Podcasts about The Experience Economy

Featured article: "Wellness Tourism Could Top 900 Billion in 2030. Luxury Hotels Are Racing to Keep Up." — Forbes A Forbes feature highlighting 12 luxury hotels leading the wellness tourism shift — immersive White Lotus–style programming, longevity-driven design, destination spa experiences — opens the door to one of the most consequential conversations on the show this year. Wellness tourism is on track to hit nearly $900 billion by 2030. The architecture is gorgeous. The marketing is aspirational. But the strategic story underneath is bigger than any single hotel. Joe, Dave, and Aransas use the article as a launch point to talk about what luxury actually means now, why reflection is the highest-leverage cost-free upgrade an experience stager can make, why integration therapists are showing up at high-end destinations, and what the White Lotus effect tells us about the power of the guide. Key Ideas Place is the offer. The most successful destinations are not selling generic luxury — they are repositioning their authentic environments as wellness solutions. Sedona sells healing rituals. Greece sells the water. Aransas's framing: these hotels immerse you in a film, a script, an aspirational lifestyle you have already seen on Netflix. The destination becomes the set, and you get to step into the story. The MGM prediction came true. Joe takes the show back to 2000–2002, when he told MGM in Las Vegas that there would come a day when they made more revenue, and eventually more profit, off non-gaming experiences than off gaming. They thought he was crazy. The line crossed before 2010. Today the money-value-of-time per minute in the spa beats gaming. The Aria does not care if you skip the casino for the spa floor. Luxury is no longer about exclusivity. It is about transformation. Dave's reframe: luxury used to be the biggest diamond and the nicest car. Now it is who can go to Greece and walk away with better sleep, better biometrics, hormones optimized, and a body ready for the next experience. The shift is from possession to durable change. That is why the willingness to pay is climbing — the value compounds instead of fading on the flight home. The transformation stack. GLP-1s, biometrics, prevention, hormone optimization, longevity supplements, fitness tracking, anti-aging skincare — all converging inside hotels and spas. The result is not a vacation. It is a chrysalis. Joe's frame from the Rotterdam Third Place Summit: think of your place as a chrysalis between what your guest was before and what they are becoming, and help them through the change. Reflection is the highest-leverage upgrade in the experience economy. Dave names it clearly: the single biggest thing you can do to increase the value of an experience costs nothing. Get people to reflect. Joe builds on it from the work he and Aransas did at the Arival travel event in DC — reflection automatically and retroactively increases the value of the experience. It cements the memory, surfaces the impact, fuels the aspiration to come back, and turns guests into evangelists. It is the most consistently skipped step in experience staging today. The four-step transformation arc. From Joe's chapter on encapsulation in The Experience Economy: preparation (some academics call it preflexion), the experience itself, reflection, and integration. The fourth step is where most experience providers fall off — what happens after the guest leaves your property to keep the change taking root. Integration therapists are entering hospitality. Joe references a Wall Street Journal piece on luxury hotels hiring integration therapists — a model previously associated with ketamine therapy and plant medicine — to help guests integrate transformations they undertook elsewhere. Othership in Toronto and Brooklyn does the same thing for ayahuasca journeys done in the desert. The pattern is spreading. The White Lotus effect is really about the guide. Aransas's read on the most recent season: it makes the case, in narrative form, for how intimate and consequential the guide relationship can be inside a transformation setting. Some guides are destructive, some are generative. Either way, the show is teaching mainstream audiences to imagine what it would mean to travel with someone helping you become the next version of yourself. That imagination is what hotels are now being asked to deliver. A Useful Distinction Aransas's nuance on what counts as transformation: in your research, guests draw a hard line. A massage and a facial feel good. They are not transformation. Longevity — sustained, measurable, durable change — is transformation. The risk for the industry is selling the impression of transformation without delivering the underlying change. Beautiful sets, aspirational scripts, and no actual chrysalis. Memorable Moments Joe on the Aria: "It's a hundred degrees outside. We will keep you so pampered you won't want to leave." Dave: "Luxury used to be about who has the biggest diamond. Now it is about who can go to Greece and walk away with their sleep better, their biometrics better." Aransas: "You can't logic emotion, Joe." The Strategic Takeaway If you are in hospitality, third places, or any business adjacent to the transformation economy, the upgrade path is clear: Stop selling memorable experiences. Sell transporting ones — and inside the transport, design transformation. Pick the chrysalis you actually are. Place, ritual, regimen, guide — what specifically helps the guest move from before to after? Stage all four steps. Preparation, experience, reflection, integration. Reflection is free and almost no one does it. Start there. Treat the guide as a role, not a job title. The White Lotus audience is being trained to look for one. Subscribe and Continue the Conversation Find the show on theexperiencestrategist.substack.com, the podcast feed, and everywhere else. Got a topic you want us to dig into? Reach out on Substack. We are building the next round of episodes around what listeners are actually reading. And if you have a kid going to college this fall, Aransas would like to start a support group.

More than 25 years ago, management consultant Joseph Pine introduced a revolutionary concept he called the experience economy. It helped shape how companies would reframe their businesses, but also their approaches to customers. Pine described the economy as being divided into progressions of economic value, from the lowest, commodities, to goods or manufacturing, to services, and finally, experiences. Now he's introducing a fifth level of value, which he calls transformation. His new book is called The Transformation Economy. He joins host Amanda Lang.

On February 3rd, 2026, Joe Pine released The Transformation Economy, which is a follow-up to The Experience Economy co-written with James Gilmore and published in 1999. They identified a key pattern of how economic offerings have evolved beyond commodities, goods, and services, and moved into experiences as well as transformations. Their prescient predictions about these underlying patterns in the late '90s took many years of convincing businesses of their merits. But after a few decades, their core ideas of The Experience Economy have taken root, and now it is much easier to see how consumers have shown that they are willing to pay for memorable experiences. Now Pine is back at it again with The Transformation Economy with ideas that have been there from the very beginning, but he told me that the world wasn't ready yet, and he wasn't ready either. About 5-6 years ago, Pine started to hear from designers at World Experience Organization events talking about the transformative intent behind their experiences. This was the catalyst indicating to him that it was time to finally write this book, and he started researching the topics of aspiration, positive psychology, human flourishing, and the dynamics of transformation. I had a chance to interview Pine about The Transformation Economy, and in my write-up below I provide an overview of some of his biggest ideas, some of my personal reactions, how they relate to the XR industry, and finally some of my disagreements on where value comes from. Despite some of my philosophical disagreements with Pine, I still see a lot of value in the frameworks laid out in his book. He describes a roadmap towards a future where the core values driving a critical mass of businesses have evolved to focus on helping their customers fulfill their deepest aspirations, find meaning and purpose, and promote human flourishing. Progression of Economic Value Pine & Gilmore first theorized about a hierarchy of economic value in a 1997 article titled: "Beyond Goods and Services: Staging Experiences and Guiding Transformations." They originally called it "The Economic Pyramid," and described it by saying, "The inexorable march of competitive forces drives the advancement of economic offerings over time: commodities are extracted from the environment to make goods, then delivered as services, which are scripted to stage experiences, which then guide those persons or enterprises in a transformation." "The Progression of Economic Value" figure from page 3 of Pine's The Transformation Economy (2026). Within their "Welcome to the Experience Economy" article in the 1998 issue of Harvard Business Review and in their 1999 book The Experience Economy, they started calling it "The Progression of Economic Value" as shown in the figure above. In The Transformation Economy on page x, Pine describes each of the five distinct economic genres as well as their associated verb / function, Extract Commodities (fungible stuff) Make Goods (tangible things) Deliver Services (intangible activities) Stage Experiences (memorable events) Guide Transformations (effectual outcomes) There is an inevitable gravity towards commodification, and the antidote is customization. This insight first came to Pine in 1994 after he wrote a book in 1993 titled Mass Customization: The New Frontier in Business Competition that explored how Mass Production was moving into Mass Customization. When customization is applied to a service, then it yields an experience. When customization is applied to an experience, then it has the potential to yield a transformation that could be life-changing. Here's how Pine & Gilmore described this progression to transformations in their original 1997 article, "The way out of the commodization trap in which so many service companies find themselves is to move up an echelon of value and stage an experience. But experiences are not the utmost in economic offerings. Just as customizing a good automatically turns it into a service, so customizing an experience turns it into something distinct. If you design an experience so in tune with what an individual needs at an exact juncture in time, you cannot help but change that individual — guiding him to (and through) a life-transforming experience. Transformations are a fifth economic offering, whose value far exceeds that of any other." Pine also says in The Transformation Economy that "Eliminating human contact is a surefire way to commoditize yourself." Technology has an inclination to move more and more towards automation and creating "frictionless experiences," but I see the value of human intuition, emotion, relationality, community, and meaning being a differentiating factor in the transformation economy. I suspect that it will be really beneficial to deliberately embrace friction and tension that comes from interacting with other humans as explored in the piece called Deep Soup. I see the movement towards the transformational economy as a bit of an argument against automating too many things with AI because people will be craving authentic human contact. Key Concepts and My Personal Experience of The Transformation Economy The Transformation Economy book is written with the intention to become a transformational experience within itself. There are many pointed questions throughout the book that helped shape my overall framing through the lens of my business. My first reading of the book was focusing on trying to understand the origin, development, and evolution of Pine's provocative ideas to explore within my interview with him. My ongoing second reading of the book has catalyzed me to reconceive some fundamental notions around my identity, as well as the story of why I do what I do with The Voices of VR Podcast. So much of my work has been driven by a fundamental impulse to bring about change in the world. My motivation to cover the frontiers of emerging technology with XR, AI, immersive storytelling, and experiential design has been because I've seen the transformative power of embodied and immersive experiences to potentially bring about some meaningful changes in the world. I'm also very much drawn to philosophical frameworks like Process Philosophy that provide some key metaphysical foundations leading to a paradigm shift around the underlying nature of experience and reality itself. Here's a graphic from Andrew Davis' upcoming Whitehead's Universe book that lays out some of the scaffolding of this paradigm shift from substance metaphysics to process-relational metaphysics. Davis, Andrew M. (Forthcoming in 2026). Whitehead's Universe: A Prismatic Introduction. Orbis Books. One of the key concepts that really stuck with me from Pine's The Transformation Economy was at the beginning of the third chapter that says, "All transformation is identity change." Pine cites Suzy Ross' definition of identity as "all the ways you can complete the statement ‘I am . . .' " He says "From / To" statements are also key where you might say, "I was X, now I am Y." I really resonate with these definitions of identity since they're very flexible and practical. Once I became aware of these "I am ..." statements, then I started to hear them all the time. I found myself naturally making and reflecting upon identity statements, which provide clues to changes that I aspire to. As an example, I've often found myself saying something to the effect of "I'm more a knowledge artist than a viable business person." So in essence, my aspirational, identity-transformation statement is "I am a terrible business person, but I aspire to become a thriving independent scholar and transformational change agent." Reading through The Transformation Economy has been really inspiring since it's the first business book I've ever read where I can really see myself in these frameworks. Pine has been giving me language to articulate the possible futures that I'd love to live into, but yet the business models around the transformation economy are still nascent, uncertain, not very well specified, and rapidly developing. Each business will have a unique blend of commodities, goods, services, experiences, and/or transformations that they'll be offering, and so it is unlikely that there will be a universal formula that works across all contexts. I'm still meditating on this statement where Pine claims that your business is what you charge for. He says on page 22, "A business ultimately defines itself by what it charges for. If you charge for undifferentiated stuff, you're in the commodities business. If you charge for tangible things, you are in the goods business. If you charge for the activities your people do, you are in the services business. So, economically, you are in the experience business if and only if you charge for the time customers spend with you." Pine says that experiences are inherently ephemeral, and sometimes the only thing you keep from it is the memory, which can fade over time. He contrasts this with his definition of transformations, which he shares on page 10 as, "Transformations are effectual outcomes that change individuals in a lasting way. Where experiences are memorable, transformations are effectual." This implies that the business offering of transformations actually has more of an ongoing time commitment. Businesses in the transformation economy will be helping "aspirants" (Pine's preferred term for customers in the transformation economy) achieve their aspirations of transforming from one state into another state over longer periods of time. Aspirants will need to invest time, be patient with results, make progress, but also deal with periodic regressions. I've been reckoning with how I am what I charge for, and I can't help but think about the logistical difficulty in trying to escape the real-time accounting of how we've conceived of value delivered

In this episode of the Hort Culture Podcast, hosts Brett, Alexis, Jessica, and Ray are joined by returning guest Savannah Columbia to discuss her master's thesis research on specialty cut flower workshops, consumer behavior, and the rising "experience economy" within agritourism. Savannah framing her study around the concepts of search, experience, and credence goods, explains that hands-on agritourism activities—such as floral arrangement, wreath making, seed starting, and flower drying—function as "experience goods" because their quality and value can only be evaluated by consumers after the event takes place. She points out that consumer interest in these interactive farm experiences has risen sharply since COVID-19, aligning with massive growth in the cut flower industry; national census data shows a 60% increase in farms reporting cut flower sales, and Kentucky's own cut flower directory expanded exponentially from 35 growers in 2020 to roughly 159 by 2026.To better understand what drives this market, Savannah conducted a three-part survey tracking consumer experiences before the workshop, immediately following the event, and four weeks post-experience across nine flower growers in Kentucky and North Carolina. Her research maps out "pre-decision variables" like price, location, demographics, and travel distance alongside long-term consumer relationships. The hosts reflect on how these findings mirror their own real-life behaviors, discussing how modern consumers often prioritize purchasing memorable experiences or experience-based gifts over physical items, concluding that these workshops serve as a vital tool for farmers looking to establish a high consumer lifetime value.FLORAL ENCOUNTERS: EXAMINING THE ROLE OF EXPERIENCE GOODS AND PROMOTERS IN SPECIALTY CUT FLOWER WORKSHOPSCenter for Crop Diversification University of Kentucky Cooperative Extension ServiceQuestions/Comments/Feedback/Suggestions for Topics: hortculturepodcast@gmail.comCheck us out on Instagram!

The Experience Expert met the Event Curator, and it turns out they'd been working on the same problem from opposite directions. Joe Pine, author of The Experience Economy and The Transformation Economy, and Shannon Staton, founder of Collective Experiences, sit down to talk about how you actually design, customize, and protect experiences that move people from simple “nice event” to something that changes them.They get into mass customization with Lego bricks and Coca-Cola machines, the progression from commodities to transformations, high-touch investor retreats, membership communities, and what it really means to take people from awkward handshakes to real hugs in just a few days.Topics coveredWhy “mass customization” is more than a business buzzwordHow Lego bricks explain the power of modular experience designJoe Pine's path from IBM to Mass Customization and The Experience EconomyShannon Staton's path from retail to Mauldin, Real Vision, and Collective ExperiencesWhy great events are built around people, not just content or speakersHow Collective Experiences creates high-trust, high-touch membership retreatsThe difference between goods, services, experiences, and transformationsHow companies and events get commoditized when they lose what made them specialWhat Starbucks reveals about the risk of making experiences feel less humanHow transformation happens when experiences help people become who they want to beWhy “handshakes to hugs” might be your best signal that an experience changed peopleThe challenge of keeping people genuinely connected after an event endsHow to “program serendipity” without over-scripting an experienceWhy structured reflection matters after meaningful experiencesHow frameworks can give language to things practitioners already do intuitivelyTimestamps00:00 Mass customization, experiences, and transformation03:00 Why Just Press Record puts two strangers together05:40 Meet Joe Pine06:00 Meet Shannon Staton08:39 Joe's first job as a ride operator10:52 Shannon's first job at Bed Bath & Beyond12:07 How Shannon's early work led to finance and events17:12 How getting fired helped launch Joe's career20:48 IBM, AS/400, and discovering customer uniqueness23:58 Shannon hears “mass customization” for the first time28:59 Lego building blocks and modular customization29:53 Dell, negative working capital, and customized computers31:08 How customized goods become services33:46 How customized services become experiences35:26 Shannon on the personal side of bringing people together36:47 Designing investor retreats around conversation and place40:39 What Collective Experiences is43:18 Joe Pine analyzes Shannon's membership model45:34 The progression of economic value47:15 Why experiences can become commoditized47:16 Starbucks, sensory design, and losing the human touch49:02 The Transformation Economy50:01 Memorable, meaningful, transporting, and transformative experiences50:38 Shannon on keeping Collective different01:12:00 Third places, chrysalis moments, and introverts at events01:13:00 Frameworks, intuition, and experience design01:17:00 Handshakes to hugs as a signal of transformation01:18:00 Giving language to what people already do01:19:07 Programming serendipity01:22:48 Keeping people connected after the experience ends01:23:36 Reflection and making experiences last01:25:08 Where to find Joe Pine

The guys discuss Cochlear's horrific profit downgrade, Firmus IPO hopes up in smoke (for now), self driving to challenge air travel, battery technology goes large and Uber and Expedia get close. 00:00 - Blackbird's Sunrise Start Up Event13:40 - Firmus32:50 - Uber x Expedia42:55 - Public Transport44:55 - CATL53:36 - Self Driving vs. Flying1:02:46 - Experience Economy1:12:57 - Cochlea Deep Dive Thanks for listening! Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-contrarians-with-adam-and-adir-podcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ryan Pineda, Brian Davila, and Michael Elefante discuss why Airbnb isn't dead but evolving into an experience-driven, luxury-focused business, while breaking down winning strategies, market trends, and costly mistakes investors make in the short-term rental space. ⁣⁣Connect with Michael - ⁣https://www.instagram.com/melefante6/ ⁣https://www.youtube.com/c/MichaelElefante ⁣https://linktr.ee/melefante6⁣⁣__________⁣If you want to start your real estate investing business, we'll give you 1:1 coaching, seller leads, software, & everything you need. https://www.wealthyinvestor.com⁣⁣If you're a business owner who wants to get in peak physical shape, we can help! https://www.allproceo.com⁣⁣Join our private mastermind for elite business leaders who golf. https://www.mastermind19.com⁣⁣Join free Bible studies and workshops for Christian business leaders. https://www.tentmakers.us⁣__________⁣CHAPTERS: ⁣⁣0:00 - Airbnb “Is It Dead?” Debate⁣⁣4:24 - Funding Deals & Tax Strategy⁣⁣10:04 - Airbnb Regulations & Market Risks⁣⁣15:27 - Best Markets & Growth Trends⁣⁣17:13 - Biggest Airbnb Investment Mistakes⁣⁣24:33 - AI, Experience Economy & Hospitality⁣⁣31:06 - Scaling 600+ Properties System⁣⁣37:00 - Social Media Driving Direct Bookings⁣⁣40:05 - Transitioning Into Hotels & Resorts⁣⁣44:00 - Billion-Dollar Resort Economics⁣⁣50:00 - Brian's $150K Airbnb Loss Story⁣⁣1:03:00 - Niche Strategies That Print Money⁣⁣1:10:00 - Destination Airbnb Concept⁣⁣1:12:00 - Final Advice & Investor Mindset

Andy Povey is joined by Andy Zimmerman, CEO of Journey, the global design and innovation agency behind some of the world's most innovative immersive experiences. Andy shares how Journey blends storytelling, technology, and multidisciplinary creativity to transform everything from theme parks and observation decks to healthcare and live entertainment. They discuss the shift from digital to real-world experiences, the importance of designing every touchpoint in the guest journey, and why the most memorable moments often happen before the main event even begins.   Topics Discussed How Journey creates world-class immersive experiences across multiple industries Why storytelling is the foundation of every successful project Designing experiences beyond entertainment, including healthcare and hospitality The transformation of the Empire State Building visitor experience Lessons from Disney's MagicBand and pre-arrival guest engagement The growing demand for real-life, technology-enabled experiences How Journey combines diverse creative disciplines under one roof The future of immersive experiences and opportunities with influencer-led attractions Why every part of the guest journey, including queues, matters The shift from the experience economy to the transformation economy   Show references: Andy Zimmerman, CEO of Journey https://journey.world/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/journeydotworld/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewzimmerman1/   Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your host is Andy Povey. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website SkiptheQueue.fm. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on LinkedIn. Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

This evening we explore how events feed into cultural heritage with G&G Goosebump Productions, find out what goes on behind the scenes at festivals with Duma Collective, unpack the use of technology to manage event logistics, security and insurance with Howler, and discover the role brands play with Heineken. SAfm Market Update - Podcasts and live stream

From Experiences to Transformations: The Future of Value Creation. Full show notes here With Rory HenryThe Holistic Guide to Wealth ManagementWhen advisors talk about differentiating themselves from the pack, the conversation often centers on providing better service models, improved technology, or more personalized experiences. But according to Fortune 500 management advisor Joe Pine, those levers are no longer enough. The real opportunity lies one level deeper: helping clients change.MORE Rory Henry | MORE The Holistic Guide to Wealth Management | MORE CPA Trendlines Streaming NetworkCofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP, Pine is the co-author of The Experience Economy and author of the newly released The Transformation Economy. He argues that the U.S. economy has continued its long arc first from commodities, then to goods, services and experiences, and now to transformations. In this next transformation phase, the customer is no longer buying a product, activity or even a memorable event. They are investing in who they want to become.

Jim Gilmore is the co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP and the co-author of The Experience Economy and Look: A Toolkit for Making Better Decisions. As a pioneer in the study of consumer experiences and observational methods, Jim has spent decades helping organizations see the world—and their opportunities—more clearly. In this Tugboat Institute® talk, Jim challenges the modern habit of screen-induced tunnel vision, arguing that true innovation begins with active, intentional observation of our immediate surroundings. He introduces his "Six Looking Glasses" framework—metaphorical tools ranging from binoculars to blindfolds—designed to help leaders sharpen their looking skills and overcome confirmation bias. He demonstrates how spotting a simple detail in the everyday environment can lead to transformative breakthroughs. Listen and be inspired to reclaim the power of observation and master the art of looking as the essential first step toward strategic thinking and long-term Evergreen® success.

Episode: Jean Thompson, CEO of Maeve ChocolateWhat does it take to rescue a chocolate company after a literal earthquake, a departing CEO, and a distributor bankruptcy — all while raising kids and drawing no salary? Jean Thompson, founder and CEO of Maeve Chocolate (formerly Seattle Chocolate), knows firsthand.In this episode, Mark sits down with his longtime entrepreneur friend Jean for one of the most candid founder stories you'll hear. After nine years of losing money, taking on home equity loans, and at least one roadside panic attack, Jean built a thriving, values-driven chocolate company — and rebranded it entirely in year 33.In this episode, you'll hear:How a Seattle earthquake in 2001 accidentally made Jean the owner of a failing chocolate companyWhy "this housewife is going to take the company to its knees" became her rocket fuel for yearsThe brutal cash flow reality of physical product businesses — and why growth almost killed themWhat Jean saw visiting cocoa farms in Ghana (including tribespeople tasting chocolate for the first time)Why she turned down Ferrari of Seattle during her divorce to keep the chocolate companyThe bold, all-or-nothing rebrand from Seattle Chocolate to Maeve — named after a fierce Irish warrior queenHow immersive factory experiences, pop-ups, and a viral book collaboration sold out an entire year's inventory in 36 hoursBuilding an "evergreen" company designed to outlast youKey Themes: Founder resilience, ethical supply chains, experiential retail, rebranding, sustainable growth, women in business, the experience economyLinks & Resources:

Meet an insider in Singapore's private club scene. Michelle Martin speaks with Ben Jones, Founder of Mandala Club and Co-founder of ICON1C, to unpack the evolution of modern luxury. From curated community experiences to a bold expansion of Mandala’s physical footprint, Ben shares how private clubs are shifting from exclusivity to meaningful connection. We explore ICON1C’s vision of building a global “house of brands,” including the revival of the 1880 community and its next chapter. Plus, the rise of “social wellness” with ventures like the Mandala Racquet Club, and why offline experiences are becoming the ultimate luxury currency. Where is the experience economy headed next? Find out in this episode of Influence.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Welcome to episode #1031 of Thinking With Mitch Joel (formerly Six Pixels of Separation). At a time when businesses are still trying to wrap their heads around "customer experience," few thinkers have shaped that conversation… and pushed it forward… as much as B. Joseph Pine II. As cofounder of Strategic Horizons, Joe has spent decades helping organizations understand how economic value evolves… from commodities to goods, to services, to experiences… and now, to something far more ambitious. Best known for The Experience Economy: Work Is Theatre And Every Business A Stage, Joe didn't just introduce a concept… he gave leaders a new language to describe how businesses compete for time, attention and meaning. In this conversation, Joe extends that thinking through his latest work, The Transformation Economy: Guiding Customers To Achieve Their Aspirations, where the goal is no longer just to stage memorable moments… but to help customers become something more. He argues that the highest form of economic value isn't what a company delivers… but what a customer becomes as a result. That shift reframes everything: experiences are no longer the end game… they are the raw material for change. Drawing on decades of research and real-world examples, Joe makes the case that businesses must move beyond efficiency and even beyond engagement… toward fostering human flourishing across dimensions like health, wealth, wisdom and purpose. It's a bold elevation of the role of business… one that demands a long-term mindset, ethical use of data, and a deeper understanding of individual customers as people, not segments. And while technologies like AI can accelerate customization and coaching, Joe is clear that tools alone won't get us there… mindset will. In a world obsessed with speed, optimization and short-term gains, this conversation is a powerful reminder that the real opportunity lies in helping people grow… not just transact. Enjoy the conversation… Running time: 58:44. Hello from beautiful Montreal. Listen and subscribe over at Apple Podcasts. Listen and subscribe over at Spotify. Please visit and leave comments on the blog - Thinking With Mitch Joel. Feel free to connect to me directly on LinkedIn. Check out ThinkersOne. Here is my conversation with B. Joseph Pine II. Transformation Economy: Guiding Customers To Achieve Their Aspirations. The Experience Economy: Work Is Theatre And Every Business A Stage. Strategic Horizons. Follow Joe on Substack. Follow Joe on X. Follow Joe on LinkedIn. Chapters: (00:00) - The Experience Economy: A Game Changer. (03:07) - Understanding Experiences vs. Services. (06:01) - The Challenge of Attention in the Experience Economy. (09:05) - The Progression of Economic Value. (11:50) - Transformation: The Next Level of Value. (14:56) - The Role of Self-Service in Experiences. (18:07) - Empathy and Customer-Centric Business. (20:53) - Long-Term Thinking in Business Strategy. (31:32) - Long-Term Investment Strategies for Companies. (34:51) - The Importance of Meaningful Purpose in Business. (37:48) - Data, Analytics, and the Customization Revolution. (39:40) - Balancing Data Use and Customer Privacy. (46:51) - The Concept of Flourishing in Business. (52:15) - Experiences vs. Anti-Consumerism. (53:35) - AI: The Future of Customization and Transformation.

CUJO is a podcast about culture in the age of platforms. Episodes drop every other week, but if you want the full experience, we recommend signing up for a paid subscription. Paid subscribers also get access to our CUJOPLEX Discord and The Weather Report, a monthly episode series where we take stock of where the cultural winds are blowing and tell you what's rained into our brains.It sounds strange to say it, but the notion of the recording artist seems to be becoming increasingly a thing of the past. Artists are still releasing albums, sure, but our experience as music fans and the industry as a whole seems to be increasingly centered around live music — at least in terms of where people are actually spending their money. Today's guest, writer and musician Jaime Brooks (you may remember her from our episode on the geopolitics of pop culture), joins us to discuss what that means for artists and the future of music itself. We dig into Jaime's recent viral essay, “Why do so many big artists hate touring?,” which draws on her own touring experiences as part of the electronic duo Elite Gymnastics to explore how the music business seems to be in the midst of an experience economy arms race. Artists are risking serious money on ever-bigger spectacles, ticket prices keep climbing, and all roads — even for indie artists — seem to lead to Live Nation and AEG. Meanwhile, the psychological tolls of life on the road, combined with the near-constant surveillance of being a celebrity in 2026, has led to a growing wave of cancellations and burnout. All leading Jaime to ask: Is it time to let go of the idea of pop stars (or at least human ones) entirely?We dig into why touring seems to become more stressful for artists as they become more successful, what happens when scarcity pivots from music recordings to tickets, and how even early and mid-career artists are feeling the pressure to manufacture the illusion of endless growth. Jaime also raises a spicy possibility: If the music industry continues down this path, the future of pop stardom might belong more to animated or AI-generated performers in the mold of K-Pop Demon Hunters than real people. Read “Why Do So Many Big Artists Hate Touring?” Subscribe to Jaime's Substack, The Seat of Loss This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit theculturejournalist.substack.com/subscribe

Episode Summary In this Brand Retro Vault Series ("Lost Episode"), Mike Brevik sits down with Steph Silver, founder of VINE Collective, to explore one of the most misunderstood aspects of branding: the experience behind the brand. Steph shares how her unconventional journey, from theater and storytelling to marketing and leadership coaching, shaped her belief that a brand is not just what customers see on the outside, but what happens behind the scenes inside the organization. From how employees are treated to how decisions are made during difficult seasons, every internal choice ultimately shapes the customer experience. Throughout the conversation, Mike and Steph unpack the deeper layers of branding, including the importance of culture alignment, customer empathy, and empowering teams to carry the brand forward. They also discuss why the most successful brands are often built not through rigid control, but through shared passion and purpose that flows through the entire organization. This episode offers a thoughtful reminder that branding is not just about logos, colors, or marketing campaigns, it is about the experience people have with your business, from the inside out. Links & Resources Home - BRAND RETRO PODCAST www.vine-collective.com www.linkedin.com/in/stephaniebsilver Steph Silver – Audio Books, Best Sellers, Author Bio | Audible.com Keywords branding strategy brand experience customer journey company culture leadership brand alignment internal communication team empowerment customer empathy business growth brand identity storytelling brand evolution culture fit customer experience design leadership development Episode Highlights 00:00–00:27 – Introduction to brand experience as the foundation of business success 00:01–00:57 – Steph's early exposure to business and how it shaped her perspective 00:01:57–00:02:20 – First real-world example of building a brand experience (restaurant case) 00:02:20–00:03:09 – How theater influenced her understanding of immersive experiences 00:04:23–00:05:06 – The hidden elements of branding that shape perception 00:05:41–00:06:04 – Why branding is intuitive—but not obvious to most people 00:06:36–00:07:46 – Case study: when brand personality doesn't match the market 00:08:03–00:08:27 – "Perception of value" vs. "elevated branding" 00:09:11–00:10:00 – Why marketing alone cannot fix a broken experience 00:11:31–00:12:03 – Scripts vs. emotional consistency in customer interactions 00:12:29–00:13:47 – Internal culture as the true starting point of branding 00:15:11–00:16:11 – Why most businesses fail—and what long-lasting brands do differently 00:17:04–00:17:51 – The danger of building for exit instead of experience 00:18:04–00:18:47 – Empowering teams to evolve the brand organically 00:24:04–00:24:35 – The "Torchy's Tacos" lesson: never compromise on what defines your brand

Let's know what you liked and learnt! In this conversation with Swami, B. Joseph Pine II explains the shift from the Experience Economy to the Transformation Economy, where the real value lies in helping customers become who they aspire to be. From “time well spent” to “time well invested,” he unpacks why outcomes matter more than effort, why customers themselves become the product, and how companies must rethink pricing, purpose, and value creation.If the future of business is about enabling change—not just delivering services—this episode will fundamentally change how you think about customers, growth, and what it truly means to create value.⭐5 Key Takeaways1.The Customer Is the Product: Real value is created not in what you deliver, but in who your customer becomes.2.From Experience to Transformation: Experiences create memories, but transformations create lasting identity change.3.Aspiration Drives Value: Customers buy to move from their current state to a desired future version of themselves.4.Charge for Outcomes, Not Effort: The future of pricing lies in what results customers achieve—not the time or inputs you invest.5.Time Well Invested Is the Highest Value: The best businesses don't just save or spend time—they help customers invest it in becoming better.⏱️ Timestamps00:02:08 The Customer Becomes the Product00:04:24 Transformation = Identity Change00:05:40 Why Outcomes Beat Effort00:10:05 Business Should Help You Flourish00:15:21 What Are You Really Selling?00:20:29 Add Meaning, Not Just Products00:24:20 Industries That Will Get Disrupted Next00:29:20 Time Well Invested > Time Well Spent00:32:19 Stop Pricing Effort. Price Value.00:34:06 What If Customers Don't Know What They Want?00:36:47 The New Skill: Transform Thinking00:39:18 Transform Once. Win Forever

Customer experience is shifting from memorable interactions to driving customer outcomes. That's the shift behind the Transformation Economy, and it's changing how companies create value for customers. This week on The Modern Customer Podcast, Joseph Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy and author of the new book The Transformation Economy, explores the next evolution of customer value—from experiences to transformation.

“Most salon owners think they're in the service business… but you're not. You're in the experience business. PEOPLE to PEOPLE, and right now, most of you are letting your clients drift instead of leading the journey.”“You're Not Selling Services… You're Selling the Voyage”What if your business isn't a service… but a voyage?In this episode, I break down the Experience Economy and how today's clients are no longer buying what you do—they're buying how you make them feel.Whether you're behind the chair or at the helm of your business, your role is to design an experience worth coming back for. Because without a clear captain, even the most beautiful boat just drifts.

What if the future of restaurants isn't smaller, faster, and cheaper—but louder, warmer, and more human?While everyone else is shrinking footprints and racing to the bottom on price, John Tilley is rebuilding the pizza parlor.In this conversation, we unpack why he believes the future of restaurants isn't frictionless, it's emotional. He shares how nostalgia became strategy, why discounting is a death spiral, and what it really means to act like an owner instead of a manager with equity.If you're wondering how to compete in a louder, leaner market, this episode is a masterclass in zigging while everyone else zags.To learn more about Shakey's and see how they're reimagining the classic pizza parlor experience, visit shakeys.com._________________________________________________________Today's episode was brought to you by Square. If you want restaurant tech that actually supports how you run your restaurant, find out how Square can help at square.com/goodstuff.Free 5-Day Restaurant Marketing Masterclass – This is a live training where you'll learn the exact campaigns Josh has built and tested in real restaurants to attract new guests, increase visit frequency, and generate sales on demand. Save your spot at restaurantbusinessschool.com

Is your consulting or coaching business in the product, service, or transformation business? Today's episode is all about getting your consulting or coaching business firmly into the transformation business. And that means shifting your perspective on whatever you do with your clients or what you want to sell them from the end… to the means to a bigger end, which is what your clients truly desire… …achieving their aspirations and becoming who they want to become. Without this shift, we leave value on the table. To help us unpack this and create the path from products to services to experiences to transformations, I'm beyond excited to bring you author, speaker, and advisor to Fortune 500 companies like my beloved Disney, where I first got introduced to his work back in 1999 when I was a brand-new organization development consultant, Joe Pine. One of my first projects at Disney was with the Fort Wilderness Campgrounds. The GM was Cesar, and at our first meeting, he handed me Joe's Experience Economy book and asked for my help implementing these principles to stage more engaging, immersive experiences for the guests at the Fort. So I have been a fan of Joe's work since then. And even more so with his book on the Transformation Economy, which made me realize why I have butterflies all over the place, and as the icon of my logo, because of how much I love this industry and how much this is such a key part of what I do. In today's episode, we're getting into: The differences between the product, service, experience, and transformation economy What transformation really is, and how understanding that transforms your understanding of what your product actually is The steps you need to take to make the shift into transformation Chapters 00:00 Is Your Business a Service or a Transformation? 02:30 What Is the Experience Economy (Simple Breakdown) 08:54 Products → Services → Experiences → Transformations Explained 12:30 How This Applies to Consultants & Coaches 19:01 Why Transformation (Not Coaching) Is What Clients Buy 24:57 The Shift: The Client Is the Product 32:16 The Real Starting Point: Disruption, Not Strategy 36:00 How to Design Transformational Client Experiences 47:41 Why Most Consultants Think Too Small 55:11 Will AI Replace Coaches? The Real Answer 01:05:27 How to Charge for Transformation (Not Time) Next Steps Get clear on the transformation you deliver. What is different for your client because they worked with you. Check out Joe's book to dive into this more. Look at your client journey and elevate one moment. Where can you be more intentional, more thoughtful, more experiential If you are ready to move from service provider to strategic partner, connect with me to clarify your positioning and build an offer that reflects your true value. Learn more here https://www.betsyjordyn.com/services Other episodes you may enjoy: How to Start Your Consulting Business Right…the First Time with Sara Guttman (Ep153) Why Brand Clarity Is About Trust with Dr. J.B. Adams (Ep152) 3 Types of Consulting /Coaching Expertise: Which one is yours? (Ep147) 5 Truths About Branding, I Only Saw After Tearing My Process Apart (Ep146) Inside My Brand Messaging Process (and Why It Always Works) (Ep140) About my guest: B. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management advisor to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial startups, and cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP, a consulting studio focused on helping organizations create new forms of value. He is best known for co-authoring The Experience Economy, a landmark book that redefined how businesses compete by staging memorable experiences rather than simply delivering goods and services, and his latest work, The Transformation Economy, builds on that foundation by showing how businesses can guide customers toward meaningful outcomes and lasting change. Through his work, Pine helps leaders elevate their offerings, rethink their positioning, and design experiences that drive both impact and revenue. Learn more at https://strategichorizons.com/ About the host: Betsy Jordyn is a business mentor, brand messaging strategist, and former Disney consultant who helps purpose-driven consultants and coaches build profitable businesses rooted in their unique strengths. With over 20 years in the industry and a knack for turning big ideas into clear positioning, she's your go-to for strategy that aligns with your calling. Work with me: https://www.betsyjordyn.com/services

For the past decade, financial institutions have poured billions into improving customer experience. Digital journeys. Frictionless onboarding. Personalization. Higher satisfaction scores. But according to Joe Pine, that era is over. In this episode of Banking Transformed, I sit down with Joe, the author of The Transformation Economy and co-author of the landmark Experience Economy, to explore what comes after customer experience in banking. If experiences are now expected rather than differentiating, where should banks compete next? Joe argues that the next stage of value creation is transformation. Not better moments, but better outcomes. Not engagement metrics, but measurable progress in customers' financial lives We discuss what transformation really means for banking, why most institutions are still optimizing for the wrong thing, and why banks that fail to evolve risk becoming irrelevant in the most important conversations their customers are actually having. If your strategy still centers on CX as the competitive moat, this conversation will challenge your assumptions. Subscribe to Banking Transformed for weekly conversations with the leaders reshaping the future of financial services.

The Founderz Lounge Episode #77 with Don Varady and Steve Bon.Don and Steve are back with another round of Business & Bullsh*t, where real entrepreneurs break down what brands are doing right, what they are doing wrong, and what is changing in culture.This episode kicks off with the business behind GORUCK and how a founder built a massive brand around something most companies try to avoid: pain. Instead of selling convenience, the company built a loyal following around challenge, community, and shared suffering.From there, the conversation shifts into the rise of the experience economy and why consumers increasingly care more about how something makes them feel than what they actually buy. Don and Steve explore why atmosphere can matter more than the product itself, how travel and hospitality brands are leaning into customized experiences, and why human connection still matters in a digital world.They also dive into the strange world of luxury branding, where status and perception can sometimes matter more than the product itself.They close out with Hot Takes on AI, restaurant kiosks, and technology replacing human interaction, plus a Fast Five covering favorite snacks, nostalgia products, the Winter Olympics, and unexpected hotel pet peeves.Tune in to hear more.Timestamps:[00:00] Trailer[00:43] Founderz RoundUp[01:11] GORUCK and the Business of Shared Suffering[03:07] Why Fitness Got Easier[04:33] The Experience Economy and Emotional Marketing[07:59] Experiences Worth Paying For[09:24] Random Bullsh*t[09:52] “I'll Give You Back Your Time” Rant[11:19] Luxury Brands, Status, and Pricing Absurdity[14:15] Founderz Hot Takes[14:33] AI, Kiosks, and Broken Business Systems[20:04] Founderz Fast Five[27:45] OutroKey Takeaways:  • Instead of selling easy fitness, he sold shared suffering. ~Don Varady• “It isn't about being seen. It's about being felt.” ~Steve Bon• More people than ever are buying a memorable moment over a product or service. ~Steve Bon• The lead into a brand today is how it will make someone feel, not just what it sells. ~Steve Bon• “They're not selling products anymore. They're selling inside jokes for rich people.” ~Don Varady• The flex is not quality anymore. The flex is being able to waste money on something others cannot. ~Don Varady• Businesses should clean up their systems before adopting new technology. ~Steve BonConnect with Don and Steve…Don Varady:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/don.varady/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/donvarady/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/don-varady-450896145 Steve Bon:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stephenbon Instagram: https://instagram.com/stevebon8 Tune in to every episode on your favorite platform: Website: https://www.thefounderzlounge.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@TheFounderzLounge Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/0Nurr4XjBE747qJ9Zjth0G Apple Music: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-founderz-lounge/id1461825349 The Founderz Lounge is Powered By:Clean Eatz:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CleanEatzLife/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cleaneatzlife/ Website: https://cleaneatz.com/Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJRGrE-Xv4IMW_DbxSOTGGA Bon's Eye Marketing:Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/bonseyemarketing Instagram: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bon's-eye-marketing/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/bon's-eye-marketing/ Website: https://bonseyeonline.com/ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@bonseyemarketing9477  

In DisrupTV Episode 430, R "Ray" Wang and Vala Afshar explore the next evolution of business value: the Transformation Economy. Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy, explains why companies must move beyond staging memorable experiences and start guiding customers toward meaningful outcomes—helping them become healthier, wiser, more successful, or more purposeful. Later in the episode, CRM leaders Paul Greenberg and Brent Leary connect these ideas to real-world customer experience strategies, highlighting why convenience, community, and human-centered design still matter in an AI-driven world. From AI-powered personalization to purpose-driven business models, this episode explores how organizations can design experiences that don't just engage customers—but transform them.

In this episode, Cody & Meagan explore a major shift shaping modern hospitality: guests care far more about how a place feels than how big it is. As travel becomes more experience-driven, unforgettable moments, emotional design, and intentional details are replacing square footage as the true measure of value.This episode challenges operators to rethink how they design, market, and deliver hospitality in the experience economy.

In this episode of Skip the Queue, Andy Povey is joined by Ray Hole of Ray Hole Architects for a wide-ranging and thought-provoking conversation about strategy, storytelling and the true economics of experience design. Key Topics Discussed The “Camelot” collaboration model in attraction development Experience economy vs. pure economics Primacy and recency effects in guest psychology Designing the departure experience Turning operational cost into experiential value Storytelling through architecture Instagrammable design and generational behaviour Empathy in ticketing and security Integrating accommodation into attraction strategy Converting capex into revenue-generating experiences   Show References:   Ray Hole, Managing Director of Ray Hole Architects https://www.rayhole-architects.com/ https://www.linkedin.com/in/ray-hole-a6b7396/   Skip the Queue is brought to you by Merac. We provide attractions with the tools and expertise to create world-class digital interactions. Very simply, we're here to rehumanise commerce. Your host is Andy Povey.   Credits: Written by Emily Burrows (Plaster) Edited by Steve Folland Produced by Emily Burrows and Sami Entwistle (Plaster) Download The Visitor Attractions Website Survey Report - https://www.merac.co.uk/download-the-visitor-attractions-survey We have launched our brand-new playbook: ‘The Retail Ready Guide to Going Beyond the Gift Shop' — your go-to resource for building a successful e-commerce strategy that connects with your audience and drives sustainable growth. Download your FREE copy here

This episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different reunites us with the renowned business thinker Joe Pine, whose work on the experience economy transformed how organizations define value. We join Christopher and Joe in tracing the progression from products and services to experiences, and now to transformations, where companies move beyond creating memorable moments to helping people achieve meaningful change. Through examples, definitions, and personal stories, they clarify what distinguishes an experience, why it has become central to modern economies, and how the emerging transformation economy repositions businesses as guides in their customers' journeys toward their aspirations. You're listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let's go. Joe Pine on the Experience Economy and Changing Consumer Priorities Lochhead reflects on how Pine's book The Experience Economy revealed experiences as a distinct economic offering, separate from commodities, goods, and services. Pine defines experiences as events in which companies use goods as props and services as the stage to personally engage people and create lasting memories. They note how brands such as Starbucks intuitively staged experiences long before the concept had formal language. Today, cultural trends and research show that consumers, especially younger generations, increasingly value experiences over material possessions. Rather than accumulating things, people seek moments that feel meaningful, enjoyable, and worth remembering and sharing. Joe Pine on how Experiences Function in B2B Contexts Pine and Lochhead argue that experiences are just as critical in B2B environments as they are in consumer markets. Pine explains that the experience itself has become the most powerful form of marketing, because it earns attention, builds trust, and generates demand. They describe executive briefing centers, innovation hubs, and destination events where clients are welcomed into carefully designed environments that educate and inspire. Lochhead recalls building a Customer Welcome Center at Mercury Interactive and orchestrating every detail, from airport pickup to on-site interactions, as one cohesive journey. This stands in sharp contrast to traditional advertising, which is often fleeting and easily forgotten. From Experiences to Transformations The discussion culminates in Pine's concept of the transformation economy, introduced in his book The Transformation Economy. Transformations represent the next stage, where customers are no longer asking for moments to enjoy but for help becoming who they want to be. While experiences focus on time well spent, transformations emphasize time well invested. Joe Pine introduces the idea of encapsulation, which includes preparation before an experience, reflection afterward, and integration over time to sustain real change. Together, he and Lochhead connect this to their own work, designing not just books, but ecosystems of courses, communities, tools, and future technologies intended to guide lasting personal and professional growth. To hear more from Joe Pine about the Transformation Economy, download and listen to this episode. Bio Joe Pine is a renowned author, speaker, and management advisor best known as the co-author of The Experience Economy, a groundbreaking book that reshaped how businesses create value. His work introduced the concept that companies must orchestrate memorable experiences to remain competitive in an evolving marketplace. With deep expertise in innovation and customer experience design, Joe helps organizations around the world architect differentiated experiences that drive growth and loyalty. He has worked with leading global brands across industries from retail and hospitality to healthcare and technology. Joe is also a sought-after keynote speaker and co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP. His insights continue to influence leaders seeking to transform the way they engage customers. Links Connect with Joe Pine! LinkedIn | Strategic Horizons We hope you enjoyed this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast / Spotify!

Joe Pine is an internationally recognized author, speaker, and advisor, best known for The Experience Economy and his latest work, The Transformation Economy. In this episode, Joe explains why the market is finally ready—25 years later—for the shift to the transformation economy. He walks through the evolution of economic value, from commodities to goods, services, experiences, and now transformations, and makes the case that businesses must stop charging for inputs and start charging for outcomes. Joe introduces the four spheres of transformation—Health & Wellbeing, Wealth & Prosperity, Knowledge & Wisdom, and Purpose & Meaning—and argues that the true role of business is human flourishing: helping people become who they're meant to be. Profit isn't the goal; it's the scorecard. We also explore "encapsulation"—preparation, reflection, and integration—and why it's the key to turning experiences into lasting change. Joe breaks down why outcomes-based pricing is both the hardest shift and the biggest opportunity for transformation-driven companies. In this conversation, you'll learn how to spot transformation opportunities in your business, move beyond time-based pricing, and align what you charge with what customers actually value. Find episode 499 on The Leadership Podcast, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts! Watch this Episode on YouTube | Joe Pine on You're Charging for the Wrong Thing with Joe Pine https://bit.ly/TLP-499 Key Takeaways [04:04] Joe explains why the world is finally ready for the transformation economy after 25 years of people asking when he'd write this book. [09:11] The four spheres of transformation: Health & Wellbeing, Wealth & Prosperity, Knowledge & Wisdom, and Purpose & Meaning—and why almost every business can find themselves in at least one. [12:59] The difference between fitness centers (charging for time as an experience) versus personal trainers (instilling discipline for transformation). [17:42] Why companies must eventually align what they charge for with what customers value—and how this drives the shift to outcomes-based pricing. [22:09] Joe introduces "invitational transformations"—experiences that invite people to transform their identity (like the Guinness Storehouse or Abraham Lincoln Presidential Library). [26:38] Human flourishing defined: the extent to which people are who they're meant to be. This is the raison d'être of business. [34:09] The concept of encapsulation: Preparation (before the experience), Reflection (after), and Integration (ongoing)—the framework that turns experiences into transformations. [35:59] How Joe wrote the book on Substack, getting real-time feedback from subscribers that fundamentally changed key frameworks in the book. [44:18] Joe's vision for transformation businesses: charge for demonstrated outcomes, foster human flourishing, and recognize that profits measure how well you help people flourish—not the end goal itself. [46:46] And remember..."The greatest danger in times of turbulence is not the turbulence; it is to act with yesterday's logic. Transformation begins with a change in mindset." — Peter Drucker Quotable Quotes "You are what you charge for. If you charge for undifferentiated stuff, you're in the commodities business. If you charge for demonstrated outcomes that your customers achieve, you're in the transformation business." "Eventually you have to align what you charge for with what your customers value. Let me say it again: Eventually you have to align what you charge for with what your customers value." "Fostering human flourishing is the raison d'être of business, period. That's why business exists—to help people flourish." "Human flourishing is the extent to which people are who they're meant to be." "The irony is of course that you may be offering a transformation guarantee, but that's exactly what you can't actually do. You can't guarantee a transformation. However, the best way to get it to happen is to offer a guarantee." "Profits are never the end. They're always the measurement by which you achieve the ends of human flourishing." These are the books mentioned in this episode Resources Mentioned The Leadership Podcast | theleadershippodcast.com Sponsored by | www.darley.com Rafti Advisors. LLC | www.raftiadvisors.com Self-Reliant Leadership. LLC | selfreliantleadership.com Joe Pine Website | www.strategichorizons.com Joe Pine X | @joepine Joe Pine LinkedIn | www.linkedin.com/in/joepine TLP004: Joe Pine - Visionary Leadership Instilling Purpose

Best-selling author, speaker, and management adviser Joe Pine joined me on Ditching Hourly to discuss his new book, The Transformation Economy, why it applies especially well to consultants, coaches, and advisors, and gives some tips on how to price transformations.Chapters(00:00) - Welcome and Introduction (00:26) - Discussing the Experience Economy (00:43) - Introducing the Transformation Economy (01:26) - Understanding Transformations and Aspirations (04:15) - Frameworks for Identity Change (07:09) - Real-Life Examples of Transformations (13:27) - Pricing Transformations and Value (18:01) - Guaranteeing Transformations (22:52) - Navigating Client Relationships (23:08) - The Power of Commitment (23:58) - Value-Based Pricing (25:01) - The Turnaround King (26:15) - Maintaining Progress and Overcoming Setbacks (28:13) - Commitment to the Process (29:41) - Measuring Success and Transformation (36:51) - Creating a Sustainable Business Model (37:20) - Book Launch and Writing Process (42:05) - Conclusion and Resources Joe's BioB. Joseph Pine II is an internationally acclaimed author, speaker, and management adviser to Fortune 500 companies and entrepreneurial startups alike, and he is the cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP. He is the coauthor of the bestselling book The Experience Economy with James H. Gilmore, as well as Infinite Possibility with Kim C. Korn. His other books include Authenticity and Mass Customization. Pine consults with numerous companies around the world. He is a lecturer in the Strategic Technology Leadership program at Northeastern University's D'Amore-McKim School of Business and a senior fellow with the European Centre for the Experience Economy, which he cofounded.Related LinksJoe's website » strategichorizons.comJoe's previous appearance on Ditching Hourly » podcast.ditchinghourly.com/episodes/joe-pine-on-pricing-experiencesJoe's previous appearance on TBOA » thebusinessofauthority.com/episodes/the-experience-economy-with-guest-joe-pine ----Do you have questions about how to improve your business? Things like:Value pricing your work instead of billing for your time?Positioning yourself as the go-to person in your space?Productizing your services so you never have to have another awkward sales call or spend hours writing another custom proposal?Book a one-on-one coaching call with me and get answers to these questions and others in the time it takes to get ready for work in the morning.Best of all, you're covered by my 100% satisfaction guarantee. If at the end of the call, you don't feel like it was worth it, just say the word, and I'll refund your purchase in full.To book your one-on-one coaching call, go to: https://jonathanstark.com/callI hope to see you there!

In this episode, Rory speaks with Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy and author of the new book The Transformation Economy, about the progression of economic value and why financial professionals are uniquely positioned to guide lasting change. Joe explains how we've moved from commodities to goods, services, and experiences and now into the Transformation Economy, where the true value lies in helping clients achieve their aspirations across health, wealth, wisdom, and purpose. He introduces the concept of the “aspirant,” explores why all transformation is identity change, and shares how preparation, reflection, and integration can turn ordinary client interactions into meaningful breakthroughs. They discuss why charging for outcomes aligns incentives, how AI can augment coaching, and why the future of advice is about guiding human flourishing, not just delivering a product or service. Want to know how to design client journeys that move beyond experiences and into true transformation? Curious how to become the guide to a clients' hero's journeys? Find out the answers to these questions and more in this forward-looking conversation with Joe Pine.

In this special episode of the Experience Strategy Podcast, Joe Pine shares with Dave and Aransas background about the book!  To celebrate the release of his new book, The Transformation Economy. The conversation traces the book's origins from the final two chapters of The Experience Economy, explores why the world is finally ready for this idea, and unpacks key frameworks — including encapsulation (preparation, reflection, and integration) — that make experiences truly transformative. The trio also discusses the role of AI in enabling transformation, why businesses must foster human flourishing, and who stands to benefit most from reading the book. Key Topics Why now for The Transformation Economy? Joe waited over 25 years because "the world wasn't ready" and he "didn't know enough." Research through Stone Mantle's collaboratives, the World Experience Organization, and post-COVID shifts toward meaningful experiences signaled the time had come. Catalysts for transformation. The most prevalent catalyst is trauma — illness, loss, job changes, retirement. These disruptions create the conditions where people seek to see, do, and be differently. The four spheres of human flourishing: Health & well-being Wealth & prosperity Knowledge & wisdom Purpose & meaning Encapsulation — the essential framework (Chapter 4): To turn a memorable experience into a transformative one, you need three layers around the core experience: preparation (priming beforehand), reflection (making meaning afterward — which retroactively increases the value of the experience), and integration (sustaining change over time). The business model problem. Most companies get paid for the event, not the outcome. Shifting to outcome-based pricing — as McKinsey is doing with AI projects — aligns incentives with lasting transformation. AI as a transformation enabler. AI makes the hardest parts of delivering transformation (especially ongoing integration and support) dramatically more accessible and affordable. Who Should Read This Book? Companies in education, finance, health, and well-being Any business focused on improving the lives of families and individuals The creator economy — creators already doing transformation work who need frameworks to do it well and realize its full value Notable Quotes "The entire raison d'être of business is to foster human flourishing." — Joe Pine "Reflection retroactively increases the value of the experience." — Joe Pine "If you don't do it, it's just lazy." — Aransas Savas, on using available technology to encapsulate experiences Mentioned in This Episode The Transformation Economy by Joe Pine The Experience Economy by Joe Pine & Jim Gilmore Stone Mantel's Experience Strategy Collaboratives The World Experience Organization (founded by James Wallman) Arrival 360 Conference Daniel Kahneman's experiencing self vs. remembering self McKinsey's outcome-based AI pricing model Podcast Sponsors: Learn more about Stone Mantel https://www.stonemantel.co Sign up for the Experience Strategist Substack here: https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com

Turning Customer Experience into Customer Transformation  Shep interviews Joseph Pine, best-selling author of Experience Economy, speaker, and cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP. He talks about his new book, The Transformation Economy, and how businesses can go beyond creating memorable experiences to guiding customers through meaningful transformations that help them achieve their aspirations.  This episode of Amazing Business Radio with Shep Hyken answers the following questions and more:    What is the transformation economy?  What is the difference between selling a product and creating a transformative customer experience?  How can businesses guide customers to achieve their personal or professional aspirations?  What are the benefits of customizing experiences to meet individual customer needs?  What elements contribute to a robust customer experience?  Top Takeaways:    The transformation economy is about how companies can help customers change. It is about how your business can help them achieve their aspirations.   Businesses create more value when they focus on selling the end rather than the means. Go beyond selling products and services to understanding why customers buy and use that knowledge to help them reach their goals and achieve their aspirations.  Transformation is not a one-size-fits-all. It must begin with truly understanding where the customer is starting (from) and where your customers aspire to end up (to). Carefully identify the customer's current situation, needs, and aspirations to tailor experiences that produce meaningful outcomes for them.  Sell transformation, not just products. For example, people don't buy a treadmill because they want the equipment. They want to be healthier, have more stamina, or feel better about themselves. Whether you're selling a physical product, a service, or something else, shift your mindset to the customer's desired result.   In both B2B and B2C, businesses should become trusted partners, not just vendors. That means understanding clients' deeper goals and helping them achieve success, even if it occasionally means recommending solutions outside what you sell. The focus is on the customer's outcome, not just the transaction.  In the transformation economy, companies should charge for what customers value most: outcomes. Companies are moving away from pricing based on time, materials, or products. It is focused on results.  Transformative change for customers doesn't come from a single transaction. It spans the entire journey, including the preparation before the event, reflection afterwards, and ongoing integration into daily life.  Plus, Shep and Joe share insights from The Transformation Economy and discuss companies that are putting customer transformations first. Tune in!  Quote:   "Transformations are built on top of experiences. We change through the experiences that we have. "    About:    Joseph Pine is a bestselling author, speaker, and cofounder of Strategic Horizons LLP, celebrated for guiding Fortune 500 companies and innovative startups alike. He is the author of The Experience Economy, Mass Customization, and Infinite Possibility.  Shep Hyken is a customer service and experience expert, New York Times bestselling author, award-winning keynote speaker, and host of Amazing Business Radio.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

IN CLEAR FOCUS: Professor Sarah Montano discusses her new book, "Retail Marketing: Contemporary Approaches to Retailing in the Digital and Experience Economy." Sarah explains why brands must master "phygital" experiences and third place community building to survive. She explores the impact of the cost-of-living crisis, ethical consumption challenges, and success stories like Jellycat. Learn how to navigate the digital and experience economy while maintaining authentic human connections.

A few months ago I finally hit a major milestone...After years of putting it off, I finally started taking golf lessons.Jasper, my coach (or "pro" as they say in the golf world), has been helping me develop a proper swing. But being me, I just can't help but look at Jasper through a service design lens.What is he actually selling me? Or better yet: what am I actually buying?Right now, I pay by the hour. That buys me Jasper's time and a bit of grass to practice on. But what if I didn't pay for the service, which is just time well saved, but rather for the outcome?What if Jasper promised to take me from someone who barely knows how to hold a club to being a confident, competent golfer? Because in the end, that's truly the identity shift I'm actually looking for.Just think about how much that proposition would change the dynamics, not just for me, but for Jasper's entire business model. When that offer is on the table, why would I ever settle for a coach selling me "practice time" (a commodity) when I could invest in the transformation I actually desire?This shift toward "transformations" as an economic offering isn't new.It was already described in the industry defining book The Experience Economy back in 1999.We've been lucky enough to have Joe Pine, the book's co-author, on the Show twice before. Now, he's back.It's been 27 years since he published the book that influenced so many of us, and he has just published the long-awaited follow-up titled, you guessed it, The Transformation Economy.In this episode, we sit down to chat about what this shift means for us as service design professionals and what it means for the future of business. I'm fairly certain this is the very first podcast where Joe discusses the new book, so we've got a true exclusive on our hands.So will this be the next chapter for our field? Listen to the episode to find out!As you listen to the conversation, I'd love for you to think about your own projects. Are you designing for "time well spent," or are you ready to guide your customers through a real identity shift?Enjoy the conversation and keep making a positive impact!Be well,~ Marc--- [ 1. GUIDE ] --- 00:00 Welcome to Episode 24604:45 Why the book is still relevant06:15 Progression of Economic Value11:00 Defining economic offerings13:00 Birth of the Transformation Economy17:30 Experience vs. Transformation20:30 Focusing on the "Aspirant"22:00 Time Saved vs. Time Well Spent25:00 Experience design examples27:00 Novelty and social bonding31:15 Investment for time32:30 Turning experiences into change34:30 Service vs. Experience design37:30 Moving to transformations38:30 The power of intentionality40:45 Using reflection to add value43:30 Changing your identity44:45 Goal: Human flourishing47:30 What it means to flourish49:30 Satisfaction vs. improvement50:45 The drive for better51:30 Designing for transformation54:00 Transformative learning56:30 The Golf Coach story01:00:15 The new book release01:01:00 Key takeaway from Joe Pine01:02:45 Final thoughts --- [ 2. LINKS ] --- LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/joepine/Website - https://strategichorizons.comBuy the book now --- [ 3. CIRCLE ] --- Join our private community for in-house service design professionals. ⁠https://servicedesignshow.com/circle[4. FIND THE SHOW ON]Youtube ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-youtubeSpotify ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-spotifyApple ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-appleSnipd ~ https://go.servicedesignshow.com/246-snipd

Σε αυτό το νέο podcast (Νο 190) της στήλης Business & Marketing Tips της Athens Voice με τίτλο «Από το “πόσο μου κοστίζει” στο “πόσο με γεμίζει”, συζητάμε συζητάμε The Experience Economy.Τι σημαίνει όμως «Οικονομία των Εμπειριών» και γιατί σήμερα είναι πιο επίκαιρη από ποτέ; Από το προφητικό βιβλίο των Joseph Pine II και James H. Gilmore (1999) μέχρι τη σημερινή πραγματικότητα των social media, του mobile internet και της διαρκούς “δημοσιοποίησης” της εμπειρίας, η αξία μετακινείται σταθερά από το προϊόν και την υπηρεσία προς κάτι πιο βαθύ: το συναίσθημα, τη συμμετοχή, τη μνήμη.Σε αυτό το podcast μιλάμε για το πώς φτάσαμε εδώ, γιατί πλέον κάθε επαφή με ένα brand μπορεί να γίνει δημόσια (και να πολλαπλασιάσει την αξία της εμπειρίας), και γιατί η «πολύ καλή εξυπηρέτηση» δεν είναι διαφοροποίηση — είναι το minimum. Το πραγματικό ανταγωνιστικό πλεονέκτημα βρίσκεται στο “κάτι παραπάνω” που κάνει τον πελάτη να νιώσει έκπληξη, χαρά, ενθουσιασμό ή συγκίνησηΚαι κάπου εδώ μπαίνει η πιστότητα: όχι ως αποτέλεσμα κουπονιών, πόντων και εκπτώσεων-πυροτεχνημάτων, αλλά ως αποτέλεσμα αυθεντικών στιγμών που δεν αντιγράφονται. Γιατί προϊόντα και υπηρεσίες αντιγράφονται. Μια εμπειρία που είναι ανθρώπινη, μοναδική και συναισθηματικά φορτισμένη, όχι.Αν θέλετε να μάθετε πώς συνδέεται η Οικονομία των Εμπειριών με το customer loyalty, το lifetime value και το πώς τα σύγχρονα brands σχεδιάζουν πλέον «εμπειρίες» και όχι απλώς «προσφορές», αυτό το επεισόδιο είναι για εσάς.

Happy New Year 2026! I love January and the opportunity to start afresh. I know it's arbitrary in some ways, but I measure my life by what I create, and I also measure it in years. At the beginning of each year, I publish an article (and podcast episode) here, which helps keep me accountable. If you'd like to share your goals, please add them in the comments below. 2026 is a transitional year as I will finish my Masters degree and continue the slow pivot that I started in December 2023 after 15 years as an author entrepreneur. Just to recap that, it was: From digitally-focused to creating beautiful physical books; From high-volume, low cost to premium products with higher Average Order Value; From retailer-centric to direct first; and From distance to presence, and From creating alone to the AI-Assisted Artisan Author. I've definitely stepped partially into all of those, and 2026 will continue in that same direction, but I also have an additional angle for Joanna Penn and The Creative Penn that I am excited about. If you'd like to join my community and support the show every month, you'll get access to my growing list of Patron videos and audio on all aspects of the author business — for the price of a black coffee (or two) a month. Join us at Patreon.com/thecreativepenn. Joanna Penn writes non-fiction for authors and is an award-winning, New York Times and USA Today bestselling thriller author as J.F. Penn. She's also an award-winning podcaster, creative entrepreneur, and international professional speaker. You can listen above or on your favorite podcast app or read the notes and links below. Here are the highlights and the full transcript is below. Leaning into the Transformation Economy The Creative Penn Podcast and my Patreon Community Webinars and live events Finish my Masters in Death, Religion, and Culture Bones of the Deep — J.F. Penn Add merch to CreativePennBooks.com and JFPennBooks.com How to Write, Publish, and Market Short Stories and Short Story Collections — Joanna Penn Other possible books Experiment more with AI translation Ideally outsource more marketing to AI, but do more marketing anyway Double down on being human, health and travel You can find all my books as J.F. Penn and Joanna Penn on your favourite online store in all the usual formats, or order from your local library or bookstore. You can also buy direct from me at CreativePennBooks.com and JFPennBooks.com. I'm not really active on social media, but you can always see my photos at Instagram @jfpennauthor. Leaning into the Transformation Economy I've struggled with my identity as Joanna Penn and my Creative Penn brand for a few years now. When I started TheCreativePenn.com in 2008, the term ‘indie author' was new and self-publishing was considered ‘vanity press' and a sure way to damage your author career, rather than a conscious creative and business choice. It was the early days of the Kindle and iPhone (both launched in 2007), and podcasting and social media were also relatively new. While US authors could publish on KDP, the only option for international authors was Smashwords and the market for ebooks was tiny. Print-on-demand and digital audio were also just emerging as viable options. While it was the early era of blogging, there were very few blogs and barely any podcasts talking about self-publishing, so when I started TheCreativePenn.com in late 2008 and the podcast in March 2009, it was a new area. For several years, it was like howling into the wind. Barely any audience. Barely any traffic, and certainly very little income.  But I loved the freedom and the speed at which I could learn things and put them into practice. Consume and produce. That has always been my focus. I met people on Twitter and interviewed them for my show, and over those early years I met many of the people I consider dear friends even now. Since self-publishing was a relatively unexplored niche in those early years, I slowly found an audience and built up a reputation. I also started to make more money both as an author, and as a creative entrepreneur. Over the years since, pretty much everything has changed for indie authors and we have had more and more opportunity every year. I've shared everything I've learned along the way, and it's been a wonderful time.  But as self-publishing became more popular and more authors saw more success (which is FANTASTIC!), other voices joined the chorus and now, there are many thousands of authors of all different levels with all kinds of different experiences sharing their tips through articles, books, podcasting, and social media. I started to wonder whether my perspective was useful anymore. On top of the human competition, in November 2022, ChatGPT launched, and it became clear that prescriptive non-fiction and ‘how to' information could very easily be delivered by the AI tools, with the added benefit of personalisation. You can ask Chat or Claude or Gemini how you can self-publish your particular book and they will help you step by step through the process of any site. You can share your screen or upload screenshots and it can help with what fields to fill in (very useful with translations!), as well as writing sales descriptions, researching keywords, and offering marketing help targeted to your book and your niche, and tailored to your voice. Once again, I questioned what value I could offer the indie author community, and I've pulled back over the last few years as I've been noodling around this. But over the last few weeks, a penny has dropped. Here's my thinking in case it also helps you. Firstly, I want to be useful to people. I want to help. In my early days of speaking professionally, from 2005-ish, I wanted to be the British (introvert) Tony Robbins, someone who inspired people to change, to achieve things they didn't think they could. Writing a book is one of those things. Making a living from your writing is another. So I leaned into the self-help and how-to niche. But now that is now clearly commoditised. But recently, I realised that my message has always been one of transformation, and in the following four areas.  From someone who doesn't think they are creative but who desperately wants to write a book, to someone who holds their first book in their hand and proudly says, ‘I made this.' The New Author. From someone who has no confidence in their author voice, who wonders if they have anything to say, to someone who writes their story and transforms their own life, as well as other people's. The Confident Author. From an author with one or a handful of books who doesn't know much about business, to a successful author with a growing business heading towards their first six figure year. The Author-Entrepreneur. And finally, from a tech-phobic, fearful author who worries that AI makes it pointless to create anything and will steal all the jobs, to a confident AI-assisted creative who uses AI tools to enhance and amplify their message and their income. The AI-Assisted Artisan Author. These are four transformations I have been through myself, and with my work as Joanna Penn/The Creative Penn, I want to help you through them as well. So in 2026, I am repositioning myself as part of The Transformation Economy. What does this mean? There is a book out in February, The Transformation Economy by B. Joseph Pine II, who is also the author of The Experience Economy, which drove a lot of the last decade's shift in business models. I have the book on pre-order, but in the meantime, I am doing the following. I will revamp TheCreativePenn.com with ‘transformation' as the key frame and add pathways through my extensive material, rather than just categories of how to do things. I've already added navigation pages for The New Author, The Confident Author, The Author-Entrepreneur, and The AI-Assisted Artisan Author, and I will be adding to those over time. My content is basically the same, as I have always covered these topics, but the framing is now different. The intent is different. The Creative Penn Podcast will lean more heavily into transformation, rather than just information — And will focus on the first three of the categories above, the more creative, mindset and business things.  My Patreon will continue to cover all those things, and that's also where I post most of my AI-specific content, so if you're interested in The AI-Assisted Artisan Author transformation path, come on over to patreon.com/thecreativepenn I have more non-fiction books for authors coming, and lots more ideas now I am leaning into this angle. I'll also continue to do webinars on specific topics in 2026, and also add speaking back in 2027. It's harder to think about transformation when it comes to fiction, but it's also really important since fiction books in particular are highly commodified, and will become even more so with the high production speeds. Yes, all readers have a few favourite authors but most will also read a ton of other books without knowing or caring who the author is. Fiction can be transformational. Reader's aren't buying a ‘book.' They're buying a way to escape, to feel deeply, to experience things they never could in real life. A book can transform a day from ‘meh' into ‘fantastic!' My J.F. Penn fiction is mostly inspired by places, so my stories transport you into an adventure somewhere wonderful, and they all offer a deeper side of transformative contemplation of ‘memento mori' if you choose to read them in that way.  They also have elements of gothic and death culture that I am going to lean into with some merch in 2026, so more of an identity thing than just book sales. I'm not quite sure what this means yet, but no doubt it will emerge. I'll also shape my JFPennBooks.com site into more transformative paths, rather than just genre lists, as part of this shift. My memoir Pilgrimage always reflected a transformation, both reflecting my own midlife shift but I've also heard from many who it has inspired to walk alone, or to travel on pilgrimage themselves. Of course, transformation is not just for our readers or the people we serve as part of our businesses. It's also for us. One of the reasons why we are writers is because this is how we think. This is how we figure out our lives. This is how we get the stories and ideas out of our heads and into the world. Writing and creating are transformative for us, too. That is part of the point, and a great element of why we do this, and why we love this. Which is why I don't really understand the attraction of purely AI-generated books. There's no fun in that for me, and there's no transformation, either. Of course, I LOVE using Chat and Claude and Gemini Thinking models as my brainstorming partners, my research buddies, my marketing assistants, and as daily tools to keep me sparkly. I smiled as I wrote that (and yes, I human-wrote this!) because sparkly is how I feel when I work with these tools. Programmers use the term ‘vibe coding' which is going back and forth and collaborating together, sparking off each other. Perhaps that I am doing is ‘vibe creation.' I feel it as almost an effervescence, a fun experience that has me laughing out loud sometimes. I am more creative, I am more in flow. I am more ‘me' now I can create and think at a speed way faster than ever before. My mind has always worked at speed and my fingers are fast on the keys but working in this way makes me feel like I create in the high performance zone far more often. I intend to lean more into that in 2026 as part of my own transformation (and of course, I share my experiences mainly in the Community at patreon.com/thecreativepenn ). [Note, I pay for access to all models, and currently use ChatGPT 5.2 Thinking, Claude Opus 4.5, and Gemini 3 Pro). So that's the big shift this year, and the idea of the Transformation Economy will underpin everything else in terms of my content. The Creative Penn Podcast and my Patreon Community The Creative Penn Podcast continues in 2026, although I am intending to reduce my interviews to once every two weeks, with my intro and other content in between. We'll see how that goes as I am already finding some fascinating people to talk to!  Thank you for your comments, your pictures, and also for sharing the episodes that resonate with you with the wider community. Your reviews are also super useful wherever you are listening to this, so please leave a review wherever you're listening this as it helps with discovery.  Thanks also to everyone in my Patreon Community, which I really enjoy, especially as we have doubled down on being human through more live office hours. I will do more of those in 2026 and the first one of the year will blearily UK time so Aussies and Kiwis can come. I also share new content almost every week, either an article, a video or an audio episode around writing craft, author business, and lots on different use cases for AI tools.  If you join the Patreon, start on the Collections tab where you will find all the backlist content to explore. It's less than the price of a coffee a month so if you get value from the show, and you want more, come on over and join us at patreon.com/thecreativepenn My Books and Travel Podcast is on hiatus for interviews, since the Masters is taking up the time I would have had for that. However I plan to post some solo episodes in 2026, and I also post travel articles there, like my visits to Gothic cathedrals and city breaks and things like that. Check it out at https://www.booksandtravel.page/blog/  Webinars and live events Along with my Patreon office hours, I'm enjoying the immediacy and energy of live webinars and they work with my focus on transformation, as well as on ‘doubling down on being human' in an age of AI, so I will be doing more this year. The first is on Business for Authors, coming on 10 and 24 January, which is aimed at helping you transform your author business in 2026, or if you're just getting started, then transform into someone who has even a small clue about business in general!Details at TheCreativePenn.com/live and Patrons get 25% off. In terms of live in-person events, it looks like I will be speaking at the Alliance of Independent Authors event at the London Book Fair in March, and I'll attend the Self-Publishing Show Live in June, although I won't be speaking. There might be other things that emerge, but in general, I'm not doing much speaking in 2026 because I need to … Finish my Masters in Death, Religion, and Culture This represents a lot of work as I am doing the course full-time. I should be finished in September, and much of the middle of the year will be focused on a dissertation. I'm planning on doing something around AI and death, so that will no doubt lead into some fiction at a later stage! Talking of fiction … Bones of the Deep — J.F. Penn The Masters is pretty serious, as is academic research and writing in general, and I found myself desperate to write a rollicking fun story over the holiday break between terms. I've talked about this ‘tall-ship' story for a while and now I'm committing to it. Back in 1999, I sailed on the tall-ship Soren Larsen from Fiji to Vanuatu, one of the three trips that shaped my life. It was the first time I'd been to the South Pacific, the first time I sailed blue water (with no land in sight), and I kept a journal and drew maps of the trip. It also helped me a make a decision to leave the UK and I headed for Australia nine months later in early 2000, and ended up being away 11 years in Australia and New Zealand. I came home to visit of course, but only moved back to the UK in 2011, so that trip was memorable and pivotal in many ways and has stuck in my mind. The story is based on that crossing, but of course, as J.F. Penn my imagination turns it into essentially a ‘locked room,' there is no escape out there, especially if the danger comes from the sea. Another strand of the story comes from a recent academic essay for my Masters, when I wrote about the changes in museum ethics around human remains and medical specimens i.e. body parts in jars, and how some remains have been repatriated to the indigenous peoples they were stolen from. I've also talked before about how I love ‘merfolk' horror like Into the Drowning Deep by Mira Grant, All the Murmuring Bones by A.G. Slatter, and Merfolk by Jeremy Bates. These are no smiling fantasy mermaids and mermen. They are predators. What might happen if the remains of a mer-saint were stolen from the deep, and what might happen to the ship that the remains are being transported in, and the people on board?  I'm about a third in, and I am having great fun! It will actually be a thriller, with a supernatural edge, rather than horror, and it is called Bones of the Deep, and it will be out on Kickstarter in April, and everywhere by the summer.  You can check out the Kickstarter pre-launch page with photos from my 1999 trip, the cover for the book, and the sales description at JFPenn.com/bones Add merch to CreativePennBooks.com and JFPennBooks.com I've dipped my toe into merch a number of times and then removed the products, but now I'm clear on my message of transformation, I want to revisit this. My books remain core for both sites, but for CreativePennBooks, I also want to add other products with what are essentially affirmations — ‘Creative,' ‘I am creative, I am an author,' and variants of the poster I have had on my wall for years, ‘Measure your life by what you create.' This is the affirmation I had in my wallet for years! For JFPennBooks, the items will be gothic/memento mori/skull-related. Everything will be print-on-demand. I will not be shipping anything myself, so I'm working with my designer Jane on this and then need to order test samples, and then get them added to the store. Likely mid-year at this rate! How to Write, Publish, and Market Short Stories and Short Story Collections — Joanna Penn I have a draft of this already which I expanded from the transcript of a webinar I did on this topic as part of The Buried and the Drowned campaign. It turns out I've learned a lot about this over the years, and also on how to make a collection, so I will get that out at some point this year. I won't do a Kickstarter for it, but I will do direct sales for at least a month and include a special edition, workbook, and bundles on my store first before putting it wide. I will also human-narrate that audiobook. Other possible books I'm an intuitive creative and discovery writer, so I don't plan out what I will write in a year. The books tend to emerge and then I pick the next one that feels the most important. After the ones above, there are a few candidates. Crown of Thorns, ARKANE thriller #14. Regular readers and listeners will know how much I love religious relics, and it's about time for a big one! I have a trip to Paris planned in the spring, as the Crown of Thorns is at Notre Dame, and I have some other locations to visit. My ARKANE thrillers always emerge from in-person travels, so I am looking forward to that. Maybe late 2026, maybe 2027. AI + religion technothriller/short stories. I already have some ideas sketched out for this and my Masters thesis will be something around AI, religion, and death, so I expect something will emerge from all that study and academic writing. Not sure what, but it will be interesting! The Gothic Cathedral Book. I have tens of thousands of words written, and lots of research and photos and thoughts. But it is still in the creative chaos phase (which I love!) and as yet has not emerged into anything coherent. Perhaps it will in 2026, and the plan is to re-focus on it after my Masters dissertation.  I feel like the Masters study and the academic research process will make this an even better book, But I am holding my plans for this lightly, as it feels like another ‘big' book for me, like my ‘shadow book' (which became Writing the Shadow) and took more than a decade to write! How to be Creative. I have also written bits and bobs on this over many years, but it feels like it is re-emerging as part of my focus on transformation. Probably unlikely for 2026 but now back on the list … Experiment more with AI translation AI-assisted translation has been around for years now in various forms, and I have experimented with some of the services, as well as working with human narrators and editors in different languages, as well as licensing books in translation. But when Amazon launched Kindle Translate in November 2025, it made me think that AI-assisted translation will become a lot more popular in 2026. AI audiobook narration became good enough for many audiobooks in 2025, and it seems like AI-translation will be the same in 2026. Yes, of course, human translation is still the gold standard, as is human narration, and that would be the primary choice for all of us — if it was affordable. But frankly, it's not affordable for most indie authors, and indeed many small publishers. Many books don't get an audiobook edition and most books don't get translated into every language. It costs thousands per book for a human translator, and so it is a premium option. I have only ever made a small profit on the books that I paid for with human translators and it took years, and while I have a few nice translation deals on some books, I'm planning to experiment more with AI translation in 2026. More languages, more markets, more opportunities to reach readers. More on this in the next episode when I'll cover trends for 2026. Ideally outsource more marketing to AI, but do more marketing anyway You have to reach readers somehow, and you have to pay for book marketing with your time and/or your money. Those authors killing it on TikTok pay with their time, and those leaning heavily on ads are paying with money. Most of us do a bit of both. There is no passive income from books, and even a backlist has to be marketed if you want to see any return. But I, like most authors, am not excited about book marketing. I'd rather be working on new books, or thinking about the ramifications of the changes ahead and writing or talking about that in my Patreon Community or here on the podcast. However, my book sales income remains about the same even as I (slowly) produce more books, so I need to do more book marketing in 2026. I said that last year of course, and didn't do much more than I did in 2024, so here I am again promising to do a better job! Every year, I hope to have my “AI book marketing assistant” up and running, and maybe this will be the year it happens. My measure is to be able to upload a book and specify a budget and say, ‘Go market this,' and then the AI will action the marketing, without me having to cobble together workflows between systems. Of course, it will present plans for me to approve but it will do the work itself on the various platforms and monitor and optimize things for me. We have something like that already with Amazon auto-ads, but that is specific to Amazon Advertising and only works with certain books in certain genres. I have auto-ads running for a couple of non-fiction books, but not for any fiction. I'd also ideally like more sales on my direct stores, JFPennBooks.com and CreativePennBooks.com which means a different kind of marketing. Perhaps this will happen through ChatGPT shopping or other AI-assisted e-commerce, which should be increasing in 2026. More on that in trends for the year to come in the next show. Double down on being human, health and travel I have a lot of plans for travel both for book research and also holidays with Jonathan but he has to finish his MBA and then we have some family things that take priority, so I am not sure where or when yet, but it will happen! Paris will definitely happen as part of the research for Crown of Thorns, hopefully in the spring. I've been to Paris many times as it's just across the Channel and we can go by train but it's always wonderful to visit again. Health-wise, I'll continue with powerlifting and weight training twice a week as well as walking every day. It's my happy place! What about you? If you'd like to share your goals for 2026, please add them in the comments below — and remember, I'm a full-time author entrepreneur so my goals are substantial. Don't worry if yours are as simple as ‘Finish the first draft of my book,' as that still takes a lot of work and commitment! All the best for 2026 — let's get into it! The post My 2026 Creative And Business Goals With Joanna Penn first appeared on The Creative Penn.

International markets are having a strong year, with most beating the S&P 500. Meta buys another AI startup. Plus, consumers turn to experiences over products. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

We experience the world through what we notice, how we feel, and what we remember. Yet most organizations still focus on products instead of the experiences those products create. Mat Duerden has spent his career studying how experiences work, why they matter, and what turns an ordinary moment into something meaningful or even transformative. In this episode, Dart and Mat discuss what makes an experience meaningful and how reflection deepens its impact. They look at how organizations can build experience playbooks that bring brand, culture, and design together into one coherent story.Mat Duerden is the Department Chair of Experience Design and Management at the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University. He is the co-author of Designing Experiences and a researcher focused on how experiences become memorable, meaningful, and transformative.In this episode, Dart and Mat discuss:- Why attention drives every experience- What makes experiences memorable, meaningful, or transformative?- What designers of work can learn from studying leisure- How core design principles travel across contexts- Why experiences should be orchestrated, not staged.- How hardship can make experiences more powerful- How shared experiences build connection- What Bach and river rafting have in common- How telling the story helps learning stick- And other topics…Mat Duerden is the Department Chair of the Experience Design and Management program at the Marriott School of Business at Brigham Young University. His research examines how experiences become memorable, meaningful, and transformative, with a focus on reflection, storytelling, and attention. He is the co-author of Designing Experiences, written with Bob Rossman, and teaches experience design across business, education, and leisure contexts. Prior to academia, Mat worked extensively in outdoor recreation and youth development, shaping his interest in how shared experiences create connection.Resources Mentioned:Designing Experiences, by Mat Duerden & Bob Rossman: https://www.amazon.com/Designing-Experiences-Columbia-Business-Publishing/dp/0231191685 Nicomachean Ethics, by Aristotle: https://www.amazon.com/Nicomachean-Ethics-Penguin-Classics/dp/0140449493 Experience Economy, by Joe Pine & James Gilmore: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Updated-Joseph-Pine/dp/1422161978Connect with Mat:Faculty Page: https://marriott.byu.edu/directory/details?id=5773 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mat-duerden-8740969/Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

Customers defect after they have endured enough doses of la-di-da service. Time is the currency of the Experience Economy. When customers sense the violation of their time, they usually say goodbye to that vendor. It is simply their way to punish bad service. Where is your company in this cause and effect equation? Is it time to revise your service mindset?Support the show

Something big is happening in the creator world: creators are turning their online audiences into real-world destinations. From tours to immersive pop-ups, we're entering the Experience Economy — a shift that resembles the early days of Disney. In this episode, we talk about why creators are moving offline, what it says about the volatility of digital media, and where the creator business model is heading next. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

As the CEO of Art Basel, Noah Horowitz has made it his mission to ensure that the international art platform is seen, valued, and experienced—far beyond its art-fair roots—as a cultural catalyst and “opportunity accelerator.” Over the past 55 years, beginning with its tight-knit origins in Basel, Switzerland, in 1970, Art Basel has evolved into an international juggernaut, with best-in-class fairs also in Miami Beach, Hong Kong, and Paris—and soon, under Horowitz's leadership, Qatar, with an edition debuting there in February 2026. With more than two decades of experience, and as a tireless advocate and enthusiast for all things art, from artists and galleries to collectors and institutions, Horowitz is exactly the right person for the job.On this episode of Time Sensitive, Horowitz details his ambitious agenda to stretch Art Basel's reach into realms far beyond what would traditionally be considered the art world; shares his long-view perspective on the economics of art; and considers the centuries-old history that, in a roundabout way, helped lead to—and continues to inform and shape—today's art market.Show notes: [05:13] Art Basel Paris[05:13] Art Basel Qatar[05:13] Art Basel Miami Beach[05:13] Art Basel Hong Kong[07:54] Frida Escobedo[10:41] The Art Basel and UBS 2025 Survey of Global Collecting[10:41] Art Basel Awards[21:27] Rei Naito[23:51] Art of the Deal: Contemporary Art in a Global Financial Market (2011)[27:42] Rirkrit Tiravanija[41:18] High Art Lite: The Rise and Fall of Young British Art (2020)[32:42] KAWS[39:04] Princeton Record Exchange[42:18] Frieze[42:52] Hans Ulrich Obrist[42:52] Okwui Enwezor[45:00] Rem Koolhaas[45:57] Kirk Varnedoe[45:57] Pictures of Nothing: Abstract Art Since Pollock (2006)[50:05] Talking Prices: Symbolic Meanings of Prices on the Market for Contemporary Art (2005)[51:49] Clare McAndrew[54:42] The Experience Economy (2019)[58:43] Vincenzo de Bellis[1:03:04] Pérez Art Museum

On this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different, we sit down with business thinker Joe Pine, the legendary co-author of "The Experience Economy," for an in-depth conversation about building a career around unique ideas. Joe Pine shares insights from his early days as a self-described nerd at IBM to his role in shaping the field of mass customization and ultimately designing a business that made him stand out as a category of one. The discussion moves fluidly from personal transformation to the sweeping changes he helped pioneer in business, and what it means to thrive as a creator capitalist in today's rapidly changing world. You're listening to Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different. We are the real dialogue podcast for people with a different mind. So get your mind in a different place, and hey ho, let's go.   Finding a Different Path: From Palo Alto to Publishing with Harvard Joe Pine's journey began in Palo Alto during the era of the Arpanet, with technology in his blood and a passion for applied mathematics. Pine joined IBM in 1980, at its peak as arguably the most desirable company for ambitious technologists. Despite a technical start, he found himself increasingly drawn to management, strategy, and the world of business ideas. His trajectory changed dramatically when IBM sent him to MIT for a master's in the management of technology. There, Pine encountered Stan Davis's concept of "mass customization" and felt a lightning bolt of inspiration. Deciding to turn his MIT thesis into a book, Pine landed a contract with Harvard Business School Press. The credential of publishing with Harvard, he notes, was a powerful stamp of intellectual rigor. As he recalls, “Harvard puts its stamp on it, says this is intellectually rigorous. This is a good book. This ought to be out in the world, and we want to publish it.”   Joe Pine on Leaping from Employee to Icon, and Creating the Experience Economy With his first book in hand, Pine found himself at a crossroads. The culture at IBM was changing, and a timely severance package offered him a financial cushion to take a risk. Encouraged by thought leaders he admired, he struck out on his own. Initially, IBM remained his primary client, but Pine quickly built a reputation for leading-edge thinking and collaborating with other luminaries like Don Peppers and Jim Gilmore. The launch of "The Experience Economy" marked a turning point, not just for Pine, but for the business landscape itself. He didn't merely spot a trend or invent a new buzzword; he named and framed a fundamental shift in the economy's fabric. “We didn't identify a fad, but a fundamental change in the fabric of the economy. And if it is a change in the economy, then it is always going to go like that, right? Until something surpasses it and it starts to go down as happened with commodities and goods and services.” The central idea that businesses must stage memorable experiences to remain relevant only grew more compelling over time, with Pine's frameworks gaining more relevance as the digital age accelerated.   Transformation and Identity in the Age of AI As the episode moves to the present, Pine discusses how transformation, both personal and organizational, is ultimately about changing identity. He credits much of his own success to an ability to recognize patterns and develop frameworks to describe and prescribe changes in business. Pine's recent work, including his Substack and newest book, explores not just customer experience but transformation itself, emphasizing that “all transformation is identity change.” The conversation turns to AI and the breaking waves of change it represents for businesses today, paralleling Pine's earlier identification of evolving economic eras. He sees transformation as most successful when companies or individuals are willing to fundamentally shift who they are, not just what they do. “The identity issues there are paramount because who you think you are often stops you from being able to do these things because it would change who you are so much.” Joe Pine believes that in the new world shaped by AI, those who can shed old identities and truly reinvent themselves—much as he did when he left IBM—will be the ones to define the next era. The lesson for aspiring creator capitalists is clear: the greatest value comes not only from unique ideas but also from the courage to turn those ideas into new identities, new categories, and new realities. To hear more from Joe Pine and how he built a business with his Intellectual Capital, download and listen to this episode.    Bio Joe Pine is a renowned author, speaker, and management advisor best known as the co-author of The Experience Economy, a groundbreaking book that reshaped how businesses create value. His work introduced the concept that companies must orchestrate memorable experiences to remain competitive in an evolving marketplace. With deep expertise in innovation and customer experience design, Joe helps organizations around the world architect differentiated experiences that drive growth and loyalty. He has worked with leading global brands across industries from retail and hospitality to healthcare and technology. Joe is also a sought-after keynote speaker and co-founder of Strategic Horizons LLP. His insights continue to influence leaders seeking to transform the way they engage customers.   Links Connect with Joe Pine! LinkedIn | Strategic Horizons   We hope you enjoyed this episode of Christopher Lochhead: Follow Your Different™! Christopher loves hearing from his listeners. Feel free to email him, connect on Facebook, X (formerly Twitter), Instagram, and subscribe on Apple Podcast / Spotify!

Welcome to episode 215 of Sports Management Podcast. Today's guest is Jordy Leiser - the CEO of Jump, a platform which is redefining the fan experience, from AI-driven personalization to direct-to-consumer fan engagement. We spoke about: Why teams need to own their fan relationships How AI personalizes the sports experience The story behind Jump's $25M raise Working with Alexis Ohanian, Alex Rodriguez & Mark Lore The future of global fan engagement And much more! Time stamps: 00:01 Intro 00:30 Jump - connects the full fan experience 01:23 Partnering with North Carolina Courage and Minnesota Timberwolves 03:18 The meaning of "vertical platform" in sports tech 05:36 How Jump replaces legacy ticketing systems 07:51 Using AI to personalize fan experiences 10:58 Why direct-to-consumer fan relationships matter 15:01 Raising $25M led by Alexis Ohanian 18:23 Global expansion opportunities 20:32 Remote-first company culture & trust 23:19 Jordy's path from finance to sports entrepreneurship 33:47 Resilience through setbacks 39:15 Advice for young professionals in sports 40:35 Outro   Follow Sports Management Podcast on social media Instagram Twitter LinkedIn YouTube www.sportsmanagementpodcast.com

✅ The experience economy is booming, and in this episode, Dawn Farrow, a leading marketing strategist and female founder, reveals how to thrive in it.If you're trying to sell tickets to live events, navigate the world of immersive marketing, or just want to understand how to stand out in the experiential marketing space—this is your roadmap. Dawn has helped market events tied to massive global brands like Squid Game and Friends, and she understands how to turn emotional desire into sold-out shows.She explains why people spend thousands on experiences, not things—and how you can tap into that behavior to increase your ticket sales, create fandom, and grow your event brand.This episode is perfect for:Event promoters struggling with event promotionMarketing teams looking for insights into hybrid eventsEntrepreneurs navigating today's post-COVID demand for live and immersive experiencesFemale founders seeking resilience and strategic growth adviceDawn doesn't just talk theory—she's built and sold a successful agency, now leads On Sale Group, and connects a global network of marketers shaping the future of live experiences.Whether you're producing immersive theater, launching an exhibit, or selling tickets to a festival, this interview gives you the insight and confidence to grow your brand in today's experience economy.

Most organizations think about the design of work in terms of products, services, or customer journeys. But Dave Norton has spent his career arguing that experience design goes much deeper. It is about shaping how people spend their time and, in some cases, their lives. In this episode, Dart talks to Dave about how experience design has evolved, why context matters more than personality, and how AI may finally make transformational design scalable.Dave Norton is the founder of Stone Mantel, an insights consultancy focused on helping companies create meaningful experiences for their customers and employees. A pioneer in experience strategy, he helps organizations across industries rethink the meaning of time, transformation, and context in design.In this episode, Dart and Dave discuss:- The evolution of experience design- Why context matters more than customer psychology- How to design time that is well saved, well spent, and well invested- Why transformation requires discomfort- The power of modes and modularity in designing for focus- How to design whole offerings that get the “whole job” done- Why AI could help scale transformational design- And other topics…Dave Norton is the founder of Stone Mantel, the experience strategy firm built on the belief that meaningful work is less about what you sell and more about how people spend their time. He began working with Joe Pine, co-author of The Experience Economy, in the early 2000s and in 2005 launched Stone Mantel to help organizations design experiences that are “time well spent.” Over the years, he has guided clients across industries, including healthcare, banking, and hospitality, shifting the focus from features to whole offerings and from channels to moments.Resources Mentioned:Stone Mantle: https://www.stonemantel.co/ The Experience Strategist (Substack): https://theexperiencestrategist.substack.com/ The Experience Economy, by B. Joseph Pine II and James H. Gilmore: https://www.amazon.com/Experience-Economy-Competing-Customers-Service/dp/1422161978Connect with Dave:LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davenortonphd/ Work with Dart:Dart is the CEO and co-founder of the work design firm 11fold. Build work that makes employees feel alive, connected to their work, and focused on what's most important to the business. Book a call at 11fold.com.

How do you market the experience of walking through rooms of illusion that flip reality on its head? In this episode, Stephanie Postles chats with Andy Levey, the mastermind CMO behind the Museum of Illusions, to discover how to craft unforgettable moments that captivate audiences. Learn how to apply these strategies to market brands that sell experiences - from local business, SaaS, B2B, and more. Key Moments:00:00 Andy Levey Turns Wonder Into Marketing Strategy02:00 Inside the World's Most Photographed Museum04:00 From Wall Street to Vegas Viral Experiences07:30 Building the Biggest Brand No One's Heard Of09:30 Cracking the Local Playbook for Global Growth14:14 Data and Science Behind Going Viral16:44 Marketing FOMO With Radio and Influencers19:00 Winning Local Search and the AI-Discoverability Game24:00 Bringing Emotion Back to B2B Marketing27:23 How to Make Customers Feel Your Product33:43 Lessons from Failed Launches38:10 Using AI to Scale Creative, Not Replace It45:00 The Best Marketing Campaigns51:00 Marketing Trends Outro Mission.org is a media studio producing content alongside world-class clients. Learn more at mission.org. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Populous Principal Matthew Breest shares how art, culture, community, and technology are shaping next-generation stadiums, arenas, and mixed-use districts — from Denver's record-setting women's soccer stadium to Greeley's new arena development. For show notes and more: https://ninedotarts.com/podcast-from-isolated-arenas-to-community-anchors/ 

Between 250,000-300,000 tourists land on the island every year, 2,500 a day in summer, and yet it still feels authentic, alive, and deeply Irish. In this episode, we ask: how do remote places like Inishmore thrive in today's economy, while once-wealthy regions like France's Île de Ré struggle with emptying out? We dig into the wild history of cod and salt (the currency of empires), why Ireland salted beef instead of fish, and how the Aran Islands are now punching above their weight in the global experience economy. From lobster-pot pubs to the death of distance, we explore what makes people pay not just for goods and services, but for memory, tribe, and authenticity. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

In this episode, we're talking Millennials and Gen Z versus Gen X and Baby Boomers. The financial priorities of each generation are WILDLY different! We discuss why younger generations desire experiences, from international trips to concerts, and how social media fuels these desires. Plus, get ready for some real talk as we share personal stories from raising our own almost Millennial and Gen Z daughters, tackling the struggle of living in the now while still planning for tomorrow. This episode is your guide to bridging the generational gap, whether you're a parent, a young adult, or just curious about how to enjoy life today AND build a solid future. As our podcast title states, we believe people can have more than one thing at a time. Tune in to hear our take on the changing spending climate. Our website: www.forbetterandworth.com Get Ericka's book, Naked and Unashamed: 10 Money Conversations Every Couple Must Have Check out our local TV spotlight Connect with us: Instagram: @forbetterandworth YouTube: @forbetterandworth Ericka: @erickayoungofficial Chris: @1cbyoung

In this episode, we're talking Millennials and Gen Z versus Gen X and Baby Boomers. The financial priorities of each generation are WILDLY different! We discuss why younger generations desire experiences, from international trips to concerts, and how social media fuels these desires. Plus, get ready for some real talk as we share personal stories from raising our own almost Millennial and Gen Z daughters, tackling the struggle of living in the now while still planning for tomorrow. This episode is your guide to bridging the generational gap, whether you're a parent, a young adult, or just curious about how to enjoy life today AND build a solid future. As our podcast title states, we believe people can have more than one thing at a time.  Tune in to hear our take on the changing spending climate.       Our website: www.forbetterandworth.com Get Ericka's book, Naked and Unashamed: 10 Money Conversations Every Couple Must Have Check out our local TV spotlight Connect with us: Instagram: @forbetterandworth YouTube: @forbetterandworth Ericka: @erickayoungofficial Chris: @1cbyoung