Podcasts about barrett honors college

Steve Pearlman: Today on actual intelligence, we have a very important and timely discussion with Dr. Robert Neber of a SU, whose recent opinion piece in inside higher education is titled AI and Higher Ed, and an impending collapse. Robert is a teaching professor and honors faculty fellow at the Barrett Honors College at a SU.And the reason that I invited him to speak with us today on actual intelligence is his perspective on artificial intelligence and education. And his contention roughly that higher Ed's rush to embrace artificial intelligence is going to lead us to some rather troubling places. So let's get to it with Dr.Robert Niebuhr.Robert. We talked a little bit about this on our pre-call, and I don't usually start a podcast like this, but what you said to me was so striking, so, uh, nauseating. So infuriating that I think it's a good place to begin and maybe some of [00:01:00] our listeners who value actual intelligence will also find it as appalling as I do, or at least a point of interest that needs to be talked about.You were in a meeting and we're not gonna talk about exactly, necessarily what that meeting was, but you're in a meeting with a number of other. Faculty members and something interesting arose, and I'll allow you to share that experience with us and we'll use that as a springboard for this discussion.Robert Neibuhr: Yeah, sure. Uh, so obviously, as you can imagine, right, I mean, faculty are trying to cope with, um, a perceived notion that students are using AI to create essays. And, and, uh, you know, in, in the, where I'm at, you know, one of the backbones, um, in my unit to. Um, assessed work is looking at argumentative essays.So the, the sort of, the idea that, that this argumentative essay is a backbone of a, of a grade and assessment. Um, and if we're, if we're suspecting that they're, they're using ai, um, you [00:02:00] know, faculty said, well, why should we bother grading essays if they're written by bots? Um, and, and you know, I mean, there's a lot, there's a lot to unpack there and a lot of things that are problematic with that.Um, but yeah, the, the, the idea that, you know, we, we don't have to, to combat a, to combat the perceived threat of, of student misuse of ai, we just will forego critical assessment. Um, that, that was, you know, not a lone voice in the room. That that seemed to be something that was, that was reasonably popular.Steve Pearlman: Was there any recognition of what might be being sacrificed by not ever having students write another essay just to avoid them using ai, which of course we don't want them to just have essays write, uh, so of course we don't want them to just have AI write their essays. That's not getting us anywhere.But was there any conception that there might be some loss in terms of that policy? [00:03:00]Robert Neibuhr: I mean, I, I think, I think so. I mean, I, I imagine, uh, you know, I think. My colleagues come from, from a place where, where they're, they're trying to figure out and, and cope with a change in reality. Right? But, um, there, there is also a subtext, I think across, across faculties in the United States of being overworked.And, and especially with the mantra among, you know, administration of, you know, AI will help us ramp up or scale up our, our class sizes and we can do more and we can. All this sort of extra stuff that it would seem like faculty would be, um, you know, more of their time and, and more of their effort, you know, as an ask here that I think that's, that, that may be, that may have been part of it.Um, I, I, I don't know that the idea of like the logical implication of this, that, you know, if we no longer. Exercise students' brains if we no longer have them go through a process that encourages critical [00:04:00] thinking and art, you know, articulating that through writing, like what that means. I, I don't know that they sort of thought it beyond like, well, you know, this could be, we could try it and see was kind of the mentality that I, I sort of gauged from, from the room.But, uh, it's, I mean, it's a bigger problem, right? I think the, the, the larger aspect of. What do we, what do we do? What can we do as faculty in this sort of broad push for AI all over the place? And then the idea of the mixed messages. Students get right. Students get this idea, well, this is the future. If you don't learn how to, how to use it, if you don't, you know, understand it, you're gonna be left behind.And then at the same time, it's like, well, don't use it from my class. Right? Learn it, but don't use it here. And that's. That's super unclear for students and it's, it's unclear for faculty too, right? So, um, it, it's one of those things that it's not, um, I don't think in the short term it works. And as you, as you, as you implied, right, the long term solution here of getting rid of essay [00:05:00] assignments in, in a discussion based seminar that relies on essays as a critical, I mean, this is not a viable solution, right?We, we got the entire purpose of, of the program in this case.Steve Pearlman (2): And yet a lot of faculty from what you described and a lot of what I've read as well, is also moving towards having AI be able to grade. The students work not just on simple tests, but on essays. And as you point out in your article, that's potentially moving us to a place where kids are using AI to write the essays, and then faculty are using AI to grade the essays.And who, when did the human being get involved in between, in terms of any intellectual growth?Robert Neibuhr: Yeah. No, it, it's, I think it's a, it's, it's really, it's a, it's a really big, it's a really big problem because, um. Again, those long-term implications, uh, are, are clear as, as, as you laid out. But, um, it's also, I mean, like, again, like this notion that [00:06:00] there's, there's a tool that obviously can help us, you know, multiple avenues where AI can be, can be something that's, that's helps us be more efficient and all this, those sort of stuff that, that's, that's, that's true.Um, so it's, it's there. So we should gauge and understand it. Um, but it doesn't mean you just use it everywhere. You know, you, you can buy, I don't know, you can buy alcohol at the grocery store. It doesn't mean you have it with your Cheerios, right? I mean, there's a, there's a time and place polite society says, you know, you can consume this at these times with these meals or in this company, right?It's not all, all of this. So things, so, you know, the message that I think it's a level of respect, right? If we, we don't respect the students, if we don't lay out clear guidelines and. We don't show them respect, we don't ask for respect back if, if we use bots to grade and the whole thing just becomes a charade.And, and I, I think the, again, the system [00:07:00] begins to, to break down and I think people wind up losing the point of what the exercise is all about anyway. And I, I may not just the assignment or the class, but like higher education. Right. I mean, the, the, the point is to. Teach us how to be better thinkers to, to gauge, evaluate information, uh, you know, use evidence, uh, apply it in our lives as, as we see fit.And, and if it's, and if we're not prepped for that, then, then what did they prep us for? If, if, you know, the student's perspective, it's like, well, what did I just do? What did I pay for? That's, that's a, that's a huge long term problemSteve Pearlman (2): it seems like. Uh. That, what did I pay for? Question is gonna come to bear heavily on higher education in the near future because if students are able to use AI to accomplish some of their work, and if faculty are using AI to grade some of their [00:08:00] work and so on, and then the, you know, the, these degrees are costing hundreds of thousands of dollars.And it's an effectual piece of paper that maybe that loses value in essence also because the students didn't really get anything from that process or get as much as they used to because they're using ai. You know, is this moving towards some kind of gross reassessment of the value of higher education or its role in our society entirely?Robert Neibuhr: I mean, it it, I think it certainly. It certainly has the potential, right? I mean, I would, I would even look back and, and think of a, a steady decline, right? That this is, this is one of, of many pieces that have gone, gone down. And I, you know, I mean mentioning in, in your, in your question just now, right? That the sense of, you know, students as client or customer, uh, how that has changed the sort of the, the interface and, and [00:09:00] how, you know.Uh, we, we think of this, uh, this whole, this whole endeavor, right? I mean, um, and, you know, and this leads to things like, oh, retention numbers and, and all these sort of things that the mental gymnastics that happens to, um, you know, do all these things and, and the truth be told, right? Different paths for different people, right?There's not, you know, there's not a single, like, you don't have to get the degree in physics to be as successful, but the, the student as, as, as customer, I think also has, um. Solidified this, this notion, um, that we can le list the student feedback, right? And, and student feedback is important. So I'll qualify that that standards were, were low.I, I know for my own example, you know, even 20 years ago, right, that that undergraduates would have to produce a capstone thesis as part of their bachelor's degree. And I know firsthand that at from the time that, you know, [00:10:00] the history department had looked at, um, exit surveys of people who didn't finish their history degree.And they said, well, why didn't you finish your history degree? I said, oh, well, you know, I, whatever the program was, psychology, sociology, doesn't matter, whatever the other degree was. That degree program didn't require a thesis. So that was. That was easier, right? That was the student saying, you know what, I'm gonna opt out of the hard work and I'm gonna take, take this other one.And so the history department's answer kind of like the we'll stop grading essays was, we won't, we won't require a thesis anymore that'll stem the tide of our losses. Of course it didn't. Right? 'cause they're larger things going on and, and you know, some of it's internal, some of it's external and out of, out of, you know, history departments, you know, control.Um. But I, I think part of, part of this also then sort of, you know, cuts this, this notion of the rhetoric in the last, at least two decades of [00:11:00] college is your ticket to a successful career. Like, and it's just quantifiable, right? I mean, there's no doubt that, you know, if you have a college degree, your lifetime earnings will be such and such amount higher than, right?So there's, there's clear evidence there. There's, there's, there's tangible things, but that's become degraded, I think. To, to a, a simple binary like, oh, my piece of paper gets me this. And, and I think that mentality has been sort of seeping in. And I think this is kind of where, um, some of these things are, are coming from.Like it is just a piece of paper. I don't have to worry about, you know, what skillset I get in higher ed because I'm gonna learn on the job anyway. Uh, or I don't, like, students will say, I don't see this as valuable to what I'm gonna do. So it's, it's as kind of said the reckoning long term, like upending, the higher ed.I mean, I, I think as some of these questions linger and, and, and simmer and, and costs get higher and, you know, [00:12:00] parents get more, you know, upset and, and, and students with their loans. I mean, I, I, I can't see going in, in perpetuity in the direction that it's, it's going with or without ai, but I think AI maybe speeds this up.Steve Pearlman (2): In a sense, I see this as an extension of Goodheart's Law, which is that if we just focus on the measurement, then the thing that we're measuring becomes inval or valueless to us, uh, because the measurement becomes the value. And I see that happening with ai, right? The goal is to create a paper that gets an a, it doesn't matter if I use AI to do it, because I've achieved the goal, right?The, the, the outcome that I want. I've satisfied Good Heart's law. I have produced the outcome and the measurement has been achieved. I haven't learned to write a paper or think for myself or put a sentence together, but I've nevertheless achieved the outcome, and that seems true from both perspectives.There's the student perspective, which is that I've produced the paper, I've gone through a series of [00:13:00] steps that have made the paper happen. I didn't write it, but I used AI to do it in a worst case scenario and presented it, and then it happens from the teacher's perspective, which is that whether or not AI grades it.They have, in fact, nevertheless produced the artifact that I need to assess and achieve the assessment and everybody's happy. Uh, except you know that this is utterly undermining the fundamental premise of education itself, which is the development of the individual. Yeah. Do you think down the road. I know this is purely speculative and maybe it's overly hopeful in fact, but does the reckoning in higher education, and maybe even in secondary education and primary education come down to saying, look, um, you know, AI is something that students are gonna be able to use and be proficient in regardless of whether or not we exist.The only way that we're gonna carve out a meaningful existence for ourself is an essentially, almost a reversion to [00:14:00] what higher education was. Years ago, maybe it is not as much for everybody. Maybe it is more for those people who really want to become intellectuals, use their minds, develop the mindsets and the skills of the intellectual in the positive sense of that, and in whatever way they're contributing to society.Maybe there are fewer institutions, but they are holding the line further on the cultivation of the individual and those individuals. Maybe because there are fewer of them and because they are more specialized in certain critical thinking skills become, again, more valuable to society. Is that possible, do you think?Or is, am I pipe dreaming here? Because I just hope education doesn't implode entirely though. I think a reckoning is gonna be healthy.Robert Neibuhr: Yeah.Steve Pearlman (2): What do you think?Robert Neibuhr: Yeah, no, I mean, um, the, the, the first bit that crossed my mind as as you were talking was this sort of the, the saying. Something about, you know, some of [00:15:00] us can pretend all the time and get away with it.All of us can pretend some of the time, but we all can't pretend all the time. Right? Like this sort of sense of, of, you know, like there, there has to be, someone has to tell the truth, right? Like the emperor with no clothes, it's like, well, clearly there's something wrong here. Um, but I to to the, to the future and where this, where this sort of looks and where you, where you went towards the, the end of the question.Um. I mean, I, I don't, I don't know, but if, if the rhetoric about AI reshaping the workforce, if, if part of that comes true and, and if it's, if it's about, you know, um, one skilled, let's call 'em a critical thinker, because ideally that's what's, what's going on. But one skilled, critical thinker at a desk can, can, you know, enter in the, the correct.Keystrokes to enable a machine to do the work of what 10 people would've done. I, I don't know. Right. Let's assume the, sort of, the productivity is there across [00:16:00] white collar, um, professions. I, I don't think, I think if you give everyone a college degree and the, the act, the, the possibility for a meaningful job is so slim.You create a society that that is. Seething with despair and resentment. Right? And, and you know, I'm scholar of primarily the Cold War. And you look at, you know, across Eastern Europe, the, the, the correlation between high unemployment, yet high levels of degrees of, of bachelor's degrees and sort of resentment and the political, the search, right?Like there, you see, especially in the 1970s and eighties, there's this sort of lost. Um, there's a sense of hopelessness, like, I can't survive here in Poland or Yugoslavia or Bulgaria, or whatever it was. Um, and, and if I don't fit, then, then that's like the society has failed me. And if, if we have this scenario where everyone just gets pushed through and gets a degree, [00:17:00] but you know, they're, they're, they're doing something that they don't, they haven't been trained in or they don't enjoy, or it doesn't fit with anything, it doesn't realize their personal goals.It has to, the system has to collapse. We have to reshape it into something that's trade school, uh, or, or what, you know, various levels. Right. And, and I get the idea of maybe a liberal arts, uh, uh, you know, system that, you know, people who want to enter in and, and, you know, be the sort of intellectual, the philosopher kings, I suppose, right.But, um, but that there, there probably should be some sort of system that would, that would recognize that because it, it, it doesn't, it doesn't seem like society, we'd be playing too many games and, and fi you know, playing with fire if, if society is just sort of running on the status quo.Steve Pearlman (2): I wanna bounce your article in inside Higher Ed against another one that was fairly [00:18:00] contemporaneous and I'll put it in the show notes.And the title was, effectively, AI is changing. Higher education, and it was very neutral in its assessment. But within that was a survey, uh, that was conducted of thousands of college students, two thirds of whom reported that the use of AI was probably degrading their critical thinking skills. And the, the author build this as neutrally changing higher education and I.I think there's a prevailing attitude in among many faculty members, at least the literature that's coming out is so much rah rah about artificial intelligence that if anything, that neutrality of the author was conservative relative to I think a lot of how educators are viewing it, but I was very disturbed by that characterization.If two thirds of students report that [00:19:00] using AI is probably degrading their critical thinking skills. How, how the hell are we describing that as neutrally changing or having positive and negative effects? It seems to me that that has, uh, at least for the time being, should raise enough alarms for us to say, wait a second.That's not having a neutral effect at all. That's a terrible degradation of higher education, especially given that it wasn't really cultivating critical thinking skills to begin with, and now that students themselves. Are reporting that it's harming it, especially when students tend to overestimate their critical thinking skills in most research surveys about it.This seems like it, it's a pretty clear indictment of artificial intelligence's role so far in education.Robert Neibuhr: Yeah, no, I, I think, and, and this sort of, um, I'm not surprised that I, as you said, like this, I, I think seeing that as neutral or, or. Um, continuing [00:20:00] to just cheerlead the, a notion among administration faculty that, you know, this is the new direction no matter what.Right? Those people who think they're critical thinking, those students must be misguided somehow they don't understand, right? I mean, we get this sort of disconnected, um, mentality. Um, but that's, that's, um, that, that does it, it creates a, a, a serious issue for, for the whole system because then again, it's, um.How willing are, are those, how willing are those two thirds, uh, who responded that way? How willing are they to follow the rules? How willing are they to, to not say, well, you know, this is all kind of a sham, so I, you know, I'll bend a little bit. I'll, I'll sort of have more ai, do more of my work. Like who's gonna catch me mentality?And that's, I mean, that's. Not to say they're bad people for student for doing that. That's kind of a natural reaction. We've encouraged people to take this sort of approach, [00:21:00] um, and, and 'cause students increasingly, I've witnessed, anecdotally, I've witnessed the, the decline in punishing students for academic offenses, right?I mean, I remember 20 years ago, uh, as a, as a grad ta. Um, I, I caught two students that I, I was pretty sure that they, they copied each other and they, they had essays that were, they changed some words, but I was convinced, and it, and the, the dean's office concur, concurred. It does seem that way, but you understand that one student has a serious problem right now and his mother's very ill, and, you know, we can give him a break.And I'm not out to, you know, obviously if someone's. Circumstances or circumstances, those are real, right? I mean, I'm not some sort of, you know, like we have to always, but you have a heart, but you, you know, what does that, what message does that send? Uh, that it's, oh, but if I have a sad story or something's going on in my life, [00:22:00] it's okay.And, and I think this AI use and, and the, in the lack of clarity. Um, and this sort of, all this sort of push is, is simply en encouraging the kind of behavior that we o overall don't want. Um, so maybe it's neutral now, let's say give the guy the benefit of the doubt. Um, maybe it's neutral today. I don't think it's neutral in a year from now, or six months, right?I don't, I don't think that can be, it's a sustainable thing.Steve Pearlman (2): Let me touch on that. Uh, because I was around, I'm old enough to have been around when the internet hit higher education. And I remember at that time two things that fascinated me that I thought were very odd, uh, for, and the faculty were as they are now with ai, think racing to embrace the internet, uh, Google searches, uh, HTML, and you know, so forth.And one of the things that struck me as very odd was the push they felt [00:23:00] to incorporate the internet into their classes and teach students how to use it and so forth. Which I didn't understand because it was very clear that the students were far more adept at it than any of the faculty were, and they were becoming the digital natives that they are now.And so I don't know why anyone felt as though we were needing to teach them how to use the internet when they were far ahead of us, obviously, in all of that. And the second thing was that emerged at the same time, was. An argument that, that it was a lateral shift, that reading short little webpages and clicking on different links, and as things got shorter and shorter, uh, and webpages got more desperate and so forth, we would, it was just a neutral shift in how people thought, and it was not a degradation of the ability to focus long term to go deeper.And so on, and I said, well, how can it not be? If we look at the two formats, you have a book on one hand that is a contiguous [00:24:00] set of ideas developed more deeply, and then you have a number of different web pages that are skirting across many different HTML links to different short paragraphs about things.And I sort of tried to scream at the wind a little bit about it back then, but it was, it was obvious that it was blowing in the wrong direction. And it seems to me AI is that only times about a thousand in terms of what's happening. Once again, we see a clamor to teach students how to use AI and incorporate it into their lives when they're already far ahead of us in terms of what AI is doing and how to use it.And the second thing is this notion that, again, it's lateral if not beneficial when the evidence suggests otherwise. Can you, in your insight where, given your position, I'm wondering if you can help me appreciate. Why are what is behind the faculty rush in education to embrace this? Is it, I get a sense and I'll, and then I'll be quiet because I'm trying to ask you a question.I've only asked four [00:25:00] so far. But, uh, I get a sense that, in a sense I think the faculty kind of feel helpless. That, that there's a, there's a sense that if we can't beat this and we have no idea how we could possibly beat this, then we might as well just go with it. Uh, do you feel like that's accurate?Robert Neibuhr: I think, I think, um, yes.I, I, you know, maybe a little more, some nuance to the, yes. Um, I, I suppose on the one side, um, again, faculty coming, generally coming from, from a good place, right? I wanna, I wanna help my students and I think that's, you know, um, you know, rather, rather ubiquitous, uh, among, among faculty, I wanna help, I wanna help the students, uh, do better and, and succeed.I, I think if, if there's this, this huge push to say that AI is the future, AI is if we don't, if we don't talk about it, if we don't introduce it to students, if we [00:26:00] don't sort of teach them things about it, that we're doing the students a disservice. So I, I think there's this reflective, like, we don't have much time.We have to teach them something. Let's chisel together, you know, some sort of idea and, and you know, then I can feel good about, um, having passed on some sort of, you know, knowledge to my students and help me better prepare them. I think that's perhaps, um, part of it. Um. Yeah, I think a helplessness in terms too of, you know, I, I feedback or things I hear from faculty in my unit and, and, and elsewhere is, is this sort of helplessness that administration is, has a tremendous amount of power and is sort of pushing an agenda that faculty don't have the ability to push back against as well.Right? So like. Again, a [00:27:00] perfect world. Let's think about this. Let's figure out what's actually necessary, how we can, how we can prepare students. Let's, let's think about this and, and be, be reasonable about it versus the sort of top down push. And I think faculties across the country have, have lost an ability to, to be self-governing as they would've been, you know, 20 years ago or something like this.Uh, and, and you know, the sort of administrative superstructure that has has dominated. You know, universities, uh, in, in the recent years, um, just simply says, this is what we do. And, and part of this is I thinklike, like before, right? So my university is, I think, the biggest in the country. Um, uh, or certainly one of the top three or something like this. Um, and, and the notion of scaling up is kind of always on sort of the, the talking points of the, this, right? We, let's scale up, let's do something else to have a even bigger, or let's grow by this much.Or [00:28:00] that, that pressure then doesn't come with let's hire X number of faculty to take care of that, right? Let's hire this many more people to, to get. So it's asking more, but without giving more support. Um. And I think too, what you, what you mentioned with in the beginning, uh, of your question with sort of the way the internet was, I haven't thought this through.This is just sort of, you know, just on the spot here. Um, maybe this is, maybe this is not necessarily the, the best analysis, but my own sort of thought there is, you know, we don't, we don't, we no longer have a robust research librarian. Network at universities anymore, in my opinion. So in other words, like folks who would've been in charge of, um, perusing, you know, the, the publications and, and journals and being in touch with faculty, doing research to say, Hey, I know you're [00:29:00] a specialist in this.Here are the newest titles. Do you want me to buy this database? Or whatever the, the thing might be, right? Like those, the intermediaries between the material and then the faculty. Those, those folks have been largely eliminated and they're not rep being replaced as they retire. There's only a few, a handful of programs that could do library science as a, as a master graduate degree anymore in this country.So with the idea that, that the internet just equalizes us, I'm just as equipped as you would be or the research librarian would be to just go online and find whatever I need. And that's, that's also not. Necessarily true, right? I mean, I, I may be in touch with the things going on in my field, but there's so much going on that I don't have time to, to, you know, and in a sense of research, I am overburdened in a way, and, and letting me fend for myself.Um, you know, maybe it works, maybe it doesn't. [00:30:00] But we've hollowed out the level of specialists who would be that point of reference to go in and, and look at all of those things. Sort of filter a bit and help in the process. And I think that's, you know, that's something I think the internet may have, may have helped, uh, do.And the way that so much became online in the last 20 years in terms of, of, you know, research materials, primary sources, all this sort of stuff. And, and the down, the downfall I would say of, of that profess.Steve Pearlman (2): That seems to me indicative that issue with librarians seems indicative to me of a larger issue.And it's one that you mentioned as well earlier of, um, this, the value of AI to the administration in terms of economizing further economizing further, further economizing instruction. Uh, so what risk do you see or do you hear on the ground? The tremblings of AI [00:31:00] replacing faculty members for certain tasks.I mean, we went from faculty members to adjuncts to teaching assistants doing most of the work. And I, I, I have to think, and there's already publication about it, of administration seeing AI as the next great cost saving measure.Robert Neibuhr: A hundred percent. Yeah. No, I, I think I, I think that's exactly right. I mean, the, the notion that you'd have sort of like.Sort of like at the grocery store, you have two or three checkouts that are open that has a person there checking you out versus the one person loading over 15 self checkouts. I, I, I think that's certainly, and it, especially thinking about economizing and scale and, and saving money. I mean, this has to be, I see it now with, with the, the way that, um, you know, students that used to be.A hundred students, 150, 200 maybe in a class was really big and you had a faculty member with three or four or five TAs or whatever the [00:32:00] breakdown would be. I, I have, I know people at, at my university have six, 700 students in the class. That's, I, I, I don't, how do you, you lose, I mean, that's, I mean, that's just incomprehensible to me in terms of the point of higher ed.Right? I mean, like, you don't, you're not fostering any. Any connectivity, you're not, I mean, it may as well be a bot because you, the student will never interact, you know? Right. Maybe the faculties of noble laureate, you'll never interact with that person. There's, there's very little, um, so that's, that's, that's I think, uh, you know, a, a huge piece of, of where this will go.And I, yeah, I think faculty are vulnerable, that they've been made more vulnerable over the last decades and, and, and Yeah. I don't see it voting well, my advice to the. Faculty. I began the podcast, right? This notion of let's stop grading, you know? I said, well, you know, I mean, we should think of ways that we remain [00:33:00] relevant, right?I mean, if, if we, if we propose that, well, we just won't grade essays. We won't assign essays, then for sure they can get someone, the administration can hire someone at lower pay to do what we're doing in the classroom. That's not. That's not a far stretch of anyone's imagination. Um, so I, I mean, I don't want to be a part of the, you know, the, the group that nullifies myself by taking away the prime thing that I can give.Right. Um, but not to ramble, but I, you know, part of the, this fear too is, is a student yesterday had sent me, um, uh, something that was really interesting. So, uh, we're a Cold War class. Cold War seminar. He read a book by, uh, John Lewis Gatis, and, and he, he read it. He, he had some notes. He understood a lot and really, really bright guy.And, and then he, he said, you know, I put into ai, I forget which, which program, but he put into AI created a [00:34:00] podcast that talks about this book. Holy cow. It was, I listened to 10 or 15 minutes of it. It was two people talking. They, they, it mimicked. It mimicked. I mean, it was, it could have been real had I been in the car listening, I would've thought this was a, a, you know, a book talk about Candice's last book on the call.It was, it was insane how good it sounded. And, uh, you know, uh, that's, that would be easy for, uh, you know, recreate, you know, Dr. Nebo in a, in a discussion seminar. So, you know, my, they can get my image and they can get my voice, and who knows? I mean, that, that can't be that thing.Steve Pearlman (2): No, and you know, it, you raised the point about chatting with bots and it, I'll piggyback on what you're saying right now.I can understand if we're gonna have an interaction with bots as an, as a tutor, and potentially valuably. So I'm not against all usages of ai, where if we're learning, say, the layers [00:35:00] of the earth's crust. Uh, as a very simplistic example, but nevertheless, we can rely on the AI to be relatively accurate in coaching us about the layers of the earth crust.But now there are also ais who will interact with you as Hamlet. Well, you could pull out any 50 Shakespeare scholars and have them respond to prompts and that you'll get different responses. All of them thoughtful. But this bot who is deciding, uh, but based on what algorithms are we deciding its responses as Hamlet to prompts that are not within Hamlet, that now we're crossing quite the Rubicon in terms of where we're putting trust in bots to educate our students or coach our students.In ways that I don't think are reliable, and it's not, even if the, even if the bot gives what might be very thoughtful hamlet responses and very reasonable ones, they are a selection of, of an [00:36:00] interpretation of Hamlet based on certain people. I guess that it's searching across the internet as opposed to others, and now that's equally dangerous to me as far as I can conceive.Robert Neibuhr: Yeah, I think, you know, that I've, I've. The same, the same sort of idea of the sort of book, book summary. And, and, and I mean, I, I, I think it's so even a fact, even just fact as you said, like just scientific facts that we know that can be provable. If, if we wind up having queries to the AI and say, okay, what is this?And it gives us the right answer and we check it, we know it, but at at a point, right? I mean, we have to say, okay, you know, it's been right 52 times. I trust it now, and who's to, and if I stop and check like, you know what, I verified, this is good, and now down the road it lies to me. Or, or again, this other, you know, avatar, other sort of per ai sort of driven personality or, or, or, [00:37:00] you know, this comes in and, and now I don't realize that I'm taking an information at face value.And again, I lose that critical thinking. I, I lose that ability. That's also reasonable, right? If I checked it so many times, what, what else can I do? I'm a busy person, right? We're all busy people. How can I keep referring back and verifying? Um, and that's gonna, I think that's gonna be a huge problem. If, if we wind up at some point saying, yep, that's good.And then, and thenSteve Pearlman (2): we're, we're duped down the road. It reminds me of an old Steve Martin joke. He would say that, um, he thought it would be a great practical joke to play on kids. Uh, if you raise them to speak wrong when they get to school, so all their words are incorrect and they have no idea. Yeah, it sort of seems like the same problem, right?A certain point. The AI might be telling us everything that's wrong. We have no idea that it's wrong, and we're living in that world where everything is distorted and we don't know what we don't even know. That's a terrifying prospect. Thanks for [00:38:00] bringing that up. I try to bring up the hide behind. So as, as we wrap this up, where, what didn't I ask you about?Where, what's the thing that you think we also need to talk about here that I didn't shed enough light on for this conversation?Robert Neibuhr: Oh, I don't, I mean, I, I guess I, I, my, my own sense is that, that the conversation. Any conversation about higher ed um, needs to be grounded in the basic principle of, of the point, like the, the value that, that we get from it, the, the goals that it, it it brings us.Um, and, and, um, you know, that if, if that's at the center, if, if the idea of, you know, instilling, uh, you know, students with the tools to. Actually survive in a dynamic world. You know, [00:39:00] my degree today might totally change into the reality. It might totally change in 10 years, whatever, if I'm still equipped to respond to that change.That's been a successful education. Right. And, and, and the, the point of the, the critical thought, the reflection, um, the, you know, preparing for, um. Really the, for our context in the United States, I mean, I think it's, it's also part of the, the whole experience with, or experiment with, with democracy, right?Inform citizenship. I mean, this is all part of it. If, if it's just, um, if the narrative about higher ed is simply the paper mill or green mill for a job to get some sort of, you know, a higher number of, of a wage, or if it's about, you know. Finishing just tick boxes and hitting goals without being ever checked or questioned.I mean, that's, that's, um. That's not the right, that's not the point. I, I don't think. Right. I mean, the, the, you know, what are, what are, how are we growing, how are we building ourselves? [00:40:00] How are we preparing for uncertain futures? And if the conversation they should always be, be, be centered on, on that, uh, whether it's AI or whether it's, you know, any other stuff.But that, that would be the only thing I would sort of stress. But I, we've talked about that already, but I think that's, I try to think of that in, in terms of any of these,Steve Pearlman (2): um, sort of conversations. I wanna ask you one last question that just came to mind. What if, I'm sure we have a lot, we have a lot of parents listening.I'm curious as to what message you would send to them if they have either students, children in college or children headed to college in the somewhat near future. What's the message for them at this point with respect to all of that? Because I don't exactly know what it is.Robert Neibuhr: Yeah, I mean, I, it's, I, it, it seems, what, what I think is, is, is is not gonna be a popular [00:41:00] or not gonna be, you know, what folks, you know, necessarily can, can even, you know, want to hear or, or, you know, could even act on it.But I, I, I guess part of it is, is to, can. Ensure you're involved and, and understand, you know, ask, what's the syllabus? I mean, I'll digress for a second, right? I mean, I, I, this is one of those things that I've had a critique about for, for a while. Um, sort of my grumpy old man coming out. But I mean like the, the sort of sense of like universities.Let's build a really luxurious dorm facility. Let's build up the sports center. Let's have, when, when the TV crew comes for the game day, we'll have brand new flowers. The, the sort of superficial wowing that happens. And parents, the, the, the tours are a big part of this, right? I mean, the tours show all the goodies.And not to say that that's a bad thing, right? I mean, you know, dorms were substandard 30 years ago in large, right? I mean, there's, there's an argument for why these things [00:42:00] are good. Um, but, but I think a lot of the, the, there's been a, a, a cleavage between what parents are told the experience is gonna be and what they're actually sort of shown and informed.And then of course, students want independence. Students want, you know, they're, they're on their own now, their decision makers and in large part, and there's a sort of disconnection there. And I, I think it's, it's hard, it's a big ask, but if parents can, can remain. Ask the tough questions. Like how many books in a library, how many, you know, how many, uh, you know, full-time faculty, how many, you know, go down the list of academic credentials.Um, and then look at the syllabi. Look at the assignments from from your students, right? Or, or think about, uh, if they're already in there or if they're going right. Think about that as something you would, you would do. Um. And, and, you know, keep people's feet to the fire, right? I mean, to use of a tired metaphor, but I [00:43:00] mean, keep, keep that as much as you can and, and, you know, try to push back because if, if students are customers, um, parents are the, are the ones paying for it ultimately.So they're detached their, the true customer. I, I suppose. And if they start calling up the deans and saying things like, what is, what's going on here? Um, maybe things will, will change. Maybe there'll be a, a response. Um, but stay informed, I guess, as, as much as I possibly can, I think wouldSteve Pearlman (2): be the, well, that seems Sage elite to me.Robert, thanks so much for being on actual intelligence. I appreciate it and, and, uh, as you're thinking evolves on this, maybe we can have you back in the future sometime and continue the discussion.Robert Neibuhr: Sounds great. Thank you.Steve Pearlman (2): Thank you. This is a public episode. If you would like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit pearlmanactualintelligence.substack.com

In this episode, we dive deep into the science of longevity with Courtney Van Bussum, COO of Longevity Launch Labs. Courtney shares her insights on the NAD (Nicotinamide Adenine Dinucleotide) pathway, a critical component in the aging process and how we can leverage it for longevity optimization. We explore the fascinating molecule 1-MNA (1-Methylnicotinamide), its unique role in the body, and how it helps lower levels of the NNMT (Nicotinamide N-methyltransferase) enzyme, which is associated with various age-related diseases and metabolic disorders. Key Topics Discussed: Introduction to the NAD Pathway: Overview of the NAD pathway and its significance in cellular metabolism and aging. The role of NAD+ in DNA repair, energy production, and maintaining cellular health. Understanding 1-MNA (1-Methylnicotinamide): What is 1-MNA, and what is it's role in the NAD story. The unique properties of 1-MNA and its potential as a longevity molecule. The NNMT Enzyme and Its Implications for Health: Explanation of NNMT (Nicotinamide N-methyltransferase) and its impact on metabolic health and aging. How elevated NNMT levels are linked to obesity, cancer, diabetes, and other age-related diseases. How 1-MNA Lowers NNMT Levels: The mechanism by which 1-MNA reduces NNMT activity, promoting healthier aging. Potential benefits of 1-MNA in reducing inflammation, improving metabolism, and supporting overall health.  How the immune system and NAD pathways are both key to longevity and health optimisation and how we can leverage and optimise both as we age.  Longevity Optimization Strategies: How targeting the NAD pathway and modulating NNMT activity can be part of a comprehensive longevity strategy. Practical tips for integrating 1-MNA and other NAD-boosting supplements into your daily routine. Courtney's Vision for the Future of Longevity Research: Insights into the latest developments at Longevity Launch Labs. The future of NAD research and its potential to revolutionize aging and healthcare. If you want to supplement 1-MNA you can now get it in our Longevity and Anti-Aging store  Bio Courtney Van Bussum is a dynamic entrepreneur and business leader who currently serves as the COO of Longevity Launch Labs, a pioneering incubator focused on advancing the Cellular and Longevity Medicine sectors. With a Bachelor of Science in Biomedical Engineering from Arizona State University, Barrett Honors College, Courtney has overseen several startups in the healthcare and medical arenas ranging from fitness applications to wearable medical devices. Her early career began as a strategy consultant in Scottsdale, Arizona where she honed her skills by working with Fortune 500 companies and startups, streamlining processes and driving innovation. In 2020, Courtney joined the Boulder Longevity Institute, where she played a crucial role in enhancing the institute's core technology and operational systems. Two years later, she co-founded Longevity Launch Labs, where she has been instrumental in building the operational frameworks that have propelled the incubator to become a key connector in the industry. Under her leadership, Longevity Launch Labs offers a range of services including product co-formulation and development, distribution, product rollout strategy, and mentorship, all aimed at supporting companies and healthcare practitioners in the rapidly evolving field of longevity medicine. Through Launch's Longevity Impact Fund, Courtney also helps early-stage startups access key capital to further development of their healthcare innovations. Having grown up around the world of medicine, Courtney understands that changing healthcare can only be achieved through creating innovative parallel systems that improve outcomes and experience. Her visionary leadership and deep expertise make her an invaluable voice in the conversation around healthcare innovation and longevity. Subscribe to our podcast for more expert insights on longevity, health optimization, and cutting-edge research. Visit Longevity Launch Labs' website for more information on 1-MNA and other groundbreaking research initiatives.  Connect with us on social media and share your thoughts on this episode using the hashtag #1-MNA   Personalised Health Optimisation Consulting with Lisa Tamati Lisa offers solution focused coaching sessions to help you find the right answers to your challenges. Topics Lisa can help with:  Lisa is a Genetics Practitioner, Health Optimisation Coach, High Performance and Mindset Coach. She is a qualified Ph360 Epigenetics coach and a clinician with The DNA Company and has done years of research into brain rehabilitation, neurodegenerative diseases and biohacking. She has extensive knowledge on such therapies as hyperbaric oxygen,  intravenous vitamin C, sports performance, functional genomics, Thyroid, Hormones, Cancer and much more. She can assist with all functional medicine testing. Testing Options Comprehensive Thyroid testing DUTCH Hormone testing Adrenal Testing Organic Acid Testing Microbiome Testing Cell Blueprint Testing Epigenetics Testing DNA testing Basic Blood Test analysis Heavy Metals  Nutristat Omega 3 to 6 status and more  Lisa and her functional medicine colleagues in the practice can help you navigate the confusing world of health and medicine . She can also advise on the latest research and where to get help if mainstream medicine hasn't got the answers you are searching for whatever the  challenge you are facing from cancer to gut issues, from depression and anxiety, weight loss issues, from head injuries to burn out to hormone optimisation to the latest in longevity science. Book your consultation with Lisa    Join our Patron program and support the show Pushing the Limits' has been free to air for over 8 years. Providing leading edge information to anyone who needs it. But we need help on our mission.  Please join our patron community and get exclusive member benefits (more to roll out later this year) and support this educational platform for the price of a coffee or two You can join by going to  Lisa's Patron Community Or if you just want to support Lisa with a "coffee" go to  https://www.buymeacoffee.com/LisaT to donate $3   Lisa's Anti-Aging and Longevity Supplements  Lisa has spent years curating a very specialized range of exclusive longevity, health optimizing supplements from leading scientists, researchers and companies all around the world.  This is an unprecedented collection. The stuff Lisa wanted for her family but couldn't get in NZ that's what it's in her range. Lisa is constantly researching and interviewing the top scientists and researchers in the world to get you the best cutting edge supplements to optimize your life.   Subscribe to our popular Youtube channel  with over 600 videos, millions of views, a number of full length documentaries, and much more. You don't want to miss out on all the great content on our Lisa's youtube channel. Youtube   Order Lisa's Books Lisa has published 5 books: Running Hot, Running to Extremes, Relentless, What your oncologist isn't telling you and her latest "Thriving on the Edge"  Check them all out at  https://shop.lisatamati.com/collections/books   Perfect Amino Supplement by Dr David Minkoff Introducing PerfectAmino PerfectAmino is an amino acid supplement that is 99% utilized by the body to make protein. PerfectAmino is 3-6x the protein of other sources with almost no calories. 100% vegan and non-GMO. The coated PerfectAmino tablets are a slightly different shape and have a natural, non-GMO, certified organic vegan coating on them so they will glide down your throat easily. Fully absorbed within 20-30 minutes! No other form of protein comes close to PerfectAminos Listen to the episode with Dr Minkoff here:    Use code "tamati" at checkout to get a 10% discount on any of their devices.   Red Light Therapy: Lisa is a huge fan of Red Light Therapy and runs a Hyperbaric and Red Light Therapy clinic. If you are wanting to get the best products try Flexbeam: A wearable Red Light Device https://recharge.health/product/flexbeam-aff/?ref=A9svb6YLz79r38   Or Try Vielights' advanced Photobiomodulation Devices Vielight brain photobiomodulation devices combine electrical engineering and neuroscience. To find out more about photobiomodulation, current studies underway and already completed and for the devices mentioned in this video go to www.vielight.com and use code “tamati” to get 10% off     Enjoyed This Podcast? If you did, subscribe and share it with your friends! If you enjoyed tuning in, then leave us a review and share this with your family and friends. Have any questions? You can contact my team through email (support@lisatamati.com) or find me on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and YouTube. For more episode updates, visit my website. You may also tune in on Apple Podcasts.  To pushing the limits, Lisa and team

Who do you want in charge; Jimmy Carter or Ronald Reagan? How does the media get away with what they say about Republicans? We're joined by John Dombroski, founder and president of Grand Canyon Planning. Jamie Dimon, CEO of JP Morgan Chase, praises the Trump Administration in a recent interview with CNBC. Arizona State University (ASU) is exclusively looking for a professor of color for a recent opening in its Barrett Honors College. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ann Atkinson and Arizona State Rep. Austin Smith sit down with Charlie to dive deep into the long simmering fued between ASU, President Crow, and the Barrett Honors College and TPUSA, and yes, Charlie Kirk. Now as the state prepares to defund the far-left university for its brazen double standard and its insane class offerings, Ann and Austin explain just what's at stake in a regional battle that has national implications. Are you okay with your college kid learning about how witchcraft actually heals or how to have intercourse with a kraken?Support the show: http://www.charliekirk.com/supportSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The left has been unrelenting in its attack on PragerU over the last month. Their great fear is that PragerU is coming to public schools. The shallowness of the attacks is revealing… Another tragic transition story. This time in the Daily Mail. Lawsuits may be only way out of this national shame… Look at what the left has done to children's hospitals.  Fewer Americans are going to church and fewer have strong religious connections. There are real consequences to our society because of this and they are not good… Dennis talks to Tom Lewis, real estate investor and former sponsor of the Lewis Center at the Barrett Honors College at Arizona State University.  Dennis talks to Axel Kaiser, Director of the Friedrich Hayek Chair at the Adolfo Ibáñez University in Santiago, Chile.  His new book is The Street Economist: 15 Economics Lessons Everyone Should Know. Thanks for listening to the Daily Dennis Prager Podcast. To hear the entire three hours of my radio show as a podcast, commercial-free every single day, become a member of Pragertopia. You'll also get access to 15 years' worth of archives, as well as daily show prep. Subscribe today at Pragertopia dot com.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Shame! on Arizona State University that summarily fired Ann Atkinson, Executive Director of the T.W. Lewis Center for Personal Development - following a February symposium on “Health, Wealth, and Happiness”. The forum featured Robert Kiyosaki (author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad), Dennis Prager, Turning Point USA's Charlie Kirk, and heart-transplant cardiologist Radha Gopalan. Labeled as too “Right Wing” for the fragile ears of the faculty of the Barrett Honors College, students were harassed and encouraged to boycott the event which was ultimately successful. But, the fallout, was unbelievable… Ann has since taken her case to the press and the legislature and a chat with Chris and Sean about the challenges of conservative free speech rights on college campuses. All of this begs the question - “Where is Michael Crow??” A must listen for anyone for fears for our freedom and liberty in higher education. You can check out Ann's recent op-ed in National review here: https://www.nationalreview.com/2023/06/some-universities-care-about-free-speech-until-they-dont/ Follow Light Beer Dark Money on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LightBeerDarkMoney/ Follow Light Beer Dark Money on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lightbeerdarkmoney/ Follow Light Beer Dark Money on Twitter: https://twitter.com/LBDMshow Follow Light Beer Dark Money on Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/company/light-beer-dark-money/ Link to the Light Beer Dark Money Blog: https://lightbeerdarkmoney.com/hypocrisy-and-the-aoc-oh-sandy/

There's a European Union supported group called Beyond Growth. They're on a mission to make everyone poorer. Prosperous people consume too many resources… The CEO of the company that made the Titanic sub doesn't want old “50-year-old white guys” on his team. He wants young people. They're more “inspiring.”…For the left, it's not merely enough to tolerate deviant behavior. We must celebrate it. Take pride in it… What happens to your life when your husband goes trans?  What are the consequences to friends and family of someone going trans? This is one question that no one seems to ask.  Dennis talks to Ann Atkinson former executive director of the T.W. Lewis Center for Personal Development at ASU's Barrett Honors College. Following a speech by Dennis and Charlie Kirk, ASU shut down the Lewis Center. Ann's WSJ piece about her travails has gone viral. Thanks for listening to the Daily Dennis Prager Podcast. To hear the entire three hours of my radio show as a podcast, commercial-free every single day, become a member of Pragertopia. You'll also get access to 15 years' worth of archives, as well as daily show prep. Subscribe today at Pragertopia dot com.See omny.fm/listener for privacy information.

About Peter J. Burns III Peter J. Burns III is a serial entrepreneur, who has demonstrated time and time again that he has a keen eye for creating innovative businesses and partnerships. Based today in Del Mar, California, Burns grew up in a well-established New England family in New Canaan, Connecticut. He was briefly educated at the United States Military Academy Preparatory School at West Point, the University of Virginia (UVa), and finally the Harvard Business School's Owners and Presidents Management Program. While his two younger brothers went on to have successful business careers, Burns chose the life of an entrepreneur. Burns adds that his "official" career as an entrepreneur started as a result of his enrollment in an Entrepreneurship course at UVa's venerable McIntire School of Commerce. His business plan for that course was importing mopeds (motorized bikes) to the US from Europe and renting them to tourists at US resorts. “I executed my business plan on Nantucket after my class was over, made a small fortune and never looked back,” said Burns. Burns started hundreds of businesses over the next two decades. He then moved to Arizona in the early 2000s and became a pro bono adjunct faculty member at the highly respected Barrett Honors College at Arizona State University. In 2006, he took his teaching practice across town to Grand Canyon University and its entrepreneur-like founder Brent Richardson, where the two men would launch the nation's first College of Entrepreneurship at GCU. “The spark behind the college was ignited only a month ago by Peter Burns, a self-made millionaire who is teaching entrepreneur education classes at Arizona State University's Barrett Honors College,” according to the Phoenix Business Journal. “Burns met with GCU Chief Executive Brent Richardson after, Burns says, ASU and its business school weren't interested in forming a program specifically targeting entrepreneurs.” In recognition of his work, Burns was honored by the Arizona chapter of the Future Business Leaders of America its Businessperson of the Year in 2007. Shortly thereafter, he started Club Entrepreneur as a way to bring entrepreneurs together in an “open-source entrepreneurship” platform. The Phoenix chapter attracted 10,000 members. In 2016, Burns moved to the West Coast and started Burns Funding as a way to help entrepreneurs secure hard-to-get funding for their businesses. Burns is the father of two daughters and four granddaughters, which he credits as an influence for his latest or most innovative venture – Millennial Queenmaker, an emerging company that helps young women become successful entrepreneurs. For more information about Peter Burns go to:  Peter J. Burns III, Serial Start-Up Entrepreneur (peterjburnsiii.com) Burns Funding - Burns Funding HOME - Millennial Queenmaker

Elizabeth A. Vazquez is the CEO and Co-Founder of WEConnect International, a global network that connects women-owned businesses to qualified buyers around the world. She is a world leader in women's economic empowerment and global supplier diversity and inclusion. As the head of WEConnect International, Ms. Vazquez is responsible for mission delivery and measurable impact. WEConnect International identifies, educates, registers, and certifies women's business enterprises that are at least 51% owned, managed, and controlled by one or more women, and then connects them with member buyers. The WEConnect International WECommunity supports and promotes women-owned businesses based in over 120 countries, including local support and certification in almost 50 countries across the Americas, Asia, Europe, the Middle East and Africa. The organization also helps to develop the capacity of large buyers to source more products and services from underutilized suppliers, including women-owned businesses globally. Ms. Vazquez is the co-author of the book, “Buying for Impact: How to Buy from Women and Change Our World.” She sits on several boards of directors and councils including the Procter & Gamble Supplier Diversity Advisory Council. She “rang the bell” at the New York Stock Exchange in 2019 in support of women business owners around the world and is a W20 Representative to advance G20 commitments. She also served as a member of the UN Secretary-General's High-Level Panel on Women's Economic Empowerment from 2016-2017. Ms. Vazquez is an advisor to a long list of corporate, government and multilateral leaders, including WEConnect International members with over US$1 trillion in annual purchasing power. She has served as a trainer and guest lecturer on international trade and gender inclusive growth to graduate students at several business schools and universities such as American University, Arizona State University Honors College, Brown University, Georgetown University, Harvard University, MIT, Oxford University, Tufts University, University of Johannesburg, University of Ottawa, and more. She was born in Mexico, has a Bachelor of Arts in Political Science from Arizona State University, and was honored by the Barrett Honors College as an Inspiring Alumni for making significant contributions in her career and community. She has a Master of Arts in Law and Diplomacy from the Fletcher School at Tufts University where she studied development economics and international negotiation as a Woodrow Wilson Fellow and is the recipient of the 2018 Fletcher Women's Leadership Award for outstanding graduates who are making a meaningful impact in the world. She also completed graduate seminars at Harvard Law School and the Kennedy School of Government, the Heinz School of Public Policy and Management at Carnegie Mellon University, and Sookmyung Women's University in South Korea. https://weconnectinternational.org/

Eric is the founder of Tism, merchandise by Autistic people for Autistic people, to promote a message of Autism positivity. The Tism was founded on one main principle, one fundamental mission that drives this entire operation: “By autistic people, for autistic people.” In this episode, we explore… * The story behind The Tism * How people view autism * Understanding Autism  * Taking a stand for people * Bringing awareness to autism * The impact The Tism is creating Like this episode? Subscribe to our podcast on iTunes and Spotify. If you listen to the Extraordinary Being Movement podcast, take a screenshot and tag us @ExtraordinaryBeingMovement on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter @theebmpodcast.  Connect with Eric Rozansky… Website: https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fthetism.org%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR2XU2JrSVM4ibEen9C9KAodwErJgnpRvx-MXq3Qbwn6Z3UBj-eR1LW4uBY&h=AT2Lidf5m5N_hVfSPZ8QG1DeNzgLqsXK8QxyC_DPBaZ2vxSrOwwp4obOD1hLns6umDEtZz-ENySfFjFyEGNEPYUNqvxvIKQQ4z797tOJO-SwehJ_tLMOrBWLdJzr8UhbrXFXX9ku1jnh76BReH8 (https://thetism.org/)  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Gotthetism (https://www.facebook.com/Gotthetism)  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/gotthetism/ (https://www.instagram.com/gotthetism/)  Twitter: https://twitter.com/gotthetism (https://twitter.com/gotthetism)  About Eric Rozansky Eric Rozansky is the founder and owner of The Tism. He was diagnosed with autism at a young age and has lived with it all his life. The Tism was born with him looking around at how autism is seen and portrayed and realizing that that portrayal not only didn’t match reality but actively hurt autistic individuals. He created a place where people can have earnestly discuss autism, both the good and the bad. Eric is a proud graduate from Barrett Honors College at Arizona State University with a degree in History. Join the Movement! Go tohttps://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ExtraordinaryBeingMovement.com%2F%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR3ua2meTpAoVGH7LGoVbWiBTraF_WSwQx9DdTj08n-Wa0NDduIsysJyjsY&h=AT1dg5NsHFZE4sh3L4J778_oInrnYPpw9-rPxsddzA3_rS5l69YMwGQYAEEgB_IbwEdL-QpPF3_JYydzF_T_L4wNBFfPlZabb-bk9gRS2izflcO61p0a1ct4QKGqzWzMOqFuDgeRsp4rkhCRJjHCaPM&__tn__=-UK-y-R&c%5B0%5D=AT0x-aTJZfKSogd6_8he68E2GpOqFAv1F3pdXTGZOEFKwNpuXEqt-GDVa2xFUqUhQE-xSmd5lBKrpM102LyR5lUiTj9qQ2HNUmhE2qW5pQonIwuLVXysThXNI5LT9Bp0QCmfWw2pVAac19bdDxi1x70wLxUfNbVTzOP_Ex8cl-gym_6kFRj ( http://www.ExtraordinaryBeingMovement.com) to get instant access. #podcast #coaching #autism #message #communication #businessowner #interview #podcaster #autismadvocate #entrepreneurship #demands #ericrozansky #jointhemovement #awareness #thetism #featuredexpert #dontbebullied #standup #takeaction #balance #dontgiveup #makeadifference #thepowerwithin #coachingexpert #autismspectrum #inspiration #challenges #bullying #entrepreneur #tshirt #conversation #asu #arizona #opendiscussion 

Dan’s and Ed’s guest is Galen Englund, a remarkable and very accomplished young man. This podcast highlights the educational paths that led to his successful career and the ability to make a contribution to himself and to society. Galen is open, factual, and freely discusses his family background, and his educational travails as a challenging and misunderstood student. His early education ranged back and forth between Alaska, New Mexico, Arizona, and Costa Rica. Galen pays special tribute to a cadre of excellent teachers he had in the small southern Arizona town of Patagonia.  He was recognized as a Flinn Scholar (2009-2014) and attended Arizona State University, Barrett Honors College, Global Studies program with an emphasis on violence, conflict, and human rights. By age 22, he was deeply involved in the human tragedies of war refugees in Slovenia (what had been Yugoslavia). Please see, Central European University: ceu.academia/GalenLamphereEnglund/curriculumVitae. Unleashed, he has accomplished more in his 20s than most in a lifetime.  He has traveled widely in 60+ countries. He presently heads Englund Consulting: Conflict * Data * Research. Galen is working to identify conditions that lead to war and suffering.

Dave Nobs is the Managing Director and Chief Growth Officer at Lavidge, a highly awarded, employee-owned, full-service advertising agency with ever broadening horizons. Lavidge started in traditional advertising in 1982, then added public relations in the 90s, digital marketing in the 2000s, and multicultural marketing about 5 years ago. A couple years later, the agency broke down the walls between what had been its divisional siloes. Subject matter experts now look at the totality of a client's issues holistically. Dave notes that the agency's work focuses on projects that meet client-specific and industry-specific benchmarks, most commonly tracked through brand awareness and sales. He explains that his agency strives to make a difference for clients, employees, and the community. Lavidge added multicultural marketing to address cross-cultural messaging needs in a state with a strong Hispanic presence . . . but multicultural marketing is not just about language differences. Dave says marketers serving a specific cultural market need to be aware of the different, and almost intangible. “tones,” strategies, and tactics needed for a client to gain credibility within that community. “Truth, inspiration, and action” drive the agency's projects:  Truth “happens” when the agency and a client collaborate to research issues, develop strategy, evaluate data and analytics, and go through the give-and-take-process of participating in focus groups, interviews, consumer intercepts, and experiential observation – and synthesize all that market and client information to understand what the client is “about,” and what the client “needs.” In the inspiration phase, the agency and the client work “hand-in-hand” on the marketing story, the design and art direction, and the feel of the narrative.  The action part includes media and channel placement and assessing responses and brand impression dynamics – getting the message to the masses and hearing their reply.  As Chief Growth Officer, Dave generates new business, grows existing client business, attends to agency marketing issues, and develops strategic client innovations. In this interview, he lists assets that he attributes to Lavidge's success:  An attitude of positivity  Daily communication with clients large and small The agency's focus on the client . . . and on using “every experience, tool, trend, skill and insight at our disposal to create immediate and lasting connections between brands and human beings.” Over the years, Lavidge has evolved to concentrate on a number of core verticals: healthcare, education, retail services, homebuilders, and sports. Dave discussed re-reading a Harvard Business Review article on how to market in a recession. The article's author asserted that tough economic times were “not the time to cut advertising.” Historically, brands increasing advertising during a downturn, while their competitors cut back, “can significantly improve market share and return on investment.” Dave reminds us that “It's also important to be aware of tonality . . . to be authentic . . . to be helpful” and highlighted several companies that are taking action to do just that. Dave is available on his company's website at: https://www.lavidge.com/. Transcript Follows: ROB: Welcome to the Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast. I'm your host, Rob Kischuk, and I'm joined today by Dave Nobs, the Managing Director at Lavidge based in Phoenix, Arizona. Welcome to the podcast, Dave. DAVE: Thank you, Rob. It's a pleasure to be here. ROB: Fantastic to have you here, Dave. Why don't you explain to us where Lavidge really excels and what you're known for? DAVE: Sure. We are a full-service advertising, digital, public relations, and multicultural agency here in Phoenix. We've been in business since '82. We were founded in the '80s as an advertising agency, added PR in the '90s, digital in the 2000s, and then multicultural marketing about 5 years ago. We are one of the largest agencies in Arizona, and certainly one of a handful of full-service agencies, meaning all of our services are in-house under one roof. ROB: Perfect. You've been around for the addition of that multicultural line of business; what were some of the things you saw in the market that pulled you in that direction and caused you to commit to that line of business? DAVE: We're always looking at innovative client solutions, and multicultural marketing, particularly Hispanic marketing here in the Southwest, is particularly important to our clients. We started with McDonald's, which was a big client of ours, and then we added multicultural marketing to a number of our other clients, particularly in healthcare, like Banner Health, Blue Cross Blue Shield, and others just because it was a need that they have. Multicultural marketing is very different than general market in tone and some strategies and tactics specifically geared to accomplish results in that area. ROB: How in particular? What are some of the ways you would say in detail that things need to be different when you're speaking to that sort of audience? DAVE: I think different strategies and tactics resonate with the Hispanic market better than others. Obviously, digital is very important. Events, immersive/experiential marketing sometimes is more important than others. But really, for us, it's more a client solution than it is anything else, particularly for our clients that has that audience, and that's important for them. ROB: I would imagine a part of that is really almost subjective in the eyes of the person being marketed to. It's this overall sense I think we all have when someone knows and understands us versus where someone's intruding into our world but doesn't really belong at the party. Is there an intangible dimension to it, do you think? DAVE: I think that's accurate. ROB: Perfect. Tell us a little bit about how the agency started, if you can get into some of that, and then how you came into the picture as well. DAVE: Sure. As I mentioned, we were founded in '82. We have a staff of just over 70 people. We have $70 million in capitalized billings, and we're employee-owned. I believe we're the only agency in Arizona that's employee-owned. We're proud of the fact that we've been voted Best Place to Work eight times and the Top Agency in Arizona six times, Best Place to Work for Women, and just recently – this month, as a matter of fact – we were named AZ Big Media's No. 1 Advertising Agency for the ninth year in a row. We're very proud of that. For us, it's really about solving client problems with strategic thinking and sharp creative views that go well beyond producing ads. Our agency mantra is “be creative, work smart, and have fun.” We live and breathe that every day. ROB: With an agency that's been there for a while, and you said it's also employee-owned, how do you think about leadership transitions within that environment? Because 33 years, you didn't start the thing but you're running a lot of the show there now, and someone will supersede you. How does that work in that sort of environment? DAVE: Good question. My role is that of a Chief Growth Officer, so my focus is generating new business, growing existing client business, agency marketing, strategic client innovations. I've been here 10 years, and I'm part of a management team of eight people. If you can believe it, I'm the newbie. The rest of the management team members have been with Lavidge for more than 10 years. The industry has changed so much. It certainly has become more project focused. What we need to do, and what we're focused on, is really – our purpose is to make a difference for our clients, our employees, and in the community. Our beliefs are really around truth, inspiration, action. What I mean by that is for our clients – and we're very collaborative; we like to involve the client at every step of the process, from the outset of the campaign to the strategies and tactics to the implementation and to measuring the results. So when I mention our purpose, making a difference, we're looking for truth. You hear a lot in our industry about finding insights, but the truth for us is really strategy, research, the conversation with our clients, including the hard conversations, looking at the data, analytics, focus groups, interviews, consumer intercepts, the experience. All that we put into place to gather these insights. The next step for us is really the inspiration, which is the motivation, the motion, the design, the art direction, the experience, the usability, the feel – to tell those stories, because for us, like most agencies, it's all about storytelling. Then it's the action, getting the results that our clients need. That's looking at media, looking at the channels, looking at loyalty, all of the brand impressions, clicks, visits, awareness, decision, movement, all generating the results our clients are looking for. ROB: It sounds like quite a range of things to think about. I appreciate what you're saying about the insights and having some of those hard conversations around the insights. In some ways, coming into digital, even coming into PR before that, in some ways the numbers that you can present to a client have changed, but the bottom line of business in terms of doing well for your clients, doing well for the business, doing well for your employees – those haven't changed. What are some of the key numbers you see that are really relevant to clients today, that help them understand and help them come to grips with maybe a hard conversation? DAVE: That's a good question. Most of our clients – and this is historically true for the industry as well – are looking at two things at the end of the day, usually: brand awareness and sales. The trick is to develop programs that are specifically geared toward our clients' benchmarks. They're different by industry and they're different for each client. I think it's particularly important these days to develop tailor-made solutions because each client is different, each challenge is different. Oftentimes, there are different projects for some of our bigger clients, and they all have different metrics. ROB: Yeah, especially when the clients are significantly larger. It can make a difference. When it comes to Lavidge, is there any particular sweet spot for you in terms of industries and client size that you maybe see a cluster of clients around that helps develop some particular excellence in that area? DAVE: Some of our core vertical experience – healthcare, certainly we have a number of healthcare clients such as Blue Cross Blue Shield, Delta Dental, SimonMed, Sonora Quest, Banner. So healthcare is certainly a specialty of ours. Another one is education. Arizona State University is one of our larger clients. It's interesting – I say Arizona State University; it's really 12 or 14 different clients because we work with their enterprise marketing hub and all the different schools and divisions, such as Barrett Honors College, Thunderbird, Cronkite, the Alumni Council, the athletics department. It's a number of different clients under that one banner. So healthcare, education. Retail services is another core area of expertise for us. We do a lot of franchise marketing in the retail space. We worked with Massage Envy for years and years and years in virtually every year of marketing and communications. Re-Bath is another significant retail service client of ours. If I had to mention three, those would be it. Healthcare, education, retail services. We also do a lot with homebuilders. We've done a lot in the sports area as well. We're a full-service general market agency, but those are some of our core areas of expertise. ROB: Very interesting. It makes sense. Some of those are very familiar, although even with the educational focus, in some ways it maybe looks more like enterprise than ever before, because what you're describing to me sounds almost – you mentioned their marketing hub – it sounds like a center of excellence that any enterprise brand might have. Do you think they have had some inspiration from that world, or some learnings from the center of excellence approach? Or maybe even the enterprises learned from them. DAVE: Yeah, I believe so. For ASU, it's really all about innovation. They're proud to be named the most innovative university. Obviously Michael Crow, their president, deserves a great deal of the credit for that. But ASU, for us, that's a great example of our collaborative approach. We really do work hand-in-hand with them. It can get messy at times, and we like that because we think involving them, again, early in the process and working with them – daily communications, weekly status calls, monthly reporting – that helps generate best results as possible on their behalf. ROB: It's really interesting because you jammed through that cadence of the daily, weekly, monthly. A lot of times when we talk to even very successful agencies, especially because I think maybe people come from a creative place, they don't mention that sort of process. How do you, with I think you said around 70 some employees, think about establishing that as a standard? How do you communicate those standards of cadence and make sure they're listened to and followed throughout the organization? Because they come from a place of wisdom. DAVE: Right, and that's really our commitment to our clients because things change so often. Daily communication is vital – not only for our big accounts, but also for some of our smaller accounts. We have, like a lot of agencies, larger agency of record relationships, and then we also have standalone public relations clients or website clients or creative services clients. It's important, no matter how big or small they are, to communicate daily. Again, that's part of our commitment. Then the weekly calls keep everybody on track – not only us, but also our clients. Particularly helpful for the larger clients. One of the things that we like to do is have one point of contact for our clients so they're not making four different calls. They're calling one person who can marshal the internal resources that are needed. One of the things we did that I think is interesting, a couple years ago – we used to have a standalone advertising division, a standalone interactive division, a public relations division, a multicultural division. We broke down those walls and those silos a couple years ago and implemented a more unified approach. It's not about whether they're an advertising client or a PR client; it's much more about what that client needs. Does it need strategy? Does it need creative? Is it a user experience website/responsive design approach that's needed? Is it content? Is it social? Is it search? It could be a number of things, and it's really about answering clients' needs and offering one-stop client solutions on their behalf. ROB: When you made that transition, did they have an account manager in each of those divisions before and you were able to streamline that to one trusted point of contact? How did that realign when you made that switch? DAVE: It was actually fairly seamless. We had, obviously, experts in each one of those areas, and we had a head of advertising and a chief creative officer and the head of our interactive division. Breaking down those silos – we still have subject matter experts, but it's about bringing them to bear on our clients' behalf rather than looking at it division by division, if that makes sense. ROB: For sure. DAVE: The reason for that is we found that it's like – what's the old saying? Trying to force a square peg into a round hole. We were slotting different clients into different divisions, and that's not always the case. They could be primarily a public relations client, but they're going to need a website or they're going to need a special event or they're going to need print or digital magazine execution, video. It's really about being more client-service-focused than anything else. ROB: Dave, what are some things you've learned as a marketing agency leader that you might do differently if you were starting again 10 years ago, or even further back in your career? DAVE: That's a very good question, Rob. I think the one thing that I would've done differently is I would have taken one of the client side opportunities that came my way over the years, because I've been in the agency business – all my career has been spent on the agency side of the business. Talk about a glutton for punishment. [laughs] But I probably would have taken one of the client side opportunities that came my way. I think I would've liked to have that experience, sitting in the client's chair and having the final say and making decisions on which campaigns run and why. In fact, one of those opportunities was in your neighborhood, with Turner Broadcasting System, interestingly enough. ROB: Oh, interesting. It's very common, I think, for people to bounce from brand side to agency side, sometimes drifting over to the vendor side. I think there is value in that empathy. I'm sure you have had plenty of people on your team that have had that experience, right? DAVE: Yeah. I think it's useful. I also teach a sports marketing class at ASU at the Cronkite School, and that question comes up a lot with students, because of course, they're thinking primarily, in sports marketing, “I want to work for a league or a team,” and they don't really understand all the other avenues of career development, whether it be in an agency like ours or a corporate sponsor or some of the other suppliers that are involved in sports marketing. But I do always recommend having both experiences, and again, I would have probably done that differently, to answer your question. ROB: You can also see quite often how many agencies, some of their longest running clients come from the relationship you're talking about. You have a relationship with the university, and the university is also a client. It's not a quid pro quo, but it's a relationship business. Someone who spends 5 years inside Coca-Cola, 5 years inside Home Depot, 5 years inside Blue Cross is going to have some very longstanding relationships to pull on. Not to say that you don't have those from being a trusted agency partner for people; it's just in some cases, it's different because you may have a former agency you can't pull that client from the same way you can if you left the brand and you're on the agency side. DAVE: That's a good point. I remember when I was general manager of Rogers & Cowan in Los Angeles, which is the big entertainment publicity firm, we had a number of different divisions, like television, film, music, product placement, consumer, etc. It was interesting; I always talked to the CEO about how there were really, really expert people, but they were what we call an inch wide and a mile deep, meaning they knew everything in the world about music, but it was hard to transfer those skills to say consumer marketing or corporate communications. I think this is true of clients as well. They get so deep into their area of expertise. I think it's the role of the agency to really bring best practices and other solutions, perhaps from other industries, to the table to get them to thinking beyond just what works in a specific market. ROB: One thing I imagine that's probably relatively new for Lavidge, and you're learning a little bit, but maybe you also have some lessons to learn, is this thing that many of us are doing perhaps not by choice right now, which is working in distributed teams, working remotely. You can't even get in a room if you want to, or at least you probably shouldn't amidst this coronavirus/COVID-19 crisis. What are some things you're learning, especially since you mentioned these cadences that you had? Are you learning some different habits that are helpful for teams that are at a distance now? DAVE: That's a great question, particularly given the challenging times that are upon us. I think one overriding principle is to be determined in what you do and not be fearful. Despite the current circumstance, there are opportunities. I'm very proud of our agency, as an example, because we quickly, a couple weeks ago, switched over to working remotely. It's been seamless. We just had an all staff meeting on Wednesday that we did remotely, and it worked remarkably well. We're doing that for our client teams. So there are some opportunities. I think in general, one of the things that I'm seeing is that brands can use this opportunity to step up and take action. There seems to be a common thread around brand purpose. You hear a lot of words like “authentic,” “useful,” “helpful,” “purposeful,” but I think it's really about leveraging brand power for good. ROB: It's a good reminder. You mentioned “helpful,” and I think if we all take a step back as marketers and as people who are communicating into the lives of other people, we probably realize – we should always be helpful, but I think it can get a little bit hard to remember that sometimes. When people are just out there spending money, everything's fine, people are looking to buy stuff, I think we can lose some of that helpfulness and get a little bit flashier. I think we maybe realize right now, this is not the time to ask for stuff from people, but it's time to be helpful to them. DAVE: Yeah, no question. Just the other day I was rereading the Harvard Business Review, an article about how to market in a recession, and maintaining marketing spending is important. It's not the time to cut advertising. It's well documented that brands that increase advertising during a recession or a situation like this when their competitors are cutting back can significantly improve market share and return on investment. But your point is well taken. It's also important to remember tonality. It's important to be authentic. It's important to be helpful. You think about some of the recent examples, like Ford and Tesla are using their factories to make ventilators, or Anheuser-Busch are using their distilleries to make hand sanitizer. Just a couple of examples of being authentic, being useful, being helpful. ROB: For sure. In some cases, with Budweiser, with Anheuser-Busch, I'd imagine that's even coming to them a little bit at the expense of their actual business. Ford may not be needing to make as many trucks, but if my social feeds are anything to be believed, Anheuser-Busch and their competitors are doing pretty well right now. A lot of people seem to be buying their product and talking about it. [laughs] DAVE: That's right. That's very true. But again, I think it's really about their brand purpose. I imagine they are doing very well, but it's also about being helpful and being purposeful in what they're doing to consumers at large. ROB: Perfect. Dave, when you're looking ahead – you mentioned in this time, you see opportunity. This is a time to seize opportunity. This is certainly not a time to be shy right now. We all feel probably some moments when we want to just chill out and check our brains out, but when we're done with that, what are some things that are coming up for Lavidge that you're excited about? DAVE: I think we're very excited about a number of areas. In this particular situation, the coronavirus/COVID-19, crisis communication is obviously important. We're staying very busy in that area, public relations experts. Two other areas that we're looking at are certainly ecommerce, given the remote learning and the remote situations that both we and our clients are facing, and then cause marketing – again, really talking about what you and I were just discussing: brand purpose, connecting a brand purpose with their business goals and making sure they stand for something that their consumers care about. So those are three areas that we're looking at. Before this came upon us, we were also looking at a number of other areas. One was the rise of experiential marketing as a strategy to engage consumers, using branded experiences, live marketing, event marketing. The whole idea is creating a memorable impact on the consumer. Obviously, two other areas that our digital team has really focused on is increased artificial intelligence, in-depth information about what consumers want and how that can be personalized and how that can personalize the buying experience based on someone's preferences. And then one of the areas that I'm really interested in personally is the whole brand solving business challenges by engaging young consumers through their passion for e-sports, gaming, as an example. Those are the areas we're looking at. ROB: It's really fascinating because a lot of times a 30-some-year-old agency would be very steeped in things they've done, but it sounds like, especially with that leadership team that you have around you, this company has been through multiple downturns and has grown and is still one of the largest in Arizona. I can hear in your description of the things you were thinking about, the things you're thinking about now, it's intentional but it's not opportunistic. It is tied to things you've been dong, but it's not overly tied to the plan that you had, and you're still trying to push really hard to find some way to do branded experiences. There may be something that emerges from that, but you're not going to do a big brand activation in a physical place right now. DAVE: Correct. I do think, to your point, it's important to be flexible. I think that's one of the reasons we've been extremely successful for almost 40 years. We do have a number of client innovations that we've developed for our clients, whether it's introducing new services such as account-based marketing or programmatic digital media, but it's also about improving traditional marketing methods. Innovation is not just about coming up with new solutions, but it's also about improving marketing and advertising, digital, public relations, social, website design and development, etc. So I think innovation comes in two areas: both coming up with new solutions as well as improving solutions that you've employed for clients in the past. ROB: Excellent. Dave, when people want to find you and they want to find Lavidge, where should they look? DAVE: We are in the Biltmore area of Phoenix, which is right on Camelback very close to the Biltmore Hotel, if you know where that's at. Certainly centrally located. Again, we're a full service agency, and I think that's important. Not that we don't have standalone clients, but usually we like to think of ourselves as a one-stop client solution. Those services include strategy. We do a lot of branding work, a lot of corporate communications work. That includes market research and customer segmentation. And then we have our creative services, so that's TV, radio, print, digital advertising. We have our own in-house video production capability, so it's not just TV ads. We're doing a number of videos, whether it's corporate videos, product videos, training videos, only videos. Then our digital expertise is really in two areas. One side of it is the website design/development, microsites, landing pages, mobile apps. The other side of that is all forms of digital marketing – search, both paid and organic, email marketing, lead gen, lead nurturing, ecommerce that I mentioned before. We even do custom loyalty programs for some of our clients. That's helped by the fact that we have our own in-house analytics department as well. Then in the public relations area, it's both traditional corporate communications and product publicity, but also content. As a number of agencies do, we're doing more and more content creation/content management, whether that be videos, blogs, infographics, whitepapers, etc., and mapping that out to make sure it syncs with traditional public relations. It's nice to have all those client solutions, if you will, under one roof and available to our clients. Now, some of our clients are using all those services; some are using the services that are most needed for them. ROB: Got it. That's excellent, Dave. It looks like they should also probably, if they're looking for you online, go to lavidge.com. Is that right? DAVE: That's correct. Lavidge.com. You'll see on our website a lot of the information that I just talked through. You had asked about some of our core areas of expertise, and in three of those areas – there's more, but certainly using healthcare as an example, we did our own marketing report. We literally conducted research to determine which messages are most resonating with consumers, which marketing tactics are more successful than others. So we did a whole research study, which is available on our website. Additionally, that's reinforced by a number of whitepapers that were written by our subject matter experts, whether it be digital, creative, strategy, to really walk through and bring to life some of those findings. All of that is available on the website, Lavidge.com. ROB: Perfect. Thank you so much, Dave. It's been great to have you on the podcast, and I'm grateful for all you shared about the journey of Lavidge and how sustained that business has been in a really admirable way. DAVE: It's my pleasure, Rob. Thank you very much for the time. I enjoyed it. ROB: Take care. Thank you. DAVE: Thank you. ROB: Thank you for listening. The Marketing Agency Leadership Podcast is presented by Converge. Converge helps digital marketing agencies and brands automate their reporting so they can be more profitable, accurate, and responsive. To learn more about how Converge can automate your marketing reporting, email info@convergehq.com, or visit us on the web at convergehq.com.

What preparation is necessary to make a contribution to yourself and society? In Part 1 of this two-part episode, Dan and Ed interview David Nathaniel Berger who is currently in Denmark working with the International Work Group For Indigenous Affairs. We ask David to identify the pivotal experiences he had growing up, his middle and high school preparation, his time at Arizona State University and the Barrett Honors College, his internship at the American Consulate in Milan, Italy, his experiences with the American Red Cross, his 3-year service with the Peace Corps, his recognition and work as an Erasmus Mundas Scholar in Poland and Denmark, and his work in his current position. How did a focus on Global Affairs set him on such an exciting and productive path?

Josh Elizetxe grew up in West Phoenix, graduated as the Valedictorian from Alhambra High School. At 20 years old, he graduated with Summa Cum Laude honors from the Barrett Honors College and W. P. Carey School of Business at Arizona State. While at ASU, Josh was very active in many organizations including the Hispanic Business Student Association and Business Ambassadors. As a teenager, he created Foresold, an Internet advertising company. In addition to running an agency, managing dozens of team members and Fortune 500 projects, Josh and his team built several owned-and-operated Internet companies. Eventually selling the agency side of their business, Foresold now focuses on creating or acquiring Internet businesses. Foresold is a private portfolio of profitable, multi-million dollar businesses. Today, Josh is a highly sought-after advisor and successful entrepreneur. Even more important to Josh, he spends a majority of his year involved in giving back to the community and working with community leaders to invigorate the city, including advising on the board of the Phoenix Coding Academy. Every month, tens of millions of people visit Foresold's company owned web properties and Josh's committed vision for the future of the Internet is leading the charge.

This week our guest is Mark Jacobs, the dean of Barrett Honors College at Arizona State University.  He came to ASU in the fall of 2003 from Swarthmore College, where he had held an endowed chair in biology and had been both chair of the Biology Department and associate provost of the College. He received his B.A. magna cum laude from Harvard in biology and earned his Ph.D. at Stanford University in biological sciences. During his tenure at Barrett Honors College, Dean Jacobs has overseen tremendous growth, and during our conversation, he shares his story, the influences in his life, and his approach to leading and learning which influence the way he approaches his job and the students and culture at Barrett. You will also want to be sure you have listened to our episode with  Ambassador Barbara Barrett! SELECT LINKS FROM THE PODCAST 1491

Dan and I have striven to learn about the insights of graduates of American K-12 schools and American universities who have gone on to study in other countries.  Our guest for this Podcast graduated from Prescott High School and the Barrett Honors College at Arizona State University. He did his graduate work in Denmark at the University of Copenhagen. He has lived in Denmark for six and a half years. Alex is a millennial driven by curiosity who is a well-known travel blogger and who has immersed himself in over fifty countries. He is a renowned photographer and videographer. Most important, he is an acute observer of others and the effects of quality education. His book, Practical Curiosity (http://practicalcuriosity.com), will be available from November 2017.

Serena Goldstein, ND is a naturopathic doctor in New York City specializing in naturally balancing hormones such as menses, menopause, libido, and inability to lose weight, where she utilizes herbs, nutrition, and homeopathy to get to the root cause of disease. She graduated Cum Laude, double majored in Psychology and Biology from Barrett Honors College at Arizona State University, and received her Naturopathic Doctorate from National College of Natural Medicine in Portland, OR. In addition to being in her own practice, Dr. Serena has been featured in prominent health and wellness resources like MindBodyGreen, GreenMedInfo, and Better Nutrition, as well as a member of the Advisory Board for Natural Practitioner Magazine, and volunteer at the NYU-Hospital Poison Control Center.   www.drserenagoldstein.com http://twitter.com/drserena http://instagram.com/drserenand http://pinterest.com/drserenag https://www.linkedin.com/in/drserenand https://www.facebook.com/DrSerenaND