POPULARITY
7 episodes with Montreat College
10 episodes with Montreat College
5 episodes with Montreat College
4 episodes with Montreat College
4 episodes with Montreat College
3 episodes with Montreat College
4 episodes with Montreat College
3 episodes with Montreat College
2 episodes with Montreat College
Ethereal Encounters Unveiled welcomes William R. Forstchen, Ph.D Date: March 7th, 2025 Topic: EMP Attacks: What Happens When the Grid Goes Dark? BIO William R. Forstchen is a New York Times bestselling author and a Professor of History at Montreat College in Montreat, North Carolina. He holds a doctoral degree from Purdue University with a specialization in military history and technology. He is the author of more than 50 books. His groundbreaking novel, One Second After, published in 2009, is credited by many with being integral to the start of the “prepper movement” by raising national awareness of the potential threat of an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) strike. He, along with other experts on terrorism and the military situation in the Middle East, also firmly believes that it is time America took serious note of the threats leveled by ISIS: that we are their next target and that it is not a question of if. It is now a question of when. A noted expert historian and public speaker, he has been interviewed on FOX News, C-SPAN and many others on topics ranging from history to technology and cultural issues, space technology development, and security threats. Links: https://www.onesecondafter.com/ https://dayofwrathbook.com/
You can’t Hustle your way to Holiness … GUEST Alexander Sosler … assoc professor of Bible and ministry at Montreat College and an assisting priest at Redeemer Anglican Church, Asheville, NC … author of “A Short Guide to Spiritual Formation: Finding Life in Truth, Goodness, Beauty, & Community,” the 2024 winner of Christianity Today’s Christian Living Book of the Year. Race, Science & Christianity … GUEST Dr Sy Garte ... biochemist who has taught at NY Univ, the Univ of Pgh, and Rutgers Univ ... He's the author of "The Works of His Hands: A Scientist's Journey from Atheism to Faith," “Science & Faith in Harmony: Contemplations on a Distilled Doxology,” and the upcoming “Beyond Evolution”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
You can’t Hustle your way to Holiness … GUEST Alexander Sosler … assoc professor of Bible and ministry at Montreat College and an assisting priest at Redeemer Anglican Church, Asheville, NC … author of “A Short Guide to Spiritual Formation: Finding Life in Truth, Goodness, Beauty, & Community,” the 2024 winner of Christianity Today’s Christian Living Book of the Year. Race, Science & Christianity … GUEST Dr Sy Garte ... biochemist who has taught at NY Univ, the Univ of Pgh, and Rutgers Univ ... He's the author of "The Works of His Hands: A Scientist's Journey from Atheism to Faith," “Science & Faith in Harmony: Contemplations on a Distilled Doxology,” and the upcoming “Beyond Evolution”See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Andrew Walworth, Tom Bevan, and Carl Cannon discuss the strategy behind President Trump's tariff policy. They also talk about the results of Secretary of State Marco Rubio's trip to Panama and Elon Musk's mission to defund the Agency For International Development (AID). Plus, they chat about the Democratic National Committee electing new leadership. Then finally, Tom speaks with William R. Forstchen, a New York Times bestselling author and a Professor of History at Montreat College about the threat of electromagnetic pulse weaponry.
About the Lecture: Pig Butchering, a slang Chinese term for the process of “fattening the pig before the slaughter”, has become synonymous with crypto investment scams. Investment scams have become the most costly cyber-enabled crime reported to the FBI, with reported losses exceeding $4.5B. Across the globe, some studies estimate losses over $63B. In this discussion, we will differentiate between investment scams and Pig Butchering scams, and also learn about the implications to national security and global security from Pig Butchering and its ties to organized crime and nation state threats. About the Speaker: Robin J. Pugh is the President of DarkTower, a bespoke threat intelligence firm that leverages University partnerships and research to provide managed threat intelligence services to industry leaders in banking, insurance, law enforcement, and ecommerce. DarkTower focuses on disrupting internet-enabled crime and training the next generation of cybercrime fighters. In 2023, Robin brought together a team of cybercrime fighters and launched Intelligence for Good, a non-profit organization whose mission is to address the explosion of internet-enabled crimes against individuals including crypto investment scams, romance scams, sextortion and other crimes with “no natural predator.” Robin received her degree in Business Administration from Montreat College and resides in the Charlotte, North Carolina, area with her husband and three children.
In this special episode of How to Study the Bible, Nicole connects with friend of the show Rachel Toone, Dean of Spiritual Formation at Montreat College, who shares her experiences during Hurricane Helene, which hit her area in Western North Carolina. Rachel describes the devastation, including 25-30 inches of rain, downed power lines, and flooded rivers that washed out roads and homes. She highlights the community's resilience, with local churches providing essential aid. Rachel emphasizes the long-term needs, including continued support for vulnerable communities and infrastructure rebuilding. She requests prayers and assistance for the coming months, stressing the importance of not forgetting the affected area as the news cycle moves on. How You Can Help Hurricane Recovery Efforts: Montreat College Benevolence Fund:https://montreatcollege.givingfuel.com/disaster-recovery-from-tropical-storm-helene Volunteer or Give to Disaster Relief through Samaritan's Purse Discover more Christian podcasts at lifeaudio.com and inquire about advertising opportunities at lifeaudio.com/contact-us.
President of Montreat College, Paul Maurer joins the show to describe the devastation of the areas around the school and how the college is helping the community and itself get back on its feet.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This episode is presented by Simply NC Goods – The best-selling author and Montreat College professor, Dr. Bill Forstchen, joins me from Black Mountain, NC to discuss the conditions in the small Western North Carolina town. The aftermath he is living through is reminiscent of his apocalyptic novel One Second After. WBT's relief & recovery links: How to Help: Donate to Support Recovery Efforts in Western North Carolina After Tropical Storm Helene A Western NC disaster relief agency: Hearts With Hands Help Pete's team in the Walk to End Alzheimer's by going here. Subscribe to the podcast at: https://ThePeteKalinerShow.com/ All the links to Pete's Prep are free: https://patreon.com/petekalinershow Advertising inquiries: Pete@ThePeteKalinerShow.comGet exclusive content here!: https://thepetekalinershow.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
As Associate Dean & Chair of Business at Montreat College's School of Adult and Graduate Studies, Dr. Paul Gratton is in a perfect position to help coaches think about how to develop their business, as well as give their clients a template for designing the client's business. Paul takes us through all nine areas of the model: Key activities Key resources Key partners Value Propositions Customer segments Channels Customer relationships Cost Structure Revenue Streams Here is a link to a Business Model Canvas template. You can hear more from Paul on our previously released podcasts: 278 Thirteen Competencies Required for Starting Your Own Practice with Paul Gratton - Part 2 277 Thirteen Competencies Required for Starting Your Own Practice with Paul Gratton - Part 1 243 Complex Systems with Paul Gratton FOLLOW US: LinkedIn:http://www.linkedin.com/company/coach-approach-ministries Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/coach.approach.ministries Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@coachapproachministries7538 Website: www.coachapproachministries.org
Christian colleges and universities are in a tough spot. Spiraling costs and shrinking demographics, plus technological and other cultural concerns, are putting unprecedented pressure on them. We've reported on the closures of many Christian colleges here at MinistryWatch, and our reporting has barely touched the magnitude of the problem. According to Higher Ed Dive, at least 116 colleges have closed since 2016. Between 2010 and 2020, 29 Christian colleges closed or merged with other schools. On today's extra episode, Warren Smith discusses what is happening at Cornerstone University, Montreat College, and LeTourneau University – and what we can learn from these institutions. The producer for today's program is Jeff McIntosh. Until next time, may God bless you.
IN THIS REPEAT: A talk I gave in early April 2016 about a running theme in The Screwtape Letters. I just gave the following talk on Saturday, April 2, 2016 at the Inklings Fellowship Weekend Retreat that was held in Montreat, NC at Montreat College. It was also the public debut of my first book C.S. Lewis Goes to Hell: A Companion and Study Guide to The Screwtape Letters. While I do give a summary of the unique aspects of my book, the main focus of the talk is about the devils' secret weapon that is mentioned in nearly all of the letters. My book just list them, but this presentation provides more details and gives a practical application to one's life. Visit my website to contact me about giving this talk or a three or four part presentation on all of the places this weapon is mentioned or alluded to. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Paperback of C.S. Lewis Goes to Hell Kindle of C.S. Lewis Goes to Hell Visit Shelley and Son Books Website (podcast sponsor) Other Useful Links: Knowing and Understanding C.S. Lewis YouTube CHANNEL Listen to All About Jack on iTunes Purchase C.S. Lewis Goes to Hell Visit ScrewtapeCompanion.com Visit EssentialCSLewis.com Purchase The Misquotable C.S. Lewis
This episode is presented by Carolina Readiness Supply – Dr. William Forstchen is a historian, NY Times best-selling author, and a professor of history at Montreat College. He joined the program for a tribute to the heroes who stormed the beaches of Normandy 80 years ago on this date. Subscribe to the podcast at: https://ThePeteKalinerShow.com/ All the links to Pete's Prep are free: https://patreon.com/petekalinershow Get exclusive content here!: https://thepetekalinershow.com/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Rachel Toone, the Dean of Spiritual Formation at Montreat College and an Ordained Teaching Elder in the EPC preaches from the Lectionary while Lead Pastor Anthony Rodriguez is away on a mission trip in India.
Hello everyone and welcome to Episode Ninety Six! And while we're at it, I hope you all remain safe and healthy out there. It's the last Sunday in April which means that this is the last episode in Season Four – we start Season Five on the first of May and I should have a show out around the middle of May, after I return from a trip to Suriname. And as always, I am grateful to all the show's patrons who help to keep the show moving forward. And if you're out there listening and you would like to kick in a few bucks, it's easy to do, you simply go to the So Much Pingle Patreon page. You can support the show for as little as three bucks a month – less than a fancy cup of coffee! You can also support the show via one-time contributions via PayPal or Venmo (please contact me via email to somuchpingle@gmail.com). HERPETOLOGY CAMP FOR HIGH SCHOOLERS! Don't forget, Professor Josh Holbrook will be hosting another herpetology camp this year at Montreat College in North Carolina, The first week will be held June 23-28, 2024, and an extension will be held June 16-21, 2024 (the week before). For more information, see the Herpetology Camp link at www.montreat.edu/compass This episode is the last set of origin stories that I recorded on my second Peru trip in February of this year. Starting us off is a conversation with Dane Conley, followed by a tag-team interview with Lucas Dunn and Brady McGowan. Thanks guys! It was good to talk with you all! Thanks for listening everyone! And as always, please keep the comments and suggestions coming, and please take time to rate the show on your podcast platform! The show email is somuchpingle@gmail.com, and there's also a So Much Pingle group on Facebook, for discussion, comments, feedback, suggestions, herp confessions, tips for herping better, etc. -Mike
Hello everyone! In January and February we will be replaying a few of our favorite episodes from 2023 as we prepare to launch season 7 in March! We hope you enjoy! — — — — Happy Wednesday! This week, we are releasing an episode with Rachel and today's guest— Alexis Zanias. Lexi shares about her faith journey, her love for educating students, and her love of questions and research. She talks about embracing the unknown, the importance of truth, and understanding definitions. Lexi shares five things that defined Christians in ancient Rome, and Rachel and her chat about the Bible and its authority. They also discuss deciphering what may be the voice of God and what may just be our own voice. We hope you enjoy! About Alexis Alexis Zanias grew up near Allentown PA. She attended Grove City College, where she received a degree in Biology/Secondary Education. Lexi has her Masters in Environmental Science Education from Montreat College in NC. For the past 14 years, she has been a secondary high school science and Bible/apologetics teacher in Asheville NC. Before that she taught in Fort Lauderdale, FL and worked at Black Forest Academy, a boarding school for missionary kids in Germany. When she has a break from teaching during the school year, Lexi loves to fill up her summers. She worked with Summit Ministries for 9 summers at Student Conferences in TN, CA, PA and GA. Lexi currently works in the summers for MAVEN as a field guide on their Immersive Experiences. She loves spending time with Jesus, good discussions, Ultimate Frisbee, Lady Grey Tea, deep laughter and digging into good books. - - - - - We would love to thank our Patrons for all their amazing support! To learn more about supporting Finding Something REAL via Patreon, click here! If you are interested in supporting the Finding Something REAL fundraising campaign, you can head to the webpage and click on the orange donate button. To learn more about Faithful Counseling and if it is a good fit for you, you can click here! If you would like to receive Janell's 7 Deep Faith Questions resource click here! FSR October 2023 - Rachel's Intro FSR October 2023 - with Paul Copan FSR October 2023- with Douglas Groothuis Maventruth.org Rosaria Butterfield Jesus Revolution Movie Midnight Mass - Netflix miniseries Romans 5:8 ”…But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 10:9 ”…If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Ephesians 2:10 ”For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”
Montreat College Steve talks to Paul Mauer, President of Montreat College, about the college and how we should try to promote homeschooling. Our goal is to apply Biblical Truth to the big issues of the day and to spread the Good News of the Gospel to as many people as possible through the airwaves as well as digitally. This mission, like others, requires funding. So, if you feel led to help support this effort, you can make a tax-deductible donation online HERE. Thank You!
Join us in this insightful episode of the XLR8 Performance Lab Podcast as we sit down with Jackson Mace-Maynard, a talented athlete whose journey from high school star to college athlete is filled with twists and turns. Jackson's story is one of resilience, tough decisions, and unwavering determination.As a high school junior, Jackson's breakout race left a lasting impression, attracting the attention of colleges across the country. He ultimately chose the Air Force Academy, setting his sights on a promising collegiate career. However, as life often does, it threw unexpected challenges his way.Jackson faced injuries during Basic Cadet Training, forcing him to reevaluate his path and take a break from running. Balancing 18 credit hours, rehab, and military training wasn't easy, and he reached a point where he needed to step back from the sport he loved.In this episode, Jackson shares the mental and emotional challenges he encountered during his lowest moments and how he made the difficult decision to step away from running. He describes the shift in his perception of running, from a source of self-improvement to an idol in his life, shedding light on the complex relationship athletes can have with their sport.Now at Montreat College, Jackson contemplates putting his running shoes back on, and he discusses the support he's received from his coach and the Montreat College community. His story is a powerful reminder that life's journey is filled with unexpected twists, and it's how we adapt and grow through these challenges that truly defines us.Whether you're an athlete facing tough decisions or someone seeking inspiration in the face of adversity, Jackson's story offers valuable insights and lessons. Tune in to this episode for an engaging conversation about resilience, transformation, and the enduring spirit of an athlete.
Dan and Stephanie set this podcast up with their podcast on Jan 2nd and Jan 16th of 2023. You will want to review this podcast before you hear today's podcast on escaping enemy mode. We took questions from our listeners and those in our coaching courses based on Wilder's work.Some questions that came in:How is attachment and hesed related?How is attachment related to enemy mode?What is a fear bond, and if you have PTSD or have been damaged by a relationship, can you achieve a love bond?What parts of the brain have neuroplasticity? What can be learned for those on the spectrum?More questions answered!NDCCs are easily dragged into enemy mode- simple enemy mode, stupid enemy mode, and intellectual enemy mode. Our brains can unite or divide us. Join us for this discussion with Dr. Jim Wilder.You will want to go back and hear our podcast "Are you in your right mind?" which sets the stage for this conversation.Today we will talk about how those on the autism spectrum, due to neurological wiring, are more easily dragged into enemy mode. But we will also talk about JOY and how to escape enemy mode to re-friend and rebuild attachment/joy.About Dr. Wilder:Dr. Jim Wilder has been training leaders and counselors for over 30 years on five continents. Jim grew up in South America and is bilingual (English/Spanish). He is the author of nineteen books with a strong focus on maturity and relational skills. Dr. Wilder has served as a guest lecturer at Fuller Seminary, Biola, Talbot Seminary, Point Loma University, Montreat College, Tyndale Seminary, and elsewhere.Dr. Jim Wilder has extensive clinical counseling experience and is the chief neurotheologian of Life Model Works, a nonprofit working at the intersection of theology and brain science. Life Model Works builds on the fifty-year legacy of Shepherd's House, which began in the 1970s as a ministry to street kids in Van Nuys, California.In those early days, Jim worked with the team of volunteer counselors and Fuller Seminary faculty to build a counseling center to help broken people recover from negative habits, addictions, abuse, and trauma. By the 1990s, Jim was Assistant Director and later Executive Director of Shepherd's House, helping hundreds of pastors and churches with their toughest counseling cases.Jim was intimately involved in 1987 when Shepherd's House conducted a careful review of why some people with the same level of trauma and treatment recovered, but others did not. The results of this case-by-case study became The Life Model, a new recovery model. The Life Model study findings were published in Living from the Heart Jesus Gave You.
Happy Wednesday! This week, we are releasing an episode with Rachel and today's guest— Alexis Zanias. Alexis shares about her faith journey, her love for educating students, and her love of questions and research. She talks about embracing the unknown, the importance of truth, and the importance of definitions. They chat about the five things that defined Christians in ancient Rome, the importance of biblical authority, and common criticisms against Biblical authority. They also chat about deciphering what may be the voice of God wand what may be our own voice. We hope you enjoy! About Alexis Alexis Zanias grew up near Allentown PA. She attended Grove City College, where she received a degree in Biology/Secondary Education. Lexi has her Masters in Environmental Science Education from Montreat College in NC. For the past 14 years, she has been a secondary high school science and Bible/apologetics teacher in Asheville NC. Before that she taught in Fort Lauderdale, FL and worked at Black Forest Academy, a boarding school for missionary kids in Germany. When she has a break from teaching during the school year, Lexi loves to fill up her summers. She worked with Summit Ministries for 9 summers at Student Conferences in TN, CA, PA and GA. Lexi currently works in the summers for MAVEN as a field guide on their Immersive Experiences. She loves spending time with Jesus, good discussions, Ultimate Frisbee, Lady Grey Tea, deep laughter and digging into good books. ----- We would love to thank our Patrons for all their amazing support! To learn more about supporting Finding Something REAL via Patreon, click here! If you are interested in supporting the Finding Something REAL fundraising campaign, you can head to the webpage and click on the orange donate button. To learn more about Faithful Counseling and if it is a good fit for you, you can click here! If you would like to receive Janell's 7 Deep Faith Questions resource click here! FSR October 2023 - Rachel's Intro FSR October 2023 - with Paul Copan Maventruth.org Rosaria Butterfield Jesus Revolution Movie Midnight Mass - Netflix miniseries Romans 5:8 ”…But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.” Romans 10:9 ”…If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.” Ephesians 2:10 ”For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.”
Montreat College? Steve talks to people at the Christian Ethics Conference about Montreat College. Are you a right fit for Montreat? Our goal is to apply Biblical Truth to the big issues of the day and to spread the Good News of the Gospel to as many people as possible through the airwaves as well as digitally. This mission, like others, requires funding. So, if you feel led to help support this effort, you can make a tax-deductible donation online HERE. Thank You!
[00:00:00] Tommy Thomas: A strong board of directors is essential to the success of any non-profit organization. The board of directors plays a critical role in providing guidance, oversight, and support for the organization's mission and operations. There is no cookie-cutter or one-size-fits-all when it comes to Nonprofit Board Governance and Board Service. However, there is a lot we can learn from people who are active on the Boards of high impact and highly effective nonprofit organizations. Over the past 104 issues, we have devoted a lot of time to this topic. From time to time, we will highlight excerpts from some of these conversations. Today is the 3rd time we are compiling these excerpts. I will have links to the previous two episodes in the Episode Notes. Christin McClave has over 20 years of corporate leadership, beginning her career with Johnson & Johnson and serving in senior leadership in her family's large automotive aftermarket business – Cardone Industries. Christin has served on and continues to serve on several nonprofit and corporate Boards. I've been in this business a long time and I've worked with probably 300 or 400 boards, over the last 30 years. And if I look at them, I would say a lot of the time they're males. They might be closer to my age than your age. And now things are changing. So, what are you seeing, or maybe what are you doing to lower the mean age on a board and to maybe bring more gender and ethnic diversity? [00:01:43] Christin McClave: So, I think we see a lot of changes in the general demographics, right? As our society and culture are changing. The positive thing is there's so much more diversity coming up through the leadership ranks. And I think the traditional way that we've, I'll say we, because I've done it myself as well, when we've needed a new board member on a board, I instantly think about who have I worked with before? Who's like me, who thinks like me, who would be easy to plug and play into this board that I'm on? And so that's been our traditional way of pipelining onto boards. Let's find people who we know and who we know could be very quickly successful and contribute value to this board. I think what we've learned over the last couple years is that doesn't necessarily bring diversity to these boards that we are trying to diversify. And we've seen the pressure coming from the public sector the SEC, not quite regulations, but suggestions that we need a certain percentage of diversity on the public boards. And there's a lot of pressure in the market for that. And then that has trickled down its way to nonprofits and to the private sector. So, everyone is looking to diversify their boards at this point. And I think, a key piece of the job requirements that we have in the past always assumed on larger boards, I'll say. And most boards in general, everybody's wanted, okay you need to have a CEO or CFO or a C level executive. But preferably a CEO or CFO who's been in the chair before. And I've had people say that to me as well, that's what they're looking for. And I think we know just from sheer data that a lot of women and diverse candidates in general haven't had those opportunities. We are definitely developing that pipeline now and being very much more intentional. But I think like through the past few years and now looking at the talent market being as hot as it is and the demand for diverse talent we have, we are at the place we need to take a look at those very narrow criteria that we've said, oh, you have to be a C-level executive to be on a board and to be able to contribute value. And I think, now I've seen a lot more being written, a lot more being talked about, diversity coming onto boards where I'm reading someone's background and I'm like, wow, that is so cool. Maybe 10 years ago that person wouldn't have been chosen for that very significant board seat. So, I think we've opened up our criteria and have opened up our thought process and how we see people's experiences. We're looking at people's resumes really differently these days. From an HR perspective in internal, when we're screening candidates we took the requirement of having a college degree off of our requirements, probably, about 10 years ago, which was a little bit ahead of our time, but it just opened up our talent pool and we realized there are a lot of people out there that may not have a bachelor's degree but are way more experienced with their life and work experience that we were not being able to tap into because we had that very strict requirement. So, I think we're seeing that across the board at all levels, including at the board level. +++++++++++++++++++++++ [00:05:34] Tommy Thomas: Alvin Sanders, President & CEO of World Impact, a nonprofit that focuses on redemptive poverty and cultural proficiency in the urban community. Alvin and his Board are huge proponents of the Policy Governance Model - an integrated board leadership paradigm created by Dr. John Carver. I'm asking people these days about bringing younger people onto boards. And philosophically, do you have a position on that? And then I'll ask a follow up. [00:06:10] Alvin Sanders: Yes, we try to hold it at nine, because we think a smaller board is better for getting things done. And I think in terms of thirds, a third of our board, we want gender diversity, a third of our board, we want age diversity, a third of our board, we want racial diversity. And then we want half and half, what I would say, marketplace people. These are business folk, and then the other half ministry people. Because if you have all marketplace people, the ministry gets lost. It's been my experience. And if you have all ministry people, the business of running the organization gets lost and it loses knowledge and expertise. So that's my philosophy of how you have you bring a board together. But you definitely need people, especially since I just read the other day that millennials now are the most dominant generation numbers wise. It's no longer Baby Boomers. It's never been my generation, Gen X. We're the forgotten generation, I think. Nobody gives a rip about Gen X, but Millennials now are it and you're just being silly if you don't have Millennials on your board. ++++++++++++++++++ [00:07:23] Tommy Thomas: Caryn Ryan, Managing Director at MissionWell, an organization that provides financial and strategic counsel to nonprofit organizations. Caryn is the former CFO for BP/Amoco and World Vision International. She currently serves on corporate and nonprofit Boards. I want to ask you one question then I'll close. So, my next to the last question has to do with succession planning and the board. At what point should that begin to occur? And how does the board address that without the CEO thinking “I'm a short-timer”? [00:08:04] Caryn Ryan: Okay. Yeah, that's great. I'm dealing with that right now at one of the boards that I sit on. And I've just dealt with that last year as well. And it works both ways if it works all, all different ways. So let me just talk about one where the CEO does get the feeling. If you have this conversation that they're a short timer. I want to just say first of all, that can sometimes go back to the trust issue again, right? When there's a lack of trust between the board and the CEO then, and you bring up the succession of the question of succession planning, the first thing that goes of course into the CEO's mind is, oh, I'm getting fired. I'm a short termer here. So that has to again, be addressed, the trust issue, before you can have productive conversations around succession planning. But even longer term issues are going to take some time to get resolved. There's something you can always do on the succession plan that's very short term and that every single board must have in place. And that is you need a succession plan in case of an emergency. If your CEO becomes ill is hit by a bus, or whatever, you need an emergency succession plan that is an interim structure or very well thought through way that you'll manage in the absence of the CEO. And usually, it's not going to bring out the same negative feeling for the CEO. On the part of the CEO because they understand that, oh yeah, if I'm not there, we need to have some interim structure. And so, they'll begin helping the Board and thinking through, look, okay, if something happens to me, let's make this person on our staff the interim, or let's pull this Board Member out and see if they'll be the interim. Or they'll start to engage in the ideas for how that could work in interim a structure. And as long as you can get that interim structure put in place and everybody's in agreement that it's workable, that then gives a chance during the interim structure for the Board to go out and begin doing a search to find a replacement candidate. Regarding succession planning for a Founder – S/he just might not be willing to step aside. They might have created a whole lack of number twos in the organization who can step in, even in an emergency. It just may not be anybody. So that's a different situation where the board needs to probably, in addition to working on trust, which can be very difficult with the founder. You might be off the board if you start having those kind of conversations. But what you can do as a board is do your research. How would you do a search? You can get your research done on executive search firms who could step in and help you. You can just keep in mind, and Tommy, you're the one who should be telling your podcast listeners this, but it's a long process to do a search. You've got to set up a search committee. You got to figure out how you're going to recruit the person. You've got to have an approach. You have to execute it, you have to review the candidates. It's just really time consuming. You at least have to think through all of these, how that's a minimum thing, even if it's a founder situation. I'd say two things. Number one, for sure, have an interim emergency succession plan, no questions asked. That's an absolute minimum mandate for every board. And number two, if you're on a founder board, you have to do some special extra work along the side with networking, quiet networking, just to figure out the process and figure out how you would do, how would you do that if something did happen to your founder, if your founder's not willing to participate or help with that. Does that make sense? ++++++++++++++ [00:11:33] Tommy Thomas: Rich Stearns, President Emeritus at World Vision US. Prior to joining World Vision, Rich was CEO for multiple organizations in the private sector, thus reporting to their Boards. He cut his teeth on nonprofit Board Governance as President of World Vision US. When I interviewed you back in 2017 you mentioned that from your perspective, the best thing that the World Vision Board did for you when you came on was you recalled an offsite retreat where y'all got introduced to each other. Could you share a little bit about that with us? I think we probably have a lot of up and coming CEOs listening and that might be an interesting discussion. [00:12:14] Rich Stearns: Yeah, I don't know how much that costs. Probably not much, but it was the best money World Vision ever spent. When I came into World Vision the Board and the CEO had what I'd call a turbulent relationship. He wasn't thrilled about his board and the way they behaved, and the Board wasn't thrilled about him in certain ways. And so, I was coming into kind of a troubled marriage, right? You could say there'd been a divorce, and I'm the new husband coming in. And so, the Board had enough wisdom to say, you know what, we should start off on the right foot here. Why don't we hire a board consultant to come in and do a two-day retreat with a new CEO to teach the Board and the new CEO, how best they should interact and communicate with one another. So, a friend of yours and mine named Bob Andringa, he's retired now, but he was in the Board consulting business. He's written at least one book, if not several. He came in and he conducted a Board Governance 101, 102 course for all of us. And gave us tools to use and dealt with different scenarios of here are the dos and don'ts for Board Members. Here are the dos and don'ts for the staff and the CEO. Here is the best way to understand your responsibility as Board Members. This is what your responsibility is, and this is what your responsibility is not. This is the role you play. This is the role you don't play. And same with a CEO, Rich, your role is this the board's role is to establish policy. I guess the best way to say it is it laid down the ground rules for a healthy relationship. And I don't think it's an exaggeration to say I had a 20-year honeymoon with my board. Not that there weren't an occasional, marital argument over the years. But it was like a 20-year honeymoon with the board. And I respected them, they respected me. My staff, when I first started, after a year, they said, boy, you've had a one-year honeymoon with this board. It's amazing. Because they'd seen some of the dysfunction in the prior years. And 20 years later, they were still saying you're still on your honeymoon. And I in terms of my response, what I attribute it to, is what I talked about earlier, Tommy, that the board knew they could trust me. I would never tell them a lie. I would never hide anything. I was completely transparent. Anything they wanted to talk about at a board meeting, we could talk about. Any numbers they wanted to see, we'd show them. If I had some bad numbers, I'd bring them to the board and say, look, this is not good, and here's what we're going to do. They never felt I was hiding anything. And so that created trust as well. [00:15:03] Tommy Thomas: One of the guys that you've influenced over the years is Joe Mettimano at Central Union Mission. And when I interviewed Joe there, he talked about a lesson he learned from you about the president's report to the board. He would attribute part of his success to what he learned from you there. Tell us about that. [00:15:22] Rich Stearns: I started every board meeting with a president's report. So, the Board is gathered, in the case of World Vision they've flown in from all over the country, and here they are at the World Vision board meeting and remember, they're all volunteers, some are pastors, some are business people. They're from all walks of life and so I tried to use the President's Report to basically bring them up to speed on what was going on at World Vision. What were the important issues? What were we doing about the important issues? How are the finances doing? I tried to answer as many questions as they might have in advance. Because the rest of the board meeting, the finance committee was going to meet and other committees were going to meet. And I tried to use the President's Report to cast a bit of a vision for where we were as an organization, where we're headed, what my outlook was for the coming year or the coming quarter. And I try to use the Board Meeting to really cast a vision to remind them of the mission of World Vision. Often, I would start with a trip report. I've just gotten back from the Syrian refugee crisis, and I want to tell you what I saw. I would remind them, we're sitting here in a nice boardroom, but people are dying all over the world. And our job is to intercede for them to help them to rescue those who are perishing as the book of Proverbs says. And so, trying to remind them why they were here, why World Vision was here and then look under the hood at, the financials, the numbers, the revenues, the overhead, and you had to deal with issues like real estate transactions and mundane stuff like that. I wanted to always to put it in the context of the bigger mission, vision and values of the organization. My President's Report would sometimes go 90 minutes to two hours which is a lot. But usually, the board would say that was the highlight of the meeting because that really brought them up to date on everything. +++++++++++++++= [00:17:16] Tommy Thomas: Paul Maurer, President at Montreat College. Paul is a student of Board Governance and identifies as a “governance nerd”. Paul is on his second college presidency and has learned a lot – some through the school of hard knocks about effective Board Governance. And a lot of people that I talk with, there's a move toward lowering the mean age of the board and increasing diversity. What kind of experience have y'all had at Montreat around those issues? [00:17:45] Paul Maurer: We're intentionally trying to increase diversity. We've not found that to be an easy pathway, but we are we are committed to it. And on age I would just gently push back on the median age lowering. I'm very much of the Aristotelian camp that young people have less wisdom. And part of what you want for board members is wisdom. Wisdom comes with experience, and experience comes with age and the hard knocks of life and just the journey of life with gray hair and getting beat up occasionally. And I want younger people on the board, but that's less common. They're actually very hard to get on the board because they're less qualified candidates in my view, and they're uber busy with career and family. So, the young members, the 30 somethings, I have on my board, I have two of them. They're like up to their eyeballs, four or five kids each, they're CEOs or leaders in their own rights and rising in the ranks. And these people have large portfolios and enormous demands on their time. Then my 70- and 80-year-olds, and I even have a 91-year-old board member who I recruited at the age of 87. And he said to me, he said, Paul, what if I die? And I said, Bill what if I die? We're all going to die. You've got a lot of gas left in your tank. You've got enormous amount of wisdom. And you may have others who think that you're too old to be a board member. I don't think that at all. And if a day should come when your health has slipped, your metro capacities have slipped, we'll have that conversation and we'll have it openly and honestly. Honestly the seventies, eighties, and 90-year-old trustees I have are easily among my best trustees. They're phenomenal. [00:20:04] Tommy Thomas: Let's change over a little bit to the board aspect of being a president. What was the biggest adjustment that you had to make between, say, reporting to the CEO as a cabinet member and then as the President reporting to the Board? [00:20:20] Paul Maurer: Yeah, it's a great question. I'm a bit of a governance nerd. I really think about and study governance. I did that in my doctoral work. I do it as a college president in nonprofit governance. And so, the president needs clarity. What is the role of the board? What is the role of the president? What's the role of the relationship and what's the role of everyone else on campus in relationship to the board? And so, in the world of board governance, there are working boards and there are policy boards. Startups tend to have working boards, like true startups, like really small organizations. More established organizations. If they haven't transitioned to a policy board, they probably ought to consider doing so. Because you don't really want a board involved in the operations of an organization. And so, I'm deeply grateful that my board gave me the lead role in board development, meaning recruitment of new board members, training of board, the board policy manual. And we have a great board today, and they really understand that the board should not be involved in operations. That's the CEO's job but should be sure that they're being fiduciaries, that they're making sure there's a strategic plan that's being carried out their success along the way and that they manage or evaluate. They don't manage, they evaluate the presidents. They hire and fire the president, the CEO. I do think that my argument would be that it's more important for a President to be a CEO than a President. The President is, as I think of a bit of an old model for college leadership, it's rooted in what I think is not a very useful model of shared governance. I think the CEO is a better model, but you also need a CEO who's sensitive to campus dynamics and the idea that consensus really matters. And a consensus building CEO I think is the best model, but I think that the CEO also needs to be the CUO - the Chief Urgency Officer. Because things are changing so fast. Links & Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Two Previous Best of Board Governance Episodes: 2023 – Best of Board Service Part 1 2023 – Best of Board Service Part 2 Episodes Featuring These Excerpts Christin McClave – Insights into Board Governance Rich Stearns – President Emeritus World Vision US – An Inauspicious Leadership Journey – Part 2 Alvin Sanders – Board Governance Caryn Ryan – Board Governance Paul Maurer – Board Governance Connect tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Follow Tommy on LinkedIn
IN THIS REPEAT: A chat with Drs. Don King and Hal Poe on writing. What can a person learn about how to improve one's writing from C.S. Lewis and J.R.R. Tolkien? That was the subject Dr. Don King and Dr. Hal Poe addressed in a session I moderated to kick off a Creative Writing Festival held for high school students at Montreat College on March 31, 2017. This was held just prior to the start of and apart from the Inklings Fellowship Weekend Retreat. At the last minute it ended up being recorded and the results were better than expected, so I thought I'd share the enjoyable time I had with Don and Hal chatting about Lewis and Tolkien in relation to writing. Note that below is are links to an online list of Lewis' works as well as a handout that Dr. King makes reference to that you might find useful. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ See List of Lewis' Writings (online) Handout from Dr. Don King (download Word file) Visit Inklings Fellowship Website Listen to Previous Interviews with Dr. Don King Listen to Previous Interviews with Dr. Hal Poe Listen to C. S. Lewis and the Art of Writing (Dr. Corey Latta) Purchase Lewis Books on Amazon Listen to All About Jack on iTunes Purchase C.S. Lewis Goes to Hell Visit ScrewtapeCompanion.com Visit EssentialCSLewis.com Purchase The Misquotable C.S. Lewis
The Dean of Spiritual Formation at Montreat College, Rev. Rachel Toone, continues our series through the book of Mark. This week, narrowing in on Mark 9:14-29. Our apologies for the poor audio quality for the first half of the message. It improves tremendously midway through.
In this podcast episode, Douglas Coleman welcomes Dr. William R. Forstchen, a best-selling author and professor at Montreat College. They discuss the current heatwave in Las Vegas and then delve into Dr. Forstchen's book series, "One Second After," which focuses on the devastating impact of an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack. Dr. Forstchen explains the consequences of an EMP attack, including the potential death of 80 to 90% of Americans within the first year. They also discuss the vulnerability of modern society and the importance of being prepared. The episode concludes with information about Dr. Forstchen's latest book and a lighthearted moment between the host and guest.For more information about the One Second After series, please visithttps://www.onesecondafter.com/The Douglas Coleman Show now offers audio and video promotional packages for music artists as well as video promotional packages for authors.Please see our website for complete details. http://douglascolemanshow.comIf you have a comment about this episode or any other, please click the link below.https://ratethispodcast.com/douglascolemanshowPlease help us to continue to bring you quality content by showing your support for our show. https://fundrazr.com/e2CLX2?ref=ab_eCTqb8
EMPs and One Second After Series with William Forstchen, Ph.D. Military historian William R. Forstchen, Ph.D., considers himself an optimist by nature, even though he has written extensively about the catastrophic impact of an EMP strike and has spent nearly two decades urging national and local governments to heed his warnings. Widely considered one of the foremost experts on EMP attacks, Forstchen is the New York Times bestselling author of the One Second After series, a fictional exploration rooted in the cold, solid facts of how an EMP strike above U.S. soil would impact society. There are now four books in the series, which should give people hope that survival is possible, with the right measures and mindset in place. William R. Forstchen has a Ph.D. from Purdue University with specializations in Military History and the History of Technology. He is a Faculty Fellow and Professor of History at Montreat College. He is the author of fifty books including the New York Times bestselling series One Second After, the Lost Regiment series, and the award-winning young adult novel, We Look Like Men of War. He has also authored numerous short stories and articles about military history and military technology. For more information visit: www.onesecondafter.com *************************************************** For more information about BITEradio products and services visit: http://www.biteradio.me/index.html To view the photography of Robert at: rpsharpe.picfair.com
On this episode of Good Money, Tho is joined by Tate Fegley of Montreat College. Dr. Fegley talks about his lectures from Mises University on policing, AI, and the deep state, and the important topic of economic calculation that connects the three. In the final segment, Tho looks at the economics of college football in the aftermath of FSU's threat of secession from their conference. Good Money listeners can order a special $5 book bundle that includes How To Think About the Economy and What Has Government Done to Our Money? with free shipping using promo code "GoodMoney" at Mises.org/Good Receive a free subscription to The Austrian magazine at Mises.org/Magazine
Marti Sementelli is a female baseball player who received a baseball scholarship from Montreat College in North Carolina in 2011. Marti has 13 years of International experience with the USA Women's National Baseball Team, where she has won a GOLD medal in 2015 (Canada, Pam American Games), two SILVER medals in 2012 & 2014 (Canada & Japan, World Cup) and two BRONZE medals 2008 & 2010 (Japan & Venezuela, World Cup). She was the recipient of the "Best Pitcher Award" in the 2008 Japan World Cup. Shelby Estocado has been an athlete all her life and played for Team USA as a member of the National Baseball Women's Team in 2016. On February 23, 2020, she suffered an accident while snowboarding at Lee Canyon near Las Vegas. After losing control on a jump and landing on her back, Estocado broke her sternum and T-6 vertebrae resulting in a serious spinal cord injury and paralyzing her from the chest down. Though the way Estocado participates in sports has changed, her drive, athleticism, and competitive nature have not. After a long road to recovery, with various levels of rehabilitation and lots of hard work, she now has her sights set on the Paralympic games with hopes to compete in skiing and basketball. The High Fives Foundation is an adaptive sports foundation focuses on preventing life-changing injuries and provides resources and hope if they do happen. Learn more: https://highfivesfoundation.org/
Marti Sementelli is a female baseball player who received a baseball scholarship from Montreat College in North Carolina in 2011. Marti has 13 years of International experience with the USA Women's National Baseball Team, where she has won a GOLD medal in 2015 (Canada, Pam American Games), two SILVER medals in 2012 & 2014 (Canada & Japan, World Cup) and two BRONZE medals 2008 & 2010 (Japan & Venezuela, World Cup). She was the recipient of the "Best Pitcher Award" in the 2008 Japan World Cup. Shelby Estocado has been an athlete all her life and played for Team USA as a member of the National Baseball Women's Team in 2016. On February 23, 2020, she suffered an accident while snowboarding at Lee Canyon near Las Vegas. After losing control on a jump and landing on her back, Estocado broke her sternum and T-6 vertebrae resulting in a serious spinal cord injury and paralyzing her from the chest down. Though the way Estocado participates in sports has changed, her drive, athleticism, and competitive nature have not. After a long road to recovery, with various levels of rehabilitation and lots of hard work, she now has her sights set on the Paralympic games with hopes to compete in skiing and basketball. The High Fives Foundation is an adaptive sports foundation focuses on preventing life-changing injuries and provides resources and hope if they do happen. Learn more: https://highfivesfoundation.org/
Most people have lived through minor power outages lasting anywhere from a few hours to a few days. But what would happen if the power went out and didn't come back on? Historian William R. Forstchen, Ph.D., warns that if something were to cripple the U.S. power grid — an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) for instance — it would trigger a cascade of deadly events, and long-term survival would depend on being in the right place at the right time with the right food supply. William R. Forstchen is a New York Times bestselling author and a Professor of History at Montreat College, in Montreat, North Carolina. He holds a doctoral degree from Purdue University with a specialization in military history and technology. He is the author of more than 50 books, including the One Second After series that details the realistic effects of an EMP strike. He is a noted expert historian and public speaker and has been interviewed on FOX News, C-SPAN and many others on topics ranging from history to technology and cultural issues, to space technology development, to security threats. Widely considered one of the foremost experts on EMP attacks, Forstchen is also the New York Times bestselling author of the One Second After series, a fictional exploration rooted in the cold, solid facts of how an EMP strike above U.S. soil would impact society. The latest book in the series, Five Years After, follows protagonist John Matherson as he contends with new threats to the fragile civilization that he helped rebuild.
[00:00:00] Tommy Thomas: This week, we're continuing the conversation that we began last week with Paul Mauer, the president of Montreat College. If you missed that episode, we've talked about what one writer has referred to as the “Miracle at Montreat”. Today Paul is sharing lessons that he's learned about nonprofit board governance over the years. Let's change over a little bit to the board aspect of being a president. What was the biggest adjustment that you had to make between, say, reporting to the CEO as a cabinet member and then as the President reporting to the board? [00:00:40] Paul Maurer: Yeah, it's a great question. I'm a bit of a governance nerd. I really think about and study governance. I did that in my doctoral work. I do it as a college president in nonprofit governance. Your board policy manual really matters. It matters because your board needs clarity. The president needs clarity. What is the role of the board? What is the role of the president? What's the role of the relationship and what's the role of everyone else on campus in relationship to the board? And so, in the world of board governance, there are working boards and there are policy boards. Startups tend to have working boards, like true startups, like really small organizations, more established organizations. If they haven't transitioned to a policy board, they probably ought to consider doing so. Because you don't really want a board involved in the operations of an organization. I'm deeply grateful that my board gave me the lead role in board development, meaning recruitment of new board members, training of board members, and the board policy manual. And we have a great board today, and they really understand that the board should not be involved in operations. That's the CEO's job but one should be sure that they're being fiduciaries, that they're making sure there's a strategic plan that's being carried out, their success along the way, and that they manage or evaluate. They don't manage, they evaluate the presidents. They hire and fire the president, the CEO. I do think that my argument would be that it's more important for a President to be a CEO than a President. The President is, as I think of a bit of an old model for college leadership, it's rooted in what I think is not a very useful model of shared governance. I think the CEO is a better model, but you also need a CEO who's sensitive to campus dynamics and the idea that consensus really matters. And a consensus building CEO I think is the best model, but I think that the CEO also needs to be the CUO - the Chief Urgency Officer, because things are changing so fast. And if the CEO is not leading change with a great sense of urgency, then I think the institution puts itself at some measure of risk. [00:03:21] Tommy Thomas: You've served on other boards, and you've reported to at least two, give me some attributes of a great Board Chair. [00:03:29] Paul Maurer: I think the central role of a Board Chair is to manage the board. It's not principally to be a person of wealth or to be connected to persons of wealth. I don't think that's the right model for a Board Chair of a college. I think the right model is someone who understands nonprofit governance and manages the board meeting to meeting because the board ultimately is the boss of the President - CEO, only during those board meetings. So the board chair needs to constantly instill clarity in the board to encourage them and steer them away from being involved in operations from directing the presidents, and to maintaining the role of being an overseer that the CEO reports to three times a year or however many times a year that board meets. The best chairs I've worked with really understand governance and really do well in managing the board's expectations of what that governance entails. [00:04:41] Tommy Thomas: How does a good Board Chair draw out the silent board member? [00:04:47] Paul Maurer: In our board meetings, we have blocks of time for plenary sessions for the big picture items. And there's always time in there for dialogue and for feedback. And there are times when we build into our board meetings. When I give my board report, I give a little bit of a board update, a little bit of a report, and then I just open the floor to questions. And so there's just this open dialogue that I have with my board during the president's report at the beginning of the day and then the middle of the day during plenary sessions. If I'm informing or bringing an action item to the board as a whole, we are sure to build in time for dialogue, deliberation, questions, understanding, and in between board meetings, I'm sending information on kind of the latest update on what's happening in my world. So, they're getting articles on a regular, semi-regular basis that if they're able to take time to read them helps keep them abreast of the most pressing issues that I'm facing on a regular basis. [00:06:04] Tommy Thomas: So how often do you and your Board Chair, do y'all have regularly scheduled times or is it as needed? How do y'all relate to each other? [00:06:12] Paul Maurer: I'm aware that friendship is a tricky element in these things. I happen to have a very deep and strong friendship with my board chair, which preceded him coming on the board and he became a board member. And now as chair and I've changed my mind on this, Tommy, because there was a time earlier on when I thought that those were mutually exclusive and now, I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I think it can work very healthfully. And now I actually try to cultivate friendships with my board members in a way that I didn't early on in my first presidency, certainly not early on at Montreat. And so I think that dynamic when healthy is a really powerful part of making it work well. Any model can be abused. Any model can go awry. And I've seen that and I've heard about it an awful lot. I've experienced it. But I've also experienced the flip side of that, where a really meaningful friendship can also be the basis of a really healthy CEO-Board Chair relationship. [00:07:34] Tommy Thomas: Can you think back as to, you mentioned early on at Montreat you hadn't gotten there yet. What changed? [00:07:43] Paul Maurer: In the relationship with my board chair? [00:07:46] Tommy Thomas: Yeah, how did you make that transition from thinking it wasn't healthy to realizing that it could be healthy? [00:07:52] Paul Maurer: I guess experiencing it along the way, initially without intending it to be that, and I went, this actually works. And so, when my current chair, when I began discussions with him about, because he had led a major healthcare nonprofit and grown it from a $25 million budget to $125 million budget. He had led a nonprofit. He had worked in that sector for all of his career in healthcare, not in education. And so, I knew that I wanted him to be my next board chair when that time came. And so it was really then that I began to think in this kind of new model that maybe there's a way for and as I look back, I've actually had these like really healthy relationships with my past two board chairs here at Montreat. And gosh, what a better way to do it, and it really is possible. It eventually dawned on me that I could intentionally pursue that. [00:09:01] Tommy Thomas: Do you have a term limit for your board chair? [00:09:04] Paul Maurer: Five years, but it's year to year, up to five years. [00:09:09] Tommy Thomas: And what about your board members? [00:09:10] Paul Maurer: Nine years, the terms are three years renewable, two times for a nine year max with a one year minimum required off before renomination. One of the changes we made here was that every three-year term we do the board does self-evaluations for those that term and peer evaluations for those that come to term. There's an honest, self-reflective, peer reviewed process that goes through a committee on trusteeship every year for those at a term to ask the question, is this going well? Is this a time to continue on or a time to step off? And so it's not a nine, it's not a nine year. Every three years we talk about it. [00:10:08] Tommy Thomas: Is that fairly common in the nonprofit sector from your experience? [00:10:12] Paul Maurer: The board policy manual that we use was the work of Bob Andringa who was the CEO of the Council for Christian Colleges Universities some years ago. And Bob developed the BPM (Board Policy Manual) that we use. And as I understand it, there are 60 or 70 or 80, I think mostly CCCU schools that have adopted some version of Bob's work. And I just think it's so well-crafted and we of course made it ours with Bob's permission. And it's just a really, it's a really well done, thoughtful way to do governance. ++++++++++++++++++++ [00:10:53] Tommy Thomas: A lot of people that I talk with, there's a move toward lowering the mean age of the board and also increasing diversity. What kind of experience have y'all had at Montreat on those issues? [00:11:03] Paul Maurer: We're intentionally trying to increase diversity. We've not found that to be an easy pathway, but we are committed to it. And on age I would just gently push back on the median age lowering. I'm very much of the Aristotelian camp that young people have less wisdom. And part of what you want for board members is wisdom. Wisdom comes with experience, and experience comes with age and the hard knocks of life. And just the journey of life with gray hair and getting beat up occasionally. And I want younger people on the board, but that's more, that's less common. They're actually very hard to get on the board because they're less really qualified candidates in my view, and they're uber busy with career and family. So the young members I have, the 30 somethings I have on my board, I have two of them. They're like up to their eyeballs, four or five kids each, they're CEOs or leaders in their own rights and rising in the ranks. And these people have large portfolios and enormous demands on their time. Then my 70- and 80-year-olds, and even I have a 91-year-old board member who I recruited at the age of 87. And he said to me, he said, Paul, what if I die? And I said, Bill what if I die? We're all going to die. You've got a lot of gas left in your tank. You've got an enormous amount of wisdom. And you may have others who think that you're too old to be a board member. I don't think that at all. And if there comes a day when your health has slipped, your metro capacities have slipped, we'll have that conversation and we'll have it openly and honestly. Honestly, the seventies, eighties, and 90-year-old trustees I have are really easily among my best trustees. They're phenomenal. [00:13:22] Tommy Thomas: Let me get you to respond to this quote. You need a director on the board who will be a pleasant irritant, someone who will force people to think a little differently. That's what a good board does. [00:13:39] Paul Maurer: I think I would probably not gravitate toward the word irritant, and I would say I, I'd probably substitute something a little softer than that, that you want to be objective and you want to be able to deal with the hard issues. And frankly, the CEO ought to be leading the way on that, not a board member. I think it's fine for a board member to raise difficult or uncomfortable matters, and I certainly have board members who do that, and I think that's fine and it's healthy, but I think that can come by from different means, and it can come without it being quote unquote, maybe I'm just hung up on the word irritant. I think you can have really robust, difficult, honest, truthful conversations without it being irritating. [00:14:40] Tommy Thomas: Okay. Talk about your philosophy or your use of the executive committee? [00:14:48] Paul Maurer: I think it's vital and extremely valuable in a healthy board situation, and I'm qualifying a lot of my comments with a healthy board because I've worked for both healthy and unhealthy boards. I happen to be working for a very healthy board in my time here at Montreat. And so the executive committee functionally is a decision that needs to be made quickly between board meetings and the CEO either doesn't have the authority or just wisely wants the board to help own that decision and goes to the executive committee in between board meetings for a fast decision. Early in my time here, I used that executive committee with more frequency than I do now. But I don't have the number of fires now that I had back in 14, 15, 16, 17. And so I still use the executive committee, but it's less frequent and the larger board has fully embraced the executive committee in that way. [00:16:01] Tommy Thomas: How often do you use the executive session? [00:16:04] Paul Maurer: Every board meeting, we have two executive sessions, one with the president and one without the president. Actually in inverse order - the first without the president. And then I'm brought back in for executive session with the president and where I'm told what was discussed in session without the president fully briefed and then engaging in a conversation where it's just me and the board in whatever they want to talk about freely, they don't feel free to talk about necessarily with a cabinet in the room. +++++++++++++++++++++ [00:16:37] Tommy Thomas: We mentioned strategic planning a few minutes ago. Does your board, are they involved in that, or do you and your staff bring that to the board? [00:16:44] Paul Maurer: The latter in our board policy manual, the board's role is to approve a strategic plan recommended by the president and to receive updates and make sure that the CEO is making progress on the strategic plan. And so I give reports on the strategic plan, but the board is not involved in the creation of the strategic plan. [00:17:07] Tommy Thomas: How does the CEO evaluation take place at Montreat? [00:17:11] Paul Maurer: So I submit a set of goals to the board on an annual basis that are metrics tied to the strategic plan, and they're evaluated at the end of the year. And we, in our executive session, have a conversation about my delivery toward those goals. [00:17:32] Tommy Thomas: Is that on an annual basis? [00:17:35] Paul Maurer: It is in our policy manual. It is an annual activity. [00:17:39] Tommy Thomas: How have you and your board addressed board turnover? In terms of maybe involuntary or voluntary? I guess people decide they don't have time. They don't enjoy it. How are y'all doing with that? [00:17:53] Paul Maurer: We've grown our board over the years, but we've certainly had people who, I had two resignations in this last run up to my board meeting last week. And they were just personal situations that they felt like they just needed to focus on some personal matters that they didn't feel like they could do justice to their service on the board. And we regretfully accepted their resignations. But in those cases, it had nothing to do with the college or the board or it was purely personal. That's mostly what we've experienced over these years. Most of our trustees go to term and we have them term out after nine years. We celebrate them and thank them. We've grown our board from our bylaws. Say that we can have between 12 and 36. It's a very wide range. When I first got here, we were in that 12 to 15 range for a number of years. Maybe ironically, maybe not. Ironically, during covid we had just a tremendous breakthrough in people saying yes to joining the board. I do a lot of board cultivation with board members who are bringing prospective trustee names to the table. We have a very robust list of prospective trustees at all times. Somewhere between 10 and 15 on our prospect list. And some go fast, some go slow, some never materialize. We're about 20 board members today. Our target is to get in somewhere between 25 and 28. [00:19:31] Tommy Thomas: What kind of strategy do you use to keep that list at 15 to 20? [00:19:36] Paul Maurer: Probably closer to 10 to 15. Yeah. And that's really the work of the committee on trusteeship to surface names. We also have, as we recruit new board members in, they bring fresh names to that list. So we're constantly messaging like that. That's a document. That's a living, breathing document. And some people stay on the A-list, some move to the B, some move to, we ask and they said no. We've got six or eight tabs on that spreadsheet, and it's constantly a living, breathing kind of document. [00:20:15] Tommy Thomas: This might be a mundane question, but I hear it asked a lot. Do you have a board meeting evaluation fairly regularly, or how do y'all approach that? [00:20:25] Paul Maurer: Every board meeting, as soon as the board meeting is over, they get a email in their inbox asking them to fill out an evaluation of the board meeting. They've just finished. We give just a small number of days to do that so it's fresh in their minds. And then the Committee on Trusteeship takes that feedback which is both on a Likert scale as well as open comments available to, for them to make. And then that is discussed at the next committee on trusteeship meeting. And we're always trying to get better and refine and bring some changes to how the board meetings are conducted. And those surveys have served a very valuable role in that way. [00:21:09] Tommy Thomas: What did you learn through Covid that you'll take forward? That maybe you didn't do before Covid in terms of board relationships and board governance? [00:21:19] Paul Maurer: One of the observations I made during Covid was man, we're in this together. And my board chair is a public health expert, as I mentioned before and when Covid hit I remember calling him in early April and I said I don't have a clue how we're going to reopen. Can you help us? And he said I'd love to help you. And I said I've developed a friendship with the other four-year residential college presidents here in Western North Carolina. There are four privates and then a couple of major publics. Would you be willing to help them too? And he said, absolutely I would. That group of six presidents plus my board chair met on a zoom call at noon every Wednesday for a year and a half to figure out how to open residential both years of covid. And that was a powerful experience of teamwork and collaboration and friendship and setting aside the inevitable competition that exists between these institutions and saying, there's a bigger picture here, and I think the benefit of that was very great for all of us. The second thing I'd point to is that the level of fear that I observed during covid was something I'd never seen before, how widespread, how deep it was. And so the word courage became a central concept that whatever we did, we needed to really lean into the courage of critical thinking and what's best for the institution, what's best for the students and the staff here. And there was no one size fits all in Covid in vastly different circumstances in different parts of the country. Vastly different realities of the impact of covid with different age groups and so we had to make decisions for 18- to 22-year-olds in our campus and our employees. That's how we had to make decisions. And you can't possibly have state mandates or county mandates or federal recommendations fit every circumstance. And we made decisions that we believed to be in the best interest of our community. And we took some criticism for that. But overall, I would say that those who chose that kind of a pathway were probably more rewarded than not. +++++++++++++++++++= [00:24:20] Tommy Thomas: I'll ask you two final questions and we'll try to land this thing. Go to the board and the CEO's succession plan. What have y'all done there to ensure some sort of untimely succession? [00:24:35] Paul Maurer: So we're actually just starting that conversation like literally last Friday at the board meeting with kind of keyman questions. And we haven't done a lot there on the longer question of succession. I've started thinking about that. I'd like to stay longer. I don't really have an interest in retirement. Not at this point anyway. And today I'd love to go another decade or so. We'll see what happens. But I'm increasingly of the mind that the best succession plan is to bring one or more people onto your team who may have the potential and groom them. Talk openly about succession and see what happens with the possibility that the CEO can actually play a central role in the recommendation of his or her successor. The way the church does this, and the way colleges and universities do this, in my experience the pastor and the president really play very little role at all. Either limited or none. And the more I've been thinking about this and talking to peers about this, the less that makes sense to me. And again, in a healthy situation, the board I think could and should rightly lean on and engage at a very deep level, the CEO of the college to say, what do you think? Who do you think we should hire? What are the core competencies? Can we get that person on board? And so, what I'd like to do in the years ahead is get two or three, maybe even four people on my cabinet who have the potential capacity for becoming a college president and see if we can't raise one of them up into the role as my successor. Whether that works or not, I can't predict that, but that to me seems like a wise model if you can do it healthfully. [00:26:43] Tommy Thomas: What are you going to say if you get a call next week from either a friend or maybe someone you don't know that says Paul, I've been asked to serve on a nonprofit board. What kind of council are you giving somebody who's considering a nonprofit board service? [00:27:00] Paul Maurer: It ought to be done with a significant measure of time, talent, and treasure. It ought to be a major commitment of yours if you're serving on lots of nonprofit boards. Unless you're willing to put this new one at a higher level of commitment than the others, maybe you shouldn't do it. I think that the best board members of nonprofits are vested. They've got skin in the game. They're giving of their time, their talent, and significantly of their treasure. The treasure's the hardest one, I think. We ask all of our trustees to commit to Montreat being a top three philanthropic priority prior to trusteeship. And that's a stumbling block for some people. But I think in the end, it also fosters the creation of a board that has skin in the game and that really is serious about the future of the institution. It's not a casual kind of volunteering. It's a serious kind of volunteering. [00:28:13] Tommy Thomas: It has been great. Paul, this has been so much fun. Thank you for carving out an hour and a half of your time for me. I appreciate it. [00:28:20] Paul Maurer: Tommy, I've enjoyed it very much. You ask a lot of very good questions and I'm certain that your podcasts are of great value to those in leadership and those thinking about leadership. So, thank you. ++++++++++++++++++++++++ [00:28:32] Tommy Thomas (2): Next week, we're going to conclude the conversation that we started with Caryn Ryan and Episode 84. In that conversation, Caryn shared her leadership journey from BP/AMOCO to CFO for World Vision International to her current role as Founder and Managing Member of Missionwell. In next week's episode, Caryn will be sharing lessons on nonprofit board governance that she's learned over the years. [00:29:04] Caryn Ryan: There's a lot of financial literacy questions there. So how can you ask tough questions if you can't read the financial statements or financial reports and understand them? And sometimes there's issues with what's delivered to boards too, in terms of information, but sometimes it's just a basic lack of understanding. I think too, there's also a fundamental issue that sometimes with boards, they don't get enough board development or board training and they really just don't understand their key role when it comes to accountability. And so, they don't understand that it's their job to ask the tough questions. ++++++++++++++++ Links and Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Montreat College Website The Miracle at Montreat Montreat College Facebook Montreat College Instagram Connect Tommy Thomas - tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Tommy's LinkedIn Profile Paul Maurer's LinkedIn Profile
This week, we're wrapping up our time in the Sermon on the Mount – a part of scripture that is rich, profound, and full of depths to plumb. In a world that can make us feel ambivalent, this is what Jesus wants us to know about following him. WHAT DOES IT SAY? Our verses this week are Matthew 7:13-14: “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.” Is this a passage about salvation? How do I know if I have found the road? This passage lends itself to a lot of questions. WHAT'S THE BACKSTORY? Psalm 1 – Jesus is bringing us back to this psalm – we can see how this sermon might be an expounding on this Psalm. Deuteronomy 30:19 – “I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse, therefore choose life…” Jesus would be speaking to people who understand the law and sets up two choices just like this verse does, blessings vs curses. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? Our fruit is evidence of our salvation or lack thereof. Success is not the same as fruit. The unsparkly faithfulness and obedience are what looks like attractive fruit to him. WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR ME? Are you bearing fruit for the kingdom? Not the fruits of this world (success, wealth, fame) but the steady persevering fruit that makes you planted like a strong, sturdy oak tree. Are you bearing the aroma of Christ? Are people drawn to Christ because of you? If you feel like you are incapable of doing this, you might be just where God wants you. The invitation is generous and inclusive – anyone who comes to me, Jesus says – will have eternal life. ABOUT RACHEL: Rev. Rachel Toone joined Montreat College in July 2018 as the Dean of Spiritual Formation. She holds a B.A. in Theology from Whitworth University, an MDiv. from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and she is currently enrolled in the Doctor of Ministry program at Trinity School for Ministry. Rev. Toone is an ordained teaching elder by the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. When she is not working, Rev. Toone enjoys traveling, hiking, and reading old books. RESOURCES: Nicole's Book: Help My Bible Is Alive! Ask Nicole a Bible study question: nicole@nicoleunice.com FOLLOW NICOLE: Website: https://nicoleunice.com/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nicoleuniceInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoleunice/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicole.unice/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
[00:00:00] Paul Maurer: I've had mentors for probably close to 45 years now, and early on it was people who reached out to me. And then as I got older and hopefully a little bit wiser, I began to reach out to others to ask them to mentor me. People who I thought were wiser, more experienced, had something to contribute, could sharpen an area where I wasn't particularly sharp. And so the collection of mentors over the course of my lifetime is not small and in the aggregate has played a very powerful role in my life. +++++++++++++++++++++++ [00:00:37] Tommy Thomas: Today, we'll begin a two-part series with Paul Mauer, the president of Montreat College. When Paul was selected to be the president of Montreat, the college wasn't very far from closing its doors. What's happened at Montreat over the past nine years is nothing short of miraculous. Today Paul will share a bit of his leadership journey and the early days of his presidency at Montreat. Before we dive too deep into your professional career, let's go back to your childhood a little bit. What two or three experiences do you think happened back then that shaped you into the man you are today? [00:01:16] Paul Maurer: I think being raised in a stable home with a mother and father who stayed together and taught me the value of work and they modeled consistency. They modeled resiliency, they modeled work ethic. In addition to the DNA that I got from my parents, I was deeply shaped by watching a low drama, stable home environment. [00:01:45] Tommy Thomas: So, what was high school like? [00:01:48] Paul Maurer: Honestly, pretty unremarkable except for the fact that I came to faith during high school as a sophomore through the Ministry of Young Life, and that changed everything. I began to understand friendship. I began to understand love. I began to understand family in a whole new way. I began to understand the power, the body of Christ. I began to understand fellowship. I began to understand purpose and meaning in life. I'd grown up in a stable moral home, but not a home of faith. And so as I got plugged into the church and youth group as a 15 year old sophomore in high school, I felt like I began to see things that I simply could not see before that. [00:02:38] Tommy Thomas: When you got to college how did you decide on your major? [00:02:42] Paul Maurer: Anything without math. So, I chose psychology and communications as my two majors, and early in college, I began to sense a call to ministry and I was at the University of Cincinnati, so I wasn't at a faith-based college. I chose majors that would help me understand people better and to communicate better. And those were things that were interesting to me. [00:03:13] Tommy Thomas: What's something that most people are always surprised to learn about you? [00:03:19] Paul Maurer: I am a first gen. My parents were immigrants. I don't know whether they're surprised by that, but it's an important part of my past and informs a lot of how I think about the college presidency today and how I think about our students. I had the benefit of immigrant parents and the challenge of immigrant parents, and both were real, and both were formative and powerful in my life. [00:03:45] Tommy Thomas: So go back to maybe to your first management job when you actually had some people reporting to you. What do you remember? [00:03:53] Paul Maurer: I don't know if it was my first management job, but I learned early in management that there's a reason people don't want to manage people. It takes a lot of time. It's hard to build culture. There's a lot of self-interest. There's a natural silo mentality to individuals who work for you, and in the worst-case scenario, there are lawsuits to deal with. And so as I've observed human behavior and leadership I've observed a lot of people who simply don't want to manage people. And so I think if you're in a role of leadership, you've got to decide pretty early on or certainly somewhere early along the way, whether or not you're willing to manage people and take the challenges that come with the benefits of management and leadership. [00:04:47] Tommy Thomas: It seems like in our culture that that's a natural career track that maybe people expect you to go to work and become a manager. And there doesn't seem to be a key contributor role necessarily at the forefront. Do you have any observations on that? [00:05:03] Paul Maurer: I think as a young person the expectations I think ought to be toward how do I contribute, how do I learn, how do I get mentored? How do I show that I'm worthy of more responsibility? And, as a young person, I demonstrated trust in those areas. They may be given leadership but not everyone, of course, is a natural leader and some people don't want to lead, and others learn the leadership skills along the way. And so I think it's a very organic process, particularly for someone in their twenties and thirties. [00:05:50] Tommy Thomas: Successful people are asked all the time, what makes you successful? And I'm sure you've been asked that question. I'd like to frame it a little bit differently. What's a factor that's helped you succeed that most people on the outside probably wouldn't realize or recognize? [00:06:06] Paul Maurer: For me I think the most important part of that was mentors who believed in me. Again, I was a first gen. I didn't have a lot of confidence in my academic ability. I didn't have a lot of confidence in who I am. And I was a young Christian by the time I'd gotten to college. The power of affirmation was very great in my life. A couple of mentors who said who I regarded and respected, people who spoke into my life, and then they spoke affirmation into my life. And I'll never forget how incredibly powerful that was in helping me gain confidence in who God might be making me into, and the roles that God might be leading me into. And I'm mindful of that in my role in leadership, that the power of affirmation spoken in the right context, in the right hearing can be extraordinarily powerful, disproportionately powerful, to how a young person develops and believes in themself and believes what God has in store for them. [00:07:19] Tommy Thomas: Did these mentors just show up or do you think they were intentional in terms of seeing you and taking you on as a mentee? [00:07:29] Paul Maurer: It was a combination. I've had mentors all my life, so I've had mentors for probably close to 45 years now, and early on it was people who reached out to me. And then as I got older and hopefully a little bit wiser, I began to reach out to others to ask them to mentor me. People who I thought were wiser, more experienced, had something to contribute, could sharpen an area where I wasn't particularly sharp. And so the collection of mentors over the course of my lifetime is not small and in the aggregate has played a very powerful role in my life. [00:08:11] Tommy Thomas: Do you think college students today are open to mentors? Do they seek that out or are they on a different wavelength? [00:08:18] Paul Maurer: I wouldn't generalize that. I think some are and some aren't, and I think that was probably the way it was when I was a college student. Some aren't. If you're hungry, if you want to grow, if you want to learn, if you have a vision for the future, if you have some requisite version of humility that you don't have all the answers, don't know everything, then I think people are very open to mentoring. I've got a student who works in my office 10 hours per week every semester here, so-called the Wilson Scholars Program here at the college. And my Wilson Scholar this year was a sophomore student from Ukraine. And she was hungry. She's really eager to learn and she has tremendous promise. But not everyone is like that, not everyone has those qualities. So I would be very hesitant to generalize about a generation and say it just depends. +++++++++++++++++++++ [00:09:12] Tommy Thomas: Okay. I've never asked this next question to anybody because I don't think I've interviewed anybody that studied the American presidency in graduate school and I just think that's fascinating. And I'm just wondering if you might just reflect back on that for a few minutes and talk about are there any generalizations you learned about the American presidency and leadership and influence? [00:09:35] Paul Maurer: Yeah, I love talking about that topic and I was drawn to the American presidency because I'm very interested in leadership and I'm very interested in faith and scripture, and I'm very interested in American politics, and the intersection of all those things led me to the American presidency and to do research on the role of moral and religious rhetoric during the course of the American presidency. And so I created a lexicon of distinctly religious rhetoric for the American presidency that stretched from Washington through Clinton. I was in grad school at the time, shortly after Clinton, so that's where the research took me. And I discovered that there was a tremendous amount of increased use of distinctly religious rhetoric, beginning with Jimmy Carter in the White House and the modern era, starting with Carter and extending to Reagan. And then Clinton as well, had very high levels of religious and moral rhetoric as part of how these presidents spoke. And that before that they weren't exceptionally low in particular, but they spiked during the, particularly the Carter and Reagan years. And so the focus of my research was a comparative analysis between Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, a Democrat or Republican back-to-back presidents and how they used religious and moral rhetoric in their presidency in particular, did they tie it to any public policy initiatives that were important to them as US President? [00:11:14] Tommy Thomas: Was it Reagan? No, I guess it was the Bush White House that did the faith-based initiative. Did any of your research have a tie to that initiative? [00:11:25] Paul Maurer: So for Jimmy Carter, he tied his faith rootedness, his understanding of scripture - his belief in a transcendent God. He tied that to human rights. What was interesting to me as I studied his rhetoric and record and policy on human rights is that the definition of human rights really expanded pretty dramatically in Carter's thinking and rhetoric. And I think it extended beyond his biblical understanding of faith. He might argue differently. But I thought it went beyond that. And for Reagan this question of liberty was directly tied to his belief in God and the Bible, and tied directly to his disdain, even hatred of communism. He thought that communism was a suppression of God-given liberty, and we needed to exercise our right to that God-given liberty and anyone who sought to oppress it he had very low esteem for, and of course, before he became a politician, he was an actor in Hollywood. It was a time in Hollywood where there was infiltration in Hollywood of certain communist elements. Tax rates were for him as an actor and the 90% range. And so there was a disincentive for him to work beyond a certain level of income. And so he grew both personally, professionally, but also politically to a point where he really sought to unhinge communism if he could possibly do and of course, as the forces of history were what they were, we saw the Berlin Wall come down. It wasn't simply Ronald Reagan. There were obviously economic factors in the Soviet Union. It was the economic pressures at the time. There were things being done behind the scenes from the papacy in Rome, but ultimately his focus on liberty resulted in part in the Berlin Wall coming down. So that was Reagan's primary connection to his faith as a public policy endeavor. [00:13:50] Tommy Thomas: Man, I bet that was some fascinating research in writing. [00:13:53] Paul Maurer: It kept me interested, which is what you want in a dissertation. You don't want to wake up going, gosh, I hate my dissertation today. ++++++++++++++++++++ [00:13:59] Tommy Thomas: Absolutely. Let's go to Montreat for a little bit. Depending on who one talks with, many would say it was nothing short of a miracle - what's happened in Montreat over the past few years. Can you take us into that? [00:14:13] Paul Maurer: Montreat today is 107 years old. Our campus is physically a small campus set against a mountain cove in Montreat, North Carolina, just outside of Asheville and the western mountains of the state. The campus was built for 500 students, but economics, the course of higher education in the last 20 or 30 years make that very difficult to survive. And so over many decades, really, as I'm told, Montreat had a number of near-death experiences where, of course, Montreat is where Billy and Ruth Graham lived for most of their lives after they got married. They actually got married in what today is our college chapel. We have a church that meets there, and they attended there when they were in town. But the college was too small and enrollment had declined. And in 2013, the college went into merger conversations with the school in Georgia. A year later, that merger conversation collapsed, and the college really had two options. As we see it, one is to close and the other is for God to show up in a big way. And there's a longer version of the story. But the quick version is that there was a donor who had visited the area a year and a half earlier and attended the church of one of our adjunct faculty members. And they began, after they went back to their home state after a seven-month sabbatical here, they began sending gifts to the church. The pastor didn't know these people well and wondered what was going on, but they were sending 50 and a hundred thousand dollar checks out of the blue without request. And a year and a half later, that faculty member, Jerry, is his name, reached out to the couple and said, we don't have a lot of needs at the church, but the college is in dire straits. Might you consider something big for the last fully Christ-centered four-year college in the state of North Carolina, in over six weeks of email only. Never a call, never visit. They never talked to a trustee. They made a 6 million pledge to the college. And so the trustees interpreted that as a miracle, I think rightly they started a search and I started a few months later and we got busy fast. There's a Gospel Coalition article that was written in 2019 by Sarah Altra entitled The Montreat Miracle. And if anyone wants to read that, just Google Montreat Miracle Gospel Coalition and the article will pop up. It's a remarkable story and we do think that God has a future and a purpose for this college, and he made it clearer when he prompted that couple to make that 6 million pledge. [00:17:03] Tommy Thomas: So what did your first hundred days look like? [00:17:07] Paul Maurer: It's all a blur, Tommy. We knew the clock was ticking even with a 6 million pledge, because at $300,000 per month hitting our back account, you're getting to $6 million in about two and a half years. We knew that wasn't enough, but we knew it was something very significant and we considered it what we called gas money. So we're fixing the plane while it's flying. And that was gas money to keep the plane in the air while we fixed it. And when a college has been in merger discussions for a year, there are a lot of things that aren't going well and that get reconfigured, org charts get squirrely, people leave. When I walked in the door in July 2014, I had five open cabinet positions and my VP of student life had started on July 1st. He was a green newbie to the role. And so, I had to find a cabinet. I had some interims in place, but I didn't have permanent people in place. I'd hire a cabinet to a college that had just gone through a near death experience. And we knew we had to grow enrollment. We knew we had to have a stable enrollment in fall of 2014. And by God's grace there were, a hundred fifty, a hundred forty-six new students, which is right at the five year average. But you can tell from 150 new students if you know anything about college enrollment, that is just way too small for sustainability. So we knew that we had to make a promise to the marketplace, but the most important thing that we did was to clarify our Christ-centered identity. We knew that if we were going to be a Christian college, we had to actually make that known and make sure that the core documents of the college, the mission statement, the statement of faith, the vision statement, the community life covenant, reflected a biblical worldview. The board agreed with that, and we got busy with that and we made some adjustments to the statement of faith. We put infallibility back into the statement of faith in a community life covenant that we added. We affirm that marriage is between one man and one woman as a biblical standard society. But God's design for marriage is exclusively one man and one woman. And that life begins at conception. And these are biblical principles that we believe are taught clearly in scripture. And we made those documents a condition of employment for the first time in the college's history and we took a lot of heat for that. It got really hot and we took a lot of criticism, and then 30 days later, the criticism kind of dried up, honestly. And the people who were supporting the fact that we took a courageous stand began to come out of the woodwork. They were there on the first 30 days as well, but they were left alone standing after 30 or 45 days. And so we've hired a mission. We have unity on campus, and the families of our region who care about that kind of education, who care about the moral compass for their sons and daughters, caught their attention. So all that bad publicity was actually great publicity for the college. [00:20:43] Tommy Thomas: So on your team you mentioned you had one rookie. Did you have a kind of a mixed bag of seasoned veterans and upstarts, or did you have to groom everything from the get-go? [00:20:56] Paul Maurer: It was a bunch of interims and so I had to hire five cabinet members for my first year, and a friend of mine suggested that we were a version of Ernest Shackleton's or Antarctic Exploration. And if you know anything about those years, Shackleton had an ad that he placed in the London Times in 1912 and the ad read as follows, men wanted for hazardous journey, small wages, bitter cold, long months of complete darkness, constant danger, safe return, doubtful, honor and recognition in case of success. And I gulped a few times, and then I went, that's actually who we are. We're the Christian college version of that. And I began to overtly recruit with that ad to the cabinet members who I was interviewing as finalists. And my simple question was, I asked them, I pulled up my phone, read this aloud, and then I would ask the question, does this ad excite you? Hint, hint. The only right answer is something like, oh yes, very much. And that's the team that I hired to come here. In 2014 and 2015 they came from all over the country. My CFO had a Harvard MBA. My Chief Academic Officer had his PhD from Cornell. And these were really high achieving, high academic, highly experienced people. But they came because they believed in this mission. They wanted to give their lives to something bigger. And I think they loved the challenge and to some degree they were willing to take the risk. Becuase I told them the only thing I can guarantee you is that you'll work harder than you've ever worked and you'll work faster than you've ever worked. And beyond that, I don't know if we're going to be open six or 12 months from now. And they came. [00:22:49] Tommy Thomas: So fast forward we're recording this in May. You've got the fall quarter coming in August. What do things look like for the next term? [00:22:58] Paul Maurer: So enrollment has grown here by over 70% in the last eight years, our traditional undergrad. And we're anticipating a new record enrollment for the fall of 23. We've added a number of new programs in our hundred percent online division. Most of those are master's programs. We now have 10 master's programs. Seven of them are in the last two years, and our online enrollment is beginning to grow because of those master's programs. And then our signature program has become cybersecurity and we've added a organization underneath Montreat College to help harden the cybersecurity defenses for the state, but also to generate a new revenue stream for the college because in the end, we've got to build a new business model, a new revenue economic model for the college, which is not aimed at survival, but is aimed at thriving. We have no interest in survival. We have interest in leadership and thriving, and so we're trying to build something that's very robust in both educational and economic terms. ++++++++++++++++++++++= [00:24:10] Tommy Thomas: Let's say that you had another one of these mega donors or foundations that came up to you and said they had a pretty large amount of money that they would give to you for your next big venture. Do you have a guess of what that might be or that might be classified? [00:24:28] Paul Maurer: I wouldn't say it's classified, I've got two or 300 million worth of those ventures because our vision is to become the school of choice for thoughtful evangelicals for the Southeast United States, the Premier Christ Center University for the Southeast United States. Combining academic rigor with biblical orthodoxy. We have a whole campus to build, to sustain the growth or to accommodate the growth that we envision. We'd like our traditional undergrad to be between 1,200. We're a little under 700 today, and our facilities are maxed out. We've been out of beds for five years. We've been renting beds from camps and conference centers for five years now, six years. We've got residence halls to build. We've got academic buildings to build. We've got athletic facilities to build. We've got the property. We just need the capital to build the campus. I need to build the endowment. We know that. We have to be able to fund scholarships beyond our discount rate, operational scholarships and we want to start things in surrounding cities around us. I'm looking to really become the college to be known and trusted as is the premier Christ Center University. Like in the city of Charlotte, which is two hours from us. It's far enough for the students, not too far for the parents and because we're the last Christ-centered four year college in the state of North Carolina, that's a footprint that we need to grow. So I literally have, Tommy, probably two, three, four hundred million worth of projects and we're ready to go with a good bit of that. We just need the cash to do that. [00:26:24] Tommy Thomas: I want to bring this part to a close before I switch over to board service. What's the main thing you wish somebody had told you earlier in your career? [00:26:34] Paul Maurer: Not to think more highly of myself than I ought, pride is a way of creeping in with leaders. It certainly did with me and my first presidency. This is my second presidency and my first presidency, honestly there was a part of me that thought they're lucky to have me. And I know that humility was not at the top of my value proposition. I don't think I was overbearing or narcissistic or anything but if you don't have humility as the top of your value proposition as a leader, and you allow yourself to drink some of the Kool-Aid that's going to have a bad effect. And honestly, probably someone probably did tell me that ahead of time, I'm not sure I had the ears to hear it or that I heard it, but I wish I'd have embraced that lesson earlier in my career than I did. [00:27:39] Tommy Thomas: If you were speaking next week to a group of incoming presidents from small liberal arts colleges around the United States, what would be the theme of your address? [00:27:51] Paul Maurer: I started my first presidency 13 or 14 years ago, and I remember going to the president's conferences and coming back after two or three of those, and I said to my cabinet, here's my takeaway, change or die. And then I was out of the presidency for a couple years. I began to go back to those meetings again. When I came to Montreat nine years ago, and I came back to my cabinet, I said, they've inserted the words fast change, faster, die. We've taken on the mindset of a startup. So we consider ourselves a 107 year old startup. We're not a turnaround. We're not maintainers, we're not traditionalists. We try to employ the principles of a startup, meaning we're creating something new. And so I think in the next five to 10 years, we're going to see a pretty dramatic change in the number of colleges and universities in the United States. The enrollment cliff is real. The declining birth rates are real. And it's going to have a really major impact on the number of schools that close. The most vulnerable schools are the state universities that are losing enrollment and not filling space. So I think in those cases, the state systems will do mergers. Privates aren't prone to mergers. And so I think we're going to see more closures of small privates unless the presidents of those institutions are creative and agile and willing to take risks and invest heavily in things that work and starve things that aren't, and end tenure and act more like a startup. Fail fast, make decisions with deliberation and speed. And I think to the degree that we're going to see success among the privates in particular, I think the presidents will embody some combination of those qualities. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Join us again next week as we continue this conversation with Paul Maurer. That episode will take a deep dive into Paul's experience in board service and governance. Links and Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas Montreat College Website The Miracle at Montreat Montreat College Facebook Montreat College Instagram Connect Tommy Thomas - tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Tommy's LinkedIn Profile Paul Maurer's LinkedIn Profile
In Matthew 7, Jesus speaks of not judging others, of not giving away what is holy to dogs, and of seeking and asking the Father for help. These three points, when taken together, create a powerful message about how we should live our lives. This is the passage of scripture that liberates the church from experts. It's not too hard to interpret, but it's challenging to truly apply and live it out. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? First, Jesus speaks of not judging others. He says, “Do not judge so that you may not be judged, for with the judgment you make, you will be judged, and the measure you give will be the measure you get” (Matthew 7:1-2). This is a reversal of our natural tendency – to be lax on ourselves and critical of others. But Jesus wants us to believe the best in others. This is a reminder to us all that we should not be so quick to judge others. We should be careful to not be hypocrites, and instead, look at our own flaws before we point out those of others. Second, Jesus speaks of not giving away what is holy to dogs. He says, “Do not give what is holy to dogs and do not throw your pearls before swine or they will trample them underfoot and turn and maul you” (Matthew 7:6). This is a reminder to us to be careful about how we share our faith with others. We should not be so quick to share our beliefs with those who may not understand or appreciate them. Finally, Jesus speaks of seeking and asking the Father for help. He says, “Ask and it will be given to you. Seek and you will find. Knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives” (Matthew 7:7-8). This is a reminder to us that we should not be afraid to ask for help. We should not be afraid to turn to the Lord for guidance and strength. WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR ME? 1. God wants to give good gifts, just full stop. When you come to Him in prayer, he wants to give you gifts. When you come to Him each day, He wants to give you gifts. Every day is ripe with the possibility of good gifts. What gifts is God giving you today? We often approach God as if I'm trying to get my act together. I'm trying to clean myself up. And God's saying, listen you love your children no matter what state they're in. Don't you think I love you so much more than that? 2. Are you loving others the way you want others to love you? The golden rule: in everything, do to others as you would have them do to you, for this is the law and the prophets. This might require some creativity. What do you want someone to do for you? And are you willing to do that thing? ABOUT RACHEL: Rev. Rachel Toone joined Montreat College in July 2018 as the Dean of Spiritual Formation. She holds a B.A. in Theology from Whitworth University, an MDiv. from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and she is currently enrolled in the Doctor of Ministry program at Trinity School for Ministry. Rev. Toone is an ordained teaching elder by the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. When she is not working, Rev. Toone enjoys traveling, hiking, and reading old books. RESOURCES: Nicole's Book: Help My Bible Is Alive! Ask Nicole a Bible study question: nicole@nicoleunice.com FOLLOW NICOLE: Website: https://nicoleunice.com/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nicoleuniceInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoleunice/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicole.unice/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
[00:00:00] Jerry White: Risk has to be uncertain categories. There's legal risk, there's financial risk, and then there's what I call uncontrolled risk of things you don't expect that the government may impose. What if they decide for our property at Glen Erie that it no longer is going be tax exempt? Or what if the state were to do that sort of thing? Those are risks over which we have no control. The risk on leveraged investments, I think, is quite important. For instance, you may propose to a larger organization a $3 million project, but the money is not in the bank. And you have four donors who said they'll fund it, but will they, and if they do, what voice should they have in it? That's a huge thing. Money given with strings attached is really quite risky. +++++++++++++++++++++ [00:01:02] Tommy Thomas: In this episode, we will conclude the conversation that we began with Jerry White in Episode 85. If you didn't hear that episode, Jerry White is the President Emeritus of The Navigators International. Prior to that he enjoyed a distinguished career in the United States Air Force, retiring as a two-star general. One of the reasons I wanted Jerry to be a guest is because of the depth of his nonprofit board service. Among the boards he has served include World Vision, The Navigators. Christian Leadership Alliance. The Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability. The Lausanne Committee on World Evangelization. The Air Force Association. Let's pick up the conversation where we were beginning to discuss board governance. Let's shift over to board service. How did your first board show up? [00:01:56] Jerry White: My first board that I served on was a small organization and besides a church board, every board is different. When I got into leading boards, like the Christian Leadership Alliance and being on boards like World Vision and leading The Navigator board the biggest thing is who you have on the board. And that they understand what their role is on the board. And my view is that they're not operational. They don't make operational decisions, and they give the CEO a clear path to glide on. And hold that person accountable. And on the board service, I found it extremely important to have people of varied backgrounds and competencies so that we weren't all monolithic and the board could not be a rubber stamp board, whatever the leader wants. Yeah, that's fine. Just go ahead and do it. But to take on true, what I call policy governance, and to realize that you aren't running it, but you're holding the CEO accountable for what they say they're going to do. And once in a while you have to intervene. [00:03:14] Tommy Thomas: You mentioned having the right people on the board. What is the secret sauce? [00:03:20] Jerry White: One secret sauce is you don't bring them on just because they've got money. That's probably the worst criteria you can have if people do not share the vision of that organization on whose board they serve. You don't want them on there. And if they happen to have wealth and are generous people, that's fine, but we don't own them. They have to be people who give more broadly. And before we bring someone on the board we have to first make sure for me, in the Christian world, to make sure that there are people of spiritual maturity. Not just people with a high reputation or lead a big church or are well known. I would not care if none of the people on my board were well known as long as they were people of high integrity and then have had some experience. We're always pushing for getting a younger generation of board members, but there's a limit to that. You have to be sure that they're really qualified as they come in. And then the next thing that I feel is extremely important is you train. You train them how to be a board member and what's expected of them as a board member. In a few weeks, I'll be going to Kenya with The Navigators and we'll be gathering the board chairman from all over the world for a time of interaction and sharing. That's a trickier one, by the way, when you become a board chair, is how to become a board chair, particularly in our developing world where things aren't quite westernized as much. Yeah. And what should a board really do? Because people have different experiences. It's different from a second board, a secondary board who has financial responsibility and is held accountable for the quantitative results of the organization. That's a whole different picture, a different kind of board. [00:05:40] Tommy Thomas: Let's go to the board chair. Give me some words and phrases that would describe the best board chair you've ever seen or served under. [00:05:48] Jerry White: I'll tell you, there are two board chairs that I think of. One was a man by the name of Clay Brown. He wasn't the board chair, because I was chairman at the time. But he was certainly the key senior statesman on our board. He was measured. He was wise. He had a strong business background, and he had a passion for what we did. Our current Board Chair for The Navigators is doing an absolutely remarkable job and he leads several companies but has really given himself to being Chairman of The Navigator US board. The other thing is that the Board Chairman cannot be a jack of all trades. In other words, they can't be chairman of five different boards at once. Because I don't think anybody who has another job has that kind of time. But in knowing that they bear a particular responsibility within that organization to draw together the board, the executive team or the executive committee, and to really help lead them and keep them in their track and their track being on the policy governance side. And so the board chairs, and when I've done a board, I hope I've done this, is to really be prepared. You do not do this on the backhand, walking into a board meeting and 10 minutes ahead of time asking the CEO – what's the agenda? [00:07:25] Tommy Thomas: Speaking about that working relationship, I know that's critical. Think back on your experience. How often does the Board Chair need to meet with his or her CEO? [00:07:35] Jerry White: First of all, they need to be friends, but I remember as a board member of a particular organization I wanted to be friends with the CEO and very much was. Then I became Board Chair and I said to him, our relationship is going to be a little different. I am your friend, but also, I'm accountable for the direction of the organization. And therefore, I'm going to be asking things of you that maybe I would not do if I was just a good buddy walking alongside and wanting to affirm you. So I think you need to be friends, but you'll also need to know that you have the responsibility for the policy direction of the organization and for the health and wellbeing of the CEO. [00:08:27] Tommy Thomas: Go to that board meeting for a minute. What's been your best experience and who sets the agenda for the Board Meeting? [00:08:32] Jerry White: For me, the Executive Committee needs to set the agenda. It needs to be proposed by the CEO because he knows the action items. And you've got certain performer things you've got to do on accountability of finances and income and disbursements and so forth and certain things on personnel. But I would want the CEO to come up with a list of what needs to be addressed, work with that CEO and perhaps the CFO to create an agenda with the Executive Committee that actually says how is this going to serve the work? And what are the decisions? And I have three ways of assessing an agenda for the Board Meeting. What is information? We don't have to make any decision on it. What is counsel? The CEO or somebody wants counsel on a particular item. What decision needs to be made? So, every topic in the board meeting, I like to write along the side, the margin, inform counsel, decide. [00:09:48] Tommy Thomas: From a functional point of view, they wouldn't necessarily be in any order. They just as they come up, they're one of those three. [00:09:58] Jerry White: No, it'd be one of the three. Your board meeting is usually divided into segments. The CEO Report The Field Ministry Report The CFO Report Then there's a legal report. There may be certain personnel decisions that need to be affirmed. And by the way, that could be another way you would put it to affirm a decision. That's a little weak. And so you would structure your meeting not according to what you're going to decide, but according to what topics need to be addressed in the 24 hours you have together. And by the way, to really require that homework be done on the part of the staff making the decisions that “read-aheads” are there. And the right people come to make reports inside the meetings. ++++++++++++++++++++ [00:10:51] Tommy Thomas: When somebody joins your board what does onboarding look like? [00:10:55] Jerry White: The onboarding looks for several organizations I've been working for two to three years with before they come on board, talking with them about it, seeing their interest, getting a biography, bringing it to what I would call the nomination committee of the board. And the good boards that I work with have a roster of people that they're talking to that's very confidential and some of them never come on the board. And then as they are approaching it, you may even ask someone to actually sit in on a board meeting. And to see whether or not it meets their expectations. That isn't always possible. But in one board that I'm on, we have some junior members on it. This is on a board where we have younger leaders who come and serve for two years, and they don't stay on the board, just to give them experience. But then when you're onboarding, every board annually at least, there needs to be, in my mind, an orientation for the board where you go over the history of the board, you go over things. So they're not just in a befuddled mystery at terminology and history. It's like being in a family joke and nobody knows what the story was behind it. They have things that are ongoing and they have no clue. We need to bring them up to speed, both emotionally, historically, and personally. And it doesn't need to be long. It's for maybe half a day. And I've done this in a secular organization too, insisting that no one come on the board who doesn't have some orientation, both as to what a board does and what a board has done. [00:12:55] Tommy Thomas: Do you do a meeting evaluation or how do you keep your meetings fresh? [00:13:00] Jerry White: Most boards do have a little evaluation afterward that they fill out. It's often, Tommy, their perfunctory and there of some limited value, the value mainly being that you asked, but I think the Chairman and the CEO, when they see things happening in the board, that afterwards they need to interact with them and saying, what do you think about it? How do you feel that board meeting went? And now that you've been in on X number of board meetings, say to tell me what you think and how can we help you be a better board member? Committee assignments are pretty important. Also, when I went on one board, it took me, Tommy, it took me two years to really figure out what was going on. And I served nine years and it was such a complex organization that it was really hard and took a lot of work to try and understand the dynamics behind this organization [00:14:08] Tommy Thomas: Let me ask you to respond to this quote. “You need a director on the board who will be a pleasant irritant. Someone who will force people to think a little differently. That's what a good board does.” [00:14:21] Jerry White: In one board that I'm on, we appoint someone at every board meeting to be what we call a responsible skeptic. And that person is designated ahead of time. And that person, their job in that board meeting is to be a bit skeptical. Now, I think you have to be a little careful about always having a person who's always skeptical. I don't think I want a board member who every time something comes up, they raise their eyebrow, and you wonder what they're thinking. I think everybody ought to be a little skeptical at some time. And the main thing is if they don't understand something they need to ask. In other words, they need to do it. I was in a board meeting recently where a particular decision was in the process. And two of us on the board, I was an emeritus to the board, and the other was on the board. And I could tell there was a bit of discomfort. And so the chair asked that other person, they hadn't said anything, what do you think? And came up with a pretty good counter. Now I haven't got real good hearing, so I couldn't hear what he said. And then the board chair said, Jerry, what do you think? And I was like a deer caught in the headlights. And I said I couldn't hear what he said. And I said, we said exactly the same thing. And what was moving down the road to be a crafted decision was put aside and not done. I'm very wary of creating board actions on the spot, a statement or whatever it may be. The best way is to say, would somebody take this and come up in three or four hours, take a coffee break and craft us a statement on what we're trying to do. So I do believe that the chair needs to be able to look in the eyeball all around the way and see if there are some questions or if someone has been particularly silent, I think you need to say what do you think? ++++++++++++++++ [00:16:34] Tommy Thomas: How do you draw that quiet board member out? Some people just don't speak up unless they have something to say, which is probably a good thing. But how do you draw the quiet person out? [00:16:46] Jerry White: I just say, Jack, what do you think about that? I say be very direct. I say, you've been listening to this discussion. Do you have anything to say? I don't want to force him to have to say something, but I say, this may be the expertise of the person that I'm asking. And I'll say Joan, your expertise is in this area, I know you've been through this before. What are we not hearing? What questions do you have? And that gives them freedom to speak out. And the other thing is I don't think people should speak out, particularly declaratively. That is, I believe this, and you got to do this. And I don't like that because that puts themselves on the table. But people learn to be able to share in a non-confrontive fashion. [00:17:44] Tommy Thomas: Let's go to financial accountability. You and I are old enough to remember the Enron scandal, and then if you've been paying any attention to the last two or three days, you've seen the Silicon Valley Bank go under. In both of those things, there was board culpability. Neither were nonprofit, but they will both board culpability. How do you get your boards to make sure you're addressing the financial aspect, a judiciary responsibility of the board? [00:18:10] Jerry White: It's a CEO's responsibility to make sure that the right questions are answered. And it's got to be more than just an audit. We want a clean audit. And you don't want to have to go to the bottom notes and say, here's something we should correct, but we need to guide the board through the financial realities of what we're doing. But at the end of it, I think you need to have a risk analysis that says, okay, where are we vulnerable? For instance, in our litigious society today, we have a lot of risk, and I think of ministries that have Christian camps and all the sexual liabilities and all of that. They are at risk all the time when you're working with minors and then I think people need to ask questions of the CFO and the auditor, where do you see us being at risk? What would happen if, what if happened? You have a September 11 or you have a Covid pandemic. And you have to say, our whole income stream is going to be jeopardized. And then I think you need to look and say, where are our major vulnerabilities for both expenditure as well as income? Now that's, it's very different in a Christian organization than it is a secular organization like an Enron or the banks or whatever it is. The fault there goes so that people don't ask questions, or that the actual realities have been hidden from it and just saying, oh, it'll be okay. ++++++++++++++++++= [00:19:56] Tommy Thomas: From your perspective, how does the board get involved in strategic planning? [00:20:02] Jerry White: Boy, that is a good question, Tommy. The question is, who does the strategic planning? Okay. Let's say that we're in a very small developing organization amid developing, and a large organization, they're very different and the very smallest organizations, the board may be highly engaged in the strategic plan because it's such a small organization and they're so fragile. As a general rule of thumb, the board may do strategic thinking, but strategic planning has to be on the part of the CEO and his or her staff. And the plan needs to be brought to the board for their interaction. And then approval. And that's particularly true with a large organization. The board can't do strategic planning. They can do some strategic planning for the board. That is, how should we develop our board? What expertise do we need? But as far as a ministry for most organizations, as large as the navigators or crew or some others, they aren't gonna know the details of what's going on out in the field or how they have to pretty well react and respond to the strategic planning initiatives that they may come up with. How many staff, what countries are we doing to go into? What are we not going to do? What are we gonna stop doing etc. So the board certainly needs to approve the strategic plan. Chances are, even when they do that, They won't know it very well. I'm just sorry that, when you're not, when you don't have to carry out a strategic plan, it's hard to really know it. [00:22:00] Tommy Thomas: The ones that created it, that have been involved in hammering it out, they're the ones that know it. [00:22:06] Jerry White: That's right. And then you have to, with every strategic plan, you have to set, have a set of outcomes and a set of risks, and then you have to say, how much is it going to cost to implement this? [00:22:22] Tommy Thomas: I think the risk thing, that could almost be a podcast in and of itself. I interviewed Dr. Sandra Gray, the President Emeritus at Asbury University and she was a former banker before she got into higher ed. And her thought was that nonprofit boards probably don't pay enough attention to the risk of the organization. [00:22:40] Jerry White: I think there's no question on that, especially risk has to be uncertain categories. There's legal risk, there's financial risk, and then there's what I call uncontrolled risk of things you don't expect that the government may impose. What if they decide for our property at Glen Erie that it no longer is going to be tax exempt? Or what if the state were to do that sort of thing? Those are risks over which we have no control and the risk on leveraged investments, I think is quite important. For instance, you may propose to a larger organization a $3 million project, but the money is not in the bank. And you have four donors who said they'll fund it, but will they, and if they do, what voice should they have in it? That's a huge thing. Money given with strings on it is really quite risky. [00:23:46] Tommy Thomas: Hadn't thought of that. [00:23:46] Jerry White: And I've served on the board of the ECFA and they're very good at this. In terms of helping people think through risk and failure and financial accountability. [00:24:01] Tommy Thomas: Let's look at the CEO evaluation. I know you've been involved in a number of those, and you've been evaluated as a CEO. What are some takeaways? [00:24:10] Jerry White: You must be evaluated. Now we have a number of kinds of evaluations. You have a 360 evaluation, and some people are very skilled at that. It's very threatening to some CEOs, but it's necessary. I feel that there needs to be an evaluation within the organization, I had one. I had someone who evaluated me every year and they had the freedom, and they did call my wife, call my kids, talked to my coworkers, my peers, talked to those who worked for me, gave a free reign to ask certain questions. The questions need to be carefully thought through. They can't be so invasive. But the evaluation is of several levels. One is certain on a moral personal level. I do not think a committee can do that. Every CEO needs to have the kind of people in their lives who will blow the whistle on them if they say anything wrong. And the small Executive Committee needs to be aware of how that could happen. The second in terms of an evaluation is performance against set out goals. The third is relational. How's their team going? What do they think? What are the issues? And to give the feedback to the CEO and I think to give it privately and then in the board, and we do this to give a summary analysis, but the board should not be privy to the detailed questions. It's a really touchy process. And the evaluation needs to be, not be a pass fail, but Loren Sanny taught me it should be a progress review. How are you making progress toward the things that you have said you want to do? [00:26:15] Tommy Thomas: Let me close with a question that I ask often, particularly to people that have been on boards a long time as you have. How has board service changed over the last decade? [00:26:25] Jerry White: I'm not sure about the last decade, but certainly over the last two decades the area of risk and financial accountability has increased tremendously. The litigiousness of our society has made a tremendous impact on how a board functions. So those two things, the financial accountability and the potential lawsuits and things of that nature. Tommy, I don't know that I can make a generalist statement about how boards have changed, but I can say that through the last 20 to 30 years, the boards have become more important and more vital to our organization's future than they were a number of years ago. Many years ago, even in The Navigators, the board was a cheering section for Dawson Trotman and Lawrence Annie. Go get 'em and thanks for letting us know what's going on. To a point where we had to be accountable for the finances. 911 changed everything, by the way, particularly for anyone operating internationally. When you're sending money across international boundaries, you have a whole different level of accountability financially imposed by the government. And I'm speaking only from the viewpoint of the United States, and you get into all these other countries with all different kinds of demands and requirements and corruption and what have you. The boards have become far more important to the organization's health. And I think the public has a right to know who's on your board. And when I look at an organization as I've done even the last few days, and I look through who the board members are, it isn't that I need to know them, but that they're there as real people with real names that if one needed to, you could connect with them. ++++++++++++++++++++++ I hope you enjoyed this conversation with Jerry White. If you're ever at a conference where Jerry is speaking or leading a breakout session, make sure you attend those sessions. We all have so much to learn from Jerry White. Our guest next week is Paul Mauer. Paul is the president of Montreat College. When Paul was selected to be the President of Montreat, the college wasn't very far from closing its doors. What has happened at Montreat over the past nine years is nothing short of miraculous. [00:29:06] Paul Maurer: I started my first presidency 13 or 14 years ago, and I remember going to the president's conferences and coming back after two or three of those, and I said to my cabinet, here's my takeaway, change or die. And then I was out of the presidency for a couple years. I began to go back to those meetings again. When I came to Montreat nine years ago, I came back to my cabinet, I said, they've inserted the words fast change, faster, die. We've taken on the mindset of a startup. So, we consider ourselves a 107-year-old startup. We're not a turnaround. We're not maintainers. We're not traditionalists. We try to employ the principles of a startup, meaning we're creating something new. And so, I think in the next five to ten years, we're going to see a pretty dramatic change in the number of colleges and universities in the United States. The enrollment cliff is real. The declining birth rates are real. And it's going to have a really major impact on the number of schools that close. Links and Resources JobfitMatters Website Next Gen Nonprofit Leadership with Tommy Thomas The Navigators Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability Christian Leadership Alliance Connect Tommy Thomas - tthomas@jobfitmatters.com Tommy's LinkedIn Profile Jerry White's LinkedIn Profile
Jesus consistently shows us the importance of authenticity. And not in a cheap social media way; he wants the person on the inside to match the person on the outside. He wants your prayer life, your generosity, your spiritual disciplines, everything to be consistent inside and out. In this section of the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus speaks to what is one of the most defining and important habits and practices, which is how we deal with money and how we deal with our anxieties, two closely related things. WHAT'S THE BACKSTORY? Matthew 6:22-23 might throw you off simply because that's he's using a Jewish expression. He's talking about how the eyes are the lamp of the body. If your eye is good, your whole body will be full of light. And if it's unhealthy or dark, you'll be body will be full of darkness. In this kind of Jewish idiom, a good eye meant you were generous, and a bad eye meant you were stingy. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? Jesus links money and anxiety. How we spend money shows what we do and do not trust. We have more but are less happy than ever before. Nothing is more anxiety-producing than trying to put your identity in external things that you cannot control. Jesus addresses this issue in his teachings on money and anxiety, calling us to focus on internal factors like connection and belonging, rather than external validation. Ultimately, dealing with money and anxiety is a heart issue, and we need to address the underlying causes of our anxiety to find true security and happiness. WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR ME? What are your “What shall we's”? Our need for security and validation can only be met by God. He is the only one who can truly provide us with a sense of peace and assurance. Jesus tells us to “seek first his kingdom and his righteousness” (Matthew 6:33). In doing so, we will be directing our energy towards what is most important—our spiritual growth and investing in the kingdom of God. We can trust that God will provide all we need. God cares about us and our needs. He knows what we need and He is eager to provide it. We can trust Him to take care of us and provide for us. This is why Jesus tells us not to worry, but to put our trust in God. He will provide all we need. What promises of God do you need to cling to? The Bible is full of reminders of God's care and provision – which do you need to cling to? In the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus said, “Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.” This is a reminder that even if we feel like we can't do something, God is with us and will provide. In Romans, we are reminded that “there is no condemnation in Christ Jesus.” This is a reminder that God loves us and will never leave us. In 1 John, we are reminded that “perfect love drives out fear.” This is a reminder that God's love is perfect, and He will always be with us. Consider the birds and the lilies. When we look around us, we can see God's care in action. He has provided us with the beauty of nature and the wonders of the world. He has created a world full of life and beauty, and He has provided us with the means to enjoy it. We can take time to appreciate the beauty of nature and the wonders of the world, and to remember that God cares for us and provides for us. ABOUT RACHEL: Rev. Rachel Toone joined Montreat College in July 2018 as the Dean of Spiritual Formation. She holds a B.A. in Theology from Whitworth University, an MDiv. from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and she is currently enrolled in the Doctor of Ministry program at Trinity School for Ministry. Rev. Toone is an ordained teaching elder by the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. When she is not working, Rev. Toone enjoys traveling, hiking, and reading old books. RESOURCES: Nicole's Book: Help My Bible Is Alive! Ask Nicole a Bible study question: nicole@nicoleunice.com FOLLOW NICOLE: Website: https://nicoleunice.com/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nicoleuniceInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoleunice/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicole.unice/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Context: This is King Jesus' Inaugural address. He starts with who belongs in the kingdom of God and builds on that to describe what those people are like on the outside (salt and light) and on the inside. Now, Jesus turns up the temperature – this is some of the hardest ethical teachings in world history. WHAT DOES IT SAY? “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.” – Jesus means not only everything already spoken in the OT law, but also what he is about to discuss. Cf Galatians 3:24-26 24 So the law was our guardian until Christ came that we might be justified by faith. 25 Now that this faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian. 26 So in Christ Jesus you are all children of God through faith… “Until everything is accomplished” – cf Matthew 24:34: 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? What's the role of the OT in the lives of Jesus' followers? We read ALL of Scripture through Jesus. He is the hermeneutical key – he is the one through whom we interpret the Bible through. God is consistent. What God desires for flourishing in the OT is the same in the NT. Jesus is fully interpreting the law, not changing it. WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR ME? Read the OT! You will understand Jesus and your faith in new ways through it! Jesus raises the bar on how precious humanity is. ABOUT RACHEL: Rev. Rachel Toone joined Montreat College in July 2018 as the Dean of Spiritual Formation. She holds a B.A. in Theology from Whitworth University, an MDiv. from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and she is currently enrolled in the Doctor of Ministry program at Trinity School for Ministry. Rev. Toone is an ordained teaching elder by the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. When she is not working, Rev. Toone enjoys traveling, hiking, and reading old books. RESOURCES: Nicole's Book: Help My Bible Is Alive! Ask Nicole a Bible study question: nicole@nicoleunice.com FOLLOW NICOLE: Website: https://nicoleunice.com/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nicoleuniceInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoleunice/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicole.unice/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Salt and Light make everything better. Do you make every room better that you come into? Want more from Nicole? Sign up for Nicole's free newsletter: nicoleunice.com/realtalk WHAT DOES IT SAY? Matthew 5:13-16: 13 “You are the salt of the earth. But if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It is no longer good for anything, except to be thrown out and trampled underfoot. 14 “You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead, they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. Properties of Salt and Light: Two normal things that most people like and have around them. Specific Properties of Salt: A mineral that our bodies need. Makes bland food good. It amplifies all other flavors around it Specific Properties of Light: Illuminates what is around you. You're not looking at the light, you're looking at what the light is shining on. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? Questions to ask the text: What Does it Mean That God's People Are Salt and Light? We are useful in the kingdom of God. “You are the Light of the World” Cf John 8:12 – Jesus says he is the light of the world. We are called to be like Jesus! WHAT DOES IT MEAN FOR ME? Questions to Self-Examine Yourself With: How does the world experience you? How do you show up in a room? Are you making your environment better? The motive is NOT “I've got to level up, I've got to be better” – the call is “Man, look what God has done, I want to opt into that.” Lord, help us be aware of what it means to be a citizen in the kingdom of Heaven. ABOUT RACHEL: Rev. Rachel Toone joined Montreat College in July 2018 as the Dean of Spiritual Formation. She holds a B.A. in Theology from Whitworth University, an MDiv. from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and she is currently enrolled in the Doctor of Ministry program at Trinity School for Ministry. Rev. Toone is an ordained teaching elder by the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. When she is not working, Rev. Toone enjoys traveling, hiking, and reading old books. RESOURCES: Nicole's Book: Help My Bible Is Alive! Ask Nicole a Bible study question: nicole@nicoleunice.com FOLLOW NICOLE: Website: https://nicoleunice.com/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nicoleuniceInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoleunice/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicole.unice/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
This week, Nicole and her friend Rev. Rachel dive into Matthew 5 together and discuss the implications of the greatest sermon ever told. For now, the invitation is just to read the Sermon of the Mount. Let it sit with you. Don't worry about perfect understanding. Over the coming weeks, we will dive deep and unlock interpretation and application. Want more from Nicole? Sign up for Nicole's free newsletter: nicoleunice.com/realtalk WHAT IS THE BACKSTORY? Let's set the context for the sermon of the mount. What happens right before chapter 5? (How to Study the Bible Tip) When you don't understand a phrase in scripture, often you can use cross references to get a better sense of what is going on. Matthew 4:23: “Jesus went throughout Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, proclaiming the good news of the kingdom, and healing every disease and sickness among the people. Jesus is sharing the good news of the kingdom, and how you access that kingdom. He is embodying it before he explains it. He is reversing everything that sin and death have done by going into these villages and healing the sick. He is giving people back whole life in this action, and then he switches to teaching about what full life looks like in him. Matthew is writing to Jews. He is building directly on important Old Testament references. The cross-references will help you interpret Matthew correctly! The listeners would have made connections between what Jesus was preaching and their knowledge of Moses' law and the themes of the Prophets. The first words out of his mouth would have alluded to the Psalms. So the whole of the Old Testament – the Law, the Prophets and the Wisdom writings – are all packed in. Read Psalm 1 as a key connection to what it means to be blessed in the kingdom of God. WHAT DOES IT MEAN? Blessed – clearly, blessed means something different here than it does in our current, Instagram hashtag way of describing it. In Psalm 1, the Hebrew word for blessed means going the right way. We are blessed when we are going the right direction into the kingdom of God. Jesus reframes what it means to go the right way. The grace and sweetness of Jesus' assurance: Jesus' calling is pointing to an attitude of the heart more than an action step. WHAT DOES THIS MEAN FOR ME? The invitation of the beatitudes: don't turn away from God when you're weary, worn and broken. We want to avoid the disposition of desperation, but that is where Jesus meets us. ABOUT RACHEL: Rev. Rachel Toone joined Montreat College in July 2018 as the Dean of Spiritual Formation. She holds a B.A. in Theology from Whitworth University, an MDiv. from Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary, and she is currently enrolled in the Doctor of Ministry program at Trinity School for Ministry. Rev. Toone is an ordained teaching elder by the Evangelical Presbyterian Church. When she is not working, Rev. Toone enjoys traveling, hiking, and reading old books. RESOURCES: Nicole's Book: Help My Bible Is Alive! Ask Nicole a Bible study question: nicole@nicoleunice.com FOLLOW NICOLE: Website: https://nicoleunice.com/YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/nicoleuniceInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/nicoleunice/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nicole.unice/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Dr. Sarah Waters spoke on “Sacrifice in The Lord of the Rings” at the Inklings Weekend in Montreat on April 2, 2023. The theme of the weekend was “The Legacy of J.R.R. Tolkien Fifty Years After His Death.” Inkling Weekend in Montreat is an annual event in Montreat, NC at Montreat College hosted by Drs. Hal Poe and Don King. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Watch the VIDEO of the Talk: Visit Sarah Waters' Academia Page https://buckingham.academia.edu/SarahWaters Contact Sarah via email: sarah.waters (at) buckingham.ac.uk Other Posts/Shows with Sarah Waters: https://essentialcslewis.com/?s=Sarah+Waters [PODCAST] Essay Chat #20 – Hamlet: The Prince or the Poem? (Sarah Waters) https://essentialcslewis.com/2020/11/14/podcast-essay-chat-20-hamlet-the-prince-or-the-poem-sarah-waters/ Inklings Fellowship Website https://www.uu.edu/societies/inklings/ OTHER TOLKIEN-RELATED LINKS: Discussion of Tolkien Biopic (Glyer and Dickieson) https://allaboutjack.podbean.com/e/discussion-of-tolkien-biopic-glyer-and-dickieson/ Writing Tips from Lewis and Tolkien (King and Poe) https://allaboutjack.podbean.com/e/writing-tips-from-lewis-and-tolkien-king-and-poe/ Colin Duriez – Tolkien in Wartime https://youtu.be/yKbszxMsN4c All About Jack Podcast: https://allaboutjack.podbean.com/ Essential C.S. Lewis website: https://essentialcslewis.com/ THE MISQUOTABLE C.S. LEWIS. https://amzn.to/2IUTJBr C.S. Lewis Goes to Hell https://amzn.to/2BfStXh
Christ-Centered Higher Education Steve talks to Dr. Paul Maurer who is president of Montreat College in North Carolina. They talk about college and cybersecurity. Our goal is to apply Biblical Truth to the big issues of the day and to spread the Good News of the Gospel to as many people as possible through the airwaves as well as digitally. This mission, like others, requires funding. So, if you feel led to help support this effort, you can make a tax-deductible donation online HERE. Thank You!
On this episode of Anchored, Jeremy and CLT's Director of Homeschool Partnerships Kimberly Farley are joined by Dr. Paul Maurer, President of Montreat College in Montreat, NC. They discuss President Maurer's academic interests, the mission of Montreat College, and his work to strengthen the institution's Christ-centered identity. They also discuss Montreat's COMPASS Summer Program for high school students interested in various fields of study at Montreat.
Dan and Stephanie set this podcast up with their podcast on Jan 2nd. You will want to review this podcast before you hear today's podcast on escaping enemy mode.NDCC's are easily dragged into enemy mode- simple enemy mode, stupid enemy mode and intellectual enemy mode. Our brains can unite or divide us. Join us for this discuss with Dr. Jim Wilder.You will want to go back and hear our podcast "Are you in your right mind?" which sets the stage for this conversation.Today we will talk about how those on the autism spectrum due to neurological wiring are more easily dragged into enemy mode. BUT we will also talk about JOY and how to to escape enemy mode to refriend and rebuild attachment/joy.About Dr. Wilder:Dr. Jim Wilder has been training leaders and counselors for over 30 years on five continents. Jim grew up in South America and is bilingual (English/Spanish). He is the author of nineteen books with a strong focus on maturity and relational skills. Dr. Wilder has served as a guest lecturer at Fuller Seminary, Biola, Talbot Seminary, Point Loma University, Montreat College, Tyndale Seminary and elsewhere.Dr. Jim Wilder has extensive clinical counseling experience and is the chief neurotheologian of Life Model Works, a nonprofit working at the intersection of theology and brain science. Life Model Works builds on the fifty-year legacy of Shepherd's House, which began in the 1970s as a ministry to street kids in Van Nuys, California.In those early days, Jim worked with the team of volunteer counselors and Fuller Seminary faculty to build a counseling center to help broken people recover from negative habits, addictions, abuse, and trauma. By the 1990s, Jim was Assistant Director and later Executive Director of Shepherd's House, helping hundreds of pastors and churches with their toughest counseling cases.Jim was intimately involved in 1987 when Shepherd's House conducted a careful review of why some people with the same level of trauma and treatment recovered but others did not. The results of this case-by-case study became The Life Model, a new recovery model. The Life Model study findings were published in Living from the Heart Jesus Gave You.
In this episode, Dr. Jim Wilder discusses topics and themes from his latest book Escaping Enemy Mode. It's an important discussion as we live in a world of increasing us vs. them mentality. Listen in and get inspired to refriend others and live a life with joy and attachment to God. Dr. Jim Wilder has been training leaders and counselors for over 30 years on five continents. Jim grew up in South America and is bilingual (English/Spanish). He is the author of nineteen books with a strong focus on maturity and relational skills. His coauthored book, Living from the Heart Jesus Gave You, has sold over 100,000 copies and is printed in eleven languages. Wilder has published numerous articles and developed four sets of video and relational leadership training. Dr. Wilder has served as a guest lecturer at Fuller Seminary, Biola, Talbot Seminary, Point Loma University, Montreat College, Tyndale Seminary and elsewhere.Dr. Jim Wilder has extensive clinical counseling experience and is the chief neurotheologian of Life Model Works, a nonprofit working at the intersection of theology and brain science. Life Model Works builds on the fifty-year legacy of Shepherd's House, which began in the 1970s as a ministry to street kids in Van Nuys, California. In those early days, Jim worked with the team of volunteer counselors and Fuller Seminary faculty to build a counseling center to help broken people recover from negative habits, addictions, abuse, and trauma. By the 1990s, Jim was Assistant Director and later Executive Director of Shepherd's House, helping hundreds of pastors and churches with their toughest counseling cases.Jim's Recommendations:Becoming a Face of Grace by Ed KhouriBeyond Becoming by Ed KhouriConnect with Joshua: jjohnson@allnations.usGo to www.shiftingculturepodcast.com to interact and donate. Every donation helps to produce more podcasts for you to enjoy.Follow on Facebook or Instagram at www.facebook.com/shiftingculturepodcasthttps://www.instagram.com/shiftingculturepodcast/ Support the show
With the increase in both personal and national security threats, cybersecurity has become a major cause of concern in our culture. Paul J. Maurer, president of Montreat College, join us to help us better understand this issue and what we can do to protect our data.
Interview with Blake Lattimore of Montreat College.
With the increase in both personal and national security threats, cybersecurity has become a major cause of concern in our culture. Moreso, the need for qualified, ethical workers to fight these threats is at an all time high. Paul J. Maurer, president of Montreat College, has been equipping his students to do just that. Through their cybersecurity program, Montreat aims to train their students with a technical, ethical, and moral framework necessary to become trusted leaders in the cybersecurity field. Paul will join us to help us better understand this issue and what we can do to protect our data. Watch this talk on Q Media. Start your free trial at qideas.org/trial
In the fields outside a small Pennsylvania town, two massive armies waged the bloodiest battle of the Civil War. Montreat College historian, Dr. William Forstchen, discusses how it unfolded. Get exclusive content here!: https://thepetekalinershow.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Best-selling author, historian, and Montreat College professor, Dr. William Forstchen discusses says arming and training teachers who volunteer is an obvious step that can be taken to protect kids in schools. Plus, a look at gun crime in Charlotte. Get exclusive content here!: https://thepetekalinershow.com/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Hello everyone and welcome to Episode Sixty Four! I hope all of you remain safe and healthy out there as we roll into June. First up I want to give a shoutout to the Minnesota Herpetological Society for inviting me to speak at their first in-person meeting since pre-Covid. I made a rocket run up to Minneapolis St. Paul on Friday and back on Saturday, and I talked about The Field Herping Guide, the Pingleton/Holbrook collaboration project, and also, this show and how it got started. It's a great herp society and they once again made me feel welcome, so thanks again to all the folks in the MHS. As always, I want to thank all of the patrons of the show – we would not be kicking off a third season without you and I appreciate your support. To others in the listening audience, if you like the show, please consider supporting it via the So Much Pingle Patreon page. You can also support the show via one-time contributions via PayPal or Venmo (please contact me via email to somuchpingle@gmail.com). HERPETOLOGY SUMMER CAMP! Coming up this summer! Through their Compass Summer Experience program, Montreat College is hosting their annual Herpetology Summer Camp for high school students, from June 19th thru the 24th, with an option for an additional week thru July 1st. The camp is hosted by Professor Josh Holbrook, and students will experience amphibians and reptiles through a blend of classroom and field sessions. For more information and to register, see the Herpetology Summer Experience page. This week's show is a discussion of a recent field herping trip to Greece, Hungary, and Slovenia. I set up a microphone in our AirBNB suite at the end of the trip, in order to get everyone's impressions of the trip. Special thanks to John Burris, Matt Cage, Bryan Hughes, Pat Kain, Chris MacDonald, Jeff Martineau, Erik McCormick, Anniek Tump, Gerrit Verspui, and Tim Warfel. And thanks for listening everyone! And as always, please keep the comments and suggestions coming, and please take time to rate the show on your podcast platform! The show email is somuchpingle@gmail.com, and there's also a So Much Pingle group on Facebook, for discussion, comments, feedback, suggestions, herp confessions, herping tips for the Acropolis, tips for herping better, etc. Cheers! Mike
© 2020-2025 Ivy Podcast Discovery LLC
