Podcasts about certified nurse midwives

In this special episode, Kristin, host of Ask the Doulas podcast and founder of Gold Coast Doulas,  gives tips on building your supportive birth team. Krisin and Meagan talk specifics on HOW to switch providers if you're feeling the push to do so.Once we have our dream team, we're good and don't have to do any more work, right? Nope! We keep educating and preparing ourselves. That's the way to truly get the most out of that dream team. Kristin's book ‘Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby' is a one-stop shop where you can get all of the education you need for pregnancy, birth, and postpartum. Her advice is so valuable for VBAC moms and birth workers, too!Supported: Your Guide to Birth and BabyAsk the Doulas PodcastNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello. Hello. We have a special episode for you today. We have my friend, Kristin, who is actually the owner of Ask the Doulas Podcast on with us today. She is going to be talking about establishing our birth team and the importance of it. We're going to talk a little bit more about what to expect when we might not find a provider that's supportive and how to navigate it. She's going to talk more about her book and so many things. You guys, I'm really excited. Kristin is a woman who has always had a passion for supporting other women both personally and professionally. In college, Kristin served on the executive committee of her sorority and organized events on campus related to breast cancer and other women's issues. After the birth of her daughter in 2011, a new passion awoke within her. Kristin began reading and studying birth from all perspectives, philosophies, and medical approaches. She joined organizations like The Healthy Kent Breastfeeding Collation and used her event coordinating skills to build and promote the organization and create community awareness. You guys, she has done so many incredible things. Kristin's research has led her to learn more about doulas, and in 2012, she hired doulas herself for the support of her second birth. The level of compassionate care and comfort that she received from her doulas ignited a spark within her and led her down the path of becoming a doula herself. And man, can I connect to this because this is exactly what happened to me. When you guys have a doula who inspires you and touches you and motivates you the way it sounds like Kristin did and I did, even though my doula wasn't a hired doula, she was just a nurse that was a doula for the time being, it does something to you. She earned the certification and became teaching sacred pregnancy classes in 2013. But as you'll see, Kristin is a firm believer in achieving the highest level of education available when providing a service. Shortly after, she earned the following credentials-- you guys, are you ready for this? She's amazing. Oh my gosh. Certified Sacred Doula in 2014. She is a Certified Elite Labor through ProDoula. She is the Elite Postpartum and Infant Care Doula through ProDoula. She's trained in Spinning Babies, Newborn Specialist, Mother Ship, Certified Health Service Provider, certified in VBAC. She is certified in transformational birth and a birth coach for the Birth Coach Method. She is a certified pregnancy and infant loss advocate and certified gift registry expert through Be Her Village, who we will talk about. We both love them so much.She is also an author of a book which we will be sharing more about. It's called Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby. So without further ado, we are actually going to be skipping a review today and an educational topic because this is such a great episode to be educated and learn more about what Kristin is offering in her community. Okay, my love. Hello. Kristin: Hello.Meagan: We're officially getting going talking about this amazing topic. Tell me what you think about this. I think sometimes people want to assemble this dream team, but they let finances or even partners or other opinions get in the way.Kristin: Yes. Partner comfort level, especially with VBACs is key, or with clients of mine who want their dream is to have a home birth and their partner isn't supportive, so then they say, "Oh, it'll be with the next baby if everything goes well in the hospital." But then if they're a complication, they might risk out of the option of home. I think as consumers, we don't fully appreciate the ability to choose all of our birth and baby team. We can change providers. I switched providers with my first pregnancy early on because I didn't feel like that particular OB was on board with my plans to have an unmedicated hospital birth. I ended up switching to Certified Nurse Midwives and completely changed practices, completely changed hospitals in fact. It's a lot. Meagan: Yeah.Kristin: But it was worth it. And I had the time where it was easier to switch, but I've had clients switch very late in pregnancy. It was harder to find the right office to accept them, but with VBACs, it is crucial to have not just a VBAC-tolerant provider, but someone who is fully on board with your unique desires because we are all individuals.Meagan: Yes. I love that you said your unique desires. Everybody is different. I think it's really important to tell these providers what your desires are. We have a list of questions that we give people in our course and, of course, on the podcast. You can go down that list and check and be like, "Okay, this provider seems pretty supportive," but you guys have to tailor your questions and your provider. You have to tailor it to what your individual unique circumstances and desires are because everyone's is different. I would love to know. You said, I was realizing that this wasn't the right place. What kind of things were you hearing or being told or feeling when you were realizing that maybe your first provider wasn't going to be as supportive and in line with your unique decisions?Kristin: Just when I was talking about my wishes, I could tell that that particular provider liked structure and patience to get that epidural, and so once I started talking about movement, delivering in different positions and some of the things I had researched-- I hadn't yet taken a childbirth class because it was early in pregnancy, but I had done a fair bit of research before knowing what a doula was. I didn't hire doulas until my second. But I could just tell in that gut feeling which I rely on. Again, we're all unique. And yes, I do research, but I make decisions on am I comfortable spending my entire pregnancy with someone who can tolerate me and will say, "Okay"? But I could tell it didn't light her up. So once I found a practice where my nurse-midwife spent time with me, I had longer appointments, I could ask questions, and she was 100% on board with me, and then I was able to meet the other midwives and the OBs who oversaw them throughout the remainder of my pregnancy. I felt very cared for. And again, we are consumers. Whether your insurance pays for everything or you're paying for part of it, you don't get a do-over of your birth, and so it is so important, especially with that first birth to get the care team that aligns with you. That could be everything from a Webster-certified chiropractor, a physical therapist, a mental health therapist to deal with any anxieties that may come up with having a VBAC and getting a lot of fear-filled advice from friends and family members. I find that again, my clients are all unique individuals, and my students in Becoming a Mother Course, and now the readers in my book, have different goals, so I want them to choose the best plan for them. I love that you have worksheets and templates, but knowing that every situation is different whether it's a home birth, a trial of labor, or a hospital birth, that setting is different and the type of provider whether it's a nurse-midwife or an OB practice, how likely is the OB that is very VBAC-supportive going to be attending your birth? Are there 12 providers or are there only 4? And so there's just so many things to factor in when deciding what is important to you.Meagan: Yeah. That point that you just brought up, are there 12 providers? Are there only 4? Does your provider guarantee that they'll be there? These are things that I think a lot of people may not be aware of that because they found their provider. They're feeling good about their provider. They're jiving. They're having the feels, but then they may not be the ones to be there, so there are 11 other options. It feels overwhelming to be like, "Wait, wait. Do I interview all 11?" Yeah, guys. Yeah. You set up visits. It's okay. Go and see if you can meet with those. Make sure that that full team is aligned. It is a lot. That's a lot to take on, but it's okay to rotate and say, "Hey, I saw Dr. Jack last time. I'd like to see Dr. Joe this time," or whatever it may be. Really, really dive in, find out more about your provider's team if they have a team, and make sure that they align with your unique decisions and desires.Kristin: Absolutely. And that goes for doulas as well.Meagan: Oh, yeah.Kristin: So for VBAC clients, I, over the last couple of years, I do all of the matchmaking, I like to call it, between client and the birth doulas and postpartum doulas on my team, in fact. I like to find out what they're looking for. If they are attempting a VBAC, then many times, they're telling me they want a VBAC-certified doula. I have doulas that have gone through your program and are certified through you and other different VBAC trainings. They're not just wanting VBAC experience like in my early days of having Gold Coast Doulas. Now, they're wanting that certification because they know that information is being updated as things change. And there's more evidence for VBACs. They also want more than just, "Oh, I've attended four VBACs." They want the education behind it. So I think that is crucial. I'm not going to match, unless there's no one else available on my team, a client with someone who is not certified as a VBAC doula.Meagan: Yeah, I do the same thing with my group here where they're like, "This is really important to me. I want this specific type of doula." Some of my doulas have taken The VBAC Link course. And so I'm like, "Yep, this would be who I would suggest." But I also want to point out that even if you assemble your dream team doula, and they've got all the education and information on VBAC, and they're up to date, I want to just point out that it doesn't mean that you shouldn't inform yourself that you shouldn't get the information because sometimes I feel like it's easy to want to just hire your provider or your doula or your person and let them who know VBAC kind of help and guide you. But it is really important. You're doing yourself a disservice if you personally do not learn more about VBAC and your options as well and rely only on your provider or your doula.Kristin: 100%. The doula, I mean, unless you're paying her for it, will not be attending every one of your prenatal visits during pregnancy. The education that you have to make informed questions and decisions surrounding your birth plan or birth preference sheet, so those conversations are critical. The more information you have as a patient, the better. And as we all know, unless you're having a home birth, your visits are short even with a nurse-midwife. And so it's important to have those questions and to have time to really express concerns. Or if you're finding that that practice or that provider is not in line with your plans, then you can look at other options. And the hospital-- are VBACs even allowed at the hospital that you plan to deliver at? Are they going to induce? What are the Cesarean rates? And looking at all of the different options, and if you need to consider NICUs, that's always a factor in hospital selection as well.Meagan: Yeah, I'm going to kind of go back to where we were in the beginning where you realized based after your feelings and other things that this provider was not the right provider for you, you then changed to CNMs and had a much better experience. Can you discuss your process of that change? How did you change? Did you find the CNMs, have them request your information from the OB? Did you do a formal breakup with your OB? What suggestions would you give to someone who is wanting to do that? I know that sometimes, you were talking about it, in the end, it's a little harder to find, so that's why we stress so importantly to find your provider from the beginning. But we know that sometimes things change. So can you kind of talk about that process in then assembling that dream and getting the steps to get to that dream team?Kristin: Yes. So for me, I had asked friends about which providers they had worked with. So the original OB, a friend of mine, it was her doctor, and she had a great experience. I just wasn't feeling it. She had a student. We have teaching hospitals in my area, so there was a student in the room. I wasn't feeling like she was 100% on board. I could tell that she was very medically driven. I wanted essentially a home birth in a hospital. So I talked to more friends and did research online, and a friend of mine had used this particular practice. I ended up going with the midwife that delivered her three children, and it worked out beautifully because it was early in pregnancy. That practice had openings. It took me a while because I was changing hospitals and practices completely. My insurance, luckily, covered all of the options. But that's another thing to look into. Does your insurance cover the hospital where the provider you want to switch to delivers that if it is a hospital birth? Of course, you can VBAC at home in certain states. So just looking at all of the factors that would come into play. So for me, it was dealing with the paperwork of switching out of that practice, getting admitted, and going to that initial get-to-know-you visit with a nurse and doing my labs before I got to meet with the midwife that I had wanted to work with. And so it took a bit. I mean, no one likes to deal with the paperwork and the phone calls it takes, but your health is so important and especially again, for VBACs.Meagan: Yeah. So you essentially did all the paperwork and the transfer yourself.Kristin: Yes.Meagan: Okay.Kristin: I made all the phone calls, dealt with insurance and made sure that the initial visit was paid for along with the nurse visit, and then that insurance was comfortable with me.Meagan: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, I did, when I switched, because I switched it 24 weeks, my midwife just faxed a request to my OB office. It took them a while to send it. We had to ask five times which I think probably would have been faster if I, like you, made the phone calls and did all the things, but I was like in this weird, vulnerable spot of like, I don't want to go back there.Kristin: Right. You don't want to deal with it.Meagan: Yeah, I don't want to deal with it.Kristin: Even just talking to the front desk.Meagan: Yeah, yeah. So we waited for it and they eventually got it. But I think that that's important to note. You guys can make the calls too. You can call and say, "Hey, I'd like to request my records to be printed out or to be sent to this place." Kristin: Yes, and that's what I did. Because otherwise it's six weeks oftentimes or you have to keep calling. They get lost. so I just handled it. But it can be challenging. And as doulas and certainly VBAC doulas, we know the providers who would be not only tolerant but supportive of VBAC. So we get those questions frequently from potential clients and clients of, am I at the right place? And of course, we support whoever our clients choose to have care from. But there's also, if asked, I will tell them about the practice and my own experience as a doula or the agency's experience. And again, in those large practices, there might be four who are so VBAC-supportive. They love it, but then there might be some physicians who are not as comfortable. They feel that a surgical birth might be the better route to go, ad so there's that. So what I like to do as a VBAC doula is to have my clients talk to their provider. Again, go over a birth plan or birth preference sheet and have them sign off on it. That way, if they don't attend the birth, then the other physicians know that this was approved. It's not just a birth plan that is thrown out there, but it has been discussed. It doesn't work all the time, but it has been helpful for my clients no matter if they're a VBAC client or this is their first baby, and again, they have certain goals that they want to achieve like potentially avoiding an induction unless medically necessary.Meagan: Oh my gosh. So I'm just going to re-touch on that, you guys, because that was really, really, really good advice and something I've actually never done or even thought about or suggested to my own doula practice clients. Get your birth preference sheet or birth plans everyone calls a difference. I call it a birth preference sheet, which is a list of all your preferences that you desire. Go over that with your provider, and have them physically sign it. Physically sign it and date it showing that your provider went over it. And like she said, every provider may not be willing to do that, but I will say, if a provider is willing to do that, that says something to me.Kristin: It does. Yes.Meagan: Yeah. Super powerful. Oh, my gosh. Okay, nugget. Grab it, put it in your pocket, everybody. Sign your birth preference sheet so you can have it and keep that in your bag, so if you do have that random on-call doctor who may not even know you or not be so supportive, be like, "This has already been discussed. We were aware of this. My doctor has signed off." Also, you could maybe ask if your provider could make a copy of that and put it in your chart.Kristin: Right. Because yes, it's not just the one that they have on file, but it's also for the ones that you have, that copy that you're bringing and showing the nurse so the nurse and everyone is on the same page. Meagan: Love that. Kristin: And again, with teaching hospitals, you might have residents in and out. There can be some difficult conversations with VBAC and residents who have never seen a VBAC. We're not fully trained yet to support VBAC, and so they might be making suggestions while the provider is not in that check-in. So every state, again, every area is different. I just happen to be in an area with multiple teaching hospitals.Meagan: Same here. We have seen it where I think, I don't want to say this badly. The VBAC world is a world that can have a lot of negativities in it, negative things and big words like uterine rupture. We've got residents who may be coming in and may be training under a provider who has seen a uterine rupture or has maybe molded an opinion on VBAC and is projecting their opinion to that student. Whether or not they're consciously doing it or not, they're saying their opinion, and those opinions might morph that resident's opinion into negative for VBAC. You never know. And so they might be doing things or be more hesitant in areas that they don't need to be, but they are.Kristin: Yeah, it's such a good point. And as you mentioned, I mean, we don't know the traumas that our nurses and medical team, even home birth midwives, have experienced, and they carry that with them. And how can they not? Even as doulas, we witness, but we don't have the liability and the medical training to make it, but we are witnesses of trauma and have our own healing to do to be able to better move on and support the next client. So certainly keeping that in mind that they may have seen something that alters the way they practice.Meagan: Yeah.Kristin: It's not just fear of lawsuits.Meagan: It's really not. It's not. There's a provider here in Utah who is literally so scared of vaginal birth herself. She scheduled all of her Cesareans, even the very first one from the get. She never had trial of labor or TOL. She just doesn't. So can you imagine what her Cesarean rate may be? And she kind of reminds me of the provider you're talking about. She really likes it just so controlled. Come in, start Pitocin, and get the epidural. She likes those things, which we know can sometimes lead to those Cesareans. And so really also discussing with your provider, how do you feel about birth? Have you had babies? And then we have another OB who's like, "I work in the hospital, and I love the hospital, and I trust the hospital system, but I actually gave birth at home with all three of my babies," and so really getting to know your provider, I think, is so good. Okay, let's keep going on this topic of assembling your dream team of experts when planning for birth and baby. What other things would you suggest to our Women of Strength?Kristin: Yes. So as we know, birth is as physical as it is mental, and just the opposite, as mental as it is physical. So preparing with a childbirth class, a comprehensive class, even if you took one before, use the lens of your goal of attempting a VBAC, a trial of labor. And so for us, we happen to teach HypnoBirth at Gold Coast Doulas and that mind/body connection that HypnoBirthing or a gentle birth offers where it's more of using the visualization the way an athlete would in preparing for a marathon or a triathlon, you are using things to reduce fear. You're understanding all of your options. It's very partner involved. I think taking a comprehensive childbirth class, whichever meets your individual goals, is great. That childbirth instructor is a great person to add to your birth and baby team. And then moving your body. So taking a fitness class that is appropriate for pregnancy. So prenatal yoga, there are Barre classes for pregnancy. There are prenatal belly dancing classes, whatever it is. Meagan: Aqua aerobics.Kristin: Yeah, water aerobics are amazing. And so thinking about baby's position and helping labor to go on its own or be quicker. There's acupuncture, acupressure, the Webster-certified chiro for positioning or body balancing experts, so many different options. But I am a big fan of educating yourself and preparing because as you mentioned earlier, Meagan, a doula is not your end all, be all. Just because we have the information and the training, we can't think for you. We don't want to think for you. The more informed you are, the more likely you're going to feel like birth didn't happen to you this time around and you were a direct participant, even if you end up having a surgical birth again.Meagan: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Oh my gosh. So talking about courses, you guys, we have our VBAC course. This VBAC course goes into VBAC, the stats about VBAC, the history of VBAC, the history of Cesarean, the stats of Cesarean, the questions, finding the provider, a little bit more of the mental prep, and physical prep. But when it comes to a childirth education course like with the course that she has, they're on different levels. I actually suggest them both.Kristin: Yes, me too. Absolutely.Meagan: But it's so important to know the information that is in your course. I know you go even past preparing for birth and then birth and then postpartum. You go into all of it. We're going to talk more about it. But you guys, we as doulas, love getting information and we love sharing information. But like she said, we don't want to be the only one that knows the information in a team. When our clients come in, at least here in my group, when our clients come in and they are fully educated and we're like, yes. And then we can come in with our education and our experience and knowledge, you guys, it is a powerhouse team. It is a powerhouse team. We have clients who, when they take child birth education classes like yours, they are able to advocate more for themselves. They feel stronger to stand up and say, "Hey, thank you so much, but no thanks" or "Maybe later," when our clients who haven't had that childbirth education or just any information other than maybe what we're providing, which is great, but not enough in the full length of pregnancy, it's a little harder. We have to try to encourage those clients a little bit more because it's harder for them because they don't know everything. We're there to help guide them and help advocate for them and educate them, but it is very different.Kristin: It is. It's so different. And I feel like, again, partners, especially male partners, want to fix things. They don't want their love to feel any pain, and so they may have the fear of a VBAC. So taking a VBAC class course, having a VBAC doula, giving information is just as helpful, if not more for the partner and their comfort level and to have them fully get on board because they may be resisting and just going along for the ride, but if you can get them to be an active participant in education, then they're going to be able to help you. And sometimes in labor, we get to a point in transition where we can't fully speak for ourselves. But if our partner understands, is educated and on board, and if there's time to talk through the risks and benefits and alternatives with your doula, then yes. But sometimes decisions have to be made quickly, and so for that partner to be informed and educated is crucial.Meagan: So crucial. It's so powerful. My husband-- he was not so on board. He was like, "Whatever. I don't care. You can go to the courses. You can do these things."Kristin: And that's very typical.Meagan: It's very typical. And I did. I did do those things. When I said, "Hey, I'm going to birth out-of-hospital," and he was like, "No," I was like, "Well, sorry. I've done the education. I know this is really where my heart is pulling." We touched on this in the beginning how partners really can influence decision making. And in no way, shape or form am I trying to say partners are terrible or don't listen to your partner or anything like that. That's not the goal of what we're saying is have an educated partner. Know that you can assemble a birth team, like a provider, a chiropractor, a massage therapist, a doula, a PT, or whatever it may be, but don't forget about your partner. Your partner is a huge part of your team, and if they're not educated and they're not able to help guide you through, or if they're not being supportive, find ways to help them be supportive by taking a course with them and helping them realize, oh, VBAC actually isn't that scary. Oh, that chance isn't really 50+%. Oh, okay. Hospital birth, out-of-hospital birth. Yeah. They're both reasonable, and really understanding that.Kristin: Absolutely. And sometimes I find that my students and clients may have not had success with breastfeeding the first time and potentially didn't take a class. So if their goal is to breastfeed or pump exclusively, then taking a breastfeeding class and having that IBCLC as a resource for their dream team in case it's needed because many times, you have the lactation consultant who's teaching the class, at least in my practice, and then they're also available for say, a home visit or a hospital visit, depending on where the class is taking place. And so I think that that's something. Even if it isn't your first baby and maybe you breastfed for a little bit or had supply issues or challenges after a surgical birth, that it is important to consider any education during pregnancy because it's much harder to get that education after you have your baby.Meagan: It really is. I love that you're touching on that, really getting into all the things and having your partner go with you. I remember I was like, I had a C-section, and I was swollen and tired, and I couldn't move very well. I was sore and all the things that sometimes come with C-sections. I'm trying to nurse, and I'm engorged.  I don't feel my letdown, and I'm just so engorged. I don't know. All I know is I have really big, swollen boobs. It's all I could tell. I couldn't latch. My husband was like, "That's it. We're going to the store. We're getting formula." Formula is fine. Not anything against formula.Kristin: He's trying to fix the problem and make you feel better.Meagan: Yep, yep, yep. Trying to fix that problem. But I was like, "No, I really want to breastfeed." At that point, I wasn't able to communicate. Like, I didn't get the birth I wanted. I already felt like a failure because I was actually told that your body failed. That's what I was told. So I was already dealing with this mindset that I failed. I had a C-section. I didn't want a C-section. And now the only thing I could try to do because I couldn't take that C-section back is breastfeed my baby. I wanted to breastfeed my baby. And again, we didn't take those childbirth education classes. He for sure didn't download any apps. I at least had an app trying to help me at that point, but he didn't understand. He didn't understand.And I'm like, no.I'm crying, and I'm like, "Please, just help me. I don't know what I need to help me." And he's like, "No, we're going to the store. Our baby's mad. You're crying." He was trying to fix that problem. But if we had already done that information education before and found that IBCLC before and him understanding how important that was to me, he could have been like, "I'm going to call her IBCLC. I'll get her over here right away."Kristin: Exactly. The last thing you want to do is go into the hospital to see a lactation consultant there if you can even get in.Meagan: Exactly. Yeah. So it just could have been so much smoother. Sometimes I feel like we were against each other at that point because he didn't have any education. With our first, I really didn't have much education. But with our third, it was like he really didn't have a lot of education. and I was over-the-top educated, so I was saying these things, and he was thinking I was demeaning him or saying he was stupid because it was just this weird thing. So if we can just come together with our partners and get all the education and get it all before really, find out a postpartum plan. Find out a breastfeeding plan. Right? Find out what you want. You guys, it just makes the pregnancy journey and the postpartum journey, so much better. It truly makes you feel like you're on that team because you are.Kristin: Yes. Absolutely. And certainly, I mean, you mentioned apps. Not everyone has the means or even lives in an area where they can take a comprehensive five, six, ten-week childbirth class. There are, obviously, online classes. There are some Zoom virtual ones where students are all over the place. But there are watching birth videos and YouTube and in my book, Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby, we talk about apps, so count the kicks. Especially for VBACs, doing the self-monitoring if there's fear of fetal movement and any sort of distress during the end of the pregnancy, then really understanding your own body and doing monitoring. It's not just when you're in your provider's office being monitored. You can make a difference yourself. So having some different apps and some education on your own, listening to podcasts like yours to get this information and reading books. So there's more than if you can't afford a childbirth class like HypnoBirthing, there are still ways that you can get educated and your partner can get educated. So yeah, take a look at all of your options and your budget.Meagan: Yeah, and we talk about this all the time because I love them, but Be Her Village is a really great resource where you can go fill out a registry and, hopefully, get some help for these things. Childbirth education classes, doulas, IBCLCS. But I want to dive a little bit more into your book, actually, while we're talking about different resources. We talked about the childbirth education, but can we talk about more about Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby and how this came into fruition and what all is included in this amazing book.Kristin: Okay, Meagan. So essentially the book came out of our online course. Becoming a Mother launched in the early pandemic when everything was shut down and our classes all had to go virtual. I was fortunate to be in a state where doulas who were certified were able to work thanks to our governor. So we were working, but there was still a lot of isolation even with our clients' prenatal visits. They wanted a connection, so we launched this course. We had talked about and did three live launches, got VBAC from our students, pulled people in from all the moms' groups before creating the first draft of the course. And then the course just led to the book. So the content in Becoming a Mother is what is in the book in a different format. So in Becoming a Mother, we have expert videos, so VBAC specialists and Webster-certified chiropractors talking about what that is. Pelvic floor physical therapists, car seat safety technicians, cord blood banking donation centers.Meagan: Awesome.Kristin: We have the experts speaking for themselves-- a pediatrician. And so in the book, anything that is medical and out of the scope of a doula, we had expert contributors, so I have a pediatrician friend of mine who contributed a newborn procedure section of the chapter and a prenatal yoga studio instructor, she's also a certified body balancer. She contributed to some of the fitness options in the book, and a mental health therapist who is PMA focused and certified contributed to the mental health chapter. We have an IBCLC that contributed to the feeding chapter, and so a lot of involvement, and then sharing client stories throughout the book and then our own wisdom. We have doula tips and wisdom at the end of every chapter. Meagan: Wow.Kristin: And so as clients were asking me for books over the years, I couldn't find anything that was positive. I felt like there were a lot of, this is your cry-it-out method for sleep because we have a whole chapter on sleep and it's very attachment-focused. It's like, one way for feeding, and we wanted our clients, with their unique choices for themselves, to have a book that supports people who want to plan surgical birth like that OB and that's their comfort level and a book for the same person who wants a home birth. You don't have to buy five different books. It's not always Ina May which is a great book but not for everyone. All of her different-- she's got Spiritual Midwifery and so many different books. It is great for grandparents to read and partners but is targeted to the mother or the mother-to-be and is great in preconception in that early planning. But also, we wanted to make it similar to the course and just as valuable for seasoned bombs as it is for new moms. And again, it's affirming. We tried not to have any fear-filled information in a simple, easy-to-read guide that you can pull out for reference and a lot of different, again, apps and podcasts and books to read and resources and evidence-based information about Black maternal health and where we're at in the country now and how the pandemic impacted birth especially, but also that postpartum time.Meagan: Wow. That book sounds amazing. So amazing. And you guys, you can get it in every form, even Audible. I'm a big listener. I like to listen to books. Kristin and Alyssa actually recorded it. She was telling me they had 10+-hour days recording this this book. You can get it, and we will make sure to have the links for that in the show notes. I found it at goldcoastdoulas.com/supportedyourguidetobirthandbaby.Kristin: It's there. You can find it off that website or it has its own page. It's supportedbook.com. Meagan: Supportedbook.com, okay. We'll make sure that's all in the show notes, so you guys can grab that. Okay, so you know a lot. Obviously, you wrote a whole book and a whole course and all this stuff. Is there anything else that you would like to share in regards to just our final assembling of that powerhouse birth team?Kristin: So don't forget, I know we're talking a lot about pregnancy and birth prep, but don't forget your recovery phase. And you had talked about your own personal struggles with breastfeeding engorgement, recovery after a surgical birth. If you have, well, you do have other children at home with VBACs, and so looking at childcare, postpartum doula support, or what kind of family support you're going to have after, it's more than just meal plans and prepping the nursery. We strongly believe that as part of your dream team, the postnatal team is crucial as well. So whether it's a lactation consultant, a pelvic floor physical therapist, if you want to get back to running marathons again or are leaking. I mean, we can all use pelvic floor physical therapy. It's not just the athletes who they support. Some people, again, with building a home or other life occurrences like a wedding or preparing for college, you look at your budget. You look at your main goals. For a wedding, it might be food. For postpartum, it might be sleep. So hiring a sleep consultant when baby's old enough or an overnight postpartum doula or a newborn care specialist. What are your priorities? And take the budget. What might be paid for by insurance or, a health savings flex spending plan that you need to run down? What might be gifted? Like you mentioned, Be Her Village. There are different ways you can budget. And in the book, we talk about all of that and looking at employer plans, how to navigate that, what questions to ask your HR department about other members, like a chiropractor, could that be covered? A therapist? Oftentimes, we don't know our own benefits and certainly, I don't know my husband's benefits fully, so to be able to investigate that early in pregnancy and figure out what might be fully or partially paid for.Meagan: Wow. That is incredible itself. I feel like that's a whole other conversation of, how to navigate how to do that. So definitely go get the book, you guys, because it sounds like there are just so many things in there that are honestly crucial to know. really, really important things to know. You are incredible. Kristin: So are you.Meagan: I just enjoy chatting with you so much. Anything else? Yeah, anything else you'd like to add?Kristin: And obviously, take taking trainings and courses. If I know you have doulas who listen. It's not just parents.Meagan: Yes.Kristin: As doulas go through The VBAC Link. Get certified as a VBAC doula. Keep up with information that is ever-changing. We all want to be the best doula for each of our clients, but I am a firm believer in continuing our own education and that more and more of our clients are choosing to attempt VBACs, and so the more information you can get as a professional, the better you're able to support. It's just not the number of VBACs you've attended anymore. It's clients wanting that knowledge so you can be busier and also a more effective doula by getting that training and then going through the certification process that you offer.Meagan: Yeah, have a directory actually with birth doulas where people can go and find it because when Julie and I created this company way back in the day, we knew that we were just two people here in Utah. We couldn't change the VBAC world. We could give as much information as we could. We could share the podcast. We could do those types of things. But when it comes to birth workers, we wanted to reach birth workers everywhere. It's so great that we have and we're still having more people come on because they're helping people so much. I mean, we know you have doulas that do it all the time. These doulas do help and there are actual stats on doulas that do it. But I agree. If you're a birth worker, stay up to date. Be in the know. Know what's going on because you will likely need to help guide your client through it. Kristin: Then you can charge more. So take that investment in a training like The VBAC Link, and then you're able to charge more because you're more experienced. You have more certifications. So don't look at like, oh, I don't have any money for continuing education. Look at how that's going to change your career.Meagan: Yeah, and I think sometimes too you can charge a little bit more, take less clients, and be more personal with those clients and dive into it. Especially because we do know that VBAC does take some extra stuff that goes on with VBAC. There's some extra work to be worked through. There are some extra things and so yeah, I love that.Kristin: Well, thank you so much for having me on Meagan, I loved our chat.Meagan: Thank you. You as well. As always, I loved our other chat as well. We have to keep going. I think I'm going to order your book today and get going on that. Even though I'm not a mom preparing, I think this would be such a great book to suggest to all of my clients. So thank you for sharing. Thank you.Kristin: Yeah. My secondary audience is certainly anyone who works with families in the birth and baby space, but it is targeted again, just similar to my podcast. It's like I have the listener of the pregnant individual and family, but also birth workers. The book is similar. Thank you for ordering.I appreciate it. Meagan: Yes. And can you also tell everybody where to find you not just in your book, but Instagram, podcast, and all of the social medias?Kristin: So my podcast is Ask the Doulas. You can find us on all the podcast players and you were a guest recently, so very fun. And certainly, we're at Gold Coast Doulas on everything from Pinterest to YouTube to Facebook to Instagram. I don't have separate social sites for my book because I honestly don't have time for that.Meagan: That's okay. Yeah, it's a package. It comes with everything, so you don't need to have another book page. Well, awesome. Well, thank you again so much.Kristin: Thank you. Have a great day.Meagan: You too.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Dr. Darrell Martin is an OB/GYN with four decades of expertise in women's health and the author of the bestselling memoir “In Good Hands: A Doctor's Story of Breaking Barriers for Midwifery and Birth Rights.” In this episode, Dr. Martin and Meagan walk down memory lane talking about differences in birth from when he started practicing to when he retired. He even testified before Congress to fight for the rights of Certified Nurse Midwives and for patients' freedom to select their healthcare providers! Dr. Martin also touches on the important role of doulas and why midwifery observation is a huge asset during a VBAC.Dr. Martin's TikTokIn Good Hands: A Doctor's Story of Breaking Barriers for Midwifery and Birth RightsDr. Martin's WebsiteCoterie DiapersUse code VBAC20 at checkout for 20% off your first order of $40 or more.How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, everybody. We have Dr. Darrell Martin joining us today. Dr. Martin hasn't really been in the OB world as of recently, but has years and years and over 5000 babies of experience. He wrote a book called, “In Good Hands: A Doctor's Story of Breaking Barriers for Midwifery and Birth Rights.” We wanted to have him on and talk just a little bit more about this book and his history. That is exactly what he did. He walked us down memory lane, told us lots of crazy stories, and good stories, and things they did along the way to really advocate for birth rights and midwives in their area. Dr. Darrell Martin is a gynecologist, a dedicated healthcare advocate with four decades of expertise in women's health, and the author of the bestselling memoir, “In Good Hands: A Doctor's Story of Breaking Barriers for Midwifery and Birth Rights.” His dedication to patient care and choice propelled him to testify before Congress, championing the rights of Certified Nurse Midwives (CNMs) and advocating for patients' freedom to select their healthcare providers. A standout moment in his career was his fervent support for nurse-midwifery in Nashville, Tennessee, showcasing his commitment to advancing the profession. Additionally, Dr. Martin takes great pride in having played a pivotal role, in like I said, more than 5,000 births, marking a legacy of life and joy he has helped bring into the world.Our interview was wonderful. We really walked down what he had seen and what he had gone through to testify before Congress. We also talked about being safe with your provider, and the time that he put into his patients. We know that today we don't have the time with our providers and a lot of time with OBs because of hospital time and restricting how many patients they see per day and all of those things. But really, he encourages you to find a provider who you feel safe with and trust. I am excited for you guys to hear today's episode. I would love to hear what your thoughts were, but definitely check out the book, “In Good Hands: A Doctor's Story of Breaking Barriers for Midwifery and Birth Rights.”Meagan: Okay, you guys. I really am so excited to be recording with Dr. Martin today. We actually met a month ago from the time of this recording just to chitchat and get a better feel for one another. I hung up and was like, “Yes. Yes. I am so excited to be talking with Dr. Martin. You guys, he has been through quite the journey which you can learn a lot more about in more depth through his book. We are going to talk right there really quick. Dr. Martin, welcome to the show. Can we dive into your book very first? Dr. Darrell Martin: Surely. Thank you. Meagan: Yeah. I think your book goes with who you are and your history, so we will cover both. Dr. Darrell Martin: Okay, okay. Meagan: Tell us more. Darrell Martin's book is “In Good Hands”. First of all, I have to say that I love the picture. It's baby's little head. It's just so awesome. Okay, we've got “In Good Hands: A Doctor's Story of Breaking Barriers for Midwifery and Birth Rights.” Just right there, that title is so powerful. I feel like with VBAC specifically, if we are going to dive into VBAC specifically, there are a lot of barriers that need to be broken within the world of birth. We need to keep understanding our birth rights. We also have had many people who have had their rights taken away as midwives. They can't even help someone who wants to VBAC in a lot of areas. A lot of power is in this book. Tell us a little bit more about this book and how it came about. Dr. Darrell Martin: Well, the book came because of patients. As I was heading into my final run prior to retirement, that last 6-8 months, and I use that term, but it shouldn't be patient. It should be client because patient would imply that they have an illness. Occasionally, they do have some problems, but in reality, they are first the client wanting a service. I thought my role as to provide this service and listen to them about what that was and what they wanted to have occur. In response to the question of what was I going to do when I retired, I just almost casually said, “I'm going to write a book.” The book evolved into the story of my life because so much of the patients and clients when they would come to me were sharing their life, and they were sharing what was going on in their life. Amazingly, it was always amazing to me that in 3 or 4 minutes of an initial meeting, they would sometimes open up about their deepest, darkest secrets and it was a safe place for them to share. I always was blown away with that. I respected that. Many times there were friends of my wife who would come in. I would not dare share a single thing notwithstanding the fact that there were HIPAA regulations, but the right thing was they were sharing with me their life. I thought, “I'm going to turn that around as much as I can by sharing my life with them.” It was an homage to that group of individuals so I would like them to see where I was coming from as I was helping them. That was the goal. That was the intent. Secondarily, for my grandchildren and hopefully the great-grandchildren that come whether I'm here or not because including them with that was the history of my entire American heritage and my grandfather coming over or as we would call him Nono, coming over to the United States and to a better place to better a life for his family. Our name was changed from Marta to Martin at Ellis Island. I wanted that story of his sacrifice for his family and subsequently my uncles' sacrifice and my parents' sacrifice for the priority they placed on families. That was for my children as well and grandchildren. There were a lot of old pictures that we had that we pulled out and that didn't occur in the book because there wasn't enough money to produce a lot of those pictures into the book, but they will be there in a separate place for my kids and grandkids. It was a two-fold reason to do the book. It started just as a narrative. I started typing away. The one funny ironic, and I don't know if ironic is the right word, story as I was growing up, is that people as my why I become an OB/GYN. I'm sure this was not the reason, but it's interesting as I reflected that growing up, it was apparently difficult for my mother to have me. I was her only child. She always would say I was spoiled nice, but I was definitely spoiled. When she was mad at me, the one thing she would say, and I didn't understand it until much later when I was actually probably in medical school, was that I was a dry birth and I was breech, and I just ruined her bottom. When she really got aggravated occasionally, she would say those little words to me as I was probably a teenager. Then on reflection, I became an OB/GYN so I really understood what she was saying then. Meagan: It was interesting that you said the words “dry birth” because my mom, when my water broke with my second, she was telling me that I was going to have this dry birth. She was like, “If you don't go in, you're going to have this dry birth.” So many people I have said that to are like, “What? I have never heard of that in my entire life,” and you just said that, so it really was a thing. It really was something that was said. Dr. Darrell Martin: Yes. It was a term back then in the late 40s to late 50s I guess. Meagan: Crazy. So you were inspired. You decided to do the OB route. Tell us a little bit of how that started and then how you changed over the years. Dr. Darrell Martin: Well, when I was in med school, and I went to West Virginia University Medical School, principally, it was fortunate because I would say in retrospect, they were probably lower middle class. I had the opportunity to go to West Virginia. Literally, my tuition per semester was $500. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Dr. Darrell Martin: My parents didn't have to dig into money they didn't have. They never had to borrow any money, so I was fortunate. I did have a scholarship to college. They didn't have to put out the money with the little they had saved. The affordability was there and never an issue. I went to West Virginia, and in my second year, I guess I connected a little bit with some of the docs and some of the chair of the department in West Virginia, Dr. Walter Bonnie, who I didn't realize at the time had left. He was the chairman of Vanderbilt before he was the chairman of West Virginia so now I understand why he was pointing me to either go to Vanderbilt or to Duke. I think I'm fortunate that I went to Vanderbilt. In spite of everything that happened, it was the path I was supposed to take. I did a little rotation as a 2nd-year medical student with some private OBs. I was just amazed. I was enthralled by the intervention of the episiotomies I observed. I said, “Well, you're going to learn how to sew.” What really struck me was that I went into this. I still can picture it. It was a large room where there were probably four or six women laboring. They had almost one of the baby beds. They had the thing where you can pull up the sides so someone couldn't get out of the bed. I couldn't figure out why someone in labor was like this. There was a lady there. I'll never forget. She had been given scopolamine which is the amnesiac which was often used where women sometimes don't even know where they are. They don't even have memory of where they are. She was underneath the bed on all fours barking like a dog. I asked him, “Why are you not going to let her husband in here?” They were saying things they probably shouldn't say under the influence of these crazy drugs. It made me start thinking even from that point on, “Why are they doing this? Why are they zapping them so much in the way of drugs?” Then I didn't see or understand fetal monitoring. We didn't have it at West Virginia. It came in my residency. It had just come in the first year prior to that, and the new maternal-fetal head at Vanderbilt brought in fetal monitoring. He had done some of the original research with Dr. Han at Yale. What I was doing a medical student during my rotations was sitting at the bedside. That's what we as medical students were responsible to do. Sit at the bedside. Palpate the abdomen. Sit with the fetoscope, the little one you stick around your head and put down, and count the heartbeats. We would be there six or eight hours. We were responsible for drawing all of the blood, but more importantly, we were there observing labor. Albeit, they weren't allowed to get up, but it was just the connection and I loved that connection. I loved that sense of connecting with people, and then that evolved into you connecting with them when they come back for their visits. I've had quite a few people who I've seen for 20, 30, 35 years annually. That became a much more than just doing a pelvic exam, blah, blah, blah. It became a connection. It was a communication of, “What's going on in your life? What's happening?” Meagan: A true friendship. Dr. Darrell Martin: Yes. Meagan: It became true friendships with these parents and these mothers. I think that says a lot about you as a provider. Yeah. That makes us feel more connected and safe. Dr. Darrell Martin: Yeah. I desperately miss that. I still miss that as a vocation and that connection. I would look forward to it. I would look on the schedule, “Who's coming in?” I could remember things about them that we would deal with for 15 years or more. One client of mine who, we would begin by, “How are you doing?” We would still go back to when her son was at a college in Florida and was on a bicycle and got hit and killed. We were relating and discussing that 15 years later. It was a place where she knew that we would go back to that point and talk a little bit about her feelings and it's much more important to me. If everything's fine doing a breast exam and doing a pelvic exam, listening to the heart and lungs, that's all normal and perfunctory. It's important, but what's really important is that connection. My goal also was, if I could, to leave the person as they went out the door laughing and to try to say something to cheer them up, to be entertaining, not to make light of their situation if obviously they had a bad problem, but still to say as they would leave with a smile on their face or a little laugh, but the funny one, I still remember this. We had instituted all of these forms. It would drive me crazy if I went to the doctor. We had all of these forms with all of these questions. They were repetitive every year. You just couldn't say that it was the same. She came in. She was laughing. She said, “These forms are crazy. It's asking me do I have a gun at home?” I said, thinking about it, in my ignorance, I hadn't reviewed every single question of these 15 pages that they were going to get. I'm sure it was about depression and to pick up on depression if they have a gun at home. She laughed. She said, “The young lady who was asking me the questions said, ‘Do you have a gun at home?' I said, ‘No, I have it right here in my purse. Would you like to see it?'” Meagan: Oh my gosh. Dr. Darrell Martin: So it was just joking about how she really got the person flustered who was asking the question. Sometimes we ask questions in those forms that are a little over the top. Meagan: Yeah. What I'm noticing is that you spent time with your patients not even just to get to know them, but you really wanted to get to know them. You didn't just do the checked boxes and the forms. It was to really get to know them. We talked about finding a good practice last time. What does that look like? What can we do? What are things to do? What is the routine that is normal for every provider's office or is there a normal routine for every provider's office? From someone coming in and wanting an experience like what you provide, how can we look for that? How can we seek that?Dr. Darrell Martin: Well, what you're saying and particularly when it evolves into having a chat, is first trust. you want to trust your provider. If you don't trust, you're anxious. We know that anxiety can produce a lot of issues. I would often tell a client who was already pregnant let's say as opposed to what should be done before they get pregnant. I would say they are getting ready to take a big test, and that test is having a baby. I said, “It's like a pass/fail. You're all going to pass. What do you want to have happen? You need to be comfortable and learn as much as you can and have people alongside you that you trust so that it is a great experience.” The second one, I'm sure you've seen this is that sometimes you just worry that people get so rigid in what they want, and then they feel like a failure if it doesn't happen. We want to avoid that because that can lead to a lot of postpartum depression and things that last. They feel like a failure. That should never happen. That should never happen. They should understand that they have a pathway and a plan. If they trust who's there with them, what ends up happening is okay. It's not that they've been misled which is then where the plan is altered by not a good reason maybe, but it's been altered and it really throws them for a loop. Meagan: Yeah. Dr. Darrell Martin: I think in preparation, first they've got to know what their surroundings are. They start off. Ideally, someone's thinking about getting pregnant before they get pregnant. I've had enough clients who, when we start talking about birth control, and I'll say, “Are you sexually active?” “Yes.” “Are you using anything for birth control?” “No, I don't want to use anything for birth control.” I said, “Do you want to get pregnant?” “No.” I said, “Well, that's not equal. A, you're not having intercourse and B, you're not using anything, so eventually, you're going to get pregnant. You need to start planning for that outcome, but the prep work ahead of time is to know your surrounding. You've got to know what you know and you've got to know what you want. You really should be seeking some advice of close friends who you trust who have been through and experienced it in a positive way. You've got to know what your town where you live is like. Is there one hospital or two hospitals? What are the hospitals like?” Someone told me one time that I should just write a book about what to do before you get pregnant. Meagan: Yeah, well it's a big deal. Before you get pregnant is what really can set us up for the end too because if we don't prep and we're not educating ourselves before, and we don't know what we're getting into, we don't know our options. That can set us up for a less-ideal position. Dr. Darrell Martin: Yeah. I think that's where the role of a doula can come into play. I hate to say it this way, but if they're going to go to the provider's office, they're not going to get that kind of exchange in that length of time to really settle in to what it is what that plan is going to be like. To be honest, most of the providers are not going to spend the time to do that. Meagan: Mhmm, yeah. The experience that you gave in getting to know people on that level is not as likely these days. OBs are limited to 7-10 minutes per visit?Dr. Darrell Martin: That's on a good day probably. Meagan: See? Yeah. Dr. Darrell Martin: You're being really kind right there. You're being really kind. It's just amazing. Sometimes you're a victim of your own success. If you're spending more time, and you're involved with that, then you've got to make a decision in your practice of how many people you're going to see. If you're seeing a certain amount, then the more you see, what's going to happen to them? You have control of your own situation, but then often you feel the need to have other partners and other associates, and then it gets too business-like. Smaller, to me, is better. The only problem with small with obstetrics is we know that if it's a solo practice, for example, someone will say, “I'm going to this doctor here because I want to see he or she the whole time.” I say, “You've got to think about that. Is that person going to be on-call 365 days a year?” Then what happens later on in the pregnancy when that becomes more of a concern to the client, they'll ask. They'll say, “Well, I'm on-call every Thursday and one weekend out of four.” They freak out. They get really anxious. “What's going to happen? I just know you.” They'll say, “I'm on-call on Thursday. I do inductions on Thursday.” So it leads into that path of wanting that provider. So then to get that provider, they're going to be induced. And we know that that at least doubles the rate of C-sections, at least, depending on how patient or not patient they are.Meagan: I was going to say they've got this little ARRIVE trial saying, "Oh, it doesn't. It lowers it. But what people don't really know is how much time these ARRIVE trial patients were really given. And so when you say that time is what is not given, but it's needed for a vaginal birth a lot of the times with these inductions.Dr. Darrell Martin: Yes, yes, if the induction is even indicated to begin with because the quality assurance, a lot of hospitals, you have to justify the induction. But it doesn't really happen that way. I mean, if there's a group of physicians that are all doing the same thing, they're not going to call each other out.Meagan: Yeah.Dr. Darrell Martin: It's just going to continue to happen is there're 39 weeks. I love how exactly they know how big the baby's going to be. But even more importantly, how big can this person have? I mean, there are no correlations. There are no real correlations. I can remember before ultrasound, we were taught pelvimetry. the old X-ray and you see what the inner spinous distance is, but you still don't know for sure what size has going to come through there.Meagan: Oh right. Well, and we know that through movement, which what you were seeing in the beginning of your OB days in your schooling, they didn't move. They put them in the bed. They put them in a bed and sat them in the bed. So now we're seeing movement, but there's still a lack of education in position of baby. And so we're getting the CPD diagnosis left and right and being told that we'll never get a baby out of our pelvis or our baby's too large to fit through it, when in a lot of situations it's just movement and changing it up and recognizing a baby in a poor position. An asynclitic baby is not going to have as easy as a time as a baby coming down in an OA, nice, tucked position. Right?Dr. Darrell Martin: Exactly. Exactly. There was the old Friedman Curve and if you went off the Friedman Curve, I was always remarked it's 1.2 centimeters, I think prime at 1.5 per hour. But I can never figure out what 0.2 two was when you do a pelvic exam. What is that really? Is the head applied against the cervix? So it's all relative. It's not that exact. But no, I think that if a person could find a person they trust who knows the environment, I think that's where the value of a really good doula can help because they're emotionally connected to the couple, but they're not as connected as husband and wife are or someone else.Meagan: Or a sister or a friend.Dr. Darrell Martin: Yes. And that may be their first shot at that sister of being in a room like that other maybe her own child. It's nice to have someone with a lot more experience that can stand in the gap when they're emotionally distraught, maybe the husband is. He's sweating it out. He's afraid of what he's going to say sometimes. And then she's hurting and she needs that person who can be just subjective to  stand in the gap for her when they're trying to push the buttons in the wrong direction or play on their emotions a little too much.Meagan: Yeah. I love that you pointed that out. We actually talked about that in our course because a lot of people are like, "Oh, no, it's okay. I can just hire my friend or my sister." And although those people are so wonderful, there is something very different about having a doula who is trained and educated and can connect with you, but also disconnect and see other options over here.So we just kind of were going a little bit into induction and things like that. And when we talked a couple weeks ago, we talked about why less is better when it comes to giving medicine or induction to VBAC or not. We talked about it impeding the natural process. Can you elaborate more on that? On both. Why less is more, but then also VBAC and induction. What's ideal for that? What did you use back then?Dr. Darrell Martin: Well, we're going back a long time.Meagan: No, I know, I know.Dr. Darrell Martin: We're going back a long time. See, that would be like what you just did was give me about three questions in one that would be like being on a defensive stand on trial. And then you're trying to figure out where the attorney going, and he sets you up with three questions in one, and then you know you're in trouble when he does that.Meagan: I'm finding that I'm really good at doing that. Asking one question with three questions or five questions?Dr. Darrell Martin: Yes.Meagan: So, okay, let's talk about less is more. Why is less more?Dr. Darrell Martin: Well, first of all, you can observe the natural process of labor. Anytime you intervene with whatever medication-wise or epidural-wise, you're altering the natural course. I mean, that to me it just makes sense. I mean, those things never occurred years ago. So you are intervening in a natural course. And you then have got to factor that in to see how much is that hindering the labor process? Would it have been hindered if you hadn't done that? If you'd allow them to walk, if you allowed them to move? The natural observation of labor makes a lot more sense than the intervention where you've then got to figure out, is the cause of the arrest of labor, so to speak, is it because of the intervention or was it really going to occur?Meagan: Light bulb.Dr. Darrell Martin: Yes.Meagan: That's an interesting concept to think about.Dr. Darrell Martin: Yeah. And you want to be careful because it's another little joke. I say you just don't want to give the client/patient a silver bullet. Often I've had husbands say, "Well, they don't need any medicines." You have to be careful what you're saying because you're not the one in labor. But I wouldn't say that quite to them. But they got the picture really quickly when their wife, their spouse, lashed back out at them.Meagan: Yeah.Dr. Darrell Martin: So you can come over here and sit and see how you like it. I can still remember doing a Lamaze class with Sandy, and we also did Bradley class because I wanted to experience it all. She was the first person to deliver at Vanderbilt without any medication using those techniques. And when we would do that little bit of teaching, I can remember doing that when they would try to show a guy by pinching him for like 30 seconds and increasing the intensities to do their breathing, maybe they should have had something else pinched to make them realize-- Meagan: How intense.Dr. Darrell Martin: Yeah. How intense it isMeagan: Yeah.Dr. Darrell Martin: We can't totally experience it. So we have to be empathetic and balance that. And that's where, to me, having that other person can be helpful because I'm sure that that person who is the doula would be meeting and with them multiple times in the antepartum course as opposed to they go into labor and if there's a physician delivery, chances are their support person is going to be a nurse they've never met before or maybe multiple ones who come in and out and in and out and in and out, and they're not there like someone else would be. To me that's suboptimal, but that's the way it works. And I observed the first birth. I didn't tell the people at the hospital for my daughter-in-law that I was an obstetrician.Meagan: And yeah you guys, a little backstory. He was a doula at his daughter-in-law's birth.Dr. Darrell Martin: Yes. But her first birth did not turn out that well at an unnamed hospital. She didn't want to come to my practice because they weren't married that long and that's getting into their business a little bit. Plus, she lived on the north side of town and I was on the south side. So she chose, a midwifery group, but the midwife was not in there very much. I mean, she was responsible. They were doing probably 15 to 20 births per midwife.Meagan: Wow.Dr. Darrell Martin: They were becoming like a resident, really. They were not doing anything a whole lot differently. And then she had a fourth degree, and she then, in my opinion, got chased out of the hospital the next day and ended up turning around a day later and coming back with preeclampsia. I heard she had some family history of hypertension. I had to be careful because I'm the father-in-law. I'm saying, "Well, maybe you shouldn't go home." And then she ends up going back. And she didn't have HELLP syndrome, but she was pretty sick there for a day or two. That was unfortunate because she went home, and then she had to go right back and there's the baby at home because the baby can't go back into the hospital. And so her second birth, because it was such a traumatic experience with the fourth degree, she elected to use our group and wanted one of my partners to electively section her. She did the trauma of that fourth degree. That was so great. So she did. But obviously, she had a proven pelvis because she had a first vaginal delivery. And then she came to me and she said, "I want to do a VBAC." And so I said, "Oh, that's great." And so one of my partners was there with her, but my son got a little bit antsy and a little bit sick, so he kind of left the room. I was the support person through the delivery. That was my opportunity to be a doula. And of course, she delivered without any medication and without an episiotomy and did fine. Meagan: Awesome.Dr. Darrell Martin: And a bigger baby than the one that was first time.Meagan: Hey, see? That's awesome. I love that.Dr. Darrell Martin: Yes.Meagan: So it happens.So we talked a little bit about midwives, and we talked about right here "A Doctor's Story of Breaking Barriers for Midwifery". Talk to us about breaking barriers for midwifery. And what are your thoughts one on midwives, but two, midwives being restricted to support VBAC?Dr. Darrell Martin: Okay, that's two questions again.Meagan: Yep. Count on me to do that to you.Dr. Darrell Martin: I'll flip to the second one there. I think it's illogical to not allow a midwife to be involved with a VBAC. That makes no sense to me at all because if anybody needs more observation in the birth process, it would potentially or theoretically actually be someone who's had a prior C-section. Right? There's a little bit more risk for a rupture that needs more observation, doesn't need someone in and out, in and out of the room. The physician is going to be required to be in-house or at least when we were doing them, they were required to be in house and there was the ability to do a section pretty quickly. But observation can really mitigate that rush, rush, rush, rush, rush. I've had midwives do breeches with me and I've had them do vaginal twins. If I'm there, they can do it just as well as I can. I'm observing everything that's happening and they should know how to do shoulder dystocia. One thing that you cannot be totally predictive of and doctors don't have to be in the hospital for the most part in hospitals. Hopefully, there probably are some where they're required, but it makes no sense and they're able to do those. So if I'm there observing because the hospital is going to require that, and I think that's not a bad thing. I never would be opposed or would never advocate that I shouldn't be there for a VBAC. But I think to have the support person and that be the midwife is going to continue and do the delivery, I think that's great. There's no logic of what they're going to do unless that doctor is just going to decide that they're going to play a midwife role and that they're going to be there in that room. They're advocating that role to a nurse or multiple nurses who the person doesn't know, never met them before, and so that trust is not there. They're already stressed. The family's stressed. There are probably some in-laws or relatives out there and they say, "Well, you're crazy. Why are you doing this for? Why don't you just have a section?" Everybody has an opinion, right? So there's a lot of family. I would observe that they're sitting out there and we've got into that even back then that's a society that some of them don't want to be there, but they feel obliged to be out there waiting for a birth to occur. Right. When four hours goes by, "Oh, oh, there must be a problem. Why aren't they doing something?" You hear that all the time. I try to say, "Well, first labor can be 16 to 20 hours." "16 to 20 hours?" and then they think, "I'm going to be here for that long."Meagan: Yeah.Dr. Darrell Martin: So there's always that push at times from family about things aren't moving quickly.Meagan: Right.Dr. Darrell Martin: They're moving naturally, but their frame of reference is not appropriate for what's occurring. They don't really understand. And so that's the answer. Yes. I think that it makes no sense that midwives are not involved. That does not make any sense at all.So the first part of the question was what happened with me and midwives?Meagan: Well, breaking barriers for midwifery. There are so many people out there who are still restricted to not be able to support VBAC. I mean, we have hospital midwives here in Utah that can't even support VBAC. The OBs are just completely restricting them. What do you mean when you say breaking barriers for midwifery and birth rights?Dr. Darrell Martin: Okay, what I meant was this is now in late 1970, 79, 80. And I'd observe midwifery care because as residents, we were taking care of individuals at three different hospitals, one of which was Nashville General, which was a hospital where predominantly that was indigent care, women with no insurance. And we had a program there with midwives.Dr. Darrell Martin: And so we were their backup. I was their backup for my senior residency, chief residency, and subsequently, as an attending because I was an attending teaching medical students and residents and really not teaching midwives, just observing them if they needed anything, within the house most of the time, principally for the medical students and the junior residents. But I saw their outcomes, how great they were. I saw the connection that occurred. We didn't have a residency program where you saw the same people every time then. It was just purely a rotation. You would catch people and it just became seeing 50 or 75 people and just try to get them in and out. But then you observe over here and watch what happens with the midwifery group and the lack of intervention and the great outcomes because they had to keep statistics to prove what they were doing. Right? Meagan: Yeah, yeah. I'm sure. Dr. Darrell Martin: They were required to do that, and you would see that the outcomes were so much better. Then it evolved because a lot of those women over the course of the years prior to me being there and has evolved while I was there, I was befriended by one midwife. She was a nurse in labor and delivery who then went on to midwifery school. We became really close friends. Her family and my family became very close. They had people, first of all, physicians' wives who wanted to use them and friends in the neighborhood who wanted to use them, but they had insurance and people that had delivered there who then were able to get a job and had insurance and wanted to use them again, but they couldn't at the indigent hospital. You had to not have insurance. So there was no vehicle for them in Nashville to do birth. We advocated for a new program at Vanderbilt where they could do that and at the same time do something that's finally occurring now and that's how midwives teach medical students and teach residents normal birth because that's the way you develop the connection that moves on into private practice is they see their validity at that level and that becomes a really essentially part of what they want to do when they leave. They don't see them as competition as much. Still, sometimes it's competition. So anyhow, at that point, our third hospital was relatively new. The Baptist private hospital run by the private doctors where the deliveries at that point were the typical ones with amnesiac, no father in the room, an episiotomy, and forceps. So when we tried to do the program, the chairman-- and we subsequently found some of this information out. It wasn't totally aware at the time. They were given a choice by the private hospital. Either you continue to have residents at the private hospital or you have the midwifery private program at Vanderbilt. But you can't have both. If you're going to do that, you can't have residence over here. So they were using the political pressure to stop it from happening. Then I said, they approached myself and the two doctors, partners, I was working with in Hendersonville which is a little suburb north of town. We had just had a new hospital start there and we were the only group so that gave us a lot of liberties. I mean, we started a program for children of birth with birthing rooms, no routine episiotomies, all walking in labor, and all the things you couldn't do downtown. Well, the problem was we wanted midwives in into practice but we didn't have the money to pay them. We were brand new. So we had a discussion and they said, "Well, we want to start our own business." And I said, "Oh." And I kind of joked, I said, "Well that's fine, I can be your employee then." And that was fine for us. I mean, we had no problem being their consultant because someone asked, "Well, how can you let that happen?" I said, "We still have control of the medical issues. We can still have a discussion and they can't run crazy. They're not going to do things that we don't agree with just because they're paying for the receptionists and they're taking ownership of their practice." So they opened their doors on Music Row in Nashville.Meagan: Awesome.Dr. Darrell Martin: But as soon as that started happening and they announced it, at that time, the only insurance carrier for malpractice in the state of Georgia was State Volunteer Mutual which was physician-owned because of the crisis so they couldn't get any insurance the other way a physician couldn't unless it was through the physician-owned carrier. Well, one of the persons who was just appointed to the board was a, well I would call an establishment old-guard, obstetrician/gynecologist from Nashville. And he said in front of multiple people that he was going to set midwifery back 100 years, and he was going to get my malpractice insurance. He was going to take my malpractice insurance away.Meagan: Wow.Dr. Darrell Martin: For practicing with midwife. And that was in the spring of the year. Well, by October of that year, he did take my malpractice insurance. They did.Meagan: Wow. For working with midwives? Dr. Darrell Martin: For risks of undue proportion. Yes. The Congressman for one of the midwives was Al Gore, and in December of that year we had a congressional hearing in D.C. where we testified. The Federal Trade Commission got involved. The Federal Trade Commission had them required the malpractice carrier to open their books for five years. And what that did was it stopped attacks across the United States. There were multiple attacks going on all across the country trying to block midwives from practicing independently or otherwise. And so from 1980-83, when subsequently a litigation was settled, the malpractice carrier, including the physicians who were involved, all admitted guilt before it went to the Supreme Court. I went through a few years there and that's where you see some of those stories where I was blackballed and had to figure out a place where I was going to work. I almost went back to school. This is a little funny story. I was pointed in the direction of Dr. Miller who was the head of Maternal Child Health at Chapel Hill University of North Carolina. I didn't realize that then two months later, he testified before Congress as well because he wanted me to come there. I interviewed and then I would get my PhD and do the studies that would disprove all the routine things that physicians were doing to couples. I would run those studies. It was a safe space. It was a safe place, a beautiful place in Chapel Hill. So he told me, he said, "You need to meet with my manager assistant and she'll talk to you about your stipend, etc." Now I had three children under four years of age.Meagan: Wow, you were busy.Dr. Darrell Martin: Well, the first one was adopted through one of the friends I was in school with, so we had two children seven months apart because Sandy was pregnant and had like four or five miscarriages before.Meagan: Wow.Dr. Darrell Martin: So I had three under four. So she proceeded to say, "Well Dr. Martin, this is great. Here's your stipend and I have some good news for you." I said, "Well, what's that?" He said, "Well, you're going to get qualified for food stamps." That's good news? Okay. So I'm trying to support my three children and my wife. I said, "I can't do that. As much as I would love to go to this safe place," and Chapel Hill would have been a safe place because it would have been an academia, but then I had to find a place to work. So it was just how through my faith, it got to the point where know ending up in Atlanta, I was able to not only do everything I wanted to do, but one of the midwives that I worked with, Vicki Henderson Bursman won the award from the midwifery college. And the year after, I received the Lewis Hellman Award for supporting midwives from ACOG and AC&M. But we prayed. We said, "One day we're going to work together." And this was 1980. In 93, when we settled the lawsuit, we reconnected. I was chairman of a private school, and we hired her husband to come to Atlanta to work at the school. Two weeks, three weeks later, I get a call from the administrator of the hospital in Emory who was running the indigent project at the hospital we were working at teaching residents. They said that they wanted to double the money. Their contract was up and they wanted double what they had been given. So the hospital refused and they asked me to do the program. We didn't have any other place to go. And then what was happening? Well, Rick was coming to Atlanta, but so was Vicki. So Vicki, who I hadn't worked with for 13 years, never was able to work, came and for the next 20 years, worked in Atlanta with me. And we did. She ran basically the women's community care project, and then also worked in the private practice. And then the last person, Susie Soshmore, who was the other midwife, really couldn't leave Nashville. She was much, much more, and rightly so, she was bitter about what happened and never practiced midwifery. Her husband was retiring. She decided since they were going to Florida to Panama City, that she wanted to get back and actually start doing midwifery, but she needed to be re-credentialed. So she came and spent six months with us in Atlanta as we re-credentialed her and she worked with us. So ultimately we all three did get to work together.Meagan: That's awesome. Wow. What a journey. What a journey you have been on.Dr. Darrell Martin: Yeah, it was quite a journey.Meagan: Yeah. It's so crazy to me to hear that someone would actively try to make sure that midwifery care wasn't a thing. It's just so crazy to me, and I think it's probably still happening. It's probably still happening here in 2024. I don't know why midwives get such a bad rap, but like you said, you saw with the studies, their outcomes were typically better. Dr. Darrell Martin: Yeah.Meagan: Why are we ignoring that?Dr. Darrell Martin: Doctors were pretty cocky back then. They may be more subtle about what they do now because to overtly say they're going to get your malpractice insurance, that's restricted trade.Meagan: Yeah. That's intense.Dr. Darrell Martin: Intense. Well, it's illegal to start with.Meagan: Yeah, yeah, yeah, right?Dr. Darrell Martin: If you attack the doctor, you get the midwife. They tried to attack the policies and procedures. That was the other thing they were threatening to do was, "Well, if you still come here, we're going to close the birthing room. We're going to require women to stay flat in bed. We require episiotomies. We require preps and enemas." Well, they wouldn't require episiotomies, but certainly preps and enemas and continuous monitoring just to make it uncomfortable and another way to have midwives not want to work there.Meagan:  Yes. I just want to Do a big eye-roll with all of that. Oh my goodness. Well, thank you so much for taking the time and sharing your history and these stories and giving some tips on trusting our providers and hiring a doula. I mean, we love OBs too, but definitely check out midwives and midwives, if you're out there and you're listening and you want to learn how to get involved in your community, get involved with supportive OBs like Dr. Martin and you never know, there could be another change. You could open a whole other practice, but still advocate for yourself.I'm trying to think. Are there any final tips that you have for our listeners for them on their journey to VBAC?Dr. Darrell Martin: Well, pre-pregnancy that next time around, we know very quickly that the weight of the baby is controlled by heredity which you really essentially have no control over that including who your husband is. If he's 6'5", 245, their odds are going to be that the baby might be a little bigger. However, you do have control what your pre-pregnancy weight is, and if you get your BMI into a lower range, we know statistically that the baby's probably going to be a little bit smaller, and that gives you a better shot. You don't have control of when you deliver, but you do have control of your weight gain during the pregnancy and you do have control of what your pre-pregnancy weight, which are also factors in the size of the baby. So control what you can control, and trust the rest that it's going to work out the way it should.Meagan:  Yeah, I think just being healthy, being active, getting educated like you said, pre-pregnancy. It is empowering to be educated and prepared both physically, emotionally, and logistically like where you're going, and who you're seeing. All of that before you become pregnant. It really is such a huge benefit. So thank you again for being here with us today. Can you tell us where we can find your book?Dr. Darrell Martin: Yeah, it's available on Amazon. It's available at Books A Million. It's available at Barnes and Noble. So all three of the major sources.Meagan:  Some of the major sources. Yeah. We'll make sure to link those in the show notes. If you guys want to hear more about Dr. Martin's journey and everything that he's got going on in that book, we will have those links right there so you can click and purchase. Thank you so much for your time today.Dr. Darrell Martin: Thank you. I enjoyed it and it went very quickly. It was enjoyable talking to you.Meagan:  It did, didn't it? Just chatting. It's so fun to hear that history of what birth used to be like, and actually how there are still some similarities even here in 2024. We have a lot to improve on. Dr. Darrell Martin: Absolutely, yes. Meagan:  But it's so good to hear and thank you so much for being there for your clients and your customers and patients, whatever anyone wants to call them, along the way, because it sounds like you were really such a great advocate for them.Dr. Darrell Martin: Well, we tried. We tried. It was important that they received the proper care, and that we served them appropriately, and to then they fulfill whatever dream they had for that birth experience or be something they would really enjoy.Meagan:  Yes. Well, thank you again so much.Dr. Darrell Martin: Okay, thank you. I enjoyed talking to you. Good luck, and have fun.Meagan: Thank you.Dr. Darrell Martin: Bye-bye.Meagan: Thank you. You too. Bye.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Dr. Darrell Martin is a gynecologist and healthcare advocate with four decades of expertise in women's health. He has testified before Congress, championing the rights of Certified Nurse Midwives and patients' freedom to select their healthcare providers.  Dr. Martin takes great pride in having played a pivotal role in more than 5,000 births, marking a legacy of life and joy he has helped bring into the world. https://www.darrellmartinbooks.com

This discussion was a good one and about several topics that I am so incredibly passionate about: women's choice of care, midwives, evidence-based birth practices, and better birth outcomes. Dr. Darrell Martin shared so many fascinating stories and talked to us all about his experience advocating for women's choice in healthcare, his support of midwives, and the five key roles of midwives in creating a safe birthing environment. I was smiling from ear to ear throughout our entire conversation because I kept thinking, "YES! This doctor GETS IT." And I want everyone to know what he knows and his story. Who is Dr. Darrell Martin? Dr. Darrell Martin is a gynecologist and a dedicated healthcare advocate with four decades of expertise in women's health. His dedication to patient care and choice propelled him to testify before Congress, championing the rights of Certified Nurse Midwives and advocating for patients' freedom to select their healthcare providers. A standout moment in his career was his fervent support for nurse-midwifery in Nashville, Tennessee, showcasing his commitment to advancing the profession. Additionally, Dr. Martin takes great pride in having played a pivotal role in more than 5,000 births, marking a legacy of life and joy he has helped bring into the world. What Did We Discuss? In this episode, we chat with Dr. Darrell Martin about midwifery and the five key roles of midwives in creating a safe birthing environment. Here are several of the questions that we covered in our conversation: How did you become passionate about women's health, midwifery, and patient rights?  Please give us a brief explanation of what a midwife is and what their role encompasses in the context of childbirth. Also, to our listeners, tune in to our episode #43: What is a Midwife? for more information! In your opinion, how is the role of a midwife different from an OB/GYN when it comes to childbirth? Please tell us about the five key roles of midwives in creating a safe birthing environment. How do you believe midwives contribute to a positive birthing experience for individuals and their families? What are some common challenges or misconceptions that midwives face in their practice? How do you see the role of midwives evolving in the future of childbirth? It was a pure delight chatting with Dr. Martin about midwifery care and his beliefs about women's care and childbirth. His passion, perseverance, and commitment to evidence-based, patient-centered care are leading to meaningful change, and we hope to see more of it! Dr. Martin's Resources Website: darrellmartinbooks.com Book: Thank you for listening to this episode! Follow us on our podcast Instagram page @thebabychickchat, and let us know what you think and if there are any other topics you'd like us to cover. Cheers to midwifery and safe, beautiful births!! (GO TO SHOW NOTES FOR MORE!) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Doctors and midwives are invaluable complements for any care team, especially during pregnancy. From childbirth to emergency surgery to everything in between, many women work with both to get the best care possible. Learn how Certified Nurse Midwives, or CNMs, and OB/GYN physicians collaborate in labor and delivery to provide the best hospital patient care.

Certified Nurse Midwives, all moms themselves, Rachel Maio, Nicky Schwanz, Erin Morris DeFields, and Marianne Stroud share their best professional and personal tips for successful breastfeeding including getting a good latch, supply issues, when and how to use a pump, overcoming hurdles like tongue/lip ties and birth injuries, and who to ask for help.Fertility and Midwifery Care CenterHoly Family Birth Center

This episode is a highlight reel from this week's full episode.WANT THE FULL EPISODE?Check out yesterday's episode, or download it directly: https://api.spreaker.com/v2/episodes/50986970/download.mp3What is the driving factor in your decisions?Oftentimes, coercion, systemization, media, and administrations influence our actions whether we take notice or not. Dr. Stu Fischbein, Community-Based Obstetrician, shares the importance of shared decision-making, informed choice, and allowing space for independent, instinctual decisions in his practice as an OBGYN.KEY TOPICS- Independence from institutions as a method of making less-biased decisions- Coercion as an unethical decision-making technique- Not relying on policies or assumed rules to make decisions for you- Informed consent- Shared decision-making- Risk management when making decisionsCONNECT WITH USDecidedlypodcast.comInstagram: @decidedlypodcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/decidedlypodcastShawn's Instagram: @shawn_d_smith Sanger's Instagram: @sangersmith MAKING A FINANCIAL DECISION?At Decidedly Wealth Management, we focus on decision-making as the foundational element of success, in our effort to empower families to purposefully apply their wealth to fulfill their values and build a thriving legacy.LEARN MORE: www.decidedlywealth.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/decidedlywealth/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DecidedlyWealth/Subscribe to our newsletter for weekly decision-making tips: https://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/manage/optin?v=001aeU_pPBHJPNJWJBdVbaci6bjGIuEJurH12xHBWDEVT_NxyCadMd7wLSZjcEZglkSjDjehuIbTHD8nABOIdV69ctfYpSzg24RCIytetBUrlIPPKgaGzjGZ8DkM0Wp1LMjbErcYUur7PbZGjeVo4gyXlz821AoJGZRJoin us every Wednesday for more strategies to DEFEAT bad decision-making - one episode at a time!MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODEStretch Lab: https://www.stretchlab.com/“The Knees Over Toes Guy”: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheKneesovertoesguyMorgan, the Decidedly Producer and also birth nerd: https://www.instagram.com/morganmckittrick/“A Bugs Life”, Go Around the Leaf: https://youtu.be/qTQJdGp4F34American College of OBGYN, referenced by Dr. Stu: https://www.acog.org/Dr. Emily Oster's book, “Expecting Better”: https://www.amazon.com/Expecting-Better-Conventional-Pregnancy-Wisdom/dp/B08SJDP2CW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=32BF78JHUV89E&keywords=expecting+better&qid=1661107085&sprefix=expecting+bette%2Caps%2C181&sr=8-1Our episode with Dr. Emily Oster, Ep.20: https://api.spreaker.com/v2/episodes/48357122/download.mp3ABOUT DR. STUWebsite: www.birthinginstincts.comInstagram: @birthinginstinctsFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/drstuspodcastDr. Stu's Podcast with Blyss Young, “Birthing Instincts”: https://open.spotify.com/show/5IYrdNqDATUbK7FDAk2EKcStuart James Fischbein, MD was Board Certified in 1989 and became a Fellow of the American College of Obstetrics & Gynecology in 1990. He has been a practicing obstetrician in Southern California since completing his residency in 1986. While well trained at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in the standard medical model of obstetrics he had the respect and vision to support the midwifery model of care and served as a backup consultant to many home and birthing center midwives for 25 years. In 1996 he founded The Woman's Place for Health, Inc., a collaborative hospital-based practice of Certified Nurse Midwives and Obstetricians in Ventura County, California. In 2004, Dr. Fischbein co-authored the book, “Fearless Pregnancy, Wisdom & Reassurance from a Doctor, a Midwife and a Mom.” For his efforts he has been awarded the Doulas Association of Southern California (DASC) Physician of the year award three times and, in 2008, was the very first recipient of DASC's lifetime achievement award in support of pregnant women. He has spoken internationally on breech and vaginal birth after cesarean section and has appeared in many documentaries, including: “More Business of Being Born”, “Happy Healthy Child”, “Reducing Infant Mortality”, “Heads Up: The Disappearing Art of Vaginal Breech Delivery” and multiple YouTube videos discussing birth choices and respect for patient autonomy and decision making.Dr. Fischbein now practices community-based birthing and works directly with home birthing midwives www.birthinginstincts.com to offer hope for those women who prefer and respect a natural birthing environment and cannot find supportive practitioners for VBAC, twin and breech deliveries. He is an outspoken advocate of informed decision making, the midwifery model of care and human rights in childbirth, receiving the 2016 “Most Audacious” award from HRIC and the Association for Wholistic & Newborn Health. Hear more of his thoughts and advocacy for evidenced-based, reasonable choices on his podcast. He is a preceptor for midwifery students from Nizhoni, NMI, NCM and Georgetown University School of Midwifery. He is the primary author of threepeer-reviewed papers; 1) Homebirth with an Obstetrician, A Series of 135 Out of Hospital Births 2) Breech birth at home: outcomes of 60 breech and 109 cephalic planned home and birth center birth3) Case Report: A Maneuver for Head Entanglement in Term Breech/Vertex Twins. Dr. Fischbein still actively cares for pregnant women while teaching hands-on seminars on breech birth around the globe. He has the goals of improving collaboration amongst the differing professions in the birthing world and the re-teaching of the core skills, such as breech and twin vaginal birth, that make the specialty of obstetrics unique.

What is the driving factor in your decisions?Oftentimes, coercion, systemization, media, and administrations influence our actions whether we take notice or not. Dr. Stu Fischbein, Community-Based Obstetrician, shares the importance of shared decision-making, informed choice, and allowing space for independent, instinctual decisions in his practice as an OBGYN.KEY TOPICS- Independence from institutions as a method of making less-biased decisions- Coercion as an unethical decision-making technique- Not relying on policies or assumed rules to make decisions for you- Informed consent- Shared decision-making- Risk management when making decisionsDon't have time for the full episode?Check out the 15-minute highlight reel from our conversation with Dr. Stu: https://api.spreaker.com/v2/episodes/51017032/download.mp3CONNECT WITH USDecidedlypodcast.comInstagram: @decidedlypodcast Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/decidedlypodcastShawn's Instagram: @shawn_d_smith Sanger's Instagram: @sangersmith MAKING A FINANCIAL DECISION?At Decidedly Wealth Management, we focus on decision-making as the foundational element of success, in our effort to empower families to purposefully apply their wealth to fulfill their values and build a thriving legacy.LEARN MORE: www.decidedlywealth.comInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/decidedlywealth/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DecidedlyWealth/Subscribe to our newsletter for weekly decision-making tips: https://visitor.r20.constantcontact.com/manage/optin?v=001aeU_pPBHJPNJWJBdVbaci6bjGIuEJurH12xHBWDEVT_NxyCadMd7wLSZjcEZglkSjDjehuIbTHD8nABOIdV69ctfYpSzg24RCIytetBUrlIPPKgaGzjGZ8DkM0Wp1LMjbErcYUur7PbZGjeVo4gyXlz821AoJGZRJoin us every Wednesday for more strategies to DEFEAT bad decision-making - one episode at a time!MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODEStretch Lab: https://www.stretchlab.com/“The Knees Over Toes Guy”: https://www.youtube.com/c/TheKneesovertoesguyMorgan, the Decidedly Producer and also birth nerd: https://www.instagram.com/morganmckittrick/“A Bugs Life”, Go Around the Leaf: https://youtu.be/qTQJdGp4F34American College of OBGYN, referenced by Dr. Stu: https://www.acog.org/Dr. Emily Oster's book, “Expecting Better”: https://www.amazon.com/Expecting-Better-Conventional-Pregnancy-Wisdom/dp/B08SJDP2CW/ref=sr_1_1?crid=32BF78JHUV89E&keywords=expecting+better&qid=1661107085&sprefix=expecting+bette%2Caps%2C181&sr=8-1Our episode with Dr. Emily Oster, Ep.20: https://api.spreaker.com/v2/episodes/48357122/download.mp3ABOUT DR. STUWebsite: www.birthinginstincts.comInstagram: @birthinginstinctsFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/drstuspodcastDr. Stu's Podcast with Blyss Young, “Birthing Instincts”: https://open.spotify.com/show/5IYrdNqDATUbK7FDAk2EKcStuart James Fischbein, MD was Board Certified in 1989 and became a Fellow of the American College of Obstetrics & Gynecology in 1990. He has been a practicing obstetrician in Southern California since completing his residency in 1986. While well trained at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in the standard medical model of obstetrics he had the respect and vision to support the midwifery model of care and served as a backup consultant to many home and birthing center midwives for 25 years. In 1996 he founded The Woman's Place for Health, Inc., a collaborative hospital-based practice of Certified Nurse Midwives and Obstetricians in Ventura County, California. In 2004, Dr. Fischbein co-authored the book, “Fearless Pregnancy, Wisdom & Reassurance from a Doctor, a Midwife and a Mom.” For his efforts he has been awarded the Doulas Association of Southern California (DASC) Physician of the year award three times and, in 2008, was the very first recipient of DASC's lifetime achievement award in support of pregnant women. He has spoken internationally on breech and vaginal birth after cesarean section and has appeared in many documentaries, including: “More Business of Being Born”, “Happy Healthy Child”, “Reducing Infant Mortality”, “Heads Up: The Disappearing Art of Vaginal Breech Delivery” and multiple YouTube videos discussing birth choices and respect for patient autonomy and decision making.Dr. Fischbein now practices community-based birthing and works directly with home birthing midwives www.birthinginstincts.com to offer hope for those women who prefer and respect a natural birthing environment and cannot find supportive practitioners for VBAC, twin and breech deliveries. He is an outspoken advocate of informed decision making, the midwifery model of care and human rights in childbirth, receiving the 2016 “Most Audacious” award from HRIC and the Association for Wholistic & Newborn Health. Hear more of his thoughts and advocacy for evidenced-based, reasonable choices on his podcast. He is a preceptor for midwifery students from Nizhoni, NMI, NCM and Georgetown University School of Midwifery. He is the primary author of threepeer-reviewed papers; 1) Homebirth with an Obstetrician, A Series of 135 Out of Hospital Births 2) Breech birth at home: outcomes of 60 breech and 109 cephalic planned home and birth center birth3) Case Report: A Maneuver for Head Entanglement in Term Breech/Vertex Twins. Dr. Fischbein still actively cares for pregnant women while teaching hands-on seminars on breech birth around the globe. He has the goals of improving collaboration amongst the differing professions in the birthing world and the re-teaching of the core skills, such as breech and twin vaginal birth, that make the specialty of obstetrics unique.

How can you help your doula clients feel comfortable advocating for themselves in an environment that pushes total compliance?In this episode, Dr. Stuart Fischbein (from Birthing Instincts) and I will be talking about the many issues within the hospital model of care.It's no secret that there are large systems of power in the hospital system, which is why many doctors keep their heads buried in the sand when they see unethical policies put in place. Dr. Stu has been a practicing OBGYN for the last 34 years. He advocates for informed decision-making and specializes in natural birth for VBAC, twin, and breech deliveries. He founded The Woman's Place for Health, Inc., a collaborative hospital-based practice of Certified Nurse Midwives and Obstetricians in Ventura County, California. He co-authored the book, “Fearless Pregnancy, Wisdom & Reassurance from a Doctor, a Midwife and a Mom.”, and has appeared in several documentaries, including: “More Business of Being Born”, “Happy Healthy Child”, “Reducing Infant Mortality”, and “Heads Up: The Disappearing Art of Vaginal Breech Delivery”. Dr. Fischbein also runs “The Birthing Instincts” podcast with midwife Blyss Young, where they discuss evidence-based decision-making in birth. If you're tired of overreaching hospital policies, then you might want to listen up!Follow Dr. Fischbein on Instagram @birthinginstincts or visit his website: http://www.birthinginstincts.com  Resources mentioned:Watch Candace Owens's “A Shot in the Dark”Check out The Highwire with Del BigtreeWatch the “Why Not Home” documentaryLook through Paul Thomas's research   Ready to turn your passion for birth into a crazy successful doula career? I've got you. Click here and join me inside Birthworker Academy.Check out this episode's full show notes or read the transcript at www.birthworker.com/4 or follow along over on Instagram @theautonomymommy or @birthworkerpodcastIf this episode lights you up, I'd love it if you'd rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening from. After you review the show - snap a pic and upload it here - and I'll send you a little surprise as a thank you.Your feedback helps this podcast grow and I wouldn't be here if it weren't for you!

Dr. Stephen Bashuk discusses the important relationship between OB/GYNs and Certified Nurse-Midwives, or CNMs, providing his perspective as an OB hospitalist who works with both hospital-based CNMs and community CNMs.

In this episode of Mountain Land Physical Therapy's pelvic health Podcast we discuss certified nurse midwives and how they assist with the pregnancy, labor, delivery and post-partum phases of a woman's birth journey. Today's guest today is Ashleigh Taylor, a certified professional midwife and licensed direct entry midwife. She attended the midwife college of Utah and graduated in 2021. She purchased Birth Journey in Salt Lake City, Utah February of… The post Certified Nurse Midwives and the Birth Journey first appeared on Mountain Land Physical Therapy & Rehabilitation.

Stuart Fischbein, MD was Board Certified in 1989 and became a Fellow of the American College of Obstetrics & Gynecology in 1990. He has been a practicing obstetrician in Southern California since completing his residency in 1986. His practice upholds the midwifery model of care. He has served as a backup consultant to many home and birthing center midwives for 25 years. In 1996 he founded The Woman's Place for Health, Inc., a collaborative hospital-based practice of Certified Nurse Midwives and Obstetricians in Ventura County, California. Stu is the author of a book and a variety of papers on home birth. Dr. Fischbein has been the recipient of a variety of awards. He has spoken internationally on breech and vaginal birth after cesarean section and has appeared in many documentaries. He is an outspoken advocate of informed decision making, the midwifery model of care and human rights in childbirth. He has the goals of improving collaboration amongst the differing professions in the birthing world and the re-teaching of the core skills, such as breech and twin vaginal birth, that make the specialty of obstetrics unique. [00:05:38] - Inadequacies of residency training [00:09:14] - Why Stu went into the practice of OBGYN [00:17:14] - Sentimental feelings from most midwives around the country [00:17:45] - Dr. Stu's practices [00:26:51] - My Birth Experience of Twins [00:35:41] - Dr. Stu's advice to women [00:37:25] - Medical Freedom (Covid, Vaccines and more) [01:05:16] - Oral Boards [01:12:32] - What are Dr. Stu's future plans? References & Links: Birthing Instincts - Website, Podcast, Instagram, Facebook, Twitter Stu's papers: Homebirth with an Obstetrician, A Series of 135 Out of Hospital Births Breech birth at home: outcomes of 60 breech and 109 cephalic planned home and birth center birth Case Report: A Maneuver for Head Entanglement in Term Breech/Vertex Twins. Stu's book: “Fearless Pregnancy, Wisdom & Reassurance from a Doctor, a Midwife and a Mom.” Evidence Based Birth, Ep #204: Refuting the Spread of Misinformation Online About COVID, with Dr. Stacy De-Lin Big thanks to our sponsor! Waveblock: https://www.waveblock.com (Use Code “BELOVED” for 10% offon their EMF-blocking technologies) Show Notes | Donate Music by: Labrinth, Chancha Via Circuito, and Joaquín Cornejo --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/theholisticobgyn/message

On today’s show, a new law passed by the Arkansas Legislature gives Certified Nurse Midwives broad medical authority. Plus, our weekly dip into history with the Pryor Center archives lands in September, 1971. Also a conversation by Editor-in-Chief and host of Talk Business & Politics Roby Brock with Arkansas U.S. Senator Tom Cotton on a run for the White House, President Biden's plan to remove U.S. troops from Afghanistan by September 11th, and more.

Kelli started out pregnancy care with an OB, but after feeling unsettled with that choice, she made the switch to hospital based midwives in her area. Her labor with her first baby began with 18 hours of back labor. Following her chiropractic adjustment, she and her husband stopped in at the midwifery office, where she was now 8.5cm, and her waters broke in the room. They went over to the hospital and got stuck in triage and the business office. Once in a room, she got into the birthing tub, and when the midwife realized the nurse wasn't going to make it back in time, she asked Kyle to catch the baby.  Postpartum with Keegan was cut short after finding out they were unexpectedly pregnant with Kate. This time, they were hoping to have Kate at the birth center with the same midwives, but Kate came too quickly for them to make it there. She was born at home, healthy and safe, with Kelli's mom stepping in to act as the midwife, and required a short hospital stay to get checked out and allow for her to work out some of her fluids. With her third pregnancy, Kelli planned a home birth and practically explained the differences in OB, CNM (hospital-based Certified Nurse Midwives) and CPM (Certified Professional Midwife) care. Her friend Rebecca was her doula, and Kelli experienced her most peaceful birth.  She encourages new and expectant mamas to talk through their desires for birth and to change providers, if their hearts are unsettled with the care they're receiving, and to also learn to advocate for themselves.  -- In this segment of Meet the Birth Worker, we're meeting with Leah Kilmer of Loving Birth Doula Services. She serves women in the Upstate of South Carolina. You can find her at facebook.com/doulaleahdawn or email her at leahdawnkilmer@gmail.com.Links Mentioned: Dr. Cara Davis at Healthyfor Life ChiropracticCarrie LaChapelle Craft of HatchedHypnobabiesBradley Method‍Leah Kilmer, Loving Birth Doula Services

Quick Announcement for EHR listeners! For a limited time Matt Blackburn is giving Extreme Health Radio show listeners 25% off his line of products. Just enter code EHR25 at checkout while it lasts! Dr. Stuart Fishbein is our OBGYN and our plan was to have him assist us in our natural home birth of our twins Will and Ben. We went through the entire pregnancy with him. A listener turned us onto him in our first month and we had already gone to see another OBGYN and the difference was night and day. Unfortunately here in California natural birthing centers are not allowed to offer their services if you have twins. So that left us only two options. Have a hospital birth which we didn't want to do or have a home birth with no midwife or doctor. Midwives here in California are required to have a medical doctor be present. So that left us either the hospital or me alone at home with Kate. Then a wonderful listener saved the day by letting us know about Dr. Stu. The first OBGYN we saw was supposedly more "naturally minded" (ya right) but he was egotistical and thought he was God's gift to mankind. When we met Dr. Stu it was a breath of fresh air! To have a medical doctor like him with a team of midwives at home was the best option ever! Here are some of the topics we covered... Vbac Breech Vaccines Circumcision Herd immunity Placenta Benefits of home birth Dangers of hospital birth C-sections Pregnancy tips Thanks for listening! Please share it with a friend! Tag us on Instagram and let me know what you think! I hope you enjoy! One final thing! Thank you for bookmarking our Amazon link and shopping through our ever expanding store. Without your ongoing help, we wouldn't be able to make this possible. :) Sponsor For This Episode: Relax FAR Infrared Sauna Greenwave Dirty Electricity Filters Stylish Blue Blocking Glasses Iris Blocking Software Enzymes from Mitolife HypoAir - The Best Air Purification Systems We've Found! Bellicon rebounder Products Related To This Episode: Joovv Red Light Therapy Devices Greenwave dirty electicity filters Stockton Aloe One Blue blocking glasses Magnetico sleep pad Scalar energy rest shield Daily Qigong Course Chaga mushrooms Surthrival Colostrum BARF Raw Dog Food Xtrema Cookware Medical Biomats Chemical Free Organic Skincare! Show Notes N/A Please Subscribe: Subscribe To Our Radio Show For Updates! Listen to other shows with this guest. Guest Bio Dr. Stuart Fischbein, MD OB/GYN has been in private practice of Obstetrics and Gynecology in Southern California since 1986. He graduated from the University of Minnesota Medical School in 1982. He has a long history of support for Midwives and the alternative to the medical model of birth they provide. This interest began during his Cedars-Sinai residency where he had extensive training in vaginal breech and twin delivery and was selected as administrative chief resident and awarded house officer of the year. His experience was enhanced while rotating through LA County-USC Medical Center, at that time the busiest obstetric unit in the country, where he had the good fortune to be exposed to the midwifery model of obstetrical care. Early in his private practice career he was approached by several local “Licensed Midwives” to provide back-up support for women choosing alternatives to hospital based birthing. In 1995 he co-founded, The Woman's Place, Inc., an innovative model of collaboration between Certified Nurse Midwives and Obstetricians, in Ventura County. In 2004, he co-authored, Fearless Pregnancy, Wisdom and Reassurance from a Doctor, a Midwife and a Mom, (Fair Winds Press, 2004, 2nd Edition 2010) with long time associate, Joyce Weckl, CNM; and writer, Victoria Clayton. He has three times been awarded Physician of the Year by the Doulas Association of Southern California and in 2008 received their first Lifetime Achievement Award.

Another soup episode! Well, it's wintertime. Nate ZOOMs with Certified Nurse Midwives, Lauren Andronici and Kate Fields. They discuss IUDs, clam juice, Salmon Soup, and the 2001 cult classic "Wet Hot American Summer". #WetHotAmericanSummer #ClamJuice #DinnerAndAMovie #SoupRecipes #PaulRudd #AmyPoehler #ChristopherMeloni #Midwives #MidwifeLife #SalmonRecipes --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/dinnerwithnate/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/dinnerwithnate/support

Season 1 Episode 5 features an interview with Carmen Mojica. We discuss her journey into birthwork and motherhood, the history and current practice of midwifery, and what it will take to achieve birth justice in the Bronx and in New York City. Carmen Mojica Bio:Carmen Mojica CPM, LM CLC is an Afro-Dominicana born and raised in the Bronx. She is a midwife, mother, writer and reproductive health activist. The focus of her work is on the empowerment of women and people of the African Diaspora, specifically discussing the Afro-Latina identity. She utilizes her experience as a midwife to raise awareness on maternal and infant health for women, highlighting the disparities in the healthcare system in the United States for women of color. She is a cofounder of Bronx Rebirth and Progress.References During the Episode:Donate to Bronx Rebirth and Progress via PayPal and through their registry on TargetPregnancy and Postpartum in the time of COVID-19: NYC Resources[Book] Birthing Justice: Black Women, Pregnancy and Childbirth edited by Julia Oparah and Alicia Bonaparte[Book] Killing the Black Body by Dorothy Roberts[Book] Medical Apartheid by Harriet Washington[Book] Born in the USA: How a Broken Maternity System Must Be Fixed to Put Women and Children First by Marsden WagnerTypes of midwives: Certified Midwife, Certified Nurse Midwife, Certified Professional Midwife, Certifying institutions: American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG), American College of Nurse-Midwives (ACNM)Robert Woods Johnson Foundation's County Health Rankings and Road MapsQuestions to Consider After the Episode:How can we make midwifery more accessible in our City, namely Certified Nurse Midwives? What are ways our City can provide resources for people to give birth outside of hospitals? This can be in people's homes and in birthing centers.How can we shift conversations that focus solely on maternal mortality to take a look at the broad scope of how maternal healthcare is not serving the needs of pregnant and birthing people overall?Created and Hosted by Taja LindleyProduced by Colored Girls HustleMusic, Soundscape and Audio Engineering by Emma AlabasterSupport our work on Patreon or make a one-time payment via PayPalFor more information visit BirthJustice.nyc This podcast is made possible, in part, by the Narrative Power Stipend - a grant funded by Forward Together for members of Echoing Ida.Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/TajaLindley)

Listen to Dr. Allie in conversation with Dr. Stuart Fischbein, who is an OB/GYN, as they speak on Pregnancy, Giving Birth and Home Births during the COVID-19 pandemic. Stuart James Fischbein, MD was Board Certified in 1989 and became a Fellow of the American College of Obstetrics & Gynecology in 1990. He has been a practicing obstetrician in Southern California since completing his residency in 1986. While well trained at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in the standard medical model of obstetrics he had the respect and vision to support the midwifery model of care and served as a backup consultant to many home and birthing center midwives for 25 years. In 1996 he founded The Woman's Place for Health, Inc., a collaborative hospital-based practice of Certified Nurse Midwives and Obstetricians in Ventura County, California. In 2004, Dr. Fischbein co-authored the book, “Fearless Pregnancy, Wisdom & Reassurance from a Doctor, a Midwife and a Mom” www.fearlesspregnancy.net . For his efforts he has been awarded the Doulas Association of Southern California (DASC) Physician of the year award three times and, in 2008, was the very first recipient of DASC's lifetime achievement award in support of pregnant women. He has spoken internationally on breech and vaginal birth after cesarean section and has appeared in many documentaries, including: “More Business of Being Born”, “Happy Healthy Child”, “Reducing Infant Mortality”, “Heads Up: The Disappearing Art of Vaginal Breech Delivery” and multiple youtube videos discussing birth choices and respect for patient autonomy and decision making. Dr. Fischbein now practices community based birthing and works directly with home birthing midwives www.birthinginstincts.com to offer hope for those women who prefer and respect a natural birthing environment and cannot find supportive practitioners for VBAC, twin and breech deliveries. He is an outspoken advocate of informed decision making, the midwifery model of care and human rights in childbirth, receiving the 2016 “Most Audacious” award from HRIC and the Association for Wholistic & Newborn Health. Hear more of his thoughts and advocacy for evidenced-based, reasonable choices on his podcast at www.drstuspodcast.com. He is a preceptor for midwifery students from Nizhoni, NMI, NCM and Georgetown University School of Midwifery. Please note that the contents of Coping with COVID-19 are for informational purposes only. The content is not intended to be a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your mental health professional or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding your condition. Never disregard professional advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on COPING WITH COVID-19. The views expressed by guests are their own and their appearance on the podcast does not imply an endorsement of them or any entity they represent. As always, if you are in crisis or you think you may have an emergency, call your doctor or 911 immediately. If you're having suicidal thoughts, call 1-800-273-TALK (8255) to talk to a skilled, trained counselor at a crisis center in your area at any time (National Suicide Prevention Lifeline). If you are located outside the United States, call your local emergency line immediately. Thank you for listening to Coping with COVID-19 by Dr. Allie. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

Join us in discussing how the COVID-19 pandemic may affect your labor and birth. Our guests are Michelle Helgeson, CNM, MPH and Marianne Pelletier, CNM. Both currently practicing midwives...Michelle works in a hospital and has worked over many years in many different hospitals as well as a birth center. Marianne is a homebirth midwife who has many years of experience working in hospitals and a birth center.What kind of screening might you encounter? What restrictions are different hospitals putting in place as far as having partners with laboring parents, tubs, use of birth balls, walking around the hallways, using nitrous oxide, leaving the hospital sooner postpartum? Is trying to switch to a homebirth a feasible option or not? How has birth changed due to the pandemic (hospital, home, birth center)? We'll also answer questions from those who participated in the recorded call, as well.

In today’s episode, Nicole and Shanna sit down and talk with Meredith Wu - Certified Nurse-Midwife at Northwestern Medicine. We learn about the different types of midwives - Certified Nurse-Midwife (CNM), Certified Midwife, and Certified Professional Midwife (CPM). We also learn that midwives aren’t just attending to pregnant women - they can essentially be a replacement to your OB-gyn at any age or life stage. We do dive into the experience of working with a midwife vs. an OB for a pregnancy, and the fact that only 9% of births in the US are attended by them - a stark difference to the model of care in say the UK. In the “You Want Me To Do What??” section, Nicole goes into detail about her experience having two kids under the care of the midwife practice. She details the experience from the standpoint of an unmedicated birth, and talks about things you should think about if you do want to go that route.  Episode Recap: Interview with Meredith - 1:35  “You Want Me To Do What??” section - 35:18 Highlights: Midwives are an option for your gynecological care, and tend to take a more women centered approach when working with their patients There are three most common types of midwives - Certified Nurse-Midwife (CNM), Certified Midwife, and Certified Professional Midwife (CPM), with Certified Nurse-Midwives being the large majority in the USA 9% of births in the US are attended by midwives - a stark difference to the model of care in some European countries Nicole had her two children under the care of a midwife practice, and talks about her experience going through pregnancy with them as well as having unmedicated labors Resources: Where to find Meredith: https://680obgyn.nm.org/ Midwife Stats, American College of Nurse Midwives: https://www.midwife.org/acnm/files/cclibraryfiles/filename/000000007531/EssentialFactsAboutMidwives-UPDATED.pdf

Episode 1: Holly & Jayme talk about their "Why" In the very first podcast episode, you will "meet" the hosts of the podcast; Holly & Jayme. They talk about how they met, and why each of them got into birth work. They also discuss the reasons they feel so strongly about spreading the message of "peace on earth begins before birth".  Holly and Jayme share how they want to present birthing families with all of the options they have regarding their parenting journey by interviewing guests from all different perspectives on pregnancy, birth and parenting. Their goal is to present lots of options so families can make the best informed choices for their unique family situations. Holly Lammer: BSN, RNC, RYT-500, RPYT, PPNE When I became pregnant with my first child my life changed forever. It was revealed to me like a lightning strike (seriously) that I needed to work with the miracle of birth.  Since then (nursing degree and several specialty certifications later), I have advocated for policy and practice change in the hospital to support physiologic, peaceful birth. I research, propose, lecture, develop educational modules and present to leadership, doctors, nurses... whoever will listen to me! This is why I consider myself an activist.  According to Webster’s dictionary, activism is “a doctrine or practice that emphasizes direct vigorous action especially in support of or opposition to one side of a controversial issue.”  Believe it or not, birth is a controversial issue. No matter where you live, the color of your skin, your income level, your gender or your religious affiliation, accurate information about the importance of gestation, birth and the first year of life can be difficult to find. Talk to ten different people and you will get ten different views on what is best to do for you and your baby during pregnancy and birth. It is an absolute fact that that the womb environment, birth, and early childhood experience plays a major role in lifelong health and wellbeing…  for many generations to come.   The combination of my experience watching thousands of women give birth;  noticing what worked and what didn't work so well, hours of research and study in physiologic birth; combined with my own mindfulness practice which has changed my life profoundly, has prompted me to develop something different for pregnant women and families. This journey has developed into a passion: researching the evidence and science behind the contemplative practices and how they support fetal growth, bonding, parenting and generally speaking a more peaceful world.  You can learn more about Holly here: www.embryoga.com Jayme Crockett: Birth Photographer, Doula & Student Midwife My love for all things birth began 23 years ago when I was pregnant with my 1st son. I was fascinated with the physiology of birth and read everything I could get my hands on during my pregnancy. I was so prepared for labor and delivery but no one explained to me how everything would change the minute they laid him in my arms. I was a mother! I was overcome with a love I had never experienced before.  I went on to birth 7 more babies in 3 different countries. I have had home-births, hospital-births and water-births. My passion for birth has grown with each pregnancy. I am in awe of the beauty and strength women possess during this season of life. I feel so strongly that every woman sees themselves as beautiful and strong too, that is why I have chosen to be a Birth Photographer!  When I was pregnant with my first son, I was lucky enough to have a super cool woman teach my birth class. I was so fascinated with the information she shared with me. I will forever be grateful that as a young, pregnant 17 year old she encouraged me to not fear birth, but to embrace it and be empowered by it.  I am so excited about this podcast because I think every woman deserves to know this truth. My hope is that we will walk together through this parenting journey, connecting and learning from each other and the knowledgeable guests we have planned. You can learn more about Jayme here: www.TribeBirth.com Sponsor: Kristi Rhodes from Idaho Stork talks about seafood safety in pregnancy Today’s episode was brought to you by Idaho Stork.  Idaho Stork’s health care team is small and dedicated. They support a choice in care models and believe that it's best to know their patients, attend their own deliveries, and provide care for their families for years to come. The Idaho Stork team is made up of Dr. Glen Lovelace, an Ob/GYN, Kristi Rhodes and Megan Kitterman, Certified Nurse-Midwives, and Angela Latta, a Nurse Practitioner. https://www.idahostork.com/

Discussion with 2 Certified Nurse Midwives talking about Midwifery care in chilbirth and beyond. --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

  Thank you to our sponsors: Hatched at Home-Midwife Carrie LaChapelle: www.hatchedathome.com https://www.facebook.com/MidwifeCarrieLachapelleLMCPM/ 864-907-6363 Stephanie Sibbio’s Glowing Mama To Be Course: www.myhappyhomebirth.com/glowingmamacourse  (15% off with the code: happyhomebirth15 ) Instagram: stephsibbiofitness   Show Notes: Sarah and her husband have been together for 10 years now, and have lived all over the world. She has two children: Manning and Alex Sarah’s first birth was in a birth center setting. As a child and teen, she never had exposure to out-of-hospital birth.  However, her mother did refuse epidurals, chose to breastfeed (in the 80’s- when breastfeeding was going through quite an uncommon spell). Sarah and her husband had their eyes opened to the idea of natural childbirth outside of the hospital. “Birth is a natural, healthy process. There’s no need for it to take place in a hospital.” Of course, hospitals can be a fine place to give birth- and especially important for emergencies, but Sarah certainly sees the benefit of the out-of-hospital experience. Her first birth, which took place in Alaska, was attended by a number of Certified Nurse Midwives, as well as Certified Professional Midwives. Sarah’s first birth was long- 36 hours from her first contraction until baby was born. Sarah’s friend attended her birth as her very first doula training birth, and now she is a very successful midwife! Sarah’s midwife, after quite a while, called her directing midwife to check and see if all was well, or if they needed to transport. The head midwife came and assessed the situation, saying that all was well and a transport was not necessary.  The setup of this birth center is incredible: Being able to call other providers to come help and support, even though her original midwife did stay all the way until the very end. Sarah and Katelyn discuss the “what if’s” of had she gone into the hospital at the time she went to the birth center, she very possibly could have ended up with a c-section. Sarah’s second child, Alex, was quite a surprise! Sarah began searching for options in Mississippi, where midwifery is not regulated.  Certified Nurse Midwives are unable to practice outside of the hospital at all.  Luckily, Sarah was able to locate a CPM in the lower part of the state of Mississippi. At least at that time, she was the only CPM that Sarah could find who resided in Mississippi. “She had not only a level of training, but also a level of accountability that I appreciated.” -Sarah on selecting a CPM This midwife does not take on many clients, and even more difficultly, she lived 3 hours away from Sarah. Upon agreement of working as her care provider, her midwife required Sarah have an OB backup care provider who would be able and willing to take care of her in a hospital should any situation arise.  Having an OB backup made Sarah feel even more comfortable with the process, and it helped space her visits out, especially towards the end. She was able to see her OB for some of the prenatals as they got closer together, allowing her not to have to drive the 6 hour round trip drive bi-weekly and weekly.  Her OB would not officially condone her blessing for Sarah having a homebirth, but she did not try to strong-arm her into the hospital setting, which was quite a relief for Sarah. Sarah and Katelyn touch on the accountability of a CPM and how these care providers are held to a certain standard based on their credential- no matter what their state regulations may be. This allows for consistency and trust between midwife and clients. Before committing to using a midwife, Sarah toured the local hospital first and met with an OB practice. The pamphlet that they gave her stated two things that made her very uncomfortable: 1. Patients could not eat or drink during labor (this would not be feasible if she had another long labor like last time) and 2. Photography was not allowed during the birthing process.  This made Sarah feel very unhappy and uncertain, especially because some of her most precious photos she has are directly during and after the birth of her first child.  She sent a picture of the pamphlet to her husband without mentioning her concerns, and he immediately responded saying that was not going to work for them! When it came to estimating her due date, there was a small level of uncertainty on Sarah’s end, though she felt fairly confident about her dates. She measured along with her dates, too. However, when she had an ultrasound, the results said that she was actually about 2 weeks further along than expected. Based on Sarah’s calculated due date, Alex came 2 weeks early, though based on the ultrasound estimation, he came right at 40 weeks. As labor approached, Sarah did not notice much different in her level of activity. However, when she looks back, she realizes, “I did actually clean out my car and my husband’s truck and install the baby seat!” Alex was born very quickly. She went to bed on Sunday night with no indication that anything was coming.  Around 11:45, she went to the bathroom and though, “Oh, what was that?  Did I pee myself?  Nope, something’s definitely still coming out… oh, there’s more….”  She then realized her water had indeed broken.  Sarah called her midwife to let her know that her water had broken, and no, she was not having any contractions. Sarah called her mother who was in Dallas, and told her to head their way. Sarah’s midwife’s assistant, who lived about an hour away, began to head their way to check on Sarah. About an hour later, contractions started. By the time her birth assistant arrived, they were getting stronger, though she was able to still speak.  Sarah’s midwife arrived and was very pleased with the way she was progressing. At some point, Sarah got into the bath tub, which was helpful in some ways, but did not help with her back labor (which she had with both labors). Alex was born at 5:50 in the morning, so only about 6 hours of labor as opposed to 36! “My body eased me into labor and my brain was able to keep pace with what was going on.” Though Alex, like his brother Manning, came out with his hand up over his face, Sarah had no problems with the pushing phase. Once Alex arrived, Sarah found out that he was a boy! She had not wanted to know his gender beforehand.  However… Her husband Thomas had found out the gender earlier on in the pregnancy!  He was able to keep it a secret from Sarah for the remainder of the pregnancy! Alex was born on their anniversary! Back to the first birth: Early in the morning on New Year’s Day, Sarah began contracting. These were slow building, and they did not initially stop her from doing anything.  After a while they decided to go to the birthing center, and stayed there for the rest of the labor. Manning was in an awkward position, and Sarah had a cervical lip.  This all culminated in quite a long labor… and quite a lot of pushing.  Manning came out facing Sarah’s right side with his hand up by his face.   Episode Roundup: 1. Just because your labor is long or arduous the first time does not mean it will always be that way.  Each labor is different. 2. Sarah took the time to see out a CPM even when it was difficult.  She felt it important to have a certified midwife who is held to very specific standards, no matter what the state requires or does not require. 3. Disclaimer: I will begin adding a disclaimer at the beginning of each episode to remind you that the views expressed in these interviews are not necessarily my own, but this is a space for all to share their stories.  

Kayte and Piyar are two Certified Nurse Midwives joining the podcasting world. On this episode they will discuss midwives, their origins, and let us know what is the crisis, and how are we going to explore it in the future.

In today's podcast, we talk about the types of different home birth midwives in the U.S. This podcast will prep you to attend the free public webinar all about the evidence on home birth. To register for the webinar (only available through May 8, 2018), visit https://ebbirth.com/homebirthwebinar To learn more about the EBB Professional Membership, visit https://evidencebasedbirth.com/become-pro-member/ and visit EBB PDF library here:  http://evidencebasedbirthacademy.com/dashboard/pdf-library/   Here are the references we used to create today's podcast: American College of Nurse Midwives (2017). Comparison of Certified Nurse-Midwives, Certified Midwives, Certified Professional Midwives. Accessed online April 4, 2018. Available at: http://www.midwife.org/index.asp?bid=59&cat=12&button=Search&rec=254 The Big Push for Midwives (2018). CPMs Legal Status by State. Accessed online April 4, 2018. Available at: http://pushformidwives.nationbuilder.com/cpms_legal_status_by_state MacDorman, M. F. and Declercq, E. (2016). "Trends and Characteristics of United States Out-of-Hospital Births 2004-2014: New Information on Risk Status and Access to Care." Birth 43(2): 116-124. Click here. Midwives Alliance of North America (2016). About Midwives: Types of Midwives. Accessed online April 4, 2018. Available at: https://mana.org/about-midwives/types-of-midwife. Marzalik, P. R., Feltham, K. J., Jefferson, K., et al. (2018). "Midwifery education in the U.S. - Certified Nurse-Midwife, Certified Midwife and Certified Professional Midwife." Midwifery 60: 9-12. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29471175

In this episode Helen Noble, Associate Editor EBN, talks to Constance Guille, Medical University of South Carolina, about her recent article Telephone delivery of Interpersonal Psychotherapy by Certified Nurse-Midwives may help reduce symptoms of Postpartum Depression in EBN journal. Full article >> http://ebn.bmj.com/content/20/1/12

In this episode of Yoga | Birth | Babies, I speak with obstetrician, international speaker and author, Dr. Stuart Fischbein.  We speak about VBACs (vaginal births after cesareans), breech babies and twin vaginal births.  For pregnant women and birth workers, this podcast is not to be missed! Topics covered: What led Dr Fischbein to start to practice and support VBACs, breech, vaginal twin births.Why certain skills are no longer being taught to new obstetricians.Is the extinction of these skills is because hospitals would rather not see these procedures performed or the doctors prefer other methods or a combination of both.A discussion of the role of fear involved NOT with the mother, but with the care provider.  Does this influence how many OBs practice?VBACS! Reasons why a care provider may encourage their clients to steer away from a VBAC.Factors that would exclude a woman from trying a VBACBenefits of a VBACRisks of a VBACPerimeters that a woman should know who would like a VBAC- for example- how far past her due date should she negotiate? Does she need to be concerned with estimated fetal weight?What might make someone a good candidate for a VBAC.Deciphering if a care provider will really stand behind the mother’s choice to try a VBACBreech Babies!  Why many care providers are not performing vagina breech deliveries.The concerns of the care provider delivering breech babies.The risks of a breech vaginal birth.Does a BREECH vaginal birth require extra training that many doctors do not receive?Reasons a woman would not be able to attempt a vaginal breech birth.ECV (external cephalic version) and why a care may perform them or shy away from them.Twin vaginal births!  Reasons a care provider may discourage them.Questions to ask a care provider to decipher if they are truly behind your decision to move forward with a twin vaginal birth if baby A is head down.Factors that would exclude a woman from having a twin vaginal birth.Benefits of a vaginal twin birth.Risk of a vaginal twin birthTo listen to Dr. Stu’s Podcast visit: http://www.drstuspodcast.com/ On Facebook: @DrStuartFischbein On Twitter: @DrFischbein Dr. Stu’s Website: http://www.birthinginstincts.com/ The VBAC link Dr. Stu mentions: http://vbacfacts.com/ About Dr. Fischbein: Stuart James Fischbein, MD was Board Certified in 1989 and became a Fellow of the American College of Obstetrics & Gynecology in 1990. He has been a practicing obstetrician in Southern California since completing his residency in 1986. While well trained at Cedars-Sinai Medical Center in the standard medical model of obstetrics he had the respect and vision to support the midwifery model of care and served as a backup consultant to many home and birthing center midwives for 25 years. In 1996 he founded The Woman’s Place for Health, Inc., a collaborative practice of Certified Nurse Midwives and Obstetricians in Camarillo, California. In 2004, Dr. Fischbein co-authored the book, “Fearless Pregnancy, Wisdom & Reassurance from a Doctor, a Midwife and a Mom” www.fearlesspregnancy.net . For his efforts he  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Midwives are health care providers best known for caring for women through pregnancy and birth, but they also provide primary care to women of all ages – from puberty through the child-bearing years into menopause. Patricia Evans, certified nurse midwife with MemorialCare Medical Group, shares information on what women should know about know Midwives.