Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Artificial intelligence is rapidly changing how agencies operate. But the real shift isn't just about tools. It's about structure, mindset, and leadership. Today's featured guest has taken the time to explore how agencies are adapting to AI, why many agencies will struggle to survive the shift, and how founders must evolve alongside the technology. From building AI-native workflows to maintaining authentic brand connections in an automated world, the conversation highlights a central theme: agencies that stay curious and adaptable will win. Those that cling to "the way we've always done it" won't. Brian Hansen is the founder of Rocket Pilots, a marketing agency focused exclusively on helping law firms grow their revenue through targeted marketing strategies. Unlike generalist agencies, Rocket Pilots operates within a single vertical, allowing the team to develop deep industry expertise and deliver highly specialized services. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why it's a good idea to be fully AI-native. The cultural shift your agency should be making. Why average agencies will struggle the most with the rise of AI. Why the future belongs to curious founders. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Toggl: Most agencies are losing 15–30% of their profit every year: lack of time tracking, messy manual timesheets, scope creep, untracked revisions, and all those "quick" client requests that never get billed. Toggl has created a fast, interactive way to uncover exactly where your margins are leaking. Start your investigation now at toggl.com/smartagency and use the code SMARTAGENCY10 at checkout for a 10% off annual plans. Starting Out Without a Niche in Mind Brian didn't start his agency with a legal niche in mind. In fact, he openly admits he ended up finding his current niche by doing it 'the hard way'. Early on, his agency worked with multiple industries and offered a wide range of services. But over time, he realized that focusing on what the agency did best, and who they served best, produced better results for both clients and the agency itself. That insight led to a clear decision: narrow the offering, specialize in the legal space, and deliver exceptional outcomes. Today, he is focused on the next evolution of agency operations: building an AI-native agency environment that allows teams to work faster, smarter, and more efficiently. Why Agencies Must Become "AI Native" Right now, Brian is focused on his agency becoming fully AI native, which goes far beyond occasionally using ChatGPT or experimenting with AI tools. Instead, becoming AI native means designing your agency's internal systems and workflows so that AI can effectively operate within them. This includes something as foundational as how documents are stored and organized. If agencies want to use custom AI models or assistants to help with strategy, writing, research, and execution, those systems need structured data and clear documentation. Without that foundation, AI cannot function as a true multiplier. Because of this, Brian's team is currently restructuring their internal systems from file organization to documentation so AI tools can access the context needed to support their work. When done properly, AI doesn't just speed up tasks; it becomes an operational layer that enhances every role in the company. In other words, agencies shouldn't simply "use AI." They should build their operations around it. The Cultural Shift Agencies Need to Make Technology alone won't determine which agencies succeed in the AI era. Culture will. Founders are often the first people inside an agency to explore new technologies. They test tools, build systems, and experiment with new capabilities long before the rest of the team adopts them. But that dynamic can create a dangerous knowledge gap if the rest of the organization doesn't follow. Brian believes agencies must actively create a culture where employees are encouraged and even required to experiment with AI tools and share what they learn. Teams should be discussing new workflows, sharing AI "wins," and constantly asking how the technology can improve their work. Employees who treat AI as a partner, rather than a threat, will become dramatically more valuable inside modern agencies. Instead of replacing talent, AI often amplifies it by allowing team members to operate like high-level project managers directing intelligent systems. Agencies that embrace this cultural shift will gain a major competitive advantage. Why Average Agencies Will Struggle At the start of the internet era, traditional agencies that dismissed how this new development would change agencies forever were the ones to set themselves up for failure and many of them disappeared within a few years. Likewise, the agencies most at risk in the coming years are the ones stuck in the middle. They aren't exceptional specialists. They aren't deeply innovative. And they rely on the same processes they've used for years. History has shown what happens to businesses that ignore major technological shifts and Jason believes AI represents a similar moment. Agencies that remain average, offering undifferentiated services without leveraging new technology, will find themselves squeezed by faster, more efficient competitors. At the same time, the agencies that thrive will be those that use AI to enhance strategy, creativity, and efficiency rather than simply automate low-level tasks. The future won't belong to agencies that resist change. It will belong to those that adapt faster than the market expects. Authentic Branding Still Matters in an AI World Despite the rise of automation, and maybe even because of it, authentic human connection remains essential and is becoming even more valuable. As AI-generated content becomes more common, audiences are becoming increasingly skilled at recognizing it. Automated comments, generic posts, and AI-generated personas rarely create real engagement or trust. That's why personal branding and authentic communication will continue to matter. Agencies that build real relationships with their audience through thoughtful content, real insights, and genuine expertise will stand out in a crowded digital environment. While AI can accelerate content production, it cannot replace credibility, experience, or trust. Those elements must still come from real people. The Role Evolution Every Agency Founder Must Make Beyond technology, Jason has seen that agency growth ultimately depends on the evolution of the founder's role. Most agency founders begin by doing everything themselves. They sell, deliver work, manage clients, and handle operations. Over time, they may become managers overseeing teams. But long-term agency growth requires another transition from manager to architect and CEO. At that level, the founder is no longer executing daily work. Instead, they design the systems, structure, and strategy that allow the organization to scale independently. Eventually, the ultimate goal is reaching the role of true owner, where the agency can operate successfully without constant founder involvement. AI tools can accelerate this evolution by automating operational complexity, but the mindset shift still has to come from the founder. Technology alone doesn't create scale. Leadership does. The Future Belongs to Curious Founders If there's one trait that will define successful agency leaders in the coming decade, it's curiosity. The AI landscape changes almost weekly. New tools, new capabilities, and new opportunities appear constantly. Founders who stay curious, experimenting, testing, and learning, will continue to find ways to adapt. Those who assume they already know enough will fall behind. For agency owners, the challenge isn't simply adopting AI tools. It's building organizations that evolve alongside the technology. The agencies that do that won't just survive the AI era. They'll lead it. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Do you assume a very complicated report will guarantee clients appreciate all the work you're putting into generating leads for their business? It may end up having the opposite effect. Many agency founders assume their biggest challenge is generating leads or improving campaign performance. However, a deeper issue becomes clear in today's conversation: most agencies end up losing clients due to unclear values and outdated operating models. Our featured guest will unpack how agencies and financial service firms face strikingly similar structural problems. From vague service promises to bloated processes and inefficient teams, both industries are being forced to evolve, especially as automation and AI raise expectations around speed, clarity, and decision-making. Nathan Jenson is a former agency owner, current CFO of Badass Bookkeeping, and CEO of askQuick.ai, a service that connects with QuickBooks to show you what's really going on in your business. He's made it his mission to connect business owners to their numbers so they can make smarter decisions. Nathan has appeared on the podcast before, and since his last visit, he rebuilt his business model using a very different philosophy, one centered around automation, operational simplicity, and minimizing dependency on large teams. Having sold a previous company that relied heavily on people and manual processes, he focused on building a scalable financial services business that runs on systems, not headcount. His experience working closely with agency owners gives him a unique perspective on where agencies get stuck and why many founders unknowingly create the very bottlenecks holding their companies back. In this episode, we'll discuss: Are you earning clients' trust? How complex reports just confuse clients How automation is reshaping expectations Why headcount is not a measure of success Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Herringbone Digital: If you're thinking about exiting now, planning a few years ahead, or just want to understand your options, you should know about Herringbone Digital. They're not a typical financial buyer. They're operators who actually understand what it takes to build and scale an agency because they've done it themselves. Their approach is simple: invest in great founders, protect what's already working, and help agencies scale faster. Go to https://www.herringbonedigital.com/swenk and start the conversation. Why Clients Lose Trust in Agencies Many agencies assume clients judge them primarily on campaign performance, but the reality is more nuanced. Often, clients cannot tell whether the agency is succeeding or failing because it fails to clearly communicate what success should look like in the first place. In his experience as a client, despite spending significant money on paid advertising, social campaigns, and LinkedIn outreach over several years, Nate found he was getting almost no meaningful leads. As a client, the experience felt like throwing money into a black box. When this is the case, the disconnect typically originates from one of two traps: Agencies fail to deliver meaningful results Or they fail to communicate the results they did deliver In both cases, the outcome is identical: clients feel uncertain about the value they are receiving. This communication gap becomes even more dangerous in an era where AI tools can produce reports, insights, and dashboards instantly. If agencies continue delivering confusing reports full of jargon or technical metrics, clients will increasingly turn to tools that can interpret their data more clearly. Simply put: clarity is now a competitive advantage. Are You Proving Your Expertise or Just Confusing Clients? Nate has stories from practicing in accounting agencies that perfectly mirror what happens in marketing agencies. A business owner once hired him to replace a fractional CFO who had been sending him financial reports packed with complicated spreadsheets, amortization schedules, and technical accounting data. The problem wasn't that the reports were wrong. The client just had no idea what any of it meant. From the client's perspective, the reports were useless. This behavior exists across many professional services industries. Experts often overcomplicate reporting to demonstrate expertise, but this usually has the opposite effect. When a client receives pages of technical information they cannot interpret, they assume one of two things: Either the service provider is hiding something. Or the service provider doesn't understand the client's real priorities. What clients actually want is simple: Are we improving? Are we losing money somewhere? What should we do next? If agencies cannot answer those questions clearly, they risk looking indistinguishable from competitors who truly underperform. Automation Is Reshaping Operational Expectations Nate rebuilt his current company around one principle: automate everything that doesn't require human judgment. In accounting, that means allowing software to categorize transactions, generate reports, and monitor financial performance automatically. Tools like QuickBooks already provide rule-based automation that eliminates much of the manual work bookkeepers traditionally perform. By implementing these systems, Nate reduced massive amounts of operational labor. For example, many of his financial analyses once required one to two hours of preparation per client each month. Now, automated systems can generate those reports instantly, allowing him to spend his time interpreting insights rather than compiling data. This shift mirrors what is happening inside agencies. Marketing platforms, analytics tools, and AI assistants increasingly handle tasks that once required teams of specialists. Campaign reporting, performance insights, and forecasting can now be generated in seconds. This means that the agencies with the biggest advantage will be the ones with the best systems, not with the biggest team, as it used to be. In fact, automation allows firms to grow without proportional increases in staffing, which dramatically improves profitability and scalability. Why Headcount Is a Dangerous Measure of Success Like many founders, Nate used to think that growth meant hiring more people and building a larger organization. Eventually, his company reached around ten employees, and the reality of management set in. Instead of freedom, he experienced something different: constant oversight, quality control issues, and the stress of managing people who struggled to perform consistently. Some employees were exceptional and could operate independently. Others required constant supervision. The experience revealed a harsh truth about scaling service businesses: more employees do not automatically mean more leverage. In fact, hiring the wrong people often creates new bottlenecks for the founder. When founders must constantly review work, answer questions, and correct mistakes, they become even more central to the business than before. That realization pushed Nate to design his new company focusing first on systems and automation before expanding the team. The Evolution of the Founder's Role When it comes to owners who end up reviewing everyone's work and involved in every decision, we all know this happens too much in the industry. This is basically a failure in evolving the founder's role as the agencies grow: Operator – Doing everything yourself Manager – Hiring and supervising people Architect – Designing systems, processes, and structure CEO – Leading strategy and company direction Owner – The business runs independently True scalability begins when founders transition into the architect role, designing systems that allow the company to operate consistently without their constant involvement. The Structural Next Step for Agency Founders The agencies that struggle over the next few years won't fail because of marketing tactics. They'll fail because their operating models never evolved. Clients expect clearer outcomes. AI is compressing timelines for analysis and reporting. Automation is reducing the need for manual work. The founders who win will be the ones who stop trying to scale effort and start designing leverage. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agency owners say they want to sell someday… but they're building something completely unsellable. The mistake? Not only a lack of a clear vision for the future of their agency, but also a lack of understanding of what they'll need to build a sellable agency. If you're an agency owner planning to sell one day, do you understand what buyers are usually looking for? Do you know which type of buyer you're hoping to attract? Today's featured guest understands that most agencies are acquired by private equity and built the private equity partner he felt was missing in the space. He'll talk about what actually drives valuation, what kills deals, and how to build an agency that buyers want to compete for. Ben Gaddis is the former founder of T3, a digital agency he sold to private equity in 2019. After going through multiple acquisitions himself, he now runs an operator-led private equity firm focused exclusively on tech-enabled service and agency businesses. As a former owner who's been on both sides of the table, he knows exactly what buyers are thinking. In this episode, we'll discuss: What are private equity companies looking for in agencies? Recurring revenue vs. retention What would actually increase your agency's valuation? If the goal is talent, should you consider an acquisition? Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Toggl: Most agencies are losing 15–30% of their profit every year: lack of time tracking, messy manual timesheets, scope creep, untracked revisions, and all those "quick" client requests that never get billed. Toggl has created a fast, interactive way to uncover exactly where your margins are leaking. Start your investigation now at toggl.com/smartagency and use the code SMARTAGENCY10 at checkout for a 10% off annual plans. What Private Equity Actually Looks For (It's Not What You Think) The reality is that most private equity companies are looking to buy a couple of agencies to slam them together and eventually sell them for more. Based on this, agency owners have an idea of what these buyers want and mostly focus on revenue or EBITDA. According to Ben, however, buyers are looking at a few core things first: Client concentration Recurring or predictable revenue Net revenue retention Founder dependency (aka key-person risk) Clear vision and differentiation Let's start with client concentration. A lot of owners panic if one client makes up 20% of revenue. Some PE firms get nervous at 10%. But Ben brings nuance here. If you've landed and retained a $2–3M client for years, that's proof you can serve at a high level. That's powerful. The issue isn't just one big client. It's when your top 3–5 clients make up 50–60% of revenue. That's where it gets risky. If you're in that position, you already feel it. One bad email. One procurement shift. One budget freeze. And your stomach drops. That's not a valuation problem. That's a freedom problem. Recurring Revenue vs. Retention (The Smarter Metric) Everyone argues about contracts. "Should I lock clients into 12 months?" "Should we go month-to-month?" Ben argues that the real metric is net revenue retention. If you're at 90–100%+ retention, buyers don't care as much about contract length. He shared a case where they bought a company with almost zero recurring revenue but 115% net revenue retention. Clients kept buying more. The business was healthy. The packaging just needed to change. This is huge for agencies stuck in custom project hell. Sometimes it's not your service. It's how you position and sell it. Are you framing projects as standalone deliverables or as phases in a longer journey? If you're stuck working in the business and scrambling for the next sale, this is where to look first. Integration > Financial Engineering There are two types of buyers: Financial engineers smashing agencies together to increase multiples Operator-led firms building real integrated offerings Ben sees a lot of "fake integration." Agencies get acquired, but nothing truly connects. No shared systems. No real cross-sell. No operational synergy. Sophisticated buyers see through that immediately. What actually increases valuation? Additive capability. Does one service naturally lead to another? Does it solve a deeper problem for the same buyer? Does it expand wallet share within the same account? If you're thinking about acquisitions, don't buy revenue. Buy strategic fit. Otherwise, you're just running two companies under one logo. Growing Through Acquisition (And When Not To) A lot of 7-figure agency owners hit a wall where they can't hire fast enough and start to feel overwhelmed. The team depends on them. Growth feels capped. So they think: "Maybe I should acquire" and figure they should start small, as it seems easier than going through a big acquisition. Buying a bigger company or doing a merger of equals is certainly complicated in terms of defining who's in charge and which brand should remain. So, it should be a very complementary offer with a clear leader for it to make sense. This would be much clearer when buying a smaller business. However, here's the thing: Small acquisitions are just as hard as big ones. The legal, the integration, the emotional complexity, it's all real. If you've never done one before, the odds of it going smoothly are low. If the goal is talent… why not build offshore first? With AI and real-time translation tools, the global talent pool is radically more accessible than it was even five years ago. A lot of agency owners avoid offshore because it failed before. But the game has changed. If your bottleneck is hiring, you might not need to buy an agency. You might need to rethink your talent strategy. How to Prepare for a Sale (Even If You're Not Selling) This is where most deals fall apart, and Ben believes it's important for owners to try to cover any gaps in knowledge. Try to learn as much as you can about the process and the buyer to better understand their expectations. And if you still have questions, then don't hesitate to ask! Some aspects that owners may not understand and that you should start learning about: Working capital expectations Accrual vs. cash accounting Quality of Earnings (QofE) reviews Data cleanliness Revenue tagging Furthermore, Ben recommends something most owners never do: Run your own QofE before going to market. Know your skeletons. Track secured revenue. At the start of each year, how much revenue is already locked in? If that number consistently grows year over year, that's powerful. Buyers will ask about revenue by capability, revenue by sales rep, revenue by region, and client concentration by top 3/5/10. If your data is messy, you lose leverage. And if you're thinking, "I'll figure that out when I'm ready to sell," you're already behind. Vision Is the Real Multiplier Right now, Ben is seeing a lack of vision + execution alignment. AI is reshaping agency models in real time. Entire categories of services didn't exist a few months ago. The agencies that win won't just be efficient. They'll have a tight, clear, communicated vision. Agencies won't scale just because of a tactic. They'll scale because the vision was clear enough that the team could make decisions without the owner. If your team can't make decisions without you, that's not a people problem. That's a vision problem. And that's also why you're still stuck in fulfillment. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training How are you protecting yourself from the real risk of owner burnout? Agency owners often burn out because they built a business that depends entirely on them. Today's featured guest is a former agency owner turned AI SaaS founder. He'll unpack what really caused his agency collapse, what he learned from it, and how he rebuilt from a completely different role. Austin Armstrong is the owner of Syllaby, a tool for social media marketing that helps users create their very own realistic digital clone to personalize their marketing efforts, allowing them to forge a deeper connection with their audience. Austin spent over a decade in the agency world, working his way up from intern to running an agency before launching his own. For a while, it worked, until the cracks appeared. His agency was built around organic marketing and heavily centered on his personal brand. High months meant hiring fast. Low months meant wondering if payroll would clear. When a few large clients (that accounted for about 60% of monthly revenue) churned, the instability became unbearable. So Austin made his tech pivot and moved to starting Syllaby, which also came with a role pivot. More recently, he just released his first book Virality and is the co-founder of the upcoming AI marketing World conference. In this episode, we'll discuss: From agency failure to early AI adopter Why the founder bottleneck is emotional The founder evolution model AI exposes weaknesses Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Making the Decision to Be an Early Adopter When he started Syllaby, Austin could already see the writing on the wall with AI. He was already not happy navigating the agency world, so the question was, "Do I want to place a bet as an early adopter of this technology? Potentially cannibalizing my own agency?" He spoke with several clients and business owners and came to the conclusion that most people hire an agency because they know they need to create content to be relevant, but didn't know how to pick the right topics, and in many cases didn't want to be on camera. They needed help staying consistent and accountable. Some of them don't even have the money to hire an agency, but still have a message and an expertise to share. So Austin started to look for ways to automate those processes using AI. The Founder Bottleneck Is Emotional Before It's Operational The emotional weight of the unraveling of Austin's agency was real. Nightmares about client complaints. Constant vigilance. Inability to disconnect. Eventually, he decided to make a bet on AI and launched Syllaby, an AI-powered content platform designed to automate much of what agencies manually execute, from topic discovery to scripting to publishing. Now, looking back, he sees his agency's failure came from several mistakes. It wasn't bad marketing or lack of demand. It was structural dependency. The agency relied on: His personal brand His client relationships His decision-making His emotional capacity When large clients churned, revenue collapsed because concentration risk hadn't been designed out of the model. When delivery required nuance, he couldn't step away because "he stirred the pot." This is the Operator trap. The Founder Evolution Model Most founders believe they own an agency. In reality, the agency owns them. What is supposed to happen as your agency evolves is that your role in it evolves as follows: Operator → Manager → Architect → CEO → Owner At the Operator level: Sales depends on you. Delivery depends on you. Escalations go to you. Pricing goes through you. And when you focus on one area, another suffers. Systems Create Freedom But They Also Create Identity Shifts As the owner, being needed feels good and letting go feels disorienting. Austin acknowledged this tension. In his agency, clients wanted him. Even with SOPs, some work required nuance. Some of it was ego. Some of it was positioning. Some of it was hiring the wrong people in the wrong seats. Having learned his lesson, things look very different in his SaaS company, where he can rely on strong partners, defined ownership, AI-supported workflows, and clear decision rights. Now he can disappear for two weeks, go skiing with family, speak at events, and the business doesn't break. AI Exposes Weakness All over the industry owners agree that AI isn't replacing strong agencies. It's exposing weak ones. At Syllaby, Austin has integrated AI so much is hard to think where he DOESN'T use it. He automates what many agencies sell manually: SEO-based topic discovery Script generation Video creation Scheduling and publishing For smaller businesses, this lowers the barrier to entry. For agencies, it creates leverage. Which tool are owners using? This varies from time to time. What you should be doing is testing them all out to see which ones work better for you, as well as creating a brief with all the information you'll need in case you decide to migrate to a different tool. Jason calls this his "AI Operating Brief", a master document loaded with: Company positioning Customer data Success stories CRM insights Transcripts Strategic principles Once embedded into AI tools, it eliminates repetitive context-setting and removes founder bottlenecks. Austin does something similar with what he calls his "Austin Codex", years of content, frameworks, and intellectual property housed inside AI models. The result is institutional memory without constant founder involvement. Time Audits Reveal the Hidden Ceiling Austin is a big fan of the full-time audit exercise: For one to two weeks, document: Every task Start and end times Whether it's mandatory or optional Your enjoyment level The dollar value of your time The outcome is uncomfortable. Once you're done, you'll see which $10 tasks eating $1,000/hour time, the emotional drain disguised as "important work", and the distractions masquerading as urgency. He outsourced email management, calendar coordination, travel booking — all consolidated into a daily executive summary delivered where he actually spends time. Not because he can't do it, but because he shouldn't. The bigger lesson: you don't scale an agency… you outgrow your role. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you winning exciting projects but still feeling exhausted at the end of every quarter? Does your agency look successful from the outside, yet feel fragile or chaotic behind the scenes? For most agency owners, the real struggle isn't creativity. It's sustainability. The real challenge begins after the win, when you have to deliver consistently, protect your margins, manage your team, and somehow still have the energy to lead. Michael Boychuk is the founder and creative director of DNA&Stone, a creative agency that deals in real emotion and embrace the hard truth, understanding that brands that connect emotionally see 50% higher revenue growth. He'll talk about scaling creatively led agencies, navigating mergers, embracing productive conflict, and integrating AI without sacrificing emotional storytelling. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why creative isn't enough The merger process Embracing tension & clear swim lanes in partnerships Set audacious goals or stay average Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Toggl: Most agencies are losing 15–30% of their profit every year: lack of time tracking, messy manual timesheets, scope creep, untracked revisions, and all those "quick" client requests that never get billed. Toggl has created a fast, interactive way to uncover exactly where your margins are leaking. Start your investigation now at toggl.com/smartagency and use the code SMARTAGENCY10 at checkout for a 10% off annual plans. Leaving Amazon to Start a Creative Agency Michael's career began in small, strategy-led creative shops before moving to Leo Burnett in Chicago. Eventually, he crossed to the client side as Global Executive Creative Director at Amazon, working closely on major brand initiatives. While many creatives were moving in-house at the time, Michael saw the gap in how external agencies worked with internal creative teams. Even the most respected agencies struggled to collaborate effectively with in-house counterparts. So he made the decision to leave Amazon to start his own agency. He co-founded Little Hands of Stone (later merging to become DNA&Stone), building a nimble, creatively driven agency with operational discipline at its core. The goal wasn't to be another agency in a crowded market. It was to build one that worked differently. The Project Roller Coaster: Why Great Creative Isn't Enough In the early years, Michael and his partner excelled at landing high-impact project work. The agency would scale up quickly, execute powerful campaigns, and then scale back down. The upside: Strong margins. The downside: Revenue volatility. Some months were record-breaking. Others were terrifying. This feast-or-famine model made it difficult to invest in long-term infrastructure, particularly account management and relationship-building functions that sustain retainer revenue. As Michael put it, scaling into projects and rapidly reducing afterward may be profitable, but it's not easily sustainable. That realization set the stage for a major shift. The Merger: Combining Creative Firepower with Account Stability After years of competing against DNA, Michael's firm began merger conversations. His six-year-old, creatively led shop was volatile but high-impact. DNA, a 26-year-old agency, had stable retainer revenue and strong account leadership. They were opposites and that made them perfect. The nine-month merger process was far more complex than expected. Michael describes it as "drawing up a marriage certificate." But strategically, it functioned like a time machine, instantly solving growth limitations both firms faced independently. However, merging on paper is easy. Operationalizing it while "building the plane during barrel rolls" is the real challenge. One year later, they're still refining the model and balancing creative ambition with financial discipline. Account Management vs. Creative Leadership One of the biggest lessons Michael learned post-merger is the value of strong account leadership. Creative leaders tend to chase the next exciting idea. Account leaders think in terms of long-term relationships, financial discipline, and sustainable growth. You need both. Rather than avoid tension, the four partners embrace it. Michael believes healthy conflict is essential. If there's no disagreement, you're probably not addressing the real issues. But the key is respectful conflict rooted in trust. They operate with: Clear swim lanes (each partner has decision authority in their domain) Open debate before decisions 100% alignment after decisions are made No back-channel dissent or lingering resentment. Only unified execution. Embrace the AI Wave But Protect the Emotion Michael doesn't sugarcoat his views on AI. If agencies aren't actively integrating AI into workflows and developing proprietary approaches, they risk irrelevance. But he also warns against overcorrection. Yes, AI improves efficiency and enhances pre-visualization and brainstorming. Yes, it can increase margins. But creative agencies aren't data-processing factories. They're emotional engines. In his view, the industry is currently drowning in data while starving for emotional resonance. AI can create competent output but it often carries a detectable "stink," a subtle lack of human nuance. He chooses to use AI to: enable better creative. improve efficiency. remove bottlenecks. However, it should not be used to replace emotional storytelling. Because humans still crave human connection and no algorithm can replicate lived experience. Set Audacious Goals or Stay Average The biggest lesson Michael took from his time at Amazon working directly with Jeff Bezos was to set ambitious goals. After campaigning to have an Amazon ad during the Super Bowl, he got Jeff's attention and set out to create a top-five Super Bowl ad. But during development, director Wayne McClammy challenged him: "Why aim for top five? Why not number one?" That shift in ambition changed everything. Every decision became filtered through one question: Is this the move that gets us to #1? The resulting product was the "Alexa Loses Her Voice" Super Bowl spot featuring Cardi B and Anthony Hopkins. And, yes, it was ranked the number one Super Bowl ad that year. The lesson for him was about standards. If your goals don't make you nervous, they're not big enough. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training AI is either the end of agencies… or the biggest opportunity we've had since the internet. Most agree it's the second one. Agencies that are winning right now are combining SEO, GEO, AEO, and LLM optimization so they show up everywhere decisions are being made. They're using AI to increase leverage, not replace thinking. And they're restructuring their teams around strategy, insight, and proprietary data instead of repetitive task work. Today's featured guest will discuss why SEO isn't dead (it just grew up), the biggest mistake agencies are making with AI, how to 10x output without adding headcount, and why your unique data is the unfair advantage that separates you from every other agency prompting ChatGPT and hoping for magic. Terry Zelen is the founder of Zelen Communications, a 35-year-old agency that pivoted aggressively into AI over the last three years. He's helping clients win visibility across both search engines and large language models (LLMs) and even building AI tools internally to reduce hallucinations and improve accuracy. Terry has a degree in marine biology, so marketing wasn't the master plan. After college, he tried breaking into the creative world with zero portfolio and got laughed out of the room; until one person gave him a shot. He worked for free, proved himself, connected with a freelance rep, and slowly worked his way up through the agency ranks. He eventually transitioned from freelancer to agency owner by acquiring his own accounts and building relationships locally in Tampa. Fast forward three decades and now he's helping clients navigate AI, LLM visibility, and what modern SEO really looks like. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why SEO is more complicated now, but agencies willing to adapt can still win How LLM visibility will win you business AI: The greatest leverage small businesses have ever had Building an AI consensus engine Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. SEO Is Not Dead. It's Just Way More Complicated There's a lot of noise right now around "SEO is dead" or "zero-click internet." But that's an oversimplification. SEO isn't going away. It's evolving. Today, it's not just SEO. It's: GEO (Generative Engine Optimization) AEO (Answer Engine Optimization) Local SEO EEAT (Experience, Expertise, Authority, Trust) Search intent In other words, visibility is the game. Not just ranking in Google, but showing up in LLMs like ChatGPT, Gemini, and Perplexity. Terry points out that while snippets and AI-generated summaries are increasing, people still want to verify sources. They're not buying a couch because an LLM told them it's the best. They'll still visit sites, compare options, and validate credibility. Backlinks, structured content, schema, quality. It all still matters. What's different is that now you're playing the game with Google and the LLMs. How LLM Visibility Actually Wins Business This isn't theoretical. Terry shared a story of a client who builds modular classroom buildings. A school district searched for "best mobile building producer in Florida" and the client showed up in a snippet. That visibility led directly to a new contract. So you're no longer optimizing just for rankings. You're optimizing to be the referenced authority when AI generates an answer. That means you better have structured content, clear positioning, backlinks, authority signals, and presence on surfaces LLMs scrape (including platforms like Reddit, though that's evolving). The agencies that understand this shift can bolt on new services like AI SEO or GEO and, in some cases, significantly increase revenue. But there's a catch. This space is evolving fast. What works today might not work next quarter. That's why Terry avoids gray-hat tactics and focuses on fundamentals. AI Is the Greatest Leverage Small Agencies Have Ever Had Terry believes this might be the most exciting time ever for small agencies because AI has eliminated barriers that used to require massive budgets. When a small restaurant client wanted a red snapper on a black background for their website, stock photography didn't cut it and real shoot would've required a diver, photographer, cooperative fish and a significant budget. Instead, they used Midjourney to create the image. Then they animated it so the fins and gills subtly moved. The client was blown away. For a small restaurant, this level of visual production used to be impossible. Now it's affordable and scalable. That's the opportunity. Agencies can deliver higher-quality creative, faster, and at lower cost if they know how to use the tools. A Very Real Fear for Future Marketers Terry regularly speaks to marketing students who are worried AI will take their jobs. What he tells them is that AI won't take your job, but someone who knows how to use AI will. The key is not blind reliance. It's intelligent leverage. AI is excellent at: Research Proposal drafting Competitive analysis First drafts of content Summarizing data What used to take weeks can now take hours. That frees your team from repetitive, dreaded tasks and allows them to focus on strategy, creativity, and client impact. But there's a danger in over-reliance. Too many agencies are slapping "AI" on everything without adding original thinking or proprietary data. Your edge isn't that you use AI. Your edge is your data. Every agency has unique client data, performance metrics, positioning, and experience. When you combine that with AI, that's where real leverage happens. Building a Consensus Engine to Reduce AI Hallucinations One of the more advanced things Terry is experimenting with is what he calls a "consensus engine." The problem with LLMs is that they're probabilistic, not deterministic. Ask the same question twice and you'll get two slightly different answers. They also hallucinate. To combat this, Terry built a workflow using N8N (a Zapier-like automation tool) that runs content through multiple LLMs. One writes it. Another critiques it. The final output must pass both systems before it's considered valid. If they disagree, it's sent back through with adjusted parameters. He's also exploring how different LLMs perform best in different roles: Perplexity for real-time research ChatGPT for writing Claude for programming Instead of treating AI as one tool, he's assembling a stack of specialized tools. That mindset shift, thinking like a systems architect instead of a prompt typist, is what separates surface-level AI use from strategic advantage. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agency owners don't fail because they're bad at delivery. They fail because they underprice, overcomplicate, and build businesses that trap them instead of freeing them. Today's featured guest unpacks the type of life he envisioned when he set out to start an agency, it took to scale from charging $2,500 a month to closing $45,000/month retainers, surviving a market collapse, and making the counterintuitive decision to split one agency into two. Eli Rubel is the founder of Matter Made, a B2B SaaS marketing agency, and No Boring Design, a premium design studio serving high-growth tech companies. He entered the agency world in 2019 after burning out on the venture-backed SaaS model, despite a previous exit. What drew him to agencies wasn't prestige or scale; it was a desire to take control over his time, lifestyle, income, and location. Agencies, when built correctly, offered the fastest path to freedom without sacrificing ambition. Over the next few years, Eli scaled MatterMade aggressively, navigated a brutal tech downturn, and rebuilt his business with sharper positioning, stronger pricing, and clearer operational boundaries. In this episode, we discussed: Why hiking prices was the right choice early one How and why he decided to create his second agency The reason that shared services failed fast Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Toggl: Agencies could be losing 15–30% of their profit every year without seeing it. The usual suspects are time tracking, messy manual timesheets, scope creep, untracked revisions, and all those "quick" client requests that never get billed. That's why Toggl created the Agency Profit Heist, a fast, interactive way to uncover exactly where your margins are leaking. Start your investigation now at toggl.com/smartagency and use the code SMARTAGENCY10 at checkout for a 10% off annual plans. Why Agencies Beat Venture-Backed SaaS (If You Want Freedom) After years in venture-backed SaaS, chasing growth at all costs, Eli was done with a model he realized was grinding him down. The pressure, the lack of control, and the delayed payoff didn't align with what he actually wanted: family, flexibility, and financial independence. Agencies offered speed to cash and autonomy, which SaaS didn't. Instead of swinging for a hypothetical future exit, Eli chose a business model that paid well now and let him design his life intentionally. It was a shift he made with eyes wide open and clear expectations. The "best" business model depends on what you want your life to look like. For Eli, agencies weren't a step down. They were a strategic upgrade. Hiking His Prices Relying on Capacity and Confidence Eli's agency launched at $2,500 a month, not because that was the "right" price, but because he backed into a simple income goal. Sixteen clients at $2,500 got him to $40,000 a month. On paper, it worked. In reality, it broke fast. As soon as clients started saying "yes" too quickly, Eli knew something was off. The work was heavy, margins were thin, and building a team at that price point wasn't sustainable. Instead of obsessing over competitive pricing, he leaned into price sensitivity testing. Every time the team hit capacity, prices went up. If prospects said no, it didn't matter, they couldn't take on more work anyway. If prospects said yes, it justified hiring and scaling. Over three years, pricing climbed from $2,500 to $45,000 per month. What he learned was that underpricing doesn't just hurt margins. It traps you in constant hiring, delivery stress, and low-leverage work. Raising prices isn't greedy, it's operational discipline. What Actually Changes When You Raise Prices Eli didn't wake up one day and charge $45,000 for the same work he was doing at $2,500. Early on, the offering was vague: "We'll help with demand gen." Strategy was loose, scope was unclear, and the team was tiny. As pricing increased, the delivery model matured into a defined pod structure with paid media, design, strategy, and leadership baked in. However, once his agency hit around $15,000 per month, the services didn't change much after that. What changed was credibility. Case studies stacked up. Results became undeniable. Sales conversations shifted from "this is a great deal" to "this is what it costs to remove risk." Eli was upfront with prospects: MatterMade would be $10,000–$15,000 more per month than competitors, and nothing about the deliverables would look different. The difference was the track record. For buyers who weren't cash-sensitive, that pitch landed hard. They weren't paying for tasks. They were paying for certainty. Why Splitting One Agency into Two Was the Right Move At its peak in 2021, MatterMade was flying high, with $4.2M in EBITDA, tech clients everywhere, and acquisition talks underway. Then the tech market collapsed. Almost overnight, VC-backed clients cut agencies, froze spending, and hunkered down. They went from crushing it to losing nearly $200,000 a month. Eli held on too long, assuming it was temporary, and paid dearly for it. During the restructuring, Eli noticed something interesting: design had become a bottleneck across tech companies. Designers were laid off, but the need for creative work didn't disappear. So he spun up No Boring Design as a separate entity, fast. New brand, new site, launched in a weekend. Within months, it was profitable. Separating the businesses allowed each to have crystal-clear positioning. MatterMade stayed focused on growth marketing. No Boring Design became a premium creative solution for companies stuck in hiring freezes. Trying to keep design tucked inside the marketing agency would have slowed everything down. Separation created speed, clarity, and growth. Why Shared Services Across Agencies Sound Smart and Fail Fast One of Eli's biggest mistakes came after the split. He tried to create a shared management company to handle leadership, recruiting, and operations across multiple agencies. On paper, it looked efficient. In practice, it was chaos. Each agency had subtle but important differences in how it worked. SOPs drifted. Leaders got stretched thin. The "squeaky wheel" agency got attention while others suffered. Eventually, Eli unwound the entire structure. The hard truth: unless your companies operate almost identically, shared services create more friction than savings. Clarity beats efficiency. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training "How many people can this replace?" is the wrong question to ask about AI. The better question is, "What could my team do if all the busywork disappeared?" Today's featured guest unpacks how he's embedded AI across a 12-year-old agency, why it's increased hiring instead of reducing it, and what it actually takes to make AI stick culturally, not just technically. Gilad Bechar is the founder and CEO of Moburst, a global digital transformation agency that started as a mobile marketing shop and evolved into a full-service growth partner for some of the biggest brands in the world, Google, Microsoft, Uber, Samsung, and more. Over the past 12 years, Moburst has completed five acquisitions and continues to acquire two to three companies per year, intentionally expanding capabilities to become a true one-stop growth shop. In our previous conversation, we talked about acquisitions and scale. This time, we focused on what Gilad calls the next major accelerator: AI. In this episode, we'll discuss: AI is NOT a side project. AI adoption could result in more hiring, not less How your agency team could see AI as a career transformation Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Treating AI as a Strategic Priority, Not a Side Project One of the biggest mistakes agencies make with AI is delegating it too low in the organization. Gilad knew early on that AI wasn't a trend; it was an operational shift. Instead of hiring a junior "AI manager" or tasking a developer with experiments, he hired a VP of AI and gave that role real authority. The mandate was simple but uncomfortable: if you're doing things in 2026 the same way you did them in 2024, you're already behind. That level of change creates friction, especially in senior teams with decades of experience. Gilad was clear that AI adoption couldn't be optional or political. A manager shouldn't have to "fight" a director or VP to change how work gets done. By putting AI leadership at the VP level, Moburst removed that bottleneck entirely. AI wasn't framed as "your work is wrong." It was framed as "your work could be 10x more effective if we rethink the process." They backed this up structurally. Every team has an AI Champion, someone who spends 20–30% of their time driving AI adoption within their department while still doing real client work. On top of that, there's a central AI team building protocols, agents, workflows, and even new products. The result: AI becomes part of how the agency operates, not something people dabble in when they have extra time (which no one ever has). Why AI Led to More Hiring, Not Less There's a persistent fear among agency teams that AI equals layoffs. Gilad's experience has been the opposite. The original internal goal was to increase billable capacity per employee by 50%. On paper, that could mean doing the same revenue with fewer people. In reality, what happened was far more interesting: revenue per employee increased and demand exploded. When Moburst started showing clients what was possible, new automations, new AI-powered offerings, faster insights, smarter execution, it unlocked more budget. Clients didn't just buy services; they bought innovation. They talked about it internally. They shared it with peers. And that momentum brought in larger, more sophisticated opportunities. Gilad shared an example where Moburst won two Fortune 10 companies in Q4, one of which came in looking for a media agency. Media alone would've won the pitch. But what sealed the deal was showing how the brand could improve visibility and positioning across AI-driven discovery platforms like ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Claude. This is the key shift: AI freed up time and raised the ceiling on value. Instead of spending hours exporting spreadsheets, building decks, or manually stitching reports together, teams could focus on thinking, collaborating, and creating new growth levers for clients. That's not a cost-cutting story. That's a growth story. Using AI to Upgrade People, Not Replace Them Another overlooked benefit of AI is internal career transformation. Gilad talked openly about roles that are likely to disappear as platforms automate more of the execution. Media buying is a great example. When Google and Meta are telling the market that campaigns will soon require little more than a credit card and a website, the writing is on the wall. Instead of pretending that isn't happening, he decided to lean into it. Media managers, content managers, and BI specialists were given the opportunity to reskill, moving into AI-focused roles where their domain knowledge still mattered, but their output multiplied. A content manager could become an AI workflow designer. A media buyer could evolve into someone who builds and manages intelligent systems instead of manually tweaking campaigns. This reframes AI from a threat into leverage. Employees aren't stuck defending outdated tasks; they're learning future-proof skills. That mindset shift alone changes morale, retention, and performance. Building a Culture of AI Sharing and Experimentation At his agency, Gilad made sharing AI knowledge non-optional. Every week, AI Champions review what's new in the AI world and translate it into what this means for our teams right now. Monthly hackathons focus the entire team on eliminating one manual process at a time. And then there's AI Week—a multi-day internal event where every team presents what they built, what worked, and what failed. The presentations aren't dry. Teams tell stories. They demo workflows. They show where things broke and how they pivoted. Some even use AI-generated video to walk through the narrative. That transparency matters. Failure isn't hidden, it's shared. And that creates trust, speed, and cross-team learning. One team's solution becomes another team's shortcut. Ideas jump departments. People start asking, "How could this apply to my work?" That's when AI stops being a tool and starts becoming a multiplier. The Bigger Takeaway for Agency Owners You don't need a VP of AI tomorrow. You don't need hackathons or AI week or 16 champions. But you do need to take the first step. AI adoption doesn't start with tools. It starts with ownership. Someone has to be accountable for asking, "If we rebuilt this process today, would we still do it this way?" Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agency owners start out chasing freedom and then wake up one day realizing they've built a job they can't escape. Today's featured guest will unpack what it actually looks like to build a lifestyle-first agency that protects your time, adapts to AI, and still pays the bills without burning you out. She has run a small profitable agency for over a decade without a bloated team, nonstop chaos, or ego-driven "scale at all costs" thinking, and she breaks down how designing your agency backward from your life (not an exit slide) changes everything. Marissa Rosen is the founder of Climate Social, a 10-year-old micro-agency built around flexibility, partnerships, and human-first marketing. She's proof you don't need a bloated team, or chaos to run a sustainable, profitable agency. In this episode, we'll discuss: Deciding to build a lifestyle business Setting clear boundaries that clients learn to respect Adapting roles instead of fighting change Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. The Lifestyle Agency Lie and How to Actually Do It Right Marissa didn't start Climate Social with a master plan to sell it for a giant payday. She knew she cared about climate action, storytelling, and social media, and she wanted a business that fit her life. Ten years later, that intention has paid off in a very real way. Her agency operates as a true lifestyle agency. Marissa works from home, sets her own hours, chooses her clients, and stays deeply involved in the work she enjoys most. The agency provides stability, fulfillment, and income, without requiring her to sacrifice time with her kids or burn herself out chasing scale for scale's sake. While many agency owners seek to build an agency to sell, it's not the plan for everyone, and it's a path that usually comes with years of sacrifice. A lifestyle agency, on the other hand, is available to far more owners if they design intentionally. The key isn't size. It's clarity around what kind of life the agency is meant to support. Setting Rules So Clients Don't Run Your Life One of the biggest traps agency owners fall into is mistaking flexibility for chaos. They start an agency for freedom, then say yes to everything, and suddenly the business owns them. You can avoid this by setting clear, non-negotiable rules. For example, Marissa doesn't take meetings after 3 p.m. Eastern. That's when her kids come home, and her role shifts from founder to mom. Clients know this upfront, and they respect it. Whoever sets the rules first wins. If you don't define boundaries, your clients will do it for you. And once expectations are set early, they're much easier to maintain. From Solo Operator to Partner-Led Agency A major shift in Marissa's business came when she stopped trying to do everything herself. Early on, it was essentially a solo operation. Over time, she transitioned into a partner-based model, bringing in trusted specialists for branding, web development, PR, and other services. This shift removed a massive amount of pressure. Instead of being responsible for sales and delivery and execution, Marissa focuses on strategy, relationships, and assembling the right team for each engagement. Clients get better outcomes, and she gets her time back. This is a critical lesson for agency owners feeling stuck in the weeds. You don't need a huge team to scale intelligently, but you do need to stop being the bottleneck. Leveraging partners is often the fastest way to reclaim bandwidth without blowing up overhead. Adapting Roles Instead of Fighting Change We all know AI has dramatically changed certain services, especially in areas like video production and content creation. Tasks that once took days can now be done faster and cheaper, which has forced agencies to rethink pricing and positioning. But here's the important part: AI hasn't replaced strategy, relationships, or judgment. Clients still need someone to guide them, ask the right questions, and make sure the output actually connects with the right audience. AI is a tool, not a replacement for thinking. In some agencies, traditional media buying roles are being replaced, not eliminated by AI manager roles. Teams aren't shrinking; they're shifting. The agencies winning right now aren't asking, "How do we avoid AI?" They're asking, "How do we use AI to save time and deliver better results?" That mindset opens up new service offerings, new efficiencies, and new value for clients. Your role as an owner shifts from "doing" to directing. For Marissa, marketing is H2H — human to human. Whether it's B2B or B2C doesn't matter as much as people think. At the end of the day, buyers want to know who they're working with, what they stand for, and whether they can trust them. That's why Marissa spends so much time helping founders and executives show up authentically on social media—not just hiding behind a brand logo. AI can help with efficiency. Automation can help with scale. But relationships are still the differentiator. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training AI didn't wipe out SEO; it just exposed who was phoning it in. While some agencies are panicking about AI "stealing their jobs" or racing to the bottom on price, the smart ones are quietly using it to get sharper, more profitable, and more strategic. Today's featured guest has been in the SEO trenches for 15+ years and runs an agency producing millions of words of content every month. He'll break down his perspective on what's actually happening right now, why generic AI content is worthless, how agencies should really be pricing in an AI world, and why this shift is an opportunity to move up-market instead of becoming a commodity. If you run an agency and don't want to be replaced by a robot (or undercut by one), this conversation is for you. David Arato is the founder of Lexicon Legal Content, producing millions of words of SEO content every month for law firms and law-firm marketing agencies across North America. He's been in the SEO game for 15+ years and lived through the AI disruption firsthand. AI is only killing agencies that refuse to adapt The real problem isn't AI Does the SEO vs AEO matter? Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. AI Didn't Kill SEO; It Killed Bad Agencies That Refused to Adapt Probably every agency owner has wondered, "If AI can write content in 30 seconds… why would clients pay us?" over the past couple of years. David had that exact thought in December 2022 when ChatGPT dropped. He literally told his wife he might need to go back to practicing law. Fast forward to now and AI has been nothing but good for business. And that's the part most agency owners are missing. The Real Problem Isn't AI, It's Commoditization According to David, AI removed the barrier to entry for creating generic content. And once everyone can do something, it has no value. That's why blog posts written "for SEO" are dying. Not because content doesn't work, but because copy-paste AI garbage doesn't. Google doesn't care how content is created. They care whether it's helpful, credible, and demonstrates real experience. Especially in "your money, your life" industries like legal, finance, and healthcare. In other words, if your agency's value prop was "we write blog posts," AI exposed how fragile that model was. Why Smart Agencies Are Actually Winning With AI Here's what changed for David's agency, and what should change for yours: Before AI: Writers spent hours on first drafts Margins were capped by human time Strategy was an afterthought After AI: AI handles the grunt work Humans focus on strategy, voice, expertise, and data Content is faster, cheaper to produce, and better That shift matters. Because clients aren't paying for words. They're paying for outcomes. "SEO vs AI Search" Is the Wrong Debate A lot of agencies are stuck arguing: SEO vs AEO SEO vs GEO SEO vs whatever acronym Twitter invents next week Here's the reality: Search is becoming hybrid. This means that, yes, AI overviews now dominate the top of Google. But organic results still matter. Paid is still there. It's all blending together. Which means agencies need to stop selling "SEO deliverables" and start selling search visibility strategy. Same skill set. Bigger mindset. The Pricing Wake-Up Call If you own an agency, you know that clients are asking for more content at lower costs. That's not a threat. It's a forcing function. The agencies that survive will: Increase volume without killing margins Productize strategy Stop selling fulfillment as their core offer The ones that won't? They'll stay stuck in fulfillment, stressed about margins, and quietly resentful of AI. The Real Differentiator Going Forward Everyone has access to the same AI tools. So could clients get the same results by themselves? Not likely What they don't have: Your data. Your experience. Your insights from years in the trenches That's the leverage. And it's why authenticity, real expertise, and human connection are becoming premium assets, whether in content, video, or sales. AI can't shake a hand, AI can't read the room, AI can't replace leadership. That's your unique value proposition. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agencies aren't fragile because of bad systems but because everything runs through the founder. One unexpected hit and the whole thing wobbles. Today's featured guest shares the real-world test no agency owner ever wants: a hemorrhagic stroke that took him out overnight. What happened next is the part every agency owner needs to hear. Because his business didn't collapse. It kept moving, clients stayed, deals closed, and trust carried the weight. If your agency can't function without you, this conversation will feel uncomfortably familiar. Brian Franks is the founder of Where Eagles Dare, a premium branding and storytelling agency working with major retail brands like American Eagle and Five Below. He spent 20+ years rising to VP of Creative at American Eagle before launching his agency over a decade ago. In this episode, we'll discuss: Getting comfortable with a hard question How Brian built a resilient agency Why your network is the real asset Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. If You Got Hit by a Bus, Would Your Agency Survive? Let's get uncomfortable for a second. If you disappeared for 30 days (hospital, burnout, family emergency), would your agency come back stronger, the same… or on fire? Most agency owners don't like that question. Because deep down, they already know the answer. This is a question every agency owner should ask, especially if you're doing $1M–$10M, stuck in fulfillment, carrying everything in your head, and telling yourself, "I'll fix the systems later." Brian didn't plan to test his agency this way. In February 2024, he suffered a hemorrhagic stroke and ended up in the ICU for a brain drain. It took weeks of recovery. No warning. And his agency didn't collapse. Here's why that matters. Brian Didn't Build a "Big" Agency. He Built a Resilient One. Brian spent 20 years at American Eagle, rising from graphic designer to VP of Creative. He worked with massive agencies and saw the billings. He also saw the waste and understood what actually mattered. So when he launched Where Eagles Dare, he didn't chase headcount or ego. He sought to build: A small, senior team A premium positioning Deep relationships, not vendor contracts An agency designed around his strengths That's the part most founders miss. They scale complexity instead of clarity. The Lie Agency Owners Believe A lot of agency owners think freedom comes after scale. More clients → more people → more systems → someday freedom. In reality, that path usually leads to: Team chaos Thin margins Constant Slack pings And a founder who can't unplug without guilt Brian flipped that by staying scrappy, limiting active clients, staying close to the work that mattered, and delegating the rest to people he trusted for years. So when life punched him in the face, the agency stepped up. Your Network Is the Real Asset When Brian went down, his network took over. A former American Eagle CMO stepped in to help lead. His wife helped close a major Five Below deal. Longstanding client relationships stayed solid There was no panic, mass client churn, or revenue freefall. That doesn't happen by accident. That happens when you: Play the long game Treat relationships like equity Build trust before you need it Most agencies don't fail because of bad marketing. They fail because everything depends on the founder. The Question You Can't Ignore If you were gone for a month, would your agency be worse, the same, or better? If the answer scares you, good. Because it means you're still early enough to fix it. The Real Goal Isn't Scale. It's Control Brian's story isn't about hustle or heroics. It's about building an agency that: Pays you well Respects your health Doesn't collapse without you Still excites you creatively That's the real win. And if you're tired of being the bottleneck, you're stuck in fulfillment, referrals are your only growth plan, or you're not paying yourself what you should… Then it's time to rebuild. Not bigger, but smarter. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training When Melany Robinson lost 70% of her agency's revenue overnight during COVID, she didn't just "cut costs." She rebuilt her team around trust, ownership, and shared sacrifice and learned why keeping C players is one of the most expensive mistakes agency owners make. This episode is a masterclass in leadership, culture, and making hard decisions without losing your soul. Guest Overview Melany Robinson is the founder of SproutHouse, a 30-person integrated communications agency serving hospitality, real estate, and lifestyle brands. She's led her agency through rebrands, crises, and COVID, emerging stronger, leaner, and clearer on what real team culture actually means. What You'll Learn Why COVID exposed the hidden cracks in most agency team structures The real cost of keeping "C players" during uncertain times How to handle massive revenue loss without destroying trust The mindset shift from "managing people" to leading a team Why retreats, alignment, and shared experiences matter more than perks Key Takeaways You can't afford C players, especially during down cycles Shared sacrifice builds loyalty; secrecy destroys it Letting clients out of contracts can be a long-term growth play Culture isn't words on a wall. It's how people show up under pressure Great leaders give clarity, not control The best teams row in sync or the boat doesn't move Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. What Losing 70% of Revenue Taught One Agency Owner About Leadership Most agency owners agree that culture matters. But culture doesn't show up when revenue is up and clients are easy. It shows up when 70% of your revenue disappears overnight. That's exactly what happened to Melany Robinson, founder of Sprout House, when COVID hit. Hospitality clients vanished. Contracts evaporated. The "we'll figure it out" optimism most agency owners run on suddenly wasn't enough. And here's the part most people won't admit: This is where weak leadership gets exposed. The Myth: "If I Work Hard and Treat Clients Well, Growth Is Guaranteed" Before COVID, Melany believed what a lot of agency owners believe: Do great work. Act with integrity. Revenue will take care of itself. COVID blew that illusion up. Revenue is never guaranteed. Clients don't owe you loyalty. And culture doesn't magically hold when fear enters the room. So instead of hiding behind executive decisions, Melany did something most agency owners are terrified to do: She brought the team into the truth. Radical Transparency Beats Quiet Panic Sprout House told clients they could exit contracts. No penalties. Then Melany sat down with her team and laid out the reality: Revenue was down 70%. Something had to change. The choice wasn't who gets cut. It was how do we survive this together? The team chose shared compensation reductions over layoffs. Some people left. Others stayed. And that's when the real lesson emerged. The Hidden Cost of C Players C players aren't bad people. They just show up for themselves first. In good times, they're invisible and in hard times, they drain energy, margin, and morale. Melany realized something every scaling agency owner eventually learns the hard way: You can't afford C players during down cycles or up cycles. They don't row in sync. They protect their seat instead of the boat. On the contrary, A-players lean in. They sacrifice. They care about the whole. And those people are worth everything. Leadership Isn't Managing. It's Creating Clarity Melany doesn't pretend to be a great "manager." Great agency founders don't micromanage. They cast vision, set expectations, and get out of the way. Clarity isn't being bossy. It's saying: "This is what needs to be done. By this date. I trust you to figure out how." That's how you get leaders, not task-doers. Why Culture Is Built Outside the Office Sprout House invests heavily in retreats and real connection. They take the team horseback riding, snowmobiling, swimming in cenotes, and playing games by the pool. Not strategy decks. Not whiteboards. Why? Because trust isn't built in Zoom meetings. It's built when people see each other as humans instead of roles. And when things get hard, that trust is the difference between fragmentation and resilience. The Agency Owner Reality Check If you're honest, you've probably felt some version of this: You're stuck in fulfillment You're carrying people who aren't carrying their weight Revenue feels fragile You're not paying yourself what you should You know something has to change, but you're avoiding the decision This episode isn't about COVID. It's about leadership. And the uncomfortable truth that scaling requires subtraction before multiplication. The Question Is Simple Who's really in your boat? Because hope isn't a strategy. And C players are more expensive than you think. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agency owners talk about selling someday, but very few actually build with that outcome in mind. They stay deeply embedded in delivery, sales, and decision-making, hoping an exit will magically appear later. In this episode, that myth gets dismantled. Today's featured guest, former owner of Dot & Company, shares how she intentionally designed a productized agency that could run without her long before an acquisition was even on the table. After successfully selling Dot & Co to E2M, she reflects on building with exit thinking from day one, how she connected with the right buyers, how she knew it was the right deal, and what genuinely surprised her about the process. Taylor McMaster is the former owner of Dot & Company. She built and sold a productized agency specializing in fractional account management for agencies and successfully exited to E2M after designing the business to operate without her long before the deal was on the table. If you've ever wondered what it actually takes to build an agency you can step away from, and one someone would want to buy, this conversation sets the stage. In this episode, we'll discuss: Making the decision to build a sellable business early on The role that uncloked scale The sales trap Why her exit felt easy Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. How to Build an Agency You Can Sell Many agency owners say they want to sell one day, but are building a business that tells a very different story. They're still on every client call. Still approving every deliverable. Still the only one who can close deals. Still the glue holding everything together. That's not an agency. That's a very stressful job. For her part, Taylor decided early on that she didn't wait until she was exhausted to think about an exit. She designed the business for it. Exit Thinking Changes Everything About a year into building Dot & Co, Taylor made a quiet but powerful decision: "If I want an exit someday, I can't build this like a lifestyle business." That one thought changed how she hired, delegated, and structured the company. Instead of asking, "How do I do this better?" She asked, "How do I make myself unnecessary?" That meant systematically removing herself from every critical lane: Fulfillment People management Operations Admin Finance Not overnight. Not perfectly. But intentionally. The First Hire That Most Agency Owners Avoid Most agency owners start by hiring delivery help. However, there are multiple ways to go about this, especially if you understand where your expertise lies and where someone else could be doing a better job. Taylor hired a people manager early because she knew managing humans was her weakest skill and her biggest future bottleneck. That one hire unlocked scale. Why? Because resource-heavy agencies don't break because of strategy. They break because of people chaos. The Agency Sales Trap and Lesson Learned Like most founders, Taylor stayed in sales for a while. Eventually, she tried to step out and hit friction. Sales slowed. Messaging got inconsistent. Results dipped. For her, the lesson was that founder-led sales works because you know the stories, the nuance, the pain. Her hindsight advice is gold for any agency owner: Get really good at sales first, then teach it or bring in a true closer once the system exists. Too many owners abdicate sales before they've productized it. That's how pipelines dry up and panic hiring begins. Creating an Easy Exit… Because the Work Was Done Early By the time E2M acquired Dot & Co, Taylor had already: taken a 6-month maternity leave, removed herself from day-to-day operations and watched the business continue to grow without her So when the deal closed, there was no scramble. No identity meltdown. No team revolt. Her team was excited. Clients were curious but optimistic. And Taylor was ready. Finding Identity Without Being Trapped By Your Agency Taylor realized something most agency owners avoid: You can love your business without owning it. When your identity isn't trapped inside your agency, you make better decisions. You stop hoarding control. You stop being the bottleneck. You build something that actually has value with or without you. If you're stuck in fulfillment… If your team can't move without you… If you're scared to step back because everything might break… That's not a failure. It's just a sign you've built around you instead of systems. And that's fixable. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Natalie Henley, CEO of Volume Nine, is here to unpack how she bought out her agency's founder. Not through PE, not through M&A, but as a trusted insider who built her path from employee to owner. Natalie shares the behind-the-scenes story of how she structured the deal without needing an SBA loan, the mindset shifts she had to make, and how the agency survived both Google's algorithm changes and COVID-19 cratering their top clients. In this episode, we'll discuss: Grooming your #2 to become your successor, or become the one buying. Avoiding mistakes that slow down or kill an internal exit. Using creative financing (HELOCs, owner carry notes, balloon payments) to structure the deal. Knowing when an employee has what it takes to run the agency. Preserving trust and team stability during a leadership transition. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Links: Natalie's free AI and SEO grader tool: geo.v9digital.com Want to know what your agency is worth? Check out the Agency Valuation Calculator   The overlooked exit strategy: selling your agency to a team member… Natalie started as an employee in a boutique digital firm. When it got acquired by Volume Nine, she climbed the ranks the old-school way: by taking on every problem no one else would. Over time, she ran the company. Then COVID hit. The agency's revenue cratered. Clients disappeared. The founder wanted out. But instead of flipping to a stranger, he turned to Natalie. The "Oh Shit" Moment and the Deal That Followed When the founder came to Natalie with the offer to buy, he already had the groundwork laid. He'd called the bank, scoped out an SBA loan, and gave her a number. Natalie didn't have a pile of cash sitting around, but she did have grit, resourcefulness, and inside knowledge of the business. She didn't take the SBA route. Instead, she pieced together a creative financing stack: A HELOC for the down payment An owner-carry note A balloon payment at the end The company is paying for itself over time. No brokers. No middlemen. Just a fair, fast, founder-to-founder deal. Why This Worked (And Why Most Don't) Natalie had already been: Running the company Exposed to the numbers Made a co-owner years earlier This wasn't a random promotion. It was a trust-built, stress-tested evolution. And it mattered. Because when the deal closed, the culture didn't collapse. The clients stayed. The team believed. What if the best buyer for your agency is already on your team? If you're feeling done, but still care about your agency, selling to a team member might be the cleanest win. Here's how to set it up: Start grooming your #2 now. VP → President → Co-owner → Buyer. Expose them to EBITDA, profitability, client churn…. everything. Stress-test them: give scary responsibilities and see how they show up. Be fair. Don't squeeze every dime. The goal is continuity and peace of mind. Don't wait until you're burned out. Move before it's a fire drill. Agency ownership is a wild ride. If you're looking for a graceful exit that doesn't torch your legacy, this might be it. And if you're the #2? Start acting like the owner today. You never know when the keys will be offered. As Natalie said, "If you care about your team and the agency's legacy, you owe it to yourself to consider your employees as potential buyers. Even if they say no, at least you gave them a shot." Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Do you feel underpaid, misunderstood, or stuck explaining why your work costs what it costs? Most agency owners don't wake up one day and decide, "You know what sounds fun? Running an agency." They stumble into it, usually because the job market fails them. That's exactly how today's featured guest got her start. In this episode, she'll unpack how slowly building her confidence as she gained more experienced changed her perspective on pricing and why most "thought leadership" content does more harm than good. Alicia Disantis is the owner and creative director of 38th & Kip Studio, a dual branding and design studio celebrating 15 years in business. She founded the agency during the 2008 recession, which is about as pressure-filled a launchpad as you can imagine. Before building a sustainable agency, Alicia wore a lot of creative hats: video game character artist for early mobile games, comic book artist for an urban vampire/werewolf series, and unpaid intern at a graphic design. These experiences heavily shaped how she thinks about value, pricing, and positioning today. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why agency pricing should feel scary. Educating clients who think your work is "easy." An approach to thought leadership that actually creates value. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Creating a Unique Path that Lead to Agency Ownership Like many agency owners, Alicia didn't start with a master plan. She started with a student loan bill that arrived a month before graduation and over a hundred job applications that led nowhere. When the traditional path failed, she did what resourceful creatives do: she pieced together work wherever she could find it. Freelance gigs turned into repeat work. Repeat work turned into confidence. And eventually, confidence turned into a business. She went from being an unpaid intern, to game designer, to a comic book designer, and forged a unique path, going from charging just $200 for her first freelance job to earning the confidence she needed to believe she could build her own business. Most agencies are born from survival more than a carefully thought business plan. The danger is that when you start that way, you often carry survival pricing and survival thinking far longer than you should. That early context matters, because it explains why so many agency owners struggle to raise prices later. From $200 Clients to Pricing That Feels Scary (In a Good Way) Alicia's first client paid her $200. She also did a lot of free work, because at the time, that felt like the only way in. What changed over the years wasn't some magic pricing formula. It was confidence. Marketing and creative work is deeply undervalued, especially compared to STEM or "expert" services. People don't argue over a $250 legal consult but they will argue endlessly over a logo. As Alicia grew, she learned three critical skills: Educating clients on the real cost of doing work right Having the confidence to say no Quoting prices that made her a little uncomfortable It wasn't easy, but mostly it just took time. How to Educate Clients Who Think a Logo Is "Easy" Alicia managed to reframe the value of branding for skeptical clients not by arguing but by analogizing. Instead of defending design directly, she compares it to plumbing, legal work, or real estate. You wouldn't hire a $5 freelancer to represent you in civil court, so why would you do that for the thing that represents your entire business? This framing does two things: It removes emotion from the conversation It positions branding as expert work, not artistic preference Clients should also understand the hidden cost of "cheap" solutions, especially with websites. Hiring a friend or a bargain provider usually leads to cut corners, broken functionality, and stalled growth when the person inevitably disappears. The goal isn't to lead with fear. It's to calmly explain consequences and let the client decide if cheap is really cheaper. Thought Leadership That Builds Trust (Not Clickbait) Thought leadership is an area where Alicia found significant success creating valuable educational content. In her view, it's also something most agencies get wrong. The problem isn't content volume. It's content relevance. In her experience, the key to producing this content is leading with research on what people want to hear about. She's also encountered many white papers that don't even offer any takeaways or new perspectives, which ends up diluting the trust on your brand. Alicia insists that everything she produces or is a part of must have key takeaways that her audience can translate into a real technical plan. She shared a four-part framework she uses before creating educational content: Motivation – Why does the audience care right now? Pain points – What problem are they actually trying to solve? Literacy level – How well do they understand the subject? Communication style – How do they prefer to consume information? The literacy piece is where most agencies mess up. If you speak marketing jargon to an audience that doesn't have that literacy, you don't sound smart. You sound patronizing. And nobody buys when they feel dumb. Alicia is intentional about making sure everything she puts out includes tangible takeaways—things people can write down and act on. Without that, it's just noise. Playing the Long Game with Content and Personal Brand This podcast started over a decade ago not as a growth hack, but out of curiosity. The goal was to let listeners be a fly on the wall. The payoff took years, but now it's a massive moat. People join our community and say they've been listening for years before ever raising their hand. That kind of trust doesn't come from ads with rented Lambos. But it also takes time and determination. Less than 7% of podcasts make it past episode three, and only about 1% make it beyond episode 23. From Alicia's perspective, finding your unique personality and value proposition is the hardest part of business. People are afraid to be different, but different is the whole point. Discovering your own value proposition on your own is like trying to tickle yourself. You need outside perspective to see what's actually special. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Do you feel you're giving everything to your agency and only getting exhaustion as a result? Agencies grow best when they're built around clarity, empathy, and self-awareness. Whether it's pricing, boundaries, team management, or AI, the common thread is intention. Today's featured guest understands that you don't need to hustle harder. You need to design smarter, around who you are, how you work best, and what kind of business you actually want to run. She'll share her perspective on agency growth, self-awareness, leadership, and how AI should actually be used inside a modern agency and provide a real look at what it takes to build an agency that's profitable, human, and sustainable without losing yourself in the process. Ingrid Schneider is the CEO and founder of Stay in Your Lane, a fractional CMO and franchise development agency, and Train in Your Lane, an AI education company helping teams build real AI intuition. What started as fractional work after being laid off during the pandemic has grown into a 16-person team running full marketing departments, launching brands, building LMS platforms, and training companies like Ben & Jerry's and Ace Hardware on how to actually use AI to solve problems. In this episode, we'll discuss: Going from survival mode to self-worth: pricing and confidence. How to set boundaries and protect your brain. Design an agency that energizes you, not drains you. Managing people, not just performance with a human-first approach. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Building an Agency on Trust and Integrity Ingrid doesn't come from a tidy, linear career path. After being laid off as a CMO during the pandemic, she made the decision to not work for anyone else again. She started doing fractional CMO work to replace her salary, focusing on trust, authenticity, and doing the work well. What began as a solo operation three and a half years ago is now a full team serving a wide range of clients. Some rely on Ingrid's team to run their entire marketing department. Others bring them in for focused, fractional engagements. The growth didn't come from aggressive sales tactics—it came from being reliable, human, and honest about what they were good at. Learning Your Worth and Unlearning Survival Mode When Ingrid landed her first client, she charged $3,000 a month for two brands. And that client still complained about pricing. Like many agency owners, she was focused on replacing her salary, not building a business. Survival mode has a way of shrinking your sense of value. Learning her worth didn't come from a pricing spreadsheet. It came from personal work deconstructing old beliefs, recognizing her own capabilities, and understanding the impact she could have on others. Ingrid talks openly about how her upbringing and past experiences shaped her tendency to underprice herself and overextend. As her confidence grew, so did her standards. She began collecting people with grit, sometimes hiring for attitude over experience, and building a team she trusted deeply. The biggest lesson for her was: if you don't believe in your value, your pricing, and your agency, will reflect that. Preventing Agency Burnout: How to Set Boundaries Running a business can be incredibly stressful, which is why many owners can relate to being in fight or fly mode all the time. However, this is the worst thing for both your health and your business because chronic stress will affect your brain and get you to a point known as "flipping your lid." According to Ingrid, this term, which she learned from Dr. Daniel Siegel, describes what happens when stress pushes you into fight, flight, or freeze. Logic goes offline. Creativity disappears and everything feels harder. For agency owners, this shows up as exhaustion, impatience, and bad decisions, and healing will mean confronting the reality that you can't run a business well if your body and brain are in survival mode. In her case, Ingrid found healing by emphasizing boundaries as a leadership responsibility. Knowing where your value is best served, trusting your team, and recognizing when their lids are flipped allows you to lead with empathy instead of pressure. The agency doesn't need a burned-out hero. It needs a regulated, self-aware leader. Designing an Agency That Energizes You, Not Drains You This is a lesson that agency owners that currently feel miserable with their business and wanting to give up should learn. Drawing your boundaries will look different to everyone, but you can start by asking yourself what you want to do every day and what you never want to do again. Just draw a circle on a piece of paper and start writing. Inside: the work that gives you energy. Outside: everything that drains you. You'll see that most likely what you need is to redesign your agency around this. You can't be all things to all people. Agency that try usually end up miserable and unprofitable. Wins and losses both matter, but only if you're paying attention to what they're teaching you. Topline revenue means nothing if you hate how you're earning it. Sustainable growth comes from aligning what's good for the business with what actually fills your cup. That alignment is what keeps agencies alive long-term. Managing People, Not Just Performance with a Human-First Approach As an empath, Ingrid leads with a people-first approach rooted in Trust-Based Relational Intervention (TBRI). When something goes wrong, she looks at three things in order: herself, the system, and then the person. Are expectations clear? Do they have the resources they need? Is she showing up with patience? Perfectionism isn't the goal in her agency because perfection is stressful, unrealistic, and unnecessary. Instead, the focus is on doing really good work while protecting the team's mental energy. This is where AI comes in, not as a shortcut for thinking, but as a way to remove the minutia that burns people out. This has been the case for Ingrid, who enjoys managing people. If this is not your case, then focus on hiring people who can manage themselves. But remember you have to learn to let go if you want a self-managing team. There are countless ways to reach the same outcome and speed isn't always the metric that matters most. Sometimes the "slow" work produces the best results. Using AI to Empower Teams, Not Create More Noise Ingrid's approach focuses on education and the fact that everyone should be training their AI intuition to be able to understand how an AI tool works and how it could help them. She trained her own intuition by changing her social media algorithms to feed her AI micro-learnings. From there, it became about application: looking at every agency task and asking, Can AI help solve this better? Her team runs weekly "show and tell" sessions where they demo how they used AI to solve real problems. There's also an AI policy but it's framed as a permission slip, not a rulebook. Team members can experiment with tools on a company card, and if they prove value, the agency commits. The bigger point is this: if you're not empowering your team to use AI thoughtfully, you're holding them back. This isn't about pumping out more content—it's about freeing up human brains to do the work that actually matters. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you feeding your data into AI and assuming the insights it gives you are accurate? What if those confident-sounding answers are quietly steering you in the wrong direction? More agency owners are turning to AI to analyze and interpret performance data, and for good reason. Used correctly, it can save massive amounts of time and move teams beyond using AI to crank out blog posts, ads, or emails faster. But when it comes to attribution, performance analysis, and real decision-making, AI has a dangerous flaw: it's often wrong with absolute confidence. Today's featured guest understands where most agencies go wrong with AI-driven data analysis. He'll break down why large language models frequently misinterpret marketing data, how flawed inputs and assumptions lead to misleading insights, and what it actually takes to get reliable answers from AI without burning budget or making bad strategic calls. Scott Desgrosseilliers is the founder and CEO of Wicked Reports, a marketing attribution platform built specifically for e-commerce brands doing between $5M and $50M in annual revenue. Scott has spent years deep in attribution, analytics, and now AI, figuring out how to separate real signal from noise in an ecosystem where every platform claims the win. He'll talk about how most platforms may be misleading you and the framework he uses to bring sanity back to attribution for serious e-commerce brands. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why AI is sounds smart but gets marketing attribution wrong. Injecting intention into AI. The Five Forces framework to improve your AI data. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Why AI Sounds Smart But Gets Marketing Attribution Wrong One of the biggest myths around AI is that it's inherently "smart." Scott shared that it took eight months for Wicked Reports to release their AI analyst, not because the tech wasn't powerful, but because it was too confident while being wrong. AI models are designed to sound affirmative. Ask them a bad question, and they'll still give you a polished answer. If you ask ChatGPT if you should jump off a bridge, it'll say, "Yes, that's a great idea," unless you explicitly train it to be critical. That's a massive problem when you're dealing with revenue attribution and ad spend decisions. Another major issue is that AI lacks native understanding of time, which is foundational to attribution. Clicks, impressions, tags, and conversions happen in sequence over days or weeks. Without heavy rules, coaching, and sanity checks layered in, AI can't naturally interpret cause and effect. Left alone, it simply fills in gaps, and those hallucinations can cost you real money. Why Intention and Metrics Matter More Than the AI Tool The first thing Scott's team had to "inject" into the AI was intention. Not all campaigns exist to do the same job. Prospecting, retargeting, direct response, and existing customer campaigns each have different goals and therefore require different scoreboards. If you don't tell the AI what the intention is for each row of data, it will make assumptions. And those assumptions are usually wrong. The "North Star" metrics and leading indicators change depending on what you're trying to accomplish. A prospecting campaign shouldn't be judged the same way as an abandoned cart flow. The second big issue is AI's obsession with ROAS. ROAS is easy to latch onto because it gets rewarded with "thumbs up" feedback, but it's often misleading. If two-thirds of your reported revenue comes from repeat customers via email or SMS, AI might tell you your ads are crushing it when they're not. Simply separating new customers from repeat customers already puts you ahead of 95% of advertisers. The Five Forces Framework for Making Better Attribution Decisions To solve these problems, Scott introduced his Five Forces Framework, (intention, expectation, action, outcome, and optimization) a methodology most agencies simply aren't using. The first force is Intention, which defines both the scoreboard and the timeframe. New customer acquisition might need a 30–90 day window to show results, while an abandoned cart campaign can be evaluated in seven days. Without this context, teams panic too early and kill campaigns that haven't had time to work. The second force is Expectation, which is all about alignment. Brand owners often look at Shopify, GA4, Meta, Google, Klaviyo, and SMS dashboards—all showing different numbers. Without agreeing on a single version of truth, clients freak out and shut down top-of-funnel campaigns after five days because the data "doesn't look good yet." Setting expectations isn't a one-time conversation; it has to be reinforced constantly. Reducing Drama: Use "Scale, Chill, and Kill" to Guide Ad Spend The third force is Action, which includes launching the campaign but only after defining clear boundaries. Scott recommends setting "Scale, Chill, and Kill" zones before you spend a dollar. For example, if your acceptable new customer acquisition cost is $50–$70, that's your Chill zone. Below $50? Scale it. Above $70? Kill it. These predefined rules remove emotion, reduce second-guessing, and dramatically lower what Scott calls "psychic stress" inside agencies and brands. Once campaigns run, the fourth force—Outcome—is simply measuring performance against those zones. Did it scale, chill, or die? Optimization Is More Than Creative Tweaks Most agencies obsess over creative, constantly swapping headlines, images, and copy. For Scott, optimization should be more structured. At his agency, they use a decision log to rank potential actions by impact, focusing on whether the problem is the offer, the creative, the traffic, or the budget. But Scott added a fourth optimization factor most teams miss: signaling. If you don't send the right signals back to ad platforms, your optimization efforts don't matter. Meta, in particular, is very good at claiming credit for conversions it didn't truly drive and if it sees quick conversions, it will chase more of those, even if they're just repeat customers. Training Ad Platforms to Optimize for What Actually Matters To fix this, Scott recommends creating separate events in Meta's Events Manager for new customer purchases versus repeat purchases. That way, ad sets can optimize specifically for the outcome you want. If you're closing existing customers through email or SMS, you don't want Meta learning from those conversions. But when a new customer buys, Meta gets a clean signal and starts finding more people like them. Scott noted that when creative and offer are solid, sharpening signals alone can dramatically reduce acquisition costs within a month. You can even go deeper by signaling based on SKU types, allowing platforms to optimize toward higher-quality or more strategic purchases—not just any conversion they can grab credit for. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agencies don't have a marketing problem. They have a sameness problem. Their websites, their services, their "award-winning team" language. It's all the same. They even have the same promises that sound impressive but mean absolutely nothing to a prospect who's heard it 50 times this week. Today's featured guest has a pretty good idea of why agencies are blending into the background and how the ones that win are doing the opposite. He'll get into differentiation, AI, pricing confidence, RFPs, and why playing it safe is the fastest way to disappear. David Brier is the the branding expert CEOs call when their marketing hits a wall. He calls himself "rehab for brands" to help get them profitable. He is the author of Brand Intervention and Rich Brand, Poor Brand, and he's built a career around one core idea most agencies completely miss: branding isn't about looking better but about being different. After realizing there were more than 25,000 branding books and no agreed-upon definition, David distilled branding down to four words: the art of differentiation. That idea alone reframes how agencies should think about positioning, pricing, and growth, especially right now. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why Differentiation Isn't Optional in the Age of Lazy Thinking. Get Rid of the Agency Speak Saying 'No' as a Strategic Advantage Different is Better Than Better Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Why Branding and Differentiation Are No Longer Optional for Agencies David's definition of branding cuts through the noise because it mirrors how humans actually behave. We notice what's different. We ignore what feels familiar. If your agency sounds like a remix of every other agency, your prospects' brains will quietly check out. That's why brands like Apple feel predictable in a good way. As Seth Godin once said, you know what an Apple sneaker would be like. You don't know what a Marriott sneaker would be like—and that's the problem. One owns a point of view. The other plays it safe. For agencies, differentiation means making a choice and being willing to lose people who aren't a fit. That's uncomfortable, especially if you're used to trying to appeal to everyone. But the agencies that scale aren't trying to be a choice. They're working to become the choice for the right clients. How "Agency Speak" Is Killing Your Sales Ask most agency owners what makes them different and you'll hear the same three things: our people, our process, our portfolio. That language doesn't differentiate you, it only anesthetizes the conversation. You wouldn't advise your clients to use the language of the competition, so why would you? Additionally, David also believes that brands that take a stand and aren't afraid to be bold will automatically stand out from the many many agencies that are too timid and too afraid to offend. This doesn't mean you have to be divisive. You can be bold in a way that actually brings people together. This fear of being truly different comes from the way we're all wired to believe that an amazing portfolio will be enough to draw people in. But the portfolio isn't the most important thing in the room, is the person sitting across from you. Stop leading with your work and start leading with questions. When you ask better questions and actually listen, prospects feel seen. By the time you show your portfolio, if you even need to, they've already decided whether they trust you. That kind of confidence signals maturity—and it instantly separates you from the agencies still performing their pitch deck like a talent show. Why AI Is Fueling a Sea of Sameness in Agency Marketing AI isn't the enemy… but lazy thinking is. David sees it as everyone is now outsourcing their ingenuity to the same tools, using the same prompts, producing the same safe output. The result is, of course, a sea of indistinguishable brands with no soul and no pulse. What he calls "The Great Wall of Beige." The mistake agencies make is thinking AI replaces brilliance. It doesn't. It amplifies whatever you bring to it. If you don't have a point of view, AI will happily help you sound like everyone else faster. The agencies that win in this era will use AI as a tool, not a crutch. They'll still ask, "Why the hell not?" They'll still challenge assumptions. And they'll still bring conviction, creativity, and human judgment to the table, because that's the part clients can't automate. The Power of Saying No: Reclaiming Pricing and Positioning When a buying process is run by a committee, the goal isn't excellence, it's consensus. And consensus is where great ideas go to die. This is why David stopped participating in RFPs. The most powerful move an agency can make isn't trying harder to win bad deals. It's being willing to walk away. The ability to say no signals strength. It reframes the relationship. When you stop chasing every opportunity and start choosing your clients, pricing objections lose their power. As David put it, when prospects ask why he's so expensive, he flips the script: "Why is everyone else so cheap?" That mindset shift alone changes how clients perceive your value. What's Next for Agencies to Stay Profitable in a Changing Market The landscape is changing even from week to week with new technologies, which makes it harder to predict how the industry will change in years to come. For David, it all boils down to knowing what you're selling. Agencies that sell themselves as commodities will basically go out of business. As he points out, AI is accelerating output but not judgment, taste, or leadership. When everyone has access to the same tools and prompts, the middle ground disappears fast. Agencies that sell "deliverables" instead of thinking will find themselves racing to the bottom on price, competing with software instead of strategy. In a market flooded with instant, AI-generated work, the real differentiator becomes the ability to think on your feet, challenge assumptions, and connect dots in real time. The greatest athletes, actors, comedians, and entrepreneurs in the world were able to think for themselves and could take something unexpected and work with it and improvise. Can you give people something unexpected? That's something no tool can replicate, and it's why experience is becoming more valuable, not less. Why Different Beats Better: Escaping the Race to the Bottom David strongly believes that in these times of sameness and an abundance of content that lacks pulse and personality, different is better than better. Agencies that have completely given up trying to create something unique and have instead relegated the thinking to AI will try to stand out by repeatedly stating they're better, faster, or bigger. David, however, prefers to offer something different. This gives him the confidence to face clients that come to a meeting with rehearsed questions they got from other creators to assess him and counter with "actually, you're asking the wrong question. What you should be asking is…" No framework replaces conviction. The best leaders don't answer scripted questions—they redirect them. That's how you elevate the conversation. That's how you escape commodity pricing. And that's how you build a brand people remember. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Have you ever questioned whether you're actually built for the hard seasons of agency life? When things get messy, unpredictable, or overwhelming, do you wonder if you have what it takes to keep going or if everyone else somehow got a playbook you missed? Most agency owners don't wake up one day and decide, "I'm going to build an agency." They trip into it. One project turns into two, side work turns into real revenue, and suddenly you're invoicing clients without knowing what an invoice number is supposed to look like. Today's featured guest unpacks what it really looks like to build an agency without a roadmap. Through failed partnerships, stalled careers, and moments where quitting felt easier than continuing, he developed the resilience and mindset required to keep moving. Cliff Skelliter is a serial entrepreneur and owner of Launchpad Creative, a design-thinking agency, working across brand identity, video production, and strategy. They blend artistry, functionality, and brand communication to create captivating digital and physical spaces that not only engage and inspire but also reflect the essence and values of the organizations they work with. In this episode, we'll discuss: The Easiest Choice: Leaving his Career and Going All-In on the Agency What He Learned from His Partnership Experiences Self-Belief as the Most Important Lesson for Agency Owners Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. When Going All-In on the Side Hustle is as Easy Yes Cliff didn't grow up in a family of entrepreneurs, and never set out to "start a business." His entry into agency life wasn't strategic, it was reactive. While working an internship at Canadian news station CTV, he saw the ceiling in broadcast media and realized that no matter how talented or ambitious he was, there was a limit to how far that career could go. Meanwhile, he was already getting requests to work on some projects outside of the station. Eventually, the projects kept getting bigger and the people at the station complained Cliff was creating a conflict of interests with his side hustle, as clients chose him, instead of the station, to produce their commercials. It was an ultimatum, and the choice was clear. By then, that "side hustle" was more lucrative and offered more creative control. Plus, it was just more fun. What's important here isn't just how Cliff started—it's what he didn't have. No business background. No sales training. No master plan. Like many agency owners, he learned by doing, Googling, guessing, and occasionally getting it wrong, which is mostly the default path. The danger is assuming everyone else has it figured out, while you're making it up as you go. Agency Partnerships: When They Work and When They Break You Cliff's first business partnership was both formative and brutal. His partner helped get the business off the ground but was dishonest, reckless, and ultimately destructive. While Cliff focused on creative work, his partner handled sales and accounts… and quietly created financial chaos. When the partner disappeared, Cliff was left holding the debt and the consequences. Many agency owners bring on partners not because it's strategic, but because it feels safer. Someone else handles sales. Someone else deals with money. Someone else shares the weight. But if values, ethics, and accountability aren't aligned, the cost can be enormous. Thankfully, Cliff was able to recover from the blows to both the agency's finances and its reputation. He also gave partnerships another chance. The second partnership was different and far more successful. Cliff partnered with someone who combined complementary skills to build a business that lasted nine years. It worked because each person did what they were good at and didn't want to do the rest. Even then, the partnership eventually ended, not because of business failure, but personal life complications. Partnerships aren't good or bad by default; they amplify whatever already exists. Clear roles, boundaries, and shared values make them powerful. Avoidance, people-pleasing, and lack of communication make them fragile. Resilience, Self-Belief, and the Placebo Effect of Entrepreneurship Cliff got important lessons from both experiences, mainly that he's much more capable than he thought. He could handle sales, which is something he doubted for years. Like many agency owners, he assumed you had to be a certain "type" of salesperson or personality to run a business. In reality, you just need to ask better questions and not be afraid of uncomfortable conversations. He also learned he's far more resilient than he gave himself credit for. Most agency owners would testify to the fact that the universe constantly gives you outs. Jobs. Acquisitions. Easier paths. And yet, something in your gut says, "I'm not done." That resilience isn't logical. It's identity-level. Entrepreneurship stops being something you do and becomes something you are. He now understands the importance of believing in himself, even when it seems absurd. Your mind alone can trigger real physical outcomes. When doubt creeps in, remind yourself that belief itself is a lever. Not hype and not manifesting nonsense; just the willingness to keep going when the story in your head tells you to quit. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Running an agency today looks nothing like it did even a few years ago. What used to work: SEO-driven inbound leads, tight vertical niches, and predictable platforms, has shifted fast. Today's featured guest has learned to adapt to these changes and went from having a clear and defined niche to letting clients' needs guide the next steps for her business. She'll talk about navigating those changes, evolving your positioning, and deciding whether you're actually willing to do what adaptation requires. Laryssa Wirstiuk is the owner of Joy Joya, a boutique email and SMS marketing agency that serves women-focused, product-based e-commerce brands. With more than 15 years in marketing and over a decade running her own agency, Laryssa has lived through multiple shifts in platforms, buyer behavior, and agency models. Her background as a marketing generalist, working across SEO, social, and email, gave her the flexibility to adapt as the market changed. That adaptability, combined with a strong point of view on branding, inbound marketing, and outbound growth, made her a great guest for agency owners questioning what's next for their own businesses. In this episode, we'll discuss: Starting out with a clear niche and evolving along the way. Adopting a hybrid growth strategy. Personal brand vs. clear offers. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. How to Choose a Niche Without Getting Stuck In It Laryssa didn't stumble into her original niche by accident. After working across industries like tech, education, and healthcare, she realized none of them truly excited her. Jewelry stood out because of its mix of fashion, storytelling, and creativity. Rather than guessing, she intentionally took in-house and freelance roles in the jewelry industry to build credibility before going all in. That vertical focus paid off. By committing to a specific industry, Laryssa was able to build a strong referral network, speak at trade shows, and create highly targeted content that drove inbound leads. But after nine years in the jewelry space, she noticed that the biggest results she delivered for clients consistently came from email marketing. What started as one service among many became the clear driver of ROI. The shift from a vertical niche (jewelry) to a horizontal specialization (email and SMS marketing) wasn't a sudden pivot. It was a response to real performance data. Stronger results, clearer processes, and deeper expertise made the decision feel natural. Your niche should serve your strengths, not trap you in yesterday's model. Why Inbound Alone Is No Longer Enough For most of Joy Joya's history, inbound marketing did the heavy lifting. Content, SEO, YouTube, and a podcast tailored to the jewelry industry created steady deal flow without much outbound effort. That's one of the biggest benefits of vertical focus: you can dominate a small pond with the right content and relationships. But the market shifted. Search behavior changed. Social algorithms changed and AI entered the picture. Laryssa realized that relying solely on inbound was no longer enough. Over the past year or two, she intentionally started building outbound muscles: cold email, cold calling, LinkedIn outreach, and systems that allowed her team to support those efforts. The key insight here isn't that inbound is dead, it's that inbound alone is risky. Agencies that survived and grew were willing to adapt their acquisition mix, even when it meant doing uncomfortable things. The Hard Question Every Agency Owner Faces Adapting isn't just about strategy. You should also ask yourself whether you want to do what's required next. New platforms, new sales motions, and new expectations can trigger an existential crisis for long-time owners. You don't have to love every part of running an agency, but you do need the discipline to face the things you'd rather avoid. The solution isn't grinding forever but rather identifying what you don't enjoy, systemizing it, delegating it, or removing it altogether. Agency owners should get comfortable with change as a necessary part of running an agency. The hard part is that change often targets the things you already tolerate but don't love. That's why many agencies stall. The owners don't hate their situation enough to change it but they don't love it enough to stay fully committed either. When Personal Brand Creates Attention But Not Conversions As AI and recommendation engines influence buying decisions, developing a personal brand becomes vital when it comes to being recommended by these tools. People want to work with leaders whose beliefs, values, and perspectives they understand. That's why podcasts, long-form content, and consistent points of view matter more than ever. In her case, Laryssa shared an unexpected challenge after developing her personal brand. She had built such a strong personal and brand identity that many people understood her perspective but didn't fully understand what her agency actually did. In some cases, prospects were more familiar with the brand name than the services behind it. The lesson for agency owners is balance. Thought leadership without clear offers creates attention without conversion. As platforms evolve, it's not enough to educate—you need to connect that education to the right services, for the right audience, at the right time. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training If AI can now write, design, and build faster than your team, what does a profitable agency actually sell next? Most agency owners have experienced a weird mix of excitement and anxiety about AI. On the surface, it feels like everything is changing overnight, including websites, content, search, development, and even how clients perceive value. Underneath that panic, though, there's a calmer truth: the fundamentals of running a great agency haven't changed at all. The tools have. Today's featured guest talks candidly about where AI actually helps agencies, where it's wildly overhyped, and why agency owners who focus on systems, relationships, and leverage will win while everyone else burns out chasing shiny tools. Eric Weidner is the founder of Workbox, a digital agency specializing in websites and custom applications for pharmaceutical companies and pharma marketing agencies. With a background that stretches back to the early days of the web, Eric has built, rebuilt, and adapted his agency multiple times, and today he's deep in the practical application of AI for real agency work, not just demos and hype. In this episode, we'll discuss: How agencies are positioned to win with AI. Avoid creating client disappointment with incorrect use of AI. The brutal reality for agencies that rely on "set it and forget it" marketing. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. The Road to Becoming a Long-Term Agency Operator Eric fell into web development in the mid-90s while working as a secretary administrator at a law firm in San Francisco. Exposure to early tech including computer networks, WordPerfect, XML, and eventually HTML turned into freelance work. That freelance work led to clients and eventually an agency. His story mirrors how most agencies actually begin, with skill, opportunity, and momentum. The problem is that what gets you started is rarely what helps you scale. Eric's longevity comes from his willingness to evolve without abandoning the fundamentals that keep agencies profitable. And that's the trap many agency owners fall into today: assuming AI is a complete reset instead of a force multiplier for the right business model. Why AI Feels Like a Career Defining Moment for Agencies When ChatGPT first came out, Eric didn't treat it like a novelty. He went all in because, for the first time in years, the intellectual challenge of building and running an agency felt exciting again. For a lot of seasoned agency owners, the business had become… static. Same services. Same delivery challenges. Same team bottlenecks. AI cracked that open. Suddenly, there were new problems to solve, new efficiencies to unlock, and new ways to multiply output without multiplying headcount. Ai introduced a chance to rethink how work gets done, how fast ideas move, and how agencies create leverage, not just more work. Eric has no blind optimism when it comes to AI. It isn't magic, and it's not ready to replace strategic thinking. But it is a force multiplier for agencies that understand systems. That's the opportunity most agencies are missing. Instead of asking, "How do we sell AI to clients?" the smarter question is: "How do we use AI to reduce friction, speed up delivery, and improve results—then package that advantage?" Agencies that do this become faster, leaner, and more profitable. Agencies that don't end up stuck in fulfillment, competing on price, and drowning in tools they don't fully understand. AI Is Powerful But It Still Needs a Human Brain AI tools can feel like a superpower, especially if you've never loved certain parts of your job. Writing, development, ideation, and prototyping are faster than ever. But there's a catch. AI works best at the first pass. Ask it to build a landing page, mock up a system, or outline functionality, and it shines. Ask it to make nuanced, detailed changes across a complex system, and it starts to fall apart. In a  sense, AI is like a drunk intern—brilliant on the first assignment, frustrating when you ask for revisions. For agency owners, this matters because selling AI as a silver bullet is a fast way to create client disappointment. The agencies that win will be the ones who understand where AI increases leverage and where human judgment still matters. Websites, Search, and the Shift Nobody's Talking About One of the most important things to understand if you're building a website nowadays is that we're not building websites just for humans anymore. As AI-driven search becomes more dominant, users don't always need to click through to a site to get answers. That changes how content, SEO, and authority work. Eric points to GEO—Generative Engine Optimization—as the next evolution of SEO, where freshness, clarity, and structured authority matter more than volume. This creates a brutal reality for agencies that rely on "set it and forget it" marketing. To stay visible, brands must publish consistently. Content often needs to be less than 90 days old to stay relevant in AI-driven systems. For agency owners already stuck in fulfillment, this is a warning sign. More services, more content, more tools without better systems just equals faster burnout. Content Alone Isn't Enough. Your Voice Builds Trust With AI flooding the internet with content, differentiation matters more—not less. People don't just consume content, they build relationships with voices they trust. That's why podcasts, communities, and consistent thought leadership outperform random marketing tactics. When people hear you think out loud for years, trust compounds. In an AI-saturated world, that human connection becomes the advantage. Or as Jason puts it: when agency owners say they need more leads, the answer is often boring but effective. Build a platform. Build trust. Stay visible. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training How big do you actually want your agency to become? Does the idea of running a massive team sound exciting or completely exhausting? For many agency owners, scaling feels less like growth and more like trading freedom for complexity. Scaling an agency isn't about hustle. It's about surviving the moments that almost break you, building systems that actually work, and accepting that what got you here won't get you there. Today's featured guest understands that running a big agency is about structure and leadership. He's grown a global agency to 700 people without losing profitability, sanity, or culture and now he'll unpack the hard-earned lessons that most agency owners don't think about until it's too late. Nital Shah is the co-founder of Mavlers, a full-service, lifecycle digital agency headquartered in India, with operations supporting global brands and agencies across multiple geographies. Today, Nital leads a 700-person organization focused on marketing operations, delivery excellence, and scalable systems for agencies around the world. Having experienced both sides of the agency equation, client-side pressure and operational scale, Nital brings a grounded, operator-first perspective to growth, profitability, and leadership. In this episode, we'll discuss: An early principle: Profit should be intentional. Achieving operational excellence at scale. Structuring scale to make it manageable. Why alignment beats micromanagement. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. The Wake-Up Call: COVID, Cash Flow, and Retainers Like many agencies, Nital's biggest inflection point came during COVID. Before the disruption, the agency was focused heavily on top-line revenue rather than predictable recurring income. When 40 percent of revenue disappeared almost overnight, the weakness in that model became painfully obvious. Luckily, the agency's consistent focus on profit from day one helped them overcome this ordeal. However, it changed Nital's perspective on retainers and helped him understand that, without retainers, any similar unexpected bump in the road could destroy the agency. The agency had enough cash flow to survive the shock and rebuild and the lesson was clear: at scale, a large team without consistent recurring revenue is fragile. Retainers aren't just about stability; they are about survival. The other advantage that helped soften the blow was diversification. By spreading clients across industries and geographies, the agency avoided being wiped out by a single market downturn. When one region slowed, others carried the load. That balance didn't eliminate pain, but it reduced risk in a way most agencies underestimate until they feel it firsthand. Profit Is Not an Afterthought One of the most important principles Nital and his co-founder agreed on early was: profit must be intentional. It's not something you hope shows up at the end of the year. It's something you design into the business. That mindset shapes everything from service selection to client qualification. The agency actively avoids hyper-competitive, race-to-the-bottom services and continually evolves its offerings as markets become saturated. When a service becomes unprofitable, they pivot. When a client isn't aligned or drains margin, they say no. Profit isn't just about owner income. It funds experimentation, innovation, and future growth. Without margin, you can't test new services, pivot when the market shifts, or invest in better systems. You just stay busy. And busy is often the enemy of profitable. Operational Excellence at Scale Running a 700-person agency isn't about heroics but about process. Nital is clear that consistent, documented, and enforced workflows are what reduce mistakes, rework, and delivery friction. The agency is structured into service-based business units, each with its own leadership and accountability. On top of that sits a customer success layer that ensures delivery stays aligned with expectations. Everyone is trained on defined protocols, and those protocols exist to protect quality, not bureaucracy. When processes are clear and followed, the probability of hitting client outcomes increases. That reduces rework, lowers internal stress, and improves margins. In a people-driven business, operational discipline is what turns chaos into leverage. Alignment Beats Micromanagement One of the hardest challenges for Nital's agency came after rapid post-COVID growth, when the team doubled in size and remote work became the norm. Processes broke, alignment slipped, and as a result, communication suffered. The turning point came with adopting the Scaling Up framework by Vern Harnish. This framework, aimed at businesses ready to scale in a more structured manner, forced clarity across four areas: people, strategy, execution, and cash. More importantly, it created alignment from leadership all the way down to individual contributors. Every team member understands how their work connects to departmental goals, quarterly priorities, and long-term vision. When people understand the why behind the process, ownership replaces micromanagement. Accountability becomes cultural, not enforced. Leadership, Tough Calls, and A-Players When it comes to mistakes in team alignment, Nital openly acknowledges that the team that gets you to one stage may not be the team that gets you to the next. That realization isn't easy, especially when loyalty and shared history are involved. But over the last two years Nital has embraced the fact that growth demands adaptability. The agency now prioritizes agility, learning speed, and ownership. When someone can't evolve with the business, they are given time, feedback, and support, but the standard doesn't change. You don't win championships by protecting weak links. You win by putting the best players on the field while still treating people with respect and empathy. It's not cold. It's responsible leadership. Structuring Scale So It's Manageable When Nital decided to go back to India and start an agency, his mentor back in Australia offered him the chance to run their offshore center. From there, he started supporting other agencies in several countries and expanded his team to where they are now. Seven hundred people sounds overwhelming until you understand the structure. Instead of one massive organization, the agency operates as multiple business units, each capped around 100 to 150 people and run as its own P&L. This turns an impossible leadership problem into a manageable one. Leaders focus on coaching their direct reports, not managing hundreds of individuals. Each layer carries responsibility downward, creating clarity instead of bottlenecks. As Nital points out, no founder manages 700 people directly. You manage your leadership team. And if that team is strong, aligned, and accountable, scale becomes less scary and far more sustainable. The Future: AI, Change, and Opportunity Despite the uncertainty surrounding AI and marketing technology, Nital is optimistic. The pace of change has leveled the playing field. Years of experience no longer guarantee an advantage. Everyone is adapting at the same time. For smaller agencies, this creates opportunity. They can adopt tools and workflows faster than large organizations. For larger agencies, the challenge is moving faster without breaking structure. Either way, the shift toward complex marketing technology orchestration opens doors for agencies willing to master it. For him, the future belongs to agencies that can adapt, systemize, and evolve without clinging to what used to work. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Do you feel constantly worried about shrinking organic visibility, heavier ad pressure, and constant change? Running an agency has never been a straight line. Platforms change, algorithms shift, and what worked five years ago can quietly stop working overnight. Organic visibility is shrinking, ads are getting more expensive, and uncertainty feels constant. Today's featured guest knows that reality and will share her journey from agency employee to founder of a 43-person local SEO agency, along with her honest perspective on Google, AI, remote teams, and why growing bigger can actually create more freedom and impact when done for the right reasons. Joy Hawkins is the founder and owner of Sterling Sky, a specialized local SEO agency focused on helping businesses rank on Google Maps and local search results. She has been working in the SEO industry since 2006 and is widely known for her deep understanding of how Google's algorithm works, especially in local search. Sterling Sky is a fully remote agency with team members spread across Canada and the United States. What started as a small consulting experiment has grown into a 43-person team over eight years. In this episode, we'll discuss: Google, AI, and the future of local SEO Why SEO agencies must diversify to survive Building a fully remote team. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. From Agency Employee to Founder of a Local SEO Agency After more than a decade inside agencies, Joy realized she was more interested in how systems worked than in selling them. When disagreements about services and sales responsibilities reached a breaking point, she decided to try consulting (fully prepared to dip into savings and return to a job if needed). Clients came faster than expected. Eight years later, that experiment has grown into a 43-person remote agency. Google, AI, and the Future of Local SEO One of the biggest challenges Joy sees in the industry right now is the pace of change inside Google's ecosystem. Features are constantly being swapped out, organic real estate is shrinking, and small businesses are feeling the impact more than ever. While agencies can usually adapt, clients often struggle because Google still represents such a large percentage of their lead flow. A major concern Joy sees is how Google is pushing more ads and limiting organic exposure, especially in local results. On mobile devices, users are now seeing local service ads dominate the top of the screen, followed by AI-driven local results that are shrinking from three listings down to one in some cases. For businesses that used to rely on being second or third in the map pack, this shift can mean a dramatic drop in calls almost overnight. Despite the fear around AI, Joy does not believe Google is going anywhere. As she points out, Google's real advantage is data. Reviews, location history, calls, visits, and behavior all live inside Google Maps. That depth of information is something other platforms struggle to match. Local SEO is still viable, but it is no longer free traffic in the way many business owners became used to. The bigger lesson is not about Google itself, but about dependency. When an agency or a business relies too heavily on one channel, any change can feel catastrophic. The agencies that struggle the most right now tend to be those built around rigid, cookie-cutter systems that cannot flex with the landscape. Why SEO Agencies Must Diversify to Survive Agency owners who want time to adapt should keep in mind it's always better to have an outbound strategy, an inbound strategy, and partnerships that you can rely on. If all your business comes from one channel and that channel changes, you are forced into reaction mode. The opportunity here is for agencies to guide clients toward broader strategies. That might include paid ads, partnerships, or even old school tactics like direct mail and local sponsorships. The exact tactic matters less than the mindset. Businesses need multiple levers to pull so they are not held hostage by one platform's decisions. For instance, right now everyone's scrambling to adopt AI in their processes, services, and more. But you should also try to understand the economics behind AI and advertising. The massive data centers, energy consumption, and infrastructure costs mean that today's low prices will not last forever. Platforms are investing heavily now with the expectation that monetization will follow. For agency owners, this reinforces the importance of pricing correctly, setting expectations with clients, and building offers that account for rising costs and shrinking organic margins. Building a Fully Remote Agency Joy's agency started more as a practical decision than a remote-first experiment. After years of working from home she saw no reason to take on the overhead of an office. The cost savings mattered early on, but the flexibility mattered even more. Without a commute, Joy could better balance work and family life. That same benefit extended to her team. Many of her early hires were former coworkers from an agency that later shut down, people she already trusted and respected. Since they were geographically spread out, an office would have created unnecessary friction. Expanding into the United States was also a strategic move. Joy wanted access to a larger talent pool so she could be extremely selective about who she hired. Being remote made it possible to hire people who were already passionate about local SEO instead of settling for whoever happened to live nearby. Culture, Connection, and Team Building at Scale One of the risks of running a remote agency is losing human connection. Joy is very intentional about avoiding that. While informal meetups happen more often in Canada, the entire team gets together once a year for an in person retreat. The goal of these retreats is mostly relationship building. Joy genuinely likes the people she works with and considers many of them friends. She believes that strong relationships create trust, better communication, and a healthier work environment overall. Joy sees firsthand how flexible work, reasonable boundaries, and a supportive environment can be life changing for employees who came from toxic workplaces. That impact has become a meaningful part of why she continues to grow the agency. Why Scaling the Agency Became a Mission When she first started her agency, Joy wanted a small team. Ten people or fewer. Highly experienced. Minimal management. That vision changed a few years in, and the reason surprised her. Around two years in, her agency began supporting a charity in Uganda, and the more she built that relationship, the more Joy saw how far a single dollar could stretch there compared to North America. Visiting in person made the impact real. She realized that by growing the agency, she could dramatically increase the good they could do through that partnership. The same realization applied to her team. As the agency grew, Joy saw how stable, flexible work improved her employees' lives. That sense of responsibility and opportunity shifted her perspective as she figured out her purpose. Now growth was no longer about ego or scale for its own sake. It became a way to create more impact both inside and outside the business. Leadership, Delegation, and Hiring for Your Weaknesses Agency owners who wish to keep their businesses small are often thinking about the nightmare that running a big agency can be. They imagine that the headaches they deal with at ten employees will just double if the team doubles. However, this was never the case for Joy. When she thinks about overworking she thinks about her time working for others. This is probably because Joy has always been very clear about what she does not enjoy. Accounting, taxes, and people management are high on the list, and instead of forcing herself to become good at everything, she hired people who genuinely enjoy those areas. A strong accountant removed massive mental load early on and hiring leadership team members who thrive on managing people allowed Joy to focus on strategy and innovation. She believes this is one of the biggest unlocks for agency owners who feel trapped. Delegation is not about offloading busywork. It is about trusting capable people to own outcomes. Joy prefers hiring experienced professionals over entry level talent because she does not want to micromanage. Her expectations are high, but so is her respect for her team's autonomy. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Starting with a clearly defined niche can make all the difference when you're landing your first clients and deeply understanding that niche can carry you through the toughest seasons of agency life. Today's featured guest built his agency on exactly that foundation. Before launching his firm, he spent years working as a consultant for governments, UN agencies, and the European Commission. Along the way, he identified a clear gap in the market. That expertise proved invaluable during the pandemic. While uncertainty hit many agencies hard, he trusted his understanding of the space and chose to weather the slow months, confident the work would return. His patience paid off as demand surged later in the year. He'll share the lessons learned from more than 20 years of building and running a thriving niche agency in one of the most political and complex markets in the world—and why focus, patience, and deep domain knowledge remain his greatest competitive advantages. Filip Lugovic is the co-founder and CEO of The Right Street, an EU-focused digital communications agency based in Brussels. For the last 20 years, he's lived in the middle of the "Brussels bubble," where organizations, trade groups, and companies fight for attention from the European Commission, Parliament, and Council. His agency sits at the intersection of public affairs + digital communications, serving organizations trying to influence policies that impact nearly half a billion people across Europe. In this episode, we'll discuss: Identifying and owning a highly specific niche. Building a client list with the power of low-hanging fruit. Getting their best quarter during COVID. Keeping a creative team inspired during slow cycles. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. From Door-to-Door Sales to the EU Policy Bubble Before he ever pitched a digital campaign, Filip was strangers' knocking on doors in Southern California selling heart-shaped pillows and screwdrivers with built-in flashlights. Not exactly glamorous, but it taught him the skill most agency owners run from: sales. When he landed in Brussels in 2005, he fell into a job selling ads for EU Observer, one of the leading political publications at the time. His clients were the same organizations trying to get in front of policymakers. Over the next decade, he built a deep network and a knack for relationship-based selling. Eventually, he left to consult on his own, but by 2017, he hit the same wall most consultants do: "I'm making money… but it all goes to someone else." A lunch with his current business partner (a seasoned communicator who had served as spokesperson for governments, UN agencies, and the European Commission) led to a plan to build something together. Building a Niche Agency: Where Marketing Meets Lobbying Once they figured out their roles and what they brought to the partnership, Filip and his partner started making plans and realized something: Most agencies in Brussels fell into one of two buckets: Lobbying firms who knew politics but didn't understand digital. Marketing agencies who knew digital but didn't understand politics. No one sat in the middle. So they built an agency that merged both worlds, pairing policy context with high-quality digital production. At the time, it was a hypothesis, and a risky one. Only a couple of competitors existed. But they saw the gap and took it. Landing the First Clients by Leveraging Existing Relationships Filip is no stranger to knocking on doors to sell a product, and he would have for his agency. However, this wasn't the right environment for that, so when it came time to start looking for clients, he relied on his network. Filip's approach to sales was never transactional and he very much enjoyed building lasting relationships. This is something many agency owners overcomplicate. Filip's first step wasn't SEO, funnels, or paid ads. It was: "Let me call every single person I already know and ask them to grab a coffee." That alone got him his first tiny clients. It wasn't a big account. Five hundred euros for hours of work, and zero profit. But it built the early case studies they needed. Most agencies try to skip this part. They want the big brand logo first. But every agency you admire started by leveraging relationships and building proof. Pro tip: You should always continue to revisit these relationships. Reach out to that client and buy them a coffee. This is the low-hanging fruit that can get your agency out of a tough spot. If you're not doing this, you're leaving money on the table. How Deep Market Knowledge Helps in Hard Times By January 2020, Filip's agency was growing at a healthy pace, had a new office and a seven-person team. Then we experience COVID shut downs. Their contracts froze, clients stopped paying, and their pipeline evaporated. Meanwhile, the agency had fixed expenses and a growing team relying on them. Most agencies would've cut staff and hoped to survive. Filip didn't. Luckily, he understood his market: EU organizations operate on annual budgets. If they don't spend it, they lose it the following year. So he and his partner made the hard call: No salaries for themselves (they relied on their wives for a while). Keep the team. Use that time to aggressively market. Their bet paid off and by Q4, every organization that couldn't run events was suddenly scrambling for digital support. Their best quarter ever happened during one of the scariest years on record. It was the foundation of everything that came afterwards. Keeping the Team Inspired During Slow Cycles How do you keep a creative team motivated when client work stops? Filip's answer: "Let them create whatever they want." There were no clients nitpicking colors or people demanding designers to make the logo bigger. It was a rare opportunity for pure, unfiltered creative expression. The team remembers that period as one of the most enjoyable times in the agency's history, despite the financial uncertainty. Why Big Name Clients Don't Always Make the Best Case Studies Most agency owners are probably familiar with this scenario: A famous brand comes in with big expectations and a big budget, and you brush off early concerns thinking their reputation would suffice to make the use of their case story all worthwhile. It happened to Filip and, unfortunately, after dismissing those concerns, the client rewrote everything and destroyed the design. Now they couldn't even put it on their website. Filip laughs about this now, because it still happens. Sometimes the smallest project gives you the best case study. Sometimes the biggest one becomes a "please-don't-put-our-name-on-that" situation. Just show the work you're proud of, not just the work you were paid for. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training What a year. I sat down with over 100 incredible agency owners—and the insights were unreal. From million-dollar breakthroughs to hard-earned lessons, these founders brought the real talk. In this special year-end episode, I'm sharing the top 5 interviews that stood out most. To everyone who tuned in, shared an episode, or took action from something they heard—thank you. This show is for you, and because of you. Here's to a smarter, stronger, more scalable 2026. Let's go.   Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.   AI, Efficiency & the Future of Digital Agencies | with Manish Dudharejia (E2M Solutions) If you're running a digital agency and wondering how the hell you're supposed to keep up with AI, automation, and shifting client expectations—this one's for you. Jason sits down with Manish Dudharejia, founder of E2M Solutions, one of the largest white-label partners for agencies, to break down where the real opportunities are—and what's about to get wiped out. Spoiler: Agencies that don't embrace efficiency will get eaten alive. Whether you're stuck in fulfillment hell or just trying to stay 3 steps ahead, this is a must-watch if you want to grow smarter, not grind harder.   From Freelancer to CEO: How Kriston Sellier Built a Scalable, Human-Centered Agency Kriston Sellier, Founder of Id8, shares how she broke free from the freelancer grind, stopped being held hostage by a single client, and transformed into a confident CEO with systems, a team, and a business that no longer revolved around her. We dig into the moment she realized she wasn't really running a business and how hiring a consultant changed everything (and brought in 25 new clients) This isn't fluff. It's the real path from chaos to clarity—one that too many agency owners skip because they're stuck reacting.   From $1M to $40M: How Chris Dreyer Scaled His SEO Agency with One Counterintuitive Strategy If you're an agency owner stuck managing chaos, wondering how the hell to grow without everything breaking—this is your blueprint. I sat down with Chris Dreyer, CEO of Rankings.io, who scaled his agency from barely breaking 7 figures to nearing $40 million in pure service revenue. And no, it wasn't because of some sexy funnel or overnight hack. It was because he doubled down on relationships. Favorite line from Chris: "You mean to tell me it's not worth $500 to go shake hands with a $125K client?" This isn't theory. It's what the top 1% of agencies are actually doing—and it's probably not what you're doing right now.   How to Build an Agency Team That Sticks & Clients Who Actually Respect You | Colin Hetherington I sat down with Colin Hetherington, founder of Dublin's Common Good and co-founder of Zoo Digital (which scaled to $3M+ with less than 5% turnover). Colin's the real deal—he's built agencies people love working at and clients want to stay with. You'll hear how Colin combined strategy, creativity, and technical execution to create an agency that stood out—and why focusing on team trust and clarity made all the difference. Whether you're scaling or starting fresh, there's gold in this conversation on how to lead without burning out.   Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you thinking about expanding your agency through acquisitions? Buying another firm can be one of the fastest ways to scale, but only if you choose the right partners and nail the cultural fit. Otherwise, growth can quickly turn into chaos. Today's featured guest has been through five acquisitions, each one teaching her a different (and sometimes painful) lesson about what truly makes a merger succeed. In this episode, she opens up about her biggest acquisition missteps, the cultural mismatches that nearly derailed integrations, forecasting errors she didn't see coming, and the identity challenges that arise when two teams collide. Kimberly Eberl is the Founder and CEO of The Motion Agency, a full service marketing and communications shop with offices in Chicago, Cincinnati, and Nashville. While the agency offers everything from creative to content, it is unusually strong in public relations with roughly 20 PR pros on staff. Kimberly has completed five acquisitions, navigated the cultural and financial highs and lows of M&A, and grown Motion into one of the most respected independent agencies in the Chicago market. In this episode, we'll discuss: When acquisitions help agencies scale—and when they backfire. Lessons learned from five agency acquisitions. Why agency owners often misjudge valuation and earnouts. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. From Fired Account Director to Agency Founder Kimberly jokes that she is one of those founders who got fired into entrepreneurship. At her previous agency, the account director role was undefined and impossible to succeed in. The revolving door should have been a clue. She lasted a year before being let go and scrambling to figure out her next move. With no grand plan, she fell into freelancing in 2006. The economy was healthy. The demand came fast. And pretty quickly she reached that moment every accidental agency owner hits. Either say no to work or hire help. She chose to hire. That early decision set the tone for the next decade. Instead of trying to do it all herself, she leaned into building a team and letting the business grow past her personal capacity. Outgrowing a Single-Service Model: Moving Beyond One Specialty Kimberly started as a PR pro. That focus worked for a while, but eventually she noticed how much money she was leaving on the table. Clients wanted websites, creative, content, and she was constantly referring the work away. The big shift happened when she decided to expand beyond PR and bring more capabilities in-house. This meant hiring outside her comfort zone and learning how to oversee work she could not personally do. That decision opened the door to real growth. Many agency owners get stuck right there. They stay in their one specialty because it is safe. Kimberly pushed through that discomfort and built a service mix clients actually wanted. The Reality of Acquiring Another Agency: Lessons from 5 Acquisitions Kimberly opted to add these new services through acquisitions. So far, she has completed five and every one had a different lesson. Her first major acquisition was bold. She bought an agency twice the size of her own. Financially and emotionally, it was a lot. Looking back, she admits she may not do a deal that large again, especially in a specialty she did not personally understand. But she also learned that size does not determine complexity. A one-person agency with contractors had just as many integration headaches as a larger shop. What mattered most was agency culture. Some deals looked perfect on paper but fell apart because the values, expectations, and behaviors did not align. One deal in particular was financially great and culturally awful. She kept one client from that acquisition. Another deal was financially terrible but culturally perfect. Years later, most of those staff members are still with her. Her biggest warning: never ignore cultural red flags during the courting phase. Take time to hang out with the sellers, how they operate, and experience their company's culture. Go to dinner, Travel together. You'll notice small behaviors (snapping over minor problems, chronic lateness, lack of transparency) that won't disappear after the contract is signed. Valuation Mistakes That Kill Good Deals Kimberly also dove into how she approaches valuations and why so many sellers get this part wrong. She focuses on future performance, realistic forecasts, and removing costs that will not continue after the sale. She also pushes back on inflated projections. If an owner claims revenue will double, the earnout should reflect that. Big promises are fine, but they should come with big accountability. One agency she walked away from wanted a valuation equal to twice their gross revenue. They were using cash-based accounting and ignoring profitability. It was an immediate red flag. Kimberly's advice to owners is simple. Build a business that is sellable even if you never plan to sell. Get your financials clean. Use accrual accounting. And be realistic about your numbers. Leadership, Loyalty, and the Hardest Skill — Letting Go As the agency scaled, leadership challenges became just as complex as financial ones. Kimberly admits she is confused about why she is the largest woman-owned agency in Chicago at only seventy people. She is proud of the title, but she wonders why more women are not reaching similar scale. There are no differences in capability, but many female founders still hit a ceiling often tied to loyalty, delegation, or difficulty letting people go. Some owners, especially women, treat their team like family and struggle to make hard decisions around performance. She admitted she has been loyal to a fault at times and is working on finding a healthy balance. Agencies function more like all star sports teams. The roster changes every year. People get promoted, moved, or sometimes released. That does not mean you failed. It means you are adapting so the team as a whole can win. Kimberly is even working on building hobbies outside her agency because she noticed how much of her identity was tied to work. It is a relatable struggle for founders who have poured years into their companies. AI Changes the Work, Not the Need for Agencies Let's be clear, agencies are not going away because of AI. Kimberly certainly doesn't believe that. She treats AI like an intern. Helpful. Fast. But still needing quality control, creativity, and leadership. Clients still want real relationships. They want someone who understands context and nuance. Agencies serving tech-savvy individuals will feel churn from AI, but agencies serving plumbers, service-based businesses, and non marketers will be fine. These clients want to stay in their lane and hire experts for everything else. Marketing evolves, but agencies survive because the business model adapts. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training What do you do when a business partnership fails? Do you try to engineer the perfect agreement so the exit is clean, or focus on alignment long before anyone signs anything? The truth is, most agency partnerships fail because owners rush into them without slowing down to see the cracks. Preparing for the worst is not pessimistic. It is how you protect the business you are trying to build. Today's featured guest has gone through failed starts, broken agency partnerships, and overcommitting his time as the owner for fear of losing opportunities. He'll unpack 25 years of wins, mistakes, and hard earned clarity, from building his agency and how the biggest breakthroughs came from leadership shifts rather than marketing tactics. Andy Crestodina is the co founder of Orbit Media, a Chicago based web development and optimization agency approaching its 25th year in business. Orbit has grown to a team of fifty five and more than eight million in annual revenue. Andy is also one of the most respected voices in content marketing, with millions of readers, hundreds of speaking engagements each year, and a reputation for teaching real strategy instead of recycled tactics. In this episode, we'll discuss: Slow, organic for consistent agency growth. What a failed agency partnership can cost you. The hire that gives an agency founder their time back. Learning when "yes" becomes the problem. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. How Slow, Organic Growth Built a 25-Year Agency Andy was working as an IT recruiter in the nineties and found himself bored at his day job. He didn't get to build anything in that position and he had a lot of ideation urging him to do something else. Luckily, the internet offered him that chance. He could build a website and channel his creative energy through that side project. But could he do it full time? He had no resume and no portfolio to present to a potential employer. He realized it was easier to get a client to take a chance on him than it was to convince an employer to hire him. So he and a high school friend started building sites. The first partnership failed fast and then the second attempt grew slowly, quietly, and steadily for 25 years. The secret was not paid ads or cold outreach. It was content. Consistent publishing, useful insights, and a commitment to organic channels long before that became mainstream advice. When Agency Partnerships Go Wrong and What It Really Costs There are many stories of successful partnerships in the agency world, but overall the disaster stories are much more common. As Jason says, you either know the bad partner or you are the bad partner. Andy lived through one of the toughest versions of that story. He had three partners for a while. One of them ran an unprofitable department. Responsibilities were unclear. Values were not aligned. And when it came time to clean up the mess, a poorly written shareholder agreement became a bigger problem than the partner himself. Andy had to mortgage his home and personally lend the company money to buy out the partner. The agreement used the wrong valuation formula. The partner dragged his feet and what should have been a difficult but clean process turned into a long, expensive, emotionally draining separation. Looking back, Andy says something most founders never admit. A handshake would have been better than the shareholder agreement they had. The real mistakes came earlier: saying yes to a partner who did not share the same values, not slowing down long enough to evaluate the deal, and being hungry for growth and ignoring misalignment. The Leadership Hire That Gave the Founder His Time Back Around this time of misalignment between partners was when a long time client turned management consultant stepped in. He saw tension inside the partner group, so he moved to do a 360 review and surfaced the problems that no one wanted to say out loud. Andy was quick to spot that he would be a great addition to the agency, and so eventually, he became the CEO. That single hire changed everything. Andy was doing all the sales and marketing. Meetings all day. Proposals all night. Burning energy on tasks someone else should have owned years earlier. Once his new CEO came on board, he built systems, built a sales process, hired strategists to handle qualification and scoping. Suddenly Andy had 20 hours a week of his life back. He poured that time into content and went right into work. He doubled publishing frequency, launched a conference, wrote a book, held monthly live events, shot videos. The brand exploded. Their reach multiplied. The inbound engine went from effective to unstoppable. This is the founder shift so many agency owners avoid. Letting go. Delegating the work that drains you. Investing your best energy into the work that grows the company, not the work that maintains it. Saying Yes, Saying No, and Protecting Your Energy Andy admits he still overcommits. He still says yes to speaking engagements because he loves the stage and it generates leads, even though the constant travel wears him down. This is something many agency owners have to face. You may want the brand, speaking gigs and reach. But you also want to protect your energy so you do not turn into the hero who disappoints people when they finally meet you. At some point, you have to choose where your yes goes. Andy chose articles, newsletters, LinkedIn, webinars, a conference, and in person events. He let go of podcasting. He narrowed his focus so he could go deeper. That discipline, more than any tactic, is what keeps his inbound engine healthy 25 years later. The Tension Between Culture and Profit How do you balance loyalty to your team with the need for profit and EBITDA? Andy is still trying to figure this out. His team has an average tenure of eight years. Some team members have been there twenty. Andy cares deeply about them and their families. But agencies face moments when bonuses, salaries, utilization, and capacity collide. Where doing right by people and doing right for the business feel like competing priorities. There is no perfect answer. But there is a direction. Take care of your people first. Trust them to help you solve the profit problems. Fix leaks. Raise rates. Tighten scope. Operate like owners. And when the agency wins, let your team win with you. Culture breaks agencies faster than anything else. Profit can be fixed. Culture cannot be patched over. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training What would you do if the merger you believed would change everything suddenly collapsed? Agency owners often dream of the big exit: the acquisition, the payday, the validation. But if you've been in this industry long enough, you know the story rarely goes as planned. Today's guest lived through the dot-com boom, a merger gone sideways, a rare "un-merger," and multiple reinventions across three decades. Today's featured guest is an agency owner who lived through the dot com boom, a merger gone sideways, an unmerger (a rare event), and multiple reinventions over three decades. He'll talk about his journey and the lessons he's gained in resilience, clarity, and what it means to build a business that lasts. Tom Snyder is the founder and CEO of Trivera, a Milwaukee-based agency that originally launched in 1996 under the name Website Solutions. He got his start back when tables ruled the web, Netscape Navigator was leading the browser war, and you had to explain to clients what the internet even was. Tom's agency grew quickly through the dot com boom, became part of an early multi-agency rollup, unmerged after the dot com crash, and later rebuilt itself around strategic services, recurring revenue, and emerging technologies. Thirty years later, he has seen nearly every high and low this industry can deliver and has the scars and wisdom to match. In this episode, we'll discuss: The roll up that seemed like a dream and the subsequent meltdown. The rare chance to unmerger. Learning to adapt to new technologies. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. The Early Days of the Web: A Front Row Seat to Digital History Tom got into websites before most people even understood what a web browser was. He recalls visiting a friend in 1995 who showed him a website for a local jeweler. The fact that someone in Milwaukee could suddenly sell jewelry to anyone in the world blew his mind. That spark soon became Website Solutions, a one-man shop in his duplex basement that grew into a million-dollar agency within three years. These early days were defined by scrappiness. There were no WordPress installs, no Mailchimp, no Shopify. Agencies wrote their own CMS platforms, email tools, and ecommerce systems. For years, Trivera worked on project-based engagements. Sell a website. Build it. Launch it. Then hunt for the next one. It created a revenue roller coaster that made it hard to grow. Then the breakthrough came when someone asked a simple question: Why are you not offering annual retained services? Once they shifted the model, everything changed. Retainers gave them predictable cash flow, stability during downturns, and the ability to build deeper, longer-term partnerships. Inside the Dot-Com Boom and the Rollup That Promised Millions By the late nineties, agency rollups were happening everywhere. Big groups on the West Coast were buying smaller shops at high valuations, promising stock payouts that would multiply as the group grew. Tom's agency was acquired by one of these rollups. The offer was attractive: $1 million in stock with the expectation that it could balloon into ten million within a couple of years. For Tom, this was more than a payday. It felt like a way to secure better opportunities for his team. Higher salaries, better benefits, more resources. All the things agency owners often think a larger parent company can provide. But as the ink dried on the deal, the dot com crash hit. Internal battles erupted among the agency owners inside the rollup. Some wanted to scale fast and sell. Others were emotionally attached to their agencies and resisted change. As the economy collapsed, so did the plan. When an Agency Merger Falls Apart Tom describes the internal environment as chaos. Agencies within the rollup started blaming one another for the downturn. Some owners viewed Tom's Midwest operation as a weak link and argued it was a mistake to acquire them. Then came the breaking point. At a Las Vegas meeting that was supposed to chart a path forward, Tom learned that he would lose control of his agency. His wife, who served as CFO, would be dismissed. His team would report to another agency owner. This happened on September 10th. The next morning, as they sat in their hotel room trying to process what to do, the news broke that planes had hit the World Trade Center. The world changed, and so did their priorities. In that moment of clarity, they made the decision to walk away and unmerge. How a Rare Un-Merge Saved the Agency Unmerging from an agency rollup almost never happens. But because the rollup was already fracturing, the leadership was surprisingly open to it. They returned most of the shares, let Tom keep a small portion, and released the original agency name. From there, Tom and his wife rebuilt everything from scratch under a new identity. Although it felt like the right decision to make, they were still exiting what was still a financially stable operation to start from scratch, which was a scary but necessary step to take. They brainstormed names that felt Greek or Latin until they arrived at Trivera. The name itself was available only because the previous owner had just let the domain lapse. It felt like a small sign that starting over was the right move. This reset allowed Tom to build the agency the right way. No irrational exuberance, burn rates, or pressure to sell. Just strong culture, smart financial discipline, and an eye on durable business fundamentals. How Adapting to New Technology Helped Survive in Crisis After the dot com crash, new technologies created fresh opportunities. SEO, email marketing, mobile, and social opened new revenue streams that helped Trivera rebound each time the economy dipped. Tom noticed a pattern. Every downturn was followed by a brand new marketing wave that rewarded the agencies willing to embrace it early. One of the most pivotal moments came during the 2009 recession. The agency had lost clients, payroll was tight, and they needed a breakthrough. Everyone was asking about social media at the time, so Tom and his team built an event called Social Media University. They hustled for two months and ended up selling 400 tickets. The sales and sponsorship revenue kept their payroll alive and catapulted them into a new service category. Events like this do more than create revenue. They cement authority, give an agency a story in the market, and in Tom's case, it opened doors to new clients and positioned them for the next evolution of the agency. Letting Go of Comparison to Stay Focused on the Journey Despite the wins, Tom admits there were years he compared his agency to others and wondered why they scaled or sold faster, especially some that got the tools from his very social media event. It is easy to feel behind when you see competitors raising money, getting acquired, or shouting big revenue numbers. However, there's very little one can actually know about other agency's purchase deals. These stories are incomplete. You never know what the real terms were. You never know the headaches behind the scenes. And you definitely never know if they actually took money home. Success in the agency world is rarely a straight line. It is more often a messy, winding path filled with reinventions, hard conversations, and moments when you question everything. So agency owners struggling and watching others reach new milestones should remind themselves that longevity comes from resilience, not a perfect upward curve. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training As a user, do you still use search engines or have completely defaulted to AI? How will this shift reshape the agency world? How will ads work when people are only getting the one answer they need? Most agency owners are still treating SEO like it's 2012 — optimizing keywords, buying backlinks, and praying to the Google gods. But search has already changed. People are asking AI for answers, not Googling for links. And if you want your agency or your personal brand to stay visible in this new era, the rules are completely different. Today's featured guest will unpack the shift from SEO to AEO and why most businesses are invisible to AI without even realizing it. Kasim Aslam is one of the world's leading voices on Answer Engine Optimization. He runs one of the largest AEO communities and leads a six person research team that has analyzed millions of AI citations to understand how large language models choose their sources. He is also the author of The AEO Blueprint and the founder of multiple companies, including a staffing agency, a mastermind, and AEO.co. Kasim has spent the past year deep in the trenches studying how AI crawlers gather, filter, and prioritize information. When it comes to AEO, nobody has more real data. In this episode, we'll discuss: SEO is over. Understanding AEO. Why brands may get lost in LLMs. The quiet Google change that just changed everything in AI citations. The future of ads. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Why SEO Is No Longer Enough: The Rise of Answer Engine Optimization (AEO) To understand Answer Engine Optimization, we must first understand that, despite what some agencies may be saying, it is not the same as SEO. Traditional search engines prioritize links. That is why entire industries exist around buying them. In the world of LLMs, backlinks barely matter. The number one ranking factor for AI citations is schema markup. And only 12.4% of websites have clean, validated schema. In other words, nearly 90% of brands are invisible to AI crawlers, regardless of how strong their SEO is. Schema isn't just another optimization tactic. It is the visibility layer. It is the metadata that helps LLMs understand and categorize your content. If your schema is broken or missing, AI cannot reference you even if your content is excellent. This is the equivalent of having a beautiful storefront on a street no one can find. The second key is social mentions. In the same way SEO relied on links, AEO relies on people talking about you. For instance, a TikTok comment from someone in the agency industry saying Jason Swenk is their go-to agency guy counts as an authority signal. LLMs weigh these human mentions heavily. Finally, a lot of the nuances on AEO are changing every day, but Kasim has learned that the real key is building authority, long-form content. That along with clear schema and personal brand is the future of staying in the conversation. Why Personal Authority Beats Brand Authority in AI Search One of the biggest shifts Kasim highlights is that answer engines prefer individuals. A person can write a book, earn a PhD, share opinions, create content, develop mastery, and build authority in a way brands cannot. That means generalists are in trouble. If your expertise is scattered, AI won't know how to classify you and won't choose you as an authoritative answer. Meanwhile, someone who goes deep in a single topic becomes the preferred answer. It is a shift away from corporate brand authority and toward personal authority. Authority is not spread across a company anymore. It sits with people. Agencies that hide behind a brand name will lose visibility. Personal brands that plant a flag will win. For agency owners, this is huge. You do not need a bigger brand. You need clear expertise tied to a real person. This is exactly why Jason positions all the Agency Mastery content around him. Personalities thrive. Brands get lost. Where LLMs Get Their Data (and Why That Just Changed Overnight) Kasim's research revealed that 21 percent of all AI citations once came from Reddit. YouTube followed at 18.8 percent. These platforms had deep context and raw human conversation, which LLMs love. Then Google quietly changed everything. Twenty two days before the interview, Google cut off 90% of the internet from AI crawlers by reducing search results from hundreds to ten. Because LLMs rely on deep search results (not the top ten), reducing the searchable depth limits the information AI can access - removing platforms like Reddit from the AI training pipeline. AI tools rely heavily on these deeper results for nuance. By limiting access, Google essentially removed Reddit and other community based sites from the AI food chain. This change sent shockwaves through stock prices and visibility, and most people never noticed. Google is protecting the content needed to train AI because only two organizations truly own the global knowledge graph: Google and Amazon. OpenAI and the rest are crawling, not casing, the internet, which means they operate at a major disadvantage. Google is playing statecraft. And according to Kasim, Google will win the AI race. The Rise of Screenless Search and Voice-Driven Results According to Kasim, we are quickly moving toward a screenless world. Eric Schmidt has said the screenless future is years away, not decades. And the younger generation is already there. Over 55 percent of people under 25 use voice instead of text. Voice queries require different markup, structure, and formatting, and only 0.3 percent of websites use voice schema. Meanwhile, 65 percent of all searches end in zero clicks. People are asking, getting an answer, and moving on. That number does not even include the people who have stopped using search altogether and have already shifted to answer engines. This means your future website is not for your audience. It is for AI. Kasim is rebuilding his personal site in Notion because he believes CSS-light, simple, stripped down sites will perform better for AI ingestion. We are entering a world where content is created for machines first and humans last. How Google Gemini Is Rewriting the Future of Advertising Here is a wild data point. When Kasim set up new Chromebooks for his kids, he discovered the default search engine was not Google. It was Gemini. Google owns Chrome. Google owns Chromebooks. Yet they replaced its primary revenue driver on its own device with a product that currently has no ads. This tells you where the company is headed. They are rebuilding a new knowledge graph optimized for answer engines, while competitors still reply on the old search-oriented graph. And the future ad model will be nothing like what agencies grew up on. If one answer becomes the default experience, where do ads go? How are they shown? What are users willing to tolerate? And will businesses have to give away deep content to earn visibility the same way early YouTubers and bloggers did? These questions will reshape the entire lead generation ecosystem. Data, Moats, and the K-Shaped Economy The people who win in this new world are those who own data. Not tool access or workflows. Data. Custom GPTs, custom models, and proprietary knowledge bases become your moat. We are entering a K-shaped economy. Twenty percent of people and businesses will become unstoppable because their productivity will outpace demand. Eighty percent will fall to zero. The middle disappears. That means agency owners must adapt, evolve, and lean into deep expertise. Vibe coding (the rapid, exploratory use of AI tools) and no code platforms are accelerating this divide. Kasim's team recreated a software that normally costs ten thousand a year in a weekend. Entire SaaS categories are about to be wiped out. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Have you ever felt like enterprise clients were running your agency instead of the other way around? Buried in endless proposals no one reads, forced into rushed timelines, or watching your margins shrink every time a project drags out? Today's featured guest opens up about how he broke out of that exhausting cycle. Instead of over-delivering just to keep big clients happy, and seeing little return, he made the bold decision to focus on smaller, more committed clients who were ultimately more profitable and easier to build long-term relationships with. He'll share what he learned about sustainable growth, including why productizing your services sounds great in theory but can actually become counterproductive when it only happens externally. He'll also explain the sales shift that changed everything: offering a low-risk, "foot-in-the-door" engagement that qualifies prospects, builds trust, and creates a smooth path into deeper service offerings. Charlie Clark is the founder of Minty Digital, a boutique SEO agency focused on travel and lifestyle brands that originally launched in Barcelona and now operates from London. In this conversation, he'll break down the mindset, systems, and strategy needed to stop chasing validation from big brands and instead build a business where profitability, alignment, and respect come first. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why mid-market clients deliver higher profits than enterprise. How internal productization increases efficiency by 3X. How clear pricing transforms the sales cycle. How AI forced a new level of adaptability in SEO agencies. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. From Struggling Freelancer to Sustainable Agency Growth After a short stint in an agency at age 22, Charlie tried to go solo before realizing he didn't yet know how to grow a business. He assumed he could do it on his own and quickly learned he wasn't ready yet. Instead of quitting, he got a job as a Digital Marketing Manager, where he could make mistakes, learn operations, and understand what actually works inside a business. Moving to Barcelona created the perfect environment for momentum. His one-month stay turned into ten years after he landed several clients within weeks. His first retainer was €500 a month, which he laughs about now, but he admits it took years before he learned how to price correctly and move away from low-margin retainers. Those early years were full of trial and error, but the big breakthrough was realizing that charging more wasn't always the key to profit. Charging smarter was. Real Profit Lives in the Middle, Not the Top One of the strongest lessons Charlie learned was that bigger retainers did not equal bigger profit. Working with enterprise clients, he saw they could easily squeeze margins, the team would end up over-delivering, and on top of it all, payment terms were a nightmare. After years, he realized these clients often cost the agency money when the team over-delivered just to keep them happy. By contrast, the clients who had been with him since the early days, the ones paying between three and six thousand per month, were the most profitable and the most loyal. They bought the same deliverables. They stayed for years. And they matched the agency's internal processes beautifully. Once he realized this, he moved to intentionally pursuing that sweet spot. Not the five figure monthly retainers or the cut rate ones. The predictable, operationally aligned middle where the team can deliver consistently and profitably. For Charlie, this changed everything from sales cycle speed to team alignment to lifetime value. Internal Productization: The System that 3X Efficiency Many agencies think productization means selling rigid packages that make you look less strategic. Charlie took the opposite approach. Internally, his team adopted highly productized systems, templates, and SOPs. They knew exactly what to do for a three thousand dollar client versus a six thousand dollar one, and how much effort each one required. Externally, the offer still looked consultative and customized. Clients saw a broad range of what could be included, but the delivery stayed tight behind the scenes. This improved profitability, gave the team clarity, and dramatically sped up onboarding. The biggest win? It eliminated the "start from scratch every time" problem that slows agencies down and kills margins. How Clear Pricing Transforms the Sales Cycle Before productization, Charlie would spend hours on proposals that often got ghosted. Once he added transparent pricing, clear expectations, and prequalification to the website, the right clients were self-selecting before the call even happened. By the time he spoke with them, they understood the price and the structure. Now he closes clients on the call or even through a single WhatsApp message. This is the power of clarity. It shortens cycles, reduces friction, and saves enormous amounts of time for a lean team. However, transparent pricing attracts budget mismatches, so Jason recommends removing pricing from agency's websites and switching to triage calls and the Foot-In-The-Door model. At the end of the day, there are a thousand ways to create a better sales process. What matters is that it filters, qualifies, and positions you as the advisor. Why a Paid Discovery Offer Builds Trust and Prevents Ghosting Both Charlie and Jason agree that a small, paid upfront engagement solves the biggest challenge in agency sales. Trust. SEO agencies in particular fight an uphill battle here. The barrier to entry is low. There are thousands of one-person shops. Many prospects have been burned before. A small paid engagement builds confidence, shows value quickly, and prevents ghosting. The Foot-in-the-Door offer should be simple, done live with the client, and designed to build the relationship. Not overloaded with deliverables that overwhelm the client and make them feel uneducated. When done right, it leads naturally into a larger project and then a retainer. Charlie's Kickstart product functions the same way. For eight hundred dollars, clients get quick wins and clarity. It works because it gives prospects a safe way to test the relationship and because it positions the agency as a trusted advisor instead of a vendor chasing a proposal. How AI Forced a New Level of Adaptability in SEO Agencies Charlie admitted that two years ago he felt bored with SEO. Then AI exploded. Search interfaces changed. Clicks shifted. And suddenly the industry was moving faster than ever. For many agencies, this uncertainty created fear. For Charlie, it sparked energy. He leaned back in, started speaking at events, ran experiments on AI search, and brought a fresh curiosity back to himself and his team. He described the past year as a sink-or-swim moment for agencies. The ones who coasted struggled. The ones who adapted thrived. Lean teams with solid systems could move faster and deliver more value. In his words, being nimble is now a competitive advantage. Figuring out AI reignited his passion in the business but it was far too much to tackle alone. This is why agency owners should have a community to lean on to try to figure out changes in the industry. Your network will determine your speed of growth. Agency owners who surround themselves with peers sharing what works and what fails will survive the next wave of industry change. The ones who go alone will struggle. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Why do clients keep asking for deliverables they don't actually need? How to get them to focus on the outcome instead of the task list? Every agency owner has had clients show up asking for a website, SEO, or a million social posts, when what they actually need is something much deeper: more leads, more profit, more time back, and a business they're proud of again. Today's featured guest broke down how he built an 11-year-old shop that delivers exactly that. We dig into why small businesses really hire agencies, why "selling SEO" is a trap, and how simplifying complex work can make your agency more profitable, more trusted, and a hell of a lot easier to run. Nico Biggi, Founder of The Gorilla Agency a full-service Oregon digital agency that helps small businesses achieve their marketing goals. After applying to 31 agencies and hearing absolutely nothing back, he decided if no one would hire him, he'd simply build the place he wished existed. Eleven years later, his agency helps small businesses fall in love with their companies again by delivering marketing that feels personal, purposeful, and rooted in truth—not hype. In this interview, we'll discuss: Why clients don't want SEO and what small business are really buying. How radical simplicity makes agencies more profitable. Walking away from big clients to make your agency stronger. How AI is changing client expectations. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Why Clients Don't Actually Want SEO (And What They're Really Buying from Agencies) Nico knows why his clients first reach out and he understands that, in reality, no one wants SEO. No one wants a website. No one wants a content calendar. What they want is for their phone to ring. They want predictable revenue and to stop feeling behind. Basically, they want a business that finally looks and performs the way they imagined when they started it. Hence, when Nico sits with a new client, he doesn't take their request at face value. He keeps pulling the thread: Why do you want that? What are you really trying to fix? What's happening behind the scenes that made you reach out today? By the time he gets to the core problem, the tactical service almost never matches the thing they originally asked for. And that's where trust is built—showing clients the real path to their desired outcome, not the task list they think they need. As he puts it: Services are the toolkit. Outcomes are the reason you pick up the tools. How Radical Simplicity Makes Agencies More Profitable and Improves Client Trust During client meetings, Nico strives to strip away the complexity agencies tend to hide behind. Clients don't want a masterclass in keyword density or a dissertation-length PDF they'll never read. They want clarity. To him, the best operators and the best salespeople think like teachers. Teachers take complicated ideas and make them accessible. They speak in a way a fifth grader can understand, because simplicity builds confidence, and confidence builds buy-in. Inside his own agency, this shows up in the way he trains his team. No silos. No "not my job." Everyone learns how every part of the system works, from content, SEO, design, dev, and strategy. That shared understanding creates respect, efficiency, and a culture where no one feels like they're building in the dark. Everyone in his team is taught that no one is above anyone and they're all running the machine together. It's a mindset that creates accountability among the team and helps the client understand exactly what they're paying for. Why Saying No to Big Clients Can Make Your Agency Stronger Every agency owner has a moment where the "big" client forces them to rethink everything. For Nico, it was early on, when a client offered him more money than he even asked for ($10k a month) and three months later, he fired the client. On paper, it was a dream account. In practice, it drained the team, misaligned with their process, and became the catalyst for rebuilding the agency from the ground up. He spent two years refining every process—on-page and off-page SEO, content creation, design systems, communication workflows—all centered around one thing: making sure clients always know where their money is going and how it's working. Most agencies duct-tape their operations when things get messy instead of rebuilding the underlying, broken system. Nico rebuilt his foundation truly believing that all business owners need is for someone to create systems, truly listen to them, and help them articulate what they do for their clients. Authenticity Converts (And Your Clients Need Your Help to Show It) Nico's wife unknowingly became the perfect case study for modern buyer behavior. Before choosing anything (restaurants, local services, events) she checks: Reviews Menus FAQs Photos Location Details User experience Credibility That's what most customers are doing, and the standard Nico sets for his clients. He wants to work with businesses that engage with clients and answer their questions, show their work with real photos, tell compelling stories, show proof, have a clean, intuitive website. If it doesn't pass what Nico calls "the wife test" — if a business doesn't have clear answers, real photos, social proof, strong UX, and transparent information — it doesn't ship. And the same goes for exclusivity: Nico refuses to work with two companies in the same industry and service area. He wants to make one the best, not compete against himself for small wins. How AI Is Changing Client Expectations and Why It Won't Replace Agencies Nico sees AI from both angles: the opportunity and the threat. On one hand, AI makes clients think everything should be instant and $500. He's already had clients send him AI-generated instructions like they're firing off tasks to a robot. The danger isn't AI itself but rather clients misunderstanding what real strategy, design, content, and user experience actually require. But the other side is where he sees massive upside. AI removes the repetitive, thankless tasks that bog agencies down. It gives teams more room to think, solve, and create. It lets agencies deliver more value, not less, if they use it correctly. AI doesn't replace strategy and, more importantly, it doesn't replace the human connection that actually closes deals. Your network is your edge. Tools evolve but human trust, real expertise, and the ability to guide clients through complexity—that doesn't. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Would you ever walk away from a "dream job" to start over from scratch? And if you've spent years building a career inside big brands, does it ever feel like it might be too late to launch your own agency? Most people talk about leaving their corporate job to chase something bigger. Very few actually do it, and even fewer jump without a parachute. Today's featured guest is one of those rare ones. After nearly two decades leading social, content, and influencer teams for household brands, he walked away from his so called dream job to start his own shop without any safety net. Today, he calls himself a brand guy who happens to own an agency. Eric Gray is the owner of Maverick Content Studio, a twelve person, social-first agency for Fortune 500 brands. After a long and successful career in corporate, where he spent eighteen years building high performing social and content teams for companies like Universal Parks & Resorts, Eric realized he did not want the future he saw in front of him. He left Universal with two months of savings and zero clients. His story is a blueprint for leaders wondering whether to leave corporate and build something of their own Today his team works with brands like Advent Health, Winn-Dixie, and Travel + Leisure, helping them build audience, loyalty, and relevance through social-first content. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why target Fortune 500 brands? Why most agencies fail at building their own brand. Leaning on the power of personal brands. The hardest challenge of growing a young agency. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Walking Away from the Corporate Dream Job At age forty-one, Eric had success on paper but a growing dissatisfaction in real life. He was leading big teams, holding a prestigious role, and doing work others envied. But he felt stuck inside a corporate machine that limited purpose and impact. Although he's thankful for the time he spent in that world, he didn't believe he was living his full purpose inside an organization with lots of bureaucracy. With the support of his family and his pastor, Eric decided he didn't want to get to his later years wishing he had taken more risks and took the jump to find out what could happen if he bet on himself. Leaving was messy, scary, and absolutely not the playbook move. No freelancing ramp up. No contracted clients. It was no tidy transition. Yet he trusted that his experience and network would open the next chapter. Looking back, it did. Why Target Fortune 500 Brands? Most new agency founders start small. Eric went in the opposite direction. He targeted enterprise brands from day one because that is where his expertise lived. He had already built the blueprint inside Universal Parks & Resorts and believed he could help other brands treat social as more than an afterthought. Eric knew many enterprise brands still underinvest in social. They focus on one big campaign or hero asset while ignoring the loyalty and connection that is built through consistent storytelling. His agency's entire model revolves around what he calls the connection strategy. It is the belief that brands win when they create emotional relevance around the stories customers already care about. Furthermore, large brands have large scopes, which also means you do not need forty clients. You just need the right five. That became a core advantage as they started growing. Building the Early Client List Through Relationships Eric did not cold call or blast DMs. He leaned into what he had spent years building. A strong network with strong relationships. Most of their early clients came from people who had worked with Eric before, or from friends of those people inside other major brands. Big companies talk to each other more than you think. This doesn't mean it was easy for them. They still have a lot of work to do to break through. But if you invest in your network before you need it, it becomes your biggest shortcut when you step into entrepreneurship. Why Most Agencies Fail at Building Their Own Brand But Eric points out that almost no agencies truly build their own brand. They hide behind their walls and hope referrals save them. Others talk about themselves, focusing mainly on their people, process, and portfolio. Meanwhile they tell clients to produce consistent content, invest in story, and build an audience. When Eric launched Maverick, he refused to be another guy who leaves a corporate job and posts the generic LinkedIn announcement. He started building his personal brand alongside the agency's brand from day one, and worked with his wife to make his agency look and feel much larger than its actual humble beginnings from their home offce. Perception matters if you want to enter rooms above your weight class. The Power of a Personal Brand Eric leaned into his background in sports radio and launched the Radical Content podcast. Within a few months he secured major guests like the former CMO of Chick-fil-A, the head of digital for NASCAR, and leaders from Crocs and other major brands. Those interviews became relationships. Those relationships became visibility. And that visibility opened doors for the agency. The agency's channels became secondary to Eric's personal channels. Not because the company brand did not matter, but because personal brand builds trust faster than corporate messaging. Systems, Volume, and Practicing What You Preach Eric put serious resources into his content system. It started rough, with a single producer who did not fully work out. But it evolved into an eight person content ecosystem producing weekly episodes, daily clips, statics, and text posts. He treats his own brand as the test kitchen for the strategies they deploy for clients. When you do that, the content feels authentic and the results are real. For him, if you stay in the background and don't talk about who you are and what you do, you're losing valuable opportunities to build your audience. You should be the guinea pig for everything you sell. The Hardest Challenge of Growing a Young Agency Two types of struggles hit new founders: agency struggles and the first time entrepreneur struggles. On the agency side, Eric is unrelenting on talent. He will not hire someone just because they have experience. Their standards are high, which means the search takes longer. Orlando is growing but not a major market for high level social and content talent. They once received nine hundred applicants for a creative director role. On the founder side, the hardest challenge is mental. Building a company that feeds twelve families is a heavy responsibility. The expectations you have for where you think you should be often do not match where you actually are. That gap can mess with your head. Eric uses a list of personal non negotiables to stay mentally sharp: hard morning workouts, time with faith, reading goals daily, taking short breaks during the day, reviewing priorities, and going to bed on time. The last one is the hardest for him. But like most discipline problems, skipping the basics is usually what leads to feeling off. Why Agency Entrepreneurship Requires a Long Game Mindset For Eric, entrepreneurship is staring the hard thing in the face and moving forward anyway, which is where his non-negotiables come in. For his part, Jason has always treated entrepreneurship as a game. Sometimes you do everything right and still get hit with a bad roll of the dice. The goal is not perfection. It is persistence. The memories you keep are rarely the easy seasons. They are the nights you and your team fought through the hard stuff. For this reason, his advice for agency owners is to have fun along the way. Don't wait until your kids are grown or your agency is sold to live. Make the journey the part you enjoy. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training What if growth doesn't make things easier but actually just raises the stakes? Agency life looks glamorous from the outside, but the real growth usually starts in the messy middle. Today's featured guest just wanted to build something of her own, but quickly learned that growth means the challenges get harder, instead of easier, and that your client and team retention will always be the best measures of success, since it means you've managed to build a business that has a real impact on clients and a culture people never want to leave. She'll share the pressure she felt as the agency got bigger, how she learned to celebrate the little wins, and how she built a culture that has truly worked as a strategic advantage. Elyse Lupin is the president and founder of Elysium Marketing Group, a full-service agency specializing in food and franchise marketing. With more than a decade of running the business, she has scaled from a new mom charging a thousand bucks for her first client to leading a well known, franchise-focused marketing team recognized for expertise, execution, and a culture clients genuinely enjoy working with. In this episode, we'll discuss: Why growth gets harder as your agency scales. 2 metrics that actually predict agency success. How culture became her agency's competitive advantage. The importance of letting go instead of babysitting tasks. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. How Mentoring Can Be the Push You Need Elyse started her agency during what most people would consider the absolute worst time to make a career change. She had a newborn, a mortgage, and a job that drained her every morning as she left her child in daycare. That friction reached a breaking point. A mentor tossed out traditional job options, but Elyse surprised even herself when she said, "I just want to start my own thing." Instead of talking her out of it, that mentor became her first client. It's one of those decisions you look back on and realize how thin the line is between staying stuck and building something you love. In the early days, she charged way too little, as nearly all agency owners do for those first engagements. But like she said, ignorance can be a gift. When you are early and scrappy, you move fast and celebrate every small win because you have no idea what's coming next. Why Growth Gets Harder, Not Easier After eleven years, Elyse said she was shocked by how the difficulty of running an agency evolves. Things do get easier in some ways, but each stage comes with a new complexity level. As the agency grew, so did the pressure to hire better people, keep up quality, retain clients, and juggle new demands that never existed in the early days. You go from hands-on fulfillment to team building to culture shaping to visionary leadership. Each level is a different skill set and none of it is simple. Scaling is not a victory lap. It is a longer, more strategic version of the same game you started with: solve the next problem without losing momentum. For Elyse, it's all about stopping to celebrate the little wins and let herself enjoy watching her team crush new challenges. 2 Metrics That Predict Agency Success: Client and Team Retention A lot of agency owners fall into the trap of measuring success by employee count or top line revenue. Elyse prefers to track retention. She considers it far more meaningful. Clients only stick around if they are getting results and some of her clients have been with her agency since the beginning. Employee retention matters just as much, because no amount of growth means anything if the team delivering the work is burning out or bailing. Even during COVID, when most of their food clients disappeared overnight, Elyse's agency found a way to pivot into B2B, protect the team, and still grow. Not at the same pace, but still upward. That speaks to culture, resilience, and leadership. In the end, what really matters is how happy you are in the business, whether or not your team is happy, and how profitable the business actually is. These are the things that will guarantee you stay in business and not start to resent it. How Culture Becomes an Agency's Competitive Advantage Elyse's agency has a spirit week. costume day. concert tshirt day. team jersey day. They joke about team members hearing her excitement through the office walls. But behind the fun is something serious. A happy team performs better, stays longer, and delivers higher quality work. She also implemented rituals that reinforce positivity and growth. Every Friday on remote days, they kick off with Wins of the Week. Team members spotlight others who went above and beyond, which forces everyone to pause and recognize progress. Then there is Elysium Advancement, a bi-weekly internal training where someone teaches a new AI tool or system. It keeps the whole agency sharp without overwhelming everyone with the nonstop flood of new tech. Finding the Balance Between a Remote and In-Person Team Elyse's agency is in office Monday through Thursday and remote on Fridays. She believes their productivity is higher together, especially since half the business is design focused. Instead of 15 email threads, they solve problems in 30 second conversations. Some teams thrive remote. Others thrive together. The important thing is knowing which one your agency needs. For them, an in-person environment helps them move faster and design better. Letting Go: Building Leaders Instead of Babysitting Tasks Most agency founders struggle with this. Elyse has built three strong department heads who now own their areas. Sure, she still has a hand in more than she probably should, but the structure is finally allowing her to think bigger instead of babysitting tasks. She also knows what her team would tell her to stop doing. Being too loud in the office. Which, as problems go, is one of the funnier ones. The Power of Picking a Niche Years ago, Elyse heard this very podcast's advice about niching down and resisted it. Like most agency owners, she felt her client base was too broad to narrow down. After COVID, she finally made the leap and put a stake in the ground around franchise marketing. She got her Certified Franchise Executive credential, doubled down on franchising events, and made franchise marketing a core part of the brand. And the decision paid off immediately. Franchise systems want a partner who understands their world, their FDDs, their local store marketing needs, and their complexity. Her agency became that partner. And with that clarity came authority, opportunity, and recognition. Niching did not reduce her client pool. It strengthened her position and made her easier to hire. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training AI is changing the agency landscape faster than most owners can keep up with. Tools are popping up daily, clients are asking if rates should drop, and your team is either fired up or freaked out. Today's featured guest talks about what it takes to build an agency that thrives in a world obsessed with shiny new tech, where the edge is not more tools. It is better leadership, human connection, and an incubator mindset that keeps them ahead without drowning in the noise. Michael Davern is the CEO of Incept, an AI-enhanced, digital-first agency that has been around for a decade. Today, his agency blends automation, machine learning, and human-centered strategy to help enterprise clients grow with clarity and smart execution. He is an early adopter who still believes the real edge is human connection and wants to encourage agency owners to really think about who should lead. In this episode, we'll discuss: AI-enhanced vs. AI-first: what actually creates agency value. Leading an agency through rapid AI change. Why human-first agencies win in the long run. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Evolving from a Specific Niche to a Full Service Agency Before agency life, Michael spent years in corporate America and even longer in the music industry as an artist development rep. That career went up in flames when the label collapsed and no one got paid. After a brief return to corporate, he approached his now business partner with an idea to sell text message marketing, and suddenly he was an entrepreneur learning the agency game the hard way. Early on he chased small business clients with $49 starter packages and cheesy platinum tiers. Nobody wanted it. The market did not understand text marketing yet and the value was unclear. Everything changed when an enterprise vendor in the Medicare insurance space let them into their workflow. Overnight texting became a revenue driver. That win opened the door to more enterprise relationships and pushed them to expand far beyond their original niche. What started as a simple vendor relationship ballooned into a full service digital agency. With time, growth came from necessity and opportunity, not a master plan. Michael admits they were often too early to the game, but that curiosity and experimentation kept them alive long enough to get good. AI-Enhanced vs. AI-First: What Actually Creates Agency Value Plenty of agencies slap "AI-first" on their website. Michael prefers to say "AI-enhanced" since "AI-first" implies handing the keys to robots or machines. That is not what his agency does. Instead they use AI to enhance execution. They were early with automation, early with machine learning through the IBM Watson test program, and early with programmatic bidding when DSPs were still new. Those experiments shaped how they work today. Now, they use all this knowledge to save money, time, and drive better results for clients. Clients are not paying for prompts or tools. AI lets the team save time, move faster, and stay in the lab testing new options without drowning in busywork. In Michael's view, agencies are not competing on deliverables anymore. They are competing on thinking. Navigating the AI Gold Rush Without Losing Your Mind There is a tool for everything now and most of them promise the world and deliver nothing. Michael believes the real threat is not AI taking jobs. It is crappy tools cluttering decision making and distracting agency owners from what matters. To keep his team sharp, he sets an AI budget for every employee at his agency. Everyone is encouraged to experiment, explore, and bring ideas back to the incubator. On Fridays, they compare notes. What worked. What flopped. What needs more testing. That culture of curiosity is what keeps them out in front rather than scrambling to catch up. Leadership in the Age of Rapid Change Nineteen months ago, Michael made a call. The company was going all in on AI enhancement. He sat the team down and said, "This is where we are heading." If anyone was uncomfortable, they could talk privately or get help transitioning to a different job. Not one person left. Clarity breeds confidence. When owners waffle or delay, their team feels it. When owners point the ship and support the crew, people dig in. Michael's team embraced experimentation because they were given structure, purpose, and room to contribute. And because of that leadership, his agency now runs on flat rate pricing tied to outcomes. They killed the old hourly model and their clients love them for it. Human-First Agencies Always Win the Long Game When was the last time you met in person with any of your top five clients? That's the type of effort they'll remember. Michael's team meets every top client in person at least quarterly. Their average client lifetime is just under seven years, which is unheard of when the industry average is barely over a year. Real relationships create real retention. When you have shared a meal, a drink, and actual time together, you are not just a vendor. You are a partner. And partners do not get replaced by the next AI First agency trying to undercut your price. The real advantage for your agency will be transparency and the ability to provide a personalized service. AI will give you more time to work on strategy, but you still have to offer the best client experience you can. Ultimately, clients are paying for more brain and less execution, "and doesn't everyone want that?" Michael asks. Choosing the Right Clients and Protecting Your Sanity Another theme Michael returns to is knowing when to say no. Early on, every agency chases whales. The bigger the better. Then you land one and realize it might sink the whole boat. Maturity is learning to pass on the wrong fish or hand them off to someone who is better built for it. Agencies do not need hundreds of clients. They need the right fraction of the market that values what they do. When you protect your focus, your retention goes up and your stress goes down. Michael's agency grows steadily because they stack clients instead of scrambling to replace them. The only clients they lose are the ones who stop paying their bills. Building a Culture of Innovation Without Burning Out Agencies talk a big game about innovation, but most owners are stuck riding a bike with square wheels and they refuse to get off, Michael says. This is the trap most agency owners fall into. They are too busy to innovate, too stuck to delegate, and too overwhelmed to lead. For him, the answer is simple. Get off the bike. Set the direction, and build the space for experimentation, because the future is coming whether you want it or not. Who Should Lead AI Inside an Agency Who should lead experimentation when the owner is overwhelmed? Michael believes someone has to claim the role, plant a stake, and move. At his agency, he oversees the incubator, but several team members drive the work. Your lead developer will experiment with different tools than your creative director. Your strategist will explore different workflows than your media buyer. Give them a budget. Give them a purpose. Give them ownership. The biggest mistake is waiting for someone else to figure it out. Agencies that delay will be crushed by owners who are willing to get to work and figure this technology out. Follow your curiosity. For agency owners stepping into that role, Michael suggests absorbing everything you can and staying curious. And for those who are further down in the ladder but still want to lead experimentation with new technologies: speak up and volunteer. If you're in a culture where that experimentation is not embraced, then maybe it's time to leave. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training If your inbound pipeline dries up tomorrow, do you have a channel that can refill it on demand? Every agency owner needs at least one reliable way to attract new leads when things slow down. Today's guest doubled down on a podcast as his inbound engine, and it paid off big. But launching your first episode is just the beginning. The real growth comes from getting your ideal clients as guests, creating a conversation that builds connection (not just content), and staying consistent long enough to earn momentum. He'll break down how to find the right niche, build authority through partnerships, and turn podcasting into a powerful inbound system that keeps quality leads coming in on autopilot. Chase Clymer is the co-founder of Electric Eye, a Shopify Plus partner agency specializing in conversion rate optimization (CRO) and e-commerce growth strategy. Since 2016, he and his team have been helping direct-to-consumer brands optimize their digital storefronts to drive measurable results. Beyond his client work, Chase also hosts the Honest Ecommerce podcast, where he interviews founders and shares unfiltered lessons on what it takes to grow an online brand. In this episode, we'll discuss: On his strategic partnership with Shopify. Podcasting as a business development engine. The key to consistently booking great guests. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. From Touring Musician to E-Commerce Marketer Before entering the agency world, Chase was a touring musician in a pop punk band. The road life didn't pay the bills, so he began experimenting with photography, design, and digital marketing, all skills that eventually laid the foundation for his agency. Towards the end of his music career, Chase's future co-founder Sean approached him with a few freelance projects. They quickly found themselves with six clients, and a lot of questions about taxes, pricing, and structure. The early chaos of being creators first and business owners second forced them to learn fast, especially when it came to how to position themselves, how to deliver results, and ultimately, how to specialize. As Chase puts it, "We realized if you can validate the results you're getting for people, they're going to be happier to pay you." That mindset led them toward e-commerce, where success is measurable and client satisfaction is tied directly to sales metrics. How Strategic Platform Partnerships (Like Shopify) Accelerate Agency Growth One of the biggest accelerators for his agency was its partnership with Shopify. When the agency first started, they were platform-agnostic, working across WordPress and other technologies. But after joining Shopify's Partner Program, Chase and his team found something rare — an actual human on the other end of the email. That support led to event invitations, collaboration opportunities, and eventually a deep specialization that positioned them as trusted experts. Chase credits much of their success to that early alignment. "We just happened to be in the right place at the right time," and the lesson for him was: pick your ecosystem wisely and go all in. He advises other agency owners to double down on one technology or niche rather than trying to be everything to everyone. "If your roof is leaking, you don't hire a general contractor, you hire a roofer," he says. It's the kind of clarity that will help you see real growth. Does this mean you should only aim to partner with Shopify if you're in the ecommerce niche? Not at all. Chase recognizes that part of their success story came from having found Shopify at its early stages. This allowed the agency to grow alongside them and unlock more opportunities. Using a Podcast as a Scalable Inbound Marketing Channel For many agencies, lead generation is an uphill battle. For Chase, it became a creative outlet that turned into a consistent revenue driver. In 2019, he launched his podcast, Honest Ecommerce, as a way to avoid writing blogs. But over time, it became a cornerstone of his agency's inbound and relationship strategy. Chase now uses the podcast to connect with ideal clients by inviting them on as guests. Instead of cold outreach, he reaches out on LinkedIn to CEOs of brands he admires, offering them a platform to share their stories. That invitation often leads to partnerships, friendships, and often clients. "You're not starting off on your back foot," he explains. "You're building a genuine relationship." Chase also uses the podcast to gain access to industry events. With a media pass, he's able to attend conferences, host panels, and meet prospects in person. Once relationships are formed, his back-end systems, from automated follow-up emails to segmented nurture lists, keep his agency top of mind until the timing aligns for collaboration. Proven Outreach Strategies to Book High-Value Podcast Guests When Chase comes across a brand doing something interesting, he doesn't pitch them services. Instead of positioning himself as another agency trying to sell, he looks to position himself as a platform offering value first. Once a potential guest accepts, Chase sets up a short 15-minute pre-interview call that he personally conducts. He uses this session to walk them through what to expect, answer any questions, and — most importantly — build rapport. As he puts it, "More time in the paint (more reps) makes the second conversation a lot easier." That small investment of time pays off, turning what could be a stiff Q&A into a relaxed, real conversation when recording day comes. This pre-call also helps him assess whether the guest is a fit for his audience and gently coach less experienced founders on how to tell their story in an engaging way. Then, before the episode goes live, he'll sometimes nudge guests to check out a few existing episodes from Honest Ecommerce. This helps them get familiar with the tone and flow of his show. Ultimately, the goal for Chase is always to create a cool piece of content. Anything else that may come from the relationship is a bonus. Why Consistency Is the Real Growth Lever in Podcast Lead Generation Chase believes all agency owners who are serious about making their business a success need to start building the inbound channels that produce on-demand leads. In his case, starting the podcast was the move that changed everything for his agency. However, podcasting will take time to produce results and requires consistency. Many business owners start a podcast and then give up after a couple of months. Publishing your first episode is only the beginning. What follows is a commitment to showing up week after week. "That is half the battle," he says. Podcasting, like SEO, compounds over time. The relationships built and the authority earned don't pay off instantly, but when they do, they create an inbound machine that's difficult to replicate. Pro Tip: Chase also believes podcasting can be a great tool in staying top of mind for clients and being a better strategic partner. He even does bonus episodes with partners and has a separate newsletter for partners he sends once a month with news of what the agency has been up to (attending a conference, launching a new website, etc). It usually produces at least a few referrals. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training If you're one of the many owners concerned that AI will end the agency model, what are you doing to stay relevant? How are you building lasting relationships that help clients see your value beyond executing tasks? Artificial intelligence, automation, and enterprise-level change have everyone in the agency world wondering what's next. However, agencies have managed to stay relevant with past technological disruptions and the answer has always been: you need to adapt. Today's featured guest has scaled his business through seven iterations for over fourteen years by being willing to adapt to change, and the AI era is no exception. He'll unpack how agencies can stay relevant when technology, data, and client expectations are evolving faster than ever. He also talks about the importance of partnership-based client relationships and why soft skills (not just smart systems) are the real differentiator in the next decade. Ben Childs is the President of Digital Reach, a full-stack B2B marketing consultancy serving SaaS, cybersecurity, AI, and data-driven technology clients. With deep expertise in paid media, SEO, RevOps, and digital experience, Ben's team helps enterprise companies integrate their marketing, data, and operations to drive real revenue growth. Since launching in 2011, Digital Reach has evolved through multiple "versions" as it adapted to the changing marketing landscape, becoming one of the most respected players in modern B2B marketing. In this episode, we'll discuss: The soft skills edge that outperforms AI. Why you should start running toward the problem. The power of in-person connections in a remote-forward industry. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. How Agencies Can Stay Relevant in AI Revolution At a recent Ad Week event, Ben heard a fellow agency leader predict that all agencies would be "dead in two years" because of AI. Her point: enterprise companies are developing their own language models and internal data systems, cutting agencies out of the picture. Ben does admit this is true. However, his outlook is more optimistic, seeing several possible solutions. Should agencies be partnering with third-party data providers? Should they adjust their skill set? In his view, the need for strategic expertise and technical problem-solving won't disappear anytime soon. The agencies that thrive will be those who adapt to new tools while deepening their human value—helping clients navigate complexity, not just execute tasks. "The reality," Ben explains, "is that hiring people to help you solve hard problems isn't going away. Business is always changing, and that's a huge opportunity for agency owners willing to think and integrate, not panic." Why Soft Skills Outperform AI in the Agency World As agencies evolve, the differentiator isn't going to be who can use AI faster, it's who can understand and support people better. When it comes to enterprise clients, marketing execution has become table stakes. What truly sets a great agency apart is the ability to navigate organizational politics, manage internal friction, and act as a trusted advisor inside complex companies. "We're armchair psychologists half the time," he laughs. "Our clients know we're good at SEO or paid media. What they really need is someone who helps them get things approved, makes their life easier, and has their back when things get tough." Soft problems will never go away and, Ben argues, may even increase in value when the execution problems potentially become commoditized. Agencies that ignore human connection will lose, just like traditional firms that refused to go digital twenty years ago. In the end, the "people part" never goes out of style. Adapting Your Agency: Lessons from 7 Business Iterations Ben started Digital Reach in 2011 using his grandmother's dresser as a desk and charging $200 a month for Google Ads management. Since then, the agency has reinvented itself seven times—each evolution aligning to new markets, services, and technologies. From scrappy freelancer to B2B consultancy, Ben's philosophy has stayed the same: build, learn, and change before you're forced to. "We're on Digital Reach 7.0 in 14 years," he says. "We'll probably hit version 12.0 in the next ten. You can't just ride your old business idea into Valhalla. Some people will always be better at adapting, and that will never change." WhyPartnership (Not Performance) Determines Client Retention When agencies talk about "partnership," it often sounds like marketing fluff. But Ben explains that true partnership is built on trust and reliability, not just metrics. Most clients don't fire agencies because of poor performance; they leave because of broken trust, poor communication, or lack of understanding. "When clients say, 'You don't get our business,' that's when numbers start to matter," Ben explains. "If they can't trust you when things go wrong, you're done." Ben understands that helping clients solve internal problems like procurement delays or team politics can do more to build loyalty than a great campaign. Running toward the problem, taking ownership, and communicating transparently are the fastest ways to strengthen relationships that last across multiple companies. Build Client Trust Fast by Running Toward the Problem Other than delivering results and making your clients' lives easier, Ben believes another powerful way to build trust is not being afraid to admit your mistakes and being quick to fix them. Honesty builds staying power. When agencies take responsibility for missteps and present a clear plan for fixing them, clients respond with respect, not resentment. Do not avoid the problem. In fact, you should run towards the problem and face the situation head on. You'll get more benefit of the doubt from clients with this attitude. Ben's team once led a client call with bad news—the metrics were down. Instead of hiding it, they explained what went wrong, what they learned, and how they'd adjust. "The client was ready to run through a wall for us after that," he says. "They loved that we owned it." The Power of In-Person Connection in a Remote-Forward Industry As agencies lean more into remote work, Ben calls for agencies to make an effort to meet with clients in person: "In-person will always be in vogue." It'll help your clients understand who you are, rather than just staring at your picture on Zoom, and trying to form a true connection. He encourages owners to set a clear revenue threshold for when to invest in face-to-face meetings—whether that's a kickoff, annual review, or shared conference. When clients meet you over pizza and a drink, it transforms the relationship from vendor to partner. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Is your agency growing fast but still running without the right structure or leadership team to sustain that growth? If too many people are reporting directly to you, it's a clear sign you've outgrown your current setup. But building that next layer of leadership isn't as simple as promoting your top performers. Without a clear strategy, those well-intentioned promotions can backfire, causing confusion, turnover, and setbacks that stall your agency's momentum. Today's featured guest learned that lesson firsthand. After experiencing a year of costly turnover caused by the wrong management moves, he came away with a better understanding of what real leadership development looks like. In this episode, he'll share what it takes to scale beyond seven figures, the mistakes that nearly derailed his agency's growth, and the key shifts that helped him build a stronger, more sustainable business. Brandon Rost is the founder and CEO of be Marketing, a Pennsylvania-based advertising agency that helps brands grow through creative, digital, and media strategies. Over the past decade and a half, Brandon has built his agency from a solo operation into a multi-million-dollar powerhouse by focusing on relationships, resourcefulness, and relentless problem-solving. He's proof that you don't need to have all the answers when you start, just the willingness to figure it out along the way. In this episode, we'll discuss: How to reinvest profits strategically to scale your agency sustainably. Why promoting top performers doesn't already create effective leaders. The KPI's and systems that improved profit and cash flow. The mindset shift that turns fast growth into longterm success. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Why Being Resourceful Is the Key to Building an Agency Brandon didn't plan on running an agency. At the time, he was managing social media for a corporate job and bartending on the side when a PR firm owner offered him a shot at managing her clients' social accounts. What started as ten small accounts quickly snowballed into a full-time business. Like most early-stage entrepreneurs, he had no idea what he was doing at first. He sent invoices in Word documents, figured out HR and finance on the fly, and said "yes" to every opportunity—then learned how to deliver later. It wasn't glamorous, but it worked. That resourcefulness became his superpower. As anyone who has grown a business can tell you, success comes from resourcefulness - not knowing everything. You don't have to know everything right now. Just figure it out and make it work. Scaling Up: Investing Every Dollar Back In the Agency For the first few years, Brandon kept bartending to cover his bills and put every dollar the agency made back into growth. That discipline gave him the runway to build a real company without debt or short-term panic. He hired his first part-time employee within a year, went full-time around year two, and hit seven figures by year four in 2014. However, crossing the million-dollar mark didn't come with confetti and fireworks. It came with more responsibility, more moving parts, and a steeper learning curve. "Everyone thinks hitting a million feels different," Brandon said. "It doesn't. It just brings on more work." Instead of waiting for that milestone to magically change things, focus on building the right foundation so the business can continue to grow without you doing everything. Make it a point to continue to delegate part of that workload every quarter, and after a couple of years, you'll find you've gotten your freedom back. Learning to Lead and Let Go: Building a Leadership Team Brandon learned the hard way that leading people requires a completely different skill set than landing clients. As the agency grew, he at one point had seventeen people reporting to him and eventually realized it just wasn't sustainable. It was the right moment to create different positions that would oversee different departments. However, his strategy was flawed at first; "We elevated people just to elevate them," he said. "And it set us back a year." He never stopped to ask whether or not those employees were ready or even suited for management roles. As a result, they dealt with a year of turnover followed by slowly getting back on track. The lesson for Brandon was: put the right people in the right seats, and don't assume your best technician wants to—or should—manage others. Leadership isn't a promotion; it's a whole new role. Knowing Your Numbers and Turning Chaos Into Profitability Once the business hit its stride, Brandon turned his focus to profitability. He shared how the agency once got caught in a dangerous cash flow loop of collecting Google ad payments for clients and effectively becoming a bank instead of a marketing firm. After untangling that, his team started tracking key KPIs more closely: AGI (Agency Gross Income) in the 55–60% range Net profit around 10–12% Payroll around 33% of AGI By simplifying operations and separating client media costs from agency revenue, they stabilized cash flow and built a healthier margin. Simply put, what you measure improves and, for Brandon, that meant finally treating the numbers as a steering wheel instead of a rearview mirror. Sales: The Last Most Agency Owners Are Ready to Hang Up Even after 15 years, Brandon still handles most of the sales himself. It's something he admits he should've delegated earlier, but building a sales team isn't as easy as hiring a "radio guy" and hoping they sell. After two failed attempts, Brandon realized the problem wasn't the salespeople but rather the lack of systems. Now, the new plan is to support the team with brand marketing, create a "sales tackle box" full of proven client stories, and build repeatable processes for outreach, follow-up, and closing. You'll always be the best salesperson until you document what's in your head. With the right structure and stories in place, a sales team can finally scale what made the founder successful in the first place. What Scaling Fast Taught Him About Patience and Culture Looking back, Brandon said the biggest surprise was how much patience real growth takes—and how easy it is to lose sight of culture while scaling fast. Whether it was figuring out HR policies, managing team dynamics, or setting boundaries for office events, every new level came with a new layer of learning. He now focuses on balance: growing deliberately, empowering leaders, and making sure the culture that got them here doesn't get lost along the way. "We've learned to grow smarter, not faster," he said. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training How do you ensure the highest possible retention levels at your agency? What reasons do you give employees to stay and develop their careers at your agency? Today's featured guest hires fresh talent right out of college. People his team can train into the sort of workers who grow with the agency. However, young talent tends to be ambitious and likely to move on quickly to the next opportunity. To boost retention, he has created a growth path for employees that are a right fit with the agency. He'll break down how he's learned to hire intentionally and build a culture that grows people as fast as profits. McKay Salisbury is the founder and CEO of FiveStar Commerce, an eCommerce agency based in Orem, Utah. His team manages Amazon, Walmart, and Target Plus accounts for over 450 brands annually. What started as a freelancing side hustle on Upwork has grown into a full-service agency focused on team development, in-person collaboration, and steady internal promotion. In this episode, we'll discuss: How to hire and retain young talent in a competitive market. Why in-person culture drives faster growth and better retention. The career path strategy that turns entry-level hires into future leaders. How to build systems that grow people as fast as profits. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Growing his Freelancer Gigs to a Thriving Amazon Agency McKay's journey began while working at a small Amazon marketing firm, when he started freelancing on Upwork to make a little extra money. Within six months, his freelance income reached half of his salary, and he decided to go all in. Moving into his sister's basement, McKay began full-time freelancing, which quickly evolved into his own agency. Within the first month after quitting his job, he was already matching his old salary. McKay's early days were lean, but the momentum from focusing entirely on client work set the foundation for future growth. Hiring Early and Building Support Systems McKay's first hire came just a month into freelancing full-time. It was a part-time assistant he had previously worked with. That decision to delegate quickly accelerated FiveStar Commerce's capacity. Within five months, he added his first full-time project manager and opened a physical office. Unlike many agency owners who chase remote freedom, McKay found that in-person collaboration gave him structure, focus, and culture. For him, separation between work and home drives productivity. Just like he had learned in college, where studying at the library helped him focus, McKay found it much easier to create great work and culture working in-person. The physical office became the heartbeat of FiveStar Commerce's growth, helping employees feel part of something bigger and creating accountability that can be hard to replicate remotely. Why In-Person Work Still Wins for Training and Culture When it came time to really build his team beyond just a few employees, McKay found it was either difficult or expensive to find the right talent with experience in his particular niche. It wasn't an option for an agency just starting out, so he leaned on investing time on training young talent. It made sense cost wise, and location wise, given they are near two large universities, which provided a supply of fresh talent eager to learn. To make this approach work, the agency had to adapt its environment to support constant learning. A central part of this is their in-person operations, since McKay noticed that even the smallest physical arrangements, like which direction desks faced, could impact how quickly new hires learned and that having trainers nearby reduced hesitation and built confidence. He also observed that remote employees tended to "float away" after 6–12 months. While remote setups can work for certain roles, McKay found that building culture, energy, and loyalty thrive best face-to-face. This philosophy shaped his agency's identity and helped retain young, ambitious team members eager for mentorship. Designing Career Paths that Retain Talent Beyond intentional training, this strategy worked because he paired it with a clear path for career progression. Every employee starts as a generalist learning all aspects of Amazon management, from ads to design to optimization. After 6–12 months, they move into project management roles, and the top performers advance to senior project manager positions. Each promotion comes with a pay increases - typically around $10,000 per year - which keeps employees motivated and invested in long-term growth. This proved to be a great way to increase retention, which is one of the biggest challenges for growing agencies. As McKay puts it, "If you're not giving people a reason to grow, LinkedIn will." Personality Over Experience: Hiring for Potential When hiring fresh graduates, how can you gauge whether or not they'll be a good fit in the long run? McKay looks for personality traits that predict leadership potential—confidence, communication skills, and curiosity. The interview process focuses on how candidates carry themselves, not just what's on their resume. Those who communicate clearly and think proactively tend to rise fastest. This approach ensures that every new hire is a potential project manager within a year or two. McKay views entry-level roles not as long-term positions but as training grounds for leadership. By prioritizing culture fit and growth mindset, he's been able to maintain consistent quality while scaling quickly. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training How are you preparing your clients to start thinking about AI as part of their SEO strategy? Are you educating them on what they can expect now that the landscape is changing with AI optimization? As an agency, you should be starting these conversations because you can be sure your clients are already thinking about AI, even if they still don't understand its applications for how clients will get to their content. Artificial intelligence isn't just changing how people find information, it's rewriting the rules of search altogether. Today's featured guest is already running AI audits for his clients; he thinks all agency owners should be doing this. He'll unpack what AI optimization really means for agencies, marketers, and business owners who've lived and breathed SEO for decades. Vishal Mahida is the Director of Digital Marketing at E2M Solutions, where he helps over 100 agencies scale their SEO and digital marketing operations. With a 40+ person team specializing in SEO, PPC, and operations support, Vishal works directly with agencies on systems that drive measurable growth and keep them ahead of major shifts in the industry. In this episode, we'll discuss: SEO vs. AI Optimization No, SEO is not dead, so your website still matters. Preparing your agency and clients for AI search. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio The Difference Between SEO and AI Optimization There's a lot of buzz around how AI has come to change and maybe even replace SEO. Vishal clarifies that AI optimization isn't replacing SEO, it's expanding it. Traditional SEO focused primarily on optimizing for Google rankings, keywords, and backlinks. The goal was to get traffic from search results. But as Vishal explains, the modern search landscape has fragmented. Users are now searching on multiple platforms including ChatGPT, Perplexity, and Claude, not just Google. This shift means brands must move beyond "ranking on Google" and focus on being visible wherever their audience searches for information. Whether someone asks ChatGPT for "the best roofers in Austin" or Google's AI mode for "running shoes under $5,000," AI systems are gathering and summarizing information across multiple sources in real time, including social platforms like Reddit, Quora, and LinkedIn. Think about it as building a multimedia visibility strategy and ensuring your brand, expertise, and answers exist across platforms that large language models (LLMs) pull from. "You're not optimizing for one search engine anymore," he says. "You're optimizing for how the internet talks about you." Why Your Website Still Matters in the AI Era Will websites become irrelevant if AI answers everything for users? According to Vishal, websites won't disappear, they'll evolve. Think of them as your source of truth rather than your traffic generator. When AI summarizes answers for users, it still references real content and authoritative sources. So, your website remains essential for credibility, events, and conversion, even if fewer users arrive there through traditional search. For instance, if someone asks ChatGPT about agency growth events in Austin, and you've mentioned your event across social media, your website, and podcasts, AI will likely include it in the results. "That's how people find you now," Vishal agrees. "Not just through search but through signals from every platform." Of course, you should still think about the content you're putting out on your website. Are you answering the questions that people are asking? Or you just optimizing for the keywords. Optimizing for the keywords won't work. People will ask LLMs questions and if you're already answering them on your content there are more chances that AI results will find you and list your website. Redefining Reporting and KPIs for Agencies One of the biggest challenges agencies face is explaining to clients why organic traffic might be dropping even as visibility increases. Why? Traditional SEO metrics no longer tell the whole story. So how to report back? Basically, you'll need to educate clients and start measuring mentions, citations, and referrals coming from AI platforms. Vishal suggests tracking LLM bot hits in server logs and monitoring whether AI crawlers are visiting key pages. These indicators reveal your brand's visibility in AI-generated results. While raw traffic might decline, the quality of leads and conversions often improves. "You might get fewer leads," he says, "but they'll be more qualified, because AI searchers are deeper in their intent." Leads from AI chats tend to be more serious buyers who have already researched their problems. The shift, then, isn't a loss but rather an opportunity to educate clients on new performance indicators that reflect where users actually search today. Preparing Your Agency and Clients for AI Search When it comes to optimizing for AI, Vishal recommends a hybrid approach: combine solid technical SEO fundamentals with a new layer of AI-readiness. This includes making sure your site is clean, crawlable, and structured properly, while also ensuring your brand has visibility across other platforms. At E2M, Vishal's team runs AI search audits to check how often their clients' brands appear in LLM answers. They even query ChatGPT and Perplexity directly to see what those systems say about them and their competitors. From there, they reverse-engineer visibility by identifying which platforms, podcasts, or publications help brands get cited more often by AI. Mentions on Reddit, Quora, and podcasts count, even if they're not linked, because they help build trust signals that LLMs detect. Agencies, Vishal says, can sell these as AI search audits, AI content audits, or full AI optimization packages — new recurring revenue streams that build on their SEO expertise. The Human Edge in an AI-Driven World Agencies can't afford to be "order takers" who wait for clients to bring up AI. If your clients are asking about AI before you bring it up, you're already behind. Instead, agencies should position themselves as trusted advisors who help clients navigate the shift confidently. So go to your clients and start those conversations, or you WILL be replaced by AI. At the end of the day, people still want connection, which is why both Jason and Vishal agree that AI will never replace the human element and the strategy, empathy, and creativity that come from real human connection. People will always want someone that can help guide them through the new marketing trends. As Vishal puts it, "Business owners don't have time to learn all this. They want someone they trust to handle it." AI might make average easier, but connection, data, and network will always be your edge. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Is innovation truly at the center of your agency operations? Not just what you offer clients, but in how you operate? With AI raising expectations faster than most agencies can adapt, investing in innovation isn't optional anymore. It's how you build client trust, stay ahead of disruption, and keep your edge. Today's featured guest unpacks his journey from leading the award-winning agency T3 to launching Superstep Capital, a private equity firm investing exclusively in agency and technology-service businesses. His insights cut through the noise on innovation, leadership, and how to stay ahead of the next big shift. Ben Gaddis still calls himself agency guy. After more than a decade building T3 into one of the nation's leading digital agencies, serving clients like UPS, 7-Eleven, and JP Morgan Chase he sold the company and launched Superstep Central, a private equity firm investing in agencies and tech service businesses. When he sold T3 to a private-equity group, he didn't ride off into the sunset. Instead, he crossed over to what he calls "the dark side," founding Superstep Capital. Now, he defines his mission as redefining what private equity looks like in the agency world by partnering with founders to scale the right way. In this episode, we'll discuss: Going all-in on the next wave before clients catch up. Why innovation should be treated as an expectation. Lessons on creating a leadership structure. Why differentiation still wins. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Go All-In on the Next Wave Before Clients Catch Up Ben's family has been running T3 since he was born, so it made sense to him that he'd eventually end up in the agency world. Hence, he started his career working at Omnicom, learning from their biggest competitors, and was around when mobile apps became a thing after the launch of the iPhone. At Omnicom Ben saw how traditional holding companies were too slow to invest in mobile. He didn't hesitate to seize the opportunity that mobile presented. Frustrated, he took over T3 and bet big on the emerging mobile market. That bet paid off with marquee wins and explosive growth, scaling the agency to $50 million in revenue and around 300 employees. His advice for agency owners today echoes that same spirit: burn the boats. You can't half-commit to a new capability and expect to lead it. You can't expect clients to lead you there. If you want to own a new channel, whether it's AI, automation, voice, whatever's next, you have to invest ahead of demand and prove value before anyone asks. If you wait for client demand before you invest, it's already too late. Innovation Isn't a Slogan, It's an Expectation At T3, Ben created a culture where innovation wasn't just encouraged; it was an expectation. So they turned innovation into a measurable habit by creating an "Innovation Match" program where they matched a portion of a client's spend dollar-for-dollar on experimental projects. Clients got to share in the risk and the reward. Those projects became T3's biggest success stories and built a reputation for fearless creativity. T3 chose projects and built roadmaps alongside the clients. turning them into true partners in innovation. The coolest work the agency ever did ended up coming from that program. It even led to another venture project called T3 Ventures, where they invested in c-stage startups. It was all about surrounding his team with people who were doing the newest and coolest stuff and letting their clients see this. It worked much better to show innovation than to just talk about it. Innovation has to live in your budget, not your buzzwords. When your team sees that experimentation is backed by leadership, and even matched financially, they'll start bringing the bold ideas that set you apart. This" Innovation Match" model is a playbook for modern agencies trying to make innovation a repeatable, funded process. Leadership Has to Grow as Fast as the Agency Early on, Ben was a young CEO trying to manage instead of lead. He assumed people could read his mind and execute on his vision. That mistake caused turnover and frustration until he hit pause, clarified T3's mission, and re-aligned around a few focused areas: digital products, loyalty, and CRM. From there, he learned to build leadership in layers. Initially, he brought on a COO, which seemed like the next logical move; however, it wasn't the right cultural fit and complicated everything with the team. It wasn't about what his COO changed, it was how they did it… the entire team rejected this dynamic. Eventually, Ben was able to bring in a COO who simplified instead of complicating. It not only freed Ben to think creatively again and gave the agency room to scale, it gave him back his creative headspace. Agency Structure for Scale: Build Practice Leaders, Not Project Managers The other positive change at his agency was creating the "practice groups". Instead of spreading talent thin across random projects, they paired a portfolio lead with a subject-matter expert. Each duo owned a P&L and growth target. The result was deep expertise, repeatable wins, and new verticals that practically built themselves. Their restaurant and convenience-store niche exploded from 2 clients to 30 in record time. This model solves the scaling paradox of how to grow without sacrificing quality. When your experts own both excellence and profit, growth stops feeling chaotic. The last area they focused on was delivery, fighting to maintain quality as they did the newest thing. In the end, it came down to setting expectations and aligning with clients around what they were bringing to the table. As a result, quality went up. AI, Sales, and What's Next for Agency Growth On the investment side, Ben sees a lot of agencies struggling with hesitation and "no-decision" deals. AI has amplified expectations while compressing margins. Many clients now assume everything can be automated, expecting greater output for less cost. Thankfully, this trend has decreased, as clients were burned by this overreliance on AI. On the other hand, it's clear to Ben that agencies should and must be faster and more efficient, and agencies with a clear understanding of what they do and who they serve are not blindsighted by this new reality. His advice: AI isn't differentiation, it's amplification. The edge comes from how you apply it, not the tools themselves. Know your vertical, know your data, and connect AI to real business outcomes. The agencies that win are the ones that define how AI fits their process - not the other way around. Why Differentiation Still Wins in the AI Era The agencies and individuals winning right now aren't the ones with the fanciest tools or the most automation; they're the ones combining experience, curiosity, and creativity to use AI in smarter ways. Ben shares the story of an account manager who built her own workflows using AI to research verticals, anticipate objections, and walk into client meetings armed with strategic ideas that wowed executives. She wasn't a technologist, she was a strategist who understood her clients deeply and used AI as a force multiplier. That's the real edge in this new era. Tools are accessible to everyone, but insight and application are not. As Ben points out, it's your data, your intuition, and your industry expertise that make AI valuable. AI doesn't replace strategy, it rewards it. The agencies that know their data, their clients, and their niche will always have the edge. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Would you say your agency is truly profitable? Take a closer look and assess its structure, systems, and tools through the lens of business maturity. You may find you're still in the chaos stage, in need of structure and vision. Running an agency often starts with passion and talent, but keeping it running smoothly takes systems, leadership, and a strong operational backbone. This operational maturity doesn't happen overnight. As today's featured guest knows well, it's a process of reflection, restructuring, and relentless improvement. Harv Nagra is the Head of Brand Communications at Scoro and host of The Handbook: The Operations Podcast, where he explores how agencies and consultancies build scalable, profitable operations. As someone who has spent his career at the intersection of creativity, consultancy, and operations, he'll discuss the key stages of agency growth, the pitfalls of immature operations, and the leadership mindset required to scale sustainably. In this episode, we'll discuss: Understanding the agency maturity model. Evolving your agency from chaos to clarity. Growing your leadership to create framework. Data and the path to predictability. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Why Most Agency Founders Aren't Natural Operators Harv has been in the agency space for most of his career, working in marketing and design, and, although he currently works as Brand Communicator for Scoro, he keeps his finger on the pulse of the industry via his podcast The Handbook, where he talks to owners about running great agencies and consultancies. After speaking with so many founders, Harv is aware that operations is often the blind spot for first-time agency owners. They were very good at delivering a service and ended up being an "accidental founder". People start agencies because they're great at marketing, design, or development, not because they planned to manage P&Ls or build operational frameworks. As a result, growth often outpaces structure, and operations fall behind. Early on, these agencies prioritize sales and survival, just trying to land enough business to stay afloat. But as Harv emphasizes, there's a point where founders must transition from doing great work to running a great business. Without operational clarity, even the most talented teams end up winging it, leading to burnout, inefficiency, and missed profit. Understanding the Agency Maturity Model One of Harv's biggest turning points came when his COO introduced him to the concept of a business maturity model. It was an eye-opener. He thought the agency was doing fine, until the framework revealed gaps he didn't even know existed. It showed him that agencies, like people, evolve through stages, from chaotic startups to structured, data-driven organizations. The models vary, but there are usually 5 stages: 1. People challenges 2. process challenges 3. Data and metrics 4. Technology and tools 5. Growth strategy The early stage is where chaos reigns. Processes are tribal, training is informal ("just learn from whoever you sit next to"), and there is no consistent way of working. As the business grows, pockets of best practices emerge, but without unified systems or documentation. The most mature agencies reach a level where processes are standardized, data is reliable, and leaders can make decisions based on insights rather than gut feelings. Unfortunately, only a small percentage of agencies ever get there. From Chaos to Clarity: Building Operational Maturity When Harv stepped into an operations role, his agency was stuck between chaos and maturity. Multiple entities were working in silos with inconsistent tools and workflows. Financial reporting was messy, and onboarding was informal. Everything began to change when they hired a finance director who helped formalize budgeting and systemize financial operations. Together, they redefined how projects were quoted, tracked, and managed, bringing consistency and visibility that had been missing for years. It's a common growing pain for agencies that scale faster than their systems. As Jason recalls, before implementing time tracking, he believed all clients were profitable. The data told a different story: 60% of projects were actually losing money. That realization forced him to fix pricing, reposition the agency, and rethink sales and operations from the ground up. The Leadership Shift: From Fighting Fires to Frameworks Many agency owners reach a ceiling because they're still running their business as they did in the early days. As he moved up the ladder, Harv and his team tried to get the agency's leadership team to realize they were spread too thin, with each senior leader juggling multiple internal roles alongside client work. Once leadership saw the problem, the real work began; creating clarity, documenting systems, and assigning accountability. The key here was clarity, so Harv and this finance director documented everything from budgeting to time tracking, to reporting and resourcing. It was a huge leap in maturity and it consolidated when the founders brought an interim COO who audited operations, restructured the organization, and helped senior leaders focus on strategic leadership instead of firefighting. Finally, there was a clear understanding of where the agency is going, who it serves, and how it operates. Without that, leaders end up managing chaos rather than building growth. Data, Tools, and the Path to Predictability As Harv's agency matured, the next challenge was data and technology. Their systems were outdated, and reporting was cumbersome. Upgrading their tech stack allowed them to collaborate across borders, manage multiple entities, and gain visibility into key metrics like capacity and revenue forecasting. This shift toward being data-driven enabled proactive decision-making instead of reactive problem-solving. Alongside technology, restructuring played a key role. The agency had to make tough decisions about team composition, ensuring the right people were in the right seats. As Harv put it, "Just because someone's been there from the beginning doesn't mean they're the right fit for the next phase." It's a difficult but necessary mindset for sustainable growth. Letting Go — The Hardest Step in Agency Maturity For founders,  growth means letting go. Letting go of old habits, outdated systems, and sometimes even long-time team members. Many owners treat their agency like a baby, and it's a mistake. When leaders cling too tightly, they become the bottleneck. True maturity happens when they can trust the team, delegate decisions, and focus on leading rather than managing. As Harv summarized, agencies should think of themselves less like families and more like sports teams where each player has a role, and the lineup changes as the game evolves. The goal isn't comfort, it's performance. That's what separates agencies that evolve from those that plateau. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training How would you go about making acquisitions to accelerate your growth? Would you buy for revenue, culture fit, or client roster? Would you be willing to fire big clients that are holding your agency back? Most agency owners chase growth by saying "yes" to everything, from new services, new clients, and every new opportunity. Today's featured guest built one of the fastest-growing mobile and digital agencies in the world by narrow focusing, firing bad-fit clients, and mastering the art of strategic acquisitions. Today he'll unpack how his agency evolved from a small mobile startup in Tel Aviv to a global digital powerhouse working with brands like Google, Uber, Samsung, and Microsoft. Gilad Bechar is the CEO and founder of Moburst, a mobile-first marketing and digital transformation agency with offices in Tel Aviv, New York, and San Francisco. Since 2013, Moburst has helped startups and Fortune 500s alike scale their reach through creative, data-driven, and tech-forward strategies. Under Gilad's leadership, the agency has raised capital, acquired multiple specialized firms, and built proprietary technology that keeps them ahead of the curve in AI, mobile UX, and cross-platform performance. In this episode, we'll discuss: The similarities between the mobile boom and the new AI era. Raising capital without losing control. Using acquisitions as a growth strategy. The power of saying no and focusing on fit. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. From A Mobile-First Niche Focus to Global Agency Powerhouse When Moburst launched in 2013, the agency world was flooded with "digital experts" who claimed to understand mobile. Most didn't. Gilad noticed that agencies were simply repurposing desktop experiences for smaller screens without real mobile UX thinking, no data-driven optimization, and definitely no understanding of how users behaved differently on apps. That insight became Moburst's edge. Instead of trying to compete as another full-service digital shop, they doubled down on mobile-first marketing. They mastered app store optimization (ASO), performance tracking, and mobile UX design. That focus helped them land early wins with major clients who were desperate for expertise in a fast-changing environment. As Gilad puts it, "When you show big clients that a critical piece of their marketing is being ignored, and you can fix it, that's your entry point." The AI Parallel: Most Agencies Talk, Few Deliver Gilad sees history repeating itself with AI. Just like the early mobile days, everyone's suddenly an "AI expert." But the difference between hype and real expertise shows up fast in a conversation. He believes the proof lies under the hood. Real experts can answer deep implementation questions: which tools integrate best, how to handle data security, and what AI models perform for specific tasks. Pretenders can't. For agencies, this is a reminder that credibility is earned through insight, not jargon. Clients see through the buzzwords. And the ones who don't will eventually learn when the work doesn't deliver. Raising Capital Without Losing Control Unlike most agency founders, Gilad took venture funding, not once, but three times. But he did it differently. Instead of giving away huge equity chunks, Moburst only diluted small percentages (around 6% each round). The investors came to them after seeing how fast their clients were growing. Without that, his agency wouldn't have its current success in the US market and would probably still be a very local agency in Israel. That capital gave him the means to hire a team in New York and then eventually move there to lead that office. It was the start of many new opportunities for the agency, like building internal tech tools that set them apart. It was also the way his team has stayed ahead of the curve from competitors that are not investing in the future and stay too focused on the right here and now. Furthermore, despite having 11 investors, Moburst kept full control. Only one board seat represents all investors, and it can't override the founders' decisions. According to Gilad, that control is what allowed them to make hard but smart moves, like firing clients and cutting costs in 2017 when growth was strong but profitability wasn't. The Hard Reset That Saved the Agency and Restored Profitability In 2017, Moburst was scaling fast but losing money just as quickly. The agency was adding clients and headcount, but without the right systems to manage profitability. At one point, they were bleeding up to $70,000 a month. So Gilad made the tough call: he cut unprofitable clients, reduced staff, and rebuilt the agency around systems that supported healthy margins. "It was brutal," he admits. "We let go of big, well-known clients we loved working with. But it didn't make sense to keep losing money just to say we worked with them." That painful reset worked. By 2018, the agency was profitable again and positioned for sustainable growth. That reset set the stage for their next evolution: acquisitions. How to Use Acquisitions as a Growth Strategy (Not a Gamble) Moburst's acquisition strategy wasn't about buying revenue or chasing vanity growth. It was about buying capabilities that solved their biggest operational gaps. Their first acquisition was a video production studio they had already worked with for over a year. The partnership was strong, the culture aligned, and the collaboration was smooth. So they brought them in-house in 2019 and the agency's offerings instantly expanded. Then they looked at their next biggest outsourced expense: web and app development. So in 2022, they acquired a dev shop after a successful collaboration period. In total, Moburst has made five acquisitions, each one following a simple rule: test first, integrate later. As Gilad says, "We don't buy to solve problems. We buy what already works and multiply it." When asked about whether or not these brands keep their names after acquisition, Gilad says it all depends on their brand authority. If they do great work and have a solid team but their brand isn't as strong, then it's best to just bring it under the Moburst umbrella. In case they do have a strong brand, then they'll just make sure their website reflects they are part of a larger group. How to Structure an Agency Acquisition Deal the Smart Way For agency owners eyeing their own M&A moves, Gilad shared his preferred deal structure. Each acquisition has four key components: Cash upfront - Rewards founders for their hard work. Equity - Gives them a stake in the larger vision. Dividends - Paid yearly so they benefit from the agency's profits. Performance bonuses - Tied to the profitability of their specific business unit. This structure keeps founders motivated and aligned for years to come, without the traditional burnout that comes from rigid earnouts. Everyone wins when growth is sustainable and collaborative. Why Firing Bad Clients Helps Scale Smarter One of the biggest lessons Gilad takes away from journey is the courage to say no: to clients, deals, or directions that don't fit. Agencies often cling to bad accounts out of fear of losing revenue, but simply put, that's a silent killer. If you're not profitable on a client, you're not just breaking even; you're paying for the privilege of overworking your team. Moburst's growth didn't come from doing more — it came from doing what mattered most. By focusing, pruning, and strategically acquiring, Gilad turned a niche mobile startup into a global digital powerhouse. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training How are the new technologies and tools shaping the future of agencies? How can you create an agency that outlasts trends? When you've been around for 75 years in the ad world, you've seen it all, from Mad Men, media buying by fax, the rise of the internet, and now, AI. Today's featured guest runs an agency that has been doing full-service marketing since 1950. What's impressive isn't just their longevity but also how they've stayed relevant and human in a business that changes faster than a TikTok trend. Jennifer Spire is the CEO of Preston Spire, an independent Minneapolis-based creative agency that's been helping brands grow with full-service marketing since 1950. She's the agency's fourth CEO, starting in small independent agencies, rising through global holding companies, and bringing both worlds' lessons to how she leads today. That mix of experiences shaped her leadership style grounded in independence, driven by creativity, and fiercely protective of agency culture. In this episode, we'll discuss: Building a culture that lasts seven decades and beyond. Why independence still matters in the agency world. The future of agency talent and AI. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. How One Agency Has Stayed Relevant for 75 Years Preston Spire started as a design shop in 1950 and quickly grew to a full service advertising agency, which differs from what we think of as full service today. Over the decades, it's evolved continuously, reinventing itself with every shift in marketing. Jennifer says the real secret to their longevity is adaptability. "It's really hard to continue to evolve and stay strong, but I think there's a lot to be said for an agency that can evolve and still grow while being relevant." Now they're 25 years away from a century, which is both impressive and humbling, as well as something they want to highlight more. Surprisingly, some advisors have actually told Jennifer it'd be best to not mention their 75-year run, since some might assume a 75-year-old agency should be bigger by now. However, Jennifer has a different perspective. For her, you don't have to be one of the biggest agencies to be better and longevity isn't a weakness but rather proof of resilience and reinvention. From Big Agency Bureaucracy to Small Agency Freedom Before joining Press Inspire, Jennifer spent years inside the machine of large agencies, where shareholder-driven decisions often overshadowed what's best for clients or teams. There, she learned that you don't have to be bigger to be better, a philosophy that now fuels how she runs Press Inspire, as she has chosen to keep it small enough to stay personal but strong enough to compete with anyone. Once she left the big-agency world for an independent shop, Jennifer cut her teeth doing everything from answering phones, assisting on shoots, starting media departments, and running PR. That early experience taught her the one skill every agency leader needs — resourcefulness — something she now encourages young people to develop early in their careers. Her time at big agencies, though, showed her what not to do. "You end up making decisions that are best for shareholders, not clients," she said. "At a smaller agency, I wanted everyone to be able to chart their own path and make decisions that serve both the client and the team." Building an Agency Culture Keeps People for Deacades People stay for decades at Preston, some for 37 years, others 30, and three just recently celebrated 25-year anniversaries. That kind of loyalty is nearly unheard of in today's agency churn cycle. So what's the secret? Balance. Jennifer encourages collaboration between long-time employees and newer hires with fresh perspectives. The agency operates in a hybrid setup, with three days in-office to keep creativity flowing while maintaining flexibility. It's a rhythm that keeps collaboration alive without burning people out. "Being together helps," she said. "That human connection is something you can't replicate over Zoom." Their internal compass is guided by what they call COOP values: Courage, Originality, Openness, and Positivity. The team is encouraged to take risks, fail fast, learn, and keep moving forward. Leading with Clarity: Building Alignment and Growth Paths Jennifer may be CEO, but being at a smaller agency she's not above the grind. She manages operations, oversees HR and finance, and still maintains direct relationships with every major client. That visibility matters because, as she explains, clients need to know leadership is invested in their business. Her team structure also breaks down roles by what percentage of their time is spent leading, managing, or making. This clarity helps people grow without being shoved into management if it's not something they want for their careers. This way, they get to build their unique path within the agency, a key to keeping them happy with their work. Quarterly goals, regular feedback, and individualized growth paths keep everyone aligned and fulfilled — a framework that scales culture without micromanagement. Furthermore, constant feedback, quarterly goals, and individualized growth paths help keep everyone aligned and fulfilled. Why Staying Independent Still Wins for Some Agencies Does a 75-year-old independent agency get offers from the big holding companies? They do, actually; all the time. Jennifer says M&A emails land in her inbox daily. But she's not interested. "We've had serious talks with other agencies," she said, "but we've said no every time. Staying independent is critical to our success." If they sold, they'd probably start making decisions for investors instead of their people and be back in the big agency world she escaped. For Jennifer, independence isn't just about control, it's about protecting the culture that makes their agency different. The freedom to put clients and people first is what keeps the agency thriving. Preparing for the Future: AI's Impact on Agency Talent Jennifer's not blind to the future. She's already planning staffing and financial strategy through 2030, a move that would make most agencies sweat. One question she's wrestling with: how AI will change entry-level roles and career paths. "AI has been an incredible tool and has allowed us to be more efficient," she said. "But if it takes away too much of the junior work, where do mid-level people come from five years from now?" The truth is that the jobs won't vanish, they'll evolve. Junior people using AI can perform at mid-level. Mid-level people can perform like senior leaders. You'll just need fewer of them. Still, Jennifer sees it as a call to action for colleagues and agency leaders alike: train people not just in the AI tools, but in critical thinking, problem solving, creativity, and the human side of marketing. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Ever wonder how much your agency's growth is limited by staying too broad? Or what could happen if you picked one niche and went all in? Today's featured guest didn't set out to run a food service marketing agency; He followed the opportunities, learned from a few hard lessons selling door-to-door, and eventually discoverd the power of focus. He'll share how niching down, rebranding, and embracing flexibility helped him grow his agency into a specialized agency serving some of the biggest names in food service and the ways in which he and his team refined the agency's positioning. Tyler Smith is the president and owner of Matato, a brand strategy and creative marketing agency focused on food and beverage brands in the food service and “away from home” space. His agency helps those brands reach restaurant operators, chefs, and food service directors with smarter, more intentional marketing. In this episode, we'll discuss: The power of positioning. The difference choosing a niche made for his agency. Flexible selling and empathy in action. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. How Selling Vacuums Led to a Food Service Marketing Agency Tyler laughs about it now, but his first “sales training” involved knocking on doors and demoing carpet cleaners that cost more than most people's first cars. While studying advertising, Tyler was sure he wanted to be a graphic designer or copywriter, and while that door-to-door sales job started as a way earn extra beer money, it ended up being a crash course in marketing psychology. He learned how to capture attention, demonstrate value, and handle rejection — all skills that would later serve him as an agency owner. After college, the 2009 recession hit, and finding a creative job in advertising wasn't easy. So when an agency owner offered him a commission-only sales role, he jumped in. Within a few months, Tyler was closing enough deals to get brought on full-time. Fast forward a decade, and he's now the sole owner of that same agency, rebranded as Matato, now leading a team of specialists helping food brands grow smarter. The Smart Positioning and Rebranding Transformed the Agency When Tyler took full ownership, he knew the agency needed an identity that reflected its niche and direction. The old name didn't quite fit anymore. So he created Matato, a playful twist on “tomato, tomato, potato, potato.” It was something memorable, food-related, and (importantly) trademarkable with a clean domain to match. More than a name change, that rebrand was a signal that the agency was doubling down on food service marketing as their core focus. This was a big move for Tyler as he stepped up as the face of the agency. If you can't own your brand, both emotionally and digitally, you can't expect your clients to trust that you'll own theirs. From Generalist to Specialist: Why Niching Down Drives Growth For years, Matato worked with all kinds of B2B and B2C clients. But as they grew, Tyler noticed the most rewarding and most profitable projects were always in food service. So they made the call to go narrow to grow big. That meant focusing on the brands serving restaurants, distributors, and institutions. Tyler's team helps these brands move from a sales-heavy approach to a true marketing strategy, teaching them how to speak to chefs and operators, not just consumers. Now, their content strategy includes things like their annual Food Service Marketing Playbook, a killer lead magnet that doesn't just promote Matato's expertise , it teaches. Some brands use it to DIY their marketing, others see the value and hire the agency. Either way, Tyler's team wins. What Got You Here Won't Get You There Tyler's secret to getting new business in the early days was just “all grind, no strategy.” Cold calls, trade shows, follow-ups; just pure hustle. But as the agency matured, that changed. They stopped trying to “do everything” and started refining how they show up. After repositioning more firmly in the food industry, their new game plan is rooted in generosity and authority, giving away insights, teaching the industry, and positioning themselves as the go-to experts for food service brands. Their annual Food Marketing Playbook has gotten them great results, and he has also been dabbling in podcasting, an effort that he admits still lacks consistency. All these changes to the brand and how they approach their audience have been a great way to reinvigorate the business and demonstrates his team understands that you can't just tell people to hire you; you've got to show them why. Empathy and Flexibility: The Secret to Long-Term Client Relationships One of Tyler's biggest lessons when it comes to sales is to stay flexible and empathetic. Instead of rigid packages or pushy closes, he focuses on what the client actually needs and finds ways to make it work. That adaptability has helped him build long-term trust (and some very loyal accounts). Sure, early on it led to a few over-committed budgets and sleepless nights, but over time it became one of Matato's superpowers. Tyler calls it “on-the-fly problem solving”, a willingness to adjust, improvise, and make the deal work without losing sight of the big picture. Why Every Specialized Agency Should Start a Podcast Tyler's got deep expertise and connections in his niche. He has noticed podcasting could be the fastest way to build authority and create a content engine without relying on written blogs that no one's reading anymore. It's not just about attention; it's about access. When you interview potential clients and peers in your industry, you're building relationships that open doors. As Jason put it, “It's the number one thing I ever did for my business.” How Curiousity Keeps Your Agency Evolving Looking back, Tyler can see that curiosity helped Matato survive and evolve, especially during the pandemic. When food service came to a standstill, his team didn't sit idle. They experimented, collaborated with chefs and influencers, and tested new lead-gen angles. Things are constantly changing and what got you to this point won't get you there. So his message to agency owners is to stay curious and willing to try many things. Otherwise, you'll be doomed to fail.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Ever looked at your agency's bank account and thought, “We're crushing it!” only to realize two months later that half that cash wasn't really yours yet? Or maybe you've hit that milestone where you start wondering what your agency might be worth if you sold it tomorrow… but your books are a confusing mix of guesswork and gut feelings. Today's featured guest was a finance expert before falling in love with the agency world and has the experience to show how smart financial planning (not just getting more clients) can completely reshape your agency's future. From forecasting and cash flow to the hard truths about selling, this conversation is packed with real-world lessons every agency owner needs to hear. Lacie Edgeman is the partner and co-owner of PrograMetrix, a digital paid media agency that focuses exclusively on programmatic advertising. With a background in finance, she oversees operations and financial strategy. However, like most small-agency leaders, she's worn just about every hat at some point. Her unique blend of financial discipline and operational savvy has helped her agency grow smart, not just fast. In this episode, we'll discuss: The superpower too many agencies ignore. Cash vs. accrual accounting. Why you should always be tracking these two KPIs. How much cash should you keep in the bank? Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. How a Finance Major Became an Agency Owner After earning a finance degree, Lacie joined a digital agency in Austin as a billing coordinator and quickly discovered she loved the chaos. “You either love it or you hate it,” she says. “I love the fast pace environment and the fact that it challenges me.” That early exposure to how agencies really work, from billing quirks to client chaos, gave her a perspective most creatives never get. By the time she joined PrograMetrix, she wasn't just another partner with ideas; she was the numbers-minded operator who could make sure every big creative idea actually paid off. Forecasting: The Superpower Too Many Agencies Ignore From a finance perspective, Lacie's biggest message for agency owners is to stop running their business off their checking account. “Future planning is where most agencies miss the mark,” she says. It's important to review your historical, of course, but Lacie recommends creating a forecast and revisit it quarterly. This way, if you want to add $1 million in take-home revenue, you can map out exactly which KPIs need to move to make that happen.. This is way, if you, for instance, want to add $1 million in take-home revenue, you can map exactly which KPIs need to move to make that happen. That forward focus creates smarter, calmer decisions; especially when things get uncertain. You can't sleep easy until you know what's coming in, what's going out, and how your pipeline will affect cash flow six months from now. Cash vs. Accrual Accounting: How to Stop Fooling Yourself About Profit When Lacie joined PrograMetrix in 2019, one of her first moves was switching from cash accounting to accrual accounting, a game changer for any media agency. Why? Because when you're handling large media budgets, those big lump payments from clients don't actually mean profit. Accrual accounting forces you to recognize revenue when the work is done, not when the check clears. “It's the only way to see what's actually happening,” Lacie explains. Otherwise, agencies can get fooled into thinking they're thriving when all they've done is temporarily hold pass-through media dollars. For anyone running paid media, she considers accrual accounting “painful but essential.” Furthermore, accrual accounting becomes critical when you're planning to sell your agency. It's not just about cleaner books, it's about protecting your valuation. In cash accounting, all incoming payments hit your revenue the moment they land, even if you haven't delivered the work yet. That can make your agency look healthier than it really is. However, a smart buyer will spot it—and they'll adjust your purchase price down to reflect any undelivered work. If you're serious about eventually selling, move to accrual accounting early so your books reflect true earned revenue. It not only helps you understand your real profitability but also builds trust with future buyers. Building the Right Financial Advisory Team for Your Agency Anyone with prior experience selling a business will probably tell you “if you're planning on selling soon, don't rely solely on a broker”. Brokers are financially motivated to close the deal fast, not to get the best terms. Instead, surround yourself with people who don't have skin in the game. Considering that most agency owners probably come from a creative background, Lacie suggests finding financial mentors or advisers who will tell them what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. You don't have to become a QuickBooks expert, but you do need to understand what your financials are saying about the health of your business. 2 KPIs Every Agency Owner Should Track If Lacie were stranded on an island and could only get one napkin of financials, it'd include two numbers: Topline Revenue (excluding media spend) EBITDA (basically your take-home before taxes) EBITDA is very important here, because you can have great revenue but without free flowing funds to invest back in the business, you'll still be a red flag for potential buyers. Those two tell her almost everything about an agency's financial health. “You can only cut costs so far,” she says. “At some point, you have to grow the top line strategically.” The real game is in balancing both, keeping a clean cost structure while expanding profitable revenue. Owners should also understand adjusted EBITDA, which adjusts for one-off expenses, to get a clearer view of your operational performance. It's something a potential buyer would do any way to get a more accurate picture of your agency's financial health. How Much Cash Should You Keep in Reserve? Ask ten agency owners this question, and you'll get ten answers. Lacie says three months of operating cash is the industry rule of thumb, though she's heard advisers tell sellers to shrink that down to one month before an acquisition. Many would disagree with that advice, but ultimately the right number depends on your risk tolerance and client concentration. If a single client dominates your revenue, then the most important advice would be to secure a line of credit before you need it. Losing a “gorilla client” (one worth more than 20% of your revenue) can wreck cash flow overnight. A credit line buys you breathing room so you don't start saying yes to bad clients just to make payroll. Niching Down Is the Key to Profitability and Valuation For Lacie, niching down was the single best move for PrograMetrix. “When you try to be everything to everyone, you can't scale,” she says. Every one-off client that doesn't fit your core offer quietly drains profit and focus. She urges agency owners to ask themselves if they're offering the right services and double down on what they're great at, not just good at. The rule is simple: the more focused you are, the more you can charge. Start by raising prices for new clients and soon the gap between legacy clients and new ones will convince you of the need to raise prices for legacy clients too. One mastermind member added $72,000 in monthly recurring revenue simply by repricing existing clients after niching. Each year, Lacie's team audits their client roster to identify accounts they've outgrown. It's never easy—many are long-time relationships—but letting go of clients who no longer fit is what creates room for bigger, better ones. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training What would happen if one client lawsuit, one hacked account, or one missed renewal completely wiped out your agency? Have you ever stopped to think about how exposed your business really is even if you're “doing everything right”? Today's featured guest started his career working in the insurance industry and eventually found a love for marketing. He talks about the side of agency life most people ignore: protecting what you've built, and breaks down how to safeguard your business with the right insurance, why every agency should have cyber liability coverage, and how a “give first” mindset has helped him land major clients like Daymond John, Chris Voss, and Dr. Benjamin Hardy. Draye Redfern is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of Redfern Media and FractionalCMO. Over the past decade, he's built and sold multiple companies, including a $40M insurance agency acquired by one of Warren Buffett's Berkshire Hathaway subsidiaries. With 15 years in risk management and a passion for modern marketing, Draye now helps businesses scale smarter while protecting their downside. In this episode, we'll discuss: How “Growth Blindness” Can Hurt Your Business. The Hidden Risk Most Agencies Ignore. Why You Probably Need a Cyber Liability Insurance. How to Get Big Clients by being in the Right Rooms. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. The Unlikely Path From Insurance to Marketing Draye grew up in a household where entrepreneurship was a way of life. His dad owned a business, and by age 12, Draye was doing the grunt work: filing papers, scanning documents, and learning what it really meant to keep a company running. He had a front-row seat to the chaos and grit of small business. Over time, Draye realized he had a knack for marketing. His early ideas sometimes outperformed everyone else's, and by his early 20s, he was leading the marketing division of a $28 million firm. Under his direction, they scaled past $40 million in annual revenue. That success led to the company's eventual sale to none other than one of the Berkshire Hathaway companies. Stop Being Growth Blind and Start Protecting the Downside While most marketers are obsessed with lead flow and growth, Draye brings a completely different mindset to the table: protect the downside first. After spending 15 years insurance and the risk management world, he learned that too many businesses are “growth blind.” They're chasing top-line numbers while leaving themselves totally exposed if something goes wrong. For his part, Draye thinks about how to mitigate downside risks first and then, once he has that locked down, then he starts thinking about growth. Admittedly, it's backwards from how most people do it, but it's what makes the most sense to him.  The Hidden Risk Most Agencies Ignore Why does Draye prioritize mitigating downside growth? Most agencies don't think about errors and omissions (E&O) insurance until it's too late. One poorly worded ad, a leaked password, or a miscommunication with a client could lead to a lawsuit that costs hundreds of thousands—if not millions—in legal fees. That's why he recommends a basic “risk protection stack” for agency owners: General Liability – Covers physical damages or slip-and-fall type issues. Employment Practices (EPLI) – Protects against HR-related claims. Errors & Omissions (E&O) – Covers mistakes or oversights in your work. Cyber Liability – Protects against data breaches and hacks. As Draye puts it, marketing agencies hold the keys to dozens of client kingdoms. If you get hacked, they get hacked. Protect yourself first, then scale. Why Every Agency Owner Needs Cyber Liability (and What Happens If You Don't) Most agency owners assume general liability insurance has them covered. Slip-and-fall in the office? Sure. But what about when a client's site gets hacked because one of your team members reused a password? Or when a campaign you ran unintentionally exposes customer data? That's not covered: this is where cyber liability and errors & omissions (E&O) insurance come in. Here's where most people go wrong: they forget to renew. Unlike car or home insurance, E&O and cyber liability policies are “claims-made” policies. That means you're only covered if the policy is active when the claim is filed, not when the incident happened. So if you let your policy lapse, even for a few weeks, you could lose coverage for everything that happened in previous years. That's why many experienced owners “tail out” their policies when they sell or sunset a business. Tail coverage locks in past protection for a set number of years. It costs more upfront but prevents millions in potential exposure later. Keep your coverage active, review it annually, and don't cut corners to save a few hundred bucks. Think of it as part of your agency's operating system, not an optional add-on. Lessons From Selling to Berkshire Hathaway When Berkshire Hathaway came calling, he learned just how deep corporate due diligence can go. “They fly out all their MBAs and basically give your business a financial colonoscopy,” he joked. But that process forced him to see business from a different lens—as an asset, not a job. He walked away with not just a successful exit, but also a new appreciation for how structure, systems, and compliance create enterprise value. How to Get Big Clients: Ask Questions, Be in the Room, and Give First Draye's agency has publicly traded companies in its current client roster, with some notable names including Dr Benjamin Hardy and Chris Voss, and almost all of those brands came to his agency because Draye was in the right rooms to strike up conversation. As he puts it, successful people like to hang around other successful people. To him, his job in the agency at this point is figuring out how to get invited into the room with the right people, which includes joining masterminds and attending events. Even with big clients, Draye recommends offering value first without expecting anything in return. I'll give them an idea of the work you do and, if they like it, they'll have you in mind the next time they need agency services. For instance, after attending a talk by Dr. Benjamin Hardy, Draye had the chance to chat with him and learned he was pulling in over 30,000 email opt-ins a month but wasn't monetizing them. Instead of pitching a retainer, Draye built him a simple funnel — for free — that started generating $10,000 a month in passive revenue. A few months later, Hardy came back and asked, “What else can you do?” That turned into a long-term partnership and a roster of launches that ran for years. How to Stand Out and Make People Feel Seen Draye's other secret weapon is personalization. Not the lazy kind where someone drops your name into a cold email template. Real personalization. When a prospect says they're interested, his team clones a landing page, updates the name in the headline (“Welcome, John!”), and records a 30-second video personally greeting them. The whole process takes fifteen minutes, but it makes people feel like they matter, and that's the part most agencies forget. That simple touch has led to multiple referrals, long-term clients, and lasting loyalty. As Draye puts it, “People don't want to feel like a number. They want to feel like they matter.” This type of simple gesture is usually something clients talk about non-stop, because the more automated the world gets, the more human connection stands out. Old School Is the New Advantage While everyone else is obsessing over AI and inbox deliverability, Draye see a lot of potential on a forgotten channel: direct mail. “People's inboxes are full, but their mailboxes are empty,” he explained. “So, when something real shows up, it stands out.” He's seen massive ROI from direct mail, especially when paired with personalized URLs (PURLs) and custom video. It's more expensive upfront, sure, but it cuts through the noise. Something to keep in mind for agency owners trying to stand out at a time when your client's emails are probably inundated with the same offers everyone is sending out. From his own experience, he says “if I were to look at our client base across the various businesses, the vast majority came from direct mail.” Protect Your Business and Hang Out in Different Rooms Draye shares two pieces of advice for agency owners: You never know what's around the corner, so protect your business. Spend the couple thousand bucks on proper coverage. Don't risk your agency's future over something preventable. Change your rooms. If you only hang out with other marketers, you're limiting your reach. Take Jay Abraham's advice and go fishing in someone else's swimming hole. Attend events for other industries, add value, and you'll be amazed at who you meet. In short, Draye's philosophy blends practical protection with proactive growth. Be bold enough to give first, smart enough to protect what you've built, and intentional enough to show up where the right people are. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Ever wonder why some brand podcasts blow up while others die after five episodes? Or why a few companies seem to build die-hard fans while other can't seem to connect? Today's guest specializes in helping brands create podcasts that deliver true value. He explains how brands can use podcasting to build real connection, not just rack up downloads. From breaking up with the traditional ad world to creating top-ranked shows for global brands, he reveals why consistency, authenticity, and a bit of weirdness might be your secret weapons. Roger Nairn is the Co-Founder and CEO of JAR Podcast Solutions, a brand podcast agency based in Vancouver, BC. With a 25-person team, Roger helps brands like Amazon and Sage create shows that connect deeply with their audiences. After spending over two decades in the advertising world at top agencies like DDB and Cossette, he's now on a mission to show companies that the real ROI of podcasting isn't downloads, it's attention and connection. In this episode, we'll discuss: What brands really want in a podcast. Why consistency beats quick wins. Audiences prefer audio podcasts over video ones. Why is that? Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. From Ad Exec to Agency Founder Before podcasting, Roger spent more than 22 years in the traditional advertising world and loved the culture, but he noticed the industry shifting. Programmatic ads were taking over, budgets were shrinking, and the whole game was turning into a race to the bottom. Around the same time, Roger started podcasting as a hobby, mainly as an excuse to talk to people he admired like Seth Godin and Stefan Sagmeister. When he eventually connected with his co-founders, they realized there was a wide-open opportunity for brands to use podcasts in a smarter way. JAR Podcast Solutions was born. The idea wasn't just to launch shows, but to help brands understand their audiences and create the kind of binge-worthy audio content that builds trust over time. What Brands Really Want in a Podcast One of Roger's first steps was sending out message to ten different businesses on LinkedIn. The second response he received referred him to the head of marketing of Sage, a brand whose audience wanted to explore wellness beyond traditional medicine. A few days later they sat down to discuss what a podcast could look like for that brand and ended up creating Well Now, a show about taking control of your health through alternative approaches and powerful personal stories. The show took off, so much so that it briefly outranked Oprah in Apple's health and wellness category. The key wasn't just producing episodes, it was research. Roger's team uncovered what Sage's audience really wanted and built the podcast around those needs. This is true for every brand wanting to launch a podcast: stop creating content for yourself, and start with what your audience actually cares about. Consistency Beats Quick Wins Contrary to what many think, podcasting is not an overnight growth hack. Too many brands think they'll see results instantly. The reality is building an audience takes time. The good news is that, according to Roger, the podcast industry remains incredibly friendly and willing to collaborate, which is a great way reach new audiences. Other important steps to grow include pitching your show to big platforms like Apple Podcasts and getting them to feature it, as well as the actual merchandizing of the show. All of this, however, will amount to nothing without the most important element: consistency. If you want to stay consistent, do not compare yourself with the big players out there. This is the biggest enemy of consistency and will only lead to frustration. Don't expect to be the next Joe Rogan in year one or you'll end up disappointed and unmotivated to keep posting. Instead of focusing on vanity metrics like downloads, Roger recommends focusing on consumption. Without a doubt, creating a podcast might be the single most important things you can do to build your brand. If your listeners are spending two hours a month with the brand, that's two hours of intimate attention—something no other marketing channel can match. Why Audio Wins Over Video While many companies want both video and audio, audio tends to outperform. According to Roger, this happens because listening to a podcast is intimate. It's you in someone's ear while they drive, work out, or walk the dog. It's “me time,” not multitasking. Compare that to video, where distractions are constant and attention spans are short. Unless you're a celebrity like the Kelce brothers or Joe Rogan, most people aren't going to watch two talking heads for hours. They'll sample a short video clip, but they'll actually consume the full conversation in audio. The portability of podcasts makes them an executive's favorite medium, because you can take them anywhere, from the car to the gym to the airport lounge. In fact, new research shows that people will switch how they're watching throughout the day. They may start watching it on their TV and later switch to audio while they're at the gym. The Real Secret: Authenticity Over Perfection Beyond consistency, Roger emphasized that the best podcasts bring personality and vulnerability to the table. Listeners don't want a polished corporate message. They want the real you with flaws, mistakes, and all. Listeners often recall personal details Jason's mentioned on the show, like anecdotes about Aspen. That intimacy is what makes podcasts such a powerful trust-building tool. The trick is to stop trying to sound like someone else. Early on, stop trying to be the next Gary Vee and see how much better authenticity works with the audience. As long as you're being yourself and keep consistent with posting, you can become that reliable friend that is now part of their routine and consistently delivers value to them. Once they're loyal listeners who trust you, joining your community - or even buying from you - becomes a natural next step. The Weird Side of Podcasting Of course, every podcaster has their weird stories. For his part, Roger recalled recording with a guest who had to set up shop in a hotel closet, surrounded by pillows and blankets, just to dampen the echo. Not glamorous, but it worked. Jason has also recorded a podcast at a hotel room, when right after a speaking event he was approached by two attendees who said they inspired him to start their own podcast and would go buy the equipment right that moment and wanted him to be their first guest. They saw the opportunity and took it. This is the reality of podcasting: it's not about perfection, it's about connection. If you're waiting for the perfect studio setup or production conditions, you'll never start. Get scrappy, launch, and let the consistency carry you forward. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training What do you do when your career takes an unexpected left turn? And how do you know when it's time to stop hustling like a freelancer and start leading like a CEO? Today's featured guest found herself in that situation and made the bold choice to go from career misstep to becoming an agency owner. She'll dive into what it really takes to go from a one-woman shop with dial-up internet to leading a team with vision, systems, and staying power. From handwritten letters with a 15% close rate to breaking free from client dependency and leveraging AI without losing the human touch, she shares the hard-earned lessons every agency owner needs to hear. Kriston Sellier is the President and Founder of Id8, a specialized branding agency based in Atlanta. With more than 25 years in the business, she's built a reputation for helping food, beverage, and manufacturing brands stand out and thrive. Kriston is passionate about research-driven branding, cultivating strong communities, and proving that the human side of leadership is just as critical as the strategy. In this episode, we'll discuss:                                    Starting over after being fired. Outgrowing freelance mode. What do agency owners need to grow? Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Thriving in the Agency World After Being Fired Kriston didn't step into agency ownership with a clean, corporate plan. She was fired. After leaving IBM to co-found an agency, she found herself pushed out after a handshake deal gone wrong. At 20-something, she was suddenly unemployed and staring down two options: get another job or finally chase her dream of starting her own shop. It wasn't easy, but that leap turned out to be the right one. Starting out with no clients, she set a modest goal of making $35,000 in her first year. Instead, she closed out her first nine months with $90,000. That was the moment she knew she wasn't just freelancing; she was building something real. From Cold Calls to Handwritten Letters: Building the First Client Base Kriston started with just a basement office and dial-up internet. Since this was the 90s, if her husband picked up the phone line upstairs it would disconnect the whole system. She started out making cold calls to every food and beverage brand in the Yellow Pages. Additionally, she also sent handwritten letters pitching her services, yielding an impressive 15% close rate. In today's digital-first world, that kind of return sounds impossible, but back then it got her first wave of clients. It's a reminder that persistence and a personal touch can cut through the noise, even if the tools have changed. Outgrowing Freelance Mode and Thinking Like a CEO Like many agency owners, Kriston spent the early years acting more like a freelancer than a CEO. That all changed in 2006 when one client made up 75% of her business. The sleepless nights and anxiety from being handcuffed to a single account forced her to rethink everything. A colleague recommended working with a business consultant, so Kriston hired one and for four years, she worked with a full-time consultant who helped her transition from operator to CEO. That shift meant putting systems in place, committing to sales, and most importantly, diversifying her client base. Within the first year of working with her consultant, she added 25 new clients and broke free from the one-client trap. What Agency CEOs Need to Grow? Kriston strongly believes that CEOs should surround themselves with subject matter experts. Every agency owner needs a good advisory board that tells them the truths they doesn't necessarily want to hear, which is why she recommends relying on financial, HR, and sales consultants that can help you look at things from a different perspective. Regarding her role as CEO, Kriston definitely sees herself as more of a coach than a manager. For her, leadership is about helping team members uncover the real issues behind their challenges and guiding them to their own solutions. Likewise, the best team members are those who show they're coachable and open to feedback. She doesn't see failure as the end of the road but as a symptom of something deeper. Her job is to help her team ask the right questions, recognize the root cause, and take ownership of the fix. That shift from micromanaging tasks to coaching outcomes not only freed her up as a leader but also empowered her team to make better decisions without her constant oversight. AI, Research, and the Future of Agencies Running a research-based agency, Kriston is a big fan of Perplexity, a research-focused AI she uses 20–40 times a day for everything from writing stronger emails to analyzing massive datasets. But she's quick to point out that AI isn't a replacement for agencies—it's an enhancer. Where some fear AI will eliminate agency work, Kriston agrees that companies will still want experts to navigate the complexity and not DIY everything themselves. Clients may use AI for certain tasks, but they'll still rely on agencies for strategy, creativity, and execution.. AI + human expertise is the winning formula. And with large organizations outsourcing more marketing again, Kriston believes the future is bright for agencies that bring innovation, research, and personal connection to the table. Cooperation Over Competition Kriston wants agency owners to stop treating each other like competitors and start seeing each other as collaborators. She believes the industry's future depends on agency owners being open, honest, and willing to share both wins and lessons learned. Most agency owners see every other shop as a threat when they're starting out, fearful of competition instead of open to collaboration. At some point, however, through masterminds and peer groups, they come to realize the real growth comes when owners start to build community and create strategic partnerships. For Kriston, it all comes back to community, the same mission she set when she started ID8 decades ago. Build the community, and the business will follow. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you really implementing AI in your agency the right way? Adding a random tool just to say you “use AI” isn't the game changer many agency owners hope it will be. In fact, chasing shiny AI solutions can waste time, drain resources, and create tools your team never actually uses. Many agency leaders, especially those aiming to build a sellable business, assume any form of AI integration will automatically boost their agency's value. But today's featured guest strongly disagrees. He's seen firsthand how agencies fall into the trap of building solutions first and searching for problems later, a costly mistake that does more harm than good. Instead, he's here to share how to approach AI adoption strategically, in ways that actually stick and drive real results. Ken McLoud is the CEO of Laconic Technologies, a business that aims to help agencies figure out how to make AI actually useful. His specialty is finding high-leverage spots in your agency where AI can unlock growth without bloating your headcount. Ken helps owners avoid wasted tools and instead roll out AI that gives their teams real superpowers. In this episode we'll discuss: How agency owners are forcing AI integration the wrong way. When to use custom code. A case study of real world wins and misses. The future of AI in agencies. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Stop Forcing AI Where It Doesn't Belong Ken specializes in helping agency owners start to think strategically about AI. One of the first things he warns about is the “solution in search of a problem” trap. Too many agency owners decide, “We need to be using AI somewhere,” and then jam it into the wrong part of the business. That usually leads to tools that sound cool but don't move the needle, or worse, meet resistance from the very team that's supposed to use them. Instead, Ken suggests starting with the business itself. Are you demand-constrained (needing more leads) or supply-constrained (too much work, not enough capacity)? His litmus test is simple: if a fairy godmother doubled your clients overnight, would you cheer or panic? That answer tells you where the bottleneck really is, and that's the exact spot where AI should be applied. Case Study: Smarter Finance Insights with AskQuick.ai Ken worked to build AskQuick.ai with Nate Jenson, a fractional CFO who worked with tons of agencies. Nate had deep financial expertise but needed a way to scale his brain. Together, they built AskQuick.ai, a chatbot trained on Nate's own textbook of agency finance. The result was a tool that taps into a client's QuickBooks data to deliver specific insights, like spotting which clients are actually losing money. After a rebrand, he is now marketing the product as a simple, agency-friendly tool rather than a complex back-end. No-Code Tools vs. Custom Code: Where's the Breaking Point? Every agency owner has been tempted by tools like N8N, Zapier, or Make.com. According to Ken, these tools are perfect for simple workflows and stuff you could explain in one or two sentences. These tools are often pitched as something anyone with a computer and no experience ca n use, but once your automation starts piling up with dozens of nodes, things break constantly, and you spend more time fixing than benefiting. That's when it's smarter to build custom code. Ken compares it to driving stick shift: more control, less frustration, and often a way faster solution. AI As a Superpower Not a Replacement For Ken, the real promise of AI isn't replacing people, but rather upgrading them. He calls it “giving your team superpowers.” By offloading the repetitive, low-value work to AI, you free up your people to focus on strategy, creativity, and client impact. Instead of fearing AI, most teams welcome it. Nobody loves repetitive tasks, and when you use AI to clear that away, your staff gets to spend more time on what actually lights them up. Real-World Wins (and Misses) If you're wondering how some agencies are using AI right, Ken has seen quite a few examples. For instance, an Australian medical agency built a custom chatbot trained on years of proprietary medical content. The tool now helps their writers quickly draft accurate, technical marketing content; something that would have taken hours of research before. Huge win. On the other hand, this agency built a classic example of a solution in search of a problem. Basically, the owner wanted an elaborate folder system to organize AI chats. It sounded clever, but the writers never actually needed it. Why? Because new AI queries were faster than digging through folders. A perfect example of chasing a solution before identifying a real problem. The Future of AI in Agencies in Plain English Looking ahead, Ken sees AI becoming a tool to replace code and processes. Many things we used to hardwire with messy “if-this-then-that” logic can now be handled with prompts. That means non-technical agency owners can adjust systems in plain English instead of hiring a developer every time they need a change. These tools can make all the difference for agencies that get hundreds of deals come through every day and need a quick way to sort through the ones that can be most profitable from those that likely won't. In these cases speed is everything and AI can deliver in a way that human response cannot. However, Ken is also clear that not every problem should be handed to AI. High-value, low-risk areas, like grading prospects or filtering opportunities, are perfect testing grounds. Mission-critical, high-risk functions will probably still need human oversight for a while. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agencies don't make it 25 years but Bill Swanston's has. From surviving 9/11 to leading a 30-person team through COVID, Bill shares how Bosun (formerly Frederick Swanston) adapted, learned to love KPIs, empowered their team, and even pulled off a successful rebrand. His story proves you can survive the toughest agency seasons and come out stronger—if you track the right numbers, avoid “superclient” risk, and learn to truly let go. What You'll Learn Why resilience (not just growth hacks) is the real agency survival skill How ignoring KPIs almost cost the agency big—and how to avoid that mistake Why letting go of control is the only way to grow past founder-dependence What a rebrand really signals about an agency's maturity and leadership shift The hidden dangers of relying on a “superclient” Key Takeaways Keep overhead light in uncertain times—it gives you room to maneuver when crises hit. Track your KPIs like a client project: salaries as % of AGI, AGI per employee, revenue per client. Don't rely on a single client for survival—client concentration is a silent killer. Empower your team early—you can't scale if you're reviewing every deliverable yourself. Rebrands work when they reflect a cultural shift—not just a new logo. What does it really take to keep an agency alive through market crashes, pandemics, and the endless grind without burning out or losing your edge? Today's featured guest will unpack his journey from starting in a basement with a couple of clients to leading a 30-person team through some of the toughest seasons an agency can face. From navigating financial blind spots to learning how to actually let go and trust his team, and the reason the agency's 25th anniversary actually marked a big shift with a new rebrand. Bill Swanston is the president and founder of Bosun, an Atlanta-based agency that just celebrated its 25th anniversary. Formerly known as Frederick Swanston, the agency has weathered market crashes, client shakeups, and a pandemic while building a powerhouse team with deep creative and digital chops. In this episode, we'll discuss: The challenges that really tested the agency's resilience. How learning to love KPIs saved the business. Why rebrand after 25 years? Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you're leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That's why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Building Through Adversity and Surviving 9/11 After moving back to Atlanta from New York, Bill was freelancing at BBDO and thinking about switching to smaller agency. As he saw it, it was better to be a big fish in a smaller pond. Unfortunately, his gig at the smaller agency was short lived, since the agency shut down for good. Instead of packing it in, Bill and his partner Scott Frederick grabbed a few clients, set up shop in a basement, and got to work. Built-in revenue gave them a smoother start than most scrappy entrepreneurs, but reality set in quickly. By the early 2000s, they were hit hard by 9/11 and its ripple effect on corporate events. It was a reminder that whether you're at a big holding company or running your own small shop, stability is often an illusion. Surviving those first waves meant keeping overhead light, grinding it out, and learning how to adapt before the word “pivot” became a business cliché. The Challenge that Really Tested the Agency's Resilience Partnerships can make or break an agency and Bill admits the early years with his partner had their rough patches, not as creatives, but as business owners learning how to disagree productively. Over time, their different strengths meshed into what became a powerful leadership duo. But nothing tested the agency quite like COVID. With a staff of 30 suddenly looking to them for answers, the partners had to act fast. They slashed salaries, cut their own pay completely, and relied on federal relief programs like PPP loans to keep the team intact. That lifeline, combined with quick adjustments, got them back on track. As Bill put it, “It was the absolute worst period of time for the agency. But we came out stronger because we had no choice but to figure it out fast.” From Gut Instinct to KPIs That Saved the Business Like a lot of creative-led shops, Bill and his partner weren't exactly obsessed with financial metrics at first. According to Bill, they mostly leaned on QuickBooks, check-writing, and gut instincts. That worked until it didn't. By the time they realized improprieties had slipped under the radar, they knew it was time to upgrade. Today, they track everything from salaries as a percentage of adjusted gross income to AGI per employee to recurring revenue versus project-based work. They also look at revenue per client to ensure there isn't any one account that is overwhelming the team. Like many agencies, they had this happen at one point, with a client that accounted for 50% of their billing. He remembers being scared once this client started to dwindle as a result of the ‘08 crisis, which taught him the danger of relying on superclients that can walk away and take half your revenue with them. Bill stresses that KPIs aren't about being a math whiz, but about having clarity. Knowing your true profitability by client or department means you stop guessing and start making better decisions. “We do it for our clients,” he said, “so we've got to do it for ourselves too.” Nowadays, he works with an external CPA and an internal comptroller who help him keep an eye on the agency's finances. Pro tip: If you're not yet at the point where you can have a CFO but don't know where to start to assess your agency's financials, use askquick.ai. It's a tool developed by Jason and his team that'll help you figure out your most profitable clients, assess your financial red flags, measure your KPIs, and more. Learning to Let Go and Empower the Team For the first decade, Bill and Scott were deep in the weeds, reviewing every creative output, managing every account, carrying the business on their backs. Eventually, the workload became too much and they had to learn how to trust others. Empowering team members to make real decisions wasn't easy. It started organically as new hires took over account management, media, and digital responsibilities. Over time, Bill realized the work improved when people felt ownership and felt empowered to shape the agency. “The ability to let go and trust others is essential to grow your agency,” he says. This trust not only gave the agency room to grow but also gave Bill and Scott the freedom to step back from being prisoners of their own business. Why Would a 25 Year Old Agency Rebrand Now? After two and a half decades as Frederick Swanston, the founders made the bold move to rebrand as Bosun to better reflect what they'd become. The decision was about more than a new logo. According to Bill, keeping their surnames in the brand felt too self-centered and didn't reflect the agency's culture. The rebrand signaled a shift: it's not about Bill or Scott anymore. It's about the team, the clients, and the relationships that actually fuel the work. While rebrands often make clients nervous, Bill said the transition was seamless. In fact, many partners celebrated alongside them, proving that strong relationships matter more than the name on the door. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you still thinking of AI as just “ChatGPT with a better prompt”? Or maybe you've played around with Zapier automations and thought, yeah, that's good enough. Today's featured guest knows that the agencies pulling ahead right now are building full-on AI agent networks that replace routine tasks, streamline data pipelines, and give their teams superpowers. She's re-engineering her agency around AI and will talk about where she finds top-tier talent and why you don't need to code to lead your agency into the future. Jennifer Bagley is the CEO and founder of CI Web Group, a fully virtual digital marketing agency registered in 22 U.S. states with clients across the United States and Canada. A former corporate operator turned entrepreneur, Jennifer started in real estate and mortgage brokerage before leaning into the marketing work she built to support those businesses. Today she runs a modern, tech-forward agency that's rebuilt its stack around AI, centralized data, and agentic networks, all while carrying the scars and lessons of scaling, pivoting, and re-founding a business from the ground up. In this episode, we'll discuss: Feeling trapped by the business. Hiring, firing, and the people reset AI, reskilling, and the end of “middle” roles What does this talent cost? Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. From Corporate Ladder to Accidental Agency Founder Jennifer came from an operations background, a self-proclaimed black belt in Six Sigma and certified project manager. Having built that corporate background, she had made a promise to herself (“by 30 I'll be an entrepreneur”), and started to build the side hustle that became the main event. She started in real estate and mortgage brokering where she had to learn marketing the hard way; not because she wanted to be a marketer, but because the survival of her businesses depended on it. Initially, Jennifer didn't set out to build a scalable agency; she built a team to support her broker network. When the market collapsed in 2008, the same team that did marketing for agents suddenly had a market outside real estate. That “we'll just help this painter or HVAC company” phase is where the web group was born: small, service-focused, and useful to people in her network. That accidental turn became a business by solving real, pressing problems for paying clients, then leaned into that. Trading Time for Freedom: The Hard Pivot For the first five years, Jennifer describes the business as a “lifestyle” operation, profitable maybe, but trapping her time. She was trading billable hours for income and was reaching her limit when she hired a coach that forced a reckoning: if entrepreneurship isn't buying you time, money, and freedom, what's the point? So she made the brutal choice of cutting consulting contracts and burning the bridge to the “safety” of hourly work, and effectively gave herself a mulligan. This is the classic founder pivot: you have to choose between growth that keeps you doing the work and growth that scales the business without you. Jennifer's reset wasn't pretty, for a while she lost everything and she and her son lived in an office for a while, but it bought her the permission to build something salable, not just sustainable. Agency owners who feel trapped in delivery need to remember that sometimes you have to give up short-term revenue to create long-term value. Feeling Trapped by the Agency and Becoming a CEO Those first five years, Jennifer continued to run a business that started as a supply chain consulting and eventually turned into a sales supply chain consulting. This change meant the business was now a good lead generator for the agency but it also meant Jennifer was essentially selling her image and her time. Until she ran out of time. Once she felt trapped by the business, Jennifer actually hired a business coach that helped her change the model from “selling Jennifer with marketing on the side” to an actual sustainable business. She had to go back to the basics and remember she, like every entrepreneur, started the business with the idea of having more time, money, and freedom. It took losing everything, but Jennifer knew she didn't want a lifestyle business, she wanted a sellable business. The antidote was delegation plus systems. If you want growth and a future exit, you need to own those CEO responsibilities and be comfortable with letting go of the day-to-day. Hiring, Firing, and Resetting the Team Jennifer's talent strategy has evolved with each stage of growth. Her early hires were the classic “friends, family, fools” bootstrap crew; later she invested in developers, content teams, project managers, and over time, more strategic hires like CFOs, chief of staff, BI teams, and AI engineers. Each five-year arc brought a new set of needs and a new level of sophistication in hiring. Now, she divides her time between promoting her agency's work in podcasts and content and thinking of ways to navigate her business in these volatile and exciting times. Her most recent addition to the team was a technology and transformation team that is revisiting all of the agency's processes, investments, and infrastructure. As a result, she has downsized her team from over 300 W2 employees and refocus the team. The takeaway for agency owners: be honest about whether your people are builders or maintainers, and hire accordingly. The workforce you need for growth is not the same as the workforce you need for stable operations. Building AI Agent Networks with Centralized Data Jennifer's agency shifted from WordPress to Webflow and built agentic networks: hundreds of AI agents that crawl competitors, do strategy homework, and automate tasks that humans used to do. More importantly, they rebuilt infrastructure into a hub-and-spoke model with a centralized min.io data layer and ETL pipelines feeding analytics and BI. Two big lessons here. One: invest in your tech stack deliberately so you're not a Frankenstein of five different platforms that don't talk to each other. Two: design your data architecture so your people (and your AI agents) have a single source of truth. That's how you get from fire-fighting in six dashboards to proactive, predictive signals that tell you when a client engagement needs attention. AI, Reskilling, and Shrinking Middle Roles Jennifer draws a hard line: the agency now tends to hire either very seasoned client-facing leaders or AI engineers; the middle is shrinking. With agentic networks giving junior staff “superpowers,” the agency can afford fewer mid-level “lever pullers.” At this level there's no room for slow execution or elementary work. That's a cultural and ethical challenge, both for hiring and for workforce development. For agency owners, this raises practical HR questions: do you reskill your people, or replace them? Jennifer suggests building agent-driven systems that augment humans, and being brutally honest about who can grow into that future. It's also a call to action for how we prepare the next generation: schools won't teach this; companies will need to. Playing with AI Platforms: Why Leaders Need to Just Know Enough to Be Dangerous Jennifer started like a lot of agency owners dipping into AI, playing around on tools like n8n, Make.com, Relevance, and Longchain. Her dev team laughed, calling her an “elementary school kid on a tricycle,” but here's the point: she didn't need to master the tech. She needed to know enough to point her team in the right direction. Instead of obsessing over code, she framed the problem differently: “Here's what I don't want a human doing anymore. Can you make that happen?” That mindset shift is key for agency owners. You don't need to be a full-stack AI engineer to lead an agency into the future; you just need to clearly define outcomes and invest in people who can deliver them. Find Real AI Talent in Unlikely Places This is where most agencies get stuck. You're not going to find your next AI architect on Upwork. Jennifer leaned on her network, starting with her cousin Chris, a hardcore developer who initially thought AI platforms were “rookie business.” Once Chris realized the power of agentic networks to scale his expertise, he became the backbone of CI Web Group's transformation. Now, she hunts talent in unconventional places: hackathons, LinkedIn, and especially YouTube. Forget the flashy “10x growth hack” videos — she looks for nerds with four views, geeking out about orchestrators and ETL pipelines. Those are the builders who care about solving real problems, not just building hype. Her tip: if you find one, reach out immediately. They don't want sales, they just want to build. Designing AI Agents Like an Agency Org Chart Jennifer compares AI agents to a company org chart. You don't hire one person to do everything, that's a recipe for burnout. Same thing with AI. Each agent should tightly focus on a single task, with checks, auditors, and orchestrators overseeing the system. The payoff was massive efficiency gains. Instead of six different platforms that don't talk, her agency built a centralized hub with min.io, ClickHouse, and AI layers on top. That's how you go from patchwork automation to true predictive intelligence. The Real Cost of AI Talent If you're wondering how much this all costs, the answer is… a lot. On the high end, seasoned AI engineers can run you a quarter million in salary. On the low end, Jennifer tests new hires on project-based sprints, maybe $6K for a 10-hour challenge. The point isn't to cut costs; it's to prove quickly who can deliver and who can't. Her recruiting process is brutal but effective: give candidates a project, a tight deadline, and see how they perform. If they stall, they're out. If they screen-share fast and solve problems live, they're in. No fluff, no endless interviews. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.