Podcast appearances and mentions of virgie tovar

In this conversation, Virgie Tovar shares her personal journey with weight stigma and eating disorders, rooted in her family background. She discusses the societal implications of weight stigma, the rise of GLP-1 drugs, and their impact on body positivity. Virgie emphasizes the importance of creating weight-neutral environments in corporate settings and challenges the narrative surrounding weight loss drugs, advocating for a more compassionate understanding of body image and health. In this conversation, Virgie Tovar and Cristina Castagnini discuss the implications of weight loss drugs, particularly GLP-1s, and the societal pressures surrounding body image and health. They explore the misconceptions about weight loss and health, the dangers of diet culture, and the ethical concerns regarding marketing strategies that target vulnerable populations. The discussion emphasizes the need for a shift in perspective regarding health and body positivity, advocating for a more compassionate and informed approach to these issues.SHOW NOTES: Click hereFollow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behind_the_bite  

In this conversation, Virgie Tovar shares her personal journey with weight stigma and eating disorders, rooted in her family background. She discusses the societal implications of weight stigma, the rise of GLP-1 drugs, and their impact on body positivity. Virgie emphasizes the importance of creating weight-neutral environments in corporate settings and challenges the narrative surrounding weight loss drugs, advocating for a more compassionate understanding of body image and health. In this conversation, Virgie Tovar and Cristina Castagnini discuss the implications of weight loss drugs, particularly GLP-1s, and the societal pressures surrounding body image and health. They explore the misconceptions about weight loss and health, the dangers of diet culture, and the ethical concerns regarding marketing strategies that target vulnerable populations. The discussion emphasizes the need for a shift in perspective regarding health and body positivity, advocating for a more compassionate and informed approach to these issues.SHOW NOTES: Click hereFollow me on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/behind_the_bite  

We've all heard Tom Myers' comedy but what if you interviewed him and took him seriously? What would that sound like? Dan Caper hosts a show about the craft of joke writing and even lets Tom punch up some jokes he's been working on. This is Tom's calling in my opinion. Adam Busch joins us to marvel at how fame hasn't changed Tom Myers. Virgie Tovar has recently been appointed the weight czar for San Francisco's health department and her take is, “why would anyone want to be healthy?” Howard Stern is back from his holiday vacation and surprise surprise, he's bitter. He also interviews Nikki Glaser after she hosted the Golden Globes and got about an hour of sleep. Stuttering John is already reducing his rate for his new job. He's very bad at it. Cardiff joins the show as we play a new game, tease the next episode, read a review with Annie, and listen to your voicemails. Adam's new show - https://www.youtube.com/floqaststudios  Cardiff's channel – http://dabbleverse.tv/ Support us, get bonus episodes, and watch live every Saturday and Wednesday: http://bit.ly/watp-patreon https://watp.supercast.tech/ Come to Hackamania May 9-11 in Las Vegas with promo code WATP – https://hackamania.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Dr. Phil meets two mothers, Suzie and Deana, who say they have struggled with obesity until the miracle GLP-1 shot helped them to lose weight. Now they want their teens, 14 year old Jeremiah and 16 year old Demi, to do the same. Should children be on the GLP-1 drug for weight loss?  Gynecologist Dr. Jaime Seeman says absolutely not.  Plus, body positivity activist, Virgie Tovar says teens on weight loss drugs are more likely to develop an eating disorder.  Thank you to our sponsors:Dr. Phil's "Mental Health Moments" in this episode are brought to you by Michaels®, your destination for everything to create anything. Preserve Gold: Get a FREE precious metals guide that contains essential information on how to help protect your accounts. Text “DRPHIL” to 50505 to claim this exclusive offer from Preserve Gold today.  

FBI raids home of LA deputy mayor who allegedly made bomb threat against City Hall. California man told Wisconsin shooting suspect about plan to attack a government building. San Francisco has tapped author and activist Virgie Tovar, who advocates for body positivity and weight neutrality, as a consultant for its public health department.

This is the 15th episode in our incredible Body Positivity Series. This life changing series will help you see, think and feel differently about your body. Listen to all the episodes and share them with the people you love!  Support Alli Louthain in getting more of the Awesome out into the world! Share, Rate, Review or Subscribe to Monday Mindset With Isha Warriors!!And start being proactive about how you think and feel about your body today!The magic happens on the mat.Learn more about 6 Week Body Positivity Yoga Series with Isha WarriorsMaryam Faisal, a proud Muslim and Pakistani American, is currently attending Rice University in Houston Texas. Maryam's own experiences with an eating disorder as well the experiences of those that recovered with her inspired her to found the Lone Bench Initiative, a 501c3 nonprofit working to make eating disorder treatment more accessible for Muslims.Maryam hopes to bring eating disorder treatment access to even more people, while simultaneously breaking the stereotypes regarding people of color with eating disorders and eating disorders within religious communities.https://www.lonebenchinitiative.org/ Other resources Maryam recommends: For Muslim (and non-muslim, but faith-based) mental health resources, more broadly:https://khalilcenter.com/  https://naseeha.org/Body positive/Eating Disorders books:More Than a Body by Lindsay and Lexie KiteSick Enough by Dr. Jennifer GaudianiThe Self-Love Revolution: Radical Body Positivity for Girls of Color by Virgie Tovar, MAEpisode Footnotes:Problems with the current way insurances cover/don't cover eating disorder treatment. Unique challenges Muslims have with receiving treatment for disordered eating.Cultural stigmas of "who can have mental illnesses" Cultural ideology behind well intended statements that are toxic and need to change!The connection between eating disorders and suicide rates.How yoga helps you feel seen and is a reset.Check out all our other episodes in our Body Positive series!hugs,Alli Send us a textSupport the showPlease consider clicking below to make a one time donation to help "Monday Mindset With Isha Warriors" reach more people across the world!Donate Here

Author and activist Virgie Tovar is back with her own questions about sex dreams, perimenopause, and masturbating in the sun. Plus, Virgie shares how she got over her sexual hang ups. Visit the podcast feed for part one of our conversation with Virgie about dating cis men, fatphobia, and unrequited crushes.  Need sex or relationship advice? Drop Myisha an email or voice memo at sexlife@kcrw.org. We might answer your question in a future episode. Follow Myisha: @myishabattle Follow Virgie Tovar: @virgietovar For a transcript of this episode visit our website: kcrw.com/sexlife

How do I get over someone I never dated? I date cis men and fatphobia is our unwelcome third wheel.  Virgie Tovar (author, activist, and weight-based discrimination expert) gives advice in the first of this two part episode! We talk about the pain of unrequited crushes and setting boundaries as a plus-size dater. Need sex or relationship advice? Drop Myisha an email or voice memo at sexlife@kcrw.org. We might answer your question in a future episode. Follow Myisha: @myishabattle Follow Virgie Tovar: @virgietovar For a transcript of this episode visit our website: kcrw.com/sexlife 

Bradley Olson has tried a lot of different diets over his 20-year weight-loss journey, including popular programs like WeightWatchers. But nothing was as successful for him as Mounjaro, one in a new class of drugs that people are taking for weight loss.  In this episode, Brad talks about his experience on the medicine and grapples with everything the drug couldn't fix, from his self image to our food system. He confronts the ghosts of diets past and wades into the larger cultural conversation around weight loss. Guests include: Gary Foster from WeightWatchers; Virgie Tovar, a body positivity advocate; Dr. Robert Lustig, an endocrinologist.  Listen to Episodes 1 and 2 of “Trillion Dollar Shot” now.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In this episode,Virgie Tovar—author, lecturer, and leading expert on weight-based discrimination and body positivity—shares her personal journey of navigating weight-based discrimination and reclaiming her body heritage. She discusses the harmful effects of fatphobia, the intersections of body size, race, and gender, and the societal impacts of weight discrimination, such as the wage gap and access to healthcare.You can find full transcripts, links, and other information on our website.

In this Grounding Practice,  Virgie Tovar—author, lecturer, and leading expert on weight-based discrimination and body positivity—dares us to unbutton our pants, unzip our skirts, and embrace the idea of a big, wobbly belly without shame.Join our Patreon Community for bonus content from our interview with VirgieYou can find full transcripts, links, and other show information on our website.

This episode is all about fat—both eating it and being it—and some of the many ways in which fat and fatness have highly complex effects on our psyches, our well-being, and our societies in general. The visibility (and invisibility) of fat in our worlds is a starting point, followed up with conversations with critical nutrition scholar Dr. Jennifer Brady, fat activist and educator Virgie Tovar, and naturopathic health consultant Deb Oleynik. (Yep, this is a longer-than-usual episode…) David and Maxime taste some unctuous hors d'oeuvres in the aperitivo edition of the ‘Stick This in Your Mouth' segment, and medical physicist John Schreiner responds rapid-fire style to the Food Questionnaire.Guests:Dr. Jennifer Brady is a professor of nutrition and dietetics at Acadia University in Wolfville, Nova Scotia. Her research focuses on the ways in which science and society come together to produce various effects in and on our bodies, including such themes as health justice, weight-neutral approaches to practice, and the intersectionality of gender, race, and class. She has written and edited many scholarly articles and books, including Conversations in Food Studies and Feminist Food Studies. Virgie Tovar is a writer, podcaster, Instagrammer, and public speaker who has a master's degree in sexuality studies with a focus on the intersections of body size, race, and gender. For more than a decade, she has been non-judgmentally teaching people about the harmful effects of weight-based discrimination and the benefits of celebrating body diversity. Virgie has been featured by the New York Times, Tech Insider, BBC, MTV, Al Jazeera, NPR, and Yahoo Health. She lives in San Francisco.Deb Oleynik is a naturopathic health and wellness consultant who helps clients find and adjust the lifestyle factors that contribute to chronic disease. She is committed to the reality that the food we eat and the environments that surround us contribute greatly to our wellbeing. Deb has a doctorate in Naturopathic Medicine from Bastyr University and a master's degree in Food Culture and Communication from the University of Gastronomic Sciences.John Schreiner is a medical physicist who served the Canadian medical physics community in many roles including as newsletter editor for the Canadian Organization of Medical Physicists and president of as Canadian College of Physicists in Medicine. In 2019, he retired as Chief of Medical Physics at the Cancer Centre of Southeastern Ontario in 2019, and he is now Professor Emeritus of Oncology and Physics, Engineering Physics & Astronomy at Queen's University in Kingston, Ontario.Host/Producer: David Szanto Music: Story Mode@makingamealpodcast makingamealofit.com

In this episode exploring anti-fatness, Sophia Apostol opens up about her personal journey of self-acceptance and how it led questioning prevalent fat-stigmatising practices in the workplace. She discusses her experience with body image and the influence of societal beauty standards, and shares her discovery of body positivity and the authors and activists who empowered her to challenge harmful beliefs.This episode discusses grown up topics and includes swearing so caution is advised.Sophia Apostol (she/her) is a Professional Certified Coach who specializes in leadership coaching. And, she's also a fat activist who created and hosts the podcast, Fat Joy with Sophia Apostol . The intersection of anti-fat bias and workplace culture is of particular interest to her, as she's both experienced and witnessed the deep harm caused by diet culture norms when adopted by workplaces. Sophia uses the art of storytelling to share stories of marginalized identities in hopes of creating more empathy, furthering representation, and deepening belonging. Connect with Sophia on her website, and listen to her joyous liberation podcast, Fat Joy with Sophia Apostol https://www.fatjoy.life/Continue your learning journey with Aurbery Gordon (https://www.yourfatfriend.com),  Virgie Tovar https://www.virgietovar.com and Lindy West https://www.bitchmedia.org/article/lindy-west-shrill-fat-positive-representation-interviewWeekly newsletter | Ask Catherine | Work with me | LinkedIn | Instagram Big shout out to my podcast magician, Marc at iRonickMedia for making this real. Thanks for listening!

What is a Whisper Network? What can you gain from being in one, and what is expected of the network members? Not everybody is invited is into a Whisper Network—which is part of how they keep members safe. But it's also how many of the vulnerable are further left out. Today, Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson joins us to share her research on Whisper Networks, and their role in bridging the safety gap for vulnerable people. This episode explores: Why formal reporting systems fail. How whisper networks can offer safeguards. Why some people who need to be in a whisper network aren't in one. Who gets left out, and why. A discussion of the article “Whisper Networks Thrive When Women Lose Faith in Formal Systems of Reporting Sexual Harassment,” which you can access here. CW: Examples of harassment (including sexual harassment) are included throughout this episode. Our guest is: Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson, who earned a Ph.D. in Rhetoric and Professional communication from Iowa State University and received the Iowa State Research Excellence Award for her dissertation, "Whisper Networks: Sexual Harassment Protection Through Informal Networks." She earned a master's degree in American Studies and a bachelor's degree in journalism and public relations, both from Utah State University. She loves digging into difficult topics and opening doors for deeper contemplation about our lived realities. She is the Research and Outreach Coordinator for the Catt Center for Women in Politics, Iowa State University, and is on the editorial board of BONDS, where you can read more her work on whisper networks in organizations. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who holds a PhD in history. She is a freelance book editor. She has served as content director and producer of the Academic Life podcast since she launched it in 2020. The Academic Life is proud to be an academic partner of the New Books Network. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: This conversation on Who Gets Believed This conversation with Rebekah Tausig on Sitting Pretty This conversation on feminist communication strategies This conversation on Black Boy Out of Time This conversation with Virgie Tovar on The Right to Remain Fat This conversation with Jessica McCrory Calarco on The Field Guide to Grad School This conversation on structural inequality and barriers to tenure for women of color This conversation about quitting a PhD program This conversation on community-building and How We Show Up  Welcome to the Academic Life! Join us here each week to learn from experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world, and embrace the broad definition of what it truly means to live an academic life. Missed any of the 150+ Academic Life episodes? You can find them all archived here. And check back soon: we're in the studio preparing more episodes for your academic journey—and beyond! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/sociology

What is a Whisper Network? What can you gain from being in one, and what is expected of the network members? Not everybody is invited is into a Whisper Network—which is part of how they keep members safe. But it's also how many of the vulnerable are further left out. Today, Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson joins us to share her research on Whisper Networks, and their role in bridging the safety gap for vulnerable people. This episode explores: Why formal reporting systems fail. How whisper networks can offer safeguards. Why some people who need to be in a whisper network aren't in one. Who gets left out, and why. A discussion of the article “Whisper Networks Thrive When Women Lose Faith in Formal Systems of Reporting Sexual Harassment,” which you can access here. CW: Examples of harassment (including sexual harassment) are included throughout this episode. Our guest is: Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson, who earned a Ph.D. in Rhetoric and Professional communication from Iowa State University and received the Iowa State Research Excellence Award for her dissertation, "Whisper Networks: Sexual Harassment Protection Through Informal Networks." She earned a master's degree in American Studies and a bachelor's degree in journalism and public relations, both from Utah State University. She loves digging into difficult topics and opening doors for deeper contemplation about our lived realities. She is the Research and Outreach Coordinator for the Catt Center for Women in Politics, Iowa State University, and is on the editorial board of BONDS, where you can read more her work on whisper networks in organizations. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who holds a PhD in history. She is a freelance book editor. She has served as content director and producer of the Academic Life podcast since she launched it in 2020. The Academic Life is proud to be an academic partner of the New Books Network. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: This conversation on Who Gets Believed This conversation with Rebekah Tausig on Sitting Pretty This conversation on feminist communication strategies This conversation on Black Boy Out of Time This conversation with Virgie Tovar on The Right to Remain Fat This conversation with Jessica McCrory Calarco on The Field Guide to Grad School This conversation on structural inequality and barriers to tenure for women of color This conversation about quitting a PhD program This conversation on community-building and How We Show Up  Welcome to the Academic Life! Join us here each week to learn from experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world, and embrace the broad definition of what it truly means to live an academic life. Missed any of the 150+ Academic Life episodes? You can find them all archived here. And check back soon: we're in the studio preparing more episodes for your academic journey—and beyond! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

What is a Whisper Network? What can you gain from being in one, and what is expected of the network members? Not everybody is invited is into a Whisper Network—which is part of how they keep members safe. But it's also how many of the vulnerable are further left out. Today, Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson joins us to share her research on Whisper Networks, and their role in bridging the safety gap for vulnerable people. This episode explores: Why formal reporting systems fail. How whisper networks can offer safeguards. Why some people who need to be in a whisper network aren't in one. Who gets left out, and why. A discussion of the article “Whisper Networks Thrive When Women Lose Faith in Formal Systems of Reporting Sexual Harassment,” which you can access here. CW: Examples of harassment (including sexual harassment) are included throughout this episode. Our guest is: Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson, who earned a Ph.D. in Rhetoric and Professional communication from Iowa State University and received the Iowa State Research Excellence Award for her dissertation, "Whisper Networks: Sexual Harassment Protection Through Informal Networks." She earned a master's degree in American Studies and a bachelor's degree in journalism and public relations, both from Utah State University. She loves digging into difficult topics and opening doors for deeper contemplation about our lived realities. She is the Research and Outreach Coordinator for the Catt Center for Women in Politics, Iowa State University, and is on the editorial board of BONDS, where you can read more her work on whisper networks in organizations. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who holds a PhD in history. She is a freelance book editor. She has served as content director and producer of the Academic Life podcast since she launched it in 2020. The Academic Life is proud to be an academic partner of the New Books Network. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: This conversation on Who Gets Believed This conversation with Rebekah Tausig on Sitting Pretty This conversation on feminist communication strategies This conversation on Black Boy Out of Time This conversation with Virgie Tovar on The Right to Remain Fat This conversation with Jessica McCrory Calarco on The Field Guide to Grad School This conversation on structural inequality and barriers to tenure for women of color This conversation about quitting a PhD program This conversation on community-building and How We Show Up  Welcome to the Academic Life! Join us here each week to learn from experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world, and embrace the broad definition of what it truly means to live an academic life. Missed any of the 150+ Academic Life episodes? You can find them all archived here. And check back soon: we're in the studio preparing more episodes for your academic journey—and beyond! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/gender-studies

What is a Whisper Network? What can you gain from being in one, and what is expected of the network members? Not everybody is invited is into a Whisper Network—which is part of how they keep members safe. But it's also how many of the vulnerable are further left out. Today, Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson joins us to share her research on Whisper Networks, and their role in bridging the safety gap for vulnerable people. This episode explores: Why formal reporting systems fail. How whisper networks can offer safeguards. Why some people who need to be in a whisper network aren't in one. Who gets left out, and why. A discussion of the article “Whisper Networks Thrive When Women Lose Faith in Formal Systems of Reporting Sexual Harassment,” which you can access here. CW: Examples of harassment (including sexual harassment) are included throughout this episode. Our guest is: Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson, who earned a Ph.D. in Rhetoric and Professional communication from Iowa State University and received the Iowa State Research Excellence Award for her dissertation, "Whisper Networks: Sexual Harassment Protection Through Informal Networks." She earned a master's degree in American Studies and a bachelor's degree in journalism and public relations, both from Utah State University. She loves digging into difficult topics and opening doors for deeper contemplation about our lived realities. She is the Research and Outreach Coordinator for the Catt Center for Women in Politics, Iowa State University, and is on the editorial board of BONDS, where you can read more her work on whisper networks in organizations. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who holds a PhD in history. She is a freelance book editor. She has served as content director and producer of the Academic Life podcast since she launched it in 2020. The Academic Life is proud to be an academic partner of the New Books Network. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: This conversation on Who Gets Believed This conversation with Rebekah Tausig on Sitting Pretty This conversation on feminist communication strategies This conversation on Black Boy Out of Time This conversation with Virgie Tovar on The Right to Remain Fat This conversation with Jessica McCrory Calarco on The Field Guide to Grad School This conversation on structural inequality and barriers to tenure for women of color This conversation about quitting a PhD program This conversation on community-building and How We Show Up  Welcome to the Academic Life! Join us here each week to learn from experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world, and embrace the broad definition of what it truly means to live an academic life. Missed any of the 150+ Academic Life episodes? You can find them all archived here. And check back soon: we're in the studio preparing more episodes for your academic journey—and beyond! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/anthropology

What is a Whisper Network? What can you gain from being in one, and what is expected of the network members? Not everybody is invited is into a Whisper Network—which is part of how they keep members safe. But it's also how many of the vulnerable are further left out. Today, Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson joins us to share her research on Whisper Networks, and their role in bridging the safety gap for vulnerable people. This episode explores: Why formal reporting systems fail. How whisper networks can offer safeguards. Why some people who need to be in a whisper network aren't in one. Who gets left out, and why. A discussion of the article “Whisper Networks Thrive When Women Lose Faith in Formal Systems of Reporting Sexual Harassment,” which you can access here. CW: Examples of harassment (including sexual harassment) are included throughout this episode. Our guest is: Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson, who earned a Ph.D. in Rhetoric and Professional communication from Iowa State University and received the Iowa State Research Excellence Award for her dissertation, "Whisper Networks: Sexual Harassment Protection Through Informal Networks." She earned a master's degree in American Studies and a bachelor's degree in journalism and public relations, both from Utah State University. She loves digging into difficult topics and opening doors for deeper contemplation about our lived realities. She is the Research and Outreach Coordinator for the Catt Center for Women in Politics, Iowa State University, and is on the editorial board of BONDS, where you can read more her work on whisper networks in organizations. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who holds a PhD in history. She is a freelance book editor. She has served as content director and producer of the Academic Life podcast since she launched it in 2020. The Academic Life is proud to be an academic partner of the New Books Network. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: This conversation on Who Gets Believed This conversation with Rebekah Tausig on Sitting Pretty This conversation on feminist communication strategies This conversation on Black Boy Out of Time This conversation with Virgie Tovar on The Right to Remain Fat This conversation with Jessica McCrory Calarco on The Field Guide to Grad School This conversation on structural inequality and barriers to tenure for women of color This conversation about quitting a PhD program This conversation on community-building and How We Show Up  Welcome to the Academic Life! Join us here each week to learn from experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world, and embrace the broad definition of what it truly means to live an academic life. Missed any of the 150+ Academic Life episodes? You can find them all archived here. And check back soon: we're in the studio preparing more episodes for your academic journey—and beyond! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/academic-life

What is a Whisper Network? What can you gain from being in one, and what is expected of the network members? Not everybody is invited is into a Whisper Network—which is part of how they keep members safe. But it's also how many of the vulnerable are further left out. Today, Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson joins us to share her research on Whisper Networks, and their role in bridging the safety gap for vulnerable people. This episode explores: Why formal reporting systems fail. How whisper networks can offer safeguards. Why some people who need to be in a whisper network aren't in one. Who gets left out, and why. A discussion of the article “Whisper Networks Thrive When Women Lose Faith in Formal Systems of Reporting Sexual Harassment,” which you can access here. CW: Examples of harassment (including sexual harassment) are included throughout this episode. Our guest is: Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson, who earned a Ph.D. in Rhetoric and Professional communication from Iowa State University and received the Iowa State Research Excellence Award for her dissertation, "Whisper Networks: Sexual Harassment Protection Through Informal Networks." She earned a master's degree in American Studies and a bachelor's degree in journalism and public relations, both from Utah State University. She loves digging into difficult topics and opening doors for deeper contemplation about our lived realities. She is the Research and Outreach Coordinator for the Catt Center for Women in Politics, Iowa State University, and is on the editorial board of BONDS, where you can read more her work on whisper networks in organizations. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who holds a PhD in history. She is a freelance book editor. She has served as content director and producer of the Academic Life podcast since she launched it in 2020. The Academic Life is proud to be an academic partner of the New Books Network. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: This conversation on Who Gets Believed This conversation with Rebekah Tausig on Sitting Pretty This conversation on feminist communication strategies This conversation on Black Boy Out of Time This conversation with Virgie Tovar on The Right to Remain Fat This conversation with Jessica McCrory Calarco on The Field Guide to Grad School This conversation on structural inequality and barriers to tenure for women of color This conversation about quitting a PhD program This conversation on community-building and How We Show Up  Welcome to the Academic Life! Join us here each week to learn from experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world, and embrace the broad definition of what it truly means to live an academic life. Missed any of the 150+ Academic Life episodes? You can find them all archived here. And check back soon: we're in the studio preparing more episodes for your academic journey—and beyond! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/communications

What is a Whisper Network? What can you gain from being in one, and what is expected of the network members? Not everybody is invited is into a Whisper Network—which is part of how they keep members safe. But it's also how many of the vulnerable are further left out. Today, Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson joins us to share her research on Whisper Networks, and their role in bridging the safety gap for vulnerable people. This episode explores: Why formal reporting systems fail. How whisper networks can offer safeguards. Why some people who need to be in a whisper network aren't in one. Who gets left out, and why. A discussion of the article “Whisper Networks Thrive When Women Lose Faith in Formal Systems of Reporting Sexual Harassment,” which you can access here. CW: Examples of harassment (including sexual harassment) are included throughout this episode. Our guest is: Dr. Carrie Ann Johnson, who earned a Ph.D. in Rhetoric and Professional communication from Iowa State University and received the Iowa State Research Excellence Award for her dissertation, "Whisper Networks: Sexual Harassment Protection Through Informal Networks." She earned a master's degree in American Studies and a bachelor's degree in journalism and public relations, both from Utah State University. She loves digging into difficult topics and opening doors for deeper contemplation about our lived realities. She is the Research and Outreach Coordinator for the Catt Center for Women in Politics, Iowa State University, and is on the editorial board of BONDS, where you can read more her work on whisper networks in organizations. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, who holds a PhD in history. She is a freelance book editor. She has served as content director and producer of the Academic Life podcast since she launched it in 2020. The Academic Life is proud to be an academic partner of the New Books Network. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: This conversation on Who Gets Believed This conversation with Rebekah Tausig on Sitting Pretty This conversation on feminist communication strategies This conversation on Black Boy Out of Time This conversation with Virgie Tovar on The Right to Remain Fat This conversation with Jessica McCrory Calarco on The Field Guide to Grad School This conversation on structural inequality and barriers to tenure for women of color This conversation about quitting a PhD program This conversation on community-building and How We Show Up  Welcome to the Academic Life! Join us here each week to learn from experts inside and outside the academy, and around the world, and embrace the broad definition of what it truly means to live an academic life. Missed any of the 150+ Academic Life episodes? You can find them all archived here. And check back soon: we're in the studio preparing more episodes for your academic journey—and beyond! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Today, I'm speaking with Zoë Bisbing - mother of three and licensed psychotherapist at Body Positive Therapy NYC, and creator of Body Positive Home. Zoë works with families of youth struggling with eating disorders, and works to raise awareness about prevention, early detection, and immediate intervention. Zoë is also the host of The Full Bloom Podcast. Today we're talking about how to build a Body-Positive Home, and how we can build buffering skills right into the foundation of the homes and schools we nurture our children in.Find out more about Zoë's work here.Follow her work on Instagram here.Follow Laura on Instagram here.Subscribe to my newsletter here.Here's the transcript in full:Zoë Bisbing: I do think that if you're like, “Yeah, I totally want to build a body positive home, show me how”, I think you're actually embarking on some micro-activism. Because if you can commit to building a body positive home, you're going to potentially raise a body positive kid who's going to maybe then go out into the world and make the world a more body positive place.INTROLaura Thomas: Hey, and welcome to the Can I Have Another Snack? podcast where we talk about food, bodies and identity, especially through the lens of parenting. I'm Laura Thomas. I'm an anti-diet registered nutritionist, and I also write the Can I Have Another Snack? Newsletter.Today I'm talking to Zoë Bisbing. Zoë, who uses she/her pronouns, is a licensed psychotherapist, mother of three and creator of Body Positive Home, a learning and healing hub for humans who want to nurture a more embodied and inclusive next generation. Zoë directs a group therapy practice in New York City, where she and her team treat folks across the age, gender and disordered eating spectrum. A certified family based treatment practitioner, Zoë's work with families of youth struggling with eating disorders fuels her passion to raise awareness about prevention, early detection, and immediate intervention for eating disorders. Today, we're going to be talking about how to build a body positive home, and this is Zoë's idea of how we can build buffering skills right into the foundations of the homes and schools that we nurture our children in. But first, I'd love to tell you about the benefits of becoming a paid subscriber to the Can I Have Another Snack? newsletter and whole universe. And of course, there are cool perks like being able to comment on posts, our Thursday threads, Snacky Bits, and exclusive posts on intuitive eating, weight-inclusive health, and responsive feeding. But more than all of that, being reader and listener supported means that I can better control who comes into the space. In other words, we keep the trolls and the fatphobes out. And if they do sneak in, at least it's cost them and I can still boot them out. Having control over who comes into the space is essential for creating a safe nurturing space away from diet culture, where we can discuss the both and of why it's hard to have a body and how we deserve to feel safe in them, or why it's okay for your kids to eat sweets, without the food police breathing down our neck. So if you're still not convinced, here's a recent testimonial from someone in the CIHAS community: “I wish I had access to the advice and information you shared when my kids were little, but it's still valuable now they're nearly adults for a couple of reasons, at least. Firstly, having only been diagnosed as autistic in middle age, I have had a complicated relationship with food for most of my life. From childhood fussy eating through stigma over my higher body weight, and internalised fat phobia, to temporary success with dieting, followed by the inevitable return to my previous size. Your writing has helped me to cast off many of my own hang ups about food, weight and health, making me a better role model for my kids. Secondly, your advice helps me to support and advise my kids with their own food, health and body image issues and to advocate for them to my family and friends. I believe in showing my appreciation for people who provide me with help and support at least by saying thank you and, where possible, with feedback and or financially. I can't financially support everyone I'd like to all of the time, but I do what I can when I can. Thank you for all you do, Laura.”Well, thank you for that lovely review. And I guess the question is, what are you waiting for? You can sign up today at laurathomas.substack.com or find the link in your show notes. It's £5 a month or £50 for the year. And if you can't stretch that right now just email hello@laurathomasphd.co.uk with the word ‘Snacks' in the subject line and we will hook you up with a comp subscription, no questions asked and no need to explain yourself. Alright team, here's ZoëMAIN EPISODEZoë Bisbing: I am Zoe Bisbing. I'm a licensed clinical social worker and a licensed psychotherapist here in New York City. I run a group therapy practice, that's sort of, I guess my day job, a practice called Body Positive Therapy NYC. And I have a group of really wonderful clinicians that work there with me and we, we treat folks across the age and gender spectrum struggling with all kinds of disordered eating, eating disorders.And I do specialise in working with children and adolescents and their families with eating disorders, which actually is sort of how I got into my other.Laura Thomas: Your side hustle!Zoë Bisbing: My side hustle, yeah. My side hustle / baby / passion project, which is now called Body Positive Home, once was the Full Bloom Project, but it's sort of evolved into Body Positive Home.That work, I guess you could call it, I'd be curious to hear what you call it, but I think of it as advocacy, education and most importantly, prevention. It's my best attempt at disordered eating prevention, body image disturbance prevention, eating disorder prevention as far as we can, cos of course we can't entirely prevent eating disorders, but all of the work, my social media presence and speaking and all of it, it, it comes from a deep concern that I have for all of us. Laura Thomas: Just as you were speaking there, I would add activism into the mix, and this may be foreshadowing a little bit, but definitely there's, there's a thread of activism there and body politics, which I know we're gonna come back to in a minute. We're gonna get into what we need to run a body positive home in just a second. But I would love it if you could tell me…why do we need this? Like, you kind of alluded to it a little bit there, but maybe ground that in a bit more context for us.Zoë Bisbing: As a human being that lives in this world, but most importantly, as someone who's worked, uh, in a variety of treatment centres, working with people with like full blown eating disorders, I have been blown away by how eating disorder treatment, right, interventions….How we help people relearn how to essentially claim a healthier relationship with food and body. That a lot of the interventions don't look a lot like the way, like the culture we grow up in. So it's almost like, even though there is a difference between someone that struggles with disordered eating versus a full-blown eating disorder. There's a difference between having kind of body discontent versus like body dysmorphia. There's a difference. But I was struck when I started my career on like eating disorders, in inpatient treatment units, outpatient treatment programmes. How the way we treat eating disorders is to essentially help people become unafraid of eating, and not just eating, but like eating robustly, right? Like that's sort of what treatment looks like. Robust meals, multiple components at meals, multiple times a day, right? It's like the opposite of the diet messages that we get in our culture. And so I think prevention is, I think we're all, we all need recovery because we all have grown up in this very disturbed culture where I think it's fair to say our culture has a disorder of its own in terms of bodies that are valued and devalued, and foods that are bad and good in all of this that we all know, right?Laura Thomas: Yeah.Zoë Bisbing: But when you go into an eating disorder treatment centre, you start to get these, you know, these messages that you'd think would be helping us get back to where we once were. But a lot of us were never there.Laura Thomas: We never had that baseline in the first place.Zoë Bisbing: Yeah. We never had that baseline. And it's not necessarily one person's fault. Like I'm mindful that my mom is present over here. She's getting ready to go, but…Laura Thomas: Hi, Zoe's mom!Zoë Bisbing: Yeah, you got a shout out, mom. She's, she's a product of a very toxic culture. It's not her fault that she suffered at the hands of terrible messages about what women are supposed to look like or what she should eat or what she shouldn't eat. And then how does that not trickle into the next generation and, you know, and so on and so on.And so I think that prevention and making “eating disorder prevention” more accessible and more like just every day, right? I think eating disorder prevention, as you know, it's sort of siloed in like academia. There's like research that shows us…this kind of talk is helpful, this kind of language is unhelpful. This kind of feeding dynamics are helpful for prevention, but nobody is really talking about it in a way that makes it accessible and makes you feel like, oh, I could actually build a preventative environment for the kids that are either in my home or in my school. And so that's the thinking behind a body, positive home.It's really taking elements of all of these different disciplines, right? It's, it's pediatric feeding, responsive feeding, it's health at every size, or maybe more importantly, weight neutral health care. And there is a social justice piece to it, which is maybe when you, when you use the word activism, and I do think that if you are like, “yeah, I totally wanna build a body positive home, show me how” I think you are actually embarking on some micro activism. Because if you can commit to building a body positive home, you are gonna potentially raise a body positive kid who's gonna maybe then go out into the world and make the world a more body positive place. And I think we can talk about that term body positive. I actually, I liked that you wanted to go there, but that's sort of the thinking.Laura Thomas: So what Zoe's talking about here is that I, I kind of wanted to probe a little bit around why you decided, or why you landed on the term body positive. It's been a conversation lately, that sort of terminology. So yeah, in 2021, Lizzo said that the movement has been co-opted by all bodies and has become about celebrating medium and small girls and people who occasionally get rolls. And just to be clear, I don't think that that's what you're doing, Zoë, but I wondered how you get the piece around fat politics across in your work. Like where does that show up for you? Is that sort of a core value for you, as it were? You're nodding, nodding, nodding.Zoë Bisbing: I am. Well, I just loved the question because any time that I speak – and I speak a lot to parents or school professionals, kids' librarians, teens, like this type of population. And one of my first slides when I introduce what body positivity is, I always say body positivity as a movement, as a social movement, it's not created for or by people that look like me. I always say that because it wasn't, you know? I enjoy a lot of unearned privileges as like, you know, a white cis woman who…I guess I live in, probably like a mid, mid-sized body. It's not for me. I struggle a lot with it and I had a really amazing conversation about this with Da'Shaun Harrison who has said, you know, body positivity is benevolent anti fatness. I think I named the podcast episode that, and we had…I mean, it was one of my favorite conversations because I, I do think Da'Shaun was able to communicate the problem from a different perspective. I think Da'shaun's point is that so many people get left out, which is true, I think what you are bringing up and what Lizzo is saying is, it's not for all bodies and it's certainly not for, I had a four pack, now I have a two pack and a little cellulite, it's not for you. And I do think that at the core we are centering the most marginalised bodies. That's how I think about it. I think about body positivity as a value system. So if I'm body positive, it's not: I'm body positive, I accept my ass that's now fatter than it once was. Like, that's not how I think about it.Laura Thomas: That's not it.Zoë Bisbing: No, I mean if that's what you thought, I'm glad you're accepting your fatter ass now. But like, what I think about it is, I believe in my values that all bodies, including the most marginalised bodies, the fattest bodies, the most disabled bodies, whatever language feels right to you, right?That, your body is a good body and it deserves Respect, love, dignity, equity, all of these things. And that you, whoever you are, you deserve a positive regard and relationship to your body whether or not you can ever achieve that. Because I don't want people to confuse body positivity for, let's say, positive body image, which I talk a lot about the difference, but I'm aware that in using the term body positivity, I'm probably losing some people who might say, oh, there's just another white relatively thin person using this term. But I do think that my goal, and I talked to Da'Shaun about this, my goal is to bring people in who might see the term body positivity and say, yeah, I want, I want that. Laura Thomas: It's an accessible terminology. And I think what you're sort of alluding to is Trojan horsing it, where you get people in under the auspices of body positivity and then you can kind of gently bring them along with that more political aspect of this work.As much as I wish for radical fat acceptance for everyone. And that is always the goal that I have in mind. And radical acceptance for all bodies, not just fat bodies. I also acknowledge that we live in a deeply fatphobic culture and that it's gonna take time to change that narrative.And I was having a conversation recently with a couple of colleagues about how anti-fatness just feels so pervasive and more acceptable right now than it has at any other point in time. So, you know, I think that it needs all of us doing this work, whether it's kind of under the, the more gentle auspices of body positivity as well as radical fat acceptance.So I will take it, and I also think what you're, what you were saying just before this is this piece around, you know, I think what the work that you're doing is not this sort of personal project where we want our individual children to feel amazing about their bodies at all times, but to teach them the inherent worth of all bodies so that they go out into the world not replicating these systems of harm, and calling out harm when they see it.Zoë Bisbing: Totally. You said it perfectly. I mean, the reality is…I do think there is this maybe unintended consequence of a body positive boomerang, if you will. Like, if you can commit to trying to change the way you see bodies, right? See fatness, on behalf of others, right? The reality is this boomerang, it does come back to you and it does ultimately benefit your own personal body image. It does. The nuance is if it's all about you and your own body image, you know, then I don't know if it's entirely body positive, right? I don't know that it's about your role as a citizen. Right? And you know what? I also know, having sat for now years with people who just struggle so much with their own body loathing, self-loathing, that if where you are at in this journey is you just need to work on yourself and you don't have much to offer the world, you know, or, your neighbour, that's okay too.Like there has to be space for everyone. So I do like the Trojan horse idea, you know, and I wanna bring as many people in as possible, and I also want them right away to know there's a difference between body positivity and body image, and that this is about biases and, and yeah, human rights, social justice. I'm not hiding that, but yeah, I think the language is deliberate.Laura Thomas: Yeah. And I will link back to that podcast that you did with Da'Shaun Harrison, cos I think that that was a really good kind of exploration of some of the, the potential limitations of the word body positivity and kind of just unpacking that a little bit more. But I guess what I'm hearing you say is, we do this work particularly as parents in the same way that we talk about bodies from the perspective of racism or ableism. It's a social justice piece that we need to weave through our parenting on sort of all different levels. But one of the things that I really appreciate about your work, we were talking about this a little bit before we started recording, is how practical and accessible you make body positive parenting. And you talk about this concept of a body positive home. What exactly is that? And I'd love to hear what you think are the foundations or the building blocks. I'm not sure which metaphor we're using! What are some of the foundations or building blocks, and then maybe we can talk about some of those more practical tools and scripts and things that you use.Zoë Bisbing: There's a kind of theoretical way to think about building a body positive home. I think there is a way to just hold the idea in your head, right? I think you're saying what you appreciate is the practical application of it, and that's what I'm sort of obsessed with, I guess.Like how do you make these ideas really practical? And so, I do think that if you are doing your own, you know, if you're a parent and you are saying, yeah, I'm really working on expanding my definition of health and beauty and, human worth, like, in a way, if all you're doing is doing the thinking, right, and ex and maybe reading about fat positivity, reading about health at every size, like, that is one of the building blocks, right? I do think the learning and unlearning that a grownup can do, right. There are a lot of amazing books out there now. I think if you're gonna read…and I think this dovetails with building a body positive library for your home, right.Can you include Aubrey Gordon's work? Can you include Virgie Tovar's work? Can you include Da'Shaun Harrison's work for your adult consumption? Right? Like, so that becomes a building block, both in terms of your own learning and unlearning, but also the visual you start to create in your home.So a lot of advice that I've heard from people is, oh, you, you know, you need to hang fat art or have images of diverse bodies. And I do think that functionally can be hard for people, you know, to like figure out where do I get that art? And like, will that go with my couch? Or you know, so I think that, again, that can be a kind of a framework, like how do I bring images into my home?And I think parenting makes this so accessible because children's books… increasingly we see so many more opportunities to bring in…whether it's a children's book that is overtly about all bodies like Tyler Feder's Bodies Are Cool, which is like the best book I've ever read. O r Vashti Harrison's Big. There are ways to bring in…I did a Reel recently where I just found all this body positive wallpaper. Laura Thomas: Oh, I missed that. That's so cute. We need to link to that.Zoë Bisbing: You know, I'm thinking like, if you're really bold, you can bring those images on a wall in your kid's bathroom of all the diverse bodies at the beach.But something that I'm thinking of is, I don't know that, like, my husband's gonna want a bold print, so maybe I'll get a swatch and frame it and put that up. So this is where you start to see if bringing in body diversity is a complete, necessary building block of, what I like to say, scaffolding a body positive home, then you can be so creative with how you're gonna do that.And I'm just riffing, you know, a few ideas, but that's definitely a very important place to start. And then there's other rooms that we can venture into too.Laura Thomas: Okay so you are literally thinking about how you design a home that you know, that has representation of all different bodies. I guess what you're getting at is this idea of just normalising body diversity just by having it out as art and wallpaper and literally the books that you have on your shelf, like making it a part of the fabric of your home.Zoë Bisbing: Exactly. I mean, I'm thinking about a couple years ago when my daughter was maybe one and a half, I put..you know this brand Summersalt? The swimsuits. They started to do these very bold campaigns. I since have learned that, like actual fat activists were actually disappointed that the sizing wasn't inclusive enough. So I hold that, I hold that, and that catalogue came in my mail and I saw on the cover was I think…I don't remember if it was the cover or what, but there were so many different body types. It felt like the real life version of Bodies Are Cool. And I put it in her, in her play box with all of her objects because this is an example, right?If I am intentionally thinking, I want her to just, as part of her boring little walk from one end of the room to the other, for her to just have this option to pick it up and look at all the different bodies. It's almost like you start thinking and seeing everything differently and you think, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna comment on this when we read this book, or, oh, I'm gonna put that in the, the baby bin. Or, oh, look at that wallpaper. I'm totally going…got that extra bedroom or that little wall in the closet. I'm gonna put that fun wallpaper on it. And then…anyway, so this is like almost a mindset that then begets practical application.Laura Thomas: Yeah, I love that. I'm wondering if we could explore the bedroom, cos I feel like there could be a lot of stuff in there. And one thing that I'm immediately thinking of is, and I forget what you call this, so you're gonna have to remind me, but do you have like a little hack where you have a bin for clothes that no longer fit? Talk us through that. What is it that you call that?Zoë Bisbing: It's called the Not Working for My Body Anymore Bag. This is literally like if you have a bag sitting in your bag collection, like a tote bag, a Target bag, whatever. Just take it and write: “Not Working for My Body Anymore” on it. And to put this in your closet and your kids' closets. I think the label is important because you are saying it's a normal practice to notice if your clothing does not work for your body anymore, and put it in this bag because we will donate it. There are accessibility issues. Not everybody can afford to get new clothing. Not everybody can find their sizes. Like I wanna appreciate that. And also, this bag should be in everybody's closet because it sends a message both to yourself and your kid: bodies change. There's nothing wrong with that. If your clothing stops working for you, it's okay. You know where it goes.Laura Thomas: Yeah, there's a process in place to, to support you with, through that rather than ut being a point of judgment or shame or criticism, or, which is…I, I remember getting messages about when I outgrew my clothes, which – hello, I was a child's growing. Like, of course I'm gonna outgrow my clothes. But that felt wrapped up in a lot of shame, like it was my body's fault for not fitting the clothes rather than vice versa. So I, I love this, and especially with kids, you know, who at least every year, if not more often, we have to swap out sizes and, you know, just normalising that process, that bodies grow and they change. Zoë Bisbing: What this does, right, like creating a little system in place, like you said, a process, it also leaves space for, like, sensory challenges, and that's a whole other issue. A lot of toddlers just experience that, but a lot of neurodivergent folks just have sensory differences, and so it normalizes that too.And it's not just like, if I get too tall for my clothes, but also if my body becomes wider and the clothing no longer, like, buttons, that's okay. That's almost…could be a neutral noticing. And same with like, I, I can't tolerate the seam in this, like, so I think… Laura Thomas: Or the fabric, or…Zoë Bisbing: The fabric or whatever, you know. So again, whether the kid, even…like, I have one in my kids' closet, they never even put anything in there. They barely put stuff in their laundry bin, you know? But, but it's there. And so, I wanna connect one dot, especially with young children, there's an Eric Carle book called, um, A House for Hermit Crab.There's no overt message in there about all bodies being good bodies, nothing like that. But again, once you become, I think when you've trained your brain to think this way…Laura Thomas: You tune in.Zoë Bisbing: You tune in. The story begins where the hermit crab realizes, he says, “Oh! Time to move, my house is too small for me.” And so, without judgment, he steps out of his shell and he goes on a journey and he finds a bigger shell, without judgment. He just sizes up. And then he goes on his journey and he actually finds ways to make his home home, right?He finds adornments like sea anemone. He finds snails that can help him clean. To me, there's just like the reverberation. It's like, whoa. Yes. If you feel like your body's a good body, You have clothing that fits you and you're not carrying around all this like loathing and shame. You actually clean yourself. You take care of yourself. You know what I mean? It becomes much more accessible. And then at the end, he has to move again cos he needs a bigger shell without any judgment. And then he finds another hermit crab who says, “Well, I'll take that shell,” you know? And so I think that, you can even read that book to your kid and say, oh, it's just like us, just like our clothing when it doesn't fit anymore. We just need a bigger home. We need a bigger shell. You know, like to just simply make those little connections. I think that, again, that starts to feel like more of the fabric in your home.Laura Thomas: It goes both ways, doesn't it? That you can notice these themes in, you know, these body positive themes in books, books, in these, these, body accepting themes, these body liberatory themes in books. But you also see the flip side of that, right? And I think, and I know that sometimes my instinct is like, I do not want this book in my house. We need to get rid of this. I need to, like tear pages out or like... Zoë Bisbing: Burn it!Laura Thomas: Yeah! Don't get me wrong, there are books that we absolutely need to do that to. There's some horrifically fat phobic books, but there are also some books where I think we can use that as a point we can use that as a point of conversation and start to open up, yeah, a dialogue with our kids. I wonder if you could speak to that point a little bit?Zoë Bisbing: Oh, I agree. I mean, I do think there are some books that..I'm with you, like just…Laura Thomas: Like it might be one line in an otherwise fine book.Zoë Bisbing: Yeah. and I do think that right, sometimes it's okay to just skip, but I, I do think that those are teachable moments to just look at and be like, Ooh, I don't, I don't know about that. What do you think about that? Or like, why do you think they made this character…put him in this body? Like, have you ever noticed that the villain's always in a bigger body? What, what do you think about that?Laura Thomas: Yeah.Zoë Bisbing: And I say teachable moments, but I don't think we get anywhere by, like, explicitly, like, schooling our kids in this. I mean, I've tried, ooh, it does not work. But to just be like, what do you think about that?Laura Thomas: Yeah.Zoë Bisbing: Or I might say, I don't really like that. Like, do you have an opinion on that? They might not even know what you're talking about, but again, if you just keep modelling critical thinking. That's is…you're building critical thinking skills and I think that's the benefit of stumbling across fucked up shit. you know?Laura Thomas: It becomes like a, a learning opportunity or like a…not even learning opportunity, like you're saying like a, an opportunity to think critically and challenge and push back and, yeah, so that, you know, when kids go out into the wider world, they are able to use their voice and articulate when they see something that feels icky or feels uncomfortable that they can name that and that you normalise that practice.Zoë Bisbing: And that you literally modelled it, right? That you modelled what it looks like to see something that most people aren't registering, but you are. And if you are the one person in that kid's life that's registering it, maybe it's not enough, but it's better than nothing.So I've been talking about these Not Working for My Body Anymore. Bags. And I write it with a big sharpie. And recently I had a pile of clothes on the bed. And my husband said, “What are you doing with this? Is this laundry? Or is this for your Not Working for My Body Anymore Bag?And he said it like…I didn't even know that he knew, like, what I was up to with these bags. Like, cos I was just sort of putting them in closets. But I think that…you think about that moment, right, where he's very casually saying, is this laundry or is this, You're Not Working for My Body Anymore Bag.And if a kid is in earshot, he's just hearing a regular day, a parent saying to another parent, is this laundry or is this like just not working for your body anymore? Is. And that's a very potent little seed, you know? And so I just wanted to share that because I think it, it speaks to this, this process, this sort of never ending process of creating those…whatever, fabric, foundations, scaffolding.Laura Thomas: Yeah. Because I think we often talk a lot about like these big, these, like, sensationalised moments where, you know, it's your mother-in-law saying something really fatphobic, and then, oh shit, we're scrambling in our brains to come up with the perfect, like one-liner zinger to throw back at at her. But what I'm sort of taking from what you're saying is that I think that that stuff is, is important and we should talk about it, but also just having these things normalised all around us all the time. Whereas I think those conversations where, you know, if we explode at our mother-in-law, it kind of makes it, like, a big thing. At my toddler, well, preschoolers preschool, they had a presentation from the chef, and the chef was going around being like, “Oh, and now we have cake twice a week!” and was like making this big deal.And I was like, okay, but you realise what you're doing here is making cake a big fucking deal. And it's a similar sort of thing, right, where we're making these things a big fucking deal sometimes, the more we talk about it. But what I'm hearing you say is if we talk about these things just throughout the fabric of our daily lives, it just becomes part of our daily lives.Zoë Bisbing: Like you embody your values.Laura Thomas: Yes.Zoë Bisbing: That's what it is, I mean, and it's not to say that I…I've, I've totally been that parent and that mom making like a big comment about something when it really bothers me or...I think there's probably a time and a place for all of it, right?Like, I think there's like naturally occurring teachable moments. Then there are like proactive prep, you know, even when it comes to like confronting a mother-in-law. Like I think there's power in a family trying really hard to just live your values, talk about your values, so that when an outsider says something or a family member says something, your family ultimately has a sense. Like we, we do things differently. Like we, we see the injustice, we see the problem in that. I think this is very hard because everybody absorbs information differently.You know, I have three different kids with three different sensibilities. I have one kid who's clearly absorbed a lot of what I've said in a way that I noticed that like he'll spontaneously make a little art that's very overtly celebrating all bodies. And I'm like, you're my dream! This is what I had in mind.And then another kid who's like, “Shut up already! Like, call it junk food. I'm laughing at a fat joke. Leave me alone!” And I'm like, wow. Well, that might be a little bit cos I pushed too hard, you know, but, you know, I don't mean to pick on him because I think that ultimately they know that their family's values are inclusive and that doesn't mean they're, all of our kids are gonna emerge these like perfect little activists.But, but I do also hear, even with that one that's, like kind of pushing back on my overt attempts, I've also noticed the way he thinks about injustice more broadly. And so I start to say, okay, like this is a long-term project with kids.Laura Thomas: Yeah.Zoë Bisbing: And the best we can do is just keep affirming them. And I think, again, these different rooms of our homes, they have a lot of power to do that.Laura Thomas: And I also think about how confusing this must be for kids cos they're hearing a set of messages from you at home and, you know, we hope that they, that we have planted them deep down inside somewhere in that one day that's gonna blossom. Right?Zoë Bisbing: Right.Laura Thomas: And at the same time, they are getting these fatphobic messages from absolutely everywhere. These anti-fat messages. And not just anti-fatness, but all sorts of forms of prejudice are normalised in schools. And from their peers and their peers, parents, and, you know, not to like put a total downer on it, but we're asking kids to hold a really big cognitive dissonance there, and sometimes it's gonna fall down on the side that we don't want it to necessarily.But I think again, with that kind of, um, having that infrastructure at home in place, that the balance tips towards not being a jerk towards fat people.Zoë Bisbing: Yeah. No, but I think what you're…I appreciate what you're naming and I think I, I wanna, I wanna sit with that for a while because it's true. When you swim upstream as a parent, let's say you are really building a body positive home and I do think that's net positive for your kids and for the world, period. But I do think you're right that there's more…I mean, that's cognitive dissonance we want, right. We want them to have been told all food is good food so many times, and not just told it, but like seen it. Right. You know, seen the lack of moralising around food so that when they hear it and, and this has happened, that same kid who I was telling you about, my son who kind of pushes back, he came home once and he said, “This lunch monitor said salami's unhealthy. And she wouldn't let me take more.” And so yes, I did write an email about that and ended up speaking to the school because she didn't know what she was talking about. She was just thinking she was sending a helpful lesson. Of course, it's a science teacher, and science teachers are always sort of filled with misinformation about nutrition, but…Laura Thomas: It's really worrying, isn't it? Given they're the science teacher, I don't know!Zoë Bisbing: I know, I know. And it's…you know, it's the language. If every kid is only allowed to take a certain amount of salami because there has to be enough for the group, sure. But he told me, he said, “She said it wasn't healthy and I knew you wouldn't like that.” And he's right. I didn't like that.And so, I think that that's cool. You know, and Leslie, my friend, who she and I founded Full Bloom together, we talked to you, her daughter ultimately was like a little nine year old whistleblower in her school because they were weighing kids without parents consent.Laura Thomas: Oh my God. I love that.Zoë Bisbing: She told her mom, she said something didn't feel right about it. She's right and it was wrong.Laura Thomas: Yeah, they weren't getting consent!Zoë Bisbing: No, I mean, there's just no safeguards in place. But that is incredible. You know, both of these kids, like, she's talking funny about salami, they're weighing people and that doesn't feel right. Well, I'm so glad that these kids know something's up because then they can tell a grownup and the grownup can help. But I think that's powerful. You know, just those little tweaks. Right.Laura Thomas: Yeah. No, absolutely, because…i sounds like your son is, yeah. He's maybe pushing back on you, but it almost sounds like that's more to do with the fact that you're his mom and he's a kid… Zoë Bisbing: It's me!Laura Thomas: Yeah. But that, that message, even though to your face, he's still like, “Fuck you, mom.” At the same time, he's absorbing the messages and, and it's at least, at the very least, he's pausing and thinking a little bit more when he's getting those diet culture messages from the school whatever person. Give us one or two more real quick bedroom hacks.Zoë Bisbing: Okay, so when I think about the bedroom, I think about the closet. I will also say this is maybe not a hack…kind of, it's like a mindset. I think when I think about the bedroom, I think about sleep too. And one of the things that I think we completely forget about in our definition of healthy, right? It's like healthy eating is what comes to mind, but sleep is just, like, so important. And so I love Lisa Damour. She says, “Sleep is the glue that holds us together.” I think that is so true. I notice and talk about embody, like being embodied. When I am well rested, I am a different human being from when I'm not. When we use the word healthy, health with our kids, if we hear them using the word healthy, it doesn't matter what room you're in. I always like to insert, “Health is such a tricky word. Health is so tricky. Healthy's such a tricky word,” like on repeat. Because when I think about the bedroom and I think about sleep, I think about, wow, we spend so much time thinking about healthy food, unhealthy food, but we're forgetting that this is a huge part of overall wellbeing and health too. So that's one.But when I think about the bedroom and the closet, well, you tell me there's one more closet hack and then I think there's also like mirrors, cos mirrors are in closets too.Laura Thomas: Yeah, so tell us one wardrobe hack and one, mirror hack because I think they're super interesting as well.Zoë Bisbing: One of the, one of my favorite hacks, and I think this applies to people of honestly all genders, and it's a great hack to tell your teens and tweens about even if they, like, roll their eyes and they never use it. It's the hair elastic hack that is often only offered up to pregnant people.Laura Thomas: Cos they're the only people whose bodies are allowed to change! Right? Only with the caveat that it has to go back afterwards, right?Zoë Bisbing: Exactly. Exactly. That it's only suitable for the…maybe you could get away with like postpartum a couple months, but then you can't use this hack anymore. No, this hack is like…I think like menopausal people run with it. Tweens, teens, puberty. Oh my gosh. And just like general life, this is a very important hack and…if you take a hair elastic and you thread it through the button loop, like the buttonhole, and then you make a little knot and then you pull it over to connect it to the button. You've literally created an extra, I mean, it could be as much as two inches for yourself, and sometimes that's all you need to just get you through that day or just till the next moment when you can get a pair of pants that actually fit you.But again, when I, I say this is so useful to talk to teens and tweens and kids about…like, this is a hack by telling them, just put a couple in your bag. Like if ever your belly is like, oh, I can't take my pants, just like create a little space for yourself. Even if they don't use it, you're, you're telling them and yourself, it's okay. It's okay if my…and it cannot just be for pregnant people that this is okay. Like we all expand and swell and pudge and puff and like that's because we're human fucking beings. AndLaura Thomas: You have a really cool Reel, showing this hack as well, so I'll, I'll link to that because yeah, it's really helpful.Tell us about, tell us some fun mirror things that you like to do as well.Zoë Bisbing: So mirrors are tricky. I'll boil it down to a hack, but I think people know when they have, well, they don't always know, but a lot of people have a problematic relationship to the mirror,Laura Thomas: Agreed, yeah.Zoë Bisbing: Right? Like you, if you're looking at yourself a lot in the mirror, it might be a sign that you have some body image struggles going on. Like, if there's a lot of checking your body in a mirror, that is most likely maintaining negative thoughts and feelings you might be having about your body. So, you know, hacks are not therapy. A lot of people do need therapy around body image and Mirror Exposure Therapy is a type of therapy that we offer in my practice, and it's very powerful I think, for people.But I've noticed that even if you don't struggle with acute body image disturbances, like, if you're like, yeah, I just wanna get better at even just tolerating, looking at myself in the mirror…With kids…look, mirrors with kids, especially like babies. I love mirrors and babies, I mean like learning about the sense, you know, that you're a person. Being able to see and study in the mirror. There's so many like psychological benefits that come from looking in mirrors. And then of course at a certain point, like, people get really fucked up about mirrors. So like what happens? Right? But building descriptive language skills for kids, helps them with their emerging body image and also food acceptance skills, which I know you know that, like…but being able to look in the mirror in a playful way with your kid, whether it's like you're brushing your teeth or you know, you're getting changed and just sort of spontaneously say like, let's look for a specific shape. Like, can you find a triangle? Can you find a semicircle, can you find a lump, like something lumpy? Can you find something squishy? Like you can do this in so many different ways, but to really focus on descriptive language, form, colour, shape…Laura Thomas: Mm. Texture.Zoë Bisbing: Texture. Yeah. Because this is not the same thing as scrutinising your body. But to be able to look at your body – and this is a playful version to do almost preventatively with kids, but what this ultimately translates to as an adult is being able to look at, especially parts of your body that you really struggle with and use hopefully this language that you've been building because you're practicing with your kid to be able to notice the shapes and the line, the form, the function. This is the whole idea of like body neutralising, right? Being able to see what's actually there, not sort of what your mind interprets is there. But even if all your kid finds is the nose, oh, I found a triangle.Well, that's right. This is sort of a triangle. It's like a triangle. Oh. It has a little, like a little slope or a bump. Like words that are not even nose or ear, because I think that it helps this other part of the brain be able to look in a different way.Laura Thomas: Yeah, and I think…you know, I'm just thinking about bellies and roundness and, and just like the fullness of bellies and, and being able to name that in a neutral, non-judgemental way with our toddlers and our preschoolers and our younger kids like…how protective that could be if they bring that with them all the way through.Oh, I feel like we could be talking about hacks all over the place. And maybe we need to get you back for part two so we can explore some of these, these other rooms. But…we end every conversation with my guests and I sharing their snack. So this is basically anything that you've been loving lately. It can be a book or a podcast, a show, a literal snack, anything you want. So Zoë, what have you been snacking on lately?Zoë Bisbing: I don't know what it says about me, but the two things that are coming to mind, one is a show and one is an actual snack.Laura Thomas: Go on. Go for it. Let's have them both.Zoë Bisbing: The show is Chicago Med.Laura Thomas: Oh, is this like a ER situation?Zoë Bisbing: I think it's an ER situation and I can't even tell you why. I think I just love the actor Oliver Platt so much. He plays this like avuncular psychiatrist and…I can't even say I recommend the show and it was probably not worthwhile that I shared it, but I will say as, like, a very busy working parent. I am really relishing the laying on the couch watching this show and just sort of losing myself into the, like, drama of the doctors and, and all the different medical diagnoses and like there's a psychiatrist that always comes in and there's always some kind of psychiatric episode and I just like really enjoying that as like a pleasure.Laura Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. That sounds…like I was gonna say like a guilty pleasure, but that's not what I mean…Zoë Bisbing: I almost said it too!Laura Thomas: It's your like…Zoë Bisbing: It's like my, it's my play food.Laura Thomas: Yeah! Zoë Bisbing: It's interesting cos I think about that if I…the snack that I'm really enjoying right now, it's like, it does, it has a similar feeling. It's like, it's just really satisfying and comforting. I've recently discovered Chobani yoghurt, like Chobani is a yoghurt.Laura Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. I know that brand. Mm-hmm.Zoë Bisbing: With granola, peanuts and honey.Laura Thomas: Peanuts are so underrated, man. Zoë Bisbing: Peanuts and yoghurt! I mean, it was like a very random choice, but there's something about like the crunch, like the scratch, like there's something texturally going on there with the like, honey sweetness and the tartness of the yogurt. So that and Chicago Med is like how I'm closing my days and it's really restorative.Laura Thomas: That sounds so good. Okay, so just to bring this episode like full circle to some of what we were talking about before…my snack, my thing that I'm very excited about is that, since starting preschool, my three-year-old is not napping. And is going to bed at eight o'clock at night, like consistently for a week, which has literally never happened in three whole years.Zoë Bisbing: So you have a whole evening now.Laura Thomas: Yeah, it feels like I have an eternity. Like he was going to bed at like 10, 11 o'clock every night because his previous childcare was letting him sleep way too long during the dayZoë Bisbing: Oh gosh.Laura Thomas: And it was a whole thing. I am enjoying having some rest and recuperation. And what is so interesting to me is that he was sleeping like 70 minutes during the day and then getting, I don't know, like eight hours at night, maybe a little bit less, but now he's getting more overall sleep than that broken sleep during the day. And it is just..it makes me really angry that our last childcare provider was not listening to us when we were asked to cut the nap. But I will just add this caveat for anyone who's like, oh my God, my kid is not sleeping. Um, he does still wake up. Once a night. So, but I can take it cuz he falls back to sleep and it's fine. But yeah, it like the fact that we have an evening now is revolutionary. All right, Zoe, can you let everybody know where they can find out more about you and your work?Zoë Bisbing: Well, you can head to my new website. www.bodypositivehome.com. And my Instagram. That's where the action is right now. That's @MyBodyPositiveHome.Laura Thomas: I will link to both of those in the show notes so everyone could come and find you and follow your work. And thank you so much for coming on. It was so fun to talk to you.Zoë Bisbing: Same.OUTROLaura Thomas: Thanks so much for listening to the Can I Have Another Snack? podcast. You can support the show by subscribing in your podcast player and leaving a rating and review. And if you want to support the show further and get full access to the Can I Have Another Snack? universe, you can become a paid subscriber.It's just £5 a month or £50 for the year. As well as getting tons of cool perks you help make this work sustainable and we couldn't do it without the support of paying subscribers. Head to laurathomas.substack.com to learn more and sign up today.  Can I Have Another Snack? is hosted by me, Laura Thomas. Our sound engineer is Lucy Dearlove. Fiona Bray formats and schedules all of our posts and makes sure that they're out on time every week. Our funky artwork is by Caitlin Preyser, and the music is by Jason Barkhouse. Thanks so much for listening. ICYMI this week: What (Gentle) TV Are You Watching?* The Truth About Ultra Processed Foods - Part 1* Here's Why You Might Want to Pass On Getting Your Kid Weighed in School* How do you stop diet talk around your kids? This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit laurathomas.substack.com/subscribe

Why are students encouraged to move far from home and family, to attend “the best school”? Why aren't the emotional and physical costs of this disclosed to students and their families? Dr. Jorge Juan Rodríguez joins us to talk about his article, “Lessons From My Working Class Parents,” and the graduate school sacrifices he wouldn't make. This episode explores: The personal costs first gen students make when they leave family behind. How lived experience can influence your field of study. Why stories from his parents led to his dissertation topic. What led him to prioritize his family and his home life in graduate school. Lessons from his parents. Our guest is: Dr. Jorge Juan Rodriguez, who is the son of two Puerto Rican migrants. He grew up in an affordable housing community outside of Hartford, Connecticut. His lived experiences in that community influenced his academic work, leading him to degrees in biblical studies, liberation theologies, and a Ph.D. in history where he specialized in the intersections of religion and social movements. While engaging public scholarship and teaching courses in U.S. Religious History, Latinx Religious Activism, and 20th Century Social Movements, Dr. Rodríguez also serves as the Associate Director for Strategic Programming at the Hispanic Summer Program. He consults with institutions of higher education across the country on matters of policy development, grant systems, curricular reviews, social media management, and internal operations. In all that he does, he invites people to critically assess the histories that shape them, the communities that ground them, the challenges of our current systems, and the possibilities of dreaming new systems into existence. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, a historian of women and gender. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: How We Show Up: Reclaiming Family, Friendship and Community, by Mia Birdsong How to Human: An Incomplete Manual for Living in a Messed-Up World, by Alice Connor Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself, by Nedra Glover Tawwab Dr. Jorge Juan Rodriguez's blog post entitled Careerism and the Lessons of My Working-Class Parents The Academic Life podcast on community-building and How We Show Up, with Mia Birdsong The Academic Life episode on the Field Guide to Grad School The Academic Life episode with Virgie Tovar on body acceptance and ending fatphobia The Academic Life episode on barriers to tenure for women of color The Academic Life podcast on the benefits of living a "good-enough" life The Academic Life podcast on belonging and the science of creating connection and bridging divides Welcome to The Academic Life! On the Academic Life channel we are inspired and informed by today's knowledge-producers, working inside and outside the academy. Find us on Twitter: @AcademicLifeNBN. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/latino-studies

Why are students encouraged to move far from home and family, to attend “the best school”? Why aren't the emotional and physical costs of this disclosed to students and their families? Dr. Jorge Juan Rodríguez joins us to talk about his article, “Lessons From My Working Class Parents,” and the graduate school sacrifices he wouldn't make. This episode explores: The personal costs first gen students make when they leave family behind. How lived experience can influence your field of study. Why stories from his parents led to his dissertation topic. What led him to prioritize his family and his home life in graduate school. Lessons from his parents. Our guest is: Dr. Jorge Juan Rodriguez, who is the son of two Puerto Rican migrants. He grew up in an affordable housing community outside of Hartford, Connecticut. His lived experiences in that community influenced his academic work, leading him to degrees in biblical studies, liberation theologies, and a Ph.D. in history where he specialized in the intersections of religion and social movements. While engaging public scholarship and teaching courses in U.S. Religious History, Latinx Religious Activism, and 20th Century Social Movements, Dr. Rodríguez also serves as the Associate Director for Strategic Programming at the Hispanic Summer Program. He consults with institutions of higher education across the country on matters of policy development, grant systems, curricular reviews, social media management, and internal operations. In all that he does, he invites people to critically assess the histories that shape them, the communities that ground them, the challenges of our current systems, and the possibilities of dreaming new systems into existence. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, a historian of women and gender. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: How We Show Up: Reclaiming Family, Friendship and Community, by Mia Birdsong How to Human: An Incomplete Manual for Living in a Messed-Up World, by Alice Connor Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself, by Nedra Glover Tawwab Dr. Jorge Juan Rodriguez's blog post entitled Careerism and the Lessons of My Working-Class Parents The Academic Life podcast on community-building and How We Show Up, with Mia Birdsong The Academic Life episode on the Field Guide to Grad School The Academic Life episode with Virgie Tovar on body acceptance and ending fatphobia The Academic Life episode on barriers to tenure for women of color The Academic Life podcast on the benefits of living a "good-enough" life The Academic Life podcast on belonging and the science of creating connection and bridging divides Welcome to The Academic Life! On the Academic Life channel we are inspired and informed by today's knowledge-producers, working inside and outside the academy. Find us on Twitter: @AcademicLifeNBN. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Why are students encouraged to move far from home and family, to attend “the best school”? Why aren't the emotional and physical costs of this disclosed to students and their families? Dr. Jorge Juan Rodríguez joins us to talk about his article, “Lessons From My Working Class Parents,” and the graduate school sacrifices he wouldn't make. This episode explores: The personal costs first gen students make when they leave family behind. How lived experience can influence your field of study. Why stories from his parents led to his dissertation topic. What led him to prioritize his family and his home life in graduate school. Lessons from his parents. Our guest is: Dr. Jorge Juan Rodriguez, who is the son of two Puerto Rican migrants. He grew up in an affordable housing community outside of Hartford, Connecticut. His lived experiences in that community influenced his academic work, leading him to degrees in biblical studies, liberation theologies, and a Ph.D. in history where he specialized in the intersections of religion and social movements. While engaging public scholarship and teaching courses in U.S. Religious History, Latinx Religious Activism, and 20th Century Social Movements, Dr. Rodríguez also serves as the Associate Director for Strategic Programming at the Hispanic Summer Program. He consults with institutions of higher education across the country on matters of policy development, grant systems, curricular reviews, social media management, and internal operations. In all that he does, he invites people to critically assess the histories that shape them, the communities that ground them, the challenges of our current systems, and the possibilities of dreaming new systems into existence. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, a historian of women and gender. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: How We Show Up: Reclaiming Family, Friendship and Community, by Mia Birdsong How to Human: An Incomplete Manual for Living in a Messed-Up World, by Alice Connor Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself, by Nedra Glover Tawwab Dr. Jorge Juan Rodriguez's blog post entitled Careerism and the Lessons of My Working-Class Parents The Academic Life podcast on community-building and How We Show Up, with Mia Birdsong The Academic Life episode on the Field Guide to Grad School The Academic Life episode with Virgie Tovar on body acceptance and ending fatphobia The Academic Life episode on barriers to tenure for women of color The Academic Life podcast on the benefits of living a "good-enough" life The Academic Life podcast on belonging and the science of creating connection and bridging divides Welcome to The Academic Life! On the Academic Life channel we are inspired and informed by today's knowledge-producers, working inside and outside the academy. Find us on Twitter: @AcademicLifeNBN. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/academic-life

Why are students encouraged to move far from home and family, to attend “the best school”? Why aren't the emotional and physical costs of this disclosed to students and their families? Dr. Jorge Juan Rodríguez joins us to talk about his article, “Lessons From My Working Class Parents,” and the graduate school sacrifices he wouldn't make. This episode explores: The personal costs first gen students make when they leave family behind. How lived experience can influence your field of study. Why stories from his parents led to his dissertation topic. What led him to prioritize his family and his home life in graduate school. Lessons from his parents. Our guest is: Dr. Jorge Juan Rodriguez, who is the son of two Puerto Rican migrants. He grew up in an affordable housing community outside of Hartford, Connecticut. His lived experiences in that community influenced his academic work, leading him to degrees in biblical studies, liberation theologies, and a Ph.D. in history where he specialized in the intersections of religion and social movements. While engaging public scholarship and teaching courses in U.S. Religious History, Latinx Religious Activism, and 20th Century Social Movements, Dr. Rodríguez also serves as the Associate Director for Strategic Programming at the Hispanic Summer Program. He consults with institutions of higher education across the country on matters of policy development, grant systems, curricular reviews, social media management, and internal operations. In all that he does, he invites people to critically assess the histories that shape them, the communities that ground them, the challenges of our current systems, and the possibilities of dreaming new systems into existence. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, a historian of women and gender. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: How We Show Up: Reclaiming Family, Friendship and Community, by Mia Birdsong How to Human: An Incomplete Manual for Living in a Messed-Up World, by Alice Connor Set Boundaries, Find Peace: A Guide to Reclaiming Yourself, by Nedra Glover Tawwab Dr. Jorge Juan Rodriguez's blog post entitled Careerism and the Lessons of My Working-Class Parents The Academic Life podcast on community-building and How We Show Up, with Mia Birdsong The Academic Life episode on the Field Guide to Grad School The Academic Life episode with Virgie Tovar on body acceptance and ending fatphobia The Academic Life episode on barriers to tenure for women of color The Academic Life podcast on the benefits of living a "good-enough" life The Academic Life podcast on belonging and the science of creating connection and bridging divides Welcome to The Academic Life! On the Academic Life channel we are inspired and informed by today's knowledge-producers, working inside and outside the academy. Find us on Twitter: @AcademicLifeNBN. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

From grey hair, to saggy bits and everything in between! There's no denying our bodies change as they age and our relationship does with them as well.So how do women in their 40's and beyond feel about their bodies? And faces? And hair? Today we're speaking to Tracey Spicer and Virgie Tovar about all the things you're not supposed to say about ageing bodies. The 456 Club is proudly made in partnership with Priceline Pharmacy. SPECIAL THANKS TO OUR GUESTS: Tracey Spicer, author of Man-Made: How the bias of the past is being built into the future.Virigie Tovar, author, lecturer, and leading expert on weight-based discrimination and body positivity.Sarah Laidlaw, Priceline Pharmacy Makeup Director. CREDITSHosts: Narelda Jacobs & Cathrine MahoneyExecutive Producer: Talissa BazazAudio Producer: Madeline Joannou HAVE YOUR SAY: We know that everybody's experience in their 40s 50s and 60s looks and feels different, so we want to hear from you! Click this link, and complete a short survey and to thank you for your time, you could win a $50 voucher. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

How can someone in a larger body find the courage to seek recovery when so much of the world and the medical field overlooks their experience, and treats their size like it's a problem?This was a question Rachel, a listener from our community, wrote in to be answered on Equipped to Recover. In our mission to help you learn from the best, we connected with Virgie Tovar. She's a popular author, activist, and influential voice in the fight against weight-based discrimination and body image issues. As a larger-bodied person of color, Virgie brings a wealth of knowledge and empathy to her work, and her tireless efforts have led to significant improvements in health outcomes for many individuals.Take a listen to learn the tips she shared to tackle weight stigma in eating disorder treatment and recovery.SHOW NOTES - How to Handle Weight Stigma in Eating Disorder TreatmentCONNECT WITH VIRGIE TOVAR Instagram Website Books Forbes CONNECT WITH EQUIP Equip's Website Equip's Instagram CONNECT WITH RECOVERY WARRIORS

Just when Virgie Tovar thought she had conquered her disordered eating and embraced body positivity, she discovered a powerful lesson in solidarity that she never expected. Virgie is an inspiring writer, activist, and influential voice in the fight against weight-based discrimination and body image issues. Creator of the popular hashtag, #LoseHateNotWeight, and author of the groundbreaking book "You Have the Right to Remain Fat," Virgie has been instrumental in raising awareness for body positivity and inclusivity. Virgie's personal journey as a large-bodied person of color in eating disorder recovery offers a unique and invaluable perspective, as she works tirelessly to promote the idea that weight discrimination is a human rights issue. Virgie has overcome her own struggles with disordered eating and developed a strong advocacy for fat acceptance, empowering others to do the same.In this episode, we dive deep into Virgie's journey and how a sense of solidarity and community helped her transform her life and recovery. SHOW NOTES - VIRGIE TOVAR'S UNAPOLOGETIC APPROACH TO BODY POSITIVITY & COMMUNITY IN RECOVERYCONNECT WITH VIRGIE TOVAR Instagram Website Books Forbes CONNECT WITH EQUIP Equip's Website Equip's Instagram CONNECT WITH RECOVERY WARRIORS

On this week's show:Happy Babe Ruth dayNo No NanetteTed WilliamsFake Babe Ruth nicknamesYou need an organ? Vermont has your back - or kidney, or whateverPhil Scott is the most popular governorVT to ban “no-rehire” clauses in discrimination suitsBad news for child bridesBeta Tech considering buying Airport Burlington neighborhood doesn't love the homeless podsGov. Scott wants to put homeless in mobile parksUpdate: 5 charged in deadly brawl Update: Libraries are back in Vermont State University The Master Gardner Helpline is back to rescue all you Black Thumbers(59:30) Break music: Project Jelinora - “Yes. You.”https://projectjelinora.bandcamp.com/track/yes-you Montpelier to become Poem City Local coffee champEssex PE champ Few survive the Rasputitsa What do we make of Virgie Tovar? Don't climb the Moran FRAMEFamed VT photographer dies  Do you want that Ben & Jerry's weed?(1:36:37) Break music:  Quasar Valley Band - “Off the Ground”https://patrickjcrowley.bandcamp.com/track/off-the-ground Scumbag Map Shooter arrested in Morrisville  Rutland couple keeps on firing on fleeing intrudersScumbag teacher in ChesterThis dude can't stop crimingNaked at the Cumby Farms Turkey hunting tips Are our parrots too lonely? Gator eats 88-year-old; family sues Narcan works on dogs Meet the world's shortest dogThanks for listening!Follow us on Facebook: facebook.com/VermontCatchup Follow Matt on twitter: @MatthewBorden4 Contact the show: 24theroadshow@gmail.comIntro/Outro Music by B-Complex

Virgie Tovar (she/her) is a well-known body positive and fat liberation activist. In this episode, she candidly shares her journey to activism from her traumatic and abusive childhood (that led her to go ‘no contact' with her family 5 years ago), to a boyfriend in her 20s who loved her exactly as she was, to her rebellious and loud activism, to now. As with all things Virgie, her storytelling, authenticity, and boldness are pure joy.Virgie Tovar is an author, lecturer, and leading expert on weight-based discrimination and body positivity. She is a contributor for Forbes where she covers the plus-size market and how to end weight discrimination at work. She started the hashtag campaign #LoseHateNotWeight in 2013 and in 2018 gave a TedX talk on the origins of the campaign.Tovar edited the anthology Hot & Heavy: Fierce Fat Girls on Life, Love and Fashion and she's the author of You Have the Right to Remain Fat, The Self-Love Revolution: Radical Body Positivity for Girls of Color and her new interactive book, The Body Positive Journal. Her Webby-nominated podcast, Rebel Eaters Club, is now in Season 3. Mentions in this episode: NAAFA, Flare Project, ED Parenting podcast, Moonology book, artist Gina Contreras.Please connect with Virgie on her website, Instagram, Forbes, and her newest book.This episode's poem is called “Let Me Begin Again” by Major Jackson.Hello lovely, Sophia here! Virgie Tovar is ah-mazing! And, there's bonus content for you through Apple Subscriptions or Patreon. Producing a weekly podcast takes time and resources from several wonderful people, and paid subscriptions will make continuing our work possible. My dearest wish is to also offer an honorarium to my guests, centering and supporting marginalized voices in this space. So, as you're able, please consider subscribing to “Some Extra Fat Joy: 10 Qs” where each guest answers 10 unexpected questions. Want to know what Virgie's biggest dream is?Please connect with Fat Joy on our website, Instagram, and YouTube (full video episodes here!). And please also give us a rating & subscribe.Our thanks to AR Media and Emily MacInnis for keeping this podcast looking and sounding joyful.

This week, Karin welcomes Virgie Tovar, author, lecturer, and leading expert on weight-based discrimination and body positivity, to the show for, ”You Have the Right to Remain Fat.”Tune in for a discussion on fat discrimination and oppression from diet culture, dissecting the meaning of fat phobia, weight discrimination facts, the ways body size shapes gender roles and stigma, self-hatred as a barrier to finding self-love, recovering from fat phobia in a culture steeped in stigma, behind-the-scenes of her 2018 TedX talk, and more!Virgie Tovar is an author, lecturer, and leading expert on weight-based discrimination and body positivity. She holds a Master's degree in Sexuality Studies with a focus on the intersections of body size, race and gender. She is a contributor for Forbes where she covers the plus-size market and how to end weight discrimination at work. In 2018, she gave a TedX talk on the origins of her #LoseHateNotWeight campaign.Virgie is the author of "You Have the Right to Remain Fat", "The Self-Love Revolution: Radical Body Positivity for Girls of Color", "The Body Positive Journal", and host of "Rebel Eaters Club". Begin your healing journey with Karin and her team now!

https://302.buzz/PM-WhatAreYourThoughtsWhen you hear Dr. Joey Skelton speak about his patients, it's clear how deep his commitment runs. He looks beyond the numbers as he believes that each patient deserves to be treated like an individual being. Today's discussion is on childhood obesity. But don't make the mistake of rolling your eyes and thinking “oh, yeah… it's a problem” .... This is a different kind of discussion with a different kind of doctor. You'll hear some things in this episode that you've never heard before. Dr. Gaggino asks some difficult questions and Dr. Skelton teaches us about another way to look at kids and obesity. [00:33 -19:54] Opening SegmentDr. Skelton quit his gastroenterologist practice to focus on obesity research and education.He believes that understanding the entire family is important in addressing obesity and wants to dive deeper into research in this area. His program is set up so that families can start when they are ready, and it takes into consideration that they may have a lot of other stressors in their lives.Number one referral he makes is to a counselor for issues around anxiety or depression, and number two referral is to a mental health resource for parents who may be struggling with similar issues.Our bodies are naturally inclined to gain weight as a means of preparing for potential famines or wars.[19:55 - 35:37] A New Way of Looking at Obesity. Recognizing the complexity of factors that can impact behavior change, such as access to food, work schedules, and lack of cooking skills.Addressing obesity can be difficult when a parent is already overwhelmed with other stresses in their life.Restricting or limiting portion sizes and encouraging certain foods can lead to negative outcomes, such as increased weight gain and conflicts over food. BMI is a screening tool and should not be used as a definitive diagnostic tool for obesity.Keeping the focus on the person, and behaviors related to preventing diabetes rather than just focusing on weight loss can be more effective.[35:38 -46:07] HAES (Health at Every Size) fights against Preconceived NotionsListening to podcasts and reading stories from writers in the movement can be emotional and eye-opening.Writers such as Virgie Tovar and Aubrey Gordon share their personal experiences of how their weight affected their interactions with friends, the healthcare industry, and society as a whole.It's important for healthcare providers to approach patients with a weight-neutral mindset, focusing on overall health rather than weight.Creating a safe and non-judgmental environment for patients is crucial in weight-inclusive care.Advocate for recognizing that people can be in larger bodies and still be healthy.[46:08 - 53:37] Dr. Skelton's recommendationsScreening labs should begin around age 10, taking into account risk factors such as family history and physical findings.Look for opportunities to address issues of weight and health in a size-acceptance spirit.A mindset shift is required to recognize that health behaviors are often influenced by social drivers and the environment. The need for education, support, and understanding for patients, rather than using tests to scare families.[53:38 - 59:24] Closing segment Takeaway.Don't forget to sign up for Dr. Gaggino's February 24th Beta Training for

Why are women judged for their size? What if you decided that you had the right to remain fat? This episode explores: Our born desire to like ourselves as we are. How we get shamed out of that at such a young age, and so very quickly. How hard it is to re-learn how to like yourself. Why our cultural commitment to fat-phobia harms us all. A Discussion of the book You Have the Right To Remain Fat. Our guest is: Virgie Tovar, who is an author, activist, and a lecturer on weight-based discrimination and body image. She holds a Master's degree in Sexuality Studies with a focus on the intersections of body size, race and gender. She edited the anthology Hot & Heavy: Fierce Fat Girls on Life, Love and Fashion (Seal Press, November 2012), is the author of You Have the Right to Remain Fat (Feminist Press August 2018), The Self-Love Revolution: Radical Body Positivity for Girls of Color (New Harbinger Publications 2020), and The Body Positive Journal (Chronicle Books 2022). She has received three San Francisco Arts Commission Individual Artist Commissions as well as Yale's Poynter Fellowship in Journalism. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, a historian of women and gender. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: Fatty Fatty Boom Boom, by Rabia Chaudry What We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Fat, by Aubrey Gordon Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness, by Da'Shaun L. Harrison Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia, by Sabrina Strings The Body is Not An Apology, Second Edition, by Sonya Renee Taylor Welcome to The Academic Life! On the Academic Life channel we embrace a broad definition of what it means to lead an academic life. We view education as a transformative human endeavor and are inspired by today's knowledge-producers working inside and outside the academy. Find us on Twitter: @AcademicLifeNBN. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/new-books-network

Why are women judged for their size? What if you decided that you had the right to remain fat? This episode explores: Our born desire to like ourselves as we are. How we get shamed out of that at such a young age, and so very quickly. How hard it is to re-learn how to like yourself. Why our cultural commitment to fat-phobia harms us all. A Discussion of the book You Have the Right To Remain Fat. Our guest is: Virgie Tovar, who is an author, activist, and a lecturer on weight-based discrimination and body image. She holds a Master's degree in Sexuality Studies with a focus on the intersections of body size, race and gender. She edited the anthology Hot & Heavy: Fierce Fat Girls on Life, Love and Fashion (Seal Press, November 2012), is the author of You Have the Right to Remain Fat (Feminist Press August 2018), The Self-Love Revolution: Radical Body Positivity for Girls of Color (New Harbinger Publications 2020), and The Body Positive Journal (Chronicle Books 2022). She has received three San Francisco Arts Commission Individual Artist Commissions as well as Yale's Poynter Fellowship in Journalism. Our host is: Dr. Christina Gessler, a historian of women and gender. Listeners to this episode may also be interested in: Fatty Fatty Boom Boom, by Rabia Chaudry What We Don't Talk About When We Talk About Fat, by Aubrey Gordon Belly of the Beast: The Politics of Anti-Fatness, by Da'Shaun L. Harrison Fearing the Black Body: The Racial Origins of Fat Phobia, by Sabrina Strings The Body is Not An Apology, Second Edition, by Sonya Renee Taylor Welcome to The Academic Life! On the Academic Life channel we embrace a broad definition of what it means to lead an academic life. We view education as a transformative human endeavor and are inspired by today's knowledge-producers working inside and outside the academy. Find us on Twitter: @AcademicLifeNBN. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices Support our show by becoming a premium member! https://newbooksnetwork.supportingcast.fm/academic-life

Vicky Bellman (she/her/hers) embodies the thing that most of her clients are scared of- being fat. Her work with people across the weight spectrum calls into question all aspects of therapeutic support and how we talk about living and eating within diet culture. Also, Sophia becomes a Fat Elder.Vicky is a therapist working in online private practice at Concentric Counselling - she's based in the UK with clients worldwide. She has particular areas of experience in trauma, and in working with disordered eating and eating disorders from a non diet, fat positive perspective. As a fat woman, many of her clients appreciate her lived experience of navigating the world in a bigger body. Joyful in her own fat identity, Vicky is passionate about supporting clients to embody this liberation, and create a more sustainable, fulfilling and affirming life. Vicky also works as a consultant with fellow therapists and healing pros who want to re-energise their practice or incorporate fat positivity into their practice.You can find Vicky on Instagram and her website. Vicky has a weekly newsletter, Fat Bubble, which is a space dedicated to fat affirmation, fat joy and fat delight.Here are the links to Jes Baker and Virgie Tovar.Sophia reads When the Fat Girl Gets Skinny by Blythe Baird.All things Fat Joy can be found here…Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fatjoy.life/YouTube: https://youtube.com/@fatjoyTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@fatjoypodcastFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/fatjoypodcast/Website: http://www.fatjoy.lifePatreon: http://patreon.com/fatjoyAnd if you're a Patreon supporter, be sure to go watch Some Extra Fat Joy: 10 Q's with Vicky Bellman. If you'd like this bonus content each week, for as little as $2 per month you can become a Patreon member. You'll be enabling us to offer an honorarium to the podcast's expert guests, which is key to supporting & centering marginalized voices.Deep thanks for their hard work go to Hi Bird Designs and AR Media for keeping this podcast looking and sounding joyful.

CIHAS pod is on a season break until the new year. But I promised you some fun bonus pods in the meantime, so here goes. Some juicy, unreleased content right here! Can I Have Another Snack? is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.This week, we're jumping back to my conversation with the fabulous Virgie Tovar from episode 8 (if you haven't listened to that ‘sode yet, now's your chance). This snippet didn't appear in the OG episode, but Virgie shares some really helpful tips on her approach to how to respond to a kid who asks ‘am I fat?'. Virgie sets out seven steps you can take to help you handle this question in an age-appropriate way, and considers things like what if you don't feel OK about your body, and how you can help the kiddo if they are being bullied about their weight. Spoiler - I might have convinced Virgie to join the ‘Stack. And she might have agreed to write a very cool, fat Christmas love story to share on CIHAS in December

Alright folks, here it is! The final episode of Season 1 of the Can I Have Another Snack? podcast (keep an eye out for Season 2 in the new year!) - and we're ending with a bang! This week I'm chatting to Katie Greenall, theatre maker, writer, and performer of the award-winning autobiographical solo show ‘Fatty Fat Fat'. We speak all about Embodiment and disconnection from our body, and discuss how we can handle a funky body image day. They also give us the inside scoop on their upcoming show ‘Blubber'.Find out more about Katie here.Follow her work on Instagram here.Follow Laura on Instagram here.Here's the transcript in full:Katie: I've had like lots of us have, or on the, on the road to having, I hope, this sort of glass-shattering moment where you are like, Oh, I can live in my body, in my case, in my fat, queer body and be happy. Those things can coexist. I do not have to change the other thing in order to be happy. And I mean, happy in the fullest of sense. I mean, successful in whatever successful looks like, loved, cared for, fed, cherished, admired, like whatever that looks like. And, and that can change. And for the first sort of two decades of my life, I did not realise that I could be fat and any of those things.INTRO:Laura: Hey, and welcome to the Can I Have Another Snack podcast where I'm asking my guests who or what they're nourishing right now and who or what is nourishing them. I'm Laura Thomas, an anti-diet registered nutritionist, and author of the Can I Have Another Snack? newsletter.Today I'm sharing the last episode of Season One of the Can I Have Another Snack? podcast. I'll be back in January with ten brand-new episodes with some incredible guests. And in the meantime you can follow along on the Can I Have Another Snack? Substack where I'm gonna be sharing some really cool features over the holiday period including my emo kid Christmas playlist, an anti-diet gift guide, and some guest holiday pieces from Kristen Scher and Virgie Tovar. You're not going to want to miss them, they're seriously great and I can't wait to share them with you. So make sure that you're signed up to receive those posts at laurathomas.substack.comAlright team, I am so pumped to introduce you to today's guest. Katie Greenall is someone whose work I've followed for a long time, and I'm really excited for you to hear this conversation.For those of you who don't know Katie, they are a facilitator, theatre maker and writer living in London. She makes autobiographical work that often explores fatness, queerness, and community alongside making work with young people and communities across London. Previously, Katie performed her award-winning autobiographical solo show, Fatty, Fat, Fat and is currently developing their new show Blubber, which we're gonna talk about in this episode. We're also gonna talk about embodiment and feeling disconnected from our bodies, and how Katie handles a funky body image day. Before we get to Katie, just a reminder that Can I Have Another Snack? is entirely reader-supported. We don't have sponsors or do adverts or anything like that. I don't make money from affiliate links. I'm not trying to sell you anything that you don't need. All I ask is that if you value the space and the community that we're building, then please consider becoming a paid subscriber.Can I Have Another Snack? is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Yes, you get perks and bonuses and all of that great stuff. But more than that, you make this work sustainable and accessible for everyone. It's five pounds a month or 50 pounds for the year. And if that's unaffordable for you just now, please email hello@laurathomasphd.co.uk with the word snacks in the subject line, and we will hook you up with a comp subscription. No questions asked. Also consider gifting a subscription to one of your pals this holiday season, or getting someone to gift it to you. Alright, team, let's get to our last guest of the season, Katie Greenall.MAIN EPISODE:Laura: All right, Katie, can you tell us who or what you are nourishing right now?Katie: I love this question. I would like to think that especially this week, I am nourishing myself. I am really trying to form some new habits this week. I've had a bit of a, I'd say a few big few months of lots of different things, particularly work-wise. And so this week I'm really focusing on building some new habits and just like getting my shit together a little bit.And so, I've really been finding that really nourishing for me. Uh, so I would say top of the list, I'm nourishing myself. That isn't usually the case. That's usually, if I'm being really honest and reflective, that self and nourishment is usually much further down. But I'm really kind of stepping into that this week, which is why having this conversation with you feels like really beautifully timed because, um, yeah, I genuinely for the first time in a long time feel like I'm doing some nourishing of myself.Laura: It sounds like that's kind of unfamiliar to you.Katie: Hmm. Yeah.Laura: I guess I have two questions on that. Like one is what, you know, what is difficult about that for you usually, secondly, you know, what is that, that self nourishment looking like for you at the moment.Katie: I think it's difficult for a number of reasons. It's difficult because, one, I work a lot, um, So a big part of my job is facilitating and holding space for other people. Um, predominantly that's working with young people in different theater settings. Like I run lots of young companies, I work in schools, or with other, in other community settings.So like my literal job is holding space for other people, um, maybe similarly to yourself, uh, or in a, kinda, in a very different way. But that idea of, of a big part of what I do is holding and hopefully nourishing other people, nourishing artists or, um, yeah, like young people, to be able to achieve what they want to achieve, to access new skills and stuff like that.And so often when I get that, a lot of that work happens in evenings and at weekends. And so just stuff like eating meals and going to bed and having any sense of routine, which is something that is really important to me, just gets pushed further and further and down the list. And the more, you know, it was just definitely not revolutionary, but like the more tired you get, the more you feel like you're, it's harder and harder to keep hold of any of those things. So that's one thing. I think secondly is that I've been taught I shouldn't be taking care of myself. That like I, that me and my fat body don't deserve care. And sometimes that is really hard to challenge. Sometimes it's really hard to have the extra energy or capacity to be like, Oh, not only am I gonna give myself the care or the nourishment, Which I think is such a beautiful word, but not, not only am I going to do that, but I'm also, that takes energy in itself. I also have to take the next level of energy, which is to do that in spite of a structure that is trying to stop me from doing that. And so it's really hard and I've spent a long time knowing that, now I've come to realise, understand more about fat liberation and the capitalist structure and diet culture and all of those things, the more I've realised I can't and don't want to go back to having, having those thought cycles. Sometimes I don't have the power or the capacity or the strength to, to challenge them. And so I exist in this sort of no man's land instead. And so yeah, it feels really nice to be able to have the capacity, and time and resource to be able to kind of apply that nourishment to to myself.Laura: Yeah, that's a really, um, there's something quite striking in what you've just said, you know, and I think a lot of us experience this from time to time, like intellectually understanding that we are being oppressed by systems that, you know, that don't care about our lives or don't care about our wellbeing, that only find value in us if we are producing and conforming and looking a certain way and et cetera, et cetera. And, and, and, you know, wanting to, you know, placing value in rejecting those systems. And also there's still being a huge barrier to overcome to access self care, to access self nourishment, to care for ourselves and, and sort of, I don't know, I'm just imagining this kind of liminal space, this no man's land that you were talking about, and I find that a lot of us probably feel stuck in that place quite often.Katie: Yeah, because there's a real resistance, like I'm, I'm resistant to regressing into this, this space that I, you know, I've had like lots of us have, or on the, on the road to having, I hope, this sort of glass shattering moment where you are like, Oh, I can live in my body, in my case, in my fat queer body and be happy. Those things can coexist. I do not have to change the other thing in order to be happy. And I mean, happy in the fullest of sense. I mean, successful in whatever successful looks like, loved, cared for, fed, cherished, admired, like whatever that looks like. And, and that can change. And for the first sort of two decades of my life, I did not realise that I could be fat and any of those things.Laura: Yeah.Katie: I'd have glimmers of it and then be like, but it was so hard to hold onto, and I thought the only way that I could hold onto them more was, was to not be fat anymore.Laura: Yeah.Katie: And so I just, I utterly refute. I completely resist, going back to thinking like that. And so I would much rather sit in this no man's land space. But that being said, it's really difficult and it's meant that I have felt increasingly disconnected to my body in a way because I am reframing it as something that like, doesn't define my existence, or doesn't define my ability to achieve happiness or success or love or any of those things. The multitude of those. But I can't always work out how to achieve them. And so it's really challenging. And so it's felt like it's easier to sort of build some space between me and my body, rather than live that under fear of going back to a place that I don't wanna.Laura: Yeah. So many little, little threads that I want to tug on there. I suppose what I'm thinking about is just this, like the energy required to subvert the system and just say, No, I'm out When still existing and living within those structures, within the, those confines and, and all of the, you know, I suppose what we're talking to is this idea that yes, we can cognitively understand anti-fat bias or racism or capitalism or whatever structure that we're, we're naming, which they're all the same thing really. Let, let's face it, um, that, that, that is the issue, but still not, you know, we still need resources to be able to survive in those systems. And, you know, if we, you know, the less access we have to those resources, the harder our lives are. And so, you know, we can yeah, label something as anti-fat bias, but it still doesn't stop the system from, you know, perpetrating anti-fat bias whenever we need to go to the doctor or buy clothes or fly in an airplane or just, you know, walk down the street.Katie: And I think, you know, there is also a huge privilege in being able to decide when or when I do or don't want to engage with my body. And obviously sometimes I don't have a choice, um, often when then someone else enters my space and, um, Kind of those micro-aggressions or macro-aggressions, either from other people or structure, whether that's like societal structure or like the physical parameters of my space i.e. When I can't help but feel an arm of the chair digging into my side. Like, there are sometimes where I can't help but be faced with that. But I think, you know, it is a privilege to be able in my day to day life, to the moments when I can, to be able to choose whether or not I want to engage with my, with those things each, each day.And I, and I don't take that for granted. I don't necessarily find it easy, but I, I don't, I don't take those for granted. And that was because I am white and, middle class and, not disabled, and, and multitude of other things. But, um, it's really difficult and I guess when I'm making work about my body, I'm opting in to engage with it. And think that's probably why making work about my body is so important to me because I think it's a way for me to opt in and to also in like, to a great extent. I mean, it could definitely be better, but like I've also been paid to do it um, you know, I'm being paid for the labor of, of opting in to engage with those things, as I say, not a lot. And certainly I'm not being paid for every moment that I'm like going through that. But that's why I think it's really important when I'm making work about my body that, that I do make work about my body because otherwise, I, I wonder how much of my life I would just not, not feel embodied.Laura: But it, it's, it's so interesting, like I, I was just thinking as you were talking here about this idea of, you know, no man's land, being in this liminal space with your body and, like it sounds as though for you disconnection, disembodiment is, is a choice almost. And, or maybe that's not quite the right way of, of framing it, cuz I think that's maybe too simplistic a way to describe it. But really what I'm trying to get at is that oftentimes disembodiment and, uh, disconnection, dissociation are, are labeled or framed as this really negative really, you know, maladaptive is the, the word that we would use like in in the body image lingo, right? Like from an academic perspective, Right. But what I'm hearing from you is that it's a survival mechanism. It's a coping mechanism.Katie: Yeah, a hundred percent. And, I think about choice is really interesting. Cause like I definitely don't think it's active choice. I don't get off each day and go, or each week and go like, I'm choosing toLaura: Disembody. Yeah. Yeah.Katie: Um, there's clearly something is, like something within me is making that choice or something that's happening to me.But yeah, it's a hundred percent a survival technique but it's not necessarily one I'm ashamed of. I think I'm, most days I am proud of my fat body and I'm proud that I'm surviving in it. I am proud that I am still fat in spite of it all, that I'm honouring what my body needs and how it wants to exist in this moment. And I will like, whatever it is that I have to do in order to maintain that in a way that like, makes it make sense for me is something that, I'm not going lean away from. And I, and I think I begin to touch on this a bit in, in the show that I'm in the process of making at the moment, Blubber, which is like, I think towards the end of the process of making my last show Fatty, Fat, Fat, I was saying the same thing, you know, as is the nature of things when you perform something a lot or you talk about something a lot or, repeat yourself a lot. I was taking up the same space over and over again, or having the same conversations with journalists or audiences. But I was saying all the right things, but I wasn't, I wasn't connecting to them in the same way. And that's what this show, what Blubber's kind of came rooted in, is finding a way to try and feel more embodied, um, trying to feel more connected to a body that I've, that I'm proud to exist in, I think. And I'm proud to, to nourish and I'm proud to take care of, and I'm proud that still exists. And so it feels, I really want to feel connected to it. In a tangible way. Laura: I just wanna take a step back for a second for people who maybe aren't familiar with your previous show, Fatty, Fat, Fat, could you maybe just like give a just a very quick synopsis and then just so we can contextualise this conversation versus what you were talking about in that show.Katie: Totally. So, Fatty Fat Fat was my first solo autobiographical show. I started making it in 2018 after I just graduated from drama school. Kind of came out of, uh, frustration that lots of people in big bodies who work in the kind of entertainment, theatre, performing arts industry come against, which is like, I wasn't fat enough in inverted commas to be the fat girl in inverted commas um, or thin enough to be the normal girl in inverted commas. And so sort of, there was no castings, there was no jobs, there was, I was the fat, funny friend, etc, etc. And so it came out of, of a want to make work, but not seeing myself or stories or people like me really, um, reflected or, or being cast for. So Fatty Fat Fat was a show based on a series of anecdotes from my life where my relationship with my body changed because of other people's interactions with it.So they span from the age of 5 to 22. And they were micro-aggressions, um, generally either from family, friends or strangers that kind of, yeah, informed my relationship with my body and those were intersected with more kind of poetic movement moments that were rooted in where I was at in that process, present day. And also some kind of interactive moments that were talking about the wider fat liberation and fat acceptance movement. It was my coming out as being fat, I'd never called myself fat before I made that show. It was very much fat activism 1 0 1, and it's, you know, doesn't take away from my pride in that show. But it was time to leave it behind and, and Blubber really picks up from there.Laura: And I wanted to, so I, yeah, I just thought it would be helpful to give that kind of background what that show was versus this, this new show where it, it feels like a, Yeah, like you said before, trying to feel more connected to your body whilst, as we described before, living in systems that want that, you know, benefit from you being disconnected and disembodied. So I'm curious to know and I, I wonder if this kind of connects into this question of, of nourishment that we were talking about at the beginning and, and finding ways to nourish yourself, and that even in and of itself, being subversive as a fat person. What does embodiment mean to you? What does it look like? What does it feel like? You know, like, like we said before, sometimes it's held up as being this, this gold standard way of being in your body. Right? But I don't know that that's necessarily always true, and, and so I'm, I'm curious to hear from you. Yeah. Just tell me all your thoughts on embodiment.Katie: On embodiment. I think the short answer is I don't know what embodiment looks like to me. I think what I'm trying to work out, um, is the shortest and simplest answer. I think that embodiment can look like lots of things. So there is a version of embodiment for me that is being on stage right, I am acutely aware of everything that me and my body are doing that, especially as a solo performer that it is, I'm responsible for everything that's happening in this space. I'm like, whatever I do or say is queuing the next light or sound. I'm having a relationship to the audience. Yeah, they might be looking around the room, but like they've paid money to be there, to be there and watch me, or listen, and so like those moments, I am aware of everything. Like you learn, and like actors training about like this duality, you have to have a sort of outward eye but also an inward eye. So like which is where like, you know, practices like method acting and stuff like that become where you are like fully character all the time become a little dangerous.Um, and so yeah, my training is very much thinking about like, and what I kind of continue to pass on when I'm working with other artists is like working both ways. So, Yes, I'm saying the lines and I'm in my character, but also I'm inside, I'm thinking, Oh, am I connecting to my diaphragm? Can someone hear me? Someone's just dropped a prop over there and I need to make sure I move that out of the way before the big dance number, or whatever it is. You've got to have this duality. And so there's something about embodiment in that moment where you're like, I need to be aware not only of everything that's happening to me, around me, but also what's happening inside of me. And, and I'm really responsible for, for that. And obviously I have team that I definitely couldn't do without the team that work alongside me. But in those moments, you know, you couldn't, can't help but feel embodied. And so for me, that's why live performance is so important rather than working in film or TV or recorded media is, is because that aliveness makes me feel alive in a way that I don't necessarily know how to replicate in other, in other spaces, which comes with other things because it also is terrifying, incredibly anxiety inducing and complicated. And so it's not just as easy as standing up and being like, Here we go. But there are moments of that where you kind, when you're able to move through the fear, and you're not doing the show for the first time or something. You're like, I'm here, I'm feeling this, I'm doing this, and we're doing it together And that feels exciting.Laura: There's something, I mean, I've, I've seen both shows and there is something very like visceral and immersive about your performances. Like you're in this relationship with the audience, you're having this dialogue, this conversation with them, and I think, yeah, the word that you used, was it like, did you say vital? Vitality?Katie: Yeah.Laura: Yeah. You can perceive that from sitting in the audience. So yeah, I can, I can see how that, that that is a moment of, of connection and that's something that I took from Blubber. We were kind of talking about this off mic before that, and, and I don't know that this is necessarily how you were framing things, but, but it's certainly how I interpreted the show was that there is not this big like crescendo moment where you like, make peace with your body and then it's just like, you know, happily ever after, from, from there on out, that there was this real sense of, of moments of joy and comfort and connection in our bodies. And I'm gonna ask you about one of them in just a second. But, um, yeah, like that they were just kind of like peppered all over the place. Almost if we, we go back to that analogy that you used before, where you moved from that no man's land, where your body just kind of almost doesn't exist in a, in a way to being fully immersed and in your body and connected to it in this really positive and vital way.Katie: Yeah, I think that's such a lovely way of putting it. And, and the show doesn't crescendo in the same way. We, we spent a long time thinking about that in development we were like, Oh, where does the crescendo happen? Cause when I initially wrote it, it had about four ones rather than big one. And I think, um, It's a separate conversation to be had about like Western storytelling and what we, what that's, where that's rooted in and, and, and why we feel we need that and blah, blah, blah. That is for a separate, a separate conversation. But I really hear you. And the show has those kind of pockets of, of joy and reflection in amongst stuff that's really knotty and difficult. I think there's something for me in, Fatty Fat Fat ends with the line, I want my body back. Right? And so I sort of imagine that Blubber picks up going, Okay, here you go, imagining someone is going, All right, well there you are, here's the keys, what are you gonna do about it? Like, what happens now? And, and I think that's why this conversation about knowing's life is really pertinent to me because it's like, cool, if someone puts me in the driver's seat of my own body, do I even know where the pedals are anymore? I really know what all the buttons do? Do I know what feels good or what doesn't? Like okay, so yeah, I've got the keys, but how do I take control? How do I drive on the open road with all, Like, how do I make it feel like convertible, uh, with my, you know, the sea air in my hair? Singing to a song. Like driving isn't like that. You might get pockets of that, but other times you're stuck in a traffic jam or you can't start, or you need maintenance, or it's just like you're using it from, gets from A to B. Laura: Yeah,Katie: And I, and I think Blubber is a little bit about reflecting on my body as a vehicle and the times where it works and it feels like it's mine and it feels like I'm in it and I'm, I'm driving it. And other times where it feels like I'm, I'm still learning what it can do and, and what feels safe and, and all of those things sit within the structure of whether or not they're possible or impossible, or I'm allowed in inverted commas or not allowed or, you know, all of those things then have a context that sits around them.Laura: I think it's so important to speak to the messiness, the stickiness, how complicated it is to have a body, because I feel otherwise we, we fall into the trap of presenting binaries around our bodies, like either love your body and always be completely grateful. You know, I've spoken a lot on this series in particular around having a baby and how we're presented with these that very either or options of like, well be grateful cuz your body did this miraculous thing. Right? Or, change your body and get it, you know, get your pre-baby body back or, you know, so these really, like, I want more options than that to, to feel about my body. And I want to have those moments of joy and connection and comfort in my body. And I also want to scream when I'm having those really difficult days in my body and feeling the, the clout of all of those systems that, that really crush us in a metaphorical sense.Katie: Yeah, totally. And I, and I think, I thought for a long time, particularly with Fatty Fat Fat and maybe less so with Blubber, but I think it's, if anything, it's just got deeper, is that like I thought I couldn't make a show about fatness until I was, until I loved my body, until I'd reached that absolute nirvana, um, and I was completely at peace and could run around naked and do a back flip and everyone see all my, you know warts and all and I'd be like, Oh, I don't care. And I thought I couldn't make a show about fatness until I'd felt like that, because I thought it was either where I was currently at or that space and there was nowhere in between.And it was when I kind of realised that there could be some spectrum of that that, that I realised that kind of allowed me to get myself permission to make, to make the work. And, and if anything, Blubber has just got deeper and messier in the complexities of that. And it's really difficult.And I remember we had a time in, uh, the development of the show earlier in the year, in January. We were doing some movement work and I felt really challenged by something and got quite emotional after we'd just done an exercise in the room and we were reflecting on it. And, and I remember sort of sharing with the team that like, I just felt really ugly, I felt like my body didn't look nice and I was having, you know, I'm making something, you know, It was an exercise. It was, it was nothing, like, we were just trying something out and, and I, and I suddenly became really aware of like, why did that find so difficult? Because I, I was like, Oh, Cause I'm, I'm emphasising things that I, that I don't want to, or I'm, I'm feeling, I'm feeling the, the ugliness of, of my body, not because it's fat, just because I'm putting myself in weird positions.I'm screwing myself up. I'm, I'm folding all my chins in, all in on themselves. And like, and like some, some days that stuff doesn't bother you. But like in that moment I was just like, it's all very well, like sharing a lot of yourself with an audience, but then sharing something with a room full of strangers that like is not a version of yourself that you would show it, you would want to show anyone. How, how do we hold those things? How do we hold that messiness and ugliness that we all hold, but in my body it means something so different. And me sharing that and giving that to you means something really different. And that was a really useful learning for me and just being like, Oh, that is a limit. I mean, we've always thought about that whenever we've been making work, but like there is a limit of things that, that I'm comfortable doing without putting myself in danger.Laura: Mm-hmm. Wow. Yeah. There's so much to think about there. And I suppose as, as you were talking about all of those parts of yourself that we're taught to conceal and hide and push down, and as, all I was thinking about is just this idea that those are all things that we've been taught to feel shame about.Shame, shame, shame, shame, shame. If your body looks, you know, if you have double chins or triple chins or you know, if, if, if you don't, you know, if you turn side on and you have a belly or all of these things, we only ever see these like flat one dimensional representations of bodies that have been, you know, through layers and layers and layers of modification that it's so shocking, it's so shocking to see a real body. In all three dimensions to taking up space. And that shouldn't be shocking, but what I'm hearing you say is that there's something really, really unsafe about, you know, putting your body in those positions.Katie: Because I think there's still stuff that I'm unlearning about, like palatable fatness and being, you know, there's so many people that have said it, you know, say it far more articulately than I will or can about like the, you know, good fatties and bad fatties and how we can navigate the cultures that exist and the, and the barriers in society by demonstrating that we can be feminine or beautiful or graceful or healthy or educated or whatever it is in order to kind of overcompensate, for this like big glaringly obvious thing, which is my fat body and or, or fat bodies generally. And I think there was something that I learned in that moment about like how, how deeply that goes still. And, you know, I don't mind making a fool of myself. I don't mind showing bits of myself in a way that maybe you know, 2, 3, 4, 5 years ago, I might have had more of a challenge with. I don't mind exposing myself. There's some video content in the show, which is like really zoomed in, uh, bits of my body where you see like my bitten fingernails or my, I've got lovely skin, I'm very lucky, but I always get a series of spots underneath one, my right. You know, it's just like, and those things are blown up really big for an audience to make it, you know, because my whole, to show my whole body can be a universe, right? And I don't think a version of me before that, before would've been able to cope with that.And there are things that I'm, that I'm willing to find the imperfections now. I'm willing to share those with the audience. But I'm, I think there is something about like, you know, that initially Blubber came from this idea of wanting to feel beautiful. I don't think I've ever felt beautiful. I still don't.And I think I wanted to make a beautiful show so that some people would watch it and be like, Wow, you are beautiful because you made beautiful work. I've, I've been lots of other things. I am lots of other things, but that's just not something I don't that word specifically I don't think I've ever felt that sensation.And so there was something in that moment of being like, I can be, I can not be that. I can be somewhere in the middle. I can go below the middle two. But I, like, I don't want to show all my deepest insecurities, difficulties, no matter how much I'm learning or challenging or understanding why I feel that way about myself.But like no wants to share the worst stuff with an audience. And I don't think it's fair to an audience either.Laura: I'm, I'm feeling quite emotional listening to you talk particularly about that, that sort of sequence that was projected up onto kind of this like really ethereal netty curtainy sort of situation because like I sitting in the audience found that completely breathtaking. That and the part where there's a lot of kind of like red light projected on you and it felt sort of like you were being held in this like womb. I don't know if that was the vibe you were going for.Katie: Yeah, definitely womb like, because it's, that's sort of inside the body of a whale, so um, womb, internal, all of that sort of stuff. Definitely.Laura: Yeah. Both of those things. Just, um, I don't know. There was something about that. Both of them felt very, very vulnerable, but there was something, so, I don't know that beautiful is the right word, because that feels kind of like that trivialises what it was.Katie: And I think that's why the show is less about beauty now because, I think as we went on it, like actually what it was, was about feeling. And I think as someone that's been socialised as a woman, I've been taught that beauty is the ultimate goal. And or the antidote to my fatness. And like, like so many, people who live in fat bodies, I was, you know, told a lot growing up, you would be so beautiful if you weren't fat. And like, I, again, we don't, there's a not unique experiences and, and there's so many conversations that are, have been had and are being had about like, you know, beautiful being be able to coexist with fatness. And I, and I look at, I, I feel so lucky and grateful that I look at fat bodies, other people's fat bodies now, and I, and I think they are beautiful. But I never felt that in myself and, and really and in reflection, I think it's because I want to feel sensation. And I think it goes back to our previous conversation about embodiment and disembodiment, is I felt like I just wasn't feeling anything either in or around my body or within my body because I was like, feeling was such a big part of who I was. Feeling huge emotions is such a big part of me, particularly being an artist. And I think I was just like making so much space between me and my body that I wasn't feeling any of those things. And so it wasn't really about beauty, it was about feeling held or feeling something monumental or extraordinary or new or astonishing or even awful or trying or terrifying. But like between the onslaught of news, a pandemic, government crisis, a you know, everything else on top of experiencing the world in a, in a marginalised body that intersects different marginalisations, but obviously not all of them. You just, at some point there becomes a disconnect. And so, yeah, I really hear what you're saying about those things and I, and I see and agree with you. And so I think that's why the show wasn't about beauty anymore. It was about sensation, like just being able to feel and connect with something on my body.Laura: Yeah. And, and, and I suppose what you're naming there is also dissociation disconnection. That can be really powerful, really useful. I mean, life saving survivals tools. And they have a cost. They come with this, this huge price, which is, you know, not being able to sense or feel or emote these, you know, these things that you know, to, to bring it back again to embodiment are really vital to you, you know, to feeling that aliveness, that connectedness, that humanness.Katie: Totally. And also to go back to your kind of your first question, nourishment, because it also meant that I wasn't nourishing my body, um, because I was so disconnected from it or disembodied that I wasn't feeding it properly, I wasn't nourishing it in the things it consumed in the media, wasn't nourishing it in, in loads of different ways because, because I wasn't connected enough with it to be able to empathise or to be able to understand what, what it needed. And so I think these things are all, all so connected. Because without that, without that embodiment, it's really hard to make offers of meaningful nourishment. I can kind of know to go to bed or know to eat some toast, but like, or know not to spend 10 hours on TikTok. sometimes, I mean all of those things also their placeLaura: But, But yeah, all of those things can like spending 10 hours on TikTok can be nourishing sometimes when you need But I think what you're speaking to is like the fine tuning of that. And knowing when, Yeah, it's 10 hours in TikTok versus, No, actually I need to like get outside or talk to a, another humanKatie: Or go to sleep. Do you know what I mean? Like, know when to say no. Know what my boundaries are. I've been really thinking about something that, Candice Brathwaite said online, in some point in the last few months about like, laziness and idleness and I think as a fat person you are told you are lazy and I've been called lazy as long as I can remember. And so I'm doing a lot of work at the moment with myself about what are things that I truly believe and what are things that I am thinking, what are things truly exist and what things have I been told? And cuz sometimes they are the, like, those things kind can coexist.And so there's the thing about laziness, I'm thinking at the moment. Cause I do think I'm naturally quite a lazy person. Like I could, I could easily sit on a sofa and, and not move for, for days. I, that's fine. Like I'm, I'm into it. I'm not, I'm not mad at, But part of me's like, is that true or is that just because I've been told that that's true.And I, and I'm something that Candice has said recently online was like about how, um, sometimes the best way to take care of yourself is, is to challenge those instincts.Laura: Mm.Katie: Actually for me, some of the best ways I used to take care of myself, and I'm still trying to work out what that looks like in present day, was kind of before pandemic, um, before 2020, cause the pandemic's still happening. But, um, before 2020 anyway of like, some of the best ways I used to take care of myself was actually saying yes and going out and doing things rather than saying no and staying in.Laura: Mm-hmm.Katie: Because I have chronic FOMO and I love being busy, I love getting my en you know, I get my energy from other people.I love living my life like that. And so there's a version of me now that's like, oh, is that still true? Or do I need to actually stay home and take care of myself or eat, not, you know, go to bed early or whatever, Or am I being lazy? And I, I, I'm really trying to connect with what is true about me. Um, and that's something I'm finding really difficult at the moment, but, I'm really trying to engage with, and I think, again, links to lots of things we've been talking about.Laura: Yeah. Absolutely. And I love, I love that kind of distinction that you made. Like is this something, what, Tell me again what it was. Is this something I'm thinking?Katie: Is this something I'm thinking I've been told or is true?Laura: Yes. Okay. Yeah, and I think that that's such a, a helpful way of, of reframing some of those, those thoughts and beliefs that come to our mind. And I have, I have such a visceral reaction to the word lazy because I like firmly believe that that is just a social construct designed to make us feel bad about rest.Well, on that note, the last question that I had for you, and, you know, given all of the complexities, um, you know, and the, the stuff that you're kind of really in process of, of figuring out at the moment, I would love to know who or what is nourishing you right now?Katie: First of all, my housemate has bought me a really delicious pan aux raisin from the coffee shop up the road, and it is sitting in a paper bag behind the door.Laura: It's waiting for you,Katie: behind meLaura: Your stomach, grumbling stomach knows it's there, it's ready.Katie: That is the thing that is about to nourish me and, um, and she is just, um, being proud of that. I think, the things are nourishing me is routine, trying to find structure and routine in my life.That's something that's really nourishing me at the moment. Something that is also nourishing me is really leaning into my deep love and interest in the Real Housewives, um, That is something that's deeply nourishing me at the moment. And being able to talk in depth with friends about that is really nourishing parts of me that I didn't know I needed.Laura: Okay. And you will not be surprised to learn that this is not the first time that this, that this has come up podcast this season.Katie: Wow.Laura: So I talked to Clara Nosek, aka Your Dietician BFF. Had a great conversation. Highly recommend go back and listening to that. And her, the thing that's nourishing her right now is reality tv, but very specifically Housewives,Katie: Great. So I'm a big reality fan, reality TV fan, but particularly Housewives. So, I could, like, even now, just the thought of being able about it, especially in a public forum is like really make me froth at the mouth. Um, some young people I work with, was working with, uh, like as the sort of present for the end of the project, they very sweetly got me a seal cuddly toy with some like gold hoop earrings and they um, called it the Real Housewife of Shepherd's Bush, which is where we were working together. So, yeah, that's something that's really nourishing me right now. Finding these pockets of sunlight. Um, hopefully if you are, if and when you're listening to this, you might be able to find one of those too, but I dunno, it seems like from behind you, you've got a lovely bit of sunshine, your side.But yeah, there's some beautiful kind of sunlight pouring into my windows and I've got this sort of glitter ball Laura: Is that what it is?Katie: globe.Laura: Oh, okay. I've seen these little like,Katie: Pockets, Yeah. There's, so every now and then my living room, um, if the light is at the right angle, makes these sort of spots of light appear. And so all of those things feel really nourishing, I think for one of the first times in my recent life, like my work isn't nourishing me, uh, at the moment and like I'm looking to other things to hold that with me, and I think that's really exciting.That doesn't mean. It's not satisfying or it's not, not doing what it needs to do or like, it just means it's not the sole focus of that, where that nourishment is coming from. And I feel really excited by the prospect of that and that feels quite new. And finally, I've got a, I'm going to see all being well, I'm going to see, um, Adele in Las Vegas next March. AndLaura: There was like a wry smile, and I was like, I'm desperate to know what it is.Katie: So currently all roads lead to Vegas and that is deeply nourishing me, cuz it's like the end of the winter. It just feels, it's not so far away that it feels impossible, but it feels tangible, but enough time to get excited. So like that is also something me. So like,Laura: focused, you're focused on getting there.Katie: so there's, there's a real mix and I think variety is a spice of life. You know, I'm a freelancer. I'm, although I've just said all that stuff about routine and structure, like, I feel excited when I'm bouncing around and doing multiple different things. And so, trying to find that balance, um, feels exciting and, hopefully nourishing as well.Laura: It's that, I don't know if this like speaks to your experience, but like I've seen a lot of people online and it like resonates with me as well. Like talk about that neurodivergent urge towards chaos, but needing routine and structure like the routine and structure being really helpful and useful, but being the exact opposite thing, like also feeling like suffocating at the same time.Katie: Absolutely.Laura: All right. Before we finish up this episode, I would love to know what you're snacking on. So it can be a literal snack if you want, although we've covered off the pan raises end, so check that box. But it can be a book, a podcast, a movie, a person, anything. So can you share what you're snacking on right now?Katie: I am snacking on, Oh, there's so many things I could say. I had something in mind but I'm changing my mind. I am snacking on, I'm really trying to, I'm gonna go for like a literal thing I'm snacking on.Laura: Go on.Katie: And I'm really reaching back into, um, like childhood foods, the foods that maybe I didn't have growing up or, thought I couldn't. And, and so I'm really leaning into like the cheese string, the fruit winder, the penguin, the Frosty cereal bar. Those are my, like ones of choice, but also, Primula, the cheeseLaura: My God. Yeah. Yeah.Katie: on Ritz crackers.Laura: my God. Love RitzKatie: That is, that is like a real peak school time snack that we used to have at, like, at the end of term.And so, yeah, it's, those are the things I'm stacking on at the moment, just like really trying to find that joy in those little snacks again. Those are the things that I'm loving.Laura: so funny you say that cause I was just in Scotland last week and my friend and I bought a pick and mix and I do not remember the last time I bought a pick and mix and I was just like, chomping on these cola bottles, like the sour sweets. It was amazing. So yeah, I'm right there with you with the like, nostalgic, nostalgic foods.Okay, so my thing is a book, I'm like halfway through reading it, which I'm always a bit like, can I really recommend a book when I'm not completely finished it? But like, I think I know enough to know that it's worth reading. And this is someone that I'm really hoping will come on the podcast next season, but, so the book is called Small Fires. And it's by Rebecca May Johnson. And she is the co-editor of Vittles, which is a great Substack. I really struggle to describe what it's about because basically throughout the course of the book, she cooks the same recipe over a thousand times. And she talks about, she talks about cooking and food through this, like political lens is kind of the only way that I can think, or like I can describe it. But she's talking about appetite and she's talking about how kind of, in the same way that you were talking about that, like duality between the artist and the audience.She's talking about like this sort of reciprocal relationship between a recipe and the person that's cooking it and the food, and it's just such a, like, mind blowing way to think about food and cooking and it's just really cool. I, you just need to read it. Maybe I'll link to like, about review in the show notes, but Yeah, so it's called Small Fires by Rebecca May Johnson and it's just like, it would make a great Christmas present for someone.So yeah, that's my snack. All right, Katie, tell us, tell the audience where they can find out more about you and your work.Katie: so you can find out more about me and my work on, um, my Instagram or Twitter, which is @katie_greenall on both, um, or my website, which is www.katiegreenall.com. Those are the best ways to find me.Laura: Perfect. And I will obviously link to all of that in the show notes. And yeah, I have really, really enjoyed this conversation. It's felt really nourishing. And I'm really looking forward to seeing how Blubber sort of evolves in the direction that you take it in. And as soon as you know when and where that's gonna be, I will be sharing about it and let the audience know where they can come and see that show.So, thank you so much for being here and being so candid and honest about your relationship with your body, your relationship with food, and yeah, just all the things that you've been thinking about. It's been really a great conversation. So thank you.Katie: It's been a joy. Thank you so much for having me.OUTRO:Laura Thomas: Thank you for listening to Season 1 of Can I Have Another Snack? If you've enjoyed these conversations, then please rate and review in iTunes and share these episodes with your friends. Can I Have Another Snack? is hosted by me, Laura Thomas, edited by Joeli Kelly, our funky artwork is by Caitlin Preyser. And the music is by Jason Barkhouse. Fiona Bray keeps me on track and makes sure this episode gets out every week. This season wouldn't be possible without your support so thank you for being here and valuing my work and I will catch you in January, when we'll be back with a whole host of really cool guests exploring appetites, bodies, and identity. Talk to you then. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit laurathomas.substack.com/subscribe

I am SUPER excited to introduce this weeks guest - the fierce and fabulous Virgie Tovar! Virgie is an author of some really amazing books (which you'll find linked in the transcript below), activist, and expert on weight-based discrimination and body image. Virgie also has her own pod called ‘Rebel Eaters Club' and has her own column at Forbes, where she writes about plus size fashion and also how to end weight discrimination at work.This conversation went in a totally different direction than I had expected it to, but in a really interesting way! I'm super excited for you all to hear this one, but we do talk a little about childhood abuse and eating disorders so if you don't think you're up for it right now, maybe shelf this episode for another day. Find out more about Virgie here.Follow her work on Instagram here.Follow Laura on Instagram here. Can I Have Another Snack? is a reader-supported publication. To receive new posts and support my work, consider becoming a free or paid subscriber.Here's the transcript in full.INTRO:Laura: Hey, and welcome to the Can I Have Another Snack podcast where I'm asking my guests who or what they're nourishing right now and who or what is nourishing them. I'm Laura Thomas, an anti-diet registered nutritionist, and author of the Can I Have Another Snack newsletter. Today I'm talking to Virgie Tovar, and for the 1% of my audience who don't know who Virgie is, she's an author, activist, and expert on weight-based discrimination and body image.She holds a master's degree in sexuality studies with a focus on the intersection of body size, race, and gender, and she's a contributor for Forbes where she covers the plus-size market and how to end weight discrimination at work. Virgie edited the anthology, Hot and Heavy: Fierce Fat Girls on Life, Love and Fashion, and she's the author of You Have The Right to Remain Fat and The Self-Love Revolution, Radical Body Positivity for Girls of Color, which I will 100% be featuring when I cover body-affirming books for teens on my newsletter.In this episode, we talk about the work Virgie is doing to heal her inner child. I really love how Virgie contextualizes this work as mothering work as part of her wider project of maternity, as she calls it. And that's where she's exploring whether she wants to be a biological parent and the layers of grief, social conditioning, and reconciling her own childhood that she has to go through in order to process.This is not at all what I thought we were gonna be talking about today. Virgie kind of took this in an unexpected but really interesting direction. I really hope you enjoy it, so much juicy stuff in here, and I think you're gonna love this episode. But just a heads up that there is some mention of childhood abuse and eating disorders. We don't go into lots of detail, but if you're not in a good place today, then maybe sit this one out and come back when you're feeling a bit more up for it. And while you're here, just a reminder that if you're not a fully paid-up member of the Can I Have Another Snack community then you're missing out on so many great benefits like our Thursday discussion threads, Snacky Bits, where we're having smart conversations away from the noise and the fat phobic trolls of social media.You'll also get access to my Dear Laura column where this month I'm answering a question from a stepparent about parenting a fat child. Plus you'll get access to my Anti Parenting Downloads Bonus podcast episodes and lots more. It's five pounds a month or 50 pounds for the year, and your support allows me to pay a podcast editor, a copy editor for my long-form essays, and it pays for the hours and hours of research and other labor that is required to produce thoughtful writing. I figured this out earlier and five pounds a month works out as paying me 55p per article. So if you think that these articles are worth at least 55p, then please consider becoming a fully paid-up member of the Can I Have Another Snack community. And if you already are, thank you so much.And if you fancy gifting a subscription to a friend, I would super appreciate that. Thank you. And if you need a comp subscription for any reason, then just email hello@laurathomasphd.co.uk with ‘snacks' in the email header, and we will hook you up - no questions asked.And one last favour to ask. If you're listening to this in Apple Podcasts, please go and leave a rating and review. We haven't had any reviews yet, which is a total bummer because it really helps more people find the podcast and hopefully feel held and supported by these conversations.And I know you all are listening, so please just drop a quick comment or leave five stars. I would really appreciate it. All right, team. Here's Virgie Tovar.MAIN EPISODELaura: Alright Virgie, can you tell us who or what you are nourishing right now?Virgie: When I think the, I mean, I think I'm nourishing a lot of things, but the first thing that comes to mind is, really nourishing my child self who is, has a, just has a lot of trauma and has a lot of, um, you know, like I, I started therapy about a year ago and it's been this really interesting kind of process of like almost trying to, you know, untangle something or figure out a puzzle or just like learn a whole new way of, of thinking, but it, it's just become really clear that my little Virgie self is super terrified. There's like all of these things that she doesn't like and she's really scared of and so just kind of not only understanding that she deserves and needs a lot of attention and care, but at right now, as, as a 40 year old person who is considering biological maternity, but probably not, not going to be a mother. Um, biologically, certainly. And I think kind of going through the grief process of letting go of that narrative, which is a cultural narrative. And it's also kind of an internal narrative and just recognizing that, you know, I think I learned this from a friend recently, or someone actually someone I follow on the internet who I'm hoping to work with on this topic. But, you know, really understanding that the project of that inner child who didn't really have a childhood, it is a legitimate form of maternity, is a legitimate motherhood project. And so I think it's like, what's what I'm nourishing is that kid, that inner kid. And also the sense that that in fact it is true, that raising her and caring for her is its own maternity project. And it's a legitimate maternity project, even if it's not recognized by the culture.Laura: Oh my God. I feel like I'm gonna cry. I was not expecting you to say any of that, but that is just, it's so beautiful and there's something in there I probably need to take to my own therapy, but it really resonates with me and I just love this idea so much of, of mothering. You know, I, I love any conversation that talks about mothering outside of the parameters that society has dictated for us, which are usually, as we were just talking about, off mic, you know, heteronormative relationships, between a, a cis man and a, a cis woman and, you know, da da da. We all know that story. And so, yeah, just to think about different ways of mothering and tending to, and caring for parts of ourselves as, as being encompassed within that. Like, that's just, I mean, I think that's just a stunning thing to think about regardless of, you know, whether or not you have biological children or, you know, are, are a parent in some other kind of like, however you became. . all of that was just to say, I love his idea. Like, tell me more. What is this work looking like for you? How are you nurturing, you know, little inner child Virgie?Virgie: Yeah, I mean, I, a lot of it is just slowing down, like giving her the time to have a feeling, and to recognize the feeling and to sort of ask like, what do you need right now? So I, I think I, the, the, the temporal piece is the piece that really stands out. I mean obviously we, we sort of, I think that we live in a world, at least I feel like I live in a world in the United States and California, where, time is, you know, time is considered sort of this extremely limited resource. And I think that there's a real, obviously a premium on productivity and things like that, but it's become really clear to me that emotional processes are happening on a totally different timeline. Like even just, I mean, noticing. So for example, the other day, I, this is kind of a, a, an inter, like, it's a bit of an involved story, but I think it's useful in sharing what the nurturing looks like.Laura: Yeah. Let's do it.Virgie: Because it's not exactly like what you'd expect maybe. Okay. So the other day I was out shopping and I ran into a neighbor and I said, Now how are you doing? And she said, You know, I'm honestly not doing really well. She was having a really hard time. Her apartment had gotten flooded and then the landlord was sort of, her landlord was trying to evict her and she takes care of her 81 year old grandmother with a chronic illness and there was a lot going. And so, and so what's happening as this is, um, so for me, like there's two sort of people in the room as I'm listening to my neighbor, there's grownup Virgie who's like having compassion, thinking about, what I can do to help thinking about what resources I can deploy and how I can help her feel comfortable and safe for even just a few minutes as we're together.And then there's little Virgie who is extremely parentified, who grew up with parents who were sort of, you know, essentially like emotionally immature. So I constantly had to take care of them. I constantly had to parent them. I constantly had to sort of worry about their emotional state, and that because it was an inappropriate role reversal, it was very traumatizing.So grownup Virgie is having a totally great, very, you know, I would say like adult appropriate response to hearing this from her neighbor. Little Virgie is like, terrified. Little Virgie is really, really, really scared that an adult is having a really difficult time and that she doesn't have all the resources she needs to save her from her situation, you know?And so I'm just sort of deeply aware of that, that sort of sense of terror is rising within me and so taking care of little Virgie in that moment looked like actually a number of different things. One was sort of being like, you know, recognizing, I know you're afraid. And there's sort of a term called flooding for people who have developmental trauma. It just, like flooding is really when all the emotion, they're just flooding in, you know? And it's really difficult to tell what your boundaries are, to tell what your needs are. And I sort of, you know, can have a difficult time separating myself from the person who's having little Virgie does.Um, so I'm like, Okay, little Virgie, you're totally afraid. And that's okay. And so I'm kind of, you know, as I'm listening to my neighbor and being present for my neighbor, there's also a part of me that's sort of like, Okay, don't worry. We're gonna take care of your boundaries. Let's think about it, cause little Virgie is like, Okay, so I'm terrified, but let's have her move into our apartment can bring her mom and her two dogs and, um, everything's gonna be fine. And you can just cook for her and clean for her and like, comfort her and make sure that she's not afraid. And, you know, and so like little Virgie's just trying to save her. And so, and I'm like, Okay, I know you wanna do that. Um, but actually, right, like let's only offer the resources that we know aren't going to threaten our ability to be okay because, And so I'm just talking to her and being like, What's another, instead of, instead of that little Virgie, like what are some other options?Like maybe we can drive her home, maybe we can check up on her over the phone in the next couple of days. Maybe we can ask our friends what they might do and they have some ideas and some of them work in fields where that might be useful. Um and what if, you know, like you actually have the resources to offer to pay for a hotel or to offer her some gift cards or whatever if she wanted to book an Airbnb, if it gets too rough, like, and little Virgie was like, Ah, yeah, that sounds way better than what I was thinking. Um, and so, and I think the next couple of days, cuz emotionally flooding is so overwhelming, I was like, little Virgie is gonna be exhausted, little Virgie is gonna take longer to do tasks.Like, it's just, she's just really tired because even though it was just like a seemingly small moment, you know, she is, she felt like it was a really big moment. Um, and so it's like, it's like all of those things are kind of, that's how that looks like, you know?Laura: Wow. I'm, yeah, I'm trying to even figure out where to go from here. There was so much in there that I kinda wanna go back to. I thought we were talking, I thought we were gonna talk about ballet, dude, like. But this is good. This is like, this is really good and. So I hear what I'm hearing you say is that little Virgie, because she was so used to having to care for people in a way that was so out of her depth, that was so, you know, beyond anything that should be asked of a child that that ended up becoming a traumatizing experience. And so whenever you encounter someone who's in crisis, or even if it's not crisis crisis, even if it's like things are a bit shit, then like little VIrgie sort of armors up and is like, All right, ready to go into battle, like, what do I need to do? And it takes like, you have to talk her down and remind her that she's safe. It's okay. We have other ways of dealing, like dealing with this that won't compromise yourself, that won't compromise your wellbeing, and your safety.Virgie: Yeah, a hundred percent. I mean, yeah, that, that's, that's exactly what, what's happening. And I think there's a lot of, you know, I mean, I just, again, going back to the, to the project of maternity, it really is like all of those little moments. I mean, you know, as a mom, like, you know, and that, obviously there's all of these little moments and I think children really do experience the world through, through emotion, you know?And so it's like, you know, just kind of being like, okay, like whenever there's, and again, the stakes sometimes are high, sometimes they're relatively low. And she's perceiving, right? And I think this is all connected to a conversation about food and body and all of this understanding, right, that like, at the end of the day, the stakes to her are acceptance, which is basically, you know, to a child, the difference between life and death.Right? And so I think that the stakes can feel extremely high, especially when you start getting messages about all kinds of things as a kid. Like, I mean, I was recently, this is, this is a little bit of a, of a, of a more, I think more specific to the, to the topic of the podcast. But like, you know, I've, I've had many moments where I'm realizing that the fat phobia that I also learned as a child at the age of like four or five years old, that, uh, you know, I'm, I was always a bigger kid and I'm a bigger adult.And so, you know, like being, being a fat kid and experiencing fat phobia, I still have to nurture that, that part of little Virgie too. Like, you know, I think about like the way that I learned fat phobia was that, you know, if you stop being fat, then you will be saved from other people's abuse.And the way that you become not fat is through restricting food. So to me, restricting food really did become connected to a sense that if I do this correctly or I do this hard enough, then I won't be abused by other people. And really at the end of the day, like this is kind of the dilemma that anybody who's experiencing or afraid of experiencing fat phobia, that's really the, the crux of what the equation and what the decision is really about, you know? And so learning those kinds of messages as a kid that I could, you know, hurt myself in order to be safe for, from people who were abusing me. I mean, it's the, like the, those are lessons that are still, like, even as somebody who's well practiced and anti diet and is more than 10 years into that work, there are still ways in which it kind of rears its head around self-harm essentially.Laura: Oh, again, like, just so many things I wanna, I wanna pick up on there. But I think what was coming up for me there, Virgie, is this idea that I know has been a, a critique of the anti diet space is just how we sometimes overlook, how deeply ingrained, or maybe not even deeply ingrained, but how much dieting is often used to seek out safety, to, because that has been a coping mechanism, from childhood to protect yourself from being vulnerable, from being hurt, from pain, physical, emotional pain. And yeah. So I, I really just wanted to thank you for kind of like pulling that thread out. And also I'm curious to hear, because I, I'm guessing that listeners are gonna be curious to know for you when, you know, when little Virgie is feeling the threat of anti-fat bias of fat phobia, how are you taking care of yourself? Like what again, would you, do you have like an example of what that looks like for you?Virgie: Yeah, I mean, I think, It kind of goes back to the temporality piece, kind of just like slowing way down. I mean, the example that comes to mind is actually, um, the start of the pandemic. And it brought up former anorexic behavior that, and anorexic thoughts in particular, that I thought were gone. I thought that those thoughts were sort of buried in the ground, in the past, whatever. But I mean, right. Like, you know, we don't, like humans don't kind of work like that, right? But obviously we, I think we get better at, practicing things that matter to us. I think that we get better at practicing things that we practice.Um, and I also think that we have realizations and are literally our mind and our spirit changes as we have these, as we do these behaviors, and we have these moments of, Oh wow, I did that thing differently and it really blew my mind. And so, but at the end of the day, right, I'm, I'm having this, I'm in, right, we're in the unknown. So, Right. Like, I'm literally the, the start of the pandemic for, for me and I think for a lot of us was, I'm terrified. I don't know what's going to happen and it doesn't seem that anybody else around me who's an authority person, seems to know what's happening. So I went right back to that child place of seeing food as fear objects. I learned as a child that food and abuse were connected, you know, Visa v fat phobia. And in this moment where there's a lot of the same conditions, right? Like I was being brutally emotionally abused as a kid for being fat. And it was obviously destabilizing, terrifying. And this sense that no point of authority was gonna step in and end it. So it's the same conditions, but it's a pandemic. And so I'm, my child brain was like, we just have to stop eating food. It's gonna contaminate us and it's bad and it's wrong and it's scary.And so I was just like, I allowed myself the time to be like, Okay, wow. I'm really surprised that, I mean, again, like this is all about slowing, slowing, slowing down. So like, I'm really surprised about how I'm reacting to this, but it's okay that I'm reacting like this. And then I was like, Okay, Virgie, what we're gonna do is like, I'm like, I hear you and I know that you're having this feeling and I know that you're scared.And I also know, as grown up Virgie, that if you don't eat food, you're gonna get even more anxious. And I know as adult Virgie and little Virgie, you can trust me when I say that food isn't bad and food isn't scary and food isn't going to contaminate us. It's actually really good and it tastes good and it's good for us.And so I just kind of was like, Okay, cool. So we had that pep talk. Amazing. So let's go into the fridge and Virgie, like pick the things that you love the most. Like only pick the things that are like the most delicious right now. It's like, whatever you're really excited about, that's what we're gonna put on the plate. So I let little, again, time to like do that discerning process, time to go through everything in the fridge and all that. Um, and she's like, Well, I want, you know, I think at that, on that, the day that I'm thinking of it was, I think it was mostly cheese and maybe a couple of other things. And then, and then I sat down. I was like, Great job. And here we go. Like, I'm so excited about this meal. It looks really delicious. So we sit down and little Virgie's having a really hard time eating at a normal pace. Eating at the pace that I'm used to eating at, little Virgie is like really? And so I'm just like, It's okay. We can take as long as we need. Like, if we need to take a few hours, that's okay. If we need to take a break, that's okay. The important thing is that we have food in our body and we're taking care of ourselves. So it took a very long time to eat this plate of food. I would normally eat that food in probably like five minutes, something like that. And it took like two hours or something to eat everything on the plate, just because she was really freaked out, you know? And so I was like, All right, like it again, it's just kind of like that sense of like, I know that you're having all, like, you're having all these feelings and this, but we're just gonna like, take our time and we're gonna do this scary thing together because it's the right thing to do. It's the meaningful thing to do. So I think, like, you know, that, I mean obviously that's a very specific example, but I think it's just kind of that it's like that non-judgmental parenting, you know, instinct or, I mean, and it's not even an instinct, right? I mean, We have to learn respectful parenting or like parenting that's about respecting desire and boundaries and stuff like that. Again, I don't have biological kids or any kids. Um, but I'm aware of the school of thought called Respectful Parenting. And I respectfully parent my inner child who has all this stuff going on. Um, and the respectful parenting thing to do would be like, what do you want? What are your limits? But you know, as the grown-up here, who's like looking out for your safety, you can trust me 'cause I've done the work. and I'm gonna tell you that like we need food to have thoughts and to feel okay to have like, you know, have better thoughts and to feel OKLaura: Yeah.Virgie: And so, you know, anyway, so it's like that, that's kinda like an example of what that looked like in that.Laura: Yeah. And I, I really connected with this idea that you of, of like respectful parenting your inner child, and I think there is something to pull out of that in terms of, How we parent our kids around food and bodies. And I want, I wanna kind of come back and talk about that in a second but before we get to that, I, I wondered if it would be okay to go back to something you said right at the beginning and it's around, you know, what you've called, like, the project of, of motherhood and kind of exploring what that's gonna look like and be like for you. And the word that came up right at the beginning was grief and that you're processing that. And I wondered if you'd be comfortable sharing a little bit more around, you know, where you're at with that.Virgie: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, so I spent most of my life largely sort of like pretty comfortable with like, I'm not having kids. And I think there was, there was always a little part of me that was like, hmm, that was aware that this decision was informed to some degree, and I wasn't sure to what degree, by my own childhood and by how poorly I was mothered. And so, you know, I was like, Okay. I was like, okay, at the end of the day, maybe it doesn't really matter to what degree my experience, my childhood experience impacted this decision. Because at the end of the day, like I either have the desire or not, right? Um, and so, and I'm, I'm a believer in that overall philosophy. But I think that as when I turned 40, you know, as I, I think it probably started to happen, you know, really in my mid-thirties where I was starting to sort of, I, I, I noticed there was sort of a part of me that was looking for around me, like conversations about people who had gotten pregnant later in life. Like I started, I sort of started was I was looking for examples of, you know, let's say that I don't, that I don't wanna do this now, but at some point in the next decade, like, are there, do I have people around me who are getting pregnant when they're in their late thirties or their forties? So I started to notice that opening up in me and then when I turned 40 it was like this really interesting, the grief really came in, in a lot of different sort of ways. Like I think the first grief was, the potential that, uh, you know, that this might not, that bio maternity might not happen. And there's a part of me that's kind of sad because it's just sort of a cultural narrative and it's, it's sort of a gender narrative. And I also think the grief came around like still being a bit of a question mark.And I think, like, again, what was fascinating was my whole life I was like, I'm pretty much, I'm between 80 and 95% sure that this is a no for me. And I think that that varying degree of like 5% of doubt, 15, 20% of doubt, I was really comfortable with that because I thought really 80% is quite, is a quite compelling number, and that's your best day. But as I was turning 40, all of a sudden that margin sort of blew up in my mind. I was like, Wow, you know, that 5%, Like that sort of, it went from, I'm 80 to 95% sure that I'm a no to, like, wow. I'm still fine to 20% question mark. Yes. And think that the, the focus shifted from the yes side of the pie to the no side of the pie at 40, because it just sort of felt like the stakes had changed. Um, and I think, frankly, here's another funny part that I just realized. I'm also, so, yeah, again, it's the, the grief is complex. I'm kind of getting into sort of the texture, the motivation for the grief. So I would say another new part of the, a part of the grief that I just learned how to articulate was the grief of not having the option anymore.Laura: This is something like, I have a couple years until I'm 40, but it is definitely something that I think about, you know, that runs through my mind that like the, the, prospect of having anymore kids to just like shutting down and what, what name do we call that or give to that and yeah, how do we work through, um, yeah, the, the grief associated with that. So all of that was to say, like, I resonate with where you're coming from. Virgie: Yeah. I mean, and I think that going deeper into that specific brand of grief, it was like, I was like, Oh, I'm not, I'm grieving that I don't have, I'm grieving this sort of like the ability to postpone the decision that I had in my twenties and I had in my, in most of my thirties. Um, so it's like a very specific loss of not caring. It's like the grief of, the grief of losing, meh. I have, you know, I have a lot more time to think about it. And I think it was specifically also the grief of losing the sense that it was, it was, that I had the choice, you know, like that grief of like the loss of kind of a very specific kind of freedom that's associated with like bio maternity in particular. And so, there's that, and then I got deeper into like, I was like, What else is in here? Like, what other grief are you feeling? And it was really interesting that another part of the grief was actually specifically around being a fat woman in a fat phobic culture where, um, where like I, you know, for most of my life, I felt like a gender imposter, meaning I felt wasn't a quote unquote real woman.And I think that maternity, like, you know, pregnancy and having biological children is a way in our culture that you can affirm your gender if you are a woman. And so I think there was grief around like, You know, basically, basically like letting go of that really important social marker of femininity, which is a pain point for me as a fat woman. So like there's that component where it's like, okay, like what does it look to kind of stand in this decision and know that it's like yet another moment where you're feeling that sense of gender imposter hood or something like that. And then I think that there's other sort of like other, the other parts of the grief are, you know, a lot of them are really, truly, um, I'm, I'm aware that they're socialized. Like, I'm okay, you're grieving because you've been told this is how the story ends. You find a person. Right. And I think specifically as someone who has a lot of trauma, there is a really interesting, um, narrative journey that I think a lot of straight women around me go through where it's like, okay, you had a horrible childhood. You had this like addictive, you know, you had an eating disorder and you had unresolved addiction issues, unresolved mother wounds in your twenties. You go to therapy in your thirties and then of course you find like an amazing, wonderful, well partner. And then you realise after all this that you actually do want to be a mother. It's a very specific and very alluring narrative. And I think the other, another part of the grief for me, and I'm just, this is just me being really, honestly very vulnerable. But another part of it is like, I, I'm aware that I have a narrative in particular as like a fat woman of color. I've been able to kind of create my own career and a meaningful life and a happy life. And like, you know, I, I've, I've been able to do a lot of things frankly, that the culture really values and also breaking all of the rules, you know, And I think that that's a big part of my identity.And then this whole idea that this, like, this sort of, almost like the crown jewel, right? Of kind of, you know, like you're, you're getting what the culture wants, but not on the culture's terms in many ways. Again, I think if you're a straight, cisgender woman and I, and I am, um, that kind of baby piece is like the ultimate and being like, and then I had a baby and I also broke all the rules. And guess what, being a parent isn't hard. And guess what? I don't have to suffer and it isn't isolating. And all the stuff the culture said, that's not true. And this is obviously very, like, I can hear like, this is like my child, my little bratty child voice, right? And so I can hear it. And so like, it's like the, it's like the wounded part of me that's like you rejected me. Well guess what? I got all the stuff you guys are killing yourselves for and I got it my terms. It's like a very, you know, I mean it's like a very specific narrative around, uh, being marginalized and reacting to being pushed out of society. Right? So anyway, like the whole, the child piece is like kind of, you know, I think there is that, that allure to kind of like, You gotta finish the story. The story finishes with you being some kind of radical woods dwelling fairy mom who's like completely defying stereotype and expectation of motherhood and your kid is thriving and they're so happy and you all are so happy. Look at the pictures of you and this well dude that you met in your journey. You guys are like completing the picture of what the culture says success is, but you did it on your terms. And I think like, we're sort of resisting, resisting the allure of that is, um, really difficult. So like the grief of being like, you know, that whole rebel, hurt, hurt, marginalized person, fantasy, just, just like being like, Yeah, but that part doesn't work for me. Like, there's a lot of, there are culturally normative things that I do that I like, you know, like a meaningful relationship, like having a home that I like. These are also culturally normative things that I also happen to want, but this is one of those things where I'm like, this is not something that I want. And so letting go and, and grieving kind of the fact that that, again, that wounded fantasy isn't going to be complete in that very specific way that I'm not going to, you know, have that moment, um, culturally and I mean, frankly, right? Like, I don't even know, again, as a plus size person, as like a plus size woman of color. I'm not sure how many of those, like cultural touchstone moments around like, you know, being pregnant, being visibly pregnant, you know, having a child where I don't even know how much of that would be, in fact mediated by things like cultural and medical fatphobia. Um, because we don't really get to see much of that narrative in the public.So it's like, you know, all that to say like, I don't even know if, like the cultural piece were really motivating me to the point that I was acting on it. I don't know how much of those fantasy, quote unquote moments would even be happening because of the level of fat phobia and racism in our culture, you know?Laura: Yeah. Oh my God, again. Wow. Just knocking my socks off. I do wanna say for the record, Virgie, if for the fact that it weren't a trauma response, I would very much be here for your particular brand of radical parenting . Cause that is something I think the world would be a better place for because there are, as you know, like we were talking about, toxic mom, mommy culture tropes, before we started recording, there's, there are so few options available to people who want to become parents that aren't just, you know, a rehash of the same old story, the same old, you know, thing that has, has been prescribed to us, which is a very narrow portrayal of what parenting and motherhood is or can be. So yeah, like not that that's a good enough reason for you to go and have a kid, but yeah, that would, so that, that's just kind of a side note. But yeah, I'm hearing that the grief is, it's not one specific kind of grief. It's so layered and so textured as to, you know, all of the things that you're sifting through and unpacking.And what I'm, I'm really hearing as well is just you trying to parse out, okay, what is really for me and what I want and in line with my needs and my values and my wants, versus what is a narrative that I have internalized that actually doesn't belong to me and doesn't fit with the life that I am creating for myself.Virgie: Yes, a hundred percent. I mean, and I, I love that kind of, and I think for me also like. There's like, um, like I, I was telling a friend, I was talking to you with a friend about this the other day and um, you know, I was like, Okay, so, you know, if you have a question about whether or not motherhood is something that, I mean, I'm like, I'm someone who's like, does is bio maternity in line with my values, desires, and also my actual physical capabilities, right? Like my actual body can do. And I kind of, and I was like, you know, it was, it was interesting. I was like, Okay, so let's start the negotiation as we're deciphering whether or not, like, as we're sort of parsing through this question, let's start with the matter, the issue of sleep, right? I'm like, okay, I'm someone who's really, I do think that my ability to be the person I am in the way that I am, and like, I think there's certain, even like, I'm also very aware of, for me, sleeping, I mean for all of us. Like I'm very, I'm hyper aware for me that sleeping is very connected to some of the work my body is doing in healing various traumas, and other things that are going on. So I'm like, okay. I actually, I'm, I'm like a 10 to 11 hour sleeper, like I really do feel like my mental health and my quality of life begins to go down very rapidly after just two daysLaura: You are talking to the parent of a two year old right now.Virgie: Yes. I'm like just on that negotiation point alone, like, I'm like, am I willing to do the work to change that? No. Am I willing to make concessions? No. And I'm like, ok, we don't even need to go to any of the other negotiation points. Like we've already ended the negotiation internally. So it was just kinda, I'm just like, I'm thinking about, you know, specifically for me, I'm like, what do I need to be the person that matters to me? Like one of my values is being my best self and being able to enjoy the world fully in that space. And I'm like, that's probably my highest value. It's a higher value than parenting. And so it's just, it's just one of those things where it's like, it doesn't like, you know, I think there's a lot of, romanticism that gets kind of thrown into, and a lot of this is coming from cultural pressure, the romanticism that's sort of culturally produced about like basically the integral role of like the reproductive heterosexual family, to the reproduction of our society as we know it. Right. This is, this is not to say that like I think there are absolutely people for whom parenting is like a genuine, real desire. And or it's a very highly placed value, and I don't wanna de-legitimize that.I think for a lot of people who are on the fence, that what's thrown into the mix is this cultural pressure that is really like, it's really the romanticization of reproductive heterosexuality. And it's like, I think it's important to kind of like when, when you are on the fence to kind of break it down to its barest place. Where does the motivation to romanticize this very specific kind of existence, like, you know, parenting and bio parenting in particular. It really at its cultural core comes from a very fraught legacy and a very fraught idea of like creating a very specific kind of nation and a very specific kind of world. And so, and I, and I mean really con, I mean for me, contextualizing like, like I, you know, the United States, like I live in a culture in which there's a wage gap, in which there's no subsidized medical care in which, um, there's patriarchal norms that pervade how mothers are treated both by their children and by society and by their partner. I still live in a world in which women are the disproportionate, like food providers and caretakers of children. Like I'm literally, I would be entering this fully knowing that like I would be, this is under the context of capitalist hetero patriarchy, which is like a very, it's a compromise I think, and like obviously, All of us are already in this soup. Like I make decisions already, always in this soup. I think what matters is, like, what I'm thinking about is this for me, and I'm not sure, it's important for me to kind of recognize like, where am I getting gaslit about this issue? Where is the stickiness? Where is my pain point? And really going deep in that, like, why, what am I afraid of? And then just kind of going because, because, because, because I'm afraid of this, because this, I'm afraid of this because this, I'm afraid of this because this, and what really it comes down to, I think for, for me in particular, and my therapist is like, Would you do it if you were on a deserted island? Because if you, if you wouldn't do it on a deserted island, then that means it's cultural influence. It's probably like really in the mix here,Laura: That's such, is such a good like that. It's so simple. But that's such a great way of thinking about it and helping parse this out. And also I want your therapist number.Virgie: Yes. I mean, I love, I love the deserted island test of like all desires. But, yeah, I mean, I think like, and I think that there's a, there's a big question about desire and consent in all of it, right? And I think like, I, I mean, I don't, like, for instance, I don't know that if we lived in a less patriarchal culture or if we lived, if I lived in a country with subsidized medical care, if I wouldn't have a different decision or if I lived in a country that had like, or a world where there was less fat phobia, like all of these things are sort of floating around. And I think it's very specific to say in this very specific context, in this moment in time, considering what I know about the world and myself, this is where I land. And I think that that's a very grounded way to kind of approach a decision that you're not a hundred percent into. You know what I mean?Laura: Yeah, no, I, like, I, I'm, I kind of wish that we'd had this conversation like three years ago, . Not that it, not that it has changed my mind about having a child, but, what feels so kind of vital to me are conversations that kind of reinforce this idea that you can be a whole complete person, you know, with or without a child. Right. In both directions. Because I think there is also, you know, that narrative that when you have a kid. And, and some of it is true because of, of cultural programming that you have to give so much of yourself to the child that you don't get to have your own identity anymore or your identity gets reduced down to mother, which, you know, that's a whole thing in and of, in and of itself. There was something else. I was gonna say Virgie, but I've, I've.Virgie: No, we've covered so much ground. I think the last thing I wanna share that's like, I think just, just like a life tip, um, it's like, it's like, you know, I made the decision a long time ago because I think another big question mark in the conversation of motherhood for people who are, you know, having that questioning moment, um, really is like, will I regret the decision? And I basically, one of my, one of my life rules which I adopted many years ago, is never make decisions based on the anticipation of an emotion in the future that you may or may not have. So never make decisions based on anticipatory regret. That's like one of my, and honestly, right? Like, it has liberated me in so many areas of my life because that's such a cultural trope of like, you're gonna regret if you, if you do that thing, you're gonna regret it. Right? Like, and I, I really feel like there's this kind of almost, I mean, it really is almost like a religious shame induced, like kind of, um, Kind of like, I'm like, you should not be moti, you should not be making major life decisions based on a future self that you don't know, based on an emotion that you may or may not have. And so like that, that's a, that's a big one for me. Like that that one is like, um, I just wanted to put that out there as like, I just don't, don't make decisions based on the anticipation of regret. TheLaura: What you are basically telling is everyone is get the tattoo, dye your hair, do theVirgie: I meanLaura: Do the thing that you are wanting to do. Virgie, this has been incredible. There's, there's one other thing, there's one other like, sneak question, but hopefully it's a fun one to answer. Which is, what are you snacking on right now? And that can be a literal snack. It can be just something that you're really into at the moment. A book, a TV show, a podcast, like a thing, like anything. What are you kind of into right now that, like a recommendation that you wanna share? Virgie: Well, I mean, I'm basically like, I'm in, I'm so into fall and it's October right now, so I'm like snacking on anything fall like, so, like if it has a spice blend that includes like cinnamon or pumpkin or apples. I went apple picking the other day. And what's funny that apple picking is that you end up getting a lot of apples and you have to, and it's like, wow. I'm just like making, it's like, it's like another, another batch of apples, apple cinnamon muffins, you know, like, and so it's been so fun to basically have like this basket full of apples to make like endless amounts of spicy apple muffins. Um, so I feel like that's the thing. I've been snacking on so many muffins and so many like fall inspired muffins.And then I'm excited about something. I'm gonna like give one more thing, which like thing that I'm excited about snacking on is, This week I'm going to a spooky bakes little party. We're gonna watch Halloween Baking Championship and bring our spooky bakes, and I'm making like aLaura: Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. You're going to watch what?Virgie: It's called Halloween Baking Championship. It's so good. It's so fun.Laura: Oh my God. Is it like, is it, Is it on Netflix? Netflix. Do, can I watch it here?Virgie: Well here, it's on Prime.Laura: Oh, Prime. Okay.Virgie: Amazon Prime. Yeah.Laura: I generally don't condone anything to do with Jeff, Jeff Bezos, but I do have Prime.Virgie: Yes. Oh, I know. I mean, maybe you can get it from some other outlet, but it's really fun if you like Halloween and they have like all these creepy cakes and it's so good. So I'm making like a witch hand with like, with like cake pop eyeballs. And I'm going to be snacking on thatLaura: Oh my God. I wanna see pictures of that. First of all, I'm gonna link to that in the show notes if you've made it in time for this episode to come out. That sounds amazing. Okay, so my snack is gonna sound really, gonna sound pretty sad in person. It was also a little snack, but it was, so I don't think you're gonna get these in the US but, I found these, like they're basically honeycomb dipped in chocolate and, um, they're by Doisy and Dam and they're, for anyone who's like, has any allergies or is vegan, then they're a good option cuz they don't have any milk in them. I think they maybe have soy, but apart from that, they don't have any other allergens. And like I, they're just new and I tried them the other day and they were delicious, so that was gonna be my thing. But they, um, cake pop eyeballs sound way better. So let's go with that.Virgie: Ooh. But I love, I love a chocolate dipped honeycomb, this kind of, Yeah, yummy. I mean, I feel like my introduction of this was like in New Zealand where there's just a lot of honey products. Yeah.Laura: Um, yes. Yeah. And what I like about it as well is like, and this is like, just like a thing that I, that I have where, um, I like, like snack bag kind of like, sizes of chocolate. So there's like another one that's like all these like mini peanut butter cups that has just come out, that's a Pip & Nut one.Like this was a very good week for new chocolate in the UK. Um, so that you can like, you know, you can just like grab a couple of pieces, rather than opening a bar and then like dealing with the folding up of the bar and all of that stuff, like, I like the grab bag option and you can just dip in and out of it. That's my vibe.Virgie: Ooh. Yes. I love a snack bag. Yes. Grab bag,Laura: Yes. Okay. Virgie for the, like 1% of listeners who don't know, because really you are an icon in the body liberation space. So, but yes, tell us where we can find you and get more of you.Virgie: Yes, um, I am, I have a website, virgietovar.com. I'm also really active on Instagram @virgietovar. I have a podcast called Rebel Eaters Club, which you can find anywhere you get podcasts. We have three seasons, so you can just sort of do some, like, fun listening for a couple days or spread it out however you want. And we basically talk about, well, it's like a food-positive, fat-positive show about ending patriarchy one corn dog at a time, and I also have a column at forbes.com where I write about plus size fashion and also how to end weight discrimination at work. And I have, there's a few self-guided online classes that I've co-written with some amazing people. If you're interested in any of that, it's all virgietovar.com. You can find all my books and stuff like that. My most recent book came out earlier this year and it's called The Body Positive Journal. It has stickers, it has cute, like larger body people doing cute, fun things. And it's some of my, it's like about developing some of my favourite tools in changing our relationship to food and body.Laura: Yes, and I'm so excited to include that in an upcoming, like I've been doing roundups of books, like Body affirming books for different age groups and I'm, that one is gonna be top of the list for teens, so I can't wait for that. Um, Virgie, I'm gonna link to everything that you talked about in the show notes, like all the places to find you and your social media and all of that stuff. But thank you so much. Like totally unexpected conversation, but loved every second of it. And yeah, just really love you. So thank you for being here.Virgie: Oh, thank you for having me.OUTRO:Laura Thomas: Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of Can I Have Another Snack? If you enjoyed this episode, please take a moment to rate and review in your podcast player and head over to laurathomas.substack.com for the full transcript of this conversation, plus links we discussed in the episode and how you can find out more about this week's guest. While you're over there, consider signing up for either a free or paid subscription Can I Have Another Snack? newsletter, where I'm exploring topics around bodies, identity and appetite, especially as it relates to parenting. Also, it's totally cool if you're not a parent, you're welcome too. We're building a really awesome community of cool, creative and smart people who are committed to ending the tyranny of body shame and intergenerational transmission of disordered eating. Can I Have Another Snack? is hosted by me, Laura Thomas, edited by Joeli Kelly, our funky artwork is by Caitlin Preyser. And the music is by Jason Barkhouse. And lastly Fiona Bray keeps me on track and makes sure this episode gets out every week. This episode wouldn't be possible without your support. So thank you for being here and valuing my work and I'll catch you next week. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit laurathomas.substack.com/subscribe

Virgie Tovar is an author, activist, & one of the nation's leading experts and lecturers on weight-based discrimination and body image. Click here for the full show notes! In this conversation we talk about: Virgie's personal body image story- how being called ‘fat' when she was 5 years old influenced her relationship with herself for the next 15+ years. How the primal desire for love and safety influences diet culture. Key pieces to consider for shifting the cultural narrative around food and body. How celebrating food and body can be as detrimental as shaming them, and what to aim for instead. Her body acceptance process and entry into fat activism. Virgie's first few years in business- how she used her curiosity and commitment to say ‘YES' to catapult her career. Living and working as a creative person. Some of the key pieces for building a successful business from landing a book deal to leading a TED Talk and beyond. Her love for fashion- how style played a role through her body image journey from hiding, to rebellion, and now deep authentic expression. The importance of trusting your body and the choices you make for yourself to live a fulfilling life. Psst! Grab your free Body Acceptance Starter Kit HERE.

Virgie Tovar – author, activist, and expert in weight-based discrimination – has taken her body back from a fatphobic society and is feeling the sun on her stomach once again. Join us as we talk to Virgie about the history of fatphobia, its impact on gender expression and the ever-changing beauty standard. Listen now!

Embodiment for the Rest of Us - Season 2, Episode 7: Jennifer Radke   Chavonne (she/her) and Jenn (she/her) interviewed Jenn Radke (she/her) about her embodiment journey.    Jennifer Radke is the host of the podcast, Fat Girl Book Club, and a podcasting coach. Her body image journey started with sneaking cookie dough out of the deep freezer at the age of eight, moved through a bunch of different diets, at least three goal weight celebrations, two bodybuilding competitions and culminated in an eating disorder. When she finally figured out that she would never diet her way to self-love, she started reading. As she read, so many things began to fall into place and now her focus is on using the podcast to help others see that their body is something to cherished and loved.    Social Media:  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fatgirlbookclubpod/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063705813357 Fat Girl Book Club can be found on your podcast listening app of choice Podcasting Website: https://www.fearlesspodcasting.co   The captions for this episode can be found at: https://embodimentfortherestofus.com/season-2/season-2-episode-7-jenn-radke/#captions/   Content Warning: discussion of privilege, discussion of diet culture, discussion of eating disorders and disordered eating, mention of mental health struggles, discussion of ableism, discussion of co opting of BIPOC practices, discussion of healthism, discussion of weight loss surgery    Trigger Warnings: 5:06: Jenn R. discusses her eating disorder history  9:46: Jenn R. uses the word “crazy” in a way that may be ableist  10:21: Jenn R. discusses Lindo Bacon's work before more awareness of the harm that they have caused in their work came to light in the first two weeks of March 2022 here, here, here, and here among others (with updates here and here) (this episode was recorded in early March 2022)  25:43: Jenn R. discusses Virgie Tovar and her work (this author is now known to have caused harm to superfat and infinifat people, so there is no link to her work)  33:15: Jenn R. shares her experience with fitness magazines and body comparison  37:37: Jenn R. discusses Lindo Bacon's work before more awareness of the harm that they have caused (see note above)  37:57: Jenn R. discusses Caroline Dooner and her work (this author is now known to have caused harm due to her anti-vaxx stance and overall racist rhetoric, so there is no link to their work)  46:00: Jenn J. discusses Marilyn Manson and their book (this author is now known to have caused harm to intimate partners, so there is no link to their work)  51:31: Chavonne discusses Lindo Bacon's work before more awareness of the harm that they have caused (see note above)  52:52: Chavonne discusses Anita Johnston and her work (this author's book is now known to have caused harm due to its weight stigma, so there is no link to their work)  1:03:10: Jenn R. discusses weight loss surgery  1:05:08: Jenn J. discusses the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics' Evidence Analysis Library  1:14:03: Jenn J. discusses Lindo Bacon's work before more awareness of the harm that they have caused (see note above)  A few highlights:  4:31: Jenn R. shares her understanding of embodiment and her own embodiment journey  16:13: Jenn R. discusses their understanding of “the rest of us” and how she is a part of that, as well as her privileges  31:14 Jenn R. shares how reading or bibliotherapy can help those moving toward embodiment  57:14: Jenn R. discusses how hosting a podcast about, by, and for fat people has enhanced her connection with embodiment  1:03:51 : Jenn R. discusses where HAES® and IE fall short  1:20:23: Jenn R. shares how listeners can make a difference based on this conversation  1:25:21: Jenn R. discusses where to be found and what's next for her  Links from this episode:  Ableism Absolute Fat vs. Relative Fat Belly of the Beast Big Big Love Big Fit Girl The Body Is Not An Apology Body of Truth Deb Burgard Decolonizing Wellness Dietland Don't Let It Get You Down FGBC Episode with Amanda Murphy FGBC Episode with Maggie Landes, MD FGBC Episode with Shadoe Ball 1 FGBC Episode with Shadoe Ball 2 The Fat Lady Sings Fatness Spectrum Fattily Ever After Fitness for Every Body Hanne Blank Happy Fat Health At Every Size® (HAES®) (especially the FAQ for the origin of the HAES movement)  Hunger Intuitive Eating Intuitive Eating (the book) Killer Fat (TW: full title has the “O word”) Dr. Lisa Folden Lucy Aphramor My Mother's Body Poodle Science Shadoe Ball Social Determinants of Health Sonya Renee Taylor Spoon Theory Tiana Dodson Train Happy Unashamed Music: “Bees and Bumblebees (Abeilles et Bourdons​)​, Op. 562” by Eugène Dédé through the Creative Commons License    Please follow us on social media:  Website: embodimentfortherestofus.com Twitter: @embodimentus Instagram: @embodimentfortherestofus

Today, we are going to hear what it's like being a medic at a favorite summer destination, Great America. Then, we speak with author Judy Juanita about joining the Black Panther Party in the 60s. And, we'll hear readings from three San Francisco authors: Beth Winegarner, Virgie Tovar, and Jodi Klein.

The post Rebroadcast: You Have the Right to Remain Fat with Virgie Tovar appeared first on Seven Health: Intuitive Eating and Anti Diet Nutritionist.

This week's conversation is with Virgie Tovar: author, activist and one of the nation's leading experts on weight-based discrimination and body image. She holds a Master's degree in Sexuality Studies with a focus on the intersections of body size, race and gender. She is a contributor for Forbes and she's written several books. Her podcast, Rebel Eaters Club, is now in Season 3 and is Transmitter Media's first original production. Virgie has been featured by the New York Times, BBC, MTV, Al Jazeera, NPR, and many more. Part 2 features the end of our over-two-hour Zoom conversation as well as clips from previous conversations and a special guest, our mutual friend Isabel Foxen Duke.If you missed Part 1 last week, be sure to tune in: Virgie and I cover dressing rooms, letting go of a normative timeline, control, markers of success, happiness research, and more. Show Notes:- Follow Virgie on the Web | Instagram- Check out Virgie's Books | Podcast: Rebel Eaters Club- Take the friendship breakup survey from me and Kayleen Schaefer here- The Let It Out Kits are 32% off with the code 32- Sign up for the waitlist for the re-imagined Creative Underdogs/In Process (coming soon)!- Subscribe to our newsletter to get show notes + essays, etc. sent to your inbox- Follow @letitouttt on Instagram. I'm @katiedalebout- Let It Out is looking for a paid editing intern! Email me at katie@letitouttt.com if you're interested in applying or know anyone who might be interested! If you liked this episode, try out:Episodes 367 & 368: Seasons of Overwhelm with Christy HarrisonEpisode 385: In the Weeds: Herbalist Vanessa Chakour on Our Earthly Bodies Sponsors:Magic Mind: I started drinking these little green productivity shots and I love them so much. For 40% off a subscription or 20% off a single purchase, go to magicmind.co/letitout and use code LETITOUT20 at checkout!

This week's conversation is with Virgie Tovar: author, activist and one of the nation's leading experts on weight-based discrimination and body image. She holds a Master's degree in Sexuality Studies with a focus on the intersections of body size, race and gender. She is a contributor for Forbes and she's written several books. Her podcast, Rebel Eaters Club, is now in Season 3 and is Transmitter Media's first original production. Virgie has been featured by the New York Times, BBC, MTV, Al Jazeera, NPR, and many more. We met a few years ago through our mutual friend Isabel Foxen Duke and I'm lucky to call her a friend. This is her second appearance on the podcast. We recorded a conversation last summer and I've been eager to talk to her again ever since. We talked over Zoom for two hours and our conversation covered dressing rooms, letting go of a normative timeline, control, markers of success, happiness research, and more. Show Notes:- Follow Virgie on the Web | Instagram- Check out Virgie's Books | Podcast: Rebel Eaters Club- David Foster Wallace's "This Is Water" speech at Kenyon College- The Vox podcast episode I mention about sea shells & mollusks- Take the friendship breakup survey from me and Kayleen Schaefer here- The Let It Out Kits are 32% off with the code 32- Sign up for the waitlist for the re-imagined Creative Underdogs/In Process (coming soon)!- Subscribe to our newsletter to get show notes + essays, etc. sent to your inbox- Follow @letitouttt on Instagram. I'm @katiedalebout If you liked this episode, try out:Episodes 367 & 368: Seasons of Overwhelm with Christy Harrison Sponsors:Magic Mind: I started drinking these little green productivity shots and I love them so much. For 40% off a subscription or 20% off a single purchase, go to magicmind.co/letitout and use code LETITOUT20 at checkout!

Signe talks to Virgie Tovar about why anger is an integral part of self-acceptance, boundaries as the most powerful B-word, tips for bad body image days (BBIDs) and body positivity as a relationship value. Virgie Tovar is an author, activist and one of the nation's leading experts and lecturers on weight-based discrimination and body image. She holds a Master's degree in Sexuality Studies with a focus on the intersections of body size, race and gender. She is a contributor for Forbes where she covers the plus-size market and how to end weight discrimination at work. Tovar is the author of You Have the Right to Remain Fat,The Self-Love Revolution: Radical Body Positivity for Girls of Color, her new book The Body Positive Journal, and she's the host of the Rebel Eaters Club podcast, just starting season 3. Virgie has been featured by the New York Times, Tech Insider, BBC, MTV, Al Jazeera, NPR, Yahoo Health and the San Francisco Chronicle. She lives in San Francisco. To learn more about Virgie Tovar, visit https://www.virgietovar.com

On the internet, body shaming is alive and well, nutrition advice can be wildly inaccurate, and it's a lot easier to scroll through Instagram for hours than to get up and go for a run. But Danielle Friedman, who literally https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/645493/lets-get-physical-by-danielle-friedman/ (wrote the book) on women's fitness, says there's one extremely good thing that social media has done for our bodies, which we shouldn't ignore. "Body acceptance activist Virgie Tovar told me that social media has given a voice to the people who have always been the majority in number, but not in influence," Danielle says. "You don't have to go through all of the traditional channels to be visible. You can just start posting selfies and find an audience and build an audience that way. And I know it's easier said than done, but in spending years researching this history, that is a significant shift." Today on Follow Friday, Danielle talks about what else she learned while researching https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/645493/lets-get-physical-by-danielle-friedman/ (Let's Get Physical: How Women Discovered Exercise and Reshaped the World). And she opens up about four of her favorite people she follows online: Someone who she just started following: Katie Sturino, @katiesturino on https://www.tiktok.com/@katiesturino/ (TikTok) and https://www.instagram.com/katiesturino/ (Instagram) Someone who makes her laugh: 70s Dinner Party, https://www.instagram.com/70sdinnerparty/ (@70sdinnerparty) on Instagram and https://twitter.com/70s_party (@70s_party) on Twitter Someone who makes her think: Laura McLaws Helms, https://www.instagram.com/laurakitty/ (@laurakitty) on Instagram Someone who makes the internet a better place: Jessamyn Stanley, @mynameisjessamyn on https://www.instagram.com/mynameisjessamyn/ (Instagram) and https://www.tiktok.com/@mynameisjessamyn (TikTok), https://twitter.com/JessamynStan (@JessamynStan) on Twitter, and https://www.youtube.com/c/JessamynStanley/videos (@JessamynStanley) on YouTube Thank you to our amazing patrons: Jon, Justin, Amy, Yoichi, Elizabeth, Sylnai, and Matthias. On https://www.patreon.com/followfriday (our Patreon page), you can pledge any amount of money to get access to Follow Friday XL — our members-only podcast feed with exclusive bonus follows. That feed has an extended-length version of this interview in which Danielle talks about someone who's an expert in a very specific niche she loves: Dr. Natalia Mehlman Petrzela. Also: Follow Danielle https://www.instagram.com/DanielleFriedmanWrites/ (@daniellefriedmanwrites) on Instagram and https://twitter.com/DFriedmanWrites (@DFriedmanWrites) on Twitter Follow us @FollowFridayPod on https://twitter.com/followfridaypod (Twitter) and https://www.instagram.com/followfridaypod/ (Instagram) Follow Eric https://twitter.com/HeyHeyESJ (@heyheyesj) on Twitter This show is a production of Lightningpod.fm, hosted and produced by Eric Johnson Music: https://www.fiverr.com/yonamarie (Yona Marie) Show art: https://www.fiverr.com/dodiihr (Dodi Hermawan) Social media producer: Sydney Grodin

Summer Innanen is a professionally trained coach specializing in body image, self-worth, and confidence. She helps people all over the world to stop living behind the numbers on their scales through her private and group coaching at summerinnanen.com. She is the best-selling author of Body Image Remix: Embrace your body and unleash the fierce confident woman within and the creator of the flagship You, On Fire – an online group coaching program dedicated to helping people break out of the diet culture cage, get free from body shame and live life on their own terms so they can wear, say and do what they want. She is the host of Eat The Rules, a podcast dedicated to anti-dieting, body image, intersectional feminism, and empowering people to live life on their own terms, where she has interviewed leading body image and anti-diet experts and activists such as Isabel Foxen Duke, Virgie Tovar, Chrissy King, and Ragen Chastain. She has been featured in Refinery29, FabUplus Magazine, The Huffington Post, Beautiful Magazine, and featured on several chart-topping podcasts including, Food Psych, Listen to Your Body, and The F*ck It Diet Podcast. She lives in Vancouver, BC Canada with her husband and toddler son. On this episode of the Food Junkies podcast, we bring you Clarissa's BEST FRIEND from high school, Summer Innanen, to talk about all things body image, body neutrality, and healing from body dissatisfaction. Summer is the best-selling author of Body Image Remix, host of the podcast Eat The Rules, and creator of You, On Fire – an online group coaching program dedicated to helping people get free from body shame. She also co-runs the Body Image Coach Certification program helping anti-diet professionals learn to work with clients around body image.  Growing up, and in high school, Clarissa and Summer both had body image issues but Clarissa doesn't remember talking about it or sharing any deep conversations about what they thought of themselves. After high school, we both began an unhealthy and disordered relationship with food where we struggled with weight, diets, and the societal pressures to be thin. Even at their thinnest they still hated our bodies.  Today Summer shares her personal journey to body image recovery and healing. She shares how body image develops, how diet trauma affects us, perfectionism, why we are always comparing ourselves to others, and how we must let go of the relentless pursuit of thinness and free ourselves by rejecting the rules and reclaiming our power. How changing the way you feel about your body isn't actually about liking the way you look.  Clarissa and Summer have different stories of healing and recovery with food. While Clarissa's includes being abstinent from addictive foods, Summer's lead her to an intuitive eating approach where she stopped trying to makeover her plate and start making over what was going on inside her head. Just because we don't eat the same way doesn't mean we can't heal the same way when it comes to transforming the way we see ourselves and igniting our hope, our power, and shifting our outlook on life. So in this episode, we don't talk about the food, we talk about the thoughts and feelings about ourselves that often lead us to EAT THE DRUG FOODS to drown out the noise and numb out.  Follow Summer: Website Podcast: Eat the Rules Instagram: @summerinnanen Facebook Twitter The content of our show is educational only. It does not supplement or supersede the professional relationship and direction of your healthcare provider. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified mental health providers with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition, substance use disorder, or mental health concern.

Hello, Hello! In this episode, we have a conversation with the Founder and Executive Director of the AV Film Festival (formerly the Alexander Valley Film Festival). We talk about Sean Baker, why we can and can't forgive others and ourselves, Phillip Seymour Hoffman, how artists channel pain to make great art, and how love became the deciding factor in her life's biggest decisions, “thin privilege,” and all things AV Film Fest. Enjoy! Listen+Subscribe+Rate = Love Questions or Comments? Reach out to us at contact@bonsai.film or on social and the web at https://linktr.ee/BonsaiCreative Love Indie Film? Love the MAKE IT Podcast? Become a True Fan! www.bonsai.film/truefans www.makeit.libsyn.com/podcast #MAKEIT   More on Kathryn Hecht   Kathryn (she/her) is responsible for AVFilm's overall strategic, financial, management, fundraising, and operational health. Working closely with the founding Board, Kathryn designed and developed the year-round cultural and educational programming for AVFilm and continues to serve as the Executive Producer of the annual AVFest.   A seasoned entrepreneur, executive leader, and community builder, Kathryn built and led communications departments for nonprofits in New York and San Francisco before founding AVFilm. She currently serves as the Chair of the Economic Development Board of Sonoma County. She was selected by the Press Democrat in 2016 as one of 30 Women to Watch in Sonoma County.   Kathryn received the 2018 Boho Award from The Bohemian and the 2018 Spirit of Sonoma Award from the Cloverdale Chamber of Commerce. Writer and activist Virgie Tovar also featured her as a "lady boss" in Forbes.   Facebook - @kathrynphecht Instagram - @kathrynphecht Twitter - @kathrynphecht   Upcoming project - AVFest 2022, April 29-May 8, and a capital campaign in Healdsburg to create a home for AVFilm and home base for the preservation of cinematic tradition in Northern Sonoma County.

Virgie was a guest on another show we think you'll enjoy: Your Magic. And we have an update on Season 3!Asking for help is not a sign of weakness — it's a sign of strength. In this episode of Your Magic, activist, speaker, teacher, and writer Virgie Tovar joins host Michelle Tea for a conversation about the magic of science, the dangers of diet culture, and the power of pleasure. Then, Bran Taylor helps us turn our emotions into powerful energy for change with a spell.