Podcasts about be her village

In this special episode, Kristin, host of Ask the Doulas podcast and founder of Gold Coast Doulas,  gives tips on building your supportive birth team. Krisin and Meagan talk specifics on HOW to switch providers if you're feeling the push to do so.Once we have our dream team, we're good and don't have to do any more work, right? Nope! We keep educating and preparing ourselves. That's the way to truly get the most out of that dream team. Kristin's book ‘Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby' is a one-stop shop where you can get all of the education you need for pregnancy, birth, and postpartum. Her advice is so valuable for VBAC moms and birth workers, too!Supported: Your Guide to Birth and BabyAsk the Doulas PodcastNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello. Hello. We have a special episode for you today. We have my friend, Kristin, who is actually the owner of Ask the Doulas Podcast on with us today. She is going to be talking about establishing our birth team and the importance of it. We're going to talk a little bit more about what to expect when we might not find a provider that's supportive and how to navigate it. She's going to talk more about her book and so many things. You guys, I'm really excited. Kristin is a woman who has always had a passion for supporting other women both personally and professionally. In college, Kristin served on the executive committee of her sorority and organized events on campus related to breast cancer and other women's issues. After the birth of her daughter in 2011, a new passion awoke within her. Kristin began reading and studying birth from all perspectives, philosophies, and medical approaches. She joined organizations like The Healthy Kent Breastfeeding Collation and used her event coordinating skills to build and promote the organization and create community awareness. You guys, she has done so many incredible things. Kristin's research has led her to learn more about doulas, and in 2012, she hired doulas herself for the support of her second birth. The level of compassionate care and comfort that she received from her doulas ignited a spark within her and led her down the path of becoming a doula herself. And man, can I connect to this because this is exactly what happened to me. When you guys have a doula who inspires you and touches you and motivates you the way it sounds like Kristin did and I did, even though my doula wasn't a hired doula, she was just a nurse that was a doula for the time being, it does something to you. She earned the certification and became teaching sacred pregnancy classes in 2013. But as you'll see, Kristin is a firm believer in achieving the highest level of education available when providing a service. Shortly after, she earned the following credentials-- you guys, are you ready for this? She's amazing. Oh my gosh. Certified Sacred Doula in 2014. She is a Certified Elite Labor through ProDoula. She is the Elite Postpartum and Infant Care Doula through ProDoula. She's trained in Spinning Babies, Newborn Specialist, Mother Ship, Certified Health Service Provider, certified in VBAC. She is certified in transformational birth and a birth coach for the Birth Coach Method. She is a certified pregnancy and infant loss advocate and certified gift registry expert through Be Her Village, who we will talk about. We both love them so much.She is also an author of a book which we will be sharing more about. It's called Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby. So without further ado, we are actually going to be skipping a review today and an educational topic because this is such a great episode to be educated and learn more about what Kristin is offering in her community. Okay, my love. Hello. Kristin: Hello.Meagan: We're officially getting going talking about this amazing topic. Tell me what you think about this. I think sometimes people want to assemble this dream team, but they let finances or even partners or other opinions get in the way.Kristin: Yes. Partner comfort level, especially with VBACs is key, or with clients of mine who want their dream is to have a home birth and their partner isn't supportive, so then they say, "Oh, it'll be with the next baby if everything goes well in the hospital." But then if they're a complication, they might risk out of the option of home. I think as consumers, we don't fully appreciate the ability to choose all of our birth and baby team. We can change providers. I switched providers with my first pregnancy early on because I didn't feel like that particular OB was on board with my plans to have an unmedicated hospital birth. I ended up switching to Certified Nurse Midwives and completely changed practices, completely changed hospitals in fact. It's a lot. Meagan: Yeah.Kristin: But it was worth it. And I had the time where it was easier to switch, but I've had clients switch very late in pregnancy. It was harder to find the right office to accept them, but with VBACs, it is crucial to have not just a VBAC-tolerant provider, but someone who is fully on board with your unique desires because we are all individuals.Meagan: Yes. I love that you said your unique desires. Everybody is different. I think it's really important to tell these providers what your desires are. We have a list of questions that we give people in our course and, of course, on the podcast. You can go down that list and check and be like, "Okay, this provider seems pretty supportive," but you guys have to tailor your questions and your provider. You have to tailor it to what your individual unique circumstances and desires are because everyone's is different. I would love to know. You said, I was realizing that this wasn't the right place. What kind of things were you hearing or being told or feeling when you were realizing that maybe your first provider wasn't going to be as supportive and in line with your unique decisions?Kristin: Just when I was talking about my wishes, I could tell that that particular provider liked structure and patience to get that epidural, and so once I started talking about movement, delivering in different positions and some of the things I had researched-- I hadn't yet taken a childbirth class because it was early in pregnancy, but I had done a fair bit of research before knowing what a doula was. I didn't hire doulas until my second. But I could just tell in that gut feeling which I rely on. Again, we're all unique. And yes, I do research, but I make decisions on am I comfortable spending my entire pregnancy with someone who can tolerate me and will say, "Okay"? But I could tell it didn't light her up. So once I found a practice where my nurse-midwife spent time with me, I had longer appointments, I could ask questions, and she was 100% on board with me, and then I was able to meet the other midwives and the OBs who oversaw them throughout the remainder of my pregnancy. I felt very cared for. And again, we are consumers. Whether your insurance pays for everything or you're paying for part of it, you don't get a do-over of your birth, and so it is so important, especially with that first birth to get the care team that aligns with you. That could be everything from a Webster-certified chiropractor, a physical therapist, a mental health therapist to deal with any anxieties that may come up with having a VBAC and getting a lot of fear-filled advice from friends and family members. I find that again, my clients are all unique individuals, and my students in Becoming a Mother Course, and now the readers in my book, have different goals, so I want them to choose the best plan for them. I love that you have worksheets and templates, but knowing that every situation is different whether it's a home birth, a trial of labor, or a hospital birth, that setting is different and the type of provider whether it's a nurse-midwife or an OB practice, how likely is the OB that is very VBAC-supportive going to be attending your birth? Are there 12 providers or are there only 4? And so there's just so many things to factor in when deciding what is important to you.Meagan: Yeah. That point that you just brought up, are there 12 providers? Are there only 4? Does your provider guarantee that they'll be there? These are things that I think a lot of people may not be aware of that because they found their provider. They're feeling good about their provider. They're jiving. They're having the feels, but then they may not be the ones to be there, so there are 11 other options. It feels overwhelming to be like, "Wait, wait. Do I interview all 11?" Yeah, guys. Yeah. You set up visits. It's okay. Go and see if you can meet with those. Make sure that that full team is aligned. It is a lot. That's a lot to take on, but it's okay to rotate and say, "Hey, I saw Dr. Jack last time. I'd like to see Dr. Joe this time," or whatever it may be. Really, really dive in, find out more about your provider's team if they have a team, and make sure that they align with your unique decisions and desires.Kristin: Absolutely. And that goes for doulas as well.Meagan: Oh, yeah.Kristin: So for VBAC clients, I, over the last couple of years, I do all of the matchmaking, I like to call it, between client and the birth doulas and postpartum doulas on my team, in fact. I like to find out what they're looking for. If they are attempting a VBAC, then many times, they're telling me they want a VBAC-certified doula. I have doulas that have gone through your program and are certified through you and other different VBAC trainings. They're not just wanting VBAC experience like in my early days of having Gold Coast Doulas. Now, they're wanting that certification because they know that information is being updated as things change. And there's more evidence for VBACs. They also want more than just, "Oh, I've attended four VBACs." They want the education behind it. So I think that is crucial. I'm not going to match, unless there's no one else available on my team, a client with someone who is not certified as a VBAC doula.Meagan: Yeah, I do the same thing with my group here where they're like, "This is really important to me. I want this specific type of doula." Some of my doulas have taken The VBAC Link course. And so I'm like, "Yep, this would be who I would suggest." But I also want to point out that even if you assemble your dream team doula, and they've got all the education and information on VBAC, and they're up to date, I want to just point out that it doesn't mean that you shouldn't inform yourself that you shouldn't get the information because sometimes I feel like it's easy to want to just hire your provider or your doula or your person and let them who know VBAC kind of help and guide you. But it is really important. You're doing yourself a disservice if you personally do not learn more about VBAC and your options as well and rely only on your provider or your doula.Kristin: 100%. The doula, I mean, unless you're paying her for it, will not be attending every one of your prenatal visits during pregnancy. The education that you have to make informed questions and decisions surrounding your birth plan or birth preference sheet, so those conversations are critical. The more information you have as a patient, the better. And as we all know, unless you're having a home birth, your visits are short even with a nurse-midwife. And so it's important to have those questions and to have time to really express concerns. Or if you're finding that that practice or that provider is not in line with your plans, then you can look at other options. And the hospital-- are VBACs even allowed at the hospital that you plan to deliver at? Are they going to induce? What are the Cesarean rates? And looking at all of the different options, and if you need to consider NICUs, that's always a factor in hospital selection as well.Meagan: Yeah, I'm going to kind of go back to where we were in the beginning where you realized based after your feelings and other things that this provider was not the right provider for you, you then changed to CNMs and had a much better experience. Can you discuss your process of that change? How did you change? Did you find the CNMs, have them request your information from the OB? Did you do a formal breakup with your OB? What suggestions would you give to someone who is wanting to do that? I know that sometimes, you were talking about it, in the end, it's a little harder to find, so that's why we stress so importantly to find your provider from the beginning. But we know that sometimes things change. So can you kind of talk about that process in then assembling that dream and getting the steps to get to that dream team?Kristin: Yes. So for me, I had asked friends about which providers they had worked with. So the original OB, a friend of mine, it was her doctor, and she had a great experience. I just wasn't feeling it. She had a student. We have teaching hospitals in my area, so there was a student in the room. I wasn't feeling like she was 100% on board. I could tell that she was very medically driven. I wanted essentially a home birth in a hospital. So I talked to more friends and did research online, and a friend of mine had used this particular practice. I ended up going with the midwife that delivered her three children, and it worked out beautifully because it was early in pregnancy. That practice had openings. It took me a while because I was changing hospitals and practices completely. My insurance, luckily, covered all of the options. But that's another thing to look into. Does your insurance cover the hospital where the provider you want to switch to delivers that if it is a hospital birth? Of course, you can VBAC at home in certain states. So just looking at all of the factors that would come into play. So for me, it was dealing with the paperwork of switching out of that practice, getting admitted, and going to that initial get-to-know-you visit with a nurse and doing my labs before I got to meet with the midwife that I had wanted to work with. And so it took a bit. I mean, no one likes to deal with the paperwork and the phone calls it takes, but your health is so important and especially again, for VBACs.Meagan: Yeah. So you essentially did all the paperwork and the transfer yourself.Kristin: Yes.Meagan: Okay.Kristin: I made all the phone calls, dealt with insurance and made sure that the initial visit was paid for along with the nurse visit, and then that insurance was comfortable with me.Meagan: Yeah. Awesome. Yeah, I did, when I switched, because I switched it 24 weeks, my midwife just faxed a request to my OB office. It took them a while to send it. We had to ask five times which I think probably would have been faster if I, like you, made the phone calls and did all the things, but I was like in this weird, vulnerable spot of like, I don't want to go back there.Kristin: Right. You don't want to deal with it.Meagan: Yeah, I don't want to deal with it.Kristin: Even just talking to the front desk.Meagan: Yeah, yeah. So we waited for it and they eventually got it. But I think that that's important to note. You guys can make the calls too. You can call and say, "Hey, I'd like to request my records to be printed out or to be sent to this place." Kristin: Yes, and that's what I did. Because otherwise it's six weeks oftentimes or you have to keep calling. They get lost. so I just handled it. But it can be challenging. And as doulas and certainly VBAC doulas, we know the providers who would be not only tolerant but supportive of VBAC. So we get those questions frequently from potential clients and clients of, am I at the right place? And of course, we support whoever our clients choose to have care from. But there's also, if asked, I will tell them about the practice and my own experience as a doula or the agency's experience. And again, in those large practices, there might be four who are so VBAC-supportive. They love it, but then there might be some physicians who are not as comfortable. They feel that a surgical birth might be the better route to go, ad so there's that. So what I like to do as a VBAC doula is to have my clients talk to their provider. Again, go over a birth plan or birth preference sheet and have them sign off on it. That way, if they don't attend the birth, then the other physicians know that this was approved. It's not just a birth plan that is thrown out there, but it has been discussed. It doesn't work all the time, but it has been helpful for my clients no matter if they're a VBAC client or this is their first baby, and again, they have certain goals that they want to achieve like potentially avoiding an induction unless medically necessary.Meagan: Oh my gosh. So I'm just going to re-touch on that, you guys, because that was really, really, really good advice and something I've actually never done or even thought about or suggested to my own doula practice clients. Get your birth preference sheet or birth plans everyone calls a difference. I call it a birth preference sheet, which is a list of all your preferences that you desire. Go over that with your provider, and have them physically sign it. Physically sign it and date it showing that your provider went over it. And like she said, every provider may not be willing to do that, but I will say, if a provider is willing to do that, that says something to me.Kristin: It does. Yes.Meagan: Yeah. Super powerful. Oh, my gosh. Okay, nugget. Grab it, put it in your pocket, everybody. Sign your birth preference sheet so you can have it and keep that in your bag, so if you do have that random on-call doctor who may not even know you or not be so supportive, be like, "This has already been discussed. We were aware of this. My doctor has signed off." Also, you could maybe ask if your provider could make a copy of that and put it in your chart.Kristin: Right. Because yes, it's not just the one that they have on file, but it's also for the ones that you have, that copy that you're bringing and showing the nurse so the nurse and everyone is on the same page. Meagan: Love that. Kristin: And again, with teaching hospitals, you might have residents in and out. There can be some difficult conversations with VBAC and residents who have never seen a VBAC. We're not fully trained yet to support VBAC, and so they might be making suggestions while the provider is not in that check-in. So every state, again, every area is different. I just happen to be in an area with multiple teaching hospitals.Meagan: Same here. We have seen it where I think, I don't want to say this badly. The VBAC world is a world that can have a lot of negativities in it, negative things and big words like uterine rupture. We've got residents who may be coming in and may be training under a provider who has seen a uterine rupture or has maybe molded an opinion on VBAC and is projecting their opinion to that student. Whether or not they're consciously doing it or not, they're saying their opinion, and those opinions might morph that resident's opinion into negative for VBAC. You never know. And so they might be doing things or be more hesitant in areas that they don't need to be, but they are.Kristin: Yeah, it's such a good point. And as you mentioned, I mean, we don't know the traumas that our nurses and medical team, even home birth midwives, have experienced, and they carry that with them. And how can they not? Even as doulas, we witness, but we don't have the liability and the medical training to make it, but we are witnesses of trauma and have our own healing to do to be able to better move on and support the next client. So certainly keeping that in mind that they may have seen something that alters the way they practice.Meagan: Yeah.Kristin: It's not just fear of lawsuits.Meagan: It's really not. It's not. There's a provider here in Utah who is literally so scared of vaginal birth herself. She scheduled all of her Cesareans, even the very first one from the get. She never had trial of labor or TOL. She just doesn't. So can you imagine what her Cesarean rate may be? And she kind of reminds me of the provider you're talking about. She really likes it just so controlled. Come in, start Pitocin, and get the epidural. She likes those things, which we know can sometimes lead to those Cesareans. And so really also discussing with your provider, how do you feel about birth? Have you had babies? And then we have another OB who's like, "I work in the hospital, and I love the hospital, and I trust the hospital system, but I actually gave birth at home with all three of my babies," and so really getting to know your provider, I think, is so good. Okay, let's keep going on this topic of assembling your dream team of experts when planning for birth and baby. What other things would you suggest to our Women of Strength?Kristin: Yes. So as we know, birth is as physical as it is mental, and just the opposite, as mental as it is physical. So preparing with a childbirth class, a comprehensive class, even if you took one before, use the lens of your goal of attempting a VBAC, a trial of labor. And so for us, we happen to teach HypnoBirth at Gold Coast Doulas and that mind/body connection that HypnoBirthing or a gentle birth offers where it's more of using the visualization the way an athlete would in preparing for a marathon or a triathlon, you are using things to reduce fear. You're understanding all of your options. It's very partner involved. I think taking a comprehensive childbirth class, whichever meets your individual goals, is great. That childbirth instructor is a great person to add to your birth and baby team. And then moving your body. So taking a fitness class that is appropriate for pregnancy. So prenatal yoga, there are Barre classes for pregnancy. There are prenatal belly dancing classes, whatever it is. Meagan: Aqua aerobics.Kristin: Yeah, water aerobics are amazing. And so thinking about baby's position and helping labor to go on its own or be quicker. There's acupuncture, acupressure, the Webster-certified chiro for positioning or body balancing experts, so many different options. But I am a big fan of educating yourself and preparing because as you mentioned earlier, Meagan, a doula is not your end all, be all. Just because we have the information and the training, we can't think for you. We don't want to think for you. The more informed you are, the more likely you're going to feel like birth didn't happen to you this time around and you were a direct participant, even if you end up having a surgical birth again.Meagan: Yeah, yeah. Yes. Oh my gosh. So talking about courses, you guys, we have our VBAC course. This VBAC course goes into VBAC, the stats about VBAC, the history of VBAC, the history of Cesarean, the stats of Cesarean, the questions, finding the provider, a little bit more of the mental prep, and physical prep. But when it comes to a childirth education course like with the course that she has, they're on different levels. I actually suggest them both.Kristin: Yes, me too. Absolutely.Meagan: But it's so important to know the information that is in your course. I know you go even past preparing for birth and then birth and then postpartum. You go into all of it. We're going to talk more about it. But you guys, we as doulas, love getting information and we love sharing information. But like she said, we don't want to be the only one that knows the information in a team. When our clients come in, at least here in my group, when our clients come in and they are fully educated and we're like, yes. And then we can come in with our education and our experience and knowledge, you guys, it is a powerhouse team. It is a powerhouse team. We have clients who, when they take child birth education classes like yours, they are able to advocate more for themselves. They feel stronger to stand up and say, "Hey, thank you so much, but no thanks" or "Maybe later," when our clients who haven't had that childbirth education or just any information other than maybe what we're providing, which is great, but not enough in the full length of pregnancy, it's a little harder. We have to try to encourage those clients a little bit more because it's harder for them because they don't know everything. We're there to help guide them and help advocate for them and educate them, but it is very different.Kristin: It is. It's so different. And I feel like, again, partners, especially male partners, want to fix things. They don't want their love to feel any pain, and so they may have the fear of a VBAC. So taking a VBAC class course, having a VBAC doula, giving information is just as helpful, if not more for the partner and their comfort level and to have them fully get on board because they may be resisting and just going along for the ride, but if you can get them to be an active participant in education, then they're going to be able to help you. And sometimes in labor, we get to a point in transition where we can't fully speak for ourselves. But if our partner understands, is educated and on board, and if there's time to talk through the risks and benefits and alternatives with your doula, then yes. But sometimes decisions have to be made quickly, and so for that partner to be informed and educated is crucial.Meagan: So crucial. It's so powerful. My husband-- he was not so on board. He was like, "Whatever. I don't care. You can go to the courses. You can do these things."Kristin: And that's very typical.Meagan: It's very typical. And I did. I did do those things. When I said, "Hey, I'm going to birth out-of-hospital," and he was like, "No," I was like, "Well, sorry. I've done the education. I know this is really where my heart is pulling." We touched on this in the beginning how partners really can influence decision making. And in no way, shape or form am I trying to say partners are terrible or don't listen to your partner or anything like that. That's not the goal of what we're saying is have an educated partner. Know that you can assemble a birth team, like a provider, a chiropractor, a massage therapist, a doula, a PT, or whatever it may be, but don't forget about your partner. Your partner is a huge part of your team, and if they're not educated and they're not able to help guide you through, or if they're not being supportive, find ways to help them be supportive by taking a course with them and helping them realize, oh, VBAC actually isn't that scary. Oh, that chance isn't really 50+%. Oh, okay. Hospital birth, out-of-hospital birth. Yeah. They're both reasonable, and really understanding that.Kristin: Absolutely. And sometimes I find that my students and clients may have not had success with breastfeeding the first time and potentially didn't take a class. So if their goal is to breastfeed or pump exclusively, then taking a breastfeeding class and having that IBCLC as a resource for their dream team in case it's needed because many times, you have the lactation consultant who's teaching the class, at least in my practice, and then they're also available for say, a home visit or a hospital visit, depending on where the class is taking place. And so I think that that's something. Even if it isn't your first baby and maybe you breastfed for a little bit or had supply issues or challenges after a surgical birth, that it is important to consider any education during pregnancy because it's much harder to get that education after you have your baby.Meagan: It really is. I love that you're touching on that, really getting into all the things and having your partner go with you. I remember I was like, I had a C-section, and I was swollen and tired, and I couldn't move very well. I was sore and all the things that sometimes come with C-sections. I'm trying to nurse, and I'm engorged.  I don't feel my letdown, and I'm just so engorged. I don't know. All I know is I have really big, swollen boobs. It's all I could tell. I couldn't latch. My husband was like, "That's it. We're going to the store. We're getting formula." Formula is fine. Not anything against formula.Kristin: He's trying to fix the problem and make you feel better.Meagan: Yep, yep, yep. Trying to fix that problem. But I was like, "No, I really want to breastfeed." At that point, I wasn't able to communicate. Like, I didn't get the birth I wanted. I already felt like a failure because I was actually told that your body failed. That's what I was told. So I was already dealing with this mindset that I failed. I had a C-section. I didn't want a C-section. And now the only thing I could try to do because I couldn't take that C-section back is breastfeed my baby. I wanted to breastfeed my baby. And again, we didn't take those childbirth education classes. He for sure didn't download any apps. I at least had an app trying to help me at that point, but he didn't understand. He didn't understand.And I'm like, no.I'm crying, and I'm like, "Please, just help me. I don't know what I need to help me." And he's like, "No, we're going to the store. Our baby's mad. You're crying." He was trying to fix that problem. But if we had already done that information education before and found that IBCLC before and him understanding how important that was to me, he could have been like, "I'm going to call her IBCLC. I'll get her over here right away."Kristin: Exactly. The last thing you want to do is go into the hospital to see a lactation consultant there if you can even get in.Meagan: Exactly. Yeah. So it just could have been so much smoother. Sometimes I feel like we were against each other at that point because he didn't have any education. With our first, I really didn't have much education. But with our third, it was like he really didn't have a lot of education. and I was over-the-top educated, so I was saying these things, and he was thinking I was demeaning him or saying he was stupid because it was just this weird thing. So if we can just come together with our partners and get all the education and get it all before really, find out a postpartum plan. Find out a breastfeeding plan. Right? Find out what you want. You guys, it just makes the pregnancy journey and the postpartum journey, so much better. It truly makes you feel like you're on that team because you are.Kristin: Yes. Absolutely. And certainly, I mean, you mentioned apps. Not everyone has the means or even lives in an area where they can take a comprehensive five, six, ten-week childbirth class. There are, obviously, online classes. There are some Zoom virtual ones where students are all over the place. But there are watching birth videos and YouTube and in my book, Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby, we talk about apps, so count the kicks. Especially for VBACs, doing the self-monitoring if there's fear of fetal movement and any sort of distress during the end of the pregnancy, then really understanding your own body and doing monitoring. It's not just when you're in your provider's office being monitored. You can make a difference yourself. So having some different apps and some education on your own, listening to podcasts like yours to get this information and reading books. So there's more than if you can't afford a childbirth class like HypnoBirthing, there are still ways that you can get educated and your partner can get educated. So yeah, take a look at all of your options and your budget.Meagan: Yeah, and we talk about this all the time because I love them, but Be Her Village is a really great resource where you can go fill out a registry and, hopefully, get some help for these things. Childbirth education classes, doulas, IBCLCS. But I want to dive a little bit more into your book, actually, while we're talking about different resources. We talked about the childbirth education, but can we talk about more about Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby and how this came into fruition and what all is included in this amazing book.Kristin: Okay, Meagan. So essentially the book came out of our online course. Becoming a Mother launched in the early pandemic when everything was shut down and our classes all had to go virtual. I was fortunate to be in a state where doulas who were certified were able to work thanks to our governor. So we were working, but there was still a lot of isolation even with our clients' prenatal visits. They wanted a connection, so we launched this course. We had talked about and did three live launches, got VBAC from our students, pulled people in from all the moms' groups before creating the first draft of the course. And then the course just led to the book. So the content in Becoming a Mother is what is in the book in a different format. So in Becoming a Mother, we have expert videos, so VBAC specialists and Webster-certified chiropractors talking about what that is. Pelvic floor physical therapists, car seat safety technicians, cord blood banking donation centers.Meagan: Awesome.Kristin: We have the experts speaking for themselves-- a pediatrician. And so in the book, anything that is medical and out of the scope of a doula, we had expert contributors, so I have a pediatrician friend of mine who contributed a newborn procedure section of the chapter and a prenatal yoga studio instructor, she's also a certified body balancer. She contributed to some of the fitness options in the book, and a mental health therapist who is PMA focused and certified contributed to the mental health chapter. We have an IBCLC that contributed to the feeding chapter, and so a lot of involvement, and then sharing client stories throughout the book and then our own wisdom. We have doula tips and wisdom at the end of every chapter. Meagan: Wow.Kristin: And so as clients were asking me for books over the years, I couldn't find anything that was positive. I felt like there were a lot of, this is your cry-it-out method for sleep because we have a whole chapter on sleep and it's very attachment-focused. It's like, one way for feeding, and we wanted our clients, with their unique choices for themselves, to have a book that supports people who want to plan surgical birth like that OB and that's their comfort level and a book for the same person who wants a home birth. You don't have to buy five different books. It's not always Ina May which is a great book but not for everyone. All of her different-- she's got Spiritual Midwifery and so many different books. It is great for grandparents to read and partners but is targeted to the mother or the mother-to-be and is great in preconception in that early planning. But also, we wanted to make it similar to the course and just as valuable for seasoned bombs as it is for new moms. And again, it's affirming. We tried not to have any fear-filled information in a simple, easy-to-read guide that you can pull out for reference and a lot of different, again, apps and podcasts and books to read and resources and evidence-based information about Black maternal health and where we're at in the country now and how the pandemic impacted birth especially, but also that postpartum time.Meagan: Wow. That book sounds amazing. So amazing. And you guys, you can get it in every form, even Audible. I'm a big listener. I like to listen to books. Kristin and Alyssa actually recorded it. She was telling me they had 10+-hour days recording this this book. You can get it, and we will make sure to have the links for that in the show notes. I found it at goldcoastdoulas.com/supportedyourguidetobirthandbaby.Kristin: It's there. You can find it off that website or it has its own page. It's supportedbook.com. Meagan: Supportedbook.com, okay. We'll make sure that's all in the show notes, so you guys can grab that. Okay, so you know a lot. Obviously, you wrote a whole book and a whole course and all this stuff. Is there anything else that you would like to share in regards to just our final assembling of that powerhouse birth team?Kristin: So don't forget, I know we're talking a lot about pregnancy and birth prep, but don't forget your recovery phase. And you had talked about your own personal struggles with breastfeeding engorgement, recovery after a surgical birth. If you have, well, you do have other children at home with VBACs, and so looking at childcare, postpartum doula support, or what kind of family support you're going to have after, it's more than just meal plans and prepping the nursery. We strongly believe that as part of your dream team, the postnatal team is crucial as well. So whether it's a lactation consultant, a pelvic floor physical therapist, if you want to get back to running marathons again or are leaking. I mean, we can all use pelvic floor physical therapy. It's not just the athletes who they support. Some people, again, with building a home or other life occurrences like a wedding or preparing for college, you look at your budget. You look at your main goals. For a wedding, it might be food. For postpartum, it might be sleep. So hiring a sleep consultant when baby's old enough or an overnight postpartum doula or a newborn care specialist. What are your priorities? And take the budget. What might be paid for by insurance or, a health savings flex spending plan that you need to run down? What might be gifted? Like you mentioned, Be Her Village. There are different ways you can budget. And in the book, we talk about all of that and looking at employer plans, how to navigate that, what questions to ask your HR department about other members, like a chiropractor, could that be covered? A therapist? Oftentimes, we don't know our own benefits and certainly, I don't know my husband's benefits fully, so to be able to investigate that early in pregnancy and figure out what might be fully or partially paid for.Meagan: Wow. That is incredible itself. I feel like that's a whole other conversation of, how to navigate how to do that. So definitely go get the book, you guys, because it sounds like there are just so many things in there that are honestly crucial to know. really, really important things to know. You are incredible. Kristin: So are you.Meagan: I just enjoy chatting with you so much. Anything else? Yeah, anything else you'd like to add?Kristin: And obviously, take taking trainings and courses. If I know you have doulas who listen. It's not just parents.Meagan: Yes.Kristin: As doulas go through The VBAC Link. Get certified as a VBAC doula. Keep up with information that is ever-changing. We all want to be the best doula for each of our clients, but I am a firm believer in continuing our own education and that more and more of our clients are choosing to attempt VBACs, and so the more information you can get as a professional, the better you're able to support. It's just not the number of VBACs you've attended anymore. It's clients wanting that knowledge so you can be busier and also a more effective doula by getting that training and then going through the certification process that you offer.Meagan: Yeah, have a directory actually with birth doulas where people can go and find it because when Julie and I created this company way back in the day, we knew that we were just two people here in Utah. We couldn't change the VBAC world. We could give as much information as we could. We could share the podcast. We could do those types of things. But when it comes to birth workers, we wanted to reach birth workers everywhere. It's so great that we have and we're still having more people come on because they're helping people so much. I mean, we know you have doulas that do it all the time. These doulas do help and there are actual stats on doulas that do it. But I agree. If you're a birth worker, stay up to date. Be in the know. Know what's going on because you will likely need to help guide your client through it. Kristin: Then you can charge more. So take that investment in a training like The VBAC Link, and then you're able to charge more because you're more experienced. You have more certifications. So don't look at like, oh, I don't have any money for continuing education. Look at how that's going to change your career.Meagan: Yeah, and I think sometimes too you can charge a little bit more, take less clients, and be more personal with those clients and dive into it. Especially because we do know that VBAC does take some extra stuff that goes on with VBAC. There's some extra work to be worked through. There are some extra things and so yeah, I love that.Kristin: Well, thank you so much for having me on Meagan, I loved our chat.Meagan: Thank you. You as well. As always, I loved our other chat as well. We have to keep going. I think I'm going to order your book today and get going on that. Even though I'm not a mom preparing, I think this would be such a great book to suggest to all of my clients. So thank you for sharing. Thank you.Kristin: Yeah. My secondary audience is certainly anyone who works with families in the birth and baby space, but it is targeted again, just similar to my podcast. It's like I have the listener of the pregnant individual and family, but also birth workers. The book is similar. Thank you for ordering.I appreciate it. Meagan: Yes. And can you also tell everybody where to find you not just in your book, but Instagram, podcast, and all of the social medias?Kristin: So my podcast is Ask the Doulas. You can find us on all the podcast players and you were a guest recently, so very fun. And certainly, we're at Gold Coast Doulas on everything from Pinterest to YouTube to Facebook to Instagram. I don't have separate social sites for my book because I honestly don't have time for that.Meagan: That's okay. Yeah, it's a package. It comes with everything, so you don't need to have another book page. Well, awesome. Well, thank you again so much.Kristin: Thank you. Have a great day.Meagan: You too.ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

“I don't think anyone pushes like a VBAC mom pushes.”In this episode, we chat about premature rupture of membranes (PROM) with Noel, a stay-at-home mom from Texas, as she shares her personal experiences and successful VBAC story. We dive deep into the importance of finding a supportive provider and the realities of induction. Noel was never able to fully dilate during her first birth. She and Meagan talk about the impact of meaningful milestones (like reaching 10 centimeters!) during a VBAC labor. Also, it's never too early to hire your doula!Premature Rupture of MembranesPreterm and Term Prelabor Rupture of MembranesNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength. It is March which means it is my second C-section baby's birth month. I love March so much because it's also when the sun starts feeling a little bit warmer, and you start hearing some birds chirp. We're kind of getting to that spring season, depending on where you are. Let's be honest, I'm in Utah, so it's still probably snowing every day in March. But I love March so much. And we're kicking it off with a really great episode. We have our friend, Noel. Hello, Noel.Noel: Hi.Meagan: I am so excited for her to be on today. She is actually in Texas, and tell us where again in Texas.Noel: The Woodlands, Texas. It's right near Houston.Meagan: Okay, perfect. And this is where you had your baby?Noel: No, so I actually had my baby in Dallas. That's where we were living at the time.Meagan: You were in Dallas. It says it right here on your little form. Okay, so she was in Dallas, you guys. So Dallas peeps or really just Texas peeps or really anybody. We know people travel for support and things like that. This is definitely a story to listen to. And then we are going to be talking a little bit about PROM. If you haven't ever heard about PROM, PROM is P-R-O-M and that means premature rupture of membranes, which means your water breaks, but labor doesn't really start, so it breaks prematurely to labor beginning.There's also PPROM, premature rupture of membranes, which means your baby is preterm. So we're going to dive into that in just a minute. But I wanted to tell you a little bit more about Noel. She is a stay-at-home mom with two boys. One is 3.5 and one is 5, so it's been a little bit since she had her baby. She actually submitted a while ago. We found this and I was like, I really want to talk about this because one, we talk about PROM, two, we talk about finding a supportive provider, and three, we talk about induction. I think it's important to note that if VBAC is more ideal without induction stereotypically, but it is still very, very possible with induction. I think there are so many people who are told that it's not possible out there or don't think it's possible or think that the risk is just astronomically increased when it comes to induction, and that's not true. So Noel has been doing lots of great things. In fact, she just told me a fun thing. She just started a company. Can you tell us a little bit more about that?Noel: Yeah. So we just started a travel agency. It's called Noel Mason Travel, and I'm specializing in Disney. I love Disney, Disney cruises, Universal, all-inclusives, and then eventually just catch-all travel.So yeah. I'm excited. Meagan: Love it. Fun fact about me that you might not know, and it's even more about my husband, we're a big Disney family. In fact, we just went to Disney World for the second time this year. We just got back literally two days ago.Noel: Oh my gosh. We're about to go.Meagan: We love Disney World so much. And my husband is a die-hard Disney fan.Noel: It's so fun.Meagan: It's exciting.I was just told recently by a friend that we definitely need to try a cruise, so maybe we need to connect. But yes, if you guys are looking to take your family to Disney World, definitely reach out to Noel. Of course, you can ask VBAC questions. Noel: Yeah.Meagan: Okay, so I'm going to go back. In addition to starting a travel agency, she loves cooking and is very passionate about pregnancy. She actually started an Instagram documenting her VBAC journey. In addition to fun and travel, I wanted to see if you could tell us more about your Instagram page where people can go and follow that page from when you were doing that.Noel: Yeah, so it's called Docnoelmason. I'm obviously not a doctor, it was just kind of a joke. But I created that Instagram at a time when I was grieving my first birth. After therapy, I realized how important it was for me to just talk. It didn't matter if anyone was listening. I just wanted to talk and educate. I created this Instagram basically just to educate my friends, none of them who were pregnant yet, on how to avoid a C-section, C-section recovery, if you have one. It was just a video diary. There's so much content of me just sitting on the couch to my camera, ugly views, just talking about what was currently going on.Meagan: I love that. I think that's going to be something that people will connect with because that's where we're all at. We just want to sit there and hear where someone else who's going through the exact same thing is. I just feel like we connect so much and that's why I love our community on Facebook, and I love this podcast, and of course, we love our Instagram pages and things and hearing everybody connect. We've been told that people have made actual friendships through this community. It's so awesome. So thank you for sharing that. We will have all of the links for the Instagram page and her new travel agency in the show notes if you are interested in checking that out. We do have a topic of the week instead of a review of the week. If you're just joining us, we have, for so many years, done a review every single week where people comment and leave reviews, and we share them. We're still loving those, and we're still sharing those. So if you haven't yet, leave us a review on the podcast. It really does help us so much in so many ways and truly helps other Women of Strength just like you find the podcast. You can check that out at Google. You can Google "The VBAC Link" or on Apple or Spotify or wherever you're listening to your podcast, leave a review. It'd be greatly appreciated. But today, we do have a topic of PROM. So like I mentioned, Noelle had PROM. I had PROM. She's gonna tell you more about her story of PROM. And I've shared my story a million times about PROM, but they say 10% of pregnancies will have PROM, premature rupture of membranes. I was 3 for 3. It just happened for me. That can be sometimes hard because water breaks, and what do we do? I mean, Noel, what were you told to do if your water broke? Did anyone say anything?Noel: With the first pregnancy, I was told to go straight to the hospital. Don't delay. Get there immediately. With the second pregnancy and a better team, I was told, "Just keep doing what you're supposed to do." Walk if you want to, but just act like nothing's happened.Meagan: Go carry on with normal life.Noel: Carry on. Yeah.Meagan: Yes. That is definitely something that we would suggest. Now, there are certain things that we want to watch out for. If our water breaks and it's green, nasty, meconium-stained, it might be a reason to go in to your provider or call your provider and have a discussion with them. There's prolapsed cord. That can happen, and that is a very serious situation where we need to get on our head and get our butt in the air and get to the hospital. If there is a cord coming out after your water breaks, it is an emergency situation and is not something to just hang out and carry on with normal life. But when water breaks, what I was instructed to do with my third pregnancy, also like you with a better team, a more educated self and I had doulas and midwives and everybody. It was your water breaks, you do a little check-in. What does the color look like? Okay, is it clear? How are you feeling? Do you feel like you have a fever? Do you feel flu-like symptoms? Maybe take your actual temperature and see if you have a temperature. Okay. We don't have a temperature. We're not contracting. All is well. Put a pad on. It's probably going to keep coming. Just to let you know, you will keep leaking and then keep going. Keep going. Now, it is important to know that it can take hours. I'm serious. Hours and hours for labor to start. And Noel's going to share her story in a second. But for me, it really took 18 hours until I was really going with my second. And then with my first, I actually started contracting soon-ish. So it might not be technically PROM, but I started cramping and contracting, but it really took until 12 hours for me to even be 3 centimeters dilated which was very normal as a first-time mom. Know that if your water breaks, it is not like, run to the hospital. We're having a baby right this second. You're gonna have a baby in the car. It's not always like that when your water breaks and contractions aren't starting. So just to let you know, about 95% of all births will occur within 28 hours of PROM when it happens at term at 37 weeks. Now, PPROM is, like I said, preterm premature rupture of membranes. That is something that you will probably want to go in for if your baby is preterm. That happens at about 3% of pregnancies. I just think it's important to note that it happens. Noel and I are proof of that. If it happens, it doesn't mean run. You don't have to run to the hospital. You don't have to think you're having a baby right this moment, but it's something I suggest checking in with your provider about beforehand saying, "If my water breaks, what would you suggest?" They might suggest go straight to the hospital. We know it's not necessarily what you need to do, but at least you know your provider's suggestions. Okay. All right, we are going to take a quick break for the intro, and then we're going to get into Noel's story. All right, Ms. Noel. I have taken so much of your time already, so thank you so much for talking PROM with me. Yeah, let's turn the time over to you.Noel: Okay. So with my first birth, I was the first of my friends to get pregnant and I just had this very fairytale view of pregnancy and birth. I really just knew what happened in movies. So like you said, the water breaks, it's water everywhere, and you run to the hospital. I just had no idea what to expect. I had listened to some birth stories enough to know that getting a doula would be important, but at the time, I thought that is way too expensive and something that I, in my first pregnancy, don't need which is so silly looking back now, especially with my C-section bill being what it was "too expensive". It would have saved me a lot of money. But yeah, I did no techniques like Spinning Babies, no chiro, no PT. I just felt very unprepared. And looking back now, I think my doctor really preferred it that way. I think she didn't ever push me in that direction. I also had SPD and it basically felt like a knife was jamming up anytime I would walk. And again, my doctor never pushed me in any direction. She just said, "Rest when you can." That was awful. I was also told I had an anterior placenta which is a weird thing to remember, but I remember being a little bit scared by that. I guess that's why I logged it. They told me there was no risk to having one. It didn't really matter. But now looking it up, of course I know that can really affect the position of your baby. So flash forward to my growth scan. No surprise, I was told that he was sunny-side up. Of course, I asked, "Is there anything I need to do? Does that matter?" And the doctor said, "No, totally fine. Doesn't matter." You'll have a healthy Baby. So I said, "Okay." They found my fluid was low on that scan as well. Of course, I didn't ask what the level was. I just said, "Okay." They said, "We want to induce you in the next few days." So again, I was so excited to have this baby out. With my first one, I was like, let's get it on the books.Meagan: That's very common.Noel: Yeah. Yeah. So many of my friends I see doing the same thing. Again, you just don't know any better. You're ready to not be pregnant. We scheduled it for July 3rd, which again, I think was a huge mistake a day before a holiday. But again, I wasn't really thinking. I was put on Pitocin. I was already a little bit dilated, put on Pitocin and I was dilating about a centimeter every hour. Pretty uneventful. I would have to move positions. The baby's heart was acting up a little bit, but nothing really to worry about. I got to 9 centimeters. They brought out the table, all the fun vacuum forceps, and I was ready to go. That was probably 4:00. Well, every hour they kept coming in and checking me, and I was still a 9. So a couple hours into that, my doctor came in and said, "We're going to have an emergency C-section." That was that. No questions, just this is what's happening.Meagan: Can I ask why they called an emergency? Was baby struggling or did they just use the emergency to justify as being a Cesarean?Noel: Yeah, I think at the time of day, "Let's get this baby out of you before it's midnight. We want to go home." But no, aby was fine. Like I said, the heart was acting up a little bit, but no one was concerned. She just said, "This is too long to be dilated like this and not have any movement." Again, a first-time mom, I was just like, okay. I remember crying. My mom's crying. I'm crying. We're both just a little nervous about what's about to happen. The doctor came in and sees us crying and goes, "Don't worry, I'm going to have you back in that bikini by the end of summer." It still just has stuck with me what a routine moment this was for her and not a big deal to her. She just thought I would be worried about my body. It was just so ridiculous. The birth was fine. You know, we talked about the Bachelorette. It just was not what I thought would happen as they were operating.Meagan: During your birth?Noel: During my surgery, both the JOBs are talking about the Bachelorette, and I'm chiming in, and I'm just thinking, this is not what I had planned. This is not the moment I envisioned. It was really weird. So that next morning I'm recovering and my mom comes in and is like, "Hey, I don't know if you know, but one of my friends had a VBAC after her C-section with her second baby. She had a VBAC." And I asked her what a VBAC was and we talked about it. Right then I decided, this is what I'm going to do. I'm not doing this again. I am not doing this again. I'm going to have a VBAC. Flash forward about a year, I decided we would get pregnant again or would start trying, and we got pregnant right away. Thank God. In this time, I happened to find this article on Google listing hospitals to avoid for C-sections in the United States. Yep. You know, the article. Mine was number eight. Number eight. I could only laugh at that point, like, okay, all right. This time I'm going to be doing my research.Meagan: Yeah.Noel: So when it came to choosing my provider, I really felt like that was the biggest thing that could set me up for success. I knew I wanted to have the baby in a hospital again. I wasn't sure if it was going to be with a midwife or OB. I joined a Facebook page. It wasn't ICAN, and it was a group our of Dallas. It was a C-section Awareness Group, the Dallas page. There was a supportive OB who was mentioned there.  I had an appointment with him and he was fine. Nothing to write home about. This was also during COVID, so all of those rules were in place and work mattered. I also started searching for a doula at 8 weeks because I just figured, if I'm going to have one, let's have one. I'm going to have them the whole time. One of those doulas suggested moving practices to a group called Dallas Midwife Associates, and now they're Midwife and Co. They are known for supporting VBACs, and the hospital that they deliver in Baylor is also known for just being a very VBAC-supportive hospital. So I switched to that group, and the coolest thing about them is you see a different midwife every appointment you go to. They just cycle you. So by the time you're ready to have your baby, you know everyone on the team. They all know you. You're not worried about your provider being on vacation. There's no pressure for induction or anything. They were so amazing and awesome cheerleaders. The OB who they are in practice with who would do a C-section if I needed one or became high-risk and had to go see him, he was also supportive. So that was awesome. I could not recommend them highly enough. But yeah, just preparing this time, I think, being so clear with myself about why I wanted this VBAC. For me, it was the biggest thing at the time was the recovery. My kids were going to be 21 months apart, and I did not see how I was going to be able to have a baby and another baby if I can't lift up the first one. He was still in a crib. I didn't see how that was going to work. And so the recovery was super important to me. The experience was important to me. I wanted to do everything in my power this time to know that if I had a C-section, it was a true emergency, and that I could look back on that birth and say, "Well, this is what was supposed to happen. This is why C-sections exist," and not, "Oh, gosh, I could have done XYZ differently this time." I also had the SPD again and was not about to let that fly. With a toddler, you're constantly moving, so I couldn't be in pain all the time. I went to go see a chiropractor. I went to physical therapy. They both recommended Spinning Babies as well as my doula. So I did Spinning Babies. I was kind of crazy about it. The whole don't recline more than 90 degrees, the flashlight trick thing, that was everything to me. So 30 weeks on, you would not catch me reclining. I sat with the best posture or just laid flat on the couch because I was not about to have a sunny-side-up baby.Meagan: I can totally relate to that. I didn't sit on a couch. I didn't even sit on a couch because I was like, I'll sink too much and it will turn my pelvis in. I remember driving all back up and pelvis tucked forward.Noel: On the tip of your chair.Meagan: On the tip of my chair not wanting to have a posterior baby at, all. And then I got one.Noel: It just shows you-- yeah, exactly. You're not really in control of it. I asked about my placenta this time. Again, that's nothing you can prevent, but I knew I had lower chances if it wasn't anterior. That was good for me to know that if it was, I would need to work even harder. I don't know how I could sit up any straighter, but do my best. And then I also had what's called an overactive uterus. I guess I just had constant Braxton Hicks. Google would tell you to go into the hospital, you are in labor. So many Braxton Hicks. My belly was just constantly hard. So because of that, I didn't do any of the tea. That would make it worse. Anytime I tried, I would have more Braxton Hicks.Meagan: Because it's a uterine toner. So that's what it is. It is made to help a uterus that is contracting be more efficient. If your uterus is hyperactive already contracting, it's going to try and make it contract.Noel: Yeah, it would go nuts. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I did do the dates. I'm a big believer in the dates. Plus they taste awesome. So there was really no harm in that. Okay, so flash forward. It's 38 weeks. I was off and on higher blood pressure. But on that day, I had a reading of 137/95. They began to get a little worried and just said, "Okay, you should monitor this at, home that whole week, and then at 39 weeks, we can figure out if this is still a problem." They did mention an induction if the blood pressure continued to rise or stay the same. I came in at 39 weeks. I was planning on not getting my membranes swept. I wasn't into the risk of that, but with the induction looming, I guess I should say. They did test my blood pressure that day, and it was 137/100. The protein in the urine was negative, but they were still a little worried because it wasn't really going down. I went out to the parking lot. I called my doula, and we decided that I would get swept at that point. The induction was just going to be a few days away, so we figured the risk was probably worth it at that point and went ahead to get checked for how dilated I was. I really wanted to start with the Foley bulb instead of Pitocin if it was possible, but they ended up finding I was 4 centimeters dilated and 70% effaced. Meagan: Okay, that's great.Noel: It looked like I was ready to go. I got swept that same day. Again, I said this was COVID, and the shots had been out for like a month. I found a place for my husband to go get a COVID vaccine because I was crazy pregnant, hormonal, and I kept hearing all these horrible stories about husbands not being able to be in the birth because of them having COVID or something. He's a Baylor sports fan, and Baylor been awful for forever but happened to make it to the national championship that day and that night. He was like, "I don't want to feel sick for this game. I'm not going to get it." Of course, me being almost 40 weeks pregnant could have cared less how he felt and if he was going to feel sick, so the poor guy gets his shot. I'm having contractions at that point, thinking that it worked. So I'm walking around the living room like we're about to have this baby, and he starts shaking and drops his water. Glass shatters all over the ground. He came down with a 104 fever in the middle of this game he has been waiting for his whole entire life. I'm contracting. It was so stressful. So I called my neighbor and was like, "Hey, I think I'm having this baby tonight. I might need you to drive me to the hospital. I don't know if Luke's going to be able to be there." I mean, he was in bed, not okay. Awful, huh? It was so awful. I was just praying, "Lord, I know I've been asking for this baby to come, but please, please, please, can you stop all of this?" I woke up, and completely, everything had stopped. So thankfully, his fever went away throughout that next day. My doula recommended I go to get acupuncture. I thought acupuncture was the same thing as acupressure. I was expecting to go in for a massage.Meagan: Yeah, very different. Very different.Noel: Very different. Very different. I was a little freaked out by all the needles. The next morning I woke up and thought, "Oh, crap, that didn't work. What was the point?" That morning was the 8th. I had an appointment later that day to talk about the induction. I dropped off my son at school. I always heard on this podcast, labor will start when you put your kid to bed or they go to school. I always thought that was so funny. I didn't think it would be me. I dropped off my son at school. I go to my chiropractor's office, and I text my doula and I'm like, "I think my thighs are wet. I feel like maybe my water broke." But, you know, there's so much nasty stuff going on down there at the end of pregnancy. I kind of talked myself out of it. I went to the bathroom and was like, no, I'm just not in control my bladder anymore. I don't know what's going on. On the whole drive home, I just felt more and more liquid. And then getting out of my car, my neighbor and I were getting out at the same time, and I start walking and could just feel more and more wetness. I just stopped and waited for him to go inside. And finally it hit me like, okay, this is my water. Yeah. So I called my midwives and my doula and everyone said, "Just continue doing what you're doing. Everything looked normal. The liquid was clear. I really did not want to be induced. They knew that. My doula knew that." So that whole day, I did everything I could. I did curb-walking. My doula gave me a circuit to work on. I did the Spinning Babies, and nothing happened. My blood pressure was still high, so they wanted to see me that afternoon to do a stress test to make sure the baby was okay and check on blood pressure again. So I went in, did the stress test, baby was fine. But they said, "We'd like you to go to the hospital tonight around 9:00 if nothing has started." Nothing started, so I was upset. But again, I trusted my team and that was the difference here. They were still great with me having a VBAC with Pitocin. There was never a moment where they considered not letting that happen. So I got to the hospital, asked if I could labor until 3:00 AM and just see if it started. Didn't start. They got me on that Pitocin. And at this point, I was still hoping to do things as natural as I could while being in the hospital. I was really hoping to avoid an epidural. I again was not happy about the risks of an epidural, but those Pitocin contractions really were coming on strong. I remember going and trying to labor on the toilet and sitting on the toilet and feeling and hearing what felt like a bowling ball, like a dunk, and I think it was probably the baby settling into a better position. At the time, I hated it. I hated that feeling. I literally looked around and was like, "Did you guys hear that?" It felt internally so loud. At that moment, the contractions started coming on even stronger than before. At this point, it had been 24 hours without sleep. I was not taking the contractions well. I said, "Let's do a check. If I am an 8 or higher, I'm having this baby with that epidural. If not, we'll see what happens." I was still a 4. And so again, I don't think I would recommend it if you would like to go without an epidural. Don't get checked. Just don't get checked. I knew that. I knew that, but it was a different moment when I was actually in labor. So the upside is I was finally able to rest whenever I got that epidural. A couple hours later, I was a full 10 and ready to go. They had me labor down for a little bit, but I will never forget that moment as a VBAC mom when they told me I was out a 10 having never gotten to the 10. Oh, I get chills just thinking about it. It was so special. I labored down for an hour. They turned down the epidural. I could not feel my legs. And so again, Baylor is a teaching hospital. So I had a nurse in training, I guess I had my midwife and then they had a midwife in training at the time, and then husband and my doula all in my room just surrounded. My husband hates it when I say this, but it was the feminine energy. It was just so amazing. Everyone was so hyped and excited for me. I don't think anyone pushes like a VBAC mom pushes. I felt like I was in a throw up. I had this ugly rag on me, but I could have cared less. I was just so excited to get to push. The baby came out with my first. My first baby was 7 pounds-12 ounces, 21 inches long, a normal-sized baby. This baby came out and was 10-pounds, 4-ounces, and 24 inches long. I grew a mega-baby compared to this first one. It was just so great. I didn't do the growth scan with this baby because I was so afraid that if they told me that the baby was big that I might be tempted to get a C-section or scared out of having a VBAC. I knew our bodies were made to do this. No matter how big this baby is, my body can do it. So yeah, that was that.Meagan: Oh my gosh, that is amazing. I am so grateful that you had that team and that energy because that energy is so important, and I do believe that it helps us VBAC moms, and really any mom get through that end stretch that sometimes can be intimidating or it can be longer, and then I love hearing that you got to not only have your VBAC, but then it was like, "Not only did I VBAC, I VBAC'd with a baby that was almost three pounds heavier, bigger than my other baby." So many Women of Strength listen to this podcast. I'm sure you've seen it in your forums. People don't believe that they can do it because our providers and our system tell us we can't because we go through these growth ultrasounds and they create some fear. I love that. I love it so stinking much. That's so amazing. Congratulations.Noel: Thank you. Thank you. It was amazing.Meagan: Are there any other tips that you would suggest in you finding a provider or dealing with PROM and not getting frustrated? I think it said one of the best tips that you would give to someone was making sure your provider and the providers they work with are not just VBAC-friendly, but they're really supportive. Do you have any tips to that?Noel: Yeah. That is, again, what I always tell my friends because if your team doesn't trust that you can do this, that's going to really set you up for failure. I just know so many people who are like, "Oh yeah, I asked my doctor if I could have a VBAC after my C-section and they said, "Sure, we'll just see how this will go, and my heart drops." I'm like, this is not going to go well.Meagan: Actually, that's a red flag.Noel: It's a huge red flag. It's a huge red flag. Yeah. I know me who can be a warrior. It was really important to me that everyone who would be around me was supportive because if I had one person come in there and try to poke my bubble, it could start getting in my head and that I don't need that. So, yeah.Meagan: Yeah. Not even just your providers, but your team and your atmosphere around you. I mean, sometimes in that end of pregnancy when we're being told, "Oh, you why haven't had a baby yet?" or "Your baby's gonna get too big," especially if they were ever given a diagnosis of CPD where their pelvis is too small or anything like that, the things that people say can really get into our mind, so we have to protect that bubble and not let anyone try and poke it and pop it because you deserve to feel safe, love, supported, heard in that bubble.Noel: I think listening to the podcast. I listened to this podcast every single day while I would walk with my firstborn. That helped give me the security. I knew, okay, this other mom had this story that's similar to mine. I can do this. If she could do this, I could do this. So it didn't matter whenever I had people come in who had no idea what a VBAC was try to talk me out of it. You have no idea what you're talking about. I have equipped myself with so many other women's stories. Meagan: You're like, "I actually do."Noel: Yeah, right. I'm Dr. Noel Mason. I know it.Meagan: So yeah, I love that. I am Doc Noel. Another thing that I pulled out from your story was you reaching 10 centimeters and having that feeling and not even maybe realizing how badly you needed to get to that point or hear those words. They're just milestone markers. I was in that too. I needed to get past 3 centimeters because I was told that my body couldn't. Once I was past 3 centimeters, it was like, okay. Okay. Even though I knew in my mind I could dilate past three centimeters, I knew I could. There was still this weird hang up, so once I heard that number past 3 centimeters, I can't explain to you this utter relief and aha moment of like, okay. It gave me this surge of power and strength to hear these words. I think it's really important while we're preparing for our VBAC to process our past births and realize what might be triggering and what might be milestone markers that help encourage you and communicate that with your team. Let them know, "You guys, I have never made it past 9 centimeters. I hung out there forever. I was told I needed an emergency C-section. The number 10 is going to be a big deal for me. I need you guys to help me with that," or whatever it may be. Or, "I really don't want this to happen. Can you help me avoid this?" I think communicating with our team comes with preparing for a VBAC, but also processing things mentally and understanding those big moments that you need is okay to be like, "Yeah. That actually was a big deal for me. This is a big deal for me." My water breaking was a trigger for me. But then to hear that my body could get past 3 centimeters on its own was a huge deal. So I just love that you were like, "I felt that," because I could just really remember back when I felt that moment, of like, yes, yes, I can.Noel: I can do this.Meagan: I can do this. And Women of Strength, as you're listening, I want you to know you can do this. Noel and I are two of thousands and thousands and thousands and hundreds on this podcast who have come before you who have done it. It is possible, but you do have to set yourself up in all the right ways. We know even then, sometimes you can do everything right and still not have the outcome that you want, but our goal here at The VBAC Link is to help you have a better experience. So getting that information, building your team, finding that supportive provider, all of that, and then also knowing your options if a Cesarean is needed, I just think it's so important to know that you deserve it. You can do it. You are worth it. You are worth it. And like Noel mentioned in the beginning, I didn't hire a doula because of costs. I just thought it could be by myself, and then she had this massive Cesarean bill. Sometimes these doulas or education courses or whatever, going to PTs and chiropractors may seem like it's too much financially or you can't do it, but in the end, it really pays off. I'll tell you, there's not a single day in my life that I look back and be like, I can't believe that I went to this two chiropractors and paid this much for that, paid for my doulas, paid for an out-of-hospital birth. I never even questioned that. That money was well spent. Even if I didn't have a VBAC and had to transfer and have a Cesarean, it still would have been well spent because I had a better experience. I felt empowered. I'm also going to plug Be Her Village. I'm sure you guys have heard me talking about it before. I love that company. If you are in that situation where you don't feel like you can financially do it, go register for Be Her Village. You guys, it's a registry for doulas and postpartum and PT and chiropractor and all these things. It's a place where you can go because I'm sure Noel will say it's worth it.Noel: Definitely. Yes, definitely.Meagan: Yeah. And hire a doula early on. I think having a doula early on in your pregnancy who can literally walk through this journey with you is so powerful. It might not be something where you talk to her every day. It might not be like that, but having that person in your corner, I love that you were able to go outside and call and be like, "This is a situation. Let's walk through it," and have that sounding ear and extra opinion and in the end supporting you in whatever you decided, and you decided together that you wanted to do that.I think it's so, so powerful. So as a reminder also, we have a whole registry of VBAC doulas. You can go to thevbaclink.com/findadoula. They are literally trained in VBAC and know the options and want to help you navigate that. Any other tips that you have?Noel: No, but thinking of the doula thing, again, at eight weeks, that is so important. I know a lot of people are like, "I don't even know if this baby is viable yet." I don't even think I had had my first--Meagan: Ultrasound?Noel: Yeah, yeah. I had no idea. But if it weren't for interviewing those doulas, I probably would have stuck with that original provider that I had in mind and gone the whole pregnancy with them. Because if they would have told me to switch at 20-something weeks and my provider was fine and supportive, there would have been no reason to switch. I'm so glad I talked to them when I did.Meagan: Yes. Oh, that is such a powerful thing to remind people of because doulas know the area. Doulas work with these providers all the time. It's outside of our scope to be like, "This provider is garbage. Don't go," or tell you what to do exactly. But at the same time, and maybe it's not really outside of our scope to say that. Maybe it's not really. It's maybe just not appropriate to be like, "This is garbage." But at the same time, we can be like, "Hey, this is what I've seen. I would encourage you to check these people out also. Hey, here are some questions to ask for your provider."Noel: Yes.Meagan: I love that. The doulas know the providers in the area, and they can help guide you through what really is that supportive provider.Noel: Yeah. And supportive hospital or birth center, whatever. They know. They've been there. They have been to more than we have. Yeah. Yeah.Meagan: Yeah. There is a hospital here in Utah that anytime someone wants to VBAC, at first, for a long time, I was like, "Okay, you know, just do whatever feels best," until I saw too much and now I was like, "Listen, I'm gonna be straight with you, and you don't even have to hire me if you don't like my honesty. But if you want a VBAC, you're going to the wrong place."Noel: That's powerful.Meagan: I have said that. You're going to the wrong place. Trust these people. They know. They've seen it. They're there. They're really there.Noel: Yeah. Yeah.Meagan: Yes. Okay, well thank you so much again for your time today and your stories and congratulations on your cute, chunky baby.Noel: Thank you. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

What so you need on your registry that will leave you feeling prepared for your newborn? Today we are joined be Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of BeHerVillage who is changing the narrative about how we prepare for parenthood and how being intentional about how we create our baby registry can make all the difference.We will cover:Biggest mistakes most people make when making their baby registries How to prepare your family for the transition of parenthoodEssentials families should add to their registryHow to get started with creating a registry that will work for youYou can learn more about Be Her Village and Kaitlin's work at:Website:   https://behervillage.com/ Instagram: @behervillage TikTok: @behervillage Don't forget to check out the blog postResources mentioned:>>  FREE Ideal Registry Quiz and Personalized Guide>>  A Path to A Powerful Birth Class *you can add it to your registry! ;)************************Get 20% off your first monthly subscription with NEEDED Vitamins 

We hear SO many of our listeners say things like, “I wish every first-time mom listened to these stories” or “I wish as a first-time mom I heard these stories because I truly believe it could have helped me avoid my Cesarean.” First-time moms, we want to educate you to make informed decisions during your birth. We want your first birth to be an empowering experience, no matter the outcome. And if possible, we want to help you avoid an unnecessary Cesarean.  Meagan shares some of her best tips for first-time moms regarding induction, big babies, ultrasounds, and more. We also asked members of our VBAC Link Community to send in their best tips for first-time moms. We hope this episode becomes a great starting point for you to then go on and listen to the powerful stories shared in our other episodes!VBAC Link Supportive Provider ListEvidence-Based Birth: Evidence on Inducing LaborThe VBAC Link Blog: The ARRIVE TrialNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength. This is Meagan and you are listening to The VBAC Link Podcast. I am so happy that you are here. Normally, we have episodes that are filled with VBAC stories, CBAC stories, and guests sharing educational pieces on VBAC. However, today, I'm going to a quick episode for our first-time mamas out there. For years, we have had people write in a review saying things like, “Oh my gosh, I wish every first-time mom listened to these stories. This is not only for VBAC moms or VBAC-hopeful parents. This is for anyone who is giving birth,” or again, going back to the first-time mom, people saying, “I wish as a first-time mom I heard these stories and learned this education because I truly believe it could have helped me avoid my Cesarean.” Women of Strength, if you know someone who is expecting or if you are a first-time mama, listening on how to avoid unnecessary and undesired C-sections, listen up. This is going to be an episode specifically for you. As always, I have a Review of the Week so I'd like to dive into that but then get back into what first-time mamas and what our community wants first-time mamas to know. Today's review is from Emmalyn. I don't even know how to pronounce the last name, but Emmalyn. It says, “Uplifted and educated. I have been binging this podcast since I found it a couple of weeks ago and I'm addicted. As I prepare for my HBA2C” so for the listeners who are new, HBA2C means home birth after two Cesareans, “I have experienced so much healing and inspiration through hearing these stories after two attempts for vaginal deliveries with my first two kids. One preeclampsia hospital birth and HBAC (home birth after Cesarean) transfer to the hospital. The content they provide is diverse, thoughtful, and inclusive. There is so much stigma around home birth and VBAC and this is the first and only community plus the Facebook group I have found to truly be welcoming and nonjudgmental. I feel like this is going to be an instrumental tool to my birth prep for my baby coming this Christmas Eve.” You guys, I could not agree with her more. This is a place where we want you to know that you are safe, that you are heard, that you are understood. We in no way, shape, or form believe that there is only one way to birth. There just simply isn't. We just want you to know your options and feel empowered to make the best decisions for you along the way. So if you are one of these first-time mamas listening today, I am so excited that you are here and I do encourage you to continue going on through all of the other episodes. Women who are sharing their stories likely have had a Cesarean before and I think this is such a great opportunity for you to learn how to avoid a Cesarean by listening through others who have come before you and have given birth and have also learned along the way. I'll tell you right now that with my first baby, I was not ready to give birth. Although I felt ready, all I knew was that I was pregnant and I was going to have a baby and I could not wait. But there was so much more that I didn't know that I wish I knew. I have learned throughout the way and I'm going to be sharing some more experiences with you along with, like I said, really tips from our own community members. You guys, I reached out on Instagram and asked for tips for first-time moms and I'm going to go over some of those tips along with learning how to avoid a Cesarean and unnecessary interventions. Here we go. Okay, everybody. Welcome to the show. Thank you for joining me. If you are new to the podcast, my name is Meagan Heaton and I am a VBAC after two C-section mom and a doula who wants to help educate and empower anyone who wants to learn more about their options for birth after Cesarean as well as learning how to avoid a Cesarean from the get-go. I had a Cesarean when I was pregnant with my first. I went into labor at 39 weeks and 5 days spontaneously with PROM which is called premature rupture of membranes. What that means is my body went into labor as far as my water broke, but then nothing really followed for quite some time. Contractions didn't really get going and labor itself did not start. I, along with many first-time moms, was told that if your water breaks you go straight to the hospital. I went to the hospital and from then on out, it was induction. They wanted to induce my labor and they wanted to intervene instead of just letting my body do its thing. I started getting Pitocin and that led to an epidural. It unfortunately led to a Cesarean. Now, I want to tell you that Pitocin and an epidural do not always lead to a Cesarean but these are going to be common things that you're hearing in women's stories along this podcast that do seem to impact the end result of a Cesarean. With my second, I really wanted a VBAC, a vaginal birth after a Cesarean, and I went looking more into what it was and what my options were and what I should do. I ended up staying with my same provider who was a great guy. Do not get me wrong, but he wasn't the provider for me and I didn't learn that until after my second Cesarean. I stayed with him and I went into spontaneous labor again with premature rupture of membranes. This one took a lot longer for my body to kick in and unfortunately, I really never was allowed the time. I ended up walking down for a second repeat Cesarean with that one because I was told that my body just did not know how to do it. This is also another very common, common thing that so many Women of Strength are being told. Their body doesn't know how to do it. Their body can't progress. Their pelvis is too small. Women of Strength, if there is any pet peeve that I have, it is someone telling another person that their body is not capable of giving birth vaginally. I might sound grumpy about it. Let's be honest, I am. You are capable of giving birth vaginally. What are some of the things that I would suggest you do as you are going along as a first-time parent?Number one, I really believe that provider is key. If you have a provider who is on board with your birthing desires, that is going to help you so much during your labor and your pregnancy journey. If you have a provider who is very induction-happy, intervention-happy, and pushing you to even schedule an induction before you even reach 39 weeks or 40 weeks or 41 weeks, that's a problem. That is a red flag. Take a moment if you can. Go to thevbaclink.com/blog or just click the link in the show notes and check out how to find a supportive provider. Now, this blog that we have is how to find a provider who is supportive in VBAC, but I think all around it goes in line with any provider whether you are a VBAC or not. You want to find someone who doesn't put stipulations on when you have your baby and what happens during pregnancy meaning that if they are requesting or demanding that you do multiple growth scans in your third trimester and there is really no medical reason to indicate the reason to do that, that's a problem. If they are talking about the size of your baby early on or the size of you and how you look and, “You must be carrying a big baby. You are so petite,” there is already doubt that is being placed. As I mentioned, if they are encouraging an induction at 39 weeks or just getting it on the schedule, let me tell you right now that being pregnant at 39 weeks is not always fun. Being pregnant at 40 and 41 weeks is not fun. There is a lot that goes into it. Your hips hurt. You're tired. Your pelvis hurts. You're peeing all of the time. You can't sleep. Okay, it doesn't sound that great, right? But it really is such a great time and it's a time that we need to cherish and really just embrace but it's hard to do that. That's the fact. It's sometimes really hard to do that so when we have providers giving us an “out” to give birth sooner, it's very enticing. I don't shame anyone for taking that opportunity of being induced and picking your baby's birthday, but there are a lot of things that go into that. Now, as a first-time mom back in 2019 I want to say, a study came out and they called it the ARRIVE trial. The ARRIVE trial is where they had a whole bunch of people, and really actually not that many people, but a whole bunch of people in two groups. They had one group where they induced at 39 weeks and they didn't always have a “favorable” cervix. Favorable versus unfavorable meaning the cervix was showing signs of readiness to give birth. They had these moms in one group who were induced at 39 weeks then they had another group who chose not to be induced or to wait for spontaneous labor but would not let them go past 42 weeks. There were a lot of things that their goals were to point out and study in this trial which you can find out more about on our blog. It's in the show notes. We'll make sure that we have the ARRIVE trial link in there. But they really wanted to also see what it did for Cesarean. In the induction group, 79 out of 82 people were induced at 39 weeks. The people in the expectant management group, meaning they were waiting for spontaneous labor or didn't elect to induce at 39 weeks, 79 out of 80 waited. 44% of them gave birth spontaneously and 56% of them gave birth after induction for medical reasons. Now, medical reasons. There are a lot of things people can talk about or providers can talk about why you should be induced. So let's talk about some of the main reasons for an induction or some common reasons for an induction that you'll see but then always, I want you to know that you can question. If someone is saying there is a medical reason for you to be induced, question them. It's okay for you to question them. It is always okay to say no and question, always. No matter what it is in any medical scene, birth or not birth, you are always able to question and say no or no, thank you. What are some medical reasons? Medical reasons may be preeclampsia. Maybe you're having blood pressure issues or HELLP syndrome where now your liver is being affected. We've got high blood pressure or elevated liver enzymes and it really is best for you and baby to be born and to give birth. So preeclampsia may be one. Maybe you've got a unique health condition that is now impacting your personal health to stay pregnant. That may be a reason for induction. IUGR, intra-uterine growth restriction. Maybe your baby is no longer thriving inside the uterus and inside the womb and needs to come out so they can thrive on the outside. If IUGR is happening, that is a medical reason to consider induction. Those are just a few that you may encounter. Some other things may be low fluid– that one can be debatable for sure. It can be serious, or high fluids. There are so many situations. Just know that if you have a situation or if someone is suggesting an induction at 39 weeks or at any point due to medical reasons, discuss that with your provider. Definitely discuss and question and make sure that you are all on the same page and you are really understanding what the medical reason is for your induction. Don't fear to question the evidence saying that induction is the best route. Okay, so the people in the expectant management group like I said– 79 out of 80 waited. 44% gave birth spontaneously 56% gave birth after induction. So what did this study really show, really, really show about C-section? Well, let me tell you. They really tried to show that it lowered Cesarean rates from 19% to 22% but if you really dig into it deeper, it really doesn't say if Cesarean really is lowered or not. Between the two groups, there really were no significant difference in birth outcomes for the baby so again they showed that maybe 19% versus 22% were likely to end up in a Cesarean and then they also showed that they were less likely to develop high blood pressure– 9% versus 14%. That is a thing. We do know that blood pressure can elevate in the end, but overall, as of 2024, there really are a few studies that have been able to look at the effects of the ARRIVE trial and have concluded that the elective rate has significantly increased or decreased the Cesarean delivery. This is the problem though. It's being so heavily– and maybe heavily isn't the word– done. It's being so heavily performed all over the world now after this trial came out. For some reason, we looked at that and we're like, “Yep. See? It impacts the Cesarean rate. It lowers it.” But we are still having a really high Cesarean rate and first-time moms are still, still, still, still having Cesareans after induction is happening. Induction. Women of Strength, that is what we call the women who listen to our podcast, if you are being proposed for an induction or being offered an induction, maybe take some steps back. Do some research. Read our blog. Talk about induction methods. There are also a lot of different types of induction methods. I want to also say that coming back to your provider, if you have a supportive provider who is willing to induce very gently and understands the process of induction especially for a first-time mom whose cervix might not be favorable or ready, you may have a higher chance of giving birth vaginally. But if you are at a place where they like to push inductions really fast on you and all of the things, increase all of the interventions, you are going to likely have an increased chance of Cesarean. In 2023, the rate of C-sections in the United States was 32.4%. 32.4% which is really the highest it's been since 2013 and just astronomically gross in my opinion. Years and years and years ago, it was 10-15%. Even before that, it was 5%. We are seeing a peak. We are seeing a serious peak and what's happening is we are seeing a lot of the times first-time moms will have a C-section for whatever reason and then people are being told that they cannot have a vaginal birth after Cesarean, that the option is now gone or they won't even approach VBAC as a topic. It's just, “For the future, you will have to schedule a C-section.” Okay, now this is another one. If you are a first-time mom who has a friend who had a C-section and doesn't know their option, please share this podcast with them. This is such a great place for them to come and learn and know their options. Okay, so let's dive in. I asked our community. I mentioned that before. What do our community members want a first-time mom to know? What do they wish they would have known before as a first-time mom?One of our followers, Elizabeth, mentions, “Wait as long as it takes for baby to come and to change positions frequently.” Oh my gosh, I cannot agree more. This is what we are talking about, right? Waiting for our baby to come and not inducing unless it really is medically necessary and letting our bodies do what they are made to do and are totally capable of doing.Changing positions frequently is something I highly encourage and as a first-time mom or any mom giving birth, I highly suggest a doula. Doulas are amazing. I know they are not always affordable and I don't know if you have ever heard of this, but you can go to behervillage.com and you can actually register for a doula so instead of getting all of the million onesies and wipe warmers or a million sized-newborn diapers, you can register for a doula and people can help pay for a doula. It is absolutely amazing. I highly encourage it. Check out behervillage.com. We also have doulas at thevbaclink.com/findadoula. They are VBAC-certified doulas but these are doulas who are trained and educated and certified in helping you avoid a Cesarean so I highly suggest a doula because they can help know what positions to change to and they can help guide you. If you don't have a doula, that is okay. Change positions frequently. I mean, every 5-10 contractions, if you went from hands and knees and you want to stay on hands and knees, go hands and knees but put a pillow under and elevate that left leg or that right knee. Change things up because changing the dynamics of your pelvis is going to help bringing baby down. One of the main reasons for a Cesarean is that babies are in a wonky position or failure to progress or failure to dilate. That, a lot of the time, is because baby is not in a really great position and movement will help baby get in a better position and help your labor speed along. Okay, our friend, Emily, says, “Wait to go to the hospital.” I mentioned this earlier that I was told when my water broke to go straight to the hospital. Do your research to wait. Learn how long to wait, how long is too long, and again, that's when a doula comes into play. They are really great on helping to guide you on knowing when to go. Emily also– she has a couple of tips here. She says, “Trust your own intuition and what your body is feeling in the moment.” I could not agree more. Your intuition is huge and if you continue listening to this podcast, let me tell you that you are going to hear about intuition a million times. Intuition is huge. You have it and it's amazing. It's super important to follow. Sometimes we question our intuition and that is hard. Try not to question your intuition and again, do what your body is feeling in the moment. Emily says, “I didn't have a doula and it's my biggest regret.” Okay, so we were just talking about that. Doulas are amazing, you guys. I didn't have a doula for my first two. That was also a big regret. My husband was not on board with my second. After I learned about a doula and after having a doula, he said that there is no way we would have another baby again without a doula. They are just incredible you guys and there are actual statistics on doulas. They lower the chance of Cesarean. They lower the time of birth by 45 minutes. 45 minutes might not sound like a lot, but 45 minutes in labor is impactful. They also lower the chances of induction and interventions and they overall help you walk away with having a better experience. Okay, another follower says, “Trust your body. Don't accept interventions. Plans can change and breathe.” Love that so much. We have Sarah who says, “Ask for help even if you feel fine.” I love that. It's okay. Use your voice in labor. Use your voice during pregnancy. Use your voice during that postpartum experience. Even if you think you are feeling okay, it's okay to ask for help or if you have a question that is bobbling around in your brain, ask it. Don't be scared to ask it. Another follower says, “Be patient with yourself and your baby. Enjoy your pregnancy and push with an open lotus.” I love that so much. Oh my gosh, that just made me smile. We have a follower named Ash. She says, “Be informed so you can make decisions you are happy with under time and pressure.” Okay, this is something, Women of Strength, that we have found through many of these stories. These first-time mamas are going through labor who have not had a lot of education, me being one of them, going into birth. You guys, birth is a very big event. It is a very important day and impactful day. Sometimes things can change just like what one of our followers was saying. Plans can change and that means sometimes things can be offered to you that you don't really know about. You don't really know what is being offered to you so you feel like you have to say yes or no. You don't really know what you're making the yes statement to so being informed is so important.We have a blog at thevbaclink.com/blog that shares so much information along with this podcast and then we actually have a course for parents to learn how to avoid Cesarean and how to navigate through labor and avoid a Cesarean so if you are interested in learning how to avoid a Cesarean and learning more about what this VBAC stuff is even like, check us out at thevbaclink.com. Gracie says, “Don't let your doctor pressure you into unnecessary induction.” It goes along with the theme in the first part of the podcast. If you can tell, induction and pressure is something that a lot of first-time, even second and third, oh my gosh, many-time moms have. Ash says, “Have a clear but detailed birth plan.” I love that so much. Birth preferences are so important. As you get informed and get educated, you are going to learn what is important to you, what you want, what you don't want. We had a story not too long ago how as a first-time mom, she didn't realize how much her birth experience meant to her until she didn't have that birth experience. You guys, this is such an important day. Oh my gosh, it's just incredible and if you can be informed and you can have that clear birth plan– now, let me tell you that some of these birth plans don't go exactly as you've written them down. Go in with an open mind but know your desires and know the evidence and the information behind those desires and why they are important to you. Okay, M says, “Be open to birth preferences changing.” This is just going right along here. Okay, like we were just saying, sometimes they change and it can be really hard. I have a sweet and sour view on birth plans because birth plans are incredible. It helps our team and reminds them what we need and what's important and what we want, but sometimes if we write them down on paper and they don't go as planned, we can view them or view ourselves as having failed or like we did everything and it didn't work so it failed so what's the use in trying that again or wanting that again? I also want you to know that if you can go into it having an open mind, it can help you. It can help you a lot and knowing again that birth preferences change is so important. Okay, so we have a photographer here. Lilabqz_photography. She said, “It's not pain. It's power. Breathe and it will be all over soon.” I love that. These contractions are powerful. They are amazing. Oh my gosh. Okay, hypnobirthingnorthyorkshire says, “You are amazing. First-time mamas, you are. You are amazing.” Everybody listening to this podcast, let me tell you that you are incredible. You are such a Woman of Strength and you are capable of more than you have ever known. Okay, we have another follower who says, “Give yourself all the grace. You did a big thing. You are your baby's best mama.” Birth is amazing, you guys. It is a big thing and you are incredible for doing it. Another follower says, “Educate yourself and get a doula.” The next one also says, “Hire a doula.” You guys, hiring a doula is a common theme. Like I said, if you are not in a financial means or don't have the financial means, check out Be Her Village. It is absolutely incredible and can make it possible for you to have the support that you deserve. Rachel says a couple of things here. She says, “Just because you feel good to do all the things so soon doesn't mean you should. Find someone who will listen to your birth story without interrupting or opinions.” This is more for postpartum. I agree. Take it easy. Even for pregnancy, take it easy. Just because you feel like you can run a marathon doesn't mean you should. Rest up. Rest easy. Give back to your body. Hydrate. Fuel with good nutrition and find someone who will listen to your birth story without interrupting or opinions. You guys, opinions will come in all around even before you have your baby. I mean, here I am. I'm sharing some opinions. Just find someone who will listen and validate you. You deserve it. Okay, Lauren says, “If you don't want a C-section, listen to The VBAC Link. You'll learn so much.” Oh my gosh, Lauren, thank you so dang much for that. That is what this episode is all about, to help you learn how to avoid a Cesarean. Our friend, Jess, says, “Eat to replenish yourself from birth and pregnancy. Meal trains are great.” Oh my gosh, I can't say that enough. If you haven't set yourself up for a meal train before and you haven't had your baby yet or even if you had, they are incredible and they will help your birthing partners so much. Julie says, “Surrender. Surrender it all. Birth is incredible. You're going to feel so many sensations.” Even if you don't want to go unmedicated, you guys, you're still going to feel so many sensations that are new and somewhat shocking but also incredible. You're birthing a baby. It's just absolutely amazing.Then Rachel says, “Do your research. Be mentally prepared for either type of birth and recovery and have a postpartum plan or a birth photographer and take pics.” Okay, you guys. Such incredible information. I echo all of them. Obviously, we've also been talking about some of those topics. You are strong. You are capable. Don't let anyone doubt you. Okay? Don't let anyone doubt your ability. Keep listening to these stories. These stories are meant for you as well. They are meant to help you learn, to help empower, to help grow, and honestly, one mama at a time, we're going to see the Cesarean rate drop, you guys. We're going to see it drop. Thank you so much for joining me today. I'm absolutely honored that you are here listening to the podcast and like I said, if you want to learn more about The VBAC Link and what we have to offer along with so many free resources, you can join us at thevbaclink.com. We've got the podcast, the blog, the course, resources, and so much more.Oh, and for kicks and giggles, I want to throw out the fact that we have a supportive provider list so if you are looking for a supportive provider whether it's a VBAC or not, don't forget to check out our provider list. You can find us at thevbaclink on Instagram, click on linktree, and you'll find the supportive list there. Thank you so much and take care. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In this episode of the Healthy, Wealthy, and Smart Podcast, host Dr. Stephanie Weyrauch welcomes Kristin Revere, founder and CEO of Gold Coast Doulas. Kristin shares her journey in starting Gold Coast Doulas in 2015, initially as a solo birth doula and expanding to a team of 27 contractors, including lactation consultants, sleep consultants, and newborn care specialists. The discussion highlights the role of doulas as non-medical support persons, emphasizing their importance in providing comprehensive care for families during the birthing process and beyond. Kristin also co-authored the book "Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby," which explores the various types of doulas and their significance in an interdisciplinary team. This episode is a valuable resource for expecting parents and those interested in understanding the multifaceted support doulas offer. Time Stamps:  [00:02:03] The role of doulas explained. [00:06:48] The evolving role of doulas. [00:10:17] Support during unpredictable birth. [00:18:08] Doula support for partners. [00:20:33] Importance of doulas in healthcare. [00:25:07] Importance of hydration postpartum. [00:30:08] Emotional support during postpartum. [00:31:40] Postpartum emotional support challenges. [00:36:18] Starting a doula service. [00:44:13] Collaboration in business mindset. [00:45:46] Connecting with Gold Coast Doulas. More About Kristin Revere: Kristin Revere is a woman who has always had a passion for supporting other women, both personally and professionally. In college, Kristin served on the Executive Committee of her sorority and organized events on campus related to breast cancer and other women's issues. She later facilitated nonpartisan political trainings for female candidates and volunteered for many nonprofits focused on women's issues. Kristin firmly believes in the power that lies within a woman and has spent her life drawing it out of the women she surrounds herself with. After the birth of her daughter in 2011, a new passion awoke within her. Kristin began reading and studying birth from all perspectives, philosophies, and medical approaches. She joined organizations like the Healthy Kent Breastfeeding Coalition and used her event coordinating skills to build and promote the organization and create community awareness. Kristin's research led her to learn about doulas, and in 2012 she hired doulas herself for the support of her second birth. The level of compassionate care and comfort that she received from her doulas ignited a spark within Kristin that led her to the path of becoming a doula herself. She earned her certification and began teaching Sacred Pregnancy classes in 2013, but as you'll see Kristin is a firm believer in achieving the highest level of education available when providing a service. Shortly after, she earned the following credentials. Certified Sacred Doula in 2014 Certified Elite Labor Doula through ProDoula in 2015 Certified Elite Postpartum and Infant Care Doula through ProDoula in 2016 Trained in Spinning Babies in 2020 Newborn Care Specialist through Newborn Care Solutions Mothership Certified Health Service Provider Certified VBAC Academy Pro Certified Transformational Birth Coach through Birth Coach Method Certified Pregnancy and Infant Loss Advocate (PAIL) 2022 Certified Gift Registry Expert through Be Her Village 2023 Kristin's main passion as a birth and postpartum doula is to offer women and families resources, unbiased support, and understanding. Kristin is a listener, a friend, a confidant, an expert, and women intuitively feel stronger in her presence. She has a Bachelor of Science in Journalism from Central Michigan University and a Master of Management in Marketing from Aquinas College. Kristin is the host of Ask the Doulas Podcast. Her writing has been featured in Rapid Growth Media and First Time Parent Magazine. Kristin was selected as one of the 50 Most Influential Women in West Michigan by the Grand Rapids Business Journal in 2016 and in 2022. Kristin and the rest of the Revere Clan, which includes her husband, her step-daughter, and her two children, live in Grand Rapids and can be found taking in the sights at local art galleries, parks, music concerts, and community events. Resources from this Episode: Gold Coast Doulas Website Gold Coast Doulas on Instagram Gold Coast Doulas on YouTube Kristin on LinkedIn Ask The Doulas Podcast Supported: Your Guide to Birth and Baby Jane Sponsorship Information: Book a one-on-one demo here Mention the code LITZY1MO for a free month Follow Dr. Karen Litzy on Social Media: Karen's Twitter Karen's Instagram Karen's LinkedIn Subscribe to Healthy, Wealthy & Smart: YouTube Website Apple Podcast Spotify SoundCloud Stitcher iHeart Radio

“Control what you can control.” Brooke's birth experiences have not been without challenges. She first had an extremely difficult miscarriage during COVID followed by intense bleeding due to massive subchorionic hemorrhages during her other two pregnancies. Her first delivery was a very traumatic C-section from not being completely anesthetized. After that, Brooke committed to doing everything in her power not to have that experience ever again and to do everything she could to avoid a C-section. Along with another subchorionic hemorrhage, her third pregnancy presented another challenge when she found out her baby had a bowel obstruction and would need surgery along with a NICU stay immediately after birth. Brooke was disheartened learning that she needed a medically necessary induction, but she was still committed to doing everything she could to achieve her VBAC. Her efforts to surround herself with a powerful team paid off. Everyone around her championed her VBAC. Brooke was able to go from the most traumatic birth imaginable to the most beautiful, empowering, and healing birth she literally dreamed about. Brooke's WebsiteInformed Pregnancy - code: vbaclink424Needed Website - code: vbac20How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details 04:36 Review of the Week07:19 Brooke's first pregnancy11:18 Miscarriage15:01 Brooke's dream17:20 Second pregnancy21:26 Going into labor and getting admitted28:06 An extremely traumatic C-section32:53 Third pregnancy38:17 Bleeding again43:09 Finding a bowel obstruction in baby46:57 Switching providers the day before her scheduled induction50:57 Progressing to complete dilation54:54 Getting an epidural and pushing for three hours59:40 15 tips for birth1:04:22 Control what you can controlMeagan: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening– whatever time it is that you are listening to this episode, I hope that you are doing great. We are excited to get into another VBAC story today from our friend. Okay, so I'm trying to think. Remind me. Are you in North Carolina now or are you in New York City now?Brooke: No, I'm in North Carolina now, but the story starts in New York City. Meagan: The story starts in New York City. She's in North Carolina now. Her name is Brooke. Tell me a little bit more. You are an educator. You are helping kids read, right? Is this what I'm getting from your website? Brooke: Yes. Meagan: Okay, so tell us more about what you do. Brooke: I worked in New York City public schools for 10 years. I was a teacher, a literacy coach, and an administrator so I have experience both in the classroom and in school leadership. After we welcomed my daughter and after the pandemic, we moved to be closer to family in the Raleigh, North Carolina area and here I'm an education consultant. Meagan: Education consultant. Awesome. We will make sure to have your website linked for anyone listening. What type of people would want to go to your website? Brooke: I offer a number of services. The first thing that I do is pretty classic consulting in elementary school. I provide literacy support. My expertise is in pre-K through 3rd grade so early reading foundational skills. I help schools with their reading programs. But additionally, there's a big home school community in the Raleigh area. Meagan: I saw that on your website. Brooke: Yeah, I've had a really wonderful experience so far working with families getting set up on their homeschooling journey and supporting parents and caregivers in taking on the teacher role at home. Meagan: Awesome. Awesome. I think home school, especially since COVID has really taken off. I know a lot of people, some of my best friends in fact here in Utah even homeschool. It's a great resource. In addition to all of the amazing, great things you do, you have a VBAC story to share with us after a Cesarean that was performed pretty early, right?Brooke: Yeah, it was a pretty preterm and traumatic C-section. All VBAC stories start with a C-section so that's part of my journey. I'm so, so, so, so grateful. Thank you so much for welcoming me onto the show today. Putting this story out there, being on this podcast, and sharing my VBAC was part of my birth plan. It was on my vision board. It was a goal that I had set so I am just so, so, so grateful to have this opportunity to share that. Meagan: I'm really excited that you're going to dive in today. We talk about this a lot of the time with this podcast. Without these stories, without women of strength just like you, we wouldn't even have a podcast. I mean, probably I could get some content for sure but I think these stories are what makes this podcast. I'm so excited to dive in in just a moment. 04:36 Review of the WeekMeagan: I do have a Review of the Week. This is a review that actually was just given this year in 2024, the current year that we are recording. It's from a Bailee Atkins. She actually emailed us in a review. If you guys didn't know, you can email in us a review. It makes our hearts smile so big when we open up our email in the morning and we get these amazing reviews letting us know that everything that we are doing right here is helping, is inspiring, and encouraging, and educating.This says, “I just want to start off by saying I am OBSESSED with this podcast. I'm a labor and delivery nurse of four years, currently 29 weeks pregnant with my second baby. I'm praying for a redemptive VBAC this April. I absolutely love this resource for evidence-based information. Being that I am at the bedside as a nurse, I have plenty of knowledge. However, I don't have the experience of home birth or a birth center birth, so it's great to get all of the insight. I can't escape negative birth situations and stories as a pregnant nurse so this podcast is often my escape and positive note for the day. I've been listening since 2022 and couldn't feel more empowered for this VBAC. It is my dream to be on the podcast one day, so be on the lookout.” Okay, I love that. This is being aired probably after her due date. I mean, I don't know when her due date was, sometime in April, but we are now in May, so Bailee Atkins, if you are still listening, if you haven't already, email us and let us know how it goes and we would love to have you on the podcast. 07:19 Brooke's first pregnancyMeagan: Okay, cute Brooke. I am so excited to hear your stories. You also have a miscarriage story, too. Is that where this all began? Brooke: This is where it all began. I'm glad you brought it up because I did want to just say at first that my story– I just want to put a note out there to any listeners who are kind of sensitive. My story does include loss and a lot of medical trauma so I just want to put that on the listeners' radar. Meagan: Yeah. I think that's important. I know some people don't feel like they need any trigger warnings, but when you've gone through loss or medical trauma or things like that and it hasn't completely been worked through or processed or anything like that, and even if it has, it can be really triggering so we just wanted to make sure to mention that. It also is your story and I think that's also really important to share. Brooke: Yeah, so thank you for that. It was actually four years ago this week at the time of this recording. This is a really lovely way to kind of just close that chapter. It just is all working out beautifully.I'll set the scene. It's December of 2019. The world is still turning. Things are great. I'm at a New Year's party in Brooklyn. I'm just thriving. I had just come back from a great backpacking trip with my husband for the summer across Asia. Life was– we were on a high. Meagan: Wow, super exciting things happening. Brooke: Yeah. It was great. It was a great time. We call it the great grand finale. We are at this New Year's party in Brooklyn and I go to pour myself some champagne and I think, “Maybe I shouldn't. I think I could be pregnant.” I'm like, “No, no, no. Whatever.” Anyway, I take it easy. We go home early. A couple of weeks later, I'm so ill. I am so sick. I have the worst cough and cold situation I've ever had in my life. My boss at the school was like, “You need to go to the doctor. This has been too long.” I go to the doctor and I'm at urgent care. It's a Saturday morning and they're like, “Oh, we need to do some x-rays. We think you might have pneumonia. Is there any chance you might be pregnant?” I was like, “Oh my gosh, yeah. I didn't drink at that New Year's party. That was two weeks ago. I can't take this x-ray.” I go to the store. I pick up a pregnancy test. I go home. I take it. It's positive. I'm over the moon. This is the happiest moment of my life up to this point. My husband gets home. We are jumping up and down. We are so excited. Everything is smooth sailing. Everything is great. I immediately start getting sick and I'm breaking out. I just feel awful. I was complaining. As this pregnancy is progressing, the world is really starting to get a little bit of that pre-COVID hysteria. It's just starting. Meagan: Yeah. Especially in New York. Brooke: Yeah, right? I'm in New York City at this time. I go to the doctor. My husband is still allowed to come with me and things like that. This is the time before. We see the baby. Everything is normal. We go back again. We see the baby. Everything is normal. My doctor offered the NIPT genetic testing and I was like, “Yeah, let's do it.” We took the blood sample. I think I was about 10 weeks at that point. We got the results 7-10 days later in that window and it was inconclusive. The doctor was like, “It says there's not enough fetal DNA. We might have just taken it too early. This happens sometimes. Nothing to worry about.” I was like, “Okay, nothing to worry about.” 11:18 MiscarriageBrooke: It was maybe week 11 and I had miraculously felt better. I was like, “Phew. I don't have any more symptoms.” I'm there at the end of the first trimester and everything is fine. I go in. It was March 9th. It was a Monday. I had my nuchal translucency 12-week scan then and I was going to be 13 weeks the following day on Tuesday. It's Monday. I wake up. I'm getting ready for work and I start bleeding. It's just spotting. I call my doctor. She's like, “Spotting can be normal. I wouldn't stress about it just yet. You have an appointment later today.” I was like, “Okay.” I tried not to worry about it, but as the day went on, the bleeding got really bad. Really bad. I got in a cab and I called my husband who was at his last day of work at the job he was at. I was like, “You need to leave right now and meet me at the doctor's appointment. I know it's not until 3:00 but I'm going now.” It was around 1:00. I showed up at the hospital early and went in for my scan. I was like, “I'm bleeding. I can't wait 3 hours. Can you just take me now?” I was so shaken. Meagan: Yeah, that's a lot. Brooke: I was so scared. This is March 9th. People are masked. Everybody is a little bit scared of the hospitals because in New York, things had been happening at this point but nothing was closed down yet. I went into the room. A doctor I had never seen before because this was my first MFM visit does the scan and she comes in. She's like, “The baby isn't growing.” My husband is there with me and he's immediately crying. I'm just not computing. I'm like, “Okay, so does that mean he's going to have delays? What does this mean?”She's like, “No, there's no heartbeat.” I was like, “Okay, so what can we do about that?” I was just not understanding what she was very delicately trying to explain to me. I was like, “What do you mean he's not going to grow anymore? What does that mean? Is he going to have defects?” She was like, “No. The baby stopped growing 3 weeks ago somewhere between 9 and 10 weeks. You are 13 weeks now. We need to do a D&C.”It was like I was in a whirlpool. I had no idea what was going on. I just became a complete zombie. I just moved through the next two days just absolutely devastated like catatonic. It was the worst grief I had ever known. It was just so surprising. She was like, “You had a missed miscarriage” which I had never heard of to that point. I was like, “What does that mean?” Meagan: What does missed miscarriage actually mean? Brooke: Another term for it is a silent miscarriage. It is when the baby's heart stops when you have a miscarriage, but your body continues to grow. Your body grows. You still have symptoms. Your body doesn't recognize that the baby is not growing anymore and isn't viable anymore and doesn't properly miscarry. It was several weeks later before I started to bleed. It was that day. I didn't know. In retrospect, it's like that's why the NIPT came back the way it did. That's why my symptoms stopped. Those things on their own, in my first pregnancy, I didn't understand. 15:01 Brooke's dreamBrooke: On the 11th, we had the D&C that Wednesday and on Friday, March 13th, New York City shut down. I came out of this procedure just so sad and then was basically locked in my house for a year. My husband and I were grieving in total isolation. It was just a really tough time. Typically, after a procedure like that, you would go in for a follow-up appointment several weeks later and the doctor would make sure everything was okay. But because it was only emergencies in the hospitals at that time, my doctor just emailed. She was like, “Let me know if you have these symptoms and then I'll see you, but otherwise it's safer for you not to come in and you can get pregnant now.” In retrospect, I think she meant you can, not necessarily that you should but I was like, “Okay. I can get pregnant again.” This is maybe a little too much for some people, but I was crying myself to sleep just so, so, so sad and I was like, “I want my baby. I just need to know that it's going to be okay.” I went to sleep and I had the strangest dream that I watched myself through a snowy window of a nurse handing me a baby girl in a pink blanket and then I didn't see her, myself in the hospital bed didn't see her, but through the window, I watched the nurse also take a baby boy and lay him next to me. He was asleep. Meagan: That just gave me the chills. Brooke: Yeah, I'm happy. I'm holding a baby girl. I woke up and I just felt okay. Two weeks later, I found out I was pregnant again. The whole time, I was like, “It's a girl. It's a girl. It's obviously a girl,” and it was. I just knew right from the outset that I was having a baby girl. 17:20 Second pregnancyBrooke: I tested positive at 4 weeks. At 5 weeks, I started bleeding and this time, I was angry. I was like, “What is wrong? Why am I miscarrying again?” I go to the doctor and my OB who is amazing, my New York City OB took such incredible care of me. She is just really an all-star doctor. She was like, “I don't know why you are bleeding so much, but the baby is fine. They are still in there.” I went back a week later. The bleeding never stopped. When I say bleeding, I mean I'm passing clots the size of golf balls. Meagan: Whoa. Brooke: At 7 weeks, I went in. At this point, my OB was like, “I don't know what's going on. I don't understand why you are bleeding so much, but the baby seems fine.” Meagan: There's no placental tear? Brooke: No. Meagan: Subchorionic? Nothing? Brooke: At this point, they didn't know what it was. They did find out. I got on the table and I was like, “I'm really bleeding a lot.” She was like, “Okay.” She put me on the table and she was like, “Oh my goodness. It literally looks like you've been shot. There's so much blood just everywhere.” I mean, I'm not a doctor obviously, but I was like, I don't know how I can go on with this much blood loss. It was really extreme. Then the psychological impact of all of that bleeding when I've just had loss. The world's not turning. I'm locked in my house other than going to the hospital. There are field hospitals everywhere. I can see them from the window. It is really just apocalyptic. We go through the next several weeks. I go to the MFM. They diagnose a very, very large subchorionic hemorrhage. It was three times the size of my daughter. They were like, “We don't know if she's going to be able to sustain this much blood loss and there's really nothing we can do to stop it.” They were like, “There's not a lot of research on this kind of thing. We don't know how it's going to go. We'll just keep seeing you once or twice a week, making sure you're not losing too much blood and make sure the baby is still okay.” The whole pregnancy, she was totally fine. I bled and I bled and I bled. I was on total bed rest because any walking I did at all just aggravated it and caused more bleeding. I was so scared of that. I was really, totally isolated. It was very tough emotionally and physically, but my doctor took excellent care of me, helped me find mental health resources, and helped me to get a prenatal nutritionist just to really give me well-rounded care throughout the pregnancy. Brooke: By 24 weeks, it went away. Prayers were answered and the hemorrhage went away. Meagan: Halfway through the pregnancy. Brooke: Yep, by 24 weeks, it was gone. I didn't have any new bleeding although I was still bleeding, but it wasn't the full hemorrhage bleeding that I had been experiencing up until that point.I took it easy until 36 weeks when I was like, “I need to start walking and moving. I've been in bed this whole pregnancy. I know that's not good.” I'm usually a very active person, so I was a little anxious about that. Around 36 weeks, we started taking the daily hot chocolate walk. We would walk to a different spot and we would get a hot chocolate. It's winter time now. It's December. It's Christmas. We were just relaxing and then on January 15th, it was snowing in New York City. I was 38 weeks and 6 days and I went into labor. 21:26 Going into labor and getting admittedBrooke: I woke up at 3:00 in the morning and I was like, “I'm in labor.” I was so excited. It was happening. I labored at home for 14 hours and then we went into the hospital. The traffic was so bad from the snow that I ended up walking down 5th Avenue for 10 blocks because we were in gridlock. I was like, “I'm in labor!” I was nowhere near ready to go to the hospital but I didn't know. I went to the hospital way too early. Classic C-section red flag right there, but I didn't know. I got there and my doctor happened to be on call. I was so excited because she was just incredible. We had such a good relationship after the care she had given me throughout both of these pregnancies and I was just so excited. But then she left. She had me in triage. I was only 2 centimeters. She was like, “I think you should go home.” Meagan: You're like, “I just walked blocks to get here.” Brooke: I was like, “I can't.”She was like, “It's probably going to be another 12 hours until you really need to be here.” I was like, “I can't come back at 3:00 in the morning tomorrow.” I was so anxious. My anxiety from what I had been through, I was like, “There's no way I'm going home.” She was like, “I'll push it. We'll admit you now.” She was catering to my emotional and mental needs to have this baby monitored. I was so scared. Brooke: I get admitted. By the time I get upstairs, my poor husband is not admitted at this point. He's outside in the snow just walking around Central Park. Not until I'm in my room is he allowed to join me because he had to be tested for COVID and all of that. This is January 2021. Now, mind you, two days before that, I think the 14th was one of the worst days of COVID that we'd had up to that point in New York City. That is what everybody is focused on in the medical world. They're not like, “This routine birth. This girl is in labor. She's 39 weeks tomorrow.” Nobody's stressed. I get the epidural. By that time, I'm 5 centimeters. Two hours later, my water broke. I was at 8 centimeters. It's 7:00 PM. I'm 8 centimeters. I'm like, “This is happening.” Everything is smooth. I go to sleep. I keep telling everybody that the epidural is not working. I can feel the epidural on the right side of my body. The nurses moved me around, trying to get the medicine to other places, they had me just lying this way, laying that way, but I got up. Never walked around. Didn't get in any other position other than my back or my side. I went to sleep. I woke up in the morning and was still 8 centimeters. I had stalled out and now, everybody is starting to worry. The doctor who was on call, my doctor, who left after I was in triage, was someone I had never met. I have lots of friends who she delivered their babies and they had great experiences with her, so I'm sure she is absolutely wonderful, but I didn't know her and I felt really unsafe. She seemed very busy every time she came in and I was very anxious at this point. I was like, “I thought I was going to have this baby yesterday. What is going on?” My angel of a nurse just was so reassuring that whole time, but I kept telling her, “I don't think this epidural is working.” She was like, “Well, this is the max that you can have. Let's give you more Pitocin to get those contractions to kick in so we can get you all the way.” More epidural, more Pitocin. More epidural, more Pitocin. The cascade of interventions. This is all for a labor that I went into spontaneously. It's 39 weeks now. I'm full-term. My nurse goes on lunch break. It's now Saturday the 16th. My nurse went on lunch break and another nurse came in, someone I didn't know which is a theme throughout my whole VBAC journey. I really liked to know my provider. Meagan: That's an important thing, by the way, to know. It doesn't happen as much anymore, but to know who is going to be with you is very common to want that. It was for me. Brooke: It was not something that I thought I would care about, but at the moment, it was something I really needed. So this nurse I didn't know came in and took my temperature and was like, “Oh no. You have a fever. This is bad. I'm going to get the doctor. She's going to operate.” I was like, “What are you talking about I have a fever. What?” The OB comes in. She's washing her hands. She's putting on the fresh gloves. She's doing it. She just came out of C-section. She was like, “You have a fever? You've been at 8 centimeters for how long? All right. We're going to the OR.” I just immediately start hysterically crying. I was terrified. My nurse is back and she was like, “It's okay. Look. Your baby is perfect. She's not in distress. Everything is okay. It's just taking too long. You have this fever. We don't want the baby to get sick. This is the best thing.” The OB was like, “Why are you crying? Everything is fine.” Meagan: Oh my gosh. Brooke: My husband was like, “You know, she's been through a lot with the loss and the hemorrhage. We are scared.” The doctor was like, “What hemorrhage? What are you talking about? This wasn't your first pregnancy?” I felt in that moment like she didn't know me like she didn't know my case and I felt really unsafe. She's a great doctor and she knew what she was doing, but I felt nothing. Meagan: She wasn't really talking to you. She was telling you what you were going to do, not talking. Brooke: Exactly. In retrospect, I can appreciate that they are in the middle of a pandemic and it was truly unprecedented. I understand now where she was, but it was not good for me. 28:06 An extremely traumatic C-sectionBrooke: I go back into the OR and I'm sure all of the listeners are familiar with this moment where you are being prepped for surgery and it's really overwhelming. I was like, “Oh my gosh. I hope my husband is not in here right now.” I couldn't see. You're just staring up at the lights. I was like, “I hope he's not in here right now seeing this.” They bring him in and I'm prepped for surgery and they are testing where they are about to perform this surgery. I was like, “That really hurts.” They were like, “No, no, no. It's just pressure.” I was like, “No, it's pressure on the left side of my body, but it's pain on the right. I am telling you as I have been telling you since I was 5 centimeters yesterday, that the epidural is not reaching the right half of my body.” They were like, “Okay. Here is some pain medication through your IV, but we've got to do what we've got to do.” Meagan: Oh my gosh. Brooke: I think it was extremely traumatic for my husband also because I was screaming through my whole C-section. I was in extreme agony. I'll liken it to when you watch a Civil War movie and you're watching an amputee. I was being operated on and was not fully anesthetized. It was the worst thing I have ever experienced or could really imagine physically. It was excruciating. My daughter was born and they said, “The baby is out.” That was maybe the longest moment of my life because she didn't cry. The first thing I ever said. The first words my daughter ever heard me say were, “Is she alive?” I was like, the baby is out but she's not crying. They were like, “Yeah.” She cried. They did the suction and she cried. 100% healthy, perfect APGAR scores, everything was fine, but all the while, I'm just screaming. After they checked her, they handed her to my husband and they made him leave. He was down the hall taking the baby to where I would ultimately meet them in postpartum, but he could hear me screaming all the way down. Meagan: Oh, so traumatic for both of you. Brooke: Yeah, it was horrible, to say the least. I hate saying that because it was my daughter's birth and so amazing for so many other reasons, but my experience was bad. Bad. I was thankfully able to nurse her really well and hold her and everything from then on was just totally smooth sailing. She was perfectly healthy, but I knew immediately that I never wanted to have another C-section. Brooke: The next morning, they were doing their rounds in recovery, and the anesthesiologist who was there, not my anesthesiologist, someone I hadn't seen before. My husband and I were like, “Will this happen again? If I were to have another baby, would this happen again? What's wrong with me?” He was like, “Well, I'm not sure, but you probably have a window in your spine and yeah, this would happen with any epidural so I wouldn't recommend it in the future. We'd have to go a different anesthesia route for a different C-section or you would have to give birth unmedicated.” That was the story in my head moving forward. After that, I was like, “I'm not having another C-section,” so in my head, it was like, “I'm going to have an unmedicated VBAC in the future.” That was day one. To process all of that trauma, I started listening to VBAC podcasts. I just was listening to VBAC stories because that was really the only place where I was hearing C-section stories. I had so many friends who had C-sections before me and I didn't understand how horrible that recovery can be for some people. Mind you, lots of my friends had great C-section experiences, but I did not and it really took a lot of work to process that. At my postpartum visit, I was back with my doctor and she was like, “You know if you do decide to get pregnant again, we will do an anesthesia consult and really explore that and make sure that that never happens to you again.” Life goes on. I'm raising my daughter. We're in New York. We decide to move to North Carolina to be with family and to try again for another baby. We're in our new house and I don't really know anybody here beyond some family. 32:53 Third pregnancyBrooke: I found out that I'm expecting again and we are so excited, but there is obviously a lot of anxiety after everything that I went through. I was like, “This time around, I need a doula.” I was like, “We're in a different time. It's not New York at the height of a pandemic. I need a team. I know now after 2 years of listening to VBAC stories what I need to do. I'm going to control every single thing I can control so that this will go how I want it to go.” I made a vision board about it. I looked at it on my desk all the time. I was like, “These are the things I need to be doing every day to hit this goal.” Sharing my successful VBAC on a podcast was on that, so I am really excited to be able to do this today. Brooke: The first thing that I did was hire a doula, but I didn't know any doulas and I knew that I wanted one who would really support a VBAC that had experience with the emotional elements of it. I interviewed several doulas with that in mind, but what I did that I would definitely urge listeners to do if they don't have a supportive provider is I asked every doula that I interviewed if they knew of or could recommend or had worked with in the past any VBAC-supportive OBs. I knew for me and my anxiety given the complications that I had with the hemorrhage and the loss that I wasn't going to go the midwife/birth center route. I knew that I would want an obstetrician. I was looking for a hospital provider that would be VBAC-supportive. Every doula I interviewed recommended the same practice and the same hospital. I was like, “That's where I need to go because if all of the doulas are recommending this practice, that's where I need to try and get in.” I was relieved to find out that they delivered at WakeMed Raleigh and I say that because it's important to note that it is one of the lowest C-section rates in the country, that hospital. That alone was really reassuring to me because I was like, “They are not going to do it just because it's taking too long.” It's really going to be based on that medical evidence. If I need to have one medically, then that's what we have to do, but I wanted to make sure that it wasn't the result of interventions or stalling. I don't know if I had done things differently if my C-section would have or wouldn't have happened, but I know that I didn't set myself up for success. This time around, I was really determined to do it. I got a doula. I got a supportive provider. Through my doula, I did childbirth education classes. They recommended Spinning Babies and yoga. I did that. They recommended a Webster-certified chiropractor and I did that. All things really stemmed from my doula and the doula group that she was with. I cannot recommend that enough. I know getting a doula can sometimes be cost-prohibitive, but there are so many doulas on Instagram that share a lot of this information on social media that just following those recommendations, I tried it all. I really did. I drank the tea. I ate the dates, but early in this pregnancy, I hadn't even hired a doula yet. 38:17 Bleeding againBrooke: 6 weeks, I started bleeding again. I was like, “You've got to be kidding me.” I wasn't as scared because I had just been through my daughter's pregnancy and I was like, “This just must be the way that I am.” So I go and I get an appointment with this practice because I knew right away that that was where I wanted to go. They took me even though I was a new patient. They took me right away even though I was 6 weeks because I was bleeding. I don't think all practices bend the rules that much. Their policy is, “Oh, don't come in until 9 weeks,” but they took me. I really appreciated that. I loved the staff. They were like, “Yeah, we don't know why you are bleeding.” I said, “Well, I do. I'm telling you right now that it's a subchorionic hemorrhage.” They were like, “We don't say anything.” I was like, “You will.” Pregnancy was pretty routine after that. The bleeding stopped. I didn't worry too much and then I took my daughter to a museum at 12 weeks, 5 days which if you recall is just about to the day and the time of my loss. It was 12 weeks and 6 weeks when I started bleeding. I had a huge bleed. I mean, bad. I was like, “How could it be that I am miscarrying on the same day?” I was like, “This is crazy.” We went to the ER because it was nighttime and I was like, “I just have to know if there is a heartbeat.” The ER checked and it was incredible too because I could feel that the doctors were nervous for me and then I felt their relief telling me that there was a heartbeat. They were like, “We don't often get to give good news in the ER and we are just so happy to tell you that your baby is fine and you have a subchorionic hemorrhage.” I was like, “Knew it.” I continued to bleed for a few days. They were like, “Do you want to do bloodwork and see if there's anything else?” I was like, “No. That's what's happening. I don't need to stay for bloodwork. This is what it is. I've just got to ride it out and take it easy,” which is tough with a toddler, but I did my best. The bleeding stopped and everything was fine. The rest of my pregnancy was great. I had that second-trimester glow and it's sunny North Carolina. I'm with my family. I've made some friends. Things are going smoothly. Then at my 24-week appointment, I said to one of the OBs there that I was feeling pretty anxious. I was like, “I'm a little bit nervous just because I did hemorrhage this pregnancy. I hemorrhaged all last pregnancy. I don't feel okay with this being my last ultrasound until delivery. Can we just put  a growth scan on the chart?”She was like, “Of course. You need to feel comfortable.” I appreciated that. She didn't have a medical reason to do it, but she was like, “You're right. You've been high risk. Let's go ahead.” At 30 weeks, it was the night before my appointment and I had the strangest dream. I had a dream that I had the most amazing birth. My doula was there. I was standing up. I pulled my son from my own body. It was this redemptive, joyous dream. I felt this happiness. Then all of a sudden, it went dark and everything was dark. I was walking around an auditorium, a dimly lit auditorium with a bunch of empty bassinets. I was looking for my baby. I wasn't scared, but I was a little bit nervous walking around there, then all of a sudden, the nurse handed him to me and they were like, “Here he is.” I was like, “Where has he been all this time?” She was like, “Oh, he's been with us, but he's fine. You can go home.” I was like, “Okay.” Then I woke up. I went on with my day and I was like, “That was a weird dream.”I went to my 30-week scan and mind you, I had been put on there because of my advocating for myself. I looked at the ultrasound. It was just me and the tech in the room and I said, “What the F is that?” I had seen through weekly ultrasounds my entire pregnancy with my daughter. I'm not a tech, but I have a lot of experience as a mom looking at ultrasounds and I was like, “This is not normal.” His belly looked like sausage links. It was like nothing I'd ever seen before and the tech was like, “I need to go get the doctor.” 43:09 Finding a bowel obstruction in babyBrooke: She brought in another doctor at the practice. This is a big practice with lots of different OBs, all of whom were wonderful. This doctor who this was my first time meeting was just so sweet as she told me that my baby had a bowel obstruction and that he would need to have surgery and stay in the NICU for a while when he was born and that it was really likely that I was going to have to deliver him prematurely.I immediately became hysterical. She was so sweet. She asked if she could hug me. I was like, “Please.” It was just the most incredible practice of doctors. I felt just really supported by them. She sent me to the MFM where I had to get an ultrasound at least once a week. They did the antenatal screening there to check his intestines every few days because they wanted to make sure that they were balancing the risk of letting me go as close to term as possible while not risking his intestines bursting basically. Meagan: Right. Brooke: This was very scary again so I was like, “Oh my gosh. What is going on with me?” I go through with the rest of the pregnancy. I did have polyhydramnios because he is not passing fluid as he's supposed to be. It's all getting stuck where this obstruction is. But because it's a picture of a belly inside a belly and your intestines are so long, you can't see through ultrasound where the block is. There were five causes that they were going through. They weren't sure where this block was or if it was part of a larger disease or if this would cause lifelong issues. There were so many questions, but I just was like, “Listen. I had a dream with my daughter that I would have a baby girl in the snow and I did. I just have to trust that this baby is going to be fine too and I'm going to take it home too.” I'm going to have that VBAC and at every single appointment, once or twice a week, I ask, “Does this impact my ability to have a VBAC?” He was like, “No. It has nothing to do with pregnancy and delivery. That's going to be what it is. You make those choices based on your history. It's just that when the baby is born, you will have to have a huge team out there. The NICU team has to be there. Pediatric surgery needs to be there. You're going to have to give birth with 15-20 people in the room.” I was like, “There goes my unmedicated, serene vision with no epidural, no medical intervention, beautiful hospital birth in a dimly lit room with the candles. No.” All that planning is out the window. It's gone. I can't have that experience. So I'm like, “I have to control what I can control. The MFM is saying I can still do it. I'm still going for it.” So then at just before 37 weeks, they were like, “Okay, it's time. We need to get him out and get this surgery underway.” They were like, “He's doing well. You're doing well. Let's have an induction.” For a VBAC, being induced, I was like, “Oh no. This feels just like a death sentence to my VBAC plans, but this is what we have to do.” 46:57 Switching providers the day before her scheduled inductionBrooke: I'm meeting with one of the OBs and it's the day before my scheduled induction. This is on Monday. I like this OB a lot. We've worked together in the past. She's been great and supportive, nothing bad to say about her. But we were talking about my induction which was going to take place and I asked her a question about Pitocin. I just asked a question because I didn't know. Her response was along the lines of, “With all due respect, you need to let the nurses do their job. You're not trained in Pitocin and you need to let them do that.” Right then, I was like, “Mm-mm.” Medically, she's right. Would she have delivered my baby safely? Almost certainly, but I knew right then that was not the energy that I needed in the room. I felt immediately like I shouldn't have asked the question and I was like, “I can't feel like that this time.” I didn't ask any questions at my daughter's birth. I just went along with it. I was blind and this time, I need to be with a provider that I feel like I can ask anything and that I will get an answer. So I emailed the MFM and said, “Do you think it's safe if I push the induction a few days? I'm not comfortable with the plans we have right now. I want to give my baby and my body a few more days. What's the last possible day I can push this to?” He was like, “I'll let you go 72 more hours, but I really think we've got to get this moving.” I messaged the doctor I felt the most comfortable with in the practice and I was like, “Listen. I really want to have my baby with you. I just feel the most comfortable with you. You had mentioned you were going to be on-call that day.” I didn't do it because I wanted to do it sooner so I had scheduled it with a different doctor, but he was like, “Let me see what I can do. I have a full load that day, but let me call the hospital and see what I can do.” He called me back and he was like, “I pulled some strings and I got you in. I'm going to deliver your baby. We're going to do this induction. You're going to have your VBAC. I don't want you to stress at all. We're going to have your VBAC. Your baby is going to go to the NICU. He's going to be fine. You're going to come home happy.”I was like, “This is what I need.” I just felt like, “Ahh.” I was like, “Do you think it's safe to be induced? Is it safe for a VBAC?” He was like, “It is totally safe and I will let you know the moment things become unsafe and we will change the plan. But right now, this plan is safe and I will let you know when I don't think it is safe anymore and we need to do something different.” I was like, “Okay.” I went in for my induction and it all moved really fast from there. I had a Foley induction on the night before. I went in on Tuesday night and they gave me a Foley, but all that prep work paid off. I was already 2 centimeters dilated when I showed up at the hospital at 37 weeks for my induction. I was like, “Yes.” That baby was in a great position. I was in shape. I had done that Spinning Babies yoga. It was paying off. I had drank the red raspberry leaf tea. I ate the six dates a day and I will never eat one again.I was like, “Yes.” They put the Foley in. It fell out around 8:00 AM the following morning so this is on Wednesday now. Wednesday, September 27th. At 8:00 AM, they started Pitocin. By 10:00 AM, I was in back labor. It was mild. It was manageable. I was not stressed at all. My nurse was amazing and she helped me get into a lot of different positions. We got baby to move and back labor subsided. That made all the difference. 50:57 Progressing to complete dilationBrooke: By noon, just a few hours later, I was 100% effaced and I was 5 centimeters. I really wasn't feeling anything. I was totally fine. I was able to sleep and I was already 5 centimeters on Pitocin so I was feeling good. I was like, “Oh, I can do this. I do not need an epidural. This is happening.” My doctor came in and he was like, “I want to break your water. You have a bulging bag. Let's break this.” I was like, “Okay,” because I fully trusted him. He was so respectful of my birth plan. I had put on there that I wanted limited cervical checks because in my previous labor, I got the chorio infection and I was like, “I want to limit cervical checks because I don't want to have that infection again that caused my first C-section.” He was like, “I'm not going to check you unless I feel like we really need to and we can talk about it.” He was just so respectful of my wishes and how I wanted my birth to go. He was barely there. My contractions weren't intense, so at 2:00 PM, my nurse upped my Pitocin to a 10. I'm not really sure what that means as the other OB pointed out. I'm not trained in Pitocin. Meagan: It's starting to get into the higher does. Usually at 20 is when OBs will cap it off or try to get MFM involved to get more clearance or do an IUPC and stuff like that. 10 is low but still getting there and getting higher. Brooke: Okay. Okay. She put it to 10 and said, “It's time to get things going. I was just still coping fine and I was starting to get a little bit worried that I wasn't going to get past 8 centimeters because so far, it had been similar to my previous labor. It was taking a while, but I was feeling fine. I texted my doula. This was 2:00 PM. I texted my doula and she was like, “Go get on the toilet. Sit backward. I call it the dilation station. Just go sit there for a little while and I'll check back in with you at 3:00.” But at 2:10, so 10 minutes of doing that, I texted her that I was at 8 centimeters and I was in so much pain. I was like, “You need to come in right now.” 10 minutes. I was so sick. I thought I was going to throw up. I was screaming. I was not prepared for how bad this was going to hurt. I was not expecting that. It came out of nowhere. She got there at 2:35. I was pacing up and down the room yelling and I was screaming that I really wanted the epidural. My nurse gave me IV pain meds and I kept telling her I would get relief during the contractions but the contractions themselves really hurt. My doula was there applying counterpressure, helping to move me into different positions and she and my nurse were working together to get me from just one contraction at a time. One contraction at a time. I mean, I was just in labor land. I could not see beyond the moment that I was in. I was begging for an epidural. My husband didn't say anything because he was really supportive of just supporting my wishes, but I was like, “I really want an epidural.” My goal going into the birth was to have a good experience and not necessarily to have an unmedicated birth because the unmedicated part was because I was afraid that the epidural wouldn't work again. That's why I didn't want the epidural. It wasn't because I wanted the unmedicated birth. It just felt like that was my best option. 54:54 Getting an epidural and pushing for three hoursBrooke: I'm hysterical and I'm like, “I want the epidural. This is not a good experience. This is not on my birth plan.” My doula was like, “I think you're right.” My nurse checked me. She was like, “You're complete. You're complete. You can just push.” I was like, “I am not pushing without an epidural! This is not what I want!”An angel of an anesthesiologist came in and gave me that epidural. I was complete and I got that epidural and let me tell you, there is nothing wrong with me. There is nothing wrong with my spine. That was the most incredible relief that I have ever felt. I know now it was the right decision. My husband was so against it because he was so scared that I was just giving up and throwing in the towel at the final mile. But he didn't say anything at the time. The anesthesiologist was amazing. He kept coming in to check on me, making sure I was doing okay. That was around 3:30 that I got the epidural. I stayed on my hands and knees. My doula was giving me peppermint essential oil to help me cope with the nausea. She kept checking on me and I felt that relief around 4:15, then it was calm and joyous. I knew instantly that I had made the best choice for me. The nurse kept trying to get me to do practice pushes and my doula was like, “You don't really have to do that.” I was like, “I don't have to practice doing anything. My body is just pushing.” It was involuntary. It was just happening. I pushed for 3 hours. Yeah, 3 hours of pushing. Meagan: All right. All right. That's some time.Brooke: It was a long time. I started pushing around 4:15-4:30 and my baby was born at 7:28 PM. I had no tearing and it was exactly like my dream. His head was out and my doctor was like, “Reach down, Brooke. You can do it.” I reached down and pulled him from his shoulders up onto my chest and I got that completion of that circular motion. Pushing the baby out, completing the circle with putting him on my chest. He was crying and looking up at me. I had that skin-to-skin moment. Mind you, this is happening with 15-20 people in the room. The team rushed over. They took him. They checked him. They laid him back on my chest and they left. They were like, “He's perfect. We're good. We'll see you in an hour.” Meagan: Oh my gosh. Yay. Brooke: Yeah. Yeah. So I got to hold him on my chest and have that golden hour. It was just me, my husband, and my doula. It was the most incredible, healing moment of my life. I was pushing him out and I was like, “I could do this again! This is amazing!” It was just– at one point in pushing, I even asked my OB. I was like, “Oh my gosh. This is taking so long. Do I need to have a C-section?” My doctor was like, “Brooke, I'm touching his head. No. You're having a VBAC. It's here. It's done. You did it. This is it.” I was like, “Oh my god.” The baby was never in distress. He did great the whole time. They didn't feel any need to rush it because medically, he was monitored the whole time. I was monitored. We were both doing great. It just took a while. It was absolutely perfect and then they took him back to the NICU after that hour and he ultimately did need to have bowel surgery and stayed there for almost 6 weeks, but I'm happy to report that he is a 100% normal almost 6-month-old baby now and just absolutely perfect. It was the healing VBAC that I had pursued and I am just over the moon about it. It will remain one of the best experiences of my whole life in spite of all of those challenges that I had with another hemorrhage, an induction, and my baby with this obscure birth defect. Having that VBAC and that VBAC success really just completely changed my outlook on the whole situation. I could drive to and from the hospital to see him. I got to hold him for that hour. It was an amazing, amazing, amazing experience. 59:40 15 tips for birthMeagan: I am so happy for you and I'm so happy that you felt you were able to advocate for yourself. It is definitely something hard to do. It would be hard to email and be like, “Actually, I'm not going to go with this provider” or even say, “Yeah, okay. Great. I'm 10 centimeters, but this is not the experience that I'm wanting anymore and I'm going to do this.” I think that is something also they tell people a lot. You can't get an epidural after a certain number of centimeters. That's not necessarily true. Sometimes it can be heavy and harder to push, but a lot of the time, it is what a mom needs to push. You had 3 more hours. You knew what you needed. That was the most perfect decision that you could have made for you. Brooke: Exactly. Exactly. Meagan: You had that amazing full-circle moment of bringing your son up, feeling him, and holy cow, intuitive. Your dreams are on point. I'm just so, so happy for you and I do want to talk a little bit. There is something that you said a couple of times that stood out to me and it's something that I feel like I just in life in general, not even just in pregnancy and everything that I stick to. You can only control what you can control. That, in birth, is hard so what you did is what you could control. I want to give some of those tips. I've got 15 tips and I'm looking down here and I'm like, yeah. You did a lot of them. Learn the facts. Learn what the evidence says. A lot of providers are on the opposite side of your provider where they are like, “No. Pitocin is not safe. It is not acceptable. We cannot do this. You have to go into labor by tomorrow or we have to have a C-section.” Right?Brooke: Right, totally. Meagan: That's not what the evidence states. So you learned the facts. You found the provider. That's the next one. Find a supportive provider. Hire a VBAC doula if you can. I want to talk a little bit about doulas. Obviously, I am a doula and I have a whole doula program here at The VBAC Link so I advocate for doulas every single second of the day, but I know sometimes it's not possible and you mentioned that financially. There are avenues. You can go to Be Her Village or instead of a baby shower and getting a whole bunch of extra clothes, you can ask for support for doulas. There are ways around that but then I wanted to also talk about hiring a doula. Just like hiring a provider who is supportive of VBAC, you also want to try to find a doula who is supportive of VBAC as well. We had a story just a while ago that talked about how she had an amazing doula and it sounds like she was honestly amazing, but VBAC was something that made her uncomfortable. She didn't know that until she was in that space. Brooke: Yeah. I experienced that in my interviews. I did talk to a few doulas who were like, “Well, I've never done a VBAC but physiologically, it's the same as any other birth.” While that is definitely true, I knew that I needed somebody in my corner who understood the emotional impact and what this was going to do for my psyche. Physiologically, man. I have been listening to your podcast. I was like, “These women can do it. I can do it.” A very good friend of mine had a VBAC and the whole time through her pregnancy, I was cheering her on. It was in my head. I was like, “It has already happened. This is done. It's a done deal. You're going to have a VBAC.” Then it was my turn and I was like, I had that faith in my friend. I need to have that faith in myself. I can do this. I really can. I got that from listening to your podcast and hearing other women have this success. That was absolutely critical, but knowing that a doula who understood that and who had been there for other VBAC moms was critical for me. Actually, the doula that I ended up having with me that I hired and that was with me in my birth, she was the doula for her sister who had a VBAC so I was like, “She knows. It's personal to her.” It was perfect. It was perfect. Yeah. It's another part of your team that supports you and understands. Even if they haven't had a VBAC themselves, they are supportive of VBAC and really understand again those facts and the evidence surrounding VBAC. 1:04:22 Control what you can controlMeagan: Finding the birth location. You mentioned you knew that this other location may not have been the best idea and this is where you would feel more safe and you chose that. That is so important to choose where you feel comfortable and what resonates with you. Avoiding induction, however, we know induction happens. Here we are. An induction happened and an induction can happen. Avoid an induction that is not necessary, but also know that if induction comes your way, that doesn't mean that your birth dreams and your birth preferences and everything just go completely out of the window. It's still possible to VBAC if we didn't just prove it with this episode and many other episodes before with an induction. Processing past birth experiences, creating a birth plan. I love how you had a vision board and you were like, “This is my vision. I'm going to do these things. These are within my control.” Surround yourself with the people who support you even outside of your birth team. Going to the massage therapist, and chiropractor, doing Spinning Babies. All of these things are really, really going to help you have a better chance of a VBAC, but then also I feel like if a VBAC doesn't end up happening, you can go back and say, “I did everything I could do in my power and I controlled what I could control.” That message stuck out to me during your story. You said it just a couple of times, but that to me is very powerful. Control what you can control. Brooke: Yeah. I would want anybody listening to really hang on to that and to have faith in yourself. In my second pregnancy, I felt like I just needed to go along with what the doctor said. I had a high-risk pregnancy. I was bleeding like crazy. I didn't know what was going on. Everything felt really uncertain at that point in the pandemic and where I was living and it was just that I didn't take any control. I just did not own my birth at all. I will always wonder if I had done things differently. If I wasn't on bedrest and I was moving and if I drank the tea and if I had a doula which wasn't an option at that moment in time, but if I had done things differently, would I have had such a traumatic Cesarean birth? Would that experience have happened? I will never know, but I wanted to know going into this one that I did everything that felt right to me. My doula would make suggestions and I did the things that I was like, “Yeah. That's something I'm going to do.” Then there were suggestions that she made that I was like, “Mmm, that doesn't sound good to me,” so I just didn't do it. I followed my gut. I had faith in myself. I was like, “I'm going to do X, Y, and Z. I'm not going to do A, B, and C.” Doing what feels right to you and your body, my provider, and I had the mantras too. My provider was amazing, but I knew going into it that obstetrics is not as old as the wisdom of my body and I need to trust it first. My OB is one man. If there is something wrong, they are there to course correct but I just need to let my body do its thing. My provider was so supportive of that and I think that controlling that was huge. I mean, I literally changed doctors the day before my induction. That is something you can do. In my first birth, it was so obvious that I was just routine. I was in and out of the hospital, just another mom giving birth. Nameless. This is the biggest moment of your life and you have to do what you can do to make it the experience you want it to be. I knew that going in, my son needed an induction and that was the whole pregnancy, I was like, “I won't be induced. That's where I draw the line. I'll go for a repeat C-section before I get induced,” and it was time. They were like, “We need to induce.” I knew that was what I had to do to save my son. I was like, “We're going to go for it.” My provider made me feel really safe and I'm just really glad that up until that last minute, I was advocating for the birth that I wanted and that was when I got the birth I wanted, but I knew that if it ultimately ended in a C-section because that was what he needed or if something would occur that that was what I needed, that that is what was needed and not just, “Oh, time's up. Oh, you have an infection.” Control what you can control. Meagan: Yep. That's the message of the day. Control what you can control. VBAC is possible. You did it. I'm so happy for you and thank you so much for sharing your story with us today.Brooke: Thank you so much for having me. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Crystal Nightingale from The Mama Coach joined us a few months ago and is back again today diving deeper into postpartum and breastfeeding than we've ever gone before!Did you know that new research is showing that cold compresses are more effective in helping clogged ducts than warm compresses or showers?Crystal shares her valuable insight gained as a registered nurse and IBCLC of over 10 years. Meagan and Crystal discuss everything from appropriate newborn weight loss to all types of infant feeding to how to have a successful breastfeeding journey starting even before birth. As we kick off 2024, we promise to bring new topics, deeper discussions, and exciting changes that will empower you even more to continue to have better birth AND postpartum experiences.  Additional LinksCrystal's WebsiteThe Mama CoachThe Lactation NetworkHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, hello you guys. It's 2024. I cannot believe that 2023 went so stinking fast and we're already here. I think the new year is super fun because I think about all of the exciting things that we want to do for the year and we have this extra motivation. Today, we're actually going to be talking about something that we don't talk about a lot on the podcast. This is going to be postpartum. I'm excited to talk about postpartum because, with The VBAC Link, we are all Women of Strength. You are all preparing for birth. You're all preparing for pregnancy sometimes. We're so focused on the birth, but we forget about what comes after the birth. So we have our friend, our dear, dear friend, Crystal. Hello, Crystal. Crystal: Hello, good morning. Happy New Year. Meagan: Good morning. I am so excited to have you on today. Crystal: I'm excited. Thank you. Meagan: Yes. You are a registered nurse, an international board-certified lactation consultant which is an IBCLC and for everyone who has never seen an IBCLC, you guys, I have three babies and I breastfed with all three of them. I've seen an IBCLC with each baby because I've found that each baby is so different. Crystal: Yes. Meagan: If you haven't seen an IBCLC before, I would highly suggest it. They can help so much. But Crystal is from The Mama Coach and she is going to be talking with us today about postpartum and mood stuff and breastfeeding and so many powerful things. So hold on tight. We're going to do a review and dive right in. Review of the WeekThis review is from– I don't even know how to say it– miralamb04 on Apple Podcasts and it says, “A Must Resource During Pregnancy.” It says, “The VBAC Link was most helpful and encouraging during my TOLAC (trial of labor after Cesarean) preparation. I used all of the episodes to everyone's different expectations and outcomes to help me prepare for my VBAC. Finding out I was pregnant six months postpartum after a planned C-section due to a breech baby was frightening at first.”We have talked a lot about this close duration. It says, “I knew immediately I wanted to VBAC and started doing my research. The VBAC Link was constant during my stroller walks with my baby and helped me mentally prepare for my second pregnancy. I used the resources provided to help open up conversation during my prenatal appointments and ultimately advocate for myself and my baby for a planned, hospital TOLAC. I successfully had my second baby via VBAC a few days ago and I'm so happy that I did. Everything I could have wanted and so much more. Thank you, Julie and Meagan.” I love that so much. You guys, this is what this platform is for. It's for you to have the education, the information, and the empowerment to go on and make the best decision for you no matter how that is and what your birth outcome looks like. I love how she said, “To advocate for me and my baby.” Right? Crystal: Yes. Love it. Meagan: I love it. That is so cool.Crystal: Very, very. Meagan: Thank you so much for that review. They touch me from the bottom of my heart and if you haven't, please drop us a comment. Drop us a review. Let us know what you think about The VBAC Link. Crystal Nightingale Meagan: Okay, cute Crystal. Welcome, welcome. Crystal: Hi. Thank you for having me. Meagan: Absolutely. I'm so honored that you are here and taking the time out of your very busy day to talk more about that topic that we just don't talk about. It's not even that we don't talk about it. I think it's just that we don't think about it. Crystal: Yeah, yeah. Meagan: It's so far over there because we have such an event to get through. Birth is an event. Crystal: Yeah, it's huge. Meagan: It's such an event to get through that we can't think about what we're doing here or over here because we are right here in this moment preparing for this event. Crystal: Yeah. Yeah. Meagan: I mean, I have ridden tons of bike rides, races, long distances, and ran half marathons. I'm telling you that at mile 10, the only thing I was thinking about was where that finish line was, not where the next starting line was or that next experience. So I'm excited that you are here with us to talk more about this next journey because it is a whole other journey that leads us down a path through life in general and it can impact us for our next birth. Right? Crystal: Yes. Right. Meagan: It's a circle. It all goes together. Let's talk about it a little more. Let's talk about your professional background. What got you into this? What got you into your passion for postpartum and serving moms and babies through postpartum and through breastfeeding? Crystal: Yeah, so I always knew that I wanted to work as a nurse or in the nursing field. I was just fascinated with labor and delivery and women's health. Of course, being a woman and all of the amazing things that we can do. I had my oldest children younger so I was very naive. After I became a nurse, I really got into postpartum and mother and baby and just seeing new babies come into the world and helping the parents, the whole family, with breastfeeding and helping them take care of their newborn baby and just all of that fascinates me. It's just incredible to me. I've been working with mothers and children as a nurse for a little over 10 years now and you know, just through my time in the hospital and the clinic, I have seen a trend. A lot of parents have the best intentions. They want to breastfeed and they want to do this, but then there is not a lot of support. The WHO, World Health Organization, and CDC all recommend breastfeeding for at least six months, but what? Then parents go back to work at six to eight weeks maybe? Some even sooner. I've seen some moms who have to go back to work within two or three weeks. So just seeing that lack of support postpartum for families just triggered, “Okay.” It's very frustrating to be in a hospital or a large health organization setting and not be able to do as much as I want to because of all of the policies and regulations and things like that. So I teamed up with The Mama Coach to start my own private practice and being part of The Mama Coach has been awesome. We are a group of registered nurses and some nurse practitioners all around the world helping parents to make parenting easier through education, evidence-informed solutions, support, assessment, individualized plans, and all of the stuff to help support parents from the prenatal period to postpartum to feeding and starting solids, all the way up to five years of age with sleep and CPR and things like that. So yeah. That's a little bit of my background. I have four kids and I did not get to breastfeed my older two because again, I was young and naive. I didn't know anything. I “tried” to breastfeed not knowing that cluster feeding was normal. I just thought, “Oh no. I need to give formula because they sent me home with formula.” Then all of a sudden, my milk dried up and I was like, “Oh well. I guess I'll just formula feed.” That wasn't what I wanted to do. I just didn't know how to continue the breastfeeding journey. Meagan: Yeah. This isn't like anything that we talked about, but I kind of am wondering if you know the answer to this. We are talking about how all of these organizations– big organizations– encourage breastfeeding. We talk about how we don't necessarily have the support but not only do we not have the support, but we have the alternatives given to us so easily which I think is great. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but it makes it easier or if we don't know. Like with cluster feeding, you think you're baby is starving. You think, “I'm not giving my baby enough. They are always hungry, always hungry and I have to supplement with formula,” when that's not necessarily the case. Why do you think these companies are providing so much formula right out of the gate?Crystal: You know, I'm not sure. I can say it probably is because they are not thinking of the long-term effects of starting formula. If it's needed, how I always was taught especially working in the hospital is that really, formula should be used and treated as a medication. Use if absolutely needed. But, when some staff or doctors or whatever see that a mother is struggling maybe, they don't automatically think, “Let's support her and see how we can help her reach her goal. Let's just feed the baby and deal with it later,” not knowing that that can negatively impact the breastfeeding relationship down the road. You know, like you said, that is there for a reason, and if a baby really needs it, of course, use it. I think the organizations are getting better, but they can still be better. Meagan: Yeah. Do you know what I would like to see more? I know that this can be tricky because of all of the things that are put into our bodies and in this world, but I would love to see milk bank donations more. Crystal: Yes. Meagan: There are certain countries that are literally like Winder Dairy and they bring breastmilk to your porch for people who are struggling. It's so awesome and there are parents out there. There are moms out there who have an insane overproduction, but their baby isn't necessarily using it and it could go to a preemie baby or to a mom that may have a little bit of a rough start or have had a Cesarean under general anesthesia and isn't able to really even be present in that moment. I would love to see that happen more. I don't even know. There are all of the things out there. There are all of the apples off of the tree that I would like to grab and make happen. Crystal: That would be so amazing. Meagan: But they are out there too. So if you are struggling in your breastfeeding journey, it doesn't hurt to ask, “Hey, is there a breastmilk donation in our area or in this hospital?” because there are situations where some hospitals– it's not talked about and it's not big enough yet, but there are banks where people who donate. And because of the craziness in this world, they are really, really strict on who can donate. My cousin did one and you have to check a million boxes to be able to donate. So anyway. Crystal: It makes sense. Meagan: It could be weird to people like, “Someone else's milk, what?” Crystal: I've definitely encountered that before. Everyone has their feelings, beliefs, and opinions, so it's like, “Well, it's there.” I am seeing more hospitals in my area up in northern California have donor breastmilk available in the hospital, but the problem with that is they give the donor milk in the hospital, but when they go home, there is still not that support or continuation of care because now, mom's milk maybe is not quite sufficient yet and how do we help them when they go home? Meagan: Right. Crystal: That's another thing that we're seeing too. Meagan: Okay. So that is a question right there even. We can go home, but I'm going to go back and talk about breastfeeding with that. What do we need to not forget about the postpartum journey during the birth preparation? What are some things that people who are pregnant, preparing for birth, and preparing for their birth– they are so excited. They are figuring out if birth is right for them. What do we need to focus on and not forget about during that pregnancy journey? Crystal: Yeah, so of course, like we were saying earlier, getting ready for birth and preparing for birth is a huge event. We prepare for that and all of that, but then we don't think about like we were saying, the postpartum. Think that postpartum can last a year or two years, sometimes even longer depending on how long you breastfeed if you plan to breastfeed. It takes 9-10 months for your hormones to increase and grow this baby and things like that, then of course, it can take– to me, this is my thinking– at least nine months for it to go back down to somewhat normal levels. If you're breastfeeding, you've still got all kinds of hormones going on. So think about that. Babies have to be fed, so how are we going to feed them? Are you going to breastfeed? Do you know what to expect? Do you know what kind of bottles and what kind of formula to use? Do we know what to expect with just newborns in general and newborn care and diapers? Because babies' poops look funky. They are different from ours, so it's like, okay. All of these things, I feel like if parents are a little bit more prepared, then they will have less anxiousness for one because it's a whole new thing whether you are a first-time parent or even if it's your third or fourth baby– even with me for my fourth baby, I was like, “Wait. Is this normal?” I'm a nurse and I work in the field, but it's so different when you're on the other side. So just to be prepared for that so that way you have the expectations and you know, “Okay, what's normal? What's not normal?” Have somewhat of an idea of how to manage some things and know that there is support out there when you need the support. Meagan: Absolutely. Something that I– with my first baby, I ended up going back to work at 12 weeks postpartum. I already wasn't prepared for a Cesarean, so then I was recovering from that, but when it came to feeding my baby and even my emotional status, I really wasn't prepared for all that was happening in such a short period of time and then to shift. As soon as I started feeling like I was kind of getting the hang of it and things were in control or I had a routine, it was like my feet got swooshed underneath me and it was changing again. I was all of a sudden in a back storage room pumping every three hours. I was storing my milk in a fridge where everyone stored their lunch and then trying to figure out that and trying to get enough production for my baby while they were with the babysitter. It was so much. Crystal: It's a lot, yeah. Definitely, going back to work after having a baby, no matter how soon whether it's six weeks or six months is definitely a big change as well. That's something that a lot of parents aren't really thinking about or prepared for which is totally fine. There is so much more going on at the moment, but knowing that, “Okay. I need to prepare and be ready before I go back to work so I know what to expect.” And like I said, getting some support on how to manage that. Get a plan together. Get a schedule together. Meagan: Yeah. So as a doula, I work a lot with my clients right before pregnancy and sometimes they are a little caught off guard when I'm like, “What's your postpartum plan?” They're like, “Huh? Aren't you a birth doula?” I'm like, “Yeah. I am a birth doula, but I know a lot about postpartum and I didn't plan for it either. Let's talk about it. How are you going to eat so you can feed your baby? How are you going to get sleep?” because just like you were talking about before, a lot of moms have to go back 12 or so weeks after. Some of them two weeks after. We also have an issue with our paternity leave– Crystal: Paternity leave for the fathers or the partners. Meagan: Yeah. We have one week. Especially if you have multiple kids, we have one week a lot of the time and then they're gone and we're like, “What are we going to do?” Get your meal trains. Get your support. Rally up together. Have your birth team. Have your postpartum team. Have a plan. We know plans change no matter what– birth, postpartum, everyday life. I sometimes plan to go to Costco and then I don't go to Costco that day because something happened. Plans change, but if we can have a baseline of an idea, I will be like, “Okay.” I have a friend who gets mastitis with every baby. Crystal: Oh gosh. Meagan: With her third baby, she was like, “I'm going to do everything.” She had her IBCLC to go to the hospital on day one to get a good, established latch. She met with her as soon as she left the hospital. By day four, she was meeting with her again to make sure. You guys, she was on sunflower lecithin. I don't know how you feel about that, but that helped her personally to not be so sticky. She was like, “I have got to get this under control. I have two other kids. I cannot be sick with mastitis.” Then she would end up getting thrush after that so she took a probiotic. Crystal: Oh my gosh. Meagan: There are things we can do and it's really hard to focus on that in the pregnancy stage. Crystal: Yeah, yeah. Meagan: But there are things. We can get on those probiotics. We can contact those IBCLCs. We can have a plan in place so we are not just thrown into the fire. Especially in my case, where I did have a Cesarean and a repeat Cesarean, those were just things that were unexpected so prepare the best you can. I love that. I love your advice. This is so important and get that support. Crystal: Yeah, for sure. I just thought of something because I talked a lot about breastfeeding and feeding your baby, but you brought up a good point. As mothers, we for sure neglect ourselves all of the time so like you were talking about with eating, make sure you eat and hydrate. Moms are recovering too from birth so whether it's vaginal or a Cesarean, planned or an emergency Cesarean, your body is doing a lot postpartum. It's just crazy. Meagan: We're amazing. We are amazing human beings. We are incredible.Crystal: Yes. We are. We are. We so are, but then we have to remember to take care of ourselves as much as possible. That's where the support and village come in because you can't do it all yourself. I guess you could. I'm sure some women have, but you shouldn't have to do it by yourself. Meagan: No, and I think like you are saying, we shouldn't have to but for some reason, we do. Crystal: Yeah. I know. I know. Meagan: We don't ask for help. We struggle asking for support. We struggle spending money on ourselves. We struggle getting postpartum doulas or going to an IBCLC because it costs so much and insurance doesn't cover it. You guys, you are worth it. You are worth it. You are amazing. You grew a human. You birthed a human. You are now taking care of a human. You are feeding a human. There is so much to it. It's okay to get that support and give back to yourself. Crystal: Totally, totally. I 1000% agree. Meagan: Yes and sometimes, that is finding a coach and just getting some advice or talking to someone and just being heard. Maybe you don't physically need anything, you just need to be heard. Crystal: Yeah, yeah. Meagan: Yes. Okay, so now we've had our baby and everything. What can we look for in the first few weeks to know that maybe we need to ask for more help or get more resources or take care of ourselves? What are some things that we can look for in those first few weeks with nursing and postpartum just in general? Crystal: Yeah, yeah. So for moms, I have spoken to a lot of moms who weren't aware that there would still be bleeding afterward so there is that. Meagan: That is a thing. Crystal: Yes, that is a thing. You are still bleeding. That is normal, but obviously, from a nursing standpoint, if there is excessive blood or you are filling a pad every hour, then for sure, you want to reach out. A lot of women tend to swell postpartum. Some are like, “No, I didn't have any swelling during the pregnancy,” then all of a sudden postpartum, you just blow up. Your feet are swollen and things like that. That could be due to some IV fluids or other stuff going on, but for sure, you want to reach out to your provider with that. Contractions and cramping afterward are still a thing, especially with breastfeeding. Some women are just like, “Oh my gosh. I did not know about this.” Some women feel great after delivering. They are like, “Yeah. I don't need to take my meds. I'm feeling okay,” but once they start breastfeeding and they start feeling these contractions, it's like, “I'm in labor again.” That is normal. I know it's uncomfortable, but that is definitely normal. If you still feel that when you're not breastfeeding or it's not relieved with pain meds, then for sure, I would highly recommend reaching out to the provider. Meagan: That can also get worse with each baby, right? Crystal: Yes. Yes, it can get stronger. Meagan: It can last a little longer and be a little bit more intense, yeah. Crystal: I know which is like, “Why? We already went through this. Why do we have to make it worse?” Meagan: Our uteruses have to shrink down. Crystal: I know. It's a good thing. The cramping is a good thing. It's a normal thing. We want that. It controls bleeding. It gets the uterus back down to the normal size and all of that. Engorgement. Even if a mom is not breastfeeding, the body's natural, physiological response is to bring in milk. With the delivery of the placenta, your hormones drop and that triggers, “Oh, okay. Baby has been born. Let's make milk.” Meagan: We have to feed it. Crystal: Yes. So whether you breastfeed or not, if you don't breastfeed, you may not get as much engorgement, but there is still stuff going on there. If you are breastfeeding, you will almost 100% get engorged in the first few days anywhere from day three to five. Sometimes it is a little bit longer, but around there, your breasts will feel really full. Some women say their breast sizes double or triple. Meagan: Mhmm. Crystal: They can get really rock hard. That's pretty normal because your milk is coming in. Getting support with latching well so the baby can empty it or if you need to, maybe you have to pump a little bit, but like I said, of course. Reach out for lactation support because depending on the situation or what's going on, the lactation consultant can further guide you on how to manage that. But lumps, you may feel little lumps in the breast. That is pretty normal. Those are just basically milk ducts that are swollen or filling with milk because of the postpartum period with increased swelling and things like that. After engorgement, I'm thinking of the progression of things, a lot of parents see clogged ducts, but now we know that it's called ductile narrowing instead of clogged ducts. Meagan: Oh. Crystal: Yes. Before, we thought that the milk was getting clogged. Meagan: Getting sticky. Crystal: Yes, then we had to somehow remove this milk plug, but the new research by the Academy of Breastfeeding Medicine is saying that it's not that. It's inflammation and swelling of the milk duct itself that causes the narrowing of the channel or the passageway that milk goes through and that makes it back up. It backs up the milk. Management for that beforehand was warm compresses and massage, massage, massage, dangle feeding or something like that. Now, they are saying that we should be using cold compresses. Meagan: Oh, okay to reduce inflammation. Crystal: Exactly, to reduce inflammation. I always tell parents that if we have a swollen ankle and the breasts are swollen, we wouldn't put a hot or a warm compress on it. Meagan: No. Okay, I'm noting it. Crystal: You would do the ice or the cold compress to reduce the inflammation and when we reduce the inflammation in those milk ducts, now that passageway opens up, everything can calm down, and milk can flow a little bit easier. Meagan: Mind blown!! Crystal: I know. Meagan: That is amazing. That would have been nice to know a long time ago. Crystal: I know. When I see moms say, “Oh my gosh, I have this lump and my breasts don't feel empty even with breastfeeding or pumping. I've been doing hot showers and massaging it.” I'm like, “No. Try cold.” Almost always, it helps. Meagan: I am totally adding this to my doula toolbox. Crystal: Yes. Yes. Meagan: This is really good information. Crystal: It is. It's so amazing when parents come back and they are like, “Oh my gosh. It worked. I can't believe it.” Also, breast tissue is very delicate. It's soft tissue. Some moms are just aggressively massaging their breasts like, “Oh my god. I have to get this out.” You don't want to do that because you can further damage and cause trauma to the breast tissues. Meagan: More inflammation. Crystal: Yes, more inflammation, exactly. Light massage. If you need to, cold compresses for that. For moms, I'm going on and on right now. This episode is going to be forever. It's going to be hours long. That's kind of the basics of the immediate thing that we need to look for in mom physically. Emotionally and mentally, parents are sleep-deprived so we definitely want to make sure, like you said, have those meal trains. I even suggest adding this to the baby registry when you are pregnant like meal cards, Door Dash cards, a postpartum doula even. It's like, “Whoa. Instead of giving me all of this, this is what I'm going to need help with in the first couple of weeks.” I know for me, I guess I'm thinking of myself and my baby, but I'm also thinking of everything else in the house that I need to do like, “Oh my gosh, I need to do the laundry. Oh my gosh. The other kids need to get rides to school,” or what have you. If there is anything, you know how friends and family are always saying, “Let me know if I can do anything to help,” please ask for help because moms and parents need sleep definitely. That helps because, for one, sleep is just a human need. Two, for sanity, and three, because the more rest that we can get as mothers, as a breastfeeding and lactating parent, the better our milk supply will be too. Meagan: Yeah, 100%. Like we were talking about, we are not thinking of drinking and that helps our breast supply. That helps our healing physically and keeps us in our minds. On that topic, Be Her Village– I'm sure you've heard us talk about it. Check out Be Her Village. You guys can create a registry just like Crystal is describing where you can go and register for a doula or childbirth education or money for an IBCLC or pelvic floor health or mental health. All of these things, if this is your registry– Crystal: Pelvic floor health, oh my gosh, is another thing. We don't know about that. Most mothers are just– not that we don't care, we just don't know. There are just so many things going on down there that for sure you need some kind of pelvic floor rehabilitation afterwards even if you have a C-section. Meagan: 100%. It's aggravating. I'm not going to spiral off on this tangent. It's aggravating to me that so many insurance companies do not cover this as a standard part of postpartum. But they're not covering postpartum pelvic floor issues. They're not covering this. Crystal: Yeah. Meagan: I went and it was $250 per visit and as a new mom, especially if we invested in a doula and an IBCLC and a photographer or whatever. Crystal: All of those things, yeah. Meagan: It's like, “Oh, whatever,” and now we have a newborn that has to have diapers at $50/box. It's really hard. Crystal: Right and that's where we neglect ourselves again. Not that we want to, but I don't even know who to blame. Healthcare or insurance or whatever is preventing us from getting the proper care or support. I did the same thing. I just wanted to touch on that. I did the same thing. I was having issues holding my bladder and I asked for a referral from my doctor for pelvic floor health because doing our own research, we're like, “Okay. I think I need to see a pelvic floor therapist.” They did not. They were like, “Well, normally we don't do that.” I'm like, “Why?”I did the same thing. I tried to look into it myself to pay out of pocket and it was expensive and I just kind of gave up and was just like, “Okay. I'll just do my own research and find out some exercises on my own and just do it on my own,” which is sad. We shouldn't have to do that. Meagan: I agree. I agree. Crystal: But okay, so on to what to expect because there are still a couple of other things. There is so much, but I just want to touch on the emotional and the mood disorders because that is very, very important and huge. I always recommend that when moms take classes prenatally they have a partner or a birth partner or something that is along for the ride with them who comes to the classes and things like that. I really recommend that postpartum too. Any time of postpartum class, newborn class, or breastfeeding class, the partner or caregiver should definitely be involved as well as the birthing parent because as moms, we don't initially see that there is something more going on with us for postpartum anxiety, postpartum depression, and things like that. It's usually a close family member who notices things going on first. Definitely, I feel like the whole family should be involved in that and if parents are just struggling with coping and with new life as a parent breastfeeding and all of the things, then definitely reach out for support because that can definitely happen with all of the hormones going on and the stress. Meagan: Lack of support. Crystal: Lack of support. Meagan: Lack of sleep. Crystal: Lack of sleep, yes. That's definitely something big. Meagan: I want to talk just slightly about this. It's really hard as a new mom to and I hope this isn't triggering, pass your baby to someone so you can take care of yourself. We had a client years ago that was really struggling. She had a series of things and was really struggling. One of the things that we ended up coming up with was for her to go to her mom's for the night. We came up with a good plan and had help with dad and the kids for baby. She ended up pumping and coming up with a supply and for one night– she did wake up engorged– she slept all night. All night. She went to bed at 8:30. She pumped before and went to bed. She woke up. I think she said it was at 6:30 which is still early, but 8:30 to 6:30 is a good stretch. She was probably so engorged that she had to wake up, but you guys, she was a new person. She said that. She was like, “Whoa. It's like my funk was just sucked out of me just by getting that sleep.” That was really hard for her to do that. Crystal: Of course, I'm sure. Meagan: It was really hard for her to be like, “I'm giving up my baby who is four days old overnight.” It's not ideal. It wasn't ideal, but she spiraled quickly and she got to a place where that's ultimately what she thought was going to be best. Anyway, it was amazing. She still had trials to get through because the next night, she had lack of sleep but she was able to build up that foundation a little bit more by getting a good night's rest. Crystal: Of course. Exactly. Meagan: Her mom seriously had all of these broths and all of this high-protein food and all of these amazing things to fill her being with all of the good things. Crystal: Yeah, because as mom, we are filling everybody else's cup usually, but we aren't filling up our cup. Meagan: Yeah. You don't have to leave your baby with anyone overnight, but going back to that, have someone fill your cup. Have someone fill your cup. Food, all of those things. Crystal: Everything. I've heard of some parents when they finally get three or four hours of sleep straight, they're like, “Oh my gosh. That was amazing.” Same thing. “I feel like a new person.” Just because sleep is a human need, so we need that and if we're just constantly days upon days upon days of getting only 1-2 hours at a time of sleep, that's definitely not sustainable and not enough. Meagan: Yeah. Yeah. She started resenting her baby. Crystal: Yeah. Yeah. I've heard of that too. Meagan: She started having anxiety at nighttime. Crystal: Yeah. Yeah. I could definitely see how that can come about for sure especially if you're breastfeeding, especially with that. We all know that of course, breast is best. Breastmilk is best, but we also have to think of the whole picture. I always tell this to all of my clients and patients that I work with. Mental and sleep health is very important. Very. I know breastmilk is too, but you do the best that you can. Meagan: It's like when we're on the airplane and they talk about if we're in an emergency and the masks fall down, prepare your mask on you first before you help someone else. Crystal: Yes. Meagan: It's a similar concept to me where if we cannot fuel ourselves with the oxygen and the sleep and these things, we cannot 100% take care of this baby. Crystal: Right, yeah. Meagan: We can't make milk. Crystal: Right. Meagan: Because our body is going to protect us and sometimes we will see a milk dip with stresses and things like that. I have clients who are nursing really, really well and then a stressful event happens in their life and they're like, “I'm losing my milk. I'm losing my milk. Is my baby not eating enough?” It's crazy how just mentally our body can do that. It can stop making as much milk. Have you seen that?Crystal: Yeah. I have. I have actually. A stressful event or if mom starts a new medication, especially birth control. They don't know. They just don't know. When I talk to my doula consultation, I say, “Any new medications?” They say, “Well, I just started taking birth control but my doctor said it should be fine and won't affect my milk supply.” I'm like, anything new can. It can. Meagan: Hormones. Crystal: It's not to say that we can't get the milk supply back up, but at least being aware of it. Okay, this is why. It's not because of something else or whatever. So yeah. I've seen that. Meagan: Yeah. Crystal: Periods, too. Moms starting their period again, it can–Meagan: Throw it off. Crystal: Every month during your cycle, yeah. It throws it off. Lots of different things that could happen and will happen, so just something to have in the back of your mind like, “Okay. This is what I remember Crystal, The Mama Coach, saying or whoever saying that this can happen, but there are ways to work around it.” Meagan: This next question is a did-you-know. I feel like this is something actually that a lot of people do not know and that is that babies lose weight in the first few days. They can lose even more than the recommended loss if there was an induction, or a lot of fluids, or a surgery. Can we talk about that? Crystal: Yes. Yes. Correct. Meagan: Can we talk about what is normal? Because I feel like again, mentally, there is so much stress on feeding the baby, getting enough, cluster feeding, and all of these things, then we have this baby that weighed in at 7lb, 12 oz and is now weighing in at 6lb, 15oz, and we are like, “Whoa. This is a big loss.” We've got providers freaking out about it, suggesting supplements, and things like that. What's normal? What is the average loss just without induction and things like that? Can we talk a little bit about that so we can offer some comfort to these mamas who might have a baby that's losing weight? Crystal: Yeah, yeah. So babies can lose up to 10% of their birth weight within the first three to four days or so. Normal weight loss is about 2-3% per day. So with that being said, when babies are in the womb, they are swallowing amniotic fluid. They are swallowing, swallowing, swallowing, so technically, they are born full and their first stool is that sticky, black, tarry meconium that is just getting rid of all of that amniotic fluid that they were swallowing while they were in the womb. So that's some weight loss because they are probably pooping five or six times within the first one or two days and it's super sticky. Then, like you said, if mom was inducted or induced or got a lot of IV fluids, antibiotics, and a Cesarean, then they got extra fluids. Anything that mom gets during labor, baby gets some of it too. Really, some providers are saying that a newborn's true weight can be seen 24 hours after birth versus one or two hours right after birth. That weight loss takes into account that. Fluids, getting rid of the meconium, and things like that, and then anything more than 10%, then we get kind of concerned. Like you said, some providers are like, “Oh my gosh. Let's do all of this.” Me, as the lactation consultant, I am less freaked out because I know that especially if a mom is breastfeeding, babies'– we're getting to probably one of our next questions– bellies are really small, so in the first couple of days, they are only taking 2-10 milliliters per feeding which is less than half of a teaspoon up to two teaspoons per feeding. That is the colostrum that they are receiving from mom, that yellow, thick, first milk that is expressed from mom's breast and although it's smaller in volume, it's really packed with a lot of nutrients and antibodies and things like that. It is nutritionally–Meagan: I say dense. Crystal: Dense, yeah. Nutritionally dense. So baby is getting what they need, it's just a smaller volume because it makes up for the fact that it takes a couple of days for mom's milk to increase and increase in volume and things like that. Babies are losing all of this excess fluids, pooping out all of this meconium, and then they're just getting smaller, frequent amounts of colostrum. All of that are factors in weight loss. And then when mom's milk starts to increase around day three to seven, they start taking in more volume and then we start to see some weight gain there. Now of course, as a lactation consultant, we look at the whole picture. What happened with the mom's labor and delivery experience? Is this baby number one or two or multiple for them? Do they have any medical background that might be a factor in milk increasing or milk coming in? All things like that and when I look at that, I'm like, “Okay. Maybe we need to supplement just a little bit if we need to.”And then I will tell moms, “Let's maybe have you pump or hand express. Any extra colostrum or transitional milk that you can express, give that to baby first and we will see how that goes,” especially if they are not wanting to start formula. Every baby and family is different so I look at the whole picture, look at their goals, and see how best I can help them. But obviously, if a baby loses a significant amount of weight like 13-15%, then we are like, “Yes. We probably need to supplement.” So like I said in the beginning, formula is used when we need it if we need it, not just automatically, “Oh my gosh. Baby is at 9 or 10% weight loss. We need to give formula.” I definitely disagree with that. And it's all the parent's choice as well. I give them the options and they decide what they want to do and then I support them in whatever they decide. Meagan: Right. So as we are kind of working on getting our milk to come in and recovering and things like that, we talked about sleep, mental health, food, water, and things like that. That's all going to help our breastmilk. But are there other things that we could be doing or should be doing to help our milk to come in quicker or once it comes in, to help it be more– savory comes to my mind, but really rich for the baby? You just talked about how some babies do lose up to 13% and then I guess a side question is, do we know why some babies lose a little bit more? Is there a reason or is there something that we as parents could do or should we just be like, supply and demand? Nurse your baby. Your milk will come in. Your milk is great. Just because your baby is not gaining as much weight doesn't mean you should shame yourself or your milk is not good enough, because there is a lot of that too. Is there anything you would give us tip-wise to help milk come in? There are a lot of questions within this one question so I'm just going to turn the time over. Crystal: Okay. So yes. The best thing we can do is early hand expression. Typically, after birth, during the first 24 hours, babies are super sleepy. Super sleepy that it's hard to get them to latch or want to nurse frequently. Thinking about how breastmilk supply works, the more you demand on the breast or remove milk, the more milk you will make. So if the baby is sleeping the first 24 hours, the baby is not expressing as much milk and that is where hand expression is important. Frequently, newborns tend to eat at least 8-12 times in a 24-hour period, so if we break it down by hours, it is just so much easier. Every 2-3 hours or so, attempt to put baby to the breast. Do what you can. If the baby is too sleepy or not latching well, then hand express. Hand expression and get out that colostrum. You can spoon-feed that to baby or cup-feed or syringe-feed that to baby, and then you're still stimulating your supply. Sometimes, I hear parents say, “Oh my gosh, the first day or two, my baby was just so good and slept for four hours.” I'm like, “Did you hand express or pump at that time?” We just don't know. They were like, “No, I didn't. I slept too.” I'm like, “I'm glad you got sleep,” but to help your milk supply increase for baby, it is very, very important to express milk every few hours whether it's hand-expressed, latching, or pumping. I'm trying to think what was the other question you had. Oh, how we can make it more savory. I always recommend doing breast massage prior to any breastfeeding or pumping or expressing session. That's just because especially in the first couple of days, colostrum is very thick, so by massaging– and light massage. Not too hard, not too aggressively. You're basically unsticking or loosening up that milk so that way it can be expressed and you can collect that good, sticky, fatty, colostrum or milk. That's for even at any time. You might have heard of a foremilk and a hindmilk type of thing. That's basically when you express, you see a little fat layer in the bottle or in the milk and to increase that, some researchers say that you can't do anything to increase that, but we can help it to come out a little bit more. That's by hand-expressing or doing what we call a breastmilk shake. I've done this myself with my last baby is just doing the breast massage before breastfeeding or nursing. I have seen a thicker fat layer on the milk, so you can do that. Meagan: That's really good to know. With my son, he was kind of small to begin with, but when I would pump, I was like, “Oh my gosh. There is this much fat in this milk.” All of it separated and I had someone kind of suggest that, but it was a warm compress, not a cold compress. It was a warm compress, slight massage, and then nurse or even hand-express for just a second, and then nurse. Crystal: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. You can do that too. You can breastfeed or even hand-express a little bit too just to help that milk supply especially if baby didn't have a good feeding or wasn't quite latched very well just to ensure we stimulate the breast properly to give that signal of, “Okay, make the milk. Bring the milk in,” and things like that. I just wanted to say as a side note, all breastmilk is beneficial for baby whether you have a thin fat layer or not. Meagan: Good to know. Crystal: Your body still tailors and makes the breastmilk to your baby's needs. Meagan: Awesome. So hand-expressing during pregnancy, we were talking about postpartum, but is it suggested to do a little bit during pregnancy? Crystal: You can, but you have to be considered at least term which is about 37-38 weeks or so, and of course, check with the OB provider because it depends on what risk factors you have. Meagan: Yeah, because it can stimulate. Crystal: It can stimulate because it does with the hand expression, the same hormone is released when you are having a contraction which is oxytocin so it can cause some cramping or contractions so you definitely want to get cleared by the OB first before just starting the hand expression, but yes. Once you get cleared, you can start antenatal hand expression and start collecting. It may be nothing or you might get drops. I've actually tried it on myself before and I didn't get anything. I was kind of discouraged, but I was like, “No, knowing what I know, it's fine,” but it's good practice, too for hand expression postpartum. So practice, collect drops, and then you can freeze it and then bring it to the hospital if for some reason baby needs to be supplemented if they have low blood sugar or jaundice or whatever, so yeah. Meagan: So good to know. Okay, and then last but not least, we have different types of feeding. Bottles, paced bottle feeding, we talked a lot about breastfeeding. Can we talk about all of the different types of feeding?Crystal: Yeah, yeah. So of course, you can do exclusive breastfeeding and that's just feeding baby at the breast, or you can do breastfeeding and pumping so feeding breastmilk in some type of vessel whether it's a bottle or syringe. I typically see bottle and syringe usually especially when the milk volume increases or you could do combo feeding which is breastfeeding, pumping, and formula feeding so you can do a combination of all three. Some moms do exclusively pumping. They don't put baby to the breast at all for whatever reason. It could be their own preference or they were just struggling with latch and it just was not working out for them, or sometimes it takes a long time to breastfeed, 30-45 minutes, so some moms feel like that works better for them to just pump for 15-20 minutes and bottlefeed. Or some, whether it's their own personal preference or medical reasons, exclusively formula feed. With that, when you do any type of feeding other than breastfeeding and you bottlefeed, you want to pace bottlefeed. We do that for several reasons. For one, sometimes, newborns don't really know how to pace themselves and they will just take that whole bottle. Meagan: Chow it down. Crystal: Chow it down in one minute flat and we don't want that because I always tell parents to think about how we eat. We don't just shove food in our mouths. Meagan: Chew your food. Crystal: Yes, chew your food and things like that. One, it can help baby learn how to slow down their feeding and then learn their own hunger cues like signs of fullness which in turn can help in the longer term as they get older knowing their hunger cues and knowing when they're full and not overeat. Then three, it can help with digestive issues. Gulping too much too fast or drinking too fast, they can take in more air which means they will be more gassy and more fussy and then we are like, “What's going on? Why is my baby so fussy?” It's because they are gassy most of the time. A lot of the time, babies are just not very comfortable when they have gas and they definitely express it and communicate that they are uncomfortable, so we want to prevent that. By pace bottle-feeding, we help to remedy that. Meagan: That makes total sense. Sometimes, I feel like when they are gasping all of that air, then they spit up a lot. This is not really one of the questions we talked about, but when a baby spits up, a lot of the time we see it, and it looks like a lot and we are like, “I can't believe I just fed my baby and it's right here on this blanket or all over myself.” Is there a rule of thumb to be like, “Okay, really, that is true. Every little ounce of that just came out?” Or is it like, “Okay, your baby still got quite a bit.” Crystal: That's kind of hard to say because like you said, it does visually look more than it is which is why pace bottle-feeding is important because we want to take frequent breaks, little, quick breaks of a couple of minutes or so to burp, let that move down their belly, and get that excess air out, and then continue feeding. I always recommend that if your baby spits up and it looks like a lot, see how they're doing and go by their cues. If it seems like they are looking for food again, try and give a little but maybe a smaller amount just to see how it goes. Meagan: Mhmm. That's a good rule of thumb. Crystal: Keeping babies upright after feeding, if you can,  will help to lessen the chance of spit-up, but then again, sometimes babies spit up out of nowhere an hour after feeding. Parents are like, “I don't know what's going on. He spit up.” If that happens and you are burping your baby and keeping them upright after feedings, I would definitely talk to a provider because sometimes it can be the formula if they are drinking formula or something to that effect. Meagan: Mhmm. Yeah. Awesome. We've gone over so much. Crystal: I know. Meagan: I want to just end on The Mama Coach. How can people find you? What do you guys offer? How does The Mama Coach? I mean, I know how. It's in amazing ways and who is a good, qualifier to go and find a Mama Coach?Crystal: Yeah, like I mentioned earlier, The Mama Coach is a group of registered nurses all over the world. I am the owner here in Vacaville, California which is in Northern California. Our goal is just to help make parenting easier. Like I mentioned, we do have prenatal services. We have postpartum services and newborn services, helping with any type of feeding even if you are not breastfeeding. Meagan: Sleep?Crystal: Sleep, yes. We have sleep. We help with newborn sleep, toddler sleep, potty training, CPR and choking classes, starting solids as well as one-on-one services here. For me, locally, I do home visits and home lactation visits. I can do any of the workshops one-on-one in home or virtually. My niche is breastfeeding– prenatal breastfeeding education and consultations as well as postpartum of course, newborn care, and sleep because those are all important things. Meagan: Very, very important things. Crystal: Very important. Meagan: You guys make it really, so easy. You just go to themamacoach.com. There is a “Find a Mama Coach”. You can search what you are looking for or you can type in your zip code and you can pull up all of the Mama Coaches near you and go over all of their services. I don't think there is a single one that only does one thing. Crystal: No, we all pretty much do a lot. Yes, correct. Yep. For sure. If you are a new or expecting parent or even a parent of a three-year-old– any parent that is struggling and your baby is five years old or under, we can help you. I am on Instagram. My Instagram is crystal.night.themamacoach. We also have a website like you were saying. The main website is themamacoach.com. We each have our own individual sites as well and I'm sure we'll post that information somewhere, but yeah. Reach out to any one of us and myself if you are in Northern California in the Vacaville area. We, like I said, almost all do virtual and then also locally in person too. I do ongoing workshops and that's always posted on my website in the classes or on my Instagram. Meagan: So amazing. You guys are doing so much. You even have a blog where you can look specifically at pregnancy, newborn, sleep schedules, and parenting in general. I mean, these guys have amazing things so make sure to go follow. We'll make sure to tag you today on our Instagram and our Facebook so you can go and find it. We're going to have the website in the show notes. We'll have all of the things we have talked about and seriously, thank you so much for helping our community because like I said, we don't talk about postpartum as much. We don't focus on it as much. We don't focus on feeding and all of the things, so thank you so much for kicking off the 2024 season with a new type of topic. Crystal: Yes. Yes. Awesome. I was so happy to be on here. Thank you. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

In this episode Kaitlyn McGreyes, founder of Be her Village, and I sit down and talk about ALL things building your business, but not in the usual way I do!We will really break down the mental, emotional and spiritual ways to create the foundation of your business so it serves you while you are serving the perinatal community.  Out of this way of thinking, The Birthworker Retreat was born!  The Birthworker Retreat is a few days in sunny Florida in January 2024 (and every January after!) that will be life changing for the birth workers attending.  We will be focusing on lifting up and refilling everyone so they can take the best care of their clients while simultaneously prioritizing themselves.  You will feel revitalized by the end of this episode because you'll learn exactly what your business needs from you and how to create the roadmap to get you there.Check out The Birth Worker Retreat here: https://mailchi.mp/behervillage/birthworkerretreatLearn more about Be Her Village here: https://behervillage.com/You can find me at:www.hiptoheart.comhttps://www.instagram.com/hiptoheartRegister for the Hip to Heart Birth Boss Academy here:https://www.hiptoheart.com/birth-boss-academyApply to the Hip to Heart Agency Masterclass here:https://www.hiptoheart.com/agency-transition-classJoin my Facebook group for Birth + Postpartum Professionalshttps://www.facebook.com/groups/businessforbirth

Petra joins us today from Modesto, California sharing her unmedicated, hospital VBA3C story! Petra learned and grew from each of her three C-section births which paved the way for her to manifest the birth of her dreams with her fourth. Though she had very little support around her, Petra stayed steady. She continued to prepare her heart, mind, and body for the physiological birth she knew she could have. She tuned out the negativity. She trusted the path she knew she was supposed to take. Petra was thrilled to experience labor when the time came. She knew what to do. Her education and preparation paid off. She labored hard at home and went to the hospital when it felt right. Two hours later, Petra was crying tears of joy with a sweet baby on her chest. Petra is forever changed by her empowering birth experience and has now dedicated her heart's work to helping other women do the same. Additional LinksPetra's WebsiteThe VBAC Link Blog: VBAC After 3 C-sectionsNeeded WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsFull Transcript under Episode Details Meagan: Hello, hello. I hope you guys had a wonderful Thanksgiving. We are back with another story for you. Today we have a VBAC-after-multiple-Cesareans story. In fact, it is a VBAC after three which is a little bit harder to find information on and to find support for. We have our friend, Petra– look, I almost did it. Petra. I asked her before the episode. Pay-tra? Petra? I had a neighbor, so in my head, it just went, “Pay-tra”. Anyway, hello, hello. Welcome. Petra: Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Meagan: Yes, so happy. You are from California. Is that correct? Petra: I am, yes. Meagan: Was your VBAC after three C-sections in California? Petra: Yes. Meagan: I feel like especially when we have VBAMC, we have so many people writing in saying, “Where did this person go and where are they located? Because if they are in my area, I need to find that provider or I need to research.” It sucks, but we don't get the support after multiple Cesareans more often than not. Of course, through your episode, feel free to share and name-blast anyone in a positive way of course. Send those names out to the audience because I'm sure that they will want to research your provider. Review of the WeekOkay, so as always, we have a quick review. This is by cve18 and it was actually written in 2020. It says, “Gave me courage. This podcast is everything I needed to switch to a supportive instead of a tolerant provider at 28 weeks pregnant. The education and information I have learned is immeasurable. I have been researching and discussing with my husband to get a doula and all of the things to help me get a successful VBAC in December. Thank you for all of the things and I know I will have done everything I could for my future VBAC.” Thank you so much for your review and as always, you guys, we are always loving your reviews. You can go to Google. You can go to Apple Podcasts. Wherever you can, drop us a review because it may be read on the next podcast. Petra's StoriesI just want to tell people a little bit more about you. Guys, she is a birth doula and if you haven't noticed on this podcast, we love doulas. She is a birth doula, a birth educator, an advocate for VBAC, and a birth coach who had the most transformative vaginal birth after three C-sections. She now works with women who are ready to strengthen their authenticity and help them not only become healthier mentally, but have the pregnancy, birth, and postpartum experience they've dreamt of without feeling the fear and or inhibit– Oh my gosh. How do I say the word? How do I say the word? Petra: Oh my gosh. I think I need to change that word. Meagan: Inhibitions. Petra: So they don't feel—Meagan: So they don't feel– Petra: Inhibited. Meagan: Inhibited. Yeah. I couldn't spit it out. Okay, and hold them back. Okay. We're back on track. Okay. She wants to help women reclaim the power that they already possess. That right there, I just love that. Women of Strength, I want you to know this. You have the power. You already possess it. This is why I love this so much. You are reclaiming the power that you already possess so we can help break the cycle. Right? Let's break the cycle that is no longer serving us. The cycles are no longer serving us. That introduction– I'm sorry. You wrote that. I just read what you wrote and apparently couldn't even read what you wrote, but that is so powerful. So thank you. Thank you for writing that. Petra: Yeah, of course. I just feel like these are all barriers that I had. Going through each one of my pregnancies up until my VBAC and now in my support of clients that I have, it's huge. It's a huge barrier. So if it's okay, I'm going to start placing you in my story. Meagan: Yes. Yes. Petra: Okay, so it all started. I was a teen mom. I had my daughter a month before I turned 17. I was 16. Obviously, it wasn't planned but it happened and it was the best thing that ever happened to me. Even though I had zero support from family and a lot of people, I went on to– let's just go straight to the labor. I was in labor for a couple of hours. I went to the hospital. I rushed there because that's what I see in the movies. Meagan: Right. That's what we're taught. Even today, that's what we're told by our providers. You have contractions. Your water breaks. You come in. Petra: Yes. Exactly, so that's what we did. I took a shower and rushed to the hospital. I got there. They stuck me on monitors and told me to stay in bed so that they could see the baby on the monitors and make sure baby is doing okay. I didn't know any better. I didn't educate myself. I was a teenager. I was so scared and I had no idea what to expect other than what I had seen in media, movies, and all of the stuff. I never really talked about what could happen with my mom or anything like that. I was just like, “I know what I'm doing.” I was that person. “I've got this. My body was made to do this. It will just know what to do.” Well, yes it does, but when you are in a hospital setting and they have certain policies or expectations for how your labor should go, it's different. So yeah. I was hooked up to the monitors. I was there maybe 6 or 8 hours. I didn't progress past a 4 for a couple of hours and they told me, “Okay, the baby's heart is dipping. We've got to get to an emergency Cesarean.” Meagan: Whoa. Petra: I was like, “Whoa, what?” I was just so taken aback. I didn't understand because it was like all of a sudden, everyone was rushing. I'm like, “What is happening?” She's like, “Your baby is in distress. We have to take you to an emergency Cesarean.” I was like, “Okay,” because she said, “You don't want your baby to die, right?” I was like, “Of course, not.” I mean, who wants their baby to die? Come on. That's horrible language to give to somebody. Meagan: Yeah. Those words matter. Petra: Yes. Yes. Oh yeah. I mean, look. My daughter is 18 now and that's ingrained in my brain forever. Anyway, I went back for the Cesarean and once we got in there, nothing was an emergency. Everything was slow. I was like, “Wasn't this an emergency? Aren't you guys in a hurry?” I could hear the doctors talking to each other as they were opening me up and everything. They were talking about, “Oh, now I'll get to make my dinner, my dinner plans.” Meagan: They were saying that out loud? Petra: Yes. Meagan: Oh, I don't like that. Petra: Yes. They were talking to each other. I was just like, “Am I really hearing this right now?” I was like, “Oh gosh.” So anyway, I was so drugged up. I was in this fog. They were like, “Here's your baby.” I didn't even know what was happening. They brought this baby to me wrapped up in a million blankets. All you could see was literally the little circle of her face. You couldn't see any other body part of her. I was like, “Oh, okay.” They were like, “Oh, kiss your baby,” and brought her to my face. I was strapped down to the bed. It was horrible. I was like, “This sucks. This is weird. What? This is birth? I don't like it.” But after I had my daughter, I was so obsessed with her once all of the drugs wore off. It was blissful in the sense that I just loved her completely. It was a hard postpartum recovery because you had a major abdominal surgery. I didn't plan for any postpartum support. I was just flying by the seat of my pants. We had a nonexistent breastfeeding journey because I didn't know what to do. I didn't know who to call to get help but we just made it through. You know, you just get through it. I want to fast forward to my next birth. My daughter was about 8 years– no. Yeah. 8 years later– 10 years later. Oh my gosh, my brain. 10 years later, I was with my then-husband– well, now husband and we got pregnant. Then at my 20-week ultrasound, my doctor was like, “You have placenta previa. You have to have a C-section.”I wanted to have a VBAC, but once she said that she was like, “It's a non-negotiable. You cannot.” Meagan: At 20 weeks though?Petra: Yes. Yes. She was like, “It's fully covering your cervix. There's nothing we can do. It's not going to move.” I was like, “Well, okay.” In my head, I'm like, “Well, you know best. You're the doctor.” I didn't do my research. I didn't realize that it could move and at the 20-week mark, that's not really a good gauge for your placenta staying that way. So anyway, I did end up having her at 36 weeks. It was a planned Cesarean. Meagan: 36? Petra: Yes, because I had a little bit of spotting. It was literally a couple of drops of blood and the doctor was like, “Oh no. We need to have the C-section right now. This is an emergency.” It was crazy. I just felt like everything was a whirlwind and everything was telling me, “I had to. I had to.” There was no other choice given to me and no other option. I just believed in the medical system so much because I have a lot of family that is in the medical system. Anyway, we did it and then for my third baby, so going on to my next daughter, this was four years later. She was a planned Cesarean because my doctor said, “We don't support VBAC. We have a VBAC ban at this hospital. We won't. We'll turn you away.” I was just like, “What?” I just was so confused at all of this language being thrown at me. So she was like, “This is the safest route for you. Your uterus could rupture. Your baby could die.” All of the language is horrible to tell a mom who– of course, you don't want your baby to die or anything bad to happen to them. Meagan: You've been told now twice about emergencies and that your baby could die. Petra: Yes. Meagan: Ugh, I don't like that. Petra: Right. You know, talking to my husband, he was like, “Well, if the doctor says it's the safest route, I guess.” So we did have a planned Cesarean at 39 weeks. But you know, with that pregnancy, I felt like I was ready to give birth at the end. I was like, “Oh my gosh. I feel so good. I feel like I could really have her. We had already scheduled the C-section and my husband was like, “Well, let's just do it. We know what to expect.” I was like, “I guess.” Everybody in my family was like, “I think that is safest for you. That's probably the best option.” Nobody really even has C-sections in my family. Everybody gave birth vaginally so they hear C-section and they're like, “Well, you can't,” because they heard the “once a C-section, always a C-section.” We just had her. It's rough. Every C-section I had, I felt so disconnected from my babies. The breastfeeding journey was hard or nonexistent and I just felt broken. I was like, “What is wrong with my body? Why can't I do this?” It felt so heartbreaking because you're a woman and your body is made to give birth so when doctors say, “No, your body can't,” you're like, “Wait, what?” You feel like you should trust them because they see birth so often. After that birth experience, we decided we wanted to have one more baby. I told my husband, “Absolutely not do I want to have another C-section.” I said, “I don't care what it takes. I'm going to prepare my mind and body and I'm doing this.” Because we also were going to have the babies two years apart, so I was like, “I don't want to be running after a toddler and having a major abdominal surgery.” Meagan: Right. Petra: Once I started diving into the VBAC world, I found your podcast and was binging it like crazy. Meagan: Oh. Petra: It was so helpful hearing all of the positive stories of women succeeding in their VBAC goal. I hate to even put it that way because of course, we all want to have that VBAC if we are planning for it, but if you don't have it, it's not that you fail so I hate even putting that language towards it. It's just nice hearing those stories where they did it. I listened to all of those stories and I tried to find providers. This was before I was even pregnant. I couldn't. First off, obviously, I started with my OB who delivered my other two babies. She was like, “Absolutely not. This is dangerous. You could die. Your baby could die. Your uterus can rupture.” All the words. All the words. I was just like, “Oh my gosh. Here we go again,” but this time, I was educating myself. I was going full force into what I wanted to accomplish and that was my VBAC. Once we did get pregnant, I started calling midwives and doctors in the area. I called my local ICAN group and I got in touch with the ICAN leader. She referred me to all of the providers in my area and outside of my area that supported VBAC after three C-sections. After that, I found nobody supportive in my area. But I knew–Meagan: But they were on the list or they were just in your area? Petra: Yeah. After talking to my husband and discussing our options, we decided that it was not in our best interest to have to drive 4-6 hours outside of where we live because we have three other children. Meagan: Right, the logistics. Petra: Yes, work and at the time, we had just moved. We moved into this home where our rent was now three times what we were used to. It was a little tight and before this, I didn't know about Be Her Village. I am all up in Be Her Village's world now. Meagan: Oh my gosh. I love Be Her Village. Petra: Me too. Meagan: I love Kaitlin and her crew. Oh my gosh. Petra: Yes. I tell all of my clients and everybody. I shout it from the mountaintops, “Check out Be Her Village. If you want support, go to them. Go to them. Go to them.” Anyway, I wish I would have known about them back then. We are there now. We decided that we were just going to do what we could with what we had. I switched providers. I think I was about 30 weeks by the time I was able to switch insurances because I had to switch insurances and I wanted to switch to Kaiser. In my area, it's Kaiser Modesto. I knew they were supportive of vaginal birth after two C-sections so I was like, “Oh, okay. That's only one less than I had and maybe it will be supportive.” I went forward with that. I went to my first doctor's appointment and I told the lady, “I'm having a VBAC,” and she was like, “Absolutely not. That is ridiculous.” I was like, “Well, I'm doing this. I understand your concern. I already know what you're going to say because I've heard it all before. I'm planning to do this, so this is what I'm doing.” She was like, “We need to schedule your C-section. I have to do it.” I was like, “I'm not going to show up. You can schedule it all you want, but I'm not going to go.” Meagan: You have to do it. Petra: Yes. Meagan: Have to. Petra: All of the have-to's. After that, I had another appointment with her and she said the same thing, “Let's schedule your C-section,” right when I walked it. I was just like, “No. I already told you last time that I'm not going to show up. You can schedule it but I'm not going to go in.” She said, “Well, now I have to refer you to the maternal-fetal medicine doctor.” I was like, “Why?” She was like, “Because you're high risk and you're planning to do a high-risk thing, so I have to give you to them.” I was like, “Okay, that's fine.”So I went after that. I met with him and he told me all of the same things. I said, “I totally understand. I respect your opinion, but I'm still going to do what I'm going to do and nobody's going to sway my mind. I'm planning this and it's going to happen.” He was like, “Okay. It seems like you have your mind made up. I told you the risks and that's all I can do.” I was like, “Okay.” Literally after that, I saw a different doctor at every single appointment, and at every single appointment I went to, they all told me the same thing even though I told them what I was doing. It was the same and everything. It felt defeating in a sense. Meagan: I'm thinking too if you continue to hear it time after time after time after time, I feel like some self-doubt can start creeping in and being like, “Well, okay. Everyone is saying I shouldn't do this. Should I be doing this? Is this the right choice? Am I being selfish?” All of those questions, right? Petra: Oh yeah. That's exactly what crept into my mind after every appointment. My husband was working at the time. He wasn't able to come to appointments with me which was fine. But I would call him after every appointment and I would cry. I would tell him, “Am I making the right decision? I feel in my heart I am, but it's hard when somebody keeps telling you no, no, no, no, no.” He was like, “If you feel like it's right, I support you and you're doing the right thing. Who gives a crap what they say?” He's like, “They're nobody.” I was just like, “I know.” Once I started working on my mindset, I really dove into mindset work and started working on it literally daily. Meagan: You have to almost though. Petra: Yes. I was preparing my mind to be okay with the decision that I was making because those doubts crept in and I had to really sit with myself and ask myself, “Okay. What is the worst thing that could happen? What is the best thing that could happen?” I had to really sit with each of those and decide which one I could live with. In my mind, I couldn't sit with living with the, “What if?” Meagan: The what if? Petra: What if I did do it? What if I did succeed but I'll never know because I didn't try? I had to sit with my husband and talk to him about the risks and everything and make sure that we were both on board. I feel like if you're going forward with this type of decision that most people are going to say is dumb, is scary, is irresponsible, then you have to make sure that you have a support system that supports you 100%. I felt very confident in my husband's support. He was like, “If you feel confident in this decision, I trust your judgment.” That to me, was everything because we are a team. We created this baby together. I want to make decisions about this baby together. Of course, ultimately, I'm going to do what I'm going to do and he knows that. When I set my mind to something, it's going to happen. So yeah, we made the decision collectively and at first, I told a couple of people what I was doing like family and friends and then a couple of them were like, “You should just have a C-section. You've already had three. Don't you have a zipper that they can just zip and unzip?” Meagan: Okay, why do people think that? My husband said the same thing. He said, “Why can't we just go unzip you?” I'm like, “I am not a pair of jeans!”Petra: Yes. Yes. It was– oh my gosh. Meagan: I get it. Petra: It was so crazy. I was just like, “This is my body. It's not just a toy or a backpack that you can unzip. It's a major surgery.” Meagan: Exactly. Yep. Petra: It's a major surgery that affects you not only physically, your physical body, but your mentality, your spirituality, and everything. Everything. I stopped telling people what I was doing. I only told a handful of people that I knew would support me 100% and then I stopped telling anybody because I did not want to continue to hear all of the negative language that was feeding into my brain. If it did come in, that negative talk or whatever, I just blocked it out. I said, “Nope. I don't want to hear it. I don't want to hear it.” I feel like that really helped. That really helped. Meagan: It's actually really healthy. It's okay to do that. I did something very similar where I was like, “I love you and you're my people every day, but right now, you're not my person.” That's okay. I might have to accept that. I still love them, but they're not my people when it comes to talking about birth and having the support that I need. Petra: Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Meagan: That included some of my family members and that was really hard. Oh yeah. I felt that too because I wanted to share this journey with them, but since I knew that they were not going to be supportive, I was like, “You know what? I'm just going to do it and then afterward, I'll go, ‘Hey, look at what I did!'”I literally visualized my birth. This was one thing that I felt was pivotal. I would sit in quiet and calm and I would literally visualize every single part of my birth from start to finish. The labor, the pushing, and bringing my baby earthside. I would envision what it would smell like, what it would look like, who would be around me, and what it would feel like. The emotions I would experience once my baby came out and I was holding him on my chest. It makes me emotional thinking about it. Meagan: It's okay. We were crying on last week's episode too. Petra: It was so transformational for me because it wasn't just the fact that I gave birth vaginally. It was the fact that I believed in myself. I advocated for myself. I stood up for myself for what I believed in and as a recovering people-pleaser– I am a self-proclaimed recovering people-pleaser. I don't like to go against the grain. I don't like people to be upset with me. I don't like them to not like me. That was really, really hard but you know what?Meagan: Because you were doing all of those things– going against the grain, not pleasing people, not doing what they said, and maybe even shutting people out. Petra: Yeah. Yeah. It was really hard. I'm a very open and honest person, so like you said, shutting people out was hard because I wanted to share this beautiful journey with them. Fast forward to when I hired a doula because I researched all of the things and on one of your blog posts, it says, “How You Can Be Successful in Having a VBAC” and one of the things was to hire a doula. Yes. Get that support team. Meagan: Absolutely. Petra: Build your support team. So that's what I did. I hired a doula and she had never supported anybody with any VBACs but she was totally on board. She was like, “I'm totally with you. Let's do this.” I felt really confident in my support system that I had on board. Let's fast forward to labor. I had prodromal labor and it lasted from Friday night until I went to my next 40-week appointment which was on that Monday. I had prodromal labor for a couple of days.Meagan: That's exhausting. Petra: It is exhausting. I tried really hard to just get through it. I didn't want any interventions. That was my plan. I wanted to just go unmedicated and make sure nothing was introduced that didn't need to be introduced. So I went to my doctor's appointment. She was like, “Oh, are you okay if I check you?” I was like, “I guess so.” She was like, “Well, you're 2 centimeters. I can do a membrane sweep.” I was so tired. I originally didn't want that, but I was like, “Go ahead and do it.” Looking back, I wouldn't do it again, but at the time, plans can change. Meagan: Right. Plans can change. Yes. Petra: Yeah. So anyway, after that, oh my gosh. It was on. I was in full-blown labor after that. It was incredible. I was so excited and looking forward to my labor. I couldn't wait. I couldn't wait to be in labor because I knew I was going to do this amazing thing. I was in labor and I was like, “Oh my gosh. I'm excited.” My husband was like, “You're so weird.” It was painful. I had back labor which I wasn't expecting. That was intense. I even felt it through my thighs which I wasn't expecting either. I literally needed hip squeezes through every single contraction. But it felt manageable. I felt like I could handle it. I felt powerful through it. Between every contraction, I was smiling. I was laughing. I was having great conversations with everybody around me. I labored at my home and my family ended up coming. My mom, my brother, my sister. My nephew was there and my kids were there. Obviously, my husband was there too and it was beautiful. It wasn't planned that way. The plan was to labor at home, but all of my family coming that way was not planned and it was perfect. They were helping me. They were doing hip squeezes on me. They were talking to me between contractions and it just felt so blissful. It felt right. It felt perfect. I labored like that. 9 AM started the active labor and then by about 5-6:00 PM, it was mentioned, “Hey, should we go to the hospital?” We never talked about it beforehand when I wanted to go, but people kept asking, “Do you want to go?” It was pretty intense. I hit transition and I knew that because I was shaking when I was sitting on the toilet. Dilation station. Meagan: It's a real station. It does exist. Petra: Mhmm. I agree. Yes. Yes. After that, we headed to the hospital. I think it was 6:00 PM and then everything becomes a blur. We got to the hospital and immediately went up. They were like, “You can't be in active labor.” I was talking and laughing. They were like, “Okay, can we check you?” I was like, “Okay.” I can't remember what they said. I was either 9 or 10 centimeters. They were like, “Oh my gosh. How are you this far along?” Meagan: and chatting. Petra: Yeah. It was perfect. I was in the zone. Everything felt perfect. They got me into a room and we started doing different positions to try to help my back labor. At one point, they offered to break my water because I guess I had a bulging bag. At first, I didn't want that, but of course, in the moment, I was like, “I don't care, if you need to.” I was trying to focus on the task at hand. They did end up breaking my water and after that, everything was insanely intense. The contractions were more intense. They felt closer together and by 9:00 PM, I was like, “I need to push or I need to do something.” I just felt like I couldn't get comfortable anymore. I was like, “I'm going to start pushing.” I started pushing and they brought everybody in quickly. I was like, “Oh my gosh. Everybody is rushing in.” Then I pushed five times they said, and he flew out.Meagan: Oh, so everyone was seeing something and they were like, “Oh, this baby is coming.” Petra: Yes. Yes. I remember that they did bring the mirror in. They brought the mirror in real quick so I could see. I guess they were thinking it might take a little bit longer and I needed encouragement but anyway, no. It was really fast. I pulled him up out of me and onto my chest. It was like I literally manifested that birth because that's literally how I dreamt about it happening, literally. Meagan: Baby coming out, just flying out. Petra: Yeah. Yeah. No, it was perfect. After that, you have that oxytocin dump and I felt like I was in a dream. I was just so happy. I cried. I laughed. I was thanking God. I was like, “Oh my gosh.” It was so emotional and so beautiful. You know, the recovery is like night and day. I was up and walking, going to the bathroom and I didn't have an IV. I didn't have an epidural. I didn't have anything on board so I was able to just move and I was discharged less than 24 hours later. Meagan: That's the best. It's so nice when it can just be quick and you go home and can be in your space. Acclimate together. Petra: Mhmm. Meagan: So when they got there, I mean you were that progressed. You were really calm. Things were happening. Did anyone say, “Hey, we need to have the OB come in and talk to you,” or were they actually supportive? Because through this whole prenatal, you've been hounded as, “No, no, no. Why would you do such a thing?” I was just curious. Did they seem more supportive? Petra: Oh yeah. I didn't touch on that, but yeah. When I went in there and especially after they checked me, they were like, “Oh my gosh. Let's do this. Let's have a baby.” They were all excited. It was no doctor I had ever seen. It was a traveling OB so I don't even know where he was from but he was there on-call and then there was a student doctor. I don't know what he was but he was a student. He was actually the one who was there that helped bring my baby to my chest alongside my midwife. So yeah. There was a midwife there and then that training OB, they were together right there. Everybody was super supportive. My nurses were amazing. I will never forget her name. Her name was Brita. She was like, “I'm so proud of you. You're doing amazing.” She was so incredible. Of course, my doula was amazing too. She was helping me through everything and had all of the things with her that helped with lavender scents, keeping the lights dimmer, and just keeping that atmosphere calm and cool. My husband was there too. He's cool as a cucumber anyway. He's so go with the flow and afterward, we talked about it and he was like, “I was ready once those doctors were right there checking you. I was ready to jump in and be like, ‘She's having her VBAC!' but I didn't have to say anything. Everybody was so supportive and so sweet to you.” Meagan: Good. Petra: Then afterward, it was almost like I was a celebrity. Nurses were bringing other nurses in and they were like, “She was only here for two hours and she had her baby and she had three C-sections.” Yeah. It was amazing. Meagan: Do you know what you did? You changed their mental perspective. You changed a whole bunch of people's mental perspectives. Think about what you did for the student. VBAC after multiple C-sections, especially three, isn't widely studied because it's not happening. Petra: Right. Meagan: So for that provider to come and start right in the school world and training and be like, “Oh, actually I saw that happen and it happened really well and it was okay. Baby was okay. It is possible,” then maybe, just maybe– I don't know about that provider. Some providers that are in training don't even go to OB land, right? They are going to some other specialty and that is just their clinical, but hopefully, it will help some other future Woman of Strength who is going in and wanting that whether that be him or her or someone that they talked to, just changing the perspective. Look at what you have done. How amazing. You didn't just have a VBAC after three C-sections, right? Petra: No, it doesn't just feel like that. It feels like so much more. Honestly, I'm forever changed by this experience. Meagan: Absolutely. I understand that. Petra: It helped me. And honestly, I feel like even if I did have a C-section, I planned for it if I did end up having one. I had a plan set aside. I didn't put any energy towards it, but I had that plan just in case so I could have my preferences honored in that situation, but it helped educate me. I am so educated now. It threw me into the birth world. I had always been obsessed with birth, but I didn't know where I fit in. I went to school and was going to become a labor and delivery nurse, but once I got into the classes and everything, I was like, “This is not for me. This is not where I belong.” It just didn't feel right. I never knew about doulas. Once I had this experience, I was like, “I know where I belong.” This work sets such a fire off inside of me. Oh my gosh. I am supporting a couple of VBAC after two C-section clients right now. We are preparing for their birth and it's so exciting to me. I've never been so excited about work ever in my life until I hit this point. It's so amazing to see somebody switch mentally from being fearful to feeling empowered. It's not that I'm giving them that power. We all have that power inside of us. It's just somewhere along the way, it's been dimmed. I'm there to help them find that again. It feels so good when somebody is so confident in themselves and makes that transformation. No matter how their birth unfolds, they can feel good about it because they know that they are educated. They know what they plan for. It's not the fact that the plan goes exactly how you planned it. It's the fact that they educated themselves enough to be able to advocate for what they do or don't want. Meagan: Yes. Petra: That's huge. Meagan: Yes. I mean, I can relate on so many levels. It's crazy how the things you are saying, I'm like, “Oh my gosh. That was me. That was me.” I wanted to be a L&D nurse. I wanted to do that. I didn't even start the classes. I didn't even get to that. This is so bad to admit. I was like, “That's way too much math. Nope. I'm not doing that. No.” Then I had my second C-section and I wanted a VBAC. I was like, “Ugh.” I wasn't in a place where I was mad necessarily. I wasn't happy that I had a second C-section, but I wanted more. I wanted to support. I felt that desire. I felt that burning in my body that was like, “I want to help people.” Just hearing you talk, I'm like, “That was me.” That was me in 2014. I can just feel your energy so much and so will your clients. You're going to change your clients' lives. Like you said, no matter what the outcome is, they're going to feel supported and loved and educated along the way and that is powerful. Petra: Yes. Yes, exactly. That's what I'm here for. I feel like I'm here to just help be their cheerleader. You can do anything if you set your mind to it. I know that sounds so cliche. Meagan: I know, but it's true. Petra: Yeah. Yeah. It just makes me feel so good to know that I can help in any kind of way. I've always been this helper anyway. I've done in-home CNA work so my heart is in service. That's where I feel the best, so yeah. It's just amazing. I feel like also, the most important thing is just trusting yourself. Trust yourself to make the decision and not that it necessarily has to be the right decision to what everybody says is the right decision, but whatever feels right to you and staying true to yourself. We see all of these people on social media and it's easy to get caught up in what they're doing and it's staying authentic to ourselves and bringing that into your journey because not everybody's journey is going to be the same. I feel like that's so important to showcase, so yeah. Meagan: It is. Yes. I love that so, so, so much. I wanted to quickly talk a little bit about VBAC bans and multiple Cesareans, just what to do if you are in a situation like this. I feel like you touched on all of these things that you've done and I just love your journey. I love your journey so much. If you're running into a VBAC ban, and one of the things that you did too not necessarily for this purpose, get in contact with your local ICAN groups. See what information they have on local hospitals and their policies and see what they can do to help. Write a letter to the hospital. Write a letter to the state's medical board. I know that sounds crazy, but we are the ones who are going to be able to change this future.Doulas, we're loving. We're supporting. We're educating, but then also as VBAC parents ourselves, we have– I don't want to say a duty, but we have this power to start making a change by not letting every single provider bully you into something you know in your heart is not correct. To continue to reclaim that power and stop letting that light be dimmed as you were saying earlier, right? Petra: Exactly. Meagan: Let's light up the world. Let's light up the world. We have to light ourselves up first. We have to be fully lit before we can help others light. Petra: Yeah. I just want to touch on something real quick. The VBAC ban drives me insane. Meagan: Me too. Petra: They say they don't want to do it because they can't support an emergency situation for a VBAC, but what if a person goes in there in labor and she needs an emergency or if it's a true emergency situation and they can't give her a C-section? I'm sorry. That just doesn't sit well with me. I would go to a different hospital completely. Meagan: I know. I mean, ACOG recommends that VBAC is a great option for women and they can have it at any hospital location that is a level 1 facility or higher which is pretty much any hospital. Me too. I have such feelings about it. Such feelings. If you are a VBAC multiple Cesarean, check out our VBAC after multiple Cesareans blog. We'll make sure to attach it here in the show notes and it will go over some of the studies. What's hard is after two Cesareans, we don't really have a ton of really solid, hardcore evidence showing that your chances of rupture really do increase this much because it's not happening. It's not being offered. Look at how many providers shot you down. I'm a VBAC after two Cesareans and I went to 12 providers before I found the right provider for me. They didn't all necessarily say, “Absolutely not,” but they didn't necessarily say, “Yeah. Go for it,” either. They weren't cheering me on. It was, “Well, you can try,” or “Well, if you were my wife, I probably wouldn't suggest it, but I'm not their wife so sure. Go ahead.” It's so annoying that we don't have this information, but it is possible and you are living proof. Petra: Yes, definitely. Meagan: Oh, well thank you so much for being here and sharing your stories. Petra: Of course. Of course. I would be so happy if this touches just one person and it helps anybody. Meagan: It will. Petra: I would love to share my story with anybody. Anybody, feel free to connect with me. I just love talking about anything birth and VBAC. That is my heart's work. Meagan: Yes, well tell people where they can find you. Petra: Yes. I am on Instagram at Birthing Come True. The name comes from my birth coming true and also my website is birthingcometrue.com. If you basically type that in anywhere, you'll find me. Yeah. Meagan: Awesome. Thank you so much. Petra: Of course. Thank you for having me. I'm so happy to be there. Meagan: Absolutely. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

Kaitlin McGreyes is on a mission to teach parents what they really need for newborn life and the parenthood journey, without selling them baby clothes. Her brilliant company, Be Her Village, connects birth workers to parents, so that the experts can educate parents and leave them with a reimagined registry--one that's robust with all the items they actually need! Tune in to hear all about Kaitlin's journey into motherhood, her empowering birth stories and her *why* driving Be Her Village. Follow on IG: @behervillage www.behervillage.com __________________ Join ⁠(FREE) Supermama Support Circles⁠ ⁠Purchase Nip Gloss ⁠with code THANKYOU20 Want commission + discounts to kozēkozē products? ⁠ Apply here ⁠to be an affiliate and kozēkozē insider :) Sign-up for the kozēkozē newsletter ⁠⁠here.⁠⁠ Connect with our host on IG: @garrettnwood Follow kozēkozē on IG: @kozekozemama Podcast Instagram for details on past guests: @kozekozepodcast Follow Garrett on TikTok: @kozekozemama If you like Garrett's voice, check out her ⁠meditations here.⁠ email garrett: garrettkusmierz@kozekoze.com --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/kozekoze/message

In this 2nd episode of a 2-parter, Kaitlin shares her 2nd and 3rd babies' birth stories. After having a traumatic first birth, Kaitlin finds her voice and makes every effort to help things go differently. This includes finding a VBAC-supportive provider since she was aiming to have a vaginal birth after cesarean, seeking out lots of education and hiring a doula for support. She contrasts the ways in which her 2nd baby's birth was redemptive and empowering, and then shares her very efficient homebirth with her 3rd. Kaitlin explains how her experiences were what not only drew her to becoming a birth doula but also motivated her to start Be Her Village as a way to help birthing families access the support they need whether they can afford it or not through a gift registry for support and education.  Subscribe for email updates Show notes (transcript, resources, photos) Connect: Instagram | Facebook | Twitter | podcast@birthmattersnyc.com

Have you ever wondered if there's more to gift registries than meets the eye, especially for doulas navigating the world of maternal care?If you've been trying to figure out whether baby registries truly empower moms or subtly influence their choices, then get out a pen and paper, this episode is for you!Today I'm joined by Kaitlin from Be Her Village, who is sharing her insight and experience from building a gift registry for support to help families ask and shop for what will really serve them in birth and postpartum - way beyond the material things!In this episode, we dive into the following:Why baby gift registries as we know them are hurting more than they are helping…What kinds of things moms really need in birth and beyond…How doulas can support their clients in creating gift registries personalized to their needs...… and a whole lot more!If you're tired of feeling unsure about the impact of gift registries on expectant mothers, then you wanna listen up!Follow Kaitlin on Instagram: @behervillageVisit Kaitlin's website:  www.behervillage.comAre you feeling the call to Birthwork? I've got you covered! DM me “Impact” on Instagram and I'll share the details on how to get started.Ready to turn your in-person doula business into a crazy successful online business, too? I've got you. Click here and join me inside the Birthworker Membership.Don't forget to check out the blog post at www.birthworker.com/blog or follow along over on Instagram at @birthworkerpodcast for more. If these topics light you up, please rate and review the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you're listening from. After you review the show - snap a pic and upload it here - and I'll send you a little surprise as a thank you.Your feedback helps this podcast grow and I wouldn't be here if it weren't for you!

Today's story is the 1st episode of a 2-parter. In it, the founder of Be Her Village, a baby registry that provides a way to give the gift of support instead of far less important baby gear, shares her first of 3 babies' birth stories. Kaitlin's 3 births couldn't be more different from each other. In this episode, Kaitlin shares planning for a birthing center birth with midwives that shifted to a hospital induction and, ultimately, an unplanned cesarean. She shares how it was traumatic not because of the mode of birth, but largely because of the way she was treated. This first story lays the foundation for both why she made different choices for births 2 and 3, which will be shared in the next episode, and why she started Be Her Village as a way to help folks access the support they need for a great birth and postpartum period. Sneak peek into the next episode: she has a transformative, healing 2nd vaginal birth after cesarean (or VBAC) in a hospital with an OB and doula, and with her third a much faster labor and birth at home.  Subscribe for email updates Show notes (transcript, resources, photos) Connect: Instagram | Facebook | Twitter | podcast@birthmattersnyc.com

Listeners are treated to an enlightening conversation with Kaitlin from Be Her Village, an organization dedicated to nurturing strong support networks for expectant and new mothers. Through this insightful interview, Sarah and Kaitlin discuss the pivotal importance of emotional and physical support, shedding light on how individuals such as doulas and pelvic floor therapists play a crucial role in this transformative chapter of life. >> First Trimester Nutrition Guide >> #1 FREE Postpartum Download >> Pregnancy Workbook Connect more with Entering Motherhood: Instagram: entering_motherhood and sarah_marie_bilger Facebook: EnteringMotherhood Services: Birth and Postpartum Services Email: enteringmotherhood@gmail.com Official Affiliates of the Podcast: LoveHeld Kindred Bravely Postpartum University FOND Bone Broth (ENTERINGMOTHERHOOD for 10% off) Hypnobabies (MOTHERHOOD20 for 20% off)  FitNest Mama (ENTERINGMOTHERHOOD20 for 20% discount)

“Doulas are great. How do I get one?”‘Hope you're rich, bye!'“Wait, now I can't have one?”We are so happy to be joined once again by our friend, Kaitlin McGreyes with Be Her Village. Meagan and Kaitlin talk all about the benefits of doulas and what they love most about being doulas themselves. Not only that– they also talk about how to actually afford one. Every mama deserves continuous support during her labor and birth. Kaitlin has created the platform to make it a reality. Additional LinksBe Her Village WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsThe VBAC Link Facebook CommunityFull Transcript under Episode DetailsMeagan: Hello, hello you guys. It is Meagan from The VBAC Link and guess what? We have our friend, Kaitlin from Be Her Village, back. I am so excited to have you, Kaitlin. Kaitlin: I am so excited to be here, Meagan. Thank you so much for having me. I love this little friendship that has burst out of our VBAC love and our desire to get everybody their VBAC. Meagan: I know. Our passion around birth. It's just so cool to see how people from different parts of the world can connect so deeply. I just adore you and love you and I do hope that I get to meet you one day soon in person. Kaitlin: Oh, for sure. We're going to make that happen. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Last time we shared her VBAC story and this time we are going to be talking about doulas. So if you didn't know, we are both doulas. Obviously, we are very passionate and heavily involved in the birth world. We are going to talk about, okay great. That's wonderful. We know about doulas. Now what do we do? We are going to talk about that today so if you are wanting to know more about doulas, the stats around doulas, and how to pay for a doula, you want to hold on and listen to this episode. Review of the WeekBut of course, I have a Review of the Week so we are going to get into that and then we are going to talk all about wonderful doulas. This review is from txliberty92 and it was in 2020 and it says, “From Fear to Confidence.” It says, “When I found out that I was pregnant for the second time, I instantly felt so confused about how to birth this baby. I had heard so much conflicting advice about repeat cesareans and just wanted to hear the facts and hear from people who had been down this road before. I am now 36 weeks into my pregnancy and prepared and totally confident in my upcoming VBAC. I don't know if I would ever have gotten to this point without this podcast and community.” Oh, that makes me so happy. Txliberty92, if you are still listening, because that was in 2020. That was three years ago. If you are still listening, write us at info@thevbaclink.com and tell us how things went. And hey, we want to share your story. Be Her VillageMeagan: Okay. Let's talk about doulas. First of all, I think it's fun to talk about why us doulas become a doula because I know that when I was in high school, I knew I loved babies. I always wanted to babysit. I always wanted to be close to a baby, holding a baby, and then through high school, I was like, “I would love to be a labor and delivery nurse,” because hello, they get to be close to babies and hold babies all of the time, right? And then I started having babies of my own and learned more. I decided that I did love the idea of becoming a labor and delivery nurse but to be honest, I hate math. That's literally one of the reasons why I decided not to become a labor and delivery nurse because they have to do so much math. Kaitlin: There is so much math in nursing, yes. Meagan: So much math and I just hate it so much. For those listening, you guys, I actually had to take Math 1010 three times. Kaitlin: Oh my goodness. Meagan: That is how much I hate math. I hate it so bad. I suck at it. I hate remembering it and still to this day, I've been a doula for over 8 years and I still have a hard time. I have to Google how to calculate mpu's every single time because I hate math. So that is something that steered me away, but the thought of being able to love and support and educate and hold space for somebody and not do the math–Kaitlin: Sign me up. Meagan: It sounded amazing. It sounded so amazing. So through my first birth, after my undesired, unplanned C-section, I definitely had more of a passion for birth, and then after my repeat and learning more about doulas, I was like, “Yeah. This is it.” I remember the fire lit inside of me that day just like, “This is what I'm going to do. I'm going to love people. I'm going to support people. I'm going to educate people and let them know what their options are.” I have loved it ever since and I am so glad to be here today. So where did your fire ignite?Kaitlin: Oh my goodness. My fire ignited from my VBAC actually. I love that your story was like, “I always knew that I wanted to work with babies and mamas.” I had no idea. I was a special ed teacher in New York City. My husband still works as a special ed teacher in the school where we met when we were 22. That was the path. It was getting out at 3:00, working with kids, and feeling good. It was not being a maternal healthcare advocate at all. It was not doula work. It was not changing the baby industry. It was just not any of that. But then I went and I had a baby. My first birth, as you can listen to on the other episode, was on a spectrum from underwhelming on some days. I would reflect that it was underwhelming and other days, it was full-blown traumatic. It really depends on where I am in my head space. But it was kind of awful and the C-section wasn't what was awful about it. It was how people treated me. It was the powerlessness. It was being dictated to and people making decisions around me and not acknowledging me as a human being and as an adult, grown-ass woman who could make decisions about myself and my body. Meagan: We're having another human, right? Kaitlin: Right? How dare they. How dare they disempower me so quickly and then less than two years later, I had this incredibly different VBAC experience that was transformative before the baby ever came out of me. It had nothing to do with the vaginal side of it although that was amazing and kickass and I totally recommend it. But it was really about how I went in. I researched. I decided for myself that I wanted a VBAC first off. I hired a doula. I hired a VBAC-supportive provider, a doctor actually, and I just walked into that birth powerful and in charge. I ended up having a vaginal birth which was spectacular but that was the fire in me. It was sort of, “Wait a minute. How can I have two completely opposite experiences over the past two years?” So that was where I was just like, “I think the doula was a big part of it,” because I took childbirth education. I hired midwives. I did the things I was supposed to do and the doula, having someone in the moment when you're in that crucible where you're just being challenged and tested and you're in crisis, for many of us, and where you have this deep desire for your baby to be safe and for you to be safe yet you know. You know because you're listening to The VBAC Link. You know that this system is sort of rigged against us. How do you make sense of all that? The answer for me was in my doula. I knew that I needed to become a doula so that I could help more people. I have to be totally transparent. I definitely started out with a little bit of a savior complex. I was like, “If you hire me, I can save you from trauma,” which is not true or healthy for any of us. Meagan: It was probably you coping with your trauma. Kaitlin: Absolutely. There was this idea that my doula saved me in my birth so I could save somebody else. But it's true in that sure, we can have an incredible impact but we can't save anybody. You can't just hire a doula and like, “Okay, that's it. It's done.” You have to hire a doula and work with them and ask questions and still be very much an active participant in your care. The doula is the tool to learn how to advocate. The doula is the tool to set yourself up for success and that was why I got into it because I just thought, “Man, I have had two completely opposite experiences and I want to help more people have the second one, have the empowered one, have the voice, have built the team around myself.” So I thought, “I'm going to be a doula.” Little did I know how that would all end up but it's just amazing. It's the best thing there is. Meagan: Yeah, exactly. I would have never told you when I was becoming a doula, or it was nine years ago in September. Right now when we're recording, it's almost June. So almost nine years and I would have never said, “Oh yeah, in nine years, I'm going to have a podcast and be a VBAC advocate and educator and all of these things.” I never would have guessed that, but man. I am so grateful for this journey and where it's led us. You know, we talked about that. Doulas are there to help you. They're not there to rescue you. I think sometimes even I would say if I would be really honest. I was kind of like that too. I would have a client where they would be going in having these really deep goals and I was like, “I am going to make sure that happens.” I would go in and then sometimes if they didn't happen or if births went differently or we had unexpected events or something like that, I remember going home and I remember feeling like I failed as a doula. I felt like I failed them. Kaitlin: Yeah. Oh, it's a horrible feeling. Meagan: A really bad feeling. For your birth workers listening, it's important to know that you are there and you love your clients but we can't save everyone. Just like the clients that are hiring us need to know that we're not there to save but we're there to help educate, guide, love, and help you facilitate the things that you need along the way. It's just an extra crutch. Kaitlin: Yeah. I feel like it's really the work of labor and birth happens in the pregnancy. That's why you should get your doula as early as you can because it is in your doula's ability to help understand what your true desires are and help keep you connected to them because one of the things so many of us do and I'm speaking really about myself here too. I'm projecting my own experience. We abandon ourselves. We know what we want. We know that we want XYZ for our birth and then we sacrifice ourselves because as mothers, this is what we do. We sacrifice our time and our energy and our bodies for our babies but that gets used against us sometimes. It's really great to have somebody dedicated to your team that can sort of continue guiding the entire experience back to you back to those original goals, back to that original desire, and reminding you of what is possible and helping you stick to that. Then if you have to shift away from it, they are helping you navigate that shift in a way that feels intentional and purposeful and that you are emotionally able to shift as well so that we avoid that feeling of, “I don't even know what happened. I felt like I got hit by a bus and now I have a baby and I'm not sure how it happened.” We can't control a lot of things that happen in birth and doulas can't control them either which is a journey we go on as professionals. But we absolutely can help people navigate their births in a way that feels empowering regardless of the medical factors that end up happening. Meagan: Yeah. One of my favorite parts about being a doula is actually helping the partner along the way because I mean, obviously, Mom is the star of the show. She's having the baby and she's a very important person. She's definitely the MVP in that room but guess what? So are these partners. It's so fun like you said to circle around and help these partners feel more a part of birth as well because they sometimes have that same feeling where all of a sudden they are like, “Oh my gosh. My wife has a baby. What just happened?” So it's so nice to help dads and birth partners feel more involved and more connected and in control in a way of their own birth experience as well because it is their birth experience too. Kaitlin: Absolutely. I would argue that doulas are more for the partners in a lot of ways than they are for the birthing person. I personally didn't hire a doula for my first birth and I regret it. I can say pretty blatantly and bluntly that I regret it because I was afraid that it would take away the intimacy. I was afraid that it would be too many people and that I wouldn't have this intimate with my partner but what ended up actually happening is that my partner was so panicked by this mess of labor and by his wife being in so much pain. He wasn't of any help to me. I mean, he was as much help as he could have been. I'm not trying to attack my partner but he was really in this place of being a deer in the headlights. I was flipping out. He was a deer in the headlights. Everything was going wrong and he didn't have the tools. He had never done it before and that's in a birth that was very stressful. Even in a birth where you're not in a medically-induced place, it's still really hard to have the entirety of the responsibility of this experience to see your partner who is for the most part– this is a little stereotypical, but it's true– the women who are giving birth are making the lists and they're choosing the doctors. They're setting up their doulas. They're doing all of the things and they're making a birth plan. They're dotting every i and they're crossing every t and then what happens when they go into active labor? They retreat. Their minds retreat into their bodies and then all of a sudden, they're not communicating much of anything which can be really disorienting to a partner who feels to them that they need to keep their partner and their baby safe. This creates this feeling of alarm and can really not make the whole thing not feel good for everybody. When we have a doula that can come in for the partner and normalize the entire birthing experience whether it's in the hospital really medicalized or at home during early labor to transfer or have a home birth, it's so cool to have somebody who has walked this path before to be able to tell your partner, “Hey, this is all fine.” To have someone not react when you have somebody vomiting or contracting or shaking or all of these things that happen in the throes of labor, can be so relaxing. What is does is that it helps the partner then join his woman or his birthing person with intention and with this presence without all of the anxiety. It actually creates this beautiful expression of love. Not to mention, it's so cool to have someone show you how to touch your partner. One of them when I was teaching childbirth, I remember he was half joking but he was only half joking. He was like, “I just want you to teach me how far away to stand from her,” because he was just so nervous about the whole thing. It's like, imagine having someone come in and be like, “Hey, when she does that, just press here,” and it's like ooh. You get to learn and have a coach that helps you take on that care. It's the opposite of what so many of us think, myself included, was that a doula would replace my partner or get in the way. Really, what we do is help partners get more hands-on in such a helpful way. Meagan: Yeah. Exactly. My husband was really not keen on the idea of hiring a doula. He was like, “I'm not good enough? You're going to replace me?” That's where he snapped too. It's like, “Whoa, whoa, whoa. It's not like that.” But it wasn't until we had a doula that he was like, “Whoa. Okay. I see what you do as a profession. I love this and we would never do this again without one.” So yeah. Doulas are there for you. They're there for your birthing partner, but guess what, you guys? They have actual stats on how impactful doulas can be. That is so cool to me to think that there are stats on the profession that I do. It sounds silly. Kaitlin: It's science. It's science. Passionate science. It's science. Meagan: There are actual statistics that what I do and what I love is helpful. Okay, so let's talk about them. Doulas can decrease pain medication so epidurals, fentanyl, and stuff like that by 10% which seems little, but if you think about all of the people giving birth. Kaitlin: 10% is huge. Meagan: 10% is huge if you have 24-hour labor or more. I was 42. Yeah. It's wonderful. There's a 38% decrease in the baby's risk of a low 5-minute APGAR score. Kaitlin: And that, I really want to pause on that because that's a really big deal. The APGAR is your sign of life. That's literally like do you have muscle tension? Are you pink which means there's oxygen coursing? Do you have a pulse? It's literally, is this baby thriving? The APGAR is an enormous measure and what's wild about this is that doulas are not medical providers. We're not medical providers. I can understand the epidural being applied. It's like, “Yeah, we have some tools and tricks up our sleeve to help you manage pain. That makes sense to me.” But influencing an APGAR? This means that if you hire a doula, a non-medical provider, whatever magic thing that we're doing is not really magic. It's just being present and helping people advocate for themselves, can have health impacts on your baby. That's wild. Who we're not touching, who we're not making medical decisions on. We have no medical training and yet we're impacting medical outcomes. That's a big, big, big deal. Meagan: It's pretty stinking huge. In this study, it doesn't necessarily single out doulas. It's continuous support which guess what doulas do? Continuous support. Kaitlin: Yeah. Well, no other provider is doing that. Meagan: No. I mean, they're in and they're out. Midwives and OBs, we love them all. Kaitlin: Yes, we do. Meagan: But they can't. They can't. Kaitlin: The system is not set up for continuous support. Absolutely. Meagan: They can't. They might be in there for a little bit but then they're in and they're out. So a 31% decrease in the risk of being dissatisfied with the birth experience. Kaitlin: That's a big one. That's a big one. Meagan: You guys! 31%. So one of the things that I love about being a doula– I mean, there are a lot of things– but I want someone to walk away from their birth, even if it didn't happen exactly how they wanted on their birth preference sheet or birth plan, to have a good experience. I want them to look back and say, “You know, I didn't get this or that or this happened and wasn't my ideal but overall, that was an amazing experience and I'm happy with my experience and I don't reference my experience as traumatic,” and just have an overall better view on their birth. Kaitlin: That's the thing though. We all know there are uncontrollables but having respect and feeling in control and feeling like you were part of your birth in a powerful way has ripple effects and implications well beyond that day of your birth. That's a huge metric and that's really, really important. Meagan: Yeah, huge. Another one, I think, that is really cool is that they have one showing continuous support such as a doula can shorten labor by 41 minutes. Kaitlin: Um, yes. They shorten labor. They shorten pushing time and reduce your risk of C-section or surgical birth, forceps, or vacuum, up to 25%. I think there is a saying and I'll have to find the quote but it's like, “If doulas were a drug, it would be unethical not to use them. It is clinically proven that continuous support by a non-family member– that's the doula part, right?Meagan: Yes. Yeah, I want to talk about that. Kaitlin: Yes. Continuous support by a non-family member is wildly impactful not just on your emotional experience but on your pushing time, your laboring time, your surgical birth risk, and your baby's health. It's really something that every single person in the United States deserves to have. I also want to just put this other steed in here that doulas are not the cause of surgical birth. We are not the cause of longer labors or lower APGARs. We're not the root cause of these issues but we are one of the solutions that our healthcare system is looking at. It's hard to talk about this because I do want to talk about how doulas are awesome. Everyone should have a doula. Meagan: They're seriously so awesome. Kaitlin: But we are very much also a bandaid on a broken system so yes. We're all currently giving birth in this system so we all should have access to doulas and that's part of the work that we're both doing is getting people connected to the doulas in their area and getting people connected to the funding to pay for them because that's sort of the elephant in the room. It's like, “Okay. All of these doulas are great and they're highly impactful.” You listen to a podcast like this and it's like, “Oh, that's great. How do I get one?” It's like, “They cost $2000 out of pocket. Hope you're rich, bye!” It's like, “Wait, now I can't have one?” It's all a really messy stage in the American maternal healthcare system that we're in right now, but the idea of having a doula or not having a doula when you think about what we all think about as we are preparing for our birth is, “What's best for my baby?” It's best for your baby to have a doula-supported birth both for their health and for their parents' health and their parents' experience. If anyone's on the fence about it, I hope that this will spark you into researching and talking and looking into it because there are a lot of misconceptions about doulas. They are for everybody even if you are planning a C-section. Even if you're listening to this podcast because you're like, “I don't know. VBAC's not for me.” Even if you're listening because you're a hater. Doulas are for everybody. They're for every kind of birth. You can plan a C-section. You can plan an epidural. You can plan a home birth. You can plan a birth in the middle of the woods and a doula can be really instrumental in being an advocate for yourself throughout that. Meagan: Yes, and I have been to scheduled C-sections. I had two and I wish that I had a doula to be there. So I love that you were talking about, “Okay, wait. We know that doulas are awesome.” Sorry guys, but doulas are awesome. Kaitlin: But we are. Meagan: Okay, where do we find them? There are websites all over. You can search “Doula Near Me”. The VBAC Link has specific VBAC doulas. You just go to thevbaclink.com and search “Find a Doula”. Type in your zip code and boom.But yeah, then what? Then what? How do we pay for $2000 doulas? Kaitlin: Yes. $2000. I'm in New York. $2000 is kind of run-of-the-mill. Medicaid is covering $1900. They're paying out for doulas. That's just the cost of doulas in New York. It really varies according to market but it's expensive. If it's an $800 doula, then that means the salaries in the area and the cost of housing and everything else in that area is low. I think it's safe to say that it is a heavy lift for most people to be able to access a doula and not just a doula, but all of the other care that comes with it as well. Postpartum care, tongue tie clips, breastfeeding care, pelvic floor care, maternal mental health. How many insurance companies are covering those things? There's just an enormous amount of funding that needs to happen in order for us to get the care that we deserve, the baseline of care that is happening in other countries for other mothers. One of the things that I love to talk about because it's sort of my life's work–Meagan: Listen how to solve this problem!Kaitlin: Drumroll, please! It's really your baby registry. It's using Be Her Village which is what I created. It's our platform, our baby registry platform so that you can use this event where all of your loved ones are opening their wallets. They're going to buy you thousands of dollars of gifts. Literally, the stats are 12 billion dollars divided by almost 4 million babies. It's a lot of money, a lot of money being spent by communities and well-meaning, well-intentioned, so generous– everyone wants to support a new mother. Everybody does. But right now, you can just go to baby stores and get a bunch of baby stuff. I don't know. We've all bought gifts before and I guess the swaddles can help but it's not the same as knowing that this gift is going to be impactful. One of the best things that we've done is we've created this platform where you can register for and find the practitioners in your area– the doulas, the lactation consultants, the pelvic floor specialists, the childbirth education, the acupuncturists– everybody who is supporting mothers in their birth and their postpartum time. You can find them and add them directly to your gift registry.Your friends and family can send you funds, cash, cold-hard cash to pay for them so it's totally flexible. We've had $165,000 funded on our platform so far just from communities who are generously opening up. It is such an amazing tool and funding opportunity that is already happening. We already know about baby showers. They're happening. We already know how to use a gift registry. What if we use it to pay for doulas? What if we use it to pay for that care? It's really, really cool so I just highly recommend every single person that's listening to go to Be Her Village. Click on our shopping guide. Click to get started. If you're a doula, add your services there. We're reclaiming the baby shower because the baby shower has become this place where we get carloads of boxes where we get all of this stuff. For me, I had to haul it back to my tiny apartment. I'm like, “Where am I going to fit all of this stuff for my baby?” I was living in New York City at the time and we're really saying, “You know what? Moms need stuff for their babies, sure. We'll find them and how to pay for them but there's this real need for care for ourselves.” It's like the conversation we just had. Who doesn't want a doula after listening to that? Who doesn't want a doula after knowing the stats of how impactful it can be? What better gift than to say to someone, “Hey, I'm going to help you find that so you can have a better health outcome and so you can have a better experience so your entire transition into motherhood can feel better than it would have otherwise.”Meagan: Absolutely. I'm going to pull it up. Seriously, it's so easy. This website is so incredible. You can go and create your registry. You can shop for services. You can give your gifts. Anything, right here. Also, there is virtual. That's something too. Doulas and birth workers, if you are offering virtual courses, help people find your course so they can get more educated. They can go more prepared. There are tons of virtual services. You can go in. There's childbirth education. There's a fourth trimester. There's restoring your body. There's heart and mind. You guys, this is such an amazing platform. To say I'm obsessed is an understatement. It really is an understatement to say how much I love this platform and how genius you are for creating this space for people. I didn't hire a doula with my second baby because get this. You're going to laugh out loud. Everyone's going to die. I thought that $150 was too much at the time. Kaitlin: Oh gosh. Meagan: We didn't have a lot of money. Kaitlin: I get it. Meagan: Yeah. Kaitlin: Meagan, it's all so backward. We have our babies when we're making the least amount of money. Then when we have a baby, for many of us, you stop working. At least temporarily, if not for a long time. Meagan: You do. Yes. Kaitlin: You get squeezed financially and at the earliest time in your career. You're barely established and who wants to wait to be established? I'm 39 and I don't even feel established right now. But it shouldn't be that we have to choose how much care we receive because of our income level or because of the disposable income that we have. It's not enough. My doula cost $1200 and that was nine years ago. It was the same amount as my mortgage. Meagan: Right. Kaitlin: It was a huge lift for us but luckily, I knew. I was so driven for the VBAC. Actually, my VBAC approach was to do everything the opposite. I didn't take the childbirth education. I hired an OB instead of a midwife. I hired a doula instead of not. But it's a big, heavy lift and we have to start thinking about not just, “Can I afford it?” but “I deserve this. How do I do this?” So we have to be more creative as a collective. It's really cool. This baby shower is sort of this untapped area that we've just been going to for decades. You go. You buy the stuff at the store. You give it to parents. They return half of it. It's this thing that we're doing on repeat and I think it's time for some serious evaluation about, “What do we actually need? What does a mother actually need?” If you were to make a list, which we do. We have the top ten things you need on your registry and none of them can be found at a store because it's all about support and care from the community which often looks like professionals as well as friends and loved ones and family members and neighbors. Meagan: Absolutely. I am so grateful for what you do. I encourage everyone. If you are looking to hire a doula and you're just not sure or the funds are hanging over or maybe a postpartum doula. Maybe you're really needing that support educationally or whatever it may be, this is the place for you to go and check out. You could even hire a birth photographer if you're wanting to capture your birth. I mean, you guys. They have everything. So definitely, definitely, definitely check them out at behervillage.com. We're going to make sure to have all of the links in our show notes. Go to Instagram. Follow Be Her Village. You're amazing and I'm so grateful for you. I'm so grateful that your births have taken you on this journey honestly, just like I have with mine. It's such an honor to be sharing this space and this beautiful community with you. Kaitlin: Thank you, Meagan. I feel the exact same way. I'm really, really grateful for you. As much as I hate that we have had these hard birth experiences, it's all worthwhile because of how we are using it and how we're using it to help the next person, so thank you for that. Meagan: Thank you. ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

This is one of the most incredible people and companies we have come across. Be Her Village is all about supporting mom so mom can support baby. In this episode, Kaitlin goes into why it is so important to support moms with the necessary support, not just tangible items for the baby, and how her company is doing just that.Happy ListeningFind Kaitlin:https://www.behervillage.com/https://www.instagram.com/behervillagehttps://www.facebook.com/behervillageAffiliates/ Sponsors:Dame 10% off:http://mght.co/EVERYTHINGSFDBlendJet 12% offhttps://zen.ai/efpod12Leave a VM:https://www.speakpipe.com/EverythingsF_ckedPodcastSocial and Linkshttps://www.instagram.com/ef_ckedpodcast/https://linktr.ee/everythingsfuckedpodcast

If your services support pregnant or postpartum moms, you need to listen in! In an age where mothers are showered during their pregnancy with gifts for their baby, why are we not showering them with support for themselves? Kaitlin McGreyes is changing that mindset through Be Her Village, a baby registry tool that helps parents register for support, care providers, and services that will support them as a parent. The best part? You can get on the registry as a provider! Review full show notes and resources at http://mollycahill.com/podcast Mentioned in this Episode Holistic Marketing Hub - Use code PODCAST for $100 OFF Mentioned in this Episode Holistic Marketing Hub Be Her Village Episode 14 Connect with behervillage.com instagram.com/behervillage

You know how those people that come into your life, where the conversation just flows and things just instantly connect? That is Kaitlin McGray for me. Kaitlin is the founder of Be Her Village where they create registries for pregnant people, to have doula services, postpartum doula, birth doulas, lactation consultants, and other services so that mothers can have all kinds of support while connecting birth professionals with mothers who are pregnant.   In this episode, we dove deep into:  How she's operating in motherhood  The importance of working on ourselves as we navigate parenting little children Being an example to our kids especially on learning to love our bodies And we also talk about what it means to be selfish and prioritizing yourself    I think you're really gonna enjoy this conversation because we went pretty deep. Enjoy!  Connect with Kaitlin:  https://www.instagram.com/behervillage/ https://behervillage.com/ Show links: Motherhood Decoded Mini Retreat (Friday 5/5 Tampa, FL): https://fb.me/e/4nf76abvu NEW Content course happening NOW inside of the Evolutionary Business School: https://members.nicholejoy.com/online-business-school-membership AND in the brand new: The Portal All-Access Pass https://nicholejoy.kartra.com/page/theportal Apply for Private Light Mentorship: https://nicholejoy.kartra.com/page/applicationprivatelight

We are so excited to have Kaitlin McGreyes from Be Her Village here with us today! Kaitlin began Be Her Village as an avenue for women to register for birth services instead of typical baby shower gifts to help support their transition to motherhood. Kaitlin shares how through her Cesarean and VBAC stories, she learned how to become an empowered and active participant during birth. Kaitlin and Meagan also answer a burning question. What is the real formula for how to have a successful birth outcome? Research, research, research, then trust yourself to make choices that are best for YOU!Additional LinksKaitlin's WebsiteHow to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for ParentsThe VBAC Link Facebook CommunityFull Transcript under Episode DetailsMeagan: Hello, hello you guys. It is Wednesday or maybe Friday or Thursday or Tuesday, whatever day it is that you are listening, today is Wednesday when we are recording The VBAC Link Podcast. I've been a little giddy for this episode because we have our friend Kaitlin. She and I connected. She is with Be Her Village and we actually connected two weeks ago. Maybe a week ago, a little bit ago. We got off the phone and we both felt the same feeling, this energy. Can we just be best friends? That's what you were saying. We're best friends. It's just so fun. We definitely have very similar passions and drives for the birth community and VBAC and all the things. She has a story of her own today that truly led her to where she is right now which I think is one of the biggest things that relates the two of us because my journeys led me to where I am right now at my desk recording this podcast and serving this VBAC community. So I'm going to introduce her a little bit more in just a moment, but we do have a Review of the Week. Review of the WeekThis was actually sent via email as well. We got two emails back to back about reviews. Just a reminder, if you have not had a moment to leave a review, please do so. We love them. They mean the world. Our team loves reading them. You can leave them on podcast apps like Apple or Google. You can send us a social media message on Facebook or Instagram or you can be like Daria did and she sent it to us via email. That is so wonderful as well. She says, “I just wanted to leave a review of my favorite podcast. It's almost an obsession at this point. I had a C-section with my twins almost two years ago and am currently pregnant with baby number three. I'm writing in March as I listen to your podcast on my walks and get ready for VBAC as much as I possibly can. I can't describe how much valuable information and most importantly inspiration it gives me. Maybe it's just pregnancy hormones but I swear I cry every time I listen to moms describing the emotional moments of their birth stories. Nothing feels more precious to me at that moment. I am dead set on having a VBAC in August and all of the episodes of the podcast give me extra encouragement and strength to advocate for myself. I religiously listen to every new episode and maybe I'll get to hear this review soon.”Yes, you will. It is coming up soon, just before your VBAC actually, Daria. It says, “Look out for my next email in August with hopefully a successful VBAC story. Thank you so much again for everything you do for women all over the world.” Oh my gosh. Then she says, “P.S. English is not my first language. I'm from Ukraine but I hope my English is fluent enough to reflect my feelings.” Oh my gosh. Kaitlin, is that not just an amazing review?Kaitlin: I really just feel it. I'm sitting here getting ready to tell my story and I'm getting teared up about the fact that the people listening are in my position right before I had my VBAC. It's such a place of unknown. It's such a place where you need support. It's such a place where there are so many forces working against us unfortunately and the fact that this podcast and my story might help someone in their preparation. It might impact them. It might be what they need to hear to stay and get furiously determined. Oh my god. I love it. I want to give her a hug.” Meagan: I know, right? I just want to squeeze her and say, “I love you. I love you. Yes, you can. Yes, you can advocate for yourself. Yes, you can do the things that so many people in this world believe are unachievable.” It makes my heart so sad to know that there are so many people out there that want a different experience and are told they can't or are told it's not possible. Yeah. I love that you're here. I love that you're in this space. I cannot wait for your email in August myself. Kaitlin's StoriesKaitlin: Oh my goodness. I am so excited. Let's get her her VBAC. Meagan: Yes! Let's do this. Yes. You get so invested Kaitlin. It's so amazing. You get so invested in this community. These people are writing and are like, “Hey, I have a question.” By the way, if you didn't know, you can always email us at info@thevbaclink.com and write us your questions. We love speaking with you. We love doing consults. We love doing all of these amazing things to connect with you and to build you up whether that be through a consult or the blog or just an email or this podcast or our VBAC course. Whatever it may be, we want to help you through your journey.Kaitlin: It's amazing. What you guys are doing, I'm so excited to even be here. This is the work. I've been a doula. I've helped so many people achieve their VBACs and witness them. I've literally been in the room with them, but this platform and everything you've created with it is helping so many people. It's so powerful to have this narrative change. It's so powerful for us to tell our stories and counter what the doctors are telling us, counter what maybe other people in our families are telling us. This fear and this risk and this, “How could you be so irresponsible to think about a vaginal birth? How selfish?”I don't know if we're allowed to curse here, but that is what drives me and that is so powerful to be like, “Nope. I did it. I trusted myself. I trusted my body. My body is not broken. I can do this with the right support, the right advocacy, and a little bit of luck.” Not going to lie, there is a little bit of luck in there. We can do this. That's such an incredible message that we need to keep spreading again and again and again. How awesome is this? Meagan: Oh my gosh. I couldn't agree more. Okay, you guys. We have Kaitlin and if you can't already tell, we just are so passionate about birth and options and birth workers and all of the things. I'm so excited and honored to have you, Kaitlin, on this podcast. You guys, she is the founder of Be Her Village. Be Her Village. Definitely go check it out. She started doula work in 2014 which, you guys guess what? So did I. I didn't know that until actually just barely. We started around the same time. She is so passionate about creating access to maternal care for all. She has a gift registry on this Be Her Village. You guys, it's a platform. It is literally– actually, I'm going to let you talk about it because it is literally amazing and genius. Genius. Kaitlin: Thank you. Meagan: It is such a great tool for people because I'm sorry. I love all baby clothes. I love my baby clothes so much. Kaitlin: I love baby clothes too. I don't tell anybody that, but I also love baby clothes. Meagan: I do, but after my two Cesareans specifically, actually even after my VBAC, luckily my husband was in a situation where he could be with me. He was home all of the time so we had the support but he could have even used some support. I loved all of those cute little baby gifts, but to have some resources or to have that doula that I wanted to hire with my second but my husband was like, “We can't afford it. I don't like the idea.” Right? Tell us about what you are doing with Be Her Village. Kaitlin: Awesome. Absolutely. First of all, thank you for having me. Meagan, I just love you. I love what you are doing. Everyone who is listening, thank you for this space to tell my story. Be Her Village is just my answer to having a baby and having this perfect nursery surrounded by all of the gifts, all of the wonderful, generous things that my friends and family showered me with, and actually having nothing I needed. Just feeling completely alone, being post-C-section because I didn't have a doula. I couldn't afford a doula. I didn't know that I needed a doula. That wasn't the norm. I was just surrounded by all of these gifts and had none of the support. Breastfeeding was hard. The C-section recovery was hard. Life with a newborn was hard. It's just difficult. What I've realized is that our community has so much love to give. They've sort of been tricked into this idea that all I need is stuff. We need stuff.Meagan: Wipe warmers. Kaitlin: Yeah, wipe warmers and seventeen different bouncers.Meagan: You don't really wipe warmers. Yeah. Kaitlin: It's a little extra. I feel like we can get all of the stuff in the baby nursery. You can get a whole baby's store worth of stuff and you're still going to need some support for yourself as a mother. So I thought of Be Her Village. I was like, “Why don't we connect parents with doulas and why don't we give doulas, lactation care, postpartum care, and pelvic floor visits as baby shower gifts?” What an incredible gift to be like, “I'm going to help you get your VBAC. Here's a doula to help you advocate for yourself. Here's a pelvic floor provider so you can get back to running, Cross Fit, or exercise,” which for many of us is a mental health tool. What about impactful gifts that actually care for the mother so she can take care of herself and her baby?Meagan: Yes. Yes. This is something Julie and I did when we were together hundreds of episodes ago saying that you can afford a doula because we are huge advocates here for our doulas. Clearly, we've seen the impact and we just know this impact, but we talk about asking for money towards something else. You don't have to. But this is an actual tool and resource where it is easy to do that. It is easy to do. It is easy to register for that. It's incredible. I'm obsessed with it.Kaitlin: Thank you. Meagan: I'm obsessed with you and I just can't wait to one day actually finally meet you in person. Kaitlin: Oh for sure. Meagan: Yes. Just yeah and just to see you grow because this is so amazing. Women of strength, we understand. We understand that finances are not always in a place to have a birth doula, a photographer, a lactation consultant, a postpartum doula, and a PT pelvic floor or to give birth out of a hospital and all of these things. We know that these things cost. We know that they do but I'm telling you right now there is serious value in this and it is honestly so amazing to have a doula or support versus a baby wipe warmer or one extra pair of newborn onesies. Kaitlin: Yeah. I want to provide insight into that. It's not just that it feels good to moms because that's something that we're not always comfortable with. “I'd rather get something for my baby. I don't need to feel good. I can do hard things.” And we can. We can do more than we know. But using a doula reduces your chance of a C-section. Using a doula reduces your chances of an episiotomy which is where they cut your perineum. It reduces the chance of forceps use or vacuum use. It reduces–Meagan: Time in labor. Kaitlin: Time in labor which I'm like, “Just sign me up right there. Are you kidding? Forget about it.” Meagan: Labor can be shortened by at least 41 minutes. Kaitlin: And you know what? It's more than just the shortness of the labor, it shortens pushing time and it increases the APGAR score of the baby which is literally the baby's health upon being born. There are just so many things that a doula does. It's not a promise that one doula will do that for you but collectively when people line up doula support, their outcomes, and their baby's outcomes are better. If you're thinking about a VBAC which I'm guessing you are if you're listening to this, you need to get a doula. You need to think about a doula. It has always been this thing that I personally even as a doula felt uncomfortable saying and recommending because how can you say, “Hey, doulas are vital. Sorry, you don't have $1000.” Meagan: Or more. Kaitlin: Or way more. It's such an uncomfortable conversation. That's why I created Be Her Village because 12 billion dollars are spent on baby gifts every year for baby showers. It's like, “Well maybe the generosity exists. Maybe the love exists and maybe the money exists. We just need to create a platform where people can line up their doulas and ask for them for their baby shower gifts.” That's exactly what we did and we've had over $135,000 gifted on Be Her Village directly to parents. They're getting the gifts. They're getting the support and it's literally the coolest thing in the world. Meagan: It's so amazing. Kaitlin: It's just so cool to see it come to life and to have people find out about it, then literally get better gifts that are taking care of them and improving their entire experience. Unfortunately, it's because I needed it. I wish I could go back in time and do it again which is something we really often hear is, “Oh my god. Where was this when I was having my baby?” Meagan: Right? That's why I'm here right now. I needed more. I felt alone in so many ways preparing for my VBAC. Everyone looked at me and was like, “What? You're doing what?” I'm like, “Yeah. I want to push a baby out of my vagina. Why does that seem so weird?” Because I had that Cesarean, everyone was like, “No, you can't do that.” I'll tell you what, when I came around to that second C-section and was wanting to have a vaginal birth, it was even more mindblowing to people. It felt very lonely and cold. I was like, “No. No.” There wasn't a lot of inspiration. Facebook was going on and there were stories being shared but there wasn't inspiration like what we have today. There wasn't a lot of knowledge in one spot so that's why we're here today. Kaitlin: I have to say that one of the things too, and there is so much to talk about, but this is actually part of my birth story too so it's such an interesting place to begin. I think people legitimately think that vaginal birth and Cesarean birth are equally risky or quite honestly even the opposite. They think that vaginal birth is more dangerous than Cesarean. It's like, of course. If that's the underlying held belief, the subconscious belief is that vaginal birth is risk and Cesarean is not, then of course, Meagan, why would you do that? Why would you risk your life and your baby's life just to have a vaginal birth? You don't get an award for that. I'm just imagining what these people are thinking. Meagan: They would say that. Kaitlin: You don't get an award and it's like, “Well, hold on a second. What if we actually find out where the risk lies?” That was something. I was not set on a VBAC. Not at all. I was totally disappointed. I was probably the least impactful word I could use but there was just a defeated feeling about my C-section. I just felt like, “Oh, that wasn't really what I wanted.” I also went into my VBAC birth, my second pregnancy sort of like, “I'm not going to take unnecessary risks for my baby or for myself just to get the VBAC badge or the vaginal birth experience.” You have to balance your desires with what's risky and what's safe. So I didn't research. I remember one of the things that stood out for me was that I had this vision of– and I'm sorry. Get your earmuffs ready. This might trigger somebody. But I had this vision of vaginal birth ending in hemorrhage and being very, very, very scary and very dangerous. I don't know. This is what you see in the movies. So I didn't research this. I don't know if you know this Meagan. I'm so excited if I can share this with you for the first time but vaginal birth hemorrhage is 500 ccs of blood loss. Cesarean normal blood loss in a totally run-of-the-mill, we-did-a-great-job, there-was no-extra-bleeding Cesarean, is 1000 ccs. It's double. Meagan: Yes. Kaitlin: As soon as I realized that, I was like, “Oh. We're not talking about the same thing. Everyone talks about vaginal birth and C-section on this leveled playing field and we are not in the same ballpark.” That is incredibly risky when it goes normally. It is twice as risky as when a vaginal birth goes horribly wrong. To me, it's like, “Oh, we're not even in the same stratosphere.” It's a completely different thing. I think once we start talking in facts and figures and we start really sharing that, it takes so much of the fear away. The fear can be such a big monster to deal with when we're talking about VBAC because it's scary. There are unknowns. Every pregnancy is a little scary because fear is what drives us but if you walk away with one fact from this podcast, just know that it is not the same thing. It's not even close to the same thing. Meagan: It's not. It is not. It isn't. Even with vaginal birth after a Cesarean, yes. There are risks to having a vaginal birth after a Cesarean, but it's also not the same thing. There are also risks for a second Cesarean, a third Cesarean, and a fourth Cesarean, and the risks are pretty substantial. It's important and I encourage you if you are preparing to actually look at the pros and cons of both sides. I also want to point out that sometimes the cons of a vaginal birth might make you be like, “Yeah, I don't want to do that. That's actually not what I feel comfortable with. That's not what my heart says.” And that is okay. Also, know the risks and the cons of the other side. So know the pros and the cons of both vaginal birth, vaginal birth after Cesarean, and vaginal birth after multiple Cesareans. Know those risks. Dial in and decide what risk is applicable, safe enough, and comfortable enough for you. My risk, I live a little bit more on the edge. I have jumped out of a plane multiple times and I have a friend who thinks that is the scariest thing and she won't do it because she has children. She fears the risk of dying. I totally understand. Kaitlin: I'm like, “I would VBAC every day of my life and I will never jump out of a plane. They are not the same risks.”Meagan: Right? So not the same risks to you and to me. So I'm like, “Yeah, my risk is nothing. It's not enough for me to not jump out,” and you're like, “Yeah, no. I'm not doing that.” So it depends. There are benefits and risks to both sides. You have to decide what is best for you. What risk is impactful enough for you to make that decision? Know that it's okay if you are not making the decision that Sally is making. It's okay. It doesn't make you any less of a woman of strength. It doesn't make you any less of a mother. Nothing. You're not failing your body. You're not failing your baby if you make one choice or another. Kaitlin: Absolutely. The big thing is that you have to get that information so that you know the right information so that when you have to go talk to a doctor and they write you off and say, “Nope. We do repeat C-sections because it's risky,” that you actually know what they're talking about and you actually know whether you are at risk or not because there is a much bigger picture than what you might get at a standard OB's office. Meagan: Yes. Absolutely, so this information is so important. Cesarean Awareness Month is April and one of the biggest things that a lot of say are, “So are we promoting Cesareans?” It's not that we are promoting Cesareans, it's that we are promoting information about Cesareans, VBAC, and your options. Even though Cesarean Awareness Month is in April, every month is Cesarean Awareness Month in my mind. Every single month and every single day is information that we need to be sharing, that we need to be getting out there because women of strength, you need to know these stats and these facts so that you can make the choice that is best for you. Kaitlin: Yes. Oh, I love that. Meagan: I don't know exactly all of the choices and the things that led up to your Cesarean but for me, I didn't know. I walked in. I was uneducated, you guys. I was young. I was 22. I just knew I was going to have a baby. I went to the same doc that my mom did who delivered me via Cesarean coincidentally and all of these things. I just didn't know. It takes knowledge. It takes time. It takes time. If you are willing to put in that time, you will likely, even if it ends in a Cesarean, feel better about your outcome and carry on with your life. Kaitlin: Yeah, and that VBAC prep, I don't think anyone here is anti-Cesarean. It's such an interesting thing to point out because there's nobody out there that is saying– April is not an anti-Cesarean month. Meagan: No. It's awareness. Kaitlin: It's awareness so that you can go in with intention, with a conscious choice, and with the information you need. You know what? I went through a whole research phase. I was not sure that VBAC was for me. I wasn't because I wasn't sold one way or the other, but the ability to have a choice is everything. That is where your power comes from. It's not from being the loudest, the strongest, the fastest, or even having a VBAC. It's about getting there on your terms. I know people who have had surprise VBACs believe it or not. I should send her to you. A surprise VBAC was not planned and she was kind of traumatized by it because she was planning a repeat C-section. She didn't go through that prenatal that a lot of people listening are going through of, “Okay, so what are my options and how do I step into my path here?” Whatever that path might be, there's a lot of power and a lot of healing in whatever birth you have, but unless you do that work of identifying your choices and not just your risk assessment but also your practitioners and lining yourself up with support, then you're going to be sort of that passive participant. I think, not all of us, some of our C-sections come after being active, but with a lot of us, myself included, there was this passivity where as soon as I hit the hospital, I was stripped of my power, stripped of my clothes, stripped of my humanness, and told to lay back flat. Keep the baby on the monitor. Here's your medication and boom. That's a C-section. It all happened to me and I wasn't actively there. That was a big part of what changed for me. I felt like I benefited from my VBAC whether I had a C-section or vaginal birth. For the record, I absolutely asked for a C-section as soon as I hit transition. I said to my doula, “Okay. I'm done. I'm done with this. Can we just get a C-section?” I'm really glad I asked my doula and not my OB. Meagan: Right? Right? Your doula and your team were probably like, “Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Let's give her ten minutes.” That is a very normal thing too to say. We need to hear your stories. Let's hear them. We could chat forever. But let's hear these.Kaitlin: Oh cool, okay. I know. We're already halfway through. I can give you a quick synopsis of the C-section because I feel like it's always relevant when we're talking about VBAC. My C-section was a 41-week induction, the oldest story in the book. Mine was a little bit interesting because I actually planned an out-of-hospital birth and I planned a midwife-supportive birth. I got a little bit of the bait-and-switch. It's a little spicy because in New York where I was giving birth at the time, midwives could not own a birth center. Now they can, there has been a huge push in legislation on that but at the time, I was told that midwives were in charge of my care and they were not. They were on the phone with an invisible OB I had never met. I did not know he was calling all of the shots. I always start off by saying that I planned an out-of-hospital birth with midwives. I thought I was doing all of the right things. That is part of what makes me feel a little extra angry about my treatment because I thought I was doing the right thing and I wasn't. Meagan: They never told you that you were actually under an OB umbrella?Kaitlin: Nope. Everything was midwife-facing. It was really disingenuous the way that they did that and then basically at the 41-week appointment, literally, an OB was on the phone with them in their ear telling them it was time to induce and I was sent to the hospital for an induction. I didn't know that was the bad part. It's only sort of upon reflecting and becoming a doula and realizing that, “Wait. They were never really in charge.” Meagan: You never actually had the midwife you thought you had. Kaitlin: No. I was not in midwifery care. I had a midwife mouthpiece for an OB. Meagan: Oh my gosh. Kaitlin: That wasn't great. It's also awful because that's the only birth center in New York. New York state is so far behind the rest of the country in a lot of ways and birth centers are definitely one of them. I want as a doula, in my heart of hearts, I want to recommend birth centers but I can't recommend that one because of the way that they behaved and their ownership. So I went to the hospital and it was alarming to me how fast the power was stripped away. My voice– my midwife dumped me there and left me there. This is crazy to say because I'm such an advocate and I've doula'd people through so many things that to say I allowed this for myself is kind of amazing. I was given Cytotec, a double dose of Cytotec in the C-section recovery room. That's where they sent me because I was in this busy Brooklyn hospital and I was set up with Wendy, the nurse, who I hate. I still remember Wendy. These people become bigger characters in your story. Meagan: They do. Kaitlin: Because they stay with you. But anyway, long story short, I went from nothing eating a sandwich with my family to absolutely full-blown, every three-minute transition level contractions. I couldn't move. She wouldn't let me move off of my back. I felt like a trapped animal. I ended up getting the epidural because my whole birth plan was out the window. Meagan: Oh, I'm sure. Kaitlin: I was like, “Why am I torturing myself?” and the baby didn't respond well to the epidural. His heart rate went down and I just looked at my team. They all looked very nervous and I said, “What are we doing here?” She said, “The OB is going to come to talk to you in about 45 minutes.” I'm like, “This baby is actively in distress.”Meagan: But your baby is not doing well.Kaitlin: Actively in distress. The OB was going to come in 45 minutes. I looked at her and I say this, the only reason this is okay is because I said it. I would never say this to another person but I looked at her and I said, “I want a healthy baby. I want a healthy baby at the end of this.” I say that because it's really toxic to be like, “At least you had a healthy baby.” It's like, “Okay. I get to say.” What I was trying to say to her in the fog of the labor was, “After all of this misery and all of this horrible treatment, at the very least I would like a baby that's alive and handed to me.”So I did. I got a C-section. It was scary. It was cold literally and otherwise. It was not what I wanted. It was not the ending that I wanted. I ended up in my house. My husband was back at work. He didn't have literally any time off and he was back at work the day that I was released from the hospital two days later. It was just underwhelming. It was not how I wanted to enter motherhood. Meagan: No. Kaitlin: In the least. I felt like besides the physical– the physical recovery was horrible and I recovered really well but it was just so intense. It's major surgery. I also just felt disempowered. I felt highly anxious. I didn't realize it until later that it was postpartum anxiety but I was just so set off-kilter by the whole experience. It just took my power and my voice and my strength away from me and then handed me a baby and a C-section scar. I was like, “Oh. That's not how I thought motherhood was going to go.” Meagan: Oh my gosh, yeah. That's hard and being alone. Oh, man. Kaitlin: Yeah, being alone. Meagan: It started your journey off really intensely. Kaitlin: It was really hard. Then when I had my second, I just knew it needed to be different. I knew I needed to do more research. I actually, this is funny. I did everything the opposite. I planned hospital birth. I planned an OB birth. I hired a doula. Everything I didn't do, I did the opposite. But the thing I did along the way was that I was really intentional about all of my choices. I found the doctor that does VBACs where I live. There's a handful of them and I found Jessica Jacob at North Shore. She does a lot of Orthodox Jewish women who see her. That's her practice. A lot of those women have 6, 7, 8, and 9 babies so when they have a C-section if the thing is “once a C-section, always a C-section,” that can result as we talked about earlier, that can result in really dangerous situations. So she specializes in VBAC, vaginal births, and preventing those primary C-sections.So I went to her. I had done my own research and then I went to her and said, “Knowing my story and looking at my chart, am I a candidate?” She said, “Absolutely.” I was like, “Okay, sold. I'm in.” Meagan: That's awesome. Kaitlin: Yeah, it was really good. This one was so much less traumatic and not even less traumatic. I had a full-blown spiritual experience with my VBAC. It was completely on my own terms. It was private. The day that I went into labor was my due date believe it or not. What a magical little baby. Awesome and obedient and wonderful. Now he's not. He's not obedient at all. He's 8 now. He's not obedient. But it was actually Father's Day in 2014. That was my due date. I woke up with these little Braxton Hicks turned into these contractions that would– you know the Braxton Hicks where they just tighten and release and you have them forever? It was like that except at the very height of it, it was this little squeeze that just took my attention. I was like, “Oh, what? What is this?”Meagan: You're like, “Oh, something's happening.” Kaitlin: Because I had never been in my own labor. This is part of it. I had never been. I had this suspicion, you know that intuition, I just knew that if I could get into labor, I could do this. I went to an acupuncturist, one that my doula recommended. They put these beads on my ears. I don't know if you've ever had this Meagan.Meagan: No. Kaitlin: Okay, so they put beads on my ears in these pressure points and they taped them. Then he told me as much as I could, and I am touching on the actual points because that's where they were. I'll never forget where they were. And to just pinch them and just keep doing that as much as you can to activate. Meagan: Really?Kaitlin: I did it. That was Friday. Friday night was when I went. I pinched and squeezed those until Saturday. I literally ripped the tape and the beads off. I was totally overstimulated and couldn't touch them anymore but I did as much as I could. I remember knowing that I had an instinct that I was going to go into labor because I could not stop eating the day before. It's so interesting how our bodies know. Meagan: It's fueling. They're fueling. Our bodies fuel. I did the same thing with my VBAC. It was so weird. I had all of this energy and was eating all of the stuff. Kaitlin: Everything. Meagan: Everyone was like, “How are you eating that much? You're 9 months pregnant.” I'm like, “I don't know. I'm so hungry.” Kaitlin: My husband, we went out for lunch and he got food for me, him, and my two-year-old at the time. I remember looking at him and I was like, “What are you guys going to eat?” I was insatiable which had been different from any other day. So anyways, I wake up on Father's Day, the day of my birth and it was this incredible, gentle, slow labor which was such a wonderful way to learn how to work with my body. The whole morning was this questioning time of, “Am I in labor?” In between, I was literally like this talking in between. I would convince myself, “No, not in labor.” There was this whole discussion of, “Should we go to Father's Day brunch?” Then I would have a wave come and I was like, “No, no, no. We're not going to sit at a restaurant right now.” Meagan: Yeah, no. Kaitlin: So I labored like that all day with just me and my husband. We watched World Cup soccer. We got lunch. We were eating. I was learning how to move. I was learning how to breathe. Every single contraction was just this opportunity to figure out how to work with my body. Then the nighttime came. It's what you learn in your childbirth classes. At night, the night falls and it signals this privacy and safety. Again, it was still just me and my husband. Things just picked up. Oh my goodness. I remember my doula called me. I had been texting her all day. I didn't want anyone to come. It was so private. She called me and we spoke. I just gave her an update then we hung up the phone and it's amazing the switch. Everything about labor is so mental and emotional. I just kicked into high gear. The waves that I was able to get on top of earlier, it was taking the full essence of my being to work through these contractions. It was so incredibly wild how fast that happened. We labored at home until maybe midnight. Yeah, about midnight. We called our doula. We had called the doctor and said, “Hey, I think we're going to come in.” The doctor said, “Well, she might get turned away. She's not ready.” Because this is what VBAC-supportive looks like. It looks like saying, “You might not be allowed to be here because that's how I keep you safe in this hospital.” I remember that really stood out to me. It was like, “Oh, this is interesting what she is saying. Maybe I shouldn't come.” So we waited as long as we possibly could. We called the doula around midnight. The doula came here to my house. I was on my knees next to my bed. I could not be in my bed for hours and hours. I looked at her as soon as she got there and I said, “Let's go. It's time to go.” She was like, “Oh, okay. I just got here.” Between my bedroom and my car, I had probably five contractions. It was just one after the other after the other. At this point, I'm thinking that I'm going to go to the hospital and spend the day there. My mom will come for the birth. I'm not really getting–Meagan: Where you're at. Kaitlin: Where I am in labor because it's part of labor. You just kind of can't tell. Meagan: It's true. There's no sense of time. There's no sense of understanding sometimes. You're like, “I know I'm feeling this, but it's probably going to be a while.” Kaitlin: Yeah, that's actually literally a part of it. You're not supposed to know. Your brain shuts down. The prefrontal cortex of language analysis shuts down and you're living in this beautiful other existence where you're in a wave. You're out of a wave. You're in a wave. You're out of a wave. So we went to the hospital. I walked all the way up. They offered me a wheelchair and I was like, “I literally cannot sit down. There's not a chance of that.” So I waddled my way and had contractions every few minutes. When I got to the floor, they were like, “Okay, just skip triage. Go right to the room.” They took one look at me. I think they obviously knew that I was much closer than I knew. I went to go pee in the bathroom in the room right before I went to go lay in the bed and get checked or whatever. When I sat on the toilet, I had a contraction and I now know it was spontaneous pushing. But I had this contraction where it was like, “Oooohh.” Meagan: Yeah. Uh-huh, uh-huh. Kaitlin: At the top, the peak, when you're moaning, it just caught. It was like, “Oh my god. I think I'm pushing.” It was this weird thing. It was weird because I hadn't experienced it before. So I got in bed and everything was really a blur because the doctor came. She checked me and she said I was 6 centimeters and +2 station, -2 station. I wasn't ready. When I was pushing and I was working, the best thing she did was she just said, “Okay. Just do your thing. I'm going to be right outside.” The nurses were skirting around asking me so many questions and I just ignored all of them. Where I was, was in the stars. I was just so far away from the hospital room. It doesn't make sense but I just imagined this tunnel from the top of my head to the outer regions of the universe. That's where I went. I went to this place that was just completely apart from the realities and the things that the nurses were worried about. I just could not care less. I was so deeply in tune with what I was feeling and where I was going in my brain and my body. I remember feeling so primal in a good way. The first time, I felt like a trapped animal and this time, I felt like this primal goddess being just feeling deeply connected to every sense of myself and every sense of my body. It was just wild. It's hard to put into words but it was one of the most powerful experiences I've ever had laboring my baby down and pushing him out. There was no other anything at that moment. It was just me, my body, and this baby. It was the coolest thing I've ever done. There were funny moments in it too. This is the reality side of it. At one point, I was curled up on my side against the side of the hospital bed. In the middle of a contraction, the bed starts going up and down, up and down. Meagan: Was your head pushing it?Kaitlin: I snapped at my husband, “Why are you moving the bed?” He was like, “It's you.” Meagan: It's you! Kaitlin: So it was quite the sight. But yeah, and he just flew out. My body just apparently, so I didn't realize this until a lot longer later, but I experienced fetal ejection reflex with my next baby who was a home birth, but I experienced it with him too. He went from inside of me to in the doctor's hands in one big push. It was just wild. It was really wild and it was really, really the coolest thing ever. It's hard to explain how intense the moment is and how good it feels to have that relief.Then the oxytocin was just pulsing. Everything is good. I remember he was put on my chest and he was so alert. He was so awake. He was not drugged. I was not drugged which was not necessarily part of the plan. I just want to throw that out there. I was wanting to go without an epidural but it wasn't–Meagan: Set in stone. Kaitlin: I wasn't deadset on it, yeah. I was open to whatever happened. Meagan: Which is healthy. That's a healthy way. Kaitlin: Because who knows? But it was so cool to have him go through those initial stages and be aware of his surroundings. I remember feeling even in that moment of joy, I remember feeling a little bit like I was experiencing what was stolen from me the first time around. It felt like a little bit of grief associated with that. I'm getting a little teary-eyed thinking about it right now. I honestly think it's why I had a third baby. I should have had this. I should have had this the first time. He looked just like his big brother. It was just this feeling of, “I was really robbed.” I knew I was robbed the first time but I didn't know what necessarily. Meagan: Right, because you hadn't been there yet.Kaitlin: I just knew there was something I was missing. There was this incredible feeling of triumph. That was absolutely the overwhelming feeling but there was this little linger of grief too, of just, “Oof. Now I know what I missed out on.” It was beautiful. I screamed from the top of my lungs, “I just had a baby out of my vagina!” Literally, the entire floor of the hospital could hear. My doula sent me a video of that later on. Meagan: Oh my gosh, I love that. I love that you have that. Kaitlin: Yeah, I'd have to find it but it was just this pure, pure triumph. I was forever changed by that. I was forever changed by the whole experience and that vaginal birth was the culmination of all of the work I put in. It was the culmination of doing the research, lining up my support team, and doing this work to be an active participant in my care. It was the best thing in the whole world and I am forever changed by that moment. Meagan: Yeah. I love that you said being an active participant in your care. It's so important, listeners, for you to be that person in your birth and not have birth happen to you. We know it happens. We know. It happens way too often. I hope in time that we stop seeing it happen so often and it's more of a rarity but right now, a lot of the time– I don't want to make it sound like we are painting a bad picture on providers or the system or anything like that. I mean, look. You were going out of the hospital–Kaitlin: And I still got burned.  Meagan: It depends, right? But it's so important and it all stems back to what we were talking about in the beginning is having the education, having the support, and being prepared to be that active participant and to be that person and finding those supportive providers that will say, “Hey, why don't you stay? You're probably going to get sent home for a little longer.” It's just so important and it can be vital to the outcome of our birth. Kaitlin: Yes. That's such an important thing, Meagan, if people are listening and trying to take things away. I think something that we can do often is, “I'm going to listen to this. I'm going to listen to as many birth stories as I can so I can learn exactly the formula. What did she do? What did she do? What is the thing that I have to do?” The thing you have to do is get the information and then trust your gut. Part of being an active participant is research, research, research, then trust your gut. That's what I always tell people. Do all of that research, but at the end of the day, you're the only person that can make each of these hundreds and thousands of tiny decisions for yourself. That's the real formula. Meagan: Yes. Kaitlin: Trusting our instincts, trusting ourselves, trusting our own wisdom in these moments to steer us and guide us forward. Meagan: Yeah and just like each of our bodies is made out of different things and chromosomes and hormones and all of the things, we are made to be the person we are, we have to trust all of those things. Like she said, and create our own formula because her formula is going to be different than mine. She's not jumping out of a plane. I jumped out of a plane twice because I loved it so much. I had to do it again. Kaitlin: I'm definitely not jumping out of a plane. Meagan: Right, I'm just saying that the formula is going to be different. You have to tune into your own formula and it does start with that intuition, education, and gathering support. Kaitlin: Meagan, you said it earlier too. I know we're running out of time. Meagan: No, you're fine. Kaitlin: You can see all of those stats and also do the opposite. You can see that it's safer to have a C-section and choose a vaginal birth. You can see that vaginal birth is riskier for you and choose that anyway. The evidence is there. The “evidence” is there as part of the decision making but you get to do what feels right for you and your family and your baby and your body and your birth. That is the thing. Evidence is not everything. It's one of the tools that we have. Meagan: Yes. Mic drop right there. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for being with us today. I mean, I know that we could talk for hours and hours and hours about all of the things. We probably need to do this again because of that. Kaitlin: I would love that. I love you and everything you're doing here. Thank you so much for having me. Meagan: Thank you. Can you tell everybody where they can find Be Her Village?Kaitlin: Absolutely. Behervillage.com is a great place to start. You can just hit the “Get Started” button. You can create a registry or if you're a birth worker and you want to get involved with what we're doing, you can add your services. We have training courses. We have so many great things. You can find us on Instagram and Facebook. Both are @behervillage. I'm in the stories. I'm answering the messages on Instagram so if you want to be in touch, that's the best way. Meagan: Absolutely. We'll make sure to drop all of those links in the show notes. So while you're leaving a review, also go check all of these amazing links out because Be Her Village is incredible, doing amazing things, and is seriously so important. So, so important. Thank you again so much. Kaitlin: Thank you so much, Meagan. Bye, everybody!ClosingWould you like to be a guest on the podcast? Tell us about your experience at thevbaclink.com/share. For more information on all things VBAC including online and in-person VBAC classes, The VBAC Link blog, and Meagan's bio, head over to thevbaclink.com. Congratulations on starting your journey of learning and discovery with The VBAC Link.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-vbac-link/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brands

What sort of stuff do I need to prepare for a baby? Great question. And what if it's not about the “stuff?” What if we focus less on the “stuff” and look more at the support and resources that mothers and parents need after they have a baby? Enter Be Her Village, an online cash gift registry where parents can select services and support for friends and family to contribute to. You can customize your registry to include things like your midwifery care, a doula (birth and/or postpartum), lactation consultant, physical therapy, massage therapy, chiropractic care, nutritionist, etc.  Kaitlin talks about her journey that inspired the idea for Be Her Village, plus how it works for parents to use it (ps - it's ALWAYS free for parents to use), as well as how birthworkers can use it to list their services and be a part of the $12 billion industry for baby gifts (spoiler: majority of them are not necessary!).  For parents: go to www.behervillage.com and start your registry (and let them know DIAH sent you when you sign up!) For birthworkers: go to www.behervillage.com to list your services (which is free!), and you can use the code ATHOME for 20% off any course or certification you'd like to sign up for Links From The Episode: Be Her Village: https://behervillage.com/ Be Her Village Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behervillage/ Episode 370 with Kaitlin: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/doing-it-at-home/id1153134918?i=1000551843569 More From Doing It At Home: Send us your birth story: https://bit.ly/3jOjCKl Doing It At Home book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3vJcPmU DIAH Website: https://www.diahpodcast.com/ DIAH Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doingitathome/ DIAH YouTube: https://bit.ly/3pzuzQC DIAH Merch: www.diahpodcast.com/merch Give Back to DIAH: https://bit.ly/3qgm4r9 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if you actually were fully supported and got what you needed to help you in your postpartum? Well in this episode we talk with Kaitlin McGreyes, the founder of “Be Her Village”, all about the importance of a village in your 4th trimester, how to mindfully register and the beauty of doing motherhood together. We hope this episode will encourage you to seek out a community if you don't have one currently and how to set up a registry that will support YOU. So grab a snack and let's get to it! Resources  For listeners of this episode, “Be Her Village” has given our listeners a discount code- HEYMAMA20 to receive 20% off their paid offerings on the registry.  Website:  https://behervillage.com Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behervillage/ 

Did you feel frazzled at your first pediatrician's appointment? Did you cling to your baby feeding goals because your birth didn't turn out the way you hoped? Kaitlin McGreyes of Be Her Village tells three very different breastfeeding stories that showed varying levels of support. But one thing rang true throughout– the levels of support she felt and didn't feel made it clear that she wanted to change how much support other parents felt, and she wanted to do that starting in pregnancy, and wanted to make support a part of the mainstream conversation.On this episode you will hear themes related to: Being disappointed in your birth story Clinging to your breastfeeding outcomes as a result of your birth outcomes The importance of finding a pediatrician who truly supports human milk feeding Remembering that pediatricians work for parents Every baby is different How emotional baby feeding can be even years after the fact Baby registries and big box stores don't talk to families about support Helping families get support paid for FPIES in the breastfeeding infant Finding your own diagnosisHead to Apple Podcasts or Spotify for more Milk Making Minutes episodes!Listen to Episode of The Milk Making Minutes on Amazon Music too!Parents: behervillage.comCreate your FREE registry and fund your support team!Birth Workers: behervillage.com/partnersUse code MILKMAKING25 to save 25% off any annual plan and/or Gift Registry Expert Certification course.To find my listing on be her village go to:https://behervillage.com/partners/quabbinbirthservicesTo connect with Be Her Village on IG:https://www.instagram.com/behervillage/To book a lactation consultation with me, visit my website: www.quabbinbirthservices.com. In many cases I can bill your insurance, or create a superbill for you to submit for reimbursement. I offer virtual consults for clients outside of my service area!Follow me on IG @lonigrosh to laugh about baby feeding (so you don't cry) and to see photos of guests. Follow me on TikTok to answer questions of the day and ponder systemic inequities together: @lonigroshibclc

Kaitlin McGreyes is the founder of BeHerVillage, an organization that aims to increase access to maternal care for all. She began her career as a birth doula in 2014, providing support to hundreds of families through their parenthood journeys. Kaitlin has since founded a doula team, mentored aspiring doulas, and advocated for the rights of birthing people. She is also dedicated to helping birth workers enter the retail baby gift industry. Welcome Kaitlin    In this episode: Kaitlin McGreyes shares her journey to creating Be Her Village, an organization that provides support for new moms Kaitlin shares her birth experiences, including a traumatic standard American maternal care experience, a transformative second birth, and a powerful home birth Kaitlin discusses the benefits and misconceptions surrounding home birth, including the ability to access higher level care and hospital interventions potentially leading to emergencies Kaitlin advocates for self-advocacy and refusing to be a backseat participant in medical appointments and during birth Be Her Village's baby registry is highlighted as a way to provide actual support and care as gifts instead of just retail items   Key Takeaways: Kaitlin had a traumatic first birth experience but transformed into an empowered person after her second birth Kaitlin advocates for mother's power and transformation rather than the mode of delivery Kaitlin shares about various birth choices, refused to be a backseat participant and had a successful natural birth Home births are not necessarily unsafe and can provide access to higher-level care and interventions   Tweetable Quotes: “It was not about an intervention-free birth. It was about having a birth where I felt in charge and in the driving, in the driver's seat.” - Kaitlin McGreyes Connect with Kaitlin McGreyes! Website:https://behervillage.com/ Social Media: Instagram, Facebook, TikTok   Connect with Debra!   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/debra.pascalibonaro  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/orgasmicbirth/  Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debra-pascali-bonaro-1093471/  Visit https://www.orgasmicbirth.com/ for more information on how to have fulfilling and enjoyable births. Check out Orgasmic Birth: The Best-Kept Secret, the film creating buzz around the world! Orgasmic Birth Podcast: Pleasure in pregnancy, birth, and parenting. I believe pleasure is our birthright - from our sexuality, birth, parenting, and beyond, we can find pleasure when we create space for joy and intimacy in our lives. Join me to have deep conversations about breaking the taboos of Sexuality + Motherhood/Parenthood.    Listen to leading experts in sexuality, healing, and childbirth as well as stories from new parents, doulas, doctors, midwives, and nurses. We will discuss how to positively prepare for childbirth and parenting by expanding love and intimacy in your life.

Kaitlin McGreyes is the founder of Be Her Village, a gift registry for parents to get the funds they need to pay for the support they deserve. Kaitlin has been a doula for seven years and was called into this work after her own birth experience. She is a fierce advocate for mothers, and created Be Her Village to help all parents be able to afford and access the care and support they need as they welcome their babies.On this episode of the Becoming a Sleep Consultant podcast Kaitlyn shares:- How Be Her Village is positioning doulas and sleep consultants in front of new parents so that we are better positioned to grow our businesses in the postpartum space- How Be Her Village is working to eliminate the stigma and shame around hiring support as a new parent- That the money is THERE! The baby gifting business is a 12 billion dollar industry, and by working together, birth and postpartum professionals can change the narrative around what new parents really need most when they bring their new babies home.Links:https://behervillage.com/https://www.instagram.com/behervillage/https://www.facebook.com/behervillageIf you would like to learn more about becoming a Certified Sleep Consultant, please join our Facebook Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/becomeasleepconsultant or check out our website https://thecpsm.com/

Startle reflex, heart palpitations, clumsiness. Discover what week the baby begins to flip in preparation for birth [11:14] Celeste and Dave continue their pregnancy journey with Week 25 updates on their cauliflower baby, and discuss pregnancy insomnia [3:15], hemorrhoids [5:32], blurry and dry vision [7:16], and the development of itchy skin [8:44]. Doula and CEO, Kaitlin McGreyes, joins Celeste in an empowering conversation about: The founding of Be Her Village [13:10] The importance of community support [17:54] Reducing the “What If” game [27:29] Planning around the 'uncontrollables' of birth [33:48] Expressing healthy rage [49:32] Doula tips for contractions [55:08] SHOW NOTES ✨ Be Her Village behervillage IG Celeste Busa IG Dave Hill IG THE SHOW

Today we're chatting with Kaitlin McGreyes about the birth of her 3rd child, which was her first home birth. After a cesarean and then a hospital VBAC for her first two births, she decided to have a different experience for her third. Kaitlin was a doula for 2 years before her home birth. And interesting fact: in the beginning of her doula work, she was against home birth. We talk about the shifts in her thoughts about home birth and the reasons for having one for herself.  Plus really awesome conversations around the landscape of the birth world in general, and what she and her company Be Her Village are doing to help parents and families in getting the real support they need (like funding for their care provider, postpartum practitioners, mental health resources, etc.) as opposed to a bunch of extra toys and gear that they might not necessarily need.  From Kaitlin: “I had been a doula for 2 years. I had a cesarean for my first, vbac in hospital with my second (unmedicated) and I opted for a home birth for my third baby. I was expecting the birth to be EXACTLY like my vbac labor. and it was in terms of timing and how it started. Both started at 6am while I was in bed with small Braxton hicks that had a pinch at the peak. That's where the similarities ended. My 21 hour vbac was gentle and peaceful and spiritual. My home birth was moving faster than I expected. My midwife only made it because she was smart enough to come without me asking. And in under 6 hours I went from maybe being in labor to roaring my baby out in a half filled birth pool. I experienced FER and instead of pushing her out I was holding her back so I didn't tear. Unlike what you see on YouTube our home birth involved both of us screaming lol. It was fast and furious, much like my daughter.” Things we talk about in this episode: Cesarean birth Hospital VBAC Reasons for having a home birth Doula work influencing your own birthing choices Preparing for birth while you are pregnant Be Her Village registry Links From The Episode: Be Her Village Website: https://www.behervillage.com/ Be Her Village Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behervillage/   Offers From Our Awesome Partners: Esembly: https://bit.ly/3eanCSz - use code DIH20 to get 20% off your order Needed: https://bit.ly/2DuMBxP - use code DIAH to get 20% off your order or DIAH100 for $100 off a Complete Plan   More From Doing It At Home: Doing It At Home book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3vJcPmU DIAH Website: https://www.diahpodcast.com/ DIAH Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doingitathome/ DIAH YouTube: https://bit.ly/3pzuzQC DIAH Merch: https://bit.ly/3qhwgAe  Give Back to DIAH: https://bit.ly/3qgm4r9

Hello everyone and welcome back to our podcast, The Patients Speak, where we're combining the business and science innovations of healthcare with the patient voice and how to help them navigate the system to get from diagnosis to wellness faster and more smoothly. Our guest today is Kaitlin McGreyes who is the founder and CEO of a venture called Be Her Village, a gift registry app.“Be Her Village is my way of helping parents access the funds to pay for all of those support providers that insurance is largely not covering right now,” says Kaitlin.Be Her Village is a gift registry for moms. Instead of a baby gift registry, they help moms get the support that they need when they are welcoming a baby into their families. Some of the support services we are talked about are : Prenatal CareDuring Pregnancy SupportEducation On Pregnancy MattersDoulasAdvocacy HelpLactation ConsultantsPelvic Floor TherapistsMaternal And Mental Health Providers“There's something really beautiful about reinventing the village as a village of professionals that we can tap into and get the wisdom from, and get the care into the homes of mothers, and get them connected, in a really direct and efficient way,” says Kaitlin.They have a growing network of providers across the country, in all different categories whom they match with families or mothers for free, that need a particular service in their networks.They then help mothers get their registry set up so that they can get the funds they need to pay for those services. And if they don't have a provider in their area, they help find one. In our conversation, we found that this is not just a gifting idea. It is a women's health idea.“The midwives, the nurse practitioners, the lactation consultants, the pelvic floor providers. They are so excited that we exist.”The clinical community is excited about the existence of Be Her Village because in the areas where they can't offer the full spectrum of support, then the patient's voice is amplified by the fact that they know that they need support, and they need support from a multitude of different practitioners.“Parenthood Ventures, and we are part of a network of parenthood technology companies that are working to make life better for parents.”In our conversation, we realized that parents are struggling and that they have problems that need to be solved, and that those problems can be solved through tech. She's also part of a consortium, an ecosystem called Parenthood Ventures. They are also looking for mentorship as well. So as to have a competent team to be able to carry out their missionIn conclusion, she gives us a takeaway as we sum up our discussion, “We need to engage with the people we want to help. Put your ego and yourself to the side. At the end of the day, we need to build something that people will use and will tell each other about as they experience it,"Kaitlin 's Website I am the founder of BeHerVillage, a gift registry platform for parents to get support like doulas, lactation care, in-home postpartum support, and more! Kaitlin 's Facebook page @behervillage on Instagram LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kaitlinmcgreyes/BSB Media BSB Media

In this episode, Kaitlin and I discussWhat is Be Her Village, and how does it work?What is wrong with the traditional registry?What systematic failures are present in the US causing new and expecting parents to struggle?How can we convince friends and family to support us by using this registry?What services have the most positive impact for new and expecting parents?What are your favorite resources?You can learn more about Kaitlin and Be Her Village here. You can also learn more about how I support new and expecting parents on my website or Instagram. You can learn more about how I empower new and expecting parents on my Instagram and my website.

Kristin and Kaitlin McGreyes of Be Her Village discuss the importance of registering for services vs. things and her groundbreaking new gift registry platform.

In this episode, Kaitlin McGreyes, Founder of Be Her Village talks with Pediatrician Dr. Joel Warsh, aka Dr. Gator about how NOT to get sick (and the answer isn't to obsessively wash your hands). Dr. Gator talks about how lifestyle factors such as sleep and diet play a really important role in longterm health and wellness. As a pediatrician he blends his Western medical background with a naturopathic and holistic approach to help keep the kids (and families) in his practice healthy by valuing prevention of illness as much as the treatment of illness. Dr. Gator knows that as a pediatrician, he is one of the many components to a wellness team that has a positive effect on health and thriving.You can find Dr. Gator on IG at instagram.com/drjoelgatorWork with him by heading to his website: IntegrativePediatrics.comAnd sign up for his upcoming masterclass for keeping kids healthy: RaisingAmazingPlus.comTo set yourself up with a village for wellness for yourself and your new baby, create a registry at BeHerVillage.com and register for the services you want to keep yourself and your family thriving.*This and all episodes of the Be Her Village Podcast serves to educate based on personal stories and experiential information from practitioners, and is not to be used as medical advice. Please see your medical professional for specific advice pertaining to your unique experience.

In this episode we are diving deep into HOW we can ask for the support we need during pregnancy, birth, and postpartum.And on the flip side, how do we show up as the support that others NEED rather than the way we *think* we should?As we've talked through the last few seasons of the podcast, we recognize that for so many birthing people, there is a tremendous lack of support, both personally and professionally, as they navigate the transition into parenthood.What's so important about this is recognizing that the support we need looks so different for each of us and for many of us that have this knowledge that something has to change. We're still not sure how to do that. How do we ask people what they want?  We feel awkward or uncomfortable sharing our skills, talents, or monetary support.  How do we show up and combat the rabid consumerism that is so prevalent in pregnancy and birth preparation and transition into something that creates a full spectrum of support for our loved ones and those who are in our care?To answer that question. We have Kaitlin McGreyes of Be Her Village coming on to explain the work she has done to make this process more accessible for birthing people and for their supporters, you will leave this episode, having so many more resources to offer to your clients and loved ones so they feel confident asking for the support that they need.Join us as we explore:~Lack of accessibility in healthcare resources~System failures to support new parents~Combatting our culture of consumerism~Trusting new parents to identify their unique needs~Community accountability and growth on the way to health equityLearn more about Kaitlin's work in her guest profile!Support the show (https://www.paypal.me/yourbirthpartners)

On this week's episode of the Be Her Village podcast Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village is talking with Kate Miller, founder of Mighty Milk— a company offering online video based breastfeeding classes for new and expectant parents.Breastfeeding can be hard, no matter how natural it may seem to be. t's not always as easy as:  have a baby  and then the baby latches— often there is struggle, trial and error. Most often, those who reach their breastfeeding goals are surrounded by support.Kate and Kaitlin talk about the struggles of breastfeeding, why partner involvement is so important, how to help a new mom who is breastfeeding, and what Kate offers in her online courses.If you're getting ready for baby and you're planning on breastfeeding, check out MightyMilk.co to get yourself and your partner as prepared as can be.And if you want to put breastfeeding support or any other kind of support on your baby registry— create your registry for free at BeHerVillage.com

We should be focused on the patient, where relationships are built and trust is formed between the person giving birth as well as the care providers. Maggie Runyon, Labor and Delivery nurse, birth advocate, and founder of Your Birth Partners (a nonprofit that aims to cultivate inclusive, collaborative birth care communities rooted in autonomy, respect, & equity) talks with Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village to answer the question: “If you could create change within the hospital system as is: how would you change it?”They talk about the disparities in the maternal healthcare system, how much of the systems that are in place were created to establish and maintain socioeconomic and racial separation, and what birth workers can do now to help from right where they are.Maggie wants to see the system  work to be more trauma informed and collaborative, where the people giving birth are put first before hospital policies.Learn more about Maggie and her mission at YourBirthPartners.orgIf you're ready to join Maggie in her mission, there's a Facebook group for you! https://www.facebook.com/groups/ybpcommunitySet yourself up for the most supported pregnancy, birth, and postpartum experience when you register at BeHerVillage.com: where you can get the funds you need to pay for the support you deserve!

Elizabeth Green has nearly 40 years of experience working with infants, toddlers, and families and currently serves families as a sleep consultant.Elizabeth refers to herself as a sleep doula, because as there's tons of conflicting advice around sleep, she helps families figure out what their needs are and works with them from right where they are.As Elizabeth says in the episode “It's not sleep training, it's sleep learning”.Parents need to find a balance where the needs of their children are being met but also that the needs of the parents are being met— and sometimes that means mama hires a sleep consultant so she can get her baby and herself more sleep at night.To learn more about Elizabeth and her services, head to EarlyParentingSleepSupport.comThis is what we're doing with the Be Her Village gift registry: is helping moms and families realize their own needs, and then getting the funds to pay for the support to meet those needs. BeHerVillage.comIf you're a provider and you'd like to join us on our mission to help moms and families realize their own needs: head to BeHerVillage.com/partners to create a business profile.

In this episode, Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village talks with Shravya Kovela, pelvic floor PT and business development manager for Flyte by Pelvital. We've said it before and we're going to keep saying it: you don't have to go through your life peeing your pants every time you sneeze, sex doesn't have to be painful, and you don't have to live with discomfort. There is help available no matter if you're newly pregnant, 4 months postpartum, a year, or 10 years postpartum.The subject of pelvic health and urinary incontinence can be embarrassing, uncomfortable, and since it hasn't been talked about enough, some women just don't know that there are tools for pelvic floor health.If you didn't get PT or didn't know about PT after birth— it's not your fault.Unfortunately we don't have the standard for pelvic floor that we do for other parts of the body and other procedures. If you have any other health event: there is a follow up procedure afterwards. The pelvic floor is this place where all of the major muscles in our body come together, so why are we ignoring it after pregnancy and giving birth?Many women don't have the access or the time to get the pelvic support they need, so Flyte is a tool for women to train their pelvic floor in just a few minutes a day.Not only is this company developing tools and research, they're also widely connected to Pelvic floor PT's so they can ensure each person who needs this kind of support can find a provider that works with them. Flyte by Pelvital is making it comfortable and easy to get assessed and get the tools needed to begin the journey to a healthy and strong pelvic floor.The Actual Product:Flyte is an internal device using mechanotherapy— using light mechanical pulses or oscillations to put load on the pelvic floor. It tells you if you're contracting and relaxing your muscles correctly. We didn't have a way to load our pelvic floor muscles, until Flyte. You don't need a prescription, and all it takes is 5 minutes a day to make lasting changes.If you're a physical therapist or other professional, head to FlyteTherapy.com and hit the tab titled “For Healthcare Professionals” to learn about mechanotherapy and be a connected part of their community.To learn more and to connect with Flyte:FlyteTherapy.com for info, content, and all things pelvic health related@flytetherapy on IGFlyte's Podcast: https://pelvicflooratitscore.podbean.comFlyte's Youtube Channel: https://www.youtube.com/c/FlytebyPelvitalIf you're expecting a new baby head to BeHerVillage.com to create your gift registry to get the funds you need to pay for the support services you deserve.

Being a doula is heart led, it's working with families, it's caring for people, but not all doulas are equipped with the tools and experience to start a business. In this episode, Kaitlin McGreyes, Founder of Be Her Village interviews Darcy Sauers, better known as  Doula Darcy.Darcy is a postpartum doula and marketing expert who helps doulas start and maintain successful businesses.Kaitlin and Darcy are both in the business of helping women get the support they deserve. Darcy wants doulas to charge their worth and market themselves effectively to be able to help more moms, and Kaitlin wants to make it easy for the moms to afford their support teams.Their message for doulas and all birthworkers  is to remember that collaboration is more effective than competition.Darcy has tools for anyone who is looking to learn about marketing their doula business— from a free facebook group, to a paid 1:1 coaching package. You can learn more about her and all of her offerings here!If you're a doula or another birth worker and you're ready to offer your clients a new way to pay for your services, join Be Her Village and start your free business profile right here.And if you or someone you know is expecting a new baby, Be Her Village is the registry to get the funds you need to pay for the support you deserve.

Today we're chatting with Kaitlin McGreyes about the birth of her 3rd child, which was her first home birth. After a cesarean and then a hospital VBAC for her first two births, she decided to have a different experience for her third. Kaitlin was a doula for 2 years before her home birth. And interesting fact: in the beginning of her doula work, she was against home birth. We talk about the shifts in her thoughts about home birth and the reasons for having one for herself.  Plus really awesome conversations around the landscape of the birth world in general, and what she and her company Be Her Village are doing to help parents and families in getting the real support they need (like funding for their care provider, postpartum practitioners, mental health resources, etc.) as opposed to a bunch of extra toys and gear that they might not necessarily need.  From Kaitlin: “I had been a doula for 2 years. I had a cesarean for my first, vbac in hospital with my second (unmedicated) and I opted for a home birth for my third baby. I was expecting the birth to be EXACTLY like my vbac labor. and it was in terms of timing and how it started. Both started at 6am while I was in bed with small Braxton hicks that had a pinch at the peak. That's where the similarities ended. My 21 hour vbac was gentle and peaceful and spiritual. My home birth was moving faster than I expected. My midwife only made it because she was smart enough to come without me asking. And in under 6 hours I went from maybe being in labor to roaring my baby out in a half filled birth pool. I experienced FER and instead of pushing her out I was holding her back so I didn't tear. Unlike what you see on YouTube our home birth involved both of us screaming lol. It was fast and furious, much like my daughter.” Things we talk about in this episode: Cesarean birth Hospital VBAC Reasons for having a home birth Doula work influencing your own birthing choices Preparing for birth while you are pregnant Be Her Village registry Links: Be Her Village Website: https://www.behervillage.com/ Be Her Village Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behervillage/ Doing It At Home book on Amazon: https://amzn.to/3vJcPmU DIAH website: https://www.diahpodcast.com/ DIAH Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doingitathome/ DIAH YouTube: https://bit.ly/3pzuzQC DIAH Store: https://yoursuccessfulhomebirth.com/ DIAH Merch: https://bit.ly/3qhwgAe  Give Back to DIAH: https://bit.ly/3qgm4r9

Moms all around the world need more support. And Be Her Village is here to help. Be Her Village has put almost $30K straight into the pockets of parents to be able to purchase prenatal, birth and postpartum support and education. Tune into this conversation with Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village, an online gift registry to get you the funds you need for the support you want and deserve. Create your FREE support registry here: behervillage.com (You can add Unmedicated Academy!) See the Show Notes: https://www.fiercelizzie.com/podcast/37 As always, thank you so much for tuning in to The Birth Class Podcast! Let me know how you liked the podcast and if this episode was helpful to you, make sure to screenshot this episode and tag me (@fiercelizzie) so I can repost! Lastly, come say ‘hey'! at: https://www.instagram.com/fiercelizzie/ Join the VIP MOMs and get birth tips each week: https://www.fiercelizzie.com/vipmom Learn More About Unmedicated Academy, my full birth course for the mom who wants a powerful and positive hospital birth experience: https://www.fiercelizzie.com/unmedicatedacademy

In this episode Kaitlin, Founder of Be Her Village talks with Jayne Havens, a sleep consultant and founder of Snooze Fest. Her mission is to meet parents where they are and help them meet their goals around sleep, no matter what they are.She's not the bed-sharing police.She's not the nursing-to-sleep police.She wants to help parents get sleep, help babies learn to sleep, and help establish routines that work for the whole family.Sleep training is not “Cry It Out”— it's teaching a baby or toddler to fall asleep independently. If you're okay with your situation around sleep— then that's great! But if your sleep or mental health is lacking, it might be time to do something different, and Jayne is here to help!Jayne encourages a slow, gentle, responsive process that will take a lot of patience and TLC. Her approach is client led and done with a lot of encouragement, resources, and support.Jayne not only supports parents with sleep, but also owns a business where she is training and mentoring sleep consultants with her program. Jayne is offering a discount for those who are interested in becoming a sleep consultant. Use this code at check-out: BEHERVILLAGE200 If you're looking to set yourself up with some sleep support after your baby arrives, you can add Jayne's services to your gift registry when you register at BeHerVillage.comAre you in the business of supporting new parents? Join us! Create your business profile at BeHerVillage.com/partners

In this episode Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village talks with mom-to-be Sam Bisagni about navigating the emotions, the family shifts, and why it's so important to maintain boundaries. As Kaitlin says in the episode “the work of birth is done right now”If you're a mom to be, like Sam, and want to set yourself set up with support instead of stuff, you can create your registry for free at BeHerVillage.comIf you works with expectant parents and want to offer your clients a new way to pay: Head to BeHerVillage.com/partners to join us!

On this episode of The Be Her Village Podcast, Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village talks with Lizzie Bolliger AKA Fierce Lizzie — self proclaimed fierce birth advocate who wants moms to be educated before they head into birth.After feeling frustrated and unsupported with providers after her first two births Lizzie became a doula and childbirth educator to help moms feel empowered and in control of their births.Lizzie's focus is on moms who want to have an unmedicated hospital birth. In this episode, Kaitlin and Lizzie talk about their birth experiences, the hospital system, and how moms can navigate it to take control of their experiences in pregnancy in birth.Unmedicated Academy is Lizzie's most popular course which has it all to get ready for an unmedicated hospital birth: lizziebolliger.comAND she's listed on Be Her Village so if you want to take Lizzie's course or any of her other offerings, you can pay for them when you register at BeHerVillage.com!Be Her Village is a gift registry where parents can ask for and receive the funds they need to pay for the support they deserve! Create your free registry today!

In this episode of the Be Her Village podcast, Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village talks with Mandy Major, founder of Major Care Doulas and MyFourth App— a virtual postpartum doula service where new parents have access to postpartum doula support anytime, anywhere.They chat about how important it is for the new mom to be supported and cared for— for the wellbeing of the new mom as well as the new baby. Having a postpartum doula gives a new mom the help she needs without the weight of a relationship attached to it. And it also keeps her from googling every question she has.Doulas aren't self indulgent, they're an important part of recovery for birthing people.If you want a postpartum doula in your pocket, check out MyFourth App by Major Care Doulas. Find her on instagram @majorcaredoulas and @doulamandy Read more from Mandy:https://www.healthline.com/health/pregnancy/what-post-childbirth-care-looks-like-around-the-world-and-why-the-u-s-is-missing-the-markhttps://www.huffpost.com/entry/postpartum-support-mothers-united-states_n_60f42d83e4b01ba8eed7084bAnd for all of your other support systems, head to Be Her Village where you can get the cash you need for the support you deserve.If you're a doula or other support provider, join us!

In this episode of The Be Her Village Podcast, Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village talks with Emily Maretsky, an engineering teacher as well as a financial coach. She helps people feel empowered to take control of their finances .In this episode they talk about how to get your financials in order to pay for all the costs that come with starting a family.Emily breaks things down to be not intimidating and easy to digest so that even the newest newbie in the financial world can feel confident in getting started.You can find Emily and all of her info here!Be Her Village is a cash gift registry where soon-to-be parents can easily ask for and receive the funds they need for the support they DESERVE.Parents, start your free registry at BeHerVillage.comProviders— want a new way for your clients to pay for your services? Sign up at BeHerVillage.com/partners

Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village talks with Michelle Goitia of JC Bump and baby. Michelle leads prenatal and postpartum yoga classes and community groups for moms. She's based in Jersey City but now offers her group classes virtually.Before Michelle was even done with her class on prenatal yoga, she decided to quit her corporate job to join the world of pregnancy, birth, and postpartum. She entered first through  yoga, and then by becoming a doula. She quickly learned that what she loved to do was help new moms get ready for birth and the postpartum experience.They discuss the importance of creating connection for new moms in all stages as they transition from being pregnant, to birth, and then into motherhood.One of the things Michelle focuses on in her groups is helping moms to tune back into their intuition, encouraging them to be vocal about what they want and what they feel.We're all doing the best that we can, and we can do a little better when we're connected, educated, and equipped with the tools we need.Michelle is based in New Jersey, but offers virtual services as well. If you're pregnant and want to connect with Michelle, or use your Be Her Village registry to pay for her services, you can find her in the BHV registry guide.If you're pregnant and you're looking for a new kind of registry, one where you can get the funds you need for the support you deserve, look no further. Create your free registry today at BeHerVillage.com.And if you're like Michelle, helping parents in any stage of the pregnancy, birth or postpartum journey and you're looking for a new way to help your clients pay for your services, join us! 

In this episode of the Be Her Village Podcast Kailtin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village talks to Emily Masnoon of Emily Masnoon Yoga and Coaching. Emily has a virtually based yoga and coaching practice where her focus is on pregnant and new moms. She encourages them to take the time to really embrace self care, for themselves and to be better parents to their children. Kaitlin and Emily talk about the  beauty and the importance of strengthening one's intuition so we're better able to listen to our gut, rather than the inner critic or outside opinions. Emily is a provider on the Be Her Village partner page, and if you're pregnant and want to use Emily's services— you can add her to your Be Her Village registry.We're excited to help parents get the funds they need for the support they deserve. Thanks for being here with us!Create your registry today to get the funds you need for the support you deserve: BeHerVillage.comWant to offer your clients a new way to pay you? Join us as a provider:BeHerVillage.com/partners

Steph interviews Kaitlin McGreyes, mom of 3, doula, and founder of Be Her Village. Be Her Village is an online “baby registry” focused on supporting moms in the postpartum period. Imagine a baby registry where you can sign up for house cleaning services, doulas, lactation specialists, and even Steph's Postpartum Reset nutrition program! In the episode, Kaitlin shares why it's so important to prioritize mom's health postpartum, what types of services are available for new parents, how to know if someone is the right “fit” to support you postpartum, and her top tips for new parents to do and think about to set themselves up for success. This is a must-listen if you're preparing for your baby's arrival, are feeling weighed down by your to-do list as a mom, or want to learn how to support a friend who is expecting! Topics Discussed: Why moms need support more than “stuff” What types of services and support are available for new parents How to find the right team to support you How to overcome the feeling that you shouldn't need help Top tips for parents entering the postpartum period Show Notes: BeHerVillage.com Instagram.com/BeHerVillage facebook.com/groups/behervillage Listen to today's episode on our website Kaitlin McGreyes, mom of 3, doula, and founder of Be Her Village. Be Her Village is an online “baby registry” focused on supporting moms in the postpartum period. This Episode's Sponsors  Enjoy the health benefits of PaleoValley's products such as their supplements, superfood bars and meat sticks.  Receive 15% off your purchase by using code DOCTORMOM at checkout or head to paleovalley.com/doctormom  Discover for yourself why Needed is trusted by women's health practitioners and mamas alike to support optimal pregnancy outcomes. Try their 4 Part Complete Nutrition plan which includes a Prenatal Multi, Omega-3, Collagen Protein, and Pre/Probiotic. To get started, head to thisisneeded.com, and use code DOCTORMOM50 for $50 off Needed's Complete Plan! Light therapy is a rare treatment that really is one-size-fits-all. Busy moms can benefit from more healthy light in their lives. Light Therapy provides many health benefits like enhanced cellular function and ATP energy production, better skin, increased blood flow, better sleep and faster recovery after workouts. Visit joovv.com/doctormom and use code DOCTORMOM for $50 off your first purchase. INTRODUCE YOURSELF to Steph and Dr. Elana on Instagram. They can't wait to meet you! @stephgreunke @drelanaroumell Please remember that the views and ideas presented on this podcast are for informational purposes only.  All information presented on this podcast is for informational purposes and not intended to serve as a substitute for the consultation, diagnosis, and/or medical treatment of a healthcare provider. Consult with your healthcare provider before starting any diet, supplement regimen, or to determine the appropriateness of the information shared on this podcast, or if you have any questions regarding your treatment plan.

In this episode Kaitlin, founder of Be Her Village talks with Nicole Davies, aka Crunchy Mama. They bond over their love of ice cold water and the idea that being a crunchy mama means something different for everyone-- and that most parents are doing the best they can with what they have. They acknowledge that parenting topics tend to be divisive and extreme where some parents who come looking for information leave feeling ashamed and more confused than ever. Nicole has created an incredible community for parents to feel welcome to learning and evolving throughout their parenting journeys. They discuss how necessary it is to have support (whatever that means for you) while entering parenthood, and that supported parents are able to do better for themselves and their children.Are you a soon-to-be parent? (Or do you know one?) Looking for support as you transition into parenthood? Check out The Be Her Village Gift Registry where you can register for the support you need. Parent groups, childbirth ed, doulas, and more! BeHerVillage.comAre you in the business of helping parents through pregnancy, birth, and postpartum? Join us in our mission to connect mamas and families to the support systems they need. Create your free profile here!In Detroit?? COME SEE US. We're going to be in your neck of the woods Sunday, October 24th at Shed 3 for The Be Her Village Detroit Motherhood Expo!! Tickets are on sale now! Thanks again for tuning into our podcast. Your support is so appreciated!

It can be hard to recognize what you see in the mirror for weeks, months, and maybe even years after having a baby. And even if you end up looking pretty similar to what you looked like pre-baby, sometimes it's hard to get back in touch with your body. In this episode Kaitlin, founder of Be Her Village talks with Carolina Stone of Street Parking, which is an online fitness community. Carolina specifically leads the Pregnant and Postpartum division of their membership and coaching program. Kaitlin and Carolina talk about Carolina's role within the Street Parking coaching community, and how it shifted after having her own baby and realizing that she needed support to be able to feel okay transitioning from athlete to new mom, and figuring out how to correctly, safely, and realistically move her body again. She helped develop programming within the Street Parking umbrella to help moms get their bodies and minds ready for birth, as well as offer space to help in the recovery. For more on Street Parking, head to their website, and click here to learn more about the Pregnant/Postpartum ProgramWe're hosting an event!! (we are closely watching Covid/restrictions)Sunday October 24th we're coming to Detroit to meet the amazing community of families and birth workers at the Detroit Motherhood Expo click here to learn more!Be Her Village is an online cash gift registry platform for moms and families to get the support they need instead of the stuff they don't!If you're expecting, create your free registry today!If you work with new moms and families in pregnancy, birth, or postpartum, JOIN US! It's completely free for you to create a profile so families in your area can find and fund your services. Get started here!

In this episode Kaitlin, founder of Be Her Village talks with Elizabeth Ireland-- a Hypnobirthing instructor in Detroit. Elizabeth Demystifies hypnosis-- jokingly saying “We didn't do ourselves any favors by calling it that”. She lets everyone know that the Hypnobirthing method isn't this swinging-pocket-watch-mind-control thing designed for people who want to have unmedicated homebirths. Hypnobirthing is getting into a state of mind where the birthing person and their body is connected to their intuition and their voice. Like most of the things we talk about on the Be Her Village Podcast, Hypnobirthing is for the entire spectrum of birthing folks, from the homebirth parent to the planned C-Section.They talk about consent in pregnancy and birth, and they remind us that the power lies within the hands, hearts, and desires of the birthing person. Enjoy this once-again-passionate conversation with two women who are excited about making changes in the birth world!If you're looking for a Hypnobirthing instructor, you can find Elizabeth Ireland and her services here on the Be Her Village Registry.If you're a parent or a birth worker in Detroit, let's hang! Are you or someone you know ready for a new kind of gift registry? Make your free registry here!Are you a birth worker excited about sharing our mission of Support Not Stuff? Create your FREE Be Her Village provider profile here!Like this episode?Share us, rate us, and subscribe!And follow us on IG for wisdom, updates and general shenanigans!

 Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village and Dr. Helene Darmanin, PT, DPT, CSCS get into  ALL of the common but NOT NORMAL things: from urinary incontinence, pain during sex, and the issues within our maternal healthcare system.We also drop a little hint about some upcoming excitement happening in October, so be sure to listen!This is the type of conversation that happens when you put two self-proclaimed fierce feminists together.Helene is a Licensed Physical Therapist, specializing in pelvic health, orthopedic, and obstetric physical therapy. She's the Founder and President of Mama Bear PT-- a completely virtual practice, supporting families and birthing people from pregnancy through postpartum.You can find her at her website here, AND you can put any of Dr. Helene's services on your custom registry by clicking here!***Shout out to Zayacare-- which is another platform dedicated to connecting families with providers and getting providers the pay they deserve. We're doing it on the gift end of things, they're doing it on the insurance end of it.This episode is one that makes you want to get up and do something to make some changes happen for birthing families and vagina owners!Enjoy!

In this interview, Kaitlin-- founder of Be Her Village talks to Janalyn Pomeroy, a birth and postpartum doula. Janalyn's story is really cool in that she started supporting pregnant and birthing moms while working in an adoption agency. She was actually doing doula work before she knew there was a name for it. We hear how she came to be a doula (officially)-working with families in pregnancy, birth, and postpartum (all while being a mom of three).In this episode they talk about what doulas do, how they support families during birth and postpartum. They dispel some myths around doulas-- that they're not just for “the crunchy granola moms” but that they support a range of parents-- from homebirths to scheduled c-sections.  And they talk about how important ongoing support is for new parents after baby is born; that it feels new and a little hard to navigate whether it's the first or fifth baby. Everybody deserves support!Janalyn is one of our support providers on Be Her Village, supporting the new mamas and families on Long Island. Find out more about Janalyn and her services here!If you're a doula and you'd like to get your services listed on our website, it's completely FREE! Get started here!If you're a mama, a dad, or anyone stepping into parenthood, you owe it to yourself to get the support you want and deserve. Create a registry here!

In this week's episode of the Be Her Village Podcast, Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village talks with Andrea Costanzo, owner of Wonders Of My Belly (W.O.M.B.) an at home sonography experience. Andrea has been part of gender reveal parties, part of intimate moments with extended family and relatives, as well as being an integral part in keeping families connected to their sonogram experience during Covid. In this episode they talk about what the home sonography experience is like, that gender disappointment is a real and normal thing, and how WOMB is changing the way people connect to their bellies.You can find Andrea and her services on the Be Her Village gift registry.Let us know what you think of this episode!

In this Father's Day episode, Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village talks to Link Moser, Owner of Windhill Design and proud dad of five! They talk about how even after having multiple children, you still don't know quite what to expect or how your world will shift when you bring home a new baby.  Link acknowledges that there can be some emotional challenges as for dads while they navigating bonding with baby, caring for other children, as well as maintaining a healthy partnership with their partner. Link offers much wisdom to parents, and specifically dads. Some of his pieces of advice are:Acknowledge that parenthood and new-babyhood bring an array of feelings-- and that's normal!Make an investment in your partnershipMaintain an outlet to talk about parenthood Like this episode? Share it with a dad who could use Link's words of wisdom.Do us a favor and rate + review this podcast!And as always, if there's someone in your life who is expecting a baby, give them the best gift of all-- SUPPORT-- which is possible with the Be Her Village online cash gift registry.

Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village talks with Marisa Hughes, LCSW, Maternal Mental Health Specialist, and Trauma Specialist to learn more about birth trauma. Birth trauma doesn't necessarily mean scary and morbid (although in some cases it can), but birth trauma can be, simply, that your birth didn't go the way you planned.Marisa emphasizes the importance of maintaining flexibility in your birth plan as you head into birth, focusing on controlling the things you can, even when  there are many things you can't.We look at the questions: "How do I know if I've experienced birth trauma?""What do I do if I have birth trauma?"This conversation is rich with information to help new mamas prepare for birth as well as helping heal the mamas who might have had a traumatic birth.Marisa Hughes is one of many Maternal Mental Health Specialists listed on the Be Her Village Gift registry.Know a mama who might benefit from hearing this episode? Send it her way!Have a pregnant friend? Introduce them to the most innovative and practical baby registry around: BeHerVillage.com

As a part of the 2021 How I Built This Summit (At Home) we have selected 10 Fellows, and we'd like to introduce you to each of them. In this episode: Kaitlin McGreyes founded Be Her Village to be a gift registry for expectant families that provides more than just...stuff. And Nicole Argüelles founded Alli to address period poverty and provide easy access to personal care and hygiene products in public spaces.How I Built This Summit - information and tickets at:http://summit.npr.org

Join Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village, as she talks to Sowania Germain, maternal mental health specialist, about her experience giving birth as a Black woman, and how her traumatic experience called her to work with mothers. Sowania talks about EMDR therapy and how she uses it to help women heal from birth trauma.  And we have an enlightening conversation about the myth of "strong Black women" and how this idea can be harmful to Black women as they navigate the medical system. This is one episode you don't want to miss!

Join Kaitlin McGreyes, Founder of Be Her Village, and  Heather Simonson, Sex Therapist and Owner of Sea Change Holistic Wellness Center,  as they talk about all the things no one talks about. This new series will release a new episode each week exploring all things sex, parenthood, and everything in between. Birth, motherhood, parenthood, and sexuality are inextricably linked. Let's talk about it! 

When the pandemic and quarantine hit life with small children was extremely stressful and disorienting. As mothers of small children ourselves we saw the need for an outlet and a place for new moms and expectant parents who were also juggling the unique stressors of the pandemic. I reached out to Laura Otton of Therapy for Motherhood and Evelyn Page of Evelyn Page, LCSW (both maternal mental health listed on Be Her Village) and Socially Distant Tea Time was born.Each week we explore the current mood, how we are caring for ourselves as well as our children, and how we are handling tough topics like masks, visiting grandparents, and decisions about camp, daycare, and school.Our episodes now focus on the reopening. These conversations are organic and authentic, never pre-planned. We talk from our perspective as working mothers, quarantined with small children, who work with mothers. Join us!Episodes available on our YouTube channel and podcast! Subscribe to both and never miss an episode! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlbShvw96QABe Her Village is running a free 6 month trial for businesses that serve mothers. Sign up today: www.behervillage.com/partners/plansFollow Be Her Village

In this episode Laura Otton, LCSW and Be Her Village founder, Kaitlin McGreyes, discuss the implications of COVID-19 on maternal mental health.

Maternal Mental Health specialists Evelyn Page and Laura Otten sit down with Kaitlin McGreyes, founder of Be Her Village, to talk about week 6 of quarantine and how we can continue to cope with the ever evolving challenges of life in the time of COVID-19.

Sitting down with Ashley Meccariello, Gaia Midwife and best friend of Be Her Village founder, Kaitlin McGreyes. We laugh a whole lot and remember how we met and the challenges we faced on our way to becoming friends.