Podcasts about The Experience Economy

In this episode of Skip the Queue, Andy Povey is joined by Ray Hole of Ray Hole Architects for a wide-ranging and thought-provoking conversation about strategy, storytelling and the true economics of experience design. Key Topics Discussed The “Camelot” collaboration model in attraction development Experience economy vs. pure economics Primacy and recency effects in guest psychology Designing the departure experience Turning operational cost into experiential value Storytelling through architecture Instagrammable design and generational behaviour Empathy in ticketing and security Integrating accommodation into attraction strategy Converting capex into revenue-generating experiences   Show References:   Ray Hole, Managing Director of Ray Hole Architects https://www.rayhole-architects.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/ray-hole-a6b7396/   Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your host is Andy Povey.   Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

This episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different reunites us with the renowned business thinker Joe Pine, whose work on the experience economy transformed how organizations define value. We join Christopher and Joe in tracing the progression from products and services to experiences, and now to transformations, where companies move beyond creating memorable moments to helping people achieve meaningful change. Through examples, definitions, and personal stories, they clarify what distinguishes an experience, why it has become central to modern economies, and how the emerging transformation economy repositions businesses as guides in their customers' journeys toward their aspirations. You're listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let's go. Joe Pine on the Experience Economy and Changing Consumer Priorities Lochhead reflects on how Pine's book The Experience Economy revealed experiences as a distinct economic offering, separate from commodities, goods, and services. Pine defines experiences as events in which companies use goods as props and services as the stage to personally engage people and create lasting memories. They note how brands such as Starbucks intuitively staged experiences long before the concept had formal language. Today, cultural trends and research show that consumers, especially younger generations, increasingly value experiences over material possessions. Rather than accumulating things, people seek moments that feel meaningful, enjoyable, and worth remembering and sharing. Joe Pine on how Experiences Function in B2B Contexts Pine and Lochhead argue that experiences are just as critical in B2B environments as they are in consumer markets. Pine explains that the experience itself has become the most powerful form of marketing, because it earns attention, builds trust, and generates demand. They describe executive briefing centers, innovation hubs, and destination events where clients are welcomed into carefully designed environments that educate and inspire. Lochhead recalls building a Customer Welcome Center at Mercury Interactive and orchestrating every detail, from airport pickup to on-site interactions, as one cohesive journey. This stands in sharp contrast to traditional advertising, which is often fleeting and easily forgotten. From Experiences to Transformations The discussion culminates in Pine's concept of the transformation economy, introduced in his book The Transformation Economy. Transformations represent the next stage, where customers are no longer asking for moments to enjoy but for help becoming who they want to be. While experiences focus on time well spent, transformations emphasize time well invested. Joe Pine introduces the idea of encapsulation, which includes preparation before an experience, reflection afterward, and integration over time to sustain real change. Together, he and Lochhead connect this to their own work, designing not just books, but ecosystems of courses, communities, tools, and future technologies intended to guide lasting personal and professional growth. To hear more from Joe Pine about the Transformation Economy, download and listen to this episode. Bio Joe Pine is a renowned author, speaker, and management advisor best known as the co-author of The Experience Economy, a groundbreaking book that reshaped how businesses create value. His work introduced the concept that companies must orchestrate memorable experiences to remain competitive in an evolving marketplace. With deep expertise in innovation and customer experience design, Joe helps organizations around the world architect differentiated experiences that drive growth and loyalty. He has worked with leading global brands across industries from retail and hospitality to healthcare and technology. Joe is also a sought-after keynote speaker and co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP. His insights continue to influence leaders seeking to transform the way they engage customers. Links Connect with Joe Pine! LinkedIn | Strategic Horizons We hope you enjoyed this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast / Spotify!

Joe Pine is an internationally recognized author, speaker, and advisor, best known for The Experience Economy and his latest work, The Transformation Economy. In this episode, Joe explains why the market is finally ready—25 years later—for the shift to the transformation economy. He walks through the evolution of economic value, from commodities to goods, services, experiences, and now transformations, and makes the case that businesses must stop charging for inputs and start charging for outcomes. Joe introduces the four spheres of transformation—Health & Wellbeing, Wealth & Prosperity, Knowledge & Wisdom, and Purpose & Meaning—and argues that the true role of business is human flourishing: helping people become who they're meant to be. Profit isn't the goal; it's the scorecard. We also explore "encapsulation"—preparation, reflection, and integration—and why it's the key to turning experiences into lasting change. Joe breaks down why outcomes-based pricing is both the hardest shift and the biggest opportunity for transformation-driven companies. In this conversation, you'll learn how to spot transformation opportunities in your business, move beyond time-based pricing, and align what you charge with what customers actually value. Find episode 499 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Joe Pine on You're Charging for the Wrong Thing with Joe Pine https://bit.ly/TLP-499 Key Takeaways [04:04] Joe explains why the world is finally ready for the transformation economy after 25 years of people asking when he'd write this book. [09:11] The four spheres of transformation: Health & Wellbeing, Wealth & Prosperity, Knowledge & Wisdom, and Purpose & Meaning—and why almost every business can find themselves in at least one. [12:59] The difference between fitness centers (charging for time as an experience) versus personal trainers (instilling discipline for transformation). [17:42] Why companies must eventually align what they charge for with what customers value—and how this drives the shift to outcomes-based pricing. [22:09] Joe introduces "invitational transformations"—experiences that invite people to transform their identity (like the Guinness Storehouse or Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library). [26:38] Human flourishing defined: the extent to which people are who they're meant to be. This is the raison d'être of business. [34:09] The concept of encapsulation: Preparation (before the experience), Reflection (after), and Integration (ongoing)—the framework that turns experiences into transformations. [35:59] How Joe wrote the book on Substack, getting real-time feedback from subscribers that fundamentally changed key frameworks in the book. [44:18] Joe's vision for transformation businesses: charge for demonstrated outcomes, foster human flourishing, and recognize that profits measure how well you help people flourish—not the end goal itself. [46:46] And remember..."The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic. Transformation begins with a change in mindset." — Peter Drucker Quotable Quotes "You are what you charge for. If you charge for undifferentiated stuff, you're in the commodities business. If you charge for demonstrated outcomes that your customers achieve, you're in the transformation business." "Eventually you have to align what you charge for with what your customers value. Let me say it again: Eventually you have to align what you charge for with what your customers value." "Fostering human flourishing is the raison d'être of business, period. That's why business exists—to help people flourish." "Human flourishing is the extent to which people are who they're meant to be." "The irony is of course that you may be offering a transformation guarantee, but that's exactly what you can't actually do. You can't guarantee a transformation. However, the best way to get it to happen is to offer a guarantee." "Profits are never the end. They're always the measurement by which you achieve the ends of human flourishing." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Joe Pine Website | www.strategichorizons.com Joe Pine X | @joepine Joe Pine LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/joepine TLP004: Joe Pine - Visionary Leadership Instilling Purpose

Best-selling author, speaker, and management adviser Joe Pine joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss his new book, The Transformation Economy, why it applies especially well to consultants, coaches, and advisors, and gives some tips on how to price transformations.Chapters(00:00) - Welcome and Introduction (00:26) - Discussing the Experience Economy (00:43) - Introducing the Transformation Economy (01:26) - Understanding Transformations and Aspirations (04:15) - Frameworks for Identity Change (07:09) - Real-Life Examples of Transformations (13:27) - Pricing Transformations and Value (18:01) - Guaranteeing Transformations (22:52) - Navigating Client Relationships (23:08) - The Power of Commitment (23:58) - Value-Based Pricing (25:01) - The Turnaround King (26:15) - Maintaining Progress and Overcoming Setbacks (28:13) - Commitment to the Process (29:41) - Measuring Success and Transformation (36:51) - Creating a Sustainable Business Model (37:20) - Book Launch and Writing Process (42:05) - Conclusion and Resources Joe's BioB. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management adviser to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial startups alike, and he is the cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP. He is the coauthor of the bestselling book The Experience Economy with James H. Gilmore, as well as Infinite Possibility with Kim C. Korn. His other books include Authenticity and Mass Customization. Pine consults with numerous companies around the world. He is a lecturer in the Strategic Technology Leadership program at Northeastern University's D'Amore-McKim School of Business and a senior fellow with the European Centre for the Experience Economy, which he cofounded.Related LinksJoe's website » strategichorizons.comJoe's previous appearance on Ditching Hourly » podcast.ditchinghourly.com/episodes/joe-pine-on-pricing-experiencesJoe's previous appearance on TBOA » thebusinessofauthority.com/episodes/the-experience-economy-with-guest-joe-pine ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

In this episode, Rory speaks with Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy and author of the new book The Transformation Economy, about the progression of economic value and why financial professionals are uniquely positioned to guide lasting change. Joe explains how we've moved from commodities to goods, services, and experiences and now into the Transformation Economy, where the true value lies in helping clients achieve their aspirations across health, wealth, wisdom, and purpose. He introduces the concept of the “aspirant,” explores why all transformation is identity change, and shares how preparation, reflection, and integration can turn ordinary client interactions into meaningful breakthroughs. They discuss why charging for outcomes aligns incentives, how AI can augment coaching, and why the future of advice is about guiding human flourishing, not just delivering a product or service. Want to know how to design client journeys that move beyond experiences and into true transformation? Curious how to become the guide to a clients' hero's journeys? Find out the answers to these questions and more in this forward-looking conversation with Joe Pine.

In this special episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, Joe Pine shares with Dave and Aransas background about the book!  To celebrate the release of his new book, The Transformation Economy. The conversation traces the book's origins from the final two chapters of The Experience Economy, explores why the world is finally ready for this idea, and unpacks key frameworks — including encapsulation (preparation, reflection, and integration) — that make experiences truly transformative. The trio also discusses the role of AI in enabling transformation, why businesses must foster human flourishing, and who stands to benefit most from reading the book. Key Topics Why now for The Transformation Economy? Joe waited over 25 years because "the world wasn't ready" and he "didn't know enough." Research through Stone Mantle's collaboratives, the World Experience Organization, and post-COVID shifts toward meaningful experiences signaled the time had come. Catalysts for transformation. The most prevalent catalyst is trauma — illness, loss, job changes, retirement. These disruptions create the conditions where people seek to see, do, and be differently. The four spheres of human flourishing: Health & well-being Wealth & prosperity Knowledge & wisdom Purpose & meaning Encapsulation — the essential framework (Chapter 4): To turn a memorable experience into a transformative one, you need three layers around the core experience: preparation (priming beforehand), reflection (making meaning afterward — which retroactively increases the value of the experience), and integration (sustaining change over time). The business model problem. Most companies get paid for the event, not the outcome. Shifting to outcome-based pricing — as McKinsey is doing with AI projects — aligns incentives with lasting transformation. AI as a transformation enabler. AI makes the hardest parts of delivering transformation (especially ongoing integration and support) dramatically more accessible and affordable. Who Should Read This Book? Companies in education, finance, health, and well-being Any business focused on improving the lives of families and individuals The creator economy — creators already doing transformation work who need frameworks to do it well and realize its full value Notable Quotes "The entire raison d'être of business is to foster human flourishing." — Joe Pine "Reflection retroactively increases the value of the experience." — Joe Pine "If you don't do it, it's just lazy." — Aransas Savas, on using available technology to encapsulate experiences Mentioned in This Episode The Transformation Economy by Joe Pine The Experience Economy by Joe Pine & Jim Gilmore Stone Mantel's Experience Strategy Collaboratives The World Experience Organization (founded by James Wallman) Arrival 360 Conference Daniel Kahneman's experiencing self vs. remembering self McKinsey's outcome-based AI pricing model Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

Turning Customer Experience into Customer Transformation  Shep interviews Joseph Pine, best-selling author of Experience Economy, speaker, and cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP. He talks about his new book, The Transformation Economy, and how businesses can go beyond creating memorable experiences to guiding customers through meaningful transformations that help them achieve their aspirations.  This episode of Amazing Business Radio with Shep Hyken answers the following questions and more:    What is the transformation economy?  What is the difference between selling a product and creating a transformative customer experience?  How can businesses guide customers to achieve their personal or professional aspirations?  What are the benefits of customizing experiences to meet individual customer needs?  What elements contribute to a robust customer experience?  Top Takeaways:    The transformation economy is about how companies can help customers change. It is about how your business can help them achieve their aspirations.   Businesses create more value when they focus on selling the end rather than the means. Go beyond selling products and services to understanding why customers buy and use that knowledge to help them reach their goals and achieve their aspirations.  Transformation is not a one-size-fits-all. It must begin with truly understanding where the customer is starting (from) and where your customers aspire to end up (to). Carefully identify the customer's current situation, needs, and aspirations to tailor experiences that produce meaningful outcomes for them.  Sell transformation, not just products. For example, people don't buy a treadmill because they want the equipment. They want to be healthier, have more stamina, or feel better about themselves. Whether you're selling a physical product, a service, or something else, shift your mindset to the customer's desired result.   In both B2B and B2C, businesses should become trusted partners, not just vendors. That means understanding clients' deeper goals and helping them achieve success, even if it occasionally means recommending solutions outside what you sell. The focus is on the customer's outcome, not just the transaction.  In the transformation economy, companies should charge for what customers value most: outcomes. Companies are moving away from pricing based on time, materials, or products. It is focused on results.  Transformative change for customers doesn't come from a single transaction. It spans the entire journey, including the preparation before the event, reflection afterwards, and ongoing integration into daily life.  Plus, Shep and Joe share insights from The Transformation Economy and discuss companies that are putting customer transformations first. Tune in!  Quote:   "Transformations are built on top of experiences. We change through the experiences that we have. "    About:    Joseph Pine is a bestselling author, speaker, and cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP, celebrated for guiding Fortune 500 companies and innovative startups alike. He is the author of The Experience Economy, Mass Customization, and Infinite Possibility.  Shep Hyken is a customer service and experience expert, New York Times bestselling author, award-winning keynote speaker, and host of Amazing Business Radio.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

IN CLEAR FOCUS: Professor Sarah Montano discusses her new book, "Retail Marketing: Contemporary Approaches to Retailing in the Digital and Experience Economy." Sarah explains why brands must master "phygital" experiences and third place community building to survive. She explores the impact of the cost-of-living crisis, ethical consumption challenges, and success stories like Jellycat. Learn how to navigate the digital and experience economy while maintaining authentic human connections.

A few months ago I finally hit a major milestone...After years of putting it off, I finally started taking golf lessons.Jasper, my coach (or "pro" as they say in the golf world), has been helping me develop a proper swing. But being me, I just can't help but look at Jasper through a service design lens.What is he actually selling me? Or better yet: what am I actually buying?Right now, I pay by the hour. That buys me Jasper's time and a bit of grass to practice on. But what if I didn't pay for the service, which is just time well saved, but rather for the outcome?What if Jasper promised to take me from someone who barely knows how to hold a club to being a confident, competent golfer? Because in the end, that's truly the identity shift I'm actually looking for.Just think about how much that proposition would change the dynamics, not just for me, but for Jasper's entire business model. When that offer is on the table, why would I ever settle for a coach selling me "practice time" (a commodity) when I could invest in the transformation I actually desire?This shift toward "transformations" as an economic offering isn't new.It was already described in the industry defining book The Experience Economy back in 1999.We've been lucky enough to have Joe Pine, the book's co-author, on the Show twice before. Now, he's back.It's been 27 years since he published the book that influenced so many of us, and he has just published the long-awaited follow-up titled, you guessed it, The Transformation Economy.In this episode, we sit down to chat about what this shift means for us as service design professionals and what it means for the future of business. I'm fairly certain this is the very first podcast where Joe discusses the new book, so we've got a true exclusive on our hands.So will this be the next chapter for our field? Listen to the episode to find out!As you listen to the conversation, I'd love for you to think about your own projects. Are you designing for "time well spent," or are you ready to guide your customers through a real identity shift?Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!Be well,~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24604:45 Why the book is still relevant06:15 Progression of Economic Value11:00 Defining economic offerings13:00 Birth of the Transformation Economy17:30 Experience vs. Transformation20:30 Focusing on the "Aspirant"22:00 Time Saved vs. Time Well Spent25:00 Experience design examples27:00 Novelty and social bonding31:15 Investment for time32:30 Turning experiences into change34:30 Service vs. Experience design37:30 Moving to transformations38:30 The power of intentionality40:45 Using reflection to add value43:30 Changing your identity44:45 Goal: Human flourishing47:30 What it means to flourish49:30 Satisfaction vs. improvement50:45 The drive for better51:30 Designing for transformation54:00 Transformative learning56:30 The Golf Coach story01:00:15 The new book release01:01:00 Key takeaway from Joe Pine01:02:45 Final thoughts --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/Website - https://strategichorizons.comBuy the book now --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle[4. FIND THE SHOW ON]Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-snipd

Σε αυτό το νέο podcast (Νο 190) της στήλης Business & Marketing Tips της Athens Voice με τίτλο «Από το “πόσο μου κοστίζει” στο “πόσο με γεμίζει”, συζητάμε συζητάμε The Experience Economy.Τι σημαίνει όμως «Οικονομία των Εμπειριών» και γιατί σήμερα είναι πιο επίκαιρη από ποτέ; Από το προφητικό βιβλίο των Joseph Pine II και James H. Gilmore (1999) μέχρι τη σημερινή πραγματικότητα των social media, του mobile internet και της διαρκούς “δημοσιοποίησης” της εμπειρίας, η αξία μετακινείται σταθερά από το προϊόν και την υπηρεσία προς κάτι πιο βαθύ: το συναίσθημα, τη συμμετοχή, τη μνήμη.Σε αυτό το podcast μιλάμε για το πώς φτάσαμε εδώ, γιατί πλέον κάθε επαφή με ένα brand μπορεί να γίνει δημόσια (και να πολλαπλασιάσει την αξία της εμπειρίας), και γιατί η «πολύ καλή εξυπηρέτηση» δεν είναι διαφοροποίηση — είναι το minimum. Το πραγματικό ανταγωνιστικό πλεονέκτημα βρίσκεται στο “κάτι παραπάνω” που κάνει τον πελάτη να νιώσει έκπληξη, χαρά, ενθουσιασμό ή συγκίνησηΚαι κάπου εδώ μπαίνει η πιστότητα: όχι ως αποτέλεσμα κουπονιών, πόντων και εκπτώσεων-πυροτεχνημάτων, αλλά ως αποτέλεσμα αυθεντικών στιγμών που δεν αντιγράφονται. Γιατί προϊόντα και υπηρεσίες αντιγράφονται. Μια εμπειρία που είναι ανθρώπινη, μοναδική και συναισθηματικά φορτισμένη, όχι.Αν θέλετε να μάθετε πώς συνδέεται η Οικονομία των Εμπειριών με το customer loyalty, το lifetime value και το πώς τα σύγχρονα brands σχεδιάζουν πλέον «εμπειρίες» και όχι απλώς «προσφορές», αυτό το επεισόδιο είναι για εσάς.

For more than 150 years, Italy has been home to a resilient and evolving resistance against the pervasive influence of mafias. While these criminal organizations are renowned for their vast international business enterprises, the collective actions taken to oppose them are less known. Drawing on ethnographic fieldwork among anti-mafia alliances in Campania, Sicily, and other parts of Italy, Christina Jerne explores anti-mafia activism, revealing how ordinary people resist, counter, and prevent criminal economies from proliferating. Jerne is joined in conversation with Deborah Puccio-Den and Trine Mygind Korsby.Christina Jerne is associate professor in the Department of Scandinavian Studies and Experience Economy at Aarhus University, Denmark. Jerne is author of Opposition by Imitation: The Economics of Italian Anti-Mafia Activism and coeditor and translator of Against the Mafia: The Classic Italian Writings.Deborah Puccio-Den is a political anthropologist and research professor at the National Center for Scientific Research and the Ecole de Hautes Etudes en Sciences Sociales, Paris, France. She is author of Mafiacraft: An Ethnography of Deadly Silence.Trine Mygind Korsby is assistant professor in the Department of Anthropology at the University of Copenhagen and currently Marie Curie fellow at graduate center City of New York.REFERENCES:Mafiacraft: An Ethnography of Deadly Silence / Deborah Puccio-DenUmberto SantinoGiovanni FalconeAudre LordeJ. K. Gibson-GrahamBruno LatourJean Luc NancyGabriel TardeGilles DeleuzeFelix GuattariAddiopizzo Praise for the book:"Placing human experience at the center of collective action, Opposition by Imitation presents radically new directions for thinking about social movements. Christina Jerne captures both the fragility and strength of the struggle against mafia economies, powerfully demonstrating how anti-mafia activism opens up space for non-mafia relationships and economies to flourish."—Kevin McDonald, Middlesex UniversityOpposition by Imitation: The Economics of Italian Anti-Mafia Activism by Christina Jerne is available from University of Minnesota Press. Thank you for listening.

Happy New Year 2026! I love January and the opportunity to start afresh. I know it's arbitrary in some ways, but I measure my life by what I create, and I also measure it in years. At the beginning of each year, I publish an article (and podcast episode) here, which helps keep me accountable. If you'd like to share your goals, please add them in the comments below. 2026 is a transitional year as I will finish my Masters degree and continue the slow pivot that I started in December 2023 after 15 years as an author entrepreneur. Just to recap that, it was: From digitally-focused to creating beautiful physical books; From high-volume, low cost to premium products with higher Average Order Value; From retailer-centric to direct first; and From distance to presence, and From creating alone to the AI-Assisted Artisan Author. I've definitely stepped partially into all of those, and 2026 will continue in that same direction, but I also have an additional angle for Joanna Penn and The Creative Penn that I am excited about. If you'd like to join my community and support the show every month, you'll get access to my growing list of Patron videos and audio on all aspects of the author business — for the price of a black coffee (or two) a month. Join us at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn. Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-winning, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller author as J.F. Penn. She's also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Leaning into the Transformation Economy The Creative Penn Podcast and my Patreon Community Webinars and live events Finish my Masters in Death, Religion, and Culture Bones of the Deep — J.F. Penn Add merch to CreativePennBooks.com and JFPennBooks.com How to Write, Publish, and Market Short Stories and Short Story Collections — Joanna Penn Other possible books Experiment more with AI translation Ideally outsource more marketing to AI, but do more marketing anyway Double down on being human, health and travel You can find all my books as J.F. Penn and Joanna Penn on your favourite online store in all the usual formats, or order from your local library or bookstore. You can also buy direct from me at CreativePennBooks.com and JFPennBooks.com. I'm not really active on social media, but you can always see my photos at Instagram @jfpennauthor. Leaning into the Transformation Economy I've struggled with my identity as Joanna Penn and my Creative Penn brand for a few years now. When I started TheCreativePenn.com in 2008, the term ‘indie author' was new and self-publishing was considered ‘vanity press' and a sure way to damage your author career, rather than a conscious creative and business choice. It was the early days of the Kindle and iPhone (both launched in 2007), and podcasting and social media were also relatively new. While US authors could publish on KDP, the only option for international authors was Smashwords and the market for ebooks was tiny. Print-on-demand and digital audio were also just emerging as viable options. While it was the early era of blogging, there were very few blogs and barely any podcasts talking about self-publishing, so when I started TheCreativePenn.com in late 2008 and the podcast in March 2009, it was a new area. For several years, it was like howling into the wind. Barely any audience. Barely any traffic, and certainly very little income.  But I loved the freedom and the speed at which I could learn things and put them into practice. Consume and produce. That has always been my focus. I met people on Twitter and interviewed them for my show, and over those early years I met many of the people I consider dear friends even now. Since self-publishing was a relatively unexplored niche in those early years, I slowly found an audience and built up a reputation. I also started to make more money both as an author, and as a creative entrepreneur. Over the years since, pretty much everything has changed for indie authors and we have had more and more opportunity every year. I've shared everything I've learned along the way, and it's been a wonderful time.  But as self-publishing became more popular and more authors saw more success (which is FANTASTIC!), other voices joined the chorus and now, there are many thousands of authors of all different levels with all kinds of different experiences sharing their tips through articles, books, podcasting, and social media. I started to wonder whether my perspective was useful anymore. On top of the human competition, in November 2022, ChatGPT launched, and it became clear that prescriptive non-fiction and ‘how to' information could very easily be delivered by the AI tools, with the added benefit of personalisation. You can ask Chat or Claude or Gemini how you can self-publish your particular book and they will help you step by step through the process of any site. You can share your screen or upload screenshots and it can help with what fields to fill in (very useful with translations!), as well as writing sales descriptions, researching keywords, and offering marketing help targeted to your book and your niche, and tailored to your voice. Once again, I questioned what value I could offer the indie author community, and I've pulled back over the last few years as I've been noodling around this. But over the last few weeks, a penny has dropped. Here's my thinking in case it also helps you. Firstly, I want to be useful to people. I want to help. In my early days of speaking professionally, from 2005-ish, I wanted to be the British (introvert) Tony Robbins, someone who inspired people to change, to achieve things they didn't think they could. Writing a book is one of those things. Making a living from your writing is another. So I leaned into the self-help and how-to niche. But now that is now clearly commoditised. But recently, I realised that my message has always been one of transformation, and in the following four areas.  From someone who doesn't think they are creative but who desperately wants to write a book, to someone who holds their first book in their hand and proudly says, ‘I made this.' The New Author. From someone who has no confidence in their author voice, who wonders if they have anything to say, to someone who writes their story and transforms their own life, as well as other people's. The Confident Author. From an author with one or a handful of books who doesn't know much about business, to a successful author with a growing business heading towards their first six figure year. The Author-Entrepreneur. And finally, from a tech-phobic, fearful author who worries that AI makes it pointless to create anything and will steal all the jobs, to a confident AI-assisted creative who uses AI tools to enhance and amplify their message and their income. The AI-Assisted Artisan Author. These are four transformations I have been through myself, and with my work as Joanna Penn/The Creative Penn, I want to help you through them as well. So in 2026, I am repositioning myself as part of The Transformation Economy. What does this mean? There is a book out in February, The Transformation Economy by B. Joseph Pine II, who is also the author of The Experience Economy, which drove a lot of the last decade's shift in business models. I have the book on pre-order, but in the meantime, I am doing the following. I will revamp TheCreativePenn.com with ‘transformation' as the key frame and add pathways through my extensive material, rather than just categories of how to do things. I've already added navigation pages for The New Author, The Confident Author, The Author-Entrepreneur, and The AI-Assisted Artisan Author, and I will be adding to those over time. My content is basically the same, as I have always covered these topics, but the framing is now different. The intent is different. The Creative Penn Podcast will lean more heavily into transformation, rather than just information — And will focus on the first three of the categories above, the more creative, mindset and business things.  My Patreon will continue to cover all those things, and that's also where I post most of my AI-specific content, so if you're interested in The AI-Assisted Artisan Author transformation path, come on over to patreon.com/thecreativepenn I have more non-fiction books for authors coming, and lots more ideas now I am leaning into this angle. I'll also continue to do webinars on specific topics in 2026, and also add speaking back in 2027. It's harder to think about transformation when it comes to fiction, but it's also really important since fiction books in particular are highly commodified, and will become even more so with the high production speeds. Yes, all readers have a few favourite authors but most will also read a ton of other books without knowing or caring who the author is. Fiction can be transformational. Reader's aren't buying a ‘book.' They're buying a way to escape, to feel deeply, to experience things they never could in real life. A book can transform a day from ‘meh' into ‘fantastic!' My J.F. Penn fiction is mostly inspired by places, so my stories transport you into an adventure somewhere wonderful, and they all offer a deeper side of transformative contemplation of ‘memento mori' if you choose to read them in that way.  They also have elements of gothic and death culture that I am going to lean into with some merch in 2026, so more of an identity thing than just book sales. I'm not quite sure what this means yet, but no doubt it will emerge. I'll also shape my JFPennBooks.com site into more transformative paths, rather than just genre lists, as part of this shift. My memoir Pilgrimage always reflected a transformation, both reflecting my own midlife shift but I've also heard from many who it has inspired to walk alone, or to travel on pilgrimage themselves. Of course, transformation is not just for our readers or the people we serve as part of our businesses. It's also for us. One of the reasons why we are writers is because this is how we think. This is how we figure out our lives. This is how we get the stories and ideas out of our heads and into the world. Writing and creating are transformative for us, too. That is part of the point, and a great element of why we do this, and why we love this. Which is why I don't really understand the attraction of purely AI-generated books. There's no fun in that for me, and there's no transformation, either. Of course, I LOVE using Chat and Claude and Gemini Thinking models as my brainstorming partners, my research buddies, my marketing assistants, and as daily tools to keep me sparkly. I smiled as I wrote that (and yes, I human-wrote this!) because sparkly is how I feel when I work with these tools. Programmers use the term ‘vibe coding' which is going back and forth and collaborating together, sparking off each other. Perhaps that I am doing is ‘vibe creation.' I feel it as almost an effervescence, a fun experience that has me laughing out loud sometimes. I am more creative, I am more in flow. I am more ‘me' now I can create and think at a speed way faster than ever before. My mind has always worked at speed and my fingers are fast on the keys but working in this way makes me feel like I create in the high performance zone far more often. I intend to lean more into that in 2026 as part of my own transformation (and of course, I share my experiences mainly in the Community at patreon.com/thecreativepenn ). [Note, I pay for access to all models, and currently use ChatGPT 5.2 Thinking, Claude Opus 4.5, and Gemini 3 Pro). So that's the big shift this year, and the idea of the Transformation Economy will underpin everything else in terms of my content. The Creative Penn Podcast and my Patreon Community The Creative Penn Podcast continues in 2026, although I am intending to reduce my interviews to once every two weeks, with my intro and other content in between. We'll see how that goes as I am already finding some fascinating people to talk to!  Thank you for your comments, your pictures, and also for sharing the episodes that resonate with you with the wider community. Your reviews are also super useful wherever you are listening to this, so please leave a review wherever you're listening this as it helps with discovery.  Thanks also to everyone in my Patreon Community, which I really enjoy, especially as we have doubled down on being human through more live office hours. I will do more of those in 2026 and the first one of the year will blearily UK time so Aussies and Kiwis can come. I also share new content almost every week, either an article, a video or an audio episode around writing craft, author business, and lots on different use cases for AI tools.  If you join the Patreon, start on the Collections tab where you will find all the backlist content to explore. It's less than the price of a coffee a month so if you get value from the show, and you want more, come on over and join us at patreon.com/thecreativepenn My Books and Travel Podcast is on hiatus for interviews, since the Masters is taking up the time I would have had for that. However I plan to post some solo episodes in 2026, and I also post travel articles there, like my visits to Gothic cathedrals and city breaks and things like that. Check it out at https://www.booksandtravel.page/blog/  Webinars and live events Along with my Patreon office hours, I'm enjoying the immediacy and energy of live webinars and they work with my focus on transformation, as well as on ‘doubling down on being human' in an age of AI, so I will be doing more this year. The first is on Business for Authors, coming on 10 and 24 January, which is aimed at helping you transform your author business in 2026, or if you're just getting started, then transform into someone who has even a small clue about business in general!Details at TheCreativePenn.com/live and Patrons get 25% off. In terms of live in-person events, it looks like I will be speaking at the Alliance of Independent Authors event at the London Book Fair in March, and I'll attend the Self-Publishing Show Live in June, although I won't be speaking. There might be other things that emerge, but in general, I'm not doing much speaking in 2026 because I need to … Finish my Masters in Death, Religion, and Culture This represents a lot of work as I am doing the course full-time. I should be finished in September, and much of the middle of the year will be focused on a dissertation. I'm planning on doing something around AI and death, so that will no doubt lead into some fiction at a later stage! Talking of fiction … Bones of the Deep — J.F. Penn The Masters is pretty serious, as is academic research and writing in general, and I found myself desperate to write a rollicking fun story over the holiday break between terms. I've talked about this ‘tall-ship' story for a while and now I'm committing to it. Back in 1999, I sailed on the tall-ship Soren Larsen from Fiji to Vanuatu, one of the three trips that shaped my life. It was the first time I'd been to the South Pacific, the first time I sailed blue water (with no land in sight), and I kept a journal and drew maps of the trip. It also helped me a make a decision to leave the UK and I headed for Australia nine months later in early 2000, and ended up being away 11 years in Australia and New Zealand. I came home to visit of course, but only moved back to the UK in 2011, so that trip was memorable and pivotal in many ways and has stuck in my mind. The story is based on that crossing, but of course, as J.F. Penn my imagination turns it into essentially a ‘locked room,' there is no escape out there, especially if the danger comes from the sea. Another strand of the story comes from a recent academic essay for my Masters, when I wrote about the changes in museum ethics around human remains and medical specimens i.e. body parts in jars, and how some remains have been repatriated to the indigenous peoples they were stolen from. I've also talked before about how I love ‘merfolk' horror like Into the Drowning Deep by Mira Grant, All the Murmuring Bones by A.G. Slatter, and Merfolk by Jeremy Bates. These are no smiling fantasy mermaids and mermen. They are predators. What might happen if the remains of a mer-saint were stolen from the deep, and what might happen to the ship that the remains are being transported in, and the people on board?  I'm about a third in, and I am having great fun! It will actually be a thriller, with a supernatural edge, rather than horror, and it is called Bones of the Deep, and it will be out on Kickstarter in April, and everywhere by the summer.  You can check out the Kickstarter pre-launch page with photos from my 1999 trip, the cover for the book, and the sales description at JFPenn.com/bones Add merch to CreativePennBooks.com and JFPennBooks.com I've dipped my toe into merch a number of times and then removed the products, but now I'm clear on my message of transformation, I want to revisit this. My books remain core for both sites, but for CreativePennBooks, I also want to add other products with what are essentially affirmations — ‘Creative,' ‘I am creative, I am an author,' and variants of the poster I have had on my wall for years, ‘Measure your life by what you create.' This is the affirmation I had in my wallet for years! For JFPennBooks, the items will be gothic/memento mori/skull-related. Everything will be print-on-demand. I will not be shipping anything myself, so I'm working with my designer Jane on this and then need to order test samples, and then get them added to the store. Likely mid-year at this rate! How to Write, Publish, and Market Short Stories and Short Story Collections — Joanna Penn I have a draft of this already which I expanded from the transcript of a webinar I did on this topic as part of The Buried and the Drowned campaign. It turns out I've learned a lot about this over the years, and also on how to make a collection, so I will get that out at some point this year. I won't do a Kickstarter for it, but I will do direct sales for at least a month and include a special edition, workbook, and bundles on my store first before putting it wide. I will also human-narrate that audiobook. Other possible books I'm an intuitive creative and discovery writer, so I don't plan out what I will write in a year. The books tend to emerge and then I pick the next one that feels the most important. After the ones above, there are a few candidates. Crown of Thorns, ARKANE thriller #14. Regular readers and listeners will know how much I love religious relics, and it's about time for a big one! I have a trip to Paris planned in the spring, as the Crown of Thorns is at Notre Dame, and I have some other locations to visit. My ARKANE thrillers always emerge from in-person travels, so I am looking forward to that. Maybe late 2026, maybe 2027. AI + religion technothriller/short stories. I already have some ideas sketched out for this and my Masters thesis will be something around AI, religion, and death, so I expect something will emerge from all that study and academic writing. Not sure what, but it will be interesting! The Gothic Cathedral Book. I have tens of thousands of words written, and lots of research and photos and thoughts. But it is still in the creative chaos phase (which I love!) and as yet has not emerged into anything coherent. Perhaps it will in 2026, and the plan is to re-focus on it after my Masters dissertation.  I feel like the Masters study and the academic research process will make this an even better book, But I am holding my plans for this lightly, as it feels like another ‘big' book for me, like my ‘shadow book' (which became Writing the Shadow) and took more than a decade to write! How to be Creative. I have also written bits and bobs on this over many years, but it feels like it is re-emerging as part of my focus on transformation. Probably unlikely for 2026 but now back on the list … Experiment more with AI translation AI-assisted translation has been around for years now in various forms, and I have experimented with some of the services, as well as working with human narrators and editors in different languages, as well as licensing books in translation. But when Amazon launched Kindle Translate in November 2025, it made me think that AI-assisted translation will become a lot more popular in 2026. AI audiobook narration became good enough for many audiobooks in 2025, and it seems like AI-translation will be the same in 2026. Yes, of course, human translation is still the gold standard, as is human narration, and that would be the primary choice for all of us — if it was affordable. But frankly, it's not affordable for most indie authors, and indeed many small publishers. Many books don't get an audiobook edition and most books don't get translated into every language. It costs thousands per book for a human translator, and so it is a premium option. I have only ever made a small profit on the books that I paid for with human translators and it took years, and while I have a few nice translation deals on some books, I'm planning to experiment more with AI translation in 2026. More languages, more markets, more opportunities to reach readers. More on this in the next episode when I'll cover trends for 2026. Ideally outsource more marketing to AI, but do more marketing anyway You have to reach readers somehow, and you have to pay for book marketing with your time and/or your money. Those authors killing it on TikTok pay with their time, and those leaning heavily on ads are paying with money. Most of us do a bit of both. There is no passive income from books, and even a backlist has to be marketed if you want to see any return. But I, like most authors, am not excited about book marketing. I'd rather be working on new books, or thinking about the ramifications of the changes ahead and writing or talking about that in my Patreon Community or here on the podcast. However, my book sales income remains about the same even as I (slowly) produce more books, so I need to do more book marketing in 2026. I said that last year of course, and didn't do much more than I did in 2024, so here I am again promising to do a better job! Every year, I hope to have my “AI book marketing assistant” up and running, and maybe this will be the year it happens. My measure is to be able to upload a book and specify a budget and say, ‘Go market this,' and then the AI will action the marketing, without me having to cobble together workflows between systems. Of course, it will present plans for me to approve but it will do the work itself on the various platforms and monitor and optimize things for me. We have something like that already with Amazon auto-ads, but that is specific to Amazon Advertising and only works with certain books in certain genres. I have auto-ads running for a couple of non-fiction books, but not for any fiction. I'd also ideally like more sales on my direct stores, JFPennBooks.com and CreativePennBooks.com which means a different kind of marketing. Perhaps this will happen through ChatGPT shopping or other AI-assisted e-commerce, which should be increasing in 2026. More on that in trends for the year to come in the next show. Double down on being human, health and travel I have a lot of plans for travel both for book research and also holidays with Jonathan but he has to finish his MBA and then we have some family things that take priority, so I am not sure where or when yet, but it will happen! Paris will definitely happen as part of the research for Crown of Thorns, hopefully in the spring. I've been to Paris many times as it's just across the Channel and we can go by train but it's always wonderful to visit again. Health-wise, I'll continue with powerlifting and weight training twice a week as well as walking every day. It's my happy place! What about you? If you'd like to share your goals for 2026, please add them in the comments below — and remember, I'm a full-time author entrepreneur so my goals are substantial. Don't worry if yours are as simple as ‘Finish the first draft of my book,' as that still takes a lot of work and commitment! All the best for 2026 — let's get into it! The post My 2026 Creative And Business Goals With Joanna Penn first appeared on The Creative Penn.

International markets are having a strong year, with most beating the S&P 500. Meta buys another AI startup. Plus, consumers turn to experiences over products. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We experience the world through what we notice, how we feel, and what we remember. Yet most organizations still focus on products instead of the experiences those products create. Mat Duerden has spent his career studying how experiences work, why they matter, and what turns an ordinary moment into something meaningful or even transformative. In this episode, Dart and Mat discuss what makes an experience meaningful and how reflection deepens its impact. They look at how organizations can build experience playbooks that bring brand, culture, and design together into one coherent story.Mat Duerden is the Department Chair of Experience Design and Management at the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University. He is the co-author of Designing Experiences and a researcher focused on how experiences become memorable, meaningful, and transformative.In this episode, Dart and Mat discuss:- Why attention drives every experience- What makes experiences memorable, meaningful, or transformative?- What designers of work can learn from studying leisure- How core design principles travel across contexts- Why experiences should be orchestrated, not staged.- How hardship can make experiences more powerful- How shared experiences build connection- What Bach and river rafting have in common- How telling the story helps learning stick- And other topics…Mat Duerden is the Department Chair of the Experience Design and Management program at the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University. His research examines how experiences become memorable, meaningful, and transformative, with a focus on reflection, storytelling, and attention. He is the co-author of Designing Experiences, written with Bob Rossman, and teaches experience design across business, education, and leisure contexts. Prior to academia, Mat worked extensively in outdoor recreation and youth development, shaping his interest in how shared experiences create connection.Resources Mentioned:Designing Experiences, by Mat Duerden & Bob Rossman: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Experiences-Columbia-Business-Publishing/dp/0231191685 Nicomachean Ethics, by Aristotle: https://www.amazon.com/Nicomachean-Ethics-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140449493 Experience Economy, by Joe Pine & James Gilmore: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Updated-Joseph-Pine/dp/1422161978Connect with Mat:Faculty Page: https://marriott.byu.edu/directory/details?id=5773 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mat-duerden-8740969/Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Customers defect after they have endured enough doses of la-di-da service. Time is the currency of the Experience Economy. When customers sense the violation of their time, they usually say goodbye to that vendor. It is simply their way to punish bad service. Where is your company in this cause and effect equation? Is it time to revise your service mindset?Support the show

Something big is happening in the creator world: creators are turning their online audiences into real-world destinations. From tours to immersive pop-ups, we're entering the Experience Economy — a shift that resembles the early days of Disney. In this episode, we talk about why creators are moving offline, what it says about the volatility of digital media, and where the creator business model is heading next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As the CEO of Art Basel, Noah Horowitz has made it his mission to ensure that the international art platform is seen, valued, and experienced—far beyond its art-fair roots—as a cultural catalyst and “opportunity accelerator.” Over the past 55 years, beginning with its tight-knit origins in Basel, Switzerland, in 1970, Art Basel has evolved into an international juggernaut, with best-in-class fairs also in Miami Beach, Hong Kong, and Paris—and soon, under Horowitz's leadership, Qatar, with an edition debuting there in February 2026. With more than two decades of experience, and as a tireless advocate and enthusiast for all things art, from artists and galleries to collectors and institutions, Horowitz is exactly the right person for the job.On this episode of Time Sensitive, Horowitz details his ambitious agenda to stretch Art Basel's reach into realms far beyond what would traditionally be considered the art world; shares his long-view perspective on the economics of art; and considers the centuries-old history that, in a roundabout way, helped lead to—and continues to inform and shape—today's art market.Show notes: [05:13] Art Basel Paris[05:13] Art Basel Qatar[05:13] Art Basel Miami Beach[05:13] Art Basel Hong Kong[07:54] Frida Escobedo[10:41] The Art Basel and UBS 2025 Survey of Global Collecting[10:41] Art Basel Awards[21:27] Rei Naito[23:51] Art of the Deal: Contemporary Art in a Global Financial Market (2011)[27:42] Rirkrit Tiravanija[41:18] High Art Lite: The Rise and Fall of Young British Art (2020)[32:42] KAWS[39:04] Princeton Record Exchange[42:18] Frieze[42:52] Hans Ulrich Obrist[42:52] Okwui Enwezor[45:00] Rem Koolhaas[45:57] Kirk Varnedoe[45:57] Pictures of Nothing: Abstract Art Since Pollock (2006)[50:05] Talking Prices: Symbolic Meanings of Prices on the Market for Contemporary Art (2005)[51:49] Clare McAndrew[54:42] The Experience Economy (2019)[58:43] Vincenzo de Bellis[1:03:04] Pérez Art Museum

On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we sit down with business thinker Joe Pine, the legendary co-author of "The Experience Economy," for an in-depth conversation about building a career around unique ideas. Joe Pine shares insights from his early days as a self-described nerd at IBM to his role in shaping the field of mass customization and ultimately designing a business that made him stand out as a category of one. The discussion moves fluidly from personal transformation to the sweeping changes he helped pioneer in business, and what it means to thrive as a creator capitalist in today's rapidly changing world. You're listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let's go.   Finding a Different Path: From Palo Alto to Publishing with Harvard Joe Pine's journey began in Palo Alto during the era of the Arpanet, with technology in his blood and a passion for applied mathematics. Pine joined IBM in 1980, at its peak as arguably the most desirable company for ambitious technologists. Despite a technical start, he found himself increasingly drawn to management, strategy, and the world of business ideas. His trajectory changed dramatically when IBM sent him to MIT for a master's in the management of technology. There, Pine encountered Stan Davis's concept of "mass customization" and felt a lightning bolt of inspiration. Deciding to turn his MIT thesis into a book, Pine landed a contract with Harvard Business School Press. The credential of publishing with Harvard, he notes, was a powerful stamp of intellectual rigor. As he recalls, “Harvard puts its stamp on it, says this is intellectually rigorous. This is a good book. This ought to be out in the world, and we want to publish it.”   Joe Pine on Leaping from Employee to Icon, and Creating the Experience Economy With his first book in hand, Pine found himself at a crossroads. The culture at IBM was changing, and a timely severance package offered him a financial cushion to take a risk. Encouraged by thought leaders he admired, he struck out on his own. Initially, IBM remained his primary client, but Pine quickly built a reputation for leading-edge thinking and collaborating with other luminaries like Don Peppers and Jim Gilmore. The launch of "The Experience Economy" marked a turning point, not just for Pine, but for the business landscape itself. He didn't merely spot a trend or invent a new buzzword; he named and framed a fundamental shift in the economy's fabric. “We didn't identify a fad, but a fundamental change in the fabric of the economy. And if it is a change in the economy, then it is always going to go like that, right? Until something surpasses it and it starts to go down as happened with commodities and goods and services.” The central idea that businesses must stage memorable experiences to remain relevant only grew more compelling over time, with Pine's frameworks gaining more relevance as the digital age accelerated.   Transformation and Identity in the Age of AI As the episode moves to the present, Pine discusses how transformation, both personal and organizational, is ultimately about changing identity. He credits much of his own success to an ability to recognize patterns and develop frameworks to describe and prescribe changes in business. Pine's recent work, including his Substack and newest book, explores not just customer experience but transformation itself, emphasizing that “all transformation is identity change.” The conversation turns to AI and the breaking waves of change it represents for businesses today, paralleling Pine's earlier identification of evolving economic eras. He sees transformation as most successful when companies or individuals are willing to fundamentally shift who they are, not just what they do. “The identity issues there are paramount because who you think you are often stops you from being able to do these things because it would change who you are so much.” Joe Pine believes that in the new world shaped by AI, those who can shed old identities and truly reinvent themselves—much as he did when he left IBM—will be the ones to define the next era. The lesson for aspiring creator capitalists is clear: the greatest value comes not only from unique ideas but also from the courage to turn those ideas into new identities, new categories, and new realities. To hear more from Joe Pine and how he built a business with his Intellectual Capital, download and listen to this episode.    Bio Joe Pine is a renowned author, speaker, and management advisor best known as the co-author of The Experience Economy, a groundbreaking book that reshaped how businesses create value. His work introduced the concept that companies must orchestrate memorable experiences to remain competitive in an evolving marketplace. With deep expertise in innovation and customer experience design, Joe helps organizations around the world architect differentiated experiences that drive growth and loyalty. He has worked with leading global brands across industries from retail and hospitality to healthcare and technology. Joe is also a sought-after keynote speaker and co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP. His insights continue to influence leaders seeking to transform the way they engage customers.   Links Connect with Joe Pine! LinkedIn | Strategic Horizons   We hope you enjoyed this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast / Spotify!

Welcome to episode 215 of Sports Management Podcast. Today's guest is Jordy Leiser - the CEO of Jump, a platform which is redefining the fan experience, from AI-driven personalization to direct-to-consumer fan engagement. We spoke about: Why teams need to own their fan relationships How AI personalizes the sports experience The story behind Jump's $25M raise Working with Alexis Ohanian, Alex Rodriguez & Mark Lore The future of global fan engagement And much more! Time stamps: 00:01 Intro 00:30 Jump - connects the full fan experience 01:23 Partnering with North Carolina Courage and Minnesota Timberwolves 03:18 The meaning of "vertical platform" in sports tech 05:36 How Jump replaces legacy ticketing systems 07:51 Using AI to personalize fan experiences 10:58 Why direct-to-consumer fan relationships matter 15:01 Raising $25M led by Alexis Ohanian 18:23 Global expansion opportunities 20:32 Remote-first company culture & trust 23:19 Jordy's path from finance to sports entrepreneurship 33:47 Resilience through setbacks 39:15 Advice for young professionals in sports 40:35 Outro   Follow Sports Management Podcast on social media Instagram Twitter LinkedIn YouTube www.sportsmanagementpodcast.com

✅ The experience economy is booming, and in this episode, Dawn Farrow, a leading marketing strategist and female founder, reveals how to thrive in it.If you're trying to sell tickets to live events, navigate the world of immersive marketing, or just want to understand how to stand out in the experiential marketing space—this is your roadmap. Dawn has helped market events tied to massive global brands like Squid Game and Friends, and she understands how to turn emotional desire into sold-out shows.She explains why people spend thousands on experiences, not things—and how you can tap into that behavior to increase your ticket sales, create fandom, and grow your event brand.This episode is perfect for:Event promoters struggling with event promotionMarketing teams looking for insights into hybrid eventsEntrepreneurs navigating today's post-COVID demand for live and immersive experiencesFemale founders seeking resilience and strategic growth adviceDawn doesn't just talk theory—she's built and sold a successful agency, now leads On Sale Group, and connects a global network of marketers shaping the future of live experiences.Whether you're producing immersive theater, launching an exhibit, or selling tickets to a festival, this interview gives you the insight and confidence to grow your brand in today's experience economy.

Most organizations think about the design of work in terms of products, services, or customer journeys. But Dave Norton has spent his career arguing that experience design goes much deeper. It is about shaping how people spend their time and, in some cases, their lives. In this episode, Dart talks to Dave about how experience design has evolved, why context matters more than personality, and how AI may finally make transformational design scalable.Dave Norton is the founder of Stone Mantel, an insights consultancy focused on helping companies create meaningful experiences for their customers and employees. A pioneer in experience strategy, he helps organizations across industries rethink the meaning of time, transformation, and context in design.In this episode, Dart and Dave discuss:- The evolution of experience design- Why context matters more than customer psychology- How to design time that is well saved, well spent, and well invested- Why transformation requires discomfort- The power of modes and modularity in designing for focus- How to design whole offerings that get the “whole job” done- Why AI could help scale transformational design- And other topics…Dave Norton is the founder of Stone Mantel, the experience strategy firm built on the belief that meaningful work is less about what you sell and more about how people spend their time. He began working with Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy, in the early 2000s and in 2005 launched Stone Mantel to help organizations design experiences that are “time well spent.” Over the years, he has guided clients across industries, including healthcare, banking, and hospitality, shifting the focus from features to whole offerings and from channels to moments.Resources Mentioned:Stone Mantle: https://www.stonemantel.co/ The Experience Strategist (Substack): https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com/ The Experience Economy, by B. Joseph Pine II and James H. Gilmore: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Competing-Customers-Service/dp/1422161978Connect with Dave:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davenortonphd/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

In this episode of the Volunteer Nation Podcast, Tobi Johnson unpacks how the experience economy is reshaping the way nonprofits engage and retain volunteers. Building on last week's discussion about the evolving volunteer marketplace, Tobi explains why it's no longer enough to simply offer opportunities — today's volunteers expect meaningful, memorable, and transformative experiences. If you're ready to meet modern volunteer expectations and create experiences that truly stand out, this episode is packed with insights you won't want to miss! Full show notes: 184. The Experience Economy – Are Nonprofits Keeping Up? Experience Economy - Episode Highlights [01:37] - Understanding the Experience Economy [05:23] - The Evolution of Economic Value [07:46] - Creating Quality Volunteer Experiences [15:55] - Modern Examples of the Experience Economy [18:04] - The Experience Economy in Nonprofits [18:52] - The Market Metaphor in Volunteerism [19:43] - Understanding Volunteer Motivations [22:59] - Altruism and Empathy in Volunteering [24:07] - Social Connection and Personal Development [28:51] - Value Expression and Psychological Benefits [32:40] - The Experience Economy in Volunteering [34:46] - Episodic and Flexible Volunteering [36:04] - The Ripple Effect of Volunteer Experience Helpful Links Volunteer Management Progress Report  VolunteerPro Impact Lab Volunteer Nation Episode 183 - The New Reality - Volunteers Don't Need You  Volunteer Nation Episode #118: 8 Ways to Make Volunteering Experiences Much Easier Volunteer Nation Episode #147: Volunteer Recruitment Trends from Our New Report  Thanks for listening to this episode of the Volunteer Nation podcast. If you enjoyed it, please be sure to subscribe, rate, and review so we can reach more people like you who want to improve the impact of their good cause. For more tips and notes from the show, check us out at TobiJohnson.com. For any comments or questions, email us at WeCare@VolPro.net.

How do you market the experience of walking through rooms of illusion that flip reality on its head? In this episode, Stephanie Postles chats with Andy Levey, the mastermind CMO behind the Museum of Illusions, to discover how to craft unforgettable moments that captivate audiences. Learn how to apply these strategies to market brands that sell experiences - from local business, SaaS, B2B, and more. Key Moments:00:00 Andy Levey Turns Wonder Into Marketing Strategy02:00 Inside the World's Most Photographed Museum04:00 From Wall Street to Vegas Viral Experiences07:30 Building the Biggest Brand No One's Heard Of09:30 Cracking the Local Playbook for Global Growth14:14 Data and Science Behind Going Viral16:44 Marketing FOMO With Radio and Influencers19:00 Winning Local Search and the AI-Discoverability Game24:00 Bringing Emotion Back to B2B Marketing27:23 How to Make Customers Feel Your Product33:43 Lessons from Failed Launches38:10 Using AI to Scale Creative, Not Replace It45:00 The Best Marketing Campaigns51:00 Marketing Trends Outro Mission.org is a media studio producing content alongside world-class clients. Learn more at mission.org. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Populous Principal Matthew Breest shares how art, culture, community, and technology are shaping next-generation stadiums, arenas, and mixed-use districts — from Denver's record-setting women's soccer stadium to Greeley's new arena development. For show notes and more: https://ninedotarts.com/podcast-from-isolated-arenas-to-community-anchors/ 

Our guest today is Shareef Mahdavi.    Shareef Mahdavi created the PX90 Practice Transformation program as the latest expression of his three-decade career helping doctors, practices, and companies in elective, self-pay medicine succeed by focusing on patient experience.   PX Ninety is an immersive, action-driven program that helps healthcare professionals elevate their practice by focusing on patient experience and team performance. Led by Shareef Mahdavi, a patient experience expert and author of Beyond Bedside Manner, PX Ninety offers a 12-week roadmap for practice transformation. Each week, participants see a video lessons, engage with exercises, and build on examples provided with ideas specific to your practice.  By the end of 90 days, your practice will have undergone a significant transformation in patient satisfaction, team cohesion, and operational efficiency.   His work spans the refractive surgery, aesthetics, and dental industries—guiding over 60 medical product launches and serving as a trusted advisor to both private practices and leading device manufacturers.   LEARN MORE AND CONNECT WITH SHAREEF, HIS BOOK AND PROGRAM(S)   Visit: https://pxmovement.com/px90-program/

單純的商品和服務已經不夠。顧客現在想要的是體驗，而且願意為此付費。這是一項全新的挑戰，只有那些能真正吸引顧客沉浸其中的企業，才能在這個新經濟時代脫穎而出。 -- Hosting provided by SoundOn

Between 250,000-300,000 tourists land on the island every year, 2,500 a day in summer, and yet it still feels authentic, alive, and deeply Irish. In this episode, we ask: how do remote places like Inishmore thrive in today's economy, while once-wealthy regions like France's Île de Ré struggle with emptying out? We dig into the wild history of cod and salt (the currency of empires), why Ireland salted beef instead of fish, and how the Aran Islands are now punching above their weight in the global experience economy. From lobster-pot pubs to the death of distance, we explore what makes people pay not just for goods and services, but for memory, tribe, and authenticity. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, we're talking Millennials and Gen Z versus Gen X and Baby Boomers. The financial priorities of each generation are WILDLY different! We discuss why younger generations desire experiences, from international trips to concerts, and how social media fuels these desires. Plus, get ready for some real talk as we share personal stories from raising our own almost Millennial and Gen Z daughters, tackling the struggle of living in the now while still planning for tomorrow. This episode is your guide to bridging the generational gap, whether you're a parent, a young adult, or just curious about how to enjoy life today AND build a solid future. As our podcast title states, we believe people can have more than one thing at a time.  Tune in to hear our take on the changing spending climate.       Our website: www.forbetterandworth.com Get Ericka's book, Naked and Unashamed: 10 Money Conversations Every Couple Must Have Check out our local TV spotlight Connect with us: Instagram: @forbetterandworth YouTube: @forbetterandworth Ericka: @erickayoungofficial Chris: @1cbyoung  

We've well and truly kicked off season 7 in style as we welcome our first guest onto the show - IAAPA Board Chairman, Massimiliano Freddi. In this episode, Paul sits down with Massimiliano Freddi, the first Italian to ever hold the role of IAAPA Chairman in the association's 107-year history. From his early dream of running a theme park to founding Wonderwood and shaping Italy's unique attractions landscape, Massi shares how passion, storytelling, and a people-first mindset continue to drive his vision for the industry. Skip The Queue is back for Season 7 and we're announcing some big changes! Get ready for new hosts, a fresh new look, weekly content and find out where you can catch us live at events to be part of the action.Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn, or Bluesky for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 24th September 2025. The winner will be contacted via LinkedIn or Bluesky. Show references:  https://iaapa.org/https://www.linkedin.com/in/freddi/Massimiliano Freddi  a leading figure in the amusement and entertainment industry, has been appointed president of the steering committee of IAAPA (International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions, the leading international association for attractions and theme parks) for 2025. This is the first time since the foundation of the World Association of Attractions (1918) that this position has been entrusted to an Italian.The appointment underscores his extensive experience and significant contribution to the global industry. Freddi brings a wealth of experience gained at some of the industry's most prominent companies. His career began in marketing and press office for the Italian market at Disneyland Paris. He subsequently joined Leolandia.A visionary entrepreneur, in 2018, Massimiliano Freddi founded Wonderwood, an adventure and amusement park for all ages, of which he is currently CEO, in his hometown of Trarego Viggiona, in the Verbano-Cusio-Ossola region on Lake Maggiore. This growing business has redeveloped several local facilities and provided employment to several young residents of the small towns in the area. His passion for the sector also extends to academia. Since 2016, he has been a member of the coaching staff of Seth Godin's Altmba and is a professor of marketing and experience design at IULM University in Milan. At the same university, where Italy's first course in theme park and attraction management was introduced, he teaches subjects such as consumer experience, marketing, and soft skills as an adjunct professor. Freddi was also one of the original founders of Parksmania, the first newspaper dedicated to amusement parks.Freddi will continue to bring his innovative vision and deep industry knowledge to the global association, helping shape the future of attractions internationally. Regarding Italy, he commented that he sees great potential and wants to help realise it. Transcriptions:  Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue, the podcast about the world's best visitor attractions and the people that work in them. I'm Paul Marden, along with my co-hosts Andy Povey and Sinead Kimberley, I spend my days working with ambitious attractions like theme parks, museums, galleries, and science centres to help them to attract more guests. Paul Marden: Today on Skip the Queue, I'm joined by someone who has been shaping the attractions industry in truly remarkable ways. Massimiliano Freddi is the first Italian ever to hold the role of chairman in IAAPA's 107-year history. A milestone that not only celebrates his career, but also shines a light on Italy's growing influence in the global attractions landscape. Massimiliano has worn many hats across his journey, from fulfilling his childhood dream of becoming a Theme Park Managing Director at just 28, where he grew guest numbers from 300,000 to over 800,000, to founding his own destinations like Wonderwood on Lake Maggiore and Wonderwood Spina Verde, overlooking Lake Como. Along the way, he's pioneered inclusive and eco-conscious practices, championing the power of storytelling and shown how attractions can thrive by creating meaningful experiences for every guest.Paul Marden: Beyond his leadership roles, Massimiliano is also a Professor of Marketing and Experience Design at IULM University in Milan, where he's passionate about nurturing the next generation of talent in our sector. Often described as both a dreamer and a doer, he brings together vision and practicality in a way that continues to inspire operators around the world.Paul Marden: Massimilliano, welcome to the show. It really is a pleasure to have you with us. We always start Skip the Queue and the kickoff of season seven, no less, is going to be no different. We always start with an icebreaker question. And I'm thinking back to, we're just back off of our summer holidays, aren't we? For your perfect holiday, would it start with planes, trains or driving.Massimiliano Freddi: Oh, that's a beautiful question. By the way, congratulations because you've pronounced Massimiliano in a very correct way. So that's unusual. I have a complicated name. I know, I know.Massimiliano Freddi: Hey, I would say train. Train is really, really part of the way that I love to travel with. And unfortunately, too often it happens by car, which I like a little bit less. I get dizzy, you know, and stuff. Train is my ultimate, ultimate way to travel.Paul Marden: I did a sleeper train to Scotland a couple of years ago, and it was amazing. I absolutely loved it. And what's brilliant is there's more of those sleeper trains hitting Europe, aren't there now? So there really is very few excuses for us not to be holidaying with the start with some elegant sleeper train. My only disappointment was that there was no murder on the train, so I couldn't have an Agatha Christie style novel themed around my train  journey, but uh, you know.Massimiliano Freddi: I mean, I mean, it could have been the Hogwarts Express, but apparently, it doesn't run every day, so.Paul Marden: That would be pretty cool as well. I've just come back from Edinburgh, actually, and we saw, you know, the viaduct where the train goes to Hogwarts, and completely unplanned, there was a steam train that went over the bridge whilst we were there. It was amazing.Massimiliano Freddi: Happy go lucky.Paul Marden: Yeah. So enough of my holidays. Let's kick off talking about you and IAAPA. What can international markets learn from attractions in Italy? Tell us a little bit about the attractions landscape over there in Italy at the moment.Massimiliano Freddi: Yes. So let's say that the attraction landscape is very similar, somehow, to how the restaurants or the retail landscape has always been, which means a lot of mom and pop stores. And I think that what people who travel to Italy love is to find something that is one of a kind that you can find only in Italy. I have a deep respect for Starbucks, but I'm always... questioning myself, you know, when somebody comes to Italy, do they really want to find Starbucks? Is this a real thing? So when it comes to parks and attractions, Italy has not faced a big concentration in players like it has happened in other countries. Of course, some big players are there. Parques Reunidos owns Mirabilandia, which is the second most important Italian park. And the most important Italian park is Gardaland, owned by Merlin Entertainment. Then we have a few other groups. Owning and operating some of the facilities, but let's say that, out of 250 parks between—or, you said, attractions— that's very correct now, if we talk about attractions, now the number is endless, because where is the border?Paul Marden: What is an attraction? Yeah, that's a big philosophical question.Massimiliano Freddi: Okay, okay, so let's say that, once upon a time, we used to count parks. So when we talk about parks, we have roughly 250 parks in Italy, and most of them are tiny, tiny, tiny, and they are independently owned. That's my case. I own and operate two parks right now, and I'm about to open, a third location that will be an indoor one this November. And so, yes, I think that what what others can learn from Italy i think is to keep this respect for your roots and to make sure that you don't make every attraction look like another one, but you kind of keep it, you know, different.Massimiliano Freddi: And so it's a matter of the mix of how people can have fun and get entertained. But it's really also about retail and about food and about shows and festivals and you name it, you know. So there are these places that we see on Instagram and immediately we say, oh, that's, I mean, when I see a picture of the Empire State Building or of the Tower Bridge. I know immediately where it belongs to. And so I think that, with attractions, we need to think in the future always about this. Guests coming to visit us, they want to have the ultimate experience and they want to have something that's different from anything they've done before. So this is the responsibility we have.Paul Marden: And a big one it is. Let's talk a little bit about the experience economy. And especially when we think about, you know, beyond the parks, there's this... massive ecosystem around the outside of different ways that people can enjoy themselves. What does that experience economy mean to you, especially in Italy?Massimiliano Freddi: The experience economy, first of all, it truly matters to me, the book. Because in 1999, it was once upon a time, it was really difficult to find literature and scientific literature on the leisure industry. And so I think that at that time, we thought that everybody could take inspiration from the attractions industry. And it has happened because right now. Yes, definitely. You know, food is experience and travel is experience and lodging is experience. You name it, you name it. You know, even there is also a funeral house in Italy, which has become very famous because they are really based on the experience they will give, you know, not to the people who passed away, unfortunately, you know, but the people remain. So I think that it's very hard now to find an industry that doesn't think, that we are in the experience economy and that everything should be experienced and experiential. And so I think that when I go back to my example, I think that we as attractions, we need to be even more wise in how we choose to present ourselves and what we cater to our guests.Massimiliano Freddi: Because of course, we need to raise the bar. So right now, we know that some access... And some services to our attractions have become better with technology. But still, we are, you know, long lines sometimes. And we feel we are paying too much for what we are getting back.Massimiliano Freddi: I would say that in the end, experience economy starts with people and ends with people. And so we need to be people-centric. And only like this, we can be truly experiential. I don't think that an experience is about technology.  It's always, always about people.Paul Marden: Absolutely. I wonder as well, I'm always struck by this industry, how close we are, how we collaborate with one another. And really, the competition aren't the other parks or attractions. The competition is getting people out and doing something. There are so many things at home that could keep you at home, getting you out and about and visiting places and enjoying those experiences. I wonder whether collaboration is the answer to this.Massimiliano Freddi: I think you nailed it because it's crucial. Everybody who has not been working for this industry, when they enter the industry, because they might change jobs, everybody is so surprised that we collaborate so heavily. And I think that a key to this success has always been this big collaboration. I have almost always in my career been part of smaller facilities. And to me, IAAPA and the associations were, it's been crucial, you know, because you are alone. Very, very often your facility is in the middle of nowhere. No matter if you're part of a big group, because even big groups have facilities in the middle of nowhere, but for family-owned and operated attractions, that's almost the golden rule.Massimiliano Freddi: And so there are so many days in your life, in your career, in your profession, where you would benefit strongly from talking to somebody else who's been through something like you before and who's found a different solution and who can open up your eyes. So I think that's the beauty of our industries is getting together. Again, if we don't get together, how can we make people get together?Paul Marden: Yeah, I'm very excited about getting together because I've got my first IAAPA in Barcelona coming up. And I'm very excited about what this is going to be like.Massimiliano Freddi: Oh, you will be blown away.Paul Marden:  I can't wait. I absolutely can't wait. Now, look. Someone has once described you as a dreamer and a doer. One of your dreams was to be managing director of a theme park. Where did that inspiration come from?Massimiliano Freddi: So it comes from a terrible childhood. And so it comes from the fact that, yeah, the world around me when I was a kid was not a positive world. And my family had a lot of troubles. And I'm an orphan from the side of my mother. I mean, I went through several things. And so I think that the attractions industry, to me, it really meant this place that's always happy and where grownups can really take great care of kids and kids at heart.Massimiliano Freddi: So I think that my passion came out of that. Now, dreaming and doing, of course, we all have as a big myth and as a reference, Walt Disney himself, and he was the guy who first said, 'Dreamers and doers' talking about, what enterprises, so his imagineers. I think that whenever I see something, I want to say something. Everybody who knows me knows pretty well. But it means that I love to see the world in a constant improvement. So, if I check in at a hotel and I see that there is something in there that, you know, it even doesn't impact me. But with a small step, they could make it better and fix it. I just share it and I share it, you know, wherever I am. And so I think that maybe this was a bit of my secret weapon because I got involved in several things. I think because I'm curious and maybe because I'm generous in sharing.Massimiliano Freddi: And I don't know if there is a secret there. There is just that in the moment in which you accept yourself the way you are and you acknowledge that you have some talents, and you don't have some others, and some skills you can get better, some others no way—okay. I could never never be an attorney, I could never do a lot of jobs on the planet, but now I know, at the age of 44, that I know what I'm good at, and even if I'm good at that, I want to constantly improve. So I think that maybe the support that I could bring to the table to the companies I've worked for, to the associations, to my own business, and so on, it's always been this obsession with constant improvement every day.Paul Marden: I think it takes a certain vulnerability, doesn't it? To spot something that you think can be improved and to offer a suggestion. And I think it's so valuable. I was at an attraction recently and I got the email at the end of the day, saying, 'How was it?' Please leave us a review. I went to click it and it didn't work. I knew the head of marketing, so I just pinged him off a quick email that just said, 'Oh, I had such a brilliant time but I couldn't leave you a review. I wanted to give you a brilliant review, but I couldn't do it because it didn't work. And that led them to go and look at all of their outbound emails, and none of them were working properly. But you know, you could walk by and just leave that alone. But I can't do it. However, it is sometimes does make you feel really awkward, couldn't you? But when I get great services in a restaurant, when somebody looks after me while at an attraction, I want to tell them how good it was, and if I can see something they can do better, I want to tell them what they could do.Massimiliano Freddi:  Totally, totally. And I'm so much on the same page. I was about to say that it's equally important to call people out when they're doing well.Paul Marden: Yeah.Massimiliano Freddi: So to make sure that they are aware. And sometimes, you know, to say there was one day where I travelled during a bank holiday, and I arrived at the entire bank holiday, and I arrived to the airport, and I decided I wanted to thank each and every employee that I would meet because they were there that day. I mean. We got used that Sundays are no longer Sundays, but the bank holidays, these are the moments in which you spend time with your family and with your kids and so on. And if you're there and you're working, I mean, it's good that somebody sees you and tells you, 'Hey, thank you because you're working even today, you know?' And you can tell how everybody gets surprised. So I think that we learn so much more by positive reinforcement.Massimiliano Freddi: And so how important it is also to tell attractions, facilities, managers, CEOs. I mean, CEOs, they are so used to just getting... I can't use swear words. Yes, you can. Under those kind of storms, you know, all the time, all the time. And so when a CEO does something good, come on, let's tell her.Paul Marden: Yeah, it's a really lonely job. And all you get is... is the spankings and the tellings off. Isn't it? So when they get it right, they definitely need a pat on the back because they're not going to get it. They're not going to get it. So I can't believe this. At the age of 28, you made your dream come true and you were managing director of a theme park in Italy for Minitalia, which became Leolandia, in this role you took guest numbers from 300, 000 guests a year to over 800,000.Paul Marden: Tell us that story. How do you so dramatically increase footfall at the attraction?Massimiliano Freddi: I don't think it was me. I think it was a great teamwork because it's a great teamwork, you know, and you can grow this much. If your operation is working very well, if your safety is right on spot, if the park is clean, you know, and so on. I can tell you one thing that when we were at the basic level, so at the very beginning, of course, we couldn't afford to buy big attractions or too heavily themed. And we needed really, I remember that the first Halloween, we had a 10K budget, 10,000 euro budget for a whole month of Halloween. Okay, so we would go to the do-it-yourself stores and buy brooms and build everything. I mean, that was a magical moment because it created the capability of the team to envision that, if you want, you can do with the things you have. And of course, with a huge budget, you can do fantastic things.Massimiliano Freddi: But sometimes, you know, this helps. So in that moment... TripAdvisor was a true success still. We're talking about 20 years ago. So TripAdvisor was kind of the reference. That's even before Google Maps and all that. So I remember that I did an analysis and I understood that every restaurant or park who had over 4. 5 out of 5 was growing. And having 4 out of 5 was not enough. Now we call it NPS, we call it a different way. But there, in this practical way, so I remember this moment with my team saying, 'Hey, we need to be obsessed with getting five stars.' And this is the point. So what can we do? First of all, we can have the cleanest toilets on earth. Let's make sure that the smell is good, they are super clean, and so on. Because people, that's a level of service. Of course, this is not a driver of visit, but this is a driver of satisfaction. And in the same way, let's start to work with better suppliers when it comes to food and beverage.Massimiliano Freddi: Let's start to make things more comfortable. So I think that this was the first thing. The second aspect, again, it's very much linked to IAAPA because I think that attending the show every year and knowing the people. At that time, Jakob Wahl, he used to be one of the employees of IAAPA in Brussels. I don't think he was a manager at the time yet. He was in charge of keeping relationships with members. So I reached out to him. We are the same age. I reached out to him and I said, 'Hey, I would love to visit a few facilities in other countries because I need to get fresh ideas.' It was a very delicate moment. We came out of two bad seasons due to bad weather. Because then you know, you don't go from here to here as a straight line, but always as this roller coaster. And in a moment you think, 'Oh, I made it.' There's a dip.Paul Marden: Yeah.Massimiliano Freddi: You can never sleep. And so he put me in contact with several facilities. I visited some in Belgium, in the Netherlands, and in the UK. And in the UK, I visited this, at that time, small park still called Paulton's Park. You might know that. I remember it was a weekday with bad weather and the parking lot was packed. And I was like, 'How comes?' Kids are not at school today. What is the point? I enter the park. The park is, yeah, not so crowded. So I really suspect that they are, you know, keeping the people all shut down together in a place. I don't know. I don't know what the point was. And then I enter the Peppa Pig's World.Massimiliano Freddi: And it blows my mind. And again, what blows my mind is that it didn't have any huge attraction. But it had that feeling. And people were just so happy. It was magic. Little kids there with their families, a lot of strollers all over the place, traffic jams due to strollers. And so I came back and I said, 'Hey, we need to get Peppa Pig.' And I remember that the team was like, 'It can't happen.' It has happened. In the end, we were the second park in the world after Paulton's Park to get Peppa. And that reshaped the entire strategy of the park we had at that time, turning it into what we wanted to achieve, is to become the best park for the kids under the age of 10 in Southern Europe. And best means really the best, rated from the bottom of the heart. And so this is what has happened. So I think that, you know, before Leolandia, I had worked for Disneyland Paris and I'm a big Disney fan. So that was kind of the school I had attended and I just had to apply. The theory that I've learned, I had to apply it, and I had a fantastic team and the resources to do that.Paul Marden: Amazing. Now, fast forward to 2018, and you've taken the step from MD to founder and founded Wonderwood on Lake Maggiore. Now, let's test my Italian. You've also founded Wonderwood Spina Verde. Massimiliano Freddi: I'm speechless. I can't correct anything.Paul Marden: Wonderful. Overlooking Lake Como, both of which, by the way, were... So I've been to Maggiore and Lake Como for my honeymoon. So a beautiful, beautiful place. And you've put two parks there. How has that been?Massimiliano Freddi:  It has been crazy. So I remember that the first year, and I mean, we created the company at the end of 2018. We've opened our gates in the summer of 2019. Now, if we all remember what has happened at the beginning of 2020.Paul Marden: Yeah.Massimiliano Freddi: Okay, so perfect timing. Now, I can tell you that the first season, every day, I would literally cry, but for real.Massimilliano Freddi: I was exhausted. My husband was exhausted. We thought that this was a nightmare, the worst possible nightmare. And if somebody had knocked on my door and asked me, 'Hey, could I just take it over?' I don't give you a penny. I will just take home the loans. I would have said yes. And that's because, of course, every project is over budget. Of course. No matter. No matter.Massimiliano Freddi: And when it's a family company and you don't have the money because you've contracted several loans and so on, it makes it super, super difficult. So in that moment, my call for action was because the possibility of Lake Maggiore was in the town where I spent every summer as a kid. So it was a love story. And I wanted to give back to the community. I wanted to do something in the nature that would inspire kids to hike more. To become more active and just not only to stay in front of a screen, but to do something different. So that came out of this kind of dream. And so it was a nightmare. It was a nightmare at the very beginning. Then COVID hit and we were very lucky, of course, because we didn't lose anyone from our families and friends. So I am very thankful for that. And at the same time, it gave us the possibility to stop for a second, rewind, and refine our strategy.Massimiliano Freddi: Because we had just closed the park in, I mean, the week before Christmas, and we were supposed to reopen in less than three months, but we were exhausted. So I'm telling this story because usually it's so nice to tell that the triumphs, you know, and say, 'Hey, it's been fantastic.' Yeah, we nailed it. We had, no, we made 200 mistakes.Massimiliano Freddi: And we paid for all the mistakes. So I think that in that moment, yeah, we were struggling at the beginning. We were reflecting in the middle part. And then three years ago, two to three years ago, I woke up one morning and I understood that I really loved what I was doing. And it had changed. It had changed. And seeing so many families happy and so many people visiting and seeing... How many young professionals or students started to work with us and then you see them leaping? I think that this is the most beautiful thing on earth. It's very empowering. So right now I'm in this situation where I am so grateful for this entire six years, even if they started in a way that was very, very heavy. But, you know, the Latins used to say 'per aspera ad astra.' It means... 'towards the stars through the asperities.' And so we need to go through that thing, that tunnel.Paul Marden: Absolutely. Now, as if founding your own parks wasn't enough, you also mix your time as a professor at the university. I can hear from what you were talking about, about bringing the young professionals into the park, that there's an element to you of apprenticeship almost, of teaching that next cohort of people that are going to come and take over the world.Paul Marden: How exciting is that for you to be able to mix that in at the university?Massimiliano Freddi: It's fantastic. It's fantastic. And again, it came out of passion. It came out. I didn't do a PhD after my university. My career wasn't supposed to be the academic one. And I didn't trust I would be able to do that. And then I got called for a lecture, then two lectures, and three lectures. And then, right now, I have several courses at university.Massimiliano Freddi: There's a point. The point is that, if we meet between our age of 14, 14, 15, until our 25, and if we narrow it down, it's between maybe 16 and 22, this is the moment in which it's more important to meet some mentors. And most of us don't meet mentors. They meet nice people around them, giving them very nice advice based on their experience and not seeing the talents they have in front of them. And in several cases, we are scared. We think that we are not enough. And so I really think that it's such a huge privilege for me to be able to be at university and to meet so many hundreds of students every year and to try to make my small impact so that, first of all, they can believe in themselves and they can believe that the world can be a better place, even if right now it's kind of a tough moment. But from tough moments, again, we can learn things.Massimiliano Freddi: Even at IAAPA, one of the things that I really am passionate more about is what are the spaces we can create for young professionals and students. So I want to give two very short examples. The IAAPA Foundation has evolved a lot over the last few years. We were able to collect so many more donations.Massimiliano Freddi: And now, this year, it will be a record-breaking year when it comes to scholarships to which students can apply in universities around the globe. So I think that's... But to me and to all of us in the board of the IAAPA Foundation, that's like the starting point. We are here celebrating because it's a big achievement and then we look each other in the eyes and say, 'Okay, now what's next?' Now, how can we make sure that the impact is even bigger? And if we go on the side of IAAPA, I think we are very... We pay a lot of attention to make sure that the membership fees are very low for the people entering. The word of leisure. Just a few weeks ago, it got launched on the IAAPA job board that whoever has a company and wants to post an internship, that's free to post. So that, you know, there could be thousands of internships available for students.Massimiliano Freddi: Of course, as a big association, we are used to talk to members and maybe older members because we visit facilities and we visit manufacturers and we need to deal with safety and stuff. But students and young professionals are not on the back of my head. They are like near and dear to my heart. And so my real question is: when this year ends in a couple of months, how can I dedicate myself even more to contribute to young people? Because I think that they are making a change. They will make a change. And we are learning so much from them because the work we are leaving you and me right now. I have bad news. It's no longer our world. We don't have the code to decode that. So we don't have the keys. We can just support people that are better than us and make sure that they can live, that they can teach, that they can learn.  That's a bit of what I see.Paul Marden: I completely agree with you. I think it's interesting because you talk about what you're giving, but you're also getting something back. This is not entirely altruistic, is it? The support that you're giving for these young people and early career professionals, you're getting something back, enriching yourself and learning new things from them.Massimiliano Freddi: Always, always. And I think that, you know, I don't always teach. Market leisure marketing and stuff— you know, I teach marketing at a at a Master's Degree in Management of Beauty and Wellness, total different industry, you know, food and wine. As I was telling, but what I bring home every time is how much young people need to feel seen and, and this is truly important because if we create for them not a safe zone, because of course we want them to get messy. We want them to take risks, but they need to feel safe as humans and they need to feel safe as seen. And so I appreciate a lot this because then the energy that I... And you know, when we talk about IAAPA, we have so many ambassadors that have been contributing to the IAAPA trade shows and events all over the globe. We have young people joining the committees.Massimiliano Freddi: Right now, there are a few, more than a few young professional task forces around the globe that are really helping us, old people, to understand what they need. So I think that we are at the very beginning. And if I could say a dream out loud, I wish that IAAPA in five or ten years, maybe in five years, can multiply the number of young engaged people in the association by 100. 10 is not enough. 20 is by 100. We need to make an impact. And I think we want to make an impact. So hopefully.Paul Marden: Well, there's an ambition for you. And I think every... worthwhile project— every it always starts with that kind of ambitious goal— at the very beginning of it you need to be driven by that  hundred times impact not the 10 times impact we we always like to finish our interviews with a book recommendation, fiction, non-fiction, industry-related or not, give us a view uh into your reading habits, okay, so can I mention more than one book? You bankrupt me because I always offer the book recommendation as a prize for people, but you can have more than one.Massimiliano Freddi: Okay. Okay. Thank you because I'm a big reader. So the first author that I would love to mention is J. K. Rowling because Harry Potter is not just a story of a kid or of magic, but it's a story of a woman who was a bit desperate. And then... She followed what she was feeling. She allowed her emotions to flow. And she has created a masterpiece. And she has impacted us all, you know, no matter business-related, non-business-related, and so on. So I think that, to read again, the first Harry Potter book, it's very important because it brings us back to some reason why, you know, and to some things. The second book that I would love to mention is a book written by Seth Godin. I have had the privilege to work for Seth for several years.Paul Marden: Really?Massimiliano Freddi: And yeah, he's an amazing guy. He's an amazing guy. And come on, he's such a generous person and he's amazing.Massimiliano Freddi: I don't have any other words that's amazing. He wrote a book maybe 10 years ago, 15 years ago called Linchpin. And Linchpin is not his most famous book, but it's the book that changed my life because it really nudges you. In a gentle and not so gentle way sometimes. No, I'm saying in a gentle way. It nudges you to don't set for what you have, but to see your inner talents and to innovate and to be creative, be generous, and so on. So, Linchpin to me is the book that changed it all for me. So, I think that everybody, young, less young, everybody should read once in a lifetime.Paul Marden: I feel like I need to go and read this because that is one Seth Godin book I have not read. So there we go. Listeners, if you would like a copy of Linchpin, then the first person that heads over to LinkedIn and reposts our show notice and says, 'I want Massimiliano's book' and can spell Massimiliano correctly, will have a copy of the book sent to them. We've got IAAPA Europe taking place next week in Barcelona.Paul Marden: And we have a very special Skip the Queue announcement. We are going to be hitting the show floor on a daily basis. We are going to go live for daily episodes of Skip the Queue from the show floor. We're going to be talking to operators about what their challenges are like. Finding out what new supplier announcements are coming out. And the Skip the Queue team is going to be feverishly working away. We'll be recording during the day and Steve and Wenalyn will be editing and producing through the night, ready to post the show the following morning. So I'm very excited about that.Massimiliano Freddi: And I think we are super excited to have you guys on the trade show floor. And I recommend... Of course, visiting it, making the most out of it, and don't underestimate the fantastic education sessions that take place. There is a strong lineup of speakers that will impact the way that the industry will be in a few years. So, great opportunity.Paul Marden:  How's that for a trailer? That sounds amazing. Massimilliano, it really has been a pleasure to talk to you.Massimiliano Freddi: Thank you so much, Paul, for me as well. And see you in Barcelona.Paul Marden: Yes, how exciting. Looking forward to it.Paul Marden: Remember, if you'd like a copy of today's book, head over to LinkedIn and repost our show notice saying, 'I want a copy of Massimiliano's book.' If you've enjoyed this episode, please leave a review on your podcasting platform. It really helps people to find the show. If you didn't enjoy it, or you've got ideas about how we could improve the show, then let us know at hello@skipthequeue.fm. My thanks to Massimiliano and his team at IAAPA for their help with this episode. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, the digital agency that creates amazing websites for ambitious visitor attractions. This episode was written by Emily Burrows, produced by Wenalyn Dionaldo and edited by Steve Folland. To Skip the Queue team, also includes Sami Entwistle, Sinead Kimberley, Claire Furnival, and Andy Povey. The 2025 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsTake the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

In a recent HBR article, Yang Li shares his theory for how Pop Mart won young customers.  But we think that fragmented attention is not what Pop Mart has mastered. Instead, they have mastered markets within/situational markets. In this conversation, the speakers delve into emphasizing the importance of customer engagement and customization. They discuss Pop Mart's innovative strategies for capturing consumer attention and fostering a sense of belonging among customers. The dialogue also explores the evolution of market segmentation, the significance of creating immersive experiences, and the need for brands to prioritize experience over traditional branding methods.  Other brands discussed include Ffern, Lego, and Cracker Jacks.  Takeaways Attention is one of the three currencies of the experience economy. It's not an economy.  Pop Mart's success only partially lies in addressing fragmented consumer attention. Demographics are not effective for understanding individual consumers. Brands must cultivate surprise and delight and a sense of belonging. Timeless principles of experience design are still relevant today. Fusing real and virtual experiences can enhance customer engagement. Brands should focus on creating immersive experiences at home. The experience is more important than the brand itself. Packaged goods companies should prioritize customer experience in their strategies. Chapters 00:00 Understanding the Experience Economy 02:54 Pop Mart's Success in the Market 05:50 The Evolution of Market Segmentation 08:57 Creating Loyalty and Belonging 11:58 The Role of Surprise and Anticipation 15:03 Fusing Real and Virtual Experiences 17:57 Lessons from Pop Mart for Other Brands   Read more https://hbr.org/2025/07/how-pop-mart-won-young-customers-in-a-fragmented-attention-economy Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com  

In The New York Times article written by Daniel Currell, the author/consultant contents that Disney's tiered system is designed to target affluent guests, not middle class people. In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Joe Pine, Dave Norton, and Aransas Savas discuss the article about Disney's transformation from an egalitarian experience to a tiered system. They explore the implications of this shift on the middle class, the increasing value placed on experiences, and the desire for connection among visitors. The conversation delves into the role of services, time value, and the exclusivity of certain experiences, ultimately addressing the future of Disney and its expansion opportunities. This episode is brought to you by The Cargo Agency and Feedback Now. Takeaways Disney has shifted from an egalitarian mindset to a tiered system. The value of experiences has increased significantly over the years. Wealth impacts the amount of time one can spend enjoying experiences. Visitors seek connective experiences with loved ones. Services play a crucial role in enhancing the overall experience. Having multiple channels is a key strategy for growth. Club 33 represents the only exclusive experience in the park. Time is a critical currency in the experience economy. Disney's pricing strategy reflects the value of experiences. The future of Disney may involve expansion and innovation.  Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Economy 00:26 Disney's Shift from Egalitarianism 01:44 The Value of Experience and Pricing 05:21 The Impact of Wealth on Experience 06:47 The Desire for Connection in Experiences 09:54 The Role of Services in Enhancing Experiences 12:03 Gamification and the Disney Ecosystem 15:47 The Exclusivity of Club 33 18:03 Time as a Currency in Experiences 21:18 The Future of Disney and Expansion Ideas Read more https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/28/opinion/disney-world-economy-middle-class-rich.html?unlocked_article_code=1.iU8.Yl9x.HdJppkkpqYcr&smid=url-share Podcast Sponsors: Learn how to inspire advocacy https://www.thecargoagency.com Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

Today's episode is a special in English with Rob Abasolo, who is both a very experienced short-term real estate investor and mentor. Rob is a former Bigger Pockets Podcast host and loves to share his experiences and tips through videos, blog posts and more. You can follow Rob on YouTube as Robuilt and his website. Arbejder du i ejendoms- og byggebranchen kan du finde både investeringsmuligheder og leads i form af ejendomme, projekter og udbud gennem Resights. Opret en gratis prøveadgang på https://app.resights.dk/joinus

Q2 of the US economy was very kind to movie theaters who are still recovering from the pandemic. AMC's financial performance and the evolving landscape of cinema experiences suggests a rebirth for badly bitten sector. Thanks to A Minecraft Movie and other blockbusters, we are finally seeing the repurposing of movie theater. The hosts explore the importance of community and shared experiences in film, the role of content quality, and innovative strategies to engage audiences. The conversation emphasizes the need for theaters to enhance the overall experience to attract viewers back, highlighting the significance of immersive and communal elements in the movie-going experience. Takeaways The pandemic significantly impacted the experience sector, especially movie theaters. Improving the theater experience can lead to increased attendance. A Mindcraft Movie and other blockbusters created tremendous box office revenues. Content quality is crucial for drawing audiences back to theaters. Community experiences enhance the enjoyment of films. Innovative strategies can create shareable moments in cinema. Theaters need to focus on creating immersive experiences. Audience engagement is key to the future of cinema. Shared experiences can drive social media buzz and virality. The movie industry must adapt to changing viewer preferences. Designing for different viewing modes can enhance the cinema experience. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Economy 01:15 The Impact of the Pandemic on Movie Theaters 03:33 The Premiumization of Movie Experiences 05:34 Challenges of Movie Theater Experiences 08:17 The Success of Community-Driven Films 12:30 Creating Shareable Experiences in Theaters 16:46 The Role of Experience in Movie Theaters 20:45 Conclusion and Broader Implications   Read more https://www.wsj.com/business/earnings/amc-posts-narrower-loss-as-sales-surge-7c161073?st=pqPSLX&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://screenrant.com/a-minecraft-movie-chicken-jockey-scene-audience-reactions-explained/?utm_source=chatgpt.com Podcast Sponsor: Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss a recent episode of the Diary of a CEO featuring Mo Gawdot, who predicts a dystopian future driven by technology and AI. The conversation explores themes of transformation, the value of work, and the implications of AI on jobs and society. The hosts critique Mo Gawdot's techno-extremism and emphasize the importance of hope and purpose in navigating the future. Using insights from The Experience Economy, from Experience Strategy, and human behavior, they argue for a bright future for those focused on customer's needs and desires Takeaways Mo Gawdot predicts a 15-year dystopia followed by a utopia. Critique of techno extremism highlights the need for balance. Transformation is key to the future economy. Work provides purpose and meaning to individuals. AI will create new jobs, not eliminate them. Gawdot argues against hope and against innovation Embracing AI is crucial for future success. People are resources that drive innovation. Experience strategists need to develop a strategic point of view to thrive in the future Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Strategy Podcast 01:26 Mo Gawdot's Dystopian Predictions 02:54 Critique of Techno-Extremism 05:19 Transformation vs. Dystopia 10:24 The Role of Work in Human Dignity 14:41 AI and the Future of Work 18:59 Hope and Transformation 22:55 The Last Mile Issue in Automation 25:02 Future Skills for Experience Strategists   Read more https://open.substack.com/pub/theexperiencestrategist/p/the-future-is-uncertain-and-bright?r=257bs3&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&showWelcomeOnShare=false Podcast Sponsor: Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

Relebogile Mabotja speaks to Greg Walsh the CEO of G&G Productions - The Goosebumps Company about the experience economy a space where emotion meets innovation, and where brands are no longer just seen, but felt. In this new era, products and services alone are no longer enough. What people remember and what keeps them coming back is how a brand makes them feel. 702 Afternoons with Relebogile Mabotja is broadcast live on Johannesburg based talk radio station 702 every weekday afternoon. Relebogile brings a lighter touch to some of the issues of the day as well as a mix of lifestyle topics and a peak into the worlds of entertainment and leisure. Thank you for listening to a 702 Afternoons with Relebogile Mabotja podcast. Listen live on Primedia+ weekdays from 13:00 to 15:00 (SA Time) to Afternoons with Relebogile Mabotja broadcast on 702 https://buff.ly/gk3y0Kj For more from the show go to https://buff.ly/2qKsEfu or find all the catch-up podcasts here https://buff.ly/DTykncj Subscribe to the 702 Daily and Weekly Newsletters https://buff.ly/v5mfetc Follow us on social media: 702 on Facebook https://www.facebook.com/TalkRadio702 702 on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@talkradio702 702 on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/talkradio702/ 702 on X: https://x.com/Radio702 702 on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@radio702 See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This episode builds on Dave Norton's article on Substack about Kate King's report in the Wall Street Journal: Can the French Reinvent America's Broken Department Store Model. Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the evolving landscape of retail, particularly focusing on the experiential model as exemplified by the French department store Printemps. They explore the differences between traditional American department stores and European models, emphasizing the importance of creating engaging experiences that encourage customers to linger. The conversation also touches on metrics for measuring success in experiential retail and highlights case studies like La Varia Leo bookstore, while critiquing Macy's for missing opportunities to connect with consumers. Takeaways The American department store model is in decline. Experiential retail focuses on creating reasons for customers to stay. Time spent in a retail space correlates with increased sales. European department stores are thriving by offering immersive experiences. Retailers need to shift from product staging to experience staging. Metrics for success should include time well spent and revenue increases. Charging for experiences can turn marketing into a profit center. La Varia Leo bookstore successfully monetized its experience. Macy's has not adapted to the experiential retail trend. Retailers must innovate to compete with online shopping. Sound bites "It's about time well spent." "You want to hang out there." "Macy's has done none of this." Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Economy 02:46 The European Retail Experience 11:30 Transformative Retail Experiences 19:58 Metrics for Success in Retail 23:35 The Future of Retail Experiences   Read more https://www.wsj.com/real-estate/commercial/can-the-french-reinvent-americas-broken-department-store-model-ff719a4a?st=9K6WB8&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com/p/america-looks-to-europe-to-reinvigorate Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com  

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss the economic power of experience strategy in various industries, focusing on an article in the Wall Street Journal on the Atlanta Braves and their innovative approach to sports business through the Battery Atlanta.  They explore the concept of Disneyfication, where businesses create holistic experiences that enhance customer engagement and economic impact. The conversation also delves into the potential for reimagining healthcare facilities as experience-driven environments, emphasizing the interconnectedness of experiences, goods, and services in today's economy. Takeaways The Atlanta Braves have revolutionized the sports business model through experience strategy. Experience economy prioritizes experiences over goods and services. The Battery Atlanta serves as a model for mixed-use development. Sports venues can act as anchors for surrounding retail and experiences. Disneyfication is a viable strategy for various industries. Healthcare can be transformed into experience-driven environments. Cities can become experience hubs to attract tourism and business. The economic impact of sports venues extends beyond ticket sales. Creating holistic experiences can lead to community engagement and economic growth. The experience economy is reshaping consumer preferences and business strategies. Chapters 00:00 Introduction to the Experience Economy Podcast 02:11 The Atlanta Braves: A Case Study in Experience Strategy 12:47 Disneyfication: Transforming Industries through Experience 15:14 Reimagining Healthcare and Other Industries: The Disneyfication of Everything 20:31 The Interconnectedness of Experiences, Goods, and Services   Read More: https://www.wsj.com/sports/baseball/truist-park-battery-atlanta-a3698b69?mod=Searchresults_pos1&page=1 Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter  or Bluesky for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 23rd July 2025. The winner will be contacted via Bluesky. Show references:  Sam Mullins, Trustee at SS Great Britainhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/sammullins/https://www.ssgreatbritain.org/ Transcriptions:  Paul Marden: What an amazing day out here. Welcome to Skip the Queue. The podcast for people working in and working with visitor attractions, I'm your host, Paul Marden, and today you join me for the last episode of the season here in a very sunny and very pleasant Bristol Dockyard. I'm here to visit the SS Great Britain and one of their trustees, Sam Mullins, who until recently, was the CEO of London Transport Museum. And I'm going to be talking to Sam about life after running a big, family friendly Museum in the centre of London, and what comes next, and I'm promising you it's not pipes and the slippers for Sam, he's been very busy with the SSGreat Britain and with other projects that we'll talk a little more about. But for now, I'm going to enjoy poodling across the harbour on boat number five awaiting arrival over at the SS Great Britain. Paul Marden: Is there much to catch in the water here?Sam Mullins: According to some research, there's about 36 different species of fish. They catch a lot of cream. They catch Roach, bullet, bass car. Big carpet there, maybe, yeah, huge carpet there. And then your European great eel is here as well, right? Yeah, massive things by the size of your leg, big heads. It's amazing. It goes to show how receipt your life is. The quality of the water is a lot better now. Paul Marden: Oh yeah, yeah, it's better than it used to be years ago. Thank you very much. All right. Cheers. Have a good day. See you later on. So without further ado, let's head inside. So where should we head? Too fast. Sam Mullins: So we start with the stern of the ship, which is the kind of classic entrance view, you know. Yeah, coming up, I do. I love the shape of this ship as you as you'll see.Paul Marden: So lovely being able to come across the water on the boat and then have this as you're welcome. It's quite a.Sam Mullins: It's a great spot. Isn't it?Paul Marden: Really impactful, isn't it? Sam Mullins:  Because the amazing thing is that it's going this way, is actually in the dry dock, which was built to build it. Paul Marden: That's amazing. Sam Mullins: So it came home. It was clearly meant to be, you know,Paul Marden:  Quite the circular story.Sam Mullins:  Yeah, yeah. Thank you. Paul Marden:  Thank you. Wow. Look at that view.Sam Mullins: So that's your classic view.Paul Marden:  So she's in a dry dock, but there's a little bit of water in there, just to give us an idea of what's going on. Sam Mullins: Well, what's actually going on in here is, preserving the world's first iron ship. So it became clear, after he'd come back from the Falklands, 1970 came back to Bristol, it became clear that the material of the ship was rusting away. And if something wasn't done, there'd be nothing left, nothing left to show. So the innovative solution is based on a little bit of science if you can reduce the relative humidity of the air around the cast iron hull of the ship to around about 20% relative humidity, corrosion stops. Rusting stops. It's in a dry dock. You glaze over the dock at kind of water line, which, as you just noticed, it gives it a really nice setting. It looks like it's floating, yeah, it also it means that you can then control the air underneath. You dry it out, you dehumidify it. Big plant that dries out the air. You keep it at 20% and you keep the ship intact. Paul Marden: It's interesting, isn't it, because you go to Mary Rose, and you go into the ship Hall, and you've got this hermetically sealed environment that you can maintain all of these beautiful Tudor wooden pieces we're outside on a baking hot day. You don't have the benefit of a hermetically sealed building, do you to keep this? Sam Mullins: I guess the outside of the ship is kind of sealed by the paint. That stops the air getting to the bit to the bare metal. We can go down into the trigger, down whilst rise up.Paul Marden:  We're wondering. Sam, yeah, why don't you introduce yourself, tell listeners a little bit about your background. How have we ended up having this conversation today.Sam Mullins: I'm Sam Mullins. I'm a historian. I decided early on that I wanted to be a historian that worked in museums and had an opportunity to kind of share my fascination with the past with museum visitors. So I worked in much Wenlock in Shropshire. I worked created a new museum in market Harbour, a community museum in Leicestershire. I was director of museums in St Albans, based on, you know, great Roman Museum at Verulamium, okay. And ended up at London Transport Museum in the 90s, and was directed there for a long time.Paul Marden: Indeed, indeed. Oh, we are inside now and heading underground.Sam Mullins: And you can hear the thrumming in the background. Is the dehumidification going on. Wow. So we're descending into thevery dry dock.Paul Marden: So we're now under water level. Yes, and the view of the ceiling with the glass roof, which above looked like a lovely little pond, it's just beautiful, isn't it?Sam Mullins: Yes, good. It sets it off both in both directions, really nicely.Paul Marden: So you've transitioned now, you've moved on from the Transport Museum. And I thought that today's episode, we could focus a little bit on what is, what's life like when you've moved on from being the director of a big, famous, influential, family friendly Museum. What comes next? Is it pipe and slippers, or are there lots of things to do? And I think it's the latter, isn't it? Sam Mullins: Yes. Well, you know, I think people retire either, you know, do nothing and play golf, or they build, you know, an interesting portfolio. I wanted to build, you know, something a bit more interesting. And, you know, Paul, there's that kind of strange feeling when you get to retire. And I was retiring from full time executive work, you kind of feel at that point that you've just cracked the job. And at that point, you know, someone gives you, you know, gives you a card and says, "Thank you very much, you've done a lovely job." Kind of, "Off you go." So having the opportunity to deploy some of that long term experience of running a successful Museum in Covent Garden for other organisations was part of that process of transition. I've been writing a book about which I'm sure we'll talk as well that's been kind of full on this year, but I was a trustee here for a number of years before I retired. I think it's really good career development for people to serve on a board to see what it's like, you know, the other side of the board. Paul Marden: I think we'll come back to that in a minute and talk a little bit about how the sausage is made. Yeah, we have to do some icebreaker questions, because I probably get you already. You're ready to start talking, but I'm gonna, I'm just gonna loosen you up a little bit, a couple of easy ones. You're sat in front of the telly, comedy or drama?Sam Mullins: It depends. Probably.Paul Marden: It's not a valid answer. Sam Mullins: Probably, probably drama.Paul Marden: Okay, if you need to talk to somebody, is it a phone call or is it a text message that you'll send?Sam Mullins:  Face to face? Okay, much better. Okay, always better. Paul Marden: Well done. You didn't accept the premise of the question there, did you? Lastly, if you're going to enter a room, would you prefer to have a personal theme tune played every time you enter the room. Or would you like a personal mascot to arrive fully suited behind you in every location you go to?Sam Mullins: I don't know what the second one means, so I go for the first one.Paul Marden: You've not seen a football mascot on watching American football or baseball?Sam Mullins: No, I try and avoid that. I like real sport. I like watching cricket. Paul Marden: They don't do that in cricket. So we are at the business end of the hull of the ship, aren't we? We're next to the propeller. Sam Mullins: We're sitting under the stern. We can still see that lovely, gilded Stern, saying, Great Britain, Bristol, and the windows and the coat of arms across the stern of the ship. Now this, of course, was the biggest ship in the world when built. So not only was it the first, first iron ship of any scale, but it was also third bigger than anything in the Royal Navy at the time. Paul Marden: They talked about that, when we were on the warrior aim the other day, that it was Brunel that was leading the way on what the pinnacle of engineering was like. It was not the Royal Navy who was convinced that it was sail that needed to lead. Sam Mullins: Yeah, Brunel had seen a much smaller, propeller driven vessel tried out, which was being toured around the country. And so they were midway through kind of design of this, when they decided it wasn't going to be a paddle steamer, which its predecessor, the world's first ocean liner, the Great Western. A was a paddle steamer that took you to New York. He decided that, and he announced to the board that he was going to make a ship that was driven by a propeller, which was the first, and this is, this is actually a replica of his patent propeller design. Paul Marden: So, this propeller was, is not the original to the show, okay?Sam Mullins: Later in its career, it had the engines taken out, and it was just a sailing ship. It had a long and interesting career. And for the time it was going to New York and back, and the time it was going to Australia and back, carrying migrants. It was a hybrid, usually. So you use the sails when it was favourable when it wasn't much wind or the wind was against. You use the use the engines. Use the steam engine.Paul Marden: Coming back into fashion again now, isn't it? Sam Mullins: Yeah, hybrid, yeah.Paul Marden: I can see holes in the hull. Was this evident when it was still in the Falklands?Sam Mullins: Yeah, it came to notice in the 60s that, you know, this world's first it was beached at Sparrow Cove in the Falkland Islands. It had lost its use as a wool warehouse, which is which it had been for 30 or 40 years. And a number of maritime historians, you and call it. It was the kind of key one realised that this, you know, extraordinary, important piece of maritime heritage would maybe not last too many war winters at Sparrow cope had a big crack down one side of the hull. It would have probably broken in half, and that would have made any kind of conservation restoration pretty well impossible as it was. It was a pretty amazing trick to put it onto a to put a barge underneath, to raise it up out of the water, and to tow it into Montevideo and then across the Atlantic, you know, 7000 miles, or whatever it is, to Avon mouth. So it's a kind of heroic story from the kind of heroic age of industrial and maritime heritage, actually.Paul Marden: It resonates for me in terms of the Mary Rose in that you've got a small group of very committed people that are looking to rescue this really valuable asset. And they find it and, you know, catch it just in time. Sam Mullins: Absolutely. That was one of the kind of eye openers for me at Mary rose last week, was just to look at the kind of sheer difficulty of doing conventional archaeology underwater for years and years. You know, is it 50,000 dives were made? Some immense number. And similarly, here, you know, lots of people kind of simply forget it, you know, it's never gonna, but a few, stuck to it, you know, formed a group, fund, raised. This is an era, of course, you know, before lottery and all that jazz. When you had to, you had to fundraise from the public to do this, and they managed to raise the money to bring it home, which, of course, is only step one. You then got to conserve this enormous lump of metal so it comes home to the dry dock in which it had been built, and that has a sort of fantastic symmetry, you know about it, which I just love. You know, the dock happened to be vacant, you know, in 1970 when the ship was taken off the pontoon at Avon mouth, just down the river and was towed up the curving Avon river to this dock. It came beneath the Clifton Suspension Bridge, which, of course, was Brunel design, but it was never built in his time. So these amazing pictures of this Hulk, in effect,  coming up the river, towed by tugs and brought into the dock here with 1000s of people you know, surrounding cheering on the sidelines, and a bit like Mary Rose in a big coverage on the BBC.Paul Marden: This is the thing. So I have a very vivid memory of the Mary Rose being lifted, and that yellow of the scaffolding is just permanently etched in my brain about sitting on the carpet in primary school when the TV was rolled out, and it was the only TV in the whole of school that, to me is it's modern history happening. I'm a Somerset boy. I've been coming to Bristol all my life. I wasn't alive when Great Britain came back here. So to me, this feels like ancient history. It's always been in Bristol, because I have no memory of it returning home. It was always just a fixture. So when we were talking the other day and you mentioned it was brought back in the 70s, didn't realise that. Didn't realise that at all. Should we move on? Because I am listening. Gently in the warmth.Sam Mullins: Let's move around this side of the as you can see, the dry dock is not entirely dry, no, but nearly.Paul Marden: So, you're trustee here at SS Great Britain. What does that mean? What do you do?Sam Mullins: Well, the board, Board of Trustees is responsible for the governance of the charity. We employ the executives, the paid team here. We work with them to develop the kind of strategy, financial plan, to deliver that strategy, and we kind of hold them as executives to account, to deliver on that.Paul Marden: It's been a period of change for you, hasn't it? Just recently, you've got a new CEO coming to the first anniversary, or just past his first anniversary. It's been in place a little while.Sam Mullins: So in the last two years, we've had a, we've recruited a new chairman, new chief executive, pretty much a whole new leadership team.One more starting next month, right? Actually, we're in July this month, so, yeah, it's been, you know, organisations are like that. They can be very, you know, static for some time, and then suddenly a kind of big turnover. And people, you know, people move.Paul Marden: So we're walking through what is a curved part of the dry dock now. So this is becoming interesting underfoot, isn't it?Sam Mullins: This is built in 1839 by the Great Western Steamship Company to build a sister ship to the Great Western which was their first vessel built for the Atlantic run to New York. As it happens, they were going to build a similar size vessel, but Brunel had other ideas, always pushing the edges one way or another as an engineer.Paul Marden: The keel is wood. Is it all wood? Or is this some sort of?Sam Mullins: No, this is just like, it's sort of sacrificial.So that you know when, if it does run up against ground or whatever, you don't actually damage the iron keel.Paul Marden: Right. Okay, so there's lots happening for the museum and the trust. You've just had a big injection of cash, haven't you, to do some interesting things. So there was a press release a couple of weeks ago, about a million pound of investment. Did you go and find that down the back of the sofa? How do you generate that kind of investment in the charity?Sam Mullins: Unusually, I think that trust that's put the bulk of that money and came came to us. I think they were looking to do something to mark their kind of, I think to mark their wind up. And so that was quite fortuitous, because, as you know at the moment, you know, fundraising is is difficult. It's tough. Paul Marden: That's the understatement of the year, isn't it?Sam Mullins: And with a new team here and the New World post COVID, less, less visitors, income harder to gain from. Pretty well, you know, all sources, it's important to keep the site kind of fresh and interesting. You know, the ship has been here since 1970 it's become, it's part of Bristol. Wherever you go in Bristol, Brunel is, you know, kind of the brand, and yet many Bristolians think they've seen all this, and don't need, you know, don't need to come back again. So keeping the site fresh, keeping the ideas moving on, are really important. So we've got the dockyard museum just on the top there, and that's the object for fundraising at the moment, and that will open in July next year as an account of the building of the ship and its importance. Paul Marden: Indeed, that's interesting. Related to that, we know that trusts, trusts and grants income really tough to get. Everybody's fighting for a diminishing pot income from Ace or from government sources is also tough to find. At the moment, we're living off of budgets that haven't changed for 10 years, if we're lucky. Yeah, for many people, finding a commercial route is the answer for their museum. And that was something that you did quite successfully, wasn't it, at the Transport Museum was to bring commercial ideas without sacrificing the integrity of the museum. Yeah. How do you do that?Sam Mullins: Well, the business of being an independent Museum, I mean, LTM is a to all sets of purposes, an independent Museum. Yes, 81% of its funding itself is self generated. Paul Marden: Is it really? Yeah, yeah. I know. I would have thought the grant that you would get from London Transport might have been bigger than that.  Sam Mullins: The grant used to be much bigger proportion, but it's got smaller and smaller. That's quite deliberate. Are, you know, the more you can stand on your own two feet, the more you can actually decide which direction you're going to take those feet in. Yeah. So there's this whole raft of museums, which, you know, across the UK, which are independently governed, who get all but nothing from central government. They might do a lottery grant. Yes, once in a while, they might get some NPO funding from Ace, but it's a tiny part, you know, of the whole. And this ship, SS Great Britain is a classic, you know, example of that. So what do you do in those circumstances? You look at your assets and you you try and monetise them. That's what we did at London Transport Museum. So the museum moved to Covent Garden in 1980 because it was a far sighted move. Michael Robbins, who was on the board at the time, recognised that they should take the museum from Scion Park, which is right on the west edge, into town where people were going to be, rather than trying to drag people out to the edge of London. So we've got that fantastic location, in effect, a high street shop. So retail works really well, you know, at Covent Garden.Paul Marden: Yeah, I know. I'm a sucker for a bit of moquette design.Sam Mullins: We all love it, which is just great. So the museum developed, you know, a lot of expertise in creating products and merchandising it. We've looked at the relationship with Transport for London, and we monetised that by looking at TFL supply chain and encouraging that supply chain to support the museum. So it is possible to get the TFL commissioner to stand up at a corporate members evening and say, you know, you all do terribly well out of our contract, we'd like you to support the museum as well, please. So the corporate membership scheme at Transport Museum is bigger than any other UK museum by value, really, 60, 65 members,. So that was, you know, that that was important, another way of looking at your assets, you know, what you've got. Sometimes you're talking about monetising relationships. Sometimes it's about, you know, stuff, assets, yeah. And then in we began to run a bit short of money in the kind of middle of the teens, and we did an experimental opening of the Aldwych disused tube station on the strand, and we're amazed at the demand for tickets.Paul Marden: Really, it was that much of a surprise for you. And we all can talk. Sam Mullins: We had been doing, we've been doing some guided tours there in a sort of, slightly in a one off kind of way, for some time. And we started to kind of think, well, look, maybe should we carry on it? Paul Marden: You've got the audience that's interested.Sam Mullins: And we've got the access through TFL which, you know, took a lot of work to to convince them we weren't going to, you know, take loads of people underground and lose them or that they jump out, you know, on the Piccadilly line in the middle of the service, or something. So hidden London is the kind of another really nice way where the museum's looked at its kind of assets and it's monetised. And I don't know what this I don't know what this year is, but I think there are now tours run at 10 different sites at different times. It's worth about half a million clear to them to the museum.Paul Marden: It's amazing, and they're such brilliant events. So they've now opened up for younger kids to go. So I took my daughter and one of her friends, and they were a little bit scared when the lights got turned off at one point, but we had a whale of a time going and learning about the history of the tube, the history of the tube during the war. It was such an interesting, accessible way to get to get them interested in stuff. It was brilliant.Sam Mullins: No, it's a great programme, and it was doing well before COVID, we went into lockdown, and within three weeks, Chris Nix and the team had started to do kind of zoom virtual tours. We all are stuck at home looking at our screens and those hidden London hangouts the audience kind of gradually built yesterday TV followed with secrets of London Underground, which did four series of. Hidden London book has sold 25,000 copies in hardback, another one to come out next year, maybe.Paul Marden: And all of this is in service of the museum. So it's almost as if you're opening the museum up to the whole of London, aren't you, and making all of that space you're you. Museum where you can do things.Sam Mullins: Yeah. And, of course, the great thing about hidden London programme is it's a bit like a theatre production. We would get access to a particular site for a month or six weeks. You'd sell the tickets, you know, like mad for that venue. And then the run came to an end, and you have to, you know, the caravan moves on, and we go to, you know, go to go to a different stations. So in a sense, often it's quite hard to get people to go to an attraction unless they've got visitors staying or whatever. But actually, if there's a time limit, you just kind of have to do it, you know.Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. Everybody loves a little bit of scarcity, don't they? Sam Mullins: Should we go up on the deck? Paul Marden: That sounds like fun to me.Sam Mullins: Work our way through.Paul Marden: So Hidden London was one of the angles in order to make the museum more commercially sound. What are you taking from your time at LTM and bringing to the party here at the SS Great Britain?Sam Mullins: Well, asking similar, you know, range of questions really, about what assets do we have? Which of those are, can be, can be monetised in support of the charity? Got here, Paul, so we're, we've got the same mix as lots of middle sized museums here. There's a it's a shop, paid admission, hospitality events in the evening, cafe. You know that mix, what museums then need to do is kind of go, you know, go beyond that, really, and look at their estate or their intellectual property, or the kind of experiences they can offer, and work out whether some of that is monetisable.Paul Marden: Right? And you mentioned before that Brunel is kind of, he's the mascot of Bristol. Almost, everything in Bristol focuses on Brunel. Is there an opportunity for you to collaborate with other Brunel themed sites, the bridge or?Sam Mullins: Yeah. Well, I think probably the opportunity is to collaborate with other Bristol attractions. Because Bristol needs to. Bristol's having a hard time since COVID numbers here are nowhere near what they were pre COVID So, and I think it's the same in the city, across the city. So Andrew chief executive, is talking to other people in the city about how we can share programs, share marketing, that kind of approach.Paul Marden: Making the docks a destination, you know, you've got We the Curious. Where I was this morning, having coffee with a friend and having a mooch around. Yeah, talking about science and technology, there must be things that you can cross over. This was this war. This feels like history, but it wasn't when it was built, was it? It was absolutely the cutting edge of science and technology.Sam Mullins: Absolutely, and well, almost beyond, you know, he was Brunel was pushing, pushing what could be done. It is the biggest ship. And it's hard to think of it now, because, you know, you and I can walk from one end to the other in no time. But it was the biggest ship in the world by, you know, some way, when it was launched in 1845 so this was a bit like the Great Western Railway. It was cutting edge, cutting edge at the time, as we were talking about below. It had a propeller, radical stuff. It's got the bell, too,Paul Marden: When we were on, was it Warrior that we were on last week at the AIM conference for the first. And warrior had a propeller, but it was capable of being lifted, because the Admiralty wasn't convinced that this new fangled propeller nonsense, and they thought sail was going to lead. Sam Mullins: Yeah. Well, this ship had, you could lift a you could lift a propeller, because otherwise the propeller is a drag in the water if it's not turning over. So in its earlier configurations, it was a, it was that sort of a hybrid, where you could lift the propeller out the way, right, set full sail.Paul Marden:  Right, and, yeah, it's just, it's very pleasant out here today, isn't it? Lovely breeze compared to what it's been like the last few days. Sam Mullins: Deck has just been replaced over the winter. Paul Marden:  Oh, has it really. So say, have you got the original underneathSam Mullins: The original was little long, long gone. So what we have replaced was the deck that was put on in the in the 70s when the ship came back.Paul Marden: Right? You were talking earlier on about the cafe being one of the assets. You've done quite a lot of work recently, haven't you with the team at Elior to refurbish the cafe? What's the plan around that?Sam Mullins: Yeah, we're doing a big reinvestment. You always need to keep the offer fresh anyway, but it was time to reinvest. So the idea is to use that fantastic space on the edge of the dock. It's not very far down to where the floating harbour is really well populated with kind of restaurants and bars and an offer, we're just that 200 meters further along the dock. So perhaps to create an offer here that draws people up here, whether they visit the ship, you know, or not. So it's money, it's monetising your assets. So one of the great assets is this fabulous location on the on the dockside. So with early or we're reinvesting in the restaurant, it's going to go in the auto into after some trial openings and things, Paul, you know, it's going to have an evening offer as well as a daytime offer. And then it's been designed so the lights can go down in the evening. It becomes, you know, an evening place, rather than the museum's all day cafe, yes, and the offer, and obviously in the evenings would similarly change. And I think our ambition is that you should, you should choose this as the place to go out in the evening. Really, it's a great spot. It's a lovely, warm evening. We're going to walk along the dockside. I've booked a table and in the boardwalk, which is what we're calling it. And as you pay the bill, you notice that actually, this is associated with Asus, Great Britain. So, you know, the profit from tonight goes to help the charity, rather than it's the museum cafe. So that's the,Paul Marden: That's the pitch.Sam Mullins: That's the pitch in which we're working with our catering partners, Eli, or to deliver.Paul Marden: Andrew, your CEO and Claire from Eli, or have both kindly said that I can come back in a couple of months time and have a conversation about the restaurant. And I think it would be rude to turn them down, wouldn't it?Sam Mullins: I think you should test the menu really fully.Paul Marden: I will do my best. It's a tough job that I have. Sam Mullins: Somebody has to do this work. Paul Marden: I know, talking of tough jobs, the other thing that I saw when I was looking at the website earlier on was a press release talking about six o'clock gin as being a a partnership that you're investigating, because every museum needs its own tipple, doesn't it?Sam Mullins: Absolutely And what, you know, I think it's, I think what people want when they go to an attraction is they, they also want something of the offer to be locally sourced, completely, six o'clock gym, you know, Bristol, Bristol beers. You can't always do it, but I think, I think it's where you've got the opportunity. And Bristol's a bit of a foodie centre. There's quite a lot going on here in that respect. So, yes, of course, the museum ought to be ought to be doing that too.Paul Marden: I was very kindly invited to Big Pit over in the Welsh Valleys about 8 or 12 weeks ago for the launch, relaunch of their gift shop offering. And absolutely, at the core of what they were trying to do was because it's run by Museums Wales, they found that all of their gift shops were just a bland average of what you could get at any of the museums. None of them spoke of the individual place. So if you went to big pit, the gift shop looked the same as if you were in the centre of Cardiff, whereas now when you go you see things that are naturally of Big Pit and the surrounding areas. And I think that's so important to create a gift shop which has things that is affordable to everybody, but at the same time authentic and genuinely interesting.Sam Mullins: Yeah, I'm sure that's right. And you know I'm saying for you is for me, when I when I go somewhere, you want to come away with something, don't you? Yes, you know, you're a National Trust member and you haven't had to pay anything to get in. But you think I should be supporting the cause, you know, I want to go into that shop and then I want to, I want to buy some of the plants for my garden I just seen, you know, on the estate outside. Or I want to come away with a six o'clock gin or, you know, whatever it might be, there's and I think, I think you're more likely to buy if it's something that you know has engaged you, it's part of that story that's engaged you, right, while you're here. That's why everyone buys a guidebook and reads it afterwards.Paul Marden: Yeah, it's a reminder, isn't it, the enjoyable time that you've had? Yeah, I'm enjoying myself up on the top deck. Sam Mullins:  But should we go downstairs? The bow is a great view. Oh, let's do that. I think we might. Let's just work our way down through.Paul Marden: Take a sniff. Could you travel with these smelly passengers? Oh, no, I don't think I want to smell what it's like to be a cow on board shit. Sam Mullins: Fresh milk. Just mind yourself on these companion, ways are very steep now. This is probably where I get completely lost.Paul Marden: You know what we need? We need a very good volunteer. Don't we tell a volunteer story? COVID in the kitchen. Wow. Sam Mullins: The Gabby.Paul Marden: Generous use of scent. Sam Mullins: Yeah, food laid out pretty much based on what we know was consumed on the ship. One of the great things about the ship is people kept diaries. A lot of people kept diaries, and many have survived, right? You know exactly what it was like to be in first class or in steerage down the back.Paul Marden: And so what was the ship used for? Sam Mullins: Well, it was used, it was going to be an ocean liner right from here to New York, and it was more like the Concord of its day. It was essentially first class and second class. And then it has a founders on a bay in Northern Ireland. It's rescued, fitted out again, and then the opportunity comes take people to Australia. The Gold Rush in the 1850s. Migration to Australia becomes the big kind of business opportunity for the ships. Ships new owners. So there's more people on board that used to it applies to and fro to Australia a number of times 30 odd, 40 times. And it takes, takes passengers. It takes goods. It does bring back, brings back gold from because people were there for the gold rush. They were bringing their earnings, you know, back with them. It also brings mail, and, you know, other. Kind of car goes wool was a big cargo from. Paul Marden: Say, people down and assets back up again.Sam Mullins: People both directions. Paul Marden: Okay, yeah. How long was it taking?Sam Mullins: Well, a good trip. I think it did it in 50 odd days. Bit slower was 60 odd. And the food was like this. So it was steerage. It was probably a bit more basic. Paul Marden: Yeah, yes, I can imagine. Sam Mullins: I think we might. Here's the engines. Let's do the engines well.Paul Marden: Yes. So now we're in the engine room and, oh, it's daylight lit, actually. So you're not down in the darkest of depths, but the propeller shaft and all of the mechanism is it runs full length, full height of the ship.Sam Mullins: Yeah, it runs off from here, back to the propeller that we're looking at. Okay, down there a guy's stoking the boilers, putting coal into into the boilers, 24 hour seven, when the engines are running. Paul Marden: Yes, that's going to be a tough job, isn't it? Yeah, coal is stored in particular locations. Because that was something I learned from warrior, was the importance of making sure that you had the coal taken in the correct places, so that you didn't unbalance the ship. I mean,Sam Mullins: You right. I mean loading the ship generally had to be done really carefully so, you know, sort of balanced out and so forth. Coal is tends to be pretty low down for yes, for obvious reasons.Paul Marden: So let's talk a little bit about being a trustee. We're both trustees of charities. I was talking to somebody last week who been in the sector for a number of years, mid career, interested in becoming a trustee as a career development opportunity. What's the point of being a trustee? What's the point of the trustees to the CEO, and what's the benefit to the trustees themselves? Sam Mullins: Well, let's do that in order for someone in the mid part of their career, presumably looking to assume some kind of leadership role. At some point they're going to be dealing with a board, aren't they? Yes, they might even be doing, you know, occasional reporting to a board at that at their current role, but they certainly will be if they want to be chief executive. So getting some experience on the other side of the table to feel what it's like to be a trustee dealing with chief executive. I think he's immensely useful. I always recommended it to to my gang at the Transport Museum, and they've all been on boards of one sort or another as part of their career development.Sam Mullins: For the chief executive. What's the benefit? Well, the board, I mean, very directly, hold the chief executive to account. Yes, are you doing what we asked you to do? But also the wise chief executive recruits a board that's going to be helpful in some way or another. It's not just there to catch them out. Yeah, it's it's there to bring their experience from business, from IT, from marketing, from other museums into the business of running the place. So here we've got a range of Trustees. We've been we've recruited five or six in the last couple of years qquite deliberately to we know that a diverse board is a good board, and that's diverse in the sense not just a background, but of education, retired, still, still at work, young, old, male, female, you know, you name in.Paul Marden: In all of the directionsSam Mullins:  Yeah. So a diverse board makes better decisions than one that just does group think all the time. It's, you know, it's a truism, isn't it? I think we all kind of, we all understand and understand that now and then, for the trustee, you know, for me, I particularly last couple of years, when the organization has been through huge changes, it's been really interesting to deploy my prior experience, particularly in governance, because governance is what it all comes down to in an organisation. You do learn over the course of your career to deploy that on behalf, you know, this is a great organisation, the story of Brunel and the ship and and, you know, his influence on the railways. And I travel down on the Great Western railways, yeah, the influence of Brunel is, you know, is enormous. It's a fantastic story. It's inspiring. So who wouldn't want to join? You know what in 2005 was the Museum of the year? Yes, I think we'll just go back there where we came. Otherwise, I never found my way.Paul Marden: Back through the kitchen. Sam Mullins: Back through the kitchen. It looks like stew is on the menu tonight. You've seen me at the mobile the rat.Paul Marden: And also the cat up on the shelf. He's not paying a lot of attention to the ratSam Mullins: Back on deck. Paul Marden: Wonderful. Yeah. So the other great endeavor that you've embarked on is writing, writing a book. Tell us a little bit about the book.Sam Mullins: Yeah, I've written a history of transport in London and its influence on London since 2000 since the mayoralty, elected mayoralty was, was started, you know, I was very lucky when I was running the museum where I had kind of one foot in TfL and one foot out. I knew lots of people. I was there for a long time, yes, so it was, it was easy to interview about 70 of them.Paul Marden: Right? I guess you've built trust levels, haven't you? Yeah, I don't mean that you don't look like a journalist walking in from the outside with an ax to grind. Sam Mullins: And I'm not going to kind of screw them to the Evening Standard, you know, tomorrow. So it's a book based on interviews, oral reminiscences. It's very much their story. So it's big chunks of their accounts of, you know, the big events in London. So what was it like to be in the network control room on the seventh of July, 2005 when the bombs went off? What was it like to be looking out for congestion charge the day it started? Yep. What was it like to kind of manage the Olympics?Paul Marden: You know? So you're mentioning these things. And so I was 10 years at British Airways. I was an IT project manager, but as well, I was a member of the emergency planning team. Yeah. So I got involved in the response to September the 11th. I got involved in some of the engagement around seven, seven, there's seminal moments, and I can, I can vividly remember myself being there at that time. But similarly, I can remember being there when we won the Olympics, and we were all sat in the staff canteen waiting to hear whether we'd won the Olympics, and the roar that erupted. There's so many of those things that have happened in the last 25 years where, you know, you've got, it's recent history, but it's real interesting events that have occurred that you can tell stories of.Sam Mullins: Yeah. So what I wanted to get in the book was a kind of sense of what it was like to be, really at the heart of those, those stories. And there are, you know, there are, there are people in TfL who made those big things happen? Yes, it's not a big, clumsy bureaucracy. It's a place where really innovative leadership was being exercised all the way through that 25 years. Yes, so it runs up to COVID, and what was it like when COVID struck? So the book's called Every Journey Matters, and it comes out in November.Paul Marden: Amazing, amazing. So we have, we've left the insides of the ship, and we are now under, what's this part of the ship? Sam Mullins: We're under the bow. There we go, and a bow spread that gets above our heads. So again, you've got this great, hulking, cast iron, black hull, beautifully shaped at the bow. Look the way it kind of tapers in and it tapers in and out.Paul Marden: It's a very three dimensional, isn't it? The curve is, is in every direction. Sam Mullins: Yeah,it's a great, great shape. So it's my sort of, I think it's my favourite spot. I like coming to look at this, because this is the kind of, this is the business, yeah, of the ship.Paul Marden: What have we got running along the front here? These these images in in gold.Sam Mullins: This is a figurehead with Victoria's Coat of Arms only sua Kim Ali points on top with it, with a lion and a unicorn.Paul Marden: It's a really, it's not a view that many people would have ever seen, but it is such an impressive view here looking up, yeah, very, very cool. And to stand here on the on the edge of the dry dock. Sam Mullins: Dry Docks in to our right, and the floating harbor is out to our left. Yeah.Paul Marden: And much going on on that it's busy today, isn't it? Sam Mullins: Yeah, it's good. Paul Marden: So we've done full loop, haven't we? I mean, it has been a whistle stop tour that you've taken me on, but I've loved every moment of this. We always ask our guests a difficult question. Well, for some it's a difficult question, a book recommendation, which, as we agreed over lunch, cannot be your own book. I don't think, I think it's a little unfair Sam Mullins: Or anything I've ever written before.Paul Marden: Yes, slightly self serving, but yeah.Sam Mullins: It would be, wouldn't it look the first thing that comes to mind is, I've actually been reading my way through Mick Herron's Slow Horses series, okay, which I'm a big fan of detective fiction. I love Ian Rankin's Rebus. Okay, I read through Rebus endlessly when I want something just to escape into the sloughhouse series Slow Horses is really good, and the books all have a sort of similar kind of momentum to them. Something weird happens in the first few chapters, which seems very inconsequential and. Suddenly it turns into this kind of roller coaster. Will they? Won't they? You know, ending, which is just great. So I recommend Mick Herron's series. That's that's been the best, not best, fiction I've read in a long time.Paul Marden: You know, I think there's something, there's something nice, something comforting, about reading a series of books where the way the book is structured is very similar. You can, you can sit down and you know what's going to happen, but, but there's something interesting, and it's, it's easy. Sam Mullins: It's like putting on a pair of old slippers. Oh, I'm comfortable with this. Just lead me along. You know, that's what, that's what I want. I enjoy that immensely.Paul Marden: And should we be? Should we be inviting our listeners to the first book in the series, or do they need to start once, once he's got his, got his, found his way? Sam Mullins: Well, some people would have seen the television adaptation already. Well, that will have spoilt the book for them. Gary Oldman is Jackson lamb, who's the lead character, okay, but if you haven't, or you just like a damn good read, then you start with the first one, which I think is called Sloughhouse. They're all self contained, but you can work your way through them. Paul Marden: Well, that sounds very good. So listeners, if you'd like a copy of Sam's book, not Sam's book, Sam's book recommendation, then head over to Bluesky and repost the show notice and say, I want a copy of Sam's book, and the first one of you lovely listeners that does that will get a copy sent to you by Wenalyn. Sam This has been delightful. I hope listeners have enjoyed this as much as I have. This is our first time having a @skipthequeue in real life, where we wandered around the attraction itself and hopefully narrated our way bringing this amazing attraction to life. I've really enjoyed it. I can now say that as a West Country lad, I have actually been to the SS Great Britain. Last thing to say for visitor, for listeners, we are currently midway through the Rubber Cheese Annual Survey of visitor attraction websites. Paul Marden: If you look after an attraction website and you'd like to share some information about what you do, we are gathering all of that data together to produce a report that helps people to understand what good looks like for an attraction website. This is our fourth year. Listeners that are interested, head over to RubberCheese.com/survey, and you can find out a little bit more about the survey and some of the some of the findings from the past and what we're looking for for this year. Sam, thank you so very much.Sam Mullins: Enjoyed it too. It's always good to rabbit on about what you do every day of the week, and being here and part of this really great organisation is huge privilege.Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others to find us. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them to increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcripts from this episode and more over on our website, skipthequeue fm. The 2025 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsTake the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

Chris Abazis transformed challenges into success through authenticity, niches, and memorable experiences with inspiring takeaways for business and life.See full article: https://www.unitedstatesrealestateinvestor.com/powerfully-compelling-lessons-of-success-through-authenticity-and-purpose-with-chris-abazis/(00:00) - Introduction to The REI Agent Podcast(00:06) - Meet the Hosts: Mattias and Erica(00:24) - Topic Overview: The Platinum Rule and Business Niches(01:02) - Exploring Love Languages in Relationships and Business(02:13) - Parenting Styles and Communication Challenges(03:16) - Lessons from the Morning Routine: Balancing Patience and Love(05:00) - Welcoming the Guest: Chris Abazis(05:12) - Chris Abazis' Journey into Real Estate(10:50) - The Transition from Sales to Leadership(13:17) - From Punk Rock to Real Estate: The Importance of Authenticity(18:41) - The Value of Niches: Personal and Professional Impact(24:35) - The Experience Economy and Content Marketing Strategies(30:16) - Teams in Real Estate: Building Businesses through Collaboration(32:28) - Leveraging Opportunities for Mutual Growth(37:22) - Starting in Real Estate: Part-Time vs. Full-Time Commitments(43:18) - Self-Motivation in Business and Embracing Discomfort(44:53) - Life Balance: Counterbalances and Contentment(50:36) - Small Business Support: Chris Abazis' Current Mission(52:06) - Recommended Reads: The Gap and the Gain, and Spontaneous AF(54:10) - Future Plans: Live Events and Upcoming Projects(56:00) - Charlottesville and Real Estate Culture: A Closer Look(57:00) - Where to Connect with Chris AbazisContact Chris Abazischrisabazis.com--Go to reiagent.com for more incredibly insightful content just like this.

On this episode, I dive into an enlightening conversation with Ryan Rael, a certified customer experience strategist and founder of Tight Ship CX. We explore how businesses can elevate their customer experience by streamlining operations and optimizing customer journeys while leveraging the right technology.  Ryan details the importance of customer feedback and technology in shaping exceptional customer journeys. He emphasizes how the blend of innovation from small businesses and the structured processes of corporate environments can create powerful strategies for growth and improved customer loyalty. Throughout our discussion, Ryan highlights the importance of understanding the connections between operational efficiency and customer satisfaction, asserting that businesses often overlook the impact their internal processes have on customer experiences. We address the common misconceptions businesses have about customer experience being a cost center, and Ryan provides concrete strategies for shifting this perspective. By identifying quick wins—such as obtaining feedback through accessible tech or refining response times—business leaders can demonstrate the direct relationship between customer experience enhancements and revenue growth. Ryan emphasizes the need for organizations to move beyond a transactional mindset and to foster deeper, relationship-oriented customer interactions that underpin long-term loyalty. A crucial point is the role of effective communication in customer experience. Ryan advocates for closing the feedback loop with customers, explaining that it's essential not just to gather insights but also to inform customers about changes made as a result of their feedback. This creates a sense of respect and value in the customer relationship, enriching their overall experience with the brand. Ryan reveals the initial step he takes with new clients: conducting a customer experience audit, giving a comprehensive view of the customer journey, to highlight key areas for improvement. Utilizing this holistic evaluation, businesses can gain clarity on customer touchpoints and uncover opportunities for impactful changes. The episode is a treasure trove of practical strategies and insights for any business leader to create truly customer-centric cultures.   Ryan's Contact Information: Website: TightShip Cx LinkedIn: @ryan-rael-ccxp   Tacey's Contact Information: Website: taceyatkinson.com All Socials: @TaceyAtkinson   Thank you for tuning in, and I look forward to having more valuable conversations together in the future. Remember: Customer-Centric Cultures Create Magical Customer Experiences. Now Go, Create the Magic!

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss Airbnb's recent rebranding and its shift from a focus solely on home bookings to a more holistic approach that includes services and experiences. They explore the implications of this transformation for the travel industry, emphasizing the importance of authenticity, operational platforms, and the experience economy. The conversation highlights the potential for Airbnb to create unique, transformative travel experiences that resonate with customers' desires for connection and personal growth. Takeaways Airbnb is evolving from just home bookings to offering services and experiences. Transformative travel is about creating lasting changes in identity and aspirations. Airbnb's operational platform can help travelers manage their entire itinerary. Authenticity in travel experiences is key to perceived value. Experience stacking allows for unique offerings that enhance customer engagement. The shift from a sharing economy to an experience economy is crucial for value creation. Vetting experiences builds trust and enhances customer satisfaction. Airbnb's community aspect deepens the travel experience. The future of travel will focus on personalized and bespoke experiences. Airbnb's approach could raise the standard for the entire travel industry. Chapters 00:00 The Evolution of Airbnb: A New Era in Travel 03:24 Transformative Experiences: Beyond Just Stays 06:16 Operational Platforms: The Future of Travel Itineraries 09:12 Authenticity in Travel: The Airbnb Advantage 14:50 The Shift from Sharing to Experience Economy 17:33 Creating Value Through Experiences 20:34 The Role of Trust and Vetting in In Destination Experiences 23:27 The Future of Airbnb and the Experience Economy   Read More: https://news.airbnb.com Register for a free pilot program with Feedback Now https://marketing-info.feedbacknow.com/free-pilot Register for the free membership in the Collaboratives here: https://www.thecollaboratives.com/contest Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: The Experience Strategist A newsletter about creating value for customers, employees, and companies. By Dave Norton  

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is Paul Marden.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter  or Bluesky for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcast.Competition ends on 9th July 2025. The winner will be contacted via Bluesky. Show references: Matthew Tanner, Vice President of AIM and Independent Consultant https://aim-museums.co.uk/Richard Morsley, CEO of Chatham Historic Dockyardhttps://thedockyard.co.uk/Hannah Prowse, CEO, Portsmouth Historic Quarterhttps://portsmouthhq.org/Dominic Jones, CEO Mary Rose Trusthttps://maryrose.org/Andrew Baines, Executive Director, Museum Operations, National Museum of the Royal Navyhttps://www.nmrn.org.uk/ Transcriptions: Paul Marden: Welcome to Skip the Queue. The podcast of people working in and working with visitor attractions, and today you join me in Portsmouth Historic Dockyard. I am actually in the shadow of HMS Victory at the moment, right next door to the Mary Rose. And I'm at the Association of Independent Museum's annual conference, and it is Wednesday night, and we're just about to enjoy the conference dinner. We've been told by Dominic Jones, CEO of Mary Rose, to expect lots of surprises and unexpected events throughout the meal, which I understand is a walking meal where we'll partake of our food and drink as we're wandering around the museum itself, moving course to course around different parts of the museum. So that sounds very exciting. Paul Marden:  Today's episode, I'm going to be joined by a I don't know what the collective noun is, for a group of Maritime Museum senior leaders, but that's what they are, and we're going to be talking about collaboration within and between museums, especially museums within the maritime sector. Is this a subject that we've talked about a lot previously? I know we've had Dominic Jones before as our number one most listened episode talking about collaboration in the sector, but it's a subject I think is really worthwhile talking about. Paul Marden: Understanding how museums work together, how they can stretch their resources, increase their reach by working together and achieving greater things than they can do individually. I do need to apologise to you, because it's been a few weeks since our last episode, and there's been lots going on in Rubber Cheese HQ, we have recently become part of a larger organisation, Crowd Convert, along with our new sister organisation, the ticketing company, Merac.Paul Marden:  So there's been lots of work for me and Andy Povey, my partner in crime, as we merge the two businesses together. Hence why there's been a little bit of a lapse between episodes. But the good news is we've got tonight's episode. We've got one more episode where I'll be heading down to Bristol, and I'll talk a little bit more about that later on, and then we're going to take our usual summer hiatus before we start the next season. So two more episodes to go, and I'm really excited. Paul Marden:  Without further ado, I think it's time for us to meet our guests tonight. Let me welcome our guests for this evening. Matthew Tanner, the Vice President of AIM and an Independent Consultant within the museum sector. You've also got a role within international museums as well. Matthew, remind me what that was.Matthew Tanner: That's right, I was president of the International Congress of Maritime Museums.Paul Marden: And that will be relevant later. I'm sure everyone will hear. Richard Morsley, CEO of Chatham Historic Dockyard Trust. I've got Hannah Prowse with me, the CEO of Portsmouth Historic Quarter, the inimitable chief cheerleader for Skip the Queue Dominic Jones, CEO of Mary Rose Trust.Dominic Jones: Great to be back.Paul Marden: I expect this to be the number one episode because, you know, it's got to knock your previous episode off the hit list.Dominic Jones: Listen with guests like this. It's going to be the number one. You've got the big hitters, and you've even got one more to go. This is gonna be incredible.Paul Marden:  Exactly. And I've got Andrew Baines, the Executive Director Museum Operations at the National Museum of the Royal Navy. That's quite a title.Dominic Jones: He loves a title that's a lot shorter than the last.Paul Marden: Okay, so we always have icebreakers. And actually, it must be said, listeners, you, unless you're watching the YouTube, we've got the the perfect icebreaker because we've started on Prosecco already. So I'm feeling pretty lubed up. Cheers. So icebreakers, and I'm going to be fair to you, I'm not going to pick on you individually this time, which is what I would normally do with my victims. I'm going to ask you, and you can chime in when you feel you've got the right answer. So first of all, I'd like to hear what the best concert or festival is that you've been to previously.Hannah Prowse: That's really easy for me, as the proud owner of two teenage daughters, I went Tay Tay was Slay. Slay. It was amazing. Three hours of just sheer performative genius and oh my god, that girl stamina. It was just insane. So yeah, it's got to be Tay Tay.Paul Marden: Excellent. That's Taylor Swift. For those of you that aren't aware and down with the kids, if you could live in another country for a year, what would Dominic Jones: We not all answer the gig. I've been thinking of a gig. Well, I was waiting. Do we not all answer one, Rich has got a gig. I mean, you can't just give it to Hannah. Richard, come in with your gig.Richard Morsley: Thank you. So I can't say it's the best ever, but. It was pretty damn awesome. I went to see pulp at the O2 on Saturday night. They were amazing. Are they still bringing it? They were amazing. Incredible. Transport me back.Matthew Tanner:  Members mentioned the Mary Rose song. We had this.Dominic Jones: Oh, come on, Matthew, come on. That was brilliant. That was special. I mean, for me, I'm not allowed to talk about it. It's probably end ups. But you know, we're not allowed to talk you know, we're not allowed to talk about other than here. But I'm taking my kids, spoiler alert, if you're listening to see Shawn Mendes in the summer. So that will be my new favourite gig, because it's the first gig for my kids. So I'm very excited about that. That's amazing. Amazing. Andrew, any gigs?Andrew Baines: It has to be Blondie, the amazing. Glen Beck writing 2019, amazing.Dominic Jones:  Can you get any cooler? This is going to be the number one episode, I can tell.Paul Marden:  Okay, let's go with number two. If you could live in another country for a year, which one would you choose? Hannah Prowse: Morocco. Paul Marden: Really? Oh, so you're completely comfortable with the heat. As I'm wilting next.Hannah Prowse: Completely comfortable. I grew up in the Middle East, my as an expat brat, so I'm really happy out in the heat. I just love the culture, the art, the landscape, the food, the prices, yeah, Morocco. For me, I thinkMatthew Tanner: I've been doing quite a lot of work recently in Hong Kong. Oh, wow. It's this amazing mix of East and West together. There's China, but where everybody speaks English, which is fantastic.Dominic Jones:  I lived in Hong Kong for a few years, and absolutely loved it. So I do that. But I think if I could choose somewhere to live, it's a it's a bit of cheating answer, because the country's America, but the place is Hawaii, because I think I'm meant for Hawaii. I think I've got that sort of style with how I dress, not today, because you are but you can get away with it. We're hosting, so. Paul Marden:  Last one hands up, if you haven't dived before, D with Dom.Dominic Jones: But all of your listeners can come Dive the 4d at the Mary Rose in Portsmouth Historic Dockyard, as well as the other amazing things you can do here with our friends and National Museum of Portsmouth Historic Quarter, he will cut this bit out.Paul Marden:  Yeah, there will be a little bit of strict editing going on. And that's fair. So we want to talk a little bit today about collaboration within the Maritime Museum collective as we've got. I was saying on the intro, I don't actually know what the collective noun is for a group of Maritime Museum leaders, a wave?Hannah Prowse: A desperation?Paul Marden: Let's start with we've talked previously. I know on your episode with Kelly, you talked about collaboration here in the dockyard, but I think it's really important to talk a little bit about how Mary Rose, Portsmouth Historic Dockyard and the National Museum of the Royal Navy all work together. So talk a little bit for listeners that don't know about the collaboration that you've all got going. Dominic Jones:  We've got a wonderful thing going on, and obviously Hannah and Andrew will jump in. But we've got this great site, which is Portsmouth Historic Dockyard. We've got Portsmouth Historic Quarter that sort of curates, runs, owns the site, and I'll let Hannah come into that. We've got the Mary Rose, which is my favourite, amazing museum, and then we've got all of the museums and ships to the National Museum of the Royal Navy. But do you want to go first, Hannah, and talk about sort of what is Portsmouth Historic Quarter and the dockyard to you? Hannah Prowse:  Yeah, so at Portsmouth Historic Quarter, we are the landlords of the site, and ultimately have custody of this and pretty hard over on the other side of the water. And it's our job to curate the space, make sure it's accessible to all and make it the most spectacular destination that it can be. Where this point of debate interest and opportunity is around the destination versus attraction debate. So obviously, my partners here run amazing attractions, and it's my job to cite those attractions in the best destination that it can possibly be.Matthew Tanner: To turn it into a magnet that drawsDominic Jones: And the infrastructure. I don't know whether Hannah's mentioned it. She normally mentions it every five seconds. Have you been to the new toilets? Matthew, have you been to these new toilets?Paul Marden: Let's be honest, the highlight of a museum. Richard Morsley: Yeah, get that wrong. We're in trouble.Hannah Prowse: It's very important. Richard Morsley: But all of the amazing ships and museums and you have incredible.Paul Marden: It's a real draw, isn't it? And you've got quite a big estate, so you you've got some on the other side of the dockyard behind you with boat trips that we take you over.Andrew Baines:  Absolutely. So we run Victor here and warrior and 33 on the other side of the hub with the Royal Navy submarine museum explosion working in partnership with BHQ. So a really close collaboration to make it as easy as possible for people to get onto this site and enjoy the heritage that we are joint custodians of. Paul Marden:  Yeah, absolutely. It's amazing. So we're talking a little bit about museums collaborating together, which really is the essence of what we're here for conference, isn't it? I remember when we had the keynote this morning, we were talking about how important it is for everybody to come together. There's no egos here. Everyone's sharing the good stuff. And it was brilliant as well. Given that you're all maritime museums, is it more important for you to differentiate yourselves from one another and compete, or is it more important for you to collaborate?Richard Morsley: Well, from my perspective, it's there is certainly not competitive. I think there's sufficient, I was sufficient distance, I think, between the the attractions for that to be the case, and I think the fact we're all standing here today with a glass of wine in hand, with smiles on our face kind of says, says a lot, actually, in terms of the collaboration within the sector. And as you say that the the AIM conference today that for me, is right, right at the heart of it, it's how we as an independent museum sector, all come together, and we share our knowledge, we share our best practice, and once a year, we have this kind of amazing celebration of these incredible organisations and incredible people coming together and having a wonderful couple of days. Matthew Tanner: But if I could step in there, it's not just the wine, is it rum, perhaps. The maritime sector in particular is one that is is so closely knit and collected by the sea, really. So in the international context, with the International Congress, is about 120 museums. around the world that come together every two years into the fantastic Congress meetings, the connections between these people have come from 1000s of miles away so strong, it's actually joy and reminds us of why we are so excited about the maritime.Paul Marden: I saw you on LinkedIn last year. I think it was you had Mystic Seaport here, didn't you?Dominic Jones: We did and we've had Australia. We've had so many. It all came from the ICM conference I went with and we had such a good time, didn't we saw Richard there. We saw Matthew, and it was just brilliant. And there's pinch yourself moments where you're with museums that are incredible, and then afterwards they ring you and ask you for advice. I'm thinking like there's a lady from France ringing me for advice. I mean, what's that about? I passed her to Andrew.Hannah Prowse: I think also from a leadership perspective, a lot of people say that, you know, being a CEO is the loneliest job in the world, but actually, if you can reach out and have that network of people who actually are going through the same stuff that you're going through, and understand the sector you're working in. It's really, really great. So if I'm having a rubbish day, Dom and I will frequently meet down in the gardens outside between our two offices with a beer or an ice cream and just go ah at each other. And that's really important to be able to do.Dominic Jones: And Hannah doesn't laugh when I have a crisis. I mean, she did it once. She did it and it hurt my feelings.Hannah Prowse: It was really funny.Dominic Jones:  Well, laughter, Dominic, Hannah Prowse: You needed. You needed to be made. You did. You did. But you know, and Richard and I have supported each other, and occasionally.Richard Morsley: You know, you're incredibly helpful when we're going through a recruitment process recently.Hannah Prowse: Came and sat in on his interview.Richard Morsley: We were rogue. Hannah Prowse: We were so bad, we should never be allowed to interview today. Paul Marden:  I bet you were just there taking a list of, yeah, they're quite good. I'm not going to agree to that one.Hannah Prowse: No, it was, it was great, and it's lovely to have other people who are going through the same stuff as you that you can lean on. Richard Morsley: Yeah, absolutely.Dominic Jones: Incredible. It's such an important sector, as Matthew said, and we are close, the water doesn't divide us. It makes us it makes us stronger.Matthew Tanner: Indeed. And recently, of course, there's increasing concern about the state of the marine environment, and maritime museums are having to take on that burden as well, to actually express to our puppets. It's not just about the ships and about the great stories. It's also about the sea. It's in excess, and we need to look after it. Paul Marden: Yeah, it's not just a view backwards to the past. It's around how you take that and use that as a model to go forward. Matthew Tanner: Last week, the new David Attenborough piece about the ocean 26 marathon museums around the world, simultaneously broadcasting to their local audiences. Dominic Jones: And it was phenomenal. It was such a good film. It was so popular, and the fact that we, as the Mary Rose, could host it thanks to being part of ICM, was just incredible. Have you seen it? Paul Marden:  I've not seen Dominic Jones: It's coming to Disney+, any day now, he's always first to know it's on. There you go. So watch it there. It's so good. Paul Marden: That's amazing. So you mentioned Disney, so that's a kind of an outside collaboration. Let's talk a little bit. And this is a this is a rubbish segue, by the way. Let's talk a little bit about collaborating outside of the sector itself, maybe perhaps with third party rights holders, because I know that you're quite pleased with your Lego exhibition at the moment.Richard Morsley: I was actually going to jump in there. Dominic, because you've got to be careful what you post on LinkedIn. There's no such thing as I don't know friends Exactly. Really.Dominic Jones: I was delighted if anyone was to steal it from us, I was delighted it was you. Richard Morsley: And it's been an amazing exhibition for us. It's bringing bringing Lego into the Historic Dockyard Chatham. I think one of the one of the things that we sometimes lack is that that thing that's kind of truly iconic, that the place is iconic, the site is incredible, but we don't have that household name. We don't have a Mary Rose. We don't have a victory. So actually working in partnership, we might get there later. We'll see how the conversation, but yeah, how we work with third parties, how we use third party IP and bring that in through exhibitions, through programming. It's really important to us. So working at a Lego brick Rex exhibition, an exhibition that really is a museum exhibition, but also tells the story of three Chatham ships through Lego, it's absolutely perfect for us, and it's performed wonderfully. It's done everything that we would have hoped it would be. Dominic Jones: I'm bringing the kids in the summer. I love Chatham genuinely. I know he stole the thing from LinkedIn, but I love Chatham. So I'll be there. I'll be there. I'll spend money in the shop as well.Richard Morsley: Buy a book. Yeah.Paul Marden: Can we buy Lego? Richard Morsley:  Of course you can buy Lego. Paul Marden: So this is a this is a magnet. It is sucking the kids into you, but I bet you're seeing something amazing as they interpret the world that they've seen around them at the museum in the Lego that they can play with.Richard Morsley: Of some of some of the models that are created off the back of the exhibition by these children is remind and adults actually, but mainly, mainly the families are amazing, but and you feel awful at the end of the day to painstakingly take them apart.Richard Morsley: Where is my model?Dominic Jones: So we went to see it in the Vasa, which is where he stole the idea from. And I decided to, sneakily, when they were doing that, take a Charles model that was really good and remodel it to look like the Mary Rose, and then post a picture and say, I've just built the Mary Rose. I didn't build the Mary Rose. Some Swedish person bought the Mary Rose. I just added the flags. You get what you say. Hannah Prowse: We've been lucky enough to be working with the Lloyds register foundation this year, and we've had this brilliant she sees exhibition in boathouse four, which is rewriting women into maritime history. So the concept came from Lloyd's Register, which was, you know, the untold stories of women in maritime working with brilliant photographers and textile designers to tell their stories. And they approached me and said, "Can we bring this into the dockyard?" And we said, "Yes, but we'd really love to make it more local." And they were an amazing partner. And actually, what we have in boathouse for is this phenomenal exhibition telling the stories of the women here in the dockyard.Richard Morsley: And then going back to that point about collaboration, not competition, that exhibition, then comes to Chatham from February next year, but telling, telling Chatham stories instead of. Hannah Prowse:  Yeah, Richard came to see it here and has gone, "Oh, I love what you've done with this. Okay, we can we can enhance, we can twist it." So, you know, I've hoped he's going to take our ideas and what we do with Lloyd's and make it a million times better.Richard Morsley: It's going to be an amazing space.Dominic Jones: Richard just looks at LinkedIn and gets everyone's ideas.Andrew Baines: I think one of the exciting things is those collaborations that people will be surprised by as well. So this summer, once you've obviously come to Portsmouth Historic Dockyard and experience the joys of that, and then you've called off on Chatham and another day to see what they've got there, you can go off to London Zoo, and we are working in partnership with London Zoo, and we have a colony of Death Watch beetle on display. Paul Marden:  Oh, wonderful. I mean, can you actually hear them? Dominic Jones: Not necessarily the most exciting.Andrew Baines: I'll grant you. But you know, we've got a Chelsea gold medal on in the National Museum of the Royal Navy for collaboration with the Woodlands Foundation, looking at Sudden Oak death. And we've got an exhibition with ZSL at London Zoo, which I don't think anybody comes to a National Maritime Museum or an NMRN National Museum The Royal Navy, or PHQ, PhD, and expects to bump into tiny little animals, no, butDominic Jones: I love that, and it's such an important story, the story of Victor. I mean, look, you're both of you, because Matthew's involved with Victor as well. Your victory preservation and what you're doing is incredible. And the fact you can tell that story, it's LSL, I love that.Andrew Baines: Yeah. And we're actually able to feed back into the sector. And one of the nice things is, we know we talk about working collaboratively, but if you look at the victory project, for example, our project conservator came down the road from Chatham, equally, which you one of.Richard Morsley: Our your collections manager.Paul Marden: So it's a small pool and you're recycling.Andrew Baines: Progression and being people in develop and feed them on.Matthew Tanner:  The open mindedness, yeah, taking and connecting from all over, all over the world, when I was working with for the SS Great Britain, which is the preserved, we know, great iron steam chip, preserved as as he saw her, preserved in a very, very dry environment. We'll take technology for that we found in the Netherlands in a certain seeds factory where they had to, they had to package up their seeds in very, very low humidity environments.Paul Marden:  Yes, otherwise you're gonna get some sprouting going on. Matthew Tanner:   Exactly. That's right. And that's the technology, which we then borrowed to preserve a great historic ship. Paul Marden: I love that. Dominic Jones:  And SS Great Britain is amazing, by the way you did such a good job there. It's one of my favourite places to visit. So I love that.Paul Marden:  I've got a confession to make. I'm a Somerset boy, and I've never been.Dominic Jones: Have you been to yoga list? Oh yeah, yeah. I was gonna say.Paul Marden: Yeah. I am meeting Sam Mullins at the SS Great Britain next next week for our final episode of the season. Matthew Tanner: There you go.Dominic Jones: And you could go to the where they made the sale. What's the old court canvas or Corker Canvas is out there as well. There's so many amazing places down that neck of the woods. It's so good.Paul Marden: Quick segue. Let's talk. Let's step away from collaboration, or only very lightly, highlights of today, what was your highlight talk or thing that you've seen?Richard Morsley: I think for me, it really was that focus on community and engagement in our places and the importance of our institutions in the places that we're working. So the highlight, absolutely, for me, opening this morning was the children's choir as a result of the community work that the Mary Rose trust have been leading, working.Dominic Jones:  Working. So good. Richard Morsley: Yeah, fabulous. Paul Marden:  Absolutely. Matthew Tanner: There's an important point here about about historic ships which sometimes get kind of positioned or landed by developers alongside in some ports, as if that would decorate a landscape. Ships actually have places. Yes, they are about they are connected to the land. They're not just ephemeral. So each of these ships that are here in Portsmouth and the others we've talked about actually have roots in their home ports and the people and the communities that they served. They may well have roots 1000s of miles across the ocean as well, makes them so exciting, but it's a sense of place for a ship. Hannah Prowse: So I think that all of the speakers were obviously phenomenal.Dominic Jones: And including yourself, you were very good.Hannah Prowse: Thank you. But for me, this is a slightly random one, but I always love seeing a group of people coming in and watching how they move in the space. I love seeing how people interact with the buildings, with the liminal spaces, and where they have where they run headlong into something, where they have threshold anxiety. So when you have a condensed group of people, it's something like the AIM Conference, and then they have points that they have to move around to for the breakout sessions. But then watching where their eyes are drawn, watching where they choose to go, and watching how people interact with the heritage environment I find really fascinating. Paul Marden: Is it like flocks of birds? What are moving around in a space? Hannah Prowse: Exactly. Yeah.Paul Marden: I say, this morning, when I arrived, I immediately joined a queue. I had no idea what the queue was, and I stood there for two minutes.Dominic Jones: I love people in the joint queues, we normally try and sell you things.Paul Marden: The person in front of me, and I said, "What we actually queuing for?" Oh, it's the coffee table. Oh, I don't need coffee. See you later. Yes.Dominic Jones: So your favourite bit was the queue. Paul Marden: My favourite..Dominic Jones: That's because you're gonna plug Skip the Queue. I love it.Dominic Jones: My favourite moment was how you divided the conference on a generational boundary by talking about Kojak.Dominic Jones: Kojak? Yes, it was a gamble, because it was an old film, and I'll tell you where I saw it. I saw it on TV, and the Mary Rose have got it in their archives. So I said, Is there any way I could get this to introduce me? And they all thought I was crazy, but I think it worked. But my favorite bit, actually, was just after that, when we were standing up there and welcoming everyone to the conference. Because for four years, we've been talking about doing this for three years. We've been arranging it for two years. It was actually real, and then the last year has been really scary. So for us to actually pull it off with our partners, with the National Museum of the Royal Navy, with Portsmouth Historic quarter, with all of our friends here, was probably the proudest moment for me. So for me, I loved it. And I'm not going to lie, when the children were singing, I was a little bit emotional, because I was thinking, this is actually happened. This is happening. So I love that, and I love tonight. Tonight's going to be amazing. Skip the queue outside Dive, the Mary Rose 4d come and visit. He won't edit that out. He won't edit that out. He can't keep editing Dive, The Mary Rose.Dominic Jones: Andrew, what's his favourite? Andrew Baines: Oh yes. Well, I think it was the kids this morning, just for that reminder when you're in the midst of budgets and visitor figures and ticket income and development agreements, and why is my ship falling apart quicker than I thought it was going to fall apart and all those kind of things actually just taking that brief moment to see such joy and enthusiasm for the next generation. Yeah, here directly connected to our collections and that we are both, PHQ, NRN supported, MRT, thank you both really just a lovely, lovely moment.Paul Marden: 30 kids singing a song that they had composed, and then backflip.Dominic Jones: It was a last minute thing I had to ask Jason. Said, Jason, can you stand to make sure I don't get hit? That's why I didn't want to get hit, because I've got a precious face. Hannah Prowse: I didn't think the ship fell apart was one of the official parts of the marketing campaign.Paul Marden: So I've got one more question before we do need to wrap up, who of your teams have filled in the Rubber Cheese Website Survey. Dominic Jones: We, as Mary Rose and Ellen, do it jointly as Portsmouth historic document. We've done it for years. We were an early adopter. Of course, we sponsored it. We even launched it one year. And we love it. And actually, we've used it in our marketing data to improve loads of things. So since that came out, we've made loads of changes. We've reduced the number of clicks we've done a load of optimum website optimisation. It's the best survey for visitor attractions. I feel like I shouldn't be shouting out all your stuff, because that's all I do, but it is the best survey.Paul Marden: I set you up and then you just ran so we've got hundreds of people arriving for this evening's event. We do need to wrap this up. I want one last thing, which is, always, we have a recommendation, a book recommendation from Nepal, and the first person to retweet the message on Bluesky will be offered, of course, a copy of the book. Does anyone have a book that they would like to plug of their own or, of course, a work or fiction that they'd like to recommend for the audience.Paul Marden: And we're all looking at you, Matthew.Dominic Jones: Yeah. Matthew is the book, man you're gonna recommend. You'reAndrew Baines: The maritime.Paul Marden: We could be absolutely that would be wonderful.Matthew Tanner: Two of them jump into my mind, one bit more difficult to read than the other, but the more difficult to read. One is Richard Henry. Dana D, a n, a, an American who served before the mast in the 19th century as an ordinary seaman on a trading ship around the world and wrote a detailed diary. It's called 10 years before the mast. And it's so authentic in terms of what it was really like to be a sailor going around Cape corn in those days. But the one that's that might be an easier gift is Eric Newby, the last great grain race, which was just before the Second World War, a journalist who served on board one of the last great Windjammers, carrying grain from Australia back to Europe and documenting his experience higher loft in Gales get 17 knots in his these giant ships, absolute white knuckle rides. Paul Marden: Perfect, perfect. Well, listeners, if you'd like a copy of Matthew's book recommendation, get over to blue sky. Retweet the post that Wenalyn will put out for us. I think the last thing that we really need to do is say cheers and get on with the rest of the year. Richard Morsley: Thank you very much. Andrew Baines: Thank you.Paul Marden: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others to find us. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them to increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcripts from this episode and more over on our website, skipthequeue fm.  The 2025 Visitor Attraction Website Survey is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsTake the Rubber Cheese Visitor Attraction Website Survey Report

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Dave Norton, and Joe Pine discuss fashion group Zara's innovative travel mode, which allows users to shop for products while traveling. They explore the concept of 'modes'—temporary mindsets and behaviors that influence customer experiences—and how Zara's travel mode can enhance customer engagement. The conversation delves into the importance of context, opportunities for improvement, and the potential for community building through social media. The hosts emphasize the dynamic nature of modes and the need for behavioral science to further explore this concept. Takeaways Zara's travel mode allows shopping while traveling. Modes are temporary mindsets that influence behavior. Travel mode operates without internet access, enhancing usability. Anticipating customer context is crucial for effective modes. Supporting customer modes can create more buying opportunities. Zara's travel mode is a key conversion strategy. Leveraging community and social media can enhance customer experience. Zara should focus on its strengths in fashion. Behavioral science should study modes more extensively. The dynamic nature of modes offers opportunities for brands. Chapters 00:00Exploring Zara's Travel Mode Initiative 06:01Understanding Human Modes vs. Technology Modes 08:45The Importance of Context in Customer Experience 14:49Evaluating the Effectiveness of Zara's App Features 17:43Leveraging Community and Social Media for Engagement 20:47The Role of Behavioral Science in Understanding Modes 26:46Future Directions and Listener Engagement

How should pet sitters adapt as client expectations shift? Camp Bow Wow is celebrating 25 years as a market leader in daycare and boarding. Their recent brand refresh and national pet parent survey offer valuable clues about where the pet care consumer mindset is heading — and what we, as dog walkers and pet sitters, can learn to better serve clients and compete in an increasingly emotional and experience-driven marketplace. In this episode, we explore insights from the survey, including the rise of the emotional experience economy, the power of community connection, and the growing demand for convenience and polished brands. We share why marketing outcomes—not just tasks—is now essential, and how refining the client experience can help us stand out. With practical examples, we discuss how small pet care businesses can thrive alongside big brands by leaning into our unique strengths. Main Topics Rise of the emotional experience economy Shifting client expectations for pet care Building community and client connection Marketing outcomes vs. checklists Streamlining client experience through tech and branding Main Takeaway: Pet care is no longer about just checking the box of functional care. It's about selling the emotional experience and outcomes. Too often, we focus our marketing on what we do—feeding pets, walking dogs, refreshing water bowls. But today's pet parents crave more than checklists; they want an experience. They want joy, enrichment, and peace of mind—for their pets and themselves. When you show them how your care brings happiness to their pets and reduces their own stress, you elevate your business beyond tasks. Don't just market what you do—market how you make them feel. Links: Check out our Starter Packs See all of our discounts! Check out ProTrainings Code: CPR-petsitterconfessional for 10% off

In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton discuss a Wall Street Journal article written by Jennifer Williams about retail, focusing on how major brands are intentionally slowing down the shopping experience to enhance customer engagement. They explore the importance of creating meaningful experiences, the lessons learned from Toys R Us, and the need for authenticity in retail strategies. The conversation emphasizes measuring success beyond traditional sales metrics and highlights the future of experience-led brands. Takeaways The longer someone spends in a store, the more likely they are to convert into a purchaser. Retailers are adding experiences to encourage customers to linger longer. Time well spent is a key concept in enhancing customer experience. Experiences must be meaningful and relevant to the brand. Toys R Us failed to create relevant experiences for their target audience. Lego gets it. Camp.com gets it. Retail success should be measured by time value, not just sales per square foot. Authenticity in brand experiences is crucial for customer loyalty. Walmart is evolving to compete with experiential brands. Experience-led brands can charge for their unique offerings. Read More: https://www.wsj.com/articles/shop-slow-spend-more-the-retailers-hoping-that-customers-linger-0c87ea24?st=etbsMd&reflink=desktopwebshare_permalink https://camp.com Register for the free membership in the Collaboratives here: https://www.thecollaboratives.com/contest Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

On this episode of Human Centered, host Nick Brunker welcomes Nick Yecke, Executive Director of Experience Strategy at VML, to explore the fascinating evolution of customer experience (CX). Inspired by Yecke's recent article in eXp Magazine, they chart a course through CX's history, from the early "Service Era" and "Satisfaction Era" through the "Relationship Era" and the current "Experience Economy." The conversation then dives deep into what Yecke terms the "Predictive and Autonomous Era," where AI, data analytics, and automation are set to reshape how businesses anticipate and fulfill customer needs proactively. They discuss key pillars like hyper-personalization, AI-driven self-service, emotion and context recognition, "Invisible CX," and the critical importance of ethical considerations and trust in this new landscape. Tune in to understand how the lessons of the past are shaping a future where CX becomes more intuitive, efficient, and deeply human-centered.You can read Nick Yecke's article, "Looking Back, Looking Forward," in eXp Magazine here, beginning on page 48.

Summary In this episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, hosts Aransas Savas, Joe Pine, and Dave Norton delve into the strategic genius of Taylor Swift, exploring how her approach transcends music to embody principles of experience strategy. They discuss her emotional connection with fans, authenticity, and the aspirational roles she plays for her audience, particularly young women. The conversation highlights the economic impact of her experiences and the lessons that can be drawn for businesses in the experience economy.   Takeaways Taylor Swift's success is rooted in her emotional connection with fans. Her strategies reflect core principles of innovation and experience strategy Authenticity is key to maintaining relevance and trust with consumers. Super consumers are emotionally connected and deeply involved with the experience. Taylor Swift's evolution showcases the importance of staying true to oneself while innovating. Mentorship and community are significant aspects of her appeal to young women. Experiential engagement creates lasting memories and connections for audiences. The economic impact of her tours demonstrates the value of experiences. Her collaborations highlight the balance between authenticity and innovation. Taylor Swift serves as a modern case study for experience strategy in action.   Chapters 00:00 Introduction to Experience Strategy Podcast 01:24 Exploring Taylor Swift's Strategic Genius 05:36 Emotional Connection and Authenticity in Experience 10:32 Principles of Authenticity and Evolution 15:28 Aspirational Jobs and Mentorship 20:05 Experiential Engagement and Economic Impact Read more here: https://hbr.org/2025/03/the-strategic-genius-of-taylor-swift Register for the free membership in the Collaboratives here: https://www.thecollaboratives.com/contest Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here:  https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com    

In this episode of DevelopLex, we sit down with Burgess Carey, a multi-generational Lexingtonian, developer, and visionary behind some of Central Kentucky's most forward-thinking real estate and recreation projects. From pioneering self-storage development to reclaiming a forgotten gorge to launch Boone Creek Outdoors, Burgess shares a rare blend of entrepreneurial grit, environmental stewardship, and deep civic insight.We explore Lexington's unique development challenges - from zoning hurdles to greenbelt restrictions - and why the future will require creative, regional collaboration. Whether he's automating flex industrial spaces or building sustainable treehouse retreats, Burgess brings clarity, purpose, and originality to the local development conversation.--Core Themes Discussed:Lexington at a Crossroads: The city is vibrant—but at a pivotal moment. The next 50 years depend on how we balance preservation and progress.From Self-Storage to Sustainability: Burgess shares how he transformed an overlooked niche into a scalable model—and why tech is changing everything.Reimagining Green Space: Not all ag land is horse farms. Burgess challenges Lexington to create interactive, publicly accessible outdoor destinations.Experience Economy in Action: Boone Creek Outdoors proves development can be immersive, environmentally regenerative, and economically sustainable.Advice for Aspiring Developers: Read the zoning code, follow the community conversation, and don't force a deal—if it doesn't pencil, walk away.--Highlights:Why Lexington was a self-storage pioneer long before Wall Street took noticeThe story behind Boone Creek's abandoned gas station, leaky fuel tanks, and trout-filled transformationWhat dynamic pricing and Bluetooth locks mean for the future of light industrial real estateHow the “contractor unit” market is changing—and why it's worth building forWhy regional planning, not just urban density, is key to solving housing and job shortages--Guest Bio:Burgess Carey is a Lexington-born developer, business owner, and founder of Boone Creek Outdoors. From building self-storage facilities in the early ‘90s to leading eco-tourism and flex industrial projects today, he brings a rare depth of perspective to what it means to create lasting value for Central Kentucky.--Hosted by Weston Lockhart & Ross BoggessDevelopLex is proud to be supported by:SVN Stone Commercial Real EstateCommunity Trust BankCraftsman Contractors

Experiential marketing is transforming how brands connect with customers—and Aaron Vaccaro has been at the forefront of this movement. From helping scale Topgolf into a billion-dollar experiential brand to reimagining cocktail culture with Liquor Lab, Aaron brings deep insights into how experiences, not just products, are winning consumer loyalty.In this episode, we unpack the power of experiential marketing and how it answers key questions for brands:How do I stand out in an oversaturated digital ad world?How can I create real, memorable customer moments?What does it take to scale a physical experience brand like Topgolf or Liquor Lab?How do I use AI in entrepreneurship to scale without sacrificing quality?Aaron shares proven strategies from his work in venture capital, scaling startups, and investing in both inevitable technologies like AI and enduring experiences like golf and mixology. Whether you're a tech founder, marketer, or consumer brand builder, this episode offers a rare look into creating immersive brand stories that actually convert.Aaron's insights are practical and tailored for founders, operators, and marketers navigating how to:Use experiential marketing to create authentic, lasting brand loyaltyLeverage AI for business scalingCombine digital tools with physical experiencesDesign customer touchpoints that feel human, personal, and powerful00:00 – Intro to Aaron Vaccaro & Background01:30 – From West River Group to Topgolf03:00 – Building Topgolf's Experiential Empire05:00 – Liquor Lab: Making Cocktails Approachable07:30 – The Experience Economy vs. Experiential Marketing10:00 – Why AI is a Game-Changer for Scaling Human-Centered Brands13:00 – Secrets to Memorable Moments in Hospitality16:00 – Scaling Physical Brands Like Topgolf & Liquor Lab19:00 – Where to Connect with Aaron VaccaroTo connect with Aaron, visit: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aaronvaccaro/To check out the YouTube (video podcast), visit: https://www.youtube.com/@drchrisloomdphdDisclaimer: Not advice. Educational purposes only. Not an endorsement for or against. Results not vetted. Views of the guests do not represent those of the host or show.  Click here to join PodMatch (the "AirBNB" of Podcasting): https://www.joinpodmatch.com/drchrisloomdphdWe couldn't do it without the support of our listeners. To help support the show:CashApp- https://cash.app/$drchrisloomdphdVenmo- https://account.venmo.com/u/Chris-Loo-4Spotify- https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/christopher-loo/supportBuy Me a Coffee- https://www.buymeacoffee.com/chrisJxClick here to schedule a 1-on-1 private coaching call: https://www.drchrisloomdphd.com/book-onlineClick here to check out our bookstore, e-courses, and workshops: https://www.drchrisloomdphd.com/shopClick here to purchase my books on Amazon: https://amzn.to/2PaQn4pFor audiobooks, visit: https://www.audible.com/author/Christopher-H-Loo-MD-PhD/B07WFKBG1FFollow our YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/chL1357Follow us on Twitter: https://www.twitter.com/drchrisloomdphdFollow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thereal_drchrislooFollow us on Threads: https://www.threads.net/@thereal_drchrislooFollow us on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@drchrisloomddphdFollow our Blog: https://www.drchrisloomdphd.com/blogFollow the podcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3NkM6US7cjsiAYTBjWGdx6?si=1da9d0a17be14d18Subscribe to our Substack newsletter: https://substack.com/@drchrisloomdphd1Subscribe to our Medium newsletter: https://medium.com/@drchrisloomdphdSubscribe to our LinkedIn newsletter: https://www.linkedin.com/build-relation/newsletter-follow?entityUrn=6992935013231071233Subscribe to our email list: https://financial-freedom-podcast-with-dr-loo.kit.com/Thank you to all of our sponsors and advertisers that help support the show!Financial Freedom for Physicians, Copyright 2025

In today's market, it's not just about what you sell—it's about the experience you create. In this episode of Wise Investor Segment, host Matty A. dives into the Experience Economy and reveals why businesses that prioritize customer journeys and unique experiences are the ones making millions. Learn how top brands and real estate investors leverage this powerful strategy to attract loyal customers, increase profits, and stand out from the competition. Whether you're in commercial real estate, entrepreneurship, or investing, this episode will show you how to create value beyond just transactions. Tune in now to discover how crafting unforgettable experiences can be your ultimate wealth-building strategy! Episode Sponsored By: Discover Financial Millionaire Mindcast Shop: Buy the Rich Life Planner and Get the Wealth-Building Bundle for FREE! Visit: https://shop.millionairemindcast.com/ CRE MASTERMIND: Visit myfirst50k.com and submit your application to join! FREE CRE Crash Course: Text “FREE” to 844-447-1555