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The best way to learn something is by doing, which is a lesson that Thomas Lotrecchiano's father taught him early on. Thomas and his father started Omigo together in 2018 as an alternate route to Thomas going to school for an MBA, and in the years since, that lesson keeps cropping up. Omigo is a DTC bidet company, and like many industry disruptors, its biggest challenge is educating the consumer base and converting skeptics into loyal customers. On this episode of Up Next in Commerce, Thomas explains how they have done exactly that by blending humor and educational content, building an infrastructure that allows them to ride the changing tides of demand, and by betting big on TV moving forward. Plus, Thomas shares some of the lessons he has learned from his father, who is an ecommerce gamechanger in his own right, having grown a small online business from a modest five employees to 250 in the early days of the industry.. Enjoy this episode! Main Takeaways:How Long Will It Take?: Getting consumers to adopt a new product, especially an intimate one, requires a great deal of education, patience, and listening. Just because your product works flawlessly and it has certain innate benefits doesn't mean that it will immediately be a hit. You have to invest in educating the consumer base and then listening to and incorporating their feedback into your products and messaging.Don't Overlook the Obvious: It's easy to fall in love with your product and spend time and money selling its unique features, but what actually makes people convert is if you can show them how to use it, how to install it, and lastly the value that can be derived from it. Those are the conversion areas that you should be laser-focused on, and highlighting any of the superfluous features can come later.Basic Building Blocks: There are three fundamental elements that DTC businesses need to start with before getting their company off the ground. They are: customer service, fulfillment, and a functioning, lead-generating website that has the ability to scale. Without these building blocks, your company is not ready to scale.For an in-depth look at this episode, check out the full transcript below. Quotes have been edited for clarity and length.---Up Next in Commerce is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. Respond quickly to changing customer needs with flexible Ecommerce connected to marketing, sales, and service. Deliver intelligent commerce experiences your customers can trust, across every channel. Together, we're ready for what's next in commerce. Learn more at salesforce.com/commerce---Transcript:Stephanie:Hey, everyone, and welcome back to Up Next in Commerce. This is your host, Stephanie Postles, co-founder and CEO at Mission.org. Today on the show, we have Thomas Lotrecchiano, the co-founder of Omigo. How's it going, Thomas?Thomas:It is great. You nailed the last name. Perfect.Stephanie:Yes. I'm so happy. I was looking at that like, "Oh, can I do this one?" So many tricky names on this show, but I'm like a 50/50 shot at getting them right, so it's all right. So I'd love to hear a bit about Omigo. I saw it's a bidet company, which was very exciting to me, surprisingly, because I've been to Japan before, and I remember entering the airport and going into one of the stalls, and it closed and music started playing. They had this beautiful toilet. I couldn't hear anything. I was in my own little spaceship. And the toilet was obviously a great bidet, and so I'm very excited about the world of bidets, but I want to hear a bit about how you guys even got into this.Thomas:I love hearing about people's first bidet stories, and they're always so different. A lot of people talk about Japan. Some people talk about [inaudible] or having to use their hand, or bum guns in Southeast Asia, or the traditional ones in Italy, and not having any clue how to use them. Bidets, bidets. So it started when my dad rented a new apartment in Raleigh, North Carolina, and they had an electric bidet seat there, and it was just like the ones that we're selling now. Very similar. So it was his first bidet experience, besides the ancient extra fixtures you see in European bathrooms that you might want to wash your feet in.Thomas:And he didn't use it for a month. Wouldn't touch it. My mom loved it immediately. And so, after some time, he warmed up and he sat down, used it. Basically, I like to imagine an epiphany where he sat down and some angelic music played and lights lit up around him and his life was changed forever. He wouldn't stop talking about it. I had been exposed to bidets in Southeast Asia. A little bit different than what we're selling now. But that's how both of us kind of got our start with a bidet, but the company came from when my dad just would not stop talking about these Japanese toilet seats every family gathering, whenever I was with him, I lived in the same city as him, and it just wouldn't wouldn't end.Stephanie:Yeah. Yep. Once you get that experience, I feel like it's hard to go back. I know when I worked at the main campus at Google, they were everywhere, in every bathroom. And to me, that's such a foreign concept, but there's so many different people there, that was just part of the norm. And I would always have friends come and visit me and family come on campus, and after just me being like, "Go try it. Don't be scared. You're going to love it," it's like it was a conversation for the entire week afterwards. So it was very life-changing. I mean, what's interesting, too, about your guys' company is that you co-founded it with your dad. Which I think is a very fun story and I want to hear a bit about that, because I see he has a big background in ecommerce, as well, and had a company that went from 5 to 250 employees, which you were working at as a teenager. So I'd love to hear a bit of the background there and what it's like working with your dad.Thomas:Yeah, absolutely. Super accomplished guy. Really happy to be working with him now. So just kind of how he and I got started, I'll fast forward to. There was a time where I was choosing a career path after I had done two years of service in AmeriCorps, which is a nonprofit, national organization: NCCC. And we had known we'd always wanted to work together. We're very similar people and we get along. We have a lot of the same thought processes. And so, it came a time where this bidet epiphany had happened, and he said, "Hey, I know that you're thinking about going to school for an MBA. Instead of getting an MBA, we're going to start this business together. You're going to learn more. You're going to actually get paid instead of paying. And it's going to start a new career for you." And I was game-Stephanie:Smart dad.Thomas:Right? Very smart dad. I trusted him, I believed what he was saying, and I knew from all of those years' experience, like you mentioned, that I was going to learn a ton. And so, the business that you referred to that he took from five to... I forget how many hundreds of employees, was called Canvas On Demand. And so, it is a digital or physical image-to-canvas art company, and when he started it, you only really found that in Walgreens. And so, he took it to the ecommerce space, which was... In 2005, selling stuff online was weird. It wasn't huge yet. You were still going to the store, picking things up. But I want to reel back just a little bit more. He started Art.com. He purchased the Art.com domain-Stephanie:Domain?Thomas:And started selling... Yeah, selling posters in 2001 with a different company. And that kind of set him on this online trajectory. Then, he launched into this Canvas On Demand company, which yes, I worked at as a teenager every summer, every holiday, I was probably the eighth employee, technically. From the beginning, I've been working with my dad, and I've definitely watched him run his companies and I've admired what he's done from afar and up close for years now, so it's great to work with him.Stephanie:Yeah. Very cool. So what does the separation of roles look like for what your dad does and when he's like, "And this is for you to run on your own"?Thomas:Yeah, so I would say that my dad is the big picture guy. He is really good at thinking outside the box, pushing the brand, and making sure that everything is in the right place, and then my job is running the day-to-day. So running the store, managing all of our agencies and merchants, and working on [inaudible]. And I'm really in the day-to-day of Omigo.Stephanie:Cool. And how challenging has it been to bring this product to the US, sell people on the benefits? How do you even approach that marketing? Because I feel like unless you've really tried it, it's pretty hard to convince someone who's never even thought about it to be sold on a product like that. So how do you think about introducing people to this kind of new product? At least in the US still feels kind of new.Thomas:Yeah, it's shocking. I still have to convince my friends to try it. I run a bidet brand and it's still work to get people that know and trust me to sit down and wash their butts. Washing your butt is such a foreign concept here and it is maddening, because, like you said, once you try it, it's almost impossible to go back. You have to get some sort of bidet in your home. And we knew it was going to be a challenge, but we know that that fact I just stated, once you try it, you'll never go back, and it's such a better way, cleaner way to go to the bathroom, that it's just a matter of time before it catches on in the United States.Stephanie:But it's been a long time. That's my thing. These have been around for [inaudible]. How much more time do we need? What kind of [inaudible] are you going to get yourself out there? What kind of marketing are you going to use? Are you going to pull a Poo-Pourri and really go hard with the unicorn type of stuff? Or how are you guys thinking about educating and selling this idea?Thomas:Yeah. Well, you need multiple people in the space to start disrupting and pushing this kind of taboo idea in people's faces, and what we've done is we took an educational approach. No one knows what Japanese bidet toilet seats are, and so we have this awesome product that does all these great things, makes you feel amazing, super easy to install, and that's the tactic that we went with was letting people know that it's not intimidating. So we use plain language to describe the installation. We let you know exactly how it functions. And then, along the way, we're using a little bit of humor and that expressive "how it makes you feel" experience, and try to get that across in our visual and audio cues.Stephanie:Yeah. And what kind of formats have you seen do best? Where you're like, "Oh, this one video that centered around humor did better than a pure educational one." What are you seeing connect with people, especially in the marketing campaigns that you're running?Thomas:Yeah. So humor has been a big one for us. We have one called "Bidet, Mate," and it's an Australian man and he talks about if you stepped in a lot of dingo dung, you wouldn't wipe it off, you'd wash it. So use a little bit of humor there, but he's also explaining exactly how this great product works, so it breaks down that wall of, "This is gross. I'm not talking about poop. But poop is funny, so let's make jokes about it." And then it says, "Okay, we're here. We're talking about it. Now, look at this awesome thing. Toilet paper is disgusting. You're reaching down and you're wiping yourself, so why don't you wash instead?" And so, [crosstalk] a good one. And an accent.Stephanie:Any accents you can get into marketing I feel like will probably have a good ROI. I don't know. Don't measure me on that, but it seems like it would. All right, so you're using humor. I sometimes feel like humor can go both ways though. You've got one side that can work really well, like I was saying, like Poo-Pourri and then the Harmon Brothers do a bunch of ad campaigns all around humor and a lot of them have done really well. But then, it also seems like it can be like a short blip of people are excited about the Squatty Potty, and then it's like, "Is anyone still using that thing? What happened to it?" So how are you approaching that balance between funny but then also, "This is something that you're going to keep for a long time"?Thomas:Yeah. So humor's a great attention-grabber. So I make you laugh. It's a little bit funny. You're interested in the product, and then we also have educational, but kind of... So I'll say I am in a video with my dad on YouTube and it is called, "Our Founder Spot and Why We Founded Omigo," and it tells you basically this story, and then, it lets us explain the product without being funny. And we think it's approachable and educational and real, coming from real people, not actors, and that seems to do extremely well combined with that humor. So I agree. It could definitely be flash in the pan and we've done funny stuff that hasn't worked, but on that front end, getting people's attention, humor does seem to work really well for bidets, specifically.Stephanie:Yeah, and I think that authenticity is definitely key, especially around a product that people don't really understand. And yeah, I'm even thinking, how do you guys lean into maybe user-generated content? Which to me, if you see someone using it that is like you, you're like instantly, "I'll probably give it a try, because you're like me and if you like it, I probably would, too." But for something like this, are your customers even willing to talk about it and get the word out there and help spread the message?Thomas:Yeah, so we have seen a steady increase in our post-purchase survey for friends and family, word of mouth. And that's exactly where it comes from: people that you trust talking about such an intimate topic. So UGC isn't always something that I'm going to be showing on my website, because it's true, I'm not going to be able to get the everyday consumer to send me a video while they're on their bidet, talking about how awesome it is. But when we do use that approach, it's been in the influencer space. A lot of people look at influencers as people they trust, guides in their lives, people they aspire to live like. Whether you agree or disagree with how people portray themselves on Instagram or social media, it's still a place for aspirational content and to look at people and see what they're doing. And we've seen some very good traction there, utilizing that influencer content elsewhere on our marketing channels.Stephanie:Mm-hmm (affirmative). What platforms are you working with alongside these influencers?Thomas:Yeah, so they post on Instagram and then we use whitelisting on Facebook and Instagram.Stephanie:Got it. Okay. And then, what are the results for that when it comes to conversions, and what does that funnel look like versus maybe just a typical ad out in the world or on YouTube, maybe running it against your video with your dad, like a very authentic company story. How do those two perform side-by-side?Thomas:Yeah. So we typically don't run those side-by-side or A/B test them. We kind of keep them separate. The best thing about whitelisting... Are you familiar with the concept?Stephanie:Yeah. Go into the detail, because I'm not...Thomas:Yeah, sure. So whitelisting content is working with an influencer where you get them to create some awesome content around your brand. You guide them and let them do their own thing, but then you technically have access to their account, and from there-Stephanie:Oh, got it. Yeah.Thomas:Yeah, you can use their audience and create a lookalike from it on Facebook and Instagram, and then re-target them with that content from the actual influencer. So that's where a lot of the power comes from is building those audiences on Facebook and showing them these people that look and think and talk like them, and then getting them to look at this product and say, "Oh, I've never heard of it. These people are using it. Hmm." It's kind of like that "this is everywhere" approach. You're going to get hit with a funny ad, you'll see my dad and I, and then you'll see an influencer with it. So breaking down those walls and making it normal is a big thing in the customer acquisition.Stephanie:Yep. Yeah. Completely agree. So how do you even garner... I'm thinking about like, you have this product, and do customers give you feedback and do you let that influence the product? Or are you more kind of like tunnel vision? "We know it's good. We've been to Japan. We know what it needs to be like." How do you think about that product development cycle?Thomas:Yeah. The product is what the product is right now. We know that we have a great bidet seat, and we know that we have great bidet attachments, and we have faith in these products to perform extremely well. They're super high quality. A lot of people love them. When you're working with a product that 98% of Americans don't have in their homes, you're going to get a lot of feedback about that product in particular. We are always listening, though. It's not to say we turn a deaf ear to what people are coming back and mentioning about the product, because there are things you can change down the road. So it takes a long time to develop. Years and years. So being able to hear what people are saying, seeing patterns in their responses, will definitely be guiding our product development. But for me, listening to our customers at the beginning was more about why they decided to try the product, what they like about it, and what they were skeptical about, and then taking that feedback and putting it back into our messaging. So that was super important to me.Stephanie:Yeah. That's a really good way to view feedback, from all angles. What are some of the most surprising pieces of feedback, either before the sale or after, that you've received where you're like, "Oh, that's very interesting"? Where you actually maybe implemented it into your copy, your language, the way you educate people? What was something surprising, or more than one thing, that actually helped influence how you talked about it or sold it?Thomas:Yeah, so one thing that we hear a lot, and I love to hear it, is: "Why didn't I do this sooner?" And it's that sentiment where it's like, "Ugh, I've been living my entire life wiping with dry paper, and these bidets have been around. What was I doing before?" And so, we take that sentiment into our marketing now. And then, on the pre-purchase side, it really came down to listening the frustration points of what we weren't showing and telling people on our website.Thomas:So there are little complications with your seat size and shape and your plumbing fixtures, and it's a complicated world down there by the toilet. And I was looking at it from a world of head down in bidets and toilets, and I knew too much about toilets than I ever needed to, and to be able to hear a customer pick your head up and say, "Oh, well, I obviously need to show this information. Why wasn't I doing that before? It doesn't matter. Put it on there now." That always has been a winning tactic for us.Stephanie:Yeah. I mean, it also seems like a good way, even around customer acquisition, building a piece of content of just, "How do I even hook this thing up?" I mean, even if they've bought it from a different brand or they're even considering it, I mean, that'd be my first question is, "Can I even do this myself? Do I need someone to come and install it for me? And what kind of things should I think about before buying something brand-new?" So it seems like a good content angle, too, to attract customers that maybe you wouldn't have otherwise.Thomas:Yeah. We put installation in a lot of our videos, and it's simple language, it's DIY, self-install, no special tools, no plumber required. Right? And that's kind of all you need to know. "Oh. I can handle it," is basically the message.Stephanie:Yep. Yeah. That's great. So earlier, you mentioned working with agencies was a piece of your world, and that's a topic that... We've had many founders on here where some are excited about it, some are like, "It didn't go well." How do you view working with agencies? What things did you choose to maybe hire out? What did you keep in-house? And how do you keep a good working relationship there?Thomas:Yeah, so the agency battle is: it seems incessant, until you find an amazing partner. And we've really settled into a couple of great partnerships, and those are the ones that we work harder at because we like the people internally and the work that they do. We get along with them. We have similar values when it comes to business, and so we put in extra time and effort say, "Hey, we don't really like this right now. We would like to change it this way," or, "We would like to see more of this." And the ones that take your feedback and change are the ones that you're going to stay with, and those are the people that we continue to work with.Thomas:So it's not easy finding a good agency, and we've had agency turnover multiple times with Omigo so far, but settling into a great relationship is extremely fruitful; and it's still going to be work, but that's the approach that we've taken. And to answer what we have kept in-house versus kind of farmed out, we keep customer service and product development in-house. Super important to keep that close to home, understand that feedback loop of what are people saying, how can we answer their questions more efficiently, and making sure that when it comes to a plumbing product, they have a great experience talking to someone and getting their questions answered. So keeping that close to home is super important.Stephanie:Yeah, it definitely seems like a high-touch customer service experience that, once you get past that point, it can be an instant sale as long as you have a good lead in and know everything and their questions are all answered from the start much easier, and you have to kind of keep that in-house. I can see why. So getting back to you working with your dad, and he's done a bunch of cool things before, what are some of the lessons and insights he brought into the company that you're like, "Wow, that really helped get it off the ground," or, "These insights here or his experience here really helped kind of get it going"? What kind of things did he bring to this company today that helped you guys lead it to where it is?Thomas:Yeah, so after he sold and exited Canvas On Demand, he started to consult with other ecommerce brands. So he is the friendliest person I know probably, and loves being around people, talking with them, listening to them, helping them, so it was a natural fit for him to take this... How many years was it? Seven or eight years at Canvas On Demand, where ecommerce was changing. It was in such a growth stage. Everything was different year after year, and so he had to adapt constantly. And I think that really shaped his way of thinking about ecommerce and allowed him to go past this legacy concept of ecommerce, that you might get stuck if you started in 2001, and really grow with that channel.Thomas:So he took that into his consulting career, and so, for the six years in between his sale and Omigo, he was consulting with ecommerce brands of all sizes: $5 million a year to $120-150 million a year and everywhere in between. So what we took from his experience into Omigo was what he calls his "ecommerce playbook," and it was the fundamentals of where you need to start with a direct-to-consumer business. And the basics of that were: great customer service, like I mentioned, solid fulfillment,Thomas:And the fundamentals of a website, so that being: something simple and functional, having a great hero and landing page, having solid email capture, having all of your email flows built and all of your knowledge base in place and everything ready to scale, because something could happen overnight like it did with Omigo, and you have to be ready to go from 10 orders a day to 150. So he brought this ecommerce playbook and this really rich knowledge base and a lot of connections to the start of Omigo.Stephanie:Nice. And so, how many orders are you guys at today? You just talked about going from like 10 a day to a hundred. What does it look like today, and what did that process look like scaling to where you are now?Thomas:Yeah, it fluctuates. So it's been a funny year-and-a-half for Omigo, because at the beginning of the pandemic, the toilet paper shortage hit.Stephanie:Oh, yeah. I forgot about that.Thomas:Right? Forgot about that.Stephanie:Yeah.Thomas:What a crazy time.Stephanie:I like to forget about dumb things like that. We didn't actually have a toilet paper shortage, we just had a logistics problem. But okay. Carry on.Thomas:We had a hoarding problem and a logistics problem. Either way, it was great for the bidet industry. It was an odd time to prosper, when you had a lot of people going through hardships and a lot of unknown in the future, but we couldn't look at that in the moment because people needed a solution to the toilet paper shortage. And bidets are the best answer, so, "Hello. We're Omigo. We've been here. Welcome." And during that time, it was Black Friday every day for a week. And then, that lasted about a month and a half. We sold out. Sales tapered back down in the summer, picked back up during holiday paper shortage, and then kind of continued into the new year. And we're seeing kind of a mini decline right now, and a steadying out of how many purchases we get. So still trying to figure it out. We haven't cracked the code 100% and we're working at it constantly, but definitely going with the flow as far as when orders are coming in and when they're not.Stephanie:So what are some lessons or things that you're adjusting going forward now that you've kind of seen these fluctuations of demand and Black Friday every day for a week, and then tapering down again? What kind of things are you maybe adjusting going forward to kind of future-proof the back end as well to make sure that you can keep up with it when it's there and then still have your suppliers and manufacturers when it's not Black Friday levels? How are you guys thinking about that now?Thomas:Yeah. Well, after we sold out, we realized this could happen again, especially during the pandemic. It was super unsure times. So we really shored up our supply chain. We ordered a lot of product, and we have a lot of product, and we are continually ordering it. Because we know it's a matter of time until bidets are ubiquitous. I mean, I am confident in that. It may take five more years. It may take 20 more years, but there's going to be one day where bidets are everywhere. And our products, they're shelf stable. It's not like they're going to be going bad, so having that on hand, being ready for a boom, is one way that we're future-proofing ourselves.Thomas:And another way is just keeping everything tight on our website. We are constantly A/B testing and trying out new copy or new design to optimize how customers are coming in, learning about our product, and finally purchasing. So keeping everything tight on the website keeps us future-proof. And being direct to consumer, we have a great relationship with our distribution centers, so always knowing that we're going to have a distribution relationship where, "Hey, yeah, we're at X amount of orders today, but that could double in the next three weeks and we need to make sure that you're ready." So having the infrastructure there, as well.Stephanie:So where are you most excited to take Omigo over the next maybe three to five years? What are you guys working towards? What are you most excited about right now?Thomas:Yeah, I'm really excited about television.Stephanie:Yeah?Thomas:I think that it's funny, because you think TV five years ago, you're like, "Oh, TV is dying. It's all going to be streaming." And yeah, it is a lot of streaming, but it's still a traditional marketing platform. There are still ads on every streaming platform and cable is still a booming industry. It is a gigantic industry. A lot of people have cable, Dish, and the like, and I think that for a young direct-to-consumer brand, getting in front of that many eyeballs is really exciting for us. So it's not a new channel; it's just new to us.Thomas:We are going to be launching soon. Yeah, we're going to be launching soon and are excited about the results. We have some people that we know that are doing well on TV and we think that we're going to do well, also.Stephanie:Cool. And is it specifically focusing on cable? Which I do feel like a lot of people are kind of sleeping on that, but I also wonder if maybe it's a generational thing, where it depends on who your target audience is that you're trying to get in front of; where maybe people closer to our age, they might not have cable. They're probably Netflix, Hulu, everywhere else, YouTube. But then, when I about maybe my parents, for sure they still have cable, and they're probably not going to get rid of it for a long time. So which areas... Or are you exploring all of that?Thomas:Yeah, we'll definitely explore all of it. Streaming is great. We have those low-price bidet attachments at Omigo that start at $89. So great entry-level, great price for anyone that wants a bidet. And then, our top-of-the-line bidet is at $649, and we do see the demographic there swing older. And that's a demographic that is humongous in this country. A lot of them are still watching cable, like you said, so they don't know about these luxury bidet toilet seats. And if they see it on TV, I think that kind of awareness is just going to do good things for every bidet company out there.Stephanie:Cool. Yeah, we'll have to circle back once you guys are live and [crosstalk] see you out there in the world on one of the channels.Thomas:You will.Stephanie:That'd be fun to hear the results and how it's going.Thomas:Yeah, so excited.Stephanie:All right. Well, let's shift over to the lightning round. Lightning round is brought to you by Salesforce Commerce Cloud. This is where I ask a question and you have a minute or less to answer. Are you ready, Thomas?Thomas:Yes.Stephanie:Cool. What ecommerce tool or piece of technology are you most excited about right now that you guys are maybe experimenting with?Thomas:So we've been on SMS for awhile, but SMS has just been a great platform for us. Being able to get into people's pockets and the open rate and click-through rate has been awesome. So SMS is a killer. It's not going anywhere and we're super excited about it.Stephanie:Awesome. What's up next on your reading list or your podcast queue?Thomas:Let's see. Guiltily been learning more about crypto lately on my podcast queue, so trying to educate myself on not just kind of what's booming and busting, but the inner workings and how to actually invest longterm into that world. So definitely a little bit of crypto podcasts in there.Stephanie:Nice. Yeah. There's some good ones out there. Personal favorites.Thomas:I'll have to ask. Yeah.Stephanie:I'll just send some episodes your way that are good ones. When you want to get creative, what do you do to get into that headspace?Thomas:I turn off everything around me, because I'm a very distractible person, and I really put myself into the place of who this creative project is for. Put on a little different hat for email, put on a different hat for Facebook, and if I'm stuck, I leave. Wherever I am. I go outside and move my body. I'm a very active person, so being able to get some blood flow gets my creative juices going, too.Stephanie:Yep. Yeah, same. Cool. All right. And the last one, what one thing will have the biggest impact on ecommerce in the next year?Thomas:The next year: the continued at-home life. People are not going to go back to the office full-time. A lot of people are going to keep spending time at home. People are buying houses. So this at-home goods and everything that you can use around the house is going to be huge, because people are still shopping online. People are still getting everything shipped to their door. We're not going to go back to retail yet. I think that's going to be in the next year. A big one.Stephanie:Cool. All right, Thomas, thanks so much for coming on the show and talking about bidets and the fun world. Where can people find out more about you and Omigo?Thomas:Yep, so if you want to find out about me, you can find me on LinkedIn: Thomas Lotrecchiano. And if you want to find out about Omigo, you can go to Myomigo.com. That's M-Y-O-M-I-G-O dot com. We have all of your butt washing needs. Stop wiping, people. Wash your butt.Stephanie:Do it the right way. Come on. All right. Thanks so much, Thomas.Thomas:Thank you, Stephanie. It's been a lot of fun.

In the words of Nick Venegoni, “Initiation is a moment when you can step into the next level of power.” Nick compares initiation to leveling up, like in gaming. You gain a new power. What if this is true? What if we can reframe the challenges in our lives as initiations that not only help us get through the hard moments but also help us to level up?   Links: The Queer Spirit Podcast Website Facebook Twitter Instagram Rate This Podcast Music by Terry Hughes   Full Transcript In the words of Nick Venegoni, “Initiation is a moment when you can step into the next level of power.” Nick compares initiation to leveling up, like in gaming. You gain a new power. What if this is true? What if we can reframe the challenges in our lives as initiations that not only help us get through the hard moments but also help us to level up? This is Shame Piñata. I’m Colleen Thomas. Welcome to Shame Piñata, where we talk about creating rites of passage for real-life transitions. Today we are going to explore a recent conversation I had with Nick Venegoni. Nick has been a guest on Shame Piñata and hosts his own show called The Queer Spirit Podcast. The Queer Spirit Podcast highlights conversations with artists, healers & activists who enliven, heal & empower the LGBTQ+ communities. In the following episode of The Queer Spirit Podcast you will hear a discussion focusing on ritual, initiation and change. Topics covered include the ritual I created to honor the 10 year anniversary of my father's passing, the first ritual I ever did, how rituals help us make sense of change and the power of initiation. We will also touch on coming out as one of the biggest queer initiations, my own coming out story and also, the story behind the name of the Shame Pinata podcast. Stay tuned through the end of Nick's show for a preview of what's coming on Shame Piñata this summer. And now, The Queer Spirit Podcast. Venegoni: Welcome to The Queer Spirit Podcast. I'm your host, Nick Venegoni. Here we have conversations with artists, healers, and activists who enliven the LGBTQ+ communities, and who empower our queer spirits to flourish. Before we get started with the interview, if you haven't heard, I've started a Patreon account for the podcast. Patreon is a way for you to help support the show and get special rewards in return such as a thank you shout out on the show, and an enameled button with the queer spirit logo. This year, I've also added access to videos of the podcast interviews and a free monthly live virtual sound bath. If you'd like to join in supporting the show, just go to patreon.com/queerspirit. You can also find the link in the show notes. Any Patreon funds remaining after the basic production costs will be donated to nonprofit supporting diverse queer communities. Once again that link is patreon.com/queerspirit. Thanks for your consideration. Venegoni: My guest today is Colleen Thomas. Colleen is a ritual artist and independent audio producer her podcast Shame Piñata focuses on creating rites of passage for real life transitions. Today we talk about the importance of ritual as a container and support for big and small changes in our lives. Colleen shares how she discovered the power of ritual to help her feel supported through life's challenges. She also shares some examples of the ways people have honored their relationships from the stories heard on her podcast. Find Colleen and her show at shamepinata.com. Venegoni: Hi, Colleen, welcome to the show. Thomas: Hi, Nick, it's so good to be here with you. Venegoni: Yeah, I'm excited to talk a little bit more about your podcast, having recently been a guest on it myself and share a little bit more about the vision that you're bringing out into the world. But before we do that, I wonder if you can just tell us a little bit about what inspired you to start a podcast about rites of passage? Thomas: Sure. Well, I guess it's sort of a roundabout answer. I have a very strong interest in radio and working in radio in some capacity, which there's a story around that too. But I'll just stick with this story. I was offered an internship with a local radio station and was so excited about it. But then I also started a new day job that exact same moment and I couldn't do both because one was 40 hours a week, and one was 20 hours a week and I was going to have a three hour a day commute so there's no way it was gonna fit! And so after about a year of getting my feet settled at the new job and learning all the new things with the commute and all the changes, life change, I found an audio coach and she helped me figure out a podcast project because I just wanted to be doing something. And I really wanted it to be about performance art, because I'm very interested in performance art and developing myself as a performance artist. But she said, “You keep telling me amazing stories about ritual.” And I decided… first I was like, “No… ritual... yeah, I do that all the time. I want to do this new thing.” And she's like, “No, no, I really think about it.” And then I thought about it and then I decided, “Yes, this is a thing. This is an important piece of my life. I have a master's degree in spirituality, I've put a lot of thought and energy into it. And I love to design ritual,” so I decided to make that the focus of the show. Venegoni: Great. So what is your history and your background with… or your just... your relationship with a ritual in general? Thomas: Well, I was an only child, I am an only child, so when I was a kid, I did a lot of things on my own. So I think a lot of my creativity comes from that. My friends say that I'm like, the most creative person they know. I'm like, sort of... that's like, “Oh, you're so creative.” They always say that. So I think I kind of had that already. And make believe it's been a really big part of my life, you know, I can see... I can entertain myself, I'm fine on my own. And I was religious when I was a kid but I wasn't... I guess really wasn't spiritual until I had sort of an awakening after college when I realized that my moon flow was a very sacred thing for me. And the time of the menstruation became a very big spiritual practice for me. And that led me to a school in Oakland, California, Matthew Fox's University of Creation Spirituality... well, that sort of spiritual, that awakening spirituality and me led me there. And then I got to focus on the blood mysteries for my master's thesis. So I got to really delve into the concept of the Red Tent during that time. And just sort of around that time, I just started, you know, honoring the new moon and the full moon and creating ritual for this and that and I just began to realize that rites of passage are super important, like whenever anything is going on in my life that you know is a little difficult or challenging, or I want my community around me... or it's usually for me, always things that nobody would understand. So like there's no ceremony for this weird thing is happening in my life, so I'm gonna have to create it. So that's kind of what prompted creating ceremony. Venegoni: Yeah. And for you what is important about creating some kind of ritual or ceremony for these strange or unique or significant things that are happening in your life? Thomas: Well, they're important, and they're usually scary and new, and I don't want to be alone in them. And they're all really important moments. And I guess it's basically I don't want to be alone. Venegoni: And even if it's something that's just happening to you, can you just share like how, by doing ritual, you don't feel alone? Thomas: Well, I usually do it in community. So that's kind of a built-in way. I do ritual by myself but lately, it's been more in community. I guess, what I do mostly when I'm alone, is I'm often planning something that I'm doing in community. So bringing people together... I just had a big ritual for myself about a month ago on the anniversary of my father's death, the 10 year anniversary of my father's death, honoring another step I felt I had taken in my own healing from that relationship. And it was really healing for me to plan it and to sense into what was changing exactly, and it was several things. And to honor... to figure out where those things wanted to go and exactly what would honor them. And exactly, then how would I bring community into that? And like, what would that look like? And it involved some jewelry, presenting myself with jewelry [LAUGHS] This is a typical theme for me - I have a whole bunch of significant jewelry. And I picked people to present me with the pieces. And those people, I gave them the full lowdown, “This is exactly what this means, and let's work together on how you will present this to me, you know, in ritual space.” And then I had... I also invited everybody to that particular ritual to bring something. So it's very important for me to have everybody's voice in the circle. And so everybody brought some kind of reading. Everybody got involved in some way. And the beauty of that is that at first I thought, “Oh, I'll just send out… please read that.” And then I was getting some… “Oh, that doesn't resonate with me... that doesn't… that feels weird”, or, you know, or “Can I read this?” and that was kind of I didn't want that. But then it actually turned into this really much deeper and richer involvement of each person so that they really showed up with this thing that meant something to them and then they contributed. So then it was like we were weaving, constantly weaving, this circle deeper and stronger with all of us. And it ultimately helped me achieve one of my big goals with ceremony, which is even if it's for me, for everybody to get something out of it as much as that's possible. And everybody always says things like, “Oh, you did this for us. This isn't for you, you engineered this for us” you know… It's like I'm always really happy when they they feel that way about it. Yeah, Venegoni: Yeah. Yeah. And you've used a word that I really resonate with when I think about ritual, which is weaving. You know, in pagan communities, when we talk about spellcrafting, we talk about weaving a spell. But even for those who don't resonate with the word spell, I do think even in ritual, particularly with other people, that there's this way that it feels woven together, like we all have a little a part of it, you know. I think about this idea of like the maypole at Beltane when people... everyone's holding on to a ribbon and they're all dancing together, and they're weaving this beautiful pattern around the pole. Or even if you're alone, and you are working with Spirit or other Deities, there's a way in which they are working with you and they're weaving this ritual with you together. And it could be the image I'm getting right now is, you know, weaving a blanket of protection or comfort around you if there's grief or sorrow, or some challenge happening. But the.. I really like that image and that sense of weaving. Do you have a special memory of one of your own rites of passage? I mean, you just mentioned this one about the anniversary of your father's death. But I wonder if there's something in particular maybe even like the first one that felt significant to you that really felt like, “Oh, this is for me, I'm really, you know, this works for me better than, you know, maybe this other religion that I was raised”? Thomas: Hmm. Well, I had a period of my life when I was just first in college, I met a woman who was a bi witch. And those both were new concepts to me - like as them as being legitimate was new to me. Like I had heard of bisexual people in my life, but it was always with, “Oh, yeah, that person is a little confused...” You know, like, it was never like, “Oh, that person's bi and they're cool.” or, “They're just a person”, you know, like, it was always like, there was a caveat that it was like - bad. And even from my gay friends that's what I was hearing. And later when I came out to some of my gay friends as bi, they were kind of like, “Oh, I'm sorry.” and I was like, “Just stop it!” So... but she was bi and so that was a little challenge for me, too. Like, you know, like, “Oh wait, she's really amazing” reprogramming you know, my brain. And then she was a witch and something about her being both challenged me in those ways at the same time. And I think I was always a witch and just didn't know it. When I was six or four or something like that, my mom made me a bad witch costume. The Wizard of Oz was big in our house. So she made me the bad witch costume. And the next year, she made me the Good Witch costume. And then I just, I literally wore them every year. I rotated the Good Witch, Bad Witch, Good Witch, just like and… I liked the Good Witch costume a little bit better because it had a like a princess... the hat was turned into like a princess hat and it had like a big piece of taffeta hanging down off the point, you know, so it sort of swirled around me. And so that felt very pretty to me, and soft, and blue was very blue. But other than that I didn't have a preference of the Good Witch, Bad Witch. And so I just feel like then later meeting this woman in college and realizing what being a witch meant to her being a pagan, earth based spirituality and learning what that was, that just felt like, wow, that makes so much more sense than, you know, the way I was trained to learn all the Christian things I was raised with. Those always felt very important to me, but I've never understood them and spent a fair amount of time banging my head against the wall trying to get them in. And it just never really it never fit. It never exactly made sense to me. And so then I met her and then I sort of moved into that space. And so that freshman year, I remember the spring of my freshman year in college, I remember, that was like a real time of awakening. And I was surrounding myself with pagan learnings and pagan experiences. And I had one, I don't usually refer to them as spells. Now, like you mentioned that word, I don't really resonate with that word. But when I first came to it, that word was used a lot. And so I was sort of involved in that word. And my first spell I did was it was this, like, “Let me be healthy and green. Love myself. Love the planet…” It was very, like, very, it was very good witchy! under a tree. And I just sort of like I read something out of a book, which is totally not the way I operate. Now, like I would never read something out of a book or a spell now, because it's like, “Wait, now what does that mean? And what was the intention behind that?” and I'm not going to read out of a book unless I really love it. But I was, you know, under this tree reading this spell, and it was something about having a green cord and tying it on a tree or something. And it was just basically a prayer. It was very simple. But I remember that as being a very profound moment of me moving into this nature-based place that felt so empowering and so lush and so real and immediate. Venegoni: So one of the things that you sort of tagline in your podcast as you want to talk to people about how rituals help us make a sense of change. And we sort of touched on that a little bit. But I'm curious, both through your own experience, and through the interviews you've had with people, like, how do rituals help us make sense of change? Thomas: Well, early on in my show, one of my guests, Betty Ray, she said, “Rituals help us create a container to hold the powerful emotions that come with change.” And that really, like I was like, Yeah. Like all my guests have been putting words to these things I've been feeling all this time and that is exactly… to me... that resonates for me. Because... if the other thing that I've been noticing is like if I'm developing this theory that we can handle change, and change is a very constant thing, but we don't like it. And we like to just tick tick tick tick along like normal and like, “Okay, I'm good if this like, you know, all these things in my life stay the same, and it's good, I'm good.” But then like something happens, then I go into this place of, “Oh!” and upset and fear. And it's like strong emotions. Basically like boom, strong emotions! So then maybe that's a situation... problems, not all of them. But maybe that's a situation where a ritual could help. You know, I was brainstorming last night, my next episode, which I'm thinking about calling, like, Do you need a ceremony? Or is it time for ceremony? Or how do you know you need to ceremony or something like that. And I was thinking about all the changes in our lives that happened, and maybe which ones of them, you know, how do we know if we want to ceremony around this or not? Like, like, if I need to move, maybe I don't have time for a ceremony because I'm busy moving so like, sorry, you know. But if somebody is that I love is sick and I can't be with them, maybe that's a perfect time for ceremony for myself, or to gather people around me to sit with me while I hold space for them, you know, across the miles or whatever is challenging. We can feel into like, “Would something be helpful? Would it be helpful to create a container for these emotions? Or would it just be helpful to like, write them all down in a journal and like, just put them somewhere?” You know, like, it doesn't have to be, you know, a zoom call with friends or people in my living room or you know, it doesn't have to be a big thing. It could be a very small, intentional act to help deal with a situation. Yeah. Venegoni: And I know that something You and I had discussed on your show a little bit was the concept of initiation. And I'm curious, you know, what sort of your ideas are about initiation, what initiation means, particularly in the construct of a ritual? Thomas: Well, you were the one who said that on my show, I thought it was Thom, but it was you. And it was really a magical moment for me when you said that I was like, “Oh, my gosh, this is that's exactly…” Like I had been framing it like that, like, when I think of initiation, I tend to think of, you know, Imbolc, or, you know, joining a group and, you know, going through something... being initiated into, like, a coven or something official like that, like… Not just like, “Oh, I'm going into phase 27A of my life now” You know, and, or my relationship now, right? And so that's an initiation. So like that, that just struck me as like, wow, that's beautiful way to put it, because, especially if something is coming up that I don't want, you know, like, this thing is like, “Oh god, this horrible thing is happening in my life!” Like, you know, how, yes, I'm changing, I'm being forced to change in this moment. How can I reframe this as an initiation? Or how is it initiation, or what I want to claim and is one now, like, and what's being ignited in me what's being birthed in me and needing to deal with this change, right? And then, of course, the we can, you know, becoming 40, becoming 50, becoming 60, getting married, having a baby, all those things, you know, initiations into a new phase of life, it just seems to me like using that word initiation makes it, it just feels really different than saying, “I'm going into a hard thing or changing in some way.” Venegoni: Well, what I'm thinking about right now, as we talked about, is if you just take the word initiate, usually to initiate something means that you are doing it of your own volition. You know, you've talked about some of these other things that just kind of happen that we don't have control over like death, or the cycles of our body… you know, those kinds of things that often we know that they're going to come but we have to just prepare and deal with it and so let's just create this container to have to work through it more easily. But to initiate something means that you are doing it because you have to. So that was just something I just thought of now is like that's a way to sort of take the power back. And that's also the way that I think about initiation. So it's a moment when you can step into the next level of power. You know, if you think about it from a sort of gaming perspective, it's a level up. You gain a new power, and what is that power? And how do you really sink into that and hold that? Or what is that new tool that you may acquire through this process of the ritual and what comes after that? Thomas: Yeah, definitely. Yeah, I think so too. It's like a choice. Yeah. Venegoni: And in our culture, you know, there are certain things especially from a religious perspective that we do initiate ourselves, you know, as you've talked... mentioned, and you talk about on your podcast is weddings and baptism and other things. But, you know, I also talked to people about like an initiation, like a graduation as an initiation. Thomas: Definitely. Venegoni: You know, you are completing something, you are gaining this certificate or this diploma, that's gonna give you power and allow you to, you know, level up in your career or in your work or whatever it is that you do, and you can bring that out into the world. Thomas: Yeah, they often call it matriculation. You know, I had a situation in my school where somebody didn't have a diploma because they had matriculated; they were in a different system. They were like, “Well, you didn't graduate.” It's like... it’s the same thing! Yeah, but that word has like going on, that means going on finishing. So it's like it's a different way of... we call it graduation, but it's really matriculation, which is going on. Venegoni: Yeah, yeah. And as I think I talked about on your show, and I'll just mention it again here for folks, as I think one of the biggest initiations that queer folks go through is coming out, you know, coming out in terms of your sexuality or your gender identity. And it's also something that, you know, a lot of queer people... we have to continue to come out to more and more people as we move on and, and that there is a way in which it's looked at as something scary, or, you know, because it can be a significant change for people if their family or their community or their loved ones are not accepting that, they could be rejected or abandoned. But there's also a claiming of power that can happen with that too, like I'm stepping more fully into my truth and who I am. And there may be some big changes that happen that I don't have control over. But what are the ways that I can take this forward with more power and feel more solid and myself? Thomas: Definitely. Definitely. I feel like the coming out stories are very powerful to hear. And when we go to that place and queer community where people share their coming out stories, it's like... it's that deep, powerful sharing that happens within a group where everybody in the group, you know, gets it. And they've all got their own, like really deep well from it. And there's just a very personal place. And so obviously, hearing coming out stories for anybody would be powerful, hopefully. But within the community, it's like... it's all kind of like... it's just so much. It's so powerful. Venegoni: Yeah. Now, I've noticed that on your podcast, you've had a fair number of episodes where you talk about weddings. And I understand because that's probably the most common, you know, whether or not people are spiritual or religious, they still go through that ritual of a wedding, even if it's just going to the courthouse and signing a document. There's still something ritualistic about it. But I'm curious to know, like, if you've learned anything interesting or unique by talking to so many different people about their weddings, or, you know, if weddings have taken on a new meaning for you, now that you've heard so many different stories about it? Thomas: Well, I chose weddings as a focus for season one, because I thought, just like you said, it could be a good entry point for folks and I thought I might stick with a theme for each season going forward. And then I decided that I didn't know I could get enough stories about like coming of age for season two, or whatever. So maybe I just needed to kind of go generic, but I wanted that to be an entry point for people. And I talked about two different sorts of ideas behind rites of passage on the show. One is the ones that there are and there aren't party decorations for. That’s kind of the way I see it, like, there are party decorations for weddings, and graduations, and well... not exactly funerals, but that's accepted as like, you know, a rite of passage or community time around a significant change. And then there's the personal ones, like the one I'm talking with my father, you know, the 10 year anniversary of my father’s passing, like, there’s no party decorations for that, right? So I got to create it myself. So I sort of want to have those two branches constantly in the show, right? So… but to your question about learning about weddings, I've just been inspired by people who have done it their way, which is kind of... and I have sought out those people. “You did it your way. Come talk to me!” you know… And your handfasting with Thom resonated so much with what I did, in my own experience, with my husband. It was like pretty much... we did a very similar thing of involving the community, being married by everybody. We invited, you know, big, huge ritual, you know, in a big space, big… nobody's sitting in chairs, everybody's super involved the entire two hours, you know, like so it was a really... it was a joy to speak with the two of you, because it resonated so strongly with my experience which I still have so much good feeling about. You know, and there was one interview with Betsy Weiss, she and her partner, Brandon, they had not gotten married, they had a ceremony which was not a marriage. And that was so she could be connected with her family before her mother passed. So it was as if they were getting married - it was sort of hard to conceptualize. And her aunts like had to make centerpieces because they didn't know what to do. They were like, “We're gonna make centerpieces!” you know, we're just like… “Okay, you're not getting married, but we're gonna make centerpieces…” because it was such a hard time for the family and her mother was passing away. But it was like... they did a wedding right before her mother died but they consciously did not get married. And they had one everybody understand that, and everybody was really confused. But like, they did exactly what they wanted. In the end, everybody kind of got it, you know, and they had this lovely... different levels of the ceremony where the deeper ceremony was very intimate, it was just the family. And then they had like, another level where they had was sort of like a reception, but it was like a gathering of more people. And then another gathering of more people, like sequentially throughout the day not like another day. And it was just really beautiful, the way that they involved everybody at different levels, you know, in different ways around the ceremony that was super meaningful to them that people really didn't get, but they showed up for anyway. And they were just kind of trusting, “I think this is what you want…” you know, like… So it was just … that was the most unique one. But they've all been super inspiring in terms of everybody doing it their own way. And really, it's kind of soul searching in the process, because a lot of people in the interview share their process with me, you know, how did you get from here to there, you know, and taking it apart and really finding what sparked for them, you know, what does this need to be for us? How do we make it happen? Venegoni: Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I like about that, and what you've sort of mentioned before, is that with ritual, it can usually be a lot more, a lot richer and more special if you are making it your own. You know, you talked about the first ritual that you did that you just kind of read out of the book, and you're like, “I don't really know, but I don't know how to do this. I'm just going to read something out of a book”, but now you only create it yourself. And that's one of the things that I talked to a lot of queer folks About especially queer couples or people who are in any kind of relationship, and they're like, “Well, I don't know if I want to get married…” or even if they do get married, like how they structure their relationship itself. It's like, you get to make it what you want. And I think that that something's unique that straight people can do too and they just don't think about it or know it. They just feel like, “Oh, I have to follow this formula,” you know? But you can make the ritual what you want it to be. It doesn't have to look like it looks in the wedding magazines or on TV, or that you can make your relationship look how you want it to look. And so, you know, that's just one of the things I think is really important to get across to all people, you know, just to keep sharing that. So I really like that, you know, that they created this unique thing for themselves. And like, this is not a wedding. I mean, it sounds kind of like a loosely, maybe a commitment ceremony. Thomas: Yeah, yeah. I don't think they would have used that word for some reason, but I think you could, it was like an acknowledgement of their relationship. Yeah. Venegoni: It's an announcement of like, this is who we are, Thomas: What you just said, was making me think that telling people you can do... I do that a lot, you can do anything. You know, out of the box, it’s up to you. And yet people like, “Okay, if I can do anything, then what does that mean?” Like I mean that's like, “Jump off a cliff!” You know? There's like, you know… anything's possible and so it can be helpful to have, I guess that's kind of another thing I'm hoping maybe my show would fill or things like my show, it's like, here's a bunch of examples of things people have done. And like when I work with people to help them create a ceremony, I'll sort of feel into… “Okay, exactly, what are you looking for here?” and then like, then I'll just start throwing out… “Listen, I'm just going to dump a bunch of ideas out and you're going to maybe like a couple, you're maybe not going to hate a couple, whatever, I'm just dumping them on the table, and then you can just sort of flip through them. And if anything resonates, you know…” Then, because we need like some building blocks, when we go from a total structure to total nothingness, that doesn't work unless you really like... you've got a thread to build on, or you've already kind of picturing something, you’ve got a felt sense of what you want, and brainstorm. And all that… it kinda doesn't come out of nowhere. Like it has to be built. So... or has that you have to let it build, right? So it's like, we all need examples, like we all need that. Like, as a woman, I would say, we need that strong woman that we're like, that's a woman who's married, and she's still completely in herself. That... I like that and I want to build on that idea. Like, I did that in my life, you know? And so, like, we need examples, and we need ideas to kick around. Venegoni: Yeah, yeah, and that's, you know, one of the things I think is really great about your show, that it helps people hear, oh, this is something different and that's possible. And maybe I want to do something kind of like that, but maybe not exactly the same and I'll take a little bit of this and a little bit of that. I mean, to me, that's also a ritual is a little bit of this, and a little bit of that. Throw it all together, and you see what happens. Thomas: Exactly and then you mix it all the people and yeah… Venegoni: And then the day of, you know, the magic comes together, and you're like, Oh, it's created something completely different. The alchemy of the ritual. Thomas: Exactly, yeah. You never know what's gonna happen. Venegoni: So Colleen, before we wrap up, can you share with us a personal practice or experience that has supported your career spiritual flourish? Thomas: You know, really, I would say, my mom. She... the short version of my coming out story is that my dad laughed, and my mom cried. And it was, you know, a hard moment. But then over the years, she became an advocate. It was like, extremely slow, from my perspective. You know, I would be at pride and I would see a PFLAG contingent and I would cry. I would always cry when I saw PFLAG because I just thought, “Oh my god, I'm so lost. My parents will never ever, ever, ever, ever be there.” And I just was just such a devastating to me that I mean, they hadn't been mean, they hadn't been cruel, but they were just never going to go there is what it felt like. And it mailed my mom one of the PFLAG books and I told her, “Listen, you got to find people to process with because I can't process this with you because I'm the problem in this, you know, equation for you.” And I sent it to her work because I didn't want like my dad to see it at the house. And she said she kept it in a drawer for a couple of years, I think. And then she read it. And then she found a PFLAG group in our town, which... Our town is very small so the PFLAG group was also like the gay group. So it was like both supporters and queer people. And there she met a woman who ran the Unitarian Church, and she was the pastor of the... minister of the Unitarian Church. She was a lesbian, and she thought she was amazing. And so then she joined the Unitarian Church... anyway, all this snowball effect, right? And that she was around a lot of queer people and, and then it... you know, years later, she sent me this picture of herself standing in front of the television. So my dad had taken it because my dad just watched TV 24/7 after he retired and, well that's not true but he was often watching TV. And so she stood in front of the TV. And she said, “Take a picture of me!” And she was wearing a like a sandwich board, like an advertising sandwich board that said, “I love my bisexual daughter”. And she was headed off to pride in some city nearby. And she said… she told me that she said to him, “There are five phases in, I don't know, acceptance or something”, you know. “The first is denial, that's where you are. The last one is advocacy, that's where I am!” And then she walked out of the room with her her sandwich board. You know, now she's still a big advocate when she can get out, she’ll go to pride stuff. And so she's jus... and she says to me, you know, it's really sad that my dad never really changed at all. And she said, “You know, it's really sad that your dad never really moved,” but she was just so… And, you know, and just knowing that when I was back at this Pride Parade, seeing the PFLAG, and it was just devastating to me, like, never ever imagining that she would end that there'd be any movement with them. It was just, she was really… She became a lot more comfortable with the witch thing too, eventually. So that was really scary, too. Of course, you know, we get it, we get a lot of messages about about witches that are bad. So she's continuing on an ongoing basis, being a very supportive person in my life. Venegoni: So one last question. Your show is called shame pan, yada. Can you help us understand what that's about? Thomas: Yeah, sure. So when I was coming up with names for the show, I was trying to think of like descriptive names, like, you know, reinventing ritual, things like that. And I was brainstorming with my husband, and he said, “Well, you could call it like blue dog. And it won't matter what you call it, as long as you then you know, put out your message and people associate your message with the words blue dog.” So he said, “So, you know, maybe think about that.” So I was thinking about that, and brainstorming with a friend at work. And I said, “Well, I don't know, like this blue dog idea. I don't know if I want to do that.” And she said, ”Well, okay, if you looked around, like what you do when you do ritual, and what do you see? You know, we don't see a blue dog, what do you see?” And I said, “Oh, I see a shame piñata because I had just done a ritual recently, which is how I had that job where I was with this new coworker on lunch talking about this, where I had been at my old job (and I'm going to do an episode on this, but I haven't yet) I had... I was at a job for 14 years and I stayed like 10 years longer than I probably should have. And each of those years, I ended up sort of dying inside and sort of a way, right? This happens. And when I didn't make the change I needed to make. And it got to a really critical moment and I needed to leave. And I had so many, so many, so many hard feelings. There were like 10 years of hard feelings about myself being at this job, which was crazy. And I decided that shame exposure was a tool I wanted to use, which is something I had learned about in therapy, where we talk about something we feel deeply shameful about in a safe place, with people who will be kind and not, you know, laugh and stuff. And so I created a ritual around... it was shame I was feeling about staying in this job. And I did a ritual around it and with some friends on on zoom. This was before the pandemic, but they were remote friends, I wanted to have them involved, just my like four closest friends in the world and... because I feel like, “I'm not gonna tell too many people about all this shame!” And so part of the ritual involves piñata that I bought on Amazon, that I put sort of the negative self talk... I just kind of let it all come out of my head and I pasted it all over this piñata and it was just all these awful words on this piñata. And I decided it was my shame piñata and part of the ritual involved finding it in myself to be ready to shift to like, “Let's make this change now!” And being not just an idea. It started with the idea, “Oh, I should go break the shame piñata.” And then it was like standing in front of the shame piñatawith a stick going, “I'm just… I want to die. I don't have any desire to actually do this.” And it was like, “Just let the ground open up and swallow me now. Whatever it is watching me like I'm still in it.” But then waiting, just waiting, just waiting and starting to hear this little voice say, “No.” It was very quiet. And then it got louder. And I just let it organically grow. And then pretty soon it was like “No!” and it moved into my arms. And then it was like smashing the piñata and then that magic happened, right? And then it like changed and shifted and a few other things in the ceremony facilitated that as well. But it was the like the moments, the ceremony was like the breaking of the shame piñata and it really worked. It worked. It got me like boom! out of that job boom! into another one really quickly. Everything just like lined up. It was one of those work rituals that like ended up working really well with the intention. So when I had that conversation with her, she said, “What do you see” and I said I see a shame piñata…” and nobody's gonna have that podcast name. Venegoni: That's true. It's a very unique and memorable name. Yeah. Was there anything inside the shame piñata? Thomas: Yeah, I had filled it with my favorite candy. And just as a side note on that was that I had, in my spirit of wanting everybody to get something out of their ritual, I had bought a separate set of little tabletop piñatas, these little tiny ones and I had asked my four friends who were participating in the ritual… I didn't want to tell them I was sending them a piñata, but I said, “What small thing do you like? What would be a nice small thing for you?” And one person wanted like bubbles that you blow out of a little tiny, you know, like in a wedding bubbles? One person wanted puzzle pieces. One person had told me some candy. So I stuffed these tiny little piñatas with whatever they wanted and I sent them off to them. And then I said, “Listen, you're getting this piñata, here’s this piñata. Everybody was to write something on their piñata that they want to let go of. And so then after I did my piñata, everybody did their own piñata. Venegoni: Nice. Thomas: We got to witness everybody you know, release a little something... because there's always something to release! Venegoni: So where can listeners find the Shame Piñata Podcast? Thomas: Anyplace you get your podcasts, it should be there. Very, very wide distribution, and definitely iTunes, Spotify, and then you can go to shamepinata.com Venegoni: And they can also find you on Instagram, right? Thomas: Yes, thank you Instagram and Facebook, mostly Instagram. And Twitter. Venegoni: Yeah. Well, we'll have those links in the show notes. Well, Colleen, thank you for being here and chatting about ritual and initiation and change and release and power with me. It's been a pleasure. Thomas: It has been Thank you so much, Nick. Venegoni: To find the resources we discussed today, find the show notes at the queer spirit.com and if you enjoyed the show, remember to subscribe rate and review on iTunes. This will help us reach and support more queer people all over. Thanks for listening and see you next time. You’re listening to a special edition of the Shame Piñata podcast featuring a recent episode of The Queer Spirit Podcast. I'm very happy to have the opportunity to share this conversation with you. If you are not already subscribed to The Queer Spirit Podcast, you can find it on iTunes, Spotify, Stitcher, and Google Podcasts. You can also find the show on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. See the show notes for links. And now, as promised, here’s a quick preview of what’s coming up on Shame Piñata in the next few months. Upcoming episodes will focus on reinventing ourselves, going deeper, everyday magic, releasing cords with a parent, and disability as initiation. Our music is by Terry Hughes. If you like the show, please visit https://ratethispodcast.com/shamepinata. Learn more at shamepinata.com. I’m Colleen Thomas. Thanks for listening.  

This week, we give our first impressions on Volkswagen's all-electric ID.4 small SUV. We discuss the ID.4's unique styling, how it compares to the Ford Mustang Mach-E and Tesla Model 3 and Y, and how VW's Electrify America charging network will need to make improvements to compete with other EV charging infrastructures. We also discuss the predicted reliability of the recently announced Kia Carnival minivan, that replaces the Sedona in Kia's lineup. We also discuss the recall of Tesla's touchscreens, and whether these components have a short lifespan; how Consumer Reports calculates electric vehicle range; and advice on how to manage a lease when you REALLY want to be driving a different car. SHOW NOTES 1:20 - Volkswagen ID.4 first impressions 13:55 - Electrify America charging network 15:43 - Question #1: Ozzie from Los Angeles | How do online car reservations work? 19:09 - Question #2: Thomas | What’s CR’s predicted reliability for the new Kia Carnival minivan? 21:45 - Question #3: Chris | Will electric component wear become a problem on vehicles in the future? 23:58 - Question #4: Kevin from Cincinnati | How does CR test EV range? 25:20 - Question#5: Lamar from Chicago | Is it a good idea to trade in a 2011 Toyota Camry for a new lease on a  2021 Toyota Venza? LINKS: Preview: Sleek and Sporty 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 Electric SUV Revealed: https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/2021-volkswagen-id4-review/ First Drive: 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E Is a Thrilling New Breed: https://www.consumerreports.org/suvs/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-review/ Tesla Recalls Over 134,000 Vehicles for Faulty Screens: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/tesla-recalls-model-s-model-x-for-faulty-screens/

This week, we give our first impressions on Volkswagen's all-electric ID.4 small SUV. We discuss the ID.4's unique styling, how it compares to the Ford Mustang Mach-E and Tesla Model 3 and Y, and how VW's Electrify America charging network will need to make improvements to compete with other EV charging infrastructures. We also discuss the predicted reliability of the recently announced Kia Carnival minivan, that replaces the Sedona in Kia's lineup. We also discuss the recall of Tesla's touchscreens, and whether these components have a short lifespan; how Consumer Reports calculates electric vehicle range; and advice on how to manage a lease when you REALLY want to be driving a different car. SHOW NOTES 1:20 - Volkswagen ID.4 first impressions 13:55 - Electrify America charging network 15:43 - Question #1: Ozzie from Los Angeles | How do online car reservations work? 19:09 - Question #2: Thomas | What’s CR’s predicted reliability for the new Kia Carnival minivan? 21:45 - Question #3: Chris | Will electric component wear become a problem on vehicles in the future? 23:58 - Question #4: Kevin from Cincinnati | How does CR test EV range? 25:20 - Question#5: Lamar from Chicago | Is it a good idea to trade in a 2011 Toyota Camry for a new lease on a  2021 Toyota Venza? LINKS: Preview: Sleek and Sporty 2021 Volkswagen ID.4 Electric SUV Revealed: https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids-evs/2021-volkswagen-id4-review/ First Drive: 2021 Ford Mustang Mach-E Is a Thrilling New Breed: https://www.consumerreports.org/suvs/2021-ford-mustang-mach-e-review/ Tesla Recalls Over 134,000 Vehicles for Faulty Screens: https://www.consumerreports.org/car-recalls-defects/tesla-recalls-model-s-model-x-for-faulty-screens/

Time is a spiral - right now and always. And COVID time is a ride all its own. Whatever your experience of time has been in the past year, join us for a look at what time gives us and the benefits of letting go. We'll also explore our own personal connection to space and time so we're not so thrown by the world around us. Links: - What Happens When We Lose Our Social Rituals? - The Liminal Space – Embracing the Mystery and Power of Transition from What Has Been to What Will Be - KPFA's 2021 International Women's Day Programming Music by Terry Hughes Full Transcript Torres: First, I have to say, like, I don't... I know you were putting like the toilet paper tubes in a little area in the bathroom but I wasn't sure why and now you have them out on the table and I'm noticing they have like a... it's like a journal... it's really cool. This is my husband Rodrigo sitting with me and 47 empty toilet paper rolls. Torres: ...look, I have a collection of paper rolls with stuff written on them and I'm like... I used them as a way to mark our progression through the pandemic. Thomas: Here's the very first one. Torres: Oh, wow. Yeah, and we're, we're about there. It's almost a year now. Thomas: Yeah. It was March 18 I think when we went on lockdown. Torres: Wow. Thomas: So this is March 30 '20. And then there's a March from '21 there at that end. Torres: 3/2/21. That was two days ago. Thomas: So I dated them and I have them arranged them arranged by month so we can see how many we used each month. Torres: Ok. After a while of just dating them, I started also writing little journal entries on them. Thomas: What do you got there? Torres: Ah, let's see... let me grab one of these. 8/1/20: My podcast is... Thomas: Now Torres: Now available on Alexa. And it's written around the tube so it's like, you have to turn the tube around to read it. Thomas: Right. It's an interactive journal experience. Torres: Yes. It's a spiral with time. Time is a spiral - right now and always. And COVID time is a ride all its own. Whatever your experience of time has been in the past year, join me for a look at what time gives us and the benefits of letting go. We'll also explore our own personal connection to space and time so we're not so thrown by the world around us. This is Shame Piñata. I’m Colleen Thomas. Welcome to Shame Piñata, where we talk about creating rites of passage for real-life transitions. So how are you doing with time right now? Do you have enough of it? Too much of it? Do you feel lost or are you right on track? Do you know what day of the week it is? How sure are you about that? I've been having a hard time telling which way is up for about a year now, and it's disconcerting and I know I'm not the only one. I've heard several people say in the past year that it's difficult to focus, it's difficult to keep track of what month it is, difficult to gauge the passage of time during the day. Was that 15 minutes? Was that only two weeks ago? COVID has really been messing with our ability to keep track of time, mostly because it's a completely liminal space that's asked us to give up the framework we've used our whole lives. I found an article on liminality recently from Alan Seale, the Founder & Director of the Center for Transformational Presence. The piece was written in 2016. Seale, who could probably never have imagined how impactful his article would be in the early 2020's tells us that, "The word 'liminal' comes from the Latin root, limen, which means 'threshold.' The liminal space is the 'crossing over' space – a space where you have left something behind, yet you are not yet fully in something else. It's a transition space." Time is a super interesting thing. We feel secure when we build routines and expectations based on its constant presence. We mark time with concepts like generations, lifetimes, stages of life, annual patterns, weekly schedules, daily routines. Let's take a moment to consider what COVID has done with these concepts. It's become difficult to connect across generations which has kind of separated us from that intergenerational space that's so rich an important. The National Academy of Sciences recently published a study showing that life expectancy in the US went down in 2020 due to the pandemic, so there's a hit to our concept of what constitutes a lifetime. Along with that, the life expectancy reduction for the Black and Latino communities is 3 to 4 times that for the white community. That very statistic threatens to erase any gains we've made in equity on its own. Stages of life and the ways we mark them have also been affected. Graduations, weddings and other gatherings designed to mark the stages of life largely abandoned for almost a year. We're missing those rituals, really missing them. And lastly, as you know, our annual, weekly and daily patterns have completely changed. This is no small thing. I know you know this, and I just really want to say that whatever you're feeling right now, and whatever happened the last time you maybe suddenly just lost it over something small, you're not imagining things. This is weird. We didn't build our lives to make sense of this. An extended period of liminality with no warning and no psychological preparation is pretty brutal. COVID time to me feels like living inside a jar of sand and water that's being constantly shaken. Kinda like a snow globe, but without the pretty winter scene creating a calming sense of place. What does time do for us? Or to be clear, what does an organized sense of time do for us? I think it gives us stability and maybe even sanity. At the very least, it provides a lay of the land, a framework, something to base our expectations on. But maybe we need to even be more fine-tuned in discussing this. It's not that time isn't flowing normally right now, right? Two weeks is still two weeks during COVID, but the thing that's weird is it doesn't feel like two weeks. I thought that I would get used to the flow of time in COVID and eventually it wouldn't be so disorienting, but that actually hasn't happened. I think that's because we're still in the liminal, threshold space, and the big question "When will this be over?" still can't be answered. So there has to be some benefit from this weird time we're in, some way we can grow from it. We'll be right back. [MUSIC] Thank you for spending a few minutes of your day with us! If you enjoy listening to Shame Piñata, you can support the show by sharing with a friend or co-worker. We're into our 2nd season now (yay!) so all of our first season episodes are available on your favorite player and there might be one there that would really call to someone you know. And thanks! One thing we can definitely do is practice disconnecting from our attachments and embracing the feel of flow. We might realize we're already doing this multiple times a day once we start paying attention. We can also use this time to reframe our view of the world and how we show up in it. We can fight for making a better world, a more equitable world. I have a quote on my desk that I look at every morning from writer Roxane Gay, something she said a year ago when the pandemic started, "The rest of the world yearns to get back to normal. For Black people, normal is the very thing from which we yearn to be free." And this is a chance for all of us to change the way we live, who we connect with, what kind of media we consume, and whose words we surround ourselves with. We are being offered the chance to see things from a different angle. And as Alan Seale says, "Herein lies the power and the gift of the liminal space. The liminal space shakes us out of our habitual lives. It draws us out of what we have known, yet does not allow us to know what is coming next, or when. It’s the chrysalis stage for the caterpillar." So how do we keep track of time within liminality? Here are a few ideas. First, routine events can help: A daily walk, a weekly lunch, a monthly treat. These are things our subconscious mind can begin to rely on for comfort and stability. And they can even weave in some connection if we want that. There's number two, regular social connections. I've been lucky enough to be part of a family that's held weekly Zoom calls for almost a year now. Before COVID, visits were few and far between, but we just celebrated our 50th call last week. (I know because my uncle keeps track and he held up a big 5-0 sign as we began the call). If you don't have regular social connections in your life right now, consider looking online at the activities and groups you find interesting. So many things have moved online right now. It's possible to attend workshops and ceremonies on the other side of the world. And if you can't handle any more screen time, consider events that might allow you to call in rather than connect online and maybe take a walk while you listen. Third, nature is still happening! The Earth still turns every 24 hours, bringing the steady rhythm of sunrises and sunsets which can be very potent times to observe the majesty of life on our planet. And the moon still pulls on the waters in our bodies just as much as she pulls on the waters of the Earth. You can mark the month by her changing light and if you choose to honor the new moon or the full moon, know that there is a very rich history in that tradition. And of course there are the many sabbats around the wheel of the year as celebrated by the earth-based religions throughout time. Here in the northern hemisphere we're coming up to Spring Equinox later this month which will of course be the Autumnal Equinox in the southern hemisphere. And that brings us to the mid point between emptiness and fullness, a moment of balance. And balance brings us to ritual. [MUSIC] We can create rituals to mark the significant moment in our lives. As social psychologist Shira Gabriel says, "Rituals mark the passage of time as sacred." We can also use ceremony to center ourselves when things are topsy-turvy. Here's a simple ritual sketch we might use to find ourselves even within the flow of COVID time. So first we might create an intentional space by finding a still corner of the house or maybe taking a walk to find a quiet space in nature. Then we might take a few deep breaths and really feel into the body. What does it feel like to be sitting on this thing? What is the feeling of the air on my skin? How many sounds can I hear? Next we might get in touch with any spiritual guides, Goddesses, Gods or entities we work with or connect to the numinous however we experience it with gratitude and humility. Connected to this greater force, we might notice that our breathing has softened a bit and that we feel just a little bit calmer. We might then bring our focus to the wide field of time, seeing ourselves in the very center of it, complete and whole, grounded and calm. Noticing how it moves in spirals, how it dances around us and holds great complexity. And yet at the center of it, we are focused and deeply connected with our own self, our own presence. Sound healer Aleya Dao talks about the golden river of light that flows at our core. We might connect to that pure essence of self as we watch time go by like a movie. We might begin to sense the many ways that our core essence transcends time, transcends the grids our mind creates to make sense of it. We might come up on a younger version of ourselves and feel moved to share something we've learned with them. We might seek out an older version of ourselves and ask for some wisdom to make this COVID time easier. Mostly, we can rest in the deep knowing that all time is now and all space is here. This ceremonial experience of time transcends the limits we've known before, and allows us to heal in new ways. When we're ready, we can return to the space we're in, take a few deep breaths and maybe move our body around a little to come back to waking consciousness. And we might want to write down a thing or two of what we experienced in the open field of time. So how are you keeping track of time right now? What's working for you? Drop us a note on the shamepinata.com website and we will share your tips in an upcoming show. Catch a special edition of Shame Piñata this Sunday March 7 on KPFA's International Women's Day Programming. Interfaith Minister Tristy Taylor will speak on the importance of ceremony in women's lives and The UnBaby Shower she designed when she and her husband stopped trying to have children. That's at 1:30pm Pacific this Sunday, March 7 on KPFA.org. Our music is by Terry Hughes. If you like the show, please take a minute to rate and review it on Apple Podcasts. I’m Colleen Thomas. Thanks for listening.

Election recap Whoopi Recognizing the people that served Questions for Thomas: What made you Enlist in the Air Force? How do you maintain a stable Mindset when away from family or people in general. Most Random thing you have seen when deployed. Top 5 show characters Weekly Spends Vibe or naw --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/we-working-fampodcast/support

和 Thomas 第一次見面是我在世新大學的畢業製作 - 逃 What 源記。 第二次再見他就已經是作品入圍金鐘的強者了！ 四歲半開始學鋼琴 ，同時也會 #電腦編曲 #吉他 #鼓 的強者湯瑪士，對音樂有自己獨到的見解，他的工作哲學也是我十分欣賞的。這集是我第一次錄音超過兩小時，好料多多～也是第一次嘗試把內容分成上下兩個部分方便大家的收聽，在這集的第一部分我們討論到： 湯瑪士的音樂斜槓人生 錄音·編輯·混音的差異 ‍♀️ 當興趣成為了你的工作 做音樂的態度是怎樣的 喜歡、追蹤、分享 - 在路上 On the Road Email: freya.otr@gmail.com https://freya.soci.vip/ 跟我分享你最喜歡哪一部分吧～ Powered by Firstory Hosting

A discussion with Betty Ray on the three phases of a rite of passage & the tools they offer us for composting our grief. Music by Terry Hughes Links: Betty Ray Betty’s talk: We Must Initiate the Young People Arnold Van Gennep Lisa Miller of the Spirituality Mind Body Institute Menarche ritual Full transcript: Ray: And then there’s the whole midlife crisis and a porche and a girlfriend and whatever and all that, but we don’t really talk about what’s going on psychologically or spiritually. The transitions in our lives can bring up difficult feelings. It’s easy to see the lay of the land when we’re walking a straight path, but when the sidewalk ends, all kinds of confusion can come up. We may lose track of where we’re going and even start to question our values. How can ceremony help us through the transformations in our lives? Join me for a conversation with Betty Ray. This is Shame Piñata. I’m Colleen Thomas. Welcome to Shame Piñata, where we talk about creating rites of passage for real-life transitions. Today we’re going to slow it down and really look at rites of passage. Where did that term come from? What’s the anatomy of a rite of passage? And what can these ceremonies be used for? Our returning guest Betty Ray helps parents design customized ceremonies to help their youth go through a coming of age process, something that is deeply needed in American culture today. But she understands that all big transitions are worthy of the same process, whether it’s coming of age, approaching midlife, or even experiencing a significant loss. Betty and I had a conversation recently about using the rites of passage structure to design a healing ceremony. This could be any kind of healing ceremony, but I asked her how the rites of passage structure could be useful to design a ceremony for someone who had lost a child. Ray: I think the language rites of passage to me is more structural because rites of passage articulates a structure. There’s a three-part structure to rites of passage which is immutable and across all these different cultures. And that is really a benefit because that gives us a way in which we can design meaningful personalized rites of passage or healing rituals or however you want to describe it, there’s lots of ways. But I think the language around rites of passage for me has been to articulate this tripartate model which is so powerful. The first one, the first phase of totes of passage is called separation and this is from the work up in Arnold van Gennep and this was from 1909. So this guy a long time ago studied all these different cultures and found across cultures and across time and space that people were using the same three phases. And in fact, Joseph Campbell was really inspired by Van Gennep’s work and used his rites of passage work for the hero’s journey work which is amazing. Like I didn’t know that. Did you know that? My God, I was so excited about that, I was like “Oh, you’re kidding me!” That's so brilliant because it makes sense that rites of passage would make a good story. So the three steps are separation, where the initiate leaves the comforts of home. And whether that’s a young person going off to figure out who they are and discover their identity or a middle-age person who has to leave the sort of the structure that their life has become. So then the second phase is called liminality or I’ve also heard it referred to as metamorphosis and that’s the phase where once they’ve left there kind of betwixt and between as Victor Turner said. It’s this time when you don’t know what’s going to happen to you and that’s when this beautiful phase of ego death comes in. You don’t know. You die. Who you are, who you were, is no longer who you are or who you want to be. And then there’s design elements I can make liminality more or less... that’s a design challenge for those of us who want to do these. And then the reincorporation phase where the young person for the young middle/elder whoever comes back to wherever they were, to the original, you know, container and then takes what they’ve learned and bring it back to... so that they may be in their community once again. So there’s kind of a, you go off into the netherland, you go off to the wyrd world, the forest, you know, in our mythologies... all kinds of heroes journeys there. Yeah, so those three phases I feel like are really valuable as design elements. So that’s why I was talking about that. And we can talk about how to put this into someone who’s lost a child. How do we manage that, those feelings and the grief and the identity and all of the elements, the psychological elements, that go into holding that and how does one release that and reinvent themselves to be able to move forward and to not just be completely paralyzed by that loss? I think what I love about rites of passage, however you talk about them, is that they do offer tools for composting our grief, or our fear, or whatever - getting it out and turning it into something else. The transformative nature is really powerful. Thomas: What's the benefit in designing our own ceremonies? Ray: I think that our 21st century culture has become so individualized that certain kinds of rites of passage, the generic thing, just don't resonate. And so the benefit of a personalized sort of self designed DIY rite of passage or ceremony, transition ceremony, is that it can be something that is deeply meaningful to you. And I don't think these work if they're not deeply meaningful to you. So I would argue that there is no reason to do this if it isn't personalized. It's really important that it be meaningful, and that it come from a place that has such heart and meaning that it can that it does the sort of psychological lifting. When it is individualized, it's a creative process. It's really fun. It's really fun to think about what is the thing that nurtures me. It's really fun to think about what is the thing that I'm trying to heal. It's not fun - that's not fun. But it's healing. It's healthy to look at what is the thing that I want to let go of and how do I design something so that I can take back my power over this thing that has really hurt me or has humiliated me or that I want to leave behind. And that can be anything from a relationship to a mindset. You know? It's a lot different than talking about in therapy and I love therapy, I go to therapy. It's valuable. But again, getting into this psychic space of ego death, right? You’re kind of more open and vulnerable and you kind of like you, you're working with the programming language of the soul. And it's a lot deeper than just the cognitive stuff. We don't... cognitive is important. But this when you're working at the soul level, it's more potent. I love that way of describing it: that what we’re doing in ritual is working with the programming language of the soul. Does that make sense? We’re getting into an area where words don’t work, so it’s a little bit difficult for me to use words to describe it, but think of the rituals you’ve participated in in your life and remember what they felt like in your body. There’s a reason we do devotional ritualized practices in religious settings. Taking the bread, stepping into the Mikvah, casting a circle with the athame. These are physical things we do to connect, ritualistic soul-level actions we take. They are separate from our thoughts. When we hear the phrase “rites of passage” we may think of life stages such as coming of age, getting married, or having children. But life transitions are not always predictable or planned. A sudden illness or loss can knock us off our game and create a need to withdraw and heal. That’s where rites of passage or ritual can become invaluable. Ritual can provide a space of deep healing where our pain can be witnessed and honored. Ray: When I was about 25, I was involved in a bike accident. And I was not wearing a helmet and I was unconscious for a day or two. And I woke up in the hospital and I was all like, double vision, concussion - a real mess. And I got out of the hospital and I was like in bed, you know, I couldn't work, I was out. And I was just really just discombobulated. And I had this major double vision, and I was so like, I couldn't even, you know, literally couldn't see straight. And my mom called me, you know, and she said, "I would like to offer you a rite of passage at my house." And I was like, I don't know what that is but it has to be better than this wherever I am right now, this sucks. And I'm in bed and I would love to... sure whatever that is, do it up! And so she said, "Okay, I want you to invite somewhere between 6 and 10 women that are older that you look up to and that your respect," and I was like okay. And so I know she knows some cool people and I know a few cool people and I put together this list and they all came to her house at the winter solstice. And one of her friends had made me a paper machine a mask to wear for the ceremony. And it was like this beautiful thing that had a butterfly at the mouth and like flower up at the head and like these beautiful beads... and it was really... it was like, okay, so I put that on, we came to her house and there was a fire in the fireplace and all these women were sitting in a circle and I wore the mask. And they proceeded to each tell me a story, or read a poem, or kind of reflect me, or reflect the world so that I could kind of titrate it and understand it, some things about the world things that were, you know, through poetry and beautiful writings and pieces of art. And I just sat there and just absorbed this giant mirror of all these older women that were so wise and so loving and so interested in helping me heal. And I could just feel that energy and I'm wearing this mask. And then at the end of it, I had to, I had to write, based on everything I had heard, I had to write a series of commitments to myself, and like things I wanted to keep, things I wanted to nurture, things I wanted to deepen and explore. And then I had to write a series of things that I was ready to release. And she had a fire in the fireplace and at the time, I took the things I wanted to release and I put them in the fire. And we said a prayer. And then it was over and it was probably about 20 minutes. It was a short thing, maybe more - I don't remember maybe it must have been more - but anyway, it was really powerful to me. It was a really, to have all these older women hold me in that way taught me the power... and to and to experience the intentionality of that moment, the gravitas, the beauty, you know, she... the home was beautiful, it smelled nice, it was people you know, it was just a sensory experience of being in this kind of like other world. And the kind of the grace that I felt afterwards was just like, wow, I knew this was powerful! And I was really interested in doing more of it. I was in my mid 20s. And I remember kind of putting it out there and sort of doing a little bit of research after it was over, like kind of getting out of my depression hole and going down to the bookstore and researching a little bit. And I got this clear picture that this is too woo woo for the world. I can't do this now. It's not ready. It's too weird. And so I took a hard turn and I went into writing about popular culture, and, you know, teaching myself technology and HTML and like, I kind of went there. But it always stuck with me, it was always part of my soul. You know, it was like I was awakened. Wow, that's a cool thing! You can do this stuff and it really helps your soul! It helps you get out of, you know, self pity and suicidal ideation and you know, kind of loneliness and all this crap that I... and my physical thing didn't change. I still have the crazy double vision. But I was just, it was something that changed in my being. So, you know, but over the years, I sort of dabbled in it, you know, I kind of come back to it and I found it on the dance floor. And I really found like, dancing really helped me with the soul work and, you know, I would take an astrology thing here and they're like, kind of like closet woo woo, you know. And then I found this program at, you know, at Columbia, right, like, fancy-pants ivy league school has this weird little thing called the Spirituality Mind Body Institute. And it's actually not woo woo. It's a bunch of researchers who have found evidence for the benefits of spiritual exploration and spiritual experience. And I was like, okay, it's coming out. Now it's time. You're going in! So I took that program, I quit my job and I am now working on the rites of passage stuff. Lisa Miller, the woman who founded the SMBI, the Spirituality Mind Body Institute, has done all kinds of really interesting research on the power of intergenerational spirituality. So she's she says that when a young person has a container, a community, you know, who are holding them in a place where they can explore "lowercase s" spiritual practices they're so much healthier, they have a much, much higher rate of... a much lower rate of depression, anxiety, self harm suicide, and it's like 60-ish percent; it's ridiculously powerful. Yeah, yeah, it's a big deal and it's sort of free. So it's kind of, you know, it's not like you have to like build a new school or have a mountain that you know... going off to the mountaintop or anything, you can just change your practices. So it's important for families and communities to know about that. One of my favorite things about ritual is that it can transcend space and time. What I mean by that is if there is something that happened in our past - maybe a hard time we went through all alone or a significant personal accomplishment that got overlooked by our friends and family - we can actually do ceremony for it now and bring some healing to both the past and present versions of ourselves. That may sound strange if you are new to the concept of ceremony. But if you do this work regularly, you know what I’m talking about. My first experience with this was when I read a book called “Red Flower: Rethinking Menstruation” by Dena Taylor. It inspired me to create the menarche ceremony that I never had. Because ritual transcends space and time, it didn’t matter that the ceremony took place 15 years after my first period. My inner 12-year-old was fully present and felt fully welcomed into womanhood that day. I asked Betty to reflect on her past and think of any transition she wished she had had a rite of passage for. In answering my question, she spoke about a very personal subject. She spoke about healing from an abortion. I’m pausing to give you a heads up now in case this subject is close to home for you or in case you are listening with children. Thomas: Are there any experiences in your past that you wish you could have had it rite of passage for? Ray: There are several. I had an abortion and that was the biggest source of shame ever. And I had no way of... I mean, I had… it was very difficult to like make peace with that or understand, you know... nobody talked about it. So, having some sort of a, you know, there's an Amanda Palmer song about an abortion… it’s a ceremony and it's beautiful and I sobbed the first time I heard it. I think having that would have been a good idea. It would have been a way to heal that in a way that was good for me. Although what I did do is I ended up moving out to California from Minnesota to honor that. It was like, I'm not ready to be a mom here. I'm gonna to go do whatever it takes for me to know that I can be a parent. And that means going out to California and sort of following an instinct that there's work out there for me that will not only be meaningful and enrich me but it will help others. Like I wanted to be able to have to have an authentic sense of myself in the world and I just had no way of doing that where I was. So coming out here was sort of that for me, but it wasn't the same and it was certainly not witnessed. No one knew about it. You know, that was my own sort of thing. Yeah. Thomas: Wow. Thank you for sharing that. I've heard that in the blood mysteries for women, that that's one of the blood mysteris, you know, that that's got that same depth as, or is considered in some circles by some healers to be, in the same depth of you know, menarche, menstruation, menopause, birth, and abortion, miscarriage even, you know, just that it's that it's that really deep, really, really deep place. Ray: It is. Thomas: Yeah. Ray: Well, yeah very confrontative because it forces you to look at your life in a way of like you're at this giant fork, right? And like, what are the resources over here? What is my capacity? What does that what does that life look like? And what is the life look like on the other direction? And they’re… you can't go through it unchanged because it causes such reflection and it causes such anguish and it's so... it's very complicated. So it definitely, you know, I think it just transforms you and so for me moving out here was like, “Thank you, Little Spirit.” You know, it was all in the attempt to, well, to be able to welcome that little spirit back someday. And I don't know that I did. I don't know if my daughter is the same little spirit, but certainly there is a little spirit now too. Thomas: Wow, thank you. I’m so very grateful to Betty for giving us the low down on the anatomy of a rite of passage and for sharing with us so vulnerably. I encourage you to think back and notice if there’s anything in your past it might have been helpful to have a rite of passage for. It’s not too late! Together with a close group of friends and family, people who can take your healing seriously and honor your story, you can go back and have the transition witnessed. Betty Ray is a speaker, author, and consultant who uses design thinking to co-create meaningful rites of passage to help her clients navigate transitions. Learn more about her work at bettyray.net. If you’re a parent or work with youth, be sure to catch her talk “We Must Initiate the Young People” on YouTube. Check our show notes for links to that plus more information about Arnold Van Gennep and also Lisa Miller of the Spirituality Mind Body Institute. Our music is by Terry Hughes. If you like the show, please take a minute to review it on Apple Podcasts. Learn more at shamepinata.com. I’m Colleen Thomas. Thanks for listening.

If you and your partner are arguing more as you approach your wedding, there’s nothing wrong with you. There's also nothing wrong with asking for support. Landis Bejar shares how Aisle Talk in New York City is making therapy a shame-free option for couples approaching the big day. Music by Terry Hughes Inspired to create something for yourself? Visit https://ever-changing.net/ Links: Aisle Talk: https://www.aisle-talk.com Why Stress When You Can See a Wedding Therapist (NYT): https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/03/fashion/weddings/why-stress-when-you-can-see-a-wedding-therapist.html Growing in Faith Group to Celebrate B'Not Mitzvah (Augusta Chronicle): https://www.augustachronicle.com/lifestyle/20200214/growing-in-faith-group-to-celebrate-bnot-mitzvah ----------- Full Transcript Bejar: Why do we need this? We're getting married. We're... you know, it's so early for us to be reaching out for ... people think of couples therapy as being the last straw or the rock bottom or something like that Landis Bejar has a job you may not have ever heard of before. She is a wedding therapist. In her room, individuals and couples plan for the big day by setting goals and processing the experience of the transition. Her blog offers tips on wedding therapy themes such as defending something you never meant to defend. Join me for a conversation with Landis Bejar. This is Shame Piñata. I’m Colleen Thomas. Welcome to Shame Piñata, where we talk about creating rites of passage for real-life transitions. Today we're exploring the idea of wedding therapy. Did you know that wedding therapists are a thing? I had no idea until I read an article by Alyson Krueger in the The New York Times called "Why Stress When You Can See a Wedding Therapist." I learned that there are therapists who not only specialize in life transitions but that some specialize in weddings specifically. Landis Bejar is one of those therapists. She's a Licensed Mental Health Counselor and she started her own practice called Aisle Talk two years ago in New York City. In addition to the New York Times, Aisle Talk has been featured in Brides magazine, Business Insider and The Atlantic. Landis is super personable and passionate about her work. She walked me though how Aisle Talk came to be and answered my questions about what makes weddings such a potent time for everyone involved. She is also a big proponent of removing the stigma from therapy. She regularly attends bridal fairs to get her work out into the world, bring it out of the shadows, and make it a shame-free option for couples. She stresses that there's nothing wrong with you if you are your partner are arguing a bit more as you approach the wedding, or if you communication isn't quote-unquote perfect. You're actually doing a monumental thing in rearranging your own life and potentially the lives of your family. Landis shared with me the moment the idea for her practice was born. Bejar: The sort of aha moment came up in the midst of an argument in a bridal dress salon between my mother-in-law and my sister-in-law. My sister-in-law was trying on dresses. My mother-in-law was commenting on how she looked in them. And I was sort of there for moral support. And my mother-in-law said something that did not sit well with my sister in law about how a certain dress fit and that sparked an argument between the two of them. So I sort of as the, you know, off duty therapist in the room said something to sort of smooth things over and kind of join them together and let each, essentially let each of them feel heard, which is a lot of what we do and family therapy, and kind of realized that, you know, this was not intended to be hurtful It was not intended to, you know, be taken in the way that it was and sort of got everyone on the same page. And in the wake of that, my mother-in-law sort of jokingly commented, "Good thing that we brought the therapist along. How come you're not a bridal therapist?" Which I thought at first was very funny. And a lot of people have made comments like that to me over my career, with a different specialties, whatever it was I was doing at the time, whether it was I was, you know, holding a baby or playing with an animal or something like that. "You should be a baby therapist...You should be a dog therapist." different things of that nature. But there was something about this comment where I sort of did have one of those aha moments. And I said, wait a second, does that exist? Because I've been a bride before and I know that there's lots of psychological and dynamic pieces that are involved in planning a wedding and thinking about getting married and there should be bridal therapists. So that was kind of moment where I started thinking about this as an actual business and some work that I could be good at. Thomas: Why is it that the deep-rooted family problems can come out of the woodwork at weddings? Bejar: First of all, like weddings are not new, even though the way in which we might experience them feels like it's ever changing and ever evolving. It's a really long standing tradition. And so I think that with that comes lots of ways to interpret that tradition and that can be just very different in one family to another. It can be really different from one individual to another and it can be really, really different from one couple as compared to each of their family of origin. So we have this thing that like has been around for so long, but everybody interprets it differently. And so I think that that's one set of circumstances that sort of informs, you know, how that can cause some some family issues to arise along that, along that plain, you know, weddings are also culturally informed. So there's cultural expectations, there's generational expectations about how this milestone is recognized. And it's a milestone not only for an individual person, and not only for a couple, but many view it as a milestone for our family. So I'm kind of, you know, those I feel like those two things are like a venn diagram where there's separate things and then overlapping things. And then on top of that, it's a marker of time. You know, and with any sort of marker of time or what I call in my work, life transition, all kinds of stress comes up because as we mark time, and as we move from one life state to another through a life transition, we ostensibly are grieving the previous state in order to make space for the new state. And that can be challenging both for the person who's moving through it and the people surrounding that person. So if we remove ourselves from the wedding example, we have like a mom sending her five year old to kindergarten, a mom might cry. And it's not because she doesn't she's not happy that her child is ready for the next step in their life that she might be grieving those toddler years or those years where she spent more time with the child and now is kind of watching them gain their independence and moving into this next state. And same reason why we cry at graduations, you know, and you know all of those things, so that comes up during weddings as well. And the other thing that I would say is that like, there's a lot of pressure for this to be the happiest day of your life. And so when you have all of these other sort of variables coming up that would naturally challenge our emotions and psychological states and family dynamics, the first sign of distress feels really upsetting and maybe extra upsetting because of the pressure that we're all supposed to be so happy. And I think that that kind of creates a little bit of a pressure cooker for some of these things to come out in really aggressive ways that we're not expecting. Thomas: You had spoken before about the taboo of therapy. It sounds like you, you address that in your work. Bejar: I do try to address that in my work first by acknowledging how hard it might be for somebody to reach out to me. And also to make my practice one that is trying to sort of in its presentation and where we show up, whether it's a bridal show or a workshop or you know something like that, but just in by by showing up and not being sort of in the dark corners of the internet, we're modeling that it's okay to seek out therapy. It's okay to seek out therapy during this time, and things like that. Thomas: That's wonderful. And specifically, how does that taboo relate to folks are planning to get married? Bejar: Yeah, I think that I think it's like that image of like, if somebody is sort of operating either consciously or unconsciously from this place that there is a taboo around therapy, then people might relate to either themselves, or maybe the perception of others that if you're going to therapy, you have hit rock bottom or things are really dire or things are really terrible. So, if one or more of the partners is operating under that assumption or they feel like people around them are operating under that assumption, that can be really disheartening to think that you've hit rock bottom when you're just about to get married, which is certainly not true, not true most of the time, of course, could be true, I'm sure in many cases, but it's not a requisite to seeking out therapy. Thomas: Are you putting that message out there to help combat the taboo of therapy around the couples that are getting married in some way? Bejar: Yeah, I think that in a like you know wider brushstroke when we're talking to like more people like then we're doing it sort of inherently in our actions rather than our words, right? So like showing up at an expo and being like, you know, at a table in between your, you know, the personal trainers and the bridesmaids dresses and the make up artist, is like your wedding therapist. I think that showing up in that way is our sort of like walking the walk rather than talking the talk is like we don't feel ashamed about it. We want to tell you what we're here for. We want to tell you the things that are very common to experience during your wedding planning and if that relates to you, come on over like we are here to support you during this process. And I think that is sort of like our, our walking the walk of de-stigmatizing therapy to not sort of be in the closets and in the shadows and be very present amongst the people the other people who help you with your wedding planners or your you know, all the things that you do as you're preparing to get to get married. And then maybe more on a micro level is when we're working with people, that's the first thing that we're addressing. We're saying, you know, it's really hard, you know, we're seeing how hard it is in the midst of whether it's our own personal stigma that we carry, or just societal societal stigma, we're acknowledging how powerful it is that they're seeking, seeking support in spite of that and normalizing for so many people that this is so common, and it happens so often, and there's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing pathological about you because you're arguing a little bit more during this time or you're having difficulty with communication. You're collaborating on a big event together, not just the two of you but also incorporating the needs and wishes of your two families and trying to strike a balance between that. And you're on the precipice of committing to a life together and there's a lot of pressure in that. You know, and you're mourning, maybe a loss of your singlehood, which nobody wants to talk about. So we're really doing a lot to sort of normalize that experience and the stress that inherently comes with that. Thomas: What is the experience like for you, when you're at the bridal fairs? How to couples relate to you? Bejar: It's interesting, I think that like I do notice a difference between... like kind of across generations. So I noticed that some of the moms in the group or some of the maybe older generations will have, will have like, definitely some humorous reactions. I've definitely had like some older folks come by and just say, you know, kind of like laugh or giggle or say, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe... They think of everything lately!" Which is totally true and I totally I acknowledge that but I also think that in that is maybe layered with some discomfort perhaps with the idea of seeking therapy for all of these different reasons. But by and large, the reaction is, "Oh my god that is so needed. What a great business!" A lot of times we have people who are stopping by who maybe are accompanying a bride and they say, "Oh my gosh, what I would have given for this during my wedding planning!" or "My family needed this so much," or reactions like that. And then the other reactions are from the other vendors who have probably subbed in as surrogate therapists or just support people as they've been closer to the stress up until this point and wedding history and have taken on the brunt of, you know, family feuds or emotional breakdowns or things like that. And they're oftentimes the most supportive of this mission because that's not what they are contracted to do necessarily, or what they feel comfortable with, or what they're trained for any of those things. Right. So how cool would it be to actually have a trained therapist on staff, if you will, to help you navigate the stresses of the ceremony - not only your stresses, but those that might be coming up from the folks around you? I'm hoping this wedding therapy idea is one that catches on. May we all have all the support and witnessing we need as we go through our life transitions. Thomas: So on the show, we talk a lot about life transitions, and we've been focused on creating rites of passage for those as, as we feel called to do that, whatever we feel that urgency when something is really intense, and we, we really want to honor a transition with ceremony. And we also talk about rites of passage that we had, that we had in our life or that we wished we'd had in our life. And so I'm curious if there are any transitions in your life that you wish you could have had a rite of passage for. Bejar: Yeah, I don't know if I've ever really like articulated this. But when I was in like, middle school time, so like seventh eighth grade, I had a lot of friends who were having Bar and Bat Mitzvahs. And I think, for me as someone who has one Jewish parent but wasn't raised with any sort of formal religion in my family growing up, it was a time where I sort of long to be part of something a little bit more structured and I saw my friends kind of going through that rite of passage and all that comes with it. It's not just a day but it's, you know, years of practice and study and understanding and sacrifice in terms of like, the time and the energy and when you're, you know, a really young person, and you're often working on like a special philanthropic project, you're learning a new language, you're sort of performing that new language in front of other people, you're interpreting it, you're doing a lot of things that probably at the time I was like, interested in certain aspects, but as I've gotten older, I'm think it's really interesting, sort of rite of passage for a very young person and like, tasked with a lot of responsibility. Then I guess 10-15 years later, I was, you know, thinking about getting married to my partner and my person who I found and I was marrying somebody who is Jewish and who longed for a partner who was Jewish and might have converted or being if they weren't already either converted, or in my case sort of affirm their Jewish identity and gone through a process of like, doing that so that we could, you know, raise a Jewish family and things that I probably wasn't able to do without having the Jewish upbringing and just having my one Jewish parent. So, I think that, you know, that was a very special time for me going through that process before getting married. And they think that it's really interesting that as you asked me this question, the rite of passage of the Bar or Bat Mitzvah that I am immediately think of feels very, feels like it fits really well because ultimately, like I did sort of go through this conversion or affirmation of my Jewish identity that has been very important to me. And I feel like as a part of that work that I did when I was an adult, I reflected on many moments in my life where I longed for like being more a part of that community and I feel like as a part of getting married, I got to do that in a more formal way that I had longed for as an individual and then kind of gone through a process in my, you know, planning to get married. Thomas: So you went through the Bat Mitzvah process, but when you were older? Bejar: It was a conversion process. It was different than the Bat Mitzvah, but it feels like it feels very relevant that I guess that was something that I longed for, and later sort of affirmed my Jewish identity in a different way and sort of this adult way, which you can have a Bar or Bat Mitzvah at any age, and it's something that I kind of think about but it is actually quite more involved than the conversion - which is are already very involved, it's like a year long process - but the Bat Mitzvah... which is like amazing, because this is something that I try to wrap my mind around doing now and and like, you know, 12 and 13 year-olds are doing it at that age and I feel even more impressed by it now as an adult. But yeah, it’s still something I think about doing today but haven't. But I feel like it just fits in with the sort of this path that I sort of took on a little bit later in life. Thomas: There was actually an article in the Austin Chronicle this week about women in the fullness of their womanhood, no longer, you know, pre-teens and teenagers who are going through kind of a Bat Mitzvah experience. They call it a B'Not Mitzvah. Bejar: Oh, that’s cute! That's so cute. Well, when I was doing my conversion classes, there was actually a class there was simultaneously going on in the synagogue which was women who were, you know, fully in their womanhood, not teenagers or pre-teens, and they were all doing a Bat Mitzvah class together. And so I was in my class over here which was different, but I would sort of look over and say that would be something that I do you later on down the road. Thomas: Yeah well, thank you so much for this conversation it’s been so inspiring to talk with you today. Bejar: Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to talk about these things. I feel like things are all things that I love to talk about and I love to reflect on and are so important to me. And I love the kind of context of really focusing in on the transition of the ritual and how that is impacted by all things that, you know, my specific work is impacted by in terms of stigma and pressure and all of those things, so I really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you. Landis Bejar is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in private practice in New York City. Her practice is called Aisle Talk. Aisle talk focuses on helping individuals and couples cope through the stresses of planning a wedding and getting married through therapy and counseling. Learn more at https://www.aisle-talk.com. That's aisle DASH talk.com. Our music is by Terry Hughes. If you like the show, we'd love it if you'd share it with a friend. Learn more at shamepinata.com. I’m Colleen Thomas. Thanks for listening.

Betty Ray walked to the top of Bernal Hill at the turn of the millennium. She brought three things with her: a candle, her checkbook, and a ring. Music by Terry Hughes Inspired to create something for yourself? Visit https://ever-changing.net/ Transcript Ray: Did that make sense? Should I say it again? Okay, I think that when a ritual is designed well, it is designed to make space for the soul to flourish and to show up. Betty Ray uses design thinking to help individuals and communities create meaningful rites of passage to navigate transitions. She’s a recent graduate of the Spirituality Mind Body Institute at Teachers College, part of Columbia University. She’s currently developing a program called Human Nature Academy to work with adolescent rites of passage. Join me for a conversation with Betty Ray. This is Shame Piñata. I’m Colleen Thomas. Welcome to Shame Piñata, where we talk about creating rites of passage for real-life Transitions. We are going to tackle two ideas today. The first is to explore the benefits of ritual - what it does and how it can be useful to us. We will reflect on some of the ways our Ancestors used ceremony and look at the benefits ritual can bring us today. The second thing we will touch on is a certain kind of ceremony you may not have heard about before. As you know, this season on Shame Piñata we are focusing on weddings and commitment ceremonies. There have been an increasing number of people over the past decade who have decided to commit to themselves instead of, in the absence of, or alongside the presence of a partner. It's called self-commitment or self marriage and it’s gaining popularity. So let's dive in. In our first episode, we talked about the power of ritual to create a container for the strong emotions that come with transition. Getting married, losing a loved one, the birth of a child, the end of a relationship... these are all times when our way forward changes, the future in front of us is totally new, where the sidewalk ends, as poet Shel Silverstein said. Who we were won't work anymore, we must become someone new: we must become the husband, the mother, the single person... The ceremonies that we turn to at these times help mark the beginning of these transitions, but they can be limited. Weddings, for example, can focus so heavily on joy that they block out any feelings of grief or loss which are a normal and healthy part of any transition. And funerals can feel stilted and solemn, laying expectations that grief is only appropriately expressed in tears, when in fact healthy grief shows up in a wide variety of ways. We can work with the traditional rituals as we have inherited them, making them deeper, richer, and more personalized for our own needs. We are 100% capable of this, because ritual is an inherent part of being human. Here's Betty Ray. Ray: So I feel like ritual is one of those things that has been in human experience since we were... since we were putting pigment on cave walls. I mean, ritual has been part of the way that humans have oriented ourselves. I mean, I think the earliest rituals were really a response to a chaotic world, and to uncertainty and unpredictability. And rituals gave people a sense of regularity and structure and they served to bind the community together, that we would all come together at the harvest, or we would come together to sow the seeds in the crops or the hunt or... you know, as young people came of age. There was a way for communities to reaffirm their strengths and their bonds and it was a way to sort of stay connected to the larger world in a way that felt safe. Because, you know, obviously when you don't know why the sun is you know, when the moon goes in front of the sun and, like, it's going dark, and you don't know why that's happening, that's pretty scary! So, you know, having stories and narratives and mythologies and rituals to kind of keep communities bonded together was a way to keep them safe and and obviously propagate. Rituals have been going on forever. So we have, you know, there's been a lot of study about rituals and research about the role of them and you know... And that one thing that I think is so interesting is that we know from all the research that that rituals have been, like, literally from every country, in every culture, and every society since the beginning. Like we just do it, it's human, it's in our DNA. I don't know if it's in our DNA, that's not a scientific quote, but I mean, they are really powerful and people do them and, and why? Why is that? Why do people do that? I mean, that's, you know, that's exactly your question. But I think it's, I do think it's about helping us feel safe and connected with one another. Rituals offer people a structure amid chaos. And whether that’s back in the day when we didn’t know if a mountain lion was going to come over the hill, or today when all of our systems are falling apart, you know, that when we have a sense of familiar.... The mark of a ritual is that it is rigid, it’s familiar. You do the thing as it’s always been done and you do it with an intention to devote yourself to that practice so that devotional angle... that devotional element of, like, I am surrendering myself to do this thing that is bigger than me - is healthy for people, to have a sense of right relationship with things that are larger than us. I think that when we have a ritual that is designed to help us grieve something, or help us celebrate life, or help us with more life transitions - and this gets us a little bit into rights of passage - but those rituals are really... there’s an element of them in which ego death is facilitated. We are no longer in control. It is not our thing we’re pushing through, it is a larger thing. That, you know, when you’re going to a ritual space, you are suddenly in a place that is less driven by, you know, sort of cognitive, intellectualized approach and it becomes more of a soul practice. And I am really interested in the soul practice because I think the soul the healthy element of rituals to my mind as a nurtures the soul. And we are desperate in our 21st-century hyper-mediated, hyper technology-focused, environmental crisis place, we need this more than anything in my view. Thomas: You gave me chills. Ray: Good! I really think... I mean it’s so important, it is so important, because the soul is smart. You know, the soul can really help us, the soul has a way for us to.... the soul knows a lot and it’s very wise. But Parker Palmer said once that was that the soul is like a wild animal. It isn’t something that you can be like, “Hey, soul, come on and party with us!” or like you know, “Come on, I’m going to make you come out!” It’s a wild animal and it’s fragile... Cultivating a place for the soul is an art and it needs certain kinds of tending. It needs to be welcomed and know it’s going to be okay and be able to express its wildness which means it’s not always going to be pretty. We live our day-to-day with so little awareness of the soul. We are so much about like get in the car and go to work, and I’ve got to figure out all the things I have to go to my day and I’ve got to write this and I’m going to talk to these people and we’re just in our heads and in our doing mode. And rituals provide a space for us to be in a more creative, deeper, messier-in-a-sense soul world where the soul is able to come out and be curious be aware. And we can listen to our souls with more clarity we can hear it more clearly because the ritual provides a buffer or a boundary between the sort of the crazy-of-every-day and increasing crazy-of-every-day. Rituals give us a quiet, centering practice that we can rely on to be nurturing to that soul part of ourselves. Self-commitment can be defined in many ways. At its heart, it means committing to ourselves first, being our own chosen one. It's mainly a women's thing right now, but I'm hoping that will change. Women commit to themselves in many situations: after a breakup, if they are tired of putting their energy into looking for someone, when they are about to get married. Ceremonies can be as simple as putting on a ring at a self-marriage workshop or as elaborate as planning a full wedding. Betty took the opportunity to design a self-commitment ceremony for herself about 20 years ago. As this episode will be airing on Valentine's Day, we thought this was a wonderful time to share her story. Ray: Oh my gosh. Well, I wasn't planning on having a self commitment ceremony actually. It was the end of the millennia. It was December 1999. And I had been involved with this conversation with this guy who I had had this like massive crush on for a long time. And I was really, like, we were supposed to go down to Mexico to a Mayan pyramid. We were gonna hang out down there and I was gonna conceive a baby. This is really embarrassing. And that was my grand plan. And anyway, he like at the last minute was like, "No, I don't want to do that,” but he didn't really tell me and I was embarrassed and I was like, and mostly I was just like, heartbroken and embarrassed and I felt really stupid. And so on New Year's Eve 1999, I had bought this ring that had the drama faces on it, you know, tragedy and the comedy. And I had this idea to go up to the top of Bernal Hill with my ring... and I brought my checkbook and a candle. And I, I kind of had an idea that I was just gonna... so I got up there I wasn't sure what I was going to do with all this stuff, but I knew I wanted the ring because I was... and that was part of the design. So I got up to the top of Bernal Hill and I wrote myself a check to myself and I wrote a check to him. And I lit the candle and I burned the check to him, and "I'm not going to spend any more time on you, dude." And the check to myself, I fold it and I put it like near my heart... I guess I was wearing... I put it in my bra, frankly. And then I took the ring and I made a statement. I made a statement as San Francisco was my witness as I was up on the top of Bernal Hill and it's kind of this cloudy, foggy you know gross San Francisco winter day. Kind of at the at the winding down of this millennia, you know, and so I had this sort of weight, this gravitas of the sense of this millennia is ending and I'm committing to myself for the new millennia to not get into drama with men anymore. And this was not the first time, this is clearly a little bit of a pattern. I don't know if that's clear, but it was totally a little bit of a pattern. So I took the ring and I put it on my left finger. And I said that I will now... I now am committed to myself and I'm marrying my own drama so that I don't need to marry it externally. I don't need to bring my drama... I don't need to create it externally and I certainly don't want to be engaged in a relationship with it anymore. I don't want to do that. That's done, adios. And so I, I finished and I blew out the candle and I went back home and I went out and I had an incredible New Year's Eve. And I was just like, I was in such gratitude like, let that guy go! And I just, you know, I could feel dancing... I was dancing and I just, you know, I danced him out... and you know, it was a way for me to reclaim my power. It was a way for me to reclaim my sense of agency about myself and to not be so, you know, not to outsource my sense of self and my sense of purpose and strength. And so it was a really, really important thing to do. And I'm so glad I did it! And I wore that ring forever, just about until I got married. Now I have a different one. Yeah, but anyway, so that was yeah, that was my self commitment. So it wasn't really a conscious decision. It was more of a, like, I gotta heal, I feel stupid, and I'm humiliated, and I'm embarrassed and I need to take care of myself because I did something really dumb. Thomas: I love that. Ray: Yeah. It was fun. It was powerful. Thomas: Wow. Wow, I love you're like, I took my checkbook. Like oooh, what's gonna happen with the checkbook? This is really interesting. Ray: Well, it was it was, you know, it was a symbol of you know, back in the day, right, people had checkbooks we probably don't have that anymore. Do you have a checkbook? I don't even have a checkbook. Anyway. Well, you know we had... that it was a way for me to... it was a metaphor for my money, which is power. Like it's my... it was a metaphor for my, my life force, which I was... I just... I had really stupidly given up and just embarrassingly so because, I mean, I'm sure he was like, "Who is this crazy stalker woman that wants to go to a Mayan pyramid with me and have my baby?" I don't know. It's kind of funny, but I don't know if it's like the long term, like realistic most realistic, you know sane thing to do. Thomas: What exposure had you had to the idea of self commitment before your own ceremony? Ray: I don't think I had any exposure to it. I would... Again, I had come to ritual through my mom and my mother and her use of ritual and I knew that having rituals could catalyze change. And I had done several other rituals over the course, since my rite-of-passage-one that were sort of self-related, but they weren't self commitment - that was different. So I don't know. I mean, maybe it's... I think, I honestly think these ideas float around the ether, and that we pull them down when we need them. Thomas: What are the benefits that you feel the ceremony brought to you short term and long term? Ray: Well, the short term ones were that I just had the best New Year's Eve ever, you know. The long term benefits were that I had a catalyst to... an experience that helped me catalyze a change in my attitude towards myself and my relationships. That it was an intentional taking back of my power and releasing him so that I could be more, you know, healthy and you know, all the stuff that you want to be when you're not obsessed with someone. You know, I think the long term effects were very real and that I feel like when, you know, I would get kind of like, "Oh, I wonder what it's doing," or, you know, I would just take it back and be like, "Dude, you just had this thing. You wrote that check. You can't... you know, that thing's burned! He doesn't have that check anymore, you've got the check, and that's not going to him!” So there was a way in which the just the gestures and the actions... the ring, I would look down at it and I would see it, you know, and I would I would maybe, you know, another several years later, you know, there was kind of a beginning of another relationship and I could feel the drama alert. "Oh, no. Oh, no, no, no! Look at that ring, look at what you got on! No, no, no, run away!" Like it is not... So I think that part of it was the the act but also the gestures, the ring, the checkbook, that that really concretized it for me so that, it helped... it was a tool that I would rely on as I kind of navigated through my, you know, some of these more treacherous waters which weren't as treacherous by that point. So the waters became less treacherous too, because I was more like... my identity was less about, "Oh, you need this kind of man or, that kind of person, you need to be in a relationship." I was single, I was happily so. It was really... it helped support that single exploration for me. Very, very, very helpful. Thomas: How does being married or committed to yourself mix with being married or committed to somebody else? Ray: That's a great question. Being married and committed to myself makes me a way better committed partner in reality because being committed to myself, in the way in which I'm committed to myself, means I'm more authentically myself and I'm not... I don't hand over core parts of myself for my need for approval, or my need for someone to tell me what to do, or my need to be in control, whatever those needs are, like I'm a much more whole partner as a result. So I can bring elements of myself my sucky or more annoying sides as well as my, you know, loving and compassionate sides in with more authenticity and more integrity. So it actually made me a much better partner. Yeah, I see no conflict there at all. It makes you a better person. When you're committed to yourself, you're much better. You have much more reserves to give, you can give a lot more, you have much more resources to give. And that makes you a better partner. I actually had a version 2.0 of that ceremony. When I met him, the man, I met him for coffee a couple years ago. And after he... and he's a writer, and he's got you know, he's just a really interesting person and very, you know, all the things that I loved about him I got to see, you know, and it was really fun and I finally had my act together. And after he left, I made a conscious decision to go sit in the chair that he was sitting in and to like, take back the energy that I had given him long ago. So I did a deeper dive. So I think we can so I guess what I'm saying is that we can always revisit our older commitments ceremonies and our older earlier ceremonies. We can we can ceremony anything. I mean, it's, you don't want to you don't want to one doesn't want to, but we can if we need to. Betty's story speaks to the power of ritual to help us gather our full selves back up from the chaos of chasing other people, which sometimes - can happens even when we aren't meaning to do that! There are so many ways we can get lost in the idea of a partner completing us. It’s kind of the water we swim in if you think about it. And when we find someone, it’s easy to inadvertently toss our authentic dreams and goals out of the boat to make room for the daily events that come with being in a relationship. This can be especially true for women given the historical importance of marriage for the women in our lineages. Committing to ourself can be a way to ground back into who we are at our core - our core values, core beliefs, core essence. Those are gems to be nurtured and honored. Betty Ray is a 2020 Mira Fellow where she is developing a program called Human Nature Academy. Before this, she spent the better part of 10 years working in senior leadership roles at the George Lucas Educational Foundation. Learn more about her work at bettyray.net. Our music is by Terry Hughes. If you like the show, please share it with a friend and leave a review on Apple podcasts. That is the very best way you can support this new baby show. Learn more at shamepinata.com. I’m Colleen Thomas. Thanks for listening.

Aren’t their errors in the Bible? Can we trust it? Have you ever heard of the “Lost Gospels” – Like the Gospel of Thomas? What are they? And who decided which books to include in the Bible? Was there a conspiracy to eliminate books? Pastor Peter unpacks these questions and more, in a fun and informative way. (Josh. 1:8)

My guest on today’s show is a senior cloud advocate for Microsoft.  As a member of the Azure engineering team, he engages with the community and customers around the world to share his knowledge and collect feedback to improve the Azure platform.   Prior to working for Microsoft, he was a Lead Architect for a consulting and engineering company in Switzerland.   EPISODE DESCRIPTION: Phil’s guest on today’s show is Thomas Maurer. He works for Microsoft as a senior cloud advocate. In that role, he engages with customers and the community to use the cloud to transform their businesses. He is part of the Azure engineering team. Thomas has been awarded the Microsoft MVP (Most Valuable Professional) Award, several times. He is also an accomplished public speaker and the author of two books. Over the years, he worked as a software and systems engineer for several companies. Prior to joining Microsoft, he was the Lead Architect for a Swiss engineering and consulting firm. KEY TAKEAWAYS: (1.15) – So, Thomas can you tell us a bit about your career before joining Microsoft. Thomas explains that he started his IT career straight after he left school. He began by working for a firm of consultants, then a service provider, before returning to consulting and engineering. He ended up working a lot with Visual Studio. So, when he got the chance to be a Microsoft Cloud Advocate he couldn’t resist saying yes. Thomas really enjoys the fact that the role keeps him close to the community, attending events, learning and helping others to do more. (4.18) – Can you please share a unique career tip with the I.T. career audience? Thomas says it is very important to learn to stay positive. Things are bound to go wrong. Maintaining a positive attitude helps you to get through those times and make what you are working on a success. Over the years, Thomas has noticed that negativity attracts negative things. The mindset of the workforce has a huge impact on a company. Of course, at times, things get tough, but being optimistic keeps you going and takes you through it. (6.26) – Can you tell us about your worst career moment? And what you learned from that experience. Many years ago, Thomas spotted a job he really wanted. But, he just assumed he was not experienced enough to land the role, so he did not apply. Instead, he set his sights lower and joined another company. When he rang a friend to tell them about his new job, they thought he was crazy for taking it and told him that they could have helped him to land the job he really wanted. They said so in a nice way, but it was still a bit deflating. At that point, Thomas realized that not applying for his dream job was a mistake. It felt pretty bad, but he had said yes, so he started working for the other company. Only then did he realize how big a mistake he had made. They did not have the right type of projects for his skill set and what he wanted to learn. So, for a few months, his career progression slowed. Fortunately, not long afterwards, he was offered his dream job. But, he played things cool and told them he wanted to sleep on it. This gave him time to think and be certain that he was not making a mistake. In the morning, he took the job, which turned out to be one of the best decisions he has ever made. (10.30) – What was your best career moment? Of course, landing his dream job was a big moment. So, was getting his first Windows Insider MVP award, in 2012. He is especially proud of the fact that one of the chairmen nominated him. Thomas loves working with the community, speaking, blogging and helping others. But, it felt great to have his efforts recognized. Over the years, Thomas has won several MVPs and other awards. (14.39) – Can you tell us what excites you about the future of the IT industry and careers? The never-ending variety of the projects you end up working on keeps things exciting and interesting. But, Thomas thinks the changes cloud computing has brought have been particularly exciting. Better still, there is more to come. He also sees machine learning, IoT, 5G and AI bringing in another wave of drastic changes. The list of new opportunities this tech opens up is endless. (16.52) – What drew you to a career in IT? It was Thomas’ love of gaming that laid the foundations for his IT career. Through it, he got into building his own computers and optimising the operating system. (17.30) – What is the best career advice you have ever received? The best career advice Thomas given was not to complain too much. Instead, work to make things better. (17.47) - Conversely, what is the worst career advice you've ever received? Someone once told Thomas to stretch the truth a bit. Thomas does not feel comfortable doing that. He believes that if you take that approach, in the end, people will lose trust in you. (18.19) – If you were to begin your IT career again, right now, what would you do? Thomas says he would become a data scientist, working with AI and machine learning. (18.50) – What are you currently focusing on in your career? Of course, Thomas is focusing on adjusting to a different working environment. His role as a cloud advocate requires him to spend a lot of customers listening to their issues. So, at the moment, he is honing his listening skills. It is vital that he truly listens to what they are saying. If he fails to do this he cannot make the right decisions. (19.38) – What is the number one non-technical skill that has helped you the most in your IT career? Thomas feels that is his presentation skills. It was a tough skill for him to learn because he was a very shy person, but he is glad that he did. (20.26) - What do you do to keep your own IT career energized? Being a person who wants to know it all helps to keep Thomas’ career energized. He finds being on the bleeding edge keeps him interested and engaged. (20.59) - What do you do in your spare time away from technology? Thomas enjoys running, playing badminton and going to the gym. They offer him the chance to completely switch off from work-related things.  (21.50) – Phil asks Thomas to share a final piece of career advice with the audience. Never give up on the things that are important is Tomas’ parting piece of career advice. Not everything will come easily, but, in the end, you will get there. Good results, often require a lot of hard work and effort. BEST MOMENTS: (3.24) THOMAS – "Listen to your customers. Think about what’s on their minds, what is stopping them from succeeding." (4.41) THOMAS – "What's helped me a lot is staying positive." (6.19) THOMAS – "Enthusiasm is infectious."  (17.26) THOMAS – "Stop complaining. Instead, take action and make things better." (22.02) THOMAS – "Never give up. Be persistent and put in the practice to reach your goal." CONTACT THOMAS: Twitter: https://twitter.com/ThomasMaurer LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomasmaurer2/ Website: https://www.thomasmaurer.ch/

La mode fait-elle du bien ou du mal à l’humanité ? Pourquoi s’accapare-t-elle toujours les codes de la culture pop ? Et surtout, surtout, pourquoi les mannequins font toujours la gueule ? On y répond avec nos invités bien habillés Aloïs Guinut (Dress like a parisian), Mélody Thomas (What’s Good) et Yanis (Aka Sliimy).

Stu: This week we welcome Thomas DeLauer. He is an American celebrity trainer, entrepreneur and an author, known for his writings on inflammation inside of the human body. His fitness journey started when he was 12, while studying art history in Italy. After seeing fitness models on magazine covers, Thomas became interested in creating a muscular physique of his own. He quickly developed a passion for exercising. During his early 20s, Thomas took some time away from the gym to focus on his career as an entrepreneur. During that time, he developed some unhealthy habits and became overweight. He realized he needed to get back into the gym, so he spent several months training hard to get back into shape. After several months of hard work, Thomas got his old physique back and decided to start a new business that would compliment his love for fitness, so Thomas became a personal trainer. Ever since he made the switch to fitness, he went on to grow his name successfully, and help clients around the world transform their lifestyles. Questions asked in the episode - Are carbs the enemy or can we use them to our advantage for optimizing health? - Do you think keto is the ‘magic pill’ for weight loss? - What are your thoughts on ‘looking fit’ vs ‘being healthy’? - What do you do to ensure that you get the best night’s sleep?   http://180nutrition.com.au/    Stu Okay, back to the show. This week I am excited to welcome Thomas DeLauer. Now Thomas is an expert in the world of chronic inflammation. He’s a pioneer in personal transformation. He’s got a great story himself. He’s a host of a very successful and hugely educational YouTube channel as well. So in this episode, this week we discuss the many faces of inflammation. How it’s probably sabotaging your health goals. We discuss looking fit versus being healthy and whether the ketogenic diet is right for you. So Thomas is a great guy, hugely knowledgeable, and I’m really excited to be able to share this info with you today. Anyway, enough rambling for me. Let’s get back to the show. [00:01:30] Hey guys, this is Stu from 180 Nutrition and I am delighted to welcome Thomas Delauer to the show today. Good morning Thomas. How are you? Thomas What is going on? Thanks for having me. Stu Good stuff. So look, first up Thomas, for everybody out there, specifically over here as well, that may not be familiar with what you do, I’d love for you to just tell us a little bit about yourself. Why you do what you do as well. Thomas Yeah. I’ll give you kind of the 30 second elevator pitch here. Stu Great. Thomas [00:02:30] So a lot of people that do know me, know me probably from YouTube and Facebook. Just from the plethora of videos I put out there but my main claim to fame was my transformation. I was 280 pounds and working kind of in a corporate healthcare environment. Very unhappy person. Very unhealthy person. I was focused on money and focused on business and focused on career. So I had a big transformation in my life. Now I’m 180 pounds. Been on covers of multiple magazines, T.V., everything like that, so in all harnessing the power of the Ketogenic diet, fasting, and really understanding inflammation. And working closely with a lot of physicians over my career, cause I was in the health care industry. I owned an ancillary lab services company. So that was really my claim to fame. Harnessing the power of all these doctors that I worked around and utilizing it to really transform my life. Then I realized that I had a gift for articulating more complex scientific subjects and articulating health and physiology and really breaking it down for people. That’s what I do now. I create lots of videos for a living and fortunately help lots of people, or so I think I do.   For full interview and transcript: http://180nutrition.com.au/180-tv/thomas-delauer-interview/

Kara - What are the proper techniques for long distance running? Thomas - What exercises are the best to build a broad chest and shoulders? Tegan - How many days of rest does a muscle need to recover? Fitness For Freedom Online Personal Training Subscribe to Our YouTube Channel Follow us On Instagram - fitness_for_freeedom_1

Welcome back to the 2nd edition of the Cabral House Call this weekend and here are today's amazing questions from our community! Thomas: What can I do to boost testosterone naturally? Jennifer A: When will I start seeing results? Wes: What’s your recommended form of yoga? Enjoy the show! - - - Show Notes: http://StephenCabral.com/183 - - - Get Your Question Answered! http://StephenCabral.com/askcabral      

How common was it in the ancient world for the first book written about someone to be 40 years after their death? How do apologists explain how Moses learned and wrote about the stories that pre-date his birth? Is there any real difference between the doctrine of predestination and its hardcore version of "double predestination" espoused by some Calvinists? Christian apologists defending the historical resurrection of Jesus often use the appearance of Jesus to Paul as evidence that the resurrection really happened. A historic appearance to Paul would have had to occur post ascension (according to the New Testament timeline). In order to argue that Paul is encountering the resurrected Jesus, wouldn't you have to assume that Jesus returned to earth after the ascension? Should we now to be expecting a 3rd coming? Has any scholarly work pointed out the 'deconstruction' of distinctions in Gospel of Thomas and the mystical experience underlying it? How often and where does the phrase 'the age' appear in the New Testament? Does it come from the Old Testament or is it unique to the New? To what does it refer? In 1 Corinthians 15:3 Paul says that Jesus was "seen by Cephas, then by the twelve." Nowhere in the gospel accounts does Jesus appear to twelve disciples. What does this say about Judas' role in the passion narrative? Does the term "Judas (not Iscariot)" suggest that a single Judas has been split into various characters, including Thomas? What is your view of the Muratorian Fragment? Is there a resource where I can get a list of "Q" material? When is the earliest extra-biblical evidence for the existence of the church? Who are the earliest Christians to be mentioned by contemporaries? Which NT characters were historical figures? Discussion of Diodorus Siculus' account of how Orpheus identified Osiris with Dionysus and its implications for mythicism, the virgin birth and the ethnicity/color of the Egyptians. If the letters of Ignatius are essentially fiction, what are your thoughts about how and why they came to be written? Why do the chronology of Mark and Luke differ on the time of day/night Jesus faced the Sanhedrin? In Revelation, are the "Jews" who belong to the "synagogue of Satan" the Paulinists? When the interpretation of a particular verse hinges on one or two words, when does the manuscript evidence kick in?

We heard today about Thomas doubting that his fellow disciples had seen the risen Jesus, and we hear about Jesus giving the Holy Spirit to his disciples and telling them to continue his work of forgiveness and reconciliation. Have you ever heard someone say, "May God forgive you, because I never will"? I think I've heard it more in movies than in real life, and Queen Elizabeth I is reported to have said those words, but I'm guessing she's not the only person in the history of Christianity to utter those words. "God may forgive you, but I can't." Who are we to think our complaint is greater than God's so that we can't forgive? Of course we don't forgive and feel that we can't when we still feel the darkness of the hurt that was caused and we see the other as that person who caused us pain. How then does God see us, that he can forgive us? God sees us as beloved and broken, and hurting each other out of our brokenness. God forgives us and sent Jesus to forgive us, and then Jesus sent his disciples to continue God's work of reconciliation and forgiveness. "Receive the Holy Spirit," Jesus said to his disciples, "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." Jesus sent his disciples to continue his work. So when we don't forgive others, we are actually thwarting the work of Jesus. We're denying the work of God when we don't forgive. 1 John 1:7-8 tells us, "If we say we have no sin, then we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us, but if we confess our sins, then he who is faithful and just will forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness." God forgives us. Who are we not to? In fact, as 1 John 1:6 says, "if we say we have fellowship with God while we are walking in darkness," say holding that grudge and not forgiving, "then we lie and do not do what is true, but if we walk in the light as he is in the light, then we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin." How do we square that, then with all of what Jesus told his disciples when he appeared to them in the upper room. "If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"? If Jesus telling his disciples that it is up to their good judgement as to when not to forgive? If someone really really upsets you, then don't forgive? That doesn't seek to square with Jesus' death on the cross, or what we heard in 1 John about holding darkness within us. Not forgiving seems rather to be thwarting the work of Jesus. Jesus gave his disciples the Holy Spirit so that they and we could declare God's forgiveness on others. I think Jesus' statement to his disciples was not a command not to forgive, but a warning of what happens when we don't. Beware in this ministry of reconciliation which I have given you to do, that when you don't forgive others, those sins are held, and that darkness that you hold on to thwarts the will of God. Philippians 2:5-7 says, "Let the same mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not regard equality with God as something to be exploited, but emptied himself, taking the form of a slave, being born in human likeness." Jesus emptied himself of his majesty and humbled himself. Jesus chose forgiveness over righteous punishment. For the same mind to be in us, we also would forgive, rather than holding onto our possibly righteous anger, and we would continue the work of reconciliation. What of Thomas? What is the role of doubt in this work? Jesus said in John 10, to those who did not believe in him, "If I am not doing the works of my Father, then do not believe me, but if I do them, then even if you don't believe me, believe the works..." There are lots of people who don't believe, and that's ok. Thomas doubted, and that was ok. What wouldn't have been ok is if Thomas didn't forgive. Folks may not believe in Jesus, but when they see the way and the works of Jesus through the forgiveness and reconciliation we offer, then they may come to believe through those works. We may doubt, but when we do, we must still forgive. In order to do this work of forgiveness and reconciliation, I offer one final piece of scripture, that we might continue walking in the light of Jesus: Colossians 3:12-15. "As God's chosen one, holy and beloved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience. Bear with one another and, if anyone has a complaint against another, forgive each other, just as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive. Above all, clothe yourselves with love, which binds everything together in perfect harmony. And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in the one body. And be thankful." Amen.

Today we have a very special guest, John Lee Dumas, entrepreneur and military veteran. John, I’m going to get right to it, you’ve had an interesting background and career. It appears to be extremely smooth with EntrepreneurOnFire and the stuff you’ve done over the last two years, but I’d like to go back a little ways into your earlier life. What were you like, for example, as I see you very, very motivated and highly functional, highly detail oriented, etc. is this something you always had or were there any changes that were the result of the military? John: I led a very sheltered life for the first 18 years, and because of that, I wasn’t that entrepreneur from day one. You hear Gary Vaynerchuk who is making $2,000 a weekend trading baseball cards. I was really doing as little possible to just enjoy life to the max; playing sports, having fun in high school, doing those type of things. It truly wasn’t until my time in the military where I encountered many life and death situations, being a deployed officer to Iraq for a 13-month tour of duty in 2003/2004 that I really realized: “Man, I am the person that’s responsible for my success or demise.” When I had that shift, Thomas, that’s when things started to change. Pretty quickly after the Military, I saw that that was also able to be the case in the civilian world. As an entrepreneur, I also realized that I had responsibility for my success or demise. Not necessarily on a life and death format anymore, but on a success and failure format. I decided that that was going to be my goal, to take the reins, to be really in control of everything that I could control and make the most of the situations. Thomas: Did you have a lot of success before the military? John: Before the military, no. I was a very average high school student. I was a very average college student. I didn’t excel in anything. I really didn’t pile a lot of responsibilities on my plate at all. I wanted to be free, I wanted to be lacking any real responsibilities, which I think is one thing that really pulled me into entrepreneurship – the ability to be free and to really control my own destiny. Before I jumped into the U.S. Army, that was more on a: “How can I put as little on my plate as possible so I can do what I consider fun?” That was really my mentality and attitude. Because of that, I was just pretty average at just about everything. Thomas: What’s interesting there is here you’ve been hyper-successful, if I can use that term (if it is one), but you had to at some point learn that you could. You had to be the little train that could. What happened in the military that made you realize: “Wait a second. I can do this”? Because you really didn’t have those successes. You went jumping from one thing, to the military, and then shortly thereafter you became super successful. John:           The military was the first time that I had no choice but to accept responsibility, and it wasn’t just a little bit of responsibility; it was massive responsibility. That massive responsibility encountered the lives of 14 soldiers that were under my command in the four tanks I was in control of. That was a responsibility that I couldn’t just walk away with or take lightly. It was a very heavy burden that I took at a very young age, especially for someone that had kind of been avoiding those burdens and those responsibilities for most of his life. I just came to that realization when I stood in front of my soldiers as we were about to go into a fire fight, or that next mission, or whatever it might be that their lives could very well be dependent on how prepared I was for this mission. Their lives could be dependent on how I react when it comes to becoming under fire, and all of these decisions that I had to make. That’s when I just made this mental shift in my mind that said: “You know what? I am going to no longer adopt this attitude of lackadaisicalness,