Podcast appearances and mentions of Robert Kiyosaki

If sales have started to feel heavy, frustrating, or emotionally draining, the problem may not be your strategy—it may be your mindset. In this episode, Ray Higdon explains why sales feels hard and how simple mindset shifts can immediately change your experience and results. Most salespeople unknowingly tie their emotions to outcomes, rejection, and responses. But top performers detach from results and instead anchor themselves in activity, patience, and consistency. You will learn how to stop fearing rejection, why becoming addicted to activity transforms performance, and how shifting from "trying to close" to simply "seeing who's open" reduces pressure and increases conversions. Ray also explains why consistency, courage, and stepping outside your comfort zone are essential for success to become inevitable. —  

Keith breaks down where the U.S. housing market appears to be headed and which regions and states are quietly winning or losing in the population shuffle since 2020—and what that could mean for real estate investors.  You'll also hear about an intriguing cash-flow play in single-family rentals in select Southern markets. Then, Keith is joined by financial strategist and comedian Garrett Gunderson, who challenges the usual "scrimp and save" advice. Together, they explore how to build real wealth without sacrificing your life today, how high-net-worth individuals often get money wrong, and a different way to think about financial independence, freedom, and investing in yourself. Resources: Get Garrett Gunderson's Killing Sacred Cows audiobook free: DM @GarrettBGunderson on Instagram with the words "Keith Cows." Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/595 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, is the future direction of the housing market trending up or trending down? Which states have seen the most population growth? Then powerful wealth mindset tactics with a financial comedian today on get rich education   Speaker 1  0:20   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads and 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and keep top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:04   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Speaker 2  1:38   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:54   Welcome to GRE from Mount Rainier to Mount Rushmore and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. I am not a Lambo driving influencer that will take any brand deal just to shill a gambling platform instead. Our core strategy at GRE is aging. Well, I've spoken with a lot of LP investors with capital calls and deals that lost all their money. Well, we approach wealth building with discipline and consistency. It doesn't sound dazzling, but it really shines when things go wrong elsewhere, because at least for the core of our portfolios, we get long term fixed rate debt for income property get paid five ways and win the inflation triple crown, and we do it all with a high degree of passivity. Right before I took the mic today, I got a two sentence email from a property manager that said an air conditioning unit's air handler board had to be replaced for $420 I don't even know what an air handler board really is. Now, the manager sent some photos in a written estimate. I quickly checked chat GPT, and I saw that the price was about right, and replied to my manager to go ahead and have that done. That's it an example of relative passivity. US residential real estate has nominally appreciated over every single 10 year period in modern history, despite some occasional short term downturns, even those are not common. Well, we recently had a guest mention that it's 20 years at the longest like 20 years or less is the period of time between which real estate never goes down. He was right. But you actually can't find any 10 year period where home values fell. What about the 2008 global financial crisis, I think that's the first place that the mind goes. Well back then, home values bottomed out at 208k in 2009 before they started growing again. And 10 years before that, the median price it was 157k in 1999 so even when home values hit their GFC low at that point, they were still up 32% from the previous 10 years. So you can confidently say then that over any 10 year period, home prices are up nationally. Now, how about the future? Well, for the future, there is more evidence of rising home prices. Building permits for new homes have fallen to their lowest level since 2019 that's according to the census bureau. So fewer single family homes are being built. Now we plan to discuss that more on. Next week show when we dive deep on does America really have a housing shortage? But this week, more reasons for future home price bullishness is that the labor market now, it's not doing that great. It sure isn't white hot, but unemployment, which was already low, that recently dropped a touch lower to just 4.3% inflation has fallen to 2.4% and wages are rising faster than that. In fact, our own Fed Chair recently remarked at how he's surprised at the strength of the economy. The property market analytics firm kotality, they now expect home prices to appreciate another four and a half percent this year. They and other firms continue to believe that the Midwest will be the hottest area of home price growth even more than that four and a half percent in that region. That is because not only is the Midwest underbuilt, it's that the prices are so affordable that it's attracting young people. The other factor is that mortgage rates recently dipped just below six into the high fives again, and that can release this pent up housing demand, and think about where we've come from. In late 2023 mortgage rates were about 8% and now lower mortgage rates also reduce the lock in effect, so it can create both more sellers and more buyers. The thing to remember is that 70% to 80% of home sellers are also home buyers because they've got to live somewhere. And first time homebuyers, of course, they buy only, they don't sell anything. In fact, former GRE guest in housing wire lead analyst Logan modeshami and Barry Habib were just positing on this at housing wire's latest summit on how the volume of home sales has been depressed for so long that lower rates could very well trigger a rush of buyers, these kind of people that have been delaying purchasing for years, this pent up housing demand being released if indeed rates go lower. People think they know the future, but we don't really know that that's going to happen for sure. But a lot of optimism about this phase of the housing market supported by not great, but decent economic conditions. Of course, that new housing demand is going to manifest unevenly across the nation. So let's talk about the places that have seen the most population growth from 2020 to today, basically the states that support that housing demand. Well, between 2020 and today, the US has grown by about 10 million people. That's over 3% nearly every state grew. But the bigger story is where that growth is happening. And really, here's the jaw dropper as a region, the South, gained more people than all of the other regions combined, about 7.6 million new residents in the south since 2020 the South's population is up 6% the West's almost 2% the Midwest population is up more than 1% and The Northeast up seven tenths of 1% again, this is not per year. This is total population growth from 2020 to today, Florida and Texas, they led the nation among the big states, both up almost 9% sprinting like they just found out that income tax is optional. The Carolinas in Tennessee are big southern growers too. People clearly keep moving toward warmer weather, a lower cost of living, lower taxes and job markets. Nothing new there. California in New York are the biggest losers in absolute numbers, California losing half of 1% of population in New York, a full 1% people keep moving away from these traditionally expensive, high tax coastal states like a buffet when the crab legs run out, people just getting up and leaving. That's not any sort of news story there, either. These trends help cash flow residential real estate investors like us, because the south aligns with that favorable landlord tenant law and those high ratios of rent income to purchase price. Luckily for us, that's where people are moving too. The Midwest has those phenomena as well, although their growth has been slower.    Keith Weinhold  9:39   Now a few Midwest highlights for you. Since 2020 the population of Indiana is up 2.8% quietly benefiting from Illinois. Escape Velocity, Missouri up almost 2% and that's growing mostly in Kansas City and St Louis suburbs. Ohio at almost 1% that's pretty modest growth overall, but Columbus up 5% that is flexing like it just landed a semiconductor plant there in Columbus, the intermountain west has bicep bulging growth, but it rarely works for us, because rents are only a little higher, but property prices are way higher. Yes, those pretty Rocky Mountain states, great Instagram, tough cash flow now Louisiana, it is a state that confounds people. It's a warm place, and it has a low cost of living, you would think Louisiana would be attracting people in droves for those reasons. Well, then why is its population following Louisiana down nine tenths of 1% since 2020 Well, you've got bleak job prospects that make Louisianans leave its tax competitiveness ranks 31st property insurance costs are high thanks to environmental risk. Louisiana has more swamps than beaches. Even the NFL saints were six and 11, and if they had made the playoffs, that wouldn't have made people move back. And hey, no personal shade here, I enjoy going to the New Orleans investment conference in Cajun culture, in Airboat Tours through the alligator filled Bayou, fun stuff, but for income producing property, you got to seek out different characteristics than just vacation Glee or how Good the gumbo tastes keep emotion separate from investing, Hawaii is America's biggest percentage loser. Its population is down one and a half percent since 2020 its cost of living is stratospherically high, with a median home value of just a little over a million dollars. That results in net outmigration to the mainland parts of the Aloha state now experience natural decrease. That means that deaths exceed births. Natural decrease. That's mostly a phenomenon on the Big Island. That's not where Honolulu is. That's where you have Kona and Hilo when young people can't afford to stay demographic gravity kicks in population loss. Hawaii is also highly dependent on tourism, meaning more volatility in recessions. It has contractor availability issues and higher repair costs, partly due to shipping materials to the remote islands. What about the upsides of Hawaiian real estate? Well, you're just going to have this inherent, strong, long term land scarcity and lifestyle desirability overall. Hawaii isn't bad. It's just hard. And I like Hawaii as a place to vacation, so the best times in my life were in Hawaii. Now, with all this said, These are broad generalities about states which are big places themselves right now. There are certainly Missouri real estate investors listening to me that are actually losing, and Hawaii real estate investors that are winning, and even cash flow positive. I'm talking general trends here, and this is with respect to long term rentals, not short term rentals. If your rent to price ratio is as low as point three or point four, like it often is near the coasts, well then you are speculating on appreciation. That's what that means. All 50 states have opportunity. All 50 states have no go zones. People keep moving south. That's a trend that the pandemic accelerated six years ago. More opportunity is concentrated there. That's got nothing to do with vacation excitement. That is population math, and I'm talking about swimming with the tide here in our Don't quit your Daydream newsletter I recently sent you that colorful population change map that I was describing some of there. More recently, I also emailed you that great and rare map of landlord friendly versus tenant friendly states mapped out and a lot of other great stuff.    Keith Weinhold  14:17   Before we bring in our firebrand guest, Garrett Gunderson, I just learned about a really strong opportunity for a provider of single family rentals and duplexes in Memphis and Little Rock. They're providing a locked in 5% interest rate and 5% property management for five years. Yeah, that's not a throwback to 2020 it's what mid south homebuyers calls their triple five program. They are the oldest and most trusted, maybe turnkey investment provider in the country, operating since 2002 and what they do is they offer these fully renovated, occupied rental properties in Memphis and Little Rock, two of the strongest cash flow markets in the South. With financing and management and rates that make the math work like it hasn't in years. So again, 5% interest, 5% property management fees for a full five years. You know those markets, they already had these investor advantage numbers with rent to price ratios mere point eight in Memphis and Little Rock. But yeah, that low 5% mortgage rate, even for renovated properties, not just new build. That's the kind of spread that turns a good deal into a great one. So to give you an idea, if you get a 30 year fixed rate mortgage loan amount of 125k with a 7% mortgage rate, your principal and interest payment is 832, at a 5% rate, it's just 671, so that's $160 more cash flow right there, and it's made a tad sweetener than that with just a 5% Property Management rate. And I don't know how long that offer is going to last, but it is available now and for the next little while, you can ask about it. When you visit mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com and you can ask them about their triple five program. More next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 595, of get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  16:19   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio, through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre. You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989 Yep. Text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Dani-Lynn Robison  18:08   this is freedom family investments. Co founder, Danny Lynn Robinson, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. You Brenda.   Keith Weinhold  18:24   Today's guest is someone that America knows as the long haired, bearded money guy in the past, he's drawn physical appearance comparisons to Jesus Christ. He's a prominent financial strategist. Founded an eight figure company, hit the Inc 500 he's both a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling author. He is just an electric speaker, including appearances in front of dozens of billionaires. And he's just got this great way of speaking to financial freedom that hits you differently. He even has a comedy special that's great to welcome back to the show. Garrett Gunderson,   Garrett Gunderson  19:02   that's good to be back. Man. Is really good. Love your energy. Has a nice intro.   Keith Weinhold  19:07   Well, you give a lot of like, nice guidance to people that's somewhat different than they're used to hearing. You know, Garrett, I think a lot of the conventional guidance is, you know, it's not very far above Elementary School advice like, put your credit card in the freezer so you don't use it too often, but a lot of times you speak to either business owners or people that have already had some success, and I think a lot of your underlying mantra is, hey, you better live your best life now   Garrett Gunderson  19:35   I kind of feel like you are your greatest asset, and if you starve out that asset because you don't feed it with knowledge, or you don't invest in yourself, or you don't gain the skills that really matter because you're so addicted to scrimping and sacrificing and building your balance sheet right, trying to build savings accounts and retirement plans and doing all you can to pay off that mortgage. Yeah, you could become a millionaire on paper. But will you live like one? Will you enjoy your. Life. What about all the memories that you miss along the way? What about having quality of life today and creating a life you don't want to retire from? The wealthy people, they didn't get that way because they shrunk their way there. They didn't get that way because they were amazing budgeters. They built businesses. They created value. They learned how to, you know, sell or speak or market or have business acumen that grow business or to hire people, and having those systems that actually impact more people or more deeply impact the people that they serve, because it's about value creation and their value creators. And I think this notion of just thinking, Oh, I could just trade time for money and set money aside. Man, that's a really painful way to get to a million dollars, but Northwestern Mutual, they just put out an article that said, 32 or 34% of millionaires don't feel wealthy, because if you have money tied up in an account that isn't kicking off cash flow, it doesn't feel like wealth. You can't spend that net worth. It's just a statement if you don't learn how to create cash flow. And I love financial independence, where people have cash flow from assets to cover their expenses now their lifestyle is covered from that cash flow. Now they can reinvest every active dollar into themselves and their quality of life, into more cash flowing assets, into taking trips along the way, not just waiting until they're too old to enjoy it.   Keith Weinhold  21:13   You work with business owners all the time, and you've even worked with some ultra high net worth people that still seemed to scrimp and save. Do you think really, what is that the function of? Is it more of the wrong mindset or the wrong tactics when someone acts that way?   Garrett Gunderson  21:32   It's a mindset that's really kind of handed down to them? Yeah, maybe from their parents or grandparents or from a different era, like there's people that were, you know, in the Great Depression, that then tells stories to their family about how tough it was, and you never know when that money could go away. So you got to hold tight, and it's a scarcity mindset. So one of the wealthiest clients I ever had, I mean, this was a guy who he was worth a lot of money, but you would never know it. I saw him on TV one day. I was like, Dude, he needs new clothes, and we found a strategy to save him a bunch of money. He was just buying his inventory with cash or like, let's buy it on a plum card, and you'll get cash back. I just said, Just take 10% of that cash back, which was over $100,000 a month, and spend it on yourself. He's like, Well, I wouldn't know to spend it on I'm like, Well, how about some new clothes to start with? He's like, Okay. And then the next month, he bought a nest system for his house. The next month he bought a sound system. Eventually, saved up enough money to buy a Tesla, which he really wanted, like it was money that was there for him, but it changed his entire paradigm, because now he had a quality of life. He was very philanthropic and donated money. He built massive businesses, but he never treated himself well. He'd never felt like it was okay to spend that money because of his upbringing, because the way that his parents viewed money and the way that their parents viewed money, and it was always something that felt scarce. So it felt like, okay, will this go away? And the reality was, we just found money in your couch cushions, essentially. So why not enjoy it along the way? He eventually bought a home that he loved on the water, that he loves the garden. I mean, it was like a total transformation with that one simple thing to help him heal his relationship with money, overcome scarcity, because he was already highly productive. He just had to break free from this budgetary mindset.   Keith Weinhold  23:09   That's great. It was almost like, Dude, I can see it in you. Before we even talk. You got that code off the rack at Burlington. I swear you can do better than this. Come on, now   Garrett Gunderson  23:17    30 years ago, 30 years ago too. You know, it doesn't even fit anymore.   Keith Weinhold  23:23   Well, you know, I recently dedicated a complete episode Garrett to the way I put it is that the risk of delayed gratification is denied gratification. Now, there are some good things to be said for delayed gratification, I think, especially when you're younger, or you're just starting out in the working world, and you just tried to cover rent for your apartment and you don't have much else. Delaying some gratification is good. You need to form capital. You need to get liquid. I try to avoid saying stacking savings, because that gets people in the mindset of becoming super savers sometimes, and they miss out on returns. But what I mean about the risk of delayed gratification, being denied gratification, if it's taken too great of an extent, is, you know, I'm talking about the guy where, when he was 24 he used to say, Oh, I'm going to visit the Galapagos Islands someday. That's what I want to do. But you can just tell by the time you talk to the dude, when he's 48 he begins to use the past tense for things he wanted to do, for example, then he might start saying, Oh, well, I guess I never did visit the Galapagos Islands. You know, you can tell with people when they use the past tense, and that's when you know that their future is not bigger than their past, and a lot of that is the reflection of their financial status.   Garrett Gunderson  24:40   I got married at age 23 and the first two years, well, it was really like the first year and a half, maybe I was just such a miser. I gave my wife a $400 a month budget for an apartment, and we found out that there's places you don't want to live in Utah. I didn't know it, but she's like, is this what you want? And I was like, This doesn't feel like a safe neighborhood. And then you. Know, I was like, All right, maybe $600 I was still kind of really scarce. And my parents were like, Why don't you just live in our basement, rent free, and my wife's like, sex free. If you think that's where we're living, I'm gonna live in my parents basement, you know? Because I just thought money was something to save. So I saved me over 50% of my income. And a lot of people were like, that's amazing. Congratulations. Great job. And so I felt really good about it, and then I realized that my business wasn't growing as fast as this other person my age. I met him at an event, and a year later, he was doing better. And I was like, Dude, what's going on? I could hear it in your voice. I could hear like, you're just a different person. He goes, Oh, I'm doing two things. One, I just hired this guy, Steve D'Annunzio, and he changed my entire life. And I was like, I need to meet him. He's like, he happens to be here in Vegas. He's from Rochester. Introduced me. I hired him as my coach right away. I'm hearing all these people talk about strategic coach at the same event, and they had a booth. So I signed up for Strategic Coach, which meant I had to part with some of my money. Think it was $7,500 I hired Steve as a one on one mentor, and all of a sudden I was investing in myself, yeah. And I broke free from those chains of like, reduction and restriction into the game of production. And then I even had a situation where a woman called me out at the same event. This was a life changing event where she's like, I wonder what it's like living in a financial prison you built for your wife. It's like, Oh, see, that's what happened. I thought I was responsible, and building that responsibility that's actually building walls. And when I came home for that event, my wife and I started looking for our home. Within a few months, we found one. I bought a home. It was very easily within my means. I basically made as much as I paid for this house that we loved. We lived there for nine years. We built so many memories. You know, we had our two kids while we were there, I started host study groups, and that year, I grew my income by $170,000 with the coaching of strategic coach, Steve dnunzio And this woman, Nancy, calling me out. The next year, it grew by even more because the skills started to compound. I decided from that moment forward, I would spend at least $40,000 a year, which I might be able to reach for some people, but at least $40,000 a year on mentors. Is a guy named Alan. He writes my meal plans and my workouts, and I'm at 10% body fat because he knows exactly what they do. I do what he says. It was worth this $10,000 investment, because now I pay attention what I pay for, and I look at like if I'm my greatest asset, how can I create more energy? How can I create more value? How can I feel better about myself? How can I show up the very best version of I am, so I can deliver the most to the other people. And so I've always just been in amazing groups. I just got back from two different events in Beverly Hills around amazing people, learning incredible things that allow me to grow. I haven't spent a huge amount of money on a mentor last year to figure out something that I hadn't been able to figure out to this point. It's the same thing I did to become a speaker, to become a writer or even learn how to sell or market, you've got to invest in the skill, not just in the savings account. You grow yourself first, and then you grow your money. If you starve yourself out because you're in that miserly mindset, you're going to stunt your growth and never be fully fulfilled.   Keith Weinhold  27:56   You're your own best investment. And yes, this stuff is the varying definition of investing in yourself. Don't live below your means. Grow your means and all of that.   Garrett Gunderson  28:05   Grow your means and be more efficient within your means. I mean, the best way I know how to save is not overpay on tax, which 98% of business owners are doing that today. You know, don't overpay on interest, because you either restructure your loans, renegotiate your interest rates, reallocate underpouring funds to pay it off, or you remove investment drag. A lot of people have unnecessary fees and hidden commissions that drag on their investments. Or just design your insurance properly so it's more efficient. Those four i's, IRS, interest, investments and insurance show you how to keep more of what you make, take some of that money, build up your foundation so you have a peace of mind fund, so you have staying power, at least six months of liquidity and then invest more into yourself or learn how to create cash flow. This is the game the wealthy play. But the poor middle class, they think it's about paying off a mortgage and funding the retirement plan, and they will argue about it until it's too late, when they get there and now their homes paid off, but the property taxes are higher than their mortgage was 20 years ago, you know. Or they have home maintenance they have to take care of, or inflation has destroyed the value. Like if someone were to put away 100 grand and they wait for 30 years if they got 10% which the market did the last 30 years, if you reinvest dividends, they're going to have right around $1.7 million but if they have to pay 2% in fees, fiduciary fees, 12 b1 fees, which are marketing fees for the fund expense ratio, you know, the fees of maybe a retirement plan, and they now have 2% fees. It only goes to 1.1 million. Huge difference. And that 1.1 million if we account for inflation, even if we said inflation was low, like 2.7% over that 30 years. Well, by the time we pay for inflation and tax, guess what? The purchasing power value is like, 300 grand $300,000 that's a problem, and it's because they didn't learn to create cash flow. It's because they didn't learn to invest in themselves. It's because they relied completely on a market they don't control. I'm not saying the market is completely something to avoid. I'm saying we go in sequence. How do you grow your income for. First, then how do you keep more of the income you make with? You know, financial savvy and plugging leaks. Then learn to grow your money, but maybe growing your money. For some I like to think of like three dimensional assets, like real estate's three dimensional. It can grow in equity, it can create cash flow, and it has tax advantages. But my business is three dimensional, the more my business creates cash flow, without me, the more equity it has, and that business has major tax advantages. So most people are one dimensional, pay off a loan, put a money in retirement account. That's the poor, middle class. Wealthy people build a system where they've got three dimensional assets, equity, cash flow and tax savings. And that is a complete game changer, because then they can employ the buy borrowed I strategy, if you have assets like, you know, an individual stock, or if you have assets, like a piece of real estate or a business, you could borrow against it. There's no tax on that five for life, right? You keep refinancing. Or you can even do charitable trust to avoid the taxes upon the sell of those paying no tax when there's gains. Or you can pass it on to the next generation with a step up in basis, which means they get it at the full value and not have to pay the difference. And if you have life insurance, the life insurance will pay back the loan that tax free as well. So buy, borrow, die. I mean, it's a completely different thought process of defer taxes. If you defer taxes, I get it. You could do a Roth IRA or Roth 401. K Sure, that'll let you put after tax money in and grow it. But where's the cash flow? What's the underlying investment? How does it help you create financial independence? How does it help you does it help you grow your skills to become a better investor? We've been taught to be lazy, not that people are lazy. We've just been taught to be lazy with our money. We've been fed a narrative. I don't have the time, I don't have the skill, I don't have the interest, but I want to have it, so I just hand it over. And who do we hand it over to Keith Wall Street. Wall would you trust Wall Street? Like you flew to Frankfurt not long ago. Would you get on Wall Street airlines where they're like, hey, sometimes our planes go up, sometimes they go down. That would brand, and he'd feel inspired, right? Would you go to Wall Street, you know, hospital? Or like, hey, he lost one of your kidneys, and by loss, we stole it and resold it. You know, like, Wall Street doesn't have a brand. That's good. It's boiler room. It's Wolf of Wall Street. It's the movie Wall Street with Michael Douglas. You know, greed is good like yet that's what people put their money into. And you can go to any downtown and any major city, and guess who has the biggest buildings, insurance companies, banks and Wall Street investment companies. So you're taking the size of your home and shrinking it to build up their building and put money in their pocket. And their story is, it's because they're Ivy League, they're smart. They try to make it complicated, but you don't have to know most of the things you think you need to know about finance. The foundational things are important, how to protect your assets, how to design insurance, to transfer risk, how to have some liquidity, how to automate your savings. And then you focus like Warren Buffett would teach. He said, You know how people would become a better investor if they only had 20 investments they could make over their lifetime? He says, I don't diversify because I'm in the know. He's like, I'm a good businessman, therefore I'm a good investor and I'm a good investor because I'm a good businessman. I don't separate the two. Yeah, most people think he's a stock market investor. No, he buys out the companies in the stock market. Rarely does he have minority stakes in it. He does have some of that, maybe with Coca Cola and apple, but he bought a lot of companies outright, whether it was Geico, whether it was See's Candies, whether it was like he buys these companies, he's so far outperformed the stock market by billions of dollars from an index fund like what he has, versus someone that put the same money in an index fund, Warren has billions more from his investments than the person that put all their money in the index fund, even if it was the same amount. It's completely about strategy, not about luck.   Keith Weinhold  33:30   Yeah, it's the Andrew Carnegie, put all your eggs in one basket and then watch your basket. Yeah? Watch that basket like a hawk. Totally. Yeah. I mean, stacks mutual funds, they have what I call those five simultaneous drags. If you think you're getting a 10% long term return over time, subtract out inflation, emotion, taxes, fees and volatility. What do you have left? Not much. But there's no friction there. It is just the easiest thing to do ever since decades ago, 401 K contributions begin to become automated throughout your paycheck, sometimes even automatically, automated   Garrett Gunderson  34:04   values your permission opt out. It's easy. You have to opt out, right? It's Big Brother. You don't know what's best for you. And by the way, how crazy are four one K's. Part of the reason the market has gone up in value is because people consistently fund for one case, whether the market's going up or down, they're told $8 cost average. So that's artificially fueling the market. When we see the numbers, there's a buffet index, and it's like 2.9 times higher than what he's comfortable with, with the stock market, because of how overinflated the market is, partially due to inflation, partially because people put money in. But let's remember, why did 401, K's even come about? Because pensions failed. And by the way, these pensions failed and they had world class money managers managing these multi billion dollar pensions, but they didn't know about something called disinvesting, or didn't know enough about it. When the market goes down and pension money is owed, they still have to pull money out of the pension to pay the employee which disinvests, which pulls more money out of the account. So now instead of just being 10% down, they might be 17% down. And so even if the market comes back 10% it's 10% of only 83% of the money. So not even back to square one. And if it goes down a second year in a row, they're in real trouble. It starts to chip away at the principal, and they can't recover. And that happened to pensions, and they said, Oh, here, we can't handle these. We're going bankrupt. We're going to get rid of pensions. You take care of it. Well, guess what? Vanguard says, the average balance in a 401, k right now is $148,000 how someone's supposed to live on $148,000 even if you could get 10% that's $14,800 a year taxable, that's not going to do it. Even if you have a million dollars, where are you going to put the million dollars to get the return without risking it going down? Maybe you're going to be in treasuries at 5% that's $50,000 taxable per year. You're a millionaire on paper, but living poorly. That's why I'm here to call these things out. I think that my book Killing Sacred Cows, which was my original New York Times bestseller, which is probably how we met. Yeah, I rewrote it. I rewrote it, rereleased it in 2024 and I'll give people the audiobook. They just have to DM me on Instagram. Garrett B Gunderson and DM the word cows with Keith's name, cows and Keith or Keith and cows. I'll hook you up with the book for free, so you can learn about the nine financial myths. We're talking about some of them here, but there's also some comedy in there, so they can laugh after each chapter. I threw some comedy in there. You know, if you like my comedy, I'm not the funniest comedian. I'm just the funniest money comedian. That's the reality.   Keith Weinhold  36:33   When we had the very inventor of the 401 k plan, Ted benna, come onto the show, he revealed to us that when 401 K plans rolled out, they were first called salary reduction plans. They had to scrap that name in order to foster participation. But reducing your salary is still principally what it does to you. You got to think about it that way and blow up some of these myths. But Garrett, you've already given a lot of great technical information about what someone can do, how someone can think differently. Bigger pictures, we're sort of winding down here. You know, when I'm thinking about this whole delayed versus denied gratification thing, how do you meter it out right throughout your life? I mean, what's your earmark your family legacy? How do you meter it out, right so you don't have too much or too little at the end of your life?   Garrett Gunderson  37:15   I like to see this strategy of, like, what would the rockfellers do that I wrote about is, you know, the beginning before that strategy is you pay yourself first, which has always been around Richest Man in Babylon. Tons of books talk about it. My argument is you want to pay yourself at least 15% of your personal income, off the top, to a separate account. Once you get six months in that account, now you start to invest that money, but you build your stability with that peace of mind. And we want 15% because the luxury once enjoyed becomes a necessity. So you want more money in the future, not the future, not less propensity to you know, there's also, just like planned obsolescence, things break down. You have to repair them. Technological change, we're buying new technology that doesn't even exist. I have now subscriptions to a bunch of AI things that help me out, right? But I'm spending more money. There's also taxes, those could go up in the future, or 38 trillion in debt as we film this, which is a crazy number. And there's also inflation. If we give 3% to each of those five factors, that's 15% now again, use the four i's, IRS, interest, investments and insurance to find that money, not just budgeting. But then here's the magic. At least 3% of your income should go to a separate account called the Living wealthy account. That's your guilt free spending, value based spending account, so you enjoy some money along the way. These are the things that are the finer things in life that people might say are wasteful. You know, there's a book called unreasonable hospitality that talks about this, 11 Madison Avenue was the number one rated restaurant in the world. And, you know, will who wrote the book talked about they had 3% of their budget to just go wild on their customers dream making money, right? So to create the special experience in the restaurant, and even the bear, I think was season three, showed some of that process of how they do that. So I highly recommend taking a certain percentage. You get to enjoy along the way. It could be higher than 3% but start there, and you're going to feel better, you're going to have different energy, you're going to show up in a different way. And then from there, I just believe in having trust, so that your money's outside of your estate, and protecting financial predators so you own nothing but control everything. And I personally use life insurance. I use just standard over, you know, like basically properly structured, optimally funded whole life, so that death benefit will come in after I die. It allows me to spend more of my money and then have it replenished so I can enjoy more of my money along the way, because I know that death benefit will be there for my wife or even for my family trust after I'm gone, so I don't disinherit the people that I love.   Keith Weinhold  39:31   Garrett Gunderson, he can take you through these steps, which he calls financially fit, to financially independent, and then finally to financially free. Tell us a little more about that going through those steps.   Garrett Gunderson  39:44   So financial fitness means your financial house is in order. You've got everything handled properly, car insurance, homeowners, liability, disability, medical life insurance, your corporate structures as a business owner, how you pay yourself, your taxes the last three years and move. Moving forward your investments. It's like, you know what it's going on. You've improved your cash flow, and you're dialed in. You're as safe as you could possibly be. Then financial independence is, how can we create income, especially from a business that comes in when you don't, that's people, that's processes, that's technology, so that you can be involved, but you don't have to be involved. This is the part most people miss, yeah, and I think it's crazy. A lot of people have this notion they're just going to work so hard so they can sell their business one day, I'm like, What about just creating a business that you love so much you don't want to sell it? What about giving up the things that are burning you out and have the employees that can take care of that so you do the things that you love and then just enjoy life along the way, take some little trips, take some time off and come back in. The business grows up when you're away, they learn how to do things without you, and then you can still create value into that business. I sold the business in 2021 and really regretted it, because I kind of was so removed from the business. I kind of felt like it lost its soul and I didn't feel connected to it. So this time around, I started a business in July of 2024 I'm like, I'm only going to work with the P with the people I love, building things that I love, and I'm not going to let myself get burned out by doing too much. We're going to take two weeks in Hawaii coming up here in April, just enjoy some time together as a family. We do quarterly family retreats with my wife and kids. We do traditions with my family up at my cabin, like I want to have this great life where it's blurs the lines between work and play. I have a little quote from someone else that talks about that art of life is blurring the lines between work and play, but also just having complete play sometimes that there is no work. So I come back refreshed, relaxed, rejuvenated and ready to create. And so really, that financial independence gives you permission to swing for the fences and what you do, knowing your foundation is handled, knowing that your lifestyle is covered, from assets to create cash flow gives you work optional freedom. But instead of retiring, think, what could your biggest impact be like? Create the life you don't want to retire from. Create a vision so compelling you can dedicate your life to it and find that the win is actually in the work, not just the outcome. I think that is the elegance of we win when we play, and when we have more play in our life. We don't try to escape from something. And when you start something, you might have to do things you hate, but you can eventually delegate it, and then life becomes great. I mean, one of my early coaches, Dan Sullivan, who I mentioned, a strategic coach. He's in his 80s, still behemoth of creating value in the in the market. To listen to him, you know, he's phenomenal. He's made such a huge difference in my life, and he has no intent of retiring. He just gets smarter every year, adds more value, builds more infrastructure, and he's the one that taught me the merit of free days, just taking time off, taking time away. So, yeah, that's financial independence. Is cash flow, and then financial freedom is a state of mind. It's when money is no longer the primary reason or excuse you would do or not do something. It's a consideration, but it's no longer the consideration means that you have a healthy relationship with money. Money is an asset and an ally, not an enemy. You don't come from a place of scarcity. You come from a place of abundance. You can be more present with your family and doing what you do without feeling distracted. I think wealth is our ability to be present, not necessarily how much money we have in a bank account. I think we have a good amount of money in a bank account, and we can be present. That is like true wealth.   Keith Weinhold  43:12   It harkens back to the John D Rockefeller, he who works all day has no time to make money. Rockefeller would have said, you can architect a wealth plan if your head is down on the assembly line, that means gradually move your offer. It's from trading your time for dollars over to owning assets that pay you to own them. Garrett's comedy special is called the American Ream. There's no D in that word, R, E, A, M. You can look that up, Garrett. It's been enlightening as always. Thanks so much for coming back onto the show.   Garrett Gunderson  43:43   Hey man, good to be back.   Keith Weinhold  43:51   Always. A lively conversation with Garrett, besides some great mindset perspective, he's really good at saving you tax and setting you up with asset protection. Though he's not as real estateish as me, he's pretty savvy. For example, He's aligned on the fact that, for example, say you have an 80k debt. Well, it doesn't necessarily mean that it makes sense for you to pay that off sometimes it does, but what happens to your net worth anytime you pay off an 80k debt, well, let's see. You've reduced your asset side by 80k and you've reduced your debt side by 80k so your net worth is the same, and retiring the debt means that you might have lost leverage, lost cash flow and lost tax advantages, all at the same time on Instagram, send a DM with the two words, Keith Cows to Garrett B Gunderson, and he'll hook you up with his book for free next week on the show, we go deep on does America really have a housing shortage with an expert analyst. Until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.    Speaker 4  45:01   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  45:29   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth. Building, get richeducation.com  

Are your prospects ghosting you after showing interest? If people say they're interested, ask for the video, and then disappear, the problem may not be your leads—it may be your posture. In this episode, Ray Higdon breaks down the real reason prospects stop responding and how subtle shifts in posture and positioning dramatically affect your close rate. Most salespeople assume ghosting is a prospect problem. But in reality, prospects respond to energy, positioning, and how conversations are led. Ray explains why chasing repels prospects, how speaking above a prospect's position creates resistance, and how to follow up without sounding needy or desperate. You will also learn a simple follow-up framework that creates urgency, filters serious prospects, and increases closing percentages. If you are in sales, network marketing, direct sales, or entrepreneurship, this episode will help you stop getting ghosted and start leading conversations with confidence and clarity. Keywords naturally included: why prospects stop responding, sales ghosting, handling unresponsive prospects, sales posture, follow-up strategies, closing more sales, network marketing training, sales positioning, improving response rates, prospecting mistakes —  

If you want to close more sales, you may be focusing on the wrong part of the process. In this episode, Ray Higdon reveals why closing actually starts much earlier than most salespeople think—and shares three practical action steps you can apply immediately to increase conversions. You will learn why talking to more people dramatically improves close rates, how closing begins the moment you start interacting with a prospect, and why expanding the problem (without manipulating it) naturally leads to stronger buying decisions. Ray also explains why waiting for marketing to work is one of the biggest income killers in modern sales. If you are in sales, network marketing, direct sales, coaching, or entrepreneurship, this episode will help you close more deals by improving activity, posture, and conversation strategy.   —  

How a CPA Built a 7-Figure Firm and Helped Clients Save $15M+ in Taxes | Michael Uadiale on Strategic Tax Planning Host Manny Torres interviews Michael Uadiale , a CPA and tax advisor with over 25 years of experience who founded a seven-figure firm and has helped clients collectively save over $15 million in taxes. Michael shares how moving to the U.S., earning a high-paying Silicon Valley job, and receiving a six-figure tax bill with no real planning from a hired CPA pushed him into tax advisory. He explains that tax outcomes can be shaped legally, ethically, and morally by using the tax code strategically, and describes challenges building his firm, including skeptical clients and CPAs resistant to planning. Michael emphasizes investing heavily in ongoing education due to constant law changes, hiring team members who value learning, and “changing your facts” through restructuring to fit the tax code. He cites mentor Tom Wheelwright, author of Tax-Free Wealth and Robert Kiyosaki's CPA, and urges advisors to act as client advocates by planning ahead rather than delivering surprise tax bills. Contact: taxes@smithcpa.com. 00:00 Welcome and Guest Intro 00:44 Name Pronunciation and Warmup 01:21 Origin Story Becoming a Tax Advisor 04:53 Early Client and Team Resistance 08:12 Investing in Mastery and Strategy 11:39 Mentors and Tax Free Wealth 13:02 Advisory Mindset Put Clients First 15:36 How to Connect and Final Takeaways

Keith digs into what's really going on with apartments now that values in many markets have dropped 20–40%. You'll hear why larger multifamily properties have been hit so much harder than one-to-four unit rentals, and what that means for both current owners and new buyers. "The Apartment King," Brad Sumrok, joins the conversation to share how recent economic shifts, financing structures, and market forces have reshaped the apartment landscape—and why he believes we may be near a key turning point in the cycle. You'll also learn how investors are approaching deals differently today, what makes certain markets and property types more attractive right now.  Resources: Learn more about Brad here. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/594 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold us. Apartment Building values have fallen 2030, even, 40% over the past few years. Investors lost millions. What are all the reasons that it happened? And when will apartments turn around? I'm joined by the apartment king today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:26   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold, writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:09   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com you   Corey Coates  1:40   you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:59   Welcome to GRE from Monterrey, California to Monterrey, Mexico and across 188 nations worldwide. America's favorite shaved mammal on a microphone has got his slack. John, act back on track for another wealth building week with you. I'm Keith Weinhold. This is get rich education, and I'm still not wearing a pair of Dockers. We all know that the one to four unit space single family homes, up to four plexes have held under their values despite soured affordability, but five plus unit apartment buildings are a drastically different story. We're going to talk about just how much value they've lost recently, and the reasons why it's about more than just the interest rates doubling and tripling that began in 2022 Today's guest is an apartment educator. His students have had both losses and wins over time. I'll ask about both, because adversity is where you get the lessons now today, you might buy an apartment building at a steep discount compared to what it sold for five years ago. And who might you buy an apartment from today, it might not be the type of seller that you're thinking about because of owners defaulting you might now be buying it from a bank that had to basically repossess it. Yeah, you might try to buy it from a lender at 60% of the loan amount. Well, a lender doesn't want to do a 40% write down, so they're going to try to get more and see. That's how this could practically look today for an apartment owner that survived the crisis and is still standing today. They're asking themselves, now, why would I sell at a discount if I don't have to? So they're probably going to try to hold on. And then, of course, the tenants in these apartments don't know that any of this is going on now. I own a lot of single family rental homes myself, also apartment buildings in the one to one and a half million dollar range is where I've played, and often that ends up being eight to 12 units, because in that space, I don't need partners to invest in assets of that size. One to $2 million is also small enough so that you're not competing with institutional money and other players. Today, I'll tell you what I did with some of those buildings myself when interest rates reset about four years ago, and before you and I wrap up the show today, I've got something to tell you about what's coming in future. GRE episodes here stuff that's really unexpected as the apartment King waits in the wings. One last thing to tell you about, like I mentioned to you recently, investors say that they want an opportunity, but what they really want is certainty. Once certainty arrives, the opportunity. Is gone.    Keith Weinhold  5:01   Our GRE live event last Thursday was a success. It is about how central Florida is the most compelling housing market right now, with the builder offering rate buy downs as low as 3.75% and, you know, I just ran the numbers on something, and I can hardly believe this. All right, right. Now owner occupied mortgage rates are near 6% this means investment property rates are almost 7% with the rate by down to 4% here's how your cash flow looks with a 30 year fixed rate mortgage on a 300k loan with a 7% rate, your p and i payment is 1996 at a 4% rate. It's just 1432, this is a reduction of $564 per month, a whopping payment difference. That's really the difference between treading water and stacking cash flow on these brand new build properties that we're talking about here in Central Florida. So talking about opportunity and certainty, that is a big measure of both. Yeah, before I ran the numbers, I didn't realize that the spread was this wide. With high demand for these properties, the builder does have some more available, a long term fixed rate of around 4% it should be up for you now you can see the limited time replay of GRE, freshest live event at grewebinars.com, in case you want to look into This again, grewebinars.com let's discuss the apartment market. Foreign apartment building values have fallen at 20% 30% even 40% over the past few years, depending on the market that they're in today, we're going to learn how bad it is, why it happened, and if that actually creates an opportunity here in the late 2020s, decade, our guest is known as the apartment king. He is the number one nationally known educator and mentor for apartment investing. He started with a bang in 2002 by making his first ever real estate investment, not a four Plex like I did, but a 32 unit apartment building, and he's now owned and invested in over 11,000 units and over 1 billion in assets under management. He's received awards like the naa independent owner of the year, and he's the star of the massively popular in person events that he puts on, which you'll learn about soon. Hey, it's been several years. Welcome back to the show. Brad sumrock,   Brad Sumrok  7:46   hey, Keith. It's really good to be on again. Nice to be here.   Keith Weinhold  7:50   Brad and I were together in person last month, and we also talked physical fitness. Then Brad is one of the fittest guys you'll ever meet in person. He just looks fantastic. We want to hear about your apartment forecast shortly. Brad, let's talk about the hard stuff. First, you've endured adversity since we last had you here several years ago. Tell us about that.   Brad Sumrok  8:14    Well, look, I mean, I think anyone that's been serious about investing in apartments over the last five years. And I'll also say it this way, anyone who did a deal and say 21 the middle of 21 till probably the end of 2022 it's very likely that that property is worth less today than than it was when we bought it. So that, in itself, has created, you know, adversity, because I got into the business in 2002 and the market went up until 2008 and we went through a downturn in 2008 nine and 10, as is, I'm sure you're aware. And then the market went up again until around 2021, mid year. And then, due to so many reasons, and I could go into those reasons, but let me just just cut to the chase. That you alluded to is we had another downturn, and so the downturn, you know, impacts property values, it impacts confidence, it impacts investor appetite to do deals. It impacts just about everything related to the business, on the investment side, and the other business that I'm in, which is the seminars, the events and the mentoring. So it's been a big downturn, and we could go into those, you know, into the reasons why, and I'm sure you'd like to know my take on that. But now is a great time, because things are recovering, and one of the things Tony Robbins teaches Keith is pattern recognition. It's like I've been through two downturns, and I could see the patterns, and it occurs to me that we're at or near the bottom of a cycle. So like it's also a good time to be gearing up.   Keith Weinhold  9:50   Now, many realize but for those uninitiated on this, the one to four unit space really didn't feel much pain starting in 2022 so much of that is time. Two people get long term fixed interest rate debt on the one to four unit property, but it's shorter term debt on five plus unit apartment buildings. So when interest rates went up, people soon had to pay those higher rates. They were underwater. That's really the genesis of so much of the apartment building pain.   Brad Sumrok  10:19   Well, and I would say, look, it was, I'm going to throw a bunch of things at you here. So we had the pandemic, right? And during the pandemic, people got paid to stay home from work, right? The government printed, what, $5 trillion worth of money, right? And so that kicked off what became a period of, like, very high inflation. And you know, the published number was 9% but I think a lot of people experience certain items that were a lot more than 9% like, for example, for sure, in 2022 when we bought a 286 unit property, you know, we were able to replace all the appliances inside of a unit in The kitchen, you know, for $1,800 and even today it's like $3,200 so that's a little bit more than 9% and so we had that. So we had the printing of money, we had inflation, we had variable rate debt. Why did people do variable rate debt? The first thing I'll say is there is a place for variable rate debt. But what happened in 2021 and 2022 is the fixed rate lenders, which are typically the government sponsored agencies Fannie and Freddie. They were still lending money, but because of their criteria for lending, if you would go with one of those loans, you would get like 50% leverage the shorter term lenders that would give you the three year loans, you can still get like 75 to 80% leverage. So the vast amount of people that were buying anything in 2021 and 2022 I mean, I'm not just talking about myself. I'm talking about people with 2030, 4050, 70,000 doors all over the country, they were buying with short term debt. And historically, short term debt performs at or better than long term debt. I mean, think about it, when you get a long term, 10 year fixed rate loan and multifamily you have prepayment penalties. You know, when the market's constantly going up like it did, from 2012 to 2022 you could get that fixed term loan. You could pay it off early, you could pay the seven figure prepayment penalty, and you could still make lots and lots of money, and that's what people were doing. So when you bake in the prepayment penalties on long term debt, you know short term debt is oftentimes the better option. Well, nobody saw the Fed raising rate 16 times in 12 months. And look, I don't care what anybody says, Nobody predicted it. If they had predicted it, they would be probably the richest person in the world right now, right nobody saw a comment like, there may have been some people that said, hey, yeah, this is going to happen, or this is going to happen. But what actually happened with the Fed rates over a very short period of time was unprecedented. Unprecedented means it never happened before. So it's not something you could anticipate or something anyone can model. Okay? And so what that did is most of us had what's called an interest rate cap, which is an insurance policy that if the rates go up too much, that yours is capped. But the problem with those rate caps is they're only good for like, two years, right? So we're buying these deals in 2021 and we're getting short term debt, which is a three year debt. And in two years, in 2023 the rate cap expires, and now the rates are 9% instead of 3% and when we bought the deal, the rate cap insurance was $40,000 and now it's a million dollars. And so you're in a very awkward, unfriendly financial situation. And it wasn't just that. So it wasn't just inflation, it wasn't just interest rates. And many of us sung belt markets, specifically Texas and Florida, which historically have been some of the best markets to invest in, because of migration and no taxes, and then landlord and business friendly environments. Well, these states also suffered a lot of named storms, with, you know, hurricanes and wind storms and hail storms and so in these markets, at the same time, we had rising rates. At the same time, we had massive inflation. Now we also have insurance rates doubling or even tripling in some occasions. And then the final thing was, during the pandemic, a lot of the multifamily projects that were in the middle of being built, these development projects, they all slowed down. People couldn't work. And so back in 2020, or after we're fully recovered from the pandemic, some of these markets, like Nashville and Austin and Dallas and Houston and Phoenix, they got deluged Keith with new supply coming on, like a disproportionate amount of new supply. So there's like five. Five things that contributed to multifamily being really tough in the last few years. And so it wasn't just people with short term debt that had challenges. It was probably just about anybody that bought a deal within an 18 month timeframe that I outlined before that just really experienced challenges, and some of those people are still in deals, right? And so let's just take a deal that's, you know, a $10 million deal with a $7 million loan. Well, that deal right now might be only worth 7 million, yeah, and that's the opportunity. So the owner that has that deal may get punched in the face, so to speak, you know, by the market, and they may lose their equity in that deal, but the borrower coming in, or the buyer coming in, like one of my mentees right now, had a deal that was listed at 11 million, and he's picking it up for seven, which is, like, at or below the current loan value. So one buyer group's loss is the new buyer group's opportunity, if that makes sense   Keith Weinhold  16:03    right? 100% there's nothing unusual at all about the mortgage rate levels that began to go higher about four years ago. The unusual part, and Brad has touched on it, is the rate of increase, with mortgage rates doubling or tripling in a short period of time, within about a year or so, but yeah, it's a great point. It's about more than the mortgage rates. It's about increasing insurance costs and increasing expenses of all types, like you talked about with the appliances there, and then, even if you were able to weather all that as an apartment building owner, with all of the supply coming on to the market, when supply exceeds demand, we know what happens to price, and we also know that you can't raise rents very much with all of this supply coming on the market, but the supply of new apartment buildings, that inflow, that wave, is beginning to die down, because builders got the memo quite a while ago that they need to stop building at such a fast pace in places like Florida and Texas and you know, Brad, there are a lot of asset classes that have been beaten up lately. We can always point to a few. You can look at Bitcoin or nfts or even commercial office space. Now those assets might bounce back, but they don't have to, because no human needs those things. But I expect apartments to bounce back because having a place to live is a primordial Maslow and human need. It's almost inevitable. In fact, shelter is at the base of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So a bounce back has almost got to happen. Yeah.   Brad Sumrok  17:46   Look, it's becoming the big word right now in politics. Right is affordability. And so when you look at affordability, if you take a median priced home in this country of say, $400,000 I don't know if that's the actual median, but maybe it's around 400 420,000 100, $420,000 yes, to buy that home. And who's going to buy a $420,000 home? It's going to be a working class family making 60 to 70,000 a year, right? They could rent a median priced apartment unit for $1,800 a month, or they could pay a 20% or a 10% down payment on a $400,000 homes, and they need 40 to 80,000 down right, or maybe less, but they still need a down payment and that p i, t i, the principal, interest, tax and insurance is going to be around $3,100 okay, so there's a $1,300 per month gap, and that's a big, big gap for that working class family. And so where are they going to live? Like we're becoming more and more of a renter nation? Keith, and the statistics that I read say that only 27% of American families can even qualify to get a mortgage, yeah, on a $400,000 home. So we're becoming more and more and more of a nation of renters by necessity. And so the demographics like look, all markets are not equal. You got to know what's going on in your market. But there are markets, ie locations, geographies that have even a higher affordability gap. You know, some markets have a 2000 a month or a $2,500 a month affordability gap. So you're going to find more and more people renting in these markets.   Keith Weinhold  19:37   Yes, there is a premium to ownership opening up that gap, and that's why we have this wave of renters that's really already begun. In about the last year, the American homeownership rate has fallen from 66% to 65% 1% doesn't sound like much, but that already means that we have 1.3 million new renters. We're going to talk to Brad some more, including about. His apartment market forecast you're listening to get rich education. Our guest is apartment King. Brad sumrock, more when we come back, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold,    Keith Weinhold  20:09   flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture. It's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE. That's f, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre,   Keith Weinhold  20:45   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products. They've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep. Text their freedom. Coach, directly. Again. 1-937-795-8989,   Hal Elrod  21:58   this is Hal Elrod, author of The Miracle Morning, and listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  22:13   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold. We're talking about a sector we have not talked about very much lately because it's been in rather moribund condition, but we are beginning to turn the corner where there are more opportunities in apartment building investing, because it's been beaten down an awful lot. And Brad, that plays right in to your apartment forecast. So tell us about some of the highlights of your apartment forecast.   Brad Sumrok  22:38   Yeah, sure. And one of the things that I want to share with you, Keith, is that, you know, back in the peak of the market, the market peaked, say, at the end of 21 early 22 there were so many investors that were in multifamily or that wanted to be in multifamily. And the other thing that caused this so called, you know, downturn that I didn't mention before is, let's take this $10 million deal. If a property was listed at $10 million you'd literally have 30 to 40 buyer groups pursuing that deal, bidding up the price. Yeah. And so a $10 million Listing would sell for 11 and a half million Okay, now what I'm seeing is that same $10 million deal might sell for a seven to 8 million and you might be the only buyer going after the deal. Wow. And how do I know? Because you said, like, I run a an investor community and and I have active multifamily buyers, and I coach them, and I look at their deals, and this is what's happening. And the other reason I know is I sold two of my deals personally in 2025 and both of the deals that I sold, I bought in 2015 where we had 10 year fixed rate debt. So we didn't sell because we had a three year loan. We needed to sell because we had a 10 year loan due. And look, first thing I'll say is I made money, because over that 10 year period, values did go up. They peaked in 2022 and they came back down that because I bought it so long ago. That's the one lesson that I think people also want to understand, is over the long term, the values always tend to go up, but there are short term ups and downs that one would need to be aware of. But when I sold these two deals like I didn't have many buyers one deal in particular. I mean, I had eight buyers going after the deal, but only one was anywhere close to what I wanted. So I was negotiating with myself, you know, telling the buyer and his broker, hey, you know the other guys are here, and you got to come up on price and you got to come up on terms. But truthfully, I was bluffing, because I didn't have anybody that was coming up on price or coming up on terms. And so part of why I'm answering this way is when you look at the forecast, one thing that that I want people to know is that those. Of us that are in the business now and that have our pencils up, and we're underwriting deals, and we're making offers, like I used to teach Keith, don't make lowball offers, because you'll develop a reputation of being that guy or that borrower or that buyer that submits lowball offers, right? And word will get around in that market? Well, right now, like low ball offers are expected, and I would encourage people, let's just say you make an offer that whatever the deal pencils out to. So if you know how to underwrite deals correctly, and they're offering 10 million as a listing price, and you're coming up at seven or 7.5 don't be bashful to make the offer, and you may be the only buyer in the game. So that's one thing is like the competition that I'm seeing right now on the buyer side is not a lot of competition, and that's definitely shifted to a buyer's market. So people need to know that. The other thing I would say, on the macro level, is there's still a lot of uncertainty out there, and the uncertainty is kind of becoming like what I would call a new normal. You know? I'll speak for myself. When Trump was elected and at the end of 2024 I thought it was going to be amazingly well for all of us real estate investors, right? And there are some things that have been like the big, beautiful bill that restores 100% bonus depreciation like this is a really good thing, but you know, the tariffs, the immigration policies, some of the things that he's doing, you know, they have mixed impact for us and our in the economy and in real estate and in multifamily. And the thing is, when he first started doing that again, like lenders, they didn't know how to price debt, like, what's going to happen with tariffs, what's going to happen with ice what's going to happen with immigration, you know? But now that we're a year in to his second term, I can tell you a couple things. Debt is back. Lenders are lending. They're confident. Lenders are issuing debt like you can get 70 to 75% of your acquisition funded by a commercial lender. The government agencies are lending. Freddie Mac is lending. Fannie Mae is lending, and they have a mandate to lend 20% more money in 2026 than they did in 2025 so that bodes well for people that want to get, you know, affordable workforce housing, which is my specialty, also known as Class B and Class C housing. So the lenders are lending like, there's a lot of debt out there. One of the challenges is the equity. There's a lot of institutional equity. But if you're going to the retail investor who got into the business three to five years ago. They don't want to hear about your next deal right now, they're wondering about, hey, what about the deals that I'm in? Right? So one of the things that I'm doing, Keith is, and I think, you know, this is like, you know, I build up a huge investor community from 2012 to 2022 and I did it by traveling the country, speaking at conferences, sponsoring trade shows, talking about the benefits of investing in apartment buildings, how it changed my life, how it enabled me to retire from a six figure income in just three years, and how I've helped many, many other people Do the same, and also just sharing experience today, every asset class, every 10 to 15 years is going to go through a correction. And so where we're at now. And I wasn't the only one on the forecast. I brought in John Chang who is the senior intelligence officer at Marcus and millichep, one of the biggest commercial real estate firms in the country, and he presented about 20 or 30 slides that by and large were very bullish on where we're at in the market cycle. Why now is a great time to be looking at apartment buildings, a lot of the same things that I've been talking about. Prices are down. It's a buyer's market. We have a huge affordability issue. More and more people are becoming renters, and so what I'm committed to do, Keith and I don't know if I shared with you my travel schedule, like when we met each other last month, but I'm on the road every single week going to another city, talking about where I see us right now in the market, and why people should be looking at deals and making offers right now. Because to me, you know, Warren Buffett said it best. He's like, you want to be fearful when everybody else is being greedy, and you want to be greedy when everybody's being fearful. And right now, people are on the sidelines. They're waiting for some green light, like for the Wall Street Journal to come out and say, Hey, now's a good time, you know? I mean, look, Trump, just the point of the new Fed chair, right? And so we know interest rates are going to go down like that's one of his goals, and the guy that he appointed is going to lower rates. So we're looking at a future, a very near future, where we have lower rates, and lower rates is going to create more demand, again, for people that want to buy. I invest in apartments now, look, if you wait another year, I still think it's going to be a good time, but I think we have a better time right now.   Keith Weinhold  30:10   I sold one apartment building in 2022 for about $1 million and I sold another one of my apartment buildings in 2023 for about $1 million I had bought those in 2013 with 10 year balloon loans, so I was enjoying that nice fixed rate as late and as long as I could, until 2022, nine years and 2023, 10 years before the rate went up on me. But of course, my new buyer had to pay that rate, so it limited the amount that they could offer for it. However, to your point about investing for a long time horizon, I still had profits on those nine and 10 year holds, but yeah, to your point, Brad about the looser lending, this is huge. I read a summary of the latest national Multifamily Housing Council meeting, and one of the biggest takeaways that came out of that meeting is that there is abundant debt available. It's in increasingly attractive terms. And a lot of people think about mortgages, and they just think about the rates, and you should that's certainly important, but they don't think as much about the propensity for others to lend. How loose, or how tight are those standards? They're loose, yeah.   Brad Sumrok  31:25   And, I mean, look, the first deal I did in 2002 the interest rate was 6.35% the rates right now are less than that, you know, as of the date of this recording. So, you know, I always talk about a base case of a $10 million deal. It may seem large to you or to people listening, but like in my world of syndication, where we're not just looking at the real estate piece, but learning how to raise money to buy real estate so we could have a bigger property that's professionally managed and become a true business owner like Robert Kiyosaki talks about, do you want to be self employed? I tell my students, buy a six Plex. Do you want to own an apartment business by 60 units and hire a management company? So when I'm talking about this $10 million deal, you know, you can get a $7 million loan right now for probably in the mid 5% and it would be non recourse, and you could probably get three years of interest only, meaning for the first three years, you're going to have a higher cash flow. So like, this is a really good loan compared to 2021 when we could get 3% debt. It's not but remember that 3% loan was a short term loan. You know, it wasn't a 10 year fixed rate loan, it was a short term loan, and we all saw what happened with that when they raised rates so many times in such a short period. So the fixed rate debt is very competitive based on, like, the long term, 20 year average, and it's lower than it was when I started.   Keith Weinhold  32:55   Well, we've been talking about elements of your apartment market forecast, and of course, that's going to inform your Buy Box. Brad, you mentor students constantly and oftentimes we think about a Buy Box. We think about then in terms of geographic market, but as we look for an opportunity, we also might think about some other things in your Buy Box, for example, new build versus vintage build. So with all of this traveling you do, and you're in the markets, and you're informing students, and you're looking at students prospective deals as well. But tell us more about what a good buy box is for the near term in apartment buildings.   Brad Sumrok  33:36   Yeah. So look like what is in the buy box, right? So one is going to be your location. And so, you know, how do I select a good location? Just some tips and strategies around that is, I look for landlord and business friendly environments. In other words, if the tenant doesn't pay, do they get to stay or not, you know, so I like to be in market so that they don't pay, that we could legally, you know, not have them consume our product for a long period of time. So I also look at things like job growth and population growth, affordability gap. New supply is a percentage of inventory, you know, the new supply coming online in a diversified economy. So, like, you want to get your geographies nailed down. Like, where you buy matters, like, there's no substitute to I would rather pay more for a property in a location that meets that criteria than less for a property that doesn't. Yeah. So geography is important. You want to pick your property size, like, how many units, or what's the price point. Okay? And this is huge, because if you're gonna buy your own deal with your own money, which is another reason I prefer syndication. Let's say you have pick a number, 100,000 to invest. Like you can only buy a $300,000 property, two units somewhere, three units somewhere, you know. Or zero units somewhere, right, right? So if you have expanded your you know, your mind and your skill set to do a syndication 100,000 doesn't limit you to your own money, you know. And then I would say, Well, what is a great size for a first time syndicator is I would target somewhere around 60 to 80 units, and at 100,000 a unit, which is a ballpark price for maybe a nice B class property or high C Class property, and a market that meets the criteria that I outlined earlier. You know, you're looking at, say, a six to $8 million property. And so what you could do from there, Keith is, you could say, Okay, well, you know, this is why, like in my educational course, I use a $10 million property, because the numbers are easy. But even just say, Well, I'm going to do an $8 million property, you'd say, Okay, I need two to 3 million down, depending on the debt, right? And then I'm going to get a the balance in a loan, you know, because you could get a 70 to 75% loan. So then you ask, Well, where am I going to get to 2 million, right? If I have 100 I need $1.9 million and so then you got to start thinking about like, do I have access to people or work or in the neighborhood or at the community or at the church, you know, or do I go to masterminds and conferences and meetup groups like, where I saw you Keith last month, like, there's a lot of investors there with a lot of money, right? And some of them are looking to be passive investors. And so, you know, there's a whole nother conversation around, you know, raising capital. And if you can't raise capital, then you may want to bring in some people on your GP team that could help you raise capital, as long as you're following, like the SEC compliance and again, that's another discussion. That's the importance of having the buy box so you have your geography, your property size, your property class. You know, again, if you just want the new construction stuff. There's some people out there, like big name, famous people, that are highlighting their 800 unit a class deals that they're buying. And of course, like you or I that are just getting started, can't go buy that deal. And so why? You know the institutions are going after the large A class properties in the best areas. And so where I've made my niche Keith, and what I would recommend most people start is start with the older vintage properties, start with the 1970s properties, and then maybe work your way up to the 1980s and 1990s properties. And why is this is because the institutions don't want those properties, and they're still able to be professionally managed. Like, if you go and buy 100 unit C Class property, as long as it's not in a bad neighborhood with, like, high crime or whatever like that. Like, these are very honest, hard working, working class people that need a clean, safe and functional place to live, and you'll be able to get better returns on a C or A B class, also known as like the cap rate. And again, that's another discussion, but you'll be able to get a better return on an older vintage property than you would on a vintage property. And you're not competing with the institutions, but you're also not competing with the mom and pops, because the mom and pops are going to take that 100,000 they have and go buy a duplex. You know, they're not going to want to syndicate a deal. They're not going to want to have partners. They're not going to want to deal with the so called complexities of buying a company. And that's what buying an apartment community is, Keith, it's buying a company. You're buying a business that has an income stream already being generated those customers, they're called residents. They're called tenants, you know, but if you just go upstream from buying real estate or buying an apartment building, we're buying a cash flow producing business that's existing, that's in place, and then our job is to figure out how to run it better and more efficiently. You the   Keith Weinhold  39:04   You the listener, you might have access to, say, 500k in equity that's sitting in your existing properties. And some of these numbers that Brad and I are throwing around are rather large, $10 billion but one of the biggest epiphanies that I think your students have is that doesn't need to be much of your own money. We're talking about what's called the capital stack to take down a $10 million apartment building. Maybe you borrow seven and a half million of that. Maybe you raise 2 million of that from your other investors in the syndication, and then you put your 500k into the deal, and there you have $10 million in order to make that purchase. But yes, that does involve a learning curve and the SEC rules and all that. But the big takeaway here is you don't need much of your own money. You can leverage other people's money, even for the down payment. And Brad, you're also an expert at showing people how to pay almost. Zero tax, which is another discussion unto itself, but some of your students start with zero experience, and within a few short years, I mean, you've had hundreds of people that have either retired early or increased their net worth by over a million dollars. A lot of success stories,   Brad Sumrok  40:17   yeah, look, I mean, I started with no previous real estate investing experience. My experience was going to college, studying hard, getting decent grades, becoming an engineer, you know, being fired once, being laid off once, and reading Robert Kiyosaki books that motivated me to to go out and seek specialized education. And I think it was Jim Rohn that said formal education, like degree could get you a job, and specialized education like you can get in a conference or a mastermind or a mentorship program. And that's also how I started. I went to a weekend workshop back in 2001 and I bought the mentorship program. And boy, I'm glad I did, because, you know, that's how I got into my first 62 units. So you don't need to have experience. What you need to have is a powerful reason, a powerful why? Why do I want to be financially free? Like apartments is just a vehicle. I didn't choose apartments because I love departments. I choose departments because they cash flow, they go up in value, and you have amazing depreciation benefits.   Keith Weinhold  41:23   Yeah, I'm the same. I don't love apartments in a way. I don't love real estate. I love what these things do for me    Brad Sumrok  41:30   exactly. Yeah? So, like, you don't have to have experience. In the other category, of people that have come into my community that don't have apartment experience, a lot of them have real estate experience, Keith, that are doing, like, single family homes, short term rentals, or maybe smaller, multi unit deals. And they listen to a show like this, and they're like, huh, I want to transition from doing these smaller types of assets with my own money and self managing to scaling into a syndication.   Keith Weinhold  42:03   Brad has taken countless people from get rich education to got rich education. His core values are faith, finance, fitness, family and fulfillment. He is committed to helping people experience not just financial success, but personal fulfillment, purpose, contribution, freedom and Brad and his investor community have contributed over $1 million to charity. Is really the person you want to learn from if you want to think about going bigger with multifamily apartment buildings. This has been great, Brad. Let our audience know how they can connect with you and learn more?   Brad Sumrok  42:42   Yeah, sure. So I would say this is where I should just be very clear here, okay, but I'm gonna give a couple options, because that's what I'm so of course, there's a website which is my first and last name.com, B, R, A, D, S, U, M, R, O, k, for those of you on social media, I respond to my own social so you'll find me again. B, R, A, D, S, U, M, R, O, K, on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.   Keith Weinhold  43:13   Brad, it's been so valuable. It seems like American apartment buildings are in for redemption story here. It's been great having you back on the show.   Keith Weinhold  43:29   Brad and I both emphasize physical fitness, and we chatted about that a good bit when we were together last month. I think he looks better than me. To summarize, the reasons for this historic collapse in apartment building values. It was the combination of soaring interest rates, massive inflation, spiking insurance costs, construction soared, and it created an oversupply, and that oversupply still is not absorbed. In fact, according to the outlet apartment list, the National multifamily vacancy rate recently hit 7.2% that's the highest in the history of the index, which dates back to 2017 and that's chiefly due to apartment oversupply. Have apartments really hit the bottom? Brad just said, we're at or near the bottom, and it's a good time to be gearing up as far as what's coming. To give you an idea of new apartment supply, what takes about two years from construction start to completion. And now you can't just have all US apartment construction come to a complete stop. You have to keep people working. And there are almost 400 MSAs in the United States, so you couldn't coordinate a complete ceasing of construction across every area. So how about the level of new construction starts in apartment units today, and the way that HUD counts it is the number of units started in buildings of five plus units the recent peak. Was about 600,000 annually in 2023 and today it's closer to 400,000 there it is that slowing pace of new apartment construction. If you jump into multifam, be careful of properties with deferred maintenance, because understand that you have a lot of underfunded owners Now Brad can tell you specifically what to look out for his rat race to retirement event is March 28 and 29th in Dallas. It's a two day hands on workshop. You'll learn how to find apartment deals, how to underwrite deals, how to raise capital management and your exit. Discover how you can retire in five years or less by owning apartments again. His website is Brad sumrock.com    Keith Weinhold  45:49   coming up on future episodes here on the get rich education podcast. We're about to go on a run. The next stretch of GRE is loaded. We've got fresh topics with some game changing monolog content that I'm going to share with you new guests, distinguished experts, we're going to break down an innovative way to sell properties that could completely change how you think about your exit strategy of the 50 US states. I'm going to discuss some awful states to invest in, including ones with population loss. On another episode, a distinguished subject matter expert and I are going to dive deep on does America really have a housing shortage, not in apartments which are oversupplied, but is there a shortage in the one to four unit space? That's our topic, because you probably heard contradictory information in the media about whether there's a shortage or not, and then some outlets say there's a housing shortage of 2 million units. Others, 10 million. They're all over the place. We're going to sort it out on an upcoming episode. Does America really have a housing shortage? Then the youngest guest to ever appear on the show will be with us. He's a 19 year old college student that has a real estate investing related major, and since last year, he and I have befriended each other. He was born in about 2006 so it'll be interesting to see how he views the investing world and what they teach him about real estate investing in college today, he is probably the most impressive teenager that I've ever met in my life. Then six weeks from now, we will have an epic get rich education podcast episode 600 on a subject as paradoxical and complete with a GRE contrarianism That builds real wealth, debt is the American dream will be episode 600 if you're serious about building wealth, be sure to follow or subscribe to the show. We are going on a run. If you know someone in your life who needs to think differently. If you know one investor who's still waiting for perfect conditions. This will help them tap the Share button and tell them about the show until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your daydream.   Unknown Speaker  48:14   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  48:42   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com  

Two-Time NY Times Bestselling AuthorFrom her own remarkable experiences, Janet created the profoundly impactful Passion Test process. This simple, yet effective process has transformed thousands of lives all over the world and is the basis of the NY Times bestseller she co-authored with Chris Attwood, The Passion Test: The Effortless Path to Discovering Your Life Purpose & Shine Your Light: Powerful Practices for an Extraordinary Life by Janet Bray Attwood and Marci Shimoff .Janet is a living example of what it means to live a passionate, fully engaged life. A celebrated transformational leader, Janet has shared the stage with people like His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Sir Richard Branson, Nobel Prize winner, F.W. deKlerk, Stephen Covey, Jack Canfield, and many others. She is also known as one of the top marketers in America. In 2000, Mark Victor Hansen and Robert G. Allen paid for 40 of the top marketing experts in the country to come to Newport Beach, CA to consult with them on marketing their book, The One Minute Millionaire. Janet was one of the very first they invited. As a result of that meeting, Robert G. Allen and Mark Victor Hansen asked Janet to partner with them in their Enlightened Millionaire Program. Her personal stories of following her passions, of the transformations which people like Chicken Soup for the Soul author Jack Canfield have experienced with The Passion Test, and the practical, simple exercises she takes people through to discover their own passions are a few of the reasons she gets standing ovations wherever she presents. Janet has given hundreds of presentations and taken thousands of people through The Passion Test process,in the U.S., Canada, India, Nepal, and Europe. Janet is also the founder of The Passion Test for Business, The Passion Test for Coaches, The Passion Test for Kids and Teens, The Passion Test for Kids in lockdown, and The Reclaim Your Power program for the homeless. Janet is a golden connector. She has always had the gift of connecting with people, no matter what their status or position. From the influential and powerful, to the rich and famous, to lepers and AIDS patients, to the Saints of India, Nepal, the Philippines and elsewhere—to anyone who is seeking to live their destiny, Janet bonds with every single person, and the stories she shares are inspiring, mind-boggling, uplifting and very real. A co-founder of top online transformational magazine, Healthy Wealthy nWise, Janet has interviewed some of the most successful people in the world about the role of passion in living a fulfilling life. Her guests have included Stephen Covey, Denis Waitley, Robert Kiyosaki, Neale Donald Walsch, Paula Abdul, Director David Lynch, Richard Paul Evans, Barbara DeAngelis, marketing guru Jay Abraham, singer Willie Nelson, Byron Katie, Wayne Dyer, Nobel Prize winner Muhammad Yunus, Tony Robbins, Rhonda Byrne and many others. These live teleconference interviews have attracted listeners from all parts of the globe Janet and Chris are both founding members of that organization whose 100+ members serve over 25 million people in the self-development world. Janet Attwood makes magic happen. Her presentations hold audiences spellbound. Her programs attract people from all over the globe. Through her magnetic charisma she is touching the lives of millions of people around the world. janetattwood.com'© 2026 All Rights Reserved© 2026 Building Abundant Success!!Join Me on ~ iHeart Media @ https://tinyurl.com/iHeartBASSpot Me on Spotify: https://tinyurl.com/yxuy23baAmazon Music ~ https://tinyurl.com/AmzBAS https://tinyurl.com/BASAud

If your prospects are controlling the conversation, you have already lost. In this episode, Ray Higdon breaks down why sales reps and leaders must stop letting prospects push them around—and how to reclaim authority without becoming defensive, arrogant, or aggressive. The foundation of confident selling is belief. If you do not fully believe in your product, service, or opportunity, prospects will feel it instantly. Ray explains why conviction is the first requirement of sales posture and how making the prospect "the prize" destroys your positioning. You will also learn powerful responses to common objections like "Is this a scam?" and "How much money are you making?"—including how to answer confidently even if you are brand new and have not made money yet. If you are in sales, network marketing, direct sales, coaching, or entrepreneurship, this episode will help you manage the frame of the conversation, increase authority, and close more sales without people-pleasing.   —  

Before Damian Maldonado was negotiating billion-dollar valuations or building businesses across Puerto Rico, he was a kid living in poverty and sharing bunk beds in a homeless shelter with his brothers. But those early years didn't break him. They led him to become the co-founder and CEO of American Financing, one of the largest privately held mortgage companies in the U.S. In this episode, Damian joins Ilana to share how growing up in poverty shaped his relationship with risk, money, and resilience, and what it really takes to bootstrap a company through market crashes, massive layoffs, and billion-dollar decisions. Damian Maldonado is a serial entrepreneur, investor, and co-founder and CEO of American Financing, one of the largest privately held mortgage companies in the U.S., which he helped grow from a small startup into a national brand. In this episode, Ilana and Damian will discuss: (00:00) Introduction  (02:57) Growing Up in Poverty and a Homeless Shelter (08:42) Key Lessons from Early Jobs (11:42) Pitching to a CEO at 21 Without Fear of Rejection (14:38) Damian's Journey into the Mortgage Industry (19:14) Starting America Financing With No Safety Net (22:30) Leading Through Layoffs and Downturns (27:07) Why He Turned Down a Billion-Dollar Offer (30:57) Leadership Lessons from Richard Branson (34:25) Building a Portfolio Career with Adventure (42:53) Q&A: Crafting a Response to ‘Tell Me About Yourself' Damian Maldonado is the co-founder and CEO of American Financing, one of the largest privately held mortgage companies in the U.S., which he helped grow from a small startup into a national brand. He also co-founded American Home Agents and has expanded his business interests into hospitality and lifestyle ventures in Puerto Rico, including a boutique beachfront hotel, restaurant, and kiteboarding school, creating jobs and adding value to the local community. Connect with Damian: Damian's Website: https://damianmaldonado.com  Damian's Instagram: instagram.com/damiankitepr  Resources Mentioned: Awaken the Giant Within by Tony Robbins: https://www.amazon.com/Awaken-Giant-Within-Immediate-Emotional/dp/0671791540 Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill: https://www.amazon.com/Think-Grow-Rich-Landmark-Bestseller/dp/1585424331  Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki: https://www.amazon.com/Rich-Dad-Poor-Teach-Middle/dp/1612681131/  The 4-Hour Workweek: Escape 9-5, Live Anywhere, and Join the New Rich by Tim Ferriss: https://www.amazon.com/4-Hour-Workweek-Escape-Live-Anywhere/dp/0307465357 Leap Academy: LeapCon is the #1 Conference for Reinvention, Leadership & Career — a powerful 3‑day experience designed to help you unlock what's next in your career and life.

Most sales reps believe that closing more sales requires being more aggressive, more persuasive, or more pushy. That belief is costing you deals. In this episode, Ray Higdon breaks down the fastest no-pressure way to increase your sales conversions—and it has nothing to do with pressure tactics. It has everything to do with posture. Ray explains how managing the energy of the conversation changes everything. When prospects pull away, most untrained reps lean in harder. But the opposite approach—maintaining strong posture and pulling back—actually increases authority, trust, and conversion rates. If you are in sales, network marketing, direct sales, affiliate marketing, or team leadership, this episode will show you how to close more deals without feeling pushy, desperate, or aggressive. —  

Register here to attend the live virtual event "Why Central Florida is the Year's Most Compelling Housing Market" on Thursday, February 19th at 8pm Eastern. Keith explores how a shift in mindset can change the way you build wealth, why so many new landlords are entering the market, and what recent economic trends could mean for future rents.  You'll also hear how one Florida investor is navigating a changing housing landscape, and learn about a timely opportunity in one of the country's fastest‑growing real estate markets—all without needing to be a hands-on landlord. Resources: Register for the event at GREwebinars.com Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/593 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the risk of delayed gratification is denied gratification. There's a new wave of landlords. Wages are rising faster than both inflation and home prices. Learn what that's going to mean for rents. Hear the voices of five different Federal Reserve chairs, then GRE announces our biggest event of the year, and you're invited today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:32   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:16   mid south home buyers, with over two decades is the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated, there is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com   Corey Coates  2:19   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:35   Welcome to GRE from the Adriatic Sea to the Atlantic Ocean and across 188 nations worldwide, I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. Sometimes we all need a mindset reset, and this can include me. Sometimes. James clear, the author of atomic habits, says there are four types of wealth, financial wealth, which is money, social wealth, which is status, time, wealth which is freedom, and physical wealth, which is health. Be wary of jobs that seduce you with one and two but rob you of three and four. That is to say, be careful with jobs that seduce you with financial and social wealth but rob you of time and physical wealth that is definitely going to happen to you during your life, especially early in your working career. But many people, even most people, they don't do much about this. They just go on and on, selling their soul to their employer for decades. Sometimes paychecks aren't compensation. They're a bribe from an employer to give up your dreams early in your career, delayed gratification actually makes some sense, because you need capital formation, you need down payments, you need dry powder. That is totally fair and the time in your life for delayed gratification. But there's a point that most people miss, the point where delayed gratification quietly mutates into denied gratification. This is huge. Most people miss this inflection point. When is this point in your life? That's when I'll do it later becomes, well, I guess I never did it at all. They look up at what they've got at age 65 and realize that they have a respectable title. They still wear Dockers pants. They have a 401, K that they must start paying tax on, and knees that creak louder than. The front door. Compound Interest hardly outpaces taxes and inflation. That's just going to keep you in one spot, you know, and you're never going to get that time back. There is no do over there. So you need to get to the point where you can be more frugal with your time than your money. Younger people have a harder time adopting this mindset, and that's a little natural, because they have more time and less money. Sooner than later, you must desperately get financially free so that you can simply be your self workaholics, optimize income instead of assets, and you can't let that happen, because labor does not compound and capital does compound, your quality of life will exceed your cost of living when your life is funded by what you own, not by what you do that takes a different mindset. You can either be a conformer or you can build wealth when you invest in real estate that pays five ways. It's like what you're doing is buying future Tuesdays, where you never have to work again and then later, add on future Wednesdays, where you never have to work again because you got the compound leverage instead of the impotent compound interest. I mean, just consider your two and a half million dollar portfolio that is passively doing the same work as someone who sells 40 to 50 hours a week of their life away for 100k in yearly salary. All right, maybe you're thinking, Oh, that all sounds thought provoking, but if you're not engaged on that, it can sound airy and philosophical and even risky. It's sort of like, yeah, you're cueing the acoustic guitar music and slow motion images of someone pensively gazing at a sunset.   Keith Weinhold  7:12   All right, what is the concrete plan? It's not all about mindset. It only starts with mindset. You got to make that actionable. Well, we constantly provide concrete plans for you here on this show, and I've got another concrete plan for you toward the end of the show today. This harkens back to what I discussed with you seven weeks ago, seven episodes ago on the show. That's when I discussed the world's first billionaire, John D Rockefeller and his enduring quote from about 100 years ago, he who works all day has no time to make money. Yeah, that's the quote a little review. What you learned seven episodes ago is that Rockefeller meant, if you spend your life doing tasks, you're never going to rise high enough to own things that pay you for life. The bottom line here is that earning a living is a distinctly different activity than building wealth. That's what we're talking about here.    Keith Weinhold  8:14   Well, there is a new wave of landlords entering the market, and they are reshaping what owning rentals looks like. One survey by rental platform avail of nearly 2000 users. It's really influential. It found that 53% of landlords became landlords in the last five years. So you have a lot of new landlords with the most 17% of landlords entering the market in just the last year, most purchased a property specifically to rent it out, and 1/3 sort of backed into this business by renting out their former residence. Of course, some people want to rent out their former residence today, if they got locked into that sexy owner occupied three and 4% financing from 2022 and earlier, the survey went on to tell us with some really good takeaways here, 72% of landlords manage between one and four units, and this avail survey. I mean, it's just another one that shows that the majority of landlords operate small portfolios, classic mom and pop investors. That one's not too surprising. The top three reasons that landlords gave for entering the rental market, they're pretty interesting. The number one reason for getting into this at 41% of respondents is building long term wealth. Next 33% for generating passive income, and the third most popular one, it's a distant third, it is preparing for retirement at 13% so building long term wealth is the number one reason for getting into this, and that is the right reason. Them when it comes to ownership structure, 64% said that they own the property individually, whether that's through a single member LLC or in their own name, doing it, yeah, individually, rather than with a family member or a business partner. So really, the summary of this terrific, recent avail landlord survey is that if you're just getting started, you're not alone. A lot of people are most own properties solely in their own name, and the number one reason for doing it is to build long term wealth. Now there's another pervasive set of economic trends out there in the broader economy, but it's really a benefit for real estate investors, and that is the fact that wage growth has now outpaced consumer price growth for three years. Yeah, another way to say that is that wage growth has outpaced inflation for fully three years. Yeah, most people just aren't feeling it yet. So you might be taken somewhat aback by that, and why aren't people feeling that wage growth is faster than inflation, the pandemic inflation spike that was so huge, it was like getting hit with a freight train, and then someone tells you, good news, the train has stopped. Yeah, that's nice. You are still lying on the tracks, rubbing your ribs. That's because we're all still absorbing spiked prices for everything from a lumber two by four to a York Peppermint Patty, year over year, wages are up 3.8% and consumer inflation is 3% All right, so wages above inflation, that means things are getting a little more affordable, but both wages and inflation have grown faster than home prices, which have only grown about one and a half percent, and this is all per the BLS in the FHFA, so wage growth Being more than double home price growth. Well, that trend really makes properties more affordable, but historically, they're still not that affordable. Everybody knows that home prices soared until about 2023 that was the turning point, and now wages are in their catch up phase. All right, but what really matters to real estate investors is, when will this wage growth translate to rent growth, historically, big rent growth that lags big home price growth by about two to four years. So you have the big home price growth, big rent growth hits two to four years later, historically. Now, if that holds true, we should finally see substantial rent growth this year or next year. Rent growth has still been pretty soft in the one to four unit space, and even there are rent decreases in the overbuilt apartment space. Future income growth promises to make homes more affordable. Affordability has already improved, with mortgage rates hovering near three year lows. There's one problem, though, that most people overlook, and that is this wage growth has been skewed toward the higher income deciles, renters, especially workforce renters, they don't feel it until later. So this 3.8% wage growth, it's heavier for higher income people, and it's lighter for lower income people. I swear, when there are enriching economic trends, it always hits the higher income people first, and it doesn't trickle down until later. So if you as an investor, are positioned before the rent wave hits, you are surfing, and if you wait to feel it, you're swimming behind the boat. Higher wages should translate to higher rents in the next one to two years. And as far as some other forces, as we all know, the man occupying the oval office in the White House, the President, he wants lower rates. The current Fed Chair isn't so willing to do that. The next one, the one he appointed, Kevin Warsh, who arrives in May. He seems more receptive to lower rates, but it's gonna take a while. It all moves so slow. We have had 16 fed chairs before worsh over 112 years. And look how much of an econ nerd Are you? Are you as bad as me? These voices are in chronological order, and I can name each speaker.   Corey Coates  14:47   You're going to have to live with the fact that forecasts have a range of uncertainty, irrational exuberance.   Corey Coates  14:54   In my opening remarks, I'd like to briefly first review today's policy decision, but   Corey Coates  14:58   first I'll review recent. Economic developments in the Outlook, and we are well positioned to wait to see how the economy evolves.   Keith Weinhold  15:06   If you can name each of those speakers, I would love to give you a free property from gremarketplace.com but I can't quite swing that in order. Those voices are Paul Volcker. He served from 1979 to 87 he was known for crushing double digit inflation by jacking rates to near 20% it was painful medicine, but it worked the next one. Alan Greenspan sir, from 1987 to 2006 that was a long reign, almost 20 years. He oversaw the 90s economic boom, the.com bubble and the early housing bubble. Years so far, Greenspan is the only Fed chair that I have met in person. Then Ben Bernanke, he was the Fed chair from 2006 to 2014 he took the helm right before the 2008 financial crisis. He rolled out QE and emergency lending on an historic scale. In fact, he was nicknamed helicopter Ben because it's like he would print so much money that he just dropped it out of huge sacks, dollar bills in huge sacks, dropping them from an airplane, metaphorically, not literally. Then Janet Yellen, 2014 to 2018 she kind of continued this post crisis normalization, and she was the first woman to chair the Fed and then, of course, Jerome Powell serving from 2018 to 2026 he navigated the covid stimulus, ultra low rates. And then after that, the fastest rate hiking cycle in decades to fight inflation back in 2022 being the Fed chair is the most important job in this economy, and over the decades, there's been more of a movement of the fed into the public eye. You just hear about them more in the media than you used to. But like I touched on last week, it just still doesn't mean as much to real estate investors as a lot of people think, people sometimes look for someone else to come save them, but it's more about you and the choices that you make that's what means more housing supply and demand means more real estate investors have profited during every one of those Fed Chair reigns, which go back almost 50 years from Volcker to today, I think everybody knows that fed chairs don't control property prices, and they don't even control long term interest rates. What's a little paradoxical is that Trump has been vocal about how he wants more affordable home prices, yet at the same time he wants existing homeowners to have their home prices go up, those two things seem to be in tension. They're in conflict with each other. The only way you can possibly get both are through lower mortgage rates. But is he going to see later today you as a GRE follower, you don't have to wait for lower rates income, property still feels less affordable than it did five years ago, because it is that's real but here's the key distinction in what makes real estate investors different from owner occupied homeowners. Affordability isn't about the price of the property, it's about whether the property pays for itself and grows your net worth while inflation does the heavy lifting. Higher prices don't kill investors. Inaction during inflation does you're not buying a say, $350,000 property. You're controlling it with $70,000 while your tenant and inflation do the rest. We do not rely on hope or appreciation. We start with income tax benefits and debt pay down and then leverage appreciation typically happens as well. GRE only succeeds when investors close on properties that perform long term. One bad referral costs us years of trust, so we don't do that. The best question for you really isn't whether property is affordable. The question is whether owning an investment property is better than inflation compounding against you. That's the investor lens today.    Keith Weinhold  19:24   coming up next week on the show here, we're going to discuss apartments. It's been a truly be leaguered sector, where their prices have fallen 2030, and 40% in many markets. We've discussed apartments here on the show a lot before, like with Grant Cardone on episode 264, with Ken McElroy, countless times with me monologuing about apartments. And next week, we're going to talk to a multifamily educator who is known as the apartment King. Later on, a future show, we've got the return of the financial. Firebrand, and lately, the financial comedian Garrett Gunderson, a powerful speaker. That's definitely going to be interesting. As for today, you'll hear a first person account from a Florida resident about why he's moved to Florida and why he invests there. You've heard of this guy before. That's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 593, of get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  20:26   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio, through a 721, exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE. That's f, l, O, C, K, homes.com/G. R, E,    Keith Weinhold  21:02   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products. They've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach directly again. 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  22:13   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Zack Lemaster  22:47   this is rental retirement Zach Lee Masters. Listen to get rich education with Keith bleinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  23:02   I'd like to welcome in our own in house. GRE investment coach, we haven't had you on the show since November. Welcome in Naresh.   Naresh Vissa  23:11   Kwith, It's a pleasure to be back on the show. Thanks for having me on.   Keith Weinhold  23:16   We're just playing it all casual and comfortable here in house. You were just finishing up, what ice cream or a container of something right before we got started   Naresh Vissa  23:25   here, all done with the ice cream and ready to record the podcast.   Keith Weinhold  23:29   Yeah, all right, keeping cool for our chat. Well, you know you do live in Florida, so you must have your own perspective on the Florida market. You live in the Tampa area, and the reason that that's a germane topic is that's something we've been talking about here lately as really an opportunity, and that is because most of Florida has seen some temporary property price attrition, but yet more population growth is projected. So that's why we feel like that's temporary. But why don't you tell us about what you see on the ground there?   Naresh Vissa  24:07   Keith, I've lived in Florida for 11 and a half years now. That's Tampa, Florida. I like Florida a lot. I moved here December 2014 for similar reasons that many people are moving here today. So I moved to Florida in December 2014 because of no state income tax, because of, at the time, lower cost of living. Florida was one of the states I got hit the hardest during the 2008 financial crisis, or nothing called in a real estate crisis, Florida, Arizona, those few others got hit really, really hard. So Florida at that time was still rebounding from 2008 so I moved for the affordability, the no income tax, of course, the weather better. Weather. And then most places in the Northeast I've lived so weather is a big deal when it comes to real estate and geography as well. These are all different reasons to move to Florida, and these are the reasons why I moved to Florida. I was also single in my 20s, so I was much younger at the time. I was single in my mid 20s, and Florida is very good for that too. For 20 something Gen Z folks today, Florida is definitely a place that they should consider. I moved down here and I fell in love with it. From day one. I got a place living right on the water, a beach. Got beaches everywhere. Florida's tour. And I say all this because these are all enticing features of Florida, for renters, for tenants, for snowbirds. I had never even heard of what a snowbird was until I moved down to Florida, where you have people who literally live here for seven months of the year, and then they live in their home state for five months of the year. So that's generally what it is, seven months in Florida, five months in their home state, which can be the people I know personally are from New York, Connecticut, Illinois, Ohio. The list goes on and on. Basically anywhere that's north of Florida could be considered a snowbird area. So that's another reason why Florida is a very hot market. Now, obviously, during the pandemic, in end of 2020, people started moving to Florida in droves. Part of it was politically, because you didn't have the restrictions that other states had during that crazy time that we lived through. And another part of it was work from home. So similar to me, in 2014 when I became full time work from home, I wanted to move somewhere for all those different reasons that I gave you the total package, and Florida fit that there was maybe one other state that fit the bill, based on everything that I told you, probably one other state. That's it. So Florida fit the bill, and that's why I think Florida is always going to be despite the hurricane prep, Florida is always going to be a destination that people will seriously look at whether you're older, retirement age or younger. Like I said in my mid 20s, single guy Florida is always going to be that destination for all the reasons that I laid out. So with that being said, what does that mean for real estate? What that means for real estate is that there's going to be a constant supply of people coming into Florida, and when there's a constant supply of people coming into Florida, then you can expect real estate prices to at least not decline. We passed, you know, all sorts of bills, including Dodd Frank post 2008 to prevent people from taking out mortgages that they couldn't afford. So now that that's out of the way, when you have a constant supply of people who are able to afford homes, who are able to afford rents, well, that's going to be a constant supply. So that's good for investors, that's good for appreciation. It's good for cash flow. And that's why I'm a huge fan, not just of the state of Florida, but also investing in Florida. And I own real estate in Florida, and you can say that I lucked out, but I bought a property in 2019 and it nearly doubled in value, yeah, when I say doubled in value in a matter of I want to say, like, two years, two and a half years, it nearly doubled in value. So with that being said, Florida, this was a rare cyclical trend when we just saw this huge upswing, rare cyclical trend. But I don't anticipate cycles like this, where you're going to have booms and busts. Moving forward, we haven't seen a bus since 2008 like I said, the the law has been taken care of in that sense, the regulation. I love the state. I've lived in six major cities, but maybe five different states, and Florida is hands down my favorite. That's why I've lived here for what did I say? 11 and a half or 12 and a half years? I don't even remember anymore. It's actually 11 and a half. My roots are here. I now consider myself a Florida person, even more so than the state of Texas, where, which is where I spent 18 years. I have no doubt that I'll surpass 18 or 19 years in Florida, and that this is it, right here. And a major reason is because this is just such a great state. It's free, it's real estate friendly. This is for people who are looking at buying primary residences, not for investment properties. But the governor has put on the ballot this coming election cycle to remove, to abolish the property tax in the state of Florida. So if you own, if you live full time, not a snowbird, not investors, but if you live in Florida permanently, then no more property tax if the vote passes. So that's another huge plus for owning property if you're a permanent resident in Florida,   Keith Weinhold  29:57   yeah, even if the property tax is abolished. Which seems unlikely, you could just tell what the tenor and the temperature of the tax climate and the investing climate is like in Florida, if they're even spearheading such a proposal, and they're a national leader in something like property tax abolition, like they are and Naresh about eight years after you moved there, which would be, what about 2020? 2022, somewhere in there, we had that strong pandemic migration push into Florida. What's happened is that that flow has slowed down. There's still positive net in migration in there in Florida. But the builders, they got ahead of this, and the pandemic migration wave waned, and they had a temporarily overbuilt condition, and they still do now, which is one reason why we've seen prices fall somewhat in most Florida zip codes, and this spells part of the opportunity. So you do have all these new build properties, some of which are vacant, but you have a good chance they're going to get absorbed pretty soon. And there are some obvious advantages to owning new build.   Naresh Vissa  31:11   Well, Keith, there is brand new construction in Florida, like you said. The work started in 2021 and there are homes that have not been sold. I don't want to say, since they were finished building in 2021 they recently finished building in 2025 and these homes could be a variety of reasons. It could be economic related. It could be hurricane related. In Tampa, the Central Florida, we had two horrible hurricanes back to back within a 15 day period, two really bad hurricanes towards the end of 2024 September and October 2024 and people lost their homes. Renters lost their homes. Other people just were freaked out and scared and said, You know what? I don't want to deal with. I've got PTSD from these hurricanes. I'm moving up to Alabama or Georgia or Orlando, you know, somewhere in Central Florida, that's a way. But even that area, you know, the hurricane still made it through to those areas too. People just picked up and said, You know what I'm done with Florida. It's a great state, but I don't want to deal with these hurricanes. And so regardless, whatever the reason, this is a pie, and these are all slices of the pie, I don't know what's been more of a contributing factor than which one has been more than the others. But with that being said, there are tons of properties in Florida, pretty much the entire state of Florida, where, especially new construction properties, are below at the time when they were being built, they're below what they anticipated being listed as. And So Keith, we're having a special webinar this Thursday, talking about these properties because they are discounted properties. They are properties that are selling at tremendous discounts, like I said to when Ground was broken years ago. So join that webinar. Gre, webinars.com gre webinars.com. Again, brand new construction. Many of these properties already have tenants in place. Not all of them, but many of them do already have tenants in place. There are all sorts of incentives that the builder is offering. And there are many builders in that, not just this one that's going to be on the webinar, but in Florida, there are many builders who are offering discounts, rate, buy downs, other incentives, because the home values have fallen somewhat a bit. Why have the home values falling? Because the demand has fallen as well. So again, the next question people might have is, well, if the demand is falling, if home home values are falling, why would I buy the trend is downward. And the answer is, whether it's a stock or any other security, you don't necessarily want to have the FOMO to buy at an all time high, just because everyone else is buying it. And I actually have family members who bought real estate at the peak of 2022 there was FOMO and there was, hey, you know, I need to get a flip, and they're down. They bought peak 2022, and they're down today. Because, look, you can pick any housing market in the country, especially a prime state like Florida. Look at any 30 year period, and you will see that home values are up double digits, even if you look at 2009 when the housing market crashed and we reached something like 10 year bottom in housing, if you look at the 30 year period, well, if someone who bought a house in Florida in, say, 1979 was still way up on their property in 2009 30 years later, we're not buying Bitcoin here where it can go up 30% in one day or go down 30% in one day. We're talking real estate, and real estate has been proven. It's been tested. It's been proven throughout time, not even a 30 year period. I think if you take any 20 year period, you're going to see the same trend of double digit gains, double digit growth. On real estate appreciation. So I'd say, if you're skeptical about Florida, you see these home values, all these discounts, that's the first thing I hear from followers. They say, why are they offering so many discounts? I'm a little concerned about all these discounts and incentives, and I don't know if that's a good thing. Well, I say, Well, I mean, you can buy full price in another state, if you'd like, you know, in California or so you could, you're more than free to buy full price. But we're talking Florida here. We're not talking about West Virginia or Rhode Island, or, you know, Nebraska. We're talking Florida. This is still the land of Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse, this is the land of the best beaches in the country. I mean, they there's just no arguing or debating these facts. Florida all the reasons that I stated earlier, is going to continue to be a hot, hot market. So I highly recommend people, if you want to get in on these discounted deals, G R E, webinars.com G R E, webinars.com register for our upcoming online and live special event this Thursday evening at 8pm Eastern Time, 8pm Eastern Time, gre webinars.com you won't want to miss this free, online and live special event.   Keith Weinhold  36:25   When a pound of oranges is on sale or a pound of zucchini is on sale, consumers are often attracted to that sale. Should probably be the same way with you considering adding to your real estate portfolio, and it's funny, when oranges of zucchinis are on sale, no one tries to find fault with it and think that they're rotten inside or something like that. But somehow with real estate or an investment that tends to get scrutiny from people, but these are real discounts that you're getting over buying, say, two years ago, and we're talking about a motivated seller here. And as you know, Naresh, we had the builder on the show last week, the one that's going to be co hosting the webinar with you on Thursday, and he talked to us about buying down mortgage rates to between 3.75% and 4.25% and we're here at a time where the owner occupied rate is six to six and a quarter the investor rate is seven, so you're getting about a three percentage point buy down. That's really the attraction. And Naresh, before I ask you, if you have any last thoughts, yes, again, it is our live event that you can attend from the comfort of your own home, Thursday the 19th, at 8pm eastern in just a few days, here with Naresh and the builder who you heard on last week's show, co hosting a live webinar for Central Florida so inland new build income property. It's free. You're invited, and the benefit of you attending live is that you can have any of your questions answered in real time. You're going to learn more about the Central Florida market and more about the home building process, and you are going to be able to see available new bill property, real addresses, with some of these pretty grand incentives that we've talked about again. GRE webinars.com, any last thoughts? Naresh   Naresh Vissa  38:17   I get a lot of questions about is right now the time to buy? Should I buy later? What's going to happen with real estate? And I know the number one question, or the number one caution our followers are going to have, is, is right now the time is March or April, the time. And I say, look, with real estate, I already gave you the figure that you take any 20 year time period, any 30 year time period, and that's our time horizon here at GRE again, we're not trying to buy bitcoin here and flip it, you know, two days later, we're looking to buy and hold for, I don't want to say forever, but I know my time horizon in general is the full 30 year term, at least for my properties, and some people you know, want 10 or 15 years. That's fine too, but that's the time horizon. It is not one year, two years. We're not flipping new construction properties here in Central Florida. We are looking to buy and hold over the long haul, get some very good, high quality tenants in there, in these new construction properties, so that you, the GRE follower and the investor, can collect your monthly cash flow as well as over that 20 year period, or that 30 year period take part in appreciation as well. We've also talked extensively, Keith in previous episodes about interest rate cuts that the Federal Reserve is going to be doing, and just know this, there's a reason why the builder is offering these incentives where you can get the rates so low, your mortgage rate can be so low, and it's going to take at least a year, even if the Fed goes to zero. I mean, it's going to take mortgage rates a very long time. And to reach that point of getting such low interest rates that you just laid out, so that even makes it more enticing, like, Hey, I basically have a head start on the Federal Reserve because I follow the Fed pretty closely. We don't need to get into those details, but it's looking heavily like they are going to be start cutting again later this year, this summer. So it's looking like they're going to do that, but again, now you can have a head start, because when the Fed starts doing that, and when the mortgage rates fall, then everybody's going to jump in. And what's going to happen to the home values once everybody jumps in, well, they're going to go up. You want to jump in when everybody is not jumping in, and when you can get an amazing deal on these interest rates thanks to the builder buying down your interest rate. So this is a GRE special you can't get these deals. I challenge our followers to go on the internet and try to find better incentives or deals. And what you're going to see on this webinar, on this online, live special event. So gre webinars.com you can join me as well as our special guest. He heads up the builder. His name is Jim. He's going to be on with me. And please join us at grewebinars.com sign up for this free and live online special event.   Keith Weinhold  41:20   These are some great points. There's a lot of anticipation for Thursday, Naresh. We'll see you then.   Naresh Vissa  41:25   Thanks, Keith.   Keith Weinhold  41:32   Oh yeah, a first person account on Florida life and opportunity from our own Naresh nationally, the build to rent model that has been a real success, building single family rentals with the intent that they are rentals. From day one, over 321,000 homes have been built specifically as rentals this way since 2012, and more than three quarters of those in just the last five years. So the build to rent trend is picking up steam. About 1/3 of Americans rent their home, and although the word rental for some people that still conjures up visions of high rises packed with apartments, but a growing number of today's rentals are these freestanding, single family homes and duplexes like we're talking about today, nestled in suburban communities with top notch schools, and that's why a growing number of mom and pop investors have hopped on the build to rent bandwagon. They take less maintenance. It attracts quality tenants who stay longer, and the rentals have changed, but so had the renters. 20 years ago, it felt like tenants had to rent, like they had no choice. Today, you've got more and more tenants that choose to rent. Many of them make 100k to 125k or more. Today, rentals are cheaper than owning for those people, and they're less of a headache. A lot of them don't want to fix things, and you as the owner, don't want to either. That's why new build is attractive. Then, you know, I just sent that great map to our newsletter subscribers about which states saw the most population gain from 2020 to today, the South had more population growth than every other US region combined, which is jaw dropping and within the South, the state with the most population growth since 2020 is Florida, with An 8.9% population gain in that span, narrowly beating out Texas and South Carolina. By the way, even if it weren't for the attractive builder interest rate near 4% these Sunshine State deals could still make sense. New build single family rentals from the 270s new build duplexes, 395 to 420k low insurance rates, positive cash flow, a builder warranty. And it's really even better than that. These properties are centered on Ocala, Florida, which received national recognition as the fastest growing city for this second year in a row. That's according to a U haul report, and Florida is the epitome of investor friendly. Florida is the first state to enact a law allowing law enforcement to immediately remove squatters. It distinguishes them from legal tenants. You might come to the webinar event, perhaps thinking about 80k or 500k that you want to allocate toward property or maybe nothing and you just want to learn at the event you will evaluate realistic opportunities learn how property management is handled, and understand how today's inventory fits into your disciplined, long term strategy that all takes place on. On Thursday the 19th at 8pm Eastern. It's our biggest event of the year, and it is called Why Central Florida is the year's most compelling housing market. One last time for Thursday, it is gre webinars.com, until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Unknown Speaker  45:20   You nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  45:52   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building get richeducation.com  

If your sales team is underperforming, there's a strong chance you're missing one critical metric—and it's quietly costing you revenue every single month. In this episode, Ray Higdon reveals the leadership blind spot most sales leaders never track: activity. While many leaders obsess over sales numbers, rank advancements, and new customers, they often ignore the one thing that actually drives those results. Ray explains why tracking activity—not just outcomes—is essential for improving sales performance, increasing production, and preventing leadership burnout. He also breaks down how recognizing effort (not just results), running activity-based contests, and setting weekly activity goals can dramatically improve team morale and consistency. If you're a sales leader, network marketing leader, entrepreneur, or manager, this episode will help you eliminate sabotage, focus your time on the right people, and increase revenue without working longer hours. —  

Everyone's got an opinion about money (especially the people with a book deal or a TV show). Some of that advice is useful. Some of it sounds better on a stage than it works in real life. Let's break it down.   Important Links: Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381   ----more---- Transcript:  Marc: Everyone has got an opinion about money, especially people pushing a book deal or a TV show. And sometimes maybe that advice is useful and sometimes it's not, it works better on a sound stage than in real life. Let's break it down and have Tony react to some controversial financial takes here on Plan With The Tax Man.   Hey, everybody. Welcome into the podcast. This is Plan With The Tax Man with Tony Mauro, here in Des Moines professional alternative at Tax Doctor, Inc. Hanging out with me to do a little reaction type podcast this week, Tony, we'll get your take on some interesting hot takes from some financial talking heads out there and see what you think about it and practice in the real world. Because you see clients and help people every day and of course are governed and have rules that you have to follow where a lot of these talking heads don't, they can say whatever they want. We'll talk about that a little bit this week.   How are you doing, buddy?   Tony Mauro: I've been doing good. As were taping this, we're getting into our tax season so getting busy with a lot of new tax changes and whatnot that's hitting everybody.   Marc: Yeah, a lot of changes with the OBBBA. You got to be on your toes, right?   Tony Mauro: Mm-hmm.   Marc: And we talked a lot about that on some of the prior podcasts.   Tony Mauro: We did, yeah.   Marc: Yeah. If you guys aren't a little sure about some of those things, make sure you go check those out and you can find us at whatever podcasting app you like, Plan With The Tax Man. Just type that in the search box or just go to yourplanningpros.com. But if you need some help, of course, reach out to Tony as tax season is upon us again at yourplanningpros.com.   All right. My friend, let's dive in and have some fun with these.   Tony Mauro: Sure.   Marc: All right. You're probably familiar, maybe a lot of our listening audience is with Robert Kiyosaki. A number of years back, he wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Really good book, actually. Quite helpful.   Tony Mauro: [inaudible 00:01:51] yes.   Marc: Yeah, quite helpful for a lot of people. But he's since gotten a lot more aggressive and interesting in some of his stances and takes. And again, a lot of that is the demographic I think he's marketing himself to and pushing and things of that nature. But let's talk about this take here more recently. He said people shouldn't work for a company and save in that retirement plan, instead should launch their own startups or maybe buy gold, silver, and Bitcoin, or all of the above. At the time we're talking, Tony, it's early February and gold and silver and Bitcoin, we're doing pretty good last year and earlier into the year this year, but not so great right this minute. At the time we're talking, there was a recent 30% downturn in gold and silver so that didn't age so well.   Tony Mauro: No. And I think it's interesting you pick this one because I have read his books and I think by and large the Rich Dad, Poor Dad, especially the Rich Dad, Poor Dad Cashflow Quadrant are great books for people. And this strikes me because... Don't get me wrong, I like people being in business for themselves. We serve a lot of those businesses.   Marc: Absolutely.   Tony Mauro: And the tax planning and accounting capacity and the financial end as well.   Marc: But I bet they got their own SEPs and things, they've got their own retirement accounts they're doing.   Tony Mauro: We've got them in almost anybody that will listen and take us up on it, whether it's through us or somebody else. Yes, they have their own retirement plan of some kind.   Marc: Yeah. Not saving in a retirement plan just seems crazy, especially if you are working for somebody else, Tony. Because if nothing else, take the free money.   Tony Mauro: It's free money. And that's exactly it, it's free money if you're working for somebody else. I think depending on who he's trying to market this measures to, not everybody is cut out for having a business for themselves. They may be good at it but they don't... A lot of them tend to get themselves into trouble, whether it's tax-wise or lack of planning, lack of cash flow, that kind of thing, let alone the headaches. Again, I love small business. It's my favorite thing so it's somewhere deep in me. I say, I get it. I get what you're saying. Yeah, I think everybody should work for themselves but not...   Marc: Everybody doesn't have the right temperament though.   Tony Mauro: They don't. They don't. They don't have the right temperament. And I definitely think if they're working for themselves or if they're working for a company, they should be in a retirement plan of some kind.   Marc: Yeah. And to just invest in gold, silver, and Bitcoin, come on, that's crazy. Have some if you want but...   Tony Mauro: I agree. That goes against every financial prudent planning aspect that I know of, that's some diversification...   Marc: 150 years?   Tony Mauro: Yeah.   Marc: Right.   Tony Mauro: Like you say, you can have some but I think you've got to have some diversification, you got to have a plan. I'd love to hear what his rationale for that.   Marc: Well, I've watched some shorts and some reels he's had out there recently. And I do think he's targeting the younger generation right now, this kind of mindset of we're not going to work 50 years for somebody and then retire, we want to make all our money in our 20s by being aggressive in technology and this, that, and the other. I think he's pandering a little bit to that crowd. Maybe not. Maybe he's totally on board with it. But it just seems like a big departure from some of his previous stuff.   Tony Mauro: It does. Yeah, it's a real departure from his books.   Marc: Yeah. Anyway, interesting hot take there. Look, if you want some gold and some silver and some Bitcoin, hey, cool. Talk with your advisor about that, make sure being prudent though to Tony's point. Don't get crazy.   We were joking the other day. I was talking with an advisor, Tony. The Dow just hit 50,000 at the end of last week at the time we're taping this for the first time ever, right? And the comment was, "Hey, the Dow hit 50,000." And somebody goes, "Yeah, so did Bitcoin." Of course, it started at 100,000.   Tony Mauro: Right. Right.   Marc: Because it's not had a very good couple of weeks.   Tony Mauro: No. And that just goes to show you the volatility there.   Marc: Massive, yeah.   Tony Mauro: Yeah. Having all your eggs in those three baskets, definitely very aggressive.   Marc: It could be, for sure. Yeah. All right. Let's go to a different take here from Suze Orman, host of Women and Money, recently suggested and this is... If Robert was getting a little crazy and aggressive, Suze is maybe getting a little too conservative. Tell me what you think about this, Tony. She suggests retirees set aside three to five years worth of living expenses. Not six months, right? Not three to five months. Just in case bank accounts crash or stock market crashes, things of that nature. Three to five years, a little too conservative? What do you think?   Tony Mauro: In my opinion, yes. I think that's far, far too conservative because assuming, again, if you're a retiree and you have a diversified portfolio, hopefully if you are in stocks that are high yielding, good quality individual companies. But most people don't have that, they have mutual funds and a variety of things. And even in a market downturn, if you look at 3, 5, 10-year periods, there's not very many that last very long. And if you take it in 10-year periods, there never is over the entire period so that seems very, very conservative.   And who in their right mind is going to take a large chunk of their portfolio and stick it in a 2%, 3% yielding vehicle when they're trying to live off of the income? I don't know where she's coming from with that at all. And again, these people sell a lot of books and whatnot. But keep in mind, I always like to point out that... And they have a lot of followers, they've made a lot of money. But sometimes if you're listening to some of this stuff, you might want to bounce it off your financial advisor as well, just see what they think because I don't agree with that one at all.   Marc: Yeah, it's a little too... And again, if you got... I don't know. I guess if you're worth $100 million, putting aside three years worth of money is a little easier than most folks, right?   Tony Mauro: Right. Right.   Marc: It's three years. I can hardly put side six or eight months, let alone three years worth. And again, interesting takes. And of course, these folks are talking heads out there in the landscape and pushing their books or their programs or things. And while technically, Tony, doing a podcast makes us a talking head, we're a smaller talking head.   Tony Mauro: True.   Marc: But again, you're in the trenches. You're a CPA, a CFP, an EA, you work with clients day in and day out. These folks don't do that so that's a little different there.   Tony Mauro: No. Yeah.   Marc: Kevin O'Leary and his amazing suits, his very colorful, interesting suits he wears. This one might be the most realistic, Tony, of everything on my list today. And this one is still a little bit too much, I think. But what do you think? He insists that if you don't know your net worth at all times, you're being irresponsible with money. He promotes constant tracking, optimization, and performance measurement.   Tony Mauro: Somewhat I agree with him because I do think you need to know your net worth.   Marc: Indeed.   Tony Mauro: Now, at all times and if you don't know it, you're irresponsible.   Marc: Constant?   Tony Mauro: I think that's a little extreme.   Marc: A little much. Yeah.   Tony Mauro: Yeah. But I think the point he's trying to make, if I'm reading it right, is you need to track your spending and what you own and what you owe so you do know your net worth because it is an important number. I wouldn't get so hung up on it day to day because you're just not going to be able to make significant changes to it. I think it's worth looking at with your financial advisor to see where it's headed on a yearly basis for sure. We do it with our clients. Every one of our clients, we go over that net worth. Did we grow it? Did it go backwards and why? And it's good to have that because at the end of the day, a large portion of that net worth is going to be your retirement portfolio, your investments. And so that's going to be what we're focusing on mostly.   But also in that net worth, we see a lot of times where we start to become almost a financial personal coach in that, "Hey, your net worth is not growing because you're spending more than you're making." That kind of thing. I think he has some good points there but I wouldn't focus on it. I would focus more with your advisor on the month to month, the bigger plan, and I think you'd be fine.   Marc: Yeah. And I think a lot of times people do hire a professional, Tony, because they don't want to track it every day and keep an eye on it and it stresses them out. But I think most people, we should know our baseline numbers, we should have a good idea of what's going on, our total net worth, what's coming in, what's going out. You want a good understanding. Even if you do have a financial professional in your pocket helping you out, you still want to have a good... What is it? A 10,000-foot view kind of thing. But I think micromanaging it down to that small of a level, maybe at some point in life. But I think as we get a little older, we're like, "Okay, I need to turn this over to somebody else to handle this because it's too stressful."   Tony Mauro: Right. Agreed.   Marc: All right. I got two more I'm going to do and it would not be complete doing this list without old Dave Ramsey. Dave is not shy and no stranger to controversial takes like cutting up credit cards or paying exclusively in cash. And obviously, Dave has got a huge empire, helps a lot of people, and actually has a lot of good things that do seem to work on the debt side. However, on this side, Tony, this might be a little crazy. He's challenging the rule of thumb, the 4% rule. He's advocating for 8% annual withdrawal for retirees who invest 100% in the market. If over time the S&P 500 yields a 10% rate of return, he says the money should then last you throughout retirement. And while on the surface, that makes sense, 100% in stocks for retirees alone just seems like way more nausea and sleepless nights than most people probably want.   Tony Mauro: I would agree with you. I've read Dave Ramsey's books, I think one of his best is the Total Money Makeover. As far as getting yourself started with planning, I think that's a great book for everybody.   Marc: And the snowball thing works great.   Tony Mauro: It works great. This, I would agree with you too. I don't agree with him at all there. I do like a little bit more aggressive withdrawal percentage than 4%, I like to use 5% with most of my clients unless they're very conservative. But 8% and all in stocks, that would be... I think as a fiduciary, that would just be wrong of us to even assume that unless the client comes and says, "This is what I want. I want nothing else." And it's up to us to say, "Wait a minute, that's too much." Because what he doesn't say here is, yes, over time it yields 10%. I would agree with that but that time period is a long time period. What happens if you've got all of your retirement portfolio, S&P 500 index, let's say, and we have an eight-year prolonged downturn? Will you run out of money? Probably not, but you will have significantly less. And if you're living off the income, well, then you either have to take less or get into the principal.   Marc: And he doesn't really talk about, "Hey, are you willing to cut that back on the down years and things of that nature?" Because adding a little context to that, Tony, to your point, somebody could be listening and go, "Hey, man, the market last year finished at 18%. The year before that, 20 something. The year before that, 20 something. The year before that, 20 something. Making 10 back and only pulling out 8 totally seems doable the last four or five years. Why not?" Sure, you're right. But what about the 10 years where we made nothing? What about a few decades back when there was what? 15 or 18 years where it made nothing, right?   Tony Mauro: Made nothing, right. I remember through 2000 to 2000 almost 10.   Marc: Oh, the lost decade. Yeah.   Tony Mauro: Oh, just a whole decade was gone. Let's say you were following this strategy then and that wouldn't have been too good for you.   Marc: You're pulling 8% out of a million dollars, you're pulling 80 grand out year over year, and it's not making anything back. Again, it's a little too much, I think.   Tony Mauro: I think so too. I think he might be just trying to generate a conversation there but I think he definitely got to put some context to that.   Marc: Yeah, for sure. And again, while technically the numbers technically do make sense, can you sleep at night with that much risk? And it flies in the face of everything for people... And again, the fact that he even mentioned it for retirees is what kind of... If he would have said people in their 30s or 40s, I could have maybe rolled with that. But people in their 60s up, that's a little too crazy.   Tony Mauro: I agree.   Marc: All right. Final one. You might have thought that might have been the wildest take but I'll save this one for last. The world's richest man, Mr. Musk, predicts that advances in AI, energy, and robotics will generate such an abundance of resources, Tony, that all individual retirement savings will become irrelevant in the future. On a recent podcast, he said, "Don't worry about squirreling away money for retirement. In another 10 or 20 years, it won't matter anyway." There's going to be this boom that is going to just bring riches to everyone and the thing is I actually think he believes it. I will give him the credit and the benefit of the doubt saying I think that he thinks these things are true, that he can make these things happen or they're going to happen or whatever. And kudos for feeling about that. But man, there is so many holes I can punch into this. First of all, Tony, what is your thought on will it even generate that sort of money? And then who allocates it? Who doles it out?   Tony Mauro: Well, that's what I was just thinking [inaudible 00:15:10]   Marc: And who do you trust to make sure they don't take it and give it to you?   Tony Mauro: Yeah, this is nirvana. I'm thinking, "Well, boy, if that's the case, sign me up."   Marc: Heck, yeah, sign us all up.   Tony Mauro: [inaudible 00:15:21]   Marc: But the history of human beings have... Is there any company, person, government, anything that you would trust to say, "Oh, send me my universal check every month so I don't have to do anything." I know that's the world keeps thinking we're moving towards that but we have to be on it. Who is going to really trust someone to do that first and foremost, right?   Tony Mauro: I agree. I just think that's... I didn't even know where he's coming from with that. I do think he believes it because I heard...   Marc: I do. I really do. Yeah.   Tony Mauro: But I just don't see how that's possible. Everybody that either... Let's say AI and energy and robotics have taken over everything, those are the people that are going to have... Who create that I would think are going to have the money and I don't know how that's going to be doled out to the rest of the people and why.   Marc: Well, you're talking about what? They've been kicking around that universal income for everyone kind of thing, right?   Tony Mauro: Yeah.   Marc: And if you're having a computer, if you're having AI dole out the money where so therefore humans aren't touching it, therefore it's deemed fair. I guess you could make those arguments. But at some point, it just seems... All right, 20 years from now he's talking. If you're 60 years old right now listening to this and you stop, right? You stop, saying, "You know what? Elon is totally right. He's going to pull this off. This is going to happen. I'm 60. I'm not going to save another dime for retirement for the next 20 years." And 20 years comes by and you're 80 and none of this came to fruition. Well, you're screwed.   Tony Mauro: You're screwed. Yeah, you're in real trouble.   Marc: And he's not on the hook for it.   Tony Mauro: No. I would say to everybody, you keep doing what you're doing, you plan like we're in this world right now.   Marc: Exactly.   Tony Mauro: And if something like this in your lifetime ever comes to happen, well then all the better. But I wouldn't bank anything on something like this.   Marc: And that's where I think the questions and the interesting thing comes into the speculation of investing, right Tony? That's where it comes back to, "Hey, look, if you want to get in crypto, if you want to have some AI properties, if you want to do some of these different things because you believe in this interesting future possibility. Cool, do that. But don't risk the tried and true things that have also worked for 150 years just in case you're wrong because there's you, there's your spouse, there's your heirs to think about." And so I think that's where we... We're in this interesting space where it's like, "I want to take some chances maybe." Or, "I want to be on some cutting edges." But let's still keep it within that speculative portion I guess, Tony, of our finances.   Tony Mauro: Yeah, very small. Very small speculative portion because that's exactly what it is. And you certainly don't want to, just like you said, risk your future on some of the speculation. Because some of it is out there and...   Marc: And it may be possible. It may absolutely be possible but it also may not.   Tony Mauro: It may be possible.   Marc: [inaudible 00:18:16] I'm still waiting on my flying car. I ain't got it yet.   Tony Mauro: I've got a client here locally, tax only, that has... He's the same way. He is invested in some Iraqi Dinari that he keeps saying that it's going to take off, it's going to be... He's been telling me this for 20 years and it's basically worth 3/10 of one cent. You don't want to get into that. I think it was a little flyer for him, I don't even know. But anyway, please consult with advisors before you do any of these kind of things and [inaudible 00:18:53]   Marc: And again, it's easy for the world's richest man to be like, "Well, if it doesn't work, well, whatever."   Tony Mauro: Yeah, whatever.   Marc: Well, he's going to fly off to Mars and not be responsible anyway.   Tony Mauro: That's right.   Marc: But look, good stuff, fun for conversation. And I think that's a piece too, I think as humans, we're always looking to try to move forward and do some things. And of course, sometimes we're trying to sell some stuff. And of course, even in Elon's case, he's trying to promote his robotics and his AI and get people on board. And the more people that are interested and on board, the better the chances of things happening and generating.   You always have to take stuff with a grain of salt and you could simply say, "Well, Mark, you're constantly saying, Hey, call Tony." Yeah, I am. I'm saying call Tony to get a strategy and a plan in place that works for your situation based on the things you've got going on in your life, and also they're backed by years of research and data. And there's no plan that's perfect but having a plan is better than having no plan.   Tony Mauro: That's right. I agree totally.   Marc: Yeah. Get yourself onto the calendar, have a consultation and a conversation with licensed professionals, CPA, CFP, EA. It's what Tony is for 30 plus years. If you need some help, find him online at yourplanningpros.com. That's your planningpros.com. We're going to wrap it up this week so thanks for hanging out with us here on Plan With The Tax Man, with Tony Mauro.   Tony, thanks for engaging and having some fun with me on this.   Tony Mauro: All right. We'll see you next time.   Marc: We'll see you next time here on the podcast.   Securities offered through Avantax Investment Services SM, member FINRA, SIPC. Investment advisory services offered through Avantax Advisory Services. Insurance services offered through an Avantax affiliated insurance agency. Investment strategies discussed in this episode may not be suitable for all investors. Please consult with a financial professional.

Are you trying to build a high-performance sales team without becoming a micromanager? In this episode, Ray Higdon breaks down the five essential elements required to create a high-performance sales culture—without pressure, burnout, or constant oversight. Most leaders think more training and more accountability will fix performance issues. But the real answer is clarity, systems, storytelling, and giving your team the tools they actually need. Ray explains why sales leaders must build scalable systems and processes, share weekly stories instead of only teaching tactics, create a searchable content library, lead by example by bringing in new production, and equip their teams with powerful sales scripts that increase confidence and close rates. If you are a sales leader, network marketing leader, entrepreneur, or team builder, this episode will show you how to improve sales performance without micromanaging every move. Keywords naturally included: high-performance sales culture, sales leadership, sales team systems, sales training strategies, sales scripts, network marketing leadership, team performance, sales management, improving sales results, leadership without micromanaging —  

Register here to attend the live virtual event "Why Central Florida is the Year's Most Compelling Housing Market" on Thursday, February 19th at 8pm Eastern. Keith looks at how a changing Federal Reserve leadership might shape the interest rate environment, then zooms in on what's really happening with homebuilders versus remodelers across the country.  You'll hear about a lesser-known strategy some investors are using to step back from day-to-day landlording while keeping their income, and then we head to Central Florida to explore why one fast-growing market is quietly becoming a hotspot for new-build rental properties.  Along the way, a longtime Florida builder joins the show to explain how they're creating affordable, investment-friendly homes and what kinds of rents and tenant demand they're seeing on the ground—plus a way you can learn more live if this opportunity fits your own portfolio plans. Resources: Register for the event at GREwebinars.com Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/592 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the naming of a new Federal Reserve Chair. Then are homebuilders in trouble today? There are a dwindling number of them, and their profits are down. I'll talk to a homebuilder. Listen to what amenities tenants want today, and it's interesting. We'll learn how low of a mortgage rate builders will give you. Now there's an opportunity here today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:30   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:14   mid south home buyers with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated, there is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com   Speaker 1  2:17   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:33   Welcome to GRE from countersport Pennsylvania to Davenport Iowa and across 488 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education now more than ever, where you learn about personal finance and real estate investing matters. There's more AI generated content out there. This show is all flesh and blood me. There's also more clickbait content out there that says something like the housing market is about to have a price crash. No, it's not. They're just there to get short term attention. So your information source really matters today. New incoming Fed chair, Kevin Warsh, was recently named. He will replace the outgoing Jerome Powell on May 15. I want to tell you more about that in a moment. But first, just imagine if this scenario were to occur, say that we get a Fed chair that has to deal with really high inflation. And so what this Fed chair does is that he successfully brings inflation down, and he does that without triggering a recession that's called a soft landing. Well, you know what? That's exactly what Jerome Powell did the past three years. Yeah, that's what he's accomplished, and he doesn't get credit for it. He only gets a lot of criticism. Now this doesn't mean that I love Powell. I don't even know that the Fed should exist at all, but Powell got a lot of criticism for calling 2022, wave of inflation transitory, and being too late to respond to it. So he gets some credit here as his term of more than eight years winds down. Let's listen in to some of Jay Powell's recent comments about succession,    Speaker 2  4:23   you've obviously experienced a lot during your time as Fed chair, served under multiple presidents. I'm wondering what advice you have for whoever your successor might be.   Speaker 3  4:34   Honestly, I'd say a couple of things. One is, you know, stay out of elected politics. Don't get pulled into elected politics don't do it. And that's another thing. Another is that you know, our window into democratic accountability is Congress, and it's not a passive burden for us to go. To Congress and talk to people. It's an affirmative, regular obligation. If you want democratic legitimacy, you earn it by your interactions with the our elected overseers. And so it's something you need to work hard at, and I have worked hard at it so and the last thing is, you know, it's easy to it's easy to criticize government institutions so many ways. I will tell whoever it is you're about to meet the most qualified group of people you not only have ever worked with, you will ever work with and when you meet fed staff. And not everybody's perfect, but, but there isn't a better cadre of professionals more dedicated to the public well being than work at the Fed.    Keith Weinhold  5:43   Yeah. So to Powell's point, the next Fed chair, worsh, does champion fed independence, much like Powell has. That is a good thing that keeps America from turning into a banana republic that maintains a strong dollar. Warsh was actually a Fed Governor back during the 2008 global financial crisis, so he's got that experience when he comes in as Fed Chair in three months, he's widely expected to lower interest rates more than Powell did, much like the president wants. Kevin Warsh looks a lot like Michael Scott from the office. He has got to be less bumbling than him, though, overall, the effect on real estate and mortgage rates by shifting from PAL to worsh, I mean, that should be pretty mild. Maybe you'll see rates go a little lower than if pal had stayed and speaking of rates, wait till you see how low the mortgage rate is that our homebuilder guest is offering today. What's really happening with homebuilders now? How much trouble are they in? Homebuilders have largely been maligned. Overall. There are fewer homebuilders today in America than there were 20 years ago, and there are more remodelers than there were 20 years ago, fewer home builders, more remodelers, and that's for a few different reasons. Over the past couple decades, we just have substantially higher labor and material costs, stricter building and energy codes, higher interest rates, and that disproportionately hurts long duration construction projects. We've got zoning constraints and land constraints that make ground up development slow and uncertain and risky. So while the number of Home Builders in America is down, the number of remodelers are up, because America's housing stock is getting older. Its median age is over 40 years, and that creates constant demand for upgrades. Capital prefers faster, lower risk cycles. That's what remodels offer, and homeowners with locked in low mortgage rates choose to stay in place. And what does that make them do? That makes them renovate and remodel, not move. So this is why, compared to 20 years ago, you have fewer home builders and more remodelers. Today, that's per the NAHB and the Census Bureau and all these forces, they've resulted in a lower profit margin for homebuilders. Yes, homebuilder margin compression for a lot of the bigger builders, including DR Horton, just as you might guess in this cycle, their profits were greatest in 2022 and they have fallen since then. Higher mortgage rates came in, and builders had to lose profits by offering more incentives to entice buyers. You're going to learn more about that today and how it really spells quite an opportunity for you and I. When the final change in national home prices was tallied for the end of last year, they had risen in 16,500 zip codes. All right, that's 63% of America's zip codes, and prices were lower from a year earlier in the other 37% home price gains were concentrated in the Northeast and Midwest, and the story there continues to be too many buyers and not enough homes. In fact, over 85% of zip codes saw price growth in Illinois, Connecticut, Wisconsin and Indiana, slow, steady, stubborn, kind of like winter refusing to leave. Losses were predominant in the Sun Belt. Prices caught their breath there. There was price attrition in Florida, with 96% of zip codes, so nearly all of Florida, then California, 78% of zip codes had a price loss. Texas, 75% of them and Arizona, 73% the biggest pocket of opportunity appears to be in Florida. Florida property is on sale. And because real estate is local. A lot of times we talk here nationally, but to get to that local level, sometimes you have to dig in to a local market to really find out what's going on. We're going to do that today. Now, central Miami, Orlando and Tampa, they're not generally the spot for obtaining cash flow from long term rentals. I've identified an opportunity. We'll get into that with this Florida homebuilder shortly. It's kind of funny. You'll run into people that say they want opportunity, but what they really want is certainty. How it plays out, though, is that once the certainty arrives, the opportunity is gone, and that's how to think about Florida and maybe Texas and some of these other markets today that have had price attrition.    Keith Weinhold  10:48   Now, three weeks ago, here on the show, I discussed the 721 exchange for the first time. So I won't get into all those details again when it comes time for you to sell your investment property, the 721 can be the best way for you to cash out. Perhaps you've been investing in real estate for a while and you have turned get rich education into got rich education. How the 721 exchange works is they basically say you have a case where you're a rental property owner and you realize that you don't want the hassles of landlording anymore. Oftentimes, this can mean you're older and real estate investing already took you where you wanted it to take you in life's journey, but you still like the financial benefit that ownership gives you. What you can do is exchange your properties into a partnership and receive shares in that partnership. Now that's different than a 1031, exchange. That's where you trade up some of your property that you directly own for what's usually more and larger property that you directly own. Well, instead, here's the big deal with exchanging your properties into a 721, partnership. The rules stipulate that this is not a taxable event, and therefore you don't have to pay any capital gains tax or depreciation recapture. Now that you're an owner in the partnership, you still get some of the benefits of owning the property, like appreciation and cash flow and such, yet no management or landlording at all like you would have with a 1031 and with a 721 you get all these benefits across a greater number of properties and markets diversification because you're a fractional owner in the other properties that are in the partnership, not only your own, and when you eventually pass away, your shares are stepped up in basis and can be distributed equally to heirs and C It's surely easier for you to divide shares among, say, your three children, than it is to divide your 18 rental houses among three children Who are going to have different goals and varying degrees of financial savvy. So the 721, exchange is a great estate planning tool too. You will have this partnership that makes an offer to buy your property. You're exchanging them for partnership shares. There's a firm that does this called flock homes, and they have a certain Buy Box to be clear with the 721, exchange, you can basically trade your rentals for shares in a diversified, professionally managed Real Estate Fund. This means that you keep your hard earned equity defer capital gains and other taxes, and you still get access to steady income and long term appreciation without the hassle of landlord duties, and you can visit flockhomes.com/gre, and get a free valuation. Get an offer for your property, see if it fits their buy box and see how much they'll pay you. There's often no need to pay to fix up or stage the property for sale or pay agent commissions for a certain investor type. This really can be a rather life changing experience for you to liquidate some or all of your property have zero tax obligation and still enjoy income and appreciation. So again, what you can do is stop by flock homes.com/gre, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/g, R, E, let's discuss the home building climate today.   Keith Weinhold  14:38   I'd like to bring in a premium Florida homebuilder guest to the show, Jim, because there has been more homebuilding in Florida such that some areas of the state have excess supply. And when you add that onto the fact that the hot pandemic migration to Florida has slowed such that home prices have made a rare dip in the state, that is why it. A timely topic. Jim, you're on GRE Welcome to the show. Keith, great to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, and we did the IRL thing in Colorado there a few weeks ago. That was great hanging out in person. You provide entry level new build homes, mostly in Central Florida. And these are properties that are conducive to real estate pays five ways. These are properties that investors chiefly buy as rentals. So just bigger picture, tell us about that overall experience over, say, the last five years, as the pandemic wound down,    Jim Sheils  15:35   yeah, as the pandemic wound down, obviously Florida had a lot of attention. Some of it, rightly so, some of it, I think a little more inflated and commercial attention getting thrown at it. And you know, the type of deals that you and I have always stayed away from were very popular in Florida. You know, we're talking really nice houses. Keith, beautiful, nice HOAs people got in in 2021 let's say, with those very low interest rates on a six or $700,000 home, but now they're realizing that it's not going up $100,000 a year as they thought. And when they try to sell it, well, people trying to buy in $700,000 home, they're not getting that low interest rate. And if these people try to hold it and rent it, well, it doesn't cash flow, so it breaks one of those rules. It's not putting money in people's pockets, taking it out. And so we're seeing there was a large distribution of those types of houses around Florida. And then there were some builders like us that really focused on what was the most needed, and that was workforce housing. Now workforce housing, though, Keith, as you know, a lot of the builders don't want to build it. Why? Let's be straight. It's because the margins are lower right. But as you know, with me and my partner Chris, it was always let's make less margin and do more volume. That was always our model, and that was the area of the market where we felt we could build it right, we could get it financed right, and we could manage it right to hit the five things. And so we're seeing today, post pandemic, there are still key markets where the population growth is still the highest, coming into Florida, the prices are still the lowest, and there is a shortage of this type of workforce housing.   Keith Weinhold  17:11   Yes, you've identified a geography within Florida that have some of these characteristics like you're talking about. Tell us more about that region.   Jim Sheils  17:20   Yeah, we call it the Ocala region, so Central Florida, just west of Orlando. Right now, for example, u haul does their U haul top markets rankings every year? So where are the most U haul trucks going to now, you don't want to be on their side where they're coming from, Keith, because that's obviously the opposite. But for the second year in a row, the greater Ocala area has been the number 1u haul destination place in the country. So there's still a ton of population growth going there. Central Florida, I'm not going to say it sat out the growth during the pandemic that a lot of areas of Florida did, but it was starting at such a low basis with such a small amount of attention that today, even when people say, oh gosh, like I just said, house is 600 700 800,000 we're building new construction single family homes for under 300,000 the 270s a lot of the time. And we're building duplexes sometimes for under 400,000 and a lot of our you know, investors coming from the west coast. Say, are these fully built? Are they? But again, Central Florida has had a great affordability. Remain intact. It has a large population going in. There is a ton of job resource just blowing up in the area. And as you know, these are the things we look for. So we bought a lot of lots there. I'm gonna give credit to my partner, Chris. He saw calla more than I did, and we bought a lot of lots there in 2020 so before all the rises. So we got into the land basis, right? So that means we can build them at a great price. Our land basis is low, and that obviously passes along to our clients. And again, Central Florida is a perfect match for our goal. Because, you know, our goal is workforce housing, that cash flows on day one. But also nothing wrong with fixer uppers. I own a lot. I used to do a lot, but the new construction seems to have a little bit more of a less involvement, which it seems like a lot of our clients want.   Keith Weinhold  19:15   That was really prescient, as it turned out, for your business partner, Chris there to gobble up a lot of that land in 2020 before prices went soaring. And this is one reason why you can do things like offer a duplex for less than 400k That's a new build, which has some people saying like, does that thing include a roof even? But it surely does. These are very good quality livable properties. And the reason I have you here, Jim is because you are rare. There are fewer builders today than there were in decades past, and also those that build to your point earlier. They only want to build higher end properties, not the more affordable ones that you offer. We'll get more details on your price points and what properties. Products you offer later. But yeah, we have more remodelers today and fewer builders. And though it's a few years old, I found it interesting that census statistics show us that between 2007 and 2022 there are 73% more remodelers and 21% fewer builders today.    Jim Sheils  20:22   Interesting. You know, Keith, I didn't know that, and that makes me scratch my head on like when you and I were in Colorado, we were talking about future needs, even with growth that occurred during the pandemic going all the way back to oh eight when a real shortage started to start, we are still at an estimated three to 5 million homes short in the US. It really perplexes me that the amount of builders like us will be going down and not actually entering the market.   Keith Weinhold  20:47   Now, among those that are building, though, much of that is concentrated in the South, as I think we know, there's a recent resi club compilation show that 59% of current single family home building is in the south, and 41% is everywhere else. And how do you define the South? That's basically Maryland down to Florida, all the way out to Texas and Oklahoma. So you are pretty rare in some ways. However, where you're building regionally, that's not a rarity there, but yeah, having more remodelers today and fewer home builders, that's probably the result of a lot of things. You know, for one thing, just land and construction costs becoming that much more expensive over the past five years.   Jim Sheils  21:05    Yeah, we've been lucky, too, as you know, Keith, you've been with us for a decade now. But yeah, and we transitioned a piece of our company where Sumitomo forestry, large Japanese group stepped in and acquired a piece of our property. That was a very exciting thing for all of us together, because we had done well, and, you know, started small and built up to a decent sized builder for Northeast Florida and then the rest of Florida. But now, with Sumitomo coming in again, they build 17,000 homes worldwide every year, between all of their builders. Now being a part of them, we get to use their national material accounts, so they get pricing just as good, if not better, than national home builders, and they let us do our thing, stick to our build to rent, working with investor clients. We're not retail buyer guys, really. We like working with our investors, but just getting those great discounts on materials, again, we're always looking to pass on savings to our clients. Of course, we got to make margins as well, but if we're getting in with deals like that, getting into the land right, and knowing the pinpointed areas to get into, we can get the best deal for everyone. And that's been a major part having such a big, successful partner like Sumitomo keep us healthy, viable and able to do things we could have not even dreamed of five years ago.   Keith Weinhold  22:47   Yes, that gives you more capital and more options. Another unusual aberration in the market that really centers on a lot of what you do is that this fact that and this was mentioned on the show last year for the first time in my life, existing homes cost more than new build homes. Existing homes at about 420k nationally, and new build homes about 392k part of the divergence there is probably builder price cuts. So tell us more about that.    Jim Sheils  23:14   I think the issue Heath is builders built for largest spreads, and people bought very emotionally. I think you're to give you a compliment a very unemotional real estate buyer. You're not looking at, oh, this is a very nice, you know, extra his and hers porcelain sink. And we're looking at fundamental numbers a good, solid property. And I think what's caused a lot of that is people did the opposite. Builders were looking for the largest margin they could get, which was on those types of properties. And then buyers were looking very emotionally, and they were told, Hey, this is going to go up 50 to $100,000 a year. So just sit there and hold on, sure you'll lose $1,500 a month, but don't worry about it. You'll make up for that every year. And obviously we're not seeing that's true. They could have really used your class about the five ways to get paid in real estate. And I think that that's what's doing it. And this is what builders do. I mean, everyone's in a business, and a lot of builders just focus on the largest margin. Now that's eating them up now, because those types of properties are not in demand. To build them on spec would be very dangerous, but you can see that that worked for a short term. We're very glad we went to the low margin workforce housing model, because I see that falling out of favor almost never even in Oh 809, Keith, when I was in the remodel game, a lot of the properties that were new construction coming out that time they were affordable, still did very well.   Keith Weinhold  24:42   We're talking with a premium Florida homebuilder today, because they offer affordable properties that make sense for investors. But what about the demand? Where is that going to come from? Where is that going to be? And that's what's happening with the renter segment. We'll talk more about that when we. Come back. You're listening to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold,   Keith Weinhold  25:03   flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem, property or your whole portfolio through a 721, exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre.    Keith Weinhold  25:39   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  26:51   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Ken McElroy  27:26   this is Rich Dad advisor, Ken McElroy. Listen to get rich education with Keith whitehold, and don't twitch your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  27:40   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, we're talking with Jim a premium Florida homebuilder here at such an interesting time in the cycle, since supply is up in some parts of Florida, Jim and his team has strategically chosen a place that is still fueling a lot of net in migration in Central Florida, and that's where the rental demand needs to come from as well. Now nationally, we've seen the homeownership rate fall over about the past year, from near 66% to near 65% that does not sound like much, but a 1% shift means there are 1.3 million new renters in just the past year. So with that in mind, and the fact that this low affordability for home buying means that people need to rent or stay renters longer, provides some of the Sustainable demand. So tell us more about the rental demand in Central Florida.   Jim Sheils  28:39   Yeah, you know, when we first went out there about a decade ago, Keith, I think it was 82 or 83% of all properties out there were owner occupied, which means it was a very lopsided amount of existing rental property available. And this is before the curve of population growth really took off. But when Chris and I went out there and we were assessing that small percentage of rental property that was out there. Gosh, it was old and kind of beat up. There was not a lot like the new construction that was available. So when we brought in new construction, we saw just the competition. Was hard to compete with us. You know, when it was an older, not so nice taking care of we came in and we saw a jump from, you know, doing older houses ourselves, you know, a person would stay about 13 months. But for the new construction in Central Florida, we've seen a jump to about three years. So that's really positive. People get into a new construction property they don't want to leave, whether that's half of a duplex or a single family. The duplexes are interesting because we're able to build those on infill lots and existing single family home neighborhoods, so a person who doesn't want to live in an apartment can live there, have their own yard, and they couldn't afford the whole single family, but to have half of a single family basically what a duplex is. It makes a big difference, and the people are in great demand of rental in Central Florida there because of exactly why. I said, Keith, the job. Course, continues to grow in Central Florida, extremely strong. The business incentives to come into the area by the local municipality is very, very good. So here's something interesting, Keith, the average salary in Ocala is about 72,000 and the average home price is about 298,000 that is a very healthy affordability one. Yeah, very, very good. And so that job source continues to pay very well. And we've talked about just the logistics centers and the Equestrian Center. That's the largest in the world. Now the villages are just 25 miles south. So Ocala becomes a bedroom community, and that is the second largest retirement community and growing in the US. So there's a lot of job source that allows people to live there at a good affordability. And so that combination of affordability with this extending job source has been really, really good for the Ocala region.   Keith Weinhold  30:59   It's been said that the only place you get money is from other people, and we're talking about your renters in this case. So oftentimes these renters, they had their sense of privacy there, like, for example, do the duplexes even have fenced backyards for each individual side,   Jim Sheils  31:17   depending on where they are? We will. Other times it hasn't been a requirement. We've done lots of surveys to see is it worth the price point to put in full fencing in certain areas. It can be in a lot of areas. Keith, they're just so excited with the price point not having to move into an apartment building that it hasn't even been warranted or necessary.   Keith Weinhold  31:38   Yeah. So we're talking about livability characteristics here, because oftentimes new build rental property results in a higher tenant stay that longer duration, because they're the first person that have ever lived there, and it's also difficult for them to go out and improve their living situation unless they become a home buyer, and that's difficult to do today. Tell us more about the incentives and the property types and so on, because there really are some pretty exciting ones.    Jim Sheils  32:09   One of the best things about Central Florida, Keith, combined with new construction, is insurance costs. Now you and I have laughed about the blanketed statement where you said, oh my goodness, you cannot get insurance in Florida. You can't get property insurance in Florida, or it's doubled, tripled, gone up 7x that is a true statement on certain properties. If you're buying older properties from the 1950s that are within a half mile of the beach on low lying ground, but new construction properties far away from the beach, that is a totally different things. So again, being in Central Florida, where we are, a lot of people think, oh, to insure a single family home there, that's going to be several $100 a month, when actually, you know, and you've seen a lot of our performer quotes, our insurance companies are getting a single family home done for about $65 a month on average, full coverage. And that's the advantage of new construction. Insurance companies are all about risk. They analyze risk. When you're on a new construction property built on higher ground away from the beach, they like that, and they do that a duplex. You're looking at about $100 a month. So incentive wise, we've really searched to team up with great insurance companies that get the best rates full coverage. And again, we surprise people when they say, Oh man, I thought there would be a whole nother zero at that monthly cost. And these are actual quotes, as you know, with working with a lot of GRE people. So that's one great thing, another great thing, Keith, that happened when we joined forces with Sumitomo. And again, Sumitomo 320, years old, one of the biggest powerhouses out of Asia, Warren Buffett, is very heavily invested in another one of the conglomerates, not the housing one we do, but he's very involved in one of their other companies. And when they came aboard, you know, we have no bank debt for a builder, which is rare. And since we have such a healthy balance sheet, we're actually able to work deals with mortgage companies where we'll do what's called builder forward commitments, Keith, and that means we will pre buy mortgages for our clients, for the homes we're building, and we will pass that savings along. So right now, you know, if an investment property in a duplex might be an average of 7% for anyone who walks in off the street to a bank. Right now, our most popular rate program for our investors, for single family or duplexes, is 3.75 Gosh. So as you know, for your five ways, if we want to get cash flow, there's a big difference. Yeah, we're getting affordable housing. But if the rate is over 7% compared to 375 that could eat up the cash flow with us being able to have this power to buy large tranches of money and pass it along and lock our people in again, an average right now at 3.75 is our most popular program, and that's long term money, then we're able to get that cash flow right off the bat. And you and I know how important that is   Keith Weinhold  34:50    for this super attractive 3.75% long term mortgage rate on single family homes and duplexes. How? Much does the buyer have to come out of pocket at the closing table to buy that down themselves? And how much do you the builder participate in that buy down?   Jim Sheils  35:07   You know, it depends Keith at different times, because there is a little bit of a fluctuation. Sometimes it can be as low as zero points or just one origination point to bring it in. It does vary. And also, if people say, hey, I really don't want to bring in any points. Well, that's fine. You know, if you don't want to walk in zero to 2% points for that, you can also just raise your rate up to four and a quarter and probably walk in nothing. So there's different things that we can do, but the goal of it is to have us have the brunt of it. And what I can tell you is, if the average person walked into a bank, and a bank wouldn't do this anyway. It's only for, again, builders with a certain size, but if you went into a bank right now and said, I'd like to buy my rate down to 3.75 the average Keith that this would cost a person off the street going into a bank would be 12 to 15% banks wouldn't even do it for an individual. But that's about the estimates when you look at it. So again, volume has privileged. The fact we're able to buy it down. It does cost us a good amount of money, but we're all able to save since we're kind of working together to buy these larger tranches. And again, the need of any investment for buying down the rate from the clients is very minimal.   Keith Weinhold  36:18   Tell us more about the property types, new build single family homes, new build duplexes.   Jim Sheils  36:23   You know, single family and duplexes are our main focus in 2026 for Central Florida, we've done the research. They're very high in demand. They rent quickly, and they rent long term to produce cash flow. Our average single family home under 300,000 we're aiming to after expense, make about $300 cash flow. Our duplexes should be about twice that amount, about just under $600 a month, or just over in cash flow. And then again, the prices are ranging from about 395, to 420, for a duplex. Again, these are in workforce areas where we're doing great, scattered lots. Scattered lot means there's already existing homes around. We like to go to an area where there's good a fundamental balance of homeowners and renters. So there's retail buyers that have bought their first home, and we will place our rentals in between them, whether it's a single family or a duplex.   Keith Weinhold  37:13   We sure don't need to do a complete audio pro forma here, but those cash flow amounts something near $300 for a single family home, and about double that for a duplex. Is that using, you know, a bought down rate to about 4% and some of these other inputs you're talking about, like low insurance costs and a certain property tax rate, can you tell us about that?    Jim Sheils  37:35   Yeah, property tax rate is property tax rate. We can get pretty dang close on property taxes, you know, based on millage and get that down. But when we do our performers, we absolutely go off of, you know, our average rate to be the 375, to four and a quarter. And then when GRE clients look at our performer, and they look at the insurance cost, that's an actual quote from one of our insurance companies that has insured hundreds and hundreds of these properties. Not a guess, yeah, so they know what they're doing. So yeah, those would be the assumptions made in there, and that's what we're basically getting on a week in, week out basis.    Keith Weinhold  38:09   That is really attractive as we're talking about new build. I imagine there is some sort of builder warranty as well.    Jim Sheils  38:16   There's a state mandated 210 warranty. 210 warranty is something we could talk probably a whole episode on Keith. But for what's good for people to know, basically what that means, you get two years coverage on the small stuff and 10 years coverage on the big structural stuff. And so that's why I like new construction. You know what? I used to personally just buy my own fixer up Return key properties from other people. I could get a one year warranty, and that's the best that really can be done. Now with new construction, we've gone from, you know, with our fixer upper homes, able to do a one year warranty, which is good at something. But now with new construction, we can do a 210 warranty, big difference, and also really helps the safety score of issues if they came up.    Keith Weinhold  38:59   We were talking about new build property, and we tend to project relatively low maintenance and repair costs for an obvious reason, maybe your long term vacancy rate could very well be lower as well, due to my earlier point about a tenant wanting to stay there for a long time, because it's hard for them to improve their living situation unless they went out and bought their own place. And you have the low insurance rates, and you have the low mortgage rates, all contributing to positive cash flow on a new build property. And we think about that tenant and what gets the tenant excited? We start to think about some of those amenities. So tell us about what amenities are offered, including inside, in the kitchen and so on.   Jim Sheils  39:38   Jim, yeah, great question, Keith. We've really gotten a great recipe for success for that. You know, we've been doing this a little over a decade now, and so you're always tweaking your build model. What do people like? What do they not like? What's good for durability? Let's look at maintenance and repairs. Let's look at turn costs. So our goal is always the dual focus. That's what looks good. And what lasts really well, yeah, because you want durability. When you have tenants, you want it to look good, so you sell it down the road, 510, years to a first time homebuyer, it looks great. You can sell it. But durability wise, you don't want a lot of extra expenses or maintenance and repairs. So we go durability. So what we found a couple of things. I always joke about this. I do not like the word carpet, Keith, that is a terrible swear word in real estate investing, I can tell you right now, if I could go back and this is not, you know, owning hundreds of rentals, if I could not have done carpet and just reversed it to like vinyl plank flooring, like we do now, or even tile, which was more, I probably would have been able to buy three or four of our duplexes cash with the amount of money, and that is not an exaggeration. So we do not do carpet. First of all, it seems like trends are changing. It's not in favor right now. So we do vinyl plank flooring, which looks really nice, almost like wood floors, super durable, though, for a young family that's going to be tenant occupied in your property and running around on it. That's great. Kitchen wise, again, we don't sell retail really. We like to work with investors, but down the road, our investor might want to sell to a retail buyer. So we know, you know, from our old fix and flip days of the FHA buyers, the kitchen's got a pop. So we always do, you know, we don't do the white appliances, which you know would save you quite a bit of money, and save us quite a bit of money. We do stainless steel appliances. We do all new cabinetry, you know, kind of the latest, nicer cabinetry, a little bit of an upgrade. And then, you know, butcher block countertops, those are going to wear in about a year or two. Keith, it feels really good to spend that smaller amount, you know. But we, we like to do the more durable, nice looking countertops, you know, that are, you know, just so much more esthetically pleasing and actually durable as well. Same thing in the bathrooms. A lot of new builders will do shower kit, which not a problem if you're saving money on a rehab, you know, but we would rather do tile, bring in the extra subcontractors to give tile, and then in the master we do the dual sinks, which this might sound like little stuff, Keith, but these are the micro movements that help get a tenant in quicker, stay longer and more rent. So we're always trying to do these extra things in the granite countertops, both in the kitchens and in the bathrooms. Those cost more upfront, but we see for long term of tenant we see, for the amount of rent we get, and for resale ability, because a lot of people don't think about that. You know what? In seven years you want to sell one of these properties? Well, it's a seven year old roof, it's seven year old plumbing, you're still in a great spot for an FHA buyer. And that esthetically pleasing flooring, bathrooms, kitchens. That allows an easier sale for them, because we want to look all the way around, not just a rental. I like to hold long term, but if you want to sell in five to 10 years, that's a very valid strategy.    Keith Weinhold  42:48   I like carpet in my own home, but not rentals. But what you're sharing with us, Jim, this is absolute gold that's been brought to you through experience. This over improvement versus under improvement line in rentals, and it really has a lot of balance between durability and price. These are the sort of things that really matter, but you are selling predominantly to individual investors, a lot of mom and pop investors. Why don't you make more sales to the retail, owner occupied market, or to institutional investors, even though that might be cracked down upon now. But why don't you sell to those parties?   Jim Sheils  43:26   Yeah, you know Keith, I did a lot of fix and flip to FHA buyers, and I'm an investor. I really like working with investors. So when this all really went back to is 2009 I had a lot of investors. I was in Northeast Florida. The deal flow was incredible. And I just had a lot of investors, you know, through my different networks and Masterminds, like, where you and I have met, and said, Hey, you're getting great deals in Northeast Florida. Could you help put some together for me? And so I had done quite a few fix and flips to retail buyers, and it just kind of hot on me, you know, way back then, like, Wow. I like working with investors. I like building portfolios. I also like the fact that when I'm normally building a portfolio for an investor, well, they hang out with other investors, and they're not looking to buy one property over the next five years. They're looking to buy five to eight properties over the next five years. great point. And so we just saw it as you gotta like who you work with, right? And nothing against first time homebuyers. But when I was rehabbing houses and selling them, golly, that was a lot of work. And then could be persnickety. Yeah, very persnickety. And so when Chris and I teamed up about 10 years ago, we had both gone through the same kind of aha, like going, Yeah, it seems great, but you could sell for more to a retail buyer. But again, like I go back to even the type of property we build, we'd rather do a volume with investors. Be a builder, buy investors for investors, and work that way. And I think it suits me. I think I would have probably hung up my shoes a long time ago if I was. Working with the amount of properties we've done with retail buyers compared to investors, honestly, and so I think it was just kind of, it was a preference, really, that made sense   Keith Weinhold  45:09   to your point. Investors buy multiple properties, and that way there are fewer parties to deal with. And investors tend to be less emotional than those more persnickety, owner occupied buyers. Well, Jim, you make it easy for investors. Besides all these incentives, you also offer an in house management solution for these investors, often that tend to be out of state. Well, Jim, before I ask you, if you have any closing thoughts, would you the listener like to ask Jim any question directly? Well, you can, because I have a great event to tell you about next Thursday, the 19th, at 8pm eastern Jim here and GRE investment coach, Naresh will co host a live webinar for Central Florida new build income property. In fact, Jim, I think you know Naresh longer than I have, as it turns out, but this event is free, and you the listener are invited. We've had between 250 and 550 registrants for our past webinars. Not all of them attend live. So the benefit of you attending live is that you can have any of your questions answered by either Naresh or Jim in real time, and besides learning about the Central Florida market and more about home building, you are going to see available new build income property, real addresses with some of these rather grand incentives that we've talked about here, you might end up with a long term rate of about 4% again, it is Thursday, the 19th at 8pm Eastern. Sign up is open now at grewebinars.com that's grewebinars.com Any final thoughts here, Jim, for this great event coming up next week?   Jim Sheils  46:52   I think we're going to dig a little deeper. Obviously, this is a conversation that was great, but moves pretty quickly when we talk next week, we're going to be able to dig into more of the fundamentals, some of the stats, and just get underneath the hood of why Central Florida is making so much sense, and just some of the rising stars that we're seeing there that we're very excited to be a part of.   Keith Weinhold  47:13   You've helped our listeners for close to 10 years now. It's been an informative chat as always. Thanks so much for coming back onto the show.    Jim Sheils  47:21   Thanks for having me, Keith.   Keith Weinhold  47:27   Yeah, like our guest touched on Ocala, Florida now has national recognition as the fastest growing city in America, and that's for the second year in a row. According to a new U haul report, Florida is, of course, a rather landlord friendly state. In fact, Florida is the first state to enact a law that allows law enforcement to immediately remove squatters, distinguishing them from legal tenants. Now here's what's interesting and why I've identified this opportunity if Florida prices dipped because people were leaving now, that could be a red flag, because population loss is like gravity. Once it starts falling, it is hard to escape. But that's not what's happening. Instead, what we're seeing is a temporary overbuild hangover. Builders got ambitious. We're in a brief period where supply outran demand and prices softened. That's not decay. That's a sale rack. Any vacant homes are not stranded. They're being absorbed by Florida's still growing population, which has now increased every single decade since its first census count, back in the year 1830 back in 1830 there were about 35,000 residents in the whole state. Isn't that amazing today? North of 24 million, that is 700x population growth in almost 200 years, and it's still growing. That kind of trend doesn't reverse because a few builders over ordered inventory here at GRE this made us target and find in opportunity. This isn't an accident. Central Florida is this year's most compelling. Housing market in that region, Central Florida, is growing faster than the rest of the state at large, and it really sits in the sweet spot of this temporary imbalance. One long established builder overbuilt and now they're motivated. They know what investors want. So, for example, they don't build swimming pools with their homes. They also offer property tours, and over 90% of their tour attendees buy property. They're willing to offer terrific incentives at our upcoming GRE live webinar, like we touched on new build single family rentals, 270k and up duplexes, three. 95 to 420, long term mortgage rates as low as 3.75% you get low insurance rates since they're inland and new build positive cash flow and a builder warranty at the event. You're going to learn all about the growth drivers in Central Florida, why so many renters are moving there and see available properties. This benefits anyone looking for a clear, practical view of current real estate conditions. Joining live does matter, since you can have those questions answered in real time, not after the opportunity has moved on, you are invited for next Thursday, the 19th, at 8p m Eastern. This one is worth circling, not because it's flashy, because it's timed right. Sign up is open now @grewebinars.com that's gre webinars.com. Until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 5  51:00   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  51:29   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com  

LLC asset protection expert Garrett Sutton, Rich Dad advisor and Corporate Direct founder, joins attorney Ted Sutton to reveal entity structuring strategies that protect entrepreneurs from lawsuits while optimizing tax savings. Operating as a sole proprietor exposes you to five times greater IRS audit risk and unlimited personal liability—this episode provides proven frameworks successful business owners use to build wealth without risking everything. You'll discover: why Wyoming LLCs offer superior charging order protection for real estate investors and crypto assets at just $62 annually, how S corp taxation eliminates 15.3% payroll tax on distributions (saving $6,000+ yearly on $100K income), the catastrophic mistakes DIY entity formation creates, and proper multi-state holding company structures. Garrett shares Robert Kiyosaki's asset protection philosophy from Start Your Own Corporation and Loopholes of Real Estate, explaining how entity structures integrate with trust planning to avoid probate. Ted addresses Corporate Transparency Act compliance and March 2026 FinCEN reporting requirements for cash real estate transactions. Perfect for established entrepreneurs with $100K+ income seeking business growth frameworks that integrate tax planning with asset protection. Essential topics include: choosing between Delaware, Nevada, and Wyoming jurisdictions, structuring holding companies for rental properties, protecting crypto in LLCs, building your money team with CPAs and attorneys, and avoiding the sole proprietorship trap. This conversation bridges startup entity selection with advanced scaling strategies for coaching businesses, real estate portfolios, and service-based enterprises prioritizing sustainable growth with integrated liability protection.

Many sales leaders believe their teams are burned out—but the truth is far more subtle and far more dangerous. In this episode, Ray Higdon explains why most sales teams are not burned out at all. They are quietly disengaged. Unlike burnout, which is loud and obvious, disengagement is silent. People stop showing up, stop participating, and slowly fade away without ever saying a word. Ray breaks down the three primary reasons sales reps disengage, including leadership messaging that does not speak to them, leaders prioritizing their own goals over their team's goals, and the loss of hope caused by unrealistic success stories. This episode is essential for sales leaders, network marketing leaders, entrepreneurs, and managers who want to re-engage their teams, improve retention, and lead with clarity instead of pressure.   —  

Why do some sales teams grow consistently while others stall, struggle, or quietly fade out? In this episode, Ray Higdon breaks down the four non-negotiable elements every sales team needs in order to grow. These are not tactics, hacks, or pressure-based strategies. They are leadership fundamentals that create belief, momentum, and long-term retention. Ray explains why most people are not playing to win, how hope fuels action, why structure removes fear, how culture keeps people engaged, and why knowing what to say determines whether reps actually do the work. This episode also includes a candid warning about misusing AI tools in sales conversations and how poor posture costs teams real revenue. This is essential listening for sales leaders, network marketing leaders, entrepreneurs, and managers who want to build a team that grows without burnout, pressure, or constant micromanagement.   —  

Summary  In part two, Todd shares the essential ideas he believes every advisor and client should understand: the difference between savings and investments, why life insurance belongs in the "certainty asset" category, how cash protects against both gray and black swan events, and why net worth isn't the real target—cash flow and distribution are. The trio explores asset sequence, liquidity, and why small strategic changes over time outperform "swinging for the fences." If you want to advise more effectively, make smarter financial decisions, or reshape how you think about money and risk, this episode is the place to start.   Episode Highlights 00:00:14 - Conversation with Todd Langford. 00:02:00 - Investment vs. Savings. 00:04:54 - Certainty in Financial Strategies. 00:06:46 - Black Swan and Grey Swan Events. 00:10:39 - Importance of Distribution Phase. 00:13:32 - Growth at the Edge of the Coin. 00:15:31 - Casino Success vs. Financial Reality. 00:11:00 - Savings vs. Rate of Return.   Episode Resources sagewealthstrategy.com About Todd And The Financial Software Guest Name Todd LangfordGuest Emailtlangford@truthconcepts.com Additional guest  David Zapata davidzapata@factumfinancial.com   Keywords Wade Borth podcast   financial clarity   financial life   Todd Langford   industry insights   learner's mentality   whole life insurance   investment vs. savings   certainty vs. uncertainty   real estate market   stock market   asset integration   financial strategy   distribution phase   net worth vs. cashflow   financial advisors   black swan events   gray swan events   financial risk management   liquidity   rate of return   financial planning   Robert Kiyosaki   financial decisions   financial growth   strategic plan   financial journey  

Keith shares how a recent trip to Colorado Springs and a changing commission landscape reveal what really matters for real estate investors now From there, the show dives into the three levers investors truly control—leverage, operations, and relationships—before welcoming lender Caeli Ridge to break down the major mortgage options for investors. You'll hear how different loan types fit different strategies: from your first conventional "golden ticket" loans, to DSCR loans based on property income, to short-term fix-and-flip and bridge loans that prioritize speed and flexibility.  The episode then moves into how more advanced investors can scale beyond 10 doors, navigate debt-to-income and tax strategy, and even approach financing for short-term rentals—all while highlighting why having the right lending partner and long-term plan can make a big difference to your results. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/591 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold with new ways to think about your life through goals momentum in the real estate market. Then learn about various mortgage loan types, conventional DSCR, fix and flip, bridge loans, short term rental loans and more. Knowing which loans to use can save you millions and learn the fatal mortgage mistakes you must avoid today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:29   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads and 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 1  1:14   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:30   Welcome to GRE from Winnebago, Minnesota to Winnipeg, Manitoba, and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education, the voice of real estate investing since 2014 before we get into the mortgage discussion, where we'll discuss five or 10 different investor loan types and their various pros and cons, which could save you millions over the course of your life. I shared with you that I traveled to Colorado A couple weeks ago, for a goals retreat hosted by the real estate guys, top notch event, I spent extra time there in Colorado Springs, because I find it really livable, and I spent five hours with a local realtor there, one day out and about visiting properties in the area I'm potentially looking for a home or a second home. And by the way, how is this for a price range? The realtor wanted to know what my Buy Box is, and since I'm just learning the Colorado Springs market, I told him I'm willing to spend between 400k and 1.2 million on the property, yeah, pretty wide range, a mile wide. Fortunately, my other Buy Box criteria are more narrow and specific, and I have got to say, I'm surprised at how low the area's home prices are. I thought they'd be higher. Interestingly, before touring homes, my buyer agent wanted me to sign a six month exclusive representation agreement. Fair enough, that's standard stuff. It was on the agreement, though, that I as the buyer pay a 3% commission up on the purchase, and the seller would presumably pay the other 3% to make up that total 6% commission for the agent compensation. Well, historically, the seller paid the entire 6% and this, of course, goes back to the NAR settlement, and that ruling that became effective in August of 2024 you probably remember this, and I talked about it on the show back then, and how it's not really that big of a deal, especially to investors like us, because at GRE marketplace and with our GRE investment coaching, it's a direct model. There's zero commission on either side, and then you, in turn, get some of those savings, but out in the larger world and in the owner occupant world. Well, that rule change that started a year and a half ago. It means that sellers are no longer required to pay the buyer's agent. Instead, the fee is now negotiable between buyers and their agent. The other change is that property listings no longer display the buyer agent's commission offer. But here's what's interesting in practice, and what really ends up happening in the end, in most cases, is that the seller still pays the full commission and compensates both agents that full 6% sometimes it's 5% instead of six buyers and buyer agents, they still operate under the seller pays. And that's largely because that has just been the norm. It's what's seemingly always been done. It's what buyers are used to. And the reason that that often persists. Is because the seller is the party in the transaction that has that thick equity in the property, deep equity, and buyers are the ones often just trying to scrape together whatever they can for a down payment and closing costs. Buyers are not going to be able to come up with another 15k for an agent commission when they're buying a 500k property, that's 3% especially today, this is true because American homeowners the seller then still have record equity positions of about 300k an all time high. Nearly half of mortgaged homes are considered equity rich. What does equity rich mean? It means that the loan balance is less than half of the home's value, yeah, the seller has the means to pay the full commission. So the point is, in practice, the seller, yeah, still pays that full five to 6% commission in the overwhelming majority of cases, and the buyer pays nothing. And if that does change, it's going to take a long time. You know, a lot of these evanescent real estate stories that people think are going to have some seismic impact. It rarely does, like this erstwhile NAR ruling or the 50 year mortgage proposal or banning big institutions for buying more single family rentals. You know, this stuff is like one little baseball sized asteroid striking an entire planet. I mean, it's like a barely discernible impact. Real estate is anchored in one place like Jabba the Hut. It is solid. These stories are interesting, but they're not impactful.   Keith Weinhold  6:52   Instead, I've mentioned it before. What are three things you control in real estate that really matter. And these are evergreen things. First, it's, how many dollars are you leveraging? That's where your wealth is going to come from. In fact, we're going to discuss that today with mortgage loan types. Second, what's the efficiency of operations on your existing properties? And thirdly, what is the quality of your relationships? And actually, we're addressing the third one today too, talking to a lender that you could make part of your team. You can control these three things. They're unyielding, they're evergreen, they're long term, and they all have gratitas and impact those three things, leverage operations and relationships. Now my agent drops me off and picks me up from my hotel here at the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs. This was also the event hotel for the goals retreat. I just extended my stay to hang out in the area. Look at real estate, do some climbing on Pikes Peak. Pro tip for you on hotel room rates, talk to a human being before I booked my stay, I called the front desk and asked them if they could extend the attractive event room rate to more nights on my extended stay. And they agreed. You might have heard of the Broadmoor. It is well known. It's been here for more than 100 years, and it is such a fine place to stay. Let me tell you about this special piece of real estate. In fact, I've thought it through, and I will now hereby proclaim that it is the finest us hotel experience that I've ever had in my life. I say us because I stayed at an amazing place in Dubai. But what makes the Broadmoor stand alone? It's the details and the service. A lot of hotels are nice, but this is on a different level. And I don't say this to brag, and this is because you probably can afford to stay here, yeah, like I have. You might have paid more elsewhere in your life for a lesser hotel, although I am here in the low seasons. Okay, now, sure, you've got views of the Rockies and a man made lake and waterfall and even a beautiful chandelier in my hotel room. The thing that sets it apart, though, is you have this service that feels old world and not corporate. That's what makes the difference. The Broadmoor is horse themed, since horses are a symbol of the American West. There are about 800 rooms here. It's kind of like a self contained adult Disneyland championship golf courses, a world class spa, even an outdoor lap swimming pool like that has lanes that I swam in one morning for. Fine dining, casual dining, access to hiking, fly fishing, even falconry, zip lines, tennis, pickleball pools. Take the cog railway to the Pikes Peak, Summit. Okay. Now, other nice hotels have attractions that are sort of like that, but when I rave about the service, it's the little things they are knocking on my door before 10am to come in and clean the room. And you know how so commonly, when you first check into your hotel room and you look in the closet, there are not enough clothing hangers, and they're all like stupidly mismatched. These all match. They're all nice wood, and there are plenty of them. So I'm talking about these details. I'm telling you. I had dinner at one of the broadmoor's restaurants the other night. I just happened to take a close look at the tag on the napkin. Sure enough, it is made in Italy. I mean, jeez, no detail is overlooked at this stellar place. In fact, here's what I'll do. You know, I'll just completely stop my Colorado Springs home search right now. Instead, I'm going to stop down by the Broadmoor front desk, tell him to give me some moving boxes, because I'm moving into the Broadmoor and I'll be here for the next decade. Start forwarding my mail here and everything. And hey, at least I was courteous enough to give them notice. I can't stay here too long, or my standards will be rising faster than my net worth. Yeah, yeah. Can't go to sleep with a mint on your pillow every night, I suppose.    Keith Weinhold  11:38   Now, the reason I came here now is to attend that aforementioned goals retreat, and let me take all the time and all the resources that I put into being here and distill them into just a few of the most salient takeaways for you. Goals should be smart, strategic, measurable, actionable, relevant and time based, they must be written down. Now, how would you describe yourself to somebody else that didn't know who you were? Write that down next. What do you think your reputation is? How would others describe you? Write that down now that you can see how you describe yourself and how others describe you, you can see that there's a gap there. That gap is what you need to work on. I learned that goal should be written in the present tense, not the future tense. I did not know that before. For example, say it is January 1, 2035, and I own $5 million in rental property. That's an example of how you would do that. So take future events and write them in the present tense. Other questions at the goals retreat that got really introspective are, what are you really going to do with your life? And write down that answer. Sheesh, that is tough. And if you think that's a hard question for you to ask of yourself, the next one is even harder. It's simply why? Why is that where you're going with your life? And then write that down? I mean, would you answer questions like this for yourself? And you really think about it, that can occupy a new segment of your entire headspace. It is a big cognitive load, and a last one to leave you with is to dream not just big, but gigantic. Get it out there, write down a dream that interests you, but it's so grandiose that you're actually embarrassed to tell someone about this stretch dream, for example, for me, it's the first person to walk on another planet. No human has ever done that, and this would most likely happen on Mars. See, this is so grand that is sort of embarrassing for me to even share that with you. It almost makes you sound Loony, like I would have to learn so many new skills to travel to and walk on Mars. But you should write down a bunch of other goals too. You're sort of brainstorming on goals, attainable goals. Recall that is the A in the SMART goals acronym, you want to write down a bunch of attainable ones, not just that stretch one. So for attainable ones, one of them is for me to become the highest man on earth. To give you an example. And I attempted that goal two years ago, and I failed. I told you about that at that time. But see now, compared to my embarrassing stretch goal of walking on Mars, the highest man on earth feels attainable, I know what it takes to achieve it, and it's worth doing, ah, but it's a grind to get there, yet it would be worth it. Those are some quick take. Ways from the real estate guys goals retreat while on stage the event host Robert helms he took a minute respite from the goals material, and he recognized the fact that, as he calls it, the four OG real estate podcasters are all in the same room. One of them is helms himself, and now I feel like the other three are all older and doing it longer than me. I was one of the four that he mentioned. But you know, there is only one podcast that was mentioned from stage, and that is that Robert helms told the audience that they should be listening to the get rich education podcast. That was a nice thing to say, and he is always a gracious giver.   Keith Weinhold  15:45   Next, we're talking about four major loan types, conventional DSCR, fix and flip and then bridge loans. When we discuss the first two parts of it could sound repetitive, but you'll see why we do this, because then you'll be able to compare it to nichey loan types that we discuss, for example, the speed of a bridge loan, where you can get funded in just one week, compared to a slower conventional loan. The mortgage landscape changes. I still remember how in 2012 we had still somewhat freshly emerged from the global financial crisis, and back then, you could only get four conventional loans, four rental properties, not 10 like you can today, 20 married. So get your loans while you can, you probably won't always be able to get 10 loans. We'll start with loan types that are more for beginners, and then we'll get to advanced material. Let's welcome back one of our favorite recurring guests.   Keith Weinhold  16:54   You can make millions more throughout your life by understanding mortgage loans. This is key, and today it's the return of the woman that's created more financial freedom through real estate than any other lender in the entire nation, because she's the president of ridge lender group. Hey, it's time for a big welcome back to the incomparable, yet somehow still so approachable Chaley Ridge   Caeli Ridge  17:16   my Keith, thank you for having me. I love being here. I love what you're doing. It's my pleasure, sir.   Keith Weinhold  17:23   And our followers, our listeners, have been approaching you since 2015 you're one of the longest running guests, truly one of the OGS around here at GRE and now Caeli, before we discuss loan types. You know, we don't really talk politics on this show rather policies, and we're in the midst of a presidential administration that often, in the name of the word affordability, is trying to supremely shake things up in the housing market. Help us dissect what matters and what won't.   Caeli Ridge  17:58   I have found that at least as it relates to current administration, whoever that might be, I wait for the buzzwords or the taglines to become the actual policy. Like you said, That's a good point in this case. You know, you've got things floating around, like the 50 year mortgage cutting off the hedge fund guys and that kind of thing. Whether or not, those things come to fruition. I'm happy to give my opinion on them. I do not think that it's going to move the needle much for the people that you and I serve with regard to I mean, just taking them one at a time, I don't think that the 50 year is going to come to fruition. Just first and foremost, if it did do, I think it would be a good idea for a homeowner, probably not, but for an investor, maybe if there's some way that we can keep our payment lower, given the maturity date of a mortgage for an investment property is usually about five years. I mean, I know that this is a 30 year fixed mortgage, but statistically speaking, the average shelf life of a non owner occupied mortgage is about five years. So getting a 50 year amortization, if that were going to reduce the payment, I don't think is a bad thing for an investor, however, and this may get a little bit technical for the listeners, so I apologize in advance if we were to go to a 50 Year am the adjustments, something called, and you and I have talked about this before, something called an llpa, that stands for loan level price adjustment, I think would be such that it could end up defeating the purpose of having the longer term amortization, because I think the interest rates would be higher and I think they may offset so that was a long way to say. One, I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it's actually going to get to its final resting place. And two, would it be a good idea for investors, yeah, I think it would be worth considering if it kept the payment lower. Okay, that's that as the other piece to cutting off the hedge funds, the big, you know, BlackRock, some of the big players, and giving them access to the residential housing and first right of infusion or etc, because they've got such deep pockets. You. It's such a small amount to what our individual investors are going to have access to that I don't think that that moves the needle either. So I don't know if I'm answering the question, except to say anything that they're going to tout, I would wait for it to actually become written in stone and pass by the rest of the powers that be before I would get excited about or concerned about any of it.   Keith Weinhold  20:21   This is pretty parallel with what I've been telling our listeners. All these things seem to make splashy news, but I haven't seen anything that's going to make a deep impact yet, whether it's the 50 year mortgage, which probably won't even come to fruition, or if it's doing these mortgage bond buy downs in order to bring more liquidity into the market and bring rates down, or if it sees any of these other things being discussed with these institutional investors, since they already own such a smaller proportion of the housing market than a lot of people think, we'll discuss seasoned real estate investors and their loans shortly, but first for newer real estate investors, you Know, chili, I kind of think of four or more loan types that a beginner should be familiar with. I think of conventional loans, dscrs, fix and flips and then bridge loans, the first one with conventional loans. What are the basics that someone should know?   Caeli Ridge  21:17   So first of all, you should know that there are 10 of these. We call them the golden tickets. I'm pretty sure I coined this, okay, 100 years ago, the golden ticket. We call the conventional aka Fannie Freddie, aka agency. They go by different names, but they all mean the same thing. We call them the golden tickets because it's the highest leverage and typically at the lowest interest rate you can find. Now I do have a hook in our conversation today about that. I'll get we'll get to it. There are 10 of these per qualified individual. So one of the first things that I would tell somebody is, is that if they are a partnership or a husband and wife team, you want to make sure to keep the debt obligation separate, because if you want to maximize these golden tickets, let's just say it's a husband and wife team. You each have, per qualification access to 10, and that includes a primary residence. In fact, let me just take a quick second and define what counts in the 10, because some people get this wrong. So the 10 golden tickets are counted by any residential property, single family, up to four Plex that has a loan on it, where the loan is in the individual name or personally guaranteed by the individual. That's where people get tied up. So if they went out and got a kind of more of a commercial type loan, that was in an LLC name, for example, but they signed a personal guarantee, per Fannie Freddie guidelines, that particular mortgage is going to count against the 10. So those would be some of the first pieces of news or detail I would give them about conventional    Keith Weinhold  22:40   for married couples, don't take ownership in both the husband and wife's name, either the husband or the wife. That way, you can get to 20 rather than 10. And yes, you do have to be mindful that your primary residence does count in that 10 or 20, whatever it might be. Anything else quickly with conventional loans, LTVs so on,    Caeli Ridge  23:01   yeah, LTV can go to 85% loan to value. So you get a little bit extra than you're going to get in some of the other loan product types. It will have PMI, private mortgage insurance, anything over 80% LTV will always have PMI on a more conforming, conventional basis. So keep that in mind. But the factor is pretty low. I would encourage people that are looking to stretch the almighty dollar. Do the math. Look at the 85 with PMI against, say, an 80% and see what are you giving up versus what you're getting. And then qualification stuff, you guys, my dumb joke, it's Keith's favorite. I'm sure vials of blood and DNA samples are sort of required for the Fannie Freddie loans. So just be prepared to supply or submit us the tax returns and pay stubs and bank statements and and all that stuff,   Keith Weinhold  23:44   you'll feel like you're getting fingerprinted almost for a conventional loan qualification. And the second one that I brought up DSCR loans, that's short for debt service coverage ratio. And these mortgages are pretty standard for rental properties. They're underwritten based on a property's income potential. So you know, the way I think of dscrs Chaley from the lender's perspective, is that sustainable cash flow is what matters. The rent has got to support the property's monthly mortgage payments. So we talked to us more about dscrs.    Caeli Ridge  24:15   Yeah, I love this product, and this is for somebody that either can't fit into the conventional Fannie Freddie box, or maybe they've exhausted their golden tickets and they're graduating and moving on. This is a great option that will reduce the amount of vials of blood and DNA samples that you're going to have to submit. It still provides for a 30 year fixed mortgage. The leverage is roughly the same, 80% in most cases, on a purchase. And to your point, the gross income divided by the principal, interest, taxes, insurance and Hoa, if it's applicable, is the simple formula, the easy method I'll give people, just to kind of solidify that math, is that if the gross rents were $1,000 a month, and if the PI TI was $1,000 a month, when you divide that, your debt service is 1.0 Now you can go as low, believe it or not, as low as a point seven, five, DSCR, they have those available be ready for the interest rate to get a little hair on it. Okay, it's going to be higher than what the 1.0 and above is going to be. But you can go as low as point seven, five, those are going to be for the investors that have found a property, maybe in distress, and they cannot show the current market value rent, perhaps, and it's on the low end. So you can still get that done at point seven, five, just be ready for a higher interest rate.   Keith Weinhold  25:30   So the DSCR loan an alternative for you, which might be especially useful, like Chaley touched on, if you've already exhausted your 10 golden ticket. Fannie Freddie loans, a DSCR of 1.2 for example, means that your rent income needs to exceed your principal, interest, taxes and insurance payment by 20% or more. That's what we're talking about here. And then Chile, those were more of loans for the buy and hold type of investor. Tell us about fix and flip loans.    Caeli Ridge  26:03   Yeah. So these are shorter term loan that will allow you to include not just the purchase of the property, but also some renovation or rehab money if you need that. And we're going to be looking at an ARV after repair value. So you've got a purchase price, you've got your renovation or scope of work budget. And then we're looking for an ARV with the ARV to be somewhere around 75% so what that means, if you've not heard of this before, you're going to take, let's say, $100,000 value. And if we want the ARV to be at 75% we're going to lend 75,000 is kind of the mix there. Those are quicker loans. You're going to be paying much higher rates on those. You know, between nine and 13% depending on the deal. The points are also going to be a little bit higher, but a great option for that quick turn and burn where you know your deal has enough skin in it and you can recapture all your capital and make a good tidy profit on it.   Keith Weinhold  26:53   We're talking about basically fixer upper loans here with Chaley Ridge, the president of ridge lending group, yes, these are jalopies that rarely qualify for traditional bank financing. And oftentimes, when I think about these fix and flip loans, I'm thinking that often there is interest only flexibility with regard to those higher interest rates that you need to pay. And I think of it as, you know, a shorter term loan that you've got during your renovation period, oftentimes 12 to 18 months. Does that sound about right?   Caeli Ridge  27:24   Yeah, 6,18, even 24 months. And to your point, yes, all of these are going to be interest only. And one of the cool things is about these loans is, is that, if there's enough room in the deal, right, based on what you need to borrow and what we think the ARV is expected to be, you don't even actually have to be making those interest payments. You can build it into the final payout when we go to refinance you out of this short term loan, or you simply sell the property and pay off that loan. So for example, let's say that your interest only payment is $1,000 a month, okay? And the value of the property is going to be $200,000 and you only took 120 okay, we're going to be well within that 75% ARV. You can build in that $1,000 say, for 12 months, there's $12,000 and just add it to the outstanding balance that you started by owing, and not have to be making those payments on an ongoing basis. It's not rented, right? So it might be nice to be able to factor that in to the actual payoff when you go to refinance that if it's a fix and hold versus go to sell it on a fix and flip.   Keith Weinhold  28:31   Now, long term, we know that the big gains for real estate investors really come from that leveraged appreciation getting that loan. But sometimes there are situations where we might want to act as a cash buyer. And that brings up this fourth of four loan types that I brought up, the bridge loan, short term loans that can temporarily finance a property purchase while you're waiting for a longer term loan to come through. The bridge loan, so I think of it as a pretty speedy loan, if you sort of want to act like you're an all cash buyer.   Caeli Ridge  29:04   Yeah, I like this, and in many ways it's similar to a fix and flip interest only. Obviously the term is going to be shorter, six months, 12 months, up to 24 months, and based on largely relationship, the bridge loan for the purpose that you described, really comes into play for an investor that we know and we're comfortable with, we can fund those inside a week, for somebody that we've done several of these loans for. So for those that need that really quick turn, once you've established yourself as a seasoned, experienced investor in that space, those are pretty slick and easy to get through.   Keith Weinhold  29:39   Why would someone use a bridge loan, rather than a fix and flip loan.   Caeli Ridge  29:43   So if they're in a very competitive market, that might be another option, because those are going to be faster. The bridge loan is going to be faster where they need to say that they're an all cash buyer and they only need seven days to close, or whatever it is. It depends on the municipality in the state. But what if you're at the courthouse steps? And you need cash quickly. Sometimes it needs to be immediate. So that might not be applicable in this case, but if you put the bid in, and you win the bid, and you've got, you know, three days to perform, usually we can get those done. So it's circumstantial. Those would be two variables or two scenarios that that would apply to   Keith Weinhold  30:17   the bridge loan gives you the advantage of speed, but that speed can come at a cost.   Caeli Ridge  30:22   Oh yeah, yeah, you're going to be paying probably three points, maybe four points, and it's short term interest, 13, 14%   Keith Weinhold  30:30   so with these four loan types that we've discussed, conventional DSCR, fix and flip and bridge loans, you can kind of see that there is a loan for most every investment scenario, and there's no reason to rely on only one type, a flipper. Might start with a short term fix and flip loan or a bridge loan and then later refinance to a DSCR or a conventional loan. So consider mixing and matching based on your needs. You're listening to get rich education. We're talking with Ridge leninger, President Taylor Ridge, more when we come back, including steps for more advanced investors, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold   Keith Weinhold  31:06   mid south homebuyers with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone, headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with a better business bureau and 4000 houses renovated. There is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com    Keith Weinhold  32:08   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds. Don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest, start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre or GRE, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly again. 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  33:19   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, start your pre qual and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Blair Singer  33:53   this is Rich Dad, sales advisor, Blair singer. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold. And above all, don't quit your Daydream.    Keith Weinhold  34:09   Welcome back to get rich education chili when we go beyond this beginner stage that we've been discussing, how about for an investor just trying to scale to 10 doors worth of one to four unit properties. Now, are there any strategies there or more of a loan order that you would recommend in getting up to your first 10 you know   Caeli Ridge  34:29   I think the strategy starts with calling your lender, ideally Ridge lending group, and having that deep strategy call that, that discovery call, so that we can really understand and plant some seeds that say, Okay, Mr. Jones, these are your qualifications today. This is where you want to be in a year or 10 years. These are the steps that are going to be important that we are mindful of and we take to accomplish and reach those milestones. It's really important to have that baseline understanding of what is your debt to income ratio on day one, what are your assets? Sets. What is your credit? Where do you want to be in a year or 10 years? Right? Do you want 10 properties in a year's time? It's going to be a very different conversation than if you're going to slow roll this and want to establish 10 purchases or 10 investment properties over 10 years. So identifying those details is going to be part one, and then next, in terms of order, I would say, largely the higher price point properties, typically, I would say, put those in one through six. And the reason that I'm saying that is is that the underwriting guidelines under conventional financing, they will change based on how many finance properties you have. So of all of the inner working guidelines and things that go into securing a conventional mortgage loan, the three top most heavily weighted are going to be debt to income ratio, credit score and assets. Okay? And within each one of those, the marker or the qualification guideline changes as you evolve and acquire more property. So the higher up the ring you go, or the rung that you go to 10, the more restrictive the guidelines are going to be. So I would typically say, get the higher price point properties go into maybe one to four, one to six, if that's part of your strategy and your diversification of portfolio ownership. Then after you've established having two or three or four properties and that higher price point it as it gets harder to qualify, potentially, if your debt to income ratio is a little bit tight, you've got the smaller loan sizes that might be less impactful in debt to income ratio. All of this is very subjective to the individual's qualifications and needs, of course, but that might be one rule of thumb that I would take   Keith Weinhold  36:39   gosh, this This is absolute gold in helping you structure the architecture of a growing income property portfolio. And we're coming up on this Super Bowl, and whatever mortgage lender advertises for the Super Bowl or has some big, splashy campaign nationally, you know they are not the ones that are going to have conversations like this for you, they might be fine for buying a primary residence, but this is why you want to have a long term strategy and work with a lender that's aligned with you on exactly that sort of thing. And Chaley, is there a specific way in which one can avoid hitting the Fannie Freddie loan ceilings too early if you haven't already touched on it.    Caeli Ridge  37:22   Yeah, very good question. You know, I think that this is going to come down to a debt to income ratio conversation. It's easy enough to ensure that we contain assets and credit. Those are easier conversations. The debt to income ratio is the piece that's more complicated and can get away from an investor without them even knowing it. You don't know what you don't know, right? So I would say that debt to income ratio and making sure that your lender again, hopefully Ridge lending, because we know this like we know our own faces, making sure they know how to structure and provide feedback and consult on that schedule E, part of the beauty of real estate investing is the tax deductions. Right? Many people get into real estate investing, not for the cash flow, not even for the appreciation, but for that tax strategy, because they're high wage earners, or whatever it may be, and they're sick of paying x in taxes. So the debt to income ratio is key in scaling and making sure you can continue to qualify for those loans. The conversations that we have with our clients really go deep about where we can maximize our deductions to ensure that we get the tax benefit without precluding our qualification on a conventional underwriting basis in the DTI category.   Keith Weinhold  38:35   Now, during my growth as an investor, when I got above 10 doors, one gets above 20 doors. When one gets to 216 doors, I began where I needed to qualify more on a DSCR basis, where the lender is looking at the properties qualification, more so than me. So are there any other thoughts with regard to how one can set themselves up for success in really going big and well beyond 10 doors   Caeli Ridge  39:03   absolutely so once we've exhausted the Fannie Freddie, and I think one of the real value adds about Ridge is that we are not a one size fits all, and we are extremely holistic versus transactional. So having that first conversation and understanding what those goals are, so that we can pivot as we need to maximize the golden tickets, whether that be 10 to 20, right? If you're in a marriage or a partnership or whatever, and then setting up for the DSCR loans when the time comes, and taking advantage of those, there is no limit to how many DSCR loans we can get for one individual. We have yet to file an individual that we've had to say no, and we've done quite a few of the high, high acquisition investors, so I don't expect that to be an issue, but yeah, I think it's about planning, planting those seeds, creating roadmaps together and have those smart discovery conversations.   Keith Weinhold  39:50   Now, as you grow, one way you might diversify is to have perhaps at least a part of your portfolio in short term rentals. So what I. Comes to getting loans for sort of Airbnb or VRBO type properties. What does one look for there? How much does the landscape change versus the longer term rentals that we've mostly been talking about here?    Caeli Ridge  40:10   Yeah, I think that the differences are going to be about purchase versus refinance. If we're just talking about purchases, let's kind of try to keep it in one lane. If we're talking about purchasing a short term rental, you may be limited on leverage. You might lose a little bit of leverage, 5% let's say you could get to 75% and maybe on a short term they're going to back it off to 70% LTV, so there may be reduction in that loan to value. And the way in which we're going to quantify the income is absolutely important to share with your listeners on a purchase transaction, we have access to things like an appraisal. An appraisal is going to give us some median rental income, whether it be long term or short term, that we will use to offset a new mortgage payment if that's needed for the individual's debt to income ratio qualification. Now, if they don't need the rental income to qualify, then it's a non issue. But if they do, like most of us, need that rental income to absorb this new mortgage payment that we are securing for them, how that's going to quantify is important. So if it's not in a short term rental area, let's just say it's kind of off the beaten path, and there may not be enough data points to support the income that you need. It's important to know that up front versus way down the rabbit hole, when you paid for appraisals and you're all the way through the transaction and earnest money might be off the table if you had to cancel that kind of thing. So really important to understand the numbers in advance, I would say, when we talk about short term rentals and how the income is going to be quantified from an underwriting perspective,   Keith Weinhold  41:43   why does a borrower often need to make a higher down payment on a short term rental than they do a long term rental?   Caeli Ridge  41:49    You know, I think that in secondary markets, as we talk about mortgage backed securities and things like that, it's looked at as a higher risk. A short term rental is going to be a higher risk than just the stable long term, long burn tenant is going to be there and they've got their lease for a year, two years or whatever, at a time, the short term rental is more volatile and it's seasonal. It can be I mean, there's all those different factors, so higher risk means more skin in the game for the investor.   Keith Weinhold  42:13   That makes a lot of sense. Does that higher risk also translate into a higher mortgage rate for short term rentals than long term rentals?   Caeli Ridge  42:18    Fannie Freddie versus DSCR The answer is no. On the Fannie Freddie side, the interest rate's not going to change on a DSCR loan. Yes, it can be slightly higher, usually about about a quarter of a percentage point on a short term versus a long term.   Keith Weinhold  42:33   Now, are there any particular markets that lenders want to avoid with short term rental loans?   Caeli Ridge  42:39   No, as long as the property is habitable, and all the other metrics fit Qualifications and Credit and assets and all that stuff. No, there isn't a market that we're going to have any issues with now. We do get the notifications for natural disaster areas, and as that relates to the appraisal and things like that, if it's in a natural disaster area or zone, we may have to hold funding until after the disaster is over, and then we can go and take more pictures and make sure it's still standing and there's no major issues. But otherwise, aside from that, as long as it's habitable, no, there is no market restriction.   Keith Weinhold  43:12   Yes, with that variability of income for short term rentals, you can understand how a lender would be more careful in making a loan, and would want you, the borrower, to put more skin in the game for a short term rental. Well, Caeli, overall, what should an investor do in the next 24 hours to make themselves more lendable before contacting someone like you?   Caeli Ridge  43:36   I would say the answer is sticky, but call rich lending group. That's how you're going to make yourself more lendable. And the reason that I can say that is is that everybody's qualifications and needs and goals are inherently different. So calling someone that understands this landscape and can navigate the battleship in the creek like I like to say, that's the visual aid for those of you that need the visual is the first key. And with that conversation, we're going to be able to identify for you specifically what you would need to do to become more lendable. And it may be nothing   Keith Weinhold  44:07   well over there, Chaley, you're growing. You do loans in almost all 50 states. The GRE podcast has more than 5.8 million listener downloads, and you have helped countless GRE listeners acquire smart investor loans for fully a decade now. Just amazing. So talk to us about all of the loan types that you offer investors there at ridge.   Caeli Ridge  44:30   My gosh. Okay, so I think one of the real value adds for us is that we have such a diverse menu of loan products. We touched on a few of them already. So we've got the conventional Fannie Mae Freddie, Mac stuff. We've got our DSCR loans. We have bank statement loans, asset depletion loans. I can touch on those if you want. Keith, we have our short term bridge fix and flip. We have our All In One my favorite, first lien, HELOC we have second lien HELOCs. We have commercial loan products, and commercial can apply to residential and commercial property. A cross collateralization, commercial for residential properties. That just means, if you're putting 10 single families into one blanket loan, that would be cross collateralization, or if you're buying a storage unit that's straight commercial, and probably even more than that, ground up construction, there's really not a limit to the loan products that we offer, specifically for investors. The only thing we don't have, I would say in our arsenal is bare land loans. Those are hard to come by   Keith Weinhold  45:24   It sounds like you recommend a call in order to get some of that back and forth, to learn how you can best help that investor. But tell us about all the ways that someone   Caeli Ridge  45:32   can get a hold of you. Yes, there's a few ways. Of course, our website, ridgeline group.com, you can call us toll free at 855-747434385, 747-434-3855, 74, Ridge. Or feel free to email us info at Ridge lending group.com   Keith Weinhold  45:49   and you might get lucky. Hey, spin the wheel. Chaele does get on the phone and talk to individual investors herself too. So Chaley, it's been valuable as always to cover all these different loan types for beginners, and then what one does when they advance beyond that. It's been great having you back on the show.    Caeli Ridge  46:09   Thank you, Keith. I appreciate you.   Keith Weinhold  46:16   Oh yeah, a lot to learn from Chaley today. You've got mortgage rates three quarters to 1% lower than they were a year ago. At this time, in fact, last month, they ticked below 6% for the first time in years, and their lowest level in over three years. But when you introduce geopolitical uncertainty, well, that tends to make rates tick up again. Now, just what does happen when you have a lower overall rate trend like we have? Well, in this cycle, it's already spurred an increase in housing sales volume. It surged to 4.3 5 million in the latest reporting month, and that is the hottest annualized pace in nearly three years. Some of the same people who said, wait until rates fall, they're about to realize that prices didn't wait. Demand comes back fast. Inventory doesn't if mortgage rates take another leg lower, we could see quite a refinance wave in balanced markets or in supply constrained markets, bidding wars could follow. Now I've shared with you before that I totally do not predict interest rates. I don't know if anyone should. It is a great way to be fantastically wrong and supremely waste a lot of people's time. Instead, I think it's more efficacious for you to be able to interpret the signs that can trigger a further rate drop. Those signs are a weak jobs report that tends to bring lower rates because the labor market needs the help. So does softening wage growth, GDP below expectations, inflation continuing to cool, or a pickup in US Treasury demand. These are all signs that can lead to even lower rates. In fact, right now, with already lower rates and higher wages, real estate is more affordable than it's been in about three years, but overall, longer term, yeah, income properties still feel somewhat less affordable. It's less affordable than it was in pre pandemic times. That's for real for US investors, though, affordability is less about the price of the property, it's about whether the property pays for itself and grows your net worth while inflation does the heavy lifting for you, that's why it still works for us as investors. Higher prices don't kill investors inaction during inflation does you're not so much buying a say, 350k property. You're controlling it with 70k while your tenant and inflation do the rest. We don't rely on hope or appreciation. We start with inflation, tax benefits and debt pay down, and then appreciation typically happens too. A lot of times, the question for us goes beyond whether or not a property is affordable. The question is whether owning an investment property is better than inflation compounding against us, which is an investor mindset for this era, Ridge landing gear. President Chaley Ridge is a regular guest here because the mortgage space is so dynamic and things change a lot. For that reason, we expect to have her with us every few months this year, I'll see you next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  50:01   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  50:30   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, getricheducation.com   

Your top sales reps may look loyal, productive, and locked in—but many of them are quietly considering leaving. In this episode, Ray Higdon breaks down the real reasons why high-performing sales reps walk away from organizations they helped build. Contrary to popular belief, retention is not about compensation plans or luck. It is about leadership, culture, and trust. You will learn the five most common leadership mistakes that push top producers away, including lack of recognition, control-driven leadership, taking credit for others' success, and failing to keep the environment fresh and inspiring. This episode is essential listening for sales leaders, network marketing leaders, managers, and entrepreneurs who want to improve sales team retention, protect their top performers, and build a culture people do not want to leave.   —  

Three friends graduated high school together. Same opportunities, same starting point. Fifteen years later, one makes $85,000 working overtime (exhausted), one makes $115,000 through specialization (better income, still trapped by time), and one makes $105,000 total with $30,000 coming from assets that earn while she sleeps.The difference isn't intelligence or work ethic. It's leverage.Most Canadians are stuck trading time for money. Statistics Canada reports that over 30% of workers have taken on side gigs just to survive. We work more hours for the same money because we don't understand the three fundamental paths to earning more.Path One: Work more hours (1X leverage, hard ceiling). Path Two: Increase your skills through education and specialization (3X leverage, higher income but still time-dependent). Path Three: Buy assets that work for you (infinite leverage, no ceiling).This episode combines Naval Ravikant's principles on leverage with Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad Poor Dad framework—but for regular people, not just entrepreneurs. You don't need to own a business. You can start with $50.Learn how to calculate your "Freedom Number," open your first investment account, and begin building wealth through Canadian index funds, real estate, and digital assets. Discover why only 3% of Canadians achieve financial independence, and how you can join them.Golden Hour Challenge: Create your Personal Leverage Map and take your first concrete step toward Path Three income.Stop renting out your time. Start buying assets.Connect with Chris Cooper:Website - https://businessisgood.com/

Is your sales team struggling to perform even though you are doing everything "right" as a leader? In this episode, Ray Higdon explains why most sales teams underperform and why the problem is rarely sales skills or motivation. Instead, top sales leaders understand structure, environment, and leadership psychology, not just tactics. You will learn the five leadership behaviors that consistently increase sales team performance, engagement, and retention. Ray breaks down why recognition matters more than pressure, why slow success stories outperform fast wins, and how inclusive leadership creates long-term growth. This episode is essential for sales leaders, network marketing leaders, entrepreneurs, and managers who want to build productive teams without burnout, turnover, or constant pressure. ——

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If you have ever thought about quitting sales, this episode is for you. In this powerful and honest conversation, Ray Higdon tackles burnout head-on and challenges the way most people define it. Not all burnout is the same, and in many cases, what people call "burnout" is actually something else entirely. Ray breaks burnout into three common categories, helping you diagnose what is really happening beneath the surface and, more importantly, what to do about it. This episode is not about motivation hype. It is about clarity, awareness, and sustainable growth. ——

In today's conversation from the Vancouver Resource Investment Conference, Rich Dad Poor Dad author Robert Kiyosaki delivers a stark warning about the future of money, markets, and social stability. Dispelling rumors outright, Kiyosaki makes one thing clear: he has never sold his silver—calling it “the metal of the future,” more scarce than gold and even Bitcoin. Kiyosaki argues that gold and silver are flashing the same signal seen at historic monetary breaking points. “When gold and silver move together, that's the end of fiat money,” he warns, adding that “the risk of confiscation is real.” From currency debasement and AI-driven job destruction to debt-fueled wealth creation, Kiyosaki's message is clear: history is repeating and those who ignore it will pay the price. ✅ FREE RESOURCESDownload The Private Wealth Playbook — a data-backed guide to strategically acquiring gold and silver for maximum protection, privacy, and performance. Plus, get Daniela Cambone's Top 10 Lessons to safeguard your wealth (FREE)

One of the biggest risks people face when trying to understand the economy, investing, or personal finance isn't a lack of information. It's the illusion of being informed—while quietly limiting the sources that shape your thinking. We live in a world where information is everywhere. Podcasts, X threads, YouTube clips, newsletters, reels. But abundance doesn't equal diversity. In fact, the algorithms behind social media are designed to do the opposite: they show you more of what you already agree with. Over time, your worldview narrows—not because you chose it to, but because it was curated for you. I noticed this years ago when I started listening to alternative asset podcasts. At first, it felt refreshing—new ideas, new language, new opportunities outside the mainstream. But after a while, something became obvious. Many of these shows were operating inside an echo chamber. Different hosts. Same conclusions. Same narratives. Same villains. Same heroes. It was as if they were all listening to one another and simply regurgitating the same ideas, reinforcing them in a closed loop until they felt like truth. And to be fair—knowing many of these hosts personally—that's often the business model. Audience reinforcement is rewarded. Dissent is not. Ever since then, I've made a conscious effort to study people I don't naturally agree with. Not because I want to adopt their views—but because I want to stress-test my own. This matters more now than ever because social media accelerates groupthink at scale. When an idea gains traction online, disagreement quickly becomes social friction. It's easier to conform, retweet, and nod along than to pause and ask, “What if this is wrong?” I once had a conversation with Robert Kiyosaki where he told me he actually gets worried when everyone in the room agrees about the economy. When viewpoints converge too neatly, it's usually a sign that critical thinking has been replaced by consensus comfort—and that's exactly where blindsides are born. If your goal is to get closer to the truth, you must seek out opinions that challenge your own. That includes people you disagree with—especially people you disagree with. Truth doesn't emerge from unanimity. It emerges from tension. And that applies to me as well. Daon't let me—or anyone else—be your sole source of information. No matter how much you trust someone, outsourcing your thinking is always a risk. I can tell you from personal experience that in economics and personal finance, narrow perspectives lead to surprises you only recognize in hindsight. Those are the moments people regret most—not because they lacked intelligence, but because they lacked perspective. Financial education is critical. But a real curriculum doesn't just confirm what you already believe. It exposes you to competing frameworks, conflicting data, and uncomfortable questions—and forces you to think for yourself. That's how you build conviction that actually holds up when the world changes. This week's episode of Wealth Formula Podcast examines this groupthink problem on a broader scale throughout society with an author who wrote a bestseller on our inherent appetite for misinformation. It's a fascinating conversation that will surely get you thinking about the way you view the world. Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by AI and may not be 100% accurate. If you notice any errors or corrections, please email us at phil@wealthformula.com.  You can imagine people who are conflict avoidant, probably not so likely to post online, as opposed to people who are conflict approaching who love a fight, right? If that’s, if those are the folks who are more likely to post, that’s gonna shape our information space in really, really important ways. Welcome everybody. This is Buck Joffrey with the Wealth Formula Podcast. Coming to you from Montecito, California today. Uh, wanna remind you before we begin, there is a website associated with this podcast called wealthformula.com. That’s where you go if you wanna get more involved with, uh, the show, with the community, uh, specifically, um, if you are interested. There is a sign up there for something called investor club, which if you aren’t a credit investor, you sign up basically, uh, you, uh, get onboarded and then you can see potential deal flow that’s not available to the public. And, uh, lots of things going on in there. Real estate, we’ve had stuff in the aircraft spaced, um, interesting stuff. You should check it out for sure. If you are, uh, enter credit investor. And again, that is wealthformula.com. Just click on investor Club. Now today, let’s talk a little bit of, you know, just let’s talk a little bit about one of the biggest risks that people face when trying to understand the economy of investing personal finance. It’s not lack of information, right? These days, there’s an enormous amount of information. It’s just the illusion of being informed while quietly limiting the sources that shape your thinking in the first place. So we live in this world. I live in this world too, where information is everywhere. You got podcasts, you got X, you got YouTube newsletters, reels, random emails. Abundance of information doesn’t really equal diversity. In fact, the algorithms behind social media are designed to do the opposite. They just show you more of what you already agree with, and that is a little bit of a problem because over time your worldview really starts to narrow. And not because you chose to narrow it necessarily, but because it was curated for you. You know, I noticed this myself, uh, several years ago when I started listening to podcasts like my own. Even before I started my podcast. And what happens is that you get, initially you get kind of interested ’cause the stuff resonates with you. You get some ideas, you get new language, new opportunities outside the mainstream. But after a while you start to realize, or I start to realize that, you know, these shows were sort of operating inside of an echo chamber. They’re saying the same thing, different house, same conclusions, same narratives, villain. Same heroes, you know, it was as, again, it was as if they were all listening to one another and, and simply regurgitating the same ideas and reinforcing them, uh, in a, in a closed loop. Um, and when you do that, it starts to feel like truth. And to be fair, knowing many of these hosts personally, that is kind of the business model. You know, audience reinforcement is rewarded, descent is not so ever since then. You know, I’ve actually made a conscious effort to study people. I don’t, uh, naturally agree with. I actually don’t listen to any other personal finance podcasts, uh, that are sort of in this alternative space because I already know kind of what our narratives are. I wanna know what others think. I wanna, uh, I, it’s not necessarily that I’m looking to adopt their views, but because I wanna kind of, you know, challenge my own and this matters more now than ever. Again, because of social media. How that accelerates group think at scale. You know, when an idea gains traction online, um, you know, disagreement quickly becomes social friction. Now I think the thing to do is, you know, always be questioning yourself and asking the question really, what if I’m wrong? What if this narrative is wrong? And it reminds me actually once, uh, you know, I’ve had a chance to spend a little time with Robert Kiyosaki. Period, uh, different, different times, and I still. Kind of consider him a mentor. And I remember being at a table with him, a bunch of people talking about, you know, where the, where the economy was, what’s going on. And he looked at me and he says, this is what gets me nervous. I said, what, what gets you nervous? And he says, everyone here, everyone here, even people who normally disagree with one another, are agreeing with each other. Uh, the point is that when some of these, you know, viewpoints converge too neatly. Uh, it’s usually a sign, uh, that, you know, that critical thinking has kind of been replaced, and that’s exactly where you start to get blindside and where, you know, there’s a danger there that there’s something that no one’s, no one else has really even mentioning anymore. So if your goal is to get closer to the truth, you actually have to seek out opinions that challenge your own, and that includes. People you disagree with, especially people you disagree with. Because you know, truth doesn’t really emerge from unanimous thought. It emerges from sort of that tension and challenging, and that applies to me as well. You know, if I’m the only personal finance podcast you listen to, you probably shouldn’t be because I have, you know, made my own conclusions based on what I’m thinking and what I’m listening to. I try to get people. Um, you know, from different spaces talking about stuff, but the reality is that, you know, everyone’s biased. I’m biased too. So, um, you know, I can tell you from personal experience, uh, that in economics and in personal finance, the problem is that when you have these narrow perspectives, um, they often lead to. To prizes. Uh, you can’t, you know, they only recognize in hindsight, and those, uh, those are the moments that most people, I think, regret more than anything. Not because they lacked intelligence necessarily, but they lacked perspective, right? Listen, financial education is critical and we, we know that that’s the point of doing the show in the first place, but, you know, any real curriculum is, isn’t there, just to confirm what you already believe. I, I, if you, it should expose some competing frameworks. And, you know, different questions or different takes on things and, and that’s how you know, if you listen to those and you listen to those arguments, that’s how you can really build conviction that you can stand behind. And even if you’re wrong, you say, yeah, you know, I heard the other argument too. I didn’t buy it, but I guess I was wrong. Believe me, I’ve been wrong, uh, more than once myself. So the reason I bring that all up is because this week’s, uh, episode of Wealth Formula podcast really examines. Greater than just the idea of, you know, personal finance and macro economics and that type of thinking, but a greater problem, which is group think in general on a broader scale throughout society. And my, uh, my guest is a, a woman who wrote a best seller on this topic. It’s fascinating stuff. I think it’ll get you think. Make sure to listen in and we’ll have that interview right after these messages. Wealth Formula banking is an ingenious concept powered by whole life insurance, but instead of acting just as a safety net, the strategy supercharges your investments. First, you create a personal financial reservoir that grows at a compounding interest rate much higher than any bank savings account. As your money accumulates, you borrow from your own. Bank to invest in other cash flowing investments. Here’s the key. Even though you’ve borrowed money at a simple interest rate, your insurance company keeps paying you compound interest on that money even though you’ve borrowed it. At result, you make money in two places at the same time. That’s why your investments get supercharged. This isn’t a new technique. It’s a refined strategy used by some of the wealthiest families in history, and it uses century old rock solid insurance companies as its backbone. Turbocharge your investments. Visit Wealth formula banking.com. Again, that’s wealthformulabanking.com. Welcome back to the show everyone. Uh, today my guest on Wealth Formula podcast is Professor Dana Young, who’s a professor of communication and political science at the University of Delaware, where her research explores how media psychology and identity shape belief systems she’s the author of Wrong, how media politics and Identity drive our appetite for misinformation and examines why people clinging to false narratives, and how understanding identity can improve persuasion. Our work helps decode the emotional and cognitive forces behind how we process risk, truth, and decision making. Welcome, professor Young. Great. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for that intro. Someone has done their homework. I like that. Well, I try to, uh, well, let’s start with this. You know, one of the central arguments, uh, that you have is that people often believe things, not because they’re true, but because those beliefs serve as an identity function. Interesting concept, which I can kind of see in, uh, when you watch TV these days, can you, can you talk a little bit about that? Sure. And, and realize this is not happening at a conscious level. This isn’t something that we are thinking about. We’re not thinking, I wanna believe things that are untrue, but make me feel like I’m a part of my team. It doesn’t work that way. It is the, the truth, value of the things that we perceive is contingent on how those beliefs serve our team. Mm-hmm. So if there are things that our team believes. Those are the things that sort of historically, based on evolutionary psychology, those are the belief systems that would’ve made us probably really good members of our, of our tribe. Mm-hmm. That would’ve, um, if we had embraced those beliefs that would have. Give an indication to the shared members of our team that we are a good team member and therefore they should protect us. They should protect me, I will protect them. There’s a reciprocity there. So that belief sharing with our teammates is something that historically has served us well. And when it comes to survival, we really prioritize our social motivations above all else, because that is such a huge predictor of what allows us to survive and thrive. Is being a part of a community. And so, yeah. So the empirical validity of those claims is a little bit beside the point. The obvious, uh, the, the things that I think about there, I guess the, the sort of analogy there is like, you know, being a a, like I’m a big football fan, right? So I’ve been a big fan of the Minnesota Vikings for my entire life, although I’ve not lived there in from, you know, three quarters of my life. I grew up as a kid and that was my team. People come in, right? People go out. They’re people who, you know, were never there at the beginning, but I still root for them. Yeah. Yeah. And I still believe in them. And so, yeah, it, it reminds me of the sort of a, uh, you know, this tribal thing you’re talking about. The other place you see it, uh, is, is in politics. Uh, you know, when I, when I think about like, the way the parties have changed without getting political at all here. The, the, there’s some very, very significant changes that have happened in the ideologies, uh, or maybe not in the ideologies, but in the actuality of these parties and what they believe. They’ve changed so much in the last 30 or 40 years, yet the same people believed, uh, or identify as those party members. Is that kind of what you’re getting at? Yes, and, and because I’m a political scientist and political communication scholar, a lot of my interest in this area was born out of my concerns about our political, the political moment that we’re in, and how we really lack. A shared reality that’s necessary for democratic governance. Um, we, and we are seeing that literally there are dozens of examples every single day of different perceptions of reality across the left and the right. And so, so that was sort of why I tried to understand this, um, in the first place. But the. What you can glean from these theoretical dynamics, um, extend far beyond politics, right? To, as you were saying, and everything from economics to health, to the environment. Um, but because the shift that I think has been most impactful in this area regarding political identity is that in the United States, the. How the parties, what the parties are made up of, who the parties are made up of has changed dramatically over the last half century. And so rather than being these sort of loose coalitions of interest groups that would kind of come together and perhaps share a platform on specific policies, the way that the parties have shifted, especially sort of after the Civil Rights Movement made it that. Individuals began to identify with political parties based on like fundamental characteristics of who they are. Things like race, religion, geography, and, and fundamental aspects of culture. And so you have two political parties that actually look very different from one another in their racial and ethnic and religious and geographic sort of composition that is not good for democracy. Because we actually do not want our political parties to map onto such primal aspects of identity. ’cause it creates sectarianism and opens the door for dehumanization and violence, all kinds of bad stuff. But it also really tends to fuel some of these identity-based processes that we’re talking about because when you look around and everyone on your, in your political party. Lives like you do. They look like you do they worship like you do? They have the same hobbies as you. They drive the same kind of car. You know, those kinds of things. Like there’s a lot of that overlap that really makes your political identity take on a life of its own, and that life is increasingly. Um, unrelated to policy and more about kind of culture and aesthetics. So all of these caricatures that we think about of the left and the right, the, there’s. Stereotypes for a reason. They exist for a reason and they are so exaggerated through as a result of this political party shift over time. And, um, uh, as I talk about in the book, these differences are also exploited by our media environment. It’s really good for targeting and target marketing to have these kinds of divisions, uh, not great for democracy. Um, but they, these identities become further exacerbated. The more media we consume that tends to play into these identities. Yeah. It, it’s interesting to me, I think sometimes when you, when you think about what people believe mm-hmm. And then, you know, and then. Identifying those beliefs with like a, a political party or something like that. It’s interesting to think of the actual identification of the party coming first. Yeah. And then the beliefs following. Based on the identification. So that’s almost like religion, right? Exactly. Exactly. Right. And that’s a lot of the, the metaphors that we’ve been drawing from in political science. A lot of political scientists have been writing about this, really drawing upon the sociology of religiosity and how it operates because it, it, you’ll notice there’s another similarity too, that people will. Have this large identity as like a Catholic, right? Like I was raised Catholic. It’s, it’s part of who I am. Now. Do I believe everything that they say at church? No, but my identity as a Catholic is still very big. I, I, I will let it drive certain things, but I’m gonna write off other things as like. Not as important as my overarching identity. In the same way that we will find people who have a Democrat or Republican identity, and they live like a Democrat. They live like a Republican. However, when it comes to their actual policy positions. They don’t necessarily agree with their party platform. And that actually is where I get a little more optimistic because even though these caricatures seem so distinct when you drill down to actual policy positions, Americans have a lot in common. Those divides are not as giant as we think they are. I’m curious in terms of understanding the United States versus other countries, um, we, we seem to have a certain polarity which. It’s relatively new. I would say that, you know, even compared to, um, being a kid in, in the eighties, um, feeling like, you know, there was these two parties, but they seemed to get along pretty well. Mm-hmm. And for the most part, they were both kind of near the center. Yeah. And, um, but there’s this, there’s a much bigger division now. Um. What, I guess what drives the, the changes and when you look at different countries, like if you can compare and contrast like Sure. Are there certain specific variables Yes. That about our culture that that makes us who we are. Yes. Yeah. So that first question, um, I, I think that what’s really important is that when you think about how our political parties used to operate, um, in the aftermath of the Civil War, the two parties. We’re kind of in agreement when it came to racial issues in a way that was not good for African Americans in this country. Once the great migration happened and you had blacks from, from former slave states moving north and west, there was real pressure on leaders in those cities to advance or civil rights. Platforms, civil rights legislation, and to advance the rights of African Americans. That really put pressure on the parties in such a way that then it was the Democratic Party who became the party of championing civil rights. Then there was a response from the Republican party that was framed in terms, right, in terms of. State’s rights. That really drove the sorting of different kinds of people into the parties. It’s also fascinating to look at how religiosity and religion. Play a role here because during this very moment under the Nixon administration, there were efforts to revoke the tax exempt status of certain Christian schools that were sort of defacto segregated schools that were in violation of the policy at the time, which was to integrate those, the school system well. Those Christian parents were very unhappy with this, you know, revoking their tax exempt status. And there was a man named Paul Wyrick who came in and said, you know what, this is a moment to really bring together these two issues regarding race and religion. And he mobilized and created a grassroots movement out of this effort to sort of like protect our schools. And that actually became the conservative group, the Heritage Foundation. So that, that bringing together sort of the, the project of evangelical Christianity with this sort of move in opposition to integration that has a long history in our country. To your second piece though, about why the United States is, is. Special. Um, one, we have our, our history of slavery is not fundamentally unique, right? There are many countries that also practice slavery. I think the role that slavery already p played in the founding of our nation was important to keep in mind in terms of how the, the issue of race played into these shifts across political parties. And two, probably the biggest thing of all is that we have a. Two party system in countries that are dealing with some of these same pressures related to race and ethnicity, immigration, right? Where you see some of this polarization happening on ideology and a lot of those places they have multi-party systems. Which play a real amazing role at buffering some of these dynamics. So it’s not black or white, yes or no left, left or right. Uh, so we are uniquely positioned to have a hell of a time with polarization. When I, um, uh, I, you already sort of referenced, um, media. Mm-hmm. Um, you know, like when you think about polarization or you think about like. Re um, sort of constantly, um, emphasizing the things that you already suggest that you believe, uh, social media in particular is, I mean, is just pounding away at that, right? Yeah. I mean, sure. I just think about like my own feed, the things that I Yeah. You know, respond to or the things that I, you know, show affirmative, uh, reactions to the next thing. You know, like on x, you know, on Twitter, which I’ve been in. You know, doing more of, that’s all I get. Right? Sure. And it’s interesting because the next thing you know, you feel like. Everybody agrees with you. Sure, sure. And you’re like, oh, this is, this is amazing. I’m so Right. Right. No one has, right. No one believes the opposite of me. Right. Yeah. And it feels amazing. What role is that playing? Uh, I guess in, in your view? Social media dynamics are, are really fascinating because let’s, let’s realize, talk for a second about why it is that a lot of the content that we’re exposed to on social media is so divisive and identity evoking. Um. The reason that that happens is because the algorithms really just want us to be more and more engaged, obviously, because the only way that they’re able to, to micro target us with ads, et cetera, is by making use of the data points, the breadcrumbs that we have left behind. The only time that we leave those data points that we leave those breadcrumbs is when we do things. So if we’re just lurkers, we are not serving them at all. If we’re just hanging out looking at stuff, if we are actively liking or doing an angry thing, or writing or sharing, that’s what they need. So the algorithm is going to prioritize the content that is sort of outrage inducing, especially because negative emotions are exceptionally sticky. And there’s been some amazing work by um, uh, Jay Van Beil and his team who studied the sort of virality of different kinds of content online. And they found that the kind of content that is especially suited to virality is content that is both moral. Emotional that makes claims about what ought to be and what ought not to be, but is also like really emotionally and effectively evocative. And the kinds of content that tends to check those boxes is the content that is identity activated. Us versus them. They are doing this awful thing to us. Our way of life is under threat. Um, they are the bad guys. We are the good guys. So that’s how that happens, right? So that’s the kind of content that tends to be privileged across these platforms. That’s a piece of the puzzle. Another piece of the puzzle is that the kinds of people who tend to produce the most content online. Are weird, uh, as someone who posts online, uh, I, I just offended myself, but that’s fine. Um, the people who post a lot online tend to be more ideologically extreme. They also tend to have certain kinds of personality traits that maybe aren’t great is some of my work is looking at the, the trait of conflict orientation. You can imagine people who are conflict avoidant. Probably not so likely to post online as opposed to people who are conflict approaching who love a fight, right? If that’s, if those are the folks who are more likely to post, that’s gonna shape our information space in really, really important ways. Well then you get responses that are much more aggressive too, right? Like sure. In either direction. Sure. Something that’s kind of lukewarm. No one really cares to respond to it. Right. That’s exactly right. And then, and then those, those particular posts are rewarded by the media companies themselves because they’re getting all sorts of attention rising the top and those influencers who getting paid for that. So yeah, I mean, that’s the thing that really, that’s where I, I, I get to the point sometimes with this work where I, I’ve, I do feel a bit demoralized because I don’t necessarily see. Where there are really empowered agents to who can work within the system, we have to try to dismantle the incentive structure. So you know, if there are entrepreneurs out there who can think about ways to incentivize different kinds of content, I applaud that kind of development there. There are some, of course, who, who do the sort of, um. Positivity posts, you know, posts for good and viral videos about people help helping other people, and there is some indication that those also, they’re people love those. Those do go viral, but they don’t have the immediacy of the outrage, I guess, that when you think about, you know. The implications of this is really just, you know, I guess polarization, maybe some misinformation. Even misinformation is difficult because Sure. You don’t even actually know what is real information anymore. You don’t have like, sure. You know, when I was a, again, going back to being a kid in the eighties, it’s like you had one set of. Set of facts, you know? That’s right. But now that’s, there’s lots of different sets of facts, and in reality it’s hard to know what’s real. You just, you know, you just, you, you believe something and the next thing you know, something comes out and it, boy, that wasn’t real at all. Um, yeah. And, and let’s just, I’ll pause you for a second because, you know, as someone who studies misinformation, I, I have been through quite a journey with how I’ve thought about digital technologies, right? Yeah. Whereas. When I first started in this field 20, 25 years ago, I really lamented the fact that there were these voices on high at the news organizations who got to gatekeeper. They were the ones who decided what was true and what was not. And because of the way that they produced the news, that tended to reinforce certain kinds of official narratives. You know, there were times when conspiracies were exposed later on, when we learned that Wow. They did not tell us the truth, right? So early on I thought, oh wow, digital technologies are gonna be revolutionary, citizen journalists and iPhones. Mm-hmm. And in 2011, we saw the Arab Spring and we watched all these, these, you know, dictatorships. Topple. And then we saw the real tide shift with misinformation, with and disinformation deliberate efforts to exploit those. The lack of gatekeepers to exploit the, the lack of professional, quote unquote truth tellers, and really just make hay of our information space. And now sometimes it’s amazing, right? Because sometimes. The official account is not true, and other times the official account not only is true, but belief in the official account is necessary for us to sort of make progress as a society, right? So. The trouble is we don’t know which time is which. Well, well that, that’s, that’s what I was gonna say. I mean, I, I used to actually kind of in my own rein, have this narrative that, you know, certain sources were true and certain not, but even, yeah. You know, even after, you know, things that happened during COVID, for example. Yeah. Um, um, you know, the Wuhan Laboratories and, and things like that, that, you know, everybody looked at as a. A conspiracy theory and all this stuff, right? A tinfoil hat theory, a tinfoil hat, and you brought it up and you were crazy and everybody, you know, and, and the next thing you know, that’s the truth. That’s what happened. Yeah. So it, I think you’d even take people, um, it, it makes people who, uh, believe in the system, not believe in the system anymore. And, and I think that’s kind of where a lot of people are headed. That’s where the huge danger is. Yeah. And, and I think one area of research that is so. That is empowering and is hopeful. I have a, a doctoral student who is doing her dissertation on this. It’s a, it’s a concept called intellectual humility, which is just the extent to which we acknowledge that our beliefs and our perceptions of the world could be wrong. And what happens is when you operate in an intellectually humble way when you have beliefs, but you also are open to the fact that new information could come in at any moment, that could tell you that the things that you thought were true are not true. When you live that way, you tend to. Be closer to empirical truth than the people who are intellectually arrogant because the people who are intellectually arrogant, they’re so sure they’re right and they’re never looking to update their views. Yeah. You know, curiously on that too, like what, what does a research show about like highly educated or quote unquote intelligent people? Are they just as vulnerable? Are they more vulnerable? Because of this. And you know, in some ways I would think they’re almost more vulnerable. Yeah. And, and I think that it depends. So when we look at individual level factors and how they interact with susceptibility to MIS and disinformation, all of these different, so there’ll be psychological traits that interact with education level, that interact with what kinds of things you then are exposed to. So it is complicated. It’s complicated. So it tends to be the case that people who are. Perhaps more educated are more likely to seek out information from more like legacy journalistic sources. Yeah, yeah. Right. Yeah. Right. So, and on average, those sources tend to have more things that are empirically true than if you’re just sort of like looking on the internet for whatever you can find. Um, in fact, there’s also some research that shows that the people who report, um, quote unquote doing their own research. They are statistically more likely to believe misinformation, which actually makes sense because when you think you’re doing your own research, you’re actually doing what we call selecting on the dependent variable, which is you are looking for the information that confirms what you think is true. That is just what we tend to do. Unless you’re doing a controlled experiment. Yeah. You’re not actually looking for information that contradicts your beliefs. So, you know, we do this, this is, uh, a lot of times, um, you know, we talk about, uh, personal finance and mm-hmm. And macroeconomics and stuff. How does this translate over to like, beliefs about. Economy, the, you know, ’cause these are, these are important things that, again, there is incredibly different, uh, views on. Sure. You know, um, an example now, uh, an example is that everyone, you know, whether, whatever you believe the pol policy or not, that, that, that, that tariffs were going to drive inflation, a hundred percent inflation was gonna skyrocket. The last CPI number comes under like under three right? 2.7%. Yeah. Like what, what, tell me how this all applies to that kind of news, that information. Yeah, so, so I, I’m going to make a, a couple points that I think will, will get to your question. Yeah. Because, you know, a, a lot of what I have landed on is this role of social identity, right? In shaping belief systems and. One thing that I’m sure you’re familiar with is that when the party in the White House switches overnight from Democrat to Republican, people’s perception of how the economy is doing as a function of political party flips over. So when the White House went from Biden to Trump in January, 2025, overnight, Republicans went from thinking the economy was in the trash to thinking the economy was doing excellent, and Democrats did the opposite. So is that an actual empirical observation of the world, or is that an expression of their. Perception that their team is in charge. Therefore, things must be better. Or now my team is no longer in charge, so now things must be worse. Right. That’s the big one. We see that. You know, I’m. Every election back to who, however long this has been tracked, we see this. Um, another thing that I think is interesting is in terms of people’s perceptions of whether or not the economy is good or bad, that is very much shaped by who we’re talking to and what information we’re exposed to. So this, this in invites a whole host of questions about how should elites talk about. Economic health, right? You had under Biden, Biden trying to tell people, the economy is doing really well, the economy is doing great. Look at all these metrics. The economy is doing great. And so you have Democrats saying, oh yeah, the economy is doing well, and Republicans saying, I am looking at how much things cost. I am looking at, you know, various things in my bank account. I’m gonna say the economy is not doing well. I also think that Biden is not a great president, so I tend to think that things aren’t going well when the other party’s in charge. And then you look now under Trump. Trump is in a bit of a pickle, right? Because he is saying the economy is doing well. He’s saying, look at these metrics, look at these numbers, and you have this sort of. Viral perception among people that we are in a stagnant economy. I even heard my 15-year-old, we were at Costco and we got, you know, their pizza slices are like $2. We got pizza slices and she said, well. You can get a whole dinner for $8 in this economy, Rick. I was like, what? Economy? But, but those perceptions are so, and it, it’s also very, very difficult to figure out where did that perception come from? Yeah, yeah. How do we isolate the source of that perception that this economy is, is not good. Yeah. Well then certainly like behaviors follow, right. And yeah. So I guess, yeah. I guess that’s like, I mean, I’m sure that’s a completely different thing. Like, I mean, how do, how do these, you know, different perceptions. Party based perceptions Sure. Ultimately influence the economy because of the way people think of the economy. Exactly. Right. And how, how do mm-hmm. When it comes to what have tariffs done, right? Mm-hmm. Like I’m not an economist. I do not know what tariffs have done. My understanding from my media exposure is that there are, on some certain kinds of items, prices have gone up a bit, but that some of the other. Like at the grocery store, for example, some of the price increases that we see there are not the result of tariffs. So then what are they the result of when it comes to how we attribute responsibility and blame, that is also very much shaped by our social identity. So if it helps me to think my grapes are expensive because of Donald Trump, then that’s what I’m going to think. Give us your sort of final thought here. Mm-hmm. Just in terms of, you know, what’s, what’s the learning. Here and how can we apply this to our own thinking? So, so I, I like to leave things on, on a kind of positive note because there is a lot to be concerned about in such a fractured information space. Um. One of the things that has been bringing me some, some hope that I think we could carry with us into how we think about what it is that people yearn for, what it is that people want. Even in this, this very splintered environment, I am convinced that even though all of our technology is creating atomized spaces for us to become our most exaggerated version of our self. I think what we really crave as human beings are shared experiences, opportunities for us to share experiences together, whether that be media content that we then want to talk about, whether those be events. There is a reason why football is still such a successful, um. Kind of entertainment. Right? And there’s also a reason why when there are cultural stories that allow us to all talk about them, like the couple at the cold play concert that was outed or whatever, there are reasons why those moments just catch fire. And I think it is because despite the fact that our technology platforms are trying to give us. Atomized, individualized, discreet spaces. At the end of the day, we really do want to share things with one another. Good stuff. Uh, professor Young, uh, uh, Dana Young, it, the book again is Wrong. How Media, politics and Identity Drive Our Appetite for Misinformation. Thank you so much for being on Wealth Formula Podcast. Great. Thanks so much. It was fun. We’ll be right back. You make a lot of money, but are still worried about retirement. Maybe you didn’t start earning until your thirties. Now you’re trying to catch up. Meanwhile, you’ve got a mortgage, a private school to pay for, and you feel like you’re getting further and further behind. Now, good news, if you need to catch up on retirement, check out a program put out by some of the oldest and most prestigious life insurance companies in the world. It’s called Wealth Accelerator, and it can help you amplify your returns quickly, protect your money from creditors, and provide financial protection to your family if something happens to you. The concepts here are used by some of the wealthiest families in the world, and there’s no reason why they can’t be used by you. Check it out for yourself by going to wealthformulabanking.com. Welcome back to the show everyone. Hope you enjoyed it. Again, just make sure that you are getting multiple sources of information. Whether that comes to, you know, this show really is about personal finance and macroeconomics and only politics and all that is not what I’m into, but the point is. That, uh, when it comes to, uh, when it comes to anything including personal finance and microeconomics, make sure you have multiple sources of information. Listen to the arguments and, uh, you know, make a decision that you can live with, whether you’re right or wrong. That’s it for me this week on Wealth Formula Podcast. This is Buck Joffrey signing up. 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Keith challenges the usual "overpopulated vs. underpopulated" debate and shows why that's the wrong way to think about demographics—especially if you're a real estate investor. Listeners will hear about surprising global population comparisons that flip common assumptions.  Why raw population numbers don't actually explain housing shortages or rent strength. How household formation, aging, and migration really drive demand for rentals. Which kinds of markets tend to see persistent housing pressure—and why the US has a long‑term demographic edge. You'll come away seeing population headlines very differently, and with a clearer lens for spotting where future housing demand is most likely to show up. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/590 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, is the world overpopulated or underpopulated? Also is the United States over or underpopulated? These are not just rhetorical questions, because I'm going to answer them both. Just one of Africa's 54 nations has more births than all of Europe and Russia combined. One US state has seen their population decline for decades. This is all central to housing demand today. On get rich education   Keith Weinhold  0:36   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 1  1:21   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:31   Welcome to GRE from Norfolk Virginia to Norfolk, Nebraska and across 188 nations worldwide, you are inside. Get rich education. I am the GRE founder, Best Selling Author, longtime real estate investor. You can see my written work in Forbes and the USA Today, but I'm best known as the host of this incomprehensibly slack John operation that you're listening to right now. My name is Keith Weinhold. You probably know that already, one reason that we're talking about underpopulated versus overpopulated today is that also one of my degrees is in geography and demography, essentially, is human geography, and that's why this topic is in my wheelhouse. It's just a humble bachelor's degree, by the way, if a population is not staying stable or growing, then demand for housing just must atrophy away. That's what people think, but that is not true. That's oversimplified. In some cases. It might even be totally false. You're going to see why. Now, Earth's population is at an all time high of about 8.2 billion people, and it keeps growing, and it's going to continue to keep growing, but the rate of growth is slowing now. Where could all of the people on earth fit? This is just a bit of a ridiculous abstraction in a sense, but I think it helps you visualize things. Just take this scenario, if all the humans were packed together tightly, but in a somewhat realistic way, in a standing room only way, if every person on earth stood shoulder to shoulder, that would allow about 2.7 square feet per person, they would sort of be packed like a subway car. Well, they could fit in a square, about 27 kilometers on one side, about 17 miles on each side of that square. Now, what does that mean in real places that is smaller than New York City, about half the size of Los Angeles County and roughly the footprint of Lake Tahoe? So yes, every human alive today could physically fit inside one midsize us metro area. This alone tells you something important. The world's problem is certainly not a lack of space. Rather, it's where people live and not how many there are. So that was all of Earth's inhabitants. Now, where could all Americans fit us residents using the same shoulder to shoulder assumption, and the US population by mid year this year is supposed to be about 350,000,00349 that's a square about five and a half kilometers, or 3.4 miles on each side. And some real world comparisons there are. That's about half of Manhattan, smaller than San Francisco and roughly the size of Disney World, so every American could fit into a single small city footprint. And if you're beginning to form an early clue that we are not overpopulated globally, yes, that's the sense that you Should be getting.     Keith Weinhold  5:01   now, if you're in Bangladesh, it feels overpopulated there. They've got 175 million people, and that nation is only the size of Iowa. In area, Bangladesh is low lying and typhoon prone. They get a lot of flooding, which complicates their already bad sanitation problems and a dense population like that, and that creates waterborne diseases, and it's really more of an infrastructure problem in a place like Bangladesh than it is a population problem. Then Oppositely, you've got Australia as much land as the 48 contiguous states, yet just 27 million people in Australia, and only 1/400 as many people as Bangladesh in density. Now we talk about differential population. About 80% of Americans live in the eastern half of the US. But yet, the East is not overpopulated because we have sufficient infrastructure, and I've got some more mind blowing population stats for you later, both world and us. Now, as far as is the world overpopulated or underpopulated, which is our central question, depending on who you ask and where they live, you're going to hear completely different answers. Some people are convinced that the planet is bursting at the seams. Others warn that we're headed for a population collapse. But here's the problem, that question overpopulated or underpopulated, it's the wrong question. It's the wrong framing, especially if you're into real estate, because housing demand doesn't respond to total headcount or global averages or scary demographic headlines. Housing demand responds to where people live, how old they are, and how they form households. And once you understand this, a lot of things suddenly begin to make sense, like why housing shortages persist, why rents stay high, even when affordability feels stretched, why some states struggle while others boom, and why population headlines often mislead investors.   Keith Weinhold  7:20   So today I want to reframe how you think about population and connect it directly to housing demand, both globally and right here in the United States. And let's start with the US, because that's probably where you invest.    Keith Weinhold  7:33   Here's a simple fact that should confuse people, but usually doesn't, the United States has below replacement fertility. I'll talk about fertility rates a little later. They're similar to birth rates, meaning that Americans are not having enough children to replace the population naturally and without immigration, the US population would eventually shrink, and yet in the US, we have a housing shortage, rising rents, tight vacancy and a lot of metros and persistent demand for rental housing, which could all seem contradictory. Now, if population alone determine housing demand, well, then the US really shouldn't have any housing shortage at all, but it does so clearly, population alone is not the main driver, and really that contradiction is like your first clue that most demographic conversations are just missing the point. Aging does not reduce housing demand. The way that people think a misconception really is that an aging population automatically reduces housing demand. It does not, in fact, just the opposite. If a population is too young, well, that tends to kill housing demand, and that's because five year old kids and 10 year old kids do not form their own household. Instead, what an aging population often does is change the type of housing that's demanded, like seniors aging in place, some of them downsizing. Seniors living alone. Sometimes after a spouse passes away, others relocating closer to health care or to family. So aging can increase unit demand even if population growth slows. So already, we've broken two myths here. Slower population doesn't mean weaker housing demand, and aging doesn't mean fewer housing units are needed. Now let's explain why. Really, the core idea that unlocks everything is that people don't live inside, what are called Population units. They live in households. You are one person. That does not mean that your dwelling is then one population unit. That's not how that works. You are part of a household, whether that's a house a Household of one person or five or 11 people, housing demand is driven by the number of households, the type of households and where those households are forming, not by raw population totals. So the same population can have wildly different demand. Just think about how five people living together in one home, that's one housing unit, those same five people living separately, that is five housing units, same population, five times the housing demand. And this is why population statistics alone are almost useless for real estate investors, you need to know how people are living, not just how many there are. The biggest surge in housing demand happens when people leave their parents' homes or when they finish school or when they start working, or you got big surges in housing demand when people marry or when they separate or divorce. So in other words, adults create housing demand and children don't. And this is why a country with a youngish, working age population, oh, then they can have exploding housing demand. A country with high birth rates, but low household formation can have overcrowding without profitable housing growth. So it's not about babies, it's about independent adults, and what quietly boosts housing demand, then is housing fragmentation. Yeah, fragmentation. That's a trend that really doesn't get enough attention, and that is the trend, households are fragmenting, meaning more single adults later marriage, like I was talking about in a previous episode. Recently, higher divorce rates, more people living alone and older adults living independently, longer. Each one of those trends increases housing demand without adding any population whatsoever. When two people split up, they often need two housing units instead of one, and if you've got one adult living alone, that is full unit demand right there. So that's why housing demand can rise even when population growth slows or stalls for housing demand. What matters more than births is migration. And another key distinction is that, yes, births matter, but they're on somewhat of this 20 year delay and migration matters immediately, right now. So see, when a working age adult moves, they need housing right away. They typically rent first. They cluster near jobs, and they don't bring housing supply along with them. They've got to get it from someone else. Hopefully you in your rental unit.    Keith Weinhold  12:57   This is why migration is such a powerful force in rental markets, and you see me talk about migration on the show, and you see me send you migration maps in our newsletter. It's also why housing pressure shows up unevenly. It gets concentrated around opportunity. If you want to know the future, look at renters. Renters are the leading indicator, not homeowners and not birth rates. See renters create housing demand faster than homeowners, because renters form households earlier. They can do it quickly because they don't need down payments. Renters move more frequently and immigration overwhelmingly starts in rentals, fresh immigrants rarely become homeowners, so even when mortgage rates rise or home purchases slow or affordability headlines get scary, rental demand can stay strong. It's not a mystery, it's demographics. So births surely matter, but only over the long term. It's like how I've shared with you in a previous episode that the US had a lot of births between 1990 and 2010 those two decades, a surge of births more than 4 million every single one of those years during those two decades, with that peak birth year at 2007 but see a bunch of babies being born in 2007 Well, that didn't make housing demand surge, since infants don't buy homes. But if you add, say, 20 years to 2007 when those people start renting, oh, well, that rental demand peaks in 2027 or maybe a little after that, and since the first time, homebuyer age is now 40. If that stays constant, well, then native born homebuyer demand won't peak until 2047 so when it comes to housing demand, the important thing to remember is migration has an immediate effect and births have a delayed effect.    Keith Weinhold  15:02   and I'm going to talk more about other nations shortly, but the US has two major migration forces working simultaneously, domestic and international migration. I mean, Americans move a lot, although not as much as they used to, and people move for jobs, for taxes, for weather, for cost of living and for lifestyle. So this creates state level winners and losers, and Metro level housing pressure and rent growth in those destination markets and national population averages totally hide this. So that's domestic migration. And then on the international migration. The US has a long history, hundreds of years now on, just continually attracting working age adults from around the world. This matters immensely, because they arrive ready to work, and they form households quickly. They overwhelmingly rent first. They concentrate in metros, and this props up rental demand before it ever shows up in home prices. And this is why investors often feel the rent pressure first those rising rents.    Keith Weinhold  16:17   I've got more straight ahead, including Nigeria versus Europe, and what about the overpopulation straining the environment? If you like, episodes that explain why housing behaves the way it does, rather than just reacting to the headlines. You'll want to be on my free weekly newsletter. I break down demographics, housing, demand, inflation, investor trends and real estate strategy in plain English, often complemented with maps. You can join free at greletter.com that's gre letter.com   Keith Weinhold  16:53   mid south homebuyers with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated. There is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's midsouthhomebuyers.com   Keith Weinhold  17:54   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989Yep. Text their freedom coach directly again. 1937795, 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  19:05   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Chris Martenson  19:37   this is peak prosperity. Is Chris Martinson. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  19:53   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and this is episode 590 yes, we're in my Geography wheelhouse today, as I'm talking human geography and demographics with how it relates to housing, while answering our central question today is the world and the US overpopulated or underpopulated? And now that we understand some mechanics here, let's go global. Here's one of the most mind bending stats in all of demographics. Are you ready for this? When you hear this, it's going to have you hitting up chat, GPT, looking it up. It's going to be so astonishing. So jaw dropping. Every year, Nigeria has more births than all of Europe plus all of Russia combined. Would you talk about Willis?   Keith Weinhold  20:47   Yeah, yes, you heard that, right? Willis, that's what I'm talking about. Willis. The source of that data is, in fact, from the United Nations. Yes, Nigeria has seven and a half million births every year. Compare that to all of Europe plus Russia combined, they only have about 6.3 million births per year. So you're telling me that today, just one West African nation, and there are 54 nations in Africa. Just one West African nation produces more babies than the entire continent of Europe, with all of its nations plus all of Russia, the largest world nation by area. Yes, that is correct. One country in Africa produces more babies every year than France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the UK, all of Europe, including all the Eastern European nations, and all of Russia combined. This is a demographic reality, and now you probably already know that less developed nations, like Nigeria have higher birth rates than wealthier, more developed ones like France or Switzerland. I mean, that's almost common knowledge, but something that people think about less is that poorer nations also have a larger household size, which sort of makes sense when you think about it. In fact, Nigeria has five persons per household. Spain has two and a half, and the US also has that same level two and a half. That one difference alone explains why population growth and housing demand are completely different stories now, the US had 3.3 people per household in 1950 and it's down to that two and a half today. That means that even if the population stayed the same, the housing demand would rise. And this is evidence of what I talked about before the break, that households are fragmenting within the US. You can probably guess which state has the largest household size due to their Mormon population. It's Utah at 3.1 the smallest is Maine at 2.3 they have an older population. In fact, Maine has America's oldest population. And as you can infer with what you've learned now, the fact that they have just 2.3 people per household means that if their populations were the same. Maine would need more housing units than Utah. By the way, if you're listening closely at times, I have referred to the United States as simply America. Yes, I am American. You are going to run into some people out there that don't like it. When US residents call themselves Americans, they say something like, Hey, you need a geography lesson. America runs from Nunavut all the way down to Argentina. Here's what to tell them. No, look, there are about 200 world nations. There is only one that has the word America in it, that is the United States of America that usually makes them lighten up. That is why I am an American, not a Peruvian or Bolivian, and there's no xenophobic connotation whatsoever. There are more productive things to think about moving on. Why births matter is because births today become future workers, renters, consumers and even migrants. But not evenly. Young populations move toward a few things. They're attracted to capital. They move towards stability. They're attracted to opportunity, and young populations move toward infrastructure. That's not ideology, that's the gravity and the US remains one of the strongest gravity wells on Earth, a big magnet, a big attractant. Now it's sort of interesting. I know a few a People that believe that the world is indeed overpopulated, they often tend to be environmental enthusiasts, and the environment is a concern, for sure, but how big of a concern is it? That's the debatable part. And you know, it's funny, I've run into the same people that think that the world is overpopulated, they seem to lament at school closures. You see more school closures because just there weren't as many children that were born after the global financial crisis. And these people that are afraid we have an overpopulation problem call school closures a sad phenomenon. They think it's sad. Well, if you want a shrinking population, then you're going to see a lot more than just schools close so many with environmental concerns, though. The thing is, is that they seem to discount the fact that humans innovate. More than 200 years ago, Thomas Malthus, he famously failed. He wrote a book, thinking that the global population would exceed what he called his carrying capacity, meaning that we wouldn't be able to feed everybody. He posited that, look, this is a problem. Populations grow exponentially, but food production only grows linearly. But he was wrong, because, due to agricultural innovation, we have got too many calories in most places. Few people thought this many humans could live in the United States, Sonoran and Mojave deserts, that's Phoenix in Las Vegas, respectively. But our ability to recycle and purify water allows millions of people to live there. So my point about running out of resources is that history shows us that humans are a resource ourselves, and we keep finding ways to innovate, or keep finding ways to actually not need that rare earth element or whatever it is now, if the earth warms too much from human related activity, can we cool it off again? And how much of a problem is this? I am not sure, and that goes beyond the scope of our show. But the broader point here is that history shows us that humans keep figuring things out, and that is somewhat of an answer to those questions. The world is not overpopulated, it is unevenly populated. Some regions are young, others are growing, others are capital constrained, and then other regions are aging, shrinking and capital rich. And that very imbalance right there is what fuels migration and fuels labor flows and fuels housing demand in destination countries and the US benefits from this imbalance. Unlike almost anywhere else in the world, it's a demographic magnet. Yes, you do have some smaller ones out there, like Dubai, for example.    Keith Weinhold  28:04   But why? Why do we keep attracting immigrants? Well, we've got strong labor markets, capital availability, property rights, economic mobility, and US has existing housing stock. Countries today don't just compete for capital, they're competing for people. In the US keeps attracting working age adults, and that is exactly the demographic that creates housing demand, and this is why long term housing demand in the US is more resilient than a lot of people think. In fact, the US population of about 350 million. This year, it's projected to peak at about 370 million, near 2080 and of course, the big factor that makes that pivot is that level of immigration. So that's why the population projections vary now. The last presidential administration allowed for a lot of immigrants. The current one few immigrants, and the next one, nobody knows. You've got a group called the falconist party that calls for increased legal immigration into the US. Yeah, they want to allow more migrants into the country, but yet they want to enforce illegal immigration. That sounds just like it's spelled, F, A, L, C, O, N, i, s, t, the falconist Party, but the us's magnetic effect to keep driving population growth through immigration is key, because you might already know that 2.1 is the magic number you need a fertility rate of at least 2.1 to maintain a population fertility rate that is the average number of children that a woman is expected to have over her lifetime. And be sure you don't confuse these numbers with the earlier numbers of people per. Per household, like I discussed earlier, although higher fertility rates are usually going to lead to more people per household, India's fertility rate is already down to 2.0 Yes, it is the most populated nation in the world, but since women, on average, only have two children, India is already below replacement fertility. The US and Australia are each at 1.6 Japan is just 1.2 China's is down to 1.0 South Korea's is at an incredibly low seven tenths of one, so 0.7 in South Korea, and then Nigeria's is still more than four. So among all those that I mentioned, only Nigeria is above the replacement rate of 2.1 and most of the nations above that rate are in Africa. Israel is a big outlier at 2.9 you've got others in the Middle East and South Asia that are above replacement rate as well. And when I say things like it's still up there, that whole still thing refers to the fact that there is this tendency worldwide for society to urbanize and have fewer children. For those fertility rates to keep falling. And that's why the future population growth is about which nations attract immigrants, and that is the US. Is huge advantage. Now there's a great way to look at where future births are going to come from. A way to do this is consider your chance of being born on each continent in the year 2100 This is interesting. In the year 2100 a person has a 48% chance of being born in Africa, 38% in South Asia, in the Middle East, 5% South America, 5% in Europe or Russia, 4% in North America, and less than 1% in Australia. Those are the chances of you being born on each of those continents in the year 2100 and that sourced by the UN.   Keith Weinhold  32:09   the world population is, as I said earlier, about 8.2 billion, and it's actually expected to peak around the same time that the US population is in the 2080s and that'll be near 10 point 3 billion. All right, so both the world and the US population should rise for another 50 to 60 years. Let's talk about population winners and losers inside the US. I mean, this is where population conversations really become useful for investors, because population doesn't matter nationally that much. It really matters locally, unevenly and sometimes it almost feels unfairly. So let me give you some perspective shifting stats. I think I shared with you when I discussed new New York City Mayor Zoran Manami here on the show a month or two ago, that the New York City Metro Area has over 20 million people, nearly double the combined population of Arizona and Nevada together, yes, just one metro area, the same as Two entire sparsely populated states. So when someone says people are leaving New York I mean that tells you almost nothing, unless you know where they're going. How many are still arriving in New York City to replace those leaving, and how many households are still forming inside that Metro? The household formation so scale matters, however, net, people are not leaving New York. New York City recently had more in migration than any other US Metro. Some states are practically empty. Alaska or take Wyoming. Wyoming has fewer than 600,000 people in the entire state. That's fewer people than a lot of single US cities. That's only about six people per square mile. In Wyoming, that's about the population of one midsize Metro suburb. Now, when someone says the US has plenty of land in a lot of cases, they're right. I mean, just look out the window when you fly over Wyoming or the Dakotas. But people don't really live where land is cheap. They actually don't want to. Most of the time. They live where jobs, incomes and their networks already exist. You know, the wealthy guy that retires to Wyoming and it has a 200 acre ranch is an outlier. There's a reason he can sprawl out and make it 200 acres. There's virtually nobody there. Let's understand too that population loss, that doesn't mean that demand is gone, but it does change the rules, especially when you think about a place like West Virginia. They have lost population in most decades since the 1950s and incredibly, their population is lower today than it was in 1930 we're talking about West Virginia statewide. They have an aging population. West Virginia has an outmigration of young adults. So this doesn't mean that no real estate works in West Virginia, but it means that appreciation stories are fragile. Income matters more than equity. Growth and demographics are a headwind, not a tailwind. That's a very different investment posture than where you usually want to be. It's important to understand that a handful of metros, just a handful, are absorbing massive national growth. And here's something that a lot of investors underestimate. About half of all US, population growth flows into fewer than 15 metro areas, and it's not just New York City, Houston, Miami, but smaller places like Jacksonville, Austin and Raleigh, and that really helps pump their real estate market. So that means demand concentrates, housing pressure intensifies, and rent growth becomes pretty sticky, unless you wildly overbuild for a short period of time like Austin did, and this is why some metros just feel perpetually tight over the long term, and others feel permanently sluggish. Population does not spread evenly. It piles up. In fact, Texas is a great case in point here. Understand that Texas is adding people faster than some entire nations do. Texas alone adds hundreds of 1000s of residents per year in strong cycles. Some years, they do add more people than entire small countries, more than several Midwest states combined. And of course, they don't spread evenly across Texas. They cluster in DFW, Houston, Austin and San Antonio, so pretty much the Texas triangle, and that clustering fact is everything for housing demand, yet at the same time, there are fully 75 Texas counties that are losing population, typically out in West Texas. Then there's Florida. Florida isn't just growing. It's replacing people. Florida's growth. It's not just net positive, it's replacement migration, and it's across all different types and ages. You've got retirees arriving, you've got young workers arriving, you've got young households forming, and you've got seniors aging in place. So this way, among a whole spectrum of ages, you've got demand for rentals, workforce housing, age specific, housing and multifamily all in Florida, and this is why Florida housing demand over the long term is not going to cool off the way that a few skeptics expect. Now, of course, some areas did temporarily overbuild in Florida in the years following the pandemic. Yes, that's led to some temporary Florida home price attrition, but that is going to be absorbed. California did not empty out. It reshuffled now. There were some recent years where California lost net population, but here's what that hides. Some metros lost residents. Others stayed flat. You had some income brackets that left California and others arrived. In fact, California has slight population growth today overall, so housing demand definitely did not vanish. It shifted within the state and then outward to nearby states, and that's how Arizona, Nevada and Texas benefited. But overall, California's population count, really, it's just pretty steady, not declining.   Keith Weinhold  39:05   population density. It's that density that predicts rent pressure better than growth rates. Do something really important for real estate investors. Dense metros absorb shocks better. They have less elastic housing supply, and they see faster rent rebounds. Sparse areas have cheaper land and easier supply expansion and weaker rent resilience. So that's why rents snap back faster in dense metros, and oversupply hurts more in spread out to regions. Density matters more than raw growth does. Shrinking states can still have tight housing I mean, some states lose population overall, but yet they still have housing shortages in certain metros, and you'll have tight rental markets near job centers, and you've got strong demand In limited sub markets, even if the state is shrinking. And I think you know this is why the slower growing Northeast and Midwest, they've had the highest home price appreciation in the past two years. There's not enough building there. If your population falls 1% but the available housing falls 2% well, you can totally get into a housing shortage situation, and that bids up real estate prices. And when people look at population charts on the state level, a lot of times, they still get misled. When you buy an investment property, you don't buy a state, you buy a specific market within it, so the United States is not full it is lopsided. The US is not overpopulated. It is heavily clustered. It's unevenly dense, and it's really driven by migration. And perhaps a better way to say it is that the US population is really opportunity concentrated housing demand follows jobs, networks, wages and migration flows. It sure does not follow empty land. And really the investor takeaway is, is that when you hear population stats, don't put too much weight on the question, is the population rising or falling? Although that's something you certainly want to know. Some better questions to ask are, where are households forming? Where are adults moving? Where is supply constrained? And where does income support, rent like those are, what four big questions there, because population alone does not create housing demand. It's households under constraint that do so. Our big arching overall question is the world overpopulated or underpopulated? The answer is neither. The world is unevenly populated. It's unevenly aged, and it's unevenly governed. And for real estate investors, the lesson is simple. You don't invest in population counts, you invest in household formation, age structure, migration and supply constraints. Really, that's a big learning summary for you, that's why housing demand can stay strong even when population growth slows. And once you understand that demographic headlines that seem scary aren't as scary, and they start to be more useful. Why I've wanted to do this overpopulated versus underpopulated episode for you for years. I've really thought about it for years. I really hope that you got something useful out of it. Let's be mindful of the context too. When it comes to the classic Adam Smith economics of supply demand, I've only discussed one side today, largely just the demand side and not the supply side so much that would involve a discussion about building and some more things that supply side. Now that I've helped you ask a better question about population and the future of housing demand, you might wonder where you can get better answers. Well, like I mentioned earlier, I provide a lot of that and help you make sense of it, both right here on this show and with my newsletter, geography is something that's more conducive and meaningful to you visually, that's often done with a map, and that's why my letter at greletter.com will help you more if you enjoy learning through maps, just like we've done every year since 2014 I've got 52 great episodes coming to you this year. If you haven't consider subscribing to the show until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  43:57   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively you   Keith Weinhold  44:25   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com

What if the reason you feel stuck in sales has nothing to do with your script, funnel, or marketing strategy? In this episode, Ray Higdon breaks down a powerful mindset shift that separates average sellers from top sales leaders: stop chasing prospects and start attracting them. This is not just about marketing. It is about posture. Top sales leaders manage the energy of the conversation. They do not chase people. They position themselves as solution providers who bring value, clarity, and confidence into every interaction. If you sell anything at all—products, services, coaching, or opportunities—this episode will change how you see yourself and how prospects respond to you. ——

Work with Jimmy & the Vreeland Capital Team to build a 20-Unit Portfolio that will get you the equivalent of a retirement account 3X faster with a third of the capital. Visit https://tinyurl.com/mainstreetpatriot... In this episode of The Real Estate Fast Pass, hosts Jimmy Vreeland and Susie Vreeland break down a headline making the rounds in the mortgage world and use it as a springboard to explain what actually moves 30-year mortgage rates. Jimmy unpacks how Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac support lending liquidity through mortgage-backed securities, why mortgage rates tend to track the 10-year Treasury, and what happens when big institutional buyers step in (or step out) of the bond market. From there, they zoom out to the bigger truth: even if rates dip, affordability doesn't magically fix itself when the real constraint is housing supply—lower rates can just pour gasoline on demand and push prices higher. If you're trying to build long-term wealth, this conversation will help you tune out the noise, understand the system, and focus on the repeatable move: lock in smart, stable assets, use leverage responsibly, and keep stacking 30-year fixed “boats in the water” while everyone else is chasing headlines. About Jimmy Vreeland Jimmy graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point, spent 5 years as an Army Ranger, and deployed three times twice to Iraq and once to Afghanistan. On his last deployment, he read Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki which led him down the path of real estate investing. As his own portfolio grew, eventually he started a real estate investing business.  Since 2018 his team at Vreeland Capital has supplied over 100 houses a year to high performing, passive investors who want to work with his team and his team is now managing over 800 houses. Get in touch with Jimmy and his team at www.jimmyvreeland.com/getstartedinrealestate More about Jimmy Website: www.jimmyvreeland.com Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jimmy-vreeland Instagram: www.instagram.com/jimmyvreeland Facebook: www.facebook.com/JimmyVreeland Youtube: www.youtube.com/@JimmyVreelandC >>>>>>Get free access to the private Ranger Real Estate facebook group

Silber war das Investment Highlight 2025, doch wie real ist der Hype um Knappheit wirklich? Ich zeige dir die Fakten hinter COMEX, China Preisunterschieden und erkläre, warum ich kurz vor Jahresende 75 Prozent meiner Silber Trading Positionen verkauft habe. Vereinbare jetzt dein kostenfreies Strategiegespräch: https://jensrabe.de/Q1Termin26 Trage dich hier in meinen täglichen kostenfreien Newsletter ein https://jensrabe.de/Q1NewsYT26

In today's episode of Home Business Profits with Ray Higdon, Ray reveals the surprising reason why most sales reps fail and how to overcome it. Discover inspiring stories of perseverance and learn why patience is the key to long-term success in sales. Tune in now and find out how to stay in the game and achieve your sales goals. ——

In this episode, we dive deep into retirement planning statistics that might surprise you—and hopefully motivate you to take action. We break down the numbers, share personal stories, and give you practical steps to start preparing for your future, no matter what stage of life you're in.   Key Takeaways Start where you are: Even if you're past the "ideal" window for compounding, taking action now is better than waiting Know your numbers: Understand what government benefits you'll actually receive Review your spending: Track where your money goes—especially dining out Think long-term: You're likely to live longer than previous generations planned for Get professional help: This isn't your specialty, and that's okay Action Steps Review your current retirement savings and projections Calculate your expected CPP and OAS benefits Analyze 3 months of spending to find financial leaks Consider insurance as part of your investment strategy Have honest conversations with your partner about retirement goals Resources Mentioned Statistics Canada retirement data (2022-2025) The Latte Factor by David Bach Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki and Sharon Lechter The Psychology of Money by Morgan Housel   Let's dive in! Thank you for joining us today. If you could rate, review & subscribe, it would mean the world to me! While you're at it, take a screenshot and tag me @jennpike to share on Instagram – I'll re-share that baby out to the community & once a month I'll be doing a draw from those re-shares and send the winner something special! Click here to listen: Apple Podcasts – CLICK HERESpotify – CLICK HERE Free Resources: Free Perimenopause Support Guide | jennpike.com/perimenopausesupport Free Blood Work Guide | jennpike.com/bloodworkguide The Simplicity Sessions Podcast | jennpike.com/podcast Get 20% on thewalkingpad.com using code "JENNPIKE20" Get discounts at happybumco.com using code "JENNPIKE" *code doesn't apply with Black Friday sale* Programs: Ignite: Your 8-Week Body Transformation Program | https://jennpike.com/ignite The Peri & Menopause Project  - Join the Waitlist | jennpike.com/theperimenopauseproject Synced Virtual Fitness Studio | jennpike.com/synced Services: Work With Jenn | https://jennpike.com/work-with-jenn/ Functional Testing | jennpike.com/testing-packages Business Mentorship | The Audacious Woman Mentorship:  jennpike.com/theaudaciouswoman Connect with Jenn: Instagram | @jennpike Facebook | @thesimplicityproject YouTube | Simplicity TV Website | The Simplicity Project Inc. Connect with Chris: Instagram | @chrisborsellino Finance Discovery Session | Book Here Have a question? Send it over to hello@jennpike.com and I'll do my best to share helpful insights, thoughts and advice.

In this episode of Home Business Profits with Ray Higdon, discover the cold prospecting scripts that have helped entrepreneurs achieve remarkable success. Hear firsthand success stories and practical advice on how these scripts can transform your business and maximize your profits. Learn how a simple, targeted approach can make all the difference in your prospecting efforts. Tune in now! ——

Keith Weinhold breaks down how recent presidential housing policies could influence real estate investors and everyday homebuyers.  Then he walks through four different ways to eventually exit your investment properties—including a little-known strategy most investors have never heard of—so you can start thinking about how you'll one day harvest your gains, potentially with minimal or no taxes, while still preserving your wealth and flexibility. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/589 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the presidential administration has made some weighty decisions that could affect the real estate market for years. Then when it's time for you to sell your investment property, there are some smart ways to do it and some big mistakes to avoid. We're talking about four options for your real estate exit strategy, including the little discussed 721 exchange today on get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  0:32   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Russell Gray  1:18   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:28   Welcome to GRE you're inside one of America's longest running and most listened to shows on real estate investing. This is Get Rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, if you're working for the weekend, then you had better examine your Monday to Friday and start investing for leverage in income that's generated today. The good news is that down the road, when it comes time for you to sell your investment property, hopefully, after decades of handsome profits, even if that is years away, there are a lot of good options for you, including multiple ones that are tax deferred and effectively tax free. I'll discuss that later today, what we know, and what history has proven, is that savers lose wealth, stock investors maintain wealth, real estate investors build wealth. And I contend that within the discipline of real estate, being the investor is the best job of all of them, because, look, realtors rarely build wealth. Property managers that don't actually own the real estate, they also rarely build wealth. And the people on your maintenance team, they don't build wealth either. Now, as much as we might appreciate all these service professionals, I mean, I sure do this is not meant to disparage them. I'm trying to help you pick the right lane in real estate. Know that you're doing the right thing. Do the right thing before you do things right. By their own admission, the National Association of Realtors, the NAR they will tell you that the median gross income for a realtor is. Do you want to guess? Any guess as to what the median gross income for a realtor is? It is $58,100. that's it.    Keith Weinhold  3:37   And realize that's the figure being reported by the trade organization that represents the industry too licensed sales agents. Median income that's even lower. It is $41,700 also per the NAR I see myself realtors that have been in business 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, and all that time, they have never bought a single investment property for themselves. Instead, a lot of them spend their entire career helping other people get rich while they never get on the treadmill. But do you know what is even crazier to me, crazier than that, it's the number of people that manage properties, including some of my own property managers that I hire, and they don't own any investment real estate themselves. And I think that's crazy, because managers are doing what is one of the toughest jobs in real estate, always having to walk that tightrope, arbitrating between the property owner and the tenant, and as a result, often pleasing nobody. They're sort of like the football referee, the baseball umpire, the property manager they have to deal with The problem tenant. The manager has to bug the tenant to collect the late rent, and then your maintenance people. You know, I just met up with a contractor that's putting new flooring in one of my rentals. He's got a sense of humor, and he wore this great t shirt that says, I'm here because you broke it. I love that. But now his compensation isn't too shabby, but he's trading his time for dollars, and the income stops when his work stops. The lesson is, be the asset owner.    Keith Weinhold  5:35   Now this presidential administration has shaken up a lot of policies, good or bad we've got a bunch of new directives centered on the housing market. And really, this shouldn't come as any sort of surprise, since be mindful, the current White House occupant is a long time New York City Real Estate Investor, some of the more recent weighty moves that can affect you are banning institutional investors from buying single family homes that they turn into rentals, and the other one is a $200 billion bond purchase program aimed at reducing mortgage rates. Okay, whether those two things happen or not, it's good to look at their effect, how they move a real estate market, because when you understand the effects, then you learn a lesson, even if you're listening to this episode 10 years from now, the move to ban institutional investors. We're talking about conglomerate groups like Blackstone and invitation homes. The move to ban them from buying single family rentals is to try to reduce the demand and therefore, hopefully lower the price of single family homes in order to help affordability. Okay, that could work in concept. But here's the other thing that it does, there would be fewer rentals available on the market, because most institutional investors do buy those build to rent properties, that's what they're looking to acquire. So it's sort of what most any real estate investor would want. They would get higher rents and maybe some somewhat lower purchase prices, or at least a lower appreciation rate. But this whole move to ban institutional investors, that is mostly a nothing burger, that's all we're talking about here. And here's why you cannot undo the institutional purchases that were already made, and a lot of those got made, a lot of them during the pandemic. So it would only be banning new purchases. And another important point to consider here is how small this market is. I think these institutional buyers make a whole lot of outsized noise and often get pointed to as the boogeyman for running up prices of real estate. But that's not true. Only about two to 3% of single family rentals are owned by these giant investors, at least the ones that have over 1000 units. Okay, so this all sounds good as a political platitude. You trying to do something about it? I sort of understand that, but this ban, it just would not move the market very much at all now, perhaps a slight move could be triggered in cities that do have a lot of institutional ownership, like Atlanta, Jacksonville, Charlotte, but really little effect. The second directive from the President is having Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy $200 billion worth of mortgage bonds. This is really an effort to drive down mortgage rates and bring down monthly payments and make the cost of home ownership more affordable. The translation here for you is that whenever you inject money into something, money tends to flow more freely and rates get lower, kind of lowering the dam wall height, like I have given to you in other examples, when you buy bonds that demand pushes up bond prices, which lowers bond yields. And mortgage rates are tied to those lowered bond yields. And as soon as this was announced, like the very next day, mortgage rates fell into the high fives, yes, under 6% for the first time in three years. But the last thing effect of this that's been studied, and it's been shown to reduce mortgage rates by about three tenths of 1% so not nothing, but sort of small. However, if they're buying down rates like this one time, well then they might do it multiple times. So there you go. There are two recent directives from the president banning institutional investors from buying single family homes and buying mortgage bonds to lower mortgage rates.    Keith Weinhold  10:00   Either one of them with seismic effects. It's sort of like the 50 year mortgage proposal that the administration made a while ago, and that's probably not going to become a reality anytime soon, if ever. Here's a question that I have for you, and I'll let you answer. Do you like free markets, or would you rather have big government? Well, each of these directives are more government intervention into the free market, whether you like that or not. Another way to say it is that stuff like this makes a lot of splashy headlines, but it's not a bigger deal than a Philadelphia Eagles football game,at least. You know how these forces can move markets now    Keith Weinhold  10:46   straight ahead, it's the concise, definitive audio guide to selling your investment property. I'm going to detail four different ways that you can do it in this guide, including tax deferred and effectively, tax free methods. When you're able to defer taxes over and over again throughout your entire life, they effectively become tax free. You never have any tax obligation. Also, I will discuss one way of selling your property that you're probably not familiar with and you might have never heard about before in your life. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 589 of get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  11:27   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre. Or or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly. Again. 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  12:39   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, start your pre qual and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Russell Gray  13:12   Hi. This is Russell Gray, Main Street capitalist. You're listening to the get rich education show with Keith weinholden. Remember, don't quit your Daydream.    Keith Weinhold  13:20   You welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and I'm coming to you from Colorado Springs today, where I'm attending the real estate guys create your future goals retreat event, yeah, a goals event allows one to get introspective. One part of it is learning how I can serve you better on this show. Every week, since I do pour a lot of thought into what I share with you here. How much yeah, just, how much did this event mean to me? Well, my team is in the NFL playoffs, and I was willing to miss some playoff football for this.   Speaker 1  14:07    That's inexcusable, inexcusable. Playoffs. Don't talk about playoffs. You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game.   Keith Weinhold  14:19   Yeah, yeah. That is, that is, of course, the classic rant from a former NFL coach, Jim Mora. Maybe Jim needs to attend the goals retreat to put things into perspective here. now, whether it's just a few years from now or it's decades into your future, at some point we're all going to exit the real estate investing game, even if that's not until the day we die. I'll talk about that with whatever endeavor you're in. It is good to begin with. The end In mind. there's a good chance that you're either in real estate acquisition mode now, or you once were. Or where you're going to be in that real estate acquisition mode in the future, but after this accumulation phase of your life, hopefully, which you've turned into financial freedom through real estate, after that, you're going to be in the mode where, since you've already made it, you're going to want to just maintain the portfolio that you have or stop acquiring or you will want to sell eventually. The good news is that there are a lot of good options for selling your property and doing it, tax deferred and effectively tax free. Now I will not talk about selling your primary residence so much, though, this is focused on exiting from your investment property, primary residence sales rules with the IRS is that your first 250k of gain is exempt from capital gains tax if you're single, and your first 500k is shielded from tax if you're married. Quite a marriage incentive there.    Keith Weinhold  15:59   But as we focus on investment properties. This is influenced by a question from one of our older GRE listeners, 62 year old, Mark, who wrote in last year, was such a good question and I answered his question on air last month. I'll basically expand on that answer today. Mark said he has listened to every GRE episode ever, and therefore, congratulations, he made it. He reached financial freedom, and he's got a sizable portfolio. Some of his properties are paid off. Others are leveraged. But see, Mark is hesitant to buy more property because he's already made it his wife doesn't want more properties because she associates it with him having to do more work. Now, when you're still in pursuit of financial freedom, well, you don't mind investing a small slice of your time each month into real estate, a little light management, remotely, maybe, but once your residual income exceeds all of your expenses, well, then at that point, your time is going to start to become more valuable. So let's look at four here, four solid options for exiting your property, and then I'm going to examine the pros and cons of each one. The first of four is simply to sell real estate in the conventional way, just a plain sale to a buyer, where you see that it gets fixed up and you list it and you sell it outright. Well, the pros of this are is that it gets you to your exit, and it also turns your equity into cash. The cons, the downside of doing it this way is that you're going to give up your ongoing stream of income. Your Cash Flow is going to be gone. You might have to remove tenants, depending on your scenario. You have to fix up and stage the home to prepare it for the market. That could be as little as 5k or as much as 50k or more, depending on the size of your real estate, you're going to have to pay a real estate agent a commission of 3% or more and pay capital gains tax of 15% or more. That's one five. And you'll also have to pay depreciation recapture, and of course, you don't have to pay 15% of the total asset value. It's just 15% of the value gain during the time that you held this property, right? So the tax and fix up cost can eat into your profit with this first of four ways to sell your property, although you are still probably in for a pretty nice windfall upon the sale if you've held it for a while. All right, so the first way is a plain sail, and a lot of people would agree that is not the best way to do it. Okay, it gets far better from here. The second sale option that you have is something that a lot of real estate investors like us are familiar with, or have at least heard of, and the general public has not, and that is the 1031 exchange. You'll also hear it be called the 1031 tax deferred Exchange, or the 1031 like kind exchange, because you trade your property up for another property that's kind of like it. It is a hugely powerful wealth building and wealth preservation tool, okay, section 1031, of the IRS tax code that allows an investor to exit a property without incurring any capital gains taxes. That also does not trigger depreciation recapture when you sell your property, but in order for you to get those tax deferred benefits. Importantly, you have to roll your game into another piece of real estate. Now there are a lot of rules and nuances around 1031 ones. I have done multiple 1030 ones in my life, and they are so worth doing and amplifying your wealth, building power I will not cover all the rules and nuances those things like the three properties rule and the 200% rule, and that rule about how you need to identify your replacement property within 45 days and close on it within 180 days, and all of that. Because what I've done is I've completely broken that down on the show with you here previously, and as always, I explained it in the most clear, incoherent way that I could for you. I best did that on episode 143 of get rich education. The name of that episode is your 1031 exchange guide, tax deferral for life. Now, there do get to be some numbers flying around here, so you want to listen closely, you might find yourself skipping back for simple example purposes, in a 1031assume that you bought a $200,000 duplex 20 years ago, and it's now worth 500k you depreciated the value of the duplex every year, as is actually required by the IRS, assuming you took a total of 100k of depreciation over the life of your ownership of it, and you did not make any improvements to it. The basis of your property is then 100k because it's your 200k purchase price, minus 100k in total depreciation write offs. When you sell the property for 500k you now have a gain of 500k minus 100k which is 400k depreciation, recapture and capital gains are not taxed at the same rate, and it depends on some things, but let's assume that your blended tax rate is 20% that means you would owe 20% on your 400k so that would be 80k in taxes if you just did the plain sale. But not many people want to stroke a check to the IRS for 80k so instead, if you take your 400k of gain and roll it into a new property, or properties, you can defer your obligation to pay this 80k. Yes, you do not owe the IRS a thing. Now this is beautiful. You get that tax break virtually nowhere else in the investing world, okay, so what you've now done is that you have exited the property a duplex, in this case, via 1031 exchange, and you've traded it up for another property. So you're still a real estate investor. You have not exited being one of those, but you sold the duplex and replaced it with another property, or properties, all right, that was the second of four sale options, the 1031, exchange, and, yeah, as you can see, there do get to be some numbers flying around, some deep dive learning for you here. And that's why I lightened it up with the Jim Mora clip before we dove in.   Keith Weinhold  22:54   The third way is called refi for life. Now we could almost put an asterisk on this third way, because with a refi for life, it's not a sale of the property at all. What it is is it's really a way for you to sell your equity to a bank yet still retain the property. Therefore, you access capital without triggering any taxes. You get a nice, big windfall payout while you still hold the asset, and it keeps paying you up to five ways at the same time. Yeah, you will also hear this refi for life strategy referred to as other things. Refi till you die, is one way to put it, as equity accumulates, say, every five or 10 years, you just do another cash out refi, enjoy the tax free windfall and keep holding on to the asset that is the same thing. Other names for this repeated series of cash out refis throughout your life that you might hear, which I'm calling refi for life. Those other names are live on leverage, the equity to income strategy, the infinite hold, the generational hold strategy, hold until step up, or you might hear, buy, borrow, never sell. They all mean the same thing. I'm calling it refi for life. Let me give you a simple refi for life. Example, using conservative assumptions, say that today you put a total of 200k down to control $1 million worth of rental property. Your initial loan balance is 800k we'll just say your cash flow is zero. Your property is appreciated 6% per year. After 10 years, your million dollars of property, growing at 6% annually, is worth almost $1.8 million if you refinance a 75% loan to value your new loan, amount is 1.3 5 million you pay off the original 800k loan, that leaves you with raw. 550k of cash out refinance proceeds. Congratulations, you got a windfall, and your 550k is tax, free loan money to you not income, because the IRS says debt is not income, therefore it's not taxed. Yes, and you heard that right. You can do whatever you want with those funds. What you've now done is you pulled out more than two and a half times your original 200k investment. And yes, while you still own the property, you continue to hold this appreciating asset. Tenants keep paying down your debt over time, and inflation keeps working in your favor, all right, and remember, that's only what you did at the 10 year mark. You are not done. It just keeps getting better. Fast forward five more years to the 15 year mark, at 6% appreciation continuing your original Million Dollar Portfolio is now worth about $2.4 million at 75% loan to value that property supports total debt of roughly $1.8 million at this point, your existing loan balance from the prior refinance, it's still that 1.3 5 million so you pay it off with a new loan. This allows you to extract an additional 450k of tax free cash. So add it up. This means at the 10 year mark, you got 550k and then here, at the 15 year mark, you got another 450k across your two refinances combined, you have now pull out a cool million dollars in tax free loan proceeds. That's nearly $1 million of liquid, usable capital from an original 200k investment that you made 15 years ago, without you ever selling the property. You still own. What's worth now $2.4 million worth of property, you've got the million liquid and you still have not triggered any tax at all. So at this stage, you can just live off your million dollars of refinance proceeds, or you can choose to reinvest it into new assets. Or you can selectively pay down your debt to increase your cash flow, or you can simply hold and let inflation continue shrinking the real value of your loans, and let inflation continue to make your properties go up in price, then down the road when you eventually die, your heirs receive a step up in basis largely eliminating capital gains tax. That is just amazing. That is refi for life in plain English. So that is the third of four exit strategies that I'm sharing with you here today. And understand there are a few caveats here. I only went to the 15 year mark, you can keep doing it every five years. Beyond that, it just keeps getting better as leverage compounds the value of what you own. Now I kept it simple for learning purposes in an audio format with you here, you're probably going to have even more equity than those numbers I gave you because I didn't even include the principal pay down that your tenants make for you.    Keith Weinhold  28:26   And let's discuss a few more pros and cons of this refi for life plan. The pros are that you've borrowed, and you've done that with perhaps a home equity line of credit, home equity loan or a second mortgage, you borrowed against the property in perpetuity and get tax free cash. Interest paid on the amount borrowed is tax deductible too. If you don't have enough tax advantages, there's also that you've got zero property sale, transaction friction or risk, you pass along the value of your home or portfolio to heirs on a stepped up basis. What that means, in essence, is when you pass away your depreciation recapture and your capital gains are wiped out, that's what a stepped up basis means. Okay, those were the pros, the cons, the downsides of doing this, and there aren't very many, but it's that it does not get you out of property ownership while you're still alive. If that's what you're looking for, your property cash flow gets reduced when you do a refi because you have a new debt service obligation. However, you've also got incremental rent increases throughout time that could offset that. And the other thing is, think about your heirs. Sometimes heirs find it challenging to divide homes among themselves, so your heirs need to be pretty well educated on related real estate and tax principles. So those are the cons of refi for Life. We're talking about four distinct access strategies for your investment real estate today on get rich education podcast episode 589 I'm your host, Keith Weinhold    Keith Weinhold  30:09   and the fourth way, the least understood and least utilized way, is known as the 721 exchange. And I want to thank a different GRE listener named Nate in California in his acquire to retire blog. It's worth checking out. I want to thank Nate for his contribution here. Nate heard the GRE episode last year about 62 year old. Listener Mark's desire to sell, and that's what got Nate to write in about the 721 exchange, yes, just like the 1031 exchange is named for that particular section of the IRS tax code, it's just the same with the 721 and of all four methods we're discussing today, it's the only one of the four that I have not done myself. So I have studied it how the 721 exchange works is that say you have a case where you're a rental property owner and you realize that you just don't want the hassles of landlording, but you like the financial benefit that the ownership gives you. What you can do is sell your home to a partnership and receive shares in that partnership. The 721 exchange rules stipulate that this is not a taxable event, and therefore no capital gains tax or depreciation recapture are due. Now that you're an owner in the partnership, you still get the benefits of owning the property, like appreciation and cash flow and such, and you get these benefits across a greater number of properties in markets diversification, because you are a fractional owner in the other properties that are in the partnership, not only your own. And when you eventually pass away, your shares are stepped up in basis and can be distributed equally to heirs. And see it is surely easier to divide shares among, say, four children than it is to divide your 31 rental houses among four children, because your four children are all going to have different goals and varying degrees of financial savvy. So the 721 exchange really is a great estate planning tool as well. So you will have this partnership that makes an offer to buy your property. Section 721, of the IRS Code allows a property owner to contribute real estate to a partnership in exchange for partnership units. And of course, you are going to need to learn how to vet the partnership. Now let's look at some of the pros and cons of this. The upside the pros are that it gets you out of being a direct property owner, if that's just something down the road that you don't want to do anymore. No more repair requests or HOAs, property tax bills, insurance bills, vacancies or property improvements. And of course, the hedge against that, I favor using a property manager to take care of that for me, but that is a different topic. But in any case, you also defer paying capital gains tax and depreciation recapture by rolling your equity into a qualified real estate fund. Some more upsides of the 721 are that you get shares in the real estate fund that offers you continued cash flow and possible appreciation. There's often no need for you to pay to fix up or stage the property for sale, no agent commissions to pay. You diversify your risk across multiple markets and properties you get to contribute to, and you sort of become part of a like minded community of real estate investors, and you peripherally stay attached to your real estate, even though you're no longer the direct owner of it. Now, of course, being a direct owner of real estate is where you get both the profits and the control, but again, after a decade, or even 50 Years of direct ownership, you're just choosing to be done with that phase. So the 721 is a permanent solution. There's no sort of next decision, stress or risk. It is done. It is solved. But like I said, the shares are easy to divide among heirs compared to a portfolio of homes. All right, how about the cons the negative of a 721 exchange? Well, you're going to forfeit the ability to borrow against your asset, the refi for life plan that I talked about in the third way you can sell your property. Also you're going to have to pay some onboarding fees or some management fees to the partnership, and you're going to lose future 1031 exchange availability. And that is it. That is the 721 exchange. Again, I want to thank GRE listener, Nate from California, for reaching out to the show, and he's got a great blog. That's what got me to study the 721 exchange some more. This can happen with an up rate. You've probably heard of a REIT before, really.   Keith Weinhold  35:00   Estate Investment Trust and upreet, up r, e, i, t, that is in umbrella partnership. REIT, as investors, we acquire and hold real estate for the long term because it provides those real estate pays five ways, benefits of appreciation, cash flow, ROA, tax benefits and inflation profiting. But as you begin with the end in mind, it's going to be aware of your options so that you can optimize that inevitable exit of yours down the row. To summarize what you've learned so far on this segment of the show is that there are four viable exit strategies for real estate investors, the straight sale, the 1031, tax deferred exchange, refi for life, which isn't a sale at all. It's a series of cash out refis, and finally, the 721 exchange, where you sell to a partnership, all with their various pros and cons. So some really good options for you. You can look up Ridge lending group, if you want to do a cash out refi on your investment property, they're very well versed in how to do those things. That was the third strategy, the refi for life. What do I personally recommend that you do? Well, I don't know your situation, but I can just tell you what I do myself, and that is generally, if I like a property, I keep doing the refi for life thing, continued cash out refinances, and I just keep holding onto the property and enjoying that tax free cash. That's if I like a property. If I don't like a property, I will be more likely to 1031 exchange it up into something larger, and when I'm older and done being a direct real estate investor, that's time. I'll probably take a close look at a 721, exchange and see if it's right for me at that time. How can you learn more about these four exit strategies and what professional parties might you want to use to help facilitate it? Well, it is the same place that you get free coaching from us, and it's also the same place where you find just the right next investment property so that you're going to have something to sell in future decades. That is it gre investmentcoach.com that's free consultation with our coaches at greinvestmentcoach.com   Keith Weinhold  37:19   I'm Keith Weinhold, thanks for being here, but you weren't here for me. You were here for you. Don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 1  37:29   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  37:57   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get richeducation.com you.  

What if the most transformative thing you can do for your writing craft and author business is to face what you fear? How can you can find gold in your Shadow in the year ahead? In this episode, I share chapters from Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words. In the intro, curated book boxes from Bridgerton's Julia Quinn; Google's agentic shopping, and powering Apple's Siri; ChatGPT Ads; and Claude CoWork. Balancing Certainty and Uncertainty [MoonShots with Tony Robbins]; and three trends for authors with me and Orna Ross [Self-Publishing with ALLi Podcast]; plus, Bones of the Deep, Business for Authors, and Indie Author Lab. This show is supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn  Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-winning, New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of thrillers, dark fantasy, and memoir as J.F. Penn. She's also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker. What is the Shadow? The ‘creative wound' and the Shadow in writing The Shadow in traditional publishing The Shadow in self-publishing or being an indie author The Shadow in work The Shadow in money You can find Writing the Shadow in all formats on all stores, as well as special edition, workbook and bundles at www.TheCreativePenn.com/shadowbook Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words The following chapters are excerpted from Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words by Joanna Penn. Introduction. What is the Shadow? “How can I be substantial if I do not cast a shadow? I must have a dark side also if I am to be whole.” —C.G. Jung, Modern Man in Search of a Soul We all have a Shadow side and it is the work of a lifetime to recognise what lies within and spin that base material into gold. Think of it as a seedling in a little pot that you're given when you're young. It's a bit misshapen and weird, not something you would display in your living room, so you place it in a dark corner of the basement. You don't look at it for years. You almost forget about it. Then one day you notice tendrils of something wild poking up through the floorboards. They're ugly and don't fit with your Scandi-minimalist interior design. You chop the tendrils away and pour weedkiller on what's left, trying to hide the fact that they were ever there. But the creeping stems keep coming. At some point, you know you have to go down there and face the wild thing your seedling has become. When you eventually pluck up enough courage to go down into the basement, you discover that the plant has wound its roots deep into the foundations of your home. Its vines weave in and out of the cracks in the walls, and it has beautiful flowers and strange fruit. It holds your world together. Perhaps you don't need to destroy the wild tendrils. Perhaps you can let them wind up into the light and allow their rich beauty to weave through your home. It will change the look you have so carefully cultivated, but maybe that's just what the place needs. The Shadow in psychology Carl Gustav Jung was a Swiss psychologist and the founder of analytical psychology. He described the Shadow as an unconscious aspect of the human personality, those parts of us that don't match up to what is expected of us by family and society, or to our own ideals. The Shadow is not necessarily evil or illegal or immoral, although of course it can be. It's also not necessarily caused by trauma, abuse, or any other severely damaging event, although again, it can be. It depends on the individual. What is in your Shadow is based on your life and your experiences, as well as your culture and society, so it will be different for everyone. Psychologist Connie Zweig, in The Inner Work of Age, explains, “The Shadow is that part of us that lies beneath or behind the light of awareness. It contains our rejected, unacceptable traits and feelings. It contains our hidden gifts and talents that have remained unexpressed or unlived. As Jung put it, the essence of the Shadow is pure gold.” To further illustrate the concept, Robert Bly, in A Little Book on the Human Shadow,uses the following metaphor: “When we are young, we carry behind us an invisible bag, into which we stuff any feelings, thoughts, or behaviours that bring disapproval or loss of love—anger, tears, neediness, laziness. By the time we go to school, our bags are already a mile long. In high school, our peer groups pressure us to stuff the bags with even more—individuality, sexuality, spontaneity, different opinions. We spend our life until we're twenty deciding which parts of ourselves to put into the bag and we spend the rest of our lives trying to get them out again.” As authors, we can use what's in the ‘bag' to enrich our writing — but only if we can access it. My intention with this book is to help you venture into your Shadow and bring some of what's hidden into the light and into your words. I'll reveal aspects of my Shadow in these pages but ultimately, this book is about you. Your Shadow is unique. There may be elements we share, but much will be different. Each chapter has questions for you to consider that may help you explore at least the edges of your Shadow, but it's not easy. As Jung said, “One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular.” But take heart, Creative. You don't need courage when things are easy. You need it when you know what you face will be difficult, but you do it anyway. We are authors. We know how to do hard things. We turn ideas into books. We manifest thoughts into ink on paper. We change lives with our writing. First, our own, then other people's. It's worth the effort to delve into Shadow, so I hope you will join me on the journey. The creative wound and the Shadow in writing “Whatever pain you can't get rid of, make it your creative offering.” —Susan Cain, Bittersweet  The more we long for something, the more extreme our desire, the more likely it is to have a Shadow side. For those of us who love books, the author life may well be a long-held dream and thus, it is filled with Shadow. Books have long been objects of desire, power, and authority. They hold a mythic status in our lives. We escaped into stories as children; we studied books at school and college; we read them now for escape and entertainment, education and inspiration. We collect beautiful books to put on our shelves. We go to them for solace and answers to the deepest questions of life. Writers are similarly held in high esteem. They shape culture, win literary prizes, give important speeches, and are quoted in the mainstream media. Their books are on the shelves in libraries and bookstores. Writers are revered, held up as rare, talented creatures made separate from us by their brilliance and insight. For bibliophile children, books were everything and to write one was a cherished dream. To become an author? Well, that would mean we might be someone special, someone worthy. Perhaps when you were young, you thought the dream of being a writer was possible — then you told someone about it. That's probably when you heard the first criticism of such a ridiculous idea, the first laughter, the first dismissal. So you abandoned the dream, pushed the idea of being a writer into the Shadow, and got on with your life. Or if it wasn't then, it came later, when you actually put pen to paper and someone — a parent, teacher, partner, or friend, perhaps even a literary agent or publisher, someone whose opinion you valued — told you it was worthless. Here are some things you might have heard: Writing is a hobby. Get a real job. You're not good enough. You don't have any writing talent. You don't have enough education. You don't know what you're doing. Your writing is derivative / unoriginal / boring / useless / doesn't make sense. The genre you write in is dead / worthless / unacceptable / morally wrong / frivolous / useless.  Who do you think you are? No one would want to read what you write. You can't even use proper grammar, so how could you write a whole book? You're wasting your time. You'll never make it as a writer. You shouldn't write those things (or even think about those things). Why don't you write something nice? Insert other derogatory comment here! Mark Pierce describes the effect of this experience in his book The Creative Wound, which “occurs when an event, or someone's actions or words, pierce you, causing a kind of rift in your soul. A comment—even offhand and unintentional—is enough to cause one.” He goes on to say that such words can inflict “damage to the core of who we are as creators. It is an attack on our artistic identity, resulting in us believing that whatever we make is somehow tainted or invalid, because shame has convinced us there is something intrinsically tainted or invalid about ourselves.” As adults, we might brush off such wounds, belittling them as unimportant in the grand scheme of things. We might even find ourselves saying the same words to other people. After all, it's easier to criticise than to create. But if you picture your younger self, bright eyed as you lose yourself in your favourite book, perhaps you might catch a glimpse of what you longed for before your dreams were dashed on the rocks of other people's reality. As Mark Pierce goes on to say, “A Creative Wound has the power to delay our pursuits—sometimes for years—and it can even derail our lives completely… Anything that makes us feel ashamed of ourselves or our work can render us incapable of the self-expression we yearn for.” This is certainly what happened to me, and it took decades to unwind. Your creative wounds will differ to mine but perhaps my experience will help you explore your own. To be clear, your Shadow may not reside in elements of horror as mine do, but hopefully you can use my example to consider where your creative wounds might lie. “You shouldn't write things like that.” It happened at secondary school around 1986 or 1987, so I would have been around eleven or twelve years old. English was one of my favourite subjects and the room we had our lessons in looked out onto a vibrant garden. I loved going to that class because it was all about books, and they were always my favourite things. One day, we were asked to write a story. I can't remember the specifics of what the teacher asked us to write, but I fictionalised a recurring nightmare. I stood in a dark room. On one side, my mum and my brother, Rod, were tied up next to a cauldron of boiling oil, ready to be thrown in. On the other side, my dad and my little sister, Lucy, were threatened with decapitation by men with machetes. I had to choose who would die. I always woke up, my heart pounding, before I had to choose. Looking back now, it clearly represented an internal conflict about having to pick sides between the two halves of my family. Not an unexpected issue from a child of divorce. Perhaps these days, I might have been sent to the school counsellor, but it was the eighties and I don't think we even had such a thing. Even so, the meaning of the story isn't the point. It was the reaction to it that left scars. “You shouldn't write things like that,” my teacher said, and I still remember her look of disappointment, even disgust. Certainly judgment. She said my writing was too dark. It wasn't a proper story. It wasn't appropriate for the class. As if horrible things never happened in stories — or in life. As if literature could not include dark tales. As if the only acceptable writing was the kind she approved of. We were taught The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie that year, which says a lot about the type of writing considered appropriate. Or perhaps the issue stemmed from the school motto, “So hateth she derknesse,” from Chaucer's The Legend of Good Women: “For fear of night, so she hates the darkness.” I had won a scholarship to a private girls' school, and their mission was to turn us all into proper young ladies. Horror was never on the curriculum. Perhaps if my teacher had encouraged me to write my darkness back then, my nightmares would have dissolved on the page. Perhaps if we had studied Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, or H.P. Lovecraft stories, or Bram Stoker's Dracula, I could have embraced the darker side of literature earlier in my life. My need to push darker thoughts into my Shadow was compounded by my (wonderful) mum's best intentions. We were brought up on the principles of The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale and she tried to shield me and my brother from anything harmful or horrible. We weren't allowed to watch TV much, and even the British school drama Grange Hill was deemed inappropriate. So much of what I've achieved is because my mum instilled in me a “can do” attitude that anything is possible. I'm so grateful to her for that. (I love you, Mum!) But all that happy positivity, my desire to please her, to be a good girl, to make my teachers proud, and to be acceptable to society, meant that I pushed my darker thoughts into Shadow. They were inappropriate. They were taboo. They must be repressed, kept secret, and I must be outwardly happy and positive at all times. You cannot hold back the darkness “The night is dark and full of terrors.” —George R.R. Martin, A Storm of Swords It turned out that horror was on the curriculum, much of it in the form of educational films we watched during lessons. In English Literature, we watched Romeo drink poison and Juliet stab herself in Zeffirelli's Romeo and Juliet. In Religious Studies, we watched Jesus beaten, tortured, and crucified in The Greatest Story Ever Told, and learned of the variety of gruesome ways that Christian saints were martyred. In Classical Civilisation, we watched gladiators slaughter each other in Spartacus. In Sex Education at the peak of the AIDS crisis in the mid-'80s, we were told of the many ways we could get infected and die. In History, we studied the Holocaust with images of skeletal bodies thrown into mass graves, medical experiments on humans, and grainy videos of marching soldiers giving the Nazi salute. One of my first overseas school field trips was to the World War I battlegrounds of Flanders Fields in Belgium, where we studied the inhuman conditions of the trenches, walked through mass graves, and read war poetry by candlelight. As John McCrae wrote: We are the Dead. Short days agoWe lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,Loved and were loved, and now we lie, In Flanders fields. Did the teachers not realise how deeply a sensitive teenager might feel the darkness of that place? Or have I always been unusual in that places of blood echo deep inside me? And the horrors kept coming. We lived in Bristol, England back then and I learned at school how the city had been part of the slave trade, its wealth built on the backs of people stolen from their homes, sold, and worked to death in the colonies. I had been at school for a year in Malawi, Africa and imagined the Black people I knew drowning, being beaten, and dying on those ships. In my teenage years, the news was filled with ethnic cleansing, mass rape, and massacres during the Balkan wars, and images of bodies hacked apart during the Rwandan genocide. Evil committed by humans against other humans was not a historical aberration. I'm lucky and I certainly acknowledge my privilege. Nothing terrible or horrifying has happened to me — but bad things certainly happen to others. I wasn't bullied or abused. I wasn't raped or beaten or tortured. But you don't have to go through things to be afraid of them, and for your imagination to conjure the possibility of them. My mum doesn't read my fiction now as it gives her nightmares (Sorry, Mum!). I know she worries that somehow she's responsible for my darkness, but I've had a safe and (mostly) happy life, for which I'm truly grateful. But the world is not an entirely safe and happy place, and for a sensitive child with a vivid imagination, the world is dark and scary. It can be brutal and violent, and bad things happen, even to good people. No parent can shield their child from the reality of the world. They can only help them do their best to live in it, develop resilience, and find ways to deal with whatever comes. Story has always been a way that humans have used to learn how to live and deal with difficult times. The best authors, the ones that readers adore and can't get enough of, write their darkness into story to channel their experience, and help others who fear the same. In an interview on writing the Shadow on The Creative Penn Podcast, Michaelbrent Collings shared how he incorporated a personally devastating experience into his writing:  “My wife and I lost a child years back, and that became the root of one of my most terrifying books, Apparition. It's not terrifying because it's the greatest book of all time, but just the concept that there's this thing out there… like a demon, and it consumes the blood and fear of the children, and then it withdraws and consumes the madness of the parents… I wrote that in large measure as a way of working through what I was experiencing.” I've learned much from Michaelbrent. I've read many of his (excellent) books and he's been on my podcast multiple times talking about his depression and mental health issues, as well as difficulties in his author career. Writing darkness is not in Michaelbrent's Shadow and only he can say what lies there for him. But from his example, and from that of other authors, I too learned how to write my Shadow into my books. Twenty-three years after that English lesson, in November 2009, I did NaNoWriMo, National Novel Writing Month, and wrote five thousand words of what eventually became Stone of Fire, my first novel. In the initial chapter, I burned a nun alive on the ghats of Varanasi on the banks of the Ganges River. I had watched the bodies burn by night on pyres from a boat bobbing in the current a few years before, and the image was still crystal clear in my mind. The only way to deal with how it made me feel about death was to write about it — and since then, I've never stopped writing. Returning to the nightmare from my school days, I've never had to choose between the two halves of my family, but the threat of losing them remains a theme in my fiction. In my ARKANE thriller series, Morgan Sierra will do anything to save her sister and her niece. Their safety drives her to continue to fight against evil. Our deepest fears emerge in our writing, and that's the safest place for them. I wish I'd been taught how to turn my nightmares into words back at school, but at least now I've learned to write my Shadow onto the page. I wish the same for you. The Shadow in traditional publishing If becoming an author is your dream, then publishing a book is deeply entwined with that. But as Mark Pierce says in The Creative Wound, “We feel pain the most where it matters the most… Desire highlights whatever we consider to be truly significant.” There is a lot of desire around publishing for those of us who love books! It can give you: Validation that your writing is good enough Status and credibility Acceptance by an industry held in esteem  The potential of financial reward and critical acclaim Support from a team of professionals who know how to make fantastic books A sense of belonging to an elite community Pride in achieving a long-held goal, resulting in a confidence boost and self-esteem Although not guaranteed, traditional publishing can give you all these things and more, but as with everything, there is a potential Shadow side. Denying it risks the potential of being disillusioned, disappointed, and even damaged. But remember, forewarned is forearmed, as the saying goes. Preparation can help you avoid potential issues and help you feel less alone if you encounter them. The myth of success… and the reality of experience There is a pervasive myth of success in the traditional publishing industry, perpetuated by media reporting on brand name and breakout authors, those few outliers whose experience is almost impossible to replicate. Because of such examples, many new traditionally published authors think that their first book will hit the top of the bestseller charts or win an award, as well as make them a million dollars — or at least a big chunk of cash. They will be able to leave their job, write in a beautiful house overlooking the ocean, and swan around the world attending conferences, while writing more bestselling books. It will be a charmed life. But that is not the reality. Perhaps it never was. Even so, the life of a traditionally published author represents a mythic career with the truth hidden behind a veil of obscurity. In April 2023, The Bookseller in the UK reported that “more than half of authors (54%) responding to a survey on their experiences of publishing their debut book have said the process negatively affected their mental health. Though views were mixed, just 22%… described a positive experience overall… Among the majority who said they had a negative experience of debut publication, anxiety, stress, depression and ‘lowered' self-esteem were cited, with lack of support, guidance or clear and professional communication from their publisher among the factors that contributed.” Many authors who have negative experiences around publishing will push them into the Shadow with denial or self-blame, preferring to keep the dream alive. They won't talk about things in public as this may negatively affect their careers, but private discussions are often held in the corners of writing conferences or social media groups online. Some of the issues are as follows: Repeated rejection by agents and publishers may lead to the author thinking they are not good enough as a writer, which can lead to feeling unworthy as a person. If an author gets a deal, the amount of advance and the name and status of the publisher compared to others create a hierarchy that impacts self-esteem. A deal for a book may be much lower than an author might have been expecting, with low or no advance, and the resulting experience with the publisher beneath expectations. The launch process may be disappointing, and the book may appear without fanfare, with few sales and no bestseller chart position. In The Bookseller report, one author described her launch day as “a total wasteland… You have expectations about what publication day will be like, but in reality, nothing really happens.” The book may receive negative reviews by critics or readers or more publicly on social media, which can make an author feel attacked. The book might not sell as well as expected, and the author may feel like it's their fault. Commercial success can sometimes feel tied to self-worth and an author can't help but compare their sales to others, with resulting embarrassment or shame. The communication from the publisher may be less than expected. One author in The Bookseller report said, “I was shocked by the lack of clarity and shared information and the cynicism that underlies the superficial charm of this industry.” There is often more of a focus on debut authors in publishing houses, so those who have been writing and publishing in the midlist for years can feel ignored and undervalued. In The Bookseller report, 48 percent of authors reported “their publisher supported them for less than a year,” with one saying, “I got no support and felt like a commodity, like the team had moved on completely to the next book.” If an author is not successful enough, the next deal may be lower than the last, less effort is made with marketing, and they may be let go. In The Bookseller report, “six authors—debut and otherwise—cited being dropped by their publisher, some with no explanation.” Even if everything goes well and an author is considered successful by others, they may experience imposter syndrome, feeling like a fraud when speaking at conferences or doing book signings. And the list goes on … All these things can lead to feelings of shame, inadequacy, and embarrassment; loss of status in the eyes of peers; and a sense of failure if a publishing career is not successful enough. The author feels like it's their fault, like they weren't good enough — although, of course, the reality is that the conditions were not right at the time. A failure of a book is not a failure of the person, but it can certainly feel like it! When you acknowledge the Shadow, it loses its power Despite all the potential negatives of traditional publishing, if you know what could happen, you can mitigate them. You can prepare yourself for various scenarios and protect yourself from potential fall-out. It's clear from The Bookseller report that too many authors have unrealistic expectations of the industry. But publishers are businesses, not charities. It's not their job to make you feel good as an author. It's their job to sell books and pay you. The best thing they can do is to continue to be a viable business so they can keep putting books on the shelves and keep paying authors, staff, and company shareholders. When you license your creative work to a publisher, you're giving up control of your intellectual property in exchange for money and status. Bring your fears and issues out of the Shadow, acknowledge them, and deal with them early, so they do not get pushed down and re-emerge later in blame and bitterness. Educate yourself on the business of publishing. Be clear on what you want to achieve with any deal. Empower yourself as an author, take responsibility for your career, and you will have a much better experience. The Shadow in self-publishing or being an indie author Self-publishing, or being an independent (indie) author, can be a fantastic, pro-active choice for getting your book into the world. Holding your first book in your hand and saying “I made this” is pretty exciting, and even after more than forty books, I still get excited about seeing ideas in my head turn into a physical product in the world. Self-publishing can give an author: Creative control over what to write, editorial and cover design choices, when and how often to publish, and how to market Empowerment over your author career and the ability to make choices that impact success without asking for permission Ownership and control of intellectual property assets, resulting in increased opportunity around licensing and new markets Independence and the potential for recurring income for the long term Autonomy and flexibility around timelines, publishing options, and the ability to easily pivot into new genres and business models Validation based on positive reader reviews and money earned Personal growth and learning through the acquisition of new skills, resulting in a boost in confidence and self-esteem A sense of belonging to an active and vibrant community of indie authors around the world Being an indie author can give you all this and more, but once again, there is a Shadow side and preparation can help you navigate potential issues. The myth of success… and the reality of experience As with traditional publishing, the indie author world has perpetuated a myth of success in the example of the breakout indie author like E.L. James with Fifty Shades of Grey, Hugh Howey with Wool, or Andy Weir with The Martian. The emphasis on financial success is also fuelled online by authors who share screenshots showing six-figure months or seven-figure years, without sharing marketing costs and other outgoings, or the amount of time spent on the business. Yes, these can inspire some, but it can also make others feel inadequate and potentially lead to bad choices about how to publish and market based on comparison. The indie author world is full of just as much ego and a desire for status and money as traditional publishing. This is not a surprise! Most authors, regardless of publishing choices, are a mix of massive ego and chronic self-doubt. We are human, so the same issues will re-occur. A different publishing method doesn't cure all ills. Some of the issues are as follows: You learn everything you need to know about writing and editing, only to find that you need to learn a whole new set of skills in order to self-publish and market your book. This can take a lot of time and effort you did not expect, and things change all the time so you have to keep learning. Being in control of every aspect of the publishing process, from writing to cover design to marketing, can be overwhelming, leading to indecision, perfectionism, stress, and even burnout as you try to do all the things. You try to find people to help, but building your team is a challenge, and working with others has its own difficulties. People say negative things about self-publishing that may arouse feelings of embarrassment or shame. These might be little niggles, but they needle you, nonetheless. You wonder whether you made the right choice. You struggle with self-doubt and if you go to an event with traditional published authors, you compare yourself to them and feel like an imposter. Are you good enough to be an author if a traditional publisher hasn't chosen you? Is it just vanity to self-publish? Are your books unworthy? Even though you worked with a professional editor, you still get one-star reviews and you hate criticism from readers. You wonder whether you're wasting your time. You might be ripped off by an author services company who promise the world, only to leave you with a pile of printed books in your garage and no way to sell them. When you finally publish your book, it languishes at the bottom of the charts while other authors hit the top of the list over and over, raking in the cash while you are left out of pocket. You don't admit to over-spending on marketing as it makes you ashamed. You resist book marketing and make critical comments about writers who embrace it. You believe that quality rises to the top and if a book is good enough, people will buy it anyway. This can lead to disappointment and disillusionment when you launch your book and it doesn't sell many copies because nobody knows about it. You try to do what everyone advises, but you still can't make decent money as an author. You're jealous of other authors' success and put it down to them ‘selling out' or writing things you can't or ‘using AI' or ‘using a ghostwriter' or having a specific business model you consider impossible to replicate. And the list goes on… When you acknowledge the Shadow, it loses its power Being in control of your books and your author career is a double-edged sword. Traditionally published authors can criticise their publishers or agents or the marketing team or the bookstores or the media, but indie authors have to take responsibility for it all. Sure, we can blame ‘the algorithms' or social media platforms, or criticise other authors for having more experience or more money to invest in marketing, or attribute their success to writing in a more popular genre — but we also know there are always people who do well regardless of the challenges. Once more, we're back to acknowledging and integrating the Shadow side of our choices. We are flawed humans. There will always be good times and bad, and difficulties to offset the high points. This too shall pass, as the old saying goes. I know that being an indie author has plenty of Shadow. I've been doing this since 2008 and despite the hard times, I'm still here. I'm still writing. I'm still publishing. This life is not for everyone, but it's my choice. You must make yours. The Shadow in work You work hard. You make a living. Nothing wrong with that attitude, right? It's what we're taught from an early age and, like so much of life, it's not a problem until it goes to extremes. Not achieving what you want to? Work harder. Can't get ahead? Work harder. Not making a good enough living? Work harder. People who don't work hard are lazy. They don't deserve handouts or benefits. People who don't work hard aren't useful, so they are not valued members of our culture and community. But what about the old or the sick, the mentally ill, or those with disabilities? What about children? What about the unemployed? The under-employed? What about those who are — or will be — displaced by technology, those called “the useless class” by historian Yuval Noah Harari in his book Homo Deus? What if we become one of these in the future? Who am I if I cannot work? The Shadow side of my attitude to work became clear when I caught COVID in the summer of 2021. I was the sickest I'd ever been. I spent two weeks in bed unable to even think properly, and six weeks after that, I was barely able to work more than an hour a day before lying in the dark and waiting for my energy to return. I was limited in what I could do for another six months after that. At times, I wondered if I would ever get better. Jonathan kept urging me to be patient and rest. But I don't know how to rest. I know how to work and how to sleep. I can do ‘active rest,' which usually involves walking a long way or traveling somewhere interesting, but those require a stronger mind and body than I had during those months. It struck me that even if I recovered from the virus, I had glimpsed my future self. One day, I will be weak in body and mind. If I'm lucky, that will be many years away and hopefully for a short time before I die — but it will happen. I am an animal. I will die. My body and mind will pass on and I will be no more. Before then I will be weak. Before then, I will be useless. Before then, I will be a burden. I will not be able to work… But who am I if I cannot work? What is the point of me? I can't answer these questions right now, because although I recognise them as part of my Shadow, I've not progressed far enough to have dealt with them entirely. My months of COVID gave me some much-needed empathy for those who cannot work, even if they want to. We need to reframe what work is as a society, and value humans for different things, especially as technology changes what work even means. That starts with each of us. “Illness, affliction of body and soul, can be life-altering. It has the potential to reveal the most fundamental conflict of the human condition: the tension between our infinite, glorious dreams and desires and our limited, vulnerable, decaying physicality.” —Connie Zweig, The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul The Shadow in money In the Greek myth, King Midas was a wealthy ruler who loved gold above all else. His palace was adorned with golden sculptures and furniture, and he took immense pleasure in his riches. Yet, despite his vast wealth, he yearned for more. After doing a favour for Dionysus, the god of wine and revelry, Midas was granted a single wish. Intoxicated by greed, he wished that everything he touched would turn to gold — and it was so. At first, it was a lot of fun. Midas turned everything else in his palace to gold, even the trees and stones of his estate. After a morning of turning things to gold, he fancied a spot of lunch. But when he tried to eat, the food and drink turned to gold in his mouth. He became thirsty and hungry — and increasingly desperate. As he sat in despair on his golden throne, his beloved young daughter ran to comfort him. For a moment, he forgot his wish — and as she wrapped her arms around him and kissed his cheek, she turned into a golden statue, frozen in precious metal. King Midas cried out to the gods to forgive him, to reverse the wish. He renounced his greed and gave away all his wealth, and his daughter was returned to life. The moral of the story: Wealth and greed are bad. In Charles Dickens's A Christmas Carol, Ebenezer Scrooge is described as a “squeezing, wrenching, grasping, scraping, clutching, covetous, old sinner.” He's wealthy but does not share, considering Christmas spending to be frivolous and giving to charity to be worthless. He's saved by a confrontation with his lonely future and becomes a generous man and benefactor of the poor. Wealth is good if you share it with others. The gospel of Matthew, chapter 25: 14-30, tells the parable of the bags of gold, in which a rich man goes on a journey and entrusts his servants with varying amounts of gold. On his return, the servants who multiplied the gold through their efforts and investments are rewarded, while the one who merely returned the gold with no interest is punished: “For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.” Making money is good, making more money is even better. If you can't make any money, you don't deserve to have any. Within the same gospel, in Matthew 19:24, Jesus encounters a wealthy man and tells him to sell all his possessions and give the money to the poor, which the man is unable to do. Jesus says, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” Wealth is bad. Give it all away and you'll go to heaven. With all these contradictory messages, no wonder we're so conflicted about money! How do you think and feel about money? While money is mostly tied to our work, it's far more than just a transactional object for most people. It's loaded with complex symbolism and judgment handed down by family, religion, and culture. You are likely to find elements of Shadow by examining your attitudes around money. Consider which of the following statements resonate with you or write your own. Money stresses me out. I don't want to talk about it or think about it. Some people hoard money, so there is inequality. Rich people are bad and we should take away their wealth and give it to the poor.  I can never make enough money to pay the bills, or to give my family what I want to provide. Money doesn't grow on trees.  It's wasteful to spend money as you might need it later, so I'm frugal and don't spend money unless absolutely necessary. It is better and more ethical to be poor than to be rich. I want more money. I read books and watch TV shows about rich people because I want to live like that. Sometimes I spend too much on things for a glimpse of what that might be like.  I buy lottery tickets and dream of winning all that money.  I'm jealous of people who have money. I want more of it and I resent those who have it. I'm no good with money. I don't like to look at my bank statement or credit card statement. I live off my overdraft and I'm in debt. I will never earn enough to get out of debt and start saving, so I don't think too much about it. I don't know enough about money. Talking about it makes me feel stupid, so I just ignore it. People like me aren't educated about money.  I need to make more money. If I can make lots of money, then people will look up to me. If I make lots of money, I will be secure, nothing can touch me, I will be safe.  I never want to be poor. I would be ashamed to be poor. I will never go on benefits. My net worth is my self worth. Money is good. We have the best standard of living in history because of the increase in wealth over time. Even the richest kings of the past didn't have what many middle-class people have today in terms of access to food, water, technology, healthcare, education, and more. The richest people give the most money to the poor through taxation and charity, as well as through building companies that employ people and invent new things. The very richest give away much of their fortunes. They provide far more benefit to the world than the poor.  I love money. Money loves me. Money comes easily and quickly to me. I attract money in multiple streams of income. It flows to me in so many ways. I spend money. I invest money. I give money. I'm happy and grateful for all that I receive. The Shadow around money for authors in particular Many writers and other creatives have issues around money and wealth. How often have you heard the following, and which do you agree with? You can't make money with your writing. You'll be a poor author in a garret, a starving artist.  You can't write ‘good quality' books and make money. If you make money writing, you're a hack, you're selling out. You are less worthy than someone who writes only for the Muse. Your books are commercial, not artistic. If you spend money on marketing, then your books are clearly not good enough to sell on their own. My agent / publisher / accountant / partner deals with the money side. I like to focus on the creative side of things. My money story Note: This is not financial or investment advice. Please talk to a professional about your situation. I've had money issues over the years — haven't we all! But I have been through a (long) process to bring money out of my Shadow and into the light. There will always be more to discover, but hopefully my money story will help you, or at least give you an opportunity to reflect. Like most people, I didn't grow up with a lot of money. My parents started out as teachers, but later my mum — who I lived with, along with my brother — became a change management consultant, moving to the USA and earning a lot more. I'm grateful that she moved into business because her example changed the way I saw money and provided some valuable lessons. (1) You can change your circumstances by learning more and then applying that to leverage opportunity into a new job or career Mum taught English at a school in Bristol when we moved back from Malawi, Africa, in the mid '80s but I remember how stressful it was for her, and how little money she made. She wanted a better future for us all, so she took a year out to do a master's degree in management. In the same way, when I wanted to change careers and leave consulting to become an author, I spent time and money learning about the writing craft and the business of publishing. I still invest a considerable chunk on continuous learning, as this industry changes all the time. (2) You might have to downsize in order to leap forward The year my mum did her degree, we lived in the attic of another family's house; we ate a lot of one-pot casserole and our treat was having a Yorkie bar on the walk back from the museum. We wore hand-me-down clothes, and I remember one day at school when another girl said I was wearing her dress. I denied it, of course, but there in back of the dress was her name tag. I still remember her name and I can still feel that flush of shame and embarrassment. I was determined to never feel like that again. But what I didn't realize at the time was that I was also learning the power of downsizing. Mum got her degree and then a new job in management in Bristol. She bought a house, and we settled for a few years. I had lots of different jobs as a teenager. My favourite was working in the delicatessen because we got a free lunch made from delicious produce. After I finished A-levels, I went to the University of Oxford, and my mum and brother moved to the USA for further opportunities. I've downsized multiple times over the years, taking a step back in order to take a step forward. The biggest was in 2010 when I decided to leave consulting. Jonathan and I sold our three-bedroom house and investments in Brisbane, Australia, and rented a one-bedroom flat in London, so we could be debt-free and live on less while I built up a new career. It was a decade before we bought another house. (3) Comparison can be deadly: there will always be people with more money than you Oxford was an education in many ways and relevant to this chapter is how much I didn't know about things people with money took for granted. I learned about formal hall and wine pairings, and how to make a perfect gin and tonic. I ate smoked salmon for the first time. I learned how to fit in with people who had a lot more money than I did, and I definitely wanted to have money of my own to play with. (4) Income is not wealth You can earn lots but have nothing to show for it after years of working. I learned this in my first few years of IT consulting after university. I earned a great salary and then went contracting, earning even more money at a daily rate. I had a wonderful time. I traveled, ate and drank and generally made merry, but I always had to go back to the day job when the money ran out. I couldn't work out how I could ever stop this cycle. Then I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki, a book I still recommend, especially if you're from a family that values academic over financial education. I learned how to escape the rat race by building and/or accumulating assets that pay even when you're not working. It was a revelation! The ‘poor dad' in the book is a university professor. He knows so much about so many things, but he ends up poor as he did not educate himself about money. The ‘rich dad' has little formal education, but he knows about money and wealth because he learned about it, as we can do at any stage in our lives. (5) Not all investments suit every person, so find the right one for you Once I discovered the world of investing, I read all the books and did courses and in-person events. I joined communities and I up-skilled big time. Of course, I made mistakes and learned lots along the way. I tried property investing and renovated a couple of houses for rental (with more practical partners and skilled contractors). But while I could see that property investing might work for some people, I did not care enough about the details to make it work for me, and it was certainly not passive income. I tried other things. My first husband was a boat skipper and scuba diving instructor, so we started a charter. With the variable costs of fuel, the vagaries of New Zealand weather — and our divorce — it didn't last long! From all these experiments, I learned I wanted to run a business, but it needed to be online and not based on a physical location, physical premises, or other people. That was 2006, around the time that blogging started taking off and it became possible to make a living online. I could see the potential and a year later, the iPhone and the Amazon Kindle launched, which became the basis of my business as an author. (6) Boring, automatic saving and investing works best Between 2007 and 2011, I contracted in Australia, where they have compulsory superannuation contributions, meaning you have to save and invest a percentage of your salary or self-employed income. I'd never done that before, because I didn't understand it. I'd ploughed all my excess income into property or the business instead. But in Australia I didn't notice the money going out because it was automatic. I chose a particular fund and it auto-invested every month. The pot grew pretty fast since I didn't touch it, and years later, it's still growing. I discovered the power of compound interest and time in the market, both of which are super boring. This type of investing is not a get rich quick scheme. It's a slow process of automatically putting money into boring investments and doing that month in, month out, year in, year out, automatically for decades while you get on with your life. I still do this. I earn money as an author entrepreneur and I put a percentage of that into boring investments automatically every month. I also have a small amount which is for fun and higher risk investments, but mostly I'm a conservative, risk-averse investor planning ahead for the future. This is not financial advice, so I'm not giving any specifics. I have a list of recommended money books at www.TheCreativePenn.com/moneybooks if you want to learn more. Learning from the Shadow When I look back, my Shadow side around money eventually drove me to learn more and resulted in a better outcome (so far!). I was ashamed of being poor when I had to wear hand-me-down clothes at school. That drove a fear of not having any money, which partially explains my workaholism. I was embarrassed at Oxford because I didn't know how to behave in certain settings, and I wanted to be like the rich people I saw there. I spent too much money in my early years as a consultant because I wanted to experience a “rich” life and didn't understand saving and investing would lead to better things in the future. I invested too much in the wrong things because I didn't know myself well enough and I was trying to get rich quick so I could leave my job and ‘be happy.' But eventually, I discovered that I could grow my net worth with boring, long-term investments while doing a job I loved as an author entrepreneur. My only regret is that I didn't discover this earlier and put a percentage of my income into investments as soon as I started work. It took several decades to get started, but at least I did (eventually) start. My money story isn't over yet, and I keep learning new things, but hopefully my experience will help you reflect on your own and avoid the issue if it's still in Shadow. These chapters are excerpted from Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words by Joanna Penn  The post Writing The Shadow: The Creative Wound, Publishing, And Money, With Joanna Penn first appeared on The Creative Penn.

Learn the easiest way to double your prospecting numbers as Ray Higdon reveals key questions and proven scripts to boost your success. Discover the importance of follow-ups and how to take your audience on your journey for better engagement. Tune in now for practical tips that can transform your prospecting approach!   ——

Work with Jimmy & the Vreeland Capital Team to build a 20-Unit Portfolio that will get you the equivalent of a retirement account 3X faster with a third of the capital. Visit https://tinyurl.com/mainstreetpatriot... In this episode of The Real Estate Fast Pass, hosts Jimmy Vreeland and Susie Vreeland break down what 2026 really looks like for real estate investors—without the hype, fear, or coastal noise. Drawing directly from insights shared inside the latest Collective Genius meeting, Jimmy unpacks why the market has entered what he calls the Great Stall: a period of steady pricing, persistent housing shortages, and slower—but far more predictable—growth. While headlines focus on interest rates and dramatic market swings, the reality on the ground tells a very different story, especially in Midwest rental markets. Jimmy and Susie explain why new construction sitting on the market doesn't mean a crash is coming, how a multi-million-unit housing shortage continues to support long-term rental demand, and why the average first-time homebuyer age hitting 40 years old is a massive signal for landlords. They also share why builders are unlikely to solve the inventory problem anytime soon, why tenants are staying longer, and why stable, “boring” deals may offer the clearest path to consistent wealth in 2026 and beyond. If you're looking to invest with confidence—not headlines—this episode lays out exactly why slow, steady, and repeatable real estate might be the smartest move you can make. About Jimmy Vreeland Jimmy graduated from the United States Military Academy at West Point, spent 5 years as an Army Ranger, and deployed three times twice to Iraq and once to Afghanistan. On his last deployment, he read Rich Dad Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki which led him down the path of real estate investing. As his own portfolio grew, eventually he started a real estate investing business.  Since 2018 his team at Vreeland Capital has supplied over 100 houses a year to high performing, passive investors who want to work with his team and his team is now managing over 800 houses. Get in touch with Jimmy and his team at www.jimmyvreeland.com/getstartedinrealestate More about Jimmy Website: www.jimmyvreeland.com Linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/jimmy-vreeland Instagram: www.instagram.com/jimmyvreeland Facebook: www.facebook.com/JimmyVreeland Youtube: www.youtube.com/@JimmyVreelandC >>>>>>Get free access to the private Ranger Real Estate facebook group

We all love winners. We love hearing about the big wins and the perfect track records. It feels good. It feels safe. It instills us with a sense of trust. But I've been in business long enough to know that virtually all individuals who are long-term winners have had profound moments of failure from which they learned invaluable lessons. Those are the people I really want to hear from. They have the kind of knowledge we all need as we navigate through life. It's called wisdom. Surgeons have a saying: “If you've never had a complication, you haven't done enough surgery.” In my surgeon days, I had a handful of complications. Let me tell you—they are no fun. You stay up at night replaying things in your mind, trying to figure out how you could have done things differently—how you could have had a better outcome. Even when unavoidable, those complications teach you something you'll never get from textbooks. It's been no different for me when it comes to business and investing. But I take comfort in knowing that even the greatest investors of all time had their moments of failure and rose from the ashes stronger and wiser. Warren Buffett. Ray Dalio. Every big winner has a story of failure. And while it may be cliché to say that we learn best from mistakes, I truly believe it. The good news is that those mistakes don't have to be our own. Learning from other people's mistakes can be just as effective. This week's episode of the Wealth Formula Podcast is with Russell Gray—a guy many of you already know from his podcasting and radio career. Russ lived through 2008 up close. He took a beating, and he talks openly about what went wrong. But that period also changed the way he sees the world—in a good way. It changed how he thinks about risk, leverage, and what actually matters when things stop going up. That mindset is a big reason he's been successful since then. It's a conversation worth your time. Transcript Disclaimer: This transcript was generated by AI and may not be 100% accurate. If you notice any errors or corrections, please email us at phil@wealthformula.com.  If you let the debt run, at some point you fall into a debt trap where the interest on the outstanding debt consumes all of the available discretionary income, and then you’re borrowing just to service the debt. Welcome everybody. This is Buck Joffrey with the Wealth Formula Podcast coming to you from Montecito, California. Before we begin today, I wanna remind you there’s website associated with this. Podcast called wealthformula.com. It’s where you will go if you would like to, uh, become more, uh, ingrained with the community, including getting on some of our lists such as the Accredit Investor Club. Of course, it is a new year and there are new deal flows coming through. Lots of opportunities that you won’t see anywhere else if you are a, an accredit investor, which means you. Make at least $200,000 per year for the last couple years with a reasonable expectation of doing so in the future. That’s 300,000 if you’re filing jointly or you have a million dollars of net worth outside of your personal residence. If you, uh, meet those criteria, you are an accredited investor. Congratulations. You don’t have to apply for anything, whatever, but you do need to go to wealthformula.com. Sign up for the Accredited Investor Club, get onboarded. And all you do at that point is look at deal flow, and if nothing else, you’ll learn something. So check it out. And who doesn’t want to be part of a club? Now let’s talk, uh, a little bit about today’s show. You know, um, we all love winners, right? We love hearing about big wins, the perfect track record. It feels good. It feels safe, gives us a sense of trust. But the thing is, I’ve been in business long enough to know that virtually all individuals who are, what you would call long-term winners, have had profound moments of failure from which they learned, um, invaluable lessons. So those are the people that I really like to hear from. You know, they have the kind of knowledge we all need that as we navigate through all of life, and it’s called wisdom. Um, surgeons, as you know, I’m an ex surgeon. Have a saying, if you’ve never had a complication, you haven’t done enough surgery. Uh, in my surgery days, I certainly, you know, had a handful of complications just like anyone else who did a lot of surgery. And, and lemme tell you, there, there are no fun, right? So you stay up at night replying things in your mind, trying to figure out how you could have done things differently, how you could have had a better outcome. And sometimes you realize that those mistakes were unavoidable, but. You still learn something from them. And in these cases, you always learn something that you’re not gonna get from the textbooks, just from reading something. And you know what, it’s been no different for me when it comes to business and, and investing, but I, I take comfort in the fact, uh, that even the greatest investors of all time had their moments of failure and arose from the ashes stronger and wiser. All you have to do is look up stories of Warren Buffet and Ray Dalio. And Ray Dalio basically lost everything at one point, uh, because he, you know, he had a macro prediction that went completely south. But listen, uh, the, the point I’m trying to make here is that every big winner, every big winner I know of as a story of failure. And while it may be cliche to say, you know what we learned best from our mistakes, I, I truly believe that. But the good news is that those mistakes don’t have to be our own, right? So you can learn from other people’s mistakes as well, and that can be just as effective. Uh, so this week’s episode of Well, formula Podcast is featuring a guy that you may know. His name is Russell Gray. Russ, uh, has been around a long time, uh, in the podcasting world. And radio. You know, he talks a lot. He’s talked many times to me at least about living through 2008. And you know what that was like, the beating he took and, you know, what went wrong? Uh, you know, it’s, it’s something that he talks about because, you know, he’s a successful guy and that period in time changed. You know, the way he sees the world, the way in which he behaves in that world. How he thinks about things like risk and leverage and you know, what actually matters when things stop going up. Uh, it’s a mindset thing and it’s important. Um, and we also obviously talk about other things as well, such as, uh, Russ’s current take on the economy. Uh, so anyway, it’s a, a good conversation and it’s one that you’re gonna wanna listen to, and we’ll have that for you right after these messages. Wealth formula banking is an ingenious concept powered by whole life insurance, but instead of acting just as a safety net, the strategy supercharges your investments. First, you create a personal financial reservoir that grows at a compounding interest rate much higher than any bank savings account. As your money accumulates, you borrow from your own. Bank to invest in other cash flowing investments. Here’s the key. Even though you’ve borrowed money at a simple interest rate, your insurance company keeps paying. You compound interest on that money even though you’ve borrowed it at result, you make money in two places at the same time. That’s why your investments get supercharged. This isn’t a new technique, it’s a refined strategy used by some of the wealthiest families in history, and it uses century old rock solid insurance companies as its back. Turbo charge your investments. Visit www.wealthformulabanking.com. Again, that’s wealth formula banking.com. Welcome back to Show Everyone. Today my guest on Wealth Formula podcast is Russell Gray. He’s a second generation financial strategist and, uh, you may know him from being a, the former co-host of the Real Estate Guy Radio Show, which is one of the longest running, uh, uh, radio shows of its time, uh, in the United States. He’s, he’s a founder of. Raising Capitalist project, which is an initiative focused on helping aspiring investors and entrepreneurs how to better understand how wealth is actually created and how uh, economic systems really work. Uh, he’s best known for his emphasis on real assets, cash flow, economic cycles, and preserving wealth and what he views as an increasingly fragile financial system. Welcome, Ross. How are you? Good buck, happy to be here. And, uh, proud of your success on your show. I remember way back at the beginning you were like, Hey, I wanna start a podcast. Yeah. Yep. You’ve done a great job. Yeah, it was an idea. I was like, here’s the idea. Start a podcast, build a community, all that kind of stuff. But it’s interesting. Uh, well, and let’s talk about what’s going on now. You’ve spent decades teaching people about, you know, real assets and cash flow. But lately your writings feel more focused on systems and and macro forces. So what’s changed? Has something finally become too big to ignore? Well, I think there’s two things you know personally, uh, most people who have heard of me or followed me know that 2008 wasn’t kind to me. I was in the mortgage business. I was very leveraged into real estate all over the place. Had my businesses for cash flow, had the real estate for equity growth. Believed that real estate was hyper resilient and gonna be the beneficiary of inflation. Didn’t understand the dependency on credit markets in both my business and my portfolio. And so that was a big mess, not doing, uh, a real SWOT analysis and understanding. And the third part of that, that was tough, is that I operated the business primarily on credit lines as well. So I had virtually no cash. And so when the credit markets seized up. Canceled my income, it canceled my credit lines and it evaporated my equity. And now all I had was negative cash flow on debt, on real estate. I couldn’t control. And so I looked at that and I said to myself, you know, I’m a pretty smart guy. I. Pride myself on paying attention. So obviously I’m not paying attention to the right thing. So I became obsessed with the macro, uh, picture and, and the financial system, which, you know, to me it’s, it’s the macro economy is what’s going on with, uh. Geopolitics and the energy and, you know, even policy, uh, that affects, uh, how well money can flow through the system. Both monetary policy from the Federal Reserve and fiscal policy from the government now today in the Trump administration trade policy. And so I began to pay attention to all those things, but from the standpoint of not how it was gonna affect the stock market, but how it was gonna affect the bond market and interest rates and the availability of credit, and how it was gonna affect Main Street. Directly and specifically now in terms of jobs and job creation are real wages. And so when I started really looking at all that, um, I, I, I realized that there were some things happening that were gonna be really good, and there were also some things that we needed to pay attention to. And these things move very slowly. So in 2010. I saw that coming outta the financial crisis, the Chinese were very upset with the United States about how much the Fed Balance sheet was expanding, and they were concerned about their very large investment in US dollar denominated. Bonds, and so they began creating bilateral trade agreements with Russia and many other countries to where they could begin this large process of de Dollarizing. Well, that was the first time I’d seen that movie, because it was the same thing that the Europeans did after they saw the Nixon default. Right? They began working on the Euro, which took ’em from 71, 72 when they started, maybe 74 when they started, but it took ’em till 99 to get it done. But you know, once they got it in place, over time, the Euro, the Euro has taken over 20% of global trade. You know, that’s market share from the US dollar. And so I saw this BrickX thing beginning to form. Uh, and then I saw the other thing on the macro that I thought was gonna be really good was in the jobs act, something you’ve benefited from as a syndicator, we. I wrote that report, new law breaks Wall Street Monopoly. And so, uh, even though I, I can’t tell you I was a big fan of Barack Obama, but he signed that legislation that happened on his watch. And I think it was fantastic because now it allowed Main Street syndicators, main Street Capital raisers to advertise for accredited investors and began to really, uh, level that playing field and open up Main Street, uh, to invest directly in Main Street. And so I met you in the syndication program that we put together with the real estate guys to coach real estate investors on how to become capital raisers to, to capitalize on that trend. So that’s, you know, kind of how I kind of became doing what I’m doing. And then when I decided, uh, just about 20 months ago to depart the real estate guys, I wanted to take some of the things that I originally set out to do when I first met Robert Helms way back in the day. And, you know, as relationships go, you know, he has his interest in the things that he wants to do, and I had my interest in things I came to do. And for a long time we were aligned well enough to continue to work together. But it got to a point where, for me, I, I wanted to go off in a different direction, and part of that was driven. By the, the death of my late wife. Uh, you had me on the show right after that happened to me, and I was going through this like, who am I? Why am I here? What am I supposed to do next? What do I really want to get done before I die? And so all of those things kind of informed my personal decisions to, to make a switch. And then of course, what’s going on in the macro. Um, what I saw with Trump 1.0, what I saw in the Biden administration and those policies, and then what I thought would happen in Trump 2.0. And I did a presentation on this at the best ever conference in March of 2025, right after he’d been inaugurated. And, and so, uh, that, that’s kind of has me where I feel like there’s some real opportunity coming. Uh, there’s also some things we need to be aware of on Main Street. Yeah. So you’re bullish on Main Street in general, but you’ve been pretty cautious about the broader financial system. So, uh, what are the things that you’re worried about? Well, I, I think if you understand the way the financial system works, uh, it has a shelf life and that. It’s because it’s, it’s a system that is, depends upon ever increasing debt. Um, people say, I wanna pay the debt off, but if they, if they really understood the system, at least the way I think I understand it, uh, and I’m not alone in this, so it’s not something I just figured out on my own. But, um, you know. I, I don’t want to sit here and pretend like I’m the world’s foremost expert, but the way I understand the way the system works is that it, it requires ever increasing debt, and if we were to pay the debt off, it would collapse the system. So I think you waste a lot of time and energy and from a policy perspective, trying to argue about doing that. And I think that’s why it’s never, ever, no matter what administration, what politician, what mix of congress, what. Pressure there is everywhere globally. The system, the central banking system, the way it works globally, is designed to create ever increasing debt. So the, the flip side of that then is to let the debt run. And if you let the debt run, at some point you fall into a debt trap where the interest on the outstanding debt consumes all of the available discretionary income. And then you’re borrowing just to service the debt. Yeah, that’s about $1 trillion right now, by the way. Which is. Which is, uh, about the, the, the defense, uh, budget. Well, and I think that the bigger thing is when you look at, at the interest on the debt and mandatory spending, there’s virtually no room left after that. So if you’ve got, you’ve got the mandatory spending and you’ve got, um, debt service, you, you have very little room. So it’s not. Feasible either for two reasons. One is there’s just not enough discretionary room to be able to cut expenses enough to, to ever manage the debt. Number two, as I previously mentioned, if we were ever to effectively try to pay down the debt in any appreciable way, it would crash the the system. So the, the way I look at it is it’s, it’s, it’s got to be replaced. There’s going to be a great reset. I think the World Economic Forum was trying to set that up for the world, and they had an agenda. I’m, I’m not particularly fond of. Um, there’s been talk about creating a central bank digital currency, which I think is what, you know, the Federal Reserve and the, what I all call the wizards, uh, or the powers of B would prefer. Uh, but I think if you care about privacy and, and, you know, individual sovereignty, uh, and, and just personal freedom, um, I have a lot of concerns about a central bank digital currency. Um, I think the popularity of Bitcoin, uh, if it was, you know, and who knows what the. True origins were, but let’s just take it at face value. I think a lot of the people, at least that were the early adopters before it had the big price run up, was just a way to escape, uh, the system before it failed. And so you’ve got that. And then you’ve got, again, as I mentioned, the bricks and this global effort to de dollarize, which was I think really kicked off. After the great financial crisis and the massive expansion of the Fed’s balance sheet. And then I think picked up a little steam when we froze Russian assets and people began to see that the US might use the dollar and the dollar system, uh, for political instead of being neutral. And I think that picked up some steam. And, and so there’s, there’s both a geopolitical drive to. Uh, come up with a new system. There is, I think we’re at the end of a shelf life that some type of a new system is gonna have to be, uh, created. Uh, and, and then you look at what Donald Trump is doing and what he’s espousing. You know, let’s get rid of income taxes. Let’s get back to pulling in, uh, revenue from tariffs the way the country was originally founded. Uh, he’s talked about eliminating the IRS and going with an ERS, an external revenue service. There’s people that think that he might beat. Wanting to try to get back on some form of sound money, you know, coming out of, Hey, let’s audit the Fed, let’s audit the gold. I mean, let’s audit the gold. And, um, so, you know, we, you, you never know what what’s really gonna happen, but, but I think what we have to pay attention to are the signs that the system is beginning to break down. And one of those signs that I pay a lot of attention to is monetary, metals, gold and silver. I make a distinction between precious metals, which would also include platinum and palladium, and of course they’re strategic metals, but I just focus on monetary metals, which would be gold and silver, and gold and silver. We’re telling you that people would prefer to be the, the, the safe ha haven asset is no longer us treasuries, but, um, but, but gold and central banks have been driving a lot of it. This isn’t the retail market driving it yet. It, it’s really central banks have been accumulating. And so those are the ultimate insiders when it comes to currency. And if the insiders in the currency markets are repositioning into gold, uh, I’d, I’d call that a clue. Yeah, absolutely. Um. Yeah. You recently commented on the public criticism, president Donald Trump made toward, uh, uh, Peter Schiff. What stood out to you about that exchange? Maybe give us some background people. Not everybody knows who Peter is and, and, uh. And all that. So, yeah. Well, I mean, as you know, I’ve known Peter for 12 or 13 years and, uh, I had read his father’s work way back in the day. He is a very famous in the tax protestor world as somebody who just believed that income taxes were unconstitutional. And he resisted that and ended up going to jail for, died in jail as a matter of fact. And so that was, uh, I think sad. Um. But, but to me it felt like a little bit of being a political prisoner, but be that as it may, that’s how I got to know Peter. And so Peter is a guy that comes from the Austrian School of Economics and he believes in sound money. He believes in gold. He does not like Bitcoin. I’ve sat on panels the last two years with Peter, uh, in between him and Larry Lepard. And you know, Larry is a, a former gold guy. He’s still not opposed to gold, but he’s a hardcore sound money guy. But he likes Bitcoin. Peter hates Bitcoin and they get into it, and I usually sit in between ’em and try to keep things calm. Well, you know, so Peter ended up going on Fox and Friends, uh, I think on whatever it was, Friday the eighth I think it was, or whatever, whatever day that was. And he, he criticized Donald Trump’s spending. And, um, budget deficits and said that it would lead to inflation, and that’s a hot button for Trump. And so Trump, yeah. Uh, responded to him, uh, I think like four 30 in the morning on Saturday morning and called Peter, uh, a. Jerk and a total loser. Well, actually I saw it before Peter did, and so I took a screenshot and I texted it to him. I said, Hey, have you seen this? You know, maybe I’ll press is good press. And I think to a degree, maybe it has been me from, I understand Peter ended up on Tucker Carlson’s show as a result of that. So, but I made a video right after that because I, you know, there was a time when. I’m friends with Peter Schiff and I’m friends with Robert Kiyosaki. As you know, I, we introduced you to both those guys and, and at one point they didn’t like each other very much. They got into it ’cause, you know, and, and so we introduced ’em to each other and found that they had more in common than they, they didn’t. And I, I think that that would be true. Not that I’m in a position to introduce Peter to, to Donald Trump, but I think the way Peter is looking at it is true. Um, but there’s context and I think the context is super important. Now I’ve been studying Donald Trump as a businessman way before he was a presidential candidate or a politician, you know, before he was a polarizing guy, a pariah for some people. He, he was just this real estate guy. He’s good at marketing, he’s a real estate guy, and as you know. We got to know his longtime attorney, George Ross. And so I’ve had a chance to have conversations about what it was like working with Donald Trump, the real estate guy, and when he became a politician, I asked George, is he a crazy man? Does he shoot from the hip? And you know, I got a lot of reassurances that he is a sober sound. Methodical, self-disciplined guy and, and I think he uses the eroticism to keep people off balance as a negotiating tactic. And he writes about that in the art of the deal. So the context that I think that people need to have, and I’m not here to defend Donald Trump, the man. I’m not here to defend Donald Trump, the politician, but I look at the policies and what I think he’s up to in the context of realizing that we have a system that is fundamentally flawed and has to be remodeled. So to use a real estate, uh, metaphor, it would be like we have a hotel building that is very tired. It’s at the end of its life, it’s got to be remodeled, and so you can’t. Completely shut it down because it’s an operating business, so it’s gotta operate during the remodel. And so you begin to, um, reposition things and. You, you, you’re not gonna run optimally, so you’re gonna run some deficits while you’re doing the remodel. You’re gonna go into debt because you got a lot of CapEx to do, and during that period of time, your debt and deficits are gonna be a problem. But real estate guys look at debt and deficits not as a permanent condition. I think Peter is saying, Hey, you’re just running up debt and deficits. Well, in the short term he is. Honestly, I don’t think Trump is concerned about that. I think he’s focused on getting this remodel done, and part of that remodel was showed up in the last jobs report, right? We lost jobs to a degree, but they were government jobs, and what we got was a lot of gains in private sector jobs. Scott descent, his treasury secretary, has come out and overtly said, we are an administration for Main Street, not for Wall Street. So if you’re going to de financialize this economy and turn it back into a productive economy. You’re going to have to have policies that are gonna stimulate Main Street, and that’s, that’s the, the, the new units that you’ve rehabbed in your hotel that you wanna move people into. At the same time, you gotta move them outta the old units, which is people making money, trading claims on wealth instead of producing real goods and services, which is the financial ice economy. So it’s not about banking, it’s not about stocks, it’s not about Wall Street. You know, you need the stock market to stay up. But really what you need to do is you need to create production. And, and, and I think that’s fundamental. I think he understands we’re never gonna pay the debt off by cutting. We’ve got to keep the system running until we can get to some form of sound money. We’re actually paying the debt off as realistic, and then we have to earn so much money that the debt relative to our earnings shrinks. So it’s not paying down the debt, it’s paying down the percentage of GDP by growing GDP. And the presentation I did at best ever in March of 2025 was me explaining why I thought. His policies, were going to allow him to increase velocity and increase wages by cutting taxes, interest regulation, transportation costs, and, and again, that was six weeks into administration. That was theory. I’m gonna do a follow up in March of this year to say, okay, looking back when I gave the speech a year ago, what’s transpired, but I can already tell you a lot of the stuff that I thought he would do. He’s done. And I think that’s muting some of the inflation that his spending and deficits to Peter’s point are causing. And that’s why when this last CPI report came out, it wasn’t as ugly as everybody thought it would be. And, and this is when you don’t look at, when you look at it in the mono, you just look at one thing and Peter’s very fixated on this quantity of money theory. Then the expectation is that you print a bunch of money, you run a bunch of deficits, you’re gonna get inflation. And it’s just a. Equals B or A leads to B. But there are other nuances and I think Trump is looking at more like a real estate developer, which makes sense. ’cause that’s his background. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. It’s, I mean, and then the other just point to, to make there is that there is probably, um, now inflation’s a tricky thing, right? Like on the one hand you don’t want this riding up, but on the other hand, it actually helps with that debt. You’re, you’re basically eroding the debt by letting inflation ride a little bit higher at the same time. And I think the Trump administration knows that it’s a tricky thing to balance, but the goal is to, you know, get GDP pumping at, you know, four or 5%, but it’s gotta be real production buck. And that’s the difference, right? The old way of dealing with the debt was inflation. And, and I think people think that he’s using the old formula, but I don’t think he is. Well, I think it’s, I think, I think it’s definitely geared towards increasing real GDP, but I think in the process there’s probably, they probably care less a little bit. Of inflation riding up a little bit in the meantime. ’cause you’re still gonna have, I think he thinks he can mute it. I think he can mute it with lower taxes, lower interest expense, lower energy costs. And the energy is the economy. And from day one, that was the first policy. He’s, he’s aggressively gone after lowering energy costs because that has a, a, a ripple through, it just affects every area of the economy. And then the regulations in, in the last cabinet meeting. It was reported, the way I understood it, that for every regulation his administration passes, they’ve eliminated 48. So it’s actually, he’s removing the friction. And I think the bigger thing is, and I, and I was on a panel at Limitless, uh, this last summer, and TaRL, Yarborough was moderating the panel, asked the panelists what we were looking at that maybe other people weren’t looking at that. Um. You know, is, is a signal about maybe the direction it was. We, I, I can’t remember. This was a prediction panel and what I said was trade policy because everybody in finance spends all their time looking at the flow of money and trying to get in front of the flow of money. And we’re so used to the money coming from the Fed or coming from the treasury. So they’re gonna come from monetary policy or fiscal policy. And that’s what Peter’s doing. He’s looking at the Fed and he is looking at the treasury. And so what I’m looking at is not just the tariff income, which is relatively minor, but I’m looking at the trade deals, and those are published at the White House and there’s a couple trillion dollars of money that’s FDI, foreign Direct Investments coming right into Main Street. And it’s gonna build infrastructure. It’s gonna build factories. It’s good. And they tell you where it’s gonna be because they, they came back with the opportunity zones, which I thought they would do. Makes sense. It’s the way he thinks. And then taking those opportunity zones, the governors can say where in their state they want that money to go. Well, people on Wall Street don’t think geography ’cause they operate in a commodity world that trades on global exchanges. But real estate people. Geography matters a lot. So if I’m a Main Street person, I live on Main Street and I’m looking for Main Street opportunities, I wanna look where that money is going to be flowing in geographically. And then there may be opportunities in real estate or small businesses in those economies, and you can see it coming, but nobody talks about it. So I created Main Street Capitalist as a show to begin to talk about it. I still do the investor mentoring club, which is, you know. A premium thing where we get together every month and we talk about these things. And the point is, is that if you understand, I think what he’s doing, then you can, you can begin to paddle into position. And I think, again, I am really bullish if he loses inflation. If he loses to inflation, he’s cooked. He knows it. I think that that even the suggestion that Peter made that he was losing to inflation is what flared him up. And so I wasn’t trying to necessarily defend. Peter and I wasn’t trying to defend Trump, I was just trying to reconcile that it is possible that both guys could be right at the same time from their perspective. And so I, you know, I, I had one guy take exception because he felt like I was defending Trump, but for the most part, I got positive feedback on the video. I, I, I, you saw it. So you tell me. Did it make sense? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Absolutely. So when you look at today’s environment, everything going on, where do you think investors are most vulnerable? Um, I, I think that if you are very dependent upon, um, healthy credit markets, we could have a disruption. And that’s what happened to me. If Trump loses the inflation battle even for a little while, little be reflected in interest rates. And the challenge is right now that he is asked the Fed to quote unquote lower rates, but the Fed actually doesn’t like. Set rates, what they do is they set a target and then they manipulate markets to achieve those rates. And if, if people believe the fed, there’s a little bit of front running. So what’ll happen is the Fed will come out and go, oh, we’re gonna lower rates, which means bond prices are gonna go up. So they’re like, that’s great, let’s go buy a bunch of bonds, which drives rates down. So the Fed just by talking. Begins to move the market and then they hope that later on the Fed will buy those bonds from them at a profit to push rates down. Does that make sense? So, so when the last two times the Fed has raised rates in their target, the 10 year has responded in the opposite direction. Which means that the market is like not buying in, and the Fed is gonna have to step in. And when the Fed steps in, they do it by printing money out out of thin air. Now, the concern about that is that when they print the money out of thin air. If they’re replacing bonds on their own balance sheet, that’s kind of a circle and it doesn’t leak out into the economy. If they’re buying new issuance from the the treasury, then that money is gonna work its way through the government to to to main street. Now, the Trump administration can prevent some of that by keeping the money in the Treasury, for example, uh, Trump 1.0 left. The Biden administration with, I think over a trillion dollars in, in the treasury checking account, and Janet Yellen put that into the economy right away during the lockdowns, which immediately created extreme inflation because you muted production at the same time you goose. Uh. Purchasing power, you know? So anybody with like three ounces of economic understanding could have told you that that inflation was gonna come, it was gonna come hard, it was gonna come fast, and it was gonna be stickier than than you thought. ’cause once you let that money out in the economy, it’s out. It’s out and the only way to mute it is either to suck it back, which is very, very difficult, or to outproduce it, and it’s very hard to produce anything when everything’s in lockdown. So I think that, you know, those days are behind us. I think the policies that we’re embracing now are more. Pro productivity. And I think that even if the Fed does have to step in, as long as that money doesn’t leak out into the economy, and part of it is the treasury being able to throttle some of that, and the money that does go into the economy doesn’t go into stimulus, but goes into CapEx and infrastructure, that’ll actually, uh, create. Production. Then I think that, you know, this, this game plan that I think they’re trying to execute has a chance. And so I, I’m, I’m watching for it. And of course, to answer your question, what do we have to worry about that it doesn’t work? Right? If it doesn’t work, then inflation will show up. Interest rates will rise, credit markets will crash, it will take real estate values with it. And the hedge is really gonna be, what I’ve always talked about is gold. I started talking back in 2018 when we were the zero bound with interest rates. Hey, there’s only one way interest rates can go and that’s up. And if they go up fast, then that’s gonna crash bonds. So it would be smart, and that’s gonna take real estate equity with it. So it’d be smart when you have real estate equity and low rates to pull some of that equity out and move it into gold. And I called that my precious equity strategy. If I have a video I did at the Vancouver Resource Investment Conference in January of 2022, explaining that when you could still really execute on that, and I’m not saying that you couldn’t do it today, but it’s harder, but the people who did it back then, I mean, you know, they’ve, they’ve seen their gold almost triple. And at the same time, they were able to lock in interest rates that are, you know, a half what they are today. So when you see those mega trends and you can begin, and that’s the stuff I didn’t know how to do in 2006, 2007. I didn’t understand any of this stuff. The, the, you know, losing everything in 2008 forced me to become a hardcore student and then try to apply that to Main Street strategy. And so I think gold and real estate and debt, they all work really well together depending on where you are in the cycle. Do you think that Main Street investors may actually have some advantages in periods like this? Yes, a ton because I think what’s gonna happen is if we have a, um, a, a, a restructure of the financial system into something more responsible, which I think is either gonna be forced upon us or it’s gonna be done by design, and I hope we do it by design. But when that happens, then the days of just buying low and selling high and riding the inflation wave that goes away. And so now it’s gonna be very, very important to understand how to invest for. Productivity. So I call it, you know, buy low sell high trading as an acronym, B-L-S-H-T you. You can sound it out for yourself phonetically. And then the other one is poo, which is productivity of others. And I think that if people focus on investing in the productivity of others, which is what Main street investors, especially real estate investors, focus on, I think cash flow, real profits on small businesses, not speculating on. Uh, exit price or a company that’s gonna take a company public, everybody trying to tap into this giant flood of money that gets pre created from thin air in the banking system and in Wall Street. If, if, if people on Main Street will just start investing. Kind of what Kenny McElroy was doing going through 2008, just focusing on sound assets and good markets with good fundamentals. That cash flow and, and are run by good managers, whether it’s a business, an apartment building, a mobile home park, a self storage, residential assisted living doesn’t really matter. Invest in real businesses that produce real profits where you’re not overpaying for that production of income and especially where there’s some upside. Not to flipping out of the stock, but to actually growing the market share and growing the income. That’s what investing really should be. Wall Street has perverted it into just placing bets and riding a wave and trying to figure out where the money is gonna flow from the Treasury or for from Fed stimulus. And I think Main Street is gonna pick up on the new game sooner. And the good news is if you get good at playing that game, even if the system stays the same, you’re probably gonna do better off anyway. When you talk about buying, buying or investing into productive businesses, I mean, what, what’s the difference in your mind between investing in a private business versus investing in a, you know, a publicly traded business that’s run off, you know, dividends? Yeah, so I, I, I think that it could be okay if the dividend yield makes sense, but anytime you have a publicly traded security, it’s a highly liquid market, which means it’s gonna be volatile and the stocks become chips in the casinos where professional traders are just gambling all day long. And some of that gambling can create an impact on the stock, and it doesn’t matter to you if you’ve only bought it for production of income. Um. And so, uh, you know, I, I don’t think it’s bad. I’ve, you know, Peter’s always been an advocate of, uh, dividend paying stocks, and I think if you’re gonna be in the stock market, that’s what you want to do. I think the opportunity in a private placement in a small business is the opportunity not to have to pay the high multiples because it’s not a perfect market. It’s, it’s the same reason there’s so much more opportunity in real estate. If real estate could trade on an electronic exchange where. You know, millions of buyers could find it, and you could have perfect price discovery. It’s very difficult to find a deal, right? It’s very difficult. But we, if you buy a private business, you know there’s gonna be considerations. You, you deal with a, a owner. Who cares about his customers, who cares about his team, maybe would be willing to carry back the way you would if you were buying a, a, a piece of property from somebody that cares about their neighbors or whatever. I mean, there’s, there’s, there’s a lot more humanity in it. There’s a lot more room for negotiation in it. And a lot of times there’s a lot more room to have control. So, you know, one of the adages with real estate that real estate investors like is, I’m gonna buy an asset, one that I understand, two that I can control. And so when you buy a stock, like a dividend paying stock, you, you might understand the business, you may not understand completely the. Uh, market dynamics that drive the stock price. But as long as the dividends are there, that can be okay, but you don’t have any control. When you actually go buy a small business, you have a, a degree of control. Now, if you’re a passive investor buying into a syndication, then you still have a little bit more, um. Relationship, you have a little bit more insight. You maybe have a voice. You may know the people that are making the decision and running the company personally. So it’s the same thing. You know, you Buck is a syndicator. When you go do a deal, your investors know you. They have a personal relationship with you. Go buy stuff in the stock market and mutual fund managers and investor. You don’t have a relationship with that fund manager and I think that’s worth something if you have a voice right. So we’ve, we’re talking a little bit about credit markets, um, volatility, you know, interest rates. Are they gonna go down like, you know, Donald Trump would like to see, and you know, we’ve got a new fed share coming, all that kind of thing. How should investors be thinking about leverage and risk right now? I, I think the adage with real estate, uh, I mean, sorry, with leverage is always the same, is, um, you know, manage cash flow. I, if, if you use leverage to speculate, that could be a real problem. And whether you did it. Do it for real estate like I did by having very thin or negative cash flow and making that up someplace else and believing that somehow, you know, rents or appreciation are gonna do it. Or buying a non-income producing asset with borrowed funds hoping it’s gonna go higher. I think that would be dangerous, but I think if you fundamentally use debt as a tool. Based on cash flows and you use conservative cash flows, you know, so the debt service coverage ratio, you know, if you have $10,000 a month going out in debt service, make sure you have at least, you know, $12,000 a month coming in on income or above. Then that’s how you begin to build resiliency into your portfolio. And the other thing is don’t borrow long to invest short, right? So your duration matters a lot. We were talking about this before we hit the record button, and I think what happens is people. Uh, make a mistake when they try to operate like a bank. ’cause banks lend short and invest long. And the only reason they get away with it is because they have the Federal Reserve Bank system backstopping them. But you don’t have that as an individual, so you better to do the opposite. Um, if you can match the durations, that’s perfect, right? ’cause then you know what your interest expense is for the, for the duration of the investment. And once you lock in the spread, then you just have the counterparty risk of the, whoever is responsible for creating that income stream that’s gonna service the debt you use to control the asset. And then it just comes down to underwriting and then recourse. And if you feel comfortable with the underwriting and you feel comfortable with the recourse, and you’ve got spread and you’ve locked in a, a duration. Um, that, that is compatible, then that can be a, a, a fairly safe way to use debt. And if interest rates work against you, then you’re okay. And if interest rates work for you, you might be able to refinance your debt and actually increase your spread, but you don’t need it to happen to be successful. Let’s talk a little bit more about what you’re doing right now. So in the past year, you’ve launched, um, several new initiatives. You had masterminds via platforms. Tell us a little bit about this and, and a little bit more what, what you’re trying to accomplish. Well, you know, after losing my wife, um, you, you go through this. Period of time of like figuring out, okay, life is short. What do I want to get done before I left die myself. And so, um, after thinking about that, I went back to really what I came to do when I first met Robert Helms and got involved in the real estate guys. And so I just kinda went back to home base and. Then the other thing is now I’ve got 17 grandchildren, and so I’m thinking a lot less like a father, more like a, a grandfather, a founding father. And, um, and so I’m thinking about what the world is gonna be like in 40, 50, 60 years, and what can I do to plant a seed that will make that world better for my grandchildren? And so I, I did a couple things. One is, um, after I left the real estate guys, we were going through a merger with Ken McElroy, George Gammon and Jason Hartman to create, um, a mastermind group, which we did. And I, I was CEO of that for the. The year during the merger. And that took up some time. And the second thing I decided to do, uh, ironically, it was after a conversation I had with Charlie Kirk. I had a conversation with Charlie Kirk. I said, Hey, I’ve got this idea to help, uh, K through 12 get involved in, in capitalism by starting businesses or working with businesses. Their parents start, and I explained to him the model. He goes, I love it. I want to help you. And so that encouraged me. And then I had a follow up meeting in January of 20. 24 with Mark Victor Hansen, and he really encouraged me. And so with the strength of those two endorsements, I go, you know, I’m gonna do this. And so, uh, I left the real estate guys in, um. March, late March of 2024, and in the summer of 2024, I, I launched the Raising Capitalists Foundation, and people can learn more about that by going to raising capitalists plural.org. And I, I literally launched it at Freedom Fest on July 13th, 2024 and five minutes before I took the stage, Donald Trump got shot. Always remember where I was and how distracting it was, but I did record that presentation and it’s on the website, and so it explains the model. But in, in short, it’s pairing, um, or it’s, it’s putting parents who are in what Kiyosaki, uh, rich Dad would call the E-Class employees. And, uh. Put them under a mentorship program with experienced entrepreneurs and investors to help them start a business, a side hustle. They need the money and they need a mentor. And so then they, um, it can create a situation where their children can come to work for them in the business. And today, information Society, you know, there’s a lot of things kids can do where they learn real life skills, um, working with their parents. So that’s what the Raising Capitalist Foundation is all about. Then I launched two shows. Uh, in 2025, uh, one is I literally just launched like a week ago, and that’s. That Donald Trump video was really the first one that I put out, the Donald Trump versus Peter Schiff video on YouTube. I haven’t even started the podcast side of it. Um, and in on September 27th, uh, on pray.com, I started, uh, another show that, that one’s called the Main Street Capitalist. So if you go to YouTube and look at the Main Street capitalist, you’ll, you can find me there. And then the other one I created was the Christian capitalist. And I kind of went back to, you know, my, my core roots of realizing when I started looking at. Where the country was at, John Adams said that, um. Our Constitution was designed for a moral and religious people and is really wholly inadequate for any other, and so I thought, you know what? I’m I, I’m going to do that because my experience as a, as a Christian businessman is that I find that sometimes the stuff I get in church is more consumer oriented, and it doesn’t, it’s more employee oriented. I, I don’t. And, and then the other part of that is I created a, a ministry called Fellowship, a Christian capitalist, which is really about helping people put purpose into their business and then, you know, express their faith. Love your neighbor. Through their business. And so I’ve got all these different initiatives going and then I created the Main Street Media Network because I wanting to reach youth. I hired a YouTube coach and I said, look, I want to create content to encourage youth. He goes, that’s great. You can’t do it. You’re too old, he said, so what you need to do is find young people you can mentor and teach them the things that you’ve learned and let them teach it in their own words and they’ll reach their generation better than you. So with Main Street Media Network, I’m I, I’ve got. Two guys that I’m apprenticing right now, but I’m gonna be adding a lot more. Um, one, one young man is 20 years old, the other one is 26 years old. And, uh, I just came back from the Turning Point USA event where we had a broadcast booth and they were conducting interviews and I did the New Orleans Investment Conference. And so these guys are sitting down with Peter Schiff, Robert Kiyosaki, Mike Maloney, Ken McElroy, you know, you, you know what that did for you, buck with your show. You know, you, you met all these people through us and then you. We’re able to build upon that and create a very credible show. So I’m doing that for these guys that are in their twenties with the idea that they will be able to reach a generation of people. Uh, I call it putting Boomer Wisdom in Gen Z mounts. I mean, they get to process it and it gets to be their own. And I’m helping them build financial podcasts that actually make the money and is the foundation of, in this case, they’re both capital raisers of their capital raising business. I got all these different things going, but I’m doing it through leaders, so I’m not trying to do all things myself. Yeah, yeah. Um, but I’m building out an ecosystem to accomplish all these goals and so far so good. It’s a lot. Sounds working like a young man, man, man. I’ll tell you that. I know, I know. Wow. I I thought you were gonna slow down after you. No, I’ve actually, I put my, I put, I put my foot on the gas. I, I’ve probably never worked, uh, harder. Um, but I, I think I’m working smart, you know, so I’m hiring coaches and I’m bringing in, um, leaders and going through all that EOS and organizing to scale stuff. Sounds good. Well, always a pleasure, Russ. Um, make sure not to be a stranger to have you on again, um, you know, in a few months and figure out where you’re going with all this stuff. All the new things that you’ve accomplished, but it’s, uh, it’s great to see you. Well, happy to be here, proud of you. Uh, keep up the good work and keep educating people. Thank you. You make a lot of money, but are still worried about retirement. Maybe you didn’t start earning until your thirties. Now you’re trying to catch up. Meanwhile, you’ve got a mortgage, a private school to pay for, and you feel like you’re getting further and further behind. Now, good news, if you need to catch up on retirement, check out a program put out by some of the oldest and most prestigious life insurance companies in the world. It’s called Wealth Accelerator, and it can help you amplify your returns quickly, protect your money from creditors, and provide financial protection to your family if something happens to you. The concepts here are used by some of the wealthiest families in the world, and there’s no reason why they can’t be used by you. Check it out for yourself by going to wealthformulabanking.com. Welcome back to the show everyone. Hope you enjoyed it. As always, Russ, uh, is, uh, you know, he’s, he’s got a lot of wisdom. He is the guy you really wanna listen to. And I would encourage you to follow his work anyway. Uh, just pivoting back, you know, to where this economy is and all that. I think for me personally, it’s about allocating capital in a market that is a, uh, is certainly losing value in its dollars. And, um, and I think that we’re gonna continue to see that. Speaking of that, make sure if you haven’t, as I mentioned before, sign up for the Accredited Investor Club. Go to wealthformula.com, go to investor club, as we have plenty of those types of things that are hedging against inflation, um, saving taxes in terms of tax mitigation strategies, that kind of thing. Check it out. That’s it for me This week on Well Formula Podcast. This is Buck Joffrey signing off. If you wanna learn more, you can now get free access to our in-depth personal finance course featuring industry leaders like Tom Wheel Wright and Ken McElroy. Visit wealthformularoadmap.com.

Join an active community of RE investors here: https://linktr.ee/gabepetersen

These two personal finance advisors are friends, but what they believe couldn't be more opposite.

Keith explores two big themes shaping real estate investors' futures: Why more Americans are becoming "forever renters"—and how long-term lifestyle and demographic shifts (not just today's prices and rates) are quietly reshaping the demand for rentals. The growing conversation around eliminating property taxes—which states are making the most noise, and why the real issue isn't whether property taxes go away, but what would realistically replace them. Keith also zooms out for a quick year-end tour of major asset classes—from stocks and real estate to metals and crypto—so listeners can see where real estate fits in the broader investing landscape and what these shifts might mean for their wealth-building strategy. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/588 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the Forever renter trend keeps getting embedded deeper into American culture. What's behind it? It's more than just finances. Then there's been more talk about eliminating property taxes, if they go away, what replaces them? And we'll discuss more today on get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:12   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:28   Welcome to GRE from Jamestown, New York to Jamestown, North Dakota and across 108 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. Most investments reduce your income until you can start drawing on it and paying taxes on it in your 60s. That's a lot of decades of living below your means. Here learn how to grow your means and invest in vehicles that pay you when you're young enough to enjoy it and pay you five ways tax advantaged. Hey, there's a big misunderstanding about the housing market taking place right now. Yes, today's higher cost of home ownership contributes to Americans renting longer, for sure, but let's not make the mistake of thinking this is a new phenomenon just because home prices moved higher or mortgage rates began normalizing again a few years ago, that's not what it's about Americans renting longer. That is a trend decades in the making, and it has had and will continue to have major implications on the rental housing market decades into the future, buying your first home at 25 that was your grandparents or maybe your parents. Today, it kind of goes like this in life's journey for the wannabe homeowner, First comes the gray hair, then comes the mortgage. Last year, we learned that the average first time homebuyer age in America has moved up to 40. Back in 1981 it was age 29 per the NAR. More specifically one's real estate journey, it basically now goes like this, rent, rent, rent, have roommates again, go back to renting, chiropractor, Bank of mom and dad, then a mortgage maybe.   Keith Weinhold  3:34   Yeah, the home ownership rate, it keeps falling among every age group, most sharply among 30 somethings. The translation here is that more renters are coming. For those in their 30s, the home ownership rate maxed out at 69% in 1980 it's fallen to just 47% today. Those that are older, for those in their 40s, the homeownership rate maxed out at 78% in 1982 it has fallen to just 62% today and so on. Every 10 year age group all the way to those age 80 plus, the homeownership rate has fallen for all of them over the decades too, every single age cohort. The home ownership rate has fallen over the decades, and that is all per the Census Bureau. I'll tell you why this forever renter trend just keeps strengthening in a moment. But if you don't own your home, here are your current housing options. You can live with your parents. Yes, welcome back childhood bedroom with those glow in the dark stars on the ceiling. Sadly, you can be homeless. That is really not good. Or the other option is you can rent something nice, new, modern, and energy eficient. The group in which home ownership has fallen the most are those 30 somethings. 20 somethings aren't even part of what the Census Bureau reported here. It fell most sharply in the 1980s and then again, after the great recession. And here's what I know you might be thinking because we have some of the smartest listeners around. I bet that during times that buying was cheaper than renting, the trend reversed. That's what you might be thinking. No, it didn't. Regardless of what is cheaper, over time, the home ownership rate just keeps falling despite those periods, whatever is cheaper renting or owning now the overall home ownership rate that's fallen just since 2023 from 66% down to 65% that might not sound like much, but a Full 1% drop there means 1.3 million new renters already, just since 2023 and now you might be thinking, well, this is like totally because home prices and mortgage rates have been higher since that time. They've been higher since 2023 you are, in fact, somewhat correct about the affordability on a median priced home today, which is around 420k, I mean a 10% down payment and closing costs, that means you're out of pocket, probably more than 50k and it's 100k plus for a 20% down payment. And this is often an insurmountable hurdle without financial help from the Bank of mom and dad. But this is all part of a longer, multi decade set of trends. And look, a lot of these trends don't have much of anything to do with finances. People are renting longer because Americans wait longer to marry and have kids, and this has persisted, whether economic cycles are good or bad, and certainly, regardless of what mortgage rate levels are, younger generations value flexibility. That's another reason people are renting longer. Also 30 somethings are just simply more comfortable with subscription models like renting. I mean, look at Netflix and Uber and Spotify. It's been decades since anyone actually bought DVDs or CDs. Yeah, renting is just sort of another subscription model. More. Boomers are also renting for convenience. They would rather play pickleball instead of mow a lawn. This is something that they figured out a while ago. Also higher consumer and educational debt keeps people renting. You've got buy now, pay later. Companies like Klarna that are booming and mortgage eligibility got sucked from souls when all this happened? Hey, I've got more a ton of reasons for why more and more people are renters today, and how this trend is your friend if you are a rental property investor.    Keith Weinhold  8:13   Also, let's be mindful when we broke the gold standard in 1971 asset prices took off like a Blue Origin launch, and wages stagnated. That makes it tough to patch together a down payment and look, there is still an antiquated notion out there that apartments especially are like replete with paper thin walls and one in every five units is a meth lab. Have you toured apartment buildings, fourplexes, duplexes and single family rentals built in the last 10 years? Sheesh. Great amenities. Expect to see granite countertops, patios, fenced yards, gyms, sometimes even pet spas at Class A apartments, washer, dryer in unit. I mean, that has been standard for a long time, LED lighting, smart locks, increasingly office nooks for remote workers. Those are the modern amenities that you find in a rental. So the bottom line here is that as Americans age, there is an elongated renter stage of life. It's not just prices or rates, it is lifestyle. And this is why, even when affordability improves, the homeownership rate should continue to drop. More rental demand is coming. So yes, an elongated renter stage, this forever renter, if you will. That is somewhat about finances, but it is more, and this shapes the landlordtenant landscape for decades. And of course, your advantage here at GRE is even if you live in a High Cost part of the nation, we know how to buy here, say, a brand new build to rent single family property in an investor advantage place like Indiana, Missouri, Alabama or Florida, and we get it for, say, 300k or so, and you get a tenant that will pay you rent for four years or more in a lot of cases. So we've been talking about where the rental demand is coming from. It is both a lifestyle choice and a financial consideration for your tenant. Now this forever renter trend, that's something that really matters if you are providing housing to people. But some real estate trends just move so slowly, so glacier like that, you can kind of get lulled to sleep, until one day you look up and a trend has crystallized like the one that I just described. Let's compare a trend like that to something that people think matters a lot, and this does matter, but its importance is overinflated, and that is, for example, the President's nomination of a new Fed chair this year, and how that's going to move the real estate market. No, not as much as people think, as we've learned here, mortgage rates actually don't have that much to do with home prices. And yes, mortgage rates do move. They are correlated with the Fed funds rate. Yes, they are. When one is high, the other will be high. When one is low, the other will be low. They just don't move in direct lockstep. Let's listen in to the remarks of one Donald John Trump on the matter, because he talks about housing here. This is about a minute long, and then I come back to comment when Trump says him, he is apparently pointing to Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, who was in the room at the time, but as you'll hear, he's not expected to be the Fed Chair selection.    Speaker 1  12:06   Have you started the interviews for the Fed chair? Yes. Who have you interviewed? Ithink I already know my choice well. I like to him, but he's not going to take the job very fast. You like Treasury better, right? Much better, sir. So we are talking to various people and the I mean, frankly, I'd love to get the guy currently, and they're out right now,but people are holding me back. He's done a terrible job, hurting housing a little bit. The truth is, we've been so successful, we've blown past his interest rate. Stupidity. He's been wrong. That's why I call him too late. He's too late. Jerome, too late. Powell, he was recommended to me by a guy that made a bad, you know, bad choice, and it's too bad. But despite that, it's having very little impact, because we have, you know, we have all of these things happening, but it has an impact on housing to a certain extent. He's a fool. He's a stupid man, but we have some very good people   Keith Weinhold  13:09   yeah. So this matters, but it's as much entertainment and almost comedy against a demographic trend like the Forever renter propensity, a calendar year recently ended. It's time to make a quick rundown of the overall investing landscape. Once in a while we do that. It's good to check the movement on other asset classes outside real estate. It's our asset class rundown for last year, the s, p5, 100 was up nearly 17% that's the third year in a row of double digit gains in the year that Warren Buffett stepped down as CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, there's a warning. The S and P Schiller price to earnings ratio soared above 40 for only the second time in history. That's an indicator that stocks are overvalued. The only other time that happened was during the.com bubble in real estate, single family home values were up about 2% per the NAR just over 1% per Kay Shiller, apartment building values were flat to a slight decline. There is no such thing as an official apartment building Price Index, CPI inflation, up almost 3% on the year. It now hasn't been at the Fed's target of 2% or lower for a calendar year since 2019 Yeah, it has run hot all that time. Last year, mortgage rates fell from 6.9% to 6.2% and then, as you would expect, the yield on the 10 year treasury note also fell from 4.6 to 4.2 The dollar fell hard with a thud down 9% its worst performance since 2017 WTI oil prices fell from 70 bucks to $58 that's an 18% decline, but really the story of the year among all asset. Classes is what happened with precious metals, gold up a staggering 68% over the past year, touching an all time high of about $4,500 silver, up about 155% leaving investors flabbergasted and slack jawed, touching an all time high of over $80 platinum and palladium had near triple digit gains the real price of gold. This means inflation adjusted even jumped to its all time high last year, significantly surpassing the previous peaks of 1980 2011, and 2020. Realized this. More than 80% of all the recoverable gold on earth has already been extracted. Silver has been the top performing major asset class. In fact, today, a little one ounce silver coin is worth more than a 300 pound barrel of oil. Sticking with the topic of metals, inflation finally killed a penny. The last one was minted in 2025 in Philadelphia, ending a continuous run of the US minting the penny since 1792 no more. Bitcoin was down 6% falling from 93k to 87k the NASDAQ is aiming for near round the clock trading. It currently trades 16 hours a day, five days a week. They are looking to go up to 23 hours a day, five days a week in the second half of this year. That's our year end asset class rundown    Keith Weinhold  16:34   coming up in future weeks of the get rich education podcast. I am going to do an episode on overpopulation versus underpopulation? Is the world over or underpopulated, and is the United States over or underpopulated? This obviously has huge implications for the housing market. Then on another episode, we're going to discuss a real estate axis strategy we've never discussed before, called the 721 exchange. Now you might have heard of the better known 1031 tax deferred exchange, but the 731 is different. When you get older as a property owner and you realize that you don't want the hassles of landlording anymore, you can sell your properties to a partnership. The 721 exchange dictates that this is not a taxable event, and therefore no capital gains taxes or depreciation recapture are due. Property owners still get the benefits of cash flow and the appreciation across a greater number of properties and markets, and it's a great estate planning tool as well. Yes, that's the 721, exchange. We are going to cover it here. When it comes to investment real estate, I guess we cover nearly everything that's coming up on a future episode. As for today, we're talking about property taxes, if they go away, what replaces them that comes up shortly? Visit get richeducation.com to learn more about how we help you and what we do, and to get connected with real estate. Pays five ways type of properties. Visit gre marketplace.com. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  18:23   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products. They've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989,yep, text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  19:34   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, start your pre qual and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind. Start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com    Jim Rickards  20:05   this is author Jim Rickards. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  20:22   Welcome back to get rich education. Episode 588 for the 12th consecutive year here, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I look forward to perhaps meeting you in person this coming weekend, as I'll be attending the real estate guys create your future goals retreat event in Colorado Springs. You probably remember that we have had the events host and leader, Robert Helms, of the real estate guys on the show with us here several times in the past. What a class act I am spending a few extra days after the event in Colorado Springs to both look at local real estate in that market and climb the Manitou incline, that's this grueling climbing challenge up a slope of Pikes Peak. If you want to climb with me after the real estate guys event, bring your running shoes and I'll lead a group of us up there    Keith Weinhold  21:13   if property taxes go away, what replaces them? Realtor.com recently had a terrific article about this that you can look up the property tax revolt is spreading, but the replacement plan isn't let's look at the probability and possibility of eliminating property tax. Think about how property tax elimination would increase the value of your property well, because now every buyer could afford to pay more, since they won't have that property tax expense. And of course, if you were to remove property tax as a line item from your income and expense statement, your cash flow could double, triple, or even five or 10x depending on your current cash, on cash return. But that cash flow part is less likely because most efforts to eliminate the property tax, they focus on homes, primary residences. Well, several states have either active legislation efforts or these sort of informal grassroots movements to significantly cut down or just totally abolish property tax, but no state has fully eliminated them yet. The most prominent efforts are in five states, most notably Florida, where Governor Ron DeSantis has made the most noise about it. He proposed eliminating property taxes on homesteaded which are primary residence properties, and he aims for a constitutional amendment on the November ballot to achieve this, that is 10 months from now. And that proposal, it's still pretty early in the legislative stages, and the state is also considering property tax rebates in the meantime. Now, even if you own rental property, and property tax were only eliminated on primary residences, it would still cause the value of your property to boom pretty nicely, even if it didn't help the cash flow. The state that's made the second most noise is Ohio. A grassroots organization has called Citizens for property tax reform. They have actively campaigned to place a constitutional amendment on their ballot that would just totally abolish property taxes statewide. Third most is Kansas. They propose legislation and that aims to effectively bump up sales tax to replace property tax. The fourth out of five is North Dakota. Let's look at what they're doing following a failed 2024, ballot measure to just totally abolish the property tax outright. Well, there's a new proposal from the governor, and that seeks this phased out elimination for most homeowners over a decade. And see, North Dakota has a slightly better chance of pulling that off, because they can fund that from the state's Legacy Fund, that's their oil well fund, and then making the fifth most abolition of property tax noise is my home state of Pennsylvania. Lawmakers have introduced bills to eliminate all property tax. They also aim for a constitutional amendment to put that issue before the voters. So they are the five states that have made the most noise, and that's what their approach is.    Keith Weinhold  24:43   Now, seemingly for most of my life, homeowners and landlords have griped about property tax, saying it's the most ridiculous tax of them all, because you pay it year after year after year in perpetuity. And it just never goes away. Unlike other taxes that are just a one time tax, even if your property's mortgage is paid off, you still have a house payment, and that is largely due to property tax. Understand, though, that currently a lot of states give you a reduced property tax once you reach a senior age, usually age 65 plus some start as low as 61 but when it comes to eliminating the property tax, there's a part of the conversation that's really important, and it has been notably absent, and that is a novel solution to replace the lost revenue. And it gets rather interesting to look around and see where else the money might be raised if they eliminate property tax. See, and this is really important to understand, property taxes generate 70% of local revenue, up to 90% of school funding and 25% of all state and local tax revenue in aggregate in Florida. Okay, that's just in Florida those numbers, but a lot of states have a similar scenario, and in Florida, that comes out to about $50 billion a year. That is a big hole to plug, that is a big gap to fill, and it underlines both the burden homeowners are currently shouldering and how hard it's going to be to fill that gap with anything that's more stable or equitable, that's going to last as a funding source, yes, 90% of school funding. You heard that, right? If you talk to an old timer, you know sometimes you still hear an elderly person refer to property taxes as school taxes. So see, this question of, Do you want to abolish property taxes? One reason that's become louder and louder these past few years, and why you hear more about it is due to that increased affordability strain. That's why you're hearing more about it now the question, do you want to abolish property taxes? That is the wrong question. A grassroots push to AX the property tax that's gained traction, really, among some senior homeowners facing property tax bills that are as high as their mortgage. Once was last summer, for example, in Mahoning County, Ohio, the tax delinquency rate hit 18% almost one in five people having trouble paying their property tax, and that county had more than 70 million in unpaid property taxes. In some neighborhoods in Youngstown, as many as one in three homeowners were behind. And in Cuyahoga County, which is basically Cleveland, values jumped 32% on average after reassessments that fueled a $60 million dollar increase in past due balances this whole do we want to abolish property taxes? Question? You're going to see why that's the wrong question and why it's incomplete, because that slogan that skips the only part that really matters here, and that is, what is the replacement plan, realistically, taxpayers should be asked if, in lieu of property tax, they'd rather pay higher sales taxes or higher income taxes, or for those with no state income tax, like Texas or Florida, pay one for the first time. I don't like those answers. I wish governments would spend more efficiently, but that's not the angle that we're looking at here. Property taxes are the true lifeblood of local governments. I mean, they fund everything from public safety to roads to schools, and just because property taxes disappear, well that doesn't mean that the need for firefighters goes away, that the need for police officers goes away, or the infrastructure for public school systems is going to be gone, or the roads go away. So if property taxes are cut, then another revenue generating device has to emerge to keep services funded and running. And it's a little funny. I've been talking about certain states here. But of course, property taxes are exacted and assessed at the county and local level. And look, I mean, you know how the world works, you know what the nature of society is. As soon as someone has their income stream, they quickly grow into that lifestyle and the new larger spending pattern. So taking away an existing income stream or even reducing it a little, I mean, that can almost trigger outrage and protests, for example, the outcry that we had last year about cutting snap payments. But it works this way. With anything. I mean, sheesh. For the majority of Americans, if you cut their income even 10% they would struggle to survive. They would struggle to put food in the fridge. So these repeal the property tax campaigns, they often avoid the reality of the replacement math.    Keith Weinhold  30:19   Now, some states have taken a swing at replacing property tax revenue, but few, if any, have succeeded. Now, Nebraska lawmakers, what they did is they floated higher cigarette taxes as a way to fund a goal of cutting their property taxes by 40% I mean, nice try. But according to an analysis by the Tax Foundation, that tax base was far too small. I mean to tell you more about what a terrible miss. This example is Nebraska cigarette taxes. They raised about $52 million in 2024 while property taxes raised $5.3 billion that is 100 times more, not even close, even if you could raise more money in the short run, excise revenues like this cigarette tax, they're pretty volatile, and they often shrink as the demand ebbs and flows. So it really makes them a poor backbone for expenses that grow over time, and they don't eliminate the cost so much as concentrated. So what they do is they sort of shift this broad civic obligation funding all this stuff, police, fire, school, from homeowners onto a much narrower group, in this case, people who smoke. That is not going to work for Nebraska, all right, well, what about a bigger deal, like replacing it with sales tax? Well, they run into a different problem. Local economies are not built the same. You might have a sales tax heavy tourist County, well, they can raise far more money than an agricultural county. And Florida is a clear illustration. They have lots of tourism and lots of agriculture replacing property taxes with sales tax. That would require eye popping sales tax rates too. According to the Tax Foundation Florida statewide, they would have to go from 7% to over 15% sales tax in Florida. But it gets even worse, because counties with a thin sales tax base would have to charge over 32% sales tax. My gosh, that is not going to work, all right. Well, how about another big one? Let's have income taxes replace property tax in a lot of states. I mean, the income tax that's large enough to raise pretty meaningful revenue. But the trade off is that income taxes come with their own sort of economic and political distortions, and once they're added, you know, they rarely stay confined to the tidy swap that voters were promised. I mean, look at New Jersey. They adopted an income tax in the 1970s to provide property tax relief, but over time, that swap proved hard to manage and hard to enforce, and now today, New Jersey has one of the highest effective property tax and state income tax rates combined in the nation. So the point is that all these property tax replacement tools are just inherently piecemeal. Each tax or fee has like this different payer base or some different vulnerability. I mean, if tourism dips, for example, revenues could drop really fast. And the same is true if a regulated industry contracts, or if consumption patterns shift. And you know that volatility, that's manageable for some narrow program, but that is dangerous as the foundation for essential services like public safety and street maintenance and police and schools and fire. Well, how about forgetting all that? Let's just have the government then totally get out of providing public safety and not have the government provide street maintenance and have the government get out of schools. I mean, we used to have more private companies provide you with some of those services. We didn't even have a federal income tax at all until 1913 other than a temporary one to fund the Civil War. But all of that is a bigger topic that we are not going to get into today. The point is, instead of asking the question, do you want to abolish property taxes? The better question is, which replacement are you choosing and who pays for it? Because local costs come on, they're just not likely to shrink anytime soon. After all, all of this schools, fire and police departments, public works, divisions, they're all subject to the same inflation and the same rising costs as the rest of the economy is so the property tax is unpopular. As it is, it does have one functional advantage. It is tied to this immovable base of properties. It's collected locally, and it's designed to fund on going services. That is not to say that some homeowners don't need relief. Some of them clearly do. But eliminating property taxes, that just does not eliminate the underlying cost of government. All it does is reallocate it, and that reallocation can get messy, that shifts a bigger burden onto a smaller share of taxpayers, whether it's smokers, like it was in Nebraska, or whether it's rural shoppers like the Florida sales tax example, or doubly on working homeowners, like it is in the New Jersey income tax example. I have studied this, and I have not seen novel approaches that really keep communities funded without creating some new distortion somewhere else. But unfortunately, one thing that I have seen is this repeal rhetoric, and it makes these political platitudes all that want to just conveniently skip the replacement plan, but it all sounds good and popular when someone stands up there and says that they want to eliminate property taxes. So really the honest question on a ballot. It's not, do you want to abolish property taxes? The honest question is, are you willing to pay higher sales taxes or higher income taxes or adopt one for the first time and accept the distortions that those choices to create to eliminate the property tax? I'm not going to get into the political side of all this, because that's not what we do here. The bottom line is, though, that you're probably going to hear more about the property tax going away. It is unlikely, of course, as income property investors here, property tax is largely built into the rent. It is passed along to your tenant, and a small reduction would help you out, probably not so much on your cash flow side, since most of these proposals are only for primary residences, but even a small property tax reduction on primary residences that would boost all property values, even rental property in the one to four unit space. But you shouldn't expect much here. If property taxes are eliminated, there is just no easy and viable replacement. That's your answer today, if you represent a company that serves real estate investors get rich. Education has over 3 million IAB certified downloads and 5.8 million total listener downloads. You can learn more about advertising on the show at getricheducation.com/ad, that's get rich education.com/ad   Speaker 2  37:51   for the production team here at GRE, that's our sound engineer, bedroom jampo, who has edited every single GRE podcast episode since 2014 QC and show notes Brenda Almendariz, video lead, Binaya Gyawali, strategy Tallah Mugal, video editor, Saroza KC and producer me, we'll run it back next week for you. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, Don't Quit Your Daydream.   Speaker 3  38:17   nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  38:45   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, getricheducation.com  

Robert Kiyosaki and business experts warn that the biggest crash in human history hasn't just been predicted—it's already started. From the "Great Reset" to the shadow moves of billionaires like Warren Buffett, the global economy is being re-engineered before our eyes. This episode breaks down why the masses are about to lose everything and the exact physical assets you need to hold to thrive while the banking system burns BEST MOMENTS "Make no mistake, the financial apocalypse is coming... Robert Kiyosaki believes that this will be the biggest crash in history. In fact, he believes it's already started". "Banks can take money directly from your bank account. I have had banks take hundreds of thousands of pounds off of me directly without asking me and without telling me... This stuff is not George Orwell 1984; it is 2026". "Billionaires, they buy gold and silver and they hope it doesn't go up in value. So it's a hedge against a property crash, a stock market crash, and an economic crash". Exclusive community & resources:   For more EXCLUSIVE & unfiltered content to make, manage & multiply more money, join our private online education platform: Money.School →⁠ ⁠⁠https://money.school⁠   And if you'd like to meet 7 & 8 figure entrepreneurs, & scale to 6, 7 or 8 figures in your business or personal income, join us at our in-person Money Maker Summit Event (including EXCLUSIVE millionaire guests/masterminds sessions)  →⁠ ⁠⁠https://robmoore.live/mms⁠ 

Keith explores why the real goal of building wealth isn't luxury—it's protecting yourself from the emotional and practical pain of money stress.  You'll hear how owning the right kinds of assets can change your lifestyle options over time, and why waiting on the sidelines can quietly erode your financial future. Keith also pulls back the curtain on a major, often overlooked force that has helped keep real estate values resilient for years, and what that means for anyone thinking about adding more property to their portfolio.  Finally, you'll get a sense of the kinds of opportunities and strategies listeners are using right now to move from just getting by to playing to win in their wealth building journey. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/587 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, more important than building wealth is avoiding poverty. It's backed up by research. Learn about a force that constantly gives a boost to real estate values that you probably haven't considered before, and own assets or get left behind. I discuss a plan for doing it today on get rich education.   Speaker 1  0:29   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:14   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:30   Welcome to GRE from Dar es Salaam Tanzania to Darlington, South Carolina, and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education the voice of real estate investing since 2014 and it's a new year, part of the reason why you need to build durable wealth for yourself is actually not to be wealthy. It's really to avoid a lack of wealth. It's in order to pad yourself against poverty. Now, shortly, I want to talk to you more aspirationally if you are or soon plan to make 500k per year or more.    Keith Weinhold  2:15   But first, there are a number of studies that show that beyond a certain level, more wealth barely increases your happiness level. In fact, if you ask many people, they say that doubling their income or doubling their net worth is what they really want, like, that's their goal. Like, in their mind, that's the benchmark in which they've made it. And you know what, when they double their income, though, then they want to double it again. They think that that is the next benchmark. So there can be this endless amount of wanting, because once you've doubled, you just want to keep doubling. But what's really more important is padding against money problems, because if having a little more doesn't change your happiness much, well, it's poverty that can really diminish a level of happiness and fulfillment in your life. So money problems don't just hurt your wallet. They actually hurt your emotions. And this isn't just some motivational poster idea, the statistics are clear. Multiple studies show that when money is scarce, when paying the regular bills feels like a monthly street fight, people report more sadness, more worry and even depression, not just sometimes, but constantly. The reality is that about 71% of Americans say that money is a major source of stress. My gosh, more than seven out of 10. So that's not a fringe category. That's the norm that say money is a major source of stress. Another study found that 42% of adults say money negatively affects their mental health. So close to half of the people walking around you right now feel emotionally beat up by their financial situation, and the gap gets even wider when you compare groups, when people experience serious financial hardship, nearly half, 49% show signs of depression among people without any financial hardship, only about 11% of that group show signs of depression. And Northwestern Mutual did an extensive study on all this. So it's not just a small difference, it's a completely different emotional reality, almost like two separate worlds. To put it plainly. For you, money will not guarantee happiness, but a lack of money can absolutely fuel sadness, and this matters. Because financial confidence isn't just about dollars. It's about dignity. It's about feeling like you're able to breathe, and it's about believing that your future can be bigger than your past. I mean, the research also shows the relationship flows in both directions. Money stress can make mental health worse, and poor mental health can make financial decision making harder. So it's sort of this loop, this cycle. And what breaks the cycle? It's not luck. It's not hoping the economy magically fixes all of its problems. It is going on offense, taking steps that build security instead of surrender, for most people, that turning point comes when they start owning assets, not just paying bills. It comes when money stops being a source of fear and it starts being a tool. Because though we focus on real estate investing here at GRE but ultimately it is a lifestyle improvement show. And before we're done today, I'm going to talk about what you can actionably do to go on offense. Now, what if you already have a higher income, or you expect to make a high income in the near term, if you're earning roughly $500,000 per year or more, and you value time efficiency in making sure that you don't live a rough quality of life. You are on the threshold of a tier that helps ensure that you can avoid some misery. Yes, there is a step change here that can help ensure you have a higher standard of living. Do you know what I might be talking about? Any idea 500k of income is where it begins now. It's only beginning here. At this point, to make sense, where you tilt into starting to fly private instead of flying commercial. Yeah, private flights. Now your situation is going to depend on more than just the income. It's whether or not you're single or you have kids and more, but it's at this income level where you can start to cover a $10,000 flight without biting into your essential living expenses. It's most justifiable when your time savings or your productivity gains translate into real value. I'm talking about things like business deals, meetings and schedules and the benefits of flying privately are pretty significant. Time efficiency is the real superpower here, drive up to the plane, wheels up in minutes. The flexibility is there. You can leave pretty much when you want. You can change your flight plans mid trip if you need to. You get access to smaller airports. That means you can land closer to your final destination and skip big city traffic congestion. You've got privacy and security, no crowds, no TSA stuff. You've got quality of experience, comfort, quiet cabins, custom catering, no competing for overhead bin space. Now even affordable private is still pretty expensive. It is substantially more than first class commercial seats, and I have had limited experience flying private, but at 500k of income, flying private can still feel like a stretch, even though it's doable for you, a more comfortable range is a million dollars or more of annual income, that's when private flights feel much easier to justify for business or lifestyle. Now, with $2 million of annual income or more, most heavy private flyers live here in this range, the $2 million plus income level, they can charter, they can fractionally own, or they can use memberships, all with less stress. When you earn this much, and if you're ultra high net worth, we're talking about $5 million worth of income plus or $20 million worth of net worth plus, well, then private flying is really commonplace. This is where you often have a personal jet, concierge services and flexibility on demand. So as the first episode of the year here, I want to give you some opportunity to dream and goal set. Yeah, you need to stretch out and give space to your aspirations sometimes, and this is a good time to do that, really, though, a more important reason for increasing your income and net worth is that it helps you avoid the discomfort of poverty. But yeah, come on, if nothing else, can you believe that before every commercial flight you have to hear that nonsense about how to inflate a raft if you're. Plane crashes in the water, or you could use your seat as a personal flotation device. Come on your seat. Can't even support your back for a three hour flight. If there's ever been a reason to invest Well, it's so that you never have to hear that stuff again before every flight chase    Keith Weinhold  10:19   last week here on the show, you'll learn more about how stable real estate prices are, why prices have never crashed in your entire life, and also why they can't double in one year. Real Estate is too slow moving 30 days between you making your offer and you closing the deal, that's actually considered pretty fast. In fact, if national home prices ever crash, I will legally change my first name to Fabrice, yes, Fabrice, I would also do that if they doubled in a year. It is almost impossible for either of those things to happen. You learned about how these things have not happened in your entire lifetime on last week's show, yes, even in 2008 in the last 85 years, nominal home prices have risen every single year, except seven of them now. Why is that? Why are the prices of US housing so resilient and just keep going up up up, almost inexorably? Well, it's actually more than just the main well documented reasons that you know about and that we've talked about here. It's about more than these attributes, like population growth, household formation, wage growth, inflation, eroding the currency and land scarcity in desirable areas beyond all of those, one reason that home values just keep going up, up up and are expected to rise again this year is something that We have not discussed yet, and that is government intervention? Yes, in the US and a lot of world places, housing is not a free market. We have a free ish market that sort of comes with training wheels and support animals. Think about how the government helps ensure that home prices stay propped up even through most recessions. We're talking about attributes like ever expanding loan access and mortgage interest deductibility. Then there's depreciation in write offs for investors like us and property tax structures that lag market value when loans have lower down payment requirements or a lowering of credit score requirements and ever expanding loan limits in terms of dollar amounts, well, that increases the demand for those that have the capacity to pay, and it nudges up prices even more incentives, like deducting your mortgage interest in tax depreciation when you don't even have a real expense, but yet you get to write it off anyway. It all heaps on the government driven demand for real estate Now none of these individual things, these government interventions, raise prices overnight, they increase demand structurally. There's evidence that the government is doing even more in recent years to prop up housing demand than they have in the past. This is increasingly a propensity to not let housing fail like it did in 2008 I mean, just look at covid During 2020, and 2021, what a glaring example of how government will prop up home values and not let them fall down if you lost your job during covid. Oh, we'll give you mortgage loan forbearance. That's where you could skip. Oh, just say nine monthly payments, and then you can just tack those nine payments onto the end of your 30 year loan and make those payments decades from now. There was a foreclosure moratorium in effect then too, so you've got forbearance and low rates and stimulus checks and a ban on foreclosures. Well, all of that helped borrowers make payments, and that supported home price growth. There was no fire sailing, really, that could have taken place then, and you will recall that during that time period, in fact, the year 2021 national home prices soared 19% so housing is not a completely free market. You really don't have to look very far to know that. I mean, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are both still government sponsored and still in conservatorship. And here's the thing, so far, I've only talked about how government has propped up the demand side. Side of the market. I've only talked about half of it. Don't forget the sometimes unintentional supply restriction the governments induce as well keeping housing supply in check. Well, that helps drive price appreciation. I'm talking about the zoning spaghetti that new homebuilders have to navigate through the permit purgatory, minimum lot sizes that can seem larger than some European countries, environmental reviews that last longer than the movie Avengers. Endgame was that a three hour, two minute movie, all of these roadblocks limit new housing supply that makes it harder to build. So governments provide an ever present tailwind to housing values by both boosting demand and by crimping supply. Government amplifies these forces, sometimes intentionally and sometimes unintentionally, but the result is the same propping up housing values. If all these years since coming out of the Great Recession have shown us anything, and the 2020 pandemic reinforced it, it is to either own assets or get left behind. You've got to own assets or you will be left behind, and that's whether you're trying to stay away from poverty, like I talked about at the top of the show, or whether you're aiming to fly private instead of commercial, something more aspirational, really. That's the lesson I've got more straight ahead here. There will only ever be one get rich education podcast episode 587 and you're listening to it.    Keith Weinhold  16:43   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach directly again. 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  17:54   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Dana Dunford  18:27   this is hemlane's co founder, Dana Dunford. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. You Keith,   Keith Weinhold  18:45   welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, we're talking about new angles with respect to how the future belongs to asset owners. Every year, people say, This is my year, but only a few actually take the action to back that up and make it come true. One thing that I've learned is that people love saying, I want an opportunity, but what they really want is certainty. Unfortunately, certainty only shows up after opportunity is gone. History is full of people who walked past moments like this now owning more of an asset like real estate today, and instead they just look and say, Oh, it's probably nothing. Well, what about alternatives? What's your employer's plan for you? I mean, really, what's a typical employer's plan for employees spend 40 years here at this desk, and I guarantee that you'll become moderately comfortable with a nice 401K balance that you can start withdrawing from by the time you're age 65 at which time you'll start paying taxes on it too. So really, that's it. That's their plan for you. Yes, that's their plan for you. Though, as you know, I do not forecast mortgage rates. No one, not one analyst or rating agency, expects mortgage rates to fall substantially any time soon as we look at the real estate landscape, in fact, among 21 different major research groups, which include PNC Bank, Redfin, Moody's, wells, Fargo, the NAR totality, if you average what their forecasts are, one year from now, mortgage rates are expected to be at the same level that they are today, which is about 6.2% if you want to add more assets, prices are probably only going to be higher one year from now. The Fed is involved in QE like behavior again, which resumed last month, that gives the effect of more money printing, and it provides an environment for a continued price run up across not just real estate, but nearly every asset class. Current CPI inflation is 2.7% and long term inflation expectations are elevated. The Fed is cutting rates. The current Fed funds rate is about 3.6% and the President wants the Fed funds rate cut to 1% central banks are stockpiling gold, and the US dollar just had its worst year since 2017 so a lot is lining up to keep supporting housing values. Now, when we zoom out, starting back in 2012 us home prices have now risen 14 years in a row, and the average annual gain since that time is about 6% which is sustainable and close to historic norms. Year after year. Some people keep waiting for the right moment, and meanwhile, the right moment just keeps passing them by. And look, now here's a really interesting way for you to look at things from a long time investor like me, I have bought a wide variety of investment real estate over the years. I bought single family homes to both live in and single family homes to rent out vacant land, agricultural parcels, small apartment buildings and larger apartment buildings on every single one at the time when I purchased it, it was the most that anyone had ever paid for that property in that property's history, and if there were bids and I ended up getting the property, then I was the highest bidder as well. So on. Effectively, every single property purchase of my life, I paid more than anyone ever. And if someone had no understanding of the real estate market. They might think that that sounded bad, like I executed with a poor strategy or a lack of experience or direction, but that's just usually how it works in real estate, with the incessant postulation of almost unceasing appreciation and inflation, and years later, when it was time for me to sell the property, what were those conditions like? What happened then? You guessed it, I sold it for the most that it had ever sold for. So for that next buyer, that was the most then that anyone had ever paid for the property in history, yet again, and if it was a bidding situation, chances are I sold it to the highest bidder. So therefore, that has nothing to do with luck, that has nothing to do with timing, that is simply being an active participant in the real estate market and enjoying the leverage and all the other benefits all the while. So history shows that trying to time things based on market conditions or what you think market conditions are going to be, that does not work. What does work is owning more assets sooner. Every property that you purchase, expect to pay more for it than anyone ever has in that property's history. And then every property that you sell down the road, expect that you're going to sell it for more than what anyone has ever sold it for. Historically, that is normal. Now if your net worth is below $1 million or even below $5 million you really can't play the game not to lose. That's what keeps people stuck. You've got to play to win. The world already has your money. If you want access to it, you have simply got to go out. Out and get it. You play offense now, and you can play defense later, when your financial position is where you want it really and here's a huge insight, more money is lost trying to avoid a downturn than is lost actually being in the market when one finally happens, like I've discussed lately, real estate price downturns are uncommon. Sitting out and waiting is a wealth killer, because even if a downturn does happen, well, if you're already invested, you are positioned for the upturn. You're going to get the full measure of the upturn. That's where the real gains are, and this is where real estate is different. Leverage just keeps working for you. In the background, your 401, k does not do that. There's no leverage beyond maybe a two to one employer match, and then you get taxed when you finally touch the money. Some people like to gamble a little play a prediction market like poly market. Have something in Bitcoin, maybe even have exposure to a risky altcoin. I guess the NFL playoffs start this coming weekend. Some people want to bet on that and have their fun. Maybe even be invested in a high flying tech stock, or even the sp500. These vehicles rarely build wealth when you're actually young enough to enjoy it, because you're probably unleveraged there, you're exposed. You've only got your dollars working for you, not others, and you sure can do some of that day to day stuff. Go on polymarket and bet on when man will first land on Mars or something. Have your fun while the real wealth is built by the quiet, slow moving leverage of your larger real estate portfolio. In the background. Real estate, you can put 20 to 25% down on a 200k income property and control the whole thing. That's what investors are doing with our GRE marketplace properties right now, often in a low cost market like, say, Kansas City or Memphis, say that, for example, you're looking to add four doors this year, four rental units. Now that might take the form of one duplex and two new build Florida single family rentals. Now, with about 250k you can control $1 million of property adding assets this year. And here at GRE our nationwide provider network connects you with the real deals, and our providers often tell us about them before the public knows, for example, the properties where the builder still in this environment buys your rate down to perhaps four and a half percent. That is still happening. And why do the properties that our GRE investment coaches connect you with seem like such good deals at times? Well, there's a few reasons for that. Investor advantage markets just intrinsically have low prices. There's no agent that you have to compensate. It's a direct model that keeps the price down. These providers provide homes in bulk that helps keep the price down. And since we're dealing with investment properties, income producing properties, there are not any of these owner occupied emotions, so you don't get unreasonable sellers that hold out for a high price because there's some sentimental attachment there, or something like that.    Keith Weinhold  28:38   Let me give you three examples of real properties that our GRE investment coaching helps connect you with right now, and this is the place to be entry level homes, because entry level homes are few long term you are going to own a scarce asset that everybody wants. The first one is a brand new build single family rental in Cullman, Alabama. That's right between Birmingham and Huntsville, booming Huntsville. Now this property is currently vacant. However, it's in an A class neighborhood, so good appreciation potential, but less cash flow on this one, the rent is $2,100 the purchase price is 317k Yes, just 317k for this five bed, three bath, 2500 square foot rental, single family home. That's new build. One advantage Alabama has, and why we often have available Alabama properties is that really low property tax in that state you're going to benefit from a low fixed expense ratio over the long term. Alabama, property taxes are well under 1% per year as a percentage of the property value. In fact, at less than 410 Tax of 1% Alabama has the lowest property taxes in the entire continental United States. Only Hawaii has a lower one, where you're going to find a national average of 1% or a little more than 1% the second property is also brand new construction. It is a duplex in Goddard, Kansas, which is outside Wichita, each side of the duplex has three beds, two baths and 1300 68 square feet combined. Rents both sides are $3,500 and the purchase price is 447k and it is leased. Both sides are rented out. You can contact our free investment coaching and scoop up this or one like it today, and I'm looking at pictures of this really good looking new build duplex in the Wichita area. Looks like a two car garage on both sides, really attractive. And again, on these new builds, oftentimes the homebuilder is still buying down your mortgage rate for you, often under 5% the last one I'll mention, and I'm just giving you three samples to help give you an idea here. And if you're listening to this in a few years, you'll probably wish you could purchase these at prices this low. This last one is not new builds. Unfortunately, I can't quickly find the year of construction, but it looks older. It is a Kansas City single family rental, fully renovated. The cash flow numbers are super attractive. $2,100 rent on a purchase price of just $227,500 and free property management for two years is offered here on this renovated Kansas single family rental. Our investment coaching can answer questions about it for you. When something's renovated, you definitely want to see what the scope of work is. And there are also larger properties available. If you're looking to trade up some of your properties with accumulated equity into something else, we can help build an entire portfolio for you, or you might currently be only invested in one market, where we can help you determine what second market might make sense for you based on your time horizon and your own goals. Hey, maybe you've got a private plane in a decade kind of goal, or maybe we'll help you find out that adding more property does not make sense for you at this time in your situation, even though the opportunities are pretty good right now, because compared to two years ago, the inventory to select from is wider today, And the mortgage rates are lower now too GRE investment coaches are your free trusted advisors. It's like having a silent partner on your deal, someone who gives you insight but doesn't take any equity. There's no compensation for you to provide at all. It's about your portfolio, your goals and your direction. And our coaches also help you with services related to managing your real estate assets long term, like your tax and CPA questions, legal questions, though, that's pretty limited, because we're not attorneys here. For example, what happens if you have an appraisal surprise and the appraisal comes in lower than the amount that you've contracted to buy a property for, we help you with something like that, any inventory issues or inspection issues and property management guidance that you might need. In fact, if you've engaged with our free investment coaching in the past, even a few years ago, and we helped you find a property and say, now you have some sort of property management issue. Let us know. Keep in touch with your GRE investment coach. You tell someone like Naresh here, and he will step in. And when you set up a time to chat, which you can do at greinvestmentcoach.com There's really nothing special that you need to do to prepare if you can bring a 20% down payment. Now the ball is already rolling, and in today's environment with closing costs, that's usually about a 50k minimum. It helps if you're pre approved for a mortgage loan with Ridge lending group, or whomever your lender of choice is. What's interesting is that these deals are good. These are real estate pays five ways, properties that our coaches help connect you with. So sometimes we are buying these properties ourselves here at GRE. We have in the past, but there is no way we can buy them all, not even close. That means that an opportunity remains for you. Yes, we are real estate investors ourselves here at GRE, right now, there are better properties available than ones that we've bought ourselves recently, and there is more overall selection too. You can easily see the coach's calendar, select a time and then have a phone call or a zoom chat, whatever you like. If. From there. Our coaches usually give you their phone number, so then later, you can even text them. Our coach, Naresh, he responded to someone on Thanksgiving. That's the level of dedication here. So here's the next step. Book a time at GREinvestmentcoach.com you can do that now. That's where the calendar lives. There's no back and forth. Just pick a time right there that works. It's Free. Select a 30 minute time slot, and lately they've been available seven days a week. And you're going to walk away with clarity on your goals, your timeline and what's realistic for you, if you're tired of watching from the sidelines, tired of trying not to lose, tired of waiting for perfect conditions, and conditions are never perfect, well, this is your moment to play to win. It's pretty easy to remember to connect with a GRE investment coach. Visit greinvestmentcoach.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  36:10   Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  36:38   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get richeducation.com  

The Elevator Pitch Recipe: Crafting Marketing Messaging That Stops the ScrollGuest: Katie Lantukh, Founder of Murphy Marketing Host: Julie RigaOverviewIn this transformative episode, Julie Riga sits down with Katie Lantukh, founder of Murphy Marketing, to decode the art of the perfect elevator pitch. Katie reveals her proven recipe for creating marketing messaging that captures attention and inspires action. Together, they explore the critical ingredients every business leader needs to craft an elevator pitch that opens doors, builds connections, and creates opportunities. This episode is essential listening for entrepreneurs, executives, and anyone seeking clarity in their professional messaging and leadership presence.The Elevator Pitch Recipe: Crafting Marketing Messaging That Stops the ScrollAbout Katie LantukhKatie Lantukh is the founder of Murphy Marketing, where she and her team of messaging specialists help businesses create marketing messaging that stops the scroll and starts conversations. Katie specializes in helping entrepreneurs and business leaders gain clarity on what to say and where to say it—from foundational brand messaging to strategic placement across websites, landing pages, email, blogs, and LinkedIn.Fun Fact: Katie's favorite food is Mexican food, especially tacos—her household celebrates Taco Tuesday and Margarita Monday!The Fire Brigade FrameworkKatie introduces her powerful metaphor: your elevator pitch should be like a bucket of water being passed down a fire brigade line—easy for people to hold onto and pass along to others. Your message must be simple enough to remember, clear enough to repeat, and compelling enough to share.The 7 Essential IngredientsWhat You Do - Start with clarity, not your job titleThe Outcome - Focus on the transformation people experienceWho You Serve - Define your ideal client clearly; set boundariesThe Problem - Lead with the challenge your audience facesTiming & Flexibility - Develop 10-second, 30-second, 2-minute, and 5-minute versionsWhy You & Why Now - Showcase expertise and create urgencySimplicity - Less is always more; make your audience feel smart, not lostKey InsightsThe Two Signs Your Pitch Works:They ask a follow-up question: "How does that work?"They immediately make connections: "Oh, do you know...?"Avoid the Laundry List Trap: Don't try to explain everything you do. Focus on one clear problem and solution. Save comprehensive details for the actual sales conversation.The Power of Parameters: Setting clear boundaries on who you serve doesn't exclude people—it attracts the right ones.Julie's "Take the Mic" StoryJulie shares attending a Patrick Bet-David event with 10,000 attendees. She intentionally stepped up to a camera crew and "took the mic"—resulting in her appearing on the event's signup page alongside The Rock and Robert Kiyosaki as the only woman featured. The lesson: Success comes to those willing to step up when opportunity strikes.Memorable Quotes"If you've done this elevator pitch well, you will have a follow-up question.""You really get like one minute to make an impression.""If you wanna be a business owner and you are wanting to be successful, you have to be ready to take the mic."Key TakeawaysLead with the problem your ideal client faces, not your credentialsCreate space for conversation—your goal is to inspire a follow-up questionHave multiple versions of your pitch ready for different contextsTest and refine continuously based on body language and responsesDon't whisper your value—own your message and your momentConnect with Katie LantukhLinkedIn: Where Katie spends most of her timeWebsite: murphy.marketingConnect with Julie RigaPodcast: Stay On Course PodcastPrograms: Before I LeadWebsite: julieriga.com/lead

Dr. Tudor Francu is a Romanian-born anesthesiologist and real estate investor with over 15 years of experience. After immigrating to the U.S. at age 28 and building a successful medical practice, Tudor began investing in real estate—starting with single-family homes before transitioning into multifamily syndications. He has managed 30+ properties, overseen operations on multifamily assets, and now serves as a general partner in large-scale apartment deals. Tudor is the founder of Stellar Multifamily and host of the Stellar Success Podcast.     Make sure to download our free guide, 7 Questions Every Passive Investor Should Ask, here.     Key Takeaways: Investing with the right people is more important than the projected returns Being a passive investor first can be a strategic way to learn syndication before becoming a general partner Vertically integrated operators are more likely to succeed than those who outsource key roles Clear, frequent, and transparent communication is the hallmark of a great sponsor Taking action—even imperfectly—is essential for success in real estate     Topics From Romania to Real Estate How Tudor transitioned from anesthesiologist to real estate investor The financial mindset inherited from growing up in a communist country How Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad Poor Dad shaped his investment journey Starting Small, Scaling Smart Why he began with single-family homes What prompted the leap into multifamily How he built comfort through small wins before scaling Passive Investing as a Learning Strategy Tudor's reasons for starting as an LP What he learned from both good and bad operators Why passive investing is crucial for risk-aware growth Becoming a General Partner What it took to make the transition The critical role of transparency and communication A candid story about walking away from a deal days before closing Vertically Integrated Teams Why vertical integration improves success rates The operational advantages of in-house management Lessons from bad deals with third-party vendors Lessons on Leadership and Communication Why leasing agents are the most important people on-site Structuring compensation to align with asset performance What investors should really ask sponsors before committing    

At just 7 years old, Hannah Hammond was told her family couldn't afford a McFlurry. That single moment of scarcity sparked a fire that would lead her to become a millionaire by age 25.In this episode of Escaping the Drift, John Gafford sits down with Hannah to break down exactly how she went from an insecure "ugly duckling" to a powerhouse entrepreneur with her own national finance and real estate companies. She shares the surreal experience of being mentored by Rich Dad Poor Dad author Robert Kiyosaki, why she walked away from a safe engineering career to bet on herself, and the $10,000 investment she made when she was broke that changed everything.If you feel stuck in a scarcity mindset or think you're too young to build massive wealth, this episode is your wake-up call.In this episode, we cover:The "McFlurry Moment" that defined her financial future.How she connected with Robert Kiyosaki and Joe Polish.Why "Energetic Intelligence" is more important than IQ.Overcoming the "Imposter Syndrome" of young success.Chapter Titles & Timestamps00:00 – Intro: The 7-Year-Old Who Decided to Be Rich02:15 – Meeting Robert Kiyosaki & The "Rich Dad" Influence07:17 – The McFlurry Story: When Ambition Was Born13:45 – Quitting Engineering to Sell Real Estate19:30 – The "Rich Dad" Family vs. The "Poor Dad" Reality24:10 – Investing $10k in Coaching When You're Broke32:00 – Mastering "Energetic Intelligence" & Self-Worth38:45 – Navigating Relationships & Ego as an Entrepreneur45:00 – Final Advice: How to Stop Drifting

Keith shares a mindset-shifting quote from John D. Rockefeller that challenges the idea of trading time for money.  He revisits some of the year's most powerful real estate investing lessons, and breaks down the big forces shaping today's housing market—affordability, supply & demand, demographics, and interest rates.  All of this sets the stage for his data-driven national home price outlook for next year—without the usual crash-and-doom hype. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/586 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:00   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, learn from a quote attributed to the world's first billionaire, it will change how you see wealth building. I'll explain why national home prices have never crashed. Then it's gre, 2026, home price appreciation forecast. You'll learn the future the exact percent that home prices will appreciate or depreciate next year. Today on get rich education   Speaker 1  0:29   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:14   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:30   Welcome to GRE from Lake Huron, Michigan to Lake Tahoe, California and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education. You know something I love, quotes that shift your entire mindset, paradigm, and once your mind is shifted, actions follow. Actions develop into patterns. Those patterns become habits, and habits become the new, transformed you few quotes hit harder than the one from resource tycoon John D Rockefeller. He lived from 1839 to 1937 in fact, Rockefeller is widely regarded as the world's first billionaire. His quote, you might have heard it before. It is this, he who works all day has no time to make money. That sounds paradoxical, even provocative. It's sort of like it's inviting you to come in and want to learn more about it. And this is because most people's concept of income generating is to work 40 hours a week for a salary or an hourly wage. But what does that quote really mean? He who works all day has no time to make money, and be sure to capture the all day part of that quote that ties right back into the show that I did with you two weeks ago about the K shaped economy breakdown, where you learned about how capital compounds labor doesn't most people sell their time for dollars, but trading time for money makes you too busy to actually build Wealth. Working and building wealth. Those things are two separate distinct activities in how you're investing your time and energy. Now, most people start out with a wage or a salary job. I surely worked by pushing brooms and cubicle dwelling before investing in my first rental property. But if you're working all day in a job, physically or mentally well, then you're consumed by tasks that only pay you. Once you're occupied, you can often get exhausted and you're only concerned with short term output. You're focused on the next deadline, not the next decade, when all your hours are spent on labor, you have no bandwidth to do what you need to do, which is, create vision, acquire assets, build a portfolio, develop systems, learn tax strategy, evaluate investment deals, network with like minded investors, or refine your strategy with a GRE investment coach. Be cognizant that labor only pays today. Wealth building pays forever. Even if your work a day job, salary doubled, you would have to ask, how would that even build wealth? You could retire earlier, but you would have to keep working the hours, and let's remember that wealth equals freedom. You can't architect a wealth plan from the assembly line. Now, that's something that Rockefeller would have agreed with. Wealth requires less. Leverage and labor has none. So working all day means no leverage. You are the engine instead making money, that means using leverage, and instead of you being the engine, well, the engine is something else, like assets, systems, technology, other people's time, other people's money, and borrowing to inflation profit. Rockefeller believed and proved that leverage beats labor 100 to one. He's not discouraging work. In fact, it's just the wrong type of work, because he was one of the hardest working people alive. And really the bottom line here, with this quote, he who works all day has no time to make money, is that Rockefeller meant that if you spend your life doing tasks, you'll never rise high enough to own things that pay you for life. Earning a living is a different activity than building wealth, and once your mindset is shifted, actions follow, yep, actions develop into patterns, and those patterns become the new you. well as the last episode of the year on the show here, 52 weeks worth, I sure hope that I've helped you think, learn and grow your wealth, as have our guest contributors here early in the year, the father of Reaganomics was here, a man that frequently advised a president inside the White House. He told us how much he dislikes tariffs. Tariffs block free trade, and trade improves our lives. Major apartment investor, Ken McElroy, was here this year, and he predicted that the American home ownership rate will fall below 60% that would be major it's currently at 65 if the home ownership rate falls to 60% that would unleash millions of new renters into the market, and it has not been that low in decades, if ever you got a lot of mortgage insights with chailey Ridge, including learning how you can qualify for income property loans without a w2 job, without a pay stub or without tax returns by instead getting a DSCR loan. You'll recall this year that I discussed 50 year mortgages, and I did that before it even hit the news cycle, telling you that it could be coming and that it could be proposed. I explained why I like 50 year mortgages more than 30 year loans, but be aware it is not imminent that they're coming. Also this year, economist Richard Duncan and commentator Doug Casey discussed the Fed. Richard told us how the President is trying to totally restructure who serves on the Fed, trying to get low interest rate pushers in there. And then just last week, Doug and I discussed how fed decisions just keep hollowing out the middle class. A and E television star Todd drillette told us how to negotiate. I had four good discussions with our own investment coach, nuresh this year, more than usual, a pastor and I discussed a rare topic, what the Bible says about money. You learned how to use AI in your real estate investing and when not to. We had a few episodes about that. But above all the shows this year, they were about you, probably more than any other year that we've had here. I did more listener question episodes where I answered your questions as you wrote in, and I also had more listeners come right onto the show and tell me how this show has personally built their wealth. And of course, this year, I got to meet more of you in person when I served as a faculty member on the terrific real estate guys Investor Summit to see and I got to meet you personally for more than just a handshake. The event was set up so that chances are you had dinner with me as well. So rather than this show being a one way chat from me to you this year was more of a dialog between you and I and more two way communication. A lot of new topics are coming for next year, both me teaching and some great guests. If there's something on the show that you'd like to hear more of or less of, let us know. Write into us or use your voice to tell us either way you can do that. At get rich education.com/contact, let us know what you want to hear more of or less of. Do you like shorter term tactics like when and how to increase the rent? Or do you like mid range tactics like how to constantly do cash out refinances and get a tax free windfall from your properties every year. Or do you like more of the long term strategies like specifically how you profit from inflation? Let us know what you like again, at get rich education.com/contact, now, even if you're listening 10 years. Years from now, which I know you very well. May, I'm going to break down next year's home price appreciation forecast, but I'll do it in a way where you'll learn how to analyze a market for all time coming up. It's gre 2026, national home price appreciation forecast. Learn the future to the exact percent. First listen to this from Freedom family investments and Ridge lending group, because I'm a client of both myself and they can help you. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold   Keith Weinhold  10:29   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family, investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Speaker 2  11:40   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Robert Kiyosaki  12:14   this is our Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Author Robert Kiyosaki. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold. And there is, I respect Kate. He's a very strong, smart, bright young man.   Keith Weinhold  12:35   Welcome back to get rich education. It's episode 586 the last show of the year. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I am proud to present to you in this segment of the show gre 2026, national home price appreciation forecast, where I use my insight and experience so that you'll learn the exact percent that national home prices will either appreciate or depreciate next year. It's the fifth consecutive year that we're doing this. I nailed the first three spot on and then this year happened. I'll get to reviewing my track record, total accountability. First understand something, real estate values have never crashed in your entire lifetime, even if you're 90 years old, to grab eyeballs, slack jawed, tick tock. Call them crash talk. Economists keep making awful predictions about a housing price crash, and none of them have been worse than one that published last month in Newsweek, which outlines a as it's called, correction worse than 2008 and says national home prices will fall 50% five zero, starting as soon as next year. That's absurd, and I can't believe that a respectable publication would platform a view from an analyst like that, and I'm not going to call out that Doomsayer analyst's name. That's not my style. I'm sure you can find it that crash is about as likely as one social media post changing your political affiliation later today. Look, doomsayers don't care about you. They make dire predictions because they care about them. It elevates their clicks, their followers and their name recognition, and they never hang around to follow up on that prediction, but it harms you, because you miss out on the equity gains, and that's the real damage. In fact, this particular analyst also called for this year to have the second largest home price decline since World War Two. Well, national home prices have only fallen twice in that time period. In fact, going further back. Back to the 1930s Great Depression. They've only fallen twice. Yes, that means home prices have risen every single year since the 1930s except for two periods, a small decline of less than 1% around 1990 and then, of course, the severe downturn from the housing bubble and great recession from 2007 to 2011 or 2012 that's where prices dropped in total, 25 to 26% from peak to trough. Now why do I say that that period around 2008 was not a housing price crash. Well, because it wasn't. Instead, it was a slow bleed. The definition of financial crash is a sudden, sharp and widespread drop in prices. That's the definition. Well that can happen in some other asset classes like stocks or Bitcoin or perhaps even precious metals, but not real estate. It is neither sudden nor sharp. The worst year, 2008 saw home prices drop 12% in that one year and some of the other years bracketing it, home prices fell three to 4% in each of those years. So then during this time period of price attrition, during the global financial crisis, each month, real estate values fell just a few tenths of 1% maybe half of 1% or even one full percent, not a crash, a slow bleed. This means that it took about five years for values to fall, a total of near 25% I mean, that makes it really clear that it's not a crash. And again, this period was about 2007 to 2012 don't get me wrong, it was bad. I was a real estate investor both before and during 2008 but to call it a crash is hyperbolic, and that is because words mean things. I think a lot of media consumers get so conditioned to mass media sensationalism that they've forgotten what a crash even means. At some point, it begins to bend our very lexicon back around 2007 I remember I frequently checked a website called implode meter. Yeah, that's the name of it. It tracks, failing banks. I looked the other day and implodemeter.com is still in existence, even though it's not nearly as spicy as it used to be during the GFC, because lending has been pretty stable for a long time, and loans are well and carefully underwritten. So home prices are unusually stable over time, because, in a sense, housing is not a normal market. It is slow, regulated, credit driven, and it's emotionally sticky, even though rental property is less emotional. Well, the values of one to four unit property are tied to primary residence values, and that's where the emotion exists. So if you put all those together, you get prices that creep upward most years and rarely fall at all. Nationally. The real estate market moves too gradually to be crash susceptible. It is the place for real wealth building values also are not going to double annually if you want to scroll for dopamine hits from the couch. Well, you can do that with a prediction market like call she or in crypto with altcoins, while your real estate keeps leveraging dollars in a stable way in the background. That's how you can think about it. All right, so we've established since the Great Depression, home values have fallen twice and once substantially. Well, right now, home prices are up about 2% year over year. Most places have appreciated, especially the more affordable markets. Not only has home price growth been slow, though, rent growth has been slow as well. Single Family rents are up 1% per totality. Apartment rents are down one to 2% per Zumper. But back to our focus today, forecasting national home prices. Everything we're discussing is nominal price change, meaning not inflation adjusted, and it's single family homes up to fourplexes. Well, as we use context to build up to the big reveal today, where I'll tell you the exact percent that home prices will rise or fall next year. Could 2008 happen again any time soon? Let's isolate that out. It's important to look at history rather than. Having some uninformed hunch in both periods with price attrition around 1990 and 2008 these two falls have some attributes in common. So let's look at that. What led to these rare falls in home prices, irresponsible lending, forced selling, a vacancy issue and overbuilding. All four of those factors were in place during those two periods now leading up to 1990 the irresponsible lending was on the commercial side. That was the savings and loan crisis, but it did trickle into the residential market, and then in 2008 it was on the residential side. But of all four of those factors, none of them are in place today. Zero borrowers are strongly underwritten because they've got those full documentation loans, and virtually no one is forced to sell in a fire sale. In fact, homeowners still have these record equity positions of about 300k fewer than 3% of homeowners have a negative equity position, and there is no vacancy issue. Because, in fact, we've been under building. We'll look at that. So for next year, no substantial price of drawdown is coming. None's expected. We can isolate that out. Since I was investing directly in real estate through 2008 I know what happened is that when people walked away from properties, they did so because the economy got rough, their variable rate mortgages rose, they couldn't make their payments, or they just had no motivation to make their payments because they were underwater and had zero protective equity. In a lot of cases, it's almost impossible for that to happen today, homeowners can make their payments, and they're motivated to do so because they have that erstwhile equity to protect, like I said last week, through the Census Bureau data and realtor.com we know a couple things. Four in 10 homeowners have no mortgage at all. They own their property free and clear. Among the group with mortgages, 70% of borrowers still have a mortgage rate locked in at under 5% and blending those together for you means that then 82% of borrowers either have no mortgage or they've got a rate under 5% this translates to really affordable payments, along with The protective equity, even if inflation heats up again, it still cannot touch a borrower's mortgage payment amount because it is fixed. As we're leading up to the big reveal of next year's number, we're about to look at affordability, supply, demand and the effect of mortgage rates on prices. Of course, that word affordability, that has been the most central word to home buying for a couple years now, affordability will improve in three main ways. If either home prices fall, mortgage rates fall, or wages rise, it takes at least one of those three things, the good news is that this year, wages have been rising faster than both stated inflation and home prices. Wages have been rising close to 4% that looks to continue at least into the early part of next year. Well that improved affordability allows home prices to move up, and it gives room for rents to move up as well. Now when it comes to mortgage rates, if you're new to listening to me, it will be groundbreaking for you to realize that today, mortgage rates are low, and increases to mortgage rates usually lead to increases in home prices, not decreases. If you're new here, both of those facts might leave you saying what I thought it was the opposite. How can that be? I won't spend much time on this because longtime listeners already know these two things, but they do go into the forecast the long term 30 year fixed rate mortgage averages 7.7% per Freddie Mac thirst, that set goes back to 1971 and rates are lower than that now, and mortgage rates have risen 1% or more seven different times since 1994 and home prices increased all Seven times right alongside those rising mortgage rates. In fact, when rates more than doubled in 2022 what happened? Home prices soared to their highest appreciation year in a long time. It reinforced this so, yes, way higher rates equaled way. Higher prices. It's not that one directly causes the other. This is correlation versus causation. It's because rate increases confirm that the economy is doing well. I have discussed that extensively in previous episodes, so mortgage rates actually don't have that much to do with home prices, and that's why it is hardly going into the forecast for next year. I'll tell you what trying to forecast mortgage rates to then use that to predict home prices, that is a fantastic way to waste your time. Now, 1x factor that could make that different for next year is that this President, he imposes his will to make rates low no matter what. So even if the economy is good, which typically leads to higher rates, wholesale push to make rates low, and that's an artificial phenomenon. Wouldn't that make home prices boom if we had a strong economy and low rates? The fact that affordability is still historically low today, though, we appear to be off the bottom. Affordability is still historically low today, that has less to do with mortgage rates than most people think, since, again, rates are low when they're in the low sixes, like they currently are. Instead, affordability is soured, because over the long term, decades, wages haven't kept up with true inflation. That's what's really going on with affordability and what everybody misses, and because affordability is still strained, home prices cannot rise a lot, say 10 or 12% next year. That can't happen on a national basis next year, now, a bill is advancing through Congress now to make housing more affordable. It's got bipartisan support relaxing zoning requirements in such a bill that could help build more homes, but if the government tries to help by making access to loans easier, that is going to lead to even higher prices and really will not help with affordability beyond the short term. In fact, just this month, the Fed has resumed QE quantitative easing. And that effectively means that it is ramping up the number of dollars being printed. And these are just more dollars in existence coming in to chase real estate and every other assets values higher we look at the employment picture. Although unemployment has been ticking up lately, it is still low at under 5% what about housing supply versus demand? And future supply versus demand? Well, this is basic econ and it will totally affect future prices. Actually visited the home of the father of economics, Adam Smith in Scotland this year, the man that nearly invented the supply demand concept starting with supply. I think anyone in real estate knows that generally, over six months of housing supply is too much. Under six months is too little. Six months is sort of that balanced point. What does that really mean? Well, months of supply is how long it would take to sell all the homes currently for sale if no new listings came on the market. All right, that's all that means. Well, currently, that level is 4.2 months that is low, and that puts some upward pressure on prices as well. Another way to think about it is with the active listing count of single family homes and condos. All this means is the number of homes currently for sale and available to buy right now. That's what active listing count means when you see that statistic out there? Well, one and a half to 2 million is the normal level of units needed to adequately house our growing population, for single family homes and condos. Well, that figure bottomed out in 2022 and it's only hovered around one or 1.1 million for a few months now, we are under supplied, and it takes a long time to build our way out of it. Now, apartment buildings are a different story. They are oversupplied, but again, today, we're here focused on the future price direction of one to four unit properties. So that's supply, not as tight as it was, but still on the tight side, and then demand. Where is demand coming from? It comes from us. There's more of us. As our population keeps growing, there is a lot of housing demand coming. Not only is there pent up demand from those trying to afford a home as soon as they can, but more broadly. Demographically, I will point back to that period where there was a surge of us births from 1990 to 2010 there were over 4 million births every single one of those years, births peaked in 2007 if you add 40 years to that, because 40 years is now the average age of the first time homebuyer. That's still a mind blowing figure to me, 40 years the average age of the first time homebuyer. You add that to 2007 that peak birth rate year, and this demand won't even peak until about 2047   Speaker 2  30:36   and this doesn't even include additions from immigration, demand, demand, demand, propping up prices for decades, but for next year, improved affordability, which is expected that boosts the demand for those that have the capacity to pay. Well, considering everything we've covered, I'm about to reveal the number for next year. But first, I mean, gosh, don't you wish everyone actually followed up on their past forecasts, like I'm about to I don't think I've ever seen a price crash predictor follow up, because they're always wrong. Well, what is the track record of get rich, education, home, price appreciation forecasts. It's the fifth straight year I'm doing this, and I always release the forecast in the final days of the year in anticipation of the coming year, just like you and I are doing together now. For 2022 I said that prices would rise nine to 10% the year ended, and they came in at 10% 2023 a lot of people said home prices would fall because they had just seen a terrific run up. I said a price fall would not happen, largely due to that jaw droppingly low supply that we had then. I said zero, there wouldn't be any change. They came in at exactly zero. There was no price change in 2023 for 2024 I forecast 4% they came in at exactly 4% this is all documented. You can go back and listen to those episodes. They're all near year end. So yes, three straight years, I nailed it to the exact percent. How about this year? Just before the year began? Do you remember what my forecast figure was from listening here about a year ago, it was 5% home price appreciation. The year is not over yet, and real estate statistics move pretty slowly. Figures lag, but we pretty much know where it's going to end up. And as we look at this same stat set that I consistently use, which is the NARS national median existing single family home price, it is 2.2% as of late in the year, and it's almost certainly going to end up at 2% appreciation. So I would call that a miss, probably not a terrible call, but far enough apart to call that a miss, 5% forecast versus 2% actual for this year. That's the track record. So before I reveal the number for next year, in the last four I've nailed three of them spot on, and why was appreciation less than I expected for this year? Well, a few reasons. One of them is that inflationary pressure from tariffs was postponed. That Tariff Schedule was changed more times than anyone could have possibly forecast, and affordability stayed stubbornly low too. And here we go for 2026 how much home price appreciation or depreciation do I expect? Well, I haven't said this in any of the previous forecasts, because it's the easiest thing to say, and I often avoid saying the easiest thing, but this is just what I see coming, and that is, I expect more of the same. It's the first time I've said more of the same, which is drumroll here, 2% home price appreciation for next year. No wild figure or hyperbolic material here, in order to attract attention that is my best target for the truth, I'm here to do my best to be accurate and help you make the most informed decision, 2% for next year. So a 500k property today should cost you about 10,000 more dollars next year, and as we know, with a figure like 2% which is less appreciation than the long run historic 5% or so, with this 2% appreciation on new purchases, you leverage that five to one with your 80% loan, and you get a 10% return on your down payment. And you add in the other four ways real estate pays to your 10% leverage appreciation and at historic norms, you can end up with a 29% total ROI. That's realistic. I outlined the math of that in an earlier episode this year when I discussed how real estate pays five ways in a slow market, there you have it, 2% forecast home price appreciation for next year. If you want the charts that support the forecast and more, there's a way for you to get a hold of that, and also the best real estate maps, stories and investment opportunities that you won't see in any headlines. They are all in my free weekly newsletter. The newsletter also gives you access to my free real estate pays five ways. Video, course, that is it. GRE letter.com Get it all at one easy place. Gre letter.com I look forward to talking to you in the new year. I'm Keith Weinhold, don't quit your daydrem   Speaker 3  36:06   nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  36:34   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, GetRichEducation.com  

Keith discusses the Federal Trade Commission's (FTC) new regulations on rental pricing transparency, following a settlement with Greystar.  Legendary author, Doug Casey, joins the conversation to argue that the Federal Reserve is waging a quiet war on the middle class.  Casey explains that by creating trillions of new fiat dollars to push interest rates lower, the Fed fuels inflation, which erodes savings, distorts markets, and quietly reduces the average American's standard of living. He warns of an impending economic downturn due to inflation and government debt. Resources: Find the FTC article here. Visit internationalman.com to read Doug Casey's weekly articles and watch his "Doug Casey's Take" videos on YouTube. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/585 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the Fed keeps escalating their quiet war against the middle class. I'm talking about it with one of the most influential financial figures of the past century. Today, also what the recent FTC decision on rents means to real estate on get rich education.   Speaker 1  0:25   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold rights for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:11   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:27   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, let's get right into it, as there's a lot to cover here on our last big show before Christmas. Briefly before we get to the Fed's quiet war against the middle class the Federal Trade Commission just fired off a warning shot to landlords, and here's the translation about what this means to you, advertise your real all in rent amount with mandatory fees included in that amount or expect company and by company, the FTC means attorneys, paperwork and a long headache, and I'll tell you why I think this is a good thing. But really, first what this is all about is that it stems from the antecedent settlement with the massive global real estate company greystar, about transparent pricing. You might know that greystar is the massive global real estate company. They specialize in rental housing. In fact, greystar is the largest apartment operator in the entire US. They're in about 250 markets. The FTC cracked down on greystars add on fees, those fees added on to the rent amount that aren't clear and transparent right from the beginning. Now, in their case, it's things like Package Concierge charges, valet, trash service fees and some of these other line items that magically appear after a renter has already emotionally moved into a unit. Now for your rentals, they might be other things like Pest Control fees, gym fees, pet fees, utility add ons and notice that I use the word might, because clarification is still being sought here, but suffice to say, the least that you should know is really three things, advertise a rental price that excludes mandatory charges and that could be a violation of the law. So then state the total cost of renting the unit up front, no fine print gymnastics. Secondly, do a compliance check. You need to review your ads to confirm that they honestly convey your rental unit's price. That includes working with third party marketing vendors like Zillow or Facebook marketplace to see if they accurately state the all in price, because if they understate the price, it's still your problem. And thirdly, know that the FTC is reviewing harmful practices in the rental housing market. They'll take action against landlords that try to hide mandatory fees, so no hide and seek. And the FTC resource is in our show notes, and I sent it to you in last week's newsletter as well, if you want to read it, all my take here is that this type of transparency is a good thing. I mean, come on, we all know how annoying it is if, say, an airline states like, Hey, we've got prices to this destination. You can fly there for as low as $200 Yeah, but what if it's a 28 hour, four layover journey to fly 300 miles? Okay? What about buying an event ticket to go to a music concert and say you've already got 10 minutes wrapped up in this, but they don't show you the final price with all the fees until you've already invested that 10 minutes a. Then you learn about this in your shopping cart. So that type of thing is deceptive, all right. Well, what this FTC case does is it eliminates that effect in the rental housing market. So if you're a landlord, your competitors shouldn't be able to advertise base rents minus fees against your unit that appears higher priced than it's really not. And then for renters, I mean, the clarity helps expedite their search process. So this lets good assets compete on real value, and that is good business. Now, as far as the Fed controlling the economy, Jerome Powell announced interest rate cuts both last year and some more again this year, and though the effect isn't immediate, mortgage rates do come down with them. Mortgage rates have also fallen this year because the yield spread premium is lower. And you know what the prevailing sentiment is among a lot of armchair economists, it is squarely this, you ain't seen nothing for cuts yet. People say, Oh, watch, once Trump gets his guy in there in May, meaning that's when the newly appointed Fed chair is in power. Oh, you're really going to see some giant rate cuts then, yeah. I mean, a lot of people talk about this like it's certainly coming. They say then the Fed funds rate is going to go way down, meaning mortgage rates are then going to go way down, meaning that home prices are therefore going to soar next year. Well, all that could happen, but it is nowhere close to the certainty camp for everything to respond exactly that way. As you know, as a listener here, paradoxically, mortgage rates have little to do with home prices. Look at history over hunches. In fact, it might be more likely that those things don't happen and don't all break exactly that way, then the probability that they do, and that quickly gets into conjecture territory. As we know, lowering rates is bad too, because it signals that a weak economy needs the help. Typically. What could be different this next time. Well, whether we're in a good or a bad economy, Trump still wants lower rates, and he really imposes his will on the situation.    Keith Weinhold  7:30   We're about to bring in the author of a new book called The preparation. It's about preparing for the economic future. A lot of the book is mostly for young men and their parents, but we'll speak to both females and males. Today is the middle class both worse off and in a way, better off today than they were a generation or two ago. Talk to your grandparents. They didn't pay for a college education. They didn't get one. They rarely ate out at restaurants. They didn't have a smartphone, which is now practically mandatory to even exist. Today, people are paying for all of that, so no wonder that prospective first time homebuyers almost seem to be going extinct. Let's meet this week's guest.   Keith Weinhold  8:21   Are we going to get a painful financial reset in the form of runaway inflation, a market crash or something else? We'll answer that before we're done today, the Fed is engaged in a quiet war against the middle class. They are going to create trillions more Fiat dollars to lower interest rates further and create inflation that's according to today's guest. He is the International man himself, a legendary and generationally popular author, and he does a lot more than that. He's back with us for a sobering look at this today. Hey, welcome in. Doug Casey,   Doug Casey  8:57   Thanks, Keith. It's nice to be here with you, although care for me is in Buenos Aires, Argentina, where I spend a good part of the year.   Keith Weinhold  9:05   Such a nice place, good year round weather. There. A piece you recently wrote is titled, The Fed's quiet war against the middle class. The Fed recently announced that they're stopping Qt, which basically means they're stopping the destruction of dollars and opening the floodgates to print dollars. You've been known to say that the level of interest rates is the most important single indicator of an economy, and the Fed has made several quarter point cuts over the last year plus, although the President is supposed to stay independent of Fed influence. Oh my gosh, he has been more vocal than any other president ever over how badly he wants low rates. What are your thoughts with regard to all this Doug?   Doug Casey  9:53   Well, the Fed, which most people have been taught to believe, is part of the cosmic firmament. Right? It should be abolished. It serves no useful purpose. The Fed is an engine of inflation. It's what creates Federal Reserve notes. It's an engine of inflation and purely destructive, and it's used by the government to finance itself. So that's the first thing I've got to say. And they don't know what interest rates should be. Neither does Trump neither does anybody else. That's for the market to determine right and interest rates are set by the amount of savings that's done by the people and the amount of borrowing that's done by other people. The problem is with the Fed printing up lots and lots of money, which they are through the banking system, it makes it rather foolish to be a saver. In other words, if you produce more than you consume, which is something everybody should do, you want to save the difference. That's how you become wealthy. But if they destroy the currency with inflation, it's pointless to save, and if there's no savings, there's no capital to lend. This is why we're sliding off a slippery slope in the direction of a third world country where there's no savings, where the money's no good, it's a real problem. I think the average American, despite increases in technology that we've benefited from over many years, the average American has found his standard of living go down a lot, and it's basically because of the destruction of the currency that makes it impossible for him to save and get ahead of things, and results in wild and crazy moves in the stock markets and the real estate markets and the interest rate markets, where things become unpredictable. So everybody's being turned into a speculator, whether they like it or not, and frankly, we're headed towards a real reckoning in the US and in the world generally. So my approach at this point is to hold on to your hat, because we're in for rough running in the years   Keith Weinhold  12:14   to come. To create low rates, the Fed basically needs to create trillions of new Fiat dollars. Tell us about how that works.   Doug Casey  12:25   Well, it's a question of the supply and demand of money. You've got two things happening. Number one, when the Fed has quantitative easing, as they call it, which basically means inflating the dollar. Quantitative easing, or QE is just a nice word for inflating the dollar. They're increasing the supply of dollars out there. You increase the supply of dollars, the price of money goes down in the short run, but in the long run, the value of the dollar also goes down. And nobody's going to lend money if they can't get more in interest than it's being depreciated at. So you've got these two forces fighting against each other making for an unstable system. That's why I say that look before 1933 and when Roosevelt took gold out of the dollar, or in fact, before 1913 when the Federal Reserve was created, before that, there was no central bank. There was no Federal Reserve in the US. Money was just a medium of exchange and a store of value. It wasn't a political commodity, which it is now. Today, everybody is looking at the government to do something to make a decision to raise rates. Some people want them higher or lower them. Some people want them lower. But this is for the market to decide. It shouldn't be a political decision.   Keith Weinhold  13:53   Low rates, which most think are coming, produce an inflationary environment, which then means that longer term, there need to be new higher rates in order to combat that.   Doug Casey  14:05   Well, what we've got is a situation where conflicting advice and beliefs are causing rates, and indeed, most of the economy, to go up and down like an elevator with a lunatic at the controls. And actually, that's a very good analogy.   Keith Weinhold  14:22   And low rates to your earlier point, Doug, they don't encourage anyone to save. And you know what? Government policy doesn't encourage anyone to save either in times of crisis, like, look what happened during covid. Oh my gosh, if these people can't go to work and generate an income, they don't have any savings, obviously. So then let's go ahead and intervene even more and send them stimulus checks, basically a bailout. So low rates discourage anyone from saving, but so does our policy, because every time there's a big catastrophe, oh, they just come in with a safety net anyway. That's Part. The reason why we have such a problem with capital formation of the average American today?   Doug Casey  15:04   Well, it's actually worse than that, because over generations, a lot of debt has built up in the country. In other words, to maintain your standard of living, a lot of people have borrowed. They've done this either by taking the savings of past generations and borrowing it or mortgaging their personal futures. Either way, look, if you and I went out and borrowed a million dollars today, we could raise our standard of living artificially, sure, for the next year, but at the end of that year, we have to pay back the million dollars to lost interest, and that artificial rise in our standard of living will result in a very real decline in our standard of living. And a great deal of the borrowing that's been done to stimulate the economy through the banking system is for consumption, not for production. In other words, a lot of the borrowing is not to create new technologies and new infrastructure and new capital goods to create more wealth. A lot of it's just stuff that you wind up. People are borrowing things to fill their basements and their garages with more junk, consumer borrowing, borrowing for vacations, borrowing for to go to music, shows, all kinds of things. This has become a habit in the US, right? So let's look. It's going to end very badly. It's going to end and is ending as we speak, actually, in what I call the greater depression. It's going to be what we're looking at here, largely because of monetary manipulation, but also because taxes have gone up, up, up, up from zero level. Basically, in 1913 there were no income taxes in the US, the US government lived exclusively on minimal tariffs and excise duties. But today, there's right and they're very high, high levels of inflation, high levels of borrowing. So I think we're coming to the end of the road, as far as that's concerned. And it's bad news. Of course, most of the real wealth in the world, when you have a financial collapse, when you have a depression, most of the real wealth still exists. It just changes ownership, that's all so you want to position yourself so that you're not too adversely affected by what's coming   Keith Weinhold  17:31   this inflation and more coming inflation pumping up the asset values of the asset owners and then ruining the lifestyles of those in the lower middle class and making them trend down lower since they spend a greater proportion of their income on everyday needs like clothing and food, which is a small proportion of people that are well off and the poor don't have the assets to benefit from that inflation. And you know, Doug, it wasn't until I read your recent article that I realized something that initially the fed only had one mandate, price stability, and then later they added that maximum employment was their second mandate. I didn't realize that. So really, it's been an expansion of what they're paying attention to, and a de facto expansion of their powers and influence and control.   Doug Casey  18:23   Well, actually, they have a third mandate now, which is to control long term interest rates, to prop up the mortgage market, to prop up the real estate market. Because, as you know, the real estate market floats on a sea of debt, and if you can't get a mortgage, if you can't borrow, you can't buy real estate, or, for that matter, you can't sell it. So this makes it a very unstable situation, and most people are unaware of the fact that before the last depression, the longest mortgage you could get was five years, and that was with a 20% down payment. So things have changed a lot since then, and the more debt you use to finance anything, the more unstable things become. And the fact that things have become so unstable, and the average guy's standard of living has been sinking, and he has more credit card debt, more mortgage debt, more automobile debt. Used to be paid cash for a car, then was financed for two years and five and seven, and then it was leased where you never even owned it. I mean, this is, this is a trend that's coming to an end at this point, so it's going to be quite a comeuppance for people.   Keith Weinhold  19:42   I think long term financing and the easing of getting financing makes the cost of anything higher. There's probably no greater example than that of what has happened with college tuition over the decades. But you know Doug, when we talk about this centrally planned economy. Rather than letting free market forces take over, I love it. I just absolutely love it when the answer to a problem is actually doing less than what you're currently doing, let go of the reins, rather than the Fed controlling interest rates. If there were a free market doing it, you would have bank loan rates that couldn't become too high, or else they wouldn't attract borrowers. So rates would naturally fall, and then you also couldn't have bank loan rates that are too low, because you've got to compensate the bank for bad borrower risk. So rates would come up, and they would find some natural level, kind of to the point that you made earlier. There would be a natural set point price discovery. That's how I think of a free market working for interest rates rather than announcements by a Fed chair.   Doug Casey  20:51   Well, you're right. The problem is that the high government officials, the elite, if you would, think they know best and try to manipulate things, but they don't know best, quite frankly. And one other comment that you made, which I think is very appropriate, is college tuitions. For years, I've recommended that young people forget about college. It's a huge misallocation of your time and money, you wind up studying things well after you are through partying and drinking and chasing the opposite sex, and the things you learn about have no practical application in the world. And I'm not talking about learning history and the classics and mathematics and science, okay? Those are valuable things. Most of what people are taking in college today are hobby subjects, if you would, or things that are fun to learn in your spare time, but you shouldn't burden yourself with a lifetime of debt to do those things and get a worthless degree. Everybody has a degree and with grade inflation, they're a waste of time. That's listen. That's why I wrote this book with Matt Smith. Is my podcast. It's called the preparation. It's on Amazon, and it explains talking about your standard of living, which is what this is all about, really, why it's foolish to go to college today and exactly what especially a young man should do, instead of misallocating The four most valuable vibrant years of his life, sitting behind a desk listening to Marxist leaning professors corrupt you with all kinds of really bad ideas. So that's why we wrote the preparation. And it tells young men exactly what they should do, instead of burdening themselves under hundreds of 1000s of dollars of debt, which can't be discharged and serves no useful purpose, what they've learned in exchange for it. So, I mean, this is one of the one of the things that people should be doing, but not enough are.   Keith Weinhold  23:07   AI changes things fast. I mean, for a four year college graduate today, what you learned as a freshman three or four years ago could quickly be outdated, and that effect just wasn't nearly as great as it was a few decades ago, but if you're listening in the audio only, Doug just held his book called The preparation, which he co authored with Matthew Smith. If this way of thinking resonates with you, here's some actionable things that you can actually do. You're listening to get rich education. Our guest is international man. Doug Casey, when we come back, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold   Keith Weinhold  23:41   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's one, 937, 795, 8989. Yep, text their freedom coach directly again. 1-937-795-8989   Keith Weinhold  24:52   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 420, Five, six, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com.    Robert Helms  25:23   Hi everybody. t's Robert Allens of the real estate guys radio program. So glad you found Keith Weinhold and get rich education. Don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  25:34   Steve, welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, we're talking with Doug Casey about how the Fed is quietly intervening and hollowing out the middle class when it comes to interest rates. Since you state about them being the most important indicator for an economy, I think a lot of people don't realize Doug, and maybe you run into this too, that interest rates are not high today. I mean, on the long run, the Fed funds rate averages 4.6% and today it's in the high threes. So they're not actually high today. But with all these crises where we had all this money printing in these low rates, they feel high, but they're not.   Doug Casey  26:22   Well, you're quite correct. The question is, at what rate is the dollar losing value? The official US government figures say, Well, I don't know what they say. They vary, and the numbers are jumbled. And I think the general price level in the US, if we were realistic, is going up well over 5% probably closer to 10% you can make that case. Yeah, I think so, because I'm talking to you now from Argentina and for years, the figures were notoriously and outrageously concocted, made up to make people think things weren't as bad as they are. And here in Argentina, we've just had a revolution, actually a peaceful revolution, with replacing the Peronist government with a man named Javier Malay. It's probably the most unusual and most important election, believe it or not, in world history, because Malay was elected here in Argentina on the platform of basically getting rid of the government disbanding it. In other words, Elon Musk's Doge, but on steroids times 10, and things have gotten a lot better here because of that. And it's too bad that Doge has been eliminated in the US, because a lot of people don't understand that the government doesn't really produce anything at all. All it does is take taxes from you and pass that money around to other people with a lot skimmed off the top to do things that entrepreneurs would probably, or certainly, I'd say, do by themselves, and they make it worse by printing up money to give to people to do those things, and borrowing money, which acts as an albatross around everybody's neck. So I'd make the case that I'm not promoting either the Republicans or the Democrats, I'd kind of say a pox on both their houses. They're just two sides of the same coin. What I think we ought to have is a much smaller, much much smaller government. But are we going to get one? No, we're not getting it right now, because I think a lot of people aren't aware of the fact that the government is running 2 trillion, $3 trillion per year deficits, and those deficits are going up, not down. So where's that money coming from? Well, most of it's being created out of thin air. It's being inflated through the banking system. So the prognosis is not terribly good. Now, along the way, of course, people have hid in real estate, made a lot of money in real estate. Real estate prices have gone up faster than retail inflation has gone up. Yeah, but I'm asking myself whether it's not possible that the real estate market could come unglued at this point, because it floats on a sea of debt. What do you think, Keith, do you have any fears about that?   Keith Weinhold  29:27   Homeowners are in great shape today. They have record equity positions. They're not going to walk away. Many of them are still locked into these really low mortgage rates, so they're in really good shape. This is something very different from the 2008 global financial crisis, when you had irresponsible borrowers that had negative equity positions and an oversupply of housing so they could move out and get something cheaper. Today, if you move out in the great situation that you're in with your low mortgage rate and a high equity position, you'd lose your high equity position and. Might have to go pay rent that's higher somewhere else, so I don't see a lot of real estate appreciation coming over the next year or two, but I don't see any impending crash, largely due to that condition, there's not distress in the market.   Doug Casey  30:17   Are you worried about the fact that most local and state governments are on the ragged edge of insolvency and might be raising their real estate taxes and of course, insurance costs seem to be going up a lot faster than most other costs as well. Right now, utility costs are relatively low because oil and gas prices are low, but that could change too. I mean, is there anything that could take the real estate train off the rails?   Keith Weinhold  30:47   Not that I see. In fact, real estate values have only fallen substantially one time since World War Two, and that was during the 2008 global financial crisis, when we had conditions that are largely the opposite today. That's back when we had an oversupply and an irresponsible borrower that had negative equity so they wanted to walk away, and that created the down drain. To your point, yes, I do see property taxes continuing to increase, but because values aren't increasing as much, they would have to increase the mill rate to get further increases, and then most of the big insurance increases, many feel they are done. They had to come up. Because with inflation, the replacement cost of a property, if you would have a loss, rose and increased that way. So because we're still supply challenge in a lot of places, I see prices holding up but not appreciating like 10% anytime soon, and that's due to an affordability constraint. I don't see how they could possibly do that. And when we talk about that average person Doug, that person trying to make their mortgage payments or their rent payments, I was talking on a recent episode about the K shaped economy, I think it's something that we often visualize in our mind. You see the upper branch of the K rising, the lower branch of the k falling, which is emblematic of this hollowing out of the middle class. But I recently saw it graphically represented, where you have the capital share of income going up for people over the decades. That used to be 5050, between capital share of income and labor share of income. Back 60 years ago, it was 5050, but now, with this K shaped divergence, one's capital share of income is about 57% today, and their labor share of income is only about 43% today. And it's kind of sad. I sort of hate to say it out loud, but it's like, hard work just does not pay off, like it used to. Much of this due to inflation pumping up asset values.   Doug Casey  32:52   Well, I understand what you're saying, and I think you're correct, because there's an old saw. They say the rich get richer while the poor get poorer, and that's kind of what this K shaped economy is telling us. You've got the super rich in the top 1% or 1/10 of 1% that are becoming Ultra double wealthy, and the guy at the bottom, well, his social security taxes have risen from almost nothing to 15% of his wages, and it's a real problem. And it's said that the members of Gen Z can't afford to buy a house today as well. So what do you do about this? Well, my suggestion is, if possible, you don't want to get a job working for somebody else. If at all possible, you've got to work for yourself as an entrepreneur. That's the first thing. It's very hard to get wealthy working for somebody else. The best is to work for yourself, but in order to do that, you have to train yourself with lots of skills and lots of knowledge. And I'm not sure if people are doing that to the degree they ought to either. So I don't know how this is going to end. And of course, you mentioned earlier, artificial intelligence and robotics are tied up hand in glove with artificial intelligence. It's clear that within five years, we'll have robots that may not look entirely like people, but can do almost anything that a human being can do, and this is going to put a lot of pressure on people that don't have special skills, especially with artificial intelligence being programmed into these super competent robots. So the whole world is changing right before our very eyes. Right now,   Keith Weinhold  34:39   when we talk about the middle class struggle. I probably follow the housing market more closely than you do. The NAR recently gave us the latest statistic. Two years ago, the average age of the first time homebuyer was aged 35 last year, it rose to 38 this year, it's now 40 just the average. Age of the first time homebuyer. So in high cost areas, that could very well be 45 I mean, people are getting gray hair before they make a down payment for this middle class that's trying to get into the ownership class.   Doug Casey  35:13   And the further back you go, the younger the age right people were buying houses at So, I mean, it used to be people would try to buy a house right out of school. Frankly, that's out of the question today.   Keith Weinhold  35:27   Yeah, I sure don't remember those days myself, but Yeah, it sure was substantially younger just a couple decades ago. Well, Doug, where are we going with all this? I mean, does a reset eventually happen with either runaway inflation? Do you think that happens first, or some sort of market crash, or is it something else? I mean, what cataclysmic act is likely to happen first?   Doug Casey  35:52   Well, look, I hate to be too gloom and doomy, because everybody, first of all, generally speaking, trends in motion stay in motion, and everything has been maybe gradually descending standard of living wise, but the economy's held together, and we haven't had any catastrophic collapse. Well, almost in 2008 and a couple other times, but I think we're headed for one. So what should you do about it? I would say, consume less if you possibly can, and save what you can, if possible, take a second job while it's still possible, to go out and get a second job or found an entrepreneurial activity so that if you lose your job, you've got a backup system. But with the changes in technology and of course, what's happening in robotics and AI are just part of it. You're not going to be able to rely on what you relied on in the past, because the world is changing very, very radically as far as real estate is concerned. Look, I actually own a lot of real estate, but, you know, I've come to the conclusion that at this point I want to treat my house and other real estate, basically as a not so much as an investment to make money, but to store value. That's right, a store of value where I can put some capital aside. I don't want to keep a lot of money in dollars. That doesn't mean I want debt either. That's risky. For many, many years, I've advocated and bought gold and silver because they are money in its most basic form, and it's worked out really well. I started buying gold at about $40 it's at about 4000 today, and I've always treated it, almost always, as a savings vehicle, not as a speculative vehicle, although, if I want to speculate, I speculate in mining stocks, which are a leveraged way of playing gold and silver, the most volatile class of securities on the planet, actually, and I understand that a lot of people today have Robin Hood accounts and are speculating on the stock market, desperately trying to stay ahead of currency debasement and somehow build a nest egg for themselves by speculating in the market. Generally, that's not a good formula for success you're playing against, you know, extremely smart and well capitalized and knowledgeable big boys, and the fact that everybody's doing it is also, in itself, a tip off to the fact the stock market could be at the tippy top right now, I kind of think it is a bubble in the tech stocks. It's tough, Keith, there's not a lot of places to run and hide at this point.   Keith Weinhold  38:39   Price to earnings ratios are really bloated in the s, p5, 100. I'd love to get your thought on this. Doug, if a person can get a 30 year mortgage rate for a rental property where the rent income meets or exceeds the expenses at a mortgage rate between six and 7% should they do that?   Doug Casey  38:57   Look, if you can cover your mortgage a fixed interest rate mortgage 30 years. One thing that you can almost plan your life around is that dollar is going to lose value every year. So the actual value of your debt, your mortgage, is going to go down every year, right? And presumably the rent that you can charge on your house is going to go up every year. So yep, doing it the way I think you're doing it is an excellent plan for slow and steady long term success. Yeah, it makes sense. You're right.   Keith Weinhold  39:30   We actually have some listener questions on the thing that you brought up, which I call inflation profiting when you borrow long term fixed interest rate debt and get to pay it back with more plentiful dollars down the road. Some people don't understand what you just explained. One way I brought it up with my listeners is we'll just look back 30 years ago, in 1995 the average home cost 130k an 80% loan would be 104k so here, 30 years later, that median home costs over 400 K, and you still just owe 104k on the loan. That's the benefit of what I call inflation, profiting on long term fixed interest rate debt. And of course, your tenant would have paid that down to zero as well. But that kind of makes the benefit be more apparent when we look back into the past 30 years. Well, Doug, as we're winding down here, you have any other thoughts about, just say, the average American out there, what they should do with the Fed behaving and controlling the economy like we do. We're talking about the average American, maybe someone with a mortgage, some rental properties, some savings, maybe a 401, K. How do these potential shifts in Fed policy translate into real life consequences and actions for them. Is there anything else?   Doug Casey  40:44   Well, look, don't count on some outside force to kiss everything and make it better. You've got to look out for number one. And as I said before, the way you do that is you should cut back your expenditures every way you can at this point and when you cut back your expenditures, save that money. Now, what do you do with the money that you save? It's not as easy making that recommendation as it was a few years ago, when I was recommending gold, when it was much cheaper than it is. Now it's at $4,000 now look, save money, get an extra job, earn money, cut back your consumption, learn some new skills, because we don't know how things are going to reorient with the immense advances being made through AI and robotics. That's just generalized advice, but that's all you can do, is well and buy real assets. Nothing wrong with buying a house the way you're talking about if you can buy it and the mortgage is cracked with rent. Eventually, I think we're going to see interest rates go back up to the levels that they were in the early 1980s people don't remember this, but the US government was paying 1518, even 20% for its money, and mortgages were, well, 15, 16% it's going to happen again. So I think if you can lock in a mortgage anywhere in here, on a good piece of real estate that covers the mortgage, that's simple, it's doable. Everybody should try to do it. In addition to the other things I mentioned    Keith Weinhold  42:20   in 1981 the 30 year fixed rate mortgage peaked at over 18% to our earlier point about the fact that mortgage rates are actually historically low now so are fed funds rates. Well, Doug, tell us one last time about your new book and then any other resources. If our audience wants to engage with you   Doug Casey  42:40   I do a blog will know who he is. We've had him here on the show twice, yeah, well, he writes there for us every week, and we've got great articles. That's number one. Number two, I do a podcast with Matt Smith every week called Doug Casey's take on youtube.com third, I urge everybody to get this book, which talks about, if you have a grandchild, a son, it talks about why you should not go to college and what you should do exactly instead of going to college. So that's another thing to do. And we have a newsletter that also covers mining stocks, which is where I'm concentrated in at the moment. They're very cheap, very volatile, and one of the few places in the market, and I hate to say this, that offer the potential of 10 to one or more returns in the near future. So I guess those are the areas where you can find out more about me.   Keith Weinhold  43:49   Again, the new book from Doug is called the preparation. It shows a compass on the cover, and then internationalmen.com. Is actually where Doug wrote a piece called The Fed's quiet war against the middle class, which spawned this very conversation right here. Doug, it's been valuable as always. Thanks so much for coming back onto the show.   Doug Casey  44:08   My pleasure. Keith, thank you.   Keith Weinhold  44:16   Yeah, real estate is positioned for price stability. I was actually investing directly in real estate through the 2008 global financial crisis, and I know what happened is that people walked away from properties when the economy got rough and they couldn't make their payments. It is almost impossible for that to happen today. Homeowners can make their payments. Look through Census Bureau data in realtor.com we know a couple things here. Four in 10 homeowners have no mortgage at all. They own the property free and clear. And then among that group with mortgages, 70% of those borrowers still have a mortgage rate locked in at. Under 5% yes, still today I'll amalgamate those for you. This means that 82% of borrowers either have no mortgage or they have a rate under 5% so that is really affordable payments, along with the protective equity and inflation can't touch that principal and interest amount in addition to real estate, Doug Casey is a longtime gold and silver guy. Of course, both of those have sort to fantastic new all time highs this year.    Keith Weinhold  45:34   Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays from me and everyone here at GRE. Next week is another big one. You'll get GRE home price appreciation forecast for next year to the exact percent. I'm Keith Weinhold. Don't quit you daydream.   Speaker 3  45:53   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  46:21   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get richeducation.com