Podcast appearances and mentions of eugene peterson

This message introduces a new sermon series focused on the biblical book of Proverbs, emphasizing the importance of wisdom in daily life, especially in an age dominated by information and technological advancements like artificial intelligence. Will Dyer reflects on a conversation with a friend who left Christianity seeking practical guidance for everyday living, countering the misconception that faith is only about the afterlife. Instead, the message asserts that Proverbs—and the Bible as a whole—offers practical wisdom for living well now. Will distinguishes between knowledge (the accumulation of information) and wisdom (the ability to live rightly), warning that modern culture often confuses the two. Central to gaining wisdom, according to Proverbs, is the "fear of the Lord," which is explained not as terror but as reverence, humility, and taking God seriously. The message draws on interpretations from Eugene Peterson, Walter Brueggemann, and Jonathan Sacks to illustrate that wisdom begins with a proper relationship with God, seeing the world through God's eyes, and acting accordingly. The series aims to guide listeners toward practical, everyday discipleship rooted in this understanding. 

Have you ever wondered if you belonged somewhere? Or have you ever quietly decided that someone else didn't?In this Bible study and reflection, we explore a remarkable story from Eugene Peterson's The Pastor about Truck Carson, a truck driver whose life was transformed after reading a Gideon Bible he found in a motel room. As Truck shared his testimony, an entire congregation learned an important lesson about grace, belonging, and the power of God's Word.Using Proverbs, Isaiah 55:11, Galatians 3:28, James 2:1-9, and John 10:27, we examine the contrast between the voice of Wisdom and the voice of Folly. One voice judges by appearances; the other sees people through the eyes of God. Ultimately, this episode points us to the voice of Jesus, the Good Shepherd, who calls His sheep by name and welcomes them into His family.Join us as we discover why Christian community is not built on social status, education, wealth, or background—but on the saving grace of Jesus Christ.

A sermon preached by Rev. Ginger E. Gaines-Cirelli with Foundry UMC, May 31, 2026, First Sunday after Pentecost, Confirmation Sunday. "We Know Who We Are"series. Texts: Genesis 1:26-2:3; Ephesians 2:4–10 There are some words in scripture that change everything. Not because they're long or unusual. But because they turn the whole story in a different direction. Today's passage contains two of those words: “But God.” Before we can appreciate those words, we need to know what precedes them. In the first 3 verses of Ephesians 2, Paul reminds the church in Ephesus of their old ways of being. The direct translation from the Greek is convoluted and confusing, but Eugene Peterson's interpretation from The Message helps us get the point: “It wasn't so long ago that you were mired in that old stagnant life of sin. You let the world, which doesn't know the first thing about living, tell you how to live…We all did it, all of us doing what we felt like doing, when we felt like doing it, all of us in the same boat. It's a wonder God didn't lose his temper and do away with the whole lot of us.” And then…. “But God…” The old story gets interrupted. It moves in a new direction. Which is good news because most of us know something about stories that seem stuck in a rut. Maybe you've carried shame for something you did years ago. Maybe you've convinced yourself that some part of your life is beyond repair. Maybe you've spent so long trying to prove your worth that you've forgotten who you are underneath all the striving. Maybe you've watched the news lately and wondered whether cruelty and greed and fear are simply winning. The story goes one way. But God… That little phrase shows up all over scripture. Human beings build a tower to heaven. But God. Sarah is too old. But God. The sea is in front of them. Pharaohs army is behind them. But God. The disciples lock themselves in a room because they are terrified. But God. The cross stands on a hill outside Jerusalem. But God. Mary Magdalene despaired at the tomb. But God. Again and again, scripture insists that God is never limited by the stories we tell ourselves about what is possible. What a gift. Because one of the stories many of us carry is the story that we have to earn our way. This is so ingrained in our culture and mindset. We learn that story early. We learn it from grades and report cards. From performance reviews. From comparisons. From all the subtle ways the world teaches us to keep score. We absorb these lessons so deeply that eventually we begin to assume that God works this way too. God helps those who help themselves. God rewards the faithful. God blesses the deserving. God keeps score. But this is precisely the story Paul is trying to undo. Our temptation to slide into the world's quid pro quo economy isn't new. And in these few verses, Paul takes pains to refute it—not with an abstract argument, but by showing us, phrase by phrase, who God is and how grace works. So let's move through the text together and listen deeply to the word. Notice where Paul begins. “But God, who is rich in mercy...” Rich in mercy. Before Paul says anything about us, he says something about God. After describing the sorry, lost state of humanity, Paul doesn't say, “But we finally figured it out.” He doesn't say, “But we repented.” He doesn't say, “But we became more faithful.” He doesn't say, “But we got serious about our spiritual lives.” He says, “But God.” The turning point of the story is not a change in us. It is a revelation of who God is. “But God, who is rich in mercy...” Paul could have said simply, “God is merciful.” He doesn't. He says God is plousios (πλούσιος)—in the Greek: rich, abundant, lavish—in mercy. Possessing more mercy than we can imagine. This is so important! Because most of us have been trained to think in terms of scarcity. There's never enough time or money or security or opportunity. There is not enough to go around. There are only so many slices of any pie. And if we're not careful, we start to imagine that God's resources are limited too. Limited patience. Limited forgiveness. Limited love. Limited welcome. Only so many second chances. As though mercy were something God has to budget carefully. As though grace might run out. As though God were standing over us with a ledger, keeping score, calculating whether we've finally earned another chance. But Paul says, “Nope. That's not who God is.” Mercy is not scarce in God. Mercy is abundant in God. God's mercy is not pie—and there's not limited supply! Mercy flows from God as naturally as light from the sun. And lest we miss the point, Paul piles on another phrase: “Out of the great love with which God loved us.” It's almost as though he can't find enough words—mercy, love, grace, kindness. The language keeps overflowing because Paul is trying to describe a reality that exceeds ordinary human calculation. The world understands transaction. But God operates through grace. And perhaps that is why grace is so difficult for us to receive. We know how to earn. We know what it takes to achieve. We know the way to keep score. Many of us have spent our entire lives trying to prove that we are worthy of love, worthy of belonging, worthy of respect, worthy of a place at the table. And some versions of Christianity have reinforced exactly that impulse. Behave yourself and God will bless you. Believe the right things and God will reward you. Get your life together and God will finally accept you. Or the flip side: Mess up and God will punish you. Doubt and God will reject you. Fail and God will turn away. But Paul will have none of it. “By grace you have been saved.” Grace! We are not saved by following the rules or checking the boxes or through achievement or merit. The story isn't about keeping score or about earned interest and love averages. “By grace you have been saved.” Grace. One of the most beautiful insights of the United Methodist movement is that grace starts earlier than we think it does. We tend to imagine that grace begins the moment we become aware of God. But John Wesley said no. Grace was already there. We think grace begins when we decide to follow Jesus. Wesley said no. Grace was already there. We think grace begins when we repent. Wesley said no. Grace was already there. Before faith, grace. Before understanding, grace. Before discipleship, grace. Before baptism, grace. Before confirmation, grace. Long before we know how to pray, grace is already making a way toward us. Long before we know God's name, God knows ours. United Methodists call this prevenient grace—the grace that goes before. The grace that is always preceding us, drawing us, inviting us, wooing us toward life. And I don't know about you, but I find that to be astonishingly good news. Because it means that the story of faith begins not with our searching for God, but with God's refusal to stop searching for us. But Paul isn't finished. He goes further, saying God “made us alive together with Christ.” Alive—not merely forgiven or a little nicer. Alive. This is resurrection language. It is creation language. It's the language of new possibility. This strikes me as especially powerful in a world where so many people are exhausted and carrying grief. Where so many people are overwhelmed by the state of the world and struggling simply to keep their hearts open. Paul speaks a pastoral word into our lives, assuring us that grace is not merely about doing more today to get into heaven someday. Grace is the power that makes us alive right now. Alive to God. Alive to beauty. Alive to joy. Alive to compassion. Alive to possibility and hope. And there is something else here that often gets lost in translation. Paul doesn't say that God made me alive. He says God made us alive. The language throughout this passage is communal. Every “you” in the text is plural. It's not about me; it's about we. Which means the story is not simply about God saving isolated individuals. It is about God creating a people. A community. A new humanity. People shaped not by fear, scarcity, or competition, but rather shaped by grace, abundance, and love. Today, a group of young people will stand before us to profess their faith. And what moves me every year is that confirmation is not fundamentally about private belief. It is about belonging. These young people are not simply saying, “I believe.” They are saying, “This is my people. This is the community in which I will learn what it means to follow Jesus.” And we are saying, “We need you. Your voice, your gifts, your questions, your presence will continue to shape who we become.” Because grace doesn't merely gather individuals. Grace creates a people. Paul addresses this in what he says next. “We are what God has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works...” The Greek word translated here as “what God has made” is poiēma (ποίημα). It's where we get the word poem. You could translate it: We are God's handiwork. God's artistry. God's creative work. And suddenly the echo of Genesis comes into view. The God who formed creation, breathed life into dust, and called it good is still creating, still forming, still calling beauty forth from chaos and light from darkness. We spend so much of our lives trying to make ourselves. Trying to prove ourselves. Trying to justify ourselves. Trying to become enough. Paul says we are not self-made. We are God-made. We are God's handiwork, God's poem. God's art. God's ongoing project. And we are already enough—even as we keep learning and growing. Now, at this point, some people get nervous. If grace is this abundant, if salvation is truly a gift, if God's love comes before we earn it and before we deserve it, then what keeps us from simply doing whatever we want? Paul is clear that we don't earn our salvation. And he is equally clear that God created us for good works. Good works are not the cause of salvation, they are the fruit of salvation, evidence that grace is alive and active within us. Or to put it another way: God doesn't love us because we do good things. We begin to do good things because we have encountered the love of God. Grace is not an excuse to do nothing. Grace is an invitation to participate in what God is doing in the world. Grace is bigger than we think. It is not merely a drop of help when we're struggling or a nudge of encouragement when we're discouraged. It is not a small boost for the spiritual journey. It is the power of God's mercy and love constantly interrupting the stories that diminish life and opening up new possibilities we could never create on our own. And because grace is bigger than we think, it keeps interrupting the stories that tell us life can only go one way. The world says there isn't enough. But God is rich in mercy. The world says you have to earn your place. But God saves by grace. The world says shame gets the last word. But God is great in love. The world says what is dead is dead. But God makes us alive. The world says you're on your own. But God makes us alive together. The world says this is all there is. But God is still creating. Still shaping. Still calling life from dust. Still making all things new. The story was going one way. But God. Thanks be to God. Amen. + + + Keep a daily grace log. At the end of each day, ask: Where did I experience a “But God” moment today? Where did grace go before me? Where did mercy, love, beauty, hope, community, or possibility interrupt the story I expected?

What's your story today?In this teaching on Psalm 59, John Ortberg explores one of the most important lessons of the Psalms: prayer is always prayed from inside a story.Drawing from Answering God, John challenges the idea of "spiritualized prayer" — prayer that removes the conflict, fear, anger, disappointment, and messiness of ordinary life.Psalm 59 was written in the middle of David's crisis. Men were sent to kill him. His prayer wasn't polished. It wasn't neat. It was real.This episode explores:- Why every prayer comes from a story- The danger of spiritually correct prayer- Psalm 59 and David's honesty- Fear, trust, and emotional authenticity- Eugene Peterson's insights on prayer- Bringing your whole self before GodFeaturing reflections from:- Eugene Peterson- David's life in 1 SamuelScriptures:- Psalm 59- Psalm 3- 1 Samuel 19#Psalm59 #JohnOrtberg #Prayer #EugenePeterson #SpiritualFormation #ChristianFaith #BibleStudy #Psalms #Authenticity #Faith

Welcome to the Inverted Orthodoxy Podcast! We're Blake, Kyle, and Doug the pastors from Living Springs, here to take you on a weekly adventure through the twists and turns of faith. Got questions? We've got answers, and sometimes more questions! Join us as we explore, celebrate, and embrace the beautiful complexities of belief. This weeks episode covers the following questions: (1:15 into episode)AER-Please capitalize the G in God. Thank you.(25:41 into episode)Aer - life - the fullest possible life today without sacrificing life tomorrowFor pastor Blake - I know he doesn't get AER much! On the last episode (439) he encouraged us to really think about what we were going to do next and think about if it is good for us. Would you go as far as thinking about whether or not I should get another snack, or whether I should buy another tech gadget, or whether I should get my nails done or another hair cut… because for many people we have a excess of food and maybe are not stewarding our money well, and to what extent do we think that those actions could lead us to sin, if we are living in excess and therefore not being as generous as we could be? Or is it just with things that we don't know as much about? Like fictional worlds which encourage imagination, reading, and interacting with others? Surely you could argue that being a hockey fan is bad for your soul because you spend money on watching the game, playing the game, spend time thinking and talking to others about how well the team is doing, but actually we should be fixing our eyes on Jesus and seeking his kingdom first. When does it become too much? And when is ok because we all need time to rest and enjoy something besides work? (25:41 into episode)On episode 439 Kyle says that he wouldn't go around bragging about playing D&D if 90% of his congregation thought it was evil, but what if a good number of your young people that you are reaching out to and discipline enjoy playing it, writing the adventures and leading their friends through the story they created. How would you meet the diverse needs of people who may not know what it is and are just scared, with those who enjoy playing it as a fun group game. Especially with young people today who spend too long on screens, shouldn't we be encouraging them to do things with people irl? It is a game that requires creativity and collaboration, both important skills for our young people. Would we want to tell them it is evil And condemn them?(32:30 into episode) AER: last episode Kyle said he was reading "dungeon crawler carl", I'm curious how kyle would adapt these books into a sermon. (35:40 into episode)Feb 20- Do you believe in the prophecy of the anti-Christ in revelations? If so do you believe he would arise in opposition to the church representing secular culture? Or would he arise to within the church and represent a more fundamentalist/nationalist culture?Resources: Reverse Thunder by Eugene Peterson Revelation For The Rest Of Us by Scott McKnight with Cody Matchett Reading Revelation Responsibly by Michael J Gorman Discipleship On The Edge by Daryll Johnson Bible Project: Revelation Do you have a question you've been wanting answered? Head on over to our website www.invertedorthodoxy.com to submit a question. You can find us on Wednesdays on Youtube, or wherever you subscribe to podcasts. To learn more about our church, you can visit www.livingspringsairdrie.com

"This is the most difficult and at the same time the most important thing to embrace in the Christian life: that we become willing participants (with God), not only in what God does but in the way He does it."—Eugene Peterson, Christ Plays in Ten Thousand PlacesFriends, we continue to be gripped by these two questions. How are our daily activities shaping us into the people we are becoming? And, what changes might aim our becoming more closely toward the Person and Way of Jesus? In this next episode of the Become Good Soil Foundations Series we invite you to reflect with us on these questions and the ancient idea of a rule of life. Our hope—as we revisit the rule of life—is to facilitate a gentle check in regarding how we are arranging our days.Developing a rule of life does not mean picking up a heavy yoke or toeing the line for a critical voice. Rather, “rule” in this case is related to a ruler or guide. Just as it's helpful to use a ruler to steady our hand when drawing a line, so a rule of life helps guide our lives in the direction we yearn to live. As has often been observed, a rule of life is like a trellis supporting a growing vine. The trellis supports the vine as it grows and bears fruit, shaping its form and making possible its generativity. As a vine without a trellis becomes tangled, turned in on itself, and unfruitful, so can our hearts and lives, habits and relationships, desires and impulses devolve without the structure of a supportive rule of life. With characteristic understatement, Jesus reminds us that each day of life brings plenty of predictable challenges (Matthew 6:34). What would it be like to receive from our God and the wisdom of His people a “trellis” of habits and practices that over time will form the resilience, endurance, faithfulness, joy, and love of Jesus? What would it be like to have a Kingdom-trellis upon which to rest our souls as we trust the Spirit to form in us by day and decade the character of Jesus and allow us to persevere through whatever challenge we may face on the Way?Check in with us as we explore a rule of life together.It's all been prologue. The best is yet to come.For the Kingdom,Morgan & Cherie

Intro: Sickness over the holiday weekend, I stink at archery (hunting).6:45: Brocasts, Ancient Nashville, conspiracy theories and parental moderating.11:25: Humility vs. skepticism when it comes to what we understand about history.14:52: The waves of feminism. A new take on first wave feminism. Rachel Wilson and Joe Rogan and women voting.19:00: Men and women: Carrying each other's burdens, time with kids at bedtime.25:16: Mary Queen of Scots and religious persecution.33:06: Good, true, and beautiful, Theo of Golden, JR has deja vú.38:38: JR asks about visiting people in June/July. Molly says “no” to bringing kids down.41:57 Eugene Peterson and accepting the terms of creation, The Desecration of Man.47:20: A story about a neighbor and having a moral basis for outrage at a school shooting.54:45 Part of being human is recognizing our limits, obligations, and…something else

Why should we pray the Psalms slowly?In this reflective teaching, John Ortberg explores the nature of Hebrew poetry, the structure of the Psalms, and why the language of prayer was never meant to be rushed.Using Psalm 90 and several other Psalms, John unpacks the beauty of biblical parallelism — repetition, pivots, refrains, and poetic movement that deepen meaning and slow the soul down enough to notice God.This episode explores:- Why the Psalms are poetry, not prose- Hebrew parallelism explained simply- Why repetition matters spiritually- Psalm 23, Psalm 88, and Psalm 90- Jesus' use of poetic teaching- Prayer as attentiveness rather than efficiencyFeaturing reflections from:- Eugene Peterson- C.S. Lewis- Robert LowthScriptures:- Psalm 90- Psalm 23- Psalm 88- Matthew 7#Psalms #Prayer #JohnOrtberg #SpiritualFormation #HebrewPoetry #BibleStudy #Psalm90 #ChristianFaith #EugenePeterson #CSLewis

Why would God include violent prayers in the Bible?In this deeply challenging teaching on Psalm 137, John Ortberg explores anger, injustice, enemies, suffering, and why the Psalms are far more emotionally honest than most modern spirituality.John begins with a provocative statement: “You should stop having a quiet time.”Using reflections from Eugene Peterson, this episode explores the difference between prayer that merely calms us down and prayer that honestly confronts evil, grief, and the brokenness of the world.This episode explores:- Why Psalm 137 feels so disturbing- The role of anger and indignation- Why suppressed hatred is spiritually dangerous- Prayer as honesty before God- Jesus, enemy-love, and the Psalms- “Our hate needs to be prayed, not suppressed”Featuring reflections on:- Eugene Peterson- C.S. Lewis- René GirardScriptures:- Psalm 137- Ephesians 6:12- Matthew 5:44#Psalm137 #JohnOrtberg #Prayer #SpiritualFormation #ChristianFaith #Psalms #EugenePeterson #Justice #Forgiveness #BibleStudy

“The Hebrew way to understand salvation is not to read a theological treatise but to sit around a campfire with family and friends, listening to a story. It is the very nature of storytelling to include us, the hearers, in the story… For salvation is not the spiritual diagnosis of souls, one here, one there. It is the story of a people. A community with a past, with ancestors, with common experience.”—Eugene Peterson, Christ Plays in Ten Thousand PlacesIn this next episode of the Become Good Soil Foundations Series, we invite you to pause and personally explore how koinonia—the heartbeat of the redemptive community modeled in the New Testament—might provide a clue for how we live counterculturally in a world deeply formed by hyper-individualism.In the film Defiance, we see a heroic picture of redemptive community. The Bielski brothers gather fleeing refugees in the forests of modern-day Belarus to escape the persecution of World War II. There in the woods, with only the essentials, a redemptive community is formed as they struggle to survive. When they host a wedding, it becomes a beautiful reminder that joy and sorrow coexist. (Links to the Defiance Trailer and Wedding Scene here.)Throughout the New Testament, we see redemptive fellowship being recovered and nurtured by a remnant of people whose hearts are being captured and apprenticed by the Living God. We catch a glimpse of this in Acts chapter 2. Koinonia is defined as fellowship, association, community, participation, and sharing in one another's lives.The first picture we have of koinonia exists within the Trinity itself: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in perfect fellowship. But more than simply observing that fellowship, we are invited into koinonia—first and foremost with God.And from this place of intimate communion with God, the gospel invites us to love others. Paul helps us explore this idea through the imagery of the body in 1 Corinthians 12:25–26:“The way God designed our bodies is a model for understanding our lives together as a church: every part dependent on every other part, the parts we mention and the parts we don't, the parts we see and the parts we don't. If one part hurts, every other part is involved in the hurt, and in the healing. If one part flourishes, every other part enters into the exuberance.”To be in fellowship with others in our fallen age is inherently risky. It involves cycles of rupture and repair. How do we pursue, engage in, respond to, repair, and flourish within a redemptive community? Where might God be inviting you to reconsider your participation in koinonia?Join us as we explore this profound idea of koinonia together.It's all been prologue. The best is yet to come.For the Kingdom,Morgan & Cherie

In this episode, Chris Smith, founding editor of ERB, speaks with best-selling author Shannan Martin and first-time author Amar Peterman about the intersecting themes of faith, justice, and community in their new books. Their conversation explores the tension between life's “heavy goodness” and its “undercurrent of grief,” demonstrating that "we can only counter what we're first willing to weigh," as Martin puts it. In addition, the authors explore the tension between one's personal comfort and the call to “draw near in mercy” to our neighbors, especially those who are marginalized, as Peterman points out. Both authors emphasize that meaningful change begins not with grand gestures but with everyday relationships, accompanying our neighbors across lines of difference through joys and struggles. Overall, the episode, like the books, is not prescriptive but rather rooted deeply in how the authors work to cultivate a sense of belonging for everyone in their local neighborhoods.If you'd like to order any of the following books, we encourage you to do so from Hearts and Minds Books (an independent bookstore in Dallastown, PA, run by Byron and Beth Borger) Books by Shannan MartinCounterweights The Ministry of Ordinary PlacesStart with HelloFalling Free Work by Amar PetermanBecoming Neighbors: The Common Good Made Local Other Books MentionedA Theology of Liberation by Gustavo Gutiérrez Paul Farmer: Servant to the Poor by Jennie Weiss BlockMake Your Home in this Luminous Dark by James K. SmithGod Without Being by Jean-Luc MarionHope for the Mission by Kevin NyeCherished Belonging: The Healing Power of Love in Divided Times by Gregory BoyleKin by Tayari Jones (novel)The Message, a Bible translation by Eugene Peterson

Destructive Zeal and Redemption with Josh LiemGalatians 1:11-2:10This Sunday, we continue our Life in the Spirit series in Galatians 1:11–2:10, where the Apostle Paul tells us his own story — the embarrassing parts and all. We'll see how Paul's shameful chapter became the very credential of his ministry, and how your own story is where Jesus is being made visible.For reflection & discussion:When you were 18, what did you think your life was going to look like? How close did it get?The sermon walked through Paul's autobiography in five movements: his former life, the great reversal, Arabia, his visit with Peter, and his ministry. Share your story.  Does it bear any resemblances to Paul's?  Were there any too-vulnerable details you left out? (you don't need to share, just notice.)Galatians 2:10 says the one thing the Jerusalem apostles asked of Paul was "remember the poor." Why was this the litmus test for the gospel? The sermon described Arabia as "a place of assimilation and reflection" — where Paul went to unpack his life before God. Eugene Peterson wrote, "Arabia can be a couple of hours in a quiet room, or in worship each Sunday, or seizing times of solitude." Where is your Arabia? When did you last go there? What kept you away?The sermon asked the question: "What is the trap you can see, because you used to live in it?" Paul's persecution-past gave him eyes to recognize religious coercion when it crept into the Galatian church. What trap can you recognize because of your own story? Who in your life — or in our city — is currently caught in that trap, and what could you do this month to be present to them?The Jerusalem apostles asked Paul to "remember the poor." The sermon said: "A freedom that ignores or forgets or despises the poor is a bogus freedom." In our specific neighbourhood — South Vancouver — who are the poor and forgotten that this group could begin to remember together? Brainstorm specifically. What's one small step?

Everyone's talking about mindfulness… but what if we've missed the most important part?What if the key isn't your mind being focused—but God's mind being focused on you?In this teaching on Psalm 8, John Ortberg explores a deeper kind of mindfulness—one that begins not with your attention, but with God's.While we often struggle with distraction, anxiety, and rumination, Psalm 8 reveals something surprising: God is fully, constantly mindful of you. His attention never drifts. His care never wavers.Through reflection, Scripture, and guided prayer, this teaching invites you to step into praise, re-center your mind, and experience what it means to live in the awareness of God's presence.You'll also learn how to pray the Psalm—turning your attention from distraction to delight, and from anxiety to awe.Music Credits:Vikersund by RØRE - MB01V0UASAACPKEAlta by RØRE - MB01IWZVJASGKHF

What happens when a pastor realizes they're going through the motions—but not actually experiencing God? In this episode, Loren talks with Rev. Dr. Katherine Willis Pershey about faith, formation, and the unexpected influence of Eugene Peterson on her life and ministry. Drawing from her own journey across multiple Christian traditions, Katherine reflects on the tension between justice, belief, and personal encounter with God. The conversation explores how Peterson's writing helped her rediscover prayer, Scripture, and the heart of pastoral vocation—not as performance or productivity, but as attentiveness to a living, active God. They also wrestle with the challenges of ministry in a secular age, the pressures facing pastors today, and the difficulty of maintaining spiritual depth in a culture shaped by busyness and division. They discuss the false divide between personal piety and social justice, the importance of spiritual practices like prayer and worship, and what it means to lead faithfully in a fragmented and polarized church landscape.   Together they explore: How Eugene Peterson reshaped her understanding of ministry The struggle to experience God while leading a church Why personal piety and social justice belong together The dangers of a purely “therapeutic” model of ministry What it means to believe in a real, active God today Navigating faith across evangelical and progressive divides Why pastors must protect time for prayer and reading Katherine Willis Pershey serves as co-pastor of First Congregational UCC Appleton, Wisconsin, having previously served congregations in Illinois and California. She is the author of Very Married: Field Notes on Love and Fidelity and co-author of Love Letters to God, and is a regular contributor to the Christian Century. She received a DMin from the Eugene Peterson Center for Christian Imagination at Western Theological Seminary in 2024.    Mentioned Resources:

This guide covers the four Revised Common Lectionary readings for the Fifth Sunday of Easter, Year A (May 3, 2026). The week's texts circle around two related questions: * what does it look like to trust God when everything is falling apart, and * what is the community of faith being built into? Stephen dies praying for his killers. The psalmist says their times are in God's hands. First Peter calls the church a living temple still under construction. And Jesus, the night before his own death, tells his frightened friends not to let their hearts be troubled.The ReadingsActs 7:55–60The First Lesson — The Stoning of StephenSummaryStephen has just finished a long speech before the Jewish council in Jerusalem — a retelling of Israel's history that ends with a sharp accusation: the council has done what their ancestors did and resisted the Holy Spirit. The crowd is furious. But Stephen, filled with the Spirit, looks up and says he can see heaven open and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God. That is the final straw. They rush at him, drag him out of the city, and stone him. As they do, Stephen prays two prayers: one asking Jesus to receive his spirit, and one asking God not to hold this sin against his attackers. He says the second one kneeling down, and then he dies. The text notes in passing that a young man named Saul is standing there, approving of the execution.Key Ideas for Preaching1. Stephen's final prayers are direct echoes of Jesus on the cross — committing his spirit to God and asking forgiveness for those killing him. This is not coincidence in the telling of the story. We can explore what it means to die the way Jesus died, and how that kind of dying becomes a form of witness.2. The vision of the Son of Man standing — not seated — at the right hand of God is worth pausing on. In most other texts the image is of Jesus seated. Here he is standing, as if rising to receive Stephen. That small detail carries significant pastoral warmth. God is not indifferent to what is happening.3. Saul is introduced with chilling brevity: he was there and he approved. This one sentence sets up one of the most important turning points in the whole book of Acts. We may want to use this moment to reflect on how proximity to events — even terrible ones — plants seeds whose growth we cannot predict.4. Stephen's prayer for his killers puts forgiveness in the most extreme possible context. This is not forgiving a minor slight. It's an honest struggle to ask how hard this is, without making it sound like a simple requirement. What enables someone to pray this way? The text points to what Stephen was seeing.Significant Cautions⚠ Stephen's speech leading up to this passage includes pointed criticism of the Jerusalem leadership, and it has historically been used to fuel anti-Jewish sentiment. Preachers should be careful to locate the conflict within an internal first-century Jewish debate, not as a universal verdict on Jewish people or Judaism as a whole.⚠ Martyrdom accounts can be preached in ways that romanticize or even encourage suffering and death. Be careful not to hold Stephen up as someone to imitate in a way that suggests his death was straightforwardly good or desirable. The text mourns his death even as it honors his faithfulness.⚠ The mention of Saul's approval is easy to treat as mere scene-setting. But it deserves to be named honestly: the same person who would later write much of the New Testament participated in this killing. That is uncomfortable, and it should be. There's something here (or coming) about what it means to be truly converted.Psalm 31:1–5, 15–16The Psalm — Refuge in CrisisSummaryThis psalm is a cry for help from someone in serious trouble — pursued by enemies, trapped, and frightened. The speaker turns to God as a place to hide, a strong fortress, and the one who can pull them out of the net that has been set for them. Verses 15 and 16 reach the heart of the psalm's trust: ‘My times are in your hand.' Whatever is happening, and however little control the speaker has over it, God holds the clock. The psalm ends with a plea for God's face to shine and for deliverance to come.Key Ideas for Preaching1. The phrase ‘my times are in your hand' is one of the most quietly powerful statements of trust in the Psalter. It does not claim that everything will turn out fine. It claims that the one who holds time is trustworthy. We can open up the difference between those two things for a congregation.2. Paired with the death of Stephen, this psalm gives language for what it might feel like to face mortal danger with faith intact. Stephen's vision and his prayers suggest someone who had already internalized something like this psalm — not that death is easy, but that God holds what we cannot hold ourselves.3. The image of God as a rock, a fortress, and a hiding place is physical and concrete. God is not an abstraction here but a place to go. We may well ask: what does it look like in practice to run to God rather than away from difficulty?Significant Cautions⚠ The psalm's language about enemies is vivid and personal. In the context of worship, be thoughtful about how ‘enemies' is interpreted. The text is not an invitation to name specific people as targets of divine punishment — it is the prayer of someone overwhelmed, using the language available to them.⚠ Verse 5 — ‘Into your hand I commit my spirit' — is the verse Jesus quotes from the cross in Luke's Gospel. It is also traditionally used at the time of death. If preached alongside the Stephen text, be aware that this verse may carry deep weight for people in the congregation who are grieving or facing serious illness.1 Peter 2:2–10The Epistle — Living StonesSummaryThe letter calls its readers to crave the word the way newborn babies crave milk — purely, instinctively, urgently. They have already tasted that the Lord is good, and that taste should create appetite, not satisfaction. The passage then builds a picture of the church as a living temple, not made of cut stone, but of people — each a living stone being built into something together. Christ is the cornerstone, the one the builders rejected but whom God placed at the foundation. Those who trust in him will not be put to shame. And those who belong to this community are named in layered, rich terms: a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God's own people — called out of darkness into remarkable light.Key Ideas for Preaching1. The image of spiritual milk and growing appetite is unusual and worth dwelling on. Many people in a congregation have lost the hunger they once had for Scripture, prayer, or worship. The text does not scold them for this — it invites them to taste again and see what happens. We could use this image to reopen a conversation about spiritual hunger without making people feel guilty for being dry.2. The ‘living stones' image is a genuinely striking way to describe the church. Each person is a stone — not decorative, but structural. The building does not hold together without each one. This gives a theological grounding to the practical reality that every person in the congregation matters.3. The string of titles in verses 9–10 — chosen, royal, holy, God's own — were originally applied to Israel in the Hebrew scriptures and are here applied to the church, a community that includes Gentiles. We may need to help the congregation hear these not as credentials they earned but as a description of who God has made them. The emphasis falls on what they were called to do: proclaim the mighty acts of the one who called them.4. The cornerstone that the builders rejected is a direct reference to Psalm 118, which Jesus applied to himself. The image connects back to Stephen's death and forward to what the church is being built into. Rejection is not the end of the story.Significant Cautions⚠ The titles in verses 9–10 — ‘chosen race,' ‘holy nation,' and so on — have been used to justify religious exclusivism or even nationalism. We want to be clear that these are descriptions of a community defined by calling and trust, not by ethnicity, culture, or any human marker of identity.⚠ The use of Israel's titles for the church has a complicated history in relation to Jewish-Christian relations. This text has sometimes been read as suggesting the church has replaced Israel. We want to avoid that reading and instead note that the letter is drawing on a shared inheritance, not canceling it.⚠ The ‘newborn infants' image for spiritual hunger can be misread as a call for people to remain permanently childlike in their faith — dependent, unquestioning, always needing to be fed. The context makes clear this is about appetite and receptivity, not permanent immaturity.John 14:1–14The Gospel — The Way, the Truth, and the LifeSummaryJesus is at the table with his disciples on the night before he dies, and he is trying to prepare them for what is coming. He tells them not to let their hearts be troubled — he is going to prepare a place for them, and he will come back and take them to be with him. Thomas pushes back honestly: they do not know where he is going, so how can they know the way? Jesus answers with one of the most famous lines in John's Gospel: he is the way, the truth, and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through him. Philip then asks to be shown the Father, and Jesus responds with some surprise: after all this time, Philip still does not recognize that seeing Jesus is seeing the Father. The passage ends with a promise: whoever trusts in Jesus will do the works he has done, and even greater ones, because he is going to the Father.Key Ideas for Preaching1. This passage opens with a pastoral word: ‘Do not let your hearts be troubled.' Jesus says this to people who are about to go through the worst night of their lives. It is not a command to suppress grief or pretend things are fine — it is an invitation to locate their trust somewhere steady. We can help people sit with that distinction carefully.2. Thomas's question is one of the most honest moments in the Gospels. (Why we called him “Honest Thomas” a few weeks ago!) He does not pretend to understand. He says plainly: we do not know where you are going. Jesus does not scold him. He answers. We can use Thomas here to give the congregation permission to ask the questions they are actually carrying.3. The claim ‘I am the way, the truth, and the life' is one of the most contested verses in John's Gospel. We want to address it directly rather than skipping past its difficulty. It is worth exploring what Jesus means by ‘way' — not a set of rules, but a person to follow — before moving to what is claimed about the Father. I still like what Eugene Peterson had to say (at length) on this matter:We can't suppress the Jesus way in order to sell the Jesus truth. The Jesus way and the Jesus truth must be congruent. Only when the Jesus way is organically joined with the Jesus truth do we get the Jesus life.”― Eugene H. Peterson, The Jesus Way: A Conversation on the Ways That Jesus Is the Way4. Philip's request — ‘show us the Father and that will be enough for us' — is deeply human. Most people in the congregation have, at some point, wanted exactly that: a clear, unambiguous sight of God. Jesus' answer is that they have already been given it. 5. The promise that believers will do ‘greater works' than Jesus is genuinely puzzling and often glossed over. It is worth addressing honestly. The clue is in the reason Jesus gives: he is going to the Father. The resurrection and the Spirit's coming make possible a wider reach than Jesus' own earthly ministry had. This is not about individual superpowers — it is about a community continuing a movement.Significant Cautions⚠ The verse ‘no one comes to the Father except through me' has been used as a blunt instrument in conversations about salvation and who is included or excluded. We should engage it honestly rather than either avoiding it or using it to draw sharp lines around other religious traditions. The context is pastoral — Jesus is comforting grieving disciples, not issuing a theological boundary statement.⚠ The ‘many dwelling places' in the Father's house has been heavily freighted with speculation about heaven and the afterlife. The text does not describe what those dwelling places look like. Be careful to resist the temptation to fill in what the text leaves open, and instead focus on the promise itself: there is room, and Jesus is preparing it.⚠ The claim that seeing Jesus is seeing the Father is one of John's deepest theological commitments. It is also easily misread as making Jesus and the Father identical in every way. The Gospel itself maintains distinction alongside unity. We do not need to resolve this fully, but we should not flatten it either.Thematic ConnectionsThe thread running through all four readings this week is trust in the face of things we cannot control. Stephen cannot stop what is happening to him, but he can choose what he does with his final moments — and he chooses prayer. The psalmist cannot see how their situation will resolve, but they name their trust in the one who holds their times. First Peter tells a scattered, vulnerable community that they are being built into something that will last. And John 14 begins with Jesus telling his closest friends not to let fear run the show.John 14 is the natural center for preaching this week — it is rich and wide enough for a full sermon on its own. But Acts 7 offers a powerful alternative angle: what does trust look like not in a quiet moment of reflection but in the worst moment of a life? A preacher willing to sit in that question without resolving it too quickly will find a great deal to work with. The psalm and First Peter can serve as supporting voices in either direction.Narrative LectionaryThis guide covers the Narrative Lectionary reading for the Fifth Sunday of Easter, Year 4 (May 3, 2026). The primary text is Paul's sermon in Athens — one of the most unusual moments in Acts, where Paul finds himself in the middle of a philosophically sophisticated city full of altars to gods he does not recognize. Rather than leading with condemnation, he starts with what he finds and builds from there. The supplemental verses from John 1 name what Paul is ultimately pointing toward: the God whom no one has seen has been made known in Jesus Christ, from whose fullness we have all received grace upon grace.The ReadingActs 17:16–31The Primary Text — Paul's Sermon at AthensSummaryPaul arrives in Athens while waiting for his companions and finds himself deeply unsettled by how many idols fill the city. He begins debating in the synagogue with Jews and God-fearers, and then in the public square with anyone who will listen. Some Epicurean and Stoic philosophers encounter him and bring him to the Areopagus — Athens' formal court of intellectual and civic life — to explain this new teaching they keep hearing about. They note, somewhat dismissively, that he seems to be talking about foreign gods. Paul stands up and starts not with an attack but with an observation: he can see that the Athenians are very religious people. He even found an altar inscribed ‘To an Unknown God.' That, he says, is exactly what he has come to tell them about.Paul then speaks in terms his audience can follow. The God who made the world does not live in temples made by human hands and does not need anything from us — God is the one who gives life and breath to everything. God made every nation from one source and set the boundaries of where they live, so that people everywhere might search for God and perhaps find him, though God is not actually far from any of us. Paul even quotes their own poets: ‘In him we live and move and have our being,' and ‘We are his offspring.' If we are God's offspring, then God cannot be made of gold or silver or stone shaped by human imagination. God has overlooked the times of ignorance, but now calls everyone everywhere to turn around, because a day of judgment is coming. The judge has been appointed — and God raised him from the dead as proof. At the mention of resurrection, some laugh, some want to hear more, and a few believe.Key Ideas for Preaching1. Paul does not open by telling the Athenians they are wrong. He opens by telling them he has been looking at what they have built and finds them genuinely religious. The altar to an unknown god is his starting point, not an object of ridicule. This is a remarkable model of how to enter a conversation with people outside the faith — starting with what is already there rather than what is missing.2. The God Paul describes is not contained in any building, does not need anything, and is already close to every human being. This is a picture of God that cuts against every form of religious gatekeeping. Preachers can ask: how does a congregation hold this truth — that God is not far from anyone — alongside a commitment to proclaiming Jesus specifically?3. Paul quotes the Athenians' own poets back to them. He finds truth about God already present in their tradition and uses it as a bridge. This is a rare moment in Acts, and it raises a genuinely important question for preachers: where do we see true things about God showing up outside the walls of the church? How do we engage those places?4. The audience splits at the mention of resurrection. Some laugh, some want to hear more, some believe. Paul does not chase the laughers or try to convince the skeptical. He states what he came to say and lets people respond as they will. (He has spoken his piece and counted to three, so to speak.) 5. The sermon ends with a call to turn around — the same basic movement as every other proclamation in Acts, just dressed in different clothes. The framework is cultural and philosophical rather than scriptural, but the destination is the same. Preachers can explore what it looks like to say the same essential thing to very different audiences without simply giving the same sermon.Significant Cautions⚠ It is tempting to use this passage as a simple endorsement of cultural engagement or interfaith dialogue. The passage is more complicated than that — Paul is genuinely troubled by the idols around him, and his sermon ends with a clear call to leave them behind. A sermon that only celebrates Paul's openness without noting where he still draws a line will miss the tension the text holds.⚠ The phrase ‘times of ignorance God overlooked' has sometimes been read as dismissive of all non-Christian religious practice before the gospel arrived. That reading oversimplifies. The text is pointing toward a shift in how God is acting in the world, not making a sweeping judgment about the sincerity or value of other people's religious lives.⚠ Be careful about using this passage to suggest that all religions are ultimately saying the same thing and pointing to the same God. Paul does not say that. He finds a point of contact, and then he redirects. The altar to the unknown god is a starting point, not an ending point. Those two moves need to be kept together.⚠ The mixed response at the end — laughter, curiosity, belief — can be used to prepare congregations for the reality that not everyone will respond to the gospel. That is legitimate and worth naming. But be careful not to use the laughers as a way of dismissing skeptical people in the congregation or culture as simply closed-minded. Intellectual doubt is not the same thing as hardness of heart.John 1:16–18The Supplemental Text — Grace upon GraceSummaryThese three verses come from the prologue of John's Gospel — the opening hymn that sets up everything the Gospel will say about who Jesus is. From his fullness, the writer says, we have all received grace upon grace. The law came through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has ever seen God, but the only Son, who is close to the Father's heart, has made God known. It is a compressed statement about what the incarnation actually accomplished: a full, overflowing gift, and a revelation of God that no one could have accessed any other way.Key Ideas for Preaching1. Placed alongside Paul's sermon at Athens, these verses clarify what Paul is ultimately pointing toward. He finds the unknown God in the Athenians' own altar and works outward from there. John 1 names what has now been made known: the God whom no one has seen has been revealed in the person of Jesus. The supplemental text gives Paul's proclamation its destination.2. The phrase ‘grace upon grace' — sometimes translated ‘grace in place of grace' — suggests not just a one-time gift but a continuing, layered generosity. There is always more. Preachers can use this image to speak to people who feel they have used up their portion of God's patience or kindness, or who are afraid that what they have received is all there will be.3. The contrast between Moses and Jesus in verse 17 is not a dismissal of the law — it is a statement about what has now been added. Grace and truth have arrived in a person, not just a set of instructions. Preachers can explore what it means that the fullest revelation of God is not a document or a system but a life.Significant Cautions⚠ The contrast between Moses and Jesus has a long and painful history of being used to set Christianity against Judaism — as if the law was a failed experiment that grace replaced. That reading distorts both testaments. The law was itself a gift of grace; what John describes is addition and fulfillment, not replacement and rejection.⚠ The claim that Jesus has made God known in a way no one else has can sound like a dismissal of all other religious experience or understanding of God. Preachers should present it as a statement about the particularity and depth of what God has done in Christ, not as a verdict that nothing true about God has ever been known anywhere else.Thematic ConnectionsBoth texts this week move in the same direction: from searching toward finding, from not knowing toward being shown. Paul stands in a city full of altars to gods that no one can quite name, and he points toward the one who has now been made known. John 1 names what that making-known actually looks like: the fullness of God, given in a person, producing grace upon grace. Paul's sermon at Athens is the proclamation; John's prologue is its theological ground. Together they describe a gospel that meets people in their reaching and brings them to something specific.The Acts passage is rich enough for a full sermon. A preacher could focus on Paul's method — starting with what is already there — or on what he says about the nature of God, or on the mixed response at the end. The John verses work best as a brief anchor, either opening the sermon with a statement of what Paul is ultimately pointing toward, or closing with it as a final word about what ‘making God known' actually means. Either placement gives the sermon a theological center that the Athens scene alone does not quite provide. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit lectionarypro.substack.com/subscribe

Vandag saam met SG ⁠10:00 Erediens, Kinderbediening begin! ⁠11:15 Boerie-braai, as jy nie geRSVP het nie, kom kuier en eet steeds saam, daar is altyd genoeg om te deel! ⁠17:00 Tienerkerk in die Klubhuis In 'n gesprek met Eugene Peterson oor die opstanding vra hulle vir hom wat oortuig hom van die opstanding. Sy antwoord, twee dinge: “Simply Jesus…” en “I've seen it too many times, not to believe it.” Dadelik maak dit die opstanding soveel wyer, groter, dieper — soveel meer tasbaar en minder abstrak as wat ek nog altyd gedink het. Dit laat jou wonder “Waar het ek onlangs die opstanding, die nuwe God-bedoelde lewe, in lewende lywe gesien of ervaar?” Kom gee die eerste tree saam met ons in die nuwe reeks “Herken die opstanding”. … Luister hier na die klankopname of op die potgooi-platform van jou keuse. . . Of kyk hier saam:

This is a bit different for us here at The Book podcast. We review the message student devotional Bible which was written by Eugene Peterson back in the 70s. It has been updated for students as we see in the title it calls itself a devotional. We review the book to see how it fares as a Bible to be used by teens. It is not a word for word translation but a dynamic equivalent. In other words, it is a paraphrasing commentary on the Bible. Gabriel and I discuss this usage and adaptability in order to reach those who might not be familiar with the text. Maybe because of our age difference we come to different conclusions that we will leave for you to see in the recording.We, Scott and Gabe, need to know if you guys like the content. Honestly though, every like, subscribe, and follow shows us that our conversations are helping you. We are on YouTube, Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, Anchor, and any podcasting platform. Support us on every platform below! #hearthebookpodhttps://www.amazon.com/Message-Deluxe-Gift-Bible-Contemporary/dp/1631465805/ref=sr_1_9?sr=8-9Instagram: @hearthebookpodBuy Me a Coffee: https://www.buymeacoffee.com/hearthebookpodYouTube: https://youtube.com/channel/UC8AAn7YxgYVoWa7RmeojyFQFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/hearthebookpod/Twitter: https://twitter.com/hearthebookpodAnchor: https://anchor.fm/hearthebookpodThank you to Brook Sprague and Michael Card for their music in our podcast!https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCvI-t0MK5kgMJw7REobBCbQSong: The BookID: 362574Writers: Michael CardPublishers: Mole End Music

A short bonus episode where CPT fellow Matt Erickson shares two formative books for his ministry—Eugene Peterson's Working the Angles and Tim Keller's Preaching—highlighting how they shape his approach to prayer, Scripture, pastoral care, and effective preaching.

Infinitely More than We can Ask or Imagine Ephesians 3:14-21 by William Klock Eugene Peterson, one of my seminary professors, used to tell the story of a little Haitian girl named Addie.  She was an orphan.  When she was five, she was adopted by an American family.  This man and woman travelled to Haiti to pick her up.  As they walked toward the plane to go home, little Addie reach up and slipped her hands into the hands of these two strangers she'd never met before. In that moment, they became Mom and Dad.  In that moment, this scared little girl put her fearless trust in these loving strangers. That evening, back home, they all sat down to dinner.  There were heaps of pork chops and mashed potatoes and Addie watched, wide-eyed, as everyone dug in—and particularly as her two teenaged brothers dug in and dug in and dug in—until there was nothing left.  She'd never seen so much food before and she'd never seen people eat so much.  And when it was gone, Addie became very quiet.  Mom and Dad realized something was wrong.  And it occurred to Mom that it was the disappearing food.  This little girl had lived her whole life hungry.  When food was gone, it was gone and it might be a day or more before there was more.  And so she took Addie to the kitchen and she showed her the bread drawer, which was full of bread; and she showed her the refrigerator, which was full of milk and eggs and vegetables and meat; and she took her to the pantry and showed her bins full of potatoes and onion and shelves of canned goods.  She showed Addie that no matter how much her hungry teenage brothers ate, there would always be plenty of food and she would never go hungry again.  And notice, that Mother didn't just tell Addie she'd never have to worry about going hungry again.  She showed her.  She named the meats in the fridge and the ice cream in the freezer; she let her handle the potatoes and the cans of soup.  She gave Addie confidence and reason to trust.[1] Or as Paul has said to us in Ephesians 3, “confidence and access” (v. 12) to the “Messiah's riches, riches no one could begin to count” (v. 8).  None of it was ours—or the Ephesians'—by birth.  We—and they—are gentiles.  The promises of God, the Messiah, those things belonged to Israel.  And yet, Paul has stressed over and over, the great mystery revealed in Jesus the Messiah is that through him, God has welcomed everyone—Jew and gentile alike—whoever believes—into the inheritance of Israel and into the vast riches of Israel's God: forgiveness of sins and a promise of life, both for us, but also for the whole creation, one day to be renewed, made new, resurrected as Jesus has been, to be what God created it, created us to be in the beginning.  The world set to rights and us, living forever in fellowship with God. That is good news.  And those gentile believers in Ephesus—and we—we're captivated by that good news, by the promise, and we slip our grubby, sinful, idolatrous little hands into the hands of the Messiah and he washes us clean, he introduces us to his—now our—Father, and he begins to lead us home.  Not on an airplane for a short little hop across the Caribbean, but a lot more like Israel being led through the wilderness for forty years—only this time the promised land is God's future, his new creation.  And maybe it's because we didn't see for ourselves the army of Pharaoh drowned in the sea, maybe it's because we never experienced the manna in the wilderness, but when the journey gets difficult—Paul knew that times of persecution were coming—but when the journey gets difficult, it's easy to worry whether God will come through—whether there will be enough.  It's easy to hedge our bets and to compromise—trusting in the things of this world to see us through the hard times rather than trusting God and letting him lead us.  It's even easy to let go of his hand altogether.  To just go back to Egypt—or in our case, to paganism, to the rule of the principalities and powers of the old wicked age.  Things are familiar there.  It might have been bad, but at least there was food.  Paul knew these Christians would one day face uncertainty, he knew they'd be tempted to compromise their faith and their allegiance to the King, and he knew that if they did that, they'd fail to be the church Jesus and the Spirit had made them.  They'd become just like the shabby and drab world around them instead of shining forth the Technicolor glory of the God who indwelt them and the wonders of his new creation.  So knowing that, what does Paul do?  Brothers and Sisters, he prays for them.  Look at Ephesians 3:14: “Because of this,” he writes, “I am kneeling down before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth is named.  My prayer is this: that through the riches of his glory, he may grant you to be strengthened with power, through his Spirit, in your inner being; that the Messiah may make his home in your hearts through faith; that you may be rooted and firmly founded in love; and that you may be fully able to grasp, with all the saints, the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the surpassing love of the Messiah, so that God may fill you with all his fullness.” Maybe we should start at the end of the prayer—with the thing that Paul wants most for the Ephesians and for us—the thing that he's praying all the other things will lead us to.  He prays that God will fill us with all his fullness.  Remember, that language of filling is temple language.  That's what Paul's been talking about all this time.  We are God's temple.  The blood of Jesus has purified us from our idolatry and from the stain of sin and death so that God can come and dwell in us through his Spirit.  And just as God's glory shone from the old temple on Mount Zion, revealing his presence with his people, just so God wants his glory to shine forth from us, from the church.  We don't just proclaim the good news about renewal and new life and new creation and resurrection in Jesus.  Brother and Sisters, we're to live it. We're to be the beginning of God's new creation in the midst of the old. And Paul knows this won't be easy.  It wasn't easy for Israel on her journey and neither will it be easy for us.  So,, ack to verse 14: He gets on his knees and he prays.  We'd do well to do the same, probably even the kneeling part. You can pray sitting or standing or walking or riding a bike, but this got me to thinking about kneeling. It's not mandatory, but I wonder if it would do us well to kneel more often.  Our tradition is to kneel when we pray in church and I know we don't do that here because we don't have kneelers and, even if we did, God bless the Presbyterians who made our pews a hundred and fifty years ago, but they made them so that only a child's feet can fit underneath them without major contortions.  But maybe we need to kneel—at least in our private prayers—more often.  I don't often read Eugene Peterson.  I'm just not on his wavelength.  To quote Eugene Peterson again: “While on my knees I cannot run away.  I cannot assert myself.  I place myself in a position of willed submission…On my knees I am no longer in a position to flex my muscles, strut or cower, hide in the shadows or show off on stage…I set my agenda aside for a time and become still, present to God.”[2] Prayer is the place where we come to the Father as adopted sons and daughters, reach up, and trustingly place our hands in his.  And maybe it would do us good, when we pray, to put ourselves in a posture where that's all we can do, knowing just how prone we are to running away or cowering in fear or showing off.  As we kneel, we empty ourselves, and with Paul, we pray that God will fill us up.  Again, the point of our being filled is to shine forth God's glory, but what we're filled with to make that happen is God's love.  In verse 15 Paul starts out appealing to God as Father—the one in whom every family in heaven and on earth is named.  In verse 17, it's the love that fills our hearts, that is the root of the great tree, and the foundation of the temple itself.  I expect, if he wanted to, Paul could just keep piling metaphor on metaphor to describe the riches of God's love, because he wants us to know that it's in knowing God's love that the church will find the power to be what God has called us to be.  Would that we would remember that.  How often have we put something else in the place of love?  There are all sorts of things that are important to our being the church.  There are all sorts of things that are even essential to being the church.  But without love at the centre, without love as our taproot, without love as our foundation, we will never be the church that Jesus and the Spirit want us to be.  Think of Paul's exhortation to the Corinthians.  They were a church full of spiritual gifts.  The people were doing amazing and astounding things in the name of Jesus.  But Paul writes to them and says, “Without love, it's nothing.  Without love, you might as well be a clanging cymbal, a bashing gong.”  You Canadians might say that the church in Corinth was a “gong show”, because it wasn't built on love.  Without love as the root and foundation, it's all for nought.  Without love, there is no glory. This is what Paul's getting at when he prays: “that through the riches of his glory, he may grant you to be strengthened with power, through his Spirit, in your inner being.”  Paul wants us to see the riches of God's glory laid out for us.  Like little Addie going to the kitchen to look in the refrigerator and the pantry, to see the bacon, to see the ice cream, to see that big bag of potatoes, to handle the cans of soup.  To know those riches and to know that she has no reason to be afraid anymore.  To know not just that she's been adopted into this family, but to know that its riches are now and fully her riches.  This is what Paul wants for us.  To see the riches of God's love, to experience the riches of God's Spirit, and to know that we belong to him.  We are his people, his family, his sons and daughters—and to know it in our inner being, deep down, where it shapes who we know ourselves to be.  Brothers and Sisters, to know that new creation is our inheritance. And somehow, it's in this community called the church, this community that brings together everyone, people who are different, Jews and gentiles, men and women, rich and poor, slave and free—Canadian and American, native and immigrant, Conservative and New Democrat, young and old, homebody and adventurer, Star Wars and Star Trek, Coke and Pepsi, Ford and Chevy, introvert and extrovert—somehow in this community in which we're brought together, so different, and yet united in the Messiah, made one body, and our life together is dependent on these people so many of whom are so, so different from us, it's here that we begin to plumb the unplumbable height and depths of God's love. Plumbing the heights and depths is an image that weaves its way from the Prophets all the way through to the end of the story in Revelation.  Think of the Prophet Zechariah, who exhorted the people of Judah to rebuild the temple after they returned to Jerusalem from their Babylonian exile.  But there was more to it than the earthly temple.  Zechariah had a vision in which a man was measuring the whole city and his measuring became a promise—a promise of a temple and a city even greater, one that no wall could contain, one in which the Lord would dwell with his people and become the wall himself.  Ezekiel has a similar—and much longer—vision in which he measures the new temple—a new temple larger and greater and more awesome than anything that had ever stood on Mount Zion and that image from Ezekiel is then picked up by John in Revelation.  To plumb the height and depth and width of God's love is to know, to grow to understand God's purposes for us as his new temple. It's interesting, because Paul has already written about this new temple as being full of the wisdom of God—like a storehouse for the nations, for new creation.  And that's something Job talks about: the wisdom of God, longer than the earth and broader than the sea.  In Sirach, in the Apocrypha, the great sage envisions Wisdom herself, coming to live in the temple.  He knew the world is not as it should be; he knew his people, Israel, were not as they should be; they needed God's wisdom to set them to rights—and it would start, it would flow forth from the temple as a show of God's glory.  This is who God wants us to be, through the Messiah: people who know God's wisdom, people who embody his new creation in the midst of the old.  A people full of light and life in the midst of darkness and death.  A people who will challenge the principalities and powers of the old age by our very existence.  A people who will proclaim God's glory to the ends of the earth. Think again of Paul's line of thought so far.  One of the difficulties of peaching just a little piece or half a chapter of a letter like this week by week is that we lose sight of the bigger picture or bigger argument.  But remember back to Chapter 1.  I said last week, if we want to understand Ephesians, just look at the “tens”.  Chapter 1, verse 10, Paul stressed that it is—and always has been—God's plan to unite heaven and earth.  That's how he created the cosmos to be in the first place: heaven and earth overlapping; he and humans living together; he, sharing his love and his life with us.  And ever since we sinned and drove a wedge between ourselves and God, he's been working to make us fit again for his presence.  And so he's sent, he's given his Messiah—to bring it all back together, to embody new creation himself: God and man, heaven and earth united in one person.  And then, in 1:23, Paul wrote that the church is the Messiah's body and—it still amazes me to read it—the church is the fullness of the one who fills all in all.  Remember, that language of filling and being full of God's presence, that's temple language.  And then in 2:23, Paul told us that it's through the gift of God's Spirit who lives in us that God has begun to fulfil his promises to dwell with his people.  The church as God's temple is the signpost that points forward to God's future when that wedge will be completely withdrawn and heaven and earth, God and man restored to each other. And this is why Paul stresses, why he says it's so essential the church be filled with God's fullness.  Our being the temple, our being filled with the presence and love and glory of God, is the witness to his promise to one day flood all of creation with the knowledge of his glory.  I think Paul wants us to hear Isaiah 11 echoing in his words here.  Remember we looked at Isaiah 11 back when we looked at Ephesians 1.  That was Isaiah's prophecy of the coming King.  Under his wise rule the wolf and the lamb will lie down together at peace and the whole earth will be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord as the waters cover the sea.  And so Paul prays that in our prayer, in our worship, in our life as the church, we may already know the reality of all this so that we might live, not just in hope of God's future, but as people actively pulling God's future into the here and now. Now, think again of little Addie.  She'd never seen a refrigerator or a freezer or a pantry full of food.  That kind of plenty was beyond her imagination.  And that's how God's riches were for those gentile Ephesian believers.  They knew that the world is not as it should be.  We all know that in our bones.  Like Addie surely knew that it's not good to be hungry.  But what's the solution?  And, if God is going to set things to rights, what will that even look like?  We've had a glimpse.  We've known the gift that God has given us in his son, who has given his life to purify us from our sins.  We've known the gift of his Spirit, whom he's poured into us to give us a taste of renewal and new creation and life together with him.  And if we've listened to the story of God and his people we've heard of the garden, heard of the temple in which his presence once dwelled, we've heard of the exodus and Pharaoh's water-logged chariots, and the manna in the wilderness.  We've read John's Revelation and had a glimpse of the end of the story, even if only in symbols and its full glory veiled.  We've seen the kitchen and the pantry stocked with food.  And yet that's only the beginning.  It's only a hint of what's to come.  And so Paul prays again in verses 20 and 21: “To the one who is capable of doing far more than we can ask or imagine, granted the power which is working in us, to him be glory, in the church and in Messiah Jesus, to all generations, and to the ages of ages!  Amen.” Brothers and Sisters, God's glory isn't just to be revealed in the future.  It's here and it's now and he means for it to be revealed in us, his church, in the same way he's revealed it in Jesus.  Whatever vision we have of the church, Brothers and Sisters, God's vision for us is bigger and wider and deeper and higher and greater than we can ever ask or imagine.  C. S. Lewis once preached a now famous sermon on the “weight of glory”.  That's where he rebukes us saying that we are far too easily pleased.  We're like children, happily making mud pies in a slum, when we've been offered a grand holiday at the sea.  “We are half-hearted creatures,” he says, “fooling about with drink and sex and ambition when infinite joy is offered us.”  And maybe we've progressed a bit in the church, but we're all too often still obsessed with politics or denominational divisions or even otherwise good things like theology.  But not love.  It's funny how we can centre ourselves even on all the good things that revolve around the love God, but somehow miss the need ourselves to be centred on that gospel love. We need to be captivated by the gospel, by Jesus, by his cross and by his resurrection and by his ascension.  We need to be captivated by the life of the Spirit into which we've been plunged.  We need to be captivated by the promise of new creation, even though we'll forever struggle to envision it this side of eternity.  We need to be captivated by God's glory, because he doesn't just call us to be spectators to it.  No. He's called us into the story.  He's led us in our own exodus, from slavery to sin and death so that we—as fickle and confused and anxious as we often are—should live in the here and now, learning to be plumb the heights and depths of his love so that we might make his glory known in the earth.  As inadequate as we may feel, we are his poiema, his workmanship, his grand and glorious piece of art, painted with the blood of his son and shining forth the glory of his Spirit. This what he's saved us for.  To be the vanguard of new creation, making known his glory.  And if that's scary or overwhelming, Paul reminds us that the very one who has saved us is capable of doing infinitely more than we can ask or imagine.  In other words, the fridge and the pantry are full of more food than we can ever imagine.  This is our God.  So come to the Lord's Table this morning and as you join with your brothers and sisters to eat the bread and drink the wine, be reminded of the infinite riches of love in our Father's house.  Look back to the cross and look forward to his promises, know the life of his Spirit, and in faith slip your hands into his and now that you are his son, you are his daughter, redeemed and renewed that you might know his love and shine forth his glory. Let's pray: Gracious Father, in our Collect today we acknowledged our sins and thanked you for the grace and mercy by which you have redeemed us and made us your own. Remind us always, we ask, of your great riches, that we might know the great height and depths and width of your unending love.  And not just know your love, but as we know it, that we might live it—to love you and to love each other and in doing so, to shine forth your glory and to make you known in the world. Through Jesus our Lord we pray.  Amen. [1] Practice Resurrection (Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 2010, 159-60. [2] Ibid., 154.

What’s the difference between knowing about God and truly being with God? In this episode, Alan reflects on a question at the heart of the Christian life: Are we formed more as scribes—accurate, informed, articulate—or as prophets—people shaped by lived communion with the living God? Drawing from voices like A. W. Tozer, Eugene Peterson, John of Ruusbroec, and Thomas H. Green, Alan explores the interior life Jesus invites us into—a life not marked by spiritual fireworks, but by learning to see ordinary life through the eyes of God. This conversation invites pastors, leaders, and everyday followers of Jesus to slow down, listen deeply, and allow prayerful attentiveness to shape not only what we say about God, but who we are becoming in his presence. Connect with Alan on LinkedIn or learn more about Unhurried Living programs on their website. Learn about PACE: Certificate in Leadership and Soul Care Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

In this episode of the The CPT Podcast, hosts Zachary Wagner and Joel Lawrence interview Matt Erickson about his path to pastoral ministry and the ideas behind his book The Pastor as Gardener. Erickson shares his conversion in high school, his formation at Wheaton College and Northern Theological Seminary, and how crises in ministry—including COVID-19 and church tensions—pushed him to rethink common leadership models. Drawing on Eugene Peterson and biblical imagery such as 1 Corinthians 3, he argues that pastors should see themselves as “gardeners” who cultivate conditions for growth while trusting God to produce the fruit, emphasizing spiritual formation, shared ministry, and long-term hope.

In this deeply grounding conversation, Sissy and David sit down with longtime mentor and educator Melissa Trevathan to talk about what kids need spiritually right now. Melissa shares that while children's core longings—to feel safe, loved, and significant—haven't changed, the intensity of anxiety and pressure has. She emphasizes that spiritual formation happens primarily through relationship, not instruction, and encourages parents to create safe, authentic spaces where kids can ask questions, wrestle with doubt, and experience God's grace rather than performance. From the power of storytelling and nature with younger kids to helping teens answer “Do I matter?” Resources mentioned: My First Message by Eugene Peterson . . . . . .  Sign up to receive the⁠ bi-⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠monthly newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ to keep up to date with where David and Sissy are speaking, where they are taco'ing, PLUS conversation starters for you and your family to share! Pre-order our new book, Capable and grab tickets for Capable - The Book Tour here! See our speaking dates, purchase books and check out our courses here.. . . . . .  If you would like to partner with Raising Boys and Girls as a podcast sponsor, fill out our⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Advertise With Us⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ form. QUINCE: Go to ⁠Quince.com/rbg⁠ for free shipping on your order and three hundred and sixty-five day returns. BOLL & BRANCH: Get 15% off plus free shipping on your first set of sheets at Bollandbranch.com/rbg⁠. Exclusions apply. ATHLETIC GREENS: Go to DRINKAG1.com/RBG to get their best offer… For a limited time only, get a FREE AG1 duffel bag and FREE AG1 Welcome Kit with your first subscription order! Only while supplies last. COOK UNITY: Go to cookunity.com/RBG or enter code RBG before checkout to get 50% off your first order. SETH AND THE VERY SCARY STORM: Go to https://tinyurl.com/RBGSethStorm to check out this Lifeway book. YARA THE BRAVE: Go to https://tinyurl.com/RBGYara to check out this Lifeway book. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What are you gazing at—and what are you only glancing at? In 2 Corinthians 3:1–18, Paul shows us how real change happens: not through self-effort, religious performance, or trying to prove ourselves, but through beholding the glory of God with an unveiled face. In Jesus, the veil is removed and we come face to face with God, and that encounter transforms us from one degree of glory to another. This message explores how the face of God gives us hope, boldness, and freedom as we live under the New Covenant of the Spirit.For more information about Integrity Church, visit our website, http://liveintegritychurch.org Connect with us on social media throughout the week to stay up to date on events and things happening at Integrity! Instagram: @integrity_church Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/liveintegrity/

Hope for Right Now Podcast – Encore Episode 3: When Everything Feels Out of Control There's an old Latin proverb that says, “Repetition is the mother of learning.” With that in mind, we are revisiting four of your favorite Hope for Right Now podcast episodes. Our prayer is that you would take some time to look back, and reflect on the ways you've grown in your relationship with God. We will return on February 23, 2026, with a new series based on our brand new Lenten devotional, Desert Bloom: Discovering Unexpected Joy in the Wilderness. When Everything Feels Out of Control was the first episode in our 2024 Lenten series. This is your third favorite episode of all time. It's such a great one to revisit, because it's all about trusting in God's provision—something we have all, at one point or another, struggled to believe. This is a special Encore Episode originally released in February 2024. The word translated “ascent” means “to go up.” It gives an idea of being on a journey, moving to a higher place spiritually. In this week's episode, Lisa and Laura dive into Psalm 121 and explore Scripture's response to when everything feels out of control. If you aren't convinced of God's protection or struggle to believe in His promises, you are in the right place. Join Lisa and Laura as they set our hearts on pilgrimage, unpacking today's Psalm and applying it to our daily lives.  Open your Heart to our key Scripture. Psalm 121:1-8. Open your Bible to other Scriptures referenced in this episode. Luke 1:28: The Lord is with you! John 16:33: In the world you have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world. Isaiah 43:2: When you pass through waters, I will be with you; through rivers, you shall not be swept away. When you walk through fire, you shall not be burned, nor will flames consume you.  Invite Him in with this episode's questions for reflection. When have you seen God show up for you as your keeper, your bodyguard, your sentry?  When has God been your shade, your protection, your shelter? Show mentions. Eugene Peterson, A Long Obedience in the Same Direction: Discipleship in an Instant Society Peter Kreeft, Wisdom of the Heart: The Good, the True, and the Beautiful at the Center of Us All Edward Sri, Walking with Mary: A Biblical Journey from Nazareth to the Cross Scott Hahn, Curtis Mitch, Rev. Dennis K. Walters, Ignatius Catholic Study Bible, The Book of the Psalms Lisa Brenninkmeyer, Praying From the Heart: Guided Prayer Journal Our presenting sponsor is Hallow. Hallow is the number one prayer and meditation app dedicated to helping you grow closer to God and find peace with thousands of guided prayers and meditations. As Lent approaches, Hallow invites you to join Pray40: The Return, a 40-day Lenten journey rooted in prayer, fasting, and almsgiving, inviting you into deeper conversion and a renewed return to the Father. Visit hallow.com/walkingwithpurpose to get 3 months of Hallow free. Come home this Lent.  Let's stay connected. Don't miss an episode. Subscribe to our podcast on your favorite platform.  Want to keep the conversation going? Join our private Facebook community. Stay in the know. Connect with us today.  We are committed to creating content that is free and easily accessible to every woman—especially the one looking for answers but unsure of where to go. If you've enjoyed this podcast, prayerfully consider making a donation to support it and other WWP outreach programs that bring women closer to Christ. Learn more about WWP on our website. Our shop. Follow us on Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube.

It's January, which means it's time for our annual team conversation — just Jason, Willy, and Dan talking about where we are, where the CRC is, and where we think things need to go.                                                                                      After life updates (Dan's upcoming sabbatical, Willy's new pastor in Pease, Jason's transition into school ministry), we dive into an honest assessment of the denomination's current state. Willy frames it well: the CRC has spent the last few years establishing what we're against, but now we're struggling to articulate what we actually stand for. That's the opposite of how our confessions work — they lead with affirmations, then denials. We've done it backwards.                                                                    The result? An unsettling quietness across the denomination. People are asking "now what?" and nobody has a clear answer. We talk about the temptation to start another fight just to rally the troops — and why that's exactly the wrong move. This is the rebuilding   phase. And rebuilding starts with identity.        Timestamps:                                                                                                                            - 0:00 — Intro                                                                                                                         - 2:47 — Dan's update: sabbatical, candidacy gathering, Quorum Deo Conference - 4:46 — Willy's update: new pastor at Pease, COD work, biennial synods, RCA dialogue committee                             - 7:13 — Jason's update: school ministry, teaching systematic theology, grieving Greg Zonnefeld          - 10:03 — The state of the CRC post-Synod 2025 - 11:04 — "We've established what we're against — now what do we stand for?"     - 14:09 — The Eugene Peterson story: what happens after you "win"  - 17:35 — Classis renewal and organizational challenges - 21:01 — The CRC's lack of vision                                                                                                     - 22:07 — Local church leadership vs. looking to denominational HQ     - 24:27 — How classes can share gifts and work together     - 31:24 — "What we're doing isn't working"     Join and support us on Substack: https://themessyreformation.com/                                                                      Check out the Abide Project: https://www.abideproject.org                                                                             Intro music by Matt Krotzer

As we continue to explore "missional discipleship," we now turn to the Gospel of John as a guide for practical disciple-making. We imitate Jesus, and in John 1:14, we are told that through the incarnation, Jesus was "among" us. Or, as Eugene Peterson once put it, He "moved into the neighborhood." 

Guiding Question: How can believers remain faithful and passionate in their walk with Christ from beginning to end, especially when facing hardship, cultural opposition, or spiritual fatigue? Summary: In this powerful and pastoral message, the speaker challenges Christians not just to begin well in their faith journey but to finish strong. Drawing from 2 Timothy 4:1–8, the sermon highlights Paul's final exhortations to Timothy, urging him to preach the Word, endure hardship, fulfill his ministry, and do the work of an evangelist. It offers a contrast between faithful endurance and spiritual dropout, emphasizing the value of perseverance and commitment in a world eager to embrace falsehood over truth. The message is both a call to spiritual endurance and a warning against cultural myths that divert believers from the truth. Using stories, illustrations, and scriptural insight, the speaker paints a vivid picture of a life fully poured out in service to God—encouraging all believers to evaluate where they stand and recommit to a long obedience in the same direction. Outline: I. Starting Strong in Ministry (2 Timothy 4:1–2) Charge to preach the Word Be ready in and out of season Reprove, rebuke, exhort with great patience II. Challenges to Faithfulness (2 Timothy 4:3–4) The time will come when people reject sound doctrine Desire for “ear-tickling” teaching Accumulation of false teachers according to personal desires Turning aside to myths III. Call to Endure and Fulfill Your Ministry (2 Timothy 4:5) Be sober-minded Endure hardship Do the work of an evangelist Fulfill your ministry IV. Examples of Faithful Finishing (2 Timothy 4:6–8) Paul's life as a drink offering “I have fought the good fight, finished the race, kept the faith” Anticipation of the crown of righteousness V. Contrast Between Starters and Finishers Many start strong but fall away The difficulty of sustaining enthusiasm and discipline Cultural distractions and spiritual attrition VI. Application and Encouragement Personal reflection on spiritual growth and perseverance Avoiding superficial Christianity Staying excited about the faith and sharing the gospel Learning from older saints who have finished well Key Takeaways: Preaching the gospel is often hard and may lead to rejection, but we are still called to be faithful. Evangelism is work, not just an occasional event left to professionals. The Christian life requires endurance, especially when truth becomes inconvenient or unpopular. Our culture increasingly rejects sound doctrine in favor of comfort and self-justification. Many drop out of faith not for intellectual reasons but because they refuse to change their lifestyle. Paul serves as a model of finishing strong, having kept the faith through trials and ultimately receiving the reward. Believers should strive not only for a passionate start but for a lifelong commitment that finishes well. Scriptural References: 2 Timothy 4:1–8 Acts 14:19–20 (Paul stoned at Lystra) Jeremiah 5:30–31 (False prophets and people's delight in lies) Isaiah 8:19 (Warning against seeking mediums instead of God) Romans 12:1 (Living sacrifices) Philippians 3:12–14 (Pressing on toward the goal) Romans 1:25 (Exchanging the truth for a lie) Eugene Peterson's book: A Long Obedience in the Same Direction Recorded 2/22/81

In this episode, pastors Clark Nunnelly and Hunter Beaumont join the podcast to discuss A Heart Aflame for God by Matthew Bingham and explore what “spiritual formation” means within a Reformed framework. They unpack Bingham's central claim that true spiritual formation is rooted in and fueled by Scripture and aimed at engaging the heart through the mind. They consider why many believers crave greater depth, how historic Reformed practices like Scripture reading, meditation, and prayer address that hunger, and why going deeper into Scripture is the path to lasting formation.Resources mentioned in this episode:A Heart Aflame for God: A Reformed Approach to Spiritual Formation by Matthew BinghamThe Divine Conspiracy: Rediscovering Our Hidden Life In God – The Masterful Guide to Apprenticing to Jesus and Authentic Christian Faith by Dallas WillardPracticing the Way: Be with Jesus. Become like him. Do as he did. by John Mark ComerAnswering God: The Psalms as a Tool for Prayer by Eugene PetersonCelebration of Discipline by Richard Foster

In this episode, Diana's special guest Jake Doberenz, founder of Theophany Media and host of the Creatively Christian podcast, shares his expertise on effective Bible study. The discussion covers essential principles of biblical interpretation, the importance of studying scripture in community, and approaches to understanding difficult passages. Listeners are also guided on selecting appropriate Bible translations and utilizing various online resources, ensuring a comprehensive and balanced approach to scripture study. The episode concludes with a prayer for listeners' spiritual journey and their engagement with the scriptures. Bio: Jake Doberenz isn't one thing. He identifies as a polymath, a Renaissance man, or a multipotentialite–one interest or specialty can't contain him. But enough of the third-person. I am a writer, speaker, minister, and creative thinker living in Oklahoma City, OK with my wife Samantha. My most significant role is the founder and president of Theophany Media, a Christian education company dedicated to helping Christians engage with culture through new media. I have earned my Master of Theological Studies at Oklahoma Christian University, the same place I earned my Bachelor's degree in Bible with a minor in Communication Studies. I also worked at my alma mater as a Resident Director and Bible TA. I write fiction and nonfiction in a variety of mediums, including poetry, short stories, books, stage plays, academic essays, and devotionals. I also venture out into other mediums, like podcasts and video. My favorite topics of choice to discuss and write about (though always changing) include: creating Christian art, helping people understand the Bible better, Christian identity, theology of social media, use of humor in faith messages, superheroes and theology, and a Christian response to culture. If you want to see his progress, achievements, and appearances sign up for the newsletter so you'll never miss an update! website: Home – Jake Doberenz 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 00:47 Welcome to the Podcast 01:44 Introducing the Guest: Jake Doberenz 02:43 Jake's Background and Interests 05:56 Jake's Teaching Journey 10:46 Bible Study for Abuse Survivors 13:25 Choosing the Right Bible Translation 18:42 Understanding the Bible Without Knowing Greek or Hebrew 21:34 Basic Rules of Bible Interpretation 25:43 Embracing Uncomfortable Bible Stories 26:47 Using Jesus as a Lens for Interpretation 30:54 The Importance of Community in Bible Study 34:14 Red Flags in Spiritual Leadership 37:02 Recommended Bible Study Resources 41:33 Exploring Different Perspectives 44:58 Connecting with the Speaker 46:29 Closing Prayer and Final Thoughts   Website: https://dswministries.org Subscribe to the podcast: https://dswministries.org/subscribe-to-podcast/ Social media links: Join our Private Wounds of the Faithful FB Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1603903730020136 Twitter: https://twitter.com/DswMinistries YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxgIpWVQCmjqog0PMK4khDw/playlists Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dswministries/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/DSW-Ministries-230135337033879 Keep in touch with me! Email subscribe to get my handpicked list of the best resources for abuse survivors! https://thoughtful-composer-4268.ck.page #abuse #trauma Affiliate links: Our Sponsor: 753 Academy: https://www.753academy.com/ Can't travel to The Holy Land right now? The next best thing is Walking The Bible Lands! Get a free video sample of the Bible lands here! https://www.walkingthebiblelands.com/a/18410/hN8u6LQP An easy way to help my ministry: https://dswministries.org/product/buy-me-a-cup-of-tea/ A donation link: https://dswministries.org/donate/ Jake Doberenz [00:00:00] Special thanks to 7 5 3 Academy for sponsoring this episode. No matter where you are in your fitness and health journey, they've got you covered. They specialize in helping you exceed your health and fitness goals, whether that is losing body fat, gaining muscle, or nutritional coaching to match your fitness levels. They do it all with a written guarantee for results so you don't waste time and money on a program that doesn't exceed your goals. There are martial arts programs. Specialize in anti-bullying programs for kids to combat proven Filipino martial arts. They take a holistic, fun, and innovative approach that simply works. Sign up for your free class now. It's 7 5 3 academy.com. Find the link in the show notes. Welcome to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast, brought to you by DSW Ministries. Your host is singer songwriter, speaker and domestic violence advocate, [00:01:00] Diana . She is passionate about helping survivors in the church heal from domestic violence and abuse and trauma. This podcast is not a substitute for professional counseling or qualified medical help. Now here is Diana. Hey there, everybody. Come on in, set for a spell. How are you guys doing? I appreciate your support in listening to the podcast, and I hope that you are enjoying some really encouraging words and practical things for you to do your own Bible study and read the word of God for yourself. We have a new guest on the show now I'm very familiar with his podcast, creatively Christian. I've been on his podcast. His show has a few different interviewers. And so [00:02:00] Andrea Sandifer, who you guys know that was on the show, she interviewed me on her show. And our guest today, Jake Doberenz, the man behind that podcast, he is a funny guy. He likes to bring humor from the Bible. And I've been reading his blog and following his newsletters. And his Facebook group. So I thought he would be a great addition to the podcast , and I think you're gonna love him. I'm gonna tell you a little bit about him. He has a lot of interest here, so here we go. Jake, Doberenz isn't one thing. He identifies as a polymath, a renaissance man or a multipotentialite. One interest or specialty, can't contain him. So he [00:03:00] says of himself, but enough of the third person. I'm a writer, speaker, minister, and creative thinker, living in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. My most significant role is the founder and president of Theophany Media. A Christian education company dedicated to helping Christians engage with culture through new media. I have earned my Master of Theological studies at Oklahoma Christian University, the same place I earned my bachelor's degree in Bible with a minor in communication studies. I also worked at my alma matter as a resident director and bible ta. I write fiction and nonfiction in a variety of mediums, including poetry, short stories, books, stage plays, academic essays, and [00:04:00] devotionals. I also venture out into other mediums like podcasts and video, my favorite topics of choice to discuss and write about. Although always changing, include creating Christian art, helping people understand the Bible better. Christian identity, theology of social media, use of humor in faith messages, super heroes and theology, any Christian response to culture. So this is gonna be awesome. So I hope that you enjoy my conversation with Jake Doberenz. Please welcome to the show, Jake Doberenz. Thanks for coming on today. Sure thing, anytime. I'm glad to be here. I really enjoyed being on your [00:05:00] podcast, A creatively Christian, and Andrea interviewed me and then she was on my podcast and I follow your Facebook group and get your. Very humorous email newsletter. And so I thought you were the perfect fit to come on to the podcast. And you're a bible geek like me, and you have a different perspective on life. In the Bible, you find humor in the Bible, which a lot of people don't find the Bible very funny. So welcome to the show. Yeah, I'm glad to be here providing some humor and quite possibly even some wisdom and intelligent comments. We'll see if we get to that part. So you haven't been on the podcast before, so. Tell the folks a little bit about yourself and your family. Okay? Yeah. Always a fun question because where do you [00:06:00] start? Where do you end? But yeah. I am in Oklahoma City right now. I'm an Oregon native and got stuck in Oklahoma. Stuck sounds too negative, but I got planted here. That sounds better. I got my bachelor's degree in biblical studies with a minor in communication studies. I have a Master's of Theological studies and for a while I was kind of going down the Bible professor route. That was gonna be my thing. And it's not like completely off the table right now, but it is not my chief kind of path anymore because there are not a lot of jobs in that area and there's a lot of different things there that make it quite challenging. A lot of schooling, a lot of debt for maybe not so much reward, but we'll see what the future brings. I am still flexing my desires to write and teach. That has always been what I wanted to do, even when the subject changed, even when it [00:07:00] was cat psychology or whatever, I always wanted to write and teach and so I'm still doing that in in different ways. I'm certainly still using my degrees, even though I'll be going into teaching middle school geography this year. Ooh, kind of a new adventure. Add some more skills and weird things on my resume. That's kind of how I do it. So geography. Cool. I think that's me. Yeah. Yeah. That's very brave. Middle school, that particular age, did you pick the age group you were teaching or did they just kind of throw you in there? I applied to high school and middle school. I wasn't going to do anybody under middle school and the high school jobs never called me back. And the, I got some different offerings on the middle school side of thing, so I said, okay, that's what you want me to do. God, I will walk into this wilderness. And then they gave me some kind of choices between, and I chose sixth grade specifically, so I'll be with, with sixth graders. [00:08:00] They, uh, we still have some childlike heart and wonder. They're not so jaded like they get when they're a little older, but they're just mature enough where you can start to get a little more serious. So good age. Hmm. I liked sixth grade. It was a good year. We'll be praying for you either way, because that's a lot of work and mm-hmm. But geography's cool. I like Bible geography. Ever since I went to Israel in 2019. How different reading the Bible is when you've been to those places. Have you been to Israel? I haven't. No, I haven't. Yeah. If you're into geography, you would really love going to Israel for obvious reasons, of course, but geography, it just makes the Bible come alive when you've been to the place where Jesus put legion into the herd of pigs and over the cliff. Sure. And I've been to that cliff, and so you can see it now in your head. It's awesome. Or you've been on the Sea of [00:09:00] Galilee and you can actually imagine Jesus walking on the water and because been in the boat. So, yeah, I'm just getting into being interested in geography right now. There you go. Yeah. Cool. What would you say is your particular specialty as far as Bible goes? Yeah. I did my master's thesis on Paul's view of spiritual formation, specifically from one Corinthians chapter three, verse three. Four, just around there. So that's a very specific kind of thing. Most of my training has actually been more on the New Testament side. Specifically Paul, I've done a lot of more academic work with the use of children as a metaphor in the Bible. I've done work with that in both Paul and the Gospels. Sexuality in the New Testament has been something I've kind of explored. [00:10:00] Nowadays though, I have more of theological interests and I'm asking some different kinds of questions. You don't divorce theology from the Bible, but they're just different kinds of questions and different kinds of, and ways and sources for that. But in terms of Bible, yeah, a lot of studying Paul and a lot of thinking about sort of how he makes arguments and specifically like in that thesis, it was all about how he used this metaphor about. Being an infant in Christ, what does all that mean? And how does that reflect how we grow as people? And so I've gone down those kind of rabbit trails a lot my my day. That's really interesting. A Paul's usually a favorite Bible character. Most people, though you can, you never go wrong with the Apostle Paul now. So today we're talking about Bible study for abuse survivors. And reason why we're doing this is because when we've gone through abuse, usually there's some spiritual [00:11:00] abuse involved and we want to distance ourself from God because we've experienced that spiritual abuse and that affects our relationship with God. And a lot of people once they leave or get out of the abuse. Then they're like, okay, I don't wanna read the Bible, I don't wanna pray, and I don't wanna go to church anymore. I don't trust anybody. But I'm trying to encourage on this podcast to come and if you have questions, let's talk about the questions. So, so I've kind of answered my own question, why should we study the Bible for ourselves? But what would you say to that or add to that? Yeah, I think what I would add to that is that, um, one thing that our teachers or pastors or scholars don't have is that they're not you. You are yourself and you come with your experiences and you come [00:12:00] with your own personality and identity, and you are gonna often pick up things that other people might miss, or you're gonna just sort of focus on things more realize as a thread of a theme or something like that. We, we shouldn't come to the Bible biased necessarily, or with too many preconceived notions. 'cause then the text starts to say what we want it to say. That's not what I'm saying. But we do bring ourselves to the text and we have to admit that like, I'm not reading this in a vacuum. I'm reading this because of who I am and what I've experienced and all these things like that. And I think that's really powerful. And I think the Bible is, it's strong enough to take it. Like it's not about pulling whatever meaning you want from it, like I said, but it is about seeing things that are hidden in this multi-layered onion like text here that has so much stuff in it that we can't expect. Even a really smart [00:13:00] guy to just know everything. So yeah, we gotta study the Bible for ourselves. We gotta do our own digging and our own reading. See what we can find. Yeah, I like that answer. Bringing yourself to the table that's. Different than what somebody else would bring to the table. So let's start with something everybody asks about. When it comes to Bible study, you go to the bookstore and you're trying to pick out a Bible, and there's a gazillion different Bible versions out there, and too many versions, in my opinion. Which one do I pick? Does it matter? At the end of the day, it probably doesn't matter. There are those that are better than others, and I'm the term better here. You can use that in different ways. I'm using the term better as in. More accurate to the text, although, hey, we are translating language here. [00:14:00] Translation is an art, not a science, which makes us a little uncomfortable. We can still get that meaning across. You're a, you're an artist and you're a creative. You can still communicate accurately and faithfully even through a song or something like that. And so in the same way, translation is a little bit of an art form and there are people that have to choose certain words, and I think this means that. So yeah, there are some that are more quote unquote scholarly and others that are more paraphrased, like the message, or it's something like the amplified Bible that is just trying to sort of squeeze some more possible meaning out there by becoming like glorified the Sorut. So you got some different options. Most readings are probably not gonna hurt you, at least. As long as you understand like kind of what's going on here. I know in the past the King James has had the word unicorns in it and that that threw some people off and then later we're like, actually we should have translated that. Like Gazelle was not supposed to be translated unicorn. So [00:15:00] okay, we can get some things here that might throw some people off, but as long as we kind of give some grace to the translators, something like the King James is older and we have some different data. We have some older manuscripts that we're pulling from now. So yeah, it's gonna be a little bit more closer to what the originals were saying kind of thing. So yeah, there are those considerations, but I don't think you're gonna make or break your faith if you read the ESV over the NRSV or something like that. Yeah, well I came from a camp that, uh, they were very definitive in what Bible you should read and which ones you should not read and Sure. And they were very dogmatic in that I've changed my stance since then. Because I've actually dug into that sort of thing that okay, you, so you're saying that most of the mainline translations out there, we will still get the main [00:16:00] point of what Bio was trying to say. Right. Yeah, I don't know any that are too left field and crazy or something like that. There are versions, like, I could be wrong about this, but I think the Jehovah's Witness has versions of the Bible that seem to play a little fast and loose with some things and have cut out some different stuff. So obviously I wouldn't necessarily recommend that for Christians. The only other thing I would say is make sure a bunch of different people were involved. Most translations are. Large groups of people. And then you have things like I mentioned the message that Eugene Peterson did, it was just him, but he wasn't necessarily trying to make a definitive thing. That's more of a paraphrase translation, which is like a devotional rather than something to study. So there are just different uses for all these different things. There are, I could go into the weeds. My dad used to own a Christian bookstore. Oh. And so you have your thought for thought translations and then you have your word for word. And [00:17:00] some people think word for word is better because it's more accurate. But the thing, the problem is the Bible might literally say X, but when we translate that word to today, it makes no sense because language is weird like that. And then so the thought for thought is going to be more of an interpretation, but they're trying to say, okay, but what this is trying to say is this and, and here's a thought that you can digest and that makes sense to you. So it's just kind of what you want, but thanks to the internet. In fact, on another screen here, I have pulled up Bible gateway.com. That's what I use a lot. You can look through all sorts of different translations and compare and contrast. If I really wanted to study with more than one, it's legal in most states, so go for it. It's funny you mentioned the message because that was my first Bible when I got saved. My okay friend that I met in high school, I told her I had gotten saved and I didn't have a Bible, and she gave me the message, which [00:18:00] was her Bible, and I loved it. Oh yeah. I highlighted that thing and Oh yeah. And I just tore it up with underlining and I couldn't wait to read it. And then of course you get to Bible college and they tear it out of your hands, so yeah. But yeah, I like the ESV today. I have. A really nice archeology study Bible I bought and I've, I've read the King James most of my Christian life. And switching to another translation was really eye-opening. All this different stuff that I hadn't seen before just popped out, like I didn't know the Bible said that. Wow. It's pretty neat. So along the same lines, do we have to be a Greek and Hebrew scholar to understand the Bible? I hope not because I struggled through Greek and barely made that alive, and so languages are not my strong [00:19:00] suit. Uh, but I think the answer is of course, no. You don't have to be. It depends on what kind of study you're doing, and I probably should have mentioned that earlier, but there's a way to look at the Bible in an academic, scholarly way, and there are some Christians that. Think that's wrong or bad? I don't think it's bad. It's just one way to look at it. When I am in scholarship, when I'm writing this college paper, I am, I have to kind of slice and dice it and I'm doing a work that an atheist could do. It's that kind of work. But then there's another way to look at the Bible that is much more pastorally or for spiritual formation, the kind of thing that treats the text as sacred that an atheist can't do. So if you're doing the academic work, it really helps to know the words because you're trying to get as precise as possible and getting into there. But luckily for us, other people have done the work for us and we have these English translations, so woo. You don't need to know Hebrew and Coin a Greek and [00:20:00] a little bit of Aramic and like Daniel or whatever. Like we don't have to know that because somebody else has done the work for us. And I mentioned already like. There's a lot of people involved in a Bible translation, not just one guy. It's, a lot of people have done this work and they've argued and yelled at each other and come to some conclusions to say, this is the best we can do right now. This is what we got. So, yeah, we don't have to, we don't have to be language PS so, woo. Lucky. Yes. Yeah. I mean, I'm a language geek. I love languages. Personally, I speak two languages besides English, but I haven't taken any Greek or, or Hebrew, maybe someday, but they didn't cover that in my Bible college. But it's good that we already have the tools online that, hey, this is a translation for that word in. There's really no, no real argument about it is there along mainline denominations. Yeah. Most people probably aren't gonna tell you. You have to know all those languages unless somebody there. There are groups of people that would say [00:21:00] the only inspired text of the Bible is the actual original Greek and Hebrew. And so our English translations are not inspired. But that's a minority view. That's not super common. Yeah. Yeah. The most people can understand. The inspiration still comes through, even when it's translating different languages. The word of gods for the whole world, not just those that can speak actually dead languages that nobody speaks today like Latin. Yeah. So now we're gonna get into the nitty gritty here. Okay. When we are sitting down with our Bible and we're deciding to. Study a passage of scripture or maybe a book. What are some basic rules of interpretation? Now we use the fancy big word hermeneutics, but like the basic ones that you really shouldn't ignore in order to. Do a proper Bible study. This is one that gets definitely drilled [00:22:00] into in Bible school and in other contexts, but it's that actual, it's a word context like context is key. Context is king, and one of the best things we can do is zoom out. So if we're looking at a particular scripture. Like one verse, we zoom out to the chapter. Those headings or whatever aren't like God inspired or whatever, but they're helpful to kind of see what the flow of things are. Then we can zoom out to the book level and sometimes zoom out to the biblical level and things like that. But that is always key. Sometimes we get into trouble thinking that the Bible is just like, the whole thing is like Proverbs, where everything's just disconnected and you got these good one-liners and they're fun and they're good zingers, but most of it is some kind of story or, and Paul, I mentioned that being some of my background, Paul's letters are arguments they build on top of each other, and so you can see if we're trying to look at something wild like. One [00:23:00] Corinthians 14 or something, we can understand it because by just kind of going a little backwards and Oh, okay. So that's always really important. And a lot of times authors in the Bible will also tell us kind of their themes and tell us what they really want us to get across. The gospel of John, for instance, is written so that we may believe Luke talks about writing in a, an orderly account of things. So we have some of these statements that if we zoom out a little bit, oh, okay, we can make sense of this in light of that. And so different things like that. But we could go all day into the hermeneutics and then the other fancy word, X of Jesus and that kind of stuff. But at the end of the day, a tool anybody can use is something I learned in elementary school when there was a hard word. It was called rat read around the text. Read around the text. Ooh, that's the acronym there. And that just helps us understand, wait, what is going on? What does Paul mean when he says this? Why is [00:24:00] this guy saying this in judges? Let's take a look. What else is going on here? So it's just a great tool that anybody can use be if they can just zoom out a little bit and read the rest of the Bible and the rest of the passage. Everybody gives a different answer to that question. Now, obviously when we read the Bible, we come upon these passages or some of the stories that are either difficult to understand or it's a topic that we don't wanna deal with. It's really hard to swallow. Like a lot of times it's the genocide passages, of course. Mm-hmm. And or similar things like that. What do we do when we encounter those passages? Yeah. There are also passages that are sometimes called, and the genocide fits into this, but passages called texts of terror. A lot of passages about different abuse situation, and [00:25:00] I won't go into all of those, but I'm sure a lot of us can come up with some things that mm-hmm. Can be triggering in the Bible that seem just really messed up and stuff like that. So I think what's important, first of all is we recognize the, the gut feeling, the awkwardness talk to the beginning about how I see humor in the Bible and I do, I think there are some things in the Bible that we should laugh at. It's actually hilarious. Tell us about what Jonah gets swallowed by a big fish. That's funny. You should be laughing. And it's hilarious that he wants this city destroyed and he's supposed to be a prophet of God and he's not doing his job description and stuff like that. So like. When it's funny, we should laugh and when it's not funny, when it's uncomfortable, we should be okay being uncomfortable. I, I remember when I did college ministry for a time, we talked about the story of, oh man, I can't remember if it's Eli, I think it's Elijah. [00:26:00] And when they make fun of him for being bald and he calls these, she bears to attack these 40 youths, and he, this kid would kid could not get over it. He's like, why is this in the Bible? This is ridiculous. And I just tried to help him. Yeah, let's feel that first. Let's feel that, oh boy, we got some emotions here. So step one, I think it's totally okay to feel those things and then we can do some digging. Again, it's that zooming out. Let's look at the context here. Let's look what's going on there. A lot of times I think some of these texts of terror or uncomfortable texts, um. Sometimes they're not as bad when we look at it through maybe a historical lens or something, but sometimes we can't just justify them really nice and neatly, like some of the stuff about genocide. So ultimately, I have to go back to Jesus because. Jesus is the ultimate expression of God. It is the best [00:27:00] lens into the divine that we've ever seen. It's through this person of Jesus. And so sometimes we got to use our Jesus magnifying glass and look over the scripture and say, that's awkward. I don't like that very much. This makes me, this triggers me. This is, uh, but we put Jesus over and say, but through Christ, we don't have to live like that. We can recognize that there. There are plenty of examples of what not to do in the Bible. Jesus calls us to a different way and Jesus shows us that some things that maybe people thought were really godly and divine at certain points were not. So at the end of the day when things make us uncomfortable, I say feel it. But then ultimately, let's just go back. What does Jesus say? And if Jesus words are kind of. Don't seem to jive with this other crazy stuff going on here. Let's just, let's follow Jesus over some of this, [00:28:00] this other uncomfortable things. Hmm. So it's probably not a satisfying answer, but that's kind of like the point, like we try too hard sometimes to wrap everything in a pretty bow, but sometimes we just can't. With the Bible, the Bible is complicated and that's what makes it powerful. It's not always so neat and tidy and doesn't always make you feel good. It is a like Christ. It is both human, fully human and fully divine. And in that there's some awkward tension. There are some, there are human emotions and human things that that bleed through the divine pages of scripture. I appreciate the honest answer and yeah, I think that was a great answer. It was just reading through the patriarchs and wow, you just wrap your head around how much they messed up. And that's not how God wanted us to live. That's just an example of God just lets [00:29:00] everybody see how these people messed up. But still, God used them in a mighty way. God still gave them grace and forgiveness and love and mercy. I was just on Twitter and that's a dangerous place is Christian Twitter. Oh my goodness. And there was a big thread about some people, they didn't believe that Jesus was the same God as the God of the Old Testament. They cut the line because they thought Jesus over here in the New Testament, his attribute seems so different than. The God of the Old Testament. I don't necessarily agree with that, but that was an interesting concept. That's how they dealt with those horrible stories. I'm just gonna just trust in Jesus and just believe in Jesus and throw everything else away. Yeah. That's a heresy in the second century that, um, yeah. You know, unfortunately haven't quite gotten rid of completely, but is that's what that's called still alive and, [00:30:00] yeah. Oh, that's what you call it. Okay. There's your little fun little historical theology trivia, but yeah, there's probably a word for it. But that goes into my next question is how do you study the Bible and read it and make sure that you're not slipping into some heretical teaching, because I personally know some people that they believe some stuff that's way off base that nobody else. And mainline Christianity believes in, but they're like quoting Bible verses and taking them outta context. How do we avoid going down that path? Yeah, yeah. I had a youth minister who used to joke that if you wanted to, he could justify kicking babies across the room from scripture. Like that was just his wild example because yeah, people can kind of justify the whole gambit of things. So I think now we talked about why it's important to study the Bible for yourself. [00:31:00] At the same time though, I think this living, breathing scripture. Is something that we must read through community. You can do your own work, do your own prep, but ultimately the Bible belongs to all of us. And so we need to read in community. And that can mean your pastors and teachers and your scholars. It can also mean your neighbor and your friend and your kids and your mom and your cousin from a couple states away. But it can also mean dead people, not like seance or whatever, but like, um-ing, you know, read these old preachers and read the church fathers and the church mothers and like, we got 2000 years of Christian history here. There's some wild stuff, but there's some good stuff too. So I say we read scripture in community and you come to your own conclusions. Don't just copy paste whatever Mr. X, Y, Z says, but. What do they [00:32:00] think? And when we start looking at, oh, Christians have kind of seemed to think this for a long time, probably a direction we should lean in. I don't know. I guess people could be wrong, but the way the spirit works I think is a lot of times through community. And it's a way to check, it's a checks and balance for ourselves. So I think that sometimes we can get a little, a little wild with our own interpretations, but we bring in other people. What do you think? Did you see this too? Is this accurate? Is this, does this fit in with historical context of first century Palestine? Or whatever kind of questions you want to ask community. So that's flesh and blood people, but that's also books and podcasts and all sorts of things. I just think we're made to be together. And honestly, when I studied Paul's view of spiritual formation for my thesis, I didn't get to dive into it too much, but what I kept coming across is spiritual formation is not a. You on your own [00:33:00] kind of thing. It is something that happens with people who are this great cloud of witnesses that is cheering you on and it's helping you out. So I think that's a great way to kind of check, check ourselves, and then of course, use your brain. Let's be logical here that scripture probably not actually talking about America because it was written 3000 years ago. I don't know. Thank you. Um, so, so stuff like that, we gotta use our brains. Yeah. I like when you talk about community, because I think, and I've seen this before people go off the rails, is that they're isolating themselves. Mm-hmm. They don't wanna go to church because they don't trust, they don't trust people that they've been hurt. But even if we can't drag ourselves to church just yet in our healing process, yeah. There are other ways to create community and checks and balances. So that's a really good point. We really don't want [00:34:00] to be that guy that started his own denomination on a couple bible verses. Yeah, we got plenty of denominations. I think we're set for a little bit, so let's just chill out for now. Yeah, that's crazy. So like if we're in a community, we're under our Bible teacher or a pastor or Sunday school class, what would be like a red flag that would put your antennas up? Hey, you may wanna check this out for this preacher teacher saying is not a good thing. Are there any like red flags that you would look for? I think arrogance is definitely a big red flag. Ooh, good one. And that is how you get into spiritual, spiritually abusive situations. Definitely. And what I mean by arrogance is people that are not willing to be corrected, not willing to admit the wrong, not willing to learn. I was privileged to have professors where I was getting my Bible degrees. People with [00:35:00] PhDs from the prestigious British universities who would listen to student comments and be like, that's really interesting. Or, heard it like that. Tell me more about that. And one of my Hebrew Bible professors spoke like nine languages. Most of those are dead ones. And still he's curious to know what these 20-year-old college students are thinking. Which is wild because he is way smarter than us. But he is. These guys were adopting this posture of, I can learn from anybody here. I want your perspective. And I could be wrong. We gotta have some things where we have a firm foundation and where we don't sway. We absolutely have to have those. There are some people these days that I think sort of lean too heavily into the wishy-washy. It depends on the day, what I'm feeling, cafeteria style Christianity. We can't do that. But we also can't go over here where it's, I figured it out when I was 30 years old, when I was 40 years old, and now I'm like, [00:36:00] done. I'm done learning. Got it right. I to be the only one to get it right. And that's how denominations start, right? Ooh, everybody else got it wrong all the time. Now I'm right. So that's dangerous. So let's learn from people who are themselves. Learners who are willing to be challenged and to ask questions and wanna know your take on things. I know from being in ministry settings that oftentimes I am the guy with the more Bible degrees than most people in the room. But then there'll be these 70-year-old church ladies who have lived this and they've been in the Bible their whole life. I can learn from them. Mm-hmm. They have something to say, even though they've never read the text in Greek. They have something to add to the conversation. Mm-hmm. So we need to be learners. I love that. That is so awesome and so very true. The Holy Spirit speaks to each of us individually and gives us different [00:37:00] lessons and we can share those lessons. Now, you as a scholarly person, you must have some favorite resources that you use to study the bible. Can you recommend some specific resources that are maybe easy to use? Yeah, there's a couple websites, Bible gateway, I mentioned that already. They have. Some free commentaries and bible encyclopedias and things kind of on the sidebar there. So as you're looking to scripture, you could glorify and study Bible or have access to chunks from different commentaries. And for a while, while I was doing some more preaching, I actually did the paid, there's a kind of a paid version that it was like five bucks a month or something really cheap like that. It just got access to more things so I can have the scripture here and then all my resources next to it. And that was handy. Bible hub.com is also another one. [00:38:00] Um, that one's especially good if you do wanna look at the language stuff, knowing that you're not a scholar, you can say, but what is that Greek word? And you can click on it and it will show you the definitions, show you other places in scripture it's used. You can kind of get a feel for that. So that's a really good one for people who are not, who don't know the languages or. Like me who always needed help with my Greek homework or something like that. So yeah, those come to mind. But man, like we are, we at our fingertips. There's a lot of good stuff out there. A lot of bad stuff, no doubt. But there are podcasts and all sorts of books and there's just, there's a lot of good stuff there. Wouldn't even know where to begin, just sort of thinking broadly. But I think Bible gateway, Bible hub, easy. Anybody can access those for free. And you don't necessarily need a giant library or really expensive commentary sets 'cause they're really expensive. Yeah. That's why my parents get me one commentary for my birthday and [00:39:00] for Christmas each year. And so in 50 years I'll have the full set or whatever. That's not true. That's, it'll actually probably be. I can't do the math however it takes to get 66 books. But anyway. Wow. All I had in bible college that we were allowed to have is Matthew Henry commentary, which is kind of on the dry side. Yeah. Most Bible professors would pass out hearing you say that. It's not bad stuff, but bad, but it's not, it's not easy to read it's thing, let's just say. Yeah. And we were allowed to read Weirs, BE'S books. It's a pretty good series about where I came from. John MacArthur's commentaries were like hearsay. Oh, okay. The Baptist didn't like the, at least the churches that I was in, they didn't like MacArthur's stuff, but, and I had the actual strong concordance. I still own that's, yeah, sure. So sort of a free way to get that, besides if you don't want to get a giant [00:40:00] volume. Yeah. I like to read the physical books too. Sure. Nothing, not knocking the physical. But yeah, if people are on a budget, yeah, people are on a budget and you can't go and buy those big, huge coffee table books. Or if you're near a Christian university, see if you can get a library card that's, they have tons of stuff. I can walk in there and there are a whole shelf of like Genesis commentaries or whatever. It could be information overload. But also I can, I'll pick up a couple different volumes of different perspectives and I'll read what they each have to say about the verse or chapter I'm dealing with and I can kind of synthesize a conclusion. And that's how you do it. Yeah. I'll also mention, I, we were allowed to. Listen on the radio, Jay Vernon McGee and yeah, he was definitely expository. He [00:41:00] would go verse by verse and go through the entire Bible verse by verse, which I thought was really good. And I don't agree with everything he said, but that's the way I learned a lot of stuff was through verse by verse radio program back in the day. Mm. I'm dating myself, aren't I? It's all good here. All good. No, we talked a lot about a bunch of different stuff. Is there anything about Bible study that we didn't talk about that you would like to mention? I know there's so much, uh, yeah, I just touched on it a little bit, but I kind of wanna bring it back. Look at different views than yours. If you are really charismatic, then look at something that's not quite charismatic, or if you are. I won't go. I'll skip all those differences. You know what? You are read some of the stuff that's a little different. Stuff that challenges you. That's how we grow. That's how we grow, [00:42:00] is to hear something a little different. And the thing is, you're not required to believe it. Right. You can just read it and at least know what they're saying. I know in my Christian upbringing, and not necessarily I was intentional, but I only knew my side of the argument. Or if I knew somebody else's argument, it was this straw man version that was just not accurate. And then I, you go to the big wide world and be like, oh wait, there are lots of different views. And those people are actually smart and they have things to say about this, but somebody else is the opposite and they're also a smart person. What's going on? It's just good to expose ourselves to different things. In most cases we could, we, you can choose your own boundaries and things like that. Mm-hmm. It doesn't mean if you're studying something in the Old Testament, you have to read the Jewish and the Muslim and the Mormon view of what. It doesn't mean you have to go there, but just check out some different things. Have your favorite commentaries. Do it, but every once in a while [00:43:00] peek into your, your local heretic and see what they have to say. I dunno, maybe not a heretic, somebody who's a little different. You, you, your istic. Yeah. Our last guest was talking about Calvinism and stuff, but yeah, doesn, excellent suggestion because I definitely was in my own camp for many years until I got out of my abusive situation and started looking into other views and I have since changed nothing major. I didn't change any major views, but I realized that okay, there are other Godly people. Now I see they can use scripture to defend their position too. And there's a little bit of wiggle room in there for sure. Sure. For different viewpoints. I went and did a study and looked at somebody else's view on a tertiary argument. Sure. Tertiary doctrine. It's not a doctrine of the faith, but [00:44:00] something that's very important and it's like, okay, I'm not gonna be judgmental. And that was hard for me to change my viewpoint. Yeah, yeah. But they gave me really great scriptural evidence. So yeah, that's kind of a sideline, but you made excellent point. But anyway, I appreciate you sharing all this valuable information and your view, viewpoint, and it's fascinating. Everybody has different answers for these questions. I've asked everybody the same questions. Right. And they're all giving me different answers, which I think that's very helpful. Oh yeah. Yeah. Very helpful. Yeah, getting people exposed to different things and again, like I am me and you are you, and we're different. And that's the point. Like we all come together with our different focuses and our different backgrounds and knowledge, and together we are the body of Christ. Amen. And that's beautiful. So tell the folks [00:45:00] how people can connect with you and you have resources and maybe if they wanna play stump the Bible teacher, they can email you. Yeah, you can find that all about me@jakedobern.com. D-O-B-E-R-E-N-Z as in zebra. And that's kind of my home base on the interwebs. If you do jake dovers.com/email, you can get on my email list that was mentioned earlier where I talk about. Funny stories from my life that have spiritual points, and I bring out spiritual points from that. And yeah, you can definitely contact me through social media or email, and that's all on my website there. So I'll let you track me down and tell me how wrong I am and all of that kind of stuff. That's fun. It comes with the territory, so totally okay with that. And then lastly, I do a bunch of work with Christian creatives, with Fiani [00:46:00] Media, and as was mentioned, I produce the Creatively Christian podcast. So I would love for you to check that out if that's kind of your thing, if that's your area. Yeah. You guys have a real great variety of guests on that show. It's not just one particular kind of art. You guys represent a lot of different ones, which is fun. Oh yeah. And we're trying to get more variety all the time. Awesome. Now. I don't usually have guests pray on the show, but would you pray for our listeners in their journey in the scriptures? Of course. Let's go ahead and pray. Heavenly God, we come to you in prayer on this podcast episode and we ask that whoever's listening now in the future, in a couple years, where wherever we are, that, that we can be receptive to how you speak to us through scripture and through our [00:47:00] communities that help us see scripture. Let the spirit guide us as we dive into this sacred but sometimes confusing and complicated documents. Lord, I ask that you give us the wisdom to be able to rightly divide your word and to remain faithful even when our own preferences might wanna lean in a different direction. Lord, thank you so much for the ministry of this podcast. We pray that people continue to have healing and continue to find themselves in a better place, both in the world and with you spiritually. In Jesus' name, amen. Amen. Thank you so much for coming on the show. God bless you. Sure thing. God bless you. Thank you for listening to the Wounds of the Faithful Podcast. If this episode has been helpful [00:48:00] to you, please hit the subscribe button and tell a friend. You could connect with us at DSW Ministries dot org where you'll find our blog, along with our Facebook, Twitter, and our YouTube channel links. Hope to see you next week.

When I was a kid, I was taught not to cuss. It was a tricky feat for someone given to frustration and anger, and so I found a loophole by saying, “I don't mean to cuss, but . . .” and then saying whatever had come to mind. I've been wondering recently how many times I, inadvertently, cuss, or curse, from the pulpit. I don't mean in the style of Die Hard's John McLain. I'm thinking of a more insidious, and unhelpful, accidental cursing. That's what I want to explore and I'm grateful that you trust me enough to tag along. If you can, please rate, review, and refer Greatheart's Table and subscribe to the print version at Substack.com. Now, about that cursing . . . . We encourage you to also subscribe to our newsletter where, on third Mondays and at other times there may be additional content. You can do so here. You can help support this podcast by supporting us on Patreon. You can do so here. EPISODE NOTES Notes and resources relevant to this episode: Whoever blesses his neighbor with a loud voice,rising early in the morning,will be counted as cursing. (Proverbs 27:14) Eugene Peterson, The Contemplative Pastor, (United States: Eerdmans Publishing, 1993). When you buy a book using a link on this page, Greatheart's Table receives a commission. Thank you for supporting this work! ChargeDownload Podcast music provided by Cool Hand Luke and used with permission.Intro: “Holy Vanguard” / LyricsOutro: “Wonder Tour” / Lyrics / Video To find our more about Greatheart's Table, visit us here.

On this podcast, I am committed to helping listeners (and myself) understand beauty in its truest, most life-giving sense. And that is why I am so excited to start the new year with David Taylor as today's guest.David Taylor is a theologian, author, speaker, priest, and director of initiatives in art and faith. As Associate Professor of Theology & Culture at Fuller Theological Seminary, he has lectured widely on the arts, from Thailand to South Africa. He has also written for The Washington Post, Image Journal, Theology Today, Worship, Religion News Service, and Christianity Today, among others. Additionally, in 2016 he produced a short film with Bono and Eugene Peterson, entitled Bono and Eugene Peterson: THE PSALMS.In today's episode, David not only gives us a behind-the-scenes look at his class on beauty at Fuller Seminary, but also shares his own Biblically grounded understanding of what true beauty is. David also uncovers lies about beauty he sees at work in Western society, discusses how we might navigate aging in a broken world, and helps us see how we can know God in and through the arts. My hope is that this conversation will leave you feeling deeply encouraged, as you are reminded that true beauty is alive and at work in the world.David's latest book: Naming the Spirit: Pneumatology Through the Arts Buy Melissa L. Johnson's book, Soul-Deep Beauty: Fighting for Our True Worth in a World Demanding Flawless, here. Learn more about Impossible Beauty and join the community here.

Elizabeth Kübler-Ross said:“The most beautiful people we have known are those who have known defeat, known suffering, known struggle, known loss—and have found their way out of the depths. These persons have an appreciation, a sensitivity, and an understanding of life that fills them with compassion, gentleness, and a deep loving concern. Beautiful people don't just happen.”Beautiful people don't just happen. They are formed.And most of us, if we're honest, want to be that kind of people—the kind who ends well. People who go the distance. People marked by what Eugene Peterson called “a long obedience in the same direction.”I don't know anyone excited about moral failure. Or burnout. Or quietly sputtering out into cynicism or despair. And the tragic truth is this: If the ending is bad, people rarely remember the beginning. You can do years—decades of good, faithful, beautiful work. But if you never find your way out of the depths, it can all be eclipsed.So the question before us is Do you want to hear Jesus say, 'Well done”

The Thrill of Hope - Christmas EveDecember 24, 2025Teacher: Pastor Dave BrownJoy turns into rejoicing.Look, Charlie, let's face it. We all know that Christmas is a big commercial racket. — Lucy van Pelt In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world. (This was the first census that took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria.) And everyone went to their own town to register. So Joseph also went up from the town of Nazareth in Galilee to Judea, to Bethlehem the town of David, because he belonged to the house and line of David. He went there to register with Mary, who was pledged to be married to him and was expecting a child. While they were there, the time came for the baby to be born, and she gave birth to her firstborn, a son. She wrapped him in cloths and placed him in a manger, because there was no guest room available for them. And there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord. This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in cloths and lying in a manger.” Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host appeared with the angel, praising God and saying, “Glory to God in the highest heaven,
and on earth peace to those on whom his favor rests.” When the angels had left them and gone into heaven, the shepherds said to one another, “Let's go to Bethlehem and see this thing that has happened, which the Lord has told us about.” So they hurried off and found Mary and Joseph, and the baby, who was lying in the manger. When they had seen him, they spread the word concerning what had been told them about this child, and all who heard it were amazed at what the shepherds said to them. But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart. The shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things they had heard and seen, which were just as they had been told. — Luke 2:1-20 I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. — Luke 2:10 The good news is that the one true God has now taken charge of the world…The ancient sickness that had crippled the whole world, and humans with it, has been cured at last, so that new life can rise up in its place. Life has come to life and is pouring out like a mighty river into the world, in the form of a new power, the power of love. The good news was, and is, that all this has happened in and through Jesus; that one day it will happen, completely and utterly, to all creation; and that we humans, every single one of us, whoever we are, can be caught up in that transformation here and now. — N.T. Wright Joy turns into rejoicing. The shepherds returned, glorifying and praising God for all the things they had heard and seen, which were just as they had been told. — Luke 2:20 Feelings are great liars. If Christians worshipped only when they felt like it, there would be precious little worship. We think that if we don't feel something there can be no authenticity in doing it. But the wisdom of God says something different: that we can act ourselves into a new way of feeling much quicker than we can feel ourselves into a new way of acting. Worship is an act that develops feelings for God, not a feeling for God that is expressed in an act of worship. — Eugene Peterson

On this episode of This vs. That, we sit down with Ronnie Martin, pastor and Director of Leader Care and Renewal for the Harbor Network, to explore unhurried ministry versus anxious ministry.We dig into why so many ministry leaders find themselves overextended and running ragged. Ronnie shares insights from his book "The Unhurried Pastor," co-authored with Brian Croft, which draws on Eugene Peterson's work to address the burnout epidemic in ministry today.We discuss the "superhero pastor" mentality and how pastors can actually become addicted to being everything to everybody, even while intellectually knowing it leads to burnout.We explore the unique pressures pastors face—the flexibility of their schedules, the invisible nature of much of their work, and the constant pressure to prove their worth to their congregations.We also tackle the tension of feeling like we're never doing enough while simultaneously doing too much, and how the question "what are you spending your time doing?" can feel like a shame-throwing question. Ronnie offers practical wisdom on discernment, the importance of the "holy pause" before saying yes to every request, and how to avoid unhealthy stacking of commitments.This conversation offers valuable insights for anyone in ministry—or really anyone feeling overwhelmed—about finding sustainable rhythms, practicing humility, and learning to distinguish between a full calendar and one that's suffocating us.

The Thrill of Hope - Week 3December 14, 2025Teacher: Pastor Dave BrownJoyAnd there were shepherds living out in the fields nearby, keeping watch over their flocks at night. An angel of the Lord appeared to them, and the glory of the Lord shone around them, and they were terrified. But the angel said to them, “Do not be afraid. I bring you good news that will cause great joy for all the people. Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is the Messiah, the Lord.—Luke 2:8-1What's the difference between happiness and joy?Happiness is an emotional response to our external circumstances. Joy is a deeper reality that flows from the core of our being.I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete.— John 15:11Joy cannot by bought, nor can we just flip a switch will ourselves to be joyous. Joy must be cultivated.Joy is not a requirement of Christian discipleship; it is a consequence.  It is not what we have to acquire in order to experience life in Christ; it is what comes to us when we are walking in the way of faith and obedience.— Eugene Peterson

Hosts Steve and Lisa Cuss share five practical tips for maintaining emotional and mental well-being during the Christmas season. They discuss handling family tensions, grief, and the pressures of holiday preparations, emphasizing self-awareness, emotional preparation, and setting boundaries. Blending personal stories and spiritual reflections, they encourage listeners to notice their emotional states, manage reactions, and make space for both joy and sadness. The episode offers compassionate, human-sized advice to help listeners create a peaceful, connected, and meaningful holiday experience, even amid challenges.  Episode Resources: Secure your copy of The Five Steps to Christmas Sanity PDF Listen: Anxiety, the Nervous System, and Your Window of Tolerance: Lisa Cuss & Clarissa Moll John Chapter 1 (ESV)  Revelation 21:3-4 (Eugene Peterson's The Message) AA Meeting Guidelines Sign up for Steve's Newsletter & Podcast Reminders: Capable Life Newsletter New Candles, Advent Prayers, and Journals: https://www.stevecusswords.com/ Join Steve at an upcoming intensive:  Capable Life Intensives Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In our December 7 Sunday Gathering, we kick off our 2025 Advent series by talking about the prophets and their long wait for Jesus. Discussion Questions When you think about Christmas, do you feel more wonder or more boredom and cynicism? Why do you think that is? What parts of the Christmas story have become “too familiar” for you? Where do you feel numb? The sermon talks about needing “fresh eyes to see the old again.” What helps you rediscover wonder in your spiritual life? What kills it? Dallas Willard said, “What you get out of your spiritual life is determined by what you are waiting for.” What are you really waiting for these days? Is Jesus actually on that list? What do you find hardest about waiting—in life or in faith? How do you normally respond when God feels slow or silent? N.T. Wright said Advent teaches us to “live in the present with the faith that God's new world is on the way.” What would it look like for you to “live in the present” while still holding deep hope for Jesus' return? Simeon waited his whole life for something he never saw until old age. What does his patience reveal about what it means to trust God? Eugene Peterson wrote, “Advent is not a time to pretend things are better than they are.” What darkness do you need to name this Advent—honestly, without pretending? What is one concrete way you can “slow down enough to hear the Spirit” this week? Is there someone in your life who embodies hopeful waiting—like a Simeon?

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Who knows a rested woman? We all know women who are stressed out, burned out, exhausted, successful, anxious, depressed—but truly rested? This question from "The Relaxed Woman" stopped me in my tracks and led to one of the most important decisions I've made in years. In this deeply personal episode—number 77, a number that speaks of completion and perfect forgiveness—I'm sharing why I'm pausing the podcast for this season. But this isn't just my story. It's an invitation for every woman who's been giving her best to everyone else and her exhaustion to her family. We'll explore: The biblical significance of 77 and what completion really means Why pruning isn't punishment—it's preparation for new growth How hurry and love simply cannot coexist The revolutionary power of celebrating each other's brave NO's The parable of the fake pearls and what God might be asking you to release Featuring wisdom from Dallas Willard, John Mark Comer, Ruth Haley Barton, Emily P. Freeman, and Eugene Peterson's beautiful translation of Jesus' invitation to "live freely and lightly." This episode is for every woman stepping into November wondering how she'll survive another holiday season. It's permission to open your hands. It's an invitation to trust that God holds all things together—not you. What fake pearls are you clutching? What if your Father has real ones waiting? Episode Note: This is the final episode for this season as I step into Spiritual Direction training and explore finishing my degree at Mississippi State after 27 years. Thank you for 77 beautiful conversations. See you in the next season.

Spiritual Formation takes two forms -- intentional and unintentional. In this episode we examine the realities of each and chart a path to follow the call of God to "be transformed."

What if the biggest changes in your life aren't sudden at all—but have been building quietly for years? Watch the full conversation on YouTube In this episode, Russell Moore sits down with pastor and author Mark Batterson (National Community Church, Washington, D.C.; The Circle Maker, Gradually, Then Suddenly) to talk about how transformation, calling, and even faith itself often arrive–as Hemingway once put it–gradually, then suddenly. From hard decisions and hidden preparation to the slow work of God that looks instant only in hindsight, they explore why patience may be the most underrated spiritual discipline of all. Batterson and RDM talk about the writings of Eugene Peterson on the “long obedience” of a faith journey, the difference between patience and stagnation, how to know when you're called to something and when you're released from it, and why celebrity culture in the church short-circuits character formation. They get practical on habits (why 30 days feels like the hardest part), preaching long obedience in a city addicted to immediacy, learning grit without “snowplow” spirituality, and aiming at legacy that's measured by who others become because of you.  If you're looking for wisdom without hurry, conviction without hype, and hope that can take a punch and keep walking, this is the episode for you. Resources mentioned in this episode: Mark Batterson, Gradually, Then Suddenly  Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises Eugene Peterson, A Long Obedience in the Same Direction  Keep up with Russell: Sign up for the weekly newsletter where Russell shares thoughtful takes on big questions, offers a Christian perspective on life, and recommends books and music he's enjoying. Submit a question for the show at questions@russellmoore.com Subscribe to the Christianity Today Magazine: Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: Click here for 25% off a subscription. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

What is the book of Revelation really about? For ages, it has been the source of sensationalism, idolatry, confusion, and end-times predictions. But at its root, it is about the power and worship of the Lamb who was slain. Biblical scholar Michael J. Gorman joins Mark Labberton to explore how Christians can read the book of Revelation with wisdom, faith, and hope rather than fear or sensationalism. Drawing from his book Reading Revelation Responsibly: Uncivil Worship and Witness—Following the Lamb into the New Creation, Gorman offers a reorientation to Revelation's central vision: worshipping the Lamb, resisting idolatrous power, and embodying faithful discipleship in the world. Together they discuss Revelation's misuses in popular culture, its critique of empire and nationalism, and its invitation to follow the crucified and risen Christ into the new creation. Episode Highlights "The book of Revelation is about lamb power—not hyper-religious or political power. It's about absorbing rather than inflicting evil." "This book is for those who are confused by, afraid of, and or preoccupied with the book of Revelation." "We shouldn't look for predictions but for parallels and analogies." "Worship, discipleship, and new creation—that's where Revelation hangs its hat." "At its root, Christian nationalism is a form of idolatry." "The only way to come out of Babylon is to go back into Babylon with new values and new practices." Helpful Links and Resources Reading Revelation Responsibly – https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Revelation-Responsibly-Following-Creation/dp/1606085603/ Reverse Thunder by Eugene Peterson – https://www.amazon.com/Reversed-Thunder-Revelation-Praying-Imagination/dp/0060665033 St. Mary's Seminary & University, Baltimore – https://www.stmarys.edu About Michael J. Gorman Michael J. Gorman is the Raymond E. Brown Professor of Biblical Studies and Theology at St. Mary's Seminary & University in Baltimore, Maryland. A leading New Testament scholar, he is the author of numerous books on Pauline theology and Revelation, including Reading Revelation Responsibly, Cruciformity, and Participating in Christ. Gorman's teaching and writing emphasize Scripture as a call to cruciform discipleship, faithful worship, and the hope of new creation. Show Notes Introducing Reading Revelation Responsibly "This book is for those who are confused by, afraid of, and or preoccupied with the Book of Revelation." "Apocalypse" means revelation, not destruction. Emerging from twenty-five years of study and teaching, aimed at rescuing Revelation from misinterpretation or neglect Growing up amid 1970s end-times obsession—Hal Lindsey's The Late Great Planet Earth and fearful youth-group predictions of the world's end Fear of the book of Revelation until he studied it with Bruce Metzger at Princeton Seminary Why he wrote the book: for people who have been scared or confused by Revelation's misuse Interpretation and misreading the book of Revelation Early questions: Does Revelation predict particular events or people? No predictions, but symbolic speaking into every age "Our task is not to find predictions but to discern parallels and analogies." Warning against mapping Revelation onto modern crises or personalities "When those predictions fail, the book gets sidelined or scoffed at." Keep one foot in the first-century context and one in the present Worship and discipleship The heart of Revelation is worship. "This is a book about worship—and about the object of our worship." Explaining the subtitle: Uncivil Worship and Witness—Following the Lamb into the New Creation "Uncivil worship" contrasts with "civil religion"—worship that refuses to idolize political power Influence from Eugene Peterson's Reverse Thunder and his own teaching at St. Mary's, where Peterson once taught Revelation Worship leads to discipleship: "Those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes." True discipleship mirrors the Lamb's humility and non-violence. The lamb and the meaning of power Interpreting Revelation's vision of the slain and standing Lamb as the key to understanding divine power "The crucified Messiah is the risen Lord—but he remains the crucified one." The Lamb appears twenty-eight times, a symbol of universality and completeness. "Revelation is about lamb power—absorbing rather than inflicting evil." Discipleship is cruciform: following the Lamb's way of self-giving love. The unholy trinity and the danger of idolatry Chapters 12–13 depict the dragon and two beasts—the "unholy trinity" of satanic, imperial, and religious power. "Power gone amok": political, military, and spiritual domination that mimic divinity How true worship resists empire and exposes idolatry Warning against reading these beasts as predictions of the UN or the pope; rather, they reveal recurring alliances of religion and politics "At its root, Christian nationalism is idolatry." When political identity eclipses discipleship, "political power always wins, and faith loses." Faith, politics, and worship today Christian nationalism as a modern form of "civil religion," conflating patriotism with divine will "It's only Christian in name—it lacks Christian substance." Idolatry is not limited to one side: "It permeates the left, the right, and probably the centre." Labberton agrees: false worship is endemic wherever self-interest and fear shape our loves. Both stress that Revelation calls the church to worship the Lamb, not the state. "Revelation critiques all human systems of false worship." Revelation's goal: Not destruction, but new creation "Destruction is penultimate—cleansing the way for renewal." Believers already live as citizens of that new creation. "The only way to come out of Babylon is to go back into Babylon with new values and new practices." Communal, not merely individual, discipleship: "Revelation is written to churches, not just believers." Reinterpreting Revelation 3:20: Jesus knocking isn't an altar call to unbelievers but Christ seeking re-entry into his own church. "Jesus always wants to come back in." Living revelation today Spirituality of hope, not fear or withdrawal "Reading Revelation responsibly means engaging the world through worship and witness." How true worship is dangerous because it transforms our allegiance. "Following the Lamb into the new creation is the church's act of resistance." Conclusion: "Worthy is the Lamb." Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.  

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Ever wonder why the Bible ends with dragons, cosmic battles, and a woman giving birth in space? Turns out, Revelation 12 isn't trying to predict the future or scare you—it's doing something far more interesting. This passage takes everything the Bible has been saying about good, evil, death, and resurrection and cranks it up to high definition. Drawing on Eugene Peterson's insight that Revelation is meant to "revive our imagination" rather than give us new information, this sermon explores how ancient apocalyptic imagery speaks directly to our current moment of chaos and uncertainty. Whether you're familiar with the book of Revelation or have always found it confusing, you'll walk away with a fresh perspective on why these strange, vivid stories might be exactly what we need right now.

"Our faith is not about how well we do our faith."— Scarlet HiltibidalToday's Episode: Join Natalie Abbott and Scarlet Hiltibidal as they discuss what it looks like to actually live by faith and instead of trusting in more tangible things. It's messy, and it often feels precarious, but it's so good. Scarlet talks about how she's seen God show up in the midst of cross-country moves and sad days and her mom's cancer diagnosis. She shares about the wonder of receiving instead of faking our faith or trying to earn God's favor. You won't want to miss this episode!This month's memory verse: "For we live by faith, not by sight." — 2 Corinthians 5:7Today's guest: Scarlet Hiltibidal is the author of “Afraid of All the Things,” “You're the Worst Person in the World,” “He Numbered the Pores on My Face,” and the “Anxious and Ashamed” Bible studies. She writes regularly for ParentLife Magazine, HomeLife Magazine, and She Reads Truth. Scarlet enjoys speaking to women around the country about the freedom and rest available in Jesus. She loves hanging out with her husband and four kids, eating nachos by herself, writing for her friends, and studying stand-up comedy with a passion that should be reserved for more important pursuits. Want to go even deeper in this month's verse? Study along with Natalie in the monthly Bible Study Membership. Get the first month FREE with the code: PODCAST.Love this show? Support us by leaving a review.Links from today's show: Find out all things Scarlet at ScarletHiltibidal.com. Get your copy of Scarlet's book, Hopeful-ish.Get the ESV Prayer Journals for 30% off with a free Crossway Plus account.Check out the Forever Welcomed bible study, by Oghosa Iyamu. Check out the book Scarlet recommended: A Long Obedience in the Same Direction, by Eugene Peterson.  Support the showFollow Natalie & Vera at DwellDifferently.com and @dwelldifferenly.

In this episode of the Unhurried Living Podcast, we explore the difference between work that flows from grace and love, and work that drains us because it’s fueled by fear, insecurity, or people-pleasing. Together we’ll talk about holy rhythms of work and rest, and what it looks like to return to the “easy yoke” of Jesus. If you’ve been feeling weary, overextended, or caught in workaholism, this conversation offers hope: you can lead from rest rather than rush. What You’ll Take Away from This Episode: How to discern between grace-energized work and soul-draining drivenness. Why busyness, according to Eugene Peterson, is not productivity but a form of laziness. The danger of “false vines” that drain life rather than nourish it. Small, sustainable practices for weaving sabbath and reflection into daily rhythms. How contemplative practices root us in God’s presence so our work becomes overflow, not overextension. Resources & References Mentioned in This Episode: Subversive Spirituality by Eugene Peterson New Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (various translations available) The Spiritual Life by Evelyn Underhill Jesus’ teaching on the easy yoke (Matthew 11:28–30) and the vine and branches (John 15) Connect with Alan on LinkedIn or learn more about Unhurried Living programs on their website. Learn about PACE: Certificate in Leadership and Soul Care Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Description: Today, we're revisiting a pivotal conversation that changed the course of Jen's life and career. In 2016, during what was expected to be a routine interview with journalist Jonathan Merritt, Jen found herself speaking publicly for the first time about her views on abortion, politics, and LGBTQ+ issues—beliefs she had been wrestling with privately for over a year. While she was confident in her answers, she was unprepared for the backlash that followed. In this encore episode, Jen and Jonathan reflect on that moment and its ripple effects. Jonathan shares his own parallel journey—growing up as the son of a megachurch pastor, internalizing the “love the sinner, hate the sin” message, and later confronting his own identity as a gay man. His story, like Jen's, became public in ways he never expected, leading him on a path of deeper truth, faith, and purpose. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You told the truth. You were ready for this interview. You had actually been doing the work for a decade to be ready to answer those questions honestly. But, your PR wasn't ready.” – Amy Hardin “The best way to live is true. No matter what you think it will cost or what it does cost you, the cost is worth the reward.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Religion News Service - https://religionnews.com/about-rns/ Jen Hatmaker: Trump, Black Lives Matter, gay marriage and more by Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/jen-hatmaker-trump-black-lives-matter-gay-marriage Growing Up Evangelical and Gay with Jonathan Merritt - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-63/growing-up-evangelical-and-gay-with-jonathan-merritt/ My Saddest Good Friday in Memory: When Treasured Things are Dead - https://jenhatmaker.com/my-saddest-good-friday-in-memory-when-treasured-things-are-dead/ Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-24/love-is-the-game-changer-of-our-faith-bishop-michael-curry/ How to Create a Politics of Love: Lisa Sharon Harper - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-24/how-to-create-a-politics-of-love-lisa-sharon-harper/ Christian Rock Star Comes Out as Gay in Letter to the World - Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/christian-rock-star-admits-hes-gay-writes-letter-to-fans?rq=trey%20pearson Eugene Peterson on Changing His Mind About Same-Sex Issues and Marriage – Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/eugene-peterson-changing-mind-sex-issues-marriage?rq=eugene Leading Evangelical Ethicist is now Pro-LGBT (David Gushee) – Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/leading-evangelical-ethicist-now-pro-lgbt?rq=david A Faith of Our Own: Following Jesus Beyond the Culture Wars – Jonathan Merritt -  Dr. Michael Lindsay,  Sociologist & Author - https://www.taylor.edu/about/president-profile James Martin, Jesuit Priest - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/ Guest's Links: Website - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jonathan_merritt Twitter - https://x.com/JonathanMerritt Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JonathanMerrittWriter Substack - https://jonathanmerritt.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices