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Lots of people don't understand how the legal stuff works after someone dies. One common misconception is that a will governs what happens to everything you leave. This is one misconception that will cause a mess. Join attorney and educator, Jen Gumbel, to learn why a will does not govern everything you leave.Good Legacy is brought to you by Your Organized (after)Life Workshop, an eight session, online at your pace workshop where I teach you what you need to know about estate planning and show you the steps you need to take to leave a manageable to list. Learn more at, https://organizedafterlife.com/estate-planning-workshop/Learn more Misconceptions That Cause A Mess, https://youtu.be/-AKunVJQ-M8 and download the free PDF, https://mailchi.mp/2065798a6252/59386b68po

A common question is "why does something go to probate?" Whether you're looking to avoid leaving a mess, dealing with a mess or just wondering why that real estate isn't on the market yet, join attorney and educator, Jen Gumbel, to learn why probate happens.Good Legacy is brought to you by Your Organized (after)Life Workshop, an eight session, online at your pace workshop where I teach you what you need to know about estate planning and show you the steps you need to take to leave a manageable to list. Learn more at, https://organizedafterlife.com/estate-planning-workshop/What's stopping you from estate planning? Take a free quiz to learn your barrier and get a prompt to help you overcome it, https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/60f0db7bb01a350017cd4541

An extremely common question is "what estate planning do I need?" Am I fine with a will? What about a trust? First it's important to understand what estate planning is. It's a strategy to reduce the legal issues that will come up when you die and if you become incapacitated. A strategy is more than documents, but it takes the right documents to set that strategy in place. Effective estate planning also takes financial organization. That means coordinating your assets to follow the plan.Good Legacy is brought to you by Your Organized (after)Life Workshop, an eight session, online at your pace workshop where I teach you what you need to know about estate planning and show you the steps you need to take to leave a manageable to list. Learn more at, https://organizedafterlife.com/estate-planning-workshop/What's stopping you from estate planning? Take a free quiz to learn your barrier and get a prompt to help you overcome it, https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/60f0db7bb01a350017cd4541

I don't sound like your typical lawyer. Because my industry isn't great at equipping you to actually leave a manageable to-do list and I know you are capable of doing so. Here's my story. This is how I know that you are capable of leaving good legacy and how failure to have an effective estate plan will interfere with yours.Find out more about me here: https://organizedafterlife.com/about-jen-gumbel/Looking for a speaker to talk to your audience about legacy? Contact me. https://organizedafterlife.com/speaking/Good Legacy is brought to you by Your Organized (after)Life Workshop, an eight-session, online, at-your-pace workshop, where I teach you what you need to know and walk you through the steps you need to take to leave a manageable to-do list. Learn more at, https://organizedafterlife.com/estate-planning-workshop/What's stopping you from estate planning? Take a free quiz to learn your barrier and get a prompt to help you overcome it, https://quiz.tryinteract.com/#/60f0db7bb01a350017cd4541

In this episode, Stephen E. Seckler, Esq. talks about how lawyers should adopt marketing strategies that feel comfortable and how hiring a coach make a big difference in building a law practice. Steve also talks about how he coaches lawyers through career transitions.  He describes the work he is now doing with senior lawyers who are trying to decide what comes next. Steve is host of his own podcast, Counsel to Counsel. He is a lawyer who has dedicated his entire career to helping attorneys find more career satisfaction. Timestamps:How young lawyers can overcome marketing challenges (3:52)Marketing tips for all kinds of lawyers (15:18)The importance of getting a coach and business development tips (27:44)The next stage for seniors (36:54) “Find a niche that you really like and enjoy, really go deep with that niche, you want to be known for something. When you're a young lawyer, again, the focus really should be on being a great lawyer giving great client service.” - Stephen Seckler Connect with Stephen Seckler:Website: http://www.counseltocounsel.com/LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/stephenseckler Stephen Seckler, President of Seckler Legal Recruiting and CoachingLegal Recruiting and CoachingStephen Sackler is a lawyer with over 25 years with marketing and career counseling experience working with other attorneys. He hosts the Counsel to Counsel Podcast where he interviews leading attorneys and consultants about the legal profession and his blog Counsel to Counsel has been twice named to the ABA Journal's Blawg 100. LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenseckler/ Have comments, questions, or concerns? Contact us at feedback@1958lawyer.com Episode Transcript:Ron Bockstahler  1:53  Our guest today is Stephen Sackler, a lawyer with over 25 years with marketing and career counseling experience working with other attorneys. Even hosts, he hosts the podcast Council, the counselor, where he interviews legal leading attorneys and consultants about the legal profession. And his blog counselor counselor has been twice named to the ABA journal journals blog 100. So the juror doctor is in Stephen, welcome to the show. Thank you very much. Happy to be here. Hey, let's get started a little bit by laying some groundwork and talk about your background and how you found your calling and helping other attorneys achieve success.Stephen Seckler  2:52  Okay, well, it's been a long journey. I did go to law school. And when I graduated, I wasn't feeling that motivated to continue. On my journey to become a practicing lawyer. I made a stab at finding a legal job. But then I stumbled into Massachusetts continuing legal education, where I was developing continuing education programs, I was hobnobbing with the leaders of the bar in Massachusetts. And I got very interested in marketing, business development. Interested in general career development, I also saw how some of the leaders of the bar were really cultivating and building their own careers. So in 1997, about seven years after I began that I decided to launch my own consulting business. And initially, I was really focused heavily on recruiting. More recently, I have been focused much more on coaching lawyers on how to grow their practice, as you said, and how to manage their careers. And that's what I've been doing for the last 20 years or so.Ron Bockstahler  3:52  So Steve, let's kind of start with some of the challenges new lawyers are facing and building the practice. And I kind of really want to hit maybe a little focus on the marketing of their services and building their book of business.Stephen Seckler  4:04  Sure, well, what I always say to young lawyers is that when you're beginning your legal career, the most important thing you could do is become a great lawyer, learn your craft. Try to learn as much as you can about whatever practice area you're in. But at a certain point, and especially for lawyers who stay in private practice, having your own clients is really what's going to make you a much happier lawyer. In my observation over the last 2530 years. It's the lawyers who really have their own clients who have their own book of business that have more career flexibility, and they're basically just happier. And that's not entirely true because there are some niche practice areas that don't lend themselves as well, to business development. But for the most part, a lot of lawyers in private practice are happier when they have their own clients.Ron Bockstahler  4:52  Now, I seen I believe you're on Steve Breton show not too long ago. Be that be that attorney I think is what his show is called. And, you know, Steve's always about building your book of business. And that's what really brings your value, either at the firm or when you go in on your own. But how do you build that book of business? You know, what's been your journey? If I met a big firm, I mean, I'm working your big time hours, I don't have time to go out and really make relationships. And what are you how are you suggesting a young attorney that's 10, a few years 10 or fewer years practicing to build their book.Stephen Seckler  5:30  So the first thing is to find a niche that you really like and enjoy and really go deep with that niche, you want to be known for something. When you're a young lawyer, again, the focus really should be on being a great lawyer giving great client service. And the clients could be the lawyers who you report to the partners, as well as the real clients who are paying the fees. But as you get more senior, new, there are things that you can do to continue to lay the groundwork for success in business development. As a young lawyer, maybe you might help a partner prepare some course materials for a CLE program, maybe you might write some blog posts yourself, maybe you might post some things on social media. But basically, as a young lawyer, you can begin to develop this niche. And you could also begin to start to produce some content yourself. Maybe as you get a little bit more senior, you might appear on a panel or on a presentation, do a presentation, maybe it might be internal presentations. So even though there are very strong demands on young lawyers these days, to bill a lot of hours, there are little things that you could do. The other thing is as you get out of Well, as you leave law school, and you enter the working world, you still have relationships that will eventually bear fruit, these are people that you went to college with people that you went to law school with. And if you just maintain and keep up those relationships over time, those could blossom, it's not clear which ones will become business. But as a young lawyer, just making sure to get out of your office once in a while, or calling a friend, or getting on a zoom as we do now in the world of COVID. Just being aware that you can't build a practice, you won't be able to build a practice if you don't connect with the world. And you can lay the foundation and it's like investing for anything you invest for college, if you start at the moment, when you want to actually have enough money for college, it's kind of late if you start investing in the relationship building early on and just kind of pick away at it. It's like farming, you plant the seeds and they will grow.Ron Bockstahler  7:36  So you've helped a lot of attorneys adjust their careers either moving from one firm, maybe they weren't happy something wasn't working out to other firms. mean is it recommended to make a lot of moves within your career?Stephen Seckler  7:49  Well, within reason, I mean, it depends upon the reason for making the move. Sometimes people get off on the wrong foot, that's not an uncommon reason for somebody to make a lateral move. Lawyers are can be unforgiving, especially at the larger law firms in terms of how people make a bad first impression. So sometimes making a lateral move can help you with that. A better reason. And a lot of times the reasons that I help and have helped people make lateral moves, is because the firm didn't really have the kind of clients where they weren't able to do the kind of work that they wanted to do. And then sometimes they don't like the environment in general, they don't like the way the firm is run, the use of technology, the commitment to professional development. So there are sometimes non practice reasons why people make lateral moves.Ron Bockstahler  8:35  And it goes back to what you said earlier, find that niche that you really enjoy doing and just become the best at it. Yeah, that seems a common theme. I think that's what helps us create just happiness and what we're doing, which and let's we'll kind of hit on a little of the mental health issues in the legal industry. I know. You've recently had a guest on your show. Ida Abbott talked a little bit about, you know, designing or designing your retirement, I guess. And you know, when does that start? Well,Stephen Seckler  9:08  it's at some firms in reverse starts. But, but in a healthy firm, I think by the time lawyers are three or you know, beyond 30 years into practice, that's something they might want to be thinking about. And something I've been focusing on more lately. Because a healthy law firm has to keep praying or any organization that's healthy, has to keep bringing up the next generation of talent. And again, it's the same thing as investment. If you kind of wait until the day before you retire, you haven't really laid the groundwork for transitioning the clients. If you stay practicing until late into your 60s into your 70s you show no sign of relinquishing control over the firm. Then the up and coming talent may decide they're not going to stick around. So there's a threat to the firm because the clients may leave and there's a threat to the talent Management because the talent may leave. So I would argue that once you're into well into your 50s, that's when it's a good time to start thinking actually, from my own experience. When our last child went off to college in 2017, my wife and I participated in a program on aging. And it was a great program. And we didn't get the memo, like everybody else in the program was like, in their late 60s and early 70s. And what was so great about not they weren't lawyers, it was just other professionals, or the one of them was a musician who had trained as a lawyer in practice for a while. And what I realized is that it really never is too soon to be thinking about, about the next stage. So a couple of summers ago, I went out and bought a Martin guitar and started playing.Ron Bockstahler  10:47  Alright, already starting to plan that retirement.Stephen Seckler  10:51  Yeah, I won't be retired for a long time. ButRon Bockstahler  10:54  you know, I'd sent you that article recently. Martha McGarry, let's talk about that real quick scans. first female m&a partner says no to retirement to forced retirement at 70 and moves over to I believe, Mayor Brown, you know, what do you think of that? What kind of get some input on that?Stephen Seckler  11:12  I think it's a really, I think it's a conundrum because people age at different rates. I mean, it was talking to sort of have a hard and fast rule. May, you may have somebody that's got a lot of vibrancy at the age of 75. And you may have somebody that's really on the decline at the age of 70. So I heard two stories from the CEO of a law firm called burns and Levinson here in Boston. It's a midsize firm. And he told me two tales, one of a lawyer who was about 70, and had planned out a nice transition transition to all his clients over a period of three years, and then spent a lot more time with his grandchildren got involved in a lot of nonprofit causes and had a happy departure from the firm. And then he told me about another partner who was in his late 70s. And it was already experiencing some cognitive decline. And partners at the firm, were noticing it, the clients were starting to notice it. And eventually he ended up leaving the firm. He didn't want to relinquish control. He just wasn't ready to leave because he didn't know what he was going to do next. And he died a year later. I mean, it was sort of tragic.Ron Bockstahler  12:21  Yeah, that I can tell you within, you know, my firm and model office suites, I've it kind of thinking about that. And, you know, listening to your show with Ida, I went and looked back, and we've had seven law attorneys that have passed away while still, you know, working in our spaces. And two of my specifically recall talking to about when they retire, and they said when I die. And well, I yeah, I don'tStephen Seckler  12:48  I don't think that's the wrong answer for everybody. But I think that, you know, there are some people that really get meaning it's all about meaning. It's like, it's the existential question of where do you how do you derive meaning and I think for some people, like I had a friend whose father was a lawyer, and he went into the office until he was in his late 80s. He just loved being a lawyer. I mean, he wasn't going in full time. And you know, by the time he was in his late 80s, he certainly wasn't doing a ton of client work. But you can't really say, you know, like Ruth Bader Ginsburg, she was a Supreme Court justice until well into her 80s. Now, for political reasons. Some may say that that was a colossal mistake if you happen to lean the way I do. But she was vibrant. She was sharp, she was producing great work, and she loved her work. So I don't think the there's a right answer for anybody. I think a large firm though, like, like Skadden or any of the bigger institutions, I mean, I know accounting firms actually have mandatory retirement at a much younger age. They're like, 62, I think I heard. And the reasoning there is that, again, it's the succession planning issue. It's how are the clients going to have confidence that they're going to continue to be served? How are the up and coming talent going to perceive that there's going to be room for them. But I mean, I don't think a healthy model is to say you have to leave I think a healthier model is I think it's good when Proctor has a model where you have to give up your equity, maybe at the age of 67. I'm not sure what the ages. But it doesn't mean you have to leave, you can work out an arrangement where you can continue to do work. But you know, and that, and some lawyers do want to continue to do work. But some lawyers just haven't been able to figure out what they want to do next door. It's just terrifying to think about what's going to happen after the day they're not coming into the office. And so I'm doing a lot of work in that realm. And I'm really enjoying it.Ron Bockstahler  14:42  And I want to get to you have a new program called the next stage but before we get to that I kind of want to reel is back just a little bit. You know, a lot of our listeners are going to be on the younger side. 30s 40s 50s and 60s, I guess it's still we're talking about young and you're careful, careful. Let's talk a little bit more about some of the challenges are facing and you know, What is there? Is there a specific trait that really makes attorney really good at originating work going out and getting new business? Or is it is it a trade or something that they can learn?Stephen Seckler  15:18  So I used to think that any lawyer could become a good Rainmaker. And I don't mean like a $10 million Rainmaker, but I used to think that any lawyer could develop a practice. And now I think that most lawyers can develop a practice. There are some lawyers that literally will always be best suited to being in the back office, working on the deals by looking at the documents and not really interacting as much with the clients. So and that's fine. For some people, tax seems to be an area where that that seems to happen. But a lot of lawyers, a lot of the people that are in your offices could definitely improve their marketing skills. And I think the biggest problem that a lot of lawyers have is that they save marketing for a rainy day. They are busy, they're doing work, everything seems good. And then they wait until they don't have enough work. And then they start marketing. And successful marketing is really like the tortoise and the hare story, the tortoise is the one that's going to win the race, because, you know, you don't know when someone is going to have a need for your services. And I have a friend who's in my network in our networking group revisers, Michael Katz, and he talks about when he does presentations to people on marketing, he'll say how many of you are going to buy a refrigerator in the next 15 minutes. And like, nobody's going to buy a refrigerator the next 15 minutes, how many of you are going to buy a refrigerator the next 15 years. And of course, a lot of people are going to buy a refrigerator in the next 15 years. And that is the essence of the problem with selling professional services you don't know when somebody you meet is going to have a need for your services, or hear of somebody who has a need for your services. Therefore, showing up on a regular basis, making it a habit is really important. And it's really hard for lawyers, particularly at the larger law firms where the hours are grueling to set aside time to do that. But if you could make just a little bit of time to sort of systematically, drop a note forward an article, post something on LinkedIn and show up once in a while at a bar association meeting, connect with an old law school classmate, connect with a college classmate who's now in a corporate environment, those things over time will pay off because at some point in the future, somebody may have a need for your services. And somebody may know if somebody was a need for your services, or they may never have a need for your services. But you may hear of a need that they have.Ron Bockstahler  17:52  It's a great point. Now it add to that is be genuine. And you know, find a networking group or associations you can belong to that you really have an interest in. Not just you're not just going because you want to get work. It I think people can tell.Stephen Seckler  18:11  I agree. I mean, you and I are improvisers. And what I love about pro visors, I've been a member for two years. And I'm like not drinking the Kool Aid. I'm like guzzling it. And I say that jokingly. But I mean, what I love about it is people are just so eager to help each other. It's really almost not like the real world. I mean, I just got a referral of a lawyer who's thinking about the some of these existential issues. The person who, who referred me as a marketing consultant, so she's not a lawyer, but she met this person who seemed like she had a need. And she referred this woman to me, she said, You should call Steve. And she didn't, actually this woman followed up with me and said, Did so and so contact you said No, I haven't heard from her. But I really, really appreciate the referrals. Who said I'm going to call her again. And so she called her again. And she said, you know, you really talked to Steve. And we spoke and we're going to work together. It's, it's a, it's a great network. So finding a networking group where people are genuine and authentic, like providers, and we're not unique, but it really helps to be around people that are like minded.Ron Bockstahler  19:17  Yeah, that makes me think of you as a coach. Is it? Is it hard for other attorneys to admit they need a coach?Stephen Seckler  19:27  It's it's really hard for attorneys to think that they need a coach. I mean, lawyers are sort of trained to think they can go it alone. They're gonna figure it all out. I'm smart. And the best expression of this that I heard was another coach. He doesn't really work with lawyers. Somebody also improvisers Sergio symbol. And he didn't attribute the quote anywhere, but the quote is basically, you can't read the label from inside the jar. And the notion there is that we none of us are self reflective. I mean, the best coaches that I know improvisers all have coaches I mean, that's how, how meta it is. So why does a lawyer think that they went to law school? And they learned how to research, you know, case law? Why do they think they should know anything at all about marketing. I mean, a lot of a lot of the coaching, though, is motivational. It's getting people to act, and holding them accountable. So I'm not saying that what we do as coaches is rocket science all the time. Sometimes I provide content that people hadn't thought of, I give them ideas. A lot of it is just holding them accountable and saying, Hey, you know, you said you were gonna do 10 push ups. So what's getting in your way?Ron Bockstahler  20:39  That's, that's a great point, you spend hundreds of 1000s of dollars going and get this amazing education. And then you start spending on yourself to continue the self improvement. And it really takes a push, I think, to get not just attorneys, but all of us to just go out there and go ahead and do need someone to help me.Stephen Seckler  20:58  Well, again, it has to do with like, thinking with an investment mentality, I'm investing in something. And lawyers are not always so good at that, you know, you get a client, you do the work, you build it out, and you get back. The fees are paid, you know, in marketing, you have to do lots of different things, and many of them won't have any return. So when, you know, I never promised anybody that I'm going to increase their business by any particular amount. So it may seem a little bit nebulous for what value am I actually getting. But you know, Michael Jordan had a coach outside of Phil Jackson. I don't know, I'm not really a basketball fan. ButRon Bockstahler  21:45  let's, let's, if we, you know, it's interesting, looking at the return, you get on Marketing, and today, you drive down the highway, and you see a ton of billboards. And it's, I mean, I bet 60% of them are from law firms, or attorneys. At least that's my perception. What was it like, if you go back before 1976, I think when the Bates versus the State Bar of Arizona case, when attorneys actually couldn't market.Stephen Seckler  22:12  I think that was a world in which lawyers did good work. And the work came to them. And then if you were a young lawyer, you got to the law firm, you learned how to be a lawyer, and eventually those became your clients. That's not the world we live in anymore.Ron Bockstahler  22:29  Today, you gotta go. I've never actually called an attorney. From a marketing piece, I've always called someone I know, and said, Who do you know that can do this type of work?Stephen Seckler  22:41  Well, I mean, the kinds of lawyers that put the billboards out are trying to market to individuals, and the kinds of individuals they're trying to market to, they may not have a big professional network. I mean, lots of people get injured, some of them have big professional networks. If I were injured, if a family member of mine were injured, I wouldn't absolutely reach out to a lawyer I knew liked and trusted. I mean, I happen to know a lot of personal injury lawyers already. But you know, if it was an area of specialization that I didn't know, I would get a referral. But a lot of people don't have those networks. So those billboards, I think, still work. Social media is probably even more effective now, though, because when somebody has a need, it's pretty common for people to Google it. But I don't think the you know, the general counsel if you need to attacks, you know, if he needs an Ursa specialist. I don't think the general counsel of GE, is typing in Ursa and googling it, you know, right?Ron Bockstahler  23:35  Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, let's talk about you know, moving on from that, let's talk about other career issues that you are seeing attorneys are experiencing just in the attorneys you're working with, because I know you're working with quite a few.Stephen Seckler  23:48  So I really enjoy helping lawyers sort of think through career transitions. So a common theme is lawyers want to go in house. And helping them think that through. Those are some of the people that I work with on a coaching basis. And these are particularly people like if you're a fifth year corporate associate, at a large law firm, you're going to get called by recruiters, you're going to be able to go in house, you're going to be able to be reactive. But for the rest of the world wanting to go into a corporate environment, that may be a harder transition. So the skills that I work with my clients on in career transitions are kind of similar to the marketing skills, it's about networking, going out and getting information, building your network, leveraging the contacts that you have. I was recently working with a ninth year associate who didn't make partner so that involved a little bit of propping her up she hadn't she was at a big law firm and thought everything was going well and you know, as does happen at a lot of these firms. She was kind of Sideswipe I've been taken aback, we went through a whole process. And eventually, I actually ended up introducing into the firm where she's now working, which is a regional firm in another part of the country. And she's not only excited about no longer working at a large law firm, where the hours are really grueling. But she's also excited about starting to grow her practice. And so we worked on her networking skills and her communication. And through that, she was able to see that she actually has some skill in relationship building that will help her to build a practice as she enters this new firm, with, by the way, lower bill rates, I have other clients who decide that they want to start their own practice. I've helped lawyers through those transitions. And a lot of the clients I work with, it's really helping them be develop a marketing mentality, develop marketing habits. And that's where people see the word lawyers see the greatest value in coaching because they could see like a real ROI. Whereas career stuff is a little bit more nebulous.Ron Bockstahler  26:04  It just shows Is it true that if you can get someone to do something for 21 days, they can create a habit never worked for me? It didn't work for me that I just curious, if you find something that maybe I don't know about?Stephen Seckler  26:18  I don't know about the 21 days, it takes a long time to get people to change their their behavior. It really does. I mean, I don't know. I'm just thinking about myself, although I did realize that I needed to get rid of the COVID. Wait, I gave the Colt the COVID 15. And sometime around the beginning of May, that's when I really took the bull by the horns. And now, and I basically went to work, work out every single morning. Except for the day after I totaled my car, I thought I should take the day off after that. But long story, short story didn't matter. It was fine. I was fine. But now I woke up like for example today. And I didn't work out because at a very early meeting. And I felt like I my day didn't start off. Right, you know, I did meditate, which I do also when I wake up, so I you know, but I think it takes longer than 30 days actually to develop marketing habits, because it's very contrary to the way lawyers think they need to spend their time you know, it's hard to fight the billable hour, the billable hour, is immediate, in some ways immediate gratification, you're going to do the work, you're going to build it out. And for the most part, you're going to collect that money. It's a lot easier as humans for us to see. And be motivated to do things where we get immediate rewards. Marketing is something that you have to do over a long period of time. So working with a coach can help build that muscle, like the reward you might get is like, you know, Steve Sackler will say, like, that was a great meeting you just had good job. Attaboy. And I, you know, I say that jokingly, but I mean, you know, trust me, it really helps like, you know, I'm losing, I've lost my weight. And, you know, I'm telling I'm reporting to my wife, I get off the scale, and I text her right away. And she's like, that's great, you know, and I feel that much more motivated to keep working out every day and to cut down on the carbohydrates and eat more protein and, and not eat mindlessly.Ron Bockstahler  28:21  So those are things you get from a coach is that positive reinforcement. But, you know, you when you mentioned the attorney that nine years didn't make partner, I made me think do you ever talk about the shortage, maybe a shortness in your abilities? And how do you improve? You know, avoiding what your skill sets are?Stephen Seckler  28:41  I'm sorry, you mean? Like, if you're working on something where it's not really in your it's not really one of your strengths, but you're kind of doing it anyway?Ron Bockstahler  28:48  I guess it's kind of like card school? Do you have to come and say, you aren't a great networker, and let's talk about why you're not a great networker and what you can do to improve? Or is it all just all positive? Okay, well, I'm here to support you and make you build, youStephen Seckler  29:05  know, I mean, I have plenty of clients that I, you know, I have to work really hard with to sort of get them to act. And some of them will never do it. You know, they just, they'll try and they won't, I won't say that's most of them. But some people are just not wired that way. I mean, look, if you don't like playing golf, and I only throw golf out, because it's sort of like a quintessential business development tool. It doesn't work for me. But if you don't like golf, you're not going to play. You're not going to enjoy yourself that's going to come across, you're going to make excuses not to do it. So. So you have to find out find things to do that you like that are consistent with business development, with marketing with generating work, and if you fundamentally don't like people, and I don't mean like you're misanthrope, but you just you know you don't really like learning about where somebody is kids go to school, or I mean I enjoyed learning little details about people I'm very I'm a natural schmoozer, you know, but I mean you don't have to. I'm not a natural glad hander. But you know, if you if you really don't like doing that at all, then it's going to be hard to be successful. But I have a client who didn't see himself as a successful Rainmaker. I'll use the word Rainmaker, but I don't mean it to mean millions. And he went through this process with me, he'd been practicing for 20 years, and we had some somewhat of a book of business, but it wasn't, certainly wasn't enough to go to another ham law 50 firm. And he did end up getting a job with another amla 50 firm again, I made the introduction, I didn't do it as a recruiter. But he went through this whole process. And now he's like, Well, actually, I do like going to baseball games, I like going to, you know, I enjoy being a basketball game sporting events. I like having coffee with people. So we're focusing on those things that he likes doing. People always say like, wow, I don't want to go to networking functions. I don't like that, well, you don't have to go to networking functions. I mean, in some ways, actually, networking functions can be a big waste of time. There's a there's an event in Massachusetts, there's an organization called combined Jewish philanthropies. And it's a hugely successful fundraising organization. It doesn't fund just Jewish causes. But you know, there's a lot of social service agencies that get their money from CJP. And every year, they have a big accountants, and lawyers, dinner, they didn't have one this past year, obviously. And I always go, and I don't go back. And you know, the organizational make a big hype about it, I think it's frankly, if you don't know too many people, and you go to something like that, it's not necessarily a great use of your time, I don't go there because I expect to get have meaningful interactions or, or really get to know new people. Although sometimes I do meet new people, I go there, because I know I'm going to run into a lot of Jewish and non Jewish lawyers and accountants. And then I'll make appointments to have coffee with them and follow up. So I'll go to a meeting that has 1000 people. And I'll end up setting up three appointments after that. But I do it because I know I'm going to run into people. If somebody doesn't know anybody in that environment, that's going to be you know, you're not going to be motivated to do it. So I work with people to sort of figure out what are the things that they're going to enjoy that are going to give them the opportunities to make the connections that might lead to direct work or referrals?Ron Bockstahler  32:25  So you kind of just took it right? Where I was thinking I want to go? And maybe I wasn't asking my question in the best way. But you got what I was looking for anyway, was, you know, I talked to a lot of attorneys and including myself to say, I hate networking. And okay, there's other things you can do you maybe you hate the concept, but there's things you do like, like, you know, just like going to a baseball game, that figure out the things you do enjoy doing and do those things. And you can still build your book of business through those type of activities, not necessarily the ones you don't like to do.Stephen Seckler  32:58  Exactly. I mean, if you like nonprofit work, community work, you know, you want to choose those activities where you're going to meet the kinds of people you want to meet. So like my my one of my I have a lot of stupid dad jokes that I use when I coach but one of my repeat jokes is, you know, if you want to marry somebody Jewish, don't hang out a Catholic singles dances. I've been married happily for 27 years, every month at the moment plus, but anyway. So so you have to choose those, you know, if you have your choice between two activities, or two people that you're gonna have coffee with. And one of them is a social worker. And the other one is the CFO of a bank, and you want to do more work with banks, then go have coffee with the bank doesn't mean bank CFO, it doesn't mean you shouldn't have coffee with your friend, the social worker, but you know, we only have a limited amount of time. So if you're going to make time to do business, development, marketing, do the things that are things that you enjoy, as you're saying, and things that will potentially lead you to the community that you want to get to be known. Absolutely, IRon Bockstahler  34:12  can tell you a real funny story is. So Steve fretts has been a client of mine for many, many, many years. And I went to him this is a friend one day and I said my partner had retired and my partner was the I call them the ultimate sales guy talked to everyone just loved doing that and allowed me to kind of sit in the background. And I sat Steve's asked and I said I got a problem. I hate networking. I hate more hate talking to people I hate all these things. He's like, Ron, you really don't have to go any Why don't you just open up your Rolodex. And you can kind of show your age and talk about a Rolodex and just start calling people you already know. And, you know, I'd looked at him I said because I never thought of that. So that was as simple as you know, here's a resource you already have. You don't got to go do a mixer of 100 people and you know, stand at the corner and talk to one person Don't go to that mixer. Just make phone calls with people you know. And you another thing I did, you know not liking these things as the Simon Wiesenthal Center is a big organization, you know, worldwide but in Chicago, Allison slovan peers, one of my good friends, and she's the director. So she would invite me to these events and I say house, I really just don't want to go first, I'm not Jewish. No, you'll go, you'll have your good time. And I started going, and then I started buying a table. And then I started bringing people. And all of a sudden, you know, I built so many good solid relationships from doing something that I enjoyed. Now, they have the woman women of valor luncheon, except for this year, almost every year. And you go to things like that where you can, it's, it's your passion, something you're passionate about. Next thing, you know, you're building great relationships, and you don't even realize you're networking, if you will.Stephen Seckler  35:54  Well, it's interesting that you bring up Steve frets, and because I've been getting to know him well, and I'm learning a tremendous amount from them. And Steve will take what I just said about not spending time at the Catholic singles dances, to the next extreme and and say that, if you're having networking meetings, try to structure them, so that you can come to them thinking about how you can help each other so that you're not just having random acts of lunch and coffee. And he's really good at that, you know, just because we all have ways that we can help each other. And it doesn't mean that, you know, there's any specific thing that I'm going to get out of it. But if I could help somebody else, then you know, you never know, you never know when you're gonna meet your wife or your, your wife, sister.Ron Bockstahler  36:38  Well, and that's what I call being genuine, right, you're going because you got a genuine reason not because you're looking for something. And I think that makes a big difference. So we're kind of run out of time. So I really want you to talk about the next stage for seniors that you've got going on in your program your you've launched.Stephen Seckler  36:54  So the next stage is really something that I've gotten very excited about over the last year and a half. So as you know, I sent you an article I wrote, my parents died at the beginning of the pandemic. And they live long lives, they were quite elderly. So very sad, not tragic. And they did die of COVID. But what it really made me start to think about is what do I really want from my career. And then I started to realize this, a lot of lawyers, particularly in their 60s, not always could be younger, who really haven't thought that through, then who could really benefit from working with somebody to come up with a plan a strategy and to start experiment thing. It's not like practicing law, the process that I take people through the next stage is really about having an open mind taking action. I base my work on something called designing your life, which is a book by Bill Burnett, and Dave Evans, who are out in Stanford, and they applied design thinking to career management, actually, either avid who you've mentioned, just wrote a great book, which is more focused on retirement, their book is more focused just on careers in general. But there's a bunch of principles that they that they raised, that I think are really great for career exploration, and they're very, very different than the practice of law. Lawyers sort of have a goal in mind, and they work towards it until they close the deal till they produce the will. Until they, you know, move the case along and and take the depositions and then whatever, the it's very, very goal oriented, the process that I take people through is not you don't know where you're going. And that's okay. And what I love about working with people that are sort of later in their career, because I'm also at the stage myself is if you've made it financially well enough, I mean, not all of us could be wiped out by by long term care. But, you know, forgetting that a lot of lawyers are in this country are ageing, and you know, they've made it and it's more like, they just haven't figured out what to do next. So they keep doing the same thing. But they have options. And I love working with people to sort of draw out of them. What is it that really makes them motivated, and part of it could just be doing more pro bono work or being involved on committees, mentoring younger associates, or it could be something like spending a little more time with their grandchildren, and cutting back on the practice. So there's all kinds of options, and it's an exciting time. And there are a lot of lawyers that are in the situation. There's a lot of aging baby boomers. And then the final piece of it that really excites me about doing this kind of work is that it feels like there's a need there. And the need is that, as I've alluded to already, you know, a lot of law firms need to think about these issues from a from an organizational standpoint because the health of the organization will rely on how well law firms continue to Bring up the next generation of talent and and make sure that the clients that they have feel like they're going to continue to be served. Because I mean, you know, we never know how, you know what, how long we're all going to be here on this earth. And I'm not saying that every 70 year old isn't in danger of imminent death. But you know, realistically, if a law firm hasn't done anything, or a lawyer hasn't done anything to sort of lay the groundwork for transitioning clients, and they're 70, you know, they could drop dead from a heart attack the next day. Or they could start to go into some cognitive decline. So thinking these things through on the, on a systemic level is really important for the law firm. And I think what gets in the way of it is that a lot of lawyers are afraid of, of what's going to happen when they aren't going into the office every single day. So I really enjoy helping lawyers to figure that out and address that issue.Ron Bockstahler  40:54  Yeah, we don't have time to go into it today. But I think having your back would be great to talk about the mental health. You know, we know there's a lot of addiction and some not so good things that working so hard, and the stress that can come from being a lawyer kind of falls into place into play, it's been addressed a little bit more now. But definitely something I think having a coach would help.Stephen Seckler  41:16  There's a lot of work going on in this in this realm, I'm actually going to be doing a webinar, I don't have a date yet, or any information specifically, but people can reach out to me, I'm going to be doing a webinar in the fall on keeping your law firm, healthy, and I'm going to be speaking. And then a woman who runs basically a wellness program where she does, basically wellness coaching and crisis intervention in institutions like, you know, corporations, but also law firms. So there are all kinds of issues that that are getting more attention now. And you know, succession planning what people do with their careers as part of it, just dealing with what you just said, substance abuse is another piece of it. And, you know, it's not all about just working, I mean, even fully cared about was making money, you got to make the machines run properly. And that means paying attention to these issues.Ron Bockstahler  42:09  Well, you got to be happy with what you're doing. And if we're happy we can make the world a better place. Right. It's a good starting point. Steve, I want to thank you for joining us today. It's been great talking to me, there's so many things we could talk about. But I think that I think we'll just get I thought we're just getting started. Now we'll have to have another show, I think people need to know that. You know, having a coach someone they can work with is super important. You spent so much money to get to law school, don't stop having someone help you out someone in your corner. And you know, call and get a coach, a counselor, the counselor, you can find Steve that counselor, Counselor calmStephen Seckler  42:49  is actually a counsel to counsel calm,Ron Bockstahler  42:52  yeah. He's got a great podcast, I've listened of many of his shows need to tune in to understand what's going on, just give him a call, because I think he can help help you, no matter what stage of your career you're at, he can help you just, you know, either positive reinforcement or say, hey, look, here's what you can do to make it better. But you know, take that extra step and find a way to enjoy what you're doing. You gotta leave the final comments to you.Stephen Seckler  43:17  Yeah, no, I agree. It's, you know, life is too short, you know, start doing what you want to do, if you can, I mean, it is a bit of a luxury, but if you could afford the opportunity to, you know, to change the life and try to build the life that you want. There's no reason not to do it.Ron Bockstahler  43:37  You know, I can say that my career, you know, I've worked with 1000s of attorneys, with my company. And I've seen so many just quit practicing law, brilliant attorneys, but they were just frustrated. And it really had nothing to do with, with law itself. It had to do with the business side or had to do with, you know, other things that that could have been controlled if they were if they had a coach if they had the right people. And so I just stressed you, instead of getting frustrated, just reach out for some help. And, you know, call Steve, he'll help you out.Stephen Seckler  44:08  Well, thanks, Ron, I really appreciate it. And it's been really great meeting you and learning about your services. And I'm excited about your services, because now I have a place to send all these people that are starting their law practices, who want resources like paralegals that they don't necessarily want to hire, but they need on a fractional basis. I think that's a fantastic resource.Ron Bockstahler  44:29  And we appreciate that, you know, it took me a long time, just like a lawyer trying to figure out what their career is going to be. But it took me a long time to figure out what, what I wanted to do, and you know, what my company would look like. So I started my company 20 years ago, but it wasn't till 2012 that I really started, you know, working only were exclusive with law firms. And then I realized what I really want to do is I want to make legal services available to everyone in the world at affordable price, but to do that You gotta, you gotta find a way for the attorneys to, you know, be able to do it. And that's what kind of led to what we're doing today. But you know, there's, there's a way to do it. And I'm talking to the attorneys that are working in corporate America that are making, you know, millions and hundreds of millions dollars that we all hear about. Because that's not the majority. 76% of attorneys are with the firm of five or fewer partners, or they're on their own. But it's really hard to be able to afford to give low cost, legal practice and still survive. And I think that's where we're and then we're seeing some sandbox start starting, you know, what we got in Utah, we got in Arizona, California is talking about it. British, Ontario and BC just announced their new programs, that they're trying to adjust the way laws practice. But our vision, or at least my vision was to say, Okay, how do we make it, practicing law a fun thing to do, and you can do it and be successful and still help others. And that's where we came up with it. So, so working with people such as yourself, it just new expands that, that vision? Let's, let's make attorneys help happy, and they'll help other people?Stephen Seckler  46:08  Well, I think I think the model that you have is great, because, you know, I think ultimately people that I think a lot of people that do end up in practice by themselves, if they've had the luck and fortune of being trained up by a bigger firm, and they've gotten the training, they end up happier when they're in control of their own destiny, and having a front, you know, fractional resources that they can buy from someone like you, or an office that you know, they don't have to spend a fortune on. You know that really, and just buy what they need. That really does make it a lot more affordable. And the old model of you have to hire somebody to do everything. I mean, technology. There's so many ways to run a practice so much more efficiently now.Ron Bockstahler  46:49  Times have changed. We know that people say in law, things don't change fast, but COVID has really accelerated and a lot of things in law change. So I don't see things naturally going back to the way they were so. Yep. Well, thanks for joining us. Thanks for listening, everyone. You've been listening to the 1958 lawyer. We appreciate it and we look forward to talking to you again real soon. Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Important Provisions of Law In order to answer the above, the Court first discussed Section 4 and Section 7 of the Indian Contract Act, 1872. The same have been reproduced as under: - “4. Communication when complete.—The communication of a proposal is complete when it comes to the knowledge of the person to whom it is made.The communication of an acceptance is complete,—as against the proposer, when it is put in a course of transmission to him, so as to be out of the power of the acceptor;as against the acceptor, when it comes to the knowledge of the proposer.The communication of a revocation is complete,—as against the person who makes it, when it is put into a course of transmission to the person to whom it is made, so as to be out of the power of the person who makes it;as against the person to whom it is made, when it comes to his knowledge.” “7. Acceptance must be absolute.—In order to convert a proposal into a promise the acceptance must—(1) be absolute and unqualified;(2) be expressed in some usual and reasonable manner, unless the proposal prescribes the manner in which it is to be accepted. If the proposal prescribes a manner in which it is to be accepted, and the acceptance is not made in such manner, the proposer may, within a reasonable time after the acceptance is communicated to him, insist that his proposal shall be accepted in the prescribed manner, and not otherwise; but, if he fails to do so, he accepts the acceptance.” Observations by the Court Thus, the Court observed that existence of offer and acceptance of an offer must be absolute, and it must be founded on three components: - 1. Certainty2. Commitment3. Communication In case, the acceptor puts in a new condition while accepting the contract that has already been signed by the offerer, the Contract will not get completed until the offerer accepts the new condition. Important Cases Discussed While explaining the jurisprudence behind acceptance of a contract, the Court started with the case of Raghunandhan Reddy v. The State of Hyderabad thr. The Secretary to Government Revenue Department, AIR 1963 AP 110, wherein the Court expounded in following terms: - “8. It is a well-established principle of law that only when an offer is accepted that the contract is concluded and binds the parties. It is equally well-settled that before an offer is accepted, the offerer can withdraw his offer, but if the acceptance is conditional or is not final, then there is no concluded contract.” In the case of Haridwar Singh v. Bagun Sumbrui and Ors., AIR 1972 SC 1242, it was observed by the Court that an acceptance with a variation is no acceptance and is simply a counter proposal that is required to be accepted in toto by the original proposer, before a contract is made. Further, the Court cited the case of Union of India v. Bhim Sen Walaiti Ram, (1969) 3 SCC 146, wherein it was held that “acceptance of an offer may be either absolute or conditional. If the acceptance is conditional, offer can be withdrawn at any moment until absolute acceptance has taken place.” Concluding Remarks The Court concluded by stating that in response to an offer, where there is conditional acceptance which is not agreed upon by the offerer unconditionally, then it could not be said that there was a concluded contract. And when there is no concluded contract, there is no question of any breach of that contract. In find it to be a welcome judgment as in the business world, there are constant negotiations going on between the parties who wish to enter into a contract. Such parties must remain cautious as until there is a concluded contract, it cannot be enforced, and no question of any breach would arise. It also gives an important lesson that acceptance of any offer has to be unconditional and till that happens, the parties must not assume that there exists a concluded contract. Hence, with respect to the question stated at the outset of this article is answered in negative and it could be said that the acceptance of a conditional offer with a further condition does not result in a concluded contract, irrespective of whether the offerer accepts the further condition proposed by the acceptor.

Introduction In the present case, Dr. AKB Sadbhavna Mission School of Homeo Pharmacy v. Secretary, Ministry of Ayush & Others, Civil Appeal No. 4049/2020, a question arose before the Supreme Court of India as to the relevance of homeopathic system and medicine for the treatment of Covid-19. Let us understand the same. Pleadings and Facts 1. The Government of India issued Advisory dated 06.03.2020 (in short, “Homeopathic Advisory”) in relation to usage of Homeopathic medicines and AAYUSH medicine system to all the states, in relation to the ongoing pandemic of Coronavirus (Covid-19). 2. It was pleaded that the State of Kerala did not take steps to implement the abovementioned Homeopathic Advisory. 3. The Petitioner pleaded that Homeopathic System would have been able to control the spread of Covid-19 through its immunity boosting medicines and had it been distributed earlier, the Covid-19 would not have spread like it has. 4. The Petitioner sought the following relief: - “To issue a Writ of Mandamus or any other Writ or Order directing the third respondent to ensure that the Homeopathic practitioners are immediately allowed to perform in accordance with the Exhibit P-1 notification.” Homeopathic Advisory dated 06.03.2020 This advisory provided that certain homeopathic medicines could be taken in consultation with qualified AYUSH physicians for prevention, prophylaxis, symptomatic management, add on intervention to conventional care. Homeopathic Practitioners (Professional Conduct, Etiquette and Code of Ethics) Regulations, 1982 The Court cited Regulation 6 of the above-stated Regulations states that any form of advertising by homeopathic practitioners is unethical and should not allow any other person to advertise in a manner that may result into self-aggrandisement. Further, homeopathic practitioners are not allowed to publicize themselves by publishing cases or letter of thanks from patients in non-professional newspapers or journals. Final Observations by the Court 1. In light of the statutory regulations prohibiting advertising, the Homeopathic medical practitioners cannot advertise that they are competent to cure Covid-19 disease and “homeopathy does not cure the disease, but it cures the patients.” 2. The Homeopathic Advisory dated 06.03.2020 by the Ministry of AYUSH makes it clear that the Homeopathy has been envisaged as a therapeutic aid and specifically states that “the prescription has to be given only by institutionally qualified practitioners.” 3. No medical practitioner can claim that it can cure COVID-19 and there is no such claim in other therapy including allopathy. 4. Homeopathic medical practitioners have to follow the Homeopathic Advisory dated 06.03.2020 as well as guidelines for Homeopathic medical practitioners for COVID-19, issued by Government of India, Ministry of AYUSH. Concluding Remarks There is a lot of confusion prevalent with respect to the Covid-19 disease. In such uncertain times, the number of medical quacks who dupe people is on a rise. It is certainly a welcome judgment for both the homeopathic as well as non-homeopathic practitioners. The Court adopted a scientific approach and rightly said that the claim to cure Covid-19 cannot be made by anybody and the scientists all over the world are working to find a solution. I hope that people follow the guidelines issued by the doctors and medical institutions in letter and spirit and do not fall prey to quackery and superstition.

Meaning of Dying Declaration Indian Laws do not provide a definition of dying declaration but the same could be understood by perusing a Law Dictionary. Before adverting any further, an earlier post by me in relation to credibility of dying declaration could also be perused. Black's Law Dictionary (8th Edition) defines ‘dying declaration' as under: - “A statement by a person who believes that death is imminent, relating to the cause or circumstances of the person's impending death.The statement is admissible in evidence as an exception to the hearsay rule.” The relevant provision of law in this regard is Section 32 of the Indian Evidence Act, 1872, which reads as under: - “Statements, written or verbal, of relevant facts made by a person who is dead, or who cannot be found, or who has become incapable of giving evidence, or whose attendance cannot be procured, without an amount of delay or expense which under the circumstances of the case appears to the Court unreasonable, are themselves relevant facts in the following cases: --(1) when it relates to cause of death. - When the statement is made by a person as to the cause of his death, or as to any of the circumstances of the transaction which resulted in his death, in cases in which the cause of that person's death comes into question.……..” Important Judicial Precedents in relation to Reliability of Dying Declaration K. Ramachandra Reddy v. Public Prosecutor, (1976) 3 SCC 618 – Once the court is satisfied that the dying declaration is true and voluntary it can be sufficient to found the conviction even without any further corroboration. Khushal Rao v. State of Bombay, AIR 1958 SC 22 – In this case, some important postulates were laid down with respect to reliability of dying declarations: - 1. There cannot be an absolute rule of law that a dying declaration cannot form the sole basis of conviction unless it is corroborated and that is a weaker kind of evidence. 2. Each case is to be judged on its own merits and circumstances. 3. Dying declaration stands on the same footing as another piece of evidence and has to be judged in light of the circumstances. 4. “A dying declaration which has been recorded by a competent Magistrate in the proper manner, that is to say, in the form of questions and answers, and, as far as practicable, in the words of the maker of the declaration, stands on a much higher footing than a dying declaration which depends upon oral testimony which may suffer from all the infirmities of human memory and human character.” 5. The circumstances like the opportunity of the dying man for observation, whether the statement has been consistent throughout if he had several opportunities of making a dying declaration apart from the official record of it and whether the statement had been made at the earliest opportunity and was not the result of tutoring by interested parties, have to be kept in mind while testing the reliability of a dying declaration. Tapinder Singh v. State of Punjab, (1970) 2 SCC 113 – “It is true that a dying declaration is not a deposition in court and it is neither made on oath nor in the presence of the accused. It is, therefore, not tested by cross-examination on behalf of the accused. But a dying declaration is admitted in evidence by way of an exception to the general rule against the admissibility of hearsay evidence, on the principle of necessity. The weak points of a dying declaration just mentioned merely serve to put the court on its guard while testing its reliability, by imposing on it an obligation to closely scrutinise all the relevant attendant circumstances.” Lallubhai Devchand Shah v. State of Gujarat, (1971) 3 SCC 767 – The person who recorded the dying declaration must be satisfied that the deceased was in a fit state of mind. Kundula Bala Subrahmanyam v. State of A.P., (1993) 2 SCC 684 – The Court stated that a dying declaration made by person on the verge of his death has a special sanctity as at that solemn moment, a person is most unlikely to make any untrue statement and such a dying declaration, by itself, can be sufficient for recording conviction even without looking for any corroboration. If there are more than one dying declarations, then the court has also to scrutinise all the dying declarations to find out if each one of these passes the test of being trustworthy. Rule of Caution and Reliability of Dying Declarations Time and again, the Hon'ble Courts have iterated that ‘Rule of Caution' must be exercised in order to test the veracity and the reliability of dying declarations. What is this “Rule of Caution?” The same could be understood by perusing a catena of judgments of the Hon'ble Supreme Court. Govindappa v. State of Karnataka, (2010) 6 SCC 533 – “…. What is essentially required is that the person who recorded the dying declaration must be satisfied that the deceased was in a fit state of mind. The certification by the doctor is essentially a rule of caution and, therefore, the voluntary and truthful nature of the declaration can be established otherwise…..” Sher Singh v. State of Punjab, (2008) 4 SCC 265 – “….The court should ensure that the statement was not as a result of tutoring or prompting or a product of imagination….. What is essential is that the person recording the dying declaration must be satisfied that the deceased was in a fit state of mind….. A certificate by the doctor is essentially a rule of caution and, therefore, the voluntary and truthful nature of a statement can be established otherwise.” Laxman v. State of Maharashtra, (2002) 6 SCC 710 – “…… Where it is proved by the testimony of the Magistrate that the declarant was fit to make the statement even without examination by the doctor the declaration can be acted upon provided the court ultimately holds the same to be voluntary and truthful. A certification by the doctor is essentially a rule of caution and therefore the voluntary and truthful nature of the declaration can be established otherwise.” Concluding Remarks The above-stated case-laws explain the test of reliability in relation to dying declarations in a succinct manner. It could be summarized as under: - 1. Dying Declaration is admissible in evidence as an exception to the hearsay rule. 2. Section 32 of the Indian Evidence Act, 1872, provides that statements, written or verbal, are themselves relevant facts when such statement is made by a person in relation to his death. 3. Conviction can be made solely on the basis of a reliable dying declaration. 4. Dying declaration stands on the same footing as another piece of evidence and has to be judged in light of the circumstances. 5. If there are more than one dying declarations, then the court has also to scrutinise all the dying declarations to find out if each one of these passes the test of being trustworthy. 6. Rule of Caution in relation to a dying declaration means that the Courts need to ensure that the statement is not a result of tutoring and the person recording the same must be satisfied that the deceased was in a fit state of mind.

Kelly Phillips Erb is a Senior Editor at Forbes where she writes about tax and tax policy; she also serves as editorial lead for Bankable by Forbes. She was previously a managing shareholder at The Erb Law Firm, P.C., where she focused on tax law for businesses and families. Kelly is also a mom to three children, so she can add "dinosaur expert," "cupcake baker" and "hockey mom" to her resume. In this episode, she shares her story about how spending time developing her craft, writing about tax law, finding her unique voice and making tax law accessible to everyone didn't go unnoticed.      What You'll Learn in this Episode:     How Taxgirl got started with her career and writing her blog, How she found her unique voice and unique writing style and how she managed to make tax law understandable and accessible to most people, How she thought her blawg went unnoticed for a while until she started winning ABA awards and then got an offer from Forbes, Her book "Home, Sweet Rental: Busting the Hype Of Homeownership” and how home ownership is declining with Millennials, and how home ownership might not make financial sense to everyone, How her family factors into the mix, and how she always knew that she wanted to be a mom and also wanted to work. How it was important for her to have the two co-exist.       Resources:   Home, Sweet Rental: Busting The Hype Of Homeownership Kindle Edition by Kelly Phillips Erb  (Author),‎ J. Christopher Erb  (Author) http://amzn.to/2BEs32E      Contact Information:   Kelly can be found on various platforms and her handle is @taxgirl Twitter  Facebook LinkedIn Instagram   Thanks for Checking Out the Show Notes and for Listening! I really hope you enjoyed this episode. I would really appreciate it if you shared this episode with a friend who could benefit from listening to this particular episode.   Also, please don't forget to subscribe to the GWL Podcast in Apple Podcasts or in Stitcher Radio. That way, every time I prepare a new episode for you, it'll automatically show up in your phone. Once last thing: I would truly appreciate it if you could leave an honest review for The Gen Why Lawyer Podcast in Apple Podcasts. Positive ratings and reviews help boost the visibility of the show and help me in reaching more lawyers.

Episode 48: Weekly Recap of July 3-9, 2017. Travel Ban's Public Support, State Dept. Survey, TNs Regs., Prima Facie Software, Healthcare for Immigration Lawyers, Pet Peeves, Book Review: Turn a Negative Into a Positive,  Pricing Your Practice Right, ABA Journal Blawg & More

My guest today is Jeff Richardson who is a treasured friend, and litigation partner at Adams and Reese LLP based in New Orleans. Jeff is also the author of the iPhone J.D. blog which the ABA Journal recently moved to their Blawg 100 Hall of Fame which recognizes outstanding legal blogs. I’ve presented with Jeff several times and always enjoy his energy and knowledge bank of all things iOS related. Apps mentioned in this podcast: 1Password Links: 1Password website (AgileBits) 1Password pricing 1Password for Families 1Password for Teams (great for law firms) Links above may be affiliate links to the iTunes App Store or Amazon.com.

Cari Rincker is the owner of Rincker Law, PLLC, a national general practice law firm concentrating in food and agriculture law. She is licensed to practice law in New York, New Jersey, Connecticut and Washington D.C. She is currently the Chair of the American Bar Association’s General Practice, Solo & Small Firm Division’s Agriculture Law Committee and serves on the New York State Bar Association’s Agriculture & Rural Issues Committee. She is a prolific writer and blogger on a myriad of food and agriculture law topics and has been recognized as an author of a Top 100 Blawg from the American Bar Association. Cari’s passion for agriculture issues is deeply rooted. She grew up on a seedstock Simmental cattle operation in Shelbyville, Illinois where she spent significant time working on her family’s farm. Cari went on to receive her Associate in Agriculture Science from Lake Land College and Bachelors of Science from Texas A & M University, where she had a successful career livestock judging at the collegiate level. Afterwards, Cari went back home to the University of Illinois to complete her Masters of Science in Ruminant Nutrition. Due to her passion for agriculture law and policy, Cari decided to complete her Juris Doctor from Pace University, School of Law, in White Plains, New York. At Pace, Cari completed certificates in both Environmental Law and International Law. Cari continues to have her boots planted firmly in agriculture -she enjoys judging livestock shows around the country and is the co-owner of Rincker Cattle Co., a SimAngus operation in Shelbyville, Illinois. She is the Past-President and Founding Member of New York Agri-Women, a Director for the New York Simmental Association, and Past-Secretary of the National Cattlemen’s Beef Association’s Young Producers’ Council. Cari is a recognized leader in the agriculture industry and the recipient of the Outstanding Early Career Award from Texas A & M University’s College of Agriculture and Life Sciences, the Distinguished Alumni Award from Lake Land College, the Vision Award from American Agri-Women and has been twice selected by the livestock industry as the “Best Agriculture Lawyer” in the Best of the Barns Competition. This program has been sponsored by Heritage Foods USA.

In this edition of Lawyer2Lawyer, hosts Bob Ambrogi and J. Craig Williams invite Allen Pusey and Molly McDonough of the ABA Journal to recap the past year’s legal news. Consider this a crash course on news stories such as Edward Snowden, gun control, and Obamacare. The discussion will not only cover the top stories of the year but also find the common themes in this year’s news and foretell what to keep an eye on in 2014. Pusey has been with the ABA Journal since 2007 and was named editor and publisher in 2011. Prior to the ABA Journal, he worked for 26 years at the Dallas Morning News as an investigative reporter, feature writer, special projects editor, and U.S. Supreme Court correspondent. McDonough is the deputy managing editor of the ABA Journal. She currently oversees online operations and special projects, including the Legal Rebels series and the annual Blawg 100. Molly has covered the courts and the legal profession for more than 20 years. She has been a reporter and editor for the National Law Journal, as well as a reporter for many other news sources. Special thanks to our sponsor, Clio.

On this episode of The Legal Toolkit, your host, Jared Correia, invites Jordan Furlong to discuss how the legal marketplace is changing and how law firms can react. “In the short term,” Furlong begins, “we're going to see a lot more regulatory reform ending in a small set of really advanced legal services, exclusive to lawyers.” Jordan goes on to prognosticate respecting the specific effects that changes will have upon solo and small firm attorneys, law students and law schools. Despite the disruptive change that will continue to take place in the practice of law, Jordan does, in the long term, see the light at the end of the tunnel for the redefined attorney. Jordan Furlong is a lawyer, speaker, and consultant based in Canada. He specializes in giving thought-provoking presentations covering the future of the legal marketplace and how to assimilate. Before working as a consultant and speaker, he edited top legal publications, including The Canadian Bar Association's magazine National and The Lawyer's Weekly. Currently he writes the blog, Law21: Dispatches from a Legal Profession on the Brink, a multiple ABA Blawg 100 honoree. His latest book, Evolutionary Road: A Strategic Guide to Your Law Firm's Future, is available from Attorney at Work. Tune in to hear more on the future of legal services: how these will be created, priced, and delivered, and how lawyers can take advantage of the changes.

There seems to be a resurgence in law-related blogging. But which blogs will have a significant impact on your practice this year? In this episode Dennis and Tom discuss recently-published lists of notable blogs, briefly chat about Dennis's own “Blawggie Awards” and share their recommended blogs, why they enjoy them and how they might affect your practice. Dennis and Tom will also share their own, personal technology resolutions for 2013 and as always, give their parting shots… that one tip, website or observation you can start using immediately after this podcast.

Are you looking to start your own blog but don’t know where to begin? New Solo host, Attorney Kyle R. Guelcher, a solo practitioner and the most recent Chair of the Young Lawyers Division of the Massachusetts Bar Association joins legal blogger, legal technology guru and co-host of Legal Talk Network’s Lawyer2Lawyer, Attorney Bob Ambrogi, to offer tips to solos on starting your own blog. Bob talks about everything from which platform is best, to what type of information you should contribute as a blogger, to how to promote your blog and stand out from the others.

In this September edition of Law Technology Now, host Monica Bay chats with Law Technology News’ Web Watch columnist and co-host of Lawyer2Lawyer, Bob Ambrogi. Bob says legal blogs have matured in the last few years -- and now provide rich, nuanced content that genuinely helps practitioners. Bob talks about why legal blogs are thriving and spotlights new sites that cover everything from fashion law to the Library of Congress.

Download the MP3 file of this posting. Saab v. Home Depot U.S.A., WL0249463601, No. 06-8014 (8th Cir. November 22, 2006) Automotive engineering versus mega home improvement? Nope, but this one might be just as interesting, in a perverse sort of way that only our brilliant CAFA aficionados would appreciate. The Eighth Circuit differentiates between traditional complete diversity jurisdiction and CAFA’s new minimal diversity jurisdiction in the context of appealing a remand related decision.The Eighth Circuit handed down a short opinion regarding the appeal provisions of CAFA and whether they are applicable to cases removed to federal court under traditional, complete diversity jurisdiction. This may be an important appellate court decision because it draws a distinction between complete diversity jurisdiction and minimal diversity jurisdiction under CAFA, where other courts have tended to blur this distinction, particularly in the context of jurisdictional burden of proof.  On November 22, 2006, United States Circuit Judge Bright, writing for the Eighth Circuit Court of Appeals, handed down a short opinion regarding CAFA. The Judge did not state the facts of this case, filed in Missouri state court by David Saab on behalf of himself and others against Home Depot. We can only imagine that the plaintiff had some terrible experience with a Do It Yourself project.  The judge simply stated that Home Depot removed the class action to district court arguing that the parties were diverse and the amount in controversy exceeded $75,000.00. The removal notice listed traditional, complete diversity jurisdiction as the ground for removal under 28 U.S.C. § 1332(a). The district court agreed with Home Depot and denied Saab’s motion to remand the case back to Missouri state court. Saab petitioned the Eighth Circuit to accept his appeal pursuant to 28 U.S.C. § 1453(c)(1), enacted under CAFA. The Eighth Circuit determined, however, that CAFA’s appeal provision does not permit an appeal from the denial of a motion to remand when the class action has been removed to federal court on the basis of traditional, complete diversity jurisdiction under Section 1332(a).  Saab argued that CAFA’s § 1453 should be viewed expansively to give federal courts of appeal jurisdiction to review the grant or denial of a motion to remand in ANY class action. The Eighth Circuit stated that this argument does not differentiate between class actions removed pursuant to 1332(a) – complete diversity jurisdiction, or 1332(d) – CAFA’s minimal diversity jurisdiction. (Editors' Note:   The Eighth Circuit here differentiated between the provisions governing complete diversity jurisdiction and CAFA’s minimal diversity jurisdiction, whereas other courts of appeal have broadly applied Section 1332(a) jurisprudence and precedent to 1332(d) minimum jurisdiction questions under CAFA in a manner that the Editors believe leads to incorrect results since the objectives behind the two types of jurisdiction are opposite. The objective behind complete diversity jurisdiction is to limit access to the federal courts, and the objective behind minimal diversity jurisdiction is to expand access.)  Finally, the Eighth Circuit joined with the Fifth Circuit in Patterson v. Morris and Wallace v. Louisiana Citizens Property Insurance Corp., in its holding. (Editors' Note:  See the CAFA Law Blog analysis of Patterson posted on June 5, 2006 and the CAFA Law Blog analysis of Wallace posted on May 22, 2006). The court stated that it must limit § 1453(c)’s appellate review provisions to only those class actions brought under CAFA. According to the Court, that reading is consistent with the legislative history of CAFA, which includes the observation that “new sub-section 1453(c) provides discretionary appellate review of remand orders under this legislation, but also imposes time limits.” (emphasis in original). The Eighth Circuit then dismissed the plaintiff’s petition for permission to appeal.  No doubt that the plaintiff felt pretty lowe when his appeal was dismissed. 

Download the MP3 file of this posting. Blockbuster v. Galeno, 2006 WL 3775326, Docket No. 05-8019 (2d Cir. Dec. 26, 2006). On March 23, 2006, the United States Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit handed down a summary order remanding this case against Blockbuster back to state court, in order to meet CAFA’s 60 day time limit to render decision under 1453(c)(2). The summary order can be found at Galeno v. Blockbuster, Inc., 171 Fed. Appx. 904 (2d Cir. 2006). On December 26, 2006, Circuit Judge Cardamone, writing for the Second Circuit, handed down an opinion explaining its reasoning behind the summary order.The case was originally filed as a class action in New York State Supreme Court on February 15, 2005 by Michael L. Galeno and other Plaintiffs against Blockbuster regarding Blockbuster’s “No Late Fee” program. The plaintiffs alleged deceptive business practice under New York law along with unjust enrichment under common law. The court noted that Blockbuster’s conduct resulted in a suit being brought by 47 Attorneys General and the District of Columbia which resulted in settlement and closing of the program by March 15, 2005.  The no late fee program began on January 1, 2005, and it was widely advertised by Blockbuster.  Under the program, Blockbuster no longer charged customers late fees for keeping rented videos past their due date, but instead automatically converted the rental to a sale of the video on the eighth day past the video’s original due date. The customer was billed for the selling price of the video minus the initial rental fee already paid. If the customer returned the video within 30 days after the sale date, Blockbuster refunded the sales price minus a $1.25 restocking fee.  The complaint alleged that the advertising was deceptive because it omitted the material fact that customers would be charged a sale fee. Blockbuster included some information on its website, but allegedly did not make the details clear. Also, Blockbuster allegedly omitted pertinent details from its store signage and television advertising. The plaintiff alleged this advertising program violated New York General Business Law. The plaintiff claimed that there were thousands of members of the class with statutory damages of $50 dollars per customer.  Blockbuster removed the action to federal court on April 1, 2005 asserting diversity jurisdiction under both complete diversity and minimal diversity based on CAFA. The plaintiffs moved for remand on the ground that the federal court lacked jurisdiction because Blockbuster could not satisfy the CAFA amount in controversy of $5 million. Blockbuster filed under seal a declaration by its senior vice president and corporate controller, James Howell. The declaration described the total amount of restocking fees and converted sales incurred by New York customers from January 1, 2005 to May 19, 2005.  Blockbuster also asserted that CAFA changed the traditional rule applied in the complete diversity context, that the party seeking removal to federal court bears the burden of establishing jurisdiction, citing Yeroushalmi v. Blockbuster, Inc., No. 05-225, 2005 WL 2083008 (C.D. Cal. July 11, 2005) (implicitly overruled by Abrego v. Dow Chemical Company). (Editors' Note: See the CAFA Law Blog analysis of Yeroushalmi posted on November 28, 2005 and the CAFA Law Blog analysis of Abrego posted on May 25, 2006).  On July 13, 2005, the district court issued a brief order denying the motion to remand stating “I’m in substantial agreement with [the Yeroushalmi court].” The court did not, however, explain the basis on which it found subject matter jurisdiction.  The plaintiff filed a motion for permission to appeal the district court’s ruling, which the Second Circuit granted. The Second Circuit issued the summary order on March 23, 2006, and vacated and remanded the order of the district court with instructions that the district court explain its calculation of the reasonably probable damages.  On this appeal, the issue before the Second Circuit was which party bears the threshold burden of proof of demonstrating the existence of minimal diversity jurisdiction under CAFA upon removal.  (Editors' Note: To see the CAFA Law Blog view of the issues, see the law review article by CAFA Law Blog Editors Hunter Twiford, Anthony Rollo and John Rouse entitled “CAFA’s New ‘Minimal Diversity’ Standard For Interstate Class Actions Creates A Presumption That Jurisdiction Exists, With The Burden Of Proof Assigned To The Party Opposing Jurisdiction.”).  The court began by outlining CAFA’s new jurisdictional provisions. Next, the court turned to the case at hand to see if the requirements of CAFA were met, but paused first to discuss the burden of proof.  Naturally, the parties took separate sides as to the burden of proof question. Blockbuster pointed to CAFA’s legislative history for the answer. The appeals court stated that the district court was wrong in following the Yeroushalmi case. The Court also cited DiTolla v. Doral Dental, a prior ruling of the Second Circuit holding CAFA did not change the burden of proof. (Editors' Note:  See the CAFA Law Blog analysis of Doral Dental posted on December 28, 2006). The judge conceded that Congress displayed an aim in CAFA to broaden certain aspects of federal jurisdiction for interstate class actions, but that Congress also must have appreciated the law regarding removal as noted in Brill. (Editors' Note:  See the CAFA Law Blog analysis of Brill posted on November 2, 2005).  CAFA’s Senate Judiciary Committee Report was of minimal value to the Court because, it says, the Report was issued ten days after the enactment of CAFA. The court cited Abrego and Miedema for the propositions that Congress has to explicitly overrule precedent and committee reports cannot serve as an independent statutory source. (Editors' Note:  See the CAFA Law Blog analysis of Miedema posted on August 22, 2006.  See also the CAFA Law Blog critique of the Miedema decision posted on August 22, 2006).  The court followed Abrego, Evans, Brill [In that order, the Ninth, Eleventh and Seventh] noting that every circuit court that has considered the issue has reached the same conclusion. (Editors' Note:  See the CAFA Law Blog analysis of Evans posted on May 25, 2006 and the critique of Evans posted on May 26, 2006)] The Court did note that a plaintiff seeking remand bears the burden to show the applicability of CAFA’s abstention exceptions, once the threshold subject matter jurisdiction has been established. (Editors' Note: the court cited Hart, Frazier and Evans for this authority. See the CAFA Law Blog analysis of Hart posted on August 21, 2006 and the analysis of Frazier posted on August 17, 2006).  After the court’s review of the burden of proof standard, the court returned to determine if minimal diversity was met. The named plaintiff was a resident of New York along with thousands of New York customers identified in the complaint. Blockbuster is a citizen of Delaware and Texas. The court quickly determined the minimal diversity of citizenship requirement was met.  Next, as to the $5 million requirement, the Second Circuit determined that the district court had not made any findings and offered no explanation as to how it calculated the amount in controversy. Therefore, the Circuit Court could not properly review the district court’s ruling on the issue. The Second Circuit remanded for the district court to explain its calculation of damages.  (Editors' Note: For a critique of the Second Circuit’s ruling on the burden of proof issue, see our new analysis describing why the Editors believe that Blockbuster and other Courts’ reliance on the publication date of the Senate Judiciary Committee Report as a ground to discredit that Report leads to an incorrect conclusion.  Our new analysis will be posted tomorrow.  Tune in tomorrow.  Same Bat time.  Same Bat channel.) Don't forget.  Please be kind and rewind. 

Download the MP3 file of this posting. Lanier v. Norfolk Southern Corporation, 2006 WL 1878984, No. 1:05-3476-MBS (D.S.C. July 6, 2006) You could almost hear the district judge shout, "All aboard!"  The South Carolina District Court let the defendants ride the CAFA train into federal court, and then derailed the plaintiff’s case on a motion to dismiss, stopping only to address the burden of proof issue.  On July 6, 2006, United States District Judge Margaret B. Seymour issued an opinion and order not only retaining federal court jurisdiction under CAFA, but also dismissing the plaintiffs’ complaint.  The plaintiff filed the action in South Carolina state court on December 9, 2005 seeking to certify a class of individuals who were laid off or discharged from Avondale Mills facilities in Graniteville, South Carolina after a train derailment which released chlorine gas damaged the mill facility. The chlorine gas damaged the property and equipment, and it interrupted production capacity thereby causing a reduction in employment levels. The plaintiffs alleged that the defendants’ negligence resulted in the derailment, subsequent release of chlorine gas, the disruption of the facilities, and the reduction in work force.  The defendants removed the action to federal court pursuant to CAFA.  The plaintiff, wanting off of the train headed to federal court, responded with a motion to remand.  The defendants, wanting to punch the plaintiffs' ticket, also filed a motion to dismiss the plaintiffs' complaint.  Judge Seymour examined each motion in turn.  First, the remand motion focused solely on CAFA. The defendants argued that the burden of proof, under CAFA, shifts to the plaintiff to demonstrate that removal is improvident. The court disagreed and noted that the Seventh Circuit in Brill, the Ninth Circuit in Abrego and the Eleventh Circuit in Miedema had all rejected the argument.  Specifically, the court quoted Miedema for its proposition that “a committee report cannot serve as an independent statutory source having the force of law.” (Editors' Note:  See the CAFA Law Blog's analysis of Brill posted on November 2, 2005, the CAFA Law Blog analysis of Abrego posted on May 25, 2006, the CAFA Law Blog analysis and critique of Miedema posted on August 22, 2005, and a discussion and Law Review article by the Editors that disagrees with these holdings entitled “CAFA’s New Minimal Diversity Standard For Interstate Class Actions Creates A Presumption That Jurisdiction Exists, With The Burden Of Proof Assigned To The Party Opposing Jurisdiction” here).  The Court did find, however, that the defendants carried the burden noting that “once the proponent of jurisdiction has set out the amount in controversy, only a legal certainty that the judgment will be less forecloses federal jurisdiction.” The court also made short work of the minimal diversity requirement holding that the Plaintiff was from South Carolina and the defendants were Virginia corporations. The remand motion was denied. Thereafter, the court granted the defendants’ motion to dismiss on the ground that the plaintiff could not allege a cause of action for negligence on the basis of purely economic loss. The plaintiff was asserting the indirect damages from the train derailment as economic loss. The court held that there were policy reasons that limit tort liability for this exact type of indirect economic loss. Even though the federal court retained jurisdiction, in the same opinion it dismissed the case. 

Herschel and Boss bark about Jake Fromm's departure, the addition of Jamie Newman, and what it all means for the Georgia Bulldogs football team. spk_0:   0:00Welcome to the inaugural edition of The Blawg The Dawgs Podcast. I'm Herschel Gurley. I'm here with my co-host, Boss Dawg - Boss, say hello to the people.spk_1:   0:27Hello and welcome to the inaugural edition and hope you'll will stay with us for this fun journey.spk_0:   0:33Yeah, me as well. So we're glad to be here. Just to kind of set this up. We just want this to be a forum where we can talk about topics that are relevant to UGA football, and all things Dawgs and kind of keep this conversation going, Not only during the season but in the off season. So, I guess it's smart to start with how we came to be fans of the Dawgs or follow the Dawgs. So, Boss, why don't you start with your Georgia genesis story and we'll go from there.spk_1:   1:02So for me, not a UGA alum, just a fan, But, uh, started in the '04 season, you were visiting me at at my alma mater for a clash of our two schools. And after that game was over, we just happened to be watching a Georgia game. We come from smaller college football schools. So, needed a big time college football fix, got interested in it from there and then really took off in Shockley's senior year and really got into it in the '05 season and then kind of went on from there. Been a Dawgs fan ever since. And I bleed red and black.spk_0:   1:39Highs and lows in that journey.spk_1:   1:41Yes, very much so.spk_0:   1:43I think everybody can appreciate that. So for me, similar, we both went to I-AA football program schools. So you kind of need a main attraction on Saturdays. I went to visit some friends in Athens and strictly went to party. Just happened to be the Auburn-Georgia game. Auburn team that had Jason Campbell and Cadillac and that whole crew. And it was the game Odell Thurman took one like 101 yards to the house, interception return right into the Georgia student section where we were sitting and I've been hooked ever since, man. So, maybe I need to get an Odell Thurman jersey. I feel like I'm selling that short by not rocking that. But that's kind of where it started for me. So yeah, well, we're gonna do what we can to give you the best insight we can from from our point of view. And hopefully everybody enjoys it. We look forward to hearing what you all think as well, So let's start at the top here. Obviously, the big story is Jake decided that he's going to forego his final year of eligibility and head to the NFL. I know from some of our conversations that was not a surprise to you, Boss. Why don't you elaborate on that a littlespk_1:   2:59Just from following the story all year and from listening to everything, talking to other people on forums, and reading everything. I feel like from the beginning of the season, his plan seemed to be that he was gonna go before the season. And I know that a lot of people seem to think that his struggles towards the end of the season were going to lead to him coming back. Unfortunately, his struggles during the season were kind of a genesis of the struggles of the whole offense. The entite offense struggled this season. All Dawgs can admit to that. I don't really feel like anything was going to change with Jake coming back. Could he improve his draft stock? Maybe. But Jake is not going to all of a sudden become a running quarterback. He's not gonna all of a sudden become super athletic. He's not gonna run a 4.4 40. Jake is who he is. He's a super intelligent, accurate passer. Most of the time when he has, you know, his number one available. As you and I have talked about for the person that I can most compare him to for the type of leader, the type of person, the type of quarterback he is, he reminds me the most of Troy Aikman. I know that the Troy Aikman-type quarterback doesn't really fit today's NFL, but that's the type of quarterback that he reminds me of. He throws to a spot, not to a person. He expects his receivers to be in in a certain spot. And that's how Aikman was. Aikman was also notorious for being terrible in bad weather because he had smaller hands. Also had great offensive line, great running game. So that's the type of quarterback he reminds me of.spk_0:   4:47To that point, I would just say, maybe Aikman is remembered differently if he played during the modern offenses of today, right? You know, maybe he looks different in a Sean Payton offense. Or maybe he looks different in a Josh McDaniels offense. Different times, different games.spk_1:   5:03Exactly, exactly, Aikman wasn't, you know, asked to throw the ball, 35 times a game. I don't think Aikman ever threw for more than 22 or 23 touchdowns because he wasn't asked to. He didn't need to for them to win and Jake's not gonna be a day one starter in the NFL, I don't think he's going to be asked to. Nor do I think he should be asked to. I think he needs to go to a place like the Saints, like the Patriots, to develop, but we're getting off topic. Sorry, rambling, but I feel that, you know, it wasn't a big surprise to me. I feel like his plan all along was to go to the league. And I don't feel like his struggles deterred him very much. Because of the things that I said, I don't think he's gonna be able to improve on them by coming back to UGA for a season. I think we would see the same things, his numbers may improve, but I don't think that you're gonna see his big changes. His strengths are still going to be his strengths and his weaknesses are still gonna be his weaknesses.spk_0:   5:54Yeah,  and I think as we talked about a lot over the course of season, I was the exact opposite of you. I was shocked when the news came out. Obviously, it dropped the same day as the Cade Mays stuff. So that was the first news story that kind of popped up on my Twitter feed. But then I saw Jakes announcement and I 'bout fell off my chair. I just, he always struck me as a four-year guy. And maybe I was just being idealistic about that. I just thought based on his trajectory, he just reminded me, in so many ways, of Aaron with wanting to come back, wanting to finish. But I do think there were some things that happened near the end of the year that gave me a little bit of pause. It hasn't really been talked about officially, anything about it. But you just can't convince me that that injury scare during the SEC Championship didn't kind of cloud his mind a little bit and get him thinking, it could happen that quick. And if that does happen, what is the future moving forward? I mean, I certainly agree with you that he's not gonna change his profile any. He's gonna be who he is, which I certainly think he's an NFL quarterback, and I think he will get drafted. Absolutely. But, he obviously got the draft grade he felt comfortable with, the grade he had told himself that was gonna be acceptable for him to leave, and he rolled with it, and I don't think anybody faults him for that. And I think everybody will remember him for what he is and what he was. And that's a Damn Good Dawg. So, obviously we wish Jake the best and he'll be great and we'll keep rooting for him, whatever jersey he ends up being in. But obviously, with him leaving it left a big hole in that quarterback room. And the smoke had been pretty much since the SEC Championship that the coaching staff had been talking with different transfers. And finally, it comes through that Jamie Newman has has signed with the Dawgs, which, if you follow college football at large, you know he played at Wake Forest, in Dave Clawson's offense. They did some big things this year. What are your thoughts on that transfer, Boss? How do you think he's gonna look in a Georgia offense next year?spk_1:   7:51Well, I think he's going to fit what the transition of the offense is going to look like. I think that bringing in this type of quarterback really shows that Kirby is hopefully going to take his imprint off the offense and just let the offense be and, you know, let it evolve into the modern college style. But, boy, as much as I love the '17 team, I feel like for Kirby, the worst thing that happened was maybe getting so close to the title and not winning. And honestly, I think that the worst thing would have been for the evolution of the program would have been if Kirby and the Dawgs would have won the '17 title because the game has moved past that style of football. There's no longer games where you can win throwing for 41 yards a game or throwing a limited amount of passes, such as when Georgia throttled Tennessee in '17 41-0. There just isn't games like that anymore, unless you're playing a lesser opponent. College simply doesn't work that way anymore. You have to be able to throw the ball and you have to go throw the ball downfield. Newman's biggest strength, everybody talks about his legs and how he's gonna bring a running element, Jake could run the ball. Jake, for whatever reason, this year they chose not to run the football, and I think the biggest reason that no one ever talks about. look who was behind Jake this year. As much as everybody talked and raved about Stetson Bennett - I don't think that the coaching staff trusted Stetson enough to let Jake run the football and risk injury. That's just my opinion.spk_0:   9:30The transfer shows that, right? I think their pursuit of transfer options from the portal showed that because if if they had felt confident with Stetson Bennett, then they would have said this is gonna be Stetson's show. We're gonna let him roll and go with it. And I do think it is very telling, 'cause I know folks have talked a lot about, well, what about, you know, D'wan Mathis, which, obviously, with this health situation, I think it's too soon to even consider him for that role. Now, I think maybe he could evolve into that one day. But, they know they don't have a Jake Fromm on that roster who could walk in as a freshman and capably lead that team. And I think it also shows they have urgency with the defense that's gonna come back. And I think that's why they went and got Jamie Newman. I mean, I think Jamie Newman allows them some things that even though he could move, I don't know that Jake was a play extender like Jamie Newman has the opportunity to be. And with all the edge talent they have coming back, whether it be George Pickens or Demetris Robertson or hopefully, you know, a healthy Dominic Blaylock and then all the freshmen that are coming in. You hope that there are some unplanned successes, right, where he moves a little bit, breaks the pocket, and these guys can kind of improvise, and we bust some more plays. It just felt like to me, the offense this year was very stagnant. Not a lot of big explosive plays. And I think that's part of the allure of Jamie Newman is that that could happen. I did see a stat that was really interesting. He had the second best tight window percentage in all of college football behind Joe Burrow, which, I think all Georgia fans are familiar with tight windows for receivers this year. So that was interesting to me, I was I was happy to see that.spk_1:   11:21Another thing that I go back to with the the legs aspect of it is the one thing that does excite me is the fact that the zone read this year was pretty much non-existent for Georgia, mainly because everyone knew that Jake was not gonna tuck it and run. He just wasn't gonna do it, whether it be because of the risk of injury or what have you. Everyone knew he was not going to run the ball. So everyone teed off on the running back every single time. The end crashed every single time. Because next season there will be the threat of the run, I think that this year Georgia will be more confident with the quarterback room. Now you'll still have Stetson Bennett. Hopefully, you'll have a healthy D'wan Mathis. You'll also have the incoming freshman Carson Beck. It'll be a much more competitive quarterback room behind Jamie Newman, as opposed to behind Jake from this past year.spk_0:   12:15Absolutely. I think I think there's some validity to that. I think obviously the hope is that Jamie stays healthy all year and kind of takes the mantle of the starter and runs with it. Obviously, that's what's best for the team and they get some rhythm and they roll, man. So I'm looking forward to seeing it. It makes the spring game, I think, a lot more intriguing because you kind of get to see a new guy. It sort of reminds me of the two spring games with Jake in '17 and then Justin in '18, their first spring games. Kind of getting to see what the new guy looks like and and where all that sits. So that'll be fun. Come mid-April, I'm seeing they're projecting like April 18th for G-Day, even though currently unannounced. But that's the projections, so that'll be great. Hopefully they'll be on ESPN or the SEC Network, everybody can check that out. One final note on Jamie Newman. Boss and I are big fans of this company in Nashville called Seven Six Apparel. Seven Six released a shirt shortly after Jamie's announcement that he was going to be a Dawg that was just the word "Newman" across the front in the Seinfeld TV show font, which I thought was fantastic. And, just a postscript to that, I was listening to Seth Emerson a couple days after that, and he dropped this nugget about Wayne Knight, the guy who played Newman on Seinfeld, is actually a UGA grad. So, love that. He went to Cartersville High School, the same high school that Trevor Lawrence went to and played football there, actually. I think the the marketing department, sports marketing department, with UGA Athletics is really dropping the ball if, for homecoming, they don't have Wayne Knight come on campus and do the coin flip or something like that. That would be an epic picture of Jamie and Seinfeld's Newman standing beside each other holding the game ball, or something like that, would just crack me up.spk_1:   14:00I think that would be a great chance for the fans this year to get a you know, a Newman chant going or something like half the stadium do "New" the other half do "Men." I think that'd be a great chant this year.spk_0:   14:15Yeah, I'm here for that, I'm here for that. All right, we'll transition away from the quarterback. Let's talk about an area that maybe folks don't really highlight, an area that's maybe not as sexy, but certainly there's a couple of big holes there, with Charlie Warner and Eli Wolf leaving after graduation, news came out that the Dawgs added Tre' McKitty from the transfer portal, was the tight end at FSU, which is obviously great, especially with the news of Darnell Washington coming. And they kind of get two big guys that can catch the football out there. What do you think there, well, let's let's just stay with Tre', what do you think Tre's addition could mean to the offense and to the team?spk_1:   14:50Well, Tre's edition also signifies the change in offensive philosophy because he is more of your pass-catching tight end. You know, bring in an Eli Wolf last year, you know, signified more of your status quo. He was more of your run blocking tight end, and Eli Wolf when he came in last year, was PFF's third highest rated run blocking tight end the year before in 2018, of I remember correctly, something like that, he was really high up there. So as tight ends go, when he was at Tennessee, bringing him in meant more of you know he's been brought in as a run blocker. Now, he really contributed as a pass catcher in certain games as well. But I feel that bringing in McKitty really shows that the transition to the different style of offense that Georgia is going to run. McKitty is most famously known for that weird play for Florida State last year, where he would happen to be the unfortunate person that was standing backwards in the formation. Watch this guy's film guys. He is a very, very athletic, tight end. He's like 6'4, 245, can run. He is a mismatch for most linebackers. Unfortunately for Florida State, he just didn't have anyone to throw him the ball. I feel like, you put him with Darnell, and if nothing else, it gives us a veteran player that you know, has played in college football and knows the ropes. That kid, if nothing else, gives Darnell Washington a leader for a year, has another guy there for a year to at least help him in some way. Show him the ropes because Washington is gonna be several thousand miles away from home. You know, learning not only learning in the college game, but learning the college life so that could be a big transition for a kid, especially that far away from home.spk_0:   16:45Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the point about the transition in the offense to more of a pass catching offense. I noticed multiple people say, which is funny - Coach Richt said it when they interviewed him about Tre' McKitty - but the buzz word that tells you that he's not a run blocker, people keep saying he's a "willing run blocker", meaning he's a team guy and will do it if asked to, but that ain't why he's on the roster. Just cause he's a "willing blocker", that doesn't always mean that he's able. So I thought that buzzword's been funny. Willing blocker? Um, yeah, he'll get in your way. He'll take up some space. But he's not gonna be having a lot of pancakes on the stat sheet. I do think your point is, is relevant about the fact that he can catch the football, that he will be a target. I do think one of the undersold stories in the regression of the offense this year was the absence of Isaac Nauta. You know you say what you want about Isaac, but he he was somebody the defense at least had to gameplan for from a vertical perspective, so he could occupy the safety, keep them away from, you know, doubling up on the outside receiver. That is just not something that was there this year. Charlie and Eli did just fine, but I wouldn't call either one of them a vertical threat or somebody you had to really, really game plan for up the seam. And I think that Tre' and Darnell will both provide that. So it may create some windows for open receivers that weren't there, just based on the level of athlete that's gonna be at the position. I think the other thing it does, is it really makes for some intriguing options offensively to try and scheme some guys open because you're gonna have two guys that are, from a roster perspective, tight ends, but may be able to move around and do some things, whether it be crossing routes or quick digs that you just wouldn't otherwise see from a traditional tight end, especially in that SEC build. So, I think it's exciting. It's always good to see guys that have one final bite at the apple, that last transfer year, choose to come play for Georgia. So I'm excited to see what Tre' does, and, uh, you know, hopefully he puts up video game numbers and gets drafted and rolls on. So I'm excited to see that.spk_1:   19:03There's also one other thing about Tre' before we move on. You know, we really have no idea what Georgia has in Fitzpatrick and Goede at this point. And it has come out that Goede is going to play baseball in the spring.   spk_0:   0:00I saw that. spk_1:   19:18So with that happening, he's gonna miss, you know, probably the majority of spring practice, the majority of spring meetings. I mean, that takes out that's what, four months, depending on how far Georgia goes. Hopefully they go to the College World Series. But that takes out another four or five months that he's gonna be away from football. And you know, that's time away that he could be, bulking up and developing as a tight end for Georgia. So that makes this McKinney transfer all the more important for the beginning of the season.spk_0:   19:50Yeah, I will say, postscript on that, I did see a note, some further depth on that. Apparently, he will be with the baseball team until spring practice officially begins, and then he will stay with the football team through the G-Day game, and then he'll go back to the baseball team. But I still think your point is valid because even not being in that regular football mode, whether it be in the lead up to spring practice or post spring practice, you know, I think it matters. I think also to there were some durability concerns with both of them last year. So just the fact that the the tight end room is buttoned up with two guys, and two bigger guys, I think will be great for the composition of the offense and the things that it will allow them to do schematically. So, yeah, that's a great point. So let's finish up with, I just want to talk about the defensive returns because obviously, the lack of success we had keeping people on the offensive side, the inverse occurred on the defensive side with big names that came back. Rat Trap Richie, Richard LeCounte Eric Stokes, Malik Herring and Monty Rice - all big gets to come back, and I feel like it's almost like getting four extra recruits in your class. And guys, you already know what you're getting from them. So, uh, how excited does that make you about the 2020 defense and kind of how things will look on that side of the ball?spk_1:   21:08Well, this defense was going to be stellar without these guys. I mean, just with the talent that was coming back without these four, then you throw in these four and it has a chance to be the best in the country again, points per game. It has a chance to be even better, as Kirby likes to say, havoc plays, you throw in LeCounte coming back, he's now gonna go back, and he's gonna go back into his spot. But he's gonna go into the J. R. Reed role as the leader of the defense. Stokes has really been, since he took over the starting role last year from Tyson, been the best defensive back on the field, and then this gives you three legitimate cornerbacks to just rotate as needed between him, Campbell, and Daniels. Then you throw in Tyrique Stevenson, who is gonna be really hard to keep off the field because any time he's on the field, he's all over the ball.spk_0:   22:11He's a grown man.spk_1:   22:12:ike I really don't know how you keep Tyrique - oh, yeah, he's freak. Monty's gonna be one of your starting inside linebackers, probably with Dean. And if anyone who's not excited about Dean, I don't know what's wrong with you. Like, honestly, I know he didn't flash his freshman year, but I keep going back to Roquan. Roquan wasn't Roquan his freshman year either? I mean, you saw flashes his sophomore year of what that player he could be. I feel like Dean has the instincts that every time he was on the field, you saw them. But he just wasn't physically there because he got hurt the beginning of the year with a high ankle sprain and just wasn't ready. He didn't really fully recover from that until the end of the season, and by that point, Tae, you couldn't take Tae off the field because he was all over the place and he just earned it. And you're not gonna take Monty off the field because he's really your best linebacker. Malik. Every year you keep saying this is the year for Malik and realistically, I mean, this is his last year, so this has to be it. I feel like Malik could have the type of year that Tyler Clark did last year. Tyler Clark was expected his junior year to really have that big year and didn't. But then his senior year, he comes back and he does have a much more productive year. Still not as good a year as everyone expected his junior to be, but a much more productive year. And you fit more into the team mold of what you know he was expected to do. And he had a huge year, boosted his draft stock. I expect the same thing with Malik Herring next year. Another guy that's not on this list that wasn't mentioned, that kinna just goes by the wayside 'cause he got redshirted and kind of got lost in the shuffle, Julian Rochester. I mean, he's our, you know, he really is the only other guy because we have so many new guys. We lost, I think, five guys graduated this year from the defensive line. Him and Malik and Jordan Davis are now the leaders of that defensive line group, and everybody else is pretty much a pup, even though Jordan Davis might be the largest pup I have ever seen. I still feel that, you know, Julian, if even if it's not his play on the field, shows it his leadership and you know hey, this is the right way to do it is gonna be invaluable for the defense.spk_0:   24:38I thought that was a big time chess move by Kirby to I mean, you could tell that was deliberate. I know they kept saying it's because of the ACL, hee's not quite there, and blah blah blah. But come on, man. He looked at the depth chart. He knew that the way things were going what the tea leaves read. So I thought that was, he played that beautifully because the games he did play in were all big games. And then, hey, gets to come in and fill some spots there in the middle and I mean, you know, we say that Julian may just be kind of a contributor type, but we don't know that. e may come out and have a monster year. And to your point about Malik. I do think that's true. I do love me some Malik Herring. I think he could be such a stud. I wonder if, within that defensive scheme, you know, I think so much of Kirby's defense, and I thought this was so interesting about how they were all termed the "No Name Defense" this year. I do think there's something to that. I think Kirby's defense, and I've always thought this, is an assignment defense, It requires guys to play their assignment. I think it's why he has such a a love-hate relationship with Richard LeCounte. It's because he can see the tantalizing talent that Richard has. But he also knows that Richard has to play within the scheme, and I think you saw Richard do that over the back half of the season. And, boy, was it exciting to see. And it's exciting to think about what he'll do next year, and I agree with you. I think he does step into that leadership role that kind of goes out the door with J. R. And while we're talking about J.R., let's just also say, Damn Good Dog. Love me some J. R. Reed. What an addition from the transfer portal. I think he'll be one of those guys that gets remembered more fondly as the years go on. I think Richard has that opportunity. I think his narrative is great, too, because he kind of started the good momentum for Kirby's regime, right? I mean, he was the first recruit to say I believe in this guy and I'm coming and he's an in state guy, wearing the Santa outfit, promising all the Florida wins with Jake. I mean, Richard has the opportunity, if they have a special year next year, I think to really cement himself in Dawgs lore when it comes to a legacy conversation. So that's exciting and yeah, I agree with you. I think these are just additions, right? I think that defense was gonna be a monster next year, regardless, just because it played so many guys last year and was so deep, which I think was was valuable. And I think that'll show in spades next year when they come back, rocking and ready to go. Yeah, So I mean, I'm excited, I think with the additions in the transfer portal with what they've got coming back on defense, I think there's a lot to be optic optimistic about if you're Georgia fan for 2020. There's just, the schedule is tough because it's always tough in the SEC, but it's not that bad. I mean, I told you this last week, if you go through that schedule, outside of having to go to Tuscaloosa, do any of those teams really scare you? Is there a quarterback on that list that you really go, oh, boy, I feel like he might hurt our defense? I mean, I just I don't see it, man. If they can stay healthy, they're gonna be in a really, really good spot moving forward.spk_1:   27:47I agree, I just wish the season wasn't so far away.spk_0:   27:50I know it's terrible. And it's the worst time of the year. I was telling my wife this, and she's like, I don't care. But my baseball team is really bad right now. So it just makes the gap between the end of college football and  the start of college football excruciatingly long. So I am just counting down the days until September 7th in the Benz for them to put that whippin' on UVA. So, yeah, I don't know. You got any closing thoughts today?spk_1:   28:19I do want to make one comment on the Cade Mays transfer. Honestly, you and I have talked about it. Cade Mays for me, both of us really, you know, I'm not upset about him transferring. I'm upset, kind of the same way I was upset about when Fields transferred. Wasn't upset about Fields leaving, just, if you're gonna leave, just leave. Don't drag the university through the mud with it. This whole suit thing with his dad and you know I understand, if you're gonna file suit you have to do it within the two-year statute of limitations. I get that. But you know, this pinky obviously isn't hindering you, but so much, you know, you're able to go hunt and be able to post all these pictures on social media, talking about Kevin, his father, not talking about Cade. Talking about his dad doing all this stuff. You know, obviously losing the tip of your pinky finger is not hindering you but so bad. You really don't need to drag the university through the mud with a public suit. And it is public knowledge for those people out there who think that you know, the university or people are digging for information. It's not hard to find if you're typing Kevin Mays. It pops up on Google, just saying, so that's the only thing I'll say about it. I wish Cade the best in Tennessee. I hope that when the time comes, I hope he does well every other game, except when he plays Georgia. That's really my only opinion on Cade Mays, have nothing against him for wanting to go home and play with his brother.spk_0:   29:45Yeah, I'm right there with you on that. I mean, I think I think you know my thoughts on Cade. I think people that were acting like the sky was falling when it's announced that Cade Mays is leaving, I just kind of think, man, that they've recruited so well at that position, it's just that is not a loss where I feel some deep angst about not having him next year. And you know how him and his family choose to deal with that, that's their business. You know, I certainly have my opinion on it. I would have done it differently, but, you know, to each their own. I'm with you. I hope he has a great career at Tennessee. I hope he goes on and has a great NFL career.  I just hope that they get their butt stomped in when the Dawgs come to town. So that's kind of where I stand on it, yeah, I agree with you. Well, I just wanna say thanks to everybody for listening. Come back and listen with us next week, we're gonna release every Tuesday, give us a follow on the social media accounts. It's just @BlawgTheDawgs. That's Twitter, Instagram, @BlawgTheDawgs. That's A-W-G on Blawg and Dawgs. We will look forward to spending the weeks of the offseason with you and get everybody ready for the 2020 season. Like we'll say every week. Go Dawgs, Sic 'Em.spk_1:   0:00Go Dawgs.  Advertising Inquiries: https://redcircle.com/brandsPrivacy & Opt-Out: https://redcircle.com/privacy