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We speak with Millie Millgate, the director of Music Australia, established by the federal government two years ago to support our contemporary music scene. It’s a tough gig given the issues facing the local music industry. Festivals have been paused or cancelled. Live music venues are struggling. And local hits are few and far between.Millgate knows the industry back to front, having started out booking acts for Sydney pubs, then working in artist management, before running the music export initiative “Sounds Australia”. She talks to Sydney Morning Herald senior writer Garry Maddox about everything from the “glocalisation” of music, to the power of algorithms, to how we’ll find the next G Flip or Kid Laroi.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Skip the Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. Your host is  Kelly Molson, Founder of Rubber Cheese.Download the Rubber Cheese 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report - the annual benchmark statistics for the attractions sector.If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on iTunes, Spotify, and all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue or visit our website rubbercheese.com/podcast.If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review, it really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned in this podcastCompetition ends on 29th March 2024. The winner will be contacted via Twitter. Show references: https://carbonsix.digital/https://www.linkedin.com/in/pmarden/Paul Marden is the Founder and Managing Director of Carbon Six Digital and the CEO of Rubber Cheese. He is an Umbraco Certified Master who likes to think outside the box, often coming up with creative technical solutions that clients didn't know were possible. Paul oversees business development and technical delivery, specialising in Microsoft technologies including Umbraco CMS, ASP.NET, C#, WebApi, and SQL Server. He's worked in the industry since 1999 and has vast experience of managing and delivering the technical architecture for both agencies and client side projects of all shapes and sizes. Paul is an advocate for solid project delivery and has a BCS Foundation Certificate in Agile. https://www.rubbercheese.com/https://www.linkedin.com/in/kellymolson/Kelly Molson is the Founder of Rubber Cheese, a user focused web design and development agency for the attraction sector. Digital partners to Eureka! The National Children's Museum, Pensthorpe, National Parks UK, Holkham, Visit Cambridge and The National Marine Aquarium.Kelly regularly delivers workshops and presentations on sector focused topics at national conferences and attraction sector organisations including ASVA, ALVA, The Ticketing Professionals Conference and the Museum + Heritage Show.As host of the popular Skip the Queue Podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions, she speaks with inspiring industry experts who share their knowledge of what really makes an attraction successful.Recent trustee of The Museum of the Broads.  Transcription:   Kelly Molson: Welcome to Skip the Queue, a podcast for people working in or working with visitor attractions. I'm your host, Kelly Molson. In this new monthly slot, Rubber Cheese CEO Paul Marden joins me to discuss different digital related topics. In this episode, we're answering your questions from the 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report, asking what more you'd like to see in this year's survey and sharing more on how you can get involved next time. If you like what you hear, you can subscribe on all the usual channels by searching Skip the Queue. Kelly Molson: Hello.Paul Marden: Well, hello.Kelly Molson: This is nice. So the two of us haven't been together for a podcast episode for a while.Paul Marden: It does feel like, well, happy new year to start with.Kelly Molson: Way too late for that malarkey. We've just been busy, haven't we've got lots of exciting projects that are coming to. Well, I don't like to say the end, but they're coming to point of launch.Paul Marden: The launch, yeah. The exciting bit.Kelly Molson: The very exciting bit. So we've all been pulled here, there and everywhere. So I've had lovely guests to speak to and you've had a little bit of a break from this. But we're back. We're back.Paul Marden: Absolutely.Kelly Molson: And we're going to start like we always do with these ones. With what attraction have you visited most recently and what did you love about it?Paul Marden: I have been to Mary Rose Museum and I went with a bunch of nine and ten year olds. We basically went down there for the Kids in Museums Takeover Day. It's one of the kind of showpiece Kids in Museums events that they run every year all around, putting the ownership of the museum into the hands of kids. I managed to wangle my way to Mary Rose, which is relatively close to me. And I took my daughter's class, who I run a coding club for. So interestingly, theme around our coding club this year is all around the arts and how you put art into StEm and make it steam just like an amazingly.Kelly Molson: I can't believe how well that's worked out.Paul Marden: It gets better. The very first session of our club was all about what is the job of a museum curator. And so we took that theme and went and took over the Mary Rose and became curators for a day. So the kids got to go around the museum and have fun and see all the cool stuff that's going on there. They did the 3D Dive, the Mary Rose experience, and it was amazing watching a bunch of nine and ten year olds reaching out and popping these bubbles that were on the 3D screen in front of them. And then they went off and they designed their own interactive display around whatever was the thing that excited them about the museum.Paul Marden: So there was lots of dog themed ones because there's a dog that is the kind of subject of a lot of the kids stuff focused around Mary Rose. But there was all different sorts of interactive displays, augmented reality within the glass lift that looks onto the Mary Rose and how you could gamify it. The kids just had a whale of a time and I just strolled around the museum and watched them having fun and say, that wasn't a tough day at all.Kelly Molson: I'm actually really jealous as well because were due to go and then you got the opportunity to go because of that thing happening and I still haven't been.Paul Marden: I know. And it's an amazing place. We had so much fun. They welcomed us. We had all the education department looking after us and making us feel special. It was just such a brilliant day. Apart from trying to park a minibus with 15 kids somewhere near the Mary Rose, which scared me whitlets.Kelly Molson: Oh, you actually drove a bus?Paul Marden: I did not drive the bus, no, I was a navigator. I had to find the parking spot. It's a level of responsive.Kelly Molson: You were bus driver dad as well that day.Paul Marden: There's a character in Peppa Pig, isn't there? I can't remember who she is, but she works in the supermarket. She drives the minibus.Kelly Molson: This rabbit is the hardest working rabbit you'll ever meet in your whole.Paul Marden: Exactly.Kelly Molson:  No, I'm going to put her on par. Sorry, I'm actually going to put her on par with Mrs. Rabbit, who has got hundreds of kids who doesn't work, but she has to look after those. So she is probably the hardest working rabbit that you'll ever find. So there you go. Digress into Peppa Pig. You can see where my world is right now, can't you? That just gave you an insight into where I'm spending my time.Paul Marden: So tell me about where have you been recently?Kelly Molson: I have been recently to the Museum of the Broads. I don't ever really spoken about this on the podcast that much. But I am a trustee of the Museum of the Broads and it is a lovely museum. It does not get as much love and attention as it should. So I felt that today was a good opportunity to highlight it. It's wonderful. It's on the broads, obviously, it's in Stallham. And it is such incredible value for money because you can buy a ticket to the museum and a boat trip. And the boat trips are phenomenal. Last year these were really popular, so they introduced some afternoon evening boat trips where you could go and spot kingfishers because that stretch of the broads is absolutely like prime Kingfisher viewing area.Kelly Molson: I have only ever seen one Kingfisher out in real life, and they're so quick, like it was a flash of blue and I didn't have my glasses on it. She wasn't going to see anything in great detail. That is incredible. On one of the trips last year, on the boat trip, they saw ten kingfishers. It might have been the same kingfisher, just like, who knows? I'm going to say ten. I'm going to take the ten. But the museum itself is wonderful. Some of the artefacts they have there are just really fun and really engaging. And obviously they've got lots of information about the boats and the broads themselves and what the broads were traditionally used for and how they've developed over the years. It's a lovely little museum. It's volunteer led. They have, I think, two or three members of paid team there.Kelly Molson: So much work goes into the management and the development of those museums when it's volunteer led as well. So it's lovely. It is really lovely.Paul Marden: We both started doing trusteeship type stuff at the same time. So I started at Kids in Museums because I wanted to see a broad view of things. You started at Museum of the Broads because you wanted to see the inside running of the museum itself. What has the experience been like for you?Kelly Molson: It's so different. It's such a different environment to what I'm used to. So, I mean, it won't surprise you to know that museums are not quite as dynamic as an agency, or they're just not as fast paced as an agency. So I think the speed at which some things happen is I find it a bit of a challenge, if I'm honest, because we're used to kind of going, should we try this? Okay, let's talk it. Okay, great. Let's not someone run with it. And it's sort of just, I don't know, there's a speed at which stuff happens in an agency that it's incomparable to any other organisation. So it's nice in some ways that kind of take a bit of time to kind of think things through. I've really enjoyed understanding about all of the different facets that are required within an agency, within a museum. Sorry.Kelly Molson: And the things that you have to understand about. Even when we had an office, there's a level of HR and a level of safety management that you have to do, but it's a whole other level when it's a museum and you've got members of the public coming along. So that's been really interesting to understand and learn about. I've really enjoyed kind of looking at how they're developing certain areas of the museum as well. So when there's a new exhibition that's on. So last year, the Pippa Miller exhibition launched. Pippa Miller was a really famous artist that was connected to the broads, and the museum was entrusted with some of her artwork when she passed, and it's the only place you can come and see it. It's a wonderful exhibition.Kelly Molson: So understanding about how those exhibitions are developed and put on and watching those happen as well. And there's another one this year that will happen, which is an exhibition on peat, which I know that probably doesn't sound that interesting, but it really is my mate Pete. No, not your mate Pete. No, actual Peat. Peat soil Pete. So, yeah, that's been really nice to see and kind of understand how those things progress and are developed and the ideas that go into them. It's fascinating.Paul Marden: Cannot imagine the effort that goes into curating a whole exhibition like that.Kelly Molson: It's vast. And I will give a huge shout out to Nicola, the curator at the Museum of the Broads, because she works tirelessly there to just bring these stories to life. That's essentially what they do. They bring the stories of the broads to life. This is a little plea from me, actually. A little shout out to everyone that's listening. If everybody listening to this podcast, I mean, we get hundreds of people listen to these episodes. If everyone went and bought a ticket from the Museum of Broada that's listening to this episode today, it would make such a massive difference to that little museum. So if you are thinking about booking a little staycation this year, head to Norfolk, get a ticket to the Museum of the Broads, go and check out the broads themselves.Kelly Molson: It is just a wonderful experience to go and see that museum and take a boat trip down the broads.Paul Marden: There's a very nice place nearby to stay as well, isn't?Kelly Molson: Yeah, I mean, a certain podcast host does have a lovely little place in Norfolk that you could rent out, which is literally 25 minutes from this museum as well. Just heads up. Paul Marden: Incidental.Kelly Molson: If you want to give me a shout, I can put you in the direction of 28 Millgate. Or you could just search that on Google. No, honestly, genuinely, if you are thinking about having a staycation and you're heading that way, put it top of your list because it's a lovely afternoon out. Thank you. Thanks for listening to my podcast.Paul Marden: So what are we actually talking about today then?Kelly Molson: In this episode, we are going to be answering some of the questions that we've received from the 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report. So, as you can imagine, we launch the report, we do the survey. All you lovely people fill in our survey for us and we launch the report, which gives you an analysis of what that survey data has meant. And it's a huge undertaking. It really is a huge undertaking. And I don't say that lightly. It's massive. It takes over our whole lives. And there is so much data in the report that we send out, but there's always questions, there's always more, and there's always more that we can do as well. And I think it just is an awful lot of work. Right.Kelly Molson: So what happens is we launch it goes out, people digest it, and then they send us emails and they say, “This is really great. Thank you for this bit. Is there any insight into this thing?” And there's quite a lot of those emails that come in and most of them we probably can answer. It just, again, takes a bit of work to go back and look at the data and crunch the data and see if there is any answers to those questions. So we have had some of these questions in and we thought, well, let's do it as a podcast. And then everybody can hear the answers to these questions because it might be something that other people are thinking about as well.Kelly Molson: So we're going to talk through some of the ones that have been sent in, and then we are going to give you a bit of a heads up about what's happening with this year's report and survey and talk a little bit about that. Sound good?Paul Marden: Does sound good. I need to get my geek hat on my numbers. Geek hat.Kelly Molson: It's time for Paul to nerd out. I will be asking the questions. Paul will be nerding out on the answers. Right. Okay. One of the questions we had in was how many respondents were return respondents from 2022 to 2023?Paul Marden: Yeah. This was a question that somebody asked in relation to. They saw some changes, I think it was in terms of ticketing systems that were being used and they wanted to know, “Oh, if there's been a change in the ticketing systems that were used, could that because we've got different group of people, or is it the same people changing systems?” So, yeah, I dug into that. It was actually relatively hard to figure this out because what people type in as the name of their attraction is not always exactly the same. It's sometimes different people, sometimes they'll write the same name in a slightly different way. So actually, comparing apples with apples turned out to be quite challenging and I had to change some of the data to normalise it between the two groups.Paul Marden: I could see they were the same attraction, although their names were subtly different. What I worked out was two different views of the same thing. But essentially, in the 2023 data set, 20% of the respondents were return respondents from the previous year. But of course, the 2023 data set was much bigger than the 2022 data set. So if you look at it from the other direction, how many people that filled in a survey in 22? Filled in a survey in 23? It's 50% of the 2022 respondents replied in 2023. So we had a good return rate? Yeah, for sure. But there was 50% of people didn't reply. So that made me think, there's a job of work to do this year.Kelly Molson: Where did you go 50% of you. Cheeky little monkeys.Paul Marden: And they vary. Some of them are smaller institutions, some of them are much bigger institutions. There's the reasonable amount of movement of people in the sector, isn't there? So you can easily imagine. Actually, there was an interesting one there, isn't it? What if I were to match the names of the respondents? Did we actually get a reasonable number of returners, but they were in a different job with a different institution?Kelly Molson: Yeah, that's really a good point, actually, because I do know that people, I know people personally, that I know that they've moved on and gone to different places, and actually, some moved out of the sector and moved into completely different roles altogether.Paul Marden: There is a decent cohort of people that returned and responded in 23, but the 23 data set was much bigger. So when you do see swings between 22 and 23, some of that is just a sample size thing with the best will in the world. We talk to lots of people and lots of people respond with data to us, but we have not captured the whole entire set of all attractions in the UK, and so we will get sampling errors out. If one year we sample a different group of people than we did the previous year, the comparisons can be a little bit harder.Paul Marden: If we could just get more people responding and we had more data, then you'll get that the role of chance and the role of sampling errors will have less impact on the data and you'll be able to compare more year on year outcomes.Kelly Molson: Yeah. Okay, well, there's your call out to get involved this year we'll let you know how.Paul Marden: There's going to be lots of those.Kelly Molson: Okay, second question. Can we break down the responses in the other type category? This is an interesting one, isn't it? Because we detailed out as many different visitor attraction types as we possibly could think of or find on internet and gave everybody the opportunity to be able to select what they specifically were, but we still had a huge amount of people put other. What's the reasoning behind that?Paul Marden: Can I give you facts and then tell you what I think the reasoning is? Yeah. So there's some things that I know. Okay. 37% of all respondents mark themselves as the other. It skews when you drill into that 37%. It's a big group of people. It was like the second or third largest group of people in the report itself. They tended to be attractions that had lower visitor numbers. So they were under 100,000 visitor numbers in that other group. So it was about 45% of people were under 100. About 37% were between 100 and a million visitors. Those are the things we know. Then I started having a play with the data.Paul Marden: So what if I were to group those people that were in other because they had the opportunity to type some stuff in for free text box, and could I make a grouping out of that? One thing that I did notice, and this is observation as opposed to fact. Okay. So I could see many of the places that chose other because we didn't allow them to choose multiple types and they were an attraction that had multiple things. So one of them was one of our clients. And they have a historic house. They have a guest house, they have a beach, they have outdoors activities. They've got.Kelly Molson: So how do you categorise yourself based on all of those? Actually, with that client, I probably would have said historic house because that was what I would have put my hat on for that one.Paul Marden: But then I met somebody yesterday. Not too dissimilar. Yeah. Primarily a historic house, but it's a historic house that has a hotel, bar, golf on the site. And if you ask them, it would totally depend on who you spoke to as to what they primarily were. There were people that ran the historic house who would have you believe that they were primarily a historic house, but there were other people that would say, “Well, actually the revenue is generated elsewhere in the organisation and primarily we are a hotel and golf destination and alongside we have a historic house.” So I think there was a nuance in the way that we asked the question, please choose what type of attraction you are. And the only option for the people that had lots of these things was to say other.Paul Marden: And actually, I think going forwards we probably need to say, what are you primarily, and do you have other things and give people the option to choose multiples?Kelly Molson: Yeah, I was going to say, because even if you put multi, it causes the same challenge, doesn't it? Without being.Paul Marden: But when I had to play around with that group and I tried to assign them to things partly based on what they replied on their questionnaires and partly by looking at their websites and having a guess, a lot of them had some element of outdoor activity. A lot of them had food and drink. There was a large group that weren't multi activity. I don't know what a better way to describe those historic houses with other things going on, but there was a decent size of people or decent sized number of attractions that were tv themed and they were primarily a behind the scenes tour or something themed around a tele program. And we didn't have that. There was nothing like that in any of our categorisations.Paul Marden: So again, it just comes down to refining the questionnaire every year to try to improve what we've got. Give people the option to choose multiples and include some other groups. But avoid getting to a point when you look at all the categories we gave, because you mentioned, we gave lots of categories, there was a very long tail. There was a large number of the actual categories where it had one or two attractions within that grouping. And then it's like, is that a meaningful way of slicing and dicing the data? So we have to be really careful not to throw too many categories at it, but at the same time give people some choices.Kelly Molson: Yeah. You also have to feel that the people have to feel that they are included within this as well. So if those one or two people came along and they couldn't choose what they were, would they feel excluded from it?Paul Marden: Yeah. Would they drop out? Because this clearly isn't for me.Kelly Molson: Exactly. I'm all for having more choice in that. It's a tick box. That's fine. There's other stuff that we can take out, don't worry.Paul Marden: And that's because you're not looking at the data. Add more numbers.Kelly Molson: I'm all for cutting stuff out if it makes life easier for people and more people will be able to fill it in and that. But I think that one particular thing is not one that we need to cut back on.Paul Marden: No, I agree with you. Totally agree.Kelly Molson: Were all attractions who responded to the survey paid for, or how do those ecommerce results break down between those that have an entry fee and those that are free? This was a good question.Paul Marden: Yeah, it really was. In many of the questions that we've got, some people chose not to answer us. Within this group, there's a group of people in the whole set of data that chose not to answer this, either because they didn't know or they felt they didn't want to answer the question. But if we take everybody that reported an entry fee, 15% of those people were free of charge. So they ticked the box that said they had no entry fee. That's already a fairly small group amongst the whole data set. So we're asking questions here that zero in on a smaller and smaller group. This sounds like I'm giving excuses before I give you my homework. Yeah. But as the groups get smaller, then the role of chance and sample error means that the data becomes less and less reliable.Paul Marden: And I got to be honest, within that 15%, there was a large number of people that didn't tell us a conversion rate. So you're down into a very small number of people now. 85% of the free to enter attractions didn't tell us what their conversion rate was or said they didn't know or couldn't measure it.Kelly Molson: So that's interesting in itself, because this is some of the things that we've been talking about in terms of the conversion rate and how we measure that effectively, because some of those free museums obviously will have probably smaller teams, less budget, less ability, maybe just less understanding of what we're asking in the first place. My assumption is that they will use off the shelf ticketing platforms that they might not be able to get the conversion rate from. So you've got that limitation in the data that they can actually then supply us because they genuinely just don't have it, they don't know it.Paul Marden: Or because they're free. They don't think about the concept of conversion. But in that instance, how much does it matter the number of people that come to your website and then the number of people that actually buy? If there is no ticketing, if you're free to enter and you don't even need a ticket to pre book to enter, does it even matter? And I would argue absolutely, it definitely does. Because instinctively, I would believe that there is definitely a relationship between the number of people that visit your website and the number of people that visit your attraction. And if you can improve the ratio between those two, you'll get more bookfalls through the attraction.Paul Marden: And even if you're free to enter a considerable portion of the money that you make out of the attraction is going to be from donations, from people walking through the door. It will be food and beverage sales, it will be gift shops, it will be memberships that they join to get other things. All of those things need bums on seats, don't they? If you don't get bums on seats, you don't generate that revenue. But it can be hard, I think, to join the dots between that big number of people that visit your website, hopefully, and the number of people that are actually walking through the door and creating a correlation between, or creating a relationship between the two.Kelly Molson: It's when there's no purchase made from that thing to that thing, there's almost nothing to tie them together.Paul Marden: Yeah, but it makes it harder to think about which, when you're a small attraction in those sorts of circumstances, if it's harder to think about, then it's not going to be a priority for you. But I would argue it would be a super important thing to do because you tweak those. We're all about tweaking the dials, aren't we? We're all about trying to increase. Kelly Molson:  Marginal gains.Paul Marden: Exactly. And in that instance, it can be hard to see the point. But I definitely believe there really is a point to it. If I go one more thing, I would say, and this is where the data.Paul Marden: I don't think the data is reliable, but were into this small group of people that we had, 15% of people say that they were free, and in that group we had a small number of people tell us what their conversion rate was, and it varied. There were some attractions that had a 1% conversion rate. There were some attractions that chose the 5% conversion rate, which was the higher end of the bracket, which was the average over the whole group. I bet you there's more data that would help us to understand what the difference between the 1% and the 5% was. Is it chance or is there something materially different between those two types of institution? I don't know, but there's a debate there.Paul Marden:  And is it valuable for us to investigate that there's only so much time to be able to put to these things?Kelly Molson: Well, I think this is why it's important. Well, this is why we value people asking the questions about the report. This is why we encourage people to give us feedback and to send us these questions in, because it all adds to the conversation and it all helps us make this better and better every year because we can understand what you send us a question and then that gives us an understanding of what's really important for you right now. So we can start to incorporate some of the ways to get the answer to that question into the survey and the report for this year.Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely.Kelly Molson: So send us more questions. As a midway to this podcast, definitely send us some more questions. You can send them to me, Kelly@rubbercheese.com, or you can send them to paulm@rubbercheese.com but whatever you do, just send them in. And then we can again start to look at how we incorporate some of those questions into this year's.Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely.Kelly Molson: Okay, next question. It's around ticketing platforms. One question came in and they noted the apparent percentage drop in use of access gamma in the past year. So what we saw was Digitickets and Merack both seemed to kind of hold their share, and they're UK based. With over 70% of the 188 respondents UK based and about a quarter of European. We found it a little odd that there was such a drop here in such a short space of time and wondered if you had any further insight. Interesting one, isn't it, because we all noted that access had dropped off a little bit.Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely. I'm going to caveat this again. I can go into more depth and understand the differences between the two, but I would caveat it that if we had more responsive, we could be more confident in the reliability of the difference across years. But we've gone from a large, but a sample in 22, a bigger sample in 23. The 23 sample included some of the 22 people. But really, I think what the question I was getting at is how many of those people actually switch ticketing platforms between that group? And I think that is unlikely to be the reason why we saw these changes. Yeah, of course people change ticketing platform, but it's the beating heart of the business. They don't change it on a whim and they don't change them dramatically very quickly. Yeah.Paul Marden: By the way, there's no evidence to this in that respect. There could be changes, but my instinct is it's unlikely to be a wild change on the basis of the number of people because it's just not that easy to.Kelly Molson: No. And we speak to agencies, our own clients have been through these processes, and we know how long they take and we know how embedded those systems are within an organisation and how difficult it actually is to switch from one to another and the time frame that it takes. So I would agree with you.Paul Marden: On the basis of that. I think the differences are more easily explained by we got more different people included. And we're seeing more of what the sector buys. Now, whether, when we get into 24, whether we see another swing again. Well, that's entirely plausible, because the sample sizes, they're not big enough to be statistically valid. They give an indication, but they will suffer from chance in some areas. And it could just be the group of people that we've got, we know within the year demonstrates the usage of the ticketing platforms within the group of people that responded within that year, but unlikely to be comparable across the years. Only 20% of this year's data were responses that had been given in 22 as well. Paul Marden: So we've only got a small group. Within that group the data has changed dramatically in that year, mainly with people telling us they chose an other not listed system. So it was not one of the big ones that were familiar with, and no one reported anything in that group last year. So this is where you know as well as I do, we get people asking us for copies of their data that they've submitted, because there's a big period of timing between when they submit stuff and the report being published, and then they want to see what they did, what they gave to us, don't they? So people remembering what they wrote last year and putting it in again this year, it's no wonder we see differences between the two year groups. Apart from other not listed, which was by far like a country mile than largest number of responses.Paul Marden: The biggest absolute change in the number of responses within the repeating group was digitickets. Digitickets had more people within that returning group saying that they were using their ticketing platform.Kelly Molson: And I can't remember this off the top of my head, but where people are selecting other not listed, are we giving them the opportunity to write who they are using? So did we give them an open.Paul Marden: Such an unfair question? I can't remember the answer.Kelly Molson: I genuinely can't remember. But if we didn't, well, then we need to, because that space, I mean, there's a lot of ticketing platforms already, but there are new ones popping up all over and there are ones that are specifically focused on accessibility for an example. There are ones that are relatively similar in terms of what they're doing to everyone else, just packaged up in a different way. So it would just be interesting to see some of the names that people were putting forward and where people are swinging to. Kelly Molson: We know that there's Tessitura, for example, and Spektrix that are used quite predominantly in theatre world now. People have always talked really positively about those two platforms and it would be interesting to see if they are looking to make that transition over into the attractions world.And maybe some of these people are starting to kind of move over to those. Who knows?Paul Marden: There's a few systems lots of people know about because they're not just pure ticketing, are they? They're ticketing. So they manage the ticket inventory, they do online sales, they do walk ups, they do EPOS, they manage a shop, they manage a catering, they do everything to operate the entire attraction. And then there were other systems that focus purely on ecommerce and the sale of the tickets themselves online. There are other people that focus purely on the EPOS offering. And actually, there's a lot of complexity within these systems that go to running the attraction itself. And maybe again, we need to give people more choice about what they choose and give them the opportunity to choose multiple things. Because we might say, do you use gamma or do you use Merac or do you use Digitickets?Paul Marden: And there may well be people that use digitickets for their e commerce sales, and they might use Merac for their membership, or they're running the epochs in the shops and their food and beverage. I don't think we give people the opportunity to have the nuance of selecting multiple things that they use.Kelly Molson: Yeah, for like, I literally just had a conversation with someone who uses Digitickets for their ticket in, but Merac for their K-Three, for their till. So, yeah, I totally see where we need to do that. Okay, good. Two more questions. Is there future scope to develop comparisons against other science centres?Paul Marden: Yes is the short answer, and yes, we have done that. It's quite interesting because you and I both have been talking about this year's survey at different places and the science centres one is a good example. It's good because I was the one talking. Well, it's good because I was the one, but. So I went to the Association of Science and Discovery Centres conference in Belfast. I talked about that one of the pods just recently, and I had a table talk where I was talking about essentially observations that I found about the data about science centres. But you've done talks in numerous different locations.Kelly Molson: All over the place. I was all over the place last year. Here, there and everywhere.Paul Marden: Slicing and dicing the data to talk to the group of people that you were talking to. So you were in Ireland and you talked about comparisons of the attractions that we've got in both the Republic and Northern Ireland. And then you talked to know that's a different slice of larger attractions. And in both cases, were slicing and dicing the data and trying to find what made that group of people special or what were the observations that we had, weren't they?Kelly Molson: That was one of the nice things about the report this year, because the data set was so much larger, we could make the things that were talking about so much more specific for people. So the ALVA talk was really great, actually. So I was very kindly invited along to speak at one of the ALVA council meetings. And it was at Bletchley Park, oh my goodness. In their new auditorium that were the first group to speak in there. It was wonderful, such a good experience.Kelly Molson: But that was lovely because I was able to talk about how ALVA members are performing and give them a specific breakdown of the things that they're doing well, some of the things that they potentially not doing so well, and give them some real insight into how they can improve on the things when they're not doing so well. So that was lovely. And then the same at AVEA. It was great to be able to give, again, a breakdown of how irish attractions are performing in terms of the rest of the country, but also showcase attractions that are doing really brilliantly from those areas. So actually in the talks I could highlight a specific Irish attraction that was doing an absolutely phenomenal job in terms of great website, great conversion rate, all of those things.Kelly Molson: And it was really nice to be able to shine spotlight on people this year as well.Paul Marden: So pick out some examples of that. Yeah, so let's just pick out some of the examples from the science centre. So the ASDC members, it was interesting because ASDC members tended to have higher football than when you compared it to the whole group of respondents that we had. That surprised me. ASDC members tended to have higher entry fees than all respondents. ASDC members tended to have substantially higher mobile usage than all respondents. So you're up into 90% of traffic for ASDC members or ASDC members tended to have upwards of 89%, 90% mobile traffic, whereas when you look at the whole group of everybody, it was down into 60%. So still the majority, but not as big a majority.Kelly Molson: That's interesting.Paul Marden: So again, is this chance or is there something interesting about the audience that buy tickets to go to a science centre. Are they genuinely different than people that go to the all set?Kelly Molson: Well, yeah. Is this stereotypically because someone is really interested in science and technology, therefore they are more digitally advanced potentially as an audience. And that's why that's higher. That's interesting.Paul Marden: ASDC members tend to spend less of their gross profit on marketing. 18% of ASDC members spent more than 5% of their turnover on marketing, whereas when you look at the whole group, 24% of all respondents spent more than 5%. So it's interesting, isn't it, this difference in the outcomes and the difference for the inputs. ASDC members were much more likely to track their conversion rate, but most of them didn't track their cart abandonment rate. So they don't know how many people were giving up partway through. ASDC members were more likely to have a top level conversion rate. And of the ones that did tell us what their cart abandonment rate, it was more likely to be lower than the average. They updated their websites more frequently and they tend to spend more on their websites each year than the average.Paul Marden: So there was markedly different things that happened across the different groups when you looked at ALVA, much larger organisations. So footfall is higher because that's a minimum entry criteria. They spend more on marketing and they have better outcomes. They had better conversion rates than average.Kelly Molson: Unsurprising.Paul Marden: Unsurprising completely. But what was interesting was within that group, the averages marked quite relative poor performance. So there were some examples where there were attractions spending a large amount on their site, but achieving poorer conversion rates than the average.Kelly Molson: Hopefully those aren't clients. Fingers crossed.Paul Marden: So yeah, there's group averages and you can see differences by the different groups. I think in future, wouldn't it be interesting if potentially we did this sort of analysis based on the type of organisation? If you're a museum, are you more likely to have a higher conversion rate than you are if you're all respondents?Kelly Molson: Well, this is the thing.Paul Marden: What's of interest?Kelly Molson: Yeah, exactly. We can say, oh, this is interesting. Wouldn't this be useful to know? But actually is it useful to know for you? One of the things that we did talk about doing was doing a regional breakdown of how attraction is performing. And I think that's probably on the cards for the next month or so to get that out. We raised that and got some quite good feedback on having that. So that's definitely top of the list. Kelly Molson: But yeah, again, are these things going to be useful for you? We've always had the ethos that any kind of information or support documentation or essentially our marketing has to be useful for you. Right? What's the point otherwise? We need to know what you need. So more questions, please more. Do you have this? Can we have this? If we can't do it, we'll tell you, but if we can do it, we'll damn well work hard to get you it.Paul Marden: You can just imagine that some people find the full written port to be report to be really useful. It gives a fixed set of slices and dices and it gives interesting insights and it gives recommendation. But people might be interested more in more group comparisons or geographical comparisons with less of a large report and more of a. Well, I want to see a white paper about my sector or my location or what is special about me compared to everybody else, as opposed to telling me everything that is good in the sector. Where do we focus our attention to have the best value for people at the end of this?Kelly Molson: Good. Last question. Is there a correlation between conversion rate and visitor numbers?Paul Marden: It's really interesting because this got me playing with the data. I'm all over a pivot table in excel. All right, so I did loads of analysis. Kelly Molson: I am not.Paul Marden: No. We've got our strengths and weaknesses and complement each other very well, I think when I did this first time round and I was working with a team of people that were analysing data, but I was slicing and dicing in different ways and I looked at these things and I thought there was no great relationship. But when this question came in, I had another stab at reorganising the data. And actually I did a heat map version of what is your average sales conversion rate? And we've got like zero to one to two, three to four to five and more than five. And then what is your annual visitor numbers in groups?Paul Marden: And actually, the larger the annual footfall on site, the more likely you were to have a high conversion rate.Kelly Molson: Just for our listeners, this data is quite difficult to visualise. We've got a graph, we've got some pre pictures that will explain this better, which we will put out on social media. If you follow our Twitter account, or if you're connected with us on LinkedIn, or follow our LinkedIn Rubber Cheese, or Skip the Queue LinkedIn pages, we'll put all of that on there. What we'll also do as well is when we edit this podcast, we always do a video. The videos don't get a lot of love, but there's loads of videos up on our YouTube. So head over to the Rubber Cheese YouTube channel and within this episode we will insert what we're talking about as well. So it's just a bit easier to digest.Paul Marden: So yeah, there is definitely a relationship between these two factors. The more footfall there is, the more likely you are to have a high conversion rate. Just intuitively, they must be related variables. This is not just a relationship between the two. There is somehow one is feeding into the other the more footfall you have, the more budget you're going to have, the more you'll be able to invest in marketing, the more you invest in marketing, you'll have more people focusing on different elements of your marketing and you'll have more budget to spend on digital people that can focus on conversion rates and marginal gains. I don't know whether that's true. The data doesn't prove that. That's just my instinct that spending money on people like me is probably a worthwhile investment. But that's just instinct. There's no proof for that.Paul Marden: The heat map shows there's a relationship, but there's loads of factors involved in what goes on. As I said to you before, spending more money does not guarantee you great outputs. And you have to measure these things, make regular changes, because just because you've got a large number of people coming through the door does not guarantee you a high conversion rate. And you need to graft to get to the point where your website is converting as best it possibly can. One major redesign does not an increased conversion rate may you need to do lots of little things regularly to nudge it in the right direction.Kelly Molson: Yeah, it's just the start. Yeah. That comes back to what I said at the beginning about. I was just about to say we're at the end of the project. I'm like, no, we're not star of the project because the project is launching. That's the starting point for the rest of the process.Paul Marden: Yeah, absolutely.Kelly Molson: Oh, this has been really good. Well, look, listeners, hopefully you found that useful. Hopefully some of the listeners that are listening, we've answered your questions as well. We'll send this out to all the people that did ask the questions specifically as well. But yeah, coming back to what we've said, is there something that is a burning question from you, from the data that we've already released? Is there something that would be so incredibly useful for you that we haven't released that we might potentially have? We just don't know. Or we don't know that you need it. And what does this year's survey hold and what would be useful for the survey and the report to hold for you this year? So we are at the point now where we're gearing up for the 2024 survey.Kelly Molson: Last year we launched it in May at the fabulous Museum and Heritage show. Plans are afoot at the moment for when we launch it, but nothing is diarised yet. So it's a really good opportunity to get involved and have your say about what you'd love to see in it this year.Paul Marden: Yeah. There's some key themes that have come out of our kind of retrospective. We've been belly button gazing and questioning what do we do next year? And there's obvious things that come out of it. One of our big things was we want to simplify 2024. We asked too many too complex questions last year and it took too long for people to submit their responses. And that's not fair.Kelly Molson: It's a big ask that we're asking of you to trust us with your data as it is. We don't want you sitting around for like half an hour having to fill it all out.Paul Marden: So we want to simplify, we want less questions, and we're going to look at potentially a different questionnaire platform. We've done different platforms each year in the last two years and I don't think we found the right answer yet. So that might be an area that we try and simplify things. My instinct of, and this is just based on my own struggles with life. Okay. I am struggling with Google Analytics 4 for everybody. All of my data has moved and I don't know how to answer my questions. And that data that's in GA4, it's the core of the questions that we ask in the questionnaire. And I'm thinking, if I do this every day, what must it be like for all of you guys listening? So what can we do to help you understand how to gather the data and how to submit it?Paul Marden: Because there's obviously going to be a disparity, isn't there, between people that do this every day and people that do this as part of a bigger job and they don't do it all the time and they need advice and guidance.Kelly Molson: Yeah. So one of the ideas that's been floating around is that we actually put on little workshop or little webinars, which it shows you how to go and get the data that actually is needed to fill in the survey. And then that's with you. It's a reference point. You can keep hold of that for the following years and the following, the subsequent years. And we might look at, we've got a brilliant circle of fabulous suppliers that we work with that are all attractions focused, and so we could potentially partner up with them and run the workshops and do something like that.Paul Marden: The questions that we're asking, the data that we're gathering is likely to be marketers' dream dashboards anyway. So it's not just of use to the survey itself, it's of use to your day to day month to month reporting and demonstrating the efficacy of what you're doing. We want to increase the number of people that are responding from large multi site organisations. So the plea call to action here for digital markets is in large multi sites. We were interested in talking to you about. If you've got 50 odd sites that you manage ticketing for and multiple attractions all over the country, filling in the questionnaire based form approach that we've given may not be the right way for you to share data with us. No, we're really flexible. We want data. We want to ingest more data because it improves the quality of the responses.Paul Marden:  So we'll be completely flexible around what different large multi site organisations can provide and the method with which it makes most sense for them to provide it.Kelly Molson: So what are we doing? We're doing a vocal shout out here to National Trust, English Heritage, et cetera, to say if you want to be part of the survey and the subsequent report and the process that we're offering you, it doesn't work. You're not going to sit there 50 times, however many sites you've got and fill in this data. That's ridiculous. We can give you a better process of doing that and we can work with you one on one to work out how that works best for you as well.Paul Marden: Completely.Kelly Molson: If you do want to be involved, don't let the process of how we collect the data put you off. We can solve that challenge for you.Paul Marden: Shout out, call to action. Really for everybody that submitted last year and would be thinking about this year's survey is tell us what key themes are of interest to you. We have what we think is interesting and we'll follow our noses and ask questions and ruble around the data to try and find the answers. But we don't know what you want as well as you know what you want. So tell us, as you said, Kelly, ask questions about what you'd like to see, but tell us what you'd like us to do. We might be able to do something really easily based on the data that we've already got. We might need to ask another question. There was a question that somebody asked that weren't able to answer.Paul Marden: They wanted to know whether you were primarily educationally focused as an institution or primarily focused on selling tickets, whether that had an impact on your conversion rate. And actually, without us guessing, it's impossible for us to answer that question. And what's the point in us guessing because we're going to give you meaningless data if we ask the right questions. What's the primary focus of your website? What are the secondary focuses of your website? If we do that, then we might be able to slice and dice the data. So ask us the questions now because we can use that to influence what questions we include in the survey.Kelly Molson: I would add to also as well, if you are well, to say thank you. We had a phenomenal amount of support with the survey last year and the report. But for us, being able to move from 70 respondents in year one to nearly 200 in year two, the difference in that was all of the membership organisations that supported. It's a mammoth task. There's no way I could have done that on my own just by sending it lots of people and hitting people up on LinkedIn and posting across social media. The biggest difference there is the support we've had. I mean, ALVA, ASVA have been huge supporters of us from the start, which we're super grateful for this year. We had AVEA come on board and help us. We've had AIM help us. We had ACE help us.Paul Marden: We had ASDC.Kelly Molson: ASDC. I mean there were just so many. I've got a huge list of all of the attractions and all of the kind of Hampshire's best attractions and these smaller regional attraction organisations that have supported Devon's top attractions. Without their support, we could not have done that, made that happen. So I guess what I'm asking for is continued support, please, would be great. And are there any other organisations out there that we should be talking to? And if there's any listening that haven't been involved in helping us distribute the survey this year, if you're up for it, give us a shout. I mean, the benefit to your members is phenomenal, right? What we produce for them and it's all free. It's all for free. Come and get it.Paul Marden: That is a nice segue because yes, it's all for free, but it doesn't cost nothing. And actually what we would also like help with is sponsorship for 2024. So if there are organisations around the listening public, as it were, that would be interested in supporting the work that we do on this and would like to influence and help guide what we do, then we would be really keen on talking to people that would like to sponsor and that sponsorship could be gifting kind. So some people might be able to help us by doing things with us. Some people might be able to help us by financially supporting the data analysis or the production of reports or production of specific analyses of a slice of the sector that is of interest to them.Paul Marden: There's lots of ways in which people could support the work that we do. And obviously the more support that we get, the bigger we can make this thing, because it is. I mean, it's a herculean task that you dreamt up two and a half, three years ago, isn't it? And you did the first one and it was amazing and you got a decent number of respondents and I think you were both amazed at the number of people that gave us data and downloaded the report and interacted with us. And then were blown away in 23. But we need to do more. There's a market for this. There's a value in what we're doing. It's not just chance. It wasn't a crackpot idea you had three years ago to do this.Kelly Molson: It was not a crackpot idea about it at all. No, it wasn't a crackpot idea. It's really nice, actually. You've just given me a really good flashback, actually. The Museum and Heritage Show has played like a part in this for years, actually, because the survey itself launched last year at the MandH. But the previous year I sat down at the MandH and had a chat with Bernard Donoghue about. I've got this idea, Bernard, and I think this is good. I think this would deliver some real good value to the sector. Would ALVA be happy to help get the word out and stuff? And that was where it started. So isn't that funny that's a connection? I'd forgotten all about that. It's not crackpot. It is amazing and I'm so happy that we've been able to produce this.Kelly Molson: The value that it delivers to the sector, I get. People tell me about the value. So this is not me going, it's definitely delivering value. The feedback that we've had has been so incredibly positive on it and it's just been wonderful to be part of that. So let's make next year's bigger and even better. But maybe some less questions so it doesn't take you as long.Paul Marden: Yes, more rows in my spreadsheet, less columns in my spreadsheet.Kelly Molson: Less time taken up. If you can do it over a cup of tea and a biscuit, then that's perfect, right?Paul Marden: I reckon so.Kelly Molson: Hopefully that's going to produce some good value today and we'll see you next time.Paul Marden: Cheers. Take care.Kelly Molson: Bye. Kelly Molson: Thanks for listening to Skip the Queue. If you've enjoyed this podcast, please leave us a five star review. It really helps others find us. And remember to follow us on Twitter for your chance to win the books that have been mentioned. Skip The Queue is brought to you by Rubber Cheese, a digital agency that builds remarkable systems and websites for attractions that helps them increase their visitor numbers. You can find show notes and transcriptions from this episode and more over on our website, rubbercheese.com/podcast. The 2023 Visitor Attraction Website Report is now LIVE! Dive into groundbreaking benchmarks for the industryGain a better understanding of how to achieve the highest conversion ratesExplore the "why" behind visitor attraction site performanceLearn the impact of website optimisation and visitor engagement on conversion ratesUncover key steps to enhance user experience for greater conversionsDownload the report now for invaluable insights and actionable recommendations!

In which the Mister and I do another 80s rewind and go way back and check out THE BLOB (1988), a remake of  the1958 sci fi/horror classic directed by Irvin Yeaworth and written by Kay Linaker and Theodore Simonson, from Irvine H. Millgate's story.  This film is directed by Chuck Russell from a script by Frank Darabont and Chuck Russell.  The film tells the story of Meg Penny (Shawnee Smith), who while out on a date with Paul (Donovan Leitch) comes across a man who's been injured and needs help.  The run into the local bad boy Brian (Kevin Dillion and his glorious mullet) and from there things go from bad to worse as an alien entity crash lands and starts wreaking havoc on the small time that's being overrun by this deadly predator while also being kept in the dark by shady government stooges who've come to contain this deadly entity for nefarious purpose.  Still a solid watch and absolute fun.  The film has a run time of 1 h and 35 m is rated R. Please note there are SPOILERS in this review. Opening intro music: GOAT by Wayne Jones, courtesy of YouTube Audio Library #PayTheWriters #WritersStrike #WritersStrike2023  #WritersGuild --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/jokagoge/support

Kris Millgate is our guest on the Outdoor Adventure Series today.Kris is an Emmy-nominated outdoor journalist, CEO of Tightline Media, and the mastermind behind the upcoming documentary "On Grizzly Ground." Get ready to embark on a thrilling journey through the Greater Yellowstone ecosystem as Kris shares the fascinating life and struggles of the iconic grizzly bear.TOPICS WE DISCUSSED  What led Kris to want to plan and produce this project? Why are Yellowstone Bears and their habitats so important? How do projects like On Grizzly Ground aid in maintaining access to wild places and preserving habitat for wildlife? What federal protections do grizzlies have through the Greater Yellowstone Ecosystem of Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming? How can the public contribute to preserving the natural world and protecting endangered species like Grizzly Bears? How does Kris' career as a journalist and storyteller contribute to raising awareness and connecting people with the natural world? What is the impact of projects like "On Grizzly Ground" and other outdoor documentaries in shaping people's perspectives and inspiring hope for the future of our environment?LEARN MORETo learn more about Kris and her work, visit her website at https://www.tightlinemedia.com/ or on these social sites:Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/TightLineMedia/Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/krismillgate/YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLf8kYb9yzmlLepftlISR8YDitPio96wz7LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kris-millgate-5b838a7/KRIS' BOOKSMy Place Among Beasts (2023) My Place Among Fish (2021)  My Place Among Men (2019) NEXT STEPSIf you enjoy podcasts devoted to the outdoor adventure space, find us online at https://outdooradventureseries.com. We welcome likes and comments, and if you know someone who is also an outdoor enthusiast, go ahead and share our site with them too.KEYWORDSGreater Yellowstone Ecosystem, Yellowstone National Park,  Grand Teton National Park,  Grizzly Bear, Tight Line Media, Kris Millgate, Toyota, Four Wheel Campers, Howard Fox, Outdoor Adventure Series #ongrizzlyground, #tightlinemedia, #drivetoyota, #fourwheelcampers #PodcastGuest #OutdoorAdventure #OWAA2023  #PodcastGuest #OutdoorAdventure #OWAA2023Podcast produced using DescriptPodcast hosted by BuzzsproutShow Notes powered by CastmagicWebsite powered by Podpage

Tight Line Media founder Kris Millgate is an avid outdoor enthusiast.

In this episode, Neil chats to founder and director of Starfish Marketing and The Star Room, Mell Millgate from Rutherglen in Victoria. Local Government Area: Indigo Website: www.starfishm.com.au This episode is proudly supported by our season sponsor - Nufarm. Australian Through and Through. Visit their web site at www.nufarm.com.au

On this episode, Kris Millgate, the driving force behind Tight Line Media, returns to update us from the field on her current project, On Grizzly Ground. Check Out Our Full Length Interview with Kris All Things Social Media Follow Kris on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube. Support the Show Shop on Amazon Become a Patreon Patron Subscribe to the Podcast or, Even Better, Download Our App Download our mobile app for free from the Apple App Store, the Google Play Store or the Amazon Android Store. Subscribe to the podcast in the podcatcher of your choice.

Gabby Millgate, Aussie Comedy Icon, star of Muriel's Wedding and Totally Full Frontal stops by and tells us all fun things the entertainment industry and how it all has prepared her to enter the world of early childhood education. DO NOT miss this one! #uncensoredradio#gabbymillgate#australiantv#murielswedding#totallyfullfrontal#interview#celebrity#comedy

Our biggest episode of the season with 3 guests covering off Newcastle Rugby League as well as mens & womens action from Newcastle & Hunter Rugby League as well as our regular Stats Man Performers of The Week! Give it a listen, give it a share!

On this episode, Kris Millgate, the driving force behind Tight Line Media, returns to update us from the field on her current project, On Grizzly Ground. Check Out Our Full Length Interview with Kris Check Out Kris's Montana Cattle Drive Video All Things Social Media Follow Kris on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube. Support the Show Shop on Amazon Become a Patreon Patron Subscribe to the Podcast or, Even Better, Download Our App Download our mobile app for free from the Apple App Store, the Google Play Store or the Amazon Android Store. Subscribe to the podcast in the podcatcher of your choice.

On this episode, I am joined by Kris Millgate, the driving force behind Tight Line Media.  We take a deep dive into her journey as an outdoor journalist and discuss her most recent award-winning film project, Ocean to Idaho. Check Out Ocean to Idaho Take Action for Bristol Bay Purchase My Place Among Fish All Things Social Media Follow Kris on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter and YouTube. Support the Show Shop on Amazon Become a Patreon Patron Subscribe to the Podcast or, Even Better, Download Our App Download our mobile app for free from the Apple App Store, the Google Play Store or the Amazon Android Store. Subscribe to the podcast in the podcatcher of your choice.

Josh Millgate is an airline pilot and contestant on the recent Australian Survivor series: Blood Vs Water. He played 46 days before he got voted off in 4th place. In this podcast we talked about Josh's journey into the piloting and survivor world. We talked about: Growing up and cracking into rugby league His culture and connections to New Zealand The ins and outs of flying a plane The best technique to land planes Getting to play Survivor alongside his cousin Jordan Behind the scenes of some of his big strategic moves The importance of family Discovering he was going to become a dad whilst on the show Living life without having regrets The go to takeaways Josh is an absolute legend, and he gets honest about his experiences in this episode. You don't want to miss it!

We're honored to welcome Josh Millgate from Survivor AU 7: Blood vs. Water to the podcast! We dive into Josh's preparation for the game, some of his best (and unaired) challenge moments, and his post-merge strategy leading to a great finish this season. We're big fans of Josh and hope to see him on a future season of Survivor AU! Make sure to show Josh some love by following him on Instagram (@jmillgate), and follow us on Instagram (@speakingllama) for updates on new episodes and to let us know your thoughts on Australian Survivor

Ryan chats with the latest eliminated player about Australian Survivor Blood v Water. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Success InSight Podcast. Today's episode is another addition to our Outdoor Adventure Series.The Outdoor Adventure Series celebrates individuals & families, businesses, and organizations that seek out and promote the exploration of the great outdoors. Our guest today is Kris Millgate.Kris is an outdoor journalist who covers outdoor and natural resource stories for print and video media outlets nationwide, including stores for PBS, USA Today, Field & Stream, and East Idaho Outdoors. She is also the founder of Tight Line Media. And she is working on a film and a book about salmon migration from the ocean to Idaho.Kris is a member of the Outdoor Writers Association of America, a life member of Trout Unlimited, an elementary school volunteer, and a former Idaho Falls Parks and Recreation commissioner. She is an avid fly fisher, ultra trail runner, and youth hockey coach. Her mission is to help humans form a stronger connection with the planet that sustains us. Check out Kris' first book, My Place Among Men, on Amazon Her second book, My Place Among Fish, is available for pre-order and will be published this August. Her documentary, Ocean to Idaho, will be premiering in August.To learn more about Kris, visit her website at https://www.tightlinemedia.com/You can also follow Kris on the following social sites:FacebookTwitterSuccess InSight is a production of Fox Coaching, Inc.

Hello everyone, and welcome back to the Success InSight Podcast. Today's episode is another addition to our Outdoor Adventure Series.The Outdoor Adventure Series celebrates individuals & families, businesses, and organizations that seek out and promote the exploration of the great outdoors. Our guest today is Kris Millgate.Kris is an outdoor journalist who covers outdoor and natural resource stories for print and video media outlets nationwide, including stores for PBS, USA Today, Field & Stream, and East Idaho Outdoors. She is also the founder of Tight Line Media. And she is working on a film and a book about salmon migration from the ocean to Idaho.Kris is a member of the Outdoor Writers Association of America, a life member of Trout Unlimited, an elementary school volunteer, and a former Idaho Falls Parks and Recreation commissioner. She is an avid fly fisher, ultra trail runner, and youth hockey coach. Her mission is to help humans form a stronger connection with the planet that sustains us. Check out Kris' first book, My Place Among Men, on Amazon Her second book, My Place Among Fish, is available for pre-order and will be published this August. Her documentary, Ocean to Idaho, will be premiering in August.To learn more about Kris, visit her website at https://www.tightlinemedia.com/You can also follow Kris on the following social sites:FacebookTwitterSuccess InSight is a production of Fox Coaching, Inc.

Kris spent a decade in TV news before starting Tight Line Media in 2006. Her first book, My Place Among Men, is available now and her most recent film Ocean to Idaho capturing the migration of thousands of salmon on their return from the Oregon coast to the Idaho wilderness premieres this Summer and you can see the trailer at tightlinemedia.com. Facebook Twitter Instagram   The Outdoor Biz Podcast   Please give us a rating and review HERE Show Notes Tightline Media Ocean to Idaho My Place Among Men OWAA Intro to Outdoors I grew up in Salt Lake City, Utah, the Wasatch mountains were my playground and I always felt comfortable outside. I didn't grow up hunting with my dad. I didn't grow up fishing with my dad. I grew up hiking with my dad. And my dad is forever lost. He doesn't have an internal compass. My mom says I don't have a danger gene, which is probably true, but my dad doesn't have an internal compass. And so we would wander endlessly and he would never admit he was lost. But, I found that by following his dusty frame down a little trail forever and ever, that I learned patience, persistence, resilience, and all those things helped me do my job today. I would just follow him when I was little. I didn't question if we were lost, but I knew darn well we were, and as I got older, I figured that out, but I still knew lost or not that I was comfortable outside. That's where I feel at home. Advice All right. So when it comes to the outdoor business, I have a pretty interesting take on it. And it comes from two and a half decades of watching our industry shift. And I'm just so impressed by what I see within our industry as things shift and what matters now, and the way to come at this business. If I were coming at it now would be to look at it from the user's perspective in every way. And that is because the way we value our natural resources has made a dramatic shift in the last century. And you can see it in the way that outdoor users lay out their expectations and those users are your customers. So a century ago we were, we were mining, logging. Resources to us were, what do we get out of them? What can they do for us with a dollar sign? Now, look at where we're at today. They're still mining, logging, drilling, developing a little bit of damming and all that still going on, but you know what? Now there's a seat at the table for that natural resource as it is. Natural resources hold a value for what they offer us as they are. Or in many cases that you see today as they will be, as they're put back together, that has a value. Now our natural resources hold, hold value beyond the dollar. And when your customers start realizing natural resources, hold value beyond the dollar, The way to connect to them is to also value those natural resources beyond the dollar. Favorite Book Oh the Places you'll Go by Dr. Seuss Favorite Outdoor Gear My favorite piece of outdoor gear pushes the hundred dollars mark, pretty hard, but I think it's still worth it. It's trail running shoes. So, I've tried different brands. And it just kind of depends on what kind. I think it all comes down to cushion. I used to run barefoot, so I'm a minimalist. Kris' Ask Stick your feet in the river, any river, the closest one you can get to. People say they don't have the access to the outdoors, but you know, don't you drink water and that water is coming from somewhere. It's fine. Find flowing water and stick your feet in it. It just makes that connection to our outdoor world. Connect with Kris: Tightline Media   09:18 - 09:23 Mon Teaser 01:43 - 02:38 Intro to Outdoors 41:18 - 43:09 Advice   Transcription Welcome to the outdoor biz podcast. Your home for inspiring conversations with outdoor insiders each week. Author speaker adventurer and outdoor industry veteran Rick Saez. Rick talks in depth with iconic brand founders, sales and marketing pros, product designers and industry rising stars. Listen in when Rick's guests offer actionable advice to land your ideal industry gig and grow your outdoor career. [00:00:27] Catch us again when the conversation shifts to the hottest outdoor products destinations and the latest industry insights. And now here's Rick episode, 256 of the outdoor biz podcast with Tightline media CEO. Chris Milkie brought to you this month by audible crisp in a decade and TV news before starting Tightline media in 2006. [00:00:50] Her first book, my place among men is available now at her most recent film ocean to Idaho capturing the migration of thousands of salmon on their return from the Oregon coast to the Idaho wilderness premieres. This summer, you can see the trailer@tightlinemedia.com. Welcome to the show, Chris. Thanks for having me. [00:01:06] Yeah. Good to chat with you this morning. What's happening in your world today? Uh, today the sun's out. We have snow on the ground, but, um, and it as we should, this time of year in Idaho, so yeah. We like that. That's a good thing. Yeah. That's a good thing. That means is there's a little moisture to fill the rivers again, as the cycle goes. [00:01:25] Yes. As it goes, we want those rivers full. Yeah. We need that hair too. I'm in Bishop and it's a pretty dry land of little rain as Mary Austin dubbed it. What, uh, what triggered your love for the outdoors and adventure that started at a young age? From what I can tell through your bio? I grew up in salt Lake city, Utah, the Wasatch mountains were my playground and I always felt comfortable outside. [00:01:53] And I recognized that at an early age and I, I didn't grow up hunting with my dad. I didn't grow up fishing with my dad. I grew up hiking with my dad. And my dad is forever lost. So when you like, yeah, that's a direction a right. Yeah. He doesn't have an internal compass. My mom says I don't have a danger gene, which is probably true, but my dad doesn't have an internal compass. [00:02:17] And so we would wander endlessly and he would never admit he was lost. But, uh, I found that by following his dusty frame down a little trail forever and ever. That I learned patience, persistence and resilience and resilience and all those things helped me do my job today. Yeah. But yeah, I would just follow them when I was little. [00:02:41] I did question if we were lost, but I knew darn well, we were, and I, as I got older, I figured that out, but I still. New last or not that I was comfortable outside. That's where I feel home. That's very cool. Do you have any, what did you get in any really major, uh, lost events like you had to spend the night or, you know, it took you all night to get home any of that kind of stuff? [00:03:02] Um, I think, well, as far as last goes, I kept, I don't remember. I was like needing a rescue now, uh, on a trail race recently they pulled the flags ahead of me and yes, I did get legitimately lost and it took. Uh, some, some people on the ground coming to find me, cause I went in the wrong direction, but when I was little and there was nothing serious like that, I do remember. [00:03:27] Hiking in the high you winters. And there was nobody there. And we came across in one day during one hike, um, this metal with about five bull moose laying down in it. And I've always remembered that thinking, this is it. This is like what you're going to see every time you hike. And that's not the case. [00:03:46] Right. But, you know, thank goodness he was lost. We saw amazing things and I have no idea of how to get to that spot now. And he probably doesn't either, but yeah, because we kind of wandered, we found some amazing places and in that same trip, we also got stuck in the pouring rain. And I remember throwing everything. [00:04:06] Into the truck soaking wet and leaving in the middle of the night because we were drowning lost you, you find some pretty cool stuff it's getting lost is not always a bad thing. Yeah. And so your bio also says, uh, you had a fear of men and beards talk a little bit about that. So I spent a lot of time hiking with my dad without that danger deem that my mom says I don't want to have. [00:04:35] My dad did not have a beard growing up. It was a clean shaven household, but I, uh, as long as I've been comfortable outside, I've always also been afraid of beards. It's just like being born left-handed I was born and as I got older, I kind of figured out why I was painfully shy and I didn't want to talk to anybody, but with a beard. [00:04:57] For sure. It was out of the question. Yeah. And now that I'm older and I've had time to kind of think through it, I've figured out what it is when I was younger, I studied people. I wanted to know what made them tick. What, what worked in there. Speaking of style. What did it do? You know? I knew I was going to be a storyteller and as a storyteller, I needed to be able to ask questions and get over being shy. [00:05:21] So I would study people. So when I was shy and I would look away because I didn't want you to look at me, I would still study you. And if you had a beard, I couldn't see your facial expressions. And so, uh, as a child, you have to realize what that means. Just like the kids that are dealing with faces that have masks over them. [00:05:39] Now, a beer to me was kind of like a mask and I couldn't read that person's character. I felt like they had something to hide because they were hiding under hair. And so that made me think that there was something hippy. No, no. I run around with beards in the woods all the time, and I realized that the beard does not determine the character, but when I was little, I thought they were hiding something with all that hair. [00:06:03] Yeah. When you're a little kid, it's interesting how you respond to some of the different, you know, looks or facial expressions too. Sometimes it just doesn't mean what you think it means. That's interesting. Yeah. Yeah. And so much of that is lost, you know, if we get into this pandemic and like, okay, we can make these adjustments, but. [00:06:19] Much lost in our face when we can not see half of it when we have a discussion. Yeah. Yeah. So much is lost. You see a lot in the eyes, but not all of it. You got to eat that whole face. Yeah. Have you tested how much you have to smile with a mask on before your eyes? It's ridiculous. Yeah. I find myself smiling a lot more to just a guy getting my eyes sparkle, you know, so people know I'm not mad at them. [00:06:42] Right. If you were to take that mask off, it's a goofy grin. Right. Fully showing exactly what it to meet your eyes. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You have to put a big old smile on that's, right? Yeah. Yeah. How did your writing career get started? Did that start at a young age? Yes, I started writing. Um, yeah, I remember even in elementary school I could always write, I like English. [00:07:03] I understood sentence structure. I understood what worked and how to break it apart and make it work even better. And then through junior high and high school that kind of carried through and you take that test in high school that says here's what you should be when you grow up. Right. And of course, mine said communicator, and of course, Everyone laughed at that. [00:07:20] How was the shy girl going to be a reporter? That's ridiculous. Yeah, but I knew what I was going to be. And I was going to figure out how to get over all my quirks and had to be a storyteller. So I knew my major when I went to college, it was broadcast journalism. I was going to tell you stories on TV and the 10 o'clock news. [00:07:41] And I never, I never wavered from that. I could always write. And that was my strong point. I learned to shoot. I learned to read script in a voice that sounds like we're talking and not reading or there's all these little nuances to it. Yeah. And then I worked for TV stations for a decade, one TV station, another around the country. [00:08:00] And the whole point was to get to a bigger market. And, you know, I came from salt Lake city. That's a big TV market. I wanted to get back there. Yeah. And then as I moved around, well, you know, my job was great, but my lifestyle sucked and I worked at 11 o'clock at night and yeah. You know, my husband didn't like in us, some of the places that we live. [00:08:18] And so right about the time that the internet was, you know, born, I realized all the mediums were going to mesh. And so after 10 years of TV contracts, I went freelance. And what that did for me was instead of just working for one TV station, I could work for all of them. And I could work for newspaper magazine, radio, web. [00:08:42] I could work for all of them. Because I could always write, I could write for any medium and because I could shoot, I knew how to frame up a shot for video ads for photo and what needed. I understood the specs for laying it out in paper versus on screen. And so everything kind of translated really well for me. [00:09:03] But the basic was, I always knew how to write. I have an obsession with words I'm terrible with numbers. Don't make me do math, but I can write you an essay all day long. And I'm always playing with words in my head. And so, uh, my brother and sister always teach me that I have my own alphabet and I have, since I was little. [00:09:24] So that's kind of been my saving grace, where I could always write about anything for any medium. And that has kind of evolved into where I'm at now with Tightline media as a freelancer fortunate too, that you you'd recognize that early on. I mean, that's huge too, to know that. Yeah. What inspired you to pick up a camera? [00:09:43] The inspiration for picking up the camera came. When I realized that while I had all of these words and I could put them in perfect order, there was a visual component. I wanted to see what went with those words. And that's why I chose the video TV medium. When I did right from the get-go video is my base. [00:10:00] That's my primary world. And when you see nowadays, there's a lot of films with a lot of slow-mo in them. I think the reason we're seeing that slow Mo happen in film is because you have a lot of still photographers shooting videos, and they're shooting those videos with a still camera. And they're used to thinking in a single frame of still interesting. [00:10:22] And I come from the brain, that's used to seeing action and I want things to happen in real time. And we don't move in slow mode. So rarely will I put Mo in my videos. Right. And then. Having that base of video be my world. It was a pretty easy transition to learn how to shoot photo I've shot video for twenty-five years, I've shot photo for 15. [00:10:47] And I had, I had no problem taking a class from a professional pre-talk photographer to teach me how to use my camera in manual mode versus auto mode and the class wasn't about framing. I already knew how to frame up subjects and what, how to tell that story. It was about how to use the. Different apertures and shutter speeds. [00:11:07] Yeah. You know, some of that translates between a video camera photo, but not everything. Yeah. Yeah. So I picked that up, but I've always wanted to see what you were showing me and what that means in a story is on video. You know, that the guy that I'm in the fishing boat with is wearing a blue jacket. When I write that for a newspaper or magazine, I have to tell you he's in a blue jacket. [00:11:28] Right? So the writing style is a little different. That's interesting that you picked up on that visual. Where do you think, what do you think triggered that? Is it just the actual experience you had it in telecom? I think that I chose the visual medium right out of the gate, because I've always been. [00:11:46] Obscenely aware of what's going on around me. And I knew at a young age back clear back when I was studying faces that I had that visual, a desire to see what's going on versus spell it out. I've always liked to write, but I didn't want to have to always spell out everything. I wanted you to see it right. [00:12:06] And I can see that in my own kids. Now, you know, when our, when our boys turned 12, they each get a trip with me when they turn 18, they get a trip with my husband. So. When the oldest one turned 12, he chose San Francisco because our boys play hockey and he wanted it to see the black Hawks play the sharks and San Jose. [00:12:26] And we stayed, we stayed in downtown San Francisco in the financial district and he looked just like you and I was little, we walked around downtown. And when you're in a big city, people put on blinders. They don't look at the time. He was probably gobsmacked by all that. It blew him away. And I think that's one of the reasons we do these trips. [00:12:44] We live in Idaho falls. It's pretty small. I want them to be exposed to all different kinds of lifestyles. Right. And you have to go to a different city to get that. And so he was blown away by what he saw. And he said on the first day he said, mom, There's no one looks at each other. There's cement everywhere. [00:13:06] And the only bird I've seen as a pigeon. And so he, I can see that that was totally me. When I was little. I was really aware of how people were not connected with each other and not connected with the world around them. Yeah. Yeah. Still, still to this day, even more so maybe in some places. Yeah. Yeah. And so that's, that's how I was when I was a little and it's really neat to see that in my kids. [00:13:29] That's very cool. Yeah. Where does your entrepreneurial spirit come from? Are there entrepreneurs in your family that I don't have a danger gene, but I might have a crazy gene. What it is. I will say this. Um, my father is. By far the proudest workaholic I've ever known. And I pick up my workaholic, workaholic tendencies from him. [00:13:56] What did he do? Um, he is, uh, you'll love this. My father is an architect, but of a very specific genre. If you walk into a building with my father, he will always look up. And he always looks up because he's looking for the sprinkler heads. Okay. Gotcha. My dad makes sure your building doesn't burn down. [00:14:17] That's good. Yes. And, um, there were several times growing up, we had it, he had a dad in our basement and time and time again, he would start businesses on his own and try to have his own business of sprinkled fire, sprinkler design over and over and over again. And I remember growing up with that. And so when I decided to go freelance, I honestly, I was really hesitant to start tightlining media because my dad had tried so many times to start and I did not want my family relying on me and then me not being able to really start. [00:14:56] And so to be at the, be at the Mark where Tightline media is turning 16 years old. Yeah, I had made it through the recession and the pandemic by the skin of my teeth sometimes, but, but, um, that's significant to me and I also think it's significant to my father. Uh, but I'll bet. Yeah, you started then you're and you're, you know, you haven't finished yet, but you're still going there. [00:15:20] I mean, you got it off the ground. That's I can relate to that with, we talked about this before we turned the mic on about the podcast. I mean, it's in my, I get mine from my grandfather. Same thing. He started, he was always Twinkie, you know? Tinkering with ideas and started this and started that so I can totally relate. [00:15:36] Yep. That's where it is. Interesting. And so tell our listeners about what we've talked a little bit about your TV news career. What did you like most about that? Oh, the storytelling, what I like most about TB was the storytelling, but in TV news, um, I had to learn, I had to learn early on that I needed to create an instant rapport with strangers. [00:15:59] Yeah. You have to have a rapport with somebody before they will talk to you. And if you don't know them, I mean, I'm meeting people, new people every day, and I've got to do a story for live, live story for the five o'clock six o'clock, 10 o'clock, and there's gotta be at least two interviews in that story. [00:16:15] That's six new people a day that I had to develop an instant rapport with and get them to tell me their secret, that easy, you know? And so I liked, uh, I can, I'm intrigued by challenge. I think. That's something that becomes pretty obvious in me. When you talk to me about my work, when you look at my stories, I'm pretty obsessive about what I do and I can, are you out with my, uh, overeager sense of being when it comes to covering the outdoors and doing it in a proper, proper storytelling manner? [00:16:50] And so the idea that I could tell a story. And frankly, tell that story in two minutes, because of a newscast it's gotta be within two minutes, pretty phenomenal. So you don't waste words, you get right to the point. Yeah. That's a great skill. So even when a magazine will say, we need you to write a thousand words, that's a lot. [00:17:10] And a book, 50,000 words, that's a lifetime to me. And when I come from a world of two minutes news, I'm not going to waste any words. So even if you put me on a thousand word magazine story or a 50,000 word book, every single word has purpose in there. There's no fluff because I come from two minutes of news where you did an add any extra fluff. [00:17:35] So do you think it's harder for you to write, like in those big, long magazine articles and books and stuff because of that, or you just have to work harder to, you know, make it a detailed story? I find that writing, um, length longer than 500 words is harder for me. And I know why it's harder. It's because I come from where you did quick, fast turns. [00:17:58] Yeah. You shot at wrote edited the same day, probably within a two to four hour timeframe. And I'm used to that pace. It's hard to get me to slow down and work at a longer pace. Uh, even while magazines that might have, like, you know, they're planning a year out right now. Yeah. If you give me an assignment right now, I want to work on it right now. [00:18:20] I don't want to work on it in may or an August issue. Right. So I've had to learn to pace myself a little better. And I think that's been a good thing to learn because as I've learned to pace myself, I've also learned to tolerate the pieces. And there is no doubt that was in a lengthy piece. You are a stronger writer because you add to it things that you can not fit into many [00:18:47] Yeah. Yeah. I was going to say, yeah, the story is more important because you put more detail in it. You don't just put fluff in it. It's, it's relevant, very relevant to the story. Whereas a lot of people write these things. It's like, well, you could have said that in three words, you know? So when I wrote my place upon bed, I sent him my first draft and it was 15 one, five, 15,000 words. [00:19:10] Oh, I'm spent, that's like the most I've ever written because the Austin, my editor cut that in half, sent me back. 8,000 words said not good enough. Dig deeper. Yeah. And I had no idea that I had deeper in me, but I did. And it strengthened my writing to a whole new level. That was so obvious that the year my book came out, which was last year, um, all the outlets that I was working for, we said, wow, Your writing has advanced so much. [00:19:43] And I knew exactly why it's because I had to push to reach 50,000 words and make every single word count. And then your writing goals to a whole new level, when you have to meet that type of challenge, and it shows up in all your other work. Yeah, boy, it sticks with it. Yeah. Once you do that, I'll bet he wrote everything. [00:20:01] You're right. Yeah. Well, good on the editor. That was awesome. [00:20:06] So I can take a criticism and then I just suck it up and move on with it, but we'll do it dig in. Yeah, I hear you. Yeah. We're willing to do that in the show notes. That's I look forward to getting that book. Sounds like a great story. Is your time in TV? The inspiration behind Tightline media is that where that came from? [00:20:23] My timing TB was. In a roundabout way and inspiration for Tightline media working, um, you know, about two years at a time under contract for one station or another, I worked for every station, but CBS that's kinda just how it worked out. And so, um, you, you learn a lot about the industry. You work in small markets where you have to do every job from running the teleprompter to editing your own stories, to whatever happens. [00:20:50] It has to happen up by you because small markets, that's how it goes in bigger markets. Everyone fights about who has to do what, because no one wants to do anything. And so that was weird to me. I just wanted to work. I just wanted to tell stories and yeah. And TV. I had to cover crops and crime and whatever else was on the police scanner for the day or down at city hall. [00:21:10] And, uh, I would, I know that from the very beginning, I was always shoving outdoor stories into people's TVs. There was not an outdoor beat, but I wanted there to be. And I know that those stories mattered. It doesn't matter if you hike, bike, hunt, fish, whatever it is you do outside. The reason that opportunity exists is because something's going on, that's conserving our natural resources to the lab to make it so that you can recreate. [00:21:37] And so those stories really matter to me. So I would shove them in your TV anyway, under, and I'd figure out how to make them the top story of the night. It was some kind of news hitch. So by the time I decided to go freelance, Yes. I knew video was going to be my base, but instead of being general assignment, I niched out 95% of what I do is outdoor related. [00:21:59] And that's a conscious decision when I went freelance. It was because I didn't want to cover crops in crime anymore. Yeah. Those still come into my stories. You know, if we've got crime, it's used to poaching wildlife trafficking crops, certainly that matters. We've got deer running through corn fields, right. [00:22:15] So. Those elements still matter. And I liked having to learn how to cover every possible beat. But I wanted to really hit the outdoors. So I, I niched down to that when I started testing. That's pretty smart. That's pretty smart. Yeah. That's uh, they say the riches are in the niches, so it's, you know, I haven't experienced that yet, but it's coming. [00:22:37] I don't think I've experienced it either, but if I wanted to make a lot of money, I would, I had a fatter wallet if I'd had done something else. Well, yeah, we're, we're on the outdoors because we love it. That's for sure. [00:22:51] The flexibility of my lifestyle. Yeah. The opportunity for fresh air that, that you can't be placed with just a fatter wallet. If I have a bad day and I start to gripe, my husband will just quickly say, you know what? We can shove you back in a cubicle. Do you want to do that? Find that there's problems. [00:23:11] Yeah. Yeah. That's, that's a, that's a good thing about the outdoors. We can just go out and blow off some steam and. See everything and anything we want to see. Yeah. And I, but I do think there's a, on the flip side of that, everyone thinks it's just fun and glamorous to work outside. I'm telling you right now, a 15 hour day in a wildfire where my nose bleeds all day and hundreds of miles from decent food and a bathroom. [00:23:35] Those are not glamorous days. Right. And there's a lot of work that goes into those shots. You know, the guy that's fishing, he's having a great day of play. Me trying to shoot footage of him. Fishing is not play. It is work. Yeah, no, it is. It's all work. I think that's the thing that we all, whatever you chose choose to do as a vocation, there are going to be parts of it that are work. [00:23:55] I don't care how much fun most of it is. You know, I, I have two degrees in recreation and, you know, made a choice early on to make the outdoors, my vocation. But there are days when is your sales guy or you're a product guy or whatever that they're, it's work and just the nature of the beast, I think. Yeah. [00:24:13] And I think that there's a real tendency by people that want to especially get into the outdoor work that will do it for nothing. And I worry about that because this isn't a hobby for me. This is how I feed my family. And I have to make money or I have to do something else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. There was a lot of that. [00:24:32] People are selling their services for lower amounts and I think that they are doing it, the service through a lot, a lot of the outdoor pros. And eventually they're going to find out that, you know, there. There is they're going to come to a point where they're not going to go to that lowest bidder because they want to make some money too. [00:24:47] So it's you muzzle start out making a decent, you know, charging a decent amount so you can continue, but that could be a whole nother. Maybe that should be a whole nother episode. Actually. That's a good one. That leaves a good one. Then I think a lot of the reason you'll see that under cutting of. Value across the industry is people are doing this on the side of some off of other office jobs. [00:25:08] Yeah. Or they just want to break into it and they think that's the way to do it. Yeah. Yes, yes. You know, I helped mentor my neighbor's grandson. She came over to the day and she was so excited and she's like, he graduated, he's out of college and he's writing for this newspaper and I'm so glad you helped him. [00:25:23] And I said, Oh, I'm so happy to hear that. I'd love it. And she said, yeah, he's getting paid in beer. I said, Oh no, that's not how this goes down. He is not going to be able to feed his family on beer and the beer is going to wear out, you know, pretty quickly. Yup. Yup. Beer and gear. You can't, you can't make, make a living and feed your face beard gear. [00:25:44] So yeah, you need dollars in there somewhere. Folks. We're going to take a little break, give some love to our sponsor. Hey, do you love to read, but don't always have the time to sit down with a good book on the same. And sometimes I just feel like having someone else tell the story. Well, if you use audible, then you know, if not you're missing out, it's like having a library in your phone. [00:26:04] And I use it a lot. Auto helps a mile slot by when I'm on the road. As I'm enjoying great books I discover or recommended by friends. Get your free audio book, download and a 30 day free trial@audibletrial.com slash the outdoor biz podcast. There are over 180,000 titles to choose from. Go to audible trial.com/the outcrop is podcast and start your free 30 day trial with audible today. [00:26:26] And now back to the show. So he talked a little bit about your new film ocean to Idaho. I saw the trailer this morning. That looks pretty cool. Oh, I'm glad you saw the trailer. I it's very likely you're the first person to see it because I just finished it. It's kind of coming. Like everyone is going to learn soon that it's out. [00:26:45] So I'd love that you got to see it. Um, okay. So the, that comes out in 2021 is ocean to Idaho and it follows salmon migration from the Oregon coast to the Idaho wilderness and the magic behind all that actually started. In early 2020 when I went on the road to follow that migration route. So it's a multi-year project and that's an unusual for me to spread something out like this. [00:27:12] But I wanted one year where I actually shocked that migration is how it had to be done. And then the next year is when it comes out. Because by the time the migration is done, we're into snow and people don't want to watch. Something like that. And they want, I want them to watch this story when the salmon are moving through the area again, and it's the longest piece I've ever edited for videos. [00:27:35] So it's, it's quite a crunch on time, but the reason so many people know about ocean to Idaho already a year in advance is because I let them follow me virtually on the road trip. Smart. Good, good. Yeah. And so everybody was at home. You know, I knew this was what I was going to do. I said, I'm going to follow salmon migration from the ocean to Idaho. [00:27:57] I said that October, 2019, by March of 2020, my plans were down the drain. And I said, I'm going to follow the salmon migration from the ocean to Idaho. That Dennett be damned. And so what I had to do was dump all my plans and figure out how to follow these fish because we were not moving, but the fish still work. [00:28:18] Right. And I wanted to follow them safely and responsibly. And that meant living out of a truck and a camper all summer, following the migration route through Oregon, Washington and Idaho. Did you do that? Solo solo all by myself, I had masks. I had a temperature chart. I had to take my temperatures for several weeks in advance before I even stepped foot in Oregon. [00:28:44] And. Um, I started following the migration in June and I've finished with the last few dozen Chinook salmon that make it to mile 850 in central Idaho wilderness in September. Wow, very cool. And it was, it was, uh, alone. There is one stretch within that 850 miles. That is all wilderness and there's no road. [00:29:07] The only way to navigate that as a raft. And I, I navigated on a raft because somebody that I know in Idaho picked up a permit because everyone from out of town could come use the tags they drawn. Yeah. And so there was that 80 mile stretch of the 850 mile route when I wasn't alone because my family was with me and we run a raft with other families on their rafts and we did whitewater rafting through that wilderness stretch. [00:29:33] Well, that's cool. Other than that I was alone. And, um, I shoot with five cameras and I shot the five cameras by myself. I lived out of a Toyota Tundra and a four wheel camper on top of that. I had to learn how to run everything in one day and when everything kind of fell into place and I said, I'm going, and I'm going to have to do it in a way that isolates me. [00:29:58] Toyota stepped in with, with wheels, but will camper stepped in with the house on top of the wheels? And I knew I was going to go and I just, yeah. Needed somewhere safe to keep me and my gear and to isolate no one was allowed inside my camper or my truck and I wasn't with anybody unless I was interviewing them. [00:30:19] And then they were six feet away. I was totally self-contained. I didn't go into any, that's a story right there. And it's in and of itself. Are you going to tell her how you're going to tell that story or is that part of the film? That's that's a great question. Is that, do I tell that story in the film or not? [00:30:34] And right now, Here's where I'm at, letting people virtually follow me while they were stuck at home. During the pandemic really caught fire people really liked seeing what was going on in the world. Through someone who has to cover it accurately and fairly. And yeah, I don't, I don't paint it pretty. This is what's happening. [00:30:59] Yeah. Yeah. Well, we all like to live vicariously through others sometimes. So that was, yeah, I think during the pandemic that people really attached to that. And so I quickly took that road trip and morphed it into what became a kind of its own standing identity. There's this whole library of episodes and they came out twice a week. [00:31:20] People watched. I had a biomarker for miles zero to eight 50. And I'd say we're at this mile. Marker. Here's why we're here. This is the first of eight down. That's why we're right here. And then that would be on Thursday and on Tuesday it was behind the scenes. Here's my temperature chart. Here's my masks. [00:31:39] Here's what happens with my camera breaks. Here's what happens when I fall out of my camper and. You know, here's what happened. This is why my face is taped up on camera at the end. It's cause I have stitches in my face and know that got to like live all that with me. That you can't plan that. No, that's, that's, that's a story too. [00:31:57] That's a film too. That's I think my thing. So, so I've made all those episodes and people kind of seem to like the idea of binge-watching those now that they're all together. So that's fun. Yeah. But when I started to edit the film and I had 25 hours of footage, And I needed to fit it into a 26 minutes show. [00:32:15] It takes some serious prioritizing. And as a journalist in the truest sense of the word, there is no I story  perspective. Yeah. Yeah. And it's all about every person I have. Every person along that migration route and what that water means to them. And what's going on here that helps fish what's going on here. [00:32:38] That hurts fish. You have to involve all looks perspectives. I wanted everyone's perspective in this issue and I took it as my responsibility to cover it fairly accurately balanced. You know, you start talking about dams, should they stay or should they go, you damn well, better get both sides of that story. [00:32:59] So I decided in the film itself, I pulled myself out of it as a personality. And it's strictly coming from the perspective of everyone that lives along the migration route. And then I'm going to create a director's cut that, pulls it out and says, Oh yeah, here's the spot where. I broke my camera. This is what happened that day. [00:33:22] Right. And here, Oh, let me tell you about these, you know, this part here I showed up. At mile eight 50 was stitches Haggard. Yeah. God, I can't imagine. Yeah. Yeah. I think that'd be a good story right there too though. I think there's a lot of people that like to know, you know, the behind the scenes and that just got verified validated by all the people that followed you. [00:33:42] Yeah. And I think, you know, it's pretty uncomfortable to watch yourself fall apart as you're watching this fall apart. And at the end, the fish died and I didn't. And so now I have to decide how all that gets to roll out. The film itself won't have me in it, but the director's cut. Well, the road trip episodes definitely have in them. [00:34:03] Wait to see it. We'll link to that in the show notes too. It's called ocean to Idaho and there's a trailer there. That sounds super fun. I'm looking forward to that. Yeah. I got to go to the bank film festival a few times, um, back when I was with Eagle Creek and it just, all those kinds of films that you're talking about, and I really was inspired. [00:34:20] Not only by the film, but then some of the backstories when you got to go back and talk to the, the director and the filmmaker. And so I think there's, there's an opportunity to do both of those things. Yeah. Yeah. I'd agree. And I think even more so now the one thing that social media has done is it has changed the expectations on the audience's side. [00:34:38] Yeah. Yeah. You know what I was in news, I could do a live shot at 10 o'clock and tell you what happened on the TV screen. And you would watch me in your living room, but you couldn't tell me anything. You could call the district. If you wanted to complain or say, I need to know something else about this, but with social media, you can actually connect with that person more. [00:34:57] And so your expectation grows. You want a more personal connection with that journalist. Yeah. And I realize now that that, you know, halfway through my career, That was a significant shift and I needed to be open to the idea that people wanted to know what it was like to cover this story and not just know the story. [00:35:15] They're more advanced now. They want more than just the story they want the backstory. Yeah. I think they've realized they can get it now. Right back in the day they couldn't get it. They had no way. Well, I shouldn't say no way, but very few ways to reach out to the producers and the filmmakers. But now, like you say, it's just, it's right there. [00:35:32] It's on social media. Just call them up, you know, send him an email, you know, whatever it might be. Yeah. Do you have any desire to make a feature length film? Do I have any desire to make a feature length film? I thought hard about this question for a long time. Uh, you know what I mean? When I say I come from two-minute news, the longer things get. [00:35:54] The more of a lifetime, they feel, but they also, the challenge intrigues me. Uh, of adding lanes. I honestly didn't think I could pull off a book. I do not have the attention span to sit down that long, but honestly, I broke my leg in three places, coaching kid hockey, and I was on the couch for four months growing bone around a rod. [00:36:22] And I had to sit down, I was on drugs that made my muscles hold still. And so. You can crank out a pretty decent chunk of word count when you have to do that. Yes, you can. Now I don't want to do that to create a feature film, but, uh, 26 minutes for ocean to Idaho will be the longest. I have ever produced. [00:36:43] When I produce shows Freido public TV, they are for a half hour format, which is 26 minutes. Most of my other films have hovered around the 10 minute Mark, you know, uh, on the internet. Shoot. I still turn out two minutes movies. Yeah. That's what people want to watch then all the time. Yeah. But you know, as we talked about the audience expectation growing, I think that when someone says that they're going to make a feature film. [00:37:08] Your first instinct is to think, well, no, one's going to watch that it's too long. But think of the other side of that, our audiences education level and expectation level is growing. You know, they will sit down for it. Even if it's long is good enough. Well, they will. And they do. I mean, look at the explosion of Netflix and Amazon prime video and all these places, YouTube, where we watch all these things, especially now in the pandemic. [00:37:31] But even before the pandemic people, I think they liked the story part of it. Like I was saying about the, the backstory, the director's cut, if you will, of, of ocean to Idaho, that's going to be a phenomenal story. That could be an interesting film. Yeah. And I think that there's the, the intrigue of a feature film. [00:37:51] But I think it's only there for me now because I've grown into it. Yeah. There was no way back when I was doing two-minute news that I could have seriously considered a feature film. And now I've cranked out 50,000 words for a book. So Hey, maybe feature film might be the next lane. There you go, folks. [00:38:11] You heard it here? Well, let's sit with the 26 minutes. I haven't come out yet. Yeah. Let's see how that goes. Yeah. And one thing at a time. Yeah. Okay. Let's get back to some other questions. Um, so you, you do a lot of outdoor activities. Do you have a favorite, favorite outdoor activity? Something that you, and when you're not filming, when you just need to go out with the kids or just blow off some steam, do you go fishing to go hiking? [00:38:37] What do you do? Fly Fisher. I am a trail runner. I am a rafter, a hiker, a biker. I'm all those do it all. Yeah. Yeah. If I get a day off and um, I want to get out, it's not so much about what I'm doing. It's where I'm doing it. That's what matters to me. The farther away, the more rewrote mode it is, the more enticing it is to me. [00:39:05] And I think you. Even if I'm there like a high mountain Lake, you're not going to catch a big five-pound lunker and you're going to work your butt off to get up there and you're going to catch maybe something as long as your hands. Yeah. But that fishing to me is so much more rewarding because I worked so hard to get to it. [00:39:21] And there's nobody else around. Yeah. I tend to do okay. Farther away. And Trevor means the same way. I'm an ultra. So I run distance. And man, you get me back in there on the continental divide, which is deep wilderness in the Idaho Montana borders. Uh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna really feel like I'm in my element because no one's around me. [00:39:42] Whereas other runners, particularly women, they feel more comfortable running where there's people. Well, I feel better running my there's no people. Yeah, I'm the same way. I, I, I do better when there's, I mean, I've been this way. My parents have, since I was a kid, I don't talk to anybody. I don't always play by myself. [00:39:59] I still do that. I still find that I would much like Bishop. There's a bunch of places that I can go fishing, but I don't like to go there cause there's, you know, you gotta find an open piece of water. I want to go somewhere where I can just go fish and, uh, or hike or whatever it is. So it's interesting. I never heard it put that way though, but that's. [00:40:17] Crystallizes it for me too. Yeah. Yeah. You'll see. You'll see me doing any of those activities. Yeah. Uh, I, I work in the hike and bike world and the hook and bullet world. So I've got to be pretty versatile for all of it. Um, and my kids have been exposed to all of us. They're little river rats. They, the ones that heck of a runner, he is so much faster than me now, but I can go farther than him. [00:40:40] So there you go. That's good. Yeah. So, uh, let's shift gears a little bit here. Do you have any suggestions or advice for folks wanting to get into the outdoor biz or grow their career or the filmmaking biz? Ooh, which one do you want to hit? Outdoor? Um, let's do outdoor height. Let's stick with outdoor. [00:40:58] Cause that's pretty much what I ask everybody. And do you want to get into outdoor outdoor as a business? Well, yeah, outdoors of business. I mean, I think outdoor, I think a lot of folks, you know, that listen to this show, they listened for the stories, but they also either are in the business or looking to get in the business and, yeah. [00:41:18] All right. So when it comes to the outdoor business, I have a pretty interesting take on it. And it comes from two and a half decades of watching our industry shift. And I'm just so impressed by what I see within our industry as things shift and what matters now, and the way to come at this business. If I were coming at it now would be to look at it from the user's perspective in every. [00:41:51] And every way, and that is because the way we value our natural resources has made a dramatic shift in the last century. And you can see it in the way that outdoor users lay out their expectations and those users are your customers. So a century ago we were, we were mining, logging. It's really pretty cavalier about the other space. [00:42:20] Yeah. Sources to us were, what do we get out of them? What can they do for us with a dollar sign? Now, look at where we're at today. Yes. They're still mining, logging, drilling, developing a little bit of damning and all that still going on, but you know what? Now there's a seat at the table for that natural resource as it is. [00:42:40] Yeah. Natural resources hold a value for what they offer us as they are. Or in many cases that you see today as they will be, as they're put back together, that has a value. Now our natural resources hold, hold value beyond dollar. And when your customers start realizing natural resources, hold value beyond dollar. [00:43:03] The way to connect to them is to also value those natural resources beyond dollar. I like it. Yeah. That's a good point. And that's a good thing. As we, as the world gets more populated and you know, these places get more crowded, it becomes more important to think about those things. I think. Yeah. You know, it was amazing to me. [00:43:23] I don't live very far from the DMV in Idaho falls, Idaho, and, um, It's downtown. Everyone passes by downtown, but it was amazing to me to see how many out-of-state plates were in the parking lot of the DMB, getting licenses for Idaho during the pandemic, California, Texas, Colorado. Plates from everywhere coming here. [00:43:44] And I live about an hour and a half from Yellowstone. So we already get an influx of travelers, but the people, the, the travel, you see the people on the river and they're usually tourists and they stop and they visit, and then they moved to Yellowstone. But the people in the parking lot at the division of motor vehicles, all those out-of-state plates were coming to stay. [00:44:03] Yeah. And so, yeah, you're starting to see that push there's that, you know, the animals. Start to shift with climate change. There's that whole shift in the migration routes is the temperature shifts. But you're also seeing with humanity, they're pushing into places that have space to have resources. Yeah. [00:44:23] You're starting to see that. And even if people don't realize that's what's going on and that's what it is, they're pushing them to safer places to be. Yeah. Yeah. With more space. Yeah. I think you're right. And people are leaving in the country too. Yeah, that's a, we see it up here. In Bishop, but more from a recreation perspective because the land is all pretty much owned. [00:44:41] You can't, there's no, you know, they're not going to build more. The city and Bishop can't get a lot bigger because the land is around them as already owned by department of water, power and, and other folks. So that can't happen. But, um, you see them out here recreating. That's interesting though. I never thought of that. [00:44:57] I never, you know, I haven't been to a small town. Like Idaho falls. So that makes sense though, because you've read about it in the news and people are talking about it all over. People are looking to leave the country, leave the state. I mean, they're itching to get out of California because it's crowded and you know, the, whether you believe or support the politics or not, it's just weird. [00:45:15] So yeah. You know, you see all those, the devastating wildfires in California, you may want to run away from that. Right. Well, when you get a fire of that size in Idaho, wilderness, no one lives there, right? Yeah. It's it's it's, uh, I mean, it's fired a grand scale and I happen to more places in California. The problem in California is that people live there and hopefully it won't, it won't impact. [00:45:40] I'd hope people will not miss more people go there. We gotta make sure that we don't let them live there. They shouldn't live there in my opinion, because it's a tricky thing. Yeah. It's tough. So, but, but, so he's got to call it right. Someone's got to say, no, we can't do this. You know, and we let him, we have these big fires in California and then. [00:45:58] The burns all these places now that we rebuild them right. Where they were. And it happens again, it's like same thing on Florida with flooding, same thing. You're not supposed to build in this zone. Don't rebuild in this. Don't you think that would make sense, but you know what, someone's home. It gets crazy. [00:46:14] I get it. It's their home. Yeah, you're right. And some of these places in these, in these, you know, remote towns and stuff, people have lived there for hundreds of years. So it's in their ancestors home, you know, I saw a bumper sticker the other day, uh, you know, the whole, it was the shape of Idaho, the state with the pan handle. [00:46:34] And it said fr we're full. A lot of folks are saying that, yeah, a lot of folks are saying that as California. And so, you know, I mean, the world said that the U S and the pandemic, they don't want us, you know, coming in. So they. Wouldn't accept passports. And I'm sure States are saying that to you for the same reason, similar reasons. [00:46:53] Anyway. Yeah. It's definitely going to make things interesting. And there's so much that has shifted lifestyle wise because there's a lot that people aren't seeing yet. And that's one of the things I think people aren't really quite seeing. Yeah. Not just visiting the river and the trails as they pass through there at the DMV getting a license, they're staying right. [00:47:16] That's going to be a different farm. Yeah. Um, how about favorite books? Do you have any favorite books or do you have a book? You give us gifts, your book? Of course, I give my book a lot. I find that writing a book puts you in this whole new realm. My place in my man is decades of the most dynamic. News stories I've covered with my perspective added to it. [00:47:39] And so I know that people like to read that. So when you read my place among men, you're reading a legitimate news story with the perspective put into it, that shows you what it's like to be in that moment. Right. And that can apply to every age, race, gender. And so people are really, I mean, I've got 12 year old, little hockey kids reading it, and I've got my neighbor that's 85 reading it. [00:47:58] So it's cool that, that matters. And if you can make a book like that, I'm drawn to those, but you know, an editor's going to tell you that that's not the best way to write if you niche down and it sells better, I'm already in it's down. Cause I'm in the outdoors. So there's some of that. If I have to pick, you know, if I'm going to pick a book that I want to give to someone, honestly, it's not a classic novel style book. [00:48:25] It's a book that fits more to my two minute attention span. And that's all the places you'll go by Dr. Seuss. Oh, cool. I love it. That's a good one. Yeah. I loved the way he plays with words. I love the way he breaks all the rules on what we think, things look like and sound like, and that he does it in about two minutes. [00:48:46] He was an amazing writer. I mean, you know, to a P to get a little kid, to sit down and write a book like that. And then even adults, like you say, some of those books, you read them as adults. Like, ah, never S I never read that before. You know, I never interpreted that way before. That's cool. How about your favorite piece of outdoor gear? [00:49:03] Under a hundred dollars. My favorite piece of outdoor gear pushes the a hundred dollars Mark, pretty hard, but I think it's still worth it. It's trail running shoes. So, um, I've tried different brands. And so there, it just to kind of depends on what kind of, I think it all comes down to cushion. Yeah. I used to run barefoot, so I'm a minimalist. [00:49:22] I want as little as I can get on the bottom of my feet. I like to feel the ground and, uh, I don't run barefoot anymore. I think after 15 miles, that's not a smart idea. It's be hard on the knees, but here's what I find about trail running shoes. I wore hiking boots forever. And when I, my leg in three places, one of the breaks was the hockey puck hit my shin and then just kind of shattered the bone in every direction from there. [00:49:49] And so where a hiking boot rides up higher on your shin, that's a total no-go for that seam where rods and screws are inside my rebuilt Lake. Yeah, I can do it, but I don't like it. So I stopped wearing a high rise, hiking boot. And I had trout runners in my closet because I run trail. I started wearing that instead, and now I wear my trail runners when I'm not running. [00:50:14] My old pairs are my mowing shoes. I go through several pairs a year. And so, uh, the bottom wears out before the top. So I just following them. But I find that I'm also. Uh, we went scouting for elk a few weeks ago and I wore trail runners and we weren't, we weren't even on a trail and we were bushwhacking and I found a hole, the hole, I found like a moose graveyard. [00:50:38] It was like the whole remains of a moose and it's racking, everything. Wow. Totally undisturbed. And so we were way off trail and I was only in trail runners. So. A trail runner with a Gator guard to keep up the gravel. Yeah, I find is so versatile and works in so many situations. If I need to get in the river, they dry out quick. [00:51:00] So I picked trail running shoes because they. Are versatile way beyond trail. Yeah, no, I agree with you. I don't wear hiking boots, either stiff souls or any of that stuff. Nope. I wear lightweight and oftentimes trail running shoes just because I have really bad knees, but I agree with you. I mean, it's lighter. [00:51:16] It's, it's, you know, less work on your leg and if you can get a good trail running shoe, you get the support you need. So I totally agree with you. Yeah. And I would say that maybe with a heavy pack, you know, a multi-day backpacking trip where you've got your house and your back, or my camera pack on my back for extended time. [00:51:32] Maybe that's not the best idea with powered ankle support, but by and large, I'm doing fine without wearing a big, heavy, stiff, clunky hiking boots. My mother hit mom the same. Yep. Um, as we wrap up, is there anything else you'd like to say to our audience or ask our audience? I would ask you to do this. [00:51:52] Stick your feet in the river, any river, the closest one you can get to people say they don't have the access to the outdoors, but you know, don't you drink water and that water is coming from somewhere. It's fine. Flowing water and stick your feet in it. It just makes that connection to our outdoor world. [00:52:10] That much more important to you if you can connect with it. And that's a simple way to do it, you don't need a lot of expensive gear. You don't have to drive far. Yeah. But just find a way to connect. And for me, that's the sticking your feet in the water. Perfect. I love it. That's a good one. That should be a t-shirt. [00:52:24] Maybe I'll make a t-shirt and if people want to reach out to you, where's the best way. Where's the best place for them to find you the best way to reach willing to all your social? Yeah. We'll link to all your social feeds. Yeah. So the best way to find me would be to go through my company website, Tate line, media.com. [00:52:44] Okay, cool. We'll link to that in the show notes too. Well, it's been great talking to you. I look forward to seeing you at one of the OWA events soon, and whenever we, whenever we get back together, we will. That's coming. And if, and if there's an Orr, we got to do that, we should for sure. Make sure that there's an in-person event where we can actually see people we got to meet. [00:53:05] Yeah, we will connect. Definitely. Well, thanks, Chris. I look forward to letting you know when this goes live and, uh, talking to you next week on the webinar, maybe your next month, I guess he was on that webinar. Yeah, thank you. All right, thanks. Have a good day. Have a good holiday. Thank you for joining us. [00:53:21] On another episode of the outdoor biz podcast, be sure to visit our website, the outdoor biz podcast.com where you'll find show notes with links to everything we talked about and more subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts. Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts. So you'll never miss an episode. And while you're at it, if you found value in this show, you'd appreciate a rating on iTunes or spread the word and tell a friend about the show that would really help us out to be sure to tune in every day. [00:53:50] And thanks again for listening to the outdoor biz podcast with Rick Saez.

Karole Honas, an anchor for KIFI Local News 8, is retiring after 30 years at the station and more as a journalist in Eastern Idaho. Kris Millgate worked with Karole twice and considers her a dear friend and mentor. She talks about their friendship and why Karole is an asset to Eastern Idaho viewers.

Hey there podcast family, welcome back and welcome to episode 54 of the Small Business Made Simple Podcast. As usual thank you for lending me your ears today – I know you have lots of choices, so I sincerely appreciate me being one of them! If you’re a first time listener, super super welcome, I am so pleased to have you here.  I am your host Jenn Donovan, and, it’s my job, via this podcast, social media and everywhere else actually, to make your business life simpler.  Business can be lonely and hard and complicated and it’s hardly ever easy, but it should be simple or at least simpler, so that’s my commitment you to on the Small Business Made Simple podcast! As I do this podcast recording, smoke fills my farm and visibility is less than 100 metres.  Sad thing is the fire is at least an hour away.  So, I cannot imagine what it’s like as you get closer. My heart, like so many of you, bleeds for those who are going through something I hope, selfishly, ever to experience. I’m lucky my fire fighting hubby hasn’t gone away.  The local trucks did, but he stayed in the knowledge that someone had to be in our district in case something happened closer to home. My podcast is not the place to be making big statements, inserting my personal opinions but it is a voice to encourage humanity. Right now, we need compassion more than ever, humility more than ever and grace for things we don’t understand. If you’re not listening to this in real time, so at the start of January 2020, then this next bit might be a bit strange, so forgive me … But with human lives lost, farm stock lost and birds and animals in the millions lost, I’d like to take this opportunity for a minutes silence… Ok, so a little fittingly, I have a guest on the podcast today who’s also a country gal like me. I am always pretty excited to connect with rural ladies doing amazing things.  And if that’s you – make sure you get in touch! Mell Millgate is my guest today.  Her business is Starfish Marketing and she lives in Rutherglen.  If you haven’t heard of Rutherglen before when you’re probably not a wine person! Rutherglen has some of the best fortified and red wines in the world! I digress….. Mell reached out to me earlier late in 2019 and we’re clicked ever since. Two rural marketing gals doing very different things – as you’ll hear on the podcast. Mell runs a marketing agency.  And that’s pretty much why I have asked her on today. How many emails or unsolicited ads do you see with massive promises and guarantees if you’ll just sign up to this agency and let them do your social media? 10 a day. 20 a day. Minimum right. I often say that my industry, marketing and social media, has a person for almost every corner in the Australia and agencies who promise you the world to do your social media for you are probably the same. So how on earth do you choose? It’s a fact that I am very used to: Everyone knows they should do marketing.  Everyone knows marketing will help grow their business and their bottom line, but most don’t have time (aka won’t make time).  And therefore, the offer of someone to do it for you seems like a good fit. So, if you’re thinking of employing an agency to take marketing off your plate, this is the episode for you. Let’s get into it and welcome Mell from Starfish Marketing. INTERVIEW WITH MELL MILLGATE – STARFISH MARKETING (Interview transcript) www.starfishm.com.au That’s all for episode 54. Let’s hit the ground running in 2020 …. It’ll be as EPIC as you make it! Big love my podcast family .. I’ll be back next Thursday with another cracking episode guaranteed! If you’re enjoying this podcast, don’t forget to subscribe so you never miss an episode and share this with a friend.  If you’re still in gift giving mode, I’d love a rating and a review.  Those things are like gold for podcasters like me!  It would mean the world. PS – you can leave more than one rating and review – just saying! But that is all for Episode 54. I’d love to connect with you all on social – so let’s get social on social – I’m on all the platforms, join the Like Minded Business Owners Group on Facebook - so let’s do that! …….. and remember small business peeps, as my opening song says, there’s no point in dreaming small!      

We're back with even more interviews from #MaltaComicCon!! This time #DanCornwell describes his favourite type of beard, #AlEwing tells us about a Hulk of a groovy kind. #LuisaRusso talks where in Italy to visit, #DavidMillgate shows me a bullet with his name on it & #SimonMyers warns us not to make promises when intoxicated. #PrepareForPrattle

History of BHA - Daniel Millgate As part of Richard's History of Barbershop classes at Harmony Academy, one of the highlights is being able to interview someone who has a lot of barbershop history, such as 4 time BHA Quartet Gold Medalist, International Quartet Representative and current BHA President, Dan Millgate.

Nigel Millgate grew up in the rural community of Dubbo, New South Wales. He’s a proud Karulkiyalu man of the Ngemba Nation, with deep roots to his ancestral lands. For the last ten years, Nigel has worked within indigenous communities across Australia, where he empowers people through culture, education, employment, and youth suicide prevention. He’s also an avid bowhunter who spends the majority of his time outdoors. Recently Nigel invited me to tag along. There were things I couldn’t film, record, or even talk about, but there’s just as much that I can. In this episode of Anchored, Nigel and I sit down to discuss the indigenous people of Australia, their incredible history, and a little bit of insight on where they are today.

Kris Millgate of Tight Line Media joins the National Wildlife Federation Outdoors Podcast this week to discuss her new book, "My Place Among Men." Kris has worked with the National Wildlife Federation and state affiliates like the Idaho Wildlife Federation on films like "Your Land," and donated a portion of pre-orders for her book to the National Wildlife Federation. We discuss breaking down the barriers between "hook & bullet" and "hike & bike" outdoor recreation, conservation issues affecting her home state of Idaho like wildfires, climate change, and the dams blocking Idaho's salmon runs, her career transitioning from a television journalist to a freelance outdoor media producer - often as "the only woman in the woods" on her assignments - and the stereotypes she had to defy to succeed, and teaching her sons to fly fish. As always, the National Wildlife Federation Outdoors Podcast is supported by RepYourWater and their 3% for Conservation commitment.  Resources:  Tight Line Media: https://www.tightlinemedia.com/ My Place Among Men: https://www.inkshares.com/books/my-place-among-men-0699d4 "Your Land" film: https://www.tightlinemedia.com/production-services/video-samples/?set=2762#sim-vid Idaho Wildlife Federation: https://www.idahowildlife.org Artemis Sportswomen: https://artemis.nwf.org/ National Wildlife Federation Outdoors: https://www.nwf.org/outdoors RepYourWater: https://www.repyourwater.com/

Kristie is our first BeautyBoss Intrepreneur to be featured on our show, meaning she doesn’t have her own beauty business but has moved up the corporate ladder of 1 of the worlds largest known skin care companies, into the position of General Manager of Dermalogica Australia. I have such a close connection with Kristie after working with her for 5 years, our babies are 2 months apart and I’m super grateful that as busy as she is, she always has time for a good chat. I absolutely loved my job as a Dermalogica business consultant, and if anyone is looking to go into a role like that its very rewarding especially when you align with a supportive company. I class Kristie as one of my mentors and thank her for every opportunity she put infront of me. NOW YOU CAN WIN: 1 of 4 Sound Sleep Cocoon’s - Revitalizing treatment gel-cream transforms skin overnight by optimizing nighttime skin recovery. Valued at $120 Comment under the social media post either on facebook or instagram of Kristie's Podcast Interview with your biggest takeaway and LIKE Dermalogica Australia  on facebook and Instagram for your chance to WIN!!!!!! Resources :  Book: Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg Fav Apps: Snap Chat, Last Pass, Dermalogica Facemapping App.  www.dermalogica.com.au orders@dermalogica.com.au  

For today’s Sunday Devotional, The Phoenix will share her thoughts about looking through the eyes of Love, receiving messages, and accepting one another. This topic is important for all EPIC Sensitives who want to achieve a well-lived life. The mission of the Sunday Devotional is to create focus on the Divine, while imparting skills and tools for EPIC Sensitives. Angie thrives in an atmosphere of reciprocal energy, feedback, and live input so those of you who join the show LIVE on the phone or through the chat room will receive interactions as the show goes and perhaps, have an opportunity to ask questions and receive guidance, time permitting. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff. Learn at LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore every aspect of abuse on this planet by living through it as a means of getting inside the energy to decode it, heal it, and eradicate it. As an Energy Reader, Healer, and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity and is a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides sacred space of transformation for those who are ready to lift themselves up out of the darkness and rise anew.  For more information about Angie, visit her website at AngieMillgate.com or follow her on Facebook. Schedule a 30-min free connecting call.

For today’s Sunday Devotional, The Phoenix will share her thoughts about the importance of forgiveness, what it means, and some ways she has moved through pain to forgiveness. This topic is important for all EPIC Sensitives who want to achieve a well-lived life. The focus of the Sunday Devotional is to create focus on the Divine, while imparting skills and tools for EPIC Sensitives. Angie thrives in an atmosphere of reciprocal energy, feedback, and live input so those of you who join the show LIVE on the phone or through the chat room will receive interactions as the show goes and perhaps, have an opportunity to ask questions and receive guidance, time permitting. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff. Learn at LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore every aspect of abuse on this planet by living through it as a means of getting inside the energy to decode it, heal it, and eradicate it. As an Energy Reader, Healer, and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity and is a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides sacred space of transformation for those who are ready to lift themselves up out of the darkness and rise anew.  For more information about Angie, visit her website at AngieMillgate.com or follow her on Facebook. Schedule a 30-min free connecting call.

For today’s Sunday Devotional, The Phoenix will share her thoughts about the importance of love, as well as her number one favorite tool for surviving on this planet. This tool is imperative for all EPIC Sensitives who want to achieve a well-lived life. The focus of the Sunday Devotional is to create focus on the Divine, while imparting skills and tools for EPIC Sensitives. Angie thrives in an atmosphere of reciprocal energy, feedback, and live input so those of you who join the show LIVE on the phone or through the chat room will receive interactions as the show goes and perhaps, have an opportunity to ask questions and receive guidance, time permitting. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff. Learn at LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore every aspect of abuse on this planet by living through it as a means of getting inside the energy to decode it, heal it, and eradicate it. As an Energy Reader, Healer, and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity and is a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides sacred space of transformation for those who are ready to lift themselves up out of the darkness and rise anew.  For more information about Angie, visit her website at AngieMillgate.com or follow her on Facebook. Schedule a 30-min free connecting call.

On today’s show, The Phoenix will be joined by Mary Strachan, an ambitious Visionary Change-Maker who is ready to mobilize people to define and realize their wildest dreams. They will be discussing: Clarity as part of Mary’s CAKE Method,The benefits of clarity, andSharing a word of caution when it comes to clarity. Angie thrives in an atmosphere of reciprocal energy, feedback, and live input so those of you who join the show LIVE on the phone or through the chat room will receive interactions as the show goes and perhaps, have an opportunity to ask questions and receive guidance, time permitting. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff. Learn at LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore every aspect of abuse on this planet by living through it as a means of getting inside the energy to decode it, heal it, and eradicate it. As an Energy Reader, Intuitive, and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity and is a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides sacred space of transformation for those who are ready to lift themselves up out of the darkness and rise anew.  For more information about Angie, visit her website at AngieMillgate.com or follow her on Facebook. Schedule a 30-min free connecting call.

On today’s show, The Phoenix will delve into the current popular theory bubbling in the spiritual communities that states that Empaths and Narcissists are inextricably linked. She will share: Her understanding of what it means to be an Empath and what it means to be a Narcissist,What she has been shown about the Empath Narcissist link, andWays you, as an EPIC Sensitive, can avoid this situation. Angie thrives in an atmosphere of reciprocal energy, feedback, and live input so those of you who join the show LIVE on the phone or through the chat room will receive interactions as the show goes and perhaps, have an opportunity to ask questions and receive guidance, time permitting. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff. Learn at LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore every aspect of abuse on this planet by living through it as a means of getting inside the energy to decode it, heal it, and eradicate it. As an Energy Reader, Intuitive, and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity and is a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides sacred space of transformation for those who are ready to lift themselves up out of the darkness and rise anew.  For more information about Angie, visit her website at AngieMillgate.com or follow her on Facebook. Schedule a 30-min free connecting call.

On today’s show, The Phoenix will delve into the current hot topics that are swirling around the United States. She will share: Her unique points of view about what is really going on,Awareness she has had about the “border events" and other traumatizing situations, andOffer some tools she, herself, practices to remain alert, aware, and awake in these distressing times. Angie thrives in an atmosphere of reciprocal energy, feedback, and live input so those of you who join the show LIVE on the phone or through the chat room will receive interactions as the show goes and perhaps, have an opportunity to ask questions and receive guidance, time permitting. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff. Learn more about Leraine at LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore every aspect of abuse on this planet by living through it as a means of getting inside the energy to decode it, heal it, and eradicate it. As an Energy Reader, Intuitive, and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity and is a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides sacred space of transformation for those who are ready to lift themselves up out of the darkness and rise anew.  For more information about Angie, visit her website at AngieMillgate.com or follow her on Facebook. Schedule a 30-min free connecting call.

When we live through abuse, sexual assault, or domestic violence, or when we come into this world as an EPIC Sensitive without any understanding of what that means, there can be parts of us that we hide from ourselves and others. On today’s show, The Phoenix will: Discuss what it means to be Divine AND Human in relation to the stuff we are hiding,Why discovering the hidden parts in the dark is important for healing, andSome ways to embrace the hidden parts of you. Angie thrives in an atmosphere of reciprocal energy, feedback, and live input so those of you who join the show LIVE on the phone or through the chat room will receive interactions as the show goes and perhaps, have an opportunity to ask questions and receive guidance, time permitting. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff. Learn more about Leraine at LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore every aspect of abuse on this planet by living through it to as a means of decoding and healing it, to eradicate it. As an Energy Reader and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity as a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides transformation space for those who are ready to lift themselves out of the darkness and rise anew.  For more information about Angie, visit her website at AngieMillgate.com or follow her on Facebook. Schedule a 30-min free connecting call.

On today’s show, The Phoenix will be joined by Amber Griffiths, CEO of Your Brand by Design - yourbrandbydesign.com. They will discuss: Claiming your VoiceConnecting with your FansComposing your Brand Soundtrack™ Angie thrives in an atmosphere of reciprocal energy, feedback, and live input so those of you who join the show LIVE on the phone or through the chat room will receive interactions as the show goes and perhaps, have an opportunity to ask questions and receive guidance, time permitting. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff. Learn more about Leraine at LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore every aspect of abuse on this planet by living through it as a means of getting inside the energy to decode it, heal it, and eradicate it. As an Energy Reader, Intuitive, and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity and is a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides sacred space of transformation for those who are ready to lift themselves up out of the darkness and rise anew.  For more information about Angie, visit her website at AngieMillgate.com or follow her on Facebook. Schedule a 30-min free connecting call.

Humans are waking up and it isn’t necessarily a “fun” thing. They are discovering just how powerfully sensitive they are. They’re feeling things that are BIG and confusing. On today’s show, The Phoenix will: Discuss 20 Signs of being an EPIC Sensitive, andShare some tools for supporting Sensitives Angie thrives in an atmosphere of reciprocal energy, feedback, and live input so those of you who join the show LIVE on the phone or through the chat room will receive interactions as the show goes and perhaps, have an opportunity to ask questions and receive guidance, time permitting. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff. Learn more about Leraine at LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore every aspect of abuse on this planet by living through it as a means of getting inside the energy to decode it, heal it, and eradicate it. As an Energy Reader, Intuitive, and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity and is a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides sacred space of transformation for those who are ready to lift themselves up out of the darkness and rise anew.  For more information about Angie, visit her website at AngieMillgate.com or follow her on Facebook. Schedule a 30-min free connecting call.

Each human faces times wherein they are uncertain, where things feel scary, and where they don’t know how to move forward. What do you do in those times? On today’s show, The Phoenix will: Talk about the dynamics of darkness in this world and the concept of “Hell,”Share a story about The Sun and The Night, andProvide tools for shifting out of “Hell” and into Light. Angie thrives in an atmosphere of reciprocal energy, feedback, and live input so those of you who join the show LIVE on the phone or through the chat room will receive interactions as the show goes and perhaps, have an opportunity to ask questions and receive guidance, time permitting. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff: LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore every aspect of abuse on this planet by living through it as a means of getting inside the energy to decode it, heal it, and eradicate it. As an Energy Reader, Intuitive, and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity and is a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides sacred space of transformation for those who are ready to lift themselves up out of the darkness and rise anew.  For more information about Angie, visit her website at AngieMillgate.com or follow her on Facebook. Schedule a 30-min free connecting call.

The dark is where scary creatures do bad things, or at least, that is what we were told. What if there is power in the dark that you are missing out on because you refuse to “go there?” On today’s show, The Phoenix will: Share a few experiences that have changed her perspective of the dark and shadows,Read an excerpt from her book, Above the Clouds, and expose a very vulnerable time, as well as her favorite tool for coping with the dark, andTalk about the importance of embracing the dark, the shadows, and finding the power within to do so. Today’s show is pre-recorded because Angie is participating in a 3-day event with her business coach. However, your interactions, questions, and comments are always welcome through the avenues of connection below. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff. Learn more about Leraine at LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore abuse on this planet by living through it so she could get inside the energy to decode it, heal it, and eradicate it. As an Energy Reader, Intuitive, and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity as a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides sacred space of transformation for those who are ready to lift themselves out of darkness and rise anew. Reach Angie: FacebookWebsiteEmail

In this fast-paced world, it is easy to grow exhausted and overwhelmed. If you are an EPIC Sensitive, it increases the odds that you are wondering how you're going to make it through the day. On this premier show, The Phoenix will: Share what it means to be an EPIC Sensitive,Provide THREE FOUNDATIONAL TOOLS for living successfully as an EPIC Sensitive on this planet, andTalk about the process of moving from being TOO Sensitive to Powerful Beyond Measure. Angie appreciates reciprocal energy, feedback, and live input, so she will interact on the air with those of you who join the show LIVE and, time permitting, you may have an opportunity to ask questions and receive guidance. === Theme song is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff. Learn more about Leraine at LeraineMusic.com Join the EPIC Sensitives group on Facebook. The Phoenix, Angie K. Millgate, has chosen to explore every aspect of abuse on this planet by living through it as a means of getting inside the energy to decode it, heal it, and eradicate it. As an Energy Reader, Intuitive, and Empath with a worldwide reach, Angie is dedicated to being of service to humanity and is a vessel of Light, Love, and Healing. She provides sacred space of transformation for those who are ready to lift themselves up out of the darkness and rise anew.  For more information about Angie, visit her website at AngieMillgate.com or follow her on Facebook. For questions, comments, show ideas, email the show.

Outdoor writer and BHA Podcast & Blast host Hal Herring sits down with Kris Millgate of Tight Line Media.  They discuss the occupation of Malheur Wildlife Refuge and penguin walks on ice, being comfortable in the face of danger, Millgate's trajectory in the world of journalism, ecology as economy, childhood and public lands, trapping and tracking grizzly bears, what grizz smell like, predators on the landscape, wildlife management, living in small towns, honesty as the best policy, and much more. 

In this special episode, Danny and Dom sit down with Sounds Australia's Millie Millgate and chat about the changing opportunities for Australian bands overseas, before Dom does a deep dive into the gender divide on festival lineups with help from Jack River, Music NSW's Hannah Crofts and Laneway Festival's Travis Banko.

»»Do you find yourself saying stuff about life being too difficult, too heavy, too complicated?»»Are you wondering when adulting grew so tiresome, so messed up, so damn stoopid?»»Do you wish for more time spent laughing so hard you can't sit up straight and you're doing that crazy, mouth-gaping, tears-running, squeaky-wheezy-snorting laugh while holding your stomach?These complaints and yearnings have been bubbling in Angie K. Millgate and her clients a lot lately and she was seeing that transformational work had split into two options:Either: "get-down-get-messy-get-ugly-until-snot-runs-out-of-your-whole-face-and-you-hate-everything-about-your-life..."Or: "you-are-love-and-light-and-don't-need-a-body-and-just-ignore-all-the-crap-you're-creating-because-you-are-dwelling-only-in-the-Fifth-Dimension-so-none-of-this-matters..."Neither of them were working for her - or the people who were finding their way to her, looking for support, for a new way.So she asked a question: “How can I contribute to the transformation of my life and the lives of my clients through PLAY and FUN while being IN the bodies we have been gifted?”Thus #‎REVELution was born and on today’s show Angie will be sharing a tool for an empowered life and a little about what you can expect when you join in the revolutionary revelry and allow it to change your life through play!REVELution, led by Angie K. Millgate, is a revolutionary playshop designed to transform the world through revelry. Her approach to energy healing creates a loving, supportive environment wherein you can do your own inner work as she leads you through processes that are far from serious and filled with music, laughter, meditation, art, and movement. 

»»Do you find yourself saying stuff about life being too difficult, too heavy, too complicated?»»Are you wondering when adulting grew so tiresome, so messed up, so damn stoopid?»»Do you wish for more time spent laughing so hard you can't sit up straight and you're doing that crazy, mouth-gaping, tears-running, squeaky-wheezy-snorting laugh while holding your stomach?These complaints and yearnings have been bubbling in Angie K. Millgate and her clients a lot lately and she was seeing that transformational work had split into two options:Either: "get-down-get-messy-get-ugly-until-snot-runs-out-of-your-whole-face-and-you-hate-everything-about-your-life..."Or: "you-are-love-and-light-and-don't-need-a-body-and-just-ignore-all-the-crap-you're-creating-because-you-are-dwelling-only-in-the-Fifth-Dimension-so-none-of-this-matters..."Neither of them were working for her - or the people who were finding their way to her, looking for support, for a new way.So she asked a question: “How can I contribute to the transformation of my life and the lives of my clients through PLAY and FUN while being IN the bodies we have been gifted?”Thus #‎REVELution was born and on today’s show Angie will be sharing a tool for an empowered life and a little about what you can expect when you join in the revolutionary revelry and allow it to change your life through play!REVELution, led by Angie K. Millgate, is a revolutionary playshop designed to transform the world through revelry. Her approach to energy healing creates a loving, supportive environment wherein you can do your own inner work as she leads you through processes that are far from serious and filled with music, laughter, meditation, art, and movement. 

Looking for support?Longing for someone to listen to you and help you uncover your answers?Seeking clarity?NOW IS YOUR CHANCE!Angie K. Millgate will delve into her intuitive nature and open up to the universe to channel empowering messages and provide clearings for the energy blocks she sees within your questions so that you may discover your own answers and create a path forward into a life you want to live..To participate in this free experience, send an email to Angie's email with your story, question, or situation you're seeking clarity on and then listen in live or to the archives any time after the show airs at: Moments of Awakening"... it is always rare to find someone who possesses a genuine gift. Angie K. Millgate does indeed possess that gift. She is highly intuitive, empathic even, and her overall spirit is friendly, warm and inviting." - past client

Looking for support?Longing for someone to listen to you and help you uncover your answers?Seeking clarity?NOW IS YOUR CHANCE!Angie K. Millgate will delve into her intuitive nature and open up to the universe to channel empowering messages and provide clearings for the energy blocks she sees within your questions so that you may discover your own answers and create a path forward into a life you want to live..To participate in this free experience, send an email to Angie's email with your story, question, or situation you're seeking clarity on and then listen in live or to the archives any time after the show airs at: Moments of Awakening"... it is always rare to find someone who possesses a genuine gift. Angie K. Millgate does indeed possess that gift. She is highly intuitive, empathic even, and her overall spirit is friendly, warm and inviting." - past client

You've been feeling stuck, frustrated, and like any way you turn, you're trapped. It seems that, no matter what you do, you cannot move forward and it seems like you just keep sabotaging yourself.You want to reach out to people, or people to reach out to you, but for some reason it's just not working.You are so damn lonely and wanting to be in a relationship with someone and you're almost to the point where you're thinking that, pretty much, anyone will do, but even that isn't working. And you're still so lonely.These are some of the results you can experience when you've built a fortress to protect yourself. On today's show, Angie K. Millgate will share some of her personal journey with wall building and what she discovered while trapped in a prison of her own making. In going through that process herself, Angie has come to understand just how much courage it takes to go through it. She will share from her published book City of Certainty and the tools that are buried within it.For more information about Angie's work, visit her website: angiemillgate.comThe theme song of Moments of Awakening is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff and is used with her permission. For more information about Leraine's music, visit her website: lerainemusic.com

You've been feeling stuck, frustrated, and like any way you turn, you're trapped. It seems that, no matter what you do, you cannot move forward and it seems like you just keep sabotaging yourself.You want to reach out to people, or people to reach out to you, but for some reason it's just not working.You are so damn lonely and wanting to be in a relationship with someone and you're almost to the point where you're thinking that, pretty much, anyone will do, but even that isn't working. And you're still so lonely.These are some of the results you can experience when you've built a fortress to protect yourself. On today's show, Angie K. Millgate will share some of her personal journey with wall building and what she discovered while trapped in a prison of her own making. In going through that process herself, Angie has come to understand just how much courage it takes to go through it. She will share from her published book City of Certainty and the tools that are buried within it.For more information about Angie's work, visit her website: angiemillgate.comThe theme song of Moments of Awakening is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff and is used with her permission. For more information about Leraine's music, visit her website: lerainemusic.com

You've committed to making a change and suddenly, you are faced with seemingly insurmountable fear. Dark, shadowy, and usually hidden creatures show up, bare their fangs, and growl horrifically. You quake in your boots and cower away from the claws that swipe through the air. There are monsters all around you and you are terrified. The more scared you get, the bigger these monsters get, and the more difficult it is to move forward, toward your dreams and goals. You are confused about why they are there and want to hide from their fierce presence. You want them to go away. You want them to leave you alone. Maybe you try different things like hiding beneath your covers, numbing out through substances, or denial. No matter what you do, when you open your eyes, those creatures are still there, staring at you with snarling faces and growling voices, getting ever bigger and ever scarier.On today's show, Angie K. Millgate will be talking about these terrifying aparitions and the reasons they appear. She will share her favorite story that relates to these monsters and contains the skills and tools needed to make them disappear. With compassion and love, she will walk with you down that path toward the monsters and help you release yourself from their grasp.For more information about Angie's work, visit her website: angiemillgate.comThe theme song of Moments of Awakening is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff and is used with her permission. For more information about Leraine's music, visit her website: lerainemusic.com

You've committed to making a change and suddenly, you are faced with seemingly insurmountable fear. Dark, shadowy, and usually hidden creatures show up, bare their fangs, and growl horrifically. You quake in your boots and cower away from the claws that swipe through the air. There are monsters all around you and you are terrified. The more scared you get, the bigger these monsters get, and the more difficult it is to move forward, toward your dreams and goals. You are confused about why they are there and want to hide from their fierce presence. You want them to go away. You want them to leave you alone. Maybe you try different things like hiding beneath your covers, numbing out through substances, or denial. No matter what you do, when you open your eyes, those creatures are still there, staring at you with snarling faces and growling voices, getting ever bigger and ever scarier.On today's show, Angie K. Millgate will be talking about these terrifying aparitions and the reasons they appear. She will share her favorite story that relates to these monsters and contains the skills and tools needed to make them disappear. With compassion and love, she will walk with you down that path toward the monsters and help you release yourself from their grasp.For more information about Angie's work, visit her website: angiemillgate.comThe theme song of Moments of Awakening is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff and is used with her permission. For more information about Leraine's music, visit her website: lerainemusic.com

Many people fear speaking up because they believe that they will hurt other people, so they stay silent, swallow their words, or disappear all together to avoid hurting another. Another commmon fear is that they will say the wrong thing and that, somehow, other people know how to say things better than them.On today's show, Angie K. Millgate will be drawing on her training as a crisis support team member for a national airline and her decade of experience in life coaching and energy healing work to share with you some of the statements you can use to speak your truth. She will share with you the 3 Secrets she has discovered over they years that lead into saying the right thing. For more information about Angie's work, visit her website: angiemillgate.comThe theme song of Moments of Awakening is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff and is used with her permission. For more information about Leraine's music, visit her website: lerainemusic.com#divinelypowerful

Many people fear speaking up because they believe that they will hurt other people, so they stay silent, swallow their words, or disappear all together to avoid hurting another. Another commmon fear is that they will say the wrong thing and that, somehow, other people know how to say things better than them.On today's show, Angie K. Millgate will be drawing on her training as a crisis support team member for a national airline and her decade of experience in life coaching and energy healing work to share with you some of the statements you can use to speak your truth. She will share with you the 3 Secrets she has discovered over they years that lead into saying the right thing. For more information about Angie's work, visit her website: angiemillgate.comThe theme song of Moments of Awakening is "Groove Thing" by Leraine Horstmanshoff and is used with her permission. For more information about Leraine's music, visit her website: lerainemusic.com#divinelypowerful