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Smart locks come in all shapes and sizes and mostly end up with a large unsightly mechanism on the inside of your home. Not with Level Lock. In this interview, we chat with Ken Goto, founder, and CTO of Level Home, about their first invention - the invisible smart lock. Transcript:Marc Aflalo:We are back on YourTechReport. Thank you guys so much for being here. It is @YourTechReport on all our social media. Where you'll find lots of cool stuff. Anytime we talk about something here on the radio show, we tend to like to showcase it on our various social media platforms. And this next product we're going to be talking about is one that is close to home because I'm a big smart home fan. If you guys listen to the show and hopefully you guys do. Our next guest, his name is Ken Goto. He's the CTO of a company, Ken the company's Level Home, right?Ken Goto:The company is Level Home, correct.Marc Aflalo:Level Home, and this product. And I'll tell you guys a story here. Every once in a while, I search online as I'm doing research for new products. And I try to see what's coming out in the market. Because I've gone and leaned towards the HomeKit platform because my family is mostly iOS. I fell upon Level Lock. Now there are a lot of smart locks out there, and people who are trying various things when it comes to a lock. But Ken when it comes to the form factor of the way we think of smart locks, I think there's always a key pad on the outside. And then there's some kind of big bulky thing that sits on the inside. You got to change the batteries every couple months. And really you guys have taken things to a whole different level. And I want you to do your best because I know it's hard to describe physically, but describe physically the Level Lock to people. And then we'll get into the backstory and how this came to be.Ken Goto:Yeah. Yeah. So let's definitely talk about that. As you said, smart locks tend to be big, bulky, obvious things sitting on your door, holding batteries, circuit boards, all that stuff. Level Lock is basically invisible to your eye. Once it's installed, it looks like the lock you already had on your door. In fact, it is the lock you already had on the door. So the way we do that is you take your housings from your existing deadbolt. You take them off your door and inside that cavity, that's in your door, you've got a bolt that's there now. And it's taking up all that space. And what we do is we live inside that borehole entirely inside. So our motors, our gears, our boards, sensors, it's all in there. It's all in a two and an eighth inch diameter, less than an inch wide gap.Ken Goto:And then you take your housings that you just took off and you put them back on. And we go away. So the end result is suddenly, it's smart. It's funny when we were prototyping the product, I put it on my front door at my house and I'm sure you're familiar with this experience. I bring every piece of technology home, and most of the time it's a disappointment. And I usually have to hear it from my wife. "Can I just turn on a light? Can I work the stereo. I want to watch [crosstalk 00:02:50]."Marc Aflalo:Oh my God this is the last three months of my life.Ken Goto:Yeah, seriously. So I put it on our door. It was there for maybe three months before I actually said, "Hey, that thing I worked on it's in there. Do you want me to give you the iPhone app and it'll let you use it." It was just really interesting because we can meet people where they're at with technology. And in your home, you've got people who are. They're in different places in their life. Some people want to use a key they're old school. They don't want to mess with that. Other people, as you know, you're tethered to your phone, it's like part of your body. So we wanted to create this technology that was invisible, that just literally disappeared, so that it blends seamlessly with your daily routines.Marc Aflalo:Guys, I will post some videos and links in our social media. So you can really get a good view of how this works. And I think if you've ever installed any lock whatsoever. Your brain's going to click and go, "Oh my God, that is just genius." Because it really is. So now I really have to ask the question, where did this idea come from? Because there's always something that happens in the story of whether it's one of the founders, someone had something happened to them and it was born out of that, right?Ken Goto:Yeah, no, this is true. John Martin, my co founder and I, we've been passionate about the home space for the longest time we can remember. Your home is super sacred. It's where you greet your friends, and it's where your family is, and it's where you want to be safe. Especially now, these days where we're sheltering. So I think he and I both had a whole series of experiences where it's like, "This is really irritating. Why isn't there some technology in my home that makes my home welcoming. That makes my home easy to use, easy to access." And I know he had a particular story about there was one of our, sort of... When we were trying to sit down and figure out what area of the home we were going to tackle first. One of the stories he had was, he was on his way up to Tahoe to go to a place that they have up there with the family.Ken Goto:And they got stuck in the snow and all of this. And hours and hours, you probably have had that experience where you get trapped on the way to Tahoe. And two hours turns into six, seven. And they get up there. I don't know, middle of the night and he's got no keys to get in the house. And that's an awkward experience to have to go back to the wife and screaming children and basically say, "I'm not sure what we need to do. Maybe we'll asleep in the car." And it's frustrating. You think about maybe breaking your own window of your own house and things like that. So I know that that was one key thing that resonated with him. And I had a similar story and we both said, "You know what? Access." Access is a big deal because there are tons of products in your home that people are trying to make smart. And there's just lots of solutions looking for problems.Ken Goto:But then there are certain areas of the home that are demonstrably practical that you're running into daily. That really are a problem. And that was just one example. So we said, we got to do access. We've got to get you in your house.Marc Aflalo:Well, it's funny because probably about five years ago, I remember one of the first smart lock companies. And I'm sure you won't mind me mentioning competition it was August I think. And I remember having a conversation and one of the topics that came up in conversation was that the lock on that door, regardless of light bulbs and any other smart home devices you might think of, for some reason is the most sacred device in the smart home because it is it guards the entry to your home. Same thing when it comes to garage doors, because it's that entry to your home. So regardless of how you position it, you need to make sure that that device is foolproof. And there can't be any questions about it because no one's going to tamper with that. No one's going to change that unless they know that they're secure, can't be hacked, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm curious how in the messaging and how in the design of this product, you guys tackle that because it is a big deal.Ken Goto:Yeah, absolutely. And that's part of the interest in it for us, it's a high bar. You're either going to delight customers because it's something they're touching constantly through the day, their family's touching it or you're going to really disappoint. And we like that challenge. So for us, it was more than just saying, can we make something small and stuff it inside your door and have it be fragile. Have it really not live up to expectations. So for us, it was trying to come up with a design where we could achieve the same level of robustness of security as this big, giant, bulky things you see today. And we could even exceed them. If you take those things apart, they've got plastic gears inside. They're not built heavy duty.Ken Goto:If you take our stuff apart, you've got stainless steel gears. You've got just very, very specific material selection and composition. There's a tremendous amount of thought that goes into it to ensure that we can achieve the same or better level of physical security, of durability, of performance as something that is just dramatically bigger. When we show it to people and we go and inside and tear it down a little bit. It's almost mind boggling. They just can't believe that we could have achieved that in that form factor.Marc Aflalo:Well, I guess, it's like, it's when you look at smartphones and just even computers, miniaturization, obviously over time, it's important because you're trying to get more bang for your buck. And you're trying to obviously fit more in a smaller space. So tell me about how long this process, excuse me, how long this process took. Because this can't be just, "Oh, we thought about this and when we came to market in a couple of months from now." So it's obviously quite some years in the making. So I'm curious, how long ago did you start? When did this idea first start, and how on earth do you fit everything? Battery alone takes up an enormous amount of space in such a small design.Ken Goto:It does. It does.Marc Aflalo:How do you fit what you need to in there and make it last?Ken Goto:Yeah, absolutely. So as far as the R&D, I would say we took a solid two years. Company's been around for four years, just had an anniversary a couple of days ago.Marc Aflalo:Congratulations.Ken Goto:Thank you. Thank you. I would say we were in foundational R&D for about two years. Really trying to figure out going from large form factor, prototypes, concepts, all the way down through a series of cycles until we could get it into a form factor. And then from there you're constantly testing, you're constantly validating, you're constantly reworking to be able to meet all of these conflicting expectations. Because the size fights with strength, and durability, performance, and cost and manufacturability. So there are a lot of horizontally opposed goals. So I would say it took a solid two years of R&D before we got to the formula that let us know we got it, we got the product.Ken Goto:And then, from there, there's another couple of years, a little less. Where we have to basically get it ready for manufacturing and bring it out to scale, launch the product, build the rest of the company. And that's what the remaining time has been spent on. In addition to other products on the roadmap that we're also working on that are coming out later. As far as how we pack things down like that, a lot of the team, especially the core team back at that point, we all came from Apple. We're used to trying to find elegant compact solutions.Ken Goto:There are components we use where, for example, a piece of electronic component we're using for three, and four and five different capabilities, where someone else might think of five discrete components for doing that. So there's just a lot of areas where we try to condense things down. We try to be really creative and clever about how we package things together that lets us do that. You've mentioned the battery, the battery is an example. You've been looking at the website, but have you figured out where the battery is?Marc Aflalo:I have figured out what the battery is because I'm that ingenuine. And I don't even know what the word is, but, no, the battery is in the actual bolt itself.Ken Goto:It is, it is, it is right. Because once you put all this together and it's all invisible, you want to be taking housings off every year to go change batteries and things. It's a common question. It's like, "Well, okay, it's invisible but now how do I change a battery?" So we put it in a bolt, which takes a tremendous amount of engineering to figure out how you make a battery go into something that needs to be strong and durable, something that moves mechanically, but also it needs to stay connected electrically. So there's a lot to it to package it together. It's definitely a system. It's not thought about in pieces. And a lot of that just has to do with the way that we sort of the ethos of the company and how we engineer things. It's just a rigorous process of prototyping, validation, prototyping, validation, until we really zero in on the right end solution.Marc Aflalo:We talk to a lot of people in different companies, and we normally talk to them when a products now available in the market or coming out in the market. And other people have had hands on time, but we really asked the question. In describing this four year process, I'm curious, I'm sure there were ups and downs. Were there any points in time where you said to yourself, or you guys looked at each other, you and John said, "This isn't going to work." Or you felt really kind of down yourselves before there was some kind of breakthrough.Ken Goto:Yeah. I would say obviously with any engineering you run into hiccups, you run into hitches. I have to say. And it sounds strange because it sounds like that can't be real. I don't think we ever hit a point where we thought we had a barrier that was not something we could overcome. And I'll give you a reason why. And this again, gets to the ethos of how we design. When we think about doing a product, a lot of people look at what's out there and they try to make a better mousetrap. They try to bolt on, they try to take that approach. You can see that in the smart locks today. The inside of the doors occupied. So we're on the outside. Now I got to have this. It just gets bigger and bigger.Ken Goto:And you end up with more and more compromises because as an example, a regular bolt for a deadbolt is mechanically very difficult to turn. If you tried to turn it with your finger without the power just in your hand, the amount of force required to do that is really large. And so imagine a little tiny motor gearbox battery having to do that, having to push that old bolt, that old technology from the 1930s. So for us, the way we design is we always go back... We go to a place we call square zero. It's not square one, it's square zero it's before that. We really want to understand what the customer's trying to achieve. What is it they really want independent of technology, independent of the can we do it sort of thing. And we'd like to start there, and then we build up from there.Ken Goto:And what that ends up doing is it's counterintuitive. It opens up more design paths for every particular step of the way. So it actually allows us to have more paths, where if we do hit a hitch with one direction, "Oh, there's three other ways we can shift now." We're not boxed in in that way. So it's given us a lot of flexibility. For example, once we chose to replace that core bolt that lets us be inside the borehole. So then that opened up all the possibilities. Now instead of trying to be outside, trying to figure out how to make our box on the outside, smaller, less noticeable. Well, we're inside now. So now we already have taken care of that. When we redesigned the bolt, we get to make a bolt that's incredibly smooth and efficient.Ken Goto:So it takes very, very little power to move that bolt back and forth. Because we get to design that fresh. We don't have to take on the burden of the previous bolt. So you end up allowing yourself to get past things that might've been a problem. Like battery life would be an obvious problem for a smart lock. And it is a problem for most smart locks. But because we've made these other changes, suddenly battery life isn't a big issue for us because all our pieces and the way things move are so efficient, so low friction, we don't run into that problem. So we either avoid certain problems that everyone steps into, or when we do get near that problem space, we have two or three paths we can take.Marc Aflalo:Yeah. A couple of months ago before Apple, and Google, and Amazon announced this smart home alliance where they're going to start open sourcing a bit of HomeKit. There was a choice you had to make, which was, what do we make this compatible with? And you guys obviously took the HomKit approach. I think the DNA in your blood probably helped define that. But was there any other factors that helped point you in that direction?Ken Goto:Yeah. I mean, to your point the ecosystems are converging. Maybe a year or two out with that grouping coming together, they'll all unify on one platform, which would be great for consumers. But right now, right now we had to pick. We had to make our choices. As a small company we had to, basically, decide which one we were going to invest in first. And HomeKit is a great ecosystem. The integration is great. Apple, of course, you're familiar with HomeKit. You're familiar with Apple obviously. So the way their products integrate together, the way they tie in, the way it's seamless, it's definitely in line with our ethos of design, and simplicity, and user experience. So for that reason, it was a pretty obvious choice for us to start with. And yes, Apple DNA, Apple familiarity, that certainly was a factor as well.Marc Aflalo:Now, I make the assumption sometimes that people know completely what a smart lock does. But there obviously is an app that goes along with this that obviously ties things together. Other than obviously using HomeKit. Is there anything specific other than obviously unlocking and locking, and setting codes that sets your software side apart from everybody else?Ken Goto:Yeah. I think there's a couple of things that are unique about what we do. Level Lock is a Bluetooth lock. So normally speaking, it's a local lock. It's not connected to the cloud, for example, all the time, unless you have a hub, et cetera. But your phone is connected. Our phones are connected to the internet pretty much everywhere all the time. So we do certain things where we actually leverage your phones uplink for communication, for sharing of invitations, et cetera. You can share an invite to someone else that person could come up to the door. And that invite's actually going to process and work for that user locally, without that lock having to have had an internet connection up to the cloud. So we do a lot of things along those lines. We also have user based features around things like Party Pass.Ken Goto:Where I'm sure you've had the situation where you've got people coming over, and people are ringing your doorbell. No one can hear them you're out on the deck or whatever. And they're calling you like, "I'm outside. Let me in." So we said let's make this Party Pass feature. Let's make an easy way for you to create a pass that you can easily share through your social networks or email, or what have you, and get that to someone else. And then that person shows up at the door, and the door just welcome them in. And so that's a another example of a feature that's unique to what we do.Marc Aflalo:That's very cool. I like that a lot, especially, with the summer weather here. I've experienced that about five or six times probably in the past week. I have some more questions for you because you said something off the top, but before I dive into those. Tell me about availability of Level Lock where can people get it when, price point, et cetera, et cetera.Ken Goto:Yes. So Level Lock is available from level.co our website that you went to. It's also available through certain pro channels and distributors. There's a variety of places that home builders, et cetera, can purchase a Level for their builds that they're doing, et cetera. But for end user customers, it's through level.co right now. And the retail price is 229.Marc Aflalo:Awesome. Okay. So here's what I wanted to get because you had mentioned something about when we first started this conversation, about what was the first product that you guys were going to be tackling. So clearly, clearly, you guys have a mission and there's other things in the smart home that you're going to be going after. Are there any other products that you can tell me in the pipeline, or give me a indication as to where Level might be going? No, is an okay answer by the way. It's okay to say no.Ken Goto:I can't tell you about other products in the pipeline. I can definitely tell you that. Yes. You touched on it correctly. The company name is Level Home. It's not Level Lock. We are passionate about the home. There are so many areas of innovation in the home, and we really believe that these problems can be solved. And a company with our ethos can tackle those. So there are several other areas of the home we're super interested in, but as a startup we're going to stay focused. So I'm going to say no.Marc Aflalo:I like it. I like it a lot. Ken, awesome time talking to you. Thank you so much for taking the time to come on. I am very excited. I'm going to go to the site right now and buy one because your PR agency said they wouldn't send one. So I'm going to go buy one.Ken Goto:What.Marc Aflalo:I know. It's okay. Listen, demand. I understand there's demand. No, but I'm definitely, I'm looking forward to getting hands on because I love to follow up interviews. Especially the first time and really show our listeners on our YouTube channel. How easy it is to install. And I'm looking forward to it because I've been watching a lot of the videos. And you guys can go to youtube.com, just look up Level Lock. The reviews you're getting are phenomenal. People are loving this lock they're calling it's, obviously, the invisible HomeKit smart lock, incredible impressions. I'm very excited to get hands on, congratulations on the success because this is going to be a great product. If this is any indication of what's down the road for you guys. I'm really looking forward to it. So thanks again for coming on. And it was great talking to you.Ken Goto:Absolutely. Thanks Marc. And thanks for taking time to talk about Level. We're super excited and looking forward to hearing more from you after you get your lock.Marc Aflalo:Oh, you will hear.

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Please ignore any speech-to-text errors) [00:01:43] We've got a great special guest with us and I'm going to introduce themselves to you. Would you like to do that quickly? [00:01:58] I would love to. Hey, everyone. Beatty Carmichael here. And I love being here. I love marketing. I'm passionate about it. I love marketing to generate listings. Been in this business for about 20 years, working with sales agents, generating consumer leads. Start working in the real estate world. 2012, we start getting tremendous results with our clients, helping them earn as much as one hundred thousand dollars within six months to a year. And geographic farming using some things we've done. And then over the years started work on additional things to help them win more of the listings that we're identifying for them. [00:02:38] And that brings us real quickly today on what we do and in working with personal list and past clients and sphere of influence. [00:02:46] That's great. And what would you like to put me into? Juicy news. [00:02:54] Robert Newman, founder of Bandari and the. That that that should be enough for the moment. You're. [00:03:02] And I'm the founder. Roy, we provide a platform for you to lead. We've been using Facebook to get new leads. [00:03:13] So this show, folks, we're going to be discussing how to build a really powerful, effective personal form and how the techniques and the way you build up a relatively small group of referrals but have a really powerful referral engine. [00:03:35] So that's what we agree, hopefully. Right. [00:03:41] So maybe we can start with what you see as some maybe some of the people that come to you or make him around your team, but will refer people to that. [00:03:59] Yeah, that's super. [00:04:00] So the concept, I think is, is how do you take that personal list, your personal forum, your past clients sphere of influence and other people and get more selves out of it on an ongoing basis? And I think the thing that most people the biggest mistake most people make is they think they're doing okay, because what happens is, is you've got your list, you're working your list, you get sales from it. You compare yourself to other people in your office that you know, and you say, I'm doing okay. So this must be the right way to do it. But what they miss out on is how many more cells over here you really can get if you just understood what was possible. Can I share a study with you that kind of correlate? Okay, perfect. So a few years back, an organization wanted to really understand how many cells should you be getting from your personal contact list? So they survey thousands of agents across the country. They got that data back and as they started tabulating it. What they found is once you cross a threshold in terms of how consistently and significantly you touch that list, the average agent in that list was getting 17 cells a year for every 100 personal contacts that they were marketing to. So now that you got kind of a statistical reference, you can start to look at how many cells a year are you getting on your list and say, am I really doing all that well or not? And I think what happens with most people is they're doing far shy of what they should be doing. And that's the biggest mistake. If you don't know you're missing the mark, then you'll never hit the mark. [00:05:38] Two words, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, boop. So you know that. [00:05:50] So how do we improve the mood of the people? But they know we move immediately. [00:06:00] Yes. So I say they're five steps. Or better yet, I might say there's five pillars. OK. And what happens is all these things go in. If you imagine you put all the stuff into a cauldron and kind of mix it up, all these things apply. It's not one step after another as these five different things. I think the biggest thing is understanding how does a homeowner choose an agent? Because once you can figure out what causes that homeowner to choose one agent over another, then you can modify your marketing to apply these principles and you can start to get more sales from it. So what we've started to learn is it's actually a formula. You have two things. You have trust and you have top of mind. And the goal is to increase your trust. And your top of mind within those homeowners mindset. And a real simple way to kind of understand the dynamic is if you put trust on a scale of one to 10. And the same thing with top of mine on one to 10, then if your trust is a three and you're top of mind is a five. If you were to multiply those together, then three times five, you're about a 15 percent likelihood that you can get a sale or a referral that's coming out of your list. But if you can increase your trust, let's say, to a nine and increase your top of mind to a 10. Multiply those together. Now you're about a 90 percent chance of getting whatever sales and referrals come out of that list. So the whole idea, the first thing is to start to understand that you've got increase both trust and top of mind. What I see with most agents is they work on top of mind, but they have no clue about trust. And so you have this lopsided so that you don't really get very far down the road. [00:07:46] Doing, too. When you say increasing trust. A lot of our a lot of our audience isn't actually going to understand what you mean by that or they're going to they're going to need something more specific in order to make it more apparent. So what is it? What is it you are referring to when you say increasing trust? [00:08:03] Very good. So that's actually step number two or pillar number two. How do you do it? Sort of. You have to understand that there is a concept concept in marketing that really applies to what goes on here. And it's the concept of outside perception versus inside reality. And here's what it means. [00:08:20] The outside perception of that homeowner is that all agents are the same, which all agree with that. [00:08:29] Sure. OK. I mean, for the sake of this conversation. Yes. [00:08:35] Ok, let me see if I can I would say there's a lot of filters in the average mind. That's been my experience being in this industry alone. But but but let's just say that for the sake of argument that that whether or not they have not. The average seller is is in the same category as the other or the average age is in some categories, other agents. [00:08:58] Ok. So let me give you a Real-Life example. A client called me up. His name is Jason. He's the leader of a team that year. His team did eleven hundred and twenty transactions. So it's a huge team. And they've been targeting a geographic farm of two thousand homes for six months. No results. He called me up and said, Can you help us? I said, I think I can. Let's get on the phone and talk. So I was on the phone with Jason and his assistant, Ken, and I was asking him what's going on in this farm? And and I immediately said, well, it sounds like you're not well branded. And I use the wrong term because all nobody. I'm really well branded. OK. What do you mean? He said, I've been spending eight thousand dollars a month for two years. I'm on the radio. I'm in the billboard. I'm on the park benches. I'm at the grocery store, at the athletic stores, athletic events. I do a 12 page newsletter once a quarter that I send down. Is that all that's going to this homeowner group of 2000 homes? He said, yes. I said, well, then how many listings came on the market in the last six months? And he said probably about 200. I said, how many of those listings did you get? He said, I got a couple. So I said, Jason, if you're so well branded, why did only two people trust you enough to sell their home? And there's this pregnant pause. [00:10:22] And he said, I don't know. I said, would you like to understand why? He said yes. So I started to explain this concept of outside perception and the way I explain it. All these homeowners look at you just like any other agent. All you do is stick a sign in the yard, list your home in the MLS and wait for someone else to bring a buyer. He said, You agree with that? I said, as long as they believe that you're just like everyone else, then they have no reason to choose you, because in their mind they can choose any agent and their home is going to sell and about the same amount of time for about the same price. I said imagine for a moment that every one of those homeowners out there work can. She understands everything about how hard you work, all your skill, all your degrees, all the extra stuff that you do, the nuances that drive everything. If all of those homeowners were Cam, how many of those listings do you think you'd get and can piped up and said all of them. And that's what I mean. Outside perception is most agents do the same thing. But the inside reality is you're really special the way that you build trust. Back to your question, the way that you build trust has you got to help them understand your inside reality of your skill and expertise to the degree that they would feel that they're full to choose anyone else beside you. [00:11:38] The way that you get there is as we've analyze this and as we've tested it, what we've found, there's a formula, I call it the three SS sets up. It's a three step formula that as long as you do these three ingredients on all your marketing, then you will consistently move that needle to where they start to lean toward you all the time. The first s is showing off your successes. That means, you know, let them know that you're constantly selling. The second S is to share the secrets behind those successes. Let them help them give open up the kimona, so to speak, in terms of of what is it that you do special that causes that sell to move faster or for a higher sales price. So they start to believe that you actually understand real estate at a level that most agents may not. And and now they are from their mindset. You've got the expertise. And the third thing is what we call showing in a unique services that you do if you're familiar with the term unique selling proposition or USP. That's your USP. So when you show off your successes, explain what you're doing with those and constantly have a U.S. opinion package that and send it out consistently. That starts to build the trust level that gets home owners choosing. This is making sense. [00:12:59] Yes, it is. In order to understand the case study, though, a little bit better, because what you're doing in. Because I've trained my segment of our audience in a very particular way. When we start talking about past like a past history of past client scenario, I've gotten them used or trained to the concept of referring to that as a case study, a case study that you're mentioning it, which is great, by the way. And I'm loving. It is. But but I am curious, this agent, can you at least give us the part of the country that they were in? [00:13:31] Yeah. I'm sorry. Minnesota. Minnesota. OK. I don't weigh on the high end or the low end of the marketplace. In other words, where they selling your average average? [00:13:43] I think their average health prices in the 50s to 80s somewhere. Right in there. [00:13:48] Okay. All right. Perfect. So, yes, I do understand and I do agree with what you're what you're saying. The most important thing or the thing that you're saying that is giving us more detail than than things we've had on the show in the past is definitely the middle s past successes. But the secret to my formula, which is something that we've bounced, we've never quite called it, we've never packaged the information, is as beautifully as your packaging it. And I'm really appreciating that like you're you're the secret of my success. I that is not something that we've labeled that particular way. But you don't anyway contain them. [00:14:30] But before we go, we're probably going to go for a break, a few moments, folks, with just one friend. I want to clarify, because you've used the term top of mind. [00:14:41] We also use online presence. We kind of mix that soccer mind with online presence. [00:14:49] That means you you need to keep your you or your brain and you all know me, your brain in front of your target audience, because the more you do that to me, the more chances are you will refer people to. I just want to clarify that. So we're going to go for a break, folks, and we're going to come back. We're going to delve more into this question mark. Mary will be back in a few months. [00:15:20] You're listening to the Get Cellar's Calling You podcast if you want more listings from past clients and sphere of influence from geographic farming and even from commercial investment properties. [00:15:31] Check out our marketing service named Agent Dominator. We guaranteed closed sales or give your money back. Learn more and get sellers calling you die. Come and select Agent Dominator from the menu. [00:15:42] Now back to the podcast. [00:15:46] We can we both personally. So would you like to continue? [00:15:53] I would love to continue because you're getting me excited now. This is what I love to do. So back to your comment, Robert. That, you know, a lot of people talked about it, but they haven't gone into the level. So let me talk about how specifically do you start to transform? Because this is a transfer of knowledge. This is a transfer of what you know about yourself. So that becomes what they know about you. Let me share another case, though, because this is an isolated to just one location. I had another client who was a three year age, and at the time he was targeting twelve hundred homes in a farm. He'd been there for a year. He had no listings. And he called me up and said, Can you help me? I said, I think we can. And this is right at the beginning. This is like four and a half, five years go right at the beginning of the time that we started to be testing out this concept of the three S's and long before we've guided to the perfection level that we have now. So we started to test some things out. And it took us about four months to get in gear with it. Okay. And in those four months, he generated, I think, like two or three listings. [00:16:59] And then from month, for two months, they he generated another four listings. And by the eighth month, he was getting to come. List me now phone calls every single week. And here's what's really cool. Half of those calls were saying, Josh, I'm thinking about selling. Can you come talk to me? But the other half were saying, Josh, my home is on the market. It's not selling. As soon as my contract expires, will you come sell it for me? They never met the guy, but they were so convinced that he could do a better job. They were buying him sight unseen. When you can take a consumer who's never match you and convince them that you're the Best Buy Carious Lee through the mail with postcards. Imagine what you can do if that's a geographic form. Imagine what you can do with your personal list. People who already know you. So the methodology is simple. First, you gotta remember, you gotta keep showing off yourself. The easiest way to do that is just sell postcard. But then most agents just do a just whole postcard and it shows a picture of the house it says just sold, gives the address and you flip it to the back of the card and it says, I just sold this home. [00:18:06] If you want me to sell yours, give me a call. Just the same thing that everyone else does. But if you take a little bit of extra time and effort and actually craft that just old toy postcard to tell a story. OK. So now imagine the postcard comes out this way. The headline might say Sold in five days for full price. OK. Now, already that's starting to express something that you've done that most agents don't do. It's pretty impressive. But then I tell a story about it and destroy might be you know, the Smiths had just gotten a new job in another city. They had to move fast. [00:18:43] They did not have much equity, but they needed all the equity they had in order to buy their new home. They knew they needed an expert. They heard in my reputation. So they called me great decision because with aggressive marketing that began before the home even went on the market, we were able to generate 10 showings in the first five days. We created three offers and creative bidding war, selling it for full price. So now I'm starting to explain a little bit about what happened, or I can take that same concept and use a different show, sell postcards. And I'm going to start to outline what are the things that I did to get the home ready to go on the market. So this old fart, you know, we posted of all the clutter, we staged it. We we did simple fix ups and repairs and especially new coat of paint in the hallway and in the master bedroom and in the kitchen. Okay. We use professional photography. I wrote custom ad to target specific buyers who would want this type of home and all of these things before it ever went on the market. So once it went on the market, we created a deluge of prospects wanting to come see it. Whatever it is that you do, you articulate it. And here's here's the thing that is really funny. I was talking to a client recently, and and what the client was sharing is, is, you know, it's like she said, the light bulb just came on. It's not that you're better than the other agents. It's simply that you're telling the homeowner what it is that you do. [00:20:18] So they perceive you as better. I said, that's it. Knowledge is power. And if they understand it, they understand you, but they don't understand the other agent, they're more likely to choose you. This is kind of making sense. [00:20:34] No, it makes it makes very good sense. There's only one small operation for our. Again, just for John Ani's our audience, which is actually I think the vast majority of the people that we that we communicate with are going to be digital marketers more than traditional marketers. We have done direct mail specialist in the past on the show. And I'm sure that John has done way more than I have. So I'm going to say this for our audience. You can take the information that we're getting right now and in your mind, transfer the direct mail piece into a landing page. This method would work beautifully if we're driving traffic from the digital source such as Google or Facebook, sending them to a page. [00:21:19] And we could use exactly what most of this reads. [00:21:28] Ballboy boop boop boop boop boop boop boop. Grew your boobs. [00:21:38] Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. No, no. I was about ready to master. [00:21:48] Didi is beating the data. Right? Right. More inside the baby as my baby's name anyway. So that that that's the only thing I would say. Other than that I am loving everything. I have nothing to add. [00:22:02] Hey, buddy. Do you have a charger climb every time you do human cloning group. [00:22:12] But I guess that I've been forgiven for all the bad things I've done. I forgive those who do it again. [00:22:24] Thank you. But do you want your coverage to do. [00:22:33] So let me play off of what you guys are talking about, because I think you make a great point. This is not a postcard. The postcard is simply the delivery medium for the message is the message that makes a difference. It's not the delivery medium. And so now if we're talking about landing pages, let's talk about how do you make that landing page more effective? OK. So as long as you're willing to go through a little bit more effort, you can take your number Skyhigh. Let me see if this makes sense. I want to talk about in terms of what is it worth and how much time is it worth to put together. So you take your average agent, let's say they've been in business for four or five years. That agent's going to do about fifteen to twenty transactions a year. They know probably 250 to 300 people. OK. So if you take the simple statistics of 17 sales per 100 is being what's possible at 250 people. That's 40 sales a year that statistically you should be able to get from your list. Get that average agent is doing 20 transactions a year, probably no more than 10 are coming from their personal contacts. So 40 minus 10 means that there is a differential of 30 listings, 30 cells a year that the average agent is losing. But when you start to multiply that by the average commission, probably call it seven thousand dollars per cell. That's two hundred and ten thousand dollars a year over three years. That's over six hundred thousand dollars in commissions. [00:24:00] Most agents are losing. The reason I go through this is because some of this is gonna say, boy, this takes a lot of work. Well, how much work does it take to earn six? How much work does it take to lose six hundred thousand dollars? That could be your family's income rather than your competitors. This is the most important thing you can do. So as we're talking about digital marketing on a Web site, let's talk about kind of three stages of how you can do a stage. Number one, you just put some text up there. Stage number two, you put a photo of you in a house and the text and maybe a little bit audio. But the best thing would be to do it on video, because this is one of the elements we haven't gotten into yet. If you take trust trusses divide into three different segments in terms of the trust I'm talking about that causes a homeowner to choose you. And let's see if I can make sense in an analogy. I'm a homeowner. I want to sell my house. And I have two agents there. I'm friends with both of them. I would trust my kids with both of those agents. OK. So that's one element of trust. One agent I know is a brand new agent. The other age and I know is a top producer and has been a top producer for 10 years. I trust them both equally, socially, both. Which one am I gonna trust my house to? [00:25:19] What do you think? The new agent or the top producer? [00:25:25] John, I always. I've been doing. Hope you do this one. [00:25:31] Absolutely. [00:25:32] Because I trust his expertise more. So trust is divided both by a relational trust. Have I met you? OK. But then there's two other segments of trust. And this is what we're talking about. Do I trust that you're constantly selling? And do I trust that you have the expertise? And so if I can then put myself on a video. What happens is now they get a chance to meet me just like those. Are you online looking at me right now? You start to look at this guy. OK. He looks trustworthy. He sounds trustworthy. You've never met me personally. But you can put a face and a personality and a voice and you say, I trust that guy. And that's what video can do beyond anything else. So if you would create a series for every postcard that you would have sent out if this was a postcard world. The content that you put on the postcard. Put that in a live video. So when people come to your Web site, they're able to see you here. You and you have your content underneath your video. They can read it as well. But now you're multiplying all the elements of trust. So you're more likely to get the deal making sense. [00:26:40] Yes. [00:26:42] Although you're saying a lot of stuff that we. That we believe in strongly. I have conversations about video with my clients and my my prospective clients almost daily. So it's it's it's I don't I it's always nice to hear another marketing expert who makes their living selling marketing services talking about the same thing you talk about with your clients. I've had the same results as you've had. Video is very impactful in terms of demonstrations of past success, such as testimonials, things like that. They're great. They're even better if you can take a 30 second video of a client you've just sold their home for. And put that on your Web site. Video testimonials these days in terms of demonstrations of success, almost, I would guess, in terms of inspiring response, anywhere from 10 to 15 times more effective than simply getting a written testimonial in today's world. So those things I, I, I believe in strongly and you're just you're you're going right down the you know, right down the chain. [00:27:48] Ok, well, let's hit that. That's a statistic you mentioned because it correlates with another statistic. Did you know that your personal lives. Those people who have met who are eight to 10 times more likely to do business with you than that generic list who've never met you? Did you know that? [00:28:05] I heard a lot of statistics, so, yes, probably. But continue with it. [00:28:11] So the correlation is that video testimony, they get a chance to meet the person as opposed to just read about them. And once you've met the person, that trust level goes up. And that's what I was talking about with video. Video allows him to meet you. They carry Asli even if they haven't met you in person. So that's why it's so powerful. One of the real reasons why it's so powerful. [00:28:35] So maybe you think it's step number four. [00:28:40] Yes, I agree. OK. [00:28:44] Seven. Number three. So step number three is what I was calling top of mind. And I think what you call perpetual. What? What was it? That's right. [00:28:58] And so toxify boy. [00:29:03] Ok, cool. Yeah. It's all the same thing. It is. So if you go back to a book, this is really interesting. Must you guys or some you guys may have read the book Millionaire Real Estate Agent by Gary Keller. Okay. And he talks about this thing called mindshare dominance. But the source of that content was a book written in the 1980s by Al Rees and his partner. And is called Positioning. And what it says is that the homeowner, the consumer can only remember two or maybe three brands at one time. And so if you're in a market where you got kinds of brands, which we are in real estate, then that typical homeowner is gonna remember typically two or three agents. And if you're not one of those two or three, you're not even going to get a chance at the deal. And so that's talking about a lot. In large part. Top of mind. And the key is, how do you stay top of mind? And I was doing a training recently for a large brokerage office and a broker guy named Dave was in there. And we're talking on the subject. Top of mind. I was asking him, are all coaches the same? And he said, yes. And you guys know the architecture is probably not just for those listeners out there. [00:30:18] I said, OK, so let me see if this makes sense. So I send you an email. OK. And that email says it's summertime. I hope you have a good summer. Or I could show up at your house unexpectedly and say, hey, my wife baked you guys some cookies. We just love your friendship and just wanted to bless you. I was in the area. Hope you enjoy these cookies. You're telling me that both of those touches are equal impact? I'm telling you, they're not. So what you have is to stay top of mind. You've got to constantly be in front of people. But the question is, how can you be in front of them without overdoing your welcome? And what I say back to your original question, Jonathan. What do most agents do wrong when they do? Top of mind. One of the things that they do wrong is they think it's an email campaign, that any email works. And so they go by an e-mail campaign off the shelf or they use one that their company provides and they think this is all you need to stay top of mind. The challenge is sometimes you may not know it, but you're actually ticking your prospect off rather than increasing value. So I see you laughing right there, Jonathan. [00:31:26] The guy I got to tell you a story, I bought a house recently and my loan officer day puts me on this drip email campaign. And I get so frustrated I'm actually at a market. I created a folder on my computer. Stupid emails series. Yeah. And I don't even read them. I just fly them in that folder because I'm going. Are you serious? You're actually sending me this. [00:31:49] You just bought baby food. You turn on the poles. [00:32:02] Well, almost. So let me see. Let me let me take a guess. You get a lot of e-mails every day. Is that right? Jonathan? [00:32:09] Heidi. OK. Absolutely. OK. When you get an e-mail that adds no value to you. Is that a pleasant experience or a negative experience? [00:32:22] Somebody used to do. [00:32:24] We keep seeing this girl, a Muslim. I apologize. I find it a little bit annoyed. [00:32:34] Yes, yes, exactly. So that's what these are. I get so many e-mails, I can't manage it. And so, like, one of the e-mails says how to clean pillows. [00:32:42] I don't care about cleaning pillows. Or another e-mail says it's summertime and open. This is this picture that says, enjoy your summer. I'm going. You wasted my time for that. And so what happens is, is looks like you people are going to unsubscribe. They're gone hardily. But they're getting this negative impression saying you're violating my space because you're not adding value. So when you do a touch, you've got to look at what adds value to that homeowner. And the more that you can add value, the more frequently you can touch them. [00:33:14] So we have a client that I think from an e-mail series. Hasbro has broken the code on this. He touches his list weekly 52 times a year. If he misses an email, they actually email him back and say, Stuart, we didn't get that e-mail. Can you please send it this week on this date? And when you've got your people wanting what you have so much that they recognize when they don't get it, then you've got a touch system that allows you to stay always in front of them and keep driving value. [00:33:48] You have a quote. [00:33:49] Can you tell me? Yes, I did. Whew. [00:33:55] Ok, good. That's the response I want to get. So it's all consumer facing, not real facing. And what he found is human interest stories. Do you remember the radio announcer, Paul Harvey? Does that ring a bell? [00:34:19] Yeah. But. [00:34:36] Okay. So human interest stories, if I can share something that someone can read in the go. This is wonderful. It makes my heart feel good. I'm ready to take the day to day. Then they look forward to it like a cup of coffee. Okay. But when you send them garbage that has no value, then it becomes a negative impression. So, as you say, to stay top of mine, you've got to find those things that are going to be positively received rather than negative. And the more positive they are, the more frequently you can touch them. So, my friend. Okay. He let me tell you who let me tell you a lot about him, because it's really amazing. He does 80 to 100 transactions a year on 35 to 40 hours a week. He doesn't work weekends and he rarely works evenings. And the way he is done and he's figured out I can educate them my expertise and I can touch them all the time. And between trust and top of mind, they just fly to him. And that's the third pillar is this whole concept. They just ain't top of mind. And there are lots of things you can do. The email stuff is one, but there's a lot of other things that you can apply the process. Does this add value? [00:35:50] Then you'll always stay top of mind. [00:35:53] Those soon, those subject that we punched in our previously internal discussions, when we get back to the building at least slightly, I kind of have a really whole my personal, my kind of people that we've been talking about through this interview, though apart. And then there's others that you need to set your list. I mean, send them send them relevant information or e-mail the postcard. It doesn't really matter. We've crunched, haven't we? It's the message that really matters. [00:36:38] But it does. But I, I. Did I miss it? We have a couple of specific examples. Do you happen to know what he what he specifically said 52 times a week? I merely touched on the broad category. [00:36:53] I can show you. I can show you examples of Mamo Royte work. [00:36:58] You're killing me. I want I want you here to hear it like an example or two. [00:37:03] Ok, so you're example. Here's an example. Starts off a story. Starts off first person. My dad was a storekeeper and we lived above our store. And I was good in school and good in math. And then my dad encouraged me to go to this music area, music facility. And I started to learn music. And I really enjoyed music. And by the time I got to high school and graduating high school, I had a choice to make. Do I go into and pursue math or do I go in and pursue music? [00:37:38] And I didn't know which way to go. And I talked to my dad and my dad said that, you know, you can only sit in one chair, pick a chair, you want to sit in for the long term and pursue that. He said, well, I decided to go into music then. So I started to pursue pursue music. [00:37:59] And after 10 years, I was able to go to the Carnegie Hall. A few years later, I was able to perform before the pope. And he starts listing all of these places and you go, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh. And at the bottom, it's signed Pavarotti. Okay, so it's one of those things that you it draws you in. And it's a good feeling. Wow. And maybe somewhere in that comment, someone made a comment. Oh, Pavarotti. You know, I wish I could do music like you. I'd give anything to be like you. And give my life to do it. And he looked at her and said I did. [00:38:39] Ok, so those are the type of human interest stories I'm talking about, things that e-mails, things like that 52 times a week. [00:38:47] We're not talking like home improvements and we're not talking in the local home values. We're talking something else almost. [00:38:56] But 52 times a week might be a little overkill. Ah, sorry. I really. [00:39:05] It's very early in the morning for me. [00:39:07] I am nocturnal book lover. Oh. About Ruby. But we're real. You are. I totally understand where you're coming from. [00:39:22] But I just want to put just to tell the audience, this is these are these are people that you have to trust and you're sending them. Content that is trust building and interesting. But that's why you need to certain you have a really quality list. And I have a big list. And then the people you send, this will be a smaller segment. Some other parts you'd least you probably wouldn't seem some use in speech, which would be more traditional, which is more about if they're actually in the process of buying or selling a house. But some good concern, Robert just mentioned is probably too soon. What do you think? Oh, my waffly there. [00:40:18] I think you're right. You know, they're only going to want to receive the e-mail from you initially that they know you and they're gonna open it. And if you're just a stranger, it's not as effective. But what's interesting is if it's content they want, then whether they know you're really well or know you just casually. If they like the content, they're going to appreciate it. And that's the cool thing with this. If I can give you what you want, then whether I'm a close friend or a distant friend, you'll still want to receive it. And that's where the whole value proposition comes in. [00:40:55] Phone unsustained e-mail marketing really is just like get a lot of e-mail when I know a lot of the guys signed up for and signed up to fast and not even remember that were signed by Bob Lonas. They have a really easy way of describing them. [00:41:17] I have a section of people that see me that I really see as experts in marketing that that's why I'm interested in Facebook and WordPress, though they are my interests and they send me email and I don't read it all. But I'll choose not to unsubscribe because I know that maybe that particular e-mail wasn't totally interesting. Look, pretty good confidence that the MC female will have something interesting to me. What do you reckon about that? [00:41:48] I did the same thing. There are some e-mails that I rarely read, but I don't unsubscribe because there is enough value over time that I go, wow, that can help me with my business. And so I buy an entirely with what you're talking about, around what you eat, what you said at the beginning of this conversation round. [00:42:08] Trust me. [00:42:09] That's all it is. It is trust. It's that expertise. And yet when you really boil it down for all of this, comes back into that great big cauldron, is do they perceive you as giving them the value they want? Because we're all value seekers and and their ultimate saying, if I'm going to buy a house, buy a car, hire a person, go on on a date, whatever it is, ultimately it's I've got a certain thing of value. I'm looking for something I desire out of that. And if you can show me that you can deliver for me, then I'm going to be more likely to do business with you. [00:42:48] I mean, it was of great summary. I think we're going to wrap it up because you're getting a lot of phone calls. But there we go. But probably are we going to wrap it up? It's been a fascinating conversation. [00:42:59] We'll be back next week. I think we will be with very internal show where we be continue our ongoing on going series of FCO. Part three. [00:43:12] And thank you so much for being our guests. It's been fantastic. [00:43:17] Lovely meeting you. Love this conversation. [00:43:20] You will be coming back. We'll see you next week, folks. Bye. [00:43:26] If you've enjoyed this podcast, be sure to subscribe to it so you never miss another episode. Also, if you want an easy way to grow your business, check out agent dominated. Guarantee listings and sales from past clients and sphere of influence. Geographic farming and commercial investment properties. If you don't get the sales, we promise we'll give your money back. Learn more on our Web site. Get cellar's calling you dot com. And Select Agent Dominator from the menu. Thanks for listening to the Get Sellers calling you podcast and have a great day. P067 [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

The Art of Opportunity: Know Your WhyHave you ever thought about an organization as a living entity? Think about it. Much like our bodies’ organizations, as Parker Lee describes, are “living, breathing networks with integrated holistic systems that will thrive in a networked fashion” and can build the necessary defenses to fight off any type of invasion or, in their case, innovation—making it challenging to enact even the slightest change.Parker Lee, Global Managing Partner at Territory Global, says it’s essential that companies are clear about their WHY: the reason(s) they want to enact change. He joins Paul for a conversation about the Work Forward movement and how Territory helps companies structure a plan of action (the HOW), and provides insight on how the future of work can be embraced today.Connect with Parker:LinkedInThe Art of Opportunity: How to Build Growth and Ventures Through Strategic Innovation and Visual Thinking (by Marc Sniukas, Parker Lee, Matt Morasky)Learning Done Right & Done RemotelyContact TerritoryWork Forward: Get InvolvedTranscript of this episodeParker Lee:I'm so tired of people talking about the future of work because the future can be achieved right now. It's not about the let's look way out there and maybe we'll get there, or what new shiny little toys are there. It's about taking advantage of all the different tools, and approaches, and resources, et cetera that exist today.Introduction:There's a revolution taking place right now. Talent and intelligence are equally distributed throughout the world, but opportunity is not. The talent economy: the idea that at the center of work is the talent, is the individual.Paul Estes:Companies today face a global war for talent. High-skilled talent is demanding flexibility around the way they work and the way they live. This podcast brings together thought leaders, staffing experts, and top freelancers to talk about the evolving nature of work and how companies can navigate these changes to remain competitive, drive innovation, and ensure success. Welcome to The Talent Economy Podcast. I'm your host, Paul Estes.Today, my guest is Parker Lee, managing partner at Territory Global. Parker joins us today to discuss a new way of working and the impact that a collaborative, co-creative working environment can have on both talent and the organization.Parker Lee:As you said, I'm managing director at Territory. I love speaking about working forward transformation, about helping people and teams achieve better outcomes and results.Paul Estes:Now, before we get into your organizational behavior background, long-range planning, your journey to Territory Global is quite an interesting one, to say the least. Tell me a little bit about your love for music and how that took you to Caesars Palace.Parker Lee:I had been in music and passionate about it since a little boy and played piano and trumpet. And then all through school, drum major of the Cal Aggie Marching Band when I was at UC Davis. Formed my own little madrigal group, had a barbershop quartet, did a lot of singing, and that. Upon getting out of UC Davis, broke my parents' heart when I told them instead of being president of the United States, I was going to sing on the streets of San Francisco and I was a busker.That led to getting a night in a club, and then multiple nights, then quitting my job and doing that. We became the number one club act, did five national tours, got on MTV. It was a remarkable experience.I figured at that point in your life, if... You can't do that when you have a family and later, so I said, "Now's the time." It was remarkable. It was a very different time than it is right now.Paul Estes:It was back when MTV actually played music on television, right?Parker Lee:That's the only way we got the video on the... They needed content, and it was all they do. It was a running video, quote, "show." So it was their very beginning, and it was a blast. This was in '80, '81, somewhere in there.I did find the love of my life, got married, had our first child. I went out on tour at three months. Came back at six months, and my daughter rolled over in the crib when I walked into the room and started crying. I said, "That's it. I'm out."The next day, I got a phone call from a friend of mine from UC Davis who had gotten a job at Caesars Palace. He had engineered a transition there to be in charge of advertising, entertainment, and PR, and he needed somebody he could trust. He picked up the phone and called me and said, "Would you come down and run the entertainment department of Caesars Palace?" I interviewed, said, "There's no way," and then he said, "You don't get it, Parker. It's the same thing you've been doing. You just need to put butts in the seats. That's the goal. Just a few more zeros after the contracts from what you've been doing." I went, "Okay, I'm in."It was amazing. I was able to take advantage of my passion for arts, and performing, and entertainment. I met Frank Sinatra on my first day on the job, and Diana Ross, Rodney Dangerfield, Tom Jones, Wayne Newton, Crosby, Stills & Nash, James Brown, et cetera. Some are still alive, some aren't. But it was great. Then I did the special events. Grand Prix auto racing in the parking lot, boxing matches. It was insane.Paul Estes:How did you get from that to really understanding organizations and how collaboration and co-creative working environments unlock innovation?Parker Lee:My passion when I was in school was... and I wrote my own major because that's what I wanted to understand better... was in organizational development, long-range planning, and organizational design. I started studying it. Because there wasn't a program there, UC Davis had a way where you could write your own major. So I was just researching on my own.I said the form of education is actually flawed greatly because it has just rote learning and you just regurgitate back stuff that you're passed passively. I said, "There is a better..." You have to be engaged. Learning is lifelong. Learning is not passive, it's active.I had an idea for a research center on campus run by students that would enable students to get grants for doing independent learning and to do programs that would enhance education and their community and have engagement. I got a grant, one of only two student grants from the federal government, and that program was started. So my passion started in school. I just took a little detour in music.Now, that said, while in music and then I went into sports marketing, I still was studying and watching how do organizations improve, find engagement, do planning, do transformation, change management, build innovative programs. I left that life when... Just like Jerry Maguire, I was a sports agent briefly. I got fired, came back to the Bay Area at the beginning of technology, and started getting into how do you grow small businesses, entrepreneurial businesses. How do you start them, grow them, manage them, do the sales and marketing, do the business development, and do the innovation programs? I've been doing that for now 25 years.Paul Estes:Now, when you look at organizations and the rise of technology and distributed teams, I mean, one of the things we talk about on this podcast often is sort of anti the construct of an organization. Not completely, but it starts to push against this idea of a hierarchical organization. How do you see the evolution of organizations in the work that you do today or from when you first started studying this in college up to today?Parker Lee:Well, it's funny. In college, and you've got to keep in mind, I was in school in the '70s, which brands me right there for the use of alternative ways of getting enlightenment. However, while there, one of the things that came into my brain was organizations are living. They are organisms. They're alive so that they... They have systems, they have processes, they have a life cycle, and they have to have everything moving in an integrated fashion for health and growth. I think that still holds true. There are in fact books now called The Living Organization and other things.So it is seeing them as not hierarchical, as linear, but seeing them as integrated holistic systems-based groups that will thrive in a networked fashion. The infusing of technology in that is what has put it on steroids, where there is the capability of doing this even more effectively now, I believe.Paul Estes:What are some examples where you think in your studies, in the journey that organizations have gotten this concept right? Where they've looked at an organization not as an org chart per se, but sort of a living, breathing network.Parker Lee:I sadly can think of a few on a huge multinational basis that have done it well. There are bright lights of that and pockets of it where they'll start innovation programs, or teams of people operate in a Holacracy or in an integrated team-based approach that is flat, that relishes and encourages experimentation, that uses remote working to its advantage.But I don't know any organizations of the large ones that are doing it. There are many startups that do this. Part of that is scale. It's hard. The larger you get, the more you are building rigor mortis into the organization, just because like a body, it naturally fights innovation, because innovation is like an invasion coming into the well-oiled parts of your body that's invading it. It's finding a way to not make that so it's a negative disruption, but it's a positive disruption, I think.Paul Estes:In your work, what are some of the things that you coach organizations on as they aspire to have a more innovative or co-collaborative environment? Because I've experienced companies saying, "I want innovation. I want all of these things," and then when you actually go to put the program in place, I think to the point you made earlier, it's like an invasion. It is so foreign to the living body of the large organization, that they didn't know what they were getting into.Parker Lee:Yeah, you're exactly right. This comes into our transformation practice, change management, et cetera. It is destined to fail if there is not. There are a few key things that have to happen. Support from the top. If there is no full endorsement and backing and understanding at the very top leadership, executive leadership, it'll fail, because you'll be creating something below it, and it starts to rise and it gets squashed. Either budgets pulled away, people get moved to other areas, and it falls apart. I've seen that half a dozen times. That's number one.Number two, it can't be done by a consultant. The consultant can be the Sherpa or the guide and help, but it has to be organically bred, and developed, and nurtured internally, which means there has to be... And there's another part of it. There needs to be a shared vision. Where are we going? Why do we want to get there? There has to be an understanding of what are the resources required internally and externally to get there. There has to be an understanding of what are the things that are going to prevent us from getting there. Which can be anything from systems, process, technology, talent, any of that. And there has to be a plan. It takes resources to do this. It takes focus and resources. It's like running a campaign that has... It should have a start and a stop. There have to be measures. How do we know when we're going to get there? What does it look like when we get there? How do we know as we're progressing, and measure that?Those are some of the key elements, but most organizations will look at that academically but then can't put it into practice. That's where it will fail.Paul Estes:Sometimes, companies don't know why. When you talk to companies and you outline all of the items that you just mentioned, how many of them actually know the why behind what they're aspiring to do?Parker Lee:The five whys, as we say. Very few. Usually, that needs to be established obviously right at the get-go, because there has to be a case for change. There's a compelling reason. Sometimes, it's external factors. Sometimes, it's internal. More commonly, it's a combination of the two. But that needs to be understood, otherwise, you can't garner the champions or the advocates. That's another thing that has to happen.When you're breeding this internally within the organization, again, it can't be done by a consultant. There have to be people that have the passion, have the understanding, and have the "This is why we have to do this." There has to be a reason to do it. It’s oftentimes our culture, it’s toxic, or it has to be competition coming in, or the world around us is changing way too rapidly, and if we don't, we're going to be ostriches with our heads in the sand. It's usually a combination of all of those, and then clearly seen, so that now build a plan, design a plan.But it's designed by the people in the org. They have to get it. Because it's the context of the organization that drives how you're going to accomplish it.Paul Estes:Now, you talked about the high-level management buying it. So the main leader who's going to give permission for a team to do maybe work differently. Maybe say, "Hey, look, this team's going to work in a distributed fashion. We're going to bring on-demand people into the organization so we can get the expertise that we need to accomplish this goal." How do you educate those middle managers that are going to be impacted? Because now you're asking them to do something new and, to your comment earlier, to do something risky. There's an old saying that no one was ever fired for hiring IBM, right? I mean, just that-Parker Lee:Amen. There you go.Paul Estes:... general idea. So middle managers are not, in many cases, incented to embrace new ideas. What do you tell those groups when you actually go and implement an innovation program from Territory?Parker Lee:That's one of the rocks, one of the barriers that has to be gotten around as you look at the culture of the organization and the decision-making process and governance understanding. There needs to be an acknowledgment from upper management, middle management, and the people that are actually doing all the work that that situation exists. Then you create tools and processes, and endorsements, and systems that will give them an alternative path, and reinforce that, and reward it.It will be different with every organization. Sometimes, it's literally in the compensation system. Sometimes, it's in the technology that's used. Sometimes, it's in the way that they conduct meetings. Sometimes, it's in the actual workflow and governance of how work is approved, and executed, and delivered. All of that is... Again, it comes back to this holistic look at it with the organization determining what those are.What we found, though, it's very few organizations that have the knowledge and understanding. So how do you do that? The how is the most important part. That's where you usually do bring in somebody like Territory or otherwise, that says, "We've done this in lots of places. Here are the best practices. Now, which ones are going to work for you? You decide you embrace it. We'll help you build some of the tools, but you're the ones that are going to have to pick up that hammer and start putting together that new house. It's not us." Otherwise, it doesn't stick.Paul Estes:I want to plug your book because when we first met, I got a copy of it, The Art of Opportunity. If people have not seen the book, it's more of a practitioner's guide to finding opportunities than it is a textbook that I would read. One of the things that stuck out to me is how visual it was.When I was going through the book, it explains to me how to think about driving transformation and change, but in a very visual language. I know you're also passionate about design thinking. Tell me a little bit about what inspired the book and how you think of innovation as it relates to visual thinking.Parker Lee:It's crucial. Humans are visual creatures since cave people. It's how we... You drive, you may find you do everything. Storytelling is one of our core areas. We believe you'll accelerate understanding, clarity, action by having visualization in there.In the book, we have five key principles. One of them is visualization and storytelling. So we practice what we preach in saying, "It will help you get to that goal, or objective, or outcome faster, better." And it brings people along because storytelling is very emotional. It gets to a different place in your brain. Because we believe in that as a core principle, we said, "We have to have the book emulate that." That's why we designed it in a visual way. The table of contents is a reader's journey, so you see what you're going to experience, what you're going to use, and get there.We use that in everything that we do: in how we engage with our customers and our clients from the very first conversation to the end of it, to the deliverables. It's because it's what we believe is more effective and impactful.Paul Estes:It was also a very approachable book, the topics in the book around opportunity and business model. I mean, there were some meaty topics in the book, but the book itself was approachable. Like you said, it took me through a journey that says, "Hey, problem-solving." It was a visual journey on problem-solving, which I found very interesting and very engaging. So if there's anyone who is thinking about innovation and thinking about transformation, The Art of Opportunity is a good starting point.I also found myself jumping into different places and being equally as engaged no matter where I landed. So it was kind of an interesting experience as compared to sort of a standard business book.Parker Lee:By intent, designed that way. It's funny, even one of our senior facilitators just picked it up recently and used it for one of the engagements he had, where he cherry-picked three or four of the activities that are in there. Because he was able to put them together in a very different pattern, but use them to get the outcomes that he needed to achieve. So it's fun that you're able to let people kind of use it in their own context. That was another intent, it's saying, "You may be a startup, you may be a huge multinational. There isn't a prescriptive path. Here are lots of jewels, and gems, and ideas. Put them together in your own pattern."Paul Estes:Yeah, the patterns in the book were, I think, one of the things that resonated with me because I've been in both large companies and small companies. There were a lot of commonalities and like you said, brain food in the book… that made me think… so it's a great workbook.On Territory's LinkedIn page, it states that Territory helps you break free of well-worn yet ineffective or unsatisfying approaches to problem-solving. Help me be specific. What are the ones today or this year or last year that you see next year that are the main challenges blocking organizations from really taking advantage of opportunity?Parker Lee:I believe it's in conducting business in the same way and thinking it will give you the same outcomes. We've had a lot of strategy sessions where they have us do, an offsite or otherwise, and we attack that even in the practice what we preach, where we say, "We are basically facilitating their ability to observe and see the obstacles, the barriers, and the context of the world as it's working, both in the organization and outside them, to then lay a path for what are the critical initiatives we have to undertake for us to succeed." So it is in a combination of strategy.I think the other thing that we're all seeing right now is, with coronavirus, et cetera, a lot of heat and spotlight on remote working. It's how do we weave that into the way of having teams be more effective? One of our core principles is about diversity, and not just in diversity of race or other, it's the diversity of thought and diversity of personality in ways of thinking. That implies team-based. With a more diverse team, you have better outcomes, because it makes the ideas... They become battle-tested, and new ideas will surface. That's some of the other stuff that we try to put forward is bring in a group. Our approach, in what you were describing and what Territory says, is much of it workshop-based, whether it's remote or in person, it's visual-based, and it's taking a different tact on going after the problem that you're addressing so that you'll have a different outcome.Paul Estes:You do both in-person consulting and remote consulting. Tell me the difference between the two.Parker Lee:Radically and significantly different. We are huge proponents of remove the technology and eyeball to eyeball because we as humans thrive on the kind of social aspects of creating ideas and building off of each other, et cetera. You don't always have that luxury. With climate change and with now coronavirus, et cetera, you can't always be in the same place and take advantage of that. So the design of the experience has to change dramatically.When you can be in one place, and I think there are times when it's mandated otherwise, you take advantage of that. When you can't, you can either do the hybrid of a few pockets of people, or one group is in one place and then others dial in, or you have everybody 100% remotely. In each one of those scenarios, you design and architect the meeting differently. There are different roles that are required. Sometimes, for example, when there are more remote working, you need to ensure that there is a scribe, there's a digital manager of the technology that's going on that keeps things going, there's somebody that's taking care of questions and how to order that, there's the facilitation or lead of what's going to happen with the experience, there's the preplanning and how that's done either as a group or independently, and there's the communication of what happens in and then outside of the session. You try to get the same outcome. It's just the process has to be different and designed.Paul Estes:I think you said something really important. Actually, I experienced this earlier this week here in... We live in Seattle. My wife works at Microsoft, and everybody's working from home. For the first two days, she was getting... She's got a team. They work in Azure, the cloud. They were working in the same way that they would work at the office. You could see her coming down, getting kind of frustrated, and then she started to realize, "I need to change the way I work. I can't be in back-to-back meetings from 9:00 to 5:00," and she needed time to get up and do different things. She needed time to write things down.There's a different way of working when you're working with distributed teams. I think many organizations try to apply the way they work when they're all located in the same hallway to a distributed working environment. To your point, you have to adapt the way you work to who you're working with and the modality by which you're working.Parker Lee:Completely right. I just did a post. I'm working in our Work Forward site on writing an article about working remotely and the barriers and the challenges and how to overcome those and get there. It takes a different way of working.Paul Estes:Yeah, and we'll make, we’ll post that in the show notes. Tell me a little bit about the Work Forward Summit.Parker Lee:It came from an... I met with Jim Kalbach from MURAL. We were having a beer in New York about a year ago. I said, "I'm so tired of people talking about the future of work because the future can be achieved right now. It's not about the let's look way out there and maybe we'll get there, or what new shiny little toys are there. It's about taking advantage of all the different tools, and approaches, and resources, and time-shifting, et cetera that exist today."The other thing that I brought up is that you talk with any company, you bring up Microsoft. They say, "The future of work is Teams, and is Surface Hubs, and are in our SharePoint platform." Okay, you're smart. Then MURAL would say, "Well, it's asynchronous, synchronous creative platforms that are in the cloud." Steelcase would say, "You have to have the right physical situation." WeWork says, "Well, it's being able to be flexible and get in when you want. Sometimes together and sometimes apart." You're all pretty children. The answer is it's all of that.Paul Estes:That's right.Parker Lee:That's when we said, "Okay, so how do we tackle that and talk about it?" I said, "Well, Jim, let's bring together a group of smart people that can go through a day of trying to articulate: So what are we talking about here? What does it look like? How might we address it? And how do we maybe create the tools or the ways people can become and activate the conversation at their own organizations for what they might do about it?" That was the genesis of the Work Forward Summit. We held it last... I think it was in October. And came out with, "What does work look like? What are the work activities? What is it today? What can it be? And then what can we do about it to try to make it better?"We now have a site and we're trying to, quote, "build a movement." The people that all showed up, we finished the summit and said, "What's next? What do we do?" They all said, "There's a 'there' there. This is big. We're signing up for being a part of the founders of the movement. Let's make this thing viral and go." So there's a Work Forward site now. Go to workforward.co. That's where it is.We're just starting. I, we, Territory doesn't plan on doing all the work. It is people. Sign up on a Slack channel. We're trying to get new events, and create assessments, and build other tools, and have further delineation of what does Work Forward look like. I'm really excited about it, obviously. You can tell that, right?Paul Estes:I can.Parker Lee:Yeah. But I think there's something there for us because it is making the business of work better. That's what it is. It's not that there's a single answer. You have a passion about the gig economy, which is part of working forward, but it's the sole answer. It's a critical answer, but it's not the only part. We all have a place to play in this.Paul Estes:That's one of the things that I've liked about your work is bringing together both the physical, and the remote, and the various technologies that are all trying to give a value proposition. I like to say often the future of work is here. It's just not evenly distributed. That's how I think about it. Because I run into people that are way ahead of me, and then I run into people that are way behind me, and then I run into a lot of people who are kind of in the same ballpark that I'm in as it relates to adopting technology and really pushing against the standard ways that work gets done.Parker, thank you so much for taking time to chat with me today. If somebody wants to learn more about you, The Art of Opportunity, Work Forward, or anything else at Territory, what's the best way to get in touch?Parker Lee:We have a contact form on the Work Forward site, on Territory's site. Reach out to me on LinkedIn. Any of those would be great.Paul Estes:Sounds great. We'll keep all that information in the show notes. Thanks again.Parker Lee:It's been great. I appreciate your candor, your honesty, and your curiosity. Keep doing the work that you're doing.Paul Estes:I'm your host, Paul Estes. Thank you for listening to The Talent Economy Podcast. Learn more about the future of work and the transformation of the staffing industry from those leading the conversation at staffing.com, where you can hear from experts, sign up for our weekly newsletter, and get access to the best industry research on the future of staffing. If you've enjoyed the conversation, we'd appreciate you rating us on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts, or just tell a friend about the show. Be sure to tune in next week for another episode of the Talent Economy. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

Mai Tran, CRM Manager at Blinkist, gives us a glimpse into the Blinkist company mission behind snackable insights. We also delve into the shift we're seeing in KPI focuses, and the power of personalization and recommendation engines. *Hosted by Taylor Gibb and PJ Bruno LIVE at LTR 2019*       TRANSCRIPT: [0:00:16] Taylor Gibb: Are we recording?   [0:00:18] PJ Bruno: We're live. We are fire right now. So whenever you want to give us the kick off.   [0:00:23] Taylor Gibb: Oh, fire flames. All right, here I go. I'm going to probably say it wrong. Welcome back to Braze for Impact. Remember guys, this is the MarTech Industry Discuss Digest, and we're right in the middle of our humanities series. This means we're talking to some really interesting people who use Braze. We actually are at LTR right now recording. My name is Taylor Gibb. I'm a CSM on the Braze team. Across from me here is Mai Tran who was at Blinkist as a CRM manager. Mai, it's so good to meet you.   [0:00:53] Mai Tran: Nice to meet you too.   [0:00:55] Taylor Gibb: And to my left, as ever, we've got PJ Bruno who runs Client Education of Braze. PJ, how's it going?   [0:01:02] PJ Bruno: Very, very well. Glad to be back here with you, Taylor.   [0:01:05] Taylor Gibb: Well, excellent. You didn't see everybody, but I just got a salute from PJ. That's a new one.   [0:01:09] PJ Bruno: I was thinking about it as I did. I was like, "No one's going to hear the salute."   [0:01:12] Taylor Gibb: Oh no. When you're with me, everybody will hear the salute. I'm going to make sure to keep you honest on that one.   [0:01:17] PJ Bruno: What a pal. Friend and coworker forever.   [0:01:20] Mai Tran: Sounds great.   [0:01:20] Taylor Gibb: Oh, that's right. Mai, thank you again for joining us here today. As we've been going through this humanity series, we've been talking a lot, not only about the ways that you use Braze, your marketing tech stack, but about you, how you got to where you are right now and about the company you work for.   [0:01:36] Mai Tran: That's nice.   [0:01:36] Taylor Gibb: I know. Well, that's what we're hoping for.   [0:01:38] Mai Tran: Cool. I'll start with a little bit about myself because I think it's connected very well to how I ended up at Blinkist. I started out my career quite traditionally. I study creative writing and I wanted to work for publishing because I realized very quickly that I wouldn't be able to write so much or make a living writing, which is very, very tough.   [0:02:02] Taylor Gibb: That's a tough [crosstalk] The starving artist.   [0:02:04] Mai Tran: Exactly.   [0:02:04] PJ Bruno: Diverse the skills. I get it.   [0:02:06] Mai Tran: Exactly. Yeah. You really have to have a very specific personality to be able to pursuit art in any kind. So yeah, I decided to ... Very early on, I wanted to devote my life to supporting artists and being able to work with authors that I believe and I loved. I started on my career in publishing and it was not an easy industry to get into. It's a very old industry. A lot of things doesn't move as fast as the startup world that we have nowadays. Yeah, kind of at the one year after I graduated, I discovered Blinkist. It was a very nice discovery because I was a little bit fed up with the corporate world and how things are being done there. I started to look more into the startup world and see how people work differently, how products are being put together in a different way. Blinkist is like a happy in between, because everything that they do in terms of culture there at Blinkist, I truly love. Then on top of that, they have a product that I do believe in and it's very much connected to my heart, which is books. [crosstalk]   [0:03:31] PJ Bruno: I love that so much. So the publisher you came from, was that in Berlin as well?   [0:03:36] Mai Tran: No. I actually used to work for Random House here.   [0:03:39] Taylor Gibb: Really?   [0:03:40] Mai Tran: Yeah, in New York.   [0:03:41] PJ Bruno: Cool. Welcome back.   [0:03:42] Taylor Gibb: You're an ex New Yorker. Well, I mean once a New Yorker, always a New Yorker.   [0:03:45] PJ Bruno: For life.   [0:03:45] Mai Tran: I guess so.   [0:03:46] Taylor Gibb: But we're glad to have you back. It sounds like you move from publishing because it was, as we know, a slightly more traditional industry. You said it's more slow moving, to something that's a little techier, it is an app, a software. Blinkist does that as well, right? If I understand correctly, Blinkist is taking something that's intimidating to some people, these big, oftentimes nonfiction, tomes, quote unquote, and making them more digestible.   [0:04:12] Mai Tran: Exactly.   [0:04:12] Taylor Gibb: Can you talk a little bit more about that?   [0:04:14] Mai Tran: Yeah. So Blinkist, we like to believe that we're on a mission to be the leading destinations for the modern lifelong learner. It's a very, very nice mission statement that I always hold dear to my heart because I truly believe that our product is going to that direction. Everything we do is to help people learn more, not necessarily finding shortcuts when it comes to learning or finding shortcuts when it comes to reading, but ultimately you have to face the reality that nowadays people don't have that 10 hours in their day so that they can just sit down with a good book and read for 10 hours straight. It's not going to happen. The reading and the learning is going to happen on the subway, on your way to work. It's going to happen in the 10 minutes that you are trying to dress your kid to go to the nursery school. Yeah, and Blinkist does help those people with a very, very busy lifestyle to be able to squeeze in a little bit of learning and a little bit of reading into their day.   [0:05:21] Taylor Gibb: I love that. It's not offering shortcuts, but it's making this learning and this wisdom accessible, no matter how much time you have.   [0:05:28] Mai Tran: Exactly.   [0:05:29] Taylor Gibb: PJ, you earlier said that you were intrigued by Blinkist.   [0:05:32] PJ Bruno: I am. I mean, I unfortunately likened it to CliffsNotes, which is incorrect in terms of the mission, because CliffsNotes is like shortcut, here, now.   [0:05:42] Taylor Gibb: Right. I don't want to read Romeo and Juliet. Who dies?   [0:05:45] PJ Bruno: Exactly. They both died. Got it. Got the whole story understand it.   [0:05:48] Taylor Gibb: And we're done.   [0:05:49] PJ Bruno: But Blinkist, it's actually more distilling those valuable insights when it comes to those books. So for someone like me, I do love to read Malcolm Gladwell and Simon Sinek. But when it's not a narrative, sometimes I end up just reading the same paragraph over and over again. For some reason I will find mental blocks where I get stuck. Because in a narrative, a story can exist somewhere. Even though it's in my mind, I can feel the physical space. When you're talking conceptually about things, and Simon Sinek is just explaining page after page his thoughts, letting them unfurl. That's something that sometimes I get lost or I just get distracted. So something like this from Blinkist, it can keep me on that path. It can keep me focused. Sometimes you feel like you're waiting around for the big payoff with some of these writers, because Simon Sinek, just like all these guys, they have a general idea of their arc, of what the book should be, A, B and C. Then it's like, "It's time to stuff 80 pages in each of these." So sometimes some chapters are a little long winded. I'm just, I don't always have the patience for it. So something like Blinkist for the ... What did you call it? The forever learner or ...   [0:07:01] Taylor Gibb: Lifelong learner.   [0:07:02] Mai Tran: The lifelong learner. Yeah.   [0:07:03] PJ Bruno: So good.   [0:07:04] Taylor Gibb: Get that alliteration in there.   [0:07:06] Mai Tran: That's great.   [0:07:07] Taylor Gibb: Remind me, when did you start at Blinkist? How many years ago?   [0:07:10] Mai Tran: It's been a little bit over two years now.   [0:07:12] Taylor Gibb: That's great. Have things changed. So going from the world of publishing, where everything took a million years to move forward, I bet here things move a mile a minute. How have things changed in terms of your tech stack, in terms of even your marketing strategies since you started?   [0:07:26] Mai Tran: Well, quite a lot. When I first started, it was literally just me and another person in our team. Now we've grown to be a small team of four, but in terms of the capability of what we do within CRM has changed so much. Originally, when we first started, we focused, because we only have limited human resource. We focus a lot of things on conversion because that's what everybody cares about. That's what marketing cares about. We're under marketing at that point. I spend most of my time talking to very new users who are soon to be customers and trying to help them understand the value of Blinkist and try to find a price point that makes sense for them and convert them. It's very interesting. It's my first time working with more conversion-based communications. It's very different from the kind of work that I do at publishing. But it was very fun. I think what I appreciate the most is that it's very easy to understand that funnel, because the KPIs are very clear. You either purchase or you don't purchase.   [0:08:43] Taylor Gibb: That's true.   [0:08:44] Mai Tran: It's very simplistic in some ways. Now, about a year ago, I started to move to the engagement space because as a company, we realize that we grow in such a high pace that we started to see a drop in retention naturally, because you started to acquire more customer or more users that have less intent, doesn't understand Blinkist as well. Because of that, people are less likely to stay on for the product.   [0:09:19] PJ Bruno: Just from the general volume you guys are doing, it's balancing.   [0:09:22] Mai Tran: Exactly. Yeah.   [0:09:23] Taylor Gibb: Makes sense.   [0:09:23] Mai Tran: We decided to put a lot of focus on customer engagement and customer retention. I decided to move into that space. I thought that it's a very nice comeback to the publishing world because then, again, it's about getting people to engage with content and getting people to know what is new, what is relevant to them, et cetera, et cetera. It was very exciting for me. Then it's also a big challenge because with engagement, it's not as clear cut as conversion. There's a lot of KPIs out there. You don't know which one makes sense. You always optimize for the immediate one. So open rate, click rate, which copy makes more people engage with that content. But it's not necessarily that, because what you want to impact in the end is renewal. So how many people stay on over time? That's such a long time span that you start to test with different KPIs. Okay, what exactly is it? Is it reading five books that gets people more likely to stay? Is it spending more time in the app? Is it spending more time listening over reading? All of that is very exciting and challenging for me.   [0:10:39] PJ Bruno: Just that shift from the understanding of conversion event to being a goal to renewal, that in of itself, that's an infinite minded [crosstalk 00:00:10:50]. That's looking to the future as opposed to like, "Oh, it's ..." sometimes, I don't want to put salespeople in a bucket, but you have a quarterly goal so you obsess over that quarterly goal. Sometimes you do things that actually do not help you long term just to hit it.   [0:11:03] Mai Tran: In the long run, exactly. Yeah.   [0:11:04] PJ Bruno: So I love that you guys are looking so far down the line. It's great.   [0:11:07] Taylor Gibb: One thing I wanted to talk to you about as well, so as you are moving forward with these new KPIs and a more fleshed out, perhaps forward-looking attack towards getting users to ... Getting that retention further, how are you looking at the data? Have you guys engaged with anyone in a tech stack or are you just kind of looking at the numbers as they come through? On top of that, you spoke a little bit about actions like listening or reading books, what kind of actions are you looking for people to complete in your app that you think lead to that retention?   [0:11:42] Mai Tran: Yeah. I thought that you would ask that question.   [0:11:45] Taylor Gibb: I know.   [0:11:47] PJ Bruno: Were you scared that she would ask that question?   [0:11:49] Mai Tran: Yeah.   [0:11:49] Taylor Gibb: Oh gosh.   [0:11:49] Mai Tran: I was kind of.   [0:11:50] Taylor Gibb: Not meant to be a scary one.   [0:11:52] Mai Tran: No. It's because it's still a learning experience for us. It's very difficult to find that tipping point or to find that one key action that actually will ensure that 99% of people who does that action is going to stay on. But it's very important to find that important action. We're in the process of discovering that. We're very much at the beginning, which is to define the baseline. What we're doing now is instead of trying to artificially scale up a certain action, like read five books, not knowing if that is going to impact at all the renewal rate in the end, what we're doing now is actually spread our efforts across all different KPIs that we consider to be baseline KPIs. We're looking at everything in terms of time spent in the app, time spent actually reading or listening. We call them content consumption. Then we look at the finished rate. If you start reading something, do you finish it? If you finish it, are you more likely to stay on? Are you more likely to engage further? We also look at discovery rates. If you discover more content, are you more likely to find value in the app? Yeah, all kinds of things. One very interesting findings that we recently discover was that was variety, which is very interesting because-   [0:13:25] Taylor Gibb: That is.   [0:13:26] Mai Tran: Yeah. Personalization is all about offering up what you like, what is relevant to you based on what you've read in the past. But we've come to realize that people who read more outside of their comfort zone are more likely to renew.   [0:13:43] PJ Bruno: That's rad. That's very cool.   [0:13:44] Mai Tran: Yeah. So it's really a fine balance between, "Okay, we know what you like, and we offer you more of that." And then introducing to you more new things that we think you might like. So things like taste breakers, essentially, is also very, very interesting to us. But going back to your question, yeah, right now it's finding that baseline and seeing where that blip happened.   [0:14:11] PJ Bruno: I love that mission, the high-value-action mission, which all of us should be concerned with and doing. You said you guys are just starting your mission. The truth is it takes a long time to figure that out. Even when you figure it out, it changes.   [0:14:26] Mai Tran: You're not sure.   [0:14:26] Taylor Gibb: That's right. It's always evolving.   [0:14:27] PJ Bruno: You're not sure, it changes. Like you mentioned, you just have so much data coming in. There's so many ways to look at it and splice it. All I can say is hats off to you on doing it and best of luck in doing that, because it's huge. When you're able to discern those two to three high value actions, that three X, five X, that LTV of a customer, I mean, it's massive. It's game changing.   [0:14:50] Taylor Gibb: And surprising, it sounds like, the fact that variety has a part in all of this. It sounds like you did some testing and it's kind of fun when you're surprised by the results. That's really exciting. Final thing that I want to talk to you about a little bit here is what's on the horizon, both for you and your team and for Blinkist right now? Obviously don't talk about anything you're not allowed to. Unless we're all going to keep secrets here. But let me know what's coming up on the horizon.   [0:15:21] Mai Tran: Something that's coming up for CRM at Blinkist is, I guess, ramping up our recommendation system and really leverage connected content and personalization at Braze to bring that personalized content directly to the user, instead of waiting for them to come to the app. This is something that we literally started testing last week. I'm still waiting for results.   [0:15:48] Taylor Gibb: Oh, brand new.   [0:15:48] PJ Bruno: Exciting.   [0:15:48] Mai Tran: Yeah. I really hope it worked well Because I've heard many funny stories from our customers about personalization, because you never know how they're going to interpret that recommendation.   [0:16:03] PJ Bruno: Interesting.   [0:16:04] Mai Tran: We had one user writing in saying that, "Why are you such a racist company? No, not racist, sexist company. "Why do you offer me only female books?" We were really surprised because we don't know our user's gender. We never ask, we don't track that. Our data-   [0:16:27] PJ Bruno: So you had to respond, "This was just based on your history."   [0:16:29] Mai Tran: Exactly.   [0:16:29] Taylor Gibb: This is what you've been reading.   [0:16:31] Mai Tran: It was based on the last book that they read.   [0:16:34] PJ Bruno: Do what know what was their response after that? Do you know?   [0:16:37] Mai Tran: No. I didn't know.   [0:16:38] PJ Bruno: They were like no response.   [0:16:40] Taylor Gibb: Oh wait, no. Nevermind.   [0:16:41] Mai Tran: But yeah, so recommendation, it's really cool for us and especially being able to bring that into CRM and to be able to offer up content when it's relevant to them is what I'm looking forward to.   [0:16:55] PJ Bruno: Yeah. I mean, all I would say for connected content, I mean, it just works in terms of personalization if you set it up and if your systems are set up to handle the speed with which it's hitting it. That's when problems can occur. So make sure you're set up for speed. God, that's awesome. I'm excited for you guys.   [0:17:13] Taylor Gibb: You're you're taking a crack at CSM-ship here, PJ.   [0:17:16] PJ Bruno: I don't know.   [0:17:17] Taylor Gibb: I love to hear it.   [0:17:18] PJ Bruno: I hang out with you too much, I guess.   [0:17:19] Taylor Gibb: I think that might be the problem here. Well, best of luck to you. I'll be so excited. I'm going to start trying, I think. I will not complain if I get too many female book recommendations because now I know.   [0:17:31] PJ Bruno: It's just an algorithm.   [0:17:32] Taylor Gibb: It's just the algorithm.   [0:17:32] Mai Tran: It's just the algorithm.   [0:17:33] Taylor Gibb: It's just ... And taste breakers, who knows. Next time we talk, I'm going to be full of wisdom. I feel it.   [0:17:38] PJ Bruno: I'm going to hold you to that.   [0:17:39] Taylor Gibb: I know. We'll see. Full of something. Thank you so much for joining us.   [0:17:44] Mai Tran: Thank you for having me.   [0:17:45] Taylor Gibb: It was so great to meet you. PJ, as always, thanks for joining me here on the mic.   [0:17:49] PJ Bruno: Thanks again.   [0:17:49] Taylor Gibb: On the ones and twos. And all of you guys out there, thanks as always for dialing in. I'll talk to you later. [0:17:54]

Gil Hedley joins Tahnee on the podcast today. Gil is an anatomist and self proclaimed "Somanaut" - a person who is "dedicated to exploring the inner space of human form". Gil has encouraged thousands of fellow "somanauts" to appreciate, explore and embody the wonders of human form through his lecture presentations and hands-on human dissection courses in the laboratory. Tahnee and Gil dive deep today, exploring the intricate nature of the of these bodies we call human. The pair share their insights through the lens of anatomy, philosophy and spirituality. This one is a bit of a mind bender folks, but in the best possible way. Tune in to be taken beyond the linear understanding of the human body into the expansive realm of universal connection. Tahnee and Gil discuss: Integral vs regional anatomy, embodied understanding vs intellectual analysis. The heart as a factual vessel not a 'pump'. Taoist sexuality and sexual anatomy. Religion and spirituality. The intricacy and non symmetrical nature of the human form. The human body as a whole, each individual as a cellular representation of the whole - the universal body. Martial Arts and the textural foundations of the body. The fascial system.   Who is Gil Hedley? Gil Hedley is an anatomist and certified Rolfer who holds a PhD in theological ethics. Gil's combined interests and training have supported his personal and professional exploration of the human body, which has lead him to develop an integral approach to the study of human anatomy. Through hands-on human dissections courses in the laboratory and lecture presentations, Gil has encouraged thousands of fellow "somanauts" to appreciate, explore and embody the wonders of human form. Gil has authored a number of books, as well as produced The Integral Anatomy Series, a set of four feature-length videos documenting his whole body, layer-by-layer approach through on-camera dissection.   Resources: Gil's Website Gil's Facebook Gil's Youtube   Gil's Free Online Courses   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast?   A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Tahnee:   (00:08) Hi everybody. Welcome to the SuperFeast Podcast. Today I'm really excited to introduce Gil Hedley, who's joining us from Colorado. Hi Gil.   Gil Hedley:   (00:15) Hi, Tahnee.   Tahnee:  (00:16) Nice to have you here with us.   Gil Hedley:   (00:18) And everybody listening.   Tahnee:  (00:19) Yeah, the whole listening world. Gil is the founder of Integral Anatomy and he's a really amazing anatomist and somanaut which is a great word that I'd love for you to explain for us later if that's okay. But also you've studied theology and you have a PhD in theology. Is that correct?   Gil Hedley:   (00:37) Theological ethics, actually, yeah.   Tahnee:  (00:38) Okay. And you've done some rolfing things. You've kind of got this interesting mix of I guess the spiritual, and the tangible physical, and then obviously, like through the hands-on human dissection that you do. I feel like that's such an interesting combination of worlds to weave. But what I've seen you express, I suppose is this really beautiful and profound philosophy that I guess has arisen through your physical dissections and actual extractions of human form. But how does one go from actually doing theology, which I understand is like the study of religions and theological ethics, which is I suppose, I saw your piece on marriage. Is this around the role religion plays and how we create ethical constructs in our society. Is that right?   Gil Hedley:  (01:28) That's exactly right. Yeah, exactly. Looking to see the moral systems that are rooted in religions. So that's my master's degree. It was in the study of religion. My BA was also in the study of religion, and my PhD. All ethics throughout actually, I was studying ethics throughout. But basically, yeah, looking at ethics is a meta study where you look at people's ways of being in a world and trying to see how they reason about their moral-   Tahnee:  (02:05) Conduct sort of thing.   Gil Hedley:  (02:05) Conducts, and preferences, and choices, right? So.. And then theological ethics is where you look specifically to the moral systems of religious systems and ask like, "How do they come to believe that? What's their rationale for holding that position," or what have you. So actually, I brought my spirituality to the University of Chicago, certainly didn't get it from it. In fact, when I showed up, they're like, "What are you talking about God? we don't know God," because it's a very academic and abstract mental place.   Gil Hedley:  (02:37) That sort of intentionally drives you out of your body. My attempt to claim a body there was, was amusing I think, to my professors. I started doing Tai Chi and then I learned massage and rolfing while I was in my PhD program, in my own effort to just ground myself because I felt that although grounding was not a appreciated pursuit in my field, actually quite the opposite. I felt that it was ridiculous to try and come to moral positions or study ethics about the body, for instance, and make rules and such about the body or even evaluate rules about the body without knowing what a body is, or even living in one because it wasn't really valued to actually live in your body at the University of Chicago. I went into Tai Chi to try and just ground myself and get a little physical and explore my movement and such. I went to massage training and my rolfing training.   Gil Hedley:  (03:46) I got a little more body connection. I kind of realised that I couldn't speak to the body without having a more intimate understanding of the body. Before you knew it, I wasn't so much into the rolfing thing as I was into the anatomy that was helping me be a good rolfer. I sort of switched my career choice out of the rolfing upon the shoulders of which I continue to stand and into the the body exploration in the laboratory, where I found myself swimming in a universe that both terrified me and compelled me completely.   Gil Hedley:  (04:28) I found that when folks found out what I was doing, friends and other people, I was in a healing school as well after my rolfing training, did five years in an energetic healing school, kind of psychodynamics and energy healing and that kind of thing. My friends were like, "Teach us anatomy." I was like okay. I kind of told them what was going on in the lab. When I was in the lab, I kind of brought the energy of the healing school to that. That's much more how spirituality made its way into my anatomy laboratory as opposed to anything I ever got at the University of Chicago studying theological ethics, where I basically just fought the popes in Latin. It wasn't really particularly spiritual.   Tahnee:  (05:15) Well, and religion has such a history of denying the body because I mean ...   Gil Hedley:  (05:20) Exactly.   Tahnee:  (05:21) Do you have anything to say to that? Because I mean, I've got lots of thoughts on that.   Gil Hedley:  (05:25) Absolutely I mean the ease with which I engaged in the intellectual pursuits at the university and in graduate school was grounded, it was founded I should say, in my own disconnection to my body that was definitely fostered by my religious upbringing as a Roman Catholic. With all due respect to Roman Catholics, some of my best friends are Roman Catholics, my mum for instance, the modelling of the body in the church that I was raised in as liberal and 1960's kumbaya religion that I was raised with, still had a beloved saviour crucified, right, as the model of the body, and a virgin mother of him. So when you put those two together, you start scratching your head. You don't even have to scratch your head.   Gil Hedley:  (06:24) It's so deep. It goes in so deep to your psyche and to your way of moving, literally it affects how you move when your heroes, when your spiritual heroes, are naked but murdered and his mother weeping at the foot of the cross, actually never had sex, according to the story. So this is strange, and it's a strange way to model by the people you value most are void and have broken their bodies and offer their bodies as a sacrifice etc. When you take that seriously and I did, I took it so seriously, I got a PhD teaching Catholic ethics.   Gil Hedley:  (07:06) You get massively conflicted around your body and around your body's urges, around sexuality, around physicality, and many people just never worked through that. I've actually used the study of anatomy and the exploration of movement through something like Tai Chi for years. Then just like life and sex and family to become embodied. So that when I speak an anatomy word, it's not just an intellectual thing for me. I have a relationship with that tissue, an intimate relationship with a tissue. I know what it feels like, I know where it is. I can go there. I can call out its name and it calls back to me with sensation. So that's the embodiment that I've pursued and it's their integral anatomy.   Tahnee:  (08:02) So do you feel like there's this deeper sense of like introception and self-awareness, I suppose through the work that you've done, like it hasn't? Because I think a lot of people-   Gil Hedley:  (08:13) Yeah, I can go in there.   Tahnee:  (08:15) Let's go. Yeah. Because I mean, I see a lot of people. I've done a little bit of work in wet labs and stuff. It's almost like people become disconnected from the body when they do that work. It becomes this body I guess.   Gil Hedley:  (08:29) There's a risk of that when the approaches is regional and not integral. That's why I've developed integral anatomy because a regional anatomy, when you're parsing the body out literally into parts, bits, pieces, naming them, that's an intellectual process. It's a mental construct, and it doesn't have a whole lot to do with what's in front of you. But if you give a little time for the body to talk to you and tell it a bit about itself, and this was kind of my point as an ethicist was I keep learning about people and systems that are ordering the body around. They haven't even stopped to listen to what it has to say, or how it's organised, and what it might speak to the moral life because it's the moral life is lived, is a bodily lived experience.So what does the body speak to that? Because if the body is a gift and not a curse, then it can possibly inform the moral life rather than be its subjugated-   Tahnee:  (09:25) Vehicle of fear almost. Yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (09:28) And bedraggled partner or servant or mule as it were. Yeah, so if you're just doing regional anatomy, you really do run the risk of of getting disconnected. When you come into a lab and the body's head, and hands, and feet are wrapped, and they're faced down, and you never connect with them as even though the housing of a person but it's just like you're on day one of medical school. You're told to go in and find the integration of the trapezius muscle, meaning you have to hack a panel out of the skin, superficial fascia, deep fascia, flip the muscle over, find the nerve, then you get your A. Now, what happened to you in the process, right?   Gil Hedley:  (10:16) So chances are, you're disconnected or as I bring people into a room, we stand around the table holding hands in a circle. We give thanks and we bring ourselves into a state of appreciation. We acknowledge that this form is a gift, and this is came from a person who had an intention or the family who has an intention. We look them in the eye, and we sit them up, and we stand them up, even and we meet them in a vertical so that we can we can acknowledge, "Oh, this isn't just some dead body. This was someone's body." It's not a person on the table by any means. I'm not a surgeon. I don't work on living persons.   Gil Hedley:  (10:58) But I do work on the artefacts, and the footprints, and the old shoes of persons. I learned a lot about them as a result of that. I learned more about myself, my own fears, my own disconnections. I invite the people in the room to constantly, step up to that mirror and look in it. And see, do you hate what you see in the mirror? Do you love what you see in the mirror? Do you hate some of it and love some of it? Some of it you can't even see because it's literally outside of your ability to see. So I try and help people to see more. Then to just observe what their relationship is to what they see. Because if it's unappreciative, I'm going to work my hardest to to point out aspects of appreciation that can bring that person into a positive relationship with the gift that's in front of them and hopefully the gift that they're walking around with.   Tahnee:  (11:54) I had a close friend about maybe 2013, do your training in San Francisco. She sent me these emails while she was there, and it was like witnessing a breakdown, and then a breakthrough, and then this kind of rebuilding of her identity. I mean, I just looked at them again, when I knew I was going to talk to you. I remember them, they was so visceral for me when I wasn't there. I can feel how visceral it was for her and this process of spending six days, going back to her hotel alone and just processing. I think about how we're so removed from natural processes, death, birth, like all of these things.   Tahnee:  (12:36) I remember when I had my daughter, I had an experience meditating where I could almost feel this energy stream between her and I. Even though I was across the room from her. I remember reading in one of your posts about like fat being the fascia, sorry being the receiver like a transmitter of energy. I could feel how like my body had softened so that I could have this deep connection with her. I think those little little insights, they just they change your experience so much. How could I hate my chubbiness? If I was deeply connected to my little baby.   Tahnee:  (13:14) I mean, for me, that was just such a beautiful, getting even emotional talking about it. It was such a beautiful change because I've spent my whole life with eating disorders and various forms of that even if they weren't avert. That's what I saw with Kate, her respect for her body and for her students and how she was able to just see differently, I can just imagine you must have these huge transformational experiences going on every day in your work, right?   Gil Hedley:  (13:44) At least in my courses, I definitely set them up as opportunities for transformation and healing, I like to say that my classes are transformational, not traumatic. Because I mean, I was brought into gross anatomy laboratory when I was 17 years old in high school and in an advanced biology class. The guy who took us around the lab, at the Harlem School of Pediatry was basically like John Belushi, it was a joke. He was going to make us laugh and we did laugh, but it was simultaneously horrifying.   Gil Hedley:  (14:22) There were bags of feet on shelves around the room. There were hammy pelvis and legs lying on the table. He's yanking on tendons, showing, making toes move like a chicken. I didn't eat chicken for two years after that visit to the lab. It made a tremendous impression on me. When I came to study in a lab myself, I was like, the fact of the matter is that when you enter the laboratory, you actually go into altered states of consciousness, just by dint of the circumstances.   Gil Hedley:  (14:48) So you don't need to take anything magic to have your consciousness altered when you go into the lab. If you're brought in mindfully, with consciousness and awareness. I felt and do feel a keen responsibility when I have a room full of people in an altered state of consciousness instead of to jerk them around or mess with them, to serve them. From my Catholic upbringing, I have a service mentality. That's my ethics. That's my religion, my religion is service, right? That's the core of my own ethical structure. I do take the opportunity to serve the people in their altered states of consciousness in the laboratory for their sake, as opposed to what often happens in workshops where people are brought into altered states of consciousness and then the leader manipulates them for their own sake to take the next workshop. I hate that. I can't stand that.   Tahnee:  (15:55) Welcome to the yoga industry, yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (15:58) Yeah. It's so mean to start enrolling people when they're in the middle of their ecstatic experience. I would much rather have you calm down and realise here, and two years later think would you ever want to do that again? Most people are like, "No, that was plenty. I got that down." Now, there are the occasional people who come back and come back and back and back. Some people come every year. But they've made it their own practise. That's their own practise. I've made it my own practise as well.   Tahnee:  (16:27) Well, I mean, it seems like an endless task almost to try and map the body. I mean, it's so complicated.   Gil Hedley:  (16:38) It is. Things don't hold my attention for very long unless they're very interesting. So I found like with ethics and the moral life while I was studying that still am, I haven't stopped, observing, making observations and tinkering with my own set of ideas around how it is to be in the world and what I am in the world. What is going on here? These questions still drive me, who I am and what is my body. But when I think about how long I've been doing this for at this point, if you'd asked me, I would be like, "You're crazy." But it turns out that it really is the universe that we're exploring here. Whether you do it in macrocosm or microcosm.   Gil Hedley:  (17:23) I mean, I am like a kid in a candy shop in the lab every day because I'm seeing stuff, making observations, seeing details that have escaped me for all these years or details that I saw and then forgot. To be able to do that is quite a privilege, but also just speaks to the complexity of the subject. Even at the gross anatomical level, because people I mean, many people just dismiss gross anatomy like, "Oh, we already know all that stuff. That was figured out 400 years ago, right?" There it is. It's in the book. It's done there's nothing more to say. If you were getting a PhD in anatomy right now, you'd be hard pressed to find a professor who would support PhD level work and gross anatomy. No, you're going to be doing molecular biology. You're going to be working at nanometer level sizes of anatomy, cellular anatomy, gross anatomy is passe.   Gil Hedley:  (18:28) They'd rather have it out of the building actually because it smells and it's expensive and scary. But I have found actually that working at the gross level, I'm exploring the same questions that people are exploring at the micro level about movement and interfaces and relationships and continuities. But I find that the gross anatomical level provides a mirror for transformation that may be the microscopic level might not. You might not see yourself there quite as easily as you do when you're looking at a bedraggled old man on the table or a sweet old grandma.   Tahnee:  (19:06) Yeah, you see humanity reflected back at you, don't you?   Gil Hedley:  (19:09) Yeah.   Tahnee:  (19:09) I mean, I've read just recently actually read that you were talking about, you've even got theories that challenge, I guess, our gross anatomy conceptions that say like the heart is a pump, like you see it as more of a fluid. Is it that pressure dynamics, is that kind of what you're ...?   Gil Hedley:  (19:30) The heart is definitely not a pump.   Tahnee:  (19:30) Yeah. So speak to that.   Gil Hedley:  (19:32) By design, but the heart can be reduced to a pump, under the untoward circumstances of a stressful life. You can force your heart to become nothing but a pump to maintain homeostasis, but by design the heart is more of a, I see it as the place where the blood spins itself, where it refreshes its movement.   Tahnee:  (19:55) I guess centrifugal force kind of a thing is that what you ...   Gil Hedley:  (19:59) I think it's more about ... Well, there's that for sure, because I would say one of the primary functions of the heart is to facilitate the restoration of the vortex, the lamination of the blood and its flow as opposed to forcing it through smaller and smaller tubes that terminate 30,000 miles away and then make a 30,000-mile road trip back. That ain't happening with that little bit of flesh inside your chest. If you saw the kind of a pump that would be required to force a fluid through pipes with increasingly smaller diameters, the mathematics of it results in the need for an absolutely large machine, which is not located inside your chest.   Gil Hedley:  (20:43) If you've ever seen a heart lung machine, just look it up on Google, heart lung machine. It's like a big ass machine that is forcing blood. It's really the the amazing fluid dynamics and fractal form of the vascular network that's actually a reflection of the movement of fluids rather than its cause that results in the blood being drawn to the periphery and then being drawn back to the centre.   Tahnee:  (21:19) Like a tide, kind of?   Gil Hedley:  (21:21) Yeah, maybe like a tide. But there's a wonderful, wonderful Austrian naturalist whose name was Viktor Schauberger.   Tahnee:  (21:31) Yeah, I was about to say. Because he was all about the water needing to spin in vortex. We have an egg at home that our water-   Gil Hedley:  (21:37) Do you really? That's so cool.   Tahnee:  (21:38) Yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (21:39) How wonderful.   Tahnee:  (21:39) That's the thing. Because like nature is if you look at a coastline, it's all fractals, if you look at anything in nature, it's water streams like and the way water-   Gil Hedley:  (21:48) Yeah, so is the heart rhythm, the heart rhythm is fractal, we are fractal. We are mirrored best with fractal forms. We don't need a pump to make the water go around the planet or to make a vortex form in a stream nor do we need to control the streams banks. Similarly, if left to its own devices and if the heart is free, the blood will flow beautifully for your whole life. But if you resist that flow, if you resist the movement of life within you, literally through hypertension, emotional states and dietary duress is supplying your form, you can actually, I use the phrase canalyzing.   Gil Hedley:  (22:38) Which I mean to make a canal out of literally. So, if you put a canal and put walls, canal walls on a stream, you stress it basically. You dispermit its normal flow of movement, and yet it's still on a spinning planet. So what happens is there's friction, right? Instead of there being sort of a frictionless passage of the fluid, you have friction against the walls of the canal, which will be broken down by the fluid friction and also by the altered chemistry of the water, which when not moving in the same way has an altered chemistry. It's no different in our bodies, when we enter into emotional states that stiffen our otherwise flexible river beds, then we can analyze the path of the blood, generate friction of the blood against the vessel walls, which abraids, destroys them along with the altered chemistry, which chemically abraids them.   Gil Hedley:  (23:36) You have that combination of things, and then homeostasis kicks in and says, "Well, you promised to stay on this planet as long as I could keep you here, and so I'm going to proliferate cholesterol from your liver, the purpose of which is to be an antioxidant, and I'm going to take the oxidised cholesterol. I'll pack into the fissures along the vessel walls and I'm going to ... Oh well that's not enough. We're going to going to a hole in this thing eventually. So you really do want me to build a canal and your body will actually lay down bone basically," it'll calcify a literal canal, a little calcified canal inside the blood vessel. Then your blood will try and flow through that but you've created is no longer being sucked to the end and sucked back.   Gil Hedley:  (24:24) You're actually demanding like I said, at the beginning of the story, that your heart be a pump then, and then you'll get megalocardia, right, the heart will increase it and literally, increase in size as it worked for the first time in your life to move the blood. It never had to work before, it just happened. The ocean doesn't work to draw the rivers into it. The clouds don't work to form, and rain over the mountain tops, and soak into the soil and turn into spring water and bubble back up. There's no work involved. It's all just happening on a spinning planet, in a spinning galaxy. We are that.   Tahnee:  (25:03) Spinning bodies.   Gil Hedley:  (25:04) Yeah, we our bodies, are participating in that potential fluid movement on the planet. Unless we decide to hell no. I'm going to do it this way. I'm going to do it the hard way I'm going to resist the moment of life within me, and show it better. We never do we always show it worse.   Tahnee:  (25:28) I mean, it sounds like you're talking a lot to the Taoist world view. Would you say that's fair? Because it seems to be, like if we resist the flow of life a lot of this stuff, I guess is reminding me of like the Tao Te Ching and those kinds of concepts.   Gil Hedley:  (25:42) Yeah, there's a lot of good stuff in there, huh? Definitely. I would say when the Tao is lost, morality arises. Yeah, that's a little Tao Te Ching for you. I read it many times as a boy.   Tahnee:  (25:54) Yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (25:55) Man. I love the Tao Te Ching. I was like, "Wow, what's this all about?"   Tahnee:  (26:00) This idea I mean, because I have a little bit of a background in Chinese medicine too. I'm thinking like one thing, Paul Grilley who's a yin yoga teacher, I think you know him.   Gil Hedley:  (26:09) I know, Paul, he's pretty good.   Tahnee:  (26:11) Yeah, yeah. Well, he was talking recently about how one of his theories is that the fluid around the organs changes, and that gives rise to deficiency or access patterns and stuff. That makes sense when you're talking about the chemistry of the fluid. If it's altered by stagnation or by excess flow or whatever, getting flushed out too quickly, then we're going to end up with physiological effects from what had happened.   Gil Hedley:  (26:37) Absolutely.   Tahnee:  (26:39) Yeah, and then those manifest health symptoms and things, is that phenomenon visible in the fashion, not just in organs, obviously be it all through the body, right, that we'll be seeing this kind of stiffening?   Gil Hedley:  (26:51) Absolutely, I see. Well, what I call perry fascia I see as a fluid reservoir in our body. I like Peter Fritos word of a conduit. It's both a pathway as well as a reservoir. It's chemistry is dependent upon levels of hydration, which can be altered, but not only hydration, but the entire chemistry is altered by dehydration, right? You start to get you know, hydrogen bonding and cross fibre linking in the tissues that are designed to facilitate differential movement. When that happens, then at some level, the function is mitigated.   Gil Hedley:  (27:53) I don't know what percentage is required. I'm not saying dehydrated like cardboard, I'm saying like 2% of lack of fluidity and what does that do to the cells or the slipperiness of the tissue. When there's this level of drag generated mechanically throughout your body, how does that alter physiology? How does it alter movement? How does it alter mood or how does mood alter? It goes both ways, right?   Tahnee:  (28:24) Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's so easy for us to be either or with these things. When you start to really look into them, it's always both, there's a great F. Scott Fitzgerald, quote, it's like, the sign of advanced intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas at the same time. It's one that we constantly have to remember where we because ... You try and conceptualise these things, and it's so easy to want to know the truth which and then realistically it's always both. We're physical beings, we're emotional beings, we're spiritual beings. We're all of these things at once. I mean that idea that you say of I guess just reclaiming the body as a positive kind of a thing because I think so much of our culture like movement practises are ... I see some of the stuff people are doing, especially on social media and it just seems like it's abuse. It's like we're flogging our bodies.   Gil Hedley:  (29:22) Oh yeah, for sure.   Tahnee:  (29:24) I mean, you have some movement practise of your own. Right? Or you speak to movement quite a bit like, is there a ...   Gil Hedley:  (29:34) I walk.   Tahnee:  (29:34) Well, I mean-   Gil Hedley:  (29:34) I usually walk when I'm on the telephone. At the moment, I'm plugged in, I hover over cadavers in uncomfortable positions for hours a day, tormenting myself. Then I come home and collapse on a soft gushy sofa and do four hours of admin on my computer. While we make popcorn and eventually relax by watching something on Netflix. I'm pretty much in the loop of-   Tahnee:  (29:57) Of life.   Gil Hedley:  (29:59) Earlier. By the way, I think F. Scott Fitzgerald must have been a Libra.   Tahnee:  (30:03) I'm a Libra, so maybe that's it.   Gil Hedley:  (30:06) You're a Libra? I'm also a Libra, like a triple Libra.   Tahnee:  (30:10) Oh, no, are you?   Gil Hedley:  (30:12) Yeah. I'm as Libra as they get. I'm a Venusian, they're like man are from Mars and women are from Venus. Gil is also from Venus.   Tahnee:  (30:21) This explains a lot though because you also have the poetry and the beautiful philosophical musings, which I think is a very Libran trait to always look at the beauty in everything.   Gil Hedley:  (30:30) That is very true.   Tahnee:  (30:34) There was something you actually said. No, I think he taught a workshop on it overseas. I think a friend of mine from England went, I think that's why I knew about it. It was Sex and the Sacred Heart. Is that something you did?   Gil Hedley:  (30:48) That was recently, yeah.   Tahnee:  (30:50) I was not there, but yeah. I think a friend of mine from England who I'd done one of Paul's training's with was in attendance.   Gil Hedley:  (30:55) Yeah. Jo Phee.   Tahnee:  (30:57) I love them.   Gil Hedley:  (30:58) I held a yin teacher training in Berlin, actually.   Tahnee:  (31:02) Yeah. She had a whole bunch of you though that were pretty next level guests.   Gil Hedley:  (31:05) Yeah. Robert Schleipe was there. Jupp Vaanderwall, John Sharkey, and there was a gentleman, an acupuncturist fellow who I didn't have the pleasure of meeting. He was gone by the time I arrived. But anyway, yeah, When Jo says come, you got to go.   Tahnee:  (31:23) For someone so teeny, she's definitely got a authority.   Gil Hedley:  (31:27) Yeah, well, Jo's been coming to my class for years. I figured I owe her.   Tahnee:  (31:31) Yeah. Look, I mean, she's a wealth of information and hardworking.   Gil Hedley:  (31:36) She's wonderful, wonderful teacher. Yes, so I did teach a workshop called Sex and Sacred Heart. It was a kind of an experiment. I was thinking I might tour that talk. I was trying to see could I actually teach a class without my computer and without an image from the lab, and just tell stories that use toys such so I did. I did twisty tie balloons.   Tahnee:  (31:59) Okay. I thought you might made ...   Gil Hedley:  (32:01) I made a giant clitoris and a giant penis, and we had a great time.   Tahnee:  (32:06) Well, because one of the things my Taoist teacher talks about is how the Heart is expressed in the head of the penis and the clitoris. That's one of his big things. He's like-   Gil Hedley:  (32:16) I believe him.   Tahnee:  (32:18) Yeah. All of his work is around sex is a healing practise instead of as something to be-   Gil Hedley:  (32:23) Wonderful.   Tahnee:  (32:24) Yeah, was that the name of what you were talking about? Basically?   Gil Hedley:  (32:27) Well, for me, I wanted to basically offer, have a frank discussion about sexuality that wasn't so reductionistic as well. It's like well, first let me share with you some of the basic anatomy of our sexuality that may be overlooked or misunderstood because people haven't gotten that Sex 101. I found the more I talk about it, the more I realised that folks really don't know anything at all about their sexual anatomy for starters. And that's understandable, it's just not around. Where it is being taught, it's very difficult to comprehend the dimensions, the dimensionality and relationships, the anatomical structures are poured over it for years.   Gil Hedley:  (33:15) I think I can offer, I can make those connections with people but then also to be like, "It's not about these body parts. It's nice to know that and to be able to meet and connect with the actual qualities of our parts intimate," as I call them, but also that ultimately good sex is a function of the Heart. Not everybody wants good sex, but if you look at some people just want trashy sex, whatever you want to say. That's fine too. I'm not the judge. But in our culture, at least in the American culture which is all I can really speak to, the disconnection that we spoke of earlier with regard to our religiosity actually produces its opposite in the culture with as much or greater strength.   Gil Hedley:  (34:11) So to the extent that you deny, suppress, repress, revile, hate, and control sexuality, you create the largest porn industry in the world because literally, the porn industry is a function of our religion in the same way that the devil it's himself is a creation. If you have a pure God, that's only love and you and you subtract anything else from that God, you build a devil, right? If you go to the Indian religions, Kali Maas, terrifying, and sexy, and murderous and terrifying. You know what I'm saying? So it's all wrapped up into one thing. It's a little more psychologically rich. Similarly, if you banish an aspect of the human body to a lesser status. You cut off your very experience of the human body at the waist, you will not know the fullness of your Heart.   Tahnee:  (35:21) Even at the shoulders, like so many people who are living from above the neck, right?   Gil Hedley:  (35:27) Absolutely. Not even in the head. They're actually above the head. It's too terrifying to even come into the body. If you just ask people to a number, "Where do you feel yourself to be?" There will be people who will put their hand over their head. They don't feel themselves to be inside their bodies. If you've actually judged the body to be dangerous or if the body is perceived to pose a moral risk to the soul or salvation or however you want to construct it, then you're going to have a very busy porn industry.   Gil Hedley:  (36:15) In the same neighbourhood, because it'll be right next to the church. So there'll be the church, and then there'll be the dirty movies shop, right? Because you can't part yourself from that. You can't divide your heart like that. So for me, the is heart sacred and it infiltrates every cell, makes up to every cell of my body, the capillary network infiltrates my below the waist as well as above, it's the same Heart. I can't believe that a kind creator God would would give me a zone one of my body that was forbidden somehow or that was somehow less than any other aspect of my body. My mouth can't say to my dick, "I don't need you," to crudely paraphrase, the Apostle Paul.   Tahnee:  (37:14) That might be the headline. Kidding.   Gil Hedley:  (37:19) Yeah. You might have an establishment coming. Just saying.   Tahnee:  (37:22) Same intention.   Gil Hedley:  (37:24) Yeah, it's like the eye can't say to the hand, "I don't need you." There's nothing, there's no part of a body that is a gift that is unwelcomed or dirty or doesn't belong. And once you actually embrace the whole of the body as a gift, then you could say, "Well, then I gotta unwrap it all. I have to be open to the potential, the entire potential of this form and not just part of it." If I fall down on my knees, and literally straightened my body up and cut my pelvis, the energy off of my pelvis, above the pelvis, it's a strange thing. It's a very strange thing.   Gil Hedley:  (38:10) I don't feel like that justly demonstrates gratitude to the gift of the whole body. I feel that kind of, then so we actually have a culture that's split on those lines, right? And you end up, because of that split, the spirituality, actually a kind of spirituality, that splits the body in two and considers part of it great, that part of it good. That kind of spirituality literally drives the negative and empty expression of sexuality in the culture, right, because then everyone who actually goes for it is like, "Well, this, this can't be that." They're just the other side of the coin. By bringing the heart or the idea of a sacred heart into the story of sexuality is to say that we can't split our hearts in two and expect ourselves to feel whole. The heart is no less present in your [inaudible] than it is anywhere else.   Tahnee:  (39:16) And I mean when you're... Because that's something I think I've heard you say that even the separateness of our bodies is something you've brought into question recently. Is that something? Have I understood that correctly? Because I've been thinking about I guess, again, looking from the Taoist perspective, and even some of the tantric practises , that sacred union has been transformational for people. I've certainly had that experience in my life where I've had the good and the bad sex, where part has been really healing and empowering. That's, I guess, my current relationship,. It is like a transcendental experience where you actually do sort of dissolve almost, then there's that experience of like meditation or altered states of consciousness.   Tahnee:  (40:15) I mean, that's what my experience has been when I've managed to kind of unify through sex. I think that's there's a reason that subjugated because that's very empowering. You don't want to be a part of a ... You become kind of less able to be controlled, I think, when that's a part of your experience, because if you think about advertising, and politics, and all of these things, they really come out of this, these ideas. I know we're getting into deep territory, but that's been my experience. I think about if I'm repressed, and suppressed, and afraid, and don't trust myself, and don't trust my power and my body, then I'm much more easy to control. It's an act of sovereignty and liberation in a way.   Gil Hedley:  (40:58) That's beautifully put, I love it.   Tahnee:  (41:01) Yeah, well, I'm getting there. So could you flush out that idea for me about because we're all so different, and that's something you mentioned before we got on, you've been in the lab a lot lately. You've been taking apart two bodies simultaneously, and recording it so people can actually see even side to side, we're different. This is something I literally have to hit people over the head with. You won't be able to assume the same shape on one side that you do in another side in a yoga class.   Tahnee:  (41:29) It might be minutely different, it might be vastly different. I think people think we kind of have like those butterfly prints you do it at school when you're a kid. We're like clone from side to side. But that's not how we grow to my understanding. We kind of spiral out. That fractal nature of us. We aren't perfectly symmetrical, and none of us are perfectly-   Gil Hedley:  (41:52) Very true.   Tahnee:  (41:52) Yeah, well, none of us a perfectly symmetrical, but then you're also saying that we're very similar. So can you explain what's going on for you there? What's that line of thinking?   Gil Hedley:  (42:02) Well, we got a head. I have a head, we both have a couple arms, most of us do, a couple of legs, some hairy bits here and there. That's kind of like the basic map, right? Then literally to a number, every one of us kind of is a spin on that basic format that we call the human body.   Gil Hedley:  (42:31) But when I think about the human body, I mean, I've thought about the human body for years and years and years now. I keep kind of shifting my idea of the human body. Now when I say the human body, I tend to include yours with mine. I tend to include all the bodies as the human body. There's this body of humans on the planet. There are many, many cells to it, right? This human body, We're actually, all those human body cells that we are are governed by the same sun, the same moon, the same stars, the same spinning planet. Those are the master glands and the master physiology of the whole human species. And believe me, when the sun throws some crazy ass cosmic rays at this planet, we behave differently. When the when the moon is full, we behave differently.   Tahnee:  (43:33) Luna speaks.   Gil Hedley:  (43:35) Yeah, exactly. Our skins are producing in response to the sun, everything, whether we're hungry or tired is based on the sun. You can't get off the planet. Just try, jump. See how far you get. You snap back down like a magnet. There's substance to the space between us. Just because it's not our, our sensory habit of perceiving the content or substance of the spaces that we imagine are between us in the same way that when I went to the lab at first, I didn't really expect the muscles to be connected to each other. I mean, I knew they were connected to the bones or something, but I thought there was kind of, I don't know, maybe some juice in between them.   Gil Hedley:  (44:42) I didn't expect it to be a facial connection. I didn't expect it to be a substantial connection. I was basically surprised and in denial of the connection I was witnessing. Isn't that true about all of us? Aren't we surprised and in denial of connections between us? Right? Such that we keep forcing our minds to imagine ourselves separate in spite of the intimacy of our mutual connection across the planet with one another, regardless of telecommunications or whatever. There's a substance that's a continuity that is the relationship of the whole human body on the planet.   Gil Hedley:  (45:32) I don't really need to even stop it there. Why stop at the human body? Why not just talk about the planetary body or the body of consciousness? Right? Then you can just include everything. Why not? Because I don't know, I don't really. I'm not really a big, big bang kind of guy. You know what I'm saying? I find that to be a very amusing story. Right. Whether it be true or not, I don't even care. But I just see it as, as a nice metaphor for connection really. Right? So if you do conceive of a beginning or of a beginning that was the end of something else or a new beginning that is a very concentrated mass of atoms without so much space in between them that that spread out, formed our universe and our bodies and our stars at the star dust.   Gil Hedley:  (46:34) If there's any truth to physics, the proximity of those generated a mutuality such that at a distance, they remain connected in their behaviours and in their substance, even electromagnetically or however else that happens. I don't really know. But just as a story, I'm willing to ramp that up at the macro level. I can easily extend the notion to our mutual connectedness. I also know that I can feel people at a distance. I don't automatically deny that experience. Any human can, with a little practise view remotely and extend their consciousness. So the the field of consciousness that we share may be our body, may be my body. I don't say that egotistically, but as just a simple fact of reality.   Tahnee:  (47:37) That's very yogic. Well, that's sort of the map I've learned of what Paul teaches is actually, where ideas and energy and form, but we're all the same thing all the time. It's just we choose to perceive ourselves this way right now.   Gil Hedley:  (47:59) It's not the worst choice in the world, it can be interesting.   Tahnee:  (48:06) If you do believe we chose it, then we chose it. There has to be a reason on some level that we're here for this experience. Again, ideas and stories.   Gil Hedley:  (48:16) Punishment. You're being punished. You've come to the earth because you suck.   Tahnee:  (48:22) I heard a spiritual teacher stay the other day. He said, "You've been very naughty. That's why you're here." And it made me laugh, and it was in the time of Coronavirus. I was like, maybe it's our great punishment or something   Gil Hedley:  (48:38) Yeah, I don't think so. I have sneakingly suspicious that we're not being punished.   Tahnee:  (48:45) Yeah, I mean, my partner and I talk about these things a lot. We both feel that, I've always used the analogy of like Super Mario. I had a little Gameboy when I was a kid and it's like, why am I putting myself through this? It's because I learn and I grow and I get better. It's that self-development that motivates my life and obviously motivates yours. It's like that constant curiosity and questioning. I think that's fun.   Gil Hedley:  (49:13) Yeah, some of us are cursed with that drive to grow. What is that about?   Tahnee:  (49:20) Maybe we did something naughty.   Gil Hedley:  (49:21) Yeah. We must have done something naughty.   Tahnee:  (49:24) I have one sort of last question that which is curious to me as a movement, as somebody who I guess practises yoga asana as well as other things. You talk a lot about textures and about feeling textures. I know like bodies. Actually, I have a couple of questions in here. So I know you do like fixed dissections and then also gooey ones, which Joe and I actually talked about last year when I saw her she was saying that she'd done, like the brain was just like a puddle. It was very different to a normal brain.   Gil Hedley:  (50:00) Very different. Yeah. It's moving. Why is it moving?   Tahnee:  (50:03) So this idea that because most of us, even if we've seen anatomical models, they've been quite fixed by the formaldehyde and that kind of processing that goes on. You work with bodies that are quite fresh sometimes. We are really just sacks to goo and space and water and stuff, right?   Gil Hedley:  (50:27) It's pretty well differentiated in there actually.   Tahnee:  (50:29) Okay.   Gil Hedley:  (50:31) Yeah, I guess I'm not a massive goo, but tubes of goo. Is that kind of ...?   Tahnee:  (50:38) Yeah, well, there is a very watery quality to the body that's not fixed. There's a very, well for lack of a better word, sort of chickeny quality, cooked quality to the fixed bodies. Neither of them really capture the, the true tone of the human form and its textures. There are advantages and disadvantages to studying both. That's why I like to do them both because they're complementary rather than one better than the other. I couldn't work for seven straight weeks on an unfixed body because it would be rotten by the end of it.   Gil Hedley:  (51:16) The decay is too rapid and the fixed bodies, if it's done well, you can read into them the properties of the unfixed body. So the textures that I'm feeling into also represent differences, right? I can extrapolate from textures that are slightly off differences that can be palpated in the living form, right? So although the textures might not be the same, there are relative differences conveyed to the living form, whether it be a fixed or a unfixed body. can I can make use of the donated forms, the models as I call them, to interpret and read into the living body in the same way that a good tracker can read into the hoof prints of an antelope herd and pick out the the young and the weak, and walk after those hoof prints. Sure enough, come upon the young and the weak that are worn out, that just lie down and then the Bushmen of the Kalahari, just they can just dinner is served.   Tahnee:  (52:40) Got served.   Gil Hedley:  (52:43) I basically consider myself a tracker. You know, I don't I don't take the track for the being, right? I don't mistake the track for the antelope, but I can learn a whole lot about the antelope from the track. I can learn a whole lot about movement dynamics, fluid dynamics, structure function from the track that is the deceased human body.   Tahnee:  (53:14) So this idea of then movement, it becomes more about experiencing or developing this ability to perceive the textures. Is that what you're kind of getting at when you talk about movement practise and bringing this stuff in? Because there is that sort of Taoist idea that junk kind of congregates at the joints. I guess being dense and less full of goo perhaps, maybe is where that idea is coming from on a physical level.   Gil Hedley:  (53:45) The joints are pretty full of goo too actually. I just had a handful of synovial fluid this afternoon and my hand. I was like, wow, this is serious goo.   Tahnee:  (53:55) I guess that's more goo than what I'm imagining, because I'm imagining if there's a fluid and then a junction that's gooier, you can imagine things getting trapped there as opposed to like moving through muscle tissue where maybe there's more blood, it's more dynamic, there's more access. In my body, I can feel that those movements have a different texture and I guess a different experience. Is that kind of what you're talking to? I guess I'm just trying to comprehend how I would experience texture in my body.   Gil Hedley:  (54:28) Touch, just grope around.   Tahnee:  (54:30) Just touch it.   Gil Hedley:  (54:32) Yeah, just touch it.   Tahnee:  (54:32) Yep. I've got some rope up here in my shoulders.   Gil Hedley:  (54:35) Well, exactly. That's exactly right. So it's like, oh, I feel some rope up there. What's moving or not moving their? Or oh, this is kind of mushy, no matter how hard I try and contract it. What's going on there? Or when I turn this way, I feel stiff. When I turn that way, I can keep going. What does that texture feel like or what does it mean to move from my bones or what does it mean to move from my deep fascia versus my superficial fascia or from my membranes? Can I actually ... Actually when you can begin to sort of get a sense of those textures in your movement. We see this in the sort of traditional movement arts around the planet. Someone who's doing Xing Yi is moving from their sinews, from their tendons, and their deep, deep fascia. Very different than someone who's practising Aikido or something, right? Or someone who's doing Kung Fu or Karate or Taekwondo.   Gil Hedley:  (55:51) Those all the martial arts are actually deep explorations and moving from different textural foundations in the body and exploring their power, and the individual's relationship to the movement potential of those different layers. I find that fascinating, and fun to explore. and easy to see. For me, from my vision when I'm looking at, I'm like, "Oh, wow, that's a real muscley movement I'm looking at there," or wow, I look at my friend Russell Malphite, who's a choreographer in London and man that dude is liquid, he's just moving. He enters into the, the fluid potential, the fluid surfaces that are inherent within his body, and then he projects that out into space for all of us to witness.   Gil Hedley:  (56:48) Your jaw drops and you're like, wow, how can that even be? How can a person move like that? With that as your mirror, it confronts your own movement way of being in the world. This is ethics, your own movement way of being in the world which may be conserved or stiff or held in textures that are more wooden. That might be conveying a wooden mentality or a wooden religiosity or disdain for your own sexuality so that you can't actually get a wave going through your spine or an infinity wave going through your pelvis because that would be judged as seductive or something. Yeah. So that's kind of what I'm getting at.   Tahnee:  (57:36) Yeah, we have a friend who's, his name's the Movement Monk. But he teaches just those explorations. When I was practising them, and I heard you speak to that, I thought about it, because I mean, practising a lot of Yin. You really feel like that deep fascia, those rebound kind of sensations, and that's something I think for me, in my eyes, I think I was, must be early 20s when I first practised Yin. It was such a visceral and distinct sensation versus like the muscular action I supposed I was used to from athletics and life, and even regular yoga. I feel like we've lost a lot of that, I guess kind of exploratory function in modern movement. So it's nice to feel like maybe it's coming back a little bit. Yeah, well, that's probably a nice place to wrap up. So thank you. I mean, I really appreciate you taking the time. You must be knackered. The Australian, I don't know if that's an American word. Very tired.   Gil Hedley:  (58:42) Yeah, it's a very American word. Knackered, we say that all the time. Yeah.   Tahnee:  (58:46) Yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (58:46) We say, "I'm wasted. I'm so tired. I'm wasted."   Tahnee:  (58:50) In Australia, that means you drunk too many beers.   Gil Hedley:  (58:53) Yeah, that means that here too actually.   Tahnee:  (58:56) Yeah, so thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.   Gil Hedley:  (58:59) Thank you, Tahnee.   Tahnee:  (59:00) Yeah, I'll put all the links to your work on our webpage so that people can find you. But do you want to just rattle off your website for us? GilHedley, right?   Gil Hedley:  (59:10) Www.GilHedley.com, G-I-L-H-E-D-L-E-Y dot C-O-M. There's tonnes of free stuff there. So enjoy it.   Tahnee:  (59:16) Yeah.   Gil Hedley:  (59:17) Yeah.   Tahnee:  (59:17) Also you're on YouTube, you've got your famous fuzz speech, which I know you've probably copped a lot slack about it.   Gil Hedley:  (59:23) Very kind to not ask me for a whole hour about the fuzz speech.   Tahnee:  (59:27) I figured you've probably been there and they'll be stuff out there about it.   Gil Hedley:  (59:32) Yeah. It's not a problem. I'm happy to speak to that anytime. But actually I do on my website, if you join it, which involves putting your email down. I won't email you back unless you have beg me to, basically I have three free full length video courses that amount to about 16 hours of teaching an on camera dissection. That'll give you my learning curve over the years and a whole lot of cool content, then I put that up there, especially for you Australians, because-   Tahnee:  (01:00:02) I know. I've been dying to come for years.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:06) I always feel bad. I mean, I'm honoured that the Australians come to my courses. They're always like, "When are you going to come to Australia?" I'm like, never. Just do that.   Tahnee:  (01:00:16) The logistics must be difficult to arrange a cadaver in another country.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:20) It is. Yeah. I'm so busy with what I'm doing now that I'm not really looking to-   Tahnee:  (01:00:26) Yeah, expand in that way.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:27) Multiply, multiply the number of times, the number of weeks I spend in the lab each year.   Tahnee:  (01:00:33) But don't worry we come to you.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:35) Thank you.   Tahnee:  (01:00:35) Australians like travelling.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:37) I'll be coming to you because all this stuff that I've been doing in the lab, I'm basically shooting footage for a massive online course.   Tahnee:  (01:00:45) Yeah, awesome.   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:45) Yeah, that'll take people-   Tahnee:  (01:00:46) Is there a timeline for that, Gil, in terms of ... Do you have a ...?   Gil Hedley:  (01:00:51) Give me a year, about a year, maybe less. I mean, the stuff on my website, I give away and it was just so I could learn how to make a website that could contain this massive thing that I'm building. Right now, we're shooting it. So there's a whole lot of other levels to making good education than just shooting the excellent video. I want to have it be flushed out as a whole course of study into the human body that's not exclusively laboratory based, but that has other elements to it as well in terms of exercise and exploration that can facilitate folks all over the world having a totally different experience to what it means to learn anatomy.   Tahnee:  (01:01:37) Yeah, I think that for me is such a gift. I mean, I'm sure I'm speaking for other people, but to not have to go through a traditional route to learn this stuff. I was looking at do I go back and do another degree and study. I'm like, I'm not going to learn what I want to learn as well. So that's really amazing we have these kind of independent options. That's something I can't imagine how much work that's been for you at the backend. So very grateful. Thanks.   Gil Hedley:  (01:02:11) I can't even tell you. I can't even tell you.   Tahnee:  (01:02:13) I mean, look, we sell herbs in a country and it's hard enough, I can't imagine what it's like moving tissue around. Yeah. I've heard some stories over the years of what you've jumped through. It's always impressed me. Anyway, on behalf of anyone out there who's listening, thank you. Yeah, I'll see you one day when the Coronavirus ends and the world is open again.   Gil Hedley:  (01:02:37) I look forward to it, Tahnee.   Tahnee:  (01:02:39) With existential experience.   Gil Hedley:  (01:02:39) Yeah.   Tahnee:  (01:02:42) All right. Thanks, Gil. Have a beautiful afternoon.   Gil Hedley:  (01:02:44) You're welcome. You too. Bye bye.

I want to share a timely story with y'all. Because so many people are sitting at home wondering who is going to save them… wondering why their journey hasn't been easier, and wondering why they aren't further along by now. I want to give you a glimpse behind the scenes into the years that it took me to become “successful”. Not to brag, but to inspire you through these challenging times. Because I've been through it, and I want to help you get through it too… but there are no shortcuts. Let’s go.

5 Pro Tips and 6 Steps to creating an engaging 40 minute training session on ANY topic. How do I know this works? Because I've done it many, many times and shown people that it doesn't even need a lot of subject expertise OR technological know how.

Andy is a local lad from the great City of Hull. Starting his younger years at Bricknell Junior School and Hull Grammar School. Then Studying to become a Nurse at the University of Hull. Going on to a full-time career in the Accident & Emergency unit, at Hull Royal Infirmary. Having a passion for first aid training, set him on a journey to be self-employed. Helping to save lives with his own unique style. This Helped Andy to find time to build his love of performing arts. A highlight was the Edinburgh Fringe Festival showcasing his talents. Which includes stand up comedy and street theatre. Creating’ The Gold Man’ he became synonymous with the City of Culture Hull 2017 bid. Growing up in a “traditional family” with the church, built a perception of society. Which put a lid on Andy being his true authentic self. Andy says about finally coming out “ I suppose I could sit in the closet forever, my sexuality is a bit complex. People say that I'm a gay guy as its kind of easy to wrap your head around. Actually, I'm more what's called pansexual. Now, I don't know whether or not that's something that everybody gets. It's a bit more complicated than being bisexual. Because I've had relationships with women, men and also relationships with trans guys”. It lifted the lid on him if you like, then that's when the performance side, the more colourful side, the rainbow side of Andy came out. Having Suicidal thoughts, Andy struggled to go to a point where he didn't quite understand—feeling a bit more miserable each day. Being the 80s, there weren't many people or places for Andy to turn too. Andy started to help out on the Samaritans helpline as he knew himself how hard it was. Andy says “Organisations like this existed. But You need people with either that experience or to have more insider knowledge”. He thought it was shameful that they were sending people out of town. To get the help you'd need to contact somebody in either London or Brighton or Manchester where there was a higher concentration of LGBTQ. So they brought in organisations like masma, “they need to set up specific services that will cater to people. There is a massive gap in the market for supporting people questioning their sexual orientation around the whole thing about same-sex relationships”. Andy is a big advocate in helping the LGBTQ community. He is one of the many amazing people who run Hulls Pride. It runs every year in Hull’s city centre. It just gets bigger and bigger. Andy says, “we've got such a fantastic team of people when an event gets that big and important you need that around you. Hull is currently a Euro pride, 2023 candidate”. Hull is competing with a lot of other cities, in these wonderfully weird and scary times that we're in. Take a listen to this fantastic podcast and hear more about Andy's story. Sponsored by: Moodbeam, Hopen, Talk suicide Powered By: Think Cloud

Hello and welcome to Week 16 of the Wise Not Withered Character Showcase! I'm thrilled to present Nardeen, our 75-year-old Herb-Tracking Navigator! This character was actually the very first one I came up with, and I'm so very happy with how she and the other characters turned out in her story. The writers for this story were Heba, from Palestine, and me. Nardeen's wonderful, detailed illustrations were done by Natalia, from Argentina.Now, what is an "herb-tracking navigator", you ask?? I'm not sure exactly how I came up with this concept. I had a vision of an elderly woman that has a rare magical ability of diagnosing an illness, and identifying and tracking the right herbs to cure it. Not necessarily a past or future setting, Nardeen's world is one lacking in technology, but abundant with plants and herbs, animals (particularly goats), and supernatural elements like magic and spirits.Nardeen's story, titled "Generational Forbearance", was a collaborative effort between Heba and me. The story begins with some tender moments between Nardeen and other villagers, including her grand-daughter, Amira. The story focuses on the relationship between the two of them; Nardeen and Amira both have the "sacred herb-tracking sense".The woman of the generation in between them—Nardeen's daughter/Amira's mother—is named Aliana, and she does not have the herb-tracking ability. This creates some tension in Aliana's relationships with both Nardeen and Amira. In addition, Aliana's husband/Amira's father had passed away years prior to the story, from a tick infestation—even though it was not Nardeen's fault, Aliana still harbors some resentment toward her mother, the esteemed village apothecary, for not being able to save him.A mysterious plague afflicts many villagers in the story, and Aliana is one of them. She ends up passing away, still visibly angry with her mother and never letting go and forgiving her. The title is "Generational Forbearance" because one of the main themes in the story is forgiveness (or lack thereof) of parents. We see in Aliana that she never forgave Nardeen for things that ultimately were not Nardeen's responsibility (Aliana's lack of magical abilities and her husband's death). I wanted to provide this tragic example to show how very sad but very real it is that some people die without ever forgiving people they feel have wronged them in some way. I think resentment toward one's family, particularly parents, is probably pretty common across all cultures. It's really up to each of us to recognize that our parents did their best, and the mistakes they made are ultimately our responsibility to come to terms with, especially if our parents are no longer alive to discuss deeper matters.The main themes in the story are pretty deep and raw, not unlike those of other Wise Not Withered stories, and they resonate especially for me in this time of my life. I was hesitant to post this episode and have been taking a while to write it because I realized that there was no way I could not talk about my own mother, and how her recent passing ties in so closely with this story.My mother passed away from lung cancer in the end of February, and it was an earth-shattering experience, to say the least. I guess I shouldn't say "was", because it still is affecting me nearly every moment of every day. When I first wrote Nardeen's story, I tried to write about what it might be like to experience the death of a loved one, and now that I actually have experienced it myself, I have two reactions to what I wrote. First, I'm surprised that some of the things I wrote about were absolutely spot on to what I am feeling now. Second, there were a few instances where I thought what I wrote may be a bit too dramatic, but after having lost my mother and experienced this type of grief first-hand, I will not change those parts because the death of a family member really is such a dramatic and life-changing event.Forgiveness of parents and the cycle of life in general are the two main themes of this story. Aliana, as I mentioned earlier, provides an example of an older woman who does not forgive her parents, and ends up dying with the pain and resentment still locked in her heart. Nardeen on the other hand travels with Amira to the source of the plague and must come to terms with some incredibly difficult decisions that her own parents made, back seventy-four years ago when she was still an infant.She discovers she had a twin sister that her parents tragically decided to leave behind, because they could not afford to keep both babies. The wrath of the twin sister is what ended up causing the plague—pain and resentment manifested—that traveled miles and miles across the ocean and rivers to Nardeen's village.When I was getting ready to make this showcase, I thought about how Amira and Nardeen's relationship may become strained when Aliana dies. I thought maybe I should add in more conflict between the two of them, possibly Amira blaming herself or Nardeen for the death of her mom (and her dad years ago). I decided later though that there was enough conflict (between Nardeen and Aliana, Amira and Aliana, and closer to the end Nardeen with her twin sister's spirit), and adding in more would just feel forced and unnecessary. Besides, in time of grief and uncertainty, it just made more sense to have a solid relationship that never wavers. That's how I feel about my brother right now—while my relationships with other family members somehow became even more strained after my mother's death, I honestly feel like there's nothing that could come between my brother and me. While we are both feeling the intensity of losing our mom, we are able to see only each other and a few other select people during this COVID-19 quarantine. So I wanted to show that strong bond that gets even stronger during hard times.This story has such a special place in my heart, particularly because as I said before, Nardeen was the first Wise Not Withered character I created, almost two years ago now. Nardeen's story is so fitting for a video game, and I'm so proud of the parts I added into the story that would be super fun to play. When Nardeen and Amira first set off on their voyage, I made a long list of things that Nardeen puts into her pack, though I finished writing that list after figuring out what all she was going to do later. Here's one of my favorite parts of the story:“'Amira, we are in need your paddling skills after all,' the older woman smiled as she handed the oar to the younger woman. Amira nodded, not knowing exactly what Nardeen was thinking, but trusting. 'The direction of the river has changed, but we can still steer our boat to and fro.' With her grandmother’s directions, Amira paddled their boat to either side of the river while Nardeen reached out and plucked a multitude of reeds and grasses of different lengths and widths. She then broke a handful of twigs and branches off of the dead tree trunks. Nardeen sifted through the pile of twigs until she found two that were the same length and shape, bending slightly outward. She carved a small slot in the bottom of each twig, then using a thin blade of grass, she threaded it first through the slots then around and around, securing the twigs together. From inside her pack she retrieved a large handful of dandelion stems. She squeezed each stem gently, catching the goopy substance that came out into her hands. Rubbing her palms together, the dandelion goop became a single, thin, elastic piece, which she strung across the top of the twigs, in the space that formed as the twigs bent away from each other. Nardeen reached in her bag for the stash of small nuts. Bringing her newly crafted slingshot up to eye level, she placed a nut in the spider web, pulled it back, then fling! The nut flew through the air and landed with a plop into the water."—As with all of the other characters too, I could not have fleshed out Nardeen's aesthetic and personality without the help of the writer and illustrator who contributed to her story and look.So without further ado, first here is Heba introducing herself and talking about her experience writing about Nardeen."Hello! My name is Heba Hayek. I live in Palestine in a small city called Gaza, where a lot of conflicts happened in the last decade. I'm married, and I have three beautiful children. I've worked in several fields. Currently, I am a translator, proofreader, and creative writer. I started writing in the age of 13. Most of my writings were about my daily life, and sometimes I would criticize some thoughts and ideas that I didn't like in my society.Each article, or topic, or small paragraph that I write usually reflects a certain situation, feeling, or person that had an impact on me. The most precious articles to my heart are two. The first one is called 'Survivor Lost Within'. In this article, I reflected my own experience during the last aggression on Gaza, while being pregnant with my third child. And the second article is called 'Beneath The Rubble Rises Hope', where I talk about a young lady who fought all the misfortunes she had in her life to achieve her goals.In this story, I wanted to reflect the bright side of my society, because worldwide we are not recognized as the peaceful, loving society. When I started writing about Nardeen, in my head I had imagined every single mother and grandmother in my society. Nardeen is an example of any grandmother who is willing to do anything for the sake of her family. Nardeen is an example, because she is a leader. She is willing to do anything to serve her people. In Nardeen's character, I chose to implant my traditions, reflect in her dress: the color of the dress, the colors of the dress that sewed in the dress. While Amira is another example of any grand-daughter in my society.The whole story reflects the strong relationship that gathers the families in Palestinian society. The scenes in the story are a collection of my own childhood. The places where I used to spend my childhood, the view of the sea, the view of the boat, the view of the farm: everything is all a combination of a shattered childhood.Because I've always believed that women are capable of doing anything they want, that's why I joined the Wise Not Withered project. The idea of the project is to erase the stereotype image of women all over the world, and to show them that women are educated, strong, and can achieve anything they want. The whole experience of the project was amazing, and it let me get to know different people from different cultures worldwide."And here is Natalia, introducing herself and talking about the gorgeous illustrations she made of our protagonist Nardeen, and her grand-daughter Amira."Hi, my name is Natalia, AKA Nillus Art. I'm from Argentina, so I'm really sorry for my English right now. And well, I'm going to try my best. I describe my art style like girls, girls, girls! Because like eighty percent of my work are female characters. They are everything to me, I love drawing women. Also I love to use gold, doing really really beautiful flowing hair, and you see pink, blue, and violet in my palette because they are my favorite colors ever.https://www.instagram.com/p/Bw75mfBlYPG/I think one of my favorite pieces are some of the latest pieces I made with red, black, and gold. I'm making a series of mythological creatures. A year ago I made a spirit, and I think I used blue, green, and pink. That is also a great palette. It was like super hard, because the piece is really little, and have so many details. I don't know why I made that to myself. So they were really difficult to do, and I'm so proud of them. I hope you like these pieces too, in the story's work.I really love the story, and it made me remember a lot of my granny. I think Nardeen is so like her. I think the story is amazing, because you have so many depths in the characters, you have so many moments... They are so well-balanced: you have bad moments, you have good moments, you have dramatic moments. I think you will find yourself loving the characters in the end of the story. What I love the most about Nardeen is that even in a really dark moment, she finds herself, keeping on, and doing the next right thing. And I think she is so brave, and a lot of people are going to love her for that.I joined this project because I love the idea of representation of older women in the media. As a gamer and comic reader, it's really sad to see that 40+ woman characters are only support or really secondary characters. I think that telling these stories really reflect women and their value. I know I'm going to grow old someday, and I hope to be like them, like all these characters. Keep doing what I love, because you have no limit to do what you love if you're alive."[caption id="attachment_664" align="aligncenter" width="1806"]Illustration by Natalia—Hope you enjoyed the episode! Thanks for listening. I'm a bit slower than usual to get them out right now, but there are indeed nine more characters, so please stay tuned for more showcases!

Brandon: "The function of leadership is to produce more leaders, not more followers." Ralph Nader. I am Brandon Anderson and I'm a Tri-Cities influencer. Speaker 5: So to be a go-to guy or a go-to girl, you must push through your fear of failure. Introduction: Raising the water level of leadership in the Tri-Cities of Eastern Washington, it's the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. Welcome to the TCI podcast, where local leadership and self-leadership expert, Paul Casey, interviews local CEOs, entrepreneurs, and nonprofit executives, to hear how they lead themselves and their teams so we can all benefit from their wisdom and experience. Introduction: Here's your host, Paul Casey of Growing Forward Services, coaching and equipping individuals and teams to spark breakthrough success. Paul Casey: Thanks for joining me for today's episode with Shawn Sant. He is the Franklin County Prosecutor. And when I asked Shawn for something quirky or funny about himself, he had a fun little story that I'm going to let him tell. Shawn Sant: All right, well you asked about a story and I was just thinking of something recently just because the nicer weather coming out and it's bike riding time and I've always enjoyed riding the bike. And on this particular year, this was just a couple of years back, I got a new bike, new pedals, new bike clips, so still kind of getting used to the idea that I'm attached to the bike in a different way, and going for one of my favorite rides along the river on the Pasco side, it was time to take a break. I think I had to grab my phone out or something like that. So, rather than unclip and everything else, there was a nice little road sign along the path so I figured, "Oh this is great. I'll just grab onto that and lean against it." Shawn Sant: Still hooked in with my pedals and then lo and behold, I'm getting ready to go, I went to kind of push away but pushed a little too much and because I hadn't had forward momentum yet, I kind of tipped right on over and I was looking around to see if anybody saw this embarrassing moment, to see if I was going to be on a YouTube channel or whatnot. But anyway, that was my introduction to bike clips. So I was glad, at least, that I fell on the grass side so it wasn't too bad. Other than damaging my pride, I guess, of thinking I was an avid cyclist, so I guess anybody that saw found out otherwise. But maybe others had a worse- Paul Casey: That's awesome. That's awesome. Shawn Sant: So, I'll take the fall in the grass and learn that way. Paul Casey: That's right. That's right. I like bicycling too, but it's very recreational and I haven't taken the plunge with the clips yet. Shawn Sant: Yeah, it was a new experience for me, so. Paul Casey: Well, we'll dive in after checking in with our Tri-Cities Influencer sponsor. Paul Casey: The C12 Group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings, during which 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues biblically. Additionally, members receive a 90-minute personal coaching session each month. Information is available from Tom Walther at (715) 459-9611 or online at C12Easternwa.com. Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Paul Casey: Well, welcome Shawn. I was privileged to meet you, I think it was at a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce event, but I've seen you in the community of many networking things and with some of my other attorney friends and just great to finally get to spend some time with you today. Shawn Sant: Yeah, glad, thanks for the invite. Paul Casey: So our Tri-Cities Influencers can get to know you, take us through some of your past positions and what led you up to what you're doing now? Shawn Sant: Well, I guess going back, even back in high school, I guess, one has an experience with the law of maybe driving a little too fast, as most a young teenage drivers do. So I guess I'd always been kind of having an interest in law enforcement. My grandfather was a retired police officer from Richland back in '69. He was actually a part of the original Richland police force when they transitioned from the Hanford site into an incorporated city in '59, and so I guess it's kind of been in the blood of having that interest, seeing his badges on the wall and things like that from his days as a Richland officer. So, I guess it started with me going for a ride-along with one of the Richland canine officers. And that really kind of got me hooked on what the profession was all about. Shawn Sant: I've always been a social kind of individual. Loved coming in contact with different people, and obviously in law enforcement it's a little different of the types of contacts we would have with people. But that was always something that I liked. I liked the job where every day was different. And so that kind of just caught my interest and I pursued the Reserve Academy at the recommendation of a couple of the officers that I rode with as a ride-along, and that was kind of it. Shawn Sant: You know, in my Reserve Academy class back in '92 I remember several of our participants, they've gone on to long careers and many are still in law enforcement today as full-time law enforcement officers. So that was kind of my start in that interest. It allowed me time to do that part-time as I went through school, working at UPS to get me through at CBC. Shawn Sant: I don't know why they call it a two-year degree because it seemed like I probably spent four or five years working at it between two different jobs. And of course I was trying to put in as much hours as I could. So there was times when I was putting in 40 hours a week with the officers writing on their shifts and getting my hours so I could eventually be qualified to be out on my own. Because once you have so many hours, you kind of progress from a third- to second- and first-class officer. At least that's how they did it at the time. And then once you had had enough hours, your training officer felt you were capable of going out on your own, you could basically do all the things that regular officers would do. Shawn Sant: And so that was a great start for me. That caught an interest and eventually I decided to pursue full-time law enforcement about three-and-a-half years later, hadn't quite finished up my degree yet and got married in '95 and so now I'm just starting a job as a new police officer out in Prosser now and did that for about two-and-a-half years and just decided that I always had that interest in law. I've always enjoyed the courtroom. I've gone to court a couple of times as a law enforcement officer to testify, and I always thought, you know what, I'd like to be the person in the room and being the one kind of directing the show, so to speak. And so that was kind of my thought and I was looking at opportunities of Do I go off to get a four-year degree somewhere. Shawn Sant: I always had been an admirer of many of my colleagues that had served in the military and I thought, you know what, I'm not too old, definitely not the younger of the guys that would go in right out of high school. So I actually got into the Air Force just before my 28th birthday and that was the cutoff. You'd have to get kind of special permission if you get older than that. So, of course, that was a new challenge for me. Now, I'm kind of referred to as Pop's among my young airman that I was with and as a former police officer. So that was kind of going backwards, contrary, I guess, to a lot of other people's job or career progression. Usually they get two or four years in military service out of the way when they're younger. So here I am almost 28 and joining. Shawn Sant: And so that was a great opportunity for me. We really enjoyed it, the family enjoyed it. We had one child at the time, got an opportunity to be deployed overseas a few different places, and I was able to finish up my degree during that time and looked at the possibility of going either to the JAG or something I had a passion for, which was going back to a prosecutor's office. So that worked out. Shawn Sant: So after the military, returned back to Moscow, Idaho, straight out of the military and began law school there in 2001 and that took me through for three years. And then we came back to Pasco and started as a deputy prosecutor in the Franklin County Prosecutor's Office. And so I got to now be in that position of handling all those cases that I had done previously out in the field of being the officer arresting folks for DUI or domestic violence or other felony crimes, and now I got to do that in district court and juvenile court as a young deputy prosecutor. Shawn Sant: So, anyway, I enjoyed that and I was looking for, you know, even in our office today, we don't have a lot of transition, which I think is a good benefit. People enjoy the work that they do for us in the office. And there wasn't a lot of movement and I knew that I needed to gain some experience handling more challenging cases. So I ended up leaving the Prosecutor's Office after a couple of years and went into private practice, and that gave me a great opportunity to be on kind of the other side of things. And I never thought, many of my law enforcement friends that are like, "What, are you crazy? You're a defense attorney now? What are you doing?" Shawn Sant: And it's like, well if you figure it out, it's like we all have an important role. We have an important role to ensure justice. And whether you're on the defense side or the prosecution side, we each have that important responsibility. And that's something I've really enjoyed. And sometimes it's hard to explain to people because they think that you're kind of aligned somehow with the representation of your client. And as anybody knows, if you're representing a client through the divorce process, of course you've got to zealously represent your client's position. It doesn't necessarily mean you have to agree with them philosophically or otherwise, but you have a duty or responsibility to serve them and make sure that they feel that you're giving them 100% to their cause within, of course, the ethical rules and in everything else. Shawn Sant: So to me it was a great opportunity. I was glad I had that opportunity to be on the other side, to be on the defense side. It has its own different challenges, but I enjoyed it. I thought, "Hey this is something I enjoy." I've always kind of taken a passion of meeting people and sometimes you're meeting people that have made a mistake and obviously they violated the law, but in that moment, you're able to kind of sit down and be almost like a counselor. And that's why oftentimes lawyers are referred to as counselors. Shawn Sant: And so I really enjoyed that part of it and that gave me experience representing people that are accused of homicide all the way down to low level DUI cases that I took. And so that just kind of gave me a good well-rounded experience. And you know, I always had wanted to be the prosecutor, to be the elected prosecutor, and I thought, you know what, I know it's kind of early in my law career, but you know what, I'm going to throw my name in, I think I've had a well-rounded experience up to this point. I had been on the law enforcement side, I've been on the defense side, I was a prior DPA and yeah, certainly never would claim that you know everything because the joy about the job is that you constantly get to learn something new. Shawn Sant: And so I decided to run for the elected prosecutor position in 2010 and I thought, "Hey, even if I don't make it, I'm letting people know that this is where my passion is." And at some point I would want to run again, even if I didn't make it in 2010. I was fortunate and blessed to have made it in 2010 and so I took office in 2011 and have been doing that since that time. Shawn Sant: So yeah, it's kind of been a ride with as far as the different experiences and opportunities. As a prosecutor you handle not just the criminal, those are usually the matters that catch up with the media and kind of what most people will follow, but we're also doing a lot of things behind the scenes. We're navigating employment issues, civil claims against the County. We're trying to defend and represent the County on various civil matters as well. We have the risk manager that's in my office and so I work closely with her and trying to navigate and limit risk to the County, which ultimately will protect the taxpayers both with security but also protect their financial interests as well. Shawn Sant: So that's been kind of a joy of continuing to serve in that capacity. So yeah, it's, it's been a great opportunity and I've enjoyed every kind of, I think everything that I've done over my life, from experiences in high school through being a reserve officer, they all kind of built up and given me a unique perspective on society. And I think that's an important part as a role as a prosecutor is being able to kind of understand the big picture. Paul Casey: Yeah. What a fascinating journey and I'm sure along the way you've been able to use your talents, your strengths. I'm a very big strengths-based leadership, kind of coach myself. What would you say are your key strengths that you've used all along the way and how do you use those to help those around you be successful? Shawn Sant: I think one of the things that I really appreciate with the way we do in our office is many times people might think, "Oh, you're the lead prosecutor, so you're really directing." Now certainly I am involved in all of our big cases, but I can't do that alone. I rely on a good team and I think what has worked best for us is empowering the deputies of my office to kind of have ownership of the course of a case. And so if they're working a case, for good or bad, I want them to have that experience along the way as well because that makes us all better attorneys. When you get a fall on the sword, so to speak, if like, you took it in a direction that maybe didn't play out, well, that's kind of a learning lesson. Shawn Sant: So my job of course is to make sure, one, we're doing everything legally and ethically in line and kind of creating a culture of trying to look at kind of a holistic approach for, what are the best ways we could protect our community? What are some of the best ways we could resolve cases? Because we have limited resources, we continue to grow, our population continues to grow, which means our crime rate is dropping because we have more law abiding citizens moving into our community. Right? Shawn Sant: But at the same time when you have more people, that just means necessarily you're going to have more cases. And so the office is busy and so we've had to kind of adopt a different kind of a strategy. And so we've looked at a program that my predecessor started, the Felony Diversion Program, and we kind of took it to a new level of trying to put a priority for when first time felony offenders as an adult when they come through, if it's a non-violent offense, non-sex offense, we're looking to really question what's the reason why this case should not go to that Felony Diversion Program? Shawn Sant: And I wanted to do a study to kind of evaluate is this an effective program? And so we pulled statistics from 2011 to 2017 to see how effective this program is. And what we found is that 84% of those individuals completing the program, they remained crime-free. So to me, I thought that was a great statistic. As I think what it does is it just like, I try to empower my individual deputies that are handling a case to have that ownership. If you put that kind of ownership on defendants, yeah, they're an adult, they're 18, but we all know, I mean I was 18 when I was still a senior in high school, and I know for certain I was not an adult by the means that you would think of as a mature individual, right? Paul Casey: Brain's not fully developed yet. Shawn Sant: Absolutely. And so I recognize that, there's been a lot of studies, I know a lot of the defense started doing that, but even prosecutors recognize that individuals, especially males probably that are 18 to 25, the males still lead the criminal majority, those committing crimes are males age 15 to 24, so that's still a very large age bracket. You've still got kids and you have kids transitioning to adulthood. Shawn Sant: So what we want to do is we want to be able to catch those individuals that may not have had an opportunity through the juvenile court system that is focused on rehabilitation or counseling and give those individuals an opportunity. If they got a first time felony offense, let's say someone did something stupid, went to Walmart thought it was a good idea to walk out with a big screen TV because it was super bowl weekend and they thought they could get away with it, but they didn't. And so now we got to figure out, well, let's see, what can we do? If we charge them with a felony, maybe they lose their job, maybe if they have a young family, now the person that's working is no longer able to provide for the family. And so what are the kind of the consequential impacts that really harms us as a society? Shawn Sant: So we tried to look at that and figure out that, you know what, that Felony Diversion Program can really fill a void that I think we have in the criminal justice system. So it gives the accountability, that ownership, back on the individual because at that point, if they are entered into the program, they have to pay back restitution in a shortened timeframe. In the traditional model, if someone steals something like $2,000, $3,000, they might only pay $25, $50 a month, if that, depending on the circumstances afterwards. Shawn Sant: But if they want to get the benefit of having this felony charge dropped through our district court in the Felony Diversion Program, they have to fully pay back the victim for restitution. So it's a good win for victims. They're getting their value in a much quicker manner, especially if we're talking about property crimes. It also puts the onus back on the individual, the one that found themselves in the predicament that they are. Because let's face it, it's not easy going through the court system. They're going to have to take time off from work. They're going to have to sacrifice time away from the kids. They're going to have to do a community service hours. They're going to have to give back to the community with their time. And I think that's essential and hopefully it reinforces the message that, "Hey, you screwed this up and only you can have ownership if you want to see this case go away." Shawn Sant: So I think that's been very successful with that 84% number. We continue to see individuals go through that program and so that's something that everybody in our office now has kind of from that culture mindset of, well, can we adjust our workloads, can we take resources out of the superior court and resolve these cases in our Felony Diversion Program. That saves the taxpayer money as well because it's a cheaper process. Still takes this same lawyering time, but it's a cheaper process rather than going through the trial process through superior court. Paul Casey: Yeah. It's so creative. What a creative program to get at the heart of the issue and realize the volume is bigger of people, the community impact taking in all the views of who's affected by these crimes, but keeping the ownership on the person who made the bad choice, and that's good. Shawn Sant: Yeah. We hope they learn that lesson and hopefully that first offense is the last offense as well. Paul Casey: Yeah, they're getting a second chance, which is really awesome and it's cool that many have learned their lesson as a result of that and go crime-free. I love how you also said about how you empower your deputies and you're the upfront guy, but all this work is getting done behind you making you look good, so to speak, up front and to really, you know, you must have a lot of trust in your team. Shawn Sant: And that's one of the things, and I guess that's kind of the challenge for me is because I really like to meet with my deputies. You know, I'll walk down the hall and I'll drop in because each of them has their own unique workload or cases that they're working. And I like just kind of brainstorming, you know, "Hey, how's it going on this case? Do we need to look at something different as we prepare", where we know we have a trial coming up, it's like, "Okay, let's now talk." And it's not just me, it'll be my criminal chief, we'll be doing the same thing. Or sometimes we have a meeting where I'm calling everybody, "Hey, conference room, we need to discuss a brand new case and kind of brainstorm because we have some time sensitive issues." Shawn Sant: So I really like that part and I really like making sure everybody feels that they're contributing, because really they are, it's something that they feel like they're doing, it's actually an active and interactive process. And I enjoy that. You know, we're a small office, there's 26 of us in the office, and you know, just working together like that, it really builds good relationships. And I think that's one of the things that, even when I was there as a deputy, we didn't have a lot of people leaving. I think they enjoy that kind of work. Yes, you could make more money on the side in the civil world. But I think it's the commitment to public service that every individual, including our staff members, that they have a little bit of that pride of making a difference in the community that we live in. And I think that's why it's a great place to work. Paul Casey: Yeah. The purpose is that's their big "why" for coming to work every day. And it's the ultimate in serving your community is awesome. And also, they say the key to engagement is connecting to that big purpose and feeling like you're contributing. And you've got both of those things working with your staff. Paul Casey: Well, hey, before we dive in and find out what some of Shawn's life hacks are to make him a success, let's check in with our Tri-Cities Influencer sponsor. Paul Casey: If you could trade one day each month for targeted application of biblical business practices, purposeful accountability and Godly pure counsel, would you consider it a wise investment? The C12 Group is a national organization focused on spiritual and professional development of Christian CEOs and business owners. Members participate in professionally facilitated monthly meetings where 12 experienced Christian CEOs exchange ideas to solve business issues. Biblically information is available from Tom Walther at (715) 459-9611 or online at C12Easternwa.com. Thank you for your support of leadership development in the Tri-Cities. Paul Casey: So Shawn, what are some of a few of your life hacks that you do on a day-to-day basis to keep you successful? Shawn Sant: Yeah, that's a tough one, because when I think of life hacks, I think of hack on a computer, you know, what's the hack on a computer and how does that relate to a hack in life? But no, I think really what the driving force behind that is, how can we be successful in the workplace, especially in the work environment that we are in? We're dealing with some very stressful and kind of dire situations, especially when you get into crimes involving children. That's extremely stressful on our people. And one of the things that I got to say was a great, you know, just kind of the culture that we have in the office. Shawn Sant: I've always invited people to propose ideas and one of our ideas that was proposed by a staff member, she's our crime victim witness coordinator and she got involved with using the Go Team Therapy dogs. And so that was a great opportunity for me a few years back to kind of become acquainted with that and we eventually were able to get approval to have them be associated essentially with our office where they will come in when we have young children that have been victims of crimes and these dogs are great. They just bring relaxation to a person, especially young people. But honestly, sometimes when they come into the office it's good for the attorneys because they kind of get to relax a little bit as well. It's kind of therapy for my employees. Paul Casey: You've got to post that on social media, the attorney's petting the dogs, that would be awesome. Shawn Sant: I'll tell you that because some of the attorneys have actually said, "Hey, can we have these dogs come into the office?" You know, because they're going through some stressful cases and you know, it does bring a joy and you know what, if it could bring joy to us and kind of release our stress, think about the stresses that are on our young victims especially. So we found some great success. Shawn Sant: There are people that didn't really want to talk about what a tragedy had happened to them as they have to share and almost relive that trauma again as we're preparing for trial. But they've been able to do that with the assistance of a therapy dog. The Go Team dogs are great, they're very calm. I've never seen the variety of different dogs that just had their own personalities, just like we as people have different personalities, but each one of them just is able to bring in some relaxation and comfort to these victims. Shawn Sant: And so again, I think about a life hack, I'm like, you know what, that was a great opportunity because someone proposed that in the office and we wanted to make sure that we made sure we ran through with our risk management and made sure that we're not doing anything to jeopardize the health and safety of our people or the people that would be coming to visit our office. And we got through approval with that. So we're grateful that the commissioners approved them being able to be a part of that program within our office. And it's just been a great opportunity. And to me, I think that's been really a great life hack because, frankly, I can't think of a better way to relieve stress than having the dogs visit the work day. Shawn Sant: You know, during the work day, it's kind of hard because you're going through cases. But as soon as you hear the leash or the collar kind of rattle, you know, everybody likes to get up from their work and come greet the dogs. Paul Casey: So they had the recent, I went to the National Speakers Association Conference last year and they had a pet, the local adoption agency came and brought these dogs that we could just take a pet break. And it was awesome in the middle of a long day of listening to seminars to pet the dogs. I really loved that. That's very cool. Paul Casey: So who influences you? How do you keep growing yourself outside the courtroom? Who do you surround yourself with, whether that's afar, through books or videos or mentors, who influences you? Shawn Sant: You know, I think a lot of people. I mean I like to interact with a lot of different groups. I'm a member of the local Kiwanis Club in Pasco, I am a member of the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, Pasco Chamber of Commerce, Tri-Cities Chamber of Commerce. You know, going to these different functions, you get to interact with a lot of professionals. People I look up to and I think, you know, I can't put a finger on any one of our local leaders, but I really think and believe that all of us, whether you're a kind of an elected leader or in a prominent position in your work life, I really think it's just the everyday interactions with all of us together. I think everybody has something to offer and I think that gives me a positive outlook every day that I go to my a job. Shawn Sant: You could really think that it could be a very depressing work dealing with some of the things. But I think when you look at it of looking around and seeing young families raising kids and thinking about, hey, what are the challenges that they're going through now compared to when we were raising our young family in the 90s, and you know, our kids didn't grow up with a cell phone in their hand and knowing how to play games on a phone under the age of one years old. You know, they learned that later, but it's just a very different environment. So I think one of the things I've enjoyed doing is I love our local libraries. The Mid-Columbia Library has a great app on there for listening to books. And sometimes I find myself where if I don't have the time to have a book, a physical book in front of me, I could be able to, if I'm traveling for work or other things, I can listen to an audio book. And there's some great audio books out there. Shawn Sant: I like listening to some of the historic stories. I typically like more accounts on the nonfiction side, the history that maybe I didn't know enough about. One of my favorite books was from Adam Makos, A Higher Call, about World War II pilots, a German pilot that encountered a downed B-17 aircraft and just was wondering how can that plane fly because the way it was damaged, it shouldn't fly. And of course, you know, as a private pilot myself, I was interested in anything revolving around aviation. Shawn Sant: But that book just kind of inspired me because what it really showed us is that you think about how horrific World War II was, it talks about the reality that hey, these Germans were fighting for what they believed in or for their country. The Americans were trying to fight to liberate Europe and fighting for their cause. But deep down we were all the same. We all had families, people sacrificed and lost loved ones on both sides. And I think that book just kind of brought that reality of how we could look at life better today of realizing that hey, despite the political differences we may have, can't we all just get along and sit down and discuss like we used to. Shawn Sant: It seems the opportunities where people used to go and have coffee or breakfast at their favorite breakfast spot and being able to sit down and even they could believe different perspectives on politics or whatever, they could talk issues out. And I think those are the circumstances I enjoy. I like meeting with people on different perspectives because I find I walk away from that learning something new or recognizing, you know, I haven't thought about that before but that's really important to consider, thank you. Shawn Sant: Because I think all of that helps build up what my resources are now as in my job it's like, okay, I have that perspective now I realize this is not just a cut and dry, this is one side. Because I've learned from being on both sides of a case representing defendants as well as being on the prosecution side, there's always two sides. Let's make sure that we hear both sides out and maybe we can resolve things by meeting somewhere in that Venn diagram. You know, that little spot in the middle where each side has to give something up, but still walk away with the best interest of all parties. And I always believe in trying to look for that win-win. Paul Casey: Yeah, seeking to understand before being understood. I love this concept of respectful dialogue, for sure. Paul Casey: Well finally, Shawn, what advice would you give to new leaders or anyone that wants to keep growing and gaining more influence? Shawn Sant: I guess just looking at what I think has worked well with our office or from my observations, because that's one of the things I really enjoy. You know, not just interacting with people but kind of observing what are successful businesses doing that really empower people. And I think it's really giving that ownership or giving that responsibility. So, regardless of what kind of position someone does, recognizing that hey, you're part of this team. I mean if you're running a big office building, let's say if it's Amazon in Seattle, you know from the person that's cleaning the building, they're a part of making that organization successful. Shawn Sant: And I think looking at our office too, we don't really have, yes we all have our different responsibilities, but we really are all dependent on each other to really succeed. And I think we have that great relationship and I think that's something always to remember is no matter what position you are in the company, if you're not able to empower people from, I guess your more entry level positions, because I've always looked at it as, if people get opportunities to go to another job, if I could say, "Hey, I hope that I've given them some opportunities or experiences while they were here with us for a short time that it allowed them to succeed elsewhere", to me, I think that's great. Shawn Sant: It's kind of like I think being a teacher. I think teaching has got to be one of the most rewarding professions for that reason because they are doing something to share their knowledge, share their wisdom, and teach and inspire kids, and then they get to see those kids many years later doing whatever. Paul Casey: And to be part of the journey, right? Shawn Sant: Yes, they were part of that. I think as long as we can make sure that regardless of what profession you're in, if you could just make sure that you treat everybody as an equal opportunity to succeed, regardless of that position in the company, I think that'll make that person successful. Paul Casey: Yes. So Tri-Cities influencers add value at whatever stage of the journey you interact with people so that they can be better and you've left just a little imprint on their life. So Shawn, how can our listeners best connect with you? Shawn Sant: Well, I'm on Facebook. That seems to be a great way to connect or LinkedIn, the two primary, it seems like for a business folks, always at my office, I'm pretty transparent. I have my contact information there. If people want to reach out or have a question on a case or kind of an idea that they have for criminal justice reform. I've always been open and I've always met, even with people that have been upset with me at times, but we've been able to walk away in the end and realize I think have an appreciation for each other's viewpoints at the end of the day and that's something that I think, again, is a part of the successful part of being a successful leader is being able to hear those that don't necessarily agree with you and see what you can learn from that. Paul Casey: Well, thanks again for all you do to make the Tri-Cities a great place and keep leading well. Shawn Sant: Thank you very much. Paul Casey: Let me wrap up our podcast today with a leadership resource to recommend, and it's my Leader Launcher Program. Leader Launcher is for young professionals and emerging leaders here in the Tri-Cities who really are motivated to take their leadership to the next level. You may not have that leadership position yet or maybe it's a mid-level manager position, but you want to go to that next level. It's a two-hour seminar on leadership once a month and then two weeks later there's a mastermind group with people from other industries to get together and find out how to apply that teaching to your day-to-day job. Paul Casey: Also, you set some goals and keep each other accountable and we're forming a little community here in the Tri-Cities, so you go to leader-launcher.com, leader-launcher.com. We'd love to have you as part of the tribe, and again, we meet on the second and fourth Tuesdays. Paul Casey: Again, this is Paul Casey. I want to thank my guest, Shawn Sant from the Franklin County Prosecutor's Office for being here today on the Tri-Cities Influencer podcast. We also want to thank our TCI sponsors and invite you to support them. We appreciate you making this possible so that we can collaborate and help inspire leaders in our community. Paul Casey: Finally, one more leadership tidbit for the road to help you make a difference in your circle of influence. It's Ralph Marston and he says, "Excellence is not a skill, it's an attitude." Paul Casey: Until next time, KGF, Keep Growing Forward. Introduction: Thank you to our listeners for tuning in to today's show. Paul Casey is on a mission to add value to leaders by providing practical tools and strategies that reduce stress in their lives and on their teams, so that they can enjoy life and leadership and experience their key desired results. Introduction: If you'd like more help from Paul in your leadership development, connect with him at growingforward@paulcasey.org, for consultation that can help you move past your current challenges and create a strategy for growing your life or your team forward. Introduction: Paul would also like to help you restore sanity to your crazy schedule and get your priorities done every day by offering you his free Control My Calendar Checklist. Go to www.takebackmycalender.com for that productivity tool, or open a text message to 72000 and type the word "growing". Speaker 6: Tri-Cities Influencer podcast was recorded at Fuse SPC by Bill Wagner of Safe Strategies.  

Today we've got James Newbury on the show. James is an absolute legend in the CrossFit community, he was awarded Australia's fittest man in 2017 and has consistently reached new levels of physical excellence throughout his career. James takes a soulful and holistic approach to fitness and athleticism catering his movement programs and classes to serve his wider community. James is passionate about longevity in body and in mind, and places a huge emphasis on the power of intentional rest and recovery, especially when training hard. James shines a light on the potency of an embodied physical practice, for anyone out there who is into CrossFit or curious about it, tuning into today's chat is an absolute must.   Mason and James discuss: The practice of CrossFit. The importance of mindset and sustainable training. Exercise/movement as preparation for life. James' cycling accident and the natural measures he used to accelerate his recovery. The power of recovery in general, one of James’ favourite sayings is "recover harder than you work out". Longevity in fitness and in life itself. Using visualisation as a performance strategy. James' top recovery practices. James' favourite herbs, foods and supplements. The potency of nose breathing.   Who is James Newbury ? With a background in semi professional Rugby League James Newbury has dabbled in many sports, eventually finding his true passion in CrossFit. In 2013 James founded Adelaide specialist gym, Soul65. From here James has excelled in CrossFit competitions across the sport and is currently the 27th fittest man in the world. James has competed at the CrossFit Pacific Regionals for the past 5 years finishing 1st in 2017 earning him the title of 'Australia's Fittest Man'.   Resources: James Instagram James Facebook James Website James' Gym   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Mason: (00:00) James, thanks for being here, man.   James Newbury: (00:02) Hey, how you doing?   Mason: (00:03) Yeah, I'm cruising. How you doing down there?   James Newbury: (00:06) I'm good. I'm good. The weather is actually perfect today. It's about 20 degrees and not a cloud in the sky, not a breath of wind, it's perfect.   Mason: (00:14) Yeah, nice one, man. We're cruising on here with the fires on the border in Byron. It's one of those weird days because we had got a little bit of rain the other day so the smoke's cleared. I think unlike Sydney's kind of coping the smoke today. But for us, it just seems like this perfect, cloudless day at the moment.   James Newbury: (00:42) Oh, man. I've been seeing all the news about the fires. So devastating. Hopefully it's under control.   Mason: (00:43) I don't think it's getting there. We've kind of got like nothing compared to what's going on outside of Port Macquarie, I think we've got like 6000 hectares on fire at the back here. Which is still significant enough. Anyway, enough on that for now. What was your rugby league background? I obviously forgot to ask you.   James Newbury: (01:04) I started playing rugby league back when I was about 11 or 12. I got into it a little bit late.   Mason: (01:11) Me too. That's about when I started.   James Newbury: (01:16) I was born in the Blue Mountains down in Sydney and then I moved to Adelaide when I was probably eight years old. And then I got hooked on it after doing a school carnival. And I was just like, wow, this is so cool. You get to tackle other kids and you're allowed to do it. At that time, I was like, oh, whatever I could do to get out of day school, like any type of sport, I would just be like, yeah, let's go do this. And then I got really hooked on it. Back for my age when I was playing, everyone caught up to me eventually and overtook me. But at that time, I was fairly fast for a young kid. And then as everyone hit puberty, they kind of all caught up to me and go faster than me. But back then, that was kind of like my strength. So I really enjoyed playing football because at that age you kind of just run around everybody.   James Newbury: (02:06) Basically from there, I just got really hooked on that and I played up until I was about 21. I moved to Brisbane, I played in Brisbane for a little while. I moved to Sydney when I was like 19, played in Sydney for a little while. And yeah, during my teens, played a lot of state carnivals. I got picked in a couple of affiliated states, Australian teams, which was really cool. So like under 15 and under 18 Australian team. That was my thing for probably almost eight or nine years. Absolutely loved it. And yeah, after that, during one of the preseasons of football, that's when I found CrossFit. So, that kind of just moved a different path.   Mason: (02:50) And then you just deviated for the reason, just like that was what you were enjoying. So you went that direction?   James Newbury: (02:55) Yeah, exactly. I really liked the fact that with CrossFit, being an individual sport, you kind of got out what you put in. So if you trained really hard and you had some decent athletic ability already, you would win the competition, it's just as simple as that, it was so black and white. Whereas with football, you could do all the training you liked, you could put as much effort in. But then at the end of the day, it really came down to the coach whether they wanted to pick you in the team for that week or not pick you at all. So it wasn't a biased or it wasn't someone else's choice. It was really like if I wanted to train and train hard every day and make sure I recovered well and I was competing optimally, you'd reap the benefits at the end of the competition and you'd take first place or take second place or whatever it may be.   Mason: (03:50) You've been like my kind of initiation into like understanding CrossFit a little bit more. I think it's been about two years we've been chatting on Instagram. We never actually tuned in but you've been on the tonic herbs, which has always been to my delight. CrossFit beyond the cliche edges, you generally hear about the people doing it poorly. It's like with health, it's like with anything, it's like with herbalism and adaptogens, it's like with veganism it's like with us, trippers, we're into detoxification. There's always those people on the edges doing it without a centredness and doing it within a complete system but kind of can give the rest of it a bad name. That's kind of been like in the beginning, it was just, busted shoulders was what I heard, Crossfit being a physio's best friend.   James Newbury: (04:46) Yeah. Don't worry. I hear it all the time. It's pretty normal. And I guess like, the idea behind it is, I guess, for a lot of people, they get so hooked on this thing that they've fallen in love with so quickly that all they want to do is progress and get better so fast. Whereas that's not always the best thing. It's like when someone starts eating a better diet, they're just, all they want to do is talk about it and tell their friends and just go crazy and it becomes this like compulsive, obsessive thing that they just can't shut up about. And then when they get hooked on that and they see a little bit of result, they just run with it and they run with it so fast that usually they don't spend the time going through all the steps and processes to really figure out what they're doing. And that's usually when they push themselves enough to cause an injury.   James Newbury: (05:36) So, I think it comes down to at the end of the day, the coach that's coaching them, giving them recommendations and guiding them through that process and doing it well. I was lucky enough to have a great coach in the beginning to hold me back when I needed to be held back it needed to be held back or tell me to work on this more. And for a lot of people it's just like, and for a coach, especially if someone goes and opens a gym and because that's what I want to do and that's like their passion is like I want to open a gym and that's what I want to do, I want to help people, if they have clients that are seeing really quick fast results and it's putting a smile on their face, all they want to do is encourage that more.   James Newbury: (06:14) They get caught up in just feeding these people, quick, fast results. But really, all they're really doing is training bad patterns of movement and then at the end of the day, the people do end up hurt. But I think their intentions in the beginning are quite good but they also need to take a step back and have a look at how they're actually helping progress their clients.   James Newbury: (06:36) So, it's kind of a double-edged thing here. It's like, I really want to help, but what they're doing sometimes isn't the best. These days, I think the coaching is getting better and better. So, I do understand where the stigma comes from.   Mason: (06:51) Well, I mean, as I said, it's so interesting talking about it because you know that that's the reality and because you can see it's the exact same conversation that happens around dietary stuff. And people get hooked real quick. If you keep on going in that short gratification kind of period, you're going to be generally working off cues and rule based kind of like, and it's the same with yoga as well. You see people just like rip their bodies apart with yoga when they're going based on the cue, hang on, that's my Slack ticking along. That's me, everybody, non stop working.   Mason: (07:26) But you can see everyone go based on, it's like an Ashtanga first series, I haven't really ever done it myself but you've seen bodies come out and be like, you need to achieve these patterns of movement in order to progress to the second stage of movement, whatever it is. And although there's lots of beautiful people and coaches and teachers training people on how to do that responsibly, of course, it gets diluted very quickly when there's business involved and when there's like Instagram involved and all those kinds of things.   Mason: (07:55) So it's fascinating to hear that the same is happening in CrossFit where people are just obviously going to the gain or going to master the movement, but perhaps their physiology doesn't want to do that movement in that way. So, when you talk about there being that good coach that spaciousness between just getting the smile on your dial and then sustainably using CrossFit, I guess we're talking about training in general as well when it comes to yourself. Is CrossFit like across the board like triathlon?   James Newbury: (08:28) These days it is because I guess if you go to an everyday local CrossFit competition, you probably just get the standard in the gym style deadlifts and muscle ups and pull ups and handstands and things of that nature. Whereas when you go to say bigger comps and they have the ability to go outside the box a bit more, you'll get the open water swims and you'll get the paddle boards and you get stand up paddles and you'll get maybe some mountain biking or trail running or triathlon style things or even like obstacle courses and things like that. So yeah, it's very broad in general. But basically, it's just work capacity across anything.   James Newbury: (09:13) So, whatever gets your body moving in a measured scenario in terms of work capacity, whether it's moving a ton of bricks from A to B or running from A to B, then jumping in the water and swimming from A to B, basically work capacity, whatever it is, whether it's lifting weights from ground overhead or doing a pull up from full extension of the arms to chin over bar. It's just trying to get your body to move in as many different combinations as possible and doing it as time efficient as possible. That's kind of the key is just trying to use your entire base of fitness, whatever it is.   James Newbury: (09:49) So, for me, getting ready for competitions that might be international, people are trying to broaden the spectrum of how much we can test. I think the more that they do that, the better athlete they'll find. So yeah, chucking in triathlons or long distance running into a mix of maybe pulling a very heavy deadlift or heavy clean and jerk, that's going to find the most broad athlete who can achieve them the most tasks to the best ability.   Mason: (10:19) I get the appeal of that. Like anything, that just sounds fun to be testing yourself on so many, like in such a wide array. And as well, at times when, I can tell, if much of our training gets ambiguous and doesn't become task-oriented or we don't have the ability to drive ourselves towards a goal, having just simply, just being able to time that effort is again, sounds fun.   James Newbury: (10:46) Yeah, it totally is. And I think as soon as you put a timer on something, it's just like people automatically just get this natural feeling of their little bit of competitiveness just gets activated and makes them work a little bit harder sometimes. And sometimes it's great and then other times there's a time and a place just to go about the movements and do just a movement satisfaction, movement conditioning, movement skill progression.   James Newbury: (11:15) So, there are days where I might feel a little bit burned or I might feel like I'm not really with it at the moment to push to a particular capacity. So I can go out and I can just trod it out just nice and easy. It gets me in a mindset that you don't always have to be firing it at a million percent, which is probably the idea that a lot of CrossFitters get is you got to go hard all the time or it's not really the case.   Mason: (11:40) Yeah man, you got to be kicking goals every single second of the day and achieving, otherwise there's no point unless you're just nailing your PB. How do you communicate that because I guess that's the essence of what you were talking about in the difference between a responsible coach that's actually teaching sustainable training. I imagine sustainable training comes into like, if you're going, from what I can tell, the idea of CrossFit is staying optimized athletically for the long term. We're talking about decades. So what are those key things that you're teaching or principles that you're teaching in the gym or for mindset to get people back in that frame?   James Newbury: (12:26) With my gym, so we recently just kind of had a bit of a restructure on how we like to sort of, I guess, program things. My gym is named Soul. And what we do there is we try and look at health in its entirety as much as possible. So looking at balance. We found that getting someone to come in after work after probably a busy, hectic, stressful day at work, and then putting them through a crazy, hectic, stressful class workout where they're lifting weights and running around and heightening them even more and then sending them on their way to go home and and hopefully they go home and have a really nutritious meal and stretch and fall asleep. Well, that's usually not the case.   James Newbury: (13:17) So, we identified that being an issue and we knew that every different person that came in probably needed something different to the next person. So, what we tried to do is figure out an array of classes that could cater for everyone on any particular day. So we run strength and conditioning classes, we also run stretch classes, we run a low impact, low intensity class. We do some bike classes as well where they don't have to lift weights, it's basically just biking. We also do some specific only weightlifting classes. So, people can make it a choice on what I want to train for the day instead of just coming in and always getting strength and conditioning, strength and conditioning, strength and conditioning every day.   James Newbury: (14:01) So, if someone comes in and not feeling up to doing strength and conditioning class, they can choose a stretch class instead and they can sit down for 60 minutes and just do a nice relaxed passive stretch that's going to help bring them back to a really nice relaxed, parasympathetic nervous system instead of heightening them even more after a heightening day, and then trying to just zone out and sleep because I know not everyone's going to go home and do breath work before they go to bed and down regulate before they try and sleep.   James Newbury: (14:32) It's really about trying to find balance and that's what we're doing with Soul as much as possible. We have some fantastic coaches there that love to program and love to program progression for people for longevity, rather than programming, trying to make everybody an elite athlete, which is, in my eyes, most of the people that come into the gym, they want to be able to function throughout their day really, really well. They want to be able to play with their kids, they want to be able to hike on the weekends, they want to be able to go wakeboarding behind a boat if they so choose to. It's just preparation for life. And if they do choose to go down the path where they want to compete and push themselves a little more, we can cater for that too.   James Newbury: (15:17) But to be honest, people either just want to do local competitions and have some fun with some friends and do it in a partnership or a team environments. So, we also cater for that too. So it's really just trying to be as wholesome as possible. And not only that but in terms of balanced health, we also looked at the mental side of things as well. So getting someone to come in and putting their headphones in for the whole session is not our idea of mental health. We think interaction and social settings are really good place that they can get a more wholesome health approach. So we created the coffee bar and smoothie bar so people can come and train with a group of friends and then hang out and stay and chat and be social for a period of time. And so instead of just coming into their 45 or 60 minute class and then getting on their way, they can come in, they can do the 60 minute class and they can hang out for 20, 25 minutes and just chew the fat for a while.   Mason: (16:18) That piece is one of the, you said about like getting functional so you can just play with your kids. That's sometimes the hardest thing when you're coming from a programmed young mindset about just fucking killing it physically all the time. And then still, like, of course, that's like functionally, I do want to be able to play with my kids, but it was just as a secondary adjunct. I've been using that as a primary focus. And my training, the holistic nature of my training has opened up big time. Once I get in, my crawling on the ground, when I was doing that to be functional, I just couldn't get the consistency. But thinking about crawling like a goanna after Aiya on the beach for 10 minutes, 15 minutes, I'm like, oh, now we're talking.   James Newbury: (17:22) It's so hard. If I was to go out and try and bear crawl up the street, give me 50 meters and you're already in a world of pain. It's functional. It does help you and it teaches you good movement patterns and gets you sweaty. It's good for the body, good for the soul. So I think that type of stuff is fantastic.   James Newbury: (17:43) And then your kids also, they're learning everything just through, they're just absorbing it all day long, they're just soaking it all up. And if they can see that you're being active and getting outside and finding sunshine and walking around barefoot, they'll do the same thing. It's good for them.   Mason: (18:01) You've got a real good ethos. I don't know whether I've just noticed a little bit more but on Instagram you've been, and maybe after.. I know we haven't told everyone that we were meant to talk like two weeks ago, three weeks ago. You happen to-   James Newbury: (18:15) I fell off my bike.   Mason: (18:16) You have a couple pf fractures in your spine and punctured your lung, just that little chestnut. I was just saying how I didn't really talk to everyone about the fact that you had, your fracture your spine and you puncture in your lung. I think that was like the day before we were meant to talk so your partner sent me a beautiful picture of you laid up with your neck brace on. And then saying, he's really sorry, he was going to jump on and still do the podcast, but I think he should have a little bit of a rest. I was like, man, you're a badass.   James Newbury: (18:55) I was like saying to Kayla, I was like, "Oh, no, I've got to get on this podcast with Mason. I've got to get on." And she's like, "You can't talk, you can't sit up, you're not allowed to do anything." I'm just like, "We'll figure it out." And she's like, "Maybe we'll just try and reschedule for next week or the week after." I'm so glad you could do that. That was great.   Mason: (19:13) Yeah, yeah, yeah. We can do that. You were on your bike? Were you mountain biking or off road?   James Newbury: (19:19) Yeah. So basically, I was mountain biking with three other friends, and we had three bikes and there was four of us. And basically, when we got to the bottom of the run, we would just swap someone out and then the next group of three would go up and come down and do a run, come back. Yeah, I was just coming down a run and I just took a corner just too fast, I just overshot the corner and lost my front wheel in some loose dirt. And there was just this medium-sized to small tree just with a thick stump on the bottom and I kind of just went over the handlebars and basically just kind of speared, javelin this tree with my head. And as I hit the tree, I kind of rolled my back into the tree into a branch. The branch kind of got me in the back a bit.   James Newbury: (20:12) I never lost consciousness or anything like that, I just kind of hit the deck and I was out of breath. I was like, oh, I've just winded myself pretty bad. One of my mates came around the corner after me and he was like, "Oh, no," I was like, "I'm good, I'm good, you just need to give me a minute, I just need to catch my breath." I was pretty out of breath, couldn't breathe. I ended up walking back to the car, once I got up eventually, I ended up walking back to the car and the guys were like, probably should take you to the hospital. It was about a maybe a 2k walk and then we sat in the emergency for about 90 minutes before they saw me.   James Newbury: (20:49) I ended up having a punctured lung, slightly collapsed, I had a minor pneumothorax. I broke the seventh and eighth rib, and then I had two spinal process fractures in T2, T3. So that kind of pulled me out of finishing off a competition I was doing at the time for CrossFit. And then I thought it was going to really impact, I've got an Ironman in a couple of weeks now which I'm going to compete in. So that's kind of where I was sort of at the time, like we didn't know the extent of the injuries, but they're just like you can't really do too much for four to six weeks. And I was just like, oh well, watch how fast I heal this. And yeah, so we've kind of just gone from there and that's basically when Kayla touched base and then you sent me some goodies to help me out healing up.   Mason: (21:38) Oh yeah, I'll always send you the goodies. I don't know if it was just because that injury was there but on your Instagram, I think you've always been bent this way, but you were talking about the natural healers, you were talking about getting barefoot and sunshine and hydration. So yeah, like obviously, we've been talking about those at the gym. Have you found yourself heightening, the time you're spending having conversations with people? Because your Instagram is pretty huge, you've got like a big following there and I imagine on the ground with the students as well.   James Newbury: (22:12) Yeah. Yeah. My idea of recovery may be somewhat different to I guess maybe mainstream. I really enjoy trying things regardless of whether people think they have merit or whether Western medicine thinks it's going to be a great thing to do or has no merit. I'm just like, well, it makes me feel really good so I'm going to keep doing it. Those things compiled with jumping in the float tank and getting outside and getting sunshine every day and getting barefoot on some grass or going down the beach and getting in the ocean and doing those types of things and doing breath work and meditation and getting cold and having cold showers. I think all those things really add up to better recovery and faster recovery. And I do try and promote that as much as possible through my socials where I can.   James Newbury: (23:11) I do a thing like I do every so often, I'll put up a post that's either a workout or work in. The work in is basically the balance part of the working out and trying to bring yourself back to parasympathetic because if we're always just in that fight or flight, I feel like you get burned out and I've been in there before, I've burned myself out a couple of times pretty bad and gets you to the point where you don't want to train, you don't want to work, you don't really want to do anything. And anything that makes you happy, you don't want to do anymore and it's just like, well, that's not fun.   James Newbury: (23:40) So how can I train really hard, get great results, but then also recover and not get to that point again. I've found by doing all these things and treating my body with fantastic food and making sure I do get out and get into nature as much as possible and becoming as centred as I can, that has really helped regardless of whether they do tests on whether earthing helps you, makes me feel amazing. I would recommend it to absolutely anybody.   James Newbury: (24:12) And to be honest, when I hurt my back and hurt my ribs, I was just like, I'm going to prove that all this stuff really, really works, and it doesn't come down to just already being somewhat fit. I think the food and then the protocols that I've followed have really helped me heal. I was pretty well, within two weeks after, I was like still doing like five hour triathlons after the break. So, that's good two weeks. And then I did a two and a half week checkup and all the bones were already healed.   James Newbury: (24:45) It was a pretty fast turnaround in terms of the healing process. I'm excited to kind of tell that story a little bit more because if I can do it, then everybody else could maybe take just one thing that they could do and add to their lifestyle to make them feel a little bit better and that's what it's all about.   Mason: (25:04) Yeah, man. I mean, grounding, there's that old, the Taoists, well actually, the Taoists would say, they'd watch the deer with the break, go and find the Eucommia Bark tree, that's why we send you the Eucommia Bark and the deer would be at the back of the Eucommia tree. And then it'd be that and water. Just basically like fast for a while but just sit on the earth and just get that negative electron, negative ion charge running through the body. It's like the ultimate antiinflammatory that allows the body to be inflamed where it needs to. And then you're soaking up the sun. It's one of the absolute trippiest thing that there's no sun therapy, Helio therapy in a hospital setting.   James Newbury: (25:47) It's crazy.   Mason: (25:48) It's crazy. I mean, in fact, we go, you've got a break, let's cover it up. Cast it up so that no sun whatsoever can get through there and you can't get any slight mobilisation. You can't get any Chi there. I get it, we're not talking about running off and being like an absolute anarchist and against any kind of modern medicine, but no inclusion of these things which as you kind of said and you're going to go focus on, I think you said, the six best doctors, you're going to focus on, your movement, your breath, your nutrition, the sun, connecting to the earth. These things which are just naturally going to heal us.   Mason: (26:28) It's cool because I'm sure you've seen, you can't take for granted that people know about this, these simple ideas. Maybe have bought into the cultural idea that you can really, they're fun fluffy conversations until shit hits the fan and no, you can't talk about sunlight, earthing, when in real injury circumstances, we need the institutions to heal you then. That's that fear there of going into it but that's when they're actually super relevant.   Mason: (26:56) And look at you, you're saying, you know what, I was kind of somewhat fit. I think in your bio, I don't know if it's up to date, currently 27 fittest in the world.   James Newbury: (27:08) Yeah. Yeah. I think it definitely does help for sure. But I also, I do really think that like, if all your cells are invigorated and they're in a space where they can heal you instead of trying to fight off everything else that you're trying to put into your body or that your body's absorbing and they have the ability to do pretty wonderful things, and if we can just allow them to do their job like, they'll be time efficient. It's just that I think they have to look at worst case scenario when they say, hey, you probably can't really do anything for six to eight weeks, they're usually talking about maybe someone who is hampering the process of healing because of potentially the way they eat or the lifestyle that they live.   James Newbury: (27:55) But I know for me, what I want to make me feel happy is I want to be able to, if I want to go on a snow trip and go snowboarding, I want to be able to just pick up and go. I don't want to have to be in a state where I have to prepare for that. Or if I want to go hike up to base camp, I don't want to have to spend the next two years preparing for that, like I know I'm good to go like whenever. I like always being in that point where I can just say I'm going to go kite surfing today or I'm going to go mountain biking or I'm going to go hiking or whatever it is, or surfing.   Mason: (28:28) Man, I love that, I really love that intention. I don't talk about that as much anymore with that general preparedness of just being able to pick up and go at it after life. Our focus here, like at SuperFeast, the focus is like, as we've grown is teaching people how preparedness is kind of on the other side of things as well. As you go along in life, you might get sick, someone close to you might get sick. People are going to die, you're going to lose money. Shit's going to hit the fan. And so there's that other side of it, which I think is nice that you bring up this be prepared to go out and just get after life and just have an absolute ball, because I'm with you on that, I just want to be like, Woody Harrelson says in that Zombie Land movie, he's like, "Does a lion stretch before it goes out?" Just like I'm ready.   Mason: (29:18) And then on the other side of it is that you're prepared for the hardships that life's going to throw at you and you're going to be able to cop that and the chin and learn from that as well and integrate with that.   Mason: (29:29) So, with your, recovery is obviously, your whole, again, in the bio, it's like the one thing you thought to have there as a quote is recover harder than you work out. All these things we're talking about, that's what's happening. That obviously comes to the intention of you were saying is coming at life from a parasympathetic place, which I think it definitely flies in the face of where the majority of the fitness industry is coming from. Even with long distance running, it's probably one of the most like, you know, it can be for most people just one of the most adrenalising things that they can do for their body.   Mason: (30:18) So, what other specific practices, mind shifts that you've had to have that allows you to come at this from a recovery perspective, parasympathetic perspective when you are dealing with some various serious competition, and you got a very competitive nature?   James Newbury: (30:42) I guess there's a time and a place where, I try and take everything as calm as I can and just try and be as relaxed as I can all the time. But there's a time and a place where I can jump into fight or flight where if I'm at competition because I love competing, I love getting out there and expressing fitness in a competition setting. I always have. I've got a brother who is only 11 months older than me so I've spent a lot of time just competing with him. So I just continued on just doing competition. And then over the years of just pushing and pushing and pushing and trying to make it to the top of the sport, basically, I found myself burning out a lot.   James Newbury: (31:31) And then I remember finishing a competition and just being like, I just don't want to train. I just feel just really wrecked and then I didn't end up training for quite some time. I took a few months just to not do too much and eventually found the fire again. It really pushed me into a position where it's like, okay, I really need to stop paying attention more to my recovery.   James Newbury: (31:55) I would, at the time, think I was eating really well and I thought, yeah, I'm doing recovery. I'm jumping in an ice bath from time to time and doing that style of thing. But then I started introducing things that would really help me just relax and become a little bit more centered and work on my mental game a little bit more, because everybody can train really hard but when it comes to recovery, I guess some people look at it as the boring stuff but I love it. Jumping in a float tank for three or four hours and just soaking up the magnesium is fantastic and just being with yourself and your mind and disconnecting from social media and unplugging from your phone and emails and things like that is a really good way just to get back to square one instead of being just on the go just like hustling all the time.   James Newbury: (32:46) I know people are just like, you got to hustle, got to hustle. But if you just don't take the time to really get centered and get good sleep and do all the things that our bodies are supposed to do, eventually, you'll get to a point where you hit a roadblock and you'll have to take a few months or a year off doing what you're doing because you're just so burnt out. I've been there, took a few months off, and it's like, well, training makes me feel good, recovery makes me feel even better.   James Newbury: (33:14) So how can I get these guys to work together and also still be really good at what I do. And you can, you totally can. You can do all these things and still be at the top of your sport, you don't need to just crush yourself into the ground every session and wreck your body along the way. And then go and compete one year at the top of the level and then just fly off the radar after that and never be seen again because you're so burnt out trying to get there. It's longevity. So it's just figuring out ways to increase longevity in whatever you do.   James Newbury: (33:49) I think the things that I've discovered and probably will continue to discover as I go on are going to help me more and more to do that. And if I can spread it around and help someone else do the same thing, that's what I'm all about. It's about the experience and how much I can help someone else find extra happiness or find a better way of living that's going to make them happy.   Mason: (34:11) Man, it's really exciting. I feel like it's a really exciting time to hear you're at that level of competition and you're someone which I really relate to. I love the aggro in me when it gets to, when I get into some hardcore competitive setting. I've been able to like go further and further and further into that aspect of myself with the comfort of knowing that I'm not going to be lost in it when I come outside of that appropriate setting.   Mason: (34:43) So, I love hearing, this is kind of like this is really weird because I feel I did burn myself out with the go. And you can subconsciously bring up, for me, bit of shame that I did that in pursuit of something which was in an isolated sense seemed superficial but isn't if it has its appropriate setting and it sits within its appropriate holistic culture. And then a bit fearful or judgmental towards myself. And it takes a while to come back out of the shell. It's a good thing I feel like I am getting in this conversation again, that real resolution with that part of myself because it's a shame to lose that. It's a joy to express yourself physically and it's a joy as well to have it be within like this harmonious system. Yeah, man, credit to you because I feel like, especially the Instagram version, the fitness world really needs to see that, and you're non stop with sharing stories and all that, I really enjoy it.   Mason: (35:49) But with the recovery, can you run us through little aspects, practices, even if they're principles of recovery and they're not like specifics that are like super lighting you up at the moment, sorry, that was a super hard word for me, lighting you up.   James Newbury: (36:07) That's cool. At the moment, like I've got some recovery things that I'd love to do, every day at the moment, I'm in my sauna. So, I get into an infrared sauna every day. I have a full spectrum sauna so I'm getting near emitted far infrared light. That's something that really invigorates me. I'm trying to do that each morning and then I do it after my training session. So, lots of benefits have been shown in some studies especially with heat shock protein release and wound healing which is why I've been getting in there sometimes twice a day just with my back and my ribs and my lungs.   Mason: (36:44) So good man. We are huge fans of saunas. We've got one here in our office as well. I just had one this morning too.   James Newbury: (36:50) It's the best. It's so good. And it's good because you can do a few things while you're in there too. You can train yourself to relax and be as parasympathetic as possible in a stressed environment. You can also do some breathing practices to help oxygenate the system while you're putting yourself under that heat stress. It also is good heat adaption if I'm going to compete in a setting that's hotter than where I am at the moment. So, I'd always prefer to train in a hotter environment than a cooler environment just for that fact.   James Newbury: (37:24) So that's another thing I really love about the sauna. I've also been doing post-sauna always a cold shower. And then usually after trainings also once I finish cold showers. So that's something else I've been really enjoying and it's a very easy thing to do is just jump in your shower, 60 seconds, only cold. And then try and do it without showing too much emotional stress about it. It's another really good tool just to help you train that brain a little bit more and jumping into a freezing cold shower. It's very invigorating. Like honestly, if you haven't tried it recently, just give it a go because you'll get out and you feel like you've just been reborn. It's the best.   Mason: (38:05) It's a good time to do it in summer when the pipes aren't freezing cold themselves. And so it's a good ease in. And then when winter comes around, keep it up.   James Newbury: (38:15) Yeah, exactly, keep it up because you do actually build resilience towards the cold over time. So, the more you do it, the less effects it actually gives you, the less stressful effects it actually gives you. So, that really helps. But it also has been shown to be really good hormone production and testosterone and things like that for both male and female. So, that's another really good thing especially if you're training and doing other bits and pieces or you're working really hard and stress levels are high, sometimes it can play a bit of a, take a bit of a toll on those. So yeah, cold showers have been amazing.   James Newbury: (38:46) Also sunlight, everyday sunlight as much as possible. Even if it's cloudy, get outside and expose as much skin to the sun as you can. Obviously don't go and get burnt and go roast yourself out in the sun. But getting some exposure to the sun every day. And usually around that 10AM is usually good, 10 to 11AM, I've been finding is ideal because you can also do it without sunglasses on and getting a little bit of sun into the eyes, which is also great as well. So, I think that has been really, really important. And also like just connecting as we said before, earthing grounding and getting down the beach and into the ocean and planting your feet on proper earth is a really good thing.   James Newbury: (39:28) I've found it's been really helpful in terms of pain with my back. The doctor is just like, what's your pain scale, I'm just like, I'm literally at zero. And this was like a week after the accident, it was like, I'm at a zero. If I do anything stupid like try and reverse parallel park my car and I have to twist around, yeah, that hurts. But in day to day activities, even after seven days, I was in like zero pain but I was walking around barefoot most of the time. So, that was a big thing.   James Newbury: (39:57) And then just quality water as well. We're in Adelaide so usually water quality isn't the greatest here anyway, but regardless of where I go, I always try and find if I can just local natural spring. So making sure I've got-   Mason: (40:13) You go out to the spring?   James Newbury: (40:16) Well I don't actually get to go out but we have a local spring just here. So, getting that local spring water is what I like to do and just try and make sure that it hasn't been sat in plastic and imported from millions of miles away and it's been treated and things like that. So getting quality water. I don't think I've had a glass of tap water in, I can't even think, maybe five or six years.   Mason: (40:42) Man, right on. I'm so happy you said that. We're big spring water drinkers as well. I was just thinking about it this morning, everyone is like, drink spring water as well, we have Neverfail. And I'm like anything associated with Coca Cola company, Pepsi company is not anywhere near the, it's not a spring water, it's going to be a well water. And nothing's going to beat that that transformational water that's levitating up out of the earth out of the spring. And it's still super cold and just charged far out.   James Newbury: (41:15) And passed over to rocks and you've got minerals. I think a lot of people are missing out on those minerals. I pretty much put-   Mason: (41:26) Where's the spring down there? Is it a secret spring?   James Newbury: (41:28) No, Lofty. Lofty. We've got Adelaide Hills. Have you been to Adelaide before?   Mason: (41:33) Yeah, but I only came to the city of Churches last year for like two talks really quick. I'm coming back next year. So I'm going to have to tune in and we'll go spring hunting.   James Newbury: (41:44) There's plenty of cool places up in the hills. Plenty of flowing water so no doubt we'll be able to find some, easy.   Mason: (41:51) Man, yeah, I'm with you. That as a healer, again, it's underrated. If you can get on some actually charged living spring water, which is, I know it's a challenge for a lot of people but don't give up. There's findaspring.com where you can go and get your springs, or just keep on tuning in with people in the local area to try and get that water that's the closest to, never been a tap water and as close to out of the ground on its own accord and then bang, over and into your life. Tough to do today.   James Newbury: (42:22) Makes you feel better, that's for sure. The instant that I have something, and I know like I'll go to the extent of even cooking, if I cook my rice, I'll cook it in the spring water too. So, the instant that I have something that has been cooked in just regular water, I'll instantly taste it. And I'll be like, I can taste it. It's not the best. That type of stuff goes a long way to integrating the body to heal as much as possible and to making yourself feel good.   James Newbury: (42:51) Floating is another big one for me. I floated since 2012. I've got my own float tank which is great at my gym, which I, pretty much we have probably five or six people every day using our float tank. And that was something that I really enjoyed trying to get out there for a lot of people to have a go and it's just a good way for people to disconnect yourself. People are so connected to work and phones and technology which is, this is a great place to just relieve yourself of that. Soaking in the magnesium, laying back, taking all the weight out of your joints or your connective tissues, and then just being in silence and darkness and no sensory input. You can take the time to breathe and to relax in there and you're never interrupted, completely silent. It's just fantastic.   James Newbury: (43:40) I've done a couple of overnight floats in there and they're absolutely amazing. So staying in for like seven, eight hours is absolutely brilliant. You come out feeling like a newborn baby.   James Newbury: (43:51) So yeah, so it was basically jumping into the float tank, laying in the magnesium, de-weighting all your joints and connective tissues. You can sit in there and visualize certain things. So l spent some time in there visualising my back healing, I spent some time visualising my lungs doing what they needed to do to come back together and the new thorax dissipating and picturing my ribs going back in place. I even do this for competition too all the time. I think the power of visualisation is so good because you can basically learn particular movement patterns just through visualising without putting your body under the stress at the same time. I'm not saying it's better or worse or anything like that, but it's just time to visualise that muscle up or time to visualise that triathlon you're about to do or visualise even having a good day or getting something done at work or nailing a presentation you're about to do or a talk you're about to do.   James Newbury: (44:50) You can go through it in a float tank, uninterrupted, no stimulus from anywhere else and you can go through it back to front. I usually jump in the float tank for about a week every day prior to a competition and I just go through the competition in my head for 30, 40 minutes and think about the events and think about how I'm going to feel and what it's going to smell like feel what type of heat we're going to get. And then how the workouts are going to affect me.   James Newbury: (45:17) And then by the time I get out there, I've already done it 100 times. So, I kind of know what to expect. Nothing is making me over exert my thought strategy. I already knew it was going to kind of hurt at this point and get really uncomfortable at this point. So I think that visualisation thing really does make particular tasks that we have to do every day just a little bit easier to overcome instead of putting a lot of pressure on yourself to now first time, you can do it 100 times in the float tank before you actually do it in real life.   Mason: (45:50) Yeah, nice one. What I like about float tanks and visualisation with them, it's like a lot of the time people think visualisation is just like speculation and fingers crossed, I'm going to make up the outcome. And then yeah, fingers crossed, that's the outcome that I get. But when you're training so much or when you're doing something like a float tank where you can actually get a perception of your body and the way your body works, when you're visualising, you're visualising through experience of I know how I work, I know how I train, I know my shoulder works in kind of like, you know, when I'm going for a muscle up. And you can almost problem solve in that scenario and see where your limits arethrough your experience of knowing yourself in the way you're training your body, you can feel exactly how you're going to overcome little hurdles.   James Newbury: (46:42) Exactly. I think that's the coolest thing about it. You're basically putting yourself in a scenario where you don't ever get to be in that type of situation where you're not contactable or you don't have anything that's actually stimulating your brain other than your own brain. It's pretty cool.   Mason: (47:08) So, to bring us home, I want to ask three kind of quick favorites. Like some favorite foods, or the way you're getting your food and your nutrition in, or whether it's a meal or an ingredient, just some favorites you're loving at the moment for your optimization. Any particular supplements that you really love. I know you like the ATP guys I haven't tried this stuff but I know they're pretty good. A lot of people put ATP and SuperFeast stuff together a lot.   James Newbury: (47:40) They go hand in hand really well.   Mason: (47:41) Good to know. I think everyone would probably be like keen to know which of the tonic herbs you're really enjoying long term.   James Newbury: (47:50) Yeah, totally. So firstly, my go to, I guess one of my favorite things is like, I kind of love making power bowl. And this power bowl is kind of like the old school avocado mousse, but I just chuck a whole bunch of extra stuff in there. With that, its basically avocado, banana, I put a little bit of dark organic maple in there. Always a little bit of Himalayan salt or sea salt. Then with that, I just add a ton of berries, sometimes some hemp seeds. Always put a little bit of collagen in there too, collagen protein. And then I add in some maca and cacao and that's pretty much me good to go. I've got a bit of a bit of fat, a bit of carb, a bit of protein and then a ton of antioxidants, vitamins and minerals. And then at the moment, since the back, I have been chucking Eucommia bark and I've also been chucking in the Deer Antler too.   Mason: (48:55) Yeah, sweet. They're good just regenerating herbs to have in the protocol anyway. Well, we might as well stay on the herbs. I know it's been like, I mean, in the beginning it was just kind of like, I think I just kind of sent you some, but, I'm sure you've kind of gained a little bit of relationship, but I think it's like the Cordyceps and the Astragalus, I think they're especially the two I keep on sending.   James Newbury: (49:20) Yes. The Cordyceps, I love the quadriceps. Well, I love the Astragalus too. But the Astragalus I guess is so good to me just in terms of really fortifying that immune system and something that I punish a lot of the time just with high volumes of training. If we're training five to six hours a day, five days a week, having the Astragalus just really fortifies the immune system, helps the blood. But the Cordyceps in particular I found to be really beneficial, especially for that high end aerobic work. So, helping the blood carry oxygen really well, helping the lungs, helping that transfer of oxygen through the lungs into the capillaries, the Cordyceps has been a really big bonus.   James Newbury: (50:11) And that's probably my favorite, to be honest, I would say the Cordyceps is something that I'll always keep as a staple, just in terms of aerobic function, like high end aerobic function. Especially now that I really love triathlon stuff at the moment, just having a blast doing that. So, that's been really good. But then I guess in terms of healing and joints and cartilage and connective tissue and bone fortification, that Eucommia bark and the antler has been fantastic. I'm really loving that too. If I had to pick one, try the Cordyceps.   Mason: (50:49) Because I'm going.. Because I've got a kelpie now as well, so I'm running on the beach. And you know what I'm doing as well, you reminded me of, I used to do a lot of barefoot extended running and trained myself to do so breathing through my nose the entire time. And so, I've been watching you. You had some people come in and train you, kind of retrain you, get your nose breathing rocking. And then you have the like, "I rocked that triathlon, I started breathing through the nose, this is me looking like super composed", and then you kind of like haggard it at the end breathing out of your mouth.   James Newbury: (51:24) With the nose breathing, it definitely helps keeping you relaxed and composed as much as possible. We had a CrossFit Games has been a few years ago, it was a marathon road and I did that all through the nose. It just kept me really relaxed, kept me in an aerobics state. Helped me uptake oxygen a little bit better. It got me through the 42k's on the rower without kind of burning out and cramping up and things like that. So, I think learning how to breathe through the nose is really good. When I first started I got to about 130 beats a minute, which isn't all that hard to me and it was really hard to continue through the noise but now I can take it up to like 90% of my heart rate all through the nose and still be quite composed.   Mason: (52:04) That's some serious stuff. The nose breathing, combine that with a bit of Cordyceps. And just on the Cordyceps because I've been really thinking about this, just how it can help with them in an athletic performance. And that helps as well. I like using Cordyceps in these instances and then in geriatrics, just like whenever you get like an elderly person like want one herb, I'm like Cordyceps, absolutely. It's like full Jing, Kidney, Adrenal optimisation and then full lung blood invigoration as well.   Mason: (52:34) But I've been trying for people like you were like playing around with them, I tried around the Cordyceps Militaris which is a different strain. It's quite effective but not as effective as the CS4, that's the one we have, a liquid ferment of the Cordyceps, a little bit of a strain and you probably know the quadriceps, the fourth strain that took off original caterpillar parasitic fungus. And they fermented that. But then, the other thing I've kind of realised because a bunch of people try out Cordyceps compared to others. And I was like, I know ours is a good strain and good practices, but I really kind of delved a little bit deeper into the broth we're using for the fermentation, and it's like a full secret traditional broth recipe that we're using.   Mason: (53:25) I remember tuning into that, but that just kind of clicked my remembrance of that's why it's like a real badass Cordyceps, it's a bit different to the other CS4's. So I'm all over that as well.   Mason: (53:38) And then finally, any other little just, good supplements that you're frothing on?   James Newbury: (53:44) I really like especially if people have a ton of gut issues or anything like that, I really love the ATP GutRight. That's just a bunch of, it's just plants, it's all real food. It's just basically blended up plants and barks and things like that that just create a nice friendly gut environment for your bacteria. They basically help keep the balance. Instead of just adding more and more and more probiotics which is kind of what you get from, like your prebiotics you get from food and it just helps create bacteria cultures in the gut. This trying to help level them out a little bit more.   James Newbury: (54:21) I guess in terms of like other little things that I think have really helped increase immunity and helps to get the most out of your food, the GutRight is something I would really have a crack at.   Mason: (54:34) I love it so much. Where can people get in touch with you? I definitely recommend your Instagram. But you got a website and all that stuff as well?   James Newbury: (54:44) So, probably the best place would, if they wanted to get in touch and have a chat, definitely through Instagram is completely fun. That would be probably the best place. I always check it and I get back to everyone that writes through me there. I do have a website but it's kind of like a programming website. I do little bits of working in practices and athletic training stuff. And that's on ultrainstinct.com.   Mason: (55:08) Ultra instinct?   James Newbury: (55:09) Ultrainstinctathlete.com. Yup.   Mason: (55:13) And this is James Newbury on Instagram?   James Newbury: (55:17) Yep.   Mason: (55:19) What about your gym? Is it just Soul 365 fitness?   James Newbury: (55:24) Yeah. So the website for the gym, we're in Adelaide, and it is soul365.com.au. So if you ever come past, we have a sauna, float tank and you can come work out and train and relax, have a coffee or have a smoothie.   Mason: (55:39) All right, that's cool. I'm always needing things to fall into place before I go on my next tour. I've got a new talk that I'm going to be doing. We'll slot that in, I'll leave a couple extra days so we can go get some spring water as well.   James Newbury: (55:53) So good.   Mason: (55:54) Cool. I'm going to come over sauna and the float and do all the things. Man, thanks so much for coming on and just good luck with everything as always. Seems like you're having fun, which is you don't need too much luck when you're having a ball doing it. You've got the triathlon coming up, and oh no, sorry, not triathlon, Ironman you said, right?   James Newbury: (56:14) Yep. Ironman, two weeks.   Mason: (56:16) Two weeks you got an Ironman. And any other, are you out of competition for this season?   James Newbury: (56:21) So then after that, we're going straight to Bali, we're doing a fasting retreat, seven days. So we'll do that. And then we get back into competition next year.   Mason: (56:30) Cool, man. Have fun fasting man, I hope to have a chat about that one aswell, that's a whole nother kettle of fish. Obviously, you're big on recovery. Naturally you're going to give yourself some time for your digestion your metabolism to chill out and for your body to go do some deep repairs.   James Newbury: (56:49) I know. I know. I can't wait. It's going to be epic.   Mason: (56:52) Enjoy, man.   James Newbury: (56:53) Thanks dude. Take it easy.

Essential is buzzword and a hot topic in our current quarantine society. We find ourselves continually defining and redefining what, is in fact, essential. However, I want to pose the question 'Is essential...really essential?' Because I've learned in the matter of a few shifts things I thought were absolutes paled in comparison to the things that actually are. But what about you? How do you define essential? Let's talk! Be sure to hit the links below so we can connect: https://jenniferbrianne.com/ Instagram: @briannebrand_ Twitter: @briannebrand --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/jenniferbrianne/message

Hi Everyone!  I hope you and your families are well.  You’re listening to the All Social Y’all Podcast Episode 22 and this is Part 1 of a 2 part series recorded in a live radio show called El Sassa, about How Businesses Will Change after Covid 19 Coronavirus.  Radio and podcast host Sassa and I discuss the current impacts of Coronavirus in our business communities, the emotional perspectives – like overwhelm and dealing with every day being ‘just weird’ in some ways, how the food industry is transforming, how the media is informing and influencing consumer’s decision making, the education system and learning disruption and what this will offer in the future….we talk about , remote or virtual experiences like the NFL Draft first time going Live with the draft virtually.  We discuss how Covid19 is driving innovation in a different way, plus more.    Carey Sperry: I'm excited to be here! Sassa: Great. Man, I'm actually excited to do this podcast with you. This is something we've been talking so much for the past maybe few weeks or days, right? Since COVID-19 started and we've talked about, "Hey, let's get together and do this and it feels good to work together in this and just kind of like talk with your listeners, my listeners and kind of share some of this business things that are happening with COVID-19. I know that your podcast, you kind of talked so much to the business people out there, correct? Carey Sperry: That's right. Yes. Small and midsize businesses, some large business owners and executives tune in as well. But we focus on digital, social and how you can best serve your customer through the customer experience through social and digital. Sassa: That's right. So Carey, tell us a little bit more. I mean, you're, you're located in Georgia, you said, right? In what city? Carey Sperry: Yes. We're just right outside Atlanta and we're in the greater Atlanta area out of Alpharetta, Georgia. Sassa: That's good. So, how has Georgia been handling this COVID-19 and I know you guys are going to be opening pretty soon here too, right? Carey Sperry: Great question. Yes. Well, first we've been handling it quite well. I've been pretty proud of our state and we had one city, I think it's Albany that had a really bad breakout that had the most deaths from a funeral that people attended. But that wasn't their fault because it was before they knew that there was COVID-19 and it was as prevalent as it was, here. But since then it's been... Since there's been awareness, there's been a lot of compliance. Nothing's perfect but even the young kids that normally would be outside at basketball courts in parks and things that... You know what I mean. High school kids that can drive and whatnot. Sassa: Yeah. Carey Sperry: They're even, I see them staying home and so we're supposed to open up Friday and Monday I think in a phase effort. The strategy, which seems a bit a little early to me, because we didn't really have time to like get ready so to speak. But we'll see how it goes and I get the logic behind it. Sassa: That's true. And Carey, here in Houston, I'm in Texas. For your listeners that do listen to your podcast, we are a Houston company, Texas [inaudible 00:02:35]. They say they do big everything in Texas, but right now we're feeling like everything's so small with COVID-19. Right? I was actually just telling you before we started this podcast I was driving by Twin Peaks, it's usually packed over lunch in the evenings and it's empty. Some places in Houston you feel like ghost towns. You're like, "Man, I remember when this used to be so crowded, so packed, so jamming. Now it's empty." Are you getting that over there as well in, in Georgia? Carey Sperry: Absolutely. Yes. We're blessed to be able to see, right? Because it's another sense that we have to absorb this experience and our eyes connect to our feelings and when we see things differently, when you're taking a walk outside and you normally see like 1000 cars go by in an hour's time, now you see 10 go by or something. That's just very weird mind body connection. But yeah, about, I don't know how many weeks ago now, it's kind of hard to keep track of time, although I am keeping a daily journal where I'm documenting my own perception of the COVI9-19 experience, hoping that one day my great grandchildren will read it. Sassa: Yeah. Carey Sperry: We're going to forget. Sassa: Let's hope that they don't go through this no more. Right? Let's hope that we can just tell them what it was, right? Carey Sperry: Totally. Oh my gosh. I wouldn't wish this on anyone and yet it's a global issue, which is another kind of thing to absorb. But I don't know how many weeks ago it was, but I remember some stores being open and being able to go in and seeing cars out in the parking lot and people going in and out of the stores. I'm not saying that it was the normal volume, it was definitely a lower volume. But then the day before Easter I went out to pick up a ham from Honey Baked Ham and all those stores were closed. There was no cars. I think one store was open and they were letting in 10 people at a time and you had to wait outside, taped sidewalk with tape to stand apart six feet and things just- Sassa: And they're not listening, right, Carey? I mean, I don't even know if I want to go to the grocery store as much no more because they just go by you. They cross you. I understand people's stress and I understand people are just trying to get in and out, but I think it's not even about them maybe not listening or not doing it. Maybe sometimes you just got so much in your mind, you just want to just go and come and you don't see the other person. I think we need to also take care of ourselves but we also need to take care of other people as well. Correct? Carey Sperry: Oh, totally. I'm wearing a mask when I go out, but like you, I'm wanting to go out. I don't want to go out, but if I have to, I will to get necessities or just food if I can't get a delivery for what we need. But that's been pretty good. But I put the mask on just out of respect for people that have compromised systems or older people. I've noticed that definitely not everyone here is wearing a mask, but probably maybe 60% it seems like are wearing the masks. I mean, I think a couple of things. When people aren't being aware or they're not abiding by the social distancing in public. Is one, they're either kind of checked out, their stressed, their mind isn't concentrating on that as what they're concentrating maybe doing what they're there to do. It's kind of an innocent thing but still they need to try to remember. Sassa: Yes. Carey Sperry: I think the other thing is unfortunately some people just aren't paying attention as much on a daily basis as would help. I think they just maybe are watching movies and I don't think watching the news all day long is healthy at all. I've limited myself to just staying in tune every day, but not watching hours upon hours of it. Sassa: It stresses you girl. Let me tell you, I did that at the beginning of this whole pandemic. It was stressful. I had to get the phone out of... I mean, the television out of me and the phone for a side because I was just watching news. If I didn't get on the computer, I got on the cell phone, I got on the television. It was just too much and it comes to a point where it also stresses you and you're like, "Oh my God, it's putting too much on me." Did you feel that? Carey Sperry: That's right. Oh, totally. I was doing the same thing at first, because it was just such a big change from normal life. Like you said, being a business owner, thinking about, "How am I going to take care of my family and what is this going to mean and how long is it going to be? What does it mean in my community and just the children having to be home for school." We just have one left at home now who is 17 so he's pretty independent, but he still has some needs that definitely, I worked about two hours with him yesterday on his goals and his grades. They only have like four weeks left of school now. So, it's just a lot. Sassa: Yeah. Texas. We're actually not going to have no more school for the rest of the year, they announced that. The governor said that all Texas schools will be closed. So you can just imagine how... I have one of my children who was graduating from high school this year. I'm also wondering how this is going to work with him and I'm going to work with the school on graduation and things like this. So I could just imagine how many parents are out there also stressing with things like this. But today, we need to just focus on staying safe. Sassa: That's what I told my son, worry about staying safe, healthy, "Don't worry about graduation right now. We'll figure that out." But I'm thinking they'll put something together, maybe in the summer. Hopefully they get something going. Even though... I don't even know how graduations are going to be no more, because Carey here in Texas, I don't know if in Georgia is the same, but I mean, I graduated with 800 to 1000 kids when I graduated. So my son's probably going to graduate with even more, probably 1500 more. How are you going to do it? That's my question, right? Me and my mom- Carey Sperry: I believe... Oh sorry. Sassa: No, no. Sorry. I was going to tell you, my mom, my father, my brothers, myself, his mom, my younger son, I mean we all want to go to the graduation and see my son graduate. Maybe it's hundreds of other families who want to be at the same place. So that's going to change a bit, right? Carey Sperry: Yes. I believe, I'm not 100% but I believe our high school where our son attends is doing a virtual, they call it very special virtual experience for the ceremony for graduation. Sassa: Wow. Carey Sperry: Like I said, I'm not 100% because my son is in senior, but I believe that's what I saw, which reminds me tomorrow night, which is Thursday, is the NFL draft and for the first time in history they're doing it remotely. Sassa: That's right. Carey Sperry: So I'm going to tune in because I'm just interested in how that's going to work. My son and I were talking about it the other day and I was saying, "You know what, I think is going to kind of feel like a news program when you're watching the news and then they bring in a weather caster or guest..."- Sassa: And the sport. Yeah. Carey Sperry: But the players will be at their homes and in front of their computer. Sassa: I mean, Carey, look at what ESPN did. I mean, they don't have sports. So they put the Michael Jordan 10 episodes, which I watched it and it kind of brought me back to my time when I grew up watching Michael. I'm from the '90s and '80s, so I saw that and everything I was watching just made me forget COVI9-19 and started thinking, "Man, I remember when I was listening to the song. I remember when that happened. I remember this." So it brought something good. I think that's what sports probably are going to start going into because I mean, we can't be in crowds and I just can't wait to go see a sports event and see how many people are going to wear masks because it's going to be so many people. Right? Carey Sperry: Yes. I mean, I don't even know if there's going to be contact sports with audiences in the hall. I hope there will be, but they said today that they're the outbreak in the winter, the CDC came out and said today that the outbreak in the winter might be worse than what we're experiencing now. Sassa: Yes. Carey Sperry: I can't even imagine, but we just have to take it a day at a time. That's part of the acceptance part of this, I think. Because, I mean, I don't know what your perspective is Sassa about Americans, but anyone that lives here, it's such kind of high intensity pace that we have. In Europe, they take a couple hours in the afternoon, businesses shutdown for an hour or two to- Sassa: Yes. My country, they do it too, they close. I'm like, "Mom, why are people close here to 2:00." "Oh, they're in their lunch break." I'm like, "Can they just open?" She goes, "No, they said once it hits 11:59 they're telling you, you need to leave because we're taking our lunch." Two hours, they close. Why do they do this? And they're gone at 3:34 o'clock. They don't work an hour or a minute afterwards. I understand them because I mean, they don't get paid as much as we do here in America, but they're just ready to go home. I think we need to start looking at doing things like that more. I personally as a business owner myself, Carey, I actually am in the process of doing a transition of my company, my office, my studio at home. Sassa: I have a house where I have enough space to build a room and maybe another suite there. So I'm considering doing that. I mean, yes it's going to save me some money, but working at home these last few days has also made me restructure some things of my business and think differently, but also in the way where I'm thinking like, "Man, if I have to start all over, because that's what we want to talk more today. I'm pretty much starting all over as of now." My company went in marketing and advertisement, 70 to 80% of my clients cancel my contracts because they can't afford them right now. They don't need the marketing because they don't have their business open. I feel we all need marketing. I feel we all need to continue doing this. But your average business owner, they got to survive. They got to have family, they got to pay other bills than for me to do marketing and sponsorships. That hit me hard about 80%. Now, you can imagine, and I'm probably not the only one in this, I can tell you that right now. Carey Sperry: No. You're absolutely not. Not alone. Sassa: How am I going to start? I want you to also share with your audience and my audience and I want you to share with me as a friend, how are you planning on restarting if you're doing a business or what have you heard from friends? Because, what I did this last few weeks, it's just continue brainstorming, thinking, "What kind of business can I open now? I mean, what can I do now? Do I need to create another app that does this, does that? Do I need to put a little bit of money here more? Since I'm pretty much going to restart all over." Sassa: I might just do something new. It's kind of a new life, a new change. Because we were talking earlier, remember when I told you girl? Two or three months we've been with no work, it's going to take me another two or three months to kind of get back on my feet. By then winter comes. Guess what girl, boom! It hit me again because like you said, CDC said it might come stronger. So I feel from here to December, I'm pretty much... It's all going to be a loss for me. What do you think about that friend? Carey Sperry: Oh, I totally understand. I have clients that are going through the same thing very strongly and with the compound effect. It's what you're talking about. I admire you and applaud you for thinking ahead like that because if you just get paralyzed in your mind and in your attitude and say, "I'm just so overwhelmed, I don't know what to do, my business is losing. So I'm just gonna wait, I'm just not going to... I don't know what to do and I can't ask for help because I'm embarrassed or I don't know who to ask." Or all these things. I mean for my business personally, it absolutely hurt. The new business prospects that I was working with decided to hold off, because... They happened to be brick and mortar that were touching people, like an eyelash extension company and another was a computer security that had to do with face-to-face, like someone actually looking at the computer. Carey Sperry: So, I of course 150% understand their decision even though I encourage them to brand during COVID so that then when the economy did open back up and they were able to do business again, like Georgia and Texas is opening up now, that then they could convert faster to appointments. If they did the branding online upfront and then people are like, "When it opens up, I'm going there." I understand the decision either way. As far as my business with... I started pivoting back in 2019 where I wanted to become a podcaster. I launched the podcast in November, of 2019. I'm so thankful I did that because now I have had a studio at home this whole time and now, I'm just continuing that and I feel like podcasts are just right on the bottom. If you picture yourself on a roller coaster and you go down the big hill, I don't ride roller coasters myself, but- Sassa: It's been a while since I ride one too, so don't feel bad girl. Since I rode. Carey Sperry: Then you start to go back up that next incline. That's where we are with podcasts as far as saturation. People think that YouTube is completely saturated. It is not, it is not saturated all the experts in that space say so. So I became last year a YouTube channel manager and I'm working on a channel with my daughter. It's called conservation Schick. And she launched the day before Easter on April 11th. My son wants to start his own channel and as I'm actually doing this myself, I'm also helping businesses with that as well with. So that's something that businesses can do, is reach audiences. Now as far as conversion to payment and a product that varies business-to-business- Sassa: Yes. You're right. Carey Sperry: I think one thing that is going to happen with this new way of life is education is absolutely, I believe going to transform to more online, more digital. All these teachers now are learning how to do it and the ones that like it are going to want to continue to somehow offer that in school. They're going to find, "Oh my gosh, people want to learn at home." But with that, so do business people. Business people want to learn from other business people and consumers want to learn from home. Sassa: That's right. Carey Sperry: So courses are a huge thing. I haven't- Sassa: And you're right about that because for example, restaurants that didn't have an app, they didn't think digital was the key. They didn't think internet was... If you weren't in this platforms before let's say January, 2018 you were already way Flintstone era, old already. Because this is where you got hit the most because you weren't on these digital platforms, these online services, all these apps and things like that. Now they are seeing, "Man, I should have had my one app. I should have had this. I should have had that, because maybe my business would have strived during that time and now it got hit harder because I didn't think that was coming anytime." Sassa: It took a COVID-19 for them to see this, in a different way because now they're going to have to integrate whether they wanted or not digital stuff into the platform. I think that's one of the things that COVID-19 will change on some of these restaurants now. Another thing that they said here in Texas, check this out. They're trying to open the economy, right? To the To Go, the retail To Go. One store manager, some of the challenges he's facing. I don't want to face financial ruins yet also, I don't want to get sick because we're still in the early stages. Right, Carey? Carey Sperry: Yeah. Too early. Sassa: How is retail going to work now to go, remember... I mean, you as a woman, you got to go out there, maybe try the dress or tr the shoes. I understand online was getting big and it was popping in is still going to continue, but a friend of mine told me last night, "I still like going to the mall and I still like going into different stores and trying this. I spent more money going in the mall than online shopping." So I think that's going to impact a lot of many places in a lot of businesses. So a lot of these mom and pop shop stores, like you were saying, the eyelashes and things, man, especially hair salons Carey, how do you think hair salons and eyelashes and all these spas are going to work now? Because number one thing, they got to touch the person. Right? Carey Sperry: I know. I was thinking about that yesterday because that's one of the things that is opening up in phase one, is hair salons and nail salons and I'm wondering- Sassa: How? How is that going to happen, girl? Carey Sperry: Yeah, you're actually touching people. But I think they're going to wear gloves. And really, I mean, since consumers aren't required to wear the mask, I feel like they should be, if they want to go get their nails or hair done because all it takes is one cough while maybe the hairdresser's trying to trim your bangs and that's it. Sassa: I didn't tell my hairdresser, "Oh maybe I was sick, just a few days ago." Or, guess what? I don't even know if I'm sick because remember you might have it and not even start showing the symptoms till later on. So how is this going to work? Especially how do you think that's going to evolve in this industry, in the hair salon. I mean, I can give you my ideas, but I don't know if it's going to happen that way. But you tell me, you as a woman, how do you think that's going to change? Because I know those businesses, they have been hit hard. Carey Sperry: Big time and my hair looks horrible. Because I've been trying to do it myself and it is not working very well. Sassa: Don't worry. I used to cut hair when I was in high school. So I did my friends at high school and I used to do my taper and things. So I kind of do it on my own with a mirror but when I do need help, I kind of call my friends, "Hey, can you come over and kind of fix a little bit?" But yeah. We were talking and let me tell you what I think. Basically I told her, "You might have to wear protection." She's like, "Right?" It's going to be difficult. You're right. Maybe use a mask because she has to use a mask. I said, "What about gloves?" She goes, "I can't cut her hair with gloves. It's uncomfortable." So you tell me, Carrie, I mean, you as a woman, would you want to sit there and see that the hairstylist during this COVID-19 phase one, she's not protected and you're like, "Man." Carey Sperry: well, I love being a woman and I love the differences between men and women. I support all people's choices with gender identity and all that. Personally, I love being a woman, but I am different in that way, that I call the mall the dungeon. Sassa: Okay. Carey Sperry: I do not like going to the mall, but I love those outdoor malls. We have one here. Anyone in the greater Atlanta area will know. It's called Avalon. We live like a mile from there. It's just beautiful. I love to stroll around the stores outside there. You can carry a drink, if it's an evening. Sassa: Oh, okay. It's good. Carey Sperry: It's so nice and I enjoy shopping like that, but I feel stressed out when I shop. Because I have so many criteria and so many just... Yeah, I have so much criteria, I have too much criteria. So it takes me a while, but it's almost as hard online. But I am a huge, like I said before, well, first of all I love to learn and I love to teach and share with people knowledge, resources. I think that's a lot of what podcasts and YouTube are all about. And so what I think is going to happen is these beauty YouTubers and hair specialists YouTubers, I think more of those are going to evolve and there's going to be some kind of a blend between more that you can do for yourself at home really well. That's going to explode the product offerings and then I think more studios are going to start opening up in hairdressers homes. I know a couple. One was doing it before and one is starting to open her own now. Carey Sperry: I think there's going to be more of that, which just means more control over the traffic. If you go to a hairdresser or nail salon that's in the home, they can space out, they can clean, plenty ample time to clean. I'm not saying that the brick and mortar traditional ones aren't going to survive anymore. I think those will still be around too. But I think there'll be this new evolution of- Sassa: Evolution. Carey Sperry: Doing more for yourself at home and more and then- Sassa: And they've got to be more cleaner. Right, Carey? They've got to be... I know a lot of times, it's so busy one after another, one after another, but they have to be more cautious and more cleaner. They have to kind of be more of a show the client, "Look, I just cleaned everything so we can get started." So you as a customer will make yourself feel more comfortable because you feel like, "Okay, a little bit more cleaner. It kind of gives me a little bit more of a trust to get my hair done or things like that." Right? Carey Sperry: Yeah. You know the first time you went out with COVID-19 and you saw people actually wearing the masks for the first time and how weird that felt? Now when we go out and we see the mask, it feels a little less weird and it feels a little more normal. So I think as time goes on and we have these protective measures, whatever those may be in the future, that we're going to adapt and we're going to get more used to it. I think that what looks like... Remember when you were a teenager in your 20s and you kind of tried to picture what it would be like 20 years from now and you had a little bit of an image? Sassa: Yes. Carey Sperry: It's pretty different than it was. I mean, they're making cars now that can drive themselves and they're making flying cars and stuff are even happening. And so our kids are going to be ordering groceries almost 100% if not 100% from Alexa and audio devices. They're not writing down a list and actually going there. They're going to be like, "What? You used to do that? Are you crazy." Sassa: "That's old school, right? Yeah. That's old school. I even think a lot of things change. Like you just said, they're going to be ordering more if they weren't ordering already. It's even going to get bigger and bigger and bigger, more and more. Correct? But grocery stores, for example, they're going to have to be competing also with restaurants. So here in Texas, let me tell you what, some of these restaurants have been known to survive. They have what's called the restaurant To Go. You just coming pick up and go or order To Go. But they're also starting to sell like market, groceries. Okay. Fruits, vegetables, meat of the same stuff that they used to cook. Sassa: They're selling it to them like, "Hey, we got groceries if you need some. You need some broccolis, you need some tomatoes, you need some steaks, you need some chicken, you need fish. We have it, so we can sell it to you." They're doing that transition from the restaurant. They're called restaurant grocery stores now. So it's kind of like they can't survive just only on a to go right now. So they have to put in all these little groceries in there. So grocery stores- Carey Sperry: Interesting. Sassa: Yes. So grocery stores are now competing with the restaurants in that area too. Because well, guess what? A lot of grocery stores apps are so loaded that their delivery takes about two or three weeks before it gets delivered to you and you're like, "I don't have no food. I need to eat." So they might be going to this restaurant and maybe they have the groceries that they needed so, "Let me get them, let me go." They're even selling paper toilet in there and paper towels in those little restaurants, can you believe it? Carey Sperry: Yeah. Whatever they can do to help people. Sassa: Exactly. And also generate an income because they lost so much, they lost everything. There's a lot of folks like myself who've lost pretty much everything who are restarting. These brick and mortar restaurant chains or restaurants are paying 25,000, 10,000, 8,000 a month on rent. It's a lot of money for that and put a plus the expenses, the employees, all the other. I mean, one of them sent me... It actually took him about 30 to 40,000 to generate every month to keep this restaurant going in and I'm like, "Wow, that's a hit." You know what I mean? Sassa: They have to sell the things. So, that's one of the areas where evolution of restaurants are going to be. I want to ask you, maybe Uber and taxis, I mean a lot of people might not want to go ahead and go on a cab no more, because... I mean, do you think this is going to probably have the chance where self-driving cars, like you say, maybe come in and maybe something of the future? What do you think? Carey Sperry: Sure. Well, I think that Uber and Lyft have such a strong hold on the convenience, a need that consumers have. Consumers want, they want it to be easy, they want it to meet their needs and they want it to be a little bit fun, easily. And so the Uber and Lyft are great because it's easy. It may not be fun, but you know how sometimes in the app it asks, "Did you enjoy the conversation with your driver?" So I think that's kind of tip tapping into the fun aspect of it, because that's what creates loyalty. So I think it has such a strong hold on our culture that, that's not going to go away. Probably what will happen is that there will be some maybe questions that you have to verify in the app before you booked the call. Just for legal... Not the call but the ride, just for maybe legal reasons. Carey Sperry: Then there'll be probably made plastic barrier between the driver and the back seat and maybe even drivers will be required to have perhaps larger cars if they want to be a driver. I don't know, but that's kind of what I see. But I don't see that going away. I just think it has to... People love it too much and with drunk driving, people can now opt to have fun, go out, have a few drinks and then not have to drive.  

I walked into the morning air at 5:30 am and literally heard four owls tossing vocals back and forth through the forest. Loud, robust, vibrant and message making. Because I've studied animal spirituality for decades I did take a moment to sit and listen. To become part of the circle of conversation. The owls visit means conserve your energy until the times right. Be observant of your surroundings. Owls normally sit in silence. Remove yourself from the noise. Remember owls can see through darkness. Heavy heavy right? Our days have been overtaken by something we can't see nor can our bank accounts predict. Uncertainty is generating a new wave of anxiety to which we are seeing at our state capitols. Exercising that voice is what we've always done. Until election day or the moment Johnny's school is holding a fund raiser and they need some funding to buy books or sports equipment. Then that voice tends to lean in an opposite direction. First... I grasp the get back to work drive. I want this nation to be stronger than what it was in January and February 2020. My only question is based on where have these protesters been for the other problems we've endured as people? I'm not challenging anyone to do anything but be themselves beyond this moment of speaking out and vocalizing freely. On this podcast we talk about the message of the owl. Mainly because its Earth Day. What? Yeah people used to protest for that too. But found reason to continue ripping down the trees and planting taller buildings and homes too large for the human to use. A couple of days ago a friend sent me a note expressing his love for the planet. He felt that maybe all of this is nothing more than the earth grabbing us by the nap of the neck and saying, "Ironman is a false idol and so is Tom Brady. Give me ten minutes of rest and we can get you back on the road." But no! We've chosen to fight the invisible beast. To take in six weeks of uncertainty and then shout out, "We're done!" What we need is unity. Right now we've got nothing more than choices to go in every direction beyond what we can control. If this didn't work yesterday or the day before we're going to try this then that oh wait how about this? The planet needs a rest. It tried to bring you onboard but oh well. Guess its back to what we truly know. Get up. Go to work. Bitch about our jobs. Hate the boss. Go home and complain about nothing being on television. Only to get up. Go to work. This isn't a new normal. Its a new texture that should include your voice being heard at work. Build your new tomorrow by physically beginning a process of participating with progress. Lets get back to work but lets do it in a way that makes us more than paycheck collectors. You know what unemployment feels like now. Push beyond it.

I walked into the morning air at 5:30 am and literally heard four owls tossing vocals back and forth through the forest. Loud, robust, vibrant and message making. Because I've studied animal spirituality for decades I did take a moment to sit and listen. To become part of the circle of conversation. The owls visit means conserve your energy until the times right. Be observant of your surroundings. Owls normally sit in silence. Remove yourself from the noise. Remember owls can see through darkness. Heavy heavy right? Our days have been overtaken by something we can't see nor can our bank accounts predict. Uncertainty is generating a new wave of anxiety to which we are seeing at our state capitols. Exercising that voice is what we've always done. Until election day or the moment Johnny's school is holding a fund raiser and they need some funding to buy books or sports equipment. Then that voice tends to lean in an opposite direction. First... I grasp the get back to work drive. I want this nation to be stronger than what it was in January and February 2020. My only question is based on where have these protesters been for the other problems we've endured as people? I'm not challenging anyone to do anything but be themselves beyond this moment of speaking out and vocalizing freely. On this podcast we talk about the message of the owl. Mainly because its Earth Day. What? Yeah people used to protest for that too. But found reason to continue ripping down the trees and planting taller buildings and homes too large for the human to use. A couple of days ago a friend sent me a note expressing his love for the planet. He felt that maybe all of this is nothing more than the earth grabbing us by the nap of the neck and saying, "Ironman is a false idol and so is Tom Brady. Give me ten minutes of rest and we can get you back on the road." But no! We've chosen to fight the invisible beast. To take in six weeks of uncertainty and then shout out, "We're done!" What we need is unity. Right now we've got nothing more than choices to go in every direction beyond what we can control. If this didn't work yesterday or the day before we're going to try this then that oh wait how about this? The planet needs a rest. It tried to bring you onboard but oh well. Guess its back to what we truly know. Get up. Go to work. Bitch about our jobs. Hate the boss. Go home and complain about nothing being on television. Only to get up. Go to work. This isn't a new normal. Its a new texture that should include your voice being heard at work. Build your new tomorrow by physically beginning a process of participating with progress. Lets get back to work but lets do it in a way that makes us more than paycheck collectors. You know what unemployment feels like now. Push beyond it.

Creating an optimized sales funnel = survival for your small business. It breaks my heart seeing so many small businesses closing their doors or laying off employees because of the Covid19 pandemic.  This is why in this week's podcast episode I am sharing the power that a simple sales funnel can have to help you not only overcome unforeseen obstacles in your business now but also in the future.  There are 9 things to consider when setting up a sales funnel that works, in this week's episode I dive into each one. A few weeks ago, I got chosen as a coach for the 1st StoryBrand Livestream event . . . Donald Miller, the creator, and author of StoryBrand opened a session by saying sales funnels = survival. This is why I am passionate about sharing with you the lessons, observations and what works in this week's episode. I want you thriving, not just surviving.  So let's dive in! 1 - Create a strategy. Now let's be clear, strategy is a big word for plan. Just like you wouldn't hike Mount Kilimanjaro without a plan and the right equipment, you don't want to jump into marketing with no plan. This eats up your time, energy and money and in the end, you have no idea what's working and what's not. (more on how to fix that later) Throwing out marketing because you had the last minute idea will lead to frustration, overwhelm and ultimately you giving up on marketing altogether. How do I know? (raising hand) Because I've been there. I get it! So figure out a plan and for some tips, tune into this week's episode here. 2 - Solve a problem. I see SO many examples of people throwing together a business because they love to do something. For example, opening up a pottery shop because they love to make pottery. That's all fine and good, but if you don't have an audience who wants to paint pottery and will come and pay to do so, you won't make it in business very long. (Hence the 85%+ failure rate of so many small businesses.) In episode 85 I give you three reasons that solving a problem will help you thrive as a small business.  As well as three reasons not solving a problem will not only keep you from growing an audience but will have them looking elsewhere to do business. Be sure to head on over and give it a listen. 3 - Don't ghost your audience. The fastest way to lose and disappoint your audience is by sending them one email and then disappear.  The goal of a sales funnel is to attract and connect (nurture) with your audience so much that they can't wait to buy from you. When you disappear and then reappear after six months, they don't remember who you are, let alone what you do and then the big unsubscribe surge happens.   Don't treat your audience like a transaction, treat them like people, because they ARE people. This is the FASTEST way to grow engaged fans and followers. 4 - Track what you are doing. This is the #1 thing that nearly every business owner struggles with. If you are investing in marketing, time or money, track it. Because if you don't have a way to track whether or not your emails are being opened, a coupon code is being used by whom, a purchase was made, then you will NEVER know which piece of your marketing is working. The good news, it doesn't have to be that hard to track your marketing efforts. Give this week's episode a listen for a ton of ideas on how to track what you are doing so that you know whether or not to keep doing it or let it go. Because there is NO sense in continuing to invest in marketing that isn't growing your audience or bringing you customers. 5- Get focused. When you start throwing marketing together and slinging posts up on Instagram or going live on Facebook without a strategy or funnel you look unfocused. Your audience doesn't know what you want them to do and you come across as scattered.  Giving you nearly zero possibility of gaining traction with your audience or moving them toward the end goal of purchasing from you. Clarity = cash. When you are clear your audience will follow the breadcrumbs of your sales funnel. (need some clarity on the breadcrumb analogy, listen in I explain it in depth). The next cash killer is lack of consistency.  If I could give you only two pieces of marketing advice they would be #1 clarity and #2 consistency. When you show up, your audience pays attention (even if they are just lurking). When you disappear and then reappear people have stopped paying attention. It can be hard to be consistent without a plan (read strategy) and easy to lose track of what you're working toward. So in order to be clear and consistent, create a plan and then follow it. 6- A free download is NOT a sales funnel. Somewhere along the way, marketers sold the idea that If you had a free download that the sales would come pouring in. Like there were some magical funnel fairy that would sprinkle new customers into your world just because you put that new download out onto the interwebs. Unfortunately, you've been lied to. If you don't have a connection between your download, you and your products and services, you will be waiting A LONG time for your cash register to ring. So ensure that you have a plan that includes that new freebie you are proud of that leads your people to where you want them to go next. Ending of course with them either purchasing or moving out of the funnel. (the latter is ok as well because when they leave they make room for someone else.) 7- Don't try to sell too soon. We have all had or heard about the experience of the used car salesman stalking you as soon as you drive into the parking lot. It feels icky. But, have you thought about how your audience could be living that same experience going through your marketing system? When we provide something of value to our audience free of charge and then try to sell them into something quickly - like within the same transaction or the next email, we haven't earned the right to have their business yet. Meaning we are being slimy even if we don't mean to be. It's important to take into consideration your customer experience and also how long your sales funnel (warm-up) should be. Typically lower-priced products have a shorter sales funnel. But if you are going from a free video series into a $2000 course with no one buying - you're asking too much too soon! This is all determined by knowing your audience and your product suite. 8- Don't forget to sell. The opposite scenario from the above is those who give everything away for free and never present an offer. Or, they make it impossible for their customers to know how to buy from them. (Guilty as charged - but I'm getting better!) Giving away everything for free is not only detrimental to paying your bills, but it is also a sure way that you are robbing your audience from results.  They don't have any skin in the game when they don't invest. It's an energetic transaction to exchange money. They are invested both monetarily and emotionally when they pay you money just as you are more invested because they have paid you than you would be if you were helping them for free.  Sell your stuff, stand up confidently in what you can do and change the lives of those that are waiting on you to do so. In the meantime, build a sales funnel so that you have a plan when you start to falter. 9- Build your sales funnel first. Before you start that YouTube channel, have the Facebook Live, build your audience, invest in a marketing agency or spend tons of time and energy figuring out the best way to grow an Instagram following - figure out where you want them to ultimately end up.  What will they buy? Why will they buy it? And how can you make their journey to get there so easy that they can't think of saying anything besides YES YES YES all along their journey to get there? When you start with the funnel, it becomes easy to know how to promote, where to promote and what your next steps are. So start with your endpoint and work backward. There you have it, 9 specific things you need to build an optimized sales funnel that works.  Sales funnels assure success even in times of uncertainty and crisis.  There are definitely specific components in your funnel that you can be and should be building right now. Which will you be focusing on next?  Head on over to the Facebook Group and tell us what piece of this episode resonated most with you. Listen to the entire episode here:

Welcome to my video/podcast, everyone! In this podcast, I want to review TOEIC photographs for you. Because I've done this before at some point, you guys may have seen this before on my YouTube channel (if you follow me), but on my Facebook page and podcast, this is the first time I've done this. So, if you have any questions about services, coaching or anything in general, you can reach out to me very easily in the links down below!Premium Business English Podcast: https://www.mocha.fm/creator/thearseniobuckshowPronunciation Course Phase III: https://www.udemy.com/share/102DYQ/Pronunciation Course Phase II: https://www.udemy.com/share/102wQS/Pronunciation Course Phase 1: https://www.udemy.com/course/arsenios-american-esl-pronunciation-phase-1/?referralCode=8C3941AAFB58102377C4Book A Call With Me: https://calendly.com/arseniobuck/15minPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/arseniosesllearningPodcast on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7hdzplWx6xB8mhwDJYiP6fPodcast on ListenNote: https://www.listennotes.com/c/778cf3cfd2564ba5b01f693bfebc96de/arsenio-s-esl-podcast/Podcast on CastBox: https://castbox.fm/channel/Arsenio's-ESL-Podcast-id1251433?country=usFacebook: https://www.facebook.com/Arseniobuck/?ref=bookmarksYoutube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIzp4EdbJVMhhSnq_0u4ntAWebsite: https://thearseniobuckshow.com/Q & A: ArsenioBuck@icloud.comLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arsenio-buck-9692a6119/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thearseniobuckshow/?hl=enBuzz sprout: https://www.buzzsprout.com/165390Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/arseniosesllearning)

One of the best use cases for XR technologies is training and enterprise solutions, as long-time listeners know. Today’s guests, Jamie Fleming and Bharat Ahluwalia from Altoura, pop by to explain how they’re optimizing workplace productivity. Alan: Hey, everyone. Alan Smithson here, with the XR for Business podcast. Today, we're speaking with Bharat Ahluwalia and Jamie Fleming from Altoura about augmenting enterprise productivity for frontline workers using spatial technologies. All that and more coming up next on the XR for Business podcast. Jamie and Bharat, welcome to the show, my friends. Jamie: Hey, thanks, Alan. Super happy to be here. Alan: I'm really excited. So, Bharat, I know offline you were just-- you were mentioning that you were part of the original Hololens team. So I know how you got started in this. Jamie, you've been building experiences for 15 years in technology. So maybe just give us a bit of your background and we'll go from there. Jamie: Sure, yeah. For starters, this is Jamie. So I actually started out in architecture. I have a masters of architecture, and worked as an architect for a number of years. And that's really where I was given an introduction to 3D modeling and building out immersive experiences in the day-to-day practice of design and got the spark of an idea of, hey, I could create a company where we really just focused on creating experiences, and making them more and more interactive that helped -- in the early years, particularly -- help designers understand what their designs were. And over the years, that has just become more and more sophisticated and we've gotten deeper, deeper into the software side of things. Now we really have a lot of interesting ways that we can leverage these digital twins to help augment enterprise productivity. Bharat: And this is Bharat here. I got started in this space when I joined the Hololens team. It was an interesting experience. The project was top secret, as you know, and I wasn't even told what I would be working on until I agreed to sign the offer letter. But I knew a couple of key people then said, "OK, these guys get involved and it will be an awesome product." And it was. The first time I saw the vision video and the vision of the device, it was, wow. That's what I want to work on. So I worked on it for a few years, shipped the V1 of the device and was so in love with this technology, that I decided to leave the company and build experiences on top of the device and the platform that I was part of. I did a small startup that led to being acquired by Studio 216, which is now named Altoura. And here I am. And I have been building Hololens and VR experiences since then. Alan: It really comes down to the experiences, because the devices themselves-- the Hololens 2 is a magical piece of kit, but if nothing's on it, it's kind of useless. So you decided to go into the experiences. And what are some of the things that you've been building? Because I've seen some of them, but I'll let you guys speak to them. What are some of the experiences that you've been building? Jamie: Yeah, we're really-- the one that we're super excited about right now is the work that we've been doing with Qantas Airlines. So what we've done with Qantas is we've taken the 737-800 cockpit and we've re-created it as a digital twin. And then using Hololens 2, we allow you to interact with that cockpit as if you were there, so you could be sitting in your living room or a classroom or anywhere really in the world, networked together and interacting with functions inside the cockpit, the same way that you would do in a physical simulator. So as we know with Hololens 2, it's tracking all 25+ points on each of your hands. You just-- there's very

Sheneisha sits down to chat with wellness lifestyle enthusiast and author Tonya Kinlow in this special Sunday episode themed around managing COVID-19 induced stress. They talk a good bit about the practice of meditation, Tonya offers three tips about what we could be doing to help manage our wellness during the pandemic, and she also talks some about the impact this outbreak will have on our minds following its eventual end. Connect with Tonya on LinkedIn, and check out her website, remarkablewellness.us.Interested in finding out more about the TKI Remarkable Wellness Journey? Learn on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube.You can click here to browse Tonya's books on Amazon.Find out how the CDC suggests you wash your hands by clicking here.Help food banks respond to COVID-19. Learn more at FeedingAmerica.org.Visit our website.TRANSCRIPTSheneisha: What's up? Sheneisha here with Living Corporate, and today we'll be discussing managing COVID-19-induced stress. We have a very special guest. Our guest is a Wellness Lifestyle Entrepreneur, A Woman in Technology, a Certified Health & Wellness Coach, a Blogger, and an Author. Her three books, A Year of (ME) Mindful Eating to Improve Wellbeing, The 10 Days- A Wellness Retreat for Personal Transformation and A Wellness Journey are all dedicated to health and wellness through mindful living. She writes a weekly blog, Mindfulness Matters, raising awareness for living a holistically healthy life. An avid foodie and mindfulness enthusiast, she left Corporate America in 2016 to launch the UGottaEat app, creating a virtual marketplace providing much needed fresh and healthy meals into local communities, and a platform for food sharing. UGottaEat is dedicated to improving the overall health and wellness of society. She also launched TK Inspirations offering Remarkable Wellness Transformation Coaching, group Wellness Journeys and inspirational meditations talks based on discovering wellness through purpose, and how we together can improve the overall health and wellness of our world. Before becoming an entrepreneur, our guest was a Finance Executive with a corporate career spanning over 26 years. A crippling car accident involving her children led to the awakening of her spiritual journey. She takes great pride in being from Washington, DC and a graduate of THE Florida A&M University. Her greatest joys are her children, Evan and Taylor, and her husband, Chef Craig Stevens. Let’s welcome our special guest Tonya Kinlow! Tonya, welcome to the show.Tonya: Thank you. Thank you for my introduction.Sheneisha: It is fabulous, as it only should be being a Rattler.Tonya: Yes! Oh, that's so exciting. I love my FAMUly. Absolutely.Sheneisha: Yes, and it's so good to have you. So how are you?Tonya: I'm good. You know, I'm like everybody else, surviving this virus, a new way of life, but, you know, I really try to keep it positive and be a light for other people. So in that way I'm doing well, healthy and happy.Sheneisha: Yes, I love that. See that? A whole 'nother logo. There go another business, Tonya. [both laugh] Tonya: Let me write that down... [laughs]Sheneisha: So Tonya, I've given the intro. Can you tell us - who is Tonya Kinlow?Tonya: So, you know, many years ago I probably would have said just what you said. I would have said what I do, things like that, but now--it's funny because one of the first questions I ask when I do my morning meditations is "Who am I?" You know? "What do I want? What is my purpose?" These essential questions. "What am I grateful for?" So it's not what I do but who I am. So I can say I am a spiritual being living a human experience, and I am a seeker, you know, seeking truth and wisdom and ultimately happiness and inner peace, and in that way we're all alike, you know? We all want the same things. I think I just sort of transitioned and transformed over time to sort of when I got out of corporate and started thinking about life in a bigger way that it just became my goal. Like, who doesn't want to be happy? Like, I think everyone's goal should be one of happiness. So I've started to focus more on the spiritual part of me versus just the human part, which is where there's a lot of power. So I would say, aside from what you just presented about me and my background and where I went to school and where I'm from, who I am is a spiritual seeker. I'm looking, and my job, my role, my purpose is to use my gifts to make the world a better place. So I'm uniquely me. I'm a woman, a mother, mentor, entrepreneur, spiritualist. I practice compassion. I'm funny. I got a loud laugh. I am really smart, people tell me, and I'm just a little bit of a diva, and that's me. [laughs]Sheneisha: And you know what? I love all of it, all of it, and I love how you made the point, or emphasis, on the difference between who you are and what you do. That's important. That's so, so important. I think a lot of times we get that mixed up. Could you share more insight about TK Inspirations? Like, how did you enter this space of wellness transformation? But let's start first with tell me about TK Inspirations.Tonya: So TK Inspirations is only a year old and we've done a lot. About a little over a year, maybe a year and a half ago, I was finishing my second--my second and third book, because they sort of accompanied one another, and it's called The 10 Days. So I was talking about these seven intentions, a way of living life, that I have discovered over my lifetime that really can help you overcome any circumstance that comes before you. Like, it just takes your mindset, your way of living, and it's a practice, and so I developed these seven intentions and I wrote a book about it, and at the same time I decided to get a certification for being a health coach, because I felt like I wanted that, you know, certification behind my name and the technical aspect, and that was more, like, about, you know, your insulin levels and carbohydrates and proteins, the really more practical, so I was able to combine, as I do now with everything, right, the practical human side with the spiritual side, and they both--and then align them. I did that. So they were coming out. We self-published and then got it on Amazon, and we were okay, and I went on--last March, a year ago--on a cruise with my sorority sisters. I had a big anniversary celebration and I led the morning meditations and they--we started having a conversation and they loved the idea. They said, "Everybody needs to know this now." So from there I started doing wellness journeys and coaching and just talking to people about these principles and teaching these things, and I did two wellness journeys last year. They're, like, each 60 days long. I do a talk every week. So it just grew, it just blossomed, and meditation is one of the intentions, and it's just been very liberating. I actually have now--I feel like I have, through these intentions and through this journey, created the life that I want. Because I've gone through divorce, as you mentioned my kids had a really bad car accident. I've had some very tough things, as we all have had. The beauty is though when you learn how to overcome these things. I've learned. I've survived, like we're gonna survive this virus. I've survived. I know how to overcome things, and I was able to say, "Ah, here's the things that got me through," and now I just love to help other people make that same connection. So it's all inspirational, all transformational, and so it's about remarkable wellness. So that's how we got that going. And so that's TK Inspirations. Really, actually I didn't even think about it, like, we're celebrating an anniversary right now. A year old.Sheneisha: Well, happy anniversary. If I could sang, I would definitely you hit that with that "It's my anniversary." [both laugh] I would, but congratulations on TK Inspirations's anniversary, and thank you so much for entering this space and giving us something to help us even go beyond surviving, and with that being said, Tonya, I'd like to dive into this COVID-19-induced stress. That's what I'm calling it, y'all, COVID-19-induced stress. So what are the symptoms of stress, and how can we manage it during a time like this?Tonya: So stress manifests itself in a million ways, but some of the really obvious or major ones are--so the physical ones are headaches. A lot of people are tired now, even though they're not even really doing anything, you know? Fatigue, lethargy. Just something not being right. That's sort of the physical thing. Sometimes people break out in hives. The emotional piece is more you can recognize it when you're overthinking, your mind is racing, you have fear and guilt, you know? There's, like, this anxiety, this edge, and just a lack of motivation and a lot of uncertainty. When you're feeling this way, that is stress. And then there's also some really unique things I wanted to point out that people may not be aware of. Anything that's sort of off-kilter or that's different, it's stress, which is an indicator where, if you're paying attention to it, then you can manage it or you can learn how to live with it. So for instance, for me I've been having time shifts, and I've talked to two other people this week who are having the same issue. Like, the time... time doesn't make sense anymore. I think only 15 minutes has gone by and it's been an hour and a half, or I think it's been 3 hours and it's only been 20 minutes. Well, that's an exaggeration. An hour and a half, you know? Or I'd wake up in the middle of the night and I'd close my eyes and wake back up, I think it's 15 minutes, and it's time to get up, right? So these feelings of, like, nothing is the same, that is also an indicator of stress. Not as harsh or harmful as, you know, migraines and things like that. That's just sort of a wake-up to remind us that everything is changing right now. So I think that's interesting. I don't know if people think about time shifting or if you can't recognize--like, people don't look the same to you. Like, if you've ever looked in the mirror and said, "I don't recognize myself anymore," you know? Times of high stress, things just don't seem--it's like a vertigo or an imbalance. Those are all indicators of stress, so those are things to look out for. Anything off, anything that's not working out. And then the question is, as you said, what do you do about it? And the first thing is to be aware of it. So I have to be aware that I'm being stressed out. "I'm thinking too much. I'm getting these headaches," and then you can do something about it. So the first step is, like, just checking out your own body, checking out your own behavior. Oh, I forgot to mention short tempers, you know? Attitudes. Some people just don't handle stress well, and those things, you have to find it in yourself, see it, and then you can react to it. That's the first thing. If people just walk around blind, it is awareness. So I would say the big one thing is to think about what you think about. That is the first thing. What are you stressed out about? What is it doing to your body?Sheneisha: That is a really good tip. I didn't even think about what to think about.Tonya: Mm-hmm. It's awareness, right? Because stressors are--we just let our bodies run wild, you know, with thoughts and worries and fears, but if you start to think about what you're thinking about, there's an infinite amount of things you could be thinking about. Why just choose the negative ones? Once you start recognizing that, it just makes a world of difference.Sheneisha: A big, big difference, especially if there's so many things already being projected on you from family and friends and just this whole ordeal right now from what you see in the media. It's easier to revert to the panic like everyone else when you can honestly just take a moment for yourself and have that carved out time where you meditate and reflect on things that are impacting you. I know a lot of people right now are probably going crazy sitting in the house with their families and their loved ones. You can look at this side of it and just say, "Hey, this is that vacation. It may not be exactly the vacation that we wanted, but this is that time when we can really embrace one another and learn some things about your family that you never knew before," you know?Tonya: Yes, exactly. And that's another thing, when people are getting a little of, you know, that cabin fever, and so within--it builds, the stress builds, because then what? People start to overeat or eat whatever they can get their hands on because they don't want to go out, you know? Or drink too much or binge watch TV, you know? So there's some things that we might do without awareness that are just negative, it just sets us back. It stresses us out more. Now we may have gained weight. Sheneisha: Ooh. I have to manage this. I done went on Amazon and got all this stuff for a home gym. Like, Lord, keep these pounds down. And it goes even into my next question. Like, what are three tips you would like to share to those during this quarantine? Like, what should we be doing?Tonya: Yeah, okay. First is to give yourself a break. Now, this is overarching. This is overarching. We're all in the same boat. None of this is anyone's fault. So the ability to pay bills, the inability to go outside, all of those, this is--we've never felt the oneness of the world and the universe before. We should feel it now. So one is to just give yourself a break. Let the guilt go. Let the fear go. It's all going to be okay in the long term. So that's just, like, a big mindset, but for practical things also to do at home that, you know, we can't use--I always say we can't just use the same things that got us here, so we, as humans, we focus on our five senses, but we are spiritual beings. There is a bigger power that this is the time to tap into. This power is changing the entire world right now. Like, there's a virus spreading. People are working together, you know? People are being kind to one another. There's a whole shift that's happening. You know, tragedy breeds kindness sometimes. It's a shame that it has to be a tragedy. So there's a lot. So creativity is the first thing. We don't have to be competitive now. We're not at work, you know, competing for that next promotion or racing home 'cause we gotta beat the traffic, you know, to get home and make dinner for our kids. This is the time where you can let that competitive side go and bring out the creative side. So do some home projects, do some do it yourself. I've been making shea butter. I just sent my best friend a package with some whipped shea butter with lavender. It's beautiful, you know? And it's something nice to do in the afternoon and I could send it to someone. Journaling, you know? Do things internal or find, you know, something creative. Then the second thing is positive thinking. I just said there's a million things you can think about, so instead of focusing on "Oh, there's no toilet tissue," well, there's facial tissue? You know? Sheneisha: See, I told y'all about this toilet paper. Nobody is listening to me. People are going crazy about this toilet paper. But yes, please proceed.Tonya: Yeah, it's crazy. I literally went to six stores one morning. I really needed it, like, last week. Like, six stores, and then finally I found--I waited for a truck to deliver. It's crazy, but I wasn't mad. Like, I don't understand. I don't understand. I guess I do understand the psychology a little bit, but I tend to say, "Well, I was just picking up some more packs of facial tissue. I just need some tissue." [laughs] You know? Or anti-bacterial stuff. I looked up how to make it. I made some at home. Like, instead of angry and upset about the negative, it's about shifting your mindset to a positive space, to a creative space. You can find solutions, and if you don't it's still gonna be okay. And then the third thing is the biggest thing, and this is one of the seven intentions - meditation, and I mentioned it before. It's one of the biggest things you can do to calm your mind. So what produces stress is this chemical, cortisol. Meditation calms--it blocks the production of cortisol. So the things that we do, the spiritual things align with our bio-chemistry, with our body, and when we are aware, when we start to recognize and manage those things... if you meditate in the morning, it will make your whole day go better. I mean, that stillness and time with spirit, God, the universe, however you call it, will cover your whole day, and it brings that awareness to you. So those three things, those three tips. It's a shift for people because we're so busy and crowded throughout our days that we don't take the time to be creative, to pick back up that hobby, to read a book, you know? To think about creative solutions instead of complaining about problems. So these three things--and the meditation thing, if you can just do one thing, start a meditation practice. That's a stress reliever. It's physical and spiritual. It's, like, a magic elixir.Sheneisha: Yes, meditation, and this meditation goes into - how do we stay focused, right? So we're meditating, right? How do we stay focused while experiencing a pandemic like COVID-19? And even things outside of just this, 'cause there's so many things that can impact your day and induce stress. How do we stay focused during this time? Would meditation be the key?Tonya: Medititation would be one of the keys, one of the main keys, to healthy--because when you start to... and I talked about those seven intentions, when you start to be able to overcome any situation, that means any situation. We all have deaths and relationships and sicknesses and illnesses. That is how life goes. People come into our lives, people leave. So we always have these. The question is how do we overcome them? What are the tools? How can we be equipped? Meditation is one of--it's the biggest--and to me that's the alignment of the physical and spiritual, but there's other things. You know, exercise, self-care, journaling, getting enough rest, but the one thing that you can do to stay focused, I'd say on the practical side, is you set your mindset. It's all about a mindset shift. Again, now, the mind works--there's this executive function, so whenever you put yourself in the context of a situation, you make better decisions and that situation is easier. What do I mean by that? When you're at school, you know you're at school. It's about the teachers, your friends, your homework, what are your assignments. That's what you're thinking about. You're not thinking about your family reunion when you're at school. When you're at your family reunion, hopefully you're not thinking about work. You're meeting your cousins, you're cooking out, you know? "What are we gonna eat?" You're all in that context. Right now we need to be in the context of health and wellness. So everything that--if you can just focus everything that you're doing, bring it back to "Is this good for me?" Is it "Am I washing my hands? Am I keeping a good distance? Am I being mentally healthy?" Everything will naturally come back to the context of health and wellness instead of putting everything in context of the virus. That's gonna make you fearful. It's gonna make you stressed out and depressed. So yes, the virus is part of it, but the main context, the main focus is health and wellness. "How do I stay healthy?" Not "How do I avoid sickness?" "How do I stay healthy?" It's the same thing, but that positive outlook and energetic transference is in your mindset. So everything--we're not at school. We're not at work. We're living our lives. We're in our home. But we are in the mindset of health and wellness. That will go so far, awareness to health and wellness.Sheneisha: So with this health and wellness and it taking us so far, what impact do you think the coronavirus will have on our minds following this, like, months beyond, hopefully when all of this is over and it's resolved. What impact do you think it wil leave upon the minds?Tonya: I think we have a great opportunity to find ourselves, find the world, in a better place. I think we would be missing an opportunity. Once we get through this, it's gonna be like spring. Like, we're going through a winter. We're going through a setback. It's like the world has the flu or the world is going through a divorce. The globe is going through a tough time, but like every time, once you get over it there's an emergence, and I think that we're gonna find that we're gonna work together, we're gonna have a lot of compassion for one another, because a lot of us are suffering losses financially, physically, people, and we all feel bad for one another, so what's gonna happen is there's gonna be a lot more compassion for one another, and that in and of itself is gonna make the world a better place. We're gonna be cleaner. We're gonna be more caring about our fellow man, all of those things, after we get through it, but we can get through it positively. I always say, "You create the future in the present." What we do now determines the world that we're gonna be in. If we start wars now, fighting over beds and, you know, things, if we begin a war, it's gonna take a lot longer. If we go negative and close our doors to helping other people it's gonna take a lot longer, but what I see right now is a lot of compassion showing up, and if we can learn how to get over this hump positively, the world will be a better place on the other side.Sheneisha: Yes, it definitely will. It definitely will be a better place, and that can start with y'all stop withholding all that toilet paper, how about that? Let's start there. #1. [both laugh]Tonya: I went to the store today. I told you I made shea butter. I also made hand sanitizer, and when I was at this little store, the guy, he said "I'm almost out of hand sanitizer, oh, my goodness," so I took him a bottle today and I just gave it to him. He's like, "What do I owe you?" I said, "Nothing." I felt so good.Sheneisha: See? Look at that, y'all. It's things like this, you know, to show that oneness that you spoke of earlier. There was a need, and you went and used the resources you had to help meet that need, and hopefully that can just be paid forward to so many others. And you know what? That plays into your wellness lifestyle. So what are some misconceptions that people of color about wellness lifestyle?Tonya: Oh, my goodness. So many from different places. I can say, you know, on the spiritual aside, because I'm talking about--and I call it remarkable wellness. It is your body, your soul, your spirit, your emotions. It's everything, because it's all interwoven. So, you know, if someone says, "Oh," you know, "I'm not into that wellness of the spiritual side," they think you're trying to take them away from church, you know, or something. That's why I say, you know, "If you don't believe in God, or if you do, or if it's the universe, however your words are," but we get real protective and scared around that, so that keeps us limited sometimes. When it's working out, it is--sometimes people just don't want to get their hair sweat out. [laughs] We gotta get away from that. Like, a healthy body is meaningful, but people have a conception--they feel like it's not fun, and being healthy and strong and energetic is fun, you know? It's like, if you gotta go upstairs to get to your bedroom, that's just what you gotta do. It's not good or bad. So we have these sort of notions around just not wanting to change what we have, and I think this is a good time for us to start getting past that, you know? People say, "I don't have time to work out. I don't have this, th--" We've got time now. There's plenty of time, and this would be a great--what if we all came out on the other side of this in--I'ma just say four months. Who knows how long it's gonna take? Three or four months--healther than when we went in because we actually had time to sleep, to walk, to whatever? So I think that we just need to change, we just need to sort of break some falsehoods, and my main thing is it's all about awareness. I mean, once we start focusing on the negative side of everything and start focusing on the positive, it sort of takes care of itself. If you have a wellness mindset like we were talking about, then you're gonna want to work out. It's only 30 minutes, you know, 45 minutes. It's because of your mindset. You know it's gonna reduce your stress. It's gonna make you feel good. You're gonna be in that wellness space. So those are a few things that I think we gotta sort of turn the switch on.Sheneisha: Yes, turn the switch on to this awareness, this health, being in this space, and talking about being in this space, can you speak to the live meditations? Like, you've done recently a few live limitations, and they've held impact that has helped change the community.Tonya: Yeah. So I mentioned meditation a few times, and I'm not, you know, a master or anything, but I'm very connected, and so I know how good it makes me feel. What I tend to do is bring people together. So the last meditation was on protection and healing, because that's what we need now. And, you know, wherever two or more gather there's a lot of power. so the live meditations, bringing people together. I did a Facebook Live, and I'll try to do them weekly. When you bring people together in that oneness, in that energetic space, it's powerful. It's really powerful when you do it by yourself anyway, but when you bring people doing these things together [?] it makes all of the difference. And what meditation does for me is it makes me more connected. So everything is energy. Everything is vibrational, you know? Whether you can hear it or not, like a dog hearing a whistle or radio vibrations, you know, everything is actually that energy that we transfer. It's what sort of connects us. So examples of how this invisible or spiritual or whatever we want to talk about energy works. You know when someone's staring at you from across the room. You know when someone's standing too close to you behind you, when someone walks on you. You know when you call someone or when you think of someone and then they call you. Those things aren't coincidences. That is how the energy works. And so with meditations and those practices, you learn how to control some things. You learn how to control your thinking. Because you only want positive energy to come to you, so therefore you only put positive energy out, and that's what I do in my meditations. I am putting out positive energy, and sort of we're all lifting the world. We're building a sacred space, almost like protection. Like, you can almost just envision, like, a bubble around you, and it's just the light of God. It's all things good. No conflict. Peace. Inner peace. Happiness. Wisdom. Fulfillment. That's all we need. That's all we want. And so when you can continue to practice energetically, how does that feel? How does that feel when you give that out to other people? How does it feel when you receive it back? These are the live meditations. So we create a sacred space of health and protection and, again, if I'm happy and I can make you happy and then you make someone else happy, we've just made the world a better place just like that. So that's what I try to do in my meditations, and we'll keep up pretty much topically. Right now it's clearly all about protection and health, but I think it's also about transformation. We're going through a transformation, and I think we can do it positively.Sheneisha: Yes, we can. How can we join y'all on Facebook? What's the Facebook page where people can tune in?Tonya: TK Inspirations, and I have [?] on Instagram, but we definitely did the Facebook Live, and I think we're gonna just definitely do it weekly. So definitely join my page, follow me, and it's TKIRemarkableWellness on Facebook, and it's @Remarkable_Wellness on Instagram. And I just started a YouTube channel too, and I will be doing some meditations on there, and we talk about these seven intentions more and daily affirmations, everything positive. So whichever gets your, you know, mode of social media, I try to show up in different ways.Sheneisha: And speaking of showing up, what's the YouTube channel?Tonya: TKInspirations. Yep. Tonya Kinlow TK Inspirations. That'll bring me up. And we just launched it right before this started, this virus started, so it's very new, so I would love to have more conversations on there. Sheneisha: Yes, guys. Make sure you check out TK Inspirations YouTube, TKIRemarkableWellness on Facebook. Tune in. And Tonya, are there any key takeaways you'd like to share with our listeners?Tonya: Yes, that I think the biggest thing that we're gonna take from this is what I would call whether it's the law of attraction or, you know, giving and receiving. Stay mindful of that, because what you put out you definitely always get back, and so that's why it's important to put the stress away. Let it go, because what you're wanting is a clean, healthy experience, and we're all connected, so just that connection, positivity, positive energy. With that and practicing that every day, you can overcome anything. And again, I talk about seven intentions, and when you put them together in a certain way they are so powerful. Each of them by themselves is powerful, like meditation or exercising, but when you put them together in a certain way it is extremely powerful. All positive things, no negatives. Always positive.Sheneisha: Yes, all positive. All positive vibes all 2020, please.Tonya: All day long.Sheneisha: Yes, I love it. I love it. Tonya, do you have any shout-outs? Family, friends, YouTube, Facebook? Any shout-outs?Tonya: Yeah, I want to shout-out to all of my wellness journeyers. I want to shout-out though to all of the people on the front lines right now. The health care workers, pharmacists, doctors, PAs, RNs, everybody. The policemen, everything. Just the oneness, and then all of our families. Certainly I shout-out FAMU. We on the phone, right? [both laugh] And to my family, my kids and my husband for sure. And I just want to say that we are about to launch a new wellness journey, so I want to shout-out the TKI Wellness Journey. Like I said, we did two last year. It's 8 weeks. Every week we talk about one of the intentions. I do a one-on-one coaching with everybody, and it's interactive. We do it on Zoom so people can ask questions. So when people are thinking about what to do at home, this would be great. Like, take the wellness journey with me, and we're gonna launch it... it's gonna start April 13th. And the other thing we didn't say is my website. All the information is on remarkablewellness.us. So that's coming. I would love to see more people be a part of it. And during that we do this 10 days--it's like a retreat. We're working together. I'm doing guided meditations. Like, we're just doing a wellness retreat at home. So I think it would be a great time for more people to participate in a wellness journey. That's my big shout-out.Sheneisha: Yes, y'all. Make sure y'all participate. Be active, especially in a time like this. Oneness, positive vibes, being united, helping each other out, just putting forth all things positive going forward.Tonya: All things positive, and there's no need to be bored. Like, this will be a great, positive addition, and again, we all come out on the other side better than we went in.Sheneisha: Yes, so much better. So much better. And thank you again for highlighting all of those on the front line, our nurses, physicians, pharmacists--all my fellow pharmacists, physical therapists, respiratory therapists. All of those on the front line, thank you guys so much for what you all are doing. Police officers. Even those at Auto Zone. Shout-out to Auto Zone, you know? Helping those out when they need things. So just thank you guys in this, everyone. Thank you all so much.Tonya: Oh, my goodness. The people at the grocery store. The cashiers. Oh, my goodness.Sheneisha: Yes, cashiers. All grocery stores. Thank you, Wal-Mart. Thank you.Tonya: Stockers, yes.Sheneisha: Yes, everyone. Truck drivers, thank y'all, because I need my food and my tissue. Everybody, thank y'all. UPS, FedEx.Tonya: We're a thankful people. This energy, and this--it's just gonna make it better, and I'm so thankful for you for having me on here. I'm very happy about this. Thank you for having me. It was a great conversation. I feel good hearing you.Sheneisha: You know, and vice versa. Thank you so much, Tonya. We greatly appreciate it. And that is our show. Thank you for joining us on the Living Corporate podcast. Be sure to follow Tonya Kinlow on LinkedIn and her website, Remarkable Wellness. You guys heard her YouTube channel. Make sure to follow in. And her Facebook page, TKIRemarkableWellness. Make sure you guys follow her. All things positive energy. And make sure to follow us on Instagram @LivingCorporate, Twitter @LivingCorp_Pod, and subscribe to our newsletter through www.living-corporate.com. If you have questions you'd like for us to answer and read on the show, make sure you email them to us at livingcorporatepodcast@gmail.com. This has been Sheneisha, and you've been listening to Tonya Kinlow, founder of Remarkable Wellness, TKI. Y'all, check her out. This is great, great energy, and just thank you again, Tonya, for being here with us today. Thank you.Tonya: Thank you. Thank you so much.

Because I've watched so many k dramas, and there are soooo many handsome and talented actors, I've split up my favorite k drama actors into two podcasts! Do I adore the same actors as you?? Tune in to find out!

Good morning everybody! I was on with Ken and Matt and we had a good discussion about how Remote Diagnostics, Remote Work and Coronaviruses, and AI and how this is changing our world.   These and more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Automated Machine Generated Transcript: Matt We're back again, and it is 7:38 on the WGAN Morning News with Ken and Matt. We are now talking to Craig Peterson is our tech guru. And he joins us now. Ken Mr. Craig, your timing couldn't be better because I got a new MacBook because my keys kept falling off the butterfly keyboard, which sucked him. I don't know why Apple did it. So I installed on I migrate everything over. And now, when I put on Chrome, and I tried to Google, I get this thing called Rona that comes on air express or something. And I clicked on it to see what it was and at someplace in Tel Aviv, that that says Nitsa. And so what's fascinating to me, by the way, Craig, I'm sure you can't do tech support from the phone right now. But uh, he got a brand new computer and did nothing. I didn't know it was already there. And on my last laptop. I mean, I thought it I identified it as like malware, right. His previous laptop, I sort of found a way around it or whatever, but like he just doesn't do anything and it's there also. Craig Yeah, but it must have happened when you migrated from your old one, hidden deep somewhere, and got installed during migration. Ken Yeah. Oh, that's why you pulled it from the old computer. I thought it was off my old computer. No, it wasn't I hit it. When I did that screen, I hit it so well, should I email Google? Should I email Chrome? Or I throw the computer against the wall? That is another option. I mean, what's this guy? If I email this guy in Tel Aviv, and said, what's this? Craig Yeah, don't do that. Don't do that. For the love of God. Don't do that. Matt They did a scan. They didn't find it. I've done so, give me suggestions. Craig Well, it sounds like you got a good tech support guy there locally to figure it out. But it looks like this is coming from Google, isn't it? He's got Chrome. It comes up from Chrome. I didn't know you didn't Google. Ken When I hit a web Chrome, it comes up instead of saying, "Google," it says, "Search." And then it's a smart search. It has this air Express, Facebook, Twitter, and it's just a standard launch page, but it has this Ollie Express thing next to it. Craig It's malware. Yeah, something new, but they got installed a while ago, a month ago and migrated. Well, that sort of thing takes a little bit to fix, and I definitely can do it. I bring it down virtually. Ken I wonder if I find the mouse if my guy can do it. Craig Yeah, usually the migration, it's not a big problem. And it's, there's a lot of these types of things go around. Well, of course, the biggest one is when people install these toolbars on their browsers. There's nothing but spyware in there. It doesn't sound like that. Matt would notice the difference. The toolbar Yeah, Matt The toolbar Yeah. No, I actually, that's the first thought I had too. I tried to get rid of it. I went to see if it was an extension. It was an extension. Yeah, I think I put Malwarebytes on his computer too. It's got Malwarebytes, and I ran it, and it found nothing. So this is probably not nasty, it's just annoying. Craig Yes. Matt It's trying to sell him something. Craig Yeah. Well, hey guys, I've got to bring something up here that I did almost a week ago now. There are millions of people who are working from home currently. Remote workers, many people even trying to figure out how to start a little business at home. I almost didn't wake up for this morning. Because I've been putting on these webinars, there are nine different webinars on topics related to security, not installing these nasty browser extensions. I did two webinars yesterday. These webinars are free. We talked about a browser extension you can put onto Chrome and other browsers, that is going to save your laptop battery, it's going to speed things up. It's just going to do a whole bunch of great stuff for you. I wanted to bring up today that I again, a bunch of people signed up. My next one is on Thursday. I'm going to do two on Thursday, two on Friday, one on Sunday. And then every day next week, I'm going to be doing two of them. And we're covering all kinds of topics, including some extensions that do stop malware on your browsers. We're going to go into VPN, when can you use them? When should you use them that Norton VPN isn't going to help you at all when it's time to get into the office, using a VPN versus remote desktop software. We're going to be covering your firewalls, and What kind of a firewall should you have? The attacks prevalent right now for home users? For a network router slash firewall? How should you be trading at a Wi-Fi? What do you need to know about Wi-Fi? All of this stuff and all free. And unlike that nastiness that you've got to your machine can I'm not sitting there trying to sell you anything. These are free, and we're talking about 10 hours plus worth of some training here. I'm working from home and doing it securely. And what I'd like to do is ask people to take a couple of minutes right now, because whether you are a retiree, or you are running a 500 person company, this information is something you need to have. And we've had a great response. I love the feedback people have been giving. So that's kind of given me a little bit more energy to do this. But if you are interested, You need to be on my email list because that's where I put the announcements out. I am not one of these marketers and new million pieces of emails a day. But if you go to Craig Peterson comm slash subscribe. It is so important right now because I'm getting notifications every day almost from the FBI, about new scans that the bad guys are running against people who are working from home. It is nuts. So these are not just me lecturing, these are two, and as they are LIVE. I'm answering all your questions, live. I'm showing you how to do things. And it's I hate to say this sounds a little self-serving, but it is thousands of dollars worth of training that I'm doing for free This is to help people out. Craig Peterson dot com slash subscribe to attend You're going to need you can have a computer you can use your tablet you can use your phone, your smartphone that is and make sure you've got a piece of paper and a pencil ready and handy to do stuff. And anyone who attends gets replays. I have specialized training and special thank you things are people that participate because I know it's a lot of work for you too, but, but I want to get this out right now. It is just it's so important. I don't want you to get nailed or badly by these bad guys. Matt we're talking to Craig Peterson, he's our tech guru, and he joins us at this time every Wednesday to go over what's happening in the world of technology. No topic gets discussed without Coronavirus as part of it. Ladies and gentlemen, and so that is no exception for you, Craig, companies are trying to respond to this whole thing, and it's making them turn to what appears to be artificial intelligence. Are we creating Skynet here, in response to the Coronavirus? Should I be worried about this? Unknown Speaker 8:08 I heard that Prince Charles tested positive for Coronavirus this morning. Testing positive looks like the world might be coming to an end. Who knows, right? Yeah, here's the trick. We have a lot of companies who don't have all of the workers, and there was just a new story here at the bottom of the hour talking about the Portsmouth Naval Shipyard and some of the ironworkers trying to say, Hey, listen, we this is kind of dangerous for us. Workers are just not showing up, or they're being told not to show up. It depends on the company. The big tech companies are trying to use this artificial intelligence now. I don't like the definition that pins these days are using When it comes to artificial intelligence, that word has changed. We used to think of AI and man you too as kind of a Skynet thing. Right? Right? It the computers making decisions, it's learning, it's advancing that smarter than we are, etc., etc. We don't have that yet. It hasn't happened. And there's a lot of warnings about what might happen if that were to happen. But we don't have it. It's not artificial intelligence, and it's barely even machine learning. What it is, is pattern matching. Companies like Facebook, and many others out there right now YouTube, where you're putting content on the site, and people want to make sure that you're not racist, like saying things like President Trump is excellent, which would be horrific. If someone were to say that on Facebook, for instance, tongue firmly planted in cheek there Unknown Speaker 10:02 Who is going to censor the internet now? While they're turning more heavily to computers, machine language programming is looking for patterns, and those particular patterns are what they're calling AI. It is not artificial intelligence. There's throwing that term around again. So Skynet is not a threat. But if you are trying to start a new ad campaign on Facebook, for instance, all ads are reviewed by Facebook. It is going to take longer to get it approved, and there's going to be many more false positives. That is because AI, as they call it, is a little bit more of a curmudgeon than the people who review some of these ads and articles and posts and everything else. So yeah, it this is going to force some movement forward on this AI type front, but the singularity I think, man it is still many, many years away. Matt It is still coming, though. It is today. Ken You just wish to be here fast. Well, we're talking to Craig Peterson, our tech guru joins us every Wednesday at 738. before we let you go, Coronaviruses are the story of the year, or the websites and have that the talk about screening is well you can't go to a website to get screened, but there is useful information on testing. Craig Yeah, it didn't come out, believe it or not, you can go to google.com slash Covid-19 and find information there. The symptoms are listed there. Of course, they're all over the place. The CDC has, among many others, but one of Google's companies that the company they own did launch just a few days after President Trump announced is called Verily, this primary site allows people to go on and answer a few questions. It comes up with a diagnosis of, yeah, you probably got it, which you could have got that same diagnosis from your cousin. It is very, very simple. They're adding in now where you can go to get tested because, of course, as you guys already know, they don't want you just showing up in the emergency room of a hospital, with potentially Coronavirus where you can spread it. We already know hospitals are the worst place to go if you're sick, because you can catch diseases there, you just can't get anywhere else. They don't want to add Covid-19 to that list. So you can check it out. google.com slash subscribe if you want a little more information. Unknown Speaker 12:48 All right. Greg Peterson, our tech guru. He joins us now as he always does on Wednesdays to go over the world of technology. We're going to leave it there, Craig. So we appreciate you joining us as always, and we will talk to you next week. Unknown Speaker 13:00 All right, I'll be on Saturday, of course, at 1 pm cover some more of these topics everyone needs to know. And then again that URL to sign up as Craig Peterson dot com slash subscribe in here guys. Thanks a lot, Greg. Unknown Speaker 13:15 Great. Let's go to the break room, ladies and gentlemen. Go to Eric. He's got all the top stories of the day. Transcribed by https://otter.ai --- More stories and tech updates at: www.craigpeterson.com Don't miss an episode from Craig. Subscribe and give us a rating: www.craigpeterson.com/itunes Follow me on Twitter for the latest in tech at: www.twitter.com/craigpeterson For questions, call or text: 855-385-5553

    It’s four in the morning and someone is angrily pounding on your front door, trying to get in. What do you do? That’s what Army veteran Greggory Farr had to decide. Don West and Shawn Vincent discuss Farr’s decision and the legal consequences.   Transcript: Don West: You know that surprisingly, there are plenty of those out there. Once they're on your radar and you start looking around, you see these tragic consequences coming out of people that make what may turn out to be a fatal mistake pounding on somebody's door, typically in the middle of the night, often under the influence of alcohol or sometimes, I suppose, combined with some other intoxicants of some sort. And then we had as a point that the tragic case in the Detroit, Michigan area, that Ted Wafer case, a young disoriented woman who had been in a fairly minor car accident, but clearly under the influence of alcohol and maybe some other things.   Shawn Vincent: Marijuana.   Don West: Yeah, and was pounding on the door, I suppose looking for help. I don't know if she was mistaken as to where she was or if she just was trying to raise anybody that could come help her, but she certainly gave all of the outward appearances to Mr. Wafer as an intruder, someone trying to break in the house.   Shawn Vincent: Well, and it's terrifying. So you have one person who's intoxicated and disoriented and confused and someone else who's just been awoken from a deep sleep in their home in the middle of the night. And it's confusing for everybody. Don West: Yeah. You've got people a world apart trying to meet somewhere in the middle to exercise good judgment and make some decisions that keep everybody safe and often that just doesn't get there.   Shawn Vincent: You got me thinking about my tone. When I talk about these things and write about these things -- and I think sometimes I can be harsh on the defender while we have our conversations. And I think it's in the same spirit that I'm harsh with my kids sometimes. It comes from love. Because I've seen so many of these cases were very good people, well-intentioned people are put, not because it's their fault -- these people came to their home drunk in the middle of the night and imposed on the security of their home, their family -- and they make a couple of mistakes, and you and I have tried to defend these people, and have successfully sometimes in court, but they make a couple of mistakes and it makes your job and our job so much harder, where if they had spent a little more time thinking about it in advance, what they're going to do in certain circumstances, they could have avoided it altogether or had been just so clearly justified that they never have to call us in the first place.   Don West: I suppose that we're talking now how you can prepare for what may be a highly unlikely event, but at the same time if it ever happens to you and you've taken a few minutes to think it through in advance or to get some special training on how to deal with these scenarios, whether it's the parking lot scenario and somebody's walking up to you and you have to figure out whether it's an attacker or whether it's a homeless person looking for a handout or whether it's a crazy person, a potential rapist, who knows, but you've got those moments when you have to protect yourself, but at the same time hope that you can make some good decisions and that innocent lives aren't lost.   Shawn Vincent: That's fair.   Don West: And most importantly of course, is that you don't wind up committing a crime during that process, so that even though you firmly believe that you are doing what is absolutely necessary and lawful, reasonable people can sometimes disagree and if depending on where you are, what the jurisdiction is, who the police officer is that's investigating. Perhaps we should talk about prosecutorial discretion at some point. Maybe this is a good case that we'll get to talk about that. And you just wind up on the other side of this traumatic event in what we've called before the second fight, the next fight. The next fight. And that's when you're dealing with the criminal justice system.   Shawn Vincent: I hate to see good people get prosecuted and sometimes go to jail for making what are entirely understandable mistakes, but mistakes that could have been avoided.   Don West: And by that, I think the keyword is avoidance, because any time it doesn't happen, you've avoided it and your risk zero.   Shawn Vincent: Yeah, the legal risk.   Don West: That's what Andrew Branca talks about. No matter how legally or actions are.   Shawn Vincent: How justified you might be.   Don West: Yeah, the risk is not zero that something won't happen.   Shawn Vincent: Or that you've misperceived one critical thing. And so let's go to Hawaii. There's this place called, I'm not going to say it right. EWA beach in Hawaii, I'm going to call it Ewa beach and there's a guy named Gregory Farr. He's 35-year-old army veteran. He lives there with his girlfriend and a daughter in this townhouse community, rows of townhouses. They all look-   Don West: Kind of cookie cutter?   Shawn Vincent: Remarkably similar to one another. So it's an April 15th a couple of years ago, tax day, and a sailor in the Navy, John Hasselbrink, Chief Petty Officer, 41 years old, was out drinking. He was reasonably responsible. He Ubered.   Don West: If that's the case where, well one can assume he's probably a career military if he's still in.   Shawn Vincent: At 41, yeah.   Don West: Sure. And was living that life. And did I read it correctly that he was going to ship out the next day somewhere and that's why he was, kind of lighting it up that night?   Shawn Vincent: I'm pretty sure. And so he lives in this town row, a couple of doors down. He usually keeps his door unlocked because you've got friends who come and go will crash on his sofa, and he's fine with that. So the Uber drops him off. The Uber's not pinpoint accuracy as it turns out, so he's a couple of doors down and he doesn't go to his front door, which he assumes is unlocked. He goes to the front door of Gregory Farr, who's asleep upstairs. Now Gregory, three days ago prior to this event, had hurt himself. He's in a cast, broke his ankle I think.   Don West: So he's got some limited mobility.   Shawn Vincent: He's hobbled. Right. And so now it's four in the morning, the terrible hour, four in the morning where all this stuff happens, and there's frantic pounding on the front door. This guy thinks he's at his house, he's trying to get in.   Don West: So he probably goes to the door, turns the knob. What happens is not what he expects. He gets resistance, the door is locked.   Shawn Vincent: Right. I think he assumes one of his buddies came in and crashed on the couch, they locked him out.   Don West: So he pounds on the door, wakes him up and they let him in and he goes to bed and.   Shawn Vincent: And they'd laugh about it and work off their hang overs the next late morning I imagine, but that's not what happens. Our guy Farr, he gets a rifle. The reports didn't say what kind of rifle he has, but it's a long gun and he goes downstairs and he's sort of covering the stairway that leads to the front door. There's a window there. You can see that there's a figure out there. It's someone he doesn't recognize. He calls out, wants to know who he is.   Don West: So at this point he's making noise from the inside trying to get this guy's attention, asking him questions, but no sense of recognition or no response on the outside other than the continued. . .   Shawn Vincent: The continuation of it. He's said that he had his girlfriend call 9-1-1. I assume she did. I haven't found any reports that prove that she did that. I haven't heard the 9-1-1 phone call in any of the news reports that I read on this, and that's what we have to go by. But let's assume that that happened ,or at least that he intended for her to call. So this goes on. So then we read at one point that he tells investigators, he thought his daughter was asleep up in bed, but I guess she's on the mattress downstairs. So she's sort of in between him now at the top of the stairs with his hobbled ankle in a cast and a rifle and this guy who's plowing away on his front door. And he fires.   Don West: So as I understand his thinking, from what the reports seem to indicate, is that once he realizes that his daughter is essentially between him and the door, but in close proximity to the door, he's now concerned for her individual safety, not just the general safety of the family, but now he realizes that she is at high risk from this fella if he bursts in.   Shawn Vincent: Right when he comes in, he's going to get to her first, and I'm the father and I'm injured I can't get to her quickly. That's a terrifying place to be.   Don West: So that basically was the deciding factor from what you can tell-   Shawn Vincent: So this guy's not responding. He's had it. And so it seems like he fired one shot this rifle through the door.   Don West: And as far as we know, the door is still locked. There's been no progress made getting in by this intoxicated sailor.   Shawn Vincent: That's right.   Don West: But nonetheless, inside the homeowners are now armed, yet to some degree disabled, not as able to be physical, not as able to make some decisions in terms of his relative capacity physically with the guy outside and whether anybody would allow someone in just to fight them under these circumstances is certainly overwhelmed by the idea of a minor child at risk.   Shawn Vincent: Right. We talk about immanence all the time, and I think he seemed content to call out and wait -- until he had a suspicion that his daughter might be at risk, and that wasn't a chance he was willing to take, so he fires and kills the guy.   Don West: Why are so many of these cases that we talk about one shot fatalities. I've been a criminal defense lawyer for a long, long time and I've handled lots of aggravated battery cases, attempted murder cases where there's been one, two, three, five shots and nobody dies. And yet these innocent homeowner cases almost always one shot and the person on the other side dies. They're typically pretty decent people in their own right. They just made a tragic mistake of going to the wrong door and compounded of course by their level of intoxication.   Shawn Vincent: Michael Drejka just happened to hit him in the heart. Could have hit him an inch over.   Don West: The handicap parking place shooting.   Shawn Vincent: Yeah, George Zimmerman. One shot.   Don West: Yep.   Shawn Vincent: This guy's an Army veteran. He understood how to handle a rifle and been trained to shoot. Gerald Strebendt had one shot; he was a veteran Marine sniper.   Don West: Well, and that's, I imagine if you're going to assume that training played some part in it, even if it's through a door, that the notion is you shoot for the large part of the body, the center mass, and that's where a lot of vital organs are.   Shawn Vincent: And if you hit it, then you hit it.   Don West: And if you don't, you may very well not kill somebody, but if you do or you hit a place that's going to bleed out, then it just takes a few seconds.   Shawn Vincent: So for whatever reason, often it is one shot as the case in this case. So he's eventually arrested on manslaughter charges. I'll add that the gun he had, I don't know all the details behind this, but he didn't have it legally, so he was arrested on weapons charges as well. And you and I have talked about this before in cases where those are mutually exclusive things. You can legally justifiably defend yourself with an illegal weapon and potentially be justified in the homicide but still face weapons charges for having an illegal weapon.   Don West: That's right. That's happened surprisingly often actually where the claim of self-defense may very well be supported by the evidence and no charges are filed, but at the same time a convicted felon in possession would be a charge that some people would have to deal with or some other illegal weapon possession of some sort.   Shawn Vincent: And we've seen people run for the scene because they knew they weren't allowed to have the gun and made their defense case much harder. And then some of the weird stuff happens, and we'll talk about, you called it lawyer nerd stuff earlier. We went and talked about some lawyer nerd stuff, but it's relevant because each one of these cases gets prosecuted or not differently, and it affects the defender's lives in myriad ways, but in this case, they arrest him, the charge him with a manslaughter, then they screw up speedy trial. They took too long, I guess, the prosecutor, to go through certain steps, and a judge dismisses it. But you made a distinction here. He dismissed it without prejudice, which meant that months later they pulled together this case and they came back and they charged him with manslaughter again.   Don West: The initial criminal charge was dismissed on a speedy trial violation, because apparently the judge specifically allowed that the dismissal was without prejudice. In legal parlance, that typically means that a legal, a judicial action is taken typically a dismissal of some sort, but the key word is without prejudice. Without prejudice means that it's not fatal to the case and oftentimes that lawyers have, especially in a civil context, you can fix it. You can amend the pleading and file it again. So a dismissal without prejudice usually gives leave to take another run at it. Whereas frankly, that's a pretty novel concept to me in criminal law. I'm not really familiar how many states would allow a dismissal, especially on speedy trial grounds without prejudice, but clearly that's what happened here.   Had the judge dismissed it with prejudice, that typically means that's the end of it. Nobody can go back at another bite at the apple. A speedy trial is a notion that's a criminal procedure issue that originally is sort of designed at least, constitutionally, to keep people from languishing in jail waiting for their day in court.   Shawn Vincent: You, the State, the oppressive government, you can't just arrest me on charges and then keep me in jail pending trial for 10 years, keeping me in prison without a trial.   Don West: Without a determination of guilt. Sure. There's a provision in the United States Constitution for speedy trial in the day to day work of a criminal defense lawyer that would be known as constitutional speedy trial and that looks at a lot of factors including prejudice to the defendant for the delay and bringing the person to trial. Maybe they've lost witnesses or other evidence that they could have preserved had they then brought to trial more quickly.   Don West: That can even sometimes exist in a far different context than what we're talking about here. But here we're talking about a state procedural rule, just like there's an overall constitutional speedy trial concept, that essentially focuses on due process and the fairness of the way that you were treated and the prejudice that you've encountered as a result of not being moved along in the system. And under state court, there might be very specific rules and it could be as hard and fast as a specific number of days. And if you're not brought to trial with any specific number of days, then the court has the authority to dismiss it. I remember in the old days, old days meaning 20, 30 years ago, that Florida had a very specific speedy trial rule for both misdemeanors and felonies, but for felonies it was 180 days. And if you were arrested and you were not brought to trial within 180 days, the court had the obligation to dismiss the case on application.   So you often would look at the calendar and figure out how many days actually where the 180th day fell and if you weren't brought to trial and jury selection started on that day, then you could file a motion with the court to dismiss it and it didn't matter if it was a bad check or a first degree murder. The judge had no discretion in that. And sometimes it gets kind of silly because the prosecutor would sometimes just count wrong and misunderstand when the 180th day was. That's changed now, it's still pretty rigid though because it's 175 days and then there's a window that the defendant must request the trial and then they've got a couple of weeks to bring the person to trial, but then it would be dismissed.   Don West: Unlike other states, for example, well North Carolina is one where there really isn't any state speedy trial, so people can wait weeks or months to go to trial and not have any specific provision that guides that. Other States, when I talked to lawyers around the country, always seem to tell me a different story how their speedy trials worked and that's not to be confused -- I won't go on too much longer -- not to be confused with the statute of limitations. So the statute of limitations is basically how long the prosecuting authority can wait between the incident and the prosecution. That's typically measured in years. In most jurisdictions, a felony would be maybe four or five years, statute of limitations. And in some cases, cases that you and I have worked on, there is no statute of limitations on in most places for murder for example.   Shawn Vincent: Which means there could be some defender who was involved in the self-defense incident and the police decide not the charge for some reason, but he's never explicitly exonerated, so he lives his life month after month, potentially year after year, with this specter that a prosecution could happen at some point.   Don West: Yeah, a lot of those cases just kind of hang out there because there is no statute of limitations, the prosecutor doesn't have to finally decide and frankly there's pretty good reason in some cases, not the ones we're talking about, but we know all those cold cases, right? Technology changes. There are people that committed murder 30 years ago that are now being successfully prosecuted because of DNA and these genetic databases and things that. . .   Shawn Vincent: The Golden Gate Killer.   Don West: Yeah, there you go. They're able to identify people there was simply not enough reliable evidence on before.   Shawn Vincent: I bring that up, because one of the, you talked about the next fight, right? One of the points of our discretion and our podcast is to help the members understand just what comes or what can come after a self defense shooting. And what we'd like to think is that the cops show up, they look around and say, "Oh yeah, he was trying to break into your house. Congratulations on being a great citizen. You're fine." And life goes on. But that's hardly ever the case. They're going to come, they're going to treat it as a homicide. Sometimes they clear these pretty quickly, other times they don't. And then the defender's left in this limbo for days, weeks, months, years sometimes. Usually an arrest comes within days or weeks, but not always. And then there's, depending on where you live, different speedy trial clock, your lawyer will probably opt to voluntarily to spend that to take the time they want to get the experts they need to. . .   Don West: Yeah. In most circumstances, if there's a rigid speedy trial rule, it can be waived or told because of something that the defense wants to do to get expert review of evidence or that sort of more investigation.   Shawn Vincent: That's why you have a year or two before you get the trial.   Don West: Yeah. You know your point is . . . I've personally been involved in a case that's now a year and a half old and there's been no prosecution to note, no clear evidence that there ever will be, but there's been no absolute dismissal with prejudice. You know we talked about with prejudice if the case is dismissed with prejudice. . .   Shawn Vincent: There's no deep sigh of relief for this guy.   Don West: No, and then there's another case I'm personally involved in that is almost four years now since the incident and once again, well there's no interest apparently in prosecuting, and the longer the time passes I think the more comfort one can take that there won't be, but there's no guarantee that it won't be picked up at some point in time.   Don West: Now this is not the kind of case where DNA and advances and forensics are likely to change the shift. It's a self-defense case and I think the facts are pretty well known and we can be confident because no charges were filed, that it was thoroughly assessed and an intelligent and informed decision was made. But no guarantee that, who knows? You know that's how, frankly, you hear cases all the time where after five years or 10 years, a suspect in a case, in the traditional typical kind of murder case where they can't prove who did it, they know it was a murder. It's clear that it was a criminal murder, but they don't know for sure who did it or the suspect. There's just not enough evidence. There'll be a statement made, there'll be new forensic evidence or something that will connect the dots and all of a sudden there.   Shawn Vincent: There's a case. So this guy Farr, he had sort of a, the case was dismissed at one point. There are several months, then it was reasserted. The reporting kind of goes cold on this. At one point there's going to be a trial in December. I don't think that trial happens. I couldn't find any reports on it, so it was continued or the likely case of it or dismissed. But that guy spent a long time and wondering what was going to happen to him. And a lot of that has to do with some of the choices he made during this. Well, I guess there's, there's one critical choice here. If we're going to talk about the lessons learned from the case and that is he chose to fire against the intruder before the intruder had gained access to his house. This is, we were talking about the enemy at the gates.   We talked just earlier today about a guy who went out to meet an intruder in his yard. We've talked about the Ted Wafer case where he opened the door to the intruder on the porch. We talked about a similar case where a guy had two people breaking into his house. He knew who they were. He knew they were there to get them and he fired through the door and killed both of them. He was found justified probably because he knew once he got into the house, he knew what their intent was.   Don West: And he was outnumbered and apparently the police were pretty satisfied that was good. That was true.   Shawn Vincent: But our general advice was you probably should never shoot through a closed, locked door. We talked about a case in Cincinnati where this mother of five, her abusive ex boyfriend came, was raging on the front yard and trying to get in, and he finally pulled out the air conditioner, the window unit, and it was only then when he tried to get into the window unit that she fired and ended up wounding him and just disabling him. She was clearly justified, but it was that moment when that threshold was to be crossed. The breach had been made and Farr shoots before that moment.   Don West: So we touched upon this in our conversation, this notion of prosecutorial discretion, the discretion that a prosecutor has in any criminal case, but I think especially in these kinds of cases. If they don't have clear marching orders from above that they always do something when these these things are present and the prosecutor's going to, after looking at the case package, you want to talk to law enforcement, they may reach out independently to talk to witnesses. They have the authority to do that. Of course, they have the benefit of the forensic reports. A lot of them the police don't have, at least not at first and they can sort of piece this together. They will scrutinize and scrutinize and dissect and turn inside and out any statement that the accused made, the shooter made, to see if it matches up with other witness statements, but I think maybe most importantly if it matches up with the physical evidence. They'll take a look at gunshot residue, trajectory. In this case they might very well look at the door jamb. Was there damage to the door jamb? What kind of door was it? Is it steel or is it thin wood that could be easily smashed down?   Shawn Vincent: Right, in Ted Wafer they brought in the screen door that was between him and Renisha McBride to try to decide what damage was caused by her that night.   Don West: Sure, and they can do this in the comfort of their office with the quiet and a time to reflect. Nothing like the decisions that were made of course at the scene.   Shawn Vincent: Yeah, the life or death imminent decisions.   Don West: They'll take a look at his statement when he said, "My daughter was there in between me and the door." And see if that really holds water. How old was she? Could he have said to her, get out of the way. Come here, go upstairs. Could he have done anything to have increased her safety before he used it as a justification for shooting through the door? He said, as I recall, that he could see the face of the sailor through the window in the door and that he was yelling at him and showed him the gun and one would think just logically, the prosecutor certainly will think this through, it's not a home invasion robbery. It's not somebody bursting into your house to hold you at gunpoint to steal things from you typically, if they bang on the door and yell and want you to come open the door. They may be crazy. They may be drunk, but it's not likely that they're part of a home invasion team.   Shawn Vincent: If it's a home invasion robber, they'll knock and say, "Hey everybody, we're here to rob you. We're going to barge in 10 seconds."   Don West: "Please open your door."   Shawn Vincent: "Get ready for us. Get your shotgun ready." And yeah.   Don West: There apparently wasn't any clear attempt to kick the door in. I'm sure that would have been mentioned if there'd been evidence to show that. So even though Mr. Farr had seconds to make these decisions, they're going to be looked at over the course of days and weeks and months, in this case a number of months. Speedy trial and then refiled. And there may be some critical evidentiary aspects. There may be some part of his story that doesn't fit some of the other known facts and they're really wrestling with how to go forward. The prosecutor has to feel bad for this guy, probably doesn't want to prosecute him. Hawaii, I don't think, necessarily, is the best state to be in when you're dealing with the. . .   Shawn Vincent: As a defender. Yeah.   Don West: You've got all that stuff.   Shawn Vincent: And the fact that he didn't legally own the weapon he used -- it doesn't help.   Don West: Does not help.   Shawn Vincent: We talked about how they're mutually exclusive charges, but it doesn't make his judgment in the self-defense case look better.   Don West: And the fact of who you kill really shouldn't factor in either. Every life is worth the same, I guess would be the statement. But as a practical circumstance, he killed a 41 year old Navy veteran . . .   Shawn Vincent: Active service.   Don West: Who was about to ship off, who was serving his country, who was just blowing off a little steam before he headed out to protect us.   Shawn Vincent: Freedom and democracy.   Don West: Yeah. And that's very compelling and makes it even more tragic.   Shawn Vincent: And the victims have an influence on the prosecutors, don't they?   Don West: Sure.   Shawn Vincent: I mean the prosecutors make their decisions, but if it's the Navy saying, "We want you to get this guy." I'm not saying that they said that in this case, we don't know. But if it's a compelling -- the victim has somebody, an uncle in law enforcement and he has some sway -- they're sensitive. They're advocates for the victims.   Don West: They are, and the family of the victim, frankly, as you know, it sounds kind of crude almost, but how much noise the family of the deceased makes can impact how the decisions are made and the prosecution. Are there legions of people in protests or are the family members that are really focusing the attention on this case and maybe the media attention as well?   Shawn Vincent: You saw that in Ted Wafer too that the family was out there protesting every day until they finally filed charges.   Don West: And I know there are some cases, you and I have been involved in them, where the prosecutor's feeling so much heat, even when they think they probably don't want to file criminal charges, they either do anyway, which is sort of succumbing to the political stuff or in a lot of jurisdictions, even when they don't have to, they'll punt and put the case before the grand jury. I've seen that several times where the prosecutor has the authority to file the charges, but they decide it's kind of a hot potato.   Shawn Vincent: Like Ferguson.   Don West: Sure.   Shawn Vincent: Ferguson, Missouri where the kid shot the cop.   Don West: Other way around.   Shawn Vincent: Yeah, the cop shot the kid, right. I think the prosecutor wanted to null pross that, but he sent it to the grand jury.   Don West: And the grand jury cleared, and it's still controversial. So there are those cases where the prosecutors under lots of pressure from any number of angles and that's assuming true motives. You still never know when there's a political pressure somewhere because the boss wants to get reelected or you want to run for office as a prosecutor and in a close call you may make the personal choice. Who knows. I'm not . . .   Shawn Vincent: Suggesting that any of that's happening here, but it's funny it’s been dismissed and then reappointed.   Don West: Yeah. But this is another one of those examples of just a tragic outcome and we spend so much time and we wring our hands. Could something have happened that would have changed the course of this, either for the homeowner, frankly, for the deceased. It was what it was. He was just drunk and out of his mind a little bit and confused. And the homeowner . . .   Shawn Vincent: Well, we've talked before about this window of justification, that the window opens and it closes and it's only in this very specific frame work of time where use of force is justified. And we've seen cases where they fire a little bit too soon. This is one of those cases. It very well could have been 30 seconds from then the door splinters, the glass breaks, and all of a sudden now the windows open, literally opens, and then we've seen cases where like in the pharmacist's case where the perpetrator leaves and there's a final shot after the fact. Once the threat was neutralized.   Don West: That's like the person in Oklahoma city where there are shots fired after the robber is incapacitated.   Shawn Vincent: That's right.   Don West: And that's clearly viewed by the prosecutor, a guy who was viewed as sort of the hero initially by the media for stopping these armed robbers, winds up getting prosecuted and convicted of murder for shooting the robber after the robber was already down.   Shawn Vincent: Yeah. And so I think you have a case here, a guy who was almost justified and he's facing prosecution because he fired too soon. And the lesson I take from it is if I ever find myself in that circumstance, I want to be thinking about that window. If someone's calling 9-1-1, I'm thinking tactically. Where am I? There's where my daughter is. Has the window opened yet? Is that threat imminent and what would it take for that threat to be imminent? And hopefully I'll have the peace of mind, state of mind and the judgment to wait for them. But that's like I said at the beginning -- we talked about tone -- is why I get so passionate about these cases, because I can see myself there and how seconds can make the difference.   Don West: Obviously easier said than done. You would think, well the daughter goes upstairs, he retreats further up the steps maybe with still a view of the door and the gun ready and if he comes through the door and still seems to be aggressive, maybe that's a better time. It certainly would be much more justifiable when a prosecutor is sitting in the easy chair trying to decide whether to prosecute this guy or not.   Shawn Vincent: Yeah, tough case.   Don West: This is one of those as so many of them we talk about that we know they're awful, they're absolutely awful, but are they lawful? And this is one that may very well be awful but lawful, but the fact that he's being prosecuted suggests that there are at least some of the authorities believed that he had other decisions he could have made, and that the decision he made to fire the gun, to take life as a consequence of it were simply not supportable under the law of self-defense.

Alex: Hello, my friends in financial services welcome back to the podcast this week I've got an equity release advisor. And wow, we've talked about loads of stuff, loads of tips from Stuart probably more tips per minute than you get from your marketing expert. And so I think one thing for us as a business when we've helped people advertise equity release is a lot of negative kinds of thoughts and opinions of how things were done before a lot of people that are in situations or heard of people in situations that are not good because of equity release. And I've seen Stewart sort of on a bit of a mission to try and he's very passionate about getting this message across that modern equity release is much better. There's just so much in this episode of like how to negotiate with the press. We talk a lot about videos. So Stuart messaged me and emailed me in June about videos and him starting that video journey. We talk a lot about that. It's just such an interesting story about partnerships as well about how to focus on marketing to get partnerships not just to get cold leads. So whether you do mortgages, life equity release, or don't even work in financial services, there's so much you can get out of this episode from a marketing perspective. So, I want to introduce you to Stuart. How is an equity release at fly advisor in Plymouth used to work in banking used to work in Debenhams went out on his own after sort of a long corporate career and it's really fascinating to see where he is at now. Hello, and welcome back to the lead generation for financial services podcast and I've got a very special guest on today. I have got Mr Stuart Powell. How are you doing today?Stuart: Hi, how are you? I’m very good. Thank you mate. Thanks for setting this up. Be nice to have a chat. Alex: Yeah, no, absolutely. I was just well, we just before we hit record, I was just pulling out an old email that you sent me and I couldn't remember the date of it. And I think I sent you an email on kind of pop my sort of email sequence about doing videos. In fact, I think it's Yeah, it's entitled, you have to make bad videos to make good videos.Stuart: Yeah.Alex: He said, you've inspired me after listening to this podcast. We now have a YouTube video and four videos on equity release. Stuart: Yeah, yes. Take a look. Give me some feedback. Alex: So that was June 2019. We're now January 2020. So what six months ago and now I'm seeing the videos that you're doing now and you've got like you see you're not hiring in a sort of production crew and things like what it looks like.Stuart: Oh, yeah, we got producers, directors, actors, we've got that now. Yeah, you know, I think where we were with the business around June and your podcast on, you know, try it. If it goes badly, that's good because you learn a lot and the rule and this is exactly what people want to see. So I think to start with Sammy, my office manager and I were at probably a simply biz seminar down in Cornwall somewhere and we were on a break, and we were just playing around with the laptop of mom now actually, and just recording a couple of videos out in the sunshine in their garden, and just talking about equity release and she was interviewing me and we were playing around and they were good enough to release but they kind of inspired me to give it more of a go and then I listened to your podcast and yeah, don't worry about it. If it's bad, just start somewhere. So yeah, I went into the office. Did I think about a five-minute video? And it got really good feedback even though it was grainy and wobbly but yeah, that's where it started. Yeah, June last year. Alex: Yeah. Wow. Okay. It's great. I love it because like, well, the thing is with having podcasts you don't get more ratio of feedback to listeners is very different to anything else. Because like on a podcast, there's no natural place to comment or anything. People have to take the time out to send you a message. So like when you're putting videos on YouTube is easy to comment and you put posts on Facebook, it's easy to come up with a podcast, there's nowhere to comment. So I only get the old kind of message pin when people do actually reach out and it normally is because they've done something so it's always like, brilliant to hear that something that we've done has kind of affected someone else. So it was really.Stuart: Yeah, no, that's good. I sent you a quick message to say thanks you've inspired me. Yeah, but I watched it and got some feedback on it. And I think the feedback was great. I love what you're doing not enough people are talking about equity release. Not enough people are trying to educate both clients or potential clients or other introduces as to why it's good for the older generation, but also why it's good for other financial services businesses to understand a little bit more about it. And I went online and went on YouTube and there's no one really being real online about equity release other than being lossy companies who and millions on production or they've got their remember to morph Sony heart and all that they.Alex: Oh yeah.Stuart: They've got those types of videos which are great. So I decided to probably shorten the videos a little bit. Because the feedback was great, I really like what you're talking about. But it's too much information in a five-minute video, why not 1-minute videos. So, so yeah, I thought, right, let's break them down and literally put something out on LinkedIn. were based in Plymouth. So put something on LinkedIn, then you will know any good videographers. And a guy called Luke Strata was recommended a couple of times and he and I met he came in the office and wow, what a setter. I mean, the cost wasn't too bad at all. But the camera equipment I know you've seen it on some of our LinkedIn vids. It looks like yeah, so being in next Hollywood blockbuster, this coffee breaks a lot.Alex: And if you're in a restaurant or a cafe and I was at Stewart's house, and they were at the tables, that's definitely a restaurant or a cafe or something. I was like, I'm in the wrong game from and if you can get a house like that.Stuart: Equity release, and you're fortunate And I know that you know that we're very near the home, which is the beautiful see parts of glimmer, the office and we go down there for a coffee sometimes and of course we're OSHA mortgages notion act to release and the cafes overlooks the ocean and you know in my brain it made sense but the cafe owner said yeah, yeah come down for the morning and then you know just to make sure you have some tea coffee and bacon buses and you can have the room for free and you know, he asked me about the buses I'm honest. Luke and I went down there Luke set up first and I came in and oh my god, he has taken over, probably half that blooming cafe. And yeah, it didn't seem like a great idea at the time I took the dog down and I don't you've seen the first video but the dogs and James Bond villain stroking the dog up on my lap. I read two minutes before the video started to shit right. So in the cafe as yes and customers are coming in for breakfast so yeah. Not quite as glamorous.Alex: Yeah.Stuart: Oh then a storm came so we were filming with the storm in the background so the beautiful ocean waves were quite as I expected but you know you laminate and you've got to do better to do it well.Alex: Well, that's brilliant. I love that so much has happened to me so much to actually put you off doing it and make it harder to work with it. Let it go baby is still peeling off and I've just found my replies to you because I yeah, I think I said yeah, so one thing I think I said was like, Don't worry about you don't need an excuse to make the video I think I was like, I think a lot of people do that they sort of when you're first doing videos, you feel natural. You need to explain why during the video. Yeah. I remember saying that as well. And then yeah, I think I said splitting it up into smaller, smaller ones. Stuart: Yeah, great. Alex: Yeah.Stuart: It was fine because the first step videos were very much okay. The clients out there don't understand about equity release. So let's tell them what the process is. Let's tell them why modern equity release is better than the old equity release. Let's tell them you know, the interest rates are lower than they've ever been. Let's tell them there's no negative equity guarantee on just about every product out there. So, you know, there's a real fear in my world is about equity release. So let's dispel some of the untruths. Let's tell people what the process actually is. And let's try and be a little bit more accessible. There are some really big companies out there doing equity release, you know, you have Vivos, Liverpool, Victoria, and there are some huge broker firms. I think the more local the more family-based business, such as ours is where local older people want to be where they want to be, you know, they want the products they want their people to be from where they're from, and understand a little bit about them and their world. Does that make sense?Alex: Yeah, no, that's exactly what we found when we've cuz we've run some x release ad campaigns on Facebook. Yeah. We've found when we've advertised the advisor, rather than a brand, and we've made it very personal, they work really well. And the cost per lead is slightly higher than what you typically get with mortgages. Yeah, we brought that down a bit. But the quality when that comes through when we're advertising the person. What we have found, though, like, you rightly say, a lot of fear, like every ad campaign, we've put out, there'll be loads of people saying this is a scam. Yeah, many of them and we don't, a lot of our clients aren't where we're trying to get. We're creating written content to dispel the myths but a lot of them don't want to do video. It would be great if we had with each comment rather than having to hide it. We could put a link out Oh, actually, if you check this, you can see the difference between what you think and what it actually is.Stuart: Yeah, you know, we played around with some men, we did some Facebook marketing last year and yes, absolutely right. The feedback you get is, you know, it's quite vitriolic. They don't hold back. But I was doing it to get that over the phone, but we've just experimented with it. And they kept deleting the comments and I'm like, No, no, no, no. If this is the comments we're getting, we need to address them. So I took over replying to the office as a scam or that you used to get things like oh, my dad took out 70,000 pounds and now he owes 180,000. And I remember one specifically who'd said but you know, you don't know the backstory, so it could have been his house was repossessed. So we need 70,000 pounds. Therefore 70,000 pounds is a great investment to keep your property or the other thing, and actually, this is what I found now, he has taken it out seven years ago, and the interest rate was 8%. So what actually happened there at the time, it may have been the right thing, but now it's not that a huge part of our education is well, we need to review it. You know, I was looking at stats the other day, and it's about 40% of the public are on a standard variable rate for their mortgage for equity release, 92% of the public have never reviewed their rates. Well, that guy went back to and said look really sorry to hear but the interest is accelerated so much more neck to release lets you pay some of the interest, all of the interest and the interest rates start from 2.8%. Why don't we review that and we reviewed it and got an array of just over 3%? So bring your critics on it. It was brilliant. Because of how many people read that?Alex: Yeah, fantastic. Stuart: Yeah, very not so much. And we try to use those case studies because that's the thing. It's, you know when we're talking about rates, when we're talking about the non-equity release being x, y, and Zed, it doesn't really mean a lot to people. But when we're saying this client came to us on an 8% interest rate, we managed to do it for three. This is how much money he saved each month, or this is how much less the interest is accruing by so. So yeah, definitely the case studies would be a tip I'd give any equity release advisors out there, you know, make it real. Use the examples you are doing for clients because that's what people want to see.Alex: That's amazing. I think you may have single-handedly helped, as I was gonna say, millions of people who don't have lots of light bulbs. Go Often in my brain, I'm sure and you're on it but I know we get a few people listening to the do equity release as well that are thinking Actually, I can use and you do well that's made me think of randomly. Have you ever seen suits theStuart: Yeah, Meghan Markel and all that.Alex: Yes. And it just reminded me of Harvey spectre saying when there's a gun pointed at you, you turn it around and you've turned that negative feedback into a positive by going into a colour, no-win situation of someone slagging you off on Facebook, into a new client, you've literally acted them, ensure.Stuart: It's good to do and you know, it's quite good for the soul because if you're putting yourself out there in any context, we started off talking about videos, but this is Facebook advertising yourself out there and people are actually not slacking off your company as such. But then you're in and you know, my Facebook has got all my friends on my family on and if people are actually seeing The industry I'm in, it's got a bad reputation, then that tells what I do. So I want people to understand the passion I have for actually getting people to understand that modern equity release actually is a very far cry from where it was five years ago, and actually is the right thing for a lot of people. It's not the right thing for a lot of people as well. Yes, they need to approach us so that we can, you know, with full integrity, sit down with them and go, actually, it is right for you, or Actually, no, let's phone your lender and just renegotiate your deal. You know, we've done that for a couple of clients where we'll come into the office, we'll look at release, and you know, they're in their late 50s. And I'm like, well, no equity release can't be right for you at your age, because we don't want to pay the interest and the amount you're learning when you get to the age you're probably going to get to is a huge chunk of the likely value of your property. So let's speak to your life. And see if they will let you continue on your interest-only mortgage, let's be about other options for you. And if none of those options work, actually, equity release might be right for you. But it has to be right for the person at the time, the wise people and says, actually, I think equity release might be suitable for you, but in five years, but in five to 10 years, so let's stay in touch over the next few years and see if your position changes. So I think integrity has to be a huge part of it, which is why we've got to get out there and talk to more people.Alex: Yeah, absolutely. I think just linking this back to video so if I put myself in. So my mom is 70.Stuart: Yeah.Alex: She wasn't elite mortgage-free debt-free. If she wasn't, and I am. I worked in a different industry and I didn't know about equity release, and I didn't know about any sort of financial services like that. I would be worried about my mom at her age sitting down with any kind of financial advisor without me being there? Yeah, because they watched too much rogue traders and stuff like that and you're very protective over your parents. So linking this back to Vivio I think the great thing about video for me, if I was looking at it for her, and I saw you doing all these videos and you come across the way you do, I would feel much more confident picking up the phone to you and saying, Can you sit down with my mom and talk to her about it? Because I've got to know you a little bit and like you say, integrity, and trust.Stuart: Yeah.Alex: Really, really important for me and I think there's a lot of people who are like me.Stuart: I totally agree. And, you know, I can hear myself saying this to clients and I've said it's a mom, dad that five years ago, I wouldn't have done equity release for my mom and dad. Today without a doubt. In fact, we're talking about at the moment I would get mum and dad to do it. And if someone can say that they would advise their parents to do something like, I think that's hugely rare of how they feel about it. And yeah, you're right that the videos do help because people see you, people get to know you a little bit and it's only a little bit isn't it because it's a one minute, but they see you, they see you with the dog, they see your family business, and that does grow some confidence. And we, you know, but it's only one part of many, I would say, you know, our reviews are fundamental to us. Both have good reviews and are vouched for and vouch for, I think a brilliant company, who have really helped our business grow with their reviews and the way they do things. I also think if you're looking for an equity release advisor for your family, or for you, your business to work with Got to be by referral. So who would someone recommend? And you know, are they a good company ethically? And that's tricky to work out. And are they a member of the equity release council? That's the one that I would look at, you know, the equity release Council have standards for our industry. If an advisor or a company is part of that to release counsel, actually, they're taking steps to almost certificate how reliable they are. So yeah, videos are important, Alex, but I think, as a part of several other issues that people should consider.Alex: Absolutely. Do you think the equity release counts or do enough to make people aware that they as a body should be you know, they are that stamp of authority because you go to a website and you see that there but I think a lot of consumers may not know what that means. Stuart: Excellent question. I had this conversation with the equity release Council, probably about six months ago, I was in contact with the chairman, the CEO and the marketing department. And it was good. I'd made the videos. And then I thought, well, let's connect to the risk councils website, see what videos they got? And check. No, no joking at all. I think the most up to date video was from 2016. And maybe 2017. I think they modernized recently and went to the marketing department. I said, Look, I don't understand. And we are trying to get across to people how modern equity release has changed how the products for everyone out there. But your videos are just not up to date. I've made some videos, how about I send them to you. And you have a look, why not use them on your website. And they've used to, I should have told you. Sorry, I haven't told you that.Alex: I think I mentioned something about the equity release count. So like you said, I got a mention in a blog or something. Stuart: They put two of the videos on their website and we've set up a YouTube channel with all of our videos and they learn this but I completely understand if they can't be seen to be promoting one company. And you know, my argument to that was no, I don't want you to. I want you to show the equity release advisers out there, what is possible, you make videos, and make them interesting, make them popular, and we'll publish yours too. They started off with it's become my famous video now. It's the Wendy Bohunan video and it's a lovely lady from Plymouth who first got in contact with me last year, who and she'd seen an advert I put up a local glossy Plymouth magazine that goes up to about $40,000 And she'd seen it and she saw the family. The family photo as I call it. My wife sent me the office manager and the dog and then said I'll, you know, bulk bloke with glasses looks like a nice chap. They think I'll get him around. So I wrote around to see her and she was in a bit of a safe state. That was a horrible phrase, but she was suffering and her son was bringing her food parcels. She told me, she was wearing a 199 Oxfam dress, or someone's bringing her food parcels each week and a half, pretty dilapidated, and she got a call while I was there, from someone chasing her for money. Fast forward six months. I went to see her just before Christmas, and she was wearing a nice outfit. She now treats herself to Marks and Spencers once a week her son doesn't bring food parcels. The property has had some improvements and she no longer gets phone calls from people. Because she took out equity release, that is it's mental health has improved as well, that is a kind of rags to riches story for me because it's real. And she blesses her. She was recorded by the local paper who got hold of the story and she gave a one-minute explanation of what had happened and it was super Android equity release council saw this and said we want to use that Stuart, it's, it's a great story as to how to release can help people in the right situation. So you have to cancel since then. I've opened up this to equity release advisors. So if you are an extreme supervisor and produce some good video footage or a good blog, they couldn't have it on that site. So yeah, a good little tip there.Alex: Lovely, brilliant. Perfect. So I want to find out the kind of like because you were we've been talking off the air, we were kind of mentioning your sort of retail background, and then you've done you were sort of your last sort of employee job was with Santander. Is that right?Stuart: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Yeah. I spent seven years straight from uni with deponents. And loved it there. Yeah. through the various management roles. You know that a lot about people and service, then, yeah, just happened to get into banking and was doing branch management and mortgage supervisor roles, regional mortgage manager roles. And, and then actually, I thought I could do this and I could do it as a business and there are so many marketing things that I want to do that a big corporation looks at and goes, it's not really the brand is not really what we want to do. It's not really where we want to go and I thought, well, actually, a good friend of mine owned financial investment companies. Short financial planning. And I said to him, Look, you don't have any mortgages. And I know you don't want to do mortgages, how about I have a room in your lovely offices, and I start a mortgage company, you helped me by being my supervisor. And then we came from there. And that was, what, two and a half years ago. And last year, it changed and we wanted to rebrand. We felt that we were growing to such a size that we saw the alarm in the background. Really, we thought, yeah, it's time to go out on our own. I bought his shares off him. Then we rebranded the company in January last year, and have a look back we went directly authorized and the big thing has been all the marketing we do all the branding we do is up to us. We've got no one saying oh, no, that's not what we want to do. That's not how we want to do it. We would play in our own funnel. And, and that's really, really how we want to do things. So, yeah, as a great step for me. And as I look back on it, we're sort of done 10 years before. So yeah.Alex: Was it scary?Stuart: Hell yeah. Yeah. Because you go from a decent salary to knowing money is coming in. And I know, a lot of advisors out there. I've done similar and it is scary. My wife had to work a lot of hours to pay the bills, and what it's like there's a pipeline for business and it takes two-three months to come in. So yeah, the early days were scary. But then we grew as having a reputation. But we started off as a mortgage company, Alex, residential is only and we started getting more and more equity released inquiries, and I've done the exams. And I thought I love this. I love how life-changing equity releases. And it's a booming business. And it's a niche. So all of those things made me think, actually that's the direction I want the business to go.Alex: Yeah, fantastic. And what's the kind of the plans for the future then are you kind of thinking about this? I'm happy to sort of, as far as we are or want more advisors or you know, want to go national or want to keep it local? what's kind of in your Have you thought about it? Because we're sort of about a year over sort of Christmas. I was thinking about the next year, what you know, future and things like that.Stuart: Yeah, very much. So I think, probably about six months ago. I thought, right. Okay. So, and you notice like you get anyone gets to a stage with a business that actually this business takes over nicely. I do the things that I want, I can pick the kids up, I can drop them at school. I don't have to work weekends but don't want to or we can go to the next level. I think because I've started collaborating with a lot of businesses around the country. We've got some good institutions in London, Oxford, Bournemouth, Basingstoke, new Bri, actually, we want to expand the business. I want to be out there more and meeting new introduces. So we've got two new advisors who actually are just going through their CMPA now. They've got a week away in Bristol next week doing what the week after, and then they've got two months gap, and then they've got another week in Southampton. I think the second one is.Alex: Okay.Stuart: So yeah, we'll have three of us advisors, recruiting additional admin, but we want to grow organically. So one of the advisors has been our office manager, so that's Sammy, and other ones my wife, so it's still keeping it a very close-knit family business. Because, as I'm sure everyone out there knows, recruitment is really difficult. Getting the right person that fits in your ethos in your model in your business, given the service that you give is very difficult. Whether we go that way in the future, I don't know. But it's interesting because I've just been working on this in the last couple of weeks. What do we want the business to represent in 2020? Well, we want to continue the education we're doing around equity release. We want to continue the collaboration we're doing with Well, we've got solicitors, we've got accountants, we've got mortgage brokers, we've even got equity release advisers who don't really like doing it to lease sending us business and with commission sharing with them. Because you know, if you've got a mortgage business and your equity release qualified, but you don't do many equity releases, it's difficult to actually sit down with Brian, and go, these are your options because you're not up to speed with it. It's fast-moving, so yeah, we're working with groups like that. And that's what I want my role to be going forward. But last year, our best things we did were the things where we went to events, we ran events with our introduces with our partners. And I'll give a couple of examples. So far this year, we've got fine dining experience. We've got a gin tasting event, and we're going to horse racing, we're going to eat now but races and then they help for our partners and are introduced as where we say, thank you. We say thank you for introducing that business to us last year. And don't forget us this year. Because for us, having fun at work is really important. You know, in the past, I've had mental health issues and I've struggled getting up. So the balance of business is really important to me. So yeah that's what 2020 looks like.Alex: fantastically you have me at gin tasting I am I'm a huge draw to know what my may want to know my knees or regulation is.Stuart: Come on. Alex: Find a gene that I like more than sip Smith.Stuart: What's it called?Alex: Sip SmithStuart: I'm actually writing this down what flavour?Alex: Well it's like a London dry gin. There's nothing fancy about it. Stuart: Yeah. Alex: Every gin that I try. Alex: Yeah.Stuart: It's like it's good, but it's not quite. So my solution is to find a gene that I like better than sip Smith.Alex: Oh, you have to try and then do a lemon drizzle lemonade just have the normal the green one. It's got a swan on it. I'm on like, it's one of the gin is on my things like I'm I think I'm known for having beard glasses. Loving and drinking gin is like the key thingsStuart: So I've just written down green with swan. So.Alex: Yeah, I'm after that. Well, if you love Sip Man, then you'd have enjoyed the research that I was doing last week of places in Devon, that have good gin events. And one of them and I'm not making this up, we've got the National Marine Aquarium in clover. Alex: Right.Stuart: They got an event coming up in a few Saturdays time called Gins with Finn. I'm honestly not making that up. They somehow have managed to get the National Marine Aquarium and the gym company together, and they didn't know what to call it. So it's an evening event where they've got a company with several different gyms and obviously the sharks and the various animals they've got in the tanks are the fins. So yeah, you might have to come up with four gins with fins, Alex.Alex: Well, the other thing I love is a good pun. I absolutely love it. So that sounds like it. My event well it's a full house.Stuart: Yeah.Alex: Oh, my so I'm gonna touch for a second I'm not gonna pass away this year but my funeral should be called gin's event.Stuart: Yeah. People will be pleased to hear we've actually decided against that one as Baba has 143 different gins and now teaches you how to make them and part of the event is you get your first three as part of the deal. So yeah, I think we've got. I think 12 of our introducers and partners come into that one. So yeah, it's all part of it. It's yeah, enjoy business, enjoy collaborating and let's make up days fun, I think is the key.Alex: Absolutely. Well, we've got a I was just looking at my podcast schedule and there was a guy we recorded with Adam King who, so when yours goes live, his would have already been on the thing he talks about is partnerships. That is massive for him so yeah it just makes sense doesn't it getting those right partnerships where it's kind of a win-win for you and for them even like you say people that are qualified in an equity release but do it as an add on? Stuart: Yeah, absolutely. Alex: Getting with the right people and yeah, and the thing coming like bringing it back to the video that is building rapport but it's meeting people in person builds rapport more than ever. Giving them free Jin builds a lot more report is all about for me like relationships are like having a good life. I just think I like doing business with people that I like.Stuart: Yeah.Alex: So and then doing like videos is getting to know them a little bit first, but then that's why we do our events in peace where I can meet a lot of people that listen to the podcast and things like that, and then that builds our relationship. Even more. And that's just the same across any business especially I think if you're giving financial advice. Stuart: It is a nail on the head, I think. Yeah, the videos when we started them in June and then through July and August, we released one a week of a series of educational ones and the ones we just started releasing all the why, as a sister, accountant, mortgage broker, etc. Should you work with us? So yeah, the second one will come out this week, and then we're doing them weekly. But the last set of videos, actually, yeah, you've just made me think of a guy contacted me on LinkedIn and said, I want to collaborate with you. You know, you could really do a lot of equity release. You see a lot of clients. I haven't got the confidence to do it at the moment. So yeah, can you see my client will like I'm sending them completed on Monday, the client completed on Monday and I'm sending him a check for just over 6,000 pounds this week, but actually check is so 1980s However I send him the funds as soon as I received them. So yeah, that the collaboration thing can be lucrative and he hasn't done any of the work or taken any of the risks on that, other than he has a good relationship with the client who now has helped her three daughters out one was struggling with our business one was struggling to pay a mortgage. And the third one was just delighted that her two sisters were struggling. Now she wasn't obvious but the other way we'll be fair to divide the money equally three ways. So the third child got the same as the two others who really needed it. So yeah, it's a good story about how videos can lead to increased collaboration and how that can help a business because how does that guy who sent the client to me know how does his client feel about him now that we've helped her solve a problem. Exactly.Stuart: Exactly. Thank you so much for introducing me to Stuart. Exactly. It's brilliant. It is like it is a win-win. And so yeah, no, I think we spend a lot of time naturally in our businesses thinking I want to find new business myself, and when I'm on a market myself, just to get new business, but actually marketing to get collaborators and partnerships as well is, you know, coming massively.Stuart: Yeah, yeah. And it's something that I cottoned on to later on last year because any marketing you do for clients is actually hard work. And it needs to be very consistent. You need to do a lot of it. And finding the right niche is really tricky. Whether that is you know, because obviously, my niche is, well, probably age 65 to 75 owns my own property. But has a need for a lump sum or income, whether that be to improve their lives, whether it be to invite them, improve their family's lives, whether that be to reduce their inheritance tax liability, and they're perhaps not easy niches to find in a marketing campaign. But when you're collaborating with people who, you know will write as, as an example, whether they're a solicitor or just a will writer firm, one of the questions they ask someone when they're writing Well, do you own your own property? Oh, yes. And we're writers that say to me that the phrase we hear most is where asset rich but cash poor. And, you know, I know someone who may be able to help you with that. Let me introduce you to Stuart. And he can talk to you about being asset rich and a little bit less cash poor. So yeah, it's those collaborations and when someone finds a client for you, the relationship is virtually almost there. Alex: Yeah, exactly. Stuart: Whereas when you find the client, you have to build the relationship. So yeah, the collaboration pieces are where the future is Alex? It really is. That's a huge part of our business for 2020. And I would suggest for people out there, it should be part of this.Alex: You've been dropping value bombs all the way through this Stuart. Exactly. We've needed for 40 minutes. I can't believe it. Stuart: Wow. Alex: This is what I love. So the podcast, but amazing is nearly when it will be a year old by the time we published this.Stuart: Okay. Alex: We would have only had this conversation if I had started it. And what I love about talking to advisors is that I learn more from your perspective as well. But yes, you know, we only generally only do the marketing stuff we don't deal with the end consumer. So for me, I get loads of different ideas from, from having people like yourself on. So I've really enjoyed chatting with you. I love your enthusiasm for everything. It's really refreshing. Is there anything we haven't talked about? That could help anyone listening? Do you think?Stuart: Yeah, the only thing that I think that I was thinking about? Obviously you, you invited me to this last week and I'm thinking about well if I was listening to a podcast, what would I want to hear that we focused a lot on video and I think the video is, is kind of the symbol of what we as advisors need to do. And what I mean by that is, the video was try something outside of your box, or something out of your comfort zone. Well, in the last six months, I've been trying things out of my comfort zone, and things like contacting that journalist in the Daily Mail, who's done an article about your industry and saying really interested in your article? A couple of things that disagree with that data? How about you ask me for a comment next time. I'm going to the local press and saying, Okay, what do your readers know about equity release? What do they know about investments? Whatever your niche is, what do they know? They will try to get you to do an advertorial and pay for it. But yeah, maybe that's the right thing for you to do. That morial is how I've grown my business in Plymouth. I think my advertorial now a lot of the local newspapers are online as well. And one of the 2400 videos that I referenced earlier on that got over 6000 hits from people online. So yeah, it's trying things that are a little bit different, be open to ideas. The last one I'll say is next Saturday, I think it's the 25th we've got an advertorial appearing in The National paper in the times and national paper, and I would never have considered going national, even a year ago. But the company phoned me up. And obviously, it's a selling space advertising marketing company to say, you know, we've got a quarter-page advertorial. It's 8000 pounds. Okay, can I have two? No, no, no way. As you know, I'm a small business. There's no way we can afford anything like that. But I'm interested in the concept, talk to me about it. And he sent me the article. I hadn't looked at it. And then I said, 8000 ridiculous. And you had three and a half thousand. I said, Wow, there's a discount for you. And I said I'm really interested, when's the deadline? And he told me when the deadline was and I said, Well, I need to have a think about it. I need to have a chat with the directors on their new director. I need to have a think about it. And he came back to me: The date for deadlines ledger What are your thoughts? I said I want to do that. But what's your very best price? 1500 pounds we're going to 1.2 million homes I'm really scared now Alex. NET today because we were just trying things a little bit out of the box. We're prepared to negotiate, we want to build relationships. He wants us to advertise in the future. And I think Yeah, what's a 8,000, 1500 pound discount that's a pretty good discount so if you're out there and dealing with agencies and papers, kids sticking to your guns negotiate to be a bit cheeky and wow, you can find yourself in positions you possibly think it would be.Alex: That's fantastic, or you will have to let me know how that goes on LinkedIn because I will. I'll add it to the outro of because it will be by the time we get this published so that all you'll kind of know what's happened with our Stuart: Yes, yeah.Alex: We'll do it with a bit of time travelling. Stuart this has blown me away genuinely, the amount of value you've given. I'm really excited to get this live and share it with everyone. And it's been great to hear what 2019 has been viewed and I'm really excited to like, I don't want to wish my time away but I'm really excited to see where you are this time next year.Alex: Yeah, no it's gonna be exciting in May and yeah, I really appreciate you. You asked me to come on this because the value bombs thing I've never even heard of. But yeah, I like coming up with new ways of doing things. And I really enjoy sharing those ideas. Because, you know, we know active release advisors in this country is my enemy or my competition. The enemy in the competition is people who are saying that equity release isn't right for people and by us why it's right for people and as educated people, we will you know, what is that lovely phrase? A rising tide lifts all ships. And that is what we're trying to do here.Alex: Fantastic. Love it. Love it so much. So awesome way to end this, Stuart. I really appreciate your time. Let's definitely do this again next year if not in kind of six months.Stuart: Great.Alex: All right, Stuart. Thanks again.Stuart: Yeah, all right. Thanks again, mate.Alex: There we have it. That was my chat with Stuart, an absolutely great guy. He's the first equity release advisor to be featured on my new podcast, the equity release podcast, which will be out now as well. It's kind of out I'm recording this on the week of it launching. So by the time this is live, it will definitely be out. So check that out if you haven't already. And I will see you next time. And in fact, I'm recording this a bit early. And I'm a little bit worried about the outbreak of the coronavirus kind of outbreak affecting a lot of events. So as I record this now, our event is going ahead. And this should be published on the 23rd a couple of days before our event. So hopefully fingers crossed touchwood I'll see you in a couple of days if you come in. If, if it's not happening, and I haven't had the chance to re-edit this podcast episode, that's a bit confusing but hopefully I will be seeing you in a couple of days. See you there.

Jimi Wollumbin joins Mason on the show today to wax lyrical on all things microbe and virus related, very fitting considering the current climate and international lock down. Jimi is true renaissance man, who, over the last 20 years has had the opportunity to research and practice some of the most respected traditional medical systems on the planet, including the Chinese, Tibetan, Indian, Mongolian and Persian traditions. Jimi has also worked extensively in community health and international aid initiatives. These days Jimi's passion lays in the death and birth cycle of transformation. Jimi believes this is what the world needs on both an individual and global level. Jimi supports his clients through this transformational process at his Artemisia, his clinic based out of Northern NSW. "viruses are the medium of evolution, and they're distributed intelligent networks inside a massive big biosphere, which is Gaia, which is a huge supercomputer, single living organism that thinks, and responds, and computes really significantly. So we have to think of viruses in that context if we've got any hope of starting to approach what's happening at the moment, right?" - Jimi Wollumbin.   Mason and Jimi discuss: Crises as a part of the universal order. Disease as a factor driven by your individual belief system and lifestyle. Corona Virus. The role microbes play in the web of life. Drug resistant bacteria. Viruses as a distributed intelligence. Viral replication and eco harmony. The use of reductionist linear thinking in a nonlinear universe. The value of exploring ancient mythology when transforming your personal health culture. Traditional medicine and integrative thinking vs evidence based medicine. Using herbs as allies in healing vs using herbal medicine within the "pills for ills" ideology. Healing and the death/birth cycle of transformation. Who is Jimi Wollumbin ? Jimi Wollumbin is Doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine. Jimi is one of those rare individuals that is an expert in his field that also knows how to teach others. He has spoken at the United Nations, opened for Deepak Chopra and has even been personally insulted by the Dalai Lama. He teaches integrative doctors across America, sits on the faculty of the America Integrative Health and Medicine Association and is a lifetime member of the Tibetan Medical Institute's 'Friends of Tibetan Medicine'. After completing his internship in Chinese Medicine in TCM in Beijing hospital he has since completed 3 research exchanges at Ayurvedic hospitals in India, 2 with the Lama-physicians at the Tibetan Medical Institute, 1 with the Persian Hakims of the Unani Tibb Hippocratic tradition, 2 at the Trad-Med Department of the Mongolian National University in Ulaan Bataar and a 2019 trip through Siberia to research Shamanic medicine. Jimi’s original degree at the ANU was in philosophy and eastern religion which is why Dr Seroya Crouch describes him as ‘a philosopher of medicine’. He has written several books, none of which have been published, acclaimed or even read... yet. Jimi is the CEO and founder of One Health Organisation, a wellness-based charity that has distributed over 10 metric tonnes of herbs and supplements to 100 locations across 13 countries since 2005. Jimi brings passion and enthusiastic hand gestures to every conversation he is a part of.   Resources: Jimi's Website Jimi's Blog Jimi's Instagram   Q: How Can I Support The SuperFeast Podcast? A: Tell all your friends and family and share online! We’d also love it if you could subscribe and review this podcast on iTunes. Or  check us out on Stitcher :)! Plus  we're on Spotify!   Check Out The Transcript Here:   Mason:   (00:00) Jimi, thanks so much man.   Jimi Wollumbin:  (00:01) It's a pleasure.   Mason:  (00:02) Round two for us, first round for Superfeast podcast.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (00:05) Yeah, great. I'm looking forward to it. The last round was really exciting, and we went to all sorts of magnificent places.   Mason:  (00:11) Oh, and your inspiring clinic as well, which you're full time in now.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (00:15) That's right.   Mason:  (00:15)                    Okay.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (00:15) Yeah. At the base of Mount Warning in UK.   Mason:  (00:18) I've been following along. I mean, just before we kick on, I mean, there's not too many people anymore that I follow on Facebook, but I love every one of your posts.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (00:29) I'm very touched.   Mason:  (00:31) Got a lot of them saved. [crosstalk 00:00:32] a lot of them saved. So just go and find Jimi Wollumbin and follow him. We were talking about, you've gone and you've got a clinic, can you just tell everyone the nature of what you're offering there?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (00:48) What am I offering? I previously used to offer alternative and traditional medical services around acupuncture, and herbal medicine, and body work, and helping people get well, and now I help people die and be reborn. And so, if people are just looking to mitigate their symptoms, then I'm not necessarily the best practitioner anymore because I found that those symptoms, whatever it is that they're struggling with, are always an invitation into a larger process of transformation.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (01:25) And at an individual level and a global level what we require, in my book, is transformation. And so, yeah, the dying and reborn process of transformation is what I'm really passionate about out at Artemisia.   Mason:  (01:36) Well, I mean, because coming in off the bat, especially if you're coming in from a Western model, you're like, all right, well that's some pretty heavy language that's going on there. But when you get into a clinical process and when you get into the fact that, how many little deaths are going on within the body at every moment and just the transformation cycles that need to occur with your energy at all times, I mean, these are the things that, the bed of basically all energetic medicine and Taoist medicine that is just... Qi is just.. Energy is just transforming and changing as you go along.   Mason:  (02:11) And in order to really be reborn through those processes, you need to deal with it a very multidimensional level, and I think that's why the only appropriate thing to talk about is to die and be reborn. Right?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (02:24) Yeah. And just to make that understandable to the average person that might not have been engaging in this, is that 90% of our deaths and illnesses, 92-95 are chronic degenerative illnesses, right? And so that means they're lifestyle mediated. So you lived your way into your illness, but the lifestyle that you had is determined upon your beliefs. Right? And so you've got all these particular beliefs, I'm not lovable unless I work my ass off, I'm not safe unless I earn lots of money, something like this. So your belief structures determine your lifestyle and your lifestyle determines your diseases.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (03:01) And so those belief structures are really the viral memes, just to segue us towards the next conversation, that are giving rise to your symptoms. And it doesn't matter whether the symptom is a rash, or a joint problem, or indigestion, underneath that are these core ideas that you have that have driven you to behave and live in an unsustainable manner. And that then crystallizes into your lifestyle, which crystallizes into your diseases. And so it makes no difference what your disease is, if it's, you've lived your way into it, and overwhelmingly we do, it's going to require personal transformation.   Mason:  (03:39) So the personal transformation, especially to go back, because you used the word, you've been living in an unsustainable manner. And that's, I mean, that's where I personally feel that little deaths and reborn processes need to occur for myself, because to have to realize that what you're doing isn't sustainable and generally opens you up to the possibility of degenerating in one way or another.   Mason:  (04:04) As much as you might be doing all this other healthy shit and rocking it, but if you've really got something that's coming from, whether it's a belief pattern, whatever it is that's tweaking year towards unsustainability, then you're going to keep on being caught in that cycle and the only way is to really consistently let a part of you go, just like pass away. Right?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (04:30) Yes, absolutely. And it's not a failure if you find yourself in there, because crisis is woven into the very heart of life, into the fabric of the universe itself, that crisis is what facilitates evolution and change, phase shifts. And so biology, any complex system generates crises, because it's complex. And then as that crisis emerges, then it facilitates the emergence to another level of hierarchy, another level of complexity. So evolution and change has crisis and chaos as a core part of it.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (05:05) And so if you find yourself sinking and swimming and being engulfed in crisis and chaos in your life, then it's not because you're a failure as a human being, it's your living out to the process of the evolution of matter itself. All life passes through that, and all species pass through that, and the earth itself is passing through that. And so I think it's really important not to have some ideal that if you don't have vibrant wellness you're spiritually failing yourself in some way, which is a terrible thing to be putting forth to people because-   Mason:  (05:37) But it's something that hangs on in the background. [crosstalk 00:05:39].   Jimi Wollumbin:   (05:39) It hangs on a lot. It's very, very common in the new age, and it's toxic. It's a toxic meme. But we're going to talk about viruses today, and just to link those two ideas together is, what I was saying there is if somebody comes to me with a viral infection, then I don't... It's somewhat relevant what virus they have. I have to pay attention to that. Is it herpes, is it genital, is it this, where is it, what are the symptoms?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (06:08) But because they're opportunistic overwhelmingly, then I'm just going to go through that process of saying, well, what else is going on, how have you driven yourself to this particular point, and what are the beliefs underneath that? So what are the ideas or memes, if we use that language, right, these, what are the ideas that you've been infected with, the memes, that have driven the behavior that have now made you susceptible to this particular virus?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (06:35) And so that's what the work looks like at an individual level as well as the pragmatic stuff of these are the medicines and treatments that are useful in viral infections that sort of, the day to day bits of medicine. But the personal level goes like that. And I actually think that whilst everyone's got coronavirus on the brain at the moment, it's a perfect time to have the same conversation for us as a culture that needs to happen at an individual level about, wow, you've got a viral infection, so what does this mean? What does this mean to America? What does this mean to the global culture right now?   Mason:  (07:10) What does it mean in Australia when every single pharmacy and supermarket is literally sold out of face masks over this outbreak of the coronavirus. There's obviously a lot of worry and fear, and when you have, let's just say novel virus, if emerging and it's coming into public knowledge, at least, for the first time. It's been the first advertised outbreak. But I don't exactly know. I'm just talking between the lines, because I don't know exactly what's going on with coronavirus. I haven't been looking too much into it.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (07:44) Okay. Well that makes both of us really, I just have to flag my general ignorance as well about, I have an oral only policy on news, so I don't have any Facebook feeds or any social media feeds that I look, and I don't look at any websites.   Mason:  (07:56) Or conspiracy feeds.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (07:57) No feeds at all. The only way I get news about the world is filtered through other human beings that I trust, and so it that makes me the most ignorant and ill-informed person that I know.   Mason:  (08:07) And what it brings up, it's this interesting pattern. We can see with swine flu, bird flu, SARS, corona, it's this new ambiguity of us being susceptible and infected, not understanding quite what viruses are, which, that's where I feel like I'd like to jump into.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (08:26) Let's go there.   Mason:  (08:26) Let's go there, so-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (08:27) It'd be really, really interesting.   Mason:  (08:27) Yeah. Or, you want to just take the bat there and run with what we mean by that.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (08:31) So, just before we go into viruses, there needs to... I think, just a context of microbes. Right? And so just to see the larger context is that the web of life and the idea of a tree of life has been cut down by biologists. It's a bad metaphor, and it didn't work out. It's really officially a web of life.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (08:52) The web of life is microbial. And so that means that of the 23 kingdoms, we've got animals, plants, and fungi being macro, and the other 20 are all micro, right? And those macro ones, they're like the fungi, the fruiting body on top of this vast web of life. So life is overwhelmingly on this planet, microscopic and invisible to us. And the only reason that those microbes account for 90% of the species on this planet rather than 99.8985 or something, is because insects are in the animal category with us.   Mason:  (09:33) Right.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (09:34) Because of insects-   Mason:  (09:37) We bumped up.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (09:37) We bump it up to 10%.   Mason:  (09:38) They bump the mean up.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (09:39) Yeah. They bump it up, but you take them out and it's this microbes, so the web of life is microbial. And it's a web, right?   Mason:  (09:46) That's like cells are most bacteria in the human body kind of ratio.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (09:49) Just that sort of thing. So if you dehydrate me, I'm 19% microbial protein, it's like, wow, okay. And it's like that across the whole planet, the macro and micro thing. And the other important thing to see is that the bacteria are, we think of them as all these different species and that's helpful in a way, but they're all changing DNA, all changing DNA, like microbial lions changing DNA with microbial zebras, with microbial praying mantises, just swapping DNA. And so-   Mason:  (10:27) And many ways to swap as well.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (10:28) So many ways.   Mason:  (10:29) Directly to a different species, I'm randomly just going to leave this information here so that some other life form can come and get this-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (10:38) Here's the app.   Mason:  (10:38) ... and learn how to evolve.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (10:39) That right. Here's the piece.   Mason:  (10:40) It's insane.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (10:40) Grow wings like that.   Mason:  (10:42) [inaudible 00:10:42].   Jimi Wollumbin:   (10:42) You know?   Mason:  (10:43) Yeah.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (10:44) And it's, they're downloading large pieces like that. And so there's this huge subterranean, I mean that figuratively, but actually literally, microbes go kilometers under the earth, and if we would pile them up it's like four stories of microbial protein covering us right now across all of the oceans and all of the land, right? So this vast subterranean network, that's a single organism, that's a single network, because it's all swapping DNA and information around, right?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (11:16) And so it's this vast system of information processing that makes our technology and our internet look like a 1980s space invader machine compared to a quantum computer. The numbers, I mean, if I've got 35 trillion bacteria, and there's 7 billion of us humans, and we're a fraction of this... It's just...   Mason:  (11:36) Yeah, it boggles the mind.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (11:38) Vast, right? And so we have to see this huge web of life that is microbial, that fruits up in towards us and the other cute macro species where we're at, and profoundly intelligent. They invented sex. I mean, hallelujah, thank goodness, they have their own language, quorum sensing, all of these things, they have strategies, they hunt, they flee, they're intelligent, they solve mazes and all sorts of things, and they evolve at a staggering pace. And so, first off, that they evolve at a staggering pace is, we know that...   Jimi Wollumbin:   (12:17) Penicillin came out in '45 and 10 years later 80% of bacteria were already immune to it. Right?   Mason:  (12:25) Mm-hmm (affirmative)-.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (12:26) 10 years later. And Fleming had warned in the late 20s of the way in which they were getting immunity really quickly, before it was even available broadly, right? And so they just...   Mason:  (12:35) How was he onto that? Just working in the field?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (12:38) Yeah, in his own experiments. It's like things get immune really fast.   Mason:  (12:41) Right.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (12:41) He figured out in 1929 and he made a public announcement in 1945, the same year it all came out, right? 1954, nine years later, we got 65% to 80% immunity, right? And so because they're this huge smart network of everything trading genes, you put anything in and it passes all around. And so we throw our finest next generation bacteria antibiotic inside that, and then resistance forms, antibiotic resistance that is spread potentially through everything. Right? But not just resistance to that, but resistance to the next six drugs we haven't yet developed.   Mason:  (13:20) I love this world and it's floored me over the years, and at this point, a lot of it, I'm just like, yep, that's the reality. There's this huge web of life that's communicating and it's a whole kingdom upon itself, but when I think about the fact that they've become resistant to the antibiotic that hasn't been released yet, when I saw that data, I think it's like a Stephen Buhner first had data, is that fact they're living in the antibacterial soaps in the hospitals, you'd learn-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (14:02) Absolute zero, in nuclear reactors-   Mason:  (14:05) [inaudible 00:14:05].   Jimi Wollumbin:   (14:05) ... Out in space affecting them also.   Mason:  (14:06) You learn the reality of just, well, yeah, what we're... And then you watch the traditional mindset go, look what we're up against.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (14:17) Yeah. Wow. Okay. So that's the viral meme that we'll come back to, that pace then. Let's put that one to the side.. At the moment.   Mason:  (14:24) All right.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (14:26) So we've got that vast network of really intelligent super processing that is the web of life, right, that we are a part of. It's not us and them, we're a part of it. And then inside of that then we've got viruses. And not very long ago we were like, viruses, do they even get categorized as being alive, because they're just dumb self replicating chunks of DNA. It's like we don't even give them status as living beings. Right?   Mason:  (14:58) Yeah.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (14:58) That's where it was at. Right?   Mason:  (15:00) Yeah.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (15:00) And since then, thanks, I believe, to computer programming and together with systems biology, we found that viruses have to be understood as a swarm. And so looking at the individual, of course this is one of the things we were looking at in a reductionist way and you can't see the forest for the trees, so we look at an individual virus, it's like an alien coming down and looking at one of our brain cells and saying, these guys are morons.   Mason:  (15:25) Good point.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (15:25) Right? It's like that. So you're looking at one bee rather than a swarm of bees. Right? And then I found that when I look at that they behave in ecosystems like top predators, and they move through large whole areas, right, and inhabit that inside macro species like monkeys. And then they will do that, and they want to maintain, like farmers, say, of animals, equilibrium so that they can have their own going home that's stable.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (15:55) But then if something happens, like a rival troop comes in, then those viruses will become virulent. And when they infect the rival troop, then the rival triple die or get sick and unpleasant and have to run away so that ecostasis is maintained. Right?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (16:12) So we've got viruses as these large a-cellular, not having their own body, distributed intelligences, ecological demon, spirits of place that exist across multiple different beings and yet behave as a system in coordinated ways with all these different mutant mutations, right, all these different cells that have slightly different tweaks that will up-regulate one of those expressions and down-regulate another in order to maintain eco harmony so that they can continue. Right?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (16:49) So it's like viruses are doing this. Wow. So viruses are clever distributed intelligences. And on top of it, the other thing is that the reason why we don't have a tree of life anymore and we've got a web of life, is that the idea of a species doesn't make any sense anymore because we see that species are all changing DNA as well. And that's thanks to viruses. So viruses through horizontal gene transfer are taking DNA out of a zebra and putting it into a rattlesnake.   Mason:  (17:17) That's the best [inaudible 00:17:18]. It's always the best. It's like you're part virus, you're part so many things.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (17:24) We're like 40% viral in origin that we can identify, or something like this, right?   Mason:  (17:28) 40%.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (17:28) Something really, really high.   Mason:  (17:30) I didn't think it was that high.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (17:31) So viruses are the medium of evolution, or at least one of the mediums of evolution on this planet, right? And it creates, that's the tension of micro evolutionary changes in a Darwinian model of random mutation, it's like the fossil record doesn't support it, and it's just like, how do we get these leaps that the fossil record shows? It can be through viruses taking chunks, can be one of the mediums, right? Either way, horizontal gene transfer is taking place.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (17:58) So viruses are the medium of evolution, and they're distributed intelligent networks inside a massive big biosphere, which is Gaia, which is a huge supercomputer, single living organism that thinks, and responds, and computes really significantly. So we have to think of viruses in that context if we've got any hope of starting to approach what's happening at the moment, right?   Mason:  (18:25) Yeah. Well, it brings on a bit of a dichotomy when you have a viral infection and you go... I think because it's like we needed to have started the conversation back a little bit further. It's like, right now you're like, what am I supposed to do? Am I grateful for this? Am I letting it... It's maybe not the time to be have any huge conversations, just go and get yourself dealt with, but what is the conversation that we have then?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (18:53) Well, the conversation is... Let me give a couple more missing pieces of the puzzle before we get to the conversation I think.   Mason:  (19:00) Great. And go into that virus, just clipping parts of DNA of the puzzle and putting them all into one perfect string.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (19:07) So we've got the viruses moving around like this, we've got the vast, huge network of microbes that is the web of life that we are a part of, and we're just little fruiting bodies. And we have, on the planet at the moment, technological evolution like we've never seen before. Right? We've never seen, you're just staggering at the change that has happened in my life.   Mason:  (19:31) Yeah. Staggering.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (19:33) No one can keep up with it, right? But that technological evolution from the industrial revolution or wherever you want to take it, has produced significant changes in the biosphere, and parallel to the technological revolution that we can see in the big clunky things at our big clunky multicellular level, which is not the majority of life, where we are, we see all this technological change because our phones are smarter. Parallel to that is massive microbial evolution, massive change, maybe not like we've never seen before, but like has not been witnessed in a long time I assume.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (20:10) And so this is because we've significantly changed the environment, and we've been pumping out tons and tons and tons and tons of antimicrobial agents like antibiotics through our beef and all of these different things that are all putting pressure on the web of life. And let me say the web of life is fine, the microbial kingdom, fine. Microbes, like we just said, they can exist in nuclear reactors. The first evidence of microbes on this planet is during the Hadean era named after Haitis when the earth is essentially just a slightly cool ball of lava with meteorites exploding on it, the microbes are all right. Right?   Mason:  (20:51) And it's same with the Gaia, same with Gaia.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (20:54) That whole piece, right? Gaia microbes, microbes Gaia, they're sort of cells of Gaia in a way.   Mason:  (20:59) It's fine.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (20:59) Yeah, so that's fine, but it is changing because we have changed the environment so radically. It's having to adapt, so it's adapting. But those adaptions of the microbial kingdom to create ecostasis or harmony like the... You know the viral monkey story? Or you know when microbes first learn how to take in carbon and shit out oxygen they almost killed themselves by producing this noxious gas of oxygen that drowned the whole planet in corrosive, oxidizing, nasty acidic oxygen. And the mass extinction happened because of that.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (21:40) And then they figured out, oh, we can just use that intense, intense gas called oxygen, which is like sulfuric acid, and we can breathe it. And so they adapted to that. And then we got the respiration processes that plants and that we now take a breath, take for granted. And so they evolve underneath those things ecological crisis and adapt. And at the moment we've got this massive bio shift. And so this is massive change in what's happening with the microbes, right?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (22:10) And so we see the extinction of some of the macro species, which is heart rendering, right, for us, but what we don't see is this tsunami of roiling rippling change that's happening at the microbial level that reflects what's happening at the macro level of just like, whoa, okay, there's so much more carbon, whoa, there's tons and tons and tons of antibiotics, whoa, there's less of these species, whoa, there's pesticides, and heavy metals, and whatever else, and-   Mason:  (22:39) And radiation and all the [crosstalk 00:22:39].   Jimi Wollumbin:   (22:39) ... changing temperatures and radiation, gray spaces. And so it's like the web of life, that vast thing that would bury us four stories deep if we put this, the protein, the bacteria on top of us, is going through bacteria and viruses. And so over the last 25 years we've had like 30 brand new diseases emerge predominantly through ecological change and environmental change, and then through damning, through deforestation, through gray space, all that sort of stuff.   Mason:  (23:07) What's the gray space?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (23:09) Gray spaces where you've got huge environments that are manmade. And so-   Mason:  (23:14) Oh, and all that.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (23:15) Yeah, like concrete and all these sorts of things. Bacteria are thriving here, but they have to change to thrive inside plastic, concrete, EMF environments, right?   Mason:  (23:27) No real soil or ground-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (23:30) No, that's right.   Mason:  (23:30) ... just a little bit of [crosstalk 00:23:31].   Jimi Wollumbin:   (23:31) So it's a different culture, right?   Mason:  (23:32) Yeah.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (23:33) So it's a different microbial culture that-   Mason:  (23:34) Literally a different culture.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (23:35) ... thrives inside this culture that's here, right? And so all of those things are producing changes, right, so microbial changes, microbial cultural that reflect our cultural changes and our technological evolution, biological evolution that affects our technological evolution. And so then when we see coronavirus, then we have to have this conversation that we started off with like the person that comes to me with some other virus and say, well, you know what else is going on? I'm really exhausted, and I've been drinking too much, and I just had a divorce. And why was that?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (24:10) So I go, I guess I got a divorce because I was just never available, because I got the idea when I was a kid that I was unlovable. So I just had to work my ass off and all blah blah blah, and I drive people away like that, and now I'm exhausted, and my immune system is crashing, and I've got a virus. It's like, oh wow, good, it's time to take a good long hard look in the mirror.   Mason:  (24:25) Take this.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (24:26) Take a mirror home. That's the main thing, right?   Mason:  (24:31) Yeah.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (24:31) It's like, wow, you lived your way into this.   Mason:  (24:33) Well, then you're asking them to take home a lifelong practice as well.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (24:37) Absolutely.   Mason:  (24:37) Which is interesting.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (24:38) But that's what's being asked of us as a species.   Mason:  (24:41) For sure.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (24:42) That process, right, of, what's coronavirus about, and all these other new diseases about, and what can we learn from it, and in what way do we need to change and adapt? Because at the moment we are on this thing of just like, let's just keep changing the environment to us rather than us changing to our environment, adapted to an environment. So there's a larger conversation of like, wow, okay, things are shifting really fast and we can see some of these diseases coming up.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (25:11) And not to fear monger, because people have pointed out that there's a large amount of fear out in the world at the moment about these viruses, but as somebody that's studied the history of epidemics, then we know that when we've mismanaged our environment really significantly, like in the middle ages or through the industrial revolution, that those diseases that come up, those microbial changes that have to adapt to that really significantly different environment, there's nothing medicine does and can do then or today, and just like, yeah, a third of the population just disappears.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (25:46) And this just comes for a period of time and then disappears like this English sweating sicknesses and you just, you'd be alive and then 24 hours later you'd be dead. And then when it's all done, the sweating, sickness, bacteria and virus have just disappeared. They come for a period and then they go after that. Right? And so there's due course for us as a species to have a degree of alarm about how we're mismanaging our environment and what the biosphere is going to do, not in a punitive sense because we are the biosphere, but just in terms of maintaining equilibrium and balance. Right?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (26:19) And so coronavirus by itself doesn't frighten me, but the rippling and roiling of the microbial underworld is, that's what homeostasis can look like in the process of these mass macro ecological changes. We see the forests, we see the glaciers, we don't see what's happening in the web of life below that because it's too small for us. But it's moving like plate tectonics. Right? And coronavirus is one of those ones that's like this, but coronavirus looks all right. But the epidemiologists and my microbiologists that are alarmist, they have a good reason, because they've seen-   Mason:  (27:06) They've seen what can happen.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (27:08) They know what can happen. They do know what happens. So as a species, not as an individual, as an individual you shouldn't worry. And I just want to repeat that. Anyone that's really worried, I don't think as an individual you should worry at all right now, but as a species I really think we should worry because we terribly mismanaged our environment. And the changes that can come as a result of that can be frightening for us, not for life, not for the web of life, but for us as an individual species.   Mason:  (27:34) Yeah. And it's confronting, I mean, none more than when you go into the healing space of a hospital, and it's, you continue... Last decade I've been around lots of more nurses and doctors and become much more sympathetic of the human element, but I'm not sympathetic towards my own ignorance and nor for general ignorance as well, and also not an asshole when I try and point it out and think I'm a know it al.   Mason:  (28:08) But that environment is literally a storehouse of bacterial and viral infection because we keep on kicking the can down the road with antimicrobials, and antivirals, and antibiotics when it's a virus, just to be safe, so on and so forth, just chopping the organ out, sterile, no plants, no sunlight, none of that. It gets very significant when you take a-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (28:33) Oh, yeah.   Mason:  (28:33) ... back look or look back at, this is where we're doing our healing?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (28:37) It radicalizes and virializes the web of life. And so there's no good metaphors for this, but you could think of it as terrorist training camps, except it's not terrorist, it's just life. You could think of it as-   Mason:  (28:53) The way that we relate to it it is.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (28:54) Yeah. From our perspective, we're radicalizing, it's like that because they're still not terrorists, they're still interested just in harmony, but from our perspective they invoke terror so we think we think of them as terrorists.   Mason:  (29:05) For sure.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (29:06) We radicalize them in the hospital through those particular processes, but we don't just radicalize them, we evolve them.   Mason:  (29:13) We evolve them massively, right?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (29:14) Really quickly. And there's been more microbial generate... How does this go? Because they go through a generation in every two minutes or something like that, so there's more... What we see over the last 300 years of human existence in terms of technological evolution, we say, wow, look at that, that's happening every five minutes in the bacterial world. It's just, it happens so quickly. It's happened so quickly. Like one bacteria listed left to divide uninhibited would produce more cells than there are protons in the known universe in like two years or something like that.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (29:54) And they are evolving through that process constantly. So the process is really, really fast. And compared to our macro evolution, which is quite slow, the micro evolution is really, really fast.   Mason:  (30:06) So then if we start looking at, all right, if we are susceptible to illness and viral infections, say, in a treatment perspective, you've talked to our need to get to the root as well as then personalized treatment. Ongoingly, do you see the fact that we need to be working on that level to come into harmony within ourselves, in lifestyle and state of mind? In that essence, then what? Is it so that our immune system can be strong so we can be a part of nature?   Mason:  (30:38) Do we need to almost practice the little deaths because we've got this inevitable moving back to when we're going to die and be absorbed by this huge microbial kingdom? What's the point? Where do we fit with our health and our relatedness?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (30:54) Okay. So, I hear the invitation to speak in a clinical and individual level, and I promise I will, but first I want to say, if I just have a conversation like that and then said, and for yourself, make sure you do this and this and this so you're strong, I will be perpetuating the problem. And so the problem is this as I see it, right, is that we've been talking about genes and the way in which they move around, but we spoke previously about memes, like the viral infection of an idea that drove that particular man to destroy his marriage and his health. Right?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (31:34) And so memes in evolutionary biology are ideas that spread through culture. So Christianity is a meme, catholicism is a meme, feminism is a meme, capitalism is a meme. All our isms are memes. They're ideologies that affect us, right? And so there's this continuity between microbial culture and human culture, between genes and memes, that goes around and around and around.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (32:02) And so on the one hand we can see, just imagine that there's a gene for selfishness and violence, which there isn't, and genes don't work that way, but imagine there is because it's easier to think about. And then we've got someone that's got that gene and then they create a tribe around them that's all got that gene, and then they create a country and an empire like the Roman empire that's based upon this particular gene spreading, every stage of that. Then they create culture around that, they creates stories around that, they create images, they create are practices that all have a meme involved of violence and selfishness.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (32:37) Now as that meme spreads to other cultures, their stories, their religions, and their religion is, it's survival of the fittest, that's their religion, say, as that idea gets out, then that idea changes those other people in the same way that that gene could change other people. Right? So genes can give rise to meme and then memes come down and change our biology culture. The meta emergent culture changes our biology as a species in the same way that your ideas change your biology and your biology changes your ideas.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (33:12) So we've got this movement of there's unhealthy ideas, cultural memes that are spreading across the planet behind the globalization of the world, and that fundamental... It's hard to put a word to what is that meme, because it's really complex, right? So there's no satisfying single quip. Right? But for the purposes of your question, I'm going to say the meme that is spreading is the meme of the fallacy of separation, that our economy is separate from our fine arts, that human culture is separate from the environment, that the icebergs is separate from your gut health.   Mason:  (33:54) I mean, even in the body strength is separate from flexibility.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (33:58) All of those.   Mason:  (33:58) Yeah. All of those. Yeah.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (33:59) All of those using reductionist linear thinking in a nonlinear universe overwhelming.   Mason:  (34:07) A universe-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (34:07) Right?   Mason:  (34:07) ... that literally doesn't have such thing as a straight line.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (34:09) Right. That's right. So that's the meme that I would say, the fallacy of separation, right? And that that is spreading across lots of different cultures. And as it spreads, they create technology and practices that then alter the environment that then virializes bacteria in particular ways, right? And then those bacteria will then spread genes and do things like that. So we've got this movement up and down in a complex system from its parts and the emergent holes that come out of them like this.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (34:39) And so when you say, well, what should I do? If I say, well, you know what you should do, Mason, is you should make sure that you get all the proper nutrition and you do this and this and this and this and this, I would be potentially spreading the fallacy of separation.   Mason:  (34:55) Well, what I'm thinking, well, yeah, what I was thinking there, what we do in terms of a mindset going forth, is it... Because I've thought about this and meditated on this for so long, and in the end it's just something to do to keep on coming back to yourself I imagine, but is there a surrenderedness, is there you're not in control? Is it, while you are a part of that web of life and so then the context of you becoming healthy isn't in, don't let that opportunistic organism come and kill me you bastard, I'm going to beat you. Is it something bad? I just want hear your insights of that core.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (35:38) Yeah. Good. So I definitely think that our own personal healing and our own personal journey is one of the most profound ways that we can affect the macro level as well.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (35:48) And there's this ancient connection between the micro and macro, right? That by getting healthy, by getting well, by engaging deeply in your process, your addictions, and the viral memes that you have in your family line and your own story, by starting to become conscious of those and healing those, by seeing the cultural ones that you've inherited of separation and fragmentation of who you are and how you see the world, then you're in a better place to be that little meme sharing bacteria in the web of life that says in moments like this, hey, have this little download. That's what I'm doing now. You and I are doing this now.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (36:33) We are virally spreading an idea. Well, we caught it from other people as well, it's not that we came up with it, but we're spreading this idea. And as it spreads that idea, then it changes the culture, and as we change the culture, then we change the way we do things, which is changing the environment, which is giving rise to those bacteria as well. Right?   Mason:  (36:52) Yeah.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (36:52) So I definitely think that people engaging with their own health is really, really important, but it's how you do that and why you do that that makes all the difference. Because a lot of people have still the viruses Osama Bin Laden must be killed and protected against and I'm taking all these super herbs to kill the bug, must kill bug.   Mason:  (37:13) And now the water fast, like more skin scrubbing, more oregano oil all over me. Like it's-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (37:20) It's herbal antibiotics against life, antibiotic, against the web of life. And it's the fallacy of separation that underpins that. And so there can be no health in an unhealthy culture. There can't be. And so our deepest yearnings for self-preservation have to get married to the transformation of our unhealthy culture and the preservation of the environment that we live in. It has to be that. And also along the way, yes, we need to take care of ourselves and we can... Once I've said this piece, I can move on, and then we can talk about antiviral herbs and things like that as well.   Mason:  (37:59) Yeah. I guess it's got a context.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (38:00) It does. Then it has the context. Right? But the larger piece is that we can not isolate ourselves with adaptogenic, immunological, super extracted herbs from the vast biological upheavals of the microbial kingdom. We cannot, our best... We can't do that. Right? Human beings will survive, but there's no guarantees about any individual.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (38:29) And so the idea is, I think, folly to just try and lock ourselves away, and the idea is, I believe, to get whole and healthy, and to become a wellbeing so that we can participate in the process of healing our fractured culture and vanquishing those unhealthy memes that have changed our environment, that are giving rise to those virulent genes, viruses, and microbes. Yeah.   Mason:  (38:59) Then we become, funilly, the micro in the macro of the microbials at that point. Right. Which is a trip. They are our ancestors. Right?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (39:09) Absolutely.   Mason:  (39:10) It's the bacteria that created, and viruses, that created a cell structure that then enabled us to come about that. I like that because it doesn't change us. We're not expecting all of a sudden to put on completely new glasses and see the world in a completely different way, but you can feel the world in a different way. You can trust the course that you're on already. You're trying to become more loving, more healthy, less of an asshole, try and get as much information as possible.   Mason:  (39:36) The internet is connected, but humans aren't connected, so you can't get, as you say, because you have all these memes, and this bias, and these institutional official stories of what reality is. It's hard sometimes to know what's truth and what's not, therefore, it's hard to take action like a microbe would that is going to lead us towards a personalized evolution. And you can see this quagmire happening. I think it's going to pass. I think there's a lot of extremism. I also see a splitting of the chains.   Mason:  (40:13) When you said those gray areas, I always think sometimes you just see... And you can feel the pull, you can feel the pull of modernity and domestication at times, and then as well you can feel that pull of nature. And if you're going to be getting involved in one direction or the other, to an extent, this is all speculation, but this is something I think about a lot, there's various splits in the genes where, not that you have different speices necessarily, but along that line of a conversation. So, because that leads to there had not been a right or a wrong because we have many different paths as well.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (40:52) Yeah, there are. One of the things I was thinking when you were saying that is about the modernity piece, is I think that one of the most radical things that we can do is to not just consume ancient grains, but to consume ancient memes, and to preserve ancient meme. And so ancient memes are contained in the world's mythologies in these ancient, ancient stories because they hold wisdom, they hold huge chunks of information, like the bacterial chunks that say, this is how you fly, or this is how you get camouflaged, right?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (41:34) They contain this in this myth or poetic language. And when we take them in they're like a ferment or something that you introduce into your kombucha. It changes everything. You change the culture within through consuming these leavens of these ancient memes. And so I think when you it's hard to know, it's confusing. There's all these things going on, all that sort of stuff, in the world. It's like, personally, that's one of the reasons why I'm ignorant of a lot of things in the modern world, is because I'm cautious about the information that I consume. I'm cautious about the imagery that I consume.   Mason:  (42:16) Well, that's huge as a health piece.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (42:19) Yeah. Because it changes... They're memes. They're all memes. Right. And you're not immune to it. They're going to become a part of you.   Mason:  (42:25) Discernment is massive.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (42:27) Yeah. Far out, so anyway, so. So that's that piece. I think that it's in terms of saying, well, how do I navigate through this environment? Is the how do I live, is not what science has ever excelled at. Right. Because mythology is not bad science, it is a completely different piece. It's a guide on the nature of being and how to navigate through crisis and change. That's what's in those stories. So that's one of my prescriptions, right.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (43:04) To our culture and to anyone living, read and immerse yourself in ancient mythology, because there's this life saving memes inside there that go in like viruses and change your state of consciousness. And they change it profoundly by giving you different metaphors, different images, and different lenses so that you can see the world in a different way, you can see opportunities and crises in a different way. And if I've arrived at a different perspective in my journey as a practitioner, it's through that. It's through the regular consumption of ancient memes.   Mason:  (43:39) Is that what draw you back to Mongolia?   Jimi Wollumbin:   (43:42) Yes, that's what drew me back to Mongolia. Yes. Speaking of ancient meme, it's a place rich in, and Siberia as well, the shamanism there, a place very rich in ancient memes indeed.   Mason:  (43:55) You've got some of those stories on your Facebook page. I think I'll-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (43:57) I do indeed.   Mason:  (43:58) ... just tell people to stay there rather than going, give us your top 10 mentions.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (44:03) That's right. And so then, I feel like I've dodged your previous question of what are people to do in response at an individual level to viral illness.   Mason:  (44:18) No. You answered it. I mean, clinically it's always interesting. I'm quite over getting a checklist of things to do and the Western approach of having reliance. I think a 20% of your energy in towards knowing the practicality, if you go down there are certain actions that you can take upon infection feeling, whether it's... What is it? Is it hot, is it cold, or is it... And you can take appropriate action to get yourself back into harmony.   Mason:  (44:44) You really answered the beginning of it. Being a part of that web of life, first of all, it means you get infected and, I mean, part of it's a big thing. It's like something's going to get yet you, something's going to get you.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (44:55) But do you not want to be gotten is the question.   Mason:  (44:57) Exactly.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (44:58) Do you not want to be gotten?   Mason:  (44:59) Well, that's what drove me in health, I think, in the very beginning, was a subtle fear of death. And that's why I got a little bit orthorexic and parasites. And now I'm at the point where I feel like I can go back into that conversation of cleansing, knowing that cleansing isn't a separate conversation from my general, it is my general lifestyle and everything that I'm doing anyway. I've got a little bit more of that. What you're saying, it takes a long time to feel that unity and that connectiveness.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (45:30) Purify me of the idea that I need to be purified.   Mason:  (45:34) It's massive. And it's interesting as well, because part of you needs to go forth at times. All you've got is your mind to hang on to protocols to get healthier. But then the transition of when you're rejuvenated to an extent that you can stand in your own sovereignty and start, you start feeling these mythical stories inside of yourself. You don't even have to... all that wisdom inside of yourself, and that capacity to realize, whether you like it or not, on a very practical level, you're not separated. There are microbials in you that have connected...   Jimi Wollumbin:   (46:07) You can't live without.   Mason:  (46:08) You can't live without.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (46:09) You die if they go. We know this.   Mason:  (46:11) But then from there you go, okay, I'm not having a knee jerk response to an official story or a meme anymore. From there, I mean, we don't even have to talk about anti-microbials and antivirals.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (46:28) Well, the best thing you can do is very simple, is to maximize your own wellbeing. And so the goal of health is health, it's not fighting disease, and health is not the absence of disease.   Mason:  (46:38) Well, that's an interesting piece-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (46:40) Right?   Mason:  (46:40) ... because it's a good-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (46:40) We notice. The world health organization agrees, right? And yet again and again, it's same with herbalists, they get suckered into fighting disease and treating disease. And so then you'll see a famous herbalist circulating their coronavirus formula, which just shows disappointingly their absence of education in the foundations of traditional medicine and integrative thinking.   Mason:  (47:04) Do you mean that even, just to bring some context, do you mean that in regards to what we've talked about or even more basically the fact that there are going to be absolutely individualized reasons as [inaudible 00:47:17] the coronavirus in the first place.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (47:19) No. If five people have influenza virus, and let's say they had the same strain, when they come to a good therapist, then they get five different treatments. One of those people is a 85 year old woman, and how she's feeling is really exhausted. The next person is a 45 year old robust man who's got fevers. The next person is a seven year old child who's sweating a lot and vomiting, right? What we treat is we enhance the resistance and the wellbeing of those individuals.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (48:00) Yes, we have an awareness of herbs that are anti-microbial, but that's only one of a whole range of things that go in to improve the way the system is responding. We're trying to harmonize that ecology of that particular person, and so some of the medicines could be diaphoretics that open up the pores and help release, some of the medicines could be heating, some of them could be cooling, some of them could be focused upon reducing nervous tension because that's what's keeping them in a fight or flight response and has switched off their immune system at the mains.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (48:34) And they all require, so evidence based medicine and integrative medicine, and I teach integrative doctors in the States about how to get integrative and to think in an integrative manner, evidence based medicine is giving way to individualized medicine.   Mason:  (48:47) It has to.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (48:48) It has to, right?   Mason:  (48:49) Otherwise it's not medicine.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (48:50) There's no evidence. It's like when you average it out, it's like across 50,000 people, well then it becomes nonsensical because then there's one who is average, right? It's like the matchbox factory that puts 49 matches in every box and the other one that puts 51 they say the average matchbox has 50 matches, but there's no match box that has 50 matches. It doesn't exist. There's no average.   Mason:  (49:12) It's an interesting thing that happened. TCM is the classic example that went extremely Western, and went, even just the categorization of disease based on the symptoms. Which you kind of, you have some sympathy for the Western mind needing to go to an institution and get a piece of paper, and we need a regulatory body because we're not patient enough to have it be like a real teacher student download, and then most people just don't have the patients or...   Mason:  (49:38) I hardly think I've got the skill and patience to sit there in a clinic and do that individual assessment again and again, not at this point in my life anyway. That's tough. It's a special skill.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (49:50) The opposite is really tough actually, I would say, having been a practitioner for 20 years.   Mason:  (49:54) Being ineffective.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (49:56) And also, no one wants to be making burgers. People come, I give you my this protocol, the next person comes, I give you my that protocol. That's why you said, what do you do? And I said, well, I'm interested in helping people transform. I mean, interested in people, helping them die and be reborn, because that's what your ill health is an invitation for always. And that's what globally we require.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (50:23) We require each one of those individuals to be transformed, to die to themselves and to emerge as well-beings having vanquished some of the unhealthy cultural memes that they've had inside them so that then they can be the leaven for a healthy culture, because there can be no health and an unhealthy culture. And so we desperately require well-beings, but that happens individual by individual, and as it happens is a very personal process, and it's gutsy, and it's raw, and it's got sweat, and tears, and snort, and it's hard, and it's terrifying a whole bunch of the time.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (50:59) As you go through it, that's what transformation looks like. Just ask the caterpillar, I used to think the caterpillar crawled into its chrysalis and it was really cozy in there, and mood lighting and all that sort of stuff, and then it elongated and sprouted wings, but it doesn't, it turns to mush, and every single cell in that bacteria just dissolves into a Caterpillar smoothie, right? It's just like, except for these-   Mason:  (51:25) Sexy.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (51:25) ... small cells, the imaginal cells that hold the vision of flying, right? And that's like the soul, right, the imaginal realm, the imaginal cells in us. And so the process of healing is a process of alchemical transformation, and it's tough, and it's hard, and it is scary, but more scary than that is staying where you are. When it feels more scary to lose your soul and to stay in the little cage that you're at rather than to take this risk, and to go through, and to change, that's when I want to see you. I want them to book in with me then.   Mason:  (52:02) Yeah, I mean, and that process, it's, it can be harrowing and can take time.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (52:08) It is always harrowing. I've just been through one myself. It was incredible, but harrowing definitely. I had my own midlife crisis last year, and health things, and all this sort of stuff. It was definitely harrowing, but it's also profoundly liberating. And I'm not in a hurry to go back to it, but I'm so grateful. I would rather go back to that then go back to where I was and just continue indefinitely in the way that I was being, because I was possessed by particular ideas, particular selves, particular memes.   Mason:  (52:42) Identities, and yeah.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (52:43) Yes. All of those things, right, that were way too limiting, way too small for the vast pantheon of gods that inhabits every human being. And so I'm grateful for it, but yes, it was harrowing.   Mason:  (52:55) Yeah. It can be especially harrowing when you are enmeshed in the community where you've got yourselves and your identity tied up, yet it doesn't let you-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (53:04) Families, relationships, all of those.   Mason:  (53:07) Yeah. Cliques, social cliques, all that kind of stuff. It can't not be a part of medicine. You're right. And then these manifestations come up, that's when it becomes less of a mindset of just like this sickness is an opportunity just as an idea and you can actually start dropping into the reality of it. It becomes far more annoying being told that. What a great opportunity. It's like, shut up.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (53:27) Yeah. That's right.   Mason:  (53:30) I'm super sick right now. But it's like-   Jimi Wollumbin:   (53:35) Because there's no sense of what that is. It's just then it's a platitude, right? It's just thrown around, but there's no real understanding of what that is. But again, to come back to the macro, I think that this is required for us as a species, that individuals are willing to go on that journey, that they're willing to go right down that rabbit hole, that they're willing to go on a harrowing journey of initiation of descent into the underworld, like Persephone, of transformation and transmutation, is that, that's the hero's quest.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (54:11) Every one of us has that invitation. And the only way that our culture can be whole is if we have a certain number of imaginal cells, a certain number of initiated individuals that have been down to the underworld, that have died, that have drunk from those sacred waters and have re-emerged with gifts for those around them. And then they share those, those memes, those stories, those songs, right? They share them like that.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (54:36) That's the only way our culture is refreshed. Otherwise, a culture inevitably become stagnant, and ossified, and unhealthy, whatever it was at the start, it ends up, it used to be a signpost that pointed towards heaven, that pointed towards the moon, that pointed towards something worthwhile, and people used to use that signpost where their gaze was directed towards something, something truly worthwhile.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (54:58) And then after a while, people just start worshiping the signpost, and climb up on top of the sign post that pointed to Rome, or to heaven, or the moon and say, I'm at my destination and they get dogmatic and then they fight to defend the signpost, right? And that happens to every culture unless they're those people that go down, and when they go down, they go down crying and screaming, and hurting, and bleeding, and shaking, and terrified, into the underworld. But they emerge renewed.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (55:24) And so there's a lot of people that are hurting that will be listening to this. And there's a lot of people that will be scared and feel like they're not coping and that there are finally because of it, and again, I just want to say that that does not make you a failure. That makes you a hero on a quest, and to have the courage that it takes to keep going through that process, right, that's actually what healing looks like. It's a breakdown, a breakdown of those memes, it's a breakdown of those other identities, right? And that's what creates a well-being. That's what creates a resilient being.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (55:58) And if you want to be resilient, it's not really the goal, how can I be resilient so the bacteria can't get me? Wrong goal, wrong goal entirely.   Mason:  (56:07) Well, it's just a little bit misdirected, and with that reality that you've just been talking about, inclusive in the letting go, is as you move along.. The hardest thing is sometimes you find a community, or a person, or a practice, or diet, or whatever it is that was been super healing, and now a part of your process is to let that go as you go along. It's why it can be so harrowing and confusing.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (56:32) Absolutely.   Mason:  (56:33) However, then when you start talking about hydration, and herbalism, and sun exposure, if you're embedded in the process of the simplicity and enormity of what you're doing in this life and what you're going through, and in that context of I'm connected to all of this, and I don't know where I'm going, but I'm going, I'm doing it for me, and I'm doing it for others, and you're like, there's a focus on that sharing, all of a sudden it takes the charge away from the adaptogenic herbs. It takes the charge away from having to have the right water and diet, because it pulls it into context. Right? And that's what I like.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (57:13) Into a different context.   Mason:  (57:15) A hugely different context.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (57:17) A deeper, and a wider, and a broader context.   Mason:  (57:19) One that has reality. It's why, Superfeast, it's a weird thing, is why I don't go out and say like adaptogens, adaptogens, adaptogens, I talk about, in this instance I have the opportunity to talk about tonic herbalism in a Taoist philosophy. And so it's got this bed of, it's not really about the herbs, they fit in, and then they just fit into the flow, and they support something.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (57:40) They're a means towards an end, not an end unto themselves. Right?   Mason:  (57:44) And that's, it's not effective for longterm cruisy flowing, finding what for you, finding your own sovereign lifestyle and culture as you move along anyway if you create a health trend to everyone's got to be doing these things, it's not effective long term. I think it's a bad business model. Well, I think it is.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (58:09) Probably is, but it reflects a deeper understanding of what health really is as well. Because otherwise, we have this profoundly unhealthy culture with these profoundly unhealthy individuals infected by these cultural memes that rob them of happiness in a deep and fundamental way, that separate us from one another increasingly fragmenting us from parts of ourselves, our left brain from our right brain, our inner child from... All of these different parts of fragmenting and fragmenting and fragmenting. And there can be no health in that. It doesn't matter how many super foods you consume and how...   Mason:  (58:45) Except cacao and [crosstalk 00:58:45].   Jimi Wollumbin:   (58:46) Except cacao. Right. Except chocolate. Okay, chocolate's an exception.   Mason:  (58:48) And then the thing is, it's not. It definitely isn't. So, yeah... That fragmentation.   Jimi Wollumbin:   (58:58)

Hello and welcome to warrior divas real talk for real women. Our show is specifically designed for divas. divas is an acronym for Destin inspired victorious accountable sisters. And we will be bringing guests on our show who will help in our mission to equip and empower a global community of women change agents as we make a positive impact on the world we live in. When we started doing this impact about four years ago, we quipped that we wanted to change the way women think and speak about themselves and others. And as we progress that was our thinking and our intentions and we want to talk about things that are impacting women. So that means we will talk about faith, family, fitness, finance, dude, and a lot of other words that don't even begin with that. So today I'm excited to bring on the show Lucy Mitchell are fierce in beautiful wellness, and I met Lucy through her husband I've been watching her for a little while and have fallen in love with her beautiful outlook on life. Lucy is a mindset and wellness coach site. Colin fitness fanatic food lover look, we got some of those f words in there. And all around personal development junkie she helps women break free from their inner mindset demons and create healthy relationships with food and fitness and define their self worth and find the confidence to live a life of purpose on their own terms. Welcome to the show, Lucy. Thank you, thank you. Well, I am so thankful to have you on the show and you know, it's a little bit of one of those things that I'm listening to what you're talking about and and what your mission is and, and it lines up so much with what we wanted to do and what we are hoping to accomplish with empowering and equipping women. I think it's it's just beautiful. So first off, I want to tell I want you to give us a little bit about what Why this is important to you? Oh, gosh, I mean, I think that I would probably have to go to a little bit of a backstory in myself. I mean, I'm first of all, I'm one of four daughters that my father had. So that in itself, there's lots of events going on in that house with my mother. And in fact, they always had a habit of choosing even female animal that was all about a daddy, there was a glutton for punishment, or he was a sweetheart, through and through. But he did raise him and my mother always did raise us to be very strong willed, very independent woman. And I said something that I've always carried through my entire life and probably proved very difficult and a lot of my relationships that I was not so much of what you call quote, unquote, a submissive woman. I just always do what I want. To do what I wanted out of life, and I wanted all my relationships, no matter what they were friendships, personal relationships, my children to live vicariously through that just, you know speak your truth. Speak your mind and and live your life to the fullest. And I really, it really hit to my core when my dad passed away suddenly, actually yesterday he realized it was five years that cancer took him from us. And in fact I woke up this morning going oh my gosh, I didn't even reflect or or anything about that which is a good thing because that means that we're you know, we're at peace with you know, his passing but I had decided about a couple of years ago. A that that cancer is is one of those that doesn't put the word I'm looking for it's it's it knows no boundaries. It's not just hereditary. It can affect anything. One right and, and that it's really important that we look for the signs and that we pay attention to ourselves. And as women, we spend so much time taking care of others that we don't stop and listen to ourselves and and listen to our own bodies and take care of our own needs. And that's where I decided, you know, that's not okay, we should be able to speak out and take care of ourselves. And so I just started like looking inward and decided I wanted to become a transformational nutritional coach. And I wanted to start working with women and in the pyramid upon women a problem phase of their lives, because that's the phase where we just given up, we have no purpose. We were just, it's all about our kids. It's all about our husbands. It's all about everybody else, and we no longer have a voice and by the time we have a voice, we feel it's too late. And I'm like, I'm techno sister. You have a voice and it's time to use it. And that's what my purpose has been. Is, is taking this drive that I have to live healthier to speak your truth to link arms with other sisters and just, you know, whatever it is, whether it's licensing, whether it's spiritual, whether it's sexual, whether its food, whether it's fitness, no matter what it is, it's like your children will be fine. Take the time to take care of yourself. Exactly where I'm at. Well, I think you bring up a beautiful point because a lot of the times those of us that are in those older years of life in we're not old, we're not dead. We we have a lot to give up, live up to and, and one of the things that I hear all too often is it's not only that they've given up, it's because a lot of times they've been so invested in helping their children. Or their spouse build up their dreams that they forgot how to dream. They didn't they don't know how to dream anymore. And they just don't have the energy to move forward with anything anymore. And a lot of that has a lot to do with Fitness, Health, the food you're putting in your body, your hormones, and like you said, they give up. I can relate to this because about a year or two ago, I was pretty much in the same place. I was. Okay, something has got to change. This is not right. Some I feel like something's hijacking my body and and what I found is there's a lot of women out there that feel that they just have to suffer silently. And I love that you're saying that's not true. I agree. And I think the other F word that we're all set is fear. Mm hmm. Exactly. Here I have the women that I have talked to is fear not a change but of making a change because they have gotten so stagnant are so used to a certain routine, a monotonous routine of doing things. It's, I want to say and I mean I'm 45 years old I've had three children I have four of my stepdaughter, but I've had four children and mentally and physically I do not feel 45 but I've also made that my passion drive like not because I remember watching my mom grow up and personalities eyes is probably today 65 right and and even then some 65 there are 45 I mean, all just depends on on your your drive to be something different, but I remember there was a cartoon and I'm gonna really date myself but way before I was born, Black and White, probably from Disney, but it was just as monotonous black or white. Whether they were just a repetitive cartoon like they had briefcases and they were just walking slowly along the line to work. And it just, it was just repetitive. They're just doing the same thing. over and over and over again, in no power, there was no life, there was no activity. And I feel like I see so many women feel that that's what they're supposed to do. Get up, feed the children take care of the husband clean the house, go to bed, right. And when I reach out to when I reach out even to some of my close friends about like, hey, there's this amazing women's conference downtown and we're going to put samples of face creams on our feasts and, and and you know, sample whatever is in here from concept. Well, I'm not no I don't and, and, you know, what will people think? Right now Like First of all, let's see if we can find something new and something done and and like let's get away from the kids away from the husbands and you know we're old I've discovered this amazing you know, like I lost 35 pounds in August give a listen to my body and I and I, you know I it's like to share all the different things that have worked for me for stepping outside of what the norm is. And I want to link Everybody with me I want to take all my sisters with me. And there's so much more there's so much fear. Well, yeah, and I agree with you on that. I think I think we have a lot of women that I listen to and and I'm surrounded by a bunch of strong women so a lot of my friends are kind of in the same boat I am their husband goes to work their husband goes on business trips, they just keep on keepin on they don't let their life be dictated by their their spouses schedule or their kids schedule. They still make time for friends. They still make time for their business, they still make time for living their life. But I realized that there's a out circle of women that I'm connected to, that that's all their life revolves around. It may be for the season, it may be that that's all they know how to do. And one of the things that it like it goes back to that fear word, word, you know, they don't want to rock the boat, so to speak. But I think it also goes back to how we're raised and what we're seeing and what's emulated for us. You talked about your dad being outnumbered by daughters Do you know? Well, he probably didn't, he didn't probably run the house, the house probably ran, you know, by the daughters more than then he would have liked to admit it admitted. But there's that that sense of confidence and ability that he instilled in you to where if your kids or your husband move on, yes, you're going to be you know, to business or to A career path or off to school, you're not going to be wrecked by that because you've got things of your own to do. It doesn't mean you're sitting waiting for Eric to come home. It doesn't mean you're waiting for your kids to come home for your life to be complete. And that's the part that we're wanting to women to realize is you are a complete human being with or without them. They are just, they are your life. You love them. It doesn't disqualify their role in your life, but they are not your your wholeness, and we want to talk about your wholeness. Yeah, yeah, exactly. My mom and dad were married for 44 years. And my dad did work. He worked. He owned his own landscaping business and then he was also a longshoreman. Very tough job. Yeah. So my mom did raise us Basically solely, I mean, our celebrations were around food. Because God was home, right? Um, you know, and it's funny when we were just together. My sister my younger my baby sister just had a baby. And he's where we sold. I just went home to go and meet him for the first time. And we were reminiscing and we were talking about how I remember when it was like Danny was home we celebrated with hungry man. You could put it in your body. Yeah, the look of joy on my dad's face wanting to meet that sounds very state hungry man dinner with the apple cobbler and the water down mashed potatoes. But it was all of us watching him eat and sitting with him because that was a rare key. Right? And what I look back on and see is that there wasn't a lot of light and color in my mom's face because what What he did in those hours to work for his daughters and his wife versus the hour during the day of what she did to keep the children alive in the house of flow. I saw that color changes we got older because she had more time and she was able to start doing things for herself. She ended up becoming a professional chef for a very small company. When I think it was close to me more moving out and still to my younger two sisters. Wow. And it was one of the things I took with me even later on was that, okay, it is okay to find your own interest outside like you're talking about outside of your role of wife and mom. And what I loved was that my dad always encouraged that. And my sisters and I have been very, very fortunate to marry husband to have always encouraged and supported any of our ventures and I believe me for I've had many years, for 21 years, I went to college for 10 years to either become an accountant, a business something and blatantly Was it a master's degree in education, I was going to be a teacher. Oh, wow. And now I'm going to become a I'm a transformational nutritional coach. Um, and God bless my husband for supporting every single one of those ventures. It but it's it was for me it was going back and like, knowing that my mom had that supportive my dad because she supported him. So just keep the house afloat, like keep food on the table. and whatnot. Exactly. And, and, you know, I think, I think we think, how do I phrase this? I think a lot of the times we as modern women think our role has changed so drastically from the quote unquote, olden days, but when you look back and You know, I'm going to use the Bible as a reference here. If you look back in the days of Abraham and Sarah and Isaac and all of them, the men went off, they went off to tin the sheep, they went off to hunt, they went off to gather, you know, they did all of that. And the women were left to take care of the home to take care of the children to take care of, you know, things that are holding the fort down, so to speak. And even even as recent as yesterday, it was Texas Independence Day here, somebody was talking about that as well. Excuse me, but in talking about that, women are afraid nowadays to be left behind by their their spouse or their children, and we're hearing more about the empty nest in their lives being just totally distraught over their children going off to college. And I'm not gonna say that I don't miss my kids. I'm not gonna say that at all. But what I'm going to say Is it opens up the doors for us to spread our wings and we need to be focused on spreading our wings not hiding away and into a shell of ourselves. It's funny that you say that because I have this is my philosophy and I have my mother philosophy of your viewers or your listeners think this is harsh. It's my philosophy. Once you're 18 you graduate you go, right need to go you need to spread your wings. Now, I understand if there might be a maybe a there's an emotional or a non mental but there's some type of a disconnect you haven't connected yet. I'll give you a little bit of time back just gonna kick you out and send you have you fend for yourself against wolves, but I came home one day and they were boxing by the German moms and she got a time we got to go. Right I was almost 19 she had found me a place. I had a job. I think that you know, but that was how I was raised. I do not understand. And I think I've done a post about this somewhere. I do not understand mom's neighbor say, No, no baby, you don't need to you need to you want to live here till you 30 you use you stay there done. Right. Right. Your job. It's your time now. Yeah, I agree. And I was raised in a very strict Christian home, and I read the Bible five times, through through, I did not see anywhere. Then it said in any fine print. You know, they can stay as long as they want. They need to go and you know, create their own household and, and live their lives. You raised them. And now it's your turn. I mean, I have the nice Do we have it like a countdown on them. Turn I've been raising children since I was 12 years old. I am right. It's my time. I want time with my husband. I want it to be just we'll check on you guys. We might even give your address Well, I think I think there's a term called leaving cleave, you know, leaving cleave to something else, not us. Do not give me grandchildren. Raising children, younger sister, so do the world a favor and get a dog grandchildren. And so I'm technically a grandmother. And they look at me and I and my girlfriends are like, really? I'm not saying I don't like babies. I love babies. Right? Like people. In today if you need to travel you need to see the world. You need to contribute any to You need to contribute to charitable causes you need to help other you know, other countries. Now we need to we need to go to Nashville we need to help Nashville right now like right. so horrible what happened in the middle of it. There's so many more important things that need to be focused on then Okay, you're 18 go get married and have children. Exactly. They go and do that they can't fend for themselves and then they come back well in and and i agree we've had we've had a we've got a son that's in the military. We've had had daughters that went off to college, they came back for a period of time and we're we were at the same place of Okay, the clock has started. What What is your action plan what you know, will be a safe place for you to land come back and land if you need to, but yeah, what's the action plan? What's the end result? I kept resetting the timer on the microwave. When my son came home from college. I was like, go take it. And and I, but they appreciate that they think it's hard, you don't understand they're like, No I do sweetheart, things have got changed just because it's, you know, it's 2020, the millennial state of mind is not a mind, I understand, because you do not understand the hardship that those of us who are our older actually went through. Well, and I think I think we also understand how important it is for them to have their independence and to, you know, it's not even just about me for for for my kids, I want them to be strong and solid and independent on their own right, and making good decisions and making a good income and making, you know, good life choices. I don't want them feeling like they're under my wing the whole time because I haven't trained them all these years to stay under my wing. I've trained them to push them out of the nest. Yeah, well And it's like I even told my elder to I have given my mind my body my soul My spirit my everything to raising you and keeping you alive right now trying to invest all of those efforts and energies back into myself. Right? Because I still have the second half of my life and that is equally as important as the rest of your life. So if we're going to roll the dice and mover important at this point, you know it's and and that is I that's what I like to also talk to my clients about it like this is now your time and dive into I really big about faith about whether when no matter what it is, God fear if universe angels whatever it is that you believe in. That is a huge when you lose that you lose yourself, yourself, your sense of self worth, right. And when you tap back in to that through meditation, through prayer through journaling, you're able to kind of like have your eyes reopen to who you really are as an individual, especially as a real woman as a woman. And a lot of times, it's a very uncomfortable process, but it's, it's step one, before we can do any other type of change, it's like, you've got to step back in, tap back into that spiritual sense of who you are, who you were created to be. Right. And, and we're gonna be going to break here in just a few minutes. But when we come back from that break, I want to I want us to talk about the difference between femininity and feminist. I think the feminist word gets, you know, thrown out there and everybody already thinks, you know, angry, bitter woman. But more so than that. I want us to talk about embracing our femininity because that's where our true strength is. I believe and and I love that you talk about this on such a transparent parent level. But I want us to dive into that when we get back from the commercial break so that we can really break that apart just a little bit. And then then we'll go into the fitness side of things after that, but we're gonna take just a couple of minutes to pay for the show with our sponsors, and we will be back in just a second. All right, we are back. And I know we talked before we left for the break in said we were going to come back and talk about embracing our femininity. So So Lucy, let's talk about that for a minute. I know years ago, I went to a women's conference because yes, I go to women's conference, biggest tomboy out there and I still go to women's conference conferences. And one of the ladies was talking about how The color scheme where you had pink for women and blue for men nowadays used to be actually the opposite. Back in the late 1800s to 19 hundred's blue was for women and pink, pink and red were for men. And so we keep mixing things up a little bit. And so when we talk about our femininity I've I left high school I joined the Navy, I worked as an aircraft mechanic then worked in the aviation industry. So in the military, I was called a dude with long hair, basically. But when we go into embracing our femininity, it took me a while to even figure out what that looked like because I had struggled so hard to try and fit in with my male counterparts that I didn't know how to be feminine. And I really didn't understand what feeling comfortable in my own body was and I really did And understand how that led to having close relationships with girls, you know as girlfriends, and what that was all about, because all my guy, all my friends were guys, and then I'm married. And you know my husband and I have this little competition going back and forth because I was trying to compete with him basically for his role in the family. And it ended us in a hot mess. But I want I want to hear a little bit of a taste because I've watched some of your Facebook posts and I've watched some of your talk about femininity and embracing it and really just discovering yourself and I want to hear how you feel to best translate to women the importance of embracing their femininity. I, first of all, I can honestly say I'm right there with you. I had more guys But I do call friends I just don't understand. I don't understand women. And again, I don't know if it was because of being raised by my gentle father I'm not sure what it is, but I know for for me I I can see I'm both sides of that sword in a sense that I can handle my own. But I am a I am I'm a I am a woman I am sweet, I am kind I am sexual I am I incense sensual, I am in tune with my my body and my senses and I'm comfortable in my own skin. I I don't feel and this again is my own opinion based on who I have seen and dealt with who is considered a feminist femininities the harshness that I'm not kidding. competition with my husband in the fact that who has the bigger package or however you want to work that right? Um, there is a role that he has and he is supposed to have. I want him to have that role. That's why I married him. He is our protector. He is our fighter. He, he's the man of the house. But if he needs a warrior right beside him, I am that woman. Right? Doesn't need another man. I am that woman. I am his Joan of Arc. As I like to so eloquently put that and I think in my messages when I am doing my posts or doing my stories is I like to I think I had done one A while ago where I was describing a road. So what from fairway you look at a rose and the roses Beautiful, beautiful, soft, pedal, scented beauty Mostly comes in a variety of colors, whether it's a tight flower or beautifully blooms, but if you get too close, you are going to get pricked by a thorn. Now, is that for the feminist part? Or is that the Thor's disorder protecting her femininity, right? It's all in how you want to look at the flower. But for me, I feel like all women are beautiful roses like we are. We have our authority to protect ourselves, but we are they're beautiful, we are feminine and there's no reason to hide that. to, to be ashamed of that. Is that's what that's how we were created. And not in a sense I mean, that's that's my, that's where I stand on that part of it. I mean, I feel I raising a daughter, raising two daughters when one's out of the house. I look at my daughter and I'm like, I want you to be as strong and I bought her this bracelet. And I said, always remember to adjust your crown. And don't have mine with the train thing. But always remember to adjust your crown. And remember the queen who gave it to you. Hmm, something along those lines, and she was amazing. I just want you to understand that no one is no one is to not knock you down. Because you need to remember where you came from, right who your queen is. Because people knocked me down. had a lot of horrible things happen. I've experienced a lot of things. I've experienced a lot of judgment. Even in the course of that I'm in now I get a lot of messages about some of my posts of like, I don't understand why you talk the way you talk or how you feel the way you feel. And there and it's a lot of times it's from women. And I just looked at my daughter and I said But it doesn't stop me. I'm just gonna get back up and I'm going to keep spreading my message because somebody needs to hear it. Somebody somebody else Can you benefit from what I have to say? Just like someone out there will benefit from what you have to give. And and I wholeheartedly agree with that. You know, one of the things that has happened over the years we started divas impact, like I said about four years ago. And right off the bat, we started getting a bunch of hate mail, mainly from feminist organizations, a few from guys, because they mistakenly thought that we were going to do this as another male bashing organization. And quite honestly, I've told everybody this is absolutely not a male bashing organization. We realize the need for men in our lives, just as we hope men realize the need for us in their lives. We we don't I'm not as concerned about what the guys of the world are saying about us women. I'm more concerned with what we are saying about ourselves and each other. You know, we you know, when You've got examples out there, like Real Housewives of bad behavior or bad girls clubs or whatever that's going on out there. They have the, the opportunity to, to send a such a empowering message. But they don't, you know, because drama sells. And when I was, you know, kind of whispered in my heart to start this organization and and get things going I was like but God I don't like women. I really don't like women their main they're nasty, you know and he's like, Yeah, you've had your episodes too and I'm like, okay, you know to Shay. And I remember a few years ago, whenever, whenever the Donald Trump and Billy Bush news broke, I got a lot of hate mail. You know, why aren't you denouncing Trump and why aren't you denouncing billy bush and why aren't you denounce? In and even with the Harvey Weinstein and, and all of those, and I said, because I'm not focused on them, I'm not letting them dictate my worth, I'm not letting them dictate the worth of all women out there. I'm working on me, I'm focusing on me. And, and and the women that I speak to, and I encourage and I empower and let them know that, yes, bad things can happen to you. But you don't have to live in a victim role anymore, you can live victoriously, and that's, you know, what we're focusing on is walking women out of those dark places. And so for the feminine femininity side of things, what I've also realized is, the more I've embraced my femininity, the more intimate my relationships have become with my girlfriends, the more intimate relationships have come with my family and with my spouse, it because I'm loving myself first before I learned how to love Anybody else and, and to me, that is the difference I see between, you know, saying I'm, I'm into feminism, or I'm into my femininity and and opening myself up to really love myself now loving yourself has a whole other series of side effects, I guess is what you'd call it kind of like a rolling blackout. There's just you start loving yourself and then you go, Oh, I love myself. So I'm gonna go to the doctor and get checked out and make sure I'm healthy. Oh, I love myself. The doctor says I could I could work on fixing these things. So I'm going to work on fixing these things to make sure my body is optimal. And I'm going I'm going to change the way I eat. We've got Kim Slater who does our magazine and and does a lot of the things behind the scenes for us. You know she's in that season right now. We'll have her on the show here in a few weeks. To talk about her health journey that she was flung into, as at the beginning of the year with a massive heart attack and, and in the lessons that she's having to learn for herself, but that whole femininity thing feeds so much of your life. It's what builds up your confidence that gets your husband looking at you with a little bit of, Hey, what do you do? And he's doing it in a way because he's more intrigued because he sees the woman that he was attracted to in the first place. It's interesting that you say that I'll quickly say that, you know, when I started my mild personal transformation last year, before that, you know, I was trying to help other other women men, it didn't matter. I just wanted everybody to be aware about cancer, you know, after losing my father and other health issues that attributed that I just didn't. My goal was I don't want anyone else to lose up Father a husband a daughter of themselves, like listen to the signs so I'm so like, driven like everybody needs to work out get up cheapest way to eat this much water. It was like what I woke up every day but that was my passion and I was ignoring my own health. I was ignoring my own grieving process I was ignoring my own fleet, my own health but mental health spiritual health all the things and as I I got a I did a post about this is something I can recall but I remember looking at a picture of myself. I think it was this past summer and I was like, I thought I was in optimal health working, working out six days a week, eating 1400 to 1600 calories a real food healthy greens all blah, blah, blah. meditating journaling, praying all the things that when I looked at myself I was pale bloated 45 pounds overweight. I just had to like look in my eyes and I was like, I stopped. And I was like, on this task to help other people, when did I stop and take care of myself first? Right. And as soon as I did, I mean as soon as we got home from that trip, I don't remember we went to sun river something. I immediately called a nutritional coach. But I knew right away my doctor just oh my gosh, yeah, go take a nap, you'll be fine. You know, I was like, okay, it's got to be deeper. And I started working with the nutritional coach and I and I stopped helping all the other people. I put everything on hold because I was like, I really wait. I'm suffering from vertigo. My hands are numb, my feet are numb. These are all things I was experiencing but ignore right because I was so passionate about helping other people live their best life and be healthy so you don't die like my daddy. That I I didn't you know, pay them for myself. But as soon as I did that the glow came back the weight when I found out I was insulin resistant. So Kyle was a huge thing. I was borderline type one diabetic. Yeah, the bad one. Yeah, um, I changed my eating habits. I, you know, we changed how I work out, changed how I slept, all of the symptoms went away, the weight falling off. And my husband even looked at me He's like, Oh, my God, baby are glowing. Right? People like, we're looking at my pictures, like, what filter are you using? Now using a filter, you're glowing, but your hair is shiny. And it was like, and I looked at myself, and I was like, I feel beautiful. I don't think and I'm not ashamed of this. This is what I want. Everyone's like, so I reevaluate everything but it was like I'm taking care of myself and like And I had no problem looking at. And hopefully it's okay to say that I had no problem looking in the mirror naked. Right? Because that's a woman as a woman, especially after you've had children. Right with the lights on girl, right? Ugly bathroom lights on, right? Like, that's hard to do, but I didn't know I was like, I am feeling myself right now. Now I'm not gonna go into a changing room lighting and I'm loving and feeling beautiful. I feel sexy. I still sleep. I feel gentle. I feel happy. Because I took care myself first. Right, feel feminine. And that wasn't a feeling I felt all before that is so harsh, hard, poor like, ready to take on the world and compete with everybody else and that wasn't feminine. I don't know if that was coming. Right. Well and I think one of the one of the things we we hear a lot of the times is or you know, I worked in the faith base area before I started out on my own after leaving the corporate arena and I went from dressing like a dude because I was always in jeans and T shirt and then I went to work in the church offices. And I knew I needed to look female but I was just how do I I was putting the outer surfaces on it was like treating the symptoms without treating the actual cause. And I would put on an outfit that everybody go oh that looks so cute on you and I would feel the most uncomfortable ever. And it had nothing to do with the outfit. It had everything to do with the skin I was walking around in I did not feel comfortable in myself. And you know you're talking about people sending you the hate messages and and then asking you what filters you use. You use and things like that, which, you know, they're thinking You look amazing. But on the other side, they're also kind of giving a second backhanded compliment, you know, oh, you can't look that good person. And I remember when we started getting those hate messages, first thing I did, I stood up, I dropped my laptop down, and I stood up and I did a little happy dance. Because it's getting people off their balance a little bit. It's getting them to look at things through a different perspective. Making them question something for themselves will have so and so can do it then maybe I can too. Or what the heck is Angie, the biggest tomboy, we know doing starting a women's organization. What gives her the right i mean, i i've had women go, Oh, that's cute. I'm like, okay, you know, and now they're going well, how do we get in your magazine? How do we get on your show? How do we do this? I'm like, well, there's a process but we're friends. Okay, but there's still a process. And I'm not doing that to be mean or ugly. But, you know, I am looking for the people that want in and want in at the at the ground level, because that means that they understand the vision and the mission, we're going after they're not coming in with ulterior motives to go, Hey, you know, this is great, but let's do this. And, and let's steer this your vision, your goal, your passion, let's steer it to the right a little bit or to the left a little bit, so it fits more of what we want. No, this is what we're going for. This is our niche. This is what we're working on, is equipping and empowering women period, in a variety of different ways. And they're like, oh, bitch, it'd be so much better if you'd sign on with, you know, this organization or that organization and I opened up the organization's page and it's just male bashing and, and hating on each other and Like, yeah, not what we're about. It doesn't resonate. Yeah. And so, when we start talking to women, I've watched women open up after going through all that they've gone through, I see what you're talking about, you see that physical transformation, the light bulb moment that comes on, and their whole life changes. And in, you know, I've shared before that, you know, being a veteran, I'm tied to a lot of veteran communities and and I'm telling you, my veteran sisters are the worst of it. I love them to death. But oh my gosh, they wear me out, because they are so stuck in being a victim, but touting that they're a warrior, but they're living in a victim role, because they don't want to fix anything. And I guess that's our biggest uphill battle is how do we get them to hear it enough to where finally they get fed up and start doing something about it. Yeah, I know I that's it. That's an interesting question. I'm not sure. I mean, I again grazers to me I have all my outside family was actually own Navy. Okay. My first husband was Navy. I'm attracted to the servicemen and I think I got some army leaves in there somewhere. I'm not sure but my dad did not serve the police officer and then my mom got pregnant but and she was like, heck no, you need to come home every day. But I don't know if it's the year you spend. You know, somebody you're being told what to do, when to do how to do it that when you're out, right of that environment. You're like, what I mean, because I know that was part of the premises of like us starting the Lightfoot media. My husband starting that I mean when way back even when he was doing Your podcasts and things that when we first started this whole thing, it was like helping veterans get started because they spent so many years being told. When when to eat, when to make your bed, where to put your shoes on, when to shoot when to do all the things. And then when you're out, it's like nobody's telling you what to do. Right and when to do it. You don't do anything, but you got to do something. And, and I know that that that was that was helpful for a lot of veteran entrepreneurs with being able to go to Eric and him saying, Okay, this is how you start, but I'm you I can only get you so far. You've got to take it from there. Exactly. That might be it for the women desert you know, maybe that's that mindset of like, okay, switch it just a little bit and and remember what that authoritative voice of you being told what to do, and now tell yourself like, speak to yourself in that. Yeah, I mean, I and I like I said, I I'm just speaking from, from experience, veterans wife. Well, and you've had a front row seat to watch all of that. And do we want to go ahead and give you a shout out there? Because in addition to your hats that you wear for fierce and beautiful wellness as a coach there and leading people there, you've just been named CEO of life flip media, haven't you? Yeah. So yeah, yeah, that that is an amazing thing in itself as well. I asked if they came with a pay raise. He says, Wait, we get paid. Yeah, so tell us a little bit about that for just a few minutes. I'm not sure exactly what to say. I think he just woke up one day with a brilliant idea. No, actually, I think it's it's a great power move for him. Because he was actually wearing way too many hats and I, I think it's a great obviously it's a great move for it to be a women ran and owned business. It's a different type of demographic with a power move. So I know that there was a lot of driving behind that. But he takes a lot of guidance and advice of mine. And I really wanted him to be able to focus on what she's really good at, which is working with our customers. And you know, the me I don't understand that part of the business you know, the media bookings and the article places I that part of it I'm like I have too much going on and this three little head of mind when it comes to business when it comes to making sure that we are on the right path. And that our business plan, our business model needs tweaking or just seen or we're not that's my forte. Right? So we just decided to to do a title change. And and I think that puts us a little bit ahead of the game, especially being a woman. Yeah, having that see I mean, I my LinkedIn is blowing up ever since I changed that. Yeah, we're having a business meeting, in fact today because since he made that announcement, just that I know, but I mean, what we're getting into because I'm like, at the end of the day, this is his baby. This is his dream and his but we talked about it for the last year or so. And I just said when you're ready, then I will not lead you astray. Well, that what that is fabulous. You need to change your LinkedIn. I made it official. Yeah. Did you find out From one of his Facebook Lives, or did he actually tell you in person? He told me in person. But you never know. You know, Facebook or my Instagram Stories like what we're doing what I just saw that she didn't tell me. Oh, I literally in the next room. Yeah, you could just tell reviews. Exactly. All right. Yeah, it's an exciting experience for our business. We've had a massive amount of growth. And I want that growth to continue. So I needed him to be in the right, roll on to focus on that, right. Yeah. It's gonna be good. Yeah. And I think we are going to have him on our leading moment show in a few weeks. I've got to get him to get all the stuff together for us to do that. But having him on our leading moment show, to really talk about how to get started and how to do what he does. And encourage and inspire some small business owners on that page for us. So maybe you can join him when we do that call, but of course, yeah, it'll be a black. Yeah. So we're gonna take another break real quick and we will be back after these messages. All right, we are back with Lucy Mitchell. We are talking about her fierce and beautiful wellness and mindset coaching and all that she does that makes her glamorously beautiful, inside and out. So as we go into this next next segment of our show, what I want to talk with you about is more. I'm going to tell you, this is all purely selfish. I'm going to preface that right off the bat. So a few weeks ago, right before Christmas, peloton came out with that commercial about the bike and everybody lost their flippin mind over it. You know, that was sexist. That was this that was that and I'm sitting here going well, what we didn't See, he was maybe she asked for the bike. Maybe she didn't because you know, quite honestly, I would like a peloton. But my husband kind of refuses to buy me one right now because I made such a big deal at a date. He took me out on one night he took me to dinner as he goes, you want to go to Jason's deli, so not particularly. He goes, come on, we can go get a salad bar. Fine, you know, so we go to Jason's deli, and we get the salad bar and we eat our dinner. And then we go to Walmart, which we had to get dog food or whatever. And he goes back to the bike bicycle section back there. And he's like, Hey, I was looking at these the other day. Did you see this bike? Do you want this bike? This bike would be a fun bike to have. Don't you want? Don't you don't want a bike? I do not want a bike. He's like, Oh, come on. You'd have fun with this one. You'd like this one. Are you sure you don't want this bike? Come on. We ended up walking out of Walmart with a bike that night. So I told him I said the theme of that whole date was Hey, you're complaining about not feeling good. So why don't you lose some weight and ride a bike, you know, eat a salad ride a bike. So we give him grief over that all the time. But my biggest thing is not about riding that bike. It's about I've had some balance issues, I've had some things that I just don't trust, the agility of my body right now. So balancing myself on two wheels is kind of a freaky idea to me, but I like the peloton idea because I feel like I could slowly progress until I got that confidence back. But, you know, you said that you the reason I'm bringing all that up is because, you know, you said that you like to cycle and you're a fitness fanatic and in So talk to me about I know some people that say jump all in, go all in and go as hard and as fast as you can until your body stops you and then there's people that are going, alright, if you're going to fail at that, then you need to ease yourself into So, I know you kind of help people break down their mental hurdles over things like this. So help me break down mine for a little bit. Okay? Nothing like putting you on the spot. the peloton is amazing. Um, and that ad was ridiculous because we don't know the backstory, right? So why people got all on the Tuesday just because she happened to be skinny doesn't mean anything because there could have been a whole mental thing. She could have been skinny because she had an eating disorder. And you know, and so moving her body was going to help this so she could eat real food, there could have been a myriad of things, or it could have been that she had social anxiety to go outside. So she got the bike so that she could like, start to connect with people. There's so many different things that I deal with on a daily basis. I You know, I use a virtual workout platform, through Beachbody on demand. Mm hmm. Because I do work from home so a lot of my workouts are done through that platform. I do have the peloton and then I do love my local cycle bar cycle bar and Tiger get your shout out. But he has always been when I talk to everyone is you start at step one, do you look at a baby and prop them up and tell them to run a marathon? Right? No. Step a step by step. I've been working with my mother who has bad knees and it's always been an excuse. What has not worked out a day in her life. She's 68 years old. She talks every day about losing the weight. And I say okay, Mama. Well, it's, you know, 80% nutrition, it's 20% movement. So you've made your choice. If you want to eat the way you want to eat that by the left Work on the 20% of movement. Maybe it's just you sitting in a chair with one pound weight, and you're doing bicep. Right? And you're just working on understanding the movement and we go up to two pounds until you feel confident and comfortable. You know, or I'll work with other people that say, Okay, if you have a problem with consistency, do not find an eight week 10 week program, because you're going to be done after two days. All right. Start with something that is and there's so many apps out there, I'll backtrack there so you don't have to do just what I do, which is Beachbody. I always say there are so many peloton has a free app and that you can use on any bike on a treadmill. They have weighted programs, they have yoga, they have wonderful meditation programs that I love to use. And there are other apps as well that you could download that has on if you Have a beginner where you start at and that and you start at basically what you're comfortable with. And if it's just one day you conquered that one day you're winning. And you could go on to day two. And there's been many times that I've started over. I mean, I had three babies, I had to be one. Sometimes Mondays every Monday is my day one, especially if you're a football team. Day one, right after the Super Bowl is day one. But I think you know, I you always want to talk to your doctor to start and talk to your doctor about any current medical conditions that you have. And then be you have to have an internal conversation with yourself and be like, how important is this to you, not to others to yourself. Right? What changes are you wanting to see logically, ideally, we want to wake up tomorrow and be 50 pounds lighter, all because we took two steps down the street. I ran a marathon there. Go I should eat 50 pounds lighter, right? It doesn't work that way. I ate a salad. And I bought a bike at Walmart. I lost 50 pounds. Right now, that doesn't work that way. It's a great start. But I but I always say you have to write out a plan and you have to write out a plan that will work for you. And if you can't do that alone, and that's when you reach out to people like me, who says, Okay, we're going to start with just the day one we're gonna do a four week plan. And after you talk to your doctor, you've gotten clear that there's nothing you have stability issues. I'm not going to say I want you to start balancing on one foot if you have stability issues, that's not you're going to get discouraged and defeated. But if you can handle you know, you can go for a 30 minute walk. Walking is one of the most beneficial 30 minutes a day walking is one of the most beneficial kick starters to a weight loss journey out there. Not cycling, not weightlifting. Plain old, angry dog. Well, I think just being outside helps mentally and emotionally and then and then the movement, you start waking up parts of your body that you don't realize were asleep. Well, not only that, but then you're also you're getting if you're, you're getting a break from the kid. Maybe it's a stronger and go for a walk. But if it's, if you're cooped up in the house all day or you've been in an office all day long, you get outside you get the fresh air, you get the oxygen from all of the plants that are around you. You get cute you're around nature, you could put the personal development into your ears and start a good book. Listen to an amazing podcast. I don't know maybe warrior diva out there. Um, you know, and and you're not only working your body, but you're working your mind. Those two working together will kick start an amazing weight loss sustainable journey. Well, I think that's where I start. I think a few years ago I I lost roughly 100 pounds and I did that strictly by walking there was there I changed you know, I'd done some intermittent fasting I had done some other things you know as far as weight loss goes, it was all around nutrition and walking. That was it. And I walked five miles a day. I didn't start off walking five miles a day I started off being winded walking down the street and back but it you know, by the time I was to a good steady pace, I was at five miles in under an hour. But I kept you know, going okay, well I've kind of nailed this I'm, I'm one of those people that are not consistent. So I'm adaptable is my number one strength I'm the Strength Finders thing, which means I can roll with the punches but I always strategic backs it up. So I always have something else. I'm planning in background to if this goes awry, I already know where we're going next. So the whole walking thing was fabulous for me because it helped with the weight loss. It was, whenever I tried to stretch beyond that, I started pushing my limits. And about that time is when the doctor says, you know, you really don't need to be doing any hit right now. Any high intensity, you need to keep it low. Well, that kind of took the wind out of myself and I kind of sunk back into. Oh, but see, I like the CrossFit stuff. I like some of those things. And he's like, yeah, just not right. Now. He goes, let's get some of this other stuff under control. And then we can go in there. And then it just made me feel old and grumpy. And there was a mental game that I was having to battle for a while over that. Because, you know, that was there was almost like I was accepting a sentence that he wasn't even giving me he was just saying, Let's get you to a certain point before we start doing that. And I was like, Well, if I'm not there, I don't want to I don't want to work any harder to get there. It's not coming off fast enough. It's not doing what I want it to do fast enough. And like you said, We live in an instant gratification society, you order in a box, and you drive to a window, and it's there. So we want the weight loss to come off just as fast as that burger is delivered through that window. Yeah, and I think I was talking to a potential client, in fact, just this past weekend, who was like, I have been doing keto for six weeks, and I've gained six pounds and I'm doing CrossFit. six days a week and I don't understand why nothing is moving in. And I said, Okay, well, that's what I'm hearing is what you're doing for the last six weeks isn't working. So we're going to start over and she looked at me and I said, don't get defeated. What I've seen because I have not been working with her and I've been what I would recommend. Okay, continue to CrossFit. That's it. Yes, that's it, you live naked. But women over the age of 40 do need weightlifting. cardio is not as important once you get past the age of 40. Because our our muscles and the way our bodies work, our muscles will hold on to fat. Because there's a fight or flight like, Oh, you don't want to have babies anymore. So we're going to hold on to this fact just in case you change your mind. So that way we have a way to support a baby. And I'm like, when did my muscles get to decide if I'm a child Barry like right yours anymore, like you could release that fat anymore. Done and done. It's the science behind it. So weightlifting expands your muscles to release the fat. It's the right type of weightlifting. If you're doing strenuous weightlifting like crossfitters do and I didn't cross it for two years and my father looked at me and said, I'm finally getting the son. I never had Alright, we're going to stop doing that. Yep. Um, so I was like, okay, it's CrossFit works for for certain individuals, and it is great, but just tone it down, don't need to be deadlifting 75 100 pounds or whatnot, stick with just the barbell, and maybe do just four days a week, if you really love that community in that workout, right? And give your body two days of full rest. And that one day can be a day of restoration of yoga, and meditation of maybe walking or whatnot. And I said, and then we'll look, then we look at the diet. And let's maybe do low carb instead of keto, because keto is not long term. No, it's not. If you're gaining weight on keto, which is meant to put your body in a state of ketosis, you should be losing weight. So something else is going on. And I gave her a list of recommendations that I would you know, I'm not a doctor. I just say I would take this list and talk to your doctor about the certain tests, maybe check if your insulin resistant. What's your glucose level? How's your body reacting to certain sugars, things of that nature? And, and it gave her a little bit of hope but but, you know, you've got to do your research and there's sometimes there's a little bit of adjustment and whatnot that I mean, and that's the recommendation. And actually, she just emailed me a little while ago. And then she'd like to work with me. Because her doctor didn't give her the answers that she wanted. And I wish she got more information from me, which is like, amazing, but it's just like, the information is out there. You just have to know how to educate yourself, as well as know the right people to talk to you. And a lot of times doctors just want to get you in and out. And it's just knowing how our bodies change. But once I found out that our bodies want our money, they want to hold on to that because they want us to still have babies. I was like, no, that's not okay. So, yeah, it's that's what I that's what I tell women. That's how I work with with some of my clients. is just sometimes you just got to read That's the wheel just a little bit and it'll kick start your journey and do it the healthy way. Well, I think, I think you also touched on something else as she was paying attention to her body and listening to it going, Okay, what I'm doing is not working. So therefore, something's off. I need to have another person come in and give me an outside view. Because a lot of times we don't even talk to other people about this. We just kind of suffer in silence. Oh, well, I tried this diet or I tried this exercise or I tried this lifestyle change. It didn't work for me. And a lot of the times, it may be just one turn of the wrench to get you running optimally. You know what in NASCAR, they talk about a quarter turn on the the car could totally make the car loose or tight. You know, and a lot of the times it's fine tuning what our lifestyle is and and it's not a throw it all out mindset it's a let's keep making the adjustments until we find what's working and and I think that's where a lot of people give up is they just go oh well I tried that it didn't work well let it's not cookie cutter it's definitely not cookie cutter. And that's why I share so much of my journey on my social media because that's how she found me on and watch how I went from being so cookie cutter to not sharing too much to them all the sudden sharing this new way, you know, when I discovered what was working for me and then really just sharing that it's it's individualistic, right to listen to how your body is responding to, to certain foods to certain movements. And when the ultimate goal I know for me was that I'm not going To be a diabetic, I that's just not what I want my children to see, that's not the life that I want to live. And this is my time right now to change this. And it goes back to making those sacrifices, you know, as a mom and as a woman, like I have to I have to be selfish right now. Right? Because I can't be a mom to my kids, if I'm constantly having to give myself shot. And I'm drained from all these doctor visits everything and what kind of mom Am I going to be for my children? What kind of wife Am I going to be for my husband? What kind of business owner Am I going to be for my clients and for a company? If I'm confused by this, you know, that I'm now I didn't take action. Right. Well, and I think I had I had a friend a couple of years ago that that passed away and she passed away from a recurrence of her breast cancer after her first recurrence of breast cancer she got healthy, she ate the right foods. She did everything right. And the cancer came back and, and she did have a genetic disposition to it as well as you know, other things that that brought it back. But I heard several people say, Well, if she ate everything and did everything right, and she got the cancer again, then what's gonna keep me from getting it and just trying to shift people's mindset to go that you can't go down that road, we are all created differently. We all have a unique DNA to us, that keeps us keeps our bodies moving. There are things in my family history, you know, I've got diabetes on both sides of the family. So I have to be mindful of that and I have to start putting things in place to to not go down that path. But on the other side of it is I also got a couple of cases of cancer on one side of my family. I could park my boat Go, well, you know, diabetes and cancer, they're in the cards for me. So I don't really need to work out, I really don't need to do this stuff because that's what's gonna get me in the end or I saw them try these things, it didn't work for them, so I'm not going to try them. Even though they're my relatives, I'm still uniquely created. And I it does not mean that it's an end result that I will catch that or that I won't be able to beat it. What what I think I've heard you say most all today in several different ways is taking care of yourself sets you up for so much more. And even if it is an illness that comes your way, you're better prepared mentally, emotionally, physically, for taking that that illness on head on, head on because if you're already out of shape, you're already feeling frumpy, you're already down in the dumps. You're definitely not in the mental and emotional state to take on a major illness, that if you're taking care of yourself in so many other ways, than if something comes out of left field, you're much more better positioned to go in in a warrior stance against that. Exactly. Yep, that is correct. And so, so you also do I mean, we talked a little bit before the break about how you do. You're the CEO of life flip media, you you do this as well as, you know, the fitness coaching and mindset coaching. So you're talking about, you know, feeling comfortable in your skin, not letting fear of missing out, you know, derail you. As we get ready to go into the last part of our show, I want you to kind of talk to us about what is the overall message edge that you really feel like you are here and put here on earth to accomplish share anything you want to share about your story and and how you can encourage and empower other women. You shared so much already it's gonna be a rich rich show but we just want to hear from from you as to what what you feel is your mark in the world and how you can help the women that are listening today. Well, I think I stop by called by many a unicorn. And that's that, you know, one of a kind, type individual. And I really do embrace that label. Because I've actually worked really, really hard to to be what other women cannot be And then turn around show them how they can be. So when it comes to self love, you know, we I know personally I have experienced so many things in my life that have shaped me to who I am today and why I want to help other women, my innate need to help others I was a hairdresser for 21 years I was an accountant, I helping my husband, I've PTA volunteer, room volunteer pretty much you need help moving I'm that person. My Drive was always to make other people happy. And and I realized that the end of the day was to fill the void of the lack of happiness in my own life due to abuses and whatnot that I experienced in my childhood. And in working with a life coach over the last year when I was able to finally understand what self love really meant, and how to forgive Others for what was done to me, I really, there's so many women I've even come across in my life that are experiencing that lack of self love. And they're masking it with food, with alcohol with shame, with abusive relationship with a lack of connection to their face. Blaming the world blaming society blaming others for their experiences. And my whole purpose in life is to use the platform that I've been given and my voice to a let them know it's going to be okay. That it's, it's not your fault. Everything is fixable, everything is figured out a ball. And if you need help figuring out that first step, no matter what it is, whether it's your relationship with food, whether it's emotional weight, whether it's physical weight, whether their spiritual weight whether it's figuring out how to take that first step on a treadmill, whether it's that first step on how to learn how to write a letter to your younger self, to forgive your younger self to connect with your younger self. I'm here because that's that's my that's my purpose now. And and it brings me joy I wake up every single day now hoping I'm going to connect to just one, even if it's just one person, and sometimes that one person is myself. It's like I reconnect with myself in some way I discover something more amazing about myself that I had buried or hidden deep down below. Because when when we carry all those burdens, when we feel like our only soul what job in this world is to be a mom. Or are we have no value as a woman in today's society. Or we've only known what it's like to be in the military. We don't know what it's like to be a veteran or are we were a mom and now we're an empty nester and we have no purpose and we were away for now we're divorced and we have no we have no wives or whatever it may be. You can lose yourself and you can lose that definition of what a What a beautiful woman really is. And that's where I come in. And then unconventional. Just sit down have a real talk over a glass of Chardonnay in our closets and that's what we need to do. kind of way I am not I I'm serious. I mean, I have been there I am sat in the closet with a bottle of Chardonnay. My husband's like what do you do and go away? Right I'm in a moment Hmm. And and it's okay. And and I don't I don't have it all figured out. I am not the leading expert in this you do not see me sitting on Oprah couch. I am one of many in this field. I just feel like we need as many voices as possible right now. Exactly. It's it's a layered approach to one I think, I think a lot of what I've seen you say and I've heard you say, we're watching you on social media and listening to you today is, you know, there's a lot of women out there looking for somebody to be an accountability partner for them to lead them to give them to you know, just actually listen to them and hear them and and you're willing to be that person you're willing to take that task on for them if that's what they need, until I told people for the long This time, one of my best friends I worked with her at the church before and, and we would go to the gym and her name was Kim Yates and we would go to the gym and we'd get on the treadmill and she'd go, I go, Okay, how how long do you want to go? And she goes, I want to go for 30 minutes at a two mile pace, he you know, and I'm like, okay, so I punch that all in, and we get going. And about three minutes in, she's like, I'm really not feeling it. And I'm like, sorry, you said you wanted to go for 30 minutes. We're going 30 minutes left, right, left, right, come on, let's go. Let's go, let's go. Let's go, you know, and and we finished the 30 minutes. She'd come to me, I'm like, we're gonna do a five mile an hour pace. You know, this is the incline we're gonna do. We'd get on and about five minutes and I'd say I don't feel like doing it. And she'd go great. Let's go get some chips and salsa. She was great for certain areas of my life fitness was not one of them. And so one of the things I want to encourage women that are listening today is if you've got those friends that are great and holding you accountable in your marriage and your spiritual life and all these other areas, I guarantee you most of the time, it's not the same person that can handle all of those areas for you. So I encourage you to reach out to someone like Lucy, who is great in what she does and in the fitness realm and, and in the mental mental improvement mindset improvement sorry, in the mindset realm as well I went mindset blank on that. You too can be a professional radio show host. But anyway, when you when you are coaching them through the min

Books have been so transformative for me and for good reason. Over the past year, I have been consuming more information via hard copy books and audiobooks.  Because I've been reading more, I wanted to share the top 7 books that have really made the biggest difference.  Here are several links where you can order the books to start reading yourself. I'd love for you to share with me on Instagram which books you are currently obsessing over. Find me at @thechelseaholden and take a screenshot and tag me. ✌

Lilly Diabetes announced they were getting into the pump and pen business almost two years ago. How’s it going? We get an update from Marie Schiller, Vice President of Product Development for Connected Care and Insulins at Eli Lilly – Connected Care is what they’re calling this platform of pumps and pens – now to be integrated with Dexcom. Check out Stacey's new book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! We’ll also have a bit of an update on some other pump companies’ plans for the near future.. bolus from your phone?! In TMSG a big fish, a hula hoop winner and a chance meeting over a foot? Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider. Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode Transcript:   Stacey Simms  0:00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop created for people with diabetes by people who have diabetes by Real Good Foods, real food, you feel good about eating, and by Dexcom take control of your diabetes and live life to the fullest with Dexcom.   Announcer  0:21 This is diabetes connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  0:27 This week, Eli Lilly announced they were getting into the pump and pen business almost two years ago. How's it going? We get an update. And of course I asked about price and access.   Marie Schiller  0:38 Look, we're not here for the sake of having this innovation sit on a shelf somewhere, not why I'm here. It's not why others are here. And so it is really important for us to be laser focused on how people act. So   Stacey Simms  0:53 that's Marie Schiller, Vice President of Product Development for connected care and insulins at Lilly We'll also have a bit of an update on some other pump companies plans for the near future. Well, let's sing from your phone in Tell me something good a big fish, a hula hoop winner, and a chance meeting over a foot. This podcast is not intended as medical advice. If you have those kinds of questions, please contact your health care provider.   Welcome to another week of the show. I am your host Stacey Simms, so glad to have you along for another week. As always, we aim to educate and inspire by sharing stories of connection. My son was diagnosed 13 years ago with Type One Diabetes. My husband lives with type two. I do not have diabetes, but I have a background in broadcasting. And that's how you get the podcast. I'm excited to catch up with Lilly. I know a lot of people don't want to hear anything from them until they address the price of insulin. And I do understand that I want to be sensitive to that. And I definitely asked Marie all about that. Even though she has nothing to do with the price of insulin but she doesn't work at Lilly and this system. I can't be really separated from that, let's be honest. But I also think I have a responsibility to share what's going on in terms of diabetes technology, and Lilly plans to be a big player in this space. So that's what the interview is all about. We'll be talking about their system. We'll be talking about their partnership with Dexcom and other things as they move forward. Before we get to that, I want to thank Kerri Sparling and the folks at children with diabetes. We replayed the interview that Kerri did with me this was on their YouTube channel and then last week in the kind of the mini episode although it wasn't really a mini we replayed the audio from that interview. It's always a little weird for me to be on the other side of the microphone, but it's always a lot of fun to I bring it up not to hammer on the interview again, if you wanted to see it or listen, you know, you know where to find it and I will link it up in this episode. But because they are doing a contest. The contest is open until March 20. And to enter you do have to email them so I will link that As well, it's over on the children with diabetes a website. But all of these links will be in the episode homepage. They're giving away a paperback of the world's worst diabetes mom and the audio version. So I'd love for you to go and enter and find out more on their websites. Speaking of the book, I am having such a blast on the book tour that I'm doing this year. You know, we'll see how it goes. Obviously there are some health scares out there right now. And I'm not sure that all the events are going to stay as scheduled for right now. They're all on the books that's on the website as well. And if you're interested in the world's worst diabetes mom, that's an easy place to find out more but I have to share with you that I got a great note from a woman in Australia who listens to the show and you know, has read my book she bought it you can get it on Amazon really in so many countries now print on demand is absolutely amazing. And she got it in Australia and she reached out to me because her local group wants to do a bulk order. So we are doing that. And if you have a situation like that where you would like a little large number of books for your group. please reach out to me directly. You don't have to just buy it on Amazon for the full retail price. I am happy to work with you. My publisher has given me some ways to do this. That really makes sense. It's an amazing thing to think about people all over the world reading the world's worst diabetes mom. It didn't say America's worst diabetes mom. So I guess I have to stand by that now. All right. We will have the interview with Marie Shiller from Lilly coming up in just a moment. But first let me tell you about Real Good Foods Diabetes Connections is brought to you by them. Have you tried their cauliflower crust Margarita pizza. They have a full size and a personal size as well. So yummy. It is low carb high protein real simple ingredients. And you know you gotta be careful because some cauliflower crust pizzas are made with corn starch. You know rice flowers, processed grains. And if you're looking for something that is 100% grain free and gluten free, this is what you're looking for. I love how Real Good Foods keeps creating Eating new products, they keep coming out with new yummy foods for us. It's the kind of thing where you as soon as you don't feel like cooking, sometimes you want the convenience. And when you go for convenience, you really don't want to sacrifice nutrition, right? I mean, you don't want to just pull out some junk food. I love Real Good Foods, it tastes terrific. And the people behind them are solid. They get involved in our community. They listen to what we have to say. It's really nice, find out more, go to diabetes, connections comm and click on the Real Good Foods logo.   My guest this week is Marie Schiller Vice President of Product Development for connected care and insolence at Lilly. Two years ago, I was part of a group of writers and reporters from the diabetes community invited to Cambridge, Massachusetts, to take a look at Lilly's entrance into the pump and pen market to give feedback on those plans and to hear from their partners. We did an episode back then and I'll link up what I and others wrote at the time. No pictures still of what they show. Very briefly that day, they showed us kind of the prototype, but it is a tiny pump. It's kind of like a fat little disc. It's much smaller than an omni pod pod. It's maybe about the size of the tee sport that tandem is coming out with. I'm actually going to talk more about that after this interview a pump update from tandem some news from Omni pod. We'll get to that after this interview, but I'll put up some photos of the T sport, but this is thinner than that the Lilly pump is just a small thin disc. It is tubed. So the idea is that you can stick it to your body or use longer tubing and put it in your pocket. We do talk about that. It'll fit in the palm of your hand very easily. Of course we do talk about the price of insulin, and what that means for access of anything coming from Philly. So here's my interview with Marie Schiller. Marie thanks for talking to me. I'm excited to catch up. It's been about almost two years since we've MIT in Cambridge, thanks for coming on the show.   Marie Schiller  7:02 Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be back.   Stacey Simms  7:05 All right, so give us the update. I know we're going to talk about the partnership with Dexcom and some other things that Lilly is working on. But when we last left this episode, the last time we talked at least in person, you over talking about the device that Lilly had been working on, can you give us an update on that   Marie Schiller  7:25 I can and maybe to be helpful Stacy just to remind the audience of what we've been working on. So Lilly has a personalized diabetes management system that is incorporating inform delivery devices, software and analytics. And obviously that will be combined with glucose data and other contextual information in order to hopefully to improve diabetes management. We have two parts of that system. So we obviously have a pen based platform where we'll be using our refill disposable insulin pen, with data coming in from glucose monitoring devices and be able to combine that with different elements of care in that platform. And then the pump based platform, which would be a hybrid closed loop system, integrating the the pump itself in with a continuous glucose monitoring and an algorithm as well. So that's the journey we started on. I think we were we had not just kicked off the program when we last talked a couple years ago, but it was certainly early in the development program. It's been a frankly, an awesome couple of years is advancing both of those areas we had started I know when we last talked, but with the development agreement with Dexcom, which we have continued to advance our relationship with Dexcom and now have entered into a global commercialization agreement with them. We continued our clinical trials with the pump based system we'll be talking about Some of the first clinical data will be shared this coming February at the the conference in Madrid at TCU. And on the connected pen side we have, so we secured a supplemental drug approval for the pen that will be compatible with the personalized diabetes management system. And we're in the midst of working with the FDA on the other components of the system that we will need to bring forward and launch the entirety of that integrated solution.   Stacey Simms  9:35 So there's a lot of moving parts, there are a lot of different things going on. You mentioned the clinical trials, and let's kind of take this step by step. I'm sure you can share the information ahead of the release. But what were you looking for this was for the pump system. Was this a safety trial? Was this an outcome trial? Can you share any information   Marie Schiller  9:55 for you know, I won't go into any details that we will be sharing at the conference, but As has been seen with other products going through on that hybrid closed loop system, we are focused on showing that the system is functioning accurately. So we are looking at that first stage looking at different you know, stress situations with the system making sure the system is responding as we would expect it to respond. And obviously as part of that is the safety of the system.   Stacey Simms  10:27 So, as we're talking about this system, what's so intriguing about it to me is that it is a pump, but it acts more like a pod. At least it did when I last saw it or I saw a mock up of it even so is it still that way it's very teeny tiny, but it it acts as a tube pump with a very small tube that goes into a traditional inset Is that still the hardware?   Marie Schiller  10:47 It is so we what we like to call it is that is a hybrid system meeting on the days that you want to carry it and put it in your pocket or wherever is your choice of carrying it. You could use a standard length infusion set or a long infusion set, whatever your preference, but on days that you wanted to wear it, and adhere it to your body, you could do that. And so it would still work with a standard catheter infusion set, but you would obviously be using a shorter tube in that instance, if you choose to wear it on those days.   Stacey Simms  11:24 You know, it's funny, Marie, I've I didn't ask this when I first saw it two years ago, and I keep thinking about it, because now tandem has a I don't know where they are in their development stage. They have the T sport which sounds very similar that they're hoping to come out with. How do you actually were these tubes, tiny tubes, pumps, the hybrid pumps on the body? Did they just kind of dangle from the tube? Do you stick them to your skin? Does it work?   Marie Schiller  11:47 Yeah, I can't comment on tandem. It's a great question though. Stacey, you know, obviously with our so there's an adhesive component where you are wearing the pump. It's not obviously on the infusion set right? But ours is where you would be adhering to the pump itself.   Stacey Simms  12:04 And my frustration was I thought you're gonna say I can't tell you anything. But that's great. There's like a sticky on the pump and it sticks to your skin. does it stick to the body? Like a? Is it like a Dexcom? sticky? Or is it like the ever since which is more like what I call a color forms? Remember those color forms? You could take them on and off and on and off? Is it more like that? Or is it once it's stuck to your skin? Then you kinda have to pry it off.   Marie Schiller  12:34 Yeah, I may, at this point, just pull back a little bit because I think I may be going down. I may be going down the rabbit hole as if I'm trying. I feel like I'm going to be playing a game of charades as I try to walk you through how the system works. And it may be more confusing than helpful. So yeah, as I mentioned that you have the ability to wear it and there's an adhesive system and we'll leave it at that.   Stacey Simms  12:59 All right. But it's very interesting. So then my next question is, do you know if Lilly is going to be developing new infusion sets? And I asked this because I've shared for years and years, and I'm not the only one, that I really think that the traditional infusion sets are the weak link of any pump. They're just not great. And I'm always hoping that somebody is going to come up with a better one. Any chance, this is part of your plan?   Marie Schiller  13:24 as we've talked about, look, we are looking at all components of the system. Right. And so we are starting with our core system, we're looking at all aspects of the system. I would say, you know, it's hard for me to say yes or no, on that side. I think we're looking at the need in the marketplace. Right. I think on that infusion set side. I'd be curious to sort of hear your experience with that. I think in in some of the research we've seen, it's different sort of aspects where people would say they'd like improvement. Clearly. Extended wear is something that we're hearing a lot I know jdrf and others Groups are focused on that. But what areas are high on your list   Stacey Simms  14:03 that they work better, that that you can push more insulin through them that they don't get kinked and they don't get occluded. And they don't need to know that they're, they're not as damaging to the skin that they're not as painful that I feel I could go on and on. But truly, I really think they're the weak link of pumping and you know that they even what was the one from BD for a while like it had a better flow, it didn't just float the bottom of the canula even to be able to rotate it there was one you used to be able to spin you know, that would go with that would turn you know, there's there's so much so sure, I'll be in a focus group anytime or recall me.   Marie Schiller  14:38 I'm taking furious notes here to make sure I get all of this feedback because this is exactly what we need to hear, you know, and exactly what we're excited about. I think we just continue to feel that there are so much room for improvement on these systems. Albeit we've made a ton of progress today. But these are all of the nuances right then each of us I deal with every day and why, you know, the more innovation the better and space where we can continue to look at all of these elements and make progress.   Stacey Simms  15:09 So let's talk about the pen system too, because that's very useful and very fascinating. The pen is, as you had already said, It is not just an insulin pen, it is part of a connected system. Can you talk a little bit about what that means? We've mentioned Dexcom. already. I assume you use your phone. You can see where you've been it recommends dosing, that kind of thing.   Right back to my talk with Marie but first One Drop is diabetes management for the 21st century. One Drop was designed by people with diabetes for people with diabetes. One Drops glucose meter looks nothing like a medical device. It is sleek, compact, and seamlessly integrates with the award winning One Drop mobile app, sync all your other health apps to One Drop to keep track of the big picture and easily see health trends. And with a One Drop subscription you get unlimited test strips. lancets delivered right to your door. Every One Drop plan also includes access to your own certified diabetes coach have questions but don't feel like waiting for your next doctor visit your personal coach is always there to help go to diabetes connections calm and click on the One Drop logo to learn more. Now back to Marie answering my question on what a connected system means and whether the pins help keep track of dosing   as we expect.   Marie Schiller  16:28 It does so as we mentioned, it's based on the the quick pen platform is is a core component of it. So if you look at the quick pen platform that we offer in forums and we have our current basic lar influence and humor log both in the half unit one unit and two units, and then we have our ultra rapid insulin that's under review today. So as in and I don't know what's your son ever on 10 before you move to pump,   Stacey Simms  16:58 he was actually uncertain Because the dosing was so teeny tiny, and they didn't even have half units, but he was on quarter units. But we have since we use pens a lot, because it's a backup for him. If he gets to fly and feels like his infusion set isn't working, he'll take a shot. And he is also a little unusual in that we use. We use a long acting shot with the pump. So he does use a pen every day.   Marie Schiller  17:25 Okay, well, then you're familiar with it. And I can share with you that I was a pumper for years. And now I'm back to two shots, as we all sort of go through those journeys, but what I was going to describe is when you're taking those informs, especially as you know, you're taking the long acting in the short acting. There are just some basic elements that we still don't have today, right? You're running out the door, you're trying to get your son to school or I'm trying to get to work that I did I just take that shot or not again, remember right and just some of the most the simplest aspects of being able to be like up there. If I took that dose, right, and being able to have that check in place, but there are, you know, as you move down that level of sophistication, most people on informer fire some level of glucose testing, whether that is blood glucose monitoring, or as we're doing with the continuous glucose monitors. So the idea is, is that you would have the informed data from the pen, you would have your glucose data, whether that's blood glucose or CGM data, and you would take that in integrate them into this diabetes management system that depending on what you want, is how you would interact with that system. So some would have a preference of saying, you know, when I'm doing okay, or my regimen maybe easier, I don't need as much variation. So, for me, it's a place that I can capture that data and not have to go to different places to get that data for others having some different elements of support in that system. will be beneficial, right? If you think about things on the Faisal influence side for people with type two diabetes faisel, type tration as you get started on the insulin, or maybe after I'm on insulin for a couple years, how do I make sure I'm optimizing? Right? You can go through sort of that journey and see all of these different places where how we can do better than we're doing today. And I'm honing in on the glucose data and the informed data. So we all know I sometimes say life gets in the way right exercise and food you know, all those things that are pretty standard, but for a lot of us can make the road pretty bumpy as we're out there. So you know, over time being able to get the system smarter and smarter with that exercise data and then learning system. So, you know, we all talk about the algorithms that are out today are very much rule based systems right if my glucose is going up by default Like take this action and then be informed is delivered in the future. It may be well for Marie, her level is going up at x rate. And that's, that's not good for Marie versus for Stacey, that might be okay. Because I've trended back and looked at that data and say, you know, we're going to predict that she won't get to an elevated level as an example. Right. So if you start thinking about the personalization of these algorithms over time, it will not be day one, as we all know, it's going to take a lot more research and beta for us to be able to continue to get to that ideal state.   Stacey Simms  20:41 So I'm trying to read between the lines. So the plan sounds like it is to launch with a more let's call it a more static algorithm. Like we just started using control IQ from tandem which is a hybrid closed loop software system. It is a great system for us so far, but it doesn't learn anything. It's probably If This Then That, but it doesn't learn my size. Okay, it's not personalized. So I assuming you're kind of saying that Lilly will launch in a similar way, but the idea would be to eventually get to a learning algorithm.   Marie Schiller  21:11 Yes, I think that's a fair statement.   Stacey Simms  21:14 All right. So let's talk about the announcement that you're gonna be working with Dexcom. Just if you could spend a minute talking about what that means. It's not exclusive as I read the release that y'all sent over. So it sounds pretty interesting. Let's start with what it means first to work with Dexcom are they making? Sometimes there's, I hear special transmitters for certain things, certain software for certain things. Is this a Lilly Dexcom? Original?   Marie Schiller  21:39 no meaning we are basing it off of the transmitter that Dexcom has. So we will be compatible with the G six and we'll continue to work with Dexcom in our development arrangement as they continue to iterate and we continue to iterate to make sure we've got access to each other's latest technologies right because the last thing any of us want to do in these collaborations is to be behind in generation integration, right? I mean, that's what was happening and some of the first generation systems, right, you got people still on, I think it was what g4, and they'd want to be moving to the G six, and there was no way to do those updates, or the G five. So we've established our development, work with them and ability to make sure that we can continue to be running in parallel, as each of our platforms evolve over time. So it will be based on their latest transmitter based on our latest pump in our latest pen, and be able to integrate the the CGM data from Dexcom system into the diabetes management system, where some of the functionality that I talked about before could be available.   Stacey Simms  22:53 So I'm always trying to read between the lines You'll have to forgive me but when I see a press release that says non exclusive, I'm always thinking, you know I don't know of too many, or any pump systems. Gosh, it's so funny to say that Marie, because there's really only a couple in the US. But I don't know if I hear we hear a lot about interoperability, but it isn't here. Yeah. So my question, I guess, is when I see now exclusive, I'm thinking, Okay, are you do you have an eye to working with other CGM companies? And is that practical in the short term? When we all know FDA approvals, things like that, you really kind of have to stick with one system, at least so far, to get it through?   Marie Schiller  23:29 Yeah, you know, it's an interesting way you sort of posed the question, I think, let me say big picture and then sort of dive down to where we are right now. You know, at the end of the day, we believe having access to sort of the latest and greatest technologies is really important, right. I mentioned even with dex comm that we want to be on the same innovation curve that they're on. So people using our system can have access to that. It's really important that all of us, keep pushing For this innovation, right, and the way that you do that is to make sure that I have the ability to integrate other technologies into my system. And I think both of us hold that premise that keeping as a non exclusive allows both of our team to be able to, you know, have access, or have our users of our system have access, I should say to the latest and greatest technology. We have started our program with the XCOM and are really excited about the progress. But we think it's important to make sure that we will have the opportunity to bring different technologies in for different users, even on the systems available today. Right. There are differences in the system, and people are choosing different platforms because of that. Sure.   Stacey Simms  24:51 Yeah, it's really interesting. I mean, I keep hearing about interoperability, which I know is going to come someday but my interpretation of that which is I always call it the Mr. Potato Head. system is not the realistic system. So I try to temper my expectations but why not? Come on? I want to mix and match as much as possible. Why not?   Marie Schiller  25:10 I don't know. Did you like playing Mr. Potato? I was never a huge fan.   Stacey Simms  25:16 It's a it's an easier thing to explain, right? Why can't I use the lead Ray? With the tandem pump? Why can't I use a Dexcom with a barefoot pen? Why can't right i mean if it works better for me and my skin and my kid and my like, why can't I and I, I get it. But at the same time, I really hope that someday we're working towards that, hey, look, it could be worse for you. They could make us play operation or perfection or something terrible like that.   Marie Schiller  25:39 Those are worse. Yeah. But you know it, baby. I think there are a lot of people were having that sort of turnkey solution is, you know, where it's all comes in on and I just understand it and it's all designed to work together. They prefer that and other people would would like that choice, right. So I think we're gonna probably see both of those emerge over time. And the FDA to be fair, has opened the door to that event, right? I mean, they're trying hard to separate the approval of each of the components. We saw that with the ACE ban. We've seen that with IC GM, and now with AI controller that can pass. So, you know, I think, at least from the FDA perspective, they've worked hard to try to enable some of that.   Stacey Simms  26:25 I agree. Alright, so from interpretability. Let's talk about the proprietary aspect of this. Because I think when a company like Lilly, that makes insulin gets involved with the hardware in which the insulin goes, a lot of questions come up, and you mentioned the quick pen. So can you just confirm again and correct me if I'm wrong? Will other insolence be able to be used in either of these systems pen or pump?   Marie Schiller  26:52 Yes. So on the pen side, the system is being built around our quick pen platform. So it will be a system that work with really insulin on the pump side of the equation. In addition, we'll have a first generation that will be a patient built component, but over time, that may shift as well. So on the life cycle plan for that pump, we're looking at the ability to have Lilly insulin in that system, as well.   Stacey Simms  27:27 Okay, so to be clear, and not say, not putting a judgement on this, but just to be clear with the idea is that this would be a proprietary pump, that Lilly would make the pump and Lilly would want its own insulin. We've been human lock used in the pump.   Marie Schiller  27:38 Yeah, I think the system is being designed around Lilly's insulin.   Stacey Simms  27:43 Alright. So you know, we've Marie, we've known each other for a while now and I know you know, this question is coming, but I think it has to be asked in a day and age where people are so angry about the pricing of insulin. Why should we get excited about systems like this when people are worried about But affording the stuff that goes in the hardware, let alone affording the hardware, whatever it is, and how great it is. There's a lot of concerns about cost. I know it's not your department, but I can't have you on and not ask about it. Can you comment on that?   Marie Schiller  28:14 And no and not and I appreciate you asking it. And you have no need for a while as well. So I appreciate the service candid question. Look, you know, and I've said this before, and I'll say it again, you know, we are committed to be able to let people with diabetes, access our medicines, and in the future, disconnected diabetes system that will include sort of the pen based system and the pump and other components. I know you'll be frustrated at this next part of it. But I can't fit here in sort of the position I'm in and where we all want this platform to be any, you know, give you any speculation of the details of how that will happen, or how that reimbursement will be in the marketplace. It just wouldn't be fair to you or your user's to speculate on that, except to say that we are 100% committed to making sure that that access is available. Look, we're not here for the sake of having this innovation sit on a shelf somewhere, not why I'm here. It's not why others are here. And so it is really important for us to be laser focused on how people access the system.   Stacey Simms  29:24 And I mentioned in the introduction, but you live with Type One Diabetes, I definitely have another question for you. But it just occurred to me, are you allowed to even say this, have you tried this system? Like, are you in the trial? Can you trial your own? unprepared?   Marie Schiller  29:38 I sure how to answer that. I have no, I'm not in the trial, but I can give you that answer. So I am not in the clinical trials that have occurred today.   Stacey Simms  29:50 I'll tell you as a person who doesn't have diabetes, obviously, you know, it's just something that I always wonder about when I talk to researchers or clinicians or I know there's there's obviously rules for clinical trials. But you've got to think, alright, I want to try this on myself. I know a lot of people have done that. Okay. So the real question I wanted to ask   Marie Schiller  30:05 is okay, I can't wait. I can't wait. That's why there's no, we're pushing hard to justice available. I, I'm waiting, like out there to make sure that I get this.   Stacey Simms  30:18 Alright, so I've got a difficult question. So my real question about living with type one is difficult is it right now to work at Lilly, when people are so angry, and a lot of that is directed? We've seen protests separately headquarters, you know, and again, it's not you, you're not in the price department. Even if there is one. This is not something I know you can control. But is it difficult and frustrating for you to see the problem, frankly, with insulin pricing at all of the insulin companies?   Marie Schiller  30:46 And the answer to that they see and I think we may have talked about this, either the last time on the phone or when I saw you it's like how do you not feel the pain in you know from people, right? I mean, this dishes, dish issues difficult issues people are dealing with. So of course, you know, what I would say is is that worse from, you know, being here? You know, I look at what we're trying to do. And And And again, I'm not the person to sort of comment on this, but it's a priority for Lilly. And I'm really proud that Lilly has made it a priority to make sure that access is there.   Stacey Simms  31:25 Going back to two devices that we've been talking about. I always hate to ask about timelines, but I always have to ask about timelines. Can you give us a goal timeline here? Is there any indication of when it might be submitted to the pen or the pumping, which will kind of go in first?   Marie Schiller  31:42 Yes. So let's talk about the pen first. So as I mentioned, and you can see on the FDA site the supplemental approval for the pen has gone through. We are working with the agency on the other components of the systems. We are not giving an update right now. on the timeline for that system, but we expect to be giving updates over the next couple of months on the pump. As I mentioned, we'll be sharing the first clinical data and our signaling that we're still over the next couple of years hoping to get that system to market   Stacey Simms  32:16 where we thank you so much for joining me. I know it's a difficult conversation to have when you've got, you know, a lot of things about to come out and then other things that I'm asking that aren't really your department. But I appreciate your frankness. Before I let you go as a person who lives with type one, what is it like to work in the diabetes sphere? I mean, I think part of me would be kind of tired, like my whole day is diabetes. My whole life has diabetes, but it's got to be exciting as well. What's   Marie Schiller  32:41 it like? It's an interesting question. For me. I just don't know any different facing effects? The answer is, I don't know my kids would probably answer the same way. I don't know what I would do with myself if I wasn't doing this all day. My weekends are spent so much in the diabetes space as well. It's just something that that is it's just a part of me, right? so much a part of all of us who are living in this space. And I'm impressed every day by all of the people working so hard to make these advancements. And it's amazing, right? As you've seen, we're actually getting some of these solutions out and reading about the improvements that are there. And I'm excited and want to keep staying focused on doing what I can to get these products out and having my team man. I mean, everybody here is just so passionate about what we're trying to do to make these advancements. So it's, um, I know it's a it's like one of those questions someone would ask what would you do if you worked with your spouse? You know? I don't wanna say I love my diabetes so much because I'm not sure I'd answer that way. Am I cursed my diabetes maybe as much as I do other things in life, but it's data reason that probably keeps That's all motivated if we know how much better we can make life.   Stacey Simms  34:03 Well, thank you so much for spending some time with me. I really appreciate and I hope we get a snapshot of the devices soon enough, Marie thanks again.   Announcer  34:15 You're listening to diabetes connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  34:21 Of course, more information at diabetes connections.com. I always link up a lot more info at the episode homepage and a transcript. I'll be interested to see how this episode is received. As I mentioned at the start of the show, there are some people who do not want to hear anything from Lilly, if it's not about lowering the price of insulin. And I respect that I hear that I know that there's a lot of anger in our community and a lot of frustration at all the insulin makers and you know, I do share a lot of that, but I would be curious to think if we should not be following the other technology advances that are coming out of these companies, because I'll be honest with you, I said this two years ago, I think Lilly is seeing the writing on the wall. That the price of insulin is going to be mandated to come down in the next few years. And they are, they don't wanna lose money. They want to find other ways to continue to be competitive. And I certainly don't think that insulin will be free. But I do think that going into the pen and pump business is a move on their part with an eye on the price of insulin coming down. Look, I'm not an economist. I'm baby way off base. But that is something that makes sense to me. up next Tell me something good. And then a little bit later on. I want to talk about some other pump companies and news that came out recently, diabetes Connections is brought to you by Dexcom. Do you know about Dexcom clarity, it is their diabetes management software. And for a long time, I just thought it was something or endo used. You can use it though both on the desktop or as an app on your phone. It's an easy way to keep track of the big picture. I check it about once a week. It really helps spinny and me dial back and see longer term trends and helps us not overreact to what happened for just one day or just whenever Our the overlay reports help with context of Benny's glucose levels and patterns. You can even share the reports with your care team, which makes appointments a lot more productive for managing diabetes is not easy, but I feel like we have one of the very best CGM systems working for us Find out more at diabetes connections dot com and click on the Dexcom logo.   I love the Tell me something good stories this week. Honestly, I love them every week, but I got a bunch that are so fun to share. And one that frankly is pretty important. Alright, so first, Candace says my son was just diagnosed January 23. This year with a hospital stay. By February 13. He was dancing away and winning a hula hoop contest at his first school dance since diagnosis. He's 11 and he was so proud of his accomplishment winning the contest. And we as parents were so happy that his diagnosis wasn't holding him back. That is so cool. I didn't Kansas for a picture shockingly, an 11 year old did not want pictures of him hula hooping to be displayed. I'm actually not sure if she had any, but we respect that we hear it. I just think it's fantastic that he did it and that he's doing so well. This soon after diagnosis way to go Candace! Alison said this is a tiny thing. But today my child was type one went to get her foot x rayed her shirt, rode up and showed her Dexcom and the text said, Hey, do you have diabetes? I do too. Then she pulled out her pump. It was super cool. Allison says her child was diagnosed in early December. I think that's great. Is there anything better than that diabetes in the wild citing, right? You know, you're with people who get it. It's just so great. And then this one you may have seen on social media. I posted a picture of Isabella with her fish, not her pet fish a fish she caught. Isabella is nine years old and she loves fishing with her dad and boy she beaming in this photo with a fish that's like as big as she is. Her mother, Heather says she was diagnosed with type one at age four. Again, she's nine. Heather says, I will tell you this little girl is amazing. Her dad got diagnosed with lupus almost four years ago. He is on dialysis. We are on a kidney transplant list. I'm currently trying to be his donor. And a lot goes into that. This is her and her daddy's favorite thing to do. They live life to the fullest, and nothing stops them. Heather, thank you so much for sharing this story for letting us share the picture of Isabella, you guys are carrying a heavy load right now. And I'm so glad to hear that you're finding enjoyment in things like this. It's kind of trite. As I'm hearing these words, leave my mouth. I mean, there's really not much to say when you're in a situation like that. But I'm happy to share your story. And I hope you keep us posted. Let us know what's going on. And definitely send more fish pictures. I would love to see that I really would even if we don't share them. You can definitely send them our way are posted the Facebook group. Our final Tell me something good is a little bit of a different story. It's more of an news story. But this is really important. And I think very good news. Beyond type one announced that they are collaborating with the National Association of School nurses to raise awareness of the warning signs of type one diabetes. So this is a new collaboration that means that 10s of thousands of school nurses around the country are going to get these awareness materials from beyond type one, if you haven't seen these we did in North Carolina push a few years ago. And they're just simple and straightforward. And they tell you the signs, and they talk about what to look for. I don't think those of us in the community had any idea what DK a was what it looked like, how deadly it could be, you know, before we our children were diagnosed, right? How would you know? So this education campaign is absolutely going to save lives. Huge thanks to be on type one. And a big thanks to the Helmsley Charitable Trust which is funding it. I will keep you posted. I will put up links in the show notes on how you can get involved because you know ordinary people state to state are getting involved. We sit around my dining room table here outside of Charlotte, North Carolina and stuffing envelopes and sent them out really can make a difference. Tell me something good happens every week around here. Give me your stories post in the Facebook group, email me Stacey at diabetes dash connections dot com. I would really love to hear from you. We got to get the good news out in our community. Tell me something good.   All right. We're getting a little long here. But I wanted to bring you some news from the other pump companies. I know I don't usually do a news update this far down in the show, but because I put the coronavirus episode out a little early. There was some news I was going to put into that episode that has gotten pushed here. Let me get right to it. We had an earnings call from tandem. And the really interesting bits from that were that the T sport hybrid patch pump is now expected later this year, possibly probably early 2021. The CEO of tandem says they plan to file with the FDA for t sport approval. This summer with a new mobile app, which means you'll be able to bolus from your smartphone. So apparently, they're going to submit this in two different ways two different filings. One would be a separate handheld device, right like a dummy phone or a dummy controller of some kind that you'd bolus from. I'm dummy and that it doesn't do anything else but control the pump. But the other filing would be remote bulleting by the smartphone app. And apparently the CEO said they will not launch t sport until both have been okayed by the FDA. So you would have the option of using your phone or of using the singular let's call it singular controller rather than the dummy controller. So that's really exciting. I'm gonna post some pictures diabetes mine posted this update and posted some pictures of the tee sport. It is a little patch pump that can be worn on the body or it has a tube so it can be put in your pocket again. I don't know how it sticks to the body. Did you hear me talking to Maria about that? Is it reusable? Like ever since or is it like a dexcom to rip it off or a pumping set. So we'll find out more about these things as they go forward. But that was some really interesting news from tandem. The other bit of news comes from Insulet. They are in the middle of clinical trials for horizon, they had hoped to be filing for that approval. This summer horizon is the hybrid closed loop for the Omni pod. They did have a software issue. That means they are pausing the pivotal study, and it's going to delay things, not really sure how long, of course, they're really hoping that it won't be too long, you know, maybe a month or so. But they are now pushing the anticipated launch of horizon to early 2021. And I know there's a lot of disappointment because people really want this system. I will say to you that tandem had a similar issue with their software during the last pivotal trial for control IQ. It was very quickly fixed. I don't think it affected the timeline that much. Maybe it was just a month, but it still hit its goal of the end of the year. So hopefully Omni pod insolate can get back on this and get back to their timeline but I will link to More information on that, because I know these things just cannot come to market soon enough. tank you for staying with me. This was a long bit after the interview and I appreciate it, but I wanted to get some information out there. I really appreciate you listening. There's a lot going on right now. All right, I'm gonna stop right here and thank my editor John Bukenas from audio editing solutions. If you have an audio project, I highly recommend john, you know, if he puts up with me, and my rambling that he can do wonders for you. All kidding aside, john is great. I love working with him. He never asked me to say anything in the show. But he really is such a strong part of what makes this podcast successful. And boy, is he nice to me and doesn't leave in all of my papers. So thank you, john. And thank you so much for listening. I'm Stacey Simms. I will see you back here next week.   Benny  43:55 Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Simms media. All right. reserved all wrongs avenged   Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Because I've had a virtual front row seat to watch 1000s of successful business building warriors build great businesses over the years, I've had a chance to learn some incredibly valuable lessons about what makes some fail and others succeed. One of those lessons is that it's just not that complicated to learn one or both of the basic skills that ensure your long term success and income stability. I'm confident that these two skills represent the most secure and stable income situation you could possibly have in business! That's a big statement, but the facts back me up on this one! Show notes https://silentjim.com     ProvenAmazonCourse.com - the best selling course in the world with more testimonials by far than any other Amazon seller course. For newbies and million dollar sellers alike!   SilentSalesMachine.com - the $5 book that started it all   My Silent Team Facebook group - Get support with lots of other sellers   TheProvenConference.com - our July 2020 event in Boca Raton Florida

Michael Hudson’s ambition is to popularise Bitcoin through the Gravity app developed by Bitstocks, the London company he founded back in 2014 and of which he is CEO. Although, to say that Michael wants to popularise Bitcoin to undersell the vision - which is nothing less than to change the world.Bitstocks started by helping people to buy and sell cryptocurrencies. But today, through Gravity, it has moved on. No longer is the emphasis on well-heeled Western customers, to whom it acted as a kind of high tech stockbroker. Michael now has a far wider population in his sights: “Even if you want to have £1 in circulation, I want to facilitate you. And that vision goes much broader than, say, your traditional Western client. This really segues into 'well, how do we integrate with people in Africa? How do we integrate with people in Asia, South America?' But not just from 'I want to sell you some Bitcoin and I want you to utilise Bitcoin'. How do we empower them to be employed by what it is that we're doing?”That is still for the future, but next month, Gravity’s launch will be extended from the UK to the rest of Europe.Michael’s mission is crystallised in the slogan “educate, empower, evolve”, each of which relates to part of Bitstocks’ work - Gravity being “empower”, for instance. Education comes through the company’s media department, producing podcasts and videos, which Michael sees as a critical part of the business. And then there’s “evolve”, which is perhaps the most ambitious element, if still a little hazy: “the evolve aspect, I haven't spoken about much, but that's about what can we do as a company or organisation, a collective, to entice people to join us on this mission for the betterment of humanity and to invest in technologies that are in the betterment of humanity. Because I've said and I've maintained quite aggressively that Bitcoin is one component. There are other things required in coordination, in combination with Bitcoin that really will have some massive breakthroughs for humanity.”As to what those other things are, Michael suggests “energy” (yes, everything starts with “e”). The broader vision, loosely, ‘making the world a better place’, might feel like a quite different business idea from letting people buy and sell Bitcoin more easily. But Michael says that Bitcoin is integral to all Bitstocks’ work: “Bitcoin allows you as an entrepreneur to think in a different way. It allows you to realise 'oh, wait, that is possible. Oh, we can do this in an ethical way', which is the most important aspect. Because if Bitcoin is a beacon of light, great. That's one thing. But how long is it gonna shine for? What's going to prevent it from shining? Why didn't it shine before? Why hasn't shone in eleven years? We've only had a dim light which has allowed shadows.”

[fusion_builder_container hundred_percent="no" equal_height_columns="no" menu_anchor="" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" class="" id="" background_color="" background_image="" background_position="center center" background_repeat="no-repeat" fade="no" background_parallax="none" parallax_speed="0.3" video_mp4="" video_webm="" video_ogv="" video_url="" video_aspect_ratio="16:9" video_loop="yes" video_mute="yes" overlay_color="" video_preview_image="" border_size="" border_color="" border_style="solid" padding_top="" padding_bottom="" padding_left="" padding_right=""][fusion_builder_row][fusion_builder_column type="1_1" layout="1_1" background_position="left top" background_color="" border_size="" border_color="" border_style="solid" border_position="all" spacing="yes" background_image="" background_repeat="no-repeat" padding_top="" padding_right="" padding_bottom="" padding_left="" margin_top="0px" margin_bottom="0px" class="" id="" animation_type="" animation_speed="0.3" animation_direction="left" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" center_content="no" last="no" min_height="" hover_type="none" link=""][fusion_text] Listen via YouTube video if desired [/fusion_text][fusion_youtube id="https://youtu.be/-COBFmNBVwc " alignment="center" width="" height="" autoplay="false" api_params="&rel=0" hide_on_mobile="small-visibility,medium-visibility,large-visibility" class="" /][fusion_text] Transcription (was completed by automated process. Please ignore any speech-to-text errors) [00:00:04] Well, hello, everyone. We're so glad you joined us again today. My name is Kenny Thomas. For those of you who haven't heard my voice yet. And welcome to this next session. I was calling you Beatty Carmichael. Beatty is the CEO of Master Grabber, the creator of Agent Dominator and one of the top marketing experts in the real estate field. Beatty, I'm excited. What are we going to be discussing today? [00:00:29] Well, today we're going to talk about how to increase referrals. That sounds like a interesting topic for real estate agents. [00:00:37] Yes, I would say a very important one also. [00:00:40] Absolutely, very important. In fact, I was at a convention. It was a a weekend convention, hundreds of real estate agents. And they had a bunch of breakout sessions on the Saturday event that agents could go and choose what topic they want to learn. And one breakout session, Drew, I think it was like two thirds or three fourths of all of the attendees and all the other breakout sessions. Some of them actually had no one attending because this other one drama. Can you. Can you think what that one topic might have been when they get referral? [00:01:24] That's right. How to increase referrals. Exactly. I was talking to another client of ours, and he's a top producer down in Florida. He's been coaching with a coach for a number of years. And the coach got all of his coaching clients together. It's like 18 or 20 different, really strong top producing agents. And they went around the room actually as a conference call. So they went around the call and they were asking every single one last year, where did most of your business come from? Would you like to guess where all but one, my client, all the others who are the bulk of their business came from? [00:02:09] Any idea? [00:02:12] Referral, referrals and repeat from past clients. So this, if you do it right, can really sustain a business. And especially think about this, Penny, the real estate world is going into through some pretty dramatic shifts right now. Are you aware of some of those shifts taking place? [00:02:36] I've been hearing a little bit, but I'd love for you to expand on that if you can. [00:02:40] Well, there are shifts with what's called a buyer's Zillow's moving more into an aggressive competitor. Amazon's looking to get in. [00:02:49] There's this large class-action court case dealing with buyer commissions. And the bottom line is all these things are putting immense pressure on what's going to happen in the real estate world as a profession. What do you think would be one the best thing someone could do to protect to get all these market shifts that could eat away at their business? Any idea? [00:03:17] Obviously, increase increased their amount of sales to increase sales, but increase referrals and repeat sales from past clients. And so this is a huge topic because it really can help someone take their business and solidify it and be less susceptible to a range of market forces that they have no control over. And this is one thing that's real interesting is I've worked with our clients. Penny, you have complete control over getting referrals and getting people to do business with you again. You don't have much control over what the market does. So this is one area that you can really start to control your business. So let me ask you a question as we get into this. [00:03:59] Let's assume that you're a home owner and a friend comes to you and says, hey, Penny, I'm thinking about selling a house or thinking about buying a house. Do you have anyone that you would recommend I talk to? So you're going to make a referral, refer a friend to an agent. Here's the question I have for you. Which agent are you most likely to refer? One, that you would choose yourself or one that you would not choose yourself? [00:04:34] One that I would choose myself for sure. [00:04:37] So then the question if we move into this topic. Why would you choose one agent over someone else? Okay, so now let me turn the tables just a little bit. Imagine for a moment that your real estate agent, what causes someone to choose you over another agent? If you were to try to figure that out, do you have any idea of what that might be? [00:05:04] Well, off the top of my head, I would have to say my level of service and commitment to my client, how available I am and how relational I am. There needs first. [00:05:17] Okay. Now, let me ask you a question. That person who has never done business with you before. How do you articulate these things that you're talking about? How do you express to them what you just mentioned? [00:05:36] Customer service being available for the client. Just getting to know them. Engaging with them. Phone calls, meetings, that kind of thing. [00:05:48] Okay, so here's the problem I want to pose. I, um, I actually sat down with three agents when we're thinking about selling our home. And from top producing agents like the number two sales agent in our suburban city all the way down to good producers. And I asked him the question, why should I choose you over one of these other agents that's really qualified? You know what they said? [00:06:14] What? I don't know. [00:06:18] They could not give me a reason why I should choose them over someone else. So think about that. Now think about your answer to because what you shared with me is what most agents would say. Customer service, I'm available. I'm engaging with them. But how do you really quantify or measure that? But more importantly, how do you. What do you do to get someone to choose you? I'd like to suggest there's a different reason people choose you than what you just gave. And here's the point. Here's the thing. What you gave is the reason all agents think people choose them. [00:06:55] But when you really boil it down, the reason a homeowner chooses an agent either personally or to refer them is for something completely different. It ties in to what you mentioned, but it's completely different. Until you know why they choose you. Does it make sense? It's hard to get them to choose you. [00:07:15] Yes. [00:07:16] So if you want them to choose you, we got to go a little bit deeper. Peel back the onion a little bit more and say what the fundamental reasons they choose an agent. And once we know what that is. Then you've got a competitive advantage, because now you can start doing things that cause them to charge you more. So this is what working with clients. One of the things that has happened over the years is I'll follow up I follow up with our clients and they just get started with us with Agent Dominator. Once they've been with us for a month or two and they're starting to get their feet on the ground with us. And I cover this very same topic because this is the most important thing. My goal when I call them, is to ensure their success with us. And success is simple because success is a pattern. If you fail to do the pattern, you will fail the success. So here's what I tell them. People two for three reasons. And all three of these reasons have to be present. It's like a stool with three legs. If you take one leg off that stool. What happens to the stool? Okay. So unbeknownst to most agents, these are actually the three reasons people do business with you. [00:08:38] And once you can clarify and quantify these, then you can start to act on improving them in the experience. Number one is they like you, right? Do you know a person that would choose you as an agent if they did not like you? [00:08:54] Absolutely not. [00:08:55] Okay. The more they like you. Is it likely the more they're going to choose you? Yes. Okay. So liking you. By the way, I just want to. Does that have anything to do with customer service being available that been engaging? Or does it? Are all those different than simply disliking you? [00:09:17] I think it all. I think they all tied together. [00:09:19] They all tied together. But as a person, as a friend, I want to suggest that those qualities of what you do as a professional are separate from the qualities of why someone chooses to like you as a friend. [00:09:38] Does that make sense? Yeah. This liking you starts initially at the very top level. Most powerful is that they really like you as a friend. If you have five real estate agents that you know and one of them is your best friend. Which of those five agents are you most likely to choose? [00:09:57] My best friend. There you go. Relationship trumps everything else. So that's number one. Number two, the third. First, they like you. Second, they trust your expertise. As a real estate agent, this is where your customer service. This is where you're always available. This is where you are constantly staying on top of things. This is where you understand the contracts. You understand the process and negotiation. You understand what buyers want. You understand what sellers want. It is this professional level of expertise within your craft. [00:10:37] The third reason they choose you is you happen to be top of mind at the time that they're thinking about choosing an agent. If you're not top of mind, then you're never going to be chosen, right? [00:10:54] Okay, so all of these kind of tie into each other to put them like circles on a page. They all kind of overlap to a degree, but they all have different functions. And I want to walk through. How do you do that? So let me ask you if I were to ask you, Penny. How do you get someone to like you? [00:11:16] What would you tell me? [00:11:22] Oh, gosh, that's a really that's a broad question. I think it depends on the person. I would have to get to know their needs and the things that make them feel white. Some people feel white when you buy them a gift. Some people feel liked when you spend time with them. [00:11:41] Some people feel like when you do a service for them, some sort of act of service. You have to get to know the person first and kind of figure out what it is that makes them feel like, okay. I would probably from a business standpoint, I'd probably try to like them in that way. [00:11:58] Okay, good, good, good. Now you're married to Brian, right? Yes. When Brian was dating you, how did you. [00:12:11] Grow to like him. Spending time with him. Lots of time. [00:12:18] That's just the simple answer, you just spend time with people, right? Yeah. Okay. If you wanted to get someone to trust your expertise. [00:12:30] How do you do that? [00:12:34] Let's hear yes. Yes. No, no. Okay. Simple answer. But I think integrity has a lot to do with it. [00:12:44] Okay. All right. How do you get someone to always remember you? Keep well, you top of mind with them. [00:12:56] I would need to stay in contact with them in multiple ways, whether it's a phone call or text message, email, planning to take them to coffee or something like that. I'm always on their mind. [00:13:09] So here's where I'm going with all of these simple questions. For someone to want to choose you or refer you, they have to like you, trust your expertise and you have to be top of mind. [00:13:21] All you have to really do is ask your ask yourself this question is how do I get someone to like me? How do I get someone to trust me, not trust me as an individual? That's important, but trust me as a professional in my trade of selling real estate, how do I get someone to always remember me? I'd like to go through just a real short synopsis of how to do all these things, because this is the key to getting referrals. If they like you a lot, if they trust your expertise a lot. And if you happen to be top of mind, does it does it make. Does it make sense that you're absolutely going to be getting that referral? When when someone asked them, who should I use as a real estate agent? [00:14:06] So it's really not a mystery. It's just stopping slowing down and saying. What's really at play and how do we do it? So let me talk about liking you first. Okay. Okay. So ultimately everything you said about liking is absolutely correct. But I like to try to simplify a little bit more. Ultimately a relationship. Is all about. Do you truly value me as a person when you are spending time with Brian, did it. Was it clear that he valued you as a person? And the more he valued you, did that kind of make you value him more? [00:14:48] Yes. [00:14:51] So the question then is how do you go about just making people know that you value them? Let me let me suggest if I call you up, I'm a I'm a real estate agent, your friend. Hey, Penny, how's it going? What do you say? All right. Oh, we're doing fine. It's a beautiful day. The kids are great. Are your kids home from college or high school? [00:15:16] Yeah, I'm from high school, from high school. [00:15:19] I know how that works. Hey, by the way, do you know anyone who's thinking about buying or selling a home anytime soon? [00:15:27] I do, actually, my neighbor. [00:15:29] Okay. Pull out. Do I value you as an individual or as a sales prospect from that call? [00:15:38] Both. [00:15:41] Which way do you. When I finished hanging up the call and you were to ask yourself what was Betty's motivation in calling me? What comes top of mind of my motivation? Personal or business? Business. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Here's here's the interesting thing about relationships. Relationships are fragile. All it takes is one inclusion. That is not an authentic relationship. And it turns the table on the entire experience. And takes away. From the authentic portion of that relationship, does that make sense to use the wording? [00:16:23] No. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. [00:16:25] So what happens in a relationship? It's a sensitive situation. And if you want to get people to like you, your contact with them needs to be purely relational. Not business. Business will come if they like you. But if you ask for a business immediately, that engagement you had with them is perceived as entirely self-centered, self-motivated simply to get business. And it really had nothing to do with you as a person. Let's role play that scenario one more time. Hey, Penny, it's Brady. How's it going? [00:17:09] Hey, great. How are you guys? [00:17:11] Oh, we're doing super. [00:17:12] The kids home from high school now they are getting ready for the holidays. [00:17:17] Oh, I know. That's wonderful. Tell me about them. You don't have to go any further. But now the whole conversation is just about you, the kids. Husband, how life is. We share something. And then I say, hey, hey, I've got to run. I've got an appointment coming up. But I just want to give you a quick call. Hensala hadn't spoken with you in awhile. Have a great day. Talk soon. Click hang up now a moment. You ask yourself, what was his motivation of that phone call? What comes to mind? [00:17:46] Just checking on me, just saying hi and friendly. [00:17:49] Does that make you feel good? [00:17:51] Yes, absolutely. [00:17:53] Does that make you feel that I value you as a person and as a friend? [00:17:58] Yes. Is that tough to do? [00:18:03] No, no, it's not. Do most agents do that? No, no. So here is the key. The easiest thing you can do in the world. Most agents don't do because they get too busy. Right. I feel led to ask this question. If your husband gets too busy. To value you as his wife. What does that do to your marriage? [00:18:38] Not good things. [00:18:39] Not good thing. You could actually lose a marriage by being too busy, by not focusing on the little things that are most important, because you get. See, that is the big things that are really the important things in life. [00:18:52] And we lose out on the relationship. And I would like to suggest that what you do in building your real estate business is very much the same. It's the little things you do. Just touching people. That's the most important thing. So now let's go a step further. Let's take that same scenario. I call you up. We just have a little fun chat. It doesn't last long, but I leave the phone call and you're thinking, I really like Baity. He saw me. Now imagine the next day or two you get a note from me, Penny. It was so good talking and catching up with you. So excited about the kids. Hope you guys have a wonderful holiday season. And I sign it. What does that do to you, your feeling of my value to you at that point? Does it increase it? [00:19:50] Do you start to start to want to reciprocate that relationship? Does it make you like me more? [00:20:04] And the more you like me, more likely you're going to choose me as an agent. More likely you're going to refer me. Okay. So what I would like to suggest is to get someone to like you and to keep them like you even more. It's just a periodic reach out. You could even do it by text. Hey, Penny, how's it going? Just thinking about you. What's up? Now a text is bad. The default to a phone call. But it's a nice little touch. It has no ulterior motive behind it. But the phone call is the best because now you can interact, you can ask questions, you can share about you. They get to know you more. They get to you get to know them more is just catching up. And then if you'll follow up with that with a handwritten note, I suggest that handwritten notice on your real estate stationery. In fact, if I were a real estate agent, I'd get a bunch of note cards printed with my name and my real estate brand and my real estate information. And I would hand write you a note on my real estate card if my note if my personal note comes to you on my real estate card. Does that detract, in your opinion, from the authentic ness of my note? In other words, plenty of so great talking with you. Love catching hope. You guys have a great holiday and I sign it. Does it detract at all if it's coming from my personal stationery versus my business stationery? [00:21:41] Actually, I would feel like it was more heartfelt if you actually read it, right. [00:21:47] Okay. So I handwrite it, but I handwrite write it and it just happens to be on my work stationery. Does that cause any consternation on your end? If you were to get that. [00:21:56] No, it doesn't. Okay. [00:21:59] Okay. Okay. So it may be imperceptible. It may be more. But here's what I found when talking with one of our one of my friends who has been selling real estate for, gosh, 30 years now. He may actually made it, he said. I've never advertised for business. I've never spent any money to get business. I've always had as much business as I want, in fact, so much that I actually turned business down. And, you know, his number one thing that he does. [00:22:35] Call people. [00:22:36] That's right. He just makes these simple phone calls and he writes them a short note on his business stationery. That's it. Wow. [00:22:44] And here's what happens. They like him. And they remember that he is a real estate agent. [00:22:54] Top of mind, they like him. Bye bye. Curiously, the fact that he's in business so long, they trust that he probably has expertise. Unless he's actually done business with them and then they know that he has expertise. So this is really, really, really powerful. And by putting that little thank you note on a personal on your business, stationery, real estate, it might have a slight detrimental effect. Slightly degrade the touch, the value that touch. I don't think you'd be much, but what it does is it reinforces two things. I like you as a friend, but then you see me as a real estate agent as well. So that keeps that top of mind. Something else you can do. You mentioned this. Some people love gifts. If I were to drop by your house, even if you're not there and I leave some cookies and brownies, hey, I was in the area. Normally night out this way. I was in the area. Drop by. I got some brownies for you guys. Hope you enjoy it. [00:23:59] Does that make you feel good? [00:24:01] Oh, gosh, yes. [00:24:03] Does that increase my no pun intended? Does that increase my brownie points in your mind in terms of our relationship? Sure. Okay. Okay. So this is something else you can do, just a little drop by and just say even if you don't have a gift. Hey, I was in the area showing a house over here to another client. I remember you were here. I just want to drop by and say hello. Does that make you feel good? Yeah. So these are the little things that go a long way. Now, let's talk about being a little bit more strategic. Okay. So we got the relationship thing. Make sure people like you. They like you because you value their relationship and you demonstrate it because you reach out to them. And when you reach out to them, you mentioned nothing about real estate. Okay. Now it's okay if you ask me. Hey, Beatty, how's the house real estate going? Oh, man, it's going really great. I share a little bit. That's okay, because I did not volunteer it until you asked it. So it's still a personal call, but it's something you can do is take your list of friends, past clients, people you know, and identify those people who are a what I'll call a connector role. Do you have any idea what a connector role might be? [00:25:28] I guess I'm assuming it's just people that like if I'm my neighbor, I have a connection with her and then she knows somebody else. That chain. [00:25:39] Yep. So people who know other people. So let me give you an idea. Let me let me see if I can kind of lead this discussion just a little bit. You've got two people on your list. One person is a local Little League coach. And another person. Is a computer programmer who works from home. Which of those two people do you think would probably be more likely to be a connector to other people for you? [00:26:14] The first one. Why is that? [00:26:18] Outside the home, outside the home, I'd like to. There's one more element. Can you figure out what that element is? Why is the first one the little the Little League coach more likely to become a good connector for you than to work at home? Programmer. [00:26:35] He knows so many other people. [00:26:38] That's it. That's exactly it. So if you go through your list and ask yourself who is likely to know a lot more people, a lot of times simply by nature of their job, you can determine that a hairdresser, a bank teller, a little league coach, the choir director, a pastor, a youth minister. I mean, I could kind of go down the list, but they all have one thing in common. Their job, their occupation involves working with a lot of people on an ongoing basis. Repeat people in the local area. Does that make sense? Yes. If you were to be friend. The programmer and friend, the literary coach. Which one do you think you would likely get more referrals from? Yeah, for sure. So that's what I call a connector. And I suggest that you go through your list of people and you start to mark. Okay. First off, let's make sure you have a list, right. You create a written list. Okay. And then you identify those people who are connectors by virtue of the fact of how many people they probably know locally. Okay. So this would be those people who would just lie for the party. They love people and they know everyone. They may not have a job that is a or type job, but that's their personality. That's who they are. My brother, by the way, is that one. He knows everyone in town. And then you, those who have the other jobs that constantly have a flow of people coming through, those people who are connectors, you want to be a lot more strategic with this relationship building. [00:28:30] You want to pop by. You want to actually put it on sort of a schedule maybe every four to six weeks. Drop by. So let's say that you work at the bank. You're a bank teller. Okay. I'm going to swing by. Hey, Penny, I was in the area again, brought you some doughnuts. How are things now? I looked at all the tellers. Now y'all can eat any of these doughnuts without Penny's permission. These are hers. Okay. All right. Okay. So you feel special, right? Well, now I've made you feel really special. The more I do that, when you hear someone coming through, they're a little old lady or that or that someone coming through the tell tale teller slot and you're engaging with them because they're one of your normal clients types things and they're starting to talk about they're thinking about selling their home. Who's the first person you're likely going to think of referring them to you? Yeah. And when I swing by that date, bring you doughnuts, are you likely going to remember to say, oh, what did so-and-so call you? Because I was talking to so-and-so and they're thinking about selling their house. You think you might actually. Yeah. So the connectors are going to have their ear to the ground. Because they were involved with all kinds of people all the time. And the stronger the relationship, the more you pursue that relationship, the more likely two things are going to happen. They're going to refer you. [00:30:02] And when you happen to pop by, then they're going to bring back to remember it. Oh, you know what? You're the real estate agent. This person was saying just a week ago they're thinking about selling. And it's going to remind you to tell me because I'm actually there. I can't. In fact, I can't tell you how many people have told me. So when they start using our services, we guarantee results. But one of the things that we require is one that we guarantee it is that you have to at least call your prospects. Couple of times a year. I can't tell you how many times people have told me when I'm just on the phone and I'm talking to them, I'll pick up a deal because I've been getting the postcards, they're getting the emails, they're being reminded of me. And now when I call them, it's like, oh, you know what? A friend of mine is thinking about selling. You ought to call them engagement, interaction that prompts them to remember about the referral. So really, really powerful. So that's getting them to like you. Back to the question, how do you get someone to like you? You like them back? That's the easy answer. You do those things that let them know that you liked them. Second thing. So we go back to the store. Three reasons people choose you. They like you. They trust your expertise. And you happen to be top of mind when they're thinking. So let's talk about trusting your expertise. Here is the challenge in marketing, there's a concept known as outside perception versus inside reality. [00:31:39] Here's what it means in real estate. Let's say, Penny, that you are a real estate agent. And you want to market to a group of homeowners. That group could be people that, you know, there's your personal list or that group could be people that are just in a neighborhood. By the way, let me ask you a question. Is there fundamentally any real difference between someone, you know, who lives in a home and someone you don't know who lives in a home? In other words, no, there's no difference, only differences. You have a relationship with one, but not with the other, but they generally have the same like same desires, same feelings. And what we find is this the typical homeowner believes that all real estate agents are the same, that all they do is take a sign in the yard, list a home in the MLS and wait for someone else to bring a buyer. Would you agree that that's probably what most home owners believe to be true? So let's say that you are a top notch. Dedicated real estate agent, you serve your clients better, far better than the typical real estate agent. But as long as those homeowners believe that you're just like anyone else, are they more likely to choose you over someone else? They believe you're just like everyone else. Are they going to choose you or are they going to choose someone else just as easily, just as easily they would pick someone else for sure. [00:33:16] Yeah. [00:33:17] So the implication, real simple, if all agents are the same, it doesn't matter who I choose to sell my house, I won't get the same result. Same price and the same amount of time with one agent over another. But let me ask a different question. Let's assume that those people on that list, your personal list or that neighborhood, if they understood your skill and your expertise. And they understood it to the same degree that you understand it about yourself. Would they realistically choose any other agent besides you? No. [00:33:50] Okay, so that's what we call your inside reality there. Outside perception is you're like everyone else. So there's no reason to you, but you're inside. Reality is there's lots of reasons to choose you. If you could transfer your inside reality to them so they know as much about you as you know about yourself. Would that drive a lot more business? Do you think? [00:34:18] Yes, absolutely. And fundamentally, why? [00:34:27] Because there is a connection established. [00:34:30] There's a kind of a connection. They know more about you. Right. Let me go back to reason number two. If they understood you're inside reality, then does that mean that now they are trusting your expertise? [00:34:47] Yes. [00:34:48] Because you're inside, reality is your expertise. And if they don't know your expertise, they can't trust it, and therefore, on that stool with three legs, you're missing one leg. So what do you think would be a simple way to help them trust your expertise? [00:35:12] Guys, tell me. [00:35:15] Guys say anything most. Most real estate agents say, oh, gosh, I have no idea. Okay. Because I've never thought about this. Let me tell you the easiest thing. Okay. So let me pose it as a question to you. You're thinking five real estate agents. You're going to be selling your home, you know, five real estate agents. And one of them you see all the time making another sale, listing another house, closing another sale all the time. Boom, boom, boom. Sold again and sold again and sold again. Just listed. Just listed. Sold again. Sold again. And the other four agents don't say anything about them all. [00:35:57] They're real estate agents out of those five agents. Which one are you going to choose? [00:36:01] The one that's always selling for? [00:36:05] Do you think you trust that they probably have greater expertise than the other four? [00:36:11] Yes. [00:36:13] And what was your reasoning behind that? [00:36:20] The proof is in the pudding. All those things sold, sold, sold by the same person that I know, they're actually selling houses. [00:36:28] There you go. It isn't that easy, isn't it? That's the first step. Is simply showing off your successes all the time. [00:36:38] The way you transfer expertise as you get them to start to trust you more than someone else. And the first level of trust is, are you actually doing what you're supposed to be doing? Are you selling homes? That's the first level. But then there's some things you can do to increase that level of trust. And they're really simple. Any idea what you might be able to do to increase the trust? Just beyond showing off yourself. [00:37:02] Probably you would need to offer something, some sort of guarantee. [00:37:06] Maybe you could. That definitely helps. But before we get to that more complicated thing, let me ask you a question. You have you have those five real estate agents. Two of them you see are constantly selling. Three of them you don't see anything. So now it's a choice between those two. One of them, you see. So the other one you see sold for full price, sold in three days, sold for two thousand over asking price. Now, which one do you choose? [00:37:38] That one. Because I'm getting more thinks about not only are they selling that, they're selling for more and they're selling faster. [00:37:47] Bingo. Okay. So now we add a little bit more information that causes them to trust you more because you're now telling a little bit more about why they should I sell this home in three days. That's impressive. I sell this home for full price. That's impressive. So the more you get to share the inside reality of that sale, the more they start to trust you that maybe you can do the same for them. Makes sense. Yes. OK. Now let's take it a step further. What do you think? Before we get to a guarantee before you. What do you think? There's something else I could do. To get someone to trust me even more than simply saying sold in three days or so for full price or something like that. Tell me I can share what I did to cause it to sell that fast. For example, before I put this home on the market. We pre marketed it for an entire week. Mailing to the neighborhood door-knocking, letting people know the home is about to come on the market, and if they have any friends that want to be in this area, let them know. [00:39:12] We started to we went through the house and we made sure everything was absolutely perfect in order. No, no does. No, no burned-out light bulbs. If there is a room, there was a room that was kind of an awkward color. We had the owner change it back to a neutral color, took away everything that could have been a detriment that would cause someone to go. That's just not quite a good feel. In other words, the level of preparation and the level of pre marketing I did. So this home faster. Now, if I were to tell you that, does that give you greater confidence in my expertise? [00:39:47] Absolutely. [00:39:48] Okay. Yes. And then I could even guarantee to sell it in next days or I pay you or I could do all kinds of things. But trusting your expertise starts with just showing them that you're always selling. Then showing them what's going on with those sales. Explaining some more information behind that shows what you did. What you did may be what every agent does, but the homeowner doesn't know that because no way to tell them. So that's the second leg. Okay, so back to why did someone why does someone chooses an agent? They like you, they trust you, your expertise. And then you happen to be top of mind. So on top of mind. [00:40:34] Have you ever heard in selling the ABC of selling? Always be closing. Okay. Well, there's an ABC in real estate. It's always been contacting. Right. If you want to stay top of mind, you're just always there. And this is where the automated remote touch systems are in place come into play. So if you think about this. [00:41:02] Only you individually can get someone to like you. Your touches need to be personal. Hey, how's it going? Just thinking about you. Hey, I was thinking about you last week. Hadn't spoken with you in a while. Just want to call and say, hey. Only you can do those. Your assistant can't do but everything else in terms of trusting your expertise and staying top of mind. You can now automate that. You can send those out in postcards. You can do an email campaign. You can do social media and constantly be posting, posting just lists at another home to Facebook. And so all your friends are seeing that they're seeing that activity. You can share write a little explanation of what you did to sell this home in five days. All that can be done in an automated fashion, but you need to be consistent in doing that. But part of that is going to be your personal touches, because that's another contact part of that's going to be writing those will hand written notes or doing a pop by. But it's more on top of mind is more than that. It's doing all these other things. So now with that as a backdrop, I want to talk the last couple steps about how this realistically put this together. But before I go there, do you have any questions on any of this or how to do it or anything that's cropped up as we've been talking on it? [00:42:29] I don't actually I'm interested here. Just this last little part and this thing top of mind and strategies for because I can I can see a lot of agents and I think the best way to stay of mind. [00:42:44] Let me ask you a question before we get there. What do you think is the number one reason people agents aren't consistently touching their personal contacts? [00:42:54] I think for sure they're too busy. [00:42:58] Too busy, we don't have time for that. [00:43:03] They're too busy. Don't have time. And they're not prepared. Are you? Are you a busy mom? Busy employee? [00:43:12] Yes. [00:43:13] Busy wife? Yes. Have you gotten more accomplished in all your roles by bringing structure and knowing what you need to do and having things prepared to do it? Absolutely. [00:43:27] So here's a simple thing. If most agents would just create a little bit of structure, then they can easily fit this in their day. The reason they don't do it is they don't have the structure in place and it doesn't take that much effort. Let's go through the action. [00:43:48] So let's put a little bit of structure in place that takes very little time. Number one, make a list. The easiest way to start making a list of who all your friends are. [00:44:02] Just going through your phone contact, go through your phone contacts and go through your Facebook friends. [00:44:09] Yeah, I mean, there's a list right there. So write it down in one spot and then you go through it strategically, add contact in their phone number and what's their mailing address. Okay. And if you don't know their phone number or their mailing address or an email address, you probably don't want Facebook to send a quick message updating my records. Can you give me your mailing address? You know, how many people would give you your mailing address? Their mailing address, if you ask for it? All of them ask for it. Okay. So you put your list together and then this is real important to you. Want to categorize your list by A, B and C.. Okay, everyone, you know. Okay, A, B and C, here's a simple way of what I understand for this to be most effective as a real estate agent. Aides are going to be those people that you have the closest relationship with. The easy way to understand if you have a close relationship is if you know their spouses name and you know their children's names and they know your spouse and your children's name. In other words, the more you know about them, it's going to be an A. [00:45:26] Then the bees are going to be the people that you have a relationship with with them individually, but it doesn't go much further. So this would be like your work relationships. You know, John, down down on the second floor, you see him a lot, but you really you've never met his wife. You don't really know much about the kids. That's a relationship. A C relationship would be someone that is you. No pun intended. You see them only once in a blue moon. Okay. But you don't know much about them. So they bfc. Okay. So you start with your A's and B's and you then go through and list everyone that is going to be a connector. And if I have a, B or C, that is a connector, I want to move them to an A because that is the priority. And I want to build a relationship with them strategically because I I want that relationship now. So you're gonna make the A's B's. And then depending on how big the list is, you narrowed only to the A's or the B's or you include some C's. [00:46:34] But generally speaking, like if we're targeting when we work with real estate agents to help them market to their clients for 500 people is fine because so much of the marketing can be automated. But those that maybe they're personally touching may only be like two hundred. Okay. So it depends on what you're doing. But then the next step is once you make the list be strategic. An easy way to be strategic. If you don't have a fancy system, you put it all on an Excel spreadsheet and you just get loaded to Google Docs. On Google Docs, you can access it from your phone and you can access it from your computer. Does that make sense? [00:47:14] It does. [00:47:15] Okay. And then all you do is you put a column on and Google Docs says Date last touched and you scroll through your list. I've got five minutes before an appointment. I'm out on the roads. I'm gonna pull up my phone. Go to Google Docs and find the next person on my list that I haven't touched recently. Their phone number is going to be there and I want to reach out. Hey, pettiest Beatty. How you doing? Hadn't thought spoken to you in a while. Just wanted to visit a couple minutes. Oh, my appointments here. Gotta run. Okay. So it's a natural end of the conversation. But you like it. I've touched you. I'm gonna write you a handwritten note. Now I've got a system in place and it doesn't really take much time. So structure that approach and working from the list means that now you can go through that list and touch everyone. So let's go back. And I just want to review a couple of key things. Okay. That, too. Why did people choose you? They like you. They trust your expertise. You happen to be top of mind. [00:48:16] Your personal touch 100 percent needs to be authentic. Relationship only mentioned nothing about your business unless they ask you don't ask for a sale. Don't ask for a referral unless they volunteer it or the conversation just naturally goes that way, but may give them no reason to believe that the motivation of that call was for business purposes. Okay. Now, let me put this back in perspective. So I'm reaching out. I'm touching you. We say hello and checking on the kids. I'll write you a handwritten note. Couple of weeks later, I may say say hello again. A couple weeks later, I may call. Hey. Question Do you know anyone who's thinking of buying or selling a home? Does that spoil the relationship that you and I built simply by asking that as a friend? [00:49:13] Oh, God. That's a great question. [00:49:16] I don't think it was shit. It shouldn't be a trick question. You and I are friends. And I've demonstrated that over time and then I ask and say, hey, you know, anyone who's thinking of buying or selling home the relationship? [00:49:32] No. As long as you like. He said you have made that connection and stayed in contact with me on a regular basis. And it's not like you're just calling me out of the blue. That's right. [00:49:44] That's right. So here's the here's the key. It's okay to ask for business. But make sure you've established and nurture the friendship first and make sure you do it on a call that is strictly business related. Don't try to make it a personal call and then throw business into it. So keep the personal calls completely separate. And then as a separate event, you can ask for business on another call. And it's not going to spoil the relationship as long as the momentum of what you're touches or as long as your touches are really focused. Generally speaking, on the relationship. But that's your personal touch. Then your automated touches are rarely personal. This is where you get post-card set up. And by the way, as we're putting the structure in place. Okay, so let's talk about automation. Let me ask let me ask you, what do you think is more important content or technology? [00:50:52] Content. [00:50:53] Content. Exactly. Content is what you say, technology is how you deliver what you say. So don't get caught up with, oh, I've got this real fancy super duper e-mail auto responder system with artificial intelligence in it. That doesn't. That's great. But it's the content that's most important. Don't get caught up with. Well, I've got this automated postcard marketing system already. I just buy it off the shelf from this company. It's the content, not the technology. So make sure you focus on the content. On the content. Couple things you really think you really want focus on the core message. You want them to always remember about you. What is that? That makes it unique, that makes you special. That gives them a reason to want to choose you. And you want to make sure that that content is always there. You also want to be on the receiving end of that content. Make sure. Is this something they really want to get for me? Like an email? [00:51:59] Okay, if your if your email campaign is sending out an e-mail during springtime that says it's springtime, it's time to plant flowers. And that's the whole focus of the e-mail that's going to take your people off, because that's just wasting my time to tell me the obvious. Okay. So make sure that what you're putting out is good. And then the last thing and this is for a lot of agents, also fail. Years back when we started working with real estate agents and we were asking why are you doing business with us? And a lot of these are top producing agents that are doing business with us. And they gave me two answers. One is I need help. In making this happen, because I don't know what to do the other in about 50 50. The other half says, I know what to do, but I keep starting it. And then something comes up and I stop it. And it's a year or two before I remembered that I stopped it. Now I need to get back into it. And I'm just not consistent. Okay. So the way that you build that consistency is you create everything up front and then you have what I call lock and load and then you do put on autopilot. So you don't have to do it if you have to touch it every single week to get another e-mail out, every single month to get another postcard out, you will fail because you will get busy. You're going to it's like a diet. You break the diet, you cheat on your diet one meal and it's three or four months before you realize I'm off my diet because you just totally lost it. Does that make sense? [00:53:38] Yes, it does. You got to create everything up front and lock and load and then put it on autopilot so you don't have to touch it again. If you don't do that, then you're most likely going to be the yo yo person, you start it. You stop that, you start it. You stop in and it's never really worked for you. [00:54:00] So that can I put an unabashed plug for what we do with Agent Dominator? Absolutely. Okay. I know you would say that since your paycheck. Right. So everything we're talking about here is what we built in to Agent Dominator. The reason it works is not because Agent Dominators Fest is a fabulous system. It is the reason it works is not because Agent Dominator does what most agents don't do. It does. The reason it works is not because we have some fancy technology that no one else has. We do. But the reason it works is because it's right down the middle of the best practices of what you ought to be doing anyway. If you can constantly personally touch, constantly educate them on what creates your true why they should trust you and constantly say top of mind, you don't need any other system out there. Just like my friend I was sharing about earlier has more business and he can than he can handle. He turns it away and he's never spent a dime in marketing because he stays on top of it. But most people don't stay on top of it. Most people don't really know how to do it. And what we do with Agent Dominator is we do it all for you. [00:55:19] Okay. And as long as you're willing to pick up the phone and call or write a handwritten note to your personal contacts, we actually guarantee your results. So I would just encourage you to check that out. Here's something also were real cool because a lot of agents don't know if you realize this, but especially the long term producers sell both residential and commercial. So if that's actually one of you guys listening to this call, we do agent dominated with commercial as well on the investment properties because the folks who own investment properties are very similar to those who own houses. Right. If I own a little apartment building or a gas station also in my home, I'm not in an institutional investor. I just happen to have some real estate investment. And so finding listings there, getting them to choose you in the investment world is very similar to what you do in the residential world. So anyway, that's our plug before we wrap this call completely up. Is there anything that comes to mind that you'd like to ask or comments that you'd like to share? [00:56:38] I think I would just. And this is probably just me speaking from a personal standpoint, but I would encourage agents to offer above and beyond what other agents around them are offering. And I think that would be a great way for them to capitalize on referrals. It goes back to the trust buying and getting their name out there and really attracting business. I feel like they need to make themselves stand apart. That's something that help us choose our agent offering something that other agents we're not in addition to the fact that we always saw sold. So, you know, makes a difference. [00:57:19] You bring up one thing. I I'm a myth because I totally forgot it. So let me add it now at the end. This is this is bonus material. Great. If you're if you're one material. If you're one of my friends and you refer me a client and I send you a really special gift as a thank you note. What does that do to you? How do you respond? Does that make you feel special? Yes. Are you are you more likely to refer me again? Yes. Yes. So don't go cheap on that referral gift and don't give it only if that person that has been referred actually does business with you. The simple fact that, Penny, you referred someone to me, I'm going to woo you because I want more of that. Okay. That's a bonus for today's call. [00:58:14] Great. All right. This is a great call. Thank you so much for your time and expertise today. [00:58:21] Before we close out, do you have any last minute things that you want to share with our listeners? [00:58:26] I really don't. Unless you want more information about Agent Dominator, you can go to Agent Dominator dot com. There is a little forum there you can fill out. And if you love this type of teaching. Visit our website. Get sellers calling you dot com and you can find all kinds of other content there as well. [00:58:45] Yes, absolutely. I wish everyone a great week and a successful time in their business, whatever they're doing. Thanks for joining us, everybody. And we'll see you guys on the next one. Thank you, Beatty. [00:58:58] Thanks. Have a blessed day. All alrighty. p058 [/fusion_text][/fusion_builder_column][/fusion_builder_row][/fusion_builder_container]

In this bonus episode, Zach chats with Amanda Edwards, a Democratic candidate for the U.S. Senate, about her journey in electoral politics and the importance of voting ahead of Super Tuesday.Connect with Amanda on LinkedIn, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, and check out her website by clicking here.Visit our website.TRANSCRIPTZach: What's up, y'all? Look, it's Zach with Living Corporate, and yes, I know. It's a Monday. You're like, "Whoa, why are you dropping content on a Monday? The world is shifting! Why is reality as I know it splitting in half?!" No, you're probably not doing any of that. You're probably just like, "Yo, okay. Another podcast, okay." And that's what it is. It's, like, a bonus pod. Look, y'all. Remember when we had Royce West a couple--you know, it was, like, a week or two ago? A little bit ago. The point is, we had Senator Royce West on, Texas State Senator Royce West--what's up, respect to the man--to talk a little bit about voting and the importance of voting. Today is the day before Super Tuesday, right? Like, Tuesday, that's the day you vote for the person that you want to continue forward in the respective race, whether it be presidential or senatorial, and we have Amanda Edwards on. Amanda Edwards is someone who is running for U.S. Senate. She is a native Texan and former Houston City Council member who represented 2.3 million constituents, and she actually left that position to run for U.S. Senate. A pretty crowded race. We're talking a little bit about just her background and the importance of voting as well as really why we should vote. And you'll hear me say it in the podcast, y'all. Like, Living Corporate is about amplifying and centering black and brown experiences at work. I believe a way--not the only way, but a way to do that for yourself civically is by voting. And I recognize there are different positions, like going full dissident. We had Howard Bryant on the show, and he talked about the idea of Colin Kaepernick not voting, because he's like, "Look, if I believe that the system is inherently broken and I can't vote my way out of oppression, then why should I vote?" But, you know, there are different points of opinion on that. I do believe we have the right to vote. People are actively looking to take away our ability to vote, questioning our very right to be here. I believe a great way to just say that we matter is by voting. So make sure y'all check out this episode. Nothing changes for the rest of the week. We've got more content for your head top starting tomorrow and then Thursday and then Saturday, and then the marathon continues. 'Til next time, y'all. Peace.Zach: Amanda Edwards, welcome to the show. How are you doing?Amanda: I'm great. Thank you so much for having me on this morning.Zach: It's not a problem. Now, look, just to start, many people are saying that, you know, Texas is really truly the battleground state. So goes Texas, so goes the nation regarding tilting red or blue. So there have been, you know, accelerated attempts to speed that up. We've had Beto and Wendy's campaigns being notable in that regard. So with that let me ask you, do you think Texas is ready? And if so, what makes you the right choice to get us there?Amanda: Absolutely I believe Texas is in fact ready in 2020, and the question remains is will the Democrats put up the right candidate who will be able to unseat John Cornyn. It is not a far-gone conclusion that it will inevitably happen. It will happen if we put forward the correct candidate, and that is someone who can build upon the strengths of Beto's election. So when we looked at Beto's 2018 run, in a time where nobody thought it would be possible to flip the state of Texas, Beto came within 215,000 votes of doing so, and he did so in large part based on the strength of getting persuadable voters out to vote for him. In other words, people who were independent voters or people who were in suburbs or people who were in non-traditional markets, like smaller markets that typically don't vote heavily Democratically, those are areas and spaces and places in which he had tremendous success in terms of getting the vote out. Where there were still some opportunities left on the table happened to be--when you look closely at the numbers, you saw that communities of color, they registered in high numbers, but they didn't turn back out and vote in high numbers. There were less than 50% of the registered numbers. People under the age of 35 likewise had high levels of registration but did not turn out to vote in those same high levels. They were under 50% of their registered numbers. So what if you had a candidate who could, by virtue of her politics, allow her to galvanize those persuadable voters yet again, but in addition to that be able to build upon Beto's run and actually also bring in those communities of color that had registered but did not actually vote, bring them into the fold as well as those under the age of 35 who had this similar situation arise with registration versus actual turnout. If you can build all three of those coalitions, you will actually the votes necessary in order not just to come close but to actually beat John Cornyn and to make history in Texas, and that is what we're planning to do after getting out of this Democratic primary, which is in fact a very crowded field, but I think a very important testament to the significance of the time that we're living in. 'Cause it used to be the case where you couldn't get anybody to run in these primary elections because of how difficult the feat was considered to be. Now of course, people have internalized that Texas is in fact winnable now, and in fact, that's why a number of us are running in this race. I for one left my city council at-large state--I was representing about 2.3 million Texans--to pursue this because I know how significant and important it is that we not just come close but that we actually can win, and the only way to do that is by galvanizing those coalitions that I mentioned to you.Zach: So what have been some of the greatest, you know, advantages and biggest challenges in not only being young and being black and being a woman, but being a young black woman in this race?Amanada: Well, the first thing you always have to do is your homework, right? And we know that this is a change election, meaning there's gonna be a lot of non-traditional voters turning out to vote, and so you can as a result--I mean, just to [?] small statistic, since 2016 for example--and there's been well over 2.6 newly registered voters in Texas. Of that number, over 1.6 million of them are people of color and/or under the age of 25 years old. And so if you look at that or you think about that statistic, the electorate is changing. So someone who's younger, someone who is a person of color, is actually consistent with the wave of change that we're seeing in Texas as we speak. So these are not, you know, things that many people from the outside looking in might view to be challenges that I face or obstacles I see as strengths. And so we have a huge opportunity in our hands, putting in a candidate that looks and sounds and is about change. Also a candidate who has a track record for such. I think it's important when you have someone--when you talk to some of these communities that stayed at home last election cycle. Let's take some of the communities of color, for example. Back in '17 when Harvey struck my community, there was 51 inches of rainfall that fell across our community. Billions of dollars in damage, loss of life, loss of property, you name it. Devastation across a broad spectrum, and I got a phone call to go check on some of my low-income seniors. I said, "No problem," and I went, and I just went to their houses impromptu, and I learned they weren't removing the walls from their homes. And of course they had been soiled by the flood water, and that will result in mold setting in if you don't remove those walls. So I mobilized hundreds of volunteers. We went out and started going door to door. Well, the first question I was asked by many homes was "Oh, are you up for re-election?" And they asked it very innocently, but the question is an illustration of a much broader systemic problem in which people are only accustomed to seeing their elected officials when it's time for us to get a vote, and we've got to make it more than just about electoral politics and voting. We've got to make it about depositing in people's lives, and I think that's how you bridge that disconnect with a lot of these communities of color who are used to being exploited around election time only to see that the promises are never delivered, and we've got to have a messenger, which would be me, who can demonstrate when they ask "Well, why should I believe you that it will be different? Because I've heard this before," I can say it's been different for the communities that I've represented, and that's gonna be huge in bridging the disconnect. So again, another strength out of what some could perceive to be a disadvantage. I see it as a strength.Zach: I love it. So, you know, it's easy I think--and let's talk a little bit about, like, the presidential race as well, because it's Monday, the day before Super Tuesday, y'all. Y'all get out there and let's get to voting. Let's go. Let's move. But it's easy, right, for black and brown folks, I think, to look at the current slate of candidates and see that the Democratic Party does not really prioritize the voice and representation, like, of us, and with that in mind, I'm curious, why do you think it's important for that same group to vote in 2020 if the alternative could be just another candidate that will ultimately ignore them?Amanda: I think that's what my campaign is all about, not just electing--well, first I need you to elect me. [laughs] But that's just one step. The second is something that I've embarked upon as a local elected official, which has been about empowering people and to also hold their leadership accountable for the things that come out of [our?] mouth. So it's not good enough to see me in the campaign cycle and let me go away and not come back until the next campaign cycle, because how do you get what you deserve in your community unless you hold me accountable? We have to have an open line of communication. This open line can be state-wide. It relates to not just being responsive to constituent requests but being present in communities, hosting a town hall. When I come to you, you should be having the report card out. "Well, where are you with this? We talked about this. What's the timing on this?" Or not even a report card. I should just proactively share with you where we are with that. That's being effective as a leader in delivering results. Before I got into politics, I will tell you, I was a [?] lawyer. I was a municipal finance lawyer. You don't get paid [?] 'til the deal gets closed. So in my mind I'm hard-wired to think in terms of deliverables, right? And so you have to close the deal before you get paid for it. In the world of politics, people just give speeches all the time and not see progress. In some kind of way that's doing your job, and I just don't think that the bar is high enough. I think doing your job is bringing home the things, the change you discussed on the campaign trail and not pointing fingers. What if the premium was [?]? And this also turns to the electorate, okay? Constituents have to raise the bar for themselves. It cannot be that you say "I want to send a boxer to go perform surgery." If you're asking somebody to bring home deliverables like policy changes, it's not about me beating somebody else in the public arena, in public. It's not about me getting some cable news, you know, applause for some Tweet I made. It's about going and getting those bills passed, and that's what we have to begin to focus our attention on. So often it's the case that we focus on the fight versus focus on the result, and I think there's a role to be played by the electorate to understand that. You've got to be focused on who do we think is a mover in that place and get something done there. That's what we should be rewarding, not so much who can be mean like Donald Trump or who can, you know, fight him. I mean, that's part of the equation, but that's not the exclusive element that we should be focused on. You know, and I think that gets lost, and that's a huge detail. I mean, part of the dysfunction we have in Washington, the polarization, is because we elect people to go in and be polarizing.Zach: So, you know, you mentioned Donald Trump, and it's interesting because the next thing I was gonna ask you was about millennials and Gen Z black and brown voters in this cycle keep getting told that we have to make compromises in order to beat Trump, which often means accepting candidates that have troubling racial records, right? And I don't even know why I'm saying troubling racial records. People got records out here that's showing that they're mad racist and/or--this is my show, I'ma stop trying to use all this little political language. I ain't playing with y'all. You know what I'm saying, they got some crazy stuff happening in their past, but we're challenged to vote for them anyway. So, like, should we make that trade-off? And if so, why?Amanda: I think you vote for what you want to see. I mean, some people try to--because ultimately that's what change is about. So if you see a candidate that espouses the change you want to see and enough people see it, I mean, whether you are in agreement with Bernie Sanders or not, you know, he was seemingly a long-shot early on, right? And now of course you see him gaining momentum, and it's not because people say "Oh, he's gonna be the easy one to win early on." They got behind him. They wanted to see what he was talking about. Same thing with a litany of other candidates that we've seen. Obama, you know? Obama was not the likely candidate to emerge.Zach: I remember that in high school, yeah.Amanda: He was the unlikely candidate, and people just wanted to see that change that he described so they got behind him. And we've done it for good and for bad. I mean, Donald Trump is another example. You know, my good example is Barack Obama, President Obama. My bad example is Donald Trump. But people wanted to see somebody mess up the system, you know? They wanted to see the establishment just turned on its head, and I don't know if they're all pleased with the way it was turned on its head or not, but he's had a critical mass of supporters stick with him, and you just--you know, in both Obama's example and Trump's example, neither of those were considered the likeliest candidate. So it's about seeing what you want to see. So you support who you believe can deliver the change you're looking for, and if the candidate that you see--you know, the candidate that you're being told to vote for isn't that person, then don't vote for him, 'cause you're the one who's gonna be holding the bag with the policies they promote. Zach: That's a fact though. No, that's true, and I think the reality is--I saw this somewhere on Twitter, 'cause you know, Twitter has all the quotables, but it said something like "The person who's electable is the person you vote for." Right? Like, just vote for 'em.Amanda: That's right. I love that.Zach: Okay. So in this country and in this state, public or private, the quality of your education has more to do with the value of your home and your zip code than your work ethic. So when you're in the Senate and you're asked to confirm the next secretary of education, what would you ask them to change?Amanda: Well, #1 I need a secretary of education that actually believes in public education. Can we just start there?Zach: Man. Yo, what is up with her, man?Amanda: I hate to start--Zach: Nah, let's let these shots off. No, let's go. Come on. [ratatata sfx]Amanda: It's such a fundamental [?]. If you don't believe that public education should even be there, that's probably not the person to have over the department of ed, #1. #2, I would make sure that we have strategies in place for our students to be successful no matter where they're in school. One of the things that is just--you know, you've heard about the phrase "The silent bigotry of low to no expectations," right? And for us to not have those expectations of our students and put systems in place for success, pathways for success, and not just success today. I'm talking about leading the next generation of jobs. You know, why--I do a lot of work on tech and innovation, and people always--you know, and I do a lot of work in minority communities as well, and they don't see those things as being harmonious, and I'm saying this should be something that's in all of our classrooms. We should be introducing our young people to the concept of entrepreneurship and, you know, just all of the things. We should be making those introductions. We shouldn't just be teaching for tests, okay? Because kids, that's not preparing them for life. I'm not saying you can't have a test, but we've gone crazy with it. We cannot just be there for tests and that's the measure for success. We have to do better, and we have to have a well-rounded education where people have multiple pathways for success, including vocational, but also including four-year institutions no matter where you live and how much money you make. In Texas we have seen the course challenged time and time and time and time again, our full financing structure, and that requires us to say education is a right, which we have not gone as far to say. So you're not going to see the reforms that you truly need to see, which is--you know, the connection between where you live and the quality of your education doesn't make any sense. Education is our great equalizer, yet we're perpetuating how unequal it actually is by virtue of tying it to your income--I mean, of tying it to your property tax value. This is not something that makes any sense, but we continue to perpetuate the systems because, you know, we have people in office who don't believe that public education has value. I am a product of public high school, and I will tell you, you know, it is so important that we are investing more than what we have in the past, because there's so many other challenges and conflating variables our students face. So I'm a proponent of making sure that all of our students, no matter where they go to school, can be successful. They need to see that. I like to go back to my alma mater and, you know, model the behavior. You should have expectations of going to school, and they've got to see it. They're not necessarily going to see that at home all the time, so we've got to supplement that with the support they're getting in school, but truthfully speaking, a lot of the support that I recall being in school when I was a student are no longer there 'cause they got cut. We balance our state budgets on the backs of our students all of the time, and consequently our students have fewer resources to succeed, like wrap around services, and just--I could go on and on and on and on about what needs to happen with our education system, but I think first and foremost we need somebody innovative coming to the table, bring some new ideas to the table, and I would be highly eager to see, once we get our new president in office, that we bring somebody in who can be serious about educating our youth so we'll have a prepared workforce for tomorrow.Zach: So that sets me up well for my last question before we let you go. So irrespective of who wins the election in November, the Democratic primary race has shown that there is a more progressive, ethnically diverse voting population that is [?], so what do you believe the Democratic Party at large can do to ensure that they capitalize on this ever-growing reality?Amanda: In terms of electoral politics?Zach: Yes.Amanda: I think we've got to make sure that we're putting up candidates that are receptive to the issues that these communities face, and too often I'm asked, "Oh, [?]?" And I say, "Well, I think it's additive to be honest with you." I think, you know, the black community cares about health care access and education just like anybody else would, but they also have other issues in addition that they care about. But what [?] me is when people try to reduce it down to one issue, and that's the only issue that we face. The truth is we have additional issues that we have to contend with, and we have to have a broad spectrum of answers that are responsive to the broad spectrum of media. And so we've got to have to figure out how to do that. I'd like for us to be serious about elections, more serious about how we treat our elections in general with a national holiday for Election Day. I mean, I just think it's crazy that we don't have that in our country. Obviously we know why that is not the case, but it should be, and just--you know, we have holidays for all kinds of things that don't make a lot of sense, but we don't do that for Election Day? And that's the primary part of how our democracy works? I think that's problematic. So yeah, I think we've got to really start to not view the diverse candidates that do come forward as being candidates that have challenges because they're diverse. I think they're candidates that are stronger because of being diverse candidates, 'cause that's the direction the country is headed, and we should support our candidates and support diversity within that representation, but also provide for more ways to provide clear sources of information that are truthful, you know? Like, some people pick up the League of Women Voters guide and things like that, but a lot of people don't even know where to start with this stuff.Zach: Right, you're absolutely right.Amanda: You know, and it's very overwhelming as someone who's been in government and in electoral politics. It's overwhelming for people the kind of questions I get. "How do I register? When do I register?" Why isn't there one clear depository for all the information for these things where you could just information for candidates, information for--you know, just things like that. There should be some kind of clarity provided for people to make it easier to participate.Zach: From an accessibility perspective, right?Amanda: Yeah. You're kind of on your own out there, and I just think that's not the way to make it accessible to the masses.Zach: Amanda, this has been a great interview, a great conversation. Thank you so much for having us. Y'all, it's Monday, the day before Super Tuesday. Making sure we bring y'all the stuff to make sure that y'all continue to have your voice amplified and centered, and you can't do that if--well, look, for the sake of this podcast and this conversation, I'ma say you voting is a critical way to amplify and center your voice. Let's make sure you get out there and you vote, and we'll catch y'all next time. Peace, y'all.

There's a lot of information about the Coronavirus but there isn't a lot out there specifically for people with diabetes. This week, we're releasing our weekly episode early to bring you what you need to know. Join the Diabetes Connections Facebook Group! Stacey talks to CDE Gary Scheiner, who lives with type 1 diabetes. They go over everything from protecting yourself or your child (spoiler: not much different from what you'd do without diabetes), having a good sick day protocol in place in case you or your child does contract the virus. They also talk about about how we can be ready for in terms of social disruption. In other words, should we be stockpiling supplies? Gary says no and explains why. CDC Coronavirus Information Page Gary Scheiner's Integrated Diabetes Services   Check out Stacey's new book: The World's Worst Diabetes Mom! Sign up for our newsletter here ----- Use this link to get one free download and one free month of Audible, available to Diabetes Connections listeners! ----- Get the App and listen to Diabetes Connections wherever you go! Click here for iPhone      Click here for Android Episode Transcription (please excuse grammar, spelling, punctuation) UPDATE: Enhanced Transcript Here Stacey Simms  0:00 Diabetes Connections is brought to you by One Drop created for people with diabetes by people who have diabetes by Real Good Foods, real food you feel good about eating and by Dexcom take control of your diabetes and live life to the fullest with Dexcom   Announcer  0:21 this is Diabetes Connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms  0:27 Welcome to a slightly different episode of Diabetes Connections as always, I am your host, Stacey Simms, but this week is going to be a little different because I just want to focus on one topic. we are going to talk about diabetes and the coronavirus. There is a lot of chatter online. There are a lot of concerns. I've taken a lot of calls and private messages. I'm sure you have to you know from well meaning family and friends who may not even have diabetes. And I thought rather than address it piece by piece, we would least start the conversation. I'm sure it will not end here. But we'll start it by having a really grounded and factual conversation with a diabetes educator who can address everything from what the virus itself means for a person with diabetes, what precautions you may want or may not want to take what's real, what's fake. We're also going to be talking about if there are societal disruptions, right? They've been talking about if stores are closed, if schools are closed, what should we be thinking about now, in terms of medical supplies, let me do a brief explanation of the corona virus I know most of you already know. But just in case you haven't heard of basic explanation, then we're going to get right to the interview with a certified diabetes educator and person with type one, Gary Scheiner. Coronaviruses and there is more than one they are a large family of viruses. And it can be it could be the common cold that they cause it can be much more severe disease. The reason we're talking about This one in a different way is because it is a new strain. It hadn't been previously identified in people. As many of you know, it started in China, but it is spreading from person to person, somebody who's actively sick can spread the illness to others. The first case in the United States was reported January 21, the first confirmed instance of a person to person spread within the United States right, which is different from someone traveling here with it was reported on January 30. You can find out a lot more from the CDC. I will be linking up the information page from the CDC and some other sources at the episode homepage at diabetes connections. com. I'll also let you know that a couple of days after the episode airs, I will be working to turn it into not just a transcript but more of a blog post so it's easily shareable. You know, a lot of people don't listen to podcasts, but they will read a blog post and I'd really like you to be able to share this with as many people as you can. Media outlets are of course All over this but very few are talking about what it means for people with diabetes. So let's get to it. My guest this week is Gary Scheiner. He is the owner and clinical director of Integrated Diabetes Services, a company that specializes in remote consulting for people who use insulin and we'll talk about how remote consulting and remote services may play a part in the response to the coronavirus. Gary has also been living with Type One Diabetes since 1985. And in 2014, he was named as the Diabetes Educator of the Year by the American Association of Diabetes Educators. Gary is always a wonderful source of calm, reliable information here on the podcast. And he really came on with very short notice and I appreciate that very much. One more quick thing. I'm going to jump back in at the end of the episode after the interview, I want to talk to you briefly about media and how you consume media, especially in a time like this. I worked in local TV and radio news for 20 years. So just some advice and some things to look out for. All right, here's my conversation with Gary Scheiner.   Stacey Simms4:07 Gary, thanks for jumping on with pretty short notice to talk about this. I really appreciate it.   Gary Scheiner  4:11 My pleasure.   Stacey Simms4:12 I don't want to downplay anything I know I'm here to get the information in. But I have to say, I'm really concerned with what I'm seeing online. Are you hearing from people who have have these concerns in the diabetes community and, frankly, getting frightened?   Gary Scheiner  4:27 Yeah, I mean, with good reason. This is a it's a pretty serious viral infection that's spreading around. It's not that much different from other viruses like the flu. And you know, the way we contain it and control it and prevented for that matter are very similar. But when people do get it, it's a tough one to fight. You don't have effective ways of treating it.   Stacey Simms4:48 So we're going to talk a lot about diabetes here. Obviously, that's what we're all about. But let me just start by defining a few things. Do people with diabetes in general, get more viruses. Can you speak to that? Because I've been told time and time again, Type One Diabetes is an autoimmune disease, it doesn't mean that your immune system is suppressed,   Gary Scheiner  5:09 if anything, our immune systems have that hyperactive, right, okay. But yes, people with diabetes generally are higher risks for all kinds of infections, both bacterial and viral, but it really comes down to the degree of glucose control that a person has. There are certain things that impair proper immune function and one of those is high blood sugar. chronically elevated glucose levels can impair immune function of the other things are things like lack of sleep and a very poor diet and very high stress levels. But for someone with diabetes who's not managing their glucose, well, their risk for infection is certainly increased.   Stacey Simms5:50 Okay. So if someone with a higher frequency and elevated agency who is not getting for whatever reason, you know, access to healthcare or even their own education, if they're at higher risk What about people who have lower agencies who what I guess we would call generally better controlled or well controlled? Are they still at more risk for getting viruses,   Gary Scheiner  6:09 it's less of an increased risk. But you have to consider glucose variability in the equation as well, which is a stress on the body, it seems to cause inflammatory responses. So you know what we're talking about. You can have a beautiful looking a one c but but have a lot of peaks and valleys, highs and lows throughout the day. And that sets us up for all kinds of acute and chronic health problems.   Stacey Simms6:35 Okay, well, let's cut to the chase though. If I have two kids. I have a kid with a 7.5 A1C, for example, and I have another child who doesn't have type one at all. Do I have to lock one in the house and the other one is going to be okay?   Gary Scheiner  6:46 Well locking her in the house might be a good idea anyway (laughs). I mean, yes, she is going to be at a little bit of an increased risk. We see the risk of these types of problems almost go up exponentially when the A1C starts getting up into the 9 or 10 range and with an A1C in the 6 or 7s, the risk is slightly increased. I wouldn't say it's dramatically higher than in someone without diabetes, but there is some increased risk. The other issue is managing the glucose if you do get sick, which becomes more challenging, but even more important, because when glucose levels are elevated, you're sort of aiding and abetting the infection that virus or bacteria has a lot of fuel to grow off of. So you're feeding the enemy in a way if your blood sugar is poorly controlled, when you're sick, running a lot of high blood sugars is going to extend your recovery time and cause your symptoms they become that much worse.   Stacey Simms7:44 Well and that's tough to begin with because, at least in my personal experience, when my son gets any kind of illness, his blood sugar goes up.   Gary Scheiner  7:51 this strategies for managing it though, teach most of our patients about self adjusting their basal insulin doses weather right A pub or shots, ramping up the basal insulin is a very effective way to combat the insulin resistance that's caused by the illness.   Stacey Simms8:08 I guess step one, then is with Coronavirus or any illness have a sick day plan, right? Call your health care provider, call your endo if you don't have a sick day plan of attack, like you said, even raising basal rates doing other things. Yeah,   Gary Scheiner  8:21 yeah, we try to it has to be customized a little bit depending on what kind of treatment every patients receiving. In the certain tenants, though, that applied almost everyone who's on insulin, the insulin dose is likely going to need to be increased, especially if they start noticing elevated blood sugar. ketone checks become pretty important. It helps us figure out the severity of the illness and the magnitude of insulin increase that's going to be required. Hydration is extremely important as well and people with diabetes are more prone to dehydration when they're sick and then someone without diabetes and adequate nutrition. Also, the body still needs energy to combat the illness so you don't want to starve a person when there's Yeah, they still need that. I think parents used to refer to this as the BRAT diet it's just easily digested simple foods that you don't have to work too hard to break down. I don't remember exactly what brats   Stacey Simms9:18 I think I might get it wrong. I think it's bananas rice, apples toast, but I might have made that up.   Gary Scheiner  9:24 Maybe apple sauce,   Stacey Simms9:25 sauce, apple sauce Apples seem a little yucky when you’re sick. Gary Scheiner  9:29 we tell people you know all those foods they avoid because they spike their blood sugar. Those are the things you want to eat when you're sick. You know, the soft fruits, cereals, things like that. Oatmeal, things that just digest quickly and easily just to lessen the load on the body   Stacey Simms9:45 with Coronavirus itself. In terms of sick day, do we know enough to know how it might affect people with diabetes yet?   Gary Scheiner  9:53 Well, it'll it'll affect them just like it affects a person without diabetes, but in a person with diabetes It's gonna cause the glucose levels to rise as well. But in somebody with diabetes and without you're going to see some intense inflammation of the respiratory tract. One of the unique things about it compared to some other viruses like the flu is it can cause some severe shortness of breath which we don't always see with with other communicable common illnesses. So that's something to watch for. The preventive measures are the same. We do we would do the same things to prevent Khurana virus as we would know the common cold and the flu. No frequent hand washing is a very important thing. You know, I tell patients to be a bit OCD about your handwashing be very compulsive about that. Get a flu shot, because you can prevent any form of the flu it anytime that's beneficial. Be very careful around people who have signs of respiratory illnesses who are coughing, sneezing, etc. Keep your distance or just try to be very cautious about physical contact with them. extra hand washing   Stacey Simms11:13 do those masks that people are buying do those work I've heard mixed results   Gary Scheiner  11:18 they will only work if you're within coughing vicinity of somebody who is contracted the illness in general they don't work I mean walking around the airport cetera with these masks on is going to do virtually no good. These airborne germs can still get into your nasal passages and into your lungs and spread from there. So in general, the masks are not a very effective preventive option. It's more than the traditional stuff. You know the handwashing get your flu shot. Try to avoid indoor air too much research related air is no good to be in a humid environment that also is beneficial. If your house is dry especially in the wintertime use a humidifier. That's the first place where germs can penetrate into the body is the nasal passages and if they dry out due to dry air, you're kind of opening the door and marshaling a germs into your into your system. So you humid environment does help.   Stacey Simms12:19 You mentioned handwashing, do hand sanitizers work at all,   Gary Scheiner  12:22 they're a little bit beneficial, but just washing with soap and water is generally sufficient. It may not be convenient to do that anytime, anywhere. So carrying hand sanitizer after you've been like at a meeting, shaking hands, etc is a good idea. Even though places like the grocery store where your hands on the cart and you're touching a lot of things, using a hand sanitizer, there is a good idea.   Stacey Simms12:48 One of the things that's been reported and this may change as we learn more and more about the coronavirus and and any effects it has here is that we may see more of a social and a societal disruption Then we do run the risk of actually contracting it. In other words, there may be times when your municipality says, you know, stay home, or they ask people not to travel or there's disruptions in trade. So one of the things that I've heard from several people, and again, this is something we are talking about, and that's something that has been announced. So as you listen, please take it as we're discussing it here as a potential should I be stockpiling diabetes supplies?   Gary Scheiner  13:26 I just got off the phone with a patient in Cincinnati who asked me the same exact question that you brought up, should I be stockpiling insulin and strips and sensors and this and that, and right now, the answer is no. You really don't need to do that. The pharmaceutical companies are, manufacture things under very sterile conditions, and even their distribution channels handle things in a very sterile way. So you should be fine, as far as getting your supplies and getting supplies. That are guaranteed to be safe and clean. So you really don't need to be hoarding supplies at this point. Order response is kind of dangerous, because you may cause shortages for people who really need things.   Stacey Simms14:15 That always worries me because that's exactly the problem, right? We think, Okay, I'm going to help myself, but in doing so you might wind up overdoing and hurting others. So just to clarify what you said, again, this is from social media, Gary, so I apologize for even bringing it up. But I have seen it I know others have as well. It's been these things have been circulating now that you know, we get so much of our medication from overseas and cheap stuff from China, that now you have to be scared of your medicine because of the coronavirus. I have no idea if there's any truth to that. I hate bringing up something right. We can't verify it, but I couldn't think of anything diabetes related that we can't track to where it is manufactured.   Gary Scheiner  14:53 Right. Now the virtually everything we're using in the states is manufactured here. And you have to also consider The Coronavirus like any virus, it's a living organism, it has to be attached to something that is providing it with some form of nutrient plastic packaging and pills and bottles are not going to provide nutrients that keep a virus alive. So generally speaking, you don't have to be concerned about contamination that way.   Stacey Simms15:21 Well, I think we, it's a great point, because I think we do have this sense when these scares come up, that these germs are catching a ride, and just, you know, hop it in the storage container. So I know it's kind of funny to talk about it that way. But you know, that's what I think a lot of us we have these misconceptions, so thank you for clearing them up. I don't remember who it was SARS or h1 and one. But when we've had you know, scares in the past, that's when a lot of grocery stores decided to test that order in advance, use your phone to order groceries and then drive up and pick them up afterwards. They did that because they were concerned that people would not go to the grocery store. So you don't know what's going to come out of these things. Because, you know, and now people do that because It's just super convenient and nobody wants to wait.   Gary Scheiner  16:02 Right. It's the same reason we've been doing. Providing tele health care people for years now is its convenience. It's also it's it is a little bit safer, you know, going out and being in an office with a lot of other people. Yeah, you knows what you could catch.   Stacey Simms16:18 You mentioned earlier at the very beginning of this interview, that people with diabetes you If anything, the immune system is overactive. And I know that, as you said, there are risks there are, especially with higher agencies, but does that overactive immune system do anything that we haven't talked about when it's hit with a virus like this?   Gary Scheiner  16:38 Not really, it overacted in a very selective way. Okay. Yeah, it's only targeting those beta cells. It would be nice if it could attack viruses and bacteria we would be super humans.   Stacey Simms16:51 That's what I was hoping you were gonna say that sometimes, you know,   Gary Scheiner  16:54 humans who require insulin that's that would be great, but we don't quite have that level. Whole superpower just yet.   Stacey Simms17:03 Not to say for stockpiling, but when we talk about sick days, is there anything that you would recommend people have on hand? I'll give you an example my doctor especially when it was very little would recommend we have full sugar popsicles, because we never kept those in the house. You know, not an a sick day, but they were great because a little kid who doesn't want to eat but needs insulin for ketones could do that. Anything else come to mind?   Gary Scheiner  17:27 Well, something that I keep around is is something like Gatorade, or with kids Pedialyte, just beverages that have a low sugar concentration that are easily absorbed easily digest that even if somebody has an upset stomach is nauseous is weak, it those things provide some electrolytes. They provide a little bit of carbohydrate and fluids which is critical. So that's that's a good thing to keep around. It's pretty accessible. You could walk in any convenience store and pick that sort of thing up but other things Things like ibuprofen acetaminophen is good to have around in case there's fever. If they're Imodium is a good product for for diarrhea, just those kind of things are are helpful Keto Stix. Most people don't think they'll ever need them. But when you're sick, it's very important to be checking for ketones. That's something to get ahold of now,   Stacey Simms18:22 does it matter if you use the sticks or the blood ketone meter? Do you have a preference as an educator?   Gary Scheiner  18:28 Well, the blood meter is better, it's a more timely measurement. It'll take several hours for ketones in the bloodstream to show up in the year and to catch ketones sooner with a blood test. The blood test also gives you a more specific measurable value, the urine strips you're you're comparing different shades of pink and tan and it's a very subtle difference. So to be able to communicate with your health team and say I don't know how high it's pink it's tan, but you know on a on a blood meter You will get a specific measure of ketones in the bloodstream, you'll get, like 1.3. That's your number that's easier to share with your clinicians.   Stacey Simms19:09 Let me ask you one more question about this. And it's okay if you don't want to answer but as a person who lives with type one, I mean, obviously, you educate many people, you are a healthcare provider for many people, but for yourself, when this kind of thing happens, do you worry more because of type one?   Gary Scheiner  19:25 I really don't. I feel like the things I'm doing day in and day out, minimize my risk. You know, there's some things that we have control over in life and some things we don't, the things we do day in and day out to manage our diabetes, that's within our control. Whether those blood sugars look great or not, is not always in our control because of all the variables and it's the same thing with with an illness like a Coronavirus or the flu or pneumonia. You take certain precautions, you put yourself in a position to avoid them. But if you sit around just worrying about that that doesn't do any good. In fact, the stress that that cause can compromise your own immune system. So it's really best to just do the right things feel good about that, and then let the chips fall where they may.   Stacey Simms20:12 Well, Gary, I really appreciate you helping me with good information and taking the time tonight. And I know, hey, you're in the middle of seeing patients. And so I appreciate you taking some time out for this. Thanks so much.   Gary Scheiner  20:23 Oh, anytime for you, Stacy.   Stacey Simms20:30 You're listening to diabetes connections with Stacey Simms.   Stacey Simms20:36 I'll link up lots of information at diabetes connections dot com and as I said, I'll be working in the days after this episode airs to turn this into not just a transcript, which will be available immediately at the episode homepage, but also into a blog post because I think it's easier to read if you've seen our transcripts. I think they're really good compared to you know what is out there right now, especially with diabetes speak, but honestly Reading a transcript is not like reading a blog post, right? We don't talk the way we write. So I would like to be able to share this with as many people as possible. And I'll get that to you as soon as I can. (UPDATE: Blog post here) I mentioned before the interview with Gary that I wanted to talk to you about media for just a moment. And I think it's really important to think about how you consume media at all times. But especially at a time like this, when Let's face it, a lot of people are going to be talking about things that they know nothing about. So please, if you're watching your local TV news, I'm not disparaging anyone. I'm not saying that. Nobody knows what they're talking about. I'm saying watch and listen carefully. I've worked at these stations. I know how it rolls, they're completely understaffed. There are very few beat reporters anymore. So it's a very good chance that the person covering this story was covering City Hall yesterday and was covering the local sports team the day after that. It doesn't mean that they're smart. It doesn't mean they're giving you bad information. It may mean especially on the local level that they are overwhelmed. So I would listen more to the source than the reporter on this. I have already seen as this is social media, which is a different story altogether. I have already seen local reporters, and I'm sure this is happening on the national level as well say things like, I'm not sure this feels right. Or this is what they're saying. But what do you think? Right? And using words like seems like sounds like feels like, that's not a reporter's job. I don't mind if the doctor the local hospital is saying something like that to me, right? Or if the reporter is quoting someone, but if your local TV anchor starts talking about feelings, it's time to stop listening to the Medical News that they're trying to import. Same thing for cable news roundtables. I mean, I think we all know this, but I don't know a lot of people who will, you know, say it out loud. If somebody is telling you what they think or feel, and they are not a medical professional. I'd be really careful about listening to that. Nobody wants a panic here. I don't anybody's trying to hide information. But you know, there's a reason why all those masks have sold out even though everyone is telling us they don't work, right. I mean, Gary alluded to it, but I'm sure you've heard the reporting that as soon as the mask is moist from your breath, or you know, just from the droplets, it sounds gross from your mouth, you've probably got an hour before it's permeable, right? These are not surgical grade meant to be worn for a long time masks that your friends are walking through the airport with, I'm certainly not going to panic. I'm in a place right now where I am listening. I am learning. I am cautious. I think back to other pandemics that we've been through, and big Hey, red light flashing warning. I'm going to talk to you about how this feels to me. Right. So this is the opinion part where I'm just sharing what's going through my brain, not to give you any sort of medical advice. You know, I think back to the SARS outbreak, which seemed equally scary at the time, I think back to h one in one, which was in 2009 because it really impacted us It hit people in Our area and my daughter's summer camp, a four week session was canceled. Because there were people who were ill at the camp already they had figured out that that week of pre camp where people are working and setting up and the counselors are arriving, there were people with symptoms and signs and then a diagnosed case. So they canceled the session out of proactive safety. So things are going to start happening, things are going to feel scary. I think it's really important that we seek out good sources of information that can help us because as families touched by diabetes, we do have to think about different things. So I think in closing, let's rely on reliable sources. Let's be careful of what we're posting on social media. Let's look at the facts. Let's be smart. And let's keep learning footnote before I let you go. This episode was taped on Thursday, February 27. The Interview with Gary was done on Wednesday, February 26. I don't always timestamp the interviews and episodes like this. But you know, podcasting is not the best way. Breaking news source. So I really think it's important and I'll put those dates out there when I post on social media as well, because I want you to know when and where the information came from. All right, thank you, as always to my editor John Bukenas. From audio editing solutions. Thank you very much for listening to this different shorter episode of diabetes connections will be back on Thursday with one of the mini episodes and then next Tuesday back to our regularly scheduled programming. I'm Stacey Simms, and I'll see you back here on Thursday.   Diabetes Connections is a production of Stacey Simms media. All rights reserved. All rounds avenged   Transcribed by https://otter.ai

Dr. Melissa K. Miller, 2019 ICS Faculty Fellow and Associate Professor of Political Science at BGSU, discusses her research on women in politics. Dr. Miller shares her findings from her analysis of media coverage of the unprecedented number of women running for office during the 2018 election cycle. Dr. Miller explores how media coverage influences voter perception of mothers running for office. Transcript: Introduction: From Bowling Green State University and the Institute for the Study of Culture and Society. This is BG Ideas. Musical Intro: I'm going to show you this with a wonderful experiment. Jolie S.: To the BG Ideas podcast. A collaboration between the Institute for the Study of Culture and Society and the School of Media and Communication at Bowling Green State University. I'm Jolie Sheffer, an associate professor of English and American culture studies and the director of ICS. Today I'm joined by one of ICS' faculty fellows, Dr. Melissa K. Miller. She's an associate professor of political science and affiliated faculty in the department of women's gender and sexuality studies here at BGSU. Her current research is focused on women who are mothers who ran congressional campaigns in the 2018 midterm elections. This is the first extensive bi-partisan study of mother candidates and we're thrilled to be here to discuss her research. Thanks for joining me, Melissa. Melissa M.: Thanks for having me. Jolie S.: The 2018 midterm elections really put the spotlight on women running for political office. Can you talk to us about what initially drew you to focus on candidates who were also mothers? Melissa M.: I really have always been interested in the intersection of women, media, voters, campaigning. Gender and politics is a study of my research and I'm an expert on American politics. What happened? I go all the way back to 2008. A friend and colleague of mine, Dr. Jeff Peak, he's a presidency scholar. I'm a gender scholar within the political science department and we decided to do a collaborative project where we content coded press coverage of the presidential candidates back in 2008 and we thought what a great slew of candidates to look at. I of course was most interested in looking at how Hillary Clinton was covered by the press in her 2008 attempt to get the democratic nomination. Melissa M.: He was interested in all the candidates as a presidency scholar and so we did a press coverage study of Hillary Clinton and it was amazing to do. We published our results in the journal called Politics and Gender and there were some real gendered aspects of her coverage that really jumped out. In the midst of that campaign, from my perspective as a gender scholar, I was so pleased to be able to study Hillary Clinton's press coverage. We content coded 6,000 news articles about the democratic race specifically to look at her coverage and then come around August, John McCain, the Republican nominee named Sarah Palin, the Alaska governor as his running mate. And so suddenly our study is underway and it was like we'd won the lottery. Melissa M.: At least it felt that way for me. Holy cow, now I can study a Republican woman also competing not for president but as a vice presidential running mate. So we also, Jeff Peak and I, did a study of how Sarah Palin was covered and in both Clinton's coverage and Palin's coverage back in 2008 there were real gendered coverage markers. Their gender was mentioned at a disproportionate rate. Their marital status was mentioned at a disproportionate rate. In Hillary Clinton's case, her press coverage was much more negative than her male rivals and the content of that negative coverage was highly personal. Really personal descriptives that were very negative about her. Melissa M.: For Sarah Palin, her coverage was very distinguished by the fact that she was objectified. Her appearance and clothing was mentioned off the charts relative to Joe Biden who was the democratic counterpart on the democratic ticket. So fast forward, we published these two studies, one about Clinton, one about Palin and a couple of years go by and I get an email from a couple of scholars who are interested in publishing a book on the intersection of motherhood and politics. And they reached out to me knowing my work on the 2008 campaign and the two Clinton and Palin studies I'd published. And they said, "Would you be willing to write our chapter on mothers running for political office and their media coverage?" Melissa M.: I said, "Absolutely." So I did a deep dive back into that 2008 data and I wrote a book chapter really dissecting going back into all the articles and looking about how their motherhood status was portrayed in 2008 and it was fascinating and it suggested to me right away that motherhood can be both an asset and a liability on the campaign trail. So for Hillary Clinton in 2008 her daughter Chelsea was an adult. Chelsea was out on the campaign trail. Chelsea was viewed positively. The coverage in the media was that she was sort of an asset to her mother, really effective on the stump. For Palin, it was scandal, scandal, scandal with her kids and it was a different, she had young children. The youngest was a special need infant. She had five kids. There were three separate scandals that the press really sort of harped on. Melissa M.: One was the pregnancy of her teenage daughter. One was the use of state funds as governor of Alaska to take her kids with her to official events. And the third was the use of Republican campaign funds to pay for clothing for her kids. It was a real negative in her coverage. Over the course of that research too, of course, I'm soaking up and reading everything. There's very little scholarly work on mothers and how they're treated on the campaign trail, so what I'm finding is more press coverage accounts and what I find is that for instance, Lisa Madigan, the Illinois attorney general was badgered by the Chicago Sun Times when she was considering running for governor. Already elected to statewide office by the way but badgered by the press for how could she raise young kids while being governor. Jane Swift, this is going back to 2001 so a little bit further back, was Lieutenant governor ascended. Melissa M.: She was next in line. The governor leaves office mid term. She ascends. She's vilified in the press because she's eight months pregnant with two twins. One set of twins. I said that wrong. You go back a little further. Patty Murray was derided as just a mom in tennis shoes by a Washington state legislator when she was not yet running for office but she was lobbying her state legislature to save an important preschool program in the state of Washington. While she went on and took that derisive comment by a male state legislator and made it a campaign slogan and ended up running for office and eventually won a seat in the US Senate. So as I'm reading all of this for this motherhood chapter in the book that was published recently, it's called Mothers and Others, I just thought, oh my goodness, more work has to be done. Melissa M.: There've been so many strides that have been made frankly in terms of women's press coverage but it seemed to me that it's still problematic. I think the media and possibly voters have not yet grappled with, is it okay for a mom to run for high office if she has young kids and questions would be raised about the appropriateness of this. In a way that in my own view and studying press coverage, those kinds of questions are not typically raised about men with young children. So I wanted to do a project. Jolie S.: And with that project, what are the kinds of women you're talking about when you are following candidates on the campaign trail? Do they share similar demographics, political affiliations or other characteristics? Melissa M.: I'm actively trying to interview both Republicans and Democrats. It's a little bit harder to find Republicans because there were not as many women who ran in 2018. The big surge of women's candidacies were among Democrats but I still nevertheless have already interviewed two Republican women. Melissa M.: They tend to be in their late 30s, early to mid 40s. There are women of color. I've interviewed one already in my sample so far and it is important to me to try to get as many different types of women amongst this group that I get their stories from. I mean I'm looking for where I think the challenge is greatest. So I'm really looking for mothers who have kids that are anywhere from infant stage till around 12, 13 years old. So I have women who've raised as little as $40,000 for their campaign to as much as $8 million. So there's also a range in how viable their candidacies were. The mother who only raised $40,000, I will tell you was the nominee of the Republican party. She did not raise a lot of money. She was running in what we call a blue district and she was very candid about saying that she felt she didn't get a lot of hostile questions about the raising of her kids. She said, "I don't think anyone thought I could win so it wasn't an issue." Melissa M.: I've heard that from a couple of women. At the other end of the spectrum, I have candidates who raised hundreds of thousands, millions of dollars all the way up to around $8 million, women who came very, very close to winning. And so I think so far I've got a good mix. It's not the kind of large end statistical study where I'm trying to get a representative sample but I am purposely trying to get a variety of mothers who come from different backgrounds and experiences and also from different parts of the country. So already I have women candidates from the South, the Northeast, the Midwest, and the West. So it is nationwide. And what I'm finding so far is what appear to be some regional differences and what appear to be some generational differences in terms of whose concerned about their ability to serve as mothers. Jolie S.: On that question of the generational differences, I mean one of the things that seems really striking about the 2018 midterms and what's been happening since then, is that a wave of younger candidates won and so the face of the woman in politics has now a generation younger than maybe what most voters were thinking of. And do you have a sense either through your teaching or through some of your other outreach activities of what effect that is having on young voters? Maybe folks who this is their first time able to vote that they're in their late teens or early 20s. Melissa M.: So in 2018 there was a surge of women candidates who ran and a lot of them were younger. This was a huge exception to the rule. So what we know from the gender and politics literature is that women tend to wait longer to launch their first campaign. Why? Precisely because they're having families. They're having their kids and it's not until the kids are raised, grown up, much older that they start to entertain the idea of running for elective office. Men don't do it that way. So there are plenty of examples for generations of men with young little children, babies who nevertheless run for public office and get elected. Melissa M.: So the fact that sort of the face of people running changed is part because of gender, part because of age and at the intersection of that is motherhood. So suddenly you have women who were socialized. If they're in their 30s and 40s I mean, these are women who were raised at a time their mothers were working perhaps full time. Also, perhaps involved in civic activities and other things so they are noticing. And I think the 2016 election, particularly for the democratic women that I've interviewed, it was an eyeopener. Melissa M.: And one of the things I ask every one of my interviewees, and in part it's sort of an icebreaker to start the interview at the general level, what motivated you to run? A lot of these women, particularly the Democrats, it was the 2016 election. It was the big disappointment they felt and it was the sense that I need to do something. They were so disappointed and concerned about the outcome of the election. They felt I need to do something and what will I tell my kids when they're older if I didn't step up. So motherhood I'm learning is really an impetus for a number of these women. It's because I'm a mother that I felt I needed to do something to better my country. Going back to your question, I think I've gone astray Jolie, so remind me if I haven't. Jolie S.: How do you see young people today who are in their late teens or early 20s sort of responding to that 2018 surge? Melissa M.: First of all, I think young people are beginning to much more readily envision politics as an important sphere in which they can be involved almost without question. The women that I've interviewed, those who were able, who ran campaigns that were quite competitive, they raised hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars. They had staff. Well guess what? Political staff, whether you're male or female running your campaign tends to be staffed by younger people. I'll never forget what one of these democratic women told me. She was a mother candidate and I ask as I do each of them, did you decide to sort of broadcast that you were a mother? Did you decide to showcase that in your advertising, on your website, in your speeches and so forth? And this particular mother had. She ran, as several of them had as a "working mom." Working mom is the phrase that's in the advertising at the website and so forth. Melissa M.: And I said, "What did your staff think about that?" And she just laughed. She said, "I'm not sure I quite understand why." She said, "Because I've got all these 20 something millennials, they're single, they don't have kids. They totally wanted me to run as a mom." she said. So they felt that broadcasting their motherhood softened them a little bit. Look, I'm a mom. Look at my happy family. I think they found it helpful and certainly their millennials staffers encouraged them to broadcast their motherhood. Jolie S.: Part of this research study involved you being on the trail and sort of having close interaction with some of the campaigns. So can you talk about sort of what that experience was like and how that has shaped this research maybe differently than some of those more macro level studies you've done in the past? Melissa M.: Absolutely. So I ended up only doing one campaign observation. It was phenomenal. It was fascinating. In brief, I was embedded for three days on a campaign, a congressional campaign on the West coast. I was with the candidate. This candidate had raised several hundred thousand dollars at that point, went on to raise several hundred thousand dollars more and I had set up the observation weeks ahead. It involved airfare of course so you do this kind of thing. And listeners, maybe as dismayed as I was when I arrived, the campaign was out of the home at that point and that's common by the way. In the interviews I've done subsequently, that's very common that the campaign is the office is at home. I arrived at the door on the appointed morning. The candidate was very gracious and meeting me at the door, but apologetic. Apologetic because they had canceled all of the scheduled activities, events with voters for the next couple of days. Melissa M.: Why? Because, she was considering dropping out. Why? Because, she was facing intense pressure from the party. She happened to be a Democrat. The party had held its endorsement meeting and she had not gotten the endorsement of the democratic party and she was getting intense pressure to drop out and she apologized. "I know we set this up in advance. I didn't want to cancel. You're not going to get to see me with voters as much." So of course as the scholar, my heart sinks initially. In a way Jolie, how valuable was that for me to be still invited in. I observed, listened in on every meeting with campaign manager, spouse, outside paid consultants over speaker phone. We did go to a couple of meetings with local elected democratic politicians as she was trying to decide whether to stay in or not. Melissa M.: Do you know what's interesting? She is one of two candidates that I have interviewed, and this happened to be an observation for whom her motherhood status as a mother of three young kids was a huge problem. She faced so many thinly veiled critical questions about who will raise your kids and the candidate that the party endorsed was a single woman with no children. Now I know having studied politics for so long that the reason a party chooses to endorse one candidate over the other those reasons are complex. But it is interesting that she told me that her opponent... She was literally being told by Democrats that your opponent, Republican voters, if one of you is going to become the nominee and we're worried if it's you with your little kids, Republican voters will never vote for you because of their traditional values and so forth. Melissa M.: So it's hard to pinpoint exactly how much that entered into the party's endorsement decision. She ended up not being endorsed. It was a grueling scene to watch the decision. She ultimately decided to stay in the race. She ultimately did not win the nomination so she did not go on to the general election. But that campaign observation was absolutely eyeopening for me. First of all, to see what it's like to run a campaign out of a private home when you have three little kids. I'll never forget they had devoted a room on the second floor, obviously a bedroom rather oversized so that was nice, into an office with kind of office Ikea office furniture. But you could hear the comings and goings of the part time nanny that they had. You could hear dad who had fortunately a flexible work schedule changing the diaper, possibly a pull up for those of you who know the difference amongst our listeners, singing old McDonald. Melissa M.: There we are sitting in the war room, not me, I'm just listening, but the candidate's having difficult conversations about whether to stay in the race and all of this is going on. One of the factors that entered in her decision to stay in the race was, I'll stay in, but we have to get an office outside of the home. This is too much conflict to have inside the home. So in addition to the observation, I interviewed her at the end of the observation as sort of a separate matter and I asked her about that. I said, "You mentioned conflict in the home. What do you mean by that?" That could be shouting matches. She said, "No, just people involved on campaigns are type A personalities. It's hard driving. Quick decisions have to be made. We have to hash out strategy. Staffers can disagree over what neighborhood we ought to canvas in and the like." So it was more it was important for her who had three small children under the age of five to get an office and about a week after the observation they did get an office. Jolie S.: Can you elaborate a little bit more on how this research then can be put into the hands of potential candidates and campaign workers to maybe help them think differently about what some of those options are? Melissa M.: Yes. It's a great question because I've always been about doing research that has public implications and trying to get the important findings of this kind of research out to the public. And first I think is just to publicize mothers of young children are now running. They are running. This may be new in many districts in many places but it's happening. It will eventually begin to normalize. The more women with young children run the more it will become normal. So, that's one thing. I'll also say, I alluded to this earlier that the stereotypes about a woman's proper place when her children are young is at home with maybe a regular job but certainly not Congress. What I'm finding in my interviews is that those kinds of stereotypes being raised by voters tend to be projected by older voters so not younger voters. Cultural change is slow unfortunately. We like to speed it along and I think my research can speed it along. Melissa M.: So part of the plan is of course it's not journalism. I mean I'm not on a 24 hour deadline. As I continue to do my interviews and then begin to write and publish in academic outlets, I'm definitely planning to do outreach. There's a group that I have discovered called Vote Mama. This is a fascinating group. It has just been established, I believe early 2019 by a mother of young children who ran in the state of New York. She ran out on Long Island. Her name's Luba Shirley and she actually asked the FEC, the Federal Elections Commission to approve her use of campaign funds to pay for childcare for her children so that she could run. Melissa M.: Nobody had done this before and in fact, when I was observing my candidate on the West coast in that three day embedded experience I had, she lamented that the understanding was the FEC won't allow you to use your campaign donations to pay for childcare, which she thought was outrageous because she said, "Running is a full time job and I had to take a leave of absence from my job." she said, "So that I could run and now I can't possibly run effectively without childcare." And she was advised by her male campaign manager not to make a request to the FEC because if word got out in her district that she was asking the FEC to use the campaign funds, it would come back to bite her. Melissa M.: Little did she know that on the other coast out on Long Island, there was a similar mother in a similar position who for whatever reason did decide to ask the FEC and she got permission. And so I think about a dozen candidates in 2018 both women and men, interestingly enough, using the new FEC ruling began to use their campaign funds to pay for childcare. That is a huge breakthrough. That the woman who filed the case with the FEC and won that case has since founded this Vote Mama organization. It is specifically designed for democratic women mind you, so it's not bi-partisan, but it's to elect democratic women who are mothers of young children up and down the ballot. Melissa M.: She believes this founder of Vote Mama as well as the women I've talked to, they say we need government to represent us. This is true for Democrats and Republicans. Why can't mothers of young children. They have a unique perspective. They should be at the table. It's been absolutely fascinating to hear about their lived experiences and learn from them. And I absolutely hope and plan for my moms on the run study to be educational and informative to campaign professionals, to politicians and party members. I do think 2018 with the record number of women elected, I think that women now have the attention of the parties. So I do think both parties will realize that putting women on the ballot can be a win. Putting women with young children on the ballot can also be a win as we've seen from the 10, 12 women who are mothers of young children who were elected to the US House of Representatives in 2018. Jolie S.: Thanks so much, Melissa. We're going to take a quick break now. Thank you for listening to the BG Ideas podcast. Introduction: If, you are passionate about big ideas consider sponsoring this program. To have your name or organization mentioned here please contact us at ics@bgsu.edu. Jolie S.: Today I'm talking with Dr. Melissa K. Miller about her research on mothers who ran for Congress in the 2018 midterms. We have a student who has a couple of questions. Would you say your name first and then your first question? Christina: Yes. Hello. My name is Christina and I am an MPA student at BGSU. My first question for you, Dr. Miller is, have you talked to the spouses of these women to see how they have supported them? Melissa M.: That is a great question. I talked to the spouse of one woman. The woman that I embedded in her campaign for three days. So I literally met the spouse on day one. I saw the spouse every day. I mentioned earlier in the podcast, this was a campaign where this particular mom candidate was being kind of pushed out. There were activists trying to push her out, so I got to observe the brain trust trying to make a final decision. Was she going to stay in the race or not? Her spouse participated in that. At the end of the observation period, I asked him, having met him, "Can I interview you?" Melissa M.: And he had me do that. He let me do that. I was so pleased. His interview as well was about 60 to 90 minutes long. I did it a few days after returning to campus and his insights were amazing in part because you heard from his perspective what the discussions he had with his wife were like when they were trying to decide how would they make this work. I mean they had real decisions to make about their jobs, their schedules, if either of them could go part time, whether they could afford a nanny and the like. It was because I had the opportunity to talk to him that in every subsequent interview I've done, I am only interviewing the mom candidates, but I always ask, "What is the role of your spouse on this campaign?" And I've seen a real variety of roles, Christina. Everywhere from full blown partner advising me at every turn. Melissa M.: My husband's taken over everything in terms of household and childcare and all that. This by the way, was from a mom who, what she described prior to the campaign was they really had a partnership thing going. It wasn't she was fulfilling a traditional role of doing the majority of housework. They were partnering. And at the other end I had a mom in a very traditional marriage who her husband was very supportive and he would do additional school pickups and that kind of thing but she literally complained to me. Did not do any extra dishes. Didn't do any meal preparation and you could tell, I mean, she told me in a discouraging sort of disappointed tone, she said, "I doubt there are a lot of men out there who are running for Congress who get home at the end of a very busy day to a sink stacked full of dirty dishes and laundry all over the place. Melissa M.: So I found that fascinating because her husband fully supported her running, but she was in a household where she still had to do all of the regular chores, those gendered domestic chores that traditionally women have done. So we saw a real difference. And I do think in every case though, it was a negotiation between mom, candidate and spouse. How were they going to make it work? And several of these women also indicated to me that they perceived at least that dad candidates out there didn't have to have these same kinds of negotiations. So, that's been very illuminating. Speaker 6: How have the narrative surrounding children on the presidential campaign for say, Clinton, Bush and the Obama's compared? Melissa M.: It's a great question because really if we just as individual voters, listeners we think to ourselves, what do we know about campaigns? Well, what your average American knows about campaigns is what they see every four years in the most high profile campaign in the country. So your average voter, that's what they know of campaigns is what they see. And unfortunately, for reasons that I gave at the outset, what they see may discourage women of young children from running. For instance, Sarah Palin and the treatment of her children and how she was really put under the microscope and her parenting was really subjected to just, oh, tons of criticism. And we can debate some of that, the scandals. Some of that press coverage may have been warranted and important. Melissa M.: But what's interesting to me is in that very same election, Barack Obama, just a candidate back then a US Senator from Illinois, had young children. I think they were aged maybe seven and six, six and nine or something along those lines. And because I studied his press coverage alongside Hillary Clinton's, I can tell you there was very little mention of his kids in his press coverage far more for Clinton, way more for Palin. The fact that he had young kids and was running for president was not an issue for him in the way it was for Palin or frankly in the way I've learned it was for women who ran for Congress in 2018 simply because society has different expectations about women's role in the household when there are young children versus men's. Another thing you mentioned the Bushes. I might also bring in President Trump and his young son Barron. Occasionally and fortunately it doesn't happen very often, but occasionally the children of these high profile politicians, elected officials will really be attacked. Melissa M.: I think this happened in a couple isolated cases for the Bush girls when George W. was in the White House. It's happened a few times for Barron, President Trump's son. That's most recent. Also, perhaps most visible because now we're in the Twitterverse so all over social media and one nice thing I see is that there's always a big backlash when the children of a politician get attacked or criticized. Another example that comes to mind toward the end of the Obama administration, his daughters now teenagers appearing at some public events with their father, the way they dressed was criticized. And the good news is, at least in the mainstream media, there's a real backlash where you have reporters saying... Jolie S.: That's off limits. Melissa M.: Absolutely off limits. What worries me though is when there are these high profile examples of presidents' kids who get dragged into the media or made fun of or victimized somehow online. There are mothers out there and fathers as well, I would imagine, who don't want to get into it. They don't want to subject their kids to that kind of scrutiny. So I do hope that the project that moms on the run will at least elevate awareness that women with young children can run. They do run, they are running, they're winning. And again, as I said earlier, women running with small kids for office, whether it's US House of Representatives or lower level office, it's just what women do just like men with young children do. Again, however, cultural change is slow, which is why I think it's an important study. It's an important time to be studying this, to push cultural change along a little bit, I guess would be my broad goal. Jolie S.: Thank you so much for being here with us today. I really enjoyed talking with you about your research. If you're interested in learning more about the issues that Dr. Miller's work raises, you can visit our website at www.bgsu.edu/ics. Our producers for this podcast are Chris Covera and Marco Mendoza. Research support for this podcast was provided by the following, ICS undergraduate interns, Olivia Davis, Melanie Miller, Strati Mustikus and Sarah Schaller.  

If you and your partner are arguing more as you approach your wedding, there’s nothing wrong with you. There's also nothing wrong with asking for support. Landis Bejar shares how Aisle Talk in New York City is making therapy a shame-free option for couples approaching the big day. Music by Terry Hughes Inspired to create something for yourself? Visit https://ever-changing.net/ Links: Aisle Talk: https://www.aisle-talk.com Why Stress When You Can See a Wedding Therapist (NYT): https://www.nytimes.com/2019/12/03/fashion/weddings/why-stress-when-you-can-see-a-wedding-therapist.html Growing in Faith Group to Celebrate B'Not Mitzvah (Augusta Chronicle): https://www.augustachronicle.com/lifestyle/20200214/growing-in-faith-group-to-celebrate-bnot-mitzvah ----------- Full Transcript Bejar: Why do we need this? We're getting married. We're... you know, it's so early for us to be reaching out for ... people think of couples therapy as being the last straw or the rock bottom or something like that Landis Bejar has a job you may not have ever heard of before. She is a wedding therapist. In her room, individuals and couples plan for the big day by setting goals and processing the experience of the transition. Her blog offers tips on wedding therapy themes such as defending something you never meant to defend. Join me for a conversation with Landis Bejar. This is Shame Piñata. I’m Colleen Thomas. Welcome to Shame Piñata, where we talk about creating rites of passage for real-life transitions. Today we're exploring the idea of wedding therapy. Did you know that wedding therapists are a thing? I had no idea until I read an article by Alyson Krueger in the The New York Times called "Why Stress When You Can See a Wedding Therapist." I learned that there are therapists who not only specialize in life transitions but that some specialize in weddings specifically. Landis Bejar is one of those therapists. She's a Licensed Mental Health Counselor and she started her own practice called Aisle Talk two years ago in New York City. In addition to the New York Times, Aisle Talk has been featured in Brides magazine, Business Insider and The Atlantic. Landis is super personable and passionate about her work. She walked me though how Aisle Talk came to be and answered my questions about what makes weddings such a potent time for everyone involved. She is also a big proponent of removing the stigma from therapy. She regularly attends bridal fairs to get her work out into the world, bring it out of the shadows, and make it a shame-free option for couples. She stresses that there's nothing wrong with you if you are your partner are arguing a bit more as you approach the wedding, or if you communication isn't quote-unquote perfect. You're actually doing a monumental thing in rearranging your own life and potentially the lives of your family. Landis shared with me the moment the idea for her practice was born. Bejar: The sort of aha moment came up in the midst of an argument in a bridal dress salon between my mother-in-law and my sister-in-law. My sister-in-law was trying on dresses. My mother-in-law was commenting on how she looked in them. And I was sort of there for moral support. And my mother-in-law said something that did not sit well with my sister in law about how a certain dress fit and that sparked an argument between the two of them. So I sort of as the, you know, off duty therapist in the room said something to sort of smooth things over and kind of join them together and let each, essentially let each of them feel heard, which is a lot of what we do and family therapy, and kind of realized that, you know, this was not intended to be hurtful It was not intended to, you know, be taken in the way that it was and sort of got everyone on the same page. And in the wake of that, my mother-in-law sort of jokingly commented, "Good thing that we brought the therapist along. How come you're not a bridal therapist?" Which I thought at first was very funny. And a lot of people have made comments like that to me over my career, with a different specialties, whatever it was I was doing at the time, whether it was I was, you know, holding a baby or playing with an animal or something like that. "You should be a baby therapist...You should be a dog therapist." different things of that nature. But there was something about this comment where I sort of did have one of those aha moments. And I said, wait a second, does that exist? Because I've been a bride before and I know that there's lots of psychological and dynamic pieces that are involved in planning a wedding and thinking about getting married and there should be bridal therapists. So that was kind of moment where I started thinking about this as an actual business and some work that I could be good at. Thomas: Why is it that the deep-rooted family problems can come out of the woodwork at weddings? Bejar: First of all, like weddings are not new, even though the way in which we might experience them feels like it's ever changing and ever evolving. It's a really long standing tradition. And so I think that with that comes lots of ways to interpret that tradition and that can be just very different in one family to another. It can be really different from one individual to another and it can be really, really different from one couple as compared to each of their family of origin. So we have this thing that like has been around for so long, but everybody interprets it differently. And so I think that that's one set of circumstances that sort of informs, you know, how that can cause some some family issues to arise along that, along that plain, you know, weddings are also culturally informed. So there's cultural expectations, there's generational expectations about how this milestone is recognized. And it's a milestone not only for an individual person, and not only for a couple, but many view it as a milestone for our family. So I'm kind of, you know, those I feel like those two things are like a venn diagram where there's separate things and then overlapping things. And then on top of that, it's a marker of time. You know, and with any sort of marker of time or what I call in my work, life transition, all kinds of stress comes up because as we mark time, and as we move from one life state to another through a life transition, we ostensibly are grieving the previous state in order to make space for the new state. And that can be challenging both for the person who's moving through it and the people surrounding that person. So if we remove ourselves from the wedding example, we have like a mom sending her five year old to kindergarten, a mom might cry. And it's not because she doesn't she's not happy that her child is ready for the next step in their life that she might be grieving those toddler years or those years where she spent more time with the child and now is kind of watching them gain their independence and moving into this next state. And same reason why we cry at graduations, you know, and you know all of those things, so that comes up during weddings as well. And the other thing that I would say is that like, there's a lot of pressure for this to be the happiest day of your life. And so when you have all of these other sort of variables coming up that would naturally challenge our emotions and psychological states and family dynamics, the first sign of distress feels really upsetting and maybe extra upsetting because of the pressure that we're all supposed to be so happy. And I think that that kind of creates a little bit of a pressure cooker for some of these things to come out in really aggressive ways that we're not expecting. Thomas: You had spoken before about the taboo of therapy. It sounds like you, you address that in your work. Bejar: I do try to address that in my work first by acknowledging how hard it might be for somebody to reach out to me. And also to make my practice one that is trying to sort of in its presentation and where we show up, whether it's a bridal show or a workshop or you know something like that, but just in by by showing up and not being sort of in the dark corners of the internet, we're modeling that it's okay to seek out therapy. It's okay to seek out therapy during this time, and things like that. Thomas: That's wonderful. And specifically, how does that taboo relate to folks are planning to get married? Bejar: Yeah, I think that I think it's like that image of like, if somebody is sort of operating either consciously or unconsciously from this place that there is a taboo around therapy, then people might relate to either themselves, or maybe the perception of others that if you're going to therapy, you have hit rock bottom or things are really dire or things are really terrible. So, if one or more of the partners is operating under that assumption or they feel like people around them are operating under that assumption, that can be really disheartening to think that you've hit rock bottom when you're just about to get married, which is certainly not true, not true most of the time, of course, could be true, I'm sure in many cases, but it's not a requisite to seeking out therapy. Thomas: Are you putting that message out there to help combat the taboo of therapy around the couples that are getting married in some way? Bejar: Yeah, I think that in a like you know wider brushstroke when we're talking to like more people like then we're doing it sort of inherently in our actions rather than our words, right? So like showing up at an expo and being like, you know, at a table in between your, you know, the personal trainers and the bridesmaids dresses and the make up artist, is like your wedding therapist. I think that showing up in that way is our sort of like walking the walk rather than talking the talk is like we don't feel ashamed about it. We want to tell you what we're here for. We want to tell you the things that are very common to experience during your wedding planning and if that relates to you, come on over like we are here to support you during this process. And I think that is sort of like our, our walking the walk of de-stigmatizing therapy to not sort of be in the closets and in the shadows and be very present amongst the people the other people who help you with your wedding planners or your you know, all the things that you do as you're preparing to get to get married. And then maybe more on a micro level is when we're working with people, that's the first thing that we're addressing. We're saying, you know, it's really hard, you know, we're seeing how hard it is in the midst of whether it's our own personal stigma that we carry, or just societal societal stigma, we're acknowledging how powerful it is that they're seeking, seeking support in spite of that and normalizing for so many people that this is so common, and it happens so often, and there's nothing wrong with you. There's nothing pathological about you because you're arguing a little bit more during this time or you're having difficulty with communication. You're collaborating on a big event together, not just the two of you but also incorporating the needs and wishes of your two families and trying to strike a balance between that. And you're on the precipice of committing to a life together and there's a lot of pressure in that. You know, and you're mourning, maybe a loss of your singlehood, which nobody wants to talk about. So we're really doing a lot to sort of normalize that experience and the stress that inherently comes with that. Thomas: What is the experience like for you, when you're at the bridal fairs? How to couples relate to you? Bejar: It's interesting, I think that like I do notice a difference between... like kind of across generations. So I noticed that some of the moms in the group or some of the maybe older generations will have, will have like, definitely some humorous reactions. I've definitely had like some older folks come by and just say, you know, kind of like laugh or giggle or say, "Oh my gosh, I can't believe... They think of everything lately!" Which is totally true and I totally I acknowledge that but I also think that in that is maybe layered with some discomfort perhaps with the idea of seeking therapy for all of these different reasons. But by and large, the reaction is, "Oh my god that is so needed. What a great business!" A lot of times we have people who are stopping by who maybe are accompanying a bride and they say, "Oh my gosh, what I would have given for this during my wedding planning!" or "My family needed this so much," or reactions like that. And then the other reactions are from the other vendors who have probably subbed in as surrogate therapists or just support people as they've been closer to the stress up until this point and wedding history and have taken on the brunt of, you know, family feuds or emotional breakdowns or things like that. And they're oftentimes the most supportive of this mission because that's not what they are contracted to do necessarily, or what they feel comfortable with, or what they're trained for any of those things. Right. So how cool would it be to actually have a trained therapist on staff, if you will, to help you navigate the stresses of the ceremony - not only your stresses, but those that might be coming up from the folks around you? I'm hoping this wedding therapy idea is one that catches on. May we all have all the support and witnessing we need as we go through our life transitions. Thomas: So on the show, we talk a lot about life transitions, and we've been focused on creating rites of passage for those as, as we feel called to do that, whatever we feel that urgency when something is really intense, and we, we really want to honor a transition with ceremony. And we also talk about rites of passage that we had, that we had in our life or that we wished we'd had in our life. And so I'm curious if there are any transitions in your life that you wish you could have had a rite of passage for. Bejar: Yeah, I don't know if I've ever really like articulated this. But when I was in like, middle school time, so like seventh eighth grade, I had a lot of friends who were having Bar and Bat Mitzvahs. And I think, for me as someone who has one Jewish parent but wasn't raised with any sort of formal religion in my family growing up, it was a time where I sort of long to be part of something a little bit more structured and I saw my friends kind of going through that rite of passage and all that comes with it. It's not just a day but it's, you know, years of practice and study and understanding and sacrifice in terms of like, the time and the energy and when you're, you know, a really young person, and you're often working on like a special philanthropic project, you're learning a new language, you're sort of performing that new language in front of other people, you're interpreting it, you're doing a lot of things that probably at the time I was like, interested in certain aspects, but as I've gotten older, I'm think it's really interesting, sort of rite of passage for a very young person and like, tasked with a lot of responsibility. Then I guess 10-15 years later, I was, you know, thinking about getting married to my partner and my person who I found and I was marrying somebody who is Jewish and who longed for a partner who was Jewish and might have converted or being if they weren't already either converted, or in my case sort of affirm their Jewish identity and gone through a process of like, doing that so that we could, you know, raise a Jewish family and things that I probably wasn't able to do without having the Jewish upbringing and just having my one Jewish parent. So, I think that, you know, that was a very special time for me going through that process before getting married. And they think that it's really interesting that as you asked me this question, the rite of passage of the Bar or Bat Mitzvah that I am immediately think of feels very, feels like it fits really well because ultimately, like I did sort of go through this conversion or affirmation of my Jewish identity that has been very important to me. And I feel like as a part of that work that I did when I was an adult, I reflected on many moments in my life where I longed for like being more a part of that community and I feel like as a part of getting married, I got to do that in a more formal way that I had longed for as an individual and then kind of gone through a process in my, you know, planning to get married. Thomas: So you went through the Bat Mitzvah process, but when you were older? Bejar: It was a conversion process. It was different than the Bat Mitzvah, but it feels like it feels very relevant that I guess that was something that I longed for, and later sort of affirmed my Jewish identity in a different way and sort of this adult way, which you can have a Bar or Bat Mitzvah at any age, and it's something that I kind of think about but it is actually quite more involved than the conversion - which is are already very involved, it's like a year long process - but the Bat Mitzvah... which is like amazing, because this is something that I try to wrap my mind around doing now and and like, you know, 12 and 13 year-olds are doing it at that age and I feel even more impressed by it now as an adult. But yeah, it’s still something I think about doing today but haven't. But I feel like it just fits in with the sort of this path that I sort of took on a little bit later in life. Thomas: There was actually an article in the Austin Chronicle this week about women in the fullness of their womanhood, no longer, you know, pre-teens and teenagers who are going through kind of a Bat Mitzvah experience. They call it a B'Not Mitzvah. Bejar: Oh, that’s cute! That's so cute. Well, when I was doing my conversion classes, there was actually a class there was simultaneously going on in the synagogue which was women who were, you know, fully in their womanhood, not teenagers or pre-teens, and they were all doing a Bat Mitzvah class together. And so I was in my class over here which was different, but I would sort of look over and say that would be something that I do you later on down the road. Thomas: Yeah well, thank you so much for this conversation it’s been so inspiring to talk with you today. Bejar: Thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to talk about these things. I feel like things are all things that I love to talk about and I love to reflect on and are so important to me. And I love the kind of context of really focusing in on the transition of the ritual and how that is impacted by all things that, you know, my specific work is impacted by in terms of stigma and pressure and all of those things, so I really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you. Landis Bejar is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in private practice in New York City. Her practice is called Aisle Talk. Aisle talk focuses on helping individuals and couples cope through the stresses of planning a wedding and getting married through therapy and counseling. Learn more at https://www.aisle-talk.com. That's aisle DASH talk.com. Our music is by Terry Hughes. If you like the show, we'd love it if you'd share it with a friend. Learn more at shamepinata.com. I’m Colleen Thomas. Thanks for listening.

127: Interview with Dr Larry Little Josh: So, I've got a special guest with us today, which is Dr. Larry Little. Now, Dr. Larry Little is somebody who's been very, very fun part of my life and has influenced millions of people through his book Make a Difference. Now Make a Difference is all about doing just that, making a difference. And I'd like to introduce you now, Dr. Larry Little, why'd you want to make this book? Learn more about how to make a difference at dorksdelivered.com.au Dr. Larry Little Well, Josh, thank you first of all For allowing me to be with you and just to hang out and to talk. I'm so proud of you and you're such an incredible leader, and example of what that make a difference the whole concept is about. And you're a wonderful example of why I wrote the book. Because I understood that people they may be brilliant and certainly can do things from a skill standpoint, can do things from a technical standpoint that were... and they were very gifted in that area. But what happened was I had entrepreneurs and owners and people that were leaders would come to me and they would say, "You know, Larry, I had this wonderful, for instance, engineer and she was brilliant. So we promoted her and she failed miserably. We promoted her, she had a team of people around her. She had no clue how to lead a team. She frustrated the team. She was frustrated. She ended up leaving. So we lost a great engineer, not to mention we still have a need for this leader in this area." I got to thinking about that, Josh and I saw a gap and how we literally talk, communicate, engage others. And I thought we're going at this kind of in an ineffective way. So, the Make a Difference concepts began to emerge around understanding who you are but not so you can just understand who you are, but let's understand who you are so that I can then understand who others, who they are and so that I can get to where they are and speak their language. And that's the real secret if you were to take... So if you take the whole book, in a nutshell it's understand who you are, but understand how to speak the language of others. The results have been really, really exciting as I've seen relationships grow personally in business, professionally simply because people begin to understand how to connect, engage, and really speak the language of those within their circle of influence. Josh: I completely agree. And one of the things that I definitely found from the book that I got now, I was fortunate enough to have started reading the book a number of ago when you did a bit of a tour around Australia and I met you in person, which was... didn't realise I guess the golden nugget, the opportunity that had landed in my lap in meeting you and how it was the change and pivot the direction of my life and the influence that it gave to me. So one of the things that I've found is it's not just about business, and it's definitely about relationships and communication and the way that you're talking with people and understanding what's their carrot for some people, and what is the driving motivators? why do people act the way they do? I know myself, and if it's not overly obvious, I'm definitely a quite a monkey. And the the interesting thing, actually, I'll give you a bit of background on the book. So you've got different characters that you all relate to, and there's different of profiling that you can do. But this is really easy to see and understand what type of person that you are and the type of... and how you discuss different things with different people. And how you've received the information from different people. And there's different books that I've read over the years and other ones on the five love languages, which I'm very familiar with. A different type of concept, but still resonates strongly with me. And being able to understand that when I'm talking with a line and they told me something very directly, and it was impacting me emotionally from them telling me what they've told me and it was... And they've told me and then it's been shifted on, it's out of their mind. And someone might say, "Josh, you look stupid in that shirt. What are you wearing that shirt for?" And all of a sudden that's in my head every time I see them for the next three years, they think I look stupid. And whether or not it was just something silly that I did or some off the cuff comment. And in my mind they were thinking about that as well the whole time, and I was thinking about it. It had entered their mind and let their mind and that was it for them. Dr. Larry Little Great. Josh: So, it's interesting just to understand how people think about you and how you should start thinking about others. And I'd say comfortably it's affected in positive ways, all areas of my life. My communication with family, friends, business associates, anyone and everyone. The way that I present myself on stage, the whole lot has changed because you can more easily gauge the feedback of the people that you're discussing or conversing with and work your way from there. It's a valuable read. So what would you say is where are you going from here? Dr. Larry Little Well, first of all, Josh, once again, congratulations, you get it. That's exactly the purpose of the book. And books like The Five Love Languages the Make a Difference these books all have one thing in common. And that is, it's about servant leadership. It's about understanding how to get to where someone else is instead of them to get to where you are. And that means you've learned to put your sensors in when you're around lions and not be offended with their direct language. You've learned to when you're presenting, to understand who your audience is and present in that format. And all of those things are... those are concepts, principles that really are undergirded by that servant leadership model. And the servant leadership model is just, let's understand and look at leadership from a service mentality instead of a dictatorial, narcissistic mentality. Josh: Yes. Dr. Larry Little Which it really is about serving others. And that's the premise of the book. The book, there are two myths that we really have to debunk. And the first myth is that we believe everybody shares our value view. In other words, we believe that what we think is important, everybody else thinks is important in terms of emotional connection and those kinds of things. That's not true. Everybody has their own value view. The second myth is that we believe everybody views us the same way we view ourselves. That's not true. We had this narrative that we tell ourselves, and this is how, based on our personality, based on who we are that is the narrative that drives our behaviour many times. But when we become self aware and we say, "Wait a minute. You know what, that narrative is not true for her or for him," then it changes the way we connect with others. And it's that understanding that drives us to serve others. And really the crucible of leadership is your purpose. Why are you leading? Why are you doing what you do, Josh? And the answer is because... for me it's because I want to make a difference in the lives of others. I want to make a difference in their life. I want to be able to speak into that. So this is a vehicle, this Make a Difference book is a vehicle for that. And that book it's been around and it's been around the world and we've been just very excited and very humbled by seeing the difference that it's made in relationships. Because Josh, if you in this interview you had said, "Hey Larry, this book it's really good. It's helped me to be a better leader. Boy it's helped me to be really much better president, CEO of my company, entrepreneur. Boy I could really lead my people in my company now." I would really be disappointed in you and I would say, "I'm so sorry. I was disappointed in myself because we didn't achieve what I wanted for you." But if you said what you said a minute ago, that, "Hey, this has helped me personally. This book has helped me in my personal life with those relationships that are so important to me. And oh by the way, I use the concepts in my professional world as well because it spills over." Then we celebrate. Then we say, "Hey, that is awesome. I'm so excited. I'm so proud and I'm so glad that you were able to use a bit of this to speak into the lives of others." So what's next? And it's really cool to watch it. The organisation that I work with, it's called Legal Centre for Leadership and we are taking these Make a Difference concepts and we continue to coach around them. With the executive and leadership coaching. We also have make a different seminars. We have a series of those that from accountability to engaging the disconnect, those kinds of things that our trained facilitators do a tremendous job. Very excited about our products and tools that we offer to support that and assessments. And really excited to roll out in 2020 what we are calling Eagle University. And Josh, we are taking those concepts and we are building a university online where you can go and get certified as an Eagle leader by walking through these, make a difference courses and other courses and that kind of thing. We are, our team is, they're going at it. They're excited about it, and we're focused on it. And I'm so grateful they let me hang out with them. It's exciting times around Eagle leadership. Josh: That's cool. So for the people that are in the land down under, a lot of the time that we find I guess we were only a very small, I guess we're a small continent full of widespread people. Is that someone that you'll be touring around Australia with or is that something we could say and definitely jump into online for some of the online university type media? Dr. Larry Little Oh yeah, the answer's yes and yes. Definitely you can jump online. Definitely you can participate in the Eagle university in the coaching, the seminars. With that I was just over in... well I would say your neighbour, maybe, we were in New Zealand. Josh: East Australia as I call it. Dr. Larry Little Yeah, the East Australians. Yes. So we were in New Zealand and we were able to roll out some of these concepts and yes, we'll be back in Australia. We'll look forward to that. But a lot of our work from a coaching standpoint can be done virtually now. We coach leaders literally across the globe. And so to answer your question, absolutely, we can do it virtually or in person or online. So that's exciting. Josh: That's cool. Yeah. Well, it's definitely as I said, it's impacted my life and it's been something strong enough that my position has evolved as it does over the years. Over the 12 years I've been in business, I've gone from being the guy in the trenches and talking with customers all the time, to being the guy that goes out and builds a team. And then from the team now I've started influencing and leading other business owners, which is something I'm very, very dear about and interested in doing. Because it's helping not just grow my business and the way that on own my mindset, it's helping grow theirs and hopefully accelerating their growth. Instead of taking 12 years to gain the knowledge that I've gained, helping them get it in a fast paced way that allows for them to apply that to their business, grow their business. And have the maturity that they can have, hopefully sooner. One of the actual great bits of feedback that I got and only a couple of weeks ago I had someone call me up, and I'm sure he would've called you up if you had your number. But he called me up and he said, "Joshua, I can't tell you how happy I am that you book Make a Difference on to me and how much it's changed my life." He's only halfway through the book at the moment. And him and his partner, they both work together in a local plumbing business. And he took his car to the mechanic and so the mechanic he's been taking his car to for years, and he he left. And he noticed that there was something wrong in the brakes and he thought, okay I'll bring it back to him and I'll just let him know there's something wrong with the brakes. And he thought, I'll talk to him as he would because they're on a friendship basis, the working friend relationship. Dr. Larry Little Right. Josh: He said, "Oh, I know you came in and you discussed... you had my car serviced, but I've noticed that the brake pads don't seem quite right. I've had a bit of a check over some pretty technical mind and I've noticed there's only a couple millimetres left. And I know I didn't bring it in to build the brake pads, but whats to go with that?" Now the mechanic went into an attack position, got rather upset with him. And Dan, the person who took the car to the mechanic was able to diffuse the situation by not retaliating and showing his teeth, and instead understanding where he was coming from and making sure to calm down the situation. Now the relationship with the mechanic might not continue on a whole bunch because it's... he felt very, I guess... you don't feel comfortable when someone does something like that. Josh: But it showed him this mechanic that's been a local mechanic for 20, 25 years around the area, what he could gain from the learnings or from the teachings that you have. And how impactful it's been for somebody who's only halfway through your book. And I can only imagine what value they would be getting out of any of the courses and through your seminars. Dr. Larry Little Well, you know I'm really glad to hear that. It is fulfilling and I just love to hear when someone says, this is helping me in my personal life. That was the purpose of the book. And that Dan had the competency to absorb and then to put into practise how to have those hard conversations. Realise that situation, how to have a hard conversation is certainly very, very important part of the things that we talk about in the book and in our seminars. So it speaks well of your friend. And like you said that professional relationship may change and look different and not be salvaged. But the fact that he did not allow himself to engage in that personal conflict, but yet he had healthy conflict and had a hard conversation, it says a lot about him. Josh: Absolutely. And there's a book that I've read by called [Flawsome 00:15:14] and it's about embracing your flaws. Now these aren't necessarily personal flaws, but about embracing flaws that you might have had because you dropped the ball, you stuffed up. Now everyone does it. Everyone has a bad day. Everyone has an off day. And when you dropped this ball, Flawsome is all about making sure that you embrace the flaw and then overcome it. What I love about Make a Difference is it's about making sure you're understanding it from the other person's perspective so that once you aren't... you have a lot of empathy towards the situation and you're not going in with the Lion heart outset or the monkey outset or the camel outset. And I think that's such really important to do. Dr. Larry Little Well, I think that you're very wise and that is a skill and you're 100% right. You've got to be willing to fail. You've got to be willing to say, it's not about getting it right every time, Joshua. Right? It's about saying, "I'm going to try to get in those other quadrants." And when I say other quadrants, I'm talking about where are the other personalities live? And the book breaks that down. So, that takes practise just like anything else. It takes discipline, rigour and rhythm. And if we have those things and we say, "I'm going to have the discipline." Yeah. Josh, just a quick... we'll chase a quick rabbit is, one of the things I've never understood this when we start teaching and talking about this, sometimes some of those lions or camels will say, "These are soft skills. You're just teaching soft skills." And the truth is no, there's nothing soft about it. This is hard. These are hard skills. If they were so often easy, then everybody would be doing it and relationships would be flourishing everywhere and we would never have problems. Right? This takes practise and it takes it... Good news. It is something you can choose to learn and choose to grow in. Right? But it takes practise and being willing to say, "Hey Josh, I blew that. I tried that. I'm sorry. Let me back up and try something. Yeah, Josh, I thought you were lion. I was a bit direct there. Let me back up." Because you're really a monkey and I got to tell you how good looking that shirt is and how I really like it. Josh: Exactly, exactly. And it's about understanding someone else, understanding how your team's working. And I also find, and I've done a couple of YouTube videos and this one's called the Mirror Mindset. It's about understanding yourself and about also knowing a situation where you need to be present as a different person. So, being a leader is about making sure you understand your team and you have your team all pulling towards... I think the saying goes, all ships rise with high tide. And hopefully I didn't quote that wrong. Josh: The important thing is when I was very introverted at school, and very introverted for the first part of my life. I was overweight. I was picked on to a spot where I wasn't able to walk anymore. Walk any more for a couple of weeks, when I was... Sorry, bashed up would be the more appropriate term rather than picked on, physically picked on. It was a traumatic experience. And when I lost the weight, I lost 38 kilos, I was still the timid person that was still trying to make people feel good, feel happy. And the reason I believe I became a monkey or what was because everyone resonates with the class clown. Everyone resonates with something that can make them laugh. And the universal languages is the smile. And Mr. Bean did it really well as did Charlie Chaplin making everyone smile without even speaking. Dr. Larry Little Right. Josh: Now, now when you read this book and you understand the teachings of Larry, it's fantastic to sort of know, okay, when you jump onto stage, you need to snap out of the mindset that you had and the person that you was, and you then need to become this other person. And one of the things that I found that taught me a lot is people such as [WindoyYankovic 00:19:19] Jim Carrey and a bunch of other people that are very loud extroverted people. But at heart are still very introverted people and they're actors and they're acting extroverted. Now, what I found is I was able to put on different hats, depending on different situations, and more easily resonate and get my message across. If I'm talking with a lion and I know that the information they want is to be direct. They want information, but they're not looking for details, that they're wanting to pieces to get the information... to get everything done. And that also goes for myself when I'm in a situation that I can't be a monkey or I shouldn't be a monkey. Or I need to be aware of all of those traits. It allows for me to be a better person in all situations, even if it's, yeah, I guess in just all situations. So- Dr. Larry Little Well, Josh you know, you're so right. And first let me say to you congratulations for how you walked through trauma because the truth is that was a very traumatic event for you as a young man. Congratulations for losing the weight, I knew that took discipline and nobody understands that work. But I'm really impressed with the fact that you look back at that very difficult, unfair, not okay situation that you found yourself in. And in today's world would call it being bullied, and that's not okay under any circumstance. However, you chose to look at that and instead of remaining the victim, you chose to learn and you chose to grow, and you chose to overcome that and say, "I'm going to... Was that fair? No. Was it okay? No. But neither is life." Life has never fair. Life is not fair. Josh: No. Dr. Larry Little And the only thing we really get to choose is how we handle the struggles. We don't get to choose if we struggle because we all struggle. We all have things. But we do get to choose how we navigate those. And you chose to learn and to grow from a... I hate this really, but the truth is we seem to learn more from the hard experiences in our life. Not that they're okay, but if we choose, we can really learn and grow from those. And you did just that, and boy that's inspirational. Thank you for that. That's choosing to learn and grow and become a better leader and then to go into these concepts instead of becoming bitter, angry, defeated, you said, "No, no, no, I'm going to learn these concepts so that I can invest in others better, so that I can lead through serving them. So that I can understand and be self aware of who I need to be." Josh, that's great work. Congratulations. Josh: Thank you. It's obviously doesn't come with having the right mentality and making sure that you are investing in your personal development. Interestingly, actually that story has a second part where the person... there was these, about three different people that were picking on me out of a school of 1200. It was relatively low numbers, but still life impacting, isn't it? It's not about the percentage, I guess. Dr. Larry Little That's right. Josh: And so one of my first jobs was at subway, subway sandwiches, which we've got everywhere I guess. And I'm there behind the counter as a sandwich artist as it would be, and one of the bullies came in and my heart dropped. And I went, Oh my goodness. And I started freaking out and I thought to myself, no, because... I thought to myself and thought about it from their perspective, and put why are they bullying? What is going on in their life? And I feel whatever's happening in my life could only be... I've got great parents, I've had a great upbringing. I'm fortunate enough to say that I live in one of the best countries in the world, and we... and I thought what has happened in their life for them to be doing what they're doing? And I felt in my mind, it calmed me down. So I thought, okay, they've gone in a direction where they've had to lash out. And I thought they probably don't have the best family and upbringing. And I'd thought of this in my head and as I'm making their sandwich, and obviously everyone has this one thing sitting on this shoulder saying, spit in their sandwich. Dr. Larry Little Right. Josh: No one listens to this one, I hope. I hope not. I still go to subway. Obviously we're not talking about yet. So and he said to me without me saying anything and I was just smiling and being the best person that I could, and making sure that my outlook was not dropped down to any of the previous influence that I'd had from the situation. And he said, "Josh, I'm sorry for picking on you." And he said, "I'm sorry for bullying you at school." And he said that without me putting anything up, and nearly made me cry because I thought, wow, he's also matured in his mindset- Dr. Larry Little Wow. Josh: And that instantly all like... everyone's sort of... always having not miss about it. No, not about that situation, but at school. And when he said that everything sort of just felt like it was just a blanket that disappeared, and it shows the mental games that you make in your mind and how that plays and the impact that has on you, and what someone might say or do to you that changes and pivots the direction of your life. And as I said I'd be lying if I said that... I'm pretty sure when you first gave me the book, it was 2013 I think. Might have been 2012 around then. But it was, I can comfortably say that people come into your lives sometimes for good, sometimes for bad. That bully... And it's all again up to the mindset. That bully came into my life, and at the time I thought it was for bad, but then it's allowed for me to further understand how people think. So in a way it was for good. It was a hard lesson to learn. You came into my life for good. And again, that's a pivot and grown the direction of my life and how I've gone to impact things and people and that has been for good. So, it's all about your mindset, everyone... And this is again in the YouTube video I made the mirror mindset is about. When I started losing weight, I felt still overweight. My eyes saw a fat person in the mirror. And it was only after I then put on a couple more kilos that I then looked at a photo of me when I'd lost as much weight that I look anorexic. And I thought I've gone in the other direction. And so it's about your mindset and making sure that you keep in check and making sure you understand how people are perceiving you, how you're perceiving people. And know that the way that you're seeing you does not necessarily reflect the way that other people are seeing you. And we always, we're our worst critics, I'd agree. We do agree? Dr. Larry Little Yeah. There's no doubt. Well, unless we're narcissistic and then we're delusional. Right? Josh: Yeah. Dr. Larry Little But I think a lot of times that's very true of leaders and people that we are our worst critics. But perception is reality. And so you have to make sure that your perception is rational and it is real. And you had to check that even when the bully was apologising to you. You could have perceived that for him just to try to make up to you or that he had an ulterior motive, or that he wanted to get something for it. But you didn't. You took that at face value. You allowed it to be a source of healing for you. When people come into your life, when we introduced you to the concept that you had a choice to make. You could have perceived that as these are just soft skills and maybe it's good for somebody else, but you don't know what I've been through. You don't know what I've suffered. You don't know... But you didn't do that. You said, "I'm going to take those, I'm going to perceive that as something good and I'm going to use it and I'm going to apply it." And you did that Josh. And your choice, and we can never underestimate the power of choice in our life. We all have choices to make every single day. And you chose to take those concepts, you chose to use those concepts, you chose to apply those concepts. And you know as well as I do, if you were honest that took work. I mean, you've been doing this now since 2013 and you're still applying it and still using it. It's not a onetime and done. It's you've made that a part of your life and that took a lot of hard work. Josh: Right. And it's hard work. Nothing comes easy. Dr. Larry Little That's right. Josh: And a few things my father has taught me, is nothing comes easy and trust everyone until they prove themselves untrustworthy. Dr. Larry Little That's right. Josh: So, walk up to someone with open arms, not, not closed, and feel comfortable with the person that you're approaching until they show themselves to be, not the person that they first appeared to be. And that's a... Another person that's influenced my life. It's you and dad now, so- Dr. Larry Little Love that. Wow. You know, it's so true. And the whole centrepiece around the Make a Difference is that. And that's what we entitled it Make a Difference is that it's outward focused. It's about becoming self aware, yes. But becoming self aware so that we can give to others. Becoming self aware so that we can make a difference in the lives of others. And so you have done that, you've taken that and that's our goal in teaching these concepts. Josh, the truth is there are a lot of personality profiles out there. There are a lot of psychological assessments and they're all good. But seriously, there are a lot of very good psychological assessments that you can take. The problem comes when you take those tools and you get this plethora of data, you get all this stuff right? And they set it, and you try... First, you don't have time to go through it all. Second, you're not really sure what it means. And third, and most importantly, you don't know how the heck you're going to apply that quickly. So, the concepts we developed, the secret is not in a little assessment tool, that's not the the secret. The secret is well, I'll show you. So the secret is this, the secret is white picket fence. Josh: Okay. Dr. Larry Little White picket fence. So right now, Josh, even if you wanted to or not, it doesn't matter. Who you are, you're thinking of a white picket fence. You could say- Josh: I sure am. Dr. Larry Little ... I'm not thinking of one, but you are. And so that's the secret of what we do because neurologically our brains are hardwired to download word pictures very quickly and to process them very quickly. So, we use silly animal names, much love monkey, leading lion, competent camel, a tranquil turtle, so that our leaders are... And by the way, when I say leaders, I'm talking about all of us because we all are leaders. We all lead- Josh: Absolutely. Dr. Larry Little ... at least one person and that's ourselves. We only get to choose if we lead ourselves poorly or wisely. So, we wanted something that leaders could take and download quickly and apply quickly. So, the secret is in making it simple so that it can be practically applied so that then you can begin speaking that lion language to the lions in your life. You can speak the turtle language to the turtles in your life, and learn how in the world do you speak camel language and you speak that into the lives of camels. But the secret to the success of this, I truly believe is as simple as white picket fence. It's the practical application. It's the word pictures that we created because colours and numbers, our brain can't process that quick enough to really use it in the moment. Josh: Having a full letters that come back on a piece of paper without talking about the other tests. Obviously you can't really describe that or relate that to someone. But when you ask a five-year-old, "What does a monkey do, and how does a monkey look? How does a monkey react to a situation? And how does a lion look and what does a lion do and how does a lion react to a situation?" And anything that's worth teaching and worth learning should be able to be understood by a 12 year old. And I could comfortably say that being that we're related to animals, everyone knows animals, everyone loves animals. Everyone can see and see how they work together and how they can work better together. So, it's very, very smart the way that you did it. And as you said, situationally you can look and go, "Okay fine. They're that sort of person, they're that sort of person." And we've got a job network in Australia called Seek, which is you put an ad up on there to find a new employee. And we were using the make a difference test to sort of work out how they would fit into our organisation and how that would fit with us and the rest of our team. Dr. Larry Little Love it. Josh: And right from the word go we knew how we would be relating to them. And it's important too, what you pointed out earlier about engineers. And engineers may be being put into a managerial role does not necessarily mean that they should be managers. And it doesn't necessarily mean like a pay rise and a responsibility rise may not be what they're looking for. It may not be their carrot, and it may not be something they're looking for in their skillset. But if it is, it's definitely make a difference as a way that they can make it work with that position to make a difference, to there, present in the moment around that new position. Dr. Larry Little You're so right. Hey Josh, so I have a little secret and if you want me to, I'll let you in on it. You'd ask earlier what do you have? What's next? You want me to share it with you? I'm going to tell you just a little snippet about what's happening next. Josh: Yes, please. That'd be wonderful. Dr. Larry Little So, we're very excited that we knew the Make a Difference book, we felt like it had the concepts and we're so thrilled that it has helped people on an international level. That's awesome. But I knew there was something else and I knew there was, and the series is wonderful. We're glad to do that. We're so glad that, so cool what would people do that? But I knew there was something else. So, for over a year I've been piloting ideas and thinking about ideas and teaching and doing some work. And just last weekend I finished, I went in to an intensive, what I call an intensive, and I wrote a book that I believe is the sequel to the Make a Difference book. The working title of the book is called Lead to Make a Difference Above and Below the Line. Josh: Okay. Dr. Larry Little It's a different concept, but here's a snippet just to kind of give you an idea of where I'm coming from. You have to read the book to find out what above and below the line is all about. But it builds on, if you think about the DNA diagram, in the Make a Difference, it'll give you a hint. But the concepts are more around this. We talk about teams and that kind of thing and why they underperform or why there's toxicity in the team, or toxicity in a relationship. And the book centres not only on professional, but we talk a lot about personal relationships. And I think there's a monster. I think the monster attacks our relationships and attacks our teams. This monster is, I believe the reason that companies go under, that company's struggle, that relationships are destroyed. And the monster is fear, and the fear of failure, fear of being misrepresented, fear of being misunderstood. We could go on and on and I think the antidote to that fear is trust. But not in the traditional context of trust. We always talk about trust in terms of trust in a team or building trust in your relationship or building trust to be a strong... to trust each other to... Here's the problem with that. There's a huge disconnect there. Gap, if you will, and this is it. I don't think we can truly develop trust in someone else until we understand how to develop trust in ourselves. And I think self trust is something that people don't want to think about, but how in the world can I ask you to join me in a trusting relationship if I don't trust myself? Josh: Yeah. Dr. Larry Little: How can I build trust on a team if I don't trust my reaction? Josh: Got it. Yeah. Yeah. Dr. Larry Little: Yeah. So that, the book Lead to Make a Difference Above and Below the Line talks about how to gain that self trust. There an assessment tool in there about it. So, I'm very excited about it. I think it's going to... Boy, I hope that it helps a lot of folks. It was difficult to write because it kind of went down a different direction even then when I first started the concepts way back. Because I've talked and listened, and learned and I've tried to learn from others. But I think the end result is going to be pretty exciting. Josh: Well, I'm definitely pumped. I've loved your first book and I'm very interested to read the next one. It's something that I think everyone has... As I said, everyone has this demon inside themself. They're self-doubting, and I know I'm going to say I'm the worst for it. The worst for it, I guess. And I know myself, I have a team that look up to me. I have staff members that have left. And I've continued personal relationships with them. I'm still friends with them. And whenever they come to Queensland, they see me. And I sent out a something to one of them recently. And and I said, "Oh look, I'm looking to go this approach." And I said, "I'm worried about some of the directions that, some of the parts of the business are going." And I sort of brought them up to him and he said, "I've worked for five companies since you. You are the most professional company. You offer the best, most outstanding service verse any of them. You should not be worried about anything." And I felt wow, the way he's told me and how he was able to put that data together nearly made me cry to be honest. It was wonderful and I thought, everyone's got this doubt in himself and I can't do this and I won't do this. And I relate it back to the girl at school that you had the crush on, or 2009. The person you had at school, you had a crush on I guess. But the girl at school that you had the crush on, looked across you thought, Oh, I'm going to... At the right moment I'm going to go there and talk to her and I'm going to... Oh, I'm going to ask if I can say hey or hang out with her at lunch or whatever the case was. And then you didn't. And a year goes by, two years goes by and this person is saying, still do it. And you go, "No, I'm not going to do it." And then you... I'm not going to have to hang out with her. She's too pretty. She's too beautiful. And then the last day of school happens and then you finish school and you realise, wait, I'm in the same position now as I was before if I hadn't jumped on that opportunity. And this self doubt can have you lose opportunities and have you fail at I guess the butterfly effect. If you've got a small thing that just saying hello once to someone, reaching out like I did with yourself and saying hey. The smallest thing can build into a big thing for everyone involved, if you've got the... I guess not the guts, but the power within yourself to override those thoughts, feelings, and strive forward. So, I guess it's an important message. Dr. Larry Little: No, it really is. And it's revelation when someone realises that she no longer has to allow feelings to drive her behaviour. He no longer has to allow irrational thoughts, right, to define who he is or who he's not. That there is choice involved and we can learn the discipline of learning to lead through those emotions and making good choices based on that rational thought process. In fact, if you take two leaders and look at two leaders who were put in the exact same scenario of struggle. One may do very poorly that he may become a victim. He may become disassociated, he may become... Another may experience struggle and hardship and pain and so... But at the end he's grown stronger. Josh: Yeah. Dr. Larry Little: What is the difference? And so the book addresses that head on. The difference is this person understood how to lead above and below the line, understood the voices that he or she had before them. And we talk about the importance of having a grit, G-R-I-T and leading. And so I don't want to go into all of that and take out time, But I'm very excited about it. I think it's a good, I really do think it's a good sequel to the first make a difference project. Josh: Cool. And is that going to be available in Australia or online or audio books?> Dr. Larry Little: Yeah, all of the above. Right now, it's just brand new and it's actually at our... we're in the editing process right now, so look forward in the spring of 2020. And it will be, our goal is to have it hard copy, online obviously you can get it on Amazon, those kinds of things. And then also I'm going to push our team so that we can do an audio version. I want to do it... In fact, I want to do that for both of those books and create that audible experience as well. So it was a great question. Josh: Cool. Yeah. Yeah, I think it's, especially I guess for business owners, and I'm going to say I love a physical book. I love feeling a physical book. I love the paper of a physical book and you want to get many technical people saying that. But I'm in front of a computer monitor sometimes eight hours a day, sometimes 18 hours a day. And the thing that I absolutely love is stepping away from that feeling something and you can... I think you can feel more of an emotion in the book. I don't know. It's probably just someone I'm saying. I feel that there's something there that you just can't get off of a screen. And that's where I'm looking forward to getting the physical book and I think that's going to do it for me. But at the same time, business owners are busy people and some people spend half their lives driving around in cars and I'd sincerely suggest not reading a physical book while in a car driving. Right. Dr. Larry Little: Agreed. Agreed. Josh: Yeah. So, it would be good to see it as an audio book. Well, I'm really happy to have been able to speak with you and go through and hear about the new exciting projects that you've got on offer coming through in the future. And also the, some of the ones that you've got on offer now through the university in bits and pieces, and... or soon to be on offer. Is there anything else that you'd like to ask me will go through? Dr. Larry Little: I'll tell you, Josh. It's leaders like you who are truly going to successfully make a difference moving forward because you are, as our friend Brad Scow talks about the entrepreneurial journey. You're in that leadership journey of now mentoring and coaching and just be encouraged that that is a very, very influential and important place to find yourself. So it is my hope. Who knows, Josh? This is what I might ask of you moving forward. Let's have a talk. I mean, we're always looking for coaches, so you never know, and presenters. So we may have to talk offline a bit about what you're doing. But seriously our website is eaglecenterforleadership.com and we'd love to talk with whoever is listening or watching and to be able to speak into your life as a leader, to walk with you to journey with you. That's a call that we have that is bigger than any of us any one person. We have a team of around 60 or so individuals that are all committed to walking with leaders in order to help them to lead differently and help them to influence others just like you Josh. And so it's been just a real honour. Thank you for calling and inviting me to come hang out with you for a while in the land down under. It's been a blast. Josh: Any bloody time. All right. I really appreciate you giving me the opportunity here as well. And as I said, I've looked up to you and your teachings for quite some time and I've carried them through to my life and carried them through in all aspects. And also in the lives of the people that I'm influencing. And it's touching to hear the stories. And I could only imagine the stories that you would have with people that have come to you and how you've helped them out. And there's a few written in the book, but the amount you would have had from the book, I could only imagine, would be a very impressive and very humbling to have all those. We will put a link to your website in the description below as everyone does, or it will be in the article on our website or in the podcast, or whatever the method is that you're listening. There'll be some way to jump on the site and check it out. And yeah, I really look forward to speaking with you again and yeah, going from there. Dr. Larry Little: Thanks my friend. Good day. Josh: Thanks. You too.  

First time author, Martika Whylly shares insights into what motivated her to write her book, how to stay motivated and what to do when you get writer’s block. Her book is a great resource for anyone who wants to further understand the grieving process. Martika believes in the afterlife and being guided by a Higher Power. Having lost her mother at the age of 15, Martika began her journey to more fully understand the process of grieving. Her path took her into a career working in a nursing home, bringing comfort to the residence who were transitioning. Martika shares insights into the stages of grieving, the process of transition and what comes next, based on one’s beliefs. Her book was a happy accident. Having premonitions in her dream of a man dressed in black, she was determined to discover the origin of the vision. She started writing, not realizing she was actually working on a book. Her writing was about the many deaths she had experienced and dealing with grief. Yet, at one point, everything came to a standstill with her writing. Find out how she overcame her own writer’s block through an episode of Oprah Winfrey. On the afterlife “I believe that we're all creators and we're always creating constantly, even when we transition. When we go cross over, if we believe nothing happens after we die, then nothing will happen. I believe that once you cross over, you see that light. Some people are afraid of the light. I don't think they go into the light. And then they become spirits and physical, which we call ghosts and apparitions, which I've seen. But I believe once you see the light, you cross over near it into that light. Because I've experienced that as well. That to me is love in its purest form, whether you want to call it God, the universe or Allah.  To me, it's just pure love. And when you experience that, you'll never fear death, ever.” According to Martika, most people that have experienced the light or had a near-death experience aren't afraid of it. “Now, if we all had that, we would all probably live in a very different world and we'd look very different.”   Twitter.com/MartikaWhylly http://facebook.com/grievewithease  https://www.linkedin.com/in/martika-whylly.  http://wwww.grievewithease.com

Are you a dietetic student currently? Do you see the management and leadership course and cringe? It doesn’t have to be that way and the benefits of the course can be amazing! In today’s episode of Dietitian Boss, I am talking with Megan Kniskern. Megan is the owner of Mak Nutrition LLC and lecturer at Arizona State University. We’re breaking down the importance of learning management and leadership and how social media should be apart of all of it. “Because I've found that a lot of my opportunities in my career, it didn't always come from a traditional job search, right? -Megan Kniskern In today’s episode… How she tries to keep her classes at Arizona State exciting. The growth she has seen in the dietetics area and how knowing entrepreneurship can lead to success. The role she played in getting ASU to add a full course on entrepreneurship. Why she uses podcasts and YouTube to help teach her students. The importance of social media for current and future dietitians.   Guest Resources: Connect with Megan on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter MAK Nutrition   Free Resources from Libby Are you ready to start booking amazing clients (who don’t even flinch at your prices)? Check out my FREE Dietitian Boss Basics Workbook!

This weeks guest is Nick Thiel. Nick spent 20 years working in IT. He had a passion for coaching and trained as a life coach. Nick is also passionate about helping Dads become better versions of themselves for the sake of them and their families.He left corporate world in May 2019 to pursue his passion full time.Links: www.facebook.com/DadUpToday www.facebook.com/groups/extraordinaryDads playbook.daduptoday.comWelcome back to the fuel your legacy podcast. Each week we expose the faulty foundational mindsets of the past and rebuild the newer, stronger foundation essential in creating your meaningful legacy. We've got a lot of work to do. So let's get started. As much as you like this podcast, I'm certain that you're going to love the book that I just released on Amazon if you will, your legacy, the nine pillars to build a meaningful legacy. I wrote this to share with you the experiences that I had while I was identifying my identity, how I began to create my meaningful legacy and how you can create yours. You're going to find this book on kindle amazon and as always on my website, Sam Knickerbocker. comWelcome back to fuel your legacy and another incredible guest from the UK. We're going to shout out to Nick teal. That the cool thing about meeting with people from all over the world is you get to hear different opinions different mindsets and because of different economic situations, there's a lot of things that maybe we haven't thought about because we live in our specific country, that when we start thinking about how is this working in other countries, it gives us ideas of how we can maybe implement some of their strategies that they're using in our country or our culture. So stay tuned for that. We're going to maybe think about what is unique to there, or what is he doing daily that I could be doing on my end of the world as well. So Nick, he spent about 20 years in it, and had a had a full career there, but just has a passion for coaching and helping other people and specifically dad, so he considers himself a coach to dads helping ordinary men become extraordinary dads, and he's on a mission to create a new generation of dads which I love that I coach with a coach. His whole thing is called next-generation next-gen coaching as he focuses on how do you become the next level of a coach? There's a lot of life coaches out there, how do you become the next level? So I love this when you said, helping become the next generation of dads, you know, helping them be a new version, a new better version of dad. So with that being said, Nick, go ahead and introduce your past how you have come to where you're at why you left corporate America and you know, the whole spiel. I'd love to hear all about it.Sure. Great stuff. Thank you very much, Samuel. Good to be on the show with you. So, yeah, let's go back in time. So I ended up working on it. And to be honest, that was an accident. So I went through a typical, typical childhood, went to a good school, went to university got a degree in Business Studies. And even back then, I think I had a sort of entrepreneurial passion inside of me that I didn't want to follow the normal corporate world. I always felt that there was probably more out there for us than just going through and having what is so often described as a good job. You know, many times our parents Get a good education, get a good job and everything will be fine. I didn't think that would be the case. But as it was, I remember back then actually, I, I wanted to own a gym. That was one of my dreams very early on in my life owning a gym, a health club. I was really into that side of life, then I ended up getting involved in a company you may or may not have heard of out there in the States, which was Amway, a large multi-level marketing company. And while that didn't do me any favors in terms of what it gave me financially, what it did do is open me up to the world of self-development of the world of coaching if you like. And part of the journey of that was that we got a lot of books to read, which are all self-help book self-improvement books, and it opened me up to that world out there that said, you can become a much better version of yourself. I was a very shy child lacked a lot of confidence quite insecure and didn't have a lot of people skills. So reading these books, And being around this environment around a lot of confidence successful people started to transform me into someone that develop those traits. And then I thought, wouldn't it be great to teach other people the stuff that I'm learning. But as so often the case, we end up falling into a job after university, and I ended up working in it. And what is so often happens for so many of us is that once we're in a career, it's really hard to get out of a career and change career, because we developed responsibilities. And very early on in my working life, I got together with my first wife, and she already had a son who was seven years old. So I committed within a year or two of leaving university, I had these commitments to look after a family. And therefore I couldn't just turn my back on that and pursue the career I wanted to. So in the back of my mind, I thought, you know, I'd love to be a life coach, but in the front of my mind, I thought I need to keep earning money and provide for my family. And so I ended up Ending, as you said, the best part, I think it was the best part of 20, just over 20 years in it. And through that time, I moved through a variety of roles, ended up making great money, six-figure income. And before I made all that money, so I thought, wouldn't it be amazing to make six figures? I bet if you're in six figures, all your problems go away, you're happy as anything. And when I got there, I realized that actually, you're no happier than when you were earning half of that. Yes, some of your problems have gone away and things were a bit easier. But I remember turning up to work every day thinking I am unfulfilled. I didn't enjoy the work I did. I always knew that that wasn't my passion wasn't my calling. But I didn't know how to just turn my back on that kind of income and pursue what I wanted to do. And so I wrestled with that for several years if I'm perfectly honest, and during that time, I had a five-month career break when I trained, got professionally trained as a life coach. But I ended up back in it because it was the security of what I knew before I had a chance to build my coaching business. And then a couple of years ago, I started thinking, I need to do something within the coaching space. I wanted to help men because I was just passionate about wanting to see men be in a position where they could transform their lives. And then I was getting coaching myself and my coach at the time, we looked at where I'd best be we're best to be able to serve. And we realized that my experience by that point was, I was a dad to three children by then. So I had adopted my ex-wife's first, my ex-wife, son, when we got married, and then we'd had two more children ourselves, then our marriage has broken down, unfortunately. So as a dad, I'd experienced the whole range of going through adoption, becoming an adopted dad, having my children, then getting divorced. My children ended up Moving 200 miles away. So I went through a whole heartache and a process to understand how to best parent from a distance. And so working with my coach, we realized that the best thing I could do is probably to coach dads and help them goes, better equip them for the journey that they might go on. If it was similar to mine.And it was back then I started a page on Facebook for dads. Initially, I thought it would just support single dads. And then I realized all dads go through the same struggles we all have the same issues in life. So I kind of made it more open to all dads. And I knew what I wanted to do. I knew that I wanted to turn it into a full-time business. But it was hard balancing the demands of my career was what would be needed to turn that into a business. So it kind of sat on the back burner for a while just trickling away in the background. And then finally, this year in around March may know or May this year, things were changing. At work, and there's a lot of rules in the UK around how I was a what's called a contract. So I wasn't employed permanently by the company, but I contracted out to companies, and all of the tax rules and everything is changing in this in this country. And so it was obvious that change was coming. There was uncertainty. And I talked it over with my new wife. We've been with two years of marriage now. And we said if you're not going to do it now, when are you going to do it? Because she's been encouraging me. Most of the time we've been married, just don't do what you stopped doing a job you don't enjoy, stop being unfulfilled and start living out your passion. And I'm very lucky that I've got a wife that supports me so much in that respect because that's got to be one of the biggest stumbling blocks. And so in May, I decided that it was time to walk away from that job and go for it full time but becoming a dad coach, which is what I'm now doing.That is incredible. I love it. So You heard or read the book, The Dream giver by Bruce Wilkinson? No, no to that one. Okay, so I would read that. And anybody who's listening to this, go ahead and read that I did a book review on it. That's probably been a few months ago, maybe even shoot probably close to a year ago. It's been a long time but a super good book and I read it regularly. The thing with this at the book and why I like that this book for this analogy is because Bruce Wilkinson can put into kind of a parable about these dreams. And for Nick, you had your dream you had your first calling to a dream or to be a coach in college right? Is that that what I'munderstanding? Yeah, yeah. Back then. Yeah.And he spent another 20 some odd years not doing his dream but the dream kept coming up a piece made some small progress towards Did you take complete when you say you took five years to have it trained as a life coach. Did you take time out of Quit your it job while you what, five months? or five months or five months.Yeah, so I had a contract that ended and I decided right I won't pursue a job, I will pursue what I believe I'm being called to do. And so I kind of reignited during the first couple of weeks of doing that. The whole concept of wanting to become a life coach kind of like came back into me, my conscious because I'd almost I put it to one side so much as I'd forgotten about it. And suddenly they all came back and I thought, yeah, that's what I always wanted to do back then. That's why I should do now and then that's when I sought out the correct training, etc. and got qualified.Yeah, I love that. So the point is, your dreams even though you maybe have said no to your dreams before or in the past, they'll keep coming back up, especially if it's you if it's your purpose, if it's what you're meant to do. Those things are going to keep creeping back up into your life. And at some point, we've got to take, take a second pause, look over and Okay, what is it about that's so important? I think that a lot of people have gotten into some type of multi-level marketing Amway is we were part of my family's part of it when I was younger. And but I think it is there, these multi-level marketing people often will give them a bad name. But the reality is they're one of the big if we're talking about gateway drugs right? They're one of the biggest gateway drugs to personal development, which is awesome. And that's all they serve as an as a purpose is to help people in mass numbers get focused on personally developing themselves and focused on what value are they adding to society, if that's all that they did, and all they accomplished, that's a win. And so many people will sit there and talk about it like it's a negative thing. That's a win if that's all that they accomplish. That's huge to at least accomplish that. So I love that idea. And especially since he was a shy and almost introverted person at the beginning So the best coaches that I know and are all naturally shy and introverted.Yes, how it is. It's weird, isn't it? And I was that I was the guy that if I saw you coming down the road and I knew you I crossed over to avoid having to say hello to you, I was that kind of shy guy.I'm not been that type of shy, but I bet that crazy kind of shy. Yeah, but the point is, though, there's a lot of people who are probably feeling that same way when they go to work. They're avoiding people, they're avoiding eye contact, and they're driving, they're avoiding connection with other drivers. They're so stuck in their little world. And it's not bad necessarily to be stuck in your little world. But there is a lot of people out there that when you're willing to no longer be selfish, right, and choose to be selfless, then you are ending up gaining a connection with other people and it doesn't mean that you have to overwhelm yourself. I'm naturally an introvert as well. If there are too many people around too much going on, I'm like, going to go shut myself in a bedroom. You know, it's over stimulant but it's important to understand and that that's a natural thing. So if you're going through that or somebody who knows going through that, just be with them understand that that's where they're at. But that's incredible what do you feel like making the biggest shift for you to go from that shy introverted person and identity to willing to step out? And I'm not saying that you at your core have changed your desire, but what made you willing to step out of that box and explore new things?You know, I mean, that's a great question. So but I think probably the biggest thing was that I got, I got comfortable with who I was, I got happy with who I was. And that was the biggest breakthrough. So not only was I this shy, insecure guy but back then I was a skinny kid growing up. And then I got into weight training and bodybuilding and that was a bit of an obsession hence wanting to open a gym when I was young. Right. And, and that was me probably putting an outer shell on this Shy Guy interior. And, and then as a result of reading all of these books getting around successful people being built up by people that knew how to build you up as a person, and not just people knocking you down all the time, I started to like you I was I got comfortable with who I was. And I thought This is me. And you'll either like me or you won't like me, but this is me. And I don't need to try and be anyone other than myself. And funnily enough, when that happened, I started not only coming out of my shell and being more willing to talk to people, but I didn't I wasn't so obsessed with my bodybuilding either. Because I no longer had to wear an outer shell to protect me. I was just who I was.So what do you think it is that holds people back from liking themselves to accomplish that?That's a great question. And my wife has just released a course for people on how to like themselves. So you think God knows all the answers to this, but I think a lot of it is just that the programming we get through our childhood. So all the little things that go on as we're growing up, around affecting our self-talk, and affecting the self-beliefs we have. And we're creating all these limiting beliefs, we're creating these lies that we're telling ourselves constantly about who we are. And in this day and age, it's even harder because you've got social media bombarding you with all these images about how you should be, or the only way to look perfect is this or if you're not getting 1000 likes, then obviously, no one likes you. So we're living in this space where we are constantly judging ourselves and comparing ourselves with other people. And that makes it hard to like who we are. And we can just shift away from that and realize that we're not in a comparison world. And if we could see the reality of every person, everyone has their flaws, everyone has their weaknesses. We're all the same. And we've all got the same fears and insecurities and we should just, we should accept that we are how we are we are created in a certain way made in a certain way. And we should be happy with what we are and who we are.Yeah, I agree what what what practices Or habits or mindsets or whatnot? What would you say could help somebody who's stuck in the not liking themselves stage? What is something they could do to kind of work themselves out into ahead? I'm comfortable and I like myself like what is a practice habit, mindset or behavior that they could adopt?Yeah. Okay. So I think I think part of that is your self-talk. So whatever you whatever you're saying to yourself on a daily is what you're going to start believing about yourself. And so, the first thing is to start listening. What am I saying to myself? Am I telling myself negative stories? Are my telling myself positive stories? Am I telling myself beliefs that are pulling me back or am I telling myself beliefs about myself which are drawing me forward? And you know, even if you start that self-talk, and it doesn't convince you at first it will start to reprogram the mind it will start to change what we're doing. And then the other big thing for me is just to be around people and to expose yourself to a situation where you start talking to other people. And you realize that people do like you. And that helps. Not that we should judge ourselves on what other people think. But also realize that people other people's opinion is their opinion. And everyone's got an opinion whether it's a good opinion or bad opinion. But someone's opinion of us doesn't have to become a reality. And I heard that, quote, years ago, and I thought, what a great quote, other people's opinion of you doesn't have to become your reality. So it's all about I mean, there's a lot of big exercises I do when I'm coaching dads on knowing their identity. So looking at who are you knowing your values, so what makes you tick? What things are really valuable to you? What things do you do anything to avoid? And then looking at your beliefs, and what are the beliefs that you've grown up with that may be holding you back from being the real version of you?Yeah, I love that. So just rewind that for the last two or three minutes and start putting just one of those things. I don't care what you put in practice, but choose just one thing to put into practice and start viewing yourself better. Even the people who have the best view of themselves excuse me, in my experience can still level up their belief in themselves. Absolutely. That's just what I've experienced in the past. So one of these things that I have met with a lot of different coaches or and I don't think it's exclusive to coaches, I think this is a principle of passion that I want to touch on here. You've mentioned that you were you're in this career you have responsibilities was hard to leave those responsibilities. And it seemed that there was a binary choice between wanting to life coach wanting to follow your passion k works can call it passion, and needing money.And for some reason,it either in society or just in our own lives. We've come to believe that this is a binary choice that we can only choose one or the other. And that if we choose to go do our own thing, then we're going to struggle financially. And so now there's this fear around going and doing it ourselves. I'm curious, where do you feel like that belief came from inside of you that it was either one or the other?Um, I think it was. Well, it's an interesting one, because actually, I think in this day and age, I question whether that belief still happens, because I think we're being exposed to a new world and a new set of beliefs that says, you can follow your passion and make money. But I think there was a reality check inside of me That said, if I've got this level of responsibility and this amount of money I need every month, how can I suddenly follow my passion and recreate that level of income? Because I didn't feel quite naive enough to think that I could recreate that level of income overnight, contrary to some of the adverts that we get bombarded without there these days. So it was maybe It was a relative, maybe I had my own limiting belief, maybe, you know, none of us are perfect with we are we're talking about all this mindset stuff. But we've still all got additional beliefs that we've got to overcome. And to move into that space where you know, there are people out there doing what you want to do and making the money you need to make. But you sometimes think, Well, how do I make the jump from where I am to get to that point as well?Sure. So So what I don't know. I don't know what the real answer is. I don't know that there is one answer size fits all, you know, but I think for me when I'm working with different clients, one thing that I just invite people that person to think about his perspective. So for me when I shifted my perspective in life, to and this was from a what book was it? by Brian Tracy, I think it's no excuses for the power of self-discipline. Probably one of his best books I love pretty much all about Brian Tracy stuff his style and mine connect. Well, I jive with him a lot. But the question is, or I guess the perspective to have in life, in general, is every day in life, I if I consider myself a company, every day in the life, I am either adding value to my stock or devalued devaluating my stock. And when you start thinking of your life as a stock, or as its own company, you're the CEO of your own life and your own company, then it doesn't matter whether you're an entrepreneur or working for somebody else, okay, I'm putting working for somebody else in quotations. Because at that point, when I go into a job interview, I'm no longer waiting for somebody else to assign my value. I'm walking in saying, look, this is the value I'm offering. This is what my stock is worth. Now, are you willing to pay me what what myself stock is worth whether that's an employer, or, as in singular, you're working for a corporation or an individual or you're working for many individuals as a, as an entrepreneur, you have lots of different people that you're selling your stock to, versus just selling all your stock to one, one person or one entity. And but when you think about it like that, it makes it at least for me a lot easier to say, Okay, I have value if I, if I'm making six figures at this company, then I already know that I have my values, six figures at least, but it's actually more because they wouldn't pay me six figures unless they were making money on me.Yep, I agree. Right? No great way to look at it.So then my stock in myself is it's on a discount to this company, whoever I'm working for. What if I were to go get market value for my stock, and then I can start looking at Okay, I can make market value for my stock and all these different areas. And then it is overnight. Like I know overnight, I could be making x $9 because I know the value that I'm bringing, I know the value of my stock and what, what is being exchanged for, for the money. And so I just thought maybe if people started thinking about their life from a perspective of, I'm the CEO, and every interaction is I'm selling stock in my company. And I'm either increasing the value or decreasing the value of that stock every moment of my life, then we're more excited too, to do personal development and develop ourselves because now that's a direct investment into our value of the stock. And also, we're more excited to go share that with other people, because now we're thinking, well, if it's on a discount over here, what's the market rate for my services? And then we can go out and find a market rate for our services? And what are your thoughts about that?I think that's great. I mean, I think if I if I was going to argue with you, so to speak, from the other side, bring it on. So I agree with what you just said. With the only thought being that when you're working for someone and your value is, you know, whatever you're being paid. Then if you move out of that space to do something for yourself, if you move into a completely different area, that's when it's easy to, to not appreciate your value as being what it was for that company, because the skillset that you had for that company. So for me, I was working in it, and they were paying me to do a job in it. They didn't care whether I was a great coach or not. And they didn't care that I was making a difference to a lot of people in the company at the time. Then to move into a different space where all my value is in the coaching and the different time making the people's lives. That's when we need a real mindset shift to say I'm great I was I could make great money doing this job. But now I'm going to go and do this job. How transferable as some of the stuff. Now the personal part of me the fully transferable mindset, okay, and, and then the IT skills. They're not so transferable.So So I would so I'm not I'm like this back and forth K, argue my argument, I guess you could say or my position would be that they're not paying you to punch numbers. Right? You might think they are because that's the task you're fulfilling. But if you're an ass if you're not friendly, nobody likes you you're a pain to get along with and you don't function well in their system. It doesn't matter if you're the best person at punching numbers, you're fired because they're paying you for who you are. Conveniently, you fulfill a role for them. On the number side I most companies I've ever worked for are seeing people work for if you don't jive with the company culture, if all you do is a one skill set, and that and that's what they're paying you for. You don't get paid, you get fired. And so the recognition of what value are they paying me for? Is it because I can punch numbers, that's an added benefit. They're paying for you for who you are and your morals, your ethics. Integrity, that the ability to be on time, the ability to be reliable, all of those things we discount, and we just don't even recognize the value of what those are until you're an employer, and you're like, Okay, this person can punch numbers really good, but he ain't got anything else going for him. I can't hire that person. And so when you start thinking like an employer, all of that other stuff, that's the bulk of the value, it's not the skill that you could teach a monkey to do. It's everything else. Yeah. And that value, I would argue, is 100% transferable into any industry, that skill that you're applying that value to is is up to you.And I'm gonna have to agree with you on that one. Soit's funny enough, because when you started this conversation, the one thing I was going to say was that I actually believe the reason I was able to progress well in the IT industry, even though I didn't enjoy it, and it wasn't my passion was actually who I was as a person. As the relationship. I was able to build within any workplace. And I would often find myself ending up as leading the team, whichever team I started, and I ended up leading that team. And it was all about who I was. And it couldn't have had anything to do with my actual skills in a job. Other than my mindset did say, I will learn this skill, I will learn this job and I'll be good at it. But fundamentally, who I was the way I could relate to people across a wide range of different jobs. That was what made the difference for me to grow my income quickly when I was working in it. So you're spot on with that bit. There is the most transferable thing out there.I agree. And so the reason I'm I like this little banter between us is because this is where people are missing the mark. They think that they are like they identify their identity as being able to complete a skill rather than everything that goes with it. And your identity is not the skill that you complete your identity as who you are. Being as an individual, absolutely, and help make that distinction could be the difference between somebody fulfilling their dream of continuing to fulfill to be unfulfilled through?Yeah, I, you know, I coach guys on identity and what you just said spot on. Because so many people wrap their identity up in maybe their exact role at work or even in them being a husband or you know, a father or whatever it is. And the minute that that thing changes, so they lose their job, or they get a divorce or whatever it is. They've lost their identity because it was wrapped up in that role. But, as you say, our identity is who we are, who is this person? What attributes Do we have, when we get clear that that's our identity and these other things are roles? A total shift of who we are?Absolutely. So I think it's perspective. So I love that I'm glad that we were able to have that conversation. When it comes to specifically coach dad's helping to help men become better dads and the next generation, what would you say? If you could, and I hope that you can but described between where. And we're putting in air quotes here for anybody who's not watching this, but where our current dads like what's their current mindset and mentality, things like that? And what is the next generation of like, the new evolved dad that you're trying to coach people into? What's the difference? And how could we identify either or and this applies, By the way, this applies to women, this applies to children applies to everybody. Just because he chooses to focus on males these principles, they're human principles, not justokay, great question. Then when I look around, I think a lot of dads are in this space. So I think before we become a dad, we kind of have an idea as to the kind of dad we think we are going to be or the dad what we want to be. And that may be modeled on the dad that we had or it may be a complete opposite because often it's going to be one of the are just some ideas in our head. And then we become a dad. And we realized that it wasn't as easy as we thought it was going to be. And I think the reason for that is that we haven't when we become a dad, we still haven't mastered life. And so the bits of life that were bad enough before we became a dad, and when I talked about life, I'm talking about relationships. So you know, no one taught us how to do marriage. So we get married, and we find out well, living with someone else is quite tricky. And we've talked just about identity and no one helps us figure out who are we and we become a dad and we lose our identity of the more because Oh, so and so's a dad now and you're so and so's husband. And actually, I'm still me, what about me? And we don't we lose our sense of purpose because we get into this place like I was where we're just trying to survive, trying to bring in the money to support the family, and not really figuring out this is what my dream is, this is what I want to do in my life. We are just the Existing. And I've been speaking to some dad recently that was just saying that I just feel like I'm existing. I'm just making enough money to survive. And again, finance, you know, finances tough kids are expensive. So, so a lot of dads now are in a place where I think they, they have lost their identity, they've lost their, their, their reason for living, they're struggling in relationships with their wife. And you know, when you introduce kids into that equation, it's just it's less sleep, it's less time for each other as a couple, and therefore more stress and more struggle. They've lost their identity, they're struggling with their finance, they might have let their health go. There's all this talk about the dashboard these days. And there's the article say the dashboard is deemed like the sexy way to be now. I'm not sure I think the evidence is that people still look at the fit, fit physique and say that that guy's in good shape, and that guy's not in good shape. So all these things, we lose And then there's just the whole, how do I connect to my kids? And you know, this day and age, our kids are hooked to screens. And it's getting worse and worse. And we're trying to find out how can we stay relevant? How can we be the cool dad that I could still want to hang out with that they want to talk to. And again, no one taught us any of this. So we arrive at a place where we're trying to master the six different things. No one's taught us how to do any of it. And we just start feeling overwhelmed and thinking I'm probably not the dad that I want it to be. And you start feeling like a bit of a failure. But we have no idea what to do about it. And I think men are probably worse than women in that respect because we're not naturally good at asking for help. We don't like to admit that we're struggling. You know, I often joke that when a man is lost, he won't stop and ask for directions. He'll keep driving until he finds his way. And it's kind of the same with when you're struggling with being a dad, you don't want to turn around to your mate or your Your partner or your in-laws and say, I'm struggling, I need help. So we just kind of keep quiet, we suffer a little bit, and we struggle a lot. And that's where I think a lot of dads are. And certainly, the more I'm in a lot of groups on Facebook, etc. And I'm interacting with a lot of dads and they're all suffering from those, one of those things.That's cool. And so what's your ideal vision for them as far as where you're going to coach them into?Yeah, so kind of like turning all of that on its head. So we looked at it, it's a dad that knows who he is, is clear with his identity is happy with who he is, and doesn't doesn't feel the pressure to conform and be someone he's not someone who knows where he's going in life, someone who's got a purpose, and it's not just his purposes and just to survive, is to pursue his dream and to set that example to the family of this is what it looks like to be living a life of passion, that but the life of purpose. Someone that can model good relationships with their partner with their children, with their colleagues with their family. So we're not in this toxic situation of everyone falling out with everyone. someone that knows about health and can raise their children to understand about health because I think we've got a health epidemic going on now, particularly I don't know if it's the same out there. But in the UK, we've got some health issues that are just getting worse and worse, such as diabetes is crippling the system and it's causing more and more children to suffer. Money, again, a big problem. And we're in a world where the money is so available, you can go on gambling sites, you got lottery sites, you got credit cards, offering you as much money as you want. And no one's understanding what the impact or implication of borrowing all that money is. So again, we're not we're, the dads of today are possibly getting themselves into situations and the new generation of dad says, I'm financially responsible. I know how to handle money, and I'm going to teach my children how to handle money, how to be good stewards of money. And then in terms of parenting, it's the dad did it Want to get to the new generation of dads, they understand how to show up how to be present with their children. Because it's no good just being there. It's about being present, and about really connecting with our children. And that varies obviously from when they were a toddler through to when they were a teenager, that the whole how present being present looks and feels will vary. But it's understanding how you've got to be how you got to show up and putting the child as a priority in your life along with your partner, to make sure that they are growing up without an active participating President Biden know in their world.Now, I love that and that again, that goes to anybody. It's a husband, father, son. wife, mother, grandmother, daughter. I mean everybody needs to work on those skills, in my opinion, they're there. In general, everybody's work on we are going to find our little niche the person that we connect to the best, right but if you feel like that you could benefit from that type of coaching. Reach out to Nick. I mean, I'm sure he's willing to have a conversation very least. And if he's not the right fit for you, they'll let you know. And you can direct you to somebody who might be a better fit. I'm curious just because I've talked about this or struggle with this. And when it comes to identity, I want to help people identify their identity as well. But I want to hear your take on this. I have seen this happen, where, because two people didn't know who they were, when they got married, then they had kids, but they were the whole time they were fulfilling somebody else's identity them. And then you help them dig down and find out who they are at their core. And when both people find out who they are at their core, they find out that they don't connect. They're not a good couple. It's, for lack of a better word. It's better that they like to get divorced, and go fulfill their passions because there's So far on different pages when they get down to their core, how do you handle that from a coaching perspective? Because, again, you don't want to be breaking up families. And on the other hand, you want people to fully live and bean and fulfill their, their identity and who they're meant to be. So how do you balance that if somebody gets into a bad relationship, a relationship they didn't know was bad, or they didn't know is contrary to who they are? And then they find that out? How do you go about handling that situation?Well, that is a massive question, isn't it? And you've just landed that one on me, Samuel. Thank you. So I mean, that's a really interesting one. Because I think if you if you get to a point where you have successfully got them both to unveil their true identities, I, to me, that's a massive success. Because they can now be free to be who they are. But I think as you said that there may be an unfortunate situation where actually when they're living true to themselves, there is no connection between them. And I think you've got to look at Within marriage, you know, too often people say, Oh, I falling out of love. Well, that's great. You can fall in, you can fall out of love very easily. I love to me that is a verb, it's a do. It's an action, it's not feeling. The feeling of falling in love is great. It happens early days, it's exciting. But there will be times when that feeling can go away, but we decided to love daily. I think referring to a situation you were just talking to think it comes down to what their nature is. And all their natures align to in any way that could hold them together, where they could appreciate that their identity, their values may be a bit different, or in revealing their true identity or their values so misaligned that is not healthy for them to stay in a relationship. And while I would hate to advocate a couple breaking up when they've got children, even when they haven't got children, because I've been there I've seen what it's you know the effect it had on my children.I'm also not an advocate of couples staying togetherIf there's no relationship between them because I think you're modeling an unhealthy relationship to the children as well. So we've got to be honest with ourselves because too many people will use that as an excuse to walk away. Sure. But I think in the very least, if you've coached them through that process, and there's just such a divide between the two of them, then maybe the best thing you can do is coach them into a healthy situation where they can move apart, but in a way that's, that doesn't mean there's any animosity between them. Sure. Because I think what causes a problem in marriage breakdown is the animosity and the use of the children in the middle of an argument. So you know, I don't think we can fix every marriage going and if we can't fix it, then I'd say divorce well. And that's sometimes what is unfortunate that may prove to be the better solution.Yeah, it's an interesting thing. Question. I've talked to a quite a few marriage therapists, divorce attorney, I talked to a lot of people about that, and I don't have the right answer. I'm fully committed to helping people identify who they are at their core. I believe, as you've stated that you can choose to love anybody, and regardless of how compatible you are, but I do think that compatibility is also a big and it's got to be part of the equation you got to be you can't, you can't? I don't know. I don't know. It's hard for me.I don't know it's such a hard one is that because Idon't know what your edge outweighs that fulfilling the purpose of happiness on this planet? Yeah.And I like to say I think you've got it. You've got to look at what you're modeling to your children. Because what you want for your children is to understand how to select the right partner and make that marriage work. And, you know, I think if we're not careful, we have children growing up and thinking that marriage is all about mom and dad barely talking to each other or not liking each other. And that's not a particularly great place for our children to grow up either. Yeah, but I don't want to sit here and make it. I don't want for everyone to think, Oh, you know, I'm not getting along great with my partner today. So I better split up so that my children don't see us argue. That's not what I'm saying. It depends when those two identities come out, it just depends on how radically different their values are. And their viewpoints on life. Because there has to be some compatibility for it to be maintainable. It's interestingtoday. It's a great question. Love it. It's like that the classic ethical dilemma questions where you're just like, I don't know, I don't know the answer, but I like to think about it because I think it serves me to know hey, what, where am I at? What am I willing to sacrifice to be a share that loves and to help and serve and bless others. So I'm curious where how do we support you? How do we get in contact with you? where's the best place to reach out to Facebook? Like, what's your social media presence? Where're your websites? at what's the best way to get ahold of you if we wanted to coach, or wanted help,but the best way is probably through Facebook. So I've got a page on Facebook called dad up, and it's at facebook.com forward slash dad up today. So that's the page and then I've got a group of any dads out there listening and want to be part of our closed group community as a free group where I provide a little bit of training and we just build a community of dads. And that's facebook.com forward slash groups forward slash extraordinary dads. I'm just about in the next two weeks, I'm launching my online membership program, which will be a very low-cost membership program online for dads to get weekly coaching. So training videos on all the topics we've been discussing today. group coaching calls Question and Answer session every week, be part of a private community. So if anyone's interested in knowing more about that they best off just reaching out to me via Facebook through the means we've just mentioned. And I'll add them on to the mailing list who are going to get notified in the next couple of weeks when that all comes out. Ensure that just finding me personally on Facebook as well. I'm on Facebook, I am on Instagram, but I haven't embraced the Instagram world quite yet. But I know I need to as my kids keep telling meand yeah, it can it comes and goes for me sometimes I'm way active on it. Other times I'm just not active on it. But so this is a good time to be releasing this episode is going to be right around Valentine's Day. So if you are thanks if you just went through Valentine's Day and you're thinking man, I could do better then let's better things.Yeah, I mean, particularly, you know, relationships are one of the biggest things I want to teach that. And that we've got some brilliant tools that we can give guys that absolutely will transform a relationship for you. And it doesn't matter where your partner is that we can work just with the guy, and it's going to make a huge difference to what's going on in their home.Yep. Awesome. I love it. So here's the second the last section of the whole podcast, which is again, one of my favorites, but it's called legacy on rapid-fire. So I'm gonna ask you five questions, and I'm looking for one word, two, one-sentence answers. And depending on how you answer the first question, I may ask you to clarify. Because I've had some people who answered the same, same answer. Okay, consistently. So I'm like, well, that's good. I'm glad I'm talking to a group of enlightened people. But let's go to the next level and let's go deeper. So,you ready? I'm ready forthat. The first question is, what do you believe is holding you back from reaching the next level of your legacy.Fear.Okay, fear of what?Fear of failure?Okay. Awesome. And it's good. It's good that you're aware of that. And what do you think the hardest thing you've ever accomplished has been thehardest thing of all? That's a great question.It is maintaining a relationship with my kids after they moved away, and is consistently showing up for them. It may sound stupid to say that's the hardest thing. But in terms of consistently doing it for over 10 years, it's, it's taken a side of me that wasn't in me before.Yeah, I love that. And what do you think your greatest success at this point in your life has been?If I'm allowed to almost repeat the previous answer, the relationship I've got with my children. I think it's phenomenal. The fact that they will still travel for hours on a Friday and a Sunday every other weekend. Come and see me when they're teenagers and have a great day. social lives. That speaks volumes to me that I've done an ALRIGHT job.Yeah, that's awesome. And what would you say is one secret habit mindset or behavior that you believe contributes most to your success?Um, I would say my self talk. So just repeating the positive stuff to myself and not allowing the negative talks to come in. Awesome.And what are two or three books that you'd recommend to feel your legacy audience? I lovesort of all the classic books but I love the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. One of the books that transformed my way back was How to Win Friends and Influence People. Great book and Rich Dad Poor Dad. awesome book and anything by Tony Robbins I'm a massive Tony Robbins fan. Sonow awesome. So this is now my favorite, favorite question to ask which is why say for last but I asked all of my clients this, I asked me and then I'm coaching this anybody who's joined my business. I am asking all of them this question. Okay, you ready for this question? I'm ready. Okay, so we're going to pretend that you are dead. You've died, and six generations from now. So this is your great-great, great, great, great-grandchildren. You get the opportunity to listen in to a conversation they're having sitting around the dinner table talking about your life neck, they're talking about what your legacy is, what do you want them to be saying six generations from now about Nick's legacy,that he made a difference. But he stepped out in faith, with courage, did what he felt he was called to do. And he made a difference that lives on six generations later. That's awesome.I love it. So I've been waiting to say this thing the whole time. But everything that it comes that we've talked about today comes down to being in alignment and finding out your identity. And so answering that question, what do you want your legacy to be if you're listening to this answer that question for yourself, I asked it on every episode. So it's not shouldn't be a new question if you've been listening, but I asked this on every episode, you'll see how different people answer it. But answer that for yourself take the time to journal, what do I want that conversation to look like? Second, what are my core values? What are my three or four core values that for me, are guiding in my life and if it doesn't, if something that I might be participating in doesn't align with those core values, then I choose not to participate? Third, what fulfills me right and you know, as we went through this thing, all these things Nick has answered he wants to be remembered as somebody who steps out and is different. His values are family commitments, serving, keeping people close and connecting with people. And what fulfills him is blessing other people's lives, seeing the light come back into their lives, and specifically working with fathers and helping them do what he was able to do and so and that and that wasn't like something just came up with as they're from the beginning of his life. And even before he went into college and got out of college, all of these values were there just took him a while to align his life in alignment with his legacy, his values, and fulfillment. And then you get to look at how can I bring that to the world? And how can I fulfill that and make money doing it? And, and I'm confident that Nick can help you with all of those things, answer those questions. I also can help you if you're interested in and chatting with me. But I just love it. So thank you so much, Nick, for your time. I super appreciate you. Thank you, gentlemen, late over there.No problem. It's been a fantastic conversation. I enjoyed it. Cool.Yeah. Well, we will catch you guys next time on fuel your legacy.Thanks for joining us. What you heard today resonates with you please like comment and share on social media tag me and if you do, give me a shout out. I'll give you a shout out on the next episode. Thanks to All those who've left a review, it helps spread the message of what it takes to build a legacy that lasts and we'll catch you next time on fuel your legacy.Connect more with your host Samuel Knickerbocker at:https://www.facebook.com/ssknickerbocker/?ref=profile_intro_cardhttps://www.instagram.com/ssknickerbocker/https://howmoneyworks.com/samuelknickerbockerIf this resonates with you and you would like to learn more please LIKE, COMMENT, & SHARE————————————————————————————————————Click The Link Bellow To Join My Legacy Builders Mastermindhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/254031831967014/Click here to check out my webinar as well!————————————————————————————————————Want to regain your financial confidence and begin building your legacy?In this ebook you will learn:- The 9 Pillars To Build A Legacy- Clarify you “why”- Create Daily Action Steps To Launch ForwardWant Sam’s FREE E-BOOK?Claim your access here! >>> Fuel Your Legacy: The 9 Pillars To Build A Legacy————————————————————————————————————

Keynote speakers for the 2019 Women of Color Leadership Summit Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johnson (Director of the Women's Center at Northwestern University) and KaeLyn Rich  (queer feminist, a direct-action organizer, a nonprofit leader, and a sexuality educator in upstate New York) discuss women of color in places of leadership, as well as collaboration across universities between women of color.     Transcript: Introduction: From Bowling Green State University and the Institute for the Study of Culture and Society, this is BG Ideas. Intro Song Lyrics: I'm going to show you this with a wonderful experiment. Jolie Sheffer: Welcome back to the BG Ideas podcast, a collaboration between the Institute for the Study of Culture and Society and the School of Media and Communication at Bowling Green State University. I am Jolie Sheffer, Associate Professor of English and American Culture Studies and the Director of ICS. Jolie Sheffer: Today we are joined by two very special guests, Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johnson and KaeLyn Rich. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johnson currently serves as Director of the Women's Center at Northwestern University. KaeLyn Rich is a queer feminist, a direct action organizer, a nonprofit leader, and a sexuality educator in upstate New York. On behalf of ICS and the Center for Women and Gender Equity, I'd like to welcome you both to BGSU. I'm thrilled to have you here as keynote speakers for the 2019 Women of Color Leadership Summit. Jolie Sheffer: The summit is designed to increase the number of women of color in places of leadership to encourage collaboration across the university as well as share the lessons and knowledge on leadership practice developed and modeled by women of color. Thanks again for joining me. I'd like each of you to give a little background on your current work, then how you came to the role you now occupy. What has been your own path to becoming a leader? Sekile? Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: That's a great question. I appreciate you asking. I often interpreted my career, up until a few years ago, I interpreted my career as being disjointed. Every time I took a pivot in my career I felt like I was adding all of these kind of disjointed parts of myself. I started as a clinician, and then I'm a researcher, and now I'm really focused on training social workers as a professor. And I couldn't quite see what the narrative was or what the arc was in my career. And then I came to Chicago and continued my work as a professor and scholar and researcher and began also doing policy work. And again, I felt like these were all very disjointed. I couldn't see that where the thread was. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And then I was interviewing for my position at Northwestern and it was within that interview that it all began to gel for me. And I realized that each and every one of these pieces, being a clinician, being an activist, working in policy, working in research, being an educator, that each one of these pieces prepared me to now step into my role as the Director of the Women's Center. And that was my narrative and it wasn't disjointed, but actually that they were building me in all these different skillsets that I would need to move into this leadership role. Because I actually like doing all of those things. I like doing research, and I like policy, and I like being able to be empathic towards people, which is a use of my clinical skills. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And I also like to educate folks and I love to be in community and in collaboration and coalition with folks. And so, all of those things are pieces oof my leadership style, and they're things that I think we actually need if we're going to be change agents, a catalyst for change within institutional settings. Jolie Sheffer: And so what is your vision now for the Women's Center and you taking over this role? You've been there a little while now. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: Yeah, so I've been there about a year and a half. And I think one piece for me is the vision is to articulate who we are and who we have been, and shining a light on the things that the Women's Center has contributed to the institution. So historicizing our work is really important to me. And then being able to then amplify it. So, that's a vision of mine. So to remind the university of what we've done and what we have the capacity for, and to assert ourselves within the institution. Another kind of vision for me, because we sit in the Office of the Provost, so we're faculty staff and student serving, is to make sure that as I think about programming that I'm thinking about programming that actually impacts the larger campus community. And so, it doesn't just kind of serve one piece. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And then I'm also the co-chair of the campus-wide task force to support gender queer, non-binary, and trans faculty staff and students. And so to also imagine the Women's Center as not only a safe space for women, but other gender and sexual minorities. And so, to expand out our notion of what it means to respond to gender inequity and not just that it focuses on women, but also trans and non-binary folks. And so, that's a real big commitment of mine. And I see myself to be leading that institutional work, and not just at the institutional, but even transforming some of our practices within the Women's Center. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And then the final piece is to always center the experiences of the most marginalized at Northwestern University's campus. It's a very elite institution. And so, how we think about marginalized communities is even amplified in that setting. So first generation students, transnational folks, gender and sexual minorities, women of color, indigenous people, first gen, and I might've said first gen already, but first gen and working class folks, all those folks are truly on the margin at Northwestern. And so, keeping them at the center of my program is really, really critical for me. Jolie Sheffer: Okay, thank you. KaeLyn, what about you? What has been your journey to the work you're doing today? KaeLyn RIch: Yeah, so a great build off of what Sekile was talking about, the Women's Center, I actually was Co-Director of the Women's Center at my university for undergrad. So I went to a state school in New York, State University of New York College at Oswego. A little rural, actually the town, the city of Oswego, was a lot like the city of Bowling Green. So I feel that like kind of downtown, one main street surrounded by rural expanse, and then one, we had a Walmart, you have a different store, but one like big store where all of the things are. Jolie Sheffer: We do have a Walmart, too. KaeLyn RIch: You have a Walmart, too? Yeah. Driving out all the moms and pops, but that's a whole other podcast. So anyways, our women's center there came out of that sort of history of women's centers. It was started in the '70s, 1974, I believe, by a group of women who wanted to respond to sexual assault and to employment issues, to wage issues, and employment access for women. And it started off campus actually and eventually came on campus. The difference is, that was a student-led, student-run organization. So both myself and my co-directors were all undergraduate students. It was funded through our student association, our student government, but it was through that, that I really began to sort of actualize myself as a leader in activist movements. KaeLyn RIch: I think activism has always been part of my personal narrative. My parents were both public school teachers, they were both union leaders. So I like to joke that I'm a community organizer and my organizing experience goes back to stuffing folders around the dining room table for my mom and dad for the union meetings, because that's sort of my earliest memory. I grew up with this sort of idea that if you want to see something changed or if you want to advocate for your rights, you have to do it yourself. KaeLyn RIch: And college was really the first time where I actualized that and internalized it. It became part of who I am, not just how I grew up. One of my first jobs was working in a shelter for women and children escaping family violence. And I made those connections through work I was doing as a student leader at the women's center as well as some of my kind of additional, that long list of things that I do come out of that time. So I was a sexuality educator for a period of time, for about five years. It was sort of a side job on top of my full-time job and I would travel around the country talking about sex ed. I did a lot of freshman orientation programs. I also did a lot of the LGBTQ, et cetera, programming and that company I worked for, Sex Discussed Here, discussed, talked about, not discussed, like you, they're most popular for the I Love Female Orgasm program. Some people might recognize them from that. KaeLyn RIch: We actually brought them to bring that program and some of their other programs, when I was a student leader. So at the women's center we'd brought this group in, it's a couple who was really doing the work, just them at the time. And then they started hiring more people and they remembered me, weirdly enough, from college all those years ago, and reached out and asked if I would be on their team. So I've been lucky to cultivate a lot of relationships and a lot of what community organizing is about is in fact about cultivating relationships and building meaningful connections between people of various kinds of lived experiences. And it all goes all the way back to the women's center. KaeLyn RIch: So similarly, I've worn lots of hats. I've tried out lots of different things, which is why it's hard to sort of define what I do. I would say professionally in terms of my day job, I've been a, I would say my skills are community organizing. What I've done is sort of professional activism. So, right now my job is Assistant Advocacy Director. I oversee our statewide offices outside of the main office in New York City. And I used to run one of those regional offices as well. And then on the side, not on the side, in addition, too, I'm also a writer. I write for autostraddle.com. It's a queer independent website for women and non-binary folks, for and by, and writing for that site is actually what got me the book deal for Girls Resist. KaeLyn RIch: So, I'm a first time author of a YA, young adult book, called Girls Resist, a guide to activism, leadership, and starting a revolution. So, Girls Resist wasn't actually an idea that started with me in a direct way.It started with, I was writing for Autostraddle, this column called Be the Change. And this all happened after the 2016 election. The reality is, the idea for writing this organizing column was based on my personal experience as an organizer started way before the election. It wasn't like a direct response to it. It's just an idea that I'd run by my editors and they were like, "Yes, let's do a little mini series on organizing." Then we kind of put it on a shelf and I just hadn't gotten back around to it. KaeLyn RIch: After the election, it seemed like the content that we already had planned on creating, so it was relevant then and it's relevant now, was information people wanted. People wanted to know, "How do I take action? How do I get involved?" And a lot of people were either entering activism for the first time or were coming back to it after a long time and just were really looking for this kind of stuff. And Autostraddle were also bringing it through a queer and feminist lens. So I decided to take that project off the shelf. I started writing this column called Be the Change about community organizing. Similarly, at my publisher Quirk Books, my editor there had this idea on the shelf before the election of a teen activism handbook. KaeLyn RIch: She handled a lot of YA titles, a lot YA feminist nonfiction. And similarly after the election she was like, "Okay, this is the time to find someone to work on this project." So my publisher actually reached out to me, not the other way around. It was a traditional publisher, not an academic one, and asked if I wanted to collaborate on this project, and from there it became mine. So I mean, once I signed on, and came under contract, I did all the work of writing the book and the way that it's framed is like 100% in my words and language. But the idea for it was sort of a collaboration between two people that were having similar ideas at the same time. Jolie Sheffer: What are some of the challenges, from where you sit and the work that you do, what do you see as some of the greatest challenges women of color face in terms of accessing or succeeding at leadership roles? Whether it's in the academy, at not-for-profits, in community organizing, in politics? Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: Yeah, so I'll talk, I'll take a couple of those. I think, so in addition to my academic work, maybe it's because of my role as a social worker, I've always done also community-engaged work, activist work. And so, I've been serving on the board of the Chicago Abortion Fund, actually, for the last six years, and have been both in a leadership role as the board chair and co-chair. But also, just serving on the board more regularly. I think that when I think about the Chicago Abortion Fund, and I think about the last decade, or the last 15 years, where we've had women of color at the helm as far as being the executive director of the small not-for-profit as well as being in leadership capacity on the board, I think that it's a microcosm, I think, of broader challenges. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: Which is, those spaces that serve women of color, and indigenous women most directly are also the most underfunded and under-resourced. And so, we are often doing so much with so little. And when I look at organizations like Planned Parenthood or even the ACLU, I mean, they are funded in a way that allows them to do their work. But we are most directly on the ground connected to the everyday struggles and everyday experiences of communities of color, people of color, working class communities, rural and urban, and often don't have the resources to do. But so the expectations are high that we're successful, but were not given staff, we're not given grants, we're not given the funding, the community support, the institutional support to do the work well. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And so, women of color are often seen as failures when they get into leadership capacity, leadership roles, because they didn't do well. They didn't end ... But my question is, have we been given the resources to do well? Whether that's even access to education. Many women who step into leadership roles are doing it because they see the need in their community. They roll up their sleeves, they become activists, then people see their promise, they are hired. But they aren't always given the access to education and the skills training, professional development they might need to do maybe the operation side of the work. And so, I think that ... Or, we do have all those skills but we're faced with issues around racism and sexism and a notion that we're incompetent, right? Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And so, I think from the reading of our bodies as incompetent, the lack of support that we get structurally that don't allow us to succeed, and I think the very, the complexity of issues that we also take on, we are fighting for, for instance, I'm engaged in the reproductive justice struggle. And that means that I'm not only mobilizing around abortion access, I'm mobilizing around sterilization abuse, I'm mobilizing around access to healthcare broadly, to clean drinking water, because it's toxic due to lead, high levels of lead. I'm concerned about public education, and housing access, and food security. So all of these, from environmental issues to bread and butter issues, are reproductive justice issues. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And that means women of color are often dispersed, because we're engaged in all of these struggles, right? And we see them as connected. And that means that it really impacts our capacity sometimes to be impactful in any one struggle, because we see ... and the fact that we have to choose which struggles we should be connected with, I think, is really problematic. But we often see the connections between struggles. So I think those are challenges, because people who are in the environmental justice movement or people who in the food justice movement, or the clean eating, for instance, I don't know if I even call that a justice movement, but this notion around clean eating, not looking at the larger social issues, and not thinking through the connection between social struggles means that women of color are doing that work. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And I think then, and that produces for me, burnout. That produces a sense of betrayal, that you don't see the connections between all of these. And then I also think that can impact then our effectiveness if we're burnt out, if we're not supported, if we're not getting funded in the ways that we should get funded, if we're expected to do more with less. So that's what I think is on the community level, what I've seen. And within struggles, what I've seen is some of the real, real barriers to our success, that they're not about us at the individual level, but really structurally the pieces that are swirling around us. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: From an institutional level, when I think about higher ed, I think it's the same thing, that we are often in marginalized spaces in institutional settings. It is no surprise that most women of color are in the health fields. We're in the professional fields like education, we're in social work, we're in the liberal arts and sciences, which are completely being erased and underfunded in higher ed. And at the center level, we're in the social justice education, we're in the women's centers, we're in the multicultural student center. And so, all of these spaces are the marginalized spaces. So we're marginalized people also occupying marginalized spaces within the institution. We're precarious people occupying precarious spaces within institutionalized settings. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And when you have that compounded amount of reality, that is going to impact your capacity to be a leader. And so, you're navigating what it means to live in this body, but also what it means to even navigate and live within these units within higher ed. And so I think, and then you have people also lined up outside your door. So outside my door, are my students, they're my peers, they're my colleagues, they're community members, who now see me with a particular title and think I might be able to impact their lives in ways that I sometimes and often don't have capacity to. And sometimes they're even people who are administrators who are above me, but who look like me and also need support. And I don't have, even with my title, institutional power to transform their, to change their reality, which really often has be done at a policy level or a culture shifting level. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: So I think the expectation that we even once we get into a leadership role have the capacity to transform centuries of injustice and inequity and really, is overwhelming. And also demoralizing, because you can only do what you can do within a workday. And we do make contributions, but we're expected, I think, because of our roles and our identities to somehow do bigger work and more impactful work than the next person. Jolie Sheffer: So the work isn't always visible and it isn't supported in ways that allow that capacity to build. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: Yeah. And I also think that much of the work that, and we had this conversation yesterday as we were visiting the graduate students at our graduate course, was that the work is invisibilized, because you don't see it in part of your annual review. With regard, if you're a faculty member, we know, even at teaching institutions, service is invisible. And we know that women, queer folk, people of color, first gen folks are doing the majority of that emotional labor, that service. And that is retention work. That keeps colleagues and students here. But it often doesn't count towards our annual review. If your staff, it doesn't go, there's often not a space for it on your tenure portfolio, or it isn't weighted the same. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: It matters. We know it matters, but it's not weighted the same. We're giving contradictory messages, focus on your scholarship, focus on your teaching, but also be available to students and mentor. But so I think, so it's those pieces, that those kinds of contradictory spaces, this what I call invisibilized work, versus invisible work. Because the work, as our colleague said, yes, it's very visible, but we're choosing not to count it. We're choosing not to. So that's an active, actionable thing to not count the leadership work that looks very different sometimes. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: But to count, if someone, for instance, at Northwestern, they get a patent, right? So that makes the front page of the paper. They get more resources for their lab. But someone who actually has been committed to retaining faculty, staff, and students, and Northwestern also contributes to the university's growth in development but doesn't get the same type of accolades, you know? Yeah. Jolie Sheffer: What about you, KaeLyn? From your position, your roles, what are the concerns that you really take up in terms of women of color, accessing and mobilizing leadership opportunities? KaeLyn RIch: Yeah, they're very similar in the nonprofit world, in the social justice world. Even when we were talking about working in communities and in community with folks, these same things come up. Because who we are can't be separated from the work that we do. Especially those of us that choose to work in helping, teaching social justice fields is there, and things follow us. So we can create safer spaces for each other, but there's always going to be triggers of racism and classism, and homophobia, and transphobia, and ableism, and just things that show up in those spaces, because we're all complex people. And when you hold those marginalized identities, you also really can't separate who you are from the work you're doing, sometimes. You have to really work hard at that. KaeLyn RIch: I think most superhero stories start, someone gets their superpower is because of a traumatic event in their life. And I wouldn't say that I want, I don't want to mischaracterize my love for my family by saying it was a traumatic event, but being a trans-racial adoptee was a literally life-changing event for me. So, I came here at the age of 17 months. I grew up Korean, and a very visible minority in a very rural area of Western New York, where my family was white. My sister is also adopted and Korean, but we were really the only Korean kids in our school. And I grew up with all friends that were white, all teachers that were white. When you think about sort of my standpoint, I occupy space as a woman of color, but it took me a really long time to get there. KaeLyn RIch: Even, to be honest, I identified as a feminist first, I identified as queer first, as a writer, as an activist for social justice movements, as a student organizer, all of these things. It really wasn't until I was a fully-grown adult that I came into understanding myself as a woman of color, which is bizarre to think about for white people, I think, because it's so visible on my face. Like you look at my face and you think, "Oh, well, she's Asian." But for me it wasn't so clear, because I grew up so separate from my culture. And the trauma is around being separated from who you are, and being fed instead sort of the dominant narrative, which is a white and male narrative of who our country is, how we came to be, when none of that was my history and I was completely cut off from it. KaeLyn RIch: But through adoption, not through any one person's choice, but through the system of international and trans-racial adoption, and the lack of thought about how that works. So on the flip of that, that's the superpower that came out of something that wasn't so great. The superpower I get from that, which I try to use to open doors for other people, but also is exhausting, is that I'm exceptionally good at meeting other people where they are. I'm exceptionally good at respectability politics and adopting how I talk, how I dress, how I show up, and thinking through those things very actively every day. And so that I'm not threatening to white people. KaeLyn RIch: As an Asian woman, I also get to show up differently in spaces sometimes than my black colleagues. Because the stereotypes, at least in New York State, around who we are, are so different and all of them are harmful. But the sort of microaggressions I get are very different than being seen as threatening, or as violent, or as angry. If anything, I have to do more to prove that I am strong and capable and that I'm not so like passive and like a receptacle for information. Or for honestly like white, like b.s. Sometimes people come to me and I think because Asians are light-skinned because we have a lot of racism in our own communities. There's a lot going on there. White people feel more comfortable talking to me than talking to, let's say, one of my black peers about race, about issues, because they think we're going to have some sort of kinship around there. And my kinship is 100% with women of color. And especially with queer women of color. KaeLyn RIch: That said, it gives me access to open up spaces. And for me, I choose, I don't think it is anyone's job to be, to work with gatekeepers to try to hold open those doors. A lot of people are just working on survival and that's 100% fair, and really, all we can ask of people. I choose to sort of use that earned and learned superpower to try to build bridges for people to try to take on some of that emotional labor that can be truly exhausting in order to make things a little bit better, take a little bit of burden off of someone else. KaeLyn RIch: I mean, I think it's part of, to be honest, I think it's why I've succeeded at leadership, in so many ways is because a lot of people feel like they can relate to me, right? I have that reputation, and it's afforded me leadership opportunities because there's often, often people in power are white. Often people in power are of dominant identities a lot of different ways. I've worked primarily with women in my career, in terms of leadership, but a lot of those women have been white, a lot of them have been, all of them have been cisgender and most of them have been straight, and generally come from a place of systemic privilege, systemic power, and they get to broker who else gets access. KaeLyn RIch: And I think a lot of why I've been given access, and I want to be really honest about it, is that I've learned and sometimes don't even do it intentionally, how just sort of adapt to what white people think is the right way to act or the right way to be in the world. Because I've had to do that literally from as early as I can remember in school, in life, in my family, in my relationships, I've had to navigate being the visible other, and what that means for me in terms of both self-identification and how I show up. I mean, now, obviously I'm more thoughtful and critical about it, but it does show up in everything you do. KaeLyn RIch: So how I wrote Girls Resist would've been really different than how my editor who was a white woman, like a woke, smart white woman would have written it. But she wouldn't have thought of some of the things that I thought of just off the bat. And that showed, even in the process, there were several times, because all of the staff at that publisher at that time, not anymore, were white and all the people working on my book were white. There were definitely times where I had to sort of do extra work of kind of like, at one point they were putting quotes into the book and all the quotes that they'd added were by white women, every single one. KaeLyn RIch: And I was like, which was very, the book is written in a way that's intentionally intersectional and intentionally accessible to young people obviously, but I want like trans girls to see themselves in it. I want black and brown girls to see themselves in it, and Asian girls. And queer and trans people in general. Really anyone who has a marginalized identity, even though girls is sort of very binary language. I tried to break that down as much as possible, right? So if you're on the margins, this book is about giving this information to you. When that comes up there's a whole chapter on, there's actually a whole chapter on intersectionality and what people are now in social justice fields are calling being an accomplice, but I call it sort of like meaningful allyship, like really standing up and standing with. KaeLyn RIch: And then you put in all these quotes from all these white women. And I was like, okay, I see what you're doing here. And not even like, I don't know, they were not thoughtful quotes, either. And just one example ... and my publisher was great in that they did go back and change them out when I sent sort of the email. I was like, "This and this and this is problematic. Here are some other suggestions of quotes you could use." And I did a quick Google search. It's not like this information is hard to find. I was like, how about we have like a black trans women talking about gender equity instead of, no offense to Gloria Steinem, she's great, but instead of Gloria Steinem. And even that quote was like very heteronormative, it was about men and women and like, "Behind every man," and I was like, "No, no, no. This isn't like for teens. It's also not like how we would frame this issue for people of color or for trans women, for people who are even more marginalized by the gender wage gap." KaeLyn RIch: So a lot of it is that. It's like the doing, that constant awareness, and the constant emotional labor, and the constant, especially something like a book that's going to have your name on it, you know? I couldn't let it go out in the world with just added quotes from important women, but there are lots of women who don't get that platform and I wanted to make sure their voices were included too. KaeLyn RIch: So, a lot of being in leadership is taking that step of putting yourself at risk a little bit, because there's always the risk that someone's going to think you're difficult to work with, or even as an Asian woman, or that you're too militant or you're being, I think earlier today we were talking about being feminist killjoys, but being that person that's always making things hard, and you just have to do it anyways. Jolie Sheffer: Good. One of the things that we focus on at ICS is interdisciplinary approaches to important topics, and the importance of sort of crossing over those conventional silos. So Sekile, since a good deal of your research is particularly in relation to different disciplines and intersections of race, class, and gender, could you talk about how interdisciplinarity shapes your work? Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: Sure. Sure. I'm really excited to talk about this, actually, from a teaching and a scholarship perspective. So I mentioned earlier, my career started in the professions as a social worker. So, but luckily I went to an undergrad institution that grounded my professional development or my professional skills in kind of a really critical race theory, intersectionality, liberal arts education. So I was, and I feel like liberal arts is where the beginnings of interdisciplinarity emerged. And so, I was really grounded in what it meant to be a critical thinker, what it meant to be an engaged person in your community. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And I was able to model, as a professor, what it meant to have a strong liberal arts foundation before you had your ... Because I feel like any social worker needs to know how to engage in humanity, needs to have critical thinking skills, needs to have depth in their analysis. And so, that is critical for me as someone who received that kind of education to also deliver it to the next person. After working in social work as a professor, I also began to teach in women and gender studies and in psychology. So I'm interesting in the sense that I have been an educator in a professional field. I've been an educator and researcher in an interdisciplinary field like women's studies, and also in psychology, which is a social science. So it's been a wonderful ... so, interdisciplinarity is actually at the core of my teaching and my research. And of course, in the field of women's studies, it's an interdisciplinary field. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: So how that shows up in my research is actually, I'll talk about both of my books which somehow I have not talked about. But my first book, which is an edited volume called Black Women, Mothering and the Academy, which is an edited volume that really looks at the theorization of maternity as well as the experience of maternity in higher ed. And so, myself and I believe, 12 or 13 other scholars, some in academia, some in not, wrote about, contributed chapters there. And my intention was again, to offer an interdisciplinary intersectional way of thinking about motherhood in higher ed. And so, sometimes people wrote about their experience as mothers and their marginalization as mothers in higher ed. Also as black women navigating that embodied reality. Sometimes people talked about maternalized labor. I define maternalized labor not only as the emotional labor, but also the gendered labor and this assumption that we're going to take care of the university's children. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: But using and drawing upon social sciences, drawing upon personal narratives, deciding to allow people to write in a way that incorporates their personal narrative and with research, right. And so, allowing for that fluidity, that boundless way, that disruptive way of thinking about academic work. So that's the first book. And I really enjoy just that each chapter feels very, very different from the other. And so, I think that that book represents a nice example of the benefits in the interdisciplinary. And for me, the inclusivity, because it allowed black women to write in a way that was freeing and liberatory. So in my current book, I also am doing the same thing, which is inspired by a chapter in the first book, which was written by a black queer woman who talked about being a mother and actually being a working class, struggling mother as an academic. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And so, I became really fascinated by that sub-theme that showed up in that first book about these black women who were highly educated and also receiving public assistance and receiving welfare. And so, looking at that paradox between highly educated and also poor as a black woman. And so this, the second book, which is called, currently the working title is Laboring Positions, Higher Education as a Hyper-Producer of Inequity. And so, within this book I'm doing the same kind of engagement from an interdisciplinary perspective in which I am using black women's narratives around being highly educated, and also navigating poverty and also using data from educational data, sociological data, and historical data, so both the what unfortunately we call the hard data, right? But including the narrative as well, and again, allowing them to blend and bleed together and be boundless and how I think through this work and to also be disruptive. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: One of the pieces that I took a risk, and only because I was encouraged by a black feminist who's my mentor, Julia Jordan-Zachery, who I encourage you to read any and everything written by this wonderful scholar. I struggled really hardly with finishing my final chapter, my conclusion. I just couldn't, I was just stuck. I had writer's block. And she said, "It's time for you to tell your story." Because I had been trying to stay emotionally disengaged from the work, because that is the way we are trained as scholars, particularly those of us who are in the social sciences to stay distant from our work, to be objective, use the scientific method. And so, I had been keeping some emotional distance from the work. And she said, "It's time for you to to write." Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: And so, usually you might kind of do a little testimony in the preface of your book and as the setup. But instead, I actually did it in the conclusion, and I said ... and I'd use a not very nontraditional ... I was a rule breaker. And so the conclusion of my forthcoming book actually tells my story as an academic. And it's breaking lots of disciplinary rules by doing so, even the structure of the book. And I'm lucky enough that Johns Hopkins University Press is allowing me to go on that journey. So when I sent it to the press editors, they said, "This actually traditionally fits in the preface, but I like where you put it, and I think your story matters. And I think it goes here." Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: So I think for me, that's the crux of what it means to be an interdisciplinary scholar is also just deciding to break the rules, deciding, but intentionally deciding. That there's thoughtfulness. And I actually say within the text, "I know I'm breaking the rules, I am taking a risk here, but I want you to come on this journey with me. And I think that it is part of my method." So there's a methodological intention to it that I need to include my voice in this book. And I think that I wrote the book initially as this researcher, this outsider within, but I realized that I actually am a character in my own book, and I wanted to disclose that. And I'm disclosing it here in this final chapter. Dr. Sekile Nzinga-Johsnon: So that was the kind of journey I went on. And it's, my latest, I guess, articulation of what interdisciplinary means for me. And of course, that's at the intersection of race, class, gender, and sexuality. But I would say that this book really focuses on really critically class, because I think we take up race and gender quite often in academia, but I really wanted to point out the class struggle that women of color are facing within higher ed. And that is often not, the light is not shined on. So this book really forefronts our class-based struggles and ... Yeah. So I'll just leave it there. Jolie Sheffer: So KaeLyn, I want you to tell us a little more about Girls Resist. You've talked about kind of what started the book, but how did you go about thinking through the form of the book, related to some of the things Sekile was talking about interdisciplinarity. How did you decide that a young adult book was the right approach? And then how did you tackle what that book should look like? KaeLyn RIch: Yeah, so those are great questions. I think that ... We knew from the beginning it was going to be a young adult book. It wasn't immediately apparent whether it was going to be middle grade and up or high school and up. I initially conceived that it'd be middle grade and up. Ironically, we ended up writing it for high school and up. But then now as it's getting different starred reviews and things, a lot of educators are seeing it as middle grade and up. So, my first fan mail was from a nine-year-old girl, so it really is exciting to me that it seems to be accessible to people at a lot of different levels. KaeLyn RIch: My goal, in terms of the tone of the book was not to come across as your mom or even though I am a mom, or as like this older person that knows better how to do it, but just say, "Here are the tools that I was given. This is a very basic recipe for a cake, and I'm going to hand you this same recipe, but you may do something totally different with it. You can put your own frosting on it, you can add sprinkles to it. Maybe it's not a cake. Maybe it's actually a muffin or a cookie, and you're going to like totally reinvent it. But I just want you to have a place to start." Much like a, this is a very typically gendered thing, much like someone passes down a recipe through generations. I kind of want it to be that, like, "This is my basic cake recipe. You are going to lead us into the future, making it your own in so many ways." KaeLyn RIch: So that was really the goal. I think I've lost sight of the question, but that's fine. That was really the goal for me with the book in terms of making it accessible, making it inclusive, and really making it about, like trusting that girls already know. And already hold that knowledge in their bodies as young as middle school and even younger. They know that the world's unfair. And they know that it's affected them. And then giving them the tools to say like, "Okay, you want to do something about it. So how can I help you figure out what to do next?" Jolie Sheffer: Thank you both so much. I've enjoyed this conversation. Jolie Sheffer: Our producers for this podcast are Chris Cavera, Marco Mendoza, and Joseph Starks. Special thanks to the College of Arts and Sciences and the Center for Women and Gender Equity. Research assistance for this podcast was provided by ICS interns, Olivia Davis, [Strati Mustokayis 00:39:18], Melanie Miller, Alasia Parks, and Sarah Schaller.

James: Hi audience and listeners, this is James Kandasamy from Achieve Wealth through Value at Real Estate Investing podcasts, where we bring in a high quality commercial real estate operator to be interviewed. Last week we had Todd [00:19unclear] from Midwestern States. He's killing it in that area where he focuses a lot on buying multifamily in that area. And imagine he started buying Mobile Home Park and ski resorts and later on ended up in multifamily; so you want to check out that episode. This week we have Joseph Bramante from TRIAC real estate partners who are based out of Houston and they buy deals in Corpus Christi, Houston and Victoria. And Joseph owns and controls almost 600 units on his own and it's another 300 to 400 units as a fee manage. Hey Joseph, welcome to the show.  Joseph:       Thank you. Thank you. Thanks for having me. James:        So very happy to have you here and thanks for coming on the show. I want to go deep into what are the deals type that you're buying and can you give a brief introduction on when did you get started and the sequence of purchases that lead up to current 600 units and another three, 400 fee managed properties?  Joseph:       Yeah. So I got my start in 2011 I bought a 26 unit apartment complex. I was still working in corporate America. I was an engineer for Exxon at the time working overseas. I actually lived in Papua, New Guinea when I got my start. So we were living in a compound in Papua, New Guinea. Had more money than any 24 year old should have. And got the bright idea to buy multifamily and there's more to the story, but to keep it short, we decided to buy apartment complex and we found the property, bought it and did basically almost everything wrong that you could do on your first acquisition. And we spent the next three years fire learning how heavy value add multifamily works. The one good thing we did on my first deal was he bought it in a great location. It's really close to the Galleria and over a three year period, we lease the whole property down, did a $30,000 per unit renovation and at least it back up and doubled the rents, which my mentors at the time were telling me, sell the property, take a loss, you are not qualified to do this. And for the most part they were correct. But nonetheless we did it. We got double all of our money back over 200% returns. And obviously the mentors didn't really like that so much when I didn't take her advice and not only did it lose money, but doubled my money. And then that was kind of my flag in the sand to the rest of; I was at Parva, I joined a real estate group at that time between purchasing and selling, purchasing and refinancing that property, still own it today. And use that success and that track record as small as it was to raise capital and buy more value ideals. And over the next four years, we bought almost a deal per year. Sold one deal and was really just kind of laying the foundation for our owner management stuff. Because owner manager is really, [03:44unclear] is really involved and I know people would try to make it sound like it's really simple. And I see these guys that are growing these massive portfolios almost overnight. But there's a lot of foundation work that you have to build in order to really even grow that. I mean, there's a big difference between going from a hundred units to a thousand units and you look at the amount of managers and staff you've got to have just to run that back office. So for us, we've been just kind of going slow and methodical up until about 2016. And then at that point I formed my company Triarc. It was consistent of myself and my two partners, Carrie and Debra. These two ladies were, they have 30 years of prime manager experience each and they were the backbone to all of the properties that we had purchased prior. They were key in that lease down and lease up and the success of that first property. And really kind of taught me from a property management perspective what I can and cannot do with the property. And the good thing is that you hear everybody buying local.  So we're local and you're local in Austin, so I'm sure you see this all the time. You get these out of town buyers coming in and they're buying properties that everybody else who's local has passed on for a reason; and I'm sure the data might seem great, but there's a reason that nobody local is buying that property because they know that outside of the data there's the whole cultural and just what is that sub-market that will take years to turn. But anyway, they've helped me avoid a lot of pitfalls and most, like all the properties we bought except for one, which we've sold have been phenomenal properties. So anyway, 2016, my company, we merged together formed Triarc and then in 2019, just last year in January, we'd made the decision because we have all this expertise in property to go ahead and start growing the fee management. Because in 2016 we merged, they were a standalone property management company. They had over 2000 units and they had started as part of the merger process, started letting go a clients and we're going mostly owner managed. But then in 2019 as I mentioned, we decided, you know what, maybe that's the wrong path. Let's grow the fee managers, let's grow both from both ends and so just in the last 12...for an owner this month, and we took over another one in Lufkin last month. So we've had tremendous growth. We've got 250 units on the fee manage side that we're taking over. So we've decided we're going to grow the fee managed side and that way we've got plenty of fee income coming in and we're not going to be rushed on the owner management side. Because the worst thing you can do and you know, this is to have financial; it costs money to run a company and to have those financial constraints force you into buying a deal that maybe you don't want to buy or probably shouldn't be pressured into buying. But for us, on the fee managed side that's where as allowing us to grow Triarch exponentially faster and you're always going to be able to grow fee managed companies a lot faster than owner managed. James:        We're going very deep into that. But I want to get back to your beginning part itself. I mean, you gave us a lot of information here, so I want to really dissect it one by one. So you're originally from Papua, New Guinea? Joseph:       No, no, no, no, no, not from Papua. I was working in Papua, New Guinea. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, Google, Papua, New Guinea. You would know, it's an awesome place. You know, I lived there for two years working in a compound and it was basically like living inside of a national geographic magazine. Like everything you'd see in those magazines I saw; I saw people in tribal outfits and I saw bows and arrows and I saw tribal wars between one tribe and another. I saw some pretty nasty stuff as well. It's pretty gruesome stuff, but nonetheless it was a heck of an experience and certainly learned a lot as well working for Exxon. James:        Yeah. Oh, working for Exxon. Okay, good. Yeah, I mean, well I come from Malaysia, so I know near Borneo and I've been to Borneo and it's a lot of beautiful forests. Joseph:       My business manager was from Malaysia.  James:        Oh cool. Joseph:       Yeah, yeah. James:        Yeah. All that oil producing countries. So let me get into the timing of your start and the market that you started, right. You started in Houston. I believe even when I started in 2013 with one of my single family; Houston was like the top market. Right? I mean much, much better than Dallas. Right. I mean, right now it talks about Dallas and Austin, but at that time Houston was like the top market for past few years. And how was the situation when you're buying your first deal? I mean so you were working full time as an engineer in Exxon and then how did you make that transition to, Hey, let's buy multifamily. I know you said you had an investment club that you learned some things, but how was your mindset shift from being an employee to now I want to be into a real estate investor. Joseph:       Actually first, so I'm going to get to that question. But first though, so I told you I had a big announcement so I want to go and get the big announcement before, if that's okay because I know this story I'm about to tell you like the back of my hand, I've given it a couple of hundred times. But the big announcement for us, everybody knows, so we track real estate partners. It's actually two companies. It’s Triarc properties, which is our owner management side and Triarc Living, which is our fee management side. And then  effective today we're launching a third company, Triarc Construction which is going to be our renovation side of the business; as we're going to talk about, we've been pretty heavy on the value add side, we're pretty good at this. Right now we've got a 40,000 per unit renovation underway, which is just a monster renovation. And part of what we feel is missing in the market, especially when it comes to the construction side, is a kind of turnkey approach to multifamily renovation. You've got a lot of these operators who can see rightly so that there needs to be at renovation, some value add improvement. But they don't fully understand how to, I mean, aside from the physical calculation of what it's going to cost, they don't understand the execution side of, okay, I've calculated what it's going to cost, but there's this whole other side of, okay, now I've got to implement and execute it. And how do I do that? And so what we offer as far as a service from the construction side is not only can we build it for you and we can do the renovation but we're able to tie that with our management company. And so you've got a seamless communication between the team that's managing the property and a team that's renovating it so that you have the highest probability chance of a successful at your value add.  Because I've seen; my first deal, we lost $80,000 on the carried interest alone because we execute it poorly and yet we still made over 200% returns. So we were successful in spite of ourselves. But on deals these days that are so tight, you really have to have very good communication between the operating team and the renovating team. And those days and weeks that go in between your meetings, assuming that you're having them, can really make a big difference; if something is missed and if you don't have a more seamless communication it can really cost you a lot of money as far as the innovation. Triarch construction is strictly veered for the Houston market for now. So if anybody is out there doing renovations, definitely get in touch with us. So we're definitely excited to be rolling that and offering that service. So anyway, there's my big news.  James:        Oh, awesome. Thanks for the news. So let's get back to the question on 2011. Joseph:       So the big adjustment for me now, part of the backstory for me is I was working overseas and the best thing that ever happened to me was getting laid off from my job at Exxon and like six months after buying that first property because, well there's a saying that I've heard and we both know that the guy that came from, Mr. Del Walmsley, I'll give him credit where credit is due, but he used to tell me this thing that said what gets in the way of a good life is a great life. And I had had a really good life. And so I had this property that it wasn't really been paying attention to because my monthly income was huge. And so I just wasn't giving attention to it; anyway, lost that income. And so suddenly I started really paying attention to that complex and it wasn't doing so hot. So I took about six months off and all I did was I joined a real estate group, Lifestyles Unlimited, we can say good things or you can say bad things. But nonetheless I joined them and they did help me get over. They were a great, I would say stepping stone. I don't want to, I'm not endorsing anybody to join them now or I'm not saying don't join them. I'm just saying for me they were a good stepping stone. At the time, 2011 they didn't have all these podcasts, I had books and what got me to get into the industry was, since you asked, I just read books. I read six books and the first book I read were just contrasting single family versus multifamily. And the thesis of the book or the summary was single-family is great percentage wise will always kick ass compared to multifamily, but volume wise it's not there. So if you have the money, go straight to multifamily. I had the money, I went straight to multifamily. A couple more books, I read one on analysis and basically just self-taught myself Real estate or multifamily. Plus I'm an engineer by trade. I was managing about a billion dollars in costs for Exxon. So I was pretty good at this numbers thing. So I felt, and I was also 25, 24, 25. So I had little bit of a ego to me. I thought I was invincible. So I went and bought that first property, it was me and a friend; we went 50/50 on the deal. So how I got introduced, read books, got into it. And then what I realized was that I was like a master at the 30,000 foot level because I've read these books, but when you get down to the day to day of what's going on, I mean those books they didn't tell me how to do a due diligence, and I'm sure maybe there's books now that'll teach you. And I know for sure there's podcasts, there are so many resources now compared to when I got started. That, I mean you just, I feel like people these days, investors now have such a huge advantage to getting in the market but the only advantage that we had in 2011 was the housing crash had just happened. We were buying stuff, bought my first one at $25,000 a door, which is another reason why everybody thought that [15:52unclear] thousand per door renovation was crazy because I was spending more on the rehab that I did on the purchase price. Just imagine that and now it's worth over 130,000 a door. So it worked out well for me, but that's how I got in and then I actually didn't go right away. Nobody goes full real estate, you don't go 100% into multifamily on your first deal. As far as like, being able to sustain yourself especially for me, I was a high income earner and that's the hardest thing to replace a high income with multifamily, takes a long time versus and I'm not saying this to be insulting at all, so please, but if you're starting from a lower income, it's a lot easier to replace that lower income versus if you already have a good, strong six figure salary, that's going to be harder to replace that on a regular basis that you can depend on in multifamily, you got to buy a couple of deals.  And so what I do, I worked; I had a day job just like everybody else. I had to support myself for about another year bought two more deals and then refinanced the first. And then finally I had enough at least on the; when I refinanced and got double my money back from the first deal. Plus I had some residual ongoing cash flow from two deals that we just bought. That's when I made the decision, go ahead and exit, go full time because I had a pretty big reserve built up and I felt comfortable and we're on a good track. We're above...But I know some people are buying faster and slower. That's was just how we did it. James:        But even when you started, you started the deep value add, where deals that you had to put in $30,000 a door, $40,000 a door.  Joseph:       I don't want to pretend like, it wasn't intentional when I bought that first deal, it was supposed to be a three [17:54inaudible]. So that was the other side of the story.  James:        And also what was it you said? It was supposed to be three thousand? Joseph:       Three thousand, three zero, zero, zero.  James:        And then it went to 30,000? Joseph:       30,000. So I missed the mark by just a little bit there. That was my first deal... James:        Thanks for being honest because I think that's very important for... Joseph:       Absolutely. I think... James:        Because there's a huge chance of you making mistakes, no matter, you know, you have a mentor, no matter you have a club behind you can still make a mistake. Right?  Joseph:       The thing that worries me with everything, with the SCC 506C and all these, and making it so easy to raise money publicly as you got so many people were trying to fake the funk, so to speak, which is fine if you're applying for a job and you're trying to make your resume sound like you did more than you did, but here you're raising money. That's people's money that you could potentially lose. And that's not cool. And so I think with us, like we're very honest and say, yeah, I screwed up the first couple, the first deal and we were off on my third deal that we sold for almost a 200% return; I projected a 300% return. So I learned a lot in the way. It's very hard to get the connections right. And multifamily and you know this, because you're a CCIM. Multifamily is one of the hardest classes of real estate to underwrite, harder than office, harder than retail. Because you've got so many tenants [19:24unclear] parts. That's you should really do it and do it well. It's challenging. James:        Yeah. I think what you're saying is it's hard to underwrite and after that, execute the business plan based on the underwriting. Right? So... Joseph:       Yeah, oh yeah.  James:        But I want to really go into this. How did we have so much data between 3000 and 30,000 because I think it's a good learning that someone else can take in? So let's go deep into that. How did you think it was 3000 and how did it become $30,000 per door? Joseph:       Because our broker, I think he's retired right now. James:        He's safe now then. Joseph:       I don't want to call his name out. But anyway he was a crazy, crazy guy. Had like nine cats and was posting cat. He was literally posting cat, it was a weird thing. But anyway, on his broker memorandum said 3000 per door. So we're like, oh he would know he's a broker. Why would he lie to us? And I don't think he lied to us. I mean I don't think any broker lies to you. I think they just don't know. And so we put 3000 a door. We're living in Papua, New Guinea. We're 24 years old. What do we know? James:        Okay, got it. So you're bought it from out of country then, sight unseen? Joseph:       Sight unseen, I didn't see the property until two months after I owned it. James:        So you probably had too much money to put into this kind of deal without seeing it. Okay. I mean it's okay.  Joseph:       I bought that property like somebody would buy a rental house. It wasn't, I just knew. And the reason I bought it was because all my managers, all they talked about was like, oh, just either they did some vacation, they bought some hot stock or they bought real estate. So I wanted to kind of show them up and be like, I bought an apartment complex. James:        So, and how many units was that Joseph?  Joseph:       26 units.    James:        26 units. Okay.  Joseph:       25,000 a door.  James:        So how did you, 25,000 a door in 2011, which I think probably a market rate at that time in Houston, if I'm not mistaken. Joseph:       If I had a time machine I'd go back, things you don't know. Like who would have thought prices would have escalated this fast. And that's the other thing that worries me. Like since we're talking about us being honest with what's going on, I'd say equal parts of my success have been from underwriting and from just riding the market, they say a rising tide raises all ships. We've been on just the most phenomenal bull run of the real estate market as the cap rates have been getting compressed more and more. But now you're starting to see them kind of plateau. And so now if you want to get returns, you truly need to generate those returns through a proper execution of the investment. You're not going to be able to bank on cap rate compression when you exit five years from now, if anything you've got cap rate expansion, it's fighting against you. That makes it really hard to get returns these days. James:        Yeah. So coming back to this 3000 to $30,000 difference, so once you landed in Houston and you visited the property, is that when you realized that the cost is a lot or you just [22:33unclear]? Joseph:       No. So the realization, here's when the realization happened, we were four units into the rehab on 26 units. That puts us at like 85%... James:        And you had a third party property management company? Joseph:       My third party property manager, again, I'm bringing behind the ears. I don't know what I'm doing. I hired a single family property manager who was making his first attempt at multifamily on our deal. So we had the blind leading the blind. He didn't know what the heck he was doing. He was a bit kind of a conflict of interest because he kept trying to push his own construction company to do the rehab, which was a luxury construction company that did single family which was anyway, so he's doing this rehab, he is the property manager and the construction manager for what we're going on. Because again we're still living in Papua, New Guinea. So by the time I come back and realize what's going on, we're four units completely down to the studs. And then we are doing our AC permit because you got to do a permit to install ACs. And as part of that, oh actually no, I don't know if you needed to, anyway, he was trying to do everything by the book, which I'm not saying don't do it by the book, do it by the book. But obviously you want to try and save money if you can. So he was doing everything by the book. We did a permit. Part of that permit was environmental, which any real estate syndicator now knows you get an environmental, it's just a check the box thing. It wasn't for us, it wasn't required in our closing, we never did environmental, so it came, we did the environmental came back hot for asbestos. It's funny because it was basically like 30 days. We got notified the property had asbestos. I lost my job. And then in addition to that, the insurance that we had purchased was fraudulent insurance. So we didn't actually have insurance. So yeah, I was in a pretty bad spot.  And then that's when I joined the real estate group and met my partners and the solution to that situation, which is a kind of a rare situation. Well not rare, but sometimes you come into these situations where you can just throw money at the problem to fix it. And so that's what we did. We just, we're like, look, if we sell the property now that we know that it has asbestos and we're four units down, that we can't touch and bring them back online. So I'd have to sell it at 85% occupied. I'm going to take a loss. So I can either take a loss or I can roll the dice, do this massive 30,000 per year renovation because the neighbors behind me, the house values behind us were over almost a million bucks. So we were in a very affluent area. So we rolled the dice and I had my 401k from after my job at Exxon and cashed the whole thing out when all in on that deal. And did a lot of praying. We knew at that time though, I felt a lot more confident with what we were doing. We knew the numbers, we knew the market, it was just now, I was learning a lot on execution with everything that needs to happen for a major renovation. We're now doing our third major renovation where you're doing almost down to the studs and backups. So it's, yeah, I learned a lot on the first one. Second we did a phenomenal job. And this third one, we're just knocking it out of the park. James:        Got it. Well it's very interesting that the experience you went through on the first one, I'm sure it stuck with you on the next few deals because now you know you shouldn't do certain things. You must do certain process and checklist and make sure that you go to; was that a normal bank loan? Because you know, usually the [26:36unclear]? Joseph:       Man you're asking all kinds of great questions. Our bank was internet bank of USA. James:        Internet Bank of USA, I haven't heard about that. Joseph:       Yeah, we thought they were a joke bank. We're like, is this one of these scams? Because coincidentally there was a group called ABC Funding that was based out of London that was trying to get us to wire them money so they would, it's kind of like these Nigerian Prince things, very convincing. We almost did it. But we finally figured out they were a fraud. But you know, there's a lot of, you know, it's so easy to lose money in real estate. Everybody is trying to rip you off. So... James:        No, but who gave you the funding? I know there's some group out of London trying to get you money, but finally, who gave you the funding? Joseph:       We bought the property with Bank of Internet USA, which is also part of the story here. They had, banks annually will request what is your occupancy, your financials, what is your personal financials? And I just gotten the letter from them like a week before we closed on our refinance to pay them out and start a construction job. Because if we hadn't taken the actions we did at exactly the time we did, they would have known that your guarantor is unemployed with no income, your property is negative cash flowing and you've got asbestos and they probably would try to foreclose on me. Like we were like that close to being in a pickle. But anyway, the bank that did the refi and the rehab for us was a local bank. They're no longer around. They're called First Victoria. They were purchased by Prosperity Bank. James:        Got it. Got it. Wow. All the things that can go wrong went wrong in that deal I guess. Joseph:       Yeah, and that's why I see these guys that are trying to buy deals out of state, these heavy value add deals. And I'm like, it's, it's a lot of work. Like you've got to be there like the one we're doing right now, I was just there this morning. Like you've got to be there on a, if not every week, twice a week, just to keep tabs of what's going on. Especially in the beginning because in the beginning when you're doing your test units and you're trying to see how you want everything it gets pretty crazy. Because that's when you're still setting, you can set things on paper, but then you go from, okay, you've set your budgets too alright, let's actually get in there and tear the wall down. Let's see what's in there. Find any change orders; so we just closed on a 220 units last September. We purchased it for about 75 a door, 4.8 cap rate going in and we're spending almost 40,000 a unit on the rehab and we're going to exit at about an eight cap. So it's a short term deal, about four years in and out through this rehab, increased the rents about $450. James:        So how did you come up with the $40,000 rehab? That seems to be huge. Joseph:       $40,000?   James:        Yeah.  Joseph:       Yeah. Well for us, this deal was pretty simple in regards to coming up with the scope. Part of the challenge on a lot of deals is, okay, where am I going to spend the money to upgrade so that you're not overspending and you're not being wasteful and just spending money in an area doesn't do anything for the value. Because it's very easy to do that. You can buy all new doors on something doesn't mean you can increase the rent $100. So for us there was the neighboring property that had been renovated, it was just finishing its renovation. And they did the exact same thing. The building was identical; it's the same architect and everything. They were near identical twins. So it was like, when we sent our GC there. We said, okay, do that, copy that. So he went through, he came up with a scope to do that and that's how we came up with about $40,000 a year. James:        So $40,000 is including the exterior, I guess, right?  Joseph:       What's that? James:        It's including the exterior renovations?  Joseph:       Interior. Exterior. So high level, we've done all new roofs, replacing about half the ACs, all the windows, which is very expensive. All new plumbing. Also very expensive. Adding washer and dryers, gutting the kitchens, all new kitchens, all new appliances, all new floors. We are redoing the floor plan and the kitchen to add the washer and dryer. So we're knocking down, we've knocked down a wall, made the bedroom bigger. So we've completely changed the floor plan of about 50% of the units. We've got, because those are the ones we're in. Now when we get to the other 50% we'll see what we're going to do to those units. What else are we doing? James:        So yeah, that makes a lot more sense because you are doing growth. We are doing, changing the floor plan as well, right? So that makes a lot of sense. Joseph:       Redoing the office, we're actually also building two additional units. They got this giant, one of the properties, it's three properties, it's a portfolio of three and they're all in the same street. One of the three, it used to be unofficially used as a senior living. And so it had this warehouse type building that was a used I guess as the recreation room slash cafeteria. And now it's just vacant. It's just sitting there vacant. So we're going to, at the completion of our project, the last thing we're going to do is go into that building and gut it and create two units out of it from nothing. So that's going to be expensive addition about 50,000 per unit just for those.  James:        And what kind of financing are you doing on this? Is it like a [32:35unclear]?   Joseph:       So we've got bridge debt on it. We use a group called LaSalle; I think they're out of California, great group. They've been really good to us, so yeah.  James:        Got it. Yeah, that's like a huge change, $40,000 a door. So you need to be really skilled in controlling expense and making sure you get the value that you want. Joseph:       We've proven the up side already because again, the neighboring property, we actually, when we did our proforma, our rents we budget them at $100 below theirs. So just to be on the safe side and even that was a 2.2 equity, multiple 23% IRR. So if we actually hit their rents, it's going to be even higher than that. So it's going to be a very, very good project. So we had a lot of confidence going into it that we know the rehab, we know the scope and we know the rents. So then truly it's, we just kind of make sure we execute this amazingly. And we were off to a great start. Sorry I had to interrupt you. We were off to a great start, but then you never know what's going to happen. And so for us, on a morning and then by that evening, I don't know if you recall, Houston got this massive rain, it wasn't a hurricane, but it was a really heavy rain and anybody who's in the Houston area knows that it has an issue with flooding. So this property first of all, luckily we closed it, we put flood insurance on it. It didn't have it before, but we'd put it on just in case because it's Houston and you never know. I've had properties that are in a flood zone that didn't flood for Harvey and I've had ones that are not in a flood zone, that have got almost flooded. So anyway, we just go ahead and we put flood insurance on most properties we buy these days. We did on that one by the afternoon of when we closed, 22 units had about it inch to two inches of water in them on one of our properties. So we had to rip the sheet rock up to the studs, oh sorry, up 18 inches, vacate 22 units. So right out of the gate, you know, we had this plan, okay; we're going to start the rehab on January one. We're going to spend the next couple of months getting everything in order. We weren't able to do that. So in September when we closed, I think the 19th, the next day we're working on relocating [34:58unclear] help them out with their belongings and then stripping down the units. So the good news of all that, we did get a claim out of it. We've got paid really well on those units, so those units will actually be profitable right out of the gate, extra contingency so to speak. James:        So let's say, I mean out of this $40,000 per door, a budget that you have for this latest deal. Let's say your budget got cut into half, $20,000 a door, right? For this 220 units deal, what would you prioritize in terms of value add? I'm trying to find out what is the most valuable value add that you want to do to at least come back to [35:44unclear] Joseph:       So part of the reason why it was so expensive is that we had so many items that we're deferred with a lot of deferred maintenance. And the problem with deferred maintenance is it doesn't, there's no value there. You're resident, like there's no value and residents are not going to pay you because the roof is new. They should but they're not going to. So for us we had, I don't have the figures, but off the top of my head, I know like the roof was about a thousand a unit. Actually, hold on, let me pull up. I know the plumbing was about 5,000 a unit. And plumbing people will say, oh, there's no value in plumbing. And that's why nobody ever does it. But there is value, if you want somebody to move out quickly then put them in a unit that has very low water pressure and I can almost guarantee they're not going to renew their lease because if they can't take a shower in the morning, it could be the most beautiful unit that they ever seen. But if they can't take a shower in the morning, they're not going to renew. So for the roofs, yeah, we were like 850 a unit on the roots and so we had all these different items that made up that. So that property, I couldn't truly tell you, if I only had $20,000, I wouldn't have bought, I only had 20,000 per unit. I wouldn't have bought the property. James:        So let's say you already buy it and now you are stuck with it. Now you have $20,000... Joseph:       The only way that that property works at that price, is you go big, you got to do a massive renovation. Otherwise I would've had to pay $20,000 less per unit to make it work.  James:        Okay. Interesting. And what about the interior unit rehab? What are the rehab that usually prioritize to get the highest rent bump? Joseph:       So for the interior, let me think, kitchens are big, kitchens sell and we were actually playing around with this one. We're trying to do a combination of like a, I don't know if you've seen convection microwave ovens because we've got some efficiency units. And so we've got like six of them that instead of putting a full appliance set that we're going to go and put just a microwave convention oven, so that two burner stove just a two burner glass top deal. And then the fridge and now that'll be it. They won't have any oven; they'll just have that microwave that also has convection. And so that's what we're playing with there. But I guess, I think again, kitchens are huge, having really good fixtures and a good design. And so everything flows. We've got a professional designer that we're using for the whole thing. We're not doing any of it or ourselves and having all of that kind of flow and have a good look to it as well. So I think if you spend money on the kitchens, you'll be okay because that's where they're at a lot of the time. People spend a lot of time in the kitchen. And then bathrooms as well. So we're doing all new bathrooms, new tile surrounds, and new tubs. And then also for us, one that's going to really hold you back on the money is really tried to do add washer and dryers, especially when you're going to these new units. And for us, like if you don't have the space like we have 650 square feet on most of these one bedrooms we're doing and what we're doing is a stackable front loader. Front loaders are more expensive. Yes. But we're appealing to a higher profile. Our rents are hold on; I'll tell you what the price per square foot is on them. They are $1.70, so we're getting crazy high rents. And so part of our pitch is appliances. We've got really nice appliances as well. And that includes the washer and dryer. We're not giving them some cheap, front some cheap top loader with the agitator in the middle of that destroys your clothes; people like to have nice appliances. So I think make sure you get washer and dryer and if you don't have space, just be aware that you can stack front loader on top of each other and it takes up next to nothing. James:        Got it. So your strategy is to really spend a lot of money per door and get the highest maximum rent that you can. Joseph:       It's not really a strategy. I mean, it's just a skill set that we know how to do; it's just like knowing what techniques you need to apply on a certain property given the scenario in order to make it successful. If I could have had a 200% return and spent much less then I would have spent much less. I'm not recommending that everybody go and spend $40,000 a unit on every property. I think that's, I was telling our new partner on the construction side, we may never see a $40,000 per unit property again. I mean, I never thought I'd see a $30,000 per unit and that's been the case. Most of our deals have been $10,000 per unit and less. I would say because there's so much education out there from like people like yourself and who owners know now that they can resurface the counters, they can redo the floors, they can do a lot of this. And so it's very rare that you're going to pick up a property that's untouched. And that was part of the story on this one. It was untouched, which it really shouldn't have been considering who the previous owner was. It really should have been previously renovated. But that's another story. James:        Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean I've done like $10,000 per unit, per door renovation. And I thought that was a lot because we had like a stainless steel, we had crown molding. We had exterior, interior painting. Really like all, I mean not a new roof, but everything else was changed. It looks really, really nice and I just can't imagine $40,000. Joseph:       You find value in the crown molding? James:        Not anymore. I think in the beginning we had the budget, we really liked the way it looks, but I don't think it's really catered for. Joseph:       Yeah, we don't do it. One of the things we're doing here that's again, it's expensive, but we're scraping off the popcorn ceiling. So you've got smooth ceilings. It's the modern look. We're also going with black windows, we had $150,000 change order because we went from when we went from white vinyl windows to black, now we can all agree that material wise there was zero additional costs that that vendor incurred. Other than that, they're now black and black is more trendy now and popular. So now they increased the price 150 grand. But we installed several of them now and they look amazing. James:        I have never seen a black window.  Joseph:       Ah, super cool.  James:        You must be a new trendsetter. So I need to come and visit your property. Joseph:       When you drive by the property you look, you can't help but notice. I feel like vinyl windows, the white ones, they're nice. And if that's what you can afford, great. But it's going to date your property to an older style. And you know, with what we were doing, it's all about style. And so we had to kind of go the extra mile and be the coolest kind of hip property. We've rebranded the whole thing. It was Candlelight. Now it's called the Melrose. I go in for this kind of South beach kind of, not South beach. What do you call it? The California kind of beach, Laguna Beach kind of theme. So it's going to be really cool. Palm Springs. James:        And what is the price difference between the black and the white? Joseph:       It was about 150 grand across 220 units. James:        Okay. Okay. Do you know like price per window difference? Joseph:       Not off the top of my head. James:        Okay. Okay. That's fine. That's fine. Yeah, it's interesting. I mean I that's something new that I've never seen Joseph:       Because it's going to depend on some units have more windows than others, but I can just average it. You just do one 150 over 220 units wherever that comes out to. James:        Okay. Joseph why don't you tell our audience how to get hold of you and your company? Joseph:       Yes. So the best way is just shoot an email to info@triarcrep, T. R. I. A. R. C. R. E. P, dot com. They can also call us my direct line (281) 836-4181. Those are the best kind of ways to get in touch with them. You can also check out our website triarchrep.com, or we just moved into our first office space, which is a good feeling, a good milestone for anybody when they are growing their company. We just moved into 3,500 square feet. So we're here in Houston, we're at 290 and mangoma that intersection. So if you're an area, shoot me an email, I'd love to meet with you and we can show you our team and show you some of our properties. James:        Awesome. Awesome. Thanks for coming on the show. You added a lot of value in terms of deep value and renovations, one of the things that you guys are doing, and this is really the value, the one you guys are doing. And I just love the value add because you make a lot of money if you execute it right, and if you turn it around.  Joseph:       You can lose a lot of money too if you do it wrong.  James:        That's what I'm saying, if you execute it right, right. You need a really strong operator. To really manage the expenses, the contractor management, the turnaround process, the rent increase. That's a lot more steps than buying the cookie cutter value add deals. Right?  Joseph:       Yeah. It's not like, yeah, because most cookie cutter dealers you can manage just with your operations team turning units when as they come available. I mean, we actually have a full blown schedule for this thing that we got developed, so it's, yeah, it's a major project. Reminds me of, it gives me flashbacks of working for Exxon. We're building that project; we're approaching it with the same mentality, the same project management heavy approach.  James:        Got it. Got it. Got it. Well, thanks for coming on and I'm, you know, talk to you soon.  Joseph:       Alright. See you James. Bye.

After a devastating breakup, broadcast journalist Tamara decides to do something a little different for her 31st birthday: 31 dates in 31 days. But what starts as a fun blogging experiment quickly turns into big news and an even bigger spiritual eye-opener than Tamara initially assumed as she discovers more about who she is and how God sees the potential in all of us. SHOW NOTES This episode of This Is The Gospel is sponsored by GOSPEL DAY BY DAY. To find pictures and videos, please visit LDSliving.com/thisisthegospel TRANSCRIPT KaRyn Lay  0:04   Welcome to This Is The Gospel - an LDS living podcasts where we feature real stories from real people who are practicing and living their faith everyday. I'm your host KaRyn Lay.  A few years ago LDS Living made a video series called, "Love Lessons." You may have seen them. We invited three couples who had collectively been married over 125 years to share their well- earned wisdom about life in the trenches of love and faith. I had just hit five years of marriage myself and was quickly learning that there was still so much I didn't know about this business of tying your life together with another person. I was so grateful to hear these honest stories of work and sacrifice and frankly, longevity. We made four videos with those couples, including the video of our friends, Jim and Lyndia and they are a delight. So, to kick off our theme today, which... we sort of stole from that video series, we thought it was only fair that we share the audio from the compilation video that features Vern and his wife, Myumi, Bonnie and her husband Bruce, and our buddies Jim and Lyndia. Bonnie  1:19   We've been married for 51 years.  Lyndia  1:22   54 years Vern  1:23   we're celebrating our 25th wedding anniversary this year. Friday the 13th turned out to be the luckiest day of my life.  Bonnie  1:30   I think what I love the most about Bruce is he's very kind.  Jim  1:35   She's a good cook Vern  1:36   Serene Lyndia  1:40   He is a very compassionate person.  Bruce  1:41   She is truly the person I always wanted to be. Vern  1:47   She is the epitome of serenity. Myumi  1:51   That's not.... Lyndia  1:51   One surprise to me about marriage after all these years is what  a joy it is at this stage. Bruce  1:56   I didn't know that it would be that wonderful again, As it was, you know, before we had all these little screaming Mimi's Bonnie  2:04   Well, it's not easy. And if anybody thinks that you're going to be on your honeymoon for 51 years, It's ridiculous. Jim  2:11   Sometime the tunnel's pretty long,  Lyndia  2:14   and dark. Well, it has been an enjoyable challenge. Because I've been introduced into a culture that I was just totally ignorant of. Bruce  2:23   It was very hard for her, I know that. What hurt so much? Bonnie  2:27   You! I think I had to been like in my 30s or early 40s. And I thought, this is it? This isn't....This isn't fun. Lyndia  2:38   It didn't matter to me that Jim wasn't a member of the church because I loved him very much. And I thought if I only live with him for this time only, then that was what I would be happy with. But a couple years later, when our children started to come along, I realized that was not true. That I wanted to be with my children and him forever,  Jim  2:55   Really, the only reason it worked in those early years... We both loved the Lord. And we taught our children to love the Lord,  Bonnie  3:05   The secret to anything I think, is holding to the rod. If you hold to the rod, and don't give up, when things are hard, there's always a way through. President Hinckley always said it  - that that this will pass and that things will get better and things always do get better. Lyndia  3:25   So you have to be patient and loving and see where it goes. Bruce  3:29   Yeah,  Bonnie  3:30   you're gonna have ups and downs and but it's worth it.  You cannot change someone to fit the mold you want them to be. Myumi  3:38   I just respect his space and he respect my space. I love him the way he is. Vern  3:45   Be sure to buy two tubes of toothpaste. Bonnie  3:50   I will say you are the love of my life. And I'm so grateful that we have stuck it out this long and I see us together another gazillion or Google? Do you say Google now? Jim  4:05   she's my babe. Bruce  4:08   And I love you. And I love the fact that I'm going to have you by my side forever. Lyndia  4:13   I love him so much. love being with him. Bonnie  4:22   How could you not kiss?  Bruce  4:24   Yeah. KaRyn Lay  4:34   You'll have to watch the videos to see those really adorable little smooches that you heard at the end of the audio. And we'll have that,  as well as each individual couple's video in our show notes at LDSliving.com/thisisthegospel . Really, if you're looking for something fun to celebrate the Spirit of St Valentine - This is it. You know, one of the things that I love most about the Love Lessons videos is that they represent the end result of a lifetime of learning about the true nature of love. Each of those couples paid the price to sit on that couch and dish about what love looks like for them.  Well, in today's episode, we have one story about someone at the beginning of that journey, who decided that in order to learn her lessons well, she needed to take an unconventional approach to the world of dating. And whether you are well seasoned in your own understanding of Christ -like love or struggling to make sense of something that sometimes feels like nonsense, Tamara's experienced will probably ring more than a few bells. Here's Tamara. Tamara  5:35   You know, some people would say I'm kind of living this Hollywood love story, because of the way that things played out or the ending or...well, I happen to actually live in Hollywood and work in Hollywood as well. But, I think it's more of this Hollywood love story because I honestly did not anticipate going into this with any expectations. Isn't that the best kind of story?  So, let's go back to New York in 2009. That's when this all started. Before that, I'd gone through two major breakups. You know, those heart heartbreaking types of breakups where it's like, you don't really care if you collapse into a ball of tears in public. You just aren't sure things are ever going to be mended again. And you start questioning yourself, you know, what am I doing wrong? And ... am I lovable? You know all these terrible things that we start to ask ourselves, and that was where I was, and my 31st birthday was coming up.  I was in a Singles Ward, and being in a singles ward and turning 31 means that you no longer go to the singles ward. Instead you go to a family word, and that was tough for me. I'd been in a singles ward since I joined the church in my early 20s. And so leaving a singles Ward was a big deal to me. It was leaving my friends. It was leaving my spiritual connections and kind of truthfully felt like I was a failure, because I was still single. I know that sounds terrible to say, but I did. I remember when I was 21 years old meeting a woman who was 28, who was still single in my ward and thinking, "Ah, how sad."  And then I was 31 and single, and thought, "it's not terrible." But I did feel like I didn't get it at this point... that I didn't understand dating. I wanted to learn something, I wanted to figure out what I needed to do to improve myself.  So I decided that it was time for me to just go back to the very basics of dating. And for me, that was first dates. It had been a long time since I'd just kind of dated I would go out on a first date, and then think. "it's going to be a long time until I have another first date. I should invest in as much in this person as I can right now." And I would decide that I was their girlfriend. They were my boyfriend. And probably way too soon. I decided I needed to just start over and go back to trying to develop friendships with people. I'm a TV news producer, I like to think of things in terms of projects. So I turned this into a little bit of a project. For my 31st birthday, I thought 30...31... 31 dates in 31 days. That's 31 days straight in a row of going out every night with a new guy. I kind of came up with a set of rules. The first 30 dates, I decided, would be a first date, and I would blog about it along the way. I wasn't intending on dating these guys much less marrying them, so they didn't have to meet any of my past list requirements. But I would go out with somebody as long as they didn't give me the creepy serial killer vibe. Basically, I'd go out with anybody who would agree to go out with me You know, I would make sure to do something that wasn't just like, a sit down dinner where it felt like I was like, interviewing the person in front of me. I definitely didn't want to do just your dinner and a movie for 31 days straight. I wanted it to be something more as a way to explore my city around me. And I kind of figured, if the guy and I did not have as much fun of a time  as we wanted, then at least we'd enjoy the scenery a little bit. I wanted to make sure that the date lasted at least 31 minutes. So you couldn't just walk up and say, "Hi, nice to meet you." and then bail. You had to start investing some time. It had to be in a public place. I put a price tag on it. I decided that if I were going to spend a month trying to invest in learning about myself and learning about men, I kind of looked at this a little bit of like my master's class in men. And just like any class, you should be willing to pay for it. So I set a budget of $31 a date And I had a secret rule for myself, no kissing any of these guys.  The 31st date, I decided, would be a second date. One of the guys that I'd met from the first 30 days. I'd hold a poll on my blog... people would help me decide who I would go out with on that second date. And date number 31 would occur on Valentine's Day.  I was afraid of a few things with this. I was afraid of not making it to the end. I was afraid that I would be exhausted. I was kind of afraid of what I would find out about myself. Because I wasn't sure. Like, am I really just not dateable? or I don't know. I had no idea what I would find out. I mean, I I was afraid that I probably wouldn't get anybody to go out with me. I was afraid that I wouldn't be able to get get 30 guys to go out with me. You know, that's a lot. I had maybe total on a good year, three first dates. You know, I'd have like two days in the summer and a bonus date in the winter. So there's no way that I was thinking 30 new guys would be realistic. I wasn't going into this thinking, "I'm going to find a boyfriend." In fact, that wasn't my goal at all. You know, I had realized maybe a year before that I really was afraid of getting married. In fact, I remember saying that out loud. "I don't want to get married." So crushing. Saying it out loud. It also felt true. For some reason marriage equalled being trapped. And I don't know, that just seemed scary to me. It seemed...to me, it felt like I wouldn't be able to really be happy or do the things that I wanted to do. And I thought, "Gosh, is that really how I look at marriage? Oh, who who would want that?" If that's the way I look at marriage. I thought, "Finally I've admitted the truth." Kind of felt like I had been dating with this goal of getting married and then all of a sudden I thought, "I don't want to get married. Well, then why am I doing this whole thing?" I wanted to make sure that I was living life on my terms, and with a full connection to Heavenly Father. I wanted to change myself. And I wanted to walk away learning something and having become...having... I wanted to walk away having a greater sense of who I was. I had asked my friend Marcus for a blessing before this began. I figured if I were going into this with my eyes and my arms and my heart wide open, I definitely needed some spiritual support. So, I asked Marcus for a blessing, and it gave me comfort but what it said in the blessing -- he told me that I was going to learn more lessons in this than I realized and that this was going to affect more people than just myself. So I felt as if I had a bigger responsibility than just going in this to have fun and date people.  So, in the beginning of the project, I only had three dates set up. Most of the guys were met either through internet hookups, through friend meetups, friends of friends of friends were most of the guys who I'd met. There were there were a handful of guys who had gone to church -- who were members of the Church of  Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, but most of the guys were not guys from church.  My first date was with this guy, Rob, who's a friend of a friend, and, you know, not necessarily the type of guy that I could see myself fitting into his world in... in a few ways. He was from Long Island. He has a thick Long Island accent, and he wrote a motorcycle and he was like a guy's guy. He was the kind of guy who still hung out with guys from his childhood, and was best buds with them... really cool...Like, just dude's dude. By the end of the date, I could see myself riding on the back of his motorcycle, with my hair blowing in the wind and thinking  just how glorious life would be with Rob. And I realized something about myself in that moment -- that I had developed this habit of quickly imagining myself into the future with a guy who I'd found interesting, and I could see how I would quickly fall for these guys. But I didn't have time to really fall for Rob, because I had to go out with Joel the day after. This could actually be good for me and maybe it would help break my first bad habit of falling too quickly.  Date number four was with Ryan. Ryan had just moved to the city from a really small town in Michigan, and I lived in Harlem. And I thought, "let's go walk around Harlem to show him a place that's not like his small town where he's from." And we went to one of those classic Harlem churches that you see about in the movies, gigantic tall ceilings and the singing and the clapping is reverberating throughout the entire room. And we were clapping and singing. And there was a point when one of the people up front asked for people to stand up and testify. And Ryan stood up, and he testified. And he said, "I'm so glad that I came to this church today... never felt more welcome." And everyone said, "Amen." We walked out. I could tell that Ryan was being genuine. Like,there was something about him. And I asked him, "What is it that's happened in your life? Like, what is it that makes you just really feel deeply?" He tells me that when he was seven or eight years old, he was sitting in the second row in their family's van. And back then, people didn't really wear seatbelts. It was one of those seats that was like, just a long bench. And he had his elbows up and his fists under his chin, leaning forward talking to his mom in the driver's seat. Right as that happens, she hits a patch of ice. Ryan goes flying through the windshield. He was in a coma for several months. He had to learn how to walk and speak all over again. He missed pretty much that entire year of school. And he said ever since then, he's realized how precious life is. I could tell. I could tell he didn't take any day for granted. He didn't take anything for granted. And that's when I learned my second big lesson of this project. That there was something special about him. And I realized that there was something special about Ryan, there's probably something special about each of these guys that I was going to meet. So that was my assignment for myself. On every single date, I would ask myself, "what makes this person so special?" And I started to realize, as dates went on, and on, and on and on and on, each person that I met, had something different and remarkable about them. I realized I needed to treat all of these guys with respect, and be extremely open minded. In fact, I started to appreciate more people around me, not just the guys that I was going out on dates with, but I was appreciating every single person and realized that everyone was special.  I mean, I remember sitting on the subway and looking at other people and thinking, "Heavenly Father loves them just as much as he loves the rest of us. Now, typically, before this happened, I would think of the gift of discernment in terms of the gift of having the ability to judge well, right? or make a decision, but I ran across this definition, it says this, quote, "to understand or know something through the power of the Spirit." And then it goes on to say, "it includes perceiving the true character of people." That was what was happening. And I started to feel as if I could really see what made these guys so special. I felt like I had a glimpse of how Heavenly Father saw and that he really loved them. And if he sees all these guys that I'm going out with as special in some way, then he must see me that way too. was the first time that I really started to feel the way that Heavenly Father saw me. I thought it was pretty open minded before and that I, you know, gave a lot of people a chance and was friends with all sorts of different people. Butthis really changed the way that I looked at people. So a lot of times, I hear a lot of people go, "what was the worst date?" Oh, I hate the question. Having a positive attitude, and thinking about what makes a guy so special makes it so that you don't have a lot of bad dates. Having said that, date number 21 was with Derek. And I thought Derek and I had so much in common. We were both from Northern Virginia. And, you know, we kind of like jived well over email before meeting in person. But when I met him in person, he was so cold to me. He just gave me the cold shoulder. I would ask him anything about himself and he would give me one word answers. And it happened to be the date when I had a photographer from the New York Post following me to show how great my dates are going. Oh, it was so terrible. You know, any other day, I would probably think he was handsome, but he was being so short with me. And I thought, "this guy is super rude and nothing is special about him."  So we decided to walk about 10 blocks to go play billiards and I'm freezing and I'm holding my jacket in tight and I'm looking back at the photographer with my eyes rolling of "Can you believe this guy?" And just thinking how terrible this date is... and I say a prayer to myself. And the prayer was simple. It was this. "Heavenly Father, please help me see the good in this guy." Tamara  20:24   And I look up to him, and I think, "that beard's actually pretty cool." Tamara  20:33   I'm thinking he is really... handsome and, you know, just kind of getting him and he starts to open up to me. And then he tells me about how he has run an Iron Man. I was like, "An Iron Man? That's insane! I mean, that's a full- on marathon. 26.2 miles and then you're swimming like an entire ocean. And then you're cycling." I was like, "That is amazing." I said, "Did you love it?" And he says, "No, I hated it." I was like, "Oh, okay." And he said, "so I decided to do another one." What? Why would you do a second Iron Man, if you hated the first one, and he said, "Well, all of my friends told me that I was going to love it so much. And since I hated the first one, I figured I needed to give it another shot." You know, what endurance! I thought this guy was crazy in the best of ways. And we sat and laugh together. And he says, "Have all of your dates been this good?!" Tamara  21:42   And I said, " Well, no, they don't all start out great." Thinking..."Did he miss the entire first hour that we were together?" He said something like, "yeah, I guess I wasn't that warm when we first met today." And I said, "Yeah, what was up with that?" And he goes, "Well, I read your blog." And I said, "Well, what was on... What was on my blog that made you think that this wasn't going to be a good time?" He says, "You went out with all these great, guys. I don't know how you did it. But you found the best guys in New York City it seems like. How can I keep up with that?" I was like, "Derek, are you kidding me? You're amazing. You completed two Ironman competitions, just because... Because you thought, 'Hey, why don't I try that?'" I mean, he was one of the best guys in New York too, but I probably would have missed it had it not been for this project.  Once I started writing about each date, I think people realized, Hey, I'm actually in this for fun - that I wasn't going to be so catty about things. I'm not trying to like, write about, Oh, you know, how terrible this first date was, and I think that helped get more guys to come. And lots of guys were like, "Hey, I'm totally down for that. Let's just go and check out the city." So some guys would read my blog and they'd write me. But most of my dates were friends of friends or friends of friends, friends,  So, crushes. I actually started to develop a lot of crushes. Of course, Derek, you know, who I thought I hated? was one of them. I had crushes on probably a third of the guys. And one of them, you know, was like, "Hey, can we go out on another date?" and I was like, "Well, I happen to be dating a few dozen other guys right now. So maybe after the project, I can go out on a date." But, I just didn't have time. I was working full time during the day, going out on dates right after that, coming home and blogging. And then I still had to maintain the relationships with the guys who I'd already met and try and set up dates for guys in the future. So I had packed days. I was exhausted. Date 14, I wasn't sure that I was going to survive. I was so tired. Dating is tough work. There were a handful who I kept in touch with regularly because I thought I might want to go out with them again after the project. And if they didn't want to go out with me, I realized I actually was okay with that. I had fun with just having a crush on them. I didn't need to have them like me back. That was huge for me. I wasn't crushed by my crushes. So my last few dates come and I needed to figure out who I was going to go out on a second date. But 31st date was a little different. It was Valentine's Day. I wanted it to be big. I blew my budget for it. So I got tickets to a Broadway show. And I was going to pay for a nice dinner. And not only that, but I was going to go on to national television -- "Good Morning America", and "Fox and Friends" and talk about who I'd picked. I was working at "Good Morning America" at the time and, you know, my co-workers were really excited about it. So, they were also going to follow me to dinner for the date that night, and a few other news outlets picked up on it as well. And so this had become bigger than I had imagined. Just like Marcus had told me in my blessing before. So, I reached out to every single one of the guys and I said, "Okay, I would love to go out again with you guys." It was kind of funny saying that to 30 guys, "I want to go out with you again." I told them how much national attention this had been getting and if they weren't into it, then that's fine. I would just hopefully go out on another date with them after the project. So most of the guys were interested in going out with me for the 31st day and thought that that would be fun. Not all of them, most of them, and some of them said, "Not interested, but I'll see you after your 31st date."   I gathered a lot blog readers over this time, which was funny. I thought only my mom and maybe like a handful of my friends would read this. And I said, "Okay, guys, it's time. We're going to figure out who my Valentine's Day date is. Who is date number 31?" And they would get 50% of the vote, and then I would get the other 50%. So I ran the poll with all the guys who were interested in going on national television and having video recorded of their date with me. I was sitting up late that night, my friend Rachel had come over, and we're seeing all the poll numbers come in, and the polls closed right around midnight, and it's down to two guys. And I'm trying to figure out who to go out with, and I say "This one guy. I could see myself dating him, maybe even being in a relationship with him and having a lot of fun. But this other guy, I could really see myself marrying someday." And Rachel says, "Well, there you go then." And I'm like, "What are you talking about?" And she says, "Look, these last 30 days have been so great for you. You have gotten what you wanted. Like, you figured out a lot about yourself. You saw the good in people and realized what makes them so special." She said, "Well, what's Heavenly Father's other purpose in dating? If you think that there might be something there with this guy, then go out with him." And so I did.  And a year later, we got married. And I cannot believe that that is like, my real story. That this whole project to figure out myself and what I was doing, quote unquote, "wrong", turned into this amazing ending that I truly didn't expect. And it's not just because I got married and it's this, you know, happy ending. It's a happy ending because I found love. I found true love, Heavenly Father's love -- the way that he loves all of us. When I realized that I didn't want to get married, that was information that I could work with. I had to redefine, you know, at 30 - 31 years old, what marriage would look like. I thought, "Well, if I were to get married, then what would it have to look like for me to actually want to get married?" Being able to meet one guy and then another guy and then another guy and another guy -- It was pretty easy for me to kind of figure out "Yeah, this is the kind of guy who I could see myself in a relationship with." You know. So it's not like this is the like, perfect formula for everybody to find love. You don't need to go out on a date every day for a month to figure that out. I sure hope that Heavenly Father teaches us each that lesson  in his own different way. This, this just happened to be the way that I needed to learn it. You know, I truly believe that I was ready to learn something about myself and learn something about dating. And that Heavenly Father was probably like, "thank goodness! She's finally opening herself up to let me be in charge of this, like, move over a girl." And I really believe that when we give Heavenly Father the room to teach us well, He will show us lessons and a life way better than we ever could have imagined. He continues to show that to me. So, life is a little different now. You know, that was 11 years ago, and we just had our 10 year wedding anniversary. We just had our third baby girl, and life is pretty fun. It's really simple but It's really fun. It's funny. because I think when they first hear how we met, sometimes people probably think that we like live life like that all the time. But we have our favorite TV shows that we sit and watch after the girls go to bed. You know, we do swim class on Saturday mornings. Life is simple, and it's good. It's better than good. It's, it's great. It's the good stuff.  There's a copy of my book, sitting in our living room. And, you know, the girls, they see this copy, and it's just, you know, a piece of our living room. And I think someday when they're old enough to read it, or to ask me about how we met, the lessons that I teach them are probably the same simple lessons that I learned. That I not only got to meet your dad through this, but I got to meet some pretty incredible people. And I learned how Heavenly Father loves each of us for who we really are. And that he loves them that way too. KaRyn Lay  31:03   That was Tamara Duricka Johnson and her blog, "31 Dates in 31 Days" is still up. Although it's not really being upDATED these days.  Get it? updated?  Get it? Anyway, any date that she would write about now would include her husband Evan, and those three sweet girls who call her mama. Tam and I have been friends since our early 20s. we bonded over our displacement as two East Coast girls living in the rainy rainy jungles of Portland, Oregon. She has always been a go- getter. But when she started this ambitious and exhausting project, I think all of us who knew and loved her realized that we were watching something really unique unfold. Like Derek, also known as date number 21, Tamara was going after the things that she wanted. It wasn't an Iron Man race, but it was a race nonetheless. The difference was that the prize at the end of this grueling course was a deeper knowledge of the kind of love that can actually make a difference in our lives. And really, it's the kind of love that can change the world.  Look, I don't mean to be dramatic, but it's dramatic. When Tamara allowed herself to access God's perspective on the men that she was dating, a spiritual gift that I like to call divine empathy, she saw them differently. And then she treated them differently. Sometimes they acted differently because of it, and sometimes they didn't. But that kind of doesn't matter. Because in the process of seeing the Divinity in them, Tamara came to understand who she was in relationship to God's love more clearly. And because of that, she was changed forever. I think it's important to note that Tamara had to ask for it. She had to invite Heavenly Father to gift her with his perspective as she practice divine empathy. But when it was given to her, she acknowledged it and didn't hesitate to pass it around... to share the love.  Remember that moment on the train from her story when she looked around and saw every person as worthy of God's love? Well, I think that's the definition of what the prophet Nephi described in fourth Nephi chapter one verses 15 and 16, when he wrote, "and it came to pass, that there was no contention in the land because of the love of God, which did dwell in the hearts of the people." I love the idea of love dwelling in our hearts. It means that love lives there, that it's taken up residency and it's settled in, it's become part of the cycles of the blood beating in and out of our true center. And according to ni fi, that dwelling love has the power to calm the envying, the strife and the tumbled so that there could not be as Nephi wrote, "a happier people among all the people who had been created by the hand of God." Isn't that dramatic? What would change in our world -- the small one that swirls around us and the big one that twists and turns around the Sun every day --If we, as a people could find space in our hearts for the love of God to dwell. Well, whether we are seeking a committed marriage relationship with another human being, or seeking a committed covenant relationship with the Savior of our souls, that power of peace that comes from asking for the perspective of divine empathy, and then offering our hearts as a dwelling place for pure love, well, that's worth every 31 day sprint, and every exhausting effort that we take to get there. Those love lessons are the ones that will change the world. That's it for this episode of This Is The Gospel. Thank you to all of our friends who are part of the Love Lessons video series. Shout out to the Knowltons, brave and true and especially to our storyteller Tamara for sharing her war stories and her lessons in love with us. We'll have links to all the videos and Tamara's book and blog as well as a transcript of this episode in our show notes at LDS living.com/thisisthegospel. Hey, it's Valentine's Day. So if you have a minute to tell us what you LOVE about this podcast, we'd love to hear it. Please go to iTunes and leave us a review. If you don't know how to do that. Find us on Instagram @thisisthegospel_podcast, where we will have a story in our highlights that will show you how to leave a review. Every review helps us to spread the love of faith filled stories that really matter. Speaking of good stories, all of the stories on this podcast are true and accurate as affirmed by our storytellers. If you have a story to share about Living the Gospel of Jesus Christ, call our pitch line and leave us a pitch. We often find many of our stories from the pitch line and we love to hear how the gospel has blessed your life. Give us a call at 515-519-6179 and pitch your story in three minutes or less. This episode was produced and edited by me KaRyn Lay with additional story producing and editing by Skyler Brunner. He's the genius behind the love lessons videos. It was scored, mixed and mastered by mix at six studios and our executive producer is Erin Hallstrom. You can find past episodes of this podcast and the other LDS living podcasts at LDSliving.com/podcasts. Happy Valentine's Day! Transcribed by https://otter.ai

It's rare that I find someone else whose advice on freelancing I really trust. But that's not the case for my guest today. Because it's very easy to take and trust her advice. My guest today is Abbi Perets. She wants moms to know you don’t have to choose between kids and career. She's the coach and mentor moms turn to when they're looking to break into freelance writing and earn great money from home on their own terms. She combines nearly 20 years of experience freelancing for some of the world's biggest companies with first hand knowledge, having five kids of her own, including one with special needs. She understands the unique challenges moms face every day and has created programs specifically tailored to meet those challenges and empower moms all over the world to have it all. And importantly, we talk in this episode all about how to send great pitches, some of the mistakes that people make when pitching, and how you can avoid those mistakes. Welcome back, everyone to another episode of the Advanced Freelancing Podcast. My guest today is one of the few people that I would trust with giving you freelance advice. The list of people I do not trust is way longer. But I am so excited to have Abbi here on the show because she really knows what she's doing. She gives authentic advice. And she's helped a lot of other freelancers, specifically writers, grow their business. I often feel like people ask me, “Oh, have you worked with so and so? What do you think about this person's courses?” And I feel like all too often I'm saying run away. It's so nice to have a couple of people that I actually do trust. So if somebody asked me advice, I'm happy to be like, “Oh, yeah, you need to go learn email sequences from this person.” It's so awesome to be able to have you on the show. We have a lot in common. We think the same with a lot about business stuff, but I'd love for you to give us a brief introduction, who you are, and what you do right now. All About Abbi She runs Successful Freelance Mom. And she is a mom of five kids, including one with special needs. She has worked as a freelance writer for 20 plus years. And today, she still does freelance writing work. And that's something that's really important to her. She still does the work with clients. So she’s not talking about theory that she learned in that work 20 years ago. Today, she teaches moms how to get started in freelance writing. And she has a couple of courses that are very general on how to get started in freelance writing. Then some of that are very specific and geared towards doing a specific offering a specific service, email sequences to course creators, and she loves it. She loves every second of it. Abbi hit on something that's one of my pet peeves too.  And that is somebody who freelanced once 10 years ago or sold one project on Upwork. It's not that they don't have valuable information to share. But I do question whether that's relevant.  We could like just make this like 30 minutes on what we don't like about other people. But I hate to seem that negative, but it's true.  Because what happens is, and Abbi probably sees this with a lot of her core students, by the time someone comes to you, they might have already looked at or purchased something from someone else and been disappointed and it they’re jaded. It crushes me because they're very concerned about working with anyone else again. They have these beliefs or ideas about how things should be or have to be because they heard it from somebody else.  And then it didn't work for them. So there's such a mindset thing, especially when you start about all the confidence that it takes and fake it till you make it and being damaged by one person. My advice...keep looking. I guess my advice on that would just be that you purchased a product a software worked with somebody, bought their course, bought their ebook, and didn't love it, so keep looking. That person is not the only authority. I would even say that if you bought something of mine and it didn't resonate with you, go find somebody else who teaches that might be able to help you. I just think it's so important that listeners know that because that's always been one of my big things, too. I don't feel like I can authentically talk about what it means to freelance today, if I'm not at least doing that. I have several clients, right. It's so cool that Abbi has it set up the same way. And I definitely want to talk about email sequences. But what we're hoping to focus on in this episode is pitching. I'm sure Abbi has seen it. I've seen it. Our clients have seen it. So many pitches are terrible and awful. The sad thing is you can avoid almost all of this. So I asked Abbi to talk about a top two or three things that she sees people doing over and over again that are just wrong. We’re talking wrong on the level of, “Yeah, don't even send the pitch. If you're doing this, just wait until you've got it refined.” “Hi. I’m a freelance writer.” Abbi thinks that a thing that someone teaches on the internet that is wrong, is do not start your pitch with “Hi, I'm Abbi and I'm a freelance writer.”  Because guess what, we know who you are. Because it's 2020, she has email, and it says your name right up there! And you probably say in your subject line something about whatever it is that they're looking for in a writer. You don't need to waste anyone’s time.  She thinks that a lot of people don't realize how much email some of these editors get in an hour, forget about a day. Literally hundreds of emails. They don't have that eight seconds that you've stolen it from them. And in pure resentment, they're just going to click “Delete”. That's it. Exactly. And especially if you're pitching on a platform like Upwork, where the client is soliciting a writer or a graphic designer, it's obvious that if you're replying to the post, you do that thing. So you don't need to recap it. “I’m really good at it.” The other one that drives me crazy is when people say, “I'm a good freelance writer. I'm really good at it.”   I would hope so. Because you shouldn't be in business if you're mediocre or bad. People still put it in there. You should only say things like, “I've been doing this for five years.” if there's some specific reason that the five years really matters.  Because it's not enough! Abbi is right about people having such a limited attention span. And if you put the good stuff about you at the bottom of the email, they’re never gonna get there. They're just going to delete it right away and you lost your chance with that editor or with that potential client. So that's definitely a good one. I totally agree with that. Track your email. Then this is a little admin thing surrounding the pitching, but Abbi always tells her students to track the email that they're sending. And she does this. She did this with everything. First of all, if she’s sending an email to her husband, she wants to know that he opened it and read it so that he can't tell her late, “Oh, I know I was supposed to do that.” Yeah, you did. Because you read the email, cookie. So I saw you open it six times at work. Track everything you sent. Because if you see that people are opening your email and you're never getting response, something about your pitch is not resonating with them. They're not giving you a chance. On the other hand, if you see that it's being opened multiple times, and especially in different locations, then you can tell a pitch is being forwarded around the office, being discussed, maybe in working meetings, that kind of thing. That's a great time to follow up and say, “Are there any Additional questions I can answer for you?” So just an admin thing around emails. It gives you a sense of how your pitch is being received. And if it's being opened at all, if it's being open and never read again, or if it's being open multiple times. Track your email. Getting flagged as spam. That's so good!  Because there's so much information you can get from that. And you don't want to wait until you've sent 40 or 50 pitches and aren't getting any responses. Because I've even seen freelancers who are sending pitches, and for whatever reason, there's something about their email address that's getting them flagged as spam. So it's not that the pitch is bad, but seeing that in the tracking that no one is even opening it. That tells you that there's something wrong there. Maybe your email address doesn't seem professional enough, or it's reading like a solicitation and the spam filter is catching it. So there's a chance to fix some stuff there. Email Tracking Software I know that HubSpot allows you to track up to 200 notifications. So I think that's every time someone opens an email per month for free. I know about mail track as another tracking tool. What do you recommend that freelancers use for tracking? Abbi has been using Streak which is a free Google Chrome extension. It works with Gmail. And so Streak has a paid version. You don't need the paid version. The paid version is for really a team of people who are doing multiple project management type tasks. The free version is unlimited in how many emails you can track per month and whatever. And it is robust! So for Abbi, it works exceptionally well.  She uses it herself. And she recommends it to her students.  She loves it.  And there's nothing like Mailtrack. She thinks it puts those little track my mail check at the bottom of every message. So Streak has nothing like that. It's not infallible, but nothing is and it's really, really good for what you need. I can't think of any use case for a freelance writer where  this wouldn't be a good fit. That makes a lot of sense because I agree. I installed Mailtrack to try it and it drove me crazy. I felt like it was buggy and it put at the bottom of every email that it was being tracked.  Sometimes you don't necessarily want your prospective clients or current clients knowing that you're tracking your email or their email. It's nice to have that as a secret tool in your arsenal to be like, “Hey, John Smith opened my email 21 times. This is the perfect time for me to write a custom follow up because obviously, there's something about it that got his attention.” But you don't really want to show all your cards with that. So I love that idea. It's so simple to do. It probably does not add any more than a handful of minutes to your pitching process. A basic misconception. I think another misconception that people have and we'll talk about this later is that it's as simple as sending a pitch and a client opens your email, reads it, writes back, and goes, “Sure send me the contract. Let's do thousands of dollars of work together.” A lot of the business is in the follow up.  You're setting yourself up for success with that. Follow up from day one by tracking it just makes it so much easier for you. I see people have these complicated spreadsheets that show when they contacted people. You don't need all that. Use the free version of Streak, get all the benefits of it, and don't add more stuff on your plate. So that's great. Abbi would also say, if you're not using Gmail, there's so many great tools built right in. They've even got this new, little nudge feature. If you sent an email a couple of days ago, and you haven't had a reply, it'll pop it back into your inbox and say, “Hey, you didn't get a reply to this. Do you want to do anything with that?” So I wouldn't necessarily take Google's advice every single time and immediately send a follow up three days later, but I do love the snooze feature, for example. So she will often snooze that and say, “Hey, remind me again 10 days from now.” Because that's the point where she does want to follow up and she does want to take a look. Is your email address unprofessional? So again, on the admin side, we talked about your email address might be coming off as unprofessional or getting flagged as spam. If it's an AOL.com address, It's definitely getting flagged as spam. If it's a hotmail.com address, it's 100% getting flagged as spam. It is 2020, get your own domain name and get a personal email address. It's not that expensive. I feel like Google charges $6 a month for that. I know I just put one of my websites on the year long plan with Squarespace. And it was one of the bonuses that came with that. A year of professional email. So at the bare minimum, you should be using something @gmail. com, you can probably get away with that if you don't want to deal with the hassle yet or not ready to invest. But it's such a small and easy thing to do to get that yourname@yourname.com or yourname@yourbusiness.com. Even if you don't have the full website setup yet, you can still leverage that email address.  It comes across a lot more professional because we've all received those annoying emails. Usually it's from SEO services. At least that's who targets me. And it's so obvious that it's a poorly written pitch. I mean, it starts with Dear Sir every time. Which I'm just like, “No, that's not accurate.” But you don't want to come across like those people. You don't want to be the fly by night, template pitch that has no rationalization to it. So try to stand out! Little things like your email address can make a big difference. They really, really can. And that's going to bring Abbi to her next point.  I mentioned these things that feel like templated pitches. So she’s all in favor of templates and systems and processes that save you time. But they shouldn't ever feel like templates and processes and systems that you created to make your life easier and to not really care about your clients. So she has a couple of  rules for business or rules for life or just things that she lives by core values. Don't lie. Don't send an email you'd be embarrassed to show people in your real life. These are basic things to Abbi, but a lot of people don't bother to follow them. So if you are a person who follows them, you will stand out. One of the things that she thinks about a lot and that she talks about a lot is that you should genuinely care about your clients and the people who you work with. You should really care about them. And you should think of them in a sense, as your friends. Yes, you want to have a professional relationship with them, but you should think of them as people whose well being you care about, whose time you want to protect. So don't send them crap that you'd be embarrassed to show people in your real life when you're emailing someone.  Put some effort into it. Even if it's a pitch, and even if you are using a template, put some effort and thought into it. She uses, for example, a tool called a TextExpander tool. There are different versions of this. The one that she uses is literally a $4.99 one time fee app. And it makes her life so much better because she can say of all of these templated responses that she can call up with just a keystroke or two, but then she always goes in and personalizes them. So the part that doesn't change is the service that she offers. Every single client who she works with gets the same offer, because that's the service that she offers. So it's an email sequence, it costs this much, and if you want a sales page, it's this much. But what she’s pitching to them, why she’s reaching out to this particular client, that's going to be the part where she’s going to put in that personalization. Be honest. And she finds that it's most effective, again, if you're honest. If you actually looked at their website, and there was something about it that spoke to you and made you say, “Wow, I want to work with this person.” Or if you're on Upwork, or a site like that, and you see a posting, what made you apply to that posting? And please don't tell me it's that they're offering a lot of money. That's not a good reason. There should be something beyond that that is pushing you to reach out to this specific client and not that one. So talk about that. And don't be afraid to let some of that passion come through. She thinks it makes pitching much more enjoyable for you as the person who's writing the pitch. And it certainly makes the person who opens it and reads it feel much more engaged with you if you're starting off by saying, “Wow, I looked at your website and your involvement with this organization, or the way you're approaching this, or the people you're serving…” Whatever it is, talk about the pizza thing that jumped out at you and got you excited. Absolutely. There's way too much generalization in some pitches. And it always surprises me, especially when I see that in responses to an Upwork gig. Because you're competing against other people there. If you're cold pitching somebody, they might have other freelancers that are cold pitching them, but most likely not at the same time as you sent your message on LinkedIn or your email. Use personalization. But when you're on Upwork, it's essential to have some level of personalization and a lot of times people will say, “Well, how do I know what that is? I can't see the client’s name. They didn't include their link or Upwork won’t allow them to do it.” Look for the clues that the client has left you in the job description if they are hiring a virtual assistant and it says, “I'm looking for someone who's super organized and a great communicator.” That's the personalization you put into the pitch. Not saying, “I'm a great virtual assistant.” Lead with, what it is about your communication.  Is it a feedback comment from a previous client that said you were the best communicator they'd ever interacted with? Is it the fact that your organization spills over into your personal life and your friends are envious of your closet? Share things that speak to that level of personalization even when you don't have a ton of information. I think it is an important sticking point that comes up a lot with beginners as well. It's easy for more experienced freelancers to pitch. They've got all of this background, past clients, testimonials, and referrals. If I knew, what the heck do I say in my pitch so that it's honest, like you mentioned, but not making promises that aren't true or not giving away necessarily, “Hey, you might be the first client I'm ever going to work with. How do you get a that in a pitch? Confidence is key. Abbi is definitely a huge fan of honesty. So she would never say you should claim to have experience that you don't have. But she also doesn’t think that you need to open with, “I've never done this before.” So you want to strike a balance.  One of the sentences that she loves, and she wants to give credit where it's due, her friend Lauren Golden uses this sentence and teaches this sentence, and that's, “I'm confident that I can do this for you. I'm confident that I can do this thing that you need for you.” Tell them the process. If you make your pitch about the outcome, that you're going to deliver the results that you're going to give your client, then you're driving that conversation. So it's not going to be about samples, clips, and experience. It's going to be about what you are going to do for them. Sometimes it can be very helpful to talk about the process you're going to follow to get the work done. You might say something like: “Hey, if we work together, we're going to start off with a kickoff call. That'll be about 45 minutes. Here's what I'm going to ask you on that call. Here's the information, I'm going to need to see from you. After that, it'll be about a 10 day turnaround time for me to do the work. During that time, I'll update you every other day by email, or I'll work in a shared google doc.” Whatever it is, talk about your process that makes you sound like you know what you're talking about. You have a process, you're laying it out for them, and you're making it really easy for them. Your clients don't necessarily know how this project is going to run. Because just like it might be the first time you're doing it, it might also be the first time they're outsourcing like this. So if you step up, and you say, “Hey, this is how this will work.” You take a lot of pressure off them. Think about it like this. If you're going to renovate your kitchen and you hire a contractor to come and renovate your kitchen, you’ve probably never renovated the kitchen before. So hopefully you hire a contractor who's perhaps done this once or twice, but every contractor has to start somewhere. So maybe this is that. But if he tells you, “Hey, okay, on Tuesday, we're going to come and we're going to demo. You're not going to have cabinets or counters or whatever. It's going to take two weeks after we measure for the things to be built and made. Two weeks later, you're going to have wood boxes in your kitchen. And then I'm going to come three days after that and do the countertop.” At least you have some sense of what's happening. Even if he's never done this before, and it's his first time and it's your first time, you feel a little bit more confidence in the process. Abbi thinks it's also okay to say to a client, again she wouldn't open with this, but she thinks it's okay to in your discussion, say, “Hey, I'm still nailing down my process on this, which is why I'm going to slightly discount this project or, which is why I'm doing this for x amount of money, when in the future, I plan to charge this much.” I think that that's an okay thing to say, when you're starting out if you really want the work, you really want this particular client, and you feel like this is your end. Telling the client the process adds accountability. I love all of those ideas. And I especially like explaining what the process is going to be like for the client. Because the other thing that's great about that, if you're just starting out, you've kind of set up your own loose accountability there by saying, “”Okay, we're going to start with the kickoff call.” So if I get this project, I need to be organized for that kickoff call. How am I going to block my schedule for that 10 day delivery period to make sure that I meet the deadline and the process that I've already presented to the client? I think clarity helps a lot. And clients want to be thinking about that end process of where you can take them. I love the idea of saying that I'm confident I can do this. Talk about your experience. Another one that I recommend is saying, especially if you have past experience, even if not freelance related, “I rely on my blah, blah, blah degree in web design to help my freelance clients.” or “I rely on my five years of experience working as a nonprofit to now serve in a consultant role.” So that's absolutely true. If it's accurate for you because you are relying on that experience. That's the passion and the interest in the background that potentially brought you to the type of freelance work you're doing today. So I completely agree. Do not lie. Do not say these are the kinds of results I get for my clients if you don't have any results yet. You don't need to say things like that. Of course, when you get to the more experienced freelancer point, you absolutely want to start adding those things into your pitches. Great comments and feedback from clients, amazing results, big name clients you've worked with. But please don't feel as a beginner like you have no chance if those things are missing from your pitch. Because I think you're just relying on a little bit different approach. But that doesn't mean it's not valid. And you have to think about the fact every freelancer started with no experience. So many people have found a way to break in and they are just a couple of steps ahead of you. That's really important to keep in mind. So two things... One is you might be new to freelancing, but you have a lot of other experience. Abbi said she can't tell you how many students she’s had who come to her and say, “I have two doctorates, and I've been the president of Uganda for seven years. Do you think I'm qualified?” She said she’s like, “Yeah, I feel like you can probably handle writing. Yes, I feel like you will be okay.” So don't discount the 10 years of corporate experience that you have in any writing work or freelance work that you've done.   Anything that you've done in your past that relates to what you're trying to do now, counts.  It matters. It's real experience. Every Freelancer starts somewhere right? Everybody has a first project. She loves to tell her students it's not only does every freelancer have a first project, every brain surgeon in the entire world has to at some point, picked up a scalpel and sliced into someone's brain for the first time. And she feels like not to belittle what we do by any means. But she feels like brain surgery is just a little more complex than most freelance writing projects. My goodness, Abbi just gave me a flashback. In my husband's third or fourth year of medical school, he rotated with a surgeon.  And the guy was more than ready to throw him into gastric surgeries with no experience.   My husband was like, “Yes, I've been trained to do this. I understand the theory of it. I know what that process should be. “ But he's like that first time that he goes, “Okay, you tie this up.  You close this out and you do the sutures.”  Everybody gets over that hurdle, no matter what your line of business or your passion is.  So keep that in mind.  Continuing to push yourself and get over those hurdles, especially as you expand your business too.   Me and Abbi have both had the first time we coaced somebody, the first course we created, which by the way, mine sucked.   So it’s going to be okay. However, if the first thing you create, the first thing you do, the first pitch you write, is maybe not a home run, that's okay. Because sometimes I think it's about that confidence of sending it out. Sometimes I hear especially from freelance writers that they're like, ”I'm going to take the next five to six months to write.“ And I'm like, “No, you're good. Like you don't need to spend six months workshopping this.” Sometimes it's just about maybe you don't send that first pitch to your dream client. But getting over that hurdle is so, so important. Following up. So let's talk about following up because this is really where your pitch can go from an email that happened to get read to now we're talking about potentially closing a deal. A lot of freelancers often ask me and I give them the answer that they hate, which is it depends if there is a specific formula for following up. I think there are loose guidelines around when and how you follow up.  So I was curious about Abbi’s thoughts on “you've sent the pitch, we tracked it, we see it's being opened, it's possibly being forwarded around” what now?  Abbi says follow up is so critically important. She follows Ilise Benun of Marketing Mentor. got it. And she did a podcast episode or an email or something about how somebody was trying to get on her podcast. Abbi had emailed her multiple times. And she said, “I feel like she probably thinks she's bothering me, but I happen to know I'm really busy and every time she emails I'm like, Yes, I meant to go and look up her stuff and I haven't had time yet. If she keeps following up, she's going to get booked in that slot.” So we write all these stories in our heads about how they must have hated it or they would have replied, but the reality is people are busy. They're spending far less time thinking about you than you think they are. No one cares about you very much. So the act of following up is really important in and of itself. How and when do you follow up? So how and when Abbi typically advises to follow up is if after two weeks if you've seen that that email has been opened multiple times, it's a good time to follow up. But how do you follow up? Abbi doesn’t forward the old email. Don't do that. To her, that's weird. She would do a new email with a new subject.  You can even say following up, put a dsah, and then your original subject line. And that's something that she likes to do personally. And then, “Hey, I wanted to follow up with you. I'm sure you're busy. Here's how I can help you…” Hit the high points. Here's how I can help you be less busy. And here's how I can take some of this load off of you. I want you to think for a second about the one behind the one. There's the thing that business owners say like, “I need social media management, right”. But what they mean is “I need more clients. I need more money.” That's what they actually want. So speak to that want behind what they actually want to get from this relationship. I can help you grow your business, I can help you whatever it is that you're offering to do for them. Hit the high points and make it super easy for them to get back to you. It's not, “Hey, you can call me at this number.” Nobody wants to pick up the phone anymore. Put a calendar link right in there and make it super easy for them, click here, book a time with me, I will be happy to take care of everything for you and give you all the answers you need. Take this project off your hands, get it done, and get it delivered. You can even say something like, “I'm currently booking work for whatever next week, two months from now…” Whatever it is that you're trying to project in your business that can sometimes push people into that response. If your email hasn’t even been opened. Abbi thinks that if you've seen that an email hasn't even been opened and it's been two weeks, then she would definitely send it with a completely different subject line because it wasn't ever opened. So ignore that first subject line.  It either wasn't interesting enough to them or it never made it to the inbox or they have a lot of email and things get lost. Whatever. forget about it. Come up with a new subject line, something that you feel might hook them in and get them to open your email. You can use the same text of the email if you want to, although I would read it over to make sure that there's nothing in there that's getting it filtered into spam. Just give it a once over. And if you see that something was opened once and then never opened again, it still could be worth a single follow up. In that case, I would kind of make a note to yourself that this is the last chance for this guy because you feel like he's not interested.  And it’s fine that not everybody is going to be interested in you. And that's okay, too. Make the follow up different than your original email. I love all of that. And one of the things that I really want to hone in on, which is what you talked about, is this idea of making the follow up be a little bit different than your original email.  Not forwarding the same email and not saying, “Hey, again, here's my website with my samples.”  Remember, these people are busy. If they didn't look at your samples from the first time around, or even if they did, they don't want to see that again. So you're getting into the psychology of it all right? Who is this person?  They're busy, but obviously there's a need and a want here because they opened my email five times. So how can I hit home with that?  Another place where people get stuck a lot is the multiple follow ups. And I think that's important to do. Because sometimes you will hear from clients that you haven't heard from in weeks, months, sometimes even years.  And they will appear out of nowhere. Even if you've never worked with them. There was someone that I wrote a proposal for, that they didn't accept, but they forwarded my name to somebody else who contacted me out of the blue. Because I had kept following up on the proposal that they never signed and went for. So I like to think of it as you're opening all these doors, then leave them open for as long as it makes sense. Don't do the follow up of like, “Hey, just following up on this.” That's appropriate if they have a proposal or a contract that is pending a signature. Then you can be that directive, like, “Hey, I just want to make sure my invoice gets paid, that you saw this contract and scope before you agree with it.”  But make it more personal. When you're still at the pitch level or you're trying to get them on a call or something like that. I think a lot of people kind of miss that. Creeper status. Now, after the first couple outreach efforts, I get a little bit of creeper status going so I will start googling the company and the person I'm emailing. I will look for articles or new studies that came out that were relevant to their business. And I will say something like, “Hey, I came across this article on email marketing, and how the ROI on it is, blah, blah, blah, dollars for every blah, blah, blah dollar you spend. I instantly thought of you because I know I've sent you previous information about email marketing and I really feel like for your audience segment. It could be key.” If the CEO was recently received an award or was featured in an article, use that as your follow up like, “Hey, I saw this. This is super cool. It's part of why I'm so pumped to potentially work with you.” So make it a little more personal. I think that every client and potential client hates when people say, “Hey, following up.” or  “Hey, checking in on this.” over and over and over again.  Because you're making it all too easy for them to just say, “No, not right now.” There's no incentive for them to take any action based on those kinds of statements. So you want to prompt them. This is what you're missing if you don't work with me, “Hey, I'm really passionate about your company or you or your industry.” Something that's personal that makes them go, “Man, if we are gonna outsource it, it's gonna be to this freelancer because their follow up game is solid.” Abbi shared that if you want to go an extra step, send a video pitch.  This is something a lot of people are going to hear this and be like, “I'm not doing that.” But Abbi encourages you to think about it. She has students who have had an enormous amount of success with video pitches. They will literally use Loom, again free Google Chrome extension that’s super easy to use. Even if you've never used it, you can be up and running in 45 seconds, because you're a human with a brain. You go to their website and you can talk about them and like, “Oh, my gosh, I love this stuff about you.” Or you could take that article and say, “I'm reading this article, and I'm just thinking about you. This line in particular really speaks to me and reminds me of your company, because XYZ.” Number one, not everybody is sending video pitches. Number two, it is clear that you made this effort specifically for that client. It catches their attention.  And Loom loads things so nicely with this preview right in the email. People are like, “Huh, what's that?” And they click and you don't want to go on for 17 minutes. But if you do like a two- three minute video, that's something that has a real impact. And you get a notification when they've watched it. So another nice tool for “Oh, hey, they watch this.” You know you are going to stand out in their mind. We're writers, because we're introverts and whatever. Get over it. They're not looking at it to judge your makeup or whatever. They care much more about themselves. So take the time, make this little video pitch because it makes such a difference. I can't even tell you how many clients I've landed, or at least opened the lines of communication, because I sent a one or two second video.  It's really your chance to show that you're a human too. You're not just a taskmaster who does projects and turns them in. You're a human being. And you have a personality. You care about their business. I also worked with an online business manager for about two years. And it was from an Upwork pitch. But she went one step beyond to Google my name and made me the two minute video that says, “Hey, I went and looked at your website and as your OBM here, the three things that I would change that I don't think are working as well as they could.” No one else even spent the five minutes today to check out who I was and where I probably needed the most help. And so that led to a two year contract for her. Make it personal. So anytime I can do something that's a little bit personal like the video, going that little one step beyond the follow up.  Another one of my favorite follow ups is pitch the person then connect with them on LinkedIn. I did this yesterday.  And I was pitching a speaking gig. I wrote the custom pitch to the conference organizer. Five minutes after sending it, I sent a connection request on LinkedIn. And said, I like to add a note section connecting I said, “Hi there, I'd love to connect with you because blah, blah, blah.” But then I put at the end, “Also, I just sent you an email on 2029 friends. Looking forward to connecting.” And because people still tend to check their LinkedIn, which might not always be 100% true on email, that's another great way to follow up or keep that conversation going or ground somebody whose email inbox is bogged down to go searching for your name. Add a note to connection requests. Abbi loves that I sent a personal message with my LinkedIn request. Because sometimes you can get dozens if not hundreds a day. And when they don't have a personal message, she’s not necessarily going to bother to approve them. Because she doesn’t know who you are. She doesn't know anything about you. And she doesn’t know if you're a good connection for her.  She’s very selective with her LinkedIn connections. Because when she puts out content on LinkedIn, she wants it to be showing to people who actually may engage with that content. So if it's somebody who has taken the time to write her something personal, she will almost always accept them even if they're outside of that immediate market. She thinks, “Okay, this person made the effort and told me why they wanted to connect with me. Sure.” But if you don't bother to do that, then you are missing out on a chance to connect with people. I leave my connections for the longest time in purgatory on LinkedIn if I can't figure out who they are and what they do.  This is especially true if you don't send the note. Also, your tagline on LinkedIn is extremely big.  Someone the other day tried to connect with me and their tagline was “Making dreams come true.” And I thought, what does that mean?  And what industry are you in? Some of the people that I connect with, not just connects with, but gets right back to them immediately, are those who are like, “Hey, I saw your TEDx talk.  I loved Episode 90 of your podcast.” It's like, “Oh, yeah, this person actually knows who I am. They're not just randomly clicking people you might know and adding connections for whatever reason.” So if we think like that, I guarantee you marketing managers and busy entrepreneurs think like that, too. So it doesn't even have to be related to the service that you pitch. It may be you saw them deliver an amazing keynote and you comment on like, “Hey, you really killed it on that stage. You did an amazing job.” You're much more likely to open that line of conversation and communication. So I think that's so important and underutilized. Abbi has also had students of her who will sign up for her free email course, they'll like her Facebook page, they'll join her group, and then on LinkedIn, the message will be something like, “I swear, I'm not a stalker.” So you know, it took five seconds to write that. It made her laugh. And she gets it. She knows you want to follow her in these spaces. That's totally cool with her. She is there for it. She’ll even reply to something like that like, “Haha, I don't think you're a stalker. It's awesome. So glad to connect.  Let me know if you're finding everything you need.” And now we have a conversation going so. So there are definitely ways that you can do that and it's such an easy way to stand out from the crowd. Just give them a nudge. So to close things out, because I feel like we could talk for hours, say you're in the process of following up, you've suggested the call, and they haven't taken it. Do you have any tips for how to nudge that person into getting them on the phone? Because I feel like that's where so much business is done. How do you nudge that person without being annoying? How could it be most effective at sort of prompting them into that action step of the phone call? Abbi would definitely start with her calendar link. And if that hasn't been clicked on, if that hasn't resulted in the follow up, then she might, in her next follow up, propose two times. She would say, “Hey, I'd love to get this on the calendar. Would Tuesday at 3:00 or Wednesday at 10:00 be better for you?” Then if one of those works, then she'll send that calendar invite. There is no foolproof system. It is a little bit tricky there. She doesn’t have a great foolproof system. And she doesn’t think there is a foolproof system for every situation. For example, her calendar link is linked to a zoom call. Which is a great little setup, but some people may be intimidated by the calendar link in general and by the idea of Zoom. So maybe make it a little bit easier. “Would it be easier for you if I called you at 10am on Wednesday?” Think about the person.  If you're speaking to someone of a certain age, they may be less comfortable with some of the technology. And if you're speaking to someone who's not in a technology field, they may not be comfortable. Another thing that she ran into was some corporate clients can't access some of those zoom things on a corporate network. So be cognizant of that and say, “How can I do this? How can I make this easier for you?” I love that and giving them a reason to take the phone call, even if it doesn't end up going further with business. Maybe there's a question they have around content marketing, or maybe you have a couple of recommendations that aren't giving away the farm, but allow you to get some of your insight in there, and really get them to see you as an expert. So when people are busy, there has to be a reason for the phone call. Your link cannot be a 45 minute thing that you're scheduling. Keep it to 15 to 20 minutes if they're definitely interested. And they've written back saying, “Yeah, we really need someone to help with XYZ service.” You can expand it to 30 minutes. But you want to watch your time too so that you're not giving away too much and it's not leading to business. But definitely give them a reason for that phone call to make sense. Get them thinking. Right now we're in q1, a lot of companies have met and decided their budgets for the year. That might be a good opportunity to be like, “Hey, I'd love to hear about your content marketing and traffic goals or email newsletter goals to close out quarter one and kickoff q2 strong.” That gets them thinking about it. And If you've hit the right employee or that's on their list of things to achieve, there's more of a chance that they're at least willing to talk to you, especially if it makes them look good if you're going to give them a tip or if you're going to propose an easy solution. You may say, “Hey, your email newsletter is not converting, I know because I'm a customer and these were the problems I encountered with it.” They're much more likely to hire you. And you also can make that employee look good when they go to their boss and say, “Hey, I've got some excellent feedback on how we can improve this. And I found the professional who can help us to accomplish that and knock it out and start seeing better numbers.”  More Abbi later. I love it. This is not the last Abbi will hear of me because I have so many things to pick her brain about. We're definitely going to try to have her come to a live training in my facebook group specifically about email sequences.  Iit is kind of in the freelance writing world like writing emails for other people. Abbi’s Facebook Group is amazing.  Another one of my pet peeves with the online world is Facebook groups where, especially writers, love to pile on each other or critique other people's rates or be negative or write comments like “You'll never achieve your dreams.” Abbi’s Facebook group is not like that. I also strive for that to not be my Facebook either. But I would if you're a writer, even if you're experienced, I would strongly recommend joining her facebook group because it's a very supportive community and people write actionable tips in response to questions.  They don’t write supervague, like, “Hey, I can offer you a phone call.” You're going to get good answers to your questions. Thanks for tuning in for another episode of the advanced freelancing podcast. For more freelance advice, get a copy of my book Start Your Own Freelance Writing Business—available now! Buy it from Amazon, Barnes & Noble, Apple Books, and more. Connect with Abbi: Website: com Instagram: @AbbiPerets Facebook: Successful Freelance Writing Moms

With the big game just a couple of days away, I thought it'd be fun if Producer Josh and I got prepped for Super Bowl weekend by swapping some game day snacks (with a twist!) Because I've never had a chicken wing in my life, Producer Josh decided today was the day to introduce me to the art of wing eating. He was kind by starting me off with boneless wings which he calls "glorified chicken nuggets" but didn't skimp on the heat with the hottest sauce on the menu. So in return, I thought I'd let him try my dad's famous crab dip but I took the liberty of adding some sardines into the mix just to let him really experience my coastal upbringing *CUE EVIL LAUGH*If you've got any go-to recipes for your Super Bowl spread, don't be afraid to share!

Serge Boudreau is the Manager of Talent Acquisition at Calgary based BURNCO Rock Products. With his job board background he is revamping their recruitment process from a marketer's perspective. LI: post mentioned: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6620785258625409024 Serge Boudreau: This is Serge Boudreau, manager of talent acquisition at BURNCO Rock Products, and I'm next on the RecTech podcast. Speaker 2: Welcome to RecTech, the podcast where recruiting and technology intersect. Each month, you'll hear from vendors shaping the recruiting world along with recruiters who will tell you how they use technology to hire talent. Now, here's your host, the mad scientist of online recruiting, Chris Russell. Chris Russell: All right. You're listening to the only podcast that helps employers and recruiters connect with more candidates through technology-inspired conversations. We're all about the new tools and tactics to land more talent. Today's episode is a practitioner edition. RecTech Podcast sponsored in part at our friends at Emissary.ai, the text recruiting platform. You want to get superstars in demand and on the move, Emissary is the easiest way to connect with them faster and more effectively wherever they are. Each recruiter seat you get on Emissary gets their own phone number to use as their primary phone number for candidate conversations. All those conversations are stored in the text inbox on Emissary. You choose the area code, so each of your recruiters will get a 10-digit the candidate sees when they receive the message. They can have the option for call forwarding to their cell or office line. Go to Emisarry.ai, self-schedule a demo, let them know you heard it on the RecTech Podcast. Chris Russell: He's at the top. Serge Boudreau runs talent acquisition for BURNCO Rock Products out of Calgary, Alberta. He's also a listener of the show, so I'm extremely glad he's about to make is RecTech debut. Serge, welcome. Serge Boudreau: Thank you, Chris. I'm very excited to be here or talking to you. Definitely, I've been listening to your podcast almost since the inception, so for you to ask me to come onboard was very exciting on my end. Chris Russell: Awesome. I always love it when I get a listener on the show itself. So appreciate that volunteering there. I was looking at your LinkedIn profile before we get started today. You got an interesting background overall. I want to start there, I think. You've worked time at Kelly Services. You worked at Indeed Canada and also Workopolis. I'm assuming you were there at Workopolis when the takeover happened by Indeed. Would that be a correct assumption? Serge Boudreau: Actually, no. Chris Russell: Oh. Serge Boudreau: I was at Indeed when Indeed purchased Workopolis, which was very interesting. Chris Russell: Okay. So the reverse, okay. Serge Boudreau: Yeah, I actually had joined Indeed already. It was interesting. Like you said, my background is quite varied. I actually started my career in talent acquisition as a recruiter. Then got promoted in through a different recruitment manager roles. Then decide to really go on the vendor side and go at Workopolis. During that time, Workopolis was very dominant here in Canada as far as the job site of choice. I think it was really Workopolis and Monster had quite a bit of market share here as well. I had the pleasure of being in charge of sales and operation for Western Canada and Quebec for a while. I do speak French as well, but spent quite a bit of time there. Unfortunately, when Indeed came into the market or fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, it really took a lot of market share and really hurt Workopolis. Serge Boudreau: Eventually, pretty much led to Indeed acquiring in that point, but a couple factors that happened is here in Western Canada, especially in Calgary, it's very oil and gas focused, the industry. So in 2014 when oil and gas just crashed, also did the recruitment aspects of it. It really put Workopolis in strain in Western Canada, hence I moved to Kelly Services, which was actually my first foray in a staffing firm. I learned a lot, both on the permanent placement, but mostly, we did a lot of contract for contract workers for large oil and gas. A lot of the workforce became a contract workforce as they were hiring just based on the economy. Serge Boudreau: Then had the pleasure to do a very similar role at Indeed where I basically led the Western sales team here in Canada. I did Quebec for a while as well there, so it was kind of going back to my old days at Workopolis. Then one day, we acquired Workopolis, and it felt like the old Godfather line, "When you think you're out, they pull you back in." It's how I felt. I have so many great memories and everything at Workopolis, but, obviously, Indeed in the Canadian marketplace and also in the US has been very dominant. Chris Russell: Yeah. Rumor has it that ZipRecruiter was also trying to bid for Workopolis. Do you know if that's true or not? Serge Boudreau: I've heard similar rumors. Yeah, there's a couple of other. The other rumors I've heard, there was also other Canadian players that were looking to basically going around Workopolis. In Canada, just to give you a landscape, there was Workopolis. Obviously, the normal American job board, so CareerBuilder, Monster, but there's a Quebec job board that's making a lot of inroads in Canada was Jobillico. There was rumors they were potentially trying to acquire Workopolis. Obviously, Nubo or now Talent.com, there's rumors they were in the picture, but I don't exactly what happened in the end of the day, but I'd be shocked if ZipRecruiter was not part of that conversation for sure just because Workopolis brand was so strong in Canada. Chris Russell: Yeah, totally. Okay, cool. Well, thanks for that history lesson there, Serge. Tell me about more about what you guys hire for there at BURNCO and I'm curious to talk to me a little bit the size of your recruiting team there, and how many people they are, and how many recs you guys are looking to fill this year, and things like that. Serge Boudreau: Yeah. No. BURNCO Rock Products is an interesting business. We basically take big rocks and make them into small rocks to really simplify what we do, but a lot of people. We operate in Canada and the US. In Canada, concrete. So you've seen those concrete mixer trucks. We do asphalt aggregate, which is basically the foundation of construction for highways, anything like that. We also run supply, basically landscape supply, landscape, hardscape supplies to retail stores for contractors and for basically the weekend landscape person that's coming in to get a bag of rocks or get some landscape stones or whatever the case is. In the US, we're heavily focused on concrete and aggregate. We have operations in Texas and in Colorado. Serge Boudreau: The great majority of what we hire and the biggest challenge, as you're probably well aware of, is drivers. Our drivers in Texas and Colorado, it's a massive challenge as everyone is seeing in the industry of all type of driving jobs. In Canada, very similar, but we also hire in Canada anything from head office. We do from IT roles to anything across the board. Our structure is a little bit different as far as how much we recruit. In total, we hire around 550 people a year. Very small team. When it comes to recruitment, it's a little bit of a structure. How my role falls into play is basically I'm responsible for the creation and the governance of our whole talent acquisition strategy. The great majority of the actual execution is done by our HR business partners that's responsible for each business division. I do have a team of coordinators and also recruiters to assist, but the lead on the intake on the role from the hiring manager is done by the HR business partner or the HR manager in that particular location comes to us. Serge Boudreau: The biggest part of my job is more in the recruitment marketing side to make sure that we are doing everything out there, especially in the recruitment market to get enough candidates and enough qualified candidates so we can actually fill those roles. I'm going to brag a little bit, but hiring 500 roles and really having a tiny recruitment team is something I'm really proud of. A lot of that, coming in is I had the opportunity to create a really robust team, but I decided to look at how we can be efficient. We really automated a lot of our processes, a lot of how we're going out to the market from... Basically, if we can automate it, we're automating it. I really want the recruitment and the HR business partner focus 100% on relationships. I really do strongly believe in the candidate experience and our hiring manager experience is the two things I really care about. Serge Boudreau: When I first started, to give you an idea, we were still accepting resumes. We didn't have an ATS. We had zero technology. Basically, I was guided to a filing cabinet with all the resumes we'd received over the last 10 years, which I was kind of shocked to see. Chris Russell: Filing cabinet, huh? Serge Boudreau: Yeah, exactly. And just the word fax. I'm not that young. I'm not that old, but in reality, I didn't know fax machines still existed in the corporate world, especially coming from pretty innovative companies like Indeed. So we completely revamped what we did. I feel today, in our market, in our industry, we're definitely highly innovative in what we do, and how we go to the market, and how we actually get our employees. So quite a big of changes, but it's been lots of fun in the past year. We've accomplished a lot. Chris Russell: Yeah, it sounds like it. We're going to dive into that. I'm going to give you some props first though because as a recruiting marketer, I like to see people like yourself out there doing unique things that are unique in terms of social media stuff. You posted something yesterday which I called out and threw it up on my LinkedIn recruiting marketing group, which is basically just a job post. Now, when I typically see job posts on LinkedIn, it's all same thing. It's all we're hiring, right? With a simple link and maybe a small- Serge Boudreau: I hate we're hiring, by the way, not to cut you off. Chris Russell: So do I. Serge Boudreau: But I just hate that phrase. Anytime I see it, it's a massive turnoff. Sorry. Go ahead. Chris Russell: Everyone's hiring. Who cares what the- Serge Boudreau: Yeah, exactly. Chris Russell: What the job seeker wants to know is why should they come work there or something unique about that employer itself. Let me just read for the audience what you wrote here, and I'll put a link to it in the show notes as well. It says... Well, let me describe it first. It was a picture of a bunch of trucks lined up. It looks like it's at a rock quarry, but it's from 1950s, it looks like. There's a bunch of old trucks sitting there. Serge Boudreau: Yeah. Chris Russell: Looks like old cement mixers. Are those cement mixers? Serge Boudreau: They are, yeah. That's 1940. Chris Russell: 1940, okay. So I go back even further. You've got the BURNCO logo in red there right on top, so it stands out pretty well. First of all, I think the black and white photo is unique too for one thing. That's going to catch my eye, number one, and your logo there is right there on top in red. You can't miss this thing. Audience, it says, "Judging by the picture, we need to hire someone to do some better financial planning so we can update our equipment. I'm kidding, but we are hiring a finance planning and analyst profession for our Texas office. Click on the picture to find out if this opportunity, an iconic 107-year-old family business, is the right place for you." I love that, Serge. That's a great example of how to use social media right when it comes to promoting a job. So kudos to you and great job there. Serge Boudreau: Thank you. What's interesting in looking at what our value proposition as an employer is and looking at how we're going to go to the market, I think there's a couple things that I looked at is we're 107 years old. We're a fourth-generation family business. In an economy, especially in the Calgary market, where I wouldn't say it's doing really well just based still on oil and gas and the Canadian market, people are looking for a little bit stability, companies that have been a long time. I do a mixture of either people that are genuine people that work within the company and are still here, and they're happy. The other is when I'm doing equipment or anything like that, I love the vintage stuff. I think it stands out. I think it's our unique proposition to the market that we've been around forever. We have a lot of history. That picture is from 1940. I have pictures actually from our inception, which was in 1912. Our CEO is... Like I said, he's a fourth-generation Burns, so it's been in the family. It's a unique proposition. Serge Boudreau: I leverage social media quite a bit. We have our own social media site that's just dedicated towards the employee side of it, what it is. It's also my recruitment marketing launchpad, but I'm trying a lot of different things to see what resonates better in the market. Some of it generic, just like, "Here's my job. Here is the 100 list of things that I need you to be able to do to hire here," just it doesn't attract. I know it from working plenty of years at a job board, and understanding what works, what doesn't. So I'm always testing from witty to straight up. Serge Boudreau: I try to stay away from the faux employer brand. What I mean by that is try to be authentic with what you're doing. I get caught in it sometimes, and I put buzzwords or things that really are too corporate-y. Our employees that we're hiring are true, what I call, salt of the earth type people, hard workers, and they don't want the corporate BS that a lot of job postings are out there or how we're targeting it especially. I do a lot of Facebook targeted ads. I try to do the same thing there because it's really hitting the demographic of the people I'm trying to start- Chris Russell: How are those working for you, Serge, because they changed their ad restrictions there? Were you affected by that? Because it seems like now it's a much broader set of people you can target with that ad, and it's going to lessen, I think, the overall quality of click-through rates in some of these ads there. Tell me what you're seeing from your standpoint. Serge Boudreau: Yeah. I hate it, first of all, because I was able to target. I think it's doing exactly the opposite of what they were trying to do. I get it. I get the reasoning, but I get the challenge because, in certain cases, it really has affected the way I can target from... To give you an idea of that is I was able to target specifically ads in either a different language or specific demographic or even in some cases, I am actually physically targeting a minority group because I want to hire them. Now, I'm caught in the situation that it's a lot tougher to do. Serge Boudreau: So right now, I can't be as targeted. I really have to spread it out to everyone, which is fine. I have actually had success in some ways because I'm hitting the husbands of people that could work for us or the wives, and they're sharing it to their network, which if I was really specific on my targeting, I maybe not would have hit them as much. So I'm not totally pissed off, but it's made my job a little bit harder in how I approach Facebook ads because I think they're a great tool for recruitment. I think especially I'm hiring a demographic that spends a lot of time on Facebook, so I need to be there more than I need to be on any other tools out there. Chris Russell: Are you- Serge Boudreau: Yeah, it hasn't been great. Chris Russell: For your ads on Facebook, are you doing legion ads where you just capture the contact info or are you actually redirecting them back to your job somewhere? Serge Boudreau: I leverage ViziRecruiter. I don't know if you've ever heard of Vizi, which it's basically how it's leading to my... Basically, I take the Vizi ad, and then it's basically driving it to apply directly to my career site, but there's not many clicks. It's they see the job description. They click on the ad. They see the Vizi, which, in my opinion, it's really cool. It's probably the thing I get the most complement- Chris Russell: Yeah. Describe ViziRecruiter for the audience, if you could. Tell them what it is. I love the product as well. Serge Boudreau: Yeah. So- Chris Russell: I remember when it came out a few years ago and I was like, "Wow. This is what every career site should look like basically." Serge Boudreau: I agree. I think the biggest challenge that I have I'm a horrible copywriter. I try to do my best, and when I looked at my job ad coming in, there's a big difference between a job description and a job ad. So I was able to really focus my job ad, but Vizi just brought it to the next level where it basically takes your job ad. It creates it in a really nice-looking format that's easily digestible with nice pictures. The key highlights are really easy to read as they're kind of in a... not in a bullet point, but I don't know what the exact word is. It's basically laid out in very visual way. Serge Boudreau: Instead of creating an ad for every time that I'm doing any type of social media campaign on my own, I'm just taking the link from Vizi. It's already done. Vizi is something that I've had a lot of compliments from job seekers, from my counterparts in the industry as how cool it looks because it does look... Not to advertise anyone. They're not paying me, but I definitely recommend if there's any practitioners out there to take a look at Vizi because it's made a big difference in the look of my ads. Chris Russell: Yeah. Listeners, go out there, search BURNCO careers. You can see some of their jobs there. It's a very visual. It's basically a visually-stunning job description overall. I like how I click on the Texas drivers here and the shot of the cement mixer pans in on itself. It's very colorful and definitely eye-catching overall. There's no paragraphs of texts. It's just blocks of images or, sorry, blocks of elements here with some icons, things like that. So I do love the overall visual-ness of the job. I think every job ad should look like this overall, but I shall there... so you mean- Serge Boudreau: It does make it stand out. You described it way better than I did, so thanks, Chris, but it does make it stand out. It really differentiates. It helps you, like what we talked about, as far as what your actual imagery is going to look out there. I'm always a believer that the most important thing in a job description is the physical content of what the job is. Chris Russell: Will Vizi... Will it suck in your ATS jobs and then kind of- Serge Boudreau: Yeah. Chris Russell: ... create the ad automatically? How's it work? Serge Boudreau: So they scrape my jobs from my ATS. They basically automatically update on their backend as far as what it looks... They create each one individually, but they scrape my job so any updates that I do, usually, the new Vizi, I call it, is updated in the next day. So around half a day turnaround, so it's fairly quick. Chris Russell: Nice, nice. Did you see a jump in applications or conversions when you switched to Vizi? Serge Boudreau: Yeah. We actually did quite a bit of research to see how much it would affect it. You got to put in perspective, my number one source of candidates right now is still Indeed, and my jobs are flowing automatically to Indeed as the quick apply in the background. But my jobs in Indeed are not being converted into Vizi just because of how their format runs, but all the other sources of social media and looking at what the conversion was before and after, we saw almost a 25% up-lick on our conversion. With the amount of volume that we do, which is not large... Obviously, we're not an international or a national business, but for our volume, that's a huge uplift. What I noticed too, I found a little bit deeper, we actually hired more from the Vizi than we did from any other sources outside of Indeed, which was definitely interesting. What that tells me is the quality that we're getting is higher with Vizi than it was before. Chris Russell: Interesting. Very interesting. Okay. Your ATS there is Workable, it looks like, which you- Serge Boudreau: It is. Chris Russell: ... which you put in last year at some point. Just in the initial thoughts on Workable as an ATS, how do you like it? Serge Boudreau: I really like Workable. When I looked at different ATS, there's so many different alternatives and I went through... I'll give you an idea of where I got to. I shortlisted to three ATS. Those were Jobvite, SmartRecruiters, and Workable. Jobvite and SmartRecruiters are amazing ATS in the context, but our hiring managers are quite involved in the hiring process overall. And what I want to make sure is it's very easy for them to use. I found with functionality as far as the intuitiveness of Workable was impressive to me and what it could do. I felt that it wouldn't take me really long or anyone in my team to be able to train the hiring manager on how to access Workable. It's basically a five-minute conversation. It's done. They get it. That's a challenge with most ATS. Imagine trying to train hiring managers that's never used any software used in the field on Taleo. Not to bash Taleo, but that would be really difficult. Serge Boudreau: The other aspect that I found really key with Workable, and most ATS now, I'm seeing that change, is how easy it is for applicants to apply. Workable has a mobile-first platform, extremely easy to apply. So that's critical to me. I've heard on your show many times, I think you're a big proponent. Actually, your last one, your idea is we should have one quick apply for every ATS and every ATS should get onboard. I'm 100% behind it. Chris Russell: Thank you, Serge. Serge Boudreau: I do believe though, not to sound... It's a little bit of a pipe dream in some ways, so- Chris Russell: Yeah, I know. Serge Boudreau: ... I don't think they'll coordinate- Chris Russell: A man can dream, can't he? Serge Boudreau: Exactly. I think you're 100% accurate, but, hey, I got to take care of my own and I got to work with what I can control. And Workable definitely has that aspect where it's easy to apply. It's quick. It's a mobile type of platform. I don't even have to ask for resume. To give you an idea, in certain markets we're in, really tough to get drivers. I want to remove any friction if possible. So I'll ask them, "What's your name? What's your email address? What's your phone number? Write in one sentence why you're a driver." That way, I'll call them then get the... or someone will call them and get all the information. So anything that can remove friction from the system in applying is great. I also like they integrate with a lot of tools that I was planning to use anyway. Serge Boudreau: The one complaint, and I've told this to Workable many times, is their hesitance to work with programmatic advertising. I've had quite a bit of challenge getting Appcast or any other programmatic players integrated with Workable. They put a lot of roadblocks behind it. As you know, right now, programmatic is probably the hottest thing in HR tech. If you haven't looked at leveraging programmatic as an HR or as a talent acquisition practitioner, you're behind the curve because it definitely is a true course of candidates. What I'm trying to do is really go away from my reliance on Indeed like more practitioners in Canda just because of their dominance here. I have nothing against Indeed, but it's never a good business decision to have a reliance. So I'm really looking at programmatic to get the next level. We have to figure it out workarounds with Appcast and with other providers. Chris Russell: Could you give Appcast your feed or something like that and have them push out the jobs? Is that- Serge Boudreau: Yeah, yeah. We've created a backend solution, but it's not ideal because sometimes, I need to go to directly to the Appcast feed to get the candidates. And anytime you're adding layers in a really, pretty tight, efficient team, any more steps can cause a little bit of growing pain. That's the only complaint. So Workable, if you're out there, you've heard me. You need to do this. You need to work with programmatic. Chris Russell: There you go. All right. What else is on your HR tech deck, Serge? It looks like you got some referral stuff here. I guess that's also Workable. Serge Boudreau: Yeah, I'm actually using Workable's referral tool, which has worked really well. We had a very, very decentralized type of how we handled referrals. So we had spreadsheets, which ended up, we forgot to pay most of the people because spreadsheet wasn't updated. We had a different program in Texas, Colorado, and then in different business divisions in Canada. So it wasn't standardized. It was really tough to follow. It was tough to get our people paid on time. So Workable referral is actually really good on that end. They basically centralize everything for me. Serge Boudreau: Really, my long-term plan with Workable or any type of referral programs that I want to run, I eventually want to get away from paying any referral bonus. I think if you're a really good company to work for, people will actively go out and refer people. But in the meantime in going away, because we've always had a referral program. It's always been somewhat lucrative. Just dropping the ball initially and saying, "Hey, we're not going to do referral bonus anymore," could have had a negative effect. So I think the program and how we handle it right now will never change, but how we pay, that might change dramatically in the future as well. Chris Russell: Gotcha. Let's take a quick break, listeners, so I can talk about our other sponsor, of course, our friends over at WorkHere, WorkHere.com, the geofencing ad platform. They help employers reach people through online ads with pinpoint precision where they live, work, and shop. WorkHere is going to advertise your jobs on the screens that candidates use the most, of course, their mobile phones. Messaging is then delivered in the social mobile apps they use more often. From them, a chat team will qualify and engage them, send them back to ATS via SMS, email or redirect. So head over to WorkHere.com and tell them you heard it on the RecTech Podcast. Serge, on your social media profiles, how often are you posting? Just give me a general sense of the types of content you're posting up there as well. Serge Boudreau: Yeah. We're not posting enough. That's something that working really lean and having a lot of recs has been a... I'm a believer you need to be putting out like 10 to 15 pieces of content almost a day to really keep the candidates engaged, but what we've created is basically what we call Inside BURNCO. The purpose of it behind it is to really give... WE obviously have our BURNCO consumer, social media accounts out there, but Inside BURNCO was really created for two things. It was, one, a place to launch all our social media recruitment campaigns. So like the ad you started at the end, that's some of the type of contents we'll reach out. The other is just to give a little bit of an insight of what it is to work inside BURNCO. We'll profile different employees, if we have events. That's one of the places that we put it on social media. Serge Boudreau: I'm looking going in 2020... A lot of it was controlled by me initially as a new concept, as far as I was the physical poster, but also with the limitation of time, it's been a challenge. So I really want to focus in 2020 putting a lot of content and looking how we can accomplish that. There's obviously a couple different ways and how we schedule with different tools out there. So I'm looking at that now, but I want it to feel authentic. I want it to feel real. I believe in automation, but I also believe in having a real clear message that's authentic and it feels like it's a real person in the back actually creating those posts. And it is, so it's just how we schedule and how we can make sure that we have enough content that is interesting and people want to follow because I see it as a way to keep expanding our talent community. When I say talent community, it's... Drivers is a perfect example. I always want to be nurturing a new pool of candidates, so when we need them, they're ready to go. One of those aspects is keeping them engaged through our social media channels. Chris Russell: Yeah. Very cool. You're also one of our Rejobify clients, so I want to thank you again for signing up for that service, so you can Rejobify your rejected candidates. I'm just curious from your perspective, Serge, why do you think that's such an important thing to do in terms of the candidate experience for every candidate that comes to your company and tries to apply? Serge Boudreau: I am a big believer that candidate experience is critical. That's from the minute they see their job ad to them not getting the job. Let's put in perspective is most people don't get the job. We get over 30,000 candidates a year, and we hire 500, so in reality, the great majority doesn't get a job. I heard somewhere actually in the last couple days, and I thought it was brilliant, is we're in the business of goodbyes. We're kind of breaking- Chris Russell: Rejection, yeah. Serge Boudreau: Yeah, rejection. We're kind of rejecting- Chris Russell: We're in the rejection business, yeah. Serge Boudreau: We are in the rejection business. It's kind of breaking up with a lot of people. In a lot of ways, it's telling them that it's us, not them sometimes because there's so many great candidates, but we can only hire so much. I have been blown away, and I'm not just telling you this but, obviously, you being involved in this service. This has been a fantastic tool for us. It's been something that has... Because I've been trying to figure out how can we help our job seekers in any way. A couple of ideas I come up before this tool was, well, maybe... We run landscape, our retail stores here in some parts of Canada. I'm like, "Well, maybe we give them a discount on the product as a thank you." And something that, obviously, I think for a lot of consumer brands that are everywhere, I think you should look at that and I think it's something that probably could be integrated with Rejobify, but when- Chris Russell: Yeah. We have a retail client, in fact, that gives a discount as well as part of their page to their eye care centers. They can take advantage of that in addition to the stuff on Rejobify, so it's a great idea. Serge Boudreau: Yeah. I think it's a brilliant idea for companies that are doing it. I decided, because we're not at where... and the type of roles that it's something that we will be potentially doing, but this is really if one person gets a job from the advice or the tools that Rejobify is giving them, it's a big win for us. It's interesting because you shared on LinkedIn yesterday one of the rejection emails. I loved it. I was actually going to comment, but then I got busy. Do you have any clue of what the candidate did? Did candidate respond to that? I'd be curious to see what the candidate said actually. That- Chris Russell: I don't know. Again, I found it online somewhere. I printed it out, and it was sitting in my stack of papers. When I was doing some cleaning over the holidays, I discovered it again. I was like, "I got to blog about this," so it was printed out in tiny, little text. I had to sit there for a good 20 minutes and type it out, but, yeah, I'm not sure what the candidate thought of it or not. But to me, if I'm- Serge Boudreau: Well, it gives you- Chris Russell: ... reading that, I'm smiling at the end of that thing. It's a kind of a neat way to- Serge Boudreau: 100%. Chris Russell: ... let down. Serge Boudreau: Well, it's interesting because 99% of the responses I get from candidates by... because I try to customize messaging in a very non-corporate talk. Obviously, it's customized, but not customized because I'll be sending out the message to say 300 people at once, but where ATS, obviously, their name and my name is stated, but I try to put it in real talk. I put the Rejobify offer as part of that. I would say 99% of the time, the feedback is amazing. Chris Russell: Have you gotten- Serge Boudreau: There is always that- Chris Russell: Have you gotten candidates that replied back and said, "Hey, thank you for this?" Serge Boudreau: Yes. Chris Russell: Awesome. Serge Boudreau: Plenty of examples. Chris Russell: Awesome. Serge Boudreau: I've also had candidates or very few. I had one yesterday that was insulted that they needed help as a job seeker. This was the second portion of the email because the first part is, "I'm fully qualified. I can't believe you're rejecting me." I get that. It's really frustrating. You look at a job. You think you're qualified, and you get a rejection email. It does hurt the ego in some ways. If I'm getting 200, there's chances are I'm going to be rejecting people that are qualified for the job. But they did it in a very, I would say, rude way and basically called our company unethical because she deserves an interview, which I'm like, "Well, maybe you should look at self-awareness." Chris Russell: Okay, yeah. Probably not the right candidate for BURNCO then. Serge Boudreau: Exactly, your entitlement. So I responded nicely to be like... Then she responded back. She's like, "On top of that, you think I'm not a good job seeker, so you're giving me these tools to help me look for a job." I'm like, "Yeah, you probably need it," but aside from that, the feedback has been great. You see the numbers of people that I send. It's a 30% conversion rate that they sign up, which is fantastic. I've really enjoyed it. It's something that's going to be part of my, I guess, tech stack for as long as I do because it's really cheap too. Chris Russell: Yeah. I guess that's a win-win for both. Serge Boudreau: Cheap is not the right word. Very inexpensive. Chris Russell: Cost-effective. Serge Boudreau: Yes, exactly. Chris Russell: There you go. Awesome. Well, Serge, we certainly appreciate your time today. I guess my last question for you as we end up today's podcast is what are you dying to try as far any kind of new HR tech or some other kind of marketing tactic for 2020 here? Serge Boudreau: Well, part of my 2020 was getting really hardcore metrics for a company that had no metrics. So we launch all our metrics through a partner, webTactics, here in Canada for... Everything is to Power BI, so everything that was spreadsheet is now automatically sent to Power BI. So everyone has access too, every executive. We are just launching Click Boarding here for our onboarding, which directly integrates with our ATS. So I'm very excited about getting that onboard because we don't have a great onboarding experience right now. I was not a believer in video interviewing. When I say video interviewing, it's the normal interview tools. I've been converted and- Chris Russell: You have. Wow. Serge Boudreau: Yeah, I have. I have because I think if you do it in a particular way, if someone just applies to your job, and you just send them a video, and there's no personality to it, it's like applying to a job and getting a assessment tool that basically takes 45 minutes to do. That's just a bad experience, but if someone on my team calls you, does a basic screening, be like, "Hey. We're going to send you a video interview to go through a little bit more detail," not too lengthy, it's actually cut our screening time dramatically. I also include a very personalized message from either the hiring manager or myself in that video. I let them do retakes, at least a couple of retakes. I think that's the biggest challenge sometimes is you get one shot. It is awkward. Video interviewing is awkward, but the flip side to it is on my... where I run a really efficient and small team for what we hire, it's a tool that's actually from what I've seen... I've just launched in the last couple weeks, has saved me a lot of time because I've been able to do that screening that would take me quite a long time over the phone. It's helped me shorten that period. Chris Russell: Nice. It just struck me too as we're talking is you're probably the one company that could use the company rockstar in their job ads. Serge Boudreau from- Serge Boudreau: We haven't. Okay? We had that internal discussion, and I decided not to because... I still go back to it. I'm like, "We should use rockstar." Chris Russell: There's probably a funny way of doing it somehow. Serge Boudreau: We should use it, but I just hate those titles like ninja, rockstar, all of them. But I could use it. You're right. You know what? If I do- Chris Russell: Yeah. I say it jokingly, but yeah. Serge Boudreau: If I do end up using it, I'm going to put it on you say, "From this podcast that you're giving me justification to do it." Chris Russell: There you go. The one company that can use it is BURNCO. There you go. Serge Boudreau: Exactly. Chris Russell: Awesome. Well, Serge, thanks again for joining me today. Tell people where to connect with you and BURNCO. Serge Boudreau: You can find me on LinkedIn, Serge Boudreau. I'm pretty easy to find even though it's a French name. For BURNCO, please check out our social media site so at Inside BURNCO on Facebook, Instagram, potentially TikTok coming. I'm pushing hard on that. Also, BURNCO.com/careers. You can see all our jobs. You can see everything we're doing with Vizi. Come check us out. Chris Russell: Awesome. I could talk to you all day, Serge. Again, thanks for your time. Serge Boudreau: Thank you. Chris Russell: That will do for this edition of the RecTech Podcast. Thanks again to my sponsors, WorkHere and Emissary. Subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcast. If you're an iTunes subscriber, leave a review, and I'll be sure to thank you on air. Thanks for listening, everyone, and remember always be recruiting. Speaker 2: Another episode of RecTech is in the books. Follow Chris on Twitter @ChrisRussel or visit RecTechMedia.com where you can find the audio and links for this show on our blog. RecTech Media helps keep employers and recruiters up to date through our podcast, webinars, and articles. So be sure to check out our other sites, Recruiting Headlines and HR Podcasters to stay on top of recruiting industry trends. Thanks for listening, and we'll see you soon on the next episode of RecTech, the recruiting technology podcast.

Learn More About The Content Discussed...No Boss Talk:https://nobosstalk.comMichelle Cunningham Website:https://MichelleCunninghamOnline.comMichelle’s Instagram:@directsalesmichelleThe Camp Elevate Facebook Group:hereBeth’s Instagram:@bethholdengravesBeth’s website:https://www.bethholdengraves.comProfit HER Way Course:https://www.bethholdengraves.com/profitKeynotes discussed:She's earned a six figure income consistently and led a network marketing team to over eight figures in sales, hosting home parties and Facebook parties. (01:31)I'm tired of saying I'm shy. Yes, you're shy, but don't say that to yourself. Like shy is just another word for insecure.(07:21)Then all of a sudden introvert Michelle who went from being shy to being bold is like we've got a system and it's working. So how did that look?(10:52)All I learned is change your story, make it super inspirational and then at the end give them two options.(13:14)I want to talk about owning your awesome, and that when someone owns their story, and someone has confidence, and it takes time.(16:10)When Did It Air...January 06, 2020Episode Transcript...Beth:Welcome to ‘You’re Not the Boss of Me’. If you are determined to break glass ceilings and build it your way, this show is for you. I’m your host Beth Graves and I am obsessed with helping you to not just dream it, but make the plan, connect the dots and create what you crave. Are you ready? Let’s get started.Hello. Hello and welcome to episode number 19. And Happy New Year, If you're listening to this in real time. So today I am so excited because I have been stalking Michelle Cunningham. She is my guest and you are going to love her Own Your Awesome. And you will walk away, literally fired up like pulling your car over to the side of the road and getting started taking action after this podcast. So let me tell you a little bit about Michelle and then we'll bring her on. She teaches network marketers around the world to successfully build their business through Facebook parties, home parties, and using the power of video. So after you see this wonder woman on YouTube, you are going to see the power and the impact. She's called the queen of video branding for direct sellers and teaches you to Own Your Awesome to have a massive impact for success. She's been involved in the industry for 16 years. She's earned a six figure income consistently and led a network marketing team to over eight figures in sales, hosting home parties and Facebook parties. So she's playful. She's on YouTube. She's so much fun. She's made an impact with thousands and thousands and thousands of network marketers. And so here she is. Let's talk to Michelle Cunningham.So, Hey everyone. I am so excited because I have been stalking. She's my new best friend. She doesn't know it yet. I sent her like a half a heart necklace. Her name is Michelle Cunningham and I literally have been watching her for months and months and months, obsessing over her content, her energy, her YouTube channel. And so, you know, I asked for everything so I thought, I'm just going to ask Michelle, she's super famous if she would hop on this podcast to help us hear more about how she's built her business in direct sales and thousands of others with her quirky, honest, but deliberate presence on YouTube and on social media, and just being an awesome pink princess. So hello Michelle!Michelle:Hi. That was quite the introduction.Beth:Well you didn't know like I always like to admit that I'm stalking someone because it's just weird if you don't, right?Michelle:Yeah, well I stalk people too so I totally get it.Beth:I know I just, I study, I love to study success and so I know that we have some people that may not have been introduced to you yet and now they are. And I'm super excited because after meeting you and talking with you, and we're going to give you guys this offer at the end, is I'm going to do the YouTube thing this year, and I have like seriously dark videos that are sharing my sticky note challenge and you've inspired me. So can you give us a little bit of history? I know that for those of you that, you know I said it on the intro, but give us the real version. How did you get started? When did you start realizing that the video presence was really a thing to build the business? So give us the scoop. Who are you? What do you do? Yeah, all that jazz.MichelleAll right, well I'll give you the quick background because I feel like a background is really important. I grew up incredibly poor. My mom was a single mom so I came from very little. I had two brothers and myself and everything I've ever had for in life I've had to pay for on my own. And so I grew up always wanting to be like the kids who just had like Pantene shampoo and fresh apples. So just to put it in perspective, like where I live now and what my life is like is not what I grew up as. And so I'm very thankful for life, the journey. But I'm also, it's what drove me. It was realizing like, I don't want to have a moldy basement and like snakes in my basement and have a house, I'm embarrassed by. I want to have more and so...I went to college, paid my way through college, and then entered direct sales into my life. I got my first job as a pharmaceutical sales rep and then I landed at an event, and it was a direct sales event. My coworker's wife invited me and I'm there in this hotel room, the holiday Inn, and there's a lady in the room claiming to make six figures. Another one's a millionaire, another one's driving a free car. And I'm like, dude, this is either a fantastic opportunity or this is a scam. So I went home and I told my mom at 23 years old, and she goes, Oh yeah, honey, a hundred percent scam. Do not get involved. I was not doing it. And then a week later I remembered that I was 23 and at 23 you don't listen to your mom. So I signed up anyway. And that was 16 years ago, 17 years ago.And so when I joined, there was no text message. There was no Facebook. And so they said, how you're going to build your business, honey, 23 year old, you're going to go up to strangers in parking lots, and like, Oh, that's horrifying. People doing that. Like I'm an introvert, I don't like to bother you. I don't like to be in people's way. It's just who I am. I want everyone to like me. That's just my personality, right? So the idea of approaching a stranger and having them yell at me was like my worst nightmare. And so I, for the next six years, did not tell anyone. I was involved in network marketing like for six years. But in that six years I studied it. I looked up ideas, I ordered my full inventory, I was ready to go, but I did nothing for six years. I think I held like a party or two.Beth:Wait, wait, wait, wait. I gotta repeat that. You guys six years of studying. And so many people are like, Oh, I just, I mean I was that person, Michelle, that I bought every kit, signed up for a billion things and didn't study, didn't do a thing until, you know, when I launched the current business that I'm in. But I didn't know it was six years. What made you keep holding on?Michelle:Yeah, it's just a fantastic part of the story. And it always, when I'm sharing in front of an audience, they're like, you gave me hope. Because I've been, you know, 5 years, I haven't started. I'm like, Oh you're fine, you're actually ahead of me. So for six years I loved the dream of it, but I was too shy and too nervous to approach people, you know? And I was like, but I loved it. But I was like, but I can't. And so it was self talk, this negative self talk that I had, that I don't want to bother people. I don't want to, you know. And, in that six years I tried, it's not like I did nothing. It's like I'd study an idea and then I call my recruiter. I'm like, maybe let's do your mall thing. You said we could do a scavenger hunt.Then we'd go do the mall thing. And so we'd go up to people and I actually met a lady who said, Oh my gosh, your sell for that company? I would love to host a party with you. And I'm like, really? Okay. But I got home and I was too nervous to call her. Talk about, this is not going to work. And I called her the day before the party to confirm because I was nervous. But she was like, I never heard from you. What would make you think I am going to host a party with you? And I was like, you're right. Okay, bye. So little like mouse Michelle. One day I made a decision at 29 I was fed up enough with my corporate job and I think that's when you see someone make a big change where I was like, you know what, I'm tired of being a mouse.I'm tired of saying I'm shy. Yes, you're shy, but don't say that to yourself. Like shy is just another word for insecure. There's all of these things. I was telling myself they were not serving me and I thought, you know what? What makes me different from that girl over there that's wildly confident? She just acts confident. Why don't I just start doing that? Why don't I just like stop caring and let's just like do this? Because I just made that very conscious decision. And it was January, 2009 yeah, 2009, and I went online and I found someone that worked for the company that I had signed up with. She was not my recruiter, but they have a we'll help you no matter what thing. So she, when I met her, what was amazing about this lady is, she changed my life forever because when I met her, she's 4ft 11in, tiny. She wears short, spiky hair. She doesn't wear a ton of makeup. She's not loud. She's not bold. She's not crazy. She suffers from social anxiety disorder. She fainted at her first home party.Yes, And over three weeks. Yeah. You're like, that doesn't sound like a good mentor. But see, she earned over $3 million in her career and was driving the top level car. And I was like, Oh, okay, so you're a little broken. I'm a little broken. If you can do this, maybe I could do this. And so it was in meeting her, then I met someone that wasn't perfect. Sometimes you meet people in this industry and they're perfect and they talk perfect and they smile and perfect and you're like, that's scary and weird. So she was normal. And so she taught me her system. She said, if you don't want to call people then just text people, you know, just do whatever it's going to work for you. Just find a way. And I was like, wait, I can do that. And so I actually started texting people, in that first month I made $1,000 not knowing what I was doing.Six months later, I made over $5,000, built a team of 50. A few months after that I had earned a car. That month I earned another free insurance, and then earned another car a few months later. And then four years later I learned a system that taught me how to recruit like crazy. And I taught that to my team and we went from a hundred people on my team to over a thousand and it changed my life forever. We became an eight figure sales team. My team did over eight figures in sales and just crazy, crazy. But it's just crazy to think that for that long I struggled, but it was just one day to saying, you know what? I'm fed up enough. We're just going to like make this work. Yeah. So that was the beginning.Beth:Well, and okay, a couple of things that I love is, you notice that she wasn't perfect and I think that that just like made my face light up. Even though we're on a podcast, you can't see it, because that's what I think that vulnerability of you on video is. You're the real deal in showing up and saying, we may not be perfect. And I say that all the time, is like I built my business with sticky notes because I couldn't figure out how to use the Excel spreadsheet, and I've got like, my drunk uncle was driving me around when I was trying to use systems. And you also said find what works for you but have some way that you are booking, like in your case, booking the parties, booking the shows, booking the online events. So you said something to that. I know everyone was like yeah, pulling over to the side of the road, getting out their notes on their phone. You said you developed a system that worked for your team. Do you want to talk a little bit about that? Because that's a Renegade. You are in a company that had been around forever, like the beginning of time. Everyone knew that person that had earned that car in town and then all of a sudden introvert Michelle who went from being shy to being bold is like we've got a system and it's working. So how did that look? Can you share a little bit of what that time looked like? And what you guys all did?Michelle:Absolutely. So that fourth year I had been sitting at a team of about a hundred. I was pretty consistently making about $5,000 a month and I heard a speaker that year that said, or at an event. And the one thing that I took away, she said, Hey guys, I believe that while you're on this earth you should make as much money as humanly possible. And I was like, wait, where's she gonna go with this? I don't know if that, you know, the the poor girl in me. It was like, I don't want to, I don't know if I want to hear this...because I believe that you should live completely debt free. And I was like, okay, I can get on board with that. And then I also believe you should have tons of savings for your future. I said okay, I like that you said. And I then believe you should live below your means.I do. I like to shop at target and resale shop. And you should give back frequently, generously, and anonymously. And that last line of frequently, generously and anonymously, I said to myself, Michelle, you need to step up your game. You could be helping so many more people right now. You have enough to provide for you and your family. How many more humans could you help if you decide to step up your game because the fact that you got to where you are, what if we did that same amount of crazy work like over and over and over again. And I thought, Hmm, I need it. I need to find something. And it was like a God thing. I was on Facebook that night and this cute little blonde appeared on my screen and it was a Facebook ad and she was just pretty, I just clicked on her and I said, let me see what she's all about, cute little blonde thing. And it was Sarah Robbins from Rodan and Fields, the number one seller for Rodan and Fields, and she's making like $1 million a month. I mean, it's just like something, or million dollars. I don't, it's something so insane that you're like, okay, let me learn from you a little human. So I clicked on that.Beth:I love, Love you to learn from you little human. I love it.Michelle:Yes literally, because she was just a little thumbnail is what I mean. She was a little person on my screen. I clicked on the little human and I ordered her book, which is How to Rock Your Network Marketing Business.Beth:That was my first book! I bought too! Oh my gosh, this is crazy. Yeah, that's it. It's tattered and it's highlighted and every, yes, yes, yes. Okay, keep going. I love it.Michelle:So I read the book and all I learned, you don't have to go read the book, I'll just tell you what it is. All I learned is change your story, make it super inspirational and then at the end give them two options. You can join my team today, if you decide not to do that, you can take home products. Those were two things I was missing. I was missing the inspirational story. I had a ho hum story. It was kind of inspirational but not really. So I changed my story to be like, I was the number one person in all of my company. I Owned My Awesome. So I made it like I was in a play with this amazing story and I'm glad to share it if you wanna hear how I roll it out. But yeah, that story. And then at the end I said option one, join my team.Oh, and that's the best deal of all. And then if you decide not to do that, you can take home products. And I usually was just selling product, product, product. And then after I would invite them to meet for coffee after they liked the product. This whole long three week process, which sort of was effective, but I was like, wait, if I could sign people up on the spot. And so I rolled this out for the first time in March, 2000 and gosh, I don't remember what year. But it was, I don't know, six years ago. And I roll this out and my first appointment, I had a lady over to my house, tried the product, I did my arrogance story at the beginning and it was, it was like arrogant, but I was doing what I was reading in the book and I had practiced it all day. And at the end she goes, okay. And I give her options. She goes, okay, so here's what I've decided. I'd like to join your team and I'd like to buy the whole skin care system.And I was like, ah, what the heck just happened? I'm like, that's not definitely supposed to happen. I'm like, you do want it? Yeah. And in my head I'm like, just Michelle, write it up, sign her up, sell her the thing, just do it. So I do. And she goes home inspired, which is what was different. She went home inspired and she told her husband about this inspirational woman that lived a few towns over that was on fire. It was, you know, changing your life. And the next day she called, my husband wants me to get the whole package. He wants me to get started now, because he was inspired. I had never had someone do that before. And it was in that moment that I believe like God was knocking on my head like Michelle, do more of that be loud, because by you being loud and you being proud, you can impact people's lives, you can change their financial situation.And so I had to stop being introverted Michelle and say, okay, I need to be awesome because by me being awesome, I can impact lives. And so the next lady came over that day with her husband and at the end her husband goes, yeah, you should just sign up. And so she joined my team that month. Following that system, I recruited 22 reps personally and my team followed the same system and they recruited another 20. So in one month we brought in 42 new reps to my team, of like a hundred, that's sitting at a hundred for four years. And I was like, that was awesome. Let's do that again. And so we did, we did it again, did it again. And that year I earned the top level car. We had five people become the top 1% of the company. I mean everything changed, right? I went to London that year. I mean just everything, massive movement because of a tiny little shift Owning Our Awesome lead with the opportunity to default to the products. It was such a simple idea. Yet it made such an impact.Beth:I was like, I have chills because so many times that I want to talk about Owning Your Awesome. And that when someone owns their story, and someone has confidence, and it takes time. Those of you that are listening today and you're thinking, but I haven't had the success yet. I don't have that voice that Michelle has or that Beth has. You can be that person, and there's visualization, and seeing yourself on that stage, and there's creating that story that allows you to Own Your Awesome. So I think you might be able to walk us through, if someone wants to walk away from this podcast and Own They're Awesome, and they're being coached by you. what would you tell them?Michelle:I would say to them, and I said this in my group the other day. I said, guys, what is the most you've ever sold at one party or in one day? What is the dollar amount? One girl wrote $1600 and another girl wrote $300 another girl wrote $800, and I said, do you have any idea that the average person out there, that an extra $200 a month would dramatically change their financial situation? Like do you have any idea? And the fact that you can host the party or you can be in front of humans and then two hours of your time you can make $200? That is mind blowing to most humans. That is literally mind blowing. And so if you have a story like that, like in the chat when I shared this, girls were like, Oh yeah, I made $800 in two hours. I'm like, you should be at the every appointment. Yeah, like hanging from the roof, swinging on a Tarzan rope saying, guys, I'm a big deal!I made $800 dollars, I made $400 in two hours. Whatever it is, that is such a huge story. And so putting that dollar amount into your story can make such a huge impact and can really inspire someone. So I always tell people, throw a dollar amount in there. What did you do in a two hour time span or in a day time span, one week I made this money, whatever it is, put your marketing hat on. And you know, as women, we're taught to not be arrogant, but I would say, no, no, this is Owning Your Awesome, and this is going to change lives. So put that away, the arrogance part of it and just Own Your Awesome and share those stories.Beth:And I just had this vision, because I've talked Michelle into being at real life camp. We're going to have a Tarzan rope and we are going to do an Own Your Awesome activity. We're swinging from the rope. I mean I think we should have one in our offices. I love it. Okay. So we're at this point of your business, you're teaching women to own their stories, to lead with the business, to really be real about what's happening in the direct selling network marketing industry. And that was what I needed to know for me to finally say yes and go all in what was possible and why not me? So you've got this team and you're rolling and a lot of what you were doing because of your business was a party plan business. And then you transitioned to a lot of online coaching, training and parties.Can you talk about that transition for those people that might not have the opportunity? And I always, I want to preface this, you guys, you always have the opportunity to be in a person's living room. And I know that we see a lot of things that say, build online. Never leave your house, never talk to your neighbor. But I will always tell you to earn multiple seven figures. I was willing, I wanted to be connecting with that neighbor because I know that in person and online sharing what Michelle just shared, swinging from the Tarzan rope, changing lives is in person. It's online, it's everywhere. If you are passionate, right Michelle?Michelle:It's 100%, and I built so much in my business in person, you know, then I did transition. I did a lot online. I had a lot of success online. But I, most of my clients, all that reorder from, it's all mostly in person. Yes I do get people that find me on YouTube and stuff like that. But it started, and I yes, I 100% agree with you in person. So great. And it's so good for introverts like me to be in front of people because if I'm not in front of people, I find for me it's like a muscle, I can get just quiet and not really want to be around people. And so for me, I kind of force myself to be in front of people to learn human interaction. Because I just sometimes, I just want to be home. I just want to do my thing. So getting out and challenging yourself will make you a more confident person. That's what I found and it brought me success.Beth:Well and I say to people, if I told you that your income would double, triple, that you would impact your family's life, be able to impact the lives of others because you were willing to go to that event, to go and meet with that one person. I remember early in my career, we had had a tough summer and I was tired and I was supposed to get on an airplane and go to Vegas and there was a team growing there and I made it. I think that was when I saw a rising leader, I would get on an airplane and go and meet that person in person, meet their friends, help with the event. It was an investment I was willing to make and I almost canceled this event. I thought, Ugh, I don't really want to fly that. And then my husband said, they are responsible for the money that you're making, your personal actions are, but this team is waiting for you.And I have to say, Michelle, I heard a story at that event from one of the promoters on my team and I journaled about it. And it was how the product had helped her overcome grief. And she shared with me how much she wanted to tell me that in person. And I literally said, I will never miss the opportunity to be in front of people. And it has been what drives me. So let's fast forward, because we're now quite a few years later and now you're this YouTube sensation. You've got this following that is like crazy cult like. You needed to get your systems into the hands of many. You are called to do that. So how did it go from your team to worldwide people just finding you and saying, Michelle, give me what you've got. How did you make that transition and how does your business look today?Michelle:So, it's such a great question because it wasn't ever my intention. I believe that God had a hand in this. Like there's no other good explanation and you know, depending on what your beliefs are, the universe whatever. But literally, six years ago, as an introvert, I said I'm going to start a YouTube channel. Why? Because at that time I was a little bored with my business. So you know how you have a month where you're like, I just feel bored. What can I do in my spare time? I was bored. My son was like three, so I wasn't exhausted and I think it was pregnant, like I'm going to start a little YouTube channel. Or maybe it was right before I started to get pregnant with the next one. And so I have a little, you know, I had downtime, and I don't like downtime.I don't like to watch movies. I get bored, I like to work. And so I'll start a YouTube channel, I'll just make a video. And initially I was like, I don't know what I'll make it about. Maybe I'll make it about organizing. And they made a few videos. That channel still exists. It has 900 followers. I made eight videos about organizing. It's the stupidest videos ever because I don't like organizing, not like I have a very organized office, but my house, you know it's not. So it was funny though, I was making that channel and it stressed me out cause I had to clean before I filmed, and then I was like this isn't my jam. And then one day I was like, but I really like to talk about network marketing and direct sales. Why don't I just do that?Until I started to put out what I was doing. I was just sharing my tips and I could not believe it, but people were like messaging me at 3:00 AM in the morning, and my inbox saying, Michelle, your video just totally changed my life. It changed my business. I love you forever. Oh my gosh, you're so amazing. Do you have more stuff? And I was like, I'll make more videos, I'll make some more. And I just literally for six years, I just kept putting out new videos. I tried to aim for once a week putting out a video, and that was my goal, and I didn't always hit it. I mean, you know, it was sometimes two weeks or three weeks, but I just tried to put out content. Okay. I did not think anything else beyond that. Never thought it would ever turn into else. Well, crazy.But I got a call from a company, they said, Hey Michelle, we found you on YouTube. Can you come and train our sales force or a brand new startup network marketing company? I was like, Whoa, that's awesome. And I was like, sure. And they're like, how much is your fee? I said to my husband, how much? He's like, just say something outrageous. I'm like, well, I wouldn't go there for, I'll say $2,500.00. He's like, yeah, just say that. I said that. And they said, sure. And I was like, Oh, my word, this is awesome. Right? So, say that, go and speak to the company. And a few weeks before I go, they said, Michelle, do you have any training materials? We'd like to purchase your training materials? And I was like, purchase, like I just do free training.What's this purchase stuff? Okay, yeah, I'll make a CD. So I literally went into my son's bedroom. I don't know why, that's where I recorded it. I just remember it must have been quiet in there. But I recorded my first training. It was how to generate leads and then I recorded another one, how to host a home party, how to recruit like crazy, all my secrets on three CDs and I had some artwork made and I got a thousand of them printed. And those have gone on to sell. I think 7,000 of the lead generation have been sold, you know, just crazy numbers. But it all started with that little thing and I was like, Oh, I could sell something. That's interesting. And so then, this January I decided to start running Facebook ads. I was like, maybe these could help more people.So I started to run Facebook ads and then we started to sell like a really lot of them and I was like, well maybe I could make a course. So this new business of mine just kind of started this year where it was like half CDs, but maybe I'll do some courses. So you know, I host Facebook live parties. My first one I ever hosted, we recruited 20 people in 45 minutes and we sold over $20,000 as a team. And everyone was asking me how I did that. I said, I'll make a little course about it called Mastering the LIVES. I made this course and put it out there. And I realized at that moment that when that course launched, I realized that God had said to me, Michelle, your calls are your next level, like I know that I gave you the success in network marketing but now you are called to something bigger.And I like pushed back for 10 months. I did. I said, you know what? No, I'm just, I'll just keep doing both. And I was doing both and trying to manage team and then building courses and, and it was a lot, but I just was like, no, I would go into the top of network marketing. That's what I'm doing. And he's like, but you don't understand. I've given you like literally seven times the income than this other thing. What are you doing? And so I had to honor that and say, you know what? I think you're right. I think I love training people. I love making videos. I love changing lives. I just want to do that. And I have literally like, that's all I want to do. And I made the very difficult decision to leave a team of a thousand reps, eight figures, sales team.Like, I mean, people are like, have you lost your mind? I'm like, well no. I mean it sounds silly that you would leave something this big, but I grew something that was infinitely bigger that required less of my energy. That 100% filled my cup. Yeah. And brought me 100% joy. And I live a life now that I'm like, this is my dream. I'm with my kids all the time. I make videos, I change lives and I absolutely love it and I never thought any of that would happen. But I will tell you, I have, I talked about this with Beth and she'll reveal, but I've got something coming out that reveals how I use video, and not knowing, I just did it to be nice. But that video changed my life forever, and my financial situation forever. And I now am so passionate about showing other people the power of video. You just put out free content, you help people and you accidentally make a following. It was all an accident, but it was a pretty awesome accident that happened to me and I want to show people how to accidentally do what I've done because it's awesome.Beth: I love it. And so when I look back at give back frequently, generously, and anonymously, you are not, you know, God's knocking on your head saying, look, we need to impact more people so that we can make this, not just you giving back in big ways, but teaching others to give back in big ways. The other thing I love Michelle is, you went to the top, you learned to lead, you learned what the frustration was of your people. So that, as a mentor and a coach, like you waited to coach until you had basically done it all and said, okay, I'm called to do more to impact more. And you did show up in my feed on a Facebook ad and I saw the pink office of yours. And I was like, who is this? Who is this? She's so darn cute. Who is this little person? I need to learn from her! Who is this little human? And there's so many ways that our lives run parallel. And so I'm really, really excited. Two, I'm diving in to your video launch course. We're going to put in the show notes, and what is it called again? What's the specific name of it?Michelle:It's called video creator classroom. Yes. And there's also a Facebook group.Beth:So I'm all in because one of the things entrepreneurial add that I have is, Oh, I'll start a YouTube channel. Oh, I'll do this. Oh, I'll do that. So I'm saying it here, because then people will hold me to it. That my commitment is to go all in with podcast content and YouTube content. So I'm all in, I can't wait to get started on the content and I'm following directions. I'm not doing it my way. I'm going to learn from the best. And I hope those of you listening, I can understand that free content. I have people even with my YouTube channel that will grow this year, but I made a tiny little video before we even knew how to turn our phones or have ring lights. And that one video has so many views. And I've recruited many people who have reached out to me to say, Hey, could I join your team? And I was like, what? Like out of the blue, right? You get these messages. So imagine that content that we find. So it's free, right? It's free to be on YouTube.Michelle:It's free. I had a girl, and I forgot to share this, she found me online and joined my team and added over 700 people to my downline. 700 people. And so yeah, those were the things as it was making the channel, I was like, wait, this is awesome. So you know that was happening. I was like, I can't believe this is happening. So the blessings that came from the videos, I mean there's no way my team would have grown to the size it did without her and without a few hundred people in it found me online.Beth:So this power of YouTube brings you high quality leads. and the lesson I'm taking away is do it before you feel ready. Going into your son's room, making that CD back in the CD days and saying yes before you had a perfect presentation. And then that shift that was like, you know what, I need to impact more people and I need to get out of my comfort zone and build a life for my family and for the legacy. I love those pieces. So we're going to close with one question and those of you that want to join us in this course, it is going to be Epic. I'm telling you. And we're going to give you a link below that you can get in because it's pretty new, right Michelle? This is like the first group, brand new.Michelle:Yep. So we had our pilot group go through it, and it is so great. It's just fantastic and people are just loving it and life changing things happening. So exciting. So, so yes, now the pilot groups run through it. It's ready to launch. So it's gonna launch in the next few weeks here. We're just getting all the emails ready and everything. But yeah, it's going to be fantastic.Beth:I love it. And where else? Tell them how to find you on YouTube. Find you on Instagram, Facebook, all the good things. Where do we find you? And then I have one big question to close with, so don't get nervous.Michelle:Okay, got it. So @directsalesmichelle is me on YouTube and on Instagram. And MichelleCunningham.com is my website. I just got my full name. I was so excited.Beth:That's really exciting. Did you wait a long time for your name or did you have to negotiate it? Okay.Michelle:Someone owned it. There was a girl that was a stripper that owned it to be totally honest, and I know, and then I called Wix a few weeks ago and they're like, ma'am, your name is available. I'm like, no, a stripper owns it. He goes, no, no, it's available. And I'm like, what do you mean? He's like, yeah, I have it for $600 or $700. I'm like, well, I kind of want that. I'm like, you think I can get a deal? And anyway, the stripper didn't give me a deal, but yeah, it doesn't matter. I got my name now.Beth:So a stripper owned your YouTube chat, I mean your website.Michelle:Yeah. Oh yeah. So I own Michelle Cunningham online, and then now I have Michelle Cunningham, but I haven't transferred everything over. But Michelle Cunningham redirects you to Michelle Cunningham online.Beth:I love it. I love it. Okay, here is your question. For people listening today that are ready, that need to take an action there where you were during those years of sitting around thinking, yeah, one day, maybe I'll do it. Still doing what they're not loving that they're doing. What are three things that after they finish their workout because we're in their ears or we're in the car. Three things that you can tell them to do today that will lead them to do that success that you are speaking of. Getting to the top of the company, doing all the things, having the freedom?Michelle:So three things. Number one, I would set a schedule, my life dramatically changed and I said, you know what, I'm going to hold appointments Friday at 6:00PM, 8:00PM and Saturday at 10, 12 and 2. I set a schedule and that was it. Those are the little windows that I worked, but that made such a huge impact. I got so much done in the Friday, Saturday that I worked my business. I booked appointments all during the week, but I knew on Friday and Saturday that's when I got dressed, got out of the house, did my thing. So that's number one. Set a schedule and make it. I used to do Tuesday afternoon, Friday mornings, Sunday, Thursday. And my family is like, are you going to be home today? Like no one knew anything. So when they finally knew every Friday, mommy's busy, every Saturday, mommy's busy.There was so much harmony that brought to our family. Number two, I would say positive affirmations all day long. I think as women we just are always overthinking things. So I think fill your cup with things that motivate you. I like to watch crazy people online. Gary Van Der Chuck, he swears a lot, but I do like his message. And so finding people online that have a powerful message. The Tony Robbins of the world, the Sarah Robbins, the really motivational people out there. Follow those people and absorb what they say. And my last tip would be run your own race. Run your own race. Don't look left or right. I think that when you think about what other people are doing and you're worried about what they're doing, it doesn't matter. They're on their own train track. You're on your own train track and your train track is moving. Your train is moving on your track at the rate it's supposed to move and you can make it move faster.But it doesn't matter what people do to the left or right of you. And that includes the people on your team. One person cannot dictate your success. Other people's trains have taken a break and they're having a snack somewhere. That's just fine. You keep your train moving. And so I always stayed in a very happy state because I personally worked my business and I didn't look left or right. I'm so disconnected to the world like, you know what's going on in the world. I don't watch the news, I don't watch other people and I just do my thing because I'm out here just Owning My Awesome. And I recommend the same for you because you can't really think when you don't know anything. It's great.Beth:Okay, the name of this podcast episode will be, Own Your Awesome with Michelle Cunningham. I have notes covering my desk. Michelle. This connection is so amazing because I know that, I already decided we're friends forever. Okay?Michelle:Done. When am I getting my necklace? I want to get the hat. It's actually really funny. That would actually be really fun. I totally feel the same connection to you. So like I want you to know, it's not like you're the weird friend that just likes me. I feel the same way. I also, I'm feeling like, my new best friend. I totally love her. So we're still on the same page and you're such a rock star, and you're so amazing in all that you do. And I just commend you and I am really, I've got to learn about podcasting from you because I want to start one and I've been dragging my feet a little, so it'll be good.Beth:I'll teach you podcasting. It's been such a great connection and so I want to challenge you guys to...I'm just, I'm going to go over, set a schedule positive affirmations and run your own race and just get started. Michelle is a perfect example. Before she was ready, before she had a plan, before she had the perfect pink office. But you guys are gonna be so jealous of the pink office and just do it. Get yourself started and ready and put out the free content and Own Your Awesome. Thank you Michelle. And we'll catch you guys all next week on You're Not the Boss of Me.Oh my goodness. How awesome. How awesome was Michelle today you guys? So let me just ask you to do this for me. Let's get some Instagram love today. So please screenshot this and tag us both @bethholdengrades and @directsalesmichelle and let us know that you loved this episode today. Also, there is still time. This is so exciting that ProfitHER Way is launching this month. We have so much to do and preparing your profit plan, helping you to make money your way. So go ahead and go over to bethholdengraves.com/profit if you are ready to be a part of a powerful mastermind and getting your plan in place for 2020. And as always, I'll see you over at Camp Elevate.Thanks so much for hanging with me today on the podcast and remember, you can create what you crave. If you're looking for a supportive sisterhood, I would love to see you over in our free Facebook group. As most of you know, I love camp. It's part of, 'You're Not the Boss of Me' because when we're building this thing, we're doing this thing. We need a supportive sisterhood and I also crave more fun and more connection. Join us at camp over in the Facebook world, thecampelevategroup.com or just click on the link above and we will see you around our campfire and help you to create what you crave.

This week's episode is a special one recorded AT the Evidence Based Birth Conference in Lexington, KY, where Dr. Sayida Peprah delivered two powerful keynote addresses. In this interview, Dr. Sayida discusses the importance of being authentic, humble, and curious when interacting with others from different cultures or circumstances.   TRANCRIPT: Sara: Welcome, Dr. Sayida, to the Birth Words podcast. It's a pleasure to have you here.   Dr. Sayida: Thank you.   Sara: I wanted to talk with you a little bit about some of the really important work you're doing around cultural humility and helping birth workers being aware of how they can support those who have been really victims of transgenerational trauma. And so my question for you is, what guidelines would you give to birth workers who are striving to show through their language that they are culturally competent, sensitive and humble? How do they show that in their spoken interactions with their clients?   Dr. Sayida: I think one of the most important things to me like as a psychologist who really, one of the most important parts of my work, especially working with people, typically in very intense situations when I'm coming in, or I'm being invited in or I'm being asked to be there, or they're being brought to me because there's like been a crisis … We don't know each other and there's a lot of intensity. I need to make like a very strong, immediate rapport so that we can like help solve the situation. So whether that's been like with the incarcerated population, and there's like aggression or frustrations going on, and the domestic violence shelter, I used to work in a center where women were coming directly from their abusive situation right to the emergency shelter where I was a therapist, and a psychiatric hospital working with people who had just attempted to take their life or just been brought in by family members out of concerns. And so, in all the various situations, there isn't time to like, get to know each other, and I have to be effective at showing people that I actually care and that I'm listening to them and that I don't have any overt biases against them. Most pertinently, like why they're coming in like oh, that you were in an abusive relationship to start with, or that you found yourself in prison to start with, or that you tried to take your life, or cut yourself or whatever. So that comes into play a lot. And what I think is most important is that I actually do care. So it's nothing that I do that's like a guideline, it's not a script. It's not like let me check and make sure that I do anything in particular, that I like, center myself, and I go into a space of like common humanity, where a person has found themselves in a very difficult situation. And I am like, blessed to be able to be with them at like their lowest moment and be with them, like as a human. And then I have some skills and some tools to help them through whatever it is. And to me that's not very different. And how I approach being a doula, which is outside of that practice in that work, but with the same energy of your person who is going through—and a lot of times its first time moms that are coming to want to have a doula, or women who've had experiences in birth and people who've had experiences that didn't actually reflect for them what they wanted in their first birth. So they're really coming like, I need support, right? When you come to a doula like, I want help right in some ways, and so, how do I show you that you don't have to be guarded with me? That you don't have to worry about trust issues because I have some other agenda, is that I don't have another agenda, right? Like I have to…really human beings really detect BS. Like we are like, masters at that, and especially people that have historical disparities, historical trauma, especially if it's race related, if they're marginalized populations, like they know, by protection and resilience of the community, like you teach every generation like you've noticed, ways that people protect themselves and dominant, like aggressive, potentially harmful spaces. And so that's a way of being that a lot of people have wherever they are marginalized, whether that's because of their gender identity, sexuality, whether it's race and culture, whether it's religion… of this, like, are you a safe person for me to be with people come with a guard, because they've had experience that they're not safe. And so how you show that they don't have to be is that you actually just have like, ease with them like, but you have to develop that as a person, right, in your own time. Like, you've got to know various types of people and I always tell people you need to think about the people that you're most uncomfortable working with. And get to know people who are in that lifestyle, whatever that looks like. And maybe especially with technology, it might look like just being familiar with images, documentaries, stories, like real ones, not like stereotyped characters of groups, but like watch things and read things that are from the community you're interested in and hear perspectives. So then you can learn like the world view, the experience, like listen to presenters, you know, that talk about you know, historical trauma or talk about how it is to be a queer person in the birth world and not be accepted, or even like talked about in general space but yet you're there and yet you're pregnant and yet you need support and that maybe there are birth workers that you know, have that you know, that you can be safe with, like how could you ever know that? But you could know that by the way people use language in open space, like if they're in a crowd of people like who they say hi to, like people notice that like if you're a bunch of people and there are people you feel uncomfortable with you typically avoid people you feel uncomfortable with. And I talked about that a bit and the implicit bias part that we talked about the other day, that people's eye contact is different, that their proximity is different to people that they don't feel comfortable with. And people notice that people, certain people avoid them often. And then it's like, oh, well, didn't seem too friendly. So probably not going to be the birth worker that I'm going to go to for this. Yeah. But the ones that are openly open and friendly and look you in your eye and greet you like basic human stuff, it is not deep. It's just real. And so the question is like, if you want to be if you have the question of how do I be more culturally congruent to work with a population that I don't know? That question means that you are not comfortable either because you haven't had opportunities to gain comfort, which is not necessarily a fault of your own. It could be demographics, situations, and we talked about the here at this conference was really interesting because certain people live in worlds that they, you know, maybe the first black person that they ever met was when they were in college, right. And so they had to leave where they were from and never had an experience where people are different outside of the TV, you know, and so like, you're going to have stereotypes. But being able to have experiences where you could sort of work out your discomfort on your own time and not work on your clients time, right? Which is not amazing to be like, “Oh, my gosh, I’ve never worked with a black family! Like, I hope I can do the best I can!” I mean, I feel your love and you're wanting to be helpful, but I also feel like I don't know what it means that you never work in a black family and that, like you're hoping you're going to be like that everything's gonna go okay, right. What does that mean? Like, are we different kind of human? And what does that mean for you? Yes, there are cultural things, but like, if that's like how you come to it, I feel like you should… And I don't want to say I don't think that certain people shouldn't work with certain people in that way. But you need to, if you are not comfortable working with certain people you create harm in the interactions through micro aggressions through, like inter personal in congruence, like you did something and said something, you perceive something, you judge something that was incorrect, and I'm going to keep having to either be silent about it to not offend you or to not have another drama that I have to deal with. Or I'm just not going to talk about it and I'm silent, or I'm gonna say something, we're gonna have a conflict, or I don't know, if I'm gonna have a conflict. Now I'm anxious, right? Like all of that most people have to deal with when they're like going to providers, or birth workers and they're not sure that they are cool, right? So be a person that can be cool in space. And if you're not, get it together and go into that space, and also have a good referral system. Like if you there are certain communities that you know, you're not. You have this conference in like for me, I haven't worked with all populations on the planet, but I've tried my best to expand my perspectives and like global perspectives and different types of family systems and different types of ways of seeing the world and spirituality but I have not sat in front of them worked and studied every single population, but I feel really confident and comfortable that if you put anybody in front of me, I could figure it out. Because I've learned to listen, I've learned to watch, I understand that I can make mistakes, and I'm okay with that. And I'm okay with being corrected. And I've had enough diverse perspectives that I don't believe in my own way, and enough to be like, malleable. And yet I'm challenged every day when I like come across a new thing and a new perspective that that, especially as I'm trying to continue to expand, so, but I'm not uncomfortable in a space where I don't know. But if you're that person, you are uncomfortable. You need to check that discomfort. Yeah, yeah, that's what I bet it's not about you haven't had interaction. It's about How comfortable are you? How much do you really feel like you can like just show up and some people don't like, I just love, you know, birth work. I just love the baby's coming. And I just love to support people who you know, really could have any support in the family system. And it doesn't matter to me what they look like and I'm just going to figure it out. And if you feel confident in that and you lead with the heart, a lot of times like those nuances people can figure out. Especially if they're hiring you, like they are willing to work with someone cross-culturally because they're hiring you, unless they've been assigned to you. And then that's something to consider how that feels for people as a birth worker, but they don't necessarily have a choice. And maybe they would have chosen someone more culturally connected to their family experience, and how you can show them that they can still trust you.   Sara: Sara: Yeah, thank you.   Dr. Sayida: That was a long answer.   Sara: No, I feel like I can't add anything.   Dr.Sayida: I didn’t even know if I was going to have a full answer to that question!   Sara: You have, you've got the answers. Thank you. I think that's really important. You talked about like putting yourself in the spaces that you're not comfortable in until you're comfortable, so that when you're speaking and interacting, you can be yourself authentic. And because sometimes you grow up in a demographic situation where you haven't been in those spaces, but that doesn't mean you're shot. You can interact with those people, right? Just get yourself in those spaces, find comfort, and then yeah, you're able to..   Dr. Sayida: And getting into spaces, to be clear, doesn't mean getting in and like doing a lot of talking right making it about yours. Right? It's like getting into a space and being an observer. Right, and like being asked to be in that space, so you will have to find someone that will take you on that journey. And a lot of times it makes them be like, boy, you're in somebody else's culture is like weird in most cases, maybe not. And some, but most of the time, you need to, like be invited into that space. But also, you must know that when you're there, it changes. Even though you're in the space, and you may have been in the space for 20 years or 50 years, you may have had family members that are from a cross cultural community. And again, there's still something that happens when there's another person in somebody else's cultural space, like it just changes. Sometimes the way that people interact, the language that they'll use, the relaxation, that they'll talk in their conversations. I'd really like thoughtfulness for like what the other person might experience of their… eventually, maybe you might be blessed to be so congruent to a cultural community that when you're there, they forget. That's a beautiful, powerful sacred space that you will never know. You got to… only they know that and you might think that like, Oh, it's not a big deal. I'm here. It's really like something that in the community, like people get to a space and they're like, man, I totally forgot so and so was white. Like, we just, you know, I never and then I'll be like, ah man…I'm sorry I said that I totally forgot you were here. And then it's like, that's actually like a positive thing, like if you're trying to learn to be able to immerse yourself in cultural space where people don't feel like it's about you, that they can have their space and you can just be in it. And I think everybody needs that sacred secrecy of their own space. But also, it's a blessing to be able to do the cross cultural thing because we must do it like in this world in America in all these spots. Yeah.   Sara: Thanks for the clarification, and that's important. My other question for you is: as a birth giver of color, when did you feel the most seen and heard?   Dr. Sayida: Okay. So when I was giving birth, I felt most seen and heard, actually was a unique situation. So my… I hemorrhage pretty terribly, but I didn't realize that because it was my first birth and I thought that, you know, bleeding was normal or something right and so I'm bleeding out there's towels with blood all over the place and they're like going in and I'm, like, comfortable but like all the while I'm like, “I got a baby. This is great.” I've been trying to be happy and so in such pain because of what they're doing to stop the bleeding and I'm like, I guess this is a normal part of like childbirth. So really going through that and losing one lose one and eventually they're like, No, she needs Pitocin. And I'm like, that was like I had like all these rules like my birth plan was tight. No. pitocin no epidural, no, you know, episiotomy, nothing. Like I want nothing but myself and my doula and just like the nature. So what I was done having a baby already and like, I didn't understand the use of Pitocin after that, so my doula got in my face. Like in front of the midwife who was like you really need this. And I'm like, I don't care anything about any of this. Like, I'm not getting Pitocin, like I don't do medication like. And she was like, you need, I understand, like, I know, I know, you’re natural, and I know like, I know everything I understand. You need this. You're bleeding too much. Like this is serious. Like, I need you to trust me, and I need you to let them give you medication.   And I was like, okay, that's fine.   And I was fighting. Like, I was not going down. That he was gonna believe that. I was like, No, I will not as when my ears are ringing and like, I'm like hearing like, just like I can't really see I just remember that whole state after birth, which I still… my memory, my memory of that is like, totally blissed out and in complete joy. But I was hemorrhaging. And that was what was physically happening to me. That made me that I interpreted as this beautiful blissed out like angelic space. I felt heard. And I feel so yeah, my doula heard me. But yet she could respond to like the need that I had and that, but she was like I felt her know that this is like against my will. And that she was also waiting for me to get permission. Like it wasn't like nobody can do anything to you like you, you have to make this choice and I if you trust me, you can make this one. I felt like that I felt hurt and I felt seen.   Sara: And it sounds like you had a pretty strong relationship of trust with your doula that she was able to come right into your personal space and communicate with you, like I know where you're coming from. And I want you to know that I want what's best for you. This is really what's best for you.   Dr. Sayida: And this isn’t a sham. This is like a medical thing that we say we don't do all this stuff like this is like the time we do it. And I think that is very important like for birth workers, to you have to establish that level of trust ahead. It's the only thing that you have for when the when it goes to hell is that even if it's like mom is like totally, you know, or birthing person is totally beside herself like there's no way that transition period like I just can't do this give me the epidural, I just there's no way, I can't, like I just can't you're just looking at it like you definitely can. But I know it feels like you can't but literally that is just a feeling that if you keep breathing and we keep doing this, you're the baby's gonna come out like now and that feeling of like I can't do this is like, is intense. I know that we all if we've done that with nothing with no medical, you know, medicine assistant, there is a point where you're like, I mean seriously, this is intense, like what the… like, Come on, baby like, I just like gotta be done this labor, right? But you can move through that. Like, if somebody can look you in your eye and be like, I know, it's terrible. And we're going to breathe. And we're gonna go through the next moment because you can do this, like the convincingness that I'm able to lend them that they gave me and me being a relationship with them seeing how powerful they are, like knowing that they can do it. We just like, it's a dance. And I think, you know, I never would say like, the power that a woman has in birth is going to come from the doula or the midwife or whoever is like the birth attendant, the family, but that trust that, like, I do respect you, when I see you, and I hear you, and I'm with you. And I believe in you, like, just, you know, we all need people to believe in us more like feeling weak, you know, and, and I mean, I just think that's like, it's golden. And it's just the relationship. It's literally like the relationship, it's the same thing a mother can do. You I've seen, you know, family members do it like, yeah. My so… my best friend in high school, she was having a baby. And I was there, and her mom was there. And you know, she just gets a point where she's getting like, all like dramatic and, you know, nobody was paying any attention to her because everybody had babies, not me. But everybody else had had babies who was in the room, her sister, mom. And they were just like, yeah, like, this is not that bad, like, whatever it is, whatever it is, it doesn't matter because the baby's gonna come out. It's like not necessary. So there's a lot of like, not really gouging, which I don't know, she seemed to be okay with it, but there was a moment where I was like, “Girl, you got this!” You know, I mean, it was like well, I mean yeah, it's good you know? And I remember just being like wow, that was so effective. Like, just like the confidence of someone who can tell you I see you in that… like, right you have it it's like okay, “It’s almost over!” I mean, I mean, it was like such a short labor like I don't even remember us being there for any amount of time. We walked in and the couple hours later start to finish yet baby. But that's like the 17-year-old body. It's just, yes pretty that's… it's always like everyone’s always worried about teen moms. Like all the teen moms I know had like really like shorter labor's and like moms like they have babies like in their 20s like me. And the accounts of them…not all but a number of them… It's like, in retrospect, like they have really like their bodies were like really ready and easy to have, baby. Yeah, that's a whole nother conversation.   Sara: Cool. Well, thank you for sharing your thoughts and helping us consider just like… I like, how you're talking about seeing people. Like with your friend, when you felt seen. And in the … for the first question we talked about, how do you show this cultural competence and humility? It's just seeing people, right?   Dr. Sayida: Yeah.   Sara: And just Yeah, like, like actually seeing, recognizing we have common humanity and yeah, recognizing that, and then that the interaction just…   Dr. Sayida: Everything else follows… And the grace follows, like, if you make a mistake, if you say something, they feel the heart, and they're just like, “Oh, I actually this is how we do it.” And “this is actually how I, you know, call myself” and “this is actually like, you know, my partner, not my husband” and you know, right… The details are like, people are so forgiving when they feel like you care about them.   Sara: Yeah, yeah. Cool. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.   Transcribed by https://otter.ai

If you're a business owner or dipping your toes in self-employment, it's important to continuously broaden your knowledge of entrepreneurship. In today's podcast, Nate Woodbury lists nine must-read books for business owners who are looking to maximize their success. Stay tuned! If you like business and entrepreneur books as much as I do, this video's for you. Because I've got nine amazing recommendations out of hundreds. I mean, I was going through my audible list thinking, "Okay, there's a lot of good books here." And I narrowed it down to the top 9 most amazing business books that are a must-read, must listen. Okay. Number one is actually a two-book set that I recommend by Robert Kiyosaki called Rich Dad, Poor Dad and Cashflow Quadrant. If you have not read those books, even if you've heard about them, you think that you know what they're about, go and read them. Go and listen to them and really understand that cashflow quadrant. It'll make a world of difference in your mindset, your paradigm that you see business in and money. Yeah, those are a must-read for every entrepreneur. Second book. Oh, I have to say the same thing. Seriously. The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber, okay? That is a game-changer. It's a game-changer. I mean I'm all about systems. I'm the master of efficiency as many of you know. Reading this book really painted the picture of how I could do what I learned in the cash flow quadrant. Of changing from self-employed to a business owner. The E-Myth Revisited is how to do that. The action items. How you actually create your business so that you're a business owner working on your business instead of an employee of your own business working in your business, right? So, you've got to read the E-Myth Revisited. These 2 first recommendations I've listened to over and over and over again. And I recommend that you do the same. Okay, this one's a fun one. You probably heard about it. So, number three is The 4-Hour Workweek by Tim Ferriss. Okay? That opened my eyes to a lot of amazing things and caused some paradigm shifts-- just helped me see that there's a lot of things that we consider as the norm, that you should do this, and and you question it and just think, "You know what, that really doesn't make sense. And it doesn't have to apply to me in my business." And it's just there's some good sound advice in there. So, The 4-Hour Workweek. Okay, number four is a book that I recommend to all of my clients who want to build a massive following on YouTube and they've got a business. It's called Content Inc by Ed Puluzzi. I'm mixing two up. It's Joe Pulizzi. The next book I'm recommending is Ed. So this one is Joe. Joe Pulizzi, Content Inc. Now, it kind of backs up my strategy that's why I like it so much. I was listening to it's like, "Yeah. Someone who knows what I'm talking about." Because it you can take the standard step-by-step. This is how you start a business. This is, you know, this is when you should market. This is when you create your website. This is what you should do this. This is when you start to give speeches. This... Okay? It turns it backwards. And you can build influence first. Oh, I totally believe in that. So, you got to read Content Inc.  Okay, the next one by Ed Catmull is Creativity, Inc. Okay, he is the guy behind Pixar. Yeah, Ed Catmull. Such a good book. Now, it's... It really just helped me get a real good grounding and overall understanding of the creative process and overcoming challenges. And a commitment to quality. There's just so many things that I can't put words to that I just loved that book and highly recommend it to any entrepreneur. Creativity Inc by Ed Catmull. Now, I have mixed feelings about Grant Cardone. He is a powerhouse of a guy. And if you have listened to any of his books, you've probably already listened to this one. The 10x Rule. There's just something about this specific book of his that I do recommend that every entrepreneur reads. I mean, he's a go-getter. He talks about if you want to get this amount of results and you think it's going to take this amount of work to get those results, it's not. It's going to take 10 times that amount. And he goes in to explain why. And it gives a lot of examples. And he just challenges you. And it's a real motivator and driver, I found. And so, I do recommend the 10x rule by Grant Cardone. Okay, this next one is a practical one for those of you who want to be YouTubers and want to get better at filming. I learned a lot of great tips and techniques from Steve Stockman. I look at his name. How To Shoot Video That Doesn't Suck. Great title. It's a great audio book.  You'll learn some things that will really help you up your game in video just by listening to it. So, I definitely recommend every entrepreneur should listen to that one. Okay. I found another great one. I've listened to this one many times. You know Jack Canfield? Okay, he's famous for the Soup for the Soul book and series of books. Well, he wrote a book called Success Principles. Now this one, like, you'd think, "Okay, yeah. I'm a successful guy. I'm going to write a book, "Success Principles." I'll be able to sell it and it will make me a lot of money." This is the real deal. He really put meat in this book. It's a good one. It's one that I... For those of you that are readers, I actually might recommend that you try listening to it on audio becuase there's so much in there that... Just whatever whatever works best for you you've got to check out that book. I don't know how to give it a better recommendation than that. Go check out the Success Principles by Jack Canfield. Okay, this next one is famous. You've probably heard of it. Maybe you've read it. It's one that's worth reading many many times. And I admit and I know I haven't told you the title yet. Reading it in book form, I tried for a year or 2 and there's just so much meat in it. That it was hard for me to get through. But on audio, I got through it easily. And I've listened to it multiple times. It's the Seven Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey. Oh, that's such a good book. I learned to love it a lot more in this specific case when I was able to listen to this one on audio. It's obviously sold millions and millions of copies because it is a great book. There's just some gold in there. There's just some gold principles of life and success in business. And contributing to the world with integrity. And leaving a lasting impact and legacy. Yeah, The Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Those are the 9 books. I've got a poll. I'm putting a poll right here. How many of my 9 recommendations are brand new to you? Right? So, going to just click the poll and click the number. How many out of the 9 are brand-new recommendations to you? I'm curious. Have you listened to all of them? So, zero of them were brand new? Or all nine? If you've got a whole feast of ebooks and audiobooks to listen to. And then next I have an invitation. I know we're getting to the end of the video. But I'm curious what business books would you add to this list. Not just one that you're listening to currently. Or just one that hasn't been listed. But what's one that you think is a must read for entrepreneurs? I am very interested in seeing that and checking out more books that I haven't even heard of yet. So, list those ones. Only the best ones. List the very best ones in the comments below.

Making the most of your time can be difficult when you're stuck in a nine-to-five job. In this podcast, Nate Woodbury shares with us how he makes money without investing too much of his precious time and effort. Stay tuned to learn how you can effectively generate passive income yourself! I have found some very unique ways to make passive income. To make residual income where that income comes in without my time. This really works, and you can do it right now. Let me start out with a story. Okay, this is going back ten years ago. Ten years ago, I worked in sales for an internet marketing company. But I also was an independent contractor. They paid me 10 to 12 dollars per article. And I would write the article, and they'd pay me the money. So they would assign me a topic to say, "Hey, write an article about this." So, I would write 500-word article, sent it to him. they pay me 12 bucks. They used that article for their internet marketing, right? They would send it out and have that article link back to a website and stuff like that. So, here's where the story gets interesting. As soon as I got that job, I was learning more and more about hiring people in the Philippines and how easy that is. So, I actually hired a writer. This is the first person I'd ever hired outside of the country. And I hired a writer and sent her some of these topics. Saying, "Hey, will you write these articles?" Now, get this. I was paying her 2 dollars per article, okay? And she was willing to do that. That was a great living for her. But you understand the leverage that gives me. If I pay her $2 for the article, turned it in to the company, and they pay me $10 or $12, that's a pretty good spread. And so at first, there was a little bit of a learning curve. I'd send her the article. She'd send it back to me. I'd make a couple tweaks for grammar and whatnot and give it back. And I tell her about those tweaks. She sends me another one, make some tweaks, tell her about the tweaks, send it in. Over time, it became - It seemed what I thought was perfect. So, I was not writing any articles anymore, but I was submitting like 4 or 5 articles every single day. Now, this story has kind of a funny ending. Because I got so lazy and just like, "Oh, this is great. I don't have to do a thing." I kind of forgot about quality control. And after a couple months of doing this, I thought I'd better check in. So, I grabbed one of the articles that we had recently submitted. And I just did a check on it. I send it through Grammarly to check for plagiarism. And I found out that the assistant that I had hired had started taking shortcuts and just started piecing together things that she had found to speed up her process. She didn't rewrite it and make it her own wording. It was just plagiarized content. That's like, "Oh, no." And I found out the previous 50 articles she had used that approach for. So, I had to go in and tell my boss. Because I didn't want to get in trouble. I believe in integrity and and creating quality content, and I had been paid on 50 articles that were plagiarized. And so, I went in I told my boss what I'd been doing. My boss actually thought it was funny. He just laughed like, "That's hilarious." That that I was hiring somebody else to write the articles for me and making the spread. But he wasn't the decision-maker. So, he sent me to the supervisor, which was a young kid. Younger than me at the time. And he got mad. He gave me permission to rewrite those articles, so I didn't have to give that money back. But he didn't let me have that position anymore because he says, "Well, I can to start somebody in the Philippines." Maybe they did after that. That would be smart, right? So, I did let that person go. But man, that gave me a taste. That gave me a taste of what it was like to make passive income. So, what did I do next? I started my own web design company, of course. So, while I was still working there, I actually had been learning how to design WordPress and Joomla websites. Just create a custom design from scratch. And I advertised locally on our classifieds, and I found two guinea pig clients. They were willing to pay me $500 to design them a custom website. After I did that and delivered the website to them, they were happy. I decided to quit my job and start designing websites for people full time. But very, very quickly, I hired a team and got up to ten full-time employees within the next few months. I wasn't designing anymore. I had systematized my process. We actually had four steps. So, first, you've got to get input from the client on what looks good to them what type of website are they looking for. Then he created mock-up designs. Okay, so I had four steps. I created this system, and I hired graphic designers in the Philippines to do these designs and then turn that into a WordPress or Joomla website. It was so amazing. All I had to do was market it. All I had to do is find the customers, and I started to automate that as well. I put my sells presentation into a YouTube video. So, when I would call people, I'd say, "Hey, I've got a great web design service. Can I send you a video that tells you all about it?" They'd say, "Yes." So, I'd email them the link to that YouTube video. And I just kept doing that. and then eventually, I found a way using LinkedIn and using Craigslist that I could market to people. But then I hired somebody in the Philippines to start doing that for me. So I was sitting back. All I had to do is wait for the phone to ring because my team was marketing my services on Craigslist and on LinkedIn. And my promo videos were being watched on YouTube. I'd get a phone call. They'd say, "Hey, I watched her video. I learned about your service." They might have a question. But I didn't really have to give him a sales presentation because they already got all that through my my system in my videos. So they'd asked me their question, and then they give me their billing information. And I'd send it up, and I'd sign them up. And I would give them to my team. So, I'd get a phone call. They'd want to pay me five hundred bucks for a website. I'd get their credit card information. My team would do the rest. It was so awesome. You know, that is like residual recurring revenue if I've ever heard it. So, what am I doing today? Well, I produce YouTube channels. I'm a YouTube producer. My clients fly to Utah, and I go there for the first few hours. But I've actually got a filming team that films with them. They filmed 20 episodes at a time. They upload that content to Dropbox. And then my team in the Philippines does the editing does the thumbnail design, does the transcription. Does all the work getting it ready on YouTube and scheduling that launch. And they actually communicate directly with my clients. So, I go out, and I speak, and I make these YouTube videos. And clients come to me and say, "Hey, Nate. I want you to produce my YouTube channel." So then, you know, I give them some coaching. I help them on strategy. They get into a year program with me and my team. And my team does all the filming. My team does all the editing. They do all the work. Question for you: Can you do something like this? It's about leveraging your time. You don't want to trade your time for money. And I still do that occasionally. And it's crazy to think that I turned down consulting. Because my consulting rate right now is $1,000 per hour. I just did some consulting earlier this week. They hired me for four hours, $1,000 per hour. But it's not the best use of my time. Isn't that crazy. It's still crazy for me to think about that $1,000 per hour. Yet, my leverage time is worth a lot more than that. And it's not as taxing on my brain. It doesn't take so much energy out of me. Because I've got a lot of energy and I'm putting it into creative things and creating more systems, creating more businesses. When I'm putting that time into consulting, I am leveraging time for money and a higher rate than I have in the past. But it's not creating more potential for the future. So, I would love to hear your ideas of how you're going to create passive income. Now, in the comments below, it doesn't allow links. So, please don't share links to your company or to an opportunity or things like that. But just tell me about it. I'm very curious of what you've found ways that you're doing. And I am looking for more opportunities that I can be a part of where I can create that same type of leverage.

This weeks guest is Peter Sumpton. Peter is a Marketing Study Lab - Tutor and Pod caster. Peters two favorite Marketing quotes are: ‘People like us, do things like this’ Seth Godin. ‘The most human company always wins’ Mark Schafer. Peter has worked within the Marketing profession ever since leaving University via various organizations from SMEs to large multinational PLCs in a number of different market sectors including; media and manufacturing. Throughout his careers Peter has held many positions within Marketing, starting as an assistant and working through the ranks to Head of Marketing. In going through this ‘ground up’ journey he understands that although every business is different, through robust and justifiable Marketing Strategies, tailored to a particular industry with a certain target market in mind is where the Marketing magic happens! Having been in the same position himself and want to develop his skill thought a more structured way of learning marketing, Peter knows exactly what it takes to learn, study and master marketing theory and putting it into practice, becoming a Chartered Marketer in the process. The passion and commitment to the profession he loves – Marketing, can be infectious.Links: Facebook Group: www.facebook.com/groups/marketingstudylab Podcast: https://marketingstudylab.co.uk/free-resources/podcast/ Website: www.marketingstudylab.co.uk Make Contact: www.linkedin.com/in/petersumpton www.twitter.com/cousinp81 www.instagram.com/marketingstudylabWelcome back to the fuel your legacy podcast. Each week we expose the faulty foundational mindsets of the past and rebuild the newer, stronger foundation essential in creating your meaningful legacy. We've got a lot of work to do. So let's get started. As much as you like this podcast, I'm certain that you're going to love the book that I just released on Amazon if you will, your legacy, the nine pillars to build a meaningful legacy. I wrote this to share with you the experiences that I had while I was identifying my identity, how I began to create my meaningful legacy and how you can create yours. You're going to find this book on Kindle, Amazon and our website Sam Knickerbocker. com.Welcome back to the fuel your legacy podcast. And as always bringing on the movers the shakers, the people who are making the transition from living somebody else's legacy, fulfilling building somebody else's legacy to taking ownership. of who they are and who they're meant to be their talents, their identity and bringing it to the world, which is you. So thank you for listening. If you love this podcast, if you've been getting tons and tons of value out of it, go please, and write a review on whatever app you're listening to this on, whether it's iTunes, Google, play, Spotify, Stitcher, wherever it is, go write a review, rank, and review so that more people can hear this valuable content. Today, we're going to be talking to Mr. Peter Sumption something correct pump somebody else. That's correct. Believe me, I've had all sorts, but that's fine. I believe you know that perfect. So Peter something. The cool thing about Peter something is, I love his angle that he's taking on this. So he is a master of marketing. But he calls himself the Lego master of marketing. It's important to as part of marketing, attach yourself something well known, so that people will remember you. So I love this idea of the Lego master of marketing, taking the messy building blocks which we all if you've ever tried tomorrow yourself brand yourself, you know that there is a mess, right? Especially if you have no idea what you're doing. If you've ever played with Legos, you also understand it's a mess, and you can build whatever you want. But with no vision, you usually don't get very much. So all the messy building blocks as to what makes up a successful marketing plan takes them to codify them, make them easily understood so that it looks presentable. And you've got a cool little for me, I don't know why I always think of Star Wars when I think of Legos. But a nice little Millennium Falcon driving around, right? Because that's just what I think. Maybe that's indicative of the time in my life when I played with my legs. Yeah. But go ahead, Peter, let us know kind of your story. Share that transition. What made you leave another really exciting thing to listen to Peter's story very closely. We have not had very many guests here that are in his exact position and the timing of this could not be better. So listen to that. And if he doesn't, if you don't pick it up, I'll draw attention to it after a story but I'm shooting We're excited for this to take it away, Peter.Great, what an intro. Thank you so, so much. And thank you for having me on absolute pleasure. So I suppose the first thing to say is that the whole Lego thing. I remember when I was younger, and that's I suppose whether the story starts and similarly to you, I was into Star Wars and more the space Lego. And that was kind of the first thing that I ever had in terms of Lego the spaceship that I build and break down and build and break down and fast forward into right now. That's why I like to cast myself as the Lego master of marketing. It's a bit catchy, but it also goes back a long way to where I started and kind of a love of Lego. And then from that building a love of marketing. So let's leave the Lego for one side, the moment I grew up in a small town, middle of nowhere and kind of had two choices went to school. Fine family No problem. It's not a wonderful rag to riches story, nothing like that. Pretty standard to be fair. But in the town where I grew up, you had two choices. You either lived, worked there and basically spent your whole life in that town, or you moved away. So, it was my decision that I would go to university. And I had to choose something that I thought would be interesting for the next three years of my life to do to study, flicking through university books, and thinking, Okay, I'm not as bright as I probably think I am. So doctor, dentist, lawyer, that's way out to the field, no chance. This marketing thing. This is quite interesting. I wonder what that's all about. Andlike anybody, the first thing you think of when you think of marketing, or generally most people will think of advertising or communication, because that's, that's the bit we see. That's the bit that everybody sees. And everyone's got an opinion about it. Simple as that. But I liked that about marketing. And I liked the fact that within marketing, it went deeper than that. And a color or a brand or a logo, or even an advert or a con type of communication could change somebody's mindset and effectively affects what they're thinking about a particular company, or a product or a service. So I thought let's have a go at this. So went to university I spent three years going to a lot of boring lectures, spend three years going to some interesting lectures and spent three years playing a lot of football and doing a lot of drinking and stuff that a lot of people do and they go to university and leaving University for fantastic you know, degree happy days. pat on the back. Well done P. Now to get a job, or just some a CV out, I've been to university, I've got a degree someone's bound to pick me up straightaway snapped me up. And I remember Actually, I had this discussion today with somebody that I'm tutoring. And I said to them, I remember sending my first application for a job after university and being nervous about it because I was thinking, I'm going to get this job and I'm going to have to do it. And they're going to ask me questions. And I've never been in this position before. This is a bit strange. I never heard from them and then sent another and never heard from another and never heard from and I suppose all this is up to where I am now. I almost took the first job that I could get just because I wanted to get a job. And a lot of people will be listening and thinking, will you look just to get a job in the first instance, you know, I kill to go to university and get a job and yeah, you're buying right? Some people really struggle to get that job, but it does have a lasting impression on you and it does massively affect The way your life goes and the way it's guided and how you grow and develop as a person and within your, your profession, it just does. So I had a few marketing jobs thought I knew it all thought I knew what good marketing was, sorry, communications based focus straight on the straightaway. And this was pre-internet, by the way. So, anyone that's, that's probably under the age of say 1816. Listening is probably thinking, what did you do pre-internet? Well, this is a good question. Really, what did we do? I can't remember. But fast forward a little bit after those few jobs. And I came to this realization that marketing isn't just about communications, although that is what people see, and believe it to be, first and foremost. And I've got a little analogy for you here and hopefully, this will make sense. Going pre-internet by the way, so let's go School for a second. If you're writing a letter to somebody if you have to write a letter, what do you start that letter with? You start it with somebody's name and their address. You know who you're writing that letter to. And then you go on and you build the letter, you construct the letter main points and then sign it and send it up. What you don't do is write it and then think, who am I going to send this to? And, and that's the bit of marketing that a lot of people even in marketing, don't quite understand. The fact that it's all about I mean, maxing simple, it's, it's all about who you're targeting your market in general. And then the communication on top is very much that cherry on top of the cake. If you don't build the cake First, there's no point in having the cherry of communications. So anyway, this realization came to me and I'd had a few jobs in marketing. And it wasn't my bag. It wasn't something I was passionate about in terms of the industries I was in. And now it comes to the point where I'm at right now. So hopefully your listeners will. Some of them will understand where I'm at either been there or are there are thinking of this. So my current role, I enjoyed it love the people I work with, really passionate about marketing and my profession. But I just didn't have that link to the industry. I just didn't feel that I was fully connected to the industry. So long story short, aboutI'd say about a year to two years ago, I decided I need to do something for myself. I need to build some and that's purely me because I'm sick and tired of working in marketing departments are fighting internally with other divisions to highlight the importance of marketing. I need to branch out and do this for myself build something so I can highlight this to all the people of how you do marketing correctly. Whether that's right A letter or creating a Facebook post, it doesn't start with that post it starts for the buck. So that was about two years ago. So what I started to do, I was already tutoring people through another company I worked with on the side. I went to them and I said, you know, can you help me out here? What can we do how I want to grow and build a business? Can you help me know? Okay, so we can you can partner with us. And we will put people through our books for you and you can choose them for professional qualifications. Now my brilliant that's a great start. Fast forward two years. And now I'm at a position where I'm okay I handed in my notice and I did that. Not quite sure when this is going out. But I did it said the start of October, and by the end of this month that is the end of October, I'll be going it alone. So it's like slap bang in the middle of this transition and the caveat being are the ones that What I want to get across to people that are listening is, there's more than one way to skin a cat, there's more than one way to make money, there's more than one way to leave this job. You can do it instantly. Or you can do it slowly, and I'm quite risk-averse. So what I've done is I've taken my time, I've got to know my audience. And I've got to understand what I want to do, and what my passion is and where that is. And that's led me to today. So I'm at the point of leaving my job and going full time in terms of tutoring people for professional qualifications, mentoring them through apprenticeships, for marketing, but also going into companies and showing them how you should do marketing, how you need to start with your audience. You don't start with the columns. And that's where I am today.Yeah, I love it. So there are a few things that I want to bring out of this story. And then let me take one real quick note here before I forget it.Why we always use this example but we do.Okay, sojust some terminology here. So I understand in Europe and then we'd use started a little bit using it here but not always. But CV is the equivalent of a resume. So sorry, your CV out what the heck is this? Right? Is that a Honda CV know, a CV is a resume, essentially. Okay. And so that's something that had to be built. If you go back to it and this is kind of the example that I want to bring up. How many people maybe this is you maybe it's somebody else, you know, this Listen, you who are listening to this podcast, but the plumber who doesn't fix his toilets, the plumber has broken plumbing in his house and is too busy to fix it right? That is one area that I've seen happen over and over and over and over and over, specifically in the marketing field where people can I can brand You I can help you market I can do all this, but they are not doing it for themselves. They're not even close to doing it from themselves. They haven't branded themselves. They haven't created brand standards, they haven't understood marketing. And so they're trying to sell you something that they are not doing for themselves. And even if they have a wicked awesome portfolio of people they've helped, they're not doing it for themselves. So it's important for you to understand when you're looking for a professional in any area of your life, I believe you should be looking for somebody who is actively doing what they're trying to help you do. They're actively doing it for themselves. They're living what they preach. They're walking the line that they're showing you to walk, and they're on the path.And what's cool about that isthat is Peter Peter is already branding himself. He's creating a brand and this as he said, he first got this idea started working on this one to two years ago. It's not like just over overnight, he decided to create a brand. He's built a brand while he was at his I guess you could call day job or last A form of employment. And that is important to understand that he's built this. Now, where do you start when you build a brand, and this is part of what my messages when I'm talking to peopleis thatunderstanding they have to identify your identity to build off of because if you're going to go build something, especially if you're gonna go build a business, and you're building something that is not in alignment with your values and who you are at your core, it will fail. I don't know how big it's going to get before it fails. But you can only build so big of a building on a weak foundation. Maybe you get away with a first-level story, you're barely surviving, you've got to sell a job with rather than only having one boss, you've got all your customers, bosses, maybe you get a job, but it's your job, right. But to build a legacy to build something long-lasting instruction, you have to start with your identity. And I love that that's the first place you started. logo. Matt, Master of marketing, sorry, the Lego Master Master of marketing that comes from his core something that he connects with from his childhood. It's part of his identity. And so he's bringing his identity his weirdness, right so there's a phrase in marketing What is your weird you need to be able to share what you're weird is with other people. So you remember so that people think about you and your weird could be any number of things my weird if, if you go to my Facebook page, and I'm not a crossdresser, I'm homosexual, right? But I like to do weird things. And if you go on my Facebook page, you're going to see me in some hot pink high heels and a blue suit. Right? And you might think that's weird. It is weird, man. When you go to my page, I want you to remember when I speak on stage, I show everybody this picture when I speak on stage because I want them to think that guy was weird. Was that weird? connects them with me. It says okay, yes, he's a serious businessman and he doesn't take himself too seriously, and that is essentially the sweet spot of my value system. candor, very direct, very honest. but on the same token, very grateful, happy, and somebody who lives in integrity to themselves so doesn't take themselves too seriously. So that's an important aspect of marketing that I love that you did.And there are just a couple things that you picked up on that going back to the plumber. So so and this is why I do what I do. And if a pipe bursts and you're not a plumber, you're going to call a plumber, but you're not going to call anyone you're going to call on that, you know, like and trust, and you're going to call one that knows what they're doing. Hopefully, and it amazes me, the number of people I speak to that is in the marketing department, and they don't know the strategic elements. They don't know what marketing orientated businesses are. They don't know What various acronyms and we've all got acronyms and all that rubbish, but they don't know the fundamental basics. And that put into position, usually. And it's crazy, but it's true. Usually, they're put in the marketing department, because they know Twitter. Oh, you've got a Facebook account, you can do that. How can you? You know, that's like saying to a plumber or saying to your friend, my toilets were broken, you use the toilet? Can you come around and fix it? You just wouldn't craziness? Yeah. And it's like that second thing. The second thing is, you mentioned branding being massively important. So two things on that. My branding is going to do a massive transition for various reasons. And that's when I came up with it like a master of marketing. So if anyone looks me up, it's going through massive changes, massive transitions, and at some point in the very near future, it will be buying on point. Well, that's what I've been doing for the past two years is working out what the audience wants and where I should go. The second thing, if anybody's listening, and they want to build and develop their brand, just remember one thing. And that's all brand is, is a promise that it's as simple as that it is a promise. As soon as that promise is broken, you don't have a brand. So next time you see a brand, take Hershey's, for example. They promise that they will deliver delicious chocolate whether you like it or not, that's kind of what their brand stands for is chocolate delicious chocolate. the best chocolate you'll ever eat. If you eat a chocolate bar, Hershey's chocolate bar and it's disgusting. They have broken that promise. And now you won't forgive them and they'll lose your trade. So just remember it is a promise.Yeah, absolutely. And that's my brand also is going through i would say a more clarification I used to brand myself as Samuel Knickerbocker and feel your legacy and I'm separating the two because as and this is going to happen with everybody. I think you're gonna initially brand one way and Your brand is a constant transformation. So you understand that you're not like locked into one thing and you're out of integrity if you're not sticking to that one thing, but my brand I had to separate because the fuel your legacy side of my brand is taking on kind of a life of its own. And the Samuel Knickerbocker brand is taking on a life of its own, and I wanted to separate those so that might be so my clients can be more specific about what that promise is. Yeah. And I love talking about the promise aspect of it. And understanding what that is specifically with marketing I'm going to touch on another thing that I've seen happen in the industry so if you're looking for somebody to start marketing for you, and you're kind of interviewing different people, the market to start determining where do I send my money? A lot of people they're like, I can write copy, I can write an ad for you. I can split test on Facebook or, or whatever landing pages and you're like, Okay, cool. And can you do this where you can your content creation for meand then we'll do it. The problem is it's exactly what I think is the best.This is probably the best analogy I've ever heard of marketing, the letter analogy, right? They are writing copy, you're paying them to write copy. It's okay, generic copy. And when I say copy that's advertising words. So the words that are in the advertising for people who don't understand the industry, but they're writing stuff, but it's generic because they don't know who they're writing it to. So they're writing this letter and then determining, well, let's just blast it out and see who likes the letter. And then based on if we change three words in the letter, maybe we'll get a better response from this group. They have no idea who they're marketing to. That is an issue. And if you're paying for that level of service, stop paying for it, and go find somebody who's going to help you. At least initiate the conversation of Who are we marketing to? Okay, there's a lot of people out there who will take your money and I'm not saying they're bad at their job. There probably are Really good copywriters, like people who are writing this, but they are only as good as they know who they're writing to. And that's crucial. In fact, when I started working with my brand, and this is one of the reasons why my brand is going through a revision, because all about the mindset of where you're starting, whether it's financial, or or in life, whether it's who you're marrying, whatever it is, what intention Are you starting, so with my branding, and with your your promise, is your promise something that people would tattoo on their body? Right? When you start asking yourself that question if enough people bought into this, would they be willing to tattoo my logo on their body because the meaning of the promise is so it's so grand, and they can get behind the meaning of that promise? And if not, then your brand really, you need to be clarifying your brand a little bit more, and that's why I've changed my logo because I want my logo to be tattooed. I want my logo to, for somebody be like, yeah, I'll wear that on my arm. I'll wear that on my shirt. I'll wear that on my hat because it looks cool. And people are going to ask what does that mean? And then I can tell them, it's an invitation to tell them about this legacy. And that's an important aspect of the logo design of things when it comes to it. But in finance, I was just on a podcast the other day, and the guys like, well, if I have X amount of dollars, where would you tell me to start investing?Beforethat, before I ever talked about investing before ever talk about the copy before I ever talked about what's in the letter. I have to know your values, what's important to you? And that's where it starts, and it's going to start that were everywhere. When you're getting married. You just go look for the cutest person out there. Or do you look for Hey, who's compatible? What am I looking for? And this isn't about making a checklist aboutqualities you want in somebody necessarily. Maybe steve jobs did thatSteve Jobs, actually he had pros and cons. Whether you want to get married, and he's his current wife, while he's the only wife, I think, actually saw that, and she found it funny.But the thing is, like everything that you do in life really should start with, is it in alignment with your identity? If it is great, if it's not, then it's easily dismissable. If you know what your identity is, and your value system, it takes so much confusion out like like, should I do it? Should I not do it, if it passes the identity test, and the value test, there's a good chance that it would be worth doing. And, and to give you some honest consideration, if it doesn't pass either of those, then just pass on it. It could be a great opportunity for somebody else, but it's not you.If people are unsure what they're passionate about, or what got as it took me two years to make this leap. And I'm massively passionate about marketing. That's it's fundamental. It's almost in my blue. I feel like you know, I do this stuff for free, you know, I do in my spare time, whatever it is, if it's about marketing, that's where I come alive. But what I want people or your listeners to think about is that they need to find what they're passionate about. And the best way to do that if, particularly for skeptical about working for themselves or going it alone or not having that regular paycheck is would you be willing to talk about it and do it for free? Try doing it in the evenings and weekends. And the one thing that I always say when people say I just haven't got the time, and I know we're all time-sensitive now. But if you're passionate about something, you will find the time but not only that, I always do it when I'm tutoring and I say you need to study you need to do your research and you always get the old just can't find the time and then I'll say okay, what happened on that soap, you know what happened on that? That comedy program that all that was brilliant. Do you see what I mean? Like, that's an hour that does the first hour a week. Do you watch the news? That's five hours a week. I've just given you six hours. You stop.Yeah. And maybe I mean, this is the reality. Maybe you are the most passionate thing about that soap opera, or whatever it is that comedy show if that's what you're most passionate about, and you could talk for hours about it and start a podcast, start something and talk for hours about it. Like there's nothing It doesn't matter what you're passionate about. A good branding expert, a good marketing expert, and a good business expert can help you turn that into an economy where you're able to add value to others and make money doing it. So it doesn't matter what you're passionate about. Question is, are you passionate enough to do it and does it fulfill you there's a lot of things that I'm passionate about that I would love doing that I'm probably doing for free, but it does not fulfill me the same way as doing what I do on daily basis helping my clients right this morning. I will Wake up and pull up an Instagram.And there were like 12 messages on Instagram.Like somebody, a client that I had helped right before I went to bed. She put on 12 little clips, the 15-second clips on her story about all the things that I was able to help her with. That's incredible. Like, that's like, if you ever want to wake up to something, there's like your clients are telling everybody like a freakin lighthouse. This guy's awesome. That gives you some juice in the morning like, okay, yeah, how do I save these so I can always watch that. So I can always see how much people believe in me and what the change they make in people's lives. And that gets me excited. I sat in bed with my wife, my two boys who are two and a half and nine months old. And we watch this for like two minutes long, two or three minutes long. Do we just watch this about what are we doing? What impact are we having in society? What's that promise and is that promise being kept.And that part that you just described that wasn't monetary that had no monetary value as such as I know she's a client. But that part that gave you the kick that gave you the let's do this. That wasn't monetary. That was because you're passionate about that, and you loved helping somebody solve a particular problem.Yeah, no, I love it. So so one of the things that happen when in this transition, and you're right in the thick of it, which is so exciting for me, but I want you to tell me the story of your biggest naysayer and how you are actively trying to get them out of your head. So you can just drive forward and say, Look, this is where I'm going. I'm not going to pay attention to all the people who are trying to still get me to keep my job you know, it's not too late. I still have it. I turned in my notice, but they would get they would give me my job back if I went in and ask for my job back. How are you silencing those naysayers and who are the biggest ones in your life right now?So the people that I thought would be the biggest naysayers turned out to be big advocates to be fair, so when I decided to make I was fully aware fully conscious that I wanted to do this about a year into this two-year transition if you like. For about a year, I was gearing up to tell my family that I was wanted to do this. And I thought because they're very safe, very secure very. I suppose if you look generation generationally, that even a word. If you look back then that generation was very much, you get a job, you stick at it, then the generation before them was even worse. They probably went through a war, you know, and it's I'm just fortunate to have a job, you know, so so you should be grateful just to have a job. So I was I was not petrified, but I thought it would be a case of that's too risky. Don't do that, etc, etc. Well, I told my dad, he was only ever had one job in his life for around 45 years. Yep, same company. He said times have changed. And if that's what you want to do, that's what you want to do. And I thought I couldn't believe it. They were just, that was the biggest impetus or that I needed to be like, yeah, I need to go for this. Well, the naysayers surprisingly, I haven't had that many, which is strange. But the one thing that I would say is that everyone has their own opinion. And then whatever you decide to do, it will be the right decision, because you'll never know any different. So whatever you do, whatever your decision is, never look back and think I should have stayed that I shouldn't have done this. Because it will lead you to a now it will lead you to this moment to bigger and better things. And the way I always look at it is if I don't leave that company, I could be driving to work The day after I hand the day after I leave, and be hit by another car. And that reality does no longer exist anymore because I've changed that in my life. Now. Now that's a bit of a bizarre way to look at it. But I will never know if that would happen or not. So there's no point in looking at that bolt alternative universe. It's your universe, and you are where you are now. So just think of the full would never Lubbock.I love your brain and the universe. And a while back, I was having a conversation with some colleagues,andsomething that people struggle with. I've seen over my coaching and guiding people through just a financial conversation, but it's everywhere. People struggle with the idea that they are the creator of their universe. And they really, they want to pass that responsibility off onto God off on to others. They're their neighbors. They're the person who cut them off on the road like they want to pass off the idea of creation to anybody else because the idea of that they are the creator of their universe is too incredibly painful. Because they have to realize if I'm the creator, and I'm where I am right now, then it's on me. And that is a terrifying thought. But it's also when you make the transition when you make it past the hump, that is the most blissfully wonderful, happy, joyful thought that you could ever tell me of is that it's my job to create. I'm the creator of my universe, and I determine what my universe looks like and how I view it. I can't control anybody else's actions, but I can control what I'm telling myself in my mind, and that's my universe in between these two years, and what I do, that's my universe and nobody else gets to control that but, but me and for you who are listening, nobody else gets to control your universe, and it's on you, whatever, whatever is happening in life, it's on you. And even if you can't change the physical circumstances of where your life is right now initially, you can change your perception of those physical circumstances which will completely alter your reality. And you can live in a completely new universe there where there's joy, happiness, love, conviction, passion,everything,everything you've ever dreamed of it is attainable by a simple mindset shift. I know you don't like to hear that. Most most people, don't want to hear that. If they're not in the right mindset, but it's the truth. And somebody's got to tell you.Yeah, I completely agree. And I, the other thing that kind of spurred me on to where I am now, and this was very various conversations with numerous people. And we are so fixated on the now and that's fine. You know you know that that moment now. And as humans, we get lazily uncomfortable because that's what we are. We're human beings. We don't like change even many of us die. And it's so hard to change but you, you have to do that for you. No one will do it for you. No one's going to hand you a golden ticket. It's up to you to make that change to make that leap. And the thing that and it's, it's kind of in the back of my mind, but not Not really. It's on the back. It's almost like the safety zone, but I push away. And that's if all goes wrong. I can get another job. Because I've got those skills in the bank. I'm grown in developing a business. I've worked for multiple businesses within marketing. I know my stuff, or I hope I noticed. Okay, I'm coming across like a big so I can always go and work for somebody else. There are jobs out there. I'm not saying I'd walk into anywhere Far from it. But I've probably had say five or six or seven jobs in my career so far. So there might be an eight or nine that could be I'm hoping there isn't, and I make a great success in this business and we all live happily ever after. But there's always that little safety zone that says, if worse comes to worst, there are always jobs out there. It might not even be the job you like. But if that keeps you going while you're still doing this thing that you're so passionate about, then so be it because that passion should override anything. Anything else?Yeah, absolutely. So what would you say the over the last two or three years that you while you've been kind of easing yourself into this idea, and now you're in the middle of a transition? What is one habit mindset or behavior that you've used to start creating your legacy? Afew, I suppose. So the first main habit is I started going to the gym about five, six years ago say and the only way that I was ever going to continue going to the gym. Is that is it? If I made it so that it was like eating and drinking, I had to do it, you know, it wasn't a, if I get time I'll go to the gym, it was a case of, well, I need to eat food, I need to drink water, I need to go to the gym. And it was just part of it there was you know, it was a non-negotiable if you like, and then it just becomes ingrained into your system. And similarly to this. I started doing it on evenings and weekends. And it's putting that time aside and dedicating that time. And that's made me massively conscious of how to make more efficiencies in the time that I've got. And the fact that I've only got say, two to three hours in an evening, maybe say six hours a day at a weekend, if you don't include being with family members and some downtime because we all need that. And it's been massively focused and organized because you are in charge. It's up to you to make those decisions and be very, very organized. So, if anything, it's made me massively, massively disciplined, particularly because as you can see, I'm at home. And this would be sort of my office, the TV there, I don't think that's ever been switched on. So there are so many distractions around you. But if you get in that place where you are massively structured and you know what you're doing, that's when you start to create efficiencies and you get, you can get so much more done. If you concentrate on the things that can keep you moving. That's one thing that I've massively changed. Absolutely,yeah, I love that, you know, just creating the discipline and setting up what are your non-negotiables Have you ever written that down? Like, what is it that you will do every day, no matter what, and just like you said, eating, drinking, water, sleeping, those are things that no matter what they're happening, because your body needs that to survive, and I think if you create that mindset around whatever it is, you need to get done for your passion and that time, that's your you time and then That's, that's a phenomenal habit. So how did you I mean, you're again, you're in this transition this is the best, one of the best ones, because you're in the transition. But in the transition, how, like, Did you plan on? How did you plan on financially supporting yourself through this transition? Do you have a spouse working? Like what is it that you have to go on? That's assisting you in this transition?Absolutely. I love that quick question. And I think it's probably the biggest thing will be people listening probably about the financial aspect. But because I've, I don't know any of my family members thinking about it, that don't have or haven't had a regular paycheck, including myself. I've not had that for how many years is it now for 19 years? You know, I've had that regular paycheck so going from that to not having that is a massive, massive step change. So what happened about a year and a half ago when I decided to take this seriously I started creating, saving. So I was doing work on the side in the evenings and weekends. When I got my regular paycheck put as much as I could aside, stop spending on stupid things. And I don't want to come across as we could have everything. We drank water, and we ate lettuce for a year and a half, nothing like that at all. You know, we've been on some great holidays and things like that. But it certainly makes you look at what you're spending on. Do you need 18 shirts? Then maybe not. If you're in this transition? You know, do you need to spend money on certain things? Probably not. And if you want this to happen, and like us, as I said before, I'm massively risk-averse. So the only way I could make this happen is if I knew I had a lot of savings. So if all went wrong, I could support my family. I've given it 12 to 18 months, so I know if it goes badly wrong. I've got 12 to eight 18 months, if I wanted to, I could just go to a beach for 12 to 18 months on the job. But we don't want that. So just to add to it, it's so I have got a family to support. So it's a case of considering them. So it's just about being prepared. Working out. The best advice in terms of monetary advice for anyone that's looking to transition is write down what you potentially could get in what you know you're going to get in. And then you'll be able to work out how much you need to save to maintain the lifestyle that you've got now. Then you can drop that lifestyle a little bit if you need to. But you must understand how much you will need to support yourself if you had zero income coming in. And ideally, that wouldn't happen but you know, you've got that in the background. So that's where I am again massively risk-averse. So you don't have to throw everything up in the air one day at work and go, I quit, I'm off, you just you don't you couldn't do. And if you're happy to do that and take that risk, do it, you know, if it's in your nature, if it's not sensible about it, get some kind of savings together that you can rely on, don't touch it, don't look at it, just keep putting it in every month. And don't think that everyone's focused on the now think of the future. Think it thinks of 12 months down the line plan for 12 months. Like we were saying, This is taking me one to two years to get to this stage. So I've been planning for one to two years, not just from the brand, not just from the marketing, not just from what I want to do for the rest of my life, but also from the savings and the monetary side so that we are safe and secure for X amount of months.Yeah, I love that because it's it is true. And I would say I'm taking one step further. Even if you're not planning on making a transition, you really should know what is your bottom line. needs to come in every month like you're spending and you need to know Hey, what's my bottom bottom bottom line? food, shelter, insurance, transportation. And then what is everything else that like, if push comes to shove, we can get rid of and understand what is necessities? What's discretionary and then what's like, the extra money that you could be put away somewhere. And understanding how money works, understanding the rules of money and where that money needs to be and how it needs to be in a year from now, how you're going to pull that out. All of those are crucial, crucial aspects that you need to get nailed down, regardless of what your plan is. But especially if you're transitioning, I work with a lot of entrepreneurs who there I'm going to do this business idea and they're super stoked about it. And they have two or three, maybe four good months while they're moonlighting, and so then they quit their job, but they haven't planned really for the future. And they're still in the scaling-up phase. And they're in Me, it crushes them. And it almost scares them to go back out and try it again. And that's I think this skill they just talked about is understanding where you are, where your finances are and what you need. Especially if you have a family, you've got to be thinking of your family. It's not like you're a single guy who goes sleeping this car if things don't work out. Yeah. And I know people who, who are that way they sleep with their office because they lost their house, right? I get that. And I'm all like, if that's you, you go for it, right. But it sounds like Peter and I are pretty close to the same. Like, I don't like a lot of risks. I've got a family. I've got my wife and two kids. I don't want them to feel the stress of me growing a business. And so how do we manage that and it? Did you I'm curious, did you just figure it all out yourself? Or have you did you counsel with other professionals kind of like you're the toilet example? Or did you call somebody who's an expert in that or did you say it Oh, let's see what we can do by ourselves and stuff it under the bed?So I think A very long way around. So what I did for one of those years where I was thinking about it, whereas I documented everything that we are incoming and outgoing, so that this time this year, I know approximately, if I have the same year as I did last year, and that was just doing it on the side, if you like, how much we've got coming in, so how much I will need savings to last us for 12 to 18 months for the next year. So yes, I went to see an accountant and I said, I'm not crazy. And they said, No, you do not give us your money. Know that. They said no, we just have to figure out your finances, etc, etc. Do it in the right way. So I did go to somebody and advise anyone to seek financial advice. Absolutely. 100%. But the best thing you can do is, is just start by writing it down. Exactly like you said, non-negotiables what do we need to survive? What can we get enough if, if at all, not saying get rid of it. Because the one thing that that I don't particularly like in this day and age is, we always hear them say, for this and we say for that, well, I want to go on holiday. So I'm going to put that out on my life. So I can go on this holiday. And there are that many opportunities around that it shouldn't be the same. It should be okay, I need X amount to go on a holiday. Does that mean you need to increase your income by $100 a month? So you can afford a family vacation next year? If that's the case, okay. How can you make $100 on the side, maybe start like that, and then it's not so much of a burden. And then you build it up? Maybe it's $200 that works for you. So it's 300 400,000 and then you've got that balance of Okay, I'm getting close to how much I bring in each month anyway. So maybe it's worth that risk and then you do all the financial stuff, etc, etc.Yeah, I love that mindset that he just talked about. The mindset shift is the difference between fear and scarcity can even make it and, and abundance. Let's start making it let's just add some extra income and let's fulfill our dreams pay for our dreams, paper trips or whatever we want through added income rather than trying to cut back and live within our pennies. How about we just go make some more dollars? Right? Yeah, I love that. I'm curious one of the things that I love about what Peter does is certain industries are completelywhat's the word?Their worldwide industries right and anybody in any country can help you with this if they're good at it, right? And so he's in one of those industries where it doesn't matter where you live, you could call him maybe with a little language barrier. I don't know how many languages he knows I only know English so I am limited to like yes, I say barsen is embarrassing. I have friends who speak six and seven languages and I barely speak English and I'm not good at it. Anyways, so we are we have a certain level of that Google translation certain things can help or we have friends like I have friends who speak other languages to help me but these principles they were all over the world no matter what country you're in. And so how would we go about getting ahold of you? Where do we connect social media websites? Like what is the best way to get involved in your mission, your vision if we want to support you, we want to maybe give you some businesses Okay, let's get you rolling. As you help us get rolling, where do we connect? How can we appreciate that thank youfor my main social media platforms LinkedIn so just look up my name's Pete something simple as that. You can go to a marketing study lab coat UK, which is my website, but like said that's going into transition. So bear with me on how on or you can email me so Peter at marketing study lab co.uk. Okay, and even if it's just for a brief chat of the marketing, even if you want a bit of advice I'll speak all day about marketing. Yeah.I think I think anybody passionate about what they do, they really will, to a degree, they'll give it away for free. Because yes, we love helping they want to see people succeed. There is a point at which just the value of time, we have to start charging for our time as professionals simply because we have a family to feed, right. And that's a that's just a natural thing. We can't get away from certain aspects. But if it's for a short conversation or a gradual conversation over time, and we're coming, I know for myself, if somebody comes, well, what do I do? That's a sucky question. And I don't know how to answer that just like Well, here's a few things. So go figure it out. But if you come to, hey, this is what I've done. This is where I'm at, what little tweak would you make What's one or two things you would change, then that makes it easy for Peter or myself in my profession to say, Okay, well, here are some things that I would work on. Right now. We can give directed feedback because we are we have a starting point. Somebody's coming in and just like well, what where do I start? It's really difficult to help you. So that's some feedback if you're going to reach out to him, come to him with something don't come to him. Like, oh, but let's just chat about this for an hour with no end in mind. That's it. That's essentially let's write a letter with no person that is addressed to the robots that are going to operate. Well there. So this is entering the legacy on the rapid-fire section. I love this section because we get to here really quickly, what are your goals were headed at and what is holding you back? So the first question, I may ask you for more clarification, I would just say clarify it. It's just easier if we say that the first question for sure, but one word to one-sentence answers.Okay, okay.The first question I want to sentence so not a word, round. Okay. So what do you believe is holding you back from reaching the next level of your legacy today?What he's holding me back. He's holding me back. time constraints, I think It's the time time to do everything. So I've had, you know, a year, two years to focus on this, and now it's happening. It's almost like there are so many things that I want to do and get involved in. It's getting that time. Okay,so so I'm gonna clarify this and just change the change time constraints, cuz I've been hearing this one frequently as well. What if it's not time constraints, but it's systems?Yeah, okay. Yeah. I mean, I feel it feel a bit of a fraud because I said halfway through the interview that I'm very structured, and so I am, but there's just so much to doing and get involved. But having said that, that that that is on me simply because it just means that I'm not focused on the main thing that I need to be focused on. Soyeah, it's getting clarity on where I need to focus now. It's not just a side hustle. Sure. And that's something just so you guys who are listening when you're working part-time you're moonlighting as a side hustle. It's very fairly easy to focus on that because you only can do a certain amount. Once you're getting the position and you have a lot more time. Now the question becomes, you have been putting off tons of things, and now is the time to systematize it. So it's not, I wouldn't say is a fraud. This is a natural progression of a business. Now, there's so much more to do because if we're ramping it up. Now is the time to create those systems so that when I say systems, that the issue is not necessarily time the issue is systems to make your time more valuable. So just to kind of give you direction on that. I'm not trying to make Peter look back. I just I've heard this a few times be right outside time. Like what's the other way of saying the time that's a solution-oriented thing. Like what? What is it about time that's stressful? Is there not time in the day? Well, yeah, I only have 24 hours. Well, then, if that's how you're thinking and you're not thinking about a business, you're thinking about a job, right? I have 6 billion people times 24 hours. That's how many hours I have. The question is My employing all those hours or not. And when you start thinking about things that way, then it helps you create a system. That's, that allows you to start building your business. from a perspective of I ultimately want to step away from this sucker and three to five years from now and not have to work. I probably still work as I love it. But I don't want to have to work in three to five years from now if I'm building my business to where I have to be there every day. That is not a business that is a glorified job with too many bosses. So so so next question, what is the hardest thing that you've ever accomplished?Has the thing I've ever be a half marathon, nothing to do with business? Hey, okay, two marathons and now money's gone. So I don't think I'm going to get a full half marathon but that is the hardest thing because I put my heart and soul into it and I got a half-decent time. I think I was seven minutes under what I wanted to achieve. So I was Yeah, it was enough. That's probably the hardest thing. I thought to dothat's cool. So what is the greatest success at this point in your life?The greatest success is?Well, my familyYeah, without a doubt what we've built for ourselves. Yeah, definitely. I love that.What is one secret you believe contributes the most to your success?believing in yourself. Simple as that, I think as you said before is that psychological element? And if you don't believe in yourself, how are other people going to believe in it? And that's not to say you have to be cocky and bolshie and look at me on a great. It just means that you believe that you can add value to somebody's life, and you can solve people's problems. I love that.So what are two or three books that you'd recommend to feel your legacy audience help them get their start?Yeah, so the first one is marketing rebellion by Mark Schaefer. Absolutely. Love it. It's him, it's his latest book. And the main statement that I took away from that is the most human company always wins. And that's very true. The second one, again, really, really fresh book, but it's this is marketing by Seth Godin. And in it, just one quote from it, he says, people like us do things like that. And what he means by that is that you need to find your tribe, you need to find the people that know you understand you, and I like you. Because people like us do things like this.Yeah, I love that. And that's it. That again, that's going down to your promise that's going down to your brand. Like when you're thinking of Who am I dressing this letter to? You're thinking of people like us do things like this. And even if you just use that in your, in your messaging, hey, people, people who want to want to focus on their legacy, and this is their goal for me and I'm personalizing this right if your goal is to feel your legacy and you want to build something you want to be remembered. X amount of years from now, people who want that they do X, Y, and Z and if that's all your campaign is then the people who are like I do want that then now they're going to naturally say okay well how do I accomplish x y&z what is it what is the process of doing these things? Because if that's what people do right if you want to be a millionaire you got to think like a millionaire. Okay. Question is how to millionaires think and where can I get access to more millionaires to find out how they think. And so it says it's the same thing. I love that quote. So now we're going to go into my favorite part of this episode. It's a surprise guy he's been itching he's a man What is it? What is this we're going to find out how in alignment? Peter something is. Are you guys excited about this? I'm excited about it because it's, you just never know. Kind ofmy feeling right now is exactly how I feel about leaving my job and going it alone. I'm excited but petrified at the same time.The funny thing is we're going to pretend that you're dead. Okay? Okay.So we're gonna pretend you're dead, and you have the special opportunity to come back and view your great-great, great, great-grandchildren sitting around a table talking about your life. This is six generations from now. Just think about six generations from now. There's back six generations ago that was pre World War One, like six generations, okay. So, six generations from now, your great, great-grandchildren. They're sitting around a table talking about your legacy, talking about what your life meant and what they gained from it. What do you want them to be saying about your legacy? Peter?Wow, that is a big question. I wish I knew I was coming. Just that he followed his passion, and he stood up for it, he believed in, if I can get it across, then I'm fine with that. And if that motivates anyone, the sixth generation of my family that motivates them to follow their passion Well do it securely, because I'm risk-averse. But no, seriously, follow that passion, even if it's a side hustle, even if it's just a weekend, do what you love of what you do.And just so you guys are clear. I believe that that is absolutely in alignment with the whole message of this podcast because it comes down to what are you doing and being who you say you're being. He's in the middle. He's in the transition, he stepped out on his own because he believes he can do it. And he's following his passion, regardless of what the consequences are. He did his worst-case analysis that hey, can I accept that? I can. We're going for it. So I love that. Thanks a bunch. Thanks for joining us. I know it's a little bit later where you're at than where I am. But I appreciate your insight. I hope everybody goes and takes the opportunity to reach out to you share this on social media and do the things that are going to help everybody gain greater knowledge in Marketing. It's not just about business. It's about life. It's about a legacy. It's about how you're going to be remembered. And what are you doing today to build that? Thank you so much for joining us, Peter.No, thank you. Absolute pleasure. I enjoyed it. Awesome. We'll catch youguys next time on fuel your legacy.Thanks for joining us. If what you heard today resonates with you please like comment and share on social media tag me and if you do, give me a shout out I'll give you a shout out on the next episode. Thanks to all those who've left a review. It helps spread the message of what it takes to build a legacy that lasts and we'll catch you next time on fuel your legacy.Connect more with your host Samuel Knickerbocker at:https://www.facebook.com/ssknickerbocker/?ref=profile_intro_cardhttps://www.instagram.com/ssknickerbocker/https://howmoneyworks.com/samuelknickerbockerIf this resonates with you and you would like to learn more please LIKE, COMMENT, & SHARE————————————————————————————————————Click The Link Bellow To Join My Legacy Builders Mastermindhttps://www.facebook.com/groups/254031831967014/Click here to check out my webinar as well! ————————————————————————————————————Want to regain your financial confidence and begin building your legacy?In this ebook you will learn:- The 9 Pillars To Build A Legacy- Clarify you “why”- Create Daily Action Steps To Launch ForwardWant Sam’s FREE E-BOOK?Claim your access here! >>> Fuel Your Legacy: The 9 Pillars To Build A Legacy————————————————————————————————————

Welcome!   The Holidays are almost here -- Hannakah begins tonight and the middle of next week is Christmas - Boy this year has flown by.  There is a lot of Tech in the News so let's get going! For more tech tips, news, and updates visit - CraigPeterson.com --- Related Articles: Signature Anti-Virus does not adequately protect you from today's Malware Lessons We Failed To Learn and Therefore Are Doomed To Repeat Business Computers Should Only Be Used For Business 5G - Not Ready For PrimeTime...Yet! Are You At Risk from Your Outsourced Software Provider Security - Knowing What You Have Is Essential Chrome 79 will continuously scan your passwords against public data breaches Getting the Perfect Tech Gift for Your Special "Techie" --- Automated Machine-Generated Transcript: Craig Peterson   Hey, hello everybody, Craig Peters on here on w GAM and online at Craig peterson.com. Hopefully, you're able to join me on Wednesday mornings as well as I am on live with Ken and Matt, we always talk about the latest in technology and news and of course in security since that's primarily what I've been doing for the last 20 plus years here in the online world, man, just thinking back, it's, you know, I first got on the internet. Of course, it wasn't called that. But way back in the early 1980s. And I remember in fact when I first started doing networking professionally back in 75, and there was no worry about anything with you know, yeah, okay, we didn't want people to hack into so you'd have leased lines for your business and I was doing a bunch of work. from banks way back when right, one of my first jobs, and I was really enjoying it, I just learned a whole lot up to today. And we're going to cover this here because my gosh, it's it has changed. The Internet used to be very libertarian, everybody on it was very libertarian or conservative. Of course, that's because there were a whole ton of government contractors on the ARPANET as well as some colleges and universities. And you look at it today, and you think that really it's changed dramatically which it has. But I think the ratio is probably still about the same. You've got the silent majority that just doesn't say much about anything, right. And then you've got this hugely vocal minority who's just yelling and screaming all of the time. And then some of these tech companies that are trying to straddle somehow in the middle and not get everybody all upset with them. It's really a Much different world. But when we're talking about security, it is nothing at all like it used to be. You used to go online, and you'd have some fun you, you know, exchange emails with people, you'd share some files and some fun things. I remember this one whole thread on chases. That was just absolutely amazing. I think I came up this time of years while it was all these puns about different cheeses. It was a lot of fun. Now today, we've got a whole different internet out there and a great article by Robert Limos and he is looking at WatchGuard Technologies' latest quarterly report that was published just last week. And this network security firm found that the percentage of malware that successfully bypassed anti-virus scanners IT companies network gateways has increased Significantly, watch guard technology is saying that the amount of malware that signature-based antivirus software catches, has plummeted to about 50%. Now, I think their numbers are high because I think it's more like 20%. But they're getting specific here. They're talking about the amount of malware that comes into a network via an external source. In other words, people are accidentally pulling it from a website they visit, or perhaps it's been injected into their systems through someone who's visiting their network and using another vulnerability. But they're saying that antivirus software This is signature-based stuff, that's what you get from Norton Antivirus. That's what you get from, you know, the Symantec people from McAfee from all of these different antivirus companies out there. It is just horrific what's happening because of what's known as zero-day now you might have heard of this before you might not have but basically what zero-day malware is, is malware is nasty software and malware includes things like viruses, worms, Trojans, etc. It is this type of malicious software that has not been seen in the wild before. And what it used to me is they would, you know, some brilliant person who as my mother would say, Why don't they do something useful with their time, some brilliant PR person would come up with a piece of software, no one had ever seen a way of attacking that no one had ever seen before. And they would attack us and they would get through because there was no signature for it or the engines in the antivirus software just could not manage to handle. You know malware like this new piece of malware that just came out the problem we're having today is that the majority of malware act just like zero-day. So here's what happens with a signature-based attack. You can think of it just like your body's anti-virus system night than what you have in your body. And your body looks at something that it sees and says, Have I seen this before. And if it has seen it before, it knows to attack it before. It grows really big and kind of starts to get out of control, and then the body has to attack it after it's already really, you know, it's taken the beachhead if you will use a military term. I've been watching a lot of world war two movies lately, but it's taken that beachhead and now has control of the beach and is starting to get in further and it's very difficult to get out versus it recognizes it almost right away as a nasty virus. And goes ahead and end the Jackson You know you have more cells in inside your body inside your skin there are more cells that are foreign to your body then there are body cells when you start counting all the bacteria and everything that's in your system and on your skin. It's just incredible. So our body relies on a lot of these things. In order to keep us healthy, if we had no bacteria, you be in trouble. It's like you know if you go on antibiotics, which is an anti-bacterial, what does the doctor tell you to do? Well, you know, start eating yogurt and, and other things. Maybe take some Kombucha or various other things in order to try and stay healthy. Get that good bacteria going in your gut again. Well, when your body is attacked by something that hasn't seen before. That's what we would call in the computer world as a zero-day virus has never been seen by Your body or in the case of a computer's never been seen by this signature-based antivirus software. So what the bad guys have been doing is they figured out how Yes, indeed we are trying to block them. And they figured out that the majority of us are using these signature-based antivirus software packages. So they've designed the viruses and the malware to change itself every time. So no longer can the antivirus software, just look for certain signatures. So for instance, if you were always attacked by blonde-haired blue-eyed Norwegians, you might be cautious next time you see a blonde-haired blue-eyed Norwegian approaching towards you maybe with a baseball bat or whatever it is, they might have in their hands, right? So you get worried about it. What's the old expression? Once burn shame on me. You twice burn shame on me. Right? So we learn we respond based on how we've been attacked before. And so does the antivirus software now it can take them days or weeks, even months to get a signature out and get it all dispersed. You know, I'm talking about the old software, not the newest stuff, not the enterprise stuff we use for our business client. But the stuff that you use as a consumer and Heaven forbid if your business and you're using stuff like Norton Symantec, or McAfee or any of these other a VG antivirus software packages that are based on signatures because they just don't work. So what happens is they change themselves constantly. So it might be a Norwegian, but they dyed their hair they put on colored contact lenses, and they change their clothing. That's effectively what's happening with our computers nowadays. It may be that Viking that's approaching you but you Don't know it because it just doesn't look like they change everything about themselves at least most everything except the malicious intent and what they end up doing once they've got control of you. So watch guard is saying that this is a major change here. Now I'm going to quote directly from them. The big change is that more and more malware is becoming evasive. So the signature-based protection is no longer sufficient. There's nothing wrong with having it because it will catch 50% to two-thirds of the traffic but you definitely need something more. And that's why I've been recommending you guys do a few things you can do the free stuff. If you are not a business, you can go to my favorite right now. Open DNS and sign up for an account. They have some paid stuff. I think it's $20 a month per computer, for business to get the basic business service. It's free. For a regular home user, but it does not allow you to do any customization. And then there are a few packages in between open DNS. Now we use a commercial version of is an enterprise version called brawler. That's where the calling it now, but it's the highest level where we can, you know, watch it and maintain it. So that's step number one of what you need to do get open DNS so that if you do get one of these pieces of nastiness like ransomware, and it tries to call home, it can't get the phone number, right. He can't call home because there's another phone number. And I think that's a very important thing to do. It's free if you're home user, you might want to pay for the family plan would block certain scary sites and certain things you probably don't want your kids to see pornography and other things open dns.com and then the other thing to do, I had it in my big course this last year and that was how to harden Windows machine. It's rather involved. And I'll probably do a course early next year on this. But make sure you harden your machine, you're going to want to turn off stuff you don't need, you're going to want to make sure your firewall is set up properly to do the types of blocks that you need. You're going to want to make sure that you've got Microsoft's new malware software installed properly and running properly. So I'll have a course on this early next year that you can get. Because when you're talking about 50%, and I've seen numbers as low as 20% effectiveness with anti-virus software, you have to do something. Hey, if you're looking to buy some gifts, I'm going to be talking about some of them in today's show, including five g should you get that phone, you're listening to Craig Peterson on w GAN and online. Greg peterson.com. Stick around. We'll be right back.   Craig Peterson   Hey, are you thinking about buying a mobile phone? We're going to talk about that right now. You're listening to Craig Peterson on WGN and online at Craig Peterson calm. Now you've heard about 5g. You're probably using 4g LTE right now, on your phone and maybe mobile devices you may be your iPad or a tablet that you might have. Amazon has its Kindles. They do not, by the way, have 4g LTE on them, at least, for the most part, they're using some of the much older technology because frankly, all they're doing is sending books right? Which are pretty small. But it is that time of year that we're buying presents and there are only a few days left here for that holiday season, purchasing time. And we've got a lot of competition in the 5g world. So let's talk about what this is. And I'll give you some tips. But what is going on? 5g holds a lot of promise. Now I don't know if you remember I remember how shocked I was at how fast 4g was. I bought a phone. And it had 4g LTE in on it. It was an Android phone. And I vowed never again for so many reasons. And you've heard them on the show here before, but I had bought an Android phone, and I didn't have 4g up where I lived. And I drove down. We were heading down. I think it was till Pennsylvania take one of the kids to camp. And I was going through Valley and I noticed Wait a minute. There's a big city right there. I got 4g so I immediately went to speed test.net and I ran the test to see just how fast is for G. And I was just shocked. I was getting like 20 megabits a second, which was absolutely amazing. Because I've been using cell phones since they first came out. And you know, back in the day it was 14 for right? Oh, cell phone so fast. And now just to see 20 megabits was absolutely mind-blowing. But there are some major limitations to the 4g LTE network that we are using today. And those limitations are speed for one. And then the other thing is the number of devices that can be supported. And then the cost of the data and the data transfers. So 5g has been under development for quite a while. And this is not we're not going to get into Huawei and how they stole all their technology. It really appears to be from our friends up at Nortel and put the whole company out of business because of the spine that they did. And thank goodness finally, we've got a president who's trying to do something about it. But five G's real promise for us right now is that we will get two things will get a gigabit worth of data bandwidth, which means by the way, that we may not even bother with Wi-Fi in our homes if you live in an area that has full 4g or 5g coverage because it's just going to be just as fast as your cable is right now. Now the cable companies are probably going to try and compensate by lowering their prices and giving you faster and faster and faster internet. But for a lot of people, it's going to make economic sense because the cost isn't going to be high. And then the second thing that 5g is going to give us is the ability to have billions of devices connected to the 5g network. That means that everything from our cars Which really the next generation of cars self-driving cars really do need 5g so they can talk to each other. So they can continually upload data to the cloud to let all of the routing computers know about local weather conditions and, and road and where the potholes are and everything is just, it's going to be amazing, right? On the one hand, on the other hand, well, there might be some data leakage that we might not want. So the cars are going to have it but so is pretty much every device that you have. A couple of years ago, I talked about the new jacket, the new trucker jacket that Levi's hat out. And that trucker jacket was designed specifically to connect your phone to your phone and allow you to control your phone. So it had Bluetooth in it. You could touch these little wires that were embedded into the sleeve with your hand and use that to control your cell phone. You know, listen to music and Suddenly things are just kind of cool. So our clothes are going to have the internet in them. Our computers, of course, everything you buy a laptop, it's going to have 5g built-in, you're not going to need to have an external device anymore. Just list goes on and on and on. I've everything that's going to happen is going to be phenomenal. But it is not there yet. And Apple did not include 5g with the iPhone 11 this year, it will include it with the iPhone 12. That's coming out next year. And I saw a very, very good summary of what's probably going to be coming out of Apple in September next year. The guy that published it has been spot on with most everything that Apple was coming up with. And they are he's saying that they are going to be having 5G on the phone and it would make a lot of sense. But right now you can put in orders for the Samsung Galaxy Note 10 plus the one plus 70 that's There are other phones that are claimed to have 5g. But listen, everybody, it is still too early to buy a 5g phone. That is really my big tip when it comes to 5g right now, these networks have not fully standardized, they are not running, none of them are running full 5g anywhere except in a couple of major cities. The biggest problem with building out the 5g networks is that they need to have basically what we've come to know as cell towers everywhere. I mean, everywhere. These are little micro things that are not big towers like we have right now. You know, those fake trees that you see that are actually cell towers. Now, these are going to be small boxes and they're going to be on pretty much every street corner in the big cities. They'll be on the sides of buildings. They'll be on the sides of people's houses. Cell companies are going to pay us to put these on our homes so that we can now provide 5g to us and to our neighbors. And then there's going to be people who will be upset because of the radiation, even though it's non-ionizing, and it's not known to cause any harm, people will be upset about it. But these things are going to be everywhere. And that's because remember, I'm talking about one gigabit worth of bandwidth coming down to your device. Well, you cannot do gigabit service on lower frequency so they have moved to higher frequencies. The old UHF TV channels are pretty much I think they're all gone now throughout the country. And the FCC has bought back the bandwidth and has auctioned it off to all of these different companies that wanted to buy it. And it's just everything is going to change and with the high frequencies that they need in order to deliver these beads, they now have a problem and that is these higher frequencies do not penetrate glass. They don't penetrate walls very well at all. And they just don't penetrate metal at all basically, it's really bad. So it T Mobile has announced nationwide 5g available as of last Friday. That is pretty darn cool. It's got a 600 megahertz 5g network which is going to cover most of the country. That is pretty impressive. But the trade-off is it's using low band 5g which means it is good at providing slightly boosted speeds inside buildings and is available in a lot more places than what competitors offer 18 T and Verizon are offering the opposite. They have ultra-wideband networks right now superfast speeds, but very, very small footprints very small pocket, and you got to be standing near one of these towns This is kinda cool T Mobile is expecting with theirs. That actually is p mag is PC Magazine, you can expect a boost of about 15 megabits with their new 5g nationwide. And you might see 150 megabits if you have a new 5g phone or 700 megabits if you have 4g LTE. So not a huge right now, but just wait. Okay, wait until next summer next fall, when things are really going to start happening. All right, stick around. We got a lot to cover still we're going to be talking about some guests who will talk about some of the big hacks of the year. What does it mean to us? What can we do? I'm going to give you some tips and some tricks, what not to do on your work computer third party security risks and some lessons from the National Security Agency. You're getting it right here from Craig Peterson on WGA and Craig Peterson Hello, welcome back. Greg Peterson here on w GAN will be enjoying the show today. We got a lot to cover here. Awesome. Good news, some gift ideas. I've got a very cool article from Ars Technica, about nine gift ideas for the tech enthusiasts in your life. And frankly, I am totally into this. It gave me a couple of ideas in fact of things that I'm going to be getting for people. So you might want to stick around and listen to that for the enthusiast in your life. And we're going to start right now with something that I think pretty much everyone's can be interested in. If you are, you know an employee, if you work at a company, and you use computers, there is a couple of words of caution here. In this segment, Now, first of all, the business computers are owned by the business. And that's kind of where this Bring Your Own Device thing has gotten everything a little bit fuzzy, you know, so if you are using your phone, for instance, your smartphone, and you're using it for work purposes, it's not the businesses phone. So there's not a whole lot that they can say about your phone and how you use your phone. However, the business has an absolute right to its data, and kinking troll, frankly, how you use your phone for the business data, right? Well, how about the computers that are actually owned by the computer? What can you do legally? And what can't you do? What can the business tell you that you should do with it and what can they not tell you what to do? Well, the bottom line is it depends. It depends on the business and what their policies are. So overall, that's kind of the first place you should check your employee handbook. Now we've provided a lot of businesses with employee handbook sections on this and you can certainly get them from your attorney from your corporate attorney, or from HR if you're an employee there. But if you're using a work-issued computer, now that includes a desktop computer includes a laptop, it's going to include things like iPads, even phones, you've probably checked your personal email on that device, you might have stored some files on there. You, you might have used it for a number of different things. Now in many cases, it's not a big deal as far as the company is concerned. You know, if you've got kids right to have a life outside the office, so for you to be able to send an email to the BBC. Or to make a few phone calls because babysitting didn't show up or a kid is sick or whatever. Most employers say that's absolutely fine if I died personally would not work for an employer. That said, That's not fine. I think that's a very, very big deal a very bad thing, the right companies that are like that. But when you start to store your private files on the company's computer, or maybe the company's Dropbox or Google Drive, or you are maybe going down a rabbit hole, as you started with something on Cora or you started with something somewhere else, and all of a sudden before you know it, it's an hour two hours later, or heaven for Ben, you are going to Facebook or some of these other sites to poke around. Then things change. Now many of us use messenger on Facebook in order to keep in contact with family and friends. So is it legit to have a messenger window open? Is it legit to do that, right? Well, the bottom line is you probably shouldn't do any of this on a computer provided by your employer. You're not necessarily breaking the law, but you could get fired if it's against your company's policies. And also, you need to remember that employers can install software to monitor what you do on your work-issued laptop or desktop. Now we do not monitor employees and what they're doing on a computer, except to watch for things that the employees might be doing that might harm the business directly. In other words, if an employee's bringing in a file from home, we're going to check that file. If they're downloading something from the internet. We're going to check that download. We're going to check their emails are going to clean them up, we're going to stop the ransomware we're going to stop the zero-day attacks that I talked about earlier. As well as all of the known types of vulnerabilities. But remember that not everybody is like us, right? We are not interested in getting involved in the businesses Workplace Relations, a lawsuit that a business might want to bring to against an employee, right? That's not what we do. Although we've certainly been pulled into those before in the past. And you need to keep that in mind as an employee because they can monitor what you do, they might put keyloggers on there to see what you're typing, they might have a software that takes a random screenshot. We've done that before with these workers that are doing a specific project. So we outsource something, there might be a graphic or might be writing an article or something, and we're paying by the hour for that contractor to do the work. So as part of the agreement, we have software that sits on the computer and randomly takes screenshots So we have an idea that yes, indeed, they are actually working on our stuff. And it took them five hours and we spent it to take one hour. And it's because they're slow, not because they were out wandering the internet and doing research on the party that's going to be coming up next week at the office or at their home, right. So be very careful about it. And the type of surveillance and security software that's installed on the company computer is usually based on two things, one, how large the company is, and what kind of resources they have to dedicate to watching you, and what type of information you deal within your role. Now, almost all of our clients in fact, now I think of it I think all of our clients are in what are called regulated industries. So if you're a car dealer, you're in a regulated industry, because you have payment card information, you have financing information on all kinds of personal information. So that has to be monitored, right? We have doctors' offices that have HIPAA requirements personal again, personally identifiable information, healthcare information. So security numbers, phone numbers, email addresses, and under the new regulations that are coming out right now, January one in California and Massachusetts in the European Union right now, and they are working on similar regulations on the federal level, even an email address is considered to be personally identifiable information. Until the list goes on and on if you have government contracts, we have clients that have DFARs or Defense Department requirements or FINRA, which is for financial organizations, right? That's what we do. So all of these heavily regulated businesses need to have software that is going to detect that someone is trying to exfiltrate data, shut it down immediately. We need to know that employees are trying to steal information. And in many of these cases, we will work with the company if there are lawsuits and ensue because of the regulation or because of other reasons out there. So if you're working with a company like this, which is frankly, in this day and age, every company, right, what, what employer does not have security numbers of employees? How do you pay them if you don't have the social security numbers, those are all falling under the regulations nowadays. And unfortunately, a lot of businesses don't pay attention to that. So a very small company, they're probably not doing this. But larger companies are definitely going to be doing this. And there's a great little quote here from Jesse crims. He's an Information Security Analyst over the New York Times and he said Without supporting evidence at this scale, at scale, it's pretty rare that people are not doing heavy surveillance and tends to generate a lot of useless data, roped employee into liability issues and generally make the team that monitors the surveillance systems miserable. In other words, you probably don't want to know. And that's the standard we take. We make sure that all of the regulations are complied with, but whether or not someone's sending an email to the babysitter or whatever, it's just not worth it. We're worried about espionage. Okay, so there you go. There are some tips for you. And using business security or using a business computer at work. Stick around. We'll be right back. We got some more stuff to talk about, including some major updates to the Google Chrome browser. Should you be using it anymore. We'll be right back. Craig Peterson Hello everybody, Craig Peterson here. Welcome back. We're listening Of course on WGAN or online at Craig Peterson dot com, you'll find me on pretty much every podcasting platform out there. And if you really enjoy the show, you know one of the best ways to let me know is to share it. I love to see all of the people who are listening and getting feedback from everybody so send me a note as well. But here's where you can go if you would like to give me a five-star review, just go to Craig Peterson comm slash iTunes. And right there, you can give me a five-star review. on Apple, they're still kind of the 800-pound gorilla in this space. Rumor has it that the next release of iOS is going to have some major improvement to this whole podcasting stuff. Apple really kind of started it with the iPod, which is where it got the name from. I still have one of my original iPods kicking around. It was frankly, it was my favorite device for listening to music. Anyhow, let's talk a little bit about some of the browser issues that are out there right now. Many people are concerned about the web browsers you're using. We know we're being monitored. We know we're being watched right now, by these big companies. Google makes its money by what? By selling our information. Facebook's the same way. Now Google is going to sell us advertising, and so is Facebook. And frankly, I would rather know about cars and see advertisements for cars. When it is the time I'm looking to buy a car right? And I'm never going to buy a lot of from Russia, right? So why would I want to see ads for that? So I am Pro, the monitoring in that space. Right. I, you know, you kind of go back and forth about that. You look at what President Obama's team did back when he was running for election the first time where they grabbed all of Facebook's data about everyone. And then they used highly targeted advertising. And then you saw what happened eight years later with President Trump and while the Cambridge Analytica scandal that was Child's Play compared to what President Obama's team did, but somehow President Obama's team didn't get in trouble for it. But President Trump's team certainly did even though Trump's don't get into that right now. But the browsers that we're using are tracking us. And remember, again, this old adage, it's old now, right? It's relatively new frankly. But if you do not pay for service, the odds are you are the product. And Google certainly considers that. And so does Facebook, that you are the product. So when you're looking at browsers, what should you be using the biggest browser out there right now the one that any software developers going to aim at is the Google Chrome browser. Because that's what most people use. It is really a great browser. From a functionality standpoint, people are using Google's Of course search engine, which has been very, very good here over the years. They, they've just done some wonderful things. And Google has added more and more features to their browser. Now, people ask me constantly, what is it that I use? What is it that I recommend? Well, I can tell you that Craig recommends that you don't use the Chrome browser when you can avoid it. Now I do use Chrome. When I am on a website, and I'm trying to do something and one of these other browsers doesn't work quite right. I go over to Chrome because it's not the worst thing in the world. It's not as though it has a direct backdoor into Russia, at least not that we're aware of, or into the CIA or the NSA. We know that Google doesn't like to cooperate with the US military, in some of its research projects, but Google also loves to cooperate with China and has three artificial intelligence labs in China. So it's giving China our next generation of computing technology for free but won't share it with our government. Yeah. Well, anyway, I guess I do get kind of political sometimes on the show. Google's Chrome version 79 just came up with a new feature. Now you know, when it comes to password, That I highly recommend you use some software called one password. They have some free stuff, they have some paid offerings. And what one password does is it keeps all of your passwords keeps them secure. You only have to remember one password, which is, frankly a huge win. And it was great in the business environment where you can set up vaults of passwords so that you know HR can have their own vault and this software development teams can all have their own vaults, and you can have your own personal vault, and it'll create passwords for you that are highly secure, that conform to the requirements for different websites and, and you can share them within vaults. There are just all kinds of wonderful things that you can do using one password. And then if you've been around a while, a couple of years ago, you know I offered a service that we were doing internally. We did this for free for over 1000 People, but we double-checked their password to see if not passwords but email address to see if their email addresses and passwords are out on the dark web. And you know, we checked it at least a month and generated reports for people. And that might be something we decided to do in the future. Well, there is a huge database out there that we've talked about on the show before. Google has now adopted in its Chrome browser. So Chrome 79 has what they're calling as a password checkup extension. So that was what how it all started. It was for desktop versions of Chrome, and it audited your passwords when you entered them, and took a look at them to see if those passwords were known to have been breached. Now, it's not necessarily that your account was breached, although it might have been it the password in the Heres why. Here's why they looked at the password itself. What the bad guys are doing nowadays is they are comparing your password against millions, hundreds of millions, in fact, billions of known passwords that people have used. And they start with the most common passwords and then work their way out from there. So if you're using a password that has been known to been breached in the past, it isn't something you should use. So I thought that was great. They had this password checkout extension. So now what they've done is they've integrated into every Google account and on-demand audit that you can run on all of your saved passwords. And in version 79. Google has a password checkout integrated into both the desktop and mobile versions of Chrome. So what will happen now is that if you are using Chrome to save your passwords, which I do not do as a rule, except for a few accounts I don't really care about because again, I'm using one password to keep my passwords and can keep them all straight? So it is built-in now. And anytime you enter in a password, it's going to check to see if that password has been breached anywhere online. Google is calling this private set intersection, which means you don't get to see Google's list of bad credentials. And Google doesn't get to learn your credentials. But the two can be compared four matches and basically what it's doing is it's doing mild encryption on your password and comparing it against this known setup password. So it's very, very good to do. One password has this feature already built-in password will warn you if I website that you're going to has been known to have been compromised. And Google's figuring here, that since it has a big encrypted database of all your passwords, I might as well compare against, compare them against this 4 billion strong public list of compromised usernames and passwords. They've been exposed in all kinds of security breaches over the years. And little on little later on today, we're going to talk about the top half dozen or so big security breaches, what caused them and then you might want to pay attention to to see if your information was exposed. But the main reason I like to talk about this stuff is so that you can look at your position, you know, at home or at work and ask yourself, hey, listen, there is this breach something that would have worked against us, right? I think it's very, very good. So Here we go. I'm not going to get any details here on what exactly what Google is doing and how they're doing it. If you are a chrome fan, you might want to use it. So let's talk about what the alternatives to Chrome or opera is a big one. And I have heard rumors that the Opera browser, which is kind of my primary browser, I have another one will tell you about in just a second, but opera very fast. It's designed to be secure. It also blocks a lot of spyware out there. Very good. But the rumors are that it is now in the hands of the Chinese government apparently owns it. I'm not sure that's entirely true. But, you know, it's up to you whether you want to take any risks. I'll tell you also about an extension I use in all of my browsers, which makes it much more secure much safer for me. We'll probably have to wait until after the top of the hour to get into that, but I'll tell about that. So what do I use the most? And what do I trust the most? Well, Netscape, the Netscape browser. Mozilla is the next one that I use opera is number one, at least for the time being. I use Firefox as well. Both of them do a lot of blocking, oh, I have a lot of privacy enhancements. Those are the two I use the most. And then I also use Apple Safari. Apple, again, is not selling your information as Google does. So it's considered to be a little bit safer. So far, we haven't known Apple to really leak information. They've been relatively safe, they certainly aren't selling it to anyone. And that's what I use. And then if I have to all fall back to Google Now, if I wanted to be extra safe online, there is another browser out there that I do like, and it's called epic EP, I see the epic browser. And it is actually based on Google's Chrome browser underneath the hood, just as Microsoft's browser is based on Google's Chrome browser. And Google is actually using a base form from Apple's Safari browser, which is kind of interesting. They all share code nowadays. But the epic browser is the browser if you absolutely want to keep your data safe. It even has a built-in privacy VPN. So check it out as well. When we come back, I'll give you a little clue here. A couple of tips on what you can do to keep every browser just a little bit safer. We'll get into some gift ideas and more. So stick around you're listening to Craig Peterson on WGAN and online at Craig Peterson dot com. Stick around. We'll be right back. Craig Peterson Hello, everybody, Craig Peterson here. Welcome back and listening to me on WG A in an online, Craig peterson.com. Hey, if you are a new listener, I just want to let you know a little bit about my background I've been helping to develop the internet, they in fact, just called a pie in the air you the other day, which is kind of interesting to think about. But yes, indeed, I designed and made some of the very first routers and some of the very first firewalls and load balancers and stuff back in the day. Let me tell you back in the day, we had to write these things from scratch because they just didn't exist as commercial products. And, you know, there's a lot of products I could have sold over the years but I'm just wasn't that kind of guy. Anyhow, so now I do a lot of cybersecurity for businesses, government agencies, most particularly really, for anybody in a regulated business, which today in this day and age means any business because we are all regulators I talked about in the last segment. Well, we have some gift ideas. And let me just start with one here. And then we'll get into some more articles from this week. We've we're going to be talking about the NSA here and what their top recommendation is for businesses. But you know, I am a techie guy, and I love tech and tech gifts and it's all just a pretty darn cool thing. When you get right down to it, just like, you know, I just love playing with this stuff. I guess that's the way to put it. And using it and making my life a little easier and faster, more efficient, effective, etc. But I want to talk about the high-end tech gifts that you might want to give, and you might want to give for yourself. In fact, that's exactly what I'm doing with one of these this year. Well, if you have somebody who's a gaming enthusiast, there are so many things out there that you can get for them. There's this one particular mouse that is very highly rated for gamers. It's called the razor Viper. It has some very, very fast, maneuverability stuff built in. Because of course, when you're playing some of these video games interactive, you need to be able to move very quickly so anyhow, we'll leave it at that because I am not a game type person. I used to play some, some games way back when you're in a dungeon with twisty mages, mazes, remember right how things started. But let's get into this. Now. This is one of the things I think would be a great gift for almost anyone, it's great for a computer that has the USBC which is the newest version of the USB cable. It is what the new Mac books come with the new max do as well. It's the next generation of the high-speed stuff that the last generation max had. But it also works with regular USB cable has a little adapter that you can use with it. It's called SanDisk extreme portable SSD. This thing is very, very nice. It's a good option for data you need to have with you wherever you go. It's surprisingly small. It is rated for the extremely high shock it's like 500 G's or something crazy like that. And it will withstand water and dust as well as vibration. You can drop it from six feet in the air without suffering any damage at all. This thing is amazing. And right now it is half price. Over on Amazon. Just look it up there. SanDisk is the name of the company S-A-N-D-I-S-K, it's their extreme portable SSD fits in the palm of your hand that you're going to love this. It's available in 250 gig 500 gig one terabyte and two terabytes now, I would not get the 250 gig, not that it's too small. But for an extra $10 you double your space up to 500 gig. Now when you go up to the one terabyte, which again is twice the space, it's twice the cost. So the one terabyte you're gonna have to ask yourself what makes sense and two terabyte options. But this thing is so fast, or what I love this for is to have different virtual machines on it. It's the one I use when I am doing a demo or for when I need to do a client-side install.  I can have every version of Windows on my need to use Mac OS all the different versions of that a few versions of Linux all right there on the drive. It's very very convenient. And very, very fast you're going to love this thing. In fact, that's one of the fastest portable storage solutions that has ever been tested. It's kind of similar you know you can get Samsung T five SSD, they have very good SSDs. Okay, don't get me wrong here.  The Samsung t five is more affordable but the SanDisk extreme SSD is better. Now I got to tell you that the cost right now on Amazon for this portable drive, there's no moving parts in it. As I said it fits in the palm of your hand. The cost on that is lower on Amazon right now. It's half price is lower than I can buy it from my distributors at So just to give you an idea of what a great value that is, coming up, we're going to talk about, I think the coolest gift you can give to somebody that is truly a hobbyist in the computer world, you're going to love it. And then if you are that person when you go to someone's house for Hanukkah, Thanksgiving, Christmas birthdays, whatever it is, and they say, hey, Craig, come over here for a second. my computer's not working right can you have a look at it will will tell you about the best gift for somebody like that and maybe some need to get get for yourself as well. So I'm going to talk right now about some of the biggest security breaches we'll go over one and then we'll get to some others little later on in this our last hour. And by the way, if you want to listen to the whole show, my podcast and everything. You can just go to Craig Peterson comm slash iTunes or slash tune in if you'd like to listen to it. On tune in or slash pretty much anything well actually if you type in slash pretty much everything you need an error page right? But you'll find me Craig Peters on on most of the major podcast sites that are out there by just going to Craig Peterson comm slash, whatever it is like Sasha Hart or slash SoundCloud or slash tune in, etc, etc. Well, data aggregators are big targets that are out there and who is a data aggregator? Well, let me tell you about what happened when I was at a wedding last week I was staying with my sister in law my wife and I, and there we got home and there was a card in the door and there's from an insurance company members like all state or something and, and it asked for one of my sisters in law, who had been living in that house to call so we thought okay, well, it's just a hoax thing. You know, they're they're trying to sell some insurance or something. So we just ignore that fact, I think we just threw the card in the trash. Well, the next night, we were sitting there at home and there's a knock at the door. And it's the same insurance agent. And she wants to talk to my deceased sister in law. And we get into this a little bit more and talking and talking to her trying to figure out what, what, what, why, what's going on. It turns out that someone was involved in a fatal car accident. And that person gave my deceased sister in-law's identity as her own. Yes, indeed, the dead are, quite frequently in fact, a victim of identity theft. Now we know about the dead voting right particularly in Chicago, and but in other places around the country. Well, in this case, apparently according to the report - she had been involved in a fatal car wreck about six months after she had died, and someone was dead. Obviously, this was a case of mistaken identity, but the insurance lady who's at the door, and she's obviously, some sort of an investigator used one of these skip trace databases in case you're not familiar with those. These are databases that are put together by data aggregators and data aggregators are these companies that suck up data from every public source they possibly can. And even some paid sources. And it includes records from credit card companies, and you name it, they pull it all together, they try and make heads or tails of it. So she had this report from a data aggregator and listed my long-deceased father in law's name is part of this and, and my kids, couple of my kids that had at one point staying for a visit with their grandmother, for a few months, while going to school, etc. and include my wife's name, my name just kind of went on and on. They got a lot of data wrong. And that's what I found to typically 25 to 50%, sometimes even more the data they have is incorrect. But enough of it was correct that she could kind of start piecing things together. And she was able to figure out that this was insurance fraud. Well, these data aggregators have massive databases as frankly, you might imagine. And they have these databases online. Yeah, you know where I'm going. This was a Mongo DB Mongo database, which is used, it's kind of it's called NO SEQUEL. It's an unformatted database. It's perfect for these data aggregators, and a company called verifications.io. That provided email verification services, had a Mongo database Continued over 800 million records publicly accessible to anyone in the world with an internet connection. And they had four sets of data. They'd had email addresses, dates of birth, phone numbers, physical addresses, employer information, IP addresses, business leads and other information. Not everything was sensitive. So when we get back we'll talk about what lessons should be learned what you can pick up from this a couple of tips for you. If you are a business person of any sort, or if you have data that might be in one of these databases, so we'll talk about these big verifications Mongo DB breach from this year and some more gift ideas right area listening to Craig Peters on online and here on WGAN terrestrial radio. Craig Peterson Hello everybody Greg Peterson back here on WG and online at Craig peterson.com. If you enjoy my show, by all means, make sure you subscribe to the podcast. Pretty much everything that I do goes up there my Wednesday mornings with Matt and can during their drive time show Wednesday morning that goes up there Other appearances go up there the whole radio show goes up there as well. Craig Peters on comm slash iTunes and do leave me a review if you wouldn't mind. You know those five-star reviews help get the message out. And we just passed another hundred thousand downloads, which is kind of cool. I appreciate it. Every one of you guys for listening. We try and get as much information as we can. So let's get back to our Well actually, you know There's something I forgot to button up from the last hour. Let's get to that. And then we'll get to some, some gifts and some more risks and what the NSA is saying right now, I had been talking earlier in the show about web browsers, and which browsers you should be using, which ones I recommend, then, you know, if you missed all of that, again, you will find it at Craig peterson.com, slash iTunes, you can listen to the whole thing right there. But I was talking a little bit about a plugin that I use. This is a plugin that works with pretty much any browser out there and works differently than any plugin that you might have been familiar with before. This is from the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Now I've had my disagreements with them in the past. Overall, I agree with a lot of what they're doing. But this is a plugin that goes into Chrome Opera or Firefox or pretty much anything that is called Privacy Badger Privacy Badger. So think about badgers if you know these things, they you'll find them a lot over in England, but they're over here too. They burrow underneath hedges and they like to live in the ground. And they are mean they will fight anything way bigger than they are. They don't care. They're going to win because they go all in. Well, that's what this is all about Privacy Badger. So I am on a website. Right now I'm looking at my browser and the Privacy Badger plugin, and it's got a nine on it right now. So what that means is that Privacy Badger detected nine potential trackers on this web page that I'm on right now. And it has sliders for them up there and it says you shouldn't need to adjust the sliders unless something is broken. So what Privacy Badger does is it watches you As you go to different websites, it looks at the cookies that are placed on your browser from these websites and determines, Hey, wait a minute. Now, this is a cross-site tracker. This is another type of tracker that we probably don't want to have. So it's showing them all to me. So here we go. Here's what I have right now on this website that I'm on. And the website is otter in case you don't use otter it is phenomenal transcription service, very inexpensive. 600 minutes for free every month. otter.ai but it turns out otter is using some tracker. So the first tracker showing me that Privacy Badger blocked is graph.facebook.com. So this is Facebook gathering data about me what I do where I go, the next one that's marked yellow, which is it has three different indications here on the slider. One is a blocks it entire The next one is that it could block cookies and then the far right one is to allow a domain to do it. So graph.facebook.com was blocked automatically static.facebook.com was allowed the regular facebook.com was allowed Google Analytics completely blocked API's Google com was allowed stripe checkout was allowed stripe as a payment service. JavaScript on stripe com was allowed and stripe network usually m dot means it's a mobile site. So that was blocked and Q dot stripe com was allowed but those are tagged the one these all of the ones I mentioned that were tagged, are considered to caution level. So by adding Privacy Badger as a plugin to any of your browsers Basically is going to stop sites from tracking you and it does a very good job. It learns as you go. It is not something that is prefixed with I'm going to block this site or that site. It is absolutely dynamic. I really, really like it. So check that out. This is kind of a flashback, as I said to an earlier segment where I was talking about which browser to use, what the considerations are. And this will work with any of them out there. So just do a search for Privacy Badger, it should come up near the top of your DuckDuckGo search. And it's five the Electronic Frontier Foundation e FF, check it out online. Okay, so now let's get into gifts again. I mentioned my top gift recommendation in the last segment. This one is for total geeks. Now we are using this for actually keeping timing tracking It's called raspberry pi. So we have a special card that goes along with this that has a GPS antenna attached to it and GPS readers so that we can track the satellites in the sky. We use the timing that they provide us with, we do some advertising. So that one of the things we do for our clients is we have to track their logs and keep real detailed records on their logs. We need to know exactly when Did something happen? So that if after the fact heaven forbid, someone gets in, some piece of malware gets in when did it come in? Where did it go? What did it do, right? Because you want to be able to know after the fact Well, what does it get access to? unlike so many of these companies that have no idea what they lost? In fact, most businesses don't even know until six months later that they were even the hack versus what the best in the biz are doing right now is about six hours, not just to detected but to remediation, which is where we sit well, usually within that six-hour time frame. Well, this is called a Raspberry Pi. And they've got the newest version of Raspberry Pi four. This is a small Linux computer. So if anybody that you know likes to hack together science projects or you know, do a little bit of experimenting, this is phenomenal, absolutely phenomenal. You can turn it into a retro game console, it'll play a lot of these old video games. A smart speaker that's a DIY thing. You can build it into your Legos to make a real fancy remote-controlled car. Anything your hobbyist mind comes into mind. This is phenomenal. You can for 100 less than 100 bucks, you can get a complete kit. Okay? The Raspberry Pi fours a lot faster and the older Raspberry Pi three Model B plus faster CPU you can put up to four gigs of ram in this thing. It is a phenomenal USB 3.0 port. So if you are or you know somebody that's really into DIY hobbies, this is the way to go. Okay? The Raspberry Pi four does get closer to your general and genuine desktop PC performance. But it's not really there yet. It's not one running Windows, it does run Linux, as I mentioned. And you can write basic programs for it, which is a programming language Python. If you have a kid that wants to learn Python, this might be a nice way for them to learn because they can kind of hack it together but it's just it's basically just a motherboard, you're gonna have to put it in a case by a case forward, you're gonna have to put a keyboard on it. A mouse, you have to put a display on it, okay, all kinds of stuff, but you can get just the basic Raspberry Pi four For someone that that really, really is a total hacker here, for like 4050 bucks, it's absolutely amazing. Okay, plenty of power for your money. Very versatile. In fact, it's more versatile in many ways than your Windows PC is. And for the budding engineer in your life, they will love you for it. So stick around, we're going to come back, I've got some more ideas for tech gifts that you might like. And we're going to talk about a couple more big hacks this year, and what it means to you. We've got third party security risks, the NSA has some advice for business and we'll tell you about that too. When we get back, you're listening to Craig Peterson right here on w GAN and online at Craig Peter song.com. That's Peterson with an O. Stick around because we'll be right back. Craig Peterson Hello, everybody, welcome back, Craig Peters on here on WGAN. And we're talking about stuff we usually talk about, you know, some of the security things, some of the latest technology that's out there. We're also doing a bit of a recap here some great gift ideas for the techie people in your life, even frankly, some of the non-techie people. And the security side, which is, I think, very important, can't talk enough about that. Because it could destroy your company, it could ruin that, frankly, the rest of your life could be a bit of misery, depending on what the bad guys do to you. Oh, it's absolutely crazy. told the story a little earlier of what happened with my deceased sister in law's identity, and how it was used in a fatal car accident and it's just it's amazing what some of these people are. Doing nowadays. And by the way, one of the most valuable segments of our population. We are know already about the retired people, the older people, right, who might be a little confused, hopefully, have some assets. But one of the most valuable identities out there online is that they have a child because their social security number and their identity are going to be very useful for at least a decade, if not longer because those kids probably not going to use it until they get their first job. So keep that in mind as well. Well, I want to get into these two things before the last half hour, so we'll cover these fairly quickly. But the big one, and that is waking up to third party security risks. Now one of the big attacks this year was Capital One and that's on my list of the ones I wanted to talk about today. They had personal information blog into overall hundred million US individuals and 6 million Canadian residents. Now, this was exposed. And when a former employee at Amazon Web Services inappropriately accessed the data, we could get into all of the real details behind this but the compromised information included names addresses, dates of birth, credit scores, payment history, contact information, and other information on people who had applied for Capital One credit card dating back to 2005. also exposed where the social security numbers of 140,000 individuals and bank account data blogging belonging to 80,000 secured credit card customers. So think about this for a little minute here. How many of us are using a service like Amazon Web Services, how many of us are relying on cloud services to keep our information safe? Right? Frankly, that's most of us, isn't it? And when you're talking about somebody like Amazon Web Services, or now there's Microsoft Azure, those are kind of the two really big players. IBM also has its cloud online that they sell access to. Most businesses look at it as a way to save money. Most businesses consider, hey, I don't need to keep track of the security, because my vendor is keeping track of it for me. And what we found out is, that's not true. So the lessons learned here. We'll start with that here from Capital One is that cloud service may be attractive because it's cheaper than doing it yourself. And that's particularly true, frankly, throughout the whole range, but it's particularly true for large businesses, but even for small business. businesses, can you really afford the right kind of server? Now I know a lot of small businesses go to the local staples store and buy a computer and call it a server, right? And maybe $800,000 later, they're out of there. Whereas a real server that's going to be really reliable is going to last years, you should be looking at more like 15 to $20,000 for. So businesses say, well, I'll just do it in the cloud. I'll use Amazon Web Services for this and we'll hire a consultant who's going to help us set it up. And we're going to use maybe Dropbox for that and maybe office 365 for this and now all of a sudden, I'm safe. Well, you're not. And companies, you guys are putting your data at risk, because you haven't adopted a security infrastructure, with the vigor that you need to apply. It should be at least as good as what You're using for your on-premise stuff. But you know what so many SMEs aren't even doing it right for on-premise stuff. Okay? So you're ending up with all of the financial cost of the penalties that you rack up, and the lawsuit and the cost of those lawsuits, which will vastly outweigh any it savings that you might have down the road. So keep that in mind. And that's what Capital One just learned this year. The Why? Because we're not taking third party security risk to heart Ponemon Institute did a study here 2018 founded 60% of customers surveyed, had suffered a data breach caused by third parties or vendors in the last 12 months. So what's causing it? Well, these applications are being built very different than they were a decade ago. They are online. They're using APIs. And they are not considering the security risks. So all services are connecting internally and externally via these APIs, popular finance websites load on your browser mobile apps, you can see the results. Dozens of third party services, okay, web apps, middleware, other code. This is a real problem. So, protect your own infrastructure, Step number one. Step number two demanded the others protect their infrastructure, okay. And trust yet verify. What we do is we wrap special security software around all of these third party infrastructure Software-as-a-Service sites that are out there, okay. So be very, very careful and you have to test even more for third party sites and you know, businesses just aren't testing as much as they should. So there you go. There's a couple of tips here three tips on what to do. When you are talking about third party security risk, and that is with all of these guys, Okay, number one, make sure your infrastructure is protected that you have the right kinds of firewalls and you have the right kind of malware treatment that's in place. All the other security controls, make sure they're configured right? If you're using something like Amazon Web Services, or Sure, or office 365, make sure you have the right settings. You know, it's difficult I get it, Microsoft has over 10,000 skews 10,000 products that are available in they're all software and services. There are dozens and dozens just for office 365 based systems. So make sure you have the right stuff. Make sure that they have proper compliance and certifications. And remember too that the certifications they have just represented a point in time. Do they still have the right kind of security? And because we are running our technology in this new type of infrastructure, make sure, frankly, that we keep track of everything because a breach can happen quickly do millions of dollars of damages right away. And 20% of businesses will file for bankruptcy the very next day. All right, well, let's talk about another gift here real quick before we go to a quick break. And this is for those of us that we go to a family event, and we go anywhere, and it's a Craig come over here for a minute, I need some help and you go over there and of course, it's questions and problems about their computers. So here's what I recommend. Get that person in your life if they're fixing the computer for that for you. I fix it. Great site painting Go online to find out how to fix physical problems. But they have something called the I fix it pro tech tool kit. I have one of these my kids have one of these. My technicians in my business have one of these. It's a 64-bit driver set that has all these weird types of sockets and everything on them. Because these parts and the computers that have the special locking screws and everything else, you need this Okay, the I fix it pro tech tool kit. Stick around. We'll be back with a wrap up for today's show. And we'll talk a little bit more about some gifts right here. You're listening to Craig Peterson on w GN. And the course online Craig Peterson calm. Stick around because we'll be right back. Craig Peterson Hello everybody Craig Peterson here WGAN and online at, of course, Craig Peterson dot com. Hope you've enjoyed the show today we have covered a lot of different things we talked about third party security risks for businesses which web browser you should be using. If you want to keep safe and some of the updates that Chrome has from Google, they'll keep you safer online. What not to do on your work computer. Why it's still too early to buy a 5g phone and signature antivirus and how it is at best catching 50% of the malware out there. It's getting really, really bad. And we've talked a little bit about some of the top breaches this year and there are some pretty scary Ones out there. But how does it apply to you? And how does it apply to your business as well? And we got one more that was brought up on the website at Craig Peterson calm, you can see all of these up there, a little bit of mind commentary and links to other articles online. But this is about the NSA and what the NSA, the National Security Agency is saying that we should be doing as businesses, but this applies 100% as well, to you as an individual. And the basics are to focus on your assets. And this is a very, very big deal. W