Podcasts about hypnobirthing

It's spicy Friday but on a Monday! In this episode Mel answers listener questions in this unscripted, off-the-cuff, unfiltered Q&A session submitted straight from her social media followers. She tackles burning birth questions and hot topics, including: 08:32 – To protect the perineum or not when pushing? How to know when to do it and when not to do it? 14:18 – How can we protect our oxytocin when transferring from home to hospital? 19:50 – Do you think that posterior labour that's not supported properly leads to unnecessary intervention and caesareans? 28:28 – How often is position breech missed resulting in a surprise breech birth?  44:13 – What's your view on the removal of the 5,000 hours for private midwives 49:20 – Why do midwives push on your uterus after birth with no warning or cause? Can I say no? 53:11 – Does birth impact breastfeeding? 55:16 – Does a physiological third stage have to be a lotus birth? 01:06:03 – Tips on how to support neurodiverse women in labour with sensory issues in hospital. In this episode Mel mentions: The Convergence of Rebellious Midwives 2027 tickets here!  The Assembly Waitlist Episode 153 - How to avoid tearing during childbirth Episode 197 - Having a vaginal birth in hospital Episode 195 - The high powered hospital bag Episode 156 - Hypnobirthing! Can it really help? Episode 211 - Manage your labour pain with sterile water injections and hypnobirthing This episode has been generously sponsored by Poppy Child from @popthatmumma. She is offering great birth rebellion listeners 25% off the Birth box which includes the oxytocin bubble tracks. Use the code “Melanie” at the check out to claim your discount. Just go to hypnobirthing-positive-birth.com/birthbox Get more from the Great Birth Rebellion PodcastJoin the podcast mailing list to access the resource folder from each episode at www.melaniethemidwife.comJoin the rebellion and show your support! Grab your Great Birth Rebellion merchandise now at www.thegreatbirthrebellion.comFollow us on social media @thegreatbirthrebellion and @melaniethemidwifeIf this podcast has improved your knowledge or pregnancy, birth or postpartum journey please consider thanking us financially by leaving a tip to support the ongoing work of this podcast. DisclaimerThe information and resources provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice. Instead, all information provided is intended for education, with it's application intended for discussion between yourself and your care provider and/or workplace if you are a health professional.The Great Birth Rebellion podcast reserves the right to supplement, edit, change, delete any information at any time. Whilst we have tried to maintain accuracy and completeness of information, we do not warrant or guarantee the accuracy or currency of the information. The podcast accepts no liability for any loss, damage or unfavourable outcomes howsoever arising out of the use or reliance on the content.This podcast is not a replacement for midwifery or medical clinical care.All transcripts are generated by ai and may contain errors

What classes should first-time parents actually take before the baby arrives?In this episode, Chelsea breaks down the most common options, including hospital childbirth classes, Lamaze, HypnoBirthing, the Bradley Method, infant CPR, breastfeeding education, lactation support, and newborn-care classes.You'll hear how to decide which classes are worth your time, what hospital-based classes may leave out, and why finding a lactation professional before birth can make those early feeding days much easier.Chelsea also names the class most couples never think to take: preparation for the relationship transition.Because couples can spend hours learning how to swaddle a baby and almost no time learning how to handle the 3 a.m. disagreement about whose turn it is.This episode will help expecting parents prepare not only for birth and newborn care, but also for communication, mental load, stress, roles, and becoming parents as a team.Topics include:• Best classes for first-time parents• Hospital birth classes vs. independent birth education• Lamaze, HypnoBirthing, and the Bradley Method• Infant CPR and newborn-care classes• Prenatal breastfeeding and lactation support• Preparing your relationship before baby• Dividing responsibilities after birth• Communication and mental load for new parentsPrep for Us helps expecting couples prepare for the relationship transition into parenthood so they can communicate clearly, share the load, and stay connected after the baby arrives.Prep for Us: How to Prepare Your Relationship for a Baby | Postpartum Together

Why not favour pain management options that have no side-effects? In this episode, Mel interviews midwife and researcher Nigel Lee who explains the research he and his team undertook regarding 2 pain management options for labour and birth - sterile water injections and hypnobirthing. In this episode we pick apart the research, explain how they are used and show how using sterile water injections and hypnobirth could change the course of your labour and birth. If you want to reduce your chances of needing an epidural or caesarean, this episode has some helpful strategies for you.  In this episode Mel makes reference to her GUIDE TO GIVING BIRTH WITHOUT PAIN MEDICATION which is currently on sale for $27 until end of July 2026. Get it now for an all-round clear strategy for navigating the pain  Australian Midwives, answer Nigel's survey here for his current research project: https://uqnm.syd1.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_5o8pgZYB9HNcAF8 If you want to re-skill or upskill in physiological birth and be part of the solution with Mel by your side throughout your midwifery career, join the wait list here, to be one of the 200 midwives Mel is offering to nurture.  This episode is generously sponsored by Poppy Child from @popthatmumma. Poppy is offering Great Birth Rebellion listeners 25% off the Birth Box. Use the code Melanie at the checkout to claim your discount. Just go to https://hypnobirthing-positive-birth.com/birthbox Get more from the Great Birth Rebellion PodcastJoin the podcast mailing list to access the resource folder from each episode at www.melaniethemidwife.comJoin the rebellion and show your support! Grab your Great Birth Rebellion merchandise now at www.thegreatbirthrebellion.comFollow us on social media @thegreatbirthrebellion and @melaniethemidwifeIf this podcast has improved your knowledge or pregnancy, birth or postpartum journey please consider thanking us financially by leaving a tip to support the ongoing work of this podcast. DisclaimerThe information and resources provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice. Instead, all information provided is intended for education, with it's application intended for discussion between yourself and your care provider and/or workplace if you are a health professional.The Great Birth Rebellion podcast reserves the right to supplement, edit, change, delete any information at any time. Whilst we have tried to maintain accuracy and completeness of information, we do not warrant or guarantee the accuracy or currency of the information. The podcast accepts no liability for any loss, damage or unfavourable outcomes howsoever arising out of the use or reliance on the content.This podcast is not a replacement for midwifery or medical clinical care.All transcripts are generated by ai and may contain errors

Dr Pat and Brigid talk about what to do once you have done a home pregnancy test and it is positive. This episode covers when to see a doctor, what happens at this first appointment, what all the blood tests are for, what estimated due dates mean, what an unsighted pregnancy is, what beta hCG is and what medical history needs to be discussed with your doctor. Plus loads more. If you have a question you want answered, please leave your message on speakpipe to be chosen for Dr Pat to answer during a Q&A: LINKS Join our pregnancy and birth course Join our pregnancy course Instagram @thekickpregnancypodcast Facebook @thekickpregnancypodcast Just pregnant? Download our checklist to take to your first appointment. Website: https://www.growmybaby.com.au/Support the show: https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

In this episode we hear from Maddi who shares her incredible journey through three very different births and the lessons she learned along the way.After a positive first birth in hospital where Maddi used hypnobirthing and had a vaginal birth, she planned a homebirth with a privately practising midwife for her second. Her pregnancy took an unexpected turn when Maddi was diagnosed with placenta previa leading to a caesarean birth, though Maddi shares her experiences of waiting for her son to choose his own birth day. For her third birth she again planned a homebirth with a privately practising midwife, spent time educating herself and rebuilding confidence in her body's ability to birth.What followed was an unforgettable VBAC journey filled with intuition, trust, advocacy, and a few unexpected twists. Maddi reflects on navigating the stigma surrounding VBAC, the importance of evidence-based support, and how continuity of care helped her make informed decisions throughout pregnancy and birth.This conversation is a powerful reminder that every birth story is unique, that informed choice matters, and that trusting yourself can be one of the most valuable tools in pregnancy, birth, and motherhood.We hope you enjoy it as much as we did!

In today's episode Rosie shares her journey into motherhood, which very sadly began with the loss of a twin pregnancy. She talks candidly about her miscarriage, finding solace in the stories of women who had been through similar experiences, and how grief, anxiety, joy and gratitude all had to coexist when she conceived again. Rosie always knew she wanted to birth her baby at home and she talks us through her long labour, including the mental challenge of navigating the early stages when progress felt slow. She was incredibly well supported throughout by her husband, doula and acupuncturist and when her baby was born into her arms in her own bedroom, Rosie describes feeling like an absolute queen. This is the most beautiful example of a mother's determination, strength and stamina and a wonderful reminder of just how empowering and positive birth has the potential to be.   Rosie's doula: https://www.sarahmkerridge.com  Rosie's acupuncturist:  https://www.claremossacupuncture.com  Rosie's IG: https://www.instagram.com/rosiegordonlennox     Rosie's website: https://www.rosiewildgoose.co.uk    My website: www.serenalouth.com My IG: https://www.instagram.com/serenalouth/

On the MamasteFit Podcast, perinatal fitness trainer and doula Gina and certified nurse midwife Roxanne interview Brooke about the birth of her second child, Scarlet. After a 48-hour first labor that included Pitocin and an epidural, Brooke (a physical therapist) prepared intensely for an unmedicated hospital birth: reading Ina May's Guide to Childbirth, listening to MamasteFit, taking our childbirth course, and trying multiple comfort tools. Past her due date, labor ramped up quickly and she discovered the hypnobirthing tools she had thought would save the day just weren't her thing! Thanks to preparing a variety of comfort measure, Brooke discovered low moans/vocalization, swaying, and asymmetrical positions helped most! She arrived fully dilated, and experienced a birth that left her feeling super empowered! Her key advice: prepare, educate, and bring backup coping methods.00:00 Welcome 01:04 Brooke Joins the Show01:22 First Birth Lessons03:17 Planning Unmedicated Birth04:45 Books and Coping Tools06:25 Courses and Hypnobirthing08:28 Late Pregnancy Labor Prep09:45 Early Labor Begins15:51 Active Labor at Home21:52 Vocalization Breakthrough23:03 Hospital Arrival and Triage25:54 Fully Dilated Surprise30:11 Pushing Positions and Water Break32:58 Crowning and Shoulder Delivery35:21 Birth and Immediate Afterglow38:59 Postpartum Recovery and Two Kids41:07 Advice to Prepare and Adapt44:06 Wrap Up and Listener Takeaways————

What if you could turn off the most agonizing pain imaginable just by thinking about a waterfall? Or better yet, what if a guy in a purple silk robe could cure you by waving a magnet over your junk? This week, Jeremie takes Brian and Taylor on a wild, mind-bending trip into the billion-dollar industry of Hypnobirthing and the dark, bizarre history of hypnosis. From 18th-century "Animal Magnetism" and the accidental discovery of the placebo effect, to a 19th-century surgeon who removed 80-pound scrotal tumors while his patients literally slept through it, we're unpacking whether the brain really has a 'mute button' for pain. Is hypnobirthing tapping into a dormant superpower of the human mind, or is it just the ultimate medical gaslight that leaves women trapped in a toxic 'shame spiral' when it hurts? Grab your pocket watch, protect your testicles, and let's get weird.Follow Sickboy: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sickboypodcastTiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sickboypodcastDiscord: https://discord.gg/expeUDN

What if you could turn off the most agonizing pain imaginable just by thinking about a waterfall? Or better yet, what if a guy in a purple silk robe could cure you by waving a magnet over your junk? This week, Jeremie takes Brian and Taylor on a wild, mind-bending trip into the billion-dollar industry of Hypnobirthing and the dark, bizarre history of hypnosis. From 18th-century "Animal Magnetism" and the accidental discovery of the placebo effect, to a 19th-century surgeon who removed 80-pound scrotal tumors while his patients literally slept through it, we're unpacking whether the brain really has a 'mute button' for pain. Is hypnobirthing tapping into a dormant superpower of the human mind, or is it just the ultimate medical gaslight that leaves women trapped in a toxic 'shame spiral' when it hurts? Grab your pocket watch, protect your testicles, and let's get weird.Follow Sickboy: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sickboypodcastTiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@sickboypodcastDiscord: https://discord.gg/expeUDN

Today's expecting mothers are much more proactive in their approach to childbirth preparation, and that's one reason why Hypnobabies has become so popular. What exactly is Hypnobabies and how does it differ from Hypnobirthing? What does it take to become successful in using this technique? Plus, is it really possible to have a "pain-free" birth? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Everything worthwhile is on the other side of a risky conversation—especially when it comes to women's health, birth, and career. In this episode, I sit down with professional investor–turned–hypnobirthing educator Maria Lernerman to talk about how hypnosis, birth preparation, and self-advocacy can transform one of life's most intense experiences into a joyful, empowering memory.Maria shares how she navigates being a daytime asset manager and nighttime hypnobirthing educator, hypnotist, lactation counselor, and mom of three, and why talking openly about hypnosis in a buttoned-up industry was a risky (and worthwhile) career conversation. You'll learn what hypnobirthing actually is (beyond the woo), how it helps many parents have calmer births—often with less or no medication—and why these tools become “meta skills” you can use in high-stakes work situations, from boardrooms to hospital rooms. Maria also offers grounded advice for women and couples planning to grow their families, including those going through IVF or navigating “high-risk” labels in the medical system.If you care about self-advocacy, emotional regulation, and having real choices in your healthcare, this conversation will expand what you think is possible—for birthing, working, and beyond.Timestamps 00:00 – Who is Jamie Lee? Introducing executive coaching, “risky conversations,” and guest Maria Lernerman03:17 – Maria's “risky conversation”: bringing hypnobirthing and hypnosis into a traditional investment career09:24 – What is hypnobirthing? The Mongan Method, full-spectrum birth prep, and why partners matter14:12 – How can birth be more comfortable with little or no medication? Fear, tension, relaxation, and the body's design18:08 – Maria's own birth stories: from terrified first-time mom to hypnobirthing educator (and the Uber-driver tipping point)23:12 – Self-hypnosis as a meta skill: staying grounded in chaotic hospitals, high-stakes meetings, and everyday conflict26:22 – Client success stories: natural births, empowered C-sections, partners stepping up, and redefining what a “good birth” looks like31:55 – Advice for women and couples (including IVF and “high risk”): choice, providers, and protecting your sense of agencyYou can learn more about Maria's work at DiscoverYourPowerBirth.com and about the Mongan Method at hypnobirthing.com.Learn more about bespoke executive coaching with Jamie Lee at JamieLeeCoach.com and book a free hour-long consultation with Jamie here. Text me your thoughts on this episode!Enjoy the show? Don't miss an episode, listen and subscribe via Apple Podcasts or Spotify.  Leave me a review in Apple Podcasts. Connect with meBook a free hour-long consultation with me. You'll leave with your custom blueprint to confidence, and we'll ensure it's a slam-dunk fit for you before you commit to working with me 1:1. Connect with me on LinkedIn Email me at jamie@jamieleecoach.com 

Whether you're a first time mom feeling overwhelmed or a seasoned mom gearing up for another round, this episode is a peek into exactly how I'm preparing for my second natural birth with baby #3. From physical to mental, spiritual to postpartum prep, I'm walking you through everything I'm doing this time around!!A heads up before you press play: this is not a checklist. You don't have to do every single thing I'm doing. But if even one piece of this episode lights a fire under you to actually prepare, you're going to have a so much better experience than going in blind.In this episode I cover:What's the same and what's different about this birth How I'm physically preparing The blood sugar deep diveMy supplement and probiotic of choice How I'm mentally preparing for another natural birth My exact labor practice routineHow I'm preparing for postpartum How I'm spiritually preparing---------------------------------------------------------------------------IMPORTANT LINKS(In order of me mentioning them:)•✨ Join our Mom Club on Patreon HERE ✨

In this insightful interview, Monika Benoit shares her journey from hypnotherapy and EFT to quantum manifestation hypnosis, emphasizing tools for healing, intuition, and self-empowerment. Discover practical techniques like tapping and self-hypnosis to reduce burnout, enhance intuition, and create a more balanced life. Monika Benoit is a globally respected Transformation Coach and Intuitive Mentor known for merging trauma-informed healing with practical energetic tools, guiding clients into emotional freedom, self-confidence, and multi-dimensional prosperity. Her work began with her own near-death experiences. After nearly dying from a ruptured appendix in high school, then surviving a brain virus in college, Monika realized that overriding her body's innate wisdom was not an option. As a Polish immigrant watching her parents sacrifice their health for the American dream, she chose a new paradigm: success that doesn't cost your wellbeing, sanity, or relationships. Since 2007, Monika has specialized in EFT, hypnotherapy, and energy work. She became certified in Medical Hypnotherapy after using Hypnobirthing to bring her three children into the world medication-free. After seven years in private practice, she joined a major health insurer as a corporate health coach, eventually leading a team that served thousands. Post-pandemic, she stepped away to realign her work with her core values and life's mission. Monika is the creator of Quantum Manifestation Hypnosis, a grounded, repeatable method that rewires limiting subconscious patterns, calms the nervous system, and strengthens self-confidence. Clients come to Monika burnt out from over-giving, grieving, anxious, suffering from inexplicable physical symptoms, or a quiet sense of “I can't live like this anymore”…. and leave with a shift in energy, a boost in self-confidence, the ability to say No, and the courage to make overdue changes. Described by clients as “a pioneer as a Light Worker and healer” and someone who helps clients do “a complete 180” on decades-old pain. Find Monika: Monika offers a variety of free resources including her Quantum Manifestation Kit at www.monikabenoit.com. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/monika_the_quantum_oracle Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8DyBpuEaphKg0llvWx-YRA Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/monikabenoitofficial/ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@monika_quantum_oracle Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this insightful interview, Monika Benoit shares her journey from hypnotherapy and EFT to quantum manifestation hypnosis, emphasizing tools for healing, intuition, and self-empowerment. Discover practical techniques like tapping and self-hypnosis to reduce burnout, enhance intuition, and create a more balanced life. Monika Benoit is a globally respected Transformation Coach and Intuitive Mentor known for merging trauma-informed healing with practical energetic tools, guiding clients into emotional freedom, self-confidence, and multi-dimensional prosperity. Her work began with her own near-death experiences. After nearly dying from a ruptured appendix in high school, then surviving a brain virus in college, Monika realized that overriding her body's innate wisdom was not an option. As a Polish immigrant watching her parents sacrifice their health for the American dream, she chose a new paradigm: success that doesn't cost your wellbeing, sanity, or relationships. Since 2007, Monika has specialized in EFT, hypnotherapy, and energy work. She became certified in Medical Hypnotherapy after using Hypnobirthing to bring her three children into the world medication-free. After seven years in private practice, she joined a major health insurer as a corporate health coach, eventually leading a team that served thousands. Post-pandemic, she stepped away to realign her work with her core values and life's mission. Monika is the creator of Quantum Manifestation Hypnosis, a grounded, repeatable method that rewires limiting subconscious patterns, calms the nervous system, and strengthens self-confidence. Clients come to Monika burnt out from over-giving, grieving, anxious, suffering from inexplicable physical symptoms, or a quiet sense of “I can't live like this anymore”…. and leave with a shift in energy, a boost in self-confidence, the ability to say No, and the courage to make overdue changes. Described by clients as “a pioneer as a Light Worker and healer” and someone who helps clients do “a complete 180” on decades-old pain. Find Monika: Monika offers a variety of free resources including her Quantum Manifestation Kit at www.monikabenoit.com. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/monika_the_quantum_oracle Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC8DyBpuEaphKg0llvWx-YRA Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/monikabenoitofficial/ Tiktok: https://www.tiktok.com/@monika_quantum_oracle Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ich werde immer wieder nach Atemübungen für die Geburt bzw. für die Geburtsvorbereitung gefragt – und das aus gutem Grund. Dein Atem ist unter der Geburt einer deiner wichtigsten Anker. Warum das so ist, habe ich dir schon ausführlicher in Folge 99 erklärt – hör da super gern nochmal rein, wenn du tiefer eintauchen möchtest. Gerade im Hypnobirthing gibt es so viele verschiedene Atemübungen – das kann schnell verwirrend werden. In dieser Folge machen wir es bewusst einfacher: Du trainierst eine Atemübung als klares Basis-Prinzip, das dich wirklich trägt. Gemeinsam üben wir: – bewusstes Atmen – die Atmung über das Zwerchfell (ganz entspannt) – und vor allem: die Ausatmung zu verlängern Denn genau das kannst du unter der Geburt für dich nutzen – um in den Wellen weich zu bleiben, dich zu entspannen und dein Baby aktiv mit deiner Atmung zu begleiten. Wenn du das zum ersten Mal machst, wirst du vielleicht merken: so langsam und ruhig zu atmen ist gar nicht so leicht. Und genau deshalb lohnt sich dieses Training in deiner Geburtsvorbereitung.

Some items make a difference to your birth and postnatal experience. Have a listen to this episode to make sure you don't miss something on your packing and preparation list for birth. A Full check list of the high powered hospital bag is available here to print and check off.  To prepare for your high powered hospital birth, get the guide to giving birth without pain medication so you and your care team are mentally and physically prepared for the work of labour and birth. You can do it! You just need to be prepared. The guide to giving birth without pain medication is all facts, no fluff to help you prepare for labour and birth.  The great birth rebellion podcast is generously sponsored by Poppy Child from @popthatmumma. She is offering great birth rebellion listeners 25% off the Birth box which includes the oxytocin bubble tracks. Use the code Melanie at the check out to claim your discount. Just go to hypnobirthing-positive-birth.com/birthbox The other helpful items mentioned in this episode are: ElleTENS machine The Birth Sling - $10 off discount code MELANIEJACKSON The Birth Box - 25% discount code Melanie The Guide to giving birth without pain medication Great birth rebellion podcast episodes that go well with this one include: 193. What to do if your labour is FAST 188. Waterbirth risks and safety 185. Guide to a great birth 173. How to give great birth support 170. Managing Labour pain without medication 167. Pushing out your baby 158. What is a Doula and should I get one? 156. Hypnobirthing - can it really help? 155. Optimising your body in labour 151. What is it like to be in labour? 149. Increase your chance of vaginal birth in hospital Get more from the Great Birth Rebellion PodcastJoin the podcast mailing list to access the resource folder from each episode at www.melaniethemidwife.comJoin the rebellion and show your support! Grab your Great Birth Rebellion merchandise now at www.thegreatbirthrebellion.comFollow us on social media @thegreatbirthrebellion and @melaniethemidwifeIf this podcast has improved your knowledge or pregnancy, birth or postpartum journey please consider thanking us financially by leaving a tip to support the ongoing work of this podcast.DisclaimerThe information and resources provided on this podcast does not, and is not intended to, constitute or replace medical or midwifery advice. Instead, all information provided is intended for education, with it's application intended for discussion between yourself and your care provider and/or workplace if you are a health professional.The Great Birth Rebellion podcast reserves the right to supplement, edit, change, delete any information at any time. Whilst we have tried to maintain accuracy and completeness of information, we do not warrant or guarantee the accuracy or currency of the information. The podcast accepts no liability for any loss, damage or unfavourable outcomes howsoever arising out of the use or reliance on the content.This podcast is not a replacement for midwifery or medical clinical care.All transcripts are generated by ai and may contain errors

Från skepsis till hypnobirthing-expert – Frida Detters inspirerande resa i samtal med Nina Campioni (repris)Vad händer när en djup skepsis förvandlas till en livsförändrande övertygelse? I det här avsnittet möter vi Frida Detter som berättar om sin personliga resa – från att tvivla på om hon ens kunde föda själv, till att idag hålla kurser och föreläsa om hypnobirthing. Programledare är Nina Campioni.I avsnittet pratar vi om:

In this solo episode of Jadonna, LIVE!, Jadonna shares the story of her two very different birth experiences — one in a hospital in Los Angeles and one at home in Indiana. She talks about discovering hypnobirthing, how the practice helped her stay calm and confident during labor, and why preparation and support made such a huge difference.Jadonna also reflects on the power of having an all-Black female birth team, the realities of navigating birth as a Black woman in the healthcare system, and what postpartum recovery actually looked like in the weeks after giving birth. From dilation surprises to staying upstairs to heal, she shares the honest details of what worked, what didn't, and what she's grateful for.This episode explores hypnobirthing techniques, home birth vs. hospital birth, postpartum recovery, and the importance of support and advocacy during pregnancy and motherhood.Topics include: hypnobirthing • natural birth • home birth • postpartum recovery • Black maternal health • pregnancy preparation • birth support Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

What do you do when God's plan for your life looks completely different from the one you carefully mapped out?In this week's episode of Latter-day Lights, Scott and Emily sit down with author and special guest — Tayma Johnson — to share her journey from never planning to serve a mission, to feeling unmistakably called by the Lord to step into the unknown. Through moments of prayer, spiritual prompting, and unexpected mundane confirmations that subtly nudged her towards mission prep, Tayma recounts how she learned to trust God's timing over her own fears about the future. Her story offers a deeply relatable look at the wrestle between personal desire and divine direction, and how real intent in prayer can open the door to clarity and peace.Tayma also discusses the inspiration behind her upcoming book, “Called to Serve?” which features the stories of 27 women navigating the complex decision of whether or not to serve missions, in hopes to inspire others to take the leap. Alongside reflections on companionship, revelation, and faith during uncertain seasons such as the COVID-era missionary work, this conversation explores how God guides individuals differently—and how seeking to be spiritually ready to receive answers can be just as important as the answers themselves.*** Please SHARE Tayma's story and help us spread hope and light to others. ***To WATCH this episode on YouTube, visit: https://youtu.be/SGXzYv6Hlgw-----To READ Tayma's book, “Called to Serve?” visit: https://www.cedarfort.com/products/called-to-serveTo SUPPORT Emily's non-profit organization, "The Marcovia Project," visit: https://themarcoviaproject.org/To READ Scott's new book “Faith to Stay” for free, visit: https://www.faithtostay.com/-----Keep updated with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/latter.day.lights/Follow us on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/latterdaylightsAlso, if you have a faith-promoting or inspiring story, or know someone who does, please let us know by going to https://www.latterdaylights.com and reaching out to us.

In this episode, Anita sits down with Sasha Chadwick (creator of Hive Mind) for a grounded, yet mystical, conversation on bee venom medicine, the terrain model and what it means to rebuild trust in the body's intelligence.Sasha shares her extraordinary entry into beekeeping (including a swarm landing on her doorstep), her personal healing journey through allergy, anaphylaxis and “purging" - and her evolving view of venom administration as a form of environmental exposure and recalibration.Together, they explore how the body interprets threat, how symptoms can be communication and why the hive itself is an archetype for community, contraction/expansion and renewal.This episode is a deep dive into sovereignty, nature's patterns and the medicine of relationship - with striking parallels to birth and initiation at times!This episode is a conversation exploring philosophy, lived experience and ancestral frameworks around nature and health. Nothing shared is medical advice. Always seek qualified support for allergy, anaphylaxis, pregnancy and any medical concerns.Connect with SashaWebsite: Hive Mind Earth (start here for resources and books)Instagram: @sashachadwick_ (daily shares + updates)Connect with AnitaIf you're drawn to pregnancy and birth as initiation, spiritual prenatal care, or in home private healing sessions. Follow Anitaat @themidwitch and stay connected for more episodes weaving birth, body wisdom and sovereignty.

In this episode, CI chat with Eliza, who shares her two very different birth experiences. Her first birth was straightforward but left her feeling shocked and overwhelmed. Determined to feel more in control second time around, she discovered hypnobirthing, and it completely changed everything.Eliza talks about:Why her “good on paper” first birth didn't feel goodHow hypnobirthing shifted her mindsetA calm, instinctive early labour at homeThe incredibly fast birth that almost happened in triageHow understanding her body made all the differenceA powerful episode for anyone preparing for birth or looking for confidence after a difficult first experience.

In this episode, I'm setting the scene for the season by gently unpacking what hypnobirthing really is, and what it isn't. So many parents come to hypnobirthing feeling pressure to do it “right,” to stay calm, or to have a certain kind of birth, and I want to take that pressure away.Hypnobirthing isn't about control or perfection. It's about understanding your body, feeling safe, and having choices. I talk about the nervous system, why safety matters in birth, and what a positive birth truly means; regardless of how your birth unfolds.If you're pregnant and looking for more support, I share details of my hypnobirthing courses and doula support in the below. And if this episode helped, I'd love you to follow the podcast or leave a review.Thank you for being here

While Tara was blacking out from pain, losing hope, and believing she didn't have enough faith for a pain free pregnancy, she experienced a deeply spiritual experience that led her to creating the first of its kind, her own app, for Christian Hypnobirthing. Tune in to find out how drastically different Tara's births were with and without the power of hypnobirthing, how our thoughts and emotions can imprint on our babies brains, and how you can use hypnobirthing beyond labor!EPISODE HIGHLIGHTS:How Tara started Christian HypnobirthingDealing with coercion and losing faith in Tara's first birthHow hypnobirthing transformed Tara's second birthCultivating peace throughout your pregnancyUsing hypnobirthing beyond pregnancyCombining faith with neuroscience and how our babies brains are wired MORE ABOUT TARA MENZIES:Tara Menzies is the creator of the Christian Hypnobirthing app and the Faith-Filled Childbirth Course. She created the app in early 2018 after the birth of her first son, because she wanted to combine traditional hypnobirthing techniques (breathing and visualisation exercises, positive affirmations etc) with the incredible love, strength and support that come from our Heavenly Father, Lord Jesus and Holy Spirit, to help expecting mamas feel confident relaxed and connected to God throughout their births. The Christian Hypnobirthing app has since become one of the most highly rated hypnobirthing apps worldwide, and has helped tens of thousands of women have more relaxed, confident and faith-filled birth experiences.Instagram: @christianhypnobirthingChristian Hypnobirthing WebsiteCONNECT WITH KAREN:Use code PODCAST to get $50 off the Pain Free Birth E-course HEREGrab Karen's Healing Birth Trauma Course HERE. This course is for any woman experiencing trauma in the body. If you're ready to release it, this course is for you. InstagramFacebookYouTube

After what should have been a joyful birth, Sofía Herrera (childbirth educator, EBB Instructor, Hypnobirthing instructor, and social & clinical psychologist) spent nearly 20 years believing she had postpartum depression, until her investigation revealed the truth: she had experienced birth trauma. That realization became the catalyst for her work supporting birthing families and confronting the widespread obstetric violence and misinformation embedded in Mexico's maternity care system.   Sofía shares what trauma really means, how unconsented interventions and paternalistic care shape birthing experiences, and why so many families mistakenly believe they "failed" when in reality, the system failed them. She also describes the challenges of childbirth in Mexico—from extremely high Cesarean rates to routine episiotomies—and how evidence-based education empowers families to find safer, more respectful care.   (02:26) Sofía's 20-year journey living with untreated trauma (06:45) Patterns she saw as a childbirth educator (10:20) Why psychosocial trauma in birth is under-researched and misunderstood (12:18) Sofía's own birth experience (18:23) Mexico's extremely high Cesarean rates (19:48) How paternalism shows up culturally and inside clinical relationships (21:08) Routine episiotomies and outdated "protocols" still being taught (22:24) Can childbirth education prevent trauma? How informed families change the system (28:35) Differences between private vs. public hospitals in Mexico (32:38) How Sofía uses EBB resources to support and empower families (35:19) Sofía's top advice for families fearing obstetric violence or disrespectful care   Resources Connect with Sofía: @sukhamoms Get EBB Handouts in Spanish: evidencebasedbirth.com/translations/   For more information about Evidence Based Birth® and a crash course on evidence based care, visit www.ebbirth.com. Follow us on Instagram and YouTube! Ready to learn more? Grab an EBB Podcast Listening Guide or read Dr. Dekker's book, "Babies Are Not Pizzas: They're Born, Not Delivered!" If you want to get involved at EBB, join our Professional membership (scholarship options available) and get on the wait list for our EBB Instructor program. Find an EBB Instructor here, and click here to learn more about the EBB Childbirth Class.

What if the birth trauma you've been carrying isn't just from this lifetime? This is the first time I'm publicly sharing my birth story. After holding onto the emotions from my birth with Rui for 3.5 years,what was meant to be a planned home birth that turned into an emergency category 1 caesarean (a situation that was life threatening to both Rui and myself), the universe kept putting Shari Lyon in my path... and when I finally surrendered to doing the work with her, what we uncovered changed everything. I've never been able to openly talk about that day without crying and truthfully, I've been terrified of having a second baby. The shame, guilt, sadness, fear and grief has consumed me. But in this deeply vulnerable and transformative episode, I sit down with Shari Lyon... a leading coach, educator, and advocate for women through conception, pregnancy, birth, and postpartum. Through Timeline Therapy and the Emotional Change Technique (ECT), Shari helped me heal at the deepest root cause level... and thanks to her work, the anxiety surrounding birth has not only been released but deeply healed, and I can now see the total perfection in the turn of events that took place. In this episode, we dive into: → Why even the most prepared women can experience birth trauma → The gap in traditional Hypnobirthing education → How Timeline Therapy works to heal emotional root causes → My experience being taken back to a past life during one of our sessions → Why your baby might be guiding you to do this healing work → How generational patterns can be passed down to our children in the womb → How to become the circuit breaker for ancestral trauma → The emotional "strings" we carry throughout our lifetime → Why healing before conception creates a clearer channel for your spirit baby About Shari Lyon: Shari Lyon is a leading coach, educator, and advocate for women through conception, pregnancy, birth, and postpartum. With over 13 years of experience supporting families, she brings a unique fusion of evidence-based childbirth education, therapeutic hypnosis, and trauma-informed coaching to every woman she serves. Shari is the founder of Belly2Birth, a highly reputable Hypnobirthing and childbirth education program in Australia, and is also a co-founder of Fertile Birth & Beyond, a transformative multi-modality practitioner training company that is redefining how women are supported across their perinatal journey. Deeply passionate about healing and transforming birth trauma, Shari's mission is to ensure every woman feels informed, safe, connected, and powerful in her choices — no matter how her path unfolds. She believes birth is both a rite of passage and a profound opportunity for personal and generational healing, and she is dedicated to guiding women back to their voice, their intuition, and their innate capability to birth and mother with confidence. Timestamps: Chapters 00:00:00 Introduction to Shari Lyon and Birth Healing 00:00:29 Why This Episode Matters for Everyone 00:01:19 The Eight Core Negative Emotions We Carry 00:01:30 Welcome to the Worthy Podcast 00:01:56 Shari's Divine Journey into Birth Work 00:07:41 The Gap in Birth Education and Preparation 00:12:53 Being at Cause vs. Being in Effect During Birth 00:14:25 Chani's Birth Story and Unexpected Outcome 00:17:04 What is Timeline Therapy and ECT? 00:18:30 Understanding Emotional Strings and Root Causes 00:20:41 How ECT Releases Emotional Charges 00:22:14 Re-imprinting Memories with New Resources 00:23:11 Chani's Profound ECT Experiences 00:25:38 Breaking Generational Patterns Before Pregnancy 00:27:36 Soul Babies Guiding Mothers to Healing 00:28:50 The Past Life Revelation with Rui 00:29:38 Energy, Reincarnation, and Life Lessons 00:30:15 Shari's Past Life as a Midwife 00:30:55 Bridging the Gap: Supporting Caregivers Too 00:37:00 The Divine Purpose Behind Chani's Birth Experience 00:39:11 Why Women Put Expectations on Birth 00:39:52 The Journey to Birth Program 00:41:18 Cultural Suppression of Birth Grief 00:41:57 ECT vs. Traditional Talk Therapy 00:46:03 Physical Healing and Emotional Botox 00:46:54 The Divine Partnership with Elizabeth Ann Walker 00:44:31 Rebirthing Ritual for Healing Trauma 00:48:11 Training the Next Generation of Practitioners 00:49:51 Finding Peace and Surrender for Baby Number Two 00:49:04 Connect with Shari and Final Reflections Connect with Shari: Instagram: @belly2birth Website: www.belly2birth.com.au Practitioner Training: www.fertilebirthandbeyond.com Instagram: @fertilebirthandbeyond Resources Mentioned: Sacred Birthing by Sunni Karll: https://amzn.to/44J052c If this episode resonated with you: Please click follow,subscribe and share this episode with anyone you feel will value this episode ... it greatly supports this channel, allowing us to have more incredible guests on the show + helps us reach more women who need to hear this message.

In this episode, I chat with Emilie, a mum of two who shares her honest, uplifting, and deeply relatable story of pregnancy, birth, and postpartum recovery. Emilie planned a home birth for her second baby after a fast first labour; and her instinct proved right. She talks us through her surprisingly quick home birth, how hypnobirthing techniques helped her stay calm and in control, and the vital role her partner played throughout the experience.

In this episode, I sit down with Kelsey, a Canadian mum of three now living in Newcastle, NSW, who walks us through her deeply contrasting birth experiences — from a marathon first labour, to a premature birth affected by pre-eclampsia, and finally, her powerful HBAC.Kelsey's story is a reminder that birth doesn't follow a straight line. Each pregnancy asked something new of her, and each birth required its own kind of strength.Her first baby arrived after more than 40 hours of labour, beginning at 40+5.After labouring for 24 hours she was still only 1 cm dilated.Her baby was posterior, her waters broke naturally, she eventually accepted an epidural, and after 48 hours of labour she had a vaginal birth — but her baby was taken to special care due to a low baseline heart rate and being born “floppy.”Kelsey's second pregnancy brought a new challenge: pre-eclampsia.Her blood pressure spiked, and she was induced at 33 weeks.Her baby spent two weeks in special care. This was a different experience, one that required patience and resiliance that was different to her first postpartum experience This experience planted the seed for something different the next time, a birth where she felt supported, informed, and safe.With her third baby, Kelsey planned a HBAC right at the last minute at 33 weeks. She always wanted to have a VBAC, but realised if she wanted to give this her best shot, her choice would be at home. She was able to connect with a midwife she felt comfortable with and got her husband on board, after watching the Birth Time movie with together.This time, she felt grounded, prepared, and empowered — and she went on to achieve her dream of a HBAC at home, bringing her baby into the world surrounded by safety, warmth and support.Kelsey credits much of her confidence and preparation to the incredible birth resources she leaned on, including:⭐ Her own knowing and intuition⭐ The Great Birth Rebellion Podcast⭐ The VBAC Homebirth Stories Podcast⭐ Birth Time (the documentary)⭐ Hypnobirthing tools & educationThese helped her understand her options, challenge the narratives she'd been given, and prepare herself emotionally and mentally for a different birth experience.Enjoy this episode! More from Ashley:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠The VBAC Village⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Insta: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@ashleylwinning⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Website: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠www.ashleywinning.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Join our⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ VBAC Homebirth Support ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Group here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Love the podcast? ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Buy me a⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ coffeeDisclaimer: The VBAC Homebirth Stories Podcast is for educational and inspirational purposes only. The stories and opinions shared are personal experiences and should not be considered medical advice. Every birth journey is unique, and we encourage you to research, trust your intuition, and consult with a qualified healthcare provider before making decisions about your pregnancy, birth, and postpartum care.

Christian Hypnobirthing seems to be the most popular form of birth preparation right now.  In today's episode we seek to discover what the Bible says about hypnosis and share our thoughts coming from 2 different perspectives.  My friend Amanda has recently come from the New Age and I from a Christian perspective that dabbled with New Age perspectives.  Come over to IG @peacfulhomebirth and let us know what you thought of this episode!    If you're ready to avoid information overload and overthinking, join Homebirth Hub — my 8-week homebirth course that gives you exactly what you need to know to have the homebirth of your dreams, without wasting time scrolling on Instagram or worrying if you're prepared enough. Get 10% off with code PEACEFUL10 at checkout.  Just head to www.peacefulhomebirth.com/homebirthhub and start preparing for the birth God designed you for. Download the Workbook Here- https://peacefulhomebirth.thrivecart.com/findjoy/ Get the retreat replay here- peacefulhomebirth.com/replay   Sponsors- Araza: (Black Friday Sale Coming This Week!) Find Your Shade Here Click to get 15% off & use code PEACEFULHOMEBIRTH   Create a free account on Fullscript: Get 10% Off All High Quality Supplements Everyday Dose Mushroom Coffee: https://www.everydaydose.com/ALYMCCLAIN   Connect with Aly: IG- @peacefulhomebirth @simplymcclain FB Group- www.facebook.com/groups/peacefulhomebirth   Grab your Homebirth Essentials Checklist:

In this episode, Monique shares how she discovered hypnobirthing and prepared herself for a calm, natural birth. She talks about her experience managing gestational diabetes and planning for a hospital birth, before an unexpected diagnosis of severe preeclampsia at 35 weeks changed everything. Monique's story is such a wonderful reminder that a positive birth isn't defined by how it looks on paper, but by how you feel, prepare, and respond to the journey as it unfolds.

In this episode of the Modern Mommy Doc Podcast, Dr. Whitney Casares sits down with Liat Ron, filmmaker and producer of the new documentary Fear and Now. The film shines a light on how fear and trauma often shape the birthing experience—and how tools like hypnobirthing can transform it into something calmer, safer, and even enjoyable.Liat shares her own journey of discovery as she dove into the world of birth work, learning that women don't have to choose between medicine and empowerment. Instead, it's about reframing birth as an experience where parents can feel informed, supported, and free from unnecessary fear.You'll learn:Why fear and trauma are so common in modern birth stories—and how they can be addressed.What hypnobirthing actually is (and what it isn't).How parents can prepare for a more calm, confident, and fear-free birth.Why this movement isn't “anti-medicine”—but rather about combining safety with empowerment.Liat's behind-the-scenes experience making Fear and Now and what she hopes parents, providers, and birth workers take away from it.This conversation is an invitation to imagine birth differently: with less fear, more connection, and the possibility of joy in one of life's most powerful transitions.Find out more here. ______This episode is brought to you by Suvie: If dinnertime is your daily chaos hour, I've got something game-changing.It's called Suvie. It's a smart countertop appliance and meal delivery service that makes effortless home-cooked meals. And here's the coolest part - The Suvie Kitchen Robot that refrigerates your food all day, then cooks it automatically—roasting, slow cooking, even air frying—so dinner's ready exactly when you need it.I use it because I don't have time to meal prep every Sunday. I need something that works with my actual schedule. Suvie does.You can load it in the morning, set it, and forget it. No stress. No last-minute drive-thru.Suvie makes dinner one less thing to worry about.Check it out at suvie.com/modernmommy and get 16 free meals with this link.

The experience of pain in labour is shaped by many factors - previous experiences, as well as emotional, physical, motivational, cognitive, social, and cultural circumstances. In this episode, Drs. Alicia and Sarah explore both medicinal and non-medicinal strategies for managing pain, with a special focus on epidurals (a topic we're often asked about!). Understanding your options is key to making decisions that feel right for you, even when labour doesn't go entirely according to plan. To support you, we've put together a free handout on the Risks and Benefits of Epidurals and How to Support Your Partner in Labour, along with related episodes on Hypnobirthing and Waterbirths. Subscribe to The Pregnancy to Parenthood Podcast Series! For the low, one-time cost of $47, get full access to over 40 informative episodes supporting you week by week, focused on the trimester and stage of pregnancy you are in. Tune in every week, or binge listen all at once and come back to the episodes you found most helpful as you move through pregnancy to parenthood! *This episode is a re-release. Original release date: April 19, 2023.

Send us a textIn this month's Q&A, we start with a big one: What are your biggest fears in life? (Besides snakes and spiders, of course!) Then we dive into your thoughtful community questions, including:Homebirth vs. family pushback: My sister is a labor & delivery nurse, my family isn't supportive, and my MIL has no boundaries. What should I do?Breastfeeding oversupply: I had a major oversupply with my first baby—will it be worse or the same with my next?Birth interventions: In my first birth, my midwife used hands-on pushing techniques and I was given continuous antibiotics. Were these necessary?In the extended version of today's episode available on Patreon or Apple subscriptions, we answer additional questions on:preparing for a long home birth after a cesarean (HBAC) and how to avoid hospital transfer, "failure to progress" in a vaginal birth after cesarean (VBAC), whether we consider water birth to be a birth intervention, and if it is ok to sleep on your back in pregnancy. Finally, in quickies, we discuss: the best HypnoBirthing class (ha), preventing perineal tearing, cycle length & gestation, our current favorite podcasts, breast reductions and breastfeeding, posterior babies, pushing length and positions, and a favorite item in our homes.  Thanks, everyone, and call us any time at 802-GET-DOWN! That's 802-438-3696.Watch this episode in full video format on YouTube.**********Our sponsors, Patreon, and contact info below: Needed

 Fear and birth—two words that often get tangled together. Katharine Graves, an internationally recognised hypnobirthing expert and trainer , founder of KGhypnobirthing takes us through the grounding methods in hypnobirthing and working with fear in Birth.We discuss:Overcoming fear in BirthDiscerning Fear from IntuitionWater Birth and the role of mind in BirthWeather all fear can be wiped out before Birth About the Guest:Katharine Graves is an internationally recognised expert on hypnobirthing, and author of The Hypnobirthing Book.  She is the founder and leader of KG Hypnobirthing. Katharine has also trained thousands of KG Hypnobirthing teachers who have spread her method across many countries.  She has been invited to speak about hypnobirthing in many countries worldwide. She is the author of the Hypnobirthing Book.Link of her online hypnobirthing course: kghb.org/kgonlineSupport the showSign up for Childbirth Preparation Programs! visit https://birthagni.com/services#childbirth-preparation-programs https://birthagni.com/copy-of-services#breastfeeding-preparation-program This episode is supported and made possible by podcast recording and hosting tool Zencastr, it is impeccably made! Use my link : https://zen.ai/vxmuJUgYKKGTF3JuTuFQ0g to sign up and record flawless remote podcast , USE my code : BIRTHAGNI Support the show:https://birthagni.com/birthagnipodcast#donate If you like what you hear, leave us a rating on Spotify app and answer the question at each episode! a review on Apple podcasts. Share on Whatsapp/Insta/FB Share on Instagram and tag us @divyakapoorvox ...

Send us a textIn this episode of The Ultimate Birth Partner Podcast, I'm joined by Poppy Child from Pop That Mumma, who shares parts of her second birth story that she has never spoken about publicly before.Poppy went into her pregnancy journey believing that a pain-free birth was achievable, but the reality unfolded in ways she hadn't expected. In this conversation, she opens up about the untold elements of her experience, offering an honest reflection on how expectations can differ from reality in birth.We explore:The vision of a pain-free birth and how it contrasted with realityThe unplanned circumstances that shaped Poppy's second birthThe emotional impact of unmet expectationsWhy speaking about the less-shared parts of birth matters so deeplyPoppy's openness is a true gift, and I'm so grateful for her courage in sharing the sides of her story that have remained unspoken. Her reflections will reassure and support anyone who has felt the gap between what they imagined birth would be and the reality they experienced.Resources & Links:Connect with Poppy on instagram: @PopthatmummaFollow me on Instagram: @ultimatebirthpartnerExplore more episodes: The Ultimate Birth Partner PodcastIf you love the podcast and would like to support it, then please use the link to 'buy me a coffee' - https://bmc.link/sallyannberesfordIf you would like to buy a copy of either of the books that accompany this podcast please go to your online bookseller or visit Amazon:-Labour of Love - The Ultimate Guide to Being a Birth Partner - click here:-https://bit.ly/LabourofloveThe Art of Giving Birth - Five Key Physiological Principles - https://amzn.to/3EGh9dfPregnancy Journal for 'The Art of Giving Birth' - Black and White version https://amzn.to/3CvJXmOPregnancy Journal for 'The Art of Giving Birth'- Colour version https://amzn.to/3GknbPFYou can find all my classes and courses on my website - www.sallyannberesford.co.uk Follow me on Instagram @theultimatebirthpartner Book a 1-2-1 session with Sallyann - https://linktr.ee/SallyannBeresford Please remember that the information shared with you in this episode is solely based on my own personal experiences as a doula and the private opinions of my guests, based on their own experiences. Any recommendations made may not be suitable for ...

In this powerful  and transformative episode, I welcome back Kristin Revere; doula, educator, and author of Supported: Your Guide to Birth.  Together share our personal experiences for a deeply uplifting conversation on empowered inductions. Kristen shares her personal experience of being induced at 39 weeks due to preeclampsia, and reflects on how it shaped her work supporting other women through birth. I share my experience of listening to my intuition and delaying an induction for 5 weeks, until I was 41 weeks, when I had to fully step into my power, to surrender to a deeply beautiful birth. Together, we unpack the alarmingly rising rates of induction, the often untapped role of doulas, birth coaches, and the ability to access our deep inner wisdom of birth. All the essential tools every woman and birth partner should have — including breathing, advocacy, and knowing when to pause. So whether you're planning an induction or supporting someone who is, this episode is full of practical insights and heartfelt support. You've got this! Connect with Kirstin on:

What does it really take to have a good birth in a hospital?In this episode, I'm joined by Care Messer, Founder of the Birth Education Center in San Diego. She's a certified hypnobirthing instructor, a DONA-certified doula, and a childbirth educator who also trains doulas. Care teaches engaging, partner-friendly online classes that have helped many families prepare for birth with more clarity and confidence.We get into what it means to prepare early, why most women don't realize how much choice they actually have, and what it looks like to create a safe, grounded birth experience inside a hospital system. From power dynamics with providers to the small, practical things that shift your sense of safety, this conversation breaks down what women and their partners need to know before walking through those hospital doors.You'll Learn:Why choosing the right hospital and provider early changes everythingWhat it feels like to enter a system where you're treated as room number instead of a person giving birthWhy staying home longer in early labor can dramatically shift your hospital experienceThe surprising link between hospital C-section rates and NICU levelsHow eye masks, dim lights, and warm blankets keep your body in labor modeWhen partners step into the role of protector and advocate in the birth roomThe quiet damage of being a passive participant versus owning your birth decisionsWhy hospital classes often train you to be a “good patient” instead of giving you real optionsHow listening to birth stories helps you recognize and avoid common intervention cascadesTimestamps:[00:00] Introduction[03:00] How preparation and safety shape the hospital birth experience[09:22] Rethinking what safety really means in birth[13:01] Choosing the right hospital, provider, and birth team[20:20] The partner's role in protecting space and shifting power dynamics[36:37] Practical ways to protect labor hormones in a hospital birth[50:15] Arming with education and optimizing the hospital environment for laborResources Mentioned:Episode 65: All About VBAC pt.1: Perspectives from an OB, Midwife, and Doula with Care Messer | Spotify or AppleBirth Education Center | WebsiteBucky Eye Mask | AmazonThe Body Keeps the Score by Bessel van der Kolk M.D. | Book or AudiobookMen, Love & Birth by Mark Harris | Book or AudiobookLabor Like A Goddess by Alexandria Moran and Lauren Mahana | BookBirth Psychology | WebsiteMorgan's First Birth | VideoLearn more about the Birth Education Care by visiting their website, YouTube channel, and Facebook page.Follow Care on Instagram, LinkedIn and listen to her Podcast on Apple or Spotify.Find more from Leah:Leah Gordon | InstagramLeah Gordon | WebsiteLeah Gordon | WebsiteFind more from Morgan:Morgan MacDermott | InstagramMorgan MacDermott | WebsiteUse code HEALTHYMOTHER and save 15% at RedmondFor 20% off your first order at Needed, use code HEALTHYMOTHERSave $260 at Lumebox, use code HEALTHYASAMOTHER

When you picture labor and delivery, do you imagine a natural and more relaxed experience? Do you picture yourself soaring through surges by releasing fear and pain and just focusing on what your body was created to do? Hypnobirthing might be the perfect fit! What are the principles behind this childbirth preparation method, and what's needed to be successful? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this special solo episode, I'm recording from home (comfy in bed, laptop in hand!) to catch you up on everything happening in my life right now. At 26 weeks pregnant, I'm reflecting on how my journey is unfolding, the emotional and spiritual connection I feel with my baby, and how this sacred season is shifting my approach to health, career, and even this podcast. I share the highs and lows of pregnancy so far, from nesting mode and hypnobirthing classes to my first pelvic floor therapy session (and the wild stats I learned about strength training while pregnant). I also talk about why I'm making some changes to Pursuit of Wellness during this time, how I'm thinking about maternity leave, and what you can expect from the show moving forward. If you've ever wondered what it feels like to balance wellness, work, and life while preparing for motherhood, this one's for you. For Mari's Instagram click here! For Pursuit of Wellness Podcast's Instagram click here! For Mari's Newsletter click here! For Fi's Instagram click here! Topics Discussed 00:00 Introduction and Personal Updates 02:47 Pregnancy Journey and Nesting 05:43 Career Reflections and Podcast Changes 09:04 Hypnobirthing and Pelvic Floor Therapy Insights 11:53 Closing Thoughts and Future Plans Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Send us a textWhat if the current "broken" postpartum care system isn't really broken... but just incomplete?Maranda sits down with  Ja'Neen Jenkins,  a licensed professional counselor, certified childbirth educator, doula, and postpartum nutrition expert through Postpartum University, brings a rare blend of clinical expertise and personal experience to the table. She's changing the game by bridging the critical gaps in our current maternal healthcare system, offering a holistic approach that addresses everything from nervous system regulation to postpartum mental health and the vital role of postpartum nutrition. Check out the episode on the blog: https://postpartumu.com/podcast/regulating-the-postpartum-nervous-system-janeen-jenkins-ep-227/Key time stamps: 1:42: Janine's unique approach to maternal support3:11: Identifying gaps in provider collaboration and holistic care4:08: The critical role of a trusted liaison in maternal health7:23: The challenges and beauty of pioneering a new care model8:44: Navigating the tension between diagnosis and holistic care12:24: The vital need for nutrition education in therapy13:17: Discussing prevention in perinatal mental health16:29: Nervous system dysregulation vs. mental health diagnoses17:33: Deep dive into nervous system regulation for birth and postpartum19:43: The power of HypnoBirthing and nervous system control21:58: Applying nervous system regulation to motherhood24:43: The role of nutrition in emotional and psychological healing28:07: The power of relationships and collaboration in postpartum careConnect with Ja'Neen: Ja'Neen Jenkins is a Licensed Professional Counselor, certified childbirth educator, doula, and postpartum nutrition expert who specializes in trauma-informed care for the perinatal journey. With a rare blend of clinical expertise and lived experience, she supports mothers through birth prep, emotional healing, and postpartum recovery with compassion and evidence-based tools. As the founder of the Covered Mama Community, she creates spaces where women feel deeply seen, supported, and empowered. Ja'Neen is passionate about helping mothers regulate their nervous systems, process their stories, and reclaim their strength.  Website   NEXT STEPS:

In this episode of The Birth Lounge Podcast, I'm sitting down with Katharine Graves, the powerhouse behind KG Hypnobirthing, to uncover the magic of turning birth into a calm, confident, and downright empowering experience. We're talking about how hypnobirthing can completely change the way you feel about labor, why evidence-based maternity care is non-negotiable, and how partners can be fierce advocates in the birth space. Katharine also breaks down natural birth approaches like water birth, what you need to know about common interventions like inductions and C-sections, and why preparation is your secret weapon for a birth you feel good about. This is your permission slip to take charge of your birth story and make it an experience you actually want to remember. 00:00 Introduction and Guest Introduction 02:52 Katharine Graves on Hypnobirthing 05:20 Challenges and Misconceptions in Modern Birth Practices 20:05 The Role of Partners in Birth 30:15 Comparing Human and Animal Birth Practices 34:35 The Role of C-Sections in Modern Birth 34:54 Challenging Hospital Birth Assumptions 35:52 The Power and Pain of Birth 36:33 Hospital Interventions and Their Impact 39:18 Global Perspectives on Birth Practices 39:59 The Influence of Technology in Birth 40:49 The Debate on Birth Interventions 46:39 The Importance of Informed Choices 47:49 The Concept of Bonus Time in Late Pregnancy 56:37 The Golden Hour and Post-Birth Practices 01:02:57 Addressing Birth Trauma and Hypnobirthing 01:06:22 Final Thoughts and Resources   Guest Bio: Katharine Graves is the founder of KG Hypnobirthing, a leading antenatal pregnancy & birth education programme that has helped thousands of families approach birth with calm, confidence, and informed choice. She's a highly respected hypnobirthing expert - having been the first person to introduce hypnobirthing to the UK. She is also a hypnotherapist and doula as well as being author of The Hypnobirthing Book, selling well over 100,000 copies worldwide. Katharine has spent over 15 years personally teaching over 3,000 parents and 2,000 teachers & maternity professionals how to support physiological, empowering birth. Katharine is deeply passionate about respectful, evidence-based maternity care and the importance of giving women the tools to advocate for themselves during pregnancy and labour. Through her work, she's trained hundreds of midwives and birth professionals, and continues to lead the way in transforming birth culture through education and compassion. SOCIAL MEDIA: Connect with HeHe on IG  Connect with HeHe on YouTube   Connect with Katharine on IG    BIRTH EDUCATION: Join The Birth Lounge here for judgment-free childbirth education that prepares you for an informed birth and how to confidently navigate hospital policy to have a trauma-free labor experience!   Download The Birth Lounge App for birth & postpartum prep delivered straight to your phone!   LINKS MENTIONED: kghb.org/thebirthlounge kghypnobirthing.com   Check out The Hypnobirthing Book here!    Keywords: hypnobirthing, KG Hypnobirthing, Katharine Graves, natural birth, water birth, positive birth, calm birth, empowered birth, birth preparation, partner support in birth, birth advocacy, induction alternatives, avoiding c-section, evidence based birth, childbirth without fear, hypnobirthing techniques, labor comfort measures, natural pain relief birth, pregnancy podcast, The Birth Lounge

In this episode, Charlotte shares her inspiring birth story and experience using hypnobirthing techniques during an unexpected induction due to preeclampsia. She opens up about the challenges of navigating high blood pressure, self-monitoring at home, and the difficult postpartum period that followed, including hospital readmission. Despite the hurdles, Charlotte emphasizes the importance of preparation, self-advocacy, and trusting your instincts. Her story is a powerful reminder that even when things don't go as planned, you can still have a positive and empowering birth experience. Tune in to hear Charlotte's honest reflections and helpful insights for anyone facing similar challenges in pregnancy and beyond. The podcast is taking a short summer break and will be back in September 2025 with brand new episodes. Thank you for your continued support. To learn more about my doula packages visit https://www.thenurturenest.co.uk/doula-services To purchase one of my courses, please visit https://www.thenurturenest.co.uk/courses If you have benefitted from this podcast and would like to say thanks, you can now buy me a coffee! https://www.buymeacoffee.com/thenurturenest View my birthy book recommendations here https://www.amazon.co.uk/shop/influencer-e2ad919d  Follow me on Instagram here https://www.instagram.com/the_nurture_nest/ Follow me on Facebook here https://www.facebook.com/thenurturenesthypno Get 10% off your birth pool here https://go.referralcandy.com/share/JKHGBJ3 Get 10% off a BabyCare TENS Machine. USE CODE 10NURTURENEST http://babycaretens.com?afmc=46

In today's episode, listener Nanouk shares her journey through prenatal depression and labour induction, and how hypnobirthing helped her stay calm and confident. She discusses the emotional challenges of induction and the power of breathing and mindset to manage fear. Key Points: Coping with prenatal depression Navigating labour induction Using hypnobirthing to stay relaxed and trust your body If you're experiencing prenatal depression, remember you're not alone — help is available. Here are some UK organisations offering support:

Links: Airdoctorpro.com code BIRTHHOUR for up to $400 off! Know Your Options Online Childbirth Course - use code 100OFF for $100 off. Beyond the First Latch Course (comes free with KYO course)  Support The Birth Hour via Patreon! You can now gift memberships to Patreon here! Carolyn's first birth story can be found here. 

In today's episode, I'm joined by Emy, a listener who shares her beautifully calm and instinct-led first birth story. Originally from Sweden and now living in Bristol, Emy talks about how hypnobirthing helped her prepare mentally, release fear, and embrace the unknowns of birth with confidence and positivity. From early surges at home to a magical birthing suite experience, Emy's story is full of empowering moments, supportive instincts, and wonderful reminders of how important it is to trust your body. This is a birth story you won't want to miss—especially if you're preparing for your first birth. A huge thank you to Emy for sharing her story so openly!

Episode Summary: In this solo episode, I dive into one of the most common questions I'm asked: Is hypnobirthing enough? If you've completed a course or are thinking about starting one, this episode is essential listening. I explore what hypnobirthing teaches you, why it's a powerful foundation, but also why it's just the beginning of truly preparing for a positive birth experience. I unpack how deeper education, regular practice, and understanding the maternity system are key to feeling empowered and supported — especially when birth doesn't go according to plan. In this episode, I talk about: Why hypnobirthing is more than a checklist item How the maternity system impacts your birth experience The importance of informed decision-making and knowing your rights What else you need to do beyond a course to feel truly prepared The crucial role of your birth partner and how they can confidently advocate for you Why preparation for the postpartum period matters just as much Whether you're planning a home birth, birth centre experience, or hospital delivery, this episode will help you reflect, refocus, and rethink what “being ready” for birth really looks like.

Hi friends! We are back. So sorry for the little pause to help me catch up after one of the worst sick seasons my house has seen.In this episode of Picking Daisies, Mary sits down with Kristin Revere — doula, podcast host, founder of Gold Coast Doulas, and author of Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby — to have a raw and powerful conversation about what it truly means to feel supported in motherhood.They unpack the critical role doulas play in the birthing and postpartum experience — not just as birth experts, but as compassionate advocates who help women feel seen, heard, and held in one of life's most transformational moments. From personal stories to generational perspectives, hypnobirthing to loss support, this conversation touches every corner of what support really looks like when you're growing through what you go through.They also explore the cultural stigma around asking for help, how education can empower moms, and why support in motherhood should never be treated like a luxury.Whether you're preparing for birth, healing from it, or just wondering how to show up better for yourself or the people you love — this episode is packed with insight, validation, and a gentle reminder that you don't have to do it all alone.TAKEAWAYS:Doulas offer critical emotional, physical, and informational support throughout childbirth.Hypnobirthing empowers women through positive language and visualization techniques.Loss doulas provide vital care and comfort during some of the hardest moments of parenthood.Generational beliefs can shape the way we view support in birth and postpartum.Doulas help partners feel more prepared and involved in the birthing process.New moms often feel isolated — doulas can be a lifeline in those early days.Cultural norms often stigmatize asking for help, making support feel like a privilege instead of a right.Education about birth options leads to more confident, empowered parents.A birth preference sheet helps care teams support the birthing person more intentionally.Kristin's book Supported offers a judgment-free, inclusive approach to navigating pregnancy, birth, and early parenting.MENTIONED IN THIS EPISODE:Kristin Revere's book: Supported: Your Guide to Birth and BabyGold Coast Doulas: goldcoastdoulas.comAsk the Doulas PodcastJoin Mary everyday for a real look into life with 3 crazy ass kids, surviving, thriving, and whatever the F else you might consider over at www.instagram.com/theverymarylife. Or if you're a Tik Tok fan, find me at https://www.tiktok.com/@theverymarylife. And of course, explore more on Theverymarylife.com

Johanna is a girl mama joining us today from Canada. She had an unplanned C-section with her first, an HBAC with her second, and was pregnant with her third at the time of recording! Johanna reflects on her experiences with both supportive and unsupportive care during her pregnancies. Meagan and Johanna dive into your options surrounding PROM,  the significance of intuition in decision-making, the impact of provider choices on birth outcomes, and the nuances of VBAC postpartum recovery.The VBAC Link Blog: Home Birth VBACEverything You Need for Your HBACSupportive Providers10 Signs to Switch Your ProviderWhat to Do When Your Water BreaksLabor GuideCoterie Diapers - Use code VBAC20 for 20% offHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength. We have our friend Johanna with us from Canada today, and she's going to be sharing her HBAC story. So for those who may be , new to the VBAC world, or just all of the acronyms that the VBAC world has, HBAC is pronounced home birth after Cesarean. So if you are one of those who really wants to look into all of your options for birthing locations, which I encourage everyone to do, definitely listen up here. We're going to be talking about a lot of really great things including picking a provider and PROM knowing that you maybe had a provider that wasn't ideal the first time and more about HBAC. So we are going to be diving into a lot of really, really great, juicy topics. But in place our review today, Johanna and I are actually going to talk a little bit more about picking the right provider. So, Johanna, welcome to the show.Johanna: Thank you.Meagan: I am so excited for you to be with us today and so grateful that you are here to talk about this topic. Because like I was saying before we pressed record, I see daily in our community, every single day, and not even just our community, in other VBAC communities or this is weird, but people's statuses, like my friends and family's statuses on Facebook, where you type like, "Hey, I'm looking for this," or "I'm feeling very frustrated," or "I need prayers." People will seriously say, "I don't know what to do, you guys. Has anybody ever heard of VBAC?" on their own status? But especially in the VBAC groups, I see people and I just want to yell, "Hey, you over there. You're with the wrong provider" or, "Hey, you should move." That's a really hard thing because especially when I type that it can be like, oh my gosh, who is this broad telling me that I'm with the wrong provider and that I chose wrong? I'm not trying to say that. I'm not trying to say you chose wrong. Like, how dare you choose wrong? It's just like, hey, what you're telling us in this community is screaming, you're the wrong provider. So, Johanna, you , mentioned before we press record that you realized after your first birth that you were with the wrong provider. What made you realize that you were with the wrong provider? And were there signs during pregnancy that you recognized and maybe pushed away? Or was it really not something that you recognized until after? Because I know really, it can go both ways.Johanna: Yeah, I think that there were signs during the pregnancy. I mean, one of them, and I just didn't listen to my gut because you don't know what you don't know. I put too much blind faith that it was all gonna work out. But I never felt comfortable with her. I didn't have a good connection with her. I was asking a lot of questions about what I can be doing because my first birth, I really wanted to be a home birth. She basically just didn't give me very much information about what I can be doing. She sent me to your generic birth course through the hospital. Yeah. I didn't really feel like she was really invested in the outcome of my birth. I was just like another one of her patients. So I didn't feel great about that. And then when push came to shove with my birth and things weren't going great, she threw her hands up in the air and just took a step back and didn't really advocate for me or try and help me through things. So I was left with a pretty unpleasant taste in my mouth.Meagan: Yeah, I mean, exactly what you said just a minute ago. You didn't feel that she was invested in the outcome of your birth. And then it proved. It proved to be true when she just threw her arms up. So you had that experience, and you're not alone. There are so many of us out there. Me too, me included and a lot of people on The VBAC Link team included. We have all been in a similar situation where our providers, threw our hands up, weren't invested in our birth and our experience and had to go out there and seek that support that we deserved. So if there's anything we talk about on The VBAC Link, and I'm sure you've heard it, is find the right provider. I mean, seriously, you guys, I say it daily, every single day. If I'm not typing it, if I'm not voice memo-ing it, if I'm not saying it in my mind, it's find the right provider. Johanna, what would you give for tips for our listeners to find that right provider? And how did you find that right provider?Johanna: So I found my midwife that I used for my second birth and I'm actually using again for my third birth because I am 31 weeks pregnant today.Meagan: Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. Yay.Johanna: I found her actually because when I got pregnant for the second time, the first thing I did was get a doula.Meagan: Uh-huh.Johanna: I asked her for recommendations on a VBAC friendly midwife. She had recommended this midwife. So immediately I was like, yes, I would like to meet her. When I met her, instantly, I felt so much more at ease.So I would say going with your gut. If something doesn't feel right, even if it's the tiniest thing, just look for a new provider. Just find someone where it feels right.Meagan: Yeah. I can relate to that so much because that's how I was feeling. I was searching, I was searching, I was searching. I mean, it was insane. I interviewed a lot of providers, but that's what I was searching for is that immediate like, oh, I'm in the right place. You are my person. And it took me a long time. And that sucks. It sucks that it took so long. I know that in some areas they're really rural and it's almost impossible to find that feeling. But I agree. So just as a reminder for those looking, before we get into the story, I wanted to make sure that you know to ask open-ended questions. Do not say, "Do you support VBAC? Yes or no?" Do not say, "Do you support me to go to 40 weeks? Yes or no?"Let's ask open ended questions. "How do you feel if I approach my due date and I haven't had a baby yet? How do you feel about VBAC? What is your experience with VBAC? How do you support your VBAC clients to make sure patients get the birth that they want? How do you advocate for them?"Asking these big open ended questions and then like Johanna said, diving deep. What is your heart and your gut feeling and saying? If at any point you are questioning, which I think is when people come out on social media, that is when I think they comment and they're writing, "Hey, I'm, feeling defeated. Hey, this is what my provider said." It's because they're doubting. They're questioning. That's their intuition. If that even comes into play at all, it's time to switch. It is time to switch. And first-time parents, if you are out there listening, this applies to you too, right? We have to avoid these unnecessary Cesareans which are happening all over the world. We have to follow our intuition. So that's another thing we talk about until we're blue in the face-- intuition. So follow that intuition. Ask open ended questions. Really dive in deep because your provider really can make an impact.And really, really quickly, we're going to just barely skim the surface on PROM. PROM is premature rupture of membranes. Johanna and I have both experienced it. She's two for two. I'm three for three. Maybe you won't be three for three girl. I don't know. I'm hoping you're not. Johanna: Fingers crossed. Meagan: I'm hoping you won't. But if you are, we know that it's okay. Vaginal birth still happen. But talking about providers, if you have PROM, which means your water breaks before labor begins, and just to let you know, it can take hours, even days for your body to turn over into labor after your water breaks. But if you have PROM and you don't have a supportive provider, that is right there the beginning of a fight. It shouldn't have to be a fight, but that can impact things because they want to get things going. Some providers won't even induce labor or touch you or 12 hours later they're like, "Nope, you haven't had a baby. You have to have a C-section." So yeah. So really quick Johanna, do you have any tips for our listeners who might have had PROM or may have PROM?Johanna: Yeah, it's difficult because especially when I experienced it, I mean, I experienced it for both births and the second time I really felt anxious because I was like, oh no, I'm on a ticking time-clock again.Meagan: Yeah, yeah. Because that's how you were treated.Johanna: Yes. I was lucky that I have a super supportive provider. And she was like, "Baby's fine, you're fine, everything's fine. We're just going to wait it out."Yeah, I mean crucial to have the right provider that is going to give you that grace and give you that time and that space, but just know the facts. Just arm yourself with information that as long as the fluid is clear, as long as you have no signs of infection-- at least here they make you come in for non-stress tests like every, I don't know if it's 12 hours or 24 hours when your water has broken. As long as everything's looking okay, you can wait, I think, up to 72 hours.Meagan: I've actually even had a client wait five days. Johanna: Holy smokes. Meagan: Five days. Close monitoring you guys, really close monitoring. But it was nothing that said a baby needed to be born. So five days is maybe abnormal. This was a home birth transfer to hospital. Even with five days rupture of membranes, the hospital did not "make" her, as I'm putting quotes up, have a Cesarean or do anything different because she advocated for herself. But it really can. 72 hours. It really can happen. So okay, we are going to stop talking about this, you guys. We're going to have links in the show notes to dive deeper into questions for your provider. What about premature rupture of membranes and things like that. So we're going to have those in the show notes if you want to dive more into that. You can dive in. But we're going to take one quick break for the intro, and then turn the time over to Johanna. Okay girl, thank you so much for chatting with me about that. I really do think it's so important.Johanna: I think knowledge about everything is your best friend when you're planning for any birth, but especially a VBAC.Meagan: Right. I know. It does suck that VBAC has to be so much more intense in our prep and our research and all these things because we're just moms going in to have vaginal births. That's all we are. But, but unfortunately that's not how it's viewed. That's just not how it's viewed in most areas of the world. So yeah, all right. Let's talk about that first birth.Johanna: Okay. So I got pregnant with my first daughter Mila in the summer of 2020. So heavy, COVID times. So that was scary enough. Because of COVID and the shift in culture towards socialization and going into hospitals and stuff like that, me and my husband decided to look into home birth which was not really on my radar before, but the more that I looked into it, I was like, oh, this is super beautiful, and I love the idea of birthing my baby at home in the piece and quiet of our own space.Meagan: Yeah. And a lot safer than a lot of people think.Johanna: Yeah. Yeah, for sure. The more I looked into it, the more I was like, okay. This is a totally viable option for us. I had a pretty uneventful pregnancy. I was very lucky. I had very minimal symptoms. Everything went well. I didn't have anything scary happened during the pregnancy. I will say that I didn't take the best care of myself. I am usually a pretty active person and I totally just didn't do much exercise or working out. I think in the back of my mind, I was scared that something bad was going to happen if I overdid it. It was just a lot of first-time mom anxieties.Meagan: Totally get it.Johanna: Yep. I didn't eat the best. I didn't take the best care of myself. I didn't do a whole lot to prep for the birth other than your typical childbirthing classes, bringing baby home through the hospital, generic courses that I think a lot of first-time moms, that's what they do, right? I read a couple of books. I read the What to Expect books, and I think I read Ina May's Guide to Childbirth.Meagan: Great book.Johanna: Yep. But I had no idea what to expect. When it came to labor and birth, I really was going in blind. I will say, I just put my faith in that my provider was going to hold my hand through it. That was a mistake. So yeah, I mean, it was a pretty uneventful pregnancy. There wasn't a whole lot to say other than it was COVID and everything was scary and didn't really know what was going on. When I was 41-ish weeks, my water ended up breaking. It was the middle of the night, and I didn't really know what happened. It was just like a little squirt and went back to bed. And in the morning, it was like when you move a position and a little bit comes out and you move a position and a little bit. It was one of those. And then I lost my mucus plug. So I was like, oh, I better call my midwife. So I gave her a call, and she totally brushed me off. She was like, "No, I think it's probably just discharge. I wouldn't worry about it." So that was another red flag was her just totally brushing off my feelings and what I believed was going on. So I hung up the phone and I was like, well, I don't really know what to do now. I'm fairly certain that my water's broken. So I waited a couple of hours, and it continued to trickle out. I eventually called her again and she was like, "Okay, okay, you can come in. You can come in and I'll check, but I'm pretty sure it's just discharge." So I went in and sure enough, she was like, "Oh, your water did break and it's amniotic fluids. Look at that."Meagan: Interesting.Johanna: Yeah, I could have told you that. So I was like, "Well, what do we do now?" And she was like, "Well, we can wait up to 72 hours as long as everything's healthy. That's fine, so we'll keep monitoring things." She sent me home and told me to just relax. She said, "If labor doesn't pick up today, go to bed and in the morning, do a castor oil induction." I did that. When I woke up the next morning and nothing had happened, I did do the castor oil induction. I will say that I will never do that again because it was horrible. Sorry for the TMI, but it just gave me severe diarrhea, and then nothing happened, and I was super uncomfortable. So that wasn't fun. That wasn't fun. That didn't work.I went in for a non-stress test that afternoon. She decided to check me, and I had made zero progress. I was not dilated at all. I had zero effacement or anything like that, so no progress. I felt super discouraged. My water has been broken for however long at this point-- 36 hours, I think, probably. I've made no progress. The castor oil induction and failed. I had barely slept the night before, so I was tired and I was just stressed. I was like, when is this going to happen?Meagan: But at this point you weren't really thriving with contractions. Nothing was too intense to be telling you that there should be progress, right?Johanna: Literally not a single contraction or anything. Nothing was happening.Meagan: True PROM, and so your defeating feeling is super normal because in our minds we were told our water breaks, we should be having a baby. But if we have PROM, don't expect to be dilated. Right?Johanna: Yes.Meagan: I did too. I expected to be way dilated and I wasn't.Johanna: So I felt super defeated. And like I said, I wasn't sleeping. I barely got any sleep the night before because I was just anxious for birth to get going. I ended up crying in her office about how stressed I was to end up in a C-section because my sister had a long, pretty terrible labor that ended in a C-section. It was just not a great experience for her. I don't exactly remember what my midwife said, but I did not feel reassured leaving that appointment. But we did end up deciding that if I didn't go into labor that night, I was going to be induced the next morning because I was just not sleeping well. I was not able to rest and relax because I was just anxious. So I was like, okay. I guess my home birth plan is out the window, but at least there's a plan. I ended up going home. We had dinner, and I started getting contractions just after dinner which was exciting.Meagan: Yeah.Johanna: But then they petered off after, like, I don't know, an hour or two. So we went to bed, had the hospital bags packed and everything ready to go for an induction the next morning. Labor started around 2:00 AM. It started on its own around 2:00 AM.Meagan: How many total hours is this until labor comes?Johanna: I think it was about 48 hours after my water broke that I had the rupture of membranes that my labor actually started. I will say, it was pretty intense right off the hob. I hear a lot of women say that their early labor is like, "Oh, I took my other kids for a walk. I baked a cake. I did this. I did that to distract myself." My labors are not like that. My labors are intense right out the gate. I tried to eat something for breakfast. A few hours after that, I woke my husband up. We tried to eat breakfast. I got in the bathtub to try and relieve some of the discomfort. I hung out in there for a while. We had rented a birth tub. My husband got that set up. I called my midwife. She came probably around 11:00 AM, so at that point, I'd probably been laboring for like, I don't know, eight or nine hours. I was not coping well. It was very intense and I was not coping well with the pain. She checked me, and I was a 3. I was like, dang it. In my mind, what I know now is that it's not a linear thing and that it's not going to take another 18 hours to go from a 3 to 9. But in my mind then I was like, oh no, I can't do this for however many more hours because I'm already not coping well and I'm only at a 3. So I told her I was totally deflated and I told her, "I want to go to the hospital and get an epidural." She was like, "Okay, if that's what you want to do, that's fine." So I think between the time that she checked me and I was at a 3 and the time that I got the epidural, it was about two hours. That car ride to the hospital, wow, was not fun. But yes. So, in that two hours that it took between her checking me and me getting the epidural, she checked me again right as soon as it kicked in and I was at a 9.Meagan: Whoa.Johanna: Yeah. Meagan: 0 to 100. Johanna: Yeah, when I say that car ride, it was ripping through me.Meagan: Yeah, you were in transition at that point.Johanna: Yeah. When we were in the hospital waiting for the anesthesiologist to come in and do the epidural, my midwife and husband are joking around trying to make me laugh. I'm like, "This is not where are at right now." I was not having it because, obviously, I was in transition, and it just was not where I was at. So yeah, she was like, "Okay, well you're at a 9 now, that's great. So rest for an hour and then we'll probably be pushing." The epidural was heavy. I felt nothing from my ribs down. So an hour went by and she's like, "Hey, you're complete. Start pushing." I felt nothing. I'm trying to push, and she's telling me that I'm doing a pretty good job considering I have an epidural, but baby was still high. And then all of a sudden, I think I'd pushed a couple of times and all of a sudden, all of these doctors and nurses and bunch of people just start run into the room and they're all speaking French because it's a French speaking hospital.Meagan: Oh my gosh.Johanna: So I have no idea what's going on. Nobody is telling me anything. They're all speaking a different language. And I was just like, "Can somebody please tell me in English what's going on?" They told me that she was having late decal every time that I was pushing.Meagan: Okay.Johanna: So between pushes she was fine, but every time I'd push, her heart rate would go down and then have trouble recovering. At no point did anybody recommend maybe trying a position change or anything like that. Like maybe her cord was being pinched in that position. If only I knew now or knew then what I know now.Meagan: Yeah, like hydration, movement, doing something, pushing in a different position.Johanna: Yeah, yeah no. So like I said, my midwife threw her hands up and stepped back and let the OB take over and didn't say anything to me after that. The OB basically let me push three times and then was like, "Nope, this is going to take too long. We need to have a C-section," and she called a C-section.Meagan: Wow. Do you remember how low your baby's heart rate was getting?Johanna: No, I have no idea.Meagan: Okay, interesting. I mean late deceleration are less ideal, right? We don't want them to happen late. We want that to be the recovery period.But yeah, there could have been some things done.Johanna: Yeah, and looking back, it's frustrating to know that maybe if one little thing had been changed, the outcome could have been totally different.Yeah, but you can't blame yourself for that either. It's hard to look back and be like, the what if's. But yes, you did whatever you did in the moment with the information you were given.Johanna: Exactly. So I went in for the C-section. It went fine. There were no complications, but being strapped down to a table in a really cold room and having the shakes and not feeling that, not being the person to get to hold your baby. I mean, everyone listening to this podcast pretty much knows what thats like and how it was demoralizing and traumatizing for sure. But it went fine. She was born healthy. I didn't have any complications. But yeah, the emotional trauma was real and not just for me, but for my husband too. We got discharged about 24 hours after the C-section and going home and seeing the birth tub still set up in our living room was a very emotional experience. We both ended up breaking down crying.Meagan: Yeah.Johanna: So I had to do a lot of emotional recovery from that birth as well as physical recovery because the physical recovery from C-section was also extremely rough. I remember every time I would have to get up out of bed, it felt like I was being ripped in half. It's rough, but I knew right from the moment she was born that I would be VBACing my next baby because we had always planned on having a few kids.Meagan: I want to point out to everyone, too, the importance of postpartum support and postpartum help and planning. We never know the outcomes of birth. I didn't know the outcomes. I didn't realize that it was going to take me 15 minutes to walk 10 stairs up to my bedroom. I didn't realize it was going to take me 15 minutes to walk down the stairs. I couldn't be holding anything. I didn't realize how exhausting it was going to be to get out of bed to go to the restroom let alone taking care of a newborn baby and also thriving as an individual. So it's really important to really try not to ignore the postpartum period. I think it's easy to do because we're so focused on the birth. Especially with VBAC, I think we're so hyper, hyper focused on that VBAC, that outcome, and that experience which I do not shame anyone for being. I just want to plug it in. Don't forget about your postpartum because whether it's physical or emotional.You came back to this space of seeing a plan that didn't unfold the way you wanted it to. That can be very emotional, very traumatic even in some ways. So yeah, having some resources for postpartum as well. I just want to plug that in.Johanna: Yeah, that's a really good point. I did no prep for postpartum for my first birth.Meagan: Me either.Johanna: It wasn't even something that like dawned on me to think about. When I was in postpartum, I was like, wow, this is really intense. Like the sleep deprivation, the recovery, the breastfeeding, everything. It;s super intense. So for sure, don't neglect postpartum plans and getting the support that you need.Meagan: Yeah.Johanna: So anyway, I think from a couple weeks postpartum with Mila, I ended up finding your podcast and absolutely just binging it and trying to intake any knowledge I could get about VBAC natural childbirth-- just anything I could get my hands on, I was consuming because I knew that I was going to VBAC. I knew that I wanted to have a birth that was as intervention-free as possible for my second. So I ended up getting pregnant with my second daughter Bailey in the summer of 2022. The very first thing I did was I hired a doula. I already knew what doula I wanted before we even got pregnant because we had interviewed a few, and the doula that I found was actually a VBAC mom herself. And she just had a beautiful calming energy about her. I was like yep, that's who I want. So with that test, the lines turned pink, and I was already getting her on board. I ended up hiring the midwife that she recommended as well. I was intent on doing everything that I could this second pregnancy to set myself up for a successful VBAC that I could possibly do because I knew that if I did everything that I could possibly do and it still ended up in a C-section, then I don't have to have any lingering questions of well, what if I had done this? So it was like, I was going to do everything I could to set myself up for success. I was super diligent with eating well, exercising, and chiropractic care. I did all of the Spinning Babies' exercises, walking, and yoga. I did a HypnoBirthing course which I really, really liked, and I'm doing again for this pregnancy. I put up my birth affirmations. I did all the things You name it, I did it. My husband was super, super amazing and supportive and he was there with me every step of the way through every appointment and did all the coursework with me and everything like that. I'm very lucky to have a super supportive husband. I had another pretty uneventful easy going pregnancy. Other than a little bit more morning sickness and some SPD, it was pretty easy. I will say there's one thing that they make you do here, and I don't know if you guys have to do it in the US but if you're planning for a VBAC you have to see an OB around 36-37 weeks. Do you guys have to do that as well?Meagan: Yeah, so not if you're out-of-hospital. You don't have to do it. Some midwives still out-of- hospital will be like, "Hey, I want you to consult with a partnering physician," as in, "Hey, this is someone we would transfer to.: I went a consult with them, but with the midwives in hospital they require them to do a VBAC consult, and it's pretty much a visit where the OB is like, "Hey, this is what you're doing. Here is your risk. Do you comply?"Yeah.Johanna: Yes. So I ended up having to do that, and I knew it was going to be a negative experience. I knew it was just going to be fear-mongering and throwing scary statistics out. So I already had my guard up for that. And then it was also at the hospital where I had my C-section, so even just walking into that environment was very triggering.Meagan: Yeah. So I went to that and I was right. She told me, "As soon as you go into labor, you need to go to the hospital and you should have continual monitoring and and epidural just in case," and all of these things where I'm just like, no, that so goes against everything that I believe will lead to like a healthy, happy birth.I definitely didn't tell her about my plans. I actually was hoping this would end up in a home birth. I didn't actually mention this. My plan-- I didn't want to commit to a home birth. I was a little bit anxious because of my first birth ending up transferring to hospital, that I would end up having to do that again and then have that crushing disappointment that it didn't work out again. So my plan with my midwife was that I was going to labor at home as long as possible, and we were going to play it by ear. As long as everything was going well, then I would potentially have her at home. But I just didn't want to have that pressure that I needed to stay home because this was going to be a home birth. Do you know what I mean?Meagan: No, I totally do. I mean, when I was planning my, it wasn't a HBAC, it was a birth center birth. It's like a downplayed HBAC. I mean, I was in a different home. Right. I totally do. I know exactly what you mean.Johanna: Yeah.Meagan: Yeah, yeah.Johanna: So yeah, I definitely did not tell the OB that my plan was to have a home birth because I just did not even did not want to get into that. So I nodded my head and was like, "Yes, sure. Okay, great."Meagan: Yep.Johanna: At one point, also during my midwifery care for the second pregnancy, my midwife was like, "It's standard for you. The hospital wants you to sign a release form with a backup C-section date."Meagan: What?Johanna: And I was just like, "Yeah, I will also not be doing that." And she was like, "That is totally fine. Just sign that you won't do that." Meagan: I do not consent. Yeah, I do not consent in doing this.Johanna: Yeah, yeah. I was like, I don't need that to clock above my head.Meagan: No.Johanna: So again, my due date arrived and passed. I ended up getting a couple membrane sweeps to try and move things along, but they were unsuccessful. And wow, they are very, very painful.Meagan: So can I super quick touch on that?Johanna: Yes.Meagan: Membrane sweeps-- that's a really big question we see as well. And when you talk about them being painful, that's actually a sign that the cervix wasn't ready. Like it wasn't forward. It wasn't open. If a membrane sweep is painful, it's a real big sign-- it's not a guarantee, but it's a real big sign that your cervix isn't ready. So quick rule of thumb, if you are dilated 2+ centimeters, 3 or more is more ideal. Your cervix is really forward, meaning they don't have to reach back and in, and you are effaced at least 75-80%, that's a little bit more ideal and less painful. But if they are going back, a lot of the times is because they have to reach back and in. And so that is, that is that. And then it can cause pain, prodromal labor, things like that and, and frustration because you're wanting it to work and it's not working.Johanna: Yes. So yeah, they didn't work for me, but my midwife did tell me that I was actually 3 centimeters and she could stretch me to 3. Meagan: Great. So you were at least dilated.Johanna: Yes. So despite the fact that it was super painful and didn't work, I was still feeling very encouraged to know that my body was doing something good. Meagan: YesJohanna: Because you'll remember my first birth, I was completely closed and nothing was happening after my water broke. So I was feeling pretty good about that. At about 40 weeks and 4 days, my water broke again before labor started. It was another one of those slow trickles, and it was the middle of the afternoon, so I called my midwife, and she was like, "Okay, come meet me." She asked if the fluid was clear and I said, "Yes." And she said, "Okay, come meet me at the office later, and we'll do the non-stress test and check you out and make sure everything's dandy." So I went and everything was fine. We were just waiting again for labor to start. I felt okay because I had been through this before, and I knew my body would go into labor, but at the back of my mind I was a little bit stressing out because I was like, okay, I'm on a clock again. I went home. Nothing happened. I woke up the next day and tried to get things going with the breast pump. That got contractions going, but they never stuck around. I ended up confiding with my doula about how stressed I was feeling that I was on a clock and feeling like why can't my body just go into labor? She was extremely reassuring. She came over, and we just talked for a bit, and I felt a lot better after that. That was in the evening, the day after my water broke, and I was supposed to go in for a non-stress test. So I went and met my midwife for a non-stress test that night. It was 36-ish hours after my water had broke. Still, everything was looking good. Baby was good. She was happy. I was fine. There was no need to rush into an induction or anything like that. But she could tell I was stressed. My midwife could tell that I was a bit stressed and she was like, "It's fine. We've got lots of time. You don't need distress.: And she's like, "But I can give you these tinctures or whatever if you want to try them." It was like the blue or black. Meagan: Cohosh.Johanna: Cohosh, yes. I was like "Sure, I'll do anything at this point. I'll try anything. I don't care. So they almost look like tiny, tiny little white beads. I don't know if they're always in the same form.Meagan: Yeah, sometimes they're in drops like tincture drops or almost like you said, a pill-like bead type. Johanna: So she was like, "Okay, let's give you one now." She wanted me to take four doses an hour apart.Meagan: Did you put them under your tongue?Johanna: Yeah. So she got me to take one when I arrived for the non-stress test and then when the non-stress test was over, it had been about an hour, so she gave me a second dose, and then she sent me home with two more. So we went home, and then I took one an hour after the previous dose and it was probably 10:30 at night at that point. Contractions started going after I took the third dose and I was like okay, they're probably going to peter out again because that's what they've been doing all day. I'm tired and I want to go to bed and I don't feel like staying up another hour to take the fourth dose. So me and my husband both took a gravel because my midwife told me to take a gravel and go to sleep.Meagan: What's a gravel?Johanna: A gravel is like an anti-nausea medication, but it makes you sleepy.Meagan: I did not know that. I've never heard of that. I don't think I've never heard it.Johanna: Yeah. Interesting.Meagan: Cool. I love learning. A gravel.Johanna: Gravel.Meagan: Yeah. Okay.Johanna: So yeah, she told me to take one and go to sleep because it makes you drowsy. So I think we had fallen asleep for maybe an hour and a half and I was woken up again with very intense contractions. And this time I was like okay, this is it for real. And like I said, with both my labors, contractions were intense straight out of the gate. So I woke my husband up. Taking the gravel was a mistake because we were both super drowsy. I woke him up and I was like, "I think you need to call the doula because this is definitely happening." And so he called her over and I labored in bed. I did my HypnoBirthing tracks. I did a lot of breathing through the contractions and the HypnoBirthing was super, super helpful, I will say that. We hung out for a while and just did that. My husband tried his best to stay awake despite how tired he was. Eventually, I think I waited maybe a bit longer than I probably should have to call my midwife because I was so determined to stay at home as long as possible. I didn't want her to come and be like oh, you're a 3, right?Meagan: See? Your mind. Even in labor we trigger back. We process things as they're happening from how they happened before, and it's really hard to let go. But your mind was doing it too, right? You're like no, I can't do this because I can't be that.Johanna: Yes. So what we waited, I think it was, I don't know. I have no concept of time. But we waited a couple hours or a few hours and my doula was like, "I think we should call the midwife." I was like, "Okay, can you call her?" So we called her and shortly after we called her, I was having contractions so intense that I was having an out-of-body experience. Like very, very intense. I was getting the shakes and hot and cold lashes. In my mind I was like, I'm going through transition. For sure, for sure. I'm going through transition. My midwife was not there yet and she would not arrive for probably like another hour.Meagan: You progress quickly from history.Johanna: Yes. So, by the time she arrived, she ran upstairs to my room. She checked me and she's like, "Okay, you're at an 8, so if you want to do a hospital transfer, if you want to go, we've got to go now." And I was like, "No, that ship has sailed. We're doing this here. As long as Bailey's healthy and I'm healthy, I'd like to stay here." So she was like, "Okay, we're doing this here." And she called over the other midwife because she wasn't actually sure that it was going to be a home birth, so she didn't have the other midwife with her, so she had to call the secondary midwife to show up. It was all very hectic. This time around, I plan on calling them much more ahead of time so that it's not so hectic when they arrived because lights got turned on, equipment was shuffled around and set up and definitely took away from the vibe a little bit. But yeah. So shortly after she arrived, I was complete and I had that very stereotypical moment where you feel like you got a poo.Meagan: And sometimes you just hold back because you're like, oh crap, wait. Do I need go poo first or should I have? Wait, what should I do? I don't know. I want to have the baby, but I don't want to poop.Johanna: Exactly. So I was like, "Oh my gosh, I feel like I have to poo." My midwife's like, "It's okay. This is normal. You're good." She was just encouraging me to just do what I felt like I needed to do. I ended up pushing for probably an hour, give or take, in a sumo squat position with my midwife on one side and my doula on the other side and then my husband would switch out for the midwife supporting me on either side. And yeah, I only had to push for maybe an hour, give or take. Her head got a little bit squeezed at one point when she was coming out, so when she came out, she was in a bit of shock. Because of where I was in my room, and the equipment was on the other side, my midwife had to make the decision to clamp and cut her cord and take her over to their equipment to give her a little bit of help which was very scary. She didn't end up needing oxygen, but they thought that she might. So she ended up being okay, but it was definitely a scary couple of minutes where I didn't know what was going on. But yeah, she ended up being okay. The only thing I was a little bit disappointed in was the second time around, not being the one who gets to be the one to hold my baby and bring her to my chest and missing out on that experience again.Meagan: Yeah.Johanna: But obviously I was amazed that I had done it. I had gotten my home birth, I had gotten my VBAC. I was in shock.Meagan: I can so relate. Sometimes you're so focused on pushing that baby coming out, and then it happens and you're like, am I dreaming that this happen? And you're looking around and you're like blinking and you're like, no, I'm awake. I just did this. I just did this. And you're so excited.Johanna: I was still in La La Land because I had labored so hard for eight hours and yeah, you're out of it and just in disbelief.Meagan: Yeah. Yeah.Johanna: Like, did this really just happen?Meagan: But it did. It just happened.Johanna: Yeah. So that was a really good feeling. Recovery was like night and day. I could immediately just go and have a nice shower and walk back to my bed and crawl into my bed. It was comfortable and I wasn't in pain. I had mobility, and I could lift my baby up. It was a good feeling. Although I will say that without the epidural, the fundal massage was a really unpleasant experience.Meagan: Yes. So for everyone that doesn't maybe know, fundal massage is something that they do after labor and delivery, they essentially put their hand, sometimes fist. Now it's not like they punch you, but think about a fist. Look at the bottom of your fist. They put the bottom of their fist along your uterus, the top of your uterus. They push down and massage. They push down and they massage. And sometimes they do it three or so times. You take a deep breath, they do it. You take a deep breath, they do it. And why they're doing that is because they're checking to one, make sure your uterus is clamping back down to its normal size right after birth and the placenta is out. It starts doing its job and going boop boop, boop, right back down to its normal size. But sometimes it can get a little boggy or bleeding can occur. So yeah, you want to make sure that. Now, really quick tip. If for some reason your uterus is still staying boggy and not clamping down as much, something you can try to do if you are able is urinate. Go to the restroom. That's a really big thing to help the uterus clamp back down. And even if you have an epidural, sometimes you have to get a straight cath. And if you can't go to the bathroom, sometimes you can get a straight cath to release. But yeah, that is not as friendly when you're unmedicated. But take deep breaths. If you can, get that baby on your chest or hold someone's hand-- your doula, your partner, your midwife, anybody's hand and just take really deep breaths and know that it's okay. It's okay. It doesn't last too long. But yeah.Johanna: So going back to our chat about postpartum.Meagan: Yeah.Johanna: So the recovery of vaginal versus C-section night and day for sure. But I will say that my postpartum with Bailey was way harder than with my first. It had nothing to do with the birth. I think she was asynclitic in my uterus. And so when she came out, she had a pretty bad case of torticollis and a tongue tie which made breastfeeding very difficult. I got mastitis twice in the first four weeks, like a really bad case twice in the first four weeks. I ended up with a bad case of food poisoning at three weeks postpartum.Meagan: Oh no.Johanna: And I had some prolapse symptoms as well. I will say that there were a lot of things happening in the first month, month and a half of my postpartum that I didn't expect and were very intense and difficult. I mean, just for breastfeeding, I was in so much pain that there were many times that I wanted to just give up and be like, nope, never mind. Forget this.So having good lactation support was really crucial.Meagan: Oh yes. And get lactation support before you have your baby. It sounds weird. It sounds really strange to connect with someone about breastfeeding before your baby is born. But oh my gosh, you guys, it's so impactful. I mean, we've talked about it before with The Lactation Network and other IBCLC supports. It's so important. I had similar. So my baby was born be a Cesarean. So in a Cesarean, a baby can also develop torticollis too with the way they are and the way they come out. But my baby had torticollis and she had a tongue tie. So very, very difficult. Challenging for sure and frustrating.It can impact things like mastitis and yeah, I love that you pointed that out. My was recovery all around better, but that doesn't mean my experience was all sunshine and butterflies. I really want to just highlight that one more time, you guys. Vaginal birth doesn't mean your postpartum journey is going to be the easiest. Mine wasn't. My VBAC after two Cesarean birth was not the easiest. It just wasn't. So again, get those resources beforehand. Right?Johanna: Yeah. And I will say, I don't know what I would have done if I wasn't with midwifery care and having them on call for the six-week postpartum because I swear, I called them every second day about something that was going on.Meagan: Well, and that's more unique to home birth too because even with the hospital birth midwives, it's not the same. They usually say, "Oh, I'll see you in six weeks," and you can call. You can call any OB or midwife. You can call any provider, but there's a different level of care and follow-up in that postpartum stage and it's very impactful. It's very, very impactful.Johanna: Oh for sure. Yeah.Meagan: Yeah. Oh my gosh. I love everything and I love all these tips. There are so many tips and nuggets along the way. Is there anything else that you would like to drop here for the listeners in regards to home birth or preparing or postpartum or any words of encouragement that you may have?Johanna: I mean, I think that, like I mentioned at the start, just arming yourself with as much knowledge as you can is going to be your best bet to get the outcome that you want and just feel empowered throughout your pregnancy and your birth. So just arming yourself with as much knowledge as you can get your hands on and yeah, getting a good provider, trusting yourself, believing in your body, and setting yourself up for postpartum too because that's an important thing when you're so focused on getting your VBAC is letting the postpartum stuff fall to the wayside.Meagan: Yeah.Meagan: Taking care of yourself afterwards too is important.Meagan: Yes. Taking care of yourself. We don't. We don't take care of ourselves enough, you guys. Really pamper yourself. If that means you have your postpartum doula. If that means you hire a house cleaner to come in every other week. If that means you hire or have family come in to help, just whatever. Light house cleaning or holding baby or playing with toddler. Johanna, she's going to have two, you guys. She's almost on her third, and it's another baby girl.Johanna: Oh, yes. Yes. That's three for three.Meagan: So three baby girls. I mean, you've got your hands full in your postpartum experience.Right. So really do it. I don't want to stereotype women, but sometimes we get into this space of,  we can do it and we don't need to spend money on ourselves and things like that, but this stage of life is so important to invest in yourself. Really, truly invest in yourself because you deserve it. And your sleep and your experience and your mental health, it all matters so much. So yes, you might hire a cleaner and you might be spending that money, but guess what? That's okay. Do it. Johanna: And when you're taken care of, then you're a better mom to your kids.Meagan: Yes, yes. My husband always says, "When mom is happy, everyone else is happy." But really, really, you deserve it. Women of Strength, you deserve to be pampered and loved and supported. So Johanna, thank you so much again for such a powerful episode. I'm so grateful for you. And please keep us posted on this baby number three.By the time this episode comes out, you will have had this little baby girl.Johanna: Yes. I'm due January 4th, so I will definitely be sending you a message when she makes her entrance.Meagan: Please do. Please do. Okay well, thank you so much.Johanna: Thank you.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In this special episode, Kristin, host of Ask the Doulas podcast and founder of Gold Coast Doulas,  gives tips on building your supportive birth team. Krisin and Meagan talk specifics on HOW to switch providers if you're feeling the push to do so.Once we have our dream team, we're good and don't have to do any more work, right? Nope! We keep educating and preparing ourselves. That's the way to truly get the most out of that dream team. Kristin's book ‘Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby' is a one-stop shop where you can get all of the education you need for pregnancy, birth, and postpartum. Her advice is so valuable for VBAC moms and birth workers, too!Supported: Your Guide to Birth and BabyAsk the Doulas PodcastNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello. Hello. We have a special episode for you today. We have my friend, Kristin, who is actually the owner of Ask the Doulas Podcast on with us today. She is going to be talking about establishing our birth team and the importance of it. We're going to talk a little bit more about what to expect when we might not find a provider that's supportive and how to navigate it. She's going to talk more about her book and so many things. You guys, I'm really excited. Kristin is a woman who has always had a passion for supporting other women both personally and professionally. In college, Kristin served on the executive committee of her sorority and organized events on campus related to breast cancer and other women's issues. After the birth of her daughter in 2011, a new passion awoke within her. Kristin began reading and studying birth from all perspectives, philosophies, and medical approaches. She joined organizations like The Healthy Kent Breastfeeding Collation and used her event coordinating skills to build and promote the organization and create community awareness. You guys, she has done so many incredible things. Kristin's research has led her to learn more about doulas, and in 2012, she hired doulas herself for the support of her second birth. The level of compassionate care and comfort that she received from her doulas ignited a spark within her and led her down the path of becoming a doula herself. And man, can I connect to this because this is exactly what happened to me. When you guys have a doula who inspires you and touches you and motivates you the way it sounds like Kristin did and I did, even though my doula wasn't a hired doula, she was just a nurse that was a doula for the time being, it does something to you. She earned the certification and became teaching sacred pregnancy classes in 2013. But as you'll see, Kristin is a firm believer in achieving the highest level of education available when providing a service. Shortly after, she earned the following credentials-- you guys, are you ready for this? She's amazing. Oh my gosh. Certified Sacred Doula in 2014. She is a Certified Elite Labor through ProDoula. She is the Elite Postpartum and Infant Care Doula through ProDoula. She's trained in Spinning Babies, Newborn Specialist, Mother Ship, Certified Health Service Provider, certified in VBAC. She is certified in transformational birth and a birth coach for the Birth Coach Method. She is a certified pregnancy and infant loss advocate and certified gift registry expert through Be Her Village, who we will talk about. We both love them so much.She is also an author of a book which we will be sharing more about. It's called Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby. So without further ado, we are actually going to be skipping a review today and an educational topic because this is such a great episode to be educated and learn more about what Kristin is offering in her community. Okay, my love. Hello. Kristin: Hello.Meagan: We're officially getting going talking about this amazing topic. Tell me what you think about this. I think sometimes people want to assemble this dream team, but they let finances or even partners or other opinions get in the way.Kristin: Yes. Partner comfort level, especially with VBACs is key, or with clients of mine who want their dream is to have a home birth and their partner isn't supportive, so then they say, "Oh, it'll be with the next baby if everything goes well in the hospital." But then if they're a complication, they might risk out of the option of home. I think as consumers, we don't fully appreciate the ability to choose all of our birth and baby team. We can change providers. I switched providers with my first pregnancy early on because I didn't feel like that particular OB was on board with my plans to have an unmedicated hospital birth. I ended up switching to Certified Nurse Midwives and completely changed practices, completely changed hospitals in fact. It's a lot. Meagan: Yeah.Kristin: But it was worth it. And I had the time where it was easier to switch, but I've had clients switch very late in pregnancy. It was harder to find the right office to accept them, but with VBACs, it is crucial to have not just a VBAC-tolerant provider, but someone who is fully on board with your unique desires because we are all individuals.Meagan: Yes. I love that you said your unique desires. Everybody is different. I think it's really important to tell these providers what your desires are. We have a list of questions that we give people in our course and, of course, on the podcast. You can go down that list and check and be like, "Okay, this provider seems pretty supportive," but you guys have to tailor your questions and your provider. You have to tailor it to what your individual unique circumstances and desires are because everyone's is different. I would love to know. You said, I was realizing that this wasn't the right place. What kind of things were you hearing or being told or feeling when you were realizing that maybe your first provider wasn't going to be as supportive and in line with your unique decisions?Kristin: Just when I was talking about my wishes, I could tell that that particular provider liked structure and patience to get that epidural, and so once I started talking about movement, delivering in different positions and some of the things I had researched-- I hadn't yet taken a childbirth class because it was early in pregnancy, but I had done a fair bit of research before knowing what a doula was. I didn't hire doulas until my second. But I could just tell in that gut feeling which I rely on. Again, we're all unique. And yes, I do research, but I make decisions on am I comfortable spending my entire pregnancy with someone who can tolerate me and will say, "Okay"? But I could tell it didn't light her up. So once I found a practice where my nurse-midwife spent time with me, I had longer appointments, I could ask questions, and she was 100% on board with me, and then I was able to meet the other midwives and the OBs who oversaw them throughout the remainder of my pregnancy. I felt very cared for. And again, we are consumers. Whether your insurance pays for everything or you're paying for part of it, you don't get a do-over of your birth, and so it is so important, especially with that first birth to get the care team that aligns with you. That could be everything from a Webster-certified chiropractor, a physical therapist, a mental health therapist to deal with any anxieties that may come up with having a VBAC and getting a lot of fear-filled advice from friends and family members. I find that again, my clients are all unique individuals, and my students in Becoming a Mother Course, and now the readers in my book, have different goals, so I want them to choose the best plan for them. I love that you have worksheets and templates, but knowing that every situation is different whether it's a home birth, a trial of labor, or a hospital birth, that setting is different and the type of provider whether it's a nurse-midwife or an OB practice, how likely is the OB that is very VBAC-supportive going to be attending your birth? Are there 12 providers or are there only 4? And so there's just so many things to factor in when deciding what is important to you.Meagan: Yeah. That point that you just brought up, are there 12 providers? Are there only 4? Does your provider guarantee that they'll be there? These are things that I think a lot of people may not be aware of that because they found their provider. They're feeling good about their provider. They're jiving. They're having the feels, but then they may not be the ones to be there, so there are 11 other options. It feels overwhelming to be like, "Wait, wait. Do I interview all 11?" Yeah, guys. Yeah. You set up visits. It's okay. Go and see if you can meet with those. Make sure that that full team is aligned. It is a lot. That's a lot to take on, but it's okay to rotate and say, "Hey, I saw Dr. Jack last time. I'd like to see Dr. Joe this time," or whatever it may be. Really, really dive in, find out more about your provider's team if they have a team, and make sure that they align with your unique decisions and desires.Kristin: Absolutely. And that goes for doulas as well.Meagan: Oh, yeah.Kristin: So for VBAC clients, I, over the last couple of years, I do all of the matchmaking, I like to call it, between client and the birth doulas and postpartum doulas on my team, in fact. I like to find out what they're looking for. If they are attempting a VBAC, then many times, they're telling me they want a VBAC-certified doula. I have doulas that have gone through your program and are certified through you and other different VBAC trainings. They're not just wanting VBAC experience like in my early days of having Gold Coast Doulas. Now, they're wanting that certification because they know that information is being updated as things change. And there's more evidence for VBACs. They also want more than just, "Oh, I've attended four VBACs." They want the education behind it. So I think that is crucial. I'm not going to match, unless there's no one else available on my team, a client with someone who is not certified as a VBAC doula.Meagan: Yeah, I do the same thing with my group here where they're like, "This is really important to me. I want this specific type of doula." Some of my doulas have taken The VBAC Link course. And so I'm like, "Yep, this would be who I would suggest." But I also want to point out that even if you assemble your dream team doula, and they've got all the education and information on VBAC, and they're up to date, I want to just point out that it doesn't mean that you shouldn't inform yourself that you shouldn't get the information because sometimes I feel like it's easy to want to just hire your provider or your doula or your person and let them who know VBAC kind of help and guide you. But it is really important. You're doing yourself a disservice if you personally do not learn more about VBAC and your options as well and rely only on your provider or your doula.Kristin: 100%. The doula, I mean, unless you're paying her for it, will not be attending every one of your prenatal visits during pregnancy. The education that you have to make informed questions and decisions surrounding your birth plan or birth preference sheet, so those conversations are critical. The more information you have as a patient, the better. And as we all know, unless you're having a home birth, your visits are short even with a nurse-midwife. And so it's important to have those questions and to have time to really express concerns. Or if you're finding that that practice or that provider is not in line with your plans, then you can look at other options. And the hospital-- are VBACs even allowed at the hospital that you plan to deliver at? Are they going to induce? What are the Cesarean rates? And looking at all of the different options, and if you need to consider NICUs, that's always a factor in hospital selection as well.Meagan: Yeah, I'm going to kind of go back to where we were in the beginning where you realized based after your feelings and other things that this provider was not the right provider for you, you then changed to CNMs and had a much better experience. Can you discuss your process of that change? How did you change? Did you find the CNMs, have them request your information from the OB? Did you do a formal breakup with your OB? What suggestions would you give to someone who is wanting to do that? I know that sometimes, you were talking about it, in the end, it's a little harder to find, so that's why we stress so importantly to find your provider from the beginning. But we know that sometimes things change. So can you kind of talk about that process in then assembling that dream and getting the steps to get to that dream team?Kristin: Yes. So for me, I had asked friends about which providers they had worked with. So the original OB, a friend of mine, it was her doctor, and she had a great experience. I just wasn't feeling it. She had a student. We have teaching hospitals in my area, so there was a student in the room. I wasn't feeling like she was 100% on board. I could tell that she was very medically driven. I wanted essentially a home birth in a hospital. So I talked to more friends and did research online, and a friend of mine had used this particular practice. I ended up going with the midwife that delivered her three children, and it worked out beautifully because it was early in pregnancy. That practice had openings. It took me a while because I was changing hospitals and practices completely. My insurance, luckily, covered all of the options. But that's another thing to look into. Does your insurance cover the hospital where the provider you want to switch to delivers that if it is a hospital birth? Of course, you can VBAC at home in certain states. So just looking at all of the factors that would come into play. So for me, it was dealing with the paperwork of switching out of that practice, getting admitted, and going to that initial get-to-know-you visit with a nurse and doing my labs before I got to meet with the midwife that I had wanted to work with. And so it took a bit. I mean, no one likes to deal with the paperwork and the phone calls it takes, but your health is so important and especially again, for VBACs.Meagan: Yeah. So you essentially did all the paperwork and the transfer yourself.Kristin: Yes.Meagan: Okay.Kristin: I made all the phone calls, dealt with insurance and made sure that the initial visit was paid for along with the nurse visit, and then that insurance was comfortable with me.Meagan: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, I did, when I switched, because I switched it 24 weeks, my midwife just faxed a request to my OB office. It took them a while to send it. We had to ask five times which I think probably would have been faster if I, like you, made the phone calls and did all the things, but I was like in this weird, vulnerable spot of like, I don't want to go back there.Kristin: Right. You don't want to deal with it.Meagan: Yeah, I don't want to deal with it.Kristin: Even just talking to the front desk.Meagan: Yeah, yeah. So we waited for it and they eventually got it. But I think that that's important to note. You guys can make the calls too. You can call and say, "Hey, I'd like to request my records to be printed out or to be sent to this place." Kristin: Yes, and that's what I did. Because otherwise it's six weeks oftentimes or you have to keep calling. They get lost. so I just handled it. But it can be challenging. And as doulas and certainly VBAC doulas, we know the providers who would be not only tolerant but supportive of VBAC. So we get those questions frequently from potential clients and clients of, am I at the right place? And of course, we support whoever our clients choose to have care from. But there's also, if asked, I will tell them about the practice and my own experience as a doula or the agency's experience. And again, in those large practices, there might be four who are so VBAC-supportive. They love it, but then there might be some physicians who are not as comfortable. They feel that a surgical birth might be the better route to go, ad so there's that. So what I like to do as a VBAC doula is to have my clients talk to their provider. Again, go over a birth plan or birth preference sheet and have them sign off on it. That way, if they don't attend the birth, then the other physicians know that this was approved. It's not just a birth plan that is thrown out there, but it has been discussed. It doesn't work all the time, but it has been helpful for my clients no matter if they're a VBAC client or this is their first baby, and again, they have certain goals that they want to achieve like potentially avoiding an induction unless medically necessary.Meagan: Oh my gosh. So I'm just going to re-touch on that, you guys, because that was really, really, really good advice and something I've actually never done or even thought about or suggested to my own doula practice clients. Get your birth preference sheet or birth plans everyone calls a difference. I call it a birth preference sheet, which is a list of all your preferences that you desire. Go over that with your provider, and have them physically sign it. Physically sign it and date it showing that your provider went over it. And like she said, every provider may not be willing to do that, but I will say, if a provider is willing to do that, that says something to me.Kristin: It does. Yes.Meagan: Yeah. Super powerful. Oh, my gosh. Okay, nugget. Grab it, put it in your pocket, everybody. Sign your birth preference sheet so you can have it and keep that in your bag, so if you do have that random on-call doctor who may not even know you or not be so supportive, be like, "This has already been discussed. We were aware of this. My doctor has signed off." Also, you could maybe ask if your provider could make a copy of that and put it in your chart.Kristin: Right. Because yes, it's not just the one that they have on file, but it's also for the ones that you have, that copy that you're bringing and showing the nurse so the nurse and everyone is on the same page. Meagan: Love that. Kristin: And again, with teaching hospitals, you might have residents in and out. There can be some difficult conversations with VBAC and residents who have never seen a VBAC. We're not fully trained yet to support VBAC, and so they might be making suggestions while the provider is not in that check-in. So every state, again, every area is different. I just happen to be in an area with multiple teaching hospitals.Meagan: Same here. We have seen it where I think, I don't want to say this badly. The VBAC world is a world that can have a lot of negativities in it, negative things and big words like uterine rupture. We've got residents who may be coming in and may be training under a provider who has seen a uterine rupture or has maybe molded an opinion on VBAC and is projecting their opinion to that student. Whether or not they're consciously doing it or not, they're saying their opinion, and those opinions might morph that resident's opinion into negative for VBAC. You never know. And so they might be doing things or be more hesitant in areas that they don't need to be, but they are.Kristin: Yeah, it's such a good point. And as you mentioned, I mean, we don't know the traumas that our nurses and medical team, even home birth midwives, have experienced, and they carry that with them. And how can they not? Even as doulas, we witness, but we don't have the liability and the medical training to make it, but we are witnesses of trauma and have our own healing to do to be able to better move on and support the next client. So certainly keeping that in mind that they may have seen something that alters the way they practice.Meagan: Yeah.Kristin: It's not just fear of lawsuits.Meagan: It's really not. It's not. There's a provider here in Utah who is literally so scared of vaginal birth herself. She scheduled all of her Cesareans, even the very first one from the get. She never had trial of labor or TOL. She just doesn't. So can you imagine what her Cesarean rate may be? And she kind of reminds me of the provider you're talking about. She really likes it just so controlled. Come in, start Pitocin, and get the epidural. She likes those things, which we know can sometimes lead to those Cesareans. And so really also discussing with your provider, how do you feel about birth? Have you had babies? And then we have another OB who's like, "I work in the hospital, and I love the hospital, and I trust the hospital system, but I actually gave birth at home with all three of my babies," and so really getting to know your provider, I think, is so good. Okay, let's keep going on this topic of assembling your dream team of experts when planning for birth and baby. What other things would you suggest to our Women of Strength?Kristin: Yes. So as we know, birth is as physical as it is mental, and just the opposite, as mental as it is physical. So preparing with a childbirth class, a comprehensive class, even if you took one before, use the lens of your goal of attempting a VBAC, a trial of labor. And so for us, we happen to teach HypnoBirth at Gold Coast Doulas and that mind/body connection that HypnoBirthing or a gentle birth offers where it's more of using the visualization the way an athlete would in preparing for a marathon or a triathlon, you are using things to reduce fear. You're understanding all of your options. It's very partner involved. I think taking a comprehensive childbirth class, whichever meets your individual goals, is great. That childbirth instructor is a great person to add to your birth and baby team. And then moving your body. So taking a fitness class that is appropriate for pregnancy. So prenatal yoga, there are Barre classes for pregnancy. There are prenatal belly dancing classes, whatever it is. Meagan: Aqua aerobics.Kristin: Yeah, water aerobics are amazing. And so thinking about baby's position and helping labor to go on its own or be quicker. There's acupuncture, acupressure, the Webster-certified chiro for positioning or body balancing experts, so many different options. But I am a big fan of educating yourself and preparing because as you mentioned earlier, Meagan, a doula is not your end all, be all. Just because we have the information and the training, we can't think for you. We don't want to think for you. The more informed you are, the more likely you're going to feel like birth didn't happen to you this time around and you were a direct participant, even if you end up having a surgical birth again.Meagan: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Oh my gosh. So talking about courses, you guys, we have our VBAC course. This VBAC course goes into VBAC, the stats about VBAC, the history of VBAC, the history of Cesarean, the stats of Cesarean, the questions, finding the provider, a little bit more of the mental prep, and physical prep. But when it comes to a childirth education course like with the course that she has, they're on different levels. I actually suggest them both.Kristin: Yes, me too. Absolutely.Meagan: But it's so important to know the information that is in your course. I know you go even past preparing for birth and then birth and then postpartum. You go into all of it. We're going to talk more about it. But you guys, we as doulas, love getting information and we love sharing information. But like she said, we don't want to be the only one that knows the information in a team. When our clients come in, at least here in my group, when our clients come in and they are fully educated and we're like, yes. And then we can come in with our education and our experience and knowledge, you guys, it is a powerhouse team. It is a powerhouse team. We have clients who, when they take child birth education classes like yours, they are able to advocate more for themselves. They feel stronger to stand up and say, "Hey, thank you so much, but no thanks" or "Maybe later," when our clients who haven't had that childbirth education or just any information other than maybe what we're providing, which is great, but not enough in the full length of pregnancy, it's a little harder. We have to try to encourage those clients a little bit more because it's harder for them because they don't know everything. We're there to help guide them and help advocate for them and educate them, but it is very different.Kristin: It is. It's so different. And I feel like, again, partners, especially male partners, want to fix things. They don't want their love to feel any pain, and so they may have the fear of a VBAC. So taking a VBAC class course, having a VBAC doula, giving information is just as helpful, if not more for the partner and their comfort level and to have them fully get on board because they may be resisting and just going along for the ride, but if you can get them to be an active participant in education, then they're going to be able to help you. And sometimes in labor, we get to a point in transition where we can't fully speak for ourselves. But if our partner understands, is educated and on board, and if there's time to talk through the risks and benefits and alternatives with your doula, then yes. But sometimes decisions have to be made quickly, and so for that partner to be informed and educated is crucial.Meagan: So crucial. It's so powerful. My husband-- he was not so on board. He was like, "Whatever. I don't care. You can go to the courses. You can do these things."Kristin: And that's very typical.Meagan: It's very typical. And I did. I did do those things. When I said, "Hey, I'm going to birth out-of-hospital," and he was like, "No," I was like, "Well, sorry. I've done the education. I know this is really where my heart is pulling." We touched on this in the beginning how partners really can influence decision making. And in no way, shape or form am I trying to say partners are terrible or don't listen to your partner or anything like that. That's not the goal of what we're saying is have an educated partner. Know that you can assemble a birth team, like a provider, a chiropractor, a massage therapist, a doula, a PT, or whatever it may be, but don't forget about your partner. Your partner is a huge part of your team, and if they're not educated and they're not able to help guide you through, or if they're not being supportive, find ways to help them be supportive by taking a course with them and helping them realize, oh, VBAC actually isn't that scary. Oh, that chance isn't really 50+%. Oh, okay. Hospital birth, out-of-hospital birth. Yeah. They're both reasonable, and really understanding that.Kristin: Absolutely. And sometimes I find that my students and clients may have not had success with breastfeeding the first time and potentially didn't take a class. So if their goal is to breastfeed or pump exclusively, then taking a breastfeeding class and having that IBCLC as a resource for their dream team in case it's needed because many times, you have the lactation consultant who's teaching the class, at least in my practice, and then they're also available for say, a home visit or a hospital visit, depending on where the class is taking place. And so I think that that's something. Even if it isn't your first baby and maybe you breastfed for a little bit or had supply issues or challenges after a surgical birth, that it is important to consider any education during pregnancy because it's much harder to get that education after you have your baby.Meagan: It really is. I love that you're touching on that, really getting into all the things and having your partner go with you. I remember I was like, I had a C-section, and I was swollen and tired, and I couldn't move very well. I was sore and all the things that sometimes come with C-sections. I'm trying to nurse, and I'm engorged.  I don't feel my letdown, and I'm just so engorged. I don't know. All I know is I have really big, swollen boobs. It's all I could tell. I couldn't latch. My husband was like, "That's it. We're going to the store. We're getting formula." Formula is fine. Not anything against formula.Kristin: He's trying to fix the problem and make you feel better.Meagan: Yep, yep, yep. Trying to fix that problem. But I was like, "No, I really want to breastfeed." At that point, I wasn't able to communicate. Like, I didn't get the birth I wanted. I already felt like a failure because I was actually told that your body failed. That's what I was told. So I was already dealing with this mindset that I failed. I had a C-section. I didn't want a C-section. And now the only thing I could try to do because I couldn't take that C-section back is breastfeed my baby. I wanted to breastfeed my baby. And again, we didn't take those childbirth education classes. He for sure didn't download any apps. I at least had an app trying to help me at that point, but he didn't understand. He didn't understand.And I'm like, no.I'm crying, and I'm like, "Please, just help me. I don't know what I need to help me." And he's like, "No, we're going to the store. Our baby's mad. You're crying." He was trying to fix that problem. But if we had already done that information education before and found that IBCLC before and him understanding how important that was to me, he could have been like, "I'm going to call her IBCLC. I'll get her over here right away."Kristin: Exactly. The last thing you want to do is go into the hospital to see a lactation consultant there if you can even get in.Meagan: Exactly. Yeah. So it just could have been so much smoother. Sometimes I feel like we were against each other at that point because he didn't have any education. With our first, I really didn't have much education. But with our third, it was like he really didn't have a lot of education. and I was over-the-top educated, so I was saying these things, and he was thinking I was demeaning him or saying he was stupid because it was just this weird thing. So if we can just come together with our partners and get all the education and get it all before really, find out a postpartum plan. Find out a breastfeeding plan. Right? Find out what you want. You guys, it just makes the pregnancy journey and the postpartum journey, so much better. It truly makes you feel like you're on that team because you are.Kristin: Yes. Absolutely. And certainly, I mean, you mentioned apps. Not everyone has the means or even lives in an area where they can take a comprehensive five, six, ten-week childbirth class. There are, obviously, online classes. There are some Zoom virtual ones where students are all over the place. But there are watching birth videos and YouTube and in my book, Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby, we talk about apps, so count the kicks. Especially for VBACs, doing the self-monitoring if there's fear of fetal movement and any sort of distress during the end of the pregnancy, then really understanding your own body and doing monitoring. It's not just when you're in your provider's office being monitored. You can make a difference yourself. So having some different apps and some education on your own, listening to podcasts like yours to get this information and reading books. So there's more than if you can't afford a childbirth class like HypnoBirthing, there are still ways that you can get educated and your partner can get educated. So yeah, take a look at all of your options and your budget.Meagan: Yeah, and we talk about this all the time because I love them, but Be Her Village is a really great resource where you can go fill out a registry and, hopefully, get some help for these things. Childbirth education classes, doulas, IBCLCS. But I want to dive a little bit more into your book, actually, while we're talking about different resources. We talked about the childbirth education, but can we talk about more about Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby and how this came into fruition and what all is included in this amazing book.Kristin: Okay, Meagan. So essentially the book came out of our online course. Becoming a Mother launched in the early pandemic when everything was shut down and our classes all had to go virtual. I was fortunate to be in a state where doulas who were certified were able to work thanks to our governor. So we were working, but there was still a lot of isolation even with our clients' prenatal visits. They wanted a connection, so we launched this course. We had talked about and did three live launches, got VBAC from our students, pulled people in from all the moms' groups before creating the first draft of the course. And then the course just led to the book. So the content in Becoming a Mother is what is in the book in a different format. So in Becoming a Mother, we have expert videos, so VBAC specialists and Webster-certified chiropractors talking about what that is. Pelvic floor physical therapists, car seat safety technicians, cord blood banking donation centers.Meagan: Awesome.Kristin: We have the experts speaking for themselves-- a pediatrician. And so in the book, anything that is medical and out of the scope of a doula, we had expert contributors, so I have a pediatrician friend of mine who contributed a newborn procedure section of the chapter and a prenatal yoga studio instructor, she's also a certified body balancer. She contributed to some of the fitness options in the book, and a mental health therapist who is PMA focused and certified contributed to the mental health chapter. We have an IBCLC that contributed to the feeding chapter, and so a lot of involvement, and then sharing client stories throughout the book and then our own wisdom. We have doula tips and wisdom at the end of every chapter. Meagan: Wow.Kristin: And so as clients were asking me for books over the years, I couldn't find anything that was positive. I felt like there were a lot of, this is your cry-it-out method for sleep because we have a whole chapter on sleep and it's very attachment-focused. It's like, one way for feeding, and we wanted our clients, with their unique choices for themselves, to have a book that supports people who want to plan surgical birth like that OB and that's their comfort level and a book for the same person who wants a home birth. You don't have to buy five different books. It's not always Ina May which is a great book but not for everyone. All of her different-- she's got Spiritual Midwifery and so many different books. It is great for grandparents to read and partners but is targeted to the mother or the mother-to-be and is great in preconception in that early planning. But also, we wanted to make it similar to the course and just as valuable for seasoned bombs as it is for new moms. And again, it's affirming. We tried not to have any fear-filled information in a simple, easy-to-read guide that you can pull out for reference and a lot of different, again, apps and podcasts and books to read and resources and evidence-based information about Black maternal health and where we're at in the country now and how the pandemic impacted birth especially, but also that postpartum time.Meagan: Wow. That book sounds amazing. So amazing. And you guys, you can get it in every form, even Audible. I'm a big listener. I like to listen to books. Kristin and Alyssa actually recorded it. She was telling me they had 10+-hour days recording this this book. You can get it, and we will make sure to have the links for that in the show notes. I found it at goldcoastdoulas.com/supportedyourguidetobirthandbaby.Kristin: It's there. You can find it off that website or it has its own page. It's supportedbook.com. Meagan: Supportedbook.com, okay. We'll make sure that's all in the show notes, so you guys can grab that. Okay, so you know a lot. Obviously, you wrote a whole book and a whole course and all this stuff. Is there anything else that you would like to share in regards to just our final assembling of that powerhouse birth team?Kristin: So don't forget, I know we're talking a lot about pregnancy and birth prep, but don't forget your recovery phase. And you had talked about your own personal struggles with breastfeeding engorgement, recovery after a surgical birth. If you have, well, you do have other children at home with VBACs, and so looking at childcare, postpartum doula support, or what kind of family support you're going to have after, it's more than just meal plans and prepping the nursery. We strongly believe that as part of your dream team, the postnatal team is crucial as well. So whether it's a lactation consultant, a pelvic floor physical therapist, if you want to get back to running marathons again or are leaking. I mean, we can all use pelvic floor physical therapy. It's not just the athletes who they support. Some people, again, with building a home or other life occurrences like a wedding or preparing for college, you look at your budget. You look at your main goals. For a wedding, it might be food. For postpartum, it might be sleep. So hiring a sleep consultant when baby's old enough or an overnight postpartum doula or a newborn care specialist. What are your priorities? And take the budget. What might be paid for by insurance or, a health savings flex spending plan that you need to run down? What might be gifted? Like you mentioned, Be Her Village. There are different ways you can budget. And in the book, we talk about all of that and looking at employer plans, how to navigate that, what questions to ask your HR department about other members, like a chiropractor, could that be covered? A therapist? Oftentimes, we don't know our own benefits and certainly, I don't know my husband's benefits fully, so to be able to investigate that early in pregnancy and figure out what might be fully or partially paid for.Meagan: Wow. That is incredible itself. I feel like that's a whole other conversation of, how to navigate how to do that. So definitely go get the book, you guys, because it sounds like there are just so many things in there that are honestly crucial to know. really, really important things to know. You are incredible. Kristin: So are you.Meagan: I just enjoy chatting with you so much. Anything else? Yeah, anything else you'd like to add?Kristin: And obviously, take taking trainings and courses. If I know you have doulas who listen. It's not just parents.Meagan: Yes.Kristin: As doulas go through The VBAC Link. Get certified as a VBAC doula. Keep up with information that is ever-changing. We all want to be the best doula for each of our clients, but I am a firm believer in continuing our own education and that more and more of our clients are choosing to attempt VBACs, and so the more information you can get as a professional, the better you're able to support. It's just not the number of VBACs you've attended anymore. It's clients wanting that knowledge so you can be busier and also a more effective doula by getting that training and then going through the certification process that you offer.Meagan: Yeah, have a directory actually with birth doulas where people can go and find it because when Julie and I created this company way back in the day, we knew that we were just two people here in Utah. We couldn't change the VBAC world. We could give as much information as we could. We could share the podcast. We could do those types of things. But when it comes to birth workers, we wanted to reach birth workers everywhere. It's so great that we have and we're still having more people come on because they're helping people so much. I mean, we know you have doulas that do it all the time. These doulas do help and there are actual stats on doulas that do it. But I agree. If you're a birth worker, stay up to date. Be in the know. Know what's going on because you will likely need to help guide your client through it. Kristin: Then you can charge more. So take that investment in a training like The VBAC Link, and then you're able to charge more because you're more experienced. You have more certifications. So don't look at like, oh, I don't have any money for continuing education. Look at how that's going to change your career.Meagan: Yeah, and I think sometimes too you can charge a little bit more, take less clients, and be more personal with those clients and dive into it. Especially because we do know that VBAC does take some extra stuff that goes on with VBAC. There's some extra work to be worked through. There are some extra things and so yeah, I love that.Kristin: Well, thank you so much for having me on Meagan, I loved our chat.Meagan: Thank you. You as well. As always, I loved our other chat as well. We have to keep going. I think I'm going to order your book today and get going on that. Even though I'm not a mom preparing, I think this would be such a great book to suggest to all of my clients. So thank you for sharing. Thank you.Kristin: Yeah. My secondary audience is certainly anyone who works with families in the birth and baby space, but it is targeted again, just similar to my podcast. It's like I have the listener of the pregnant individual and family, but also birth workers. The book is similar. Thank you for ordering.I appreciate it. Meagan: Yes. And can you also tell everybody where to find you not just in your book, but Instagram, podcast, and all of the social medias?Kristin: So my podcast is Ask the Doulas. You can find us on all the podcast players and you were a guest recently, so very fun. And certainly, we're at Gold Coast Doulas on everything from Pinterest to YouTube to Facebook to Instagram. I don't have separate social sites for my book because I honestly don't have time for that.Meagan: That's okay. Yeah, it's a package. It comes with everything, so you don't need to have another book page. Well, awesome. Well, thank you again so much.Kristin: Thank you. Have a great day.Meagan: You too.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Liz, a mama of two from Long Island, New York, joins us today sharing her experience with preeclampsia, an unexpected C-section, and her successful VBAC with her second. Liz had a perfect health history and never had any surgeries before her C-section. It was so frustrating to feel so out of control. In between her birth and her second pregnancy, Liz's mom unexpectedly passed away. She shares how she has been processing the intense grief from her mother's passing and from the positive birth experience she wasn't able to have. Liz made lots of changes going into her VBAC birth including diet, switching providers, and choosing to birth at home!Liz's DoulaCoterie Diapers - Use code VBAC20 for 20% offHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan Hello, everybody. We have our friend, Liz, from New York with us today. She is a mom of two and almost two years old. Right? Your VBAC baby?Liz: Yes.Meagan Almost two years since your VBAC baby.And then an almost six-year-old. And yeah, like I said, she lives in New York, and she's going to be sharing her stories with you guys today. With her first birth, she actually had preeclampsia, so she's gonna talk more about that. And then with her second birth, she didn't have preeclampsia. I think this is an important thing to talk about because we know that having preeclampsia again is a possibility, and it might be slightly increased if you've had it, but it doesn't mean you will. So I'm hoping that we can talk a little bit more if you did do anything to try to avoid it. The second one, we'll talk more about that in a little bit. But knowing that it's still okay. If you have preeclampsia, you can still VBAC. Now, in her second one, she didn't have preeclampsia, but you can still VBAC if you have preeclampsia. So we're going to talk about that a little bit after your first birth too, because I want to know more. All right. We do have a Review of the Week today, and this is by jess2123. It says "Best Podcast for VBAC". It says, "I listened to the podcast after my son's birth. I learned so much that I knew I wanted a VBAC for my second birth. When I became pregnant again, I would listen to this podcast during my walks. Thanks to the wealth of knowledge that I gained, I had my unmedicated VBAC in 2023." Congratulations, Jess, on your VBAC, and thank you so much for your review. I know this year we're tossing it up between reviews and educational pieces, but I just do want to remind you really quickly that if you haven't left us a review yet, we would love it. You can push "pause" right now and listen or leave a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can go over to Google. Google "The VBAC Link", and leave us a review there. These reviews really do help us and bring us so much joy. So without further ado, I want to turn the time over to you.Liz: Thank you so much. I guess every VBAC story starts with the Cesarean story, or at least there's one in there. My pregnancy journey did start with a Cesarean as far as the first birth. As Meagan mentioned, I am a mom of two. With my first son, I fortunately have been reproductively very healthy and otherwise healthy my entire life. I was able to track everything. I had regular cycles and really no issues there, so I feel really, really blessed in that regard. I was able to get pregnant pretty easily. I believe I got pregnant in about February 2018 for the first time. I found out mid-March after I tested in my bathroom and just ran out with the test to my husband, nothing super special. I think I was just shocked. I remember I had gone to a St. Patrick's Day parade and felt so tired that I said to my friend, "I'm going to go home and nap in between that and another event." They were all like, "Why are you napping?" I was like, "I don't know, I'm just really tired." I took the pregnancy test to rule out pregnancy. It was immediately positive which was amazing. My EDD, my estimated due date, was supposed to be Thanksgiving that year, so it was November 22nd which was Thanksgiving 2018. That just made me laugh because I was like, wow, what a far cry from Thanksgiving Eve spent even a decade previous. But yeah, so my pregnancy started out pretty status quo, I would say. I definitely experienced that nausea. My morning sickness was definitely an all-day thing, so it was a little tough. I think it threw me for a loop because I didn't know what to expect. I had always wanted to eat healthier, especially being pregnant, but it was like my body would not allow me to eat what I wanted or what my brain wanted me to eat. It was a lot of carbs to start out. I know that's pretty common. I remember when I went for my first appointment, I had called an OB's office. I'm trying to think. I think I had gone for one well-woman visit before, but I had two friends, actually three friends who had delivered with this OB and had good experiences, so I figured I would give it a try. The funny thing is, pretty much from the jump, I could tell that we weren't very aligned. I didn't really see eye-to-eye with him, but he had this nurse practitioner who was wonderful, and I feel like she drew people in because she was just very nurturing and calming, and she just had that great energy. I knew, obviously, she wasn't going to be at my birth, but I still stayed there.Meagan Oh yeah. So can we talk about that a little bit? So you had one provider that you're like, "I don't know, our energy doesn't match." And then one that you're like, "Our energy totally matches." But then they wouldn't be birthing with you. So tell me a little bit more of what that provider was that wasn't matching your energy.Liz: Yeah. So I guess because I had always been so healthy, my experiences with medical professionals were very limited. I had just gone to doctors for routine checkups my entire life, and everything was always fine. I think because I wasn't very experienced in the medical world, I almost had this aversion to it. I just was like, they're there if there's an emergency, but it'll be fine. Everything will be fine. I'm trying to do this as naturally as possible. He seemed very old school. I don't know how to describe it, just very set in his ways. I remember, I'll circle back around, but towards the end of the pregnancy when I had finally gotten the gall to tell him that I really wanted to try and do this unmedicated because I was so nervous to say that, he was like, "Well, don't expect this baby to just fall out of you. You're a first-time mom."Meagan Wait, what?Liz: He literally said that to me. And I was like, "Okay, I didn't think that." Meagan: I wasn't saying that. Liz: Yeah, I wasn't saying that I didn't think I wouldn't have to work hard. That's not what I'm saying. So just comments like that. The bedside manner just didn't seem very nurturing. He was very by the book, quick appointments, and asking me his little checklists of items, and that was it, whereas I felt like his nurse practitioner was very warm, had great bedside manner, and really just cared about mothering the mother in that situation. It wasn't just about the baby and how I was going to give birth or how I preferred to give birth. It was the entire experience. I remember at one point, she even said, "Obviously, there is a need for testing certain things and for keeping an eye on everything, but I really just feel like if we left women more alone to go through their pregnancies, they might be better off because we're so hands-on in the United States, and it just causes sometimes more anxiety throughout a time that's supposed to be really beautiful."So she did mention that she reminded me of, I don't know, a woman who crouched down in the field and gave birth to her babies in the woods. That's who she reminded me of. I don't know if that's the truth for her. I never did ask anything about her birthing experiences, but that's who she reminded me of. Just super warm and nurturing. I think also I maybe just aligned more with a female provider. It could have been just that too.Meagan: Yeah, it could have been. But I mean, what you were saying, comments like that, if I'm being super straight, we've interviewed providers on here that have come across really great, and then the more I've interviewed them, I'm like, "Oh, I don't know if I like that. I don't know."That can just happen. I think that's where it comes with vetting your provider and going with who makes you feel warm and fuzzy. But at the same time you're in this place where you're like, well, we've got this medical. We'll see how it goes. I've got this to also like, I've got this warm, fuzzy, filling-my-cup over here. So it seems like it's an okay match, right?Liz: Yeah. And I also manipulated it to the point where I would only make appointments when she was available throughout my pregnancy where the office was like, "You have to see the OB. You have to. He is going be the one who's attending your birth." I'm just like, "But I don't want to. I don't want to do that."Meagan: Yeah.Liz: I just stuck with the practice, I think, because I was nervous. I was new to it and like you said, I was getting my warm and fuzzy cup filled by that nurse practitioner's presence. Things progressed. I finally outgrew that morning sickness. By the second trimester, it was week 12 or 13 and it let up, and I was feeling good. I was pretty energetic. I was doing yoga on a somewhat regular basis. Nutritionally, I do want to mention because I think this does play a role in how things may have gone with the preeclampsia. But nutritionally, I was actually coming off of a vegetarian diet. I had been a vegetarian for a few years. I had gotten really deep into yoga in the early 2010s, and I became a vegetarian when I was doing teacher training for that. So I was purely vegetarian for a few years, and then I started integrating poultry back into my diet. I ate very little because my husband also doesn't consume a lot of meat, so we just didn't eat a lot of meat. I feel like I'm already a picky eater even as an adult. I definitely was as a child, but even as an adult, I still have things that I just don't like, so I feel like my diet was pretty limited, and I perhaps was not getting the nutrients that I needed, especially when my body underwent this or got pregnant and was going through this stressful event.Meagan: Yeah. Growing a placenta and a baby. Yeah, it needed its nutrients.Liz: Yeah. So I feel like during my pregnancy, especially once I started to feel good again, I ate whatever I wanted. So that whole like, I'm just going to eat so healthy, I was just like, yeah, no. I'm eating for two. I totally knew that's not what you're supposed to do. Meagan: I did the same thing. Liz: Yeah. I was like, whatever. I'm feeling great. I'm going to eat it. It's there. I'm going to eat it. So I get to my 20-week anatomy scan. I'm not even sure if it was exactly at 20 weeks, and everything goes well. Fortunately, no complications with the baby. Oh, I had also gotten a NIPT to find out the sex of the baby, so I knew I was having a boy. The anatomy scan did validate that. But that week, I don't know if it was right before or right after my anatomy scan, I noticed that I was starting to swell just on my right side of my body. My right foot was swollen. My right ankle leg was a little swollen. I remember reaching out to my social media friends. I just put out a status like, "Hey, pregnant lady here. I don't really know what's going on. Is this normal? Is this something I should bring up to my provider? What do you guys think?" There were plenty of people who were like, "No, it's totally normal to be swollen at that point." I even said, "It's only on one side though. It's weird."Meagan: Yeah, yeah.Liz: So they were like, "Just elevate your feet. See what happens." It would always go down, but it was just odd that I happened to notice just the swelling on one side of the body. So definitely interesting. Yeah. So I keep going. I'm getting bouts of pretty much every pregnancy symptom, but it would always be very short-lived. I definitely had some reflux, short-lived. I got sciatic pain so bad one day that I couldn't get out of the car. I remember I was sitting in the passenger seat and I said to my husband, "I can't walk on my right leg right now because of my sciatic nerve." So I was doing all these exercises to try and get the baby off my nerve and all of that, and everything just waxed and waned. Nothing was long-lived by any means. So I get to 30 weeks. I think it was at my 30-week appointment, and I believe it was the medical assistant who come in and took my blood pressure and wait like they always do. I don't know if it was her or the nurse practitioner who said that I had my first high blood pressure reading. Like, "Oh, it's elevated a little bit." And I was like, "Oh, that's so strange. I've been a 120/80 girl this entire time, and my whole life, I've never had blood pressure issues." And they're like, "Okay, well it's something to keep an eye on. Let's see. We're going to let you lay on your side, and see if we can have it come down. We'll take it at the end of the appointment again." And it did. It would come down, but they definitely were like, "We're going to keep this in our back pocket, and we might have to have additional monitoring if this progresses." I didn't really know what high blood pressure and pregnancy could mean, so of course, I go to Dr. Google like a good pregnant lady does, right?Meagan: Yep. A lot of us, I'm guilty.Liz: Guilty. Yeah. I was like, okay, so it could be hypertension in pregnancy or it could turn into preeclampsia. I was reading all the things, how this could turn and what that all meant. So in the back of my head, I always thought like, okay. I'm aware of what could indicate preeclampsia, but that's not going to be me. I am a healthy person, right? I've always been healthy my entire life. There shouldn't be any issues while I'm pregnant. And that wasn't the case, unfortunately. But I did go in a few more times, and I did get elevated blood pressure readings. So I don't know what week I was, but I know it was the beginning of October. I saw this other nurse practitioner who was not warm and fuzzy. She was new to the practice and she saw me. She took my pressure, and you could see the alarm in her face, but she wasn't saying much. This stuck with me to this day. It's just so crazy. She handed me this paper. The hospital that I was delivering at is a small community hospital, but it's affiliated with this Catholic healthcare system where I live, so they have a few different hospitals that are also within that same system. She just gave me this paper that had a listing of all these numbers for these different departments at these hospitals, and she just said, "You need to call them and make an appointment." And I'm like, "I have literally no idea what this is about." She's like, "Your pressure is high. You need to go make an appointment with them," but that's all she said to me. Meagan: For what? Yeah. Liz: Yeah, what is happening right now? I remember even that day, she asked me about my face. She was just like, "Is your face swollen? Does your face normally look like that?" I was like, "I have a very round face. I have big cheeks. To me, my face doesn't look different." Yeah. So she handed me that paper, told me to call, and like the good patient I am, I was like, "Sure, I'll call." So I called. I found out it was maternal-fetal medicine, which for those of you out there that don't know what that is, that's a high-risk doctor, and I had no idea. So this is my first experience with that. I did call. I made an appointment, and my OB office had me do a 24-hour urine drop or urine drip, however you want to call that. Meagan: Urine catch? Urine catch, probably?Liz: Yeah, so for those of you who don't know what that is, they give you a jug from a lab, and you have to put your urine into that jug for an entire 24 hours. They test it, and they're checking to see if there's any protein that is spilling into your urine because that could indicate decreased kidney function. Meagan: Preeclampsia. Yeah.Liz: Yeah. That is a symptom of preeclampsia. So I did do that. I went and saw MFM, and in the office there, my pressures were labile. They even called them that-- labile. It had elevated a little bit, probably in the 130s over 90s, but then by the end of the appointment, it had come down. My labs for that urine catch did indicate that there was protein present, but it wasn't within a diagnosable threshold. It was below that lab threshold, so I basically wasn't diagnosable. But they were like, "Now we're going to watch you." Most people like to see their babies on ultrasounds. That's an exciting thing. I became so fed-up with having to go in. I was, at that point, a frequent flyer. I was going in weekly earlier than a pregnancy that wasn't having any sort of complications. I was getting not only an ultrasound, but an NST every time I went in, so I'd have to lay there for 45 minutes while they looked at the baby's heart tones and everything. Yeah, at that point, I was just really stressed out because I was like, is that what this is turning into? But I don't have preeclampsia. I think I also saw my OB within that timeframe and he mentioned, "If this progresses, we will be doing a 37-week induction." And I was like okay, so I'm going to keep that in mind. But again, this isn't going to progress to that because I'm healthy and we're going to make it past 37 weeks. I probably wouldn't get the type of delivery that I wanted. And that's probably something I should mention. If I was induced at 37 weeks, I was preparing to have an unmedicated birth, a vaginal birth, and I was even taking a HypnoBirthing class to try and labor as long as I could at home. My whole thing was that I didn't want to go to the hospital until I needed the hospital or until I felt I needed the hospital. So here I am thinking, okay. I want this unmedicated, low-intervention birth, but I'm having all these interventions right now because they need to monitor me. There's some sort of issue that might be brewing. Yeah. I already said I went to MFM and all of that. My symptoms, at that point, were mostly swelling. I was getting very swollen at this point. I had that pitting edema in my legs, so I could press my finger into my leg. Meagan: It stayed. Liz: It stayed, and then my feet were like little loaves of bread. My feet will never forget what they went through. My husband would just massage them every single night, trying to get the fluid to move out of my tissues. It was crazy. I had another experience with a different OB who was not my OB, but I was out at a family event at this restaurant, and this woman approached me, told me she was an OB, and asked me if I was okay because my legs and my feet did not look so great.Meagan: What?Liz: Yeah. I was just standing in the lobby minding my business, and she's like, "Are you okay?" as if I'm not being monitored, but do you think I'm just going through this free and unaware of what's happening? Yeah. So that was interesting. She said that she was an OB. Yeah. So I went for weekly NSTs, the ultrasounds, and everything looked great with the baby. He was never under any sort of distress. No concerns of intrauterine growth restriction, nothing like that, but my pressures just kept being labile. I actually borrowed a blood pressure cuff so I could monitor at home. There were some mornings where I'd lay down on the couch after I woke up, and my blood pressures were reaching into those like 140s over 90, 91 maybe. I just would cry. I was just hysterical. Like, why is this happening? I don't want to go to labor and delivery right now. I don't want to be monitored. I'm already being monitored so much. There were probably some weeks towards the end where it was more than once that I went into my OB's office for monitoring. So fortunately, we made it through that 37-week mark. We made it all the way to, essentially, the end. And we get to Thanksgiving Eve, right? So my due date is the next day. I'm at 39 and 6. This was one of those appointments where they said, "You have to see the OB." I know I just kicked and screamed, not really, but in my head like, "F"ine, I'll see him. So the medical assistant comes in, takes my pressure and my weight, doesn't say anything, and leaves the room. He comes in, takes my pressure in my weight, and he asks me to meet him in his office.Meagan: Really?Liz: Yes. So I get myself dressed out of the gown that they had given me, and I go meet him in this fancy office. And he's like, "Your pressure is very high today, very high. So you're going to be going to labor and delivery straight from here." He's like, "I have a few meetings that I have to attend to here, but I will meet you over there in a few hours." And I was like, obviously, on the verge of tears. I'm just like, "Can I please stop home and get my stuff? Like, I have bags, I have a dog."Meagan: If you can go to your meetings, I can go to my house.Liz: Right. And yeah, my OB's was maybe 12-13 minutes away from my house, and the hospital was about five minutes down the road. So I was just like, "Can I just go home and grab my stuff?" And he's like, "No, no, no. Go straight to the hospital." And he goes, "And you're probably going to have a Cesarean."Meagan: What?Liz: This is after I tell him my natural birth, or my unmedicated, definitely wanting a vaginal birth. I was like, what? Literally, that was when the tears of waterworks really started. I was just like, "there's no shot at me having a vaginal birth?" And he's just like, "Well, I'm going to be putting you on medication to prevent seizures, so you can either labor with that and have it cancel out my induction medication, or you can just be calm and go to a Cesarean." Like, go to the OR, essentially.Meagan: What were your pressures?Liz: 170/110 that day.Meagan: Okay. Okay.Liz: So, high. Meagan: Yeah. But he's like, "You can do this, but it's not going to work, or you could just calm down and do this."Liz: Yeah, yeah. It was like, those aren't options, so that's not really an option. Right? That's what you're telling me. Meagan: Yeah. Liz: Yeah. So I called my mom. I called my husband, frantic. I was just flipping out. I get out of the office, I'm crying in the parking lot telling everybody. They're telling me to go right to the hospital. So, of course, my husband rushes home from work. He was at work. It was a Wednesday, and he got my dog. He had to bring my dog to my mom's, grab our bags to the extent that they were packed, and he met me there. I was crying. I walked myself into the hospital. It was the most surreal thing. I checked myself in knowing that I was going to come out with a human being, which was bizarre. And when I finally got to labor and delivery, my nurse was so sweet, but I was crying so much that she was just like, "Are you going to be okay?" And I was like, "I really want a vaginal delivery." And she's just like, "Honey." She goes, "I understand. I do think he's making the right choice. I do think you're making the right choice," which again, I don't really feel like I had a choice in that.Meagan: Yeah, you're like, "I wasn't really given a choice."Liz: She was also trying to relate. She's like, "I've had three Cesareans. I promise you're going to be okay. You're going to be okay." I was just like, "I've never even had a tooth pulled. I don't know if I could do this."So my husband arrived again. I'm just crying. He's trying to cheer me up, trying to keep our eyes on the prize and the fact that we were going to hopefully have a healthy baby at the end of all this. I want to say between check-in and when my OB arrived and scrubbed himself in, it was probably about three hours. Yeah. And I walked into the OR, another bizarre experience. I just walked in.Meagan: Yeah. Yep.Liz: Okay, so everybody scrubs in. There's a whole host of people in there, including my nurse. I had never had surgery, so they're giving me all the instructions as to how I need to lean forward so that they can put a spinal block, I think, at that point, the anesthesiologist, and it was so bizarre. It felt like the most claustrophobic thing. If any of you have ever had Cesareans, hopefully you can relate to me, but feeling the numbness just go up your legs.Meagan: It is very strange. I walked in for my second one. With my first one I just had an epidural, but the second one I had a spinal.Liz: Yeah, yeah. So I mean, so bizarre. Then, like I had already mentioned I was so swollen, so they had to just take my very swollen-- I felt like a beached whale-- body parts and put them onto this operating table because I couldn't move once. Obviously, the spinal had activated. So that was bizarre. But my husband, I mean, this man is the calmest person and the nicest person I know. Thank God for him and his presence on that day. He kept me nice and calm. Everybody was really, really nice in the OR. The only thing I happened to notice at one point was they had my blood pressure cuff on. That's why I'm here, right? Because my blood pressures are so hig,h and it had slipped down to my wrist, so I had my arms out. I don't think my arms were strapped down. I don't remember that. I had them out, and I look over to the extent that I could to the anesthesiologist, like, "Hey, does somebody want to maybe put this cuff on? Because that's why I'm, here. That's why we're in this position right now." But yeah, my husband and I just chatted and laughed the entire surgery. Everything worked out really well with the spinal. I did not feel any pain. They did talk me through to an extent about what I would feel as far as tugging or pulling or pressure. My son was fortunately born really healthy, screaming, great Apgar score, the whole nine. He came, and oh my god, what a feeling. Obviously, I was so emotional because of how the birth had gone and what had led me there. But becoming a parent and seeing your child for the first time, you can't really describe that. It's amazing. I have really nice photos and video that the nurse took. They brought the baby over to me. They did not do skin-to-skin with me. Again, I had all of these birth plans, preferences, and, none of that came to fruition. None of that pertained to my or situation. I was so, so happy and also so sad. I don't know how to describe it. It was like the happiest and saddest day of my whole life up until that point. So recovery was interesting. I feel like I got maybe 5 hours of sleep in the hospital total. I was on a magnesium drip. People had told me that the side effects could be a little bit gnarly with that, but I fortunately didn't find anything abnormal. I think I had so much adrenaline. But I did try to get my son to latch, and he was having a really hard time latching. They had a lactation consultant from the hospital come in and see me, and I could not get him to latch. I happened to notice that his tongue was really tethered, super tethered. I could see the tie was really far forward, and he couldn't lift his tongue. So I kept telling them, I was like, "He can't lift his tongue up the way that I feel like he needs to." They just kept telling me how to hold my own body to try and breastfeed properly. I'm like, "I don't think that that's the problem though." So that was really challenging. They did want me to stay extra time for some monitoring. So the next day was Thanksgiving. I don't think my OB wanted to be there. It was a holiday, right? He took his sweet time coming in because they wouldn't even let me eat. That was the thing. I was on magnesium. They brought breakfast in at like 7:00, and he strolls in at like 10:30. I just watched my breakfast get cold in the corner. So that was interesting. But yeah, I think at that point, if you had had a Cesarean without complications, they were looking at about a 48-hour stay. But they asked me to stay an additional day because my pressures were still labile. They were still elevated. I did get put on-- I can't remember the name of medication, but it was blood pressure medication. I was taking Motrin for pain management, the hospital-grade Motrin for my Cesarean. I cannot even describe what it was like trying to get up and walk around that first time after surgery. It's insane. That was something I didn't expect. But yeah, I didn't get much sleep. The last day that I was there, my dog had gotten into a place in my mom's house that she couldn't get him. He had gotten into something, and she couldn't reach him, so she was flipping out. She called my husband. She didn't call me and just told him, "Listen, you have to come get the dog. I can't get him." So he did. I told him, "It's fine, it's fine, you can leave." While he was gone, I had friends come and visit me. They were still visitors pre-COVID. The covering physician came in. I had my son on Wednesday. Thursday was Thanksgiving and I saw my OB, and then there were covering physicians for Friday and Saturday. So we're at Friday now, Friday evening. He came in and saw me and he's like, "You know what? I might be able to discharge you tonight." I got so excited because I was like, this is my first experience having a newborn baby. My husband is trying to go deal with my dog. How awesome would it be if we could just go home tonight?So I got super excited. He said this right in front of my friends, too. He comes back in a short while later and was like, "I just looked at your chart. I looked at your pressures." He didn't clear out the room, nothing. And he's like, "You know what? I can't discharge you. Not with pressures like this. I can't do that." And he's like, "And the covering physician tomorrow won't be able to discharge you any sooner than late afternoon, early evening because that is when he will be here." I was like, okay. So here I am in my head thinking I could go home tonight, and now you're telling me I might be able to go home tomorrow afternoon or evening. I'm already very hormonal. I'm very emotional. My husband's not here.My friends wound up leaving, and I just sobbed. I just sobbed in my room like, oh my god. this is a nightmare. Why can't my body get it together? Why can't I just have normal blood pressures again?Meagan: Yeah.Liz: Yeah. We did wind up getting discharged the next day, but I remember that physician just being so the last straw for me in that experience. You didn't have to say anything at all, and then you also set it in front of all of my friends.Meagan: Uh-huh. Yeah. So you didn't stay with this provider, did you?Liz: I did not stay with this provider.Meagan: For your VBAC? Okay.Liz: No, absolutely not. Absolutely not. Yeah. I guess I should probably get into that story, right?Meagan: No, this has been great. This has been great. Yeah. Yeah. So you were done. You went home. You're like, last straw, no more, never again.Liz: Yeah. Yeah. And I did have my. My son assessed by a lactation consultant, and she said that was one of the most severe tongue ties that she had ever seen. She did recommend a release. I was four days postpartum at this point. I wound up supplementing with formula which was something I so didn't want to do, but I was just like, this kid is starving. He can't latch properly. I did. I went and saw a specialist, and I had his tongue and lip ties both revised, and it was severe. That was a severe tongue tie. I know people have mixed feelings about that, but he needed it. Even in my opinion, as a lay person.Meagan: Yeah. Yeah.Liz: But yeah, pretty much immediately I knew I wanted things to be different the following pregnancy and birth. I think I started thinking about my VBAC probably that day. It was probably the day I gave birth to my son. This cannot be how this goes every time.So it took me a really long time to even want to conceive again. Not only did I have all these complicated feelings about my birth because yes, I did have a healthy baby. Yes, I ultimately weaned off of blood pressure medication and my body came back to however you want to phrase normal, but I had had this experience that I was holding onto a lot of trauma from, and unfortunately, my son was four months old and my mom suddenly passed away. So yeah, it was unexpected. It was sudden. I still to the day am shocked that I didn't lose my milk supply, but I was able to pump in the hospital and get my son milk. That is a crazy, surreal experience losing a parent, but I don't think that there's much more cruel than losing someone that you care about so much. My mom and I were so close in a postpartum period that's already complicated by birth trauma. So now I had this grief for my mom. I had this grief for the birth experience I didn't have. I think that largely contributed to me waiting to conceive again. I also wanted to try and find out as much as I could about what causes preeclampsia. What exactly goes on in the body that would cause that to happen? Funny thing is the verdict is still out there. They're not exactly sure what causes it.Meagan: Yeah. And there are things that we can do to try to help avoid it, but there's nothing specifically that's like if you do this, you for sure won't have it.Liz: Yeah.Meagan: The same thing with gestational diabetes. It's within the placenta, but we don't know. It needs to be further studied.Liz: Yeah. I have heard that it has to do with the father. Have you heard that too?Meagan: I have heard that as well, that there's a connection. Yes.Liz: Yeah. So I wound up, I remember I saw a home birth my wife just for blood work between having my son and conceiving my daughter. She did mention, "Preeclampsia is largely a first-time pregnancy illness. Largely. It doesn't mean you can't have it a second time," but she was the one who mentioned to me you have a higher instance of getting it again if you have the same father for your child. And I'm like, "Well, I'm married."Meagan: Well, I am going to have the same father.Liz: Yeah. So that was always in the back of my head. It's like, okay well, subsequent pregnancy, less of a chance. But same father, more of a chance. So I was just wondering what my odds were. It definitely was there on my mind for a long time. I studied as much as I could about what could cause it. I've read Lily Nichols, Real Food for Pregnancy, cover to cover. Obsessed with her. Obsessed with everything she has to say. There it is right here.Meagan: And right here and right here. Real Food for Gestational Diabetes. Real Food for Pregnancy. Food is powerful, you guys. It's very powerful. But it's changed over the years.Liz: I know. I love how she presents the research because she's the one who really delves into it and presents it in such a digestible way. It was such an easy read. I was like, okay. Okay, here are some things that I can control. Can I control everything? No. But here are the things that I intend to do the next time.Meagan: Yeah.Liz: So my mom passed away in April 2019. It took, again, a few years, but by spring 2022, I was feeling ready. And my husband and I kind of discussed it. It was in little passing. "Hey, should we try and get pregnant again?" And it was one time. It's not lost on me how lucky I am in that sense that it took me one shot to get pregnant.Meagan: Which is awesome. Liz: Yeah. I found out my EDD for that pregnancy was going to be on Christmas Day.Meagan: Oh my gosh.Liz: Yeah. And I just said, "Wow, I can't avoid major winter holidays, apparently, with my pregnancies."Meagan: Yeah. Oh, my gosh.Liz: So we did not find out that we were having a girl, but she did wind up being a girl. Spoiler alert. But, yeah, I was really not feeling well that pregnancy. It was like aversions times 1000. I had this really bizarre one that I had never even heard anybody discussed before, but I had so much extra saliva in my mouth. I'm sorry. That might sound disgusting. It felt like when right before you're going to get sick, how your mouth fills up with saliva but all day.Meagan: Like your saliva glands were just excess all the time, giving you all the spit possible.Liz: Yeah, it was disgusting.Meagan: That is interesting. I don't think I've ever heard of that.Liz: Yeah, it was terrible. Fortunately, I was working from home. I was working full-time, but I was at home. I would just walk around with a spit cup. Like, how disgusting. It disgusts me to even talk about it. It's just like, what is happening? I was waiting for those aversions to let up because I couldn't stand the smell of coffee, which, I love coffee. Basically the sight of anything that wasn't pure oxygen was disgusting to me. The sight of opening up my refrigerator was like, ugh. Exactly. The gag reflex. That lasted my second pregnancy until 22 weeks. So it was rough. I joked that I was horizontal for 2022, and that's not even a joke. I really was lying down. I had so much guilt because my son was so energetic at this point. He was nearly four years old, and he had so much energy. He wanted to do things, and I could not muster up the energy most of the time. My husband was the default parent, and I never thought that that would be the case. That was really, really hard. That was probably the hardest part of the pregnancy. But yeah, so I started to really actively plan for that VBAC. I started to see a hospital-based group of midwives. I loved them. I had gone for well-woman visits between as well. But every provider that I saw was just amazing. I didn't have any bad things to say. I knew that I would be with them if I was in the hospital. But deep down in my heart, I really, really wanted to be at home. I had seen so many beautiful home birth videos when I did HypnoBirthing. And I also associated hospitals with sickness. I had been there because I developed preeclampsia.Meagan: Uh-huh.Liz: I had been there when my mom was sick and passing away. It was a sick place. I wanted to be at a place where I felt most safe. For me, that was home. I know people have a lot of feelings and opinions about that all over, but for me, that was what I wanted to do. I wanted to do all of the things to keep myself low-risk and able to birth at home if possible while still making plans for transfer and even surgery if it was needed again. So I wasn't ignorant to the fact that it could turn into that, but I was going to try all of the things.Where I live, there actually aren't a lot of home birth midwives who support HBACs, VBACs at home. But I found one and we clicked immediately. When I spoke to her on the phone, I was like, she is my girl. I need her. I need her energy at my birth. We met in person a few weeks later, and she was so, so gung-ho about it. She had mentioned that her mom actually had an HBAC, and she witnessed her mom having that HBAC. It was just ingrained into her. She really supported me with advice on diet. She helped me with supplementation. I was on a lot of supplements for this pregnancy. I'm not even going to front. I had so many alarms set for all my supplements daily. So yes, I was trying to support myself with diet, of course, but I was trying to also fill in any gaps that might be there with supplementation. I just know my diet's not perfect, and it certainly wasn't when I was feeling terrible.Meagan: Yeah, no one's is. No one's is. That's just the reality of it. We can be eating the best we can, and we still are often falling short. That's why supplements are really great.Liz: Yeah. Yeah. I was seeing a Webster-certified chiropractor the entire time to get myself into the best alignment to have that vaginal birth. The supplementation, I was doing reformer pilates. I had started it the year before, and I did it all the way until the very end of November 2022, so I was staying active. I was really trying. I basically said that I will do almost anything to keep myself at home. That was really my motto. Yeah, I really can't say I was totally worry-free. I was waiting for something to go wrong. I was. I was trying to keep this brave face as like, okay. I can do this. I can birth the way that I want to. I can have this complication-free birth and pregnancy experience. And in the back of my head I'm thinking, when is the next shoe go going to drop?Meagan: I mean, it's what you've experienced in the back story, the last story. And it's hard. Even if we've processed through things, there's still sometimes those little creeping thoughts that come in.Liz: Yeah. That is for sure. My midwife did recommend that I get a third-trimester ultrasound. That was more for her, but it was also for me. She never ever said, "You have to do this." Everything was really a conversation. The appointments, especially with a home birth midwife were an hour long or more sometimes. Just amazing. I loved going to see her. So I did get that third trimester ultrasound. It was more to check to make sure that the placenta wasn't compromised in any way and whether it was in a good position. There was no accreta. That was something that we really wanted to rule out to keep me low-risk and at home. I agreed with that. I am not anti-medicine by any means. I just want to put that out there just because I chose to have a home birth. I do respect medical professionals and their jobs and the need for surgery but I also wanted to keep myself in a place, again, that I felt safe, and that's really what it came down to. So in my head, I had mentally prepared to go to 41 weeks. I think that's where I prepared to go because I had learned that many, many women, especially first-time laboring women, because I did not labor with my son, I neglected to mention that I didn't labor at all. So first-time laboring women will go into labor typically, but somewhere between 40 and 41 weeks. Post-dates is very, very common. So in my head I prepared to go to 41 weeks and we got there. We got to Christmas. We through there. I was like, I'm going to go somewhere before New Year's Eve. No, nothing. So we got to New Year's Eve and here I am in my 41st week, and I'm just trying to keep myself calm. What am I going to do? I cannot go to 42 weeks. I can't do it. Mentally, I can't do it. Physically, I can't do it. I'm going to wind up at the hospital. Of course, all of these negative thoughts are swirling. I went for another adjustment with chiropractor. I went for an acupuncture session. I went for a few of them, but I did induction points with my acupuncturist. I was just trying to do all the things-- curb walking, I did the Miles circuit and all the things to try and help this baby engage. So we get to 41 and 1 for me, which is a Monday, and I was woken up with contractions that felt like period cramps. That's how I would describe them. Around 2:00 AM, I started timing them. They were 12 to 15 minutes apart at that point, but they weren't letting up. They were consistent. I woke up my husband getting all excited like, "Oh my gosh, this might be it. Here we are." And they weren't getting closer, but they weren't easing up. So they just continued like that for the rest of the day. I had gotten up from the couch at one point, and I felt like this small trickle. I went into the bathroom, and it didn't look like anything to me. It didn't look like much. There wasn't a huge gush of fluid, nothing. So I was like, oh, I think it's probably just discharge or maybe part of my mucus plug. I have no idea. I have literally no idea. But I was like, nothing seems off to me, and it wasn't enough fluid to be concerning. I did text my midwife to update her and she mentioned to me, "A lot of women will drop into more active labor when the sun goes down. Things get quiet. It starts to get calmer. I can almost guarantee that we're going to have a baby at some point in the next 24 hours." So I go to bed that night and thinking, I'm going to wake up Tuesday probably either be having a baby or have a baby already. I woke up Tuesday, and I was still pregnant. Here I was.Meagan: You're like, this is not what I was thinking.Liz: I remember I would wake up with a contraction, but again, they were 12 to 15 minutes apart. I would go to sleep between no issues and just wake up, breathe through the contraction, and go back to sleep. And that's how the whole night went. I just couldn't believe I was still pregnant. I really was starting to get a little down on myself. I was like, these aren't coming closer together. They're not intensifying. They're not letting up, but there's nothing really happening at this point. I texted my midwife again that morning, Tuesday morning, and she said she needed to come see me for the 41-week appointment anyway, so she said that she would come by that day. She was going to come to my house. And then we get to the mid-morning. It was probably around 10-10:30 and my contractions stopped, like literally up and left. Like, what is happening right now? I can't. I was in shock, literally in shock. Especially because labor had been going on for over 24 hours. It was absurd to me. But she's like, "Don't worry. I'm going to come see you for your appointment anyway." When she arrived later that day, I did ask her to do a cervical check because at this point I'm like, "Something has had to happen whether the baby moved down into a better station or I'm a little bit more dilated or just more engagement. Whatever it is, I just want to know at this point."Meagan:: Yeah.Liz: So she did. She said, "I'll go in there. I can do a cervical check and if I can get in there, would you like me to do a membrane sweep?" And I was like, "I would love that. Anything to get this going. Let's get the party started." I'm at my house. She does the cervical check. She's like, "I can do a membrane sweep." And as she basically finishes up, I feel this gush of fluid.Meagan:: Your water.Liz: Yeah. She stopped, and I said, "Was that fluid?" She's like, "I'm going to make sure it's amniotic fluid. I have the test strip," and of course, it lit up like a highlighter. She's like, "Yes." She goes, "So guess what? We're going to go after baby today. We're going to get this. We are going to get this party started." I had kept telling her, "I can't go to 42 weeks," and she kept saying, "Let's not go to 42 weeks. You'll be fine. We're going to get it moving." And here we are. She did mention, I was at that point, about 3-4 centimeters dilated, so pretty good. But she was like, "I can offer you, I have a Foley. I can offer you a Foley balloon just to put a little bit more pressure on the cervix and maybe we can get those contractions to start to start up again, and then hopefully come closer together." Yeah. So she did. She put that Foley in and she waited with me at my house, and we just chatted. It came out a short time after. It took very little. I didn't have discomfort with that, thankfully.Meagan: That's, good. I mean, your cervix was starting to come forward. Things were going.Liz: It was going. Yeah, yeah. So again, she stayed with me and once the Foley came out, she just advised me to put on some sort of protective underwear whether it was the adult diapers or a pad because now we knew that my fluid was at least leaking, but it wasn't coming out consistently anymore. I don't think it fully came out. It wasn't a big enough gush for it to be all of the fluid, if that makes sense.Meagan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.Liz: So she told me to do a few things. She's like, "I'm going to head out. You're going to call me when you need me," which, at that point, I was like, I have no idea what that means, but okay. And she's like, "Here are the things that you can do. Obviously nothing in there anymore, because we know that your amniotic sac is open.Meagan: It's broken. Liz: Yeah. Yeah, exactly. But she said, "You could do some pumping. You could use some clary sage essential oil." She gave me her TENS machine, and she's like, "You could try the TENS machine." I had never known that you could actually use that not for pain management. I only thought it was for pain management. So I was like, "That's so interesting." So she's like, "Do the pumping. Do that." So I did. I did one session, I think, before I put my son to bed for the last time as an only child. I did. I went and laid down with him and just knew that was probably going to be the last time that he would wake up or the last time he had woken up as an only child. And then I did it one more time, and not only did my contractions come back, I started timing them on the app, and I'm watching them get closer. They're going from 10 minutes to 8 minutes to 7 minutes to 5 minutes. I'm just watching them like, oh, my gosh. So we get to 11-11:30 at night, and it's just me and my husband there, and they are three minutes apart, and they're not easing up, and they are getting intense. So there it was. They came back.Meagan: And labor begins.Liz: Oh, it began. It began. I have so many interesting photos that my doula wound up taking. Thank God for her. Not only for the photos, but for everything that she did during the labor and delivery. It was intense. It gets intense, or in my experience, active labor when you get the breaks between the contractions and you are able to rest. I took every opportunity to rest. My doula was trying to guide me into different positions. She would help by putting a warm compress on my back at times. She would encourage even location changes in my house just to see if I could use the toilet. She told me to get into the shower at one point. I was like, "I'm too claustrophobic in here." I didn't like that, but she was trying to get me to try different things. But it was so intense. The craziest part for me was transition. That was truly an out-of-body experience. Everybody was doing these hands-on manipulations, my husband and my doula. But I could not do anything but just sway. I was standing, swaying back and forth in my living room, arms up. Why were my arms up? I have no idea, but they were up. I was doing that horse lips, breathing. Yep. It was just what my body did intuitively. I just, at that point, wasn't really getting a break. It was just insane. So that was intense. Out-of-body. I cannot replicate that level of pain in my head. There's just no doing that, but I knew that even if I needed to transfer, which I wasn't planning, but even if I needed to do that for pain management, I couldn't sit down in a car. I was at that point, so I thought to myself, the only way to this is through this. Like that is it. You've got to do it. We're just going to do it. So I knew that in my head. At no point did the pain concern me though. I mean, was it so intense and crazy? Yeah, but it was never like, there's something wrong.Meagan: Uh-huh. Yeah.Liz: So that was really good. I didn't think anything negative during that time except that I was in an intense amount of pain. But it was like pain with a purpose, if that makes sense.Meagan: Productive.Liz: Yes, yes. In the meantime, my doula had set up a birth pool because I definitely wanted to try to be in the pool when I gave birth, but I wasn't sure how I'd feel about the water since I didn't really like the shower experience. It took a while because the hose kept slipping off of our faucet or whatever, so they had to boil pots of water. I just remember my doula walking back and forth. In the meantime, they did call my midwife. Somebody did, and she showed up with her assistant. So there were like three or four adults trying to hold me in transition or do some sort of physical manipulations and then pour hot water into this birth pool.Meagan: Oh my.Liz: Yeah, it was very interesting. But yeah, my contractions, at that point, were 30 seconds apart and they were lasting a minute and a half. It was intense, yes. But the pool was finally filled at 6:45 in the morning on Wednesday, and the only reason why I know that is because we have pictures of me right before I got into the pool. When I got in, my body just relaxed. I didn't think I was going to be wanting to be in a supine position at all, beyond my bottom at all because I couldn't have even tried to sit on land. But once I got into the pool, everything relaxed and it was like, oh, this is what I needed. This is what I needed. I needed some relief. I also kept telling everybody how tired I was. Anybody who walked past me, I was like, "I'm so tired." They were like, "Yeah, no. We know. We know, but we're going to keep working."Meagan: Yeah.Liz: But yeah, I was in there for a really short time and I had heard of this before, but to actually experience it is next level. I had the fetal ejection reflex.Meagan: Oh yeah.Liz: So I did not even have another cervical check. Nothing. My body just started pushing that baby down and out. I couldn't have stopped it if I wanted to. I was making the most primal sounds. I have video of it, like low guttural sounds. It was probably going on for about 15 minutes. My son walked down, I heard his little pitter-patter of his feet, and he walked down. My stairs go right into my living room where I was. And the whole time the most nerve-wracking part of having a home birth for me was that I knew he was going to be home with us, and there really wasn't an adult aside from my husband and my birth support team who I wanted in my birthing space. So there was no other option of anybody to take care of him besides my husband if it came to that. I think in the back of my head, that was the most anxiety-inducing part of this.Meagan: Yeah.Liz: So down he walks. And of course, he's hiding. He sees these three other adults in our living room. I'm in the tub groaning.Meagan: Yeah.Liz: He's a little nervous. He's a little guy. Fortunately, I think it was either the birth assistant or my doula handed him his little digital camera that I had actually bought as a gift from the baby for him. Yeah. She encouraged him. She's like, "Why don't you take some pictures? Take some pictures of mommy and daddy." The minute that she said that and he started to do that, he calmed down and just wanted to be in it and part of it.Meagan: Yeah.Liz: Yeah. And I told him, "Mommy's making some interesting noises, but I'm okay. I'm safe. I'm okay." And he was just really good about it. I feel like all that anxiety went away, thankfully.Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome.Liz: Yeah. I noticed my midwife was starting to gather her supplies and in my head, I actually probably said it out loud like, "Wait, we're doing this here?" And she was like, "Yeah." I was like, "I'm having a baby here in this room." She's like, "Yeah." I was like, "I don't need to go to the hospital?" She's like, "No, no, no. You're okay."And, yeah. My body just kept pushing the baby out. And it was an hour, not even an hour. It was less than an hour from when I first got into the pool until my daughter was out. My husband got to reach down and put his hands there. As she came out, he felt her really chubby cheeks. She has big cheeks like me and her ear, and brought her up to my chest. I was just in shock. I couldn't believe that I had done that. But then, of course, I look and I see that she's a girl. I just knew my mom had sent me her. That's how I felt.Meagan: Oh, that just gave me the chills.Liz: Thank you.Meagan: Oh my gosh. That is so beautiful. I love that your son was able to be involved, and you could feel your mom. Oh huge. Congrats. Liz: Thank you so much.Meagan: Yes. Liz: My mom's name was Faith, and so my daughter's middle name is Faye because everybody who loved my mom called her Faye. She was Aunt Faye to everybody, every cousin. So my daughter's name is Luna Faye. So she is her namesake, and she's amazing. And like you said, I can't believe she's almost two. I can't believe this was almost two years ago.Meagan: Two years ago. I know. We get so many submissions and sometimes we can't get to everybody, but it does take a while sometimes. I'm so glad that you were able to come and still record your beautiful stories and give us so much detail of each one and guidance, and the experience. Yeah. I'm just so happy for you.Thank you so much. I don't think I'll ever come down from that high, that birth high. Like, I think I'll be riding it out for the rest of my life. I'm not sure I'm going to have any more children. I think we're pretty much done, but I would love to give birth like that a thousand more times. It was the redemptive story that I needed. It helped so much with my previous birth trauma, and it made me feel so strong. I have never felt more strong and more powerful than that experience. I don't think I ever will.Meagan: Yeah, well, and there's so much that went into it-- time preparing, research, finding this team, and then even dealing with the prodromal. I mean, that could be defeating within itself. You're so tired, but then you just kept going.Liz: Yeah, I kept doing the things. I mean, that was one thing that my doula and my midwife both commented on. They were like, "You did everything that you could, and you tried to control everything that you can control, and look what happened. That's amazing."Meagan: Yeah. Thank you again so much.Liz: Thank you. I'm so happy to have been able to talk to you and share my story.Meagan: Me too. Do you have any final advice to any of our listeners?Liz: I think my ultimate advice for any birthing person is to find a provider that you align with. I think they can really make or break that experience. No matter where you choose to birth or where you wind up birthing, have that provider that you trust, that you feel like you could have open conversations with. If you say you want a natural birth, they're not going to scoff at that, and somebody who's going to have conversations with you instead of talking at you.Meagan: Yeah, I agree so much. I want to add to just vet them. If they're feeling good at first, okay, stay. And if something's happening, keep going. Keep asking the questions, and if something's not feeling right, don't hesitate to change.Liz: I know. And I not only hesitated, but I knew I had to change with my first provider, and I just didn't. I think at that point, I was so tired.Meagan: Yeah well, it's daunting. It's a daunting thing. I mean, I was there too, so no shame in it. It's just hard when you realize looking back, oh, I could have. I should have done something different. I didn't, but that's okay. We've learned, we've grown, and we've had healing experiences moving forward.Liz: Yeah. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands