Podcast appearances and mentions of eugene peterson

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Who knows a rested woman? We all know women who are stressed out, burned out, exhausted, successful, anxious, depressed—but truly rested? This question from "The Relaxed Woman" stopped me in my tracks and led to one of the most important decisions I've made in years. In this deeply personal episode—number 77, a number that speaks of completion and perfect forgiveness—I'm sharing why I'm pausing the podcast for this season. But this isn't just my story. It's an invitation for every woman who's been giving her best to everyone else and her exhaustion to her family. We'll explore: The biblical significance of 77 and what completion really means Why pruning isn't punishment—it's preparation for new growth How hurry and love simply cannot coexist The revolutionary power of celebrating each other's brave NO's The parable of the fake pearls and what God might be asking you to release Featuring wisdom from Dallas Willard, John Mark Comer, Ruth Haley Barton, Emily P. Freeman, and Eugene Peterson's beautiful translation of Jesus' invitation to "live freely and lightly." This episode is for every woman stepping into November wondering how she'll survive another holiday season. It's permission to open your hands. It's an invitation to trust that God holds all things together—not you. What fake pearls are you clutching? What if your Father has real ones waiting? Episode Note: This is the final episode for this season as I step into Spiritual Direction training and explore finishing my degree at Mississippi State after 27 years. Thank you for 77 beautiful conversations. See you in the next season.

Spiritual Formation takes two forms -- intentional and unintentional. In this episode we examine the realities of each and chart a path to follow the call of God to "be transformed."

What if the biggest changes in your life aren't sudden at all—but have been building quietly for years? Watch the full conversation on YouTube In this episode, Russell Moore sits down with pastor and author Mark Batterson (National Community Church, Washington, D.C.; The Circle Maker, Gradually, Then Suddenly) to talk about how transformation, calling, and even faith itself often arrive–as Hemingway once put it–gradually, then suddenly. From hard decisions and hidden preparation to the slow work of God that looks instant only in hindsight, they explore why patience may be the most underrated spiritual discipline of all. Batterson and RDM talk about the writings of Eugene Peterson on the “long obedience” of a faith journey, the difference between patience and stagnation, how to know when you're called to something and when you're released from it, and why celebrity culture in the church short-circuits character formation. They get practical on habits (why 30 days feels like the hardest part), preaching long obedience in a city addicted to immediacy, learning grit without “snowplow” spirituality, and aiming at legacy that's measured by who others become because of you.  If you're looking for wisdom without hurry, conviction without hype, and hope that can take a punch and keep walking, this is the episode for you. Resources mentioned in this episode: Mark Batterson, Gradually, Then Suddenly  Ernest Hemingway, The Sun Also Rises Eugene Peterson, A Long Obedience in the Same Direction  Keep up with Russell: Sign up for the weekly newsletter where Russell shares thoughtful takes on big questions, offers a Christian perspective on life, and recommends books and music he's enjoying. Submit a question for the show at questions@russellmoore.com Subscribe to the Christianity Today Magazine: Special offer for listeners of The Russell Moore Show: Click here for 25% off a subscription. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

What is the book of Revelation really about? For ages, it has been the source of sensationalism, idolatry, confusion, and end-times predictions. But at its root, it is about the power and worship of the Lamb who was slain. Biblical scholar Michael J. Gorman joins Mark Labberton to explore how Christians can read the book of Revelation with wisdom, faith, and hope rather than fear or sensationalism. Drawing from his book Reading Revelation Responsibly: Uncivil Worship and Witness—Following the Lamb into the New Creation, Gorman offers a reorientation to Revelation's central vision: worshipping the Lamb, resisting idolatrous power, and embodying faithful discipleship in the world. Together they discuss Revelation's misuses in popular culture, its critique of empire and nationalism, and its invitation to follow the crucified and risen Christ into the new creation. Episode Highlights "The book of Revelation is about lamb power—not hyper-religious or political power. It's about absorbing rather than inflicting evil." "This book is for those who are confused by, afraid of, and or preoccupied with the book of Revelation." "We shouldn't look for predictions but for parallels and analogies." "Worship, discipleship, and new creation—that's where Revelation hangs its hat." "At its root, Christian nationalism is a form of idolatry." "The only way to come out of Babylon is to go back into Babylon with new values and new practices." Helpful Links and Resources Reading Revelation Responsibly – https://www.amazon.com/Reading-Revelation-Responsibly-Following-Creation/dp/1606085603/ Reverse Thunder by Eugene Peterson – https://www.amazon.com/Reversed-Thunder-Revelation-Praying-Imagination/dp/0060665033 St. Mary's Seminary & University, Baltimore – https://www.stmarys.edu About Michael J. Gorman Michael J. Gorman is the Raymond E. Brown Professor of Biblical Studies and Theology at St. Mary's Seminary & University in Baltimore, Maryland. A leading New Testament scholar, he is the author of numerous books on Pauline theology and Revelation, including Reading Revelation Responsibly, Cruciformity, and Participating in Christ. Gorman's teaching and writing emphasize Scripture as a call to cruciform discipleship, faithful worship, and the hope of new creation. Show Notes Introducing Reading Revelation Responsibly "This book is for those who are confused by, afraid of, and or preoccupied with the Book of Revelation." "Apocalypse" means revelation, not destruction. Emerging from twenty-five years of study and teaching, aimed at rescuing Revelation from misinterpretation or neglect Growing up amid 1970s end-times obsession—Hal Lindsey's The Late Great Planet Earth and fearful youth-group predictions of the world's end Fear of the book of Revelation until he studied it with Bruce Metzger at Princeton Seminary Why he wrote the book: for people who have been scared or confused by Revelation's misuse Interpretation and misreading the book of Revelation Early questions: Does Revelation predict particular events or people? No predictions, but symbolic speaking into every age "Our task is not to find predictions but to discern parallels and analogies." Warning against mapping Revelation onto modern crises or personalities "When those predictions fail, the book gets sidelined or scoffed at." Keep one foot in the first-century context and one in the present Worship and discipleship The heart of Revelation is worship. "This is a book about worship—and about the object of our worship." Explaining the subtitle: Uncivil Worship and Witness—Following the Lamb into the New Creation "Uncivil worship" contrasts with "civil religion"—worship that refuses to idolize political power Influence from Eugene Peterson's Reverse Thunder and his own teaching at St. Mary's, where Peterson once taught Revelation Worship leads to discipleship: "Those who follow the Lamb wherever he goes." True discipleship mirrors the Lamb's humility and non-violence. The lamb and the meaning of power Interpreting Revelation's vision of the slain and standing Lamb as the key to understanding divine power "The crucified Messiah is the risen Lord—but he remains the crucified one." The Lamb appears twenty-eight times, a symbol of universality and completeness. "Revelation is about lamb power—absorbing rather than inflicting evil." Discipleship is cruciform: following the Lamb's way of self-giving love. The unholy trinity and the danger of idolatry Chapters 12–13 depict the dragon and two beasts—the "unholy trinity" of satanic, imperial, and religious power. "Power gone amok": political, military, and spiritual domination that mimic divinity How true worship resists empire and exposes idolatry Warning against reading these beasts as predictions of the UN or the pope; rather, they reveal recurring alliances of religion and politics "At its root, Christian nationalism is idolatry." When political identity eclipses discipleship, "political power always wins, and faith loses." Faith, politics, and worship today Christian nationalism as a modern form of "civil religion," conflating patriotism with divine will "It's only Christian in name—it lacks Christian substance." Idolatry is not limited to one side: "It permeates the left, the right, and probably the centre." Labberton agrees: false worship is endemic wherever self-interest and fear shape our loves. Both stress that Revelation calls the church to worship the Lamb, not the state. "Revelation critiques all human systems of false worship." Revelation's goal: Not destruction, but new creation "Destruction is penultimate—cleansing the way for renewal." Believers already live as citizens of that new creation. "The only way to come out of Babylon is to go back into Babylon with new values and new practices." Communal, not merely individual, discipleship: "Revelation is written to churches, not just believers." Reinterpreting Revelation 3:20: Jesus knocking isn't an altar call to unbelievers but Christ seeking re-entry into his own church. "Jesus always wants to come back in." Living revelation today Spirituality of hope, not fear or withdrawal "Reading Revelation responsibly means engaging the world through worship and witness." How true worship is dangerous because it transforms our allegiance. "Following the Lamb into the new creation is the church's act of resistance." Conclusion: "Worthy is the Lamb." Production Credits Conversing is produced and distributed in partnership with Comment magazine and Fuller Seminary.  

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Ever wonder why the Bible ends with dragons, cosmic battles, and a woman giving birth in space? Turns out, Revelation 12 isn't trying to predict the future or scare you—it's doing something far more interesting. This passage takes everything the Bible has been saying about good, evil, death, and resurrection and cranks it up to high definition. Drawing on Eugene Peterson's insight that Revelation is meant to "revive our imagination" rather than give us new information, this sermon explores how ancient apocalyptic imagery speaks directly to our current moment of chaos and uncertainty. Whether you're familiar with the book of Revelation or have always found it confusing, you'll walk away with a fresh perspective on why these strange, vivid stories might be exactly what we need right now.

October 19, 2025 "Living together in a way that evokes the glad song of Psalm 133 is one of the great and arduous tasks before Christ's people. Nothing requires more attention and energy. It is easier to do almost anything else" -Eugene Peterson

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Reconstructing Scripture: From Solo to Symphony While many of the ideas and practices handed down to us about God and the church may have shifted, there is something about Jesus we still find compellingly beautiful. Often, after letting go of what wasn't working, we struggle to find a way forward that shapes our lives to mirror the Beloved Community of God.  Our Fall Vision series, Reconstructing Rhythms, continues with Christopher Mack gathering us to for the practice of Lectio divina as a way of stepping into God's Story, even as we find it infusing in our being. [Mark 12:28-34] Reflection  How does the relational nature of this scripture conversation between Jesus and the scribe impact how you might reflect on scripture? Where do you experience the disconnect in your life from hearing scripture and embodying it? How might our experience of scripture be different if we try making a meal of it (formational) instead of reading it for helpful or inspiring bits (informational)? Resource Book: Spiritual Disciplines Handbook: Practices that Transform Us by Adele Ahlberg Calhoun Book: Opening to God: Lectio Divina nad Life as Prayer by David Brenner Book: Solo: An Uncommon Devotional by Eugene Peterson, Jan Johnson, J.R. Briggs, and Katie Peckham Book: Eat This Book: A Conversation in the Art of Spiritual Reading by Eugene Peterson PDF: Vox Veniae Lectio Divina

"Our faith is not about how well we do our faith."— Scarlet HiltibidalToday's Episode: Join Natalie Abbott and Scarlet Hiltibidal as they discuss what it looks like to actually live by faith and instead of trusting in more tangible things. It's messy, and it often feels precarious, but it's so good. Scarlet talks about how she's seen God show up in the midst of cross-country moves and sad days and her mom's cancer diagnosis. She shares about the wonder of receiving instead of faking our faith or trying to earn God's favor. You won't want to miss this episode!This month's memory verse: "For we live by faith, not by sight." — 2 Corinthians 5:7Today's guest: Scarlet Hiltibidal is the author of “Afraid of All the Things,” “You're the Worst Person in the World,” “He Numbered the Pores on My Face,” and the “Anxious and Ashamed” Bible studies. She writes regularly for ParentLife Magazine, HomeLife Magazine, and She Reads Truth. Scarlet enjoys speaking to women around the country about the freedom and rest available in Jesus. She loves hanging out with her husband and four kids, eating nachos by herself, writing for her friends, and studying stand-up comedy with a passion that should be reserved for more important pursuits. Want to go even deeper in this month's verse? Study along with Natalie in the monthly Bible Study Membership. Get the first month FREE with the code: PODCAST.Love this show? Support us by leaving a review.Links from today's show: Find out all things Scarlet at ScarletHiltibidal.com. Get your copy of Scarlet's book, Hopeful-ish.Get the ESV Prayer Journals for 30% off with a free Crossway Plus account.Check out the Forever Welcomed bible study, by Oghosa Iyamu. Check out the book Scarlet recommended: A Long Obedience in the Same Direction, by Eugene Peterson.  Support the showFollow Natalie & Vera at DwellDifferently.com and @dwelldifferenly.

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Join us as Pastor Tommy continues the sermon series Here as in Heaven. Eugene Peterson described the church as a "colony of heaven in a country of death." God's desire is to bring heaven here, and this overflows into our worlds. In this message we will describe our strategy for missions based on Acts 1:8. We will emphasize the significance of Jesus' identity as King in the New Testament. We will stress that the phrase "kingdom of God" signifies God's reign and rule through Christ, encouraging repentance and belief in Jesus' message, urging us to prioritize God's kingdom in our lives. We will discuss the importance of recognizing Jesus as the Anointed One and the impact of this understanding on evangelism.References: Acts 1:8 & Matthew 28:16-20To get connected visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.midtownvineyardchurch.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠...To Donate ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://midtownvineyard.churchcenter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.... Download the church center app to stay in the loop ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://churchcenter.com/setup⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Discover more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.midtownvineyardchurch.com...⁠⁠⁠ us on Instagram: / midtownvineyard Find us on Facebook: / midtownvineyardmbSermon Notes: Rightnowmedia.com

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Join us as Pastor Tommy continues the sermon series Here as in Heaven. Eugene Peterson described the church as a "colony of heaven in a country of death." God's desire is to bring heaven here, and this requires practice in community. In this message we will will share about our small groups that we have here and encourage everyone to experience communities of formation.References: Acts 2:42-47To get connected visit ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.midtownvineyardchurch.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠...To Donate ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://midtownvineyard.churchcenter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.... Download the church center app to stay in the loop ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://churchcenter.com/setup⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Discover more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.midtownvineyardchurch.com...⁠⁠⁠ us on Instagram: / midtownvineyard Find us on Facebook: / midtownvineyardmbSermon Notes: Rightnowmedia.com

In this episode of the Unhurried Living Podcast, we explore the difference between work that flows from grace and love, and work that drains us because it’s fueled by fear, insecurity, or people-pleasing. Together we’ll talk about holy rhythms of work and rest, and what it looks like to return to the “easy yoke” of Jesus. If you’ve been feeling weary, overextended, or caught in workaholism, this conversation offers hope: you can lead from rest rather than rush. What You’ll Take Away from This Episode: How to discern between grace-energized work and soul-draining drivenness. Why busyness, according to Eugene Peterson, is not productivity but a form of laziness. The danger of “false vines” that drain life rather than nourish it. Small, sustainable practices for weaving sabbath and reflection into daily rhythms. How contemplative practices root us in God’s presence so our work becomes overflow, not overextension. Resources & References Mentioned in This Episode: Subversive Spirituality by Eugene Peterson New Seeds of Contemplation by Thomas Merton The Sayings of the Desert Fathers (various translations available) The Spiritual Life by Evelyn Underhill Jesus’ teaching on the easy yoke (Matthew 11:28–30) and the vine and branches (John 15) Connect with Alan on LinkedIn or learn more about Unhurried Living programs on their website. Learn about PACE: Certificate in Leadership and Soul Care Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Reality and Faith Prompts1. What are the formations or structures for how you know you are in reality in regards to your faith? Do you have indicators? Internal senses? External resources? 2. Who are you in active dialogue with in regards to your faith? Who that is living and who that is passed on? 3. When you encounter dissonance with your reality of faith, how do you stay grounded in your experience?TranscriptsDanielle (00:00):To my computer. So thank you Starlet. Thank you Tamis for being with me. I've given already full introductions. I've recorded those separately. So the theme of the conversation and kind of what we're getting into on this podcast this season is I had this vision for talking about the themes have been race, faith, culture, church in the past on my podcast. But what I really think the question is, where is our reality and where are our touchpoints in those different realms? And so today there's going to be more info on this in the future, but where do we find reality and how do we form our reality when we integrate faith? So one of the questions I was asking Tamis and Starlet was what are the formations or structures for how you know are in reality in regards to your faith? Do you have indicators? Do you have internal senses? Do you have external resources? And so that's where I want to jump off from and it's free flow. I don't do a whole lot of editing, but yeah, just curious where your mind goes when you hear that, what comes to mind and we'll jump from there.Starlette (01:12):I immediately thought of baptism, baptismal waters. My baptismal identity forms and shapes me. It keeps me in touch with my body. It keeps me from being disembodied. Also, it keeps me from being swindled out of authority over my body due to the dangerous irrationalism of white body supremacy. So that's one thing. Protest also keeps me grounded. I have found that acts of defiance, minor personal rebellions, they do well for me. They keep me spiritually that I feel like it keeps me in step with Jesus. And I always feel like I'm catching up that I'm almost stepping on his feet. So for me, baptismal identity and protesting, those are the two things come to me immediately.Tamice (02:04):Whoa, that's so deep. Wow, I never thought about that. But I never thought about protests being a thing that groundsBecause I mean I've just been, for me I would say I've been working on the right so, and y'all know me, so I got acronyms for days. But I mean I think that the radical ethical spirituality that's tethered to my tradition, that's a rule of life, but it's also a litmus test. So for me, if you can't tell the truth, we don't have conversations about non-violence and loving enemies. I don't get to ethical spirituality unless you come through the front door of truth telling and truth telling in that sense of the r. And the rest arrest mix tape is radical. Angela Davis says radical and that's grasping stuff at the root. So before we have conversations about forgiveness for instance, or Jesus or scripture or what is right and what is moral, it's very important that we first tell the truth about the foundations of those realities and what we even mean by those terms and whose those terms serve and where they come from. I talk about it asking to see the manager. We need see the manager(03:24):Me that grounds me is now if something comes in and it calls me to move in a different way or corrects me or checks me in a certain way, I say yes to it if it comes through the door of truth telling because it means I also got to be true and tell the truth to myself. So that keeps me grounded. That kind of acronym is kind of how I move, but it's also how I keep toxic ways of doing religion out. And I also have come back into relationship with trees and grass and the waters and that's been really powerful for moving down into different types of intelligence. For me, the earth has been pulling me into a different way of knowing and being in that part brings me to ancestors. Just like you starlet my ancestors, I keep finding them in the trees and in the water and in the wind. So it's like, well I need them real bad right now. So that's where I'm kind of grounding myself these days.But to your point about grounding and protest, I feel most compelled to show up in spaces where the ground is crying out screaming. I feel like it beckons me there. And we talked about the most recent news of Trey being found and you talked about truth telling and what resonated immediately. And it didn't sit right with me that African-American people, people of African descent know not to take their lives in that way because of the traumatic history that when you say things like you don't suspect any foul play, it sounds like what has historically been named as at the hands of persons unknown where that no one is held responsible for the death of African-American people. That's what ties it in for me. And I feel like it's an ancestral pool that they didn't leave this way, they didn't leave in the way that they were supposed to, that something stinks and that they're crying out to say, can you hear me? Come over here Terry a while here. Don't leave him here. Don't let up on it because we didn't call him here somebody. So I love that you said that you are, feel yourself being grounded in and call back to the earth because I do feel like it speaks to us,But there are telltale signs in it and that the trees will tell us too. And so I didn't have a hand in this. It was forced on me and I saw it all come and talk to me. Put your hand here, put your head here and you can hear me scream and then you can hear me scream, you can hear him scream. He was calling out the whole time. That's what I believe in. That's how I test reality. I tested against what the earth is saying like you said, but I think we have to walk the ground a bit. We have to pace the ground a bit. We can't just go off of what people are saying. Back to your point about truth telling, don't trust nobody I don't trust. I don't trust anybody that's going to stop because you can't fix a lie. So if you're going to come in with deception, there's not much else I can do with you. There's not much I can say to you. And I find that white body supremacy is a supreme deception. So if we can't start there in a conversation, there's nothing that I can say to youTamice (06:46):That's facts. It's interesting that you talked about baptism, you talked about grounding and I had this story pop up and while you were talking again it popped up again. So I'm going to tell it. So we are not going to talk about who and all the things that happened recently, but I had made some comments online around that and around just the choice to be blind. So I've been talking a lot about John nine and this passage where it is very clear to everyone else what's happening, but the people who refuse to see, refuse to see.So in that, I was kind of pulled into that. I was in Mississippi, I was doing some stuff for the book and this lady, a chaplain, her name is Sally Bevin, actually Sally Bevel, she walked up to me, she kept calling me, she was like, Tam me, she want to come. I have my whole family there. We were at the Mississippi Book Fair and she kept saying, Tam me, she want to come join, dah, dah, dah. Then my family walked off and they started to peruse and then she asked me again and I was like, no, I'm good. And I was screaming. I mean I'm looking in the screen and the third time she did it, it pulled me out and I was like, this woman is trying to pull me into being present. And she said to me, this is funny, starlet. I said, I feel like I need to be washed and I need a baptism because this phone feels like so on right now and the wickedness is pulling me. So she poured, she got some ice, cold water, it was 95 degrees, poured cold water on my hands, had me wash my hands and she took the cold water. She put a cross on my forehead. And you know what she said to me? She said, remember your baptism?She said, remember your baptism? And when I was baptized, even though it was by a man who will not also be named, when I was baptized the wind, there was a whirlwind at my baptism. It was in 2004, that same wind hit in Mississippi and then I felt like I was supposed to take my shoes off. So I walked around the Mississippi Festival with no shoes on, not knowing that the earth was about to receive two people who did not deserve to be hung from trees. And there's something very, I feel real talk, I feel afraid for white supremacy right now in the name of my ancestors and I feel like I'm calling on everything right now. And that's also grounding me.Starlette (09:36):I was with Mother Moses last week. I went to Dorchester County just to be with her because the people were here. Take me. I said, I'll leave them all here. I know you said there are a few here, but give me the names, give me the last names of the people because I don't have time for this. I see why she left people. I see why she was packing. So to your point, I think it's important that we talk to the ancestors faithfully, religiously. We sit down at their feet and listen for a bit about how they got over and how they got through it and let them bear witness to us. And she does it for me every time, every single time she grounds, she grounds meDanielle (10:23):Listening to you all. I was like, oh wait. It is like Luke 19 where Jesus is coming in on the show and he didn't ride in on the fanciest plane on a donkey. And if you're familiar with that culture that is not the most elevated animal, not the elevated animal to ride, it's not the elevated animal. You don't eat it. Not saying that it isn't eaten at times, but it's not right. So he rides in on that and then people are saying glory to God in the highest and they're praising him and the Pharisees are like, don't do that because it's shameful and I don't remember the exact words, but he's basically be quiet. The rocks are going to tell the story of what happened here. He's walking his way. It kind of reminds me to me. So what you're saying, he's walking away, he's going to walk and he's going to walk that way and he's going to walk to his death. He's walking it in two scenarios that Jesus goes in to talk about. Your eyes are going to be blind to peace, to the real way to peace. It's going to be a wall put around you and you're going to miss out. People are going to destroy you because you missed your chance.Starlette (11:50):Point again creation. And if you're going to be a rock headed people, then I'll recruit this rock choir. They get ready to rock out on you. If there's nothing you're going to say. So even then he says that creation will bear witness against you. You ain't got to do it. You ain't got to do it. I can call these rock. You can be rock headed if you want to. You can be stony hearted if you want to. I can recruit choir members from the ground,Tamice (12:16):But not even that because y'all know I'm into the quantum and metaphysics. Not even that they actually do speak of course, like words are frequencies. So when you hold a certain type of element in your hand, that thing has a frequency to it. That's alright that they said whatever, I don't need it from you. Everything else is tapped into this.Starlette (12:39):Right. In fact, it's the rocks are tapped into a reality. The same reality that me and this donkey and these people throwing stuff at my feet are tapped into.You are not tapped into reality. And so that's why he makes the left and not the right because typically when a person is coming to Saka city, they head towards the temple. He went the other direction because he is like it was a big fuck. I don't use power like this. And actually what I'm about to do is raise you on power. This is a whole different type of power. And that's what I feel like our ancestors, the realities that the alternative intelligence in the world you're talking about ai, the alternative intelligence in the world is what gives me every bit of confidence to look this beast in the face and call it what it is. This isTamice (13:52):And not going to bow to it. And I will go down proclaiming it what it is. I will not call wickedness good.And Jesus said, Jesus was so when he talks about the kingdom of heaven suffering violence and the violence taken it by force, it's that it's like there's something so much more violent about being right and righteous. Y'all have to use violence because you can't tell the truth.Danielle (14:29):Do you see the split two? There's two entirely different realities happening. Two different kingdoms, two entirely different ways of living in this era and they're using quote J, but it's not the same person. It can't be, you cannot mix white Jesus and brown Jesus. They don't go together. TheyStarlette (15:00):Don't, what is it? Michael O. Emerson and Glenn e Bracy. The second they have this new book called The Religion of Whiteness, and they talk about the fact that European Americans who are racialized as white Tahi says those who believe they are white. He says that there's a group of people, the European Americans who are racialized as white, who turn to scripture to enforce their supremacy. And then there's another group of people who turn to scripture to support and affirm our sibling.It is two different kingdoms. It's funny, it came to me the other day because we talk about, I've talked about how for whiteness, the perception of goodness is more important than the possession of it.You know what I mean? So mostly what they do is seek to be absolved. Right? So it's just, and usually with the being absolved means I'm less bad than that, so make that thing more bad than me and it's a really terrible way to live a life, but it is how whiteness functions, and I'm thinking about this in the context of all that is happening in the world because it's like you cannot be good and racist period. And that's as clear as you cannot love God and mammon you will end up hating one and loving the other. You cannot love God. You cannotStarlette (16:29):Love God and hate your next of kin your sibling. Dr. Angela Parker says something really important During the Wild Goose Festival, she asked the participants there predominantly European American people, those racialized as white. She said, do you all Terry, do you Terry, do you wait for the Holy Spirit? Do you sit with yourself and wait for God to move? And it talked, it spoke to me about power dynamic. Do you feel like God is doing the moving and you wait for the spirit to anoint you, to fill you, to inspire you, to baptize you with fire? You Terry, do you wait a while or do you just the other end of that that she doesn't say, do you just get up? I gave my life to Jesus and it's done right handed fellowship, give me my certificate and walk out the door. You have to sit with yourself and I don't know what your tradition is.I was raised Pentecostal holiness and I had to tear all night long. I was on my knees calling on the name of Jesus and I swear that Baba couldn't hear me. Which octave do you want me to go in? I lost my voice. You know them people, them mothers circled me with a sheet and told me I didn't get it that night that I had to come back the next day after I sweat out my down, I sweat out my press. Okay. I pressed my way trying to get to that man and they told me he didn't hear me. He not coming to get you today. I don't hear a change. They were looking for an evidence of tongues. They didn't hear an evidence, a change speech. You still sound the way that you did when you came in here. And I think that white body supremacy, that's where the problem lies with me. There's no difference. I don't hear a change in speech. You're still talking to people as if you can look down your nose with them. You have not been submerged in the water. You did not go down in the water. White supremacy, white body supremacy has not been drowned out.Terry, you need to Terry A. Little while longer. I'll let you know when you've gotten free. When you've been lifted, there's a cloud of witnesses. Those mothers rubbing your back, snapping your back and saying, call on him. Call him like you want him. Call him like you need him and they'll tell you when they see evidence, they'll let you, you know when you've been tied up, tangled up. That's what we would say. Wrapped up in Jesus and I had to come back a second night and call on the Lord and then they waited a while. They looked, they said, don't touch her, leave her alone. He got her now, leave her alone. But there was an affirmation, there was a process. You couldn't just get up there and confess these ABCs and salvation, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, nah. Why do you think they'll let you know when you got it?Danielle (18:56):Why do you think that happened? Why? I have a question for You'all. Why do you think that became the reality of the prayer in that moment? And we're talking about Africans that have been brought here and enslaved. Why do you think that happened on our soil that way? Why question?Tamice (19:12):I mean I'm wondering about it because when stylists talk and I keep thinking the Terry in and of itself is a refusal. It says what I see is not real. What's in front of me is not right. I'm going to wait for something else.I'm saying, the slave Bible, them taking stuff out of the Bible and it's like, but I feel like the ground, there was something about the ground that indigenous people, that indigenous people were able to help them tap into over here. It was waiting on that.Starlette (19:49):We didn't have punishment. We had a percussion session. So they ring shouted me. I didn't know what it was at the time. We didn't have all the fancy stuff. Everybody had put me in key. We didn't have, we had this and feet them people circled around me. We don't do that no more.Danielle (20:06):We don't do that no more. But don't you think if you're a person that is, and I believe Africans came here with faith already. Oh yes, there's evidence of that. So put that aside, but don't you think then even if you have that faith and it's not so different than our time and you're confronted with slave owners and plantation owners also preaching quote the same faith that you're going to have to test it out on your neighbor when they're getting saved. You're going to have to make sure they didn't catch that bug.Don't you think there's something in there? Block it. Don't you think if you know faith internally already like we do and run into someone that's white that's preaching the same thing, we have to wait it out with them. Don't you think our ancestors knew that when they were here they were waiting it out. I just noticed my spirit match that spirit. We have to wait it out. Yes, because and let's say they didn't know Jesus. Some people didn't know Jesus and they met Jesus here for whatever reason, and your example is still the white man. You have to wait it out to make sure you're not reflecting that evilness. I mean that's what I'm thinking. That's it's the absolutelyStarlette (21:20):Truth. There's a book titled Slave Testimony, and I know this because I just read about it. There's a testimony of an enslaved African-American, he's unnamed. It was written on June 26th, 1821. He's talking to Master John. He said, I want permission to speak to you if you please. He talked about, he said, where is it? Where is it? A few words. I hope that you will not think Me too bull. Sir, I make my wants known to you because you are, I believe the oldest and most experienced that I know of. He says in the first place, I want you to tell me the reason why you always preach to the white folks and keep your back to us is because they sit up on the hill. We have no chance among them there. We must be forgotten because we are near enough. We are not near enough without getting in the edge of the swamp behind you. He was calling him to account. He said, when you sell me, do you make sure that I'm sold to a Christian or heathen?He said, we are charged with inattention because of where their position. He said it's impossible for us to pay good attention with this chance. In fact, some of us scarce think that we are preached to it all. He says, money appears to be the object. We are carried to market and sold to the highest bidder. Never once inquired whether you sold to a heathen or a Christian. If the question was put, did you sell to a Christian, what would the answer be? I can tell you, I can tell what he was, gave me my price. That's all I was interested in. So I don't want people to believe that Africans who were enslaved did not talk back, did not speak back. They took him to task. He said, everybody's not literate. There's about one in 50 people who are, and I'm one of them and I may not be able to speak very well, but this is what I want to tell you. I can tell the difference. I know that you're not preaching to me the same. I know that when you talk about salvation, you're not extending it to me.Yikes. You need to know that our people, these ancestors, not only were they having come to Jesus meetings, but they were having come to your senses, meeting with their oppressor and they wrote it down. They wrote it down. I get sick of the narratives that we are not our answer. Yes we are. Yes I am. I'm here because of them. I think they called me. I think they call me here. I think the fussing that I make, the anger that I possess this need to resist every damn thing. I think they make me do thatTamice (23:35):Indeed, I think. But I didn't get my voice until they took the MLE off, had an honor with my ancestors and they came and they told me it's time. Take that mle off, MLE off. Shoot. Why Jesus ain't tell me to take no muzzle off. I'm going to tell you that now.Danielle (23:52):That's why I mean many indigenous people said, Jesus didn't come back for me because if that guy's bringing me Jesus, then now Jesus didn't come back for me.Starlette (24:07):Come on.Make it plain. Danielle, go ahead. Go ahead. Walk heavy today. Yeah, I meanDanielle (24:17):I like this conversation. Why Jesus, why Jesus didn't come back for us, the three of us. He didn't come back for us. It didn't come back from kids. He didn't come back for my husband. Nope. And so then therefore that we're not going to find a freedom through that. No, that's no desire to be in that.Tamice (24:33):None. And that's what I mean and making it very, very plain to people like, listen, I actually don't want to be in heaven with your Jesus heaven. With your Jesus would be hell. I actually have one,Starlette (24:47):The one that they had for us, they had an N word heaven for us where they would continue to be served and they wrote it down. It's bad for people who are blio foes who like to read those testimonies. It is bad for people who like to read white body supremacy For Phil. Yeah, they had one for us. They had separate creation narratives known as polygenetic, but they also had separate alon whereby they thought that there was a white heaven and an inward heaven.I didn't even know that. Starla, I didn't even know that because they said they want to make sure their favorite slave was there to serve them. Oh yes, the delusion. People tell me that they're white. I really do push back for a reason. What do you mean by that? I disagree with all of it. What part of it do you find agreeable? The relationship of ruling that you maintain over me? The privilege. White power. Which part of it? Which part of it is good for you and for me? How does it help us maintain relationship as Christians?Danielle (25:47):I think that's the reality and the dissonance we live in. Right?Starlette (25:51):That's it. But I think there needs to be a separation.Are you a white supremacist or not?Tamice (26:03):That's what I'm saying. That's why I keep saying, listen, at this point, you can't be good and racist. Let me just say that. Oh no, you got to pickStarlette (26:12):And I need to hear itTamice (26:13):Both. Yeah. I need you to public confession of it.Starlette (26:19):Someone sent me a dm. I just want to thank you for your work and I completely agree. I quickly turned back around. I said, say it publicly. Get out of my dms. Say it publicly. Put it on your page. Don't congratulate me. Within two minutes or so. I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to disturb you. You are right. Okay. Okay. Okay. Did he post anything? No. Say it publicly. Denounce them. Come out from among them.Very, very plain. As a white supremacist or na, as a kid, as children. HowDanielle (26:56):Hard is it? I think that's what made this moment so real and it's a kind of a reality. Fresher actually for everybody to be honest, because it's a reality. All certain things have been said. All manner of things have been said by people. This is just one example of many people that have said these things. Not the only person that's lived and died and said these things. And then when you say, Hey, this was said, someone's like, they didn't say that. You're like, no, some people put all their content on the internet receipts. They did it themselves. That's not true. And I went to a prayer vigil. I didn't go. I sat outside a prayer vigil this weekend and I listened in and they were praying for the resurrection like Jesus of certain people that have passed on. I kid you, I sat there in the car with a friend of mine and then my youngest daughter had come with me just to hang out. She's like, what are they praying for? I was like, they're like, they were praying for a certain person to be resurrected from the dead just like Jesus. And I was so confused. I'm so confused how we got that far, honestly. But I told my kid, I said, this is a moment of reality for you. This is a moment to know. People think like this.Starlette (28:13):Also, white bodyDanielle (28:14):Supremacy is heresy. Yes. It's not even related to the Bible. Not at all.Why I steal away. This is why even the mistranslated Bible, even the Bible that you could take,Starlette (28:33):ThisThe version Danielle started. If you wouldn't have said that, I wouldn't have said that. This is exactly why I steal away. This is exactly why I leave. Because you can't argue with people like that. Now we're resurrected. IAll I need, it's like away. This is exactly why, because I can't hear what Howard Thurman calls the sound of the genuine in that. It's just not going to happen.Danielle (29:01):Can you imagine what would've happened if we would've prayed for George Floyd to be resurrected? Listen, what would've happenedStarlette (29:08):That he called the scumbag.Danielle (29:10):Yeah, but what would've happened if we would've played for their resurrection? Adam, Adam Polito. ThatStarlette (29:19):Was foundTamice (29:19):Psychosis.Starlette (29:21):Yeah. What would've happened? See, don't push me now. I feel like I need to pack. As soon as I said fill away, it's like people keep saying, what are you going to do if gets worse? I'm going to leave my, I'll sell all this crapAbout this stuff. This booby trap of capitalism. I'll it all don't about none of it. What matters most to me is my sense of ness. And when you get to talking, I almost said talking out the side of your neck. Jesus God, today, lemme God Jesus of your neck. You just need to know that's a cultural thing. That's going to have to be reevaluated. God. It just came right on out. Oh Lord. When you start saying things that go against my sense of ness that you think that I have to defend my personhood, that you want to tell me that I don't exist as a person. I don't exist as a human. Back to your reality testament. It's time for me to leave. I'm not staying here and fighting a race war or a civil war. You mamas are just violent. It's what you've always been.Tamice (30:28):Why would I stand in the middle? Why would I stand in the middle of what I know is a confrontation with yourself?Starlette (30:36):Oh, okay. Alright. I'm going to justTamice (30:38):You all. What happened last week is it, it is a confrontation with a really disturbed self and they're trying to flip it. Oh yes. They're trying to make it. Yes. But this is like, I'm trying to tell people out here, this is beyond you, Jack, that was a prophetic witness against you because now you see that what you're fighting is the mirror. Keep me out of it. I won't fight your wars. Keep me out of it. Look, James Baldwin said, y'all have to decide and figure out why you needed a nigger in the first place.I'm not a nigger. I'm a man. But you, the white people need to figure out why you created the nigger in the first place. Fuck, this is not my problem. This is a y'all and I don't have anything invested in this. All I'm trying to do is raise my kids, man. Come on. Get out of here with that. I'm sorry.Danielle (31:48):No, you keep going and then go back to starlet. Why do you think then they made her Terry? They had to make sure she doesn't buy into that. That's my opinion.Tamice (32:00):It's funny too because I see, I mean, I wasn't Pentecostal. I feel like who's coming to mind as soon as you said that de y'all know I'm hip hop. Right? So KRS one.Starlette (32:12):Yes. Consciousness.Tamice (32:14):The mind. Oh yes, the mind, the imagination. He was, I mean from day one, trying to embed that in the youth. Like, Hey, the battlefield is the mind. Are you going to internalize this bullshit?Are you going to let them name you?Starlette (32:34):This is the word.Tamice (32:34):Are you going to let them tell you what is real for the people of God? That's That's what I'm saying, man. Hip hop, hip hop's, refusal has been refusal from day one. That's why I trust it.Because in seen it, it came from the bottom of this place. It's from the bottom of your shoe. It tells the truth about all of this. So when I listen to hip hop, I know I'm getting the truth.Starlette (32:57):Yeah. EnemyObjection. What did public enemy say? Can't trust it. Can't trust it. No, no, no, no. You got to play it back. We got to run all that back.Danielle (33:11):I just think how it's so weaponized, the dirt, the bottom of the shoe, all of that stuff. But that's where we actually, that's what got it. Our bodies hitting the road, hitting the pavement, hitting the grass, hitting the dirt. That's how we know we're in reality because we've been forced to in many ways and have a mindset that we are familiar with despite socioeconomic changes. We're familiar with that bottom place.Tamice (33:38):Yeah. I mean, bottom place is where God is at. That's what y'all don't understand. God comes from black, dark dirt, like God is coming from darkness and hiddenness and mystery. You don't love darkness. You don't love GodStarlette (33:56):Talk. Now this bottom place is not to be confused with the sunken place that some of y'all are in. I just want to be clear. I just want to be clear and I'm not coming to get you. Fall was the wrong day. TodayI think it's good though because there's so much intimidation in other communities at times. I'm not saying there's not through the lynchings, ongoing lynchings and violence too and the threats against colleges. But it's good for us to be reminded of our different cultural perspectives and hear people talk with power. Why do you think Martin Luther King and Cesar Chavez wrote letters to each other? They knew something about that and knew something about it. They knew something about it. They knew something about why it's important to maintain the bonds. Why we're different, why we're similar. They knew something about it. So I see it as a benefit and a growth in our reality. That is actually what threatens that, that relationship, that bond, that connection, that speaking life into one another. That's what threatens that kingdom that you're talking about. Yeah.You just can't fake an encounter either.When I was tear, no matter what I've decolonized and divested from and decentered, I cannot deny that experience. I know that God was present. I know that God touched me. So when mother even made sister, even made, my grandmother would call me when I was in college, first person to go to college. In our family, she would say before she asked about classes or anything else, and she really didn't know what to ask. She only had a sixth grade education. But her first question was always you yet holding on?Right. She holding on. And I said, yes ma'am. Yes ma'am. Then she would, because it didn't matter if you couldn't keep the faith. There really wasn't nothing else for her to talk to you about. She was going to get ready to evangelize and get you back because you backslid. But that was her first thing. But what I've learned since then is that I can let go.The amazing thing is that the spirit is guiding me. I didn't let go all together. You got it. You got it. If it's real, if you're real, prove it. Demonstrate it. I'm getting chills now talk to me without me saying anything, touch me. I shouldn't have to do anything. Eugene Peterson says that prayer is answering speech. In fact, the only reason why I'm praying is because you said something to me first. It's not really on me to do anything. Even with the tear. I was already touched. I was already called. The reason why I was on my knees and pleading is because I'd already been compelled. Something had had already touched me. FirstThey called Holy Spirit. The hound of heaven. Damn right was already on my heels. I was already filled before I could even refuse. I was like, I don't want this. I'm going to always be star Jonah, get your people. I prefer fish guts. Throw me overboard. I don't like these people. Certified prophet because I don't want to do it. I never want to do it. I'm not interested at all. I have no too much history. I've had to deal with too much white body supremacy and prejudice and racism to want anything to do with the church. I see it for what? It's I'll never join one. By the way, are we recording? Is it on? I'm never joining a church ever. Until you all desegregate.You desegregate. Then we can talk about your ministry of reconciliation. Until then, you don't have one. Don't talk to me about a community day or a pulpit swap. I don't want to hear it. All Your praise. What did he say? A clinging, stumble, put away from me. Your conferences, all your multiracial. I don't want to hear none of it. Desegregate that part desegregate you, hypocrites, woe unto all of you white supremacists. If nobody ever told you that's not God. It's not of God. So I don't, for me, my reality is so above me, I know that Paul, because when I don't want to say anything, somebody is in my ear. Somebody was talking to me this morning. Somebody was writing a note in my ear. I had to get up. I said, please. I'm like, now I'm not even awake all the way. Stop talking to me. You can't fake that as much as I push against the Holy Spirit. You can't fake that. I don't want to do it. I don't want to say it. I'm of saying it. And yet I get up in the morning and it's like, say this, that post that. Write that. Somebody else is doing that. That's not me.As the mothers say, my flesh is weak. My flesh is not willing at all. I want to, all of y'all can go on. I'll pack this up and move somewhere else. Let them fight it to the death. I'm not going to, this is just my flesh speaking. Forgive me. Okay. This Raceless gospel is a calling friends. It's a calling. It's a calling, which means you coming into it. I'm an itinerant prophet. I'm heavy into the Hebrew scriptures. I come up with every excuse. My throat hurts. I got a speech impediment. The people don't like me. I'm not educated. It don't work. You need to know when people come to you and say, y'all need to get together, God speaking to you, the Pendo is coming. That's not like an invitation. That's kind of like a threat whether you want it or not. You're getting together.Everybody up. There's a meal ready, there's a banquet that is set and the food is getting cold and you are the reason why the drinks are watered down. That's go. You don't hear me calling you. ComeWhat I keep hearing. You have to know that God is speaking to people and saying that there's an invitation coming and you better get right. You better get washed up. Tam me said, you better let somebody pour that water over your hands. You better get washed up and get ready for dinner. I'm calling you. Come on in this house. Come on in this house. And this house is for everybody. Martin Luther King called it the world house. Everybody's coming in and you ain't got to like it doesn't matter. Get somewhere and sit down. That's that old church mother coming out of me and lemme just confess. I didn't even want to be on here this morning. I told God I didn't feel like talking. I told the Lord and you see what happened.Promise you. I'm a child. I'm full of disobedience.I was not in the mood. I said, I don't want to talk to nobody. I'm an introvert. I don't want to deal with none of this. Get somebody else to do it and look at it.Tamice (40:39):Yeah. It's funny because I woke up this morning, I was like, I'm not, I forgot. And then after all of the news today, I was like, I just don't have it in you, but this is, wait a minute. And it was three minutes past the time. Come on. And I was like, oh, well shoot. The house is empty. Nobody's here right now. I was like, well, lemme just log on. So this is definitely, it feels like definitely our calling do feel. I feel that way. I don't have time to bullshitSo I can't get out of it. I can't go to bed. I might as well say something. It won't let me go. I cannot do deceit. I can't do it. I can't sit idly by while people lie on God. I can't do that. I can't do it. It won't let up. And I'm trying to get in my body, get in this grass and get a little space. But I'm telling you, it won't let me go. And I feel it's important, Dee, you can't stop doing what you're doing. That's right. I mean is this thing of it is beyond me. It is living out of me. It's coming through me. And there has to be a reason for this. There's got to be a reason for this. And I don't know what it is because I know my eschatology is different, but I feel like, buddy, we got to manifest this kingdom. We have to manifest it until it pushes all that shit back. Come on. I'm telling you. Till it scurries it away or renders it and null and void, I'm talking. I mean, I want the type of light and glory on my being. That wicked logic disintegrate, wicked people drop dead. I mean that just in the Bible. In the Bible where Hert falls, headlong and worms eat em. Y'all celebrate that. Why can't I think about that? It's in your scriptures or daykin and the thing breaks and the legs of this false God break. I want that. I'm here for that. I'm going after that.Danielle (43:14):You think that this is what the definition of Terry is? That we're all Terry serious. I'm rocking the whole time. I'm serious. Right. That's what I told my kids. I said, in one sense, this is a one person of many that thinks this way. So we can't devote all our conversation in our house to this man. And I said in the other sense, because Starlet was asking me before he got here, how you doing? I said, we got up and I took calls from this person and that person and I told my kids, we're still advocating and doing what we can for the neighbors that need papers. And so we're going to continue doing that. That is the right thing to do. No matter what anybody else is doing in the world, we can do this.Tamice (43:56):Yeah, that's a good call. I mean, I'm headed to, I ain't going to say where I'm going no more, but I'm headed somewhere and going to be with people who are doing some innovation, right. Thinking how do we build a different world? How do our skillsets and passions coalesce and become something other than this? So I'm excited about that. And it's like that fire, it doesn't just drive me to want to rebuke. It does drive me to want to rebuild and rethink how we do everything. And I'm willing, I mean, I know that I don't know about y'all, but I feel like this, I'm getting out of dodge, but also I'm seeking the piece of the city. I feel both. I feel like I'm not holding hands with ridiculousness and I'm not moving in foolishness. But also I'm finna seek the piece of the city. My G I'm not running from delusion. Why would I? I'm in the truth. So I don't know how that maps onto a practical life, but we're finna figure it out. Out in it. I mean, the response of leadership to what has happened is a very clear sign where we are in terms of fascism. That's a very clear sign.What else y'all are looking for To tell you what it is.Danielle (45:36):But also we're the leaders. We are, we're the leaders. They're a leader of something, but they're not the leader of us. We're the leaders. We're the leaders. So no matter what they say, no matter what hate they spew, I really love Cesar Chavez. He's like, I still go out and feed the farm worker and I don't make them get on the boycott line because if they're pushed under the dirt, then they can't see hope. So people that have more economic power, a little more privilege than the other guy, we're the leaders. We're the ones that keep showing up in love. And love is a dangerous thing for these folks. They can't understand it. They can't grasp it. It is violent for them to feel love. Bodies actually reject it. And the more we show up, you're innovating. You're speaking Starla, you're preaching. We're the leaders. They're leaders of something. They're not leaders of us. We're leaders of freedom.Tamice (46:31):Come on now. D, we're leaders of give us thisStarlette (46:34):Bomb. We're leaders of compassion. You coming in here with the Holy Ghosts, acting like one of them church mothers. We were in the room together. She put our hand on us. YouDanielle (46:43):We're the ones that can remember Trey. We're the ones that can call for justice. We don't need them to do it. They've never done it. Right. Anyway. They have never showed up for a Mexican kid. They've never showed up for a black kid. They've never done it. Right. Anyway, we're the ones that can do it now. We have access to technology. We have access to our neighbors. We can bring a meal to a friend. We can give dollars to someone that needs gas. We're the the one doing it. We're the one that doing itTamice (47:11):Fill usDanielle (47:12):Up. They cannot take away our love.Starlette (47:15):Receive the benediction.Danielle: Yeah. They can't take it away. I'm telling you, if I saw someone shooting someone I hate, I would try to save that person. I don't own guns. I don't believe in guns, period. My family, that's my personal family's belief.And I would do that. I've thought about it many times. I thought would I do it? And I think I would because I actually believe that. I believe that people should not be shot dead. I believe that for the white kid. I believe that for the Mexican kid. I believe that for the black kid, we're the people that can show up. They're not going to come out here. They're inviting us to different kind of war. We're not in that war. That's right. We have love on our side and you cannot defeat love, kill love. You can'tTamice (48:04):Kill love and you can't kill life. That's the only reason somebody would ask you to be nonviolent. That's the only way somebody would've the audacity to ask that of you. Especially if you're oppressed. If the true is truth is that you can't kill love or life, damn man. It's hard out here for a pimp.Starlette (48:38):Really. Really? Yeah. Because what I really want to say isTamice (49:27):I can't. Your testimony a lie. No. Your testimony. That would be a lie. And like I said, truth telling is important. But there are days where I could be that I could go there, but I witnessed what happened that day. I watched the video. It's just not normal to watch that happen to anybody. And I don't care who you are. And the fact that we're there is just objectively just wow. And the fact that all of the spin and do y'all not realize what just happened? Just as a actual event. Right. What? You know, I'm saying how has this turned into diatribes? Right? We need reform. I, whichDanielle (50:29):Which, okay, so I have to cut us off. I have a client coming, but I want to hear from you, given all the nuance and complexity, how are you going to take care of your body this week or even just today? It doesn't have to be genius. Just one or two things you're going to do. Oh, I'm going toTamice (50:51):Take a nap. Yeah, you taking a nap? Y'all be so proud of me. I literally just said no to five things. I was like, I'm not coming to this. I'm not doing that. I won't be at this. I'm grieving. I'm go sit in the grass. Yeah, that's what I'm doing today. And I have stuff coming up. I'm like, Nope, I'm not available.Starlette (51:14):What about you Danielle? What are you going to do?Danielle (51:16):I'm going to eat scrambled eggs with no salt. I love that. I've grown my liver back so I have to have no salt. But I do love scrambled eggs. Scrambled eggs. That's the truth. Four. Four scrambled eggs.Starlette (51:31):And we thank you for your truth. BIO:The Reverend Dr. Starlette Thomas is a poet, practical theologian, and itinerant prophet for a coming undivided “kin-dom.” She is the director of The Raceless Gospel Initiative, named for her work and witness and an associate editor at Good Faith Media. Starlette regularly writes on the sociopolitical construct of race and its longstanding membership in the North American church. Her writings have been featured in Sojourners, Red Letter Christians, Free Black Thought, Word & Way, Plough, Baptist News Global and Nurturing Faith Journal among others. She is a frequent guest on podcasts and has her own. The Raceless Gospel podcast takes her listeners to a virtual church service where she and her guests tackle that taboo trinity— race, religion, and politics. Starlette is also an activist who bears witness against police brutality and most recently the cultural erasure of the Black Lives Matter Plaza in Washington, D.C. It was erected in memory of the 2020 protests that brought the world together through this shared declaration of somebodiness after the gruesome murder of George Perry Floyd, Jr. Her act of resistance caught the attention of the Associated Press. An image of her reclaiming the rubble went viral and in May, she was featured in a CNN article.Starlette has spoken before the World Council of Churches North America and the United Methodist Church's Council of Bishops on the color- coded caste system of race and its abolition. She has also authored and presented papers to the members of the Baptist World Alliance in Zurich, Switzerland and Nassau, Bahamas to this end. She has cast a vision for the future of religion at the National Museum of African American History and Culture's “Forward Conference: Religions Envisioning Change.” Her paper was titled “Press Forward: A Raceless Gospel for Ex- Colored People Who Have Lost Faith in White Supremacy.” She has lectured at The Queen's Foundation in Birmingham, U.K. on a baptismal pedagogy for antiracist theological education, leadership and ministries. Starlette's research interests have been supported by the Louisville Institute and the Lilly Foundation. Examining the work of the Reverend Dr. Clarence Jordan, whose farm turned “demonstration plot” in Americus, Georgia refused to agree to the social arrangements of segregation because of his Christian convictions, Starlette now takes this dirt to the church. Her thesis is titled, “Afraid of Koinonia: How life on this farm reveals the fear of Christian community.” A full circle moment, she was recently invited to write the introduction to Jordan's newest collection of writings, The Inconvenient Gospel: A Southern Prophet Tackles War, Wealth, Race and Religion.Starlette is a member of the Christian Community Development Association, the Peace & Justice Studies Association, and the Koinonia Advisory Council. A womanist in ministry, she has served as a pastor as well as a denominational leader. An unrepentant academician and bibliophile, Starlette holds degrees from Buffalo State College, Colgate Rochester Crozer Divinity School and Wesley Theological Seminary. Last year, she was awarded an honorary doctorate in Sacred Theology for her work and witness as a public theologian from Wayland Baptist Theological Seminary. She is the author of "Take Me to the Water": The Raceless Gospel as Baptismal Pedagogy for a Desegregated Church and a contributing author of the book Faith Forward: A Dialogue on Children, Youth & a New Kind of Christianity. Dr. Tamice Spencer - HelmsGod is not a weapon.  Authenticity is not a phase.Meet  Tamice Spencer-Helms (they/she). Tamice is a nonprofit leader, scholar-practitioner, pastor, and theoactivist based in Richmond, Virginia. For decades, Tamice has been guided by a singular purpose: to confront and heal what they call “diseased imagination”—the spiritual and social dis-ease that stifles agency, creativity, and collective flourishing. As a pastor for spiritual fugitives,  Tamice grounds their work at the intersection of social transformation, soulful leadership, womanist and queer liberation theologies, and cultural critique.A recognized voice in theoactivism, Tamice's work bridges the intellectual and the embodied, infusing rigorous scholarship with lived experience and spiritual practice. They hold two master's degrees (theology and leadership) and a doctorate in Social Transformation. Their frameworks, such as R.E.S.T. Mixtape and Soulful Leadership, which are research and evidence-based interventions that invite others into courageous truth-telling, radical belonging, and the kind of liberating leadership our times demand.​Whether facilitating retreats, speaking from the stage, consulting for organizations, or curating digital sanctuaries, Tamice's presence is both refuge and revolution. Their commitment is to help individuals and communities heal, reimagine, and build spaces where every person is seen, known, and liberated—where diseased imagination gives way to new possibilities. Kitsap County & Washington State Crisis and Mental Health ResourcesIf you or someone else is in immediate danger, please call 911.This resource list provides crisis and mental health contacts for Kitsap County and across Washington State.Kitsap County / Local ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They OfferSalish Regional Crisis Line / Kitsap Mental Health 24/7 Crisis Call LinePhone: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/24/7 emotional support for suicide or mental health crises; mobile crisis outreach; connection to services.KMHS Youth Mobile Crisis Outreach TeamEmergencies via Salish Crisis Line: 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://sync.salishbehavioralhealth.org/youth-mobile-crisis-outreach-team/Crisis outreach for minors and youth experiencing behavioral health emergencies.Kitsap Mental Health Services (KMHS)Main: 360‑373‑5031; Toll‑free: 888‑816‑0488; TDD: 360‑478‑2715Website: https://www.kitsapmentalhealth.org/crisis-24-7-services/Outpatient, inpatient, crisis triage, substance use treatment, stabilization, behavioral health services.Kitsap County Suicide Prevention / “Need Help Now”Call the Salish Regional Crisis Line at 1‑888‑910‑0416Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/Suicide-Prevention-Website.aspx24/7/365 emotional support; connects people to resources; suicide prevention assistance.Crisis Clinic of the PeninsulasPhone: 360‑479‑3033 or 1‑800‑843‑4793Website: https://www.bainbridgewa.gov/607/Mental-Health-ResourcesLocal crisis intervention services, referrals, and emotional support.NAMI Kitsap CountyWebsite: https://namikitsap.org/Peer support groups, education, and resources for individuals and families affected by mental illness.Statewide & National Crisis ResourcesResourceContact InfoWhat They Offer988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline (WA‑988)Call or text 988; Website: https://wa988.org/Free, 24/7 support for suicidal thoughts, emotional distress, relationship problems, and substance concerns.Washington Recovery Help Line1‑866‑789‑1511Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesHelp for mental health, substance use, and problem gambling; 24/7 statewide support.WA Warm Line877‑500‑9276Website: https://www.crisisconnections.org/wa-warm-line/Peer-support line for emotional or mental health distress; support outside of crisis moments.Native & Strong Crisis LifelineDial 988 then press 4Website: https://doh.wa.gov/you-and-your-family/injury-and-violence-prevention/suicide-prevention/hotline-text-and-chat-resourcesCulturally relevant crisis counseling by Indigenous counselors.Additional Helpful Tools & Tips• Behavioral Health Services Access: Request assessments and access to outpatient, residential, or inpatient care through the Salish Behavioral Health Organization. Website: https://www.kitsap.gov/hs/Pages/SBHO-Get-Behaviroal-Health-Services.aspx• Deaf / Hard of Hearing: Use your preferred relay service (for example dial 711 then the appropriate number) to access crisis services.• Warning Signs & Risk Factors: If someone is talking about harming themselves, giving away possessions, expressing hopelessness, or showing extreme behavior changes, contact crisis resources immediately. Well, first I guess I would have to believe that there was or is an actual political dialogue taking place that I could potentially be a part of. And honestly, I'm not sure that I believe that.

 I assume most of us are familiar with The Message BibleOne of the more popular versions, and easiest to understand– Eugene Peterson did not set out to write a new translation• beginning in early 1980's the U.S. economy went into a slump and mortgage interest rates were rapidly climbing◦ people in his church were feeling the pinch, and reacting in the same way as people in townPeterson, “Paranoia infected the small talk I would overhear on street corners and in barbershops. To my dismay, all of this seeped into my congregation without encountering any resistance.”• to turn them from worldly concerns and find freedom in Jesus, he chose to immerse them in Galatians

Episode 71: Becoming: Still Enough to Listen with Cherisse Hixson Episode Description Welcome back, sweet friends! After a three-month summer sabbatical, I'm so excited to be back with you as we launch our new fall series on BECOMING. In this heartfelt episode, I'm sharing about a transformative weekend Solo Retreat that shifted everything for me - from learning to rest "between His shoulders" to discovering that it's actually NOT all up to me. If you've been feeling weary from the constant pace and pull of life, if you're longing to know Jesus more deeply, or if you're curious about what it means to slow down enough to actually hear His voice - this episode is for you. What We'll Explore Together: ✨ The beautiful gift of being completely unknown and accepted just as you are ✨ Why "silence" with Jesus is actually full of rich conversation ✨ How to create sacred containers for encountering God in the everyday ✨ Breaking free from the "if it is to be, it is up to me" mentality ✨ Learning to measure our days by the fruit of the Spirit instead of accomplishments ✨ What it means to rest securely in God's sufficiency Soul-Stirring Quotes Featured: Henri Nouwen on solitude as the place of conversion Dallas Willard on solitude as primary spiritual formation Eugene Peterson on finding our quiet center Ruth Haley Barton on silence making solitude possible Jim Branch on discovering we're not alone Scripture Anchors: Psalm 139:1-6 (You have searched me, Lord, and you know me) Deuteronomy 33:12 (Rest between His shoulders) Psalm 91:1 (Living under His shelter) Beautiful Bonus: I close our time together by reading Emily Dickinson's powerful poem "Hope" - the same words that anchored my soul during that sacred Friday morning. Connect & Continue the Journey Your soul needs this, friend. If this episode stirred something in your heart, I'd love for you to: ⭐ Leave a 5-star review - Your words help other weary souls find hope and rest in Jesus

Send me a Text Message!As we dive into the beatitudes, we immediately run into the word "Blessed." The word is used 9x's in the first 11 verses of the Sermon on the Mount. The Living Bible translates it, "fortunate, or happy."  Eugene Peterson in The Message uses the word "lucky."  What is the essence of lucky?  It's getting something you don't deserve.  In the Greek language, the word blessed is the word makairos. How do you describe, the blessed life? Makairos? What 2 or 3 things would you like to happen in your life, where if they happened, you would consider yourself "makairos."  Blessed? What is the blessed life? (And how do we get it?)

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Christian Science Bible Study read from The Message, copyright by Eugene Peterson and from 21st Century Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures: A modern version of Mary Baker Eddy's Science and Health, copyright by Cheryl Petersen

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Christian Science Bible Lesson read from The Message, copyright by Eugene Peterson, and from 21st Century Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures: A modern version of Mary Baker Eddy's Science and Health, copyright by Cheryl Petersen https://healingsciencetoday.wordpress.com/https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F5NT6KJ6#christianscience #christiansciencebelief#christianscientist #christiansciencetoday #prayer #spirituality #marybakereddy#scienceandhealth #keytoscriptures #biblestudy #biblereading #bibleinspiration

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Eugene Peterson says, "For Isaiah words are watercolors and melodies and chisels to make truth, and beauty and goodness.  Or as the case may be hammers and swords and scalpels to unmake sin, guilt and rebellion.  He creates visions, delivers revelation, arouses belief.  Isaiah is the supreme poet prophet to come out of the Hebrew people."  The characteristic name for God in Isaiah is "The Holy."  For Isaiah, Holiness is a furnace that transforms the men and women who enter it. Come join us as we take in the "Salvation Symphony" of Judgment (chapters 1-39), Comfort (chapters 40-55) and Hope (chapters 56-66).

Episode Summary: Being busy is a drug for most people. We believe that busyness is a badge of honor, that constant activity is good, and that productivity (whatever that means), makes us worthwhile. People like to talk about being busy all the time, but oftentimes their relationships suffer. So often we sleepwalk through our days, but there is a tremendous gift in practicing awareness in this present moment. In a culture that gives accolades for business and achievement, we run the risk of forgetting how to be present. Scripture reminds us to “Be still and know that I am God” (Psalm 46:10) but how often do we willingly slow down? My guest, Courtney Ellis and I talk about how to be present in the moment and reap the benefits. Quotables from the episode: What would it look like to love my actual neighbors? What would it look like to press into this particular church? What would it look like to make our kids' schools our schools and really put our feet on the ground and help in all the ways that we can? And so this book came out of that desire that my husband and I had and that commitment we made before God to really try to live into the ministry of stability as long as he called us to. That's a big change after moving six times in six years. It is, it is. You learn some bad habits when you move a lot. Friends in the military, friends who have to move a lot and they say, yeah, you pick up some bad habits. So, we had to unlearn a lot of bad habits. You talk about leaning in and being present. So, what are some practical ways that we can choose to be present in the moment? And then what are some of the benefits? There are so many small, beautiful ways we can choose to be present. Often the easiest one is just to keep your phone in your pocket or your purse because it's fascinating. You'll be at the grocery store, and you see people standing in line and you can time it. People will stand in line patiently for about 30 seconds and then the hand goes down and the phone is out. And it's not that they're being impatient, but might as well use the time to do the word or scroll Facebook or whatever it is. And so, part of this, practicing this attentiveness toward God and being present in the moment is simply resisting that urge to do the easiest thing which is to pull out technology and distract ourselves. Sit near a window and just take a few minutes and observe what you see and it's almost like your soul is the shaken up snow globe and as you sit all of that snow starts to settle and you may hear from God, you may hear things in your own heart that you've been kind of stuffing down and as you're present to yourself, present to what you see around you, present to the Lord, beautiful things can happen. When we can make decisions in our lives ahead of time and leave them closed, it opens up our minds to new possibilities. It gives us new energy. And that's the difference between kind of leaving or living poised to leave and living planning to stay. And God may call us to go tomorrow, but today, if that decision is closed, we have all of these possibilities in front of us that we can turn our full attention to without already being fatigued. You refer to limits as a God -given grace. What do you mean by that? I don't like it. I'm going to start with that. I don't either. Talk about that for a minute. Yes. I want to be infinite. I want to keep going. I want to keep running. But limits ultimately are a grace and they're a reminder to us of our creatureliness that we are part of God's creation. We are not God. Even small things like coming to the end of a day and needing to go to sleep is a reminder of the limits God has set in our days, in our world, in our life. Multiple times a day we have to stop and eat. And that's an intentional creation of God. God could have created us to not need food. God could have created us to eat once a year. But these intentional checks and balances in our lives are an opportunity to practice dependence on God, to understand that our finitude is not burden, but it's grace, even if we are not always able to receive it in that way. Why do you call yourself an achievement addict and what does this have to do with learning to take a Sabbath rest? Yes, I would imagine I'm talking to another achievement addict here on the show. It takes one to know one. Yeah, I, especially early on in my life, that was where I would receive a lot of praise and adulation. And so I really grew into this. I am what I do. And if I've done enough in a day, I can feel good about myself, you know, when my husband and I compare notes at the end of the day and he'll say, "How was your day?" I still will most often jump to, "Well, I got a lot done and I feel really good about that." It's like, "Do you? Okay, let's talk about that. And there's nothing wrong with achievement, there's nothing wrong with being a driven person. But where you encounter some difficulty is when that becomes your identity. So, on a day where I'm ill, on a day where, you know, the kids didn't cooperate, on a day where something unexpected got thrown on my plate ministry -wise, does that mean I'm less of a person because I didn't check off my list? No, it doesn't. It means that God is the God of interruptions and God is the God of limitations. There's great grace in realizing that we are, you know, the old cliche, we're human beings, we're not human doings. and God has created us that way out of love and care and grace so we can rest at the end of the day even while leaving things undone. And that is the message of Sabbath is that once-a-week God commands doesn't invite doesn't suggest God commands that we rest from our labors and not because everything is done not because everything is polished and finished. And I love what Eugene Peterson, wonderful Presbyterian author has to say about Sabbath, which is that if you work with your mind, you should Sabbath with your hands. So, there should be worship, but also, you know, often my husband is out in the garden on Sabbath because that allows his mind to rest. But if you work with your hands, you should Sabbath with your mind. Busyness keeps us from stability and stability is what healthy people and a healthy society desperately needs. The United States has traditionally been one of the most mobile countries in the world with the average American moving about eleven times in their lifetimes. By contrast, Europeans move about four times. Busyness and the transitory nature of our lives and jobs means fewer deep connections with others. Fostering community is some of the toughest, most painful work we engage in. Being present means that we deliberately choose stability. In a world marked by transience, envy, and rootlessness, committing to stay put is a radical, unusual act. Transience threatens to dull our awareness of God. While stability may not always be our choice (like with a job relocation), it is something to be sought after. Remembering to pay attention can be the trickiest spiritual practice of all. Being present is about choices: setting aside time to rest (Sabbath) but also setting aside distractions (like technology). Sabbath is not a gift to you because you've achieved enough. It's actually a gift so that you will rest from your achievement and that's hard. In fact, you write remembering to pay attention can be the trickiest spiritual practice of to hack that a little think in many ways, those are the two primary spiritual disciplines, but what I'm learning is the older I get that the fundamental spiritual practice for all of us is learning to pay attention, to pay attention to God, to pay attention to our neighbor, to pay attention to what God is stirring up in our own souls, to pay attention to what God's stirring up in our broader culture. A lot of it comes back to those practices of noticing and being present with people. This is what Jesus did so well. Jesus was present with people who were very different than he was, people who had been wearing t -shirts with slogans that he did not agree with. And he did that by simply being present with people, by sharing meals with them, by having conversations, by noticing, he meets the woman at the well and through the power of the Holy Spirit, he knows things about her that we wouldn't have known, but we can notice, and we can love as Jesus loved. And so in building community, some of the best tools we have are not going on 100 miles an hour so we can pause at the mailbox and say, "Hey, how was your day?" So we can notice the person in the grocery store check-out line. So, it's slowing down and then practicing that same attentiveness, that spiritual practice of noticing with people. A big percentage of our listeners and viewers are dealing with pain, whether it's physical pain, it's emotional pain, relational pain, or even spiritual pain. So how can we learn to find God's presence in the present moment in the midst of our pain? What a good question. I think the first thing I'd say is sometimes you need to escape the pain a little bit and that's okay. Sometimes what you need are six episodes of the Great British Baking Show and God honors that and God blesses that. God doesn't always force us to face down our pain every minute of every day. So, it's kind of two feet of walking, we face it and then we take a breather, we take a rest, we take a nap. But I think the surprising thing, and we read this so often throughout the journey of Scripture, is that in those most painful moments, we find an intimacy with God that we don't find any other time. I would want to leave them with the gentle permission to slow down, to look up and look around, and to see what grace, God has strewn right in your path, right in front of you. It's easy to look for greener pastures. It's easy to lean into the dissatisfaction that our culture showcases all around us, but truly God has strewn our world with such delight. We slow down and start to look up. It's ours for the taking if we will slow down and be present in the moment. Scripture References: Matthew 5:34 We are warned not to “be anxious about tomorrow, for tomorrow will be anxious for itself.” Matthew 24:42-44 “… keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.” Jeremiah 29:7 “Seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the Lord for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper.” Recommended Resources: Present: The Gift of Being All In, Right Where You Are by Courtney Sacred Scars: Resting in God’s Promise That Your Past Is Not Wasted by Dr. Michelle Bengtson The Hem of His Garment: Reaching Out To God When Pain Overwhelms by Dr. Michelle Bengtson, winner AWSA 2024 Golden Scroll Christian Living Book of the Year and the 2024 Christian Literary Awards Reader’s Choice Award in the Christian Living and Non-Fiction categories YouVersion 5-Day Devotional Reaching Out To God When Pain Overwhelms Today is Going to be a Good Day: 90 Promises from God to Start Your Day Off Right by Dr. Michelle Bengtson, AWSA Member of the Year, winner of the AWSA 2023 Inspirational Gift Book of the Year Award, the 2024 Christian Literary Awards Reader’s Choice Award in the Devotional category, the 2023 Christian Literary Awards Reader’s Choice Award in four categories, and the Christian Literary Awards Henri Award for Devotionals YouVersion Devotional, Today is Going to be a Good Day version 1 YouVersion Devotional, Today is Going to be a Good Day version 2 Revive & Thrive Women’s Online Conference Revive & Thrive Summit 2 Trusting God through Cancer Summit 1 Trusting God through Cancer Summit 2 Breaking Anxiety’s Grip: How to Reclaim the Peace God Promises by Dr. Michelle Bengtson, winner of the AWSA 2020 Best Christian Living Book First Place, the first place winner for the Best Christian Living Book, the 2020 Carolina Christian Writer’s Conference Contest winner for nonfiction, and winner of the 2021 Christian Literary Award’s Reader’s Choice Award in all four categories for which it was nominated (Non-Fiction Victorious Living, Christian Living Day By Day, Inspirational Breaking Free and Testimonial Justified by Grace categories.) YouVersion Bible Reading Plan for Breaking Anxiety’s Grip Breaking Anxiety’s Grip Free Study Guide Free PDF Resource: How to Fight Fearful/Anxious Thoughts and Win Hope Prevails: Insights from a Doctor’s Personal Journey Through Depression by Dr. Michelle Bengtson, winner of the Christian Literary Award Henri and Reader’s Choice Award Hope Prevails Bible Study by Dr. Michelle Bengtson, winner of the Christian Literary Award Reader’s Choice Award Free Webinar: Help for When You’re Feeling Blue Social Media Links for Host and Guest: Connect with Courtney Ellis: Website / Facebook / Instagram / X For more hope, stay connected with Dr. Bengtson at: Order Book Sacred Scars / Order Book The Hem of His Garment / Order Book Today is Going to be a Good Day / Order Book Breaking Anxiety’s Grip / Order Book Hope Prevails / Website / Blog / Facebook / Twitter (@DrMBengtson) / LinkedIn / Instagram / Pinterest / YouTube / Podcast on Apple Guest: After six moves in as many years, Courtney Ellis found herself longing for the stability of one place. Her new book Present: The Gift of Being All In, Right Where You Are explores God’s call to be present, cultivating community and contentment right where we are. Courtney is a graduate of Wheaton College and Princeton Seminary. She trained to be an English lit professor before following God’s call to full-time ministry. She and her husband, Daryl, have three children and live in southern California where they pastor. Hosted By: Dr. Michelle Bengtson Audio Technical Support: Bryce Bengtson Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.

In this episode of Thinking Out Loud, Nathan and Cameron dive into a rich theological reflection on spiritual preparedness in a chaotic world—using the metaphor of a flat spare tire to explore what it means to be caught off guard by life's inevitable crises. Drawing from Scripture, cultural trends, and the wisdom of thinkers like Kierkegaard and Eugene Peterson, they challenge modern Christians to consider the cost of distraction, emotional exhaustion, and constant busyness. Are we cultivating the spiritual depth and contemplative practices necessary to face suffering, loss, aging, and the deeper questions of faith? This episode speaks directly to believers looking for thoughtful, biblically grounded conversation about how to live wisely and intentionally in a noisy, demanding culture. If you're a Christian seeking to grow in wisdom, spiritual resilience, and theological depth, this conversation is for you. Subscribe now and join the discussion.DONATE LINK: https://toltogether.com/donate BOOK A SPEAKER: https://toltogether.com/book-a-speakerJOIN TOL CONNECT: https://toltogether.com/tol-connect TOL Connect is an online forum where TOL listeners can continue the conversation begun on the podcast.

My wrapping up of Reversed Thunder by Eugene Peterson, a book I've been reading recently to help my understanding of this cryptic book increase. And it has! I still have a way to go, though.

In this episode, Whitney teaches through Luke 7:36-50 about a nameless woman who responds to Jesus in an awkward but beautiful display of affection. We see a great contrast between the host, Simon the Pharisee, who demonstrates cynicism, doubt, and judgment, and the woman who pours out sacrificially at the feet of Jesus, a woman known in town only as a sinner. This brief episode touches on the ways that we attempt to make ourselves look better than we are, while challenging us to live a version of faith that expresses itself in sincere action. It offers a fresh look at repentance and pushes us to ask how our faith is known beyond the words that we speak. Social media: IG - wlscarboroughShow Notes/Quotes:“Is Whitney even your real name?”“We have a tendency to make ourselves look better than we are.”“Genuine faith reveals itself in sincere action.”“I believe that repetition as we study God's Word is one of the most helpful and important things we can do.”“Eugene Peterson, the author of the Message version of the Bible, writes, ‘the NO we say to the world's lies and the YES we say to God's truth is repentance. It is always and everywhere the first word in the Christian life.'” “I think repentance is very hard for us, because we have a tendency to make ourselves look better than we are.”“My faith and your faith will look different, but our faith needs to visibly look like something. And I believe that it probably ought to look more like a messy, awkward display of abundant gratitude to our Savior and less like a crossed arm, judgmental view of our neighbor.”“Dane Ortlund is the author of a book called Gentle and Lowly, and he writes, ‘It's the most counterintuitive aspect of Christianity, that we are declared right with God not once we begin to get our act together but once we collapse into honest acknowledgement that we never will.'” Verses:Luke 7:36-50 1 Samuel 16:7James 2:262 Chronicles 7:14

What do the Psalms, U2, and honest prayer have in common? In this powerful closing message to our Selah series, Pastor Tom reflects on Psalm 40 and the deeper meaning behind the songs we sing. Drawing from the words of Eugene Peterson and Bono, this message explores how the Psalms hold the tensions of life—joy and sorrow, victory and waiting—with raw honesty and spiritual depth.Through the lens of music, we're reminded that faith isn't a formula to solve, but a song to keep singing—especially when life doesn't go as planned. Whether you're on a high or in the pit, this message invites you to rediscover worship as an authentic expression of where you are and who God is.

Christian Science Bible Lesson read from The Message, copyright by Eugene Peterson and from 21st Century Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures: A modern version of Mary Baker Eddy's Science and Health, copyright by Cheryl Petersenhttps://healingsciencetoday.wordpress.com/https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F6D1CCTHhttps://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F5NT6KJ6

In possibly my last offering before September, I try to wrap up m 7 week reading of Reversed Thunder by Eugene Peterson. That being said, I may try and do a proper overview episode from my home in August.

Dr. Ryan and Dr. Matt have a conversation with Dave Ripper about his new book Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard .Bio:Dave Ripper is the lead pastor of Crossway Christian Church, a multi-congregational church in southern New Hampshire focused on spiritual formation. He earned a Doctor of Ministry in spiritual direction from Fuller Theological Seminary and the Martin Institute for Christianity and Culture and Dallas Willard Research Center at Westmont College. He's the author of “Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus: Reading the Bible like Dallas Willard and coauthor of The Fellowship of the Suffering.”About the Book:Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus offers a unique pathway to deeper spiritual engagement, using Dallas Willard's revolutionary approach to reading the Bible. More than a study tool, Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus invites you to transform your encounters with Scripture from mere information gathering to profound spiritual experiences. Using primary source material and insights from Willard, Dave Ripper takes you on an immersive exploration of Scripture that mirrors the intellect of a philosopher and the heart of a mystic.You'll find experiential exercises designed to prompt reflection and foster enriching group conversations, helping you not just to read, but to truly know the God of the Bible. Perfect for pastors, ministry leaders, and spiritual seekers shaped by voices like Eugene Peterson and Richard Foster, Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus offers a call to experience God's presence in new and vibrant ways.Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus is a valuable resource for anyone seeking to deepen their understanding and connection with Scripture as a disciple of Jesus. It offers practical tools, insights, and exercises that can be applied both individually and in group settings. By incorporating the teachings of Dallas Willard, Experiencing Scripture as a Disciple of Jesus provides a unique perspective on reading the Bible that goes beyond simple information gathering.Buy the book: https://a.co/d/4IN81Nz

In this episode, I talk about the 9th chapter of Reversed Thunder by Eugene Peterson, The Last Word On Politics.

I have a love/hate relationship with prayer. On the one hand, I find it hard to do consistently. On the other, I question its effectiveness. In this episode, I explore prayer in light of Eugene Peterson's book, Reversed Thunder, and have changed my opinions on prayer somewhat.

In this third episode about "Reversed Thunder", Eugene Peterson's work on Revelation, we meet the four famous horses: War, Famine, Pestilence, and the White Horse of Christ, Fathful, True and Righteous. These horses are not equal, nor are they on the same side. Three are evil, one is good. I'll leave it to you to figure out which is which.

In this episode of Tell Me More, hosts Katy Reed Hodges and Luke Stehr speak with guest Curt Grice about Sunday's sermon by Dennis R. Wiles at First Baptist Arlington. The discussion centers on the sermon "Flourishing Formation: Seek God's Kingdom!" based on Matthew 6:25-34.The conversation examines Pastor Wiles' use of metamorphosis as a conceptual framework for spiritual formation. The hosts and guest analyze the sermon's main points regarding transformation in Christian life, addressing the questions of identity and purpose in spiritual development.Topics covered include the prohibition against worry, the practice of seeking God's kingdom as a priority, and the promise of divine provision. The discussion references theological perspectives from Dallas Willard, Eugene Peterson, and John Mark Comer on spiritual formation and discipleship.The episode provides factual information about the contrast between cultural approaches to life and the alternative path of following Jesus. Listeners will hear an analysis of what it means to be "formed, conformed, and transformed" as disciples according to the sermon text.

Description: Today, we're revisiting a pivotal conversation that changed the course of Jen's life and career. In 2016, during what was expected to be a routine interview with journalist Jonathan Merritt, Jen found herself speaking publicly for the first time about her views on abortion, politics, and LGBTQ+ issues—beliefs she had been wrestling with privately for over a year. While she was confident in her answers, she was unprepared for the backlash that followed. In this encore episode, Jen and Jonathan reflect on that moment and its ripple effects. Jonathan shares his own parallel journey—growing up as the son of a megachurch pastor, internalizing the “love the sinner, hate the sin” message, and later confronting his own identity as a gay man. His story, like Jen's, became public in ways he never expected, leading him on a path of deeper truth, faith, and purpose. Thought-provoking Quotes: “You told the truth. You were ready for this interview. You had actually been doing the work for a decade to be ready to answer those questions honestly. But, your PR wasn't ready.” – Amy Hardin “The best way to live is true. No matter what you think it will cost or what it does cost you, the cost is worth the reward.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Religion News Service - https://religionnews.com/about-rns/ Jen Hatmaker: Trump, Black Lives Matter, gay marriage and more by Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/jen-hatmaker-trump-black-lives-matter-gay-marriage Growing Up Evangelical and Gay with Jonathan Merritt - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-63/growing-up-evangelical-and-gay-with-jonathan-merritt/ My Saddest Good Friday in Memory: When Treasured Things are Dead - https://jenhatmaker.com/my-saddest-good-friday-in-memory-when-treasured-things-are-dead/ Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-24/love-is-the-game-changer-of-our-faith-bishop-michael-curry/ How to Create a Politics of Love: Lisa Sharon Harper - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcast/series-24/how-to-create-a-politics-of-love-lisa-sharon-harper/ Christian Rock Star Comes Out as Gay in Letter to the World - Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/christian-rock-star-admits-hes-gay-writes-letter-to-fans?rq=trey%20pearson Eugene Peterson on Changing His Mind About Same-Sex Issues and Marriage – Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/eugene-peterson-changing-mind-sex-issues-marriage?rq=eugene Leading Evangelical Ethicist is now Pro-LGBT (David Gushee) – Jonathan Merritt - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/article/leading-evangelical-ethicist-now-pro-lgbt?rq=david A Faith of Our Own: Following Jesus Beyond the Culture Wars – Jonathan Merritt -  Dr. Michael Lindsay,  Sociologist & Author - https://www.taylor.edu/about/president-profile James Martin, Jesuit Priest - https://www.instagram.com/jamesmartinsj/ Guest's Links: Website - https://www.jonathanmerritt.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jonathan_merritt Twitter - https://x.com/JonathanMerritt Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/JonathanMerrittWriter Substack - https://jonathanmerritt.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen's Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen's Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen's Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen's Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen's YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

I begin by doing a poor job reporting what I've read this week of Reversed Thunder by Eugene Peterson and then move on to some christological thoughts on the Love of Jesus which leads to transformation and salvation.

Pentecost Sunday 2025 6-8-25 "The work of the Spirit is to impart life, to implant hope, to give liberty, to testify of Christ, to guide us to all truth, to teach us all things, to comfort the believer, and to convict the world of sin.” D.L. Moody Acts 1:4-8 4 On one occasion, while he was eating with them, he gave them this command: “Do not leave Jerusalem, but wait for the gift my Father promised, which you have heard me speak about. 5 For John baptized withwater, but in a few days you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.” 6 Then they gathered around him and asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?” 7 He said to them: “It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit comes on you; and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth.” When the day of Pentecost came, they were all together in one place. Acts 2:1-4 2 Suddenly a sound like the blowing of a violent wind came from heaven and filled the whole house where they were sitting.3 They saw what seemed to be tongues of fire that separated and came to rest on each of them. 4 All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them. Creation Exodus Jesus Pentecost When the Holy Spirit Comes: 1. You Will Receive Power "The Christian life is not meant to be lived dryly or wearily, but to be a life of overflowing water and rushing wind, filled with the presence of God." - Jon Tyson & Suzy Silk "God's Spirit continues to hover over the chaos of the world's evil and our sin and shapes a new creation and new creatures. Pentecost means that God is not a spectator, in turn amused and alarmed at world history; rather, he is a participant. Pentecost means that the invisible is more important the the visible, at any single moment and at any single event we choose to examine. Pentecost means that everything, especially everything that looks to us like wreckage, is material God is using to make a praising life." - Eugene Peterson When the Holy Spirit Comes: 1. You Will Receive Power 2. You Will Be My Witnesses "Many Jews longed for a new event in which the divine glory would fill Israels's Temple once more... The wind and fire of Pentecost answers to this expectation, indicating that now the Temple is a community, not a building. The church, as the spirit filled Temple of God, goes into the world with the fresh wind and fire, living out its vocation to be a light to the nations, burning ever more brightly. " - NT Wright "If I were to define what for me makes up the core Pentecostal identity it is the lived conviction that everything, absolutely everything, in the scriptures is livable. Not just true, but livable. Not just an idea or a cause, but livable in real life. Everything that is revealed in Jesus and the scriptures, the gospel, is there to be lived by ordinary Christians in ordinary times." - Eugene Peterson

Teacher: Dave Brown Saul has slain his thousands, and David his tens of thousands.—1 Samuel 18:7; 21:11 Saul was very angry; “they have credited David with tens of thousand,” he though, ‘but me with only thousands. What more can he get but the kingdom?” And from that time on Saul kept a close eye on David.— 1 Samuel 18:8-9 David went to Nob, to Ahimelek the priest. Ahimelek trembled when he met him, and asked, “Why are you alone? Why is no one with you?” David answered Ahimelek the priest, “The king sent me on a mission and said to me, ‘No one is to know anything about the mission I am sending you on.' As for my men, I have told them to meet me at a certain place.”— 1 Samuel 21:1-2 The king ordered Doeg, “You turn and strike down the priests.” So Does the Edomite turned and killed eighty-five men who wore the linen ephod. He also put to the sword Nob, the town of the priests, with its men and women, its children and infants, and its cattle, donkeys and sheep.— 1 Samuel 22:18-19 But one son of Ahimelek…named Abiathar, escaped and fled to join David. He told David that Saul had killed the priests of the Lord, Then David said to Abiathar, “That day, when Doeg the Edomite was there, I knew he would be sure to tell Saul. I am responsible for the death of your whole family.— 1 Samuel 22:20-22 If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.— John 15:18-20 The story of David isn't set before us as a moral model to copy. David isn't a person whose actions we're inspired to imitate. In the company of David we don't feel inadequate because we know we could never do it that well. Just the opposite; in the company of David we find someone who does it as badly as, or worse than, we do, but who in the process doesn't quit, doesn't withdraw from God.— Eugene Peterson God's will for our lives can be divided into two parts: 1 - General will — Loving God and loving others 2 - Specific will — “The place were your deep gladness and the world's deep hunger meet.” David isn't an ideal life bit an actual life. We imaginatively enter the company of David not to improve our morals but to deepen our sense of human reality: this is what happens in the grand enterprise of being human. Reentering through my believing imagination the world of David, I'm more myself—free to be myself and able find God in the middle of what's going on right now.— Eugene Peterson

Revelation 14 breaks in like a cosmic alarm, interrupting the chaos of empire with heaven's final word. In this message, Pastor Darren Rouanzoin unpacks how God's mercy confronts idolatry, political deception, and religious compromise with truth and justice.We'll explore:• What the mark of the beast really means and how it's shaping people today• Why Revelation 14 isn't about fear, but about urgent mercy• What the three angels reveal about allegiance, worship, and judgment• The two end-time harvests and how your daily life is forming your eternal futureWith wisdom from Michael Gorman, Eugene Peterson, Richard Bauckham, Darrell Johnson, and G.K. Beale, this teaching invites us to ask:Are you becoming like the Lamb or like the beast?