Bellwether Hub Podcast

Episode 148 – Marketing is Breaking Us: The Cost of Constant Influence and How to Push BackKeywords: marketing fatigue, digital burnout, attention economy, wellness strategies, New York podcast, personal development, mental clarity, stress relief, modern lifestyleSummary: In this explosive episode of Jim's Take, Jim Frawley takes a hard look at the overwhelming barrage of marketing messages infiltrating every part of our daily lives—from inescapable airplane ads to influencer-driven nonsense and fake "choices" built to manipulate you. With over 10,000 ad impressions a day, Americans are drowning in noise—and it's wrecking our focus, wellness, and sanity.Jim dives deep into:How marketing has shifted from suggestion to manipulationThe psychological toll of constant distraction and digital noiseWhy tipping culture, fake discounts, and "dynamic pricing" are subtle behavioral trapsReal-life examples from airports, emails, self-serve beer taps, and beyondActionable ways to reclaim your peace: opt-outs, tech boundaries, and curating your lifeThis episode isn't just a rant—it's a call to reset. Whether you're in New York or navigating life in any modern city, this is a wake-up call to reclaim your autonomy, restore serenity, and stop letting algorithms dictate your life.Listen now and start cutting the noise. Serenity isn't for sale—but it's still possible to find.

Episode Title: Are All of Our Problems Social Problems?Episode Number: 147Host: Jim FrawleyKeywords: social wellness, mental health, fear of failure, social anxiety, belief systems, social comparison, loneliness, imposter syndrome, personal development, human connectionEpisode SummaryIn this thought-provoking episode of Jim's Take, Jim Frawley explores a radical idea: most of our personal challenges—fear, anxiety, even financial stress—are actually rooted in social disconnection.Jim breaks down how the overlooked pillar of social wellness impacts everything from our self-confidence to our day-to-day decision-making. Whether you're feeling the pressure of performance, struggling with insecurity, or wondering why comparison is eating away at your joy, this episode offers a clear framework to reframe the problem—and solve it at its social core.This isn't about being more extroverted. It's about being more honest, connected, and human.What You'll Learn in This EpisodeWhy social wellness is the missing third leg of the wellness stool (alongside physical and mental health)How the fear of failure is actually fear of judgmentWhy imposter syndrome is a social problem, not a personal flawThe role of comparison in both financial dissatisfaction and life anxietyHow performative social media behavior erodes confidence and presenceThe importance of a personal belief system to combat external validation-seekingWhy your social circle may need an audit—and how to do it with clarity, not blameActionable steps to reconnect with people through small, no-agenda interactionsOutline– Introduction– The missing pillar of wellness: Social health– Why we ignore social wellness (and what it costs us)– The challenge of adult friendship and social effort– Reframing fear of failure and judgment– Imposter syndrome: You know enough– Financial stress and the trap of comparison– Social media's false promise of relevance– The five people closest to you—and why it matters– Building internal beliefs to withstand external noise– Micro-strategies for low-pressure connection– Final thoughts on connection, meaning, and how to be humanNotable Quotes“We are not afraid of failure. We're afraid of what people will think when we fail.”“Without internal conviction, we're always seeking external validation—and we never find it.”“You don't have to be a social butterfly. You just have to be human.”Connect with JimWebsite: www.jimfrawley.comLinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jimfrawleyInstagram: @jimfrawleynyTwitter: @jimfrawleynyTikTok: @jimfrawleyny

In this episode, Jim breaks down something we've all lost touch with: leisure—not vacations, not performative “self-care,” but the daily, essential ability to check out and truly recharge.From the illusion of optimized rest to the guilt we carry when we're not being productive, Jim explores why doing nothing might be the most human thing you can do today. If you're burnt out, stuck in hustle mode, or just can't remember the last time you lost track of time, this one's for you.What You'll Learn:Why most of us have forgotten how to relax—and how that's hurting usThe difference between looking relaxed and actually being at restHow the wellness industry has co-opted leisure and turned it into another jobReal-life examples of “micro-leisure” that require no agenda, no outcomes, and no trackingWhy true leisure is the antidote to burnout, decision fatigue, and societal edgeThe radical idea that doing nothing… might be exactly what you needQuotable Moments:“Rest has become another job. Even our candles come with to-do lists.”“We took hustle culture, put yoga pants on it, and called it self-care.”“If your rest has a reason, it's not rest. It's just disguised ambition.”“Leisure isn't lazy. It's human.”Challenge to Listeners:Find 15 minutes today. No phone. No goals. No productivity hack. Just exist. And if that feels weird… that's probably a sign you need it.Mentioned in This Episode:Listening to full albums (like Led Zeppelin or Wu-Tang) start to finishSitting in silence, people-watching, or browsing a bookstore with no planThe difference between personal development and disguised productivityPhilosophical reflections on meaning and presenceSubscribe, Share & Review:If you enjoyed this episode, please share it with someone who needs a reminder that it's okay to do nothing—and don't forget to leave a review wherever you listen.

Episode SummaryWhy does it feel like everyone is constantly on edge? In this episode of Jim's Take, Jim explores the steady erosion of civility in modern life. From political hostility to comment section outrage and tension in the workplace, he breaks down the core reasons we're seeing less respect and constructive dialogue—and what we can do to change that.Jim examines three key forces driving today's decline in civility:A divisive political climateThe rise of digital communication and loss of human nuanceEscalating stress and pressure in everyday lifeHe challenges listeners to reflect on how they respond to difficult situations, and whether they want to be remembered as someone who fuels division—or someone who brings people together.Key Topics CoveredWhy civility is more than just politenessHow political polarization has normalized disrespectThe impact of social media on empathy and accountabilityThe toll chronic stress takes on patience and behaviorMisconceptions around humility, empathy, and vulnerabilityThe importance of interacting with people who think differentlyWhy leading by example matters more than everSupporting Statistics85% of U.S. adults say the tone and nature of political debate has become more negative (Pew Research Center)88% of Americans believe political incivility is a serious problem (Georgetown University)Research shows digital communication reduces emotional cues, increasing misunderstandings and perceived rudenessThe American Psychological Association reports that high stress levels are linked to increased irritability and decreased civilityPractical TakeawaysDon't wait for others to model civility—be the exampleReplace assumptions with honest questionsEngage with new perspectives, not just familiar onesPractice self-reflection instead of reacting impulsivelyConsider reading Meditations by Marcus Aurelius to ground your perspectiveThink long-term—civility builds relationship equity and trust over timeClosing Thought“You don't need to wait for someone else to set the example. Be the example. Get your manners back, smile, and take a deep breath. Civility starts with you.”Keywords (SEO Tags)civility in modern life, political division, social media and empathy, workplace communication, technology and behavior, stress and conflict, how to be civil, reclaim civility, Jim's Take podcast, emotional intelligence, self-awareness, political discourse, digital communication, Marcus Aurelius, personal growth podcastConnect and SubscribeListen to all episodes of Jim's Take on your preferred podcast platformShare your experiences or thoughts about today's episodeSubscribe for more weekly episodes on navigating modern life with clarity, calm, and intention

Episode SummaryThe world feels like it's on the edge of something big—markets are swinging, costs are rising, and everyone has suddenly become an economic or political expert. In this episode, Jim takes a deep dive into capitalism's chaotic nature, how it shapes our daily lives, and what we can do to take control amidst uncertainty. This isn't just about economics—it's about how we respond to change, where we spend our money, and how to reclaim financial and mental peace.Key Topics Discussed:The unpredictability of capitalism and its impact on daily lifeHow to navigate economic uncertainty without falling into fearThe hidden costs of convenience and how small fees add upThe psychology of consumerism and how marketing shapes our spendingWhy companies push artificial scarcity and dynamic pricing modelsRethinking tipping culture, hidden fees, and unnecessary expensesHow to shift from being a passive consumer to an intentional spenderThe importance of simplifying your life and reducing unnecessary purchasesStrategies for regaining control over finances and decision-makingThe mindset shift needed to survive and thrive in turbulent economic timesJim's Takeaways:You have more control than you think – The key to navigating economic chaos is shifting from reactive to proactive decision-making.Small costs add up – The extra fees, tipping culture, and “convenience” charges are draining wallets daily.Consumer psychology is powerful – Companies are designed to keep you spending, but recognizing their tactics helps you make better choices.Simplicity brings peace – Cutting back, decluttering, and making intentional purchases can lead to a better, more fulfilling life.Stop waiting for others to fix the system – Governments and corporations aren't going to change overnight, but you can adjust your approach right now.Challenge for Listeners:Take a hard look at your spending habits—where is your money going?Identify one convenience fee, service, or unnecessary purchase you can cut out.Consider what “simplicity” means to you and how it could improve your quality of life.Get in Touch:Have thoughts on this episode? Want to share how you're navigating capitalism? Send Jim a message—he'd love to hear from you.Follow for more insights, updates, and future episodes."This too shall pass. But in the meantime, let's take control of what we can." – Jim

Episode 143: Belief Systems Amid Insane ChangesWelcome to Jim's Take!In this episode, Jim dives into the evolving landscape of belief systems as we navigate the relentless chaos of change. With nearly 45 days into a new presidency, he unpacks the leadership lessons from a change management perspective while addressing the rising tide of anxiety and uncertainty in today's world.What to Expect in This Episode:Grading Leadership in Times of Change – A no-holds-barred assessment of the early days of the new administration, focusing on leadership, communication, and decision-making.How Do We Respond to Change? – The emotional and psychological impact of political and economic instability on individuals and businesses.The Power of Belief Systems – Jim shares six core beliefs that have shaped his approach to navigating uncertainty, inspired by past experiences, including the 2008 financial crisis.Jim's Six Core Beliefs:There's Nothing That Can't Be Done – Overcoming limitations and embracing possibility.There Are No Rules… But There Are Right and Wrong Ways to Do Things – Understanding consequences and ethics in decision-making.Always Make Sure the Last Person Gets Home – The responsibility of supporting others in times of crisis.There's Always Room for One More – Embracing inclusivity and the importance of community.Heaven and Hell Exist—But Not After We Die – Living authentically and staying true to personal values.This Too Shall Pass – Recognizing the transient nature of chaos and focusing on resilience.Key Takeaways:The importance of focusing on what you can control amid external chaos.How personal beliefs serve as a filter for decision-making and emotional resilience.The role of authenticity, trust, and action in building a more grounded and purpose-driven life.Final Thoughts: Jim reminds us that the way we consume and respond to information shapes our daily reality. Instead of getting caught in the noise of political drama, social media, and anxiety, shift your attention to meaningful action—whether it's personal growth, fostering human connections, or staying true to your values.What's Next? Stay tuned for the next episode, where Jim will explore the chaos of capitalism and its implications for inequality and systemic change.Thanks for listening! If you found this episode insightful, share it with someone who might need a fresh perspective. See you next time!

Episode Summary: In this captivating episode of Jim's Take, Jim welcomes the incredible Ronan Rooney, a thought leader, author, and philosophy enthusiast from Ireland. Together, they dive deep into concepts of the authentic self, enlightenment, and finding meaning in a chaotic world. From Ronan's journey through family business, personal struggles, and philosophical explorations to the practical ways we can reconnect with our true essence, this conversation is packed with insights.Key Topics Discussed:Ronan's Story:From running a third-generation family business to exploring life's big questions.Facing financial collapse, personal setbacks, and discovering resilience.Writing books endorsed by global leaders like Deepak Chopra and Robin Sharma.The Authentic Self:Understanding what it means to live as your authentic self.How conditioning impacts our decisions and the journey to strip it away.Indicators that you are living authentically—peace, fulfillment, and alignment.Meditation and the Gap:The importance of meditation in reconnecting with your essence.How small, consistent practices can help access the "gap" between thoughts.Challenges and Growth:Why struggle can be a tool for growth and creativity.Insights on appreciating life's miracle and overcoming fear of change.Finding Meaning and Nirvana on Earth:How we can individually achieve a state of grace even amidst global turmoil.Exploring perspectives on interconnectedness, spirituality, and divine expression.Enlightenment and Beyond:Balancing the quest for enlightenment with living a full and vibrant life.The evolving consciousness of humanity and embracing a paradigm shift.Notable Quotes:“The authentic self is expressing who you truly are—your best traits, free from external conditioning.”“You don't have to wait for the world to change. You can hold a state of grace amidst any turmoil.”“Life is a miracle, and we're here to enjoy it while learning and growing through challenges.”Practical Takeaways:Daily Practices: Begin your day with a brief moment of reflection before the first thought sets in. Incorporate 15-30 minutes of meditation daily to connect with your true self.Self-Reflection Questions:What beliefs or values are truly yours, and what has been conditioned by others?What brings you peace, fulfillment, and a sense of purpose?Appreciation Over Gratitude: Cultivate appreciation for the miracle of life and your own potential.About Our Guest: Ronan Rooney is a writer, speaker, and consultant passionate about philosophy, metaphysics, and self-discovery. He has authored multiple books on conscious awareness and personal growth, with his latest work focusing on deepening our connection to the authentic self.Connect with Us:Subscribe to Jim's Take on your favorite podcast platform.Share your thoughts and questions on this episode on social media using #JimsTakePodcast.Follow us for updates and exclusive content.Join us next week as we continue exploring ideas that challenge, inspire, and empower. See you then!

Episode Summary:In this deeply inspiring episode of Jim's Take, we are joined by the extraordinary Claire Bowes from Northern Ireland. A mother, business owner, and music teacher, Claire shares her powerful journey of resilience and determination following a life-changing event. Blinded at the age of 15 in the 1998 Omagh bombing, Claire has not only overcome unimaginable challenges but has redefined what it means to live fully.Claire discusses her journey from trauma to triumph, including founding the Omagh Music Academy, her philosophy on embracing discomfort for growth, and the profound joys of simple pleasures. This conversation is a testament to human strength and the importance of community, support, and self-determination.Key Topics Covered:Claire's life-changing experience and the lessons learned about resilience.Overcoming challenges as a teenager and pursuing independence.The role of family, community, and support in her recovery and growth.How Claire challenges herself to grow beyond her comfort zone, including her recent trip to New York.The importance of normalcy and appreciating life's simple pleasures.Her ongoing research into helping visually impaired children memorize music.Guest Bio:Claire Bowes is a mother, business owner, and founder of the Omagh Music Academy, which offers music lessons to individuals of all ages and abilities. A passionate advocate for resilience and growth, Claire is currently pursuing a PhD, researching how visually impaired children effectively memorize music. Her journey is an inspiring example of turning adversity into empowerment.Connect with Claire Bowes:LinkedIn: Claire BowesClaire's Book Recommendations:The Midnight Library by Matt Haig – A thought-provoking novel about life choices and second chances.The Magic by Rhonda Byrne – A practical guide to cultivating gratitude and transforming your mindset.Listener Challenge:Claire's story is a reminder to embrace challenges and ask for help when needed. Take a moment this week to step outside your comfort zone and reflect on the simple joys in your life.Follow and Subscribe:Stay tuned for more inspiring conversations on Jim's Take. Don't forget to subscribe, rate, and review the podcast to help others discover these meaningful stories.Closing Notes:Thank you for listening! Reach out to Claire, support her research, and join us next time for another insightful episode.

Episode Title: 2025 and the Battle of ApathyEpisode Summary:In this reflective final episode of 2024, Jim dives into an unexpected theme: apathy. As we transition into 2025, Jim opens up about his personal struggles with motivation, emotional detachment, and the overwhelming noise of modern life. He reframes the new year not as a time for hollow resolutions but as an opportunity to confront apathy with intentional engagement, presence, and personal meaning.What You'll Learn:Defining Apathy: Understand apathy as more than just lack of interest — it's a response to overwhelm, burnout, and disconnection.Root Causes: Explore how social, professional, and personal pressures contribute to emotional disengagement and what drives feelings of “not caring.”Intentional Disengagement: Learn how to identify and ignore external chaos while focusing on what truly matters.The Power of Presence: Discover why presence is essential to finding meaning and how intentional focus can help combat apathy.Actionable Steps for 2025: Jim shares his personal strategy for confronting apathy through meaningful goals, mindful activities, and redefining personal priorities.Memorable Insights:"External chaos drives internal chaos — but you can choose what to engage with.""The future is a hoax if you can't be present.""Life has no inherent meaning — our purpose is to give it meaning.""The antidote to apathy is intentional confrontation — with ourselves, our routines, and our values."Key Takeaways for Your 2025 Reset:Define what you truly care about — and why.Prioritize presence over perfection.Engage meaningfully with people, passions, and personal goals.Disengage from external pressures that drain your energy.Looking Ahead:Jim shares his ambitious goals for 2025, including writing new books, competing in the Lake Placid Ironman, and running the New York City Marathon — all fueled by a deeper connection to purpose and meaning.Challenge for the New Year:What do you care about — and why? Take time to reflect, define, and act with intention.Final Thoughts:Thank you for joining Jim's Take in 2024. Here's to a meaningful, intentional, and connected 2025. See you next year!

**Podcast Show Notes: Jim's Take - Episode 139****Title:** Should There Be Billionaires? A Reflection on Wealth, Society, and Change**Episode Summary:**In this thought-provoking episode of *Jim's Take*, Jim explores the complex question: *Should there be billionaires?* Drawing inspiration from a bumper sticker he saw years ago, he reflects on capitalism, wealth inequality, and societal change. This isn't just a theoretical discussion—it's a deep dive into how unchecked capitalism, privatization, and societal expectations are reshaping our lives.**Key Topics Covered:**1. **The Origin of the Question:**    - How a bumper sticker sparked deep reflections during a run.    - The evolving relevance of the question in today's world.2. **Capitalism and Wealth Accumulation:**    - Arguments for and against the existence of billionaires.    - The balance between hard work, value creation, and societal responsibility.3. **Economic Inequality and Societal Impact:**    - The erosion of basic human rights like access to water, food, and healthcare.    - Real-life stories of healthcare denial and corporate profiteering.4. **Societal Unrest and Systemic Failures:**    - Why economic pressure and unmet needs fuel societal frustration.    - Reflections on historical and current examples of societal breakdown.5. **The Role of Government and Corporations:**    - How government and corporate responsibility intersect—or fail to.    - The need for systemic reform and collective accountability.6. **Personal Responsibility and Action:**    - Simple steps individuals can take in response to societal challenges.    - The importance of self-sufficiency, advocacy, and creating positive change.**Memorable Quotes:**- *“Unchecked capitalism erodes the foundational needs of society.”*  - *“What's enough profit? How do we recognize when we've done enough?”*  - *“We're humans—we need a lot of things, and we're not quite meeting that for people.”***Call to Action:**Have thoughts on the episode? Share your perspective on societal change and economic responsibility. What do you believe needs to change—and how can we, as individuals and communities, take action?**Connect with Us:**- Website: www.jimfrawley.com  - Social Media: @jimfrawleyny**Thank you for tuning in!**Join us next week for another deep dive into the issues shaping our world.

Episode Summary:In this episode of Jim's Take, Jim is joined by Sharon McNulty, founder of Joyful Spaces and a multi-award-winning professional organizer with clients worldwide. Sharon, a master-level certified coach trained under Marie Kondo, shares her journey from a busy single mom overwhelmed by clutter to a black-belt organizer transforming homes and businesses globally.Sharon dives into the philosophy behind creating joyful spaces, discussing the emotional and psychological impact of clutter and disorganization. She emphasizes the importance of intentionality, simplicity, and abundance, offering practical steps to organize your space and life effectively. Whether it's managing sentimental items, decluttering your workspace, or teaching kids organizational life skills, Sharon's advice is rooted in compassion and actionable wisdom.What You'll Learn in This Episode:How your physical environment affects your mental and emotional well-being.The key differences between managing a home versus a workspace.Sharon's step-by-step system for organizing by category, not by room.Practical tips for letting go of sentimental items without guilt.How to maintain a joyful and functional space after the initial organization.The connection between simplicity, abundance, and a less consumerist mindset.Episode Highlights:[03:15] Sharon's background and journey to becoming a professional organizer.[07:30] Overcoming the overwhelm of clutter and embracing intentional simplicity.[15:45] Sharon's philosophy on abundance and breaking free from a “lack mentality.”[25:10] Addressing sentimental items and the importance of starting small.[30:40] Applying these principles to workspaces and home offices.[42:00] Sharon's practical advice for getting started and staying consistent.Quotes:“Your home should be a space you're proud of—a place that sparks joy and supports your life.”“Clutter isn't just physical; it's emotional. Creating joyful spaces transforms your mindset.”“Start with what you love and let the rest go with gratitude.”Resources Mentioned:Sharon McNulty's Website: joyfulspaces.co.ukFollow Sharon on Instagram and Facebook: @joyfulspacesConnect with Sharon on LinkedIn: Sharon McNultyBook Mentioned: The Life-Changing Magic of Tidying Up by Marie KondoConnect with Us:Follow Jim Frawley on LinkedIn, Instagram, Twitter and BlueSky. Have questions or topic suggestions? Email us through our website at www.jimfrawley.comThanks for Listening!If you enjoyed this episode, please leave a review and share it with a friend who could use a little extra joy in their space! Don't forget to subscribe for more inspiring conversations.

Episode Summary:In this short yet thought-provoking episode, Jim dives into the concept of struggle—not as a source of trauma, but as a necessary and fulfilling aspect of life. With technology and AI taking over much of our effort, Jim challenges listeners to actively seek purposeful challenges to maintain their sense of value and self-worth.Drawing from personal experiences, philosophical reflections, and insights from a recent tech conference in Manhattan, Jim explores why embracing struggle is essential for growth, resilience, and pride in one's accomplishments.Key Discussion Points:Why Struggle Matters:Struggle helps us define purpose and value in an increasingly automated world.It fosters self-reliance, mental resilience, and emotional regulation.Insights from the Tech Conference:Highlights from discussions with experts in AI, social good, and cybersecurity.Jim's take: While tech advances are exciting, we need to prepare for their human impact, particularly the diminishing experience of struggle.Struggle vs. Trauma:Clarifying the difference between healthy, intentional struggle and life-altering trauma.Examples of productive struggles: parenting challenges, athletic goals, and professional obstacles.Parenting and Struggle:Stories about encouraging kids to overcome challenges, like crossing monkey bars or potty training.Lessons for parents: Don't do everything for your kids—let them experience the reward of effort.The Workplace Connection:Why many employees feel disengaged at work: a lack of projects they can take pride in.How employers can foster meaningful struggles to increase engagement and fulfillment.Examples of Intentional Struggles:Running marathons, solving puzzles, starting a business, or stepping out of your comfort zone socially.The reward isn't just achieving the goal—it's the journey, discipline, and growth along the way.A Call to Action for 2025:Jim's challenge to listeners:Choose a struggle that excites you.Set a plan to tackle it.Reflect on the pride of accomplishment.Struggles can be physical, mental, or social—find what works for you and embrace it.Memorable Quote:"Home is a place for comfort, but if we stay there, we miss the experiences that help us remember who we are."

Times are changing. With information moving so quickly, and higher expectations of employees for their organization to “have their back,” executives are stuck between a rock and a hard place to navigate what's appropriate and best for the business, their people and the company's values.Pairing this with the idea of individual executives (or front line employees) having their own “brand,” there is often a conflict between the personal views of people that make up and are representing the company. Often it's no big deal, but when politics enters the workstream every four years, the emotional challenges of navigating difficult conversations on philosophy, economic theory, social justice and more can overwhelm the group. It was never “ok” to speak politics at work - it was something that was left to individuals to believe what they wanted. In a way, it was a protection for us to not have the uncomfortable conversations we didn't want to have. Similar to religion and even sports, emotions overtake logic, and most conversations don't end well. But with the rise of never-ending information, opinion presented as facts, beliefs presented as truths - the game has changed. And many of us - from leadership down to the front line - are expected to navigate a political landscape with no real value in the end game. Here are some tips for navigating political conversations at work. Whenever we have a list of “tips,” I like to ask questions - as you are the one who will be lying in the bed you make.

There is a well known epidemic of loneliness in the world, and the increasing levels of change are exacerbating the challenge. I'd argue there are three things needed for wellness: Physical health, Mental health, and Social health. We were happy to be joined by Janine Kutliroff, CEO of Brya, a company focused on helping people build healthy and active in-person social connections. Janine's comments will resonate to almost everyone - I hope you enjoy.

The Goddess is Back! Jim and Sam have a good discussion on the personal accountability of being social, how we build our own communities, and have a small battle royale on the value of in-person vs. online social groups.

I recently took an Ayahuasca journey - eight days at Spiritquest Sanctuary in Iquitos, Peru. As requested, I've recounted the journey -from what Ayahuasca is, to why I picked Spiritquest and how the Amazon tradition was helpful, right on through the visions and the purging.

Jim gives his take on the "desperate need for relevance" - our innate desire for value, acceptance and belonging. As the world evolves, we are fearing being left behind ... and our fears drive action and behaviors. Come for the social media bashing, stay for tips on how to build in person social resources (thus building your relevance).

Episode 131 - Jim and Catherine break down "technology truths." We are on the precipice of technological change unseen before. How do we prepare for change when we don't know what change is coming? Jim and Catherine break it down.

Resiliency is a buzzword. But it's necessary. Jim sits down with Catherine Murnin, founder of The Wellbeing Pathway, to chat realistic resilience, why it's important, how we should think about it and build our own plan.

Ahhhh middle management. Where you get to sandwich between theory and reality, with outrageous expectations and mitigated work life balance. This episode has a nice venting session on Middle Management, why it sucks, and strategies/responses we can use to dictate our next career path.

In our second of four interviews with Catherine, we cover Creativity with Purpose, and how creativity is a massive drive to our wellbeing. Come for the reference to Seamus Heaney, stay for the learning on how creativity is everywhere (not just where you think).

Let's cover the biggest issue in corporate nobody is talking about: Insecurity. Not just a simple "impostor syndrome" conversation - but what causes it, what drives it, how we react to it, and how to identify it in other people. Change the game with your interactions on this episode.

In our first of four conversations, Catherine and Jim outline how to build ideal connections and community, based on aligning with your personal values and motivations.

In the journey of our careers and social lives, the pursuit of a "seat at the table" has become a familiar phrase, symbolizing recognition, validation, and influence. However, like so many age-old metaphors, rarely do we take the time to look beyond their assumed surface-level meaning. Many still work tirelessly in hopes of earning a place here, without fully understanding exactly what it is they're after, or what it may require to get there. 

In episode 124 of "Welcome to Jim's: Take Happy Week," Jim delves into the concept of gentle leadership, initially expressing skepticism towards the latest leadership trend. However, the episode explores the relevance of gentle leadership in today's discourse on leadership and personal development, emphasizing its focus on empathy, kindness, and collaboration. The host discusses the origins of gentle leadership, drawing parallels with the concept of gentle parenting, which gained popularity years ago.While acknowledging the benefits of fostering psychological safety and creating environments where individuals can thrive, there are potential drawbacks. Excessive focus on empathy can lead to entitlement and an inability to cope with life's challenges. Furthermore, the episode emphasizes the importance of setting and maintaining high standards, challenging individuals to meet expectations while providing support and guidance.Ultimately, Jim encourages a nuanced approach to leadership, incorporating elements of civility, respect, and accountability. They stress the necessity of balancing empathy with discipline and holding individuals accountable for their actions. Despite initial reservations, the episode concludes with an affirmation of the value of gentle leadership when understood and applied effectively.

Welcome to 2024. We are going to kick it off with lots of isms. Shedding the collective dumpster fire of 2023, much of what I've been hearing is that people are looking to start anew in 2024. Again. Just like last year. And the year before. I'm seeing a recurring theme. The theme … and this is something I've been dealing with … is that there seems to be a cynicism infiltrating much of the conversation style over the past six months to a year. On a recent run (a Dopey run, more on that in the show) - I was reminded that much of our perspective is impacted by the experiences around us. But our perspective needs to be protected at all times - it's what makes us unique - and while it should evolve, I would argue a healthy perspective is one that embraces optimism and hope. It's what drives us to accomplish and try more. A lyric from Vinegar Hill by Black ‘47 stuck with me on the run: “When faith is gone, all hope is lost.” And we have lost faith. I'm not making a religious stance - although you can take it that way. But we have lost faith beyond that standard view. We have lost faith in our institutions. Our educational system. Our neighbors and what we believe is true. And, we have lost faith in ourselves.We don't have all the answers - and that's OK. But as the world continues to evolve around us - our belief system - our faith in ourselves and our ability to get shit done - is what's going to drive us out of whatever dark place cynicism takes us. Skepticism is good - I encourage it. It shows we think. But skepticism evolves to cynicism too easily, and we must be aware that without faith in ourselves and others; without hope that things will be better, without a recognition that we are capable of writing our script - we are going to be spending our days in a negative tornado of cynicism. It can start small - more on the show about how a short run changes my entire thinking paradigm - but it's necessary if we are going to be successful in 2024. Enjoy the week!

From Thoreau's thoughts at Walden Pond to responding to macro levels of change - we are all pining for simplicity.

Today the topic is time – how we think about it, frame it and manage it.  Productivity appears to be the name of the game today, which becomes an incredibly frustrating aspect to focus on. We never feel productive enough, the end of our work time seems so far in the future, and our fleeting day to day never really meets our expectations to catch up to our long term goals and priorities.  But when we think about a 30 year (or 20, 15, 10 or 5 year) horizon, we can break things down into a different sort of framework. When I put a 30 year view, rethought as only 360 months, something changes in the way I approach it.  And when we think about where we wish to be, recognizing progress is an important part of making sure we are heading in a direction that is meaningful to us. Our context changes over time, our views and priorities shift, and a constant dialogue with ourselves is vital as we look to progress and push forward.  From goal setting to ambition – this podcast covers the loop, and gives you a number of different questions to ask yourself as you move forward. Enjoy! Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. You can also style every aspect of this content in the module Design settings and even apply custom CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings. Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you, episode 121. It's good to see everybody again or hear everybody again, or just know that you're listening. It's a wonderful thing. Today we're talking about time in this fun, philosophical kind of, well, not really philosophical, but kind of philosophical way, um,  time management. It's almost a new way to think about time management and a little perspective on time and how I feel like there is so much, especially from a social media standpoint, so much pressure to take action and do all of these things and things are changing so quickly, and how do I do this and how do I do that? And I have to get things done, and I have to do all of these things. And perspective really helps as we go through these types of things. 0:46 And so,  you know,  I was talking to the team, um,  and I've talked to clients about this too,  you know, oh,  do I really want to do this job for another 30 years and what do I have? And I'm only 35, I wanna go to 65, or I'm 45 and I've only got 20 years, or whatever it is. Um,  and there's,  you know,  30 years seems like so far away, especially if you're in your early thirties and it's,  you know,  double the life that you've already had. And it seems,  you know,  think about all the experiences you've had over time, and there's a lot of time that you can, you think you have a lot of time, I guess. And then there's this other side of the coin saying, you never know when, when the, the good world is gonna spit you out. And,  you know,  you're only on this rock for a short amount of time, and how do you, how do you get more done with the time that you have? 1:30 And it's more pressure we put on ourselves. And,  you know,  when I think about a 30 year time horizon, it's only 360 months. Um,  and when I think about 30 years, there's only 360 months. It, it kind of says it's not a lot of time. 1:46 And,  you know,  my, my daughter, she's coming up on six, so she's five now. That's what, 60 months? 60 months are gone already outta those 360. So that's, um, you know,  so how are you thinking about your time horizon? 1:58 That's what I wanna talk about today. Is it a 30 year horizon, a 20 year horizon, a 10 year horizon? Uh,  I'm 45, 44, something like that, somewhere in my mid forties. And so I probably have, like, you know,  we always, in work, we think about our horizon to the age of 65. 2:18 Um,  and that's a built in assumption that we have, right? Oh,  I have to do this until I'm 65 and then I can retire. And, uh,  I got 20 years left and, and maybe 15, maybe whatever. I like to think about it until I'm 60. 2:31 The youngest of our kids is gonna be 18, close the doors, I get freedom and life is gonna be good . Um,  but the 65 thing is interesting. If, if,  you know  why we picked 65 as a retirement age, and I learned this a long time ago. There was this,  you know,  retirement coaching thing that I had done. And, um, you know,  the age of 65 came. 2:54 Here's a quick history lesson. The age of 65 as a retirement came from Adovan Bismark back in and fun knowledge aspect of it. The reason they picked the age of 65, Adovan, Bismarck wanted in a position Germany as like the premier, um,  cosmopolitan place in Europe. And so he came out saying, Hey, if you work until you're 65, once you're 65, the state will take care of you. And it was supposed to be this nice big thing and,  you know,  look how, look how forward thinking we are. 3:20 But the reason they picked the age of 65 is something like,  less than 3% of people lift past that. And so it wasn't gonna be this big financial impact on, on the business, but it, or on the, on the state. So it took this big, it was, it was more of like,  look at this good pr we could get out of it. It's not really gonna impact us, but it took fire and say, oh,  we can work until 65 and, and do it. 3:39 That assumption's going away.  You know,  as you look at people who get to the age of 65, they still have plenty of value. They still have lots of things to do. They still want to work. They still need some kind of purpose. Um,  and when we get to 65, you'll find that there's just a lot more to be done. And you're not just going out to pastor and you're not just gonna die in 10 years and, and do whatever. People are living longer and everything else. 4:01 So, um,  when we think about time on the long-term horizon, uh,  I heard a good quote the other day. Some guy named Kevin Kelly, I have no idea who he is, not the Kevin Kelly. I know, I actually know a couple of Kevin Kelly's, but none of those, I don't know who Kevin Kelly is, but I heard this quote. Um,  we tend to overestimate what we could do in the short term and underestimate what we can do in the long term. 4:23 And that's,  you know,  when we think about saving for retirement and, and all of these things, we kind of, it sneaks up on us, right? All of these things sneak up on us. Say, where did the time go? And we need different mindsets to accommodate for this. 4:36 We need, um, you know,  a long-term kind of vision, a, a short-term vision, a, a one year vision, a quarterly vision, a monthly, a weekly whatever it is, a daily. Um,  and we have to change our mindsets on each of these because who we are as an individual actually changes.  You know,  one of the things I learned when I was becoming a coach is,  you know,  you set all these goals for yourself and you make a little bit of progress on one of these goals. You actually become, if your behavior changes, which it will, you actually become a different person, you're gonna make different types of choices over time as you become a different human being and a different person. And context changes, the world changes. 5:18 You get kids, you get,  you know,  you buy a home, whatever, you, you get all of these types of things. And so we have to do this constant reevaluation on what's relevant and what's important to us. And part of that reevaluation is to recognize the progress that we've actually made. And we lose sight of all the things that we've accomplished over a period of time. And, and when I, I speak to clients who are frustrated with, um, you know,  20 years at corporate, and who am I and where am I going? And there's never a discussion on the progress that they've made. 5:50 And that's usually where I like to start.  You know,  let's talk about where you were and, and where you've become. Mm-hmm. Um,  and when we look at our to-do lists and all the things that's not getting done,  you know,  just throw it away. Um,  it's so cathartic to just throw out half your list. Um,  there was always this lifetime goal to, to be able to speak French and I, I don't think I'll ever speak French, and that's okay, . 6:13 Um,  because here's what happens.  You know,  there, there's a lot of research on deadlines, um,  and we put these arbitrary deadlines on ourselves and, and sometimes it helps you take action, right? And that's the point of a deadline. We, we set this deadline, and I'm a procrastinator and I get this, this, this little spark of creativity whenever something's due the next day. And I, I've been thinking about, and that's just how I like to operate. 6:35 And I, I could do things really quickly and really well, um,  with these deadlines. However, pushing things that we don't really want to do or that aren't really going to happen to the, whatever this task is to a deadline, it creates stress. So some research finds that it lessens creativity because of these things that you don't want to do. Um,  and so how do you just get them off and get them off of your list? 6:58 Whether you just take whatever short term action you have to do to push it back, or do you actually change it, um,  or delete it or, or whatever it is that you want to do. So we are people, we are, we become what we prioritize over time and what's important for us and what's a priority for us, changes over time. And so when we think about I've got 360 months, 240 months, whatever it is, it gives you a different kind of, oh, you know  what, in five months could I get this kind of progress? And what kind of progress am I looking towards,  you know,  some bigger goal of whatever it is that I wish to do. And, um,  one of the books that I always like to read, I probably read it annually or at least I try to, is called the War of Art. And I like the War of Art. It's by a guy named Steven Presfield, and he wrote it for writers in terms of getting past writer's block. And I, I feel like it's, when we think about progress and what we need to do and what we wish to do and what we hope to do and all of these types of things, um,  he has something, he, he calls the resistance. 8:03 We always have a reason why we can't take action on some of the things that we actually want to take action on. Work is more important, or this thing comes in, or we've got this stupid shit on instant,  you know,  social media, whatever. We're watching these videos, all these things could fill our time, the new Netflix series, whatever it is. And some of those are good in their place, right? Sometimes we need to just check out and do that. 8:25 But, um,  if we think about these things as just resistance to what it is that we're looking to accomplish over the long term, preventing us from making the progress that we wish to make. I just met a woman the other night. I was doing some speech at a local library who's been wanting to write a book. She's probably in her early seventies. 8:41 And she, I wrote all these different things and I haven't, I said, well, why don't you just write it? And she's got some kind of block of resistance, um,  whether it's fear of what other people will see or what whatever. Um,  and so when we think about our long-term priorities and what short-term steps can we take to get there, and that different type of mindset, um,  is an important exercise to go through. And it's almost like a weekly or a monthly kind of conversation that you have with yourself is, am I making the progress on the person that I wish to be? And if not, what do I have to change? 9:13 Right? It's the happiness equation. Happiness equation are expectations times satisfaction equals happiness.  You know,  most people when they say they're not happy, they're actually not satisfied. And when they say they're not satisfied, they look externally and they say, well, I'm not satisfied cuz this person's doing this and workplace isn't giving me this and, uh,  blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But they're never talking about the steps that they could take or the progress that they made. 9:34 And so when we think about how to take action on progress that you could do, the first question is, do you need to, um,  we crave instant gratification. We, we crave,  you know,  this, this, um,  idea that,  you know,  I work hard and I should get something. Um,  but most of us don't really know what working hard really means, if I'm gonna be honest. Um,  and it's a psycho, it's a real psychological challenge. 10:00 Long term goals are a psychological game that you have to play with yourself. It's a, it's a philosophical game in terms of what are the, what are the real hard questions that we should be asking ourselves? And, um,  yes, deadlines are important, but you have to hold yourself accountable to the things that you wanna prioritize. And that's kind of the message that we have to do when we think about time. There is an ongoing dynamic, long-term versus short-term. There was a may he rest in peace, uh,  Peterson, his last name was Peterson. 10:30 He used to be the head of executive coaching at Google. He spoke at one of our conferences and, and I may have shared this on the podcast before, but he had this grid of questions that you could ask yourself, and he shared it with us and said that we could share it. I give him credit whenever I do share it. Um,  where each day you asked, did I accomplish what I need to accomplish today? And what could I have done better? Right? 10:49 Two simple questions, takes two seconds. But then he is got a weekly question, similar vein this week and next week, monthly question, quarterly question, annual question, tri-annual question, decade questions. And when you get to those types of decade questions, it's, am I doing the things that I wish to do? Am I the person that I wish to be? How can I disrupt myself and how can I question my assumptions? 11:11 And these are questions that we should be,  you know,  put ourselves into this system where it forces us to recognize the progress that we made to date. But then we could say, all right, this is where I wish to be in a year, six months, or whatever it is. And then what are my,  you know,  what do I, what decision do I have to make today? What does that have to be done in a week? 11:30 And, and all of that. So, um,  when we think about time management, when we think about doing time, when we think about responding to time and, and making sense of purpose and all this shit that we like to talk about, um,  time management has its place, but often we think about it too tactically in terms of, I have to get these things off of a to-do list. Time management also is about recognizing progress and recognizing a bigger picture. And when we think about ambition and when we think about where we wish to go and what's important and what's priority, what do we believe?  You know,  you hear me talk about what do we believe all the time? These are our discussions that we have to have with ourselves. 12:07 Otherwise, um,  time management and Teslas and everything will burn you and they'll burn you out. And,  you know,  360 months, 30 years is a long time. If I go,  you know,  I've got 360 months until I'm 75, that's wild. Um,  now what am I gonna do to make 'em count in a way that, that I'm gonna be proud of? 12:25 And and part of that is work. Part of that is,  you know,  when we think about work and, and the work that we do and how ambition is going out of, out of the workplace, there is work funds, other things, right? And, and so how do you fill your life with those types of things, not to be too kind of hippie and theoretical and blah, blah, blah,  you know  what I mean? Um,  so anyway, that's my fun kind of exercise to think about is, is what does time mean to you and what are the long-term and short-term angles that, that you get to play with and, and struggle with? 12:55 And, and just put a reminder in your calendar, put it in your phone, right? Ask yourself these types of questions. And I'll put, I'll put, um,  Mr. Peter, I forget his first name, unfortunately it's not Doug Peterson. 13:05 It's, um,  I'll find it, but I'll put it on the website or maybe I'll link to it with, with the post. Um,  these are good questions to ask yourself in terms of are you progressing in the wish in the way that you wish to progress? And when we think about that happiness equation,  you know,  expectations, where do you expect to be? And are you satisfied with what you've done to get there? 13:24 Did you do your best? And if one of those things, if the answer is no, then you have, that's an accountability measure to say,  you know  what, it's not a happiness thing because we think other people have to make us happy. It's about satisfaction, it's about accountability. It's about what decisions can you make today because the person you become tomorrow is a result of the decisions that you have to make today. And that's on time and that's fun. And so, have a wonderful week. Think about your time, and I look forward to speaking to everybody soon. Have a great week. Thanks.

My commentary on my own mental health has been shared before, from my philosophy on it, to my own challenges with dark places and how to respond to massive levels of change. As it's Mental Health Awareness month, I figured I would add one element to that mix: the reminder that our own mental health is our own responsibility.  Mental health means so many things to so many people that there is no one single solution to solving it, and unsolicited advice on wellness, without your context, doesn't do anyone any favors.  We have so many things done for us in our life, that we often forget we still have to take action for our own development and wellness. If we wait for other people to step up for us, we will find we don't get what we really need or want.  More on the podcast – I hope you enjoy it – and, as always, I'm here to chat. Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. 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Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast 3, 2, 1. Welcome to Bellwether episode 120. It's Mental Health Awareness Month. So let's talk about mental health. It's been a topic of mine a bunch. If you've listened to the, the podcast in the past, if you've heard the Ted Talk, if you heard any of those things,  you know,  mental health is one of my core components of, of how to remain relevant, I guess I could say in, in the new economy. And so, um,  it's an important month. 0:29 I think it's an important thing to, to prioritize and it's an important thing to discuss and it's an important time to remind. And I love the fact that it happens in May because the weather's beautiful and you get outside, at least here in the Northeast, and you go outside and you kinda want to be healthy. You want to be well, you want to do all of these things. And particularly right now, there is a need for, for significant mental health work amongst all of us. Now, I will not say what you're supposed to do cuz everybody's very quick  to tell you how to be mentally well. Everybody's got their opinions on how you should operate on the things that you can do all these solutions without the context of what makes you so spectacular and wonderful. 1:15 And so I'm not gonna go into that today. I will, however, uh,  talk to you about some of my particular challenges. I will talk about the framework that I use to kind of get myself out of these ruts and to make sure that I'm maintaining some kind of mental wellness and, and continually discuss and converse with myself in this kind of crazy way. But it's fun. 1:33 Um,  but I definitely want to touch on it because it is so important. Because the struggle is real for many, many people, especially my clients. Uh,  corporations are trying to do what they can, or at least the people in corporations are trying to do what they can to help their people at work. Uh,  but at the end of the day, we're all responsible for, for the bed that we lie in. 1:52 And so, um,  I will kick that off by saying we have a responsibility to ourselves to be mentally well. And this is not,  you know,  we know it, we hear it, and it's not an easy thing to do, especially with the world changing and workplace changing and all this noise coming in from social media and this noise coming in from the news and this noise coming in from everywhere else where anxiety is just piling up and piling up and piling up. Um,  so it's incredibly difficult for us to focus on it when so many other things are going on. Now, when we think about life in general, and I tell this to, to corporate when we're doing workshops and everything else, we are what we prioritize and we can only prioritize so many things. Like  at work, if you wanna prioritize mental health, then how is that kicking off every meeting with a discussion about mental health, whatever it is, right? You don't have to have a full discussion, but  you know,  what are you doing to be well this week and what are you doing to be well this week? 2:48 And what challenges are you working on? And, um,  there are ways to do that in an appropriate kind of work appropriate way, but we have to do that for ourselves. Now, it doesn't mean,  you know,  when we say we are what we prioritize with the result of our decisions, with the result of the work we do ourselves. Um,  it doesn't mean it's all or nothing, right? And a lot of times we hear,  you know,  I work in a toxic workplace, so for my mental health, I'm leaving. 3:10 It's not this all or nothing component. And oftentimes when we think about what's driving our negative mental health, we're so focused externally at blaming other things. We're not focused on the decisions that we're making and the opportunities we're not taking to get ourselves to where it is that we need to go. Um,  we are the result of our decisions of our internal, it's called an internal dialogue. What, what's the conversation you're having inside of your head based on what do you need? What do you need in this particular moment? And  you know,  the framework I laid out in the TED talk, the physical, the mental, the social areas of preparation for change, it's the same. 3:49 And you could also argue a financial one. Um,  it's the same with our, with our overall health in terms of not just preparing for change, but in terms of how are we living our lives,  you know,  from a physical standpoint, are you doing what you need to do? Cause that impacts your mental health from a social standpoint. Who are the people you're surrounding yourself that impacts your mental health? It's this kind of nice little web grid, um,  however you wanna call it, right? 4:12 Something. It's a system. We'll call it a framework, we'll call it whatever it is that we want. But from a mental health standpoint, from a mental health focus, uh,  there are three categories that I like to put in. One is the self-love aspect, two is the self-care aspect, and three is the belief system. And these are my three, as I was figuring out a long time ago what my mental health needed. And, and  you know,  I, I did podcasts on this back during the pandemic. Um,  how I quit drinking and, and how that benefited my mental health and how I needed to quit drinking in order to do that. Um,  how the Ironman helped me go into a dark place and pull myself out of it. 4:54 Um,  and going through these exercises of what, what system do you need bespoke to you, you have to fill in these gaps, right? Self-love on what you think about yourself. Nobody can tell you what to think about yourself. And it's a challenge to do this because we know all of our dark secrets. 5:10 We know the, the, the fears and the failures and the opportunities we didn't take and the mistakes we made and the relationships we broke. And, um,  and that's a painful, difficult conversation to have. Um,  but it's also a good conversation to have so that you can embrace who you actually are. And the, the Russo quote I give everywhere, I've probably said it a hundred times on this podcast that he wrote in a letter to his friend, how can one be satisfied with anything in life if they're not satisfied with the one person that they can never be separated from? 5:41 And that's you. And we've got this happiness challenge, we've got a satisfaction challenge. We've got,  you know,  am I making right? Choices, challenge, and you always make right choices, right? 5:51 It's based on the context that you have and you're making the best decisions that you can in the moment. And when we're comfortable with ourselves and loving ourselves and recognizing that we do have value and articulating that value to ourselves, we don't have to shout from rooftops. So be being comfortable with who we are as an individual is one fundamental step. And that takes work. It's not easy, right? 6:13 Because we all have, I've got dark demons, you don't even want to know my demons. But it, and it took me a long time to get through that. And it took me,  you know,  a lot of, um,  thought and challenging myself. And,  you know,  just because it happened in the past doesn't mean it has to happen in the future. And, and you can change your perception of yourself over time, but you have to get this dialogue going with yourself. From there, once  you know  who you are and you're comfortable in embracing the fact that you have imperfections, everybody's got them, then we move into the self-care, which again, is bespoke to you. What do you need? 6:45 What do you need in any particular moment to help you with your self-love to help you with whatever, uh,  anxieties being thrown your way, whatever macro change is happening in the world, or financial challenges we have, or, um,  stress from the kids or stress from work, whatever it is, right? The stress is coming in from everywhere. Stress is our biggest challenge. What's the care that you need? 7:08 Is it, do you need to meditate? Meditate? Do you need to go for a walk, walk? Do you need, uh,  some time in the woods? Go spend a week in the woods. What, whatever it is for you,  you know  what gives you a really good charge? 7:20 You know,  what regenerates you in a really meaningful way? And again, it goes back to the prioritization. How do you prioritize that? Also, not easy, right? 7:32 We have obligations, we have family, we have work, we have all of these types of things. It doesn't mean that you have to leave all of it behind and go out to the desert and meditate for a week, but there are little ways that we can do that, um,  where we can really focus on what it is that we need. How do we use that to, to embrace ourselves and, and get ourselves back on the right path? It's also not a quick fix. 7:54 It doesn't, some, it's not something that just happens,  you know,  once you do, oh,  I'll meditate for five minutes and everything's good. Uh,  but generally what it is in terms of self-care is it, it balances out that stress to say,  you know  what? I just need a 30 minute recharge, or I need a two hour recharge, or whatever it is. Um,  that's what we all need on a very regular basis, like  almost daily. What is it that you need to kind of recharge? And, um,  if it doesn't happen daily, it should happen multiple times a week. 8:20 And then finally you've got your belief system is what do you believe? This allows us to love ourselves. It allows us to be open to the fact that we might be wrong. It allows us to recognize that we don't have to be right all the time. That a lot of the stress and anxiety I deal with, um,  with clients or help them deal with is this desire to be right all the time and correct people and defend these ideas that they don't necessarily actually believe. 8:44 And it's a, that's just a form of anxiety that nobody really talks about. And so when you recognize that a belief system is just beliefs and you understand the questions you can ask to say,  you know  what, maybe I don't actually believe this, or if I do believe it and you believe something different, that's okay. So having a dynamic belief system in place, which also is an ongoing malleable thing that takes constant work, these are fun discussion frameworks that we can go through and challenge ourselves every day. We could pick a little tiny thing and learn about ourselves to allow us to really take responsibility and control of, of what it is and, and what we want to do. So this has to be bespoke to us, okay? 9:25 This is your framework, self-love, self-care, belief system. And in order to have these really, really good internal conversations, it helps to surround ourselves with, uh,  people who can help. It helps to surround us with, uh,  people who have different ideas than you, right? There's a, there's a lot of talk about male mental health in the workplace, um,  which is good because men just don't like to talk about it. Uh,  I don't like that we're telling everyone that they have to talk about it, right? Everyone's got an opinion on what you need to do for your mental health. 9:56 Um,  but I will say to the guys, um,  sometimes it helps to have a female perspective or a different ethnicity or whatever this,  you know,  whatever this different kind of view is to recognize that it's not all on your shoulders, right? And, and people are dealing, everybody's dealing with some shit. Everybody's dealing with difficult things. And when we understand that, it takes the pressure off a little bit, right? 10:16 We only have this short period of time on the planet. We only,  you know,  each day is 24 hours in a day. There's only so much you could do.  You know,  there's a cathartic exercise to say, what am I actually responsible for? 10:24 And what am I holding onto that I don't have to really hold onto? Um,  mental health comes in so many different buckets. There's,  you know,  drug abuse, alcohol abuse and all that. That's a mental health challenge. There's the insecurity, the anxiety, there is the stress from work, the stress from, um, uh,  from change, just,  you know,  what's AI going to do? And, and we question ourselves as human beings and what our value is. 10:49 And when we can anchor ourselves in order to find value, in order to articulate value to ourselves, um,  we have to take ownership of ourselves and our response mechanisms. And we have to say, and I mentioned this in in the TED Talk, many of us don't go from adolescents to adulthood. We don't make that transition. And it's very difficult to do it because everything is done for us today. But the difference, a therapist told me this once, the difference between adolescents and adulthood is in adolescence, people do things for you. 11:22 Adulthood is when you take responsibility for your actions. And many of us, we don't have to make that transition. And that's damaging to us. And it, it's this, it drives addition. It's this unseen kind of anxiety to, to where we feel like we're not in control. And it's because we're not actually taking responsibility for who we are as a human being and the choices we're making and the decisions we're making and all of that. Um,  now I've had my problems. 11:45 This was eye-opening for me, right? Where it's,  you know  what, we talk about all of this stuff, but we don't actually take action. And I actually had to take action and I finally said,  you know  what? I'm gonna stop drinking and I'm gonna do this and I'm gonna do that. And when we do things every day or every week or every month, we make these decisions to say, this is what I need to do. It's not about saying I can't do anything else, but you do it within the context of the world that you have around you. And those are the decisions that we have to do. 12:14 So mental health, um,  means so many things to so many different people and there's no one single solution to solving it. But it's that dynamic discussion with ourselves on what you need, the decisions you're making. Um,  everything in life is a choice. Everything is is a choice. Waking up and going to work in the morning is technically a choice. Waking up next to your spouse every morning is technically a choice. Um,  being a parent to your kids is technically a choice, right? You can abdicate these responsibilities whether you like it. 12:51 I mean, it's not a nice thing to do . Um,  but ultimately it's a choice. And,  you know,  I choose to be a father every day. I choose to be married to Gabby every day. I choose to do this work every day because I know it's good for me. And how do you go through,  you know,  what is it that's giving you some particular challenge right now? 13:10 For me, going back to the parenting theme, my house is a mess. I've got two kids. I love being organized. My house is a shit show right now, and it drives me nuts. I can't walk throughout my house without stepping on a toy or something like that. Drives me bananas. My decisions right are all right. What do I have to get cleaned up in order to kind of clear my workspace and all those other types of things so I can focus and I can do whatever it is that I need. 13:33 It could be anything, right? But we have to be hardcore reflective on what it is that we need in a particular moment so that we're then able to make the decisions that we have to make so that we can progress and make the decisions and take the actions that we actually have to take. This is something, um,  that is a forever exercise for you. Um,  and I love the Oscar wild quote quote, the aim of life is self-development because we've forgotten the greatest responsibility, which is a responsibility to ourselves. And that is it. That is ultimately what life is about. 14:05 We have a choice, we have a decision, and we have a set amount of time where we can enjoy each moment.  You know,  I was talking to someone, well, this is almost like my dating kind of analogy is, you go on a first date and then you decide if you want to go on a second date with that person. And if the second date goes well, you decide if you wanna go on a third date with that person. You decide if you wanna go on a fourth date with that person. You go to work each day, your first day, you're like,  all right, I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna go back and I'm gonna go back. 14:31 If at any point you don't wanna go on a fifth date with that person, you end the relationship. That's it. And you make the changes that you have to make. It's the same with anything else that you're working on is,  you know,  how do you enjoy your particular moment? How do you enjoy the family? How do you enjoy the work? How do you, those are decisions that you have to, to work on. And it's not easy. 14:51 It's difficult because other people make it difficult, right? I'm more far more introverted than I am extroverted. So I will tell you, going into a group of people generally makes things worse,  than better. But sometimes it could give you a real charge if  you know  how to enjoy the people around you and the moment that you're in and what you're doing. 15:07 And, and that's a challenge that you have to, how do you enjoy this next hour of your day? What's, and we do things we don't want to do because we have to do them, right? We have obligations. How do you enjoy it and how do you figure that out? 15:20 So mental health is, um,  it's big and it's, I I think it's a, a great time in May to reflect on what it is that you're working on and, and your particular challenges. And, um,  and as always, I'm gonna be here for you if, if there's anything you want to talk about, even just for someone to listen to you vent, uh,  the amount of people who call me every day just to vent. Um,  it's why I can't get any of my work done, but it's, um,  but I know it's meaningful and I know it's helpful and it's, it's, it's very, very good. And so find your people to help you with this. 15:51 Um,  but you're ultimately the person who's gotta make those types of decisions. So good luck with it. I'm here to help. Um,  I've got resources on the website. There's all kinds of stuff that you could do and, and just kind of reflect and, and go through those, those types of exercises. So, um,  as always, reach out if there's anything I can do to be helpful for you. 16:08 Enjoy your month, enjoy the month of May, and enjoy being mentally well and enjoy the fun. I mean, it's, it's super fun to go through what I tell people at the beginning of a coaching engagement. It's super fun because you get to work on yourself and what, what's cooler than working on, on yourself and, and making you the center of attention for yourself, cuz you are the most important thing to yourself. And that's good. 16:29 And so do it. Take care of it. Love yourself, do good things. I am here if you need me. 16:33 I will talk to everybody soon. And next week we're gonna talk about time. We're gonna go through the time exercise. Do  you know  30 years is only 360 months. It's not a lot of time. 16:46 Um,  it flies just 360 months. And if you were to kind of anchor that out, I'm a planner. Uh,  we're gonna go through that kind of fun time exercise and we'll talk about that next week. So, uh,  I look forward to chatting everybody soon. And thanks for your time. Chat soon.

Like many other buzzwords, the word ‘empathy' has been thrown around so much that it has begun to mean something entirely different. When we hear the word empathy, we often think it to be something that is entirely positive and helpful, but what if this is not the case? In reading Paul Bloom's Against Empathy, I've found that much of the assumption around empathy can be misplaced and misunderstood.  Empathy has its place. And, of course, it has value – when put in the appropriate context. But ultimately, what many executives I speak with are finding (paired with very interesting research), a misinterpretation of empathy is forcing us to lose sight of a bigger picture. We are so focused on an individual that we can make irrational decisions that aren't beneficial to a larger initiative or organization.  From actually promoting biases (we are empathic with our own type of people) to innumeracy (this one person is more important than the 100 or 1000 others) to increasing our stress levels (increased empathy has shown higher suffering later in the week), our perspective can be skewed with too much empathy. And with organizations going full-tilt in training and learning initiatives towards promoting empathy, businesses can be hurt and negatively impacted due to this misunderstanding.  Empathy is good from a moral and humanity perspective, but it must be paired with logic, reasoning and compassion. Our learning and development initiatives need to provide empathy training within context, and teach the additional skill sets with it.  As the world changes so quickly, and the very important recognition of the human beings that we work with, we have an obligation, from a business focus, to differentiate logic and emotion, and use these inputs to inform effective decisions to help businesses survive. Those that don't will surely be left behind.  More is on the podcast, and it's a fun exercise to think, ourselves, about our own ability to feel, to give weight and compassion to others. Rather than blindly follow a basic learning agenda, we all know that context is vital as we build our own philosophy on interpersonal activity and relationships. I'll leave that as your thought of the week! Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. 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Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast Hey folks, welcome to Bellwether episode 119. Today we're talking about empathy and the case against it. , if  you know  me, pause for a second. Did he say that right? Did he say what? I think he's gonna say, no empathy. No empathy. 0:18 If  you know  me,  you know  me well, um, you know,  my feelings on buzzwords and how generally when something is everywhere, it's often misinterpreted and taught in the wrong kind of way. And we, we think about things and we overdo it. We completely overdo these things. And I read an interesting book recently by Paul Bloom, uh,  I think it's called Against Empathy. 0:40 Um,  and it makes a really compelling case. And I, I instantly went to the workplace and, and the things going on in the workplace about how, um,  we're, we're, we're teaching and pushing too much empathy, that it's affecting the way our businesses can move forward. And, um,  and so like all the buzzwords, humility, vulnerability, um,  resiliency, all of these have been, have been just thrown around so much that they've lost their meaning and they start to mean something entirely different. Um,  and, and we often think of it as,  you know,  naturally positive and helpful, but as the meaning changes, we don't really mesh those two things together. 1:19 And so, um,  empathy has its place. I have to start off, empathy has its place, but when it comes to being a good person, when it comes to making good decisions, we need to think of something. We need to use something different besides empathy. And one of the, I mean, the biggest challenge I have with empathy is a lot of it becomes down to the word should. I think the word should be eliminated from the, the English language. 1:42 It's so judgmental. And, and,  you know,  to say that you should do something, it should be something, uh, you know,  I hate that and, and, um,  can't stand it. So I, I don't like to use that, but a lot of empathy. Um,  but a lot of, a lot of these buzzwords should, isn't a buzzword, but humility, resiliency, empathy, vulnerability, all of these, I mean, those are kind of like the main four. 2:06 I'm sure there are others. Um,  and they just get blasted. People say, oh,  this is a buzzword, and let me do a, a, a training on it and a coaching on it. And it's just the surface level. 2:15 I, I read psychology today and I'm gonna put it out. And, um,  there's no full understanding of what these words really mean, and it leads to negative results. And that's what I think is happening to empathy. And it's beyond the workplace. It's,  you know,  it's in society and everything else. Um,  so let's talk about, let's, I guess I should kick it off by telling you that empathy is good, but there are many meanings of empathy. 2:39 And empathy is good when it's contained within its compartment, I guess we'll call it, we'll call it a compartment. Um,  some people would say it means kindness and goodness in a broad sense, and I might agree with that. Um,  some believe it involves understanding people. And, and there's a morality point of it. Um,  the way Paul Bloom defined it in his book against Empathy, um,  he said it was feeling the feelings of other people. 3:16 And I have a quote here. It says, by empathy, I mean feeling the feelings of other people. So if you're in pain and I feel your pain, I am feeling empathy toward you. If you're being anxious, I pick up your anxiety. 3:27 If you're sad, I pick up your sadness. I'm being empathic. And that's different from compassion. Compassion means I give your concern weight, I value it, I care about you, but I don't necessarily pick up your feelings. 3:38 And this is an important distinction. Um,  when we think about the workplace, and we think about beyond the workplace, actually, we're all human beings. We're all interact with community. I don't know why I always say it's for the workplace, but it's, um,  when you give someone someone's concerns weight, and you show value, and you show respect, that's compassion. 3:58 We don't need to take this work on ourselves, and we need to compartmentalize it within the bigger picture. And I'm gonna give a few examples of how empathy can be negative, um,  and misinterpreted and, and do that. But  you know,  initially, right, we pick up someone's anxiety, we pick up someone's negativity, we pick up someone's sadness, we try to do all of these types of things. And, um,  first of all, you can't. 4:26 You can't, right? All you could do, one of my favorite sayings is we don't see things as they are. We see things as we are. So we can't really fully pick up the feelings of anyone else. 4:35 1 All we're doing is punishing ourselves when we see someone else have a tragedy or a problem or a challenge or something like that. Um,  so when we take a look at the studies, one, it increases stress on you, the empathic individual. And I, I am an empathic individual. I know what you are thinking.  You know,  there's a thing called cognitive empathy, which we'll talk about in a little bit. It's like,  I can kind of guess what you're thinking. We're the only species on the planet that could do that. 5:04 1 It's kind of neat. Growing up in a family of six kids, you kind of know, you get feelings down pretty quickly. Um,  so when we think about the studies one, um,  it increases stress studies who are shown empathic, uh,  items at the beginning of the week. So increase suffering later in the week rather than good items. We seek out the negative. So when we're teaching people to be more empathic and telling people to be more empathic, we're actually telling them to look for suffering and pain. 5:36 So that's not a good thing, obviously. Um,  studies that show when, when coming to making decisions, empathy is the spotlight that, uh,  helps you focus on one small inconsequential thing while missing the bigger picture. So your decision making is affected. Um,  we have this inability to pair,  you know,  it's emotional. 5:59 Empathy is emotional. And when I do a lot of work with my clients, we're talking about the logic versus emotion kind of conundrum, right? What makes sense? Where's the reasoning behind that? Um,  but stress is emotional and everything else as well. 6:11 And, and, um,  how do we avoid letting this emotion, takeover fairness and, and smartness and, and reasoning and, and everything else. So, um,  so there's a lot of studies that show that empathy used in the wrong context can be negative. And I'm sure if you paused and thought for a minute about the misery that is your life, , um,  the, the stress that we feel, I'm sure you could probably make a link, um,  to empathy driving a lot of those things up, up the channel. Now, it doesn't mean don't care about other people, it's not what I'm saying, of course. Um,  but let's go through some of these. 6:56 I've got a few categories, um,  that Sade put in, and it, it's really, really good. Uh,  first, your bias steers your empathy, um,  which is wild. So most of the people pushing for empathy are also the ones speaking a lot about unconscious bias and all of these biases that we have in the workplace. Empathy is really tied up a lot in the diversity and inclusion thing. Um,  and it should not be okay. 7:26 Um,  and we see that a lot.  You know,  we saw that with, um,  I always go back to George Floyd because that's when it was just so visible and, and loud. Um,  and the discussion was there. White people were actually paying attention. 7:41 So I always kind of go back to that. Um,  but we, when we talk about empathy, we're empathic to, to people like us, right? We are empathic to people. We, we've got our little communities and we've got the people that look like us, and we've got all those types of things. And so when we tie it up with diversity and inclusion and empathy and everything else, the people on the receiving end of your empathy almost want to throw it out the window and say, you don't understand what I feel. 8:08 You don't understand these types of things. And, um,  and we saw that with George Floyd and all the white people were trying to be empathic to black people. And, and , in conversations I had with, with black people that I didn't know, they were like,  shut the hell up, right? This isn't like,  you don't get it, you just don't get it, and you're not gonna get it because you haven't grown up and lived it. 8:27 And so, um,  we feel less empathy for people who aren't in our own culture because we connect with our, our people, we connect with our fellow humanity, whether it's people of the same language, people of the same skin color, people of the same hair, color, eye color, whatever it is. Like  that's, um,  it doesn't mean that we're disruptive to that, but we're,  you know,  we're social beings and we have our little kind of groups and, and, and we do that. So, um,  people who aren't in our culture, you see tragedy, you see pain, you see all of these types of things, but when they're across the sea, it doesn't really matter to you, right? You see, you get a little bit of sadness, but then you move on with your day, you see it like down the street or with your neighbor, and all of a sudden it's a different kind of level. So, um,  when we think of empathy, it's, it's generally focused on a single person, one person where I'm feeling what you're feeling and that one person is a spot, gets a spotlight on them, and you get this one big light on this one person, but there are so many people not included in the spotlight. 9:35 And so that bias that I is naturally built into that to say, I'm just focused on you. I don't care about anybody else. Those people out of the spotlight are very relevant as well. Which brings us to the next challenge. 9:46 Beyond bias is en numeracy. Because we only care about one person, it forces us to not care about the a hundred or a thousand or, um,  bigger picture people. It forces us to make bad decisions, maybe unethical decisions. Um,  there's this constant, and I think about this in terms of corporate, right? 10:05 And, and kind of an example that's not really about empathy, but it's about more about the one person type of thing. Um,  there's this consistent pendulum swing at work. We get power to the people, um,  power to the corporate, power to the people, power to the corporate. And, and what we see now with the people who wanna work from home is saying, I'm more productive. Working from home is, is generally the line that goes, I wanna work from home because I as an individual and more productive, the business wants people back. Because fine, you as an individual in your little silo, magic world may be more productive. The business collectively is not more productive, which is why we want people back in the office. 10:43 And, um,  and just like that, in that same way, empathy focuses on one person, not the many other things that are relevant, not the bigger picture, not, it skews your perspective. It skews your general productivity. It skews your focus to say that this is, we're giving more weight to this one individual than it should probably be. Whereas there is a bigger organization going on, there is a bigger picture going on. And how do we rather than say, I give your concern weight, let me input this into the bigger picture of what the business is. Fine, you wanna work from home, maybe it is two days a week, but there is a bigger picture business picture of doing everything else. Um,  fine. You have this concern or challenge, um,  or sadness or pain or whatever it is. 11:25 I will recognize that I give it weight. Uh,  I feel compassion for you, but at the end of the day, there's a bigger picture than just you. Um,  which is a little dark and, and a difficult way to say it, but it's true. And that's the way to do it. Um,  but there's also another aspect to this in terms of using empathy, um,  to manipulate other people. And that's the one last thing that I'll, I'll throw in before we go on to kind of what to do with, um,  really good empaths. And I've known this from experience because I am a really good empath. Um,  and I never thought about it like this, is, I always used to joke that I can make people do whatever it is that they didn't want to do. Um,  and generally it was around drinking. Like,  I can get, we'll go out, Hey, let's go party hard, let's,  you know,  whatever. Um,  but in this Machiavellian sort of way, really good people at really good empaths can manipulate other people to, to different types of mens. 12:33 Now I've chosen to use my, my wicked powers for good . Um,  not everyone who's an empath has this, right? There are, they call dark empaths, right? And they're high in, they're narcissistic and they're psychopaths and, and whatever. I'm not, I'm not that crazy. 12:48 1 I'm, I'm probably halfway there, but I'm not fully crazy. Um,  but it, there is this phenomenon that, that people can manipulate other people by using empathy to get them to do what they wish them to do. Uh,  and in, in a sense, it's not, empathy is not the opposite of self-interest. It, it's actually very well tied into self-interest. 13:10 Um,  and so that's just an interesting kind of side point just to kind of drive that hammer home on why the empathy thing is misinterpreted. Um,  or at least too big. It's too big. Um,  what are we looking for in an organization, right? 13:22 We, the training that comes on why empathy is so important, and, and we're teaching this to kids and feel the other feelings and everything else. What we want from an organization is we want security. And that you have my back. Um,  not that you feel my feelings, right? I wanna be respected as a human being. I wanna be heard, but I don't want, I, I don't want, um,  pity. I don't want people to say, oh,  I know how you feel because you don't. Um, um,  and so when we think about structuring a culture or raising our children, uh,  how do we, how do we pair this, this fine distinction, um,  in terms of developing our personal cultures around us and developing our leaders and managers at the workplace and, and, and getting our kids raised and and up. 14:13 Um,  what does empathy really mean? And how do you teach a child to recognize someone else's feelings, but not take that on, not take on the feelings, compartmentalize it, recognize it, bigger picture. How do we teach not just empathy, but also logic and reasoning and compassion, right? All of these things go in to understand all of,  you know,  that's fine that you feel this way. 14:42 I recognize that it's a, a challenge and, and everything else. Um,  here's how I may be helpful within the context of something else. Like,  there's, there's a way to do that. We have to give ourselves lanes, um, um,  and what's appropriate, especially in the business sense. 14:54 Cause that's always just where my head is. Um,  but from there we have to review what empathy really means. And, and I do think probably if you were to take a look at your l and d program and what they've got on empathy, you could probably just throw it in the garbage, um,   because we've all sat in these things. Here's my, here's my thing on it. 15:13 And  you know,  I probably shouldn't have waited till the end of this, but like,  my problem is nobody likes these learning and development things that are out there right now because we're being told what to do. We're to being told to be empathic. We're to being told to do this. We're being, we should be this, and you should be that. Nobody wants to be told what they should be. 15:28 And that's what makes it so annoying, and that's why people don't like it. And when we're talking about empathy, what we should be doing is explaining empathy within the context of reason and logic and compassion and everything else, so that people can make their own interpretation of what's appropriate within the context of whatever situation that they're in. And the person teaching it has to understand what the hell they're talking about so that they can answer the questions and do the follow up, and get people to fully understand it so that they can articulate their own individual kind of thing. So that's my, anyway, that, that was just a little aside. Sorry about that. Um,  anyway, have a great week. It's good fodder for thought, right? 16:07 1 And, and I'm, I told my wife I was gonna do this, and sh and she's been challenging me. Everything. She's like,  empathy is amazing. Empathy is so important, and we're all human beings. It's empathy, empathy, empathy. Um,  and we're going toe to toe on it. She's asked me a couple questions I couldn't answer, so I still have my research to do as well. Uh,  but this is an interesting book against empathy. 16:25 It's, um,  I think it's valid, I think as we all work towards developing our people and the instant assumptions that we're making on what's appropriate from an educational, adult educational perspective, and what are we, um,  pushing for in a culture, right? Empathy has just been thrown in. We just assume that it should be there, maybe not. Okay. 16:48 And let's, let's kind of replace it with something a little more, a little more reasonable. So have a wonderful week as always. I wish you the best. And, um,  speaking of it's mental health awareness month. 17:02 So do good things for that. That'll be the podcast next week. Have a wonderful week. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks everybody and see ya. Bye.

It's been a quarter of mayhem, and as I take a restock of where I stand, I'm excited to share all of the things we have been accomplishing.  First, we did Not a Webinar with Bess Freedman, launching the new program to provide candid insights from executives that are rocking the new economy.  Right after, I was off to Northern Ireland, where I had the privilege of speaking at TedX Downpatrick, at the incredible St. Patrick's Centre.  The speech was focused on Personal Accountability, and how we have an obligation to ourselves to prepare for change, even when we don't know what change is coming. The speech, only 12 minutes in length, gives a framework of reflective questions to help us get along.  More on the podcast, but it goes without saying that some things are crazy right now. It's up to each of us individually to lay down the bed we lie in.  Enjoy the week!    Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. You can also style every aspect of this content in the module Design settings and even apply custom CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings. Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for joining again this week. We are on episode 118. Back at it, it's been a busy quarter, and now that's all behind us and I've got so many updates and so many good things to talk to you about. And, uh,  today I want to talk about two things. One, I just recently did a TED Talk, TEDx down Patrick. Um,  so I'm gonna tell you a little bit about that and the lessons I learned from doing that. 0:31 Um,  and also a little bit on personal accountability, which is kind of what the TED Talk was about, um,  in one aspect, but then was also in in terms of others. So it's been a bit busy. Few weeks if you haven't been following or if you haven't been following, I'll, I'll give a quick recap. We had our first, not a webinar with Best Friedman. 0:51 It was awesome. Um,  she's an absolute rockstar, so if you haven't checked that out, check it out. It's online. We did a live stream. 0:58 We had an in-person audience. The reason I did that, not a webinar, we've got seven more that are gonna be queued up, um,  is that I'm so tired of the webinars being inundated by webinars that, um,  I, I half joke, I say it partly in jest, but they're just not good.  You know,  we're inundated with these webinars. So I wanted to create an event, um,  with just real talk from people who are doing really good things and that's what not a webinar is all about. And so, uh,  Bess really lived up. 1:26 She set a very high standard for the rest of the guests. They're gonna be very cool. They're gonna be announced soon. The week after that, I was on a plane over to Northern Ireland, um,  which was amazing. 1:38 It started in Belfast. And, and the reason I went over there, I was invited to speak at the TEDx event in down Patrick in Northern Ireland, which is a little bit south of Belfast. Um,  had an amazing time at Belfast. Got some nice tours of, of community centers, and we had this great dinner and, and I met some really good people. 1:56 And, um,  amazing. You, if you've heard the podcast before,  you know,  my love affair with Belfast and how much I love Belfast and, and how I think it's one of the coolest cities out there. Um,  I, I'd almost call it like the Brooklyn of Europe . Um,  it's just so cool, uh,  and it's done amazing things and great, amazing things are coming out of it. 2:15 But the TED Talk, if you've ever wanted to do a TED Talk or if you're ever interested in kind of how the sausage is made, um,  Catherine Muran was the, the curator, they call them curators of people who put it on. And it's a series of speeches. Um,  and there are crazy rules on the speeches in terms of what you can speak on and, and how to get approved and, and there's time limits in all kinds of, of stuff. Uh,  it was at an amazing place called the St. Patrick's Center in down Patrick in county down. Um,  it's just below the down cathedral. It's this center where if you go around the back, St. 2:54 Patrick's actually buried there, which is neat. So I gotta see St. Patrick's grave, which is,  you know,  I I, you'd be hard pressed really to find a, a more famous saint. So that's kind of cool. Um,  also in that same grave as, as St. Bridget, who's the other patriot saint of Ireland. Um,  and it was just this cool center just on the history of St. 3:11 Patrick. And you could learn all about St. Patrick and all this good stuff, but they had this nice little theater TEDx events. My understanding is that it's limited to only a hundred people in the audience, which was a perfect size, I think. I think that's a really good, uh,  a really good thing. And, and so eight speakers, I wanna say eight speakers, great topics. Um,  everything from a, a woman who started an Irish dance school to an accountant who teaches people accountancy. 3:38 Uh,  but he, he's also really told his personal story with his family and, and how much he loves his local area is really of a historian. Um,  other coaches spoke a, um,  a disability advocate spoke. She had an incredible kind of perspective in terms of what our assumptions are in terms of what's appropriate for just the way we structure things from, from an architectural standpoint and, and how we think about people with disability. And so the, the talks that are gonna be coming out are meaningful, and I think people will get some really good, really good tangible aspects out of it. What I spoke, the, the title of the speech is Thriving Amid Constant Change, A Personal Accountability Framework. 4:21 And it's just my jam. It's like,  how do you prepare for change when you don't know what change is coming? And macro change requires a focus on the micro individual, and it's what the book Adapting Emotion was all about and incredibly relevant today, especially as we look at AI and the massive amounts of change that are coming through. That's really what I jumped on, is we're so focused on the change externally that we're never really focused on what we can control, what we can, what our responsibility is to ourselves, um,  and the personal accountability of taking care of ourselves so that we're best able to prepare for whatever change comes, like  things like AI or, oh,  I don't know, pandemics and, and whatever else. And so I walked people through the framework that I've done on the podcast before, but I added in a few extra, uh,  quick stories why I quit drinking, and, um, uh,  a good story at the end that people really love. And I'll talk a little bit about how I met my future self, which was a little wild. Um,  and just walking them through the physical aspect of what's so important for,  you know,  as we prepare for change and get ready for whatever change is coming, we have this obligation to ourselves that we never really take the obligation for ourselves. We'll do anything for other people, but we never do anything for ourselves in order to make ourselves in this healthy selfishness type of way. 5:37 And so the focus on the physical, of course, the diet, fitness, sleep, we all know it, we ignore it, but it  it's one of those things that we have to focus on. What are we eating? Are we eating the right things? Um,  how are we active every day? And get some sleep, get that good sleep. 5:53 But beyond the physical, the fun stuff is the, the mental preparation, the self-love. How can anyone be satisfied in life if they're not satisfied with the one person they can never be separated from? Um,  and finding satisfaction with ourselves. And that takes work, a lot of work all the way to self-care. And that's where,  you know,  my story of why I quit drinking and, and the benefit to my family and my business and everything else. 6:17 And then belief system, which you've heard me talk a lot about, is what do you actually believe? And, um,  that's not a simple question, and it's a question that needs to be answered all of the time. And it's a constant discussion with ourselves. Again, obligation to ourselves to answer these questions for us. Uh,  and then finally, the social aspect of, um,  who's our support system. Take the time to think about who your support system is and, and who are the micro interactions to make sure that we're part of a bigger world and, and remind ourselves that there's something bigger than us. 6:48 And, um,  and then the newbies, the new perspectives to challenge our belief systems, to challenge the things that we think. And I mean, that's kind of surface level. Um,  I only had 12 minutes to kind of speak, but surface level, those are the things that I really went into. And giving that framework, this like three by three grid, um,  that's a constant. 7:09 I constantly go back to this when I'm dealing with change or managing change or, or feeling my frustration or overwhelmed something. There is, there's a component in one of those that I can probably reflect on and, and take some tangible action to get myself above whatever the drowning that I feel and, and the difficulty that I feel. And I ended it with not to ruin the TED Talk, cause I want you to watch it should be up, I think it's gonna be published next week. I hope it's published next week, um,  was my, my hike to Bear Mountain, um,  that I do every year. I do it every October on the anniversary of when I quit drinking around that time where I take this hike up to the top. It's the Major Welch Trail. It's all through Bear Mountain, and you get up to the top and you can see Manhattan in the distance. 7:53 And I pack a lunch and I plan my, we my week, my year, my month, whatever it is, and,  you know,  reflect on what's challenging to me,  you know,  what's really present in my mind. And last year when I did it, uh,  I was leaving. I I was just, there was a lot going on right in my head of what I wanted to accomplish, and I couldn't really focus. And so I ate my lunch and there's always a lot of people up there if you don't get up there early enough and everybody's kind of taking their stupid selfies and, and, um,  it's not always the greatest place to, to reflect. And so I wrapped up my lunch and took in the view, and then I was leaving and this guy stopped me. Uh,  and I don't know if I talked about it on this podcast, maybe I did, sorry if I'm repeating a story, but this guy stopped me. He was like,  Hey, can you take a picture of me? 8:34 And he had biked up to the top of Bear Mountain, um,  which is significant, I would say, I'm not much of a cyclist, but he biked up and, uh,  he said he wanted to prove to his wife that he made it to the top. And he was kind of joking and he was real, real, um,  chatty. And, and I wasn't, um,  my head wasn't there, right? I wasn't really open to much discussion, but this guy didn't need any prompting and he just kind of loaded up and it was almost like he was delivering a message to me. 9:02 And he ended it with, well, so he told a story, and this is why I think I met my future self. His name was Jim. He was in his seventies. He had quit drinking a number of years before he realized that he wasn't meeting his obligations. Like  he, he basically told me my life story, which was wild. And he ended it, and he just looked at me like,  dead set, like,  you're an idiot. 9:23 He said, if you wait for somebody to do anything for you, you're gonna be dead in a box before it's done. And that was like,  I, it was hitting me so fast. I almost want, I remember thinking at the moment, I gotta tell this guy like,  this is exactly what I needed and I didn't. I was like,  okay. 9:37 And I just kind of took it and walked away. And, um,  and that's,  you know,  when we think about personal accountability, um,  and this threw me for a loop, the whole, I take a two hour hike back right through the woods. Like  this is a, a whole half day exercise that I do. And, um,  it's a two hour loop behind the mountain back to the car. And, um,  it was all I could think about is what am I waiting for someone else to do for me? 9:59 And as I think about all the work that I want to do, all the things that I wanna accomplish, and this is probably relevant to you as you listen to this, is what are you thinking about wanting to accomplish and do? And we get this frustrated. We talk about purpose at work, we talk about all this stuff, and we're just frustrated. I hear from clients all the time and don't get the feedback that I need. And  you know,  the question is, how do you get the feedback that you need? 10:19 Then? Do you change the questions you're asking? Do you change the people you're asking?  You know,  what are the steps that you can take? 10:25 Because other people aren't thinking about you. Other people aren't going to say, Hey,  you know  what, I'm gonna take the time to make sure that you are set up and the way that you need to be set up. Nobody does that, and it's something I always knew, but we just kind of ignore it. We know it, but we ignore it. And, um,  and , as I was writing the speech and I sent it out for feedback, and one person wrote back, and I didn't say it in Ted Talk, but it shows, when you hear someone, when you hear your future self tell you, it, it hits a little different. 10:56 And with things changing so quickly, AI's changing so quickly and the the workplace changing so quickly, people being laid off and we've gotta restructure the organization and, and how do we get the team motivated and how do we do this? And we're all thinking about all these things that we need to do, but we're so focused externally. We're never thinking about what do I need to do? What do I need to do as a leader to get my people to think differently? 11:20 You can't force 'em to think differently. They have to do this through an exercise. You have to bring them through it. How do you prioritize these things? 11:27 You know,  I just give feedback for an article in terms of wellness, how,  you know,  everybody wants to prioritize wellness. Uh,  we talk about it at work, we talk about wellness at work, we talk about all these things, but it's never a priority, right? We prioritize the things that are really important out of wellness is really important. You have to prioritize it. 11:44 That's your accountability to yourself. How is that the first thing that you do every day? If learning is your priority, how are you learning every day? And I've had had clients who have started every meeting, like,  if you wanna talk about wellness and you wanna prioritize wellness on your team, every team meeting should start with what are you doing to make yourself well? 12:04 And that's the first question, go around. And if it becomes the habit and everybody's thinking about it, everybody knows they've gotta come to that meeting talking about what's making them well or not well, or I need help with something, or whatever it is. Suddenly when it's top of mind and it becomes a priority, that's how the things change. So often we start these initiatives and, and it's always secondary to getting the business done, but when we realize that well employees make good business decisions and we could prioritize this, the first thing, it's a five minute exercise at the beginning of a meeting, or what are you learning today? 12:35 Or, or what is a question that you have that somebody else could be meaningful for? I do the Adam Grant thing, giving and taking. Everyone has to give something and take something.  You know,  what are we teaching our employees and our teams and ourselves? How is this,  you know,  we think about presence, we think about reflecting in the morning, we think about meditation, we think about all these things, but there is an action that has to happen, and it's our responsibility to do that. And so it was a nice exercise to go through, to write the TED talk, to write the whole kind of story of my philosophy on what I need from a wellness perspective that I think could be relevant to other people on that framework that people can use to, to ask these questions of ourselves. 13:13 That's, that's the fun part. And so look out for it. It'll be coming up soon. I hope you enjoy it. I would love your feedback on it. Um,  and that's, yeah, that's just me spitting a little bit. 13:25 And I'm gonna get back into the habit of doing these podcasts. Um,  I've got some just interesting things that I've been reading about how we're misinterpreting empathy and, um,  how do you finish things. And so these are all gonna be topics I'm gonna be talking about in the next few weeks. And, uh,  I look forward to it. And if you want me to cover anything, I'm happy to do it. But there's,  you know,  I, it's funny, I go through these cycles of doing podcasts for a period, and then I go back not doing podcasts because I'm going back learning and thinking about other things, and then I can reinvent and do, uh,  more, more topics to talk about. So if there's anything you want me to cover, I'm happy to do it, um,  because it, it seems to be resonating, which is nice. So, uh,  have a wonderful week. Look out for the TED Talk. 14:04 Remember, what, what can you do to be accountable to yourself and what can you learn for yourself? This was a quick one. And, and, um,  more to come. Lots more to come. There's so much to learn and so much to focus on and so much to do. 14:14 So, uh,  as always, I'm here to help. Feel free reach out. I'm happy to help you in any kind of way that I can. And, uh,  enjoy your week and I will talk to everybody soon. Thanks. Have a good week. Bye.

That feeling you've got? The one where you think it's stress and frustration? I'll re-frame it … for many, it's fear and anxiety, otherwise known as vulnerability.  So many words, I know. But if you know me, you know I talk about the change thing constantly, and we have a slight luxury in the fact that we can recognize things are changing faster than we can keep up … so we are able to create a strategy to adapt.  But while creating our individual strategies, we also could use a little direction. We crave direction; there is comfort in someone telling us that things are going to be OK. Like JFK telling us we can get to the moon, we, as a society, need someone to help quell the anxiety, recognize our vulnerability, and charge us up to get to the next level.  And while there is no shortage of experts telling you HOW you are supposed to be (without context), there is a glaring gap in the category of “gurus we can trust.” Everyone seems to be selling this fix or that fix, or promote ideas that are self-serving to their ego. It's rare to find someone who can balance the “what's best for everyone” with their own self interest in an appropriate way.  It takes transparency, conscience, altruism, and trust. And while we develop ourselves and build – this trust difficult to come by.  Now, it's easy to state that “other people should be shining examples for us.” We can't dictate what public figures should be, while not expecting them to do it to us. However, these people exist already, and it's up to us to find them. It's our responsibility to filter the noise that coming to us as we create our strategies. We click the follow or unfollow button. And as we look to get our influence and developmental information, remember this: garbage in; garbage out.  So – this week, rethink the info you are getting; and if the people you follow are really worth following. There is are obligations that come with being a public figure; yet many seem to neglect or ignore this. Self-interest and promotion often conflict with what's best for the audience.  SO – that's the thought this week … good luck with it … and have a great time cutting back the follow list.

With change happening everywhere, vulnerable people are on the hunt for a guru, and should take the time to find someone they can trust.

Ohhhhh the AI thing. It's bananas. It's crazy. It's going to destroy humanity. And it's so much fun.  Today's podcast – how AI will affect the future of work. But not in a bloviating, imaginary way, which is how much of the AI discussion is happening (paired with doom and gloom of the end of the world). But more of a measured, tangible and smart way to approach it, from corporate leadership to the individual being affected.  It's not hyperbolic to say that AI is similar to the rise of human life on earth. That sounds wild, but it's also accurate. This is a pivotal point not just in the workplace, but in how society operates. It's not going away. On board yet? Good. Let's get to the bigger things.  Those bigger things include YOU. AI has been around for a while, behind a nice user experience model (thanks, Google!) that has allowed for some adoption. With the explosion of ChatGPT, many people are rushing to dictate and use some AI models to influence what they are looking for.  Initially, this will create a lot of noise in the marketplace (“Robot – write me a blog!”), but as we get past the newness of this, it will then influence workplaces in larger, more dynamic ways.  What's important to note here, and this is the crux of the podcast, is that while AI will change everything about work, it's up to us, as individuals, to control our positioning in this new world.  Yes, corporate leadership is looking at how to leverage AI (and they should). But you, as an individual, should be spending your time learning about it and using it, because without doing so, you will be left behind.  We all have a lot to learn … AI is no exception. Your future is dictated by choices today. More to come on AI, but here is a good start. Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. You can also style every aspect of this content in the module Design settings and even apply custom CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings. Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast I'm Jim Frawley, and this is Bellwether. Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for being here. Episode 116, 17, something like that. We're talking about ai. If I had my robot working, I'd know what episode it was. Um, . Let's talk about AI in the future of work. It's not something that we can ignore. It's something that I've wanted to talk about for a long time on the podcast. I've talked about it a little bit, but I haven't really done a dedicated episode on it. 0:53 Uh, I speak a lot to clients about it. I speak a lot to non-clients and audiences about it, and it's, um, it's a very exciting time. This is great. Um, what I wanna cover today, I'm gonna give you just a brief overview to level set because there's a lot of noise flying around in terms of what AI is and how it's transforming and all of that good stuff. Let's talk about how AI is affecting work today. 1:15 Let's talk about how it's work affecting you and work tomorrow. And then we're gonna wrap it up in a nice little bow and, and we're gonna set you off on your way and it's gonna be great cuz you're gonna be ready to deal with it. Um, here's, here's just a level set on ai and what I think about ai. This is, I've heard it said this way before and I completely agree with it. 1:36 It's similar to the rise of human life on earth. And that's not hyperbolic. Like this shit is legit and crazy and important and huge and it will not go away. And so we can't really put our head in the sand. Can't put your head in the sand. Silly ostrich. You have to embrace it. You have to adjust to it, and you have to get prepared for it. And right now it's kind of irrelevant, right? 2:07 It's all just doing small tasks that it can do for you. Is, is the way most people have imagined it. Social media content and writing kids books and creating pictures and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And basically it's just being used to create noise. That's all it is. It's just a lot of noise. We're seeing all the social media content, apparently. It's also writing Valentine's Day cards. That's great. We're using it in these little things. 2:27 Creating your meal plan and your workout plan and all this stuff. And there's all kinds of things that you can do, uh, where it's basically gonna compile information and it, and it's great. Okay? That's wonderful. Uh, but this will evolve and grow. And it's starting to do that into ways that have much more meaning. And that's what I wanna talk about today. I want to talk about that much more. Meaning let's chat about you and let's go. 2:53 All right? Because this affects everybody and full stop. This affects everybody. Um, and so, so that's it. So let's talk about the current state, right? It's creating noise. A lot of industries have already embraced ai. They're doing work with it. It's not, it's been around for a lot of auto automation. Google's been doing it. Think about your maps and all these types of things. The apps, it's been around, it's made life easier. 3:16 The challenge AI has always had is we, I mean, this has been talked about for decades. The challenge has been human adoption and user experience was the big play for ai. And Google was very good about that. And they've done it. Apple's very good about it. Um, but now it's kind of evolved. Humans have caught up a little bit. And so now it's, you know, the timing is ripe for this kind of thing. 3:42 And, and ai, uh, OpenAI and chat, G p t and all that stuff is, you know, we feel like we're ready to jump in. And this is kind of the new one, and it's just the starting point, but it's been around for, for a long time. So, um, and OpenAI has been around for a long time. They've done a lot of work too that, that you're probably familiar with. So, um, a lot of misconceptions about ai. 4:03 Um, but I think the reason we have so many misconceptions is because we don't fully appreciate the scale of what's possible with ai. Most of us are just kind of getting, catching up and getting up to it. The people who have been really knee deep and and arms deep in AI for the past, you know, bunch of years can talk about this scale. Will it destroy humanity? Some will say yes, I think probably not. 4:28 We're adaptable people or we're at least 50 years out from that as it goes. Um, . But, uh, but AI will make life fundamentally different within the next 10 years, if not five years, if not three years. And so what is important to remember is that humans are adaptable and it's very unsettling. AI is very, very unsettling in the workplace and what it's going to happen. And will we remain relevant for our individual, right? 4:57 There's the macro and the micro and we're gonna talk about individuals and everything else. A lot of people are going to be left behind in this. And so I don't want that to happen to you. I want you to be, uh, I want you to be there, but we are adaptable. Um, some people are not. And that's a fact and that's gonna be harsh. And there's going to be a, um,uh, a feeling of, you know, we're being left behind and we're gonna fight it and we're gonna stick to the old way. 5:20 So if you're thinking about the old way and how you want to clinging to it and do that, you're probably gonna be one of those people who are gonna be left behind. And that's a fact. And that adds more fear. And so that's why we fight. And we say we don't, don't take this away from me and all of this. This is societal change problems that we're gonna have to discuss and deal with, but we're gonna keep it just to, you know, we're gonna keep it to the workplace and, and talk about that. 5:41 So what I would encourage you to do is embrace it, don't fight it, um, and learn it and get really, really good with it. Because this is, this is the future of ai and it's the future of work and it's, it's going to change everything. So let's talk about benefits cuz we're just ripping through this. This is, I'm gonna try and do this episode in less than 15 minutes, um, and tell you everything you need to know in 15 minutes. 6:07 Um, potential benefits. Let's talk about the benefits of ai. One, increased productivity and efficiency. That's the easy play. That's it. Um, this is a goldmine for businesses, goldmine for businesses. Um, however, at that same time, generally what's a goldmine for a business is very uncomfortable for individuals. And that's something we need to remember. So it will make you productive, it will make you more efficient and will do all of these types of things. 6:34 But what does that mean for you, the individual? And we have to kind of figure that out. So businesses are going to invest heavily in AI because AI will supplement the 25% of workers they're going to keep while they shed 75%. And the money is going to, you know, filter up the top. That's what businesses do. We can resent it, we can hate it, we cannot like it, but that's just a fact. 6:55 And it's the way the world goes and that's the way life exists and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So, um, companies are looking at how to utilize AI in different types of ways, and they are going to lay off people. People are expensive, they're slow, they make mistakes. AI does not so well yet, you know,you know,you know where I'm going to. So, so that's that. You'll hear a line about how you're gonna have increased job satisfaction with ai, um, , and it's a nice little PR pitch. 7:24 You know what some people will, some people will, a lot of people won't. And here's why. Um, AI is going to eliminate all the mundane tasks that we have to do. Great. So let's talk about job satisfaction and mundane. There is comfort in the mundane. There is comfort on the days that we wanna mail it in at work and we just kind of push papers and we just do whatever and we're like, okay, and I did some work and whatever, I'm kind of mailing it in today and that's it. 7:55 Um, and so we like that. However, the question is, will that keep us up to pace with everybody else, right? So the, this is going to force us to kind of go, go, go, go, go. We'll use AI to do this and we're gonna create more. We're gonna use AI to do this. We're gonna create more, we're gonna do more. We're gonna do more. We're gonna do more. And that's exhausting. That's exhausting. 8:17 Um, if I go through one more, there's a flower shop. I mean, I keep meaning to take a picture of, you know, work hard today. So tomorrow's great and it's kind of this go, go-go mentality, really driven by the coaching industry about this growth mindset. And we have to do more and we could do more today to fix tomorrow. And it is exhausting. Okay? So, um, we have comfort in the mundane that's going to be eliminated because AI could do a force and it should, okay? 8:39 But it's not gonna mean that we could just sit around and do nothing. We're going to replace it by creating more work based on this AI and do that. So, um, job satisfaction does not come from the mundane. We have to talk about that as well. So yes, AI will eliminate the mundane and increase job satisfaction. That actually means the same thing. Here's what I mean by that. Job satisfaction comes from creating work. 9:05 Job satisfaction comes from ownership of something that you wish to accomplish and seeing it come to fruition, that's job satisfaction. If we eliminate the mundane tasks and just get assigned more of stuff we don't really want to own, we don't really want to do, that's not really, AI's not really going to help job satisfaction. So what we have to do is change our thinking and change our mindset, which we've talked about on this podcast before about creating work and creating ideas. 9:31 And that is, you know, when we clear out the mundane, it's actually a good thing, but we need to refill it with something that's not bs. And that's what we have to, that's the human thing that we have to figure out for us. Each individual is what are we going to create and not just be a passive, all right, well this is done. What are you gonna give me to do now? 9:52 And yes, boss, please give me more work. The, the days of being just a passive observer, endurer, I can't say they're over, but it's not gonna be solved by ai because if you're just gonna let it be replaced with more of this mundane and you know, just get assigned stuff and do stuff that you don't actually want to do, then you're just gonna be just as miserable as you are today. So that's life. 10:16 Welcome, welcome to it. Something I learned way too late and we'll see more people take the risk of being entrepreneurs and all of this type of stuff. It's very, very difficult to do, but we have to make this effort and see fruition. That's purpose. That's meaning, that's exactly what, you know, everybody claims to want, but it takes work to get there and that's not really what everybody wants to do. Um, so that's that. 10:39 So when we think about benefits of ai, increased productivity for the business, yes, painful for the individual, but what's good for the individual is the elimination of mundane tasks. You're gonna lose that comfort. But if you're open to it, we have to create more work and do those like really human things to challenge it and make AI reach its full potential so that we could do those things together. Um, there will be new opportunities for work in AI for those in your fifties, you're probably a little too late, let's be honest. 11:08 You're not really going to adapt to it, but there is a major transition time. Okay? So when I say that is what, what, what do new job opportunities look like? We generally think about kids coming out of college and how can they code and program and do these different types of things? Fine, but you can't have new jobs and programs until you understand how to use it first. And so that's step one. 11:27 Rather than worrying about what's 10 years down the road about will I be relevant, start today, play with ai. It's free open. AI is free to play with, play with it. Learn the new ways of thinking and how to adopt it and come up with new ideas. That is new opportunity right there. So when you're looking to build something and, and how does AI come in and how do people come into it? 11:46 It's emerging of two capabilities. What can you think up and how can you think about these things in new ways? And how can AI execute on this and challenge and elevate it and do it in more, do it in more unique creative, different types of ways. That's what's going to be relevant in the workplace, at least in the short term. And when I say short term in the next decade. So yes, new opportunities are going to be here. 12:07 It's up to you to learn it. Okay? You're watching TikTok videos of all these people doing these new things and you know, that's great and you say, oh, that's cool, and then you don't do anything. Uh, you're gonna be left behind, right? You actually have to practice this and do it. It could be anything. Write me a marathon training plan, write me, you know, all those things I said at the beginning, those silly little, you know, whatever. 12:27 See what output you get. If it's not good enough, then you have to change it the way you ask it and give it different types of parameters. We're thinking in terms of parameters, we're thinking in terms of theory, and then how do you give really specific direction and expectations so the robot can understand it. This has implications on interpersonal skills as well. So these are the types of things that we have to learn today. 12:49 And it's a fun exercise. It's actually a lot, a lot of fun to do that. So when we think about opportunity, that's one of the things that we have to do there too. Um, let's talk about skills, right? Cause I'm getting to the 15 minutes. I might go to to 20. I've got an outline and I'm, I'm blasting through and you know, sometimes I could go deeper. If you want me to go deeper, I'm happy to do that and reach out and I will go really, really deep. 13:10 Most people don't pay attention for 45 minutes, so that's why I don't do it. Um, let's talk about the skills that are gonna be in high demand, okay? As we just talked about that transition to learning AI and all of that, um, there are a couple things we have to learn about skill sets. AI is ultimately the result of human work. Okay? That's it. It compiles it thinks it, spits it back out, and that's it, it's a lot of those, those types of things for now, okay? 13:36 Um, skills that will be in high demand in how you could do it. The first, you know, as I think about it, and I wrote this down and I hate this term, but growth mindset, um, learning new skills. We hear this a lot. We need a growth mindset and we need to be thinkers and blah, blah, blah. How that manifests is difficult. Creating a growth mindset. Most people don't know how to digest this. 13:56 Creating a growth mindset's kind of like work on your listening skills. It sounds nice, doesn't mean shit, okay? It doesn't mean anything unless you give it meaning. So we need, basically what growth mindset means, is we need to ask a lot of questions and assume we don't know the answer. That's growth mindset in a nutshell. Okay?Um, it means not having any answers, it means losing your assumptions. That's where we have to, we have to strip ourselves down here. 14:22 That's growth mindset is not building on what we have from the past, but stripping it away and learning what to ignore so that we could be open to new ideas in the future. Um, I have more and more conversations, personal conversations, not necessarily work conversations with more and more people who are getting much more aggressive in, in having the right answer and being right. And I recognize that this is just a fear of what's happening, right? 14:47 They just spit out what they heard either on a news channel or, or something else. They have no context. They have this belief that they're trying to pass off as truth because they're trying to hold onto an old idea because they're unsure of what's coming next. Growth mindset. We have to shift and shed those assumptions and lose it and be open to the fact that maybe somebody's got something better than what we think. 15:08 That is incredibly important today. So that's that. Um, it's basically insecurity, okay? I mean, that's when we hold onto these old ideas, it's, it's an important thing holding onto these old ideas. It's insecurity in its purest form, okay? So shed those, those assumptions and do that human-based skills, what makes you uniquely human are going to be incredibly important. Yes, we could talk about empathy and we could talk about, um, all those things, but real creativity is a human skill. 15:39 Interpersonal skills, problem solving, right? It's ultimately, um, we still need humans. AI is still ultimately the result of human thought. Okay? So how can we be creative with using AI and elevating these types of things? AI is supportive. How we interact with other humans is incredibly important. So sales, jobs, psychological work, um,you know, all of these types of skills are gonna be very, very important in the workplace. We should be working on those. 16:05 Get out and meet more people, be more social, right? We don't have to, this isn't like you have to go back to school and, and take these classes. It's literally interpersonal. Learn how to have a conversation. Again, get out and network. How do you strike up? Strike up small talk. I hate small talk, but we still have to do it. It makes us part of a bigger world. These types of skill sets that we have to kind of say what makes us human, other people and our relationships make us human. 16:28 And that's what do we create and how do we think about new ideas and all of these types of things that's humanity and that's really, really good. Um, and facilitators, facilitators are going to be important, right? When we think about project management, getting things done, how do we finish things? AI will be doing work, but project management's much more than just Excel sheets and, uh, Trello boards and all that stuff. It's about working with people to get things finished. 16:56 And that's project management and that's gonna be, you know, very important. Um, and the ability to think, we have to think that skillset has gone away. It's a very kind of flighty kind of statement, but the, the ability to think has gone away because we haven't had to think over the past few years. A lot of people will jump in and tell you what to think, but we haven't had to think over the past few years. 17:18 Technology has kind of muffled that quite a bit. And so how do we think and, and encourage this philosophical, you know, how do you become philosophical? How do you think this is, you know, every day just pick a different random question and just think it through to till it's just beaten into the ground. We should be able to think not about what's right, but what's possible. Um, and those are the skill sets. 17:43 So as we go in, what are we at here? 17 minutes. Sorry, I'll wrap it up in like two and a half minutes here. I'll do it under 20. Overcoming the challenges. There will be challenges to ai. Change is uncomfortable. Um, and the ultimate goal, I guess for, for government, for business is to make this transition as smooth as possible for the people. That's your role right now. So that I'm speaking now to the businesses, to the government. 18:06 That's, that's that employee prep begins. Now, even if you're planning to cut your workforce by 50, 60, 70%, which is going to happen by the way, people, that's going to happen in the next bunch of years. Um, people staying still need the skillset, okay? And as you train these employees and teach these employees these new ways of thinking, more roles and divisions will come up. So you may not have to actually lay off all of those people that you can manifest and build your businesses in different types of ways. 18:33 So some of these skills, the educating of your employees and the training of your employees, these are skillsets we don't typically think of in the workplace of skillsets. We have to teach belief systems. How do you articulate what you believe? This isn't the typical kind of corporate top down. This is the messaging I want you to have. How do you get people comfortable with expressing their ideas? That is a skillset that we have to teach. 18:56 Um, how do you articulate question thinking? How do you think and reframe ideas? This is the new type of, of educating that we have to do. And that's something to invest in today so that AI can, people know how to use the ai. This is part of your business transition. This is part of your people strategy. PS this is exactly what we do. So you can call us and we'll just, we can make it easy for you. 19:18 We know exactly what to do. We've got the program, we've got the set, we could do this. Um, and so that's it. So AI in a nutshell, as we're wrapping up here, coming up on my 20 minutes, this is a lot to take in, A lot to take in. AI is going to basically what I've just told you in the past 20 minutes, AI is gonna fundamentally change everything on this planet. 19:40 Um, if you don't embrace it, you're gonna be left behind. This all sounds very, very dark, but there is possibility. We are adaptable, we are unique, we are special snowflakes, we have capability, but it's going to take work, okay? On the business side, business owners, business leadership, this is an investment you have to make for your employees. It's going to help your business. It's going to change your business. It's necessary for your business. 20:02 It's an investment. It's a new line on the balance sheet. You're gonna have to do it from people. You're gonna have to do the work. You're gonna have to create, you have to understand ai. That's your responsibility. It's to get yourself ready so that you're relevant to the workplace so that people are going to want to hire you and people, people are going to want to retain you. This is a point where we're going to see a bifurcation in society, in the workplace, everything where there's the people who understand it, the educated and the people who don't. 20:28 Okay? So this is very, it's a very, very important time. The bifurcation is going to happen soon. You could do it. I believe in you. I'm here to help. Reach out anytime. Good luck with ai. Good luck with the world , and here's your, your big nugget for everything. Um, I'll touch on this more, right? I'll, I'll do more podcasts on AI in the future of work. It's going to be so big. 20:49 We, we can't ignore it. We have to embrace it. So good luck with it. I'm here to help. Reach out anytime and I'll talk to everybody very soon. Thanks for listening. Thank you so much for listening. Now, do something for yourself. Bellweather is much more than just a podcast. Join us@bellweatherhub.com where you can read riveting articles, view upcoming events, and connect with other interesting people. I look forward to seeing you out there soon.

Spicy headline? Yes.  I will kick this off with this statement: diversity and inclusion in the workplace has become not only increasingly relevant in recent years, but increasingly important as well, and for good reason. A diverse and inclusive workplace not only benefits the employees who work there, but the organization as a whole. Research shows that diverse organizations are more profitable, resilient and successful than those that haven't quite caught up to modern times. That said, there is an undercurrent that is hushed and not spoken about in the open as much as it should, and that's what's to do with the white men in the office. Because traditionally, when we talk D&I, we aren't talking about the white guys.  Much more detail in the podcast, but there is an emotional challenge for men, who had expectations of promotions and ongoing success, that feel that they now have opportunities denied them.  It's a touchy subject to bring up, and while some would say, “yep, tough life,” others would say that there are better ways of going about it.  It's a perfect example of macro change inflicting specific challenges onto micro situations. But while we should encourage more Diversity and Inclusion programs, we should also encourage the dialogue to ensure that resentment doesn't build within the organization.  Stats, examples, details on the episode – would love your commentary – and look forward to chatting soon! Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. You can also style every aspect of this content in the module Design settings and even apply custom CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings. Click Here For an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for being here. Episode 115, what are we gonna do with all the white guys in the office? Very hyperbolic, very spicy hyperbolic title. I know I'm gonna go with it. Apologize for the cold, please bear with me while I do it. Um, yes, spicy topic. There's a lot of white guys in the office. This is not an attack on white guys. This is actually a serious thing that, uh, I've talked to a lot of clients about. 0:29 And this is, um, there's this undercurrent that we need to address. Um, I'm gonna kick this off by saying diversity and inclusion programs are necessary. They are great. They're not only increasingly relevant, but they're increasingly important. And we're learning a lot about what's, you know, what can change in the office and what's possible with a more diverse workforce. And, um, how much benefit a really diverse workforce brings. And, uh, companies and individuals working in diverse workforces are, are more productive. 1:01 They're more profitable, they're more, uh, culturally aligned. The culture's more dynamic. The measurement is there, the science is there. It's all very, very good. And I love the diversity and inclusion programs that are going on. That's great. So research is there definitely worth it. Definitely important. We still have a lot of work to do. That said, there is an undercurrent, this little hush hush kind of not spoken about really in a certain type of way, as, as much as it should, is what are you doing with the white guys in the office? 1:32 Because when we're talking about diversity and inclusion programs and diversifying leadership and diversifying the things that really matter, when we talk about diversity, the first thing that comes to your mind is generally not a white guy, . Um, and the the philosophy behind that is that, look, and I had a conversation a long time ago, Eileen Scully was on, she wrote a book, um, she wrote a book about the, uh, the workplace and, and women in the workplace. 2:01 And basically what she said on the, the, the podcast, which resonated with me, is everything about work was built by white men. Okay? And that doesn't work for everybody. And now, as the world's changing and catching up and doing all of these types of things, um, we need to, it's not set up for women. It's not set up for black people. It's not set up, you know, it's not just creating work. 2:21 There's an environment within which we work. And so that's evolving and that's changing, and it's very, very good. It needs to change. Um, workplace and leadership has traditionally been run by white guys, right? And there have been some, you know, and I I'm saying white guys, it's mostly men. Uh, we're seeing more, if you take a look at leadership teams, right? The head of HR is generally a woman. The head of legal is generally a woman, but exceptions, you know, obviously exist. 2:49 But if you take a look macro at the, the world, it's, most CEOs are men and most COOs are men. And, um, and that's CFOs are men. And that, that's it, right? And it's, it's not that it's been intentional, okay? I wanna make sure that that's kind of Dr. It's not this intentional kind of, well, this is the white guy club and you're not allowed to be in it, even though it's kind of presented that way. 3:11 If we take a look back over how these things just happened to evolve, right? Women weren't in the workplace because they, we didn't really have the technology to, you know, there was the kid thing and all of that. And women are taking control and changing their priorities on that. And, and either waiting later to have children or now there are more, you know, workplaces caught up starting to catch up in terms of allowing women to have children and do that balance thing. 3:34 And, you know, society is changing that type of way. Um, the black people coming into the workplace, that's a whole different challenge. Um, which we still have more progress to do on that. Um, right? It's just, I mean, that's, they've always been left out, whether subconsciously or not, um, from golf clubs to work clubs, they're just, you know, they haven't been there. And so we're making important inroads on that, and that's good. 3:59 Um, so any diverse group, I guess it's just kind of the way that it evolved. For right or wrong, some people did bad things, some people just were negligent and didn't pay attention or just didn't care, right? And, and that's just the way it is. But let's talk about today, um, because we're making progress and that's great. Um, and the situation we have today, we're making inroads and that's great. Here's my challenge. 4:22 Well, it's not my challenge because I have my own business, but the challenge I have with some of my clients, um, and they'll remain nameless. Companies will remain nameless, but there is, um, I mean, if you take a look at my, the population of my clients, I've got the businesses and we're doing good kind of future of people work and all of that stuff. We don't really talk about diversity and inclusion. 4:42 I'm a white guy. Nobody wants to listen to a white guy talk about diversity and inclusion. Um, so I don't even kind of go there, but we talk about how do you structure your people and all of that kind of, you know, beyond any of who those people are. Just let's talk about in terms of, you know, logic and, and everything else. We could worry about that other stuff later. Then my individual coaching clients, you know, they're working with me, they wanna get to the C-suite they're doing, and they're probably half men, half women. 5:07 Um, it's really split down the middle. But then out of the guys, uh, actually out of all of them, it's mostly white people because there's mostly white people at work. And, you know, I do have different races that I work with and everything else, but when I think about the guys that I work with, it's mostly white guys, and they're looking to get up into the C-suite and do all of these things. 5:26 I mean, there there is this segment of middle management or upper middle management, whatever you wanna do it. Um, it's white guys. They, they, um, they, they look at corporate leadership, they look at the change and they see what's happening and they're losing the motivation to go forward because they don't see a future. And here's my thesis statement. I'm gonna make the thesis statement now, then I'm gonna talk a little bit more. 5:53 Oh, I just lost my pen. Um, when you make inroads to diversity inclusion, which is good, these opportunities were never afforded people before, right? The women coming up through the workforce in the eighties and the nineties, um, dealt with some crazy bs, didn't have the real opportunities afforded to them. You had to be like a vicious person in order to get there. And, um, and then that created new problems in terms of, you know, type of person you are and everything else. 6:18 Um, so the opportunities weren't really there. They're there now and that's great, and they're excited and that's wonderful and they should be, and that's fantastic. People of other races, right? Black people, everyone else, same thing. Opportunity wasn't really there. We're finally, you know, people are starting to pay attention. Probably say, Hey, you know what? Diversity is a good thing. This is all kind of stupid. The way that we've set it up. 6:37 Let's move it forward. Opportunity is there that wasn't there before. This is great. They're excited, they're doing it. There's investment and there's groups and there's all kinds of stuff for women and, and for, uh, everybody. And that's excellent. White men came up, and I don't know if this is generational, uh, because it may be done by the time, like the millennials get through it. So it could only be like a short term challenge, uh, came up with the expectation assumption that they were going to keep working and working hard, and they would have promotions and they could work towards promotions and do all of that. 7:06 That's been taken away in some instances. And I'll give more kind of details on that in a little bit. And so it's not, that opportunity hasn't been there, it's opportunity feels like on an emotional level, it's being taken away. And this is on an individual basis, okay? So at a macro level, yes, we need more diversity, right? But simple math will tell you there's only a set number of leadership positions. And so we gotta change the dynamic. 7:31 And so the conversation that's happening is, um, I should have gotten that role. I can't because they're not gonna put a white guy in that role. Um, whether they should or shouldn't perceive it that way, you know, we could talk about that and, and we'll talk about that a little bit. I've been in meetings, here's, you know, perfect example. I had a client who was up for a promotion, should have gotten it, was told by his boss, like, go in for this job. 7:55 We're gonna be redoing things. Like, this is you, you're the perfect guy for it. He was incredibly well suited for it. Um, and then they said, well, we have to open it up. So they opened it up and the HR person told him that he asked for an update on what the job thing was, um, that this is a quote, we didn't get any women of color to apply for it, so we're putting the job on hold. 8:15 And now this is a major role. They can't really put this role on hold, but they're putting it on hold. There are no in this industry and, and job type, I don't know. I asked him, you know, are there women of color in this? Right? And he's like, no, I don't know anybody. Like this is not, it's just not there, right? So it's a misguided kind of attempt at just saying, we have to put a person in here and there's a misinterpretation of the way that diversity's supposed to work. 8:40 And so now he's not getting the job, the job is being shelved. And, and, and that's it. And so now he looked at me and he's like, Jim, am I done? He goes, I think I'm finished. I've invested. I mean, he's in his early fifties. I I've invested my time, I've done done all of this stuff. He said, if I can't, like this was my natural next, this is where I was supposed to go. 8:59 And I guess I'm, I guess I'm finished. Um, now outside of the HR person, probably shouldn't have said that, obviously. Uh, but I've been on calls where the execs said, there's no way we're putting a white guy in that, in that position. And the HR person goes, you can't say it that way. You know, you gotta say it this way. Uh, , you say it like this. I remember sitting in, in finance, uh, person up there said, you know, our priority this year is to only promote women. 9:20 And every guy just basically pulled out their phone and said, who else is hiring? Right? Like, I guess I'm, I'm not getting a promotion this year. And so there's this semantics of, right. They didn't say it the way they should have said it, but like, we all know what it means. And the guys are like, well, what about me? Right? So macro, and here's the funny thing, most white guys are for it. 9:40 Most guys are for the diversity and inclusion and everything, and they wanna mentor. And, um, and here's the funny kicker about the one client he sponsored and started the diversity and inclusion thing at the workplace. Um, he was a white guy, but he said, this is really important and he championed it and everything else. And, and, uh, now he feels like it's burning him. Um, now it's emotional versus logic. And, and we've got all of these types of things and, and we have these assumptions. 10:04 And, um, and so, so we have to think about how this evolves and how do you at least engage these men in conversation to say, look, you still have value. There still is a future, right? The macro thing is very important, but on an individual micro level, people will say, well, what about me? Right? I agree with that. You know, it's like, I, I want speed bumps in the neighborhood, but don't put it in front of my house, right? 10:30 , and, you know, I don't wanna listen to that. Um, I feel like, and I, I feel like this is short term, the more I think about this, right? It's, it's a generation X, not really baby boomers, they're kind of done, they're out of the office and they're, they're, um, just hoarding their money and doing whatever. But, uh, most boomers are kind of gone. We're in the Gen X world now. It's a Gen X challenge, it's a millennial challenge after that, GenZ and all that other stuff, they've, they're growing up in a different type of, um, a different type of world. 10:57 And so, um, I hate to present a problem and not have solutions, but this is a topic that I'm, I'm talking to a lot of people about, uh, just write an amazing book called Men Without Work. Apparently something like almost 20% of able-bodied men are out of the workforce, not even looking for job. They're not even included in unemployment numbers. They're out of the workforce and, um, not looking for a job, which is insane to me, right? 11:24 And so where are these people going? And I was looking through the data and reading the book, and they said, well, you know what, more women came into the workplace, which is good. So we don't see that there's less people and you know, this whole shift. But now we've got a societal issue where you have no motivation, no type of work. A lot of the research in terms of happiness surveys and everything, there was a, a, a male one that had happened years ago where what gives you energy? 11:49 All the women had answered it, you know, my family gives me energy. And, you know, all this above and beyond what gives you purpose and everything for men was my work. And if you take a look at suicide rates, the biggest suicide group are men over the age of 60. And a lot of people are tying them back to the fact that they don't have work and they don't have purpose. They've retired, they don't know what to do with themselves. 12:10 They don't, you know, there is this societal shift that's happening and men have to figure it out. And when we take a look at, I have no future at this organization, you're pushing the, the age limit. You know, what are the guys in their forties and fifties gonna do? Where, you know, when I've hit my ceiling, now I've got another 20 years in this role. I don't wanna do that, right? Do I have to do a fundamental shift? 12:29 Do I have to do a fundamental change? I have to go to a new industry, like there's, and look, life's life sucks right there. There is this aspect to it. Welcome to life, it's gonna hit you hard, wear a cup and move on. So there is kind of a little tough love that needs to happen. It's not like we have to handhold all of these people. Um, but there is this psychological kind of thing. 12:47 And, and we know that men don't like to talk about the stuff we don't like, for a lot of reasons. Not because we can't, but because we just don't wanna burden other people with our problems. And, and we like to say, well, you should talk about it. Some guys just don't want to. Um, but there are, by the way, if you are in this situation, you're a guy listening to it, there are plenty of people who will talk to you about it and wanna talk to you about it, and we'll help you articulate it. 13:07 And that's, you know, there are challenges and opportunity and, but generally what we have to do is we kind of have to, we have to work through it, we have to articulate it, and we have to talk about it. Uh, so what can we do about this? This is, I'll remind, um, and we could talk to leadership, we could talk to individuals, we could talk to anybody. But remember, this is an individual challenge. 13:27 It's a weird one because it's, the macro challenge is we don't have enough diversity in the workplace, okay? And that's a macro general look at the numbers. It's true, it's there. And so we have to fix that challenge. But on an individual level, uh, what's my path and what does this mean for me? And the devil is in the details. And when we talk about macro change, we gotta talk about a micro individual. 13:52 Um, and some people in your ranks are getting very frustrated because they don't feel like they have a path and they don't know where they're going to go. Um, when we take a look, last week I talked about ambition. Where'd the ambition go? Is we don't know where we're going, right? And this is kind of doubly true for, for the men. And so, um, I'm not saying it's right or wrong, I'm saying it's a challenge we have to deal with. 14:13 So first, I mean, the first thing I would say in terms of solutions, these probably aren't the greatest solutions, but I'll start the conversation, is number one, we have to recognize that this is a challenge, right? And you can't just ignore it. When we're putting together diversity and inclusion programs, we have to include white men in that, okay? Because it's, there is this shift of what's happening and, and they have value to bring it, and they're very supportive of it. 14:34 But we have to recognize that this is an emotional challenge for men. Um, and we can't coddle them and, and, you know, do it. There's, there's an appropriate way to do that, but we, we don't, we gotta figure that out. So anyway, that's one, I'll just start my pen again. So that's two pens. Um, number two, we have to foster dialogue if it's possible, right? And, and this is a very difficult challenge to do. 14:57 I had a, um, , a friend of mine does workshops, and they went in and, and these women went to the manager and they said, Hey, we want for the women's group, we want a leadership development. This person come in and do it. And then says, look, you can do it, but then you also gotta do one for the guys, right? Like, if you want to do that, we're gonna be equitable and try and do the right thing. 15:16 They said, fine. So the women's leadership one was mobbed, nobody showed up to the men's one. And the women are like, look, we gave a men's one, nobody showed up. Um, but it was called Why your toxic masculinity is ruining the Office, or something like that. And so they created it for the men, but it was very , right? So we have to be careful about the way that we're accusing individuals, right? 15:36 We take this personally and we do this type of work. Um, so there is a right and wrong way to go about it. We have to be smart with the way that we, we talk about all of these things and, and we talk about it with, try to remove the emotion from it and just talk about the logical look. You've got a fruit salad that's full of just, you know, cantaloupe. You gotta add strawberries and, and blueberries. 15:56 You might have to take some cantaloupe out of it, and that's it. Then you have a good fruit salad. So that's it. We want the flavor, we want the changes, we want diversity. And that's, you know, it's an important thing. And there's still value that you can bring. And, and maybe we have to change the mentality of our people in terms of is it status, is it role title, is it, you know, do we change? 16:12 And, and this is the good work that we're doing with, with the corporate clients, is we're restructuring the way we think about people and the way we think about, um, accountability and agency and, and what people can do. And, um, so that will work itself out in the wash, but we still have to address it. Help them also as an idea to become agents of this change, to be involved with it. 16:32 Don't just have this change thrust upon them, have them be active components of it. A lot of white guys are really into this and really wanna be helpful. And this is another way that we can, we can do, um, bring more value to diversity and inclusion programs, is that they do have a voice. And as we rethink the workplace, that can provide value as well. So, more to come on this and, and I have a lot more thoughts, and I'm gonna still articulate them. 16:54 I'm interested in yours. Um, but for leadership, recognize it's a challenge. How we communicate it, how we share it, how we talk about it is incredibly important. It's a delicate issue. Um, but most guys really can't feel like they could talk about it. And so I'll say for you, why not? Who cares? And let's see what, let's see what could come out of it. So, um, this is beyond talking points. It's a big thing. 17:18 Good luck with it. I'm happy to talk more about it. I'm happy to talk about how we can accommodate them and bigger, um, and bigger types of discussions of people. And, and, uh, and as these diversity and inclusion programs do really, really good things, we can, we can figure out a solution for everybody. So good luck. Have a wonderful week and I'll see you next week. Thanks.

While we should encourage more Diversity and Inclusion programs, we should also encourage the dialogue to ensure that resentment doesn't build within the organization.

Ambition is dropping, mostly because we don't know what to be ambitious towards.

Identity is just one of the four key words for 2023.

Does anyone remember the time where we didn't know something and you had to be OK with it?  Seems like ages ago, or maybe I'm feeling my age. But thanks to the advent and growth of technology, it's easier than ever to obtain facts. The issue I have with this, is that we may be sacrificing wisdom for convenience.  The more we know, ironically, drives anxiety. It lessens curiosity. It quashes our desire to learn. Quite frankly, it makes life boring. If we have all the facts available to us, what's the point in asking questions?  It's one thing to know a fact. But you can get facts anywhere. What's more important, I would argue, is how to think. Reasoning, logic, deduction, interpretation – these are the skill sets that will help us move past just repetition and boredom.  It's a focus that will translate well to the workplace. What I come across often in the coaching world is that most people have insecurity and anxiety, and many of them try to cover it by giving advice or spouting facts. But the fact of the matter is, those who embrace their insecurity, ask really good questions and learn to focus on their ability to continue to learn are the best leaders in an organization.  Solutions will vary – but I'd say a good start is to begin by asking yourself questions, and going deeper beyond just the basic answer. Figuring out a belief system, why you believe things and understanding why others can believe the opposite, is a fun and productive philosophical exercise that will translate over into other areas of your life.  It's too strong to say facts are worthless, but without context and understanding, they don't have multiple legs to stand on. It's our understanding and interpretation that give facts meaning, and we only understand and interpret through questions.  Happy week! Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. You can also style every aspect of this content in the module Design settings and even apply custom CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings. Click Here for an Unedited Transcript Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for being here this week. As always, I appreciate your attention and your time, and your listening, and your follows and all of that good stuff. Today we're talking about the joy of not knowing. That's right. The joy of not knowing. We don't need to know all the answers to all of our questions. I was wistfully thinking the other day about how nice it was back in my, my fellow Gen X listeners. 0:28 I'm, I'm at the tail end of Gen X, but I identify with Gen X. I like my Gen X people. Gen X will remember this. Do you remember a time back where you just didn't know the answer to something and you had to be okay with it? It was almost this freeing kind of . It was, it was so nice to just not know. And we're, we're living now in a place where we're inundated with information. 0:51 We're inundated with facts. Everybody's got a fact. Everybody wants to tell you what they know, and they can find the study or statistic that shows it. But without context, the facts are irrelevant. And I'd argue that we're, we're sacrificing wisdom and intelligence for the, the idea of just knowing facts that anybody can find when they Google something. And I would argue that the need for reasoning, logic, understanding context, being able to think is far more important as we move forward in the society than it is to just no facts. 1:31 Cause anybody can get facts anywhere. And that's what I'm gonna talk about today. I'm gonna talk about how knowing everything like we do today, having information on our fingertips is actually driving more anxiety. Anxiety, um, it lessens our curiosity, it impacts our ability to be leaders. I'll talk about workplace impact and then maybe at the end of this, if I remember, and if I have time, um, and I'm so inclined, I'll give you some, some tidbits maybe that can help us get thinking about, um, how to think, thinking about how to think rather than, uh, just knowing facts. 2:02 So, um, like I said, I think my gen gen Xers will appreciate this and older, there was that time where, you know, you'd think of something and, and you would just never know it. And the only, you had to take a trip to the library, go through the Dewey decimal system to find some kind of book or an atlas or an encyclopedia to find it out. You actually had to do research. 2:22 And most of the time you're like, I just don't care enough to do that. And so it just went away. And that was nice. It was nice. You could focus on more things, more pertinent things, more impressive things, more relationship things. And you just, you didn't know when your friends were gonna show up. You didn't know when, uh, you know, your parents were gonna pick you up from the movie theater or anything else. 2:43 You could talk about it in general, uh, in in general context. But we, you know, there was a mystery to it. And there, there was a lot of fun to that. Um, now granted, having information on our fingertips has its benefits. I will say that. But, um, I, I would say we, we have this fake knowledge now of knowing facts. And you could find any fact online. Any fact that you wanna find, you could find it. 3:07 And there's true facts, and there's fake facts, and there's half true facts. And there are, there are facts that are only facts when included with the proper context and . So, so facts. The idea of a fact is, is almost subjective at this point. And so knowing facts, and, and you see this a lot in the coaching industry, um, people who try to present themselves as experts, everybody wants to be an expert. 3:35 Okay? We get this. Everybody wants to be an expert. Everybody wants to be wanted, everybody wants to be intelligent and seen as such. And that's great. So they spit out knowledge to almost present themselves in this way that they are intelligent. But without context and understanding the context or making it real for people to know how to implement these facts, it's almost irrelevant. The facts are pointless because it doesn't change behavior or doesn't drive home the message you're trying to drive home. 4:03 It just, you know, it's this false supporting of some BS statement so that we can present ourselves as experts in some particular type of way. And especially on, you know, you see this on TikTok all the time. I love the psychologists who come out and the psychiatrists and the neuroscientists who say, that's not what that means, right? To, to correct all these people. Or just say, the hippocampus does this and you, that means you're gonna do this. 4:27 And, um, it's such a misinterpretation of, of knowledge, um, to the point where it's damaging and it, it makes people change behavior in a very negative way. And, and you look ridiculous. I want you to know, you look ridiculous. . Um, there is, ironically, I think the more knowledge we have, the more anxiety we have. Um, ignorance is bliss. I do believe that to a certain extent, there is, uh, a certain bliss of ignorance. 4:57 It's why when people turn off social media, it's a cathartic experience. It's why when people turn off the news, it's cathartic. Not knowing what's going on and not being a hermit. I'm not talking about being a hermit, but there's, there's a scale of knowledge and information. We're being inundated with constant ads and information and facts on, on why you need this medication that you didn't even know you needed. And, uh, let me come in with this article and why you're doing things wrong. 5:25 You're shoveling your driveway wrong, and you're like, what the hell are you talking about? This is ridiculous. So, so the more facts were given, uh, I would say it is impacting us in a very negative way. Um, even right on down to the weather. Do we need to know that the storm's coming in a week when you're know, start, say, ruins your week, right? Well, it's gonna, you know, nice day. Yeah, but it's gonna rain this weekend, right? 5:48 We can't enjoy the moment we're in because we have so much knowledge as to what's coming down the pike, that, that we actually can't be present and we can't enjoy the people that are around us. And it drives this, this type of anxiety. And at the same time, it lessens our curiosity. And we need a sense, you know, I've said this before, multiple times. The reason kids are happy is because they're learning. 6:11 They have this sense of wonder. There are things that are new to them. When we have all these facts, we lose that sense of wonder. We have to have the facts, we have to have the answers. We have to do all this stuff. It drives more anxiety, and we care less. We're less curious. The last time you got really lost in something, it's probably because you were curious about it and learning, and you wanted to know a new answer. 6:32 And that's why we read things, and that's why we get into things. And that's why we, you know, I, I speak to so many Gen Z people and say, well, what are you reading right now? They're like, oh, I, I don't read books. I don't read books. Because they have all the facts that they need at their fingertips and what they're sacrificing. And this isn't a Gen Z, this isn't everybody challenge, okay? 6:52 I'm not, I'm not bashing Gen Z. Um, they don't have to read, right? Because they have all their information. There is a benefit to learning and reading and being curious, and that's your developing the capacity to think. And that's what's so important. We have to develop a capacity for reason. We have to develop a capacity for logic. We can't just repeat facts. You see this very much in politics, right? Let me tell you why this is so important and why you're wrong. 7:19 Facts are all about giving somebody, uh, i I bucket facts into this category of just giving advice and for coaches to be good. Again, I'm going back to my coaching. We never give advice. Good coaches never give advice, because advice is just an exercise of feeling superior to somebody else. Telling facts is just this false sense of superiority that we wish to have. And it's trying to mask our own insecurities and our ability to ask questions. 7:46 We don't want to be known as someone who doesn't know, but yet, ironically, the most secure people we know and the most effective leaders we know are those very people who could say, I don't know the answer to that. Tell me more. Ask me. You know, can I ask more questions? This is really good. Let's get curious. Let's dig more. Let's learn about the logic, the reasoning, the interpretation of this. What can we deduce from all of these facts that we find? 8:10 And how do we make that relevant today? The ability to do, you know, do that cognitive exercise, to do that thinking. That's what we need to really embrace and drive and, and really look for. And we can only do that when we don't know. We only have that, that desire to do that. When we don't know the facts, we don't know the answers. We don't stop at just knowing this ridiculous fact here. 8:36 And we say, all right, well, we did our job. We just told everyone how smart we were, and then we can move on. We need to deduce and make things real. Things evolve over time. Facts change over time. Facts change with context, right? You can make the same statement in two separate places. One time it's true, another time it's not. And depending on interpretation, that's one of those big muscles that we really have to learn and drive. 9:01 And, and if we wanna bring this to the workplace, uh, that's gonna separate the, the adults from the children, your ability to deduce. That's how you bring value, right? I, I've gone through this exercise at a few places, um, depending on the size of your company, right? But I was working at a company or working with a company, had about a thousand employees. I said, if you wanted to get rid of everyone, 200 employees, what would they be doing? 9:30 And they know that they could survive with, you know, one fifth of their employees. They'd be thinking very differently. They'd be doing very different type of work, much more cognitive. And they know those 200 people, they would keep those people who could think, right? That's gonna be, we're, we're not moving to a knowledge economy, right? Or maybe that's what we've got. We've got a knowledge economy. A knowledge economy is irrelevant, right? 9:52 We need a thinking economy that's very, very different, right? You have all the information you could want at your finger fingertips, but what makes you uniquely human is the ability to deduce and think and interpret, right? AI is gonna blow you outta the water of just pulling facts. It's got mountains amount of facts and can make decisions and do all of these things very quickly based on fact and trends and everything else. 10:17 But to be uniquely humanist, to think and to be cognitive. And that comes from not knowing. That's where we need to focus. That's learning mindset, that's asking really good questions. When we think about our best leaders and the most productive individuals, the people who are creating new things, the people who are bringing value to work, the people who are, uh, creating new processes. And those are the thinkers. They're not just repeating the way we've always done things. 10:45 They're not repeating, well, this is how it works. This is fact. They can interpret deduce question, ask really good questions, and be really, really curious. If you've worked with me. You know, I always talk about the, the question, does anybody know what a real question is? And most people don't know what a real question is. A question is a request for information where you legitimately do not know the answer, and you want the answer. 11:11 Very, very important to make that distinction of, I'm really curious. Otherwise, it's just a judgemental statement. And when we're trying to mask anxiety, when we're trying to spit facts, when we're trying to just tell people why they're wrong, why we're trying to tell people, uh, advice and say, this is what you should do, and I think you should do that, and this is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's our own insecurity. 11:32 It's, it's trying to feel superior over other people. Everybody sat in a meeting where somebody asks someone for feedback, they're very quick to say, well, we can't do it because of X and we can't do it because of y. Right? That's their own insecurity. They never go first to Well, it's possible, but right? They, they're never open to that. That's a stressor. They're insecure. It's the first thing that you notice about ineffective leadership is they always tell you why something can't be done. 12:00 And so not knowing, um, is a blessing. It's a blessing. I don't fully appreciate, I I didn't really fully appreciate the blessing until recently. And the more I've been talking about it with people, you know, I don't watch television. Well, I do a little bit, but not, you know, in, in the other way. Um, it's nice to not know what's going on in general. You know, as a matter, I'm still engaged in my community. 12:24 I've got my people, I've got my clients, I've got my family. I, you know, I'm not a hermit, but I don't need to know everything. Although I do love spitting facts. I do love the random facts. Everybody does. But the reason we love the random facts is because we've learned something, right? We say, oh, that's shocking that I wouldn't have thought of that. And oh, that's very interesting. It's a curiosity thing. 12:46 And we, we tap into our learning and that's why, why we like to do it. So, um, a few episodes go, I would encourage you to do the believability episode. Listen to the believability episode. If you haven't done it, that one resonated with a lot of people, because that's a differentiator in the workplace as well. And that comes from not knowing believability. There's an authenticity to believability. In order to be believable, you have to build this capacity to be believable. 13:12 It's not just enough to be authentic, it's not just enough to know things and how things work. We have to be believable. And we become believable by, by connecting with other people and asking really, really good questions. And then that gives us some credibility. It brings authenticity to say, oh, I don't know everything, but I can deduce and bring more value to the fact that you actually know that's real value. And that's something that we should focus on. 13:37 So what are the solutions? How do we do this? How do we become a person who knows, but doesn't know a person who is valuable, not knowing everything, but can ask really, really good questions. And that's, you know, it's odd. We, we wanna be curious. We wanna know facts are fun, right? I love spitting facts. I love it. Um, I should have prepared some random facts, right? But I'm not, uh, , I didn't do that for this episode, so I'm sorry. 14:02 But the first one, the way to start is, you know, we have to learn to become philosophical. That's the first. And we have to, to work on our questions. And so I had asked, you know, what's the most interesting question you could come up with? And I'm not talking about, you know, does a straw have one or two holes? Um, although those are fun little conversations to have with your people. But what are really, really good questions you could ask yourself about anything that's going on in your world where you legitimately don't know the answer and you want to know the answer. 14:33 And if there's nothing that you want to know the answer to, we have a lot of thinking to do, right? Asking why, why do we do the things we do? That's part of self discovery, it's part of personal development, it's part of everything. And that's ultimately the meaning of life. The aim of life is self development. Uh, who said that the aim of life is self development. Dorian Gray, Oscar Wild said that Oscar Wild said, I think he did. 14:59 The aim of life is self development. Um, but, but how do we exercise reasoning and logic, our belief system, pure curiosity, just for the purpose of being curious. That is how we become a, a, a proponent of not knowing, not to just get to the end answer. Cuz there are no end answers, right? But how do we continue to exercise this muscle of being curious and asking questions? That's, we don't want to be the one who just knows all the answers. 15:28 That's boring. It's so boring. Life gets so incredibly boring when you have all the answers. So let's go find something to be curious about. That's my advice for the weekend. my advice, I always give advice, um, which is the opposite of what you actually want to do. But that's my thing when I go for a run, it's always asking questions. My reasoning, my deducing, why do I think this? Well, if I think this, well what does that mean for this? 15:55 And if I think that, well, what does that mean for this? And what do I believe in all of these questions? It's, it's a very heavy exercise. It's a very difficult one. Uh, but it's a, it's an awesome one. It makes life so, so interesting to not know. So let's get a little exciting. Let's get a little crazy. Let's not know something this week and get a little curious. That's just tons of fun. 16:15 So have a good week. I hope it was helpful. It's my wistful kind of going back to the, um, I mean, I guess it was late eighties when I was just kind of running around with people and, um, just not knowing anything. Like mid, mid eighties, late eighties, just run around, doesn't matter. Don't know anything. Um, but you had a lot of fun and part of it was a maturity cause you're a kid, right? 16:39 Um, but also it's, there's, there's some credibility to it. So have a great week. Enjoy. Thank you for paying attention. Thank you for your time. And uh, with that, I'll see you next week. Thanks.

Remember when we didn't know something and we had to be OK with it? It was a good thing.

Sometimes you meet a person and know they have a story that should be shared. And that's what happened with me and Dan MacQueen. I hesitated to put resiliency in the title because the word has been almost ruined due to the hyperbolic nature of our click-bait world. Organizations preach “resiliency,” but it's more of a “barrel forward” rather than a “be strong and bounce back” type of resiliency. Dan has real resilience. We THINK we work hard. We THINK we have problems. We THINK our challenges are insurmountable and frustrating. But sometimes, when we hear a story like Dan's, we recognize that we have things pretty good. Dan's got gems. From his commentary on accountability to “post-traumatic growth;” from constructive optimism to screaming, “Can't you see I'm learning here!?” – there is much to think about and translate to your world after hearing his story. This is more than just a change in mindset. I'd say it's a change in being. Hopefully, the lessons you can pull from this episode can make change without having to go through trauma like Dan's. More from Dan MacQueen Web www.macqueendan.com Instagram @macqueendan Twitter  @macqueedan LinkedIn Daniel MacQueen Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. You can also style every aspect of this content in the module Design settings and even apply custom CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings. Click here for an unedited transcript of the podcast. I'm Jim Frawley, and this is Bellwether. Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for joining us this week. This week we have a guest and I like to bring on guests. And I think if you look at all the guests that I have, they're always extremely valuable guests because I vet them out for you. I know that they have something valuable to give to you, and this week is certainly no different. As we get into the holiday seasons, as we get into all of the, the craziness of the world and everyone's very stressed and, and we hear about all the things we're supposed to be at work, we hear about all of the things like resiliency and all these buzzwords. 1:00 Um, they bother me because I don't feel like they have the proper context and, um, they don't really hit the mark in the way that they should. And so this week's guest is going to teach us in a very real way what resiliency is. And I think it's gonna be a fantastic level of perspective and a lot to learn. I've had a, a couple quick conversations with him. I've learned a lot already. 1:24 I'm very happy to have here today, Dan McQueen. Dan, welcome to the Bellwether Hub Podcast. Thank you so much for having me. So I want, Dan's got a story, which is unlike stories you've heard before. So Dan, I want you to cue everything up. We're gonna start with the story, share your story so that we can then pepper you with questions afterward. But we need that context because it's, uh, it's pretty wild ride. 1:49 So I'm gonna turn it over to you. Please tell your story. Thanks Jim. So, hello everyone. My name's Dan McQueen. Uh, until recently I was living in London, Jolly old. I moved back in September, but the story kind of takes place in 2014. I was having these headaches that got worse over a few weeks. I went to Annie twice. For those of you don't know, Annie is accident emergency in the uk. 2:13 You know, thinking these headaches were kind of serious. I should get them checked out. And I was told, Oh, no, no, they seem like they're vertigo. We've gotten some tests, they don't seem that serious. We'll send you home. They gave me some pills and they sent me home for that. But they told me on the way out if my headaches continued to get them checked at an optometrist, she's like, Okay, sure, whatever. 2:34 So the headaches persisted. They were getting real bad and I decided, You know what, I'm gonna get my eyes checked at an optometrist. Midway through the exam, he stopped it, which is not a casual move. He gave me a sealed envelope, also not a casual move, and told me to go directly to Morfield Hospital, which I did. Sort of, I stopped at home first to grab a book, Jack Richard book, actually by Lee Child. 3:00 Uh, my phone charger, some food I want somebody to eat and some supplies. But I was determinated to the bottom of what was happening with us. So Morefield Hospital turned into tear. Cross turned into, I was having brain surgery the next day because I had a non-cancerous cyst in my brain that needed to be operated on. So zero to 60 in, in a matter of hours, I'm deciding that I'm having brain tomorrow. 3:28 You know, I, I call my manager, message your friends, like, Hey, I'm having this tomorrow. Guess I won't be in Monday. Messaged my mom and she just retired. So she was able to come to London. So on June 21st, 2014, I was on the operating table. My mom was in the air flying to London, Something went wrong and had a massive bleeding. The brain of brain hemorrhage. I think the cyst burst when they operated. 3:53 So my mom lands and finds them in critical condition. I was in a coma for four weeks. What was in and outta consciousness for months after that, when all was said and done, I was learning how to walk, talk, and smile again. So, needless to say, this kind of rocked my world and rocked my family's world. Um, I remember waking up in the hospital with my brother, mom and dad around me, and, and I go, I can't talk. 4:20 Cause I had a breathing tube removed and I couldn't talk. And I go, Gimme a pen and paper. I write down, I point at my brother, I go, You point down. And I write down the pen and paper. I go, Get me out of here to my brother because I didn't think I had any insurance for this stuff. And I was thinking, you know, he'll bust me outta here. Let's get outta here. 4:43 So needless to say he didn't, and thank goodness he didn't. Cause I was in the hospital for months after that. But that's how things all kicked off for me, Jim, which is, so I could take this in many different directions. Um, one is the perspective on, obviously you didn't plan for this and obviously this kind of jacked up whatever plans you had eight years ago, and that's one, right? We never know when something like this could potentially happen. 5:16 But two is the recovery, right? I mean, uh, a bleeding in the brain, learning to walk, learning to talk, learning to smile again, and being able to then build a business, get back with your family, build a life, do all of these things after. I wanna talk about both of those. Um, where do you want , where do you wanna start? Talk to me first about the recovery, because if you're sitting in the hospital for months, um, obviously this is a, so you're in a coma for a month in and outta consciousness for months. 5:50 Recovery has to be intense. Talk to me a little bit about that. Yeah, for sure. So, you know, I was, my leg frozen at an angle in the icu, the intensive carry unit. So my left leg was essentially jacked up and I couldn't use it. I couldn't go ahead and walk. I was in a wheelchair, right? So getting in from the bed to the wheelchair took 30 minutes, then 25, then 20 and 15, then then 10, then seven and six and eight, then 10, then five. 6:20 Everything was difficult. Everything was hard. Earned wins. And it took forever to end that bloody wheelchair. But you keep chipping away at this. And then I was transferable to the Wilson Rehab Center. I remember telling my dad when this happened, you know, I made a few thoughts in my head, like strategies to how I'm gonna recover. And the first one was speed. And that was one that I identified earlier is like, this is crucial. 6:41 I need to go fast if I'm gonna go far. I told my dad, you know, you have to apply for these rehab centers. I go, Hey dad, make this happen. Thinking like, I don't know, he's gonna like grease the wheels. I make something happen. Like, get me in this rehab center asap. Cause I want to get after this rehab as clearly as I can. Now, I don't think you did, but I got into Wilson Rehab Center, which is great. 7:05 Uh, but when I first got to Wilson Rehab Center, I couldn't walk right? I know to walk in. So they were doing this experimental, I dunno if it's experimental, but they were doing this, this rehab where they inject your, your muscle with Botox, like the stuff you put in your lips and face for women, it kinda relaxes the muscle and allow to stretch it back to normal. So they use this needle. 7:26 It was probably about, well it's probably about this big to be honest, but it felt like it was a sword going in the back of your leg. And then they would give you this, um, I word this splint every night. Splint was like a cast, and now it was horrifically painful and I never whinged about anything in the hospital, but the splint, I would be like, Oh, this, this fucking splint. Um, I hated the splint because it was so bloody painful. 7:48 And I always say it's painful. And everyone goes, Okay, sure dad. I'm like, No, no, no. You have no idea how painful this was. I'll share a story with you now. Jim kind of talks about how painful the splint was. So the first time I wore the splint all the way through night, no issue, no stress, this will be easy. I thought this will be easy. I'm looking forward to, this will be great. 8:07 I'm stretching in the day and the nighttime, and then rehab during the day. The second night after 20 minutes, it was painful. After 30, it was dreadful. After 40 was unbearable, we took the splint off. But we decided to do one hour a night with the splint, because I wanted to walk, I wanted to get back to walking. And how I get back to walking was stretching the leg. So the third night they wrapped splint up, They gimme the clicker. 8:32 We set the time on the phone for one hour. Now the, the ward of the Wilson's in L shape, so small on this side, long on this side, okay? And after 10 minutes, it's painful. After 20, it's dreadful. After 30, it's unbearable. And I'm thinking, we're doing this for an hour. This is insanity. What was I thinking? An hour. This is ridiculous. I start passing the clicker back and forth to distract myself from the pain. 8:58 Now I have double vision, which means I can't see anything. I'm feeling this and I miss one of my tosses and it crashes on the floor. Shit. I look over the edge of the bed, I see the clicker on the floor, the solution to my problems on the floor. The only problem is I'm splinted up. I can't move. And the floor is about three and a half feet on the ground. Help help by yell. 9:22 Wilson Rehab Centers, this and L Shape, they're on the far side of the ward. They can't hear me. No one's coming. We're 30 minutes on the board, which means they're gonna come back and maybe, well, maybe 30, but maybe 40, maybe 50. They might have gone to heating for all I know, Jim, they might have gone forever. I don't know where they're gone. The solution to my problem's right there. The only problem is it's three and a half feet on the ground on the Oleum. 9:42 If I drop down under the bed, I, I, I did some quick mass in my mind, not my strong suit. I'll be honest with you, Jim and I decided that it's about a 50 50 chance, me breaking my arm, a 50 50 shot. So, but if I break my arm at least can click the clicker, get the splint off, and then they can fix my arm. If I don't go for the clicker, I'm stuck here waiting for them to come back and hoping kinda like a metaphor for this whole thing. 10:08 You can't wait for someone to come save you. So I decide to risk it and grab the clicker. I crash down in the heap, I flip the coin and the arm holds. I hammer the clicker click, expect them to come burst into the room to come to my rescue. Nay, they kind of strolled in five minutes later. What are you doing on the floor, Dan? Well, let's not worry about that right now. 10:29 Let's get the leg off, bleed the split off my leg and get me sorted out there. But I learned some lessons from this. Uh, the first being don't pass the clicker back and forth with double vision. That's a bad idea. That's a good lesson, That's a great lesson. Uh, I really recommend that. The second being do the splint up at the hip, not at the ankle so I could undo it. Should this happen again? 10:50 Luckily it never did. But like things like that, that you're always kind of learning and iterating on this, just as in life, like you, you realize like, I failed at this process. Let's do it better next time, better than yesterday is one thing that I always try to exhume or like to try and portray and like demonstrate. And this was a prime example of let's, you know, let's not make the same mistake twice or at least not three times, maybe twice sometimes. 11:18 But that's to show you how painful display was. I was willing to risk breaking my arm, flipping a coin for the arm 50 50, shot a break of my arm to get the splint off my leg because it was so painful. But it was, it was very much a grueling rehab process. Like I moved from the splint to walking on the Zimmer frame, which is a four post thing that you kind of lurch forward on. 11:40 And every step you take, Jim, it reminds you you're alive. I'll tell you that much. I had a grim on my face. There's a great photo I've got. I can pass it to your team afterwards. I've got this, like this, this scowl on my face where I'm just walking and trotting on. I moved up to the Ferrari, which is, um, a four wheeled walker that you kind of walk fast on, you can kind of waddle quickly on this. 12:04 And I moved up to Naked Walks. Now Naked Walk was walking without support, raids, just notice like gamification here. Like I'm kind of having fun while I'm doing this. And I kind of progressed the walking space, right? Like it was quite a, quite a progression there. But that should give us something to chat about there. Jim, is there anything that catches your eye? Well, yeah, it's, so one, people forget about how long an hour is right. 12:30 An hour takes forever when you're in an excruciating pain. And you know, I get annoyed when I have to sit and watch the kid for 10 minutes and they're yelling. But this is, you know, this is kind of a different element. But what's what I take away from that is, um, what you said, you can't wait for someone else to help you, right? When you calculate, you have to know what you have to do there. 12:51 There's a little bit about knowing what it's gonna take to get what you need, but there is an efficacy and accountability aspect in terms of, you know, I'm ultimately responsible for my comfort or helping myself in this moment. I'm ultimately responsible for this and this is my current situation. And, and now it's up to me to do this. Um, talk to me about how you're almost going for, you know, it goes beyond that. 13:16 It goes beyond falling outta the bed. It goes into now up to the Ferrari kinda walker, and it goes into the naked walks. Ultimately, this is you and you had to gamify and come with it in your mind. Talk to me about your mind process a little bit. Yeah. So it's not your fault, but it's your responsibility. It's not your fault, but it's your responsibility. So it's like, well, the drop from the record was probably my fault to be honest, but either way it's my responsibility to fix the solution. 13:44 Like, I gotta kind of resolve this. And the mindset was so key because your mindset's everything, right? Like, I'll share another story with you, Jim, that I think you're kind of, you're, you're teaming me up for. Here is something I call constructive optimism. And this is learning to walk and tune Broadway. This kinda goes to showcase the mindset that I've adopted this process soon to walk in tune Broadway, from the naked walks to the Zimmer frame, to the, to the naked walks, to walk in tune Broadway. 14:11 Now tuning Broadway, for those of you that don't know is in South London who they call up and coming, which means it's on the verge of like sketchiness. What kind of like sexing up that like developers can call it up and coming, which means like, like 10 years time will be popping, but it's been up and coming for 10 years. So you never know. But needless to say, it's a bit of a difficult place to learn to walk again. 14:34 I'm walking with a cane, I'm walking with an eye patch. I'm a unit out there while I'm Bambi Ice, to be honest, I turn the corner on Broadway the first time and get bumped and by someone pretty hard, stagger back and okay, cut off by someone else or someone bleeding on the sidewalk beside me. I'm like, this is wild place to how to walk. People kept bumping into me, crashing past me. 14:55 This is the worst place to learn to walk in the world. Can't you see? I'm trying to learn here. Can you see, I'm trying to walk here like, gimme a freaking slack, man. I was so frustrated and dejected by this because I'm trying real hard here and you guys aren't giving me any slack. But I was like, and I was like, this was days that I was dejecting, like,Oh, I gotta walk Broadway. 15:15 This place sucks. This is the worst place I'm gonna walk in the world. And then one day my perspective shifted. This isn't the worst place to learn how to walk in the world. This is the best place. Because if I can walk here, I can walk anywhere, bumping me, crash past me, bring it on, I look forward to my walks, I look forward to that contact because that's teaching me in the best place to how to walk in the world. 15:37 Now, tune Broadway didn't change, right? It's still tune Broadway, but it went from the worst to the best in my head. And my mood reflected that I began looking forward to my walks bumping into me, crash fasting, bringing on this is all I want. That's like an example of like how my mindset adapted to this process. Like if I'm, if I think about it differently, the outcome will be different. And I knew that, like, I think how I came up with this mindset shift was how am I gonna think through this problem? 16:09 I'm frustrated by walking into Broadway. How can I make it less crap in my mind, this is the worst place started to walk in the world. I'm like, well, why is the worst? Cause it's the most difficult. People bump into you, crash past you. Like, well, couldn't that also be the best? Because that way you're stress testing isn't the best place to walk in the world. I was like, well, maybe it is. 16:28 And then I started bringing out that mindset. And when I did that, my whole world changed. Like I, I began looking forward to those walks and, and when you look forward to what you're doing, it makes all the bloody difference. And I think that's through this whole process, I began shifting my perspective on like, well is this the worst or is this the best? And like, don't get me wrong, I'm not in delusions of this is like a good experience, but it's the experience you're in right now. 16:54 And like I said, it's not your fault, but it's your responsibility. So like I have the responsibility of learning to walk in and I can choose it for it to be the worst, or I can choose for it be the best, but I choose that and I want to choose it the best because then I can adapt this and take it on board. Hope that answers your question, Jim. Well it does. 17:13 Yeah. And it's, you know, it goes back to the responsibility, right? It's not your fault that you're learning to walk there, but it's your responsibility to do it. And you, I would say your mindset is part of that responsibility. We often talk about responsibility and accountability in terms of getting things done, but the way that we approach getting things done is also our responsibility as well. And you said something nice in there and you know, nobody would cut you slack. 17:38 And I also love where you say, Hey, I'm learning here, right? So if you were to take this out of the context and put it in anybody else's context in terms of learning a new role or learning something new, it's a vulnerable moment. It's a difficult moment and say, Hey, I'm learning here. Nobody's gonna cut you slack regardless. But it's still your responsibility to learn. It's still your responsibility to change that kind of mindset. 17:59 Do you have any, I mean, that sounds good. We hear people about positive mindset all the time and you just have to change the way you think. Um, any tips on what, you know, what made it easier for you to do that? Right? I like to give people the tangibles. Is it, you know, knowing that it's gonna get easier or knowing that this is the hardest and you're gonna find cooler places to go? 18:21 Or how do you find the way to enjoy something that you absolutely didn't look forward to? Well, thank you Jim. That's a great question. I think like I'm, I wouldn't say I'm an like an academic at all, but like I do think about things quite a lot and quite in my own mind. And I thought about this like as I mentioned, like this is the worst. Well, why is it the worst? 18:44 Break it down for me. Why is this the worst place? And I mention those reasons, like, well, people bump into you, they crash past you, it's crowded, it's dirty, it's busy, it's hectic. I'm like, well, if you're learning to walk again, wouldn't you wanna learn to walk in the, in that kind of environment? Because that's stress testing you in this difficult situation. You wanna be fed, spoon fed this stuff, You wanna be stress testing this in the worst environment in the world. 19:06 So in fact, it's not the worst, it's the best. I really made a conscious effort of thinking through this process and I knew that like, look, there's been a number of peaks and valleys in this process, Jim. And, and I knew that like my mindset was gonna be so key for all this, the way I thought about it is so huge. Like, there's a great quote from epics that I use quite a lot a through line in my talk. 19:26 As a matter of fact, it's not what happens to you, but how you react to it in the matters. It's not what happens to you, but how you react with the matters. And with the brain hemorrhage, that's like a, a big blow. It's like, okay, but it's not a death blow. And how can you react? How can you learn from this? How can you like stress test yourself to like pick the stuff on board? 19:48 Um, I guess to answer your question, like how would you reframe this? Like when you're lying in the hospital bed for hour than end and you got lots of time to think and I just thought about how can I beat this? How can I gamify this and make it more fun to, to accomplish these goals and walk? And like you mentioned, the Ferrari, the naked walks, like, I'm having fun here. Um, which is a big part of this process. 20:09 Like how can I make this fun to do? And I kind of reveling, like, I think like my friend introduced me to this, this concept of posttraumatic growth. I don't mean to jump ahead here, but I'll mention this briefly. And that's like, you know, this posttraumatic stress, which is like when you are, let's say you're in Afghanistan or something, like a night like a bomb goes off and you're, you carry that with you for years and, and it haunts you for years. 20:38 Posttraumatic growth kind when something bad happens, but you kind of raise up to the challenge and beyond that, so like now every time something bad happens, I raise up to it. So for instance, this past summer I got let go from my job at Hootsuite, which I was at for nine years. I got nothing but love for sweet, don't get me wrong, but losing your job is never a good vibe. Right now the stages of grieving are like five stages. 21:04 I've managed to kind of condense this down to like feeling shitty acceptance. Went for a booie lunch that afternoon. I went to the Apple store, I got a new computer cuz the next day I was hammering the speaking gig. What a great opportunity is for me to get my speaking career, going to speak organizations and companies about my perspective and mindset, how you can use this to be better than yesterday. I gave myself a lunch to feel bad and down. 21:31 And then I was like, you know what? We're getting afters tomorrow. We're getting s today. Like I went to the Apple store that day and the stages agreed have been kind of been condensed to like feeling bad and acceptance is at the bottom. And I kind just fast forward to acceptance because you can wish something didn't happen, but at the end of the day, it doesn't move you forward. You can wish all you want, but wishings not gonna do anything. 21:53 Wishing the brain hemorrhage didn't happen is not gonna do anything. Wishing the setback didn't happen is not gonna do anything. Wishing the job loss isn't gonna happen, isn't gonna do anything. I could be wishing this for like a year and then at end of that year I'll still be well at square one when I could have been taking steps to progress myself if you accept it and move forward, like everything's, everything's on me. 22:12 Everything's my fault, or at least my responsibilities. I mentioned like, it's not, my father lost my job, but it's my responsibility to do something about it now and now I get to pursue my speaking career that afternoon. So it's like the mindset's so key for this because if you believe it in yourself and you believe it in your soul, like your body will follow. And I'm not saying this as like lip service of like, you should do this and you should have this positive mindset of great vibes. 22:42 Like no, it's not, it's not woo-hoo on you. It's like this is how I live my life. This is how I progressed and navigated these situations. And they weren't easy, but it was simple to kind of navigate it because once you made that mind up, it's like, oh no, I'm not going right here. I'm going right around the corner. It's right around the bend. You kinda understand the road, you can kind of see the map and showcase where you want to go. 23:08 That's a rant and a half there, Jim. But I hope that gives you some context what I'm thinking about. No, it does and I love posttraumatic growth. It's, um, and it almost goes hand in hand where it's for anything, right? Whether it's a new venture, whether it's a job you hate, whether it's going to a networking event, it's how do I make this fun? How can I actually enjoy myself today? Because we've got to judge a mindset going into these things of misery and difficulty. 23:31 And, but logically it's, you know, you are an individual that was before, now you are an individual that had a brain hemorrhage, so it doesn't change anything. Um, but I almost feel like, you know, post-traumatic growth is almost like tolerance. The more you meet it, the more you're able to handle and the more you do it, the more you're able to, It's part of growing and learning after it. Would you agree with something like that? 23:57 A hundred percent. And also it's important to know the hardest thing you've ever been through is the hardest thing you've ever been through. So when I do my talk and it's like, well, I'm not gonna have a brain hemorrhage, so like I don't need to know your talk because that's not it. It's like, well sure, like a job loss and a brain hemorrhage is not the same thing, but the mindset you use to adapt to a brain hemorrhage can be used on someone who loses a job or loses a loved one or gets a diagnosis. 24:21 The adversity and resilience you need to fostering yourself to navigate this is the same, same steps. Like to understand what it is and to get that acceptance piece. Because the faster you can get to acceptance, the faster you can progress. Acceptance doesn't mean it's fair, doesn't mean it's even, doesn't mean it is justified, but it means it is what it is. Don't worry about what you can't control. Control the controllables. It's something that I always say. 24:45 And if you worry about stuff you can't control, you're not gonna get anywhere. You can just spin your tires forever and ever and ever. I just punt that if I can't control it, I punt it. I give zero zero f's about it. Like, I'm not worried about stuff I can't control. Can I influence it? Yes. No. If no, zero zero f's with that, if yes, then I worry about this and I and I take on more would I can do, um, I've lost track of your question now, Jim would hopefully that offers some perspective. 25:11 No, it does. Yeah. And it's, you know, as, as we think about the responsibility you have, we've talked before this about, you know, feeling sorry for yourself, right? And I feel like that's a step in between of situation happens. And then you've got the acceptance in between. There's the feeling. Sorry. Do you eliminate that or how do you overcome that? I mean, it's, it's one thing to say, Oh, we'll just have fun so I won't feel sorry for myself, but people deal with, you know, traumatic events, which shouldn't be skipped over. 25:41 I mean, what happened to you was a traumatic event and yet you're not feeling sorry for yourself, right? You're, you're flipping this into an opportunity, so how do you, and that, that's difficult. I guess everybody does it differently, but talk about feeling sorry for yourself I think would be something very relevant and you'd almost get the agency to do that where people would say, Yeah, I get it. Talk to me about, you know, feeling sorry for yourself. 26:03 Do you ever, and and how do you change that mindset? Well, I'll give you like the example of the lowest I've ever been in my life, Jim, which is, so the setback happened, I got back to walk and got back to work, um, for two months and then I had a second setback that happened. I was found unconscious in my flap by my mom. The sh that's in my brain had blocked leading to hydrocephalus or water on the brain. 26:30 It resulted in an ambulance ride, another bad haircut and a new medical alert bracelet. So I had traumatic brain surgery because the shunt blocked. And I woke up in the hospital for the second time here in the beeping of the, the, the heart rate monitors. Not the respirator this time, but the heart rate monitors is what, what happened? What happened? Like, well, Dan, you had a second setback, you need emergency brain surgeon. 26:53 Like what do you mean? He's like, Well, you're back in the hospital. This happened two days ago. You're working on getting back to normal. Like, so this happened again. Yeah, it's very rare. It happens less than 10% of case. And like, okay, and na was I low like all my progress, I just got back to work. And you're telling me that's ripped away from you. Like,like overnight I was, oh, talk about a pity party, man. 27:22 I was woes me for a couple days, couple of days of straw. Like, well this isn't fair, this isn't fair at all. Like, it's not fair. You're right. And where's that thinking gonna get you? Like I could be woes me poopy pants the whole time or I could just, you know what, I know how to build back better. I know how to do this. I've done this once before, this time I can walk so I'm not in the same position I would before I can get back to work and progressively build back towards whatever I'm doing. 27:51 I already been through rehab, so I wasn't entitled to go through rehab again, which is a big knock. I use all my own at home through like phone conferences or like in person meets at my home flat. Like that was tremendously low. And I gave myself a few days to feel bad and low, but I knew that at the end of the day, like I said, it's not my fault, but it's my responsibility. 28:13 No one, no one's coming to save you. Like if you want to get outta this hole, you're gonna have to chop wood carry water is what I say, which means like, get to work, like progressively get to work, chop wood, carry water, put the work in and get your perspective right to like build back up. Like it's not, And that was like, that was pretty low, Jim, I'm not gonna lie to you. 28:36 That was like, everyone's against me. Why is this, why is this happened to me? This isn't fair. And that's wrong, it's not fair, but at the end of the day, it's not gonna get you anywhere. I can say it's not fair to the home. Right. Bless you. Doesn't change anything. How about this, talk to me about, I didn't know you before this, obviously. Yeah. Um, how has this entire experience, cha, I mean, we know it changed you, okay, Yes, obviously, but how does it change your belief system? 29:12 Has it solidified one in, in your mind? Do you feel like you have a new perspective on responsibility? I'm sure you do, but you know, would you say that you're capable almost of more now than you were before based on mindset? Talk to me a little bit about your belief system and, and what's changed over the last eight years now? Thanks Jim. That's a good question. I think before this happened, I was really happy to go lucky guy. 29:38 I still am, but everything came easy to me, or at least I made it seem like it did. I kind of figured out a way to work things like with, with life, with work with girls. Like everything just kind of came easy to me. And then this brain hammer happenss and everything's stripped away and nothing's easy. You know, getting into a wheelchair takes 30 minutes and 25, then 20, then 15. Like, it's like every ounce of me is going into this. 30:06 And like, I really made effort not to show that I was trying before this happened. And after it happened, I want show that I'm trying because I am trying, I'm trying my damage to make this happen. My perspective's changed dramatically, Jim, it's like everything on me now. I, I've read this book, um, Extreme Ownership by Jaco Will, I'm not sure if you've read that one. Essentially it goes everything on me. Everything's my responsibility. 30:30 Everything's my fault. Everything's in my power to control and improve. And I'm kind of a self-help junkie. I, I love improving myself and, and finding little hacks to make things better and easier. So I've got a great morning routine. So I'll, I'll wake up early, go for exercise workout, go for a meditation, go for cold shower, like have these habits that I put in place to kind of make myself be better than yesterday. 31:00 So my perspective's changed tremendously, Jim, and it's been because of this experience, because I've had to navigate this, I've had to navigate this. If I didn't, I would wouldn't be here. I believe that I'm, I am where I am today because of the habits I put in place and I am where I am today because of the mindset I put in place to allow me those habits. Talk to me about your hacks. 31:21 Um, you talked a little bit about constructive optimism I think is probably a hack. You've got your morning routine and the habits, which is setting yourself up for success. Do you have any favorite hacks that you could share with people that you'd wanna, you know, is one of those your best or, or what would you wanna, what would you wanna share on that? I got one that I'll share with you, Jim, and one that I mentioned earlier, I think, uh, is called ice icebreakers, icebreakers. 31:48 So when you're walking with double vision and you're like, fatigue is a big thing with me and I'm seeing two, like I see two of you right now, right? So my brain's processing two and the mind the wheels are spinning. It's a lot of bandwidth and energy to like do this. Any chance I can say bandwidth, I do that because it allows me to be better for longer. I say that like I'm walking around at 75% battery and I wake up every minute. 32:14 I wake up is like 74, 73, 72. When I get below 50, I'm a less pleasant. Below 30, I'm a bit of a prick. I need to meditate to recharge and refresh that. But icebreaker is one thing that I use to like walking in a busy city. So you're from New York. I used to live in London. So the circuses in London are just out of bloody circus. Piccadilly Circus, Oxford Circus, Chaos. It's madness. 32:41 I founded this hack called an icebreaker. So what you wanna do is find the fellow pedestrian walk in your direction and walk behind them in their slip stream. And they're wake in their, in their ice break wake. If you would let them face the oncoming traffic and you walk behind them and that saves bandwidth because you're not dealing with the frontal abrasive walking through, you're getting the wake of their walking like an icebreaker would. 33:03 So like you just followed behind the icebreaker and this seems like a stupid hack and it is stupid, but like, it, it saves little bits of bandwidth and allows me to be better for longer. Because if I don't do this, if I'm the guy breaking the ice, it just drains your battery more. And that battery's so important to me now that I wanna protect it at all costs. And it's a fun way of me to identify these when I'm walking through the surfaces in London, like a, um, a stroller or a pram, a great icebreaker because it takes a lot of space, like a couple walking root iceberg. 33:36 Think about space, you walk behind them and let them take the frontal impact. I've also got another one, Jim, that I'll share with you is, um, timer on the phone. So, or alarm on the phone. Let's say if you remember something you wanted to do, you set the alarm on your phone, let's say, I don't know, it's 10 30 my time in Vancouver. So I set it for like three o'clock and writing on my phone saying, emailed Jim speaking assets. 34:01 That's alarm three 30. And then I, when the alarm goes off at three 30, I check my phone to know that, oh, I gotta email Jim the speaking assets and I would've forgotten that otherwise, or timer on my phone if I'm, you know, scrolling Instagram or, or uh, YouTube at nighttime before bed. I'll send my time for 10 minutes for 15 minutes when the timer goes off time to bed. Like I use the phone to help me be better and to remind me to keep on track. 34:31 So it's a way that I've kind of hacked my life because I need those hacks now because things aren't as easy as they used to be for me. A lot of work to keep this on the, on the tracks, right? And if I don't do those things, things slip and I don't wanna be slip. I'm trying to, trying to keep myself looking a certain way, presented a certain way, being a certain way. 34:52 Yeah, and it sounds, I mean if you were to take that metaphorically, it's almost your icebreaker could be your social network, your, um, use of technology in a way to keep you focused rather than distract your focus. Um, and it's just being intentional with all of the actions because right, we, everyone's got a drain battery. Um, and it's important to keep that focus and, and, and keep it at its max. What's, um, so you said before speaking assets. 35:19 Talk to me a little bit about what's next for you, How anything anyone could do to support you. I know you're, you're big on the speaking circuit now. Talk to me a little bit about that. Yeah, thanks Jim. Uh, I'm going into speaking full bo like I'm, I'm trying to make a difference and share my perspective and change your team's perspective. Like I've got like a whole treasure tro full of assets and hacks and mindsets and perspective that I can impart on your team to help 'em shift their perspective and, and shift how they view things. 35:52 I've identified a few problems that I can really help address regards to retention, helping your team understand, you know, what they've got, their perspective where they're at and help save you retention. Also culture. Uh, I really think I can impart someone into culture and understand what they've got and just how do they view things differently. That perspective of like the worst to the best help you impart that. In the last one, I think it really pairs the sales training. 36:18 Uh, we've spent a lot of money on sales training these days. See these big booms after the sales training, but after, after a few months, it reverts back to medium and it dips down. What's missing is the perspective and the mindset. You wire the house properly. Let me show you how to turn on the switch. If I can give your team the tools, the assets, the perspective needed to be better than yesterday, maybe that stays higher, longer, above the median. 36:42 But my passion speaking, Jim and I really wanna share the lessons learned because it would be a shame to leave these lessons learned on the sidelines of life. I paid for these in blood, sweat, and tears and I've fallen down seven times to get up eight and I'm busting my ass to make this happen. And I've, I've paid for these price, I've paid steep price for these and I paid them by touching the stove Nova Hot. 37:05 And sometimes I forget that it's hot and I touched it. Again. Let me tell your team that, uh, I want to, you know, I'm really driven to do this because I wanna make a difference and I wanna make, impart the lessons I've learned with your team. I think that's something I'd love for your audience, you know, feel, please feel free to reach out to me as a speaker. I've done a lot of online and in person speaking opportunities. 37:32 Uh, as I mentioned, the job loss this summer was a knock but not a death blow and a good opportunity for me to get the speaking going on, on as a full-time gig now. So that's the best way I can imagine Reju and that's, you know, best done over LinkedIn or websites can be uphold the next week. And that's queen dan.com. Perfect. Very good. So McQueen dan.com, find 'em on LinkedIn. We, we usually wrap these up, Dan, with book recommendations. 38:02 Uh, I got two for you man, and I got two questions for you afterwards, if you don't mind. Of course, you can ask away. I know you told me that before we started recording and I'm very nervous about what your questions are going to be. So I had two books for you. One fiction, one non-fiction. The first is a nonfiction. You heard of this one No Spark. So it's like a Myers Briggs test, but it's like a more modified version. 38:25 Help you identify what lights you up in work. So for instance, my work sparko type is the sage or the advisors, the my type and the sage is my shadow. And the essentialist is my anti type, which means like I get drained by doing like admins, but I get, I get really fired up by offering advice or, or listening and offering some perspective on both elements of that. So that's my nonfiction, which is good that you're getting into speaking now, by the way. 38:55 Very good. Exactly. Yep, exactly. It's a good fit, right? Yep. And my fiction is actually a book my dad wrote. Oh, nice. Called Hero Haters. This came out recently. It's a, it's a, it's a thrill book based on, um, a gripping tale of uh, an author who gets, you know, part of the hero medals. They start disappearing. There's a big mystery around, this is his first book. He was a journalist for his whole career and his first publish book. 39:27 He is getting a lot of good reviews on this. You can buy this on Amazon or Good Reads or Indigo in Canada, but it's called Hero Haters. And I really recommend this. I haven't finished it myself. I'm working my way through it, but it's a great book. I will read it. That's perfect. Uh, Jim, can I ask you a few questions? Do it. You ready for this? You've been ready. Um, so question one, if you could go back in time, you go back in time and ask your younger self or tell your younger self some hacks or truths about podcasting before you started this, what would they be? 40:07 From what you know now, um, truths about podcasting you've learned about podcasting With what I've learned about one, number one is just get started because nobody's gonna listen to it at the beginning. So you can always make your practice ones that if you don't like it, you can delete it. But as long as you take the effort to put it in and you get the practice down, eventually you'll put it out. 40:33 That's one too. When you do put it out and people do listen to it, nobody's gonna give you the negative feedback you thought you were gonna get. Right. And people are incredibly supportive and that's great. Um, and so I guess if I were to wrap that up is do it. Take that risk and don't worry what other people are doing because it's not a race. Build your own. That would be my advice. 40:57 That's a good question. See a pretty easy question. Pretty easy question. Second one. Yeah. Um, you've spoken to a wide variety of guests around a wide variety of subject matters. What are some lessons you've learned yourself from these interviews that you like hold dear to your heart and you kind of take on board with your, in your everyday life? Um, everyone on the planet has something interesting to share and it's, um,you know, if you look at my guests, the majority of my guests, uh, are normal people in extraordinary circumstances or with really good just things that we don't really focus on, right? 41:45 All the way back to my first episode on, uh, a guy who does lean, he's a good friend of mine in a bank, how he implemented lean processes into his house to keep the family organized. I thought it was super awesome. Um, friends who are public speaking coaches giving their advice, people like you who have had incredible things happen to them and how they're resilient in a real resiliency way and have come back and could share their wisdom. 42:09 Um, everybody on the planet has something excellent to share would be my my one thing to say to that. Um, and that's probably what I take away from all my guests. Jim, that's fantastic. I hope I answered them okay. No, those was a very good question. Thank you. Very good answers. Thank you. I think they're really good to know because you've had the experience of speaking with so many people. I was really curious to see what Latin with you and what was a big takeaway. 42:34 That's good to know. Everyone's got something interested to say. I like their laugh. They do. Yeah. It's, you know, they just don't know to say it. Um, or they don't necessarily have the opportunity. But Dan, you had the opportunity today and I appreciate it. This is, um, this is, you know, it's an incredible story and it's an amazing lesson. And as things go so quickly, if anything it'll make someone hear this reevaluate what's important, reevaluate their own particular situation, get some good perspective on, you know, the difficulties that, that we could be facing and everything else. 43:10 If I made Jim, Yeah, life happens for you, not to you. Mm-hmm.. And I believe that with all my heart. Like, I get up every day and I'm like, I get to do this. And you know, stuff can happen to you that kind of sets you back and it's like, you know what, You get to do this, you get to navigate through this difficult time. And now I feel not invincible cause that's the wrong word, but like, what are you gonna come at me with, man? 43:38 Like, what, what is the world gonna throw me that's gonna be so shocking and, and perplexing for me not to navigate? It's like, well, I'm losing my job this summer. Like, well that was a, that was a blow for sure. That's a heart blow. But like, compared to what I've been through, that's like a very minor blip on my radar. And like when you start addressing this difficult stuff, you start dealing able to realize that you can navigate this in a better way. 44:02 One hack, one more hack I wanna share with your team here. Jim, is cold showering? Yes. Sounds off putting. Sounds gross. I know I was a bit of an apprehensive guy myself back in the day. Now I shower and I had cold every day for two to three minutes and I had hyperventilate and I forced myself to go into a stressful state. And I get outta that shower and you're still warm from the shower, but you get little, little sleeve of cold on and you just feel invigorated and, and take on the day. 44:34 But you're making yourself go into that hardship every day on purpose. That one you face in real life. You can navigate this in a much more pragmatic and thoughtful way. I'm telling you this, try the cold shower, Jim, have you tried this cold shower before? I I do a cold shower every morning. Absolutely. You start I started it during the pandemic, I start warm and then at the end I turn it to cold.

Dan has a story worth hearing that adds a good level of perspective.

A month ago, I published an article on HR.com regarding how we measure the value of coaches and hold them accountable.  It's been an ongoing discussion in the tiny world of coaching – this challenge of showing value and ROI on what are typically “soft skills” and items difficult to measure.  But what's rarely discussed is how we hold coaches accountable for the promises of development that they make.  We've seen the news recently of layoffs and changes happening across numerous industries. And what I'm seeing based on this is an increase in individuals looking to pay for coaches out of their own pockets – either they are looking to better position themselves amid layoffs within a company, or are looking for a career coach to help them land their next gig.  If you happen to be in this camp, or, if you work with coaches or a coaching program in your organization, I would encourage you to move beyond just the ROI conversation (it's still needed!) and move the discussion to accountability as well. For any coaching engagement to be truly successful, all three parties need to be accountable: coach, client and organization.  Vulnerable people often look for a guru, and there is no shortage of those in the coaching world. However, when everyone claims to be an expert or offers a promise to the yellow brick road, they should be held accountable for what they can and can't deliver.  As always – happy to chat about how Bellwether approaches this philosophically and realistically – we guarantee success in our coaching engagements.  Thanks and have a great week! Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. You can also style every aspect of this content in the module Design settings and even apply custom CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings. Click here for an unedited transcript of the podcast Welcome to Bellwether. Thank you for joining this week. This is take, I think this is my fourth take doing this episode. So we're just gonna run with it. And I don't care if it just cuts off in the middle of it. One time my recorder turned off cause the battery died another time. Something I was, whatever. Here we're talking about coaching, we're talking about firing all the coaches. This is gonna be very relevant for you and it's gonna be very relevant for your businesses. 0:25 And, um, and it's an important topic because a lot of people need it. And it's, it's, you know, I'll tell you why. Let me just tell you why the world is, is buckling and it's a difficult place to be right now. And there are a lot of people, I'm having a lot of conversations from a developmental standpoint. Um, people are either looking to invest in themselves to paying outta pocket for coaches, uh, to make sure that they're positioned well before layoffs happen. 0:53 It's a little too late for that, but people are making that investment right now. How do I do it? Who do I talk to? I'm having a lot of, uh, conversations like that. They're also people looking for career coaches who I don't typically work with, but I, I'll refer them if you're looking for that. Um, who unfortunately were wrapped up in the layoffs, all kinds of layoffs. I get a lot of those phone calls as well. 1:13 Um, and so I, I recently wrote an article, um, I I, I called it Fire All the Coaches and they, they very prudently changed the name of it to questioning the ROI or, or something along those lines. Um, I'll put a link to it under this on, on the Bellwether Hub site. Um, but basically it was the argument of, as we look at what everybody's looking to do and needing a coach, and there are a lot of vulnerable people, and I've, I've harped on this a lot and I apologize, but it's very important, and this aligns very much with the previous episode on advocating for yourself is, um, there are a lot of vulnerable people who are looking for gurus. 1:55 And we need to make sure that we're holding these gurus accountable, right? For the promises of development that they're making. There's the old saying, if you can't do something, you teach. And if you can't teach, you coach. Um, and I remember when I first got started in coaching, people were like, Oh, really? You're a coach? Okay.You know, my half idiot cousin, um, who didn't graduate college became a coach. Uh, I've seen all kinds of coaches. 2:17 There's, there's career coaches, executive coaches, women's empowerment coaches. I just saw a social security coach the other day, wellness coaches, retirement coaches. There is a coach for anything and everything that you could possibly need and that's great . But, but, but, and I see this a lot in organizations and I get a lot of blank faces and I can't believe it hasn't hit them yet. Um, and I will drive this home for you. 2:48 If you are looking to spend money on you to invest in a coach, you're actually, it's not an investment in a coach. It's an investment in you. And that coach needs to deliver you an ROI that's acceptable to you, you that warrants the amount of money that you're paying them. If you want to pay someone a hundred bucks an hour to listen to your problems, to give you advice, that's fine, but you're getting a hundred dollars an hour kind of advice, right? 3:10 Good coaches are a lot more expensive than that. Um, but anyway, so that's what what spawned this conversation is I was talking to the head of field development at a bank and they're spending buku bucks on coaches. And I, I knew this guy from when I worked in corporate, he was very gracious with his time. I just wanted to hear his perspective. I wasn't pitching on anything. It was purely a, a friendly conversation. 3:34 And um, and he told me he was firing all their coaches, all the coaches that, that this, this company had, had hired to get their people all set up. And I said, Good, tell me more. That's great. Awesome. Fire. All the coaches, um, basically everyone that was going through coaching was doing worse than everyone who wasn't doing coaching. And I said, That's a good reason to fire the coaches, right? Um, not only are you losing the productivity because they're going off to sit in these coaching sessions, but they're also now doing worse. 4:04 So they're actually doing damage, right? Whoever these coaches were, then he told me how much he was paying for the coaches, and I almost choked. I laughed at him a little bit, um, cuz I didn't think he was serious. And then I realized he was serious. And then I tried to back it back a little bit and I think I kind of pissed him off. Um, I couldn't believe the amount of money they were spending on coaches. 4:24 Um, and ultimately I told them in a very nice way, it's your own fault, right? They were holding, there was no accountability on the coaches that they were spending hundreds of thousands of dollars on for these coaches, for all these advisors and all these other people. Um, not one success metric was defined. Not one way that they knew that this was a good investment. And the only way they figured it out was that they decided to take a look and said, Oh, these people are actually doing worse. 4:50 Okay? There was no set goal for, for the engagement. And, and then it formed a lot for me as I was setting up my program, um, because I've had similar conversations over time. Is there are these promises of what we can do. And you say, Well, how do you measure and say, Oh, well you can't really measure leadership. Well know when we see it. You know, they say all these things, but there is, you know, if we're making an investment, especially individuals who are paying out of their own pocket right now, you are the one who's responsible for dictating success and what you expect of the coach. 5:25 If you hire someone to fix your computer, you have an expectation that they're going to fix your computer and you're gonna know that it's fixed and it's very clearly defined. My computer now works. It's a little more difficult when we're dealing with these intangible types of things. And so you have to tie it to behavior and you have to tie it to all these different things. And there are ways to establish an ROI for these intangible things that you're not able to really measure. 5:50 Um, so I put this out there for those in hr, those executives who are looking for coaches for their teams, those individuals looking for coaching for themselves. Um, I don't take clients unless I know that you could be helped, that I can help you. Um, I have fired three clients because it didn't work and I gave them the money back. Um, and, and again, this is, you know, we're dealing with vulnerable people right now who need help. 6:20 And so I think it's very important for you to go into any kind of coaching engagement. And this is an advocating conversation for you. And this is for beyond coaching, right? This is a metaphor. Everything I talk about could be a metaphor you can go into so many different things is you are spending money. How are you going to know that this was money well spent? And how are how are you going to measure this? 6:43 Coaching works? Coaching works, it works. Uh, and it's very good and it's necessary. Coaching is necessary right now because the world is changing so incredibly fast. Um, we need someone to push our boundaries. We need someone to challenge our thinking. We need someone to question our judgements. We need someone to teach us how to move up in an organization, how to communicate and behave at much senior level, uh, senior levels of the organization, how to think in more of an enterprise fashion versus the smaller teams that, that we've been working in. 7:15 Um, how to communicate at different levels. Uh, and so we need coaches, we need good coaches. And if you are thinking of getting a coach, if you are thinking of doing any other kind of investment in you, which I think more people are going to be doing, and I think people are gonna be smarter and a little more tighter with their purse strings. Um, we have to figure out a measurable way to know that your coach is good. 7:43 Uh, anybody could promise anything. And there are a lot of, of snake oil salesman out there. And so I would encourage you to ask for the guarantee, ask for them to guarantee success. Uh, we guarantee success. And if you don't hit it, you get the money back. So what I told the guy at the bank who was so angry, I said, Here's how you should have structured your, your coaching engagement. The organization's paying the bill, so they're being held accountable, The person being coached, you should hold accountable in some way because you're investing in them to change some kind of behavior. 8:13 And the coach has to be held accountable. So what you do is you have the individual pay the coach half, and if the coaching individual can figure out and get to whatever they gotta do, then the organization comes in and pays them both back. That's how you do it. Coach doesn't get paid, uh, the full thing. If they don't hit their goals, the individual gets their money back. So it actually is cost, it costs neutral to them, and then the bank gets the ROI because they're changing the behaviors and getting the revenue and doing all that other stuff. 8:40 So, um, for those, I don't wanna spend, I don't wanna harp too much on that little philosophy, but if you are thinking about coaching and setting up a coaching program, I'm happy to go into a lot of details on that and the way that we structure our contracts and everything else. Um, but it's the wild west out there and, and everyone's capable of doing great things. We just need a little bit of push and hold people accountable for the promises of development that they're making. 9:05 It's the only thing I'm gonna say. And we, we need to hold everybody accountable for the things that they're saying people aren't really thinking. And, um,you know, if you're gonna make a promise, you gotta deliver. And that's what I'll leave you with . It's a quick episode today. I hope this thing doesn't die again. Um, it's a little zoom recorder, but uh, have a great week. Um, think about your coaching, think about your development, and think about ways that you can invest in you and get a really big roi, whether it's for you or for your company, for anybody else. 9:39 And I'm, as always, I'm happy to talk about it. So have a great week. Enjoy. Thank you for listening to my little rant. And next week I've got an interview, uh, with a very incredible individual who's overcome some incredible stuff. Uh, Dan McQueen will be on the episode, uh, The Bellwether Hub Podcast, so more on that and more blog posts and everything else on bellwetherhub.com. As always, I'll talk to you soon.

Looking for a coach? It's up to you to hold them accountable for what they promise.

Up this week: How to Advocate for Yourself.  I recognize it's not something we typically think about. We see change happening, we get frustrated, we look externally at what others have or have not done, we blame and move on.  In addition, we are finding that more and more everything is done for us – technology makes everything easy. I speak to many groups who “defer to others,” i.e. wait for someone else to do things for us.  The problem with this approach is multi-faceted – we can't expect others to subscribe to our individual timelines and needs. Just because we find something important for us, others would see a different perspective more important to themselves. I think of people trying to buy houses today, frustrated that so many people have “bought the Airbnbs and jacked up the housing prices while lowering inventory.”  It's a problem vs. circumstance challenge: problems we can solve, circumstances we must respond to. And 99% of our “problems” are actually just circumstances.  While there is a collective general sentiment and group need to accommodate a bigger picture, we still have an accountability to ourselves to ensure that we are doing what's best for ourselves … and putting our best out there to get it. This requires us to be educated, be curious, do the work on what we believe, understand that beliefs don't mean truths … and so much more.  Advocating for yourself isn't just screaming about what you want. It's about asking good questions and making sure your questions are answered in a way that you can understand. We may not like the answers … but such is life.  Lots to think about as we set ourselves up for success, but finding your voice is an important first step.  Enjoy the week!  Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. You can also style every aspect of this content in the module Design settings and even apply custom CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings. Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast 3,2, 1. Welcome to Bellwether, episode 109, The topic today, How to advocate for yourself. And it's a big topic, very pressing today. I feel like, you know, big picture, I'll just jump right into it. I'm just gonna jump right into it today. Big picture, everything is done for us, and I think that's dangerous and we don't have to work for anything anymore. And one of the big tenants that I realize a little too late, or you hear it and you don't internalize it too much, is that we are accountable. 0:46 We are accountable, period. But we're accountable to ourselves above all others. And we have a responsibility for ourselves above all others. And, you know, we talk about ethical philosophy, do what's best for others, and, and you become good yourself, and yada yada yada, and all that stuff. And that's true. But I like to flip that. And it's kind of what I wrote the book on. It's what I, what I had talked about other times, uh, a lot of other times is, you know, I would argue that ethical philosophy has a backwards, where you have an obligation to focus on yourself so that you can be in service to other people. 1:23 So they're getting your best. And part of that, uh, is, is advocating for yourself and making sure you are getting what you need and getting what's what's appropriate. And too often we defer to others and expect others to be doing what's in our best interests. Now, this can quickly go down into a rabbit hole of . What's the appropriate limit of, uh, what's best for me versus the, the bigger world? I'm looking at you anti-vaxxers. 1:57 Um, but, but we have to, we have to find that balance. We got a little spider here. Hello. Um, and so, you know, there are a few different angles to think about here. So when I think about everything's being done for us and we expect things to be done for us, and I think that's dangerous, and that gives us an expectation that things will be done for us in other types of, of scenarios, uh, to often we defer, Oh, that person's an expert, so that's okay. 2:28 Um, but we expect other people to subscribe to what we need, and we don't necessarily question it. Um, oftentimes we're told we're supposed to be humble and just take what we're given that's wrong. Uh, which you've heard me talk about the humility. And, and I say it's, it's not wrong to be humble. I think a lot of people misinterpret humility and that causes them to have ineffective actions. Um, so it's, I I would say it's wrong to be a lot of these things. 2:55 So it requires us to, to just think differently, but it gives us an additional responsibility. And that's what I want to talk about today. Um, because there is a, a much larger picture than ourselves. And so we can ask good questions. There's an appropriate way to advocate for ourselves, but at the same time, we have a responsibility to the larger world around us. And how do we find that balance in a really appropriate way? 3:19 You know, the big news this week was this professor at Princeton who got fired, not at Princeton. He used to be at Princeton. Now he is at nyu. He retired from Princeton. Now he is a, a chemistry professor at nyu. And he got fired because there was a petition of about 80 kids in his organic chemistry class or something who said that the class was too hard. And he got fired. And there are two people on both sides of the camp. 3:46 And the people, you know, they advocated. They said, Look, people are getting zeros on these tests. It's impossible to pass, and you're ruining our medical careers valid, I suppose. But then there were the people who worked with the teachers saying, Look, we gave them all these resources. It's more of a recent problem. It's the same class that we've had before. These people never opened the resources that we gave them. And so, you know, they tried to make these adaptations that people didn't adopt. 4:10 Other people were fine, who went through the extra stuff and did the extra work and, and kind of worked hard to do it. And so what's that balance to advocate for this group? Uh, and making sure that people are getting what they needed to be successful. Um, so you have an obligation to do work. You have an obligation to adapt. You have an obligation to, to mold yourself into what a larger picture is doing. 4:32 But at the same time, you have to ask for help and do what you need in, in, in advocating for yourself. So first, what does that mean? Let's, let's talk about what advocating for ourselves really means. Because, um, advocating is a big word. It's not just having, you know, complaining and having people do what you want. Um, it's making sure that people are answering what you need and asking, answering your questions, asking really good questions to make sure that you're getting what you, what you need. 5:00 This could be in the workplace, this could be medically, this could be, uh, educationally, it could be whatever, whatever you need. And when we, we talk about advocation, it's not about dictating your will on other people. That's not advocating for yourself, but it's openly and publicly supporting ourselves, which is different, very, very different than just imposing your will on everyone else. Um, we need to speak up when something doesn't jive and we can ask really good questions. 5:35 And, and we recognize there may be a general, general sentiment of what's needed. May need a slight tweak for us. We need to make the tweak. That's okay. Um, there is a betterment for the the bigger collective group, but we can't assume that other people are thinking about us in the way that we think about us. So we have to advocate for ourselves within our structures. There are confines of the world that we live in. 6:00 Uh, we have a society and a responsibility to society within which we live a responsibility to the educational system within we, within which we live. That would be the NYU story. We have an allocation to, you know, have you just lowered the quality of education because this guy made it too hard, uh, and you fired him. Um, what are our own expectations of ourselves? And what are the expectations that we wanna hold for the people around us? 6:25 And these are questions we have to answer as individuals. Uh, when I think about it in the workplace, cause I always like to bring this to the workplace, to bring it to the workplace. Uh, when we think about we can't assume what other people are thinking about us. We hear a lot of these things all the time. And I hear it, especially in coaching. You know, someone will notice if I work hard enough, work hard, put your head down and you'll be rewarded. 6:49 Um, this person's the team leader, so they must know what's going on. Uh, we make a lot of these assumptions that are just wrong because we've heard these assumptions or we felt these assumptions over time. Maybe when we first got into the organization and we were young, we just assumed the manager knew what was going on, and we just did whatever it was. Uh, I was told since I was a little kid, work hard. 7:10 And people will notice. Um, yeah, they'll notice, but you're not gonna be rewarded for it. Uh, you're gonna be taking advantage of. And so, or you could be taking advantage of, it's not always true. You know, um, you know, you, you can work hard, but you also have to know how to navigate. It's your responsibility to navigate. People aren't necessarily taking advantage of you. You just haven't navigated in the right kind of way. 7:31 And that was my problem. Um, do I, I certainly wouldn't blame other people for that. Um, but it's, it's beyond the workplace as well. And when I think about, you know, how to take action, right? And this is ultimately what it comes down, we have an accountability to ourselves to take action in the best way for ourselves, right? So you can work really hard. Don't wait for someone to tell you and recognize cuz people are busy thinking about themselves. 7:58 How do you speak up and ask questions? You know, am I on the right path? How do I get to that next job? This is the next thing that I want. And articulate that, articulate what's best for you beyond work. I think a lot, and what really drove me to start thinking about this now that I'm like 10 minutes into the podcast is this constant discussion on housing. Um, nobody can buy a house right now for a lot of different reasons. 8:27 Uh, and so this is a big millennial problem, and I hate using the term millennial, but it's true. They're in their, you know, thirties and, and I guess they're in their thirties. That's the millennial age, the thirties. And this is when you buy houses, and this is when you start families and you do all that stuff. Pandemic hit everyone bought houses, prices weren't skyrocketing. Now interest rates are crazy. Nobody can afford a house. 8:47 You've got hedge funds, uh, investing in houses as a safe kind of way to, to funnel money for a down economy. So they're buying up all the, the houses. So the starter home is effectively gone. But the other thing, and you see people complaining about it, is a lot of millennials bought like seven houses and they're using them for Airbnb and everything else. And, um, and people are saying, Look, this is why I can't buy a house because you bought seven of 'em and you're running out on Airbnb. 9:14 This is bullshit. But guess what? Life lesson, um, you waited too long. Or, um, or I mean, to be fair, there's also people aren't making what they used to make. So that's, that's kind of a different story as well. But, you know, there is a, an accountability aspect of I can't buy a house because you should not be doing something and or you should be doing something or, you know, we're pointing our fingers. 9:40 And I hate it when somebody says, you should or I can't because you, um, and there are two, two things to think about. There are problems and there are circumstances and problems you could solve. 99% of our problems are not problems. They're circumstances. Okay? So problems you could solve, you can't solve the fact that other people are buying Airbnbs and trying to rent them out, okay? That's a circumstance in which you have to respond to problems, you could solve circumstances you respond to. 10:09 And so we can't dictate what other people need to do so we can do something we need to adapt. And, and when we say advocating for ourselves, it's not just speaking up, it's taking action for ourselves. And so this is the big, this is the big rub in terms of accountability and advocating in all of these things. All these a words is, uh, we need to think hard about what actions we could take. 10:36 We're gonna have to take some risks in terms of getting to where it is, getting to the next level at the workplace. Buying that house is buying house even, you know, this is, this gets into the fun philosophical stuff. Do you even really need to buy a house? Um, and how do you do it in really funky ways? Um, and this goes back to, you know, when I talk about belief systems and what do you really believe? 10:58 And can we question everything? What assumptions do we make? And can we do, you know, is a 5 29 really the best way to save for your kids when you've got such a narrow way to invest? If I were to put all this money away from my in a 5 29 for my kid, what's college gonna be like in 20 years? Right? Is it even gonna be a college? Why don't I just put it into a brokerage account And when they grow up, say, Hey, here's$500,000. 11:22 Start a business, right? Would that be a better way to, to set my kids up for success? Is college really setting your kids up for success? What assumptions are built into all of these frameworks that are around us? You need to think about what's best for you and your family. And it may not be all of these things that were set up for a general, you know, let's do this for the collective. 11:46 Good, that's fine. But you may need some tweaks and you may need to thumb your nose at some of those things that, you know, we have these assumptions on, on what it should be. So we have to take action and responsibility for getting ourselves up to success. Now, I will agree with you, the housing market's a bunch of, uh, bs right now. Thank God we bought a house so long ago. Um, and so I feel that pain, right? 12:08 It's, I'm not saying it's, you know, it's not your fault that you can't buy a house completely, um, or in some cases at all, right? I mean, I know these people who, who made decisions and they're paying off all these crazy student loans and they're, they're raising kids and they're doing all of these things. And, and there are some people would say, Well, you shouldn't have had kids and you shouldn't have gotten to college. 12:28 And, um, I think that's bogus. Don't say you should or shouldn't have people made decisions and, and you know, it's where they are today, okay? So don't tell someone what they should or shouldn't do. Um, but what I would say is, you know, it's now a response mechanism is how are you responding to the circumstance within which you find yourself? That's where accountability really lies. And that's where advocating for yourself really lies is past this past, okay, we've learned, right? 12:59 It's a life lesson. We find ourselves in this current situation. What decisions can we make today to advocate for ourselves for success tomorrow? And that's when, when we think about that is it comes down to a lot of questions. We have to ensure understanding of where we are. And we can't make all of the assumptions that other people are doing, uh, stuff for us. Uh, nobody can do it for us. You have to take control and you have to take action in order to make it. 13:24 So a little bit of a ramble today, but I think it's an important reminder, um, that life is, life gets easy with all this technology and things are done for us. You know, we get all our news just hand fed to us in the morning. We get all of our, you know, our refrigerator tweets us, um, or texts us when, um, we're low on carrots. Uh, you know, everything is done for us and we forget that we have a responsibility to take action and think for ourselves. 13:51 And so advocating for ourselves, thinking for ourselves, and making choices for ourselves are, uh, an incredibly important part of life. And that is true at home, in the workplace, um, and our financial decisions and everything else. So with that, I'm happy to help you think through it. I love thinking about the assumptions we make and, and just blowing them up and getting philosophical on those, you know, why, why do you need to own a car? 14:17 Why do you need, you know, to all do all of these types of things? Some of them you just have to, right? We get it. And you could think through it, you know, you could question it and still come to the same realization that the way it's set up is fine. That's okay. Uh, but it's a's a good exercise to think through it. So advocate, think, think, think, think, challenge the way you're thinking, uh, as winning the pool would say, think, think, think. 14:40 And um, yeah. Good luck. Have a great week. Enjoy your week. I'll talk to you soon. Thanks.

CEOs are taking more political stands than ever. Let's chat what it means for the business and their people.

If you know my podcast and posts, you know I generally avoid politics. As a general rule, my mindset is around productive dialogue, and with divisiveness today, I'm not looking to stir up the crazies on either side, thinking they are on a mission from God to tell me how I'm wrong.  This, similarly, has been the typical policy of organizations to follow this creed. Business was for work, not politics, and potentially alienating half of a staff or, worse, your client base, was not something most executives were interested in doing.  Times are changing. With information moving so quickly, and higher expectations of employees for their organization to “have their back,” executives are stuck between a rock and a hard place to navigate what's appropriate and best for the business, their people and the company's values.  We have typically thought of this in social impact areas. Companies that have been quite vocal about their values have often stood by them, living what they preach. The most recent example is Patagonia giving its company away in its mission to leave this planet better off.  But other topics are dicier. From the Me-Too movement, to the race discussions following George Floyd, to Roe vs. Wade, executives are balancing a split employee base, and doing what they can to stand up for certain beliefs. And, often, these beliefs are personal, blurring the line between the company and it's leader. In addition, beyond the challenge of should or shouldn't they, many executives are being pushed in a direction where silence is more damaging than picking a side. For larger, more visible companies, silence on bigger issues is met with a negative public perception. There is a bigger challenge, as I see it, and I call it the “sizzle vs. substance.” Executives who are ready with the talking points are out and in front of the story, but when we look back over the past few months, little has changed. Is the benefit of marketing and PR talking points enough for employees and the public, or will they expect to see follow through? And who defines what follow through is acceptable?  I think back to my time in corporate, working executive communications and putting together speaking points. That's the easy work; but actually building a program that follows the sizzle is where the rubber meets the road. As we put together these “vocal stands,” part of the internal discussion now must include how far the company is willing to go in support of it. Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. You can also style every aspect of this content in the module Design settings and even apply custom CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings. Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast I'm Jim Frawley and this is Bellwether. Welcome to bellwether episode, 108. We're gonna get into the 40 political stuff today. We're normally I won't normally, you know, when I have guests on the podcast, I always tell 'em leave politics out of it. Nobody wants to listen to anyone's political views. We're talking about productive things, how to set up businesses for, for success, how to do wonderful things. And so normally I, I leave the politics out on the side today. 0:59The question is, should we leave politics on the side, the new politics of the C-suite and what we're finding across the board are a lot of CEOs and other types of executives are taking political positions in very hot political topics and making corporate decisions based on that for their people. And the question is, should they, and I've got opinions on it, which I'm gonna tell you in a little bit, um, and these opinions have changed over time. 1:34It's interesting. It's, it's not a simple yes or no question when you really think about, you know, the, the struggles that come with being a senior executive, the challenges that come with being the leader of an organization, being in charge of so many people, being an example, all of the pressure that we put on our leaders. Now, all of a sudden, we take a look and say, well, maybe they should, or shouldn't have that political political view. 2:02It's not new for businesses to get involved in politics. It's not new. This has been around for a long time. Always. There's always money from businesses going into influence politics. What is new is the very visible way in which they do it. And it's, I'm gonna call it sizzle versus substance before the money would go to influence political decisions. Now it's more about a branding challenge and, and a lot of companies have had very active political movements throughout the years. 2:34And I think, you know, the first one you think about is Patagonia and their, their work to, you know, for climate change and, and preserving. And just recently, they gave the whole freaking company away to preserve a whole bunch of, uh, places. Um, and that's fine. I it's great, good for them. It's a, it's a wonderful thing. And I think it's, um, a very noble decision and, and they've been, uh, living their ideals for a very long, a very long time since the beginning. 3:03And I think this just aligns with who they are as a company. And I think it's fantastic and it's good for the world. And, and I think it's a good example. Um, so when we think about social impact, we think about Patagonia and a company that's living its ideals, and that's great, but now we see a lot of organizations try to kinda have the social impact or the credit of the social impact without actually doing something about the social impact. 3:33Um, because everyone's got an opinion now and, and everyone's able to, to talk about that opinion. And, um, if I think back over the last, I mean, we'll say decade because that's really the, this is when the new advent really started. It's even less than it's probably five years maybe. Um,you know, we think about the, the executives who spoke up around the me too movement inequality, right? Women's equality in the workplace, I'll say that women's equality in the workplace, that's one and they had opinions, valid opinions. 4:06And then you've got all of the discussion that came after George Floyd when George Floyd was murdered. And that was the racial discussions at work. Everyone had an opinion on that. Uh, a lot of it was we have to be listeners and everything else for, for that, um, Roe versus Wade that overturned recently, that was a big, hot topic. And, uh, executives jumped up and, and said, we're gonna, you know, we're opposed to it. 4:34And we're gonna fly our people and give them whatever they need to go wherever they need. And, um, that's when people started to say, Hey, you know, should you really be getting involved in this? And it's a, it's a very interesting dynamic of running a business and then also living the virtues and, and values that you espouse. And so, uh, I, I think it's noble, it's meant to be noble because you you're in charge of a number of people. 5:06Um, you have to do what's best for your people. Um, and so, so the question I'm gonna ask today is twofold. It's interesting. And two, one, should they, and two, I want to talk about the sizzle versus substance because we see a lot of people saying it, but there's no real follow through. There's a lot of talk after George Floyd. We didn't see anything. There's a lot of talk on the me too movement. 5:30Uh, we did see some of it. We did see some of it, but how does that continue? And, and, and how does that go? Um, and what does that do? So, so let's talk about, should they, traditionally, it's been good practice to not wait into politics and that's because social items generally weren't necessarily good for business. And also there was, you know, we didn't want to alienate people, a business doesn't wanna alienate half the people. 5:58If, if a business 10 years ago came out on Roe versus Wade or something like that, you've just lost half your customers. And we see it today. How many people are just trying to cancel a company because they did a vaccine mandate or something like that. Um, we saw that with, um,oh, what's the, I guess Carhartt did a vaccine mandate. And then people went bananas and then other people were like, well, so did Ford. 6:20You're gonna get rid of your F-150. Um, and so it's interesting how, since everyone has a voice, you can alienate an entire group of people. And then they're gonna say, we're boycotting your company. So there's a risk, there's real risk to taking a political stand, which even vaccinating your employees, isn't really a political stand, but it became a political stand. Um, and so there's a, so CEOs are kind of caught between this rock and a hard place on what do people expect from my company? 6:45What do my employees expect from my company? They don't always align what's best for my company. What's best for my employees that may not align with what they expect. And so how do you choose the right thing? Um, it was easy to ignore it a long time ago because ignorance was bliss and there was a lot we didn't know, and not everyone had an opinion and a way to express it. And that's great. 7:12Um, sometimes that's nice. Sometimes I pine for those days when, um, and I'm gonna do a podcast soon on the joy of not knowing and how ignorance was bliss. And, um, when we get these little bits of information today, suddenly everyone's an expert with an opinion. And as the world and information flow changes today, many executives are finding an obligation to say things and put out statements from the organization. Silence is no longer allowed. 7:40If you're not vocal enough, I've seen executives get attacked for not being vocal enough and not doing enough. You get punished for being silent, uh, which is right or wrong. So what do people do and, and how to do it, you need the business, but you also need to live up to the values that you tell your employees to have, or not that you tell your employees you have, but that you wish the organization to espouse. 8:06And when we think about people strategy, because now we're talking about it also includes this kind of people strategy in terms of are people proud to be working for an organization because the worker perspective has changed in terms of how we think about employees and are the younger employees more interested in organizations that take a stand and have values and live up to those values and do that. And you know, when we think about people, um, my wife said it best a long time ago, and I keep saying it all the time. 8:37People want an organization that has their back, and that's beyond just saying, yes, you have a job and here's your paycheck. They want to believe and align themselves with an organization. When we go to work, our work is part of our identity. And when an organization gets political, suddenly that organization's politics becomes part of our identity for writer for wrong. And do you agree with those politics for right or for wrong? 9:08And we, I talked a little bit about it with what was happening with Elon Musk. I don't know if I did it on a podcast or was an interview, um, is basically when Elon Musk comes out and talks on SpaceX or anything else, those employees now have to answer for Elon Musk because it's part of their identity. They work for that place. And now you have to answer all of these questions because Elon Musk runs his mouth on some crazy thing. 9:28Or Jeff Bezos buys another yacht. So everyone on Amazon kind of has to answer, oh, you work in Amazon. How's chip Bezos is, you know, it attacks your identity a little bit because you can ask anybody in their eighties, who are you as a person? One of the first things they're gonna say is the work they used to do. Oh, I'm a teacher, or I'm an engineer or I'm whatever. And even though they've been retired for 20 years, it's still part of your identity. 9:51And so now you have employees who can work from anywhere can do anything, can articulate their value anywhere can pick where they wanna work. A CEO now has to run a business, but also accommodate people who want to align who they are as an individual. And recognize that work is now part of their personal brand people as an individual now have personal brands, which sounds ridiculous, but it's true. And it becomes part of their identity. 10:21And so should they is not this really? Yes or no. I shouldn't. Because now CEOs as part of living up to the brand that we said, and I have aligned myself with your business, I expect you to be a champion of similar things that I do for right, or for wrong. Um, you have this idea of I'm gonna stand up for what I believe in. And, and, and when we go to psychological safety, people could talk about what they want and what they need in a very safe environment. 10:51This is part of building trust with your employees. So I can see it working in certain insists, from a people strategy perspective, to Wade, into politics and have opinions on politics. I could see it working, however, um, for it to work there has to, you have to do it in an authentic and substantive substantive way. Is that substantive sub substance. That's a hard word to say substantive way, um, because it will backfire very quickly if you don't. 11:28And so when I was talking to a few people about, should I talk about this? And you know, I wanna do a podcast on this. And, and as many CEOs who are listening to it, I I've got clients who are business owners and everything else. Um, as they sit through this and do this, um, and they decide whether or not they should, or shouldn't the first thing I heard from people when I was saying I was gonna do a podcast on this was not so much whether or not they should, or shouldn't what we've seen is we've seen a lot of people do it. 11:59And then it disappears. They get the Instagram video, they put out a little statement, they get the sizzle and then they're gone. And that was particularly relevant for a lot of people after George Floyd. Um, and we just call it about George Floyd, but the murder of George Floyd, um, a lot of people had opinions on we're gonna change culture and we're gonna do all of these things. And, um, it dies off because the work is really, really hard to change this. 12:27And it's also, sometimes the work is beyond what you can actually do in an organization. Sometimes the work is so pervasive in culture. How do you actually, you know, you can change different metrics and do different things inside your organization and, and start conversations and do these types of things. Uh, but after a while, where does it go and who do you champion to do this? And so diversity and inclusion is happening quite a bit in workplaces. 12:54Some are doing a good job. Some are not. Um, but, but it's like this marketing versus substance type of thing. It's, you know, as you're thinking about putting your name next to some of these causes in a noble way, okay, it's noble, you're standing up for what you believe in recognize that you now have a new obligation. Once you do that to follow through, and you can't just take this marketing sizzle and then not deliver because people will notice the people are getting very hip to this whole kind of Instagram reality. 13:35I'm seeing it's more and more people aren't buying it and for you to get credit for this. Cause that's what a lot of people are looking for. They look for credit, you're gonna have to follow through outside of the fact that it's the right thing to do. Um, so it's ultimately up to the individual, the executive are you living these all the time? I'll, I'll use Patagonia as an example. They live it. 13:59Um, they live what they say, you know what you're dealing with when you get Patagonia, you know, that that's their, their culture. That's what they, the owner, I don't know what his name is, but he's given up and he's bought acres and acres hectares of, uh, rain forest and, and locked them up from any kind of development and char and giving them away to charity to make sure that we're preserving stuff. 14:22He, the guy lives everything about, you know, what he says and what his company's values are. They live it. And he just did it again by giving away the company to charities and everything else gave the company away. It's amazing. And so if you are going to do this many other companies don't have that type of identity. Okay. And that's okay. Right. I mean, an accounting firm, what are you gonna do in an accounting firm or, or right. 14:45Like, okay, you can, you can pick whatever it is. Um, it's tough to find a cause. And do you need to find a cause, but when you've got accounting firm, one tow in one tow out, it's almost, what's the point. Um, and so you have to figure out what that identity is and what you wish your people to rally behind. Because when you want to get these people to trust your organization and rally in your organization and do more for your organization to be a part of it and promote it and bring other good people into your organization, culture is an important part of that. 15:21And what you stand for is an important part of it. Now I'm not saying, and this is probably a, a very good thing session and waited to the end, speak softly and carry a big stick is very important in my world, in my view. And so you can do these things without the marketing sizzle, you can do the diversity and inclusion. You can do the, you know, we want this cause, and this is very important to us without announcing it to the world. 15:50Right. And I see that a lot with banks who give massive amounts of money to these different types of places. Um, I see it with other types of companies, um, who are doing really good work and not getting any credit for it. And I love that. I love it because that's the stuff that makes a real difference. And so when you think about it, you know, internally they know internally the employees know, and they're part of it and they believe in it and everything. 16:14That's great. Um, and so there there's, again, the substance substantive substantive part, um, such a difficult word, the substance is, is what really matters. And that's what your people will get behind. Not just the sizzle, not just marching in front of cameras when they show up, um, not calling them to say, I have an opinion, and I have this statement ready to go when, when this happens, because you have to, um, you have to follow up and you have to do it. 16:44And so I guess that's more of a, a life lesson too, in terms of, you know, beyond just the politics of the C-suite it's, what do you really stand for and what do you really believe and are you willing to stand up for it? And so that's that so good luck with your decisions. I probably didn't solve it for you, but it's, it's, you know, me just kind of talking about all the things that you get to do and you get to think about, um, there are positives and negatives to both and making that decision is an important one. 17:12And it's a good one. And it's very much a cultural one in terms of the way you wish to espouse these, these types of things and, and approach these types of things. So have a great week enjoy it. The politics, the new politics of the C-suite are no longer just the internal politics. It's the external politics, tons of fun, such great things to think about, have a wonderful week, and I'll see you next week. 17:37Thanks. Thank you so much for listening. Now, do something for yourself. Bellwether is much more than just a podcast. Join us@bellwetherhub.com, where you can read riveting articles, view upcoming events, and connect with other interesting people. I look forward to seeing you out there soon.

Quiet Quitting and Firing: not new, but solvable. We need to understand the work dynamic to respond.

The buzz has been around for a bit this summer – first on quiet quitting, then on quiet firing, as if this were some new response to a dysfunctional working environment going through a difficult time.  I need to catch myself on these things – and move away from my Gen X “get off my lawn this has been around forever watch Office Space” initial response (which is accurate) to a “this can be solved if we fully understood what we are talking about” more appropriate response. I explore both on the podcast. As with most buzzwords, much of the commentary is driven by people who don't understand it – either they have drunk too much of the corporate Kool Aid, are too elevated to understand the working person, or never worked in an office.  But as a person who surely quiet quit in the late 90s and early 00s, I can tell you it's real, it happens, and it's also OK.  We need to take an elevated look at what we want from our workers, and how to communicate those expectations. Yes, the individual has a responsibility to execute on what we pay them for. That said, the organization has an obligation to communicate expectations of those employees in an effective way, and treat them with the respect that would encourage them to accomplish it. Much more detail on the podcast, and I'll put the transcript below so you can read it – but we need to think beyond just doing tasks – it's an elevated, philosophical view of what drives our workers, where they came from, and what gets them to the finish line. None of it is “wrong,” it just “is.”  I hope you enjoy – lots more to be said – and I'll chat with you soon! Your Title Goes Here Your content goes here. Edit or remove this text inline or in the module Content settings. You can also style every aspect of this content in the module Design settings and even apply custom CSS to this text in the module Advanced settings. Click Here for an Unedited Transcript of the Podcast Welcome to bellwether I'm back after a nice short break over the summer episode, 107, we're gonna cover quiet, quitting, the nice little buzz that's going around on quiet, quitting, but then also, you know, there's another aspect called quiet firing, which kind of is like the tail end of this little comment that, that flew across us in this lovely summer of 2022. I'm gonna give you my thoughts because everyone's got an opinion on it. 0:28 Everyone's an expert on it, just like every other buzzword. And when you don't have context and you could tell how many people really either have drunk too much of the corporate Kool-Aid or have never worked in an office. giving lots of advice on quiet, quitting, and quiet firing. Um, number one, I, I wanna start with quiet quitting, uh, because it's not new and everyone's talking about gen Z doing quiet, quitting, and it's whole new thing. 0:53 And, um, it's not new. It's been around forever. I was doing it back when I was in corporate. Plenty of other people did it when they were in corporate. There's a whole movie on it from like 30 years ago called office space. If you haven't seen it, watch it. It's fantastic. Um, I forget the guy's name, but it's Jennifer Aniston. Everyone knows that, uh, everyone knows her. Um, and it's a lot of, you know, the, the famous line outside of, you know, giving back my stapler and I'll burn the place down was, uh, the guy basically looks at the consultants and says, look, I could push out 10 more TPS reports company makes a little more profit, but I don't see another dime. 1:31 Where's my motivation. And it's true. It's the big kind of elephant in the room of, you know, the, the line that comes from corporate that people are hip to is we're family. And let's do it for the company and we're good together and let's do more and we're gonna go above and beyond. And we like it, but nobody really gets rewarded for it. It's this kind of language that comes out this speech that comes out to people to say, we're going to do this. 1:58 And then when they say, well, can I get a bonus? We're like, ah, well, sorry down economy. And sorry, we're laying off 30% of the workforce and sorry, we're not doing this and sorry, you're not getting a promotion and sorry. And so people are just, you know, they're kind of fed up with it. And, um, and that's just kind of why people just say, screw it. You know, you're paying me to do a job, I'll do the job, but don't yell at me to, to do more than, than what's expected. 2:24 And it's an interesting, it's an interesting argument. And I think it's a fair argument. Um, I remember applying for a job at a big bank. I got the job, uh, and then they switched the job on me, but whatever. Uh, and I met someone who was gonna be reporting to me and she said, look, my only question for you is this. I don't want a promotion. I don't want to do anymore. 2:49 I'm happy where I am. I wanna spend time with my kids. I've got all. And this was, maybe this was 10 years ago, at least 10 years ago, maybe 15. I'm happy. I don't wanna go above and beyond. I don't wanna work here till eight o'clock at night. I want, I'm happy. I'm gonna do a good job in my role. Are you okay with that? And I said, absolutely, that's perfect. You know, we'll constantly talk about, you know, whatever it is that you want. 3:08 And if you want, if that changes, we'll talk about it. We wanna make sure that we're getting whatever you need. And I didn't just say that cause I was interviewing, um, and it was relieving to her, right? Because we constantly say, well, what are you doing? What are your goals this year? How are you going to improve? And we're force feeding this stuff down. People's throat, you have to evolve and you have to get promotions. 3:24 But look, when you go up a promotion thing, it's a pyramid. There's only so many roles and a lot of people aren't going to get it. And so why would they go above and beyond? They're being told what to do. They're doing work. They don't want to do. And you expect them to spend extra hours at work, to do stuff, just to kind of move the needle along. Doesn't really add up. 3:43 Um, it may not be a popular thing to say, but it's reality. And let's just cut the BS it's reality. And, and you know, oh, who's the shark. There's one of the guys from the shark tank, the bald guy, um, he calls himself Mr. Lovely or happy or whatever it is. Um, he, he had some video where it was like a diatribe about how quiet quitters, they're bad for culture and you're bad for the business and everything else. 4:08 And, um, I, you think they care, right? I mean, telling quiet quitters that they're bad for corporate culture is like telling heckler it's bad for people trying to pay attention during a comedy show. Like they don't care. Uh, and you're yelling at the wrong people. And rather than yelling at people who are quiet, quitting, which by the way, isn't a bad thing. It's just a stupid conversation, right? What is quiet, quitting, they're doing what you pay them to do. 4:35 And then stopping. That's not a bad thing, right? It's why do we expect people to do more than, than what's expected for us, right. That's bonus, that's extra. Um, and, and the reality is nobody likes to be told what to do. That's why I left corporate. Right. I did one of those little personality assessments, um, is when you become a coach and you're, you've got, you need to have assessments in your arsenal. 5:03 So you gotta do what they, what you're making other people do. I gotta pull myself through it and the guy's reviewing it. And he says, wow, you're pretty hostile to authority. And I said, oh, okay. That's good to know. Right. I wish I knew that at the beginning of corporate , but people don't, nobody wants to be told what to do. Nobody wants to be given a project and say, you do this. 5:22 Um, just nobody likes it. And I think there's, there's, there's philosophical phases of workers. Okay. Because when, when I say you've got an employee, you've got a worker, you have something, you have an image in your mind of who that is and what you expect of them. And we never talk about what expectations are. I'm gonna talk about that in a minute. How do you communicate expectations? But philosophically, I feel like there are different, there are different phases of workers. 5:52 There's this old mentality. And it still trickles through right. Pick yourself up by the bootstraps and work hard. And if you do hard, good honest work, you'll get your raises and you'll get rewarded. Yada, yada, yada, yada, yada. And guess what? That's a load of bullshit. We know that's bunk. We right. We know that we know that trickle down, economics doesn't work. We know all of that stuff. Um, they get extra profit and if it comes into my business, you know, I may hire people, but if I don't need to hire more people, I'm not gonna like, just give it out to people. 6:22 That's my money. Right. We made profit that's companies exist to create profit that's okay. Um, but we know that, and everybody knows now, you know, doing hard work does not guarantee you anything. And people are realizing they have to take more control over that. And that that's the, the quiet, quitting aspect is, you know what, I'm gonna do my limited time here, but I'm gonna do something else on my own so I can make my ends meet and I'm gonna do what's best for me. 6:50 And that's okay. Right. This whole fascinating, I, someone told me the other day, I'm trying to pay someone 20 bucks an hour and I can't find a single person to do it. And what I wanted to say to them, I should have, would you do it for 20 bucks an hour? And of course the answer's gonna be no, right? So you can't pay someone, you know, anyway, whatever that's going into a, a different thing. 7:12 But so look, you can work hard. Um, and you could be a hard worker. That's great. But if you're sitting there building, uh, uh, or digging a tunnel, right? Cause working hard is different philosophically, right? There's, there's different definitions of working hard. You can work lots of hours. You can do a very physical, hard physical work. The world has changed on what hard work really means. And you could work really hard digging a tunnel. 7:42 But if the expectations are, we need a bridge, then the fact that you worked really hard is fairly irrelevant because it's not what people need. And so you could work hard, but you're kind of shit outta luck. And so that's this, this philosophical idea of hard work and everything that's out the window. It's not really relevant right now. And, and if you believe that either at the top of the chain, looking to hire people, doesn't work that way. 8:09 Okay. And people realize you have to change the way you're talking to your employees. If you're looking for it and you're stuck in this, I'm working hard. Guess what? Your promotion's not really coming. Maybe in a government job where they give promotions to people who have been there for 30 years, but you know what, that's why it's such a bureaucratic mess, right? A bureaucratic mess. That's not gonna get anything done because those people are just putting in time and it's not really evolving. 8:29 Um, but then there's a second phase. There's another kind of group of people that would sit there. So I would say that's the idea of old idea of people working hard. Then there's another kind of group which I'm gonna call the group that needs a job. Right? And we're talking about this in the context of quiet, quitting, those people who need a job, because I'm gonna go broke. If I don't have it, or I don't want to go back to whatever I came from. 8:53 Um, it's, it's very much an immigration mindset. And I think of, you know, the old Irish coming over, leaving poverty in the, the 18 hundreds and, and the disaster that Britain had had thrown on them and the, the famine and all of that stuff. We're leaving political turmoil. We see that with a lot of migrants now where the poverty that's in central America, we see those people coming up. Now, those people, I speak to people in HR, they say, I will hire those people 12 days out the week, cuz they will put in the extra time, cuz they're setting up the next generation. 9:21 They don't want to go back to what they had experienced. Right. There is a fear and a need driving that now to be fair, some of 'em get taken advantage of a lot of 'em get taken advantage of, but there is something ingrained in them based on their experience that there is no quiet quitting. They will do everything to make sure that they drive this home. And that's fantastic. Right? It's great. 9:39 Not great what they came from and everything else, but it's true. And so they've experienced pain. They don't wanna go back to that. Then you've got another group of people which are a few generations after and that's where most of America is a few generations after. And I hear a lot of people telling me, well, my ancestors worked really hard to get, um, our family set up today and that's great, but what are you doing today to work hard? 10:02 And this goes back to the working hard thing. Um, we think we work hard in many ways and in a lot of ways, we don't in a lot of ways and this is just real talk. We have this inflated sense of, of what we can do, um, as individuals and, and, and what we're entitled to and, and everything else. And the people screaming about entitlement are just as entitled as everybody else. 10:24 Um, this is not a, a, a right side left side or anything. Entitlement just kind of goes political, which I don't like to do. But, um, the world has changed most of the us. Um, the ancestors did the hard work for us and we are reaping the benefits. And if you are working with these people, which is the majority of you, uh, you have to think about a different way to get them engaged at work. 10:50 There's nothing wrong with it. Look, we're lucky to have ancestors who did it and we're sitting here and we're, we've got the benefits of it and it is what it is. And we were born into it. And there's nothing, it's not a problem, right? It's not our fault. Um, but the majority of people who grew up in a successful America need a different way to be engaged. And question is how do you get them to care? 11:18 How do you get them to want to do this type of work? And, and, and this isn't new, it's not a gen Z challenge, right? This is, you know, partly gen X challenge, a definitely a millennial challenge, partly you know, everything from, you know, we had major growth in the fifties and it's been phenomenal. And after world war II, this country's been the greatest place on the planet. And life has been relatively easy. 11:38 We've had our problems, of course, um, different groups and everything else, of course. But as a general, matter of fact, I don't think I'd want to be anywhere besides the us over the last 50 years. And that's, you know, it's the way it is. So how do you get these people to be engaged and interested in, in creating something and, and the word there is create, okay, people who have grown up where they, they're not forced to do certain types of work, need to, co-create a solution for your organization. 12:12 They need to have ownership of an idea or a project, not just be given a project and say you own it. They need to come up with the idea. And that's what gets people engaged and interested in doing work. When we think about entrepreneurs, what entrepreneurs really love outside of not having a boss because we're hostile to authority. , um, what entrepreneurs really love is their ability to create and create an idea and see it come to fruition. 12:39 And, and, um, when we see entrepreneurs who hire staff, who get to that point, oftentimes that philosophy doesn't make it to staff. And I work with a lot of small business owners, uh, who are frustrated with what their staff does. They're frustrated with the quiet quitting. They're frustrated that the staff doesn't go above and beyond. They're frustrated with a lot of different things. And they're frustrated with not coming up with new ideas and doing all these other things that, that, um, the entrepreneur just naturally does. 13:06 And the, the, the example I like to give them is the company failed tomorrow. What would you do? And the entrepreneur and the owner is generally like, I'd go starting a business, no question, no worry, right? Like whatever. I would just do it again. If you ask that same question to staff, their first answer or their, their, their worry would be, well, I'd have to find a job. I don't know where I'd look, I'd have to go, you know, do all of these types of things. 13:38 So one, the entrepreneur makes the rules for themselves and will create something for themselves. Staff needs to find someone who can help them create, you know, whatever, or give them something to do. Both are okay. Not everyone could be just be like this big, you know, entrepreneur creator. Um, but what we wanna do is how do we teach people within our organizations to almost be entrepreneurs and residents. And that is a very difficult, you know, you could be an entrepreneur within the confines of an organization. 14:06 And I talked about this a few, um, episodes back on, if I would go back to corporate and I could, I could go back to corporate. Now that I know all that I've done, starting a business, launching a business, doing all of this, how do I almost become an entrepreneur within the confines of an organization? And that is your answer. If you're looking for one to quiet, quitting is how do we get people to almost become learned to become an entrepreneur in residents, right? 14:33 You're giving up your time for something for entrepreneurs. It might make sense to give up your time a little bit and some of your freedom so that you get the flexibility of an office. And you, you get all of these things that you had to pay for before the equipment and the printing and the people and the staff and all that other stuff, you can accomplish more with other people. So it's not, it's almost like you are creating your world. 14:54 You can do it within the confines of an organization, or you can do it outside and create your own business. Once people are creating something, once they have ownership of it, that's gonna be a very different conversation in terms of how am I being successful and you know, whether or not you're being successful. And that's, that's kind of an answer to, to quiet quitting is how are we communicating these expectations to our people? 15:18 But one more thing on this, because I also want to talk about quiet firing, which is the organization that basically goes silent on an individual we've given up on you. We're just gonna make this place miserable until you go away. And that's a real thing as well. Nobody's talking about that as much. We love to talk about the worker and we'd love to complain about the worker. Um, but look, I used to be a worker and I hated it sucked. 15:43 Let's be honest. Right? And, and, um, it's such an arrogant thing. I'm giving you money. You do what I tell you to do. And that's, , that's not how it works. The, we have an obligation running an organization as well, um, to not do this quiet firing nonsense. Um, cause I would never tell someone not to quiet, quit, right? My philosophy, I quiet, quit. I did it and I do it again. 16:07 Um, but when we talk about quiet, quitting, philosophically, let's just talk about in theory, you're getting paid to do a job. I don't care how many, and this is how I think about work. I don't care how many hours it takes. If I'm paying you too much to get this one task done. That's my problem. It's my job to give you the right amount of task for the amount of money I'm given. 16:25 I don't care when you do it, right? And this is, you know, I'm nimble, I'm small and whatever. It's a little more difficult and a scaled bureaucratic organization. I get that, but we need to rethink the way we're thinking about employees. And that's kind of the big kind of quiet, quitting thing when they're not meaning expectations. And we just want them to go away. Organizations do something called quiet firing, where they just make the place miserable until they actually go away. 16:51 Um, this is where Mr. Happy, wonderful pants, whatever from shark tank, this is where it's very damaging to culture. And it's more on the organization than on the quiet quitter individual. Um, so I'll flip that on its head. It's up to the company here, um, because it goes both ways. This is where an organization. And, you know, I would say an organization's terribly, it becomes a virus in the office because what people see is not a miserable employee. 17:21 They see what behavior's being tolerated and the way that a person's being disrespected. And that becomes massively unproductive and becomes a virus in the organization. People see way more than we give them credit for. And when we see certain behaviors tolerated, why would I go above and beyond? Why would I go do more? Of course I'm gonna quiet, quit. Cause I see what other people are doing. And, and other people aren't being rewarded and everything else. 17:47 Um, there was a study a long time ago. I gotta find it. I keep talking about it. I will find it, um, where they surveyed people who were fired from an organization and surveyed people who weren't fired. The people who were fired, were treated with the utmost respect, upfront communication handheld through the entire thing. Um, did what they could to get them new jobs, treated them as human beings and everything else. 18:15 Those people who were fired, gave extremely high marks on their respect for the company and what they thought about the company and what they ever go back and what they do more for that company. The people who stayed and saw those people who got fired and were not treated with respect, gave like negative scores. I don't respect the organization and those people are still working there. And that's the problem is how are we treating our people with respect? 18:38 And this is a difficult challenge for organizations, especially as you get larger, because there are a lot of break points, a lot of ropes that can break, uh, a lot of chains that can break in terms of are we respecting our people? And it does have to go both ways. You can't tell employees to treat your organization like a family, but then not treat them like a family member right back. And there is this theory. 19:01 We have theory versus reality. And I talk a lot about this when I'm on my little speaking circuits, um, there is a theory of what we expect and what we want. And there's the reality of having the conversation. And one of the big skill sets we need right now is how to have difficult expectation conversations. One at the forefront. This is what I expect from you. Do you understand and spit back what my expectations of you are going to be and how you're gonna execute. 19:30 It's a dialogue when someone's not meeting your expectations. How do we articulate those details? And how do we do that? If a person has to tell you, you know, when we're clear on our intentions, when we're clear on, you know, what we want people to do, people will know when they're hitting it. And people will very much know when they're not. And if there is any ambiguity in the conversation between someone's meaning our expectations are not, um, that's on you as the person in, in a position of authority and management, nothing is worse than telling someone when you didn't hit their expectations. 20:08 But if someone doesn't know that they're not hitting your expectations, that's on you. We can't blame them for innocent ignorance. And when you have that conversation of you're not meeting my expectations, that person's gonna know if you set it up properly, I know this is what I was supposed to do. It's just much easier to rip the bandaid. Okay? There's no big surprise. There's no difficult conversation. There's no big blow up. 20:30 And it shows everyone else that you mean business and a really productive and, and effective way. And this is what I expected from you. You didn't hit it, you get it. I get it. Maybe we just go our separate ways. That's, it's a logical kind of it happens. Right? And it's very important going forward. As you talk about your people. And as you talk about your planning and your annual planning and everything else, how do you communicate your expectations of other people? 20:54 And this is beyond just the workplace. This is at home. This is your community and everything else. And so quiet, quitting, quiet, firing, not new, but I would say the onus is on the organization to kind of fix it. We can't blame a person for being lazy, cuz that's not what they're actually doing. They're just doing what you paid them to do. And if you are not setting your expectations well enough, sorry man, it's on you. 21:20 Um, which kind of sucks. Right? And you could go looking for another one. It's gonna go above and beyond. And that's why we get this cycle of you go in and you're raging to do good work and you get about two quarters in and you're doing great. And then all of a sudden you burn out and you say, this kind of sucks. This is just like the last place. And after a year, year and a half, you're gonna start looking around and saying, what else do I do? 21:40 Um, we haven't set these people up for success and that's what we have to do from an organizational perspective. So good luck with it. Um, a little theory, little reality, but I hope this was helpful as you think about your quiet quitting situations and your quiet firing and the way that we're treating about people. It's about respect. It's about expectations and that's just my opinion. I hope you like it. Have a wonderful week. 22:02 I'll talk to you next week. Next week, we're talking about politics of the C-suite. It's gonna be interesting. Should CEOs get political? Oh, it's I've got opinions. It's gonna be good. I'll see you next week. Thank you everyone. Talk to you soon.

We LOVE to hate on other generations. But the hate needs to be tempered - there's lots of learning to be had.