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The guys are back at it this week, with round two of the deep dive into textbooks for Attic Greek. After some opening shenanigans, a corrigendum, a choice quote from Basil of Caesarea, and a trip to Burrito Chime®, Jeff and Dave review some salient differences between Attic and Koine dialects, courtesy of P.V. Nunn (1920). Six, six total! Then it's off to textbooks by Hansen and Quinn and Keller and Russell. How robust should one's grammar-translation method be? How many omega-verbs do you need, and what's the right quotient of exercise sentences in a given chapter? All this and more is in store, so don't miss the usual depth and dippy drollery!

Attic? Koine? Both? Groten and Finn? Anne Groton's Alpha to Omega? Donald Mastronarde? Hansen and Quinn? This week Jeff and Dave start a short series on how to choose a Greek textbook. After a few moments strolling down memory lane (γε!), the guys get down to business with a brief discussion of the merits of studying the Attic vs. Koine dialects (more on that in the next episode). Then they walk through the first two books in the series, pointing out the standard structure for an introductory textbook and some strategies for getting your feet wet in the language. Episdoe 185 will go deeper into the standard college texts, before pivoting (everything's basketball) to the Koine books by Mounce, Wallace, and co. Oh, and MossMethod may come up at some point! If you've studied Greek, are teaching Greek, or are thinking about taking it up, then this episode could be a great entry point for your interests!

This week we head back to Carl Richard's masterpiece from 2009, and the guys are taking a careful look at Chapter IV: Nationalism. We start out with a nice definition and perspective from one of Dave's long list of overrated authors (does he like anybody?): C.S. Lewis. Clive explains to us from The Four Loves that every country has a dreary past of some shameful and shabby doings, but it's natural and good to love her nonetheless, within reason. Then we dive into the antebellum adulation of one George Washington. Is he Demosthenes, Cicero, Hannibal, Severus, Cincinnatus, Camillus? Or is he actually all of them rolled into one? Tune in for insights from Edward Everett, Calhoun, Walt Whitman, Danile Webster, Frederick Porcher, and more, on everything from neoclassical revival to the vast American superiority over those doddering ancients. Along the way, you'll enjoy reminiscences of the celery fields of Jenison and rural Ionia County, Michigan, as well as one of Jeff's all-time best puns. And in the end, Marathon is Always Great Again.

So, is there a Homeric influence on the New Testament? Or, more specifically (per MacDonald), did Luke deliberately pattern and structure elements in Acts of the Apostles on episodes from Iliad 2? In this episode, the guys consider the case that MacDonald lays out, namely that Luke pairs the visions of Cornelius and Peter (in Acts 10 and 11) in a way that tags the Zeus-sent dream to Agamemnon and Odysseus' recollection of the portent of the serpent and the sparrow. Does it hold up? Would a first century audience have recognized it as such? Are the linguistic parallels convincing? And perhaps the biggest question of all: why tag Homer in the first place?

In 2003, Dennis R. MacDonald published an important monograph with Yale University Press entitled: Does the New Testament Imitate Homer? Four Cases from the Acts of the Apostles. In the provocative opening salvo, MacDonald explains: ‘"'Who would claim that the writing of prose is not reliant on the Homeric poems?' This rhetorical question by a teacher of rhetoric requires a negative answer: no ancient intellectual would have doubted that the Iliad and the Odyssey informed the composition of prose, including potentially the stories of the New Testament." Come along this week as Jeff and Dave tackle the big questions about the form-criticism take on the New Testament vs. imitation (μίμησις). MacDonald lays out his six criteria, and we get into the nit and grit of some first century compositional realities. Is MacDonald's thesis ultimately persuaive? Did Luke in Acts imitate Vergil, Homer, neither, or something else altogether? It's a complicated topic, for sure, with a long and thus far intractable history.

Neoteric poetry is on the menus this week, as the guys take a close look at what Dave considers the most beautiful and moving poem from antiquity: Catullus 101. This is the famous threnody that Gaius Valerius Catullus (87-55 B.C.) addressed to his brother's ashes in Bithynia around 57 BC. The haunting lines of elegiac couplet compress a world of sorrow and sadness into 10 short verses. Along the way, Jeff explains how Catullus might have been a beat poet, and there's much discussion of what was driving the art and culture of the time. The one gentleman of Verona, the place that was a kind of Roman Hocking Hills, made his way to the capital city at the age of 22 and quickly put his name in lights with his brilliant and racy poetry addressed to cow-eyed Lesbia. Listeners will want to tune in for the new music, a brand-new sponsor (dellachelpka.art), and the usual, though moderated - given the weighty subject matter - hijinks. Check out A.S. Kline's translation of the poem here: https://www.poetryintranslation.com/PITBR/Latin/Catullus.php#anchor_Toc531846828

It's time to blind you with some science! Jeff and Dave follow Marrou's masterful tome (Part II, Chapter VIII) back through the centuries to see what place the other, non-literary side of the education coin held in antiquity. In contrast to present-day obsessions with STEM, we learn that while branches of mathematics were held up as an ideal, they never really took pride of place in the general education of Greeks and Romans. Instead, despite Plato's and Isocrates' best efforts, much like today math was left to the experts. In fact, when the ancients did get their math, geometry, music, and astronomy on, they preferred them with a heaping dose of myth, magic, and mysticism (we're looking at you, Pythagoras). Come along for maybe the worst ever opening gag, some Mike Rowe inspired musings, a quick look at the Greek terror of infinity, and much more. Plus: the long-awaited drawing for the Ratio 4. Who will win?

The guys are excited this week to welcome into the studio (via Zoom) their colleague from Hope College Dr. Bram ten Berge. After coming close to a career in professional tennis (more on that in the show), Bram finished his B.A. in Classics at U. Miss and matriculated through U. Mich, graduating with the PhD in 2016. In this episode, we get to ask Bram, a topshelf scholar of Roman history and a specialist in Tacitus (c. 55-120 A.D.), all manner of recondite questions. Bram helps us sort through Tacitus' political consistency, his historiographical program, relevance to contemporary politics, and questions of Latin style. Based on his outstanding 2023 book Writing Imperial History: Tacitus from Agricola to Annales, Bram's acute expertise and conversational style are sure to appeal to aficionados of Roman history. If you like Tacitus and the writing of res gestae, this episode is game : set : match!

Jeff and Dave wrap up their look at Sophocles' Trachiniae this week, guided along by the inisghts of scholars such as Edwin Carawan and Charles Segal, whom you may remember from such things as what they wrote! Here's the crux of the matter: is the heroine Deianeira just a dopey, duped wallflower, innocently distributing hydra-soaked cardigans to kith and kin? The wronged party, seeking to salvage the remnants of a once healthy marriage? Or, is she actually a calculating, Machiavellian murderess, plotting all along against her rival Iole, more in the mold of Euripides' Medea or Phaedra? And what do we think about Heracles? Villain, hero, both? Along the way, have your imagination stimulated by frequent comparisons to the dynamics of Odysseus' family, the occasional snackish twang, and some free onomastic pointers. And, it's not too late to use coupon code PATRICKS17 or 10plus on the latinperdiem.com site to start your Greek or Latin journey.

This week the guys begin their look at Sophocles' "Women of Trachis", the one play among the surviving Sophoclean tragedies that scholars have scratched their heads over. The general feeling is that it's underdeveloped, lacking central themes, and  just a mish-mash of other traditions. But is this true? Dave and Jeff explore the play's Herculean mythic background, and some Sophoclean tweaks to see if there might just be some hidden gems here. Note the empathy and heartache of Deianira, balanced by the coldness and suspicion of Heracles. Could it be that the academics were wrong about this one? Shocking, we know. 

This week Jeff and Dave are back in the studio to discuss the leading light of early fourth-century Christian rhetoric. 'No whey', you say? Yes, it's true. The guys again take a look at the North African rhetorical tradition that produced such greats of Christian apologetics as Minucius Felix, Tertullian, Cyprian of Carthage, and Arnobius of Sicca. What should we make of Lactantius' accomplishment? Is he really the crème de la crème, or merely pushed forward by inevitable social forces, not an instance of the 'great man theory'? And what about his rhetorical feats in the grisly Deaths of the Persecutors, Divine Institutes, God's Workmanship, and more? Was Pico della Mirandola correct that Lactantius "equalled Cicero, or maybe even surpassed him in eloquence"? Come along for the ride as we wrap up this two-parter on the man who was well suited to his times, interacting with the cabbage-loving Diocletian, a host of enemies of the Christian faith, and even the big guy, Constantine. And bee sure to check out Dave's free Latin lessons here: Deaths of the Persecturors Epitome of the Divine Institutes  

This week the guys teeter on the edge of Late Antiquity, caught in that liminal space between pagan and Christian, west and east, Latin and Greek. And what better guide through it than Lucius Caecilius Firmianus Lactantius (the "Milkman"), the early Christian apologist who converted to the faith during Diocletian's persecution and ended up working for Constantine? Dave and Jeff spend the hour trying to assemble the threadbare, but fascinating biography of the man, all the while investigating such questions as: where does Lactantius stand in the larger picture of apologetics? What was his career like before his conversion? What does it mean to call him the "Christian Cicero"? And what's with all these North Africans punching above their weight? Is there something in that Carthaginian coffee? Lastly, speaking of coffee, if you're out driving and the brew in your tumbler is less than ideal, just try to keep 'er steady, ok? (Don't ask, just tune in).

This week Jeff and Dave leave aside that French guy (H.I. Marsomething) and go back to their OTHER book series, Carl Richard. What was happening in the early 19th century after the American founding? Pastoralism! Oh, the idyllic life of lounging with livestock, as the kine low loudly through the meadows. But there is also the counterattack of utilitarianism. After all, the business of America is business. So which view is going to dominate American culture? Will it be the Jeffersonian gentleman farmer, with his 40 acres, picturesque outhouses and a landscape larded with Roman villas (paging Wendell Berry)? Or will it be a Hamiltonian mercantile paradise, with everyone trading with their neighbor? And where do the Classics fit in all this? Come along as we take a Thoreau look at this question, complete with the Yale Report of Jeremiah Day, the full-scale assult on Classical languages, the counter-attack, and the daring denouement. You won't wanna miss this one. Listen up, or go barbarian.

On November 8th, 1977 archaeologist Manolis Andronikos made public one of the greatest finds of all time—the royal Macedonian tombs at Aigai (modern day Vergina), including what is likely the tomb of Philipp II himself. This week, the guys walk through this remarkable story and frame it within the chaotic historical context of the decline of Athens and the rise of Macedon in the 4th century BC. Using David Grant's recent book, Unearthing the Family of Alexander the Great (Pen and Sword Military, 2019), Dave and Jeff address a number of the ongoing controversies surrounding the finds—why did these tombs survive while most others have been found looted? Is it really Philipp II in the larnax? If so, who is the mysterious “Scythian Queen” in the antechamber? Along the way, sample a bit of Demosthenes' Second Philippic, prepare yourself for Smarch weather, and soak up the inanities.  

This week Dave and Jeff are back to Ovid for a couple more vignettes! The guys start with the bizarre tale of Erysichthon (the "Earth-Ripper") who lives up to his name by lumberjacking a sacred grove of Ceres. But why? Is this a prescient Lorax pre-boot? A morality play about late-stage capitalism? Or ust a guy who desperately wanted that Rumpus Room house addition? We're starving for answers. Then it's on to Cycnus ("Swany") and his fateful encounter with Achilles on the plains of Troy. Has Achilles met his match with someone as nearly "invincible" as he is, and who talks as much smack? How does this "win" of Achilles set the stage for his own demise? Of the three Cynci known in myth, why is this li'l cygnet the only who gets the full-fledged Metamorphoses treatment? Also, don't miss guest spots by Swan Carlos, Mr. T, and Stuart Little. I pity the fool who doesn't tune in!  

This week Jeff and Dave are back to H. I. Marrou and all things ancient education. At first, Jeff has some trouble seeing how Marrou isn't simply repeating himself, but after a good buddy talk, this chapter reveals some fascinating insights.  We see how formal education during the Hellenistic era (circa 336-31 B.C.) helped shape our definition of the "canon" of ancient works--a focus on foundational works, the primacy of Homer, and core representatives of poetry, drama, and rhetoric. You'll want to engage with Marrou's definition of Classical culture and the scale of values, and also have your fingers ready to count down the top 10 ancient poets, top 10 philosophers, top 10 artists, top 10 historians, etc. Come on, who doesn't love lists? Then cue the Stoic philosophers like Chrysippus to shake things up: what's more important, they ask, textual criticism, or teasing out deep and allegorical meanings even (or especially) when the text gets weird? And if the moral is not there, well then, you (or Bob Dylan) will just have to invent it yourself. Don't miss this one, and the secret Ratio 4 giveaway code word.

This week Jeff and Dave pick up an article (linked below) from Ernest Blum in the American Scholar (September 2008) on the once hugely popular (and now wholly neglected) interlinear method of language learning. 19th century businessman and aspiring pedagogue James Hamilton (1769–1831) found the Greek and Latin instruction of his time hopelessly slow and backward: "How . . . is it possible that a child should be chained to the oar, seven, eight, or ten of the best years of his life, to get a language or two, which, I think, might be had at a great deal cheaper rate of pains and time, and be learned almost in playing?" In response, Jimbo developed a system of fitting the translation, in this case English, directly below the line, which privileged reading above all other forms of study as the sole and proper method of learning. Jim made some extravagant claims about the Hamiltonian method's prospects for success: "Reading is the only real, the only effectual source of instruction. It is the pure spring of nine-tenths of our intellectual enjoyments. . . . Neither should it be sacrificed to grammar or composition, nor to getting by heart any thing whatever, because these are utterly unobtainable before we have read a great deal.” But is he right? What about spoken language acquisition? What about images? Games? And what about Zipf's law? The guys examine the article and Blum's claims in light of their own language acquisition and instruction, comparing the Hamiltonian system to Loebs, the finer elements of Greek and Latin syntax, and what'er else strikes their fancy. Be sure to tune in for this and more, especially the secret code word to win a premium Ratio 4 coffee maker. https://theamericanscholar.org/the-new-old-way-of-learning-languages/

In this second installment in a 2-part series, Dave and Jeff tackle some additional works that you avid nauserinos may want to add to your own library and reading list. Dave starts things off with some philosophical and theological musings, courtesy of The Justice of Zeus by Sir Hugh-Lloyd Jones (U. of California Press 1971). Then Jeff, in a nearly-Dionysiac frenzy, directs us toward Eric Robertson Dodds' The Greeks and the Irrational (UCP 1951). So, with typical, academic p̷a̷n̷c̷a̷k̷e̷ panache and restraint, the guys spend nearly 48 minutes on the first two titles. As the sand slowly slides through the hourglass, at last they turn to Dave's final choice, a real gem by A. Duane Litfin: St. Paul's Theology of Proclamation: 1 Corinthians 1-4 and Greco-Roman Rhetoric (CUP 1994). Some autobiography ensues as they grapple with the differences between Classical oratory and Christian preaching. Hey, it can't all be Ovid! Hac acroase fruamini, O amici!  

After a short hiatus the guys are back, dipping into their personal libraries to present some of the secondary literature that has been influential in shaping their thinking as Classicists. As Jeff and Dave get a little wonky, longtime listeners may not be all that surprised at some of the choices here—Jeff's picks traffic in mystery cults and mythic narratives, while Dave trots out works on Cicero, and political shifts in Roman history. Longtime listeners will also likely not be surprised that Jeff and Dave only get about halfway through their choices (so look for a part two!) Still, the guys manage to cover Walter Burkert's Ancient Mystery Cults, Manfred Fuhrmann's Cicero and the Roman Republic, Joseph Campbell's Hero with 1,000 Faces, Ronald Syme's The Roman Revolution, and Mary Lefkowitz' Black Athena: Revisited. Tune in for a lively discussion that includes not just the books themselves, but also defining secondary sources, and some of the odd ways in which studying the Classics can become politically charged.

Down in the Vomitorium it's back to Marrou and his section on Primary School and Education in antiquity. Jeff starts the episode a little skeptical thinking this might be a bit of a snoozer, but he quickly comes around, especially once Dave starts dropping ancient vowel exercises like an old school hip-hop beat. Tune in as we sift through ancient debates which read very modernly—when should kids start school? How much should teachers get paid? How many vacation days can we squeeze into the calendar? How much does elementary school truly matter? And, what core subjects should be taught?  

This week the guys resume a conversation begun in Episode 13! What's it like to be a book club of one, and what are the social dynamics when two book clubs of one meet temporarily to discuss, uh, books? Well, it's time to gorge and gourmandize on the written page, and it's not just Classics this time around. Jeff starts us off with some selections from Erik Larson, Jeffrey Toobin, Paul Jeffers, and Noel Monk, before finishing off with a bit of David Grant (Alexander's tomb) and Greg King (Leopold and Loeb). It's a main course of true crime, freemasonry, Alexander the Great, and EVH, as the book club dances the night away. Then it's Dave's turn, with volumes from Ed Feser (Five Proofs of the Existence of God), William Kauffman (American Brutus), Gaven Kerr (more Aquinas), and Richard Newman (Alma Rose). The tastes may not be similar, and dentistry gets more than a little airtime, but what's not to love about a garden, a library, a good cup of brew, and a wide-ranging discussion? Join our book club for an hour or so, or start one of your own.

It's back to Ovid this week in the bunker for two more ingenious tales of transformation. We start in Book I by chewing our cud and patting our 8 tummies. It's the tragic bovine metamorphosis of Io, and the mournful response of her father, Inachus. Here we see the first internal writer and reader within the poem, as daughter reveals herself to dad by hoof-scratching her name in the dirt. Is this also the origin of Roman mourning rites? Then it's a sylvan sashay back to the woods, where Jupiter (once again) is up to no good and Juno is (once again) directing her vengeance elsewhere, turning Callisto, her husband's unwilling (once again) paramour, into a bear. What kind of gods are these?  What place for mortals in all this? Is the transformation into a part of nature a blessing or a curse? And finally, has anyone located the edible, pulverized, skeletal muscle portion of the bullock?

This week Jeff and Dave resume their longstanding friendship with Henri-Irénée Marrou, "French historian" and "Christian humanist in outlook", for Part the 13th. It's Chapter IV -- "Artistic Education" -- of Part II -- Education in the Hellenistic Era --, which gets a thorough look this time. Drawing, instrumental music (both lyre and aulos), choral and accompanied song, dancing, and the decline of music and culture in education, everything's on the docket. Aristotle casts his long shadow over the age, and people's appreciation of music. Is it just for the professionals? Or, will there remain a place for amateurs to practice and appreciate the arts. It's a wide-ranging conversation, complete with awkward flashbacks to high school dances and talent shows. And, stick around for a little original music from Michael Kornelis. This one's got it all!

This week it's back to Richards' fascinating book, and finishing up our look at how the Classics were used as a lens for interpreting the American democratic experiment and living in a democratic society. Here the guys delve into how Rome functioned as a “law and order” counterbalance to the looser, “liberty” ideals of Athens, and how particular Roman men served as models for framing and lauding certain founding fathers (such as Cincinnatus for Washington). Cornelia also appears as a stand-in for the ideal American woman—Louisa McCord and Sarah Grimke saw her motherhood and intelligence as models worth imitating. But, look out—here comes Caesar (boo! hiss!) as the villain! Why did some Americans think Andrew Jackson's “Julius” needed a “Brutus”?    

This week, Jeff and Dave welcome into the studio seasoned translator Diane Arnson Svarlien, to talk about her new addition of three plays by the brilliant, scatological, Athenian comedian Aristophanes. Timed to the release of Hackett's new, attractive volume, Diane shares with us her own background in the Classics, how she became interested in Greek comedy, what it takes to translate iambic trimeters, pentameters, and more. Drawing from perhaps Aristophanes' three most popular send ups – Lysistrata, Ladies of Thesmophoria, and Addled Amphibians – the conversation ranges (and rages) widely. If you have been thinking about reading Aristophanes, dabbling in politics, the war between the sexes, and bathroom humor, or if you just want to know what it takes to make a great translation, don't miss this conversation with our friend Diane. Phlattothrattophlattothrat! Note: the muse in this episode is pretty spotless, but if you sign up for the Aristophanes giveaway, you should have some sense of what you're getting in advance. For those with young children, please use discretion.

This week Jeff and Dave are back to antebellum America with a long and luxurious look at Chapter 2 from Carl Richard's 2009 masterpiece, The Golden Age of the Classics in America. This chapter, "Democracy", explains how the post-revolutionary generation navigated their loyalties to Cicero vs. Demosthenes, and Athens vs. Rome. Along the way, we talk through the woodsy triumvirate of Sam Houston, Andrew Jackson, and Abraham Lincoln, whether a Yankee could have any true knowledge of the Classics, what's up with Jackson's hair, and how to impress Cherokee girls (hint: it requires memorizing 500 pages of Pope's Iliad). It's a rough, wild world, where J. Q. Adams tries both to support Greek independence from the Turks, and uphold the Monroe Doctrine, and where -- within 20 days of the Alamo -- Colonel Travis was dubbed the American Leonidas. Nervous about listening? Remember the words of that $20 celebrity Pres. Jackson: "One man with courage makes a majority".

This week the guys take ya'll on a virtual tour of the ancient cult site Epidauros. As part of Jeff's continuing project of 3D reconstructions on archaeological sites, he helms us through a look at the origins of the famous ancient healer (or quack?), the abaton where invalids sought to meet the demigod in their dreams or be introduced to one of his snakey representatives, the theater, the stadium, the tholos site where Aesclepius' remains were said to be buried, and more. Is there a good explanation for Asclepius' apparent ability to heal? Was it all a fraud, power of suggestion, secret technology, or really supernatural? Be sure not to miss this geographical meander through one of the most beautiful - and off the beaten path - sites of Classical and Hellenistic Greece. Also, don't miss the 4th century A.D. church at the site's northwest corner, be sure to check out the site map here (link), and what's Dave's deal with mints?

This week the guys interview (via Zoom from Chicago) wandering troubadour Joe Goodkin, a singer/songwriter/guitarist who has traveled the world performing his intimate interpretations of Homer's Odyssey and Iliad. This lively conversation includes Joe's background as a Classics major at the University of Wisconsin, his dues-paying in rock bands in the Chicago area, and most of all his deep desire to meld his loves of ancient epic poetry and making music. Joe also performs a couple of his songs live on air which offer a taste of how effectively he zeroes in on Homer's deep and timeless understanding of human experience. And if all that doesn't grab you, it's worth it to hear Dave get irritated when grunge gets mentioned. You can find Joe's work here: https://www.thebluesofachilles.com https://www.joesodyssey.com https://www.joegoodkin.com  

Jeff and Dave are at it again, with a veritable pent, hept, dec -athlon of "Physical Education" bits and blocks, and a major excursus on the centrality of sport to Greek educational culture. Sure, you think you like sports, with your Big 10, your PAC 12, your SEC, your NFL, NBA, MLB, NHL, WNBA, MLS, FIFA, FIDE, etc. But trust us, your devotion to sport -- no matter how strong and thriving, no matter how many bags of chips, plates of nachos, and crates of confetti you have on hand for your season -- is nothing compared to the Hellenistic Greeks. In this XIIth installment of Marrou's classic work, the guys take you through all the major events: running (don't miss the donut table), long jump, discus, javelin, wrestling, boxing, and pancratium (don't ask). You won't want to miss the opening gag, or Jeff shouting slogans to wrestling hopefuls near the end (and Racko, so much Racko).

This week sees the return of active Latin guru Patrick Owens, live via Zoom to discuss his 2016 article “Barbarisms at the Gate”. In this piece Patrick delves into the current state of the use of spoken Latin in language acquisition and in particular some of the pitfalls and challenges that remain. The guys get into the particulars of the history of Latin and how one goes about translating English terms, like "vacuum cleaner", into spoken Latin accurately. How is that Latin is “immutable”? How do you go about coining Neo-Latin terms and still remain true to the essence of the language? As teachers, how do we make sure that the “spoken” element is always bringing us “back to the text”? Tune in also to hear Patrick's own fascinating backstory, in particular his study with Reginald Foster at the Vatican and his life in an Italian spoken Latin community.  

This week Jeff and Dave continue their look at Carl Richard's 2009 masterpiece on Classics in America. As Richard surveys the antebellum landscape, there are some surprises in store. For example, devotion to the Classics, to the expanding literary reign of 'Tully' was not limited to the eastern elite along the seaboard. Even in the hinterlands, rustic frontier types were clutching copies of Cicero's Catilinarians. And, with the war for Greek independence raging abroad, Lord Byron and others fostered a wave of Hellenism that swept through American schools. No longer did the Romans dominate. Now, Aeschylus, Euripides, Xenophon, and a host of others--both in the original and in translation--rode a wave of new found popularity. Perhaps most surprisingly, the President of Yale Jeremiah Day briefly considered appointing a Prof. of Whittling. So grab your penknife, your whittlin' gloves, a jug of Mountain Dew, and tune in!

This week we salute American independence with a dive into Carl Richards' fascinating tome The Golden Age of  the Classics in America (2009). The guys begin with a look at the state of Classical education during the antebellum era, frontloading the discussion with questions as to why Classical education was the default at this time: did Americans believe such an approach produced virtuous and clear-thinking citizens? Was it that Greece and Rome provided a gold standard after which America should model itself? Or was it just trying to stay hip because it was what all those German cool kids were already doing? From there the episode turns to Classical curricula in 19th century schools and who exactly could access this stuff (hint: it wasn't just for those uppity wig-wearers).

This week the guys wrap up the second portion of Marrou's chapter on the ancient ephebia, that system of education for youth ages 14-21 that was popularized by the city of Athens and which spread to more than 100 cities around the Mediterranean during the Hellenistic era. What were the features of this system, and how did they vary from polis to polis? What happened when the generosity of local benefactors, euergetes, couldn't be tapped anymore for resources? How did public funding come into play? What about all of those multiplied titles, the various underlings who supervised the various underlings who supervised the athletes? If you are interested in golf, polo, tennis, and the aristocracy, this is one you won't want to miss.

This week the guys are back into Marrou and off into the history of education during the Hellenistic Era. Contrary to what one might think, following the transformation of the world after the conquests of Alexander, the world of education did not become centralized and governed from on high by the potentates of succeeding dynasties. In fact there was eclectic mix (as does befit this time period) of things happening--certainly a recognition that the State did have an interest in fostering education (especially of the elites) but largely in a hands-off manner that left decisions to local municipalities; a shift away from private to public education but also with a "throw-back" emphasis on a sporting/military ideal at the same time; Athens now a vassal state of the Macedonians but still held up as the model of what higher education should be. Tune in, and remember, if you're still short a few credits it's never too late to go back and finish up your ephebia. Wait, actually it might be.

Dave and Jeff are off to Abonoteichus this week to wrap up Lucian of Samosata's crazy account of Alexander the False Prophet. If you like crazy, you're going to love this episode. It has a bit of everything: Big Sid the Standale Terror, Jeff's dad sporting with fugitive serpents, the origin of mustard, food trucks, snakes in a can, and so much more. And, oh yeah, Classics. As the Second Sophisitic (c. 60-230 A.D.) got into full swing, Lucian emerged as the most successful satirist, detaling the foibles of the rich, the famous, and the divine. In this conclusion to our treatment of his lesser-known story, we find out what happened when Alexander of the flowing locks teamed up with shyster apprentice Cocconas. Will they go a-bilking in Paphlygonia -- with their fake eggs, rumors of Asclepius, and puppet snakes -- or are the "fatheads" more numerous in Chalcedon? Tune in to find out.

This week Jeff and Dave take a break from the Marrou series to talk about 2nd century A.D. satirist Lucian of Samosata. Born in the further reaches of Asia Minor, Lucian made a name for himself as a Greek stylist by making fun of the rich and powerful, including the gods. Many claim him as the inventor of the science fiction genre because of his most famous work, A True Story. This fantastic voyage seems to anticipate Jules Verne and H.G. Wells by almost 2000 years! But the subject of this episode is Lucian's take on the fraudulent shyster Alexander, a good looking chap (with great hair) who worships a snake god leads and many astray. But what exactly is Lucian doing? Is this all a game to entertain the elite, or is he trying to educate the gullible away from belief in the supernatural and paranormal? And, what do Erasmus and Thomas more have to do with it all? Be sure to tune in.

This week Jeff and Dave continue on with Marrou's clues, finishing up the last portion of Chapter VII, Part I, Isocrates, and taking on all of Chapter I, Part II, "The Civilization of the Paideia". For Isocrates, the comparison to Plato continues, particularly with respect to the question of the teaching and inculcation of virtue. Is it possible, and if so, how is it done? Don't miss Marrou's thought-provoking concluding remarks on the relationship between P and I, how they "enriched the classical tradition without disturbing its unity." In the next portion, the guys get into the question of paideia, an old and storied concept. Specifically, how does culture, according to Marrou, become religion, and how is this a part of Alexander's enduring influence? Finally, the theme of the whole second portion of the episode focuses on how classical education took on its finalized, concrete form during the Hellenistic era (323-31 B.C.), and "thereafter it underwent no substantial change".

Isocrates, You socrates, Hesocrates? This week Jeff and Dave are back at it with the work of H. I. Marrou and education in antiquity. Here they tackle the last bit of Part I of the book, Chapter VII, and the groundbreaking "humanist" Isocrates. Born in 436, he spent the first part of his career as a "hired gun" speech-writer, before developing an influential -- and profitable -- school for rhetoric. But if you have never heard of this guy, no wonder. He has spent the last two millennia trying to creep out from beneath Plato's massive shadow. So just what is the purpose of rhetoric and dialectic? Is it to get to the truth, à la Plato, or should we veer more toward Isocrates' perspective, that rhetoric, honed by literary study, develops us into persons who are moral and useful to the state? Isocrates certainly had the time to develop his ideas, as he championed nascent Panhellenism to the rip old age of 98! Along the way, the hits keep coming, and the fallout from Jeff's opening pun is massive. Finally, don't miss the tease about how Plato spent his last days, link.

This week Jeff and Dave welcome into the studio Classicist extraordinaire and all around good guy Dr. Kirk Summers. We should probably also mention that Kirk is a Prof. of Classics at the University of Alabama in Birmingham, former co-owner of the Red Cat Coffee Houses in the same city, and one of the world's leading experts in Theodore Beza. And he still finds time to root for the Alabama Crimson Tide. Kirk drops by to talk about one of his earliest works on Beza, A View from the Palatine. First published in 1548 before his conversion to the Protestant faith, Beza issued this collection of poems, Sylvae, much in the style of Catullus, Martial, and other Roman love poets. This got him into a little bit of hot water, as Kirk explains. Along the way, we hear how Beza's early training in the humanities shaped him for a career in theology and polemics, about his wife Claudine Desnosse (that she was not Candida of his poetry), and some of bases views on the relationship between Christianity and the ancient Greeks and Romans. All this and more can be yours, if you can survive Dave's first, atrocious pun.

Herein Dave and Jeff resume their tour through Henri-Irénée Marrou's ground-breadking volume on ancient education. We wrap up Chapter VI, "The Masters of the Classical Tradition", and see what Plato thought about mathematics, elementary education, gymnastics, plastic-segmented jumpropes, playing the triangle and blocks in Kindergarten, and more. How was Plato's Academy organized? Was it a rigorous shool for political science, a training ground for the abstruse, esoteric, and recondite? Or did it mostly exist in Plato's mind, a thought experiment akin to not ever seeing an actual circle? We tackle these and other questions, including "What are the olfactory nuances of the Athens Metro ride to Piraeus on a sunny January day?" This is something we wall want to know, so tune in!

This week tune in as the guys interview one of the greatest and most prolific translators of this and the previous century—Dr. Stanley Lombardo. In this conversation we hear about Stanley's early education where he was, yes, drawn to Greek and Latin but especially the rhythms and performance of poetry. The idea that these ancient works were meant to be performed and heard (not read silently) has always been at the center of his attempts to make these texts sing and become something new. So how does he do it? How does oneyou thread that needle of “staying close to the original text” while “making it new for a contemporary audience”? How do different authors lend themselves to different approaches? And how do you accompany your own poetry with a drum? 

This week the guys welcome back good friend, former colleague, and two-time Newberry Medal honoree, young-adult writer Gary Schmidt. How did Jeff and Dave manage that? Well we invited him in, and just like that he accepted our invitation. He found the studio comfortable, or at least okay for now, but the conversation was more than a little bit super. We focused on his 2023 novel The Labors of Hercules Beal, a rip-roaring adaptation of the strongman's 12 tasks, with cats, coyotes, a katabasis, a sculpted hippo, and more. Like so much of Gary's work, it is a beautiful tragicomedy, blending moments of hilarity with unvarnished reflection on suffering. So, pay attention, Carter Jones (and everyone else), and stay out of trouble. And for our younger listeners, from the first boy to the last girl, regardless of what planet you orbit, this one is a can't-miss!    

This week, Jeff and Dave resume their woolly perambulations through the wonders of Henri-Irénée Marrou's august volume on ancient education. Specifically, we look at Chapter VI, entitled "The Masters of the Classical Tradition" to get our bearings on Plato's pedagogical revolution. Along the way, we ask, and seek to answer, such questions as: What is the Socratic method? What is the relationship between σοφία and practical efficiency? How many students did Plato have that pursued, and acquired, political power (the number is high)? How was the Academy organized? And, what is the genus of pumpkin? If you're interested in education, Plato, stale Simpsons references, Celine Dion, and more, then let's just say: This podcast can touch you one time And last for a lifetime And never let go 'til we're gone...

This week the guys are joined in the Bunker (via Zoom) by scholars Anne Larsen (emerita, French, Hope College) and Stephen Maiullo (Classics, Hope College) for a fascinating discussion of the “Minerva of Utrecht” and "Tenth Muse", Anna Maria von Schurman (1607-1678). Van Schurman was not only an accomplished painter, engraver, and calligraphist, she was  also a phenomenally gifted linguist and classical scholar at a time when such was virtually unheard of among women. Tune in to hear about the challenges in translating the Latin of her books and letters into English (for the first time!), and of von Schurman's extraordinary life in which she went head-to-head with the scholars of her day, made a name for herself in the “Republic of Letters”, and laid out a groundbreaking case for the education of women.

This week Dave and Jeff welcome back into the studio (this guy's becoming a regular!) our longtime friend, mentor, former colleague, and teacher, the inestimable Ken Bratt. You may know him from such episodes as "From there We Travelled to Philippi" (46), and, "A Visit to the Roman Catacombs" (76). For this go 'round, Ken reaches back into the more distant, misty past, as he talks a little about why he chose Herodotus for his doctoral dissertation at Princeton. Using a 1968 article by J.A.S. Evans entitled, "Father of History or Father of Lies: The Reputation of Herodotus", Ken leads us through questions of Herodotus' purpose, methods, theism, charm, and style. Was the man of Halicarnassus a mere credulous stooge, or is there something deeper going on? Does he really deserve such negative comparisons to Thucydides? And what about the urination practices of Egyptians? Tune in for this and more.

In the beginning was the…conversation? In this episode Jeff and Dave tackle a fascinating 1977 article by Marjorie O'Rourke Boyle in which she reviews the history of the translation of John 1:1, particularly the Latin words used to express the Greek ὁ λόγος (logos), usually taken in English as “Word”. We learn that the earliest Latin translations used the word sermo (“conversation”), which seems to have a broader range of meanings and referents (connotation vs. denotation) than the verbum Jerome selected, and which then dominated translations for a millennium. And just when you thought it was safe to crack open the Vulgate, along comes Erasmus in 1516, who rocks the theological and philological worlds by suggesting a return to sermo. Which word better expresses the range of the Greek logos? How might our choice change the way we read John 1:1?

This week, Jeff and Dave continue on their stroll through the wonders of Marrou's volume on ancient education. Specifically, they look at Chapter V and the question of the Sophists. Men like Protagoras, Gorgias, and Prodicus were doing something new and unusual at the close of the fifth century, no doubt. And that something was -- wait for it -- selling education! Many arch-conservatives like Plato and Aristophanes did not take to it kindly. But is there any way to sort the wheat from the chaff? How can we know that what Plato tells us about the Sophists is the genuine article, and not just some envious hyperbole? Were these traveling salesman peddling snake oil, or could they really teach how to govern a state properly, the πολιτικὴ τέχνη. And if so, does that constitute ἐπιστήμη? Come along for a lively discussion, complete with the usual round of questionable puns, absurd asides, and just a dash of inanity. Before long, you'll be eating at the Midway food court just like the rest of us. Did someone say M-Burger?

This week the guys have the honor of interviewing kids/young adult author Caroline Lawrence (The Roman Mysteries and Roman Quests series, along with many others!) Ms. Lawrence is beaming in to us from London, where she writes her books overlooking the mighty Thames itself. And she's no pretender when it comes to the Classics--she comes to London by way of Classics degrees from Berkeley and Cambridge. Tune in to hear about her own fascinating journey from enthusiast to author, about how she shapes her stories from visits to museums and archaeological sites, and about how she incorporates her knowledge of Latin, Greek, and Hebrew into her fiction. We're sure you'll come away with a new love for Hero Journeys, for following one's passions, for London itself and maybe even apotropaic pillows!

This week the guys tackle Chapter IV of H.I. Marrou's monumental work, entitled "The 'Old' Athenian Education".  Relying on Aristophanes, Thucydides, Solon, and others, Marrou explains how the Athenians decided to lay down their weapons within society, and soon after education was democratized. So, “the decisive step" was taken from a warrior to a scribe culture, and education was no longer exclusively military. There was a predictable reaction from conservative elites: they sprinted to their Formula 1 roadsters, hotrodding their chariots like any Verstappen, Leclerc, or Russell. Long-haired, aristocratic young dandies stuck to their horses, even as the common peasant, baker, or cobbler sent his son off to the schools of the rhetors to learn how to make the weaker argument stronger. With this new aristocratic ideal, the development of new institutions was needed, and thus was born the epoch-making school. And despite Socrates' trenchant skepticism that arete can be taught, many claimed to teach it, and thus Sophistry surged (which takes us to Chapter V and next time). So, tune in for the Solonic Greek couplets, the KALOKAGATHIA, the mid-winter Michigan nasal congestion, the brawny chicken (Pollo Loco!), and at least one atrocious limerick.

This week the guys tackle the subject of American Urban Legends with an eye to what classical cultural and narrative archetypes tell us about why these weirdo tales can be so, well, weird. Jeff eagerly (a little too eagerly, Dave might say) drags us into those liminal spaces as we recount the odd tale of the hatchet-wielding, murderous Bunnyman of Clifton, Virginia who creepily lies in wait at the train trestle known as Bunnyman Bridge. All kinds of questions to tackle here: Why do so many urban legends take place at bridges and crossroads? Why are so many of the creatures involved “composite monsters”? Could we see kids visiting these creepy sites at midnight as a kind of “do-it-yourself” coming of age ritual? Why are most urban legends not “urban”?

This episode is part 3 of the guys' walk-through of Marrou's seminal book on education in antiquity. We pick up where the last episode left off with a wrap-up of ancient Spartan education and a look at several questions: What caused Spartan artistic culture to (fairly quickly) calcify and disappear? To what degree can we actually know what Spartan education was, given that so much of our information is filtered through the so-called “Spartan Mirage” loved by Athenian aristocrats?  Then we turn our attention to the delicate matter of the role of pederasty or “Greek Love” in ancient education, not out of any salacious or prurient motive but because—to paraphrase Xenophon—any discussion of ancient Greek education would be incomplete without tackling this subject.