Back2Different

"Doesn't work up to expectations" was inscribed repeatedly on my report card. Heather's too. She's danced professionally, I coincidentally, and we both love it. We talk about raising thinkers, loving what is whether we like it or not, discovering and working the shift that makes us feel better, and moments of humanity.A community of two, old friends rediscovered, two people finding themselves in the same lifeboat and figuring out how to row, though not identically, together, and, of course, realizing that of course it's non-linear.Join us.Please.

"You may have to wait to talk, but you never have to wait to listen." Every back2different podcast starts with a 5-10 minute story - the guest's answer to "How did you get here?" That's all we need to move forward together. Just notice and connect.Jenlyn UNBN and I travel together for an hour and explore grieving, "the gray zone," our core selves, circumstance and experience, sexuality, kidnapping, EMS service, shamanism, and "I cannot give from an empty cup."Tag along for a bit and ride with as as curiosity becomes audacity.

We had a wonderful journey together, Sarah and I, as we shared her blossoming, awakening, I guess, as an adult. As she says, "I found my voice at 40." A classically trained singer, she was invited to sing in a surf band her husband had started and suggested "I can't do rock and roll." Guess what happened next, right? Give us a listen, please, and find out why she was advised to "Land the plane, Sarah!"

I was never diagnosed with oppositional defiant disorder. Of course, the label didn't exist until 1980, so I simply received more than one report card that said, 'Seems to have difficulties following direction." As a lifelong teacher, I often clashed with the administration, who struck me as hidebound and beset by a "let's not make waves" perspective. My biases.Amy Gallie has been a school administrator for much of her life. She's smart, candid, fun and loves, loves, loves children. We talk about single-gender classrooms, failing forward, the gap between teaching and administering, having at least one silly project to avoid burnout, and high responsibility coupled with low autonomy - a frustration of administrators that had never occurred to me. Listen along as I meet and engage a wonderfully principled principal.

I have always suspected that lots of planets lined up identically for Victor's and my births. We don't finish each other's sentences, but we do finish each other's paragraphs.Contemplatives, dogma, dynamism, solipsism, belief systems, impressions and projections, impersonation, human spirit progression (with a long gestation and difficult birth) gave us some things to talk about, and then we took a breath and forged ahead.Victor is a delight and a wonder, a gentle soul who shares with me the beckoning light of curiosity. Take a journey with a couple of Globs of Energy.

I met Gina Mazza during an online conversation about creativity. Took us a bit of back-and-forth to get to recording, and then a few delays to mix and load. With every minute.She's had a variegated career - something we share. We speak on God and the church, meaning and work, and the evidence for a major evolutionary shift in human kind's consciousness. Join us as we agree that we're not here to be stagnant.

Via my wonderful friend Craig James arrived Maggie Jackson. So here's a tiny sample of our journey together:The unease of uncertainty is actually a gift.Ambivalent CEOs are actually better performers.It's fear of uncertainty that sets you back, not uncertainty itself.Try on the Unknown.What does it mean to be human now that we are married to these technologies?That's just for starters. Come join us, please, as we explore the rich and wonderful topography that abides between The Islands of our Knowledge.

Carey Corr has a marvelous story. He is a film-maker and carries a boundless sense of curiosity and adventure. He's fearless and we share the excitement of new ideas alongside a deep suspicion of knowing as a way to live - it's embracing how little we know that gives us energy.Education, Laurel & Hardy, W. C. Fields, science fiction B movies, no holds barred as we realize that, each of us, as boys, realize that "I thought a Lot Older."

I met Clarabelle Miray Fields on a forum about creativity and knew I'd need to listen more to what she had to explore. She was self-publishing when she was four, binding her own books using her mother's hole-punch and yarn. She writes speculative fiction, both prose and poetry, and we take a stroll through the land of creativity. She's thoughtful, wide-ranging and candid. And she firmly believes that for writing to grab us, It Has to be Raw.

We gathered each other through a mutual friend, Colin Smith. Glenn Behenna worked in the steel industry, as a member of the constabulary (a cop), went back to school, and now he is a Senior Lecturer and Senior Fellow at University of Wales Trinity St. David. He didn't hit his academic stride early, though as he says, "It must have been in there somewhere." We explore culture, society, education, government, "legislated inoffensiveness," change and hope. A couple of well-seasoned guys who are, after all, distinctly average.Have fun and enjoy the beauty, the poetry, of his Welsh voice.

Music, toxic HR culture, confounded with structure, 'I cycled through the pandemic,' moral hazard and money to be made, exam strategies and rock songs, and then our conversation took off. How can you not like listening in on a conversation with Peter Cook, who wrote Sex, Leadership and Rock N 'RolI: Leadership Lessons from the Academy of Rock?We're each (and both) proponents of a world where jobs encourage people to bring their brains to work.

We can be successful in business, outwardly merry, envied and admired. At the same time, we may be carrying a corrosive load of trauma, unhealed emotional and spiritual bruises that can lead to broken relationships, thoughts of suicide, and addictions both behavioral and chemical.Spend some time with Michael Padurano and me as we explore the pain that leads to showering in the dark, and the redemption of a healing oasis.

No stone left unturned in this one. Tamsin Astor is fearless, peripatetic (as in she's been all over the place geographically and educationally), and embracing. I would love to get together with all the back2different community, walk together for a while, then just sit and listen. I am very blessed to be part of this wondrous crowd, and Tamsin is no exception.Tamsin and I run through the Irish goodbye, the dance of the universe, being a good faker, feeling too much, change as life, and all within the organizing principle of A Pillar of Pleasure.Put your top down and have fun.

Jim Burke appeared through my connection with Craig James, and each connection enriches the other. I finally got some time with Jim and off we went, looking carefully into kinds of questions, since the questions we ask, not the answers we find, shape our reality. We batted around living through "Have you thought about this?"We agreed that we both don't know nothin' and just had a grand time traveling through our stories together, both having reached a wonderful step in our road and reaching this conclusion: Be careful not to should all over yourself. Join us for some fun, please.

I hate scratching my head with "I wonder what s/he meant by that?" First of all, I'm an inept fill-in-the-unspoken-part practitioner. Hence my pleasure at getting together with Phil Williams. He wears no barriers and carries no shields. We travel through Stevens-Johnson Syndrome, time in the burn unit, his family and their home, music, and 'the great perhaps,' among other things. We both dreamed of being engineers, the choo-choo kind, but for very different reasons. Nothing is out of bounds, including his argument why we might consider the advantage if we can sit in the dining car with total strangers.

So Ileana and I explore trees, quiet, burls, pushing less and being more, Cra-Cra, chickens, naps, a sky with no airplanes, and "the moment you start laughing at yourself, that's when you're free."Ileana grew up in Venezuela, worked 24 years with Exxon Mobile, then skipped out (like a happy child) to found Colibri Business Development. She helps local and international businesses, especially those in the energy market, with their growth and development. Once she went out on her own, she realized this is your hummingbird.She's transparent, excited, and a joy.

Brooke left behind her home country - Turkey -  and her successful career at IBM to find a new home - San Diego - and to start her own consulting businesses:purposeful.business is a site for the organizational side of work, yourbestlifeinc.com is for individuals. She made her giant step as she realized that who she was, the singular and only Ozlem, was vanishing. Her humanity and identity were falling away as a requisite for success in the world of corporate homogeneity. She's fun, smart, shining with the energy that builds when we focus on becoming ourselves, not ego but survival. We talk about loyalty, millennials, values, success, and why change toward humanity at work is "common sense but not commonplace,"  for starters.Join us, please, for our questions and conversation about why Everybody is Waiting for Friday.

Craig James is my trust talker. We never plan nothin'. One of us brings a thought, an idea, an event, a confusion, and then we start bouncing around like the lights from a mirror ball. It's fun, comfortable, and fearless. Without intent, without control, no matter how far we go, the conversation brings us back to where we started. It's not linear and it's not mysterious, it's just true. Give us a listen as we both realize I'm going wonderment. Buckle up!

What a combo of insight and humility is Melissa.  I know, that sounds like the first line of a sonnet - she and I tend toward the childlike and the fun. In our time with microphones, we explore -The Rat TicklerWhat's my Cat Hair?Math tests and egg timers"I don't just hire people who are smarter than me, I listen to them."Glial cells - the day shift and the night shiftCortisol overproduction and brain cell erosion - and then we get down to some serious stuff. Please join us as we hike within that three-pound wrinkly mass between your ears.

In any conversation that includes Roger and Colin, I wait comfortably in silence for their contributions. What I get for a small investment of patience is wisdom, empathy, and self-effacing humor. When I asked Roger to contribute to Gender Crap, he hedged a bit. It turns out what he saw (or heard, I suppose) in the title was very different from my intent, which led to a wonderful conversation followed by his remarkable contribution. Please join us as Roger reads, and the three of us explore, the complexity and insight of "The Rise of the Feminine."BTW, Gender Crap will publish May 30th, 2023 and the ebook is available right now at https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0C4QB1XMQ. The price is $2.95, free with Kindle Unlimited. Any proceeds go the Doctors Without Borders.

Byron Edgington and Mariah Edgington pay complement to each other very well indeed. They don't complete each others' sentences - a practice I find quickly tiring - but they never fail to leave the other space to help populate the insight of whatever we're trying to understand. They are both and separately devoted to opening up possibilities, and they are part of a growing critical mass of those who are candid, humane, and do not suffer BS gladly. We explore the 60s, legacy, service and more as they help me understand that in some ways, the year in Vietnam was the safe part.

Vura's voices are a joy. His speaking voice, his perspective, and his poetry, each rings straight and true. We both love writing and it brings us such pleasure that we spend a good part of this episode laughing. Vura serves on the Hertfordshire County Council in the UK and has a background in project management, as well as giving his time and energy to youth and recovery work. For two people of different generation, location, and race, we find a foundation of brotherhood, and isn't that what's it's all about? Take a listen as we talk and as Vura reads a marvelous poem, Tranquil in the Hill , during our exploration of Poetry, the Sound of our Story.Vura is also a featured contributor ("The Agenda") to the upcoming book. Gender Crap, to be released May 15, 2023.

Andee  and I discovered a parallel journey of confronting and casting off outmoded ways of thinking - "the lies we chose to believe . . . I just learned it that way." We've both had winding journeys - I won't say career because neither of us has been that linear. And during the bumps and chasms of those journeys, we both found that once we started being clear and honest, The World Just Opened. Enjoy!

I grew up engulfing as much science fiction - and, later, what would be labeled speculative fiction - as possible, so connecting with Joseph Carrabis was a natural. Like me, he loves to write and is fearless in his exploration of ideas, plot, character and things in general. He's served as a mathematician, data scientist, chief research officer and, well, you get the picture. Join us as we talk about the light in their eyes.

Amy Olmedo's life has not been so much a series of forks as a series of switchbacks. Her journey provides a clarity about trauma, change, and courage that will help you take stock, and take aim, at finding and living as yourself. As Oscar Wilde suggested, "Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken."Join us for a wonderful exploration of versions of the truth.

Bruno grabbed me from our first conversation. He is candid, smart, and powered by a strong sense of innovation and empathy. His book, The Art of Compassionate Business, is interesting as well as compelling. I have not finished it - full disclosure - and I'm caught up by his perspective. We talk about qualitative analysis, education, replacing Human Resources (yuck) with Human Assets, a dialogue that circles and goes back to his, and my, central thesis: Treating Employees Well is Good Business.

The Rise of the Ambidextrous Organization is Eric's remarkable contribution to our understanding of a new way of thinking and of doing business. He and I have a romp through thinking, childhood, the creative machine, "you're not your brain," and The Memory Palace. Then we really hit the ground running. He and I connect like a couple of long-lost friends washed ashore together on a deserted isle.Join us. As far as the future is concerned,  we both have no doubts that something interesting is going to happen.

Michael and I got together to record one of the early episodes of back2different. I know how passionately involved he is in his work with education, schools, and leadership, so I tapped him to record a contribution to Humanity@Work.You will enjoy and be moved by his vision for improvement.

Susan Sneath and I share the experience of working as an actor, a tendency toward being wildly candid, and a willingness to boldly go . . . . I had a tough time with the title for this episode - I'm looking at a list of nine quotes from Susan that would be bang-up for where we went, but I think this is the best to capture her enthusiasm and courage.Acting, health, vulnerability, respect, dignity, hope, life, and more are among the hairpin turns we make together as we try to figure out what is the wit that would heal us?Tea of any sort and a small scone are the prefect accompaniment for this episode.

I'm reminded again how much we need, and how quickly we move toward, friendship during this dislocation. Ryan Maloney and I both played in many bands for years and years. We both played in rhythm sections (bass for me and drums for him), which creates a special bond. Most of us know, though we're not aware of it, that without a good drummer and bass player, your band's gonna suck. We also cover life, mental health, isolation, happiness, art, spirit, and the crushing experience of corporate culture. Join us, feel the drummed bass of your favorite music, and enjoy the ride!

Okay, so we cover . . .mental health       being incarcerated             AI               hallucinating                   graffiti                        feeding the hungry ghost . . .and that's just for starters.  Jonathan is the author of Mission2Moga, a very interesting dystopian novel. He was a fixture among the crews of Brooklyn by age five, and, as Mark Twain suggested, "never let my schooling interfere with my education." Fasten your shoulder harness for our trip while we look back as if nothing happened.

A wild and variegated journey with

Wow. So Tony and I go on a tear through our shared history and abiding love of music. He's from Manchester, UK, and he was intricately involved with the music scene there, starting with selling records out os his van, going upstairs at Virgin Rags (an early precursor to the Virgin records empire), following local acts like U2 and wrapped in the David Bowie phenomenon early on. We both see the possibility of a return to more local music, a move away from the domination of accounting and the blossoming of community-through-music, a landscape that encourages and provides venues for original artists who actually create music rather than layer lyrics on top of other people's samples. Along the way, we have quite a time, as both of us have developed intimately within the company of music.

Melissa is a delight. We've shared many conversations, always building on each other's ideas and energy. She brings an analytical approach to experience that fills in the gaps my loosely and widely ranging curiosity sometimes skips past. So we spend about an hour exploring how the brain works (or not), how much we overestimate our (illusion of) rationality, why facts don't matter in most conversations, how we can be self-skeptical and let go of shame, punching back, and much, much more. Mixing this podcast made me go back and listen to portions again and again. You can also sign up for Melissa's Neuronuggets, which are great fun and will make your brain explode. In a nice way.Sit back and enjoy Neuroscience, my guilty pleasure.

Jon and I share a passion for music. We both also have itchy feet. He has been in sales, marketing, training design, graphics, and more. Since 2013, he has been developing TBAIMS - Connecting through Music. He loves discovering musicians and performers who are distinctive, creative and willing to fight the good fight to be seen and heard. It's a tough business, and Jon provides all kinds of support and feedback to fuel their development.We travel together through the performing arts, rock and roll, Woodstock, the music industry, politics and greed in our conversation. Please join us and meet Jon, who holds nothing back as we realize that music abides.

Jag and I went round and round . . . and round for 6 weeks for a bunch of reasons before we sat down for a wonderful trip together. She is not to be trifled with, and we fed off each others' energy on our wild ride. Her story, her courage, her uninhibited version of life and its lessons will grab you. Please join us, buckle your seatbelts, and listen while she helps me - and all of us - get why it's easier for us to expel than inhale. Love and life, that is.

Catherine Fitzgerald is one of the contributors to back2different who had a 'straight' career - linear, climbing the corporate ladder, that kind of thing, and then realized it wasn't working. So off she went, fear, courage, determination and possibilities in hand and made her own thing. She's business-focused, and she has discovered that we can re-define 'profit' to exclude 'dehumanization.'She helps people find their own, and others around them, paths that tie value to humanity, and she understands that "leaders are not doers, they're the developers of doers." Bravo. We have a great romp that explores lots of byways and side ways, as we agree that my humanity does not diminish my value. Enjoy!

The beat goes on, doesn't it? My friend Shara suggested I get in touch with Kristina Holle. Here's what happened next: I discovered Kristina was following an expected path in the realms of the corporate world and suddenly veered off when that path grew narrower and narrower. Instead, she has chosen to explore and discover. Someone after my own heart. She recently published The Authentic You ,  and she astonished herself with the energy and focus that appeared during that project - it reinforced her faith in taking off on her own.Kristina is absolutely candid and courageous, and we fly through a conversation about possibilities and leaving fear behind, lighting up our own lives. As she suggests, Why wait for the end of the tunnel?

This is the first episode focused on Humanity@work. I'll be hosting a series of conversations based on a simple premise: setting aside the issue of pay (not to ignore the idea, but to set that apart), what do you want your job to provide for you and what do you want work not to do to you.?Join me with Shara, Andrew, Alex and Brett as we find that I can work better when I know where I am and I have my team around me.

Lots of change, lots of discomfort, lots of growth - Eileen Bild is living a no-holds-barred kind of life that many of us might find scary. Not that she is a spinning target for a knife-throwing act at the carnival, but because she embraces everything that comes her way. We bounce around and laugh as we explore pretty nearly everything in our time together, both of us engaging a time in our lives that is not the beginning and not the end, but that in-between state. Buckle your seat belts.

Last September, Shara Lewis-Campbell. Andrew Foster and I all came together and had an idea: How about if work felt more like purpose and less like a sentence?Last week, this idea was published: Humanity@Work, an ebook, paperback and hard copy that brought together over 35 people from around the world to contribute their insight about work. And life. And humanity.So join us for a little while as we laugh and talk and laugh about how all this came together and where we hope it goes. The project is completely pro bono, btw, all proceeds going to Doctors Without Borders.

So Sybil Cummin is the friend of a friend. She lives in Colorado, and she has quite a story. “Knock on any door” as people say. She is a very accomplished gymnast, outstanding student, and a recovering perfectionist. She takes herself not-too-seriously. Which is very important because her field is domestic violence and narcissistic abuse. Part of how she opened my eyes was when she focused on how much domestic abuse has risen during COVID, and especially how it has been underreported. It didn't occur to me that someone who is a victim of abuse cannot call for help if s/he is in lockdown with the abuser.She also works with little ones, who seem to be doing much better than teenagers under the cloud of the virus. We have a wonderful and very moving conversation as we explore I might be a couple drops in the bucket.

Having run into Mike Vacanti more than once at Our Friendship Bench (I promise, only one more link!), I did one of those two kinds of people things we all can fall into. In this case, it's ‘people I could be trapped in a lifeboat with' and ‘people I would throw myself overboard if I were trapped in a lifeboat with.' Mike is in category a.We run amok together as we explore boyhood, school (we both knew our high school principals very well indeed), the value of commitment over command in the workplace, the beauty of possibility, the scars we all carry and that sometimes itch, ‘deep matters of the heart and soul,' and love. OMG, not Love! Much alike, I was, like Mike, known as the rambunctious kid.BTW, Mike is a featured contributor for Humanity@Work. 

I've run across (or into!) Mark O'Brien (mark@obriencg.com) in several online conversations. From the first, I knew we'd be friends, for two reasons. First, Mark and I both love to write and love to explore and discover, even if we ruffle a few feathers—or entire flocks—in the process. Second, after Mark says something, I never need to stop and consider, “I wonder what's really on his mind?”So we got together to talk. No surprise, we followed a jogging meander through writing, childhood, parents, courage, writing, literature, marriage, thinking, expectations, the nature of nature, and life bumps small and mammoth. Oh, did I mention writing? There is nothing like doing a podcast with someone to establish a friendship, btw. Little did I know . . . . Join us and find out how “There is a bee on the bridge” shines a bright light on our capacity for courage and love.

Competitive skier, off to college to play baseball, golfer, professor, experienced in mergers and acquisitions, and now Brian Sommer (briansommercoaching.com) carries a passion for leadership and learning into his coaching work. We both love sports, through Brian is good at them. We both abide in a skeptical place, “separating what happens from what we say happens.” And we both discovered during our journey toward this meeting that teaching is both less and more than we thought.Throughout this conversation, we ask more questions than give each other answers, e.g. “Imagine if all the books throughout history were kept?” Our deep passion and excitement about learning brings us together, and we agree that the genius resides in the person in front of you. 

I see podcasting as the discovery of surprises. I'm not in charge, just a part of. My conversation with Barry Schwartz (bschwar1@swarthmore.edu) is a luge ride, full speed and switching the role of top slider (the one who signals the turn) and the bottom driver (the one who makes the turn) throughout. Here's some of where we went:                                                                        dogged attachment                                                             uncertainty and probability                                                                 the curse of knowledge                                                vaccinations and shopping for groceries                                                  organ donations and social altruism                                               drunk driving, smoking, and MADD                                                                freedom and security                                                                   confidence intervals                                                                            cynicismBarry's book, Why We Work, is a great read. His TED talk, https://www.ted.com/talks/barry_schwartz_the_way_we_think_about_work_is_broken, a luge ride you'll not forget. Grab some water, dress warmly, and join us for The Store Does Not Take Care of Itself.  Thank you, Barry.

We find our common territory much more easily than most may think. John Dunia (shamedoctor.com) is the 46th visitor to record on back2different. I've added layers of understanding and connection to my life since this podcast journey started, its birth parallel to the generation of the virus. I'd like to suggest that we don't need to experience this time as a separation but as an acknowledgment of the absolute nourishment of connection. I have dozens of close friends I have never met ftf because of this venture. We simply drop our shields, open up, and care about each other. I am so very grateful. This is not farewell, btw!John and I charge through healing, self-forgiveness, shame and guilt, scars, arrogance and pride, all in an atmosphere of trust, what my friend and teacher Michael Goldfaden told me means ‘unconditional positive regard.' Maybe that's all we need to move together, to declare Independence Day and leave shame in the dirt.

We pick up a lot of ‘stuff' as we grow up. If you're familiar with George Carlin, you know what ‘stuff' means. Joanna Bennett (joanna@obriencg.com) shares her story, no holds barred, about finding her way through situations and assumptions that stood in the way of what she now knows and loves. She and her children have grown closer during the pandemic, and she lives by a very clear credo: I value peace more than happiness. Join us for a verbal romp.

Laura Gray (lgray@maloneynovotny.com) has no lack of credentials. Corporate, academic, sales and training. And trauma. Her journey toward emotional rejuvenation and spirit included opening up some scabs and scars that were scary and necessary. In this courageous conversation, she tells her story to deliver a deep appreciation of how resilient we can become if we can barter shame for clarity. She helped me understand her journey and my own. Let her help you with that same understanding, that broken crayons still color.

As Andrew Foster led me through his story, he focused on writing. He has taken this advice from one of his professors and holds it close to his heart: “Stop! Write about it!”  We share a love of writing, especially of the most demanding love, poetry. I believe we are all in need of spiritual nutrition, the emotional body-building that comes from community. Especially now, as we are all bound up in viral incarceration, some of us are growing through this imprisonment, some of us less so. Andrew has been in prison for 17 years. Listen in as we explore the path we started with Andrew's insight that the whole world is sitting down.

When I first met Roger Martin (roger@themindsetdifference.com), I realized he was someone who spoke with marked purpose—what he was about to say would be focused, clear, and memorable. I found myself hoping he would be the next person to speak in our group. Roger, who is Co-Founder of The Mindset Difference, working with Sarah Matthew, Founder of The Vibrant Company and Barry Holmes, Founder of Zoom Creates, is working on a new book: If Not This, Then What?  He will be contributing to Humanity at Work as well. More on that in the next podcast.  2022 will see both projects available.In this episode, Roger and I  take a wonderful hike together through the pandemic, organizational culture, quitting smoking, neuroscience and human capacity. You will find his voice and his insight a pleasure and a treasure as we explore what he calls The Great Pause.