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Across Vermont, lunch is served at dozens of senior centers and church basements nearly every day. People show up to get a free meal and warm up or just to socialize. In St. Johnsbury, several of these community lunches stopped during the pandemic. Some have only just started up again.

Last week, marked the 100-year anniversary of the race riots of 1923 in Rosewood, FL. After a white woman accused a Black man of assaulting her, a white mob destroyed the town and displaced hundreds of Black middle- and working-class families. This rural town was one of several Black communities in the US that suffered racial violence and destruction, and the violence resulted in the loss of economic opportunity and inequality for generations of people of color.  The massacre was dramatized in the 1997 film “Rosewood” by director John Singleton. Direct descendants of the families who once lived in Rosewood led the fight for reparations in the 1990s and are continuing to fight to reclaim their families' legacies. In St. Paul, Minnesota (the same state where George Floyd was killed by police) the fight for reparations to address systemic racism is happening as well.  The state of Minnesota has the third largest racial wealth gap in the nation, and the state's income gap is the 5th largest. When it comes to health disparities, Black and Indigenous babies in Minnesota die at a rate twice that of White babies. According to the 2021 State of Black Minnesota Report, Black residents lived 7 years less than white residents. In response, the city of St. Paul moved forward with its plan to address systemic inequities and racism against Black residents through the formation of a permanent 11-member reparations commission. The group will work to advise the city council on measures to address systemic racism faced by Black residents in the city. Trahern Crews, a social justice advocate who was a Co-Convenor of the St. Paul Recovery Act Legislative Advisory Committee, and Councilmember Jane Prince, St. Paul City Council member for Ward 7, join us to discuss this new commission and why reparations are still necessary today. 

Last week, marked the 100-year anniversary of the race riots of 1923 in Rosewood, FL. After a white woman accused a Black man of assaulting her, a white mob destroyed the town and displaced hundreds of Black middle- and working-class families. This rural town was one of several Black communities in the US that suffered racial violence and destruction, and the violence resulted in the loss of economic opportunity and inequality for generations of people of color.  The massacre was dramatized in the 1997 film “Rosewood” by director John Singleton. Direct descendants of the families who once lived in Rosewood led the fight for reparations in the 1990s and are continuing to fight to reclaim their families' legacies. In St. Paul, Minnesota (the same state where George Floyd was killed by police) the fight for reparations to address systemic racism is happening as well.  The state of Minnesota has the third largest racial wealth gap in the nation, and the state's income gap is the 5th largest. When it comes to health disparities, Black and Indigenous babies in Minnesota die at a rate twice that of White babies. According to the 2021 State of Black Minnesota Report, Black residents lived 7 years less than white residents. In response, the city of St. Paul moved forward with its plan to address systemic inequities and racism against Black residents through the formation of a permanent 11-member reparations commission. The group will work to advise the city council on measures to address systemic racism faced by Black residents in the city. Trahern Crews, a social justice advocate who was a Co-Convenor of the St. Paul Recovery Act Legislative Advisory Committee, and Councilmember Jane Prince, St. Paul City Council member for Ward 7, join us to discuss this new commission and why reparations are still necessary today. 

When we share the Word Of God it is to reveal Jesus in each facet of the truth we share.

The New Year begins on the baseball beat at the St. Louis Post-Dispatch with a major acquisition -- Lynn Worthy, the former Royals beat writer for the Kansas City Star and a veteran baseball writer with years of experience covering minor-league ball, joins the Post-Dispatch and StlToday.com constant Cardinals coverage at the beginning of the 2023 season. In St. Louis to meet with other baseball writers (and scout out a place to live), Worthy joins baseball writer Derrick Goold on the Best Podcast in Baseball to talk about how he became a baseball fan, how he became a fan of baseball writer, his time playing football in college, and what appeals to him about coming to St. Louis and plunging into the Cardinals beat. Alas, the days of long debates about double switches in the Busch Stadium press box are over. But there is something that St. Louis assures that Worthy is eager to see. Oh, and there's talk about St. Louis pizza. The Best Podcast in Baseball, sponsored by Closets by Design of St. Louis, is a production of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, StLToday.com, and Derrick Goold.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

[WLHA 012]: We Live Here Auténtico! | The Hispanic Chamber | Connection and Community Central Today we spend time with the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce of Metropolitan St. Louis - a connection and central resource in the St. Louis region for 40 years. From the Latino Festival in O'Fallon, the Hispanic festival in Florissant, dance clubs in mid-town and cuisine from restaurants representing many different countries, St. Louis' Latino culture is booming and is a vibrant reflection of our growing Hispanic population. The median age of Hispanic St. Louisans is 25 compared to 36 of the general population and the percentage of Latinos in the region roughly doubled. Most of the growth in the past 20 years has come in Madison, St. Clair, St. Charles and St. Louis counties.  In St. Louis, Latino residents now account for more than 5% of the city's population. The Hispanic Chamber of Commerce purposely creates a safe and open environment for people that have similar backgrounds of experiences. The Chamber has specific tools that address some of the needs of the Hispanic community in our region. The staff is bilingual in Spanish and English, so they can help entrepreneurs in their preferred language.  Like other chambers, the Hispanic Chamber does not only serve Latino businesses, it serves everyone. Happy 40th Anniversary!! Mentioned in this episode: Leave a voice message. https://anchor.fm/autentico--podcast/message HCC website:  www.hccstl.com FB:  https://www.facebook.com/HCCSTL Insta:  @hccmetrostl LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/metrohccstl/ Eduardo Platon:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/eduardoplaton/ Sisi Beltran:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/sisibeltran/ Build  a bear: https://www.buildabear.com/ Wash U:  https://wustl.edu/ Hispanic Festival: https://www.hispanicfestivalstl.com/about Mural:  https://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/hispanic-heritage-month-hispanic-artists-create-mural-st-louis-show-representation-offer-hope/63-53f8c3d1-c56f-4770-afd4-ee71e4065c5c Latinx Arts Network:  https://www.latinxstl.com/ https://instagram.com/latinxartsstl?igshid=YmMyMTA2M2Y= Esmeralda Aharon:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/aharones/ Luisa Otera-Prado. https://www.linkedin.com/in/luferotero/ Carol Lara. https://www.linkedin.com/in/carol-lara/ https://www.instagram.com/carollaraphotography/ Ricardo Martinez. https://www.linkedin.com/in/ricardo-martinez-3609a0168/ Fernanda Estrada https://www.linkedin.com/in/fernanda-estrada-799a61138/ Brian Muñoz:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/thisismunoz/ Ricardo Garza:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/ricardo-garza-/ Club Atletico:  https://www.gobluebirds.com/news Karlos Ramirez:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/karlos-ramirez-8a872b8/ Midwest BankCentre: https://www.midwestbankcentre.com/ Asian American Chamber of Commerce:  https://aaccstl.org/ Heartland St Louis Black Chamber:  https://hbcstl.com/about-the-chamber/ Afghan Chamber of Commerce STL:  https://www.linkedin.com/company/afghan-chamber-of-commerce-stl/ Brian's article referenced: https://news.stlpublicradio.org/culture-history/2021-11-16/the-st-louis-region-is-already-home-for-many-latinos-and-more-are-moving-here Thank you so much for checking out this episode of “We Live Here Autentico”. If you haven't done so already, please take a minute and leave a quick rating and review of the show on Apple Podcasts by clicking on the link below. It will help us to keep delivering more ways to “WE” for you each week!

Сергей | LOSEV: "Привет) не поверишь, но я записал очередной брэйксовый микс. Я все 25 лет свожу все вручную. А мне говорят, что я старовер)) Я адски боюсь открытой высоты)А воду я люблю больше, чем не люблю высоту. Летом пришлю закат) Все лучшее детям) Обнял) " ________________________________________________ - SC: @losev - FB: www.facebook.com/djlosevmsk/ - INST: www.instagram.com/djlosev/

Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI died Saturday morning in a Vatican City monastery at the age of 95. In St. Peter's Basilica, Pope Francis remembered his predecessor, who made history by resigning in 2013, as "noble" and "kind." But Benedict's papacy was marked by a conservative defense of church doctrine and struggles over dealing with the clergy sex abuse scandal. Laura Barrón-López reports. PBS NewsHour is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders

Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI died Saturday morning in a Vatican City monastery at the age of 95. In St. Peter's Basilica, Pope Francis remembered his predecessor, who made history by resigning in 2013, as "noble" and "kind." But Benedict's papacy was marked by a conservative defense of church doctrine and struggles over dealing with the clergy sex abuse scandal. Laura Barrón-López reports. PBS NewsHour is supported by - https://www.pbs.org/newshour/about/funders

Panamá también se verá afectada por la subida de tasas de intereses en los préstamos, confirmó hoy en Radiografía, Javier Carrizo, Gerente del@banconalpa."Las tasas de interés van a subir, están subiendo, ya han subido. Lo que quiere decir que el dinero va a costar más y vamos tener que ser mucho más eficientes en el caso de las empresas y en el caso del individuo también", señaló.Instó al ahorro como medida paliativa.Carrizo indicó además que el estado también se verá afectado por este aumento de las tasas de intereses."No nos podemos poner pesimistas por eso, después de las vacas flacas, vienen las flacas gordas", argumentó.

A Instância de Governança Regional (IGR) é uma classificação do ministério do turismo, que auxilia no planejamento das atividades por regiões. Mas no Sul do estado, a IGR Encantos do Sul está parada já tem algum tempo que nem um presidente responsável existe. Por este e outros motivos, os municípios que compõem as regiões da Amrec e Amurel, solicitaram a Santur (Agência de Desenvolvimento do Turismo de Santa Catarina), o desmembramento da Encantos do Sul. O pedido de desmembramento é para que cada região tenha uma Instância de Governança Regional própria. Com isso, a Amurel integraria a Caminho Serra Mar e a Amrec integra a Quatro Estações, órgãos próprios para trabalhar o desenvolvimento do turismo em seus municípios. Durante entrevista ao Cruz de Malta Notícias desta quarta-feira (28), a secretária de Turismo de Lauro Müller, que é membro do Colegiado de Turismo na Amrec, Patrícia Pontaldi Breis, comentou sobre os benefícios que o desmembramento pode trazer para as duas regiões, especialmente no que diz respeito a vinda de recursos federais. Ouça abaixo a íntegra da entrevista:

EDUARDO BORGES: O BRASIL DE TODOS OS GOLPES - 20 Minutos Entrevista O programa 20 MINUTOS desta segunda-feira (26/12) recebe o professor de História da Universidade do Estado da Bahia (Uneb) para uma entrevista sobre "Golpe: o golpe como método político da elite brasileira". Imperdível! Assista nos canais de Opera Mundi.----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

Karácsony előtt terepjáróztunk, majdnem elakadtunk, de végül odaértünk az Avatar 2-re. Megnéztük a Light Art Museum-ot is, és összegezzük az évet az idei legjobb fényképezőgépekkel, objektívekkel, jövő évi várakozásainkkal. Megtippeljük mit terveznek a nagy gyártók jövő évre, és reménykedünk az analóg technika továbbfejlődésében. Az adás linkje: https://tripodcast.hu/92 Műsorvezetők: Láng Péter, Lénárt Gábor, Varga Benedek Támogass minket Patreonon: https://tripodcast.hu/patreon Csatlakozz a Tripodcast Community Facebook csoporthoz! http://tripodcast.hu/community Küldj nekünk hangüzenetben kérdést! http://tripodcast.hu/messages Az adást a Tripont, a Manfrotto, a Fujifilm, a Samyang, a NiSi, a Velbon és a Hähnel támogatta! Egyéni oktatásról az alábbi linken kaphattok információt: https://tripodcast.hu/oktatas Kövess minket Instán: https://www.instagram.com/tripodcast_ Az adásban elhangzott témák, linkek: - Avatar: The Way of Water https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1630029/ - Light Art Museum: https://lam.xyz - GxAce YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@GxAce - Philips SHP9600: https://www.philips.hu/c-p/SHP9600_00/fuelre-illeszkedoe-fejhallgato - Sennheiser HD58x: https://drop.com/buy/massdrop-x-sennheiser-hd-58x-jubilee-headphones - I Hit SOS On My Garmin InReach. Here's What Happened: https://youtu.be/LFLl9q-bEgk

JOSÉ DIRCEU: O QUE ESPERAR DE 2023? - 20 Minutos EntrevistaNo 20 MINUTOS desta sexta-feira (23/12), o jornalista Breno Altman recebe o ex-presidente do Partido dos Trabalhadores (PT) José Dirceu para uma entrevista sobre as expectativas em relação a 2023, com o novo governo do presidente eleito Lula. Não perca! Acompanhe nos canais de Opera Mundi!----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

Editorial: Sérgio Cabral fora da cadeia e a importância da prisão em segunda instância

O fundador de Opera Mundi, Breno Altman, recebeu na edição desta quarta-feira (21/12) do programa 20 MINUTOS o acadêmico Miguel Borba de Sá, doutor em Relações Internacionais pela Pontifícia Universidade Católica do Rio de Janeiro (PUC-Rio) e professor da Universidade de Coimbra (Portugal).----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

Being able to read well is the foundation for so many things.   If you can't read well, you can't do well in school, read a medical prescription or even manage a Google search.   But one in three fourth graders in the United States and in Minnesota cannot read at grade level.   A new investigative podcast from American Public Media explores how a common way of teaching reading fails students. Earlier this month, MPR News with Angela Davis talked with Emily Hanford, lead producer of “Sold a Story: How Teaching Kids to Read Went So Wrong.”   Listen to our follow-up conversation with Minnesota educators.   Guests:   Katie Pekel is executive director of educational leadership at the University of Minnesota where she heads up the Minnesota Principals Academy and other programs to train and inform school system leaders. She's a former teacher and elementary and middle school principal.   Athena Goff is a WINN literacy teacher at Phalen Lake Hmong Studies Magnet School in St. Paul Public Schools where she teaches reading to small groups of kindergarten through third grade students.   Katharine Campbell is a former special education teacher and director of literacy partnerships with Groves Learning Organization. The literacy partnership program offers literacy training and reading curriculum to elementary schools in the Twin Cities. Here are four key moments from the conversation. The following transcript has been edited for length and clarity. Click the audio player above to listen to the full conversation. From your experience, describe the way that reading has been taught in Minnesota: Athena Goff: I listened to the entire Sold a Story podcast. I was shocked and disappointed. In St. Paul, for the past 15 years, we have had an explicit phonics curriculum, so teaching phonics is not new. The podcast references the cueing method and my experience with that method was when teaching kids to use the visual of a word, looking all the way through the words letter by letter and seeing the sound blending. I knew in my heart that teaching kids how to decode is really teaching them how to read. I never had kids look at the first letter, check the picture, and just make a guess. For 15 years we have had a new curriculum that aligns more closely with the ‘science of reading' books. It has followed a scope and sequence. Katie Pekel: Unlike what Athena just shared, where St. Paul has had a solid phonics curriculum for 15 years, that is not the case in most districts across the state of Minnesota. As a matter of fact, when I was an elementary school principal, we had a balanced literacy approach in the building that I led. That approach meant that kids would just get reading if they were surrounded by good books and comfortable places to read as Emily described in the podcast. There was a little bit of phonics, but not what Athena described. In fact, we know from the National Reading Panel research dating back to 2000, that phonemic awareness, phonics, fluency, vocabulary, and comprehension, all have to be present in literacy instruction. Tell us more about the ‘Science of Reading' program: Katharine Campbell: We have been basing our reading instruction at Groves Academy for years on what we currently call the ‘science of reading'. It is explicit instruction in phonics, but also some other of the five components of reading that Katie mentioned. What we did when we went into grubs, literacy partnerships, is we changed what we were doing to meet the needs of typical learners. But it's still based on the same methodology that we follow when we talk about structured literacy or the science of reading. We started in 2016 and when we partner with a school, we bring teacher professional learning and a curriculum that is based on the science of reading. We ask them to collect data three times a year using a quick standardized test but also look at the performance of each student as they are doing a unit. Our focus is on kindergarten through third-grade readers right now, although our program is expanding, and we are publishing curriculum for those older students that need intervention. What can you tell us about racial disparities in education? Athena Goff: It is an alarming issue. For the last 14 years, I have taught at schools that had one hundred percent kids of color, and nearly one hundred percent poverty. I have been shocked over the years, and yet I have not given up on doing what is right in my heart. And now, since last year, with our new training in the science of reading, my students are reading decodable books and I am really seeing a difference and progress in how they are reading. I am hopeful and I believe in my students. Katie Pekel: Literacy is a social justice issue. And the approaches that Athena just described in the classroom are what we need to see but on a much broader scale. At the University of Minnesota, we have the Center for Applied Research and Educational Improvement and we help school districts across the state of Minnesota to understand how the science of reading intersects with and is part of what's called an MTSS model (multi-tiered systems of support). A second component is the school curriculum that we are going to use, that ultimately needs to reach all kids. What could help more kids learn how to read at their grade level? Athena Goff: A real focus on both phonemic awareness and letter sound instruction with phonics is the key. Teachers need decodable texts, they need decodable passages. I am hoping that classroom teachers will be getting those soon. For way too long, we have used level readers and we need to get away from that. Katie Pekel: We need a significant scale-up in the training of teachers. We already had a $3 million investment last legislative session, and as we sit on over $17 billion going into this session, I think we're going to see that investment. We need to support teachers and make sure they have the skills to use those decodable texts and resources. Your stories Parents and teachers called into the show and shared their stories. Here are some of them. Laurie from Roseville I'm a kindergarten teacher. I have been teaching for over 20 years and was trained in the balanced literacy approach. It was almost like you taught kids how to look like a reader but you were not teaching them the explicit phonics that makes them decode words. My oldest daughter is dyslexic and as a mom, it really hit me hard. I wish so badly I would have known then what I know now, so she would not have gotten through the struggles that she did. Nowadays, I'm in letters training which is based on the science of reading. Minnesota has made a big push for this. It is just December and all my kids are starting to decode. Daisy from Minneapolis My son is in third grade at Minneapolis Public Schools. I assumed things were fine and then one day, he told me he does not know how to read. I listened to the podcast and emailed the teacher. I got a paragraph response telling me he was at a benchmark level, which is where he should be at the end of third grade. So I got these mixed messages and I think where he is struggling is in writing. I think my son has a good teacher, he is at a school with people that really care about education. But I do not know what to do. Carlin from Minneapolis I was a middle school teacher in Minneapolis Public Schools for six years, and I taught predominantly Black, Latino, and Indigenous students, many of whom spoke languages other than English at home. I really believe that many programs were not properly audited in Minneapolis, because of educator bias, be that racial bias, class bias, or linguistic bias. We're all leveled against students and families to say: “well, maybe the reason they're not able to read is because they are still learning English, or because of their home lives, or because of poverty”. And so it really put students and families in this deficit lens, to the educators and to the school institutions. Susan from St. Paul I am a high school teacher, and I have students who do not know how to read, who phonetically cannot decode words, and I think it comes down to race and class. Those students have been passed through techniques of memorization and techniques of deep listening to the teacher as they go through books. As a high school teacher, to know what that is going to mean for a student who is graduating high school in two years, is a terrible feeling. Subscribe to the MPR News with Angela Davis podcast on: Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify or RSS.  Use the audio player above to listen to the full conversation. 

MIGUEL LAGO: COMO CONSTRUIR UM ESTADO DEMOCRÁTICO? - 20 Minutos Entrevista Como constriuir um Estado Democrático? Quem responde a pergunta é o cientista político Miguel Lago, no programa 20 MINUTOS dessa segunda-feira (19/12). Não perca a entrevista de Breno Altman, nos canais de Opera Mundi.Miguel Lago é cientista político e diretor executivo do Instituto de Estudos para Políticas de Saúde (Ieps). Cofundador do Meu Rio e do Nossas, lecionou na Universidade Columbia em Nova York e na Sciences Po Paris. É autor dos livros "Do que falamos quando falamos de populismo", "Linguagem da destruição", ambos pela Companhia das Letras e sua obra mais recente é "A construção de um Estado para o século XXI", lançado pela editora Cobogó.----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

MICHAEL LÖWY: CAPITALISMO VERDE OU ECOSSOCIALISMO? - 20 Minutos EntrevistaCapitalismo verde ou ecossocialismo? É com esse tema que Opera Mundi recebeu o sociólogo marxista Michael Löwy no 20 MINUTOS dessa sexta-feira (16/12), nos canais de Opera Mundi.----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

BENEDITO MARIANO: O QUE FAZER COM A SEGURANÇA PÚBLICA? - 20 Minutos EntrevistaO sociólogo Benedito Mariano foi o convidado do programa 20 MINUTOS dessa quarta-feira (14/12), para discutir, junto com Breno Altman, o que deve ser feito dentro dos âmbitos da segurança pública do Brasil. Imperdível, somente nos canais de Opera Mundi.----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

REINALDO AZEVEDO: COMO A DIREITA ENFRENTARÁ LULA? - 20 Minutos Entrevista No programa 20 MINUTOS dessa segunda-feira (12/12), o fundador de Opera Mundi, Breno Altman, conversou com o jornalista Reinaldo Azevedo sobre como será a oposição dos direitistas a Lula.----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

Eheti adásunkat film- és alkalmazásajánlóval kezdjük, majd Peti beszámol a Nikon 17-28mm f/2.8-al és a Fujifilm X-T5-tel szerzett tapasztalatairól. Peti vásárolt is, egy Instax Wide nyomtatót. Ezután pedig csörlő fotózós élménybeszámoló és tárgyfotós praktikák következnek. Az adás linkje: https://tripodcast.hu/91 Műsorvezetők: Láng Péter, Lénárt Gábor, Varga Benedek Támogass minket Patreonon: https://tripodcast.hu/patreon Csatlakozz a Tripodcast Community Facebook csoporthoz! http://tripodcast.hu/community Küldj nekünk hangüzenetben kérdést! http://tripodcast.hu/messages Az adást a Tripont, a Manfrotto, a Fujifilm, a Samyang, a NiSi, a Velbon és a Hähnel támogatta! Egyéni oktatásról az alábbi linken kaphattok információt: https://tripodcast.hu/oktatas Kövess minket Instán: https://www.instagram.com/tripodcast_ Az adásban elhangzott témák, linkek: - The Eight Mountains -The Menu - Just Press Record app - Nikon 17-28mm f/2.8 Z - Instax Wide nyomtató - Fujifilm X-T5 - Fujifilm 56mm f/1.2 WR - Manfrotto Skylite Rapid - Profoto Ecommerce Studio Solutions: - Manfrotto 410 Junior fogaskerekes fej - Manfrotto Mikro pozicionálható csúszós talp - Arca Swiss Geared Cube - Manfrotto Mikro pozicionálható csúszós talp - Karl Taylor Light Cone - Botvidsson óra fotós videó - IKEA MELODI Függőlámpa - Manfrotto Salon 809 - JOBY Tapadó korong & GorillaPod Kar

Segunda-feira, 12 de dezembro de 2022: O novo governo que começa daqui a 20 dias já vai tomando forma. Na sexta-feira passada, Lula anunciou os primeiros nomes confirmados no seu ministério. A escolha do presidente de, no primeiro anúncio, apresentar apenas homens gerou críticas. Na campanha, Lula se negou a se comprometer com a paridade de gênero no ministério, como já fizeram outros governos progressistas.Outros integrantes do novo governo devem ser anunciados a partir de hoje, depois da diplomação de Lula como presidente eleito, que acontece no início da tarde. Há 20 anos, quando recebeu o diploma de presidente pela primeira vez, Lula se emocionou.Enquanto isso, o bolsonarismo segue apostando na bagunça. Ontem até o Jair participou de manifestação golpista em Brasília. No final de semana, ele quebrou o silêncio de 40 dias e falou - ou tentou.Como se não bastasse a derrota para a Croácia, que tirou o Brasil do sério e da Copa, o Jair resolveu abrir a boca de novo nas vésperas da diplomação de Lula. Só que, se a ideia era uma demonstração de força, não surtiu o efeito desejado. Apesar do golpismo, o próximo governo já trabalha como se tivesse começado e, sinceramente, ninguém se importa com o chororô do Jair.PRIMEIRA INST NCIA, COM ADRIANE RAMPAZZOQuais são os sonhos jurídicos de Natal? A professora de Direito Adriane Rampazzo participa hoje, direto de Porto Alegre, para nos contar qual é a lista de desejos do pessoal do mundo jurídico para o novo ministro da Justiça e para o Brasil.SAIBA MAIS: https://primeiro.cafe/APOIE: https://apoia.se/primeirocafe Como ouvir o Primeiro Café ao vivo? - Baixe o aplicativo do Spreaker (logo da estrela)!Acesse o site primeiro.cafe/noar às 8h da manhã. Em podcast, estamos em todos os tocadores. ÁUDIOS:"Um novo tempo"- Daniel Santos @naofamoso"O primeiro jornal" - Elis Regina

O QUE ACONTECE NO PERU? - 20 Minutos AnáliseO 20 MINUTOS ANÁLISE desta sexta-feira (09/12), com apresentação do jornalista Breno Altman, analisa a crise política peruana após a tentativa de Pedro Castillo de fechar o Congresso, ser afastado do cargo e preso. O que aconteceu no Peru? Para sintonizar no tema, não perca às 11h, ao vivo, nos canais de Opera Mundi.----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

Hey friends, Coaching on the Action line just doesn't work. You will find yourself hustling with little to no results taking action from that place. Inst!ead, I want you to dig deeper at the real reason you are creating the life you want. It all begins with our thoughts...well before we take any action. Enjoy!

PAULO PIMENTA: COMO LIMPAR O ESTADO DO BOLSONARISMO? - 20 Minutos EntrevistaBreno Altman recebe o deputado federal pelo PT do Rio Grande do Sul Paulo Pimenta no 20 MINUTOS desta quarta-feira (07/12). A entrevisa será com o tema: como limpar o Estado do bolsonarismo?Pimenta é jornalista e técnico agrícola formado pela UFSM. É o deputado federal mais votado do PT/RS na Câmara Federal, pela quarta vez consecutiva. Foi eleito vereador em Santa Maria em 1988 e reeleito em 1992. Chegou à Assembleia Legislativa do RS em 1998. Vice-prefeito de Santa Maria de 2000 a 2002, Pimenta foi eleito deputado federal em 2002. Foi reeleito em 2006, 2010, 2014, 2018 e 2022. No Governo da Presidenta Dilma Rousseff, entre 2012 e 2013, foi Presidente da Comissão Mista de Orçamento.  Inicia em 2023 o seu sexto mandato na Câmara dos Deputados.----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

DANIEL CARA: QUAL O RUMO DA EDUCAÇÃO? - 20 Minutos EntrevistaNo 20 MINUTOS dessa segunda-feira (05/12), o professor Universidade de São Paulo Daniel Cara conversa com Breno Altman sobre os rumos da educação no Brasil.  Daniel Cara é professor da Faculdade de Educação da Universidade de São Paulo (USP). Doutor em Educação (Universidade de São Paulo – USP), mestre em Ciência Política (USP) e bacharel em Ciências Sociais (USP). Dirigente da Campanha Nacional pelo Direito à Educação, que coordenou entre 2006 e 2020. É membro do Conselho Universitário da Unifesp (desde 2015). Foi vencedor do Prêmio Darcy Ribeiro 2015, concedido pela Câmara dos Deputados, em nome do Congresso Nacional. Atualmente, integra a equipe de transição do governo Lula na área da Educação.----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

MANUEL DOMINGOS NETO: COMO LULA DEVERIA LIDAR COM OS MILITARES? - 20 Minutos EntrevistaComo Lula deveria lidar com o militares? É com esse tema que Breno Altman recebe o historiador e ex-deputado federal Manuel Domingos Neto no 20 MINUTOS dessa sexta-feira (02/12).----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

Episode Summary Margaret and Ellie talk about building a better culture around guns, the importance of gun ownership for community and self defense, some basic tenets of firearm safety, ideas around conflict deterrence, some problems with our current gun culture, consent and guns, mental health and guns, and unsurprisingly how community might be a big piece of the answer to maintaining better gun culture. Guest Info The Guest is Ellie Picard and she is a hand gun instructor with Arm Trans Women. The group can be found at https://linktr.ee/atw.firearms.inst or on Instgram @ATW.firearms.inst or @Codename_Ellie. Host Info Margaret can be found on twitter @magpiekilljoy or instagram at @margaretkilljoy. Publisher Info This show is published by Strangers in A Tangled Wilderness. We can be found at www.tangledwilderness.org, or on Twitter @TangledWild and Instagram @Tangled_Wilderness. You can support the show on Patreon at www.patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness. Next Episode Hopefully will come out Friday, December, 16th. Transcript Margaret 00:15 Hello, and welcome to Live Like the World is Dying, your podcast for what feels like the end times. I'm your host, Margaret Killjoy. And this week we are going to be talking about what it takes to build a better gun culture, a gun culture that keeps people safe instead of not safe. And, with me to talk about that I'm going to have on an instructor named Ellie Picard. And, I think that you all get a lot out of hearing what she has to say. But first, this podcast is a proud member of the Channel Zero Network of anarchists podcasts. And here's a jingle from another show in the network. Margaret 01:36 Okay, if you could introduce yourself with your name, your pronouns, and then kind of your background with the stuff that we're going to be talking about today? Ellie 01:46 Yeah, for sure. My name is Ellie Picard, and I use she/her pronouns. Currently living in Charlottesville, Virginia, I'm originally from the District of Columbia. And, I've been interested in firearms for most of my life, I've only been actively shooting and training with guns for the last three or four years. I became a certified handgun instructor a few months ago, and I work with another trans instructor. Here in Virginia, we have a company called Arm Trans Women. And we offer classes, not just for trans folks, but for literally anyone who signs up. But, we particularly enjoy and emphasize the importance of teaching queer folks, people of color, other marginalized people, because we're the ones who really need to know how to defend ourselves in our communities and our families, because no one else is going to. And I'm also a doctoral candidate, a researcher in political science, and my research focuses on radical queer militancy. And so studying and paying attention to radical gun culture, or queer gun culture has been a big part of my research life as well as my personal life. So, I'm not just actively, personally involved in these things. It's something that I dedicate a lot of intellectual, you know, resources to thinking through and dealing with as well. Margaret 02:07 Yeah, I get really excited when I have on a guest and I didn't even realize they're even more qualified than I originally thought. Ellie 03:09 I'm not qualified, but whatever. Margaret 03:18 I didn't know about the the academic work. Well, the main thing that I want to talk to you about, yeah, is this idea of building a better gun culture. But ,before we get into that, do you want to talk a little bit about the the trainings that you do? Like, what does it mean? Are you teaching to a certification? Are you helping people get, you know, concealed carry permits? Or is it more of like a self defense class? Or what kind of work are you doing there? Ellie 03:44 So, most of what we do is we teach heavily modified versions of the NRA basic pistol course and the NRA concealed carry course, because that's what most states require people to take in order to get a concealed carry permit. Here in Virginia, folks need to take the basic pistol course. And then they can go and qualify for a license to carry. So, we do that we also are certified to qualify people for Maryland carry permits. And so, that's mostly what we do is basic pistol classes and CCW classes, we also do some one-on-one instruction that can range from sort of basic to more advanced defensive shooting. And, if anyone listening has sort of taken one of these basic NRA courses, they are full of a lot of stuff that that is oriented toward the NRA's ideology and projects. So, obviously we have sort of cut out a lot of that stuff. We emphasize why self defense and why gun ownership is potentially so important for marginalized people, and why we are sort of why it's harder for us to engage with both firearms culture and the sort of infrastructure around learning how to to use and acquire guns, and all of the other ways that sort of traditional and well established firearms training, leave a lot of people out or sort of perpetuate a lot of the issues that exist in society, a lot of this sort of ingrained racism, and sexism, and other sort of things that are that are baked into our...a lot of our sort of firearms, infrastructure and commerce in this country. Margaret 05:27 Yeah. What are some of the things that you end up kind of taking away from the NRA's version? Like, what are some of the things that are in the NRA's training that are a little bit more ideologically focused? Ellie 05:37 A lot of their basic slide deck that they give instructors is...it's just, it's sort of steeped in this Second Amendment worship and basic sort of, you know, reverence for America and for our rights and freedoms of gun ownership, and for the political aspect of gun ownership, as the NRA understands it, which essentially, you know, protecting the rights of people, predominantly white men, because that's the majority of their membership, to own guns. And, we take a lot of that inflected language out...well, we also take a lot of their you know, they're also just the NRA materials aren't very good at teaching what they're supposed to teach, in some ways. They are very clunky. They haven't been edited in a long time, they've a lot of extraneous material in there, the way that they phrase and talk about the rules of handgun safety is very different from the ways that we often talk about it in other gun communities online, so we sort of adjust that to make it more accessible and more consistent with the what we're used to seeing and thinking about when it comes to gun safety. And we've also actually changed, taken out a lot of the actual, like, practical and technical stuff that's in the NRA instruction materials, like the stances for handgun shooting that they teach, which are pretty outdated, and in our opinion, not as effective or preferable as, as as other stances and styles. So, we teach our own sort of version of what we call a natural fighting stance, rather than the NRA's approved, like isosceles stance. So, things like that ranging from, from practical aspects to that sort of political inflection. And, we do, I mean, we certainly replace some of that with our own ideological inflections in our teaching, and emphasize the fact that not just American society, but also gun control laws and gun control efforts are often harmful to marginalized populations, and to folks like us and the people who we're trying to train and arm. And, you know, the ways that this country has chosen to restrict access to guns, as well as the way that it promotes access to guns and sort of promote the proliferation of guns. These are all things that end up being harmful to minorities and marginalized people. And we sort of try to emphasize that and highlight that. I also make a point of doing things that I don't...that are not in the NRA trainings, like talking about mental health and the importance of, you know, what do we do with all of these guns that we're encouraging you to buy and carry, if we're suicidal, and if we have people in our homes who can't be sort of trusted or shouldn't be allowed to, or able to access guns, stuff like that, that that's often, you know, stigmatized or just ignored in other areas of gun discourse are things that we try to focus on and normalize and bring into the conversation as well. Margaret 08:42 Okay. Well, I guess to start out, then, why carry? Why is it worth...you know, as you pointed out, we have this like, massive proliferation of guns in our our society, right? What is it...And the answer is sort of self evident in some ways, but I'd love to hear...I'd love to talk about it. Why push for more people being armed? And why push for specifically, trans women to be armed or other marginalized folks? Ellie 09:09 So first, I mean, if we just look at the distribution of guns in this country, we have more firearms than humans in the United States currently, but they are overwhelmingly concentrated in certain among certain demographics. White men, conservative white men still make up a majority of gun owners. That's starting to change, but it's but not, not quickly. We've seen surges in the last few years of both people of color, women, queer folks, and liberals, and leftists buying guns at increasing rates, but that doesn't mean that you know, white conservative men have stopped buying guns, and we're not going to sort of catch up to them. And so I guess like that's the first part of my answer is we a lot of the firepower in this country is concentrated, in what in my perspective is sort of dangerous hands, and in order to counteract that it makes sense to arm the folks who are generally disadvantaged by conservative, white male society. And the other thing is that, you know, we see that marginalized communities, queer communities, trans people, black people in this country are overwhelming are the targets of violence more often than white folks, statistically, proportionally, and yet less likely to be able to defend themselves with firearms, less likely to carry and be trained on how to use them. So, there's that sort of aspect of it, where just sort of one can, I guess, think of that as trying to level the playing field. But, more I think, it's not just about leveling the playing field, from my perspective, I also kind of have a deterrence mindset here on a larger scale than the personal. By which, I mean that, you know, it's not just about, you know, broadcasting the fact that I as an individual transfem, I'm able to defend myself and own a gun, but trying to I guess, or I guess, I sort of would like to see the day where, where folks assume that if they see a transfem walking down the street, there's a fairly good chance that she is armed, and she would, you know, she'll use her gun to defend herself. If you fuck with her, the more that that kind of idea becomes ingraine, you know, the less...the more chance there is of sort of pre emptive deterrence of violence against marginalized people. That's, I guess, the hope anyway. So yeah, I would like... Margaret 11:45 ...Like becoming spiky. Ellie 11:46 Yeah, exactly. Exactly. I would like people to be afraid of me. I honestly would. I'm not a very scary person, but I do things to make myself more intimidating in the street, and I do things to make myself less desirable or appealing to normies and cis folks, and you know, arming queers and arming other marginalized people is part of that, sort of broadcasting or contributing to this broader understanding that oh, yeah, you, you can't actually just fuck with those people. They're not soft targets, and you're likely to get hurt if you try. Margaret 12:19 Yeah. Well, okay. So I mean, the main reason that I carry or when I carry is, yeah, out of like, well, I mean, self defense, and I carry when I'm more concerned about my personal safety. But, you know, I like this idea of like, being spikier, be known to be spiky, right? Like, if you fuck with people, then it might go really badly. Ellie 12:44 Yeah. Margaret 12:46 But, the thing that you're talking about earlier about, okay, kind of the leveling the playing field argument, it is a, it's a different argument than the primary liberal argument in which, which has some validity from a higher level, but it's like, counteracting by arming, or counteracting a right wing threat, by arming ourselves rather than trying to disarm the population. And it seems like, if you were a dictator, and wanted everyone to be safe, like when guns are not in the equation, people are generally safer. I believe that statistics sort of bear this out as, as at least as far as I've seen. And so in some ways, arguing that, well, they're armed, so I should be too is, is escalatory, right? It is more likely to put ourselves in a position of conflict. And yet it still, to me feels like the appropriate approach to our current context. It feels like, I mean, one, we can't disarm them. Ellie 13:51 Right. Margaret 13:52 The 'We' is not in power. And even if it was in power, then you're just creating the systems by which people can make that kind of decision for other people. And that always goes very badly. Well, actually, not even 'one,' that's just my main point, right, is that like... Ellie 14:07 I mean, I think, you know, it's sort of a matter of basic physics, we can't make all the guns in this country disappear. We can't unarm the folks that I see is as primarily dangerous to us. That's not possible. So, and you're right, in doing so we're sort of hand more power to people who we also also are likely to do us harm. But so I think, ya know, yeah, well, you could potentially see it as escalatory. But, absent that escalation, you're not eliminating the potential for conflict. You're eliminating the potential for us to win the conflict. Margaret 14:43 Right. Ellie 14:44 I guess like, that's, you know, the other part of that that I didn't really mentioned before, is you know, there's a significant self defense aspect to why I carry it as as an individual, but there's more of a community defense or collective defense aspect to it, honestly. I...if I'm just out by myself running errands and stuff, I'm nine times out of 10 not going to have a pistol on me, honestly. I have other things, I'm a knife slut, and I've got all sorts of other weapons. But, I don't always carry a gun. When I do almost certainly carry a gun is when I know I'm going to be around other queer people, with other queer people in public and I know that I won't be prohibited from it. Because that's, you know, we're more, we're often you know, I'm not gonna say we're more often targeted in groups than individually, that's not true, but that's where I really want that deterrent message to be clear as that, you know, is that queers collectively, are likely to be armed, not just me as an individual person. So, it's being able to and prepared to defend our community, not just to defend my person, and to defend political existence, not just sort of physical existence, that I see as particularly important. Margaret 16:05 Yeah. Okay, so if...this is this is my logical thinking coming into this, and part of why I wanted to have you on is, if we are choosing to overall arm ourselves, right, and overall, try and create a, a spiky culture or position, a culture in which like, if large scale conflict or even small scale scale conflict happens, we're capable of winning. If we choose to do that, it seems like there's a lot of traps that we could fall into, that...because some of the problems of gun culture are not just the problems of right wing gun culture, because I do believe that there is a sort of center gun culture, or an apolitical gun culture in this country as well. It's not as large maybe, but there are a lot of dangers involved in in gun culture, right. And this is something that I think about a lot as someone who, you know, promotes the idea that certain people should choose to be armed if their mental health and their community situation, you know, makes that make sense. How do we create a culture that doesn't fall into some of these traps? Or minimizes the risks that...because there, it seems like a risk management rather than risk elimination, right... Ellie 16:09 Mhmm. Margaret 16:23 ...when you're introducing firearms into a situation, there's no way to, to make that completely safe. But, it seems like there's ways that we can stay safer while doing that. And I'm wondering, you kind of hinted at some of those things earlier. And I'm wondering if you want to talk about those things? Ellie 17:37 Yeah, for sure, and there are a few different sort of, I guess, like scales, we can think about that at. But, one thing that I see that I think is very encouraging to me is is that thus far, if we look at discourse within leftist gun culture, and you know, I can get into this, you know, it's it is worth sort of figuring out or specifying like, what the 'we' is that we're talking here. But, leftist gun culture is extremely queer, it turns out already. We don't have to make that happen. It's just the way it has happened so far. And that sort of queer leftist gun culture idea's....discourse about safety is really prominent, and I'm not sure exactly why that came to be the case. I think partially it came to be the case in response to or a sort of a, you know, a conscious way of differentiating this culture and these discourses from a lot of the ways that we see guns talked about in right wing gun culture, and maybe even in this sort of the more centrist gun discourse, but very basic stuff, like you know, the the four universal rules of firearm safety are things that if you're in a leftist gun forum online, or somewhere, you're gonna see this stuff constantly, like it's over emphasized, it's constantly there. Margaret 19:07 You can...go ahead and emphasize them. Ellie 19:09 Yeah, absolutely. So first of all, assume that every gun you encounter is loaded, and/or some people prefer to phrase that as, make sure you know the condition of any gun you encounter. And never point a gun at anything or anybody that you're not willing to destroy. Always know your target, and what's beyond it. And, when you are shooting or holding a gun, keep your finger off the trigger unless you're on target and ready to shoot something. So, this is sort of four basic rules that we encounter every day that we're sort of interacting with radical gun core, gun discourse, or leftist or queer gun discourse. And what I see a lot of also is, you know, in these online spaces or real world spaces, just a lot of critique, whether it's like sort of humerous and making fun of people or more seriously criticizing folks for dangerous practices for, you know, unsafe gun handling, for unsafe attitudes, for bringing guns into places where they're just don't reasonably seem to make sense. These types of things. Margaret 20:18 Like where? Ellie 20:19 Well, so I've, I've noticed a lot, or a fair amount of, of discourse and sort of debate about gun ownership among unhoused people and in, you know, in encampments and places like that, where most folks who are living on the street or living in tents or something aren't going to be able to have a safe in their tent or with them as they're moving around the world. They're not gonna have a lockbox or something heavy like that. So is it responsible to have a gun in a situation like that? Even you know, we know that situations like that put people at more risk for violent crime and for being victimized, but is having a gun something that's actually feasible and safe in that context? That's the type of question that I that I see discussed a lot in the spaces that doesn't, I don't think come up to the same extent in in other areas of gun culture, sort of the more right leaning gun discourses out there. So yeah, discussions about whether or not it's actually always a good idea or always safe or reasonable to have guns in certain contexts. Conversations about the logic and the suitability or appropriateness of open carrying and various public contexts, these are things that I think, receive a lot more attention and debate in our area of the gun world than in others. Not that everybody's always on the same page, or always agrees, but that there's discourse and debate about these things, I think is telling. And it seems like, no, I mean, I've seen queer online celebrities in the sort of online gun world get, you know, criticized or canceled for doing dumb shit with guns on Instagram or whatever, just being unsafe and not sort of upholding what this community has decided its values around gun safety are. That's that I mean, it is becoming more common in centrist and right wing gun discourse to talk about certain things like mental illness. We see more and more programs, like Hold My Guns at, you know, mainstream, right wing gun shops and stuff where people are able to store their guns for free if they're in a dangerous situation. So that's, it's not entirely absent. But, I think it's something that we embrace and sort of emphasize more. It's not just this thing, that's never...that's available, but not mentioned, or that sort of, you know, stigmatized, it's understood that this is part of part of our lives, you know, as queer people tend to be very open about mental health, open about issues of safety and comfort, stuff that we talk about all the time in various contexts. And so adding that, you know, adding this sort of gun safety dimension to that is not difficult or uncomfortable for us as it is for some other folks. Margaret 23:11 To talk about some of the specific practices, I'm glad if gun stores are starting to do that. Because one of the one of the complicating factors in any kind of...I probably said this on the show before, but in general, I believe a thing that communities should consider adopting, and I've been part of communities that adopt this is that if you get broken up with, it doesn't matter whether or not you personally think your mental health is doing just fine. Right? But at that point, your risk model has changed to self harm is more...is a higher threat than external harm in most situations. So like, I've been in parts of communities where it's like, it's not a question. So you're no longer analyzing, "Oh, how am I feeling today? Should I give up my guns today," but instead of just like no, if you get dumped, or you go through a bad breakup, or you know, a bunch of other different types of things, like, you know, one of your friends will come, and since the transfer of firearms is very complicated, legally, usually take the bolt out of any kind of rifle or take the, the barrel out of any kind of handgun, and just hold on to them until, you know, a little bit of time has passed and you can start having conversations. And I've been really proud to be part of communities that do that. And I don't know I....that's one that I like, I'm wondering, I'm curious if there's examples of things that you've been around or things that you've seen have worked that are very, like concrete? Ellie 24:36 Yeah, I mean, that's a that's such a good example. I mean, I you know, I'm a firearms instructor and make a big deal about the importance of being armed. But, you know, I went through a thing a couple of months ago, and I gave a friend of mine the keys to my gun safe for several weeks. So, I think that it's great to have norms and to have that as sort of like an accepted thing that we do. Other sort of concrete stuff, I think, like, as I was kind of hinting at earlier, one concrete practice that I see in leftist and queer gun communities is the willingness to just shame people with a pretty low bar for shaming for any sort of perceived unsafe practices. And beyond that, you know, we...I've been part of conversations about, you know, whether it's appropriate or acceptable to, you know, have a have an occasion where we're drinking and shooting guns, because drinking is fun and shooting guns is fun, so we can do these things together. And that's something that that has been sort of an idea that's been shut down pretty quickly. Obviously, this is not a universally agreed upon concept that you shouldn't shoot while you're drunk. But, it's something that that I see a lot of people talk about and agree with. Margaret 25:53 I think you shouldn't shoot while drunk. I'm just gonna go on the record here. Ellie 25:57 I'm gonna endorese that as well. In my professional capacity, I highly endorse that position. Also, you know, I see folks who do, you know, instructional content online, stuff like that, really emphasizing pretty mundane safety concerns around stuff like dry fire practice, you know, we make a big deal out of rules, like if you're going to do dry fire practice, which everyone should be doing every day, by the way, you have all live ammunition in a completely different room of your house. You just have no proximity between ammunition and firearms when you're not trying to have loaded guns for a particular reason. So, there's that sort of thing. And it's, I guess, like, what I mean by that is, if we, if we look at all of this sort of online gun content that's created by leftists and queer leftists, I rarely see the importance of dry fire practice mentioned without also in the same breath, mentioning, make sure there's no live ammo here. So things like that there's sort of constant emphasizing of safety at every different sort of stage or aspect of gun ownership is definitely a thing. Margaret 27:10 Okay, well, beyond gun safety, right? Gun Safety is like kind of one element of it. But, I think that some of the negative feedback I've heard, and honestly, some that I share about the gun culture that we're building, or things that we could be doing better, one of them for me is that I...I see, and I'm curious, your thought about this, like, a balance between people starting to go kind of macho, and then people kind of trying to rein that in. And I don't necessarily mean macho, and I like masculine way, it's a very complicated word. But, you know, this idea of like, Hmm...I think that sometimes people get excited around the concepts of conflict, and they get excited by having the means to deadly force on their person. And personally, and I, you know, say this, as someone who's, you know, roughly 40, or whatever, it's easier for me to say, in some ways, I think that that is a terrible, a grave mistake. I think that carrying is this very serious and weighty thing that changes the way that you interact with space, it changes the way you interact with people, both strangers, and your friends. And, it should be felt as a burden in the same way that any, like heavy responsibility should be felt as a burden. If I am carrying I have accepted the responsibility of staying sober. I've accepted the responsibility of defending other people. I've also accepted the responsibility of like not being able to talk shit, which is like really frustrating. This is kind of a tangent, but like, one of the...one of the most annoying things for me about carrying is that you just gotta let shit go. Ellie 28:56 Yeah. Margaret 28:57 And, and sometimes that's not how you want to be. But I worry about an excitement around guns, turning into an excitement around conflict, rather than being a prepared for conflict. And I'm curious, your thoughts on that. This is me sticking a question mark at the end of my own statement. Ellie 29:17 Yeah, I mean, I think that the way you've just sort of talked about the the weightiness of carrying and carrying a gun as a responsibility, I really see those same ideas very prominent in the discourse. Basically, like I would say that most people I talked to explicitly about, you know, gun...about carrying guns and about self and community defense have said similar things to me. And I've also I've heard from a number of, of, of radical gun owners, you know, not just that sentiment that you've expressed, but also this, and I don't know how, you know, valid and true it is, but this idea that well, the other folks, you know, focus on the right conservative gun owners, they don't have this mindset of responsibility and of avoiding conflict. In fact, you'll often you'll often sort of see or perceive this, this eagerness for conflict. You can go into right wing forums and hear people talking about how excited they are to, to have an opportunity to be a good guy with a gun, to use that gun. That's an idea that a lot of folks on the left have expressed to me and these conversations like, and I, I have never sort of tried to do a quantitative study of whether or not that that's the case. But, I certainly see, even if there's not this eagerness for armed conflict among the people we envision as our opponents or as, or as our threats, there is this ingrained and very vocal idea in queer and leftist gun culture that eagerness for conflict is wrong, that, you know, we're not carrying because we want to find an opportunity to use these things. We're carrying with the steadfast hope that we never will, and that, and the sort of commitment to minimizing occasions for having to use these tools of force. And I think, you know, I see a lot of folks, you know, talking about all of the other things that one has to know how to do if one's going to carry a gun. And this is something that I talk about when I'm teaching as well, you know, if you're going to carry a gun, you had better also be carrying something less lethal, you would also better be confident in your skills to at least try to de-escalate a situation, and to try to escape a situation. You know, the way the way that I sort of think about it, and that I I see a lot of other people talk about it is, you know, the first best option, if you're in a threatening situation is to leave it. And if, or only when you cannot escape that situation, you should be prepared to fight. And if you're going to be prepared to fight, you need to be prepared to win. And that's particularly important when other people are involved when talking about a sort of community defense situation, rather than than an individual personal defense situation. It's not about courting violence, but it's about you know, understanding that when you are at that last recourse, that you have that recourse and you're prepared to use it. But I do see that this idea emphasized pretty frequently and pretty prominently in the discourse that you know, that we have this responsibility to know how to avoid, to know how to minimize or de-escalate conflict, and that we cannot ever sort of go around looking for it. Margaret 32:48 Yeah. Ellie 32:49 Whether or not that really ends up being the case in practice is a little bit harder to say, I mean, you know, we're seeing a lot more leftists and queers bringing arms to public demos and protests and stuff like that. That's not a bad thing. Because a lot of the time that people who are threatening these public events and demos or whatever, are doing so with arms. And I think, as I said earlier, like armed deterrence is crucial for our community. So, I'm not opposed to people making a show of arms in public. But we have to make sure and, you know, I can't sort of say without a lot more data, that when we're doing that, we're not doing it provocatively. And there's sort of, you know, I, I have seen, I've seen in some contexts, some discourse around defending...for instance, there, in certain parts of the country, there have been a lot of attacks or threats against drag queen story hours, or other sort of queer events in various places and armed defensive operations to protect those events. When we're doing that, are the people who are showing up to defend or who are talking online about those defensive actions, are they talking shit? Are they, you know, flaunting this ability to use armed force? Are they sort of going out and and thumping their chestat the adversary or the imagined adversary? If they are, that's highly problematic, and I'm not gonna say it doesn't happen. I think sometimes it does. I do think that, that our discourses tend to stress the responsibility and the necessity of avoiding that, but I don't know that it actually happens less frequently than with other, you know, with folks on the right. I hoped that it does, but... Margaret 34:48 Yeah, I mean, I think that's why I was wanted to frame it at the beginning. It's like talking about minimizing the problems that are going to be involved when you introduce guns, because I think it's on some level impossible to introduce firearms into a situation and not have people feel....Some people feel some level of excitement around that, right? And, and I don't think that's inherently wrong, I think it's just something that we need to be like really cognizant of. And I do wonder, you know, this idea that the right wing, you know, is chomping at the bit...champing at the bit, whatever, you know, in order to cause violence or whatever, I suspect that it's at a higher rate. But I also suspect, the sort of center right, or the more like, just excited about guns and just excited about comu....well, they probably wouldn't phrase it community defense, but just excited about like, the concept of being a, you know, protective person or self defense or whatever. You know, when I personally interact in a gun space with someone who probably isn't ideologically aligned with me, they take that weight very seriously. But, as compared to...I don't, I probably don't interact with the far right, you know, on purpose ever and so it's hard to know, but I think that another thing that I worry about, especially in a situation, it's basically it's like, everything is a lot more serious when there's a fucking gun on the table. Ellie 36:16 For sure. Margaret 36:17 You know, I worry about anything that we do to dehumanize our enemies, while still recognizing that they're...I mean, they're enemies, there's increasing section of the US population that would like to see me dead, that believes I am a like crime against the Bible or something for existing, you know. And I seek to be prepared for those people coming to power, those people individually trying to harm me or my community. But I worry about...a lot of rhetoric that I think the left used before everything was armed, probably can't really keep going now that everyone is armed around this kind of like, oh, well, fuck all of these people who are outside my own ideological framework or whatever. I think we have to be like way more specific about who...I'm trying to be really careful about my words here, because I can kind of see both sides of the same of the thing that I'm saying here. But I think we have to be really careful about who we declare an enemy. You know? Ellie 37:21 I think that's fair. Yeah. I mean, that that makes a lot of sensee. Absolutely. I and it is definitely, there are definitely tendencies on the left to adopt a kind of, you know, if you're, if you're not with us, you're against us mindset towards society at large and toward, you know, the political realm, especially. You know, we often as leftists, and as as queer people, you know, talk shit about liberals and talk shit about centrists. I mean, this idea that literally everybody out there wants to hurt us, and is part of the problem. Yeah, it does. That can certainly translate into sort of a not just a factionalization, or a hardening of social identities, but to a dehumanization, I think. I think it's absolutely right to call out that risk. One thing that that sort of made me think of, though, it's kind of a separate, it's a distinct issue, but I think it's relevant in some ways is whether or not we dehumanize the people who are on quote, unquote, "our side" as well. And I think one really important difference between between radical gun culture, and both centrist and sort of state friendly gun culture and far right gun culture is whether or not armed people are distinguished from everybody else. And I think, you know, one of the most common catchphrases in leftist politics and street organizing and direct action, all sorts of stuff is you know, "We keep us safe." And that's a phrase that actually really encapsulates an important concept that it's not about...carrying a gun for most of us, I think is not about being that good guy with a gun, like yes, you're equipping yourself to be able to use armed defense, but you are not separating yourself from the people you're defending. Whereas I think, on the right and and traditional or or sort of mainstream hegemonic gun culture, there is this distinction, it's, you know, one takes on the role of the protector of the family, of women folk, of whatever, of people who aren't able to are capable of protecting themselves and sort of separates themselves from the rest of the group from society, whereas I think that, or I see that on the left there's any sort of distinction between, you know, armed protectors and everybody else is frowned upon, is often countered sharply, rhetorically, and the ideal instead is that we all of us collectively participate in our own defense and in our mutual defense. And if we do so with arms, that doesn't sort of make us different, it doesn't put us in a different caste than everyone else who isn't armed. It's just sort of, that's our capacity that we're able to take on. It's what we choose. And we all have different roles to play in defending the collective. Some people do that through arms, but they're not sort of, you know, the assigned defenders. And this comes up a lot in street action contexts where, you know, you have people, you know, throughout 2020, we saw folks doing protest defense and stuff like that. And there was often a lot of debate or argument about, you know, the, the concept of people providing security or people sort of taking on the role of being part of a security team. And that's been heavily criticized in a lot of quarters. It's like the idea of, of sort of separating yourself out like that, it just makes you a makes you a leftist cop. It doesn't make you...it takes you out of the collective. So, that's a, that's an aspect that I think is extremely valuable in our gun culture. Margaret 41:21 And both things are related to the same thing about how guns escalate problems of power and authority, right? And so we have to be more on top of our shit, in terms of avoiding any sort of authoritarianism, avoiding any sort of, yeah, leftist cops or whatever. No, that's such...I remember, the first time I heard about this sheepdog concept I was doing...I was sitting by the side of the road at a forest defense camp like 20 years ago in the land far, far away. And a cop drives by and I, you know, radio it in, and he's like, "Hey, you're on channel four, aren't you?" And I'm like, "Yeah, whatever." And I was like, "Hey, I got a question for you." And he's like, "What?" I was like, "Why did you decide to become a cop? It's like, the most hated job in the world. Like, why would you do that?" Which I do not advocate this as a way to interact with police. But it was what I chose to do. And, and he was like, "Well, that's not the way I see it." And I was like, "Well, how do you see it?" And he's like, "There's three kinds of people in this world. There's, there's wolves, and there's sheep." And I was like, "Okay, that's, that's two kinds of people." And he was like, "And then there's me, I'm a sheepdog." And I thought about it for a minute. And I was like, "Are you calling me a wolf?" And then he like kind of couldn't justify that because I was literally just some fucking hippie punk by the side of the road and trying to stop some logging. And so he like rolled up his window and drove away. And, and it was the first time I heard of this concept that's very common in police circles. And, I don't know if it's common in right wing militia circles, but it's common in a lot of like right wing gun culture, at least center right gun culture, this idea that the world is sheep and wolves, and you are the Sheepdog, the other dangerous creature, you know, the good guy with the gun. And it's always rubbed me the wrong way. And you articulated it better than that. I just want to tell the story about yelling at a cop, which no one should do. Ellie 43:12 Yeah, I think that's exactly right. Yeah, that's sort of, you know, I see a lot more calling out of that kind of mindset than I see a repetition of that kind of mindset in leftist gun culture. Margaret 43:25 Yeah. No, this is actually very exciting, because I am not deeply involved in...well I live alone on a mountain. And so hearing you talk about the way that these things are developing and stuff feels very optimistic to me, not in a like blind optimism, like just like, literally, like, it seems like these are the conversations that are happening and that need to keep happening. I'm wondering if there are other, you know, weaknesses that we need to shore up or like things that you think that we should be doing better? Or things that you're really proud of that we do? I mean, I guess you've talked about some of the things that we should be proud of, that we take these things into consideration, but... Ellie 44:07 Yeah, and maybe I'll start with another one of those sort of, 'Yay for us angles,' which is the you know, gun ownership and, and the capacity or skill for armed defense in queer and leftist gun culture is...has been strongly or been pretty decisively detached from any version of masculinity that exists in our world. And what we see a lot of is sort of celebrations of or acknowledgement of this link between both queerness broadly and queer femininity and guns. There's been a lot of sort of, I see a lot of reclaiming of, of sexuality, of links between sexuality or sexual expression and gun ownership, but done in ways that are extremely positive and empowering and self determined rather than sort of ex....rather than based on an external male gaze, but based on the sort of like, "No, I am a sexy queer femme, and I'm gonna pose naked with my rifle, because I fucking feel like it." There's a lot of that, you know, very conscious and overt queering, and regendering and resexualizing of guns and of competence, you know, of gun skill that goes on in this discourse in these communities, which I think is really cool and really healthy. Things that that we're...that we're not great at, or that we need to be careful of. I think that you know, that sort of sheepdog concept that we were just talking about, it's what...that's an ever present threat, and it's something that's going to wax and wane based on context. When we had, you know, in 2020, when we had shit going on in the street all the time, and so many more people getting armed and so many people, both participating in street protests and direct actions, and people engaged in defense of those actions, the more of that we saw, the more slippage there was in this sort of, you know, dedication to a pure and unadulterated, you know, collectivity and non differentiation of protectors and protected. So, that's always going to be a significant pitfall when things get hotter, and when things get more active, and, and arms are needed more prominently and more frequently. It's something that's always...it's a battle that always has to be fought both sort of in one's own psyche and in the community. That one's not going to go away. I also sort of...I wonder about the, I mean, I think I've sort of talked about regendering and I think that that's happening in a way that that makes a lot of sense. And that is very positive as I've said, but there are also pockets of leftist gun world where armed defense is mostly being done by white cis men, or even, God forbid straight men. And there does seem to be this sort of, not necessarily a conscious or deliberate division of labor. But, you know, in this society, boys grew up playing with guns, and men are still more likely to own guns and be comfortable around guns than women are. And I think it may be the case, it may, it may be the case, in fact, that the reverse is true among trans people for that obvious reason of socialization. But either way, those gender divisions still do exist. And it has to be a conscious and deliberate process of undoing them, otherwise, they're going to just stay there. So assuming that you know, that queers are going to automatically queer gun culture is overly simplistic. We won't. We have to really want to, and we have to be always trying to complicate, and queerl and question gun ownership and everything about owning and using guns, and not just assume that we're going to do it better than they do, because we're better people, because we're more evolved people, because we're, you know, leftists and we don't want to hurt people. So there is that, for sure. I think also, you know, I mean, I guess the sort of biggest pitfalls are the ones we've already talked about that one, and then also the problem of whether or not people are going to be seeking out or, or might be more likely to get into conflict. Other than that, I mean, one thing that is always going to be an issue with guns is access, and particularly access in terms of affordability, monetary access, like, it's still the case that, that guns cost a lot of money, and certain of us are going to be more able to buy them than others and certain of us are gonna going to be, you know, more likely to prioritize that in our budgets than other people. And I think that working a lot more, to bring access to guns and to defensive skills in line with our leftist sensibilities and values is really important. It's not enough to just, you know, want everybody on the left to get armed. What are we doing to make sure that people who can't afford a gun still get one and know how to and are trained and using it, people who can't afford to take classes are able to do that. We have to be taking really deliberate and conscious steps and building a sort of infrastructure in order for that to happen. Margaret 49:55 Yeah. Ellie 49:55 And we still don't see anything, you know, like large scale efforts to manufacture and distribute guns among queers and leftists, which is totally feasible, it's something that can be done, but we're not doing it. And it's still, you know, it's still cost a lot of money to do something like take my basic pistol class, and we can sort of put aside free seats or have sliding scales for stuff like that. But if we're not actively doing that, then we're not making things more accessible for everybody, we're still sort of following the same lines of access and division and distinction that already exist. So that, you know, yeah, so that's a big one to me. Margaret 50:32 Well it's interesting, because one of the things you brought up earlier about how, in some ways within a queer gun culture, trans femmes probably have, like, it's possible that we are the more armed, contingent or whatever. And, you know, and I think that, you know, the point you brought up about, like, growing up playing with guns and things like that, and just like, the socialization we receive, based on, you know, the sex we've been assigned to birth or whatever, seems to play a big part in it. And it also, I think it does position us in this, in this way to be good at bringing these skills into femme spaces. And maybe that's like a little bit too, I don't know, it's the kind of conversation it's like, sometimes hard to have, because I think people have a lot of, for very good reason, very intense feelings about, you know, what it means to be trans feminine, what socialization looks like, all of these different things. But I have found that not universally, whatever, I'll just my...Twitter brain is on. So I keep thinking about everything I'm saying, and how could possibly be considered wrong. But I have had experiences where I often learn better from women, and other women I know often learn better from women. And so I've been able to use that in positive ways, as a woman teaching other women, or as someone who isn't a cis man teaching other people who aren't cis men. And I think that is something that, you know, we can really break down and a lot of my friends who are, you know, cis men or, you know, straight cis men or whatever, you know, are wondering how to put their skills that they've carefully cultivated to use and training and stuff like that. And I think that that is very useful and very important. But I personally would say, and you might have, you've probably done more thinking about this, teaching trainers, you know, teaching other people who can then go out and be trainers, rather than necessarily being the end...the person who teaches all of the students is a good way to then actually distribute power and break down a lot of siloing of information. I don't know. Ellie 52:48 Yeah, no, I mean, I think that's, that's a really good point. And just generally speaking, anytime we can take whatever privilege we find and distribute it, and thus undo it, it's always a positive thing. But I think you're right. I mean, I definitely, throughout my life always avoided whenever possible male teachers and male instructors or male authority figures at all in preference for female ones. And that still remains the case. And I think that that is, that's pretty common, for sure. So it's, it is important, we need to be conscious of that. And I think, you know, making sure that men with particular skills don't just sort of automatically appoint themselves as the the teachers of these skills is a great point. Yeah. Margaret 53:37 So I've one final question. And it's like many of my questions today, not incredibly well formed. But we talked earlier about self harm, and how communities need to, you know, stay aware of everyone's kind of risk model and things like that as relates to self harm. But, there's also intimate partner violence. And one of the things, one of the push backs I've gotten from, you know, a queer anarchist friend of mine, who I had a conversation with this about recently, is sort of part of the mourning of the army of the left is even while accepting on some level, the necessity of it based on what's happening in the world and what's, you know, the increased likelihood and increased presence of the need not just for self defense, but community defense. Is that...Well, basically that it statistically, historically makes a lot of people less safe, in terms of intimate partner partner violence, and specifically like...I should have looked up the studies before I started recording, but I've, you know, I've read some articles about some studies that talk about how a cis woman who lives with a man with a gun is just less safe on a like statistical level. And it opens up a lot of questions. And one of the questions for me, is how does a community decide, you know, decide who has guns at any given moment? You know, how does...How do we minimize the danger of not just self harm, but of like, you know, people getting mad about some bullshit? Ellie 55:30 Yeah. That is such a tough question. I think that... Margaret 55:36 Yeah, I saved the easy one for the end. Ellie 55:40 I mean, and I guess, you know, I'll admit, first of all that, you know, this is not an area that I particularly specialize in is sort of thinking about domestic partner violence and intimate violence, but it's something that matters a great deal, obviously. I think that clearly having guns in the house, as you say, is, is going to make people less safe who were in abusive relationships or violent relationships. But I do think, you know, again, it's not gonna be blind optimism at all, but we do think a lot more in queer communities and in leftist communities about all of the ways that people need to be able to access safety and able to escape dangerous situations, and, and also the ways that, you know, danger and and sort of harm and in the domestic environment hide from public view and from the community. We think about these things more than other...that doesn't immunize us to these dangers, obviously. And I don't know how to really ensure that we're...I don't know how to minimize this threat effectively, other than to probably I think, normalize and really spread the idea that what's going on in each other's relationships, and homes, and families, actually is the business of the community. And I think that that's, you know, that opposes a lot of thinking that, you know, exists in mainstream society, and especially in like, sort of nuclear family based society, where in the house and the household is sovereign and sacred. I think that leftists in particular, and queers in particular, because we have different understandings of what society is supposed to be. And we, particularly queers, have different understandings of what family is supposed to be and can be, there's a better...we have an opportunity to sort of establish norms of maybe one way to think about is domestic transparency, you know, it's not just my business how I treat my spouse, or my partner, or my kids, it is, in fact the business of my comrades in my community, the business of, you know, my buddy on the community defense team, my, you know, my friends and sort of comrades at the mutual aid project or whatever. It's all of our business whether or not I'm in an abusive situation, whether or not I am an abuser, whether or not you know, somebody in my life is dangerous to me, or is at risk. I guess making these things our business and normalizing some level of that transparency in that in the household and sort of making more porous, those boundaries of domesticity and of intimate relationships may be part of the solution here, or part of the way that we mitigate that danger more effectively than society has done thus far. Margaret 59:03 No, that, that makes a lot of sense, it does feel like almost every time there's a problem, the answer is community. You know, and it keeps coming. It's a recurring theme on the show, and not even necessarily on purpose, you know, just as you think through various types of problems. I do think that there's something that I wish...well, I'm opinionated about, which doesn't make me right, but I've seen some discourse around and I've not been totally pleased by what I've seen, personally, which is that like, around consent and guns, around the idea that like, like...if I'm going to have someone over to my house, I want them to know the situation of the guns in the house and I want them to have a say in that, you know? There's like a would...is it okay if someone brings a gun on a date discourse, right, that I've I've seen a bit of, and like, you know, there's sort of a, "It's nobody's business if I'm carrying," and I don't believe that. I believe that it would be a perfectly reasonable position to be like, I'm going on a date with someone and I don't know them very well.I don't want them to have a gun on them. I think that that is a, a reasonable thing that someone could want or a thing that might be worth clearing with people, you know, if that is like, a thing you do regularly, for a lot of reasons. And, you know, a lot of people need guns to be unavailable in certain ways for a lot of different reasons. Ellie 1:00:41 Yeah. Margaret 1:00:41 I don't know. That's really more of a...I keep doing this statement instead of question thing in this conversation. Ellie 1:00:46 No, I'm super glad that you brought that up. I think that's really important. And I've sort of...since I started carrying, I have myself, made that a practice, essentially, I don't carry a gun on a first date. And thus far, it's been my practice to make it a second date conversation. "Hey, I sometimes carry a pistol." Ellie 1:01:10 "Does that make you uncomfortable?" And if it does, like, that's okay. I don't always...I don't have to carry it when we're together. And so far, the people I've done that with have told me "No, I'm feeling much more comfortable knowing that you're caring. I like that. And I think that's good." So I think that is a conversation that really, it's definitely no harder or no more awkward to have than all of the other things we have to be talking about on first and second dates, like, you know, or, our STI status and all of that sort of stuff. And, and yeah, being conscious of that. And, you know, for instance, are you going to see a friend who who has kids living with them? Are you going on a date with somebody who has a family? Like...Are there people involved in the situation who do not have the opportunity to consent to me being armed? And if so, I...It's probably best that I'm not until I can, you know, change that dynamic. I think that that's a great way to think about it is connecting it to that consent conversation. Absolutely. Margaret 1:01:10 Yeah. Margaret 1:02:11 Yeah. Yeah. Well, maybe that's a good note to end on. Unless you have additional things that you really feel like we should have covered or.... Ellie 1:02:21 No, I think I thought of something really brilliant a little while ago, and then it went away. So I think I'm happy there. Thank you. Margaret 1:02:29 Yeah, well, okay, if people are interested in knowing more about you, or your classes, or any of the stuff that you do, is that something that you want people to know about? Ellie 1:02:39 Yeah, for sure. We, my co instructor and I, have a an active Instagram presence that people can check out that's a somewhat clunky username but if you're on Instagram, it's "ATW" as in arm trans women, "dot firearms dot INST" (ATW.Firearms.Inst). And It's not a good handle, but it's the one we have my own handle on Instagram is "Codename_Ellie" and people can very easily connect to my all of my gun work through that personal account as well. In addition to some other cool stuff that I do, so yeah. Margaret 1:03:15 Cool. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming on. Ellie 1:03:19 Thank you, Margaret. Margaret 1:03:19 Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed today's episode, please tell people about it. Tell people about it in person, and you've heard me if you've ever listened this podcast, you've heard me make this Schpeel many times before, but tell the internet, tell your friends. Word of mouth is the main way that people know about this podcast. And so really appreciate any word of mouth that you feel like doing. You can also support this podcast more directly by supporting it financially, by supporting our publisher, which is Strangers In A Tangled Wilderness, which is a super cool collective of anarchist publishing that does podcasts, and zines, and books, and stuff, including our latest book, which is called "Try Anarchism for Life" by Cindy Milstein that is really worth checking out and that's at "Tangledwilderness.org" But if you want to support the podcast, you end up supporting the people who, at the moment I don't take any money from hosting this, I'm not opposed to it, but you know, we don't make enough just yet because more importantly, the transcriptionist and the audioeditor and the producer, some of which overlap, other people who work on this podcast get paid for their work and I think that that's like a really fucking important thing. Because it's a lot of work. And so if you want to support us go to "patreon.com/strangersinatangledwilderness". And in particular, I would like to thank paparouna, Milica, Boise mutual aid, Theo, Hunter, Shawn, S.J., Paige, Mikki, Nicole, David, Dana, Chelsea, Cat J, Staro, Jenipher, Eleanor, Kirk, Sam, Chris, Miciaiah, and Hoss the Dog, your contributions make this possible. And yeah, everyone else well, and including the people I just mentioned, I hope you're doing well. And yeah, I don't know and I hope everything is good and happy and good in the world, even when it's not. Ellie 1:03:19 Thank you, Margaret. Find out more at https://live-like-the-world-is-dying.pinecast.co

O BRASIL AINDA É O PAÍS DO FUTEBOL? - 20 Minutos AnáliseNo 20 MINUTOS ANÁLISE dessa quarta-feira (30/11), o jornalista Breno Altman observa as ligações do Brasil com o futebol, debatendo se o esporte ainda é o mais popular do país. Acompanhe!----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

LINCOLN SECCO: QUAL PT VOLTA AO GOVERNO? - 20 Minutos EntrevistaNo programa 20 MINUTOS dessa segunda-feira (28/11), o jornalista Breno Altman entrevistou o professor de História Contemporânea na Universidade de São Paulo (USP) Lincoln Secco acerca de como será o terceiro governo de Luiz Inácio Lula da Silva.----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

Peti Németországban dolgozott, és majdnem új fényképezőgépet vásárolt. Új fotós mellényt viszont tényleg vásárolt, és beszámol tapasztalatairól. A Fujifilm hasít az Instax eladásokkal, Gábort viszont megszivatta az Instax 3db fekete képpel, így nem lett kész a házi feladat. Megbeszéljük hogyan próbálunk pihenni, de a valódi szünet tartása csak kisebb-nagyobb sikerrel megy. Az adás linkje: https://tripodcast.hu/90 Műsorvezetők: Láng Péter, Lénárt Gábor, Varga Benedek Támogass minket Patreonon: https://tripodcast.hu/patreon Csatlakozz a Tripodcast Community Facebook csoporthoz! http://tripodcast.hu/community Küldj nekünk hangüzenetben kérdést! http://tripodcast.hu/messages Az adást a Tripont, a Manfrotto, a Fujifilm, a Samyang, a NiSi, a Velbon és a Hähnel támogatta! Egyéni oktatásról az alábbi linken kaphattok információt: https://tripodcast.hu/oktatas Kövess minket Instán: https://www.instagram.com/tripodcast_ Az adásban elhangzott témák, linkek: - Newswear fotós mellény: https://www.newswear.com/mdigitaldetail.htm - Shotkit felmérés: https://shotkit.com/camera-survey/ - Fujifilm 2022 Q2 Financial Results: https://www.fujirumors.com/fujifilm-financial-results-for-q2-fy2022-instax-beats-nikon-and-brisk-digital-camera-sales-push-imaging-division-yoy-revenue-23-7/

América Latina: a onda é vermelha ou rosa? Quem responde a pergunta é Mônica Valente, do Foro de São Paulo, no 20 MINUTOS dessa sexta-feira (25/11). Não perca!----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

Líder indígena e deputada federal eleita pelo PSOL, Sônia Guajajara é a convidada de Breno Altman para o 20 MINUTOS desta quinta-feira (24/11). Não perca!----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos! ★ Support this podcast ★

LIBERAIS ABANDONARAM GOLPISMO? - 20 Minutos AnáliseNesta quarta-feira (23/11), o jornalista Breno Altman apresenta um 20 MINUTOS ANÁLISE com o tema: "Liberais abandonaram golpismo?". ----Quer contribuir com Opera Mundi via PIX? Nossa chave é apoie@operamundi.com.br (Razão Social: Última Instância Editorial Ltda.). Desde já agradecemos!Assinatura solidária: http://www.operamundi.com.br/apoio ★ Support this podcast ★

Shilpa Alimchandani immigrated from India to the United States when only a few months old. As with many immigrants we have interviewed here on Unstoppable Mindset, Shilpa grew up experiencing two worlds. As she describes it, she grew up in a South Asian home experiencing that culture, and later she experienced the wider world around her as she went to school and went out on her own. Her perspectives on her life and what she has learned are fascinating to hear about.   As you will experience, in addition to living, if you will, between two cultures, the color of her skin also caused her to experience challenges. Her “brown skin” did not fit within the normal world of dark-skinned people and her skin was certainly not white. As she tells us, some of the treatment she experienced showed her just how unfair people can be. However, as you will hear, she rose above much of that and has thrived in the world.   Shilpa will tell you about her life journey that lead her to form her company, MUK-tee which means “liberation” in Sanskrit. You will hear about her life as a leadership coach and as a DEI consultant helping many to move toward true transformational change.   About the Guest:   Shilpa Alimchandani is the Founder and Principal of Mookti Consulting. Mookti Consulting partners with clients to break free from oppressive systems and facilitate transformational change. In Sanskrit, mookti मुक्ति (MUK-tee) means liberation. Shilpa has more than 20 years of experience in diversity, equity and inclusion (DEI), leadership development, and intercultural learning. She is a DEI consultant, leadership coach, and facilitator who works with clients to develop holistic solutions that lead to transformational change. In her independent consulting practice, Shilpa has conducted DEI assessments, co-created DEI strategies with clients, facilitated high-impact workshops, and advised clients on issues of racial equity and justice. In her role as the Director of Learning & Innovation for Cook Ross, she built the learning and development function from the ground up and led the organization's curriculum and product development initiatives. With her deep knowledge of various learning modalities, intercultural leadership development, and human-centered design, Shilpa is able to craft interventions that are targeted, impactful, and appropriate for diverse, global audiences. Before her work at Cook Ross, Shilpa designed and implemented global leadership programs for the State Department, led the development of a global learning strategy for the Peace Corps, and taught in the School of International Service at American University. She has facilitated trainings in nearly 20 countries around the world, and has received numerous awards, including twice receiving the Peace Corps' Distinguished Service Award. She is the author of the book Communicating Development Across Cultures: Monologues & Dialogues in Development Project Implementation (Lambert Academic Publishing, 2010), and has been an invited speaker at numerous conferences, including The Forum on Workplace Inclusion and the Society for Intercultural Education, Training, and Research (SIETAR). She has also been a guest lecturer at numerous academic institutions, including Georgetown University and the United States Institute of Peace.   Social Media Links: Website: mookticonsulting.com LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shilpaalimchandani/     About the Host: Michael Hingson is a New York Times best-selling author, international lecturer, and Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe. Michael, blind since birth, survived the 9/11 attacks with the help of his guide dog Roselle. This story is the subject of his best-selling book, Thunder Dog.   Michael gives over 100 presentations around the world each year speaking to influential groups such as Exxon Mobile, AT&T, Federal Express, Scripps College, Rutgers University, Children's Hospital, and the American Red Cross just to name a few. He is Ambassador for the National Braille Literacy Campaign for the National Federation of the Blind and also serves as Ambassador for the American Humane Association's 2012 Hero Dog Awards.   https://michaelhingson.com https://www.facebook.com/michael.hingson.author.speaker/ https://twitter.com/mhingson https://www.youtube.com/user/mhingson https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelhingson/   accessiBe Links https://accessibe.com/ https://www.youtube.com/c/accessiBe https://www.linkedin.com/company/accessibe/mycompany/ https://www.facebook.com/accessibe/       Thanks for listening! Thanks so much for listening to our podcast! If you enjoyed this episode and think that others could benefit from listening, please share it using the social media buttons on this page. Do you have some feedback or questions about this episode? Leave a comment in the section below!   Subscribe to the podcast If you would like to get automatic updates of new podcast episodes, you can subscribe to the podcast on Apple Podcasts or Stitcher. You can also subscribe in your favorite podcast app.   Leave us an Apple Podcasts review Ratings and reviews from our listeners are extremely valuable to us and greatly appreciated. They help our podcast rank higher on Apple Podcasts, which exposes our show to more awesome listeners like you. If you have a minute, please leave an honest review on Apple Podcasts.     Transcription Notes Michael Hingson  00:00 Access Cast and accessiBe Initiative presents Unstoppable Mindset. The podcast where inclusion, diversity and the unexpected meet. Hi, I'm Michael Hingson, Chief Vision Officer for accessiBe and the author of the number one New York Times bestselling book, Thunder dog, the story of a blind man, his guide dog and the triumph of trust. Thanks for joining me on my podcast as we explore our own blinding fears of inclusion unacceptance and our resistance to change. We will discover the idea that no matter the situation, or the people we encounter, our own fears, and prejudices often are our strongest barriers to moving forward. The unstoppable mindset podcast is sponsored by accessiBe, that's a c c e s s i  capital B e. Visit www.accessibe.com to learn how you can make your website accessible for persons with disabilities. And to help make the internet fully inclusive by the year 2025. Glad you dropped by we're happy to meet you and to have you here with us.   Michael Hingson  01:21 Hi there you are listening to unstoppable mindset glad you're with us wherever you happen to be. Today we get to interview or chat with Shilpa Alimchandani and I got it right didn't I Shilpa   Michael Hingson  01:37 and Shilpa has formed her own company. She's worked with other companies. She's very much involved in the whole concept of diversity, equity and inclusion and we'll talk about that and and chat about that a little bit. But first Shilpa Welcome to unstoppable mindset.   Shilpa Alimchandani  01:56 Thank you, Michael. I'm really happy to be here.   Michael Hingson  01:58 Shilpa lives in Silver Spring, Maryland. I've been there before it gets colder in the winter a little bit colder than it does here in Victorville in Southern California. But we're up on what's called the high desert. So we get down close to zero. A lot of winters. And so we know the cold weather. We don't get the snow though. But we cope. Well. Thank you for joining us. Why don't you start if you would by telling us just a little bit about you growing up or anything like that things that you think we ought to know about you?   Shilpa Alimchandani  02:32 Okay, well, Thanks, Michael. Yeah, I live in Silver Spring, Maryland now. But this is not where I grew up. I grew up in the Midwest, in the suburbs of St. Louis, Missouri. I was actually born in India, but just a few months old, when I came here, to the US, so grew up in, you know, pretty suburban neighborhood in South Asian families, so kind of navigated between two worlds my world at home, and you know, which was very much a South Asian eating Indian food and speaking Hindi. And, you know, spending time with my family and our small community, in St. Louis, and then going to school and being part of a broader world that was really different than mine at home. And I'm the firstborn in my family. So as a first born of immigrant parents, you just kind of discovering everything for myself for the first time and not having much of a guidebook to help me along, but just sort of figuring it out as I went. And it was a mostly white neighborhood that I grew up in St. Louis, which was very segregated at the time, black and white. Not a lot of people who are anything in between, though, so kind of made my way in school. And I actually went to the University of Missouri Columbia for college. And it wasn't until I finished college that I moved out to the East Coast. And I've stayed here in the DC metro area since working in lots of different capacities in in nonprofit and higher education and government and the private sector, and now as an independent consultant for the fast past few years.   Michael Hingson  04:22 So where do you fall in the black and white scale?   Shilpa Alimchandani  04:25 I'm neither right so as someone as South Asian did not kind of fit into the dominant white majority culture that I was a part of growing up and did not fit into black American culture either because that's not my heritage. So it was a really interesting space to, to navigate to learn in, in a in a culture where race and skin color plays a big role in your identity development and the opposite. unities that you have, you know, it was something that I had to just sort of figure out where do I fit? You know, and what's what's my role in what appears to be kind of an unfair system that we're a part of. And then as I discovered how unfair things were, might the question became, well, how do I change that? What's my role? Being me and my brown skin? You know, to? to question the systems that are unfair? And to change things to be more equitable for everybody?   Michael Hingson  05:32 Do you think it's unfair all over the world? Do you think it's more or less unfair here? Or what?   Shilpa Alimchandani  05:39 Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, every place is unique. And so I don't think like, you know, necessarily, what we experienced in the United States is the same as it is, and other countries in this hemisphere or anywhere else in the world. And I think there are some global themes around power and identity that really can cut across cultures and countries, you know, human beings are used to kind of creating hierarchies, you know, and, you know, some people having more authority, more power than others, sometimes that's based on things like skin color, sometimes, you know, that's based on gender, sometimes that's based on caste, or that's based on tribe or some other ethnic identity, there are lots of different identities that are used to kind of implement that hierarchical system. But there are some things that are in common across all of them, right about how people in power retain their power, how people without power, learn to kind of accept their circumstances. And, you know, and kind of not necessarily pushback, because when they do, there are consequences to that. And so that it's like a reinforcing system that we get used to, and we sort of take for granted. Well, that's just like, how the how the world is, that's how life is. And it takes a lot of courage to question that and say, Well, no, well, it doesn't have to be that way. And we can make things more fair for everybody.   Michael Hingson  07:20 Do you think though, that here, we we see more of that than elsewhere in the world, or you think it just seems that way, because we're here,   Shilpa Alimchandani  07:30 and probably seems that way, because we're here, I mean, you, you know, you, you know, you're more in touch with what's happening, usually in your own environment. And I think, for the United States, with as much promise as it has, as a country with, you know, ideals around equality and fairness and justice, there's just a really difficult history that we haven't fully grappled with, that continues to impact people every day. And so it is a history of, you know, genocide of native peoples, it's a history of enslavement of African peoples. It's a history of patriarchy, where, you know, women haven't had the same access and rights, it's a history of ableism. You know, a topic, of course, that you know, very well in this podcast deals with in a really nuanced way, where people who don't fit into the norms of, you know, able bodied neurotypical folks, you know, are marginalized. And, and, you know, LGBTQ plus, folks are also marginalized. And that's not unique to the United States. But it is part of something that's part of our culture, that we need to acknowledge in order to change, kind of pretending like it's all in the past, and we don't really need to worry about that anymore, doesn't help us to make things better moving forward.   Michael Hingson  09:01 If there's a difference in the United States, it is that our country was founded on and we keep touting the fact that all of us are free, and all of us are equal, but in reality, it hasn't worked that way thus far.   Shilpa Alimchandani  09:20 Right? That's exactly right. And I think that it's often people from marginalized groups, who really believed most passionately, in that promise in those ideals and therefore want to push to make that a reality.   Michael Hingson  09:39 Yeah, and, and understandably so because we're the ones who tend not to have truly experienced it.   Shilpa Alimchandani  09:49 Right, exactly. And so, you know, it's fascinating to me to Michael on this topic of, you know, recognizing the you know, the inequities and the oppression that exists And what we want to do to change it is that you would think that if you understand or experience oppression or marginalization because of one aspect of your identity, that you would then also have empathy across lots of different experiences of marginalization, right. So for example, as a woman, I've experienced marginalization because of my gender. And so you would hope then that I would be empathetic to, you know, LGBTQ folks, or I wouldn't be also empathetic to people with disabilities. And I could translate my experience of marginalization and say, oh, I want to advocate for others who've experienced marginalization. But that is has not necessarily been the case, right? A lot of times, we kind of only focus on our own experience, the one that's familiar to us and have a harder time seeing how there are connections across lots of different identities. And there's power in us actually making those connections instead of, you know, operating in our silos.   Michael Hingson  11:11 Why is that? Why have we why have we not been able to take that leap? When we are part of one group, which clearly is marginalized, as opposed to other groups? Who are also marginalized, but we think essentially, we're really the the only one in town from the standpoint of not translating that.   Shilpa Alimchandani  11:35 Yeah, you know, I think it's, we are as human beings, much more aware of when we're kind of the outsider, and things are harder for us. And we've experienced adversity that we need to overcome. But when we're in that insider role, right, in the group that has more power, the dominant group, it's really easy to not pay attention to that to kind of forget it, to take it for granted. Right. So I can say that, you know, as, as a cisgender person, as a heterosexual person, I have at times in my life kind of taken for granted that I belong to those groups, because the world is sort of set up for me, I can date who want to want marry who I want, I don't have to worry about people looking at me, you know, strangely, when I'm with my partner, I don't have to think about having photographs of my family, you know, on display, these are not things I have to worry about, just because I'm part of those dominant identity groups, right. And when it comes to my experiences of marginalization as a South Asian person as a Hindu person living in the United States, I'm very, like, hyper aware of those, right, because that's where I have felt left out. That's where I have felt like I haven't been treated fairly. And so I think, because all about sort of like a complex mix of lots of identities, we tend to pay more attention to the ones where we experienced marginalization, and less attention to the ones where we are part of the dominant group.   Michael Hingson  13:13 But we don't translate that to other groups.   Shilpa Alimchandani  13:16 Yeah. Because, again, we can we have the capacity to do it. But uh, sure, more effort, right.   Michael Hingson  13:22 Sure. And, and it's all about, though, what, what we know, and what we feel. And we, we don't tend to take that leap. We're very capable of doing it. But for some reason, we don't recognize or don't want to recognize that we're part of maybe a bigger group of marginalized or unconsidered people. And I think that's probably really it, that we look at ourselves as well. We are, we are who we are, and we make our own way. But we, we don't have those other people's problems. And so we tend to ignore them.   Shilpa Alimchandani  14:07 Yeah, sometimes it makes us feel better about ourselves like, oh, well, you know, at least we don't have to deal with that. And I think when it when it comes to like race and ethnicity in the US context, there's been a conscious effort to divide people of color from different identity groups. We do have different lived experiences, I don't have the experience of someone being black of someone being Latinx of someone being indigenous, at the same time, there are some things in common across not being white, right? And what the the the exclusion and some of the disadvantages that come with that. But it's to the advantage of the group that's in power right? For other marginalized groups to be continuing to sort of fight with one another and not see what they haven't Common, because then that allows the majority group to maintain their power. Right? So you can keep fighting amongst yourselves, right and arguing about who was more oppressed than whom. But it, it, what it does is just allows the people who are in power to keep it. So it really is incumbent upon us to bridge some of those divides like you were talking about, like, why can't we extend and see how someone else has experienced marginalization in order to change things because it's that collective action is necessary.   Michael Hingson  15:33 Yeah. And that's really it, it's collective action. Because somehow, we need to recognize that the group in power isn't really jeopardized by other people, sharing power, or not being so marginalized, but rather is strengthens all of us. Mm hmm. That's what people tend to not perceive that they're, the whole concept of their power in numbers, there is power in numbers, really is just as applicable across the board. But we don't want to recognize that because we're too focused on the power, as opposed to the rest of it. Yeah. And that, that becomes pretty unfortunate. And, of course, dealing with all those other groups, and then you have people with disabilities, which is a very large minority, second only to women from a standpoint of what we call minorities, although they're more women than men, but then within disabilities, you have different kinds of disabilities that different people have, right. And that, that causes, I think, a lot of times another issue, because it is more difficult to get all of those groups sometimes to combine together to recognize the power and numbers of everyone working together. And everyone overcoming the prejudices is about for about their disabilities or toward other people and their disabilities.   Shilpa Alimchandani  17:06 Yeah, absolutely. And to even consider, you know, the, the intersections of our identities, right, so there are people with disabilities, many different types of disabilities, like you said, and then there are people with disabilities who are white, or people with disabilities, who are people of color, there are people with disabilities who are, you know, identify as cisgender women or cisgender men, or non binary or trans, right. And so when you kind of look at those combination of identities, it gets even more complex. And it also challenges us, right, it humbles us, I would say, to acknowledge that, wow, I may really be in touch with what it's what the experience of being a person with disability in this country, and but I don't have the experience, for example, of a person of color in this country, or a person of color with a disability in this country, and that those are different experiences. And to appreciate those differences, right? We don't need to erase those differences in order to understand each other,   Michael Hingson  18:13 while the experiences are different, what isn't different, oftentimes, is the fact that we do experience prejudice and discrimination. And we talk so much about diversity, that I think you've pointed out, we don't talk about the similarities. And we're, we talk well, we're talking about becoming more diverse, and that's great. But that becomes overwhelming at some point. And so how do we bring it back down to we're all part of the same thing? Really?   Shilpa Alimchandani  18:47 Well, I think, um, there's, there's a, there's kind of a journey that that we go on in understanding difference and understanding identity, you know, at first we may not be at, you know, totally aware of some of the differences around us, and then we might move to a place of feeling polarized around it, you know, that like us them dynamic, yep, there are differences, but we're better than you, you know, and that kind of a thing, and then we get to a place. And what I'm describing here, broadly, is the intercultural development continuum, a framework that's used a lot in the DEI space, you can come to a place of minimization, which is really focusing on commonalities, right. We are human, we have common lived experiences, we can focus on common values, and let's minimize the differences right? But that's not the end of the journey, because minimizing the differences is at times denying the reality of of people's different lived experiences. And it doesn't help us to really change things to make them more fair where they're not. So then we move to kind of accepting the differences not with value judgment, but just acknowledging them. And then ultimately adapting across those differences, I would take it a step further that not only are we bridging or adapting across the differences, but that we need to learn to be allies, right? So especially if we're in a position of being part of a dominant group, like as I am as an able bodied person, you know, what does it look like for me to be an ally, for people with disabilities, and that's a responsibility that I have, right. So if we minimize differences, and we just kind of stay in that place of let's just focus on what we have in common, we don't then have the opportunity to accept, adapt and ultimately become allies. And that's really the journey that we're on,   Michael Hingson  20:44 what I don't generally hear is not so much about what we have in common, or recognizing that we all can be allies, which I absolutely agree with and understand. But we don't get to the point of recognizing the vast number of similarities that we have. And we don't get to the point of recognizing that a lot of the so called differences are not anything other than what we create ourselves,   Shilpa Alimchandani  21:16 we do create differences. And we need to understand those differences in terms of systems, right, like entire systems in our society, and the way that our, you know, workplaces are set up and within the way, you know, physical spaces, as well as policies are developed. And those systems are not necessarily designed as fairly as they could be. And so that's when I think paying attention to differences is really important, and not just focusing on similarities, because the same system is impacting people differently, depending on what identity group they belong to. And we've got to be able to surface that in order to change it.   Michael Hingson  22:02 But we do need to recognize that a lot of that comes because of the system, as opposed to whether there are real differences, or there are differences that we create. Yeah, well, I mean,   Shilpa Alimchandani  22:13 humans create systems, right. And so we can agree design systems to, but what happens is a little bit like a fish in water kind of scenario, that we don't really recognize the water that we're swimming in, you know, we it really takes us having to leave the environment and look back at it to be able to say like, oh, that's what's going on. Right? Most of the time, we don't pay attention to those systems, we just operate within them without thinking about it.   Michael Hingson  22:43 And that's my point. And that's, that's exactly it. And so we sometimes somehow have to take a step back or a step up, maybe as you would describe it to get out of the water and look at the water, and see what we can do to make changes that would make it better. And that's the leap that I don't generally see us making as a race yet.   Shilpa Alimchandani  23:12 Yeah, they're, you know, they're definitely great examples of that, you know, in, in our history, and in other parts of the world as well, like when made, you know, when countries that had been colonized for a number of years, you know, finally get their freedom when, you know, there's real truth and reconciliation efforts after a war or a period of conflict. It is it is possible, it's something that has happened. And, and I think, you know, we're kind of in a moment in our culture, where people are asking a lot of these kinds of questions. What, what's not working in the status quo and the way things are, and what needs to shift this, the pandemic, has really brought those issues front and center, the movement for racial justice has has done the same. And I think it's it's actually an exciting opportunity and exciting moment to be like, oh, people are actually talking about systems now.   Michael Hingson  24:14 Yeah, it's, it's interesting. Henry Mayer wrote a book called all on fire, which is a biography of William Lloyd Garrison. Have you ever read that? I have not. Okay. So William Lloyd Garrison, you may or may not know was a very famous abolitionist in I think, the 1840s there was a reporter and he got very much involved in the abolishing slavery. And as I said, Henry Mayer was a biographer of his and wrote this book called all on fire and in the book, there is a section where, where Garrison wanted to bring into the fold, some women the Grimm case sisters, who were very much involved in women's suffrage. And he Garrison said to his people, please contact them, let's bring them in. And their response was, but they're not involved in this their field dealing with women's suffrage, and they're not interested in this. And Garrison said something very interesting, which was, it's all the same thing. He took the leap. And he said, It's all the same thing, whether it's suffrage, whether it's slavery, abolition, or whatever, Abolishment. It's all the same thing. And that's the leap, that we generally don't take any of us on any side.   Shilpa Alimchandani  25:39 Yeah, I don't know who to credit for this quote that I've heard many times. But the idea that none of us is free until all of us are free.   Michael Hingson  25:48 Yeah. Right. And interesting and interesting, quote, and true.   Shilpa Alimchandani  25:52 And that's really, you know, I had shared with you, Michael, that my, my practice is called mukti. And Mukti means liberation or freedom in Sanskrit. And that was really kind of what was behind, you know, like, I was thinking about, like, why do I do this work? What, what motivates me? What is this ultimately about? And to your point of, you know, these experiences, whether it be suffrage, or abolishing slavery, or whatever, having some really important things in common is that we want to be free, we, as humans want to be free. And there are a lot of things that get in our way. And so that kind of became the heart of my practice is like, what does it look like to work for that freedom?   Michael Hingson  26:38 Well, let's go back to you personally, and so on. So you grew up? I think you have, and that's a good thing. And so how did you get involved in all of this division, this business of Dei? And and what you do today? What What got you started down that path? And what did you do that got you to the point of starting this company?   Shilpa Alimchandani  27:02 Yeah, so you know, certainly growing up in the 80s, and 90s. In St. Louis, there really wasn't a dei field as such, it wasn't like one of those careers that you know, about and, and prepare for, like, you know, like being an engineer or a doctor or a teacher or something like that. So it was a kind of a winding indirect path to get to this place. I knew pretty early on that I cared about justice that I cared about people understanding each other and bridging differences. But I didn't know that could be my job. So at first I thought maybe I'll become a lawyer. And then you know, I could use like legal skills to fight for justice and things like that. I even took the LSAT and never applied to law school, I was like, I don't really want to be a lawyer. So I explored a bit I worked in nonprofit, and in higher ed, and began to learn that well, there really is kind of a in the late 90s, early 2000s, like a an a growing field, in educating people about diversity. And that was kind of new to me, I was excited about that. I wanted to learn more about it. And early on, it was kind of more focused on representation, right? We need to bring people together from different backgrounds, in workplaces, and schools, etc. And then that sort of evolved into, well, it's not just enough to bring people from different backgrounds together, you need to have an environment where people feel included, where they feel valued, right. So it kind of evolved from not just diversity to diversity and inclusion. And I think kind of the more recent iteration of the field is the E in diversity, equity and inclusion. And the equity piece being really looking at that systemic part, we were just talking about, how are our systems working for us? Where are their inequities built into those systems? How can those be corrected? So that we actually have a place where people from different backgrounds can feel included and valued and feel treated fairly, and paid fairly? For the work that they do? Right, so that's when all of those come together? Of course, there's additions to that as well. Some organizations add accessibility as an aide to that, you know, some include justice. So there's, this becomes a bit of an alphabet soup, but all with the this idea of differences, valuing differences and treating people fairly at the heart of, of this work.   Michael Hingson  29:50 And that's really what it's about. And as you point out, it's really about equity. I've noticed and I'm still very serious We maintain the whole concept of diversity is much less of a really good goal to seek. Traditionally, diversity leaves out disabilities. In fact, I interviewed someone a few weeks ago. And this person talked about different kinds of diverse groups, and listed a number of things and never once mentioned disabilities, and I asked him about that. I said, I'm not picking on you, but you didn't include disabilities. And he talked about social attitudes. And he said, well, it, it includes social attitudes in some way. And my point was, No, it doesn't really, because social attitudes are a different animal and don't have anything to do with dealing with disabilities to disabilities is a different kind of thing. Yeah. So it's, it's interesting how different people approach it. Now, this particular individual was a person who is involved with another, another minority group, but still, we have to face that. Yeah. And it makes for a very interesting situation, and it makes for a challenge in life.   Shilpa Alimchandani  31:16 Yeah, I mean, it's one of those places where, you know, I have privilege as someone who doesn't experience disabilities in my life on a daily basis. And I That means for me, like to be an ally, like, what we were talking about earlier, is that I need to educate myself, right? I need to look for those opportunities, where I feel like well, yeah, sure. This is easy and accessible for me, but it wouldn't be for our friends and colleagues and people who don't have the same abilities that I do. And what can we do to change that? Okay, that that's what ally ship looks like. And I know, it can be overwhelming, right? People say, oh, there's so many, you listed so many things under this umbrella of diversity? Like how can how can we possibly, you know, pay attention to all of it. And I actually don't think it's, it's too hard for us. I think, as human beings, we have this amazing capacity for empathy, we have this capacity to our minds are malleable, we can continue to learn and grow throughout our lives, we have to have the will to do it. Right. And, and put the effort in to do it. But it is possible.   Michael Hingson  32:27 It's interesting to look at and one of the things that I think I see, and this is from my perspective, as a as a blind person, or let's say a person with a disability, it's it's interesting how I think sis Thai society teaches that all the rest of us are better than persons with disabilities to a great degree am. And I think it's very systemic. And I think, to a very large degree, it does go across all sorts of different lines. But we teach people that I teach our children that disabilities make those people less in ways that it doesn't necessarily apply to other groups. Although the concept and the overall process is the same, it still comes down to, we're in power, we're better than they, but it does go across a lot of different lines. And when we teach people that disabilities are less, that's a problem that somehow we, as part of all this need to overcome.   Shilpa Alimchandani  33:37 Yeah. And you know, it's ultimately, Michael, to your point, it's dehumanizing. We're dehumanizing entire groups of people. And sometimes it's like, quote, unquote, well intentioned, but it's really more of a pity than it is an understanding of respect and empathy for someone else's experience. And nobody needs that. Right. Nobody wants to be felt sorry for, you know,   Michael Hingson  34:06 yeah. And I think that that probably is more true. When you're dealing with a person with a disability, then a lot of other groups, you won't feel sorry for them, you may distrust them, or whatever. But for disabilities, we feel sorry. And that promotes fear. Gosh, we sure wouldn't want to be like them.   Shilpa Alimchandani  34:29 Right? Because that's the worst thing that could happen, right? So it creates more of that division of, I'm not like you and I don't want to be like you, you know, right.   Michael Hingson  34:40 Right. On the other hand, disabilities is an equal opportunity, kind of a thing. Anyone can join us at any given time unexpectedly, or maybe expectedly. But to use a bad word expectedly I don't know that's not a word. But anyway, Yes. So we have to learn to speak. But still, it is something that anyone can experience. And we don't try to equalize. So it is a it is a challenge. But But again, let's look at you what what was your career like getting into this? So it wasn't a job that really existed as such. And then you kind of discovered that maybe it really was. And so you decided not to be a lawyer, and we won't talk about the the legitimacy or efficacy of not being a lawyer, although, oh, many lawyer jokes out there. But But what did you then do? Yeah,   Shilpa Alimchandani  35:45 so, you know, my early work was at a nonprofit that no longer exists, but it was the national multicultural Institute. And they were kind of doing diversity training for organizations, and like the World Bank, and educational institutions, and some nonprofits and, and then, so I discovered, like, Oh, this is becoming a growing thing that businesses organizations want education, around issues of diversity, and how they can work better together across difference. So that was really fascinating to me, I also got involved in cross cultural communication. So when I was teaching at American University, it was in the School of International Service, which has had as a requirement for any international studies major, to take a course on cross cultural communication, to recognize that, you know, depending on what culture or part of the world we're from, we really kind of think differently, communicate differently. And it doesn't mean that that thinking or that communication is good or bad, but it's different. And we really need to appreciate, you know, how some cultures are much more direct, and some are much less so right, very indirect, how some cultures were engaged in conflict, really, you know, emotionally and others are much more emotionally restrained, you know, and some are much more individualistic, and others being more collectivist. So I started really studying these issues, and realizing that there really was an opportunity to educate people about some of these cultural differences and identity differentials, and ultimately power differences that exist in our societies. So I worked internationally, I worked at the Peace Corps, and I've traveled with the Peace Corps to different countries, to train staff who worked for the US Peace Corps. I worked for the State Department, and I did leadership drug development work there to prepare Foreign Service officers before they go abroad and during their service on how to lead effectively in those global environments. And then, I decided to leave government after a while and, and pursue private sector. And there's a lot like in the private sector. Well, there are a lot of organizations that invest heavily in diversity, equity and inclusion, big training programs, a real focus on how to make their policies and procedures more equitable. So that was really interesting, you know, to get into that consulting space, first working for a firm called cook Roth, and then three years ago, I went out on my own and, and started my own practice. And I love the work it's it's challenging, you know, there's some people who are in it for the right reasons, and others, maybe not as much. So I'm learning a lot in this field, now 20 to 20 plus years into it, but but also feeling quite fulfilled in   Michael Hingson  38:46 the work that I do. So what does cook Ross do? Or what did they do?   Shilpa Alimchandani  38:50 They're a diversity, equity and inclusion consulting firm, that they work a lot with the fortune 500, even fortune 100 corporate sector. In my independent consulting practice, I'm doing less kind of corporate work and more work in the NGO sector, with smaller businesses, nonprofit organizations, and the like.   Michael Hingson  39:13 What made you decide to go out on your own?   Shilpa Alimchandani  39:16 Oh, I had thought about starting my own business many times, and really erred on the side of stability and a stable paycheck for so many years. Until finally, I had some supports in place, right, talking about systems. I had some supports in place to make it possible for me to go out on my own. I had a partner who had a steady job with health insurance for for us and for our two children. My parents moved closer to where we live. So I had some family support in the area. And then, you know, decided just to take the leap and have confidence in myself and what I could offer as a consultant as a facility cater to clients. And the vast majority of my work is through word of mouth, I really don't even do much marketing. And I'm very fortunate to be in that role, but it also just showed me like, oh, you might have maybe you could have done this sooner. But it took me a while to feel like I had the the support and the confidence to do that.   Michael Hingson  40:21 But even though you're on your own, do you still have a relationship? or do any work with cook Ross? Or do you still teach   Shilpa Alimchandani  40:29 other consulting firms, small consulting firm, so I subcontract for them. And if this I, in addition to my consulting, press practice, I, I became a certified coach, I went through a coaching program, and became an international coaching Federation, certified coach. So I work one on one with people, largely women of color leaders who are, you know, in periods of transition or growth in their lives and in their careers to help guide them through that process, and help them really tap into all of the strength that they have, and the wisdom that they have within themselves. So I have a lot of variety in the work that I do, which I really enjoy.   Michael Hingson  41:15 So you, you, you keep connections open? And that's always a good thing. Of course, indeed. So what kind of changes have you seen in the whole field of diversity, equity inclusion and such over the years?   Shilpa Alimchandani  41:32 You know, there have been a lot of changes, I think I mentioned early on, there was a lot of focus on representation, I think a big and then, you know, looking at the culture, and how can we be more inclusive, but even in that conversation about inclusive, Michael, there was a bit of teaching people to be like us, right, like, so there was still sort of a dominant majority white male, you know, able bodied, you know, cisgender, heterosexual, you know, culture. And we invite people who belong to other groups, marginalized identities to join us, but to kind of be like us, right, and then I saw shift will know, the point is not to make everybody act like the majority group, the point is to actually create a place where people with different experiences, different identities, can all thrive in the same environment. That means changing the environment, right? That means actually looking at some of those systems, looking at the culture, and saying, you know, if it's a culture of like, everybody goes out for happy hour after work, or they have important conversations on the golf course, or whatever, that that is really fundamentally excluding a lot of people from those informal ways that people hold power in the organization. So how do we create cultures and systems that are more fair for everyone, I think, now, especially post the murder of George Floyd in 2020. And a real reckoning with the history of racism in the United States, there's much more attention being paid to some of those systemic issues in with particular guard regard to race, but also other identity groups. And that's a big shift. There were a number of years when I worked in this space, where people were still, like, uncomfortable naming race, they would talk about diversity broadly, talk about all the different things that make us the rainbow people that we are, but not deal with some of the harder, stickier Messier subjects. And I think there's more of a willingness to do that now.   Michael Hingson  43:42 And they won't deal with the words. Yeah, go ahead.   Shilpa Alimchandani  43:45 Yeah, there's, there's more. So there's like a caveat to that. There's also a lot of people who say they want to do that more difficult and challenging work. But when confronted with it, actually retreat and say, Oh, no, I'm not comfortable to this. This is a bit too challenging, too threatening. It's making me really uncomfortable. And so there are organizations, there are leaders who have said one thing, right and publicly made announcements about how they're anti racist, or they're, you know, all about equity or whatever. But then that hasn't necessarily followed through in the action. So that's, that's something that's we're dealing with now, in the field. In some places, there's a openness, a recognition for some of those difficult topics and other places. It's really just on the surface. As soon as you go a little bit beneath the surface, you realize that the commitment is really not there.   Michael Hingson  44:44 Now you have me curious, so you've got you've got the company or the group that does go out on the golf course and make decisions or that goes out for lunch and has martinis and make decisions and There are reasons for it. The reasons being that you're going away from the company, you're going away from the environment. And you can think and you can have all sorts of rationales or reasons for doing it. But nevertheless, it happens. How do we change that? How do we address that issue? Do we, when we have people who were excluded, because they don't go out on the golf course? Do we create an environment for them to be able to go on the golf course? Or do we do something different? Or are we there yet?   Shilpa Alimchandani  45:31 Um, I think we're there. I think that first of all, you we need to recognize that some of those informal practices are in fact unfair. And then if you're wanting to let go of them and say, Well, what we liked about that was that it was somewhat informal, right? But are those the only informal spaces you can create? Right? Not necessarily. There are other ways that people can connect informally in an organizational context that aren't around, you know, alcohol or, or aren't around a particular sport, or aren't around a particular, you know, activity that necessarily excludes or that are always after hours. So this is something that women have really struggled with, is that, you know, if those important conversation side conversations are happening, not during work hours, and they're still to this day, women have more responsibilities at home with family than men do, then that's an automatic disadvantage. Like you you're not even in the room, you're not even there to be part of those exchanges. That doesn't just apply to women. But that's just that's an example. So how do we then think about leadership differently, how we develop people, what our decision making processes are, how we hold each other accountable for those decisions, it kind of comes down to your organizational values, and how you live those values in the way in which you lead and the way in which you engage in your work and your interactions with your colleagues. It's easy to say on paper much harder to practice those values. Why is that? Oh, well, you know, everybody likes to have on their website or on the wall in the conference room. Oh, we believe in integrity, we believe in inclusion, right? We believe in collaboration or whatever the values may be. But what does that actually mean? What does that look like? How do you make on how do I Shilpa behave in accordance with those values? Right? Question.   Michael Hingson  47:45 It gets back to Talk is cheap. Absolutely. Talk is really cheap. Talk is really cheap. It's easy   Shilpa Alimchandani  47:53 to make these pronouncements and to say the right thing. It's much harder to practice them. And so when I engage with clients, it's really looking at those organizations and those individuals that are interested in making some change. They're like, Okay, we know this is not going to happen overnight, it's not going to happen, because you did one workshop with us. And then we all went home, it's going to be it's going to happen over time. By articulating the behaviors. We want to practice building the skills to practice those behaviors, building the accountability for us to actually implement those behaviors and those changes in our policies, then we can actually create some long term change. That's not easy. It's not sexy, it's hard to work. And that's how you create a more diverse, equitable and inclusive organization.   Michael Hingson  48:47 And it is very uncomfortable, and it's what really causes a lot of the hatred. So why is it that people hate race differences so much, because they're different than us. They're not as good as we are. And although in reality, they can demonstrate that the hair is equal is we are whoever we are. The fact is that they're calling us on it. We don't like that we don't like change. And the reality is we need to learn to change.   Shilpa Alimchandani  49:16 Yeah, this whole idea, you know, we all think of ourselves as good people, right? So when someone points out some way in which I have exclude been exclusionary or discriminatory in my behavior, my first instinct is to defend myself, but I'm a good person, I would never try and hurt another or discriminate or exclude. But in fact, as a human being that operates in these systems that we are a part of, I haven't times excluded, I have at times been unfair in the way I've treated people and just and been discriminatory. And so it's important for me to be able to acknowledge that that I can be a good person, but part of being human is that I do have some of these checks. Challenges, then only can I change it and work to change some of the systems if we're going to live in denial like, Nope, we're good people, and therefore we can't hear any of this criticism. It's not possible for me to be unfair, unjust or discriminatory. And then how are we ever going to change?   Michael Hingson  50:16 Right? Which is, which is of course, the whole point, isn't it?   Shilpa Alimchandani  50:19 Yeah. But it's hard. It's a tough, but I really, I always come back to humility in this work, you. If you are to engage in a sincere way to build a more equitable and inclusive world for everyone across identity groups, you will be humbled time, and   Michael Hingson  50:37 it's hard because we haven't learned to do it. And also, many of us just really, ultimately don't have the desire to learn to do it. And that's what we have to change. What are some of the major mistakes that you've seen organizations make? I think you've referred to some of this already. But it's worth exploring a little more.   Shilpa Alimchandani  50:57 You know, one thing that we haven't talked about yet, but I often hear from clients who seek out my services, is that, oh, we really need to focus on recruitment, right, we just need to get more diverse leadership team, we need to do a better job of reaching out to, you know, XYZ group that's underrepresented in our organization. And they put a lot of effort into recruitment. And then what happens, you bring in people from all these different backgrounds that you said, weren't represented, and now they're there, but there hasn't been much emphasis on inclusion or equity. And you've created a revolving door. Because very soon, people from those marginalized identity groups discover this isn't a place where they really feel like they're valued, or it's not a place that set up to really support them to be successful. And they leave. And then those same organizations are like, well, we put all this money and time and effort into diversifying, what did we do wrong? So to that, my I, what I say time and time again, is we have to start with equity and inclusion. And then the diversity will come if you don't start with diversity and with recruitment, and then just with wishful thinking, hope that it all works out. Once everybody's together in that organization, quite often it doesn't.   Michael Hingson  52:18 It ultimately comes down to changing the mindset, which is really what doesn't happen. And diversity doesn't change the mindset. And I think that's something that conceptually inclusion can really help to do is to change the mindset if you're really going to look at what inclusion means. And that's why I've always loved to talk about and I have a speech called moving from diversity to inclusion, because people clearly have already changed diversity to the point where it doesn't necessarily represent everyone. But ultimately, all those people, I think, still try to do it. You can't say you're inclusive, unless you are, you can talk about being partially inclusive. But that doesn't mean a thing. Either you're inclusive where you're not, then that means changing a mindset.   Shilpa Alimchandani  53:01 It does mean changing a mindset. And that mindset allows you to change some of your practices, like it can be as simple as like, how do you design an agenda for a meeting? And how do you facilitate that meeting? And how do you actually include all of the voices of the people who are part of that group? A lot of just a thing about how many times people and organizations how much time people spend in meetings, and a lot of them are not particularly inclusive, like half the people are checked out. There are a few people who dominate the conversation. Right? And it seems it's such a waste. It is such a waste, because there are ideas that are not getting shared, there are conversations that are not being had, there are conflicts that are not getting resolved. Right? Because we're just used to doing things in the same way. If we can change that mindset, like you said, and, and also some of the practices, even small things like that will make a difference, right? People will start speaking up in a different way. Right? Well, dialogue shifts,   Michael Hingson  54:07 and that's what we really need to work toward is that dialogue, shift that mindset change, and that makes a big difference in in all that we're doing. Tell me a little bit more about your company about mu T and what it does and how people can learn about it.   Shilpa Alimchandani  54:24 Great. So yeah, Mookti the M O OK T I. Consulting is my organization. As I mentioned earlier, Mookti means liberation. And I have two parts to my practice. One is organizational training and consulting. So I provide and facilitate workshops and and Leadership Development Series for organizations on all kinds of dei related topics. From you know, interrupting bias to Um feedback on microaggressions to you know, a leading with an equity lens and using the system's lens to solve problems in your organization. And, and I really enjoy that work that organizational training and consulting work. The other part of my practice is coaching. And that is one on one with individuals, primarily, I focus on women of color leaders, because coaching remains a white dominant profession in the US. And there's a real opportunity for people of color to enter this field and a lot of clientele who are looking for coaches who understand not just their leadership journey, but also how their identities impact them every day. So being a woman and a woman of color in a leadership role in an organization is different than being a man or being a white man in particular. And so those of one on one coaching conversations that I have with my clients really can unlock their potential, can free them up to make decisions that are more aligned with their values and make choices in their career that are more fulfilling for them. So in all aspects of my work, I'm about you know, freeing people, from the systems of oppression that limit us, some of that work is organizational. And some of it is individual,   Michael Hingson  56:21 if people want to reach out and contact you and explore working with you, and so on. How do they do that?   Shilpa Alimchandani  56:29 Sure. So my website is the best way to learn more about me and my work and also to contact me. And the website is simply mookticonsulting.com   Michael Hingson  56:40 Have you written any books? Or are there other places where people can get resources that you've been involved in creating? Yes, I   Shilpa Alimchandani  56:49 mean, I did write a book number of years ago, communicating development across cultures, which is more focused on cross cultural communication in the international development field. So not as much on organizational dei work as I'm doing now. I'm quite active on LinkedIn and and do post my own articles on LinkedIn. So that's a good place to find me as well.   Michael Hingson  57:16 How can people find you? Can you? I assume, by your name, can you spell   Shilpa Alimchandani  57:20 Shilpa Alimchandani in LinkedIn, I'm the only one so you'll find me pretty easily there.   Michael Hingson  57:26 Why don't you spell that? If you would, please? Sure.   Shilpa Alimchandani  57:29 So Shilpa  S H I L, P as in Peter A. and Shilpa Alimchandani is A L I M as in Mary C H, A N as in Nancy, D as in David A. N as in Nancy. I. So it's a long one, but a phonetic name. In fact, on my website, I have a little button where you can click pronounce. And it tells you how to pronounce all, you know, with an audio clip of how you say the word book, The and also how you say my name Shilpa Alimchandani   Michael Hingson  58:02 Well, I hope people will reach out. Because I think you're you're talking about a lot of very valuable things. And I think we really need to look at inclusion and really create a new mindset. As I said, I have a speech called moving from diversity to inclusion. In fact, it's the second episode on our podcast. So if you haven't washed, I hope you'll go see it. There's my plug. And then my fourth episode is a speech that Dr. Jacobus tenBroek gave Dr. Tim brick was the founder of the National Federation of the Blind. And one of the foremost constitutional law scholars in the speech he gave at the 1956 convention, the National Federation of the Blind has called within the grace of God, and especially the last two paragraphs of that speech, I love but it's a great speech that I think, whether you're talking about blindness or any other kind of group, it applies. And he was definitely a visionary in the field, and was a was a great thinker about it. So that again, that's episode four, I hope that you and other people, if you haven't listened to it will go out and listen to   Shilpa Alimchandani  59:11 know Michael, I did listen to that, upon your recommendation that episode four and that speech was really moving and inspiring, and what I would say more than anything else, I felt that it was empowering. It was so empowering, and thank you for recommending that.   Michael Hingson  59:27 And he thought that he was being gentle with people in talking about discriminations and so on. In later years, he delivered another speech in 1967. Called are we up to the challenge? And he thought that he was much more forceful in that he started the speech by saying, and again, it's about blind people, but it could it goes across the board. He said mind people have the right to live in the world, which is interesting, but I still think is 1956 speeches was says best and I think there are others who agree with that.   Shilpa Alimchandani  1:00:02 Well, it's been such a pleasure speaking with you, Michael, thank you so much for inviting me on to the podcast.   Michael Hingson  1:00:07 Well, I am glad that you came and I hope that you will come back again and definitely anytime you have more insights or whatever or there's any way that we can be a resource for you, and I'm sure others will feel the same way. Please let us know. But Shilpa  I really appreciate you coming on and all of you I appreciate you listening today. So, we hope that you will give us a five star rating and that you will reach out. Let me know what you think of what we had to discuss. I love your thoughts. All of the information will be in our show notes, including how to spell Shilpa his name and we hope that you will let us know your thoughts. So once more Shilpa Thank you for listening, at least you declare you listen to thank you for being here. Thanks. Thank you all and we'll see you next time on unstoppable mindset.   Michael Hingson  1:01:00   You have been listening to the Unstoppable Mindset podcast. Thanks for dropping by. I hope that you'll join us again next week, and in future weeks for upcoming episodes. To subscribe to our podcast and to learn about upcoming episodes, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com slash podcast. Michael Hingson is spelled m i c h a e l h i n g s o n. While you're on the site., please use the form there to recommend people who we ought to interview in upcoming editions of the show. And also, we ask you and urge you to invite your friends to join us in the future. If you know of any one or any organization needing a speaker for an event, please email me at speaker at Michael hingson.com. I appreciate it very much. To learn more about the concept of blinded by fear, please visit www dot Michael hingson.com forward slash blinded by fear and while you're there, feel free to pick up a copy of my free eBook entitled blinded by fear. The unstoppable mindset podcast is provided by access cast an initiative of accessiBe and is sponsored by accessiBe. Please visit www.accessibe.com. accessiBe is spelled a c c e s s i b e. There you can learn all about how you can make your website inclusive for all persons with disabilities and how you can help make the internet fully inclusive by 2025. Thanks again for listening. Please come back and visit us again next week.

Det kom ett snöoväder i år igen, och som vanligt blev allt kaos i huvudstaden. Inställda bussar, bilar som kör av vägen och trottoarer täckta med snömodd. Och frågan alla stockholmare ställer sig: Var är plogbilarna? På en kvart får du veta varför det alltid blir kaos när den första snön kommer i Stockholm och om det verkligen behöver vara så. Med Hanna Törnquist och Jan Majlard, reportrar på SvD.

Elon Musk's recent acquisition of Twitter has users of the social media platform bracing for the app's downfall. In St. Louis, activists and journalists that have been heavy users of Twitter since the police shooting death of Michael Brown, Jr. are concerned about the future of the app and the potential loss of how everyday people could lose power in social movements. Action St. Louis co-founder and executive director Kayla Reed and New York Times bestselling author Sarah Kendzior discuss how Twitter has shaped the narrative about St. Louis, the Ferguson uprising, and the ways social media impacts policy.

Three tons of wax. A 4-story office building made almost entirely of wood. And putting CO2 to work instead of letting it heat up the planet: Scientists and engineers across the globe are harnessing unlikely materials to cut greenhouse gas emissions. Today's show looks at how a zero-emissions office building combines integrated solar panels, heat pumps and a huge vat of wax to heat and power the structure, with enough left over to sell. We'll also look at highly efficient heat pumps using CO2 as the stuff inside that makes it work. They're spreading worldwide, and can be found everywhere from inside your Volkswagen ID electric car to the Large Hadron Collider. And also — at a hotel in Hell, Norway, where electricity use was cut by 70 per cent — without making a pact with the devil!Our guests on today's show are Tore Kvande and Armin Hafner.There's a video on Professor Hafner's work at CERN here, and more about CoolCERN, here.Find a related podcast episode here.Read more:Nocente, A, Time, B, Mathisen, H.M, Kvande, T & Gustavsen, A: The ZEB Laboratory: the development of a research tool for future climate adapted zero emission buildings. 8th International Building Physics Conference. J. Phys.: Conf. Ser. 2021, Vol 2069, Article no. 012109Sevault A., Næss E., Active latent heat storage using biowax in a central heating system of a ZEB living lab; Proc. of the 14th IIR-Gustav Lorentzen Conf. on Natural Refrigerants - GL2020. Internat. Inst. of Refrig. 2020 ISBN 978-2-36215-040-1. s.493-498, doi.org/10.18462/iir.gl.2020.1146 (Published online 7 December 2020)Pardiñas, Ángel Á.; Jokiel, Michael; Schlemminger, Christian; Selvnes, Håkon; Hafner, Armin. (2021) Modeling of a CO2‐based integrated refrigeration system for supermarkets. Energies. vol. 14:6926 (21).Barroca, Pierre, Armin Hafner, Bart Verlaat, Paolo Petagna, Wojciech Hulek, Lukasz Zwalinski, Pierre Hanf, Michele Battistin, Loic Davoine, and Daniella Teixeira. 2021. "An Ultra-Low Temperature Transcritical R744 Refrigeration System for Future Detectors at CERN LHC" Applied Sciences 11, no. 16: 7399. https://doi.org/10.3390/app11167399 Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Intro: Sometimes the little guy just doesn't cut it.Let Me Run This By You: Time's a wastin' - giddyup, beggars and choosers.Interview: We talk to star of Parks and Recreation, Easter Sunday, and Barry - Rodney To about Chicago, Marquette University, Lane Tech,  getting discovered while pursuing a Chemistry degree, The Blues Brothers, Dürrenmatt's The Physicists, playing children well into adulthood, interning at Milwaukee Rep, Lifeline Theatre, Steppenwolf, doing live industrials for Arthur Anderson, Asian American actors and their representation in the media, IAMA Theatre Company, Kate Burton, and faking a Singaporean accent.FULL TRANSCRIPT (UNEDITED):1 (8s):I'm Jen Bosworth RAMIREZ2 (10s):And I'm Gina Pulice.1 (11s):We went to theater school together. We survived it, but we didn't quite understand2 (15s):It. 20 years later, we're digging deep talking to our guests about their experiences and trying to make sense of it all.1 (21s):We survived theater school and you will too. Are we famous yet?2 (30s):How's your, how's your eighties decor going for your1 (35s):New house? Okay, well we closed yesterday. Well,2 (39s):Congratulations.1 (40s):Thank you. House buying is so weird. Like we close, we funded yesterday, but we can't record till today because my lender like totally dropped the ball. So like, here's the thing. Sometimes when you wanna support like a small, I mean small, I don't know, like a small bank, like I really liked the guy who is the mortgage guy and he has his own bank and all these things. I don't even, how know how this shit works. It's like, but anyway, they were so like, it was a real debacle. It was a real, real Shannon situation about how they, anyway, my money was in the bank in escrow on Friday.1 (1m 20s):Their money that they're lending us, which we're paying in fucking fuck load of interest on is they couldn't get it together. And I was like, Oh no.2 (1m 29s):They're like, We have to look through the couch cushions,1 (1m 31s):Right? That's what it felt like, Gina. It felt like these motherfuckers were like, Oh shit, we didn't actually think this was gonna happen or something. And so I talked to escrow, my friend Fran and escrow, you know, I make friends with the, with the older ladies and, and she was like, I don't wanna talk bad about your lender, but like, whoa. And I was like, Fran, Fran, I had to really lay down the law yesterday and I needed my office mate, Eileen to be witness to when I did because I didn't really wanna get too crazy, but I also needed to get a little crazy. And I was like, Listen, what you're asking for, and it was true, does not exist. They needed one. It was, it was like being in the, in the show severance mixed with the show succession, mixed with, it was like all the shows where you're just like, No, no, what you're asking for doesn't exist and you wanna document to look a certain way.1 (2m 25s):And Chase Bank doesn't do a document that way. And she's like, Well she said, I don't CH bank at Chase, so I don't know. And I said, Listen, I don't care where you bank ma'am, I don't care. But this is Chase Bank. It happens to be a very popular bank. So I'm assuming other people have checking accounts that you deal with at Chase. What I'm telling, she wanted me to get up and go to Chase Bank in person and get a printout of a certain statement period with an http on the bottom. She didn't know what she was talking about. She didn't know what she was talking about. And she was like, 18, 18. And I said, Oh ma'am, if you could get this loan funded in the next, cuz we have to do it by 11, that would be really, really dope.1 (3m 6s):I'm gonna hang up now before I say something very bad. And then I hung up.2 (3m 10s):Right, Right. Yeah. Oh my God, I know. It's the worst kind of help. And regarding like wanting to support smaller businesses, I what, that is such a horrible sadness. There's, there's no sadness. Like the sadness of really investing in the little guy and having it. That was my experience. My big experience with that was going, having a midwife, you know, with my first child. And I really, I was in that whole thing of that, that time was like, oh, birth is too medicalized. And you know, even though my husband was a doctor, like fuck the fuck the medical establishment we're just, but but didn't wanna, like, I didn't wanna go, as my daughter would say, I didn't wanna be one of those people who, what did she say?2 (3m 52s):You know, one of those people who carry rocks to make them feel better.1 (3m 57s):That's amazing. Super.2 (4m 0s):So I didn't wanna go so far as to be one of those rock carrying people to have the birth at my house, but at the same time I really wanted to have this midwife and then there was a problem and she wasn't equipped to deal with it. And it was,1 (4m 11s):I was there,2 (4m 13s):Fyi. Yes, you were1 (4m 15s):The first one, right? For your first one.2 (4m 16s):The first one.1 (4m 18s):Here's the thing you're talking about this, I don't even remember her ass. What I, she, I don't remember nothing about her. If you had told me you didn't have one, I'd be like, Yeah, you didn't have one. I remember the problem and I remember them having to get the big, the big doctor and I remember a lot of blood and I remember thinking, Oh thank God there's this doctor they got from down the hall to come or wherever the hell they were and take care of this problem because this gene is gonna bleed out right here. And none of us know what to do.2 (4m 50s):Yes. I will never forget the look on your face. You and Erin looking at each other trying to do that thing where you're like, It's fine, it's fine. But you're such a bad liar that, that I could, I just took one look at you. I'm like, Oh my God, I'm gonna fucking bleed out right here. And Aaron's going, No, no, no, it's cool, it's cool, it's cool. And then of course he was born on July 25th and all residents start their residency on July 1st. So you know, you really don't wanna have a baby or have surgery in July cuz you're getting at a teaching hospital cuz you're getting a lot of residents. And this woman comes in as I'm bleeding and everything is going crazy and I haven't even had a chance to hold my baby yet. And she comes up to me and she says, Oh cuz the, the midwife ran out of lidocaine. There was no lidocaine.2 (5m 30s):That's right. They were trying to sew me up without lidocaine. And so this nurse comes in, she puts her hand on my shoulder, she says, Hi, I'm Dr. Woo and I'm, and I said, Dr. W do you have any lidocaine? I need some lidocaine stat right up in there. Gimme some lidocaine baby. And she had to call her boss. You know who I could tell when he came in, of course he was a man and I could tell when he came in, he looks at my midwife and is like, Oh, this is what you did here. I see we have to come in and clean up. But sometimes that's the case. Sometimes it's really just true that, you know, it's that the, that the bigger kind of like more corporate option is better cuz it just works better.1 (6m 8s):Well, and they've done this before, like there is, they've done the job before in a way, and they've seen the problems. They know how to troubleshoot in a way because they just have the fucking experience. Now you could say that getting that experience is like super fucked up and patriarchal and, and all the isms, it's, and you'd be right, but when you are bleeding to death or when you know you are in a big financial negotiation that could go south at any moment and lead to not having a ho like a all feeling lost. You want someone who knows how to fucking troubleshoot, dude. Like, come on. And I, you know, and it is sad, it's heartbreaking when you like, fuck man.1 (6m 50s):I really wanted this, like Dr. Altman always said, and I have an update on Dr. Altman, my favorite psychiatrist mentor of mine. But he always said like, well when I was going through med titration, when they put this dingling at Highland Park Hospital, who tried her best but put me on lithium thinking I was bipolar and then I was and all the meds, right? All the meds. And he's like, well they could've worked2 (7m 15s):It could've worked it1 (7m 17s):All's. And I was like, you are right. So like, it could've worked, it could've gone differently, but it just didn't. So it's like, yeah, it's better to look at it like that because, or else it's just infuriating that it didn't work in the first place, Right? Like, you're like, well fucker, Well they tried.2 (7m 35s):Yeah. I use that all the time that it could have worked. Things that I got through you from Dr. Altman, you know, my husband is having like some major, you know, growth moments. Like come like those moments where all the puzzle pieces become clear and you go, Okay, my childhood isn't what I thought it was and this person has got this and this person has got that. Yes. You know? And, and whenever he's doing the thing that we all do, which is like lamenting the life, the family he wish he had had, I always say like, well, as Dr. Almond says, it could have worked. Yes, these parents could have been just fine for you if you were a different person, but you're you.2 (8m 16s):And so, and they're them and it wasn't a good match. And like that happens sometimes.1 (8m 21s):And I think it's really good with kids maybe too. Cause it's like, listen, like, like I say to my niece, like it could, this could have been whatever it is the thing or my nephew too that worked and like that you loved volleyball or that you loved this. Like you are just looking, and I think it's all about titration, right? Like it's all about figuring out where we fit in, where we belong, where we don't. And it's a fucking process, which is what he was saying and like, and that you don't, we don't get it right the first time. Even in medicine, even in it's maybe especially in medicine, maybe in especially in relationships, like, so it, it also opens the door for like, possibility, right? That like, it's an experiment and like, we don't know, even doctors don't know, Hey, run this by you, Miles did of course.1 (9m 14s):And done. What about you? What about you?2 (9m 17s):I'm gonna do it after this, after we're done recording today, I'm gonna go over and I always like to take one of my kids so they, you know, see that this is the process and you have to do it and it's everybody's responsibilities to do it. That doesn't mean that I didn't get all angry at my own party this week. You know, my mom has a great expression. I think it's her expression. She says it. In any case, all politics is local, right? Like where it really, where the really meets the road is what's happening in your backyard. And like, I have a lot of problems with my town,1 (9m 52s):So Right.2 (9m 53s):They don't wanna have, you know, they voted down this measure to put a a, like a sober living place, wanted to take up residence here. Couldn't think of a greater idea. Nobody wanted it. You know, it's a lot of nis not in my backyarders over here. And it really drives me crazy. And in the, in the paper this week, there was a big scandal because there's this particular like committee in our town, Okay. That was in charge of, there was gonna be this, what is it, like a prize maybe or an honor or not a scholarship Okay. But something where they were gonna have to name it.2 (10m 33s):Okay. And they were, you know, really looking around for names. They were trying to think up what names would be appropriate. And somebody put forward the name of this person who is already kind of a named figure in our town. Like, we had this beautiful fountain, it's named after him. He was, he was a somewhat of a big guy, you know, he was an architect, whatever. Sure. So this name gets put forward in this woman who's on this committee says, I don't think this is a great time to name something after an old white man. Now, to me couldn't be a more reasonable thing in the world to say everybody's calling for her resignation. And these, you know, the thing that I hate the most about, not just conservatives, but it seems like it's especially conservatives.2 (11m 20s):I hate this saying. And I remember, I think I've said this before on the podcast, I remember hearing some black activists saying a lot of white, you know, a lot of racism perpetrated by white people is like founded on pretending. Pretending like you don't see color pretending like, you know, saying things like, Oh, well why would you have had that experience, you know, walking down our street at night? Like, or why would you have had that difficulty getting that job? I don't understand. And pretending like they don't know that this person just got1 (11m 51s):That job because of2 (11m 52s):The color biscuit and that kind kind of a thing. So of course the way that people are coming down on this woman is to say, Well, I don't know about you, but I was taught that we have to look beyond race and we have to recognize the person before the color of their skin. And if you can't be, you know, representing the needs of white men, then I just don't really think that you, there's a place on this council. And of course, you know, somebody who I know and have in the past really respected was quoted in this article as saying, Oh, somebody who considers himself like a staunch liberal. Yeah. I mean, I just really can't think of any people of note from our town who weren't white men.2 (12m 34s):Sure. And this motherfucker let himself be quoted in our newspaper as saying this. Now maybe he feels fine about it. Maybe he doesn't think there's anything wrong with it. But I I I think it's completely, completely disgusting. Of course. So then I went and I just did this research of like all the people who have lived in our town historically, they're not just white men. We, there's other people to choose from. Needless1 (12m 58s):To say. Yeah. Well also, like, it's so interesting. I mean, it's just that that quote just is so problematic on so many levels. It like goes so deep. But like the other thing is like, maybe they miss, the only thing I can think of is that dude, did they miss the second half of your quote? Which was, and that's a problem. Like, like if, if you can't, if you can't finish that quote with, you know, I can't really think of like anyone of note in our being or anyone being recognized in our town in this way that wasn't a white dude and that's really crazy. We should really reevaluate how we're doing things here.1 (13m 39s):Period. You're so2 (13m 41s):To offer, you're so, you're so sweet to offer him this benefit of the doubt. Of course I don't offer that to him because this is a person who, you know, there's been a few people in my life who I've had the opportunity to, you know, know what they say privately and then know what they say publicly. Right? And I, and I know this, you know, I know this person personally. And no, it doesn't surprise me at all that, that that would've been the entirety of the quote. It would've been taken out of context. Now it might have been, and I don't know, and I'm not, I'm not gonna call him up to ask him, but you know, at a minimum you go on the local Facebook page and say, I was misquoting.1 (14m 20s):No, no, yeah. Chances are that this, this person just said this. And actually the true crime is not realizing if, if, if that's the case, that they, that that statement is problematic. So that's really fucked up. And also, like, think of all the native people that were on that land, on our land. Like, you're gonna tell me that just because you haven't done, they haven't done the research. They don't think that a native person from the northeast did something of greatness. Shut up, man. Excellent. Before it was rich.2 (14m 56s):Excellent point, Excellent point. Maybe when I write to my letter to the editor, maybe I'll quote you on that because Yeah, yeah. It's like, it's so, it's just, and I'm, by the way, I'm, I have been, I'm sure I'm still am guilty of the same thing too, of just being the laziness of like, well, I don't know, we'd love to, you know, hire a person of color, but none have applied. I mean, I have definitely said things like that and I just understand differently now I understand. No, no, no, they're not gonna be at the top of the pile of resumes that you're gonna get because historically these people haven't felt like there's a place for them at your table. So what you have to do is go above and beyond and say, we are specifically recruiting people of color for this position. I understand.1 (15m 35s):And how about even like, do some research online and find out who those people are and try to like, hire them away from wherever they are to and make them a great offer. You know what I mean? Like all those things. Well,2 (15m 48s):This experience did cause me to go on my little Wikipedia and look up, you know, people who have lived here and I was really like, surprised to learn how many people have known. Now it's true to say that, you know, when, when you're just looking up a list of famous people, it is gonna mostly be white men because that's who mostly, you know, sort of, she made, made history, made the news, whatever. But yeah, one of the very first things that come up, comes up when you look it up my town on Wikipedia, is that the fact that this was the Ramapo tribe that lived here. You know, this is who we took the land away from. I was also surprised to that.1 (16m 29s):I've never,2 (16m 30s):Yeah, Yeah. It was also interesting to learn, supposedly according to this, how many people of live here currently, including people like Harvey Firestein, who I have, I've never seen around town, but God I would really love to. And like some other, you know, sort of famous people. But anyway, That's1 (16m 50s):So cool.2 (16m 51s):Yeah. So, so I will be voting after this and I really, I don't have a great feeling about the election, but I'm, you know, I'm just like, what can you do? You can just sort of go forward and, you know, stick to your values. Yeah. I mean,1 (17m 7s):The thing is, stick to your values, move forward. And like my aunt, happy birthday, Tia, it's her birthday today, and she is like super depressed that, you know, she, she said, what she says is like, fascism is really, today is the day that we really something about fascism, it's like really dire and like really, Okay. So my, it's so interesting that I think boomers feel really bad because they had it so good, even though it wasn't really good, there was an illusion of goodness. Right? So I, I am depressed. But here's the thing, and I was, I was gonna bring this up to you.1 (17m 47s):It's like I, I had an experience last night where I went to this theater and saw the small theater, which I really wanna do my solo show in which is this famous theater called The Hayworth, which is, they show silent movies and all, but there's now it's like an improv sort of venue and, and it's really cute and throwbacky. But anyway, I went there and I just was thinking like, as I was watching these performers, like, oh, it is not even that, Like, it's literally that I spent 45 years thinking that I was worse than everybody else, right? And so now that I don't really think that, I actually don't have that much time left to accomplish what I would like to accomplish. So I, I spent all this time feeling like I couldn't do what she's doing.1 (18m 29s):I can't do what he's doing, can't do what theirs doing. They're, they are doing because I'm not good enough. Like literally. And now I'm like, Oh my God, I'm good enough. I have things to say. I really wanna leave a legacy. And literally the clock is ticking. Now, I'm not saying I'm running around like a nut, but what I'm saying is like, I, I, I do feel that I literally don't have the time left to participate in half-assed measures of art or whatever we're gonna do. We gotta make it purposeful because I w i, I spent all this time getting ready 45 years to not hate myself. And now the clock is ticking, I donate myself and there are things to do.1 (19m 13s):That's literally how I feel. So then when I see art or something where I'm like, Why are you using your platform this way? What are you talking about? What are you saying? Oh no, I can't, I even now I know why people leave movies early, plays early if it is, and some, for me anyway, like some people probably just assholes and like the, the person on stage doesn't look cute and they're out or whatever, but, or they're having panic attacks like I used to and I have to leave. But like, mostly I understand where it's like this is wasting my, my time, time I could be using to sort of plant seeds that may do something to be of service.1 (19m 53s):So I'm gonna jet and good luck to you. But yeah, it's the first, I just really feel like time is of the essence. And I always thought that was such a stupid thing that old people said, which was, you know, time is our most precious commodity. And I was always like, that is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. And now I'm like, oh shit. Yeah, it's really true Dude.2 (20m 15s):Yeah. Yeah. I actually had an experience some that I relate to with that, which is that, you know, I, I volunteered to be part of this festival of one act and you know, the thing we were supposed to do is read all of the submissions and then pick our top three. And then they were gonna do this rank order thing where they're attempting to put each director with one of their top three choices. Well, I read, it was like 10 plays I read them and I, I didn't have three, three ch choices. There was only one play that I felt frankly was worth my time.2 (20m 56s):And I felt really uncomfortable about having that feeling. And I was doing all of the like, who do you think you are? And you know, it's, you haven't directed something in three years and beggars can't be choosers in the whole thing. And I just thought, you know, I know what I'm gonna do if I don't stand up for whatever it is I think I can do here is I'm gonna resent the thing that I get, you know, pitted with and then I'm gonna do something self-destructive or I'm gonna kind of like blow up the relationship and I don't wanna do that. So I spend a lot of time thinking about how I was gonna write this email back saying basically like, I don't have three choices. I only have one choice. And I understand if you don't want to give that to me that this, I might not be a good fit for you.2 (21m 37s):You know? But I really, I really kind of sweated over it because when you don't, you know, when you're a very, if I was an extremely established theater director, you know, I wouldn't have thought twice about it. But I'm not, I'm trying to be established here and I, you know, so my, my, my go-to has always been well having opinions and choices and stuff like that is for people who, you know, have more than you do or have more to offer than you do. And it doesn't always work out that when you kind of say, This is me and take me or leave me. It doesn't always work out. But in this case it doesn't. They gave me my first choice. And so I'm, I'm happy about that, but there's a lot.2 (22m 18s):Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, there's a lot that just goes into the, it's all just work I have to do on myself. Like, I have this, a way of thinking about things is like, I have to do this work with this other person or I have to convince them why it has nothing to do with that. It's just that I have to do this.1 (22m 34s):Well that's what I'm realizing, like Gina, Absolutely. And good for you for like, coming at it from a place of like, okay, like this might not work, but I have to do it to see and put it out there and it may not work and they may say, go fuck yourself. But the alternative one is resentment, but also is like, hmm, not doing anybody else any favors either. If you aren't saying like, I actually don't have three choices here, I'm not gonna do justice. And I also, it brings me to my other thing, which I thought was so full of shit, which is so true. It's like most things are just not, it's about not being a right fit. It's not about you're bad and I'm good, I'm good and you're bad.1 (23m 15s):It's like, this is not a good match. And I, I think it just takes what it takes to learn that it is a not, it's about a matching situation. So like you knew that like those other two wouldn't be good matches and you wouldn't do a service to them or yourself. And it's not, And also like this thing about beggars can't be choosers. I fucking think it's so dumb because like most of us are beggars all the time and, and we, we settle for garbage. And it doesn't, like, I feel like we can, like beggars should be more choosy. And I also feel like, I'm not saying not be humble, but like, fuck you if you take away our choices, like we have to have choices.1 (23m 57s):That's the thing. It's like beggars have choices, whatever you call a beggar, we still have choices. Like how we're gonna interact and how and how we're gonna send emails and shit. I'm just like,2 (24m 9s):Yeah. Plus that whole phrase is so like, in a way rooted in this kind of like terrible supremacy structure that we're trying to fight against, which is like, we wanna tell, of course we wanna tell beggars that they can't be choosers cuz we just, we don't wanna think about them as people who have the same agency in life as we do.1 (24m 25s):Sure. And now I've started saying to people when I have this conversation about like, about unhoused, people like having tent encampments and I get it, like, you're going to school, you're walking your kid to Montessori and there's a fucking tent encampment in your front yard. You did not pay for that. You did not sign up for that. You are, I get it. And also my question is, what are we gonna do when the tents outnumber the people in homes? Because then it's a real fucking problem. So like, how are we gonna do that? You think it's uncomfortable? I think it's uncomfortable to walk by a tent encampment as I'm on my way to a coffee date with someone or whatever.1 (25m 8s):That's uncomfortable. But what are we gonna do when, like in India, the, the quote slums or whatever people, you know, whatever people choose to call it, outnumber the goddamn people in the towers. Then we, then it's gonna be a different problem.2 (25m 35s):Today on the podcast, we were talking to Rodney Toe. Rodney is an actor, you know him from Parks and Recreation, Barry good girls Rosewood. He was in a film this summer called Easter Sunday. Anyway, he's a delight. He's also a professor of theater at USC and he's charming and wonderful and we know you are going to love listening to him as much as we loved talking to him. So please enjoy our conversation with Rodney Toe.3 (26m 8s):Can you hear me? Can you hear me okay?2 (26m 11s):Yes, you sound great. You sound1 (26m 13s):Happy. No echo. You have beautiful art behind you. We can't ask for a2 (26m 17s):Better Easter Sunday. We were just talking about Easter Sunday, so we're gonna have to ask you Oh sure about it, Beth. But first I have to say congratulations, Rodney tell you survive theater school.3 (26m 28s):Oh, thank you. Yes, I did. I sure did. Was2 (26m 31s):It usc? Did you go to3 (26m 32s):Usc? No, I, I'm a professor. I'm currently a professor at usc. So1 (26m 36s):We just assumed you went there, but where did you go3 (26m 38s):To No, no, no, no, no. I, that, that came about like in a roundabout way, but no, I, I totally, I went, went to Marquette University. Oh, in Milwaukee?1 (26m 46s):In Milwaukee. Oh my gosh. Yeah. So3 (26m 48s):Everybody's reaction, everybody's reactions like, well1 (26m 53s):I actually love Mil, I'm from Chicago and Evanston you do and then you are,3 (26m 58s):Yeah, born and raised north side. My family's still there. What1 (27m 1s):The hell? How did I not know this? Yeah, I'm from Evanston, but lived in Rogers Park and went to, we went to DePaul.3 (27m 7s):Well I hear the park. Yes, yes. Born and raised. My family's still there. I am a Chicago, I'm an undying Chicago and through and through. Yeah.1 (27m 15s):Wait a minute. So, so, okay, okay, okay. So you grew up on the north, you grew up in, on the north side.3 (27m 20s):Yeah, I grew up in, I, I grew up and I went to Lane Tech. Oh1 (27m 24s):My gosh, that's where my niece goes right this very minute. She goes, Yeah,3 (27m 28s):It's1 (27m 28s):Quite the school. I dunno how it was when you went, but it went through a hard time and now it's like one of these3 (27m 34s):Go, I mean when I went it was, it was still considered a magnet school. And I I, you know, I think like in like it went maybe through a period of like, sort of like shifting, but then it's like now it's an incredible school. I'm September 17th is apparently Rodney to day at Lane 10. No, Yeah, it just happened. I mean it's, it's silly. It's Easter significance. No, cause of Easter Sunday they did like a bunch of, you know, I do a lot of advocacy for the Asian American for Asian-American representation. So sort like all together1 (28m 4s):That movie had broke so many, broke so many barriers and was, I mean it was a phenomenal, and also I just feel like it's so obviously so needed. Duh. When people say like, more representation is needed, I'm like, okay, no shit Sherlock. But it's true. It bears repeat again. Cause it still is true that we need more representation. But I am fascinated. Ok, so you went to Lane Tech and were you like, I'm gonna be a famous actor, comedian? No, what,3 (28m 34s):What anything about it? Didn't I, you know, it's called Lane Tech for a reason, right? It's a technical school. Correct. So like we didn't, you know, it didn't, I mean there were arts, but I, it never really, you know, it was one of those things that were like, you know, I guess like when you were a kid, it's all like, hey, you wanna learn how to like macrame. But there were theater arts in my, in my high school, but it wasn't like,1 (28m 54s):In fact, my mother did macrame. And let me tell you something, it has come back in style. And the shit she made, we could be selling for $199 at Urban Outfitters right now. I'm just,3 (29m 4s):Oh yeah, it's trendy now. Yeah. It's like, yeah, it's in style.1 (29m 7s):Anyway, side note, side note. Okay, so you were like, I'm not doing, there was no performing at Lane Tech. There was no like out there, there,3 (29m 13s):There was, and there was, but it wasn't, again, you know, in terms of representation, there was nothing that like, I mean there was nothing that that showed me any kind of like longevity in, in, you know, it didn't even really occur to me that this was a business that people sort of like, you know, pursued for themselves. So it wasn't until I went to Marquette that I discovered theater. And so it was one of those things that like, I was like, oh, there's something here. So it wasn't like, it wasn't fostered since I was a kid.1 (29m 43s):This,2 (29m 44s):And this is my favorite type of origin story because it means, you know, like there are people who grow up in LA or their, their parents are in the industry. And then, so it's always a question like, am I gonna go into this industry? But, but people like you and like me and like Boz, who, there's no artist in our family, you know,3 (30m 4s):You2 (30m 4s):Just have to come to it on your own. So I would love to hear this story about finding it at Marquette.3 (30m 10s):So like the, this, I, I've told this story several times, but the short version of it is, so I went to college for chemistry. And so again, because I came from, you know, that that was just sort of the path that, that particularly, you know, an Asian American follows. It's a very sort of stem, regimented sort of culture. And when I went to Marquette, my first, my sort of my first like quarter there, it was overwhelming, you know, I mean, college was, was a big transition for me. I was away from home and I, I was overwhelmed with all of the STEM courses that I was taking, the GE courses. And I, I went to my advisor and at the time, you know, this is pre-internet, like he, we sat down, I sat down with him and he pulled out the catalog.3 (30m 52s):Oh yeah, the catalog, right? I1 (30m 54s):Remember the catalog. Oh yeah.3 (30m 56s):And so he was like, let's take a class that has nothing to do with your major. Oh,1 (30m 60s):I love this. I love this advisor. I love this advisor. Do you know, can he you say his name3 (31m 7s):At the, was it Daniel? Dr. Daniel t Hayworth. I mean, it's been a while I went to college with Dahmer was arrested. So that's been a1 (31m 15s):While. Okay. Yeah's, same with us. Same with me. Yeah.3 (31m 18s):Yeah. So like, I think it was Daniel Daniel Hayworth. Yeah. Cuz he was a, he was a chemistry professor as well. So he opened up, he opened up the, the thing in the, the catalog and it said acting for non-majors. And I remember thinking, that sounds easy, let's do that. And then I went to the class, I got in and he, he, he was able to squeeze me in because already it was already in the earl middle of the semester. And so I, the, the, the, the teacher for that class was a Jesuit priest. His name is Father Gerald Walling. And you know, God rest his soul. And he, his claim to fame was he had like two or three lines on Blues Brothers, the movie.1 (31m 59s):Amazing. I mean like great to fame to have Yes. Get shot in Chicago. Yeah. And if you're a Jesuit priest that's not an actor by trade, like that is like huge. Like most people would like die to have two to three lines on Blues Brothers that are working anyway. So, Okay, so you're, so he, so how was that class?3 (32m 19s):So I took the class and he, after like the first week he asked me, Hey is, and it was at 8:00 AM like typical, like one of those like classes that I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm gonna go in here miserable. Yeah. But he said to me early on, he said, Do you have any interest in doing this professionally? And I said, no. And he's like, and he, he said, and he said, I was like, You're hilarious. You know,1 (32m 43s):You're a hilarious Jesuit.3 (32m 45s):Yeah. I'm like, Good luck with God. He, he then he was directing, he was directing the university production of, and he asked me to audition for it. And I was, I don't even know what an audition was. That's amazing. So like, it was one of those things that I didn't really know how to do it. I didn't know much about it. And so he's like, Can you come in and audition for it? And I did and I got it and it was, it was Monts the physicist,1 (33m 12s):What the fuck is that?3 (33m 14s):Oh man, I love that play. It's Amont, it's the same, you know, it's the same. He's, you know, Exactly. It's really, it's one of those like sort of rarely done plays and it's about fictitious Albert Einstein, the real, lemme see if I, it's been so long since I recall this play. The real, So Isaac Newton and what was the other Mobius? A fictitious, So the real, I'm sorry, The real Albert Einstein, The real, the real Albert Einstein, the real Isaac Isaac New and a fake, a fictitious play scientist named Mobius.3 (33m 55s):And they were, they were all in, in a mental institution. And I1 (33m 60s):Think that I have this play and my shelves and I just have never read it before. Okay, so3 (34m 4s):Who did you play? It's extraordinary. Extraordinary. And so I played, I played a child like I did up until my mid thirties. I played a child who had like one line, and I remember it took, it took place in Germany, I believe. And I remember he's like, Do you have a German accent? I was like, No. You're1 (34m 20s):Like, I I literally am doing chemistry 90.3 (34m 23s):Yeah. I was all like, you're hilarious. Yeah. Only children do accents, You know what I mean? Like, it was totally, I was like, whatever's happening, I don't even know what's happening. And, and then I made up a European accent. I mean, I, I, I pulled it on my ass. I was like, sure, don't even remember it. But I was like, one of,1 (34m 39s):I love when people, like, recently Gina showed me a video of her in college with an accent. Let me tell you something, anytime anyone does an accent, I'm like, go for it. I think that it's so3 (34m 51s):Great. Yeah. I've got stories about, about, I mean, I'm Asian, right? So like, I mean it's been one of those things that all my life I've had to sort of navigate people being like, Hey, try this on for Verizon. I was like, Oh gosh. And you know, anyway, I can go on forever. But I did that, I had a line and then somebody saw me in the production with one line and said, Hey, this is at the Milwaukee Repertory Theater, somebody from the Milwaukee Repertory Theater. It's huge1 (35m 18s):Theater. Fyi. Right,3 (35m 20s):Right. Again, it's, it's to this day. And so they asked if I would intern, if I would be considered interning while I was in school. And I said, I didn't even know what that was. So I met with them. And when I walked into that theater, it was one of those, it's one of the biggest, most extraordinary music theaters in the wor in the country. Right. Won the regional, Tony and I, again, I had no frame of reverence for it. So walking in, it was like this magical place. And so I started, I started interning right, right off the bat. And it was one of those like life changing experiences. I, I mean, to this day, the best acting I think I've ever seen, you know, face to face has been on that stage. It's, you know, many of those actors are still, I'm still in touch with to this day.3 (36m 3s):Some of them have passed away. However, it was the best training, right? I mean, I got thrown into the deep end. It was like working with some of the greats who never, no one ever knew. Right. So it really, it was really a wonderful experience. And that's when I sort of, you know, that's when I was like, Oh, I actually can do this for a living. So it was,1 (36m 21s):Oh yeah, Milwaukee rep. I've seen some amazing stuff there. And also what would've been great is, yeah, we like, I mean there's so many things that would've been great at DePaul at the theater school, but one of them would've been, Hey, there's all these regional theaters, like if you wanna make some dough, it was either like, you are gonna be doing storefront and Die of Hunger, or you're gonna be a star. Hilarious was no like, what about Milwaukee Rep? What about the Guthrie? Like all the things3 (36m 50s):Gut, Yeah. Never1 (36m 51s):Told at least. Or I didn't listen or I was like in a blackout drunk state. But like, I just feel like hilarious. I just feel like that is so amazing that you got to do that. So then, Wait, did you change3 (37m 2s):Your It wasn't, I did. I eventually did. Yes. So I have both. And so now it was one of those, like, it was, it was harrowing, but eventually, I mean, I did nothing with my chemistry degree. Nothing. Like literally nothing. That's,2 (37m 16s):Most people do nothing with their theater degree. So, so it all evens out. Wait, I have a question. Now. This is a question that would be difficult for me to answer. So I wouldn't fault to you if it's difficult for you. What do you think it was in you that this person saw and said, have you ever considered doing this professionally? I mean, just trying to be really objective about the, the asce the essence of you that you bring to the table. Always. How, what did that person identify, do you think, if you3 (37m 44s):Had to guess? You know, I'd like to say it was talent. I'd love to be that person and be like, you know, they recognized in me in one line that ordinary artist was going to emerge into the universe and play children into his thirties. I, I wish I could. It was that, I mean, honestly, I looked different than everybody else on that's a white school and Milwaukee rep, you know, God, forgive me for saying this, but it was a sensibly all white institution.1 (38m 12s):Super white. Super white. Yeah.3 (38m 14s):So in comes this little Asian guy who like they thought might have had potential and also is Asian. And I checked off a lot of boxes for them. And you know what I could easily say, like I, I could easily sort of, when, if you asked me like 20 years ago, I was like, Oh, I was talented, but now I'm like, no, I made my way in because of, because I, I checked boxes for people and, and1 (38m 37s):Talented,3 (38m 38s):You couldn't,1 (38m 39s):You3 (38m 39s):Couldn't have done it if you didn't have talent to thank you. And I can, I can, you know, whatever, I can own that now. But the, but the reality is like, I made it in and that's how I got in. And I'm okay with that. And I'm not saying that it's not taking anything away from talent, but the reality is it's like you gotta get in on the inside to work your way out. And if I didn't have that exposure early on, I certainly wouldn't have had the regional career that I did for a little while. You know? So like that credit, like you, like you said Jen, it's like, it's a, it's a huge credit. So like I would not have made it in any other way. Right. And I certainly,1 (39m 12s):Yeah, I just am like noticing also like my reaction to, Yeah, it's interesting too as other humans in this industry or any industry, it's like, it's like we have had to, especially those of us that are, you know, I'm 47 and like those of us who have made it in or sort of in for, in my, I'm just speaking for myself. Like I, I sort of, right, It could have been fucked up reasons or weird reasons that we got in the door or even filling someone's need or fantasy. But then it's like what we do with it once we're in the room, that really, really matters. And I think that yeah, regardless of how you ended up in Milwaukee rep, like I think it's smart and like I really like the idea of saying okay, like that's probably why I was there.1 (39m 58s):I checked, I've checked boxes, but Okay. But that's why a lot of people are a lot of places. And so like, let's, let's, let's, you could stop there and be like, that is some fucked up shit. Fuck them. Or you could say, Wait a second, I'm gonna still have a fucking career and be a dope actor. Okay, so you're there, you're, you're still, you graduate from Marquette with a double major, I'm assuming, right? Chemistry and, and was it theater, straight up theater or what was your degree?3 (40m 23s):It's, well, no, no, it's called, it's, it's, it's the, at the time it's called, they didn't have a theater degree. Right. It was called the, you graduated with a degree in Communications. Communications,1 (40m 32s):Right? Yes. Okay, okay. Yeah. My, my niece likes to say Tia, all the people in communications at UCLA are the dumbest people. I'm like, No, no, no, no, no. That would've been me. And she's like, Well, anyway, so okay, so, so you graduate and what happens? What happens to you?3 (40m 54s):So, you know, I, I went from there. I went to, I got my equity card pretty ear pretty early cuz I went for my, I think it was my final between my, the summer, my junior year and my senior year I went to, because of the Milwaukee rep, I got asked to do summer stock at, at ppa, which is the Pacific Conservatory, the performing Arts, which is kind of like an Urda contract out in the West Co on the west coast. And so I was able to get credits there, which got me my equity card very quickly after, during that time I didn't get it at the institution, but I got like enough, you know, whatever credit that I was able to get my equity card. And again, at the time I was like, eh, what are the equity? I didn't even know know what that was really.3 (41m 34s):I don't know if anybody truly knows it when they're, when they're younger. So I had it and I went, right, I had my card and I went right to Chicago because family's there. So I was in Chicago. I did a couple of shows, I did one at at Lifeline at the time. I did one at North. Yeah. So it was nice to sort of go back and, and, and, and then I, you know, right then I, it's my favorite story, one of my favorite stories. I, I got my, my my SAG card and my after card in Chicago that summer, because at the time the union was separate. That's how old I am. And I got my SAG card doing a Tenax commercial, and I got my after card doing, I'm not sure if they're still there.3 (42m 18s):I think they are actually. It is a company called Break Breakthrough Services and they did it live industrial. Oh yeah.1 (42m 24s):They, I think they still wait live. How does that work? Yeah,3 (42m 29s):Exactly. So it's a lot of like those training, you know, you see it a lot, like the people do it, like corporate training stuff. Right. So they used, at the time it was really new. So like they used a lot of actors and they paid well.1 (42m 42s):Well, I did an Arthur Anderson one that like paid my rent3 (42m 45s):Long time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So exactly when Arthur Anderson was still a, I think I did one too. So like, they,1 (42m 53s):Rodney,3 (42m 55s):Were you in St. Charles, Illinois?1 (42m 57s):I don't know. I had to take the Amtrak. It could have been,3 (42m 59s):Yeah. In St. Charles. Right? That's where they were centered. Yes. Yeah.1 (43m 2s):Okay, go ahead. Go ahead. So you, okay, so you got your, I know our world. Do you live, Where do you live?3 (43m 8s):I'm in, I'm in LA right now. This is my home. Yeah.1 (43m 11s):Okay. Well I'm coming to your home. Okay, great. I'm in Pasadena right now. Okay. Anyway, go ahead. Oh yeah.3 (43m 17s):Okay. So we, yeah, I went to Chicago, got my cards, and then was there for, you know, a hot minute and then I moved to New York. Okay.1 (43m 25s):Wait, wait, wait. Moved. Did you have, what years were you working in Chicago? Like were we still, were Gina and I in school? What, what, what years were that were you were like, Tampa, a man Chicago.3 (43m 35s):I did God bless that commercial. Yeah, it was so good. I did, let's see here, I grad, I was there in 90, let's see, 97,1 (43m 47s):We were there. Well, Gina was graduating and I, I was, yeah. Anyway, we were there.3 (43m 52s):And then I moved to New York in 98 and then I moved to New in 98. So1 (43m 55s):You were only in Chicago a hot minute? Yeah, yeah, yeah.3 (43m 57s):Okay. Yeah. But then I came back, I came back in 2004 five to do a show at Victory Gardens. Oh. And then I did a show at Victory Gardens, and then I did a workshop at Stepin Wolf. So it was nice. Look at1 (44m 12s):Victory Gardens. Victory Gardens. That was a whole,3 (44m 15s):I'm sorry, what was that?1 (44m 16s):R i p, Victory Gardens.3 (44m 17s):Oh, yeah. I mean, well I was there pre-K. Yeah. And so, but it was, yeah, r i p I mean, r i it was truly one of the most magnificent, magnificent shows that I've been part, but I mean,1 (44m 30s):Okay, so wait, wait, wait. Okay, so why New York? Why weren't you like, I'm gonna bust out and go to LA and be a superstar on,3 (44m 38s):It's all about representation. I mean, I didn't see at the time, and you know, if you think about it, like there were people on television, but, you know, in terms of like the, the, the, it wasn't pervasive. It was like sort of every once in a while I'll turn on my TV and I'll see like Dante Bosco or I'll see like, you know what I mean? But it wasn't like I saw like, you know, I wasn't flooded with the image of an Asian American making it. However, at the time, you know, it was already Asian Americans were starting to sort of like flood the theater world, right? So I started, you know, through James c and, and Lisa Taro in Chicago, and like, people who are like, who are still friends of mine to this day, Asian American actors, they were doing theater. And so I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do theater. And so I, it was just one of those, like, I went to, and I already had these credits.3 (45m 19s):I had my equity card, I had some credits. My natural proclivity was then to go to, to, to first theater in New York. So it wasn't, I didn't even think about LA it wasn't like, oh, let me, let me like think about doing television and film. So I went1 (45m 32s):To York. I just feel like in LA it's so interesting. As an actor, writing is a little different, but as an actor, it, most of us, if we plan to go to LA as actors, we're gonna fail. I just feel like you have to end up here as an actor by accident because you do something else that you love and that people like, and then they're like, I just, it's not the most welcoming. Right. Medium film and tv. So like, it's so hard. So I think by accident is really sort of the only way, or if you're just already famous for something else, but like, anyway, So you're in New York. Did you, did you love it? Wait, can I,2 (46m 9s):Can I hang on Buzz, Can I do a timeout? Because I've been wanting to ask this just a little bit back to, you know, your undergrad experience. Did you wanna be, did you love chemistry or did you just do that because Oh, you did, Okay. So it wasn't, it wasn't like, oh, finally I found something that I, like you liked chemistry.3 (46m 29s):Yeah. To this day, to this day, I still like, it's still very much like, you know, the, the, the values of a stem field is still very much in how I teach, unfortunately. Right? Like, I'm very empirical. I, I, I need to know an, I need to have answers. Like, you know, it tends to, sometimes it tends to be a lot of it, like, you know, you know, sort of heady and I'm like, and now I need, I need, I'm pragmatic that way. I need to understand like why, Right? That2 (46m 53s):Doesn't seem unfortunate to me. That seems actually really fortunate because A, you're not the only artist who likes to think. I mean, you know, what about DaVinci? Like, a lot of people like to think about art in a, in a, I mean it's really, they're, they're, they're really kind of married art and science.3 (47m 8s):Yeah. They really are people. I, I think people would, It's so funny. Like people don't see it as such, but you're absolutely right. I agree. It's so more, Yeah. There's so much more in common.1 (47m 18s):The other thing that I'm glad Gina brought that up is cuz I'm questioning like, okay, so like, I don't know about at Marquette, but like at DePaul we had like, we had, like, we had these systems of, you got warnings if you, you weren't doing great and I bet like you probably didn't have the cut system cause that just is okay, good. But okay.3 (47m 36s):Well we were, we remember we were, we weren't a conservatory, right? So we were very much a, a liberal programming.1 (47m 42s):Yeah, I love it. Oh God, how I longed for that later, right? But anyway, so what would've helped is if someone with an empirical, like someone with more a stem mind sat down with me and said, okay, like, here are the things that aren't working in a practical way for you, and here are the things that you can do to fix it. Instead, it was literally this nebulous thing where my warning said, You're not living up to your star power now that's not actually a note. So that, that, that Rick Murphy gave me, and I don't, to this day, I'm like, that is actually, so I would love if I had someone like you, not that you'd be in that system, but like this to say like, okay, like here's the reasons why.1 (48m 25s):Like there was no why we were doing anything. It was like, you just do this in order to make it. And I said, Okay, I'll do it. But I was like, what the hell? Why are we doing this? That's,3 (48m 35s):That's like going to a doctor and a doctor being like, you're sick. You know what I mean? And you're like, but can, that's why I'm here is for you to help me get to the root of it and figure it out. Right. Being like, you're,1 (48m 46s):I think they didn't know, Here's the thing, I don't think it, it3 (48m 50s):Was because they're in.1 (48m 51s):Yeah. I I don't think it was because they were, I mean, they could have been rude in all the things. I literally, now that I'm 47, looking back on that experience, I'm like, Oh, these teachers didn't fucking know what they were, how to talk. And3 (49m 3s):This is how I came. Yeah, yeah. Which is how I came back to usc. So like that's,1 (49m 7s):Anyway, continue your New York adventure. I just wanted to know.3 (49m 11s):No, no, no. New York is was great. New York is New York was wonderful. I love it. I still love it. I I literally just got back with it. That's why, remember I was texting you, emailing you guys. I I just got back, Yes. The night before. Some amazing things. My husband would move back in a heartbeat if I, if I like texted him right now. And I was like, Hey, like let's move back. The house would be packed and we'd, he'd be ready to go. He loves, we both love it. You know, Am I in love with New York? I, that, that remains to be seen. I mean, you know, as I get older that life is, it's a hard life and I, I love it when there's no responsibilities when you can like, skip around and have tea and you know, walk around Central Park and like see shows.3 (49m 53s):But you know, that's obviously not the real, the reality of the day to day in New York. So I miss it. I love it. I've been back for work many times, but I, I I don't know that the life is there for me anymore. Right. I mean, you know, six fuller walkups. Oh no. Oh no. I just, yeah, I1 (50m 11s):Just like constantly sweating in Manhattan. Like I can't navigate, It's like a lot of rock walking really fast and3 (50m 20s):Yeah. And no one's wearing masks right now. I just, I just came back and I saw six shows when I was there. No one's wearing masks. It's like unnerving. And again, like, you know, you know, not throwing politics in it. I was like, you guys, like, how are you okay with it? I'm just like, how are you not unnerved by the fact that we're cramped in worse than an airplane? And everyone's like coughing around you and we're sitting here for three hours watching Death of a Salesman. I mean, like, how was that1 (50m 43s):Of an2 (50m 45s):Yeah know?3 (50m 46s):I mean,2 (50m 47s):So what about the, so at some point you, you pretty much, I mean, you don't do theater anymore, right? You transition to doing3 (50m 55s):Oh, I know, I do. Very much so, very much. I'm also the associate, Yeah. I'm the associate artistic director of, I am a theater company, so like I'm, I'm very much theater's. I will never let go. It's, it's just one of those things I will never as, as wonderful as television and film has been. It's, it's also like theater's, you know? It's the, it's my own, it's my first child. Yeah.2 (51m 19s):Yeah.1 (51m 20s):We have guests like Tina Parker was like that, right? Wasn't,2 (51m 23s):Yeah. Well a lot of, a lot of people. It's also Tina Wong said the same thing.3 (51m 26s):He and I are different. She's part, we're in the same theater company. So Yeah. Tina's.2 (51m 30s):That's right. That's right. That's right. Okay, now I'm remembering what that connection was. So I have a question too about like, when I love it, like I said, when people have no idea anything related to performing arts, and then they get kind of thrust into it. So was there any moment in sort of discovering all this where you were able to make sense of, or flesh out like the person that you were before you came to this? Like a lot of people have the experience of, of doing a first drama class in high school and saying, Oh my God, these are my people. And never knowing that their people existed. Right. Did you have anything like that where you felt like coming into this performing sphere validated or brought some to fullness?2 (52m 14s):Something about you that previously you hadn't been able to explore?3 (52m 18s):Yeah. I mean, coming out, you know what I mean? Like, it was the first time that people talk, you know? Of course, you know, you know, I was born to, you know, like was God, I said I was born this way. But that being said, like again, in the world in which I grew up in, in Chicago and Lane Tech, it's, and, and the, you know, the technical high school and, and just the, the, the, I grew up in a community of immigrants. It's not like it was laid out on the table for one to talk about all the time. Right. It wasn't, and even though I may have thought that in my head again, it wasn't like, it was like something that was in the universe and in the, in the air that I breathed. So I would say that like when I got to the theater, it was the first time, you know, the theater, you guys we're, we're theater kids, right?3 (53m 2s):We know like every, everything's dramatic. Everything's laid, you know, out to, you know, for everyone. Everyone's dramas laid out for everyone. A the, and you know, part of it was like sexuality and talking about it and being like, and having just like, just being like talking about somebody's like ethnic background. And so it was the first time that I learned how to talk about it. Even to even just like how you even des you know, you know how you even describe somebody, right? And how somebody like, cuz that again, it's not, it wasn't like, it wasn't language that I had for myself. So I developed the language and how to speak about people. So that's my first thing about theater that I was like, oh, thank God.3 (53m 43s):You know? And then, you know, even talking about, you know, like queer, like queer was such a crazy insult back when I was a kid. And then now all of a sudden queer is now this embraced sort of like, badge of honor, Right? And so like, it was just like that and understanding like Asian and Asian American breaking that down, right? And being Filipino very specifically breaking that down, that all came about from me being in theater. And so like, I, I'm, I owe my, my life to it if you, and, and because I've, yeah, I didn't, you know, it's so funny how the title of this is I Survived Theater School for me. It's, Yes, Yes.3 (54m 23s):And I also, it also allowed theater also gave, allowed me to survive. Yes.2 (54m 31s):Theater helped you survive. Yes. That's beautiful. So in this, in the, in this spectrum or the arc, whatever you wanna call it, of representation and adequate representation and you know, in all of our lifetimes, we're probably never gonna achieve what we think is sort of like a perfect representation in media. But like in the long arc of things, how, how do you feel Hollywood and theater are doing now in terms of representation of, of specifically maybe Filipino, but Asian American people. How, how do you think we're doing?3 (55m 3s):I think we, you know, I think that there's, there's certainly a shift. You know, obviously it, we'd like it to be quicker than faster than, than it has been. But that being said, there's certainly a shift. Look, I'm being, I'll be the first person to say there are many more opportunities that are available that weren't there when I started in this, in this business, people are starting to like diversify casts. And you know, I saw Haiti's Town, it was extraordinary, by the way. I saw six shows in New York in the span of six days out of, and this was not conscious of me. This is not something I was doing consciously. Out of the six shows, I saw every single show had 90% people of color.3 (55m 43s):And it wasn't, and I wasn't conscientious of it. I wasn't like, I'm going to go see the shows that like, it just happened that all I saw Hamilton, I saw K-pop, I saw, you know, a death of a Salesman I saw. And they all were people of color and it was beautiful. So there's definitely a shift. That said, I, for me, it's never, this may sound strange, it's not the people in front of the camera or on stage that I have a problem with. Like, that to me is a bandaid. And this is me speaking like an old person, right? I need, it needs to change from the top down. And for me, that's what where the shift needs to happen for me. Like all the people at top, the, the, the people who run the thing that needs to change. And until that changes, then I can expect to starter from1 (56m 25s):The low. It's so interesting cuz like, I, I, I feel like that is, that is, we're at a point where we'd love to like the bandaid thing. Like really people really think that's gonna work. It never holds. Like that's the thing about a bandaid. The longer the shit is on, it'll fall off eventually. And then you still have the fucking wound. So like, I, I, I, and what I'm also seeing, and I don't know if you guys are seeing it, but what I'm seeing is that like, so people got scared and they fucking started to promote execs within the company of color and othered folks and then didn't train them. And now are like, Oh, well we gave you a shot and you failed, so let's get the white kid back in that live, you know, my uncle's kid back in to, to be the assistant.1 (57m 6s):And I'm3 (57m 7s):Like, no people up for success is a huge thing. Yeah. They need to set people up for success. Yes, yes, for sure.2 (57m 12s):Yeah. So it's, it's performative right now. We're still in the performative phase of1 (57m 16s):Our, you3 (57m 17s):Know, I would say it feels, it, it can feel performative. I I'm, I'm definitely have been. I've experienced people who do get it, you know what I mean? It's just, Sunday's a perfect example of somebody who does get it. But that being said, like again, it needs to, we need more of those people who get it with a capital I like, you know, up at the top. Cause again, otherwise it's just performative, like you said. So it's,1 (57m 38s):Does it make you wanna be an exec and be at the top and making choices? Yeah,3 (57m 42s):You know, I've always, people have asked me, you know, people have asked me what is the next thing for me. I'd love to show run. I've, I just, again, this is the, this is the stem part of me, right? Like, of us, like is I'm great at putting out fires, I just have been that person. I'm good with people, I'm, I'm, you know, and I've, I, you know, it's, it's, it's just one of those things that like I, I see is a, is a natural fit. But until that happens, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm also, you know, a professor is very much a version of show learning. So I've been doing that every day.1 (58m 14s):We talk about how, cause