Podcast appearances and mentions of mike diva

Send us a textOn this episode of Creator Economy Live, we're joined by the one and only Mike Diva—the creative powerhouse directing some of Saturday Night Live's most unforgettable digital shorts. From viral YouTube hits to high-gloss SNL sketches, Mike has built a career on chaotic brilliance, razor-sharp satire, and mind-blowing VFX.Hosts Brendan Gahan and Keith Bendes chat with Mike about breaking into the industry, maintaining his distinct visual voice in mainstream media, how the SNL gig came to be, and what creators and brands alike can learn from sketch comedy's golden formula.Plus: AI in the creator world, YouTube vs. TV, and why Chili's deserves your respect.

This week on the program, Thomas, Matt, and jD welcome back Darin Patterson to the show. You can find his work at SNL Nerds where ever you get your podcasts.Transcript:Track 4:[0:42] Thank you so much, Doug DeNance. It is a thrill to be back here with you on the SNL Hall of Fame podcast. Before you come inside, if you would do me a favor, please wipe your feet. The SNL Hall of Fame podcast is a weekly affair where each episode we take a deep dive into the career of a former cast member, host, musical guest, or writer, and add them to the ballot for your consideration. Consideration once the nominees have been announced we turn to you the listener to vote for the most deserving and help determine who will be enshrined for perpetuity inside the hall and that is how we play the game it's just that simple a little 411 for you we have a new email address it is the snl hall of fame at gmail.com that's the snl hall of fame at gmail.com shoot Shoot us an email if you have any questions about the show or would like to guest on this show or the SNL Hall of Fame Water Cooler with Joe and Shari.Track 4:[1:43] So there's that. This week we are joined by our friend Darren Patterson of the SNL Nerds podcast. You can check that out wherever you find your quality podcasts. Podcasts and uh darren has quite the track record of uh nominating people in episodes he joined us for the first time on season two where he nominated tom hanks who got in then in season three he kicked off the season by nominating dana carvey who also got in that year uh he took the year off in season four and didn't visit us in season five either but this year he's back and uh i'm excited about this episode so there's that.Track 5:[2:32] Here we go with an original not ready for prime time player it is the often overlooked garrett morris matt what do you have to say about garrett morris wow uh garrett uh he five foot eight born february 1st 1937 in new orleans uh he is uh an incredible talent he studied drama at the hb studio and attended juilliard he's a triple threat raised by a baptist minister grandfather he got his first taste of performance in the church choir uh with 116 acting credits six soundtrack credits and one writer credit it, he worked as a soloist and arranger for Harry Belafonte.Track 5:[3:22] Yeah, so he was part of Belafonte's band. During his time as a singer for Harry Belafonte, he was performing in Los Angeles and decided to go for a walk. Police cuffed him and dragged them to jail when he tried to show his hotel keys to prove where he's staying. After a background check, it came back clean. And then they checked the itinerary in his pocket and saw that he was part of Harry Belafonte's band. And all of a sudden they were like oh i'm sorry i'm sorry mr garrett morris i mr morris like we're so he's he that kind of uh changed his life um he became very active uh he joined the black arts repertory theater and school a cornerstone of the black arts movement um um, in New York and ended up being surveilled by the FBI during that time. Yeah.Track 5:[4:23] So he has a file. Um, but you know, he's also done things like he released an album called South African Freedom Songs with Pete Seeger and Guy Carowan. Uh, he appeared in broadway in hallelujah baby and ain't supposed to die a natural death and uh he.Track 5:[4:44] Wrote a play called the secret place daddy piku and stagger lee uh which he penned for the brooklyn uh school kids as part of a new york program uh to write a play for school kids in their in your home borough and on top of all of that he released a comedy album called saturday night sweet um which has some pure disco tracks on there it is it is incredible um he survived a brush with death having been shot in the chest and arm while being mugged uh and got to be kidding me yeah like he's that was.Track 5:[5:28] In 1994 so not even that long ago did not go well for the shooter because there were some garrett morris fans in prison and let's just say he didn't leave the prison uh so yeah that got that you don't mess with a good with great comedians you know people don't like that so yeah so garrett morris garrett morris in a in a wrapped in a bow by our friend matt ardell and now we're going to check in with our other friend Thomas Senna as he digs in on Garrett Morris.Track 2:[6:31] Jamie and Matt, thank you so much. Welcome to another episode of the SNL Hall of Fame. Today we have a Heritage nominee from Season 1, an original Not Ready for Primetime player. So I'm really excited to talk about Mr. Garrett Morris.Track 2:[6:52] And with me to talk about Garrett and his time at SNL is Darren Patterson from the SNL Nerds podcast. Somebody who I haven't had on in like two or three seasons. It was long overdue. I knew I needed to get Darren back for Season 6 of the SNL Hall of Fame. Darren, how's it going, man? It's going well, Thomas. It's going well. Yeah, it's been a minute. I haven't been around these parts in quite some time. I love what you've done with the place. yeah well thank you tied it up a little bit before before you stepped into the hall we make sure to dust and we make sure to everything is in its right place for special guests like yourself so from one snl podcaster to another i gotta make sure that my space is presentable for for you guys especially for other snl podcasters so it's wonderful to have you man i think you were on uh for a roundtable an end of season roundtable i think that's last time we checked in on you yeah yeah it was that was that was a lot of fun that was a that was a blast if i recall correctly yeah yeah no we had a blast talking uh talking about the different nominees from that season of the snl hall of fame uh i love chatting with fellow snl podcasters like we both were chatting beforehand that this is such a really neat community of snl podcasters like both buddies with john schneider from the saturday night network the guys gary and brad from the not Not Ready for Primetime podcast. Andrew Dick's doing his thing.Track 2:[8:19] So, yeah. So, it's just really fun to have a fellow SNL podcaster on. Why don't you tell us what's going on lately over at SNL Nerds? The listeners can go and listen to our 300th episode, which we just recorded. We hit the big 3-double-0. Wow. It's bonkers. Yeah, yeah.Track 2:[8:38] It's an episode we did with Mike Diva, SNL film unit director. The man who directed such hits as I'm Just Pete, the Pete Davidson pre-tape, the Waffle House pre-tape for the Jenna Ortega episode, Mario Kart in the Pedro Pascal episode, the Christmas Carol pre-tape on the Steve Martin, Martin Short episode. Yeah, this dude's done it all. So, guys, go check that out, our 300th episode. That's awesome. We got it. Yeah, yeah. It was a pretty big milestone for us. We were like, oh wow, we've been... We've been really doing this for a while. You know, most podcasters don't even get to five episodes. Really? Yeah, I think I read that somewhere. I think five episodes is like the average, if that. So people start a podcast, they bail after like one or two episodes. So 300 is amazing, man. Yeah, that makes us 60 times better than the average podcast. And you could fill it with you and John Trumbull, your co-host. Yes, yes. Yes. Me and my coach, John Trumbull, we're two guys in New Jersey who are obsessed with SNL, so we during the summer since they've been off, we've just been kind of talking about SNL quote-unquote related movies. Just because we've done all the directly connected to SNL movies, so now we're just like, we just had an episode of Throw Mama from the Train and Billy Crystal's in it. I think that's SNL adjacent. I don't know.Track 2:[10:07] As long as the cast member's on, I think that definitely qualifies. Yeah like as long as we can find one cast member in the cast or for something more produced we kind of shrug and be like all right that works like our next episode we're gonna do a league of their own one of my favorites john lovitz is in that so i was like all right that counts yeah that's one of my favorite things about your podcast is is you you've carved out your own niche in that like you're exploring like snl related movies which which i love so so 300 hundred congratulations darren congratulations john huge milestone go check out uh snl nerds follow them on social media and listen to their pod it's an awesome one so today we are chatting about mr garrett morris so uh garrett had a somewhat different path to snl compared to the rest of the cast he wasn't a groundling didn't come from second city uh garrett was a dramatic actor singer playwright so Lauren was looking for a playwright landed on Garrett who then obviously became a cast member of course part of the original cast so Darren like as an SNL nerd what does Garrett overall kind of mean to you, Oh, God, what does it mean to me? I mean, of course, right off the top, he was the first African-American cast member in SNL. I mean, that's a huge thing right there.Track 2:[11:30] I mean, and also when I think of Gary, I kind of also think of almost like what could have been a little bit just because it's like you said, like Gary really didn't come up with the rest of the cast members through the improv channels. Channels he just kind of he was like a theater kid basically he worked in the theater and playwrights and whatnot so he was he was i i always felt like he that's one of the things that's kind of separated him from the rest uh well i mean i think there was like a few things actually the fact that he well first you know african-american uh the rest of the other cast was uh white uh all the writers were white sometimes i think he was might be the only black guy in like the building yeah Yeah, yeah, seems like, right? It's very possible. Yeah, and so there's that. The fact that he doesn't come through the improv channels, that always kind of separated him. And the fact that he was, like, so much older than the rest of the cast, too, which is something I think a lot of people don't even realize, is because the other cast members, they were all in their 20s when they got to show, like, mid-20s, early 20s, something like that. Garrett was 38 when he got it. Right. It's like, aside from him and George Cove, like those are the old dudes so part of me does think oh maybe those three things kind of are what separated him from the rest of the crew and maybe writers and the cast members maybe didn't know exactly how to.Track 2:[12:55] Fit him into what they were doing so it always seemed like he was kind of doing his own thing the more I think about it I don't know if anybody actually.Track 2:[13:06] Wanted to write a sketch for Garrett it seemed seem more like the writers were like i have this idea for a sketch and if gary can fit in it okay right you know like it was even more something like because a lot of them came from second city i know lorraine was a grambling um but a lot of them have even had even had sketches that they performed together before snl so so that so there was just like an uphill climb uh for gary he had been in like uh uh i think he was in a band um with harry bell like not with harry belafonte But it was a band of like Harry Belafonte kind of like nurtured and like mentored a little bit So Garrett was like in that band. He was singing acting like I mentioned playwrights So that yeah, he was just he wasn't part of like that sketching improv inner circle Yeah, which probably? Was a disadvantage to him and you uh you alluded to it But I mean one thing of course that we can argue is that.Track 2:[14:07] Him being sidelined as a black man. And we saw for a long time afterward that SNL did have a problem with representation, Darren. Yeah, yeah, it really did. I mean, I don't know if maybe they just weren't quite looking for that or they were just kind of maybe more focused on just getting on the kind of humor that maybe they could only conceptualize or conceive as being radical without thinking about maybe how it may appear to other people. Like, you know, they've always had, SNL's always had issues with that. They're doing better, you know, the fact that we have, like now, like we had Bunky, but like people like Bowen or Devin and Ego and like all these other different perspectives, kind of Marcelo now, like all these other different perspectives coming up with ideas that, you know, like ideas that wouldn't have come to other, maybe certain types of writing but uh but you know like like sketches that maybe like ego has done like like things that kind of maybe include like a vernacular or have like a viewpoint from a certain community that you wouldn't have normally thought of like another i'm going off of the tangent here sorry like one sketch i thought of like was um uh the sarah lee sketch from the harry styles episode yes the one that had like cecily and bowen and then harry styles came in and he'd been posting all these odd things on Instagram.Track 2:[15:34] And the wordage they were using, I was like, oh, this is written by Bowen or something, because I don't see anybody else kind of... Unless you know about that community, then a lot of other people just wouldn't know about that. It seems like a lot of the writers who were around when Garrett was around didn't just quite know about his world, so they didn't maybe know how to write it. So that's why maybe they had a harder time trying to figure out what he could do.Track 2:[16:04] Yeah, and like the late 70s, I don't think it was as emphasized or writers and people behind the scenes didn't necessarily care about certain voices. And I think you can, like, if they thought that the audience wouldn't get certain points of view, you can still make those funny. You can kind of train the audience to understand certain things. You could put Garrett or somebody on Weekend Update and kind of – even if you have to kind of explain the backgrounds, explain the context for a few seconds. We've seen them. We saw them do that on Saturday Night Live all the time in the 70s. Even if you have to explain context, you can make it funny. So I don't – I think they just didn't care around that time. Yeah, I think – I mean I think that what you're saying is that that's something they finally caught around when Eddie Murphy kind of came on the scene. Scene and I mean I'm not sure exactly who was writing for him at the time he might have just been writing his own stuff or whatever but like I think when Eddie came in they're like oh this is.Track 2:[17:06] From a fresh new viewpoint that maybe we don't know about, but is worth exploring and investigating and making some sketches about. Yeah, I think there's a lot of credence to that, for sure. All that said, Garrett was such a great singer, such a great actor. I think he added a wonderful dimension to the show when it was on screen. Darren, I've always found this applies to hosts, especially in my opinion, but even cast members. I think some of the best people to do sketch comedy are good actors i think you need to have a sense of humor but you also need to know how to act that's something that they could have really tapped into with gary like talk about acting chops he's probably the best actor uh at that time maybe on the whole cast yeah no he that's true he could have done that i think what he might have done, which maybe kind of you know was was to his you know detriment was he tried to be maybe as funny as the rest of the cast members in some things or like he tried to meet them on their terms when he should have just kind of stuck with his strengths and like and you know that would have been his like maybe more better path forward where like he probably came up saying like well I'm a dramatic actor I know theater.Track 2:[18:25] But these guys are like comedic improv so let me try to be let me try to keep up with them try to play their game but like I feel like he should have kind of maybe played his own game and found his way.Track 2:[18:38] Through what the rest of the improv people were doing. It's almost like, I mean, I don't know if you saw what was it, Batman Forever? The one with Tommy Lee Jones and Jim Carey from back in the day, that Batman, where I'm really going off the edge today. No, it's not me.Track 2:[18:59] Jim Carey was the Riddler and he was like he just really played it to this nth degree and uh tommy lee jones was two-faced and he tried to match carrie's crazy and it just got too much crazy yeah whereas like if tommy lee jones maybe played it more straight and played it more kind of down here it would have had a better balance but like i remember that movie just being kind of really off kilter and not great because of that so i think maybe garrett could have done that like he could have been like maybe the more serious grounded uh person or or uh force in a sketch right and while everybody else was kind of acting a little bit crazier around him, Yeah, so he was trying to find his footing, so it's easy to understand why he would be like, well, it's a comedy show, and these guys have – I think I've even heard Garrett say this. He's looked at all of them and said, oh, they're like funny people. They're like trained funny people, so I kind of have to match that. But maybe looking back, you could say I was maybe the best actor of the bunch, so that's what I could have contributed. But you could see it. When I revisit old SNL, a lot of my takeaways from some sketches are like, man, Garrett acted his ass off, and it helped the scene.Track 2:[20:08] Like like big time i i think of like somebody who we're going to talk about this season adam driver to me he's one of the better hosts in snl history because he's like a great actor and a lot of those great dramatic actors do really well as hosts on snl so i just think that skill set really crosses over to sketch comedy yeah no for sure that definitely does like uh yeah i mean you have comedic actors that like try to be the funniest one in the sketch and that can't come across as maybe depending on the comedic actor it could be a little obnoxious but like dramatic actors always kind of know that less is more and like yeah you don't always have to be the big boisterous clown in the room you can just maybe play it down a little bit more and be a little bit more understated and you know find the rhythms and just add to the sketch and that's a better path well it might not be like like the flashiest role or you know like more than what everybody remembers, you still did your part to maybe flesh out the sketch a little bit more and get it to greater heights. Exactly. It services the sketch. Sketch comedy nerds like us will pinpoint that contribution and give credit where credit's due. So as far as Gary goes, I'm really excited. I want to dig into his work on SNL. So is there something that immediately kind of stands out to you that he did on the show?Track 2:[21:33] One of the biggest standouts immediately is the president of the New York School for the Hard of Hearing. It was a quick little thing he always did on a weekend update with Chevy where they have him in those little hard of hearing bubbles. And Chevy would say he's here for the hard of hearing. And Chevy would be like, our top story tonight. And then you just see Garrett cupping his hands over his mouth, screaming the exact same thing that Chevy's saying. Our top story tonight, President Ford is finally over that stubborn week-long cold.Track 2:[22:11] It was like one of those really simple, dumb gags that like we'll get a laugh i remember getting a laugh out of that the first time i saw when i was like a little kid where i was like it's it's simple it's kind of corny it's it's almost like a dad joke but damn it it makes me smile and it lives on too garrett he came back and was it snl 40 that he yes that he did that right i believe so it was one of the snl uh anniversary specials that that they brought garrett back to to do that on weekend update so So that one definitely lives on. I mean, the tone is like just yelling, but Garrett's not trying to like be a clown or be, you know, he's just sort of like doing what needs to be done. And it lives on almost 50 years later, Garrett doing that.Track 2:[22:59] Yeah, I'm sure everybody will remember that. Weekend Update, I kind of want to stick with too, since you started there on Weekend Update. A character he did 10 times, 9 of those on Weekend Update was Chico Escuela. Is sports correspondent which is what i i mean that when i think of garrett i think of like the a lot of the fun stuff he did as chico escuela darren yes yes me too i mean it was like um i mean yeah like you said it was like a character that just kind of popped up here and there a little bit uh it wasn't you know it wasn't it didn't get too overused there was no you know emily latela or anything like that but it was poor poor emily latela that's like the classic example but you're right I agree right she got so much air time it was like wow you really trying to make Emily Latela happen but I mean Chico escuela like he had again much like Garrett he kind of went at his own pace you know the baseball didn't very very good to me and whatnot it was like a very small that's small but very understated character very understated performance, memorable, to say the least, I'd say. Baseball been very, very good to me. This week, baseball been very, very good to Willie Mance. Say hey, Willie always keep his eye on the ball.Track 2:[24:25] In the Super Bowl, we have, how do you say, highlights. Roll, please. Please, Jackie A. Smith did not keep his eye on the ball. I think it is actually kind of a nuanced thing because I love the conceit of he doesn't know anything, especially the first one. The first time he came on as a sports correspondent, he doesn't know about any other sports. He's just trying to like push his way through like the nhl highlights and he doesn't really know much about basketball then when baseball he just kind of jumps right in and yeah just talks about it so i just think that's a very very funny conceit chico always seemed like a nice guy has that catchphrase man like like everybody who knows the show it seems like knows the baseball been very very good to me and yeah like yeah he another one that lives on yeah no it's not like one of the bigger catch, you know, it's not like it's no two wild and crazy guys, but I feel like it's another like.Track 2:[25:32] It's another thing where it's like, yeah, it's a catchphrase that may not be that big, but it is known. I don't know. The more I think about it, the more I think more serious SNL nerds like us would appreciate Garrett more. He's always just been kind of – again, he's not like the big flashy breakout star, but people like us, we see what you're doing there. Yeah, I know. If you really go back and watch the first five seasons, there's so many times where we're like, oh my gosh, Garrett. It like like and he i love the chico character too because like it had an arc like he had a really fun arc there's at one point where he uh was quitting weekend update because he went back to met spring training to try to make the team again because his his background was that he was an all-star for the new york meds so uh but then when he went to uh spring training uh it turns Turns out that some of the team was upset with him because he wrote a detailed account of Major League Baseball.Track 2:[26:32] And it was called Bad Stuff Bout the Mets that he wrote. So he had to endure himself. So there was like a whole narrative arc with Chico Escuela going to Mets spring training, then flaming out. So that's something that I kind of would love to see more of on SNL, especially with weekend update kind of characters. I want to see those narrative. But we like we got that with Seth and Stefan but Darren like I love that There's like some sort of narrative arc here. Yeah, I don't yeah I I mean I'd love to have like you said like something like narrative arcs in SNL and or even runners I think that they tried to do, Runners a little bit back in the day like they had that um, when Kim Kenna was on they still had that uh, was it I.Track 2:[27:18] Think she had like some little bit of runner through there. I, They can't even remember it. But I don't know. Part of me thinks because of this, I guess, TikTok world we're living in where, like, you know, the little sound bites and clips are a little bit more important just to get eyes and views. I don't know if there's a place for, like, a runner or... Marianne Conway, that's who. They had the Marianne Conway thing where Kate McKinnon was, like, on her knees. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, all right. All right, sorry. I just remembered.Track 2:[27:51] So, yeah. Yeah, so I don't know. I mean, I would love a runner. I would love arcs. But again, because we're in this world now where quick little five-minute video clips are kind of how we just ingest everything now. I just don't know if there's room for an arc or a runner or anything like that anymore. It's a bummer because they're really cool. No, I could see that. No, it was really cool with Chico. go that was a character too that i would hear people who watched uh snl live when in the late 70s always referenced they would always reference chico escuela and base baseball being very very good to me and all that so i think this kind of like almost lives on as far as like this might be like garrett's legacy at snl is this character because i really have heard a lot of older snl fans when i was a kid they would always reference this like i knew what this was before i even saw I saw it on screen. I knew what this was. Oh wow. Yeah, yeah, no, totally memorable, totally great. Yeah, it's fantastic. What else is there that may have popped out to you for Garrett? I mean, the one thing that comes to my mind is the, I forget the name of the sketch, but it's like that aristocrat's dinner that happens.Track 2:[29:08] And Garrett is a person who's, you know, what's it called? He has like a staff in his hand. He slammed it against the ground to introduce people to the party. Say, you know, Lord and Lady Gardner, Lord and Lady, blah, blah, blah. And then these two people come in and he says, Lord and Lady Douchebag. Douchebag and uh we get this whole sketch about you know this lord and this lord and lady in this fancy high society party and their names are douchebags to your point that sketch which i think honestly was the last sketch of the original era it happened in the very last episode buck henry hosted it in season five yes yes i think it may have been the last sketch of the original error or close to it maybe there was one more after that uh but but to your point garrett made that sketch because if you ask somebody they i think a lot of like casual sketch comedy fans will tell you oh yeah i've heard of like lord and lady douchebag um but they couldn't tell you the beats of the sketch no right they just recite garrett saying that line so that's to your point like garrett made the most out of he wasn't the star of the sketch i think it was buck henry and Harry Shearer, honestly. But Garrett May, he was the star of that sketch ultimately. Lord and lady, douchebag!Track 2:[30:33] Yeah, and I know Bill Murray was in that sketch, because at one point he goes, ah, douchebag! He does that. But yeah, I don't remember anything anyone else actually said in that sketch. The one thing you can you think about it or totally remember is Garrett saying Lord and Lady Douchebag. I mean, that's him taking, I guess what he knew was going to be like the big line that would get the big laugh.Track 2:[30:58] Once everybody in the audience kind of sees where the sketch is going that's going to be their big aha moment so like he probably looked at that and was new like oh i really need to really like enunciate and make a big deal out of this one phrase that like i just know is going to be the one that sticks in everybody's brain exactly he brought out his booming but he almost brought his singing voice yeah yeah he said that absolutely yeah that was a great example that's way back uh at the end of season five.Track 2:[31:28] Like the very last episode of the original era, Garrett still made his mark for sure. In season one, almost maybe a missed opportunity. They did this four times, but something that I always loved when I went back and rewatched a lot of the original seasons was he hosted a show called Black Perspective. Yes, yes. Yeah, so he did that in episode four was his first time. So they kind of gave Garrett his talk show. he played uh uh probably a different version of himself and he had on jane curtain playing a different version of herself but these black perspective they could have been a thing like again he did it four times but they were always like they had jokes about about just things that like like to your earlier point that there were jokes involving like black perspective that's the name of the show the black community but but these were ones darren that uh that i loved so he said He said he had Jane Curtin on the first time. Fran Tarkenton appeared on season two.Track 2:[32:29] So it was basically kind of Garrett and the show almost mocking like stereotypes. Yeah. It's just kind of poking fun of them. Like Fran Tarkenton was talking about how like. Black guys can't read defenses and that's why they aren't quarterbacks and he made fran made to was made to look like the in that sketch but that's kind of the theme of this yeah i remember those those are like really interesting i mean like of course tim meadows would kind of do something like that yeah you know well i've been called perspectives yeah yeah yeah outstanding.Track 2:[33:01] But uh but yeah like that's like another thing that like uh garrett had that didn't, I mean I don't want to say it didn't take off they were really cool and really interesting but yeah like I again like they're not you know you don't see them too often when you look at an SNL, retrospective like they'll show you you know Samurai Chef or something a lot but you won't really see that like I do remember there was like another one where Julian Bond yes when he hosted and there was this like who's this you know politician this black politician back in the day and like there was this one really interesting sketch that they got into where where, I mean, I kind of wish they went further with it, but, like, the conceit of it is, like, they talk about how, like, light-skinned blacks are smarter than dark-skinned blacks. I remember seeing that. I was like, wow, that's a bold... Yeah, that happened in, like, 1976 or 77. Yeah. That was, like, in season two. They've been saying that whites are smarter than blacks for hundreds of years, baby, right? And we've only had these IQ tests for, what, 20, 30 years. Now, how did the IQ of white intellectual superiority originate in the first place? Well, that's a very interesting point. My theory is that it's based on the fact that light-skinned blacks are smarter than dark-skinned blacks.Track 2:[34:25] Say what? Garrett just kind of waits a beat, just kind of stares at him in that Garrett way, those eyes. I thought that was pretty hilarious. I mean, really, really ballsy for its time. I was like, wow. I don't even know if I'd try that sketch today. Yeah, right, exactly. They only did those black perspective ones like four times. Cecily Tyson was on the last one. And that was Cecily telling Garrett that black women have gotten a raw deal because the black man is such a loser Garrett it was like so I was like say what and he had this reaction So it's like kind of tension that between he and Cecily Tyson, Because she just kind of said that so so yeah, so I would have loved to see like a.Track 2:[35:11] More of those and more like perspective uh in in garrett's voice and more black perspective honestly yeah like i remember i mean from what i've read like garrett was the thing where he was like really kind of trying to fight to get stuff like that on he was trying to kind of get you know like sketches that kind of seemed more from the black perspective but like he was kind of just hitting so many walls with that and so like the fact that he got the little that he did i I think it's a huge accomplishment, even though maybe people didn't quite get it at the time. I mean, I think the fact that he just he put it out there and I'd imagine like there must be some people, some black comics coming up that's seen that and was like inspired by that. Yeah, yeah, I think so. He he tells a funny story. I mean, he speaks highly of Al Franken overall.Track 2:[35:58] He said nice things about Al Franken, but he did say that Al Franken kind of pushed back on some of his ideas. Is and he said one time he he challenged al frank into a wrestling match and he said he said he thought he was going to get the worst of it probably because al was a wrestler and he's kind of a stocky build guy like al's kind of a bigger dude he was a bigger dude than what you might think it's like i i challenged him he's like i knew i was gonna probably get my ass kicked but i challenged al frank and so snlwf yeah yeah exactly so garrett did have to almost literally fight for screen time sometimes. I had no idea. Yeah, that makes sense. Al Franken, from what I know about him, especially in his younger days, he was a bit of a...Track 2:[36:45] He had a bit of a... Temper or he was just a little gave you a lot of pushback you know he's exactly he's the man that came up with limo for a lame-o i mean for a lame-o yeah he's the one that uh when everybody like the cast i think it was in the late 80s early 90s i think it was george harrison who was like.Track 2:[37:04] Playing piano and just putting basically putting on this like beatles show in the office for people and al's the one who came out of his office and said get back to work you guys got some writing sketches to do and yeah so i don't blame garrett sometimes for trying to fight him push back on that uh one other memorable moment you mentioned the so the julian bond one i think is very memorable chico escuela deaf and hard of hearing one the lord and lady douchebag so garrett has these like memorable things um one thing i also knew about when i was a kid uh was if you remember this was in season one as well when they had what they called like death row follies yes prison yes so yeah they're putting on a performance of gg at a prison and are auditioning inmates oh yeah so you remember this one yes i do yeah so where.Track 2:[37:59] Does it go from here if you can if you can remember the beats i believe if we're thinking about the same one this is the one where Garrett comes out as an inmate and he starts singing the song.Track 2:[38:49] That's the one and it comes out of nowhere too it's like because dan dan and chevy played inmates for the first two auditions and then garrett comes out he's saying that he was in solitary confinement and he was writing this thing and he goes to the piano and i think maybe by episode 11 the audience had heard garrett probably sing yes so they knew that he was like this maybe maybe Maybe like a really good singer. So you're expecting. And even sometimes I forget. Because I'm expecting Garrett to kind of sing this beautiful song. But no. It's his famous song. Yeah it's like this kind of jaunty upbeat song. I'm going to take all the shotgun and kill all the white guys. Yeah. Which even makes it funnier. And like you're just talking about. Once he does that. Whitey won't bother him. Yeah.Track 2:[39:40] Yeah exactly. He said he got that from a real thing. And it wasn't like, kill all the whiteys. I see it was much, you know, it was a very, very, very racist little performance that Garrett happened to see. So he kind of flipped the script on that. Yeah. So that's kind of where Garrett said he got it from. But such a memorable moment. I knew the words to that song before I even saw the context to it as well. And that's something that like lives on with Garrett yeah and again that's another way like or another instance of Garrett kind of taking over a sketch with his little screen time he has because I don't remember what happened before that sketch or after Garrett saying it like all the other parts of that sketch I don't quite remember but I definitely remember Garrett singing that song and talking about getting a shotgun but like I know there was some stuff before and after he performed but I don't.Track 2:[40:38] Call it but no garrett's part that was the star of the show the only reason why i remember the beats because i just kind of recently watched it okay but like but but other than that that's all you remember from the sketch because it's so like shocking and memorable and hilarious and uh i think gilda is part of the sketch and they tell all the and they warn her basically or they say oh you might want to like button your top button a little bit more because these these men haven't seen a woman in years or whatever and then of course they all take a shining um to put it nicely to gilda throughout to put it nicely yes that's the nice way of saying it yeah because yeah that i remember yeah that was wow yeah yeah uh there was one more that i kind of uh that i think really sticks out with some people and garrett says that he's pretty proud of this one i've heard him talk about it and it's called the white guilt relief fund oh yes yeah I'm Garrett Morris talking to all you white Americans about the way black people have been treated in America now I know a lot of you feel guilty and you should.Track 2:[41:43] My great-great grandmother was brought over here on the slave ship and was raped by her white master and my grandfather was lynched by a mob for not tipping his hat to a white lady now they're dead now there's nothing you can do to erase their suffering. However, if you would like to relieve your guilt, I am willing to accept money as a representative victim of 400 years of repression. Send your check or money order to White Guilt Relief Fund, care of Garrett Marsh, 870 West 127th Street, New York, New York. Good perspective. I like it. That's the stuff that I wanted more of. Yeah. That's actually a pretty smart concept. I don't know why they didn't do more things I don't know, it seems like maybe the writers just had their own ideas and then they just kind of were like, alright, we'll give Garrett this one thing and that'll make him happy and then we can do our thing, what we want to do. But I don't know, I feel like they left money on the table in a way. They could have explored Garrett's mind a little bit more and worked with him a little bit more and gotten all these other great sketches from perspectives no one else maybe was even thinking about looking at.Track 2:[42:55] Yeah, they really could have. Yeah. I mean, they were really funny. They were really short, too. Like, that White Guilt Relief Fund one wasn't that long. It's something that you could plug in. Like, that's kind of a replicable concept that you could plug in if you need a minute ten to fill, honestly. Like, that's something you could do. Yeah, that could be like a TikTok. That's like TikTok. Perfect TikTok. It really is. Yeah, that's like for the TikTok era. Garrett was ahead of his time. He was ahead of his time. Really, Garrett created TikTok, if you think about it. Yeah, I mean, that sounds, I haven't looked into that, but that sounds right. That sounds, that checks out. It checks out, story checks out. Thank you, Garrett.Track 2:[43:34] Is there anything else before we kind of, like, move on, post-SNL stuff for Garrett? I've always liked his, that one role he had as the best friend Cliff for the Fenstruck Brothers. Oh, yeah. Like, he didn't have too much to do there, but, like, you know, he kind of came in and came out. And he'd always acted like a good sort of straight man to help the these two dudes just try to get the foxy foxy lady single women's yes yes yes I remember click very well I don't know if I undersold it honestly but I think he's on the shortlist and he might be the greatest singer in SNL history.Track 2:[44:37] Anna gasteyer is amazing cecily recently chloe trost currently but is there a better singer as far as cast than garrett i mean all those singers you mentioned are great uh melissa vio senor for the little time she didn't get to sing she's great but uh i think the fact that garrett is like classically trained and he like sung you know mozart songs and don otavino songs The fact that he can sing operatic stuff, I think maybe puts him a notch above all those other singers you mentioned. Because they're all great and have beautiful voices, but when you hear...Track 2:[45:15] Garrett Morris has a voice of an angel. Yeah, for sure. He can sing Ave Maria type stuff, and that's pretty special. Yeah, 100%. I would put Garrett, number one, probably on a gas tire right after that. She's still doing Broadway stuff. She's an incredible singer. And then everybody else is kind of fighting after that, after Garrett and Anna. But that should be part of his legacy as well. The most talented singer in SNL history. Yeah, you can't dismiss his singing prowess. I think there's enough stuff out there that people know he can sing when he sang on the show. But I feel like it's something that doesn't get brought up as much as it should. It because i mean he's he my man's got pipes yeah definitely uh yeah so after snl he made one cameo since he left the show in 1980 with the original cast garrett's made one cameo not including snl 40 and all those it was in november of 2002 the pop quiz here and i actually i'll admit i didn't know this until a couple days ago do you know the context of this cameo that That happened in an episode in November of 2002?Track 2:[46:27] I don't think. I don't believe so. No. He appeared in an Astronaut Jones sketch. Oh. Out of nowhere. It was Brittany Murphy. And of course Astronaut Jones. The Tracy Morgan character. And it was. Yeah. Garrett was standing right by him. And I forgot who else. So there was a third guy. Okay. No. It was Nellie.Track 2:[46:50] Nellie. It was Nellie. I was not expecting to say that. Yeah this is 2002 uh so so is tracy as astronaut jones and then nelly and garrett and then britney murphy was the host so so garrett appeared in astronaut jones darren that is wild i totally forgot about that yeah 22 years almost 23 years after he left the show that was his only appearance.Track 2:[47:15] Yeah, that is wild. I kind of wish he'd made more appearances. Yeah. But, yeah. Yeah, me too. But hopefully we'll see him here on SNL 50. I assume so.Track 2:[47:27] He guest starred in a lot of sitcoms, different strokes, The Jeffersons, Hill Street Blues, Married with Children, all over the place. If you watch Martin like I did, main part of the cast of Martin, very beloved, The Jamie Foxx Show, Two Broke Girls. Roles so man like i don't know he's still around he appeared in ant-man in 2015 which was awesome they made up a reference to him playing ant-man on snl yes the first wasn't he the first uh person ever to play ant-man in like tv or film it's like live action so maybe he's he is the first yeah so i'm glad that that was like a little tip of the cap to garrett playing ant-man in that it was like a parade of of superheroes kind of sketch oh yes yes i remember that that was a good one yeah so So, like, awesome, Darren, like, when Garrett just pops up in something you're watching, right? Yeah. Gets you excited. Yeah, it does. It does. It's like, oh, yeah, he's still out here. He's still doing it. He's still, he always just seemed, like, kind of just, like, kind of very zen, almost. Like, he's just, like, a very laid-back dude, and he's just kind of happy where he's at. And, you know, he's just, he just has a really great kind of aura about him. I don't know. I never met the man, but, like, I feel like if I, if we ever did, I would just, it would just like i would feel at peace at one yeah myself like through him he's buddhist it really yeah so that tracks no garrett's buddhist yeah i just made all that shit up i had no idea.Track 2:[48:54] That's awesome you have a good feel for it because i think i think garrett would be pretty zen i think he's he has said that he's buddhist uh so so yeah that's a good good read of a person darren Wow, way to go me. I did get that vibe. I think Martin was the first thing that I had. I mean, I think I had seen some old SNL clips when he was on, but I think Martin was my first real exposure to Garrett. So I do remember that just him being like just the funny station manager, the casual. So that was actually my first exposure to Garrett was Martin. Yeah, I think for a lot of, you know, people that grew up in the 90s, it was that, too. And, like, I mean, I remember him from Martin, of course, and Jamie Foxx show later on in the 90s. But, like, I guess I was big enough. I was a big enough SNL nerd to be like, oh, wait, that's the guy who was on. That's Chico Escuela. That's the guy that was on that SNL show that I watched the reruns of on Comedy Central. That's the guy that was going to grab the shotgun. Remember him? Yeah, he was going to kill all of them. Yes.Track 2:[49:56] Um so lamorne morris will be playing garrett in the upcoming saturday night movie um like one of the things you do on your podcast is discussing snl related movies i'm sure you're excited about this one this could be like the holy grail of snl movies for you guys yeah no with we are super as soon as the trailer dropped we were we were both super pumped i think i watched that trailer at least five or six times yeah we're definitely like me and my buddy john trumbull we we i think we uh spent there was like one episode we put out recently we spent like at least 15 minutes just talking about that trailer uh but yeah i mean i love the way it looks i think it looks great i love the way there's this one scene in the trailer where, Lamorne Morris is kind of looking at Jim Henson while he's smoking a cigarette. And the stare that he gives Jim Henson, it looked a lot like a young Garrett Morris. For a minute, I was like, oh, that looks like Garrett.Track 2:[51:00] So I'm looking forward to that. And I just really like the look of it. I think everybody who's playing, whoever they're playing, kind of gets it. The guy that's playing young Lorne Michaels kind of has his speech patterns down and his little pout. But he doesn't do it to an extent where it's a goofy caricature. You know, he's just like, you know. He has the little pout going on and the voice down. The guy that plays Chevy kind of has Chevy's voice down.Track 2:[51:29] I'm really looking forward to this. I might... I mean, I'm not going to take the day off work or anything, but I think I'm going to definitely see this opening... Definitely opening weekend, maybe opening night. but like i yeah i am so pumped for this i want to see it opening night but my wife's gonna be out of town and i might have to wait for her to get back because she's really wants to see it too i don't know to see this is this is a moral quandary with the husband do i am i do i adhere to my snl passion as a podcast maybe i could justify it as like i'm a podcaster i gotta see it opening night honey and then we'll see it again maybe when you get back but i don't know this is a moral quandary for me darren yeah i know oh i've i've been in those shoes where it's like, she's not she's out of town but i really want to see this show uh just go and then i pretend to be surprised yeah no you don't want to do that.Track 2:[52:26] A marriage is built on honesty fair enough yeah you're damn right so uh either way uh i'll definitely be seeing it soon afterward lamorne morris seems like he has um garrett's kind of aura down a little bit there's this trailer where he kind of introduces it and it seems like he's really got a pretty good feel for garrett i love lamorne in a new girl um a lot of stuff he's other done he's done as well i liked him in the new season of unstable even though that season was I thought I liked Lamorne in the season. So I'm looking forward to seeing his portrayal of Garrett and just the movie overall. And I get skeptical with biopics, especially with SNL kind of things. But this does look really promising. It does. I mean, Lamorne Morris has always been really good. I really liked him in, I don't know if you saw the movie Game Night. I haven't. It's really funny. It's really good. I saw it on Hulu a while ago on a whim just because I heard a lot of friends say it's really funny. You should check it out and i checked it out and it's really it's like on the level of almost like bridesmaids or like the hangover or like all the big comedies that came out in the early it's but it's like smarter and it's really well shot and like game night fantastic movie but anyway uh saturday night we're talking about that movie yeah but yeah so we're yeah we're pumped for saturday night pumped for the garrett morris uh depiction by lamorne morris so now's the time Darren, we've reached the point in the show where you kind of make an appeal to people.Track 2:[53:54] So why don't you tell us, why should listeners, SNL fans, and folks at the SNL Water Cooler appreciate Garrett's place in SNL history? Because the fact, first of all, he's the first African-American cast member. Boom, right there. And secondly, yes, he may not be the most memorable one of the group, or the one that got the most spotlight or get the most accolades.Track 2:[54:23] You still remember him. Even though he didn't get that much screen time or much lines, you still remember Chico Escuela. You still remember the president of the New York School for the Hard of Hearing. Those things still reside in your brain for some reason. He's always somebody who's made quite a lot with not what little he's given. You still remember hearing him sing with that beautiful angelic voice of his. He stays in your memory. He's always been a solid cast member. And while it's a shame he never got his due, you still remember him. He still sticks around in your brain. And yeah, he might be the unsung hero, I'd say, of the original SNL cast.Track 4:[55:31] So there's that thank you so much darren patterson from the snl nerds podcast check that out if you're listening to this and you don't listen to the snl nerds podcast what are you thinking keep that's, you know, get your priorities straight.Track 4:[55:52] Add it to your playlist. Thanks, Darren. It's great to have you back. I'm real curious if you keep your streak up. Tom Hanks, Dana Carvey, that's a pretty good pedigree that you've established. And I am very curious to see whether or not your luck is with Garrett Morris. So there's that. that let's go to the garrett morris sketch that uh thomas is selected here and i want to tell you that it is uh the first chico escuela appearance on weekend update uh obviously we listened to thomas and darren and chico escuela was certainly a big part of of garrett morris's five-year tenure at SNL. This took place season four, episode eight. So that's his first appearance. Wow. So really he was only season four and season five that he was Chico Escuela. To me, it was something that was just, it was always there. I don't know. I guess because of the clip shows, I'm skewed. At any rate, let's go to that now.Track 3:[57:11] New York Mets, Chico Escuela. Welcome, Chico. Chico will be covering the sports team for Weekend Update. Thank you. Thank you very, very much. Baseball being very, very good to me. Thank you, Hayne. Pete Ross Baseball being very, very good to Pete Ross, $3.2 million for Pete Ross Charlie Hustle, you bet Daniel, very, very much, And football. I don't know football. In Dominican Republic, football is... How you say in, um... soccer. Your football... I don't know. And National Hockey League. In baseball baseball being very very good to me thank you very much thank.Track 4:[58:38] You thank you very much oh man that's freaking fantastic what a baseball been better better good to me is just uh like thomas said in the conversation, it's just one of those things I knew and I was born in 74 so I was one and a half when SNL began so clearly I don't remember that my first memories are season 9 really, maybe a little bit of season 8 but I didn't really get into things until season 10 so there's that, I don't know whether or not.Track 4:[59:20] Garrett Morse makes the hall. It's going to be interesting.Track 4:[59:25] Tune in this week to the SNL Hall of Fame water cooler to hear what Joe and Shari have to say. I joined them this week on the show. And it should be interesting to take note of their feelings and thoughts on this. Thanks for joining us this week.Track 4:[59:47] It's always a pleasure. on behalf of Thomas and Matt I want to thank Darren Patterson once again and do me one last favor, on your way out as you walk past the weekend update exhibit turn out the lights, because the SNL Hall of Fame is now closed.Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/snlhof/donationsAdvertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy

For the SNL Nerds’ 300th episode extravaganza, Darin and John interview SNL Film Unit Director Mike Diva! Find out all about his journey to the [...]

In this episode of Psycho-Cinematic, Vic is joined by director,  @mikediva  Mike discusses his directing career from making music videos to working at Saturday Night Live. Chapters 0:00 Intro 0:53 Mike's Doja Cat music video 2:12 Mike's filmmaking background 4:49 Working with Lonely Island 6:05 My reaction to Mike skipping college 7:02 The impact of Lonely Island 8:08 The challenge of making a music video for a video game 11:06 The wildest way to reach out 12:28 Cyberpunk D&D 12:55 How many SNL pre-taped directors are there? 14:29 SNL's crazy turnaround time 17:57 What happens if you don't meet an SNL deadline? 19:51 Mike's SNL schedule 22:17 Mike's aspirations to make a movie 23:18 Mike's crazy themed birthday parties 25:50 Mike's advice to aspiring directors Psycho-Cinemtaic Merch: https://www.bigvicmedia.com/store/short-sleeve-t-shirt Follow Mike on IG: https://www.instagram.com/mikediva/?hl=en Follow me on IG: https://www.instagram.com/bigvicmedia/ Follow me on TikTok: @bigvicmedia Listen to Psycho-Cinematic on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6jeNRygaQjsC8eCJBIr2Id

“The most important thing with doing anything in this industry is learning to treat everything as a learning opportunity, not getting bitter about it, and growing thick skin and not letting it get to you. ” - Mike Diva Today I interviewed Mike Diva (SNL) In this episode we speak about how: How he went from creating on YouTube to directing at SNL. Finding and keeping the funny in sketch comedy during the intensive production and post-production process Being a torchbearer for other creative weirdos Then Melania asks Mike to help her in her goals to live her best life … without her Trumps. To catch up with our guest: Instagram: @mikediva

This interview features Brendan Gahan, Partner and Chief Social Officer at Mekanism. We discuss working with OG YouTubers like Smosh back in 2005, founding Epic Signal and selling it to his former employer, hanging out in El Salvador's Bitcoin Beach, why it takes him 100 drafts to publish content, the future of the creator economy, and learning how to enjoy what you create.Subscribe to our newsletter. We explore the intersection of media, technology, and commerce: sign-up linkLearn more about our market research and executive advisory: RockWater websiteFollow The Come Up on Twitter: @TCUpodEmail us: tcupod@wearerockwater.com---EPISODE TRANSCRIPT: Chris Erwin:Hi, I'm Chris Erwin. Welcome to The Come Up. A podcast that interviews entrepreneurs and leaders. Brendan Gahan:I felt like my strengths could be better utilized going off on my own. It was really as simple as, well, I want to do this work the way that I know how to do it and the way I want to do it. And if that takes me going off on my own, then that's what I'm going to do. So I did. In hindsight, it sounds much smarter than it was. It was not smart from like an on paper standpoint, but I just felt like it was the right thing for me to do because I've been doing it longer than most people, I have relationships, I have a sense of what strategically works. I want to do it the way that I want to do it. Chris Erwin:This week's episode features Brendan Gahan, partner and chief social officer at Mekanism. So Brendan was born in Ventura, California, and grew up surfing many local breaks. But although his parents were educators, he entered college without a career focus. But just a few weeks away from graduation, a last minute call from his uncle sparked his entry to media and advertising, and he never looked back. His career started at a creative agency working on some of the first YouTube campaigns with hit creators like Anthony Padilla and Ian Hecox's Smosh. With a growing reputation as a social and digital expert, Brendan eventually started his own agency, Epic Signal, which he ended up selling to Mekanism. Chris Erwin:Today, Brendan is their chief social officer. On the side he also publishes a wide array of content, making it one of the industry's most well regarded thought leaders. Some highlights of our chat include what it was like to sell his company to his former employer, why he's hanging out in El Salvador's Bitcoin Beach, how it took him 100 videos to post his first TikTok, the future of the creator economy, and learning how to enjoy what you create. All right, let's get to it. Chris Erwin:Brendan, thanks for being on The Come Up Podcast. Brendan Gahan:Thanks for having me, pumped to be here. Chris Erwin:We were just having a little chat about, you got a surf in this morning, if that's right. Brendan Gahan:I did. I'm working in El Salvador this week in a little town called Zonte, people may have heard of it referred to as Bitcoin Beach. And there's a nice little right hand point here, so made sure to get out there. Chris Erwin:Are you regular foot or goofy foot? Brendan Gahan:I'm regular, yeah. Chris Erwin:Okay, so you like the right-handers. I'm goofy, I like to go left. Brendan Gahan:Yeah, right hand point in particular, it's like my favorite kind of wave. I grew up in Ventura. So grew up surfing C Street, at the point in Ventura. And then every once in a while I would make the trek up to Rincon and stuff. Chris Erwin:I'm curious, where exactly did you grow up? Were you in the LA County or were you up north? Brendan Gahan:No, I was in Ventura. So there's Ventura County, which encompasses quite a bit of Southern California, but I grew up in the city of Ventura, maybe three quarters of a mile away from the beach, it's like a 15-minute walk or so, and yeah, it was great. Chris Erwin:Great. And do you still have family that's in Ventura? Brendan Gahan:Parents are still there. I've got some aunts, uncles, cousins in the area. And then my younger sister lives, she's still in Ventura County, but about 30 minutes away from where we grew up. Chris Erwin:I often talk about Southern California real estate. And you look at one of the few pockets in SoCal that's near the beach that has been underdeveloped is definitely Ventura. I think that's true for the last 30 years. I think that's finally starting to change, particularly during COVID and remote work. Have you seen that there? Brendan Gahan:Oh my gosh, it's crazy. I was just there this past weekend. And there's all these developments going up, like apartment complexes and condos, and yeah, it's sort of interesting. When you look at Ventura on a map, there's sort of like this no man's land between LA and Santa Barbara. And for years, Ventura was just sort of like overlooked. It was like people would pass through Ventura to go to either Santa Barbara or LA, but then more and more Ojai started to become a place, and Ventura has become a bit of a destination and there's now some startups out there. Before the biggest company there was Patagonia. Ventura, growing up was sort of like this blue collar cowboy meets surfer vibe for the most part. And yeah, that's definitely evolving. Chris Erwin:I think cowboy meets surfer vibe sounds about as good as it can get, you know? Brendan Gahan:Yeah, yeah. Chris Erwin:I forget who, but when I was at Big Frame almost 10 years ago now, I remember there were some industry friends that had set up shop in Ventura and were commuting to LA, and it was only about like an hour, hour and 15 away, not that crazy if you timed it right. So curious, looking at you being at the nexus of digital media and advertising and all the things, were there any media influences when you were there, when you were younger? Did that come from your parents or anything like that? Or was your upbringing focused on completely different things? Brendan Gahan:Yeah, definitely not. LA seemed like the furthest thing in the world to me growing up. And it seemed like a city, it may as well have been New York in my mind. Even though it was only like an hour and a half, we would go to LA on a field trip every couple years, or maybe my parents would take us there and we'd visit a museum or something like that. But it was not like a destination that was really on my radar. And from a professional standpoint where my head was at, I sort of had the cliche jobs in mind, it was like, oh, okay, maybe I'll be a teacher or a lawyer. A lot of people I knew growing up, and a number of relatives were like firemen, so my mind was sort of gravitating towards, I thought I'd either be a doctor, a lawyer or a psychologist. So I didn't have much of like a media or a tech influence until later. Chris Erwin:What did your parents do? Brendan Gahan:They were both in education. So my mom was a teacher's assistant in resource classes. And then my dad initially was like a teacher and then became a principal at a number of the special education schools in Ventura County. And then when he retired, he was the director of special education in Ventura. So education ran deep in the family, I guess. Chris Erwin:Yes. No, clearly understood. But I think you mentioned that you had an uncle that was in the media space, right? Brendan Gahan:That's right. Yeah, yeah. So I had an uncle who worked in advertising and he was at Wieden+Kennedy like in the heyday when it was like Bonos, Air Jordan, all that, when it was as big as it could get, and they lived a ways away. But whenever I saw him, I would just like pepper him with a million questions because to me, somebody working in advertising, in particular on like Nike and in that era, it wasn't just ads. It was like shifting culture, like Spike Lee and all that stuff. So I thought it was the coolest thing in the world. And I'd always ask him a million questions about it. But in my mind I never thought that I would end up working in that space. It seemed like this extra terrestrial sort of thing. Brendan Gahan:But he was always really cool. And he was like a creative director doing a lot of the Air Jordan spots and that sort of thing. So he always had funny stories he would share. And I just thought it was the coolest thing. I remember being in like elementary school, he'd visit or we'd go visit him, and I'd just pepper him with questions. So it was always sort of like seated in the back of my mind, but at the same time it felt unattainable, but I was really fortunate. Brendan Gahan:I don't know if we want to skip ahead too much, but basically he ended up offering me my first internship, totally came out of the blue. I got a phone call one day, I was like two days away from graduating from college. And I was about to go home for summer and work, and yeah, just out of the blue, he's like, "Hey, I got this guy on my team," he had started his own agency at this point, he's like, "And we need some young kid who understands digital," because this is 2005. And so I came up there and I interviewed with this guy he wanted me to intern for- Chris Erwin:But you did not go to college for this, if I understand correctly, you went to, is it UC Santa Cruz and you were psychology and history? Brendan Gahan:Yep. Yep. Chris Erwin:And again, you thought with that you were going to follow in your parents' footsteps, become an educator, or become a lawyer. Brendan Gahan:Something like that, yeah, I thought I was zeroing in on like teacher, lawyer or psychologist. I wasn't really sure what I was going to do. And psychology I always thought was fascinating. So I studied that, and then I realized two, three years in, I was like, oh, I've taken a ton of history courses and if I just take a few more, I can get a double major in apparently history, because of all the writing and stuff if I remember correctly, it was like not a bad thing to have if you were looking to get into law school. So it just kind of like was a circuitous path to get where I ended up. Chris Erwin:It didn't feel like you were overly passionate about anything at that point. I think you were open minded and you had some, call it nuclear, familial inspirations or influences. But when you got this call from your uncle, you're like, hey, this has been the cool uncle that was part of these massive sociocultural movements, Michael Jordan and Nike, I totally hear you. So when you got that call, were you really pumped up or was it, oh no, this sounds like something interesting and there's some direction and let's just go see what happens. Brendan Gahan:I was really pumped. I was also really torn because I was going to go home and work as a teacher's assistant for the summer and do summer school, which I know my parents were sort of excited about on so many different levels, because I'd be home. They would see me. They loved the idea of me getting into education, at least I'm pretty sure that's what they were excited about. And so I was like very torn, but also super excited. Brendan Gahan:And I went out and drove up to San Francisco for the interview. And I still remember walking into the ad agency office for the first time just being like, holy shit, this is so fucking cool. This is an office, people work out of here. It was like this creative space. And I remember thinking, especially as a college kid, wow, there's like a beer fridge and your pool table, and all these things. And obviously I knew work was happening, but it seemed like a great environment to get work done. I don't think I ever overdid it on any of the fun things, but it was like this relief to sort of have that there, and it felt really exciting to me. Chris Erwin:So then you get the job and you move up north. Brendan Gahan:Yep. Chris Erwin:What were you focused on in the beginning there? And then, I think from our notes that you did some early work with Smosh, is that right? Brendan Gahan:Yeah, exactly. So I did an internship and then I eventually got hired, and I was technically like a junior account executive. This was 2005, 2006, 2007, I think, and it was in the early, early days of social media and I was the youngest guy in the office. So people would ask me random questions, like, "What's the deal with MySpace, what happens on that?" Or, like Facebook, nobody else could get on Facebook because you still had to have your college email address. So I sort of found myself being this resource, and at the same time me being flabbergasted by the way advertising was being done. Brendan Gahan:I remember the first time I found out how much a billboard cost, and looking at that and being like, this is almost more than, I mean, I can't remember the number right now, but I remember thinking, this is about as much I make in a full year with my salary and being like, I don't think anyone does anything because of the billboard, or certainly not like a normal billboard ad, and seeing this huge disconnect between what drove people to do things and what people were genuinely excited about and where dollars were being allocated. Brendan Gahan:So I think I slowly started just embracing that and being like, to me, it was common sense to a certain extent, like, look, I can go on YouTube and I can see how many people watch this video. Why aren't we doing this? This shows millions of people. Once again, like walking down the street, I don't know of anybody who does anything because of a billboard. And so that sort of evolved, and I started just pitching ideas proactively. And I remember I even tried to pitch clients and stuff, and stuff I in hindsight probably didn't have- Chris Erwin:Existing clients of the agency, or were you doing some new business development? Brendan Gahan:All of the above. I remember reading about it in the ad trades, like, oh, so and so company fired their agency and I'd be like, well, why don't they work with us? And literally come up with ideas and mail them things, and like try and get a response. And I don't know, just like this sort of, we're a creative industry, let's be really creative. Chris Erwin:Was that the expectation from your role or was that you just having some gumption of being a self-starter? Brendan Gahan:Not to pat myself on the back, but I think it was definitely me sort of having a little bit of gumption. I think I also just didn't know. It was a relatively small loose agency. And so I thought, well, it wasn't like this is exactly how you're supposed to do this job, and this, this and this, I think creativity was really encouraged and so long as work was getting done, anything I wanted to do sort of beyond that was like, all right, yeah, sure, that sounds cool. Chris Erwin:So did that spirit, is that what drove you... Did you work directly with Smosh? What is that story there? Brendan Gahan:Yeah. So late 2006, this client the agency had had before I was even there, they came to the agency and they were like, "Hey, we want to do an ad campaign. We don't have a big budget." And it was a portable MP3 player. And the partners at the agency were talking about it right behind me. And they were about to turn it down. And it was one of those situations where in hindsight, yes, it was not much money, and they should have turned it down by all means. But I just butted in. I was like, "Hey, what if we pitched them this idea of getting these kids on YouTube to promote it. And we just rather than try and squeeze like a campaign into this budget, let's just do one video." Brendan Gahan:And so they were like, "Oh, that sounds kind of cool. Yeah, let's pitch it to the company, to the brand." And they bought it. I think I literally turned around after the partners said it was okay to pitch it to the client and I emailed Ian and Anthony, found their email on MySpace and they emailed me back that afternoon. And I think the next week they came by the office because they were just up in Sacramento area, so it wasn't too far. Chris Erwin:They were one of the biggest YouTube channels at the time, right? Just for context, this is 2005, 2006. Facebook had just started in '04. YouTube had just started in '04. Google bought them I think a couple years later. So Ian and Anthony were probably one of the biggest personalities on the platform at that time. Brendan Gahan:Yeah. I think they might have been number two. I know they eventually were number one for a couple of years, but I don't think they were quite number one yet. It was sort of like early days and there was a lot of jostling for position and stuff. Chris Erwin:So you got their emails from their MySpace page, you hit them up. That definitely wouldn't happen today, not as easy to go direct to the top creators. And then they came by your office, what happened? Brendan Gahan:Yeah, they came by, by that point we had gotten the thumbs up from the client to like, "Oh yeah, sure, we're down, if you can make it work." They came by the office, we literally got in a room and it was sort of funny. I remember nobody knew what you would charge for something like this, you know? So we were literally just kicking around like, what would you want to charge for this? I don't know, how much do you want to pay for this? Just going back and forth. And then finally, one of the partners was like, "Well, I don't know, would you guys do it for like 15 grand or something?" And they were like, "Probably, why don't we go back to..." I think Anthony's dad was an accountant or something like that. Brendan Gahan:And they were going to run it by him. I might have those details wrong, but they were like, it was basically like a, pretty sure that'll work. Let's go talk to our parents. And then they came back and they were like, sure, and so we did it, they made this video called Feet for Hands. I remember when it went live it crashed the client's website, which I thought was so fucking cool. I felt so validated. And then, yeah, it got like millions of views. And I just wanted to do that again and again, and again. And I saw what Mekanism was doing and my first boss at that agency, he'd left for Mekanism, Jason Harris, the president and CEO of Mekanism now. He joined Mekanism, became a partner. And we had a great working relationship. Brendan Gahan:I interned for him and stuff. And I showed in that video, I was like, look, look, look at this thing. It's got three million views. I know I can help you guys. I was so envious of the work they were doing. They were doing like early viral video stuff. And this is like 2006, 2007, when a lot of this stuff, people weren't paying attention at all. And so I was just so envious of the projects they were working on. And they brought me in for a few interviews and I literally met the whole agency, which at the time was pretty small, I think like twice. And then they hired me. Chris Erwin:Was this East Coast based? Brendan Gahan:This is all West Coast. They were in San Francisco, just a few blocks away from the office I was at, at the time, and then got hired, it was like Mekanism was doing a ton of branded content, viral video stuff but oftentimes without any paid media. The platforms, most of them didn't even have paid media as an option. I think at the time you could buy a YouTube homepage banner and that was it. Facebook didn't have it. There was no sort of formal way of promoting that stuff for the most part. So we sort of, myself and a couple other guys, younger guys, we built out a team over time that was the social media team. And we were just constantly coming up with different ways to promote content, doing everything from Reddit seeding to tons and tons of work with creators. We worked with all the big creators in those early days, which was great, because it was a small community. We got to make a lot of deeper relationships at the time. Chris Erwin:Yeah. And you were probably working with a lot of those creators direct versus now there's tons of representatives, managers and agencies, and sometimes you never even talk to the end talent, but back then probably different. Brendan Gahan:Oh, 100%, yeah. We would get pretty elaborate sometimes with these campaigns, we would do like in person summits and kickoffs. We worked with 20th Century Fox on some campaigns, and we would fly like 50 influencers in and a bunch obviously would be in LA, but host these elaborate dinners and events, and sometimes it'd be two, three days long where they're meeting with the execs, meeting with actors, kind of getting a download of the campaign, what the expectations were for them. Then we'd take them out, go partying. So it was cool. Got to spend a lot of face time with people and it was a really fascinating time. Chris Erwin:You were there for about five to six years at Mekanism, right? Brendan Gahan:Yeah. Chris Erwin:And then I think you transitioned to full screen after that for a brief stint, but then you started your own agency, Epic Signal. So what was the catalyst for you to leave this kind of the broader corporate support and other people that were helping elevate your career to say, I want to do something differently, I'm going to do it by myself. Brendan Gahan:I felt like full screen was exploding at the time. You know this, all the MCNs were blowing up, but I felt like there was a lot of distraction and stuff. And the thing that I was really passionate about at its core was the strategy in collaborating with both brands and creators to create something awesome. And I felt like full screen, it was like they were trying to grow this MCN, this network and make a scalable business. So it was a little bit different from what I was really passionate about. And so I left, I thought I was just going to take my time sort of consulting. But I mean, this was like when influencer marketing was reaching this new fevered pitch because... We talked about it yesterday. Sometime around there, Maker was acquired, all these clients that I'd worked with and people at different agencies that I'd worked with over the years came out of the woodwork and were like, we have to have an influencer strategy. Brendan Gahan:We have to have a YouTube strategy. And I'd been the, air quotes, like YouTube guy and influencer guy since 2006. So I was one of a handful of people who had sort of like this deep bench and experience in this niche. So all my old clients started hitting me up. All of a sudden I had more work than I could personally do. And slowly started hiring people just out of necessity, because I didn't want to say no to these awesome opportunities. I was like, oh crap. I get to work with Mountain Dew, hell yeah, let's do it. Chris Erwin:I do want to clarify, but when you went off on your own, I mean I'm sure look, as the industry is growing, Google original channels program happened in 2011, 2012, hundreds of millions of dollars of funding into digitally native production companies to fuel the overall video ecosystem to help you to recruit more advertisers. And so when you decided to go off on your own to start Epic Signal, why was that? Had you always wanted to be an entrepreneur? Did you think like, hey, I want to be an owner and I'm early in a very nascent industry and so this is scary, but I'm going to get an early foothold and see what happens. Brendan Gahan:It honestly wasn't as strategic as that, it was more like, I felt like my strengths could be better utilized going off on my own. And I like being really hands on and strategic. It was really as simple as, well, I want do this work the way that I know how to do it and the way I want to do it. And if that takes me going off on my own, then that's what I'm going to do. So I did. And in hindsight, it sounds much smarter than it was, it was not smart from like an on paper standpoint. I left full screen. I left my equity on the tape because I left just shy of a year, but I just felt like it was the right thing for me to do, because I knew, I'd seen this space grow so fast and I was like, I've been doing it longer than most people. I have relationships, I have a sense of what strategically works. I want to do it the way that I want to do it. And that just made me feel good, and so that's what I did. Chris Erwin:Now did you launch Epic Signal in LA or did you move to New York? Brendan Gahan:So I was in LA, but very quickly was splitting my time up between LA and New York. I was going back and forth. I'd spend two weeks in LA, two weeks in New York, back, forth, back forth constantly, and then was about to move to New York officially, I ended up having more clients there than anywhere else, more brands I was working with there than anywhere else. And then as I was sort of putting the plan together to do that, I ended up selling it. And then I had to move to New York, so it moved things along. Chris Erwin:That happened pretty quickly, right? Because I think you had Epic Signal for, was it a couple years before you sold it to Mekanism? Brendan Gahan:Yeah, I think it was just shy of two years. It was almost two full years, yeah. Chris Erwin:Okay. And when you decided to sell, how big was your team at that point? Brendan Gahan:It wasn't big. It was like a half dozen people. Chris Erwin:Okay. Why did you decide to sell? Brendan Gahan:I found myself in a situation where I was doing so much back office stuff. It was like the very thing that I left to go do was, I wanted to focus on the strategy and deal with that, do the actual work. And then what I found was, when you are an entrepreneur, it's very easy to get sucked into dealing with lawyers and accounts, and payroll, and all this stuff that is not fun, all that back office stuff. Chris Erwin:I'm feeling you right now on that. That's where I feel like I'm at with RockWater. Brendan Gahan:You try and delegate it, but it's like all these things get this overflow back to you. And so I was back in this situation where I was doing the work that wasn't making me happy. And at the same time, I sort of felt like I have this window of opportunity where it's like, this is a really small team, we're lean and mean. We've got great profit margins. We've also got dope clients. We were working with like ABI. We worked on Bud Light campaigns, Corona. We did work with several PepsiCo brands, a handful of others. So we had a dope roster of clients that we were working with, a handful of whom were on retainer. And I was like, we have this niche where we're focusing on helping brands with YouTube strategy and YouTube creators. And oftentimes, especially the bigger brands, like a Pepsi, Mountain Dew, they had multiple agencies and they would have like a social AOR even. Brendan Gahan:And they did have a social AOR, but I was like, it's only going to be a matter of time before I get squeezed out and they start offering this services that I'm sort of in this interesting niche I can offer at this time that they don't have. And so I felt like the cache of the brands that I had, the team in place, people would find it desirable because of the relationships and already booked revenue, and great team. And so I thought I'll try and capitalize on my time and see if I can make a deal happen. Brendan Gahan:And then I had a letter of intent on the table and I would call my old boss at Mekanism for advice. "Hey, I'm negotiating with these guys, and this is a deal on the table. Does this make sense? What should I push back on?" So he was aware that things were moving along. And basically I was in New York, I had signed a letter of intent, things were sort of going through due diligence and all that. And he was like, "Let's grab drinks." So I met up with him for a drink. He's like, "Just come back." I was like, "All right, well, I got a deal in hand if you can beat it, I'm down. Like let's do it." I loved working with him. Chris Erwin:Hey listeners, this is Chris Erwin. Your host of The Come Up. I have a quick ask for you. If you dig what we're putting down, if you like the show, if you like our guests, it would really mean a lot if you can give us a rating wherever you listen to our show. It helps other people discover our work. And it also really supports what we do here. All right, that's it everybody, let's get back to the interview. Chris Erwin:I have to ask, did you run a formal sales process where you decided to sell and then you're like, all right, here's the 20 best fit buyers that are out there and I'm going to go call them or I'm going to hire someone to dial for dollars on the company's behalf. And/or were you also just getting unsolicited in bounds that you were like, oh, hey, this is interesting. Maybe with the market timing, things that you were sharing, where there was a lot of brands had big agencies of record, you felt that you were going to get squeezed out. So now is the time to sell, what was that looking like? Brendan Gahan:Exactly that, but sort of like the inverse. Initially, I sort of had a hunch and so I sort of informally had some conversations and dinners with people where like, I didn't come right out and say, "Hey, I want to sell," I didn't want to come across as desperate. Because I mean, and I wasn't, I wasn't desperate, but I wanted to sell. But I would sort of just seed the idea, like, "Hey, I'm kicking around the idea of selling, I'd love to do X, Y, and Z. And like' Chris Erwin:Just like dating, the classic courting phase, you're just doing the dance. Brendan Gahan:Exactly. And then once people started expressing interests, I was like, okay, I'm definitely onto something. This is something I'm way out of my depth on. So I asked around and some buddies recommended some lawyers and I hired them and signed a deal with them. And I was like, all right, let's make this happen. And that was the best decision I could have made. They earned every dime I paid them and then some, because beyond just the relief of handing it over, they definitely got me more money and I didn't ever have to be the bad guy throughout the process, which I'm very bad at saying no to people in negotiations and stuff like that. They were just like, every step of the way they were like, "No, just pass it over to us. We'll take care of it." And then they would hit me up and they're like, "Here's what's on the table, here's what we advise. What do you want to do?" And the process was stressful enough as it is, but having them sort of take the reins just alleviated so much stress. Chris Erwin:Selling your company is a very unique work stream that requires a very unique set of skills to execute well. And it can be very emotional for a founder, operator and CEO. This is your baby. You could transform your life through a big liquidity event, but it's also going to impact, you might be selling to another company and working for someone else. So having a partner there to guide you along the way is really important. I mean, I saw this a lot because I was a banker on Wall Street back in the day and sold a variety of different companies and helped shepherd the sale with Big Frame to Awesomeness TV. I just talked about that in the last podcast with Sarah Penna, one of the co-founders of Big Frame, and it's a really big decision. Chris Erwin:So I totally get it. I'm curious, who were the buyers that you were talking to? Was it different brand agencies? Was it different brands that wanted to actually just bring you on in house? Was it some of the emerging YouTube MCNs that wanted to build out their influencer sales arm? What was that group looking like? Brendan Gahan:I think it was two MCNs and this holding company, I won't name names and stuff, but it was a fascinating process. And to your point about seeing it and it being stressful and all this stuff, if you think about it, it's like, it's an experience that, as an owner or an entrepreneur you're out of your depth, it's a very unique thing that happens. It doesn't happen that often. And so bringing in professionals is so helpful because they actually do these deals. I'm doing totally different types of deals. I have no experience selling an organization. Chris Erwin:Yeah. You need to create a very compelling story and also urgency, get people excited and the feeling that they're going to miss out. So if you kind of go after the process willy nilly, you can set up a really bad result for your company. And also for your counterparties that are saying, "Hey, we're interested here. We've been in talks for a while. Why is this dragging along? Who else are you talking to?" Chris Erwin:So you can really damage, not only all the value that you've created for your business, but it can impact your team, it can impact the ability of you to continue working in the industry thereafter. So got to do it right. But so many say, I was just talking to a banker about this yesterday. Oftentimes, transactions result from long standing relationships and trust that have been built. So the end buyer for Epic Signal was your past boss at Mekanism, that became your eventual home. So after you joined forces with them, was the mandate, "Hey Brendan, come back on board. You're now part of the senior leadership team. The market opportunity is even bigger. Let's go after it with you and your whole team in a bigger way." Brendan Gahan:Pretty much, yeah. It was a bit of a plug and play option, they had... Obviously there was a social team when I left, the feeling was like there wasn't... A number of people had left by the time I came back, so I was able to bring my team in, merge it with the existing team. And we started expanding the offerings again. When I was running Epic Signal, I deliberately tried to keep it very narrow in niche, because I couldn't compete with a big social agency, it just wouldn't happen. Brendan Gahan:But by having two very key offerings, it streamlined so much of the processes and it gave me a clear point of differentiation. And when I joined back up with Mekanism, it was like full service, social, we're doing everything, community management in the lightweight, social content creation, analytics, reporting, influencer marketing, all this stuff. And so had to scale up the team and integrate with the larger organization as a whole. And it was fun. I think I'm sort of like this entrepreneur at heart or intrapreneur, and I like the process of sort of building and evolving and exploring new opportunities. So it was a really good fit, is a good fit. Chris Erwin:Thinking back on all of the brand and influencer campaigns that you've done, there's got to be one or two that stand out in terms of just something crazy went down. I think back to at Big Frame, working with some talent, doing a six figure brand deal, talent deciding literally two hours before something's supposed to go live that they're not going to post it or having a meltdown on the floor of VidCon and sobbing and crying because they're having a personal breakdown, because look, that life is tough and burnout is real in the influencer space. I remember a bunch of stories when we were launching different content verticals and flying in different 40 creators into like a creator house. This is like back in 2013, before there was like the modern creator houses of today. So any stories from the trenches that you remember from your early days? Brendan Gahan:Oh my God. Yeah, it's like, working with creators I think is one of those things, when you're in it, you're almost like, I'm never going to do this again. Then afterwards you're like, oh, that wasn't so bad. That was really fun. I think probably one that took the cake as far as stress goes, was we were working with Brisk Iced Tea, which is a PepsiCo brand. And we're about to host a summit because Brisk was relaunching, they had Eminem in the super bowl spot, and they were reviving the Claymation look. They did one with Ozzy Osborne, they did one with Danny Trejo, and we were actually having Danny Trejo fly out to New York, and he was going to meet with all these creators and stuff. And this was during the winter before super bowl. So I don't know if it was like December or January, or maybe early February, but there was a massive snowstorm. Brendan Gahan:Flights kept getting canceled and delayed. And I remember being glued to my phone, refreshing constantly, looking at, I think there were a handful of flights that were going to make it out of LA to New York before things were going to get canceled. And I remember, we signed up all these creators, Danny Trejo was going to show and he was going to be the cool, shiny object, and his flight to New York. I remember it kept getting delayed, delayed, delayed, it got canceled. We got him on another flight, delayed, delayed, delayed. And I was just like refreshing my phone and being like, this whole thing is going to fucking fall apart if that flight doesn't take off. It sounds like not that big a deal right now but I remember it was just one of those moments where I was just like, the whole thing was going to fall apart. The world was on my shoulders and I was just freaking out. But I've had a million situations like that, I remember- Chris Erwin:Did that work out? Did he get on the flight and did the campaign come together? Brendan Gahan:Oh yeah, he ended up [crosstalk 00:34:02]. Chris Erwin:He's like, I can't leave the audience hanging. Brendan Gahan:Yeah. He made it and it was freaking amazing. We thought we had him for like an hour, he was going to do a little talk, kind of talk about... His story's amazing first off. And then his spot with Brisk was super cool. And we thought people were going to get a kick out of that. I think we had like 45 minutes for him booked. He was going to come out and hang out and talk with the creators. I think it was like 20 or so creators. And we thought that was going to be this awesome experience for everyone before we sort of called it a day and then went out. And he was so cool. He came out, told this story, which is insane. And then he was like, "All right, what are we doing next, guys?" And he hung out... We had all these YouTubers there. Brendan Gahan:We had like Nice Peter and Mike Diva, and Tim DeLaGhetto, all those guys. And he made himself available to do cameos and their vlogs or any content they were making. Chris Erwin:Wow. Brendan Gahan:People would be like, "Hey, can you pretend to choke me out and beat me up for my video?" And he'd be like, "Oh sure." He just was there hanging out all day. And then we were going to take all the creators out to a dinner, take them to [inaudible 00:35:10] or one of those, where drinking and bowling and stuff. And he's like, "Oh, could I come along?" He doesn't drink. So he didn't drink. But he was hanging with the whole crew, all of us until, I don't know, like one in the morning or something. He was the nicest guy, and so it was this amazing sort of transition from like the day before, one of the most stressful experiences of my life. I don't think I slept that night to everything went off better than I could have possibly hoped for. Chris Erwin:I just want to call that out. I think that's one of the beautiful things about working with digitally native creators and being in the advertising business, is meeting all these incredible personalities. So I think Danny Trejo, tell me if I'm wrong, but I think he's LA born, Latin, very tatted up, I think had a pretty rough upbringing, but made his way into American movies and TV series. And he often plays like the bad guy or the thug and maybe those roles have been evolving, but what you see on screen- Brendan Gahan:It's pretty spot on. Chris Erwin:Yeah, what you see on screen is clearly very different than who his actual personality is, and were it not for what you're doing, Brendan, you would never have gotten to meet him, and you probably have hundreds of stories like that, that's a pretty beautiful thing. Brendan Gahan:We did one campaign with Virgin Mobile, they were sponsoring Lady Gaga's tour at the time, we got to go hang out with Lady Gaga after one of her shows like, it was wild. I bring up celebrities, but I think honestly hanging out with the creators was my favorite thing, because especially back then, there was a lot of uncertainty in terms of like, how am I going to turn this into a job? Or this is my job, but I'm just kind of scraping by. And it was an interesting mix of sort of a lot of belief in what they were doing, which I found super admirable, and I was almost envious of the fact that they took that leap as well as this sort of insecurity and doubt that they had. Brendan Gahan:There's so much pressure to keep making content and to power through, but at the same time, not knowing exactly where it was headed. You think back then, like the daily vloggers, that was a big thing in that era, those guys, we would spend all day with them doing stuff for the brand. And then when other people would go have dinner and drinks late into the night, they would have to go edit and they'd be editing until like three in the morning, running on [crosstalk 00:37:21] of sleep. Yeah. Chris Erwin:You ask what kids want to be nowadays, they want to be a creator, but whether it's a daily vlogger, or you're creating content, you're managing a fandom that is always on, and that's a lot to take on and that's why there's burnout. And I hear you, some of those early creators, they were probably just racing because they're like, hey, I have put all my resources into this, all my focus. Maybe this goes away in a couple years because the fans' interests and the passions are going to change or the algorithms are going to change and maybe this is not going to be here. So it was like a money land grab. Chris Erwin:But Brendan, when you say that you would look at creators and say, oh, I was jealous how they took the leap, maybe I want to take the leap as well. You took that leap during COVID and you started really building out your own personal audience and thought leadership. And that speaks to that you like to do things on the side. I think you have a strong entrepreneurial or intrapreneurial spirit as you described. And I don't think it just started over the past couple years. I think when we were talking in advance of this interview, you were investing back in the day as well. And I think that you were an early investor in Big Frame, is that right? Brendan Gahan:So I did invest in Big Frame, but via Mekanism because I knew Sarah from back in the day when she was working for Phil DeFranco. And so when she was starting it, I was like, oh my gosh, can we get in? So yeah, we made this small investment and I just sort of wanted to be a part of all that. I definitely had like a serious case of FOMO. Chris Erwin:Yeah. I think that was really cool. I think Sarah and Steve, we actually had a bunch of different creators and I think peer business partners in our cap table, a way of giving them ownership as a thank you, helping us build this together. And so when we sold, all those creators that were in our cap table got some money. Was it life changing money? No, but it was something. And I think they really represented a pretty special ethos from the top. Brendan Gahan:That's awesome. That's so cool. Chris Erwin:But yeah, and you are also early on and I think you still are, you're an advisor to the VidCon board, is that right? Brendan Gahan:Yeah. So I sit on the advisory board for the industry track specifically. So I mean, I've been to all the US VidCons, a bunch of the international ones. So I was always deep in that space. And I've known Jim since the Revision3 days, he was, Jim Louderback the CEO was the CEO of Revision3, which was one of the big early MCNs. And I'm not sure exactly to be honest how that came about other than... But I think what prompted it was as part of the acquisition of Viacom for VidCon, Jim came on board and I think it was a way to make sure that, I think he put together a few advisory boards to make sure that he was getting a lot of input from multiple points, because for so long the community was relatively insular, and its expanded so much so quickly. Chris Erwin:I first met you, I think via an introduction from Chas, Chas Lacaillade who I think was an early interview on this podcast. You guys overlapped at full screen back in 2013 and then have both built your own businesses after that, pretty funny track. And first met you in New York. And I remember a conversation a year and a half ago or a couple years ago, I was asking, what are you focused on? What are you doing? You're a dabbler in so many things, you're at Mekanism, but I'm seeing that you're doing all this incredible thought leadership on LinkedIn, all these incredible posts and you're really consistent about it. Chris Erwin:They were really high quality. And you said, "Hey Chris, I'm really focused on building an audience. And I think audience in the modern creator economy is one of the most valuable currencies that you can have." And you weren't completely clear what you wanted to do with that audience, but you're like, I'm going to build and now's a great time to do it. So I am curious to hear that story of how that came to be and what you're working on today. Brendan Gahan:You probably said that so much more articulate than I did. I'm going to have to remember that, but yeah. That was definitely the insight. I think the way it came about was sort of like, I was legitimately beating myself up over the fact that I had probably hundreds of pages of writing and thoughts in Google Drive that I'd never published as a blog post. And I would just like constantly beat myself up over this. I'd have what I thought was a great idea. I'd work on a blog post and then it would just sort of get longer and longer and longer and longer. And then eventually it became this daunting task to like push it out, because I had a blog for a while and I would sort of fall into this pattern and then not publish for like a long, long time. Brendan Gahan:And the thing I sort of found was the hardest part was to press publish really. And so I was like, okay, well what's the easiest way I can get myself to kind of overcome that, because I did want an audience. I felt like I had thoughts that I wanted to get out of my own head. And so basically I was like, all right, what is sort of the easiest way to do this and inoculate myself to this idea that this fear of pressing publish. And so I started small and basically I was like, all right, well, I'm going to start posting one thing a day on LinkedIn. It doesn't matter if it's simply sharing an article, just writing cool or writing a whole blog post if I feel like it. And that made it very approachable. Brendan Gahan:In the early days, I would literally just sit there and press a timer, 20 minutes and write. When it was done, I'd give it a once over and then press publish. And that really helped me sort of start to overcome this fear, and did that for all of, what was that 2020 I believe. And then at some point towards the end of 2020, I was like... We'd already done multiple TikTok campaigns and I'd seen the power of TikTok, and like early days, you can still get in there and you can have an impact. Brendan Gahan:It's a softer landing than it will be later. So after seeing all the successful campaigns, I was encouraging my fiance to get on there and do it. And then every time she would post something, it would blow up. Because she had a decent sized YouTube channel and Instagram but it wasn't massive. And I was like, just get on TikTok, trust me. So I found myself sort of giving this advice to everyone, but not taking it myself. And I was like, all right, I should just... These opportunities they only come by every few years if you're lucky, and I was like, I need to just take my own advice. And so in the same way I had to get over writing and sharing my thoughts, I had to get over that with TikTok. Chris Erwin:Yeah, putting yourself on video, that's a big difference than writing and text base expression on LinkedIn. Brendan Gahan:It was so hard. It was so hard. She used to laugh at me because I would put the camera on me and then I would just try and say something, and I would be like, "Fuck, fuck," and then try and say a word and I'd stutter. And I would sit there for like 20 minutes trying to spit out two sentences. Chris Erwin:Brendan, I got to say, I feel you on that because Kevin Gould at Kombo Ventures, he would do these job rec videos on LinkedIn where he'd just be like, call it one or two minutes. "Hey, we're Kombo Ventures, I'm Kevin, we're looking to hire someone, this is what we're doing. And here's who we're looking for." I record these and this is like an inner tip on me. I'll record that like 15 times, it's a one minute video, but I'll say no, I skipped up, I said something I didn't want to say. I don't like how I look. I don't like the lighting, and people think like, oh yeah, you just put it up and that'll be like my one thing I need to get done in the morning, and it'll take me 15 tries to do it. Then you just go to think about, okay, if you're a professional creator doing that for a living, I really feel it then, it's a pretty good glimpse into it. Brendan Gahan:100%. And I think one thing I saw Roberto Blake, maybe, I think I saw a video or saw him tweet, you've got to make 100 bad videos to get to your first good one, or maybe it was Mr. Beast. And I was like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that's very true. And that sort of made me embrace the fact that the first ones are going to be awful, and I tried to not focus on like each one, but more building the habit because that would, I don't know how else to say it, but sort of inoculate yourself to that feeling of just sheer fear and anxiety of getting in front of the camera. Chris Erwin:On the outside looking in, I look at, we're a big content marketing machine at RockWater to drive awareness and legitimacy for the services that we do as the self-described McKinsey of the creator economy, right? Market research, strategy advisory, capital raising, and all of that. We look at what you're doing, Brendan, from your LinkedIn posts to your blog, to now almost I think over 100,000 followers on TikTok. It's very, very impressive. A lot of people in the industry say the same thing, right? Like, oh, do you see Brendan's path and what he's posting? It's incredible. I look at the TikTok videos. They're very well edited. Are you doing that yourself? Do you have a team helping you? Brendan Gahan:I'm not editing them myself anymore. I was up until late last year. So I hired an editor out of the Philippines actually who works full time on my TikTok. Then he does design for my blog posts and a bunch of different things basically, he helps me out with a bunch of stuff and that's been a huge relief because now I feel like I'm trying to transition to... There's almost sort of like, as a creator and this is something I observe, but I'm having trouble implementing it, sort of like people find you because of your topic is interesting or maybe you've got a helpful bit of information, but then they stick around and embrace you because of kind of the personality piece. Brendan Gahan:And I'm really trying to sort of evolve it into creating something that provides more insight into me at the same time. And hopefully people feel like there's a connection to me rather than like, "Hey, here are just some interesting stats or an interesting strategy." So that's sort of like where my head is at in terms of where I want to take it. I haven't quite figured out how I'm going to do that. But I think similar to just the same way I got started before, I'm just trying to throw things out there and see what sticks. Chris Erwin:Loudly from the RockWater team, keep doing what you're doing. We love it. Brendan Gahan:Oh, thanks. I appreciate that. Chris Erwin:Yeah. A closing theme before we get into some rapid fire questions and close out the interview. What's next for Brendan and Mekanism? And maybe that's a theme of talking about, what do you think is most exciting in the creator economy and how do you want to support it? You've been writing about Web 3 and X to earn models. Is that something that you're thinking a lot about lately? Brendan Gahan:In terms of Mekanism, I really enjoy that. And so long as I get to work with great brands and great people and do great work I'm content. In terms of the creator economy and stuff, I love everything that's happening there. And I do a little bit of investing and advising, and I love nothing more than sort of brainstorming with people who are building, it's so exciting. And I think the aspect of the creator economy that I'm really fascinated by is sort of... Rather than, most of the VCs coming in are like, oh, we're going to build this scalable product for creators. And that's interesting, but I think the thing that's more interesting is sort of the creators building their own brands, and I think right now production and productization, that's sort of the commodity piece. The development of a brand and cultivation of an audience is becoming the differentiator and the most valuable asset. Brendan Gahan:We were talking about that at the beginning, an audience is leverage. And so as we see sort of this transition from like Web 2 to Web 3, where everybody sort of breaks it down, Web 1 was read, Web 2 is read, write, Web 3 is read, write, own. If the creators of platforms and communities within Web 3 are the users and owners, it makes sense that they would be less likely to embrace traditional methods of advertising. There are some stats out there, like 96% of people hate ads. Yeah, nobody likes most advertising. There are great ads, but by and large people don't want advertising. So those who are sort of able to understand how to embrace communities and build communities, they're going to have a leg up as we sort of transition to Web 3. And we're already seeing the ripple effects of this. Brendan Gahan:I mean like iOS 14 impacted the ability to advertise, do targeted advertising. Creators are launching big brands now faster than ever, partnering with creators is the easiest way to have an impact because they've maintained that direct line of communication to their audience. And so I think creators building and owning brands is really exciting. And also, people are like, oh, like creators think it's in this nascent state. And yes, in the grand scheme of things, it is. But there are already multi billion dollar creator brands. It's so funny, I mean, you probably know him, but Richard Ryan, he was a YouTuber back in the day. I used to do a ton of work with him. He and this other YouTuber, Matt Best, they partnered with some other guys a few years back. They were the guys that launched Black Rifle Coffee, which I didn't realize how big that brand was until they IPOed, and like- Chris Erwin:Yeah, they just went public, right? Brendan Gahan:They went public. I actually was in Austin two weeks ago, I hung out with Richard. It was so wild. It's like, that was built, the platform for that initially was YouTubers. So it's really fascinating. And we're seeing all these other great brands, Logan Paul and KSI, their Gatorade competitor, et cetera. I think that aspect of the business, it just shows how powerful these creators are, which I think is really, really exciting. Chris Erwin:The Black Rifle Coffee, we were doing some research into that company a year ago to understand how some of these creator led brands and particularly CPG brands are incubated and looking at their story, and look, I don't want to undersell what they have done, but I think the quality of their coffee is good, but that's not their specialty. It's that they have these personalities behind it. And this ethos founded by former members of the military, pride in country. And they've built an incredible business doing that. And they've gotten a lot of other ambassadors that have helped them build their business along the way. And I think, yeah, it was funny, Chas was telling me about this. I guess you guys maybe hung out with Richard together. I would love to interview Richard on the podcast. So if he's listening, I'm going to be reaching out soon. Brendan Gahan:Richard's a really, really good dude. Chris Erwin:All right. So Brendan, we're going to enter the last segment of this interview. We're going to do a rapid fire, six questions, and the rules are as follows. With these questions, looking for short answers. So one sentence, or maybe even just one to two words, do you understand the rules? Brendan Gahan:Yes. Chris Erwin:Let's get into it. Proudest life moment? Brendan Gahan:Still ahead of me. Chris Erwin:What do you want to do less of in 2022? Brendan Gahan:Emails and late night work sessions. Chris Erwin:What do you want to do more of? Brendan Gahan:IRL time with friends and family. Chris Erwin:Okay. Maybe more time in Bitcoin Beach, down in El Salvador. Brendan Gahan:Yeah. Serious. Chris Erwin:What one to two things drive your success? Brendan Gahan:I'll keep this one short, crippling insecurity. Chris Erwin:Okay. I dig it. Advice for media execs going into 2022? Brendan Gahan:Get your hands dirty. Chris Erwin:Any future startup ambitions? Brendan Gahan:TBD. Chris Erwin:To elaborate on that, that could be some intrapreneurship at Mekanism or other things you're doing on the sides. I think my prediction is, this audience that you're building particularly on TikTok, I think something's going to come out of that in a pretty unique way. Brendan Gahan:So long as I can think and strategize, I'm very content. Chris Erwin:Here's the last one, Brendan, pretty easy. How can people get in contact with you? Brendan Gahan:Just Google my name, Brendan, B-R-E-N-D-A-N, Gahan, G-A-H-A-N. I'm on all the socials. So whatever your platform of choice is, you'll be able to find me. Chris Erwin:Yeah. And his website is great, lots of content there. Brendangahan.com. All right, cool. Brendan, thanks for being on the show. This was a delight. Brendan Gahan:Thank you. This was a lot of fun. I really appreciate you having me on and I love all the content you guys put out, so I'm really stoked to have made the cut and be on this. Chris Erwin:Very welcome, an easy decision. Chris Erwin:Wow. That was a super fun interview. And I really learned a lot. I think that Brendan and I are kindred spirits in a couple ways. One, our mutual love for surfing in Southern California, and two, just the vulnerabilities of putting yourself out there as a content creator. So that was really fun. Quick note, we just hosted our first executive event of 2022 just this past Thursday in LA. We did a media and commerce executive dinner at Chilena. It was awesome. We had an incredible array of guests. I think over 50 people came out and I also hosted a panel about the future of livestream commerce. So we had the head of operations of Popshop Live there, and the founder and CEO of both Verb, which is the parent company of Market.live and also StageTEN, just an awesome chat. It was a lot of fun, really great energy, and we're pumped to do more. Chris Erwin:So I think we're planning a dinner for investors in media and commerce coming up in the fall in New York City. And then also, we want to put another one together for sports media. So if you'd like to get involved as a sponsor, as a guest, or you want to be on a panel that I will moderate, reach out, you can hit us up at hello@wearerockwater.com. And then as always for all you listeners out there of our podcasts, we love to hear from you. If you have any ideas for guests or any feedback on the show, just shoot us a note, TCUpod@wearerockwater.com. All right, that's it everybody. Thanks for listening. Chris Erwin:The Come Up is written and hosted by me, Chris Erwin, and is a production of RockWater Industries. Please rate and review this show on Apple Podcasts and remember to subscribe wherever you listen to our show. And if you really dig us, feel free to forward The Come Up to a friend. You can sign up for our company newsletter at wearerockwater.com/newsletter, and you could follow us on Twitter @TCUpod. The Come Up is engineered by Daniel Tureck, music is by Devon Bryant, logo and branding is by Kevin Zazzali, and special thanks to Alex Zirin and Eric Kenigsberg from the RockWater team. 

Go watch Mike: https://www.youtube.com/user/MikeDiva---More episodes: http://t1podcast.comMerch: http://merch.t1podcast.comPatreon bonus content: https://www.patreon.com/t1podcastDiscord server: https://discord.gg/JNuyZXTMusic theme credits: https://bit.ly/FirstPodcastMusicCreditsGet a free audiobook today, no strings attached. All you have to do is try out Audible at audibletrial.com/t1podcast! Keep the book whether you stick with the service or not.This podcast is © 2018+ Lars Housholder and Amir Ramirez. For all business inquiries, please contact our agent: t1podcastbusiness@gmail.com

How far would you go to make a viral video? Would you make a fool of yourself? Strap on some sexy pants? Beat babies? Technically commit an act of terror? Mike Diva somehow did all of that as he created a slew of classic viral videos like Sexy Sax Guy, the Japanese Trump Commercial, and the Tokyo Stomp. Yeah, he’s that guy. After Mike went viral, he continued on to be a successful music video and commercial director and his most recent epic video for Run the Jewels and the Cyberpunk2077 is a gorgeous cybernetic masterpiece. In this episode, host Mike Pecci talks with Mike Diva about how he went from chasing his shirtless friend around malls to directing commercials for Xbox. Watch this episode on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvwVCqTWKMY Mike Diva's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mikediva Mike Pecci's IG: instagram.com/mikepecci ILWP's IG: instagram.com/inlovewiththeprocesspod ILWP Subreddit: www.reddit.com/r/inlovewiththeprocess Yell at Spotify here to allow you to rate podcasts: community.spotify.com/t5/Ideas/ct-p/newideas Email us to see 12KM: inlovewiththeprocess@gmail.com Featuring Music by Code Elektro: www.codeelektro.com/ Say hi to our friends over at Film Riot: www.filmriot.com/ The Episode is Sponsored by: EV: www.electrovoice.com Puget Systems: puget.systems/go/inlovewiththeprocess Puget Systems Consultation: www.pugetsystems.com/landing/Puget-…_hsmi=86870814 Quasar Science: www.quasarscience.com/ Industry Jump IG: www.instagram.com/industryjump/ Industry Jump: www.industryjump.com/ Support our show by signing up for a 30 day free trial at www.audibletrial.com/InLoveWithTheProcess

Zero Notifications is about curating news relevant to the internet world through lighthearted social commentary; hosted by ZombiUnicorn and IanMMori. New episodes are streamed live every other week on Twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/zombiunicorn) . ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ LINKS FROM EPISODE News: The Incel Culture Trap (https://www.cracked.com/blog/6-ways-you-can-get-sucked-into-incel-trap/) News Royale: Area 51 adoptions (https://www.youtube.com/redirect?redir_token=JLrV04v4aiH4x6q4biCelxTP2nV8MTU2NTQ0MzI1NUAxNTY1MzU2ODU1&q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thedodo.com%2Fclose-to-home%2Fshelter-does-area-51-inspired-photo-shoot&v=DTj8E5rPADk&event=video_description) Cats trailer (https://youtu.be/gq50F-IDXDc) Church of Satan tax exempt (https://www.patheos.com/blogs/infernal/2019/04/the-satanic-temple-is-now-a-registered-tax-exempt-church/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=share_bar) Follower Mode: TikTok @mr_yabatan TikTok @rextesterossa Starcadian (http://starcadian.com) Mike Diva (https://twitter.com/mikediva) & Lil Nas X (https://twitter.com/LilNasX) ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Get early access to episodes and bonus content on Patreon (https://www.patreon.com/zombiunicorn) . Follow the podcast: Twitter (https://twitter.com/0Notifications) | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/0notifications/) | Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/0notifications/) | Website (https://www.0notifications.com/) Follow ZombiUnicorn: Twitter (https://twitter.com/TheZombiUnicorn) | Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/thezombiunicorn) | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/TheZombiUnicorn) | Twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/zombiunicorn) | YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/TheZombiUnicorn) | Website (http://www.thezombiunicorn.com/) Follow IanMMori: Twitter (https://twitter.com/IanMMori) | Instagram (https://www.instagram.com/IanMMori) | Twitch (http://www.twitch.tv/OathMMori)

Sam sits down with Mike Diva (director & internet creative guru) to talk all things Internet culture.

We Have Travis Darian Woo on to talk about his regiment and training for upcoming Pro Tour Aether Revolt. We discuss how meaningless it is for the scrubs to even compete when the champion competes. Insane conversation and we mean to stir things up as usual. Haters (and we know this will ruffle feathers) direct all of your hatemail to sidshatemail@gmail.com (actual email account to reach us). If you have funny hate we will read it on the air. Patreon support appreciated !! www.patreon.com/Magicandhash www.twitch.tv/magicandhash Travis Woo - @TravisWizard on Twitter - TravisWizard https://www.facebook.com/traviswizard on facebook Tim: @magic_timmy on twitter – Tim Kempter on facebook – magicandhash@gmail.com – mogis on MTGO Sid: @TheSIDmiester on twitter – sidmiester78 on MTGO – Sid Swami on facebook (cast from exile group) magicandhash on soundcloud John: John Hollein on facebook – “his house” Special mention : Kazoo kid trap remix - Mike Diva and Sick System Closing Song:Snoop Dogg & Wiz Khalifa - Young, Wild & Free (Karetus Remix)

Mike Diva steps into the studio and talks to Kevin about spending a weekend in jail, his rise to the YouTube annals of greatness, and of course our lord and savior, Trump-san. Don't have time to prep all your fixins? Go to https://www.blueapron.com/pointless and get 2 free ready-to-cook meals with free shipping. Follow Mike on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/mikediva Follow Kevin on Twitter:  https://www.twitter.com/Attack @AttackSnap on Snapchat

On se retrouve dans la salle d'attente de l'hôpital pour discuter des vrais fou dangereux, ceux qui ont fait de leur passion du démembrement et du découpage de la chair humaine une carrière, les chirurgiens! Olivier nous parle encore de Brigitte Lahaie avec "Les prédateurs de la nuti" (1987), réalisé par Jess Franco. Tandis que Simon s'auto-torture en subissant le particulièrement mauvais "Frankenstein General Hospital" (1988), une comédie folichonne raté sur toute la ligne! La VHS insolite de la semaine, est "You on Kazoo" (1989) qui inspira le viral remix "Kazoo Kid" de Mike Diva qui a fait le tour de l'internet. Une vidéo pour enfants EXASPÉRANTE!! Bonne écoute!

On se retrouve dans la salle d'attente de l'hôpital pour discuter des vrais fou dangereux, ceux qui ont fait de leur passion du démembrement et du découpage de la chair humaine une carrière, les chirurgiens! Olivier nous parle encore de Brigitte Lahaie avec "Les prédateurs de la nuti" (1987), réalisé par Jess Franco. Tandis que Simon s'auto-torture en subissant le particulièrement mauvais "Frankenstein General Hospital" (1988), une comédie folichonne raté sur toute la ligne! La VHS insolite de la semaine, est "You on Kazoo" (1989) qui inspira le viral remix "Kazoo Kid" de Mike Diva qui a fait le tour de l'internet. Une vidéo pour enfants EXASPÉRANTE!! Bonne écoute!