Podcasts about divorcing a narcissist

"One parent becomes the good parent, and one parent becomes the bad parent." That's how Shawna Leatherman describes the moment parental alienation actually begins, and it's almost never in a courtroom. It starts small: a "no more juice" overruled at bedtime, a rule at one house that quietly doesn't apply at the other. Thirteen years into her own experience with parental alienation, Shawna, who writes and speaks as "The Unseen Parent," walks through exactly how those tiny, seemingly insignificant moments compound into a full alienation pattern, and why almost nobody sees it happening until it's too late.In this conversation, Shawna and Lisa break down the mechanics of undermining, exclusive alliance, and what psychologist Dr. Amy Baker calls "poisonous messages" - the subtle signals that tell a child their other parent is unsafe, unloving, or unavailable. You'll hear how something as small as a sigh before answering the phone, or asking "are you okay?" a little too often, can quietly convince a child that one home isn't safe. This is a practical, pattern-recognition-focused conversation for any co-parent who suspects something is happening but can't quite name it yet.  WHAT YOU'LL LEARN: ✅ How undermining ("no, it's okay, you can have it") lays the groundwork for exclusive alliance ✅ The difference between the "enforcer" parent and the "rescuer" parent — and why it matters ✅ What it means to "minimize the other parent's authority," and how kids absorb it ✅ The "Three U's" framework: how poisonous messages paint a parent as unsafe, unloving, or unavailable ✅ Why the "are you okay?" phone call is one of the most common (and least recognized) forms of alienation ✅ The "eye shot" rule — why body language matters even when your child can't hear you ✅ Why most parents doing these things aren't fully aware of the damage they're causing ✅ How to start recognizing these patterns in your own co-parenting relationship before they compound  ABOUT SHAWNA LEATHERMAN: Shawna Leatherman is a mother, writer, and advocate who has lived through parental alienation for almost 13 years. She created "The Unseen Parent" as a resource and community for parents who feel isolated, unheard, and judged for an experience most people don't understand. She is the author of "The Unseen Parent: When Silence Hurts — Faith, Truth and Loving Through Parental Alienation," which draws on her own journal-writing as a form of therapy and offers a faith-rooted perspective on truth, forgiveness, and resilience. Shawna's work focuses on making alienation dynamics visible — not as a men-versus-women issue, but as a behavioral pattern that can happen to any parent, and one she believes needs to be discussed openly rather than in silence.  

"A toxic environment is a toxic environment, whether the parents are together or they're separate." That's not a divorce coach talking. That's Dave Kopeny — a former probation officer, school counselor, and sheriff's department investigator who now works as a private investigator specializing in families whose teenagers are struggling with substance use. And what he told Lisa in this conversation is something every parent navigating a high-conflict divorce or difficult co-parenting situation needs to hear: research shows an amicable divorce is actually better for a child's mental health than staying in a toxic marriage. The problem is, most of the people in our community don't have an amicable divorce. They have a toxic divorce and a toxic co-parenting situation — and that, Dave explains, is one of the heaviest burdens a child can carry, precisely because they have no control over it.This episode goes far beyond drug facts and statistics. Dave draws a direct line between the conflict a child witnesses at home — whether inside a marriage or across two households — and their risk of turning to substances to cope with feelings they don't know how to name. He also speaks candidly to a dynamic so many BTGO parents live with every day: the co-parent who checks out entirely. Dave sees it often in his own work with families — usually a father who doesn't have day-to-day custody, is angry at his ex, and simply stops showing up. Dave's advice for the parent left holding it all is direct, practical, and free of judgment.What You'll Learn:✅ Why research shows an amicable divorce protects kids better than a toxic intact marriage✅ How ongoing co-parenting conflict becomes a burden kids have no ability to control ✅ What to do when only one parent is willing to engage with a struggling teen ✅ Why you can't have a productive conversation with your child while you're dysregulated yourself ✅ The specific behavioral changes Dave tells parents to document before confronting a teen ✅ Why a mother's intuition about her child is worth listening to — and what Dave tells fathers about it ✅ How to reframe a hard conversation as "you and your child against addiction," not you against your child ✅ Why today's marijuana is a different, far more potent substance than the drug earlier generations knew ✅ The "four eyes vs. two eyes" problem single parents face — and who to bring in when you can't partner with your ex ✅ How to open a non-shaming conversation with a teen you're worried about, in under two minutesAbout Dave Kopeny:Dave Kopeny brings a rare, full-circle perspective to the world of adolescent substance use. He grew up in a household shaped by his father's alcoholism, later lost a brother to long-term addiction and a sister-in-law to a heroin overdose — experiences that shaped both his empathy and his career. Dave spent decades working directly with high-risk youth, starting as a juvenile probation officer in California, then serving as a school counselor, returning to intensive probation work, and later investigating for a sheriff's department. Today, as a private investigator, he specializes in helping families whose children are struggling with substance use disorder find their way toward lasting sobriety. He is the author of a book on adolescent addiction and founded a free online community where parents can learn the facts about teen substance use without cost or obligation.

"Force demands fairness. Power prepares for reality. Force chases. Power disengages when engagement is useless." That's the framework Manalizing founder Garth Haslem uses to explain why so many marriages, divorces, and co-parenting relationships fall apart — and it's strikingly close to what we teach in our own Strategic Communication Course.In this raw, unscripted conversation, Lisa sits down with Garth to unpack the difference between force and power in relationships, why men are conditioned from childhood to stay silent about what's actually hurting them, and what happens when decades of suppressed emotion finally come out "in the wrong place, with the wrong people, at the wrong time." If you've ever wondered why your ex communicates the way they do, why the men in your life won't open up, or why your own attempts to "just talk it out" keep backfiring, this episode reframes the whole conversation.WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:✅ The difference between force and power — and why force always backfires in high-conflict situations ✅ Why men are taught from childhood that vulnerability is dangerous, and what that costs them (and their families) ✅ The "trash compactor" pattern: how suppressed emotions eventually explode at the wrong time ✅ What "divorce brain" is, how to recognize it in yourself or your ex, and why it's a form of force ✅ How internalized criticism turns into self-hatred — and sometimes into abusive behavior ✅ Why some men become the "ATM Dad" and how that dynamic damages marriages from the inside ✅ A real, vulnerable account of parental alienation from a father's perspective ✅ The structure of a Manalizing meeting: the declaration, the "one word" check-in, being heard, and being seen ✅ Concrete examples of force vs. power language you can apply to your own co-parenting communication ✅ Why "happy wife, happy life" can quietly become a form of coercive control when taken too far ✅ How isolation compounds a crisis — and why having even one person who will listen changes everythingABOUT GARTH HASLEM: Garth Haslem is the founder of Manalizing, a national peer support community that meets twice monthly by Zoom to give men a structured, confidential space to be heard, seen, and known — often for the first time in their adult lives. Garth built Manalizing out of his own hard-won experience: two marriages, a divorce he navigated with no one to turn to, and a relationship with one of his three daughters that remains estranged today. He speaks openly about his own struggles with meaninglessness, force, and control, and has adapted Dr. David Hawkins' "Power vs. Force" framework into a practical, everyday tool for men navigating conflict, divorce, and fatherhood. Garth is not a therapist — he is something rarer in this space: a man willing to go first.

"I would wake up every single morning, there'd be a moment when I'd forget who I was, and then I would just be furious. And it wasn't even at my ex — it was at the system allowing this to go on and on and on." If that sounds familiar, this conversation is for you. Lisa opens this episode admitting that rage is one of the single most common emotions she hears about from people living with legal abuse and parental alienation. So she brought in Jen Gallagher, a limited license psychologist in Michigan with over 20 years as a therapist, who now specializes in helping women work through rage using a neurobiological, brain-based approach. This isn't a conversation about anger management. It's a conversation about why your rage might be the sanest possible response to years of injustice — and what to actually do with it so it doesn't run your life, or your health, from the inside. Jen explains the real difference between everyday anger and deep, cumulative rage, why rage is a normal, protective emotion your brain is designed to feel (not a character flaw), and why the physical toll of suppressing it for years can show up as chronic illness, "sideways" explosions, or relentless self-criticism. If you've ever asked "when is this going to stop hurting," this episode gives you a real answer. What You'll Learn: ✅ The actual difference between anger and rage, and why rage runs so much deeper ✅ Why rage is one of the brain's built-in protective systems, not a personality flaw ✅ How to tell the difference between rage (a feeling) and violence (a behavior) ✅ Why men and women are conditioned to express rage so differently ✅ Why there's no "timeline" for how long you're allowed to feel furious ✅ Why chronic legal abuse produces a completely sane, expected rage response ✅ The physical cost of suppressing rage for years, including chronic illness ✅ How trauma can disconnect you from rage you don't even know you're carrying ✅ The first step to reclaiming your rage: simply naming it out loud ✅ A simple body-awareness practice to interrupt a rage spiral in real time ✅ What to look for in a therapist if rage is the issue you need help with About Jen Gallagher: Jen Gallagher is a limited license psychologist (a Michigan-licensed therapist with a master's degree) with more than 20 years of clinical experience. Her practice takes a neurobiological, brain-based approach to emotional healing, and she primarily works with women in midlife who are learning to build a healthier relationship with their rage — turning it into a source of power and energy instead of shame. She describes rage as one of the most misunderstood emotions, and she's made it her mission to change that.

"One hundred percent of what was reported back to me was untrue." That's what it's like to be the step-parent inside a parental alienation campaign — standing in the middle of a custody war that started long before you arrived.In this conversation, licensed clinical social worker, former guardian ad litem, and 40-year psychotherapist Jessica Anne Pressler shares something we almost never hear on this channel: what parental alienation looks like from the step-parent's chair. Jessica spent 15 years inside the court system conducting custody evaluations, and she also lived through alienation herself as the new partner a mother turned her daughter against.Jessica's story starts with a genuinely happy first year, a proposal, and then, almost overnight, a child who wouldn't come to the house anymore. We talk through the emails that arrived hours after her wedding, comparing her to a "black widow." Jessica calls this "borrowed scenarios" — language dressed up as a child's own feelings that could never have come from an eight- or nine-year-old.We also dig into what happens to the "healthy" partner who watches someone they love get pulled away by fear of losing a child. Jessica is honest about her husband's catch-22 — caught between the family he built with her and a daughter conditioned to see any closeness with Jessica as betrayal of her mother. And she's just as honest about her own fear of abandonment, what she calls her own "traitor within," also the title of her forthcoming novel.What You'll Learn:✅ Why children work so hard to please the alienating parent, and how "conditional love" and fear of loss drive that behavior✅ How to recognize "borrowed scenarios" — adult language coming out of a child's mouth✅ Why an ex refusing to allow a child into therapy is itself a red flag worth naming✅ What "hatred by association" looks like when it spreads to a target parent's friends, hobbies, and new family✅ How grandparents and extended family can become "flying monkeys," and why it happens✅ Warning signs new partners often miss before marrying into a high-conflict family✅ Why the divorce becoming legally final can trigger an ex rather than settle things down✅ What a target parent's household needs to be for a child: calm, safe, and free of commentary about the other parent✅ Why BTGO tells clients not to question their kids about time spent with the other parent✅ Where a target parent's own grief and anger belong — and why it's never in front of the kidsAbout Jessica Anne Pressler: Jessica Anne Pressler is a licensed clinical social worker with nearly 40 years of experience as a psychotherapist. For 15 years, she conducted custody and visitation evaluations within the family court system, giving her a rare, dual vantage point on parental alienation — as a professional evaluator and, later, as a step-parent who lived through it in her own marriage. She is the author of the forthcoming debut novel "The Traitor Within," following a woman named Cassandra through a cycle of toxic relationships and the internal "traitor" that keeps her abandoning herself first. Jessica has appeared on Been There Got Out before, and her story is also referenced in our book "When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You."

"That is gaslighting — because the parent isn't thinking about what the child is going through. They're just making the child question their own reality."That's how licensed Marriage and Family Therapist Pinkal Panchal describes one of the most common — and most invisible — things that happens to kids caught in a high-conflict divorce or custody battle. Not the dramatic stuff. The quiet, everyday moments: a comment here, a video call there, a "your mom isn't as good as you think" dropped into an otherwise normal afternoon.In this conversation, Pinkal joins Lisa Johnson to unpack exactly what gaslighting looks like when it's aimed at kids instead of a partner — and why so many well-meaning parents do it without ever meaning to.What You'll Learn✅ How to recognize when a child is being fed conflicting realities between two homes✅ Why kids describe the divorce experience as "heartbroken, dream-broken, and brain-broken"✅ The physical and psychological symptoms Pinkal sees most often in alienated kids, including hypersomnia and eating disorders✅ A real case example of a parent using a child to monitor an ex's dating life — and why it backfires✅ Why permissive, rule-free homes often (temporarily) win a child's loyalty✅ A concrete, repeatable strategy for reconnecting with a disregulated or pulling-away child✅ Why giving your child real agency is more powerful than defending yourself✅ The three questions Pinkal asks before recommending couples therapy after domestic violence✅ Why Pinkal believes family therapy should happen before the legal battle, not afterAbout Pinkal PanchalPinkal Panchal is a licensed Marriage and Family Therapist based in Newport Beach, California, where she runs a private practice serving clients from age two through seventy-five and older. Pinkal specializes in couples and family work, and she also facilitates a free, anonymous domestic violence support group where survivors can log in, share, and be heard without ever turning on a camera or revealing their name. Coming from a community where mental health carries deep stigma, Pinkal has made it her mission to bring therapy and honest conversation to people who might otherwise never ask for help. In her therapy room, she regularly works with children caught in the middle of custody battles and with the parents trying to rebuild those relationships.

"Our Family Wizard is the single source of truth." That's how attorney and Guardian ad Litem Elle Barr describes the platform she helps educate judges and family law professionals on nationwide - and it's a line worth sitting with if you're currently fighting to be believed by a court, an evaluator, or your own attorney.  In this episode, Elle joins Lisa and Chris to pull back the curtain on OurFamilyWizard (OFW), one of the most commonly court-ordered co-parenting apps in the country. If you've ever wondered why a judge would order you onto a parenting app, whether it's really different from just texting your ex, or how its AI actually rewrites hostile messages before they're sent, this conversation answers all of it - straight from someone who sits on both sides of the process.  Elle starts by dismantling the biggest misconception she hears from parents: that a court-ordered parenting app exists to punish them. In reality, it exists to protect the child by reducing conflict and creating accountability for both parents - not just the one who "needed" it.  Every action on OurFamilyWizard is time-stamped and preserved, which is why Elle calls it a single source of truth: messages can't be quietly edited or deleted, and that permanence protects both people, not just whoever's usually blamed for starting conflict. That protection matters more given what Elle describes next: "deceitful software," a growing category of apps that let someone fabricate an entire fake text or voicemail thread and present it as real evidence. She shares a personal story involving her own children pranking her with a spoofed phone call to show just how convincing these fakes can look.  The heart of the episode is Tone Meter AI, OurFamilyWizard's built-in artificial intelligence that flags an inflammatory message in real time and offers a calmer rewrite before it's sent. Elle walks through a live example - a father about to write "don't be late as usual" - and shows exactly how the AI intercepts it. If you've worked on gray writing or the FRAC model with BTGO, this will feel like validation from an independent source: a leading family-law technology platform arrived at nearly identical communication principles.  Elle also addresses privacy directly. She explains why OFW added a blurred video background to its Calls feature, protecting a survivor's location during virtual visitation, and is direct about children's limited accounts: they see the shared calendar and journal, but not private messages between their parents.  Most useful for BTGO's community: Elle confirms OurFamilyWizard offers fee waivers not only for financial hardship, but for any survivor with a protection order, restraining order, or civil restraint - a resource many don't know exists.  The conversation closes with two scenarios many of you are living right now: what to do when your ex claims they "can't figure out" the app, and how to make a persuasive, low-conflict case for using a parenting app before you have a court order requiring it.  

"Obsessive thinking is repetitive self-stimulation. It has movement in it — thought is a movement, it's an energy form." That's how somatic psychologist Annie Brook describes the loop so many of us get stuck in when life feels unsafe and unsolvable — the 3am replaying of a text from your ex, the imagined arguments you have in the shower, the same worry circling through your mind for the hundredth time.  If you're navigating high-conflict divorce, co-parenting with someone who won't cooperate, or the daily uncertainty of parental alienation, you already know this loop intimately. Chris Barry welcomes back somatic psychologist Annie Brook, Ph.D., LPC, for her second appearance on Been There Got Out, this time diving deep into why our nervous systems get hijacked by obsessive thinking, and exactly what to do about it.  Annie doesn't just explain the neuroscience, though she gets wonderfully geeky about the amygdala and hippocampus along the way. She teaches real, physical, in-the-moment tools you can use the next time your brain won't let go: an exercise to find the "center" of your head, a boundary practice she calls the hula hoop, a detective exercise for noticing exactly how you ruminate, and her signature "Blink Blink" technique for turning a stuck, painful thought back into free energy. Chris connects each tool directly back to what our community faces: court prep, hostile co-parenting calls, and the exhausting mental replay that comes with legal abuse.  What You'll Learn:  ✅ Why obsessive thinking is your brain's attempt to "motor" its way out of an unsolvable stress, not a personal failing ✅ How a simple axis exercise helps you find the calm, centered part of your brain instead of the anxious, analytical forehead ✅ How to build an invisible "hula hoop" boundary that protects your energy without shutting people out ✅ How to put on a "detective hat" and identify whether your rumination shows up as pictures, words, or sounds ✅ Why talking to your own rumination like a friend who needs help can surface what you actually need ✅ How one client turned a court-ordered call with her abusive ex into a "bingo card" that made the calls bearable ✅ Why staying "on the surfboard" instead of getting pulled into the emotional undertow protects your nervous system ✅ How the "Blink Blink" technique dynamites a stuck thought and turns it back into usable energy ✅ How the amygdala and hippocampus build a lifelong "file cabinet" of safety patterns, and why that matters for your triggers ✅ Why nervous system regulation isn't a luxury for our community, it's a strategic necessity for court and co-parenting  About Annie Brook: Annie Brook, Ph.D., LPC, is a somatic psychologist with over four decades of experience helping people repair and regulate their nervous systems. She is the former Director of Body Psychotherapy for the Master's program in Somatic Psychology at Naropa University, and co-founded the clinic Colorado Therapies, where she has worked with families, children, gang-involved youth, and survivors of abuse. Annie holds a Ph.D. in Perinatal and Somatic Psychology and blends neuroscience, movement, and body-based practices to help clients recover from trauma and chronic stress. She teaches ongoing classes including Healing Complex Trauma and Healing Birth Trauma, trains therapists in somatic methods, and is expanding her practice to include equine therapy. This is Annie's second appearance on Been There Got Out, and Chris and Lisa consider her one of the community's most requested guests.

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“The court doesn't care who was mean.” That's not a throwaway line, according to Beverly Hills divorce attorney Nikoo Berenji, it's one of the biggest blind spots she sees parents walk into family court with, and it can quietly sabotage an otherwise strong custody case.In this conversation, Nikoo, Senior Counsel at Berenji & Associates and a 20-year veteran of high-net-worth, high-conflict divorce litigation, breaks down exactly what judges weigh when deciding custody, and what doesn't move the needle at all, no matter how unfair that feels. She walks through a real case where a mother spent enormous time and money building a case around her ex's past absence as a parent, only to watch it backfire because the court only cares about what's best for the child going forward, not who was the “better” spouse in the past.She also shares a case where a court took the rare step of giving a father six months of primary custody to reset a relationship that had been damaged by alienating behavior; proof that judges are paying closer attention to alienation than ever before.Whether you're early in your custody case, deep into a years-long battle, or trying to figure out why your strategy isn't working, this episode reframes what “winning” in family court actually requires.WHAT YOU'LL LEARN:✅ Why proving your ex was a bad spouse rarely helps your custody case — and can actively hurt it✅ The one best-interest factor that quietly decides more cases than people realize✅ A real case where alienating behavior led a judge to remove children from their primary caretaker for six months✅ How false or exaggerated domestic violence claims get used as a “silver bullet strategy” — and why it can backfire✅ Whether courts are getting smarter about recognizing parental alienation tactics✅ Why interrogating your kids after time with the other parent can be used against you✅ The boundaries you need around discussing legal matters when kids are in the home✅ Why a detailed, specific parenting plan prevents more conflict than any argument ever will✅ The “therapy clause” that can eliminate one of the most common sources of post-divorce conflict✅ Signs your child is struggling, even if they seem like they're handling everything fine✅ A simple daily practice Nikoo recommends to every client, no matter how skeptical they are at firstABOUT NIKOO BERENJI:Nikoo Berenji is Senior Counsel at Berenji & Associates Divorce Lawyers, a Beverly Hills family law firm marking more than two decades of practice focused on high-net-worth, high-conflict divorce and custody cases. Before family law, Nikoo built her career in corporate law and government criminal practice, graduating from UCLA and earning a full scholarship to Berkeley Law, where she also served as a federal judicial extern to the Honorable Judge S. James Otero before starting out as an associate at Latham & Watkins LLP, one of the largest law firms in the world. That combination of corporate, criminal, and family law experience shapes how she approaches the emotionally charged, financially complex cases her firm handles, many of which involve narcissistic dynamics between spouses who are highly successful in their professional lives. Nikoo is also an adjunct professor at both UCLA School of Law and USC Gould School of Law, and she and her team work with clients across the country and around the world, with a particularly heavy concentration of cases in Southern California.

She spent five years on the inside of the family court system as a Connecticut Family Relations Counselor — the person who meets with both parents, talks to the kids, and writes the recommendation the judge leans on. In this candid conversation, Sue Gabriele explains the quiet, well-intentioned mistakes that sink good parents before they ever reach a courtroom, and what to do instead.If you have ever walked in armed with a binder of everything your ex has ever done wrong, this episode will change how you prepare. Sue shares why "suitcases full of papers" backfire, why a clean, color-coded timeline beats a stack of journals, and how to give a busy professional the facts they can actually use in the limited time they have with you.She also pulls back the curtain on something most parents never hear said out loud: the system is built to push the "weaker link" into giving up, because a settlement means no one has to write the long report. Knowing that going in changes everything about how you hold your ground.Whether you are still deciding to leave, deep in a custody dispute, or trying to co-parent with someone impossible, Sue's insider perspective helps you stop fighting the battles that don't matter and start building the case that does. As we say at Been There Got Out, courts often don't care about the abuse you suffered the way you wish they would — they care about the present, the child, and the proof. This conversation shows you how to meet them there without losing yourself.A quick, important caveat: Sue's experience is grounded in Connecticut, and family law varies widely by state. Treat her insights as a lens for understanding how court professionals think, not as legal advice for your specific case.ABOUT BEEN THERE GOT OUTLisa Johnson and Chris Barry are high-conflict divorce, custody, and co-parenting strategists who help good people navigate the family court system and protect their relationships with their children. We fill the gap between what attorneys are trained to do and what therapists understand.Get our books, "Been There Got Out" and "When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You," and learn about our courses and 1:1 coaching at BeenThereGotOut.com.#HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #FamilyCourt #CoParenting #CustodyEvaluation #NarcissisticAbuse #ParentalAlienation #DivorceAdvice #BeenThereGotOut

Most people believe that once the divorce is final, the chaos finally ends. With a high-conflict, narcissistic, or unpredictable co-parent, the opposite is often true. As they lose day-to-day control, they learn to control you from afar—through the kids, the money, and the legal system. In this honest, practical conversation, UK coach and psychotherapist Louize Yafai joins Lisa Johnson to explain why the abuse can ramp up after separation, and exactly what to do about it.Louize knows this from the inside. After a 16-year marriage, she survived severe financial and post-separation abuse, came close to homelessness twice, and relied on food banks while raising three daughters and litigating on her own. Then she turned her pain into power, trained as a counsellor and psychotherapist, and now helps parents navigate the same storm with their dignity intact.Together they unpack the “Friday Night Bomb”—the email or filing timed to ruin your weekend—and why peace doesn't come from your ex changing. It comes from learning to trust yourself to handle whatever arrives. You'll learn how to stop reacting, when not to respond at all, how to protect your legal fees and your nervous system, and why an impartial guide matters when friends and family keep telling you to “just move on.”✅ WHAT YOU'LL LEARN✅ Why a high-conflict ex often gets worse, not better, after the divorce is final✅ What the “Friday Night Bomb” is—and how to stop it from ruining your time with the kids✅ How to build a “Teflon suit” and respond from a calm, grounded place✅ The in-the-moment “buffer” to use the second a hostile message lands✅ Why you should not respond to every lie—and what judges actually care about✅ How reactivity quietly drives up your legal fees✅ Why being “coached” by AI can backfire badly in a high-conflict case✅ How to know it's time for support—without waiting until burnoutABOUT LOUIZE YAFAILouize Yafai is a divorce, separation, and co-parenting coach with a degree in counselling and psychotherapy. Drawing on her own experience of financial and post-separation abuse—and years of helping men and women face unpredictable, narcissistic co-parents—she specializes in emotional regulation, boundaries, and the practical strategies that help people move through high-conflict divorce with strength and self-respect. She is a contributing author to the #1 best seller “Emotional Alchemy” and to a recent anthology curated with Olympic medalist Fatima Whitbread MBE on overcoming adversity.

Everyone walks into family court assuming the “fair” answer is to split the kids right down the middle. Fifty-fifty. Equal time, equal say, problem solved. But what if that instinct toward fairness is quietly setting your children up for years of stress — and setting you up to lose the very argument you should be winning?In this conversation, Lisa sits down with veteran matrimonial attorney Gus Dimopoulos, who has spent 25 years handling complex, high-conflict divorce and custody cases in Westchester County and New York City. After his article “The Equality Trap” struck a nerve, we asked him to walk us through what he's really seeing in courtrooms — and why the growing assumption that 50/50 is automatically best can be, in his words, disastrous in practice.Gus explains something most parents never learn until it's too late: in New York, there is no legal presumption of shared custody. The law requires a best-interest analysis, and the question of a shared-custody presumption has come before the state legislature for 25 years without ever reaching a vote. Yet judges juggling hundreds of cases are under enormous pressure to settle custody early, and “just split it” starts to feel like the path of least resistance. Understanding that gap — between what the law actually says and what tends to happen in a crowded courtroom — changes how you prepare.We get into the practical reality nobody talks about: fifty-fifty demands a level of coordination, communication, and mutual respect that high-conflict co-parents simply don't have. When you add modern kids' schedules — sports, tutoring, therapy, club teams — an equal-time arrangement can turn every week into a battlefield. Gus also walks through parallel parenting and “spheres of influence” as a more realistic alternative for parents who can't cooperate: you take this domain, I take that one, and we keep out of each other's way so the kids aren't caught in the crossfire. He shares his most important courtroom lesson, too: judges reward the parent who shows up as a calm, prepared problem-solver with a pragmatic list of facts, not the parent who comes in with drama and accusations. If something doesn't work for your kids, you have to be able to show why — with logistics, work policies, train schedules, and evidence — rather than simply insisting the other parent is awful. We also talk about why putting real specifics into your parenting plan beats vague promises to “be cordial,” and why a child should never have to decide which parent to run to after scoring the game-winning goal.This one is essential listening whether you're negotiating a parenting plan, heading into a custody hearing, or trying to understand why the “fair” outcome keeps making your life harder. As always, this isn't legal advice for your specific case — it's strategic education to help you walk in better prepared.

If you have already left an abusive relationship and you're now staring down the family court system, this conversation was made for you. Lisa Johnson of Been There Got Out sits down with Liz Ortenberger, CEO of SafeNest, the largest domestic and sexual violence nonprofit in Las Vegas, Nevada, for a frank discussion about what actually works once you're in front of a judge.Here's the hard truth Liz names out loud: the court will never understand your abuser the way you do. Judges are busy, they're drawn to whoever tells the cleanest, most linear story, and many of them quietly assume that a mother fighting for custody may be exaggerating the abuse to gain an advantage. That isn't fair - but it is the room you're walking into, and pretending otherwise helps no one.So what do you do with that? Liz lays out a survivor's playbook that lines up almost perfectly with what we coach every day. Get it into the record that your children witnessed the abuse, because a child witnessing abuse has the same chemical brain reaction as a child being abused directly. Build your own clear, linear timeline before you ever walk into the courtroom. Think like a chess player rather than a boxer - anticipate your ex's next several moves and head them off, instead of just reacting. And document, document, document: photograph injuries, keep a private journal, tell a trusted friend, and email evidence to yourself so it carries a date stamp the other side can't explain away.She also shares a statistic that every survivor deserves to know: if you were strangled or choked during the relationship, your risk of a later lethal outcome rises dramatically - and that is something you can get documented medically and entered into the court record. Throughout, Liz zooms out to the bigger picture too: the history of the movement, why our systems haven't moved the numbers in 30 years, and what it would take to actually protect the next generation. Practical, honest, and genuinely useful whether you're just starting your case or years deep into it.A SURVIVOR'S COURT PLAYBOOK- How to get a child's exposure to abuse onto the official record - and why it counts- Building the clean, linear timeline judges actually respond to- Anticipating your ex's legal moves like a chess player instead of reacting like a boxer- The custody bias many survivors run into - and how to get ahead of it- A simple, free way to date-stamp your evidence so it can't be dismissed as fabricated- The strangulation statistic that belongs in your medical records and your court fileRESOURCES MENTIONED:SafeNest (Las Vegas): https://www.safenest.orgReach Liz's team: info@safenest.orgLook up your ACE (Adverse Childhood Experiences) score - and take it for your child, tooIf you are in immediate danger, contact your local emergency services. In the U.S., the National Domestic Violence Hotline is available 24/7 at 1-800-799-7233 (SAFE).This conversation is for education and support; it is not legal or mental-health advice. When you're ready, we're here to help you build a strategy that fits your situation.#DomesticViolence #FamilyCourt #CustodyBattle #CoParenting #NarcissisticAbuse #CoerciveControl #DVAwareness #SurvivorSupport

Some of the language we all use in family court every day didn't always exist. The word “co-parenting” is one of them — and the attorney credited with introducing it sits down with us in this conversation. Anne P. Mitchell was one of the first two attorneys in the United States to fight for a child's right to an ongoing relationship with their father after separation, and what she learned across decades in the trenches of high-conflict custody is exactly what targeted parents need to hear today.In this first part of our conversation, Anne walks us through the warning signs that a false allegation of abuse is on its way, the simple steps that protect you before one ever lands, and the co-parent counseling model she helped pioneer — including the surprisingly effective way to get a judge to order it.

Ashish Joshi returns to Been There Got Out — and this time, he's brought a new book and a perspective that may change how you talk about your case forever.If you've been calling your situation a "high-conflict divorce," you may be inadvertently sharing blame you don't deserve. Attorney Ashish Joshi — a domestic violence specialist who focuses on parental alienation and family court litigation — explains why the term "high-conflict" is legally and strategically dangerous for targeted parents, and what the more accurate framework of "family violence" actually means in court.In this conversation, Joshi draws on his brand-new book, Litigating Family Violence, to walk us through the umbrella of behaviors that constitute family violence — from coercive control and emotional abuse to financial abuse, immigration weaponization, and yes, parental alienation. He explains how all of these are interconnected, and why treating them as separate issues misses the point.If you're in family court right now, or trying to understand why nothing seems to be working the way it should, this episode gives you something rare: a practicing trial attorney explaining exactly what courts look for, what language to use, and what actually makes the difference in these cases.IN THIS EPISODE:- Why calling your case "high-conflict" may actually hurt you in family court- What "family violence" means legally — and how it changes the narrative- "Leaving is a process, not an event" — and why courts need to understand this- The difference between parental alienating behaviors (PABs) and parental alienation itself- Resist-refuse dynamics: what they are, and what's really causing them- When to go to court early — and what to ask for instead of pointing fingers- What a proper, enforceable reunification therapy order actually requires- The "running the clock" tactic: how the favored parent uses delay as a weapon- Child voice vs. child choice — and why courts shouldn't let kids decide- Peer-reviewed research: adult children thanked courts for intervening- Enmeshment, parentification, and the cult-like loyalty dynamic- Vicarious trauma and why self-care isn't optional for litigating parentsABOUT ASHISH JOSHI:Ashish Joshi is a practicing family law attorney who specializes at the intersection of domestic violence and parental alienation. He is a sought-after speaker at legal and judicial conferences, including the AFCC (Association of Family and Conciliation Courts), and is the author of two books for legal practitioners and litigants: Litigating Parental Alienation and his newest, Litigating Family Violence. His work bridges the gap between academic research and what actually happens in courtrooms.Ashish Joshi website: www.joshiattorneys.comBook: https://www.amazon.com/Litigating-Family-Violence-Ashish-Joshi/dp/1639057439/#ParentalAlienation #FamilyViolence #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #CoerciveControl #ReunificationTherapy #FamilyCourt #TargetedParent #BeenThereGotOut

What happens when your ex doesn't just badmouth you to the kids, but tells them God is on their side? In this episode, Lisa talks with interfaith minister and trauma-informed therapist Sherri Heller about one of the most under-recognized weapons in a high-conflict divorce: faith itself.When a marriage involving a high-control religious system breaks down, the parent who leaves is rarely treated as someone making a healthy choice. They're cast as the one who “deviated,” the one who is “morally depraved,” the one the children must be protected from. Sherri explains exactly how this plays out as parental alienation and why family courts so often miss it, pushing for reconciliation “at any cost” while the smear campaign hides in plain sight behind a veneer of virtue.If you've heard your own child repeat phrases that don't sound like them, like one parent in this episode, whose child said she should be talking to “good Christians, not bad divorced people,” you've seen what Sherri calls borrowed scenarios and abuse by proxy: the child used as a vessel to carry the alienating parent's message. She and Lisa talk through what to actually do in that moment, why opposing the indoctrination head-on backfires, and how to find the “middle ground” and the “way in” instead.You'll also hear Sherri's candid take on a hard truth we teach our own clients: in a system that won't recognize this abuse, you have to learn to play the game. Stay tactical. Gray rock. Build leverage so you're not completely cut off from your child, and plant seeds quietly (through nature, literature, science, and critical thinking) that give your kids room to find their own autonomy as they grow, especially in adolescence when the contradictions start to surface.Sherri and Lisa also talk about where to put your energy instead of into endless arguments. At Been There Got Out we teach our clients to look for the “universal agreements,” the handful of things both parents claim to want, like a child who is healthy, happy, and well cared for. Anchoring your communication there keeps you on the high ground, gives a watching judge a clear contrast between your behavior and your ex's, and quietly removes the conflict your ex is fishing for. Sherri's clinical framing of why opposition feeds the narcissist lines up exactly with the strategic communication we coach every day.There's also real hope in this episode. Sherri reminds protective parents that the very contradictions an alienating parent creates tend to surface on their own, especially in adolescence, when the pressure of living inside someone else's story starts to produce its own symptoms. The seeds you plant now, quietly and consistently, are often what your child reaches for later when they begin to question. Your steadiness is the long game.This is essential viewing if you're navigating custody where religion, a controlling community, or a “messianic” ex is part of the picture. It pairs directly with our book “When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You” and our work on strategic communication.About our guest: Sherri Heller is an interfaith minister and trauma-informed therapist specializing in narcissistic abuse and complex trauma recovery, and a survivor herself.⏱ CHAPTERS / TIMESTAMPS00:00 Welcome — a topic we rarely cover00:52 What is spiritual & religious abuse?02:12 Meet Sherri Heller: minister & trauma-informed therapist03:40 Common misconceptions (it's not just isolated sects)06:02 How love bombing opens the door08:17 When the community sanctions the abuse09:44 A survivor robbed of her future11:23 Rigid rules: controlled marriages & forced isolation13:31 Narrowing it to the family system14:17 Red flags: cognitive dissonance & the absence of humility17:47 Covert vs. overt: ontological gaslighting18:48 Triangulating with the divine & prosocial camouflage20:34 Grooming children into martyrs24:49 Divorce, leaving the faith & parental alienation25:51 Learning to “play the game” in family court28:49 Borrowed scenarios & abuse by proxy29:36 Finding the middle ground with an alienated child31:34 When (and how) to tell kids a parent is mentally ill33:32 Getting out: reclaiming yourself35:27 Gray rocking, planting seeds & the adolescent awakening37:21 Where to find Sherri Heller37:53 Closing thoughtsWHO WE ARE: Been There Got Out helps protective parents survive high-conflict divorce, custody battles, and parental alienation. Lisa Johnson and Chris Barry teach the strategy that attorneys often don't — how to communicate, document, and present your case while protecting your relationship with your kids. We've been there. We got out. We'll help you do the same.→ Struggling with alienation right now? Book a free 30-minute discovery call: https://btgo.as.me/?appointmentType=24686877→ Get the book “When Your Ex Turns the Kids Against You”: https://www.amazon.com/Been-There-Got-Out-Against/dp/1967674183/Find Sherri Heller: https://sheritherapist.com/index.html#ParentalAlienation #ReligiousAbuse #HighConflictDivorce #CustodyBattle #NarcissisticAbuse #CoerciveControl #ProtectiveParent #CoParenting #BeenThereGotOut

If you've been living in a high-conflict divorce or custody battle, you probably know that feeling all too well — the exhaustion that never quite leaves, the hypervigilance, the sense that your nervous system has forgotten how to relax. And for many people in these situations, a glass of wine at the end of the day has quietly become two, or three, or something stronger. Not because of weakness. Because of science.In this episode, Lisa sits down with Dr. Christal Badour, a licensed clinical psychologist and professor at the University of Kentucky, where she runs a research lab focused on trauma recovery and the intersection of PTSD and substance use disorders. Dr. Badour's work is dedicated to understanding why trauma and substance use co-occur so frequently — and more importantly, how to help people break that cycle.What you'll learn in this conversation will likely change the way you see yourself.

Standard Christian advice often misses the mark when recovering from a narcissistic divorce. Here is a better path forward. Many people find that conventional wisdom provided by church communities fails to address the unique complexities of narcissistic abuse. If you are struggling to move past the damage caused by a toxic marriage, you need a different framework. This discussion explains why typical recovery steps fall short and introduces a specific method for processing deep-seated wounds. By applying this targeted approach to your mental health after divorce, you can finally start to separate your identity from the trauma. The goal is to move past the confusion and build a stable foundation for your future. To assist with this, I have included a practical emotional healing guide at the end of the session, providing actionable steps to help you regain your footing. Subscribe for weekly narcissist divorce recovery breakdowns, and comment below with the biggest obstacle you face in your healing journey.   https://www.davideclarkephd.com/

You know that feeling. Your phone buzzes. You see their name. And before you can even read the message, your heart is racing, your chest tightens, and you can barely think straight.You're not overreacting. You're not weak. Your brain has been literally wired by trauma to respond to that notification as if your life is in danger — because for a long time, it was.In this episode, Lisa sits down with Max Weigand, a positive psychologist from Germany and the creator of Psychosomatic Intelligence — a method that brings together the science of the mind, subconscious beliefs, and nervous system mastery to help people who are stuck in chronic fight-or-flight finally break free.If you're navigating high-conflict divorce, shared custody with a narcissistic ex, or family court proceedings, what Max shares in this conversation isn't just inspiring — it's immediately practical. Because the same nervous system that's been hijacked by years of abuse is the one you're being asked to perform with in court, in mediation, and in every co-parenting communication you send.Here's what makes this conversation so powerful for where you are right now:✅ Why negative emotions literally shut down your prefrontal cortex — the part of your brain responsible for logic, reasoning, and staying calm on the witness stand✅ The reason your brain can't tell the difference between a real threat and a text message from your ex — and why that's not a flaw, it's a survival feature you can learn to override✅ What Max calls your 'emotional home' — the default emotional state you keep returning to — and how to identify whether yours is working for you or against you✅ The 'reality filter' concept and why people stuck in victimhood aren't being dramatic — their brains are literally filtering out evidence of anything good✅ Simple, free morning practices (journaling, gratitude, visualization, mindful tea) that Max says can rewire the brain's neural pathways — especially if used during the critical theta window right after waking✅ The famous 'golden crocodile' demonstration that shows, in real-time, why trying NOT to think about something backfires every time — and what to do instead✅ Max's take on forgiveness — not as something you do for your ex, but as the practice of learning to stop swallowing the poisonLisa makes a point in this conversation that will resonate with so many of you: the moment you hear a ding from your phone that might be a message from your abusive ex is the perfect example of the brain treating an imagined threat as a physical danger. Years after separation, the neurology of abuse is still running in the background. Max explains not just why that happens, but what to actually do about it.This is one of those conversations that feels equally useful whether you're deep in the legal battle right now or years out and still feeling the weight of it. The tools work at any stage — and they work faster if you're starting from a harder place.⏱ TIMESTAMPS00:00 — Introduction: Max's core philosophy — the further down you are, the more potential you have02:09 — Why mastering the nervous system matters more than just changing your mindset04:41 — Max introduces himself and Psychosomatic Intelligence05:43 — How emotional dysregulation destroys decision-making — the prefrontal cortex goes offline09:33 — Why your brain can't tell the difference between a real threat and a vivid memory or imagination10:33 — The 'notification ding' effect: your body's panic response to a text from your ex12:00 — Neural pathways: why the fear response gets stronger every time you repeat the pattern12:27 — What is Psychosomatic Intelligence? The three-system alignment model13:58 — Step 1: Awareness — identifying your 'emotional home'16:33 — The mind-body feedback loop: how physical tension amplifies emotional states17:01 — Projecting your body state onto other people — why a bad night's sleep creates conflict17:25 — 'Living in victimhood': how the brain's reality filter traps you in suffering19:14 — The reticular activating system: your brain's filter and how to reset it20:33 — Practical tool: the 'what's going right' morning question21:10 — Lisa's recommendation: 10 minutes of fun every day to balance stress hormones21:20 — Abraham Lincoln and the sharp axe: why you can't afford NOT to pause23:05 — Lisa shares her morning journaling practice and how it changed her days24:00 — The theta window: why morning and evening are the most powerful times to rewire your brain25:33 — The neuroplasticity moment: why it doesn't matter if you journal, visualize, or just drink tea26:40 — The 'golden crocodile' live demonstration: why 'don't think about it' never works27:38 — The pink fluffy unicorn: replace, don't resist — the neuroscience of positive focus29:01 — Forgiveness: not about the other person — about choosing not to swallow the poison29:25 — Lisa on 'apathy as freedom' and the goal of emotional peace29:44 — Nikos Kazantzakis quote: 'I want nothing. I fear nothing. I am free.'30:13 — Wrap-up and how to find Max

If you've been told that mediation is impossible when you're dealing with a high-conflict ex—or that it's never safe when there's been domestic violence—this conversation with New York family law attorney Ian Steinberg is going to challenge that assumption.Ian is a matrimonial attorney with Burkman Botker Newman & Shane, a 25-attorney firm based in Manhattan with offices in Westchester and Long Island. He joins Lisa Johnson of Been There Got Out for his second appearance on the show, and this time the focus is entirely on mediation—what it is, what it isn't, and how to navigate it when your ex has a history of coercive control, manipulation, or abuse.The family court system is broken. Ian doesn't sugarcoat that. The system wasn't designed to handle what targeted parents deal with every day, and being forced into litigation often just gives an abusive ex another arena to exert power.That's why understanding your alternatives—including the different forms of mediation—matters so much.In this episode, Ian breaks down a distinction that most people don't know exists: Capital M Mediation versus lowercase m mediation.Capital M is the classic format—just you, your ex, and a neutral third party working toward agreement. Lowercase m covers a broader range of attorney-assisted, structured alternatives that can be more appropriate when power imbalances are a serious concern.He also introduces something Lisa and Chris have seen work with their own clients: the use of retired family court judges as mediators.These aren't people with formal mediation authority—but they bring decades of experience sitting on the bench, and sometimes that gravitas is exactly what it takes to get a controlling ex to actually listen and move.If you are a domestic violence survivor wondering whether mediation is even an option for you, Ian's answer is: sometimes yes, if the right guardrails are in place. He's clear about when it shouldn't happen—when the power dynamic is so extreme that you simply can't withstand it, or when the conflict is too fresh to be productive. But he also explains the tools that can make it safer, including virtual Zoom-based shuttle negotiation, where the parties never have to share a screen or a room.Before you walk into any mediation session, Ian says three things matter most: talk to your attorney beforehand, work with your coach to manage your emotions and know your triggers, and make a clear list of your asks. And remember—nothing is final until you put pen to paper. You are allowed to say, “This sounds interesting. Let me think about it and speak to my attorney.” That is not weakness. That is informed consent.The cost savings of resolving even some issues through mediation can be staggering. Every issue you settle is one that doesn't have to be litigated. Going from ten contested issues to two is real progress—and it also signals to the court that you've made a genuine effort to cooperate, which matters.Whether mediation is right for you depends on your specific situation. That's why working with coaches who understand high-conflict dynamics—and who can help you prepare strategically—is so valuable. Lisa and Chris offer a free 30-minute discovery call where they can help you assess your situation and figure out the right next steps.➡️ Book your free call: https://beentheregotout.com/➡️ Follow us on Instagram: @been_there_got_outConnect with Ian Steinberg: https://www.berkbot.com/attorneys/ian-steinberg/

If you've ever found yourself paralyzed by the fear that your ex is slowly turning your children against you and there's nothing you can do about it, this conversation is for you.In this episode of Been There Got Out, Lisa Johnson sits down with Dr. Alicia del Prado, a licensed counseling psychologist based in the San Francisco Bay Area, to talk about one of the most painful experiences a parent can go through: parental alienation. But rather than focusing only on what's happening, Dr. del Prado brings her clinical expertise to what you can actually do — specific, grounded strategies to prevent alienation from taking hold, minimize its impact when it has already started, and stay psychologically intact through all of it.One of the most important things she says: fear is a filter. When we're operating from that deep, primal terror of losing our kids, we make decisions that can actually make things worse — not because we're bad parents, but because our nervous system is in survival mode. Understanding that is the first step toward changing it.WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE:✅ What parental alienation actually is — and why it affects an estimated 22 million divorced and separated parents in the US and Canada alone✅ Why feeling hopeless about parental alienation is understandable — and what to focus on instead✅ How fear acts as a "filter" that distorts your decisions and what to do about it without suppressing your emotions✅ The most common misconceptions people have about alienation — both from inside the situation and from the outside✅ How to support a friend or family member going through parental alienation without saying the wrong thing✅ How to use your child's love language to stay connected even when they're pushing you away✅ What to do when your child screams at you, ignores you, or says they hate you✅ The micro goals framework: how to keep showing up consistently even when you see no results✅ Why children in these situations usually do come back — and what gives them the courage toTIMESTAMPS:00:00 — Introduction: Why we're revisiting this conversation (audio issues from previous recording)01:10 — What parental alienation actually is: a definition from a clinical psychologist02:30 — The 22 million statistic: how widespread parental alienation really is03:15 — Dr. del Prado's personal background and why this topic is close to her heart04:30 — "I feel like it's destined" — addressing the hopelessness alienated parents feel06:00 — Fear is a filter: how trauma responses hijack parenting decisions in high-conflict situations08:15 — Misconceptions about parental alienation from the inside: why catastrophizing makes it worse10:00 — Misconceptions from the outside: what friends and family get wrong and how to ask for support12:30 — The Constructive Conversations model (with Dr. Anastasia Kim) for difficult dialogue14:15 — Using love languages with alienated children: quality time, words of affirmation, gift giving, touch17:00 — When your child doesn't respond to your love language efforts: the power of repetition18:30 — Reliability and consistency: why attachment is built over time, not in a single reunion20:00 — When children are openly hostile: what to do in the moment when your child screams at you22:45 — Self-regulation tools for targeted parents (including Marsha Linehan's distress tolerance skills)24:30 — Setting limits with your child during a hostile encounter without escalating26:00 — Micro goals: why big reunion fantasies set you up to fail — and what works instead28:30 — Making micro goals about your behavior, not your child's response30:15 — Do alienated children come back? What the statistics actually show31:30 — How to find Dr. del Prado and her practiceABOUT DR. ALICIA DEL PRADO:Dr. Alicia del Prado is a licensed counseling psychologist and the founder of a group practice in the San Francisco Bay Area. Her clinical work spans children, adults, families, and couples navigating relationship challenges, depression, anxiety, and trauma. Dr. del Prado brings both professional expertise and personal perspective to the topic of parental alienation — as a child of divorced parents herself, she understands both the systemic challenges families face and the emotional complexity children carry through these transitions. She is co-developer (with Dr. Anastasia Kim) of the Constructive Conversations model, a step-by-step approach to having difficult but necessary dialogues with people we care about.CONNECT WITH DR. DEL PRADO on Instagram: @DoctorDelPrado & @DelPradoCounseling

If you've been ordered into parenting coordination, or you're wondering whether a parenting coordinator could help your high-conflict custody case, this conversation is for you.Lisa sits down with Nicole Sodoma, a family law attorney with 26 years of experience, founding partner of Sodoma Law (seven locations across the Carolinas), and a practicing parenting coordinator since 2005. What makes Nicole's perspective uniquely powerful is that she's not just an expert — she's a targeted parent who has personally worked with three different parenting coordinators since her own separation in 2019. She knows this process from every angle.Together, they break down what a parenting coordinator actually does, who gets one (and why), what the most common and costly mistakes parents make are, and the practical communication and documentation strategies that can help you stop making them — starting today.Whether your parenting coordinator seems to be favoring your ex, you're confused about what decisions they can and can't make, or you're just trying to understand how to use this process strategically, Nicole gives you a clear, honest roadmap.

What does a Guardian Ad Litem really think when a 10-year-old says they want 50/50 custody?Crystal Wright has heard it hundreds of times — and she can tell instantly when a child has been coached. As a family law attorney AND a working GAL in Atlanta, Georgia, Crystal is one of the rare practitioners who has seen the custody system from every angle: as the attorney fighting for clients, as the neutral investigator protecting children, and as the professional who has had exactly one parent incarcerated for defying her court orders.In this conversation, Crystal joins Lisa Johnson to unpack one of the most contentious questions in family law: when should a child's voice be allowed to decide their custody arrangement — and when should it be completely disregarded?The answer, Crystal says, has nothing to do with how articulate or advanced your child is. It has everything to do with whether the language they're using sounds like an actual child — or like someone's lawyer.What You'll Learn in This Episode:✅ How GALs instantly detect when a child has been coached — and what specific language is a dead giveaway✅ Why "I want 50/50 custody" coming from a 10-year-old should raise immediate red flags✅ What the 'borrowed scenarios' phenomenon looks like in a real investigation✅ How Crystal visits kids at their schools — without telling the parents — and why she always gets new information✅ The real impact on children when they're put in the middle: clinical depression, self-harm, 17-year-olds calling their GAL crying at 10pm✅ At what ages (11 and 14 in Georgia) a child's preference becomes legally relevant — and why that still doesn't mean they get to choose✅ The non-negotiable case for reunification therapy — and what Crystal does to parents who try to block it✅ How to find a qualified GAL and what to look for in a mental health expert for an older, refusing child✅ What to do when your child won't see you: Crystal's direct advice to rejected parents⏱️ Timestamps:00:00 — Introduction: How Lisa and Crystal met at the Bridging the Gap conference in London01:45 — How a GAL tells the difference: coached child vs. genuine preference04:30 — Crystal's background: family law attorney, boutique firm in Atlanta, and why she loves GAL work06:00 — Advanced children vs. coached children: why intelligence isn't the issue08:15 — "I want 50/50" — why that phrase signals coaching immediately10:00 — Age and preference in Georgia: the affidavit of election at 11, determinative weight at 1413:30 — Why Crystal stopped having children sign affidavits of election15:45 — The 17-year-old: even at near-adulthood, best interest analysis still controls18:00 — Reaction to New Jersey's ruling: what does it mean for children's long-term wellbeing?21:00 — Why Crystal visits children at their schools — without telling parents — and what she learns23:30 — Children and truth-telling: parroting, fawning, and protecting a parent26:00 — Loyalty conflicts: the real emotional impact on children stuck in the middle29:00 — Clinical depression, self-harm, and older kids calling Crystal crying at 10pm32:00 — Older children refusing contact: how to make the case for intervention to the court35:00 — Reunification therapy: Crystal has never been denied an order for it — and here's why38:30 — What happens to parents who block reunification therapy: contempt motions and incarceration41:00 — What kind of expert witness to bring in for an older refusing child43:30 — False allegations and fake documents: how they're handled in investigation46:00 — How to find a good GAL and what qualifications actually matter48:30 — How to prepare your child for a GAL interview (and what NOT to say)51:00 — Advice for rejected parents: don't give up, keep reaching out, send birthday gifts54:00 — Memory, photographs, and why fighting for a child who doesn't want you right now still matters56:30 — How to find Crystal Wright and closing remarks

He hadn't heard from one of his four daughters in four years. Then she reached out. And the first thing she said changed everything.Jon McKenzie, founder of @malevictimsoffemalenarcissists (IG) and a returning BTGO guest, joins Lisa to share something that happened just two weeks before this recording: his adult daughter reached out after four years of complete silence, asked to rebuild their relationship, and opened with the words every alienated parent needs to hear: "I'm very sorry for the words I said. My words were very hurtful and disrespectful."If you've been told to "just wait," or you're wondering whether your adult children will ever come back, this conversation is the living proof that they can. And it gives you a philosophy and a framework for surviving the wait.IN THIS CONVERSATION:The two types of parental alienation — legally imposed separation vs. the quiet, psychological erosion that's often more devastatingWhy Jon chose not to divorce until his kids were out of high school — and whether, looking back, that was the right callThe prodigal son framework: how Jon made peace with not chasing his children — and what 'waiting with open arms' actually costs a parent emotionallyWhat his daughter said the moment she reached out — and why Jon didn't pull his punches in their first conversationHow reconciliation with one adult child is opening a possible door with a second — while a third may be permanently enmeshed with their motherWhy Jon refused to badmouth his ex to his children — even after years of alienation — and why he believes that was the single most important thing he didWhat he says to the client who says: 'If one more person tells me the kids will just figure it out, I'm going to lose my mind'GUEST INFO:Jon McKenzieMale Victims of Female Narcissistshttps://malevictimsoffemalenarcissists.comJon's Instagram: @malevictimsoffemalenarcissists

Facing a negotiation with your high-conflict ex can feel like showing up to a battle already defeated — especially when they have more money, more confidence, or a better attorney. But corporate negotiation expert Lynn Price says the power imbalance you're feeling may be less real than you think. What IS real is whether you make the ask.Lynn spent 25 years as in-house corporate counsel and completed over 11,000 negotiations. In this conversation with Lisa Johnson, she breaks down her Three Rs Framework — Ready, Relatable, and Reasonable — and explains exactly how to apply it when you're co-parenting with someone determined to make your life miserable.In this episode, you'll learn:- The one mindset shift that lets you make the ask even when you feel powerless- How to use the 'have to haves / helpful haves / hopeful haves' system to walk into mediation with a clear, strategic game plan- Why you must stop talking after you make a request — and how to handle the silence- The acting technique that protects your most important priorities (your ex will never see it coming)- How to build enough rapport with a difficult person to actually move the negotiation forward- A general rule from a retired army general that will keep you out of trouble in every difficult conversation- Why practicing out loud — even to your mirror or your dog — can change how you show up in mediation- How to use AI to prepare for your next difficult conversation with your co-parentLisa and Lynn also explore the difference between negotiation and mediation, the psychology of letting the other side 'win' things that don't actually matter, and why knowing your 'walk-away' point before you sit down is one of the most powerful moves you can make.This isn't just theory — Lynn spent nearly 14 years in the construction industry, where her company had no leverage, going up against huge players and still getting what they needed. Her approach works on everyone from Fortune 500 executives to toxic co-parents. And it can work for you.If you're heading into custody mediation, a co-parenting negotiation, or just trying to get your ex to switch a weekend, this conversation will change how you approach it.About Lynn Price:Lynn Price is a negotiation speaker, trainer, and attorney. She spent over 25 years as in-house corporate counsel, completing more than 11,000 negotiations.Website: lynnpriceconsulting.comBook: 'Negotiate It!' on Amazon

What does a family court judge actually think when you walk through those courtroom doors?If you have ever walked out of a hearing asking "why did the judge do THAT?" — this conversation is for you.Peggy Walsh spent 18 years as a family court judge — after first building her career representing parents, caregivers, and children as a family law attorney. Then she took off her robe. Not because she stopped caring, but because she believed that the people who love a child should be the ones making decisions for that child — not a stranger, however well-intentioned, in a black robe.Today, Peggy works as a co-parenting coach, helping parents stay out of court altogether — or, when court is unavoidable, understand exactly what to expect and how to show up effectively.In this conversation, Lisa and Peggy go deep on what family court actually looks like from the inside — and what most attorneys never tell their clients before they walk into that hearing.WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS INTERVIEW:✅ Why judges assume BOTH parents are high conflict — and how that shapes everything they observe✅ What judges really notice about demeanor (and why the person blurting things out in court isn't necessarily the problem outside of court)✅ The one question you should always ask your attorney before your first court appearance — and why most attorneys forget to answer it✅ What "forced resolution" vs. "compromised resolution" actually means — and why Peggy always preferred to help parents reach their own agreements✅ The specific things only you know about your family that no judge ever could — and why that makes negotiated parenting plans almost always better✅ What status conferences are, why Peggy loved using them, and how they can reduce conflict over time✅ Why appearing to "want it all your way" in front of a judge rarely ends well — and what to do instead✅ How to think about co-parenting communication as modeling behavior for your children — not just logistics management✅ Why your child hears your tone of voice even when they are upstairs and cannot hear your words✅ What it looks like to stop making your ex the "star of your show" — and why that shift changes everythingTHIS INTERVIEW IS ESSENTIAL IF YOU:- Are going to court and do not know what to expect- Are frustrated by a custody decision you do not understand- Are trying to build a parenting plan and wondering whether to negotiate or let the judge decide- Keep getting pulled back to court by a high-conflict co-parent- Want to understand what judges actually value — not what TV court dramas portray- Are ready to shift from reactive victim to proactive problem-solver in your caseABOUT PEGGY WALSH:Peggy Walsh is a retired family court judge who served for 18 years, primarily handling divorce and family law matters. Prior to her time on the bench, she represented parents, caregivers, and children as a family law attorney. She is now a co-parenting coach, helping parents navigate high-conflict situations, create workable parenting plans, and stay out of court whenever possible.Connect with Peggy Walsh: https://peggywalsh.com/

Are you divorcing a narcissist? Even if the person isn't a true narcissist (meaning he/she has been diagnosed), people getting divorced can show narcissistic tendencies, given the stressful, scary situation. My guest in this episode is divorce attorney and partner, Renee Read, who talks about divorcing a narcissist from the legal perspective. Renee offers some great tips to help minimize costs and get the best possible outcome.

If you have a court date coming up, a difficult phone call with your ex on the calendar, or you're just sick and tired of going blank exactly when you need to be sharp, this conversation is for you.Lisa sits down with Annie Brook, a body-centered somatic psychologist who has trained therapists for decades and spent time in courtrooms testifying for children. Annie brings something genuinely different to this conversation: not just the why behind the freeze, the anger, and the exhaustion you've been feeling, but practical, body-based tools you can use covertly, right now, even with a judge watching.In this episode, Annie explains:- Why hopelessness after a toxic relationship is neurological, not a character flaw- How your birth experience and earliest attachment moments may have shaped the "blind spots" your ex exploited- The science behind why you freeze when you're attacked in conversation or in court, and how to break it- Four covert grounding techniques you can use during a custody hearing without anyone knowing- The "hula hoop" exercise that rebuilds your sense of personal space and power- What "middle tone" is and why it's the secret to staying credible and relational under pressure- How self-attack thinking is not just emotionally exhausting — it may be affecting your physical healthAnnie Brook's website: https://www.anniebrook.com#NarcissisticAbuse #NervousSystemHealing #SomaticTherapy #FamilyCourt #HighConflictDivorce #ParentalAlienation #TraumaHealing #CoParenting #CustodyBattle #AnnieBrook #BeenThereGotOut 

Finding the right therapist for your child during a high-conflict divorce is one of the most important and misunderstood decisions you'll make.Most parents want immediate results. They want their child to sit down in session one and start processing everything that's been happening at home. But experienced art therapist Ahimsa Luciano has seen this expectation backfire again and again, and she has a more effective approach to share.In this conversation, Ahimsa breaks down what effective therapy for children in high-conflict situations actually looks like, why it takes longer than parents expect, and why that's not a bad thing. She explains how to match your child's personality to a therapeutic style, what to say when the other parent has told your child therapy means something is wrong with them, and exactly why the therapist can't be your source of custody intel, even when you desperately want updates.WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE:- Why AI will never replace a human therapist, and what the 7-38-55 communication rule reveals about what's really missing- What makes an experienced intake truly different and why this first step is the most important one- How to give a resistant child space to open up, even when their world feels like it's in chaos- Why it can take months (or longer) before a child talks, and why that's not failure- How to handle a child who's been told therapy means they're damaged - a trauma-informed response that actually works- The truth about "parentification" in high-conflict families and its long-term impact on relationships and boundaries- Why children tell each parent something different and why that doesn't mean anyone is lying- What 'your child is fine with both parents' in an evaluation actually means, and why it's not the betrayal it feels like- Why custody exchanges are a major anxiety trigger for children and the specific harm of using kids as tools at handoffs- Questions to ask when choosing a therapist for your child including how to match personality type to therapeutic style- Why your child's therapy space must be private and what the therapist will and won't share with youABOUT AHIMSA LUCIANO:Ahimsa Luciano is an art therapist licensed in New York State and the co-founder and co-owner of Pleasantville Wellness Group, a multidisciplinary therapy practice in Pleasantville, NY serving children through adults, couples, and families. She began her career at a domestic violence and sexual assault agency as the children's therapist — an experience that gave her deep roots in working with kids navigating high-conflict separations, divorce, and trauma. Pleasantville Wellness Group offers a broad range of therapeutic modalities including art therapy, play therapy, and individual and group services, and is currently in-network with NYSHIP, United Healthcare, and Oxford for New York State clients. Some therapists in the practice are also licensed in additional states.  https://www.pleasantvillewellnessgroup.com/home#highconflictdivorce #childtherapy #parentalalienation #coparenting #arttherapy #custodybattle #parentification #divorceandkids #traumainformedparenting #beentheregotout #kidsanddivorce #therapyforchildren

If your child just told you something terrible — or if you're afraid they're trying to — this conversation is for you.Lisa sits down with Julia Hochstadt, a licensed clinical social worker specializing in trauma, childhood sexual abuse, sexual assault, and domestic violence. Julia works with adolescents (15+) and adults, including many parents navigating high-conflict custody situations where their children may be in danger. She also testifies as an expert witness in DV and intimate partner violence cases.This interview was recorded during Sexual Assault Awareness Month — but Julia's guidance is something every protective parent needs to hear, no matter what month it is.In this conversation, you'll hear:→ The #1 thing Julia urges parents to do immediately when a child discloses abuse — and the exact words to say→ Why disclosures can sound unbelievable — and why that doesn't mean they're not true→ How years of gaslighting from an abusive partner erode your ability to trust your own instincts (and what to do about it)→ The behavioral signs that should prompt a protective parent to lean in — not wait and watch→ A practical, age-appropriate framework for building a child's safety plan — including how to plan for different times of day, different scenarios, and changing circumstances→ Why Julia compares child safety planning to how the fire department talks about home fire safety — and why you should revisit it every time life transitions happen→ What research says about the #1 protective factor for a child whose abuse was not properly addressed by the legal system→ How to comfort a terrified child when you have to send them on a court-ordered exchange you know is unsafeLisa also shares a real situation she encountered that same morning: a mother whose child disclosed the worst kind of abuse, survived two investigations that were not acted upon, and is now being forced into a form of reunification therapy that's making things dramatically worse. Julia's guidance for this mother, and for the many parents in this community who are living this nightmare, is both clinically grounded and deeply human.ABOUT JULIA HOCHSTADT, LCSWJulia is a licensed clinical social worker licensed to practice in New York and New Jersey. She specializes in primary and secondary survivors of childhood sexual abuse, sexual assault, and domestic violence. She does training, education, and outreach nationally, and testifies as an expert witness in DV and IPV cases. She is also available for consultation to individuals and clinicians nationwide.Website: https://therapywithjulia.com#ChildAbuse #ChildSafety #ParentalAlienation #HighConflictDivorce #ProtectiveParent #DomesticViolence #SafetyPlanning #ChildDisclosure #SexualAssaultAwarenessMonth #CustodyBattle #CoParenting #TraumaTherapist #BeenThereGotOut

Even after divorcing a narcissist, many face judgment from vindictive Christians who seek to instill guilt and confusion. This video exposes how these individuals, often referred to as "Christian Pharisees," perpetuate "five Christian lies" to keep you feeling stuck and miserable. We explore the intersection of christianity and narcissistic abuse, offering guidance on navigating these challenges for your divorce recovery.   Register for my upcoming webinar on June 8th, 2026. here. https://www.davideclarkephd.com/complete-healing-after-divorcing-a-narcissist

If you've ever sat in a courtroom waiting for a judge to address what your ex is doing... and walked out with nothing... AGAIN, you already know this truth in your bones: justice delayed is justice denied.Criminal defense attorney, legal analyst, and law professor James Porfido has spent more than 35 years watching the American legal system from every angle: as a prosecutor in the Morris County Prosecutor's Office, as a certified criminal trial attorney, and as a defense attorney for people caught in a system that often seemed designed to work against them. His book, Unequal Justice, is a frank accounting of what he witnessed.In this conversation with Lisa, James brings that rare "both sides of the courtroom" perspective to the world of high-conflict divorce and custody — and what he sees mirrors exactly what our community lives every day.In this episode, you'll learn:- Why family court cases drag on for months and years, and why judges often feel they have no choice- How a toxic ex uses court delays strategically to wear you down, separate you from your children, and drain your finances- What "parental alienation" looks like through the eyes of a criminal attorney who has represented falsely accused parents- How coached child testimony works and what it means for your case- The single most important thing to look for when hiring an attorney (hint: it's not their fees)- Why knowing the "lay of the land" in your local court system is as important as knowing the law- How court staff relationships can quietly determine whether your case moves forward... or stalls- James's framework for what questions to ask when interviewing a potential attorneyAbout James Porfido James Porfido is a New Jersey-based attorney with over 35 years of experience as both a prosecutor and criminal defense attorney. He is a Certified Criminal Trial Attorney, certified by the Supreme Court of New Jersey. He is currently of counsel at a 65-attorney New Jersey firm, an adjunct law professor teaching advocacy and persuasion at Seattle Law School, and a legal analyst who has provided commentary on high-profile cases including OJ Simpson, the Menendez brothers, and Scott Peterson. His book, Unequal Justice, is available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble.#HighConflictDivorce #FamilyCourt #ParentalAlienation #JusticeDelayed #CustodyBattle #FalseAllegations #DomesticViolence #CoerciveControl #BeenThereGotOut #UnequalJustice 

You pick your child up from their other parent's, and within minutes, the screaming starts. Maybe they're throwing things. Maybe they're kicking you. Maybe they're saying things you never imagined hearing from your own kid's mouth - things that sound frighteningly like your ex.You're doing everything you can think of. Talking. Reasoning. Setting consequences. Nothing works. And you're starting to wonder if your child is broken... or if you are.You're not. And neither is your child.In this episode, we welcome back Tosha Schore, founder of Parenting Boys Peacefully and co-author of the book "Listen: 5 Simple Tools to Meet Your Everyday Parenting Challenges." Tosha has been a trusted voice in the BTGO community for years, and this conversation may be the most important thing she's shared with us.Here's what she wants you to understand: when your child comes home from the other household and erupts, that behavior is almost never about you. Their limbic system, the emotional brain, has been flooded by stress, fear, and unpredictability. Their prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain responsible for reasoning, self-regulation, and respect, is offline. You can't talk them out of it. You can't punish them out of it. And time-outs make it worse.What you can do - what actually works - is exactly what Tosha walks us through in this conversation.In this episode, you'll learn:→ Why children in high-conflict divorce situations are wired for aggression, and why it's a fear response, not a character flaw→ The one thing you should do first when your child is escalating (hint: it's not talking)→ Why consequences and time-outs create the exact opposite of what you need in these moments→ The stay-listening technique and why staying quiet and present is the most powerful tool you have→ What to say (and what NOT to say) when your child is in a rage spiral→ The note-under-the-door strategy that has helped hundreds of parents reconnect with an escalating child→ The surprising reason why your child's laughter after hurting you doesn't mean they don't care→ How to use "special time" to rebuild connection — and why it creates a window into your child's inner world when nothing else will→ The difference between a stress-driven outburst and a chronic pattern that needs more support→ Why the fastest way to earn respect from your dysregulated child is to stop demanding it in that momentTosha also shares what she calls "good enough parenting shape," and why what you need most before your child gets home is to take care of yourself first, so you can show up fully for them.If your child seems to become a different person after exchanges - angrier, crueler, more out of control - you need to hear this conversation. And if you've ever felt your ex's voice coming out of your child's mouth while they're screaming at you, that's not your imagination. Tosha has words for that too.

Divorcing a narcissistic or high-conflict partner is one of the most emotionally and strategically complex experiences you can face. In this episode of We Chat Divorce, we're joined by high-conflict divorce coach, mediator, and author Victoria McCooey, who shares what it really looks like to navigate divorce when manipulation, control, and emotional abuse are part of the dynamic. Victoria brings both professional expertise and lived experience—offering clear, grounded insight into how narcissistic behavior shows up in divorce, why so many people feel stuck or confused, and what it actually takes to protect yourself and move forward. If you've ever felt like you're questioning your reality, being pulled in multiple directions, or struggling to make clear decisions—this conversation will help you understand why—and what to do next. What You'll Learn: What defines a narcissistic or high-conflict partner in divorce Why many people don't recognize abuse until they're deep in it How manipulation and control show up during the divorce process The emotional and psychological impact of gaslighting Why clarity—not reaction—is your greatest asset in high-conflict divorce How to begin reclaiming your voice, confidence, and decision-making power You don't need to have everything figured out—you need clarity. And clarity starts with understanding what you're dealing with. At My Divorce Solution, we see this every day—when emotions are high and information is low, decisions become reactive. That's why financial clarity is critical, especially in high-conflict situations. When you understand your full financial picture, you regain control of your decisions—not just your circumstances. Resources & Next Steps: Take the Free Divorce Financial Assessment Learn about the MDS Financial Portrait™ Join the MDS Community for expert guidance and support Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If seeing your ex, even from across a parking lot, sends your body into overdrive, you're not overreacting. You're experiencing a trauma response. And it has a name.In this episode, Lisa sits down with Dr. Andrea DePetris, a clinical psychologist at Yale School of Medicine and private practice therapist, for a conversation that will genuinely change how you understand yourself in these moments.We start with something that gets thrown around a lot - the word "trigger" - and Dr. DePetris explains precisely what it means in a trauma context: a stimulus that activates your trauma memory network and makes your brain and body feel like the danger is happening right now. Not overreaction. Biology.From there, we dig into the window of tolerance, a concept developed by psychiatrist Dan Siegel that describes the range in which we can think clearly, connect with our kids, and respond (rather than react) to what's in front of us. Trauma narrows that window. Chronic high-conflict divorce narrows it even further. And when something pushes us outside that window, our nervous system responds in one of two ways: it speeds everything up (hyperarousal: fast talking, heat in the body, urgency, needing to win), or it slows everything down (hypoarousal: going quiet, shrinking, emotional flatness, checking out).Both responses make complete sense. Both were designed to protect you. And both can absolutely get in the way of the parent you want to be in that moment.he good news (and Dr. DePetris is practical and clear about this) is that these patterns are learnable and changeable. In this conversation, she walks you through exactly what to do in the moment and how to build the self-regulation muscle when you're not activated, so it's available to you when you are.What you'll take away from this episode:→ The clinical definition of a trigger — and why trigger warnings may not work the way we think→ How to recognize whether you tend toward hyperarousal or hypoarousal when you encounter your ex→ The single best thing to do in any activation moment (spoiler: it's a pause — but Dr. DePetris shows you exactly what that looks like for each response type)→ A breathing technique you can practice with your children right now: breathe in like you're smelling flowers, exhale long like you're blowing out birthday candles→ The '5 neutral things' grounding exercise and why naming them moves you from feeling to observation→ Why stepping away isn't avoiding — it's modeling self-regulation for your kids→ How to repair with your children after a hard moment, and why kids don't need perfect parents — they need present onesDr. Andrea DePetris is a clinical psychologist at Yale School of Medicine and works with adults in private practice. She specializes in helping people understand the internal patterns — shaped by early life and relationship history — that drive how they feel and respond, and supports them in updating those patterns to feel more integrated and at peace.#CoParenting #HighConflictDivorce #WindowOfTolerance #Triggers #EmotionalRegulation #NarcissisticEx #CustodyExchange #TraumaResponse #HighConflictCoParenting #ParentalAlienation #DivorceRecovery #ToxicEx #GroundingTechniques #MentalHealth #BeenThereGotOut

If your ex keeps dragging you back to court - filing motion after motion just to control, harass, and drain you, you already know how the legal system can become the abuser's most powerful weapon. What you might not know is that California is on the verge of changing that.In this episode, Lisa sits down with Monique, one of BTGO's own success stories. After years of navigating the family court system herself, Monique went to law school and founded the Women's Healing Resource Clinic SoCal, a grassroots domestic violence advocacy organization. And she's here to break down a bill that has us genuinely excited: California Senate Bill 1192, known as the RECLAIM Act.This legislation is designed specifically to address post-separation abuse through vexatious litigation — the pattern of filing frivolous court motions not because the filer expects to win, but because being in court means being close to you. It means draining your money, disrupting your work, and reminding you who still holds power over your life.Here's what SB 1192 would actually do, in plain language:- The three-part framework of SB 1192: how to qualify as a victim of litigation abuse, what the affidavit process looks like, and what protections kick in once you do.- Who can write your affidavit: certified domestic violence advocates with 40 hours of DV training under California Evidence Code 1037.1, as well as mental health professionals who know your case.- What "frivolous litigation" actually means under the law, and why the bill's updated language (removing the word "abusive" and leaving just "frivolous") may actually make it easier for survivors to qualify.- The most stunning piece: if approved, all future court filing fees could be waived, and you may be entitled to legal representation at no charge.- How to support the bill right now, including how to contact Senator Rubio's office, how to share your survivor story in a way that makes the most impact, and what Lisa learned from giving live testimony for Connecticut's Jennifer's Law.- What the national coercive control law landscape looks like, from California to Connecticut to Utah to the UK, and how to push for similar legislation in your own state.- The role of domestic violence resource centers in your area (and why so many survivors never think to call them).PLUS: Monique shares her incredible personal journey — from being a client of Lisa and Chris's coaching practice, to representing just 2% of Latina women who go on to become attorneys. Her story is a powerful reminder that people do rebuild, and that sometimes, that rebuilt life becomes a force for change.ADVOCATE FOR SB 1192:- Contact Senator Susan Rubio's office: sd22.senate.ca.gov- Co-sponsor: Family Violence Appellate Project (Oakland, CA)

What if the moment your child starts pulling away isn't a sign of failure, but the beginning of a chapter you can still write?Dr. Gloria Vanderhorst has spent 50 years as a psychologist inside divorce cases, family courts, and the offices of struggling parents. What she's learned might change the way you see everything.In this powerful conversation, Lisa sits down with Dr. Vanderhorst to explore the real psychology behind parental alienation - how it starts, why children pull away, what's actually happening inside your child's developing mind, and what you can do right now to protect and rebuild your relationship with them.Dr. Vanderhorst introduces a framework that most parents have never heard: divorce doesn't just disrupt your child's relationship with you, it disrupts their sense of place and their attachment to the world itself. When children lose two of their three core attachments simultaneously, their behavior shifts in ways that look like alienation but are rooted in survival. Understanding this changes everything.She also offers a deeply compassionate reframe for parents whose children are actively refusing contact: treat your child like a traumatized rescue animal who needs to earn safety at their own pace, not a family member who owes you time. Set your ego aside. Give them space. Stay consistent. That patience, she explains, is what eventually brings children back - and she has decades of cases to prove it.If your relationship with your child has been damaged by a toxic co-parent, this conversation gives you both the psychological foundation for understanding what's happening and the practical strategies for responding with patience, dignity, and hope.WHAT YOU'LL LEARN IN THIS EPISODE✅ Why divorce disrupts a child's three core attachments — and what that means for their behavior✅ The subtle, nonverbal ways alienation happens without any spoken words✅ How to talk about your ex's traits in ways that help your child without harming yourself✅ What to do when your child's alienation is getting worse, not better✅ Why age 14 is the most critical and dangerous period for refusal behavior✅ The 'letter strategy' that kept one father connected across years of complete estrangement — and resulted in every one of his children returning✅ How to survive the shame and social isolation that comes with being a rejected parent✅ A simple feelings vocabulary tool that can help you and your children rebuild emotional connectionABOUT DR. GLORIA VANDERHORSTDr. Gloria Vanderhorst is a licensed psychologist with 50 years of clinical experience spanning the full human lifespan. She began her practice with preschool children and has worked with individuals and families through every stage of development. Dr. Vanderhorst has extensive experience in divorce-related psychological work, including court testimony, child and adult evaluations, and post-divorce parenting support. Her website offers a range of downloadable resources, including her highly regarded feelings vocabulary sheet.Website: www.drgvanderhorst.com

What CPS Is Actually Looking For When They Knock on Your DoorWhen Child Protective Services shows up during a high-conflict divorce or custody battle, the fear can be overwhelming. You might be terrified of losing your children, furious at your ex for weaponizing the system, and completely in the dark about what happens next.In this episode, Lisa sits down with Sara Vandenberg, a trauma psychotherapist and former CPS caseworker in Texas, for one of the most practical, fear-reducing conversations we've ever had about what CPS investigations actually look like from the inside.Here's what Sara wants you to know before anything else: about 6-7 million children are investigated by CPS each year in the United States. Only about 5% are ever removed from the home. CPS is not a custody agency, and they cannot take your children and give them to your ex. That's not how the system works.Sara pulls back the curtain on the risk-versus-danger framework that CPS workers use when they walk into your home. Risk is the deer crossing sign on the road at night. Danger is the deer standing in the middle of the road. CPS is concerned with danger, not with judging you as a parent.She also shares something critical that surprises most parents: CPS is not looking to see if you are a good or bad parent. They are looking to see if your child is safe. Understanding this distinction can completely change how you approach a CPS investigation and how the investigator perceives you.

If you're saying “my ex is a narcissist”… listen first.If you've spent more than five minutes on TikTok, Reddit, or Instagram, you've seen it everywhere: “My co-parent is a narcissist.” And we get why that label feels validating. It gives your pain a name.But here's the problem: labels don't carry weight in court — behavior does. And when you lead with a diagnosis you can't prove, you risk looking reactive, emotional, or unreliable in the one place where credibility matters most.In this episode, we're joined by two powerhouse custody attorneys — Kristen Holstrom and Samantha McBride (the Custody Queens) — to explain what actually helps you win: specific facts, consistent documentation, strong boundaries, and a strategy that keeps you from getting pulled into emotional warfare.What You'll Learn in This EpisodeWhy calling your ex a narcissist can backfire legally and emotionallyThe difference between traits vs. a true clinical diagnosis (and why it rarely shows up in court)What judges care about most in custody cases: co-parenting and facilitating the other parent's relationshipHow to build a case using patterns, timelines, and evidenceWhy social media is forever (even if you delete it)How co-parenting apps like OurFamilyWizard can protect you and create documentation“Chess, not checkers”: how to stop reacting and start controlling your side of the streetWhy custody evaluations can go sideways when you show up with labels instead of factsKey Takeaways (AKA: The stuff that saves you money and sanity)1) Labels feel good. Evidence wins cases.Courts don't decide custody based on “he's a narcissist.” They decide based on what happened, how often, and how it impacts the children.2) Your credibility is everything.If you sound like you're diagnosing your ex, you may unintentionally look like the unstable one — especially in high-stakes settings like custody evaluations.3) Social media can cost you custody time and settlement leverage.Posting, reposting, liking, or commenting on “narcissist” content can be used against you. Even deleted posts can come back via screenshots.4) Boundaries are strategy — not weakness.Tools like OurFamilyWizard don't mean you failed. They mean you're building guardrails and a paper trail.5) Power is preparation.When you're organized, strategic, and documenting the right things, you get your power back.Action Steps (Do this after you finish the episode)Drop the label. Keep the facts. Replace “He's a narcissist” with: “He missed 7 pickups in 30 days.”Build a timeline. Dates, times, missed exchanges, late pickups, medical info withheld, school info excluded.

Narcissistic partners don't just manipulate emotions — they manipulate money, security, and your sense of stability. In divorce, that mix is dangerous: fear clouds judgment, and confusion gets expensive. In this episode of We Chat Divorce, Karen Chellew (Legal Liaison) and Catherine Shanahan (Certified Divorce Financial Analyst) sit down with Dr. Onalee, an expert in narcissistic relationship dynamics, to break down what actually helps you recover — emotionally and financially — when you're dealing with gaslighting, coercion, and high-conflict behavior. You'll learn Dr. Onalee's DONE framework (a 4-step recovery process), why “trying to win” arguments backfires with narcissistic personalities, and how verified financial clarity becomes the backbone that helps you stop reacting and start leading. How narcissistic dynamics show up as financial control, dependency, and fear Why people stay: the real role of financial paralysis (even when there's money) The love-bombing → withdrawal cycle and why it keeps people hooked The counterintuitive strategy that protects your peace: neutrality, not engagement Why you don't need to prove, protect, or defend your story to “flying monkeys” A practical mindset shift for long marriages: you're not “too late” — you're waking up A crucial divorce truth: you may not need to defend yourself socially, but you do need to prove assets with documents What to do if you're afraid to ask for financial records or worried your spouse will find out you're preparing Why “lawyering up” too early can pour gasoline on the fire — and what to do first instead Dr. Onalee teaches a simple framework to move from stuck to stable: D — Decide you're done O — Look at the origin (the wound/pattern being triggered) N — No more (boundaries + detachment from proving yourself) E — Enjoy your life (rebuild identity, peace, and future) If you're dealing with a high-conflict, narcissistic-leaning spouse, clarity is your leverage. When you know the numbers and have documents to support them, you stop negotiating from fear — and start making decisions that protect your future. Dr. Onalee specializes in helping people recover from narcissistic relationship patterns, rebuild self-worth, and create healthier relationships after high-control dynamics. She's also the host of Coming Home with Dr. Onalee. Find Dr. Onalee: Instagram: @Dr.Onalee In this episode, we cover:Dr. Onalee's DONE Method (the 4 steps)Key takeawayAbout Dr. OnaleeYouTube/Podcast: Coming Home with Dr. Onalee Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Learn actionable strategies to protect yourself and your children during a narcissistic divorce. This episode covers how to ethically leverage the court system, prepare financially, understand narcissistic behavior, maintain resilience, and ensure your case focuses on the best interest of the child.

In this episode of We Chat Divorce, Karen Chellew and Catherine Shanahan sit down with high-conflict divorce coach and post-separation abuse strategist Jackie Miller to talk about what it really looks like to divorce a narcissist, survive Crazy Town, and protect yourself from financial abuse during and after divorce. Jackie shares her story of a 16+ year emotionally and financially abusive marriage, how post-separation abuse showed up through the legal and court system, and why so many smart, successful women still feel “crazy” and powerless when trying to leave a controlling or narcissistic spouse. Together, we unpack how manipulation, false narratives, financial control, and threats of litigation are used to keep you spinning — and how nervous system regulation, financial clarity, and the right support team can help you reclaim your power, make smart financial decisions, and move forward. If you're feeling stuck in a high-conflict divorce, being gaslit about money, or overwhelmed by attorneys, forensics, and financial documents, this episode will give you language, validation, and a roadmap for your next steps. About Our Guest – Jackie Miller Jackie Miller is a high-conflict divorce coach and post-separation abuse strategist who helps women and out-spouses disentangle from toxic relationships, reclaim their energy, and stop reacting to narcissistic manipulation — especially inside the family court system. A survivor of a 16.5-year emotionally and financially abusive marriage followed by a high-conflict divorce, Jackie blends lived experience, neuroscience, and practical strategy in her work. She is also the host of the podcast “Out of Crazy Town: Your Guide to Divorcing a Narcissist,” where she speaks directly to those navigating the chaos of narcissistic and high-conflict divorce. Connect with Jackie: Website: jackiemillercoaching.com Podcast: Out of Crazy Town – Your Guide to Divorcing a Narcissist (available on major podcast platforms) Instagram & YouTube: @outofcrazytown Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This week on Divorce & Beyond, we are bringing back the number one episode of all time, my conversation with the incomparable Bill Eddy about his groundbreaking book Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder. This encore episode is more timely than ever and is also the perfect lead-in to next week's very special conversation with author Matthew A. Tower and Bill Eddy about Matthew's new book Love Wars: Clash of the Parents. That episode takes you inside the emotional experience of a child living through a high-conflict divorce. Today's replay sets the foundation for everything we will discuss next week. Why This Episode Matters There is a reason this conversation has remained the most downloaded episode in the history of Divorce and Beyond. Bill Eddy's insights have helped countless listeners understand what is happening in their high conflict divorce, why the conflict feels impossible to manage, and how to protect themselves and their children from the fallout. If you are facing a high-conflict situation, or if your co-parent has patterns of narcissistic, borderline, or antisocial behavior, this episode will give you the clarity and direction you need. In this episode you will learn: • What borderline, narcissistic, and antisocial personality patterns look like during divorce, and why they escalate conflict • The biggest mistakes people make when trying to “diagnose” or explain their spouse's behavior • How to communicate effectively using Bill's BIFF method (Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm) • Why judges often get high-conflict cases wrong, and what you can do to present your case clearly and effectively • How to document incidents safely and strategically • What to expect when divorcing a high-conflict person and how to pace yourself for the long haul • When mediation works, when it does not, and why preparation matters • How to stay calm and grounded when your spouse appears calm in court and you do not • The three biggest patterns you must highlight to the court so your case is understood • Why support systems, emotional boundaries, and strategic planning are essential for survival Bill's wisdom is clear, practical, and actionable. Whether you are preparing for divorce, in the thick of litigation, or co-parenting with a high-conflict ex, this episode gives you tools that truly make a difference. About Bill Eddy Bill Eddy is a therapist, lawyer, mediator, and co-founder of the High Conflict Institute. He has authored more than 20 books, including Splitting, BIFF for Co-Parents, and Mediating High Conflict Disputes, and is recognized worldwide as the leading expert on high-conflict personalities and their impact on divorce and family court. He is also one of the most popular and trusted guests in the history of Divorce and Beyond. A Perfect Lead-in to Next Week Be sure to tune in next week when Bill joins me again along with author Matthew A. Tower for a powerful new episode unpacking Matthew's true story of growing up in a high-conflict divorce in Love Wars: Clash of the Parents. It is an unforgettable look at how conflict affects children from the inside. Resources Mentioned • Splitting:Second Edition: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing Someone with Borderline or Narcissistic Personality Disorder by Bill Eddy and Randi Kreger: https://amzn.to/48eSPfu • High Conflict Institute: https://www.highconflictinstitute.com • BIFF for Co-Parent Communication by Bill Eddy: https://amzn.to/4iqZ18X • Mediating High Conflict Disputes  by Bill Eddy: https://amzn.to/4rlQgkD   Make the Most of Your Listening Experience: If this episode resonates with you, be sure to: Subscribe to Divorce & Beyond so you never miss an episode. Share this episode with friends or loved ones who need hope and healing. Leave a 5-star review to help us reach even more listeners. Follow Us Online: Divorce & Beyond:  https://divorceandbeyondpod.com, IG: @divorceandbeyondpod Meet Our Host Susan E. Guthrie®, Esq. is one of the nation's leading family law and mediation experts, with more than 35 years of experience helping individuals and families navigate divorce and conflict with clarity and compassion. She is the Immediate Past Chair of the American Bar Association Section of Dispute Resolution, a best-selling author, and a sought-after speaker, trainer, and practice-building consultant. Susan recently appeared as the featured expert on The Oprah Podcast, where she shared her insights on gray divorce and the changing landscape of relationships. Her expertise has also been featured in The Wall Street Journal, Forbes, The Washington Post, NewsNation, and NBC's Chicago Today, among many others. As the creator and host of the award-winning Divorce & Beyond® Podcast, ranked in the top 1% of all podcasts worldwide with more than 3.4 million downloads, Susan brings together top experts and powerful personal stories to help listeners move through divorce and beyond with confidence, insight, and hope. Learn more about Susan and her work at susaneguthrie.com. Divorce & Beyond is a Top 1% Overall and Top 100 Self-Help podcast designed to help you with all you need to know to navigate your divorce journey and most importantly, to thrive in your beautiful beyond!   ***************************************************************************** A Smarter, Simpler Way to Navigate Your Divorce Looking for a clearer and more affordable way to move through your divorce? Check out Hello Divorce. Their guided online platform combines easy-to-follow tools with real legal and coaching support to help you complete your divorce with less stress, less confusion, and far lower costs than a traditional courtroom battle. They have created a special page just for Divorce & Beyond listeners. Explore your options at hellodivorce.com/susan. ***************************************************************************** Opportunities for Expert Guests and Fellow Podcasters Partner with Divorce & Beyond Whether you're a podcaster looking to expand your reach or an expert ready to share your insights, Divorce & Beyond offers the perfect platform to amplify your voice.  Find out more here: https://divorceandbeyondpod.com/guest-opportunities ***************************************************************************** DISCLAIMER:  THE COMMENTARY AND OPINIONS AVAILABLE ON THIS PODCAST ARE FOR INFORMATIONAL AND ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY AND NOT FOR THE PURPOSE OF PROVIDING LEGAL ADVICE.  YOU SHOULD CONTACT AN ATTORNEY IN YOUR STATE TO OBTAIN LEGAL ADVICE WITH RESPECT TO ANY PARTICULAR ISSUE OR PROBLEM

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Divorcing a narcissist isn't just hard — it's war. In this powerful episode of the Enough Is Enough Podcast, Dr. David E. Clarke exposes the 10 shocking emotional, financial, and spiritual costs that come with ending a marriage to a narcissistic abuser. You'll learn: ✅ Why narcissists fight dirty during divorce — and how to prepare. ✅ The hidden emotional toll most victims never see coming. ✅ How to protect your children and your faith through the chaos. ✅ The truth about what the Bible really says about leaving an abusive marriage. ✅ How to heal, rebuild, and finally break free from the narcissistic cycle. Dr. Clarke combines 40 years of Christian counseling experience with biblical truth and practical steps to help you stand strong, reclaim your peace, and build a new life after narcissistic abuse.