Podcasts about so hannah

Last year marked 200 years since the birth of Anne Bronte and then, well, you know the rest. But the good people at The Bronte Parsonage aren't going to let a global pandemic rob her of a celebration and its exhibition dedicated to Anne is back in business. So Hannah got on the Zoom with events officer Lauren Livesey to chat about why the youngest Bronte is absolutely not "a lesser one", why The Tenant of Wildfell Hall is fiercely feminist, hugely complicated and potentially un-adaptable, and why your age likely affects your feelings about Anne's value. Plus Hannah puts up a spirited defence of Bramwell. She has her reasons. Support this show http://supporter.acast.com/standardissuespodcast. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

In this episode of Art of the Kickstart, we interviewed Hannah Brennen and Mark Coombs, the founders of the Sleepout Curtain. The Sleepout Curtain is a patented, portable OEKO-TEX® 100% blackout curtain that blocks light and installs anywhere for better sleep. Light enough to fold up and take with you anywhere, this curtain is also the first portable blackout curtain that installs on windows in seconds. Learn how Hannah and Mark prepared for the launch of their campaign that, in less than a week, has already raised over $102,000 with the support of more than 800 backers. Topics Discussed and Key Crowdfunding Takeaways The pre-launch campaign planning that allowed Sleepout to raise over 6-figures in less than a week How Hannah and Mark's experiences with insomnia and tech served as the inspiration for the Sleepout Curtain Insight into the Sleepout Curtain prototyping process from testing suction cups to using negative reviews for feedback How the relationship between sleeping in cool, dark environments and melatonin production makes the Sleepout Curtain a great tool for getting a good night's sleep How seeking out mentors positively impacted Hannah and Mark's experience the Sleepout Curtain Advice Hannah and Mark have to offer new entrepreneurs when creating landing pages and utilizing Facebook ads Links The Sleepout Curtain's Kickstarter Campaign The Sleepout Curtain's Website Measure What Matters by John Doerr Trillion Dollar Coach by Eric Schmidt, Jonathan Rosenberg and Alan Eagle Sponsors Art of the Kickstart is honored to be sponsored by The Gadget Flow, a product discovery platform that helps you discover, save, and buy awesome products. The Gadget Flow is the ultimate buyer's guide for cool luxury gadgets and creative gifts. Click here to learn more and list your product - use coupon code ATOKK16 for 20% off! Transcript View this episode's transcript Roy Morejon: Welcome, entrepreneurs and startups, to Art of the Kickstart, the podcast that every entrepreneur needs to listen to before you launch. I'm your host, Roy Morejon, president and founder of Enventys Partners, the world's only turnkey product launch company that has helped over 2,000 innovations successfully raise over $400 million in capital since 2010. Roy Morejon: Each week, I interview a crowdfunding success story, an inspirational entrepreneur, or a business expert in order to help you take your startup to the next level. This show would not be possible without our main sponsor, ProductHype, a 300,000-member crowdfunding media site and newsletter that's generated millions of dollars in sales for over 1,000 top-tier projects since 2017. Check out producthype.co to subscribe to the weekly newsletter. Now let's get on with the show. Roy Morejon: Welcome to another edition of Art of the Kickstart. Today I am super stoked to be speaking with Hannah Brennen and Mark Coombs, the founders of the Sleepout curtain. Today is going to be a special episode, because their campaign is about to launch within the next 24 hours, so you're catching them at a really good time where they've caught up on all their sleep. Just kidding. But they're about to launch, click the button on Kickstarter. So Hannah, Mark, thank you so much for joining us today on Art of the Kickstart. Mark Coombs: Yeah, just a huge privilege to be here, and thank you so much for having us, Roy. Roy Morejon: Well, it's my privilege. So let's dive in. I know I usually begin these interviews talking about the product and all of that, but I think it's important, for this show, to talk about both of your backgrounds and what led you down this entrepreneurial path and led you to be entrepreneurs. So if you would, let's start at the beginning and take it back to the beginnings of how you guys began your entrepreneurial journey together. Mark Coombs: Yeah, for sure. So I can start with that. I've had a couple of careers already in my age.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, MD of Rubber Cheese.Download our free ebook The Ultimate Guide to Doubling Your Visitor NumbersIf you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcastIf you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this episode.Competition ends August  27th 2021. The winner will be contacted via Twitter.Show references:https://cheshire.bewilderwood.co.uk/https://twitter.com/bewilderwoodchrhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/hannah-monteverde-456475aa/Hannah MonteverdeHannah is the Top Banana (aka Park Manager) of the newly opened BeWILDerwood Cheshire site. A 70 acre WILD woodland home to the literary characters from owner and creator Tom Blofeld’s books, the park centres its offering on nostalgic, technology free play. With slides, treehouses, zip wires and rope bridges, alongside daily interactive storytelling and craft sessions it is a full family day out for families with children between the ages of 2-12. Leading the management team and ensuring that visitors have the best day, along with the commercial success and strategic development of the business are Hannah’s key focuses.Starting out as a seasonal staff member at BeWILDerwood Norfolk in 2012, Hannah swiftly worked her way up through the organisation taking various operational roles with progressive levels of responsibility to see her become the Deputy General Manager of the BeWILDerwood Norfolk site in 2018. Shortly after this the opportunity arose for Hannah to become Top Banana, relocate to Cheshire and lead the operational setup and opening of the second BeWILDerwood site based in the North West. This has been Hannah’s primary focus for the past 18 months.The site opened to national acclaim in April 2021 and continues to be a resounding success, with a sell out season likely ahead.Hannah is passionate about demonstrating a positive working and parenting life balance to her three year old daughter and when not running WILD at BeWILDerwood enjoys spending time adventuring with her family outdoors, listening to live music, and devouring full books in just one sitting. Transcription:Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. Each episode, I speak with industry experts from the attractions world. These chats are fun, informative and hopefully, always interesting. In today's episode, I speak with Hannah Monteverde, Top Banana, aka Park Manager, at BeWILDerwood in Cheshire. We discuss how the pandemic impacted the opening of BeWILDerwood Cheshire and all of the learnings that have come from that happening. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue. Kelly Molson: Hannah, thank you for coming on the podcast today. I'm really excited to have you on. Hannah Monteverde: Thank you. I am excited to be here. Kelly Molson: Good. I know how busy you've been the last couple of weeks as well, which we'll get to in a minute. I am really grateful of the time that you've been able to give us today. Kelly Molson: As ever though, we are going to start the podcast with our icebreaker questions. So Hannah and I had a little chat a few weeks ago, a little pre-podcast interview chat just to see what we could talk about and how we got on. We discovered that we're both big fans of rising up other women, and girl power and all that schiz. So I want to know, who is your favourite Spice Girl and why? Hannah Monteverde: Oh, do you know what? I'm going to throw a curveball right at the beginning. Kelly Molson: Is this going to be an unpopular opinion? Hannah Monteverde: Well, it's not my unpopular opinion but it may well be. I wasn't a Spice Girls girl. Kelly Molson: What? Hannah Monteverde: It was all about Bewitched for me, I'm afraid. Kelly Molson: Double denim. Hannah Monteverde: Okay, let me think about the Spice Girls. I think, if I had to pick a favourite, it's got to be Sporty Spice, I think.Kelly Molson: Yeah, she rocks. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Yeah. Kelly Molson: She rocks. All right, okay. Hannah Monteverde: Sorry about that. Kelly Molson: No, that's okay. But, I want to delve a little bit deeper into the whole Bewitched. Hannah Monteverde: Oh, gosh. Kelly Molson: What was it about Bewitched? Was it the outfits? Was it the Irish dancing? Hannah Monteverde: I don't know. I think it was a bit of both. I can't remember the name of their first album, but it had that little orange cover. I must have probably been about, I don't know, I was probably far too old to admit, probably about 11. You know, they were all jumping on the cover and looking like they're having the best time. I wanted to be one of them. Kelly Molson: If it came on the radio now though, I would definitely get up and dance, wouldn't you? Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Yeah, and you know all the words. Of course. Kelly Molson: For sure. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Kelly Molson: All right, I'll let you off the Spice Girls just because of that little glorious nugget of information.Kelly Molson: What is the top of your bucket list? Hannah Monteverde: Oh. I think a trip around Iceland in a camper van. Kelly Molson: Oh yeah. Hannah Monteverde: We always said we were going to go to Iceland on honeymoon, and we got married nearly five years ago now and somehow, we've still not managed to do that. I think yeah, that. Or, New Zealand I think. Really back to basics, nothing fancy. No fancy hotels or anything, just being able to drive where you want, and park up where you want and enjoy that, I think. Kelly Molson: That whole idea of just opening your camper van doors and being in the middle of nowhere, sounds incredibly enticing right now, doesn't it? Hannah Monteverde: Absolutely. Yeah, right now. Kelly Molson: Okay. Last one. What's your favourite movie quote? Hannah Monteverde: Oh no, this is one of the ones that we said if you ask me this question I will not have an answer. Because the only thing I can think of is, "I'll be back," from Terminator and I've never even seen that film.Kelly Molson: I'll take that as your favourite quote, despite you never watched it. That's fine. Hannah Monteverde: Oh no, it couldn't have gone worse. My husband said in the car, he said, "Oh, do you know any quotes from Chalet Girl, because that's your favourite film isn't it?" If you've not seen Chalet Girl, then that's a can of worms to open up. I can't even remember any quotes from that. Kelly Molson: Oh gosh. Sorry listeners, Hannah, she even tried to prep for the icebreaker questions. I just caught her out with a curveball there. Kelly Molson: All right, let's park that then. What's your unpopular opinion? Hannah Monteverde: Okay, now this, if any of my colleagues ever listen to this podcast, which I'm undecided whether I'm going to tell them about or not, this is not going to go down very well with them. Houseplants are overrated. Kelly Molson: Oh.Hannah Monteverde: I just can't get behind a houseplant. Kelly Molson: Is it because you can't keep them alive? Hannah Monteverde: Partly, I think. I think if I tried, I could keep them alive. But, I think I much prefer if someone buys you flowers, they're bright and they last for a few weeks if you're lucky. And then, they're done. As you say, a houseplant you've got to look after it. Kelly Molson: A responsibility. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Someone was telling me the other day, actually, I think. You know when you buy a nice peace lily or something, and it's got lovely flowers? It only flowers because they put loads of hormones in it before you buy it. So you think, "Oh, that looks lovely." And then, we've got a peace lily which sat at home, which we've had for years, which we can't kill no matter how hard we try, but it's never flowered again so it's just left. Kelly Molson: Oh. I didn't know that. I don't think I've ever had a peace lily. I 100% would have killed it because this mantelpiece was full of houseplants, which I then promptly killed every single one of. I'm kind of with you on that. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Kelly Molson: Faux houseplants, all the way. Hannah Monteverde: Maybe that's the way to go. Yeah, we recently moved and my sister, she was really kind and she sent us a houseplant from Norwich where she lives, it came in the post. That was really exciting because sending plants in the post. But I have to say, I can probably count on my hand the amount of times I've watered it since we've had it, so that's not going to last very long. But yeah, houseplants are overrated. Sorry, everybody. Kelly Molson: I like that. Good unpopular opinion. We've not had that one, either. It's a fresh take on it.Kelly Molson: Right. Okay, let's get into our questions. Hannah, how did you get to be the top banana, aka park manager, at BeWILDerwood in Cheshire? Tell us about your career. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Well, I don't tell this story that often to be honest, but I quite often tell this story as if it's an unorthodox story and it's unique. But actually, I think when I was thinking about this in prep, it's probably fairly common within the industry. Hannah Monteverde: My career within the attractions industry sits with BeWILDerwood and BeWILDerwood alone. When I graduated uni in 2011, I think, I started working at BeWILDerwood, just picking up seasonal work because I needed something to tide me over until I found a real, proper job. I did that for a couple of years, and then I went and I trained to become a teacher, that was going to be my proper, serious job. I was going to have a career, and I was going to be a teacher.Hannah Monteverde: That lasted about six months before I unceremoniously dumped that. It didn't work out well for my mental health, and there were some things I found more important. And, I knew that I enjoyed working at BeWILDerwood. So I think it was March 2014, I went grovelling back to the ops manager at the time. I was like, "This hasn't worked out. Have you got any seasonal work going?" They had me back, thankfully, and I just came back and I started working seasonally again. I loved it and I didn't really want to leave. I was at a bit of a point where I was like, "Well, I might as well do what makes me happy." Hannah Monteverde: I guess, the rest of it almost, in a sense, it's a series of happy accidents and, I guess, being in the right place at the right time. I was working front of house, letting people into the park, making sure that everyone was having fun, having the best day ever. And then, I progressed from that into a site supervisor role, so that's what we call our duty managers. So taking care of the site on a day-to-day basis, making sure that all our visitors are happy, dealing with any queries, any issues, all that kind of stuff. And then from there, I moved upwards into the operations manager position, I spent quite a few years doing that. And loving that actually, it's where I first started managing staff and things. We've got quite a big team of seasonal staff. This was in Norfolk at the time, so it was managing up to about 100 people in a season, which was great fun and I really used to enjoy it. Hannah Monteverde: I then, somehow, luckiest catch of all I think, I managed to land a promotion to the deputy general manager whilst I was on maternity leave. Not really sure how that happened. Kelly Molson: Nice work. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Go and have a baby, and then come back as a deputy general manager, which was great. It was then, that must have been about 2018, it was then when the talk of Cheshire first started to become a thing and started to become something that we could almost believe. It had been going around the houses for a little while, and there'd been rumours about Cheshire. We always knew that we wanted to open a second park, and by that point, it was at a point where it was becoming real, and things were getting put in the ground and we got planning permission. We could really believe that it was going to happen. Hannah Monteverde: I remember I was having chats with Ben, our General Manager, around that time. He was saying, "You know if that's where you want your career to go if that's something you want to do, have a think about it. Maybe if you try this deputy general management position for a year, we'll see how it goes. We'll give you the opportunity to have a crack a running a park for a year," which was fantastic. It was the most amazing opportunity. I had his support, literally right there, but he allowed me to do my own thing and run the park. Hannah Monteverde: And then, moving on from there, that in essence, as I said, my trial run for a year. Obviously, didn't do too bad a job because they asked if we wanted to come up to Cheshire and run the park here. Which of course, I would have been mad to say no. We moved up here in December 2019. Yeah, December 2019. Obviously, I'm sure we'll talk in a bit about the curve balls that last year and things have thrown at us. But, the plan was to move up here, December 2019, and work with Ben to set up the park operationally, and then moving forward, run the park as top banana/park manager. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah, that's me. We often say that I'm the poster girl for that, within BeWILDerwood. That I'm the one that started out as part of the Twiggle Team, as part of our seasonal staff, and then have worked my way up through the company. Which is lovely, and it's everyone. No, I don't think everybody would want to be a poster girl. But, what I think is even lovelier with BeWILDerwood, and with the company, is that that's not unique, it's not just me as said poster girl who done that. Hannah Monteverde: So whilst there aren't lots of people running BeWILDerwoods around the country because we've only got two, there are lots of people especially in Norfolk, in management positions who have started out as part of the Twiggle Team and then have made their way up through the company. So our marketing manager, she was part of the Twiggle Team. Our operations manager in Norfolk now, and the assistant operations manager, they've all come from working within the Twiggle Team. Which is something that I think is so important, and it's really important, I think for me as well, setting up Cheshire, and setting up the ops team and things here, is that we champion that, giving people the opportunities to grow and to develop.Hannah Monteverde: And I know, speaking about me and from my experience, it probably would have been far easier for them to appoint an experienced general manager who had all these whistles and bows, and feathers in his hat to come and run the park. But actually, being able to send someone from Norfolk who got the knowledge and the understanding of what BeWILDerwood is, both as a brand and as a business, I think especially given everything that's happened this year, it's been so beneficial, that we can be able to bring that brand to a brand new audience. And yeah, it's been massively challenging and it's been an amazing learning curve for me. I've done so many things that I probably wouldn't have been able to do anywhere else. Yeah, that's what makes it fun, isn't it? All those challenges and things. Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. Hannah Monteverde: That's where I'm at. Kelly Molson: That's where I want to pick up the story. I'm going to come back to this in a minute, because there's a couple of questions I want to speak to you about, around that topic of being the poster girl, like you said. I think the more attractions that I speak to, the more I see that the organizations themselves are really keen to bring people on, almost like from a grassroots level. They're really keen to have people that progress and move their careers on through that organisation. They've had real hands-on experience of every kind of level of engaging with the guests, like you say, being a Twiggle from that level there. And then moving up through marketing, and management, and et cetera. I think that's a really fantastic thing for attractions to be able to do. Kelly Molson: But, you mentioned poster girl. One of the things that I've been looking at recently is trying to keep the diversity of the guests that come onto the show quite even. I find that quite difficult because it seems to me, there's still a bit of a dis-balance around men and women in the sector. I wanted to ask you, do you think that there's a little bit of a lack of women at that senior level in attractions? Is there anything that can be done about that? It seems like BeWILDerwood is doing really great things, in terms of moving people through their organisation, from promoting inside. But, are there any things that you've been involved in that you could see as a real positive benefit to women in the industry? Hannah Monteverde: That's a really interesting question. I don't know if we break the mould in that, actually, within BeWILDerwood, we are predominantly female managed and run. At the board level, which perhaps maybe is a different subject and a different conversation probably for a different day. At the board level it's different and I don't know that's reflected elsewhere, and whether that's unique or not. But, I would say and from my, obviously as I said, BeWILDerwood is my attractions life, so my very limited experience, I think either we break the mould or no, actually we don't. I don't see a lack of women in senior leadership roles. Hannah Monteverde: I think, obviously, it's a really big conversation at the moment, and it's a conversation that I need to educate myself further in. Because I don't think I understand enough, or know enough, about women and diversity within leadership. I think it's really important as well to remember that, I guess, in a sense, that the glass ceiling isn't just women. I guess, in a way, it's anyone who's not straight, male or white, probably. It's encouraging the ... As you said, I think the diversity that we have within our society should be reflected within our workplaces, and within leadership and at every level. But yeah, it's something that I think I need to go away and do some more work on, and more understanding and more research to be able to speak about it eloquently. But yeah, it's definitely something. Hannah Monteverde: I think it's a conversation that is being had, which is great. We need more of that, we need more of the gender pay gap reporting, and the championing flexible working and all of that kind of thing. But, I think it's important that it's not just women, it is anybody. It's making sure that diversity is represented and society is represented. Kelly Molson: Absolutely. Hannah Monteverde: If that makes sense? Kelly Molson: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, it absolutely does. I've been thinking about actually running a panel session on this, and bringing that to the forefront of some of the things that we talk about as well.Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. I think, for me actually, one thing because I don't know, from my limited experience, it doesn't seem to me that way. But actually, if that's not the case then for me, it would be really interesting to speak to other people and find out whether what we're like is reflective of other places and things.Kelly Molson: Absolutely. Well, let's carry this conversation on further. Hannah Monteverde: Lets. Kelly Molson: But for now, I would like to go back to December 2019. You've left your life in Norwich, you've moved to Cheshire, it's Christmas time, you've got a young family at home. And, you're just about to start possibly the most exciting part of your career so far. And then, we get whacked with the Coronavirus. Hannah Monteverde: The Rona. Kelly Molson: The Rona comes and smacks us on the ass. Tell us about what's happened, because I think the attraction was due to originally open last ... Was it May time, March time last year? Hannah Monteverde: May 23rd, 2020, was the big date. As Tom's been saying, Tom Blofeld, the guy that owns BeWILDerwood, has been saying recently in lots of his interviews and things, what I've heard him saying, "We couldn't have possibly picked a worse date," and he's so true. May 23rd, 2020, was when it was going to be. We, as you rightfully said, we moved up to Cheshire in December 2019. That was lovely. There I was bright-eyed, bushy-tailed, ready to build the team. We're going to open BeWILDerwood Cheshire, it's going to be wonderful. Hannah Monteverde: And it was great, it was great for the first few months. We started building the team, we got the managers in, we got our maintenance guys in. Everything started progressing and ticking along, we were making all those big, long lists about what we still needed to do, working with the contractor and things, all going for this May 23rd date. We just announced to the public and to all our wonderful visitors that we were going to open on the 23rd May 2020. We had all the graphics and things designed, we put the leaflets out to print. Hannah Monteverde: I will always remember, it must have been the middle of March. Obviously, we were all starting to talk about Coronavirus by this point, and I noticed ... I'm a member of the Visitor Experience Forum on LinkedIn, so I noticed they were doing, I think it was a [inaudible 00:17:48] they called around COVID-19. I thought, "Oh yeah, this will be a nice trip out of the office. I'll get the train down to London, and I'll go and meet some other people and we'll talk about this Coronavirus thing. And maybe, we'll talk about how we might have to close our attractions for a week or two, and that will be a shame. But, it'll be a nice rest for us all." Hannah Monteverde: There I go, down on the train, really excited, a nice trip out. I remember sitting in this room, and I think it was Phil Donahue was just ... I just felt like a balloon being slowly deflated across the course of the morning. I remember sitting on the train on the way back, typing up my notes, and messaging people like, "Oh, Lordy." Kelly Molson: Oh my gosh.Hannah Monteverde: "This is a big deal." Yeah. Obviously, there were elements. I was probably over naïve and over-excited about what we were doing. Yeah, quickly after that, I guess it was probably the week or so after that, everyone was told to work from home. We sent our minimal, I think there was probably about five or six of us in the office by that point, so we sent them home. We kept our maintenance guys on. But then, within a week or two of that, it became very apparent very quickly that actually, we wouldn't be opening in May. Hannah Monteverde: Initially, what we did, we initially decided to delay it until July. And then, I think as lockdown progressed and proceeded, and there was no end to it, again very quickly, we didn't have to take long to make the decisions which was quite a nice thing, in a sense. We made decisions quickly, we made the right decisions, and we made sure that we kept the guys informed. But yeah, very quickly it became apparent that July actually wouldn't be achievable, because, by the time we came back out of lockdown, we'd have to get people back into the office. We'd have to start out from where we left off. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah, July 2020, then, very quickly became spring 2021. But, we have opened, so we are now open which is brilliant. Yeah, it was all together a rather strange few months for me, especially I think. Kelly Molson: I can imagine how life-changing that was as well because you've done a big step in moving to a different area and having to establish yourself there in a personal sense. And then, you're establishing yourself in a new role in a new place, and you're building a new team around you as well. That must have been pretty horrendous, right? You would have had to have recruited, ready for the opening. And then what happens? Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. I just feel like, almost in a sense, like the whole of my last 18 months have felt like a recruitment Groundhog Day. It's awful to say that because it felt like it was never-ending. And the poor people who are on the other ends of the sticks, it was far worse for them, they had the worse end of the stick. Hannah Monteverde: But yeah, much of last year for me, and also remembering that I was coming into this with a huge amount to learn anyway ... So much of last year was, in a nutshell, it was just a masterclass in management skills, and techniques that you really wish that you don't ever have to use. So really, unfortunately for us, while I had the horrible task of having to let go all those people that we had recruited because unfortunately, the way that the furlough scheme cut off, we just got people in within weeks. So that within weeks of that deadline, so we couldn't furlough anyone. It was a case of we need to save this business, there were really worrying points last year.Hannah Monteverde: Yeah, in about May I think, we had to let the team go. We did keep them on for as long as we could, keep supporting them and things, but we did have to let them go. And then, from May to January last year, it was me and a couple of Boggle Builders, our maintenance team that we kept on to caretake the site. Thankfully, I wasn't completely on my own. We did keep coming into the office, they obviously had work that they needed to do around the site and things. Yeah, it's a 70-acre site so it did feel a bit strange with just the three of us rattling around. I did learn some skills in how to use a jigsaw and stuff.Kelly Molson: Good life skills to have. Hannah Monteverde: Exactly, something to add to my CV. But yeah, and for myself, I was really lucky, in a sense, that once lockdown eased, because we are BeWILDerwood, we are one company, I was able to go back down to Norfolk and help support the guys in Norfolk with their reopening. And then, I actually ended up helping them put together their COVID secure Lantern Parade that they put on for October half-term, so that was really nice. For me personally, it was really lovely to actually be able to go back somewhere and feel like I was part of a team, not three people rattling around somewhere. Yeah, I think I probably would have lost my mind a bit if I didn't manage to do that. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. I guess, in a sense, thinking about the positives, there are positives that have come out of it. I managed to spend time on, in a sense, the more paperwork-y side of stuff. So managing to get all the health and safety things all ticked off and out of the way whilst it was quiet in the summer, and you didn't have loads of stuff running around and happening. But yeah, as I said, it felt like Groundhog Day of recruitment. Yeah, 18 months of recruiting people and then letting people go, and then re-recruiting people. Hannah Monteverde: What was lovely actually, though, is that we had ... I was going to try and work out the percentage, but I ran out of time. We had a huge percentage of the people that we let go in May came back. Kelly Molson: Oh, that's fabulous. Hannah Monteverde: Obviously, we kept them in the loop and things. I quite enjoyed going around taking pictures and being able to send people updates of what was going on around the site. It was so nice. Yeah, we'd obviously recruited a bunch of people who shared the passion for what we were doing. And after everything, for them to say, "I want to come back, I still want to work with you," that was lovely. It was really nice. Kelly Molson: That's testament to how you obviously managed that process, in terms of keeping in touch with them, and the empathy that you showed them with the situation that you were in. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah, I hope so. It was tough. It was really tough. But yeah, as you say, it was so nice that they'd come back. And actually, now that we have finally opened, that they have all got to be involved in it. I imagine last May, everyone that thoughts of, "Is this place ever going to open?" And to now be sat here, having actually opened it. I think if someone had said to me last July, "Do you reckon you'll be sat there next April with a park that has opened to resounding success?," I would have confidently been able to say yes, so that's nice. Kelly Molson: Wow. Yeah, that is really nice. What's it been like? What's the response been like from the general public? Hannah Monteverde: Do you know what, it's been absolutely phenomenal. It's been so amazing to open. For one, the weather was absolutely perfect for the whole week. Obviously, as you can imagine, we are an outdoor attraction so we are quite a weather dependant. There's so much fun to be had in the rain, but people don't often understand that. But yeah, to have a week of amazing sunshine and really warmish weather was perfect, that's absolutely perfect for us. And then, just to see people in the park, it was the cherry on top of the cake that everybody loved it, because everybody did love it, which was amazing. Hannah Monteverde: But, to see people running around the park that you've spent so long working on. The weirdest thing was it was seeing people using the park, and I turned and said to someone on day one, I was like, "This feels so normal." But yet, yesterday I was running around like a headless chicken with a screwdriver, putting signs on things. For the past three years, this is what we've been working towards. And all of a sudden, you fill it with people and it just felt normal. Kelly Molson: Yeah. Hannah Monteverde: I mean, don't get me wrong, there are plenty of things that we need to work on. I always say to the team, for us, it wasn't going to be perfect when we opened it. If we did feel like it was perfect, then we'd probably done something wrong. We've got lists and list of things that we want to improve and things that we want to change. But, to see visitors playing in the park, and enjoying the park, and seeing the feedback that we got from the visitors, it was just the best thing, to be honest.Kelly Molson: Ah, that's incredible. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Yeah, it was. I think we were mindful, and I was always a bit mindful, that we've moved to a new area, it's quite a niche concept. It's really hard to explain without being able to see what BeWILDerwood is. But, to have visitor reviews that are saying things like how amazing the staff are, to sit there and read that, and things saying how brilliant the facilities are, and how much fun they've had. Yeah, I can't lie, it was brilliant. It was such a relief and just so lovely to ... Yeah, it was great. Kelly Molson: What a massive morale boost for the team as well. To have gone through so much in that year, especially for those poor people that have been made redundant, and then they've come back, and now they're in the thick of it, that must be just music to their ears right now. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah, absolutely. The past couple of weeks before we opened, I think they must think I'm completely mad, we ended up doing these stupid Monday motivational meetings. Where we'd all get together at nine o'clock on a Monday morning and I'd say something stupid and irritate them all, probably, with some silly little motivational saying or something. But, one thing that I really believe in, and I have to tell myself to do it as well sometimes, but I was saying to them in the weeks before, "Remember when we open to take a step back and just watch and see what people do. And, to take a step back and think about everything that you have done, and just think about that impact that's had on everyone else."Hannah Monteverde: It's so easy to get lost in what you're doing in the day-to-day, and the grind, and how many hours you're putting in, and how much hard work you're putting in. Because everyone has worked phenomenally hard, and it's not just the guys in Cheshire as well, it's the guys in Norfolk, too. As I said before, we are BeWILDerwood, one team, and that's true. The guys in Norfolk, they also reopened on the 12th. But, the effort that they also put into helping us get open in Cheshire, even though, in a sense, when we had our team up here start, we couldn't travel down to Norfolk and get them to see the site. Hannah Monteverde: That was initially the plan. In a sense, I would induct them into the company, and we'd do our Cheshire induction up here. And then, the first thing that they would all do would be to go down to Norfolk, and to meet their counterparts in Norfolk, and see the sight in Norfolk, and understand what BeWILDerwood is and how it works. When you're in lockdown, you can't do that. Yeah. We had fun trying to think up ways we could get people talking to each other remotely and to get people to understand the brand and things.Kelly Molson: How did you do that? That would be interesting. Because that's great isn't it, just the fact that you'd been able to send people and shadow them. "This is your role in this park, this is what you'll be doing." But, how did you do that virtually? Hannah Monteverde: Everyone came into the office, and we put loads of stuff in place to make it COVID secure and things. In a sense, up here, we did our induction like that. Again, I played some really silly motivational games, which I'm sure they probably all hated. We had Two Truths and a Lie, and I got them all to send them in in advance and found out really interesting things about people, which is quite funny. Kelly Molson: We should disclose some of those on the podcast. That'd be better than the unpopular opinion.Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. And then, I guess in a sense, it was working remotely so used quite a lot of Microsoft Teams and things, and making sure that we're checking in and chatting to people. And doing it like we're doing now, so face-to-face over a video call. I, a year ago, would never have imagined that I would be on a webcam with headsets talking to be people because it was my worst nightmare. Getting people to embrace that. And then, I think we even did silly things as full teams. I remember we did a show-and-tell activity or something, we got everyone to bring in something that was personal to them, and then we all stood in front of a camera and talked to each other for half an hour. Hannah Monteverde: I think this year has proven that there is so much that can be done remotely. But, I also think it has also proven that there is so much that can't be done remotely. There are bits and pieces that we want to pick up now that we can travel, and now that we are open and things. It's really important, before May half-term and the summer, that we get our guys down to Norfolk so they can understand where BeWILDerwood comes from and exactly what it is because that's going to be so much more beneficial to them than a load of waffle and a load of words from me, trying to explain it because it's really hard to explain.Kelly Molson: I still want to pronounce it BeWILDerwood as well. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Kelly Molson: I want to shout the wild bit. I know I pronounced it wrong earlier in the podcast. Hannah Monteverde: We get people asking. My dad asked this weekend. I've worked at BeWILDerwood for nine years, so if my dad can't pick it up in nine years then ...Kelly Molson: I'm all right, let me off. Hannah Monteverde: I'll let you off just this once. Kelly Molson: Okay. It's a phenomenal story. I can't even begin to imagine how tough the last year must have been for you, with everything that you've got going on. Not just the effects of the Coronavirus and having to not open the attraction, but having moved to a new area as well. And suddenly, being in lockdown with a young family. That must have been so overwhelming for you. I think it's so lovely to hear such an incredibly positive story come from something like that. Kelly Molson: I wonder if you could share with us ... You started off this podcast by saying I'm going into this new role, and there was a load of things that were still new and learning for me. You've really had-Hannah Monteverde: I've had no choice. Kelly Molson: You've really been dropped into the deep end, haven't you? If you can cope with last year, you've peaked. You can cope with anything now. Hannah Monteverde: I hope I've not peaked. I hope I just keep going that way. Kelly Molson: There's more to come. Okay. Hannah Monteverde: I hope so. Kelly Molson: What do you that's been your biggest professional and personal learning from last year? Hannah Monteverde: I think personally is easier to understand. Obviously, I've had a chance to think about these. At one point, I have learned personally that I am certainly not a hobbyist. I'm not a person for hobbies. I love the idea of a hobby, and I go all in and I buy everything I need to start it. So I buy the knitting needles, and I buy the wool, and I buy a pattern and I'm going to knit something really lovely. And I get two days in and I'm like, "God, this is boring." Kelly Molson: Can you tell us what you've tried? Have you tried knitting? List the things. Hannah Monteverde: I've got a half-knitted cardigan. Kelly Molson: Excellent.Hannah Monteverde: Now to be honest, with knitting I did manage to knit Lyra, my daughter, a jumper. She's three, so I've knitted a three-year-old's jumper. But then I was like, "Right, now's the chance to do something for me. I'm going to knit myself a cardigan." I've knitted half of aside, so I've done that. Hannah Monteverde: We had a sourdough starter for a while. Kelly Molson: Excellent. That's a standard Coronavirus necessity, I'll be. Yeah. Hannah Monteverde: Then, that went moldy. Actually, I'd probably say I've got two true hobbies, which are probably reading and running. But reading, this year, the reading hobby has turned into a buying books hobby. I don't read any, they just sit. I've got a really nice pile of books. Kelly Molson: They look beautiful. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. I am trying really hard though, actually, to read more because that's good for me.Hannah Monteverde: What else have I tried? Oh. I can't think of anything else off the top of my head. I've definitely tried a fair few. Podcasting, I've tried to listen to podcasts. I listen to a few, and then six weeks later I'll say, "Oh yeah, I was listening to that podcast." Kelly Molson: But you've been listening to this one. Hannah Monteverde: Of course. Yeah. Kelly Molson: Now that you're a guest on it. Oh God, that's all good. Hannah Monteverde: No, I had to do my research on this one. Of course, I listened to this. Hannah Monteverde: What else have I done? I can't think. Lots of things, I'm definitely a really faddy person. Oh, I probably buy a diary every year, and I get as far as writing my address in it. That's about as far as it goes. Kelly Molson: But, it's good. I think that's a good thing to learn about yourself. Hobbyist, no, but there are other things that you can focus your time on. Hannah Monteverde: No. And then, I think more seriously, in a post-COVID, had quite a fair amount of time to reflect, and think about myself and things. I think one thing from this year, personally, that's resonated with me quite a lot is in a sense that not comparing your feelings to others, I think. And, not trying to rationalize or justify your feelings with others. Hannah Monteverde: We've been enormously lucky this year, as a family, and my friends. We've not suffered enormous emotional or financial suffering. But at the same time, we've all had our struggles. I think this years' been difficult for everyone and difficult for everyone for all sorts of different reasons. I think it's really easy, and I found it really easy this past year, to try and diminish your own feelings by looking at someone else and saying, "Well, you're not struggling as much as them, so it's not okay for you to struggle." Hannah Monteverde: I think for myself, personally, I've tried really hard, especially in the past few months, to not compare myself to others. If you're feeling those feelings, you're feeling those feelings. Just because person X has got more going on, or maybe feels different about the same thing, that doesn't diminish your feelings or make your feelings any less feeling-y. Kelly Molson: Yeah.Hannah Monteverde: Do you know what I mean? Kelly Molson: It's that validity, isn't it?Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Kelly Molson: If someone is having a really, really difficult time, and you can see they're clearly going through it, it doesn't make your feelings of, "Well, I feel really challenged by the things that I'm going through," and they're minuscule in comparison but they're still valid. Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Kelly Molson: You can feel okay to feel like that.Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. I think for me, that's the biggest thing for me personally. I think that's something that I think will continue to work on, in a sense. Hannah Monteverde: I think professionally, as you said, if I was to try and stop and think about what I've learned this year, I don't think I could even scratch the surface. I have learned so much, and it has been unique and exciting, and it's been an amazing opportunity. There are so many ways I can turn everything into a positive, all the things I've had the chance to learn, the chance to do, the chance to jump feet-first in and give it a go. And, the things that I've been thrown in the deep end and have just had to get on with. The amount of learning I've got out of those challenges, I will forever be grateful for, I think.Hannah Monteverde: It's been a massive rollercoaster. There have been some really, really high, high points. But at the same time, there have also been some really worrying low points, at the same time. I think the two things I came back with when I was thinking about it, is it's learning to adapt, which is something I've never been great at. I've always been a lists person, and I've always been a planner. Hannah Monteverde: When I was in the ops role in Norfolk, we always used to jest at me when we got to. We shut over winter, so we shut from November to February. Everyone used to have a laugh at me. In the first couple weeks of the winter, I would literally print out 10 weeks of weekly planners, and I would plan my winter. It didn't always go to plan, but just by doing that exercise, I would sit there. I'd be like, "Right, okay. On this day, I'm going to look at the staffing. And we're going to do this, this, and this." That's just how my brain works. Hannah Monteverde: But, I've had to learn this year that, when things change, and they change again, and they change again, you just have to be able to adapt. You have to be able to think fast on your feet, and you have to be able to make decisions. Sometimes, they have to be quick decisions. But if you can justify them, and make everyone aware of why those decisions are being made even if they're tricky ones, I think people appreciate that. Yeah, being able to adapt was one. Hannah Monteverde: And then, I think the other thing that I've learned about myself is that there is nothing I love more than a challenge. And, that despite everything that's gone on, there is nothing that beats the feeling of having to work to a hard deadline, and getting there, and achieving it. I know we quite often joke, every day's a school day and there are new challenges every day, but for me, I think that's really important. I thrive off being able to learn and being to grow and develop, and I think I've probably done a certain amount of that this year and I really enjoyed it. Kelly Molson: Good. I think that's a huge positive to take from it and I completely agree with you. I think there would be a lot of our listeners, and myself included, that would say that that's probably the biggest thing that they've learned about themselves this year as well. Kelly Molson: What's next, then? What's next for BeWILDerwood Cheshire? And, what's the next big challenge that you've got? What exciting things have you got coming up this summer? Hannah Monteverde: I think what's next for BeWILDerwood Cheshire, there's a lot of work to do between now and summer, to make BeWILDerwood feel like BeWILDerwood to BeWILDerwood. It's fantastic that the new audience and our new visitors and things love us and get us. As I said before, that was one thing I was mindful of. But, I think internally, there is so much more that we can do to make BeWILDerwood BeWILDerwood, so that's going to be, I think, one of our focuses. Hannah Monteverde: There is a big focus on our Lantern Parade at the end of the year, which I think will probably be the next big challenge. I know I'm having a wander around with our ops people at some point this week, to discuss October, which is great. Kelly Molson: That sounds really far away at the moment as well. Hannah Monteverde: I know.Kelly Molson: October, gosh. Hannah Monteverde: Who knows what could happen by then? Let's hope things have settled down a bit more. Obviously, there's thinking forward to the post-COVID world. What happens when we don't have to limit our numbers? How do we deal with that? Do the facilities cope, does our infrastructure cope? What can we cope with? And, if we don't think we can cope with what we're going to get, how can we develop? How can we grow? How can we make it work? What exciting things can we put in next? Where are we going next?Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. There's loads of question at the moment. I think short term, we get through the next few weeks and then we really can start developing and growing, and thinking about what comes next. Kelly Molson: Maybe you can come back on in a year from now, and share the next instalment of Hannah's career progression and crazy life that's going on up in Cheshire. That'd be awesome.Hannah Monteverde: What is Hannah doing now? Oh, dear. Kelly Molson: Okay, well we're at the end of the interview. But, there is one last question that I always ask all of our guests. And, it is a book, a book that you love, hopefully, that you've read and isn't sitting in that lovely stack that's next to your bed right now. But, would you have a book that you'd recommend to our audience? Hannah Monteverde: I've been greedy and I've got two, I hope that's okay. Kelly Molson: You know what, people do this all the time. It blows my marketing budget consistently. Hannah Monteverde: I'm so sorry.Kelly Molson: But, you go for it.Hannah Monteverde: You'll probably be able to pick at least one of them up fairly cheaply. I think the first one you might not even need to buy because it's a really popular one, and most of your listeners will probably be familiar with it. But, for me this year it's been a really important one, I think. The first one is The Boy, the Mole, the Fox and the Horse by Charlie Macksey.Kelly Molson: It's a great book. Hannah Monteverde: It's not a leadership book, it's not anything fancy like that. It's not going to tell you how to get a million visitors to your visitor attraction. But, I found it so useful this year for putting things into perspective. This will get a bit personal anyway, but the few days I did work from home this year, my husband would pick out the book and set it out on a page on my desk, each morning. I'd be like, "Yeah, I can do this." Kelly Molson: That's lovely. Hannah Monteverde: "I can do this." Something different to read. Hannah Monteverde: I did want to mention, there's a really lovely audio version of it that I think they put on Radio Four over Christmas, which I really enjoyed. That's a really nice another way to listen to it. Hannah Monteverde: And then, the other one, this one I hope you'll laugh at this, otherwise you'll just think I'm really weird. Kelly Molson: Is it the Spice Girls annual? Hannah Monteverde: No, I'm afraid not. It's not Bewitched, either. This is one that I panic bought when you asked me to come onto this podcast because I was like, "Oh, God." Kelly Molson: Oh, the pressure. Hannah Monteverde: "I'm on a podcast with all these attractions professionals, and there I am, hello I'm Hannah, and I work at BeWILDerwood." I was like, "What book can I recommend?" Oh my goodness, nothing was highbrow enough or anything. Hannah Monteverde: So I did some research, and I bought an anthology of speeches called She Speaks. It's put together by Yvette Cooper. It's basically ... I've got it sitting next to me, so I can remember what it says. Its tagline is, "Women's speeches that changed the world." It's an anthology of famous women's speeches. But, I read it at breakfast when I feel like I need a kick up the ass for that day. I pick a page at random. What's really nice is that there's no agenda behind it. You've got people from completely different walks of life, but just copies of their powerful speeches. Yeah, I've found it hugely inspirational. I think at times it's quite moving, and I think it demonstrates, really succinctly, the power of words. So, that one. Kelly Molson: What a fantastic book. I've never heard of that book, either. I think that's one that I'm going to have to grab a copy of. Read it in the morning, that's a really self-motivating thing to set you up for the day as well, isn't it? Hannah Monteverde: Yeah. Yeah, I read that and I think, "Look at what all those amazing women have achieved." And then think, "I could do that." Kelly Molson: I am heading to BeWILDerwood and I'm going to do the same. Hannah Monteverde: Exactly.  I did threaten to my guys on one Motivational Monday that I'd come in and read one, but thankfully for them, I haven't subjected them to it yet. Kelly Molson: Well to be fair, when we were talking about hobbies earlier, I did actually make my team learn how to do crochet. Hannah Monteverde: Actually, that is another one I've tried. I got stuck on Insta, talking about magic circles or something. Is that right? Kelly Molson: It's really hard, a magic circle. That is a really difficult skill.Hannah Monteverde: I tried to crochet a cactus, and it didn't work out too well.Kelly Molson: Okay. See, all of my team were male at that point as well, so it was an interesting day of me trying to ... Well, it was a lunchtime of me trying to teach them how to do that. Hannah Monteverde: One thing I did, I did some macrame. I made a macrame wall hanging, but I've only made one wall hanging and that's it. I've ticked that off now, don't need to do it anymore. Kelly Molson: Oh, but it's on the wall. There's the achievement, you don't need to do anymore. Look what you did. I love that, thank you. Kelly Molson: Hannah, it's been so lovely to have you on. I've really, really enjoyed this interview. I genuinely do extend that offer, it would be really great for you to come back maybe a year from now, and let us know what the next stage is of what's happened up there and how it's all gone. It would be really good to hear from you. Hannah Monteverde: Thank you. I'd love to come back.Kelly Molson: Awesome, thank you very much. Kelly Molson: Well, if you as ever, listeners, if you want to win Hannah's books that she's mentioned today, if you head over to our Twitter account and you retweet this episode announcement with the comment, "I want Hannah's books," then you'll be in a chance of winning them both. Kelly Molson: Awesome, Hannah. Come back soon, and good luck with the rest of the season. Hannah Monteverde: Thank you. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five-star review, it really helps others find us. And, remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast.

This week we check in with Tamara about her family's spring break road trip to look at colleges. Find out how the trip went and why her visit to the Vista Verde Ranch in Colorado was the perfect spring break retreat. College Road Trip Stops The first stop was in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania to visit Lehigh University. This historic town is popular at Christmas time and offers a cute downtown with lots of restaurants. The historic Hotel Bethlehem is nice but in need of renovation. If you visit, try the Social Still for dinner and the Flying Egg for breakfast. The second stop was in Cleveland to visit Case Western Reserve University. Located in the University Circle neighborhood near the Cleveland Clinic, this is a nice area to explore the city's museums such as the Museum of Art, Museum of Natural History, and Botanical Gardens. The Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in Cleveland is offering timed-entry tickets, temperature checks, one-way traffic, and social distancing. It was not crowded at all, making it a good time to visit. The third stop was in Ann Arbor to visit the University of Michigan. The Graduate Ann Arbor is a perfect spot to stay to visit the college and offers one-bedroom king suites for families. If you are staying in town, have lunch at Zingerman's Deli, dinner at the Slurping Turtle, and breakfast, lunch or dinner at Sava's. Next up was the University of Madison - Wisconsin. Again, The Graduate Madison is a good spot to stay just off State Street and close to campus. If you are traveling through Nebraska, the Old Haymarket District of Lincoln, Nebraska, home of the University of Nebraska, is a cool neighborhood to visit. The next college stop was at the University of Colorado - Boulder. The Embassy Suites in Boulder offers beautiful views, one-bedroom suites, and modern decor within walking distance to campus. When in Boulder, plan to spend time in the Pearl Street Mall area. Two great dinner stops are Oak at Fourteenth and Santo Boulder. If you are visiting Colorado Springs, you will probably want to visit the Garden of the Gods park, but be prepared for crowds in addition to beautiful red rock formations. Tamara's family then spent a few days relaxing at the Vista Verde Ranch. This all-inclusive luxury ranch was an ideal spring break retreat offering snow tubing, snow shoeing, cross country skiing, ice fishing, snow mobiling, horse back riding and other indoor and outdoor options. The food is amazing and plentiful and there are a number of cabin options on property ranging from one to four bedrooms. On their way back, Tamara stopped in Topeka, Kansas, St. Louis, Missouri, and outside of Pittsburg, PA. In St. Louis, the Hotel St. Louis, an Autograph Collection property by Marriott, is a great place to stay with gorgeous large suites and a convenient location. If you are planning on visiting the Gateway Arch, be sure to by timed-entry tickets in advance. The social distancing protocols make for a pleasant, uncrowded stay with designated tram cars and viewing windows. See Tamara's tips for road trip mistakes to avoid.   Full Episode Transcript [00:00:00.120] - Kim Tate We're back. Stay tuned to hear about our latest adventures.   [00:00:16.230] - Announcer Welcome to Vacation Mavens. A family travel podcast with ideas for your next vacation and tips to get you out the door. Here are your hosts, Kim from Stuffed Suitcase and Tamara from We3Travel.   [00:00:31.260] - Kim Tate Tamara, we have just had, you know, a couple of awesome road trips. So I'm sure our listeners are dying to hear all about it. Everything that we've done, everything we learned or discovered. So this is our episode to kind of dish and just tell them about our latest.   [00:00:46.920] - Tamara Gruber Yeah, I was thinking as I was driving, I'm like, hmm, this is what I want to say about Nebraska. This is what I want to say. Well, you know, just kind of and I was like, I really should make notes, but I was driving for half the time, so I didn't actually make notes.   [00:00:59.400] - Tamara Gruber But I'm excited to chat with you. It's been so long and I know we're going to go into more detail about your California road trip in a couple of episodes, because I know that that's a trip that probably a lot of people want to make.   [00:01:11.370] - Kim Tate But we should definitely talk about your epic one, because how many miles and how many states did you hit?   [00:01:15.990] - Tamara Gruber Oh, my God, 5000 miles. I didn't realize it was going to be quite that far. And I think I think because of the way we came back, we actually hit 16 states.   [00:01:26.970] - Kim Tate Yeah. My goodness. Yeah.   [00:01:28.260] - Tamara Gruber And I mean, a lot of those actually, for me, I had been to all of them before. But for Hannah, there were some new ones. For Glenn, there are some new ones. We saw, you know, a lot of ground, I will say, because we went in mid-March. I remember before we went, you were sending me pictures like it'll be pretty and you're sending me pictures of, like fields of wheat in the sun, sunset and like. Yeah, no, it is just brown.   [00:01:50.940] - Tamara Gruber It's brown, brown, brown. So it was not a scenic road trip at all. I think a lot of our listeners know that we were going to look at colleges. We did have a really beautiful part of Colorado, you know, where we were in Colorado and we stayed at a ranch. And, you know, I could talk about that a little bit, but it did convince me, too, that I really should consider moving to Colorado at some point. But it was most of the trip was, you know, a little bit boring when it came to the scenery.   [00:02:21.990] - Tamara Gruber But we did get to see quite a few colleges. And you know what? There's something about driving through huge parts of this country that it just stirs me. You know, like I just I it's so important to me to feel like connected. And I feel like I can visualize, like, what it is like to live in other parts of the country, you know, get a little bit more sense of like where people coming from, what their, you know, regular life is like, you know, because I'm just I've lived all my life in the Northeast and the Northeast we know is like, you know, it's crowded.   [00:02:55.050] - Tamara Gruber It's just, you know, like one city blurs into the other, you know, in our rural areas are, you know, like you can't drive for miles and miles without finding, you know, a place to get gas or, you know, like any of these things.   [00:03:08.490] - Tamara Gruber It's just very different. And so I really appreciate every time I'm able to, like, drive through a lot of this country. And I really I really hope that more people, you know, can do that kind of thing. You know, like even if it wasn't pretty, there was just something to it.   [00:03:21.810] - Kim Tate It's just something to like the vastness and the diversity and everything to it. Yeah, I think that it's good for the coastal people to realize and experience the breadbasket of America like they term it because it is so different. And, you know, I grew up in the Midwest, of course, and knew nothing really about toll roads and all that stuff. And so that's always something. When I go to the coast, I'm always like, oh, there's there's toll roads in these places.   [00:03:47.310] - Tamara Gruber So I just wrote a post about like road trip mistakes that people make because I feel like tolls is definitely one that people don't always pay attention to.   [00:03:56.130] - Tamara Gruber And nowadays there's not always a man toll booth like it's often like electronic billing. And if you're not from that area, you don't have that system. And so then you have to try to figure it out. I can't even tell you how many hours I spent trying to figure out where I was supposed to pay the Illinois tollway, you know, and I don't I'm not sure I'm expecting I mean, like eight tickets in the mail.   [00:04:16.530] - Tamara Gruber And I'm like, I registered for your site. I filled out everything. But I'm not seeing, like, where I actually I we took pictures of every single, like, gate kind of thing. Like the time and the number, you know, because Glenn's been there before and I'm like, I can't figure this out. So some of the systems are not so easy to figure out. Come to the northeast and they're like what do you mean it's fifteen dollars across the bridge. I'm like yeah.   [00:04:44.040] - Kim Tate Yeah. And it's you know, well we have on the West Coast like HOV lanes. Right. So we had where we couldn't even use the lane near San Francisco because we didn't have you there. And we have that in Seattle as well. Like you can use the HOV lane for a fee for a fee.   [00:05:00.150] - Kim Tate But if you want to use it as a high occupancy vehicle, you have to have the, you know, Washington tag that's in your windshield and is registered to your vehicle on your plate. And so, yeah, it was kind of frustrating. I was like, oh, because we got hit in a major traffic. And like, I was like, oh, I want to be in that carpool lane, but I couldn't. I didn't want to pay whatever the fee was because, you know, in Washington, if you don't have the past, you have to pay three dollars to pay it by mail. They charge you a three dollar surcharge. So anyways, it's crazy.   [00:05:32.830] - Tamara Gruber Well, I will say, I have a lot of overall observations of driving 5000 miles. Number one, our roads are crap. They are terrible.   [00:05:42.130] - Tamara Gruber Like I know they're trying to pass an infrastructure bill and I can't even say how much we need it. Like I always comment on that around, like where I live. But I feel like I live in such a busy area, like it's get so much traffic. Well, you know what, we're driving i 80, i 70, i 90 like.   [00:05:59.500] - Tamara Gruber And it's all trucks, there's so many trucks and it was you know, I don't know if it's more now or not, but like it was the point where it's not relaxing at all, even though it's just a straight highway. It's like because you're constantly passing trucks like we had had to drive. She just has a permit. Knock wood. By the time you hear that, she'll have her license. But she drove for like three hours in Nebraska and three hours in Kansas. And the speed limit is like seventy five. And she's like constantly like trucks are passing her, she's passing trucks. And it was she's like, I'm exhausted. I don't know if you see that on the West Coast, but it was terrible.   [00:06:44.740] - Kim Tate Yeah, well, we went through Oregon and I guess in Oregon, it's one of the few states that allows three semi links. And I think you probably passed some, but I we don't have it in California or Washington. Oh, but it's semi trucks allow three, you know, the back seat and it says long load.   [00:07:07.660] - Tamara Gruber I even said it like those trucks drive like they rule the world and like who cares about you. I had one literally drive me off the road like I'm so glad that I was driving and not Hannah because I managed to keep us like in the like in not a shoulder. I had to go into the grass but like straight without like like she probably would have with the car. It's like they I was next to it and not like far back, like next to its cab.   [00:07:38.740] - Tamara Gruber Yeah. And it started, you know, it put its turn signal on and it started coming and I'm like laying on the horn and it just kept coming. And so I had to go into the median and again, you know, you're like you're driving through grass and you're like seventy five miles an hour, you know?   [00:07:52.790] - Tamara Gruber And then I was able to like, you know, safely get us back up, you know, on the road. And that almost happened to me multiple times. So I will say, like, it's not you know, it was not always pleasant driving. I would have loved to have gotten off on just some of the smaller roads, like when we were in like Wisconsin and Colorado, we were in some smaller roads that were like much more pleasant. Although let me tell you the other thing that I observed about Wisconsin.   [00:08:21.730] - Tamara Gruber I felt like I was in another country. We have you ever seen this where the instead of, you know, how you have interstate, you know, we have Interstate 95, we have high U.S. Highway One, we have state route two. There are like state highways or, you know, it was like exit for Highway X, Y or an X.   [00:08:42.070] - Tamara Gruber It was the letter letters I've never seen. I know we're going to have listeners that are like, what's wrong with you? But like, I had never I never seen that either.   [00:08:52.570] - Kim Tate I didn't know that either. I are. We're just inspiring people to take road trips with all these. I'm just kidding.   [00:08:59.050] - Tamara Gruber Sorry. anyways, these are the things you learn, right?   [00:09:02.830] - Kim Tate Yeah, these are the things you learn. But I always think it's cool how the states have different highways. They have the little symbols. And I've never seen anything fun like in California or Oregon or Washington. But I know once we were in like I think Utah and they have like a beehive. Is there like have you seen.   [00:09:18.400] - Kim Tate Oh yeah. It's like different shape. So, yeah, different states have fun little shapes and stuff, but I don't think we have anything fun. So I was wondering if you saw any fun shaped state highways.   [00:09:28.510] - Tamara Gruber Not that I recognize, but I can kind of picture that. I'm pretty sure in New Hampshire there's looks like one of the mountain faces. I did learn that Nebraska. Oh, what's that? What was the town?   [00:09:40.410] - Tamara Gruber Kearney, Nebraska is the sandhill Crane, capital of the world. As we're driving, this is the time that Hannah was driving. So I was sitting in the back because I'm like, you know, I need a break. And if I'm in the front, like, somebody needs to, like, be paying attention to her. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm just going to sit in the back for a little bit. I can't do it long because I get carsick, but I'm like, I'm going to go back there.   [00:10:01.450] - Tamara Gruber So I'm just like looking out the window and I just see all these birds that I'm like they kind of look like Osprey, like they look like water birds, but they're all in these open fields, you know, because it's just like plowed fields now. And I'm like, this is so I. And I'm like, did you guys see that, did you guys see that and they're like, what? What's, you know, like I have nothing else to look at back here. You can't, like, look ahead of me, you know?   [00:10:22.150] - Tamara Gruber So anyway, then we would drive past the sign that says the sandhill crane capital of the world. I'm like, oh, that's fascinating. Yeah, that's cool.   [00:10:29.380] - Kim Tate I was going to mention with bathrooms when you're talking about stops and stuff is surprisingly I forgot about travel centers like for when you know about travel centers.   [00:10:43.450] - Kim Tate They normally have like a food place in them, but I find they're the restrooms at most of those travel centers, like the big ones, like the TravelCenters of America, like the big T and A..   [00:10:52.750] - Kim Tate Yeah. Although it's funny, like growing up in the Midwest, we always laughed about the T and the giant T&A. But anyways, you know, it's normally a pretty good one. And so we stopped at that a couple of times. And I think that the other thing we had done was because she was looking for like a cheesy California keychain for a friend. And I was like, oh, we need to find a travel center, because that's the kind of stuff they have there.   [00:11:16.480] - Tamara Gruber And yeah, like, that's that kind of thing is very common here in the East Coast. It's not like they're not always the labeled ones like like they're just like like if you're driving like I-95, it's like, you know, here's this rest area and it's there's gas and there's inside there's bathrooms, there's, you know, food court. And there's the little shop and the bathrooms there.   [00:11:36.790] - Tamara Gruber Like I actually they're usually pretty clean, like they weren't when I worked at one back on the New Jersey Turnpike when I was 16.   [00:11:43.630] - Tamara Gruber But it's pretty clean and you don't have to touch any doors, you know, like everything touchless, you know. So that is and it's very open like versus going into like a gas station that has like a one.   [00:11:56.020] - Kim Tate Yeah, yeah. Or they've got like the paddle key you have to get. Yeah. That people have touched in the last fifty.   [00:12:00.250] - Tamara Gruber But even and even if they have like one that has multiple stalls, it's like two or three styles and people might be waiting in a line and it's very close, whereas those are like so open, you know, that like the circulation is much better.   [00:12:11.090] - Kim Tate Exactly. And there's normally find parking and certainly easy to get on and off and back on the highway. Yeah. So I really like those. And then we used rest stops a lot actually. And I was really impressed.   [00:12:20.860] - Kim Tate I think rest stops are like the gift to road trips because for us, especially with teenagers and when they were little kids, we discovered this.   [00:12:28.900] - Kim Tate Inevitably somebody is waiting for a bathroom, are looking for and they end up wandering down the aisles and wanting to get this chip in this drink. And you spend another hundred and fifty dollars on snacks that day because of all the stops for bathrooms that you ended up buying junk food. And I noticed at least on the West Coast, I think it was practically 100 percent mask wearing on all the rest stops. And I even noticed one point because I kind of I think it was partially me, because I noticed this older couple was walking towards me like walking their dog and they didn't have my son.   [00:13:02.530] - Kim Tate And I, like, gave them a wide berth. Like I walked in the grass to go around them. And as soon as I passed, I heard the woman go, Oh, honey, we have our mask. Let's see, I'm going to go to the car and get our mask. Like she hadn't thought of it because she was thinking they were just going to walk our dog. But then she realized, you know, there's a lot of foot traffic.   [00:13:17.050] - Tamara Gruber Right. Right. I've had that experience, too. Yeah. So for you, like when you say, like, rest stop, So that's like the building off of the highway where like, yeah, people walk the dog and there's bathrooms and sometimes there's like a brochure's or something but that's like yeah ok. Yeah.   [00:13:31.810] - Tamara Gruber Great. Yeah. Yeah we have been, we have like the big ones kind of too.   [00:13:36.460] - Kim Tate So yeah these are, I'm talking about the ones that are just like literally on and off the highway, I-95 there almost every twenty five miles ish most of the time. So but yeah. And there's definitely different qualities in some of them are nice and have lots of stalls and others are not great.   [00:13:52.660] - Kim Tate But everyone we all went to always had toilet paper, had seat covers, running water, all that. So it was a good, good thing for us.   [00:14:00.670] - Tamara Gruber It shows you our priorities that we're spending like five minutes talking about bathroom. I'm so sorry, everyone.   [00:14:06.280] - Kim Tate They're like, OK, yeah, I'm bored. Yeah, we're like twenty minutes. And we haven't even started talking about your road trip. So let's jump to that.   [00:14:18.220] - Kim Tate Let's talk about your specific road trip. We've talked about the mileage and the states, but what were the highlights?   [00:14:23.980] - Tamara Gruber Let's see. I'll just run through an order because it's easiest for me to remember, like, in that way. But we our first stop was in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, which is known for its like Christmas things, because, as you can imagine. So we visited Lehigh University there and that was good. It was actually a very cute little downtown. It was good.   [00:14:43.600] - Tamara Gruber I liked the university was beautiful, but it was not Hannah's favorite just because she wants something a little more integrated, even though it was like a very cute town, she's like it's more like town adjacent than town, like into like, OK, so that was our first stop.   [00:14:56.440] - Tamara Gruber And then we headed off to Cleveland and we stayed in the university circle neighborhood of Cleveland. So we didn't see a lot of downtown, but I really explored that area. It's so it's case Western Reserve University is the school that we're visiting and it's right next to like all the hospitals and Cleveland Clinic, but it's also near there. Museum. So they have like this really nice green area, you know, with like parks and it's like the Wade oval and around it there's a botanical gardens, a museum of natural history, an art museum.   [00:15:28.080] - Tamara Gruber And then also just a few minutes away, kind of right next to campus, too, is a contemporary art museum. So there's a lot of museums around there to explore. There's like a Little Italy neighborhood, you know, and of course, we spent time, like walking around campus.   [00:15:42.210] - Tamara Gruber But then one of the things that we got to do was to go to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, because I'm like, if we're going to go to Cleveland, like, we have to do this, like we all love music.   [00:15:52.230] - Tamara Gruber You know, Glenn, you know, especially like is such a classic rock guy. But I was really surprised by, like, how up to date it was, you know, they had like outfits from Billy Eilish, you know, like it was it was very like all the like Harry Styles to like all the way up to date.   [00:16:08.280] - Tamara Gruber And here's going to be my plug in my learning for this. It's like I know that everyone's going to head to the outdoors in the national parks this summer. I know in a couple weeks we're going to be talking about one of those kind of road trips. But I will say, if you want to be counterintuitive, it's actually really cheap to be in cities right now.   [00:16:27.870] - Tamara Gruber And the indoor attractions are very quiet.   [00:16:31.470] - Tamara Gruber And it's so well managed that I we felt so much safer in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame than we did when we went to the Outdoor Garden of the Gods in a park in Colorado Springs because you had to get timed entry tickets.   [00:16:47.100] - Tamara Gruber Everybody has temperatures taken. It's one way traffic. It's all sanitized like everything. Like I really felt we were obviously were there on a Monday afternoon. So it wasn't like primetime.   [00:16:57.090] - Tamara Gruber But I was like, could there even have been 50 people in this entire building of like three or four floors? Like, it didn't it was not crowded at all. Some of the interactive types of things were closed. So I'm sure it would have been more fun if we could have done more of that, like listening kind of things.   [00:17:13.140] - Tamara Gruber But we still like, you know, we really enjoyed it. We got a lot out of it. So I feel like maybe it's not too bad to do some of these indoor things or things that are usually crowded when there's not the crowds. So I can throw that out there as an idea.   [00:17:26.520] - Kim Tate You know, I totally sorry. I was going to say I totally agree. I was just talking to Carolyn, our friend Carolyn, about that, because I went to the mop up museum in Seattle and it was the same thing. It was like a timed entry ticket that you bought online, got temperature checked. Everything's one way.   [00:17:39.510] - Kim Tate And there is it felt like nobody felt like we had the exhibits to ourselves. And of course, like you said, we went in the weekday. But I definitely think you're right that that's the place to, like, really take advantage of your, like, staycation local cities. If there's some museums you avoid or I think now's the time to.   [00:17:56.100] - Tamara Gruber Yeah, because and like I said, the the days I mean, for the most part, almost all of the hotels we were in, we it was not like they they are kind of concentrating people on certain floors, I think probably for housekeeping reasons.   [00:18:08.010] - Tamara Gruber So it's not like we're the only one on the floor, but only in I think one place did we sometimes encounter people like on the elevator and we'd have to wait for the next elevator. But for the most part, there was like no one around and it was cheap, you know, so that all worked out well.   [00:18:23.010] - Tamara Gruber So we moved from Cleveland and I actually really like that school, too. So so maybe we'll be back and explore more in Cleveland. We'll see. But from then, we drove like about two and a half hours to Ann Arbor, Michigan. And I will say, like, I know Michigan is a huge school, University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, and they have the largest stadium football stadium in the Western Hemisphere, the big house.   [00:18:43.680] - Tamara Gruber And so I thought the school is going to feel immense and like really just spread out and like not manageable and confusing. And it really didn't like first of all, Ann Arbor is the cutest town. You know, like there's great, like restaurants and like just little districts. And, you know, walking around was great. And the campus felt like there's like a north campus that you definitely have to drive to. But then the rest of it felt like pretty compact. And there's just so much school spirit there.   [00:19:10.110] - Tamara Gruber Like everyone that you walk by is wearing like Michigan or something, you know, like sweatpants, sweatshirt, you know, like it just you could tell, like, they're super into it. So and we had a couple we brought in.   [00:19:21.630] - Tamara Gruber Well, one time we eat outside at a deli. Zingerman's Deli is like really famous there. So we had to check that out. And then we brought in from like an Asian place called Slurping Turtle, which was delicious.   [00:19:33.300] - Tamara Gruber We stayed at the graduate there, which again, I love graduate hotels for college towns because they have so much personality. And there it was, you know, not crowded at all. And it was adjacent to campus, like adjacent to State Street, like everything was convenient. So if you go in to Ann Arbor, like, I would definitely look at a stay there. It was you know, it was a really nice property.   [00:19:55.680] - Tamara Gruber We I had booked a suite, so it wasn't quite as big of a separate little room as I thought, but it had like this little living room area, you know, I usually like the suite would be like the main room is like you walk into, like the living area and then the bedroom would be off here. You walked into the bedroom and then off the bedroom there was a. A little like I would call it a den, you know, like it had a little tiny couch and a little like a TV and a chair.   [00:20:20.810] - Tamara Gruber So we put Hannah in there and like you, you could extend the bed, but you couldn't then walk around it, like, crawl across.   [00:20:28.400] - Tamara Gruber So it's very small, but it was perfect because, you know, she had at least her own little space. And then the next morning before we left, we had this amazing brunch.   [00:20:37.920] - Tamara Gruber I have to, like, look up where it was. But we had this, you know, amazing brunch of this beautiful place. We actually had to knock on the door, like to have them open for us.   [00:20:46.790] - Tamara Gruber So we were the only people in there for a while. And I think that was one of the like, you know, eating inside still makes us nervous. So we're like, OK, it's like a two story place. We're the only people in here, so we're good. So if you go to Ann Arbor, the place is called Savas. And it was it was delicious. I'm sure it would be amazing for lunch or dinner, too.   [00:21:03.350] - Tamara Gruber But from there, we moved to Madison, Wisconsin, and I've been to Madison before, as you know, and I really liked it a lot when we got there.   [00:21:11.780] - Tamara Gruber It was pretty like rainy, but like an icy cold, you know, windy kind of rain. So it wasn't like ideal conditions for exploring. But luckily, like a friend of ours, their daughter goes to University of Wisconsin, Madison. So she was able to walk us around, I think, which definitely made an impression on Hannah because the other places we were just exploring on our own because tours weren't open right at the time. So, you know, so that was good.   [00:21:36.320] - Tamara Gruber And we that day was actually St. Patrick's Day. So I was like, I am not going out on St. Patrick's Day in a college town. Like, there's no way. Not a pandemic, no way. So we brought in some food there. And we also stated a graduate there and actually the graduate there, we stayed at we again booked a suite. It was called like the Camp Wanda Wenga Suite or something. But it's set up like very camp style.   [00:21:58.190] - Tamara Gruber And the separate little room had bunk beds and it had like an Atari and like, you know, a little gaming system and stuff. So it was really cute. And I was like, oh, my. Like, top bunk is going to be for this and I'm going to be in the bottom bunk. And I know she she had fun that she had bunk beds. That's cute. So that was good.   [00:22:13.250] - Tamara Gruber And then we drove. That's the day that we then drove and we stayed in Nebraska. So that was just like we had a driving day and then we had another driving day and we got to Boulder, Colorado, and we definitely loved our stay in Boulder.   [00:22:25.250] - Tamara Gruber It's such a cute it's a cute city. Has is like this Pearl Street district where it's just like an open pedestrian mall with tons of like restaurants and shops and stuff off of it.   [00:22:35.570] - Tamara Gruber And we stayed at an Embassy Suites. And I will say, like Glenn and I were, we used points for a lot of these. And so Glenn and I were kind of expecting, you know, a lot of embassy suites are kind of old, right?   [00:22:46.910] - Kim Tate You know, like, yeah, they have this in the nineties. Like this big center foyer. Pyramid or whatever.   [00:22:54.500] - Tamara Gruber Yeah, yeah, yeah. This was like a brand new Embassy Suites. It was the nicest Embassy Suites or looked brand new that I've ever seen.   [00:23:02.240] - Kim Tate And we had a nice we had an Embassy Suites in Seattle.   [00:23:07.220] - Tamara Gruber Really nice. Yeah. It's just. Yeah yeah I agree because you get that stuck in your head about certain brands. Right. You kind of have like what your expectations are. So I was like, well you know, we're using points like whatever, it's an embassy suites and I got there, I'm like, oh this is really nice. And again had a suite again. We were on the road a lot, very close together. So a few times I wanted to splurge and have a suite and have like a little more space, you know, to be in.   [00:23:32.150] - Tamara Gruber But it overlooked the you could see the campus, which is kind of up on a hill, then behind it, the Flatiron Mountains. And it was stunning. It's like, you know, to to open up the window and see, that was amazing.   [00:23:45.530] - Tamara Gruber And just the campus was beautiful. We love you know, she loved the campus. She loved Boulder. I just loved, you know, they had just gotten like two feet of snow a week before. So I thought it was going to be crazy. And, yeah, there was some snow on the ground, but it just doesn't stick. I think, like, you and I are both come from like wet climb, you know, colder like wet climates.   [00:24:02.660] - Tamara Gruber And so we'll get ice, you know, it sticks around. But there I think because it's dry, like the snow just melts and evaporates right away.   [00:24:10.970] - Tamara Gruber But yeah. So one day we drove down, we were going to go to Rocky Mountain National Park, but then I was reading about it and it looked like a lot of the trails, like I would need snow shoes. And then I'm like, well, you know, you can only drive so much of it because the main road is closed in the winter. You know, you can't go all the way across the park.   [00:24:28.520] - Tamara Gruber And so I was just debating, do we bother to go up there? We're going to have we're going to do snowshoeing and stuff when we go on our next stop. So I didn't really want to rent equipment to do that. So instead, we it was a beautiful day. It was like seventy degrees, which is crazy. So we drove down to Colorado Springs and we went to the Garden of the Gods, which I think everyone has seen pictures of.   [00:24:48.800] - Tamara Gruber And I just oh, it looks so beautiful. Like let's go down there.   [00:24:51.830] - Tamara Gruber First of all, we got stuck in all this traffic, which was crazy. And then, you know, so that was stressful. And then we got there and it was insane. It was it was a Saturday afternoon. It was seventy degrees, but it was insanely crowded. So I had and I got there. I had to use the bathroom speaking bathrooms. So I did wait in line like outside, because everyone that came in to the visitors center had to like sign in and provide your.   [00:25:14.170] - Tamara Gruber Contact information for contact tracing, which was a joke because it's interesting that they're still doing that. Yeah, like everyone else, like tons of people didn't even go inside. And so we're walking, you know, then into the park and like, no one had masks, hardly anybody had masks on.   [00:25:30.550] - Tamara Gruber And these are like jammed walkways, like you cannot avoid being within six feet of people. And it says, like, you know, mask is required even outside for when you can't be. It wasn't like it required all the time, but it's like when you can't be with, you know, more than six feet away. But it's like you clearly no one can be.   [00:25:50.440] - Tamara Gruber So we were wearing a mask and we're like trying to like, you know, get through it really quickly in a way. But it was it was definitely stressful.   [00:25:57.370] - Tamara Gruber It was like it was really like all of us were feeling it were a super stressful, you know, like trying to, like, look away when somebody, like, walked by you and like, you know, like just I don't know, like just protect yourself.   [00:26:07.860] - Tamara Gruber And I know what's outside. And you generally passing people like within seconds. And there's probably very little danger, but it's still kind of freaked us out, you know, like it's been a long time since we've been around a lot of people.   [00:26:19.090] - Tamara Gruber And it was not really fun. And I wanted it to be fun and I felt bad. So that's just my feeling is that granted, if I was in that situation and I had been vaccinated already, I wouldn't feel quite as worried. But I do really worry about being in crowded places like this summer and like what that's going to be like in some of the parks. And I know some people will feel like very comfortable because they're vaccinated. But like, if things are still circulating a lot, you know, like we still have to take certain precautions.   [00:26:47.890] - Tamara Gruber And, you know, I don't know. It does make me a little bit worried about being in, like I said, crowded places in the summer.   [00:26:54.370] - Kim Tate But was it pretty, though?   [00:26:56.110] - Tamara Gruber It was beautiful. It was. It was. But it probably was a little more crowded than I would have liked anyway. I just have to get used to that.   [00:27:04.900] - Tamara Gruber So after Boulder, we ended up going to a ranch for a couple of days, which was like definitely the highlight of our trip. And, you know, you know that when we went to the ranch in Montana a few years ago, it was still like one of our top trips. We just kind of love that experience. But I wasn't quite sure what it was going to be like in the winter, spring, you know, kind of season, like what activities there would be and what it would be like.   [00:27:30.400] - Tamara Gruber But it was exactly what we needed. You know, it was like time outside. We had, you know, time. It was just such a relaxed environment, I think. So we went to the Vista Verde Ranch, which is just a little bit north of Steamboat Springs, and it is a luxury ranch. So they definitely have more amenities and, you know, service than the ranch that we went to before. And I think both can be great.   [00:27:56.950] - Tamara Gruber But I felt like for this, especially for this season, it was nice to have the kind of that extra level of of amenities and activities and things. But there max capacity is something like 50 people, you know. So I think it's like a dozen cabins. They have cabins that go from one bedroom up to four bedroom. And you have you know, you have your own space because you have a cabin.   [00:28:17.500] - Tamara Gruber So it felt like a very covid friendly type of vacation. And I wasn't sure because everything that we did before was so like community oriented.   [00:28:26.590] - Tamara Gruber And I think that that does it is sad that you don't have some of that now, because that is like one of the really cool things about a ranch environment. Right. But it's still like they did it in such a way. That was it was just really nice. So I just can't like I don't know, I was so happy. Like, I wish we could have stayed longer. It's definitely pricey, but it is, you know, just a very unique experience.   [00:28:47.980] - Tamara Gruber I mean, we did activities they have like you can sign up for activities like the day before. They have a calendar out. There's morning activities and afternoon activities, and sometimes there's a night activity. And so we did snowshoeing one day, which was just fabulous. And the way that they do it, you know, they have all the equipment on site, they have guides. And what they're doing now is like if you're with a family or small group, they're sending you out with like a private guide.   [00:29:17.470] - Tamara Gruber So you're not even in a group of people, you know, it's just you and your family, which is kind of nice because I think I've told a story about like one other time when I went snowshoeing and I showed up and like all my ski gear, like thinking I was going to be freezing and I showed up and there were this there was like the guide in this other couple and they were in, I don't know, like a sweatshirt and like winter pants kind of thing.   [00:29:40.480] - Tamara Gruber And they were like, I hope we're going to really get our hearts going now. And I'm like, oh, crap. I did it myself into and the whole time I'm like huffing and puffing because there it was like climbing in, like trying to keep up with them and sweating and ripping off layers of clothes. And then I would catch up to them and then they'd be like and then they would keep going, you know what I'm like. I didn't get a chance to have a rest. And so I feel like to go by yourself. And the other time I did it was in Idaho and it was just me and a guide. But she was like twenty three. She was out there on the mountain every day, you know, and I was like my foot hurt from. For the last few days and, you know, it's just like you're at altitude and you're climbing up and I remember being like, I'm going to stop and take a picture.   [00:30:21.760] - Tamara Gruber I'm going to stop stopping and taking pictures because I needed a little break. But this one was like, you know, he kept stopping and he was just like, how are you guys doing? We're like, no, we're good. Like, let's keep going and let's let's climb up there. And, you know, we climbed up to this point. We had a beautiful view and know. So they really can match your peace. And like he says, like, you know, with a family, like your patient, with each other, you know, it's not like a group that, you know, someone's left behind or annoyed or, you know, all that.   [00:30:48.020] - Tamara Gruber So so that was, you know, really worked out well. And then I think that afternoon, Hannah and I did a trail ride. I forget what Glenn did. Maybe he just decided to skip it. But we did a trail ride. And so, you know, typical, like, you know, line up my horse.   [00:31:06.100] - Tamara Gruber My horse was a little nasty, though. Apparently, it was like the I don't know, what's the queen bee of horses, you know, like it has like seniority. So I kept trying to bite all the other horses. I would like to try to walk by. And so, yeah, like then the other horses were like, given it the side. I'm like, hold onto it like really tight. So stop trying to like bite the other horse. I have a little like a little bully over here.   [00:31:43.810] - Tamara Gruber I was talking to one of the ranch hands afterwards about it and she was like, oh yeah, he's got a little attitude, you know, but they're so used to some of it that I don't know, like I just I felt like like it was a personal reflection on me.   [00:31:55.360] - Tamara Gruber One of my horses tried to, you know, be nasty to another was like I wasn't controlling it well. But he was just like an hour, you know, ride like through a trail. But it's, you know, everything was still snow covered. So it was really it was just pretty. And I can't even tell you how much we enjoyed the weather because it was like sunny skies, blue skies, which I'm leaving looking at my window now in April.   [00:32:17.440] - Tamara Gruber And I'm just seeing gray, you know, and it's just it makes me feel like so much more alive when the sun is out.   [00:32:24.310] - Tamara Gruber And even though it was like twenty, thirty degrees when we were doing these things, like we went snowshoeing and I just had a base layer. And like a zip up fleece and that's it. And like my snow pants and I was totally fine and like that's kind of it felt like thirty degrees warmer than it actually the temperature was.   [00:32:46.150] - Tamara Gruber So we had a good time with that. And then afterwards they let you go into the paddock for this thing they call a spring shed. And so basically the horses are shedding their winter coat and so you can go and help like brush them and you can just like, you know, go up to any horse.   [00:33:01.840] - Tamara Gruber And so I was like, do we need to be careful around there? Like, no, just kind of like them. No, like, talk to them, let them know that you're coming.   [00:33:08.380] - Tamara Gruber And so we're brushing them and of course, like it was starting to be mud season. So it's like a little icky out there, like with the poop.   [00:33:16.900] - Tamara Gruber And and so I'm like, OK, I really wish I brought my rain boots that I could just, like, spray off. Yeah. So my tip would be to bring like a plastic bag or anything that is coming back from there. But it was, you know, it was just fun. Like Hannah loves horses.   [00:33:32.650] - Tamara Gruber So it was like, you know, fun for her to just be able to to do that for a while and then, oh, the food was crazy good, like so, so good and so much food like the first night we got there and it was barbecue night.   [00:33:47.590] - Tamara Gruber So you think it's going to be, I don't know, like family style. First of all, it's all like table service. And what they've done is they did used to have like community tables, but now because of covid, you can choose to have your own table. And so they've spread things out. So they have like them spread out in the dining room.   [00:34:04.030] - Tamara Gruber And ours was actually in the main lobby, which is like towering ceilings, like beautiful lodge. And we were by a window. So we had this amazing view. There was no table anywhere near us. So it was like so comfortable, you know, for like indoor dining. And they would know. So you had a printed menu every time, like beautiful place sitting. Everything was like a starter, an entree and a dessert. And the first night it was like brisket, ribs or Alaskan king crab legs.   [00:34:33.400] - Tamara Gruber And I'm like, I didn't even get Alaskan king crab legs when I went on an Alaskan cruise and I went to the seafood restaurant, you know, like so Glen was like, well, I can't decide, like, can I get everything? And the girl was like, sure. And he was like, what? Like, you don't expect people to do that, you know? And she's like, yeah, like if you want like whatever you want, like I can bring you a little bit of this, little bit of that. And in the next morning scene with like breakfast, I was like, OK, well can I have like a pancake and an egg and some bacon. She's like, sure. So they it was so much food and it was really. Yeah, it was delicious, you know. And the next night was a formal night. So the kids have an option of doing like grab and go. Dining where it's more like a kid's meal, you know, that they can just take and they can eat it in the cabin and or go do a kid activity, but it's a little bit more of a formal meal. But it wasn't like you had to get dressed up. But these chefs came out and like presented and then they had like a wine pairing to go with it. So that one was I think we had like a salmon over like a lemon truffle, cauliflower risotto and Brussels sprout leaves. And, you know, it was like really it was it was fine dining.   [00:35:43.710] - Tamara Gruber And every meal was great, like, you know, you had lunch. And I was like, OK, let's start with like a giant salad and then a burger and then dessert. And I'm like, I can't do this. Like, I can't keep eating.   [00:35:54.360] - Tamara Gruber It's like it's so much food. But it was all so good. So definitely like a food is food is like a major highlight there.   [00:36:06.780] So you go at happy hour at like five thirty and they have a selection of wines and beer. I don't even know if they had cocktails. I think it's wine and beer and then like a little like aperitif, you know, you had at one night was like a prosciutto wrapped date.   [00:36:21.760] - Tamara Gruber And one night was like a deviled eggs, you know. So you had these little like snacks with your drinks. And that's the time where people can socialize if, you know, if they want to. So like there was oh, we just sat at our table because we were already in, like, that large area with our reserved table. So we would just sit there. But then there was this one group, like a big family group that would gather by the fireplace.   [00:36:40.890] - Tamara Gruber And sometimes they were a little forgetful when it came to like putting on their mask, when they stood up to walk to back to the bar or whatever. But luckily, like, we're like, OK, we're over here. You stay over there. Yeah, but it felt weird to, like, not be super friendly, you know, like it's the kind of thing where usually you'd have more interaction with people. But then what do we do? The next day we went and we did cross country skiing because Glenn really wanted to try that. And all I can say. Have you done cross-country before?   [00:37:07.860] - Kim Tate I have once. Paul is really into cross-country skiing and something they did in Edmonton a lot.   [00:37:12.180] - Tamara Gruber But yeah, I could see that because he's like the triathlon kind of guy. Yeah, yeah. It's not my thing. That's all I'll really say we were doing.   [00:37:20.820] - Tamara Gruber It was funny because we were gearing up and they said, like, it's not really great conditions for it because it's a little too icy, because that day it was like a little bit snowy, a little bit, it was still pretty cold in the morning there. It's like it's better in the afternoon. But we wanted to do something else in the afternoon and we're only there for a couple of days. So we didn't have like a ton of choice.   [00:37:39.330] - Tamara Gruber And so we're like, you know what, it's included. This is our chance to try it. Let's just go and do it. And they kept saying, like, oh, like when you fall, this is what you do.   [00:37:47.460] - Tamara Gruber And I'm like, fall. Like, isn't this just like walking? Like, when are we going to fall on cross country? And they do have like groomed trails, but they took us into like backcountry. And so then we were going like up a hill and then we had to go downhill. And I, I had no idea how different the skis are, you know. So, like, there's just I'm used to being able to, like, dig in or like control.   [00:38:09.750] - Kim Tate And it's just, you know, was your heel is free.   [00:38:12.430] - Tamara Gruber So, yeah, I'm like walking and the edges, there's just not like the edges that you have in downhill.   [00:38:16.710] - Kim Tate No, not at all. Yeah. So you stay, the whole idea is like, I mean I guess some people like plow but when I that time I went cross-country skiing. You're kind of in a rut of already done.   [00:38:28.530] - Tamara Gruber So you kind of I think it would have been cool if we did like the groomed trail but. But they're groomed trail was more like almost like a track, like an overall kind of thing. And then they it's more used to get people comfortable with it and then they go out to backcountry. Yeah. So like that part, I mean we made it fine. It was fine. Hannah actually really liked it and she liked like going ahead and laughing at us a bit.   [00:38:51.120] - Tamara Gruber But I just, I definitely love snowshoeing. So I'm like I don't think I would choose like cross country over snowshoeing. You know, I just I, you know, me and my control, like, I like to be in control and like, it's so easy to be in control.   [00:39:06.720] - Kim Tate Snowshoeing is better for that with than cross country. Yeah. I took out, yeah. I took out my father in law because I didn't know anything about it or how to stop and he had stopped to like look at something.I just kept going. I don't know what to do. So it's kind of funny. I mean it we were fine but yeah.   [00:39:25.260] - Tamara Gruber Yeah that was cool to get to try that, you know, and then the next thing we did didn't end up quite as well, but we went snow tubing and again, it's like a little bit icy. And so they have, you know, there this is just all on their property.   [00:39:40.710] - Tamara Gruber So they have a hill where they have kind of, you know, trails. But it's not like this. Quite the same grooming that you would have, you know, if you went to a ski resort type of of snow tubing. But they pull you up in a snowmobile, so they take you up there up to the hill on the snowmobile, you tube down, then they snowmobile you back up, you know, so that's kind of cool. And it was a lot of fun.   [00:40:00.450] - Tamara Gruber Like, we were definitely having a ton of fun, like Glenn and Hannah were going down, like in Hannah. And I did it, too, like together together, you know, and like, go down. But when you went down, you were going really fast.   [00:40:10.680] - Tamara Gruber They're like it's really slick, just so you know. So if you. Want to slow down like you use your foot to, like, kind of slow you down, like it's better if you went on your belly. We're usually like sit in the tube, you know, go on your belly and then you can, like, control it a little bit more.   [00:40:23.870] - Tamara Gruber And then at the bottom, they had some, like, barriers. And it's like you don't really want to go past the barrier because you're not going to go off a cliff. But it's it's not going to be great if you keep going, you know.   [00:40:32.150] - Tamara Gruber So I would always, you know, slow myself down, but it definitely was getting sicker and sicker. And then Glenn and Hannah, which we're almost it was almost going to be like the end anyway, like we're almost at the end of the day. But he went and then I saw, like, the two of them went like because there's two runs and I was waiting at the top. And then I went down. I kind of saw Glenn go like, oh, you know.   [00:40:52.790] - Tamara Gruber And then I was like, oh, what happens? I get down to the bottom and he can't stand because he he was using his foot to slow down and he felt something. And then when he went to stand up afterwards, the snow is like really deep, but it was just a little bit crusty on top. So then you kind of fall through and you might you know, you might be like a couple feet deep and snow and you have to, like, lift your foot out.   [00:41:13.970] - Tamara Gruber And so he kind of fell in to someone's like hole and then his foot, like he just felt something so like a few to three years, two years ago, he fractured his foot doing, you know, like he was doing a half marathon.   [00:41:27.650] - Tamara Gruber He was running a lot and he had like a stress fracture. So he says that this is what it felt like. So that was not the ideal end to our little trip. Yeah, it's a bummer because it sounds like you guys were having such a good time.   [00:41:40.610] - Kim Tate And then now it's a, you know, kind of like the end as calmly as you want it.   [00:41:46.160] - Tamara Gruber And then, yeah, it was especially great that while at least I was like, OK, let's like put ice on it and wrap it and like, put it up and just like, relax for a while and like see how you feel. But then he called a friend and the friend was like, you really should get x rays before you go, like all the way home, because we're leaving the next morning to start at 10, 12 hour drive to Kansas.   [00:42:07.160] - Tamara Gruber And so then I was like, I really think I have to go get x rays. And by this point it's like five o'clock. And I'm like, well, by the time I get you to Steamboat Springs, like we're missing dinner here. And then we're driving back here at night after dark, which not like great roads for driving after dark when you're not familiar with them.   [00:42:26.510] - Tamara Gruber And then we're just getting up and leaving the next morning and we're we'll have to drive back, pass through Steamboat Springs, you know, like we were north and we needed to go south. So I was like, OK, I think what we should do is just pack up and check out early and I should take it as Steamboat Springs and then like, let's just stay down there and then start our drive from there in the morning. It just, you know, it just wasn't worth it to come back, like just for breakfast and so sad, like we only really had to two nights there, but it worked out like we drove down.   [00:42:56.810] - Tamara Gruber I got us all packed up and checked out and we drove down to Steamboat Springs and dropped them off at the hospital for X-rays. I'm like, well, I can't come in anyway. So like, let me go take care of, like, getting gas in the car and finding where we can get some food to pick up and, you know, researching where to stay. And so, like, we could have stayed in Steamboat Springs, but we were kind of like, you know what, let's just drive down to 70, Interstate 70, so that in the morning, like, we definitely have less of a big drive tomorrow.   [00:43:22.340] - Tamara Gruber And so we we thought it was all going to be good. And we he was finally done at like eight o'clock. So it's like, you know, maybe before eight o'clock is like just turning dark and we start driving and we have to go up like over a mountain pass.   [00:43:36.950] - Tamara Gruber And I'm driving, of course, because he has like a boot and crutches and it starts snowing like swirling white out snow, like I can barely see. So I'm driving this mountain pass like I don't know how easy it is, you know what I mean? Like, is it is it really slick? Like, it was terrifying. I will tell you, like even like everyone in the car just like was quiet. So I could like, just very much focus on my drive.   [00:44:04.100] - Tamara Gruber And I was like gripping that wheel and going like twenty five miles an hour and just trying to be so careful because, you know, like it's a mountain pass in Colorado, like.   [00:44:14.180] - Tamara Gruber Yeah. And all I could think was if I pull over, are we going to end up one of those people that like died on the side of the road because they froze overnight. And, you know, like, what if it gets worse, you know, versus better?   [00:44:25.220] - Tamara Gruber And so I just, like, pushed through. And when we finally started coming back down, at least it stopped snowing. But then I was like, still so tense, like the rest of the drive. It was like a two hour drive to get like south to Interstate 70 because, you know, it's just dark and small mountain road. And then we had to look out for deer. There's all these signs for Deer Crossing. And they even I saw a couple bridges.   [00:44:48.500] - Tamara Gruber So I think it's where they've made those like wildlife. Yeah. Crossing thing. Crossing things. Yeah. Yeah. So and and the people at the hospital had warned Glen, like, if you're driving that way, like watch out for deer. So, you know, we finally made it to our hotel and it was good that we were plant we had booked ahead because when we got there the hotel parking lot was jammed. And so I dropped Glenn and he ran off up front, you know, because he has crutches and they went in to check in and like I.   [00:45:12.700] - Tamara Gruber To go park so far away and as I got out of the car, I realized a lot of people were actually sleeping in the car and their cars were running. And I'm like, what's going on? And then I realized that, like, they had closed Interstate 70 because of snow. And people were just, like, waiting it out there, I think.   [00:45:30.520] - Tamara Gruber So I'm like, oh, I'm really glad that I had booked the hotel room and I'm glad that we didn't plan to go any further. But I was so exhausted. We got there and I was like, I just need a minute. Like, I just I need to decompress. Like it was I was at the point that stressful. Yeah, I felt like breaking down in tears. I was just like, I need to like, let out all the stress, like I was so like I just really needed to breathe for a little bit.   [00:46:01.570] - Tamara Gruber I really, really enjoyed the ranch part and then from there we just, you know, we headed home and we, we stayed. I will give a lot of credit to Marriott because we booked a lot of our hotels with points and we ended up on the way back, like having to adjust.   [00:46:16.720] - Tamara Gruber Like, I just like to have our hotels booked on a road trip because I don't know, like I'm just worried. Like, what about the thing like with, you know, Interstate 70 and like the hotel gets sold out or, you know, something like that. So we're planning on stopping in. You will know. Is it Seleena or Salina? Salina, yeah.   [00:46:34.180] - Tamara Gruber So we were planning on stopping there, but because we had started from, you know, like an earlier like because we had already gone south and we were starting it was going to be not as long a drive. We're like, let's just push on and go a little further. And so we decided to push on. I don't even remember where we stopped, but it was like closer to Kansas City. I think it was still in Kansas, like, I seriously can't even remember. But we called, you know, on at least it brought us like another hour or two, you know, like, yeah, further east.   [00:47:03.310] - Tamara Gruber And so Glen called and he had you know, he's so big into his like, I got the email the day before, you know, because I'm like, whatever status does in already. So, yeah, we want to change it. But he's already checked in like .   [00:47:15.700] - Tamara Gruber And so I was like, well you need to call because like if y'all like maybe they'll say something, you know, they'll let you. So they were like, OK, we're canceling it. But, you know, you booked this with a certificate, so you're going to have to call like Marriott to get it, like reinstated. So then luckily I'm driving because Glenns. But, you know, so he's calling. He gets them to, like, give him back his points and then immediately, like, we rebooked somewhere else, like with the points.   [00:47:41.770] - Tamara Gruber So it was all like very seamless. Yeah, it was great.   [00:47:44.680] - Tamara Gruber So we did that and then. Oh I think it was Topeka. Oh I think that's where we stopped.There was a very good coffee shop across the street. That's all I know. Which I don't, you know, I don't even drink coffee but it was really cool.   [00:48:07.150] - Kim Tate I saw people become coffee drinkers just because like when the craze of the coffee shop aspect and then, like, working at home, I think people it's kind of funny to think that way, but I'm convinced.   [00:48:18.700] - Tamara Gruber Yeah, it was. And then. Yeah. So the next day we just had to drive to St. Louis and so we got there and you know, you and I had talked about on a previous episode like that, we were going to go to the arch and so I had bought tickets in advance. And it's another thing, just like the Rock Hall of Fame, where it was such a better experience because there were hardly any people, you know.   [00:48:38.800] - Tamara Gruber So I bought the tickets in advance, which is good. When we showed up, there was a big sign that was like we're sold out for the day, but we had something at the end of the day anyway. So we got there. We didn't have time to do the museum downstairs first because we were a little like five minutes late for our tram, you know, up to the top. You did that, which definitely it is.   [00:48:58.540] - Tamara Gruber If you've not done it is not good for claustrophobic people. So it's like these little pods. I don't know if you remember from when you went, but it's like this little round pod that, like, you get in. But they've done it.   [00:49:09.310] - Tamara Gruber It's kind of like a Disney ride now. So like you get a boarding pass and you stand on like Circle five and then you're going to be in pod five. And somehow in normal times, they could fit like five or six people in these pods. And I have no idea, like a gondola pod.   [00:49:28.810] - Tamara Gruber But then you're going up. I mean, it's kind of fascinating technology because first we're like, how do they do this? Like how do you go up on an angle.   [00:49:36.010] - Tamara Gruber So you have to like read about how they do it. But it's like because it's like a you know, like a round pod, they can like, rotate it like you don't feel it. But anyway, it's it's interesting, but it does have like a glass door. So then you can like, look down. So that's also not so great for some people. Even Hannah was like, I don't really like this, but it's like I think three minutes up or like maybe four minutes up, three minutes down or something like that.   [00:49:59.710] - Tamara Gruber But then when you get to the top, you have an assigned viewing window. So like we were window five and one on both sides.   [00:50:07.150] - Tamara Gruber So no one, you know, like you're not fighting with anyone for like a photo. No one's leaning into your. Like, you have your own little window again, and I didn't love it because you had to, she's getting like a little bit nervous with some heights you had to, like, lean just like you said, like you have to lean to look out the window.   [00:50:24.540] - Tamara Gruber Yeah, but and also it had been raining and so it was pretty foggy, but it was still is a pretty view. I'm glad we did it. We went downstairs. There was a really cool museum, which, you know, a lot of things.   [00:50:35.130] - Tamara Gruber She's like, oh, that's in our AP history class. And, you know, like all the, you know, things that she had learned recently. So it's a nice museum. Then they were closing. So we left and we had to leave the building. But it's pouring torrential rain when we walk out and we have to walk like ten minutes back to the hotel. And so we were like, well, like we just have to walk. Like, I hadn't brought an umbrella and I had a coat that's at least like water-Resistant, but hers was not really. And luckily it wasn't freezing, freezing cold, but it was so torrential, like we were laughing, like we were just so completely soaked, like to our skin that we were just laughing. And we got there.We walked in and Glen was like, oh, my God. Like, look at you guys. And like, the front of our pants were like a completely different color than, like the back of our pants.   [00:51:28.710] - Tamara Gruber Are you sure that I could feel the water like running down my leg inside my pants, like into my shoe. It was so bad but it was like funny. So we immediately were like, OK, we're like stripping out of this. I think we yeah.   [00:51:41.160] - Tamara Gruber We did like a room service, like drop off thing for dinner and we got into like the robes and stuff. Oh. And this was the place it's called Hotel St. Louis. It's an autograph collection of Marriott. And it is it was great. Like it was a beautiful, historic kind of property. And are we again got a suite like Glen did the upgrade thing with his points. And it was a huge, beautiful suite. And it had this big bathroom with like this nice shower stall and a tub. But it had something I've never seen before. And it had a heated toilet seat with like a built in bidet. But like when I pulled off those wet pants and I sat on that toilet seat and it kind of like, OK, I

So Hannah is back on this week as Steve is busy with college work. We chat about Episode one of Season 4 of the Crown which deals with the killing of Lorn Mountbatten by the IRA in 1979. We also chat about Harry Styles being on the cover of Vogue. We finish up with a quick chat about how things are going in our relationship since Hannah moved in 2 months ago. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

It's our 1st Birthday today! So Hannah has dropped in with a quick bonus birthday message. --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/psykhe/message

So Hannah let us know that there is a thing called perineum sunning. Have you heard of this? Listen and find out and answer the question, what would you do for happiness? Also check out the tips we gave for self talk and a good mindset. Follow the show on IG & Twitter @podcastdope Follow our Life Coaching account on IG & Twitter @_wittyvice Follow host Chris on IG & Twitter @reallydopename Follow host Hannah on IG @banana___hannah (3 underscores) Here are some links for journals we talked about The Five-Minute Journal https://www.amazon.com/Five-Minute-Journal-Happier-Minutes/dp/0991846206/ref=sr_1_6?crid=3OQZP9MOD1MXN&keywords=3+minute+journal&qid=1579594092&sprefix=3+minute+jour%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-6 Two Minute Mornings https://www.amazon.com/Two-Minute-Mornings-Journal-Every/dp/1452163464/ref=sr_1_11?crid=3OQZP9MOD1MXN&keywords=3+minute+journal&qid=1579594092&sprefix=3+minute+jour%2Caps%2C172&sr=8-11 Q&A a Day for Kids: A Three Year Journal https://www.amazon.com/Q-Day-Kids-Three-Year-Journal/dp/0307952967/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=3+year+journal+for+kids&qid=1579594413&sr=8-2 One Question a Day for Kids: A Three Year Journal https://www.amazon.com/One-Question-Day-Kids-Three-Year/dp/1250166519/ref=sr_1_3?keywords=3+year+journal+for+kids&qid=1579594413&sr=8-3 --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/1-cent-each-podcast/message

Stress is affecting so many people, in fact, it's a global pandemic and what we've all discovered is that the shallow, band aid solutions that the world offers us simply don't work. What we need to alleviate stress is power, power to deal with the stress in our lives once and for all.   Have a Cheerful Heart And sometimes we need to be pretty direct, pretty blunt about dealing with the blockages in our lives that are interrupting the flow of the power of God in our life. Because God means to bring all His power to bear to deal with the stress that we suffer from, but sometimes, we're working against Him and then we're wondering – hang on, where's that power that Jesus promised? So … … Sorry to be a bit blunt here, but it doesn't hurt every now and then we need to look in the mirror and ask ourselves some questions like that. So – are you one of those people that exudes joy or sadness; a positive outlook, or a negative outlook; encouragement or discouragement? Which one are you? Are you a sad sack? Or do you fluctuate between the two – up on the mountain-tops one day, down in the dumps the next? The reason I'm asking is that if you're someone who spends more than a little time down in the dumps, then it's having an impact on you … it's having an impact on the people around you … and it's having an impact on your relationship with them. That's pretty far-reaching. Because if we damage relationships, we damage career prospects, we damage marriages, we damage our children. This is serious stuff. Stress is debilitating and a negative, untrusting attitude that focuses on the problem rather than the on the God who can make all the difference, interrupts the power that He wants to pour out on us. On top of that, the world wants us to believe that we can wave a magic wand and make stress disappear. Here's what one of those body and soul web sites recommends. Ten quirky stress busters it's called. Chew gum, eat chocolate (oh that'll be just fine and dandy when you come down off your sugar high), get a cat, keep a diary, do some yoga, hum a tune, blow up a balloon, snack on walnuts (Well, that is a lot better than sugar filled gum and chocolate I have to admit), have a laugh or ring your mum. Oh please … stress is so much deeper and more profound in our lives. It's a constant companion for many, many people – everything stresses them, or if not everything, then they go through prolonged periods of stress over one or two very important issues or situations in their lives. You've probably figured out that eating walnuts (as good as that maybe for you) is not going to solve the problems in your life or relieve your stress. At least I'm hoping you have. You see the world's answer to stress is to conjure something up out of nothing. Or to apply en external band-aid, to heal a deep, internal wound. Have you ever had this experience? You're driving along in the car and it's bright and sunny – so you pop your sunglasses on. But gradually the clouds roll in and at some point you're thinking, it is so dark and gloomy today. Then you realise you're wearing your sunnies so you take them off and it's only then you realise that it's nowhere near as dark and gloomy as you thought it was. Sure the clouds have rolled in, sure it's overcast, but not that dark and gloomy. The attitudes of our hearts are a lot like those sunglasses. Some people are walking through difficult times, with a gloomy, darkened heart, and so the whole experience feels about a hundred times worse than what it really is. God knows that and that's why He's concerned over the state of your heart. Have a listen to some of the things He says in His Word about what's going on in your heart: An anxious heart weighs you down, but a kind word, cheers you up. (Proverbs 12:25) A happy heart makes the face cheerful, but heartache crushes the spirit. (Proverbs 15:13) A cheerful heart is good medicine, but a crushed spirit dries up the bones. (Proverbs 17:22) God's interested in the state of your heart. He's interested in what's going on in your life. Now last time we chatted about how to get God's peace guarding your heart and your mind – do you remember? Philippians Chapter 4, verses 6 and 7: Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Simply by praying instead of worrying, giving thanks, laying out our worries and concerns and needs openly before God, He will replace the fear and stress and worry with His peace which will actually guard your heart and your mind. Imagine, God's peace standing guard around you to keep worry and stress away. That's a pretty good deal. But what the Apostle Paul goes on to say straight after that – writing as he is from his cell on death row – is equally instructive in terms of how to foster that peace and how to keep the cheerfulness and joy that God's peace brings, strong in our inside. Philippians 4:8,9: Finally, beloved, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is pleasing, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence and if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Keep on doing the things that you have learned and received and heard and seen in me, and the God of peace will be with you. So, instead of mulling over the bad stuff and what might go wrong, think about the good stuff. Now, you might say to me, I can't control what I think. Sure you can. When you find yourself thinking about something negative, you can choose to think about something positive. Try it, it actually works – and if you're struggling you go back to prayer and the Holy Spirit, who is – remember – guarding your heart and mind with God's peace, that same Holy Spirit is right there in you to be a part of that and to help you. Jesus referred to the Holy Spirit as your counsellor and comforter. And now the exciting thing that happens, is that we get benefit from that on the inside, but other people, the people around us get benefit from that as it oozes out of us on the outside. Do you want to be glum? Do you really want to spend the rest of your life being downcast? Do you want to be feeling down in the dumps all the time? Of course you don't. So now you implement these two simple things – pray instead of worrying, and when you find your mind wandering into the down things, grab it back – with the help of the Holy Spirit who is on your inside and who's on your side – and focus it on the good stuff. The stuff that God is about in your life. The things that bring you joy, the things that God's doing, God's faithfulness, the fantastic things He's done in the past. And now, you are living a much, much better life on the inside. You're at peace. Your heart is cheerful – Jesus wants you to have a cheerful heart. Remember what He said to His disciples, John 16:33: In this world you will have tribulation, but be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world. So, now your life is much better, now this peace and joy is oozing out of you, and all of a sudden – you can't help it – you want to encourage others. You're having an impact on their life: A cheerful look brings joy to the heart and good news gives health to the bones. (Proverbs 15:30) So the cheerful look on your face is going to bring joy to someone else's heart. The encouraging word that you give to them, the good news that you can share with them, is going to give health and life to their bones. Your joy touches their lives. Your life improves. Their life improves. Your relationship with them improves. All because you took the time and the wisdom of God to lay hold of the peace and the joy that God has for you. Talk about a stress buster! Not bad, eh? And on top of all that, the Bible tells us that the joy of the Lord is your strength. Do you get it? When we let the joy of God fill us amidst the gloom, all of a sudden, we experience His strength, and His power.   Lift Up Your Eyes Well, over these last few weeks, we've been chatting about how to deal with the stress in our lives. Not that all stress is bad – some stress from time to time helps to get things done, gets us to sharpen our game and deliver and perform. Think about an athlete about to run the 100 metre dash at the Olympics will harness that nervous energy, let's call it, as they line up on the starting blocks. That's a good thing. It's just not good, if we're constantly living our lives under stress. And so we've been chatting –in this series that I've called Stress Busters – about dealing with the root cause of the stress. No band-aid solutions, like listening to soothing music, or having a nice cup of tea, or patting your cat. They're all nice and lovely, but when we're under real stress, all those things do is alleviate the symptoms for a short time. What we need, is to deal with the root cause of the stress. Now immediately people think stress, root cause – oh right. It's that person, that situation, that medical diagnosis, that thing out there – that's what I have to deal with. Well, perhaps you do. But pressure and stress are two different things. Those things out there put pressure on us. But stress is all about how we react to them, so if we're looking for the root cause of our stress, it lies inside us, in our hearts, in our minds. In what we feel and what we think. So we've chatted in this series about some real, stress busters. Things that deal with the root cause. Learning to trust in God. Learning how to develop a quiet confidence in Him and how to pray the prayer of peace. How to have a cheerful heart – if you missed any of those messages, you'll find them all in the Series Stress Busters on our website christianityworks.com. So … I'd like to bring all of those lessons together in a practical, case study if you will, by sharing the story of a woman called Hannah. She was the Prophet Samuel's mother in the Old Testament of the Bible. But as with many of the great things that God is doing, Samuel's entry into the world wasn't an easy one. At least, not for Hannah. It was a very stressful time. In fact, she was deeply, deeply distressed over a long period of time. So just sit back and have a listen to her story – it's real, it's stressful … and it's beautiful. Here we go, 1 Samuel 1:1–18: There was a certain man of Ramathaim, a Zuphite from the hill country of Ephraim, whose name was Elkanah son of Jeroham son of Elihu son of Tohu son of Zuph, an Ephraimite. He had two wives; the name of the one was Hannah, and the name of the other Peninnah. Peninnah had children, but Hannah had no children.  Now this man used to go up year by year from his town to worship and to sacrifice to the Lord of hosts at Shiloh, where the two sons of Eli, Hophni and Phinehas, were priests of the Lord. On the day when Elkanah sacrificed, he would give portions to his wife Peninnah and to all her sons and daughters; but to Hannah he gave a double portion, because he loved her, though the Lord had closed her womb. Her rival used to provoke her severely, to irritate her, because the Lord had closed her womb. So it went on year by year; as often as she went up to the house of the Lord, she used to provoke her. Therefore Hannah wept and would not eat. Her husband Elkanah said to her, ‘Hannah, why do you weep? Why do you not eat? Why is your heart sad? Am I not more to you than ten sons?' After they had eaten and drunk at Shiloh, Hannah rose and presented herself before the Lord. Now Eli the priest was sitting on the seat beside the doorpost of the temple of the Lord. She was deeply distressed and prayed to the Lord, and wept bitterly. She made this vow: 'O Lord of hosts, if only you will look on the misery of your servant, and remember me, and do not forget your servant, but will give to your servant a male child, then I will set him before you as a nazirite until the day of his death. He shall drink neither wine nor intoxicants, and no razor shall touch his head.' As she continued praying before the Lord, Eli observed her mouth. Hannah was praying silently; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard; therefore Eli thought she was drunk. So Eli said to her, ‘How long will you make a drunken spectacle of yourself? Put away your wine.' But Hannah answered, ‘No, my lord, I am a woman deeply troubled; I have drunk neither wine nor strong drink, but I have been pouring out my soul before the Lord. Do not regard your servant as a worthless woman, for I have been speaking out of my great anxiety and vexation all this time.' So Eli answered, ‘Go in peace; the God of Israel grant the petition you have made to him.' And she said, ‘Let your servant find favour in your sight.' Then the woman went to her quarters, ate and drank with her husband, and her countenance was sad no longer. It's a beautiful story isn't it? You can't help but feel for Hannah and what she was going through. It was a really big thing in that culture for her not to be able to have a child. The basic belief was that if you were a good person who honoured God, He would bless you with many children. But if you weren't, He wouldn't. So Hannah was looked down upon by all in sundry. Particularly, Penniniah, her rival we're told. The other wife who was delivering plenty of sons. Just imagine how much stress this was putting on Hannah. Firstly, she couldn't have children – any woman whose body clock is ticking and who desperately wants kids but can't have them – knows how devastating that is, just on it's own. But now add to that the constant niggling and whispering and derision from ‘her rival' – there they were, these two women, competing for their husband's affections – I just can't begin to imagine what an awful, additional layer of stress that heaped on Hannah. And then there were the social and religious expectations – everyone treating her like she was some sinner or leper. She could have spent the rest of her life wallowing in that morass of pain and self-pity. But Hannah took some decisive action. She poured it all out to God. Instead of constantly looking down at her terrible circumstances, she lifted her gaze and looked up to Him and, deeply distressed we're told, poured her heart out to God and asked Him to do something. And before she even got an answer, before she even fell pregnant, listen again to the impact of this prayer on her whole being, on her countenance, on her life: Then the woman went to her quarters, ate and drank with her husband, and her countenance was sad no longer. There you have it. The peace that passes all understanding. She did exactly what Paul the Apostle counselled his friends in Philippi to do over two thousand years later: Do not worry about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your request be made known to God and the peace that passes all understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. (Philippians 4:7,8) We don't need to clean up our act before we go to God. We don't have to be all confidence and self-assured and ‘together'. He just calls us to come as we are and pour it all out. And you should never, ever be afraid to do that. In fact elsewhere, in the New Testament book of Hebrews, this is what God says to us about this very thing: Let us therefore approach the throne of grace with boldness, so that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need. (Hebrews 4:16) Don't you love that word – with boldness. So as our time in this series – Stress Busters – draws to a close, let me counsel you to do exactly the same. Do what Hannah did – lift up your eyes and pour your stress out on God, and my friend, He will act. And whatever the outcome to your stressful situation, He will give you peace. That's just what He does. God is a God who brings His power to bear for the people whom He loves – His people, the people who have put their trust in Jesus His Son. He doesn't always take away the person or the situation that causes the stress, but what He does do, is He works in our hearts, He gives us strength and courage and joy and peace and power to remove the stress. But there's one thing … on thing that robs us of all that. And that's the thing we're going to talk about.   Blackout Have you ever been in a power blackout? Here where I live, they're quite rare. But in many parts of the world, they're a daily occurrence and in some parts of the world, there's no power at all. I travel quite a bit and I regularly find myself in places where there's no power or there are constant blackouts. In a sense, you get used to it pretty quickly. When you're sitting and talking in a meeting and the power goes out, you just keep on talking until either the generator cuts in, or … if there's no generator, until the power comes back on. It's just a fact of life. You learn to live with it. But when I come back home again, to a place where the power almost never goes out, I have to tell you, it's a much, much better way to live. I think in the three years that I've been living in our current apartment, we've lost power perhaps once or twice. Many people are living their lives, spiritually, emotionally, morally, either in a state of regular power outages, blackouts, or in a place without any power at all. And the thing that flicks the switch on God's power in their lives, is their sin. Have a listen to this, the Apostle Paul, Ephesians 1:17-21: I pray that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give you a spirit of wisdom and revelation as you come to know him, so that, with the eyes of your heart enlightened, you may know what is the hope to which he has called you, what are the riches of his glorious inheritance among the saints, and what is the immeasurable greatness of his power for us who believe, according to the working of his great power. God put this power to work in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the age to come. Paul's praying that his friends in Ephesus would realise the certain hope, the riches of their inheritance, and the immeasurable greatness of God's power that they already have in Christ. The very same power that raised Jesus from the dead and put Him above everything and everyone. Do you see – God means to bring that power, that life-giving power, to bear in your life, to give you the new life that Jesus died and rose again to give you. But when we rebel against God, when we turn our backs on Him through our sin, the power stops. Why? What good father would continue to reward and bless his child when the child is rebelling? As much as the father loves the child, he stops the flow of blessing, so that the child will realise its mistake, and come back to him. It's what dads do. And it's the same with God: Do not be deceived; God is not mocked, for you reap whatever you sow. If you sow to your own flesh, you will reap corruption from the flesh; but if you sow to the Spirit, you will reap eternal life from the Spirit. (Galatians 6:7) One of the most stressful things that we can ever do is to rebel against God – we talked about that earlier in this series. And as God calls us back to Him, often He turns the heat up on our stress, as we live through the consequences of our sin and our rebellion. When we keep struggling against and kicking against God, when we run away from His goodness and His plans for our life, man, be prepared for a wilderness experience, right? And I know that there are a few people in that place right at the moment. You're experiencing extreme stress, because you've turned your back on God. Well, in a moment we're going to pray together. And this is what we're going to pray about. Peter said to them: ‘Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ so that your sins may be forgiven; and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit'. (Acts 2:38) Do you see, when you repent, when you turn back to God, He promises you the power, the power of the Holy Spirit. The greatest stress buster of them all.

Dream Word – GIVE1 Samuel 1:9-11 So Hannah arose after they had finished eating and drinking in Shiloh. Now Eli the priest was sitting on the seat by the doorpost of the tabernacle of the Lord. And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed to the Lord and wept in anguish. Then she made a vow and said, "O Lord of hosts, if You will indeed look on the affliction of Your maidservant and remember me, and not forget Your maidservant, but will give Your maidservant a male child, then I will give him to the Lord all the days of his life, and no razor shall come upon his head." NKJVBarren Hannah was desperate for a child and in her most desperate of prayer, she promises to give the gift she hopes she shall receive, right back to God. Following the deal, very soon Samuel is born and Hannah does indeed follow through on her vow.All children are of course gifts from God and it does a person good to both realize this and act on it, for these good gifts are always kept longer and remain far fresher to us, when they are dedicated right back to the Giver, even God Himself. Indeed, even when relationships and children themselves go sour, the dedication of the same to God can form a very solid rock to stand on for the delivery of all our own most desperate prayers. In any event, please note tonight that ANY gift, including children, so selfishly consumed by us, will, in the end, corrupt us. Therefore, I tell you, that this is especially true if we eat our children, even consuming them in our own desires and making them the cherished idols of our hearts. Oh my! How many Christian parents set up their own children as idols of their own heart. If you are doing this, you had best watch out, for cannibalized children always give the very worst of tummy aches.Therefore, following the blessed example of the Holy Family and of Hannah, give back your gift to God! Dedicate them to the Lord and remember that this dedication back to God means both a letting go of and a laying hold of.As to letting go, you must remember that this child is not yours. It shall grow and shall become, and in all of its own becoming, the child shall decide on so many things for itself, including whether or not they shall choose to follow the Lord. You must have faith in letting the child of your care be found by the God that you love. Yes, do all you possibly can to help them, and do all you possibly can to develop into who they truly are, but then, let them go as you prayerfully deliver them to God.As to laying hold, well, you must lay hold of Your God and of yourself. It is imperative as a parent that you grow in grace and in the knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ. As the child becomes, and as the child decides, you must lay hold of God on their behalf. You must also lay hold of yourself, for you must become a model of Godliness before them, a mentor of graciousness and hope, a mother of love, a father prayer, and care, and a father of manly courage, wisdom, perseverance and provision. The child will become, and will make its own decisions, you are not responsible for this. However, you are greatly responsible for laying hold of both God Himself and of you yourself!So, whatever you do tonight, do not set up your children as you idols and do not selfishly consume your kids, yes, you must not eat your children.Finally, may I offer a couple of observations with respect to your letting go of your child. First then, that in terms of prayer, you must never let go, no matter how old they are. Keep praying for them. Look now, for life always has its demands on people, and life's demands will call your children away, and their absence will take its toll, just as much as rebellion in chiSupport the show (http://www.victorrobert.tv)

In episode 72, Mikayla brings on Hannah Ashton to chat all things RELIGION. Yep! We know some of you listening have wondered how to tie in your religion with manifesting and Hannah breaks it down for us. She's Christian but into manifesting her goals! So Hannah is sharing her daily practices and devotions, how she allows her beliefs to support her, evolving with your belief system and so much more. Then the girls chat about Hannah's all in one Dream Achieve Workbook! IT'S HERE!!! THE LEVEL UP LUXE LOUNGE. Click here for details!! Your luxury lounge to hang in and learn about the level up laws of the universe! FOUNDERS PRICING ONLY $37 FOR THE FIRST 100 BABES. In this episode: + Beliefs and childhood influence + Religion for support and the "why" + Daily practices and devotions + Dream Achieve Workbook and rituals CONNECT WITH HANNAH ON INSTAGRAM HERE. GET 'DREAM ACHIEVE' WORKBOOK HERE. MIKAYLA'S EPISODE ON HANNAH'S PODCAST - ITUNES HERE. MANIFESTATION MODE – Plaid trench coat! FREE MEDITATION HERE! Can't get enough? Check out the blog at mikaylajai.com and on Insta at Instagram.com/themikaylajai --- This episode is sponsored by · Anchor: The easiest way to make a podcast. https://anchor.fm/app

The chaos of Judges has seeped into the beginning of Samuel. A women barren of children, a priesthood barren of morality, and a nation barren of the word of a god. So Hannah prays. And the word of God is birthed through the prophet Samuel. We too are barren. Negative emotions are difficult to face. But the only way to fruitfulness is to address and confront these emotions. And prayer creates an excelllent space to do so.

The chaos of Judges has seeped into the beginning of Samuel. A women barren of children, a priesthood barren of morality, and a nation barren of the word of a god. So Hannah prays. And the word of God is birthed through the prophet Samuel. We too are barren. Negative emotions are difficult to face. But the only way to fruitfulness is to address and confront these emotions. And prayer creates an excelllent space to do so.

The chaos of Judges has seeped into the beginning of Samuel. A women barren of children, a priesthood barren of morality, and a nation barren of the word of a god. So Hannah prays. And the word of God is birthed through the prophet Samuel. We too are barren. Negative emotions are difficult to face. But the only way to fruitfulness is to address and confront these emotions. And prayer creates an excelllent space to do so.

The chaos of Judges has seeped into the beginning of Samuel. A women barren of children, a priesthood barren of morality, and a nation barren of the word of a god. So Hannah prays. And the word of God is birthed through the prophet Samuel. We too are barren. Negative emotions are difficult to face. But the only way to fruitfulness is to address and confront these emotions. And prayer creates an excelllent space to do so.

Last week in our Equiosity podcast we greeted our first guest, Hannah Brannigan. Our conversation with Hannah continues. In the previous episode we stopped just as Hannah made the very intriguing statement that in the past many of the things that we would have thought were fixed, such as an animal's structure, can be changed through good training. We pick up with a discussion of what that means and why should we bother? What are the benefits that we have observed in our own animals? As always, it is good to begin at the beginning, which in Hannah’s case means talking about her new puppy. Where do you start? That was the question that was posed. Hannah is teaching her puppy reinforcement strategies. So that’s where the conversation took us. What does that look like? How do you teach a variety of reinforcement strategies? Hannah wants to be able to switch back and forth between activities in which the animal is very calm and still, and activities in which there is more movement and arousal. Hannah’s new puppy was very play motivated, but not that interested in food. So Hannah described the process for teaching a dog that isn’t interested in the type of reinforcer you are offering (food or toy) to become more interested in that reinforcer. The same procedure could be used for horses who aren’t that interested in taking treats. We end with a question about reinforcement variety. With dogs there are lots of ways you can reinforce them. With horses it seems we use mostly food treats. What are some of the ways we can expand our reinforcement variety?

1 Samuel 1:9 So Hannah arose after they had finished eating and drinking in Shiloh. Now Eli the priest was sitting on the seat by the doorpost of the tabernacle of the Lord. 10 And she was in bitterness of soul, and prayed to the Lord and wept in anguish. 11 Then she made a… The post Mother’s Day Message appeared first on Riverside Church.

Highlights of my conversation with Hannah McIntyre ·         Inspiration for launching Futrli formerly Crunchboards ·         The early design of Futrli ·         Working in a global community ··      Business support in Britain ·         Moving from compliance to value add   Transcript Hannah, what did you like to do when you were 12 years old? Hannah:        Oh my goodness. Probably take my sister into a room and beat her up.  No, that’s a ridiculous thing to say. What do I like to do? I lived in the middle of nowhere in the countryside in the north east of Scotland, so in the summer holidays which would be your winter, your version of your winter, our summer holidays … we did get some sun in the north east of Scotland, it would be a case of, “Right kids, we’ll see you at tea time and we’d be out on our bikes fishing and doing all this sort of Huckleberry Finn sorts of things. Yes, I was a bit of an outdoorsy girl. Heather:        Cool, you were out on the heather moors of Scotland? Hannah:        Well yes, something like that, or being thrown into the north sea with the beautiful beaches that we had. My mum going, “Get in there ya big Jessy.” “It’s ice cold mum and from the Baltic.” But it held no sway with her. We just had to man up and get in there. Heather:        Sensational. So Hannah, what inspired you to launch CrunchBoards? Hannah         Need actually. We had a … Amy and I had ourselves a company before CrunchBoard with a hospitality vertical, it was a back office system. We had that for a couple of years and had been using Xero, probably one of the first adopters of Xero in the UK, coming up for four years ago now. It changed my life completely as the one who does all the books for the business. I’d been using Sage desktop for a long, long time in a previous business that I had, manually exporting all the data, putting it into a spreadsheet for management accountancy information, future projections, all these things that the repetition and the inefficiencies that … and the headache quite frankly that that caused, was the inspiration for the original business, for the hospitality software. But whilst we were building that out, we were looking, or I was in particular, we were looking for a solution for ourselves. We were giving all these instant management accounts to the hospitality sector. I said, “Hold on a second. It would be great if I could have this functionality too.” So we went out, did a load of assessment and looked into the markets for the add-ons as they were, probably come out for a year and a half ago now. Obviously they’re vastly more in the market space now than they were then, and trialled all the solutions that were out there and none of them were a solution for us. I think primarily because they hadn’t been designed from the business owner up, they had been designed for the accountant down. That affords different problems. So guess what? I’d be pulling all the information out because they were putting it into a spreadsheet and back to square one again for the management information and future projections. So we did a load of interviews because if I was suffering in this way, then I’m sure a lot of other people were, and then that kind of led to the fact well then hold on a second, people started to mention, “Well my accountant this …” “My accountant that …” We started speaking to accountants too. This was a pretty big issue getting real time flexible, and that’s what spreadsheets do for you, they’re a blank canvas aren’t they? What do you want to build? Well, you build whatever you want. It’s your business. You know your metrics, your KPIs, you build what you need. That’s what we wanted to build with CrunchBoard. I spent a long time kind of designing it. Didn’t even tell Amy what I was doing in the background. Then we started to plan the design and started our first line of code actually was written 1st December last year. It’s been pretty fast. We’re coming up for our first code writing anniversary next week. Heather:        Definitely was very fast. You said you designed from the business owner up, which is a really interesting concept. I guess a lot of things are … it’s interesting where they’re being designed from. Who are you selling to, the accountant or the business owner? Hannah:        Absolutely both. From a commercial point of view, certainly the accountant because Xero realised that early doors that, “Yes, it’s for the business owner but actually there’s a complete avenue there to go down.” However, that for me has become really exciting because absolutely the core is to make … to demystify the numbers, to make analysis really, really super simple, easy, beautiful actually, you know, we take our inspiration from Xero strapline, “Well yes, actually I want to make my management information beautiful. I don’t ever want to have to create a pivot table again in my life. I don’t ever want to export data again.” So that’s kind of the core, however the journey that we’ve then gone on because of the accountant, for me particularly from the design side of things, has been really exciting because that then gives other solutions that you have to solve. On our board, on our CrunchBoards, you can view multiple clients side by side. It’s practise management and it’s a client experience too, and a lot of the reporting add-ons in particular are one or the other, they’re not often both, and that’s actually one thing that we’ve spoken about on Developer’s Day at Xerocon. It was nice to be able to say, “Well, actually, no, our product is definitely for both users.” The great thing is when the accountant actually shares a board with a client for the first time that they get this, “Oh my God, is that my business? Oh, and I can change that and I can change the date and I can view that the way I want to view it, not the way you think I want to view it.” So while we’re giving the accountant the tools, they are also then able to … and it’s a bit scary for them. I’m not going to lie. There’s some education happening around this but those who are adopting our product for their business are probably the early adopters in the bell curve that people talk about, and accountancy is changing. It’s not about compliance anymore and it certainly won’t be in five years’ time. Advisory is going to be huge, and those who are adopting tools like ours now are certainly ahead of the game in delivering an excellent client experience, and really empowering business owners with real time operational tools. It’s not a history lesson. It’s a live business plan to actually make your business better. Heather:        Absolutely. So you designed it in the early stages. What did that look like? What is you designing it in the early stages looking like? Hannah:        Okay, well as much as I bemoan excel, it does have its uses, doesn’t it? We’re still quite dev heavy actually, is our team, we’ve got seven developers. We’ve got a really big team which is amazing, which means that not only do we get to turn things around fairly quickly in development terms but also we’ve got a massive breadth of knowledge. Our design process is probably one of the most joyful parts of my life actually. I know it’s completely geeky isn’t it. It’s ridiculous. Honestly, if you had told Hannah McIntyre 10 years ago that I’d just say that, she’d probably just shake her head and go, “Who on earth are you?” But it’s a collaborative … it always starts with me and it’s a collaborative approach in as much as I’ll do the wire frames, the design, the rationale, the logic behind it, and then we’ll bring the team in to go, “Right, how can we make the user experience excellent? What can we do to make sure that from the beginning to the end of this process, it’s as few clicks as possible, it’s as effortless as possible?” So that’s the fun bit. Heather:        Cool. Are your team based there in …? Hannah:        They certainly are in Brighton. We have one in EastBourne but all the rest of them are in Brighton but we’re all got a pier that we can see, not from our windows, but fairly close. Heather:        Sensational. That’s actually quite unusual, especially for developers, they seem to be all over the place. Hannah:        Yes, so that’s important to me. I have to say that’s one thing that I’m really, really proud of is we are completely made in Britain. But it’s not just we’re local, we’re altogether we see each other regularly. They’re not all office based. Some of them work from home but we use software ourselves so that we’re all video streaming all the time and just click each other’s faces to start having a conversation. It just works. It works really, really well. Heather:        Absolutely. What’s been one of your biggest challenges along the way since launching CrunchBoards? Hannah:        I would probably say being taken … being so well received in Australia and New-Zealand, the antipodean region. It sounds a ridiculous thing to say that that’s a problem. It’s not been a problem. It’s a wonderful problem to solve but of course it’s meant … you met Amy my co-founder out there. She’s over doing a six week tour. Heather:        Absolutely. Hannah:        The time difference, it’s something that we’ve got to get around but luckily we don’t sleep. We are complete vampires, and that’s fine. We get the poly filler out in the morning and trowel it on and everything is good to go again. No, I mean it’s brilliant. It’s very exciting. We’re building an Australian team now which is super exciting, and in a million years, that was not part of the plan within the first year but it is now and that’s really exciting, but originally, a hurdle that we had to overcome with sound mind and some decent planning. Heather:        Yes, the time differences, which we can summarise that as, is a common thread I hear amongst the ad-on solutions. Hannah, you appeared on the cover of the inaugural addition of the XU Magazine, so I’ve got two questions for you. Tell us about the cover shoot and tell us about the impact the coverage had for your business. Hannah:        Oh that cover shoot where we are in mid-aid. I have to say we had the bonkers photographer. He said, “Just imagine that you’re jumping over a barrel.” I was like … well I don’t know why, maybe because I’m from the north east of Scotland but I said, “Can I imagine I’m jumping over a sheep?” which seems to work for me. Our New Zealand counterparts will probably like that. Yes, it was really good fun. We were there with the XU Magazine boys, and we just had a bit of a giggle with it all. That was good fun. What was the second question Heather, sorry? Heather:        What’s the impact the coverage has had for your business? Hannah:        Well, let’s use Xerocon Sydney as an example. People walked in, it was XU Magazine’s launch as well, great, we were on the cover. It absolutely helped with the fact that, you know, with who are these two in the double denim, what’s this? It was … of course it helped. Of course it helps and they’ve been incredibly supportive and continue to be so. Maybe it’s the British thing. Heather:        What I was interested in … I wasn’t trying to get a claim for XU Magazine. I was just interested in media coverage and stuff, and that’s great. Hannah:        Absolutely, it’s been … and actually, that wasn’t my response either. Seriously, it was really, really fantastic dovetailing. Before we went over there, when we got the phone call from Wes, it was just phenomenal, “Wow, we’re going over and we’re going to launch with a splash.” That was just brilliant. Heather:        Yes, it was massive. It made Xerocon Sydney fantastic. I’ve got quite a long question for you here. Doctor Gordon Patzer, who spent three decades researching physical attractiveness and says, “Human beings are hard wired to respond more favourably to attractive people,” to quote him, “Good looking men and women are generally regarded to be more talented, kind, honest and intelligent than their less attractive counterparts.” He contends that controlled studies show people go out of their way to help attractive people of the same sex and opposite sex because they want to be liked and accepted by good looking people. Do you see physical attractiveness more as something to be leveraged or your unfair advantage? Hannah:        Well, is that you giving me a sideways compliment Heather? Heather:        Yes, it was. Hannah:        That was a rather long way to do it. Thanks very much. Wow, okay, so this is one of those questions I have to think very carefully of how I answer I guess. No, I have two daughters and a stepson, and they are beautiful. Of course you always think your own children are beautiful. But I would say that it, wrongly probably, opens doors. However, if there’s no substance there behind it, then you’re dead in the water. Sometimes I actually think that perceived looks can hinder you because people make assessments about you before you’ve opened your mouth. I hope that Amy and I, as two females in the marketplace, are assessed on our product, what we’re bringing to the add-on eco system, and the way that we do business with integrity. Heather:        Absolutely. Hannah:        That’s all I guess I can say. I just hope that my kids embrace every opportunity they’ve got, and if they get given some more opportunities, then great but I’ll tell you what, they’ll have to work bloody hard to make a success of their life like their mum has to. Heather:        Absolutely. I know when you appeared on stage, the table I was with went silent, stunned, because you were a stunning, shining light there. Then you started speaking and one of them just went, “Bloody hell, she speaks English with an English accent as well!” They were, in a very loving way, amazed by you. How many customers does CrunchBoard need to be successful? Hannah:        Oh my goodness. We are meeting and exceeding our forecasts. I guess that’s a good thing. Heather:        Absolutely. Hannah:        We don’t need a set amount of customers I guess. It’s a case of building, you know, monthly recurring revenues as a business models is an interesting one, and maximising our potential in the antipodean region is absolutely what we’re focusing on at the moment. It’s lovely to see that we’ve got UKs signing up but actually we’re not pushing in the UK at the moment because we’ve got a focus there, and we’ve still got a small team. On the sales side of things we’re building that out now which is, again, another exciting step for us. We are thrilled with our progress. Heather:        That’s sensational. Hannah:        If we continue the way that we’re going then we’re in a really good place. Heather:        So it sounds like you’re a strong UK business with a heavy export focus. Are you getting assistance from the British export authorities – I don’t know what their name is – but the British export type authorities? Hannah:        It’s interesting actually because this week, the Daily Mail in the UK, there’s a focus that they’re doing all of that and actually we’ve been video interviewed for them, so that should be going out this week at some point. But on the export side of things, we are not getting any particular assistance, no. We’re working things out as we go along. I think the biggest challenge that we’ve got is getting the information about employing staff in Australia, New-Zealand, all of those things, because there’s pitfalls there and that, I guess, is our biggest challenge. Amy is going back over there in the New Year again, like I said, for the Australian roadshows. She’ll be doing a little bit more recywork but that’s progressing nicely. I guess it’s the legalities that you’re always a bit wary of. But we’ve got good accountants too. They’re helping us out which is great. Heather:        Sensational. What software do you use in your own business? Hannah:        Yes, I mean we run a SAAS business. We’ve got to use smart software ourselves don’t we otherwise we’re not really practising what we preach. So you’ll be happy to know that we run our business on CrunchBoards – Hurray! So building it from a selfish perspective worked. Heather:        Yes, sensational. Hannah:        I don’t know. So that’s brilliant. So from the development side of things, we’re massive fans of Trello. We use scrum methodology technology in our development plan. We use Trello for that which is fabulous. Absolutely love Trello. We are using things like Salesforce for our CRM. We’ve got some other cool tools like Squiggle that we use to collaborate with our development team, you know, those who are Eastbourne or who are working from home. I guess for me, the biggest one that we’re using is HipChat. We’ve got a room in HipChat which has got our conversation CrunchBoards room from the beginning of time. It’s brilliant because it feeds in with a different software, alerts and stuff that we’re using feeds into it to. That’s an essential tool for the dev side of things. Heather:        So HipChat is what you talked about when you said, “I just hit a button and talk to someone face to face?” Hannah:        No, that’s actually Squiggle. It’s constant video streaming. It’s brilliant. It’s really good. We’ve been using that since they launched it with their beta. They’ve been a few bugs which is fine. Heather:        You’re an early adopter, aren’t you, of everything? Hannah:        Yes, but you’ve got to remember as well, I’m working with geeky boys. It’s like, “Hannah, have you seen such and such?” “No I haven’t, I’ll check it out.” Things like Screen here, that’s quite good as well. I don’t know whether you’ve used that before. It’s kind of instant screen collaboration, and it’s absolutely brilliant. You’ve got both mouses there, you start typing, you’re on the other person’s screen. It’s phenomenal. From peer to peer dev side of things, that’s really cool too. Heather:        There seems to be a lot of screen adoption technologies come out recently because I know I’m still paying my $60 Go to Assist Citrix subscription which I think I need to drop and do one of those. Hannah:        We do use it. We’ve used others. I think that all of them, including Skype which we’re using at the moment, if that’s all you do really, it should be bloody good. Building an application that does a lot of things and making sure that they’re all good is hard work. If this is all you do, let’s get it going well. So I think screen technology is brilliant if it works, and we’ve all had issues where it doesn’t I guess. Heather:        Yes. How do you see the Xero ecosystem evolving? Hannah:        Well, it’s growing at a rate of knots isn’t it? Heather:        Absolutely, yes. Hannah:        Interesting, I’m not using many add-ons now myself. Heather:        No, it didn’t sound like it. Hannah:        We’re using our own because that’s what we needed to use. We are using things like Zapier Integrations which we use for our billing. We use Stripe for our billing, which is brilliant; it creates an invoice in Xero straight away, so that’s brilliant. I see us doing some interesting things next year with the ecosystem but I don’t want to speak too much about that because it’s ‘in the can’. Heather:        That’s okay. Hannah:        2015 is really excited with that. I think that Xero is really pushing the vertical add-ons, sometimes to the detriment of the horizontal add-ons that are out there. As much as Xero has given us all this opportunity in many cases, it is an accounting package. I think that if it loses focus on what actually is its core product, that it will actually create issues down the line with, “Well, what are you? Why build an ecosystem if you don’t want to actually help it flourish.” So I think the next year, in particular, will be very interesting. In particular when you look at Xero’s competitors and what they’re doing. We are purely Xero, certainly at the moment we are. We’ve made a decision despite the fact that we have got other integrations. I’m not going to name any names but we’ve got other integrations that we could turn on and we decided not to because they’ve been amazing. They’ve been very supportive of us. Heather:        Absolutely. You mentioned that you use Stripe billing with Zapier, does strike billing do your automatic subscriptions? Hannah:        Actually no, it doesn’t. Heather:        Okay. Hannah:        We built our … we could have and we did look at their … they’ve got great docs, they’ve got a great system but we’ve got kind of a variable billing system, so we actually built our own … one of our lovely boys went and built a custom one for us. Heather:        Oh, that’s good. That sounds like another little solution you could go and sell out there. Another one, “We built it because we needed it.” Hannah:        Yes, right. I think you’ve touched on this a bit but if you have anything to say, what changes are you seeing in the market moving from compliance to value add? I think you’ve said that you see it becoming … Hannah:        Look, you’re a CPA. Heather:        I’m FCCA. You actually know that. Hannah:        Absolutely. Heather:        People in Australia don’t know that. Hannah:        So previous life for me, I’ve had accountants beforehand who I’ve not seen for a whole year, and at the end of the year had gone, “Oh hi, it’s year end, we’ll get your accounts prepared and here’s a P&L and a balance sheet and here’s a bill for £2,000.” That was years ago. Years ago! Heather:        And that sounds really cheap. Hannah:        Yes, right, exactly. Well, it didn’t feel it but you’re just like, “What value am I getting here as a business owner?” So there’s that. We kind of parked that on one side but I think that business owners are kind of having … there’s some really entrepreneurial businesses out there. There’s still some huge business, fine, but yes I mean markets are traditionally time poor, on the ground, firefighting, all of those things, really hands on, and until you get to a point in your business where you can employ these things for you, you need input now and again. There was a great study, I can’t remember who commissioned it, that I read probably about a year and a half ago, that said that 84% of SME actually want their advisor to take on more of a CFO role, a remote FD role. Heather:        Yes. Hannah:        It’s hard doing it on your own. I may be wrong and I may be off here but I do think there will be a move that actually compliance will not be the thing that’s the billable. It’s actually  … actually I met a very interesting accountant in Brighton actually awhile back, actually last month, who she hasn’t got many clients but she does definitely perform that FD role for them and does not do compliance. They have another accountant for that. She’s not interested in it. It’s like, “I’m here to help you run your business and make you as successful as possible.” That’s exciting. Heather:        Yes. Hannah:        Compliance is a necessary evil. Tools are actually making that process a lot quicker, a lot easier than it was before, even for the single ledger it’s revolutionised a lot of these things. It’s a lot more streamlined, so where’s the value? What do we need an accountant for? Well, actually, you should have a hell of a lot of knowledge to help me run my business, so give me some. That’s where I see it going. Heather:        Absolutely. If you were talking to … and I’m asking you this because it’s specifically around your product, if you’re talking to a bookkeeper or accountant who’s never ventured into value add work, and there are a lot of people like that, what would you suggest is the easiest thing they can do, using your product, to help their client and value add? Hannah:        The first thing I’d say is how do you present data to your client? How do you give your client visualisation over their own business? First question. Often, there’s an um and an uh there, and a pause. Then the second point will be what we’ve just discussed, you know, the value add side of things, and what do business owners … we know this because we did the bloody interviews. We know it. We’re not making it up. Actually we’re one of those business owners, “Hi there, we’re one.” What we would then do is create … and we have, we have them already built out, but we’ve got sample boards that can get turned on and they work for every organisation because they’re a little bit more generic. That’s fine. It’s a great introduction to the visualisation side of things, the power of actually just being able to pull out one account, for instance, or income and see all of your sales streams side by side on a chart in seconds, and being able to change that data. Do you want to see it this week, this month? We’ve got a great client of ours that looks after cafés and restaurants and things. Great, so they’ve got one board. That’s a starting point, and then each business they’ll tailor it, of course, but for each vertical, we can get those things set up. The kind of point about it is we’ve created an engine, and it is an engine, it’s a platform that allows you to absolutely tailor and make bespoke in seconds, analysis: future, present and past. All of those things in one card, one of the cards that we’ve got on our board, can be flipped out into forecast data, again in seconds. It’s just that instant, effortless, and now you start doing this the conversation starts. That’s the point because the boards that we’ve built, you can then share with the client. They receive it. It gives them a mirror copy in their instance on their tablet, their phone, we designed it responsibly so it works on any device. It’s a case of right, we’re syncing with Xero automatically as well, about three times a day, three times every 24 hours, so that data just comes through. It’s being updated all the time. You build out your forecasting CrunchBoards as well. You’ve got that versus actual forecast. It’s how we compare it. Tracking is being released within the next week or so. They are looking amazing those cards at, and great plans for the future for consolidation of things at the beginning of next year. It just literally is, I know we say on our website, “Where Xero stops, CrunchBoard starts,” that really is the case. That’s what we’ve done. Heather:        Absolutely, and you seem to be evolving and bringing out new updates so quickly because I know that Amy said it almost looks completely different to the original version. Hannah:        It does. Again, I sneakily did version two while she was in Australia. I did it while she was away. It’s terrible. It’s like cheating on your wife. But the beauty of cloud, the beauty of … and that’s why we’re here isn’t it Heather, it’s all about cloud. The beauty of that and the whole point of it from an end user’s perspective is you don’t pay for a disk of some desktop software that you punch in to … plug into your machine, and then that’s it you’re done, and you hope that it doesn’t corrupt and you need to phone the support line. You get really an update for the same license fee. It just keeps giving. We’re just a gift that keeps giving. That’s the point of it all. Heather:        Absolutely, well you’re the frosting on the cake. Hannah:        The frosting on Xero’s cake, for sure. Heather:        So Hannah, I’ll leave you with one final question. What do you look forward to doing most? Hannah:        Oh my goodness. Seeing my kids more probably. I have mummy guilt quite a lot, so they’re seven, eight and twelve, and I think I’m really, really looking forward to Christmas this year. It’s been an insane 12 months, insane, and spending some family time with my kids and my amazing partner. He’s the rock. I couldn’t do it without him. I’m being a bit soppy now but that’s the truth. That’s the truth. Why do you do this? Why do you slog your guts out? For family. Are they looking like they’re going to go into computer sciences? Hannah:        It’s funny actually. My youngest, she’s a big crazy, that’s just an aside, that’s just a statement of fact, but she wanted to be a vet. She said to me the other day, “Mummy, if I don’t get to be a vet, I think I want to be a business woman like you.” I just thought, “Bless you darling,” because she sees the hours that Amy and I put in, and especially with Australia and New-Zealand of late. We start and 5 and tonight I’ll finish at 10:30. My day started at 5 today. Usually I’m drinking wine, today I’ve actually got water which is a big … I’m quite impressed with myself. So I hope that we’re an inspiration to the kids. I hope so. It would be nice. Heather:        Yes, I do think sometimes, and it may not work for you, but the cloud, it means you can actually be flexible around your children. Hannah:        At the end of the day, if I want to take a day off, I can do. If I need to work away, I can do. This year not so much because we’ve had so much to do but next year it will be different. We’re not going to take our foot off the pedal but we will be structuring things a little bit differently by taking on more staff, etc. Heather:        Absolutely. Thank you so much Hannah for speaking with us today. I’m sure our listeners will really appreciate everything that you’ve shared with us. Hope you have a wonderful evening. Hannah:        Thanks Heather. Heather:        Thank you. Cheers. Hannah:        Bye. End of Transcript Mentions ·        CrunchBoard http://crunchboards.com ·        Xero https://www.xero.com ·        Sage http://www.sage.com ·        XU Magazine http://xumagazine.com ·        Salesforce http://www.salesforce.com ·        Squiggle  https://squiggle.codeplex.com ·        HipChat https://hipchat.com ·        Zapier Integrations https://zapier.com ·        Stripe https://stripe.com   ·        Trello http://www.Trello.com

So Hannah is still on strike from writing these intros, which means it is up to Luke. I am sure they will get better at some point.