Podcasts about Rich Dad

How Veterans Build Wealth Through Real Estate | David Pere breaks down how David Pere went from Marine Corps recruiter working brutal hours to becoming financially free through real estate—and why he built one of the largest military investing communities online. He explains the "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" spark that led to house hacking, how veterans can use VA loan benefits to fast-track their first deal, and why purpose, identity, and community matter just as much as cash flow when transitioning to civilian life. David also shares what's changing in his investing strategy (including development and bank-funded foreclosure auctions), how he defines success, and the simple "get in the room" mindset that helps vets—and anyone—scale faster. _______________________________ If you want to learn how to run your business in 5 hours or less.... Go to https://www.5HourBusiness.com Subscribe to my YouTube channel:    / @tonyjavierbiz   And if you're into flying and want to follow my Aviation journey, check out my other YouTube channel at    / @tonyjaviertv   _______________________________ Follow me on Social Media: Tiktok -   / tonyjavier.tv   Instagram -   / tonyjavier.tv   Facebook Personal -   / tonyejavier   Facebook Business -   / realtonyjavier   ________________________________________ If you want to dominate your Real Estate Market with TV commercials, go here: https://www.ClaimMyMarket.com If you want to connect with me and my network, go to https://tonyjavier.com/connect If you want to check out Tony's Real Estate Resources and Vendors go to https://www.TonyJavier.com/resources ________________________________________ Tony is the owner of an INC 5000-rated Real Estate Investment Company. He has been featured in Bigger Pockets, Wholesaling INC, Steve Trang's Real Estate Disruptors, Joe Fairless' Best Ever Podcast, and many other top podcasts and platforms. When Tony is not working on his business, he enjoys flying his plane. You can see videos on that and how he uses airplanes to save money on taxes. Don't forget to like the video, comment, subscribe to my channel, and share this with a friend if I'm doing my job and providing value to you and your network. If I'm not doing my job please let me know in the comments how I can be better, your feedback is greatly appreciated. See you in the next video!

Keith breaks down where the U.S. housing market appears to be headed and which regions and states are quietly winning or losing in the population shuffle since 2020—and what that could mean for real estate investors.  You'll also hear about an intriguing cash-flow play in single-family rentals in select Southern markets. Then, Keith is joined by financial strategist and comedian Garrett Gunderson, who challenges the usual "scrimp and save" advice. Together, they explore how to build real wealth without sacrificing your life today, how high-net-worth individuals often get money wrong, and a different way to think about financial independence, freedom, and investing in yourself. Resources: Get Garrett Gunderson's Killing Sacred Cows audiobook free: DM @GarrettBGunderson on Instagram with the words "Keith Cows." Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/595 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, is the future direction of the housing market trending up or trending down? Which states have seen the most population growth? Then powerful wealth mindset tactics with a financial comedian today on get rich education   Speaker 1  0:20   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads and 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and keep top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:04   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Speaker 2  1:38   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:54   Welcome to GRE from Mount Rainier to Mount Rushmore and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. I am not a Lambo driving influencer that will take any brand deal just to shill a gambling platform instead. Our core strategy at GRE is aging. Well, I've spoken with a lot of LP investors with capital calls and deals that lost all their money. Well, we approach wealth building with discipline and consistency. It doesn't sound dazzling, but it really shines when things go wrong elsewhere, because at least for the core of our portfolios, we get long term fixed rate debt for income property get paid five ways and win the inflation triple crown, and we do it all with a high degree of passivity. Right before I took the mic today, I got a two sentence email from a property manager that said an air conditioning unit's air handler board had to be replaced for $420 I don't even know what an air handler board really is. Now, the manager sent some photos in a written estimate. I quickly checked chat GPT, and I saw that the price was about right, and replied to my manager to go ahead and have that done. That's it an example of relative passivity. US residential real estate has nominally appreciated over every single 10 year period in modern history, despite some occasional short term downturns, even those are not common. Well, we recently had a guest mention that it's 20 years at the longest like 20 years or less is the period of time between which real estate never goes down. He was right. But you actually can't find any 10 year period where home values fell. What about the 2008 global financial crisis, I think that's the first place that the mind goes. Well back then, home values bottomed out at 208k in 2009 before they started growing again. And 10 years before that, the median price it was 157k in 1999 so even when home values hit their GFC low at that point, they were still up 32% from the previous 10 years. So you can confidently say then that over any 10 year period, home prices are up nationally. Now, how about the future? Well, for the future, there is more evidence of rising home prices. Building permits for new homes have fallen to their lowest level since 2019 that's according to the census bureau. So fewer single family homes are being built. Now we plan to discuss that more on. Next week show when we dive deep on does America really have a housing shortage? But this week, more reasons for future home price bullishness is that the labor market now, it's not doing that great. It sure isn't white hot, but unemployment, which was already low, that recently dropped a touch lower to just 4.3% inflation has fallen to 2.4% and wages are rising faster than that. In fact, our own Fed Chair recently remarked at how he's surprised at the strength of the economy. The property market analytics firm kotality, they now expect home prices to appreciate another four and a half percent this year. They and other firms continue to believe that the Midwest will be the hottest area of home price growth even more than that four and a half percent in that region. That is because not only is the Midwest underbuilt, it's that the prices are so affordable that it's attracting young people. The other factor is that mortgage rates recently dipped just below six into the high fives again, and that can release this pent up housing demand, and think about where we've come from. In late 2023 mortgage rates were about 8% and now lower mortgage rates also reduce the lock in effect, so it can create both more sellers and more buyers. The thing to remember is that 70% to 80% of home sellers are also home buyers because they've got to live somewhere. And first time homebuyers, of course, they buy only, they don't sell anything. In fact, former GRE guest in housing wire lead analyst Logan modeshami and Barry Habib were just positing on this at housing wire's latest summit on how the volume of home sales has been depressed for so long that lower rates could very well trigger a rush of buyers, these kind of people that have been delaying purchasing for years, this pent up housing demand being released if indeed rates go lower. People think they know the future, but we don't really know that that's going to happen for sure. But a lot of optimism about this phase of the housing market supported by not great, but decent economic conditions. Of course, that new housing demand is going to manifest unevenly across the nation. So let's talk about the places that have seen the most population growth from 2020 to today, basically the states that support that housing demand. Well, between 2020 and today, the US has grown by about 10 million people. That's over 3% nearly every state grew. But the bigger story is where that growth is happening. And really, here's the jaw dropper as a region, the South, gained more people than all of the other regions combined, about 7.6 million new residents in the south since 2020 the South's population is up 6% the West's almost 2% the Midwest population is up more than 1% and The Northeast up seven tenths of 1% again, this is not per year. This is total population growth from 2020 to today, Florida and Texas, they led the nation among the big states, both up almost 9% sprinting like they just found out that income tax is optional. The Carolinas in Tennessee are big southern growers too. People clearly keep moving toward warmer weather, a lower cost of living, lower taxes and job markets. Nothing new there. California in New York are the biggest losers in absolute numbers, California losing half of 1% of population in New York, a full 1% people keep moving away from these traditionally expensive, high tax coastal states like a buffet when the crab legs run out, people just getting up and leaving. That's not any sort of news story there, either. These trends help cash flow residential real estate investors like us, because the south aligns with that favorable landlord tenant law and those high ratios of rent income to purchase price. Luckily for us, that's where people are moving too. The Midwest has those phenomena as well, although their growth has been slower.    Keith Weinhold  9:39   Now a few Midwest highlights for you. Since 2020 the population of Indiana is up 2.8% quietly benefiting from Illinois. Escape Velocity, Missouri up almost 2% and that's growing mostly in Kansas City and St Louis suburbs. Ohio at almost 1% that's pretty modest growth overall, but Columbus up 5% that is flexing like it just landed a semiconductor plant there in Columbus, the intermountain west has bicep bulging growth, but it rarely works for us, because rents are only a little higher, but property prices are way higher. Yes, those pretty Rocky Mountain states, great Instagram, tough cash flow now Louisiana, it is a state that confounds people. It's a warm place, and it has a low cost of living, you would think Louisiana would be attracting people in droves for those reasons. Well, then why is its population following Louisiana down nine tenths of 1% since 2020 Well, you've got bleak job prospects that make Louisianans leave its tax competitiveness ranks 31st property insurance costs are high thanks to environmental risk. Louisiana has more swamps than beaches. Even the NFL saints were six and 11, and if they had made the playoffs, that wouldn't have made people move back. And hey, no personal shade here, I enjoy going to the New Orleans investment conference in Cajun culture, in Airboat Tours through the alligator filled Bayou, fun stuff, but for income producing property, you got to seek out different characteristics than just vacation Glee or how Good the gumbo tastes keep emotion separate from investing, Hawaii is America's biggest percentage loser. Its population is down one and a half percent since 2020 its cost of living is stratospherically high, with a median home value of just a little over a million dollars. That results in net outmigration to the mainland parts of the Aloha state now experience natural decrease. That means that deaths exceed births. Natural decrease. That's mostly a phenomenon on the Big Island. That's not where Honolulu is. That's where you have Kona and Hilo when young people can't afford to stay demographic gravity kicks in population loss. Hawaii is also highly dependent on tourism, meaning more volatility in recessions. It has contractor availability issues and higher repair costs, partly due to shipping materials to the remote islands. What about the upsides of Hawaiian real estate? Well, you're just going to have this inherent, strong, long term land scarcity and lifestyle desirability overall. Hawaii isn't bad. It's just hard. And I like Hawaii as a place to vacation, so the best times in my life were in Hawaii. Now, with all this said, These are broad generalities about states which are big places themselves right now. There are certainly Missouri real estate investors listening to me that are actually losing, and Hawaii real estate investors that are winning, and even cash flow positive. I'm talking general trends here, and this is with respect to long term rentals, not short term rentals. If your rent to price ratio is as low as point three or point four, like it often is near the coasts, well then you are speculating on appreciation. That's what that means. All 50 states have opportunity. All 50 states have no go zones. People keep moving south. That's a trend that the pandemic accelerated six years ago. More opportunity is concentrated there. That's got nothing to do with vacation excitement. That is population math, and I'm talking about swimming with the tide here in our Don't quit your Daydream newsletter I recently sent you that colorful population change map that I was describing some of there. More recently, I also emailed you that great and rare map of landlord friendly versus tenant friendly states mapped out and a lot of other great stuff.    Keith Weinhold  14:17   Before we bring in our firebrand guest, Garrett Gunderson, I just learned about a really strong opportunity for a provider of single family rentals and duplexes in Memphis and Little Rock. They're providing a locked in 5% interest rate and 5% property management for five years. Yeah, that's not a throwback to 2020 it's what mid south homebuyers calls their triple five program. They are the oldest and most trusted, maybe turnkey investment provider in the country, operating since 2002 and what they do is they offer these fully renovated, occupied rental properties in Memphis and Little Rock, two of the strongest cash flow markets in the South. With financing and management and rates that make the math work like it hasn't in years. So again, 5% interest, 5% property management fees for a full five years. You know those markets, they already had these investor advantage numbers with rent to price ratios mere point eight in Memphis and Little Rock. But yeah, that low 5% mortgage rate, even for renovated properties, not just new build. That's the kind of spread that turns a good deal into a great one. So to give you an idea, if you get a 30 year fixed rate mortgage loan amount of 125k with a 7% mortgage rate, your principal and interest payment is 832, at a 5% rate, it's just 671, so that's $160 more cash flow right there, and it's made a tad sweetener than that with just a 5% Property Management rate. And I don't know how long that offer is going to last, but it is available now and for the next little while, you can ask about it. When you visit mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com and you can ask them about their triple five program. More next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 595, of get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  16:19   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio, through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre. You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989 Yep. Text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Dani-Lynn Robison  18:08   this is freedom family investments. Co founder, Danny Lynn Robinson, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. You Brenda.   Keith Weinhold  18:24   Today's guest is someone that America knows as the long haired, bearded money guy in the past, he's drawn physical appearance comparisons to Jesus Christ. He's a prominent financial strategist. Founded an eight figure company, hit the Inc 500 he's both a New York Times and Wall Street Journal bestselling author. He is just an electric speaker, including appearances in front of dozens of billionaires. And he's just got this great way of speaking to financial freedom that hits you differently. He even has a comedy special that's great to welcome back to the show. Garrett Gunderson,   Garrett Gunderson  19:02   that's good to be back. Man. Is really good. Love your energy. Has a nice intro.   Keith Weinhold  19:07   Well, you give a lot of like, nice guidance to people that's somewhat different than they're used to hearing. You know, Garrett, I think a lot of the conventional guidance is, you know, it's not very far above Elementary School advice like, put your credit card in the freezer so you don't use it too often, but a lot of times you speak to either business owners or people that have already had some success, and I think a lot of your underlying mantra is, hey, you better live your best life now   Garrett Gunderson  19:35   I kind of feel like you are your greatest asset, and if you starve out that asset because you don't feed it with knowledge, or you don't invest in yourself, or you don't gain the skills that really matter because you're so addicted to scrimping and sacrificing and building your balance sheet right, trying to build savings accounts and retirement plans and doing all you can to pay off that mortgage. Yeah, you could become a millionaire on paper. But will you live like one? Will you enjoy your. Life. What about all the memories that you miss along the way? What about having quality of life today and creating a life you don't want to retire from? The wealthy people, they didn't get that way because they shrunk their way there. They didn't get that way because they were amazing budgeters. They built businesses. They created value. They learned how to, you know, sell or speak or market or have business acumen that grow business or to hire people, and having those systems that actually impact more people or more deeply impact the people that they serve, because it's about value creation and their value creators. And I think this notion of just thinking, Oh, I could just trade time for money and set money aside. Man, that's a really painful way to get to a million dollars, but Northwestern Mutual, they just put out an article that said, 32 or 34% of millionaires don't feel wealthy, because if you have money tied up in an account that isn't kicking off cash flow, it doesn't feel like wealth. You can't spend that net worth. It's just a statement if you don't learn how to create cash flow. And I love financial independence, where people have cash flow from assets to cover their expenses now their lifestyle is covered from that cash flow. Now they can reinvest every active dollar into themselves and their quality of life, into more cash flowing assets, into taking trips along the way, not just waiting until they're too old to enjoy it.   Keith Weinhold  21:13   You work with business owners all the time, and you've even worked with some ultra high net worth people that still seemed to scrimp and save. Do you think really, what is that the function of? Is it more of the wrong mindset or the wrong tactics when someone acts that way?   Garrett Gunderson  21:32   It's a mindset that's really kind of handed down to them? Yeah, maybe from their parents or grandparents or from a different era, like there's people that were, you know, in the Great Depression, that then tells stories to their family about how tough it was, and you never know when that money could go away. So you got to hold tight, and it's a scarcity mindset. So one of the wealthiest clients I ever had, I mean, this was a guy who he was worth a lot of money, but you would never know it. I saw him on TV one day. I was like, Dude, he needs new clothes, and we found a strategy to save him a bunch of money. He was just buying his inventory with cash or like, let's buy it on a plum card, and you'll get cash back. I just said, Just take 10% of that cash back, which was over $100,000 a month, and spend it on yourself. He's like, Well, I wouldn't know to spend it on I'm like, Well, how about some new clothes to start with? He's like, Okay. And then the next month, he bought a nest system for his house. The next month he bought a sound system. Eventually, saved up enough money to buy a Tesla, which he really wanted, like it was money that was there for him, but it changed his entire paradigm, because now he had a quality of life. He was very philanthropic and donated money. He built massive businesses, but he never treated himself well. He'd never felt like it was okay to spend that money because of his upbringing, because the way that his parents viewed money and the way that their parents viewed money, and it was always something that felt scarce. So it felt like, okay, will this go away? And the reality was, we just found money in your couch cushions, essentially. So why not enjoy it along the way? He eventually bought a home that he loved on the water, that he loves the garden. I mean, it was like a total transformation with that one simple thing to help him heal his relationship with money, overcome scarcity, because he was already highly productive. He just had to break free from this budgetary mindset.   Keith Weinhold  23:09   That's great. It was almost like, Dude, I can see it in you. Before we even talk. You got that code off the rack at Burlington. I swear you can do better than this. Come on, now   Garrett Gunderson  23:17    30 years ago, 30 years ago too. You know, it doesn't even fit anymore.   Keith Weinhold  23:23   Well, you know, I recently dedicated a complete episode Garrett to the way I put it is that the risk of delayed gratification is denied gratification. Now, there are some good things to be said for delayed gratification, I think, especially when you're younger, or you're just starting out in the working world, and you just tried to cover rent for your apartment and you don't have much else. Delaying some gratification is good. You need to form capital. You need to get liquid. I try to avoid saying stacking savings, because that gets people in the mindset of becoming super savers sometimes, and they miss out on returns. But what I mean about the risk of delayed gratification, being denied gratification, if it's taken too great of an extent, is, you know, I'm talking about the guy where, when he was 24 he used to say, Oh, I'm going to visit the Galapagos Islands someday. That's what I want to do. But you can just tell by the time you talk to the dude, when he's 48 he begins to use the past tense for things he wanted to do, for example, then he might start saying, Oh, well, I guess I never did visit the Galapagos Islands. You know, you can tell with people when they use the past tense, and that's when you know that their future is not bigger than their past, and a lot of that is the reflection of their financial status.   Garrett Gunderson  24:40   I got married at age 23 and the first two years, well, it was really like the first year and a half, maybe I was just such a miser. I gave my wife a $400 a month budget for an apartment, and we found out that there's places you don't want to live in Utah. I didn't know it, but she's like, is this what you want? And I was like, This doesn't feel like a safe neighborhood. And then you. Know, I was like, All right, maybe $600 I was still kind of really scarce. And my parents were like, Why don't you just live in our basement, rent free, and my wife's like, sex free. If you think that's where we're living, I'm gonna live in my parents basement, you know? Because I just thought money was something to save. So I saved me over 50% of my income. And a lot of people were like, that's amazing. Congratulations. Great job. And so I felt really good about it, and then I realized that my business wasn't growing as fast as this other person my age. I met him at an event, and a year later, he was doing better. And I was like, Dude, what's going on? I could hear it in your voice. I could hear like, you're just a different person. He goes, Oh, I'm doing two things. One, I just hired this guy, Steve D'Annunzio, and he changed my entire life. And I was like, I need to meet him. He's like, he happens to be here in Vegas. He's from Rochester. Introduced me. I hired him as my coach right away. I'm hearing all these people talk about strategic coach at the same event, and they had a booth. So I signed up for Strategic Coach, which meant I had to part with some of my money. Think it was $7,500 I hired Steve as a one on one mentor, and all of a sudden I was investing in myself, yeah. And I broke free from those chains of like, reduction and restriction into the game of production. And then I even had a situation where a woman called me out at the same event. This was a life changing event where she's like, I wonder what it's like living in a financial prison you built for your wife. It's like, Oh, see, that's what happened. I thought I was responsible, and building that responsibility that's actually building walls. And when I came home for that event, my wife and I started looking for our home. Within a few months, we found one. I bought a home. It was very easily within my means. I basically made as much as I paid for this house that we loved. We lived there for nine years. We built so many memories. You know, we had our two kids while we were there, I started host study groups, and that year, I grew my income by $170,000 with the coaching of strategic coach, Steve dnunzio And this woman, Nancy, calling me out. The next year, it grew by even more because the skills started to compound. I decided from that moment forward, I would spend at least $40,000 a year, which I might be able to reach for some people, but at least $40,000 a year on mentors. Is a guy named Alan. He writes my meal plans and my workouts, and I'm at 10% body fat because he knows exactly what they do. I do what he says. It was worth this $10,000 investment, because now I pay attention what I pay for, and I look at like if I'm my greatest asset, how can I create more energy? How can I create more value? How can I feel better about myself? How can I show up the very best version of I am, so I can deliver the most to the other people. And so I've always just been in amazing groups. I just got back from two different events in Beverly Hills around amazing people, learning incredible things that allow me to grow. I haven't spent a huge amount of money on a mentor last year to figure out something that I hadn't been able to figure out to this point. It's the same thing I did to become a speaker, to become a writer or even learn how to sell or market, you've got to invest in the skill, not just in the savings account. You grow yourself first, and then you grow your money. If you starve yourself out because you're in that miserly mindset, you're going to stunt your growth and never be fully fulfilled.   Keith Weinhold  27:56   You're your own best investment. And yes, this stuff is the varying definition of investing in yourself. Don't live below your means. Grow your means and all of that.   Garrett Gunderson  28:05   Grow your means and be more efficient within your means. I mean, the best way I know how to save is not overpay on tax, which 98% of business owners are doing that today. You know, don't overpay on interest, because you either restructure your loans, renegotiate your interest rates, reallocate underpouring funds to pay it off, or you remove investment drag. A lot of people have unnecessary fees and hidden commissions that drag on their investments. Or just design your insurance properly so it's more efficient. Those four i's, IRS, interest, investments and insurance show you how to keep more of what you make, take some of that money, build up your foundation so you have a peace of mind fund, so you have staying power, at least six months of liquidity and then invest more into yourself or learn how to create cash flow. This is the game the wealthy play. But the poor middle class, they think it's about paying off a mortgage and funding the retirement plan, and they will argue about it until it's too late, when they get there and now their homes paid off, but the property taxes are higher than their mortgage was 20 years ago, you know. Or they have home maintenance they have to take care of, or inflation has destroyed the value. Like if someone were to put away 100 grand and they wait for 30 years if they got 10% which the market did the last 30 years, if you reinvest dividends, they're going to have right around $1.7 million but if they have to pay 2% in fees, fiduciary fees, 12 b1 fees, which are marketing fees for the fund expense ratio, you know, the fees of maybe a retirement plan, and they now have 2% fees. It only goes to 1.1 million. Huge difference. And that 1.1 million if we account for inflation, even if we said inflation was low, like 2.7% over that 30 years. Well, by the time we pay for inflation and tax, guess what? The purchasing power value is like, 300 grand $300,000 that's a problem, and it's because they didn't learn to create cash flow. It's because they didn't learn to invest in themselves. It's because they relied completely on a market they don't control. I'm not saying the market is completely something to avoid. I'm saying we go in sequence. How do you grow your income for. First, then how do you keep more of the income you make with? You know, financial savvy and plugging leaks. Then learn to grow your money, but maybe growing your money. For some I like to think of like three dimensional assets, like real estate's three dimensional. It can grow in equity, it can create cash flow, and it has tax advantages. But my business is three dimensional, the more my business creates cash flow, without me, the more equity it has, and that business has major tax advantages. So most people are one dimensional, pay off a loan, put a money in retirement account. That's the poor, middle class. Wealthy people build a system where they've got three dimensional assets, equity, cash flow and tax savings. And that is a complete game changer, because then they can employ the buy borrowed I strategy, if you have assets like, you know, an individual stock, or if you have assets, like a piece of real estate or a business, you could borrow against it. There's no tax on that five for life, right? You keep refinancing. Or you can even do charitable trust to avoid the taxes upon the sell of those paying no tax when there's gains. Or you can pass it on to the next generation with a step up in basis, which means they get it at the full value and not have to pay the difference. And if you have life insurance, the life insurance will pay back the loan that tax free as well. So buy, borrow, die. I mean, it's a completely different thought process of defer taxes. If you defer taxes, I get it. You could do a Roth IRA or Roth 401. K Sure, that'll let you put after tax money in and grow it. But where's the cash flow? What's the underlying investment? How does it help you create financial independence? How does it help you does it help you grow your skills to become a better investor? We've been taught to be lazy, not that people are lazy. We've just been taught to be lazy with our money. We've been fed a narrative. I don't have the time, I don't have the skill, I don't have the interest, but I want to have it, so I just hand it over. And who do we hand it over to Keith Wall Street. Wall would you trust Wall Street? Like you flew to Frankfurt not long ago. Would you get on Wall Street airlines where they're like, hey, sometimes our planes go up, sometimes they go down. That would brand, and he'd feel inspired, right? Would you go to Wall Street, you know, hospital? Or like, hey, he lost one of your kidneys, and by loss, we stole it and resold it. You know, like, Wall Street doesn't have a brand. That's good. It's boiler room. It's Wolf of Wall Street. It's the movie Wall Street with Michael Douglas. You know, greed is good like yet that's what people put their money into. And you can go to any downtown and any major city, and guess who has the biggest buildings, insurance companies, banks and Wall Street investment companies. So you're taking the size of your home and shrinking it to build up their building and put money in their pocket. And their story is, it's because they're Ivy League, they're smart. They try to make it complicated, but you don't have to know most of the things you think you need to know about finance. The foundational things are important, how to protect your assets, how to design insurance, to transfer risk, how to have some liquidity, how to automate your savings. And then you focus like Warren Buffett would teach. He said, You know how people would become a better investor if they only had 20 investments they could make over their lifetime? He says, I don't diversify because I'm in the know. He's like, I'm a good businessman, therefore I'm a good investor and I'm a good investor because I'm a good businessman. I don't separate the two. Yeah, most people think he's a stock market investor. No, he buys out the companies in the stock market. Rarely does he have minority stakes in it. He does have some of that, maybe with Coca Cola and apple, but he bought a lot of companies outright, whether it was Geico, whether it was See's Candies, whether it was like he buys these companies, he's so far outperformed the stock market by billions of dollars from an index fund like what he has, versus someone that put the same money in an index fund, Warren has billions more from his investments than the person that put all their money in the index fund, even if it was the same amount. It's completely about strategy, not about luck.   Keith Weinhold  33:30   Yeah, it's the Andrew Carnegie, put all your eggs in one basket and then watch your basket. Yeah? Watch that basket like a hawk. Totally. Yeah. I mean, stacks mutual funds, they have what I call those five simultaneous drags. If you think you're getting a 10% long term return over time, subtract out inflation, emotion, taxes, fees and volatility. What do you have left? Not much. But there's no friction there. It is just the easiest thing to do ever since decades ago, 401 K contributions begin to become automated throughout your paycheck, sometimes even automatically, automated   Garrett Gunderson  34:04   values your permission opt out. It's easy. You have to opt out, right? It's Big Brother. You don't know what's best for you. And by the way, how crazy are four one K's. Part of the reason the market has gone up in value is because people consistently fund for one case, whether the market's going up or down, they're told $8 cost average. So that's artificially fueling the market. When we see the numbers, there's a buffet index, and it's like 2.9 times higher than what he's comfortable with, with the stock market, because of how overinflated the market is, partially due to inflation, partially because people put money in. But let's remember, why did 401, K's even come about? Because pensions failed. And by the way, these pensions failed and they had world class money managers managing these multi billion dollar pensions, but they didn't know about something called disinvesting, or didn't know enough about it. When the market goes down and pension money is owed, they still have to pull money out of the pension to pay the employee which disinvests, which pulls more money out of the account. So now instead of just being 10% down, they might be 17% down. And so even if the market comes back 10% it's 10% of only 83% of the money. So not even back to square one. And if it goes down a second year in a row, they're in real trouble. It starts to chip away at the principal, and they can't recover. And that happened to pensions, and they said, Oh, here, we can't handle these. We're going bankrupt. We're going to get rid of pensions. You take care of it. Well, guess what? Vanguard says, the average balance in a 401, k right now is $148,000 how someone's supposed to live on $148,000 even if you could get 10% that's $14,800 a year taxable, that's not going to do it. Even if you have a million dollars, where are you going to put the million dollars to get the return without risking it going down? Maybe you're going to be in treasuries at 5% that's $50,000 taxable per year. You're a millionaire on paper, but living poorly. That's why I'm here to call these things out. I think that my book Killing Sacred Cows, which was my original New York Times bestseller, which is probably how we met. Yeah, I rewrote it. I rewrote it, rereleased it in 2024 and I'll give people the audiobook. They just have to DM me on Instagram. Garrett B Gunderson and DM the word cows with Keith's name, cows and Keith or Keith and cows. I'll hook you up with the book for free, so you can learn about the nine financial myths. We're talking about some of them here, but there's also some comedy in there, so they can laugh after each chapter. I threw some comedy in there. You know, if you like my comedy, I'm not the funniest comedian. I'm just the funniest money comedian. That's the reality.   Keith Weinhold  36:33   When we had the very inventor of the 401 k plan, Ted benna, come onto the show, he revealed to us that when 401 K plans rolled out, they were first called salary reduction plans. They had to scrap that name in order to foster participation. But reducing your salary is still principally what it does to you. You got to think about it that way and blow up some of these myths. But Garrett, you've already given a lot of great technical information about what someone can do, how someone can think differently. Bigger pictures, we're sort of winding down here. You know, when I'm thinking about this whole delayed versus denied gratification thing, how do you meter it out right throughout your life? I mean, what's your earmark your family legacy? How do you meter it out, right so you don't have too much or too little at the end of your life?   Garrett Gunderson  37:15   I like to see this strategy of, like, what would the rockfellers do that I wrote about is, you know, the beginning before that strategy is you pay yourself first, which has always been around Richest Man in Babylon. Tons of books talk about it. My argument is you want to pay yourself at least 15% of your personal income, off the top, to a separate account. Once you get six months in that account, now you start to invest that money, but you build your stability with that peace of mind. And we want 15% because the luxury once enjoyed becomes a necessity. So you want more money in the future, not the future, not less propensity to you know, there's also, just like planned obsolescence, things break down. You have to repair them. Technological change, we're buying new technology that doesn't even exist. I have now subscriptions to a bunch of AI things that help me out, right? But I'm spending more money. There's also taxes, those could go up in the future, or 38 trillion in debt as we film this, which is a crazy number. And there's also inflation. If we give 3% to each of those five factors, that's 15% now again, use the four i's, IRS, interest, investments and insurance to find that money, not just budgeting. But then here's the magic. At least 3% of your income should go to a separate account called the Living wealthy account. That's your guilt free spending, value based spending account, so you enjoy some money along the way. These are the things that are the finer things in life that people might say are wasteful. You know, there's a book called unreasonable hospitality that talks about this, 11 Madison Avenue was the number one rated restaurant in the world. And, you know, will who wrote the book talked about they had 3% of their budget to just go wild on their customers dream making money, right? So to create the special experience in the restaurant, and even the bear, I think was season three, showed some of that process of how they do that. So I highly recommend taking a certain percentage. You get to enjoy along the way. It could be higher than 3% but start there, and you're going to feel better, you're going to have different energy, you're going to show up in a different way. And then from there, I just believe in having trust, so that your money's outside of your estate, and protecting financial predators so you own nothing but control everything. And I personally use life insurance. I use just standard over, you know, like basically properly structured, optimally funded whole life, so that death benefit will come in after I die. It allows me to spend more of my money and then have it replenished so I can enjoy more of my money along the way, because I know that death benefit will be there for my wife or even for my family trust after I'm gone, so I don't disinherit the people that I love.   Keith Weinhold  39:31   Garrett Gunderson, he can take you through these steps, which he calls financially fit, to financially independent, and then finally to financially free. Tell us a little more about that going through those steps.   Garrett Gunderson  39:44   So financial fitness means your financial house is in order. You've got everything handled properly, car insurance, homeowners, liability, disability, medical life insurance, your corporate structures as a business owner, how you pay yourself, your taxes the last three years and move. Moving forward your investments. It's like, you know what it's going on. You've improved your cash flow, and you're dialed in. You're as safe as you could possibly be. Then financial independence is, how can we create income, especially from a business that comes in when you don't, that's people, that's processes, that's technology, so that you can be involved, but you don't have to be involved. This is the part most people miss, yeah, and I think it's crazy. A lot of people have this notion they're just going to work so hard so they can sell their business one day, I'm like, What about just creating a business that you love so much you don't want to sell it? What about giving up the things that are burning you out and have the employees that can take care of that so you do the things that you love and then just enjoy life along the way, take some little trips, take some time off and come back in. The business grows up when you're away, they learn how to do things without you, and then you can still create value into that business. I sold the business in 2021 and really regretted it, because I kind of was so removed from the business. I kind of felt like it lost its soul and I didn't feel connected to it. So this time around, I started a business in July of 2024 I'm like, I'm only going to work with the P with the people I love, building things that I love, and I'm not going to let myself get burned out by doing too much. We're going to take two weeks in Hawaii coming up here in April, just enjoy some time together as a family. We do quarterly family retreats with my wife and kids. We do traditions with my family up at my cabin, like I want to have this great life where it's blurs the lines between work and play. I have a little quote from someone else that talks about that art of life is blurring the lines between work and play, but also just having complete play sometimes that there is no work. So I come back refreshed, relaxed, rejuvenated and ready to create. And so really, that financial independence gives you permission to swing for the fences and what you do, knowing your foundation is handled, knowing that your lifestyle is covered, from assets to create cash flow gives you work optional freedom. But instead of retiring, think, what could your biggest impact be like? Create the life you don't want to retire from. Create a vision so compelling you can dedicate your life to it and find that the win is actually in the work, not just the outcome. I think that is the elegance of we win when we play, and when we have more play in our life. We don't try to escape from something. And when you start something, you might have to do things you hate, but you can eventually delegate it, and then life becomes great. I mean, one of my early coaches, Dan Sullivan, who I mentioned, a strategic coach. He's in his 80s, still behemoth of creating value in the in the market. To listen to him, you know, he's phenomenal. He's made such a huge difference in my life, and he has no intent of retiring. He just gets smarter every year, adds more value, builds more infrastructure, and he's the one that taught me the merit of free days, just taking time off, taking time away. So, yeah, that's financial independence. Is cash flow, and then financial freedom is a state of mind. It's when money is no longer the primary reason or excuse you would do or not do something. It's a consideration, but it's no longer the consideration means that you have a healthy relationship with money. Money is an asset and an ally, not an enemy. You don't come from a place of scarcity. You come from a place of abundance. You can be more present with your family and doing what you do without feeling distracted. I think wealth is our ability to be present, not necessarily how much money we have in a bank account. I think we have a good amount of money in a bank account, and we can be present. That is like true wealth.   Keith Weinhold  43:12   It harkens back to the John D Rockefeller, he who works all day has no time to make money. Rockefeller would have said, you can architect a wealth plan if your head is down on the assembly line, that means gradually move your offer. It's from trading your time for dollars over to owning assets that pay you to own them. Garrett's comedy special is called the American Ream. There's no D in that word, R, E, A, M. You can look that up, Garrett. It's been enlightening as always. Thanks so much for coming back onto the show.   Garrett Gunderson  43:43   Hey man, good to be back.   Keith Weinhold  43:51   Always. A lively conversation with Garrett, besides some great mindset perspective, he's really good at saving you tax and setting you up with asset protection. Though he's not as real estateish as me, he's pretty savvy. For example, He's aligned on the fact that, for example, say you have an 80k debt. Well, it doesn't necessarily mean that it makes sense for you to pay that off sometimes it does, but what happens to your net worth anytime you pay off an 80k debt, well, let's see. You've reduced your asset side by 80k and you've reduced your debt side by 80k so your net worth is the same, and retiring the debt means that you might have lost leverage, lost cash flow and lost tax advantages, all at the same time on Instagram, send a DM with the two words, Keith Cows to Garrett B Gunderson, and he'll hook you up with his book for free next week on the show, we go deep on does America really have a housing shortage with an expert analyst. Until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.    Speaker 4  45:01   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  45:29   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth. Building, get richeducation.com  

Episode Overview In this powerful episode of the Agent to CEO Podcast, John Kitchens sits down with Chad Smith for a deep conversation on leadership, faith, discipline, and building a real estate business that actually lasts. Chad shares his incredible journey—from chasing a music career and hitting rock bottom at 23, to rebuilding his life through faith, mentorship, and personal responsibility. He walks through how foundational principles—not tactics—became the key to scaling a $100M+ real estate team, leading hundreds of agents, and maintaining a 20+ year commitment to faith, family, and purpose. This is not a "hacks and scripts" conversation. This is about priority structure, uncommon honor, servant leadership, and what it truly takes to win long-term. If you want seven-figure success without sacrificing what matters most, this episode will challenge and sharpen you. Chad's Origin Story: From Rock Bottom to Real Estate Leadership Walking away from a soccer scholarship to pursue music Playing the Whiskey A Go Go in Hollywood at 20 years old Facing rejection and spiraling into rock bottom by age 23 The life-changing influence of his uncle and exposure to Rich Dad, Poor Dad Discovering a new framework for life through faith and the "Man of Honor" message Committing to a priority structure that changed everything Chad made a declaration early: He would never become a "shooting star" again. The Priority Structure That Changed His Life Chad breaks down the foundation that drives every decision he makes: Faith Marriage Children Excellence in business to serve others Rather than building business at the expense of family, Chad built leadership capacity so he wouldn't have to choose between success and presence. He hasn't worked nights or weekends since 2009—and his production scaled because of it, not in spite of it. Uncommon Honor: The Core Value That Scales Culture Chad introduces the concept of Uncommon Honor, a leadership philosophy that drives his team culture. What it means: Honor those who showed you the way Honor your peers Honor those who can't "help" you Tell the truth—even when it's uncomfortable Protect the environment at all costs "If at any point I'm unwilling to say what needs to be said, that's the moment the environment begins to die." This is servant leadership without weakness. Truth with courage. Culture without compromise. The Leadership Shift: From Competitor to Capacity Builder Chad shares a powerful mindset shift: If you're threatened by your team's greatness, you'll never scale. He lives by this commitment: "I'm not afraid of you being great." Key leadership insights: Every dream is a dream inside a dream The moment a leader becomes a limiting factor to talent is the moment the relationship ends Competition is rooted in scarcity True growth comes from competing against your own potential This is the shift from ego-driven leadership to legacy-driven leadership. Building a $100M+ Team Without Losing Alignment Chad details how he: Went from individual agent of the year to scaling leadership capacity Helped grow a Keller Williams office to one of the most profitable in the world Sold 371 homes in a 12-month period with a lean, disciplined team Built core values intentionally—not aspirationally Created "The Real Solution" coaching community rooted in long-term principles His focus isn't hype. It's systems, discipline, daily consistency, and alignment. The Real Solution vs. The Easy Button Chad challenges the modern "magic bullet" mentality. In a world obsessed with shortcuts, he built growth through: Daily consistency (260+ live leadership sessions per year) Clear values Intentional mentorship Long-term commitment "You either train the algorithm, or the algorithm trains you." This is about discipline over distraction. Foundation over flash. Books & Influences Mentioned Rich Dad, Poor Dad – Robert Kiyosaki The Success System That Never Fails – W. Clement Stone Wooten on Leadership – John Wooden John Maxwell leadership books Resources & Connect with Chad Instagram: @ChadSmithRealSolution Website: TheRealSolution.com Team: DFW Real Estate Team Final Takeaway This episode isn't about better scripts. It's about better structure. If you want to scale your real estate business without sacrificing your marriage, your kids, or your integrity, you must: Get your priority structure right Lead with uncommon honor Refuse to compete from scarcity Never become a limiting factor to your team Commit to consistency over hype Seven-figure success doesn't start with tactics. It starts with thinking like a CEO—and leading like a servant. "Seven figure success starts when you start thinking like a CEO." – John Kitchens Connect with Us: Instagram: @johnkitchenscoach LinkedIn: @johnkitchenscoach Facebook: @johnkitchenscoach If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to subscribe and leave a review. Stay tuned for more insights and strategies from the top minds. See you next time!

Keith digs into what's really going on with apartments now that values in many markets have dropped 20–40%. You'll hear why larger multifamily properties have been hit so much harder than one-to-four unit rentals, and what that means for both current owners and new buyers. "The Apartment King," Brad Sumrok, joins the conversation to share how recent economic shifts, financing structures, and market forces have reshaped the apartment landscape—and why he believes we may be near a key turning point in the cycle. You'll also learn how investors are approaching deals differently today, what makes certain markets and property types more attractive right now.  Resources: Learn more about Brad here. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/594 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold us. Apartment Building values have fallen 2030, even, 40% over the past few years. Investors lost millions. What are all the reasons that it happened? And when will apartments turn around? I'm joined by the apartment king today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:26   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold, writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:09   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com you   Corey Coates  1:40   you're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:59   Welcome to GRE from Monterrey, California to Monterrey, Mexico and across 188 nations worldwide. America's favorite shaved mammal on a microphone has got his slack. John, act back on track for another wealth building week with you. I'm Keith Weinhold. This is get rich education, and I'm still not wearing a pair of Dockers. We all know that the one to four unit space single family homes, up to four plexes have held under their values despite soured affordability, but five plus unit apartment buildings are a drastically different story. We're going to talk about just how much value they've lost recently, and the reasons why it's about more than just the interest rates doubling and tripling that began in 2022 Today's guest is an apartment educator. His students have had both losses and wins over time. I'll ask about both, because adversity is where you get the lessons now today, you might buy an apartment building at a steep discount compared to what it sold for five years ago. And who might you buy an apartment from today, it might not be the type of seller that you're thinking about because of owners defaulting you might now be buying it from a bank that had to basically repossess it. Yeah, you might try to buy it from a lender at 60% of the loan amount. Well, a lender doesn't want to do a 40% write down, so they're going to try to get more and see. That's how this could practically look today for an apartment owner that survived the crisis and is still standing today. They're asking themselves, now, why would I sell at a discount if I don't have to? So they're probably going to try to hold on. And then, of course, the tenants in these apartments don't know that any of this is going on now. I own a lot of single family rental homes myself, also apartment buildings in the one to one and a half million dollar range is where I've played, and often that ends up being eight to 12 units, because in that space, I don't need partners to invest in assets of that size. One to $2 million is also small enough so that you're not competing with institutional money and other players. Today, I'll tell you what I did with some of those buildings myself when interest rates reset about four years ago, and before you and I wrap up the show today, I've got something to tell you about what's coming in future. GRE episodes here stuff that's really unexpected as the apartment King waits in the wings. One last thing to tell you about, like I mentioned to you recently, investors say that they want an opportunity, but what they really want is certainty. Once certainty arrives, the opportunity. Is gone.    Keith Weinhold  5:01   Our GRE live event last Thursday was a success. It is about how central Florida is the most compelling housing market right now, with the builder offering rate buy downs as low as 3.75% and, you know, I just ran the numbers on something, and I can hardly believe this. All right, right. Now owner occupied mortgage rates are near 6% this means investment property rates are almost 7% with the rate by down to 4% here's how your cash flow looks with a 30 year fixed rate mortgage on a 300k loan with a 7% rate, your p and i payment is 1996 at a 4% rate. It's just 1432, this is a reduction of $564 per month, a whopping payment difference. That's really the difference between treading water and stacking cash flow on these brand new build properties that we're talking about here in Central Florida. So talking about opportunity and certainty, that is a big measure of both. Yeah, before I ran the numbers, I didn't realize that the spread was this wide. With high demand for these properties, the builder does have some more available, a long term fixed rate of around 4% it should be up for you now you can see the limited time replay of GRE, freshest live event at grewebinars.com, in case you want to look into This again, grewebinars.com let's discuss the apartment market. Foreign apartment building values have fallen at 20% 30% even 40% over the past few years, depending on the market that they're in today, we're going to learn how bad it is, why it happened, and if that actually creates an opportunity here in the late 2020s, decade, our guest is known as the apartment king. He is the number one nationally known educator and mentor for apartment investing. He started with a bang in 2002 by making his first ever real estate investment, not a four Plex like I did, but a 32 unit apartment building, and he's now owned and invested in over 11,000 units and over 1 billion in assets under management. He's received awards like the naa independent owner of the year, and he's the star of the massively popular in person events that he puts on, which you'll learn about soon. Hey, it's been several years. Welcome back to the show. Brad sumrock,   Brad Sumrok  7:46   hey, Keith. It's really good to be on again. Nice to be here.   Keith Weinhold  7:50   Brad and I were together in person last month, and we also talked physical fitness. Then Brad is one of the fittest guys you'll ever meet in person. He just looks fantastic. We want to hear about your apartment forecast shortly. Brad, let's talk about the hard stuff. First, you've endured adversity since we last had you here several years ago. Tell us about that.   Brad Sumrok  8:14    Well, look, I mean, I think anyone that's been serious about investing in apartments over the last five years. And I'll also say it this way, anyone who did a deal and say 21 the middle of 21 till probably the end of 2022 it's very likely that that property is worth less today than than it was when we bought it. So that, in itself, has created, you know, adversity, because I got into the business in 2002 and the market went up until 2008 and we went through a downturn in 2008 nine and 10, as is, I'm sure you're aware. And then the market went up again until around 2021, mid year. And then, due to so many reasons, and I could go into those reasons, but let me just just cut to the chase. That you alluded to is we had another downturn, and so the downturn, you know, impacts property values, it impacts confidence, it impacts investor appetite to do deals. It impacts just about everything related to the business, on the investment side, and the other business that I'm in, which is the seminars, the events and the mentoring. So it's been a big downturn, and we could go into those, you know, into the reasons why, and I'm sure you'd like to know my take on that. But now is a great time, because things are recovering, and one of the things Tony Robbins teaches Keith is pattern recognition. It's like I've been through two downturns, and I could see the patterns, and it occurs to me that we're at or near the bottom of a cycle. So like it's also a good time to be gearing up.   Keith Weinhold  9:50   Now, many realize but for those uninitiated on this, the one to four unit space really didn't feel much pain starting in 2022 so much of that is time. Two people get long term fixed interest rate debt on the one to four unit property, but it's shorter term debt on five plus unit apartment buildings. So when interest rates went up, people soon had to pay those higher rates. They were underwater. That's really the genesis of so much of the apartment building pain.   Brad Sumrok  10:19   Well, and I would say, look, it was, I'm going to throw a bunch of things at you here. So we had the pandemic, right? And during the pandemic, people got paid to stay home from work, right? The government printed, what, $5 trillion worth of money, right? And so that kicked off what became a period of, like, very high inflation. And you know, the published number was 9% but I think a lot of people experience certain items that were a lot more than 9% like, for example, for sure, in 2022 when we bought a 286 unit property, you know, we were able to replace all the appliances inside of a unit in The kitchen, you know, for $1,800 and even today it's like $3,200 so that's a little bit more than 9% and so we had that. So we had the printing of money, we had inflation, we had variable rate debt. Why did people do variable rate debt? The first thing I'll say is there is a place for variable rate debt. But what happened in 2021 and 2022 is the fixed rate lenders, which are typically the government sponsored agencies Fannie and Freddie. They were still lending money, but because of their criteria for lending, if you would go with one of those loans, you would get like 50% leverage the shorter term lenders that would give you the three year loans, you can still get like 75 to 80% leverage. So the vast amount of people that were buying anything in 2021 and 2022 I mean, I'm not just talking about myself. I'm talking about people with 2030, 4050, 70,000 doors all over the country, they were buying with short term debt. And historically, short term debt performs at or better than long term debt. I mean, think about it, when you get a long term, 10 year fixed rate loan and multifamily you have prepayment penalties. You know, when the market's constantly going up like it did, from 2012 to 2022 you could get that fixed term loan. You could pay it off early, you could pay the seven figure prepayment penalty, and you could still make lots and lots of money, and that's what people were doing. So when you bake in the prepayment penalties on long term debt, you know short term debt is oftentimes the better option. Well, nobody saw the Fed raising rate 16 times in 12 months. And look, I don't care what anybody says, Nobody predicted it. If they had predicted it, they would be probably the richest person in the world right now, right nobody saw a comment like, there may have been some people that said, hey, yeah, this is going to happen, or this is going to happen. But what actually happened with the Fed rates over a very short period of time was unprecedented. Unprecedented means it never happened before. So it's not something you could anticipate or something anyone can model. Okay? And so what that did is most of us had what's called an interest rate cap, which is an insurance policy that if the rates go up too much, that yours is capped. But the problem with those rate caps is they're only good for like, two years, right? So we're buying these deals in 2021 and we're getting short term debt, which is a three year debt. And in two years, in 2023 the rate cap expires, and now the rates are 9% instead of 3% and when we bought the deal, the rate cap insurance was $40,000 and now it's a million dollars. And so you're in a very awkward, unfriendly financial situation. And it wasn't just that. So it wasn't just inflation, it wasn't just interest rates. And many of us sung belt markets, specifically Texas and Florida, which historically have been some of the best markets to invest in, because of migration and no taxes, and then landlord and business friendly environments. Well, these states also suffered a lot of named storms, with, you know, hurricanes and wind storms and hail storms and so in these markets, at the same time, we had rising rates. At the same time, we had massive inflation. Now we also have insurance rates doubling or even tripling in some occasions. And then the final thing was, during the pandemic, a lot of the multifamily projects that were in the middle of being built, these development projects, they all slowed down. People couldn't work. And so back in 2020, or after we're fully recovered from the pandemic, some of these markets, like Nashville and Austin and Dallas and Houston and Phoenix, they got deluged Keith with new supply coming on, like a disproportionate amount of new supply. So there's like five. Five things that contributed to multifamily being really tough in the last few years. And so it wasn't just people with short term debt that had challenges. It was probably just about anybody that bought a deal within an 18 month timeframe that I outlined before that just really experienced challenges, and some of those people are still in deals, right? And so let's just take a deal that's, you know, a $10 million deal with a $7 million loan. Well, that deal right now might be only worth 7 million, yeah, and that's the opportunity. So the owner that has that deal may get punched in the face, so to speak, you know, by the market, and they may lose their equity in that deal, but the borrower coming in, or the buyer coming in, like one of my mentees right now, had a deal that was listed at 11 million, and he's picking it up for seven, which is, like, at or below the current loan value. So one buyer group's loss is the new buyer group's opportunity, if that makes sense   Keith Weinhold  16:03    right? 100% there's nothing unusual at all about the mortgage rate levels that began to go higher about four years ago. The unusual part, and Brad has touched on it, is the rate of increase, with mortgage rates doubling or tripling in a short period of time, within about a year or so, but yeah, it's a great point. It's about more than the mortgage rates. It's about increasing insurance costs and increasing expenses of all types, like you talked about with the appliances there, and then, even if you were able to weather all that as an apartment building owner, with all of the supply coming on to the market, when supply exceeds demand, we know what happens to price, and we also know that you can't raise rents very much with all of this supply coming on the market, but the supply of new apartment buildings, that inflow, that wave, is beginning to die down, because builders got the memo quite a while ago that they need to stop building at such a fast pace in places like Florida and Texas and you know, Brad, there are a lot of asset classes that have been beaten up lately. We can always point to a few. You can look at Bitcoin or nfts or even commercial office space. Now those assets might bounce back, but they don't have to, because no human needs those things. But I expect apartments to bounce back because having a place to live is a primordial Maslow and human need. It's almost inevitable. In fact, shelter is at the base of Maslow's hierarchy of needs. So a bounce back has almost got to happen. Yeah.   Brad Sumrok  17:46   Look, it's becoming the big word right now in politics. Right is affordability. And so when you look at affordability, if you take a median priced home in this country of say, $400,000 I don't know if that's the actual median, but maybe it's around 400 420,000 100, $420,000 yes, to buy that home. And who's going to buy a $420,000 home? It's going to be a working class family making 60 to 70,000 a year, right? They could rent a median priced apartment unit for $1,800 a month, or they could pay a 20% or a 10% down payment on a $400,000 homes, and they need 40 to 80,000 down right, or maybe less, but they still need a down payment and that p i, t i, the principal, interest, tax and insurance is going to be around $3,100 okay, so there's a $1,300 per month gap, and that's a big, big gap for that working class family. And so where are they going to live? Like we're becoming more and more of a renter nation? Keith, and the statistics that I read say that only 27% of American families can even qualify to get a mortgage, yeah, on a $400,000 home. So we're becoming more and more and more of a nation of renters by necessity. And so the demographics like look, all markets are not equal. You got to know what's going on in your market. But there are markets, ie locations, geographies that have even a higher affordability gap. You know, some markets have a 2000 a month or a $2,500 a month affordability gap. So you're going to find more and more people renting in these markets.   Keith Weinhold  19:37   Yes, there is a premium to ownership opening up that gap, and that's why we have this wave of renters that's really already begun. In about the last year, the American homeownership rate has fallen from 66% to 65% 1% doesn't sound like much, but that already means that we have 1.3 million new renters. We're going to talk to Brad some more, including about. His apartment market forecast you're listening to get rich education. Our guest is apartment King. Brad sumrock, more when we come back, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold,    Keith Weinhold  20:09   flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio through a 721 exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture. It's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE. That's f, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre,   Keith Weinhold  20:45   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products. They've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep. Text their freedom. Coach, directly. Again. 1-937-795-8989,   Hal Elrod  21:58   this is Hal Elrod, author of The Miracle Morning, and listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  22:13   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold. We're talking about a sector we have not talked about very much lately because it's been in rather moribund condition, but we are beginning to turn the corner where there are more opportunities in apartment building investing, because it's been beaten down an awful lot. And Brad, that plays right in to your apartment forecast. So tell us about some of the highlights of your apartment forecast.   Brad Sumrok  22:38   Yeah, sure. And one of the things that I want to share with you, Keith, is that, you know, back in the peak of the market, the market peaked, say, at the end of 21 early 22 there were so many investors that were in multifamily or that wanted to be in multifamily. And the other thing that caused this so called, you know, downturn that I didn't mention before is, let's take this $10 million deal. If a property was listed at $10 million you'd literally have 30 to 40 buyer groups pursuing that deal, bidding up the price. Yeah. And so a $10 million Listing would sell for 11 and a half million Okay, now what I'm seeing is that same $10 million deal might sell for a seven to 8 million and you might be the only buyer going after the deal. Wow. And how do I know? Because you said, like, I run a an investor community and and I have active multifamily buyers, and I coach them, and I look at their deals, and this is what's happening. And the other reason I know is I sold two of my deals personally in 2025 and both of the deals that I sold, I bought in 2015 where we had 10 year fixed rate debt. So we didn't sell because we had a three year loan. We needed to sell because we had a 10 year loan due. And look, first thing I'll say is I made money, because over that 10 year period, values did go up. They peaked in 2022 and they came back down that because I bought it so long ago. That's the one lesson that I think people also want to understand, is over the long term, the values always tend to go up, but there are short term ups and downs that one would need to be aware of. But when I sold these two deals like I didn't have many buyers one deal in particular. I mean, I had eight buyers going after the deal, but only one was anywhere close to what I wanted. So I was negotiating with myself, you know, telling the buyer and his broker, hey, you know the other guys are here, and you got to come up on price and you got to come up on terms. But truthfully, I was bluffing, because I didn't have anybody that was coming up on price or coming up on terms. And so part of why I'm answering this way is when you look at the forecast, one thing that that I want people to know is that those. Of us that are in the business now and that have our pencils up, and we're underwriting deals, and we're making offers, like I used to teach Keith, don't make lowball offers, because you'll develop a reputation of being that guy or that borrower or that buyer that submits lowball offers, right? And word will get around in that market? Well, right now, like low ball offers are expected, and I would encourage people, let's just say you make an offer that whatever the deal pencils out to. So if you know how to underwrite deals correctly, and they're offering 10 million as a listing price, and you're coming up at seven or 7.5 don't be bashful to make the offer, and you may be the only buyer in the game. So that's one thing is like the competition that I'm seeing right now on the buyer side is not a lot of competition, and that's definitely shifted to a buyer's market. So people need to know that. The other thing I would say, on the macro level, is there's still a lot of uncertainty out there, and the uncertainty is kind of becoming like what I would call a new normal. You know? I'll speak for myself. When Trump was elected and at the end of 2024 I thought it was going to be amazingly well for all of us real estate investors, right? And there are some things that have been like the big, beautiful bill that restores 100% bonus depreciation like this is a really good thing, but you know, the tariffs, the immigration policies, some of the things that he's doing, you know, they have mixed impact for us and our in the economy and in real estate and in multifamily. And the thing is, when he first started doing that again, like lenders, they didn't know how to price debt, like, what's going to happen with tariffs, what's going to happen with ice what's going to happen with immigration, you know? But now that we're a year in to his second term, I can tell you a couple things. Debt is back. Lenders are lending. They're confident. Lenders are issuing debt like you can get 70 to 75% of your acquisition funded by a commercial lender. The government agencies are lending. Freddie Mac is lending. Fannie Mae is lending, and they have a mandate to lend 20% more money in 2026 than they did in 2025 so that bodes well for people that want to get, you know, affordable workforce housing, which is my specialty, also known as Class B and Class C housing. So the lenders are lending like, there's a lot of debt out there. One of the challenges is the equity. There's a lot of institutional equity. But if you're going to the retail investor who got into the business three to five years ago. They don't want to hear about your next deal right now, they're wondering about, hey, what about the deals that I'm in? Right? So one of the things that I'm doing, Keith is, and I think, you know, this is like, you know, I build up a huge investor community from 2012 to 2022 and I did it by traveling the country, speaking at conferences, sponsoring trade shows, talking about the benefits of investing in apartment buildings, how it changed my life, how it enabled me to retire from a six figure income in just three years, and how I've helped many, many other people Do the same, and also just sharing experience today, every asset class, every 10 to 15 years is going to go through a correction. And so where we're at now. And I wasn't the only one on the forecast. I brought in John Chang who is the senior intelligence officer at Marcus and millichep, one of the biggest commercial real estate firms in the country, and he presented about 20 or 30 slides that by and large were very bullish on where we're at in the market cycle. Why now is a great time to be looking at apartment buildings, a lot of the same things that I've been talking about. Prices are down. It's a buyer's market. We have a huge affordability issue. More and more people are becoming renters, and so what I'm committed to do, Keith and I don't know if I shared with you my travel schedule, like when we met each other last month, but I'm on the road every single week going to another city, talking about where I see us right now in the market, and why people should be looking at deals and making offers right now. Because to me, you know, Warren Buffett said it best. He's like, you want to be fearful when everybody else is being greedy, and you want to be greedy when everybody's being fearful. And right now, people are on the sidelines. They're waiting for some green light, like for the Wall Street Journal to come out and say, Hey, now's a good time, you know? I mean, look, Trump, just the point of the new Fed chair, right? And so we know interest rates are going to go down like that's one of his goals, and the guy that he appointed is going to lower rates. So we're looking at a future, a very near future, where we have lower rates, and lower rates is going to create more demand, again, for people that want to buy. I invest in apartments now, look, if you wait another year, I still think it's going to be a good time, but I think we have a better time right now.   Keith Weinhold  30:10   I sold one apartment building in 2022 for about $1 million and I sold another one of my apartment buildings in 2023 for about $1 million I had bought those in 2013 with 10 year balloon loans, so I was enjoying that nice fixed rate as late and as long as I could, until 2022, nine years and 2023, 10 years before the rate went up on me. But of course, my new buyer had to pay that rate, so it limited the amount that they could offer for it. However, to your point about investing for a long time horizon, I still had profits on those nine and 10 year holds, but yeah, to your point, Brad about the looser lending, this is huge. I read a summary of the latest national Multifamily Housing Council meeting, and one of the biggest takeaways that came out of that meeting is that there is abundant debt available. It's in increasingly attractive terms. And a lot of people think about mortgages, and they just think about the rates, and you should that's certainly important, but they don't think as much about the propensity for others to lend. How loose, or how tight are those standards? They're loose, yeah.   Brad Sumrok  31:25   And, I mean, look, the first deal I did in 2002 the interest rate was 6.35% the rates right now are less than that, you know, as of the date of this recording. So, you know, I always talk about a base case of a $10 million deal. It may seem large to you or to people listening, but like in my world of syndication, where we're not just looking at the real estate piece, but learning how to raise money to buy real estate so we could have a bigger property that's professionally managed and become a true business owner like Robert Kiyosaki talks about, do you want to be self employed? I tell my students, buy a six Plex. Do you want to own an apartment business by 60 units and hire a management company? So when I'm talking about this $10 million deal, you know, you can get a $7 million loan right now for probably in the mid 5% and it would be non recourse, and you could probably get three years of interest only, meaning for the first three years, you're going to have a higher cash flow. So like, this is a really good loan compared to 2021 when we could get 3% debt. It's not but remember that 3% loan was a short term loan. You know, it wasn't a 10 year fixed rate loan, it was a short term loan, and we all saw what happened with that when they raised rates so many times in such a short period. So the fixed rate debt is very competitive based on, like, the long term, 20 year average, and it's lower than it was when I started.   Keith Weinhold  32:55   Well, we've been talking about elements of your apartment market forecast, and of course, that's going to inform your Buy Box. Brad, you mentor students constantly and oftentimes we think about a Buy Box. We think about then in terms of geographic market, but as we look for an opportunity, we also might think about some other things in your Buy Box, for example, new build versus vintage build. So with all of this traveling you do, and you're in the markets, and you're informing students, and you're looking at students prospective deals as well. But tell us more about what a good buy box is for the near term in apartment buildings.   Brad Sumrok  33:36   Yeah. So look like what is in the buy box, right? So one is going to be your location. And so, you know, how do I select a good location? Just some tips and strategies around that is, I look for landlord and business friendly environments. In other words, if the tenant doesn't pay, do they get to stay or not, you know, so I like to be in market so that they don't pay, that we could legally, you know, not have them consume our product for a long period of time. So I also look at things like job growth and population growth, affordability gap. New supply is a percentage of inventory, you know, the new supply coming online in a diversified economy. So, like, you want to get your geographies nailed down. Like, where you buy matters, like, there's no substitute to I would rather pay more for a property in a location that meets that criteria than less for a property that doesn't. Yeah. So geography is important. You want to pick your property size, like, how many units, or what's the price point. Okay? And this is huge, because if you're gonna buy your own deal with your own money, which is another reason I prefer syndication. Let's say you have pick a number, 100,000 to invest. Like you can only buy a $300,000 property, two units somewhere, three units somewhere, you know. Or zero units somewhere, right, right? So if you have expanded your you know, your mind and your skill set to do a syndication 100,000 doesn't limit you to your own money, you know. And then I would say, Well, what is a great size for a first time syndicator is I would target somewhere around 60 to 80 units, and at 100,000 a unit, which is a ballpark price for maybe a nice B class property or high C Class property, and a market that meets the criteria that I outlined earlier. You know, you're looking at, say, a six to $8 million property. And so what you could do from there, Keith is, you could say, Okay, well, you know, this is why, like in my educational course, I use a $10 million property, because the numbers are easy. But even just say, Well, I'm going to do an $8 million property, you'd say, Okay, I need two to 3 million down, depending on the debt, right? And then I'm going to get a the balance in a loan, you know, because you could get a 70 to 75% loan. So then you ask, Well, where am I going to get to 2 million, right? If I have 100 I need $1.9 million and so then you got to start thinking about like, do I have access to people or work or in the neighborhood or at the community or at the church, you know, or do I go to masterminds and conferences and meetup groups like, where I saw you Keith last month, like, there's a lot of investors there with a lot of money, right? And some of them are looking to be passive investors. And so, you know, there's a whole nother conversation around, you know, raising capital. And if you can't raise capital, then you may want to bring in some people on your GP team that could help you raise capital, as long as you're following, like the SEC compliance and again, that's another discussion. That's the importance of having the buy box so you have your geography, your property size, your property class. You know, again, if you just want the new construction stuff. There's some people out there, like big name, famous people, that are highlighting their 800 unit a class deals that they're buying. And of course, like you or I that are just getting started, can't go buy that deal. And so why? You know the institutions are going after the large A class properties in the best areas. And so where I've made my niche Keith, and what I would recommend most people start is start with the older vintage properties, start with the 1970s properties, and then maybe work your way up to the 1980s and 1990s properties. And why is this is because the institutions don't want those properties, and they're still able to be professionally managed. Like, if you go and buy 100 unit C Class property, as long as it's not in a bad neighborhood with, like, high crime or whatever like that. Like, these are very honest, hard working, working class people that need a clean, safe and functional place to live, and you'll be able to get better returns on a C or A B class, also known as like the cap rate. And again, that's another discussion, but you'll be able to get a better return on an older vintage property than you would on a vintage property. And you're not competing with the institutions, but you're also not competing with the mom and pops, because the mom and pops are going to take that 100,000 they have and go buy a duplex. You know, they're not going to want to syndicate a deal. They're not going to want to have partners. They're not going to want to deal with the so called complexities of buying a company. And that's what buying an apartment community is, Keith, it's buying a company. You're buying a business that has an income stream already being generated those customers, they're called residents. They're called tenants, you know, but if you just go upstream from buying real estate or buying an apartment building, we're buying a cash flow producing business that's existing, that's in place, and then our job is to figure out how to run it better and more efficiently. You the   Keith Weinhold  39:04   You the listener, you might have access to, say, 500k in equity that's sitting in your existing properties. And some of these numbers that Brad and I are throwing around are rather large, $10 billion but one of the biggest epiphanies that I think your students have is that doesn't need to be much of your own money. We're talking about what's called the capital stack to take down a $10 million apartment building. Maybe you borrow seven and a half million of that. Maybe you raise 2 million of that from your other investors in the syndication, and then you put your 500k into the deal, and there you have $10 million in order to make that purchase. But yes, that does involve a learning curve and the SEC rules and all that. But the big takeaway here is you don't need much of your own money. You can leverage other people's money, even for the down payment. And Brad, you're also an expert at showing people how to pay almost. Zero tax, which is another discussion unto itself, but some of your students start with zero experience, and within a few short years, I mean, you've had hundreds of people that have either retired early or increased their net worth by over a million dollars. A lot of success stories,   Brad Sumrok  40:17   yeah, look, I mean, I started with no previous real estate investing experience. My experience was going to college, studying hard, getting decent grades, becoming an engineer, you know, being fired once, being laid off once, and reading Robert Kiyosaki books that motivated me to to go out and seek specialized education. And I think it was Jim Rohn that said formal education, like degree could get you a job, and specialized education like you can get in a conference or a mastermind or a mentorship program. And that's also how I started. I went to a weekend workshop back in 2001 and I bought the mentorship program. And boy, I'm glad I did, because, you know, that's how I got into my first 62 units. So you don't need to have experience. What you need to have is a powerful reason, a powerful why? Why do I want to be financially free? Like apartments is just a vehicle. I didn't choose apartments because I love departments. I choose departments because they cash flow, they go up in value, and you have amazing depreciation benefits.   Keith Weinhold  41:23   Yeah, I'm the same. I don't love apartments in a way. I don't love real estate. I love what these things do for me    Brad Sumrok  41:30   exactly. Yeah? So, like, you don't have to have experience. In the other category, of people that have come into my community that don't have apartment experience, a lot of them have real estate experience, Keith, that are doing, like, single family homes, short term rentals, or maybe smaller, multi unit deals. And they listen to a show like this, and they're like, huh, I want to transition from doing these smaller types of assets with my own money and self managing to scaling into a syndication.   Keith Weinhold  42:03   Brad has taken countless people from get rich education to got rich education. His core values are faith, finance, fitness, family and fulfillment. He is committed to helping people experience not just financial success, but personal fulfillment, purpose, contribution, freedom and Brad and his investor community have contributed over $1 million to charity. Is really the person you want to learn from if you want to think about going bigger with multifamily apartment buildings. This has been great, Brad. Let our audience know how they can connect with you and learn more?   Brad Sumrok  42:42   Yeah, sure. So I would say this is where I should just be very clear here, okay, but I'm gonna give a couple options, because that's what I'm so of course, there's a website which is my first and last name.com, B, R, A, D, S, U, M, R, O, k, for those of you on social media, I respond to my own social so you'll find me again. B, R, A, D, S, U, M, R, O, K, on LinkedIn, Instagram and Facebook.   Keith Weinhold  43:13   Brad, it's been so valuable. It seems like American apartment buildings are in for redemption story here. It's been great having you back on the show.   Keith Weinhold  43:29   Brad and I both emphasize physical fitness, and we chatted about that a good bit when we were together last month. I think he looks better than me. To summarize, the reasons for this historic collapse in apartment building values. It was the combination of soaring interest rates, massive inflation, spiking insurance costs, construction soared, and it created an oversupply, and that oversupply still is not absorbed. In fact, according to the outlet apartment list, the National multifamily vacancy rate recently hit 7.2% that's the highest in the history of the index, which dates back to 2017 and that's chiefly due to apartment oversupply. Have apartments really hit the bottom? Brad just said, we're at or near the bottom, and it's a good time to be gearing up as far as what's coming. To give you an idea of new apartment supply, what takes about two years from construction start to completion. And now you can't just have all US apartment construction come to a complete stop. You have to keep people working. And there are almost 400 MSAs in the United States, so you couldn't coordinate a complete ceasing of construction across every area. So how about the level of new construction starts in apartment units today, and the way that HUD counts it is the number of units started in buildings of five plus units the recent peak. Was about 600,000 annually in 2023 and today it's closer to 400,000 there it is that slowing pace of new apartment construction. If you jump into multifam, be careful of properties with deferred maintenance, because understand that you have a lot of underfunded owners Now Brad can tell you specifically what to look out for his rat race to retirement event is March 28 and 29th in Dallas. It's a two day hands on workshop. You'll learn how to find apartment deals, how to underwrite deals, how to raise capital management and your exit. Discover how you can retire in five years or less by owning apartments again. His website is Brad sumrock.com    Keith Weinhold  45:49   coming up on future episodes here on the get rich education podcast. We're about to go on a run. The next stretch of GRE is loaded. We've got fresh topics with some game changing monolog content that I'm going to share with you new guests, distinguished experts, we're going to break down an innovative way to sell properties that could completely change how you think about your exit strategy of the 50 US states. I'm going to discuss some awful states to invest in, including ones with population loss. On another episode, a distinguished subject matter expert and I are going to dive deep on does America really have a housing shortage, not in apartments which are oversupplied, but is there a shortage in the one to four unit space? That's our topic, because you probably heard contradictory information in the media about whether there's a shortage or not, and then some outlets say there's a housing shortage of 2 million units. Others, 10 million. They're all over the place. We're going to sort it out on an upcoming episode. Does America really have a housing shortage? Then the youngest guest to ever appear on the show will be with us. He's a 19 year old college student that has a real estate investing related major, and since last year, he and I have befriended each other. He was born in about 2006 so it'll be interesting to see how he views the investing world and what they teach him about real estate investing in college today, he is probably the most impressive teenager that I've ever met in my life. Then six weeks from now, we will have an epic get rich education podcast episode 600 on a subject as paradoxical and complete with a GRE contrarianism That builds real wealth, debt is the American dream will be episode 600 if you're serious about building wealth, be sure to follow or subscribe to the show. We are going on a run. If you know someone in your life who needs to think differently. If you know one investor who's still waiting for perfect conditions. This will help them tap the Share button and tell them about the show until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your daydream.   Unknown Speaker  48:14   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  48:42   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com  

Register here to attend the live virtual event "Why Central Florida is the Year's Most Compelling Housing Market" on Thursday, February 19th at 8pm Eastern. Keith explores how a shift in mindset can change the way you build wealth, why so many new landlords are entering the market, and what recent economic trends could mean for future rents.  You'll also hear how one Florida investor is navigating a changing housing landscape, and learn about a timely opportunity in one of the country's fastest‑growing real estate markets—all without needing to be a hands-on landlord. Resources: Register for the event at GREwebinars.com Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/593 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the risk of delayed gratification is denied gratification. There's a new wave of landlords. Wages are rising faster than both inflation and home prices. Learn what that's going to mean for rents. Hear the voices of five different Federal Reserve chairs, then GRE announces our biggest event of the year, and you're invited today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:32   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:16   mid south home buyers, with over two decades is the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated, there is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com   Corey Coates  2:19   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:35   Welcome to GRE from the Adriatic Sea to the Atlantic Ocean and across 188 nations worldwide, I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. Sometimes we all need a mindset reset, and this can include me. Sometimes. James clear, the author of atomic habits, says there are four types of wealth, financial wealth, which is money, social wealth, which is status, time, wealth which is freedom, and physical wealth, which is health. Be wary of jobs that seduce you with one and two but rob you of three and four. That is to say, be careful with jobs that seduce you with financial and social wealth but rob you of time and physical wealth that is definitely going to happen to you during your life, especially early in your working career. But many people, even most people, they don't do much about this. They just go on and on, selling their soul to their employer for decades. Sometimes paychecks aren't compensation. They're a bribe from an employer to give up your dreams early in your career, delayed gratification actually makes some sense, because you need capital formation, you need down payments, you need dry powder. That is totally fair and the time in your life for delayed gratification. But there's a point that most people miss, the point where delayed gratification quietly mutates into denied gratification. This is huge. Most people miss this inflection point. When is this point in your life? That's when I'll do it later becomes, well, I guess I never did it at all. They look up at what they've got at age 65 and realize that they have a respectable title. They still wear Dockers pants. They have a 401, K that they must start paying tax on, and knees that creak louder than. The front door. Compound Interest hardly outpaces taxes and inflation. That's just going to keep you in one spot, you know, and you're never going to get that time back. There is no do over there. So you need to get to the point where you can be more frugal with your time than your money. Younger people have a harder time adopting this mindset, and that's a little natural, because they have more time and less money. Sooner than later, you must desperately get financially free so that you can simply be your self workaholics, optimize income instead of assets, and you can't let that happen, because labor does not compound and capital does compound, your quality of life will exceed your cost of living when your life is funded by what you own, not by what you do that takes a different mindset. You can either be a conformer or you can build wealth when you invest in real estate that pays five ways. It's like what you're doing is buying future Tuesdays, where you never have to work again and then later, add on future Wednesdays, where you never have to work again because you got the compound leverage instead of the impotent compound interest. I mean, just consider your two and a half million dollar portfolio that is passively doing the same work as someone who sells 40 to 50 hours a week of their life away for 100k in yearly salary. All right, maybe you're thinking, Oh, that all sounds thought provoking, but if you're not engaged on that, it can sound airy and philosophical and even risky. It's sort of like, yeah, you're cueing the acoustic guitar music and slow motion images of someone pensively gazing at a sunset.   Keith Weinhold  7:12   All right, what is the concrete plan? It's not all about mindset. It only starts with mindset. You got to make that actionable. Well, we constantly provide concrete plans for you here on this show, and I've got another concrete plan for you toward the end of the show today. This harkens back to what I discussed with you seven weeks ago, seven episodes ago on the show. That's when I discussed the world's first billionaire, John D Rockefeller and his enduring quote from about 100 years ago, he who works all day has no time to make money. Yeah, that's the quote a little review. What you learned seven episodes ago is that Rockefeller meant, if you spend your life doing tasks, you're never going to rise high enough to own things that pay you for life. The bottom line here is that earning a living is a distinctly different activity than building wealth. That's what we're talking about here.    Keith Weinhold  8:14   Well, there is a new wave of landlords entering the market, and they are reshaping what owning rentals looks like. One survey by rental platform avail of nearly 2000 users. It's really influential. It found that 53% of landlords became landlords in the last five years. So you have a lot of new landlords with the most 17% of landlords entering the market in just the last year, most purchased a property specifically to rent it out, and 1/3 sort of backed into this business by renting out their former residence. Of course, some people want to rent out their former residence today, if they got locked into that sexy owner occupied three and 4% financing from 2022 and earlier, the survey went on to tell us with some really good takeaways here, 72% of landlords manage between one and four units, and this avail survey. I mean, it's just another one that shows that the majority of landlords operate small portfolios, classic mom and pop investors. That one's not too surprising. The top three reasons that landlords gave for entering the rental market, they're pretty interesting. The number one reason for getting into this at 41% of respondents is building long term wealth. Next 33% for generating passive income, and the third most popular one, it's a distant third, it is preparing for retirement at 13% so building long term wealth is the number one reason for getting into this, and that is the right reason. Them when it comes to ownership structure, 64% said that they own the property individually, whether that's through a single member LLC or in their own name, doing it, yeah, individually, rather than with a family member or a business partner. So really, the summary of this terrific, recent avail landlord survey is that if you're just getting started, you're not alone. A lot of people are most own properties solely in their own name, and the number one reason for doing it is to build long term wealth. Now there's another pervasive set of economic trends out there in the broader economy, but it's really a benefit for real estate investors, and that is the fact that wage growth has now outpaced consumer price growth for three years. Yeah, another way to say that is that wage growth has outpaced inflation for fully three years. Yeah, most people just aren't feeling it yet. So you might be taken somewhat aback by that, and why aren't people feeling that wage growth is faster than inflation, the pandemic inflation spike that was so huge, it was like getting hit with a freight train, and then someone tells you, good news, the train has stopped. Yeah, that's nice. You are still lying on the tracks, rubbing your ribs. That's because we're all still absorbing spiked prices for everything from a lumber two by four to a York Peppermint Patty, year over year, wages are up 3.8% and consumer inflation is 3% All right, so wages above inflation, that means things are getting a little more affordable, but both wages and inflation have grown faster than home prices, which have only grown about one and a half percent, and this is all per the BLS in the FHFA, so wage growth Being more than double home price growth. Well, that trend really makes properties more affordable, but historically, they're still not that affordable. Everybody knows that home prices soared until about 2023 that was the turning point, and now wages are in their catch up phase. All right, but what really matters to real estate investors is, when will this wage growth translate to rent growth, historically, big rent growth that lags big home price growth by about two to four years. So you have the big home price growth, big rent growth hits two to four years later, historically. Now, if that holds true, we should finally see substantial rent growth this year or next year. Rent growth has still been pretty soft in the one to four unit space, and even there are rent decreases in the overbuilt apartment space. Future income growth promises to make homes more affordable. Affordability has already improved, with mortgage rates hovering near three year lows. There's one problem, though, that most people overlook, and that is this wage growth has been skewed toward the higher income deciles, renters, especially workforce renters, they don't feel it until later. So this 3.8% wage growth, it's heavier for higher income people, and it's lighter for lower income people. I swear, when there are enriching economic trends, it always hits the higher income people first, and it doesn't trickle down until later. So if you as an investor, are positioned before the rent wave hits, you are surfing, and if you wait to feel it, you're swimming behind the boat. Higher wages should translate to higher rents in the next one to two years. And as far as some other forces, as we all know, the man occupying the oval office in the White House, the President, he wants lower rates. The current Fed Chair isn't so willing to do that. The next one, the one he appointed, Kevin Warsh, who arrives in May. He seems more receptive to lower rates, but it's gonna take a while. It all moves so slow. We have had 16 fed chairs before worsh over 112 years. And look how much of an econ nerd Are you? Are you as bad as me? These voices are in chronological order, and I can name each speaker.   Corey Coates  14:47   You're going to have to live with the fact that forecasts have a range of uncertainty, irrational exuberance.   Corey Coates  14:54   In my opening remarks, I'd like to briefly first review today's policy decision, but   Corey Coates  14:58   first I'll review recent. Economic developments in the Outlook, and we are well positioned to wait to see how the economy evolves.   Keith Weinhold  15:06   If you can name each of those speakers, I would love to give you a free property from gremarketplace.com but I can't quite swing that in order. Those voices are Paul Volcker. He served from 1979 to 87 he was known for crushing double digit inflation by jacking rates to near 20% it was painful medicine, but it worked the next one. Alan Greenspan sir, from 1987 to 2006 that was a long reign, almost 20 years. He oversaw the 90s economic boom, the.com bubble and the early housing bubble. Years so far, Greenspan is the only Fed chair that I have met in person. Then Ben Bernanke, he was the Fed chair from 2006 to 2014 he took the helm right before the 2008 financial crisis. He rolled out QE and emergency lending on an historic scale. In fact, he was nicknamed helicopter Ben because it's like he would print so much money that he just dropped it out of huge sacks, dollar bills in huge sacks, dropping them from an airplane, metaphorically, not literally. Then Janet Yellen, 2014 to 2018 she kind of continued this post crisis normalization, and she was the first woman to chair the Fed and then, of course, Jerome Powell serving from 2018 to 2026 he navigated the covid stimulus, ultra low rates. And then after that, the fastest rate hiking cycle in decades to fight inflation back in 2022 being the Fed chair is the most important job in this economy, and over the decades, there's been more of a movement of the fed into the public eye. You just hear about them more in the media than you used to. But like I touched on last week, it just still doesn't mean as much to real estate investors as a lot of people think, people sometimes look for someone else to come save them, but it's more about you and the choices that you make that's what means more housing supply and demand means more real estate investors have profited during every one of those Fed Chair reigns, which go back almost 50 years from Volcker to today, I think everybody knows that fed chairs don't control property prices, and they don't even control long term interest rates. What's a little paradoxical is that Trump has been vocal about how he wants more affordable home prices, yet at the same time he wants existing homeowners to have their home prices go up, those two things seem to be in tension. They're in conflict with each other. The only way you can possibly get both are through lower mortgage rates. But is he going to see later today you as a GRE follower, you don't have to wait for lower rates income, property still feels less affordable than it did five years ago, because it is that's real but here's the key distinction in what makes real estate investors different from owner occupied homeowners. Affordability isn't about the price of the property, it's about whether the property pays for itself and grows your net worth while inflation does the heavy lifting. Higher prices don't kill investors. Inaction during inflation does you're not buying a say, $350,000 property. You're controlling it with $70,000 while your tenant and inflation do the rest. We do not rely on hope or appreciation. We start with income tax benefits and debt pay down and then leverage appreciation typically happens as well. GRE only succeeds when investors close on properties that perform long term. One bad referral costs us years of trust, so we don't do that. The best question for you really isn't whether property is affordable. The question is whether owning an investment property is better than inflation compounding against you. That's the investor lens today.    Keith Weinhold  19:24   coming up next week on the show here, we're going to discuss apartments. It's been a truly be leaguered sector, where their prices have fallen 2030, and 40% in many markets. We've discussed apartments here on the show a lot before, like with Grant Cardone on episode 264, with Ken McElroy, countless times with me monologuing about apartments. And next week, we're going to talk to a multifamily educator who is known as the apartment King. Later on, a future show, we've got the return of the financial. Firebrand, and lately, the financial comedian Garrett Gunderson, a powerful speaker. That's definitely going to be interesting. As for today, you'll hear a first person account from a Florida resident about why he's moved to Florida and why he invests there. You've heard of this guy before. That's next. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 593, of get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  20:26   Flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem property or your whole portfolio, through a 721, exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE. That's f, l, O, C, K, homes.com/G. R, E,    Keith Weinhold  21:02   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products. They've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach directly again. 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  22:13   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Zack Lemaster  22:47   this is rental retirement Zach Lee Masters. Listen to get rich education with Keith bleinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  23:02   I'd like to welcome in our own in house. GRE investment coach, we haven't had you on the show since November. Welcome in Naresh.   Naresh Vissa  23:11   Kwith, It's a pleasure to be back on the show. Thanks for having me on.   Keith Weinhold  23:16   We're just playing it all casual and comfortable here in house. You were just finishing up, what ice cream or a container of something right before we got started   Naresh Vissa  23:25   here, all done with the ice cream and ready to record the podcast.   Keith Weinhold  23:29   Yeah, all right, keeping cool for our chat. Well, you know you do live in Florida, so you must have your own perspective on the Florida market. You live in the Tampa area, and the reason that that's a germane topic is that's something we've been talking about here lately as really an opportunity, and that is because most of Florida has seen some temporary property price attrition, but yet more population growth is projected. So that's why we feel like that's temporary. But why don't you tell us about what you see on the ground there?   Naresh Vissa  24:07   Keith, I've lived in Florida for 11 and a half years now. That's Tampa, Florida. I like Florida a lot. I moved here December 2014 for similar reasons that many people are moving here today. So I moved to Florida in December 2014 because of no state income tax, because of, at the time, lower cost of living. Florida was one of the states I got hit the hardest during the 2008 financial crisis, or nothing called in a real estate crisis, Florida, Arizona, those few others got hit really, really hard. So Florida at that time was still rebounding from 2008 so I moved for the affordability, the no income tax, of course, the weather better. Weather. And then most places in the Northeast I've lived so weather is a big deal when it comes to real estate and geography as well. These are all different reasons to move to Florida, and these are the reasons why I moved to Florida. I was also single in my 20s, so I was much younger at the time. I was single in my mid 20s, and Florida is very good for that too. For 20 something Gen Z folks today, Florida is definitely a place that they should consider. I moved down here and I fell in love with it. From day one. I got a place living right on the water, a beach. Got beaches everywhere. Florida's tour. And I say all this because these are all enticing features of Florida, for renters, for tenants, for snowbirds. I had never even heard of what a snowbird was until I moved down to Florida, where you have people who literally live here for seven months of the year, and then they live in their home state for five months of the year. So that's generally what it is, seven months in Florida, five months in their home state, which can be the people I know personally are from New York, Connecticut, Illinois, Ohio. The list goes on and on. Basically anywhere that's north of Florida could be considered a snowbird area. So that's another reason why Florida is a very hot market. Now, obviously, during the pandemic, in end of 2020, people started moving to Florida in droves. Part of it was politically, because you didn't have the restrictions that other states had during that crazy time that we lived through. And another part of it was work from home. So similar to me, in 2014 when I became full time work from home, I wanted to move somewhere for all those different reasons that I gave you the total package, and Florida fit that there was maybe one other state that fit the bill, based on everything that I told you, probably one other state. That's it. So Florida fit the bill, and that's why I think Florida is always going to be despite the hurricane prep, Florida is always going to be a destination that people will seriously look at whether you're older, retirement age or younger. Like I said in my mid 20s, single guy Florida is always going to be that destination for all the reasons that I laid out. So with that being said, what does that mean for real estate? What that means for real estate is that there's going to be a constant supply of people coming into Florida, and when there's a constant supply of people coming into Florida, then you can expect real estate prices to at least not decline. We passed, you know, all sorts of bills, including Dodd Frank post 2008 to prevent people from taking out mortgages that they couldn't afford. So now that that's out of the way, when you have a constant supply of people who are able to afford homes, who are able to afford rents, well, that's going to be a constant supply. So that's good for investors, that's good for appreciation. It's good for cash flow. And that's why I'm a huge fan, not just of the state of Florida, but also investing in Florida. And I own real estate in Florida, and you can say that I lucked out, but I bought a property in 2019 and it nearly doubled in value, yeah, when I say doubled in value in a matter of I want to say, like, two years, two and a half years, it nearly doubled in value. So with that being said, Florida, this was a rare cyclical trend when we just saw this huge upswing, rare cyclical trend. But I don't anticipate cycles like this, where you're going to have booms and busts. Moving forward, we haven't seen a bus since 2008 like I said, the the law has been taken care of in that sense, the regulation. I love the state. I've lived in six major cities, but maybe five different states, and Florida is hands down my favorite. That's why I've lived here for what did I say? 11 and a half or 12 and a half years? I don't even remember anymore. It's actually 11 and a half. My roots are here. I now consider myself a Florida person, even more so than the state of Texas, where, which is where I spent 18 years. I have no doubt that I'll surpass 18 or 19 years in Florida, and that this is it, right here. And a major reason is because this is just such a great state. It's free, it's real estate friendly. This is for people who are looking at buying primary residences, not for investment properties. But the governor has put on the ballot this coming election cycle to remove, to abolish the property tax in the state of Florida. So if you own, if you live full time, not a snowbird, not investors, but if you live in Florida permanently, then no more property tax if the vote passes. So that's another huge plus for owning property if you're a permanent resident in Florida,   Keith Weinhold  29:57   yeah, even if the property tax is abolished. Which seems unlikely, you could just tell what the tenor and the temperature of the tax climate and the investing climate is like in Florida, if they're even spearheading such a proposal, and they're a national leader in something like property tax abolition, like they are and Naresh about eight years after you moved there, which would be, what about 2020? 2022, somewhere in there, we had that strong pandemic migration push into Florida. What's happened is that that flow has slowed down. There's still positive net in migration in there in Florida. But the builders, they got ahead of this, and the pandemic migration wave waned, and they had a temporarily overbuilt condition, and they still do now, which is one reason why we've seen prices fall somewhat in most Florida zip codes, and this spells part of the opportunity. So you do have all these new build properties, some of which are vacant, but you have a good chance they're going to get absorbed pretty soon. And there are some obvious advantages to owning new build.   Naresh Vissa  31:11   Well, Keith, there is brand new construction in Florida, like you said. The work started in 2021 and there are homes that have not been sold. I don't want to say, since they were finished building in 2021 they recently finished building in 2025 and these homes could be a variety of reasons. It could be economic related. It could be hurricane related. In Tampa, the Central Florida, we had two horrible hurricanes back to back within a 15 day period, two really bad hurricanes towards the end of 2024 September and October 2024 and people lost their homes. Renters lost their homes. Other people just were freaked out and scared and said, You know what? I don't want to deal with. I've got PTSD from these hurricanes. I'm moving up to Alabama or Georgia or Orlando, you know, somewhere in Central Florida, that's a way. But even that area, you know, the hurricane still made it through to those areas too. People just picked up and said, You know what I'm done with Florida. It's a great state, but I don't want to deal with these hurricanes. And so regardless, whatever the reason, this is a pie, and these are all slices of the pie, I don't know what's been more of a contributing factor than which one has been more than the others. But with that being said, there are tons of properties in Florida, pretty much the entire state of Florida, where, especially new construction properties, are below at the time when they were being built, they're below what they anticipated being listed as. And So Keith, we're having a special webinar this Thursday, talking about these properties because they are discounted properties. They are properties that are selling at tremendous discounts, like I said to when Ground was broken years ago. So join that webinar. Gre, webinars.com gre webinars.com. Again, brand new construction. Many of these properties already have tenants in place. Not all of them, but many of them do already have tenants in place. There are all sorts of incentives that the builder is offering. And there are many builders in that, not just this one that's going to be on the webinar, but in Florida, there are many builders who are offering discounts, rate, buy downs, other incentives, because the home values have fallen somewhat a bit. Why have the home values falling? Because the demand has fallen as well. So again, the next question people might have is, well, if the demand is falling, if home home values are falling, why would I buy the trend is downward. And the answer is, whether it's a stock or any other security, you don't necessarily want to have the FOMO to buy at an all time high, just because everyone else is buying it. And I actually have family members who bought real estate at the peak of 2022 there was FOMO and there was, hey, you know, I need to get a flip, and they're down. They bought peak 2022, and they're down today. Because, look, you can pick any housing market in the country, especially a prime state like Florida. Look at any 30 year period, and you will see that home values are up double digits, even if you look at 2009 when the housing market crashed and we reached something like 10 year bottom in housing, if you look at the 30 year period, well, if someone who bought a house in Florida in, say, 1979 was still way up on their property in 2009 30 years later, we're not buying Bitcoin here where it can go up 30% in one day or go down 30% in one day. We're talking real estate, and real estate has been proven. It's been tested. It's been proven throughout time, not even a 30 year period. I think if you take any 20 year period, you're going to see the same trend of double digit gains, double digit growth. On real estate appreciation. So I'd say, if you're skeptical about Florida, you see these home values, all these discounts, that's the first thing I hear from followers. They say, why are they offering so many discounts? I'm a little concerned about all these discounts and incentives, and I don't know if that's a good thing. Well, I say, Well, I mean, you can buy full price in another state, if you'd like, you know, in California or so you could, you're more than free to buy full price. But we're talking Florida here. We're not talking about West Virginia or Rhode Island, or, you know, Nebraska. We're talking Florida. This is still the land of Mickey Mouse and Minnie Mouse, this is the land of the best beaches in the country. I mean, they there's just no arguing or debating these facts. Florida all the reasons that I stated earlier, is going to continue to be a hot, hot market. So I highly recommend people, if you want to get in on these discounted deals, G R E, webinars.com G R E, webinars.com register for our upcoming online and live special event this Thursday evening at 8pm Eastern Time, 8pm Eastern Time, gre webinars.com you won't want to miss this free, online and live special event.   Keith Weinhold  36:25   When a pound of oranges is on sale or a pound of zucchini is on sale, consumers are often attracted to that sale. Should probably be the same way with you considering adding to your real estate portfolio, and it's funny, when oranges of zucchinis are on sale, no one tries to find fault with it and think that they're rotten inside or something like that. But somehow with real estate or an investment that tends to get scrutiny from people, but these are real discounts that you're getting over buying, say, two years ago, and we're talking about a motivated seller here. And as you know, Naresh, we had the builder on the show last week, the one that's going to be co hosting the webinar with you on Thursday, and he talked to us about buying down mortgage rates to between 3.75% and 4.25% and we're here at a time where the owner occupied rate is six to six and a quarter the investor rate is seven, so you're getting about a three percentage point buy down. That's really the attraction. And Naresh, before I ask you, if you have any last thoughts, yes, again, it is our live event that you can attend from the comfort of your own home, Thursday the 19th, at 8pm eastern in just a few days, here with Naresh and the builder who you heard on last week's show, co hosting a live webinar for Central Florida so inland new build income property. It's free. You're invited, and the benefit of you attending live is that you can have any of your questions answered in real time. You're going to learn more about the Central Florida market and more about the home building process, and you are going to be able to see available new bill property, real addresses, with some of these pretty grand incentives that we've talked about again. GRE webinars.com, any last thoughts? Naresh   Naresh Vissa  38:17   I get a lot of questions about is right now the time to buy? Should I buy later? What's going to happen with real estate? And I know the number one question, or the number one caution our followers are going to have, is, is right now the time is March or April, the time. And I say, look, with real estate, I already gave you the figure that you take any 20 year time period, any 30 year time period, and that's our time horizon here at GRE again, we're not trying to buy bitcoin here and flip it, you know, two days later, we're looking to buy and hold for, I don't want to say forever, but I know my time horizon in general is the full 30 year term, at least for my properties, and some people you know, want 10 or 15 years. That's fine too, but that's the time horizon. It is not one year, two years. We're not flipping new construction properties here in Central Florida. We are looking to buy and hold over the long haul, get some very good, high quality tenants in there, in these new construction properties, so that you, the GRE follower and the investor, can collect your monthly cash flow as well as over that 20 year period, or that 30 year period take part in appreciation as well. We've also talked extensively, Keith in previous episodes about interest rate cuts that the Federal Reserve is going to be doing, and just know this, there's a reason why the builder is offering these incentives where you can get the rates so low, your mortgage rate can be so low, and it's going to take at least a year, even if the Fed goes to zero. I mean, it's going to take mortgage rates a very long time. And to reach that point of getting such low interest rates that you just laid out, so that even makes it more enticing, like, Hey, I basically have a head start on the Federal Reserve because I follow the Fed pretty closely. We don't need to get into those details, but it's looking heavily like they are going to be start cutting again later this year, this summer. So it's looking like they're going to do that, but again, now you can have a head start, because when the Fed starts doing that, and when the mortgage rates fall, then everybody's going to jump in. And what's going to happen to the home values once everybody jumps in, well, they're going to go up. You want to jump in when everybody is not jumping in, and when you can get an amazing deal on these interest rates thanks to the builder buying down your interest rate. So this is a GRE special you can't get these deals. I challenge our followers to go on the internet and try to find better incentives or deals. And what you're going to see on this webinar, on this online, live special event. So gre webinars.com you can join me as well as our special guest. He heads up the builder. His name is Jim. He's going to be on with me. And please join us at grewebinars.com sign up for this free and live online special event.   Keith Weinhold  41:20   These are some great points. There's a lot of anticipation for Thursday, Naresh. We'll see you then.   Naresh Vissa  41:25   Thanks, Keith.   Keith Weinhold  41:32   Oh yeah, a first person account on Florida life and opportunity from our own Naresh nationally, the build to rent model that has been a real success, building single family rentals with the intent that they are rentals. From day one, over 321,000 homes have been built specifically as rentals this way since 2012, and more than three quarters of those in just the last five years. So the build to rent trend is picking up steam. About 1/3 of Americans rent their home, and although the word rental for some people that still conjures up visions of high rises packed with apartments, but a growing number of today's rentals are these freestanding, single family homes and duplexes like we're talking about today, nestled in suburban communities with top notch schools, and that's why a growing number of mom and pop investors have hopped on the build to rent bandwagon. They take less maintenance. It attracts quality tenants who stay longer, and the rentals have changed, but so had the renters. 20 years ago, it felt like tenants had to rent, like they had no choice. Today, you've got more and more tenants that choose to rent. Many of them make 100k to 125k or more. Today, rentals are cheaper than owning for those people, and they're less of a headache. A lot of them don't want to fix things, and you as the owner, don't want to either. That's why new build is attractive. Then, you know, I just sent that great map to our newsletter subscribers about which states saw the most population gain from 2020 to today, the South had more population growth than every other US region combined, which is jaw dropping and within the South, the state with the most population growth since 2020 is Florida, with An 8.9% population gain in that span, narrowly beating out Texas and South Carolina. By the way, even if it weren't for the attractive builder interest rate near 4% these Sunshine State deals could still make sense. New build single family rentals from the 270s new build duplexes, 395 to 420k low insurance rates, positive cash flow, a builder warranty. And it's really even better than that. These properties are centered on Ocala, Florida, which received national recognition as the fastest growing city for this second year in a row. That's according to a U haul report, and Florida is the epitome of investor friendly. Florida is the first state to enact a law allowing law enforcement to immediately remove squatters. It distinguishes them from legal tenants. You might come to the webinar event, perhaps thinking about 80k or 500k that you want to allocate toward property or maybe nothing and you just want to learn at the event you will evaluate realistic opportunities learn how property management is handled, and understand how today's inventory fits into your disciplined, long term strategy that all takes place on. On Thursday the 19th at 8pm Eastern. It's our biggest event of the year, and it is called Why Central Florida is the year's most compelling housing market. One last time for Thursday, it is gre webinars.com, until then, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Unknown Speaker  45:20   You nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  45:52   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building get richeducation.com  

Everyone's got an opinion about money (especially the people with a book deal or a TV show). Some of that advice is useful. Some of it sounds better on a stage than it works in real life. Let's break it down.   Important Links: Website: http://www.yourplanningpros.com Call: 844-707-7381   ----more---- Transcript:  Marc: Everyone has got an opinion about money, especially people pushing a book deal or a TV show. And sometimes maybe that advice is useful and sometimes it's not, it works better on a sound stage than in real life. Let's break it down and have Tony react to some controversial financial takes here on Plan With The Tax Man.   Hey, everybody. Welcome into the podcast. This is Plan With The Tax Man with Tony Mauro, here in Des Moines professional alternative at Tax Doctor, Inc. Hanging out with me to do a little reaction type podcast this week, Tony, we'll get your take on some interesting hot takes from some financial talking heads out there and see what you think about it and practice in the real world. Because you see clients and help people every day and of course are governed and have rules that you have to follow where a lot of these talking heads don't, they can say whatever they want. We'll talk about that a little bit this week.   How are you doing, buddy?   Tony Mauro: I've been doing good. As were taping this, we're getting into our tax season so getting busy with a lot of new tax changes and whatnot that's hitting everybody.   Marc: Yeah, a lot of changes with the OBBBA. You got to be on your toes, right?   Tony Mauro: Mm-hmm.   Marc: And we talked a lot about that on some of the prior podcasts.   Tony Mauro: We did, yeah.   Marc: Yeah. If you guys aren't a little sure about some of those things, make sure you go check those out and you can find us at whatever podcasting app you like, Plan With The Tax Man. Just type that in the search box or just go to yourplanningpros.com. But if you need some help, of course, reach out to Tony as tax season is upon us again at yourplanningpros.com.   All right. My friend, let's dive in and have some fun with these.   Tony Mauro: Sure.   Marc: All right. You're probably familiar, maybe a lot of our listening audience is with Robert Kiyosaki. A number of years back, he wrote Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Really good book, actually. Quite helpful.   Tony Mauro: [inaudible 00:01:51] yes.   Marc: Yeah, quite helpful for a lot of people. But he's since gotten a lot more aggressive and interesting in some of his stances and takes. And again, a lot of that is the demographic I think he's marketing himself to and pushing and things of that nature. But let's talk about this take here more recently. He said people shouldn't work for a company and save in that retirement plan, instead should launch their own startups or maybe buy gold, silver, and Bitcoin, or all of the above. At the time we're talking, Tony, it's early February and gold and silver and Bitcoin, we're doing pretty good last year and earlier into the year this year, but not so great right this minute. At the time we're talking, there was a recent 30% downturn in gold and silver so that didn't age so well.   Tony Mauro: No. And I think it's interesting you pick this one because I have read his books and I think by and large the Rich Dad, Poor Dad, especially the Rich Dad, Poor Dad Cashflow Quadrant are great books for people. And this strikes me because... Don't get me wrong, I like people being in business for themselves. We serve a lot of those businesses.   Marc: Absolutely.   Tony Mauro: And the tax planning and accounting capacity and the financial end as well.   Marc: But I bet they got their own SEPs and things, they've got their own retirement accounts they're doing.   Tony Mauro: We've got them in almost anybody that will listen and take us up on it, whether it's through us or somebody else. Yes, they have their own retirement plan of some kind.   Marc: Yeah. Not saving in a retirement plan just seems crazy, especially if you are working for somebody else, Tony. Because if nothing else, take the free money.   Tony Mauro: It's free money. And that's exactly it, it's free money if you're working for somebody else. I think depending on who he's trying to market this measures to, not everybody is cut out for having a business for themselves. They may be good at it but they don't... A lot of them tend to get themselves into trouble, whether it's tax-wise or lack of planning, lack of cash flow, that kind of thing, let alone the headaches. Again, I love small business. It's my favorite thing so it's somewhere deep in me. I say, I get it. I get what you're saying. Yeah, I think everybody should work for themselves but not...   Marc: Everybody doesn't have the right temperament though.   Tony Mauro: They don't. They don't. They don't have the right temperament. And I definitely think if they're working for themselves or if they're working for a company, they should be in a retirement plan of some kind.   Marc: Yeah. And to just invest in gold, silver, and Bitcoin, come on, that's crazy. Have some if you want but...   Tony Mauro: I agree. That goes against every financial prudent planning aspect that I know of, that's some diversification...   Marc: 150 years?   Tony Mauro: Yeah.   Marc: Right.   Tony Mauro: Like you say, you can have some but I think you've got to have some diversification, you got to have a plan. I'd love to hear what his rationale for that.   Marc: Well, I've watched some shorts and some reels he's had out there recently. And I do think he's targeting the younger generation right now, this kind of mindset of we're not going to work 50 years for somebody and then retire, we want to make all our money in our 20s by being aggressive in technology and this, that, and the other. I think he's pandering a little bit to that crowd. Maybe not. Maybe he's totally on board with it. But it just seems like a big departure from some of his previous stuff.   Tony Mauro: It does. Yeah, it's a real departure from his books.   Marc: Yeah. Anyway, interesting hot take there. Look, if you want some gold and some silver and some Bitcoin, hey, cool. Talk with your advisor about that, make sure being prudent though to Tony's point. Don't get crazy.   We were joking the other day. I was talking with an advisor, Tony. The Dow just hit 50,000 at the end of last week at the time we're taping this for the first time ever, right? And the comment was, "Hey, the Dow hit 50,000." And somebody goes, "Yeah, so did Bitcoin." Of course, it started at 100,000.   Tony Mauro: Right. Right.   Marc: Because it's not had a very good couple of weeks.   Tony Mauro: No. And that just goes to show you the volatility there.   Marc: Massive, yeah.   Tony Mauro: Yeah. Having all your eggs in those three baskets, definitely very aggressive.   Marc: It could be, for sure. Yeah. All right. Let's go to a different take here from Suze Orman, host of Women and Money, recently suggested and this is... If Robert was getting a little crazy and aggressive, Suze is maybe getting a little too conservative. Tell me what you think about this, Tony. She suggests retirees set aside three to five years worth of living expenses. Not six months, right? Not three to five months. Just in case bank accounts crash or stock market crashes, things of that nature. Three to five years, a little too conservative? What do you think?   Tony Mauro: In my opinion, yes. I think that's far, far too conservative because assuming, again, if you're a retiree and you have a diversified portfolio, hopefully if you are in stocks that are high yielding, good quality individual companies. But most people don't have that, they have mutual funds and a variety of things. And even in a market downturn, if you look at 3, 5, 10-year periods, there's not very many that last very long. And if you take it in 10-year periods, there never is over the entire period so that seems very, very conservative.   And who in their right mind is going to take a large chunk of their portfolio and stick it in a 2%, 3% yielding vehicle when they're trying to live off of the income? I don't know where she's coming from with that at all. And again, these people sell a lot of books and whatnot. But keep in mind, I always like to point out that... And they have a lot of followers, they've made a lot of money. But sometimes if you're listening to some of this stuff, you might want to bounce it off your financial advisor as well, just see what they think because I don't agree with that one at all.   Marc: Yeah, it's a little too... And again, if you got... I don't know. I guess if you're worth $100 million, putting aside three years worth of money is a little easier than most folks, right?   Tony Mauro: Right. Right.   Marc: It's three years. I can hardly put side six or eight months, let alone three years worth. And again, interesting takes. And of course, these folks are talking heads out there in the landscape and pushing their books or their programs or things. And while technically, Tony, doing a podcast makes us a talking head, we're a smaller talking head.   Tony Mauro: True.   Marc: But again, you're in the trenches. You're a CPA, a CFP, an EA, you work with clients day in and day out. These folks don't do that so that's a little different there.   Tony Mauro: No. Yeah.   Marc: Kevin O'Leary and his amazing suits, his very colorful, interesting suits he wears. This one might be the most realistic, Tony, of everything on my list today. And this one is still a little bit too much, I think. But what do you think? He insists that if you don't know your net worth at all times, you're being irresponsible with money. He promotes constant tracking, optimization, and performance measurement.   Tony Mauro: Somewhat I agree with him because I do think you need to know your net worth.   Marc: Indeed.   Tony Mauro: Now, at all times and if you don't know it, you're irresponsible.   Marc: Constant?   Tony Mauro: I think that's a little extreme.   Marc: A little much. Yeah.   Tony Mauro: Yeah. But I think the point he's trying to make, if I'm reading it right, is you need to track your spending and what you own and what you owe so you do know your net worth because it is an important number. I wouldn't get so hung up on it day to day because you're just not going to be able to make significant changes to it. I think it's worth looking at with your financial advisor to see where it's headed on a yearly basis for sure. We do it with our clients. Every one of our clients, we go over that net worth. Did we grow it? Did it go backwards and why? And it's good to have that because at the end of the day, a large portion of that net worth is going to be your retirement portfolio, your investments. And so that's going to be what we're focusing on mostly.   But also in that net worth, we see a lot of times where we start to become almost a financial personal coach in that, "Hey, your net worth is not growing because you're spending more than you're making." That kind of thing. I think he has some good points there but I wouldn't focus on it. I would focus more with your advisor on the month to month, the bigger plan, and I think you'd be fine.   Marc: Yeah. And I think a lot of times people do hire a professional, Tony, because they don't want to track it every day and keep an eye on it and it stresses them out. But I think most people, we should know our baseline numbers, we should have a good idea of what's going on, our total net worth, what's coming in, what's going out. You want a good understanding. Even if you do have a financial professional in your pocket helping you out, you still want to have a good... What is it? A 10,000-foot view kind of thing. But I think micromanaging it down to that small of a level, maybe at some point in life. But I think as we get a little older, we're like, "Okay, I need to turn this over to somebody else to handle this because it's too stressful."   Tony Mauro: Right. Agreed.   Marc: All right. I got two more I'm going to do and it would not be complete doing this list without old Dave Ramsey. Dave is not shy and no stranger to controversial takes like cutting up credit cards or paying exclusively in cash. And obviously, Dave has got a huge empire, helps a lot of people, and actually has a lot of good things that do seem to work on the debt side. However, on this side, Tony, this might be a little crazy. He's challenging the rule of thumb, the 4% rule. He's advocating for 8% annual withdrawal for retirees who invest 100% in the market. If over time the S&P 500 yields a 10% rate of return, he says the money should then last you throughout retirement. And while on the surface, that makes sense, 100% in stocks for retirees alone just seems like way more nausea and sleepless nights than most people probably want.   Tony Mauro: I would agree with you. I've read Dave Ramsey's books, I think one of his best is the Total Money Makeover. As far as getting yourself started with planning, I think that's a great book for everybody.   Marc: And the snowball thing works great.   Tony Mauro: It works great. This, I would agree with you too. I don't agree with him at all there. I do like a little bit more aggressive withdrawal percentage than 4%, I like to use 5% with most of my clients unless they're very conservative. But 8% and all in stocks, that would be... I think as a fiduciary, that would just be wrong of us to even assume that unless the client comes and says, "This is what I want. I want nothing else." And it's up to us to say, "Wait a minute, that's too much." Because what he doesn't say here is, yes, over time it yields 10%. I would agree with that but that time period is a long time period. What happens if you've got all of your retirement portfolio, S&P 500 index, let's say, and we have an eight-year prolonged downturn? Will you run out of money? Probably not, but you will have significantly less. And if you're living off the income, well, then you either have to take less or get into the principal.   Marc: And he doesn't really talk about, "Hey, are you willing to cut that back on the down years and things of that nature?" Because adding a little context to that, Tony, to your point, somebody could be listening and go, "Hey, man, the market last year finished at 18%. The year before that, 20 something. The year before that, 20 something. The year before that, 20 something. Making 10 back and only pulling out 8 totally seems doable the last four or five years. Why not?" Sure, you're right. But what about the 10 years where we made nothing? What about a few decades back when there was what? 15 or 18 years where it made nothing, right?   Tony Mauro: Made nothing, right. I remember through 2000 to 2000 almost 10.   Marc: Oh, the lost decade. Yeah.   Tony Mauro: Oh, just a whole decade was gone. Let's say you were following this strategy then and that wouldn't have been too good for you.   Marc: You're pulling 8% out of a million dollars, you're pulling 80 grand out year over year, and it's not making anything back. Again, it's a little too much, I think.   Tony Mauro: I think so too. I think he might be just trying to generate a conversation there but I think he definitely got to put some context to that.   Marc: Yeah, for sure. And again, while technically the numbers technically do make sense, can you sleep at night with that much risk? And it flies in the face of everything for people... And again, the fact that he even mentioned it for retirees is what kind of... If he would have said people in their 30s or 40s, I could have maybe rolled with that. But people in their 60s up, that's a little too crazy.   Tony Mauro: I agree.   Marc: All right. Final one. You might have thought that might have been the wildest take but I'll save this one for last. The world's richest man, Mr. Musk, predicts that advances in AI, energy, and robotics will generate such an abundance of resources, Tony, that all individual retirement savings will become irrelevant in the future. On a recent podcast, he said, "Don't worry about squirreling away money for retirement. In another 10 or 20 years, it won't matter anyway." There's going to be this boom that is going to just bring riches to everyone and the thing is I actually think he believes it. I will give him the credit and the benefit of the doubt saying I think that he thinks these things are true, that he can make these things happen or they're going to happen or whatever. And kudos for feeling about that. But man, there is so many holes I can punch into this. First of all, Tony, what is your thought on will it even generate that sort of money? And then who allocates it? Who doles it out?   Tony Mauro: Well, that's what I was just thinking [inaudible 00:15:10]   Marc: And who do you trust to make sure they don't take it and give it to you?   Tony Mauro: Yeah, this is nirvana. I'm thinking, "Well, boy, if that's the case, sign me up."   Marc: Heck, yeah, sign us all up.   Tony Mauro: [inaudible 00:15:21]   Marc: But the history of human beings have... Is there any company, person, government, anything that you would trust to say, "Oh, send me my universal check every month so I don't have to do anything." I know that's the world keeps thinking we're moving towards that but we have to be on it. Who is going to really trust someone to do that first and foremost, right?   Tony Mauro: I agree. I just think that's... I didn't even know where he's coming from with that. I do think he believes it because I heard...   Marc: I do. I really do. Yeah.   Tony Mauro: But I just don't see how that's possible. Everybody that either... Let's say AI and energy and robotics have taken over everything, those are the people that are going to have... Who create that I would think are going to have the money and I don't know how that's going to be doled out to the rest of the people and why.   Marc: Well, you're talking about what? They've been kicking around that universal income for everyone kind of thing, right?   Tony Mauro: Yeah.   Marc: And if you're having a computer, if you're having AI dole out the money where so therefore humans aren't touching it, therefore it's deemed fair. I guess you could make those arguments. But at some point, it just seems... All right, 20 years from now he's talking. If you're 60 years old right now listening to this and you stop, right? You stop, saying, "You know what? Elon is totally right. He's going to pull this off. This is going to happen. I'm 60. I'm not going to save another dime for retirement for the next 20 years." And 20 years comes by and you're 80 and none of this came to fruition. Well, you're screwed.   Tony Mauro: You're screwed. Yeah, you're in real trouble.   Marc: And he's not on the hook for it.   Tony Mauro: No. I would say to everybody, you keep doing what you're doing, you plan like we're in this world right now.   Marc: Exactly.   Tony Mauro: And if something like this in your lifetime ever comes to happen, well then all the better. But I wouldn't bank anything on something like this.   Marc: And that's where I think the questions and the interesting thing comes into the speculation of investing, right Tony? That's where it comes back to, "Hey, look, if you want to get in crypto, if you want to have some AI properties, if you want to do some of these different things because you believe in this interesting future possibility. Cool, do that. But don't risk the tried and true things that have also worked for 150 years just in case you're wrong because there's you, there's your spouse, there's your heirs to think about." And so I think that's where we... We're in this interesting space where it's like, "I want to take some chances maybe." Or, "I want to be on some cutting edges." But let's still keep it within that speculative portion I guess, Tony, of our finances.   Tony Mauro: Yeah, very small. Very small speculative portion because that's exactly what it is. And you certainly don't want to, just like you said, risk your future on some of the speculation. Because some of it is out there and...   Marc: And it may be possible. It may absolutely be possible but it also may not.   Tony Mauro: It may be possible.   Marc: [inaudible 00:18:16] I'm still waiting on my flying car. I ain't got it yet.   Tony Mauro: I've got a client here locally, tax only, that has... He's the same way. He is invested in some Iraqi Dinari that he keeps saying that it's going to take off, it's going to be... He's been telling me this for 20 years and it's basically worth 3/10 of one cent. You don't want to get into that. I think it was a little flyer for him, I don't even know. But anyway, please consult with advisors before you do any of these kind of things and [inaudible 00:18:53]   Marc: And again, it's easy for the world's richest man to be like, "Well, if it doesn't work, well, whatever."   Tony Mauro: Yeah, whatever.   Marc: Well, he's going to fly off to Mars and not be responsible anyway.   Tony Mauro: That's right.   Marc: But look, good stuff, fun for conversation. And I think that's a piece too, I think as humans, we're always looking to try to move forward and do some things. And of course, sometimes we're trying to sell some stuff. And of course, even in Elon's case, he's trying to promote his robotics and his AI and get people on board. And the more people that are interested and on board, the better the chances of things happening and generating.   You always have to take stuff with a grain of salt and you could simply say, "Well, Mark, you're constantly saying, Hey, call Tony." Yeah, I am. I'm saying call Tony to get a strategy and a plan in place that works for your situation based on the things you've got going on in your life, and also they're backed by years of research and data. And there's no plan that's perfect but having a plan is better than having no plan.   Tony Mauro: That's right. I agree totally.   Marc: Yeah. Get yourself onto the calendar, have a consultation and a conversation with licensed professionals, CPA, CFP, EA. It's what Tony is for 30 plus years. If you need some help, find him online at yourplanningpros.com. That's your planningpros.com. We're going to wrap it up this week so thanks for hanging out with us here on Plan With The Tax Man, with Tony Mauro.   Tony, thanks for engaging and having some fun with me on this.   Tony Mauro: All right. We'll see you next time.   Marc: We'll see you next time here on the podcast.   Securities offered through Avantax Investment Services SM, member FINRA, SIPC. Investment advisory services offered through Avantax Advisory Services. Insurance services offered through an Avantax affiliated insurance agency. Investment strategies discussed in this episode may not be suitable for all investors. Please consult with a financial professional.

Register here to attend the live virtual event "Why Central Florida is the Year's Most Compelling Housing Market" on Thursday, February 19th at 8pm Eastern. Keith looks at how a changing Federal Reserve leadership might shape the interest rate environment, then zooms in on what's really happening with homebuilders versus remodelers across the country.  You'll hear about a lesser-known strategy some investors are using to step back from day-to-day landlording while keeping their income, and then we head to Central Florida to explore why one fast-growing market is quietly becoming a hotspot for new-build rental properties.  Along the way, a longtime Florida builder joins the show to explain how they're creating affordable, investment-friendly homes and what kinds of rents and tenant demand they're seeing on the ground—plus a way you can learn more live if this opportunity fits your own portfolio plans. Resources: Register for the event at GREwebinars.com Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/592 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the naming of a new Federal Reserve Chair. Then are homebuilders in trouble today? There are a dwindling number of them, and their profits are down. I'll talk to a homebuilder. Listen to what amenities tenants want today, and it's interesting. We'll learn how low of a mortgage rate builders will give you. Now there's an opportunity here today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:30   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Keith Weinhold  1:14   mid south home buyers with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated, there is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com   Speaker 1  2:17   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  2:33   Welcome to GRE from countersport Pennsylvania to Davenport Iowa and across 488 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education now more than ever, where you learn about personal finance and real estate investing matters. There's more AI generated content out there. This show is all flesh and blood me. There's also more clickbait content out there that says something like the housing market is about to have a price crash. No, it's not. They're just there to get short term attention. So your information source really matters today. New incoming Fed chair, Kevin Warsh, was recently named. He will replace the outgoing Jerome Powell on May 15. I want to tell you more about that in a moment. But first, just imagine if this scenario were to occur, say that we get a Fed chair that has to deal with really high inflation. And so what this Fed chair does is that he successfully brings inflation down, and he does that without triggering a recession that's called a soft landing. Well, you know what? That's exactly what Jerome Powell did the past three years. Yeah, that's what he's accomplished, and he doesn't get credit for it. He only gets a lot of criticism. Now this doesn't mean that I love Powell. I don't even know that the Fed should exist at all, but Powell got a lot of criticism for calling 2022, wave of inflation transitory, and being too late to respond to it. So he gets some credit here as his term of more than eight years winds down. Let's listen in to some of Jay Powell's recent comments about succession,    Speaker 2  4:23   you've obviously experienced a lot during your time as Fed chair, served under multiple presidents. I'm wondering what advice you have for whoever your successor might be.   Speaker 3  4:34   Honestly, I'd say a couple of things. One is, you know, stay out of elected politics. Don't get pulled into elected politics don't do it. And that's another thing. Another is that you know, our window into democratic accountability is Congress, and it's not a passive burden for us to go. To Congress and talk to people. It's an affirmative, regular obligation. If you want democratic legitimacy, you earn it by your interactions with the our elected overseers. And so it's something you need to work hard at, and I have worked hard at it so and the last thing is, you know, it's easy to it's easy to criticize government institutions so many ways. I will tell whoever it is you're about to meet the most qualified group of people you not only have ever worked with, you will ever work with and when you meet fed staff. And not everybody's perfect, but, but there isn't a better cadre of professionals more dedicated to the public well being than work at the Fed.    Keith Weinhold  5:43   Yeah. So to Powell's point, the next Fed chair, worsh, does champion fed independence, much like Powell has. That is a good thing that keeps America from turning into a banana republic that maintains a strong dollar. Warsh was actually a Fed Governor back during the 2008 global financial crisis, so he's got that experience when he comes in as Fed Chair in three months, he's widely expected to lower interest rates more than Powell did, much like the president wants. Kevin Warsh looks a lot like Michael Scott from the office. He has got to be less bumbling than him, though, overall, the effect on real estate and mortgage rates by shifting from PAL to worsh, I mean, that should be pretty mild. Maybe you'll see rates go a little lower than if pal had stayed and speaking of rates, wait till you see how low the mortgage rate is that our homebuilder guest is offering today. What's really happening with homebuilders now? How much trouble are they in? Homebuilders have largely been maligned. Overall. There are fewer homebuilders today in America than there were 20 years ago, and there are more remodelers than there were 20 years ago, fewer home builders, more remodelers, and that's for a few different reasons. Over the past couple decades, we just have substantially higher labor and material costs, stricter building and energy codes, higher interest rates, and that disproportionately hurts long duration construction projects. We've got zoning constraints and land constraints that make ground up development slow and uncertain and risky. So while the number of Home Builders in America is down, the number of remodelers are up, because America's housing stock is getting older. Its median age is over 40 years, and that creates constant demand for upgrades. Capital prefers faster, lower risk cycles. That's what remodels offer, and homeowners with locked in low mortgage rates choose to stay in place. And what does that make them do? That makes them renovate and remodel, not move. So this is why, compared to 20 years ago, you have fewer home builders and more remodelers. Today, that's per the NAHB and the Census Bureau and all these forces, they've resulted in a lower profit margin for homebuilders. Yes, homebuilder margin compression for a lot of the bigger builders, including DR Horton, just as you might guess in this cycle, their profits were greatest in 2022 and they have fallen since then. Higher mortgage rates came in, and builders had to lose profits by offering more incentives to entice buyers. You're going to learn more about that today and how it really spells quite an opportunity for you and I. When the final change in national home prices was tallied for the end of last year, they had risen in 16,500 zip codes. All right, that's 63% of America's zip codes, and prices were lower from a year earlier in the other 37% home price gains were concentrated in the Northeast and Midwest, and the story there continues to be too many buyers and not enough homes. In fact, over 85% of zip codes saw price growth in Illinois, Connecticut, Wisconsin and Indiana, slow, steady, stubborn, kind of like winter refusing to leave. Losses were predominant in the Sun Belt. Prices caught their breath there. There was price attrition in Florida, with 96% of zip codes, so nearly all of Florida, then California, 78% of zip codes had a price loss. Texas, 75% of them and Arizona, 73% the biggest pocket of opportunity appears to be in Florida. Florida property is on sale. And because real estate is local. A lot of times we talk here nationally, but to get to that local level, sometimes you have to dig in to a local market to really find out what's going on. We're going to do that today. Now, central Miami, Orlando and Tampa, they're not generally the spot for obtaining cash flow from long term rentals. I've identified an opportunity. We'll get into that with this Florida homebuilder shortly. It's kind of funny. You'll run into people that say they want opportunity, but what they really want is certainty. How it plays out, though, is that once the certainty arrives, the opportunity is gone, and that's how to think about Florida and maybe Texas and some of these other markets today that have had price attrition.    Keith Weinhold  10:48   Now, three weeks ago, here on the show, I discussed the 721 exchange for the first time. So I won't get into all those details again when it comes time for you to sell your investment property, the 721 can be the best way for you to cash out. Perhaps you've been investing in real estate for a while and you have turned get rich education into got rich education. How the 721 exchange works is they basically say you have a case where you're a rental property owner and you realize that you don't want the hassles of landlording anymore. Oftentimes, this can mean you're older and real estate investing already took you where you wanted it to take you in life's journey, but you still like the financial benefit that ownership gives you. What you can do is exchange your properties into a partnership and receive shares in that partnership. Now that's different than a 1031, exchange. That's where you trade up some of your property that you directly own for what's usually more and larger property that you directly own. Well, instead, here's the big deal with exchanging your properties into a 721, partnership. The rules stipulate that this is not a taxable event, and therefore you don't have to pay any capital gains tax or depreciation recapture. Now that you're an owner in the partnership, you still get some of the benefits of owning the property, like appreciation and cash flow and such, yet no management or landlording at all like you would have with a 1031 and with a 721 you get all these benefits across a greater number of properties and markets diversification because you're a fractional owner in the other properties that are in the partnership, not only your own, and when you eventually pass away, your shares are stepped up in basis and can be distributed equally to heirs and C It's surely easier for you to divide shares among, say, your three children, than it is to divide your 18 rental houses among three children Who are going to have different goals and varying degrees of financial savvy. So the 721, exchange is a great estate planning tool too. You will have this partnership that makes an offer to buy your property. You're exchanging them for partnership shares. There's a firm that does this called flock homes, and they have a certain Buy Box to be clear with the 721, exchange, you can basically trade your rentals for shares in a diversified, professionally managed Real Estate Fund. This means that you keep your hard earned equity defer capital gains and other taxes, and you still get access to steady income and long term appreciation without the hassle of landlord duties, and you can visit flockhomes.com/gre, and get a free valuation. Get an offer for your property, see if it fits their buy box and see how much they'll pay you. There's often no need to pay to fix up or stage the property for sale or pay agent commissions for a certain investor type. This really can be a rather life changing experience for you to liquidate some or all of your property have zero tax obligation and still enjoy income and appreciation. So again, what you can do is stop by flock homes.com/gre, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/g, R, E, let's discuss the home building climate today.   Keith Weinhold  14:38   I'd like to bring in a premium Florida homebuilder guest to the show, Jim, because there has been more homebuilding in Florida such that some areas of the state have excess supply. And when you add that onto the fact that the hot pandemic migration to Florida has slowed such that home prices have made a rare dip in the state, that is why it. A timely topic. Jim, you're on GRE Welcome to the show. Keith, great to be here. Thanks for having me. Yeah, and we did the IRL thing in Colorado there a few weeks ago. That was great hanging out in person. You provide entry level new build homes, mostly in Central Florida. And these are properties that are conducive to real estate pays five ways. These are properties that investors chiefly buy as rentals. So just bigger picture, tell us about that overall experience over, say, the last five years, as the pandemic wound down,    Jim Sheils  15:35   yeah, as the pandemic wound down, obviously Florida had a lot of attention. Some of it, rightly so, some of it, I think a little more inflated and commercial attention getting thrown at it. And you know, the type of deals that you and I have always stayed away from were very popular in Florida. You know, we're talking really nice houses. Keith, beautiful, nice HOAs people got in in 2021 let's say, with those very low interest rates on a six or $700,000 home, but now they're realizing that it's not going up $100,000 a year as they thought. And when they try to sell it, well, people trying to buy in $700,000 home, they're not getting that low interest rate. And if these people try to hold it and rent it, well, it doesn't cash flow, so it breaks one of those rules. It's not putting money in people's pockets, taking it out. And so we're seeing there was a large distribution of those types of houses around Florida. And then there were some builders like us that really focused on what was the most needed, and that was workforce housing. Now workforce housing, though, Keith, as you know, a lot of the builders don't want to build it. Why? Let's be straight. It's because the margins are lower right. But as you know, with me and my partner Chris, it was always let's make less margin and do more volume. That was always our model, and that was the area of the market where we felt we could build it right, we could get it financed right, and we could manage it right to hit the five things. And so we're seeing today, post pandemic, there are still key markets where the population growth is still the highest, coming into Florida, the prices are still the lowest, and there is a shortage of this type of workforce housing.   Keith Weinhold  17:11   Yes, you've identified a geography within Florida that have some of these characteristics like you're talking about. Tell us more about that region.   Jim Sheils  17:20   Yeah, we call it the Ocala region, so Central Florida, just west of Orlando. Right now, for example, u haul does their U haul top markets rankings every year? So where are the most U haul trucks going to now, you don't want to be on their side where they're coming from, Keith, because that's obviously the opposite. But for the second year in a row, the greater Ocala area has been the number 1u haul destination place in the country. So there's still a ton of population growth going there. Central Florida, I'm not going to say it sat out the growth during the pandemic that a lot of areas of Florida did, but it was starting at such a low basis with such a small amount of attention that today, even when people say, oh gosh, like I just said, house is 600 700 800,000 we're building new construction single family homes for under 300,000 the 270s a lot of the time. And we're building duplexes sometimes for under 400,000 and a lot of our you know, investors coming from the west coast. Say, are these fully built? Are they? But again, Central Florida has had a great affordability. Remain intact. It has a large population going in. There is a ton of job resource just blowing up in the area. And as you know, these are the things we look for. So we bought a lot of lots there. I'm gonna give credit to my partner, Chris. He saw calla more than I did, and we bought a lot of lots there in 2020 so before all the rises. So we got into the land basis, right? So that means we can build them at a great price. Our land basis is low, and that obviously passes along to our clients. And again, Central Florida is a perfect match for our goal. Because, you know, our goal is workforce housing, that cash flows on day one. But also nothing wrong with fixer uppers. I own a lot. I used to do a lot, but the new construction seems to have a little bit more of a less involvement, which it seems like a lot of our clients want.   Keith Weinhold  19:15   That was really prescient, as it turned out, for your business partner, Chris there to gobble up a lot of that land in 2020 before prices went soaring. And this is one reason why you can do things like offer a duplex for less than 400k That's a new build, which has some people saying like, does that thing include a roof even? But it surely does. These are very good quality livable properties. And the reason I have you here, Jim is because you are rare. There are fewer builders today than there were in decades past, and also those that build to your point earlier. They only want to build higher end properties, not the more affordable ones that you offer. We'll get more details on your price points and what properties. Products you offer later. But yeah, we have more remodelers today and fewer builders. And though it's a few years old, I found it interesting that census statistics show us that between 2007 and 2022 there are 73% more remodelers and 21% fewer builders today.    Jim Sheils  20:22   Interesting. You know, Keith, I didn't know that, and that makes me scratch my head on like when you and I were in Colorado, we were talking about future needs, even with growth that occurred during the pandemic going all the way back to oh eight when a real shortage started to start, we are still at an estimated three to 5 million homes short in the US. It really perplexes me that the amount of builders like us will be going down and not actually entering the market.   Keith Weinhold  20:47   Now, among those that are building, though, much of that is concentrated in the South, as I think we know, there's a recent resi club compilation show that 59% of current single family home building is in the south, and 41% is everywhere else. And how do you define the South? That's basically Maryland down to Florida, all the way out to Texas and Oklahoma. So you are pretty rare in some ways. However, where you're building regionally, that's not a rarity there, but yeah, having more remodelers today and fewer home builders, that's probably the result of a lot of things. You know, for one thing, just land and construction costs becoming that much more expensive over the past five years.   Jim Sheils  21:05    Yeah, we've been lucky, too, as you know, Keith, you've been with us for a decade now. But yeah, and we transitioned a piece of our company where Sumitomo forestry, large Japanese group stepped in and acquired a piece of our property. That was a very exciting thing for all of us together, because we had done well, and, you know, started small and built up to a decent sized builder for Northeast Florida and then the rest of Florida. But now, with Sumitomo coming in again, they build 17,000 homes worldwide every year, between all of their builders. Now being a part of them, we get to use their national material accounts, so they get pricing just as good, if not better, than national home builders, and they let us do our thing, stick to our build to rent, working with investor clients. We're not retail buyer guys, really. We like working with our investors, but just getting those great discounts on materials, again, we're always looking to pass on savings to our clients. Of course, we got to make margins as well, but if we're getting in with deals like that, getting into the land right, and knowing the pinpointed areas to get into, we can get the best deal for everyone. And that's been a major part having such a big, successful partner like Sumitomo keep us healthy, viable and able to do things we could have not even dreamed of five years ago.   Keith Weinhold  22:47   Yes, that gives you more capital and more options. Another unusual aberration in the market that really centers on a lot of what you do is that this fact that and this was mentioned on the show last year for the first time in my life, existing homes cost more than new build homes. Existing homes at about 420k nationally, and new build homes about 392k part of the divergence there is probably builder price cuts. So tell us more about that.    Jim Sheils  23:14   I think the issue Heath is builders built for largest spreads, and people bought very emotionally. I think you're to give you a compliment a very unemotional real estate buyer. You're not looking at, oh, this is a very nice, you know, extra his and hers porcelain sink. And we're looking at fundamental numbers a good, solid property. And I think what's caused a lot of that is people did the opposite. Builders were looking for the largest margin they could get, which was on those types of properties. And then buyers were looking very emotionally, and they were told, Hey, this is going to go up 50 to $100,000 a year. So just sit there and hold on, sure you'll lose $1,500 a month, but don't worry about it. You'll make up for that every year. And obviously we're not seeing that's true. They could have really used your class about the five ways to get paid in real estate. And I think that that's what's doing it. And this is what builders do. I mean, everyone's in a business, and a lot of builders just focus on the largest margin. Now that's eating them up now, because those types of properties are not in demand. To build them on spec would be very dangerous, but you can see that that worked for a short term. We're very glad we went to the low margin workforce housing model, because I see that falling out of favor almost never even in Oh 809, Keith, when I was in the remodel game, a lot of the properties that were new construction coming out that time they were affordable, still did very well.   Keith Weinhold  24:42   We're talking with a premium Florida homebuilder today, because they offer affordable properties that make sense for investors. But what about the demand? Where is that going to come from? Where is that going to be? And that's what's happening with the renter segment. We'll talk more about that when we. Come back. You're listening to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold,   Keith Weinhold  25:03   flock homes helps you retire from real estate and landlording, whether it's one problem, property or your whole portfolio through a 721, exchange, deferring your capital gains tax and depreciation recapture, it's a strategy long used by the ultra wealthy. Now Mom and Pop landlords can 721, the residential real estate request your initial valuation, see if your properties qualify@flockhomes.com slash GRE, that's F, l, O, C, K, homes.com/gre.    Keith Weinhold  25:39   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  26:51   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Ken McElroy  27:26   this is Rich Dad advisor, Ken McElroy. Listen to get rich education with Keith whitehold, and don't twitch your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  27:40   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, we're talking with Jim a premium Florida homebuilder here at such an interesting time in the cycle, since supply is up in some parts of Florida, Jim and his team has strategically chosen a place that is still fueling a lot of net in migration in Central Florida, and that's where the rental demand needs to come from as well. Now nationally, we've seen the homeownership rate fall over about the past year, from near 66% to near 65% that does not sound like much, but a 1% shift means there are 1.3 million new renters in just the past year. So with that in mind, and the fact that this low affordability for home buying means that people need to rent or stay renters longer, provides some of the Sustainable demand. So tell us more about the rental demand in Central Florida.   Jim Sheils  28:39   Yeah, you know, when we first went out there about a decade ago, Keith, I think it was 82 or 83% of all properties out there were owner occupied, which means it was a very lopsided amount of existing rental property available. And this is before the curve of population growth really took off. But when Chris and I went out there and we were assessing that small percentage of rental property that was out there. Gosh, it was old and kind of beat up. There was not a lot like the new construction that was available. So when we brought in new construction, we saw just the competition. Was hard to compete with us. You know, when it was an older, not so nice taking care of we came in and we saw a jump from, you know, doing older houses ourselves, you know, a person would stay about 13 months. But for the new construction in Central Florida, we've seen a jump to about three years. So that's really positive. People get into a new construction property they don't want to leave, whether that's half of a duplex or a single family. The duplexes are interesting because we're able to build those on infill lots and existing single family home neighborhoods, so a person who doesn't want to live in an apartment can live there, have their own yard, and they couldn't afford the whole single family, but to have half of a single family basically what a duplex is. It makes a big difference, and the people are in great demand of rental in Central Florida there because of exactly why. I said, Keith, the job. Course, continues to grow in Central Florida, extremely strong. The business incentives to come into the area by the local municipality is very, very good. So here's something interesting, Keith, the average salary in Ocala is about 72,000 and the average home price is about 298,000 that is a very healthy affordability one. Yeah, very, very good. And so that job source continues to pay very well. And we've talked about just the logistics centers and the Equestrian Center. That's the largest in the world. Now the villages are just 25 miles south. So Ocala becomes a bedroom community, and that is the second largest retirement community and growing in the US. So there's a lot of job source that allows people to live there at a good affordability. And so that combination of affordability with this extending job source has been really, really good for the Ocala region.   Keith Weinhold  30:59   It's been said that the only place you get money is from other people, and we're talking about your renters in this case. So oftentimes these renters, they had their sense of privacy there, like, for example, do the duplexes even have fenced backyards for each individual side,   Jim Sheils  31:17   depending on where they are? We will. Other times it hasn't been a requirement. We've done lots of surveys to see is it worth the price point to put in full fencing in certain areas. It can be in a lot of areas. Keith, they're just so excited with the price point not having to move into an apartment building that it hasn't even been warranted or necessary.   Keith Weinhold  31:38   Yeah. So we're talking about livability characteristics here, because oftentimes new build rental property results in a higher tenant stay that longer duration, because they're the first person that have ever lived there, and it's also difficult for them to go out and improve their living situation unless they become a home buyer, and that's difficult to do today. Tell us more about the incentives and the property types and so on, because there really are some pretty exciting ones.    Jim Sheils  32:09   One of the best things about Central Florida, Keith, combined with new construction, is insurance costs. Now you and I have laughed about the blanketed statement where you said, oh my goodness, you cannot get insurance in Florida. You can't get property insurance in Florida, or it's doubled, tripled, gone up 7x that is a true statement on certain properties. If you're buying older properties from the 1950s that are within a half mile of the beach on low lying ground, but new construction properties far away from the beach, that is a totally different things. So again, being in Central Florida, where we are, a lot of people think, oh, to insure a single family home there, that's going to be several $100 a month, when actually, you know, and you've seen a lot of our performer quotes, our insurance companies are getting a single family home done for about $65 a month on average, full coverage. And that's the advantage of new construction. Insurance companies are all about risk. They analyze risk. When you're on a new construction property built on higher ground away from the beach, they like that, and they do that a duplex. You're looking at about $100 a month. So incentive wise, we've really searched to team up with great insurance companies that get the best rates full coverage. And again, we surprise people when they say, Oh man, I thought there would be a whole nother zero at that monthly cost. And these are actual quotes, as you know, with working with a lot of GRE people. So that's one great thing, another great thing, Keith, that happened when we joined forces with Sumitomo. And again, Sumitomo 320, years old, one of the biggest powerhouses out of Asia, Warren Buffett, is very heavily invested in another one of the conglomerates, not the housing one we do, but he's very involved in one of their other companies. And when they came aboard, you know, we have no bank debt for a builder, which is rare. And since we have such a healthy balance sheet, we're actually able to work deals with mortgage companies where we'll do what's called builder forward commitments, Keith, and that means we will pre buy mortgages for our clients, for the homes we're building, and we will pass that savings along. So right now, you know, if an investment property in a duplex might be an average of 7% for anyone who walks in off the street to a bank. Right now, our most popular rate program for our investors, for single family or duplexes, is 3.75 Gosh. So as you know, for your five ways, if we want to get cash flow, there's a big difference. Yeah, we're getting affordable housing. But if the rate is over 7% compared to 375 that could eat up the cash flow with us being able to have this power to buy large tranches of money and pass it along and lock our people in again, an average right now at 3.75 is our most popular program, and that's long term money, then we're able to get that cash flow right off the bat. And you and I know how important that is   Keith Weinhold  34:50    for this super attractive 3.75% long term mortgage rate on single family homes and duplexes. How? Much does the buyer have to come out of pocket at the closing table to buy that down themselves? And how much do you the builder participate in that buy down?   Jim Sheils  35:07   You know, it depends Keith at different times, because there is a little bit of a fluctuation. Sometimes it can be as low as zero points or just one origination point to bring it in. It does vary. And also, if people say, hey, I really don't want to bring in any points. Well, that's fine. You know, if you don't want to walk in zero to 2% points for that, you can also just raise your rate up to four and a quarter and probably walk in nothing. So there's different things that we can do, but the goal of it is to have us have the brunt of it. And what I can tell you is, if the average person walked into a bank, and a bank wouldn't do this anyway. It's only for, again, builders with a certain size, but if you went into a bank right now and said, I'd like to buy my rate down to 3.75 the average Keith that this would cost a person off the street going into a bank would be 12 to 15% banks wouldn't even do it for an individual. But that's about the estimates when you look at it. So again, volume has privileged. The fact we're able to buy it down. It does cost us a good amount of money, but we're all able to save since we're kind of working together to buy these larger tranches. And again, the need of any investment for buying down the rate from the clients is very minimal.   Keith Weinhold  36:18   Tell us more about the property types, new build single family homes, new build duplexes.   Jim Sheils  36:23   You know, single family and duplexes are our main focus in 2026 for Central Florida, we've done the research. They're very high in demand. They rent quickly, and they rent long term to produce cash flow. Our average single family home under 300,000 we're aiming to after expense, make about $300 cash flow. Our duplexes should be about twice that amount, about just under $600 a month, or just over in cash flow. And then again, the prices are ranging from about 395, to 420, for a duplex. Again, these are in workforce areas where we're doing great, scattered lots. Scattered lot means there's already existing homes around. We like to go to an area where there's good a fundamental balance of homeowners and renters. So there's retail buyers that have bought their first home, and we will place our rentals in between them, whether it's a single family or a duplex.   Keith Weinhold  37:13   We sure don't need to do a complete audio pro forma here, but those cash flow amounts something near $300 for a single family home, and about double that for a duplex. Is that using, you know, a bought down rate to about 4% and some of these other inputs you're talking about, like low insurance costs and a certain property tax rate, can you tell us about that?    Jim Sheils  37:35   Yeah, property tax rate is property tax rate. We can get pretty dang close on property taxes, you know, based on millage and get that down. But when we do our performers, we absolutely go off of, you know, our average rate to be the 375, to four and a quarter. And then when GRE clients look at our performer, and they look at the insurance cost, that's an actual quote from one of our insurance companies that has insured hundreds and hundreds of these properties. Not a guess, yeah, so they know what they're doing. So yeah, those would be the assumptions made in there, and that's what we're basically getting on a week in, week out basis.    Keith Weinhold  38:09   That is really attractive as we're talking about new build. I imagine there is some sort of builder warranty as well.    Jim Sheils  38:16   There's a state mandated 210 warranty. 210 warranty is something we could talk probably a whole episode on Keith. But for what's good for people to know, basically what that means, you get two years coverage on the small stuff and 10 years coverage on the big structural stuff. And so that's why I like new construction. You know what? I used to personally just buy my own fixer up Return key properties from other people. I could get a one year warranty, and that's the best that really can be done. Now with new construction, we've gone from, you know, with our fixer upper homes, able to do a one year warranty, which is good at something. But now with new construction, we can do a 210 warranty, big difference, and also really helps the safety score of issues if they came up.    Keith Weinhold  38:59   We were talking about new build property, and we tend to project relatively low maintenance and repair costs for an obvious reason, maybe your long term vacancy rate could very well be lower as well, due to my earlier point about a tenant wanting to stay there for a long time, because it's hard for them to improve their living situation unless they went out and bought their own place. And you have the low insurance rates, and you have the low mortgage rates, all contributing to positive cash flow on a new build property. And we think about that tenant and what gets the tenant excited? We start to think about some of those amenities. So tell us about what amenities are offered, including inside, in the kitchen and so on.   Jim Sheils  39:38   Jim, yeah, great question, Keith. We've really gotten a great recipe for success for that. You know, we've been doing this a little over a decade now, and so you're always tweaking your build model. What do people like? What do they not like? What's good for durability? Let's look at maintenance and repairs. Let's look at turn costs. So our goal is always the dual focus. That's what looks good. And what lasts really well, yeah, because you want durability. When you have tenants, you want it to look good, so you sell it down the road, 510, years to a first time homebuyer, it looks great. You can sell it. But durability wise, you don't want a lot of extra expenses or maintenance and repairs. So we go durability. So what we found a couple of things. I always joke about this. I do not like the word carpet, Keith, that is a terrible swear word in real estate investing, I can tell you right now, if I could go back and this is not, you know, owning hundreds of rentals, if I could not have done carpet and just reversed it to like vinyl plank flooring, like we do now, or even tile, which was more, I probably would have been able to buy three or four of our duplexes cash with the amount of money, and that is not an exaggeration. So we do not do carpet. First of all, it seems like trends are changing. It's not in favor right now. So we do vinyl plank flooring, which looks really nice, almost like wood floors, super durable, though, for a young family that's going to be tenant occupied in your property and running around on it. That's great. Kitchen wise, again, we don't sell retail really. We like to work with investors, but down the road, our investor might want to sell to a retail buyer. So we know, you know, from our old fix and flip days of the FHA buyers, the kitchen's got a pop. So we always do, you know, we don't do the white appliances, which you know would save you quite a bit of money, and save us quite a bit of money. We do stainless steel appliances. We do all new cabinetry, you know, kind of the latest, nicer cabinetry, a little bit of an upgrade. And then, you know, butcher block countertops, those are going to wear in about a year or two. Keith, it feels really good to spend that smaller amount, you know. But we, we like to do the more durable, nice looking countertops, you know, that are, you know, just so much more esthetically pleasing and actually durable as well. Same thing in the bathrooms. A lot of new builders will do shower kit, which not a problem if you're saving money on a rehab, you know, but we would rather do tile, bring in the extra subcontractors to give tile, and then in the master we do the dual sinks, which this might sound like little stuff, Keith, but these are the micro movements that help get a tenant in quicker, stay longer and more rent. So we're always trying to do these extra things in the granite countertops, both in the kitchens and in the bathrooms. Those cost more upfront, but we see for long term of tenant we see, for the amount of rent we get, and for resale ability, because a lot of people don't think about that. You know what? In seven years you want to sell one of these properties? Well, it's a seven year old roof, it's seven year old plumbing, you're still in a great spot for an FHA buyer. And that esthetically pleasing flooring, bathrooms, kitchens. That allows an easier sale for them, because we want to look all the way around, not just a rental. I like to hold long term, but if you want to sell in five to 10 years, that's a very valid strategy.    Keith Weinhold  42:48   I like carpet in my own home, but not rentals. But what you're sharing with us, Jim, this is absolute gold that's been brought to you through experience. This over improvement versus under improvement line in rentals, and it really has a lot of balance between durability and price. These are the sort of things that really matter, but you are selling predominantly to individual investors, a lot of mom and pop investors. Why don't you make more sales to the retail, owner occupied market, or to institutional investors, even though that might be cracked down upon now. But why don't you sell to those parties?   Jim Sheils  43:26   Yeah, you know Keith, I did a lot of fix and flip to FHA buyers, and I'm an investor. I really like working with investors. So when this all really went back to is 2009 I had a lot of investors. I was in Northeast Florida. The deal flow was incredible. And I just had a lot of investors, you know, through my different networks and Masterminds, like, where you and I have met, and said, Hey, you're getting great deals in Northeast Florida. Could you help put some together for me? And so I had done quite a few fix and flips to retail buyers, and it just kind of hot on me, you know, way back then, like, Wow. I like working with investors. I like building portfolios. I also like the fact that when I'm normally building a portfolio for an investor, well, they hang out with other investors, and they're not looking to buy one property over the next five years. They're looking to buy five to eight properties over the next five years. great point. And so we just saw it as you gotta like who you work with, right? And nothing against first time homebuyers. But when I was rehabbing houses and selling them, golly, that was a lot of work. And then could be persnickety. Yeah, very persnickety. And so when Chris and I teamed up about 10 years ago, we had both gone through the same kind of aha, like going, Yeah, it seems great, but you could sell for more to a retail buyer. But again, like I go back to even the type of property we build, we'd rather do a volume with investors. Be a builder, buy investors for investors, and work that way. And I think it suits me. I think I would have probably hung up my shoes a long time ago if I was. Working with the amount of properties we've done with retail buyers compared to investors, honestly, and so I think it was just kind of, it was a preference, really, that made sense   Keith Weinhold  45:09   to your point. Investors buy multiple properties, and that way there are fewer parties to deal with. And investors tend to be less emotional than those more persnickety, owner occupied buyers. Well, Jim, you make it easy for investors. Besides all these incentives, you also offer an in house management solution for these investors, often that tend to be out of state. Well, Jim, before I ask you, if you have any closing thoughts, would you the listener like to ask Jim any question directly? Well, you can, because I have a great event to tell you about next Thursday, the 19th, at 8pm eastern Jim here and GRE investment coach, Naresh will co host a live webinar for Central Florida new build income property. In fact, Jim, I think you know Naresh longer than I have, as it turns out, but this event is free, and you the listener are invited. We've had between 250 and 550 registrants for our past webinars. Not all of them attend live. So the benefit of you attending live is that you can have any of your questions answered by either Naresh or Jim in real time, and besides learning about the Central Florida market and more about home building, you are going to see available new build income property, real addresses with some of these rather grand incentives that we've talked about here, you might end up with a long term rate of about 4% again, it is Thursday, the 19th at 8pm Eastern. Sign up is open now at grewebinars.com that's grewebinars.com Any final thoughts here, Jim, for this great event coming up next week?   Jim Sheils  46:52   I think we're going to dig a little deeper. Obviously, this is a conversation that was great, but moves pretty quickly when we talk next week, we're going to be able to dig into more of the fundamentals, some of the stats, and just get underneath the hood of why Central Florida is making so much sense, and just some of the rising stars that we're seeing there that we're very excited to be a part of.   Keith Weinhold  47:13   You've helped our listeners for close to 10 years now. It's been an informative chat as always. Thanks so much for coming back onto the show.    Jim Sheils  47:21   Thanks for having me, Keith.   Keith Weinhold  47:27   Yeah, like our guest touched on Ocala, Florida now has national recognition as the fastest growing city in America, and that's for the second year in a row. According to a new U haul report, Florida is, of course, a rather landlord friendly state. In fact, Florida is the first state to enact a law that allows law enforcement to immediately remove squatters, distinguishing them from legal tenants. Now here's what's interesting and why I've identified this opportunity if Florida prices dipped because people were leaving now, that could be a red flag, because population loss is like gravity. Once it starts falling, it is hard to escape. But that's not what's happening. Instead, what we're seeing is a temporary overbuild hangover. Builders got ambitious. We're in a brief period where supply outran demand and prices softened. That's not decay. That's a sale rack. Any vacant homes are not stranded. They're being absorbed by Florida's still growing population, which has now increased every single decade since its first census count, back in the year 1830 back in 1830 there were about 35,000 residents in the whole state. Isn't that amazing today? North of 24 million, that is 700x population growth in almost 200 years, and it's still growing. That kind of trend doesn't reverse because a few builders over ordered inventory here at GRE this made us target and find in opportunity. This isn't an accident. Central Florida is this year's most compelling. Housing market in that region, Central Florida, is growing faster than the rest of the state at large, and it really sits in the sweet spot of this temporary imbalance. One long established builder overbuilt and now they're motivated. They know what investors want. So, for example, they don't build swimming pools with their homes. They also offer property tours, and over 90% of their tour attendees buy property. They're willing to offer terrific incentives at our upcoming GRE live webinar, like we touched on new build single family rentals, 270k and up duplexes, three. 95 to 420, long term mortgage rates as low as 3.75% you get low insurance rates since they're inland and new build positive cash flow and a builder warranty at the event. You're going to learn all about the growth drivers in Central Florida, why so many renters are moving there and see available properties. This benefits anyone looking for a clear, practical view of current real estate conditions. Joining live does matter, since you can have those questions answered in real time, not after the opportunity has moved on, you are invited for next Thursday, the 19th, at 8p m Eastern. This one is worth circling, not because it's flashy, because it's timed right. Sign up is open now @grewebinars.com that's gre webinars.com. Until next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 5  51:00   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  51:29   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com  

LLC asset protection expert Garrett Sutton, Rich Dad advisor and Corporate Direct founder, joins attorney Ted Sutton to reveal entity structuring strategies that protect entrepreneurs from lawsuits while optimizing tax savings. Operating as a sole proprietor exposes you to five times greater IRS audit risk and unlimited personal liability—this episode provides proven frameworks successful business owners use to build wealth without risking everything. You'll discover: why Wyoming LLCs offer superior charging order protection for real estate investors and crypto assets at just $62 annually, how S corp taxation eliminates 15.3% payroll tax on distributions (saving $6,000+ yearly on $100K income), the catastrophic mistakes DIY entity formation creates, and proper multi-state holding company structures. Garrett shares Robert Kiyosaki's asset protection philosophy from Start Your Own Corporation and Loopholes of Real Estate, explaining how entity structures integrate with trust planning to avoid probate. Ted addresses Corporate Transparency Act compliance and March 2026 FinCEN reporting requirements for cash real estate transactions. Perfect for established entrepreneurs with $100K+ income seeking business growth frameworks that integrate tax planning with asset protection. Essential topics include: choosing between Delaware, Nevada, and Wyoming jurisdictions, structuring holding companies for rental properties, protecting crypto in LLCs, building your money team with CPAs and attorneys, and avoiding the sole proprietorship trap. This conversation bridges startup entity selection with advanced scaling strategies for coaching businesses, real estate portfolios, and service-based enterprises prioritizing sustainable growth with integrated liability protection.

راهنمای غلبه بر ترس و خودتردیدیRich Dad's Before You Quit Your Job: 10 Real-Life Lessons Every Entrepreneur Should Know About Building a Million-Dollar Business | ۱۰ درس واقعی از زندگی که هر کارآفرین باید درباره ساختن یک کسب‌وکارِ میلیون‌دلاری بداندRobert T. Kiyosaki | نویسنده: رابرت کیوساکیناشر: آوین | مترجم: ابوذر کرمی گوینده و متن: مهدی بهمنیتدوین و صدابرداری: رضا بهمنیطراح پوستر: کورش عنبریاسپانسر: ویپاد | ترابانک پاسارگاداسپانسرشیپ: KetabJibiPodcast.com/Sponsorshipحمایت مالی: KetabJibiPodcast.com/Donateارتباط با ما: KetabJibiPodcast.com/Contact-usاینستاگرام: Instagram.com/KetabJibiPodcastتلگرام: T.me/KetabJibiPodcastیوتیوب: YouTube.com/@KetabJibi Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode of The $100M Entrepreneur podcast, Brad Sugars sits down with Sharon Lechter for a real conversation about what actually creates wealth at the highest levels—and why most business owners never get there.This isn't about making your next sale. It's about building a business that works without you and becomes a true asset. Sharon breaks down why founders become the biggest bottleneck in their own companies, and how failing to plan an exit quietly caps growth, valuation, and freedom. They talk through what separates businesses that stall at a few million from those that scale to nine figures and beyond.You'll hear why systems matter more than personality, why intellectual property is often a company's most valuable (and overlooked) asset, and how strategic buyers think very differently than financial buyers. Brad and Sharon dig into exits that don't involve walking away with a check—businesses that continue producing income, impact, and legacy for generations.If you want your business to run without you, scale past your current ceiling, and one day give you real options instead of obligations, this episode will stretch how you think.About Sharon Lechter:  Sharon is a CPA, entrepreneur, and one of the most influential leaders in financial education. She is best known as the co-author of Rich Dad Poor Dad and for helping build the Rich Dad brand into a global powerhouse through licensing, partnerships, and intellectual property strategy. Over her career, Sharon has worked behind the scenes scaling multiple companies to nine figures while focusing on systems, leverage, and long-term impact. Her work centers on helping entrepreneurs create businesses that outlive them. About Brad SugarsInternationally known as one of the most influential entrepreneurs, Brad Sugars is a bestselling author, keynote speaker, and the #1 business coach in the world. Over the course of his 30-year career as an entrepreneur, Brad has become the CEO of 9+ companies and is the owner of the multimillion-dollar franchise ActionCOACH®. As a husband and father of five, Brad is equally as passionate about his family as he is about business. That's why, Brad is a strong advocate for building a business that works without you – so you can spend more time doing what really matters to you. Over the years of starting, scaling and selling many businesses, Brad has earned his fair share of scars. Being an entrepreneur is not an easy road. But if you can learn from those who have gone before you, it becomes a lot easier than going at it alone. Please click here to learn more about Brad Sugars: https://bradsugars.com/Build a Business That Gives You More Time, Money & Life: Get The $100M Playbook: https://go.bradsugars.com/100m-playbook-ebook

Keith shares how a recent trip to Colorado Springs and a changing commission landscape reveal what really matters for real estate investors now From there, the show dives into the three levers investors truly control—leverage, operations, and relationships—before welcoming lender Caeli Ridge to break down the major mortgage options for investors. You'll hear how different loan types fit different strategies: from your first conventional "golden ticket" loans, to DSCR loans based on property income, to short-term fix-and-flip and bridge loans that prioritize speed and flexibility.  The episode then moves into how more advanced investors can scale beyond 10 doors, navigate debt-to-income and tax strategy, and even approach financing for short-term rentals—all while highlighting why having the right lending partner and long-term plan can make a big difference to your results. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/591 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold with new ways to think about your life through goals momentum in the real estate market. Then learn about various mortgage loan types, conventional DSCR, fix and flip, bridge loans, short term rental loans and more. Knowing which loans to use can save you millions and learn the fatal mortgage mistakes you must avoid today on get rich education.   Corey Coates  0:29   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads and 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 1  1:14   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:30   Welcome to GRE from Winnebago, Minnesota to Winnipeg, Manitoba, and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education, the voice of real estate investing since 2014 before we get into the mortgage discussion, where we'll discuss five or 10 different investor loan types and their various pros and cons, which could save you millions over the course of your life. I shared with you that I traveled to Colorado A couple weeks ago, for a goals retreat hosted by the real estate guys, top notch event, I spent extra time there in Colorado Springs, because I find it really livable, and I spent five hours with a local realtor there, one day out and about visiting properties in the area I'm potentially looking for a home or a second home. And by the way, how is this for a price range? The realtor wanted to know what my Buy Box is, and since I'm just learning the Colorado Springs market, I told him I'm willing to spend between 400k and 1.2 million on the property, yeah, pretty wide range, a mile wide. Fortunately, my other Buy Box criteria are more narrow and specific, and I have got to say, I'm surprised at how low the area's home prices are. I thought they'd be higher. Interestingly, before touring homes, my buyer agent wanted me to sign a six month exclusive representation agreement. Fair enough, that's standard stuff. It was on the agreement, though, that I as the buyer pay a 3% commission up on the purchase, and the seller would presumably pay the other 3% to make up that total 6% commission for the agent compensation. Well, historically, the seller paid the entire 6% and this, of course, goes back to the NAR settlement, and that ruling that became effective in August of 2024 you probably remember this, and I talked about it on the show back then, and how it's not really that big of a deal, especially to investors like us, because at GRE marketplace and with our GRE investment coaching, it's a direct model. There's zero commission on either side, and then you, in turn, get some of those savings, but out in the larger world and in the owner occupant world. Well, that rule change that started a year and a half ago. It means that sellers are no longer required to pay the buyer's agent. Instead, the fee is now negotiable between buyers and their agent. The other change is that property listings no longer display the buyer agent's commission offer. But here's what's interesting in practice, and what really ends up happening in the end, in most cases, is that the seller still pays the full commission and compensates both agents that full 6% sometimes it's 5% instead of six buyers and buyer agents, they still operate under the seller pays. And that's largely because that has just been the norm. It's what's seemingly always been done. It's what buyers are used to. And the reason that that often persists. Is because the seller is the party in the transaction that has that thick equity in the property, deep equity, and buyers are the ones often just trying to scrape together whatever they can for a down payment and closing costs. Buyers are not going to be able to come up with another 15k for an agent commission when they're buying a 500k property, that's 3% especially today, this is true because American homeowners the seller then still have record equity positions of about 300k an all time high. Nearly half of mortgaged homes are considered equity rich. What does equity rich mean? It means that the loan balance is less than half of the home's value, yeah, the seller has the means to pay the full commission. So the point is, in practice, the seller, yeah, still pays that full five to 6% commission in the overwhelming majority of cases, and the buyer pays nothing. And if that does change, it's going to take a long time. You know, a lot of these evanescent real estate stories that people think are going to have some seismic impact. It rarely does, like this erstwhile NAR ruling or the 50 year mortgage proposal or banning big institutions for buying more single family rentals. You know, this stuff is like one little baseball sized asteroid striking an entire planet. I mean, it's like a barely discernible impact. Real estate is anchored in one place like Jabba the Hut. It is solid. These stories are interesting, but they're not impactful.   Keith Weinhold  6:52   Instead, I've mentioned it before. What are three things you control in real estate that really matter. And these are evergreen things. First, it's, how many dollars are you leveraging? That's where your wealth is going to come from. In fact, we're going to discuss that today with mortgage loan types. Second, what's the efficiency of operations on your existing properties? And thirdly, what is the quality of your relationships? And actually, we're addressing the third one today too, talking to a lender that you could make part of your team. You can control these three things. They're unyielding, they're evergreen, they're long term, and they all have gratitas and impact those three things, leverage operations and relationships. Now my agent drops me off and picks me up from my hotel here at the Broadmoor in Colorado Springs. This was also the event hotel for the goals retreat. I just extended my stay to hang out in the area. Look at real estate, do some climbing on Pikes Peak. Pro tip for you on hotel room rates, talk to a human being before I booked my stay, I called the front desk and asked them if they could extend the attractive event room rate to more nights on my extended stay. And they agreed. You might have heard of the Broadmoor. It is well known. It's been here for more than 100 years, and it is such a fine place to stay. Let me tell you about this special piece of real estate. In fact, I've thought it through, and I will now hereby proclaim that it is the finest us hotel experience that I've ever had in my life. I say us because I stayed at an amazing place in Dubai. But what makes the Broadmoor stand alone? It's the details and the service. A lot of hotels are nice, but this is on a different level. And I don't say this to brag, and this is because you probably can afford to stay here, yeah, like I have. You might have paid more elsewhere in your life for a lesser hotel, although I am here in the low seasons. Okay, now, sure, you've got views of the Rockies and a man made lake and waterfall and even a beautiful chandelier in my hotel room. The thing that sets it apart, though, is you have this service that feels old world and not corporate. That's what makes the difference. The Broadmoor is horse themed, since horses are a symbol of the American West. There are about 800 rooms here. It's kind of like a self contained adult Disneyland championship golf courses, a world class spa, even an outdoor lap swimming pool like that has lanes that I swam in one morning for. Fine dining, casual dining, access to hiking, fly fishing, even falconry, zip lines, tennis, pickleball pools. Take the cog railway to the Pikes Peak, Summit. Okay. Now, other nice hotels have attractions that are sort of like that, but when I rave about the service, it's the little things they are knocking on my door before 10am to come in and clean the room. And you know how so commonly, when you first check into your hotel room and you look in the closet, there are not enough clothing hangers, and they're all like stupidly mismatched. These all match. They're all nice wood, and there are plenty of them. So I'm talking about these details. I'm telling you. I had dinner at one of the broadmoor's restaurants the other night. I just happened to take a close look at the tag on the napkin. Sure enough, it is made in Italy. I mean, jeez, no detail is overlooked at this stellar place. In fact, here's what I'll do. You know, I'll just completely stop my Colorado Springs home search right now. Instead, I'm going to stop down by the Broadmoor front desk, tell him to give me some moving boxes, because I'm moving into the Broadmoor and I'll be here for the next decade. Start forwarding my mail here and everything. And hey, at least I was courteous enough to give them notice. I can't stay here too long, or my standards will be rising faster than my net worth. Yeah, yeah. Can't go to sleep with a mint on your pillow every night, I suppose.    Keith Weinhold  11:38   Now, the reason I came here now is to attend that aforementioned goals retreat, and let me take all the time and all the resources that I put into being here and distill them into just a few of the most salient takeaways for you. Goals should be smart, strategic, measurable, actionable, relevant and time based, they must be written down. Now, how would you describe yourself to somebody else that didn't know who you were? Write that down next. What do you think your reputation is? How would others describe you? Write that down now that you can see how you describe yourself and how others describe you, you can see that there's a gap there. That gap is what you need to work on. I learned that goal should be written in the present tense, not the future tense. I did not know that before. For example, say it is January 1, 2035, and I own $5 million in rental property. That's an example of how you would do that. So take future events and write them in the present tense. Other questions at the goals retreat that got really introspective are, what are you really going to do with your life? And write down that answer. Sheesh, that is tough. And if you think that's a hard question for you to ask of yourself, the next one is even harder. It's simply why? Why is that where you're going with your life? And then write that down? I mean, would you answer questions like this for yourself? And you really think about it, that can occupy a new segment of your entire headspace. It is a big cognitive load, and a last one to leave you with is to dream not just big, but gigantic. Get it out there, write down a dream that interests you, but it's so grandiose that you're actually embarrassed to tell someone about this stretch dream, for example, for me, it's the first person to walk on another planet. No human has ever done that, and this would most likely happen on Mars. See, this is so grand that is sort of embarrassing for me to even share that with you. It almost makes you sound Loony, like I would have to learn so many new skills to travel to and walk on Mars. But you should write down a bunch of other goals too. You're sort of brainstorming on goals, attainable goals. Recall that is the A in the SMART goals acronym, you want to write down a bunch of attainable ones, not just that stretch one. So for attainable ones, one of them is for me to become the highest man on earth. To give you an example. And I attempted that goal two years ago, and I failed. I told you about that at that time. But see now, compared to my embarrassing stretch goal of walking on Mars, the highest man on earth feels attainable, I know what it takes to achieve it, and it's worth doing, ah, but it's a grind to get there, yet it would be worth it. Those are some quick take. Ways from the real estate guys goals retreat while on stage the event host Robert helms he took a minute respite from the goals material, and he recognized the fact that, as he calls it, the four OG real estate podcasters are all in the same room. One of them is helms himself, and now I feel like the other three are all older and doing it longer than me. I was one of the four that he mentioned. But you know, there is only one podcast that was mentioned from stage, and that is that Robert helms told the audience that they should be listening to the get rich education podcast. That was a nice thing to say, and he is always a gracious giver.   Keith Weinhold  15:45   Next, we're talking about four major loan types, conventional DSCR, fix and flip and then bridge loans. When we discuss the first two parts of it could sound repetitive, but you'll see why we do this, because then you'll be able to compare it to nichey loan types that we discuss, for example, the speed of a bridge loan, where you can get funded in just one week, compared to a slower conventional loan. The mortgage landscape changes. I still remember how in 2012 we had still somewhat freshly emerged from the global financial crisis, and back then, you could only get four conventional loans, four rental properties, not 10 like you can today, 20 married. So get your loans while you can, you probably won't always be able to get 10 loans. We'll start with loan types that are more for beginners, and then we'll get to advanced material. Let's welcome back one of our favorite recurring guests.   Keith Weinhold  16:54   You can make millions more throughout your life by understanding mortgage loans. This is key, and today it's the return of the woman that's created more financial freedom through real estate than any other lender in the entire nation, because she's the president of ridge lender group. Hey, it's time for a big welcome back to the incomparable, yet somehow still so approachable Chaley Ridge   Caeli Ridge  17:16   my Keith, thank you for having me. I love being here. I love what you're doing. It's my pleasure, sir.   Keith Weinhold  17:23   And our followers, our listeners, have been approaching you since 2015 you're one of the longest running guests, truly one of the OGS around here at GRE and now Caeli, before we discuss loan types. You know, we don't really talk politics on this show rather policies, and we're in the midst of a presidential administration that often, in the name of the word affordability, is trying to supremely shake things up in the housing market. Help us dissect what matters and what won't.   Caeli Ridge  17:58   I have found that at least as it relates to current administration, whoever that might be, I wait for the buzzwords or the taglines to become the actual policy. Like you said, That's a good point in this case. You know, you've got things floating around, like the 50 year mortgage cutting off the hedge fund guys and that kind of thing. Whether or not, those things come to fruition. I'm happy to give my opinion on them. I do not think that it's going to move the needle much for the people that you and I serve with regard to I mean, just taking them one at a time, I don't think that the 50 year is going to come to fruition. Just first and foremost, if it did do, I think it would be a good idea for a homeowner, probably not, but for an investor, maybe if there's some way that we can keep our payment lower, given the maturity date of a mortgage for an investment property is usually about five years. I mean, I know that this is a 30 year fixed mortgage, but statistically speaking, the average shelf life of a non owner occupied mortgage is about five years. So getting a 50 year amortization, if that were going to reduce the payment, I don't think is a bad thing for an investor, however, and this may get a little bit technical for the listeners, so I apologize in advance if we were to go to a 50 Year am the adjustments, something called, and you and I have talked about this before, something called an llpa, that stands for loan level price adjustment, I think would be such that it could end up defeating the purpose of having the longer term amortization, because I think the interest rates would be higher and I think they may offset so that was a long way to say. One, I don't think it's going to happen. I don't think it's actually going to get to its final resting place. And two, would it be a good idea for investors, yeah, I think it would be worth considering if it kept the payment lower. Okay, that's that as the other piece to cutting off the hedge funds, the big, you know, BlackRock, some of the big players, and giving them access to the residential housing and first right of infusion or etc, because they've got such deep pockets. You. It's such a small amount to what our individual investors are going to have access to that I don't think that that moves the needle either. So I don't know if I'm answering the question, except to say anything that they're going to tout, I would wait for it to actually become written in stone and pass by the rest of the powers that be before I would get excited about or concerned about any of it.   Keith Weinhold  20:21   This is pretty parallel with what I've been telling our listeners. All these things seem to make splashy news, but I haven't seen anything that's going to make a deep impact yet, whether it's the 50 year mortgage, which probably won't even come to fruition, or if it's doing these mortgage bond buy downs in order to bring more liquidity into the market and bring rates down, or if it sees any of these other things being discussed with these institutional investors, since they already own such a smaller proportion of the housing market than a lot of people think, we'll discuss seasoned real estate investors and their loans shortly, but first for newer real estate investors, you Know, chili, I kind of think of four or more loan types that a beginner should be familiar with. I think of conventional loans, dscrs, fix and flips and then bridge loans, the first one with conventional loans. What are the basics that someone should know?   Caeli Ridge  21:17   So first of all, you should know that there are 10 of these. We call them the golden tickets. I'm pretty sure I coined this, okay, 100 years ago, the golden ticket. We call the conventional aka Fannie Freddie, aka agency. They go by different names, but they all mean the same thing. We call them the golden tickets because it's the highest leverage and typically at the lowest interest rate you can find. Now I do have a hook in our conversation today about that. I'll get we'll get to it. There are 10 of these per qualified individual. So one of the first things that I would tell somebody is, is that if they are a partnership or a husband and wife team, you want to make sure to keep the debt obligation separate, because if you want to maximize these golden tickets, let's just say it's a husband and wife team. You each have, per qualification access to 10, and that includes a primary residence. In fact, let me just take a quick second and define what counts in the 10, because some people get this wrong. So the 10 golden tickets are counted by any residential property, single family, up to four Plex that has a loan on it, where the loan is in the individual name or personally guaranteed by the individual. That's where people get tied up. So if they went out and got a kind of more of a commercial type loan, that was in an LLC name, for example, but they signed a personal guarantee, per Fannie Freddie guidelines, that particular mortgage is going to count against the 10. So those would be some of the first pieces of news or detail I would give them about conventional    Keith Weinhold  22:40   for married couples, don't take ownership in both the husband and wife's name, either the husband or the wife. That way, you can get to 20 rather than 10. And yes, you do have to be mindful that your primary residence does count in that 10 or 20, whatever it might be. Anything else quickly with conventional loans, LTVs so on,    Caeli Ridge  23:01   yeah, LTV can go to 85% loan to value. So you get a little bit extra than you're going to get in some of the other loan product types. It will have PMI, private mortgage insurance, anything over 80% LTV will always have PMI on a more conforming, conventional basis. So keep that in mind. But the factor is pretty low. I would encourage people that are looking to stretch the almighty dollar. Do the math. Look at the 85 with PMI against, say, an 80% and see what are you giving up versus what you're getting. And then qualification stuff, you guys, my dumb joke, it's Keith's favorite. I'm sure vials of blood and DNA samples are sort of required for the Fannie Freddie loans. So just be prepared to supply or submit us the tax returns and pay stubs and bank statements and and all that stuff,   Keith Weinhold  23:44   you'll feel like you're getting fingerprinted almost for a conventional loan qualification. And the second one that I brought up DSCR loans, that's short for debt service coverage ratio. And these mortgages are pretty standard for rental properties. They're underwritten based on a property's income potential. So you know, the way I think of dscrs Chaley from the lender's perspective, is that sustainable cash flow is what matters. The rent has got to support the property's monthly mortgage payments. So we talked to us more about dscrs.    Caeli Ridge  24:15   Yeah, I love this product, and this is for somebody that either can't fit into the conventional Fannie Freddie box, or maybe they've exhausted their golden tickets and they're graduating and moving on. This is a great option that will reduce the amount of vials of blood and DNA samples that you're going to have to submit. It still provides for a 30 year fixed mortgage. The leverage is roughly the same, 80% in most cases, on a purchase. And to your point, the gross income divided by the principal, interest, taxes, insurance and Hoa, if it's applicable, is the simple formula, the easy method I'll give people, just to kind of solidify that math, is that if the gross rents were $1,000 a month, and if the PI TI was $1,000 a month, when you divide that, your debt service is 1.0 Now you can go as low, believe it or not, as low as a point seven, five, DSCR, they have those available be ready for the interest rate to get a little hair on it. Okay, it's going to be higher than what the 1.0 and above is going to be. But you can go as low as point seven, five, those are going to be for the investors that have found a property, maybe in distress, and they cannot show the current market value rent, perhaps, and it's on the low end. So you can still get that done at point seven, five, just be ready for a higher interest rate.   Keith Weinhold  25:30   So the DSCR loan an alternative for you, which might be especially useful, like Chaley touched on, if you've already exhausted your 10 golden ticket. Fannie Freddie loans, a DSCR of 1.2 for example, means that your rent income needs to exceed your principal, interest, taxes and insurance payment by 20% or more. That's what we're talking about here. And then Chile, those were more of loans for the buy and hold type of investor. Tell us about fix and flip loans.    Caeli Ridge  26:03   Yeah. So these are shorter term loan that will allow you to include not just the purchase of the property, but also some renovation or rehab money if you need that. And we're going to be looking at an ARV after repair value. So you've got a purchase price, you've got your renovation or scope of work budget. And then we're looking for an ARV with the ARV to be somewhere around 75% so what that means, if you've not heard of this before, you're going to take, let's say, $100,000 value. And if we want the ARV to be at 75% we're going to lend 75,000 is kind of the mix there. Those are quicker loans. You're going to be paying much higher rates on those. You know, between nine and 13% depending on the deal. The points are also going to be a little bit higher, but a great option for that quick turn and burn where you know your deal has enough skin in it and you can recapture all your capital and make a good tidy profit on it.   Keith Weinhold  26:53   We're talking about basically fixer upper loans here with Chaley Ridge, the president of ridge lending group, yes, these are jalopies that rarely qualify for traditional bank financing. And oftentimes, when I think about these fix and flip loans, I'm thinking that often there is interest only flexibility with regard to those higher interest rates that you need to pay. And I think of it as, you know, a shorter term loan that you've got during your renovation period, oftentimes 12 to 18 months. Does that sound about right?   Caeli Ridge  27:24   Yeah, 6,18, even 24 months. And to your point, yes, all of these are going to be interest only. And one of the cool things is about these loans is, is that, if there's enough room in the deal, right, based on what you need to borrow and what we think the ARV is expected to be, you don't even actually have to be making those interest payments. You can build it into the final payout when we go to refinance you out of this short term loan, or you simply sell the property and pay off that loan. So for example, let's say that your interest only payment is $1,000 a month, okay? And the value of the property is going to be $200,000 and you only took 120 okay, we're going to be well within that 75% ARV. You can build in that $1,000 say, for 12 months, there's $12,000 and just add it to the outstanding balance that you started by owing, and not have to be making those payments on an ongoing basis. It's not rented, right? So it might be nice to be able to factor that in to the actual payoff when you go to refinance that if it's a fix and hold versus go to sell it on a fix and flip.   Keith Weinhold  28:31   Now, long term, we know that the big gains for real estate investors really come from that leveraged appreciation getting that loan. But sometimes there are situations where we might want to act as a cash buyer. And that brings up this fourth of four loan types that I brought up, the bridge loan, short term loans that can temporarily finance a property purchase while you're waiting for a longer term loan to come through. The bridge loan, so I think of it as a pretty speedy loan, if you sort of want to act like you're an all cash buyer.   Caeli Ridge  29:04   Yeah, I like this, and in many ways it's similar to a fix and flip interest only. Obviously the term is going to be shorter, six months, 12 months, up to 24 months, and based on largely relationship, the bridge loan for the purpose that you described, really comes into play for an investor that we know and we're comfortable with, we can fund those inside a week, for somebody that we've done several of these loans for. So for those that need that really quick turn, once you've established yourself as a seasoned, experienced investor in that space, those are pretty slick and easy to get through.   Keith Weinhold  29:39   Why would someone use a bridge loan, rather than a fix and flip loan.   Caeli Ridge  29:43   So if they're in a very competitive market, that might be another option, because those are going to be faster. The bridge loan is going to be faster where they need to say that they're an all cash buyer and they only need seven days to close, or whatever it is. It depends on the municipality in the state. But what if you're at the courthouse steps? And you need cash quickly. Sometimes it needs to be immediate. So that might not be applicable in this case, but if you put the bid in, and you win the bid, and you've got, you know, three days to perform, usually we can get those done. So it's circumstantial. Those would be two variables or two scenarios that that would apply to   Keith Weinhold  30:17   the bridge loan gives you the advantage of speed, but that speed can come at a cost.   Caeli Ridge  30:22   Oh yeah, yeah, you're going to be paying probably three points, maybe four points, and it's short term interest, 13, 14%   Keith Weinhold  30:30   so with these four loan types that we've discussed, conventional DSCR, fix and flip and bridge loans, you can kind of see that there is a loan for most every investment scenario, and there's no reason to rely on only one type, a flipper. Might start with a short term fix and flip loan or a bridge loan and then later refinance to a DSCR or a conventional loan. So consider mixing and matching based on your needs. You're listening to get rich education. We're talking with Ridge leninger, President Taylor Ridge, more when we come back, including steps for more advanced investors, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold   Keith Weinhold  31:06   mid south homebuyers with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone, headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with a better business bureau and 4000 houses renovated. There is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW Mid South. Enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's mid southhomebuyers.com    Keith Weinhold  32:08   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds. Don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest, start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre or GRE, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly again. 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  33:19   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, start your pre qual and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Blair Singer  33:53   this is Rich Dad, sales advisor, Blair singer. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold. And above all, don't quit your Daydream.    Keith Weinhold  34:09   Welcome back to get rich education chili when we go beyond this beginner stage that we've been discussing, how about for an investor just trying to scale to 10 doors worth of one to four unit properties. Now, are there any strategies there or more of a loan order that you would recommend in getting up to your first 10 you know   Caeli Ridge  34:29   I think the strategy starts with calling your lender, ideally Ridge lending group, and having that deep strategy call that, that discovery call, so that we can really understand and plant some seeds that say, Okay, Mr. Jones, these are your qualifications today. This is where you want to be in a year or 10 years. These are the steps that are going to be important that we are mindful of and we take to accomplish and reach those milestones. It's really important to have that baseline understanding of what is your debt to income ratio on day one, what are your assets? Sets. What is your credit? Where do you want to be in a year or 10 years? Right? Do you want 10 properties in a year's time? It's going to be a very different conversation than if you're going to slow roll this and want to establish 10 purchases or 10 investment properties over 10 years. So identifying those details is going to be part one, and then next, in terms of order, I would say, largely the higher price point properties, typically, I would say, put those in one through six. And the reason that I'm saying that is is that the underwriting guidelines under conventional financing, they will change based on how many finance properties you have. So of all of the inner working guidelines and things that go into securing a conventional mortgage loan, the three top most heavily weighted are going to be debt to income ratio, credit score and assets. Okay? And within each one of those, the marker or the qualification guideline changes as you evolve and acquire more property. So the higher up the ring you go, or the rung that you go to 10, the more restrictive the guidelines are going to be. So I would typically say, get the higher price point properties go into maybe one to four, one to six, if that's part of your strategy and your diversification of portfolio ownership. Then after you've established having two or three or four properties and that higher price point it as it gets harder to qualify, potentially, if your debt to income ratio is a little bit tight, you've got the smaller loan sizes that might be less impactful in debt to income ratio. All of this is very subjective to the individual's qualifications and needs, of course, but that might be one rule of thumb that I would take   Keith Weinhold  36:39   gosh, this This is absolute gold in helping you structure the architecture of a growing income property portfolio. And we're coming up on this Super Bowl, and whatever mortgage lender advertises for the Super Bowl or has some big, splashy campaign nationally, you know they are not the ones that are going to have conversations like this for you, they might be fine for buying a primary residence, but this is why you want to have a long term strategy and work with a lender that's aligned with you on exactly that sort of thing. And Chaley, is there a specific way in which one can avoid hitting the Fannie Freddie loan ceilings too early if you haven't already touched on it.    Caeli Ridge  37:22   Yeah, very good question. You know, I think that this is going to come down to a debt to income ratio conversation. It's easy enough to ensure that we contain assets and credit. Those are easier conversations. The debt to income ratio is the piece that's more complicated and can get away from an investor without them even knowing it. You don't know what you don't know, right? So I would say that debt to income ratio and making sure that your lender again, hopefully Ridge lending, because we know this like we know our own faces, making sure they know how to structure and provide feedback and consult on that schedule E, part of the beauty of real estate investing is the tax deductions. Right? Many people get into real estate investing, not for the cash flow, not even for the appreciation, but for that tax strategy, because they're high wage earners, or whatever it may be, and they're sick of paying x in taxes. So the debt to income ratio is key in scaling and making sure you can continue to qualify for those loans. The conversations that we have with our clients really go deep about where we can maximize our deductions to ensure that we get the tax benefit without precluding our qualification on a conventional underwriting basis in the DTI category.   Keith Weinhold  38:35   Now, during my growth as an investor, when I got above 10 doors, one gets above 20 doors. When one gets to 216 doors, I began where I needed to qualify more on a DSCR basis, where the lender is looking at the properties qualification, more so than me. So are there any other thoughts with regard to how one can set themselves up for success in really going big and well beyond 10 doors   Caeli Ridge  39:03   absolutely so once we've exhausted the Fannie Freddie, and I think one of the real value adds about Ridge is that we are not a one size fits all, and we are extremely holistic versus transactional. So having that first conversation and understanding what those goals are, so that we can pivot as we need to maximize the golden tickets, whether that be 10 to 20, right? If you're in a marriage or a partnership or whatever, and then setting up for the DSCR loans when the time comes, and taking advantage of those, there is no limit to how many DSCR loans we can get for one individual. We have yet to file an individual that we've had to say no, and we've done quite a few of the high, high acquisition investors, so I don't expect that to be an issue, but yeah, I think it's about planning, planting those seeds, creating roadmaps together and have those smart discovery conversations.   Keith Weinhold  39:50   Now, as you grow, one way you might diversify is to have perhaps at least a part of your portfolio in short term rentals. So what I. Comes to getting loans for sort of Airbnb or VRBO type properties. What does one look for there? How much does the landscape change versus the longer term rentals that we've mostly been talking about here?    Caeli Ridge  40:10   Yeah, I think that the differences are going to be about purchase versus refinance. If we're just talking about purchases, let's kind of try to keep it in one lane. If we're talking about purchasing a short term rental, you may be limited on leverage. You might lose a little bit of leverage, 5% let's say you could get to 75% and maybe on a short term they're going to back it off to 70% LTV, so there may be reduction in that loan to value. And the way in which we're going to quantify the income is absolutely important to share with your listeners on a purchase transaction, we have access to things like an appraisal. An appraisal is going to give us some median rental income, whether it be long term or short term, that we will use to offset a new mortgage payment if that's needed for the individual's debt to income ratio qualification. Now, if they don't need the rental income to qualify, then it's a non issue. But if they do, like most of us, need that rental income to absorb this new mortgage payment that we are securing for them, how that's going to quantify is important. So if it's not in a short term rental area, let's just say it's kind of off the beaten path, and there may not be enough data points to support the income that you need. It's important to know that up front versus way down the rabbit hole, when you paid for appraisals and you're all the way through the transaction and earnest money might be off the table if you had to cancel that kind of thing. So really important to understand the numbers in advance, I would say, when we talk about short term rentals and how the income is going to be quantified from an underwriting perspective,   Keith Weinhold  41:43   why does a borrower often need to make a higher down payment on a short term rental than they do a long term rental?   Caeli Ridge  41:49    You know, I think that in secondary markets, as we talk about mortgage backed securities and things like that, it's looked at as a higher risk. A short term rental is going to be a higher risk than just the stable long term, long burn tenant is going to be there and they've got their lease for a year, two years or whatever, at a time, the short term rental is more volatile and it's seasonal. It can be I mean, there's all those different factors, so higher risk means more skin in the game for the investor.   Keith Weinhold  42:13   That makes a lot of sense. Does that higher risk also translate into a higher mortgage rate for short term rentals than long term rentals?   Caeli Ridge  42:18    Fannie Freddie versus DSCR The answer is no. On the Fannie Freddie side, the interest rate's not going to change on a DSCR loan. Yes, it can be slightly higher, usually about about a quarter of a percentage point on a short term versus a long term.   Keith Weinhold  42:33   Now, are there any particular markets that lenders want to avoid with short term rental loans?   Caeli Ridge  42:39   No, as long as the property is habitable, and all the other metrics fit Qualifications and Credit and assets and all that stuff. No, there isn't a market that we're going to have any issues with now. We do get the notifications for natural disaster areas, and as that relates to the appraisal and things like that, if it's in a natural disaster area or zone, we may have to hold funding until after the disaster is over, and then we can go and take more pictures and make sure it's still standing and there's no major issues. But otherwise, aside from that, as long as it's habitable, no, there is no market restriction.   Keith Weinhold  43:12   Yes, with that variability of income for short term rentals, you can understand how a lender would be more careful in making a loan, and would want you, the borrower, to put more skin in the game for a short term rental. Well, Caeli, overall, what should an investor do in the next 24 hours to make themselves more lendable before contacting someone like you?   Caeli Ridge  43:36   I would say the answer is sticky, but call rich lending group. That's how you're going to make yourself more lendable. And the reason that I can say that is is that everybody's qualifications and needs and goals are inherently different. So calling someone that understands this landscape and can navigate the battleship in the creek like I like to say, that's the visual aid for those of you that need the visual is the first key. And with that conversation, we're going to be able to identify for you specifically what you would need to do to become more lendable. And it may be nothing   Keith Weinhold  44:07   well over there, Chaley, you're growing. You do loans in almost all 50 states. The GRE podcast has more than 5.8 million listener downloads, and you have helped countless GRE listeners acquire smart investor loans for fully a decade now. Just amazing. So talk to us about all of the loan types that you offer investors there at ridge.   Caeli Ridge  44:30   My gosh. Okay, so I think one of the real value adds for us is that we have such a diverse menu of loan products. We touched on a few of them already. So we've got the conventional Fannie Mae Freddie, Mac stuff. We've got our DSCR loans. We have bank statement loans, asset depletion loans. I can touch on those if you want. Keith, we have our short term bridge fix and flip. We have our All In One my favorite, first lien, HELOC we have second lien HELOCs. We have commercial loan products, and commercial can apply to residential and commercial property. A cross collateralization, commercial for residential properties. That just means, if you're putting 10 single families into one blanket loan, that would be cross collateralization, or if you're buying a storage unit that's straight commercial, and probably even more than that, ground up construction, there's really not a limit to the loan products that we offer, specifically for investors. The only thing we don't have, I would say in our arsenal is bare land loans. Those are hard to come by   Keith Weinhold  45:24   It sounds like you recommend a call in order to get some of that back and forth, to learn how you can best help that investor. But tell us about all the ways that someone   Caeli Ridge  45:32   can get a hold of you. Yes, there's a few ways. Of course, our website, ridgeline group.com, you can call us toll free at 855-747434385, 747-434-3855, 74, Ridge. Or feel free to email us info at Ridge lending group.com   Keith Weinhold  45:49   and you might get lucky. Hey, spin the wheel. Chaele does get on the phone and talk to individual investors herself too. So Chaley, it's been valuable as always to cover all these different loan types for beginners, and then what one does when they advance beyond that. It's been great having you back on the show.    Caeli Ridge  46:09   Thank you, Keith. I appreciate you.   Keith Weinhold  46:16   Oh yeah, a lot to learn from Chaley today. You've got mortgage rates three quarters to 1% lower than they were a year ago. At this time, in fact, last month, they ticked below 6% for the first time in years, and their lowest level in over three years. But when you introduce geopolitical uncertainty, well, that tends to make rates tick up again. Now, just what does happen when you have a lower overall rate trend like we have? Well, in this cycle, it's already spurred an increase in housing sales volume. It surged to 4.3 5 million in the latest reporting month, and that is the hottest annualized pace in nearly three years. Some of the same people who said, wait until rates fall, they're about to realize that prices didn't wait. Demand comes back fast. Inventory doesn't if mortgage rates take another leg lower, we could see quite a refinance wave in balanced markets or in supply constrained markets, bidding wars could follow. Now I've shared with you before that I totally do not predict interest rates. I don't know if anyone should. It is a great way to be fantastically wrong and supremely waste a lot of people's time. Instead, I think it's more efficacious for you to be able to interpret the signs that can trigger a further rate drop. Those signs are a weak jobs report that tends to bring lower rates because the labor market needs the help. So does softening wage growth, GDP below expectations, inflation continuing to cool, or a pickup in US Treasury demand. These are all signs that can lead to even lower rates. In fact, right now, with already lower rates and higher wages, real estate is more affordable than it's been in about three years, but overall, longer term, yeah, income properties still feel somewhat less affordable. It's less affordable than it was in pre pandemic times. That's for real for US investors, though, affordability is less about the price of the property, it's about whether the property pays for itself and grows your net worth while inflation does the heavy lifting for you, that's why it still works for us as investors. Higher prices don't kill investors inaction during inflation does you're not so much buying a say, 350k property. You're controlling it with 70k while your tenant and inflation do the rest. We don't rely on hope or appreciation. We start with inflation, tax benefits and debt pay down, and then appreciation typically happens too. A lot of times, the question for us goes beyond whether or not a property is affordable. The question is whether owning an investment property is better than inflation compounding against us, which is an investor mindset for this era, Ridge landing gear. President Chaley Ridge is a regular guest here because the mortgage space is so dynamic and things change a lot. For that reason, we expect to have her with us every few months this year, I'll see you next week. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  50:01   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  50:30   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, getricheducation.com   

Keith challenges the usual "overpopulated vs. underpopulated" debate and shows why that's the wrong way to think about demographics—especially if you're a real estate investor. Listeners will hear about surprising global population comparisons that flip common assumptions.  Why raw population numbers don't actually explain housing shortages or rent strength. How household formation, aging, and migration really drive demand for rentals. Which kinds of markets tend to see persistent housing pressure—and why the US has a long‑term demographic edge. You'll come away seeing population headlines very differently, and with a clearer lens for spotting where future housing demand is most likely to show up. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/590 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com  Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, is the world overpopulated or underpopulated? Also is the United States over or underpopulated? These are not just rhetorical questions, because I'm going to answer them both. Just one of Africa's 54 nations has more births than all of Europe and Russia combined. One US state has seen their population decline for decades. This is all central to housing demand today. On get rich education   Keith Weinhold  0:36   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Speaker 1  1:21   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:31   Welcome to GRE from Norfolk Virginia to Norfolk, Nebraska and across 188 nations worldwide, you are inside. Get rich education. I am the GRE founder, Best Selling Author, longtime real estate investor. You can see my written work in Forbes and the USA Today, but I'm best known as the host of this incomprehensibly slack John operation that you're listening to right now. My name is Keith Weinhold. You probably know that already, one reason that we're talking about underpopulated versus overpopulated today is that also one of my degrees is in geography and demography, essentially, is human geography, and that's why this topic is in my wheelhouse. It's just a humble bachelor's degree, by the way, if a population is not staying stable or growing, then demand for housing just must atrophy away. That's what people think, but that is not true. That's oversimplified. In some cases. It might even be totally false. You're going to see why. Now, Earth's population is at an all time high of about 8.2 billion people, and it keeps growing, and it's going to continue to keep growing, but the rate of growth is slowing now. Where could all of the people on earth fit? This is just a bit of a ridiculous abstraction in a sense, but I think it helps you visualize things. Just take this scenario, if all the humans were packed together tightly, but in a somewhat realistic way, in a standing room only way, if every person on earth stood shoulder to shoulder, that would allow about 2.7 square feet per person, they would sort of be packed like a subway car. Well, they could fit in a square, about 27 kilometers on one side, about 17 miles on each side of that square. Now, what does that mean in real places that is smaller than New York City, about half the size of Los Angeles County and roughly the footprint of Lake Tahoe? So yes, every human alive today could physically fit inside one midsize us metro area. This alone tells you something important. The world's problem is certainly not a lack of space. Rather, it's where people live and not how many there are. So that was all of Earth's inhabitants. Now, where could all Americans fit us residents using the same shoulder to shoulder assumption, and the US population by mid year this year is supposed to be about 350,000,00349 that's a square about five and a half kilometers, or 3.4 miles on each side. And some real world comparisons there are. That's about half of Manhattan, smaller than San Francisco and roughly the size of Disney World, so every American could fit into a single small city footprint. And if you're beginning to form an early clue that we are not overpopulated globally, yes, that's the sense that you Should be getting.     Keith Weinhold  5:01   now, if you're in Bangladesh, it feels overpopulated there. They've got 175 million people, and that nation is only the size of Iowa. In area, Bangladesh is low lying and typhoon prone. They get a lot of flooding, which complicates their already bad sanitation problems and a dense population like that, and that creates waterborne diseases, and it's really more of an infrastructure problem in a place like Bangladesh than it is a population problem. Then Oppositely, you've got Australia as much land as the 48 contiguous states, yet just 27 million people in Australia, and only 1/400 as many people as Bangladesh in density. Now we talk about differential population. About 80% of Americans live in the eastern half of the US. But yet, the East is not overpopulated because we have sufficient infrastructure, and I've got some more mind blowing population stats for you later, both world and us. Now, as far as is the world overpopulated or underpopulated, which is our central question, depending on who you ask and where they live, you're going to hear completely different answers. Some people are convinced that the planet is bursting at the seams. Others warn that we're headed for a population collapse. But here's the problem, that question overpopulated or underpopulated, it's the wrong question. It's the wrong framing, especially if you're into real estate, because housing demand doesn't respond to total headcount or global averages or scary demographic headlines. Housing demand responds to where people live, how old they are, and how they form households. And once you understand this, a lot of things suddenly begin to make sense, like why housing shortages persist, why rents stay high, even when affordability feels stretched, why some states struggle while others boom, and why population headlines often mislead investors.   Keith Weinhold  7:20   So today I want to reframe how you think about population and connect it directly to housing demand, both globally and right here in the United States. And let's start with the US, because that's probably where you invest.    Keith Weinhold  7:33   Here's a simple fact that should confuse people, but usually doesn't, the United States has below replacement fertility. I'll talk about fertility rates a little later. They're similar to birth rates, meaning that Americans are not having enough children to replace the population naturally and without immigration, the US population would eventually shrink, and yet in the US, we have a housing shortage, rising rents, tight vacancy and a lot of metros and persistent demand for rental housing, which could all seem contradictory. Now, if population alone determine housing demand, well, then the US really shouldn't have any housing shortage at all, but it does so clearly, population alone is not the main driver, and really that contradiction is like your first clue that most demographic conversations are just missing the point. Aging does not reduce housing demand. The way that people think a misconception really is that an aging population automatically reduces housing demand. It does not, in fact, just the opposite. If a population is too young, well, that tends to kill housing demand, and that's because five year old kids and 10 year old kids do not form their own household. Instead, what an aging population often does is change the type of housing that's demanded, like seniors aging in place, some of them downsizing. Seniors living alone. Sometimes after a spouse passes away, others relocating closer to health care or to family. So aging can increase unit demand even if population growth slows. So already, we've broken two myths here. Slower population doesn't mean weaker housing demand, and aging doesn't mean fewer housing units are needed. Now let's explain why. Really, the core idea that unlocks everything is that people don't live inside, what are called Population units. They live in households. You are one person. That does not mean that your dwelling is then one population unit. That's not how that works. You are part of a household, whether that's a house a Household of one person or five or 11 people, housing demand is driven by the number of households, the type of households and where those households are forming, not by raw population totals. So the same population can have wildly different demand. Just think about how five people living together in one home, that's one housing unit, those same five people living separately, that is five housing units, same population, five times the housing demand. And this is why population statistics alone are almost useless for real estate investors, you need to know how people are living, not just how many there are. The biggest surge in housing demand happens when people leave their parents' homes or when they finish school or when they start working, or you got big surges in housing demand when people marry or when they separate or divorce. So in other words, adults create housing demand and children don't. And this is why a country with a youngish, working age population, oh, then they can have exploding housing demand. A country with high birth rates, but low household formation can have overcrowding without profitable housing growth. So it's not about babies, it's about independent adults, and what quietly boosts housing demand, then is housing fragmentation. Yeah, fragmentation. That's a trend that really doesn't get enough attention, and that is the trend, households are fragmenting, meaning more single adults later marriage, like I was talking about in a previous episode. Recently, higher divorce rates, more people living alone and older adults living independently, longer. Each one of those trends increases housing demand without adding any population whatsoever. When two people split up, they often need two housing units instead of one, and if you've got one adult living alone, that is full unit demand right there. So that's why housing demand can rise even when population growth slows or stalls for housing demand. What matters more than births is migration. And another key distinction is that, yes, births matter, but they're on somewhat of this 20 year delay and migration matters immediately, right now. So see, when a working age adult moves, they need housing right away. They typically rent first. They cluster near jobs, and they don't bring housing supply along with them. They've got to get it from someone else. Hopefully you in your rental unit.    Keith Weinhold  12:57   This is why migration is such a powerful force in rental markets, and you see me talk about migration on the show, and you see me send you migration maps in our newsletter. It's also why housing pressure shows up unevenly. It gets concentrated around opportunity. If you want to know the future, look at renters. Renters are the leading indicator, not homeowners and not birth rates. See renters create housing demand faster than homeowners, because renters form households earlier. They can do it quickly because they don't need down payments. Renters move more frequently and immigration overwhelmingly starts in rentals, fresh immigrants rarely become homeowners, so even when mortgage rates rise or home purchases slow or affordability headlines get scary, rental demand can stay strong. It's not a mystery, it's demographics. So births surely matter, but only over the long term. It's like how I've shared with you in a previous episode that the US had a lot of births between 1990 and 2010 those two decades, a surge of births more than 4 million every single one of those years during those two decades, with that peak birth year at 2007 but see a bunch of babies being born in 2007 Well, that didn't make housing demand surge, since infants don't buy homes. But if you add, say, 20 years to 2007 when those people start renting, oh, well, that rental demand peaks in 2027 or maybe a little after that, and since the first time, homebuyer age is now 40. If that stays constant, well, then native born homebuyer demand won't peak until 2047 so when it comes to housing demand, the important thing to remember is migration has an immediate effect and births have a delayed effect.    Keith Weinhold  15:02   and I'm going to talk more about other nations shortly, but the US has two major migration forces working simultaneously, domestic and international migration. I mean, Americans move a lot, although not as much as they used to, and people move for jobs, for taxes, for weather, for cost of living and for lifestyle. So this creates state level winners and losers, and Metro level housing pressure and rent growth in those destination markets and national population averages totally hide this. So that's domestic migration. And then on the international migration. The US has a long history, hundreds of years now on, just continually attracting working age adults from around the world. This matters immensely, because they arrive ready to work, and they form households quickly. They overwhelmingly rent first. They concentrate in metros, and this props up rental demand before it ever shows up in home prices. And this is why investors often feel the rent pressure first those rising rents.    Keith Weinhold  16:17   I've got more straight ahead, including Nigeria versus Europe, and what about the overpopulation straining the environment? If you like, episodes that explain why housing behaves the way it does, rather than just reacting to the headlines. You'll want to be on my free weekly newsletter. I break down demographics, housing, demand, inflation, investor trends and real estate strategy in plain English, often complemented with maps. You can join free at greletter.com that's gre letter.com   Keith Weinhold  16:53   mid south homebuyers with over two decades as the nation's highest rated turnkey provider, their empathetic property managers use your return on investment as their North Star. It's no wonder smart investors line up to get their completely renovated income properties like it's the newest iPhone headquartered in Memphis, with their globally attractive cash flows, mid south has an A plus rating with the Better Business Bureau and 4000 houses renovated. There is zero markup on maintenance. Let that sink in, and they average a 98.9% occupancy rate with an industry leading three and a half year average renter term. Every home they offer you will have brand new components, a bumper to bumper, one year warranty, new 30 year roofs. And wait for it, a high quality renter in an astounding price range, 100 to 150k GET TO KNOW mid south enjoy cash flow from day one at mid southhomebuyers.com that's midsouthhomebuyers.com   Keith Weinhold  17:54   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989Yep. Text their freedom coach directly again. 1937795, 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  19:05   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Chris Martenson  19:37   this is peak prosperity. Is Chris Martinson. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  19:53   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and this is episode 590 yes, we're in my Geography wheelhouse today, as I'm talking human geography and demographics with how it relates to housing, while answering our central question today is the world and the US overpopulated or underpopulated? And now that we understand some mechanics here, let's go global. Here's one of the most mind bending stats in all of demographics. Are you ready for this? When you hear this, it's going to have you hitting up chat, GPT, looking it up. It's going to be so astonishing. So jaw dropping. Every year, Nigeria has more births than all of Europe plus all of Russia combined. Would you talk about Willis?   Keith Weinhold  20:47   Yeah, yes, you heard that, right? Willis, that's what I'm talking about. Willis. The source of that data is, in fact, from the United Nations. Yes, Nigeria has seven and a half million births every year. Compare that to all of Europe plus Russia combined, they only have about 6.3 million births per year. So you're telling me that today, just one West African nation, and there are 54 nations in Africa. Just one West African nation produces more babies than the entire continent of Europe, with all of its nations plus all of Russia, the largest world nation by area. Yes, that is correct. One country in Africa produces more babies every year than France, Germany, Italy, Spain, the UK, all of Europe, including all the Eastern European nations, and all of Russia combined. This is a demographic reality, and now you probably already know that less developed nations, like Nigeria have higher birth rates than wealthier, more developed ones like France or Switzerland. I mean, that's almost common knowledge, but something that people think about less is that poorer nations also have a larger household size, which sort of makes sense when you think about it. In fact, Nigeria has five persons per household. Spain has two and a half, and the US also has that same level two and a half. That one difference alone explains why population growth and housing demand are completely different stories now, the US had 3.3 people per household in 1950 and it's down to that two and a half today. That means that even if the population stayed the same, the housing demand would rise. And this is evidence of what I talked about before the break, that households are fragmenting within the US. You can probably guess which state has the largest household size due to their Mormon population. It's Utah at 3.1 the smallest is Maine at 2.3 they have an older population. In fact, Maine has America's oldest population. And as you can infer with what you've learned now, the fact that they have just 2.3 people per household means that if their populations were the same. Maine would need more housing units than Utah. By the way, if you're listening closely at times, I have referred to the United States as simply America. Yes, I am American. You are going to run into some people out there that don't like it. When US residents call themselves Americans, they say something like, Hey, you need a geography lesson. America runs from Nunavut all the way down to Argentina. Here's what to tell them. No, look, there are about 200 world nations. There is only one that has the word America in it, that is the United States of America that usually makes them lighten up. That is why I am an American, not a Peruvian or Bolivian, and there's no xenophobic connotation whatsoever. There are more productive things to think about moving on. Why births matter is because births today become future workers, renters, consumers and even migrants. But not evenly. Young populations move toward a few things. They're attracted to capital. They move towards stability. They're attracted to opportunity, and young populations move toward infrastructure. That's not ideology, that's the gravity and the US remains one of the strongest gravity wells on Earth, a big magnet, a big attractant. Now it's sort of interesting. I know a few a People that believe that the world is indeed overpopulated, they often tend to be environmental enthusiasts, and the environment is a concern, for sure, but how big of a concern is it? That's the debatable part. And you know, it's funny, I've run into the same people that think that the world is overpopulated, they seem to lament at school closures. You see more school closures because just there weren't as many children that were born after the global financial crisis. And these people that are afraid we have an overpopulation problem call school closures a sad phenomenon. They think it's sad. Well, if you want a shrinking population, then you're going to see a lot more than just schools close so many with environmental concerns, though. The thing is, is that they seem to discount the fact that humans innovate. More than 200 years ago, Thomas Malthus, he famously failed. He wrote a book, thinking that the global population would exceed what he called his carrying capacity, meaning that we wouldn't be able to feed everybody. He posited that, look, this is a problem. Populations grow exponentially, but food production only grows linearly. But he was wrong, because, due to agricultural innovation, we have got too many calories in most places. Few people thought this many humans could live in the United States, Sonoran and Mojave deserts, that's Phoenix in Las Vegas, respectively. But our ability to recycle and purify water allows millions of people to live there. So my point about running out of resources is that history shows us that humans are a resource ourselves, and we keep finding ways to innovate, or keep finding ways to actually not need that rare earth element or whatever it is now, if the earth warms too much from human related activity, can we cool it off again? And how much of a problem is this? I am not sure, and that goes beyond the scope of our show. But the broader point here is that history shows us that humans keep figuring things out, and that is somewhat of an answer to those questions. The world is not overpopulated, it is unevenly populated. Some regions are young, others are growing, others are capital constrained, and then other regions are aging, shrinking and capital rich. And that very imbalance right there is what fuels migration and fuels labor flows and fuels housing demand in destination countries and the US benefits from this imbalance. Unlike almost anywhere else in the world, it's a demographic magnet. Yes, you do have some smaller ones out there, like Dubai, for example.    Keith Weinhold  28:04   But why? Why do we keep attracting immigrants? Well, we've got strong labor markets, capital availability, property rights, economic mobility, and US has existing housing stock. Countries today don't just compete for capital, they're competing for people. In the US keeps attracting working age adults, and that is exactly the demographic that creates housing demand, and this is why long term housing demand in the US is more resilient than a lot of people think. In fact, the US population of about 350 million. This year, it's projected to peak at about 370 million, near 2080 and of course, the big factor that makes that pivot is that level of immigration. So that's why the population projections vary now. The last presidential administration allowed for a lot of immigrants. The current one few immigrants, and the next one, nobody knows. You've got a group called the falconist party that calls for increased legal immigration into the US. Yeah, they want to allow more migrants into the country, but yet they want to enforce illegal immigration. That sounds just like it's spelled, F, A, L, C, O, N, i, s, t, the falconist Party, but the us's magnetic effect to keep driving population growth through immigration is key, because you might already know that 2.1 is the magic number you need a fertility rate of at least 2.1 to maintain a population fertility rate that is the average number of children that a woman is expected to have over her lifetime. And be sure you don't confuse these numbers with the earlier numbers of people per. Per household, like I discussed earlier, although higher fertility rates are usually going to lead to more people per household, India's fertility rate is already down to 2.0 Yes, it is the most populated nation in the world, but since women, on average, only have two children, India is already below replacement fertility. The US and Australia are each at 1.6 Japan is just 1.2 China's is down to 1.0 South Korea's is at an incredibly low seven tenths of one, so 0.7 in South Korea, and then Nigeria's is still more than four. So among all those that I mentioned, only Nigeria is above the replacement rate of 2.1 and most of the nations above that rate are in Africa. Israel is a big outlier at 2.9 you've got others in the Middle East and South Asia that are above replacement rate as well. And when I say things like it's still up there, that whole still thing refers to the fact that there is this tendency worldwide for society to urbanize and have fewer children. For those fertility rates to keep falling. And that's why the future population growth is about which nations attract immigrants, and that is the US. Is huge advantage. Now there's a great way to look at where future births are going to come from. A way to do this is consider your chance of being born on each continent in the year 2100 This is interesting. In the year 2100 a person has a 48% chance of being born in Africa, 38% in South Asia, in the Middle East, 5% South America, 5% in Europe or Russia, 4% in North America, and less than 1% in Australia. Those are the chances of you being born on each of those continents in the year 2100 and that sourced by the UN.   Keith Weinhold  32:09   the world population is, as I said earlier, about 8.2 billion, and it's actually expected to peak around the same time that the US population is in the 2080s and that'll be near 10 point 3 billion. All right, so both the world and the US population should rise for another 50 to 60 years. Let's talk about population winners and losers inside the US. I mean, this is where population conversations really become useful for investors, because population doesn't matter nationally that much. It really matters locally, unevenly and sometimes it almost feels unfairly. So let me give you some perspective shifting stats. I think I shared with you when I discussed new New York City Mayor Zoran Manami here on the show a month or two ago, that the New York City Metro Area has over 20 million people, nearly double the combined population of Arizona and Nevada together, yes, just one metro area, the same as Two entire sparsely populated states. So when someone says people are leaving New York I mean that tells you almost nothing, unless you know where they're going. How many are still arriving in New York City to replace those leaving, and how many households are still forming inside that Metro? The household formation so scale matters, however, net, people are not leaving New York. New York City recently had more in migration than any other US Metro. Some states are practically empty. Alaska or take Wyoming. Wyoming has fewer than 600,000 people in the entire state. That's fewer people than a lot of single US cities. That's only about six people per square mile. In Wyoming, that's about the population of one midsize Metro suburb. Now, when someone says the US has plenty of land in a lot of cases, they're right. I mean, just look out the window when you fly over Wyoming or the Dakotas. But people don't really live where land is cheap. They actually don't want to. Most of the time. They live where jobs, incomes and their networks already exist. You know, the wealthy guy that retires to Wyoming and it has a 200 acre ranch is an outlier. There's a reason he can sprawl out and make it 200 acres. There's virtually nobody there. Let's understand too that population loss, that doesn't mean that demand is gone, but it does change the rules, especially when you think about a place like West Virginia. They have lost population in most decades since the 1950s and incredibly, their population is lower today than it was in 1930 we're talking about West Virginia statewide. They have an aging population. West Virginia has an outmigration of young adults. So this doesn't mean that no real estate works in West Virginia, but it means that appreciation stories are fragile. Income matters more than equity. Growth and demographics are a headwind, not a tailwind. That's a very different investment posture than where you usually want to be. It's important to understand that a handful of metros, just a handful, are absorbing massive national growth. And here's something that a lot of investors underestimate. About half of all US, population growth flows into fewer than 15 metro areas, and it's not just New York City, Houston, Miami, but smaller places like Jacksonville, Austin and Raleigh, and that really helps pump their real estate market. So that means demand concentrates, housing pressure intensifies, and rent growth becomes pretty sticky, unless you wildly overbuild for a short period of time like Austin did, and this is why some metros just feel perpetually tight over the long term, and others feel permanently sluggish. Population does not spread evenly. It piles up. In fact, Texas is a great case in point here. Understand that Texas is adding people faster than some entire nations do. Texas alone adds hundreds of 1000s of residents per year in strong cycles. Some years, they do add more people than entire small countries, more than several Midwest states combined. And of course, they don't spread evenly across Texas. They cluster in DFW, Houston, Austin and San Antonio, so pretty much the Texas triangle, and that clustering fact is everything for housing demand, yet at the same time, there are fully 75 Texas counties that are losing population, typically out in West Texas. Then there's Florida. Florida isn't just growing. It's replacing people. Florida's growth. It's not just net positive, it's replacement migration, and it's across all different types and ages. You've got retirees arriving, you've got young workers arriving, you've got young households forming, and you've got seniors aging in place. So this way, among a whole spectrum of ages, you've got demand for rentals, workforce housing, age specific, housing and multifamily all in Florida, and this is why Florida housing demand over the long term is not going to cool off the way that a few skeptics expect. Now, of course, some areas did temporarily overbuild in Florida in the years following the pandemic. Yes, that's led to some temporary Florida home price attrition, but that is going to be absorbed. California did not empty out. It reshuffled now. There were some recent years where California lost net population, but here's what that hides. Some metros lost residents. Others stayed flat. You had some income brackets that left California and others arrived. In fact, California has slight population growth today overall, so housing demand definitely did not vanish. It shifted within the state and then outward to nearby states, and that's how Arizona, Nevada and Texas benefited. But overall, California's population count, really, it's just pretty steady, not declining.   Keith Weinhold  39:05   population density. It's that density that predicts rent pressure better than growth rates. Do something really important for real estate investors. Dense metros absorb shocks better. They have less elastic housing supply, and they see faster rent rebounds. Sparse areas have cheaper land and easier supply expansion and weaker rent resilience. So that's why rents snap back faster in dense metros, and oversupply hurts more in spread out to regions. Density matters more than raw growth does. Shrinking states can still have tight housing I mean, some states lose population overall, but yet they still have housing shortages in certain metros, and you'll have tight rental markets near job centers, and you've got strong demand In limited sub markets, even if the state is shrinking. And I think you know this is why the slower growing Northeast and Midwest, they've had the highest home price appreciation in the past two years. There's not enough building there. If your population falls 1% but the available housing falls 2% well, you can totally get into a housing shortage situation, and that bids up real estate prices. And when people look at population charts on the state level, a lot of times, they still get misled. When you buy an investment property, you don't buy a state, you buy a specific market within it, so the United States is not full it is lopsided. The US is not overpopulated. It is heavily clustered. It's unevenly dense, and it's really driven by migration. And perhaps a better way to say it is that the US population is really opportunity concentrated housing demand follows jobs, networks, wages and migration flows. It sure does not follow empty land. And really the investor takeaway is, is that when you hear population stats, don't put too much weight on the question, is the population rising or falling? Although that's something you certainly want to know. Some better questions to ask are, where are households forming? Where are adults moving? Where is supply constrained? And where does income support, rent like those are, what four big questions there, because population alone does not create housing demand. It's households under constraint that do so. Our big arching overall question is the world overpopulated or underpopulated? The answer is neither. The world is unevenly populated. It's unevenly aged, and it's unevenly governed. And for real estate investors, the lesson is simple. You don't invest in population counts, you invest in household formation, age structure, migration and supply constraints. Really, that's a big learning summary for you, that's why housing demand can stay strong even when population growth slows. And once you understand that demographic headlines that seem scary aren't as scary, and they start to be more useful. Why I've wanted to do this overpopulated versus underpopulated episode for you for years. I've really thought about it for years. I really hope that you got something useful out of it. Let's be mindful of the context too. When it comes to the classic Adam Smith economics of supply demand, I've only discussed one side today, largely just the demand side and not the supply side so much that would involve a discussion about building and some more things that supply side. Now that I've helped you ask a better question about population and the future of housing demand, you might wonder where you can get better answers. Well, like I mentioned earlier, I provide a lot of that and help you make sense of it, both right here on this show and with my newsletter, geography is something that's more conducive and meaningful to you visually, that's often done with a map, and that's why my letter at greletter.com will help you more if you enjoy learning through maps, just like we've done every year since 2014 I've got 52 great episodes coming to you this year. If you haven't consider subscribing to the show until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  43:57   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively you   Keith Weinhold  44:25   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth, building, get richeducation.com

For many entrepreneurs and investors, financial success often feels harder than it should. Despite tireless work and long hours spent chasing income, they still end up owing a business that runs them rather than the other way around.Today's guest has spent decades helping people break that cycle by shifting how they think about money, assets, and financial freedom itself.Sharon Lechter is a globally recognized financial literacy expert, former CPA, keynote speaker, and five-time New York Times bestselling author. She is best known as the co-author of Rich Dad Poor Dad and 14 additional books in the Rich Dad series, including the transformational Cashflow Quadrant. She's also co-authored many other influential books, including Exit Rich, Three Feet from Gold, and Think and Grow Rich for Women.Sharon has dedicated her career to educating and empowering investors at any level, helping them move from earned income to asset-driven wealth while reclaiming their time. In her newest book, Old Wealth, New Wealth, True Wealth, Sharon offers readers both an inspiring fable and a practical blueprint for crafting a legacy that lasts.In this episode, you'll learn: ✅ Why the purest definition of financial freedom is when asset income exceeds your monthly expenses.✅ How the Cashflow Quadrant was a game changer for Justin and helps entrepreneurs reclaim time and scale faster by making better decisions.✅ Why Sharon's newest mission with IQ Hall helps creators and entrepreneurs maintain ownership and protect their intellectual property while using AI.Show Notes: LifestyleInvestor.com/274Tax Strategy MasterclassIf you're interested in learning more about Tax Strategy and how YOU can apply 28 of the best, most effective strategies right away, check out our BRAND NEW Tax Strategy Masterclass: www.lifestyleinvestor.com/taxStrategy Session For a limited time, my team is hosting free, personalized consultation calls to learn more about your goals and determine which of our courses or masterminds will get you to the next level. To book your free session, visit LifestyleInvestor.com/consultationThe Lifestyle Investor InsiderJoin The Lifestyle Investor Insider, our brand new AI - curated newsletter - FREE for all podcast listeners for a limited time: www.lifestyleinvestor.com/insiderRate & ReviewIf you enjoyed today's episode of The Lifestyle Investor, hit the subscribe button on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you listen, so future episodes are automatically downloaded directly to your device. You can also help by providing an honest rating & review.Connect with Justin DonaldFacebookYouTubeInstagramLinkedInTwitterSee Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Keith Weinhold breaks down how recent presidential housing policies could influence real estate investors and everyday homebuyers.  Then he walks through four different ways to eventually exit your investment properties—including a little-known strategy most investors have never heard of—so you can start thinking about how you'll one day harvest your gains, potentially with minimal or no taxes, while still preserving your wealth and flexibility. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/589 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the presidential administration has made some weighty decisions that could affect the real estate market for years. Then when it's time for you to sell your investment property, there are some smart ways to do it and some big mistakes to avoid. We're talking about four options for your real estate exit strategy, including the little discussed 721 exchange today on get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  0:32   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests and key top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Russell Gray  1:18   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:28   Welcome to GRE you're inside one of America's longest running and most listened to shows on real estate investing. This is Get Rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, if you're working for the weekend, then you had better examine your Monday to Friday and start investing for leverage in income that's generated today. The good news is that down the road, when it comes time for you to sell your investment property, hopefully, after decades of handsome profits, even if that is years away, there are a lot of good options for you, including multiple ones that are tax deferred and effectively tax free. I'll discuss that later today, what we know, and what history has proven, is that savers lose wealth, stock investors maintain wealth, real estate investors build wealth. And I contend that within the discipline of real estate, being the investor is the best job of all of them, because, look, realtors rarely build wealth. Property managers that don't actually own the real estate, they also rarely build wealth. And the people on your maintenance team, they don't build wealth either. Now, as much as we might appreciate all these service professionals, I mean, I sure do this is not meant to disparage them. I'm trying to help you pick the right lane in real estate. Know that you're doing the right thing. Do the right thing before you do things right. By their own admission, the National Association of Realtors, the NAR they will tell you that the median gross income for a realtor is. Do you want to guess? Any guess as to what the median gross income for a realtor is? It is $58,100. that's it.    Keith Weinhold  3:37   And realize that's the figure being reported by the trade organization that represents the industry too licensed sales agents. Median income that's even lower. It is $41,700 also per the NAR I see myself realtors that have been in business 20 years, 30 years, 40 years, and all that time, they have never bought a single investment property for themselves. Instead, a lot of them spend their entire career helping other people get rich while they never get on the treadmill. But do you know what is even crazier to me, crazier than that, it's the number of people that manage properties, including some of my own property managers that I hire, and they don't own any investment real estate themselves. And I think that's crazy, because managers are doing what is one of the toughest jobs in real estate, always having to walk that tightrope, arbitrating between the property owner and the tenant, and as a result, often pleasing nobody. They're sort of like the football referee, the baseball umpire, the property manager they have to deal with The problem tenant. The manager has to bug the tenant to collect the late rent, and then your maintenance people. You know, I just met up with a contractor that's putting new flooring in one of my rentals. He's got a sense of humor, and he wore this great t shirt that says, I'm here because you broke it. I love that. But now his compensation isn't too shabby, but he's trading his time for dollars, and the income stops when his work stops. The lesson is, be the asset owner.    Keith Weinhold  5:35   Now this presidential administration has shaken up a lot of policies, good or bad we've got a bunch of new directives centered on the housing market. And really, this shouldn't come as any sort of surprise, since be mindful, the current White House occupant is a long time New York City Real Estate Investor, some of the more recent weighty moves that can affect you are banning institutional investors from buying single family homes that they turn into rentals, and the other one is a $200 billion bond purchase program aimed at reducing mortgage rates. Okay, whether those two things happen or not, it's good to look at their effect, how they move a real estate market, because when you understand the effects, then you learn a lesson, even if you're listening to this episode 10 years from now, the move to ban institutional investors. We're talking about conglomerate groups like Blackstone and invitation homes. The move to ban them from buying single family rentals is to try to reduce the demand and therefore, hopefully lower the price of single family homes in order to help affordability. Okay, that could work in concept. But here's the other thing that it does, there would be fewer rentals available on the market, because most institutional investors do buy those build to rent properties, that's what they're looking to acquire. So it's sort of what most any real estate investor would want. They would get higher rents and maybe some somewhat lower purchase prices, or at least a lower appreciation rate. But this whole move to ban institutional investors, that is mostly a nothing burger, that's all we're talking about here. And here's why you cannot undo the institutional purchases that were already made, and a lot of those got made, a lot of them during the pandemic. So it would only be banning new purchases. And another important point to consider here is how small this market is. I think these institutional buyers make a whole lot of outsized noise and often get pointed to as the boogeyman for running up prices of real estate. But that's not true. Only about two to 3% of single family rentals are owned by these giant investors, at least the ones that have over 1000 units. Okay, so this all sounds good as a political platitude. You trying to do something about it? I sort of understand that, but this ban, it just would not move the market very much at all now, perhaps a slight move could be triggered in cities that do have a lot of institutional ownership, like Atlanta, Jacksonville, Charlotte, but really little effect. The second directive from the President is having Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac buy $200 billion worth of mortgage bonds. This is really an effort to drive down mortgage rates and bring down monthly payments and make the cost of home ownership more affordable. The translation here for you is that whenever you inject money into something, money tends to flow more freely and rates get lower, kind of lowering the dam wall height, like I have given to you in other examples, when you buy bonds that demand pushes up bond prices, which lowers bond yields. And mortgage rates are tied to those lowered bond yields. And as soon as this was announced, like the very next day, mortgage rates fell into the high fives, yes, under 6% for the first time in three years. But the last thing effect of this that's been studied, and it's been shown to reduce mortgage rates by about three tenths of 1% so not nothing, but sort of small. However, if they're buying down rates like this one time, well then they might do it multiple times. So there you go. There are two recent directives from the president banning institutional investors from buying single family homes and buying mortgage bonds to lower mortgage rates.    Keith Weinhold  10:00   Either one of them with seismic effects. It's sort of like the 50 year mortgage proposal that the administration made a while ago, and that's probably not going to become a reality anytime soon, if ever. Here's a question that I have for you, and I'll let you answer. Do you like free markets, or would you rather have big government? Well, each of these directives are more government intervention into the free market, whether you like that or not. Another way to say it is that stuff like this makes a lot of splashy headlines, but it's not a bigger deal than a Philadelphia Eagles football game,at least. You know how these forces can move markets now    Keith Weinhold  10:46   straight ahead, it's the concise, definitive audio guide to selling your investment property. I'm going to detail four different ways that you can do it in this guide, including tax deferred and effectively, tax free methods. When you're able to defer taxes over and over again throughout your entire life, they effectively become tax free. You never have any tax obligation. Also, I will discuss one way of selling your property that you're probably not familiar with and you might have never heard about before in your life. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to Episode 589 of get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  11:27   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre. Or or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly. Again. 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  12:39   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, start your pre qual and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Russell Gray  13:12   Hi. This is Russell Gray, Main Street capitalist. You're listening to the get rich education show with Keith weinholden. Remember, don't quit your Daydream.    Keith Weinhold  13:20   You welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, and I'm coming to you from Colorado Springs today, where I'm attending the real estate guys create your future goals retreat event, yeah, a goals event allows one to get introspective. One part of it is learning how I can serve you better on this show. Every week, since I do pour a lot of thought into what I share with you here. How much yeah, just, how much did this event mean to me? Well, my team is in the NFL playoffs, and I was willing to miss some playoff football for this.   Speaker 1  14:07    That's inexcusable, inexcusable. Playoffs. Don't talk about playoffs. You kidding me? Playoffs? I just hope we can win a game.   Keith Weinhold  14:19   Yeah, yeah. That is, that is, of course, the classic rant from a former NFL coach, Jim Mora. Maybe Jim needs to attend the goals retreat to put things into perspective here. now, whether it's just a few years from now or it's decades into your future, at some point we're all going to exit the real estate investing game, even if that's not until the day we die. I'll talk about that with whatever endeavor you're in. It is good to begin with. The end In mind. there's a good chance that you're either in real estate acquisition mode now, or you once were. Or where you're going to be in that real estate acquisition mode in the future, but after this accumulation phase of your life, hopefully, which you've turned into financial freedom through real estate, after that, you're going to be in the mode where, since you've already made it, you're going to want to just maintain the portfolio that you have or stop acquiring or you will want to sell eventually. The good news is that there are a lot of good options for selling your property and doing it, tax deferred and effectively tax free. Now I will not talk about selling your primary residence so much, though, this is focused on exiting from your investment property, primary residence sales rules with the IRS is that your first 250k of gain is exempt from capital gains tax if you're single, and your first 500k is shielded from tax if you're married. Quite a marriage incentive there.    Keith Weinhold  15:59   But as we focus on investment properties. This is influenced by a question from one of our older GRE listeners, 62 year old, Mark, who wrote in last year, was such a good question and I answered his question on air last month. I'll basically expand on that answer today. Mark said he has listened to every GRE episode ever, and therefore, congratulations, he made it. He reached financial freedom, and he's got a sizable portfolio. Some of his properties are paid off. Others are leveraged. But see, Mark is hesitant to buy more property because he's already made it his wife doesn't want more properties because she associates it with him having to do more work. Now, when you're still in pursuit of financial freedom, well, you don't mind investing a small slice of your time each month into real estate, a little light management, remotely, maybe, but once your residual income exceeds all of your expenses, well, then at that point, your time is going to start to become more valuable. So let's look at four here, four solid options for exiting your property, and then I'm going to examine the pros and cons of each one. The first of four is simply to sell real estate in the conventional way, just a plain sale to a buyer, where you see that it gets fixed up and you list it and you sell it outright. Well, the pros of this are is that it gets you to your exit, and it also turns your equity into cash. The cons, the downside of doing it this way is that you're going to give up your ongoing stream of income. Your Cash Flow is going to be gone. You might have to remove tenants, depending on your scenario. You have to fix up and stage the home to prepare it for the market. That could be as little as 5k or as much as 50k or more, depending on the size of your real estate, you're going to have to pay a real estate agent a commission of 3% or more and pay capital gains tax of 15% or more. That's one five. And you'll also have to pay depreciation recapture, and of course, you don't have to pay 15% of the total asset value. It's just 15% of the value gain during the time that you held this property, right? So the tax and fix up cost can eat into your profit with this first of four ways to sell your property, although you are still probably in for a pretty nice windfall upon the sale if you've held it for a while. All right, so the first way is a plain sail, and a lot of people would agree that is not the best way to do it. Okay, it gets far better from here. The second sale option that you have is something that a lot of real estate investors like us are familiar with, or have at least heard of, and the general public has not, and that is the 1031 exchange. You'll also hear it be called the 1031 tax deferred Exchange, or the 1031 like kind exchange, because you trade your property up for another property that's kind of like it. It is a hugely powerful wealth building and wealth preservation tool, okay, section 1031, of the IRS tax code that allows an investor to exit a property without incurring any capital gains taxes. That also does not trigger depreciation recapture when you sell your property, but in order for you to get those tax deferred benefits. Importantly, you have to roll your game into another piece of real estate. Now there are a lot of rules and nuances around 1031 ones. I have done multiple 1030 ones in my life, and they are so worth doing and amplifying your wealth, building power I will not cover all the rules and nuances those things like the three properties rule and the 200% rule, and that rule about how you need to identify your replacement property within 45 days and close on it within 180 days, and all of that. Because what I've done is I've completely broken that down on the show with you here previously, and as always, I explained it in the most clear, incoherent way that I could for you. I best did that on episode 143 of get rich education. The name of that episode is your 1031 exchange guide, tax deferral for life. Now, there do get to be some numbers flying around here, so you want to listen closely, you might find yourself skipping back for simple example purposes, in a 1031assume that you bought a $200,000 duplex 20 years ago, and it's now worth 500k you depreciated the value of the duplex every year, as is actually required by the IRS, assuming you took a total of 100k of depreciation over the life of your ownership of it, and you did not make any improvements to it. The basis of your property is then 100k because it's your 200k purchase price, minus 100k in total depreciation write offs. When you sell the property for 500k you now have a gain of 500k minus 100k which is 400k depreciation, recapture and capital gains are not taxed at the same rate, and it depends on some things, but let's assume that your blended tax rate is 20% that means you would owe 20% on your 400k so that would be 80k in taxes if you just did the plain sale. But not many people want to stroke a check to the IRS for 80k so instead, if you take your 400k of gain and roll it into a new property, or properties, you can defer your obligation to pay this 80k. Yes, you do not owe the IRS a thing. Now this is beautiful. You get that tax break virtually nowhere else in the investing world, okay, so what you've now done is that you have exited the property a duplex, in this case, via 1031 exchange, and you've traded it up for another property. So you're still a real estate investor. You have not exited being one of those, but you sold the duplex and replaced it with another property, or properties, all right, that was the second of four sale options, the 1031, exchange, and, yeah, as you can see, there do get to be some numbers flying around, some deep dive learning for you here. And that's why I lightened it up with the Jim Mora clip before we dove in.   Keith Weinhold  22:54   The third way is called refi for life. Now we could almost put an asterisk on this third way, because with a refi for life, it's not a sale of the property at all. What it is is it's really a way for you to sell your equity to a bank yet still retain the property. Therefore, you access capital without triggering any taxes. You get a nice, big windfall payout while you still hold the asset, and it keeps paying you up to five ways at the same time. Yeah, you will also hear this refi for life strategy referred to as other things. Refi till you die, is one way to put it, as equity accumulates, say, every five or 10 years, you just do another cash out refi, enjoy the tax free windfall and keep holding on to the asset that is the same thing. Other names for this repeated series of cash out refis throughout your life that you might hear, which I'm calling refi for life. Those other names are live on leverage, the equity to income strategy, the infinite hold, the generational hold strategy, hold until step up, or you might hear, buy, borrow, never sell. They all mean the same thing. I'm calling it refi for life. Let me give you a simple refi for life. Example, using conservative assumptions, say that today you put a total of 200k down to control $1 million worth of rental property. Your initial loan balance is 800k we'll just say your cash flow is zero. Your property is appreciated 6% per year. After 10 years, your million dollars of property, growing at 6% annually, is worth almost $1.8 million if you refinance a 75% loan to value your new loan, amount is 1.3 5 million you pay off the original 800k loan, that leaves you with raw. 550k of cash out refinance proceeds. Congratulations, you got a windfall, and your 550k is tax, free loan money to you not income, because the IRS says debt is not income, therefore it's not taxed. Yes, and you heard that right. You can do whatever you want with those funds. What you've now done is you pulled out more than two and a half times your original 200k investment. And yes, while you still own the property, you continue to hold this appreciating asset. Tenants keep paying down your debt over time, and inflation keeps working in your favor, all right, and remember, that's only what you did at the 10 year mark. You are not done. It just keeps getting better. Fast forward five more years to the 15 year mark, at 6% appreciation continuing your original Million Dollar Portfolio is now worth about $2.4 million at 75% loan to value that property supports total debt of roughly $1.8 million at this point, your existing loan balance from the prior refinance, it's still that 1.3 5 million so you pay it off with a new loan. This allows you to extract an additional 450k of tax free cash. So add it up. This means at the 10 year mark, you got 550k and then here, at the 15 year mark, you got another 450k across your two refinances combined, you have now pull out a cool million dollars in tax free loan proceeds. That's nearly $1 million of liquid, usable capital from an original 200k investment that you made 15 years ago, without you ever selling the property. You still own. What's worth now $2.4 million worth of property, you've got the million liquid and you still have not triggered any tax at all. So at this stage, you can just live off your million dollars of refinance proceeds, or you can choose to reinvest it into new assets. Or you can selectively pay down your debt to increase your cash flow, or you can simply hold and let inflation continue shrinking the real value of your loans, and let inflation continue to make your properties go up in price, then down the road when you eventually die, your heirs receive a step up in basis largely eliminating capital gains tax. That is just amazing. That is refi for life in plain English. So that is the third of four exit strategies that I'm sharing with you here today. And understand there are a few caveats here. I only went to the 15 year mark, you can keep doing it every five years. Beyond that, it just keeps getting better as leverage compounds the value of what you own. Now I kept it simple for learning purposes in an audio format with you here, you're probably going to have even more equity than those numbers I gave you because I didn't even include the principal pay down that your tenants make for you.    Keith Weinhold  28:26   And let's discuss a few more pros and cons of this refi for life plan. The pros are that you've borrowed, and you've done that with perhaps a home equity line of credit, home equity loan or a second mortgage, you borrowed against the property in perpetuity and get tax free cash. Interest paid on the amount borrowed is tax deductible too. If you don't have enough tax advantages, there's also that you've got zero property sale, transaction friction or risk, you pass along the value of your home or portfolio to heirs on a stepped up basis. What that means, in essence, is when you pass away your depreciation recapture and your capital gains are wiped out, that's what a stepped up basis means. Okay, those were the pros, the cons, the downsides of doing this, and there aren't very many, but it's that it does not get you out of property ownership while you're still alive. If that's what you're looking for, your property cash flow gets reduced when you do a refi because you have a new debt service obligation. However, you've also got incremental rent increases throughout time that could offset that. And the other thing is, think about your heirs. Sometimes heirs find it challenging to divide homes among themselves, so your heirs need to be pretty well educated on related real estate and tax principles. So those are the cons of refi for Life. We're talking about four distinct access strategies for your investment real estate today on get rich education podcast episode 589 I'm your host, Keith Weinhold    Keith Weinhold  30:09   and the fourth way, the least understood and least utilized way, is known as the 721 exchange. And I want to thank a different GRE listener named Nate in California in his acquire to retire blog. It's worth checking out. I want to thank Nate for his contribution here. Nate heard the GRE episode last year about 62 year old. Listener Mark's desire to sell, and that's what got Nate to write in about the 721 exchange, yes, just like the 1031 exchange is named for that particular section of the IRS tax code, it's just the same with the 721 and of all four methods we're discussing today, it's the only one of the four that I have not done myself. So I have studied it how the 721 exchange works is that say you have a case where you're a rental property owner and you realize that you just don't want the hassles of landlording, but you like the financial benefit that the ownership gives you. What you can do is sell your home to a partnership and receive shares in that partnership. The 721 exchange rules stipulate that this is not a taxable event, and therefore no capital gains tax or depreciation recapture are due. Now that you're an owner in the partnership, you still get the benefits of owning the property, like appreciation and cash flow and such, and you get these benefits across a greater number of properties in markets diversification, because you are a fractional owner in the other properties that are in the partnership, not only your own. And when you eventually pass away, your shares are stepped up in basis and can be distributed equally to heirs. And see it is surely easier to divide shares among, say, four children than it is to divide your 31 rental houses among four children, because your four children are all going to have different goals and varying degrees of financial savvy. So the 721 exchange really is a great estate planning tool as well. So you will have this partnership that makes an offer to buy your property. Section 721, of the IRS Code allows a property owner to contribute real estate to a partnership in exchange for partnership units. And of course, you are going to need to learn how to vet the partnership. Now let's look at some of the pros and cons of this. The upside the pros are that it gets you out of being a direct property owner, if that's just something down the road that you don't want to do anymore. No more repair requests or HOAs, property tax bills, insurance bills, vacancies or property improvements. And of course, the hedge against that, I favor using a property manager to take care of that for me, but that is a different topic. But in any case, you also defer paying capital gains tax and depreciation recapture by rolling your equity into a qualified real estate fund. Some more upsides of the 721 are that you get shares in the real estate fund that offers you continued cash flow and possible appreciation. There's often no need for you to pay to fix up or stage the property for sale, no agent commissions to pay. You diversify your risk across multiple markets and properties you get to contribute to, and you sort of become part of a like minded community of real estate investors, and you peripherally stay attached to your real estate, even though you're no longer the direct owner of it. Now, of course, being a direct owner of real estate is where you get both the profits and the control, but again, after a decade, or even 50 Years of direct ownership, you're just choosing to be done with that phase. So the 721 is a permanent solution. There's no sort of next decision, stress or risk. It is done. It is solved. But like I said, the shares are easy to divide among heirs compared to a portfolio of homes. All right, how about the cons the negative of a 721 exchange? Well, you're going to forfeit the ability to borrow against your asset, the refi for life plan that I talked about in the third way you can sell your property. Also you're going to have to pay some onboarding fees or some management fees to the partnership, and you're going to lose future 1031 exchange availability. And that is it. That is the 721 exchange. Again, I want to thank GRE listener, Nate from California, for reaching out to the show, and he's got a great blog. That's what got me to study the 721 exchange some more. This can happen with an up rate. You've probably heard of a REIT before, really.   Keith Weinhold  35:00   Estate Investment Trust and upreet, up r, e, i, t, that is in umbrella partnership. REIT, as investors, we acquire and hold real estate for the long term because it provides those real estate pays five ways, benefits of appreciation, cash flow, ROA, tax benefits and inflation profiting. But as you begin with the end in mind, it's going to be aware of your options so that you can optimize that inevitable exit of yours down the row. To summarize what you've learned so far on this segment of the show is that there are four viable exit strategies for real estate investors, the straight sale, the 1031, tax deferred exchange, refi for life, which isn't a sale at all. It's a series of cash out refis, and finally, the 721 exchange, where you sell to a partnership, all with their various pros and cons. So some really good options for you. You can look up Ridge lending group, if you want to do a cash out refi on your investment property, they're very well versed in how to do those things. That was the third strategy, the refi for life. What do I personally recommend that you do? Well, I don't know your situation, but I can just tell you what I do myself, and that is generally, if I like a property, I keep doing the refi for life thing, continued cash out refinances, and I just keep holding onto the property and enjoying that tax free cash. That's if I like a property. If I don't like a property, I will be more likely to 1031 exchange it up into something larger, and when I'm older and done being a direct real estate investor, that's time. I'll probably take a close look at a 721, exchange and see if it's right for me at that time. How can you learn more about these four exit strategies and what professional parties might you want to use to help facilitate it? Well, it is the same place that you get free coaching from us, and it's also the same place where you find just the right next investment property so that you're going to have something to sell in future decades. That is it gre investmentcoach.com that's free consultation with our coaches at greinvestmentcoach.com   Keith Weinhold  37:19   I'm Keith Weinhold, thanks for being here, but you weren't here for me. You were here for you. Don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 1  37:29   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  37:57   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get richeducation.com you.  

What if the most transformative thing you can do for your writing craft and author business is to face what you fear? How can you can find gold in your Shadow in the year ahead? In this episode, I share chapters from Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words. In the intro, curated book boxes from Bridgerton's Julia Quinn; Google's agentic shopping, and powering Apple's Siri; ChatGPT Ads; and Claude CoWork. Balancing Certainty and Uncertainty [MoonShots with Tony Robbins]; and three trends for authors with me and Orna Ross [Self-Publishing with ALLi Podcast]; plus, Bones of the Deep, Business for Authors, and Indie Author Lab. This show is supported by my Patrons. Join my Community at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn  Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-winning, New York Times and USA Today bestselling author of thrillers, dark fantasy, and memoir as J.F. Penn. She's also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker. What is the Shadow? The ‘creative wound' and the Shadow in writing The Shadow in traditional publishing The Shadow in self-publishing or being an indie author The Shadow in work The Shadow in money You can find Writing the Shadow in all formats on all stores, as well as special edition, workbook and bundles at www.TheCreativePenn.com/shadowbook Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words The following chapters are excerpted from Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words by Joanna Penn. Introduction. What is the Shadow? “How can I be substantial if I do not cast a shadow? I must have a dark side also if I am to be whole.” —C.G. Jung, Modern Man in Search of a Soul We all have a Shadow side and it is the work of a lifetime to recognise what lies within and spin that base material into gold. Think of it as a seedling in a little pot that you're given when you're young. It's a bit misshapen and weird, not something you would display in your living room, so you place it in a dark corner of the basement. You don't look at it for years. You almost forget about it. Then one day you notice tendrils of something wild poking up through the floorboards. They're ugly and don't fit with your Scandi-minimalist interior design. You chop the tendrils away and pour weedkiller on what's left, trying to hide the fact that they were ever there. But the creeping stems keep coming. At some point, you know you have to go down there and face the wild thing your seedling has become. When you eventually pluck up enough courage to go down into the basement, you discover that the plant has wound its roots deep into the foundations of your home. Its vines weave in and out of the cracks in the walls, and it has beautiful flowers and strange fruit. It holds your world together. Perhaps you don't need to destroy the wild tendrils. Perhaps you can let them wind up into the light and allow their rich beauty to weave through your home. It will change the look you have so carefully cultivated, but maybe that's just what the place needs. The Shadow in psychology Carl Gustav Jung was a Swiss psychologist and the founder of analytical psychology. He described the Shadow as an unconscious aspect of the human personality, those parts of us that don't match up to what is expected of us by family and society, or to our own ideals. The Shadow is not necessarily evil or illegal or immoral, although of course it can be. It's also not necessarily caused by trauma, abuse, or any other severely damaging event, although again, it can be. It depends on the individual. What is in your Shadow is based on your life and your experiences, as well as your culture and society, so it will be different for everyone. Psychologist Connie Zweig, in The Inner Work of Age, explains, “The Shadow is that part of us that lies beneath or behind the light of awareness. It contains our rejected, unacceptable traits and feelings. It contains our hidden gifts and talents that have remained unexpressed or unlived. As Jung put it, the essence of the Shadow is pure gold.” To further illustrate the concept, Robert Bly, in A Little Book on the Human Shadow,uses the following metaphor: “When we are young, we carry behind us an invisible bag, into which we stuff any feelings, thoughts, or behaviours that bring disapproval or loss of love—anger, tears, neediness, laziness. By the time we go to school, our bags are already a mile long. In high school, our peer groups pressure us to stuff the bags with even more—individuality, sexuality, spontaneity, different opinions. We spend our life until we're twenty deciding which parts of ourselves to put into the bag and we spend the rest of our lives trying to get them out again.” As authors, we can use what's in the ‘bag' to enrich our writing — but only if we can access it. My intention with this book is to help you venture into your Shadow and bring some of what's hidden into the light and into your words. I'll reveal aspects of my Shadow in these pages but ultimately, this book is about you. Your Shadow is unique. There may be elements we share, but much will be different. Each chapter has questions for you to consider that may help you explore at least the edges of your Shadow, but it's not easy. As Jung said, “One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular.” But take heart, Creative. You don't need courage when things are easy. You need it when you know what you face will be difficult, but you do it anyway. We are authors. We know how to do hard things. We turn ideas into books. We manifest thoughts into ink on paper. We change lives with our writing. First, our own, then other people's. It's worth the effort to delve into Shadow, so I hope you will join me on the journey. The creative wound and the Shadow in writing “Whatever pain you can't get rid of, make it your creative offering.” —Susan Cain, Bittersweet  The more we long for something, the more extreme our desire, the more likely it is to have a Shadow side. For those of us who love books, the author life may well be a long-held dream and thus, it is filled with Shadow. Books have long been objects of desire, power, and authority. They hold a mythic status in our lives. We escaped into stories as children; we studied books at school and college; we read them now for escape and entertainment, education and inspiration. We collect beautiful books to put on our shelves. We go to them for solace and answers to the deepest questions of life. Writers are similarly held in high esteem. They shape culture, win literary prizes, give important speeches, and are quoted in the mainstream media. Their books are on the shelves in libraries and bookstores. Writers are revered, held up as rare, talented creatures made separate from us by their brilliance and insight. For bibliophile children, books were everything and to write one was a cherished dream. To become an author? Well, that would mean we might be someone special, someone worthy. Perhaps when you were young, you thought the dream of being a writer was possible — then you told someone about it. That's probably when you heard the first criticism of such a ridiculous idea, the first laughter, the first dismissal. So you abandoned the dream, pushed the idea of being a writer into the Shadow, and got on with your life. Or if it wasn't then, it came later, when you actually put pen to paper and someone — a parent, teacher, partner, or friend, perhaps even a literary agent or publisher, someone whose opinion you valued — told you it was worthless. Here are some things you might have heard: Writing is a hobby. Get a real job. You're not good enough. You don't have any writing talent. You don't have enough education. You don't know what you're doing. Your writing is derivative / unoriginal / boring / useless / doesn't make sense. The genre you write in is dead / worthless / unacceptable / morally wrong / frivolous / useless.  Who do you think you are? No one would want to read what you write. You can't even use proper grammar, so how could you write a whole book? You're wasting your time. You'll never make it as a writer. You shouldn't write those things (or even think about those things). Why don't you write something nice? Insert other derogatory comment here! Mark Pierce describes the effect of this experience in his book The Creative Wound, which “occurs when an event, or someone's actions or words, pierce you, causing a kind of rift in your soul. A comment—even offhand and unintentional—is enough to cause one.” He goes on to say that such words can inflict “damage to the core of who we are as creators. It is an attack on our artistic identity, resulting in us believing that whatever we make is somehow tainted or invalid, because shame has convinced us there is something intrinsically tainted or invalid about ourselves.” As adults, we might brush off such wounds, belittling them as unimportant in the grand scheme of things. We might even find ourselves saying the same words to other people. After all, it's easier to criticise than to create. But if you picture your younger self, bright eyed as you lose yourself in your favourite book, perhaps you might catch a glimpse of what you longed for before your dreams were dashed on the rocks of other people's reality. As Mark Pierce goes on to say, “A Creative Wound has the power to delay our pursuits—sometimes for years—and it can even derail our lives completely… Anything that makes us feel ashamed of ourselves or our work can render us incapable of the self-expression we yearn for.” This is certainly what happened to me, and it took decades to unwind. Your creative wounds will differ to mine but perhaps my experience will help you explore your own. To be clear, your Shadow may not reside in elements of horror as mine do, but hopefully you can use my example to consider where your creative wounds might lie. “You shouldn't write things like that.” It happened at secondary school around 1986 or 1987, so I would have been around eleven or twelve years old. English was one of my favourite subjects and the room we had our lessons in looked out onto a vibrant garden. I loved going to that class because it was all about books, and they were always my favourite things. One day, we were asked to write a story. I can't remember the specifics of what the teacher asked us to write, but I fictionalised a recurring nightmare. I stood in a dark room. On one side, my mum and my brother, Rod, were tied up next to a cauldron of boiling oil, ready to be thrown in. On the other side, my dad and my little sister, Lucy, were threatened with decapitation by men with machetes. I had to choose who would die. I always woke up, my heart pounding, before I had to choose. Looking back now, it clearly represented an internal conflict about having to pick sides between the two halves of my family. Not an unexpected issue from a child of divorce. Perhaps these days, I might have been sent to the school counsellor, but it was the eighties and I don't think we even had such a thing. Even so, the meaning of the story isn't the point. It was the reaction to it that left scars. “You shouldn't write things like that,” my teacher said, and I still remember her look of disappointment, even disgust. Certainly judgment. She said my writing was too dark. It wasn't a proper story. It wasn't appropriate for the class. As if horrible things never happened in stories — or in life. As if literature could not include dark tales. As if the only acceptable writing was the kind she approved of. We were taught The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie that year, which says a lot about the type of writing considered appropriate. Or perhaps the issue stemmed from the school motto, “So hateth she derknesse,” from Chaucer's The Legend of Good Women: “For fear of night, so she hates the darkness.” I had won a scholarship to a private girls' school, and their mission was to turn us all into proper young ladies. Horror was never on the curriculum. Perhaps if my teacher had encouraged me to write my darkness back then, my nightmares would have dissolved on the page. Perhaps if we had studied Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, or H.P. Lovecraft stories, or Bram Stoker's Dracula, I could have embraced the darker side of literature earlier in my life. My need to push darker thoughts into my Shadow was compounded by my (wonderful) mum's best intentions. We were brought up on the principles of The Power of Positive Thinking by Norman Vincent Peale and she tried to shield me and my brother from anything harmful or horrible. We weren't allowed to watch TV much, and even the British school drama Grange Hill was deemed inappropriate. So much of what I've achieved is because my mum instilled in me a “can do” attitude that anything is possible. I'm so grateful to her for that. (I love you, Mum!) But all that happy positivity, my desire to please her, to be a good girl, to make my teachers proud, and to be acceptable to society, meant that I pushed my darker thoughts into Shadow. They were inappropriate. They were taboo. They must be repressed, kept secret, and I must be outwardly happy and positive at all times. You cannot hold back the darkness “The night is dark and full of terrors.” —George R.R. Martin, A Storm of Swords It turned out that horror was on the curriculum, much of it in the form of educational films we watched during lessons. In English Literature, we watched Romeo drink poison and Juliet stab herself in Zeffirelli's Romeo and Juliet. In Religious Studies, we watched Jesus beaten, tortured, and crucified in The Greatest Story Ever Told, and learned of the variety of gruesome ways that Christian saints were martyred. In Classical Civilisation, we watched gladiators slaughter each other in Spartacus. In Sex Education at the peak of the AIDS crisis in the mid-'80s, we were told of the many ways we could get infected and die. In History, we studied the Holocaust with images of skeletal bodies thrown into mass graves, medical experiments on humans, and grainy videos of marching soldiers giving the Nazi salute. One of my first overseas school field trips was to the World War I battlegrounds of Flanders Fields in Belgium, where we studied the inhuman conditions of the trenches, walked through mass graves, and read war poetry by candlelight. As John McCrae wrote: We are the Dead. Short days agoWe lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,Loved and were loved, and now we lie, In Flanders fields. Did the teachers not realise how deeply a sensitive teenager might feel the darkness of that place? Or have I always been unusual in that places of blood echo deep inside me? And the horrors kept coming. We lived in Bristol, England back then and I learned at school how the city had been part of the slave trade, its wealth built on the backs of people stolen from their homes, sold, and worked to death in the colonies. I had been at school for a year in Malawi, Africa and imagined the Black people I knew drowning, being beaten, and dying on those ships. In my teenage years, the news was filled with ethnic cleansing, mass rape, and massacres during the Balkan wars, and images of bodies hacked apart during the Rwandan genocide. Evil committed by humans against other humans was not a historical aberration. I'm lucky and I certainly acknowledge my privilege. Nothing terrible or horrifying has happened to me — but bad things certainly happen to others. I wasn't bullied or abused. I wasn't raped or beaten or tortured. But you don't have to go through things to be afraid of them, and for your imagination to conjure the possibility of them. My mum doesn't read my fiction now as it gives her nightmares (Sorry, Mum!). I know she worries that somehow she's responsible for my darkness, but I've had a safe and (mostly) happy life, for which I'm truly grateful. But the world is not an entirely safe and happy place, and for a sensitive child with a vivid imagination, the world is dark and scary. It can be brutal and violent, and bad things happen, even to good people. No parent can shield their child from the reality of the world. They can only help them do their best to live in it, develop resilience, and find ways to deal with whatever comes. Story has always been a way that humans have used to learn how to live and deal with difficult times. The best authors, the ones that readers adore and can't get enough of, write their darkness into story to channel their experience, and help others who fear the same. In an interview on writing the Shadow on The Creative Penn Podcast, Michaelbrent Collings shared how he incorporated a personally devastating experience into his writing:  “My wife and I lost a child years back, and that became the root of one of my most terrifying books, Apparition. It's not terrifying because it's the greatest book of all time, but just the concept that there's this thing out there… like a demon, and it consumes the blood and fear of the children, and then it withdraws and consumes the madness of the parents… I wrote that in large measure as a way of working through what I was experiencing.” I've learned much from Michaelbrent. I've read many of his (excellent) books and he's been on my podcast multiple times talking about his depression and mental health issues, as well as difficulties in his author career. Writing darkness is not in Michaelbrent's Shadow and only he can say what lies there for him. But from his example, and from that of other authors, I too learned how to write my Shadow into my books. Twenty-three years after that English lesson, in November 2009, I did NaNoWriMo, National Novel Writing Month, and wrote five thousand words of what eventually became Stone of Fire, my first novel. In the initial chapter, I burned a nun alive on the ghats of Varanasi on the banks of the Ganges River. I had watched the bodies burn by night on pyres from a boat bobbing in the current a few years before, and the image was still crystal clear in my mind. The only way to deal with how it made me feel about death was to write about it — and since then, I've never stopped writing. Returning to the nightmare from my school days, I've never had to choose between the two halves of my family, but the threat of losing them remains a theme in my fiction. In my ARKANE thriller series, Morgan Sierra will do anything to save her sister and her niece. Their safety drives her to continue to fight against evil. Our deepest fears emerge in our writing, and that's the safest place for them. I wish I'd been taught how to turn my nightmares into words back at school, but at least now I've learned to write my Shadow onto the page. I wish the same for you. The Shadow in traditional publishing If becoming an author is your dream, then publishing a book is deeply entwined with that. But as Mark Pierce says in The Creative Wound, “We feel pain the most where it matters the most… Desire highlights whatever we consider to be truly significant.” There is a lot of desire around publishing for those of us who love books! It can give you: Validation that your writing is good enough Status and credibility Acceptance by an industry held in esteem  The potential of financial reward and critical acclaim Support from a team of professionals who know how to make fantastic books A sense of belonging to an elite community Pride in achieving a long-held goal, resulting in a confidence boost and self-esteem Although not guaranteed, traditional publishing can give you all these things and more, but as with everything, there is a potential Shadow side. Denying it risks the potential of being disillusioned, disappointed, and even damaged. But remember, forewarned is forearmed, as the saying goes. Preparation can help you avoid potential issues and help you feel less alone if you encounter them. The myth of success… and the reality of experience There is a pervasive myth of success in the traditional publishing industry, perpetuated by media reporting on brand name and breakout authors, those few outliers whose experience is almost impossible to replicate. Because of such examples, many new traditionally published authors think that their first book will hit the top of the bestseller charts or win an award, as well as make them a million dollars — or at least a big chunk of cash. They will be able to leave their job, write in a beautiful house overlooking the ocean, and swan around the world attending conferences, while writing more bestselling books. It will be a charmed life. But that is not the reality. Perhaps it never was. Even so, the life of a traditionally published author represents a mythic career with the truth hidden behind a veil of obscurity. In April 2023, The Bookseller in the UK reported that “more than half of authors (54%) responding to a survey on their experiences of publishing their debut book have said the process negatively affected their mental health. Though views were mixed, just 22%… described a positive experience overall… Among the majority who said they had a negative experience of debut publication, anxiety, stress, depression and ‘lowered' self-esteem were cited, with lack of support, guidance or clear and professional communication from their publisher among the factors that contributed.” Many authors who have negative experiences around publishing will push them into the Shadow with denial or self-blame, preferring to keep the dream alive. They won't talk about things in public as this may negatively affect their careers, but private discussions are often held in the corners of writing conferences or social media groups online. Some of the issues are as follows: Repeated rejection by agents and publishers may lead to the author thinking they are not good enough as a writer, which can lead to feeling unworthy as a person. If an author gets a deal, the amount of advance and the name and status of the publisher compared to others create a hierarchy that impacts self-esteem. A deal for a book may be much lower than an author might have been expecting, with low or no advance, and the resulting experience with the publisher beneath expectations. The launch process may be disappointing, and the book may appear without fanfare, with few sales and no bestseller chart position. In The Bookseller report, one author described her launch day as “a total wasteland… You have expectations about what publication day will be like, but in reality, nothing really happens.” The book may receive negative reviews by critics or readers or more publicly on social media, which can make an author feel attacked. The book might not sell as well as expected, and the author may feel like it's their fault. Commercial success can sometimes feel tied to self-worth and an author can't help but compare their sales to others, with resulting embarrassment or shame. The communication from the publisher may be less than expected. One author in The Bookseller report said, “I was shocked by the lack of clarity and shared information and the cynicism that underlies the superficial charm of this industry.” There is often more of a focus on debut authors in publishing houses, so those who have been writing and publishing in the midlist for years can feel ignored and undervalued. In The Bookseller report, 48 percent of authors reported “their publisher supported them for less than a year,” with one saying, “I got no support and felt like a commodity, like the team had moved on completely to the next book.” If an author is not successful enough, the next deal may be lower than the last, less effort is made with marketing, and they may be let go. In The Bookseller report, “six authors—debut and otherwise—cited being dropped by their publisher, some with no explanation.” Even if everything goes well and an author is considered successful by others, they may experience imposter syndrome, feeling like a fraud when speaking at conferences or doing book signings. And the list goes on … All these things can lead to feelings of shame, inadequacy, and embarrassment; loss of status in the eyes of peers; and a sense of failure if a publishing career is not successful enough. The author feels like it's their fault, like they weren't good enough — although, of course, the reality is that the conditions were not right at the time. A failure of a book is not a failure of the person, but it can certainly feel like it! When you acknowledge the Shadow, it loses its power Despite all the potential negatives of traditional publishing, if you know what could happen, you can mitigate them. You can prepare yourself for various scenarios and protect yourself from potential fall-out. It's clear from The Bookseller report that too many authors have unrealistic expectations of the industry. But publishers are businesses, not charities. It's not their job to make you feel good as an author. It's their job to sell books and pay you. The best thing they can do is to continue to be a viable business so they can keep putting books on the shelves and keep paying authors, staff, and company shareholders. When you license your creative work to a publisher, you're giving up control of your intellectual property in exchange for money and status. Bring your fears and issues out of the Shadow, acknowledge them, and deal with them early, so they do not get pushed down and re-emerge later in blame and bitterness. Educate yourself on the business of publishing. Be clear on what you want to achieve with any deal. Empower yourself as an author, take responsibility for your career, and you will have a much better experience. The Shadow in self-publishing or being an indie author Self-publishing, or being an independent (indie) author, can be a fantastic, pro-active choice for getting your book into the world. Holding your first book in your hand and saying “I made this” is pretty exciting, and even after more than forty books, I still get excited about seeing ideas in my head turn into a physical product in the world. Self-publishing can give an author: Creative control over what to write, editorial and cover design choices, when and how often to publish, and how to market Empowerment over your author career and the ability to make choices that impact success without asking for permission Ownership and control of intellectual property assets, resulting in increased opportunity around licensing and new markets Independence and the potential for recurring income for the long term Autonomy and flexibility around timelines, publishing options, and the ability to easily pivot into new genres and business models Validation based on positive reader reviews and money earned Personal growth and learning through the acquisition of new skills, resulting in a boost in confidence and self-esteem A sense of belonging to an active and vibrant community of indie authors around the world Being an indie author can give you all this and more, but once again, there is a Shadow side and preparation can help you navigate potential issues. The myth of success… and the reality of experience As with traditional publishing, the indie author world has perpetuated a myth of success in the example of the breakout indie author like E.L. James with Fifty Shades of Grey, Hugh Howey with Wool, or Andy Weir with The Martian. The emphasis on financial success is also fuelled online by authors who share screenshots showing six-figure months or seven-figure years, without sharing marketing costs and other outgoings, or the amount of time spent on the business. Yes, these can inspire some, but it can also make others feel inadequate and potentially lead to bad choices about how to publish and market based on comparison. The indie author world is full of just as much ego and a desire for status and money as traditional publishing. This is not a surprise! Most authors, regardless of publishing choices, are a mix of massive ego and chronic self-doubt. We are human, so the same issues will re-occur. A different publishing method doesn't cure all ills. Some of the issues are as follows: You learn everything you need to know about writing and editing, only to find that you need to learn a whole new set of skills in order to self-publish and market your book. This can take a lot of time and effort you did not expect, and things change all the time so you have to keep learning. Being in control of every aspect of the publishing process, from writing to cover design to marketing, can be overwhelming, leading to indecision, perfectionism, stress, and even burnout as you try to do all the things. You try to find people to help, but building your team is a challenge, and working with others has its own difficulties. People say negative things about self-publishing that may arouse feelings of embarrassment or shame. These might be little niggles, but they needle you, nonetheless. You wonder whether you made the right choice. You struggle with self-doubt and if you go to an event with traditional published authors, you compare yourself to them and feel like an imposter. Are you good enough to be an author if a traditional publisher hasn't chosen you? Is it just vanity to self-publish? Are your books unworthy? Even though you worked with a professional editor, you still get one-star reviews and you hate criticism from readers. You wonder whether you're wasting your time. You might be ripped off by an author services company who promise the world, only to leave you with a pile of printed books in your garage and no way to sell them. When you finally publish your book, it languishes at the bottom of the charts while other authors hit the top of the list over and over, raking in the cash while you are left out of pocket. You don't admit to over-spending on marketing as it makes you ashamed. You resist book marketing and make critical comments about writers who embrace it. You believe that quality rises to the top and if a book is good enough, people will buy it anyway. This can lead to disappointment and disillusionment when you launch your book and it doesn't sell many copies because nobody knows about it. You try to do what everyone advises, but you still can't make decent money as an author. You're jealous of other authors' success and put it down to them ‘selling out' or writing things you can't or ‘using AI' or ‘using a ghostwriter' or having a specific business model you consider impossible to replicate. And the list goes on… When you acknowledge the Shadow, it loses its power Being in control of your books and your author career is a double-edged sword. Traditionally published authors can criticise their publishers or agents or the marketing team or the bookstores or the media, but indie authors have to take responsibility for it all. Sure, we can blame ‘the algorithms' or social media platforms, or criticise other authors for having more experience or more money to invest in marketing, or attribute their success to writing in a more popular genre — but we also know there are always people who do well regardless of the challenges. Once more, we're back to acknowledging and integrating the Shadow side of our choices. We are flawed humans. There will always be good times and bad, and difficulties to offset the high points. This too shall pass, as the old saying goes. I know that being an indie author has plenty of Shadow. I've been doing this since 2008 and despite the hard times, I'm still here. I'm still writing. I'm still publishing. This life is not for everyone, but it's my choice. You must make yours. The Shadow in work You work hard. You make a living. Nothing wrong with that attitude, right? It's what we're taught from an early age and, like so much of life, it's not a problem until it goes to extremes. Not achieving what you want to? Work harder. Can't get ahead? Work harder. Not making a good enough living? Work harder. People who don't work hard are lazy. They don't deserve handouts or benefits. People who don't work hard aren't useful, so they are not valued members of our culture and community. But what about the old or the sick, the mentally ill, or those with disabilities? What about children? What about the unemployed? The under-employed? What about those who are — or will be — displaced by technology, those called “the useless class” by historian Yuval Noah Harari in his book Homo Deus? What if we become one of these in the future? Who am I if I cannot work? The Shadow side of my attitude to work became clear when I caught COVID in the summer of 2021. I was the sickest I'd ever been. I spent two weeks in bed unable to even think properly, and six weeks after that, I was barely able to work more than an hour a day before lying in the dark and waiting for my energy to return. I was limited in what I could do for another six months after that. At times, I wondered if I would ever get better. Jonathan kept urging me to be patient and rest. But I don't know how to rest. I know how to work and how to sleep. I can do ‘active rest,' which usually involves walking a long way or traveling somewhere interesting, but those require a stronger mind and body than I had during those months. It struck me that even if I recovered from the virus, I had glimpsed my future self. One day, I will be weak in body and mind. If I'm lucky, that will be many years away and hopefully for a short time before I die — but it will happen. I am an animal. I will die. My body and mind will pass on and I will be no more. Before then I will be weak. Before then, I will be useless. Before then, I will be a burden. I will not be able to work… But who am I if I cannot work? What is the point of me? I can't answer these questions right now, because although I recognise them as part of my Shadow, I've not progressed far enough to have dealt with them entirely. My months of COVID gave me some much-needed empathy for those who cannot work, even if they want to. We need to reframe what work is as a society, and value humans for different things, especially as technology changes what work even means. That starts with each of us. “Illness, affliction of body and soul, can be life-altering. It has the potential to reveal the most fundamental conflict of the human condition: the tension between our infinite, glorious dreams and desires and our limited, vulnerable, decaying physicality.” —Connie Zweig, The Inner Work of Age: Shifting from Role to Soul The Shadow in money In the Greek myth, King Midas was a wealthy ruler who loved gold above all else. His palace was adorned with golden sculptures and furniture, and he took immense pleasure in his riches. Yet, despite his vast wealth, he yearned for more. After doing a favour for Dionysus, the god of wine and revelry, Midas was granted a single wish. Intoxicated by greed, he wished that everything he touched would turn to gold — and it was so. At first, it was a lot of fun. Midas turned everything else in his palace to gold, even the trees and stones of his estate. After a morning of turning things to gold, he fancied a spot of lunch. But when he tried to eat, the food and drink turned to gold in his mouth. He became thirsty and hungry — and increasingly desperate. As he sat in despair on his golden throne, his beloved young daughter ran to comfort him. For a moment, he forgot his wish — and as she wrapped her arms around him and kissed his cheek, she turned into a golden statue, frozen in precious metal. King Midas cried out to the gods to forgive him, to reverse the wish. He renounced his greed and gave away all his wealth, and his daughter was returned to life. The moral of the story: Wealth and greed are bad. In Charles Dickens's A Christmas Carol, Ebenezer Scrooge is described as a “squeezing, wrenching, grasping, scraping, clutching, covetous, old sinner.” He's wealthy but does not share, considering Christmas spending to be frivolous and giving to charity to be worthless. He's saved by a confrontation with his lonely future and becomes a generous man and benefactor of the poor. Wealth is good if you share it with others. The gospel of Matthew, chapter 25: 14-30, tells the parable of the bags of gold, in which a rich man goes on a journey and entrusts his servants with varying amounts of gold. On his return, the servants who multiplied the gold through their efforts and investments are rewarded, while the one who merely returned the gold with no interest is punished: “For whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them.” Making money is good, making more money is even better. If you can't make any money, you don't deserve to have any. Within the same gospel, in Matthew 19:24, Jesus encounters a wealthy man and tells him to sell all his possessions and give the money to the poor, which the man is unable to do. Jesus says, “It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” Wealth is bad. Give it all away and you'll go to heaven. With all these contradictory messages, no wonder we're so conflicted about money! How do you think and feel about money? While money is mostly tied to our work, it's far more than just a transactional object for most people. It's loaded with complex symbolism and judgment handed down by family, religion, and culture. You are likely to find elements of Shadow by examining your attitudes around money. Consider which of the following statements resonate with you or write your own. Money stresses me out. I don't want to talk about it or think about it. Some people hoard money, so there is inequality. Rich people are bad and we should take away their wealth and give it to the poor.  I can never make enough money to pay the bills, or to give my family what I want to provide. Money doesn't grow on trees.  It's wasteful to spend money as you might need it later, so I'm frugal and don't spend money unless absolutely necessary. It is better and more ethical to be poor than to be rich. I want more money. I read books and watch TV shows about rich people because I want to live like that. Sometimes I spend too much on things for a glimpse of what that might be like.  I buy lottery tickets and dream of winning all that money.  I'm jealous of people who have money. I want more of it and I resent those who have it. I'm no good with money. I don't like to look at my bank statement or credit card statement. I live off my overdraft and I'm in debt. I will never earn enough to get out of debt and start saving, so I don't think too much about it. I don't know enough about money. Talking about it makes me feel stupid, so I just ignore it. People like me aren't educated about money.  I need to make more money. If I can make lots of money, then people will look up to me. If I make lots of money, I will be secure, nothing can touch me, I will be safe.  I never want to be poor. I would be ashamed to be poor. I will never go on benefits. My net worth is my self worth. Money is good. We have the best standard of living in history because of the increase in wealth over time. Even the richest kings of the past didn't have what many middle-class people have today in terms of access to food, water, technology, healthcare, education, and more. The richest people give the most money to the poor through taxation and charity, as well as through building companies that employ people and invent new things. The very richest give away much of their fortunes. They provide far more benefit to the world than the poor.  I love money. Money loves me. Money comes easily and quickly to me. I attract money in multiple streams of income. It flows to me in so many ways. I spend money. I invest money. I give money. I'm happy and grateful for all that I receive. The Shadow around money for authors in particular Many writers and other creatives have issues around money and wealth. How often have you heard the following, and which do you agree with? You can't make money with your writing. You'll be a poor author in a garret, a starving artist.  You can't write ‘good quality' books and make money. If you make money writing, you're a hack, you're selling out. You are less worthy than someone who writes only for the Muse. Your books are commercial, not artistic. If you spend money on marketing, then your books are clearly not good enough to sell on their own. My agent / publisher / accountant / partner deals with the money side. I like to focus on the creative side of things. My money story Note: This is not financial or investment advice. Please talk to a professional about your situation. I've had money issues over the years — haven't we all! But I have been through a (long) process to bring money out of my Shadow and into the light. There will always be more to discover, but hopefully my money story will help you, or at least give you an opportunity to reflect. Like most people, I didn't grow up with a lot of money. My parents started out as teachers, but later my mum — who I lived with, along with my brother — became a change management consultant, moving to the USA and earning a lot more. I'm grateful that she moved into business because her example changed the way I saw money and provided some valuable lessons. (1) You can change your circumstances by learning more and then applying that to leverage opportunity into a new job or career Mum taught English at a school in Bristol when we moved back from Malawi, Africa, in the mid '80s but I remember how stressful it was for her, and how little money she made. She wanted a better future for us all, so she took a year out to do a master's degree in management. In the same way, when I wanted to change careers and leave consulting to become an author, I spent time and money learning about the writing craft and the business of publishing. I still invest a considerable chunk on continuous learning, as this industry changes all the time. (2) You might have to downsize in order to leap forward The year my mum did her degree, we lived in the attic of another family's house; we ate a lot of one-pot casserole and our treat was having a Yorkie bar on the walk back from the museum. We wore hand-me-down clothes, and I remember one day at school when another girl said I was wearing her dress. I denied it, of course, but there in back of the dress was her name tag. I still remember her name and I can still feel that flush of shame and embarrassment. I was determined to never feel like that again. But what I didn't realize at the time was that I was also learning the power of downsizing. Mum got her degree and then a new job in management in Bristol. She bought a house, and we settled for a few years. I had lots of different jobs as a teenager. My favourite was working in the delicatessen because we got a free lunch made from delicious produce. After I finished A-levels, I went to the University of Oxford, and my mum and brother moved to the USA for further opportunities. I've downsized multiple times over the years, taking a step back in order to take a step forward. The biggest was in 2010 when I decided to leave consulting. Jonathan and I sold our three-bedroom house and investments in Brisbane, Australia, and rented a one-bedroom flat in London, so we could be debt-free and live on less while I built up a new career. It was a decade before we bought another house. (3) Comparison can be deadly: there will always be people with more money than you Oxford was an education in many ways and relevant to this chapter is how much I didn't know about things people with money took for granted. I learned about formal hall and wine pairings, and how to make a perfect gin and tonic. I ate smoked salmon for the first time. I learned how to fit in with people who had a lot more money than I did, and I definitely wanted to have money of my own to play with. (4) Income is not wealth You can earn lots but have nothing to show for it after years of working. I learned this in my first few years of IT consulting after university. I earned a great salary and then went contracting, earning even more money at a daily rate. I had a wonderful time. I traveled, ate and drank and generally made merry, but I always had to go back to the day job when the money ran out. I couldn't work out how I could ever stop this cycle. Then I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki, a book I still recommend, especially if you're from a family that values academic over financial education. I learned how to escape the rat race by building and/or accumulating assets that pay even when you're not working. It was a revelation! The ‘poor dad' in the book is a university professor. He knows so much about so many things, but he ends up poor as he did not educate himself about money. The ‘rich dad' has little formal education, but he knows about money and wealth because he learned about it, as we can do at any stage in our lives. (5) Not all investments suit every person, so find the right one for you Once I discovered the world of investing, I read all the books and did courses and in-person events. I joined communities and I up-skilled big time. Of course, I made mistakes and learned lots along the way. I tried property investing and renovated a couple of houses for rental (with more practical partners and skilled contractors). But while I could see that property investing might work for some people, I did not care enough about the details to make it work for me, and it was certainly not passive income. I tried other things. My first husband was a boat skipper and scuba diving instructor, so we started a charter. With the variable costs of fuel, the vagaries of New Zealand weather — and our divorce — it didn't last long! From all these experiments, I learned I wanted to run a business, but it needed to be online and not based on a physical location, physical premises, or other people. That was 2006, around the time that blogging started taking off and it became possible to make a living online. I could see the potential and a year later, the iPhone and the Amazon Kindle launched, which became the basis of my business as an author. (6) Boring, automatic saving and investing works best Between 2007 and 2011, I contracted in Australia, where they have compulsory superannuation contributions, meaning you have to save and invest a percentage of your salary or self-employed income. I'd never done that before, because I didn't understand it. I'd ploughed all my excess income into property or the business instead. But in Australia I didn't notice the money going out because it was automatic. I chose a particular fund and it auto-invested every month. The pot grew pretty fast since I didn't touch it, and years later, it's still growing. I discovered the power of compound interest and time in the market, both of which are super boring. This type of investing is not a get rich quick scheme. It's a slow process of automatically putting money into boring investments and doing that month in, month out, year in, year out, automatically for decades while you get on with your life. I still do this. I earn money as an author entrepreneur and I put a percentage of that into boring investments automatically every month. I also have a small amount which is for fun and higher risk investments, but mostly I'm a conservative, risk-averse investor planning ahead for the future. This is not financial advice, so I'm not giving any specifics. I have a list of recommended money books at www.TheCreativePenn.com/moneybooks if you want to learn more. Learning from the Shadow When I look back, my Shadow side around money eventually drove me to learn more and resulted in a better outcome (so far!). I was ashamed of being poor when I had to wear hand-me-down clothes at school. That drove a fear of not having any money, which partially explains my workaholism. I was embarrassed at Oxford because I didn't know how to behave in certain settings, and I wanted to be like the rich people I saw there. I spent too much money in my early years as a consultant because I wanted to experience a “rich” life and didn't understand saving and investing would lead to better things in the future. I invested too much in the wrong things because I didn't know myself well enough and I was trying to get rich quick so I could leave my job and ‘be happy.' But eventually, I discovered that I could grow my net worth with boring, long-term investments while doing a job I loved as an author entrepreneur. My only regret is that I didn't discover this earlier and put a percentage of my income into investments as soon as I started work. It took several decades to get started, but at least I did (eventually) start. My money story isn't over yet, and I keep learning new things, but hopefully my experience will help you reflect on your own and avoid the issue if it's still in Shadow. These chapters are excerpted from Writing the Shadow: Turn Your Inner Darkness Into Words by Joanna Penn  The post Writing The Shadow: The Creative Wound, Publishing, And Money, With Joanna Penn first appeared on The Creative Penn.

Phil Koller studied the concentration and key man risks in a distribution business well-suited to him — and went for it.Register for the webinar:From W2 to Owner Mindset: How to Think About Your Take-Home Pay - TODAY!! - https://bit.ly/4r5RsI3Topics in Philip's interview:Preferred working in a small companyHis friend talked him into real estate, then ETAInspired by Rich Dad, Poor DadImportance of having his wife on boardPaused search due to upcoming second childBought Roman Enterprises, an automotive paint distributorInherited exactly 1 employeeDid door-to-door sales to learn marketManaged customer and supplier concentration riskDrew perseverance from grandfather's Holocaust survivalReferences and how to contact Philip:LinkedInRoman EnterprisesBen Jasper on Acquiring Minds: How to Buy a Manufacturer with $1m in Cash FlowJerod Pierce on Acquiring Minds: From SBA Loan to High 8-Figure Exit Download the New CEO's Guide to Human Resources from Aspen HR:From this page or contact jenny@aspenhr.comWork with an SBA loan team focused exclusively on helping entrepreneurs buy businesses:Pioneer Capital AdvisoryLearn more about Walker Deibel's done-with-you buy-side advisory:The Acquisition LabConnect with Acquiring Minds:See past + future interviews on the YouTube channelConnect with host Will Smith on LinkedInFollow Will on TwitterEdited by Anton RohozovProduced by Pam Cameron

These two personal finance advisors are friends, but what they believe couldn't be more opposite.

Keith explores two big themes shaping real estate investors' futures: Why more Americans are becoming "forever renters"—and how long-term lifestyle and demographic shifts (not just today's prices and rates) are quietly reshaping the demand for rentals. The growing conversation around eliminating property taxes—which states are making the most noise, and why the real issue isn't whether property taxes go away, but what would realistically replace them. Keith also zooms out for a quick year-end tour of major asset classes—from stocks and real estate to metals and crypto—so listeners can see where real estate fits in the broader investing landscape and what these shifts might mean for their wealth-building strategy. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/588 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the Forever renter trend keeps getting embedded deeper into American culture. What's behind it? It's more than just finances. Then there's been more talk about eliminating property taxes, if they go away, what replaces them? And we'll discuss more today on get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:12   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:28   Welcome to GRE from Jamestown, New York to Jamestown, North Dakota and across 108 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education. Most investments reduce your income until you can start drawing on it and paying taxes on it in your 60s. That's a lot of decades of living below your means. Here learn how to grow your means and invest in vehicles that pay you when you're young enough to enjoy it and pay you five ways tax advantaged. Hey, there's a big misunderstanding about the housing market taking place right now. Yes, today's higher cost of home ownership contributes to Americans renting longer, for sure, but let's not make the mistake of thinking this is a new phenomenon just because home prices moved higher or mortgage rates began normalizing again a few years ago, that's not what it's about Americans renting longer. That is a trend decades in the making, and it has had and will continue to have major implications on the rental housing market decades into the future, buying your first home at 25 that was your grandparents or maybe your parents. Today, it kind of goes like this in life's journey for the wannabe homeowner, First comes the gray hair, then comes the mortgage. Last year, we learned that the average first time homebuyer age in America has moved up to 40. Back in 1981 it was age 29 per the NAR. More specifically one's real estate journey, it basically now goes like this, rent, rent, rent, have roommates again, go back to renting, chiropractor, Bank of mom and dad, then a mortgage maybe.   Keith Weinhold  3:34   Yeah, the home ownership rate, it keeps falling among every age group, most sharply among 30 somethings. The translation here is that more renters are coming. For those in their 30s, the home ownership rate maxed out at 69% in 1980 it's fallen to just 47% today. Those that are older, for those in their 40s, the homeownership rate maxed out at 78% in 1982 it has fallen to just 62% today and so on. Every 10 year age group all the way to those age 80 plus, the homeownership rate has fallen for all of them over the decades too, every single age cohort. The home ownership rate has fallen over the decades, and that is all per the Census Bureau. I'll tell you why this forever renter trend just keeps strengthening in a moment. But if you don't own your home, here are your current housing options. You can live with your parents. Yes, welcome back childhood bedroom with those glow in the dark stars on the ceiling. Sadly, you can be homeless. That is really not good. Or the other option is you can rent something nice, new, modern, and energy eficient. The group in which home ownership has fallen the most are those 30 somethings. 20 somethings aren't even part of what the Census Bureau reported here. It fell most sharply in the 1980s and then again, after the great recession. And here's what I know you might be thinking because we have some of the smartest listeners around. I bet that during times that buying was cheaper than renting, the trend reversed. That's what you might be thinking. No, it didn't. Regardless of what is cheaper, over time, the home ownership rate just keeps falling despite those periods, whatever is cheaper renting or owning now the overall home ownership rate that's fallen just since 2023 from 66% down to 65% that might not sound like much, but a Full 1% drop there means 1.3 million new renters already, just since 2023 and now you might be thinking, well, this is like totally because home prices and mortgage rates have been higher since that time. They've been higher since 2023 you are, in fact, somewhat correct about the affordability on a median priced home today, which is around 420k, I mean a 10% down payment and closing costs, that means you're out of pocket, probably more than 50k and it's 100k plus for a 20% down payment. And this is often an insurmountable hurdle without financial help from the Bank of mom and dad. But this is all part of a longer, multi decade set of trends. And look, a lot of these trends don't have much of anything to do with finances. People are renting longer because Americans wait longer to marry and have kids, and this has persisted, whether economic cycles are good or bad, and certainly, regardless of what mortgage rate levels are, younger generations value flexibility. That's another reason people are renting longer. Also 30 somethings are just simply more comfortable with subscription models like renting. I mean, look at Netflix and Uber and Spotify. It's been decades since anyone actually bought DVDs or CDs. Yeah, renting is just sort of another subscription model. More. Boomers are also renting for convenience. They would rather play pickleball instead of mow a lawn. This is something that they figured out a while ago. Also higher consumer and educational debt keeps people renting. You've got buy now, pay later. Companies like Klarna that are booming and mortgage eligibility got sucked from souls when all this happened? Hey, I've got more a ton of reasons for why more and more people are renters today, and how this trend is your friend if you are a rental property investor.    Keith Weinhold  8:13   Also, let's be mindful when we broke the gold standard in 1971 asset prices took off like a Blue Origin launch, and wages stagnated. That makes it tough to patch together a down payment and look, there is still an antiquated notion out there that apartments especially are like replete with paper thin walls and one in every five units is a meth lab. Have you toured apartment buildings, fourplexes, duplexes and single family rentals built in the last 10 years? Sheesh. Great amenities. Expect to see granite countertops, patios, fenced yards, gyms, sometimes even pet spas at Class A apartments, washer, dryer in unit. I mean, that has been standard for a long time, LED lighting, smart locks, increasingly office nooks for remote workers. Those are the modern amenities that you find in a rental. So the bottom line here is that as Americans age, there is an elongated renter stage of life. It's not just prices or rates, it is lifestyle. And this is why, even when affordability improves, the homeownership rate should continue to drop. More rental demand is coming. So yes, an elongated renter stage, this forever renter, if you will. That is somewhat about finances, but it is more, and this shapes the landlordtenant landscape for decades. And of course, your advantage here at GRE is even if you live in a High Cost part of the nation, we know how to buy here, say, a brand new build to rent single family property in an investor advantage place like Indiana, Missouri, Alabama or Florida, and we get it for, say, 300k or so, and you get a tenant that will pay you rent for four years or more in a lot of cases. So we've been talking about where the rental demand is coming from. It is both a lifestyle choice and a financial consideration for your tenant. Now this forever renter trend, that's something that really matters if you are providing housing to people. But some real estate trends just move so slowly, so glacier like that, you can kind of get lulled to sleep, until one day you look up and a trend has crystallized like the one that I just described. Let's compare a trend like that to something that people think matters a lot, and this does matter, but its importance is overinflated, and that is, for example, the President's nomination of a new Fed chair this year, and how that's going to move the real estate market. No, not as much as people think, as we've learned here, mortgage rates actually don't have that much to do with home prices. And yes, mortgage rates do move. They are correlated with the Fed funds rate. Yes, they are. When one is high, the other will be high. When one is low, the other will be low. They just don't move in direct lockstep. Let's listen in to the remarks of one Donald John Trump on the matter, because he talks about housing here. This is about a minute long, and then I come back to comment when Trump says him, he is apparently pointing to Treasury Secretary Scott Besant, who was in the room at the time, but as you'll hear, he's not expected to be the Fed Chair selection.    Speaker 1  12:06   Have you started the interviews for the Fed chair? Yes. Who have you interviewed? Ithink I already know my choice well. I like to him, but he's not going to take the job very fast. You like Treasury better, right? Much better, sir. So we are talking to various people and the I mean, frankly, I'd love to get the guy currently, and they're out right now,but people are holding me back. He's done a terrible job, hurting housing a little bit. The truth is, we've been so successful, we've blown past his interest rate. Stupidity. He's been wrong. That's why I call him too late. He's too late. Jerome, too late. Powell, he was recommended to me by a guy that made a bad, you know, bad choice, and it's too bad. But despite that, it's having very little impact, because we have, you know, we have all of these things happening, but it has an impact on housing to a certain extent. He's a fool. He's a stupid man, but we have some very good people   Keith Weinhold  13:09   yeah. So this matters, but it's as much entertainment and almost comedy against a demographic trend like the Forever renter propensity, a calendar year recently ended. It's time to make a quick rundown of the overall investing landscape. Once in a while we do that. It's good to check the movement on other asset classes outside real estate. It's our asset class rundown for last year, the s, p5, 100 was up nearly 17% that's the third year in a row of double digit gains in the year that Warren Buffett stepped down as CEO of Berkshire Hathaway, there's a warning. The S and P Schiller price to earnings ratio soared above 40 for only the second time in history. That's an indicator that stocks are overvalued. The only other time that happened was during the.com bubble in real estate, single family home values were up about 2% per the NAR just over 1% per Kay Shiller, apartment building values were flat to a slight decline. There is no such thing as an official apartment building Price Index, CPI inflation, up almost 3% on the year. It now hasn't been at the Fed's target of 2% or lower for a calendar year since 2019 Yeah, it has run hot all that time. Last year, mortgage rates fell from 6.9% to 6.2% and then, as you would expect, the yield on the 10 year treasury note also fell from 4.6 to 4.2 The dollar fell hard with a thud down 9% its worst performance since 2017 WTI oil prices fell from 70 bucks to $58 that's an 18% decline, but really the story of the year among all asset. Classes is what happened with precious metals, gold up a staggering 68% over the past year, touching an all time high of about $4,500 silver, up about 155% leaving investors flabbergasted and slack jawed, touching an all time high of over $80 platinum and palladium had near triple digit gains the real price of gold. This means inflation adjusted even jumped to its all time high last year, significantly surpassing the previous peaks of 1980 2011, and 2020. Realized this. More than 80% of all the recoverable gold on earth has already been extracted. Silver has been the top performing major asset class. In fact, today, a little one ounce silver coin is worth more than a 300 pound barrel of oil. Sticking with the topic of metals, inflation finally killed a penny. The last one was minted in 2025 in Philadelphia, ending a continuous run of the US minting the penny since 1792 no more. Bitcoin was down 6% falling from 93k to 87k the NASDAQ is aiming for near round the clock trading. It currently trades 16 hours a day, five days a week. They are looking to go up to 23 hours a day, five days a week in the second half of this year. That's our year end asset class rundown    Keith Weinhold  16:34   coming up in future weeks of the get rich education podcast. I am going to do an episode on overpopulation versus underpopulation? Is the world over or underpopulated, and is the United States over or underpopulated? This obviously has huge implications for the housing market. Then on another episode, we're going to discuss a real estate axis strategy we've never discussed before, called the 721 exchange. Now you might have heard of the better known 1031 tax deferred exchange, but the 731 is different. When you get older as a property owner and you realize that you don't want the hassles of landlording anymore, you can sell your properties to a partnership. The 721 exchange dictates that this is not a taxable event, and therefore no capital gains taxes or depreciation recapture are due. Property owners still get the benefits of cash flow and the appreciation across a greater number of properties and markets, and it's a great estate planning tool as well. Yes, that's the 721, exchange. We are going to cover it here. When it comes to investment real estate, I guess we cover nearly everything that's coming up on a future episode. As for today, we're talking about property taxes, if they go away, what replaces them that comes up shortly? Visit get richeducation.com to learn more about how we help you and what we do, and to get connected with real estate. Pays five ways type of properties. Visit gre marketplace.com. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  18:23   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products. They've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989,yep, text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  19:34   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, start your pre qual and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind. Start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com    Jim Rickards  20:05   this is author Jim Rickards. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  20:22   Welcome back to get rich education. Episode 588 for the 12th consecutive year here, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I look forward to perhaps meeting you in person this coming weekend, as I'll be attending the real estate guys create your future goals retreat event in Colorado Springs. You probably remember that we have had the events host and leader, Robert Helms, of the real estate guys on the show with us here several times in the past. What a class act I am spending a few extra days after the event in Colorado Springs to both look at local real estate in that market and climb the Manitou incline, that's this grueling climbing challenge up a slope of Pikes Peak. If you want to climb with me after the real estate guys event, bring your running shoes and I'll lead a group of us up there    Keith Weinhold  21:13   if property taxes go away, what replaces them? Realtor.com recently had a terrific article about this that you can look up the property tax revolt is spreading, but the replacement plan isn't let's look at the probability and possibility of eliminating property tax. Think about how property tax elimination would increase the value of your property well, because now every buyer could afford to pay more, since they won't have that property tax expense. And of course, if you were to remove property tax as a line item from your income and expense statement, your cash flow could double, triple, or even five or 10x depending on your current cash, on cash return. But that cash flow part is less likely because most efforts to eliminate the property tax, they focus on homes, primary residences. Well, several states have either active legislation efforts or these sort of informal grassroots movements to significantly cut down or just totally abolish property tax, but no state has fully eliminated them yet. The most prominent efforts are in five states, most notably Florida, where Governor Ron DeSantis has made the most noise about it. He proposed eliminating property taxes on homesteaded which are primary residence properties, and he aims for a constitutional amendment on the November ballot to achieve this, that is 10 months from now. And that proposal, it's still pretty early in the legislative stages, and the state is also considering property tax rebates in the meantime. Now, even if you own rental property, and property tax were only eliminated on primary residences, it would still cause the value of your property to boom pretty nicely, even if it didn't help the cash flow. The state that's made the second most noise is Ohio. A grassroots organization has called Citizens for property tax reform. They have actively campaigned to place a constitutional amendment on their ballot that would just totally abolish property taxes statewide. Third most is Kansas. They propose legislation and that aims to effectively bump up sales tax to replace property tax. The fourth out of five is North Dakota. Let's look at what they're doing following a failed 2024, ballot measure to just totally abolish the property tax outright. Well, there's a new proposal from the governor, and that seeks this phased out elimination for most homeowners over a decade. And see, North Dakota has a slightly better chance of pulling that off, because they can fund that from the state's Legacy Fund, that's their oil well fund, and then making the fifth most abolition of property tax noise is my home state of Pennsylvania. Lawmakers have introduced bills to eliminate all property tax. They also aim for a constitutional amendment to put that issue before the voters. So they are the five states that have made the most noise, and that's what their approach is.    Keith Weinhold  24:43   Now, seemingly for most of my life, homeowners and landlords have griped about property tax, saying it's the most ridiculous tax of them all, because you pay it year after year after year in perpetuity. And it just never goes away. Unlike other taxes that are just a one time tax, even if your property's mortgage is paid off, you still have a house payment, and that is largely due to property tax. Understand, though, that currently a lot of states give you a reduced property tax once you reach a senior age, usually age 65 plus some start as low as 61 but when it comes to eliminating the property tax, there's a part of the conversation that's really important, and it has been notably absent, and that is a novel solution to replace the lost revenue. And it gets rather interesting to look around and see where else the money might be raised if they eliminate property tax. See, and this is really important to understand, property taxes generate 70% of local revenue, up to 90% of school funding and 25% of all state and local tax revenue in aggregate in Florida. Okay, that's just in Florida those numbers, but a lot of states have a similar scenario, and in Florida, that comes out to about $50 billion a year. That is a big hole to plug, that is a big gap to fill, and it underlines both the burden homeowners are currently shouldering and how hard it's going to be to fill that gap with anything that's more stable or equitable, that's going to last as a funding source, yes, 90% of school funding. You heard that, right? If you talk to an old timer, you know sometimes you still hear an elderly person refer to property taxes as school taxes. So see, this question of, Do you want to abolish property taxes? One reason that's become louder and louder these past few years, and why you hear more about it is due to that increased affordability strain. That's why you're hearing more about it now the question, do you want to abolish property taxes? That is the wrong question. A grassroots push to AX the property tax that's gained traction, really, among some senior homeowners facing property tax bills that are as high as their mortgage. Once was last summer, for example, in Mahoning County, Ohio, the tax delinquency rate hit 18% almost one in five people having trouble paying their property tax, and that county had more than 70 million in unpaid property taxes. In some neighborhoods in Youngstown, as many as one in three homeowners were behind. And in Cuyahoga County, which is basically Cleveland, values jumped 32% on average after reassessments that fueled a $60 million dollar increase in past due balances this whole do we want to abolish property taxes? Question? You're going to see why that's the wrong question and why it's incomplete, because that slogan that skips the only part that really matters here, and that is, what is the replacement plan, realistically, taxpayers should be asked if, in lieu of property tax, they'd rather pay higher sales taxes or higher income taxes, or for those with no state income tax, like Texas or Florida, pay one for the first time. I don't like those answers. I wish governments would spend more efficiently, but that's not the angle that we're looking at here. Property taxes are the true lifeblood of local governments. I mean, they fund everything from public safety to roads to schools, and just because property taxes disappear, well that doesn't mean that the need for firefighters goes away, that the need for police officers goes away, or the infrastructure for public school systems is going to be gone, or the roads go away. So if property taxes are cut, then another revenue generating device has to emerge to keep services funded and running. And it's a little funny. I've been talking about certain states here. But of course, property taxes are exacted and assessed at the county and local level. And look, I mean, you know how the world works, you know what the nature of society is. As soon as someone has their income stream, they quickly grow into that lifestyle and the new larger spending pattern. So taking away an existing income stream or even reducing it a little, I mean, that can almost trigger outrage and protests, for example, the outcry that we had last year about cutting snap payments. But it works this way. With anything. I mean, sheesh. For the majority of Americans, if you cut their income even 10% they would struggle to survive. They would struggle to put food in the fridge. So these repeal the property tax campaigns, they often avoid the reality of the replacement math.    Keith Weinhold  30:19   Now, some states have taken a swing at replacing property tax revenue, but few, if any, have succeeded. Now, Nebraska lawmakers, what they did is they floated higher cigarette taxes as a way to fund a goal of cutting their property taxes by 40% I mean, nice try. But according to an analysis by the Tax Foundation, that tax base was far too small. I mean to tell you more about what a terrible miss. This example is Nebraska cigarette taxes. They raised about $52 million in 2024 while property taxes raised $5.3 billion that is 100 times more, not even close, even if you could raise more money in the short run, excise revenues like this cigarette tax, they're pretty volatile, and they often shrink as the demand ebbs and flows. So it really makes them a poor backbone for expenses that grow over time, and they don't eliminate the cost so much as concentrated. So what they do is they sort of shift this broad civic obligation funding all this stuff, police, fire, school, from homeowners onto a much narrower group, in this case, people who smoke. That is not going to work for Nebraska, all right, well, what about a bigger deal, like replacing it with sales tax? Well, they run into a different problem. Local economies are not built the same. You might have a sales tax heavy tourist County, well, they can raise far more money than an agricultural county. And Florida is a clear illustration. They have lots of tourism and lots of agriculture replacing property taxes with sales tax. That would require eye popping sales tax rates too. According to the Tax Foundation Florida statewide, they would have to go from 7% to over 15% sales tax in Florida. But it gets even worse, because counties with a thin sales tax base would have to charge over 32% sales tax. My gosh, that is not going to work, all right. Well, how about another big one? Let's have income taxes replace property tax in a lot of states. I mean, the income tax that's large enough to raise pretty meaningful revenue. But the trade off is that income taxes come with their own sort of economic and political distortions, and once they're added, you know, they rarely stay confined to the tidy swap that voters were promised. I mean, look at New Jersey. They adopted an income tax in the 1970s to provide property tax relief, but over time, that swap proved hard to manage and hard to enforce, and now today, New Jersey has one of the highest effective property tax and state income tax rates combined in the nation. So the point is that all these property tax replacement tools are just inherently piecemeal. Each tax or fee has like this different payer base or some different vulnerability. I mean, if tourism dips, for example, revenues could drop really fast. And the same is true if a regulated industry contracts, or if consumption patterns shift. And you know that volatility, that's manageable for some narrow program, but that is dangerous as the foundation for essential services like public safety and street maintenance and police and schools and fire. Well, how about forgetting all that? Let's just have the government then totally get out of providing public safety and not have the government provide street maintenance and have the government get out of schools. I mean, we used to have more private companies provide you with some of those services. We didn't even have a federal income tax at all until 1913 other than a temporary one to fund the Civil War. But all of that is a bigger topic that we are not going to get into today. The point is, instead of asking the question, do you want to abolish property taxes? The better question is, which replacement are you choosing and who pays for it? Because local costs come on, they're just not likely to shrink anytime soon. After all, all of this schools, fire and police departments, public works, divisions, they're all subject to the same inflation and the same rising costs as the rest of the economy is so the property tax is unpopular. As it is, it does have one functional advantage. It is tied to this immovable base of properties. It's collected locally, and it's designed to fund on going services. That is not to say that some homeowners don't need relief. Some of them clearly do. But eliminating property taxes, that just does not eliminate the underlying cost of government. All it does is reallocate it, and that reallocation can get messy, that shifts a bigger burden onto a smaller share of taxpayers, whether it's smokers, like it was in Nebraska, or whether it's rural shoppers like the Florida sales tax example, or doubly on working homeowners, like it is in the New Jersey income tax example. I have studied this, and I have not seen novel approaches that really keep communities funded without creating some new distortion somewhere else. But unfortunately, one thing that I have seen is this repeal rhetoric, and it makes these political platitudes all that want to just conveniently skip the replacement plan, but it all sounds good and popular when someone stands up there and says that they want to eliminate property taxes. So really the honest question on a ballot. It's not, do you want to abolish property taxes? The honest question is, are you willing to pay higher sales taxes or higher income taxes or adopt one for the first time and accept the distortions that those choices to create to eliminate the property tax? I'm not going to get into the political side of all this, because that's not what we do here. The bottom line is, though, that you're probably going to hear more about the property tax going away. It is unlikely, of course, as income property investors here, property tax is largely built into the rent. It is passed along to your tenant, and a small reduction would help you out, probably not so much on your cash flow side, since most of these proposals are only for primary residences, but even a small property tax reduction on primary residences that would boost all property values, even rental property in the one to four unit space. But you shouldn't expect much here. If property taxes are eliminated, there is just no easy and viable replacement. That's your answer today, if you represent a company that serves real estate investors get rich. Education has over 3 million IAB certified downloads and 5.8 million total listener downloads. You can learn more about advertising on the show at getricheducation.com/ad, that's get rich education.com/ad   Speaker 2  37:51   for the production team here at GRE, that's our sound engineer, bedroom jampo, who has edited every single GRE podcast episode since 2014 QC and show notes Brenda Almendariz, video lead, Binaya Gyawali, strategy Tallah Mugal, video editor, Saroza KC and producer me, we'll run it back next week for you. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, Don't Quit Your Daydream.   Speaker 3  38:17   nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  38:45   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, getricheducation.com  

                                  Listen in as Erin and Sharon discuss: How early exposure to money conversations and entrepreneurship shaped her lifelong mission around financial literacy and empowerment Why one of her "worst" business decisions ultimately led to her best life decision — and how closing one door often opens many others The powerful distinction between chasing income vs. building assets — and why assets only get "sexier" with time. Sharon introduces the core message of her upcoming book Old Wealth, New Wealth, True Wealth — redefining success as who you become, not just what you earn.  A reminder that it's never too late to start, pivot, or rebuild — especially when guided by mentorship, clarity, and aligned risk tolerance.                                            About Sharon Lechter is internationally recognized as a financial literacy expert, keynote speaker and business mentor. She is a 5 time New York Times Bestselling author, successful entrepreneur, philanthropist, and enjoyed a 35 year career as a licensed CPA. She has advised two US Presidents on the topic of financial literacy. Sharon co-authored the international bestseller Rich Dad Poor Dad and 14 other books in the Rich Dad series. In 2008, when the economy crashed, she was asked by the Napoleon Hill Foundation to help re-energize the teachings of Napoleon Hill. Her best-selling Think and Grow Rich books with the Foundation include Three Feet from Gold, Outwitting the Devil, Think and Grow Rich for Women and Success and Something Greater. She is also featured in the movie Think and Grow Rich: The Legacy and on the national television series World's Greatest Motivators. In 2021, Sharon's title, Exit Rich was released to support entrepreneurs in building value and scalability in their businesses so they can be in the position of greatest potential. Her newest title, How Money Works for Women was released in cooperation with WealthWave Media, a leading publisher of financial education materials in support of women taking control of their financial wellbeing. Sharon's numerous accolades include most recently an Independent Press award, Trailblazer Legend award and the Presidential Lifetime Achievement award. Sharon continues to drive innovation through technology in collaboration with IQ Hall, a cutting-edge AI-powered educational platform endorsed by UNESCO and aligned with United Nations Sustainable Development Goals. How to Connect With Sharon Website: www.sharonlechter.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sharonlechter/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/AuthorSharonLechter/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sharonlechter/

Keith explores why the real goal of building wealth isn't luxury—it's protecting yourself from the emotional and practical pain of money stress.  You'll hear how owning the right kinds of assets can change your lifestyle options over time, and why waiting on the sidelines can quietly erode your financial future. Keith also pulls back the curtain on a major, often overlooked force that has helped keep real estate values resilient for years, and what that means for anyone thinking about adding more property to their portfolio.  Finally, you'll get a sense of the kinds of opportunities and strategies listeners are using right now to move from just getting by to playing to win in their wealth building journey. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/587 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, more important than building wealth is avoiding poverty. It's backed up by research. Learn about a force that constantly gives a boost to real estate values that you probably haven't considered before, and own assets or get left behind. I discuss a plan for doing it today on get rich education.   Speaker 1  0:29   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:14   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:30   Welcome to GRE from Dar es Salaam Tanzania to Darlington, South Carolina, and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is get rich education the voice of real estate investing since 2014 and it's a new year, part of the reason why you need to build durable wealth for yourself is actually not to be wealthy. It's really to avoid a lack of wealth. It's in order to pad yourself against poverty. Now, shortly, I want to talk to you more aspirationally if you are or soon plan to make 500k per year or more.    Keith Weinhold  2:15   But first, there are a number of studies that show that beyond a certain level, more wealth barely increases your happiness level. In fact, if you ask many people, they say that doubling their income or doubling their net worth is what they really want, like, that's their goal. Like, in their mind, that's the benchmark in which they've made it. And you know what, when they double their income, though, then they want to double it again. They think that that is the next benchmark. So there can be this endless amount of wanting, because once you've doubled, you just want to keep doubling. But what's really more important is padding against money problems, because if having a little more doesn't change your happiness much, well, it's poverty that can really diminish a level of happiness and fulfillment in your life. So money problems don't just hurt your wallet. They actually hurt your emotions. And this isn't just some motivational poster idea, the statistics are clear. Multiple studies show that when money is scarce, when paying the regular bills feels like a monthly street fight, people report more sadness, more worry and even depression, not just sometimes, but constantly. The reality is that about 71% of Americans say that money is a major source of stress. My gosh, more than seven out of 10. So that's not a fringe category. That's the norm that say money is a major source of stress. Another study found that 42% of adults say money negatively affects their mental health. So close to half of the people walking around you right now feel emotionally beat up by their financial situation, and the gap gets even wider when you compare groups, when people experience serious financial hardship, nearly half, 49% show signs of depression among people without any financial hardship, only about 11% of that group show signs of depression. And Northwestern Mutual did an extensive study on all this. So it's not just a small difference, it's a completely different emotional reality, almost like two separate worlds. To put it plainly. For you, money will not guarantee happiness, but a lack of money can absolutely fuel sadness, and this matters. Because financial confidence isn't just about dollars. It's about dignity. It's about feeling like you're able to breathe, and it's about believing that your future can be bigger than your past. I mean, the research also shows the relationship flows in both directions. Money stress can make mental health worse, and poor mental health can make financial decision making harder. So it's sort of this loop, this cycle. And what breaks the cycle? It's not luck. It's not hoping the economy magically fixes all of its problems. It is going on offense, taking steps that build security instead of surrender, for most people, that turning point comes when they start owning assets, not just paying bills. It comes when money stops being a source of fear and it starts being a tool. Because though we focus on real estate investing here at GRE but ultimately it is a lifestyle improvement show. And before we're done today, I'm going to talk about what you can actionably do to go on offense. Now, what if you already have a higher income, or you expect to make a high income in the near term, if you're earning roughly $500,000 per year or more, and you value time efficiency in making sure that you don't live a rough quality of life. You are on the threshold of a tier that helps ensure that you can avoid some misery. Yes, there is a step change here that can help ensure you have a higher standard of living. Do you know what I might be talking about? Any idea 500k of income is where it begins now. It's only beginning here. At this point, to make sense, where you tilt into starting to fly private instead of flying commercial. Yeah, private flights. Now your situation is going to depend on more than just the income. It's whether or not you're single or you have kids and more, but it's at this income level where you can start to cover a $10,000 flight without biting into your essential living expenses. It's most justifiable when your time savings or your productivity gains translate into real value. I'm talking about things like business deals, meetings and schedules and the benefits of flying privately are pretty significant. Time efficiency is the real superpower here, drive up to the plane, wheels up in minutes. The flexibility is there. You can leave pretty much when you want. You can change your flight plans mid trip if you need to. You get access to smaller airports. That means you can land closer to your final destination and skip big city traffic congestion. You've got privacy and security, no crowds, no TSA stuff. You've got quality of experience, comfort, quiet cabins, custom catering, no competing for overhead bin space. Now even affordable private is still pretty expensive. It is substantially more than first class commercial seats, and I have had limited experience flying private, but at 500k of income, flying private can still feel like a stretch, even though it's doable for you, a more comfortable range is a million dollars or more of annual income, that's when private flights feel much easier to justify for business or lifestyle. Now, with $2 million of annual income or more, most heavy private flyers live here in this range, the $2 million plus income level, they can charter, they can fractionally own, or they can use memberships, all with less stress. When you earn this much, and if you're ultra high net worth, we're talking about $5 million worth of income plus or $20 million worth of net worth plus, well, then private flying is really commonplace. This is where you often have a personal jet, concierge services and flexibility on demand. So as the first episode of the year here, I want to give you some opportunity to dream and goal set. Yeah, you need to stretch out and give space to your aspirations sometimes, and this is a good time to do that, really, though, a more important reason for increasing your income and net worth is that it helps you avoid the discomfort of poverty. But yeah, come on, if nothing else, can you believe that before every commercial flight you have to hear that nonsense about how to inflate a raft if you're. Plane crashes in the water, or you could use your seat as a personal flotation device. Come on your seat. Can't even support your back for a three hour flight. If there's ever been a reason to invest Well, it's so that you never have to hear that stuff again before every flight chase    Keith Weinhold  10:19   last week here on the show, you'll learn more about how stable real estate prices are, why prices have never crashed in your entire life, and also why they can't double in one year. Real Estate is too slow moving 30 days between you making your offer and you closing the deal, that's actually considered pretty fast. In fact, if national home prices ever crash, I will legally change my first name to Fabrice, yes, Fabrice, I would also do that if they doubled in a year. It is almost impossible for either of those things to happen. You learned about how these things have not happened in your entire lifetime on last week's show, yes, even in 2008 in the last 85 years, nominal home prices have risen every single year, except seven of them now. Why is that? Why are the prices of US housing so resilient and just keep going up up up, almost inexorably? Well, it's actually more than just the main well documented reasons that you know about and that we've talked about here. It's about more than these attributes, like population growth, household formation, wage growth, inflation, eroding the currency and land scarcity in desirable areas beyond all of those, one reason that home values just keep going up, up up and are expected to rise again this year is something that We have not discussed yet, and that is government intervention? Yes, in the US and a lot of world places, housing is not a free market. We have a free ish market that sort of comes with training wheels and support animals. Think about how the government helps ensure that home prices stay propped up even through most recessions. We're talking about attributes like ever expanding loan access and mortgage interest deductibility. Then there's depreciation in write offs for investors like us and property tax structures that lag market value when loans have lower down payment requirements or a lowering of credit score requirements and ever expanding loan limits in terms of dollar amounts, well, that increases the demand for those that have the capacity to pay, and it nudges up prices even more incentives, like deducting your mortgage interest in tax depreciation when you don't even have a real expense, but yet you get to write it off anyway. It all heaps on the government driven demand for real estate Now none of these individual things, these government interventions, raise prices overnight, they increase demand structurally. There's evidence that the government is doing even more in recent years to prop up housing demand than they have in the past. This is increasingly a propensity to not let housing fail like it did in 2008 I mean, just look at covid During 2020, and 2021, what a glaring example of how government will prop up home values and not let them fall down if you lost your job during covid. Oh, we'll give you mortgage loan forbearance. That's where you could skip. Oh, just say nine monthly payments, and then you can just tack those nine payments onto the end of your 30 year loan and make those payments decades from now. There was a foreclosure moratorium in effect then too, so you've got forbearance and low rates and stimulus checks and a ban on foreclosures. Well, all of that helped borrowers make payments, and that supported home price growth. There was no fire sailing, really, that could have taken place then, and you will recall that during that time period, in fact, the year 2021 national home prices soared 19% so housing is not a completely free market. You really don't have to look very far to know that. I mean, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac are both still government sponsored and still in conservatorship. And here's the thing, so far, I've only talked about how government has propped up the demand side. Side of the market. I've only talked about half of it. Don't forget the sometimes unintentional supply restriction the governments induce as well keeping housing supply in check. Well, that helps drive price appreciation. I'm talking about the zoning spaghetti that new homebuilders have to navigate through the permit purgatory, minimum lot sizes that can seem larger than some European countries, environmental reviews that last longer than the movie Avengers. Endgame was that a three hour, two minute movie, all of these roadblocks limit new housing supply that makes it harder to build. So governments provide an ever present tailwind to housing values by both boosting demand and by crimping supply. Government amplifies these forces, sometimes intentionally and sometimes unintentionally, but the result is the same propping up housing values. If all these years since coming out of the Great Recession have shown us anything, and the 2020 pandemic reinforced it, it is to either own assets or get left behind. You've got to own assets or you will be left behind, and that's whether you're trying to stay away from poverty, like I talked about at the top of the show, or whether you're aiming to fly private instead of commercial, something more aspirational, really. That's the lesson I've got more straight ahead here. There will only ever be one get rich education podcast episode 587 and you're listening to it.    Keith Weinhold  16:43   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach directly again. 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  17:54   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Dana Dunford  18:27   this is hemlane's co founder, Dana Dunford. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream. You Keith,   Keith Weinhold  18:45   welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, we're talking about new angles with respect to how the future belongs to asset owners. Every year, people say, This is my year, but only a few actually take the action to back that up and make it come true. One thing that I've learned is that people love saying, I want an opportunity, but what they really want is certainty. Unfortunately, certainty only shows up after opportunity is gone. History is full of people who walked past moments like this now owning more of an asset like real estate today, and instead they just look and say, Oh, it's probably nothing. Well, what about alternatives? What's your employer's plan for you? I mean, really, what's a typical employer's plan for employees spend 40 years here at this desk, and I guarantee that you'll become moderately comfortable with a nice 401K balance that you can start withdrawing from by the time you're age 65 at which time you'll start paying taxes on it too. So really, that's it. That's their plan for you. Yes, that's their plan for you. Though, as you know, I do not forecast mortgage rates. No one, not one analyst or rating agency, expects mortgage rates to fall substantially any time soon as we look at the real estate landscape, in fact, among 21 different major research groups, which include PNC Bank, Redfin, Moody's, wells, Fargo, the NAR totality, if you average what their forecasts are, one year from now, mortgage rates are expected to be at the same level that they are today, which is about 6.2% if you want to add more assets, prices are probably only going to be higher one year from now. The Fed is involved in QE like behavior again, which resumed last month, that gives the effect of more money printing, and it provides an environment for a continued price run up across not just real estate, but nearly every asset class. Current CPI inflation is 2.7% and long term inflation expectations are elevated. The Fed is cutting rates. The current Fed funds rate is about 3.6% and the President wants the Fed funds rate cut to 1% central banks are stockpiling gold, and the US dollar just had its worst year since 2017 so a lot is lining up to keep supporting housing values. Now, when we zoom out, starting back in 2012 us home prices have now risen 14 years in a row, and the average annual gain since that time is about 6% which is sustainable and close to historic norms. Year after year. Some people keep waiting for the right moment, and meanwhile, the right moment just keeps passing them by. And look, now here's a really interesting way for you to look at things from a long time investor like me, I have bought a wide variety of investment real estate over the years. I bought single family homes to both live in and single family homes to rent out vacant land, agricultural parcels, small apartment buildings and larger apartment buildings on every single one at the time when I purchased it, it was the most that anyone had ever paid for that property in that property's history, and if there were bids and I ended up getting the property, then I was the highest bidder as well. So on. Effectively, every single property purchase of my life, I paid more than anyone ever. And if someone had no understanding of the real estate market. They might think that that sounded bad, like I executed with a poor strategy or a lack of experience or direction, but that's just usually how it works in real estate, with the incessant postulation of almost unceasing appreciation and inflation, and years later, when it was time for me to sell the property, what were those conditions like? What happened then? You guessed it, I sold it for the most that it had ever sold for. So for that next buyer, that was the most then that anyone had ever paid for the property in history, yet again, and if it was a bidding situation, chances are I sold it to the highest bidder. So therefore, that has nothing to do with luck, that has nothing to do with timing, that is simply being an active participant in the real estate market and enjoying the leverage and all the other benefits all the while. So history shows that trying to time things based on market conditions or what you think market conditions are going to be, that does not work. What does work is owning more assets sooner. Every property that you purchase, expect to pay more for it than anyone ever has in that property's history. And then every property that you sell down the road, expect that you're going to sell it for more than what anyone has ever sold it for. Historically, that is normal. Now if your net worth is below $1 million or even below $5 million you really can't play the game not to lose. That's what keeps people stuck. You've got to play to win. The world already has your money. If you want access to it, you have simply got to go out. Out and get it. You play offense now, and you can play defense later, when your financial position is where you want it really and here's a huge insight, more money is lost trying to avoid a downturn than is lost actually being in the market when one finally happens, like I've discussed lately, real estate price downturns are uncommon. Sitting out and waiting is a wealth killer, because even if a downturn does happen, well, if you're already invested, you are positioned for the upturn. You're going to get the full measure of the upturn. That's where the real gains are, and this is where real estate is different. Leverage just keeps working for you. In the background, your 401, k does not do that. There's no leverage beyond maybe a two to one employer match, and then you get taxed when you finally touch the money. Some people like to gamble a little play a prediction market like poly market. Have something in Bitcoin, maybe even have exposure to a risky altcoin. I guess the NFL playoffs start this coming weekend. Some people want to bet on that and have their fun. Maybe even be invested in a high flying tech stock, or even the sp500. These vehicles rarely build wealth when you're actually young enough to enjoy it, because you're probably unleveraged there, you're exposed. You've only got your dollars working for you, not others, and you sure can do some of that day to day stuff. Go on polymarket and bet on when man will first land on Mars or something. Have your fun while the real wealth is built by the quiet, slow moving leverage of your larger real estate portfolio. In the background. Real estate, you can put 20 to 25% down on a 200k income property and control the whole thing. That's what investors are doing with our GRE marketplace properties right now, often in a low cost market like, say, Kansas City or Memphis, say that, for example, you're looking to add four doors this year, four rental units. Now that might take the form of one duplex and two new build Florida single family rentals. Now, with about 250k you can control $1 million of property adding assets this year. And here at GRE our nationwide provider network connects you with the real deals, and our providers often tell us about them before the public knows, for example, the properties where the builder still in this environment buys your rate down to perhaps four and a half percent. That is still happening. And why do the properties that our GRE investment coaches connect you with seem like such good deals at times? Well, there's a few reasons for that. Investor advantage markets just intrinsically have low prices. There's no agent that you have to compensate. It's a direct model that keeps the price down. These providers provide homes in bulk that helps keep the price down. And since we're dealing with investment properties, income producing properties, there are not any of these owner occupied emotions, so you don't get unreasonable sellers that hold out for a high price because there's some sentimental attachment there, or something like that.    Keith Weinhold  28:38   Let me give you three examples of real properties that our GRE investment coaching helps connect you with right now, and this is the place to be entry level homes, because entry level homes are few long term you are going to own a scarce asset that everybody wants. The first one is a brand new build single family rental in Cullman, Alabama. That's right between Birmingham and Huntsville, booming Huntsville. Now this property is currently vacant. However, it's in an A class neighborhood, so good appreciation potential, but less cash flow on this one, the rent is $2,100 the purchase price is 317k Yes, just 317k for this five bed, three bath, 2500 square foot rental, single family home. That's new build. One advantage Alabama has, and why we often have available Alabama properties is that really low property tax in that state you're going to benefit from a low fixed expense ratio over the long term. Alabama, property taxes are well under 1% per year as a percentage of the property value. In fact, at less than 410 Tax of 1% Alabama has the lowest property taxes in the entire continental United States. Only Hawaii has a lower one, where you're going to find a national average of 1% or a little more than 1% the second property is also brand new construction. It is a duplex in Goddard, Kansas, which is outside Wichita, each side of the duplex has three beds, two baths and 1300 68 square feet combined. Rents both sides are $3,500 and the purchase price is 447k and it is leased. Both sides are rented out. You can contact our free investment coaching and scoop up this or one like it today, and I'm looking at pictures of this really good looking new build duplex in the Wichita area. Looks like a two car garage on both sides, really attractive. And again, on these new builds, oftentimes the homebuilder is still buying down your mortgage rate for you, often under 5% the last one I'll mention, and I'm just giving you three samples to help give you an idea here. And if you're listening to this in a few years, you'll probably wish you could purchase these at prices this low. This last one is not new builds. Unfortunately, I can't quickly find the year of construction, but it looks older. It is a Kansas City single family rental, fully renovated. The cash flow numbers are super attractive. $2,100 rent on a purchase price of just $227,500 and free property management for two years is offered here on this renovated Kansas single family rental. Our investment coaching can answer questions about it for you. When something's renovated, you definitely want to see what the scope of work is. And there are also larger properties available. If you're looking to trade up some of your properties with accumulated equity into something else, we can help build an entire portfolio for you, or you might currently be only invested in one market, where we can help you determine what second market might make sense for you based on your time horizon and your own goals. Hey, maybe you've got a private plane in a decade kind of goal, or maybe we'll help you find out that adding more property does not make sense for you at this time in your situation, even though the opportunities are pretty good right now, because compared to two years ago, the inventory to select from is wider today, And the mortgage rates are lower now too GRE investment coaches are your free trusted advisors. It's like having a silent partner on your deal, someone who gives you insight but doesn't take any equity. There's no compensation for you to provide at all. It's about your portfolio, your goals and your direction. And our coaches also help you with services related to managing your real estate assets long term, like your tax and CPA questions, legal questions, though, that's pretty limited, because we're not attorneys here. For example, what happens if you have an appraisal surprise and the appraisal comes in lower than the amount that you've contracted to buy a property for, we help you with something like that, any inventory issues or inspection issues and property management guidance that you might need. In fact, if you've engaged with our free investment coaching in the past, even a few years ago, and we helped you find a property and say, now you have some sort of property management issue. Let us know. Keep in touch with your GRE investment coach. You tell someone like Naresh here, and he will step in. And when you set up a time to chat, which you can do at greinvestmentcoach.com There's really nothing special that you need to do to prepare if you can bring a 20% down payment. Now the ball is already rolling, and in today's environment with closing costs, that's usually about a 50k minimum. It helps if you're pre approved for a mortgage loan with Ridge lending group, or whomever your lender of choice is. What's interesting is that these deals are good. These are real estate pays five ways, properties that our coaches help connect you with. So sometimes we are buying these properties ourselves here at GRE. We have in the past, but there is no way we can buy them all, not even close. That means that an opportunity remains for you. Yes, we are real estate investors ourselves here at GRE, right now, there are better properties available than ones that we've bought ourselves recently, and there is more overall selection too. You can easily see the coach's calendar, select a time and then have a phone call or a zoom chat, whatever you like. If. From there. Our coaches usually give you their phone number, so then later, you can even text them. Our coach, Naresh, he responded to someone on Thanksgiving. That's the level of dedication here. So here's the next step. Book a time at GREinvestmentcoach.com you can do that now. That's where the calendar lives. There's no back and forth. Just pick a time right there that works. It's Free. Select a 30 minute time slot, and lately they've been available seven days a week. And you're going to walk away with clarity on your goals, your timeline and what's realistic for you, if you're tired of watching from the sidelines, tired of trying not to lose, tired of waiting for perfect conditions, and conditions are never perfect, well, this is your moment to play to win. It's pretty easy to remember to connect with a GRE investment coach. Visit greinvestmentcoach.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  36:10   Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  36:38   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get richeducation.com  

Keith shares a mindset-shifting quote from John D. Rockefeller that challenges the idea of trading time for money.  He revisits some of the year's most powerful real estate investing lessons, and breaks down the big forces shaping today's housing market—affordability, supply & demand, demographics, and interest rates.  All of this sets the stage for his data-driven national home price outlook for next year—without the usual crash-and-doom hype. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/586 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:00   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, learn from a quote attributed to the world's first billionaire, it will change how you see wealth building. I'll explain why national home prices have never crashed. Then it's gre, 2026, home price appreciation forecast. You'll learn the future the exact percent that home prices will appreciate or depreciate next year. Today on get rich education   Speaker 1  0:29   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:14   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:30   Welcome to GRE from Lake Huron, Michigan to Lake Tahoe, California and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education. You know something I love, quotes that shift your entire mindset, paradigm, and once your mind is shifted, actions follow. Actions develop into patterns. Those patterns become habits, and habits become the new, transformed you few quotes hit harder than the one from resource tycoon John D Rockefeller. He lived from 1839 to 1937 in fact, Rockefeller is widely regarded as the world's first billionaire. His quote, you might have heard it before. It is this, he who works all day has no time to make money. That sounds paradoxical, even provocative. It's sort of like it's inviting you to come in and want to learn more about it. And this is because most people's concept of income generating is to work 40 hours a week for a salary or an hourly wage. But what does that quote really mean? He who works all day has no time to make money, and be sure to capture the all day part of that quote that ties right back into the show that I did with you two weeks ago about the K shaped economy breakdown, where you learned about how capital compounds labor doesn't most people sell their time for dollars, but trading time for money makes you too busy to actually build Wealth. Working and building wealth. Those things are two separate distinct activities in how you're investing your time and energy. Now, most people start out with a wage or a salary job. I surely worked by pushing brooms and cubicle dwelling before investing in my first rental property. But if you're working all day in a job, physically or mentally well, then you're consumed by tasks that only pay you. Once you're occupied, you can often get exhausted and you're only concerned with short term output. You're focused on the next deadline, not the next decade, when all your hours are spent on labor, you have no bandwidth to do what you need to do, which is, create vision, acquire assets, build a portfolio, develop systems, learn tax strategy, evaluate investment deals, network with like minded investors, or refine your strategy with a GRE investment coach. Be cognizant that labor only pays today. Wealth building pays forever. Even if your work a day job, salary doubled, you would have to ask, how would that even build wealth? You could retire earlier, but you would have to keep working the hours, and let's remember that wealth equals freedom. You can't architect a wealth plan from the assembly line. Now, that's something that Rockefeller would have agreed with. Wealth requires less. Leverage and labor has none. So working all day means no leverage. You are the engine instead making money, that means using leverage, and instead of you being the engine, well, the engine is something else, like assets, systems, technology, other people's time, other people's money, and borrowing to inflation profit. Rockefeller believed and proved that leverage beats labor 100 to one. He's not discouraging work. In fact, it's just the wrong type of work, because he was one of the hardest working people alive. And really the bottom line here, with this quote, he who works all day has no time to make money, is that Rockefeller meant that if you spend your life doing tasks, you'll never rise high enough to own things that pay you for life. Earning a living is a different activity than building wealth, and once your mindset is shifted, actions follow, yep, actions develop into patterns, and those patterns become the new you. well as the last episode of the year on the show here, 52 weeks worth, I sure hope that I've helped you think, learn and grow your wealth, as have our guest contributors here early in the year, the father of Reaganomics was here, a man that frequently advised a president inside the White House. He told us how much he dislikes tariffs. Tariffs block free trade, and trade improves our lives. Major apartment investor, Ken McElroy, was here this year, and he predicted that the American home ownership rate will fall below 60% that would be major it's currently at 65 if the home ownership rate falls to 60% that would unleash millions of new renters into the market, and it has not been that low in decades, if ever you got a lot of mortgage insights with chailey Ridge, including learning how you can qualify for income property loans without a w2 job, without a pay stub or without tax returns by instead getting a DSCR loan. You'll recall this year that I discussed 50 year mortgages, and I did that before it even hit the news cycle, telling you that it could be coming and that it could be proposed. I explained why I like 50 year mortgages more than 30 year loans, but be aware it is not imminent that they're coming. Also this year, economist Richard Duncan and commentator Doug Casey discussed the Fed. Richard told us how the President is trying to totally restructure who serves on the Fed, trying to get low interest rate pushers in there. And then just last week, Doug and I discussed how fed decisions just keep hollowing out the middle class. A and E television star Todd drillette told us how to negotiate. I had four good discussions with our own investment coach, nuresh this year, more than usual, a pastor and I discussed a rare topic, what the Bible says about money. You learned how to use AI in your real estate investing and when not to. We had a few episodes about that. But above all the shows this year, they were about you, probably more than any other year that we've had here. I did more listener question episodes where I answered your questions as you wrote in, and I also had more listeners come right onto the show and tell me how this show has personally built their wealth. And of course, this year, I got to meet more of you in person when I served as a faculty member on the terrific real estate guys Investor Summit to see and I got to meet you personally for more than just a handshake. The event was set up so that chances are you had dinner with me as well. So rather than this show being a one way chat from me to you this year was more of a dialog between you and I and more two way communication. A lot of new topics are coming for next year, both me teaching and some great guests. If there's something on the show that you'd like to hear more of or less of, let us know. Write into us or use your voice to tell us either way you can do that. At get rich education.com/contact, let us know what you want to hear more of or less of. Do you like shorter term tactics like when and how to increase the rent? Or do you like mid range tactics like how to constantly do cash out refinances and get a tax free windfall from your properties every year. Or do you like more of the long term strategies like specifically how you profit from inflation? Let us know what you like again, at get rich education.com/contact, now, even if you're listening 10 years. Years from now, which I know you very well. May, I'm going to break down next year's home price appreciation forecast, but I'll do it in a way where you'll learn how to analyze a market for all time coming up. It's gre 2026, national home price appreciation forecast. Learn the future to the exact percent. First listen to this from Freedom family investments and Ridge lending group, because I'm a client of both myself and they can help you. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold   Keith Weinhold  10:29   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family, investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Speaker 2  11:40   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally. While it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Robert Kiyosaki  12:14   this is our Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Author Robert Kiyosaki. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold. And there is, I respect Kate. He's a very strong, smart, bright young man.   Keith Weinhold  12:35   Welcome back to get rich education. It's episode 586 the last show of the year. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, I am proud to present to you in this segment of the show gre 2026, national home price appreciation forecast, where I use my insight and experience so that you'll learn the exact percent that national home prices will either appreciate or depreciate next year. It's the fifth consecutive year that we're doing this. I nailed the first three spot on and then this year happened. I'll get to reviewing my track record, total accountability. First understand something, real estate values have never crashed in your entire lifetime, even if you're 90 years old, to grab eyeballs, slack jawed, tick tock. Call them crash talk. Economists keep making awful predictions about a housing price crash, and none of them have been worse than one that published last month in Newsweek, which outlines a as it's called, correction worse than 2008 and says national home prices will fall 50% five zero, starting as soon as next year. That's absurd, and I can't believe that a respectable publication would platform a view from an analyst like that, and I'm not going to call out that Doomsayer analyst's name. That's not my style. I'm sure you can find it that crash is about as likely as one social media post changing your political affiliation later today. Look, doomsayers don't care about you. They make dire predictions because they care about them. It elevates their clicks, their followers and their name recognition, and they never hang around to follow up on that prediction, but it harms you, because you miss out on the equity gains, and that's the real damage. In fact, this particular analyst also called for this year to have the second largest home price decline since World War Two. Well, national home prices have only fallen twice in that time period. In fact, going further back. Back to the 1930s Great Depression. They've only fallen twice. Yes, that means home prices have risen every single year since the 1930s except for two periods, a small decline of less than 1% around 1990 and then, of course, the severe downturn from the housing bubble and great recession from 2007 to 2011 or 2012 that's where prices dropped in total, 25 to 26% from peak to trough. Now why do I say that that period around 2008 was not a housing price crash. Well, because it wasn't. Instead, it was a slow bleed. The definition of financial crash is a sudden, sharp and widespread drop in prices. That's the definition. Well that can happen in some other asset classes like stocks or Bitcoin or perhaps even precious metals, but not real estate. It is neither sudden nor sharp. The worst year, 2008 saw home prices drop 12% in that one year and some of the other years bracketing it, home prices fell three to 4% in each of those years. So then during this time period of price attrition, during the global financial crisis, each month, real estate values fell just a few tenths of 1% maybe half of 1% or even one full percent, not a crash, a slow bleed. This means that it took about five years for values to fall, a total of near 25% I mean, that makes it really clear that it's not a crash. And again, this period was about 2007 to 2012 don't get me wrong, it was bad. I was a real estate investor both before and during 2008 but to call it a crash is hyperbolic, and that is because words mean things. I think a lot of media consumers get so conditioned to mass media sensationalism that they've forgotten what a crash even means. At some point, it begins to bend our very lexicon back around 2007 I remember I frequently checked a website called implode meter. Yeah, that's the name of it. It tracks, failing banks. I looked the other day and implodemeter.com is still in existence, even though it's not nearly as spicy as it used to be during the GFC, because lending has been pretty stable for a long time, and loans are well and carefully underwritten. So home prices are unusually stable over time, because, in a sense, housing is not a normal market. It is slow, regulated, credit driven, and it's emotionally sticky, even though rental property is less emotional. Well, the values of one to four unit property are tied to primary residence values, and that's where the emotion exists. So if you put all those together, you get prices that creep upward most years and rarely fall at all. Nationally. The real estate market moves too gradually to be crash susceptible. It is the place for real wealth building values also are not going to double annually if you want to scroll for dopamine hits from the couch. Well, you can do that with a prediction market like call she or in crypto with altcoins, while your real estate keeps leveraging dollars in a stable way in the background. That's how you can think about it. All right, so we've established since the Great Depression, home values have fallen twice and once substantially. Well, right now, home prices are up about 2% year over year. Most places have appreciated, especially the more affordable markets. Not only has home price growth been slow, though, rent growth has been slow as well. Single Family rents are up 1% per totality. Apartment rents are down one to 2% per Zumper. But back to our focus today, forecasting national home prices. Everything we're discussing is nominal price change, meaning not inflation adjusted, and it's single family homes up to fourplexes. Well, as we use context to build up to the big reveal today, where I'll tell you the exact percent that home prices will rise or fall next year. Could 2008 happen again any time soon? Let's isolate that out. It's important to look at history rather than. Having some uninformed hunch in both periods with price attrition around 1990 and 2008 these two falls have some attributes in common. So let's look at that. What led to these rare falls in home prices, irresponsible lending, forced selling, a vacancy issue and overbuilding. All four of those factors were in place during those two periods now leading up to 1990 the irresponsible lending was on the commercial side. That was the savings and loan crisis, but it did trickle into the residential market, and then in 2008 it was on the residential side. But of all four of those factors, none of them are in place today. Zero borrowers are strongly underwritten because they've got those full documentation loans, and virtually no one is forced to sell in a fire sale. In fact, homeowners still have these record equity positions of about 300k fewer than 3% of homeowners have a negative equity position, and there is no vacancy issue. Because, in fact, we've been under building. We'll look at that. So for next year, no substantial price of drawdown is coming. None's expected. We can isolate that out. Since I was investing directly in real estate through 2008 I know what happened is that when people walked away from properties, they did so because the economy got rough, their variable rate mortgages rose, they couldn't make their payments, or they just had no motivation to make their payments because they were underwater and had zero protective equity. In a lot of cases, it's almost impossible for that to happen today, homeowners can make their payments, and they're motivated to do so because they have that erstwhile equity to protect, like I said last week, through the Census Bureau data and realtor.com we know a couple things. Four in 10 homeowners have no mortgage at all. They own their property free and clear. Among the group with mortgages, 70% of borrowers still have a mortgage rate locked in at under 5% and blending those together for you means that then 82% of borrowers either have no mortgage or they've got a rate under 5% this translates to really affordable payments, along with The protective equity, even if inflation heats up again, it still cannot touch a borrower's mortgage payment amount because it is fixed. As we're leading up to the big reveal of next year's number, we're about to look at affordability, supply, demand and the effect of mortgage rates on prices. Of course, that word affordability, that has been the most central word to home buying for a couple years now, affordability will improve in three main ways. If either home prices fall, mortgage rates fall, or wages rise, it takes at least one of those three things, the good news is that this year, wages have been rising faster than both stated inflation and home prices. Wages have been rising close to 4% that looks to continue at least into the early part of next year. Well that improved affordability allows home prices to move up, and it gives room for rents to move up as well. Now when it comes to mortgage rates, if you're new to listening to me, it will be groundbreaking for you to realize that today, mortgage rates are low, and increases to mortgage rates usually lead to increases in home prices, not decreases. If you're new here, both of those facts might leave you saying what I thought it was the opposite. How can that be? I won't spend much time on this because longtime listeners already know these two things, but they do go into the forecast the long term 30 year fixed rate mortgage averages 7.7% per Freddie Mac thirst, that set goes back to 1971 and rates are lower than that now, and mortgage rates have risen 1% or more seven different times since 1994 and home prices increased all Seven times right alongside those rising mortgage rates. In fact, when rates more than doubled in 2022 what happened? Home prices soared to their highest appreciation year in a long time. It reinforced this so, yes, way higher rates equaled way. Higher prices. It's not that one directly causes the other. This is correlation versus causation. It's because rate increases confirm that the economy is doing well. I have discussed that extensively in previous episodes, so mortgage rates actually don't have that much to do with home prices, and that's why it is hardly going into the forecast for next year. I'll tell you what trying to forecast mortgage rates to then use that to predict home prices, that is a fantastic way to waste your time. Now, 1x factor that could make that different for next year is that this President, he imposes his will to make rates low no matter what. So even if the economy is good, which typically leads to higher rates, wholesale push to make rates low, and that's an artificial phenomenon. Wouldn't that make home prices boom if we had a strong economy and low rates? The fact that affordability is still historically low today, though, we appear to be off the bottom. Affordability is still historically low today, that has less to do with mortgage rates than most people think, since, again, rates are low when they're in the low sixes, like they currently are. Instead, affordability is soured, because over the long term, decades, wages haven't kept up with true inflation. That's what's really going on with affordability and what everybody misses, and because affordability is still strained, home prices cannot rise a lot, say 10 or 12% next year. That can't happen on a national basis next year, now, a bill is advancing through Congress now to make housing more affordable. It's got bipartisan support relaxing zoning requirements in such a bill that could help build more homes, but if the government tries to help by making access to loans easier, that is going to lead to even higher prices and really will not help with affordability beyond the short term. In fact, just this month, the Fed has resumed QE quantitative easing. And that effectively means that it is ramping up the number of dollars being printed. And these are just more dollars in existence coming in to chase real estate and every other assets values higher we look at the employment picture. Although unemployment has been ticking up lately, it is still low at under 5% what about housing supply versus demand? And future supply versus demand? Well, this is basic econ and it will totally affect future prices. Actually visited the home of the father of economics, Adam Smith in Scotland this year, the man that nearly invented the supply demand concept starting with supply. I think anyone in real estate knows that generally, over six months of housing supply is too much. Under six months is too little. Six months is sort of that balanced point. What does that really mean? Well, months of supply is how long it would take to sell all the homes currently for sale if no new listings came on the market. All right, that's all that means. Well, currently, that level is 4.2 months that is low, and that puts some upward pressure on prices as well. Another way to think about it is with the active listing count of single family homes and condos. All this means is the number of homes currently for sale and available to buy right now. That's what active listing count means when you see that statistic out there? Well, one and a half to 2 million is the normal level of units needed to adequately house our growing population, for single family homes and condos. Well, that figure bottomed out in 2022 and it's only hovered around one or 1.1 million for a few months now, we are under supplied, and it takes a long time to build our way out of it. Now, apartment buildings are a different story. They are oversupplied, but again, today, we're here focused on the future price direction of one to four unit properties. So that's supply, not as tight as it was, but still on the tight side, and then demand. Where is demand coming from? It comes from us. There's more of us. As our population keeps growing, there is a lot of housing demand coming. Not only is there pent up demand from those trying to afford a home as soon as they can, but more broadly. Demographically, I will point back to that period where there was a surge of us births from 1990 to 2010 there were over 4 million births every single one of those years, births peaked in 2007 if you add 40 years to that, because 40 years is now the average age of the first time homebuyer. That's still a mind blowing figure to me, 40 years the average age of the first time homebuyer. You add that to 2007 that peak birth rate year, and this demand won't even peak until about 2047   Speaker 2  30:36   and this doesn't even include additions from immigration, demand, demand, demand, propping up prices for decades, but for next year, improved affordability, which is expected that boosts the demand for those that have the capacity to pay. Well, considering everything we've covered, I'm about to reveal the number for next year. But first, I mean, gosh, don't you wish everyone actually followed up on their past forecasts, like I'm about to I don't think I've ever seen a price crash predictor follow up, because they're always wrong. Well, what is the track record of get rich, education, home, price appreciation forecasts. It's the fifth straight year I'm doing this, and I always release the forecast in the final days of the year in anticipation of the coming year, just like you and I are doing together now. For 2022 I said that prices would rise nine to 10% the year ended, and they came in at 10% 2023 a lot of people said home prices would fall because they had just seen a terrific run up. I said a price fall would not happen, largely due to that jaw droppingly low supply that we had then. I said zero, there wouldn't be any change. They came in at exactly zero. There was no price change in 2023 for 2024 I forecast 4% they came in at exactly 4% this is all documented. You can go back and listen to those episodes. They're all near year end. So yes, three straight years, I nailed it to the exact percent. How about this year? Just before the year began? Do you remember what my forecast figure was from listening here about a year ago, it was 5% home price appreciation. The year is not over yet, and real estate statistics move pretty slowly. Figures lag, but we pretty much know where it's going to end up. And as we look at this same stat set that I consistently use, which is the NARS national median existing single family home price, it is 2.2% as of late in the year, and it's almost certainly going to end up at 2% appreciation. So I would call that a miss, probably not a terrible call, but far enough apart to call that a miss, 5% forecast versus 2% actual for this year. That's the track record. So before I reveal the number for next year, in the last four I've nailed three of them spot on, and why was appreciation less than I expected for this year? Well, a few reasons. One of them is that inflationary pressure from tariffs was postponed. That Tariff Schedule was changed more times than anyone could have possibly forecast, and affordability stayed stubbornly low too. And here we go for 2026 how much home price appreciation or depreciation do I expect? Well, I haven't said this in any of the previous forecasts, because it's the easiest thing to say, and I often avoid saying the easiest thing, but this is just what I see coming, and that is, I expect more of the same. It's the first time I've said more of the same, which is drumroll here, 2% home price appreciation for next year. No wild figure or hyperbolic material here, in order to attract attention that is my best target for the truth, I'm here to do my best to be accurate and help you make the most informed decision, 2% for next year. So a 500k property today should cost you about 10,000 more dollars next year, and as we know, with a figure like 2% which is less appreciation than the long run historic 5% or so, with this 2% appreciation on new purchases, you leverage that five to one with your 80% loan, and you get a 10% return on your down payment. And you add in the other four ways real estate pays to your 10% leverage appreciation and at historic norms, you can end up with a 29% total ROI. That's realistic. I outlined the math of that in an earlier episode this year when I discussed how real estate pays five ways in a slow market, there you have it, 2% forecast home price appreciation for next year. If you want the charts that support the forecast and more, there's a way for you to get a hold of that, and also the best real estate maps, stories and investment opportunities that you won't see in any headlines. They are all in my free weekly newsletter. The newsletter also gives you access to my free real estate pays five ways. Video, course, that is it. GRE letter.com Get it all at one easy place. Gre letter.com I look forward to talking to you in the new year. I'm Keith Weinhold, don't quit your daydrem   Speaker 3  36:06   nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  36:34   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, GetRichEducation.com  

In this episode, I sit down with Frank Iglesias—a real estate investor, coach, and host of the What Worked for You podcast—to unpack the journey from chaos to clarity. Frank opens up about how burnout from his IT job led him to real estate, but also how the entrepreneurial learning curve nearly burned him out all over again.We dive into the pitfalls of trying to do too many things at once, why real estate investing is only one part of the business equation, and how Profit First helped him regain control of his finances. Frank shares the hard lessons of jumping into new construction too early, the value of having a business coach, and why mastering the fundamentals is the only way to scale sustainably.Episode Highlights[0:00] – Introduction[2:32] – From IT burnout to a Rich Dad seminar and the first taste of real estate[5:10] – How trying too many strategies at once slowed his growth[6:14] – The difference between learning real estate and learning business[6:33] – The pivotal role a business coach played in aligning his operations[9:18] – Why bookkeeping is the most underrated skill in real estate investing[14:06] – Lessons learned from jumping into new construction without the right model[22:57] – The risk of cheap lots and the hidden costs of building ground-up[25:19] – The reality of delayed income and managing cash flow in big projects[27:03] – Avoiding shiny object syndrome and returning to core business principles[30:54] – How to connect with Frank and learn more about his podcast and mentorship5 Key TakeawaysFocus is your fastest path to success. Early on, avoid chasing multiple strategies—go deep, not wide.Business fundamentals matter more than tactics. Learn how to manage money, lead people, and build systems.A coach can connect the dots. Frank's biggest business breakthroughs came after investing in the right mentor.New construction is not a beginner strategy. It has different timelines, risks, and financial realities.You don't need more books—you need to implement. Information is everywhere, but application is what creates results.Links & ResourcesVisit Frank online: https://www.frankiglesias.comCall or text Frank directly: (678) 408-2228Listen to Frank's podcast: What Worked for YouLearn more about Profit First for real estate investors: https://www.simplecfo.comIf this episode helped bring clarity to your investing journey, please rate, follow, and review the show. And share it with someone else who's ready to stop guessing and start building a real business.

Keith discusses the Federal Trade Commission's (FTC) new regulations on rental pricing transparency, following a settlement with Greystar.  Legendary author, Doug Casey, joins the conversation to argue that the Federal Reserve is waging a quiet war on the middle class.  Casey explains that by creating trillions of new fiat dollars to push interest rates lower, the Fed fuels inflation, which erodes savings, distorts markets, and quietly reduces the average American's standard of living. He warns of an impending economic downturn due to inflation and government debt. Resources: Find the FTC article here. Visit internationalman.com to read Doug Casey's weekly articles and watch his "Doug Casey's Take" videos on YouTube. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/585 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the Fed keeps escalating their quiet war against the middle class. I'm talking about it with one of the most influential financial figures of the past century. Today, also what the recent FTC decision on rents means to real estate on get rich education.   Speaker 1  0:25   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold rights for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:11   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:27   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, let's get right into it, as there's a lot to cover here on our last big show before Christmas. Briefly before we get to the Fed's quiet war against the middle class the Federal Trade Commission just fired off a warning shot to landlords, and here's the translation about what this means to you, advertise your real all in rent amount with mandatory fees included in that amount or expect company and by company, the FTC means attorneys, paperwork and a long headache, and I'll tell you why I think this is a good thing. But really, first what this is all about is that it stems from the antecedent settlement with the massive global real estate company greystar, about transparent pricing. You might know that greystar is the massive global real estate company. They specialize in rental housing. In fact, greystar is the largest apartment operator in the entire US. They're in about 250 markets. The FTC cracked down on greystars add on fees, those fees added on to the rent amount that aren't clear and transparent right from the beginning. Now, in their case, it's things like Package Concierge charges, valet, trash service fees and some of these other line items that magically appear after a renter has already emotionally moved into a unit. Now for your rentals, they might be other things like Pest Control fees, gym fees, pet fees, utility add ons and notice that I use the word might, because clarification is still being sought here, but suffice to say, the least that you should know is really three things, advertise a rental price that excludes mandatory charges and that could be a violation of the law. So then state the total cost of renting the unit up front, no fine print gymnastics. Secondly, do a compliance check. You need to review your ads to confirm that they honestly convey your rental unit's price. That includes working with third party marketing vendors like Zillow or Facebook marketplace to see if they accurately state the all in price, because if they understate the price, it's still your problem. And thirdly, know that the FTC is reviewing harmful practices in the rental housing market. They'll take action against landlords that try to hide mandatory fees, so no hide and seek. And the FTC resource is in our show notes, and I sent it to you in last week's newsletter as well, if you want to read it, all my take here is that this type of transparency is a good thing. I mean, come on, we all know how annoying it is if, say, an airline states like, Hey, we've got prices to this destination. You can fly there for as low as $200 Yeah, but what if it's a 28 hour, four layover journey to fly 300 miles? Okay? What about buying an event ticket to go to a music concert and say you've already got 10 minutes wrapped up in this, but they don't show you the final price with all the fees until you've already invested that 10 minutes a. Then you learn about this in your shopping cart. So that type of thing is deceptive, all right. Well, what this FTC case does is it eliminates that effect in the rental housing market. So if you're a landlord, your competitors shouldn't be able to advertise base rents minus fees against your unit that appears higher priced than it's really not. And then for renters, I mean, the clarity helps expedite their search process. So this lets good assets compete on real value, and that is good business. Now, as far as the Fed controlling the economy, Jerome Powell announced interest rate cuts both last year and some more again this year, and though the effect isn't immediate, mortgage rates do come down with them. Mortgage rates have also fallen this year because the yield spread premium is lower. And you know what the prevailing sentiment is among a lot of armchair economists, it is squarely this, you ain't seen nothing for cuts yet. People say, Oh, watch, once Trump gets his guy in there in May, meaning that's when the newly appointed Fed chair is in power. Oh, you're really going to see some giant rate cuts then, yeah. I mean, a lot of people talk about this like it's certainly coming. They say then the Fed funds rate is going to go way down, meaning mortgage rates are then going to go way down, meaning that home prices are therefore going to soar next year. Well, all that could happen, but it is nowhere close to the certainty camp for everything to respond exactly that way. As you know, as a listener here, paradoxically, mortgage rates have little to do with home prices. Look at history over hunches. In fact, it might be more likely that those things don't happen and don't all break exactly that way, then the probability that they do, and that quickly gets into conjecture territory. As we know, lowering rates is bad too, because it signals that a weak economy needs the help. Typically. What could be different this next time. Well, whether we're in a good or a bad economy, Trump still wants lower rates, and he really imposes his will on the situation.    Keith Weinhold  7:30   We're about to bring in the author of a new book called The preparation. It's about preparing for the economic future. A lot of the book is mostly for young men and their parents, but we'll speak to both females and males. Today is the middle class both worse off and in a way, better off today than they were a generation or two ago. Talk to your grandparents. They didn't pay for a college education. They didn't get one. They rarely ate out at restaurants. They didn't have a smartphone, which is now practically mandatory to even exist. Today, people are paying for all of that, so no wonder that prospective first time homebuyers almost seem to be going extinct. Let's meet this week's guest.   Keith Weinhold  8:21   Are we going to get a painful financial reset in the form of runaway inflation, a market crash or something else? We'll answer that before we're done today, the Fed is engaged in a quiet war against the middle class. They are going to create trillions more Fiat dollars to lower interest rates further and create inflation that's according to today's guest. He is the International man himself, a legendary and generationally popular author, and he does a lot more than that. He's back with us for a sobering look at this today. Hey, welcome in. Doug Casey,   Doug Casey  8:57   Thanks, Keith. It's nice to be here with you, although care for me is in Buenos Aires, Argentina, where I spend a good part of the year.   Keith Weinhold  9:05   Such a nice place, good year round weather. There. A piece you recently wrote is titled, The Fed's quiet war against the middle class. The Fed recently announced that they're stopping Qt, which basically means they're stopping the destruction of dollars and opening the floodgates to print dollars. You've been known to say that the level of interest rates is the most important single indicator of an economy, and the Fed has made several quarter point cuts over the last year plus, although the President is supposed to stay independent of Fed influence. Oh my gosh, he has been more vocal than any other president ever over how badly he wants low rates. What are your thoughts with regard to all this Doug?   Doug Casey  9:53   Well, the Fed, which most people have been taught to believe, is part of the cosmic firmament. Right? It should be abolished. It serves no useful purpose. The Fed is an engine of inflation. It's what creates Federal Reserve notes. It's an engine of inflation and purely destructive, and it's used by the government to finance itself. So that's the first thing I've got to say. And they don't know what interest rates should be. Neither does Trump neither does anybody else. That's for the market to determine right and interest rates are set by the amount of savings that's done by the people and the amount of borrowing that's done by other people. The problem is with the Fed printing up lots and lots of money, which they are through the banking system, it makes it rather foolish to be a saver. In other words, if you produce more than you consume, which is something everybody should do, you want to save the difference. That's how you become wealthy. But if they destroy the currency with inflation, it's pointless to save, and if there's no savings, there's no capital to lend. This is why we're sliding off a slippery slope in the direction of a third world country where there's no savings, where the money's no good, it's a real problem. I think the average American, despite increases in technology that we've benefited from over many years, the average American has found his standard of living go down a lot, and it's basically because of the destruction of the currency that makes it impossible for him to save and get ahead of things, and results in wild and crazy moves in the stock markets and the real estate markets and the interest rate markets, where things become unpredictable. So everybody's being turned into a speculator, whether they like it or not, and frankly, we're headed towards a real reckoning in the US and in the world generally. So my approach at this point is to hold on to your hat, because we're in for rough running in the years   Keith Weinhold  12:14   to come. To create low rates, the Fed basically needs to create trillions of new Fiat dollars. Tell us about how that works.   Doug Casey  12:25   Well, it's a question of the supply and demand of money. You've got two things happening. Number one, when the Fed has quantitative easing, as they call it, which basically means inflating the dollar. Quantitative easing, or QE is just a nice word for inflating the dollar. They're increasing the supply of dollars out there. You increase the supply of dollars, the price of money goes down in the short run, but in the long run, the value of the dollar also goes down. And nobody's going to lend money if they can't get more in interest than it's being depreciated at. So you've got these two forces fighting against each other making for an unstable system. That's why I say that look before 1933 and when Roosevelt took gold out of the dollar, or in fact, before 1913 when the Federal Reserve was created, before that, there was no central bank. There was no Federal Reserve in the US. Money was just a medium of exchange and a store of value. It wasn't a political commodity, which it is now. Today, everybody is looking at the government to do something to make a decision to raise rates. Some people want them higher or lower them. Some people want them lower. But this is for the market to decide. It shouldn't be a political decision.   Keith Weinhold  13:53   Low rates, which most think are coming, produce an inflationary environment, which then means that longer term, there need to be new higher rates in order to combat that.   Doug Casey  14:05   Well, what we've got is a situation where conflicting advice and beliefs are causing rates, and indeed, most of the economy, to go up and down like an elevator with a lunatic at the controls. And actually, that's a very good analogy.   Keith Weinhold  14:22   And low rates to your earlier point, Doug, they don't encourage anyone to save. And you know what? Government policy doesn't encourage anyone to save either in times of crisis, like, look what happened during covid. Oh my gosh, if these people can't go to work and generate an income, they don't have any savings, obviously. So then let's go ahead and intervene even more and send them stimulus checks, basically a bailout. So low rates discourage anyone from saving, but so does our policy, because every time there's a big catastrophe, oh, they just come in with a safety net anyway. That's Part. The reason why we have such a problem with capital formation of the average American today?   Doug Casey  15:04   Well, it's actually worse than that, because over generations, a lot of debt has built up in the country. In other words, to maintain your standard of living, a lot of people have borrowed. They've done this either by taking the savings of past generations and borrowing it or mortgaging their personal futures. Either way, look, if you and I went out and borrowed a million dollars today, we could raise our standard of living artificially, sure, for the next year, but at the end of that year, we have to pay back the million dollars to lost interest, and that artificial rise in our standard of living will result in a very real decline in our standard of living. And a great deal of the borrowing that's been done to stimulate the economy through the banking system is for consumption, not for production. In other words, a lot of the borrowing is not to create new technologies and new infrastructure and new capital goods to create more wealth. A lot of it's just stuff that you wind up. People are borrowing things to fill their basements and their garages with more junk, consumer borrowing, borrowing for vacations, borrowing for to go to music, shows, all kinds of things. This has become a habit in the US, right? So let's look. It's going to end very badly. It's going to end and is ending as we speak, actually, in what I call the greater depression. It's going to be what we're looking at here, largely because of monetary manipulation, but also because taxes have gone up, up, up, up from zero level. Basically, in 1913 there were no income taxes in the US, the US government lived exclusively on minimal tariffs and excise duties. But today, there's right and they're very high, high levels of inflation, high levels of borrowing. So I think we're coming to the end of the road, as far as that's concerned. And it's bad news. Of course, most of the real wealth in the world, when you have a financial collapse, when you have a depression, most of the real wealth still exists. It just changes ownership, that's all so you want to position yourself so that you're not too adversely affected by what's coming   Keith Weinhold  17:31   this inflation and more coming inflation pumping up the asset values of the asset owners and then ruining the lifestyles of those in the lower middle class and making them trend down lower since they spend a greater proportion of their income on everyday needs like clothing and food, which is a small proportion of people that are well off and the poor don't have the assets to benefit from that inflation. And you know, Doug, it wasn't until I read your recent article that I realized something that initially the fed only had one mandate, price stability, and then later they added that maximum employment was their second mandate. I didn't realize that. So really, it's been an expansion of what they're paying attention to, and a de facto expansion of their powers and influence and control.   Doug Casey  18:23   Well, actually, they have a third mandate now, which is to control long term interest rates, to prop up the mortgage market, to prop up the real estate market. Because, as you know, the real estate market floats on a sea of debt, and if you can't get a mortgage, if you can't borrow, you can't buy real estate, or, for that matter, you can't sell it. So this makes it a very unstable situation, and most people are unaware of the fact that before the last depression, the longest mortgage you could get was five years, and that was with a 20% down payment. So things have changed a lot since then, and the more debt you use to finance anything, the more unstable things become. And the fact that things have become so unstable, and the average guy's standard of living has been sinking, and he has more credit card debt, more mortgage debt, more automobile debt. Used to be paid cash for a car, then was financed for two years and five and seven, and then it was leased where you never even owned it. I mean, this is, this is a trend that's coming to an end at this point, so it's going to be quite a comeuppance for people.   Keith Weinhold  19:42   I think long term financing and the easing of getting financing makes the cost of anything higher. There's probably no greater example than that of what has happened with college tuition over the decades. But you know Doug, when we talk about this centrally planned economy. Rather than letting free market forces take over, I love it. I just absolutely love it when the answer to a problem is actually doing less than what you're currently doing, let go of the reins, rather than the Fed controlling interest rates. If there were a free market doing it, you would have bank loan rates that couldn't become too high, or else they wouldn't attract borrowers. So rates would naturally fall, and then you also couldn't have bank loan rates that are too low, because you've got to compensate the bank for bad borrower risk. So rates would come up, and they would find some natural level, kind of to the point that you made earlier. There would be a natural set point price discovery. That's how I think of a free market working for interest rates rather than announcements by a Fed chair.   Doug Casey  20:51   Well, you're right. The problem is that the high government officials, the elite, if you would, think they know best and try to manipulate things, but they don't know best, quite frankly. And one other comment that you made, which I think is very appropriate, is college tuitions. For years, I've recommended that young people forget about college. It's a huge misallocation of your time and money, you wind up studying things well after you are through partying and drinking and chasing the opposite sex, and the things you learn about have no practical application in the world. And I'm not talking about learning history and the classics and mathematics and science, okay? Those are valuable things. Most of what people are taking in college today are hobby subjects, if you would, or things that are fun to learn in your spare time, but you shouldn't burden yourself with a lifetime of debt to do those things and get a worthless degree. Everybody has a degree and with grade inflation, they're a waste of time. That's listen. That's why I wrote this book with Matt Smith. Is my podcast. It's called the preparation. It's on Amazon, and it explains talking about your standard of living, which is what this is all about, really, why it's foolish to go to college today and exactly what especially a young man should do, instead of misallocating The four most valuable vibrant years of his life, sitting behind a desk listening to Marxist leaning professors corrupt you with all kinds of really bad ideas. So that's why we wrote the preparation. And it tells young men exactly what they should do, instead of burdening themselves under hundreds of 1000s of dollars of debt, which can't be discharged and serves no useful purpose, what they've learned in exchange for it. So, I mean, this is one of the one of the things that people should be doing, but not enough are.   Keith Weinhold  23:07   AI changes things fast. I mean, for a four year college graduate today, what you learned as a freshman three or four years ago could quickly be outdated, and that effect just wasn't nearly as great as it was a few decades ago, but if you're listening in the audio only, Doug just held his book called The preparation, which he co authored with Matthew Smith. If this way of thinking resonates with you, here's some actionable things that you can actually do. You're listening to get rich education. Our guest is international man. Doug Casey, when we come back, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold   Keith Weinhold  23:41   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's one, 937, 795, 8989. Yep, text their freedom coach directly again. 1-937-795-8989   Keith Weinhold  24:52   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 420, Five, six, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com.    Robert Helms  25:23   Hi everybody. t's Robert Allens of the real estate guys radio program. So glad you found Keith Weinhold and get rich education. Don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  25:34   Steve, welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, we're talking with Doug Casey about how the Fed is quietly intervening and hollowing out the middle class when it comes to interest rates. Since you state about them being the most important indicator for an economy, I think a lot of people don't realize Doug, and maybe you run into this too, that interest rates are not high today. I mean, on the long run, the Fed funds rate averages 4.6% and today it's in the high threes. So they're not actually high today. But with all these crises where we had all this money printing in these low rates, they feel high, but they're not.   Doug Casey  26:22   Well, you're quite correct. The question is, at what rate is the dollar losing value? The official US government figures say, Well, I don't know what they say. They vary, and the numbers are jumbled. And I think the general price level in the US, if we were realistic, is going up well over 5% probably closer to 10% you can make that case. Yeah, I think so, because I'm talking to you now from Argentina and for years, the figures were notoriously and outrageously concocted, made up to make people think things weren't as bad as they are. And here in Argentina, we've just had a revolution, actually a peaceful revolution, with replacing the Peronist government with a man named Javier Malay. It's probably the most unusual and most important election, believe it or not, in world history, because Malay was elected here in Argentina on the platform of basically getting rid of the government disbanding it. In other words, Elon Musk's Doge, but on steroids times 10, and things have gotten a lot better here because of that. And it's too bad that Doge has been eliminated in the US, because a lot of people don't understand that the government doesn't really produce anything at all. All it does is take taxes from you and pass that money around to other people with a lot skimmed off the top to do things that entrepreneurs would probably, or certainly, I'd say, do by themselves, and they make it worse by printing up money to give to people to do those things, and borrowing money, which acts as an albatross around everybody's neck. So I'd make the case that I'm not promoting either the Republicans or the Democrats, I'd kind of say a pox on both their houses. They're just two sides of the same coin. What I think we ought to have is a much smaller, much much smaller government. But are we going to get one? No, we're not getting it right now, because I think a lot of people aren't aware of the fact that the government is running 2 trillion, $3 trillion per year deficits, and those deficits are going up, not down. So where's that money coming from? Well, most of it's being created out of thin air. It's being inflated through the banking system. So the prognosis is not terribly good. Now, along the way, of course, people have hid in real estate, made a lot of money in real estate. Real estate prices have gone up faster than retail inflation has gone up. Yeah, but I'm asking myself whether it's not possible that the real estate market could come unglued at this point, because it floats on a sea of debt. What do you think, Keith, do you have any fears about that?   Keith Weinhold  29:27   Homeowners are in great shape today. They have record equity positions. They're not going to walk away. Many of them are still locked into these really low mortgage rates, so they're in really good shape. This is something very different from the 2008 global financial crisis, when you had irresponsible borrowers that had negative equity positions and an oversupply of housing so they could move out and get something cheaper. Today, if you move out in the great situation that you're in with your low mortgage rate and a high equity position, you'd lose your high equity position and. Might have to go pay rent that's higher somewhere else, so I don't see a lot of real estate appreciation coming over the next year or two, but I don't see any impending crash, largely due to that condition, there's not distress in the market.   Doug Casey  30:17   Are you worried about the fact that most local and state governments are on the ragged edge of insolvency and might be raising their real estate taxes and of course, insurance costs seem to be going up a lot faster than most other costs as well. Right now, utility costs are relatively low because oil and gas prices are low, but that could change too. I mean, is there anything that could take the real estate train off the rails?   Keith Weinhold  30:47   Not that I see. In fact, real estate values have only fallen substantially one time since World War Two, and that was during the 2008 global financial crisis, when we had conditions that are largely the opposite today. That's back when we had an oversupply and an irresponsible borrower that had negative equity so they wanted to walk away, and that created the down drain. To your point, yes, I do see property taxes continuing to increase, but because values aren't increasing as much, they would have to increase the mill rate to get further increases, and then most of the big insurance increases, many feel they are done. They had to come up. Because with inflation, the replacement cost of a property, if you would have a loss, rose and increased that way. So because we're still supply challenge in a lot of places, I see prices holding up but not appreciating like 10% anytime soon, and that's due to an affordability constraint. I don't see how they could possibly do that. And when we talk about that average person Doug, that person trying to make their mortgage payments or their rent payments, I was talking on a recent episode about the K shaped economy, I think it's something that we often visualize in our mind. You see the upper branch of the K rising, the lower branch of the k falling, which is emblematic of this hollowing out of the middle class. But I recently saw it graphically represented, where you have the capital share of income going up for people over the decades. That used to be 5050, between capital share of income and labor share of income. Back 60 years ago, it was 5050, but now, with this K shaped divergence, one's capital share of income is about 57% today, and their labor share of income is only about 43% today. And it's kind of sad. I sort of hate to say it out loud, but it's like, hard work just does not pay off, like it used to. Much of this due to inflation pumping up asset values.   Doug Casey  32:52   Well, I understand what you're saying, and I think you're correct, because there's an old saw. They say the rich get richer while the poor get poorer, and that's kind of what this K shaped economy is telling us. You've got the super rich in the top 1% or 1/10 of 1% that are becoming Ultra double wealthy, and the guy at the bottom, well, his social security taxes have risen from almost nothing to 15% of his wages, and it's a real problem. And it's said that the members of Gen Z can't afford to buy a house today as well. So what do you do about this? Well, my suggestion is, if possible, you don't want to get a job working for somebody else. If at all possible, you've got to work for yourself as an entrepreneur. That's the first thing. It's very hard to get wealthy working for somebody else. The best is to work for yourself, but in order to do that, you have to train yourself with lots of skills and lots of knowledge. And I'm not sure if people are doing that to the degree they ought to either. So I don't know how this is going to end. And of course, you mentioned earlier, artificial intelligence and robotics are tied up hand in glove with artificial intelligence. It's clear that within five years, we'll have robots that may not look entirely like people, but can do almost anything that a human being can do, and this is going to put a lot of pressure on people that don't have special skills, especially with artificial intelligence being programmed into these super competent robots. So the whole world is changing right before our very eyes. Right now,   Keith Weinhold  34:39   when we talk about the middle class struggle. I probably follow the housing market more closely than you do. The NAR recently gave us the latest statistic. Two years ago, the average age of the first time homebuyer was aged 35 last year, it rose to 38 this year, it's now 40 just the average. Age of the first time homebuyer. So in high cost areas, that could very well be 45 I mean, people are getting gray hair before they make a down payment for this middle class that's trying to get into the ownership class.   Doug Casey  35:13   And the further back you go, the younger the age right people were buying houses at So, I mean, it used to be people would try to buy a house right out of school. Frankly, that's out of the question today.   Keith Weinhold  35:27   Yeah, I sure don't remember those days myself, but Yeah, it sure was substantially younger just a couple decades ago. Well, Doug, where are we going with all this? I mean, does a reset eventually happen with either runaway inflation? Do you think that happens first, or some sort of market crash, or is it something else? I mean, what cataclysmic act is likely to happen first?   Doug Casey  35:52   Well, look, I hate to be too gloom and doomy, because everybody, first of all, generally speaking, trends in motion stay in motion, and everything has been maybe gradually descending standard of living wise, but the economy's held together, and we haven't had any catastrophic collapse. Well, almost in 2008 and a couple other times, but I think we're headed for one. So what should you do about it? I would say, consume less if you possibly can, and save what you can, if possible, take a second job while it's still possible, to go out and get a second job or found an entrepreneurial activity so that if you lose your job, you've got a backup system. But with the changes in technology and of course, what's happening in robotics and AI are just part of it. You're not going to be able to rely on what you relied on in the past, because the world is changing very, very radically as far as real estate is concerned. Look, I actually own a lot of real estate, but, you know, I've come to the conclusion that at this point I want to treat my house and other real estate, basically as a not so much as an investment to make money, but to store value. That's right, a store of value where I can put some capital aside. I don't want to keep a lot of money in dollars. That doesn't mean I want debt either. That's risky. For many, many years, I've advocated and bought gold and silver because they are money in its most basic form, and it's worked out really well. I started buying gold at about $40 it's at about 4000 today, and I've always treated it, almost always, as a savings vehicle, not as a speculative vehicle, although, if I want to speculate, I speculate in mining stocks, which are a leveraged way of playing gold and silver, the most volatile class of securities on the planet, actually, and I understand that a lot of people today have Robin Hood accounts and are speculating on the stock market, desperately trying to stay ahead of currency debasement and somehow build a nest egg for themselves by speculating in the market. Generally, that's not a good formula for success you're playing against, you know, extremely smart and well capitalized and knowledgeable big boys, and the fact that everybody's doing it is also, in itself, a tip off to the fact the stock market could be at the tippy top right now, I kind of think it is a bubble in the tech stocks. It's tough, Keith, there's not a lot of places to run and hide at this point.   Keith Weinhold  38:39   Price to earnings ratios are really bloated in the s, p5, 100. I'd love to get your thought on this. Doug, if a person can get a 30 year mortgage rate for a rental property where the rent income meets or exceeds the expenses at a mortgage rate between six and 7% should they do that?   Doug Casey  38:57   Look, if you can cover your mortgage a fixed interest rate mortgage 30 years. One thing that you can almost plan your life around is that dollar is going to lose value every year. So the actual value of your debt, your mortgage, is going to go down every year, right? And presumably the rent that you can charge on your house is going to go up every year. So yep, doing it the way I think you're doing it is an excellent plan for slow and steady long term success. Yeah, it makes sense. You're right.   Keith Weinhold  39:30   We actually have some listener questions on the thing that you brought up, which I call inflation profiting when you borrow long term fixed interest rate debt and get to pay it back with more plentiful dollars down the road. Some people don't understand what you just explained. One way I brought it up with my listeners is we'll just look back 30 years ago, in 1995 the average home cost 130k an 80% loan would be 104k so here, 30 years later, that median home costs over 400 K, and you still just owe 104k on the loan. That's the benefit of what I call inflation, profiting on long term fixed interest rate debt. And of course, your tenant would have paid that down to zero as well. But that kind of makes the benefit be more apparent when we look back into the past 30 years. Well, Doug, as we're winding down here, you have any other thoughts about, just say, the average American out there, what they should do with the Fed behaving and controlling the economy like we do. We're talking about the average American, maybe someone with a mortgage, some rental properties, some savings, maybe a 401, K. How do these potential shifts in Fed policy translate into real life consequences and actions for them. Is there anything else?   Doug Casey  40:44   Well, look, don't count on some outside force to kiss everything and make it better. You've got to look out for number one. And as I said before, the way you do that is you should cut back your expenditures every way you can at this point and when you cut back your expenditures, save that money. Now, what do you do with the money that you save? It's not as easy making that recommendation as it was a few years ago, when I was recommending gold, when it was much cheaper than it is. Now it's at $4,000 now look, save money, get an extra job, earn money, cut back your consumption, learn some new skills, because we don't know how things are going to reorient with the immense advances being made through AI and robotics. That's just generalized advice, but that's all you can do, is well and buy real assets. Nothing wrong with buying a house the way you're talking about if you can buy it and the mortgage is cracked with rent. Eventually, I think we're going to see interest rates go back up to the levels that they were in the early 1980s people don't remember this, but the US government was paying 1518, even 20% for its money, and mortgages were, well, 15, 16% it's going to happen again. So I think if you can lock in a mortgage anywhere in here, on a good piece of real estate that covers the mortgage, that's simple, it's doable. Everybody should try to do it. In addition to the other things I mentioned    Keith Weinhold  42:20   in 1981 the 30 year fixed rate mortgage peaked at over 18% to our earlier point about the fact that mortgage rates are actually historically low now so are fed funds rates. Well, Doug, tell us one last time about your new book and then any other resources. If our audience wants to engage with you   Doug Casey  42:40   I do a blog will know who he is. We've had him here on the show twice, yeah, well, he writes there for us every week, and we've got great articles. That's number one. Number two, I do a podcast with Matt Smith every week called Doug Casey's take on youtube.com third, I urge everybody to get this book, which talks about, if you have a grandchild, a son, it talks about why you should not go to college and what you should do exactly instead of going to college. So that's another thing to do. And we have a newsletter that also covers mining stocks, which is where I'm concentrated in at the moment. They're very cheap, very volatile, and one of the few places in the market, and I hate to say this, that offer the potential of 10 to one or more returns in the near future. So I guess those are the areas where you can find out more about me.   Keith Weinhold  43:49   Again, the new book from Doug is called the preparation. It shows a compass on the cover, and then internationalmen.com. Is actually where Doug wrote a piece called The Fed's quiet war against the middle class, which spawned this very conversation right here. Doug, it's been valuable as always. Thanks so much for coming back onto the show.   Doug Casey  44:08   My pleasure. Keith, thank you.   Keith Weinhold  44:16   Yeah, real estate is positioned for price stability. I was actually investing directly in real estate through the 2008 global financial crisis, and I know what happened is that people walked away from properties when the economy got rough and they couldn't make their payments. It is almost impossible for that to happen today. Homeowners can make their payments. Look through Census Bureau data in realtor.com we know a couple things here. Four in 10 homeowners have no mortgage at all. They own the property free and clear. And then among that group with mortgages, 70% of those borrowers still have a mortgage rate locked in at. Under 5% yes, still today I'll amalgamate those for you. This means that 82% of borrowers either have no mortgage or they have a rate under 5% so that is really affordable payments, along with the protective equity and inflation can't touch that principal and interest amount in addition to real estate, Doug Casey is a longtime gold and silver guy. Of course, both of those have sort to fantastic new all time highs this year.    Keith Weinhold  45:34   Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays from me and everyone here at GRE. Next week is another big one. You'll get GRE home price appreciation forecast for next year to the exact percent. I'm Keith Weinhold. Don't quit you daydream.   Speaker 3  45:53   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  46:21   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get richeducation.com  

I'm incredibly honored to sit down with Sharon Lechter — someone whose work has influenced tens of millions of entrepreneurs and investors around the world, including me personally. Sharon is an internationally recognized financial literacy expert, five-time New York Times bestselling author, successful entrepreneur, philanthropist, and former CPA with over 35 years of experience. She co-authored Rich Dad Poor Dad and more than a dozen books in the Rich Dad series, advised two U.S. Presidents on financial literacy, and helped re-energize the teachings of Napoleon Hill through books like Three Feet from Gold, Outwitting the Devil, and Think and Grow Rich for Women. //CONNECT WITH SHARON Website: https://sharonlechter.com Email: info@sharonlechter.com LinkedIn: Sharon Lechter Instagram / Facebook / X: @SharonLechter In this conversation, Sharon and I go far beyond basic money talk. We discuss: - Why real estate is one of the fastest paths to wealth — and where investors get stuck - How to think about leverage, diversification, and risk at different stages of life - The difference between being "asset rich" and actually being wealthy - What happens after a liquidity event — and why many entrepreneurs struggle with it - How to raise kids around money without creating entitlement - Why legacy isn't about net worth, but impact, stewardship, and contribution Sharon also shares her personal success equation, how faith and fear shape financial decisions, and why true wealth includes your relationships, health, and ability to give back — not just your balance sheet. If you're a real estate investor, entrepreneur, or business owner who's already doing well but wants clarity on how to build something that lasts for generations, this episode will challenge how you think about money and success.

In this episode of the School of Hard Knocks, we sit down with Robert Kiyosaki, legendary author of Rich Dad, Poor Dad and real estate investor with over 15,000 rental properties. He shares how he went from Marine helicopter pilot and failed employee to building massive tax-free cash flow and global financial influence.Robert breaks down why he rejects traditional education, why “your house is not an asset,” and how smart debt, cash flow, and the right teachers changed his life. We also explore his lowest moments: homelessness, business failures, betrayal, and the $30M lesson that reshaped his strategy and his circle.This conversation is a masterclass in money psychology, resilience, masculine responsibility, and playing the game of wealth on your own terms.Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Is your "swag" secretly hurting your brand? In this episode of Sales & Cigars, Walter sits down with Eric Turney from The Monterey Company to talk about why your promo gear should do more than just check a box—it should actually say something about your brand. Eric shares his unconventional path from construction, to almost becoming a physical therapist, to "falling backward" into sales and eventually buying the company he worked for. He and Walter dig into the real differences between being a great salesperson and being a great sales manager, handling customers who only care about price, and why saying "no" is sometimes the most professional move you can make. They also get into the nuts and bolts of branded merch: why quality matters, how to help clients think beyond cheap t-shirts, and what the pandemic and shipping chaos taught Eric's team about communication, margins, and long-term customer loyalty. If you've ever ordered promo products for an event, trade show, or team—and regretted it—this one's for you. In This Episode: College vs reality – Why what you learn in college has almost nothing to do with building wealth or becoming an entrepreneur. Rich Dad, Poor Dad mindset – The books that shifted Eric's view of money, business, and long-term wealth creation. From construction to custom merch – How a layoff, a false start in physical therapy, and a new baby on the way pushed Eric into sales at The Monterey Company. Learning sales on the fly – Word tracks, repetition, and what he learned from a top car salesman buddy. The Dutch Bros lesson – Why consistently great experience beats mediocre product—and how Eric trains his reps to "bottle" that. Salesperson vs sales manager – Why being good at selling doesn't automatically make you good at leading a sales team—and what Eric had to learn the hard way. Needing to be liked – Staying up late worrying about orders, over-promising, and the shift from "pushover" to respected advisor. When to say no – Recognizing problem customers, setting boundaries, and why "if they come for price, they'll leave for price." Niche focus – How Monterey naturally gravitated to government, military, and public service clients—and what those buyers really need. Helping the real decision-maker – Working with marketing coordinators and event planners who are tasked with buying merch but don't know where to start. The Core Four sales process – Call leads quickly, text often, quote fast, and get an art proof in front of the customer ASAP. COVID, ports, and tariffs – Container costs jumping 10x, shipping delays, switching to air freight, and choosing to eat margin to preserve long-term relationships. Quality vs cheap – Why spending 20–50% more can result in a 10x better product—and how that shows up in customer perception. Brand alignment in merch – Walmart polos vs Carhartt gear, why your team's apparel reflects your brand values, and how "one thing is how you do everything." Upselling the smart way – Medals plus shirts, plus stickers; building better event experiences instead of just pushing more product. Lifetime value thinking – Why Eric would rather lose margin on a few orders than lose a great client for good. Cigars & solitude – Eric's "special occasion" approach to cigars and why a great stick pairs well with quiet, not crowds. Connect with Eric Turney LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eric-turney/ The Monterey Company: https://montereycompany.com/    Connect with Walter Crosby and Sales & Cigars: Website: Helix Sales Development LinkedIn: Walter Crosby Instagram: @wcrosby248 Facebook: Helix Sales Development   Share Your Thoughts: We'd love to hear your feedback and experiences! Drop us a line and join the conversation on social media using #SalesAndCigars.   Never Miss an Episode! Join the Sales & Cigars community by subscribing to our podcast and YouTube channel: Subscribe to the Podcast: Apple Podcasts: Subscribe on Apple Podcasts Spotify: Follow on Spotify ...and wherever you listen to podcasts!   Subscribe to Us on YouTube: Stay updated with our latest video content by subscribing to our YouTube channel. Hit the bell icon for notifications on new uploads! YouTube: Sales & Cigars Channel   Stay in the loop: By subscribing, you'll get instant access to new episodes, insightful conversations, and bonus content designed to elevate your sales skills and more. Keep savoring those cigars and stay sharp in sales! Until next time, keep listening to Sales & Cigars—the podcast where the only smoke we blow is from cigars.

Keith discusses the K-shaped economy, where income from capital assets is rising while labor income is declining.  In 1965, 50% of income came from labor and 50% from capital; by 1990, it was 54% and 46%, respectively, and today it's 57% and 43%. Keith emphasizes the importance of how capital compounds over labor and advises on building ownership in real estate and businesses.  Finally, he answers your listener's questions about: agricultural real estate inflation, profiting on mortgage loans, transitioning from accumulation to preservation and a fast-growing state that no one talks about. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/584 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:00   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, capital compounds, labor doesn't realizing this can change allocation decisions for the rest of your life. Then I discuss giving. Finally, I answer your listener questions about agricultural real estate inflation, profiting on mortgage loans when it's time for you to stop accumulating properties and a fast growing state that no one talks about today on get rich education   Speaker 1  0:33   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:18   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:34   Welcome to GRE from Williamsburg, Virginia to Williamsport, Pennsylvania and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education, and I'm somewhat near Williamsport, Pennsylvania today. For years, I've told you about the widening canyon between the haves and the have nots, and that's something that you might have only visualized in your head or merely considered a theory, but now you can see it. There's a chart that I recently shared with our newsletter subscribers that might just make your spine tingle and look, I don't like saying this, but hard work just does not pay off like it used to. This is emblematic of the K shaped economy. Just visualize the upper branch of the K, a line rising over time, and the lower branch of a letter k, that line falling over time, both plotted on the same chart. So what steadily happened over the last 60 years really is quite astonishing. And look, I don't want the world to be the way that I'm about to tell you it is, but that's just what's occurring. The share of one's income from capital assets is rising, while the share from labor keeps decreasing simultaneously. Now just think about your own personal economy. What share of your income is from your invested capital versus how much of your income is derived from your labor. When you're the youngest, it's all labor. When I got out of college and had my first job, all of my income was from labor. I certainly didn't have any rental property cash flow or stock dividends. But for Americans, here is how it's changed over time, and this K shaped divergence is alarming people in 1965 it was 5050 by 1990 54% of income was from capital and 46% labor. Today it's 57% capital and only 43 labor. Gosh, the divergence is real, and it's only getting wider, and I really had to dig for the sources on this K shaped economy chart. They are the BLS, the Tax Foundation and the International Labor Organization. Increasingly, asset owners are the haves. The upper part of this K shaped economy, that line is drifting up like a helium balloon that you forgot to tie to the chair. It just keeps going up and then the labor share of income, which is shrinking, that is also known as how much of the economic pie goes to people who actually work for a living. That is another way to think of it. So frankly, that's why I say hard work just does not pay off like it used to, because with each wave of inflation, assets, pump, leveraged assets, mega pump and wages lag behind, and we can't allocate our resources in the way that we want the. World to be, but how the world really is. In fact, the disparity is even greater than the chart that I just described to you, because it doesn't even include value accumulation, also known as appreciation. I was only talking about income there, and the reality is that working for a paycheck just pays off less and less and less. No amount of working overtime on a Saturday can make you wealthy, but it might make you miserable. Owning assets pays off more and more. In fact, the effect is even more exaggerated than what I even described, because, as we know, the tax treatment is lighter on your capital gains than it is your income derived through labor. As the economy keeps evolving, those who benefit the most, they do not sell their time for money. They're not trading their time for dollars. In fact, let me distill it down here are, yeah, it's just four words that could change the way you allocate your time and your effort for the rest of your life. Capital compounds, labor doesn't. yeah, there's a lot right there. If you want to keep up or get ahead, you need to be on the capital part of the K, the upper part. And what would that really look like for you in real life? What does that practically mean? It means building ownership into your financial life, owning real estate, owning businesses using prudent leverage, owning things that produce income, and even merely owning more things that appreciate. And here's the great news, though, real estate is still the most accessible, leverageable, tax favored capital friendly asset class ever created. That's whether you're just patching together like 43k for a down payment on your first turnkey single family rental, or making a tax deferred exchange into a 212 door apartment complex. Okay, this is how that can look in real life. The bottom line here is that as the economy gets more and more K shaped, with this divergence between Americans capital share of income increasing and labor share decreasing, that you want to stack real income generating assets. That is the big takeaway.    Keith Weinhold  7:44   Well, this is the time of year where a lot of people feel compelled to give donations. And as a GRE listener that's paid five ways, you've got more ability than others to give, I need to caution you about some things. I'm sorry that it is this way, because I do want to promote giving. It's kind, it's virtuous, and it's not a completely selfless act either, because when I give, it makes me feel good too. You're making a difference, and that feels great. Let's talk about the downsides of giving, though, because few people discuss that. We already know about the upsides when I give to an organization, say, 1500 bucks here, $1,000 over there, well, inevitably, you do get on that organization's contact list. And yeah, I suppose that it is easier to retain a customer or donor than it is to find a new one. Sometimes I just make what I expected to be a one time donation, but they will keep contacting you. Now, I was once on the other side of this. I served on a volunteer committee that organizes athletic events, and a friend of mine, John made a $1,000 donation to our organization one year, which was really kind, and he's just a day job working kind of guy when he didn't make the donation. The following year, someone made it a line item in our meeting minutes to say that John's donation was not renewed. Like that's the only thing they brought up. Oh gosh, that really struck me the wrong way, because here's a guy that traded his time for dollars at a job that I happen to know he doesn't like very much, and the committee statement was that the guy didn't renew his donation. Sheesh, now, when it comes to the tax treatment of, say, $1,000 that you make in a donation, there's a lot of misunderstanding about how that works, and this is the type of subject that you're thinking about now, because sometimes people want to get a tax break tallied up before year end, because some people think that after the year ends, well, the IRS pays you back the $1,000 you donated because it's tax deductible. No, that's how a tax credit. Works. But a tax deduction, which is all that you might be eligible for, means that if your annual income is 100k well then a 1k donation lowers your taxable income to 99k so if you're in the 24% tax bracket, then you'd get 240 bucks back. But you know, in many or even most cases, you're not going to get any tax break at all for making a donation, and this is because you did not exceed the standard deduction threshold, which is now almost 16k if you're single and almost 32k married, you get to deduct those amounts from your taxable income no matter what. So the standard deduction, in a way, it's nice, because you don't have to keep receipts and do all that tracking for everything. So I've had that experience myself where, huh, feeling a little generous throughout the year, giving $1,500 here, $1,000 there. Oh, and then realizing that it does nothing for me on taxes, you have to give more to exceed the standard deduction amount and start itemizing them. And mortgage interest does go into that amount. Okay, it does go into the amount to try to get your total above the standard deduction threshold. So go ahead and give freely, but in a lot of cases, keep in mind that it often does nothing for your taxes, because you're taking that standard deduction if you indeed are. There's been another tip flation trend that's annoying, and that is increasingly when I give a donation online, I'm asked to if I want to leave a tip on top of the donation. That is so weird, a tip is for good service. I'm serving you by being generous enough to give a donation. Sheesh, a tip request on top of a donation. But please do give when you do, one thing that you might want to specify is that it is a one time donation, if that is your intent, or they will constantly follow up with you.    Keith Weinhold  12:06   Coming up next, I'm going to answer your listener questions. A member of Team GRE, who you haven't heard before, is going to come in to ask me your listener questions, and one of them is going to be among the most important topics that our show has never addressed, and it's about time. I'm Keith Weinhold. You're listening to get rich education.    Keith Weinhold  12:28   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth every single year I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and healthcare. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly again, 1-937-795-8989   Keith Weinhold  13:40   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Kristen Tate  14:14   this is author Kristin Tate. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  14:32   Welcome back to get rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, they say that it takes a village to get some things done and well, it takes a team to prop up this slack jawed operation one GRE team member, capably behind the scenes for more than a year and a half now, is Brenda Almendariz, welcome in. Brenda, Hi, Keith, thanks. Rather than me asking the listener questions this time you. You get to do it, but before we do that, just tell us a bit about your real estate investing.    Brenda  15:07   Sure. So I started maybe learning a little bit about investing and kind of looking into other options to grow my wealth. And I came across the GRE podcast and a few others. So I think about 2018 I did a little bit of just learning and kind of educating myself. And then 2019 I bought my first turnkey property. Turned out well. And then 2020 I bought my second one. And then in 2021 I decided, okay, this is working really well. Maybe I'll do a house hack. I'll do something a little different, and in a year, then maybe I'll do something else. But I've been in my 2021 home now for about almost five years. I'm looking for the next one, hopefully within the next year. But yeah, it's been great. Turnkey. Just met real estate investment company here at my local REIA, and then I learned that I could actually connect with other companies across other places through GRE but yeah, it's been great.   Keith Weinhold  16:02   Brenda lives in Phoenix, just about as close to the center of Phoenix as you can possibly be. I sat down with Brenda for lunch the last time that I was in Phoenix, and like a lot of people, almost everybody that works here at GRE they started out as a listener before they ever worked here. And really, it's that same story with Brenda as well. So yeah, Brenda will want to ask us the first of what we have about four listener questions today   Brenda  16:31   we do, so I'll go over the first one here. Question is, I would love for you to revisit some of the non traditional example, coffee plantation, CBD manufacturing, teak plantation, Belize resort properties and syndication projects you've discussed on the GRE podcast just to see how they turned out. I'm sure some of them failed to deliver the expected returns, and it's the failures that many of us learn the most from   Keith Weinhold  17:02   Yeah, totally. Okay, so not so much a listener question here, but a comment to discuss more of these agricultural real estate investments or ones that are in syndications off of the investment type that you can't do yourself, is what we're talking about here, rather than direct ownership of residential rental property and an appeal to follow up down the road to see how they really turned out. And you know, Brenda, I'll address you because we don't have the listener name with this question. Most people in my position, if an investment has been discussed on the show, and then that investment didn't go as well as was hoped for, you know what? They never tell the audience about it. However, there's the Panama coffee farm investment. We first discussed that here way back in 2015 and we had a GRE field trip where I met a lot of you in person there in Panama. And as I often do when we discuss a particular investment here, I bought and still own Panama coffee farm parcels myself. That investment, it paid cash flow from the crop yields for a few years, and then it stopped. The good yields stopped due to covid disruption, and since then, there have also been erratic weather patterns like drought and precipitation of the wrong levels and at the wrong time of year, and there's been more of a prevalence of pests in disease like coffee leaf, rust and the operator. They have been communicative and forthcoming all the while they're still issuing the annual report that I read, and sometime after that, I think that a lot of investors were assured, because it sort of made national news, international news, that markets for both coffee and cacao have been suppressed, at least from the standpoint of there's not enough crop yield. I mean, that is a problem in a lot of places worldwide. Now I hope that turns around, and it very well may. In fact, we did something here that very few shows do. Back on episode 431, we had the Panama coffee farm CEO come back on the show to describe exactly what I just told you about there. And few shows are willing to do that. Some people just want you to think that every single investment that's discussed goes as well it was hoped for, or even better than expected. But that is not real world. You got to be authentic in real So, okay. Listener, comment, well, taken there. They appreciate that sort of follow up, and they would like more of that. All right, that's great. What's the next question? Brenda.   Brenda  19:40   Sure. So the next one comes to us from our audience over on YouTube. So in response to our real estate pays five ways in a slow market, YouTube video matrices wrote, There is no inflation profiting. You would have to be paying off the loan with an income that goes up with housing inflation. That's plausible if you are a wage earner, but if your source of income is rental properties, then there isn't a wage increase that reduces the effective loan amount. You are double dipping in the inflation profiting column by counting appreciation which you earn as a real estate investor and inflation profiting, which you earn only if your wages go up at the rate of housing inflation, and you use those wages to pay off the loan, which you don't   Keith Weinhold  20:33   Okay, again, somewhat of a statement here. I suppose there's a question implicit within that for matrices. I'm not sure how you say that name exactly. Wondering about inflation profiting. Are you counting it? Right? I don't know about that. The part about paying off the loan faster if you're a wage earner, I mean, that's plausible, but not if your income is from rental properties. I mean, see that's actually backwards, because your cash flow goes up faster than the rate of inflation due to your biggest payment, your principal and interest staying fixed, so your net rent income goes up even faster than the rate of inflation. So inflation profiting, therefore it's even better than how I've been presenting it and calculating it. Now with that understood matrices, here's one way for real estate investors to understand inflation profiting on your loan if you still have trouble getting with that. 30 years ago, in 1995 the US median home price was 130k with an 80% loan, your mortgage balance at origination would have been 104k and the monthly mortgage payment is 763 with the 8% market mortgage rate level that you would have gotten at that time. Now, even if we don't apply any principal pay down at all, your mortgage balance today is still just 104k and your payment is still just 736 bucks, and it is substantially easier to make that payment today, because your wages and salaries and rent incomes are multiples higher. When you originate a loan, the bank doesn't ask to be repaid in dollars or their equivalent. The loan documents only say dollars and dollars are worth less and less and less. So today, your median priced property is worth over 400k despite still having that tiny 104k loan balance. And of course, your tenant would have paid that down to zero, and we aren't even counting that part, I think, to really exaggerate the effect and help make the inflation profiting concept crystallize for you, matrices. If you go back 100 years, the median home cost was 11,600 bucks. An 80% loan would be just over 9k that you borrowed. Okay, so at a 7% interest rate, 30 year loan, the monthly payment would be 94 bucks, laughably small. That's less than the cost of a nice dinner out today. That's all you owe on a median priced property, which is over 400k today. So because it doesn't feel like you're tangibly walking away with anything when you sell a property, hopefully that helps make it real mitricas. And one last way to think about it is, let's just forget real estate for a moment. Would you loan your best friend 100k for 30 years interest free, even if we're somehow absolutely guaranteed that he would pay you back? Well, of course, he wouldn't do that, because inflation destroys the lender and benefits the borrower. So you would want to be the borrower in that case, because the borrower profits from inflation, profiting just like you're the borrower with income property. That's the position that you want to be in. But I'm glad we brought this up, because a lot of people have that question. That was a good one. Matrices, even though you seem to sort of be doubting if inflation profiting is a real thing with the way you approach the question, hey, I really appreciate it. Anyway, what's the next one? Brenda   Brenda  24:10   yep. So the next one we have is Mark. He wrote into our general inbox, and he says, I have been listening to your podcasts from the beginning, and I believe I have not missed a single show. Wow. Yeah, it would be hard to argue with your strategy of using debt to rapidly increase your returns and expand your rental real estate portfolio. This method is great for the accumulation phase of one's life. However, I believe that you have never addressed the next chapter of everyone's life, phase two. I am, of course, talking about preserving your wealth, which is phase two. Yeah, I only ask this because that is what stage of life I am in. For background, he has 15 rentals, seven mortgages. Age 62. Currently all managed by a property manager, and he is married and an empty nester. Please note, no matter how much money is made from rentals, he said, his wife's view is that it is work, and so she does not want any more homes or work. This would be a great idea for an upcoming show. Please consider thanks, Mark.   Keith Weinhold  25:20   Yeah. Great stuff, Mark. And before Brenda came on, we discussed which questions that she's going to choose. And I definitely wanted to have this one in there, because, I mean, this is one of the most important topics that's never been answered on the show, and it really needs to be answered today. The accumulation phase of Mark's life is done. He wants to know about how to approach the preservation stage. First of all, Mark, congratulations. You've listened to every GRE episode, 584, of them now, and you've clearly benefited from acting so good for you to be in this position. In fact, this show had its inception in 2014 and it doesn't even take these 1011, years to reach financial freedom, if you follow my plan. So you are there. All right, so, Mark, you've got 15 rentals, seven mortgages. You're age 62 they're currently managed by a property manager. You're married in an empty nester. I mean, you've made it, and you know that you've made it when you have enough income to support your desired lifestyle. That's what we're talking about here. Financially Free, beat step free and all of that, I'm going to speculate mark that if you had tried paying all cash for every property, you wouldn't have gotten very far. You wouldn't have made it to this point. You know why this question resonates so well with me, Mark, despite being quite a bit younger than you, I am at that stage as well. I definitely don't need to add more properties for the rest of my life. Now. I don't have kids yet either, so there's no clear air there. In fact, one reason that I hold on to my properties is to help educate our audience to be a real investor in the game and to be able to keep up with trends. You can just kind of tell when someone's not investing in real estate themselves. So if I talk it, I want to keep doing it now for you, Mark, it's not about rushing to pay off your seven mortgages, as you know from listening, that's usually not your best return on capital. If you've already made it, there is absolutely zero reason to add more properties, I would agree, especially if you know, in your wife's eyes, that creates a headache, and maybe yours as well, once you get to a certain point. So as far as this preservation stage, since you've moved away from the accumulation phase, the LLC is the favorite protection structure, not a C or an S Corp. And I have done shows on that with attorneys before. Since I'm not one of your 15 properties, if one or two are less profitable or for whatever reason, you just have difficulty getting those rented during vacancies, okay, you can sell those off if you don't want to do the 1031, exchange into more property, you can pay the tax. That's an option, but you will also have to pay depreciation recapture on those properties and mark. If there's one thing I wish I knew, it's that if you do have children or clear heirs, but the gold standard for passing along properties to heirs is a revocable living trust, and if you only remember one thing about that, a properly drafted living trust is the number one way to pass along rental properties smoothly. And why it's great is that it avoids probate. Probate is a court supervised process. It takes months or years of delay. So instead, with a revocable living trust, heirs get access to your properties almost immediately. Now you are age 62 hopefully this isn't happening anytime soon, but you do keep full control while you're alive, it's easy to update a revocable living trust, but the big one probably is that it prevents family disputes and it keeps everything private. That way there's no public probate record. And the bonus is, if you own properties in multiple states, a trust avoids multiple probates, that's huge. So those are some considerations. Mark as you've Congratulations again. Move from the accumulation phase to the preservation stage. It's a completely normal, natural process. You sure don't have to keep adding properties for ever and ever. Congrats. You made it. You did it.    Brenda  29:37   Great. We've got another one, Keith. This one is from Tim in Philomath, Oregon, and he says, I would be interested in the days ahead, if you would be able to help us understand why North Dakota is projected to grow so much.   Keith Weinhold  29:54   Okay, thanks, Tim in follow math, Oregon, another word I'm not sure how to pronounce. Now, yeah, you might think it's unusual that I would want to answer this question. For a low population state of under 1 million people, like North Dakota, from today to 2050 there's forecast to be 9% population growth nationally, but in North Dakota, it is 34% that is quite a surge, and that is per visual capitalist via the University of Virginia, but North Dakota's projected growth, it looks surprisingly strong on paper, especially for a cold, rural, low population state. But really, there are at least four major forces behind the fast 2025 to 2050, Outlook, and when you break them down, the growth actually makes sense. So I want to talk about this, because it's really a template for what makes for a growing place and a good future real estate market, no matter where it is. But in North Dakota, you've got this continued energy sector, strength, oil, gas and next generation energy. Part of what's driving the growth is something that's definitely not a new story. It is still the Bach and shale. It's still one of the top US oil fields. You got advances in drilling. That means more production with fewer rigs. That makes a sector more resilient. You've got global demand for liquid fuels projected to remain high through 2050 I know people like to talk about renewables, and there probably is a future there. But it's not like we're going to go all renewable right away. North Dakota is aggressively expanding carbon capture. So energy equals jobs. Jobs equals population retention and in migration, there's a national labor shortage in North Dakota. It's got this skilled worker hole. The US is going to face a major labor shortage through 2050 that's because of trends that you really can't change, like an aging population and low birth rates. That makes these high wage, high demand energy and engineering jobs stickier. North Dakota consistently leads in labor force participation, job availability, good starting wages for skilled trades, and they always seem to have a low unemployment rate, lower than the national average. So in other words, people move where the jobs are, even if it's cold. They really have one of the best economic outlooks in the country. There's a report called Rich states, poor states. In their latest one, they ranked North Dakota fifth nationwide in economic outlook, and that's above Texas and Florida and Tennessee, and that's because North Dakota has low taxes. They're business friendly, they're light on regulation. Businesses like that, their budgets are stable, and they've got strong public finances. So states with those fundamentals, they tend to grow pretty well over long horizons, and North Dakota has this demographic momentum. It's a younger state than all the surrounding states. They have a younger median age, high birth rates, so they've got this faster natural replacement rates, and they have really strong university systems, both und and North Dakota State, and what that does is that retains those graduates for jobs like energy and engineering and agriculture. So North Dakota benefits from this high stay rate, like a lot of people move for jobs, and they end up staying there, and their population growth seems fast, but the overall population small, so a net gain of 150,000 people, that really seems huge in percentage terms. It's steady rather than explosive growth. We're talking about annual gain. So really, a takeaway for investors is that North Dakota's growth is not a fluke. It's from strong economic policy, a big, durable energy engine, high earning jobs. You got this favorable business climate, and really unexpectedly young demographics. I read that the counties that will grow fastest are Cass Williams and stark and, you know, Brenda. If we learn about a reputable North Dakota property provider, maybe we'll talk about them here on the show. So if you the listener or anyone else know about one, write into us at get rich education, comm slash contact, and we'll check them out. And also, more broadly, if you want your listener question answered in the future, that's where to write to us as well, again, at get rich education.com/contact, thank thanks for the North Dakota question, Tim and Brenda, it's nice to have you here to ask the questions in a different voice.   Brenda  34:29   Thanks, Keith. Yeah, it's good to be on this side of the show instead of   Keith Weinhold  34:34   a listener. After all these years, there's one episode I'm sure you'll be listening to, and it's this one that you're on today.   Keith Weinhold  34:48   Yeah, much of our team here were GRE listeners before they ever worked here. We just made another hire two months ago. That woman worked for a payment processor. I said at the time, that sounds really boring. It definitely sounds more interesting to work at the GRE podcast. To review what you learned today, capital compounds labor doesn't though I promote being a giver, there are downsides to giving, but they're manageable. Inflation, profiting is the most often misunderstood of the five ways, and you will reach a tipping point where you've won in which you no longer have to add properties. That is transitioning from the accumulation phase to the preservation phase. That is one of the more important unaddressed things on the show until today, and finally, North Dakota's booming growth projections coming up soon on the show, I'll reveal GRE national home price appreciation forecast for next year, where you will learn the exact percent appreciation or decline expected in the future. Until then, check us out at get richeducation.com I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 3  36:00   You nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of Get Rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  36:32   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, GetRichEducation.com  

What if prosperity has nothing to do with how much money you have—and everything to do with how you think? Join Nicole and guest Kim Butler as they dismantle scarcity thinking and teach you how to build a life—and culture—of abundance.In this powerful conversation, Nicole interviews financial strategist and 11-time author Kim Butler, whose newest book Busting the Scarcity Mindset reframes how we think about money, value creation, and prosperity. Kim shares seven core prosperity principles—including proactive gratitude, intentional income design, and matching your money to your values—and offers practical, mindset-shifting strategies that any leader can use.Whether you're a CEO, HR professional, or leader working to elevate your personal and professional prosperity, this episode equips you with tangible mindset tools to shift out of scarcity and into abundance—starting today.Vibrant Highlights:• 00:02:52 — What Prosperity Really Means: Kim shares why prosperity is a mindset, not a dollar amount, and how anyone can shift into prosperity thinking regardless of their financial situation.• 00:07:42 — The Surprising Habit That Stops Unconscious Spending: Kim explains why you should never put your paycheck directly into your checking account—and how this one shift can transform your financial awareness.• 00:26:09 — Match Your Money to Your Values: A powerful discussion on aligning spending and saving with what truly matters, and how misalignment reinforces a scarcity mindset.• 00:49:19 — Opting Out of Recessions: Kim introduces the concept of the “metaphysical economy” and explains how mindset allows individuals to create prosperity even during economic downturns.Connect with Kim:Books: www.amazon.com/stores/author/B00523N6HEWebsite: https://prosperitythinkers.com/LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kimdhbutler/IG: https://www.instagram.com/kimdhbutlerFB: https://www.facebook.com/kimdhbutlerX: https://x.com/kimdhbutlerAlso mentioned in this podcast:Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki: https://a.co/d/cpTEU8MPeter Diamandis: https://metatrends.substack.com/?hsCtaAttrib=197025689908Dan Sullivan: https://www.strategiccoach.com/coach/dan-sullivanKiva (nonprofit): www.kiva.orgListen at vibrantculture.com/podcast or wherever you get your podcasts!Book Nicole to help your organization ignite clarity, accountability, and energy through her SHINE™ Coaching Methodology.Visit vibrantculture.comEmail: nicole@vibrantculture.comWatch Nicole's TEDx Talk: https://youtu.be/SMbxA90bfXE

Keith reviews the state of the real estate market, noting that existing home sales are down about 33% from their 2021 peak, while prices remain firm due to low supply and high demand.  Affordability challenges are driven by stagnant wages, inflation, and higher mortgage rates, with 70% of mortgage holders still locked in at rates below 5%.  He observes that in certain markets, new construction may now offer better investor terms than comparable existing properties, especially where builders buy down rates.  The episode highlights a comparison of nearly a century of asset class returns, reporting real estate's long-term annual appreciation at approximately 4.7%. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/583 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation   Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:01   welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, how do other audiences feel about the GRE mantras that we've come to love here, like financially free beats debt free and don't get your money to work for you? Then sometimes it's not what you're attracted to in life, but what you're running away from finally comparing the returns from six major asset classes over the past century all today on get rich education    Keith Weinhold  0:29   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki, get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:18   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:34   Welcome to GRE from Kennebunkport, Maine to Bridgeport, Connecticut and across 188 nations worldwide. It is the voice of real estate investing since 2014 I'm Keith Weinhold, and I'm grateful to have you here with me, and we're doing something a little different today, as you'll soon listen in to me as I was on the hot seat being interviewed on another prominent real estate show. But first, when you pull back and ask yourself, why you're really an investor in the first place? There are so many reasons. Maybe you just want a few properties in order to supplement your day job income. Maybe you want to have more than a few so that you can completely replace that active income, or perhaps rather than going the route of building up your cash flow, which is valid, but some think that it's the only way to real estate financial freedom. Instead, you could own, say, nine doors or 22 doors, and even if they all had zero cash flow, you can just keep borrowing against that leverage and equity tax free and live off of that whatever you do when it comes to your day job, income, your degree of disdain for your nine to five job that is going to be greater or less than it is for some others. So your motivation for self improvement, it isn't always about what you're running to in life, which could be real estate investing, but it's also what you're running away from, especially if you don't get a deeply rooted sense of meaning from your job. So you could have both a push factor and a pull factor in what motivates you. There's a scene from the 1999 movie Office Space that just does this incredibly unvarnished job of saying out loud how so many of us feel today. What I'm going to share with you, I mean, you know that you have felt this at least once in your life. Office space wasn't supposed to be a mega hit movie, but it kind of was, because it's so relatable. Let's listen in to part of this clip. This is Ron Livingston playing a disgruntled male employee talking to Jennifer Aniston at a restaurant about his job in the movie Office Space.   Speaker 1  4:09   I don't like my job, and I don't think I'm gonna go anymore. You're just not gonna go. Yeah, won't you get fired? I don't know, but I really don't like it, and I'm not gonna go.   Keith Weinhold  4:24   Then it continues when she asks. So you're just gonna quit? No, not really. I'm just gonna stop going. When did you decide all of that? About an hour ago? Really? Yeah, aren't you going to get another job? I don't think I'd like another job. What are you going to do about money in bills and all that? I've never really liked paying bills. I don't think I'm going to do that either.   Keith Weinhold  4:53   That's it. That is the end of that classic dialog from office space that we can. All relate to you did not wake up to be mediocre, but a lot of people's jobs pummel them into a rather prosaic state. You were born rich because you were born with this abundance of choices, this huge palette in menu, but society often stifles that and makes you forget it, and it gets really easy to just fall into your groove and stay there. The main reason we aren't living our dreams is really because we're living our fears. Failure doesn't actually destroy as many dreams as people think fear and doubt. Does fear and doubt destroy more dreams than failure ever does financial runway? That is a phrase for the amount of time that you can maintain your lifestyle without the need for a paycheck. And it's critical for you to lengthen this runway if you hope to retire early, and it will dramatically reduce your stress level. An example is say that you currently earn 150k per year after taxes, and you spend 126k of that, all right. Well, that means you've got a surplus of 24k a year. Well, it's going to take you a little over five years to accumulate that 126k that you need to annually support your lifestyle. That's what happens if you don't invest. And see investing helps you lengthen your financial runway, that amount of time you can maintain your lifestyle without the need for a paycheck. That's what we're talking about here. Last week I brought you the show from Caesar's Palace in the center of the Las Vegas Strip. So therefore, what I've done is I have gone from the ostentatious and flamboyant over here to the familial and simple as this week I'm in Buffalo New York, broadcasting from a somewhat makeshift GRE studio here, the Buffalo Bills had a home game yesterday, so the city and hotels are busier than usual. Next week, I will bring you the show from upstate Pennsylvania, as I'm traveling to see my family. Let's listen in to me on the hot seat. I was recently a guest on Kevin bups long running real estate investing show. You're going to get to see how I present information and GRE principles for the first time to a different audience. And as I do, you're going to hear me provide new material, but you'll also hear me say quite a few things that I have told you before, even then, the concepts might land differently when I'm explaining them to a new audience. The show is based in Florida, so We'll also touch on the real estate pain and opportunity there. After I'm interviewed, I'm going to come back and tell you about something fascinating. I'm going to compare the returns from six major asset classes over the past century, since 1930 anyway, and that's going to include the first time on the show where I'll tell you real estate's annual appreciation rate over the last entire century. Just about what do you think it is? 8% 5% 3% you're gonna have, perhaps the best answer you've ever had. Here we go.   Kevin Bupp  8:31   Now, guys, I want to welcome back a guest that we've had on. It's been a number of years now. Keith Weinhold, I went back to look at the last episode we had him on. I think it's been about four years. So, you know, four years ago, the world was in the very different state. It was a very different time. And so, you know, thankfully, we're out of the covid era and on to newer and greater things. So for those that don't know Keith, he's the founder of get rich education. He's the host of the popular get rich education podcast. He's a longtime thought leader in the real estate investing space, and like myself. Keith was also born and raised in Pennsylvania. For those that know don't know, I was born and raised in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, Keith, I believe, a couple hours away from where I was. But Keith has very much a unique perspective on wealth, building debt, and really the housing market as a whole. And today, you know, we'll be diving into everything you know, from why the property itself? This is something that Keith kind of coins, why the property itself is less important than you think, to how the housing crash has already happened in a way that most people don't even realize, to the role inflation and debt play in building long term wealth. And so again, it's been a number of years here, so I'm excited to welcome Keith back here. So my friend, Keith, welcome to the show. It's it's a pleasure to have you back here again, my friend.   Keith Weinhold  9:43   Oh, Kevin, it's good to be here and be in the auspices of another fellow native Pennsylvanian as well.   Kevin Bupp  9:49   That's right, that's right, yeah, no, Pa is rocking and rolling as I think I told you this little, this little tidbit last time everyone, every time I speak with someone from Pennsylvania, they never know this. But I'm going to share this fun fact. Are you already know, Keith. I'm gonna share it with the rest of the listeners here today, Pennsylvania, those that are born and raised there. It's the only state where, if you're from Pennsylvania, you refer to it by its initials, and you assume that everyone else, everywhere else across the country, they know what you're talking about when you say I'm from PA and that's the only state that does that. So I think it's pretty neat.   Keith Weinhold  10:19   That's right. No one else does that. No one else says, I'm from TN, if they're from Memphis, right?   Kevin Bupp  10:24   They don't, they don't. So with that, my friend. So, you know, it's, again, it's been a number of years since we, since we had you last on here, you know, let's start with just, let's back up a little bit. You know, what have you been up to? I mean, what, what have the last few years look like for you? Where have you been spending your time, energy and efforts? Obviously, it's, you know, we've gone through some quite a bit of turmoil over the last five years, and would love to just get an update as to what's going on your life.    Speaker 2  10:48   Well, one of the big words in real estate investing, we all know it, even the person that cuts your hair and cleans your teeth knows it, and that's affordability. You know, really, affordability has been under fire, under pressure. By a lot of measures, we have the worst affordability for home buying since the early 80s, when the Jeffersons was on television. So it's been helping a lot of people deal with that. It's really the effect of three things, general inflation, higher home prices and higher mortgage rates. Really, those three things the crux of the problem. It's not exactly inflation, really. It's the fact that over the long term, wages don't keep up with inflation. And really that's the crux of the affordability problem. So I've been helping people deal with that and put that in perspective, really, Kevin,   Kevin Bupp  11:42   what does that mean for, you know, investment, real estate? I mean, are you still still doing deals? Are you seeing deals still get done by your students? I mean, what? What's your world look like?   Keith Weinhold  11:52    Yeah. I mean, I think you're asking, you know, how many deals are taking place? One way to measure that on a national basis is existing home sales. You know, existing home sales have been down substantially. And when a lot of people hear that, they think, prices, oh no, we're not talking about prices. We're talking about existing home sales. That means sales volume. That means the amount of overall transactions. So to give an idea of a real estate market, a residential one that's become pretty lethargic and not very vibrant, is that sales volume. It had its recent peak of about 6 million home sales back in 2021 I mean, 2021 was crazy, kind of the crux of the pandemic, you know, Kevin, that's when for an open house. You saw cars wrapped around the block for just one open house. Okay, well, that year 2021 there were 6 million existing home sales. Today, we're on pace to do about 4 million, and we also did only about 4 million last year. So if you put that in perspective and think about what that means, prices have stayed stable, but that's a 33% reduction in transactions. So investors, you know, people like you and I, Kevin, we're not as affected by this as some other industries. But think about the mortgage loan industry. If you're doing 33% fewer transactions, think about the hard decisions companies have to make and lay people off. 33% fewer transactions for title companies. It's probably close to 33% fewer transactions for furniture companies as well. So really it's both affordability that's been a problem, and that's led to this relative lethargy, kind of a slow, not very interesting residential real estate market, at least from the transaction perspective, really, really slow.   Kevin Bupp  13:58   But Could, could one not argue, I don't know the data points. Keith, I guess, what did it look like? 2021? Was kind of the peak. I think you'd reference 6 million units a year. Transactionally, what did it look like prior? What, what was, what was a more normal year like? And maybe 2020, wasn't a normal year either, right? Because a lot of folks thought the role was ending for a period of time. You know, 2019 maybe just again, trying to, trying to find maybe a better baseline to use. And then, you know, does, I guess, in my mind, and I don't follow these data points as much as you do, is that maybe 2021, was, you know, somewhat artificial inflation, right? Lots of lots of money pumping into the marketplace. And ultimately, we had to get back to a sense of normalcy at some point in time. And so are we at a at a place of normalcy? Are we still behind the eight ball a little bit?   Keith Weinhold  14:44   We're still behind the eight ball a little bit. 5 million is more of a normal long term number. But yeah, I mean, if we've got 4 million now, that's, you know, 25% less still than 5 million, sort of this long term normalcy rate of existing. Home transactions. And if you're a careful listener, you notice I've been using the word existing that doesn't include new build. So you know, when you the listener out there reading headlines, always look at that closely. We talking about existing? Are we talking about new build? You can learn a lot from that when you introduce new build data that introduces an awful lot of noise. For example, even when we look at prices, sometimes we want to exclude new construction. So why is that? Why do we want to focus on existing a lot? Well, because new build can introduce a lot of aberrations to the market. For example, the size of new build properties has dropped substantially the past few years, again, coming back to the central theme of affordability to help make a home more affordable. So we're not looking at same same when the square footage of a property drops a lot. And also, another thing that's been happening as a response to the lack of affordability is you have more builders building further and further out from a central business district where there are lower land costs for that new build property as well to help meet affordability. So the takeaway is, yeah, we want to be careful when we look at numbers. Are we looking at existing? Are we looking at new? Are we looking at overall properties.   Kevin Bupp  16:22   If you believe that if rates come down, we really is that the is that the lever that has to be pulled in order for that transactional volume to kick back up and, you know, make homes more affordable for the average home buyer,   Keith Weinhold  16:34   yeah, it's certainly going to help. I mean, really lower rates is the most likely significant lever that can help with the affordability crisis. Prices are pretty firm. Home prices are up 2% year over year. It's difficult for home prices to fall. In fact, home prices have only fallen one time substantially since World War Two. A lot of people don't realize that. So home prices are firm. I expect them to stay firm. And then the other lever is if we get a huge surge in wage increases, which I really don't expect anytime soon, unless we have another really big bout of inflation. So to your point, yes, lower mortgage rates like, that's the biggest lever that can help affordability return. And to speak to mortgage rates, Kevin and help put all of this into perspective, including this affordability component, is the fact that today, mortgage rates are low, and that gives a lot of people pause. They're like, What are you talking about? Mortgage rates were 3% even as low as two point some percent, just as recently as 2021 and early 2022 What are you talking about? Like, mortgage rates are 2x to 3x that today we look at a long term perspective when we look at the arc of mortgage rates, instead of in setting up expectations where we think rates could go. And we need to look at a frame of reference. Mortgage rates peaked over 18% in 1981 that's if you had a good credit score and everything on a 30 year fixed rate mortgage. That's what we're talking about here. In fact, Freddie Mac, they're the ones that have the best, most reliable stat set for mortgage rates, and that goes back to 1971 the average mortgage rate since 1971 all the way up to today, through all these presidential administrations you know, Nixon and in the Reagan years, and Clinton and the bushes and Obama, everything You know up to today, from 1971 until today, the average 30 year fixed rate mortgage is 7.7% so that's why I talk about how mortgage rates are, you know, moderate to a little low today. That takes a lot of people back. I don't see any impetus. It's going to get us back to, say, 3% mortgage rates. So some real perspective here.   Kevin Bupp  19:06   Yeah, yeah, no. And, you know, the interesting thing again, you might have data points on this to see, is a lot of the lack, do you feel that a lot of the lack of transactional volume is also related to those folks that have locked in, you know, 3% you know, mortgages, right? Like they're they, why would they sell and ultimately trade into a, maybe a, you know, a, you know, upgrade of a home, but ultimately be paying significantly more than that of what they're paying at the present time, you know, double the cost of capital. Your rates today, 30 year, rates are where the six and a half, 7% range, I don't follow it, but yeah.   Keith Weinhold  19:42   I mean, as of today, 6.3% is is where they're at. But yeah, you have a lot of those homeowners locked in to low rates. I mean, first, if we just pull back and look at the overall homeowner landscape, four in 10 have a paid off property. So just to talk to those about the other. Or 60% that percentage that are mortgage borrowers, among borrowers, 70% still have a mortgage rate under 5% meaning it starts with a four or less. So yeah, you're bringing up astutely Kevin the lock. In effect, people are reluctant to sell and give up that rate to trade it for a higher rate. And here's what's interesting, a lot of people if they couldn't make the payments on their home and say they lost their home, something that actually happened a lot in 2008 when people were locked into in sustainable mortgages because they didn't have good credit and they didn't have good income, the borrower is in good shape today. But even if, for some reason, they couldn't make the payments on their home, and they lost their home and they had to rent. Rents are actually higher in many cases, than what that mortgage principal and interest payment is. Maybe even the mortgage principal interest, taxes and insurance that they pay today are lower than what comparable rent would be, and this helps stabilize the housing market, people are really motivated to make their payments, and they can easily do it when it is so low, speaking to that lock in effect, and we're bringing up another reason now why transaction volume is so low, that lock in effect. So homeowners are in good shape. Their payments are sustainable. They don't want to sell, and they're just staying put. They're staying in place   Kevin Bupp  19:42   tying that all back around. Keith, what does that mean for us real estate investors? I mean, is there still good value out in the marketplace? I mean, is the rent to value ratio still, you know, Is there good opportunity to be had, as far as ROI for an investor that wants to buy into a residential investment or a multifamily investment, or anything related to that of residential housing?   Keith Weinhold  19:42   Well, the deals in the one to four unit space, single family homes up the four Plex buildings, yeah, just are not as good as they used to be. The ratio of rent income to purchase price is lower than it was five years ago. And that's so simple, but that's just really the simplest formula for profitability for a real estate investor, you don't have to look at cap rate or or NOI in the one to four unit space. Let's just look at that ratio of rent income to purchase price. 20 years ago, it was easy to find a full 1% meaning, on a 200k property, you could get $2,000 worth of rent income. That's that 1% ratio. But now oftentimes you've got to find something that's more like seven tenths of 1% that would be a $1,400 rent on a 200k property. So that simple formula, and I love that, the rent income divided by the purchase price when I'm looking at properties, when I'm scrolling or scanning like that's a calculation you can do in your head. It's only if I would see a ratio that appears really good, oh, that I would like drill down and look at that property more closely. So of course, when you have something that is that simple, though, rent income divided by purchase price, there's a lot of things that doesn't tell you. You know, what kind of mortgage interest rate can you get? What kind of property tax Do you pay in that jurisdiction? But really, I love the simplicity. That's it, rent divided by price, but it has been under attack. Now today, I still don't know where you're going to get a better risk adjusted return than you do with a carefully bought income property with a loan. I've always liked fixed interest rate debt the best risk adjusted return anywhere. I really don't know of a better one than with buying real estate, because real estate investors have so many profit centers, five simultaneous profit centers, which few people understand. Yeah.   Kevin Bupp  19:42   So using that, I want to, I want to unpack the the 1% rule a little bit for those that aren't familiar with it. And again, there's a lot of variables there, as you had mentioned, you know, mortgage rate, taxes, insurance and that respective market that you that you're buying in, and so what? What are you really trying to back into when applying that rule? Is there? Is there? Is there a true cash on cash return that you're hoping to achieve, again, assuming all these other variables that we just don't know, what they are at this point, you know? Is there a target range of actual ROI that you're actually looking to achieve when applying that 1% rule?   Keith Weinhold  19:42   No, I'm just looking for any positive cash flow. You know, to your point, yeah, there's nothing like the cash on cash return needs to be at least three and a half percent or something like that. But, yeah, I still like buying a property that's that's greater than a break even. Inflation is probably going to increase your cash flow over time, even if you bought a property that that broke even or just had a trickle of cash flow or a $100 cash flow today, a lot of people don't understand that fact that right there you can't count on it, you shouldn't count on. Getting rent increases. But we all know it generally happens over time at a rate of about 3% a year, but it actually increases your cash flow. If you increase your rent 5% your cash flow can often increase something like 12% why is that? How could that happen? That's because, you know, it's key for the person that was listening closely, you get fixed interest rate debt, so your rent income goes up, your expenses increase, except for that mortgage principal and interest. Inflation can touch it. It's kind of like a mosquito buzzing against a window and always trying to get in. And inflation can't touch that in a way. It's sort of like debt that's an asset in some unusual way, or some play on words, getting that debt so So yes, you can't count on rent increases over time. We know what typically happens, and that's really part of the compelling value proposition of buying income property with a loan. You're sort of leveraging inflation. You're really on the right side of it.   Kevin Bupp  20:08   Are there any particular markets that you feel are ripe for opportunity today where you're spending your focus and energies in?   Keith Weinhold  20:08   Yeah, it's still in high cash flowing markets like Memphis, okay, little rock and a good part of the Midwest and the Midwest still has home prices appreciating faster than the national average as well. So those are some of the areas that I like. Those jurisdictions also tend to have laws, as your listeners might know this already, Kevin, they tend to have laws that benefit the landlord more so than the tenant, where you can get a prompt eviction, but those are still the areas where you do get that high ratio of rent income to purchase price on a single family rental home, you might still find eight tenths of 1% meaning $800 worth of rent for every 100k of property purchase in places exactly like that.   Kevin Bupp  20:08   I was hoping that you tell me 1% rule would is applicable.   Keith Weinhold  20:08   It's pretty rare. You know, if you do see, if you do see a property that has a full 1% rent to purchase price ratio, it could be in a sketchy area, you need to make sure that you can actually get the rent in like you would get a respectful rent paying tenant in there. That's something that we would have to look at more closely.   Kevin Bupp  20:08   Have you explored building new product? Is there an opportunity there getting at a lower basis by building ground up?   Keith Weinhold  19:42   You asked such a smart question. This is actually the first time ever, as long as I've been an active real estate investor, Kevin for more than 20 years where new build purchases for income property make more sense than existing purchases. Why is that? It's because builders know that investors and borrowers are struggling to buy and afford property and make the numbers work. Like you're talking about, that builders are incentivized to buy down your rate. For you, to buy down your mortgage rate, we deal with a lot of providers that buy down your mortgage rate to 5% or less for you, and this is a fixed, long term loan in order to help get the numbers to work. You know, especially where you might see a new build property where the rent to purchase price ratio is less than seven tenths of 1% and it's just like, ah, the numbers wouldn't work paying a higher mortgage rate, but some are willing to buy them down to as little as four and a half. However, if you're looking into buying a new build income producing property, you do want to look at that closely. Who is paying for the discount points to buy down the rate. Is it the builder, or is it you? Because some builders just suggest, hey, you can buy down. You can have your rate bought down. But yeah, the next question is, yeah, okay, who is actually doing the buy down? Yeah.   Keith Weinhold  19:43   I mean, just getting tacked on. I mean, in that instance, I'm assuming that a lot of it's just getting tacked on to the to the back end of the purchase price, or it's being baked into closing costs somewhere somebody is paying for it. More than likely the borrower is paying for it. Paying for it. Is that? Is that? Again, I'm assuming we probably have that here in Florida. Again, I don't really follow the residential market too much, but there's, as you had mentioned, like, kind of on the the outskirts of Tampa, the tertiary, necessary, tertiary, probably more secondary areas. That's where a lot of the builds are happening. Lots of these, you know, planned subdivisions. You know, hundreds and 1000s of homes being put up. And in my understanding, through the grapevine, is I hear that they're, you know, sales volumes is incredibly slow, and a lot of these builders are now offering some creative loan products, again, to what you've just stated there, to attract, not necessarily even just homeowners, but also investors, to come in and buy their product from them. Is, is there a real opportunity there, though? I mean, have you seen investors be able to benefit from buying brand new product at a fair price, with economics at work keeping as a rental?   Keith Weinhold  29:53   I have and Florida has some builders that are almost desperate. I'm a long time investor. Know personally, directly in Florida, income property, Southwest Florida, places like Cape Coral, they have been ground zero for real estate depreciation, a contraction in real estate values year over year of 10% or more in some southwest Florida markets. So like the post pandemic, migration boom is certainly over in Florida. And you know, Kevin, as little as 10 years ago, people used to talk about buy in Florida. It's cheap, it's sunny, cheap and cheerful, like you would sort of hear that sort of thing about Florida real estate. That is no longer true. Florida just is not as cheap as it used to be. It's the same or higher than the national median home price now in Florida. So yes, some builders are rather desperate. The other benefit of buying new build, especially in a place like Florida, where a lot of new building has taken place and the supply actually exceeds the demand here in the short period. You can take advantage of that, not only by getting the rate buy down, but because homeowners insurance premiums are substantially less on new build property, because they're built to today's wind mitigation and other standards than they are existing property. I have a friend that just bought a new Florida duplex through us in Ocala, Florida. That's sort of a central, North Central Florida, on that new build duplex that he paid 400k for. I saw the actual insurance premium, the the rate sheet, $694.06 $694 694 so the benefit of buying new build is you get a lower insurance premium. You get these rate buy down. Sometimes what your builder will buy for you make for you rather and of course, you're probably going to have low maintenance costs for a long time, since it's a new build property, and you get a tenant that is probably going to stay longer than the average duration. They're the first person to ever live there. It's difficult for the tenant to improve their housing situation when they have a new build income property, unless they would go out and buy, and it's a very difficult time to go out and buy. So through that lack of affordability, really, the advantage for a real estate investor is tenants are staying put longer. The average tenancy duration is up because they can't run out and be a first time homebuyer.    Keith Weinhold  32:32   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep. Text their freedom coach directly. Again. 1937795898, 77958989   Keith Weinhold  33:44   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Todd Drowlette  34:17   this is the star of the A and E show the real estate commission. Todd Rowlett, listen to get rich education with my friend Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Kevin Bupp  34:38   That even trickles down to the to the space that we're in. We're in the mobile home park space. And while we don't have a lot of rentals inside of our portfolio, most of our residents own their home and they rent the land, but throughout our portfolio, we have roughly 400 units that we own that we have as standardized rentals, and we've noticed that trend as well. Historically. 10 years ago, you. Yeah, we track actually about, I can take it back about eight years, where we actually have data to support this. This claim is that our average renter would stay about 16 months. That was fairly standard. Whereas today it's over, it's nearly three years. At this point in time, the majority are staying nearly three in there's probably, there's some variables in there. You know, eight years ago, we weren't bringing a lot of new product into our communities, whereas a lot of the mobile home parks that we purchased today do have a lot of newer mobile homes in them. So again, to your point, it's, it's a it's a newer home. It's fresh. There might not be the first person that lived there, maybe they're only the second, right? But it's still a very new home. It's only a couple years old. All the appliances are new. It's fresh, you know, it's well insulated, and it's just a high quality product, but, but it's nearly double of what we used to experience and what we used to underwrite. It's, you know, which is, which is interesting. You know, I am, I want to, I want to circle back, you'd mentioned Cape Coral. I've got quite a bit, quite a bit of experience with Cape Coral. This is not the first time that Cape Coral and Port Charlotte in those areas have crashed. I mean, like, they've got quite an interesting history in time, back during the GFC, that area down there took probably one of the biggest hits in most of Florida, while, you know, the rest of Florida got, you know, pounded pretty hard with home values and decreasing home values decreasing rents, Port Charlotte, Cape, coral, in those areas as well. It's just It looks very different down there today. As far as you know, the job basis. I mean, there's a little bit more of a, you know, you know, an economy than what existed maybe 1015, years ago. But I don't know if you know the story of Port Charlotte. Is it some interesting history that you can if you want to spend some time, go on YouTube. There's some documentaries out there about, basically when that area was created. There's a two brothers that, essentially, you know, sold, subdivided and sold swampland and sold the dream to the northeast centers to come down and buy, you know, parcels of land down in Cape Coral, port, Charlotte and in that general area. And it took a lot of time for it develop over the years, but it's a beautiful area down there. But again, I think what happened to your point? A lot of folks during the covid era were wanting to come to Florida. We were fairly free down here. The sun was shining, you know, the Gulf of Mexico was warm, and that was a good value for a lot of folks. You know, the values were driving up there. Was home inventory down there. You got a good bang for your buck back at that point in time. But again, there's not, there's not as much as many amenities and supportive economy there. And then to me, there, like you might find in the Tampa area, or you might find Orlando, or even Ocala cow is a phenomenal market right now. And yeah, oh, Cal is, for those that don't you know you mentioned, you referenced the insurance there, which is, that's a great, that's a great price for that, that policy, you know, 700 bucks, basically, that is inland. For those that don't know the geography here in Florida, that is inland. So you are fairly protected from storms, you know, hurricanes and things of that nature, which crush us here on the on the Gulf Coast. But in any event, I just thought I'd share that there's some good, pretty cool documentaries out there in Port Charlotte, in the whole area down there, but a beautiful part of the country. But just Yeah, it's, it's suffering right now. There's, I think there's, I was looking the other day on Zillow. I just play around and check and see what waterfront home prices are going for. And down there, you can basically get a you can get a canal front home going out to the Gulf of Mexico for about $500,000 which was probably closer to 800,000 during, you know, the the boom era of 2021 2022 So historically, we used to buy properties down there. This is back in 2000 and 345, before the the GFC, we could buy those same properties for 150 and $200,000 waterfront home, waterfront homes, deep water canals going out to the Gulf of Mexico. But when it crashed, some of those homes were selling for $120,000 $100,000 so it's interesting to see how things have come kind of full circle multiple times, not just down there, but in all of Florida as well. Florida is always boom and bust. You know, I think they say that with you know, you could probably speak to that most of these coastal towns, whether it be in Florida, whether it be up the eastern seaboard, the coastal markets are definitely more of a roller coaster ride than the Midwestern markets, where you invest in would you? Would you agree with that?   Keith Weinhold  39:09   Yeah, I would. And yeah, you talk about Florida being a boom and bust, and what you said is certainly true in the shorter term. Back in the global financial crisis, we saw more price blood letting in Florida than we did in other states as well. But over the long term, the long arc, I'm bullish on Florida because of just the obvious constant in migration story. In fact, if you go back to decennial censuses, all the way back to the early 1800s every single decennial census, every 10 years, the population of Florida has rose, and it rises faster than the national average, almost all of those 10 year periods. So yeah, over the long term, I certainly like Florida, but Yeah, you sure can, you know, nitpick over the. Short term, but as little as five years from now. If you bought today, as little as five years from now, I could see someone saying, like, yeah, I bought back five years ago, because we're actually in a in a short term, overbuilt condition, and builders bought down my rate. For me, this could look savvy and this could look wise. So if you're looking for opportunity, new building Florida is definitely something to look into.   Kevin Bupp  40:22    I agree. No, absolutely. Like, the long term, you know, opportunity here in Florida, it's there, you know, it's interesting. We've got the we get these hurricanes every year. Last year was a pretty impactful year, at least here on the on the Gulf side, and the neighborhood I lived in, we got flooded. Luckily, our homes in newer builds built up. But, you know, 70% of the neighbor I lived in had 444, or five feet of seawater. And as did the, you know, the long stretch of the Gulf Coast here, and it was the first time this area has ever this immediate air right where we live, has ever had a it wasn't even a direct hit. It just happened to be a massive storm surge. But it was, you know, catastrophic as far as the damage that it did. And a lot of folks that we knew in our neighborhood here. Have lived here for 1020, 3040, or 50 years, and they had never had any floodwater whatsoever. And and there was two camps where they fell in either one camp where they didn't, they whether they had the money to rebuild or not, didn't matter. Like, mentally, they were never going to end up. They were never going to deal with that again. They were moving away, like they just didn't want to go through the heartache of that again. In the second camp, we're basically, I knew it was going to happen at some point in time. This is the kind of price to live, to pay, a live in paradise and and what ultimately occurred is, you know, you saw homes going up for sale, and in the initial chatter for those that that were impacted, is that, who's going to buy that? You know? You know, they're not going to get hardly anything for it. You know, it's just like, who's going to want to live here now that has been flooded. I said, Just wait. I'll say people have us as human beings, have short term memories. We do and and I can promise you, within a few months, those homes will be gobbled up, some will be knocked down, some will be rebuilt, but inevitably, the prices will come back incredibly strong, and you'll see very limited inventory, at least in desirable markets that are here on the water. And that's exactly that happened. Within six month period of time, prices are back up. You can't get your hands on a flooded property now, or one that had been flooded, right?   Keith Weinhold  42:12   I can believe it. And this is not the way that you want to have a waterfront property when the water inundates you and comes to you, that is not the way to buy waterfront property.   Kevin Bupp  42:23   Yeah, interesting, but, uh, no, Keith has been a fun conversation, my friend. So let's, let's talk about, you know, I like to you'll peek inside your brain if you were going to start all over again, from scratch, you know, you've been at this now, what? How long? Almost two decades. It's been, been quite   Keith Weinhold  42:38   Yes, yes, more than two decades. Is that what you're asking, how would I start, starting from today?   Kevin Bupp  42:47   Yeah, like, what would you do? Where would you focus, what asset type and any particular strategy outside of what you're doing today? You know, where would you focus your time?   Keith Weinhold  42:55   Actually, it is quite a coincidence. The way that I would start all over again in real estate is the way that I did start in real estate. It worked out phenomenally, in a way it makes sense, because if it hadn't worked out phenomenally, you never would have heard of me, and I wouldn't have become this real estate thought leader or whatever, because this is a way, an everyday person with virtually no real estate knowledge and very little money. Can start out, what I did is I made the first ever home of any kind, a four Plex building where I lived in one unit and rented out the other three. This is something very actionable for your for your audience as well, Kevin. Or if maybe you're a listener that has a an adult daughter or son and they want to get started in real estate with a bang without much money, is to buy a four Plex, just like I did. You can use an FHA loan, a three and a half percent down payment. You have to live in one of the units at least 12 months, and at last check, your minimum credit score only needs to be 580 now you will get a lower interest rate if you have a higher credit score. But those are the only three criteria you need. I mean, what a country talk about? The American Dream. You can use that FHA program with a single family home, duplex, triplex or fourplex, that's the formula. That's how I began. Actually ended up living there a little more than three years. But what that did for me was remarkable, and in fact, you know what it taught me? Kevin and every listener can benefit from this. It's paradoxical. A lot of times I say things that you would not expect to hear that make you go, wait what? Whoa, how can that be? Is what it taught me is that I don't want to focus on getting my money to work for me. You probably wouldn't expect to hear that. It's actually a middle class paradigm to say, well, I don't want to work for money. I also want to get my money to work for me. I'm telling. You that that's going to keep you middle class, or worse, that's going to keep you working until old age, and you won't have an outsized life and retirement and options. If you think that the best and highest use of your dollar is getting your money to work for you, it's not what's the paradigm shift if this four Plex building taught me the way I started out, which is still the way that I would start out today, and you probably heard this before, but I'm going to put a new twist on it. Is you want to ethically get other people's money to work for you, and we can be ethical. We can do good in the world. Provide housing that's clean, safe, affordable and functional. Never get called a slumlord that way. You can employ other people's money three ways at the same time, ethically by buying an income property with a loan, like we've been talking about in Florida, or with this fourplex building. How do you do it three ways at the same time, using the bank's money for the loan and leverage, which greatly amplifies your return beyond anything Compound Interest can do. The second of three ways you're ethically employing other people's money is you're using the tenants money to pay for the mortgage and some of the operating expenses on this fourplex. And then the third way you're simultaneously using other people's money is using the government's money for generous tax incentives at scale. So the lesson is that the best and highest use of your dollar is not getting just your money to work for you, it's other people's money, in this case, the banks, the tenants and the governments. That's what you can do. I mean, what an opportunity. A lot of people just don't even know about that FHA program.    Kevin Bupp  46:41   Yeah, I actually, I wasn't, I wasn't aware that it was that low of a down payment key. That's no idea. Three and a half percent, you said, a 550 credit score, believe me, 580 minimum credit.   Keith Weinhold  46:51   And you have to, thirdly, you have to owner occupy a unit for at least 12 months. And hey, I'm not saying it's always easy. You know, you got to think about that. Your neighbors are also your tenants. And I don't know how to fix stuff. I still don't. I'm a terrible handyman, but it's good to learn a little about about human relations. And you know, letting finding a general way to let the tenants know that you have a mortgage to pay every month. I mean, just that alone can can help them ensure timely rent payments. But, and this also doesn't mean every area, or every four Plex building is is good, but, yeah, that's the opportunity. That's how I started. I would totally do it again.   Kevin Bupp  47:27   Can you use that FHA program more than once? Or is that just the one time you know your first, first, first primary home purchase?   Keith Weinhold  47:34   It's generally you can only use one at a time. There are some exceptions, like if you and your job move, like, a certain mile radius away from where you got the first one, but, yeah, generally it's only going to be one at a time. A lot of people don't use it. Don't know about it. In fact, if you have VA benefits, Veterans Administration benefits, you can get a similar program, like I was talking about, but zero down payment, rather than three and a half with an FHA loan. It's a really good, amazingly good opportunity.    Kevin Bupp  48:05   That's incredible. That's incredible. Keith, my friend, I appreciate you coming back going. It's always good to catch up with you. Good to see that you're doing well.   Keith Weinhold  48:17   Oh yeah, a terrific chat there with Kevin. I hope that you like that really. At our core, real estate investors are not day trading. We are decade trading. Now I'm in western New York today, at the other end of the state, NYU compiled some terrific statistics that you want to hear about for nearly the past 100 years. It is the annualized returns of six major asset classes. This spans, the Great Depression, a number of recessions, World War Two, the New Deal, gold standard, abandonment, brendawoods, the Cold War, Civil Rights Movements, oil shocks, Volcker rate hikes, the.com boom and crash, the 911, attacks, the housing bubble, covid, 19, AI revolution and 16 presidencies, all those ups and downs and war and peace and economic booms and economic lows, and now there is going to be a mild tongue in cheek element here, because stats like this drive real estate investors crazy, but this is often how mainstream media portrays asset class comparisons. All right, the six asset classes are stocks, cash, bonds, real estate, gold, and then inflation, which isn't in an asset class, but it's a benchmark. All of these begin from the year 1930 so spanning almost 100 years. Let's take it from the lowest return to the high. Best return the lowest is inflation. And what do you think the CPI inflation rate is averaged over the last 100 years? Any guess at all? You might be surprised. It is 3.2% Yeah, even though the Fed's CPI inflation target has long been 2% it runs hot longer than most people believe. So therefore, today's inflation rate isn't high, it's just normal. The next highest return is cash at 3.3% How did NYU measure that the yield from three months T bills? Next up is bonds. They returned 4.3% that's the 10 year treasury average of the last 100 years. The next highest is real estate at 4.7% that uses the K Shiller Index. Now we're up to the second highest. It is gold at 5.6% and the highest is stocks at 10.3% using the s, p5, 100, and this was all laid out in a brilliant chart that also shows the returns by each decade for all of these asset classes. You'll remember that I shared the chart with you in our newsletter a few weeks ago. Now you are smarter and more informed than the layperson is, you know, but they see this chart and they think, Oh, well, that's it. I've got my answer. Real Estate's 4.7% appreciation loses out to gold's 5.6 and stocks 10.3 and then they go back to watching Love is blind. But of course, rental property owners like us know that we often make five times or more than this 4.7% when we consider all those other income streams and profit centers, leverage, rents, ROA and inflation, profiting on our debt, it's often 25 to 30% total. It's sort of like judging a Ferrari by only measuring its cupholders or something. Now, would stocks 10.3% get adjusted up as well? Yeah, probably a little, because the s and p5 100 currently averages a 1.2% dividend yield, so that might be added on the 4.7% return for real estate. That cites the popular Case Shiller Index. And the way that that index works is that it uses a repeat sales methodology. So what that means is that the Case Shiller measures the sales price of the same property over time. Therefore a property would have to sell at least twice in order to be measured by this popular and widely cited K Shiller Index. So then the 4.7% appreciation figure excludes new build homes, and new builds appreciate more than existing homes, but you do have more existing homes that sell the new build homes, so we can pretty safely assume that real estate's long term appreciation rate is higher, likely between five and 6% there it is. So yeah, making comparisons across asset classes like this is pretty tricky, because investment properties leverage and cash flow gets nullified. And when you make comparisons like this, it's a big reminder that even if you can't get much cash flow off a 20 or 25% down real estate payment, sheesh, most people put a 100% payment into stocks, gold or Bitcoin, and they don't expect any cash flow. And Bitcoin isn't part of what we're looking at for this century long view, because it did not exist until 2009 and also NYU had to use some alternative statistics. Sometimes the s, p5, 100 index only came into being in 1957 and the Case Shiller Index 1987    Keith Weinhold  54:02   next week here on the show, I expect to answer your listener questions from beginner to advanced. You've been writing in with some good ones for the production team here at GRE. That's our sound engineer, Vedran Jampa, who has edited every single GRE podcast episode since 2014 QC in show notes, Brenda Almendariz, video lead, brendawali strategy talamagal, video editor, seroza, KC and producer me, we'll run it back next week for you. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 3  54:36   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Speaker 2  55:04   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get richeducation.com  

In this episode of the Academy Presents Real Estate Investing Rocks, Angel sits down with investor and entrepreneur Joe Rinderknecht. Joe shares how growing up on a ranch, working construction with his dad, and discovering Rich Dad, Poor Dad shaped his mindset and work ethic. He walks through his early days bird-dogging deals, the challenges new investors face in today's economic landscape, and how real-world experience prepared him for success in real estate. Whether you are new, stuck, or seasoned, this conversation offers practical insight and relatable guidance for navigating today's investing environment.Topics Covered• The mindset and values learned from ranching and construction• How Joe transitioned into entrepreneurship and real estate• What bird-dogging is and how it helps new investors enter the industry• Why old investing strategies don't always work in the current economic climate• The impact of economic shifts on Class C value-add properties• The importance of clear expectations when working with mentors or partners• The realities of getting started: experience vs. compensation• How today's financial pressures affect residents and operators• Creative ways to enter the investing space without capital• Joe's early investing environment in Utah and how he found opportunitiesFrom Ranch Life to Real Estate: Joe Rinderknecht's Journey Into InvestingConnect with Angel: https://www.linkedin.com/in/angel-williams-re/Connect with Joe: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joerinderknecht/

Meet Dame Doria Cordova, the hidden force behind Robert Kiyosaki & Tony Robbins wealth, leverage, and mindset frameworks that shaped two of the most influential financial teachers of our time. Doria Cordova shares the origin of Money & You, the blueprint that trained thousands of entrepreneurs globally, the power leverage, niches, synergy, and solving big problems. If you've ever wondered where the Rich Dad philosophy came from or how to think like the people who built it this conversation will change how you approach business, money, and success.Read Doria's Book, Money & You: https://a.co/d/j3EOnqALearn More About BetterWealth: https://betterwealth.com0:00 - Intro 3:01 - Who is Doria Cordova? What is Money and You?4:27 - Working with Robert Kiyosaki & Tony Robbins12:04 - Why Aren't You More Famous?13:58 - What is the Money and You Framework?15:25 - Leverage & Collaboration are the Key25:05 - Collaboration Over Competition 27:08 - Solving Major Problems 39:11 - The Three Stages of Money43:58 - Good Leverage in Business 49:43 - How to Avoid Bad Leverage in Business52:20 - Favorite Takeaways from Money & You====================DISCLAIMER: https://bttr.ly/aapolicy*This video is for entertainment purposes only and is not financial or legal advice.Financial Advice Disclaimer: All content on this channel is for education, discussion, and illustrative purposes only and should not be construed as professional financial advice or recommendation. Should you need such advice, consult a licensed financial or tax advisor. No guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of the information on this channel. Neither host nor guests can be held responsible for any direct or incidental loss incurred by applying any of the information offered.

Keith discusses seven ways to get a lower mortgage rate, emphasizing the historical impact of the 1940s GI Bill on homeownership and wealth creation.  Caeli Ridge, founder of Ridge Lending Group, digs into smart tactics like adjustable rate mortgages, DSCR loans, and down payment options, plus insider tips on boosting your creditworthiness, timing your rate lock, and planning ahead so you can maximize your returns.  They also explore trends like 50-year mortgages and portable mortgages, and the benefits of FHA and VA loans for first-time buyers.  Resources: Want expert guidance on your next real estate investment or mortgage? Reach out to Ridge Lending Group for personalized support and a full range of loan options—whether you're a first-time buyer or seasoned investor. Visit ridgelendinggroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE to take your next step! Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/582 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, seven ways you can get a lower mortgage interest rate. We'll break them down loan types available to you that you never heard of, and learn how the 1940s GI Bill shaped the mortgage that you get today on get rich education   Speaker 1  0:22   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:07   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education. You Keith,   Keith Weinhold  1:23   welcome to GRE from the Romanian Black Sea to the Egyptian Red Sea and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and this is the indefatigable get rich education before we discuss the seven ways that you can get a lower mortgage rate and more in the 1940s before my dad was born, the GI Bill gave veterans returning from World War Two access to cheap home loans, and that single policy decision might have done more to shape the modern American Housing landscape than Anything else in the last 100 years. Think about it, millions of young men, almost kids, really had just spent the better part of their early adulthood in Europe or the Pacific. They came home, married their sweethearts, started families, and suddenly America had this booming demand for housing, but demand alone doesn't build homes. You also need money. You need access to credit, and that's where the GI Bill stepped in. It didn't just thank returning service members for their sacrifice. It handed them something way more powerful, the ability to buy a home with little money down a low interest rate and underwriting standards that would frankly look like a fantasy today, that access to credit sparked one of the biggest housing booms in American history. You had these entire suburbs that sprang up overnight, Levittown in New York, Lakewood in California. These were master planned communities, and they really became a blueprint for Post War America. We had the booming 50s, and this had a lot to do with it. Here's the part that most people don't understand. This wasn't just about housing. This was about wealth creation, because for better or worse, home ownership has been the primary wealth building vehicle for the American middle class these past 100 years, when you give millions of people a subsidized path into property ownership, you're not just giving them a roof. You're giving them equity appreciation, leverage, tax benefits. You're giving them the engine, this flywheel that spins up generational wealth in a lot of ways. The GI Bill is the earliest institutional example of what I at least tell you here on the show, real estate pays five ways. Now they didn't call it that in 1947 but that's exactly what it was. Veterans earned appreciation as suburbs grew. They had amortization working for them, they collected tax advantages. Inflation slowly eroded their fixed rate mortgage balances too. And here's the thing, these weren't even speculative investments. They were homes that they lived in. Now, of course, the GI bill wasn't perfect. It expanded opportunity for millions of people, but it excluded a lot of people too. Lenders and local governments often blocked black veterans and other minorities from accessing the same benefits. That's a whole story unto itself, but the takeaway for today is, when you combine demographic momentum with favorable financing, you can remake a nation, and that's why housing policy still matters today, which we'll get. Two shortly, when you change access to credit or just tweak it, you change the trajectory of families and markets for generations, and the GI Bill proved that. So when we talk about interest rates, affordability, supply shortages, or any of the high frequency housing data that we cover here, remember that the stories aren't just about numbers. They really are about people. They're about giving ordinary Americans the chance to build wealth the same way that those World War Two veterans did through ownership, stability and the quiet compound leverage, not compound interest. Compound leverage that real estate delivers over time.    Keith Weinhold  5:49   I'm bringing you today's show from, I suppose, a somewhat exotic location. I am inside Caesar's Palace, which is right near the very middle of the famed Las Vegas Strip, that's where I'm at. The hotel staff is always accommodative of the show setup. This might seem a little strange to you, because I'm not a gambler. The reason I'm here is that my brother lives 25 minutes away, and I've been with him during Thanksgiving. Next week, I'll bring you the show from Buffalo, New York, and then two weeks from now, I have something heart warming to tell you about that, and it is a real estate story. I'll be broadcasting the show from upstate Pennsylvania. I'll be there to visit my parents. My brother's also coming in from Nevada to be there. That's where the four of us, mom, dad, my brother and I will sit around the same dining room table in the same kitchen of the same home that my parents have lived in since the 1970s nothing has changed, and all four of us know our spots at the table. And actually, it's not even called the dining room table. It is the supper table, as my parents call it so, from flashy Caesar's Palace today to Buffalo and then to Appalachian simplicity in Pennsylvania, the stability and continuity of my parents living in the same home and four wine holds sitting around the table during the holidays, it is so rare. I imagine less than one or 2% of people can do this. I'm just profoundly grateful and proud of Kurt and Penny Weinhold for being the best, most stable parents I could have asked for. It's almost too much to ask, and if you don't have that in your life. Ah, you can do something about that. You can provide the same decency and stability for your children.    Keith Weinhold  7:50   Let's talk about seven proven ways you can get a lower mortgage rate with this week's terrific guest. Though, we'll focus on investment properties. A lot of this applies to primary residences as well.   Keith Weinhold  8:07   We are joined by the founder of the lender that's created more financial freedom for real estate investors than any other mortgage originator in the nation, the eponymous Ridge lending group. And though that sounds impressive, my gosh, she didn't even need that introduction for you the listener, because she's one of the most recurrent guests in show history. Welcome back to GRE Caeli Ridge,   Caeli Ridge  8:30   I am delighted to be here as always, Keith, thank you for your support and acknowledgement. I love what you do, and I'm hoping that I can bring more value today to your listeners in what it is that we do, educating the masses, right?   Keith Weinhold  8:42   You've been doing that here for about 10 years. And yes, we're talking about a woman with a reputation for writing emails in all caps, yet still maintains a great relationship with everybody. I mean, congrats, shaile. I couldn't possibly pull that off myself.   Caeli Ridge  8:58   Thank you, Keith. And you know, I'm going to stay by my all caps, man, it's a speed thing. It all boils down to the number of seconds in the day that I can just move quickly through an email. Yeah, I love my all caps.   Keith Weinhold  9:09   Apparently recipients are still replying, well, you can get a lower mortgage rate in at least seven ways. You can get an adjustable rate mortgage, do a midweek lock in, negotiate seller credits. Have a high credit score. Do a two one buy now, which is kind of old school, but some home builders are using it boost your DTI or buy now, not later. Those are some of the strategies for lowering your mortgage rate. What are your thoughts with regard to that?   Caeli Ridge  9:39   I think all of those are viable. I would just say on the adjust for a mortgage. The pushback I would give there is, is that for residential property, specifically, single family, up to four units, we are not finding that spread between the arm and a 30 year fix. We've been the industry as a whole, secondary specifically been on the inverted yield. Now this gets a little tough. Nickel, and I won't go down that rabbit hole, but 08, 09, the housing and lending crash created an environment within secondary markets where an inverted yield has made a 30 year fixed mortgage more favorable in the rate department. Now that's not always going to be the case. I am a huge fan of the adjustable, but what would work right now is an adjustable with the all in one not to take too much time on that topic, but that would be an adjust rate mortgage that I think would save interest or reduce the rate of which interest is accruing,   Keith Weinhold  10:30   the all in one loan, which we discussed extensively back at the beginning of this year here on the show. Long term, though, I have seen adjustable rate mortgages work for a lot of people, because really, the compelling proposition of the arm is that it guarantees that you get a lower rate in the near term, and yet there's only a chance that you're going to have a higher rate in the long term   Caeli Ridge  10:53   and further. Let's I mean, let's dissect that a little bit. I am a huge proponent. I love an adjustable rate mortgage when the arm is pricing a half or a full percentage point plus over a fixed especially for non owner occupied and the reason for that is, and this is statistically speaking, feel free to look this up, guys, the average shelf life of a mortgage for an investment property is about five years. Great point, right? And we know that if that's the case, right, we're refinancing to harvest equity. We're refinancing maybe to reduce an interest rate from where the market was before, et cetera, et cetera. So that would be the first thing I would say. And then also remember, you guys the first 10 years of an amortized mortgage, 30 year fixed, amortized mortgage, how much of that payment is going to the principal? Because people will often push back by saying, well, either an interest only, or an adjustable and what happens if it changes or it goes up? Most of your payment is going to the interest anyway, and that reset to harvest equity. Borrowed funds are non taxable. We always say that, right? I think it's fully justified. So I love an arm, I just don't know, in comparison to a 30 year fixed today, like a five year ARM versus a 30 year fixed we are in a place that it makes sense, but normally, to your point, absolutely. Fan   Keith Weinhold  12:06   that spread needs to widen for the arm to make more sense. What about doing a mid week rate lock in? Is that a thing?    Caeli Ridge  12:13   Yeah. And you know, I don't have any empirical evidence here. Okay, I don't have any data points that actually prove this, except for 25 years in the business and locking loans every day of my life. There's something about a Monday and a Friday. And I have some conspiracy theories. I don't know that. I it's necessary to share them here, but midweek locks tend to be more favorable in both points and interest rate than you'll find on a Friday and a Monday. I think largely it has to do with, you know, the stock exchanges shutting down for the weekend, right? You got a Friday, you got two days in between. You got foreign markets, and all the things that can explode and happen during that amount of time. So I think they hedge a little bit. So on Friday, going into the weekend, I think that there's something about that and why interest rates are a little less favorable. And then Monday, of course, coming off the weekend, similarly, maybe there's some truth to that too.   Keith Weinhold  13:02   Now, negotiating seller credits has really been a trend to help with affordability. Tell us about specifically what you're seeing there, what's common.   Caeli Ridge  13:11   So we're talking to investors. I can tell you that the loan products you guys are going to have access to are going to cap you, okay, you're going to cap at, per guideline, 2% of the purchase price. Okay, remember that your points that you're paying when you get into locking an interest rate are going to be calculated on the loan size, all right. So the first thing to know is seller paid closing costs, maximum is going to be 2% per underwriting guidelines. That 2% is based on your purchase price. Anything that you're paying points for is going to be on the loan balance, the loan size, so there's going to be a little extra there for you that can contribute or can pay for some other closing costs, right, depending on the numbers. Now, if you're smart enough, or lucky enough, or whatever, the market is viable enough that you can negotiate more than 2% from the seller to pay towards closing costs, you're going to be limited on what you can do on the loan side. But let's say that you go and you've negotiated 4% seller will pay 4% towards your closing costs. Then in that case, you can reduce, you got the two points that you're allowed per guideline. And then you can reduce the purchase price by the difference you don't want to leave that money on the table.   Keith Weinhold  14:15   That's how it's done. And then there's just simply having a higher credit score. What's the highest credit score that really helps you get the lowest mortgage rate for both primary residences and non owner occupied properties. Loan product   Caeli Ridge  14:29   type dependent. But I would say overall, 760 and above is kind of that threshold. There are products that go 780 maybe even on the rare occasion, 800 and above. If I had to pick a number as the absolute pinnacle, I'm going to go 780    Keith Weinhold  14:41   All right, so having a credit score above those thresholds really doesn't help get you a lower interest rate. It's really just a little flex that you've got an 811, credit score, or whatever it is. Now the two, one buy down. That's something that we used to see long ago. A few home builders are bringing it back. And what that does it allow? Homebuyers to pay a lower interest rate for the first two years with the seller covering the difference, and that allows the seller to get their price. They don't have to lower the price of the home at all. But the two one buy down, and you see that written, two, one that has been employed more recently. Tell us about that.    Caeli Ridge  15:18   Well, the builders are struggling in some cases, right? The affordability buzzword is all over the place. So they've had to get creative and find ways in which they can move their inventory. So I think they've done a good job at kind of shaving off some of their margins to satisfy or improve the terms for the consumer. So I like the two. One, if you can get it   Keith Weinhold  15:37   now, one can boost their DTI as well their debt to income ratio and Taylor. When we've talked about that before, we've usually talked about reducing your debts in order to improve your DTI. However, a lot of people don't think about the fact that, oh, well, you can increase your income that lowers your DTI to help you qualify. So tell us what is the max DTI that you can have   Caeli Ridge  16:00   maximum debt to income ratio, in most cases on a full dock loan is going to be 50% now, depending on the type of income that you earn or that you've demonstrated, how you calculate that can get a little bit tricky. But if you're just a straight w2 wage earner, we don't have, you know, commissions or bonuses or anything that we consider variable income, then you just take your gross income times 50% whatever that number is, all of your liabilities on the credit report, we do not count ordinary living expenses like food and gas and utilities and cell phone bills. It's the minimum payments on the credit report. As long as whatever that add up is fits within that 50% you're good to go.    Keith Weinhold  16:37   Now, when it comes to improving our DTI to get a lower mortgage rate, I tend to think it's easier to knock out some debts to improve your DTI. But what about the other side of it? What about increasing your income to improve your DTI, lower your mortgage rate and qualify? Can you talk about some of the strategies for increasing your income with respect to DTI?    Caeli Ridge  17:02   Absolutely. And the biggest one, I think that we probably want to focus on most is going to be on a schedule E, right? That's the one that you're going to have more control over. So when we talk about rental income and how we might be able to boost that first, it might be important to share that there are two ways in underwriting that we will calculate or quantify rental income. The first way is called the acquisition year formula. I'll give you that in just a second. It's very easy, but the way I think we focus on here, because acquisition year is going to be what it is, you're going to have very little ability to manipulate or change that once our rental properties fall on our tax return, specifically the Schedule E of a federal tax return, you as the taxpayer or the borrower are going to have some access to maximize or increase the income, or, let's actually get a little bit more granular there to maximize the gain or minimize the loss, by means of depreciation, maybe a cost seg, maybe we make sure that one time, extraordinary expenses are demonstrated on the tax return in the appropriate way so that underwriting can add those things back. So I know that this sounds technical, but the scheduling is the way that I would say is the easiest for an investor to maximize income, reduce debt to income ratio. And I will close by saying that ridge lending, I think one of our most valued value adds is the ability to help our clients look at their draft tax returns on an annual basis and present them with, Hey, listen, Mr. Jones, if you file this way, this draft tax return, if it files this way, this is what it means to your debt to income ratio. Here's my advice, right? We go into a lot of depth there with our clients.   Keith Weinhold  18:39   That is a smart, long term planning piece that most mortgage companies are not going to give you. They're not going to be forward looking, looking out for your next three years of growing your income property portfolio. And shortly, we'll talk about a way for you to qualify loans where you don't have to show tax returns or W twos or pay stubs. But while we're talking about how to get a lower mortgage rate and some creative ways to do that, I brought up, buy now, not later. And what do I mean by that? What I mean is say, properties appreciate even 3% over time. Buying now, I mean that is going to net you more equity if you buy now rather than waiting, than it would in the savings from a rate drop, when you look at the appreciation run up, however, if rates go up, then you get both the lower price and the lower rate by buying now, not later.   Caeli Ridge  19:32   And I would add to that, we have to remember that in addition to a very modest 3% in the home appreciation, we should be appreciating our rents at even a modest 2% a year, right? Depending on where you are, et cetera. I know that there's exceptions to the rule. And then finally, we got to add in that tax benefit, what you're going to get in your deductions, et cetera, et cetera.   Keith Weinhold  19:51   Yeah, great point. Well, I brought up seven ways that you can get a lower mortgage rate. Can you share a few more with us? Some common ones? Because I know. That almost everyone that calls in there wants to inquire about mortgage rate as well.    Caeli Ridge  20:03   Everybody wants, yep, everybody wants to talk about the rate, despite my vervet opposition to say, do the math. Do the math. Do the math. You know, the easiest one there would be buying down the rate. I'm going to try and formulate an example. Let's say you've got a really high wage earner and in the thick of their earning years, and they're trying to prepare for retirement down the road. It's a longer term burn. They desperately need tax deductions, and the deal that they're looking at, yeah, it's okay, but they want some extra expenses on the Schedule E, maybe they buy the rate down by three even 4% because points on an investment loan transaction are tax deductible, so that might be something, and they obviously benefit from the lower interest rate. Now I may push back on this, and I think again, I know I sound like a broken record here, but we really need to do the math. What are we getting versus what are we giving up to get a 6% or five and a half percent interest rate? What does that mean in real, tangible cost, and what's that? Break even? It's actually a fairly simple calculation. When you just divide the difference in what you're getting versus what you're paying for, and that'll give you the number of months that it takes to recapture the incentive versus the expense. But that would be the easiest one. Keith, I would say buying down points, using paying additional points to get that lower interest rate,   Keith Weinhold  21:20   buying down your rate. It could feel good in the short term, but it's often not the best long term or even intermediate term move when you do the math, as you always like to say, well, you the listener here, you know that you can qualify for mortgage loans, for rental properties without needing a w2 without needing a pay stub and without even needing to show tax returns, because you need all those things for a conventional loan, but for a DSCR loan, debt service coverage ratio, you don't. So talk to us about the pros and cons of a DSCR loan versus a conventional   Caeli Ridge  21:53   loan. Okay? And I've got a hook here too, because I think the listeners are gonna be very, very pleased to hear at the end of this statement, what's happening with DSCR in conjunction or comparison, rather to the conventional so DSCR everybody means debt service, coverage ratio. It's a very simple formula. We are going to take the gross rents and divide it by the principal and interest and taxes and insurance and association. If it applies, that's it.   Keith Weinhold  22:18   $1,000 in gross rents, $800 in p i, t i, that yields a DSCR of 1.25 Correct?   Caeli Ridge  22:25   Yes, you're absolutely right. The one that I use as I, just to keep it simple, is 1000 rents, 1000 piti. That's a 1.0 right? As long as the gross rents are equal or greater than the p i, t i, you're going to be in a position to get the more favorable rates. Now that's not to say that we can't go below a 1.0 ratio. You can actually have a property, we have products that will allow the DSCR to be a point seven five. That would mean, in this scenario, if you had rents, gross rents of 750, and the piti was 1000 you can actually get that loan done. That is allowed. The rate gets a little bit hairy. So more often than not, we're at the 1.0 and above. So this is just a really great way for investors who are either recently self employed, maybe they're adjusted gross, they just write everything off for reasons that you can imagine. Why? Right? They don't want to pay the taxes. It could be 100 different reasons. The DSCR option is such a great solution to provide a 30 year fixed mortgage same same similar leverage, if not sometimes even better than a Fannie Freddie, than a conventional loan, you can usually leverage a little bit more, in some cases, on a DSCR like a two to four, for example, two to four unit residential property, Fannie Freddie, they kind of cut those loan to values a little bit, and the DSCR loans don't care about that. So you can get the same leverage as a single family would in a DSCR. The only other primary difference is these DSCR loans are going to come with prepayment penalties. Typically, the standard is about three years, but we're usually not refinancing in the first 36 months. Anyway, if you know that that's applicable to you, then you'd have to buy the prepay down or out, which you can do otherwise. DSCR is amazing. Oh, and I'll give you the little hook here. So something I have observed this is maybe very recent 4550 ish days, the margin for interest rate difference between conventional and DSCR is really starting to narrow. DSCR products are really performing well, and that interest rate improvements that we've been seeing for those products is not far off from what the Fannie Freddie's are, and I've even seen examples where DSCR beats a 30 year fixed Fannie Freddie rate. Now those are for the higher loan amounts. I can explain if you want, but otherwise, that's good news.   Keith Weinhold  24:36   Okay, this is really good news. It's a time in the cycle where dscrs could very well make sense for you without that huge documentation Shakedown that you need with W twos and pay stubs and everything else. There are a lot of nascent trends in the mortgage industry, and we're trying to separate some of them from being rumors, from being something that can truly happen. We're talking about 50 year mortgages and poor. Affordable mortgages. More on that. When we come back, you're listening to get rich education. Our guest is Ridge lending Group President, Chaley Ridge   Keith Weinhold  25:07   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest, start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom. Coach, directly, again. 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  26:18   The same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage, start your pre qual and even chat with President Chaley Ridge personally, while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com, that's Ridge lending group.com   Dana Dunford  26:50   this is hemlanes co founder, Dana Dunford. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.    Keith Weinhold  26:58   welcome back to get rich education. We're talking with Ridge lending Group President and Founder, Chaley Ridge about how you can get lower mortgage rates, and also about some trends in the industry, separating what's really a rumor in what could really happen squaring on 50 year mortgages and portable mortgages, those are both things only being discussed by the administration to help with affordability. FHFA Director Bill Pulte created some jarring news recently when he publicized this. What are your thoughts on the 50 year mortgage?    Caeli Ridge  27:39   You know, on a primary residence basis, I'm not so sure I need to maybe put some more thought into that. But for an investment property, I love it. Man, anything to keep that payment down so that, because, remember, we talked about earlier in the show here the percentage of mortgages, let's just use our 30 year fixed for a second that for a rental property that start on day one and then stroke a check 360 times later to pay that to zero. Is a fraction of a percent right? We are refinancing these things. We are selling them and doing 1031 exchanges. So anything that can keep my cash flow higher and my payment lower, I am all for it. Now, the people that push back and say, Well, I want to pay off my mortgage in 15 years. I don't want to pay extra interest, you are welcome to do that. So there's a second piece to this that I think is equally as important as maximizing cash flow, and that is your qualification. All right, if this comes to pass, and right now, it could just be noise, okay, and I'm speaking specifically for investment property, but if this is available to us, the debt to income ratio component, because think about it like this. So I'm going to keep using my 15 year and my 30 year, because that's kind of what we understand. The payment difference between a 30 year 360 month and a 15 year 180 month can be substantial depending on the loan size. I mean, it can be hundreds and hundreds of dollars for the individual that is dead set and say, I don't want to pay the higher interest. I want to pay these things off. We may have arguments about that whole strategy to begin with, but overall, if they still want to do that and that's their decision, Fine, take the 30 year fixed payment. Take the 30 year fixed mortgage. Apply the difference. You can figure out that payment difference very easily. Apply it religiously. Every month. You will cross the finish line in about 15.4 years. Download an amortization calculator online. You can find them everywhere. Plug in your numbers, and you'll see what I'm talking about. If you were to do this, let's say the difference is 200 bucks a month, and you send it in every month with your 30 year fixed mortgage payment, you will cross the finish line to pay that thing off in about 15.4 years. So yes, you'll pay a few extra months of interest. But what have you done to your qualifications, right, your payment now on your debt to income ratio, when we're looking at this thing for a future optimization, never take the shorter term amortization, ever, ever, ever, you won't pay the higher interest that the 30 year or the 50 Year will probably come with because you've accelerated the payoff so long, if that's your choice. Now for everybody else that really wants. To maximize that cash flow. And they get that, they're going to be refinancing this every five, six, whatever it is, years take it, man, I am all for the longer term amortization on a rental.   Keith Weinhold  30:10   I agree with you. I even like the 50 year on a primary residence, but yeah, Chaley, right here on the show, several weeks before Bill Pulte made the announcement, I actually talked about the 50 year mortgage and compared it to the 30 and the reasons that I like it because I knew there was a chance it could be coming, since this administration is trying to do so much to help out with affordability, people buy based on a payment, not a price that lowers the payment. A 50 year mortgage helps you benefit from inflation, and there are a lot of other advantages that have to do with that, although you probably are going to pay a higher interest rate on a 50 than you would a 30. And you know, Chaley, when the 30 year mortgage had its Advent just after World War Two, I'm going to guess 75 years ago, people were having this same conversation like, oh, 30 years, my gosh, you're never going to pay off the home. And really, that's not what it's about.    Caeli Ridge  31:01   Not at all, not at all. And remember, you guys, I would encourage everybody listening to this to actually go get that amortization table and see how much interest is baked in and how it is applied and paid. It is the back end of any of these amortized mortgages where the principal actually starts to get applied in a meaningful way. The 50 year mortgage, or the longer term amortization is a huge advantage. I'm speaking for investors. Mostly. I love it.   Keith Weinhold  31:26   Some people say, are you nuts? Look at how much more interest you're paying over the life of the loan on a 50 year mortgage versus a 30 year mortgage. We already touched on that you're not going to keep that loan for the life of it, and if you just take the difference from the lower payment that a 50 Year gives you, and invest that in 8% return, you are going to crush 2x to 3x oftentimes, what the paltry interest savings are over several decades,    Caeli Ridge  31:26   and somebody else is making that payment right. We have tenants that are responsible   Keith Weinhold  31:47    100% and then there's something that I don't know if portable mortgages would fly. And what this means is that when borrowers move, they could keep the rate, keep their term and keep their lender, presumably for the new home you might have seen it in the news. You the listener that Fannie May remove the minimum credit score requirements from desktop underwriting. And Chaley, I think you let me know elsewhere that those changes don't affect non owner occupied, but of course, it could affect the broader housing market in pricing. What are your thoughts about lowering the credit score requirement   Caeli Ridge  32:28   so similar to the portable stuff, until it really reaches mainstream and it affects the non owner occupied I'm not deep diving into those things. The basis of it, though, is, is that, yeah, they're removing that minimum credit score requirement from a du underwrite that stands for desktop underwriter, as you said, that is Fannie Mae's sophisticated, automated underwriting system, and I think it's just going to give more eligibility to lower income households and people trying to become homeowners that have found the barrier for entry very restrictive because They have credit issues.    Keith Weinhold  33:00   Well, let's talk about FHA and VA loans, something that we have rarely, if ever touched on. Our listeners know that I started out making my first ever property of any kind, an FHA loan with three and a half percent down on a fourplex, living in one unit, renting out the other three. Tell us about some trends there in FHA and VA loans   Caeli Ridge  33:21   we actually just did house hack campaign. We did a webinar on it, co living, all those different ways in which, you know, the younger generation, especially, and this is true for anyone. I don't want to pigeonhole it, can get themselves into home ownership and propel them into the real estate investing as an asset class. I am such a big fan of this model, in this strategy, for anybody that's interested and willing to kind of coal mingle or habitat, like you did a four Plex at three and a half percent down, you've got three tenants that are making your mortgage payment. VA, likewise, any of the Gubby loans, which include VA, FHA, USDA, you can get high, high leverage and up to four units. So I'm a huge fan of that. And then the CO living is another thing that I think is not quite mainstream, but I think it's gaining steam    Keith Weinhold  34:09   for those that don't know what we're talking about, you can use an FHA loan with a three and a half percent down payment, as long as you live in one of the units, your credit score can even be pretty low, and you can do that with a single family home, duplex, triplex or fourplex. You can get those same benefits with a VA loan and zero down   Caeli Ridge  34:29   USDA also zero down if you're in the right zip code. How does one qualify for a USDA loan? You know, there's a website I would have you check out. We don't do a ton of those. We have the ability, of course, but there's income restrictions and all of this. They've got, actually, a pretty slick website where you can go online, type in the zip code, make sure it's in a rural area, what your income is. There's all these inputs, and it'll tell you if you'd be a candidate for it. But yeah, it's good. Rates zero down. I like the product.   Keith Weinhold  34:56   Well, there have been a lot of newsy items when it comes. Comes to mortgages. Caeli and I think we should drop back before we're done here and talk about the basics. Just basically, what does it take to get a non owner occupied loan for residential income property?   Caeli Ridge  35:12   You know, there's so many options for investors today that I would say that if you have access to and even with what we just said, house hack. I mean, listen, if you've got 3% down, three and a half percent down, you can probably assure yourself you can get into a property. And if you can't qualify from a income debt to income ratio perspective, you've got three or four other models, which include DSCR, bank statement loans, asset depletion loans, overall, I would say that this is an individual conversation. Chances are you could probably qualify today, and if you can't, one of the things that I love about Ridge lending is, is that we're going to help you plant the seeds and show you how to qualify. If it takes you three months or six months or a year, that's what we do.   Keith Weinhold  35:56   Yeah, we've definitely noticed the difference here and that you do help that investor with long term planning? I do my own loans at ridge, and my assistant here at GRE she recently got the ball rolling with you in there at Ridge as well.   Caeli Ridge  36:11   Brenda, yes, yes, that was fantastic. We are very looking forward to helping her.   Keith Weinhold  36:16   Well, you know, chili, I've come here with a lot of questions that I had. What's the question No one's asking you, but you wish that they would.   Caeli Ridge  36:25   I think it probably would be for me, planning. You know, we get a lot of questions about interest rates. That's kind of top of mind for everybody. More about planning, having people that are interested in real estate as an asset class and an investment have the conversations to say, this is where I'm at today. This is where I'd like to be in five years. Tell me how to get there, and we can have those high level conversations that really sort of reverse engineer it and say, Okay, this is where you stand today from an underwriting perspective. This is where you need to be, and here's how we're going to get you there. It's always about planting seeds and creating those roadmaps, as I like to say so I would say that that would be top of my list.   Keith Weinhold  37:02   That's exactly what you do in there, and that's really what sets you apart. Well, remind our audience how they can get a hold of ridge.   Caeli Ridge  37:11   Yes, there's a couple ways. Of course, our website, Ridge lending group.com Please email us info at Ridge lending group.com and then call us toll free. 855-747-4343, 855-74-RIDGE  is an easy way to remember.   Keith Weinhold  37:25   It's really been valuable this time. Chaley, thanks so much for coming back onto the show.   Caeli Ridge  37:29    Appreciate you. Keith.   Keith Weinhold  37:36   Oh yeah, good pointed info from Chaley over at Ridge, I think that the important things for you to remember from our conversation is that, gosh, isn't it so glaring like in your face that you have options. All these options when you engage with a lender, you're going to learn that there are probably loan programs that you've never even heard of, some that you might fit into and even if you aren't adding more property, if you're not in that phase, there are ways that you can take your existing loans and consolidate them or refinance them, or use them to produce a tax free windfall for yourself and the US is often the envy of other world nations with the flexibility that we have here in our mortgage market. I've never known anyone that does this better than Chaley and her team. I mean, they are real difference makers. If you learn something on today's show, hey, Don't hoard the good stuff. Engage in the nicest kind of wealth redistribution. Tap the Share button right now and share this on social, or text this episode to one friend who'd appreciate it. That would mean the world to me. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  38:57   Nothing on this show should be considered specific personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Keith Weinhold  39:25   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, getricheducation.com  

Keith tells how much he paid for his first property and how he traded up for more and larger properties.  He highlights the benefits of owning real estate, noting that 63% of the median American's net worth is in home equity and retirement accounts, while the top 1% has 45% in private business and real estate.  He also shares his personal journey and emphasizes using other people's money to grow assets. Discover why outdated rent control policies harm housing supply and affordability.  Learn innovative ways to turn your property's unused spaces into effortless cash flow with today's best peer-to-peer platforms.  Sign up at GREletter.com to grow your means, and join a thriving community passionate about breaking free from financial limits! Resources: These platforms let property owners creatively monetize underutilized spaces. Neighbor.com – Rent out your garage, basement, driveway, or unused space. Swimply.com  – Rent out your swimming pool by the hour. StoreAtMyHouse.com  – Rent out your attic, closet, or other home storage spaces. SniffSpot.com  – Rent out your backyard as a private dog park. PureStorage.co  – Rent out extra storage space such as garages or sheds. PeerSpace.com  – Rent out your space (home, backyard, loft, warehouse, etc.) for events, meetings, or photoshoots. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/581 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:01   Welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, talking about how I personally built and grew wealth myself with real numbers and real properties, what a rent freeze actually means to you, and how you could be losing income by not creatively generating more rent from properties that you already own. I'll talk about exactly how today on Get Rich Education.   Speaker 1  0:27   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:12   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:29   Welcome to GRE from Stonehenge, England to Stone Mountain, Georgia and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you're listening to get rich education. I visited Stonehenge and made, by the way, today I'm back for another incomprehensibly slack jawed performance here, still a shaved mammal too. Status hasn't changed. And remain profligate and unrepentant about the whole thing. You probably know it by now that if you're listening here and you want to learn and do things the same way that everyone else does things, then you are squarely in the wrong place. I really mean it more on that later. But you know, Wall Street doesn't scorn real estate because it's risky. They dislike it because it doesn't scale the way that they need it to private real estate can get messy, operational, illiquid. Every real estate deal is different. Every market has its own physics. You can't package it into a fund with a push button deploy strategy. And that's precisely the point. The modern financial system rewards frictionless products that trade constantly and generate fees instead building real, durable wealth has never been frictionless. Here's what the wealth distribution actually shows for the median American. 63% of net worth is in home equity and retirement accounts. For the top 10% that tier, 25% is in real estate and private business ownership. But for the top 1% that highest tier, 45% combined is in private business equity and real estate. So as you approach the top 1% it's more skewed toward owning a business and directly owning real estate. Wall Street, they only offer derivative exposure to real estate through mega funds and REITs. But exposure isn't ownership. Your best risk adjusted returns live in the deals that are too small and too messy for institutions to touch, and that's where your yield lives. The control, the opportunity, the world's enduring fortunes weren't built just by buying exposure. They were built by owning things, land companies, assets that require some sweat to get them going. The next decade favors owners over allocators, the stuff that pays you perpetual dividends. So the irony is that the very things Wall Street avoids the messy hands on part of real estate. Oh, well, that's what makes it such a powerful wealth builder. And see, even, as we somewhat found out last week when we talked about AI property management here on the show, you can't fully automate relationships or construction or management, but that friction is exactly where the margin lives. What makes real estate frustrating for institutions is exactly what makes it valuable for operators and long term owners like you and I. It's the nuance, the inefficiency and the need to actually. Know something about a market, rather than just model it. Wealth that lasts comes from assets that you can influence, not just monitor, and that is the difference between you having mere exposure and true ownership. You can't outsource legacy, the messy path of ownership is often where meaning in real freedom is found. You've got to tend to the garden somewhat, whether your properties are professionally managed or self managed, but some people get overwhelmed if they're asked for a log in and a password, even we all know that feeling somewhat well, then they stay metaphorically logged out of success. Think about how easy remotely managing your real estate portfolio is today. Sheesh 200 years ago. There was no anesthesia. We had smallpox, brutal physical labor, no electricity today. What if a website tells you that you've got to reset your password? Oh my gosh, is the deal often just overwhelming? Can you imagine the effort now, two weeks ago, I mentioned to you that I went back and visited the first piece of real estate that I ever owned, that seminal blue fourplex. But did I ever tell you how I grew that seed into a massive real estate portfolio, and how you can do it by following GRE principles? Let me take you through the early steps here so you can see how you can get something similar going. Of course, your path will look different, but this is going to spawn a lot of ideas for you. I think you already know about my 10k to 11k down payment into that first ever fourplex as the FHA three and a half percent down. Owner occupied, but I didn't buy another piece of real estate for over three years, because real estate just was not that driving thing in my life yet. So I lived in one of those really modest four Plex units longer than I had to three plus years after that, I moved out to a pretty modest, still single family home five miles away, that I had just bought. And since I vacated one of the four Plex units in order to do that. Now, I had four rent incomes instead of three. But here is really the pivot point with what happened next. Now, what would most people do? They might hold on to that four Plex, keep self managing it, and when they could, perhaps aggressively, make principal payments, getting the building paid off before its organic 30 year amortization period. And then what else would they do once it was paid off? Say that would take them 12 years, which would entail a lot of sacrifice, like working overtime at their job and skipping vacations. Oh, they think something like, Oh, now the cash flow is really going to pour in with his paid off fourplex? Yeah, it sure would increase a lot, but after 12 years of toil and sacrifice cashflow off of one fourplex still wouldn't even let you quit your job. Staying small doesn't work, plus you live below your means for a really long time that is sweat and time that you're never going to relinquish. You started working for money. Rather than letting other people's money take over and work for you, it is right there waiting to do that for you. So instead of that path, what I did is when equity ran up in that first fourplex building. Its value increased from 295, to 425, in three and a third years, I did exactly the opposite. I borrowed the maximum out of that first fourplex building, 90% CLTV, and used those tax free funds. Yeah, tax free funds, when you do that to both spend money, well on vacations and make a 10% down payment on a second fourplex building that costs 530k now I'm still living in the single family home while I've got the two fourplex buildings, both with 90% loans on them, still cashflowing A little so eight rent incomes, more debt than I ever had, 10 to one leverage on two fourplexes, and this was all less than five years from the time that I bought the first fourplex. And yes, it probably took some password resets in there. Then next I learned that investing in only one Metro, which is what I had done to that point, that's actually pretty risky, because all eight of my rent incomes, plus my own primary residence, were exposed to the whims fortunes and misfortunes of only one economy. This was in 2012 now, so I started buying turnkey single family. Rentals in other economies that make sense. Investor advantage places is what you've got to look for, Florida, Texas, Ohio, Alabama, Tennessee. My first turnkey was bought in the Dallas Fort Worth metro. I know I've told you that before, all right, but how was I buying more even though I was still working a day job in a cubicle for the D, o, t. Well, it wasn't from my job, because that job is working for money. What it was is borrow tax free and grow, borrow tax free and grow, borrow tax free and grow. By then, enough equity had accumulated in the first two fourplexes that I traded, one for an eight Plex and the other for an 11 Plex. Now we're getting up to $3,500 of monthly cashflow at this point, which is probably 5k plus per month in inflation adjusted terms. And the 8plex cost 760k and the 11 Plex cost 850k back then, and I still remember that that was a big day for me back then, those buildings closed on either the same day or on consecutive days. I forget. Well, that was 1.6 million in purchases. Maybe that's two to two and a half million in today's dollars. And see that is sure more than what one paid off fourplex would have given me on that old slow track, yet I had all of this faster than waiting 12 years to aggressively pay off one fourplex. And you know, some could say back at that time, they would look at that situation from the outside and say, Keith, where did you get the money to make 20% down payments on that 1.6 million worth of real estate, that is 320k cash? Did you save up all the money? No, I didn't. I didn't have the ability to save that much money at my job. Did you use your existing properties like ATMs, raiding one property to buy another. Yeah, that's exactly what I did. That is the use of other people's money that is wiser than spending my time away from loved ones by selling my time for dollars that I'm never going to get back. And by the way, I have always been the sole owner of properties. No partners here. Now, at this point, I've got dozens of running units spread across multiple states, all professionally managed. And by the way, eight doors is the most that I've ever self managed, because I got professional management involved after that. Oh, there are a ton of lessons in there about what I just told you, many of them, which I've sprinkled through more than 500 episodes now, but now that I told you where I came from, do you know the lesson that I want to leave you with here on this one, for the most part, it's that I'm not even using my own money to do this now, I did add some of my own money for down payments. Sure, by far the minority portion, primarily and centrally. I keep leveraging the bank's money, and they make the down payment for me on the next property. Borrow tax free and grow, borrow tax free and grow, borrow tax free and grow. Yes, the pace of you doing this is going to fluctuate over time, but that is the playbook that I just gave you right there. Now I've done it in cycles that feel slower because appreciation is lower, but interest rates tend to be lower during those times. And I keep doing it in cycles that move faster because appreciation is higher and interest rates tend to be higher during those times. I've done it when lending was loose, like pre Dodd Frank, and I've done it when lending was tight and inflationary. Times supercharged this whole thing. Sooner than later, you would rather get $5 million worth of real estate out there under your belt, all floating up with inflation and appreciation, not just $1 million worth, $1 million worth, that's more like sticking with one fourplex and trying to pay it off. Anything worth doing, anything in your life is worth doing. Well, look, other people's money is still available to me and to you. So using my own money back when I was an employee, I mean, that's exactly when I would have had to trade more of my finite time for dollars and see, that's what the masses do, and that's precisely what keeps them as the mediocre masses. I really mean it. Now, I wanted to make things real for you with that soliloquy.   Keith Weinhold  14:47   Later today, I'll discuss the GRE principles. Did that formative story spawn? A few weeks ago, it made substantial news inside and outside the real estate world that Zohran Mamdani was elected to be the next New York City Mayor. His first day on the job will be the first of the coming year. And actually, it's easy for you to remember how New York City mayoral terms work, because it is the same as the President of the United States. Each term lasts four years, and they can serve up to two consecutive terms eight years. Let's you and I listen into the audio from this short video clip together. This Mamdani campaign spot ran back before election day, but it tells you what he stands for and where he's coming from with regard to rent. In a slightly corny way, the ad shows various tenants popping their heads out of apartment windows and such, saying like, Hey, wait, what? You're going to freeze my rent?   Speaker 2  15:50   I'm Assemblyman Zohran Mamdani, and I'm running for mayor to freeze the rent for every rent stabilized tenant.   Unknown Speaker  15:57   Wait, you're gonna freeze my rent?   Speaker 3  15:59   Yes, did I hear rent freeze?   Speaker 4  16:02   Yes, this guy's gonna freeze the rent. No. Pike none. This guy's gonna freeze the   Unknown Speaker  16:09   rent. It's true.   Dani-Lynn Robison  16:12   As your next mayor, I will freeze your rent paid for by Zoran for NYC.   Speaker 5  16:17   The banner at the end of the ad reads, Zoran for an affordable New York City. Oh, yeah, slogans like that are so catchy for anything. All right, he says he's going to freeze the rent for every rent stabilized tenant. And rent control and rent stabilization, they mean very similar things, ceilings on the rent. I'm soon going to tell you what I think about that, and I've got more on Mamdani shortly, but it's not going to be political This is not that kind of show. This is an investing show. I think that even our foreign listeners know how big and influential New York City is. It's not the political capital, but it is the capital of so many things in the United States, it's America's largest city by far, eight and a half million just in the city proper, 20 million in the metro. And New York's growing in sheer number of people. The Metro gained more population than any other city, almost a quarter million people added just last year, even if you doubled the population of the second largest city, LA, New York City would still be larger. All right. Well, how did we get here? A quick story of New York City rent control is that in 1918 New York City passed its first flavor of rent control, and that was the first US city to do so that didn't solve the problem. So in 1943 Congress passed the emergency price control act, and its name implied a temporary patch during World War Two. But even after it expired, and even after the war ended, New York State chose to make it basically permanent in 1950 that didn't solve the problem. So in 1962 New York state passed a law allowing cities to enact expanded rent control if they declared a, quote, housing emergency. Well, New York City did, and that housing emergency has essentially continued unresolved. Still, what they consider an emergency condition persists today, yeah, all these decades later. I mean, really a what, 60 to 70 year long emergency condition that didn't solve the problem. So in 1969 new york city passed what they called rent stabilization. It's really just a new flavor of rent control, and this greatly expanded the number of properties that were subject to these rent regulations. And about half of New York City's apartments are subject to that law that didn't solve the problem. So more expansion and more tweaks of regulating the rent were made in the decades that followed. You had notable ones in 1997 2003 2011 in 2015 but none of them solved the problem. So in 2019 New York expanded rent stabilization to include what they call vacancy control. Now what that means is rent caps are now applied to new renters, not just those existing tenants renewing a lease, and it also granted more tenant protections that didn't solve the problem. So in 2024 New York State passed what they call good cause eviction. That is a third expansion of rent regulation in these tenant protections. This time, they just gave it a slick name, kind of apropos of Madison Avenue's famed market. Marketing prowess. I suppose that didn't solve the problem. And by the way, rent caps came in below not only the rate of inflation, but also below household income growth almost every year over the last decade, and in some years, no increase was allowed at all. That is a rent freeze. But that didn't work either. And meanwhile, New York's public housing agency has 80 billion in deferred maintenance needs, and it's running a $200 million plus operating deficit. So government run housing that hasn't worked either. All right? Well, that brings us to 2025 where New York City is electing a mayor who campaign on freezing the rents and expanding public housing. So New York City now has, for over a century, chosen to expand and rebrand these ideas that just haven't worked, and yet they keep coming back for more and yeah, what exactly is the word for doubling and tripling and quadrupling down on ideas that have proven not to work? Is that word stupidity? Hmm, so throughout that history that I just brought you from 1918 whenever I say that didn't work, what do I mean by that? And here's the big takeaway for you. What I mean is that rent control hasn't worked in New York City because it discourages landlords from maintaining rental housing, and certainly from building new rental housing. So what that does is that it shrinks the supply over time When demand exceeds supply, you know what happens to price? And in Manhattan, just the studio apartment now averages $4,150 and the average rent citywide, that's Manhattan, Brooklyn, Queens, the Bronx and Staten Island, which does include some rough areas in this average rent is $3,560 so as a result, what really happens here is that rent control helps a few lucky tenants while driving up rents and then worsening the shortages for everyone else. So what is the solution here? It is simple. Actually do less. I mean, isn't it great when you can solve a problem in your life by actually doing less? Yeah, drop the regulations against building and drop all forms of rent control, that way we'll have more building, and with higher supply, natural price discovery could take place. So he says he's going to freeze the rent for every rent stabilized tenant. And you can start to understand why we don't discuss investing in New York City Housing very much on GRE what we do. We talk about it as a model of what not to do. The good news is that I don't have any evidence of rent control spreading into the investor advantage areas that we talk about here, like the southeast and the south central part of the United States and the Midwest. But here's the thing, just ask yourself this question, what if there was a force imposed on you by popular vote that froze your income. Okay, I'm talking about no matter what you do from work you're a software engineer, a doctor, a nurse, a paralegal, a carpenter. Would you think that was really unjust if your profession were singled out, and then voters said, hey, no more raises for you. We don't care if there's inflation, we don't care if you're getting better at your job. We don't care if you have rising expenses. We're going to put a cap on your income. How would you like that? Well, look, in New York City, they're voting for landlord's income to be frozen. They are singling out one profession, and these are really important people. These are the housing providers. So by the way, I've heard two people describe New York City mayor elect Zohran mandami. Is a good looking man? Is he good looking? I had to go look again. When people said this, I guess he's not bad looking. And hey, despite being a heterosexual male, I can say that some guys are good looking. I just never thought that with him.   Speaker 5  24:32   Now, do you have one friend kind of have that type of friend who always just seems to know what's happening in the housing market? Well, that person could be you. There is a way to do that. Boom, it's easy, and you're going to sound smart without reading a single boring, fed report. I don't sell courses. I don't wear sunglasses indoors, and I definitely don't tell you. To flip houses on Tiktok. I just talk here, and I send you a smart, short real estate newsletter. That's it. This is smart stuff that you can brag about at boring dinner parties, and you've got a lot of those coming up here at the holidays. It is free. I write our letter myself, and I'd love to have you as a reader, sign up at greletter.com it's quick and easy. Your future wealth will thank you for it. See what I did there. It takes less than three minutes to read, and it is super informative. GREletter.com Again, that's greletter.com, I've got more straight ahead.    Keith Weinhold  25:45   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly again. 1-937-795-8989   Keith Weinhold  26:57   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Dani-Lynn Robison  27:30   this is freedom family investments, co founder day. Lynn Robinson, listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold, and don't quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  27:37   welcome back to get reciprocation. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, earlier this year, I talked to you about new ways where you can generate more income from the properties that you already own, and doing that through peer to peer leasing platforms, I got feedback from you that you loved it when I talked about it on that episode. Well, I've got more of them to tell you about today. This is exciting. Is there money sitting right under your nose and you haven't even collected it yet? And sometimes this happens in the world. This has nothing to do with finding Uranus, but it is similar to how they just discovered a new moon of Uranus, even though it's only six miles wide. Yes, that's something that scientists recently discovered, yes, much like this new small moon of Uranus that was really always there, but just discovered, metaphorically, this is what we're talking about with your real estate here now. This is a lot like how Airbnb rattled the hotel world about 15 years ago. These platforms let you rent out space and amenities that you already own but barely use. Neighbor.com, is the first one. I'm not going to say.com every time, because most of them are that way, and they've got a mobile app of the same name, all right, neighbor that's like Airbnb for your garage or your basement or even that creepy crawl space that you never go into. So instead of letting junk collect dust, you rent out your unused space to people who need that storage, meaning then that their clutter pays your mortgage. So customers request space and then you approve it. That's how it works. In fact, we have a woman here on staff at get rich education that easily made about 1000 bucks personally on neighbor, she rented out a parking space in her driveway. She rented that space to a college student that needed a place to park her car while she went back home for the summer. You can easily do that too. Then there. Swimply, S, W, I, M, P, L, Y, rent out your pool by the hour. Yes, your pool is no longer just for cannonballs, awkward barbecues and tanning sessions that you regret, although not typically, I've read about how some people have made passive income streams of $15,000 per month this way. I mean, gosh, did Marco Polo just get turned into a side hustle? Or what that is, swimply. Then there is store@myhouse.com Do you have an empty closet or an attic? You can turn that into a treasure vault for stranger stuff, and you can get paid while their clutter hides in your home instead of their home. So think of it as maybe some pretty passive income, only dustier, and who even lives there in your attic right now? Anyway, a bunch of raccoons. They're not paying your rent again. That is called store at my house. Sniff spot. It turns your backyard into a private dog park. Yeah, local pet owners can book your yard by the hour to let their pups run and sniff and play. You provide the grass. They bring the zoomies, and you pocket the cash that is sniff spot, Pure Storage. That one is a.co when people need storage, you swoop in like a friendly capitalist neighbor with your extra space. So you rent out your garage or a shed, or, say, even a corner of your basement, and you watch empty become income, you are basically running a mini Self Storage empire without the neon sign. I mean, sheesh, you are kind of like Jeff Bezos with cobwebs here. Okay. Again, that is purestorage.co, then there's peer space. Now I've used this one before, personally, and so has someone else here on staff on GRE she actually told me about it. What I did is I paid for a few hours as a renter, not the landlord on peerspace. In fact, I rented this space this past summer to give an in person real estate presentation where I covered real estate pays five ways and the inflation triple crown and all of that with peer space, you rent out your space for events, okay, so your home or your backyard or loft or some funky warehouse, you rent that out by the hour, and those events could be film shoots or workshops or parties or other events. That's what peer space is for. I mean, that could be a cool backdrop for an influencer or a film crew that has a pretty big budget. Renters come to you with alacrity. They will come to you because they can often save 50% or more versus using more traditional avenues. There, in fact, even public storage, like that's the company name Public Storage. They're the nation's largest self storage space operator. They even use neighbor.com to help lease out their leftover inventory. And so do some REITs that have extra space at their office or retail or apartment properties. They use neighbor.com as well. All right, so that's my roundup of more peer to peer leasing platforms, a few more of them than I told you about earlier this year, and the types of listings you can get creative. People are getting creative. They are monetizing everything from empty barns to vacant strip mall storefronts to church parking lots. I mean, consider how often church parking lots are empty. They're empty almost every day except Sunday. So get creative and think about space that's not being used. One thing to look out for, though, is that your HOA might try to crush your entrepreneurial spirit here. So keep that in mind. Just look around. Do you own any underutilized space or asset that you can rent out. Well, chances are there's already a peer to peer rental platform for it. And when you visit any of these platforms that I told you about, I mean, you're probably already going to see people offering space in your neighborhood. You'll be surprised.    Keith Weinhold  34:39   And this is not some unproven fad. Turo really took off about 10 years ago when they realized that most Americans' cars just sit idle, more than 95% of their time in their driveway or in their garage. Well, at that point, everyday people started to lease out their cars. Cars on Truro. So the bottom line here is that if you own most any real estate, then you've got options, and you can often make the rules peer to peer. Leasing platforms add new income streams to your life, and if you read my Don't quit your Daydream letter, you'll remember that I wrote about those resources and gave you their links and everything. See, that's the type of material that I put in the letter sometimes and again. You can get it at gre letter.com It shows you how to build wealth, much like I've been talking about on the show today. This is vital, because the conventional consumer finance world, you know, they just don't tell you about things like this. For example, did you ever wonder why economists aren't rich like maybe you would think that they would be Well, it's because schools and universities, they don't really teach you how to make money so someone can have an advanced degree, a Master's, or even a doctorate. That degree will be in finance or in economics, but they're still broke, or they're still trapped by their job, because the only way they know how to make money is by having a job. There's nothing wrong with having a job, but that's the only thing they know. They never learn how to earn and multiply money like with what I've been discussing today. Economists make between 70k and 180k per year in America today, you know, school taught both us and them the theory of money, how it's counted, how it's tracked, and how it flows through the system, but it really didn't teach them how to build a little diverter device on that flow to earn it or create it or leverage it to build freedom for themselves. And that is why this show is here. That's not a knock on economists. Economists are brilliant people, and some of the best known ones are guests on the show here with us. At times, we don't just want to live in a world of models and charts, though, when you build real world wealth with mortgages and markets and moves that don't always fit inside a formula, and certainly not a conventional one that you grew up with. So when you hear the experts talk about where the economy's heading, sure listen to them. I listen to them, but be sure to apply that to your own balance sheet, because you don't build wealth in theory, you build it in real life.    Keith Weinhold  37:44   Then how do you get a good deal? Build a relationship with a GRE investment coach like Naresh. Here you can do that on just 130 minute call with him, and then when the deal that you want becomes available, he'll let you know. By the time you find something on the internet, it's going to be too late, because that means a lot of people have already passed on that deal. If it's already out there publicly, like I said earlier, if you want to learn and do things the same way that everyone else does, then you are squarely in the wrong place. I really mean it. And why would that be? In fact, what does everyone else have? Not enough money at the end of the month, a budget where they constantly have to make sacrifices to meet it, because they think that is the way and they live below their means instead of grow their means. The underlying philosophy here at GRE is, don't live below your means. Grow your means. In fact, we have a T shirt with Grow Your means on it and our logo on it in our merch shop. That's why GRE has a tree in the logo. Grow your means. Instead of shrinking your lifestyle to fit your income, it's about expanding your income to fit your ambition, so don't cut your dreams to match your paycheck. Grow your paycheck to match your dreams. This really reflects the abundance mindset behind get rich education, that wealth isn't built by pinching pennies, but by creating more cash flow and assets and income streams in practical terms, like with what I talked about, about growing my own portfolio back at the beginning of today's show, this means buying cash flowing real estate that's growing your means leveraging good debt that's growing your means using inflation to advantage, that's growing your means investing in yourself or in new ventures. That's growing your means it's the mindset opposite of budget, harder. It is earn smarter at its core, grow your means. What that means is expand your capabilities in. Not just your comfort zone. Use creativity and leverage to multiply your results. View financial growth as a positive, proactive act, not a greedy one, because you're going to serve others with good housing and maintain it. This all encourages abundance over austerity, and it's the same idea behind the tagline financially free beats debt free.    Keith Weinhold  40:27   Thanksgiving is coming up this week, and I'll tell you something. Luckily, American ingenuity improved since the Pilgrims left England, traveled to a totally new continent, and called it New England. Fortunately, we have become more innovative since then, you are about to have more topics for conversation with family at the holidays. And note that Gen Z, ages 13 to 28 they are more likely to talk money today than they did previously. They are kind of the share everything on social generation. Tell relatives about your real estate investing, or at least some of the ideas you have. Tell them, perhaps something that they would be surprised to hear, that you learned on this show, like mortgage rates are, in fact, historically low today, actually, or something like that. And at Thanksgiving or Christmas, please tell a friend about the show. GRE is the work of my life, and that would mean the world to me. If you like listening every week, tell a friend about the show. Now use the Share button on your podcatcher if this show helps you see money or real estate differently. On Apple podcasts, touch the three dots and then the Share button. On Spotify, I think you can just hit the Share icon, the little rectangle with the arrow, and post it to your social feed or social story. That's how more people learn how to build real wealth like we do here at GRE and even better, Don't hoard the good stuff. If you learn something here, engage in the nicest kind of wealth redistribution. Tap the Share button right now and text this episode to one friend who'd appreciate it. Until next week, I'm your host, Keith Weinhold, have a happy Thanksgiving, and don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 6  42:29   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively.   Keith Weinhold  42:57   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building get richeducation.com

In this episode, we sit down with Melanie Rembrandt — award-winning author, copywriter, ghostwriter, speaker, and the original direct response publicist. With decades of experience helping entrepreneurs amplify their message, Melanie has become a trusted voice in the worlds of marketing, PR, and business growth.   Her insights have been featured in leading publications such as Harvard Business Review, The Rich Dad Company, and HR Executive, and she's shared the stage with industry legends at Dan Kennedy's No B.S. events and Robert Kiyosaki's Rich Dad seminars.   Tune in to discover how to attract more clients, increase credibility, and grow your business through the power of words and strategic publicity. Whether you're a startup founder or seasoned entrepreneur, Melanie's practical wisdom will help you communicate with confidence and turn your message into measurable results.  

Keith discusses the evolving role of AI in real estate, highlighting its impact on property management and tenant interactions.  He contrasts traditional AI, which excels in IQ tasks but lacks emotional intelligence (EQ), with agentic AI, which can perform autonomous actions. Dana Dunford, CEO of Hemlane, explains how their platform uses AI to streamline repair requests, leasing, and tenant communication. She emphasizes the importance of human oversight for tasks requiring EQ.  Looking ahead, Dana predicts increased standardization and remote-first investing, with technology playing a crucial role in enhancing real estate management efficiency. Resources: Explore Hemlane's property management platform and request a demo at www.hemlane.com  Mention the GRE podcast when signing up with Hemlane to receive a 20% discount on the first year. Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/580 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, what will real estate look like in five years as AI keeps making inroads into our lives, learn how people have begun using it to manage their rental properties and doing it more cost effectively than humans can. It's a forward looking episode today on get rich education.   Speaker 1  0:26   Since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors, and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:11   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:27   Welcome to GRE from Long Island's Hamptons to Hampton Roads, Virginia and across 188 nations worldwide. I'm Keith Weinhold, and you are listening to get rich education way back in the year 2010 when someone said AI, that could only mean one thing they were talking about, Alan Iverson today, it means artificial intelligence, because chatgpt debuted three years ago this month, and gosh, that changed a lot. It changed how you search for answers to everyday questions. We'll get into applying AI to real estate and property management shortly. But more broadly, look, here's what's interesting, the very premise of a chat bot, like just hearing that word, it sounds really cold and impersonal, yet think about it, Google was way less personal. When you Google something a decade ago, say list the three best paints for drywall, you'd get a list of links, and then you had to dig in and synthesize things and often interpolate to find your answer, or maybe you wouldn't even get the right answer. Instead, today, a chatbot on chatgpt or Gemini gives you the answer in nice, friendly sentences. Maybe they'll list some acrylic and latex paint varieties, and then after the answer, they come back and ask you a good follow up question. If you'd like to dig in for a deeper answer, they'll bring up something that you hadn't considered before, perhaps like it'll turn around and ask you if you want them to refine their answer to just the best latexes and acrylics specifically for rentals. And then it will ask, Would you like me to do that for you? And when you see that, you quickly feel like it's more friendly than that old list of links from a Google search. Yeah, that's a friendly Chatbot. And you can start to see what I mean here. It's not so cold and impersonal. Understand that these platforms ask you a friendly follow up question, because they want to keep you on that platform, just like anywhere else, does you already hear less about hallucinations than you used to when it would just cough up these weird errors? I feel like it's giving better answers than it did just a year or two ago. In my experience, one place where you need to be careful is that these platforms are being so nice to you at times they seem a little too agreeable. One way to break that is to tell the AI challenge my thinking, just those three words can give you a more complete answer. Challenge my thinking, as we already know, one danger about AI is everyone is quickly becoming really reliant on it, and this could be especially harmful to kids that haven't developed independent skills yet. Now I heard from a young teacher who quit her job. A lot of kids don't know how to read today. Why would they when they can just hit a button and it reads it out loud for them, between third and fourth grade, that's when children should transition from learning to read over to reading to learn. Kids have aI right in their hand now, not every kid, but increasingly, they aren't writing a full essay by hand with their own thoughts that they conjured up. Of course, chatgpt does that for them. Now it's probably good to teach chatgpt to kids in older grades, that is, if they don't already know it better than the teachers do, but you've increasingly got teens and young adults that say don't know how to write a cover letter for a resume because it's done for them. Now, much of what I've been talking about so far is called generative AI, and all that means is that it creates new content in response to your prompt. Today, we'll also talk about agentic AI in real estate that is spelled like agent and with IC at the end. How agentic AI is different from Oh, the chat GPT or Gemini prompts that I was talking about is that it acts on its own to perform a series of actions to reach a goal. So agentic AI gets kind of autonomous.    Keith Weinhold  6:06   Before we bring in a great guest to talk more about AI and property management. If you're looking for another episode on how to use AI more broadly in your life and broadly in real estate, check out episode 543 of the get rich education podcast that was a great episode from back in March again, that was episode 543 titled How to use AI for real estate.   Keith Weinhold  6:34   Now let's pull back and humanize things a little before we talk about bots. I just caught myself doing something kind of funny. Now, the other day, I used the hand ergometer at the gym. If you don't know what that is, while you're oftentimes standing up, you basically use your hands to crank this device's pedals in much the same way that bicycle pedals move. It exercises your biceps, triceps, forearm muscles. I have never seen anyone use this device at the gym before, not one person, but I wanted to try them, right? It seems like I often want to try something different from everyone else, and it looks just slightly odd to use this hand ergometer machine. Well, that's not the funny part. The next day, I was throwing a football around with a friend, and I couldn't figure out why throwing a spiral was so difficult for me and why my throwing accuracy was dreadful. Later, when I got home, my forearm started feeling sore. Oh, and I realized it was from using that hand ergometer. You know, this is such a typical guy thing to do, I made sure to DM that friend immediately to tell him that my football throws were lousy only because I had used a hand ergometer at the gym the day before. And he basically replied, yeah, your throws were really bad. It's funny that I felt so compelled to DM him like, hey, I really don't want ed thinking that I can't throw a football like that is so important or something. I could have done anything else with that two minutes of my life, but I cannot go about the rest of my day if Ed thinks I've got a bad football spiral like so important, like, my flight to Paris leaves in 30 minutes, but I'll put that whole trip in doubt, because I can't forget to tell ed I can usually throw a spiral on a football better than what he's thinking. Because, admit it, everybody has an ego. Some are just bigger than others. Well, I am bursting at the seams with a lot of broad real estate investing techniques and developments for you, but I'm putting that on hold until after today's show.    Keith Weinhold  8:45   We're talking with the CEO and co founder of property management platform, hemlane. It's spelled H, E, M, L, A, N, E, hemlane. I'll ask her where real estate will be within five years. She's a really intelligent woman and fully aware that your tenants don't want a bot to handle all of their maintenance requests. It's a lot like how you don't want to say representative to an automated phone system. It's hard to be nice when you're trying to clearly articulate it for the third time representative. Let's meet this week's guest.   Keith Weinhold  9:33   This week's guest is the CEO and co founder of hemlane. They're a property management platform with over 28,000 rentals and a billion dollars in payments process, just like we have been since day one here at GRE She is a strong advocate of purchasing properties anywhere. So that's often going to be outside your home state, because if best investments typically aren't right in your backyard, and why would you limit yourself? She supports real estate investors in setting up the most intelligent process to manage rentals from a distance, in case you want to self manage and do that. She's been named one of the top 20 women leaders and influencers in real estate tech. She has a distinguished resume previously working at Apple, and she received her MBA from Harvard Business School. She's an interesting person too. In her free time, she's an avid equestrian, paraglider and skier, so like me, she sort of has this substantial life outside of real estate too. Come on. You need to do that for your sanity. Well, we've been talking for almost a year now, but this is your first time on the show. Hey, welcome. It is the GRE debut of Dana Dunford.   Dana Dunford  10:44   Thanks so much Keith for having me. I'm so excited to be on your show and have been following it for a long time. So huge fan.   Keith Weinhold  10:52   Appreciate that Dunford is spelled D, u n, f, O, R, D, for listeners in the audio only. And this is a rather forward looking episode streamlining how to use AI in real estate and as a property management solution, putting that in your hands so that you could do that yourself. And before we're done, Dana is going to tell us what real estate investing will look like in five years, and if it's a good time to invest now. But first, Dana, I know you're an expert in leading having autonomous agents handle the tenant relations, things like communication and repair orders to a unit and rent collection. But I think a lot of people aren't really sure what an autonomous agent is. They're like, Hmm, is that somewhere between an autonomous car and a Roomba or something? So what is an autonomous agent?   Dana Dunford  11:42   Yeah, so there's two different types of AI, and where we are right now is with traditional AI. There's also agentic AI, where essentially AI will just take over, be proactive, think about things in advance, know exactly how to solve and make decisions. But Keith, to your point, very many out there here, AI, it's very much of a buzzword, and so I love some sort of parallels, just like you had mentioned with like the robot vacuum. I think a really good parallel would be self driving cars, because that's something that's applicable. We can all relate to. You know, you have Tesla, I have one, and it can drive me to and from work at any time, fully on that autonomous but there will be occasionally times in San Francisco where it will require me to take over the wheel because it's too foggy. There's something that goes on that's too complex of a situation. That is where I would say AI is today that traditional, where it's like it can follow exactly a process, but if the process messes up, like there's something in its way, it can't make a decision. It beeps at you and says, take over, whereas if you look at something like Waymo on the self driving car side, that is fully autonomous. There's no one there. There's no one making decisions. But it's very limited on where it can go, what it can do. Now the technology is better, and that's for another conversation, but it's just slower to go to market. And so with traditional AI, and what we're seeing now, it's fast to market. Everyone can use it, but you can't rely on it 100% you can't say it takes the wheel 100% of the time. And I don't have to think about it. And so that is where we are. I think a lot of experts in the space will say 2030, is when we will see this agentic AI. Will see it completely take over, but we're just not there today.    Keith Weinhold  13:47   All right, we're talking about the transition from traditional AI, which is in place today, to agentic AI, perhaps the Advent or popularity of that in five years, when I think about autonomous agent a lot of times, I like to look at etymology. Just what does that specifically mean? So we're talking about for another AI or a bot, if you will, to have autonomy over decision making. And when we think about autonomous agency with property management, how can we think of that application?   Dana Dunford  14:20   Yeah, I think that you need to break it down into what AI does very well right now, and what you could have aI fully take over, and where you might have some problems. And let me back up to if everyone remembers Watson, who beat Jeopardy, this was a while ago. The reason was, was actually because AI is very good at IQ. It can look up a ton of facts, or it can solve a really complex math problem. So anything on like the IQ side, AI is great to solve, but it's EQ that AI. Lacks, yeah, and EQ is me picking up the phone and saying, you know, Keith, I'm so sorry I messed up on, you know, whatever it was for you. If you're my boss, I'm so sorry here. So I'm going to make it right. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so that's where AI is not as good. And so when I think about any kind of system with real estate, you know, putting together your pro forma and looking at the cash flow and all of that, like AI can actually do it well, if you set up these are all the prompts that I would need, or take everything from insurance to interest rates and come up with the pro forma. But where AI will fail is a lot of times on the tenant communication side. And the reason for that is, let's just say, Keith, you have a apartment complex and there is the heat out. Well, if someone has a screaming baby in the background when you pick up the phone, you are going to answer that question, or you're going to talk to that tenant a lot differently if you're human versus if you're AI, you're going to say, oh my gosh, you have a four month old baby. You know, I also have kids. I know exactly what you're going through. And just so you know that HVAC technician is coming out right away, I will be here for you. I'm going to call you in five minutes. And so I always say, especially in real estate, because real estate is a people business, you really need to what, what you're trying to automate, or what you're trying to use, AI into four quadrants, and one axis, the horizontal axis, is IQ. Anything along that access it does well, but the vertical axis is EQ. And so the higher up you go on EQ, where you need relationships, the less likely it is, or my recommendation, would be, put a human in there. And so when we think about AI, it's like, if you're calling someone to confirm an appointment and remind them that, like an electrician is going to be there in an hour, you don't really need a human to do that. That's something that AI can do, and someone's going to have a delightful experience, right? But if it's something that requires that, EQ, that's where you're still going to have to have humans there.   Keith Weinhold  17:11   One thing that I often think about is, some years ago, popular email providers like Gmail, when someone would send you an email message asking you a question, Gmail basically started reading that email for you and giving you three little bubbles to click on the bottom, basically where you can click a yes answer, no answer or a follow up for more information, does that help give some relativity to what We're talking about here in property management and those tenant relations.   Dana Dunford  17:43   Yeah. I mean, I think that the Gmail with like, yes, no or No, thank you, or you get it also on LinkedIn that almost has zero EQ, because it's really just answering a question. It's not saying, Keith, I hope you had a wonderful weekend. You know, on your run, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's not doing any of that. And so I think that is very much of a case of like, it's responding exactly to the email. I do think AI is getting better, where it's having that human touch involved in it when it responds to things. So now in Gmail, where you can have it draft you a response, but at the same time, it's not quite there unless it has enough context. And what I mean by context, and Gmail is such a good example, let's just say Keith today, if you look at Gmail and it's responding to an email, it is literally only responding based on the context it has in that email, right? But let's just say Keith, that you could increase context. So I gave you two axes, like EQ and IQ, high and low on both. Imagine if I could add a third axis on there, so it's almost like 3d and it's context. Now imagine that email you just mentioned came in, and it also could look at my messages, Keith with you on, let's just say Facebook, it also could look at the last shows that you had out there. It also just looked online at things, and maybe it could look at other, you know, information that you might have posted on LinkedIn. And maybe you posted on LinkedIn about your run this weekend. Now I can respond with a lot more context. Hey, Keith, saw on LinkedIn. You had this that is actually adding EQ to it, where it's making it much more personalized. And I think that is where the future of technology is going, and that's why data is such a big play here, because the more context you have, the better you are. And you know, we see that personally as a tech company, we wanted to control more of the data. We don't want to have a ton of APIs with other companies running maybe self guided tours for us, or running the maintenance coordination, because we need that all in our system. Because if we don't have access to the lease agreement to know specifically, do they have an occupant under one years old in the place it makes it. Lot more difficult for us to respond in a very eloquent way and help solve that EQ problem that a lot of AI has today.   Keith Weinhold  20:09   Talk to us more about how today autonomous agents are helping with property management, whether that's handling tenant requests for repair issues or helping virtual showing. So tell us more about how it's really helping investors today, and then what to watch out for.   Dana Dunford  20:27   Yeah, definitely. So the autonomous agents, or at least the AI agents, that we have always draft things up. Well we use them for like, some of the best places to use them are things like troubleshooting repair requests. Okay, 7% of repair requests that come into our system. And I'm sure with any of your guys' portfolios, you'll see the same thing, 7% we can get the tenant to solve without liability. However, we have to train the AI, so we have to say, Listen, we can have zero liability with this. So if the ceiling is over 10 feet tall, do not put a tenant on a ladder and tell them to change a light bulb. You need to know exactly like you know when a tenant says, My light bulbs out and it checks out. They moved in a year ago. That's their responsibility. Like you are not going to put them on a ladder unless you have more of that context. And so on the troubleshooting side, that is a great way where AI can respond and fully come up with here's a summary of everything we've done. And here, this request was either closed or actually, we need to pass this over to human that is a great way to use AI. You just need to make sure the data you're using is right and it's trained in the right way. Because if you don't have all of those additional specific, intricate type of examples that I mentioned for residential property management, you can get in a lot of trouble this same for an autonomous agent would be on the leasing side. It's very easy to do it early on when you get the tenant inquiries coming in, because now what you're trying to do is just qualify them. Is this person qualified for a tour, and if they are, what time do they want to see the property? Right? And how do I get them in as quickly as possible? With that, though, you have to train it. So, for example, I live in California. I live in San Francisco. You can't just say the credit score requirement is 650 because if the person is on Section eight, which you are required to accept in California, you have to give an alternative to credit in order to let them qualify. And so that's where these models to get, these autonomous AI agents. It becomes really important to be a subject matter expert in the space and be able to run this and have it train and know exactly what it should be saying in those cases. Now, Keith, I always say kind of as a rule of thumb, the farther down you get on something, the more challenging it is for it to be fully autonomous. And that's where you need a human involved. So for example, for us, once you're talking to service professional and communicating between them and a tenant, you very much need a human to be there to help with that. And same thing on the leasing side, there is no way, actually, if you know anyone, Keith, I would love to talk to them, but there is no way a tenant is going to go ahead and talk to an AI agent all the way to signing a lease and handing over the keys, especially if you're doing something like self guided tours, they're going to want someone on the phone talking to them. Hey, I'm here for you again. That EQ those quadrants I mentioned, really bringing that into play. So I found a lot of things with property management. At the beginning, you can use AI, but there's a certain point where you get to something where you say, I actually need a human to be calling or messaging, because you need that additional touch.   Keith Weinhold  23:47   That makes sense. This is not buying a weed eater. This is actually a rather intimate transaction. We're talking about where you and your family are going to live and thrive and eat and sleep every day we're talking with hemlane, CEO and co founder, Dana Dunford, about applying AI in real estate and property management more when we come back with Dana, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold   Keith Weinhold  24:12   you know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program, why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There is real world security backed by needs based real estate, like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program. When you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get. Money working as hard as you do, get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly again. 1-937-795-8989   Keith Weinhold  25:23   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   Dolf Deroos  25:56   this is the king of commercial real estate, Dolf de Roos. Listen to get rich education with Keith Weinhold and Don't Quit your Daydream.   Keith Weinhold  26:13   Welcome back to get rich education. We're talking with Dana Dunford in a rather forward looking episode, applying AI to real estate investing and property management and Dana, I think I would wonder about if AI has much reasoning ability, as far as, why don't we say prioritization with a tenant repair request? If a tenant has a repair request because their kitchen cabinet doors are squeaky, that's probably something that needs to be handled differently and is going to be lower on the priority chain than if a sink just flooded all over the bathroom floor, and it's going to ruin the subfloor in a few hours if it's not addressed. So where are we at with AI's reasoning ability there?   Dana Dunford  26:57   It's actually pretty good at prioritization, so it can tell our team where things are from a priority list, however, where we found that we've had to train it more, and this is us putting logic into it from a large language model, is it hasn't picked up certain things. And let me give you an example. Keith, my toilets not working, right? Okay, well, the biggest question to ask is, how many toilets do you have in the house? How many are in the property? Because if there is one, that is definitely an emergency, if there are two, not so much of an emergency. And so that's where there's additional contacts that comes in, go search under the marketing description, how many toilets are in this house, right? And then confirm with the tenant the other one is still functioning. And so there's certain things like that that we've found we've had to personally train to get it to respond in the right way. But overall, like generally, it's pretty good at helping to de escalate things, turning off valves saying, hey, mop up. You would be surprised how many tenants don't just like mop up the water on the floor. They're like, Oh, I wanted to keep it so you could see what it looked like. It's like, no, no, no, you need to mop it up. And by the way, we need fans in there. And there's a point where you just get a remediation specialist there. It's one of the most expensive trades, because usually insurance is called if you're calling a remediation group, but really understanding the extent of it and stuff like that, AI is actually pretty good at that. And the reason why is that is an IQ thing, where it's something easily searchable on the internet that is applicable to all homes, right? And so it's much easier for them to be able to do the prioritization of repairs.   Keith Weinhold  28:39   Okay? So an investor can basically buy or leverage the hemlane software and tell me, is there an AI integration with it? And like, how does that interface actually look and how much does the investor need to use it? What's already built in? Tell us more there.   Dana Dunford  28:58   Yeah. So we have a repair coordination. So when we build features, we build features to solve problems, not to like call it a feature, right? And so there's one feature we have called repair coordination, and that is to end to end, coordinate your repair all the way from troubleshooting to confirming work is completed and paying the service professional on your behalf. How we get that done. We don't think the owner really cares, as long as it's a five star experience for them and a five star experience for the tenant. And so what we've done in our approach has been, you always have humans that you start with, and these are people who are trained specifically in all of these things we've been talking about. Then what you do is you add AI in, and it's not quite yet a co pilot, a co pilot, is actually helping, like, make those decisions, but it's making the humans faster. And then the humans can come back to us, our repair coordinators, and say, Hey, listen, this is where the AI fails a bit. This is where I had to replace something in the AI before I clicked send. And. That is a really good way to do it, because I've seen out there, and I'm even though I'm in Silicon Valley, I'm in San Francisco, like aI Mecca, I'm probably more conservative on using it in part because of tenant landlord law and just what can go wrong. And so for me personally, it's like, I see sometimes out there where people's like, use our AI repair coordinator and it's fully AI. And it's like, yeah, but we've seen cases where the AI fails, just like I mentioned, where my car asks me to take over the wheel and and that's where I think that we're just not quite there yet, and we need to give it more time, you need to make sure you're using the right technology for it, but that's where I feel like it's almost more like an assistant to me versus an actual replacement or a co pilot yet, but it will soon get there.   Keith Weinhold  30:55   Well, a lot of times the producer or I guess, landlord, in this case, they want to use AI, but consumers don't really want to consume AI content. You can imagine, if a tenant had a problem, they don't want to feel like an AI was used all the way through the process and was never involved. So tell us more about that. I mean, how do the tenants take it?   Dana Dunford  31:17   Keith, I love that question so much. Because one I think sometimes technology companies are not transparent of what is AI and what is not AI. Yeah, I think the first thing you need to do is be transparent that it's aI talking to you. If you don't do that, you've suddenly lost trust, right? Sometimes they'll brand it as a person, but it's really not. So that's the first thing I would say. The second thing I would say is, if the AI solves what they need, we have found in a very delightful way. We have found that they don't care if it's AI, if they're chatting and it's so fast and the answer is their question, then they don't care that it's aI doing it, or human they just care about, what is my problem, and how do I get that solved? Right as quickly as possible. I think if AI was slow, they would care, like, they're like, Oh, it's a slow support agent, because they're too cheap to, like, invest in support. But no, they actually get their questions resolved. We have occasionally had tenants who have said, Hey, this didn't help me. You know, connect me with an agent, and then we connect them right away with an agent. But what's interesting in those cases is the AI actually had the right answer, so it gave them exactly the answer. But the person was like, I just don't want to talk to AI. Then the question is, how do you actually change it to make them want to talk to AI? And a lot of it has to do with that. EQ, how do you add it to make it such a delightful experience for them, where you're adding so much more in? And how you say, like, Does that help answer your question? I'm happy to like say it in a different way, if that is helpful. So I think a lot of times when someone says, oh, the AI answers that, but people just want to talk to human. It's really more that the AI didn't answer it how they wanted it to be answered, or it asked too many obnoxious questions, where the person's like, just let me talk to human. You're asking me the wrong questions. This is not applicable, and that's really where you need to have a better level of where your technology should be when you're responding to someone   Keith Weinhold  33:20   just quickly. Dana, how is it integrated with dispatch, with that sink flooded all over the floor? Example, would the AI know to contact a plumber versus just a handyman that works at a lower rate? So how does it work with dispatching?   Dana Dunford  33:35   They would before anything is dispatched, because it's another human involved. We do have, at this moment, we still have humans involved checking it, but it would know because of a couple of things we have. One is preferred service professionals. So who do you want to go out? First, second, third, fourth. Then of those service professionals, what do they do? Is it just septic, you know? Do they do full plumbing, whatever it may be, and then also, what that person's hours are like, if it's a weekend and it's an emergency and someone doesn't work weekends, you're not going to call that service professional. You're going to call the next one in line who is available. So all of that is built into it, but we still always have humans look it over to say, is that the right category? Are they dispatching the right service professional? All of that, eventually that can just take over with AI doing it. But at this moment, we still put humans involved, because most services have a service call, and we need a person to say, Yes, I made that decision to send that person out, just because, you know, could be $89 and for everything service calls add up, so we want humans to make that better for you?   Keith Weinhold  34:40   Yeah. All right, so we still have a good level of human involvement. Well, Dana, before I ask how our listeners can learn more about hemlane, what does investing in real estate look like in five years? Since you are rather forward looking there   Dana Dunford  34:56   yeah, So I think there's a couple of things right now. Keith, we had spoke. And right before this show started about how challenging it is. It's a slow real estate market. Yeah, it is. I still think people will regret if they don't purchase now versus in five years. You know, I still think you should be looking for those great deals where someone has to sell and the price doesn't matter as much and you don't have as much competition. So when you look five years out, it has to become easier to invest and manage Real Estate. Today, to me, it's still a broken process. It's still so challenging to get anything done, it's still so manual to get everything done, and it's also you're dealing with people, and people get exhausted by that, like the drama and stuff like that. So I think in five years, you'll have less of that, there will be much more standardization. And an example I would give is, like, with the taxi industry and Uber Right? Like, a very consistent quality, you know what you're going to get, you're going to get from point A to point B. We need the same thing for real estate, with what you're investing in? How that happens? There's a lot of great technology companies out there doing things exciting. Things are like fractional ownership and tokenization. I think that is something that online, being a little bit more passive is going to be a lot easier. I think remote first investing is going to be the way to go, people are going to feel so much more comfortable investing not in their backyard, which I know Keith, you and I are huge proponents of. And then I also just think that in the case of how many people are going to be focused on who's their tech partner versus just who's their local partner? I think that is going to be another thing, because of all of this we mentioned with AI and those who are using more technology, even just to source the deals. I'm not talking about management. I'm talking about straight from the start, or how you finance it. Anyone who is using more technology and better technology is definitely going to win in this space.   Keith Weinhold  37:02   Yeah, investing out of state continues to grow in popularity, and platforms like hemlane, with the right AI integrations can help reduce that friction in still a pretty high friction industry over the next five years. Well, Dana, I think you really going to get the wheels turning for a lot of listeners here, if they want to learn more about hemlane, what's the best way for them to do that?   Dana Dunford  37:26   Yeah, you can go to www.hemlane.com We've everything from free packages to manage your properties to much more full service, comprehensive with that repair coordination we spoke about just please do mention this interview slash podcast, specifically Keith and GRE and you will get 20% off your first year there. So please do make sure to mention it.   Keith Weinhold  37:50   Oh, thank you for doing that for our listeners. Dana Dunford, it's been valuable as I knew it would be. Thanks so much for coming onto the show.   Dana Dunford  37:57   Great. Thanks so much for having me.   Keith Weinhold  38:02   You Brenda, how much does it cost for an investor to use hemlane? Well, there's a free software package where you don't have to leave a credit card or anything like Dana mentioned. Their website will show you that monthly. There are a few packages and fee schedules, but they all have 14 day free trials too. Now, if you use a professional manager, it's less likely that hemlane can help you. If you self manage, you can book a free demo right there from the top of their homepage. It's really easy to find. They can help you with tenant screening, background and credit checks, listing, syndication, online rent collection, tracking rent payments, late fees, and they've got dashboards for lease and tenant status, also everything to do with streamlining maintenance requests, work orders and some of the logistics of your repair coordination, H, E, M, L, A, N, E, hemlane.com, you might like the demo. You can mention GRE for 20% off your first year. That is kind of Dana to do that for us until next week, when I'll be back to help you build your wealth. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 2  39:20   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively   Speaker 3  39:40   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get richeducation.com Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Register here to attend the live virtual event "How to Scale Your Portfolio, with Tenanted Cash Flowing, New Construction Properties" on Thursday, November 13th at 8pm Eastern. Keith discusses Billie Eilish's views on billionaires and contrasts her stance with Grant Cardone's, emphasizing the value billionaires bring.  Hear about the Fed's decision to end Quantitative Tightening (QT), predicting lower interest rates.  GRE Investment Coach, Naresh Vissa, joins the conversation to highlight the benefits of new build properties, such as lower maintenance and higher tenant quality, and mentions a 10% cashback incentive from builders.  Resources: Register for the event at GREwebinars.com Episode Page: GetRichEducation.com/579 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— GREletter.com or text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript:   Keith Weinhold  0:00   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, should billionaires even exist? Why do so many people think that interest rates of all types are headed even lower than as a real estate investor, how to identify and capitalize on an opportunity in this era? It's something that I've never seen before. Today on get rich education   Speaker 1  0:27   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:13   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:29   Welcome to GRE from flatiron, Manhattan to Flatbush, Brooklyn, across New York City and 188 world nations. This is Get Rich Education. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, it's the longest federal government shutdown in US history. This whole thing has now lasted longer than most gym memberships. I guess the GDP stands for government doesn't produce, hmm. Before we get into our core investing and real estate content today, Billie Eilish, the singer, recently made some public remarks on whether or not billionaires should even exist. Yeah. Now if you're not familiar with her, Billie Eilish is known for her kind of unique style, sort of these baggy clothes, neon hair, avant garde fashion, and she has a reputation for being outspoken about a lot of things like mental health and body image and environmental issues. Now, in general, I respect people for speaking their mind, whether I agree or not, because a lot of people are just afraid to do that. Let's listen in to this short clip on what she said. You might have heard this because it was pretty widely broadcasted. Eilish spoke after receiving recognition at the Wall Street Journal innovator awards. This is courtesy of the AP. And then I'll come back to comment.   Speaker 2  2:58   We're in a time right now where the world is really, bad and really dark, and people need empathy and help more than kind of ever, especially in our country. And I'd say if you have money, it would be great to use it for good things and maybe give it to some people that need it and love you all, but there's a few people in here that have a lot more money than me, and if you're a billionaire, why are you a billionaire? No hate, but yeah, give your money away. Shorties. Love you guys. Thank you so much.   Speaker 3  3:40   First of all, without explicitly saying it, she's basically referencing how inflation widened the canyon between the haves and the have nots and GRE listeners that have acted have been on the right side of that canyon. I actually want to give Billie Eilish some credit here. Giving is virtuous. That is a good thing. In fact, next month, I plan to discuss the pros and cons of giving here on the show as we approach Christmas. Billie Eilish, she's certainly not a hypocrite either, because she's given away more than $10 million of her estimated $50 million dollar net worth. She's into feeding people and climate initiatives that right there is giving away more than 20% of your net worth, and that is really kind. Now, you heard her say there's a few people in here that have a lot more money than me, and she's right. Mark Zuckerberg was in that room. His net worth of over 200 billion means that his net worth is more than 4000 times greater than Billy eilish's. It sounds loosely like she's. shaming him for not giving away more of his wealth. And I don't know just offhand how much Zuck gives away, but this is where my credit to Billy Eilish stops. I think that it's okay for a person to be a billionaire. I wouldn't question that. I mean, a lot of times it meant that that person was willing to take risks that others would not dare try. A billionaire probably means you're a person of great value, and that you've hired hundreds or 1000s of other people, creating jobs for them. A billionaire has almost certainly created a product that society values. Jeff Bezos pioneered one day delivery. Zuckerberg connects people through his meta platforms. And now I'm not going to say that either one of those billionaires are perfect people. They are flawed, just like you and I. Billionaires probably pay more tax than the average person as well. That supports the infrastructure that you and I and everybody use, like building bridges or creating a fiber optic network. I would expect that a billionaire would be a giver as well. And see, if you're a billionaire, you have more ability to give than the average person does, you can make a greater impact. And see, this is where things really break down and not make sense. So if Billie Eilish is net worth is 50 million, Oh, apparently that's just okay. That's fine with her. But once it gets to 20 times greater than that, which is 1 billion, then it's not okay. So that means the line is drawn somewhere in there. That makes zero sense to me. The ceiling on what you're supposed to have in net worth is between 50 million and 1 billion. Like, I really do not get the logic on that one. And you know, a guest that we've had on the show here, Grant Cardone, whether you like him or not, he has had some on point remarks about these Billy Eilish comments himself to the question that she posited, which is, if you're a billionaire, why are you a billionaire? Cardone's answer is, if you're a pop star, why are you a pop star? Billy said, give your money away. Cardone's response to her is, give your music away. That's some food for thought there. That's my take on the Billy Eilish remarks on whether or not billionaires should exist. And if you want to hear Grant Cardone and I's conversation here on GRE, that was episode 264 the title of it is Keith Weinhold and Grant Cardone 10x your wealth number 264, a lot of listeners like that episode saying something like it was a dream to hear grant and I together for the first time. Like that, their favorite sales trainer on their favorite real estate show. You can listen by either scrolling way back to get rich education episode 264 in your podcatcher, or you can listen directly by going to get rich education.com/ 264,    Keith Weinhold  8:11   now the Fed has said that they are going to slow or end Qt, next month. All right, when Jerome Powell says something like this, what does that really mean to you as an investor? What can you expect ending QT? Well, you probably already know that QE quantitative easing that has the effect of creating dollars. Qt is the opposite. It has the effect of destroying dollars. So if they're ending Qt, this helps keep more dollars around in the future. So ending Qt then, like we expect soon, that really parallels a lower interest rate environment, because see lower rates already make dollars flow more freely. You probably remember the analogy that I introduced to you on the show earlier this year about how lower rates are like lowering the height of a dam wall. It makes it easier for water to flow, so then lowering rates makes it easier for money to flow, and that's because low savings account rates make people get money out of those vehicles. Okay, that's that low dam wall and low borrowing rates make that money flow as well. People will unlock dollars if rates are low, late last year, the Fed dropped rates a full 1% then they didn't make any moves for a while, until late this year, they've now dropped rates another half a percent. That's the environment that we're in. So then more QE and less QT. That further eases the flow of dollars, and it correlates with even lower rates that are coming in the future. Now it doesn't mean that they will. I'm not saying that they certainly will. There is just that tendency, that correlation. So we had pandemic era QE there about five years ago, that ended as we moved to Qt in 2022 and now what we're doing is unwinding Qt, moving back toward more flow, and it surely gets more technical than that. Ending Qt allows the Fed to expand its balance sheet again. Treasuries and mortgage backed securities, once matured, can now be replaced, and that injects liquidity into the system once again, and that is where we're going. Bank reserves are reaching ample levels again, and there is no need to put liquidity stress on money markets. A lot of these moves are here. What they're here for is to help ease the concerning labor market. It's been almost exactly three years now since chatgpt launched, and a while back, I mentioned how companies were newly interested in hiring the shiny new job that didn't exist before the AI prompt engineer that was one of the hottest jobs. Well, yeah, that was true back in 2023 but not so much. Now. A lot of companies have figured out that the employees that wanted to keep their job, well, they figured out real quick how to be the Ask AI, good questions guy, and we are seeing more layoffs later today, my guest and I will talk about that, and also he's going to make somewhat of a future mortgage rate forecast, or at least talk about the direction that they're going in. I think you're really going to like that. I don't predict rates myself, but sometimes a guest will. That's what's happening today. My point here is that with Qt ending, which again lowers the damn wall height and eases the flow of money, that parallels the fact that we have lower interest rates now than what we had one year ago, and we have lower interest rates now than what we had two years ago. As well, be mindful that you cannot get it all as a real estate investor. You cannot get soaring employment and low interest rates together. You cannot get those two things together, at least not for long. High employment means high rates. Low employment means low rates. Today's guest, and I will get into that as well.    Keith Weinhold  12:43   Well as we've had lower rates, hence a lower wall height, don't buy property and expect that you'll be able to refi into a lower rate within a year. If it happens, great. Don't buy expecting rents to go up or rates to go down, although many think that will happen. Just enjoy it. If it does, rent vesting has been on the rise lately. Yes, rent vesting. What that means is when you pay rent in the property where you live, and then the only properties that you own are rental properties. Rent vesting makes sense if you live in California, New York City and Boston, since rent to price ratios are so low there, and then you invest your dollars inland, that's how you can live in a high cost place and yet still benefit from cheap rental property and have income streams from them. You might remember that some months ago, I interviewed two listener guests on the show, everyday listeners, just like you, and California based investor and GRE listener, Joshua Fang, told us about his rent vesting. He pays rent in his primary residence, since the rent to price ratio might be three tenths of 1% there and then he owns property in GRE marketplace markets, I think it was Memphis and elsewhere where you're benefiting from, say, eight tenths of 1% that is called rent, vesting, investing in properties that make sense that you buy through GRE marketplace. And remember when Josh told us that passive income gives him time to enjoy life and even stop and watch two lizards for 15 minutes? Oh, what passive income can do. It's the quirky things that you remember. See. The point is that smart people in high cost states are rent vesting, if that's what you've got to do in order to own real assets. Then do it get on the right side, as this difference between the haves and the have nots just keeps expanding. I just did something that you might find interesting over the weekend for the first time in years. I visited that first fourplex building that I ever owned, which is also the first piece of real estate that I ever owned, that blue colored fourplex, and it is still blue. The address of that property is 925 east, 45th court, and it's in Midtown Anchorage. It has never been a pretty neighborhood, and I confirmed that it still is not. It looks a touch worse than when I owned it. I straightened up the curb appeal more than today's owner does. I bought the four Plex over 20 years ago for $295,000 and at that time, on the day that I bought. The total rents were $2,900 because it was 725 per door. I just looked on Zillow. And do you want to guess at its zestimated value today? Yes, it cost 295k back in 2002 and today, the Zestimate is 625k I don't know what today's rents are. My guess is that they're just short of $6,000 for all four units combined, two bed, one bath, 960 square foot units, really plain vanilla, boring looking housing, but it's certainly not like a crime ridden slum. It's just that depressing looking block that's just chock full of disorder and these other four Plex buildings and dumpsters all over the place. But yeah, that's how it all began for me. I visited that building again, and I haven't owned it in a while. I 1031 exchange out of it and into an eight Plex in 2013 if it weren't for that building, you would not be listening to me right now, and you would not have heard of me, because this show wouldn't exist big thanks to the three and a half percent down FHA loan for someone that came from humble means, like me.    Keith Weinhold  17:03   Last month, I did a running race that goes up a ski jump that was pretty cool. It gets so steep that you have to grab onto a cargo net to pull yourself up. It's almost like a rope ladder. I did not win. I got fifth out of 21 competitors in that race. Hey, I like to get out and physically challenge myself. After talking real estate all day, my body weight is up a little. It's currently sitting at 178 pounds. That's 81 kilograms for our European listeners, and it hit its recent bottom of 172 back on the Fourth of July. That's by design. I need to be really leaned out for a big Independence Day race every summer. You know, I'm one of those guys where I still cannot compete with bodybuilders because I'm too lean, and yet I don't win running races because I'm too bulky, so I'm more of an all around guy. I do about seven different sports, and that's exactly how I win nothing and always get like, fifth place or worse. This major mammal has got to keep himself moving, In any case.   Keith Weinhold  18:17   next week here on the show, we'll talk to a Harvard grad. She's super interesting. She used to work at Apple, and then she founded an AI centric property management company so that you can use her platform to self manage and leverage AI. But are we at the point where your tenant would really talk to a chatbot? Would that fly? And if society is there, well then do property management fees and everything start trending towards zero. I'm going to ask her about that. That's next week. As for today, you know, the world series ended about a week ago, and what I did is that I watched 10 commercials during the World Series, and then I jotted down the name of each sponsor, and here's who the World Series advertisers were just in this one segment where I paid attention to them. They're all big brands that you've heard of atnt Liberty, mutual nature made brand items like vitamins and supplements, Starbucks, Coors, light, Qdoba, Capital One, Home Depot, crest, white strips and Jim Beam, all right, those were the 10. What do those 10 have in common? More or less, any ideas there those 10 products and companies are all for consumer products. That's the common link. And that might seem so obvious that you wouldn't even think of it. Well, this is because most ads are for consumer products. Those ads fuel consumerism. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. That. Represents an economy. In fact, I use some of those very companies in my personal life.    Keith Weinhold  20:04   But here's the difference here at GRE our sponsors help you produce, not consume. Think about that as you listen to me in this spot for freedom, family investments and then Ridge lending group, then I'm coming back for more with a terrific guest.    Keith Weinhold  20:23   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why? Fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1-937-795-8989, yep, text their freedom coach, directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  21:34   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group and MLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President chailey Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridge lending group.com that's Ridge lending group.com   John Lee Dumas  22:08   this is Entrepreneur on fires, John Lee, Dumas, don't follow Money. Make money. Follow you with get rich. Education.   Keith Weinhold  22:22   So we have a familiar voice back on the show. It's an in house discussion here with our own GRE investment coach. And like I've told you before, he's got both the formal education with his MBA and the self education, because he's an active real estate investor for four years now, he has helped you completely free, usually over the phone, sometimes on Zoom. He learns your own personal goals and then helps you find the market that's right for you in fitting those goals. And I've had listeners like you tell me that, you know, I can't believe that getting his actionable insight is free, and now he can help you best, though, if you're ready to own more income property, he even helps connect you with the exact property address, like say, 321, raspberry Street in Huntsville, Alabama. So it's great to welcome back to the show and provide the listener with a respite from my mouth breathing rhetoric and discourse, it is GRE investment coach. Naresh Vissa,   Naresh Vissa  23:24   thanks a lot, Keith. I can't believe it's been four years. It's been four amazing years, and congratulations to you and to GRE for being around so long and together, we have grown our listenership, and we appreciate all of you listeners, listening out there, for sure,   Keith Weinhold  23:42   real estate activity has slowed down overall, but things are still really vibrant. Here at GRE we see more activity than we saw last year, and when we talk about increasing activity, Naresh, the Fed, looks to do that when they reduce interest rates, that incentivizes businesses to borrow, that incentivizes consumers to spend, because, for example, they're not getting as high of a yield and their savings account. So now we're here in this fed cutting cycle. Tell us what that means from your perspective.   Naresh Vissa  24:15   We talked about this a few months ago when I was on the podcast at the Federal Reserve. I predicted that the Federal Reserve would begin a rate cutting cycle, and that this cycle would be extensive. It would not be an overnight, 100 basis point cut, or anything like that we saw in March. So that rate cutting cycle has begun, and they continue to cut. And we did an entire episode on President Trump and the name calling with Federal Reserve Chair Jerome Powell, whose term ends in the middle of next year. It's May of next year, when he's leaving. And with all that pressure, I predicted that the Fed would begin its rate cutting cycle. We are in the. Cutting cycle right now. They did a few cuts last year and stopped, which I thought were mistakes. But with that being said, we are in the thick of this cutting cycle. We are going to see more cuts moving forward. And what that means you're already seeing it. As a real estate investor, you are seeing, I don't want to say low interest rates, but lower interest rates compared to where we were a year ago, compared to where we were certainly 234, years Well, maybe not four years ago, but three years ago, we are seeing far lower interest rates, and we will continue to see interest rates, in the sense of mortgage rates, plummet as a result of this. So enjoy the low rates while they last, because they're not going to last forever. Nothing lasts forever, but the Federal Reserve, you throw in the government shutdown, I think it makes sense that the Federal Reserve continues to cut, because there's no telling where inflation is going to go. The experts thought that inflation would go up, up, up, up and be a significant problem. They've been saying that since the election winner last year or the election night last year, we haven't necessarily seen that. We have seen inflation somewhat go up, but we haven't seen that runaway inflation that many of the experts predicted as a result of the tariffs, as a result of the rate cutting, I think it definitely helps that number one, Doge, cut several government programs and cut a lot of government spending, not as much as they thought they would, but they cut enough to where they're limiting the amount of federal government spending. We've also seen mass layoffs, mass layoffs in the public sector, which has seeped into the private sector as well, because many of these private companies, like an Accenture, for example, many of these tech companies that were getting subsidies from the government, that funding has stopped, and that has led to layoffs. Now, what layoffs do is layoffs create, I don't want to say deflation, but layoffs are disinflationary, right? And we've seen significant layoffs, like I said, since February of earlier this year, when Doge was in the thick this government shutdown has led to mass layoffs as well. So we've seen 10s of 1000s of people well, we've seen hundreds of 1000s of people furloughed, if not at least a million people furloughed now, they will end up getting their pay, but we've seen 10s of 1000s of people laid off as a result of this government shutdown. And what that means is, again, this is very disinflationary. That's less money that the government is spending moving forward, not just right now, but moving forward. So there's a savings there that's also more people who are probably going to hold on to their cash as tightly as possible as they find new work. So this is, once again, disinflationary. And what does all this mean? All of this, to me, seems disinflationary. It goes against the narrative that when you cut interest rates, inflation goes up. It goes against a narrative that when you implement tariffs, inflation goes up, and that's why we haven't seen the runaway inflation that many so called experts were predicting. I think moving forward, the Fed continues to cut because of the weakness, at least when it comes to the job situation, because of the weakness with jobs, and because of unemployment, it's gone up somewhat. I think the Fed ends up continuing their rate cutting cycle through the end of Powell's term, and it could be just a series of 25 basis points every time they meet. Maybe if things get if there's something that they don't like, they up it to 50 basis points at one of the meetings. But the bottom line is, I think they're just going to keep cutting until Powell is gone, and then Trump will put in his guy into the Fed chair. And by that point, we may have cut enough to where there's not much left to cut yet, and that's when we're going to see there's a chance that could happen, or there's a chance the next guy will pick up where Powell left off and and do series of cuts as well. But what that means is that mortgage rates, we can expect, that's one of the most common questions I get from GRE followers, yeah, it's where do you see mortgage rates going? Because these people, they're not a lot of our followers, they're not following the intricacies of the market. Most of our followers have full time jobs as doctors or dentists or engineers or IT workers, and they're not following the ins and outs. And so the most common question that I get is, where are interest rates going? And I've been pretty spot on for the past few years, minus a few mistakes that I thought the Fed made. But I'm very confident when I say, just like I said when I came on earlier this year, that interest rates are on their way down there, and they are not on their way up.   Keith Weinhold  29:51   Just wait until this administration gets their guy in as the Fed chair. It almost feels like we're going to see a Javier Malay Argentina. President, you know, coming in with the chainsaw, they want to cut rates so aggressively, this administration, and Jerome Powell has sort of been a buffer against that, and Naresh has been using the term disinflation. I don't want you, the listener, to confuse that with deflation. Deflation means an increase in the purchasing power of your dollar, something that we rarely see. Disinflation means a slowing in price increases, meaning the rate of inflation goes down. And yes, I think it's been pretty obvious, and I've stated on the show before as well, that the Fed cares more about the employment situation than they do the inflation situation, probably, and you as an investor, you need to be careful what you wish for, because low rates sound really good, and they can be, but high employment typically correlates with high interest rates of all types, and lower employment typically correlates with low rates of all types. Rates get lowered because they know that the economy needs the help so you can't get both. You can't get both high employment and low rates. That condition doesn't persist for very long. And the Naresh during this part of the cycle, it's really been unusual and interesting at how new build properties have such advantages for investors today, including the aberration that the median new build property costs $33,500 less than the median existing property. That data is per the NAR when we think about new build property. Well, wait, first of all, that sounds amazing, and some people are incredulous about that, but there are reasons that the average new build property costs less. A lot of times the size is smaller. A lot of builders are building further from city centers. So I think before an investor gets in and buys a new build property, one really important question for them to ask is, oh, okay, well, how far is that property from an employment center. But otherwise, it's really the right time in the cycle for new build. New build can make your investment more passive. You know, you've got new fixtures, of course, and a warranty, and you're going to have lower insurance costs as well, typically, on a new build property. And Naresh, as you're talking with our followers and investors about new build property. I'm just kind of wondering, do you get more people that want to self manage the property because it's new build, because they figured that their maintenance and repair requests are going to be fewer? Or what do you see in there?   Naresh Vissa  32:35   No, not at all. Because the strength of GRE is that we connect investors, we coach investors so that they can own real estate around the country. They're not owning real estate in their neighborhood or in the area that they live in. We only focus on markets that make sense, generally linear markets, state friendly landlord friendly states, those other markets we are focusing on. So even with new builds we are seeing, I would say 100% of investors saying, hey, I want professional property manager, managing the property that's extremely, extremely common, that is the norm. I will also say, with new builds you brought up earlier, when you introduced me, I own several properties. The last two properties I bought were new construction. Were new builds. Yeah. And I personally comparing the first six properties of rehabs to my last two, which were new builds, I've had far fewer issues with the new builds, not just far fewer issues. I would say overall, the profitability has been greater with the new builds, despite the pro forma initially showing that I would barely Break Even now, I did buy several several years ago before all this appreciation and inflation hit. But it certainly helped a lot to have new builds where the maintenance is far lower and where the quality of the tenant is extremely high. So I generally recommend our investors, if you have the capital available, and generally, just to keep things simple, I say if you have $100,000 in liquid cash ready to go, there's no reason why you shouldn't be buying a new build. Would I waste my time with the rehabs, with the burrs. I mean, those could be profitable too. You should never say no to anything but the new builds. I've slept better at night because of those reasons, because I know at least for the first 10 years that there aren't going to be any major problems and the quality of the tenant is going to be far higher. So I'm a huge fan of new builds, not pre construction. Pre construction means you're buying a plot of land, and then you hope that the builder is going to build a home on top of it. And most of the time, the builder does, but many times, as we saw during the pandemic, there were key. Countless stories around the country of developers selling pre construction and then nothing ever got built. They ended up flipping the land and generating a profit off of it. I don't recommend those at all, but new construction is the way to go. And I'll also add one more tidbit about the previous topic that we talked about, regarding interest rates also remember that lower interest rates mean that the government and their debt they're going to be paying, they can refinance their debt and pay lower interest on their debt when interest rates go down. So that's also going to help reduce the the deficit, and it's going to help reduce the debt as well. So that will help bring inflation down.   Keith Weinhold  35:42   We're talking about buying a property that's already built with new construction, and in a lot of cases, like we'll talk about shortly, it's already tenanted for you as well. So it really reduces the guesswork and the waiting. And of course, new build properties tend to appreciate better than existing properties. So, yeah, tell us more about new build properties, because they tend to be in Florida and Texas that really has an outsized number of them right now. And that's where the builders are really giving incentives when we talk about appreciation, and where we think about appreciation going in the future. You know, appreciation has been really tepid, really boring. Prices have even contracted a little in some Florida and Texas sub markets, but with the long term trend, visual capitalists just shared a terrific map from today to 2050 for example, the Texas population is expected to grow 27% one of the fastest growth states that there is going to be. And a lot of people say, Oh, isn't it going to pass California in population soon? No, not anytime soon. It'll be decades. California is expected to grow 8% over the next 25 years, but Texas is a place where the numbers still can make sense on new build, because you have some overbuilding. So some builders are really incentivized to give you a good deal.   Naresh Vissa  37:06   Well, there are several markets in general. Let's just talk about it. You use an important term, which is appreciation. With new builds, the likelihood of appreciation is greater. This is statistically backed up. You can go check your sources, but the likelihood of appreciation is far greater with new builds compared to older rehabs, a property that's 50 years old, six years old. In fact, those properties probably appreciated early on in their life cycle, and that's just generally how it works. So with new builds, I say look, cash flow is still important. Cash flow is one of the tenets of real estate paying five ways. It's one of the core tenets of get rich education. But you also have that appreciation play with new builds. Again, it's about markets, because if you're buying a new build in, let's say a California or a New York or a New Hampshire, some really anywhere in the northeast, then it is somewhat of a speculative play, depending on the price point, depending on a lot of different other factors. But when you're talking about the markets that we operate in at GRE you brought up two of them, Florida and Texas. There are other markets, like in Tennessee and Oklahoma, where we have new constructions, and they are also positive, cash flowing, high appreciation place. So you just never know what's going to happen. I bought a new construction, for example, just outside of Memphis six years ago. It was just outside of Memphis in Mississippi six years ago, and I bought it for purely cash flow purposes. The pro forma looked good. Property was brand new. It was near several areas where there were many jobs. So I said, Hey, this is a good cash flow play. And I even remember asking my sales agent, hey, what do you think about appreciation? I usually never buy for appreciation, but this is a new construction. What do you think? And he said, You know what? I don't know if this is really going to appreciate that much. I'm not really sure about that. So I said, that's fine. I like the cash flow. Well, fast forward, six years later, as I said, we you just never know what's going to happen. We saw this inflation. We also saw an influx of people migrating into Tennessee, migrating into Mississippi, especially that Mississippi Tennessee border migrating into the Memphis area. Now we have the Trump administration, sent in the National Guard  about about a month ago, sent in the National Guard into the Memphis area, and they haven't left. They're still there, and crime has is at least based on the numbers that crime has really the National Guard has made a big difference on crime, and that's usually the number one deterrent for a market like Memphis. The point that I'm making here is that you just never know what's going to happen with these new construction builds. If you can get positive cash flow, I always tell our listeners. Shouldn't buy a new construction that's negatively cash flowing. You still want to protect yourself. You don't want to be paying money out of your bank account to own a property. Money should be coming in. So you still want to be positive cash flow. And the appreciation is a huge, huge plus, even in areas that you would not think or that you would not expect to appreciate all that much.   Keith Weinhold  40:22   Appreciation just is not as much of a story over on some other platforms, perhaps, or the way that people think about it, because if you pay all cash, appreciation isn't that good for you, but you're leveraged at four to one or five to one with a 20 to 25% down payment, which can really give you those outsized rates of return, which aligns with what we talk about here at GRE Well, we have a live upcoming virtual event. It is this coming Thursday, and before I ask you if you have anything else to tell the audience here as we wrap up, Naresh, it is hosted by you. So it is co hosted by our own in house investment coach Naresh, and our guest that you heard last week here on the show radio veteran Adam. The Event Thursday is called how to scale your portfolio with tenanted cash flowing new construction properties where you can get up to $41,000 cash back after closing, we talk about these builder incentives. So today's real estate market is really giving buyers opportunities for new builds that I haven't seen, maybe ever. Builders are incentivized to move their properties, and we've made headway with builders to get you up to a 10% cash back incentive at closing when you purchase, you can either take the cash at closing or boost your cash flow by buying down your rate, perhaps get some rent credits, so learn how you can take advantage and really prime yourselves for moves today that are going to lead to your success in coming years. And we have tenanted again, tenanted already occupied new build properties in hot markets like Houston, San Antonio, Dallas, Texas, ready for you to purchase with up to that 10% builder incentive so that you can cash flow from day one. And these properties are really in high quality communities, primarily owner occupied, high appreciation, upside, solid rent growth. So learn the strategy, learn the markets and even see available new build income property. The benefit of you attending is that you can have your questions answered in real time by Naresh or Adam. You can sign up for that now at grewebinars.com It is Thursday, November 13, at 8pm Eastern. Any last thoughts as we lead into Thursday, Naresh?   Naresh Vissa  42:45   Gre, webinars.com gre, webinars.com go to that website to register for our free online special event. It will be live. I'm going to be there with Adam. You heard on last week's podcast, we've got some great deals and great incentives, like what you said, Keith, and they're all new constructions. They're all new constructions, mostly in Texas. And these are major markets in Texas too. We're not talking, yeah, many of our followers and listeners, they see a new construction, and they're like, I've never heard of this place in Alabama, or I've never heard of this place in Oklahoma. These are in legitimate suburbs, areas outside of Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, some of them are even in Dallas, Houston, San Antonio proper. So these are markets that everybody is familiar with. It's not some podunk town that you may have seen on our GREmarketplace or GRE spreadsheet in an Arkansas or in Alabama. These are mostly in Texas. The incentives are great, and these are national builders as well. These are not small, no name, Mom and Pop builders. These are national builders who we are working with to offer these special incentives. These are names like you've heard. Many people have heard. Some of them are publicly traded companies like an LGI, that's a very large national builder. That's who we've partnered with to get these deals so grewebinars.com is the link to register for our online special event. GREwebinars.com. I hope to see all of you this Thursday,   Keith Weinhold  44:31   major builders, major markets and major incentives on new build property. You're going to hear more from Naresh on Thursday, it's been great having you back on the show.   Naresh Vissa  44:43   Thanks a lot. Keith   Keith Weinhold  44:50   oh yeah. Naresh does a better job of hosting GRE webinars than I do. In my opinion, you'll remember that I hosted them myself until 2020 23 but you know, maybe I'll come on to a future event for just the first five minutes on one of the upcoming ones, and give an intro before I let the real pros take over. This event is called really just what it is, how to scale your portfolio with tenanted cash flowing new construction properties. It's co hosted by Naresh and Adam, who you met last week. I have never seen this before, where the builder is giving you a fat 10% discount after closing, 10% you can use those 10s of 1000s of dollars to buy your rate down into the fours or other things like use it toward a down payment on another property, pair it with DSCR loans and pay no mortgage insurance on either property. You could buy one property or two properties or 18 properties through the event and DSCR loans. You might remember that means no time consuming income verification, no concerns about your debt to income ratio or W twos or tax returns. We'll show you how to do it all. Like Naresh was saying, we eat our own cooking. We ourselves. Here at GRE are investors too, and we are buying new build for our own personal portfolios. The time is right for this. It wasn't a few years ago, and a few years from now, it probably won't be either. Hundreds are already signed up for it. It is this Thursday, at 8pm Eastern. It's GRE, last event of the year. This is it one last time attend by signing up at grewebinars.com that's grewebinars.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Speaker 4  46:59   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice. Please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively. You   Keith Weinhold  47:27   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, get richeducation.com  

In this high-impact episode of Live Life by Design, Jeff Mendez is joined by Ryan Lee — real estate investor, educator, and co-author of Retire in 10 Years or Less. Together, they challenge traditional financial advice, unpack how to escape the “retirement trap,” and explore what it really means to live life by design. From smart tax strategy to redefining freedom, this conversation is packed with real talk, actionable insights, and powerful perspective shifts for anyone ready to take control of their time, money, and purpose.Timestamps:00:00 Welcome & Life Update01:06 Retire in 10 Years or Less02:14 Real Estate Beginnings03:54 Rich Dad, Poor Dad Takeaways05:15 Savers Are Losers06:00 Debt is Money08:10 The Tax Code & Patriotism11:06 Inflation as a Hidden Tax13:12 Playing the Tax Game Smart17:06 Favorite Chapter of the Book19:06 The 3 Investing No-Nos23:27 Financial Freedom is a Lifestyle26:59 The Day Ryan Quit His Job30:25 Advice for People Feeling Stuck32:00 Life Insurance & Legacy34:00 The 3 Questions That Change Everything38:00 The Ownership Economy40:01 Last Words of Wisdom42:15 Where to Get the Book43:34 What's Next for Ryan Lee44:33 Closing Remarks Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Register here to attend the live virtual event "How to Scale Your Portfolio, with Tenanted Cash Flowing, New Construction Properties" on Thursday, November 13th at 8pm Eastern. Keith introduces a profound life perspective: humans are typically allotted only 30,000 days. What will you do with the days you have left? Every moment not spent building wealth is a moment lost forever. Adam Schroeder, a real estate investment strategist, joins the conversation to talk about current opportunities with new build properties with significant builder incentives and the potential for high appreciation. Resources: Switch to listening to the podcast on the Apple Podcasts or Spotify app, as the dedicated GRE mobile app will be discontinued at the end of the month. Show Notes: GetRichEducation.com/578 For access to properties or free help with a GRE Investment Coach, start here: GREmarketplace.com GRE Free Investment Coaching: GREinvestmentcoach.com Get mortgage loans for investment property: RidgeLendingGroup.com or call 855-74-RIDGE  or e-mail: info@RidgeLendingGroup.com Invest with Freedom Family Investments.  For predictable 10-12% quarterly returns, visit FreedomFamilyInvestments.com/GRE or text  1-937-795-8989 to speak with a freedom coach Will you please leave a review for the show? I'd be grateful. Search "how to leave an Apple Podcasts review"  For advertising inquiries, visit: GetRichEducation.com/ad Best Financial Education: GetRichEducation.com Get our wealth-building newsletter free— text 'GRE' to 66866 Our YouTube Channel: www.youtube.com/c/GetRichEducation Follow us on Instagram: @getricheducation Complete episode transcript: Keith Weinhold  0:01   Keith, welcome to GRE. I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, the real estate market is slow when this happens in a cycle. What does it mean to a real estate investor? What type of return can you really expect today? I'll tell you exactly, and you'll be surprised. Learn more about new build properties and why investors often prefer DSCR loans over conventional loans today on get rich education,   Keith Weinhold  0:28   since 2014 the powerful get rich education podcast has created more passive income for people than nearly any other show in the world. This show teaches you how to earn strong returns from passive real estate investing in the best markets without losing your time being a flipper or landlord. Show Host Keith Weinhold writes for both Forbes and Rich Dad advisors and delivers a new show every week since 2014 there's been millions of listener downloads of 188 world nations. He has a list show guests include top selling personal finance author Robert Kiyosaki. Get rich education can be heard on every podcast platform, plus it has its own dedicated Apple and Android listener phone apps build wealth on the go with the get rich education podcast. Sign up now for the get rich education podcast, or visit get rich education.com   Corey Coates  1:13   You're listening to the show that has created more financial freedom than nearly any show in the world. This is get rich education.   Keith Weinhold  1:29   Welcome to GRE I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, yes, America's favorite shaved mammal on a microphone is back with you for another wealth building week. Just the talking primate that's heavily mortgaged here. I'm also a landlord still waiting for a security deposit from back in 2018   Keith Weinhold  1:51   Hmm, oh, I'm so into self deprecation today that I forgot about the place names hitting you, from Dover, Delaware to   Keith Weinhold  2:01   Andover, Massachusetts and across 188 nations worldwide, you're listening to get rich education. There's a realization that can sharpen your investor focus when you think about the fact that, in a sense, how little time you are allotted in your life. It's something that I've thought about more. You're only given about 30,000 days. That's the typical lifespan of a human being, and that goes for both shaved mammals and others. Well, you've already spent 1000s of your 30,000. The question is, what are you doing with the rest? At some point, people understand or they better that they need to go out on a limb. There are people less qualified than you living the life you want to live simply because they chose to believe in themselves, and really, that's the moment everything shifts. belief. It's not a feeling. It is a decision backed by action. Too many people learn this lesson the hard way. They discover, often too late, that relying on one income stream is the most dangerous financial plan of all. A job can vanish. Federal Workers found that out amidst a government shutdown, a business model can change. AI can intrude. A paycheck can stop. But when you own assets that pay you month after month, no matter what you're doing, you slowly begin to untether yourself and move toward freedom. And here's the truth about pain and money. Poor and middle class households work for money, so to them, that's why every dollar spent feels like a little loss. It can even hurt, and that is why they hesitate even on opportunities that could change everything. The wealthy, on the other hand, own assets that pay them, so therefore every dollar spent feels like a seed, because it grows when you own enough income property, you can move away from constantly asking yourself, can I afford this? And start asking, What will this investment earn me? Over time, this mindset shift changes everything at that time when other people's money starts working for you, not the other way around.    Keith Weinhold  4:45   And here's the thought experiment I use, take the hourglass of your life and flip it, watch the sand fall. That's time, 30,000 hours, 30,000 grains. That is. Is time the one resource that you cannot get more of. So every day you delay prudently investing the sand does not pause. It just keeps flowing. But you can choose how that time compounds the sand that's left over and hasn't fallen through the neck of the hourglass. Yet that is your opportunity to build multiple income streams from real estate, from ownership and from leverage, it is your chance to replace anxiety with well autonomy. Every family with generational wealth can trace it back to one person, one risk taker who decided to stop trading hours for dollars. They believed in ownership and control. They believed in themselves. They acted before the sand ran out. If you've already started real estate investing, well, then you've already begun to break that cycle. If you've done it for a time, you're going to have more time, more income and more options than you had before. That is worth celebrating and scaling, because the best time to start was yesterday, and the next best time is before the next grain of sand hits the bottom.    Keith Weinhold  6:22   Later today, I'll talk about taking this sentiment and moving it towards something very specific and actionable. Now, in this era, the real estate market is slow. That is in terms of transaction volume, there just aren't as many sales. Sometimes this whole thing feels more sluggish than Jabba the Hutt after Thanksgiving dinner.   Keith Weinhold  6:49   5 million is a typical number of existing homes sold every year in the US. 5 million. That's normal. That's baseline during the pandemic frenzy. It reached over 6 million, and now it's about 4 million. That's why I say that housing transaction volume has slowed, and appreciation is only about 2% that's below historic norms, and rent growth is like barely doing push ups. It's two to 3% in single family homes volume now it has picked up a little here lately with lower mortgage rates, and so have home prices. Redfin now tells us that home price appreciation is 3% but most outlets say 2% some analysts that are more optimistic than me call today's housing market healthy. They don't call it slow. And why is that? Well, it's the healthiest it's been since covid, because now you have a good balance of buyers and sellers. The real estate market isn't so miserably deprived of inventory like it was back in 2022 in 2023 but I am going to go with slow now, as you know, I coined the phrase real estate pays five ways back in 2015   Keith Weinhold  8:09   But how exactly does that hold up in today's slow transaction market? Could an income property buyer's return even be disappointing now? Well, let's do it. Let's determine what you can expect if you purchase an investment property here in these slow market conditions, we'll determine your total rate of return in year one. And you know, this will be sort of like dating someone that's not the first date, but to really get to know them, to know if they're potential spouse material. You want to see them at their worst and be sure that they look good on their bad days. So let's just be conservative and use 2% home price appreciation. Say that you buy a 200k single family rental. Now a 20% down payment means 40k down. Sellers are willing to give you concessions now, say that they're going to pay your closing costs, because the 200k that you're paying is their full asking price, so it's your terms and their price. Well, say that you don't get any cash flow. The rent only covers the expenses exactly. Okay, so we're really painting on a not so pretty picture. Here, it would seem. Here we go, in a slow market, the first of five ways you're paid is that erstwhile appreciation. Your property only appreciates 2% from 200k up to 204k not so exciting, until, of course, as we know around here, you realize that your return is your gain on your skin in the game, your 4k gain divided by your 40k down payment gives you a 10% ROI. There it is leverage. Didn't just show up. It brought donuts. 10% just from the first of five ways you're paid. The second way is cash flow. Say that rent minus your 160k mortgage payment here and your operating expenses, that merely breaks even, like I was saying. So 0% additional return from cash flow. And before we add on numbers three, four and five to get your total rate of return in a slow market, let's take a moment to check on Jabba. How's Jabba doing? No, Jabba still hasn't gotten up from that heavy Thanksgiving dinner. It's still a slow market. We've confirmed that we're going to continue   Keith Weinhold  10:41   the third way you're paid, as any GRE listener knows by now, is with that ROA return on amortization, also known as principal pay down with a 7% mortgage rate in your 160k loan on this property, an amortization table shows you 1625 bucks a tenant made principal pay down. Divide that by your 40k down again, that is another 4% return. All right, so you add that to your 10% from leverage depreciation, and you've now got 14%   Keith Weinhold  11:17   next is your tax benefit. It's a 150k structure value, not the full 200k because raw land can't be depreciated. Multiply that by 3.6% depreciation, that means you've tax sheltered 5400 bucks. That is like a phantom loss that you get to show the IRS. Just a little more math here, and this is as far as you have to stretch it, in visualizing numbers in an audio format at a 24% income tax rate. That is 1296 saved on 40k down again, another 3% for you, and your running total is a 17% ROI before we get to the last one, which is inflation profiting, not inflation hedging, which almost everyone mistakenly says in real estate investing, it is inflation profiting.    Keith Weinhold  12:13   Your 160k loan gets eaten by 4800 bucks at a 3% inflation rate, divided by 40k down. And you know, inflation is usually the villain. Now it is the hero. You've got another 12% from inflation profiting. And here's the sum in this slow market, your total year one rate of return is 29%   Keith Weinhold  12:43   and you're like, my gosh, did that really just happen? Now you might want to skip back on some parts of that to help make it crystallize in your mind. I've got to tell you before I ran these numbers in this slow market with this 2% appreciation and even assuming zero cash flow, I thought your total rate of return would be in the low 20s, not this high, not 29%   Keith Weinhold  13:09   the numbers don't lie. They just don't get enough attention on CNBC.   Keith Weinhold  13:16   Now I did use shorthand and simplify. You would also have to adjust your 29% for inflation, just like you do for any investment. So then about a 26% inflation adjusted return for you. Wow. And if you want to know more about what I just used shorthand on, you can always watch the five videos on the five ways real estate pays for free at getricheducation.com/course that's get richeducation.com/course, the most valuable video course you'll ever see on real estate investing, but a huge investor lesson here, an epiphany today, is that it does not take a high growth market to build wealth. Even when it seems like real estate's half asleep, it can still work five jobs for you, we could be near the nadir of the cycle here.    Keith Weinhold  14:16   Appreciation has picked up in recent months, with mortgage rates being lower than they've been in a while, but even when appreciation and rent growth slows now, you can see that the ROA tax benefit and inflation profiting just keep working overtime. The bottom line here is that income property still pays a lofty 29% if you buy today, even in a slow market, and this is at a time when investors, a lot of them, don't know what to do with their money, since every market type seems to be near an all time high, and people don't want to buy in at those high levels, and savings accounts pay you less than a gumball machine, owning investment property proves its resilience. I mean, this is why we do this. It's kind of like stocks can party with a surge in an upcycle, and then they can bust and boom and bust and boom. But all the while, instead of partying, real estate just keeps its head down and works the night shift for you, your wealth quietly compounds in the background while the rest of the world panics or debates interest rates on LinkedIn or something.    Keith Weinhold  15:33   All right. Well, with that in mind, where can we take advantage of that real estate return and expect to do even better with it, even if the market did stay slow. Well, builders have unsold inventory in places like Texas and Florida, like I mentioned before, and to a lesser extent, in parts of the West as well, but the prices are too high out in the west for a cash flow investor. So today, you can buy at a discount in a way that you absolutely could not during the height of the pandemic.    Keith Weinhold  16:06   A guest and I are going to talk about a specific opportunity in today's market, and then how you can exploit it. The National Association of Homebuilders has even noticed that home flippers have switched gears, and increasingly, what flippers are doing is instead buying new build properties and then renting them out, because new builds have lower upkeep costs come with a lower mortgage rate because the builder is buying it down for you, they have lower insurance and they attract a better quality tenant that stays longer, even if the HVAC did break. That's okay, because new build homes often come with a warranty. The smart money knows that new build is where the opportunity is today. That's something that I've discussed for a while here, but today we're getting more actionable. CNBC let us know that the CJ Petra company reports that investors now make up the highest share of Homebuilders in five years. And you'll recall that we've had CJ Patrick, company founder, Rick sharga, on the show a lot with me here the past few years. Some say that the smart money is waking up again. I don't know investor activity is steady, but it's not really that much. It only seems like a lot because the wannabe owner, occupant, buyer has been priced out. So it's better to say that investor activity has been steady. Investors bought fully 1/3 of single family homes this past summer, and that is up from 27% in q1 I'll discuss that more soon.    Keith Weinhold  17:44   Hey, you know one thing that makes GRE different is that our show sponsors are here to supplement and benefit your specific investor activity. And another thing is that I use them myself. Thank God we are not here to tell you about pneumococcal pneumonia or your moderate to severe plaque, psoriasis. I don't even know what that stuff means. Freedom, family investments and Ridge lending group. I very know what they're about. I'm a satisfied client with each of them myself. So listen in.    Keith Weinhold  18:21   You know, most people think they're playing it safe with their liquid money, but they're actually losing savings accounts and bonds don't keep up when true inflation eats six or 7% of your wealth. Every single year, I invest my liquidity with FFI freedom family investments in their flagship program. Why fixed 10 to 12% returns have been predictable and paid quarterly. There's real world security backed by needs based real estate like affordable housing, Senior Living and health care. Ask about the freedom flagship program when you speak to a freedom coach there, and that's just one part of their family of products, they've got workshops, webinars and seminars designed to educate you before you invest. Start with as little as 25k and finally, get your money working as hard as you do. Get started at Freedom, family investments.com/gre, or send a text. Now it's 1937795898, 377958989, yep, text their freedom coach directly. Again, 1-937-795-8989,   Keith Weinhold  19:32   the same place where I get my own mortgage loans is where you can get yours. Ridge lending group NMLS, 42056, they provided our listeners with more loans than anyone because they specialize in income properties. They help you build a long term plan for growing your real estate empire with leverage. Start your prequel and even chat with President Caeli Ridge personally while it's on your mind, start at Ridgelendinggroup.Com, that's Ridge lending group.com   Kathy Fettke  20:05   this is the real wealth network's Kathy betke, and you are listening to the always valuable get rich education with Keith Weinhold.   Keith Weinhold  20:14   I'd like to welcome in a new guest to the show. He is a real estate investment strategist that's been working in the media industry since 2001 and throughout the career, he's held the title of a local news reporter, podcast host and producer for nationally syndicated companies like NPR. He's been in real estate nearly 20 years. Adam Schroeder, welcome to the show.    Adam Schroeder  20:48   Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it.    Keith Weinhold  20:50   Yeah, I'm looking for your read on today's real estate market, just the general landscape overall, because Adam, I've shared that national transaction volume is down about 25% appreciation is still there, although it's been slow. Rents are just steady. We do, however, still have this supply that is down among entry level homes, something a lot of media articles broad brushstroke and don't understand, and really it's still a valid question to ask, even today. Is there any better risk adjusted return than income property that's bought, right? So what are your thoughts on the overall real estate investing landscape?   Adam Schroeder  21:30    Yeah, overall real estate investing, it's kind of like what you said, entry level housing. I remember I saw a heat map. This was probably five or six this was pre covid. It was maybe even seven or eight years ago. It was a heat map that showed, like, new construction, home pricing, and, you know, there was like 500,000 and up. Was just this massive chunk. And then there was all these ones, ones that were under about 300,000 it was around, like six or 8% or something like that. It was really, really small. If you look around, it hasn't gotten bigger. And so the question of inventory and availability and pricing, they're never going to talk about it on the national media, because there is no entry level home in Chicago, in New York, in LA, you're not going to find that. I mean, you're paying 200 grand for a doghouse in the backyard, if you're there. And so we are finding the entry level housing, but I think right now, an oversupply of inventory in some of these markets is a very good opportunity for people. If you're buying for with the right fundamentals, if you're buying in an area that's growing and has good long term, you know, 8,10, 15 year diagnostics. Then if you're buying now with builder incentives and all of that, yeah, your year one, year two, year three. Appreciation may not be the greatest because of that oversupply, but if you look at what's happening now with construction starts in a lot of places, builders have gotten scared off. They're not really starting them now. So if you're buying new now, in 2,3,4, years, all of the inventory will be sucked up, and there won't be new homes coming to the market. So you're going to be one of those people who has one of the newest homes in the area, more people are going to want to be getting in. And so your appreciation and rent growth is much more likely to be growing. So that's one of the things I love to look at, is I look at what new home starts, what happened in the past, what was oversupplied, but now, who's what cities aren't building. And if I know what cities aren't building, then I can compare it to, okay, well, you know, there are some cities in California that aren't building anything I'm not going to buy in California, but there are some cities in Minnesota, in Oklahoma, you know, in Texas, where they're not building anymore. And if it's landlord friendly and can cash flow and all of that, Sign me up. I'm bullish on parts of this, of the United States real estate market, not the whole United States real estate market.    Keith Weinhold  23:55   It's been pretty well documented that parts of the nation are overbuilt. However, especially in Florida and Texas. And I brought up the point months ago Adam that if you buy, say, a new build income property in temporarily overbuilt pockets today, five years from now, looking back five years onto today, you could be like, Yeah, I bought five years ago, when some areas were actually overbuilt, and I snagged a deal, and the builder was even giving me incentives like my rate at that time, because, you know, long term, the demand is going to be there and that the absorption is going to be there. So it's about knowing what's happening and then identifying the right time in that cycle. In today's environment, some feel that DSCR loans are a better option for investors, and what that means a debt service coverage ratio loan is that you qualify for the loan not with your personal income, but instead with the property's income. Do you see more investors employing dscrs?    Adam Schroeder  24:55   We see a ton for a really good reason. That is simply put, especially if you're utilizing these builder incentives, buy down rates on DSCR frequently outperform ones with conventional like some of the lenders we're working with. I look and let's say you're putting 4% I looked at it this morning with an investor with 4% of purchase price towards your loan on a DSCR loan, you're down to 5.49% on a DSCR, but conventional, you're at 5.75 that doesn't happen for the most part. It's just something that right now, the risk profile of investors is allowing the rates to be either at or better than conventional many times. Plus, people love to put their properties in LLCs for protection, and they'll worry with conventional, oh, what if a due on sale clause gets triggered, even though it's really hard to trigger that, if you worry about it, well, why not just get a loan that's equal or better than a conventional that doesn't go on your you know, debt to income and can go straight into the LLC to begin with, and then your hands are clean the whole way through, and you're not having to worry about transferring titling. Honestly, my wife is about to murder me because I have some properties that were meant to go into an LLC two years ago that are not currently in an LLC.   Keith Weinhold  26:17   Well, hopefully you'll live until the end of this interview. Tell us more about DSCR loans, and maybe some that, no you talked about the upside, maybe some red flags and some things to look out for, times when we would not want to employ that loan type.    Adam Schroeder  26:30   A lot of it with the DSCR you're looking at like you said, they're not evaluating you necessarily. Now you do have to show reserves. You do have to show that the property will perform on its own. But sometimes full doc loans with conventional can be the way to go, because, like I said, in the past, it used to be that DSCR loans were three quarters of a percent, or a full percent higher than the DSCR. Or, yeah, DSCR was higher than the conventional. And so if you could get a four and a half with a conventional versus a five and a half on a DSCR. It's well worth the extra paperwork that might come with doing it to save yourself that money and really build up your cash flow. We are just in a very awkward time of investing, where the investors for DSCR loans, the people who are buying those mortgages, are not the same people who are buying the Fannie Mae Freddie Mac secondary loan market, and so they just have different risk profiles, which allows the rates to be different. So that's really the big thing. Is, if you've still got your Fannie Freddie slots, it's worth talking to your lender and saying, what would it look like if I did this loan? What would it look like if I did that loan? Where am I? But when it's all said and done, if you're really close or equal, I would almost always skew towards the DSCR to protect myself, go straight into an entity and keep it off of my debt to income ratio, plus on dscrs. You also have the option, and we don't recommend this for every property or even for certain people, depending on risk profile, but you have the option to do an interest only loan with 20 or 25% down, which allows you to do kind of what we call cash flow management, where people get worried about interest only loans and say, Well, I'm not building equity. I'm not doing this, not doing that. Well, you're not, but you're also, you can still put principle towards your loan every month, right? Like a principal loan, maybe you're throwing 200 bucks a month, a principal towards that. Well, with an interest only loan, you can still put that $200 in. But what it means is, if there's a month where maybe you have some repairs that need to be done, or something like that, don't pay the principal and on the interest only, you're still okay on a principal and interest. If you can't pay that, if you just pay all the interest, they're still going to say, well, Keith, you're late on your loan, right? And so it gives you a little bit more flexibility, but it's not for everyone. It's not for every property, so definitely talk with lenders about that. But conventional loans don't offer that. DSCR loans can.    Keith Weinhold  28:53   There's always opportunity in every real estate market. It's just identifying what those are and then ethically exploiting the opportunity. So we're talking about buying in areas that are temporarily overbuilt utilizing DSCR loans. And another advantage in this market, which is an aberration, is the fact that new build properties, like few times in history, if any, actually cost less than renovated existing properties.    Adam Schroeder  29:20   Yeah. I mean, when you can get into, you know, an A class neighborhood with 80% owner occupied, 90% owner occupied, and you're getting in for way less than the median cost of a home in the US. You mean, you're getting in for, I mean, we've got new builds in the 220 range on some of them up to 400 you know, which is still below the median cost. Yeah, that's really good. If you're looking to get into any a class neighborhood, or even B plus neighborhood, finding a property that's 200 $250,000 in those areas is tough. It's just tough. And so especially because as pricing went up for everything with inflation, you know you can't do. Do a cheap rehab anymore. If you're going to do a good rehab, you can't do a cheap rehab. I talk to our teams all the time and tell me, Hey, I did, you know, I only spent $70,000 to renovate this property and like that is a lot of money. I know you're getting it out whenever you do the burn, you know, or sell to an investor, but still a lot of money to put in to get there.    Keith Weinhold  30:20   Well, then let's talk about identifying possible growth markets for long term investing success. New build properties tend to appreciate better than rehab properties. And you know what's funny, Adam, I was just sharing this with my audience on a recent episode. I largely disagree with this long time investing axiom in real estate that says appreciation is just icing on the cake. I think I know what they're saying that doesn't help you out on a month by month basis, but we're in real estate investing for the long term and long term, more of your returns typically come from leveraged appreciation than they do on the cash on cash return from cash flow. So to me, appreciation is not just icing on the cake. In a lot of cases, it is the cake. And really, that's something that new build can offer more of.    Adam Schroeder  31:09   Yeah, I mean, it's almost in, especially in today's market, it's almost like cash flow is the icing on the cake. You know, you can get a property that, you know, is in that really good area, like we're talking about, and is, maybe it's appreciated a little bit now, but it's very likely to appreciate a lot later. If you're only making, if you factor everything in maintenance, vacancy, all of that, and you're making $100 a month, that's solid, you know, if you look at it, and if you're in those areas, if you appreciate 5% on a $300,000 property, let me tell you this, you're not going to make $15,000 in cash flow that year on that property. So if you look at the people who are really retiring on cash flow, are usually the people who have 100 200 300 doors or something like that, and they play the law of large numbers. I don't want to play the law of large numbers personally, I want to have really good quality assets and have fewer of them, and really work on having positive cash flow, but having the equity growth that allows me to pull money out tax free and either buy more investments or utilize how I want in my life.    Keith Weinhold  32:16   Exactly. If your property cash flow is $100 a month and it's a single family home. Some people say, Oh, that's awful. You would need 100 of them just to get 10k pass it per month. Now you're thinking wrong, and you're oversimplifying it like to your point, with the 300k home and 5% appreciation, that's 15k in one year, you're building equity that can be borrowed against, tax free, and you're building up that lump sum cash flow windfall down the road, if you will, in real estate pays five ways and cash flow matters, but it's only one of five profit centers and all that. So yes, we're so aligned on that one, appreciation is not just the icing on the cake, it's substantially more than that. Well, I've got something to announce. Adam here is going to co host, along with our own longtime investment coach, Naresh, an upcoming live virtual event. And it's called how to scale your portfolio with tenanted cash flowing new construction properties. And it aligns in every way with the trends that we've been talking about and that Adam and I have been identifying here. The event takes place next week. But first, tell us more about what you and the ray shall be speaking about at the event there. Adam.   Adam Schroeder  33:29    one of the biggest concerns people have about real estate, and one of the things that can eat in your cash flow more than anything, is vacancy. I mean, vacancy can kill your deal whenever it's all said and done, because it's one thing, if you're, you know, break even or $100 a month positive cash flow. But whenever you've got a vacant property and you're negative $1,500 a month, that can hurt, that can hit the wallet. And so what we really love, if you can hit it, is a tenanted property that's new and is in a growing area, yeah, and we've got that thankfully. I mean, we've been able to work some really good relationships with national builders that have allowed us to get into they were doing a lease to purchase option with tenants who wanted to buy their property but didn't have it saved up, and these people didn't exercise their option, but they've renewed their lease so you can come in and buy a property that has them in place. It is a house that they wanted to buy. So how long are they likely to stay? Probably quite a while. They like the school district, they like the neighborhood. They like everything about it. You're coming in, you've got the builder incentives we talked about before, and you're just in a positive cash flow position already. Now we're in Texas, which I was actually funny enough. Earlier, right before this interview, I was reading about the states that are going to grow the most, projected until 2050 and they expect Texas to grow by nearly 9 million people between now and believe it was 2050    Keith Weinhold  34:55   everyone's asking, when is it going to pass? California is the most populous state in the nation.    Adam Schroeder  35:01   Well, it depends how many people. In California are part of that 9 billion we've gotten quite a few of them there. As somebody who lives in Texas, and we're in the big cities too. We're not in the Podunk Texas towns you think about in, you know, east or west Texas. We're talking Houston, Dallas and San Antonio, which are three of the top, I believe, 15 largest cities in the country. We're getting some really good incentives. You can get up to right now, 10% builder incentive. So a $300,000 house, you have $30,000 that you can use. That's massive. Yeah, you can get that money back after closing. We can buy your rate down. And we have some people who have literally taken the whole 10% and put it towards a fixed 30 rate at four and a quarter percent. Wow, they are locking themselves in at four and a quarter. Or we have some people who say, like, we were just talking about cash flow is not a concern for me. I'm going to take half my down payment back, and I'm going to go buy another property, because I'm only in this property for 10% now, and so they're able to be, you know, roughly break even in a good growing area, and they can acquire a second property. So you're buying two properties without mortgage insurance for essentially a 30% total down payment, and you're getting your 10% back if you buy the second property. So it's just really incredible time. Like you said, we haven't seen a time like this before. We were able to get into the wholesale division of these builders and provide these incentives that I've personally never seen before. Some of our reps are buying these homes themselves, so we're putting our money where our mouth is. It's just a great time, especially like you were saying, these homes the inventory, take advantage of the opportunity, right? And there's an opportunity that's presenting itself. And if you look at the long term demographics of Houston, Dallas and San Antonio. It's an arrow pointed up. That's what those areas are.    Keith Weinhold  36:46   100% I mean, it's almost as predictable as anything. There's never a guarantee, but continued population growth and obvious need for housing there is about as close as you can get. That's massive. 10% back, 380k purchase, $38,000 back at the closing table to use in discount point buy downs completely or half on discount point buy downs and half to pocket and use on another property or use on your next vacation or whatever you want to do. That's massive.    Adam Schroeder  37:18   Yeah, it's fantastic. One thing I forgot to mention about Houston. It's one of the things I love that people don't think about has the third most headquarters of fortune 500 companies in the country, behind New York and Chicago. So people don't think about that when they think of Houston. But I love to throw that out there, because it's there. I love Houston. I lived there for seven years. It's where I met Naresh, actually, and would happily move back there again   Keith Weinhold  37:42   right? Houston has moved so far past the monolith of just having oil be the economic driver. So we're talking about tenanted new construction properties in pretty hot markets, Houston, San Antonio and Dallas ready for you to purchase with that 10% builder incentive. And these are in communities that are primarily owner occupied, so they do have that high appreciation potential and that potential for solid rent growth. So on the live event, the webinar that you are invited to attend from the comfort of your own home, what you can do is just learn more about this overall strategy and why the time in the market is right for this. Learn more about those geographic markets themselves and then their drivers, and even see available new build income property. And the benefit of you attending a live is that you can have any of your questions answered right then and there. You can sign up at grewebinars.com, and Adam, before I ask you if you have any last thoughts, that event is next week. It is Thursday, November 13, at 8pm eastern time again, you can sign up. It is free. Space is limited, so that's something that you want to do now at grewebinars.com, any last thoughts? Adam   Adam Schroeder  38:51   yeah, I will just remind people there's always a reason to buy real estate, and there's always there's always a reason not to buy real estate, and depending on which one you subscribe to, you can always find those opportunities, or you can scare yourself off. So, you know, find the right opportunities that are there for you and your investing style and jump in. Because if you look at what's happening right now. When rates start coming down, owner ox are going to jump back in, and that tends to lead to prices going back up. Like Keith said, these are 85% owner occupied areas, and you're setting yourself up for success. And if you do it now, you can always refi later if rates come plummeting down right so find the right areas. Find the reasons to buy and go for it.    Keith Weinhold  39:41   This is a time when builders are really willing to give you a break. Take advantage of it if you possibly can. Adam, it's been great having you here on the show, and our audience looks forward to seeing more of you next week.   Keith Weinhold  40:00   Yeah, some real potential here. I'm rather excited for your future as a listener next week, investors like DSCR loans, since the qualification looks at the property, not you, and see conventional loans are more for owner occupants. They're fine. They work for investors too. But with dscrs, besides their other advantages, they're a check on making sure your property is profitable. It is just your rent divided by your debt service. That's all it is. So for example, with a $1,000 rent and a piti payment, principal, interest, taxes and insurance payment of 800 bucks. Well, then your DSCR is 1.25 Investors love them because there's no personal income verification, no W twos, tax returns, pay stubs. There's no debt to income ratio bar for you to have to clear also conventional loans often cap you at 10 financed properties, and DSCR loans have no such limit, so there's faster underwriting and easier approval. But with dscrs, look out. I mean, there could be some higher fees, and you might have a three to five year prepayment penalty. But buy and hold investors often keep the property that long anyway, so grow your income streams with dscrs, even when the w2 world says no. And notably, dscrs have absolutely nothing to do with job of the hut either. No sluggy concerns there   Keith Weinhold  41:42   if you've wanted a deal on a property today, here you are with these new build incentives that are really good, better than what most builders are giving looks like. Here's your chance. One reason that the builders are giving us a deal is because of the bulk of GRE buyers. This is for you, if you might want one property or 14 properties load up with these up to 10% builder incentives, or just attend the webinar and learn more. We got into the wholesale division of these builders. We got them right where we want them. The properties are typically already tenanted. So plant your flag in the ground, and call this the pivot point. This whole thing could be a bigger deal than the first man to walk on Mars. We'll see, though, no man has walked on Mars yet, but you don't need to wait that long. Take one of your 30,000 days that you've been gifted in this life of yours, the 30,000 days you've been allotted on this earth to win back some of your future finite time. It is next week, Thursday, the 13th, at 8pm Eastern. It's also GRE last event of the year, your last chance, a live, virtual event where you can attend from the comfort of your own home or anywhere. And it's free. Registration is open now. Sign up at gre webinars.com that's gre webinars.com Until next week, I'm your host. Keith Weinhold, don't quit your Daydream.   Unknown Speaker  43:17   Nothing on this show should be considered specific, personal or professional advice, please consult an appropriate tax, legal, real estate, financial or business professional for individualized advice. Opinions of guests are their own. Information is not guaranteed. All investment strategies have the potential for profit or loss. The host is operating on behalf of get rich Education LLC, exclusively you   Keith Weinhold  43:45   The preceding program was brought to you by your home for wealth building, getricheducation.com

We have two guests on today's show. Garrett Sutton is well known as one of the Rich Dad advisors for asset protection. His son Ted has joined the practice and is going to succeed Garrett in the long term. On today's show we are talking about some of the new legislation at the state level that will affect investors. So far only New York has enacted its own corporate transparency act. But there are other states that are considering it. The result could be a complex patchwork of regulations that will make compliance much more complicated than a single federal statute. To connect with Ted and Garrett, visit https://www.corporatedirect.com/. They also have a new Youtube channel called TENERO. ---------------**Real Estate Espresso Podcast:** Spotify: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](https://open.spotify.com/show/3GvtwRmTq4r3es8cbw8jW0?si=c75ea506a6694ef1)   iTunes: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/the-real-estate-espresso-podcast/id1340482613)   Website: [www.victorjm.com](http://www.victorjm.com)   LinkedIn: [Victor Menasce](http://www.linkedin.com/in/vmenasce)   YouTube: [The Real Estate Espresso Podcast](http://www.youtube.com/@victorjmenasce6734)   Facebook: [www.facebook.com/realestateespresso](http://www.facebook.com/realestateespresso)   Email: [podcast@victorjm.com](mailto:podcast@victorjm.com)  **Y Street Capital:** Website: [www.ystreetcapital.com](http://www.ystreetcapital.com)   Facebook: [www.facebook.com/YStreetCapital](https://www.facebook.com/YStreetCapital)   Instagram: [@ystreetcapital](http://www.instagram.com/ystreetcapital)  

Send us a textBefore you chase the next client or campaign - No one talks about this - Ask yourself: Could one lawsuit take it all away?They call him the legal architect behind Rich Dad Poor Dad's empire. Garrett Sutton and his son Ted reveal what founders miss most when it comes to asset protection.

Check out my newsletter at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://ShadowCapitalBrief.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and join my community at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://theEscape.club America's middle class is disappearing — crushed by rent, corporate greed, and a financial system built to keep it that way. In this 3-part series, Matt tears into the truth behind what's really happening to your paycheck, your savings, and the dollar in your wallet — and why fighting back might be the only option left. Part 1: How the Middle Class Fights Back and Saves Itself Why housing, wages, and corporate power have turned the “American Dream” into a rigged game — and what you can actually do to win again. Part 2: What Happens to Your Savings When Powell Leaves What Trump's war with the Fed means for your bank account, your mortgage, and the price of literally everything you buy. Part 3: 10 Reasons BRICS Won't Beat the Dollar Why the dollar isn't dying, no matter what the internet fearmongers say — and how to use the system's own inflation machine to your advantage. Your new biggest fan, Matt P.S. Hey, if any of this stuff resonated with you, I've got a few things that might help: My book - Rich Dad asked me to create a course to go with it. It's everything I wish someone told me before I wasted years figuring this stuff out the hard way.