Spiritual Life and Leadership

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!What does ministry look like when your church gathers at the very place that's meant to divide? In this episode, Seth Clark invites us into the powerful story of The Border Church, where the simple act of worship confronts separation with the radical unity of God's love, and where he and his congregants—on both sides of the wall—have had to adapt to a reality in which the powers make it harder and harder for them to worship together.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Seth Clark describes the Border Church as a practice of publicly experiencing God's presence and unity at a site of division.The Border Church centers its ministry around sharing holy communion as a visible act of God's love in a divided context.Seth Clark explains how families from both sides have long used Friendship Park to connect despite restrictive border policies.Border Church started as periodic communion services at the border and gradually grew into a more structured worship community.Seth Clark recounts the agreement that allowed Friendship Park to open for limited hours on weekends, enabling regular gatherings.Physical barriers at the border forced participants to adapt, sharing only a pinky touch through the mesh as a sign of peace.Leadership of the Border Church came by community discernment when the founding pastor stepped down, Seth Clark shares.Border Church functions without a traditional building, requiring creative leadership and adaptability in its pastoral approach.The COVID-19 pandemic and persistent border lockdowns have forced the church to continually reinvent how it worships and connects.Seth Clark highlights the shift of pastoral needs toward the Mexico side as waves of migrants and asylum seekers increased.Border Church supports partnerships with local shelters, providing meals and spiritual care for migrants waiting at the border.Markus Watson explores the deep sense of loss, frustration, and adaptation that accompanies changes to how the Border Church operates.Seth Clark emphasizes the importance of faithfulness over visible results, especially when facing circumstances beyond one's control.Leading through loss involves distinguishing between what can and cannot be changed, and supporting people in navigating change and grief.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:The Border Church:FacebookInstagram - @theborderchurchBooks mentioned:Church at the Wall, by Seth ClarkRelated episodes:88. The Border Church, with Seth Clark119. Being Leaders of Grace in a Divided World, with Kirsten Powers120. Forming Leadership Resilience, with Tod BolsingerClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!This conversation reflects on the urgent need for genuine transformation in the church, rather than simply tweaking what isn't working. Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the signs that point to deeper issues—like plateauing membership, aging congregations, and stagnating giving—and why now is the time for a true “hero's journey” of change, not just rearranging the chairs on the Titanic.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Rex Miller in Ep. 254: Digital Disruption and the Future of the Church:"There are some telltale signs that it's time to go on a hero's journey. One telltale sign is we're plateauing in our membership. Or our members are getting older.  Or our giving is plateauing. Now is not the time to try to rearrange the chairs on the Titanic.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Church leaders recognize critical signs—like plateauing membership, aging congregations, and stagnant giving—that indicate the need for deep transformation.Leaders create only superficial change when they settle for “rearranging the chairs on the Titanic” instead of tackling the root issues.Effective leadership requires admitting when you don't know what to do and being willing to learn all over again.Leaders lose key, healthy members when they make ministry primarily about themselves rather than about something greater.Transformation happens when leaders embrace adaptive change, let go of their expertise, and journey into new ways of leading.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Shalom is a biblical concept that goes far beyond our usual understanding of “peace.” It's about healing, fulfillment, and every part of life coming together as God intended. For ministry leaders, this vision of shalom changes everything about how we lead, serve, and even think about the mission of the church.In this episode, Terry A. Smith, author of The Lord Give You Peace, explores what shalom really means, why it's at the heart of God's mission, and how we as ministry leaders can become bringers of Shalom in and beyond our churches.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Markus Watson invites Terry A. Smith to share how the concept of shalom became important in his life and faith.Terry A. Smith explains that encountering Tim Keller's writing helped him see shalom as the way God intended things to be.Shalom means more than just "peace"—it encompasses wholeness, flourishing, harmony, prosperity, and well-being.Terry A. Smith describes shalom as holistic well-being, productive flourishing, and happy fulfillment.Shalom involves every dimension of life: psychological, spiritual, physical, and relational wellness.Flourishing in shalom is not passive but should lead to positive, productive fruit in the world.Fulfillment includes experiencing deep happiness and contentment rooted in hope and connection with God.Markus Watson reflects that God's mission for Creation is to restore shalom on every level—between humans and God, with each other, within ourselves, and with creation.Terry A. Smith affirms that the presence of brokenness and lack of shalom is due to the fall and the "vandalization" of God's intentions.People can still taste and participate in shalom, even while living in a broken world.Terry A. Smith highlights that many biblical promises of shalom are directed at people in exile or less-than-ideal circumstances, encouraging hope and action.The church's calling includes being a model of unity and peace, creating opportunities for shalom in relationships and community.Terry A. Smith describes his church's intentional pursuit of diversity, unity, and partnership with local organizations as active shalom-making.Creating an environment of hospitable leadership fosters a culture where people and their God-given dreams flourish.Leaders who embody shalom can better guide others through change, adversity, and growth by bringing wholeness and well-being into every situation.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Website – terryasmith.comThe Life Christian ChurchBooks mentioned:The Lord Give You Peace, by Terry A. SmithNot the Way It's Supposed to Be, by Cornelius Plantinga, Jr.The Hospitable Leader, by Terry A. SmithRelated episodes:134. How to Help Your City Thrive, with Amy Sherman140. Bathed in Grace, with Matt Tebbe and Ben Sternke157. Seamless Leadership, with Steve GarberClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!This episode explores the critical role awareness plays in avoiding burnout and fostering healthy leadership practices. Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss personal anecdotes and practical strategies to cultivate awareness, so we can better navigate the challenges that come our way. Whether you're leading a team or just trying to lead a more intentional life, this conversation is packed with insights to help you break free from autopilot mode and make mindful adjustments for a more effective and fulfilling leadership journey.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Jonathan Hoover in Ep. 254: Endless Expectations and Emotional Exhaustion:“Awareness is a precursor to adjustment.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Awareness aids leaders in recognizing when they approach burnout.Well-trained leaders naturally navigate crises using second nature skills.Developing awareness prompts leaders to stop, assess shifts, and adjust effectively.Noticing emotions or bodily sensations signals leaders to pause and reflect.Naming issues in a room empowers leaders to identify and implement adjustments.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Is the future of the church something to look forward to, or does it scare you to death.  Thriving into the future will require change, and the idea of changing the way we lead, or the way we do church, or the people we reach out to, can feel overwhelming.  Even if we want to do it, where do we even start?In this episode, Kara Powell, Jake Mulder, and Raymond Chang share insights from their new book, Future Focused Church, where they explore adaptive leadership and offer practical tools to help ministry leaders guide their congregations through meaningful transformation.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Kara Powell asserts that the best days of the church are ahead despite current challenges.Kara Powell credits her optimism for the church's future to her theology and understanding of God's goodness.Church leaders should focus on the three checkpoints: relationally discipling young people, modeling kingdom diversity, and tangibly loving their neighbors.Jake Mulder explains the concept of a journey in church change, emphasizing the importance of checkpoints along the way.Jake Mulder lists the four zones of church change as here, there, who, and how.Jake Mulder states that a majority of change efforts fail due to outdated approaches and skills.Transformation in the church should not be a solo effort and requires a diverse transformation team, as Jake Mulder explains.Raymond Chang highlights how experimenting from the edges with small changes can lead to progress without being too disruptive.Churches often suffer from a lack of follow-through rather than a dramatic flaw when trying to implement change.Raymond Chang highlights the sons of Issachar as an example of understanding the times and discerning God's direction.Maintaining disciplined attention is crucial, as Kara Powell emphasizes, to ensure cultural change efforts do not falter.Jake Mulder shares the importance of a diverse transformation team of five to twelve people representing different perspectives for effective guidance in church change.Jake Mulder notes that the process of church change is not about where leaders want to go, but where God is leading.The journey between a church's current state and its future should begin with gathering the right team of people.Kara Powell shares an example where a church emphasizes youth engagement through consistent, simple actions like attending youth events.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Future-Focused Church websiteBooks mentioned:Future-Focused Church, by Kara Powel, Jake Mulder, and Ray ChangRelated episodes:222. Building a Multi-Inclusive Church, with Efrem Smith and Dan Kreiss242. Life and Leadership in the Fog, with Michaela O'Donnell and Lisa Slayton256. Digital Disruption Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss insights on the importance of developing leaders who are skilled in curious listening and creating a collaborative environment where ideas are shared and valued. The conversation uncovers how shifting from monologue to dialogue can not only empower communities but also lead to more meaningful adaptive leadership in times of change.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Scot McKnight in Ep 250, The Prophetic Challenge of Deconstruction:“The evangelical world does not have a culture of conversation.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders improve their effectiveness by first listening before proclaiming.Sharing leadership with a team fosters better decision-making through collaboration.Engaging in conversations helps leaders adapt to situations without clear solutions.Encouraging conversations empowers groups by promoting shared ownership.Feeling heard validates individuals and supports their faith journey.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!In his newest book, Chuck DeGroat offers a deeply personal account of his journey of being fired from a ministry position and the stress surrounding that experience that ultimately led to a life-changing health crisis. But it was that crisis that showed him the much deeper inner healing he needed.In this episode, Chuck DeGroat discusses not only his experience of deep inner healing, but also the need for inner healing for all of us who are ministry leaders.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Chuck DeGroat highlights his experience with the autonomic nervous system and its role in managing past trauma, indicating how unresolved trauma can manifest in physical and emotional symptoms.Engaging with our bodies helps reveal unaddressed shame and grief, which many individuals, including pastors, tend to bury.Chuck DeGroat shares his story of being fired from a church, leading him to recognize the necessity of inner reflection and healing for effective ministry leadership.Neglecting emotional health often leads to physical symptoms, illustrating the body's way of signaling unresolved emotional turmoil.Chuck DeGroat describes his journey from placing blame externally to focusing on internal work, which allows for more authentic healing.Constant activation of the sympathetic nervous system can have detrimental effects on one's health, indicating the importance of addressing stress and trauma.Chuck DeGroat encourages pastors and leaders to engage in regular practices that foster a calm and centered emotional state, aiding in spiritual insight and leadership.Successful healing involves consistently attending to emotional and physical cues from our bodies, signaling deeper underlying issues.Chuck DeGroat explains practices that help individuals transition from a survival mindset to a state of calm connection, enhancing overall well-being.Regular and intentional understanding of our body's signals is crucial for maintaining emotional health and preventing future burnout.Addiction often serves as an attempted solution to address deeper inner wounds, which requires a more nuanced understanding in the context of spiritual counseling.Chuck DeGroat discusses the value of acknowledging and understanding one's inner child to achieve authenticity and awareness in spiritual leadership.Differentiating between various parts of oneself allows for a clearer understanding of internal struggles and promotes healthier decisions.Effective spiritual and emotional growth requires addressing core issues beyond behavior, thereby promoting sustainable change and authentic leadership.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Chuck DeGroatWestern Theological SeminaryBooks mentioned:Healing What's Within, by Chuck DeGroatWhen Narcissism Comes to Church, by Chuck DeGroatRelated episodes:82. Narcissism and Spiritual Leadership, with Chuck DeGroat206. The Healing Power of Pilgrimage, with Jon Huckins254. Endless Expectations and Emotional Exhaustion, with Jonathan HooverClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger explore Mandy Smith's powerful words on combating darkness and feelings of futility in leadership. Tod reflects on his own struggles with imposter syndrome and insecurity, highlighting the need for honesty and spiritual practices to overcome these challenges.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Mandy Smith in Ep 244, Finding Strength in Desperation:“Every week I have to stand up there and press against this darkness that wants us to be quiet.  And wants to come against us and disrupt our sleep; and disrupt our sense of well-being; and tell us that nothing we do makes any difference.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Spiritual leaders must acknowledge and resist darkness that seeks to undermine their efforts and well-being.Tod Bolsinger shares that addressing insecurities and imposter syndrome builds resilience in ministry.Church leaders should recognize that leadership is about serving and pointing to Jesus, not about personal validation.Adopting a Jewish perspective on the Sabbath, Tod practices trust in God by resting, demonstrating faith in God's control.Addressing self-doubt and learning to trust in divine purpose helps leaders mitigate anxiety and retain their focus on meaningful service.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Matt Colwell, Senior Pastor at Knox Presbyterian Church in Pasadena, California, shares his raw, personal journey of losing his home to the Eaton Fire in Altadena and how he has continued to shepherd a congregation facing the same devastating loss. This conversation unpacks the layers of adaptive leadership in the midst of crisis, the importance of building community before the crisis happens, and the powerful ways we can discover God's presence and provision when life goes off the rails. THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Matt Colwell shares his experience of losing his home in the Los Angeles Eaton Fire and navigating the aftermath.The fire in Altadena caused widespread destruction, with only one house surviving in Matt Colwell's neighborhood.Matt Colwell narrates the sequence of events during the fire evacuation, detailing his family's actions and decisions.Matt Colwell explains the mixed emotions of shock and disbelief, and how it unfolded as he processed the loss.The unexpected loss of a home can be overwhelming as individuals process the emotional and logistical aspects.Matt Colwell expresses the challenges of balancing personal recovery with pastoral responsibilities.As a pastor, losing a home can provide unique empathy and understanding when caring for others experiencing loss.The power of community and compassion plays a significant role in Matt Colwell's healing process after the fire.Preaching shortly after a personal crisis can be both healing and hopeful, as experienced by Matt Colwell.Leading adaptively requires recognizing and focusing on core values while responding to rapid changes.Matt Colwell emphasizes the ongoing challenge and necessity of long-term rebuilding and recovery efforts.The impact of climate change on the frequency and severity of natural disasters is a critical issue to address.Adaptive leadership in crisis involves leveraging support networks, personal resilience, and spiritual practices to navigate and recover from challenges.Establishing and maintaining community connections proves invaluable when dealing with large-scale crises.Matt Colwell discusses the collaboration with his neighborhood to support collective recovery and rebuilding efforts.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Knox Presbyterian ChurchPresbyterian Disaster AssistanceCreation Justice MinistriesOn Mission NetworkRelated episodes:220. Leading Through Tragedy, Adversity, and Crisis, with Gayle Beebe242. Life and Leadership in the Fog, with Michaela O'Donnell and Lisa Slayton244. Finding Strength in Desperation, with Mandy SmithClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore how leadership often feels like moving through a dense fog where vision is limited. Tod shares his thoughts on the importance of valuing enduring principles over having a clear vision in times of rapid change. He emphasizes that being anchored in unchangeable values and the mission of our faith can guide us through uncertain landscapes. The conversation also unpacks the role of Jesus and the Spirit in adaptive leadership, highlighting the need to align our actions with what Jesus is doing in the world.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from David Quel in Ep 242, Life and Leadership in the Fog:"That's what it means to belong to Jesus, that even in the fog, he can be trusted."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders face fog by walking in faith, not just relying on vision.Leadership requires clarity on unchanging values amidst a rapidly changing world.Clear, essential values guide leaders when vision is uncertain.Adaptive leadership involves aligning with Jesus' ongoing work in the world.Trusting Jesus in the fog fortifies leaders' commitment and direction.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!True ministry leadership isn't about power; it's about love in action. It's about stepping into the self-giving, co-suffering way of Jesus, even when it feels counterintuitive. This kind of leadership doesn't seek control but embraces humility, sacrifice, and deep connection with those we serve.In this episode, Marc Schelske, pastor of Bridge City Community Church and author of Walking Otherward, unpacks how embracing this kind of love reshapes our leadership, strengthens our churches, and helps us navigate the challenges of ministry with grace and wisdom.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Marc Schelske introduces the concept of other-centered, co-suffering love as a key aspect of following Jesus.The phrase "other-centered, co-suffering love" encompasses love that is conscious of others and willing to bear their burdens.Marc Schelske emphasizes the significance of Philippians 2 and Jesus' journey to Jerusalem as examples of this love.Jesus' journey to Jerusalem symbolizes a path that is not self-centered but oriented towards others.Self-centered, ego-defending ambition contrasts sharply with the way Jesus modeled leadership.Marc Schelske reflects on his own leadership transition, focusing on how he learned to disconnect identity from numerical success.Leadership driven by other-centered, co-suffering love requires holding space for others to process change at their own pace.Marc Schelske explains the importance of allowing time in decision-making processes to foster consensual and loving leadership.The fear of death and discomfort often drives the desire for control and power within leadership.Marc Schelske discusses creating communities where multiple perspectives can coexist without division.Churches must embrace a posture of vulnerability and humility in their leadership practices.Marc Schelske highlights that love acts by consent, meaning decisions should include space for honest dialogue and dissent.Co-suffering love challenges traditional notions of leadership by prioritizing presence over power.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Marc Schelske:Website - https://marcalanschelske.com/Bridge City Community ChurchBooks mentioned:Walking Otherward, by Marc SchelskeFalling Upward, by Richard RohrRelated episodes:206. The Healing Power of Pilgrimmage, with Jon Huckins236. Supporting Families with Autism in Your Church, with David Quel240. Leading with Wisdom from Above, with Uli ChiClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss the importance of acknowledging when leaders feel overwhelmed and how critical it is to slow down and reflect rather than react impulsively. Through engaging metaphors and practical advice, they share strategies for adaptive leadership, highlighting practices such as pausing, getting perspective, and silent prayer to navigate chaos and uncertainty effectively.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from David Quel in Ep 242, Life and Leadership in the Fog:"The world is moving fast. Change is speeding up and human brains haven't necessarily changed in order to be able to cope with all that's happening."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders need to acknowledge feeling overwhelmed when confronting rapid change.Practicing adaptive leadership requires slowing down and reflecting rather than reacting impulsively.Effective leaders train themselves to pause and assess before taking action during crises.Pausing to pray or gain perspective can help leaders manage chaotic situations more effectively.Leaders should ask if immediate decisions are necessary to avoid defaulting to outdated practices.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!AI, social media, and other technologies are transforming community, worship, and leadership. To stay effective, ministry leaders must understand these shifts—but also learn from the past. How do today's technologies compare to those of previous eras? This perspective can help us navigate the future.In this episode, I'm joined by Rex Miller, author of The Millennium Matrix. A futurist and expert in leading through change, Rex will share insights on how cultural and technological shifts impact ministry and how we can adapt.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Rex Miller explores the impact of communication changes on Christianity over the centuries.The Millennium Matrix analyzes shifts in communication and their effects on church culture.Rex Miller describes the transformation from an oral culture to print culture through technological advancements like the Gutenberg printing press.The broadcast era introduced personality-driven leadership and large-scale praise and worship experiences in churches.Rex Miller explains the transition from analog to digital technology and its wider implications.Digital culture fosters interactive, networked communication that reshapes organizational and cultural dynamics.In the social mobile era, personalized and real-time interactions dominate communication patterns.Rex Miller predicts that AI will enhance personalization and autonomy in community formation.The shift from community-centric oral culture to individualistic broadcast culture reflects changes in authority structures.Markus Watson delves into how shifting cultural frameworks affect pastoral leadership and church practices.Rex Miller sees potential in decentralized, grassroots approaches to modern church gatherings.The opportunities for direct community involvement and personalized content create new forms of ministry.Rex Miller highlights how technological changes continuously reshape leadership and organizational strategies.Church leaders must transition from a certainty mindset to one of curiosity to adapt effectively to cultural changes.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Rex Miller:Rexmiller.comLinked InMind ShiftGenius SparkBooks mentioned:The Millenium Matrix, by Rex MillerNeuromancer, by William GibsonMovies mentioned:Jesus RevolutionPleasantvilleRelated episodes:118. Forecasting and Innovation, with Tom Sine and Dwight Friesen147. Is Innovation Inherently Good? with Andrew Root155: Leadership and Looking to the Future, with Tom SineClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Based on their experiences as pastors, Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the delicate balance between seeking consensus through voting and the necessity of leading with focus and clarity. They delve into the unique challenges and responsibilities that come with adaptive leadership, emphasizing the importance of mission-driven decisions.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Uli Chi in Ep. 240. Leading with Wisdom from Above, with Uli Chi:“There are times when leaders lead by providing focus and clarity, rather than simply taking a vote on everything.”THIS EPISODES HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders guide by offering focus and clarity, not just by voting on every decision.Decisive leadership is necessary in complex situations.Effective pastors highlight the mission and encourage their boards to make decisions accordingly.True leadership sometimes requires addressing difficult truths instead of seeking unanimous consensus.Providing focus and clarity often involves asking the right questions to guide the team's decision-making process.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Burnout. An all too familiar experience for most of us.  It's more than just feeling tired or overworked. It's that crushing sense of futility when your passion for ministry runs out, and it leaves you wondering if you can even continue the work you were once so excited about.Jonathan Hoover, the author of Stress Fracture, Your Ultimate Guide to Beating Burnout, shares valuable insights from his experience and research, including practical strategies for managing stress, the importance of self-care, and maintaining emotional and spiritual health in leadership. THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Jonathan Hoover shares the significant stress his father faced while pastoring their church.Jonathan Hoover explains how his father experienced severe emotional and physical symptoms of burnout.Markus Watson asks about the role of spirituality in addressing burnout.Jonathan Hoover highlights how the biblical story of Elijah offers insights into addressing burnout through rest and care.The world tempts people to believe they are infinite, leading to stress and burnout.Jonathan Hoover talks about 'super rats' and the dangers of endless adaptation to stress.Creating margin in life by setting limits can help prevent burnout.Monitoring multiple aspects of life, such as physical and emotional health, can help manage burnout.Jonathan Hoover introduces the concept of emotional exhaustion and how it impacts emotional regulation.Emotional intelligence decreases as emotional exhaustion increases.Burnout leads to a loss of passion and a fatalistic outlook on success.Minimizing distractions and increasing self-awareness are crucial in preventing burnout.To prevent burnout, people need to realize their own limits and adjust their workloads.Jonathan Hoover explains that emotional awareness is necessary for making lifestyle adjustments.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Jonathan Hoover:Website – drjonathanhoover.comChurch website - Newspring.orgBooks mentioned:Stress Fracture, by Jonathan HooverLeadership on the Line, by Ronald Heifetz and Marty LinskyRelated episodes:136. Healthy Attachment and Spiritual Leadership, with Todd Hall175. From Burnout to Resilience, with Jason Young179. The Neuroscience of Spiritual Formation, with Jim WilderClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson explore the essential question: "What thirsts of my soul am I bringing to my congregation?" They discuss the importance of leaders acknowledging their own needs and the dangers of seeking fulfillment from their congregations instead of God. Learn how aligning personal needs with God's guidance can help leaders bring true abundance to their communities.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Alan Fadling in Ep 238, Lead with Less Anxiety:"What thirsts of my soul am I bringing to my congregation in hopes they'll meet me there rather than learning to take the thirsts of my soul to God so that God could meet me in those places? And then I could bring abundance to the community of people entrusted to me.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders must acknowledge their needs to avoid seeking affirmation from their congregations improperly.Effective leaders should bring their soul's needs to God rather than their congregations.Leaders face the temptation of people-pleasing, which can derail their adherence to God's mission.Being transparent about personal needs helps leaders avoid subconscious behaviors that could hinder mission-focused leadership.Fulfilling personal needs through appropriate relationships prevents dependence on congregational approval.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!This episode tackles the topic of being "othered" by those in church leadership, an important conversation for anyone in ministry leadership who wants to understand how to create an environment of embrace, of love, of belonging—and of being a healthy team.Jenai Auman, the author of Othered, discusses her personal experiences of being othered by church leaders, the impact it had on her, and how leaders can cultivate communities marked by shalom and hesed.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Jenai Auman shares her struggles with toxic issues and resistance at a church where she was on staff.Advocacy for personal boundaries led to Jenai being labeled as the problem and asked to leave the church.Individuals often remain in unhealthy environments due to a shallow understanding of love and belonging, influenced by past trauma.Jenai Auman identifies with domestic violence survivors in her determination to fix the system from within.Through her painful experience, Jenai Auman gained transformative wisdom and spiritual growth.Emphasizing the importance of healing, Jenai Auman aims to avoid bitterness and repeating the harm done to her.The hesed of God demonstrates loving kindness and compassion, aiming for wholeness in a fractured world.The zero-sum game misconception causes competition for comfort and peace, but God's shalom advocates for abundance.By adopting an open-handed posture towards others, we mirror God's nature, fostering inclusivity and belonging.Jenai Auman advises those feeling othered to recognize their inherent belovedness without seeking external validation.Church leaders should focus on self-reflection and compassion, avoiding defensive othering.Jenai Auman discusses the concept of shalom as a state of peace involving love, wisdom, and understanding personal stories.Naming experiences of othering is crucial for healing, enabling reconciliation and peace.Jenai Auman reflects on how her experiences with othering have shaped her understanding of mutuality and divine love.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Jenai Auman:WebsiteSubstackEmailBooks mentioned:Othered, by Jenai AumanRelated episodes:82: Narcissism and Spiritual Leadership, with Chuck DeGroat92. Against a Culture of Abuse, with Scot McKnight and Laura Barringer163. You Can't Be Found if You're Never Lost, with Steve CarterClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson reflect on how fear influences our congregations and the importance of addressing it directly. They discuss the role of technical expertise in building trust and how leaders can compassionately accompany people through their fears, especially in times of change and perceived loss. Tod shares strategies for normalizing fear, creating communities of empathy, and tackling resistance by engaging with those who are most fearful.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from David Quel in Ep 236, Supporting Families with Autism in Your Church:“People have a tendency to be fearful of what they don't understand and what they don't know.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Tod Bolsinger emphasizes the importance of accompanying people through their fears in leadership.Leaders need to acknowledge and normalize fear to help people navigate their anxieties.Churches should invite experts to build technical competence and trust.Addressing resistance directly helps calm fears and fosters gradual progress.Creating a community of empathy ensures that no one faces loss or fear alone.Click HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!In this episode, we're taking a deep-dive into the complex and, at times, nerve-wracking experience of deconstruction. Leaders often worry about its impact on their roles, their authority, and on the harmony or unity of their church communities. But what if deconstruction is less about tearing down faith and more about stripping away what's non-essential, centering instead on Jesus?In this epidsode, Scot McKnight, author of Invisible Jesus, sheds light on how deconstruction can be a path to a more Christ-focused faith, emphasizing the importance of creating supportive spaces for exploring and asking questions. This conversation is crucial for ministry leaders navigating their own or their congregants' journeys of faith reformation.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Markus Watson addresses the nervousness leaders feel about deconstruction and its potential impacts on their beliefs.Scot McKnight highlights that leaders fear deconstruction because it threatens their job security, authority, and influence.People undergoing deconstruction can disrupt church communities, creating anxiety about church teachings.Markus Watson emphasizes the need for leaders to find safe spaces outside their church community for discussing deconstruction.Scot McKnight suggests that churches should support and provide safe exploration spaces instead of trying to control questioning individuals.Pastors face pressure to have all the answers, and questioning can trigger their insecurities about their role and authority.Markus Watson discusses how churches need to shift their culture to become open to questioning and changes.Scot McKnight reflects on his book "Invisible Jesus," addressing how deconstruction is not about abandoning faith but refocusing on Christ by removing non-essential elements.A study cited by Scot McKnight shows that 86% of people who undergo deconstruction remain in the church, although they may change congregations.Deconstruction resembles a personal Protestant Reformation where individuals reassess and personalize their faith journey.Scot McKnight draws parallels between deconstruction and historical movements aimed at shedding unnecessary church practices or beliefs, focusing on continual reform.Scot McKnight states that Jesus acted as a deconstructor, challenging the law within Judaism similar to the prophets.The church's role should involve listening to deconstructors rather than fearing or dismissing them, promoting an adaptive leadership approach.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Scot McKnight:SubstackBooks mentioned:Invisible Jesus, by Scot McKnight and Tommy PhillipsA Church Called Tov, by Scot McKnight and Laura BarringerRevelation for the Rest of Us, by Scot McKnight and Cody MatchettRelated episodes:171. Leading Your Ministry as a Dissident Disciple, with Scot McKnight98. Deconstruction and Reconstruction, with A.J. Swoboda92. Against a Culture of Abuse, with Scot McKnight and Laura BarringerClick HERE to get my FREE online course, BECOMING LEADERS OF SHALOM.

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson engage in a meaningful conversation about the delicate balance of honoring the "inherited church" while experimenting on the edges to drive adaptive change. Drawing from a quote by Shannon Kiser, who is deeply involved in adaptive leadership and fresh expressions of church, Tod explains how churches can innovate without discarding valuable traditions.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Shannon Kiser in Ep 177, Exploring New Forms of Church:“We don't have to give up what we love and cherish about the inherited church to also experiment on the edges.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Church leaders honor the inherited church by experimenting on the edges without abandoning tradition.Adaptive leadership brings life to faith communities by evolving core practices to fit changing environments.Teams conduct modest experiments on the fringes to introduce effective innovations into the church.Effective change requires balancing respect for the past with openness to new approaches.Congregations thrive by integrating new discoveries that cater to both historical and present needs.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!In this special Christmas Eve episode of Spiritual Life and Leadership, Markus Watson takes a moment to share some heartfelt encouragement for those feeling the weight of ministry's demands. Reflecting on both personal and professional burdens, Markus reminds us of the importance of leaning on Jesus to find true rest and relief. By exploring the story of the shepherds, magi, and even King Herod, Markus illustrates how Jesus invites each of us to let go of our exhaustion and allow Him to help carry our burdens.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Pastors face a lot of pressure in preparing sermons, providing pastoral care, leading meetings, and handling administrative duties.The constant demand for excellence in ministry, even during times of societal change, amplifies stress and feelings of responsibility.Markus Watson emphasizes the added strain of personal burdens, describing his own experience caring for aging parents.Life's cumulative burdens, both personal and professional, contribute to a persistent feeling of exhaustion.Despite exhaustion, love and care for congregants and loved ones remain a priority.The host draws an analogy between the exhaustion of ministry workers and the biblical figures present at Jesus' birth.Shepherds, magi, and the people of Israel felt weary from their own burdens.Markus Watson points out that King Herod also experienced weariness, though he rejected the invitation of Jesus' birth.Jesus' words in Matthew 11 are an invitation for rest and relief.Markus Watson concludes by encouraging listeners to allow Jesus to help carry their personal and ministry burdens, reassuring them that they are not alone.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Related episodes:117. Leading with Courage and Integrity in Times of Discontinuous Change206. The Healing Power of Pilgrimage, with Jon Huckins244. Finding Strength in Desperation, with Mandy SmithDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger discuss the concept of the kingdom of God as a way of life, rather than a distant place. Inspired by a powerful quote from Yolanda Solomon, they discuss the profound implications this understanding has for ministry leadership and personal discipleship. Discover how embracing God's will in the present moment can transform your leadership and community, and what it means to live out the reality of God's reign right here, right now.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Yolanda Solomon in Ep 232, Learning from Jesus:"The kingdom that Jesus proclaims and the kingdom that Jesus embodies is not a place. It's a way of life."Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!What if prayer wasn't just a box to check off your to-do list, but a lifeline deeply integrated into every moment of your life and your leadership? Imagine navigating every challenge, every conflict, and every transition with an ongoing sense that God is with you.Jeff Hoffmeyer is Vice President for Advancement and Resident Theologian for the Denver Institute for Faith and Work, and a teacher in the Doctor of Ministry program at Fuller Theological Seminary. In this episode, Jeff shares his insights on the significance of prayer in leadership, how to keep prayer practices fresh and meaningful, and how to integrate the Bible into your prayer life, turning it into a rich resource for your ministry.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Markus Watson introduces the concept of "praying without ceasing," questioning its feasibility and practical application.Jeff Hoffmeyer suggests that "praying without ceasing" involves including God in every moment of daily life.Prayer can be incorporated into transitions between tasks, making it a continuous practice.Markus Watson compares prayer to a comfortable silence in relationships, emphasizing a connection without constant conversation.Jeff Hoffmeyer highlights that prayer involves more than words, incorporating awareness and presence with God.The Bible serves as a resource for ministry and prayer, guiding conversations with God and integrating scripture into prayers.Markus Watson shares his experience with Lectio Divina, finding it more meaningful than quick Bible readings.Jeff Hoffmeyer underscores the importance of prayer for leadership, even if it doesn't feel mastered.Maintaining a connection with God through prayer helps leaders ground their identity in Christ amid challenges.Jeff Hoffmeyer discusses the role of attention in leadership, advocating for understanding personal anxiety and others' motivations.Jeff Hoffmeyer emphasizes the need to attend to the world's needs, whether as church leaders, business leaders, or parents.Markus Watson appreciates the contemplative nature of Hoffmeyer's podcast, noting its thoughtful, longer conversations.Jeff Hoffmeyer describes prayer as a "resource," helping leaders connect with the divine and make their work meaningful.Prayer should be an integral part of everyday life, helping individuals notice the divine in daily routines.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Teach Us to Pray PodcastDenver Institute for Faith and WorkFuller Theological Seminary Doctor of MinistryDe Pree Center for LeadershipChurch Leadership InstituteRelated Episodes:44. Spiritual Formation and Lectio Divina, with Eric Nevins112. The Beatitudes and Spiritual Leadership, with Mark Scandrette216. Overcoming ‘Puny' Spirituality, with Warren Brown and Brad StrawnDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger discuss the essential role of pastors and spiritual leaders in "standing in the gap," inspired by a profound quote from Amy Peeler. They explore how leaders can support their communities by being present in times of crisis, offering intercessory prayer, and providing emotional and spiritual accompaniment. Through personal stories and leadership insights, they highlight the importance of not letting others face challenges alone and the powerful impact of embodying a pastoral presence during tough decisions and anxious moments.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Amy Peeler in Ep 224, Leadership Through the Lens of Hebrews:"As a priest, as a pastor, we are called to stand in the gap for people. Right? That could be as simple as, we have the time and the resources to study God's word during the week so that, when the congregation comes in, we can share the fruit of that time that we've invested."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Ministry leaders stand in the gap for their congregations, embodying both authority and empathy.Pastors enrich their congregations by dedicating time to study God's word, offering spiritual insights in return.Effective leaders accompany their team through anxious and challenging times, providing support and reassurance.Spiritual leadership involves being present with people, especially in moments of crisis and decision-making.Leaders foster a sense of community by ensuring no one feels alone in their burdens and responsibilities.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Is leadership about enduring endless challenges without ever, y'know, faltering? Or is it about recognizing when to slow down, step back, acknowledge our weaknesses and reconnect with the God who calls us?In this episode, Mandy Smith, author of Confessions of an Amateur Saint, talks about developing our capacity when ministry gets hard, the essential role of rest, and how we can find strength even in times of desperation.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Mandy Smith underscores the necessity of recognizing burnout early and taking intentional breaks for spiritual reflection.Mandy Smith reveals her practice of observing a Monday Sabbath, emphasizing the importance of uninterrupted rest in remembering spiritual purposes.Challenges in ministry can expand one's capacities if approached with discernment.Mandy Smith emphasizes the importance of identifying the "true self" versus the "false self" in leadership roles.The conversation touches on navigating unknowns in ministry, where traditional methods may not be effective anymore.Mandy Smith discusses her routine of daily prayer for guidance, especially during challenging times in ministry.Prayer serves as a crucial aspect of leadership, connecting leaders to God's guidance and renewal.Markus Watson refers to the insights from Mandy's book, The Vulnerable Pastor, underscoring the value of vulnerability in leadership.Mandy Smith talks about the urgency felt due to declining church attendance, stressing a deeper reliance on prayer.Personal and communal desperation in the church can lead to spiritual growth and greater reliance on God.Mandy Smith explores the concept of "confession" as turning towards God, involving acknowledgment of thoughts and reaffirmation of faith.Shifting from secular professionalism to Christian leadership reliance on God, Mandy Smith critiques the application of secular standards within church contexts.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Mandy Smith:www.thewayistheway.orgInstagram - @mandysmithhopesThe Eugene Peterson Center for Christian ImaginationBooks mentioned:Confessions of an Amateur Saint, by Mandy SmithThe Vulnerable Pastor, by Mandy SmithRelated episodes:36. The Vulnerable Pastor, with Mandy Smith107. Childlike Faith, Adultlike Leadership, with Mandy Smith194. Saudade, Leadership, and Nurturing the Inner Life, with Jeff CrosbyDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger engage in an enlightening conversation exploring a profound quote by Efrem Smith on the evolving narrative of church communities. They discuss the critical role of the emerging generation in not just being part of the church's story, but actively shaping its future. The episode explores the importance of diverse perspectives, adaptive leadership, and the humility required to foster a truly inclusive and vibrant faith community.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Efrem Smith in Ep 222, Building a Multi-Inlusive Church:“As the story of your church unfolds, is it obvious that the emerging generation is not only part of the story, but part of shaping the story that will be told?”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Ministry leaders engage future generations by including their voices at the decision-making table.Tod Bolsinger emphasizes the necessity for leaders to adopt a humble approach and be open to learning.Markus Watson stresses the importance of diverse perspectives for a fuller understanding of God's calling.Churches increase vitality by valuing spiritual maturity over age when selecting leaders.Tod Bolsinger encourages leaders to focus on creating processes that foster deeper understanding and growth.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!We talk a lot about leading through uncertainty on this podcast.  But in this episode, the emphasis will be on navigating uncertainty in our own lives.  In this conversation, Michaela O'Donnell and Lisa Slayton, co-authors of Life in Flux, discuss the importance of "uncommon postures" when navigating the fog in life, building personal adaptive capacity, and the need to pause and listen in the midst of uncertainty.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Lisa Slayton challenges default behaviors and encourages developing uncommon postures to better support oneself.Michaela O'Donnell emphasizes the need to embrace change rather than avoid it, recognizing that old methods won't work for future challenges.Slayton identifies personal awakening catalysts as recognizing potential possibilities or facing pain and disruptions.Adaptive work involves recognizing that past methods won't suffice for future challenges, according to Michaela O'Donnell.The metaphor of a ship in the fog illustrates the need for intentional stillness in uncertain times.Slayton describes how cutting the engine in a fog-bound boat is a counterintuitive but necessary action to regain direction.Markus Watson reflects on personal experiences with uncertainty, realizing challenges can be embraced even when they are "unfigureoutable."Slayton shares an experience with a church team and stresses the importance of exploration and adaptation.Navigating ambiguity involves recognizing multiple paths forward, not just one clear solution, notes Michaela O'Donnell.Leadership should shift from problem-solving to curiosity, embracing uncertainty and adaptive learning.Markus Watson discusses the clarity of identity in understanding personal strengths and aligning roles accordingly.The Enneagram aids in understanding personal and leadership styles amidst change, recognizing strengths and limits.Lisa Slayton emphasizes the challenges pastors face due to excessive expectations and the need for managing these effectively.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Church Leadership InstituteDe Pree Center for LeadershipTamim PartnersLifeinFlux.coFlourish San DiegoBooks mentioned:Life in Flux, by Michaela O'Donnell and Lisa SlaytonRelated Episodes:Episode 114: Meaningful Work, with Michaela O'DonnellEpisode 48: Integrity and Coherence in Leadership, with Lisa SlaytonDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson chats with Tod Bolsinger about a profound quote from Gayle Beebe, President of Westmont College. They explore the significance of staying emotionally present with your organization, its people, and its mission, especially during crises. The conversation highlights the balance between gaining perspective ('balcony' view) and staying connected (‘dance floor' engagement), essential for fostering trust and effective leadership. Perfect for those navigating the complexities of ministry leadership.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Gayle Beebe in Ep 220, Leading Through Tragedy, Adversity, and Crisis:"You have to stay emotionally present to the organization, to the people in the organization, to the mission of the organization so that you can make adjustments that actually allow you to prevail."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Ministry leaders must stay emotionally present to effectively lead organizations through crises.Gayle Beebe emphasizes the importance of connecting with the mission and people of the organization.Leaders need to balance the perspectives of the balcony (overall strategy) and the dance floor (emotional connection).Building trust through emotional attunement accelerates change within an organization.Leaders must acknowledge and manage their own emotions to make mission-focused decisions.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!How do we cultivate an environment where transparency and open communication becomes the norm rather than the exception?In this episode, Uli Chi, author of The Wise Leader, brings a wealth of experience in business and church leadership to discuss how we can foster open communication, why humility in leadership is so critical, and the importance of pursuing a "wisdom from above" in our leadership.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Wisdom from above is God's wisdom, a comprehensive approach to life that is beyond just spiritual or intellectual understanding.Uli Chi emphasizes the importance of creating a culture where honesty is welcomed, allowing team members to express their true thoughts to leadership.Uli shares a personal experience where he sought external consultants to understand issues within his company, highlighting the difficulty in getting people to speak candidly.Leaders must create normalized spaces for open and honest conversations.Wisdom requires a communal approach; it is developed through relationships and shared experiences rather than in isolation.Uli Chi discusses his 50-year affiliation with his community, emphasizing the value of long-term relationships.Markus Watson expresses admiration for Uli Chi's book, "The Wise Leader," and encourages reading it for insights on becoming a wise leader.Uli Chi underscores humility as fundamental to wise leadership, viewing leadership as a role of service, not dominance.Humility involves using power for the benefit of others, reflecting a servant mindset preached by Jesus.Leaders must recognize human finiteness and fallibility, accepting that they don't know everything and can be wrong.Directive leadership involves knowing when to give directions after gathering input, which is often essential in pastoral roles.Uli Chi criticizes "heroic leadership" that elevates leaders to a godlike status, as it can stifle open communication and genuine feedback.Effective leaders create safe spaces for diverse voices, reflecting the model of shared wisdom.Uli Chi values contrarian voices and finds it beneficial to have people, like his wife, who challenge his ideas, enhancing decision-making and leadership effectiveness.Uli Chi concludes that understanding and knowing something truly requires loving it, aligning with the concept of the epistemology of love.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Uli Chi:De Pree Center for LeadershipBooks mentioned:The Wise Leader, by Uli ChiRelated episodes:46. Inviting the Real, with Esther Lightcap Meek58. Communion with Reality, with Esther Lightcap MeekDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss the immense pressures faced by pastors today, as articulated by Tim Alberta. Tim highlighted how congregants increasingly expect pastors to function beyond their traditional roles, turning them into part-time pundits and cultural commentators on a myriad of contentious issues ranging from masking and vaccines to abortion and trans rights. Markus and Tod examine the challenges this poses, especially during heightened political seasons, and explore strategies for pastors to manage these pressures healthily, emphasizing the importance of honesty, mission focus, and relational support.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Tim Alberta in Ep 234, Political Power and American Evangelicalism:"What I kept coming back to was this immense pressure on pastors to be more than a pastor. In other words, their congregants in so many cases are looking to them in this moment saying, 'Okay. So, what about masking? What about the vaccine?  What about the trans issue?  What about abortion? What about, I mean, about everything.'...  They start to view their pastor as sort of a part-time pastor, but also a kind of part-time pundit, a part-time cultural commentator, part-time prognosticator of world events."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Pastors face immense pressure to address a wide range of social and political issues.Congregants often expect pastors to act as experts beyond their theological training.Effective leadership includes honestly admitting when answers are unclear.Addressing political tensions in congregations requires a commitment to the mission of following Jesus.Building strong relationships and seeking support helps pastors navigate crises and maintain integrity.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Is it possible to lead a congregation without being consumed by anxiety and stress? How can we as ministry leaders manage the pressures and expectations we carry while maintaining a sense of peace and lightness?In this episode, Alan Fadling, author of A Non-Anxious Life, unpacks how ministry leaders can navigate anxiety by creating a supportive network of friends and mentors, understanding God's joyful nature, and how these realities can transform our personal life and pastoral leadership.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Alan Fadling advises not bringing personal anxiety into a congregation but sharing it with friends, mentors, therapists, and spiritual directors.  Alan Fadling highlights that his experience with managing anxiety has been supported by people outside his immediate church community.  Referencing Lewis Smedes' Shame and Grace, Markus Watson illustrates how acceptance from others can help people feel less anxious and more acceptable.  Discussing his book about anxiety with a church small group, Alan Fadling emphasizes the value of having outside perspectives to reassure one's concerns.  Understanding God's joyful nature can lead to personal transformation and fuller acceptance of grace.  Markus Watson relates a story about providing comfort rather than judgment, illustrating how fear and anxiety are addressed in a supportive manner.  Categorizing anxiety as a sin is unhelpful, Fadling emphasizes, especially from a pastoral perspective.  Referencing Eugene Peterson's interpretation from Philippians 4, Alan Fadling focuses on replacing anxiety with peace through prayer.  We should recognize God's presence in anxious moments through prayer and reflection rather than avoid anxiety.  Inspired by Dallas Willard, Fadling shares a personal practice of using scripture to find peace amidst anxiety.  Psalms of Lament can help engage with and express anxiety while relying on God's support.  Journaling with honesty, as practiced by Alan Fadling, serves as a personal dialogue with God and reinforces that God cares and one is not alone.  Fadling's early ministry concerns included whether congregants liked him, stemming from personal insecurity.  Discussing a "recognition deficit," Alan Fadling notes the mistake of seeking validation from congregations instead of from God.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Alan Fadling:Unhurriedliving.comUnhurried Living PodcastBooks mentioned:A Non-Anxious Life, by Alan FadlingThe Wounded Healer, by Henri NouwenShame and Grace, by Lewis SmedesEmotionally Healthy Spirituality, by Lewis SmedesRelated Episodes:The Healing Power of Pilgrimage, with Jon HuckinsSaudade, Leadership, and Nurturing the Inner Life, with Jeff CrosbyDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger discuss the importance of framing for church leaders, particularly in the context of political polarization. Drawing on a quote from Andrew Hanauer, they explore how providing a Biblical framework to congregants can shape their understanding of the world and mitigate the influence of external, often divisive, narratives. Through practical advice and insightful examples, they illustrate how asking the right questions can lead to transformative perspectives grounded in faith.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Andrew Hanauer in Ep 226, Tackling Toxic Polarization in Your Church:"If you don't help your congregants have a framework for understanding the world around them, they will get that framework from somewhere else."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Ministry leaders can frame questions to help congregants see the world through the eyes of Jesus.Leaders should encourage their congregants to develop a biblical framework for understanding the world.Leaders should prompt curiosity through questions instead of giving lectures.Leaders can use personal stories to help congregants empathize and rethink their preconceived notions.Congregants will find alternative, potentially harmful frameworks if leaders do not provide a biblical one.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!How can our churches reach out to families with autistic members in such a way that the Gospel is good news for them?  And how might we need to adapt the way we do church in order to be good news for those with autism in their families?Dr. David Quel, adjunct professor at Wesley Theological Seminary--and father to three autistic sons--reveals strategies for creating a welcoming environment in our churches for families with autistic members, how to adapt our ministries to meet their needs, and the emotional and spiritual journey of parenting autistic children.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:David Quel shares how he and his wife discovered that not just one, but all three of his sons were autistic.It was difficult for David Quel and his wife to find the kind of family and church support they needed as a family with three non-high-functioning autistic children.David Quel underscores the essential need for emotional, spiritual, mental, and compassionate awareness of autism in church ministry.David Quel shares a story about his church setting up a sensory room designed specifically for children with autism.This sensory room included items like big fluffy pillows, beanbags, and sensory toys to ensure children's safety.David Quel discusses challenges and solutions in creating worship services tailored for children with autism.Traditional formats like responsive readings and long sermons are challenging for children with autism.David Quel highlights the need for music that is more upbeat to engage children with autism compared to traditional hymns.Efforts by David's church to create separate worship services showed significant commitment but also revealed the struggle to let go of traditional practices.David Quel recommends the book Autism and Your Church by Barbara J. Newman for further guidance.Interviewing families to understand their specific needs and triggers is crucial to contextual ministry.Identifying willing volunteers with relevant experience or a willingness to learn can make a significant difference when adapting your church ministry to families with autism.David Quel emphasizes seeing individuals with autism as God's creations, deserving of love and support.Steps churches can take to support families with autism:Set up sensory roomsTailor specialized worship servicesInterview and understand families with autismIdentify and train volunteersPromote inclusivityRELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:BeADisciple.comAutism and the Church Part 1Autism and the Church Part 2Wesley Theological SeminaryBooks mentioned:Autism and Your Church, by Barbara J. NewmanRelated Episodes:Tackling Adaptive Challenges in Your Church, with Angie WardExploring New Forms of Church, with Shannon KiserDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger explore the concept of power within the framework of discipleship and adaptive leadership, inspired by a quote from Michael Rhodes. They discuss how power, when used responsibly, can prevent harm and support the vulnerable, such as orphans, immigrants, and widows. The conversation delves into the transformative potential of Jesus' use of power, emphasizing that true leadership requires the release and sharing of power to foster justice and love. They conclude with reflections on the societal challenges of redefining power in ways that uplift and protect the most vulnerable in the community.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Michael Rhodes in Ep 200, The Justice Feast:“How does our discipleship help us become people who faithfully exercise power in community, particularly on behalf of the orphan, the immigrant, and the widow?”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Tod Bolsinger explores the concept of power and its importance in preventing evil and harm.Discipleship involves using power to protect the most vulnerable, such as orphans, immigrants, and widows.Adaptive leadership emphasizes transformation and inclusivity, drawing from many voices within a community.Jesus demonstrates ultimate power by sacrificing himself for others, illustrating love and justice in the kingdom of God.Effective leadership requires adapting and redefining traditional views of power and authority.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Here in the U.S. the impact of the election and the campaigns of Donald Trump and Kamala Harris are inescapable.In this episode, Tim Alberta, author of The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory: American Evangelicals in an Age of Extremism, discusses the unsettling trend of political polarization in the church, the role of pastors in responding to the pressure to reclaim a "Christian America," and the importance of having diverse relationships as we navigate this season of polarization.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Tim Alberta shares his story of being criticized for his political views while at his father's funeral.Tim Alberta expresses concern over the perceived decline of "Christian America."Alberta warns about the losses incurred when churches self-select into narrow ideological spaces.Diverse relationships are necessary for spiritual growth and addressing complex issues.Markus Watson mentions Allen Hilton and Andrew Hanauer's organizations working to address political polarization. These organizations bring different churches together to facilitate conversations and humanize each other.Alberta discusses how American Christians often view the U.S. as a nation set apart or a new Israel in covenant with God. This belief leads to a conflation of defending America with defending God.Some Christians view political opponents as cultural and spiritual adversaries, treating political warfare as spiritual warfare.There seems to be a fear among evangelicals of losing status, indoctrination of children, and being targeted by the government.Alberta discusses the shift from a culture sympathetic to Christian ideals to one perceived as hostile, creating a siege mentality.There seems to be a sense of entitlement within the evangelical community, akin to the belief of the ancient people of Israel..Tim Alberta highlights the difficulty for Christians to relate to scriptural suffering due to comfort and wealth in America.Some Christians compromise their virtues to reclaim a "Christian America," engaging in unethical behavior for a perceived greater good.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Tim Alberta:www.bytimalberta.comThe AtlanticTwitter/X - @TimAlbertaBooks mentioned:The Kingdom, the Power, and the Glory, by Tim AlbertaAmerican Carnage, by Tim AlbertaRelated episodes:Tackling Toxic Polarization in Your Church, with Allen Hilton and Andrew HanauerLeading Your Church Through Political Division, with Allen HiltonGrace-Filled Politics, with Aaron SchaferDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger explore how to discern and join in what God is doing in the world. They discuss the importance of humility, recognizing God's ongoing work beyond the church, and adopting practical spiritual disciplines. Tod shares personal practices, like evening prayers of gratitude and a mindset that sees God's activity through the night, to better align with God's work. They emphasize listening to both God and others to understand the broader context of God's presence and action.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Tim Soerens in Ep 204, How to Cultivate Presence in Your Community:“What is God up to? And how do I join in it? And what are the practices and postures and prompts that we need to keep asking ourselves in order to join in what God's doing?”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Tod advises starting the day with the mindset that God has already been at work throughout the night.Tim Soerens' quote emphasizes the need to discern what God is doing rather than trying to get God to join in our own plans.Markus encourages listening to the people in our communities to understand their hopes and fears.Tod highlights the importance of praying for God's kingdom to come on earth as it already exists in heaven.Markus reframes the perspective of a megachurch to see itself as a small part of the larger body of Christ.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!How does Jesus go about transforming individual lives and entire societies?  And what role do we play in that work of transformation?Yolanda Solomon, author of Discipleship as Holy Collaboration, helps us get clarity on these questions as she shares her insights on how to build a nurturing community in the Church, the challenges of modern discipleship, and the importance of addressing marginalized groups through a radically inclusive kingdom perspective.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Yolanda Solomon discusses the importance of collaboration and companionship in the Christian faith.Hebrews 10 underlines the importance of being known and spurring one another on to good works in discipleship.Markus Watson and Yolanda Solomon discuss the challenges of leadership today and how Jesus' teachings can guide leaders to serve and esteem those most margnalized.Discipleship is about followers of Jesus following in his footsteps, learning from him, and being invited into a new community of divine love to live and love like Jesus and continue his mission on earth.Discipleship is a holy collaboration with Jesus and involves empowering individuals through the Holy Spirit to imitate Jesus.Yolanda Solomon believes there is a discipleship problem in the church due to church hurt, the hierarchical church structure, and the misconception that discipleship is about behavior modification.She admits her past attempts at discipleship focused on modifying people's behavior, but she has since shifted to a discipleship strategy grounded in Jesus' educational approach.Yolanda Solomon highlights different ways of teaching and learning, mentioning how Jesus involves his disciples in the miracles he performs.Disciple-focused education should include practical involvement, such as Jesus' example of telling the disciples to feed the five thousand.Markus Watson and Yolanda Solomon emphasize the role of the Holy Spirit in heart transformation.Both Yolanda and Markus express the importance of addressing systemic oppression and social injustice.Yolanda Solomon shares a story about Jesus' forgiveness and its impact on systemic oppression, emphasizing that societal injustice affects both the oppressed and the oppressor.Yolanda Solomon highlights Jesus' rejection of worldly power and his call for sacrificial, inclusive love, underscoring the need for both heart and structural change in society.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Yolanda Solomon:www.yolandasolomon.siteInstagram - @yolanda.solomon.bkBooks mentioned:Discipleship as Holy Collaboration, by Yolanda SolomonKingdom, Church, and World, by Hoqard A. SnyderRelated episodes:Building a Multi-inclusive Church, with Efrem Smith and Dan KreissUnlearning Old Paradigms for Kingdom Leadership, with Terry WallingFrom Sunday Services to Real Transformation, with E.K. StrawserThe Muppets, “She Drives Me Crazy”Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger unpack a poignant quote from Adam McHugh, discussing the often-overlooked grief experienced during life transitions such as career changes and identity shifts. They reflect on Adam's personal journey from pastoral ministry to becoming a wine sommelier, emphasizing how letting go of deeply ingrained identities can be a difficult yet necessary process for embracing new seasons of life. The conversation underscores the importance of grief in these transitions and challenges the notion that Christians should always be joyful, highlighting that genuine grief prepares the way for new beginnings and deeper hope.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Adam McHugh in Ep 208, Letting Go in Leadership to Move Forward in Life:“You know, we talk about grief when you lose a loved one or when you lose something very specific. But there's a real grieving process, I think, that comes along with life transition, with career loss, with job loss, with identity loss."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Adam McHugh emphasizes the importance of grieving life transitions to move forward.Tod Bolsinger highlights that Christians often struggle with grief, favoring joy insteadTod says letting go of identity is difficult but necessary for embracing new life chapters.Markus Watson points out that Christians tend to skip over the grieving of Holy Saturday.Tod asserts that genuine grief prepares us for the new promises God holds for us.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger, Executive director of the Church Leadership Institute, discusses how to maintain a commitment to your mission even in the face of resistance.  He also unpacks the importance of trust in leadership, as well as how to craft and use a powerful mission statement guide you in your church's or organization's decision-making.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Tod Bolsinger introduces the "Disagree and commit" concept, highlighting its importance in leadership.Leaders need to earn trust for effective mission adherence.Trust alone isn't transformation, but foundational for it.Tod Bolsinger emphasizes the necessity of investing in transformation over merely relying on trust.Trust and transformation are connected; transformation involves investing trust.Tod Bolsinger discusses his series of four books on ministry leadership, addressing common leadership mistakes.The first book, "How Not to Waste a Crisis," tackles the mistake of outworking the changing world.Markus Watson shares his church's challenge in pleasing crucial stakeholders during change.Tod Bolsinger stresses that organizations should thrive in crises, not just survive.Tod Bolsinger explains the "disagree and commit" approach as essential for leadership teams.Mission statements should be rooted in the church's context and community.Clear, 8-word mission statements with verb, target, and impact are vital for decision-making.Tod Bolsinger explains the significance of verbs, targets, and impacts in mission statements.Good leaders rally stakeholders together for a bigger cause, but can fall into the trap of making decisions to keep everyone happy.Mission statements should be tools for making decisions, not just taglines.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Tod Bolsinger:Church Leadership InstituteFuller Theological SeminaryBooks mentioned:How Not to Waste a Crisis: Quit Trying Harder, by Tod BolsingerInvest in Transformation: Quit Relying on Trust, by Tod BolsingerLeading Through Resistance: Quit Pushing Back, by Tod BolsingerThe Mission Always Wins: Quit Appeasing Stakeholders, by Tod BolsingerRelated episodes:Canoeing the Mountains, with Tod BolsingerDisorientation and Spiritual Leadership, with Tod BolsingerThe Spiritual Life of a Leader, with Tod BolsingerForming Leadership Resilience, with Tod BolsingerDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss a quote from episode 216 with guests Brad Strawn and Warren Brown. The quote highlights the perception that contemporary Christianity in the United States is more known for what it opposes than for what it supports. Tod Bolsinger explores this phenomenon, attributing it to the psychological tendency to focus on fears rather than potential gains. The discussion delves into how this fear-based mindset influences church leadership and community actions, emphasizing the need for churches to rally around positive and constructive goals rather than being driven by anxiety and opposition.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Brad Strawn in Ep 216, Overcoming ‘Puny' Spirituality:"I think one of the sad things about the state of contemporary Christianity in the United States is that we're known for, not what we do, but what we're against."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Brad Strawn's quote highlights how contemporary Christianity focuses more on what it opposes than what it supports.Tod Bolsinger explains that fear motivates people to reject potential gains, influencing church behavior.The conversation reveals that pastors often worry about negative outcomes, leading congregations to prioritize protection over potential.Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger discuss how anxiety drives leadership to control rather than inspire.Tod Bolsinger calls for Christians to unite around positive community impacts rather than opposition to unfavorable elements.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Grace Ji-Sun Kim, theology professor at Earlham School of Religion and the author of When God Became White, discusses how cultural forces throughout history have shaped the portrayal of both God and Jesus as white males, and how that portrayal has hurt our ability to be the leaders we need to be.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Grace Ji-Sun Kim discusses the historical influence of the Roman Empire in shaping the perception of a white male God in Christianity.Cultural and societal forces led to the dominant image of a white male deity.Grace Ji-Sun Kim suggests reimagining God within different cultural contexts to challenge this prevailing narrative.Artists portraying Jesus in various ethnicities counteract the dominant white male imagery.Portraying God in diverse ways can be valuable and necessary.Markus Watson shares an example of a teacher's experiment to illustrate that race is a social construct, not a biological one.The conversation touches on the harmful implications of using race as a biological concept to assert superiority.According to Grace Ji-Sun Kim the feminine naming of Hagia Sophia as holy wisdom holds significant importance in church history.Diverse voices are crucial for leading change within churches.Grace Ji-Sun Kim suggests that white people should diversify their reading, podcast listening, and sermon choices for a deeper understanding.Markus Watson recounts his childhood exposure to a white Jesus, reflecting on its impact.Grace Ji-Sun Kim emphasizes the need to challenge and critique the prevailing image of a white male God.Practical steps for churches include critically analyzing liturgy, deeply engaging with scripture, and welcoming diverse perspectives for a fuller understanding of God.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Grace Ji-Sun Kim:Earlham School of ReligionMadang PodcastLoving Life SubstackBooks mentioned:When God Became White, by Grace Ji-Sun KimRelated episodes:Building a Multi-Inclusive Church, with Efrem Smith and Dan KreissCultivating Cultural Competence, with Daniel LeeCalled to Each Other, with Claude AlexanderMinistry Leadership in a Racialized Society, with David SwansonDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss a quote from Mike Bonem, which underscores the importance of empowering team members to fulfill their roles. They explore the necessity of recruiting the right people and then giving them the freedom to execute their tasks effectively. Tod emphasizes the value of clarity in mission and supportive leadership, allowing team members to excel in their areas of expertise without micromanagement. He also introduces the concept of "the commander's intent" to highlight the balance between freedom and direction in team management.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Mike Bonem in Ep 218, Trust, Teams, and Transformational Leadership:“If you're gonna recruit the right people to be on the team, then you need to release them to do the work that God has called them to do.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Mike Bonem's quote emphasizes the importance of recruiting the right people and then empowering them to fulfill their roles. Tod Bolsinger advises that effective leaders clearly communicate their mission to their team members.A good leader recruits talented individuals and grants them autonomy.Leaders should provide clarity and support to their team members.Leaders should hire people who are experts in their roles and trust them to perform their tasks independently.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Allen Hilton, Executive Director of A House United, and Andrew Hanauer, CEO of One America Movement, bring a wealth of experience and practical insight into how our churches can navigate political and cultural division, especially during this very divisive election season. We explore their strategies for "courageous conversations" and the importance of understanding and empathy in overcoming polarization—crucial topics for any ministry leader aiming to foster a congregation of love and unity.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:It's important for churches to address moments of violence, such as the recent assassination attempt on Donald Trump.  People need spiritual leadership in these times.Andrew Hanauer highlights the necessity of individuals taking personal responsibility for their role in division before blaming others.Allen Hilton points out that mingling across divides and having extended contact with others can reduce tendencies to blame.Markus Watson shares his trepidation about discussing divisive incidents within the church, recognizing the need despite potential conflicts.Allen Hilton insists that churches should engage in political conversations as politics profoundly impacts everyone's lives.The church's role, according to Andrew Hanauer, is to provide a framework for understanding the world, not avoiding political engagement.Andrew Hanauer asserts that facilitating tough conversations within congregations demonstrates a community's strength and unity.Andrew Hanauer promotes the value of diverse opinions in faith communities to build resilience in times of societal crises.Allen Hilton believes churches have a duty to form individuals “off the spot” who can navigate and mitigate polarization.Andrew Hanauer encourages the practice of praying for people we might consider enemies, which can transform our viewpoint towards them.Faith communities have the opportunity to model unity and provide spiritual meaning during times of loneliness and disconnection.The conversation concludes with Watson, Hilton, and Hanauer emphasizing the importance of self-reflection, responsible voting, and loving both neighbors and enemies to combat political polarization in our society.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Allen Hilton:House United MovementAndrew Hanauer:One America MovementRelated episodes:Leading Your Church Through Political Division, with Allen HiltonIs American Unity Possible?Prayer for a President in PainGrace-Filled Politics, with Aaron SchaferDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss the importance of transitions in both individual and organizational life, as highlighted by a quote from Terry Walling. They explore the concept of the "in between," likening it to the liminal space where significant transformation occurs. Bolsinger emphasizes that these periods of uncertainty are essential for faith and growth, encouraging leaders to embrace learning and personal journey as they guide their communities through times of change. The episode explores the challenges of these transitions and provides insights on how leaders can navigate them effectively.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Terry Walling in Ep 212, Unlearning Old Paradigms for Kingdom Leadership:“Transitions are the most important moments in an individual's life and in an organization's life because God does some of his greatest work in the in-between.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders must embrace the journey of learning to move forward effectively.Churches need to let go of immediate stability to experience transformational growth.Leaders should engage in their own continuous spiritual journey to inspire others.Congregations often resist the discomfort of transitional periods but must persevere.Effective interim leadership requires guiding churches through the unknown with faith.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Amy Peeler, author of Hebrews: Commentaries for Christian Formation, shares her insights on leadership through the lens of the book of Hebrews, drawing parallels between Jesus' steadfast priesthood and the role of modern pastors and leaders. Her reflections on enduring hope, resilience, and the practicalities of leading a post-COVID church are valuable for all who are in ministry leadership.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Amy Peeler explains the concept of loss and how it impacts the community when leaders pass away.Churches feel the impact of the loss of beloved mentors and leaders of faith.Amy Peeler emphasizes the comfort that Jesus Christ offers as an unwavering and stable leader.Amy Peeler emphasizes the need to navigate through confusion, exhaustion, and resistance in the wilderness, offering advice for leaders leading through change.The famous faith chapter, Hebrews 11, emphasizes enduring hope in God and faith as the foundation of good leadership.Amy Peeler highlights the imagery of holding on to Jesus as a boat is tethered to its anchor from Hebrews 6, emphasizing resting in Jesus' strength when things are difficult in our leadership.Humility and service are so important in leadership, even when being a pastor feels costly.Amy Peeler explores the importance of helping congregations navigate loss and resistance.Amy Peeler examines the practical instructions for leaders and the principles for leadership found throughout the letter of Hebrews.Hebrews' message includes the call for leaders to keep trusting in God, especially during persecution.Pastors and priests, according to Amy Peeler, are mediators, similar to Jesus' role as High Priest.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Amy Peeler:www.amypeeler.comWheaton CollegeBooks mentioned:Hebrews: Commentaries for Christian Formation, by Amy PeelerWomen and the Gender of God, by Amy PeelerRelated episodes:Power, Vulnerability, Rest, with Tod BolsingerLeading Like Jesus, with Ken BlanchardDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Markus Watson and Tod Bolsinger engage in a discerning conversation about the leadership and mission implications of the idea that God is already pesent in every culture. They consider the respect and humility required when entering new cultures and relationships, especially with the understanding that God's presence and work precede us. Through personal stories and theological insights, they explore the posture of listening and joining in what God is already doing, rather than imposing our preconceptions.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Justin Bailey in Episode 173, The Art of Interpreting Culture:“You never go to another culture where God is not already present and at work.”THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:God actively engages in all cultures even before we arrive, as highlighted by Justin Bailey's insight that one never enters a culture where God isn't already present and working.Leaders enhance their missions by respectfully listening first, acknowledging God's presence in every context, as emphasized by Tod Bolsinger's agreement with Justin Bailey.Christian engagement with others thrives when it begins with humility and recognition of God's preexisting activity, instead of approaching with a colonial mindset of bringing God to an empty space.Spiritual encounters flourish when the approach is invitational and inclusive, as demonstrated by Markus Watson's open communion table welcoming all individuals to participate.Adaptive leadership calls for joining in what God is already doing within a community, rather than imposing a preconceived agenda, thus resonating with an organic and responsive mode of spiritual leadership.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Efrem Smith and Dan Kreiss, the authors of Church For Everyone: Building a Multi-Inclusive Community, explore the importance of multi-inclusivity in church leadership, the need to empower young people in decision-making, and the steps required to break down socio-economic and cultural barriers within our faith communities.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Creating spaces and processes for the emerging generation to have voice and participate in decision-making within multi-inclusive churches is crucial.In the Evangelical Covenant Church, the 6-fold test for multi-ethnic ministry includes population, participation, and power as key aspects to consider.Efforts to create spaces for feedback and participation are a key step in promoting inclusion and diversity in churches.Efrem Smith emphasizes the need to intentionally hire diverse staff and involve the emerging generation in shaping the church's narrative.Dan Kreiss points out that long-standing churches with deep traditions face greater challenges and need intentional discomfort and leadership formation to create a multi-inclusive community.According to Efrem Smith and Dan Kreiss, the diverse and multi-ethnic nature of the younger generation is not reflected in many church contexts on Sunday mornings.Dan Kreiss points out that building relationships with those outside his predominantly Caucasian church is essential to foster inclusion and understanding.Efrem Smith underscores the need to eliminate excuses for young people to dismiss the church and to create a multi-inclusive community that reflects the diversity found in other aspects of their lives.God can use individuals of different generations to advance his kingdom, as demonstrated by the biblical stories of David, Esther, Abraham, and Josiah.The letters of Paul emphasize the importance of a multi-inclusive, Christ-centered community, reflecting the multicultural and intergenerational nature of the church.According to Dan Kreiss, starting the journey towards a multi-inclusive church involves intentional efforts to build relationships with diverse communities.Dan Kreiss encourages pastors to surround themselves with others in the community for support and accountability.Efrem Smith says the move from stigmatizing the younger generation to becoming friends and missionaries to them is essential.Navigating the tensions between different generations is part of maintaining an intergenerational and diverse church environment.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Efrem Smith:Mid-town ChurchInfluential Global MinistriesInstagram - @efrem.smithDan Kreiss:Roswell Presbyterian ChurchInstagram - @dan_kreissBooks mentioned:Church for Everyone, by Efrem Smith and Dan KreissRelated episodes:Called to Each Other, with Claude AlexanderMinistry Leadership in a Racialized Society, with David SwansonIdentity, Belonging, and Purpose, with Kara PowellDid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Tod Bolsinger brings a wealth of knowledge and experience to this conversation, challenging us to resist nostalgia and the allure of a past era—like the 1960s, when the church thrived in a very different context. Reflecting on a quote from Miroslav Volf, Bolsinger, together with Markus Watson, contemplates the dangers of yearning for what no longer exists and the pressing need to adapt to a future we can't fully see yet.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from MIroslav Volf in Episode 169, TThe Materiality of God's Mission:“We can't orient ourselves around the old world; it would be dumb for us to do that.  And we don't know how to orient ourselves with a world that hasn't yet been born.” THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Many of our churches represent an "old world" paradigm, one led by experienced elders rather reminiscent of past church glories.Clinging to past success impedes churches from effectively engaging with and inhabiting the emerging world.Tod Bolsinger underscores the futility of solving new challenges with outdated solutions, advocating for a learning-oriented approach to leadership.Markus Watson acknowledges that navigating without a clear map of the future requires faith and adaptability.Bolsinger insists that the mission isn't to preserve the church but to pass the faith forward, adapting to the world's evolving needs.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!In ministry leadership, how we respond to crises significantly impacts not just our journey, but also the communities we serve. Painful experiences like this can be crucibles that mold our character, highlight the importance of emotional presence, and underscore the need for institutional stamina—how do we get through this together?Gayle Beebe is the president of Westmont College and author of The Crucibles That Shape Us.  In this conversation, and he shares some of the ways he has had to lead through tragedy and crisis.  He unpacks concepts like competing commitments which are exposed in times of crisis.  He talks about the importance of having processing partners in our leadership. And he shares some of the profound lessons he learned from both the personal and institutional tragedies that he has had to lead through. This episode's highlights include:The seven crucibles from Gayle Beebe's book are:The Crucible of Missed MeaningThe Crucible of Enduring ChallengeThe Crucible of Human TreacheryThe Crucible of Awakened Moral ConscienceThe Crucible of Social ConflictThe Crucible of Human SufferingThe Crucible of Personal ChoiceGayle Beebe discusses how individuals experience competing commitments in both personal and social contexts and the significant consequences individuals face when failing to balance competing commitments effectively.Personal losses and tragedies can shape leaders, developing their empathy and perspectives.Gayle Beebe reflects on how challenging experiences have deepened his understanding of God and reshaped his meaning in life.Leaders feel great pressure to maintain composure; thus the need for having a processing partner.Gayle Beebe reflects on Westmont College's response to the events of 2020, including the murder of George Floyd.Westmont College leaned into its existing commitments to justice, reconciliation, and diversity, focusing on building partnerships with those already engaged in work related to justice and diversity.Westmont College sought out and hired diverse faculty and staff to promote inclusivity, engaging in comprehensive training for the board, executive team, faculty, staff, and students.The discussion highlights key strategies like treating everyone with integrity, care, and respect.Westmont College identified bridge builders from minority populations to enhance community relationships.Gayle Beebe talks about handling emotionally devastating events, such as natural disasters, with spiritual strength and he discusses the learnings and resilience he developed from facing institutional crises, including the wildfires that impacted Westmont's campus.Relevant Resources and Links:Gayle BeebeEmail - president@westmont.eduWestmont CollegeBooks mentioned:The Crucibles that Shape Us, by Gayle BeebePensées, by Blaise PascalThinking Fast and Slow, by Daniel KahnemanRelated episodes:Embracing Limitations as a Ministry Resource, with Tod BolsingerADid you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!This episode explores the critical role of joy in fostering deep connections within our communities. As Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson consider how an atmosphere of joy can be crafted and communicated through our actions, they discuss how this translates to effective ministry and church leadership.Tod Bolsinger and Markus Watson discuss this quote from Jim Wilder in Episode 179, The Neuroscience of Spiritual Formation:"In order to get people to attach to each other you have to create an environment of joy where people are glad to be together."THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Leaders must foster an environment of joy to help community members form strong bonds with each other.Authentic joy in relationships emerges when individuals feel truly valued and important to one another.Communicating warm, genuine excitement through physical presence bolsters connections within a community.Instilling a sense of joyful belonging serves as the foundation for transformative life experiences.Embracing challenges becomes enriching when undertaken alongside a community that cares deeply for one another.Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!

Send me a text! I'd love to know what you're thinking!Strong sermons, pastoral care and counseling, leading Bible studies.  These are all really important for effective ministry leadership.  But leading a church or organization is more than just that, isn't it?In this episode, Mike Bonem--consultant, coach, and author of The Art of Leading Change--offers invaluable insights into how trust, effective team-building, and adept communication can transform your leadership and help you navigate the complexities of ministry.THIS EPISODE'S HIGHLIGHTS INCLUDE:Mike Bonem highlights the importance of trust in leadership, emphasizing that people are unlikely to give 110% if they don't trust their leader.Markus Watson notes that trust has different dimensions and can erode gradually through unfulfilled commitments and unmet expectations.Trust is built through follow-through on commitments and investing in relational components.When there is trust within a congregation, people are more likely to give the benefit of the doubt, get involved in initiatives, and commit to change.Trust is about being trustworthy as a person, not just doing things to gain trust.Manipulation by leaders is easily detected, underscoring the necessity of integrity.Mike Bonem discusses the importance of building strong teams to handle heavy loads and accomplish needed tasks.Building a strong team involves intentionally enlisting different perspectives and gifts.It is important to include people who challenge and bring different perspectives in the planning stages, even if they are skeptical.Pastors should recognize the tendency to go alone and consider where they will be a year from now if they don't enlist a team.Mike Bonem elaborates on the value of getting different perspectives and gifts in the room for effective team building.Markus Watson reflects on his own experience of leading change in a church amid the pandemic, highlighting how difficult it was.Mike Bonem emphasizes the importance of incorporating business practices into pastoral work to improve leadership in congregations.Mike Bonem and Markus Watson discuss key principles for leading change, including leading with trust, recognizing the importance of strong teams, and understanding that resistors are not the enemy.Mike Bonem's Fuller Equip online course "The Business of Ministry" provides fundamental training for pastors in areas such as finance, HR, and church business.The first module of Mike Bonem's course addresses the debate on whether the church should adopt business practices to ensure good stewardship of resources.RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:Mike Bonem:Website – mikebonem.comBusiness of Ministry online courseBooks mentioned:The Art of Leading Change, by Mike BonemLeading from the Second Chair, by Mike BonemStrengthening the Soul of Your Leadership, by Ruth Haley BartonSacred Rhythms, by Ruth Haley BartonGood to Great, by Jim CollinsRelated episodes:Did you know Spiritual Life and Leadership has been named the #1 Spiritual Leadership Podcast by the Feedspot Podcasters Database? Check it out HERE!