Recruiting Future with Matt Alder

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about Influence and Technology. Talent Acquisition leaders are navigating a uniquely challenging period, juggling rapid advancements in AI with ongoing operational demands. The opportunity to automate routine tasks is clear, but the real challenge is determining where AI ends and human intervention begins.  With AI technologies rapidly reshaping the recruitment landscape, how can employers ensure they deploy AI strategically rather than superficially?  My guest this week is Chris Riche-Webber, VP Business Intelligence and Analytics at SmartRecruiters. Chris shares valuable insights into defining clear outcomes for AI deployment, experimenting effectively, and building genuine trust with technology vendors. In the interview, we discuss:  Current TA market realities Implementing AI to its full potential Defining the split between automation, augmentation, and obsolescence Why trust is critical for AI success Radical shifts in recruiter roles Hiring Manager self-service and why human backstops aren't the solution What will TA teams do when AI gives them increased capacity? How to build a business case What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about Foresight and Talent Some of the most significant innovations in talent management and talent acquisition originated in the tech sector. From Edison's revolutionary use of teamwork to Netflix's principle of Talent Density, cutting-edge thinking about technology has often also involved cutting-edge thinking about talent. What might the history of technology teach us about the future impact of AI on talent practices? My guest this week is Jamie Dobson, CEO of Container Solutions and author of the forthcoming book, “Visionaries, Rebels and Machines,” on the history of technology. In our conversation, Jamie identifies some of the talent innovations the tech sector has given us, shares how he applied some of this thinking to his own business, and we discuss what the future might look like In the interview, we discuss: How can historical context help us understand the future? Examples of talent innovations that have come out of the tech sector Teamwork and talent density The problem with copying the artifacts but not the thought processes behind them Lessons from elite sports How technology changes, but human nature doesn't What does the future look like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about Talent and Foresight. We're no longer dealing with a world that's simply volatile, uncertain, complex, and ambiguous - we've arguably entered something far more challenging: a reality that's brittle, anxious, nonlinear, and incomprehensible. This shift is turning traditional workforce planning completely on its head. Three-year strategic plans become meaningless when entire job categories disappear in months, when AI capabilities jump overnight, and when market conditions change faster than planning cycles can adapt. So how can employers develop effective talent strategies in highly uncertain times, and how might talent acquisition step up to take a strategic role? My guest this week is Toby Culshaw, VP of Strategy for Talent Intelligence at Lightcast. In our conversation, Toby explains how real-time talent intelligence is needed to build talent strategies that can respond to rapid change and why TA teams are uniquely positioned as invaluable sources of business intelligence. In the interview, we discuss: Moving from a VUCA world to a  BANI world Dramatic change with significant compound effects The implications for long-term planning Why it is now easier to better align TA with workforce planning Signals and real-time talent intelligence The shortening half-life of job skills The anxious workforce Surfacing insights from TA War gaming and scenario planning The importance of data What might the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Hi there, welcome to episode 711 of Recruiting Future with me, Matt Alder. Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about Talent and Technology. The recruitment technology landscape is experiencing a perfect storm. Perfect match candidates aren't completing applications due to frustrating processes. At the same time, recruiters are being overwhelmed by candidates using AI tools to generate thousands of low-quality submissions. Traditional matching algorithms provide limited transparency into the decision-making process, thereby creating legal and compliance risks. Meanwhile, cost-per-application models continue to charge for clicks rather than actual conversions, leaving employers paying for candidates who never complete the process. How can TA teams navigate this impossible environment while improving outcomes for everyone involved? My guests this week are Simon Van Hijfte, Marketing Manager at Adecco Belgium, and Ritu Mohanka, CEO at VONQ. Simon shares how Adecco is transforming their recruitment process with AI agents and the impressive results they're achieving - from improved candidate satisfaction to enhanced recruiter efficiency. We also all discuss the shift from opaque matching systems to transparent point-based scoring, how AI agents are solving the broken candidate experience, and why this people-first approach is delivering better business outcomes across the board. Why is the candidate experience broken? The impact of candidates using AI Implementing a people-first approach supported by AI Recruter Enablement vi AI Agents What do the candidates think? Moving from matching to scoring and explainable decision making Spotting transferable skills Vonq's innovative CPA+ model What results has Adecco been getting? What does the future of recruiting look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about Technology. The AI transformation in recruiting presents both unprecedented opportunities and significant threats. It's a complex situation where the same technology that promises to solve long-standing recruiting challenges is also creating new ones. The use of AI by candidates is driving up application numbers, and Gartner predicts that by 2028, one in four job applications will be fake or fraudulent. So, how can employers ensure they are reaping the benefits of using AI in the hiring process while effectively mitigating the risks?  My guest this week is Meredith Johnson, Chief Product Officer at Greenhouse. In our conversation, Meredith shares her insights on building ethical AI systems that enhance rather than replace human judgment. We discuss creating fraud detection capabilities that protect hiring quality and designing embedded AI experiences that maintain the transparency and trust required for great hiring. In the interview, we discuss: Maximizing AI benefits while reducing risks Building C-suite support for AI investments Embedding AI within existing workflows Detecting and filtering fraudulent applications Talent filtering, interview question generation, and sentiment analysis Maintaining ethics and reducing bias Building transparency into the candidate experience  What does the future of TA look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about Influence and Technology. When employers invest in talent acquisition technology, they are expecting efficiency gains and improved hiring outcomes. Yet, many organizations find themselves struggling with implementations that fail to deliver promised results and don't align with the organization's broader business objectives. So, what's the key to building transformation strategies that actually work and provide the measurable value that TA teams need? My guest this week is Sarah Smart, Co-Founder of HorizonHuman. Sarah is a former TA leader who now consults with enterprises around digital transformation. She has seen both the successes and failures of large-scale technology implementations firsthand and has practical insights to share on what makes the difference between a successful transformation and a costly disappointment. In the interview, we discuss: The most significant changes in the talent landscape The biggest challenges in TA Transformation Aligning with business objectives Outcomes, measurement, and sustainment Why having a clear vision is critical Developing the mindset for transformation Building a compelling but realistic business plan The skills TA Leaders now need What does the AI-driven future look like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing their strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about talent. Economic uncertainty and disruption has reached a whole new level in 2025, with companies freezing hiring plans and candidates hesitating to make career moves. But if talent attraction strategies fail during market volatility, how can organizations that need scarce and specialized talent survive and thrive?  So, when candidate markets are tight, how can TA teams turn uncertainty into opportunity? My guest this week is Dave Napeloni, Senior Vice President of Global Life Sciences at Korn Ferry. Dave's team is helping life sciences companies navigate talent scarcity by transforming how they engage with candidates during economic disruption. Dave has valuable insights to share, on effective talent engagement and pipeline building, that are changing how organizations compete for talent in these uncertain times. In the interview, we discuss The talent market challenges in Life Sciences Dealing with long-term uncertainty  The impact on candidate behavior How successful companies are using volatility as a competitive advantage  The critical importance of EVPs and employer branding Building candidate engagement through purpose-driven messaging Extending the role of TA beyond onboarding and into talent management How AI can radically improve the candidate experience What the future might look like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is a podcast designed to help Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about technology and foresight. AI terminology is getting confusing, which is compounded by vast amounts of marketing focusing on future promises rather than the current reality. Beyond the jargon and hype, how can AI agents be used to tackle today's recruiting problems? My guest this week is Shiran Yaroslavsky, SVP Product at SmartRecruiters. Shiran shares the importance of using customer research to build AI solutions for genuine recruiting challenges and to create the right vision for the future . In the interview, we discuss: Building products in disruptive times The difference between AI co-pilots and AI agents Using AI to Solve real TA productivity problems with AI Why customer research is critical for meaningful AI innovation The importance of building agents that collaborate across platforms How TA leaders should be evaluating AI vendors The importance of visionary innovation What is the ultimate future vision for TA? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify. A full transcript will appear here shortly.

Recruiting Future is a podcast designed to help Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology. This episode is about technology. Most HR tech projects end in disappointment because organizations focus all their energy on implementation rather than adoption. If successful transformation is dependent on what happens after the go-live date, how can employers build sustainable tech adoption that delivers lasting business value? My guest this week is Melissa Hojwall, Global HR Tech Leader at H&M. H&M has over 100,000 employees, the majority of whom are frontline workers, making internal tech adoption both challenging and high impact. In conversation, Melissa talks about the strategies around implementation, adoption, and continuous change management that help make TA and HR Tech projects successful. In the interview, we discuss: HR Digitisation at H&M How AI can solve TA & HR challenges Predictive analytics The skills needed to get the right balance between humans and AI Tech adoption and change agility Investing in what happens after the go-live date Using resistance as a superpower Finding and showcasing the benefits to the bottom line Disrupting how we interface with technology What does the future of HR Tech look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

For the last five months, the excellent people at Purple Acorn have been broadcasting the Alder Hour live on LinkedIn on Monday afternoons. It's an hour-long show where I team up with my co-hosts Rhona Pierce from Perceptible Studios and Jocelyn King from Virgil HR to talk about TA and HR headlines we've spotted during the week, analyze real-life workplace dilemmas, debate what's trending and what's ending in recruiting and interview a different guest every week. I am dropping the audio podcast version of this week's show in the Recruiting Future feed so you can take a listen to what we've been doing. I'd love to know what you think and whether I should drop the show into this feed more regularly. This week, we covered the merging of technology and HR departments, AI bias, mental health at work, why the use of Resumes is way past its sell-by date, and RecFest founder Jamie Leonard dropped in to talk about the most significant issues for TA Leaders at the moment. You can catch the Alder Hour weekly on my LinkedIn profile, via The Purple Acorn LinkedIn page, or on their YouTube channel. Let me know whether I should drop more Alder Hour episodes into this feed in the future. Enjoy the show

Recruiting Future is a podcast designed to help Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  This episode is about talent and technology. Many employers are facing an increasing problem with candidates' use of AI. Along with dramatically increasing application numbers, AI tools are, in some cases, allowing potentially unsuitable candidates to jump to the front of the queue, endangering the integrity of the recruiting process. One potential answer to this challenge is to deploy science-based psychometric testing much earlier in the process than has traditionally been the case. So, how should assessment tools and technologies evolve to combine scientific robustness, candidate engagement, and resilience against AI manipulation My guest this week is Alan Bourne, Partner at Omatti and an expert in assessment innovation. Alan highlights the issues with legacy assessment tools and sets out a blueprint for transformation that embraces AI to enhance both the candidate experience and the predictive accuracy of the tools. We also discuss the role of assessment in the move to skills organisations. In the interview, we discuss: The real impact of candidates using AI Why resumes & interviews are the least effective and least fair way of assessment Defensive proctoring versus proactive innovation Using AI to develop immersive, simulation-based assessments Getting the right balance between science and engagement The progress of skills-based hiring The danger of just replacing experience-based CVs with experience-based skills What will the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable value by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology. In this episode, we'll be focusing specifically on technology. The fundamental shift from complex software user interfaces to conversational recruiting technology is happening right now, with profound implications for how we think about the ATS.  What are the implications for both recruiters and candidates when the recruiting system becomes an invisible part of the flow of communication? My guest this week is Michal Nowak, SVP of Engineering at SmartRecruiters. In our conversation, Michal shares his insights on how conversational interfaces can transform recruiting from an admin-heavy profession to one focused on meaningful human connections and strategic thinking. In the interview, we discuss: How AI has shifted development priorities Keeping up with the technology Working with TA professionals to spot use cases that don't exist yet How AI can help recruiters build connections faster Moving to chat-based interfaces Using adaptive UI to deal with complexity Ethics, transparency, and trust What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Employee turnover continues to undermine talent acquisition efforts, with many organizations investing heavily in hiring only to watch new talent walk out the door feeling unappreciated. Even organizations with the most robust hiring processes continue to struggle with retention, costing millions in lost productivity and repeated recruitment efforts. So how can companies ensure their hard-won talent becomes long-term, engaged contributors in competitive talent landscapes? My guest this week is Brie Harvey, Head of Market Research and Community for Achievers. Achievers is helping organizations implement recognition strategies that transform employee experience and dramatically improve retention rates. Brie offers valuable perspectives on data-driven insights connecting recognition to business outcomes and how taking the right approach to appreciation can protect recruitment investments and drive performance across the entire employee lifecycle. In the interview, we discuss: • TA's lack of control over ultimate hiring outcomes • Praise versus recognition • When hygiene factors are missing, recognition will always fail to have an impact. • Low-cost, high-impact strategies • Impact of recognition on key business metrics • Building the business case for HR Tech • Identifying the performance outcomes that move technology investment from nice to have to must-have • AI-driven personalization • What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Recruiting Future is the podcast that helps Talent Acquisition teams drive measurable impact by developing strategic capability in Foresight, Influence, Talent, and Technology.  Skills shortages in emerging technologies have reached critical levels, with companies all fishing in the same tiny talent pool for experienced professionals. But if these technologies are relatively new, why assume only experienced talent can work with them?  In such fast-moving industries, how can companies develop their early career hiring strategies to ensure they get net new talent who can be productive immediately? My guest this week is Tan Moorthy, CEO of Revature. Revature is helping employers build pipelines of entry-level talent by giving high-potential hires the training and development they need to be effective from their first day. In our conversation, Tan gives us an insight into a structured approach to identifying, developing, and deploying new talent, which is transforming how organizations solve their tech talent shortages. In the interview, we discuss: Are employers looking at tech skill shortages through the wrong lens? The ABCD of in-demand skills (AI, big data, cloud, digital) AI Native entry-level talent Critical thinking and problem solving What employers get wrong about upskilling Cohorts, structure, and impact metrics Talent as a C-Suite priority The process to identify, develop, and deploy net new talent The role of technology and data Focusing humans on unique human skills What does the future look like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

The early careers landscape is experiencing unprecedented disruption. While AI technology offers opportunities to transform how organizations operate, it eliminates many administrative tasks that once formed the foundation of entry-level positions. At the same time, employers are rigidly demanding years of experience and specific technical skills for roles labeled as "entry-level," leaving Gen Z unable to even begin their careers and risking their disconnection from the workforce altogether. So, how can talent acquisition professionals transform this crisis into an opportunity? My guest this week is Caitlin McGregor, CEO and co-founder of Plum. Caitlin shows how employers can leverage Gen Z as the first AI-native workforce who don't have to unlearn old ways of working - they can start with AI-powered approaches from day one without the burden of "how things used to be done." But accessing this advantage requires shifting focus toward durable skills like innovation, adaptation, and communication, not the hard, perishable skills most employers are currently looking for In the interview, we discuss: How AI is disrupting the foundation of early careers The issues with employers demanding three years of experience for entry-level roles The outdated lens we're using to evaluate Gen Z talent Why Gen Z can approach work from an AI-first perspective without legacy thinking How durable skills like innovation and adaptation predict long-term performance The importance of assessment tools that provide value to the candidate The success Scotiabank has had by eliminating the use of resumes in campus hiring What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Celebrating 10 years of Recruiting Future! Over the last 10 years, I've interviewed hundreds of TA Leaders as well as CEOs, thought leaders, and the people building the technology that drives the industry forward. Back in 2015, we thought the pace of change was super fast and that the level of disruption was off the scale with social and mobile technologies reshaping how we communicated. In some ways, we might think it was impossible back then to imagine the world we live in now, but many of the changes we see in TA today have been in the works for a long time. The speed of change in talent acquisition is governed by the tension between organizational inertia, which slows things down, and external events like the pandemic, which can cause things to move at lightning-fast speeds. The Generative AI revolution is most definitely in the latter category. We are on the cusp of the most significant changes to TA and recruiting we have ever seen. So, as a TA Leader, how do you manage that change and make sure you and your organization are fit for the future? Over the last few months, I've been using the power of AI to unlock the Recruiting Future archive and model the mindset and behaviours of the most successful TA leaders that I've interviewed. People who have changed how their organizations think about talent, who thrive on disruption as a catalyst for positive change, and who know how to use technology to enable their vision. These leaders all have four things in common. They use foresight to understand and shape the future, they build influence with the most senior stakeholders in their organisation, they think different to create innovative talent strategies and they use the impact of new technologies to accelerate change. Foresight, Influence, Talent and Technology = Fitt This episode features clips from interviews with two TA leaders, two CHROs, a Behavioural Scientist, and a Futurist talking about these four key areas and what you and your teams can do to be fit for the future. Featuring: Laszlo Bock, former CHRO at Google, on skills Lisa Montieth, Head of TA UK at HSBC on foresight Lyndsey Taylor, Global Head of HR Transformation at Brooks Automation, on influence Rory Sutherland, Vice Chair at Ogilivy UK, on talent Laura Coccaro, Chief People Officer at iCIMS on technology Kevin Wheeler, Future Of Talent Institute, on job displacement Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

The entire recruiting landscape is undergoing a profound transformation as organizations grapple with the implications of AI and the economic disruption 2025 is bringing. Talent acquisition teams are drowning in applications while simultaneously being asked to do more with fewer resources. Candidates find themselves in increasingly dehumanized processes where ghosting is now the norm. At the same time, regulatory bodies are developing laws to ensure fairness and transparency around the use of AI in hiring. So, how can employers navigate this challenging terrain while creating fair, accessible, and effective hiring processes? My guest this week is Ruth Miller, a talent acquisition and HR consultant who works across the public and private sectors. Ruth is an advisor to the Better Hiring Institute, working with the UK Government on developing legislation around AI in recruiting. In our conversation, she shares her insights into how organizations can proactively develop strategies that balance innovation with compliance while enhancing rather than diminishing the human elements of hiring. - Different perceptions and reactions to AI among employers across sectors - The paradox of AI both introducing and potentially removing bias from hiring processes - Neurodivergent candidates and AI in job applications - Common misconceptions job seekers have about employers' AI usage. - Strategic advice for organizations implementing AI in recruitment - The future of recruitment and the evolving balance between AI and human interaction Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

AI adoption is still slow in talent acquisition. Employers are experimenting with AI for tactical tasks while missing its transformative potential. This gap between tentative experimentation and strategic implementation stems from multiple challenges, including ethical concerns, a lack of training and awareness, overblown vendor claims, and anxiety about what AI means for job security. So, how can talent leaders shift from automation anxiety to augmentation advantage, transforming their teams from tactical processors to talent advisors? My guest this week is Matt Burney, Senior Strategic Advisor at Indeed. Matt has deep expertise in recruitment technology and workforce trends and explains how AI can elevate recruiters' roles rather than diminishing or eliminating them. In the interview, we discuss: The current state of AI in recruiting Why organizations remain trapped in tactical AI implementations Understanding the root causes of automation anxiety Asking better questions, not just getting faster answers Automation versus Augmentation Why efficiency needs to be about proving value, not replacing people The role of AI in skills-based thinking Why training, education, and greater awareness are vital What does the future of work look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Understanding human behavior in recruitment is far more complex than it appears on the surface. Employers often misinterpret what truly motivates candidates to accept positions. At the same time, recruiters and hiring managers remain unaware of how their own unconscious biases influence selection decisions. Traditional approaches built on assumptions rather than evidence leave organizations vulnerable to poor hiring outcomes and missed opportunities with ideal candidates. So, how can talent acquisition professionals leverage behavioral science to gain a meaningful advantage in understanding and influencing human behavior throughout the recruitment process? My guest this week is Dominic Ridley-Moy, founder of the Behavior Change Network, a genuine expert in applying behavioral science to real-world business challenges. Dominic brings specialized insight into how our brains make decisions and explains how behavioral science offers employers substantial advantages in creating recruitment processes that align with how people actually think and behave. In the interview, we discuss: How behavioral science is being applied in business Using counterintuitive solutions to problems Metal shortcuts, unconscious bias, and social stereotypes The problems with relying on "gut feel" The recruiting cheat code of uncovering a candidate's real motivations The vital importance of the first interaction in recruiting Example of behavioural science being used effectively in recruiting The danger of simple solutions What does the future look like at the intersection of behavioural science and technology Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

The acceleration of AI in talent acquisition has sparked both excitement and concern across the industry. While many fear automation might make recruiting more mechanical and impersonal, what if the opposite were true? Traditional recruiting processes already force candidates and recruiters into transactional relationships - with endless applications, screening calls, and administrative tasks leaving little room for meaningful human connection. At the same time, increasing expectations for personalized experiences are putting pressure on talent teams who don't have enough hours in the day. So, can AI actually make hiring more human rather than less? My guest this week is Diana Tsai, Co-founder and CEO of Upwage, a company building AI interviewing agents that have been proven to reduce turnover by as much as 48%. Diana shares valuable insights from working with employers to deploy over 4,000 AI agents. We also discuss her recently published book "AI For Good", which maps out a positive vision for the future of recruiting where AI doesn't replace human connection but creates space for it to flourish.  In the interview, we discuss: Why Diana wrote a book about the positive future of AI in recruiting How the role of recruiters is evolving with AI empowerment Where will the data come from to power advanced AI talent systems? How to ensure AI reduces bias rather than amplifying it The human-AI balance and what AI will never replace Key signals that indicate the transformation of recruiting is accelerating What will recruiting look like in 2035? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcast. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

I firmly believe that AI is the most significant technological transformation of our lifetime. What will separate talent acquisition professionals who'll thrive in this new world from those who'll get left behind? The answer isn't about the technology itself, but our mindset towards it.  Viewing AI as an opportunity rather than a threat might be your most important career decision this decade, determining whether you'll lead or follow as this revolution unfolds. So, how do we transform our mindset from panic and denial to opportunity and strategy in a way that positions us to thrive alongside AI? My guest this week is Ronsley Vaz, author of the brilliant book "Amplify AI." Ronsley's background as a software engineer and subsequent career in business and podcasting means that he brings a uniquely valuable perspective to this conversation, In our discussion, we talk about the psychological barriers that can prevent us from thinking about AI strategically. We explore how TA professionals can shift their mindset from fear to opportunity and build on their existing expertise to develop practical approaches to AI adoption that emphasize courage and strategic thinking. In the interview, we discuss: Why AI is the biggest and most significant technology shift in our lifetimes Moving from panic and denial toward opportunity and strategy How AI can augment and amplify your expertise Hype versus reality and is the pace of innovation sustainable? Assistant versus Agent The biggest mistake people make using LLMs Courage, Collaboration, and Connections How to understand and keep up to date with the AI revolution What does the future hold? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Internal talent mobility remains a significant challenge for organizations despite widespread recognition of its importance. While companies understand the value of deploying existing talent to meet changing business needs, they often lack the scientific approach needed to make this work at scale. Many organizations collect a lot of data on people during their hiring process but fail to use it throughout the employee lifecycle, creating artificial barriers between departments and limiting career movement when it's needed most. So, how can organizations apply scientific principles to talent mobility to create more dynamic internal labor markets that benefit everyone? My guest this week is Lucy Beaumont, Solutions Lead, Talent Management at SHL. In our conversation, Lucy shares valuable insights from her work applying scientific assessment methodologies to internal mobility challenges.  In the interview, we discuss: How are we defining "skills-based hiring"? The difference between perishable skills, semi-durable skills, and durable skills The three main barriers preventing effective internal mobility Mapping skills across the organization in a scaleable way Scientific approaches to balancing build, buy and borrow talent strategies. Building workforce resilience through talent intelligence What does the future look like for talent mobility? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Research consistently shows that happy employees are more engaged, more productive, and stay with their companies longer. While many organizations recognize this connection, they often lack the data and insights needed to make meaningful improvements in their workplace culture. With different generations having different expectations from work and regional variations in what contributes to happiness, reliable metrics are essential for making the right decisions. So, how can employers better understand workplace happiness and use this data to attract and retain talent? My guest this week is Matt Ward, Head of Recruitment Services at WorkL. For their latest research report, WorkL surveyed 400,000 employees in 26 industries across 100 countries on the key drivers of workplace happiness. The results give us some fantastic insights that can help make talent acquisition and retention strategies significantly more effective. In the interview, we discuss: The findings from WorkL's latest workplace happiness report  The six key elements that contribute to workplace happiness Why workplace happiness is rising globally  Variations across generations and genders What is driving flight risk? The continued importance of flexibility at work How can Talent Acquisition teams leverage happiness data for competitive talent advantage? What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts Follow this podcast on Spotify

Understanding today's complex labor market requires accurate data rather than just following headlines or anecdotes. For businesses and talent professionals, having reliable insights into hiring trends, wage movements, and worker expectations is essential for making informed decisions in these uncertain times. My guest this week is Jack Kennedy, Senior Economist at Indeed; drawing from Indeed's real-time analysis of millions of job postings, CVs, and marketplace behaviors, Indeed Hiring Lab's research provides a unique window into what's happening in the job market. We're focusing on the UK market in this conversation, but Jack does provide some broader global insights and highlights the many global commonalities when it comes to worker motivations, aging populations, and the impact of AI In the interview, we discuss: The state of the UK labour market in early 2025 How geopolitical issues are impacting hiring trends globally The surprising resilience of wages despite market cooling Primary motivators for job seekers in today's market The truth about remote and hybrid work trends versus media narratives How AI is already reshaping employment and creating new opportunities A growing focus on neurodiversity in job postings Preparing for demographic challenges and an aging workforce The Labour market outlook for the next 12-18 months Follow this podcast on Spotify Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts.

The pace of AI adoption is accelerating rapidly, yet most organizations aren't integrating it effectively into talent acquisition—and they certainly aren't thinking big enough about its implications. Many companies are simply automating existing processes rather than reimagining what recruitment could become in an AI-driven world.  So, how can talent acquisition leaders think exponentially bigger about AI's potential, moving beyond incremental improvements to envision and create an entirely new paradigm for talent strategy? My guest this week is Richard Bradley, who has decades of experience in the RPO space and the wider staffing and TA ecosystem. Richard challenges us to think radically bigger about AI's impact, arguing that most organizations are severely underestimating the scale of transformation ahead. He explores how forward-thinking TA leaders must move beyond automating processes to reimagining the entire concept of recruitment. In the interview, we discuss: How does AI in 2025 compare to the Internet revolution of the late '90s Ask & Generate vs Search & Consume The risks of automating bad processes with AI rather than reimagining them How TA technology needs to evolve to be fit for purpose Durable soft skills The shift from traditional recruiters to talent strategists Why TA will evolve rather than disappear What the TA team of the future will look like  Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Round up is the monthly show on The Recruiting Future Podcast channel that highlights episodes you may have missed and gives you my take on some of the key learnings from the guests. Episodes mentioned in this Round Up: Foresight Ep 690: How Can TA Make A Measurable Impact? Influence Ep 689: How TA Can Adopt A Change Mindset Ep 687: Agile EVPs For Faster Employer Brand Impact Ep 684: Are We Now Living In A Video First World? Talent & Skills Ep 685: Rethinking Skills In An AI-Powered Workplace Ep 686: Personalizing The Employee Experience Technology Ep 688: Is AI's Impact On TA Underhyped? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts Follow this podcast on Spotify

There have never been as many forces driving change in Talent Acquisition as there are in 2025. Skills-based thinking, economic pressures, the rise of AI, and the resulting change in both C-Suite expectations and Job Seeker behavior, to name a few. Unsurprisingly, then, TA Teams are scrambling to demonstrate the impact they have on and the value they drive for their business. However, this is much easier said than done with the relentless increase in the pace of change. So, how can TA Leaders harness 2025's winds of change to demonstrate their teams' impact and the value they drive?  Where better to get expert insights, shrewd commentary, and actionable advice than Transform? For those of you who are unaware of Transform, it is one of the best industry conferences out there, and I recently got back from Transform 2025. While there, I asked a range of people what they thought TA should be doing to make a measurable impact in 2025. Here are a selection of the answers. Get ready to hear from Daniel Chait - CEO at Greenhouse; Allyn Bailey - Senior Director of Brand Experiences and Communications at SmartRecruiters; Mike Stafiej - CEO at Erin; Jocelyn King - CEO of Virgill HR; John Baldino - President at Humareso and v- CEO at Elayne. Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

The talent acquisition landscape is fundamentally transforming. AI and automation are eliminating repetitive tasks and creating space for recruiters to become true strategic partners. This shift demands that TA professionals evolve beyond transaction-focused activities to provide consultative guidance backed by data and their unique expertise.  So, how can TA leaders successfully guide their teams through this transformation from transactional order takers to valued talent advisors? My guest this week is Mike Aronson, Global Head of Talent Acquisition Operations at Johnson Controls. With over 20 years of experience in talent acquisition evolution, Mike shares practical insights on leading transformational change and proactively planning for the future. In the interview, we discuss: The shifting power dynamic in TA The current impact of AI Elevating the skills of TA Teams to be more strategic Change mindset instead of change management How do Talent Advisors add value to the business? The critical importance of skills-based hiring How can TA Leaders drive transformation? Building a hyper-personalized recruiting experience  What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

The conversation around AI in talent acquisition often focuses on incremental improvements and point solutions – better job descriptions, faster candidate matching, or automated interview scheduling. But this limited view dramatically underestimates the fundamental transformation that's already underway. While many are still debating whether AI is overhyped, there is growing evidence that it is actually significantly underhyped, with implications far beyond what most TA leaders are preparing for. So, how can TA move beyond tactical AI implementations to develop the strategic capabilities that will soon be essential? My guest this week is Jonathan Kestenbaum, Managing Director of Tech Strategy at AMS and a long-time trusted authority in work tech innovation. Jonathan cuts through the noise to explain why current industry discussions around AI are missing the bigger picture – a future where talent acquisition transforms into strategic orchestration and the way organizations attract and deploy talent is fundamentally reshaped . In the interview, we discuss:  The unprecedented speed of change compared to previous tech cycles  The current AI use cases that hint at a much more significant transformation ahead Why recruitment processes need a complete redesign, not just automation  The split between humans and machines and the impact on jobs Skills based firing Moving from talent acquisition to talent orchestration  What do TA Leaders need to do right now What does the TA Tech stack of the future look like Follow this podcast in Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

The traditional approach to developing employer value propositions can often be complex and time-consuming. While this in-depth methodology might work well for large, complex organizations, many employers invest months or even years in exhaustive research and complex frameworks only to often end up with EVPs that sound remarkably similar to their competitors. At the same time, there's growing pressure to activate employer brands quickly to address immediate talent needs, leaving organizations vulnerable to missed opportunities if they get caught in endless cycles of research and refinement. So, how can companies develop distinctive EVPs that genuinely differentiate them while moving quickly enough to address urgent talent challenges? My guest this week is Sam Monteath, founder of research and insights consultancy Reason Why, a research and insights consultancy. Sam shares valuable insights on how organizations can take a more agile approach to EVPs, avoiding the bloat and unnecessary complexity that often characterizes these projects. In the interview, we discuss: • [01:22] The key differences between employer brand, employer branding, and EVP • [04:58] Why some EVP development processes have become unnecessarily complex • [06:54] How organizations can balance speed with rigor in developing their EVPs • [09:55] What is a minimum viable EVP? • [12:28] Why so many EVPs sound similar, and how companies can genuinely differentiate themselves • [15:38] How employer branding has evolved over the past decade • [18:57] The role of AI and technology in transforming employer brand strategy • [20:52] How AI is revolutionizing qualitative data analysis for EVP insights • [22:21] The shift toward more dynamic, evolving EVPs connected to business objectives • [23:53] What does the future of employer branding look like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Technology-driven mass personalization has completely transformed how we engage with brands as consumers. However, while companies have raced to deliver tailored products and services to their customers, the employee experience has lagged behind, with most organizations still operating standardized processes that treat all employees the same. At the same time, technological, social, and generational shifts have dramatically raised expectations for personalized workplace experiences, leaving organizations vulnerable to disengagement and talent loss if they continue with outdated, uniform approaches. So, how can employers deliver the hyper-personalized employee experiences that today's workforce increasingly demands?  My Guest this week, Ayaskant Sarangi, CHRO at Mphasis Limited, an IT services company headquartered in Bangalore with operations across 50 countries and over 30,000 employees. Ayaskant shares valuable insights on how personalization can work at scale across the employee lifecycle and the vital importance of skills-based thinking in achieving this In the interview, we discuss:  • [02:03] Why personalization has become the fundamental employee expectation in today's workplace  • [04:43] How HR can shape organizational culture to support individualized employee journeys • [09:54] Leveraging technology to create hyper-personalized experiences throughout the employee lifecycle  • [13:17] Creating a horizontal tech layer that delivers consistent personalization across traditional HR silos  • [15:19] Moving from standardized role-based frameworks to personalized skills-based approaches • [20:50] What the future is going to look like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

AI is starting to drive a profound shift in the workplace. The skills we've prioritized for decades are becoming automated, with uniquely human capabilities beginning to emerge as the true differentiators. So, are your hiring and development strategies still focused on what machines can already do, or are you investing in the skills that AI can't replicate? The rapid evolution of AI is starting to reshape the skills landscape, but it is already becoming clear that many employers will struggle to adapt. While hard skills have traditionally dominated hiring and development strategies, it's becoming increasingly clear that soft skills like communication, critical thinking, empathy, and adaptability are the true differentiators in an AI-dominated workplace.  However, most organizations don't know how to properly define, measure, or develop these soft skills, leaving them vulnerable to skills shortages in the human capabilities that will drive their future success. So, how can companies identify and nurture the skills that AI can't replicate? My guest this week is Dan Haywood, Chief Customer Officer at Go1, one of the world's leading learning content aggregators. Dan shares valuable insights on how the skills landscape is evolving and why soft skills are becoming increasingly critical as AI handles more technical and repetitive tasks. In the interview, we discuss:  • [01:56] How the demand for skills is evolving in an AI world  • [03:04] Why education systems aren't adequately preparing people for modern work  • [08:11] The four key soft skills groups employers need to focus on  • [11:51] The challenges of defining, measuring, and developing soft skills and how to overcome them  • [14:30] How employers can embed soft skills into their learning culture • [14:30] The importance of executive modeling in skills development  • [16:55] Connecting soft skills development to measurable business outcomes  • [17:02] What the future skills landscape will look like as AI continues to advance Follow this episode on Apple Podcasts. Follow this episode on Spotify.

Ep 684: Are We Now Living In A Video First World? Using video is no longer optional in talent attraction. Candidates now expect to engage with short-form, authentic video content, and LinkedIn is now prioritizing vertical video to play catch up with TikTok, Facebook, and Instagram. Candidates are no longer just reading job descriptions—they're engaging with video storytelling that shapes their perception of potential employers.  Does this mean we're officially in a video-first world, and if it does, how should recruitment marketing and employer branding adapt to stay ahead? My guest this week is Rhona Pierce, founder and lead creative director of Perceptible Studios. Rhona specializes in helping talent acquisition teams use video effectively without getting lost in time-consuming production.  In our conversation, she shares why short-form, unscripted content performs so well, how companies can encourage employees to be part of the content creation process, and how good is "good enough" for video production. In the interview, we discuss: The most important video trends What type of content are employers finding most successful? Telling employee stories authentically The changing tone of business videos Production and outsourcing Nuance and expertise The role of AI What does the future look like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Round up is the monthly show on The Recruiting Future Podcast channel that highlights episodes you may have missed and gives you my take on some of the key learnings from the guests. Episodes mentioned in this Round Up: Foresight Ep 679: The Future of TA – Breaking Silos  Ep 683: The AI Revolution Is About People, Not Technology Influence Ep 680: How To Secure A Budget For TA Technology Ep 682: What Can Talent Acquisition Learn From Network Science? Talent & Skills Ep 678: Assessing Durable Skills To Future Proof Hiring Ep 674: Seeing Skills Differently: Lessons from Elite Sports Ep 675: Hiring Without Limits: Why Accessibility Matters Ep 676: Why Behavioral Science Is The Future Of Talent Acquisition Technology Ep 677: Rethinking Recruiting For AI Ep 681: Can AI Fix TA's Biggest Problem? Thanks to Plum for their support of Round Up Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts Follow this podcast on Spotify

AI isn't just a technology revolution—it's a people and talent revolution. AI could transform businesses at every level, but many HR and TA teams are still on the sidelines. The reality is that AI adoption, workforce transformation, and enterprise strategy aren't just IT or executive priorities—they're fundamentally people challenges. So, how are CPOs and CHROs currently thinking, and what should they do to shape the future? Keep listening to find out. AI is already reshaping how businesses operate, creating new opportunities and new risks. However, many HR & TA leaders are still treating AI as an operational tool rather than what it truly is: a strategic driver of workforce transformation. AI is redefining jobs, skills, and ways of working at an unprecedented pace, and organizations that fail to integrate HR into their AI strategy risk falling behind. At the same time, the talent market remains unpredictable, employee movement is slowing, and retention is more critical than ever. While some companies are racing to adapt, others are taking a wait-and-see approach. But as we've seen before, hesitation in times of change comes with consequences. HR and talent leaders have a rare opportunity to step up not just to improve hiring but also to influence enterprise-wide strategy.  My guest this week is Laura Coccaro, Chief People Officer at iCIMS. With access to one of the world's most comprehensive hiring data sets, Laura has a unique perspective on the intersection of AI, talent, and business strategy. In our conversation, we discuss why HR must take ownership of AI's impact on the workforce, how businesses can future-proof their talent strategies, and what talent leaders need to do now to stay ahead of the curve. In the interview, we discuss: How CPOs are thinking about 2025 Managing risk around talent availability, attrition, and retention Balancing technology and humans to optimize the employee and candidate experience HR's role in enterprise AI strategy Why AI equals people transformation How skills are shifting  Thinking differently about how the work gets done How much will things change in the next 18 to 24 months? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

What if everything we thought about how organizations function was wrong? For decades, businesses have been structured around hierarchies and rigid processes, assuming this was the best way to manage talent, collaboration, and leadership. But what if the real key to high performance and better talent acquisition lies not in org charts but in networks? The emerging disciple of Network Science has quietly been reshaping everything from social media to healthcare, so what happens when we apply it to how we work, lead, and hire? Organizations are complex systems, yet most companies are still managed using outdated, linear models. What if network science, a discipline that has revolutionized everything from the internet to disease control, could also transform the way we think about leadership, collaboration, and hiring So, how do networks really shape the way organizations function, and could a deeper understanding of them change how we hire, engage, and retain talent? My guest this week is Jeffrey Beeson, a leadership strategist and expert in organizational networks. Jeffrey's work focuses on how businesses can optimize collaboration, unlock hidden influencers, and rethink traditional hierarchies using the principles of network science. We discuss how understanding an organization's internal networks can improve hiring decisions, enhance onboarding, and increase retention by fostering stronger workplace connections.  In the interview, we discuss: What is network science, and how does it apply to business? How all complex systems are based on network patterns and laws Three degrees of influence How emotions travel through networks The best-connected individuals have the most influence. Identifying influencers Retention, onboarding, and talent management The application of network science to talent acquisition Applying network solutions to network problems The future of work Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

People are worried about the use of AI in recruiting. Headlines warn us that artificial intelligence might amplify biases and automate unfairness. Regulators are scrambling to introduce legislation, and talent acquisition leaders are cautious about adopting these new tools. But is this fear causing us to miss the bigger picture? When implemented intentionally and responsibly, could AI become one of the most powerful tools we've ever had for reducing systemic bias and creating fairer hiring practices? Keep listening to find out. Recruiting processes often prioritize speed and familiarity over fairness and inclusion and, in so doing, reinforce existing biases. With AI becoming increasingly integrated into hiring, many worry that this technology will amplify bias even more. However, some recently published research suggests this assumption doesn't tell the whole story. My guest this week is Torin Ellis, an experienced recruiter, DEIB strategist, and high-profile advocate for fair and inclusive hiring. Torin recently published research in collaboration with Plum, specifically highlighting how organizations that use AI in an intentional way are seeing significant improvements in diversifying their candidate slates and expanding their talent pools. He believes that AI can create a more level playing field for all candidates if it's properly deployed. Torin also emphasizes that the risks of AI-driven biases are real, and recruiters need to approach AI thoughtfully and responsibly. In the interview, we discuss: What makes recruiting systemically biased Democratizing access to opportunity How AI is diversifying slates of talent The dangers of relying on resumes Using AI intentionally to reduce bias  Upskilling, reskilling, and driving toward equal compensation What are the dangers of AI? How are employers responding to the attacks on DE&I? What does the future look like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

According to Gartner 83% of HR technology buying decisions end in regret. In a world where talent acquisition is more complex and business-critical than ever, why are so many organizations making technology investments they later wish they hadn't? The challenge isn't just about picking the right tools; it's about proving its value, winning stakeholder buy-in, and ensuring it delivers tangible business outcomes. Buying talent acquisition technology has never been more challenging. Economic uncertainty, increasing stakeholder scrutiny, and the rapid pace of innovation mean that making the right decision—and proving its value—can feel like an uphill battle. With so much information available, how do TA leaders ensure they're making the best possible choice while also securing the budget and support they need? My guest this week is Matt Sharp, SVP of Go-To-Market and General Manager of EMEA at iCIMS. Matt shares expert insights into how organizations can navigate the complexities of building a compelling business case, engage vendors more strategically, and ultimately make technology decisions they won't regret. In the interview, we discuss: The difficulties and complexity of the current tech procurement landscape The increasing number of stakeholders involved in making a decision Mitigating risk through better research Involving vendors in the process in a strategic way Understanding what different stakeholders care about Dealing with mandated software that is not fit for purpose The business case isn't the process. It is the output of the process. Value journeys and value engineering What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify

Talent acquisition is evolving faster than ever. With AI reshaping the hiring landscape, skill gaps widening across industries, and businesses facing constant disruption, the role of TA leaders is shifting significantly. It's no longer just about hiring—it's about breaking down silos, driving workforce transformation, and ensuring companies have the right talent to stay competitive. So, what does this mean for TA leaders? How can they move beyond being reactive and take on a more strategic role in shaping the future of work? And with the rise of fractional and interim TA leadership, is this the next big shift in how companies access talent expertise? My guest this week is Virginia Tirado, an experienced TA and talent leader who has seen firsthand how the function is evolving. In this episode, she shares her insights on the growing need for skills-based hiring, how TA leaders can build stronger partnerships across the business, and why embracing change is key to staying relevant in an uncertain future. In the interview, we discuss: From reactive to strategic Data-driven decision making How does TA now fit into the talent function? Breaking down silos Influencing business objectives The importance of partnering  What skillset and outlook do leaders need right now? Fractional, interim, and consulting Skills-based hiring What does the future look like for TA Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

For as long as we can all remember, hiring has been built around resumes detailing previous experience, qualifications, job titles, and technical skills. But in a world where jobs are changing faster than ever, the skills that seem essential today can quickly become obsolete tomorrow. Hard skills are perishable, but durable skills like adaptability, problem-solving, and teamwork are now the real predictors of long-term success.  So, how can companies move beyond outdated hiring practices and focus on what really matters? And what does this shift towards durable skills mean for hiring managers and job seekers looking to future-proof their careers? My guest this week is Caitlin MacGregor, CEO and co-founder of Plum. Caitlin is a massive advocate for hiring based on durable skills and the science behind this. She shares why resumes are no longer enough and why focusing on durable skills could be the key to long-term success for employers and employees. In the interview, we discuss: What are durable skills? Why do they ensure while hard skills are perishable? The science behind this Innate talent, drivers, and drainers Using accurate assessment data rather than inaccurate resume data How to elevate durable skills in the hiring process How to identify key behavioural indicators at a time when jobs are changing so quickly How should individual think about their durable skills? What does the future look like? Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify

Eleven years ago, I wrote a blog post with a title that asked the question, “Can you replace a recruiter with an algorithm?”. It provoked an instant reaction and a resounding no from everyone who read it. Fast forward to the present day, and technology has moved on exponentially, but the debate about technology replacing what have always been considered very human aspects of recruiting remains as emotionally charged as it has always been. The mental models and cultural norms around recruiting run deep, but are we having the right debate? Perhaps the real shift isn't about AI replacing recruiters. It's about how quickly recruiters can rethink their role and let go of outdated assumptions. There are several recruiting tasks that AI can already do much better than humans, and the scope is only going to increase. So what's left for recruiters? How do we redefine the role of talent acquisition in an AI-driven world? And why is mindset the most critical factor in whether AI becomes a threat or an opportunity? My guest this week is Nikos Moraitakis, CEO of Workable. In our wide-ranging conversation, we discuss the advancing cognitive ability of AI and how it is changing the way we need to think about what it means to be a recruiter. In the interview, we discuss: The increasing cognitive ability of technology Recruiting tasks that AI can already do better than humans How AI can do things that are impossible for humans Lessons from adjacent areas, such as finance The importance of recruiters focusing on high-value tasks Agentic AI and Reasoning Models What will the ATS of the future be like Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.

Talent acquisition is fundamentally about people making decisions, but how often do we stop to consider why people make the decisions they do? Whether it's a recruiter screening a resume, a hiring manager assessing a candidate or a successful applicant deciding whether to accept the role, behavioral science plays a role in every step of the process. Yet, despite its power, the psychology of hiring goes unnoticed, operating in the background rather than being used strategically. What if we could harness it to improve candidate experience, reduce bias, and make hiring more effective? My guest this week is Stephen Reilly, an experienced Global Talent Acquisition & Talent Transformation Specialist. In our conversation, he explains how behavioral science and psychology influence hiring, why recognizing these patterns is critical, and how TA leaders can apply these insights to transform their processes. In the interview, we discuss: Behavioral science and behavioral psychology Why behavioral science is so vital in TA right now Transparency in the candidate experience Small interventions that make a massive difference How recruiters are already using behavior science but might not realize it Apply science at scale to recruiting. Process optimization and evolution Advice to TA leaders on the first steps to take Follow this podcast on Apple Podcasts. Follow this podcast on Spotify.