Podcast appearances and mentions of susan friedman

This is Part 5 of a five part series with Dr. Susan Friedman. Susan is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. She is well known around the world for her very popular on-line course: How Behavior Works: Living & Learning With Animals). She has co-authored chapters on behavior change in five veterinary texts, and her popular articles have been translated into 17 languages. She shares many of those articles on her web site: behavior works.org It's a great resource for all of us who want to learn more about the natural science of behavior. Susan is a member of the clicker expo faculty. Her presentations at the March Clicker Expo prompted this conversation on schedules of reinforcement. In Part 1 Susan reviewed with us the basics of fixed and variable schedules. She ended with a question about how you get behavior to vary when you are using a continuous reinforcement schedule. We carried that question over into Part 2. In Part 2 we took a deeper dive into continuous reinforcement schedules. We considered how you get behavior to vary without using a variable reinforcement schedule. Susan talked about a moving away from transactional training to training with assent. Part 3 Susan helped us to understand schedules of co-variation. She defined conjugate and synchronous schedules and gave some very practical examples, especially as it relates to husbandry procedures that may involve some discomfort. Again, she discussed what assent looks like and what it means when an animal says no. What conditions must be present for a conjugate schedule to begin and what conditions mean that the training should stop? Part 4 was very much about working in teams. Especially when you are working on husbandry procedures that the animal may not be comfortable with, you need to notice and respond appropriately to the subtle “no answers” an animal presents. When one person is in charge of feeding and the other is handling the procedure, effective communication needs to be there. At the Cheyenne Mountain zoo where Susan does a great deal of consulting work, the goal of each training session is not getting the procedure done. It is having a willing animal for the next session. She talked about the difference between empathy and compassion, and somehow that took us to parenting styles and what to do when a baby cries. Now in Part 5 of this conversation we'll be talking about non-linear analysis. Susan talks about the shift in focus from proximal to distant antecedents. She defines what this means and shares several stories that really help us to understand these concepts. When you're faced with unwanted behavior an empowering question is to ask: if he did what was wanted, what would this individual be giving up? In other words what other contingencies are reinforcing (or perhaps not reinforcing) the behavior such that, from the handler's perspective, an unwanted behavior emerges. If we could make a change in these other contingencies, we might not have to deal with this unwanted behavior. Susan's stories make it very clear what this means and how to go about designing behavior change plans that take the distant antecedents into account. My favorite example involves the penguins at the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo.

This is the fourth in a five part series with Dr Susan Friedman. The general topic is schedules of reinforcement. Susan is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. She is well known around the world for her very popular on-line course: How Behavior Works: Living & Learning With Animals). She has co-authored chapters on behavior change in five veterinary texts, and her popular articles have been translated into 17 languages. She shares many of those articles on her web site: behavior works.org It's a great resource for all of us who want to learn more about the natural science of behavior. Susan is a member of the clicker expo faculty. Her presentations at the March Clicker Expo prompted this conversation on schedules of reinforcement. In Part 1 Susan reviewed with us the basics of fixed and variable schedules. She ended with a question about how you get behavior to vary when you are using a continuous reinforcement schedule. We carried that question over into Part 2. In Part 2 we took a deeper dive into continuous reinforcement schedules. We considered how you get behavior to vary without using a variable reinforcement schedule. Susan talked about moving away from transactional training to training with assent. Part 3 Susan helped us to understand schedules of co-variation. She defined conjugate and synchronous schedules and gave some very practical examples, especially as it relates to husbandry procedures that may involve some discomfort. Again, she discussed what assent looks like and what it means when an animal says no. What conditions must be present for a conjugate schedule to begin and what conditions mean that the training should stop? Part 4 is very much about working in teams. Especially when you are working on husbandry procedures that the animal may not be comfortable with, you need to notice and respond appropriately to the subtle signals an animal presents. When one person is in charge of feeding and the other is handling the procedure, effective communication needs to be there. At the Cheyenne Mountain zoo where Susan does a great deal of consulting work, the goal of each training session is not getting the procedure done. It is having a willing animal for the next session. In this episode we talk about different magnitudes of reinforcers and the importance of making a distinction in the reinforcers that are available in order for a choice to be made. Susan talks about the difference between empathy and compassion, and somehow that takes us to parenting styles and a question from Dominique about what to do when a baby cries.

We're talking with Dr Susan Friedman about schedules of reinforcement. Susan is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. She is well known around the world for her very popular on-line course: How Behavior Works: Living & Learning With Animals). She has co-authored chapters on behavior change in five veterinary texts, and her popular articles have been translated into 17 languages. She shares many of those articles on her web site: behavior works.org. It's a great resource for all of us who want to learn more about the natural science of behavior. Susan is a member of the clicker expo faculty. Her presentations at the March Clicker Expo prompted this conversation on schedules of reinforcement. In Part 1 Susan reviewed with us the basics of fixed and variable schedules. She ended with a question about how you get behavior to vary when you are using a continuous reinforcement schedule. That's where we began in Part 2. In Part 2 we took a deeper dive into continuous reinforcement schedules. We considered how you get behavior to vary without using a variable reinforcement schedule. Susan talked about a moving away from transactional training to training with assent. Part 3 Susan helps us to understand schedules of co-variation. She defines conjugate and synchronous schedules and gives some very practical examples, especially as it relates to husbandry procedures that may involve some discomfort. Again she discusses what assent looks like and what it means when an animal says no. What conditions must be present for a conjugate schedule to begin and what conditions mean that the training should stop?

We're talking with Dr. Susan Friedman about schedules Susan is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. She is well known around the world for her very popular on-line course: “How Behavior Works: Living & Learning With Animals”. She has co-authored chapters on behavior change in five veterinary texts, and her popular articles have been translated into 17 languages. She shares many of those articles on her web site: behavior works.org. It's a great resource for all of us who want to learn more about the natural science of behavior. Susan is a member of the clicker expo faculty. Her presentations at the March Clicker Expo prompted this conversation on schedules of reinforcement. In Part 1 Susan reviewed with us the basics of fixed and variable schedules. In Part 2 we take a deeper dive into continuous reinforcement schedules. We consider how you get behavior to vary without using a variable reinforcement schedule. Susan talks about a move away from transactional training to training with assent. She explains what that means and what it might look like for the learner. We ended Part 1 with a question about how you get behavior to vary when you are using a continuous reinforcement schedule. That's where we pick up as we continue the conversation.

In the second episode of a multipart series on choosing a dog trainer, Verena and Jesse explore how the different behavior interventions stack up against each other when it comes to how pleasant or unpleasant they are for the dog, using the concept of the humane hierarchy. We're referring to the Dr. Susan Friedman article "What's Wrong with This Picture: Effectiveness is Not Enough". You will also find the image that we're talking about on the podcast in this article. Our shoutout goes to the Paws & Reward Podcast, specifically this episode on the humane hierarchy. We would appreciate your support for the Reward Your Dog Podcast by liking, rating, reviewing, and sharing. It helps us so much! You can also:Join the RYDP Patreon (no paywalls unless you *want* to subscribe)Buy us a coffeeMore info on Reward Your Dog Training can be found here:WebsiteBlue SkyFacebookInstagram

This week we're starting a new series with Dr Susan Friedman. Susan is well known around the world for her very popular on-line course: How Behavior Works: Living & Learning With Animals). She has co-authored chapters on behavior change in five veterinary texts, and her popular articles have been translated into 17 languages. She shares many of those articles on her web site: behavior works.org It's a great resource for all of us who want to learn more about the natural science of behavior. Susan is a member of the clicker expo faculty. Her presentations at the March Clicker Expo prompted this conversation on schedules of reinforcement. In this first part Susan gets us all grounded in the subject with a review of the basics. As always, Susan makes clear what can often be confusing definitions and distinctions.

Last week Dominique and I were talking about the Clicker Expo. We shared our impressions of the Expo and then I talked about my presentation on the participating horse. This week we are continuing to explore what changes in the relationship that established when active participation is encouraged. Active participation very much means that it is safe for our animals to say “no”. We begin with a discussion of what a “no” really represents. We consider what it means for our animals to have a lifestyle of choice - an expression that comes from Dr. Susan Friedman. We discuss the use of multiple marker signals, treaties clicks, keep going signals, and treating without clicking. And we celebrate the wonderful clicker expo training community that is part of Karen Pryor's legacy.

Join Laura Cassiday and Joanna Wachowiak-Finlaison as they chat and chuckle with the one and only Dr. Susan Friedman about behavior analysis.

Podcast Synopsis In this milestone episode of the Animal Training Academy Podcast, host Ryan Cartlidge is joined once again by the incredible Dr. Susan G. Friedman—a leading expert in behavioral science and animal training. A returning guest every 50th episode, Susan brings her extensive knowledge and decades of experience to discuss the evolving role of negative reinforcement in ethical training, recognizing subtle "no" signals from animals, and the power of behavioral science to create more informed trainers. Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of: ✅ The importance of teaching animals to say "no" and trainers to honor it ✅ The ethical application of negative reinforcement in animal training ✅ Sub-threshold training techniques to reduce stress and improve communication ✅ The impact of non-linear contingency analysis in understanding complex behaviors ✅ Why positive reinforcement training has been so successful—and the next frontier of voluntary medical procedures This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about progressive, evidence-based training methods. Whether you're an animal trainer, behavior consultant, or just fascinated by the science of learning, Dr. Friedman's insights will challenge your thinking and push the boundaries of what's possible in ethical animal training.

HAPPY 250TH EPISODE, TEC TALK! To celebrate this fun landmark, Ari and Chris are joined by four amazing people who've had a huge impact on us and our field: Ken Ramirez (Karen Pryor Clicker Training), Steve Martin (Natural Encounters, Inc.), Susan Friedman (Behavior Works), and Tim Sullivan (Brookfield Zoo Chicago)! Our guests talk about how they all met each other (spoiler alert: everyone was intimidated by everyone), reflect on the impact on their lives of the late Karen Pryor, share some of their current biggest peeves/vendettas/crusades, reveal things they are working on about themselves, and give us suggestions for topics and guests for future episodes. It's an incredible talk with incredible people, and our way of saying thank you to our listeners for supporting the show - here's to the next 250! If you have a shout-out you'd like us to share, a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at podcast@naturalencounters.com! References from the episode: A Celebration of Life: Karen Pryor The Modern Principles of Shaping by Karen Pryor ⁠Modern Animal Care: A Skinnerian Perspective on Choice and Control⁠ by Christy Alligood and Susan Friedman

Boy oh boy, did life decide to life all over us today! Today we had a fun recording planned with the amazing Dr Susan Friedman, founder of Behavior Works... and then a surprise USDA inspection stole Ari away from us and threw everything into a tizzy! Chris did get a bit of time to chat with Susan, and though we decided to push our planned recording down the calendar to later in the year, I did get to record our chat, and at Susan's encouragement we decide to share some of it with you! We are nothing if not flexible, and hey - there's some good stuff in here! If you have a shout-out you'd like us to share, a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at podcast@naturalencounters.com! ---------------------------------------- We also want to thank our sponsor, Magic Mind! To learn more about how Magic Mind can help you build your "Mental Wealth" and take advantage of a special 45% savings offer, visit ⁠https://www.magicmind.com/thetecjan⁠ - thanks Magic Mind!

Have you ever written a book only to wonder, “Now what?” Don't let your hard work sit on the shelf collecting dust. Learn how leveraging skills can turn your book into multiple resources.  Today, as part of the Mastering Excellence series, Nikki talks with Susan Friedman, an expert in book marketing. She's here to share her proven strategies for turning your book into multiple products and increasing your profits. We know you poured your heart and soul into your book, but don't stop there. Learn how to repurpose your content into checklists, tip sheets, and even online courses, giving your readers more ways to engage with your expertise—and more ways for you to get paid. In this episode, you'll discover how to take your book and create a variety of new products that can skyrocket your sales, whether it's turning a chapter into a workshop or an article into a lead magnet.  We'll also explore how leveraging your skills can help you build even more value, expanding your reach and impact. Lastly, we'll dive into the power of niching down—how adapting your material for specific audiences can open up fresh opportunities and grow your influence. Listen in for tips on maximizing your book's potential, boosting your income, and leveraging your expertise in ways you never imagined. This episode is packed with actionable insights that will change how you think about book marketing. Susan Friedmann is a badass in the world of nonfiction book marketing coaching and training. With over 30 years of experience, she's on a mission to help authors sell books in bulk. Through her company, Aviva Publishing, she's guided hundreds of non-fiction authors toward mastery in their niche.  She's a writing powerhouse, with 18 books to her name - the first selling more than 500,000 copies to one company!  She also hosts "Book Marketing Mentors," an award-winning weekly podcast now in its 8th year, which ranks in the top 1.5 percent of podcasts worldwide. Nikki invites you to join the Sales Maven Society. Take advantage of this opportunity to work together with you and Nikki. Bring your questions, concerns, and sales situations; she provides answers and guidance. Join the Sales Maven Society here, click Join Today, and then checkout and use coupon code 47trial to get your first month for $47.00!   In This Episode: [00:47] There is a structure to success. When you break down how someone is achieving a high level of success you can apply that structure in your life and business. [02:14] Our topic today is about how to take a book and turn it into multiple products. [03:01] We learn about Susan's first success on her own, niching down to trade shows. She began Aviva Publishing to publish her own work.  [04:21] Susan's book evolved into checklists for people attending or presenting at trade shows. This ended up 10xing her book sales. [05:35] These checklists eventually evolved into tip sheets and then articles. [06:33] The magic of recycle, repurpose, and reuse. [07:08] Articles can also become mini books or ebooks or even lead magnets. Cut, slice, and dice. [08:13] A book can be a door opening business card. [10:27] Brainstorm and think about how many different pieces you have in the book that you could turn into other products. Break it down to the lowest common denominator. [12:35] Think about who your market is and what you want the book to do for you. [15:57] Do the multiple products refer back to the book? This would depend on the specific audience. [18:44] Strategies like having a sponsor who sponsors the book to get it put in everybody's bag at an event. You both would need to have the same type of audience. [23:19] The advantage of having established expertise. [26:44] Your big fat business card (book) is a way to get your foot in the door. [28:40] Speakers are usually expected to have a book. [34:28] Nikki issues a challenge to have a brainstorm session about your work and see what other products you can turn it into. [35:03] Book topics can also be taken and niched down for specific groups. [37:07] Fun questions with Susan! [39:16] Susan is also working on a book marketing crash course.   For more actionable sales tips, download the FREE Closing The Sale Ebook.   Find Nikki: Nikki Rausch nikki@yoursalesmaven.com Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Instagram Sales Maven Society Work With Nikki Discussion To download free Resources from Nikki: www.yoursalesmaven.com/maven    Find Susan: Get A Book Marketing Brainstorming Session With Susan! Susan Friedmann - Book Marketing Mentors Aviva Publishing Book Marketing Mentors Podcast Books by Susan Friedmann Facebook | Twitter | LinkedIn | Instagram How Playful Sales Strategies Can Drive Your Book Success - BM442  

The TEC Talk Podcast is super excited to invite Rick Hester to the show! Rick joins us to talk about the journey that brought him to his current role as Curator of Behavioral Husbandry at Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, the important ways his understanding of training and behavior were moved ahead by formative experiences with both NEI and Dr Susan Friedman, his exciting recent work exploring the concept of "free operants" with a variety of earthlings, and to share some thoughts about how he is able to keep a lot of plates spinning in his life in a way that is both hard AND reinforcing.  If you have a shout-out you'd like us to share, a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at podcast@naturalencounters.com!  

This week we're continuing our conversation with Dr Susan Friedman and Rick Hester. In this episode we begin with a question to Susan: Is the teaching standard known as Lima the same as the hierarchy of behavior change procedures that Susan has written about? Susan provides an historical perspective for the LIMA acronym, and for many of the other labels people have attached to training.

In this episode of the Animal Training Academy Podcast, host Ryan Cartlidge is joined by the esteemed Dr. Susan Friedman and Rick Hester. Dr. Friedman, a Professor Emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University, has been a trailblazer in the field of animal behavior, with her work translated into over 15 languages and her influence felt globally. Rick Hester, the Curator of Behavioral Husbandry at Cheyenne Mountain Zoo and adjunct faculty member at Colorado State University, has been collaborating with Dr. Friedman since 2015 to deepen the understanding of behavior analysis and its application to animal care. Topics discussed in this episode: The origins of LIMA (Least Intrusive, Minimally Aversive). Adoption of LIMA in animal training and its significance. Ethical considerations of applying LIMA in training practice. The continuum of intrusiveness in training procedures. Importance of providing animals with control over their outcomes. Differences in the interpretation and application of LIMA. Insights from Dr. Friedman's and Rick Hester. Future directions and ongoing developments in ethical animal training. Learn more from Dr Friedman and get in touch with both her and Rick here >>> https://www.behaviorworks.org/

This week we're continuing our conversation with Dr Susan Friedman and Rick Hester. Dr Friedman has been a frequent guest on this podcast. She is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. She is pioneer in the use of Applied Behavior Analysis in the handling of captive and companion animals. Her interest in developing scientifically sound, ethical standards for animal care and training prompted our this current conversation. We are also joined by Rick Hester. Rick is the curator of behavioral Husbandry for the Cheyenne Mountain zoo. Rick overseas the zoo's training program for husbandry, medical and public show behaviors. In this episode we consider many important questions, including what does it mean to be a positive reinforcement trainer? How do we operationalize that? How do we evaluate new ideas? We don't want to move too quickly but nor do we want to get stuck in old ideas. Why does novelty have such a draw for us? We also consider why Susan has chosen to keep punishment in the hierarchy of behavior change strategies. This opens the door to a discussion of negative reinforcement as well as punishment. Do we need new words to describe the procedures we use?

This is Part 1 of a three part conversation with Dr. Susan Friedman and Rick Hester. Dr. Friedman has been a frequent guest on this podcast. Most of you I'm sure already know Susan. But just as a reminder, Susan is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. She is a pioneer in the use of Applied Behavior Analysis in the handling of captive and companion animals. Her interest in developing scientifically sound, ethical standards for animal care and training prompted our this current conversation. We are also joined by Rick Hester. Rick is the curator of behavioral Husbandry for the Cheyenne Mountain zoo. Rick overseas the zoo's training program for husbandry, medical and public show behaviors. I value the perspective he brings to training. When you work with horses it all too easy to think you have to rely on force-based methods for some medical and husbandry behaviors - and then you see what's being done in zoos. We begin by talking about why it matters to have ethical standards guiding the training choices we make. We are talking about training goals and strategies that provide our learners with choice and a lifestyle of control.

Susan Friedman, CSP, has decades of experience helping authors get their book published, and sold. It’s this marketing piece that usually trips up non-fiction writers, and it all comes down to mindset. Take advantage of...

This episode is for you if you identify as a perfectionist. Simply talking with Aga, the short version for Agnieszka about the concept of errorless learning has given me another way to look at perfectionism and how it can (often but not always) be unhelpful.Aga talks about training behaviors to fluency which is different from perfection, and about the benefits of playing by someone else's rules now and then, just to get you out of your comfort zone.She will have you completely rethink the idea of "just one more repetition" and "ending on a win".Not just that. What about extinction and frustration? Do we need frustration or can we skip it?Aga also blew my mind by giving me a way of looking at resilience completely differently. What if resilience, the ability to bounce back, isn't an innate trait? What if it simply amounts to having a big enough skillset to be able to handle errors? And since skills can be taught, what if you could teach resilience? Errorlessly? With minimal frustration?How does this apply to humans?How does she apply it in her personal life and her business?And of course, we chat about Agnieszka's new book, the Animal Trainer's Comprehensive Handbook.Listen to this episode multiple times. It's packed with gems!Links:Tromplo on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tromplo/Agnieszka's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/agnieszkajanarektrainer/The Tromplo website: https://tromplo.com/The link to the new book, the Animal Trainer's Comprehensive Handbook: https://tromplo.com/product/animal-trainers-comprehensive-handbook-by-agnieszka-janarek/ Also mentioned:Dr. Susan Friedman: https://www.behaviorworks.org/Ken Ramirez: https://www.kenramireztraining.com/Kay Laurence: https://www.learningaboutdogs.com/Episode website:https://kajsavanoverbeek.com/033-agnieszka-janarek-of-tromplo-on-errorless-learning-lack-of-perfectionism-and-resilience-in-both-humans-and-dogs/

Join host Shelley Wood on The Making Ripples Podcast Show as she delves into the fascinating world of bird of prey training with Kimberly Lundy from the Ojai Raptor Center. Based in Ventura, California, Kimberly's journey from volunteer to lead trainer exemplifies her commitment to avian welfare and innovative training methods. This episode offers a glimpse into the transformative shift towards empowerment training at the center, a change that Kimberly played a crucial role in during the pandemic shutdown. This episode is rich with stories, challenges, and successes in avian training. Kimberly shares her experiences in retraining older ambassadors under new paradigms, highlighting the importance of understanding animal behavior and learner-centric approaches. Listeners will gain invaluable insights into the nuances of bird training, inspired by Kimberly's extensive background in behavioral ecology and applied behavioral analysis. This episode promises to enhance your knowledge and skills, encouraging a positive impact on both animal and human learners. Links etc... Kimberly Lundy E-mail: lundy.kj@gmail.com Kimberly Lundy Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kimberly.lundy.7 Ojai Raptor Center Website https://www.ojairaptorcenter.org/ Ojai Raptor Center Instagram https://www.instagram.com/ojairaptorcenter/ Ojai Raptor Center Facebookhttps://www.facebook.com/theojairaptorcenter Ojai Raptor Center TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@ojairaptorcenter Avian Behavior International https://avian-behavior.org/ International Association of Avian Trainers & Educators https://iaate.org/ Susan Friedman, PhD, Living & Learning with Animals: The Fundamental Principles and Procedures of Teaching and Learning https://www.behaviorworks.org/htm/lla_professional_overview.html Natural Encounters, Inc., Training and Education Center (NEI TEC) https://naturalencounters.com/nei-tec/ International Wildlife Rehabilitation Council, Basic Wildlife Rehabilitation Course https://theiwrc.org/courses/ Ken Ramirez, The Eye of The Trainer: Animal Training, Transformation, and Trust. First Edition. Waltham: Sunshine Books, Inc., 2020 >>> https://shop.clickertraining.com/products/the-eye-of-the-trainer-animal-training-transformation-and-trust?variant=31879440924810

Stall Lyckoklöver är verkligen unik, Karolina berättar om stallets värdegrund och hur det också relaterar till hennes syn på alla typer av relationer inte bara dem hon har med hästarna. Sist får vi också höra om hennes tankar kring ett av hennes favorit citat av Dr. Susan Friedman.

Du liebst deine Katze über alles, aber manches Verhalten geht dir so richtig auf den Keks? Doch wie kannst du lästiges Verhalten bei deiner Katze positiv und respektvoll verändern? Diese Frage beantworte ich in der heutigen Episode, wo ich dir 6 Wege aufzeige, die du gehen kannst, um das Verhalten deiner Katze effektiv und positiv zu ändern. Dabei gehe ich auf das Modell “The Hierarchy of Behavior-Change Procedures” von Dr. Susan Friedman ein, dass uns 6 mächtige Stellschrauben an die Hand gibt, um die Beziehung zu deiner Katze zu vertiefen und ihr Verhalten sanft zu verbessern. Außerdem gebe ich dir anschauliche Beispiele und Ideen mit, wie du die einzelnen Wege mit deiner Katze gehen kannst, um auf positive Art ihr Verhalten zu verändern. Diese Episode ist vollgepackt mit ganz viel Wissen und Impulsen. In den Shownotes findest du weiterführendes Material. Heute erfährst du… - die Voraussetzung, um das Verhalten deiner Katze ändern zu können - wie Verhalten und Umgebung zusammenhängen und wie du die Umgebung deiner Katze anpassen kannst, um ihr Verhalten positiv zu beeinflussen - was positive Verstärkung bedeutet und wie du sie effektiv einsetzen kannst, einschließlich Techniken wie Clickertraining und andere Marker - den Unterschied zwischen positiver und negativer Belohnung und warum dies nichts mit Emotionen zu tun hat - wo negative Belohnung im Katzentraining sinnvoll eingesetzt werden kann und warum es wichtig ist, sie korrekt anzuwenden - warum Bestrafungen selten die beste Lösung sind und wie sie das zukünftige Verhalten deiner Katze beeinflussen können - wie wir das erwähnte Modell auch auf uns Menschen anwenden können “Deine Katze wird das wiederholen, was sich für sie lohnt” (Zitat aus der Folge) Wenn du bei Exit 4,5, oder 6 bist und dich nicht so wohl damit fühlst, dann schreib mir, ich habe momentan noch Plätze bei meinem Mentoring-Program [“Deep Dive”](https://clickercat.ch/deep-dive/) . Bei einem kostenlosen Kennenlernen-Termin schauen wir, ob "Deep Dive" für dich und deine Katze passt. Bei kleineren Herausforderungen mit deiner Katze kannst du dir deine [Katzensprechstunde](https://elopage.com/s/katzentraining/1-1-Session-60-Minuten/payment) bei mir buchen. Weiterführende Informationen zur Folge: [Schmerzgesicht - so erkennst du ob deine Katze Schmerzen hat](https://audio.podigee-cdn.net/1224162-m-6270b80baf46901158704047250542c3.mp3?source=feed) [FORL - das stille Leiden bei Katzen](https://audio.podigee-cdn.net/1217404-m-526179548d5fac4e7e2176dc1905ea5b.mp3?source=feed) [Wann solltest du Belohnen oder Strafen?](https://audio.podigee-cdn.net/646620-m-592fad7b2ed1bb5aaac9818c4fc55327.mp3?source=feed) [Die 5 Sprachen der Liebe](https://www.amazon.de/f%C3%BCnf-Sprachen-Liebe-Kommunikation-Partnerschaft/dp/3861221268) ** Mehr von mir: ** [Mein Instagram Kanal ](https://www.instagram.com/clicker.cat/) [Meine Webseite](https://clickercat.ch/) [Mein Booklet mit 33-Ideen für deinen Katzenalltag ](https://clickercat.ch/33-ideen/)(für 0€) **So kannst du mit mir arbeiten** [Katzensprechstunde](https://elopage.com/s/katzentraining/1-1-Session-60-Minuten/payment): In einer Stunde ist viel möglich. Deshalb biete ich dir hier meine Zeit, in der du deine Fragen zum Katzenhaushalt stellen kannst, wir deiner Katze einen neuen Trick beibringen oder mit dem Medical Training starten. [Super-Rückruf](https://clickercat.ch/super-rueckruf/): Der wichtigste Life-Skill für deine Katze Ich freue mich, dass du wieder reingehört hast. Hab ganz viel Spass mit deinen Katzen Alles Liebe Chris

At Animal Training Academy, we understand your passion. You're dedicated to mastering your animal training skills using a force-free approach. You're driven by the desire to handle the myriad of challenges that come your way, equipped with a broad knowledge & experience base. But like all of us, there are times you hit rough patches in your training journey. These challenges can sometimes leave you feeling overwhelmed & helpless. It's disheartening, especially when you have so much love and dedication for what you do. We believe everyone should be empowered to positively impact the lives of the animal and human learners they come into contact with. Enter our guides for this episode: Dr. Susan Friedman and Rick Hester. Rick Hester has extensive experience at the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo. He's worked with a diverse range of species from penguins to African lions. Collaborating with experts like Dr. Susan Friedman, Rick has deepened his understanding of behaviour analysis. His work at the zoo and his role as an adjunct faculty at Colorado State University showcase his dedication to the field. Dr. Susan G. Friedman, a global influencer in the realm of animal behavior, is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. Her work, translated into multiple languages, has been instrumental in shaping the understanding of animal behaviour across the world. In this episode, they'll guide you to: Understand the concept of the four freedoms: Freedom to Initiate, Freedom to Form, Freedom to Repeat, and Freedom of Pace. Dive deep into real-world examples with penguins and elephants at the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo in Colorado. Brainstorm and strategize on how to integrate this newfound knowledge into your work, enhancing your ability to meet your animals' needs and improve their welfare. So, are you ready to elevate your training skills? Dive in and listen to this enlightening podcast episode. Our goal at Animal Training Academy is to support you in avoiding the pitfalls of embarrassment, overwhelm, and burnout. By equipping you with the right knowledge and tools, we aim to help you build resilience to setbacks, get more organized, and continuously grow your training skills. Ultimately, we envision you confidently navigating your journey, leading a fulfilling life, and making a positive impact on both animal and human learners. Listen to the episode now and embark on a transformative journey in animal training. Links Learn more from Dr Friedman and get in touch with both her and Rick here >>> https://www.behaviorworks.org/

Dr. Susan G. Friedman, professor emeritus from the Department of Psychology at Utah State University is well known among the zoological community for her expertise in behavior change and learning. She consults for a variety of animal organizations and facilities, is a frequent speaker at professional meetings, and her written work has been translated into well over a dozen languages. According to her website, BehaviorWorks.org, the behavior of individuals is always the study of one. She discusses the importance of providing choice to animals and how we can infer what animals are thinking or feeling by their observable behavior and the context in which it occurs. Animal Care Software

Dr. Susan G. Friedman, Ph.D. is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. Susan has co-authored chapters on behavior change in five veterinary texts, and her popular articles have been translated into 17 languages. She teaches seminars and courses on animal learning online (How Behavior Works: Living & Learning With Animals), with students from 63 countries so far. Susan also consults with zoos and animal organizations around the world. She was appointed to the F&WS California Condor Recovery Team from 2002 – 2010, after which time the team was retired due to the success of the birds in the wild. She is the Chairperson of the Scientific Advisory Committee of American Humane Association (AHA) Film and TV Unit, and a member in good standing of ABAI, ABMA, IAATE and IAABC. For links visit here >>> https://atamember.com/2023/05/08/function-assessments/

XRP - Keep Your Money Safe - Liquidity to Save the Global Market - White House Against Crypto In recent tweets and articles in the cryptocurrency industry show a division between those who support the regulation of digital assets and those who oppose it. Some individuals, such as Ripple's Susan Friedman at Ripple, voice their optimism for the institutional adoption of cryptocurrencies and believe that constructive dialogue about meaningful regulation can benefit the industry. Stephen Chip, expressed concern over the White House's report that blasted digital assets and the government's opposition to business growth and innovation. In addition to the debate over regulation, there were other noteworthy events in the industry, such as the availability of XRP options on a major exchange and Taiwan's announcement to regulate the crypto industry. There were also concerns raised over Central Bank Digital Currencies (CBDCs) and their potential impact on individual control and privacy, with some individuals proposing a ban on CBDCs. *SUPPORT ON THE CHAIN* JOIN THE CHANNEL https://otc.one/join OTC MERCH https://onthechain.shop BUY US A COFFEE https://otc.one/buy-us-a-coffee Support ON THE CHAIN https://otc.one/support -------------- *ON THE CHAIN* SUBSCRIBE TO THE OTC PODCAST: https://otc.one/podcast Subscribe to our other Youtube Channel: https://otc.one/onthechain On The Web: https://onthechain.io Follow OTC on Twitter: https://otc.one/otc Join On The Chain Community on Twitter https://twitter.com/i/communities/1599435678995062788 Join our FREE Telegram Roundtable channel: https://t.me/onthechain_roundtable -------------- *JEFF* Follow Jeff on Twitter: https://otc.one/jeff -------------- *CHIP* Follow Chip on Twitter: https://otc.one/chip Listen to Chip's music http://nojoyyet.com​ -------------- *DISCLAIMER:* _All opinions expressed by content contributors that appear on OTC are solely expressing their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of OTC, its affiliates, or sponsors. Content contributors may have previously disseminated information on a social media platform, website, or another medium such as a podcast, television, or radio. OTC, Content Contributors, Affiliates, or Sponsors are not obligated to update or correct any information. The content contributors are sharing the information which they believe to be reliable. OTC, its affiliates, or sponsors cannot guarantee the accuracy of the opinion shared, and viewers, readers, and listeners should not rely on it. Opinions expressed are not financial advice. Please consult a licensed financial advisor before making any financial decisions. You must research before you invest in anything. Do not invest based on what someone else is doing or not doing, or based on other people's opinions._ #XRP #Ripple

In today's episode of The Metaverse Podcast, we talk to Susan Friedman (Ripple's Head of Policy) and Andrew Whitworth (EMEA Policy Director), with the mission to build breakthrough crypto solutions for a world without economic borders. Susan and Andrew are joined by our host and CEO, Jamie Burke, discussing the industry's policy framework, with a focus on the UK. If you are a Web3 founder, investor, or simply interested in the state of the regulation in the crypto industry, this episode is for you. You will: Get an overview of the current crypto regulation in different countries; Understand what the outcome of the SEC v. Ripple case means for founders; Find out more about the new Ripple's regulatory paper, called 'Block by Block'; Discover why Ripple chose London as a regional hub and why the UK has an advantage when it comes to creating crypto policies; Learn why Ripple is advocating for a comprehensive, risk-sensitive policy framework for regulation of crypto companies in the UK. #web3 #ripple #cryptoregulation #uklegislation #crypto #xrp #blockchainsolution #eupolicy #mica ------------   Whether you're a founder, investor, developer, or just have an interest in the future of the Open Metaverse, we invite you to hear from the people supporting its growth. Outlier Ventures is the Open Metaverse accelerator, helping over 100 Web3 startups a year. You can apply for startup funding here - https://ov.click/pddsbcq122 Questions? Join our community: Discord - https://ov.click/pddssodcq122 Telegram - https://ov.click/pddssotgq122 Twitter - https://ov.click/pddssotwq122 LinkedIn - https://ov.click/pddssoliq122 More - https://ov.click/pddslkq122 For further Open Metaverse content: Listen to The Metaverse Podcast - https://ov.click/pddsmcq122 Sign up for our quarterly live events at - https://ov.click/pddsdfq122 Check out our portfolio - https://ov.click/pddspfq122 Thanks for listening!

Last week we heard from Dr. Susan Friedman and one of the topics we discussed was observation. This week we're going to dive further into some learning foundations and talk about implementation with the animals in your life.And, because there's like… a lot… of learning foundations, this is part 1 of part 2. In this implementation episode, Emily and Allie talk about:Why we're better togetherWhy sometimes your dog barks at people and sometimes they don'tHow to better predict your pet's behaviorYou can find the full show notes here. 

In this week's interview episode, we are joined by Dr. Susan G Friedman Ph.D. For those of you who have had the pleasure of hearing Susan talk before, you know that this is going to be a great episode full of nuggets that you can apply to your animal training, but also just to your life in general.Susan walks the walk when it comes to implementing what they know about behavior in all facets of life. In this episode, you're going to hear Emily and Susan talk about: Learners are learners are learnersDo you actually need to teach that behavior? Unnatural solutions for natural behaviors.Content WarningWe wanted to provide a content warning for this episode because we do discuss some difficult topics such as ABA practices with human learners and the not so great history of the development of what least intrusive practices have looked like over the past few decades. So this content warning is to empower you, our audience, with the knowledge you need to make healthy decisions about how and if you should consume this podcast content.Discussion of ABA practices with human learners from 32:11-47:28. You can find the full show notes here. 

When standing in front of a giraffe training partner, Amy is acutely aware of how lucky she is to have been surrounded by such amazing people and animals throughout her life.  All of those people have led her to her current role, which is the Senior Animal Behaviorist for the International Center for the Care and Conservation of Giraffe.  The organization is run by the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, and partners with Dr. Susan Friedman and The Behavior Works Team.  She's dabbled in field research, veterinary nursing, and zookeeping. While exploring all of the options of where she could best focus her time and energy to make a difference, she discovered the science of behavior change! ABA has changed how she's wors with both animals and people throughout the years. She enjoys coaching training sessions, running giraffe workshops, and continuing to learn from others. For links visit here >>> https://atamember.com/2023/01/02/amy-schliz-2/

When standing in front of a giraffe training partner, Amy is acutely aware of how lucky she is to have been surrounded by such amazing people and animals throughout her life.  All of those people have led her to her current role, which is the Senior Animal Behaviorist for the International Center for the Care and Conservation of Giraffe.  The organization is run by the Cheyenne Mountain Zoo, and partners with Dr. Susan Friedman and The Behavior Works Team.  She's dabbled in field research, veterinary nursing, and zookeeping. While exploring all of the options of where she could best focus her time and energy to make a difference, she discovered the science of behavior change! ABA has changed how she's wors with both animals and people throughout the years. She enjoys coaching training sessions, running giraffe workshops, and continuing to learn from others. For links visit here >>> https://atamember.com/2022/12/19/amy-schliz/

Incompatible behaviour & positive punishment is a topic from a quote that we posted on our instagram some months back. The quote was from Dr. Susan Friedman and it says. "The key question is not, how do I stop this problem behaviour? Rather, the question is, what do I want the animal to do instead, then teach it." It's a good quote with plenty of merit. There are many who have taken it and have inferred that in order to do this justice, it can only be by way of teaching incompatible behaviours so the dog cannot perform the old behaviour. We feel that incompatible behaviour is certainly a consideration, however it's limiting by not addressing punishment. In this episode we discussed the ramifications of just this. Further details looking for great dog trainers and supporters of the canine paradigm? Below is a vast array of people and business's who stand by us, donate to our running costs and do great things for the canine community. Glenn runs and has almost everything canine related at, Canine Evolution or Pet Resorts Australia Pat has a full range of coaching and dog training services at Operant Canine You can support our show and get extra content right here on our Patreon page. Everything goes into keeping the show running and we love all the wonderful people who are part of that community. If you're not sure how, just ask us. You can get our full range of our Merch at our Teespring store here You can help us by spreading the word amongst the canine community or even suggesting a special guest to interview. If you need to find out how to listen to our podcast, go here We have a YOUTUBE channel that you can subscribe to now If you enjoyed the podcast, please review us on Itunes, spotify and any other podcast directory Details on joining the IACP can be found here. If you're not in it you should be! Truth! Check out Dogs Playing for Life! A rescue process changing dogs lives across the USA For more details on how to help our friends at Peggy's Promise, you can find all the details on how to do that on their website. They are our rescue charity of choice. Support our supporters Narelle Cooke's raw feeding guide for dogs here. Narelle has her own podcast on all podcast directories called Natural Health for people and pets. Check it out in person. Looking for the best, human grade supplement range for your dogs? Check out Canine Ceuticals SHOW SPONSOR Jason Firmin Einzweck Dog quip SHOW SPONSOR The motorcycle dog kennel by Rowdy Hound SHOW SPONSOR Professional dog training services DanKroft K9 SHOW SPONSOR Our beloved friend and regular contributor, Birdy O'Sheedy can be found at birdyosheedy.com and you can see her baby puppy on her instagram HUGE thanks to all our contributing artists. Please support their works Jane StuartAvery KellerZoie Neidy

Laura Perkins resides in Michigan with her husband, 2 dogs and 2 cats. They are eagerly anticipating the arrival of their baby daughter in December!   Currently, Laura provides 1-1 behavior consulting for families and their dogs through her business Laura Perkins Animal Behavior.  She also provides virtual services through Kiki Yablon Dog Training.  For the first time this summer Laura served as a TA for Susan Friedman's Living and Learning with Animals course.   Laura began training dogs as a young kind in 4-h where she was introduced to what we would today call “balanced training”.  Her “aha” moment regarding clicker training and positive reinforcement based methods was via an agility instructor who used Laura's dog Sammy as a demo to free shape getting on the table and laying down.  This was the moment that led Laura to pursue an understanding of how this stuff works!   Laura graduated from the University of Illinois in 2009 with a bachelor's degree in Animal Science.  She wasn't satisfied with her learning regarding behavior specifically so she went on to pursue a master's degree in Applied Behavior Analysis at the University of North Texas where she graduated in 2012.  There she studied with Jesús-Rosales-Ruiz and was an active member of the ORCA lab (Organization for Reinforcement Contingencies with Animals).   Between graduate school and now, Laura has worked at a doggy daycare, has served as the behaviorist on staff at a county shelter in Oregon, and has continued to grow her business.   Laura's dog hobbies are doing nosework, obedience and occasionally some at-home agility with her two dogs Dan (Herding Dog Multi Blend) and Doug (Border Collie).  Outside of dog training, Laura enjoys hiking, gardening and is learning to play the guitar. For links CLICK HERE >>> https://atamember.com/2022/11/04/laura-perkins/

Monty Gwynne, founder of Equispeak and a self-proclaimed training junkie, is passionate about sharing her decades of training experience.  This depth and breadth of her experiences with many different breeds and disciplines allows her to draw on them to better solve issues using R+.  Monty's training passions are classical dressage and driving.  Because of her long involvement in the horse world she is often called upon to help take and rehab ponies and minis who have been in difficult situations. Using R+ has been the saving grace for many of these rescues.  Monty's approach is based on shaping without frustration and is unique in the R+ horse community. The focus of Monty's journey is on bringing positive, science-based horse training to the forefront and working with people interested in discovering this powerful tool. Having seen the joy that positive reinforcement training brings to both partners in the horse - human relationship over the past 30+ years, there is no going back. Through her business, The Best Whisper is a Click, Peggy Hogan provides clicker training lessons, clinics, and online coaching, all focused on horses. She has been a horse-lover since the age of three when her sister put her on a pay-per-lap pony ride, loves all animals and has a passion for training. Her background in training includes N.H. and in-depth study of the teachings of Peggy Cummings, founder of Connected Riding. In the late 90's there was little information on using positive reinforcement with horses, so after an introduction from Alexandra Kurland, Peggy learned from clicker trainers of other species, as well as diving into the science behind the training with Dr. Susan Friedman. Peggy has investigated ways to add more shaping, capturing, luring, and targeting to her clicker training for horses program. Horses offer complex behaviors freely if given the choice, behaviors that apply to environments that range from agility to freestyle to medical procedures and Start Buttons. Peggy is currently teaming up with Monty Gwynne to reach the online community for teaching this amazing technology. For links, visit >>> https://atamember.com/2022/08/01/peggy-monty-2/

Monty Gwynne, founder of Equispeak and a self-proclaimed training junkie, is passionate about sharing her decades of training experience.  This depth and breadth of her experiences with many different breeds and disciplines allows her to draw on them to better solve issues using R+.  Monty's training passions are classical dressage and driving.  Because of her long involvement in the horse world she is often called upon to help take and rehab ponies and minis who have been in difficult situations. Using R+ has been the saving grace for many of these rescues.  Monty's approach is based on shaping without frustration and is unique in the R+ horse community. The focus of Monty's journey is on bringing positive, science-based horse training to the forefront and working with people interested in discovering this powerful tool. Having seen the joy that positive reinforcement training brings to both partners in the horse - human relationship over the past 30+ years, there is no going back. Through her business, The Best Whisper is a Click, Peggy Hogan provides clicker training lessons, clinics, and online coaching, all focused on horses. She has been a horse-lover since the age of three when her sister put her on a pay-per-lap pony ride, loves all animals and has a passion for training. Her background in training includes N.H. and in-depth study of the teachings of Peggy Cummings, founder of Connected Riding. In the late 90's there was little information on using positive reinforcement with horses, so after an introduction from Alexandra Kurland, Peggy learned from clicker trainers of other species, as well as diving into the science behind the training with Dr. Susan Friedman. Peggy has investigated ways to add more shaping, capturing, luring, and targeting to her clicker training for horses program. Horses offer complex behaviors freely if given the choice, behaviors that apply to environments that range from agility to freestyle to medical procedures and Start Buttons. Peggy is currently teaming up with Monty Gwynne to reach the online community for teaching this amazing technology. For links, visit >>> https://atamember.com/2022/07/18/peggy-monty-1/ 

“It depends.” That's often the last thing that frustrated dog guardians want to hear in their search for answers. And as much as we want to give them the black-and-white responses they're after, Certified Separation Anxiety Trainers (CSATS) often can't. Because it really does depend when it comes to separation anxiety training. In this podcast episode, special guest Ally Verba of Training with Allyand I discuss why this is often case: Because every dog is a study of one. Cookie cutter approaches don't account for the individual dog's environment, learning history, experiences, health and so much more. And as Ally and I note, all those things have a huge impact on the dog's trajectory. In this episode of the Believe in Your Dog Podcast, you will learn:  What, exactly, we mean when we say that each dog is a study of oneHow this principle comes into play with home alone training specificallySome common examples of questions that we answer with the “it depends” response and whyHow you can start to find the answers to these nuanced questions on your ownWhy cookie cutter training plans often failHow to be discerning when consuming information on social media about home alone trainingAnd so much more! Resources mentioned in this episode:Ally's InstagramAlly's WebsiteAlly's PodcastAlly's Home Alone Training Academy ProgramAlly's Home Alone: Four Phases to Comfort DIY CourseUse code BELIEVE15 for 15% offTraining with Ally scholarshipAdherence to the Study of One: A Disclaimer  Podcast With Jackie and Ally on Data TrackingDr. Susan Friedman's WebsiteDr. Susan Friedman's Living & Learning With Animals Online CourseDoggie Language Bravo Dog Training's Body Language Course

Shalina works as a dog trainer in Toronto, Canada. After completing the intensive internship program at When Hounds Fly, she then earned her CPDT-KA certification. Although her love of dogs began in childhood, her passion for science and psychology was born in university. After graduating with her degree in Psychology, she began to dive into animal psychology and learning theory. Keeping up with the latest "dog science" is what drives her to improve to become as effective and humane as possible. After spending some time on dog training social media, it became apparent to her how critical it was to begin tackling some of the misinformation on Instagram and TikTok. She loves creating educational content on social media to help pet parents navigate the dog training world. Online advocacy work will continue to be a huge priority for her. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/indydoestricks/ TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@indydoestricks Ko-fi: https://ko-fi.com/shalinaseifert Five Freedoms of Animal Welfare: These Five Freedoms are globally recognized as the gold standard in animal welfare, encompassing both the mental and physical well-being of animals; they include: 1. freedom from hunger and thirst 2. freedom from discomfort 3. freedom from pain, injury, and disease 4. freedom to express normal and natural behavior (e.g. accommodating for a chicken's instinct to roost) 5. freedom from fear and distress. Hierarchy of Dog Needs: http://www.dogpsychologistoncall.com/hierarchy-of-dog-needs-tm/ Sources of Information about Canine Body Language: Doggie Language book by Lili Chin available on Amazon Lili Chin on Instagram: @doggielanguagebook Georgie Bleza on Instagram: @TrickWoofs Dominika on Instagram @Dogmeets_baby KikoPup on YouTube Other episodes to check out: Doggie Language with Lili Chin How to Choose a Dog Trainer with Zazie Todd, PhD Methods Matter with Karen London, PhD Exploring Extinction with Susan Friedman, PhD

Belinda Young Bio Belinda stepped into the world of animal training in early 2010, while working as a veterinary nurse and being tasked with running puppy pre-school classes. In the same year, she was fortunate enough to attend a parrot conference and learn about applied behaviour analysis and learning theory from the likes of Dr Susan Friedman, Nic Bishop, and Jim McKendry. That was all it took to become hooked! In 2013, while completing her Certificate 4 in Companion Animal Services through the Delta Institute in Australia, she took the plunge and started a companion animal training business - Treat. Play. Love. This has been Belinda's full-time job since 2016, when she left vet nursing for good.  Through her business, Belinda works with families and their pet dogs, cats, and parrots. She especially enjoys showing people just how fun training can be with moden, reward-based training methods. Belinda works with clients on basic training problems as well as significant behavioural challenges, such as leash reactivity and separation anxiety.  In addition to working with training clients, Belinda has been employed to teach veterinary students at JCU Vet School in Townsville about parrot behaviour and training, has spoken at Australian conferences, and worked with vet clinics, doggy daycares, and other animal professionals to educate team members on a range of training and behaviour topics. Belinda relocated to Sydney, Australia, in late 2021, where she continues to offer one-on-one training services for all species of companion animals. For links visit HERE -  https://atamember.com/2022/06/06/belinda-young/ 

Susan G. Friedman, Ph.D. is a professor emeritus in the Department of Psychology at Utah State University. Susan has co-authored chapters on behavior change in five veterinary texts, and her popular articles have been translated into 17 languages. She teaches seminars and courses on animal learning online (How Behavior Works: Living & Learning With Animals), with students from 60 countries so far. Susan also consults with zoos and animal organizations around the world. Susan was appointed to the F&WS California Condor Recovery Team from 2002 – 2010, after which time the team was retired due to the success of the birds in the wild. She is the Chairperson of the Scientific Advisory Committee of American Humane Association (AHA) Film and TV Unit, and a member in good standing of ABAI, ABMA, IAATE and IAABC. Website: www.behaviorworks.org Facebook: www.facebook.com/behaviorworks If you want to work with me, Susan Light, you can find me at: www.doggydojopodcast.com The music was written by Mac Light, you can find him at: www.maclightsongwriter.com If you like the show, please Subscribe, Rate, Review, and Share to help others find the show! I'll see you in two weeks with a brand new episode of the Doggy Dojo!

Digital Asset regulation is a controversial subject, but most experts argue that a framework is necessary to protect investors and outline clear guidelines for innovation.Rutger's Law Professor, Yulia Guseva, guides us through US crypto-regulation, and sheds light on global environments to navigate various legislative positions toward cryptocurrency.  Leading her through this juicy, in-depth conversation, whether you have a predilection for the law or not, is Ripple's Head of Public Policy and Vice Chair of Blockchain for Europe, Susan Friedman. This session gives us an understanding of what the current challenges are with the United States catching up to other countries' crypto policy.AND Thank you Feedspot for the Top Blockchain Podcast nod.

After humble beginnings with Bob Bailey's chicken camps, Scotti Harvey has spent the last 15 years as a committed educator of applied animal behavior and learning science. Scotti is a graduate of the Karen Pryor Academy, a Certified Separation Anxiety Trainer, a Puppy Start Right Instructor and Fear Free Trainer, a City and Guilds Scent Detection Dog Handler, UKCSD Scent Instructor and the founder of the animal training and consulting service, Why Runamuck. Scotti's expertise is in the impact of early-life learning on later-life behavior. She has studied with trainers and behaviorists like Terry Ryan, Ken Ramirez, Susan Friedman, and Steve Martin, and she has attended a variety of national and international workshops and courses, like the University of Edinburgh's Animal Welfare Course, Dr. Susan Friedman's Learning and Living With Animals, the Behavior Adjustment Training Instructor's Course, the NEI's Contemporary Animal Training and Management program, Ken Ramirez's Advanced Animal Training, and Marie Fogelquist's Polar Bear Training at Orsa Bjornpark.  In 2014, Scotti participated in a collaborative training project between KPA and Guide Dogs for the Blind that sought new and innovative ways to incorporate positive training protocols into their puppy-raising curriculum. Scotti herself is a longtime breeder of Icelandic sheepdogs, and she has studied and observed 13 litters of puppies, learning from them while exploring avenues to mitigate behavioral issues through carefully crafted and deconstructed early-life experiences.  Scotti spends most of her professional life helping canine co-habitators navigate the hiccups and tricky bits of living alongside another species, as well as collaborating with canine caregivers—breeders, fosters, shelter workers, and veterinarians—to identify ways to improve puppy rearing strategies. She is currently writing a book on those early socialization strategies and the deconstruction of puppy exposures.

In this episode, I welcome Susan Friedman, Amazing Certified Professional Speaker, 17-time author, Founder of Aviva Publishing, Award winning host of Book Marketing Mentors Podcast to talk about none of that!!  Instead, we talk about international travel, and Susan shares some of her amazing stories about the discomforts and amazing life-changing experiences she's had traveling all over the world, from a 14 year old accidentally telling her host family she was pregnant (that's not what she meant!) to using sign language to get around Southeast Asia.  This episode is chock full of fun, and it will make you want to renew your passport, and get out there in the world.  Enjoy!   Susan Friedmann, CSP (certified speaking professional) international bestselling author of 17 books, is on a mission to wipe out sameness and add vitality and differentiation to your author marketing.  Through her company, Aviva Publishing, she's guided hundreds of non-fiction authors to use their books to become a trusted expert authority in their field.Grab a free e-book from Susan 3 False Book Marketing Beliefs Or book a 20-minute marketing consulting session FREE!  BrainstormWithSusan.comCheck out all her books here.

We made it! Chris and Ari sit down with Steve Martin to chat about the history of the TEC Talk podcast, to reflect on the special contributions sent in by some of the past presenters from our TEC Talks webinars, and to share our hopes for the future of our industry.  Big thank yous go out to Ann Brooks, Wouter Stellaard, Rick Hester, Dr Susan Friedman, Amy Fennell, Tim Van Loan, and Marty MacPhee for contributing to this episode! Have a question or an idea for a topic for one of our next 100 episodes? Drop us a line at podcast@naturalencounters.com!

In this episode, Mara Velez (CPDT-KA) and I discuss how the Shelter Playgroup Alliance was created, developing best practices for safer shelter dog playgroups, how to match more compatible playmates, how to reinforce play breaks, and assessing organizational risk tolerance. This interview was recorded on May 10, 2021.Mara Velez's bio:Mara Velez is the board secretary for the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants (IAABC), a certified professional dog trainer (CPDT-KA), and has spent more than a decade in sheltering at both open-admission and limited-admission facilities. She is the executive director for the Shelter Playgroup Alliance (SPA), a shelter enrichment educational organization that helps shelters implement enrichment programs, including playgroups. Mara is also the executive director of Humane Dog Training Advocates (HDTA), an owner-education focused nonprofit that aims to keep dogs in homes through education and training support. Mara holds both a bachelor's and master's degree in psychology and completed all of the course work for a doctorate in education. She completed Trish King's Canine Behavior Academy (CBA), levels I & II; Dr. Susan Friedman's Living and Learning with Animals (LLA); The Karen Pryor Academy Professional Animal Training program (KPA); and more than 2,500 hours of animal-related continuing education. Mara is also a learning and development consultant to corporations across a variety of industries, where she advises and works on projects related to leadership development, process improvement, and learning program management.Links:Shelterdogplay.org Shelter Dog Playgroup GuidelinesMara's email: mara@shelterdogplay.orgTheme music composed and performed by Andy Sells

In this episode, Cheryl and Susan discuss: Susan has written 17 books Going from unknown author to expert authority How to use the GEL formula for success The “Stage to Page” method of starting your book Figuring out who your book is for Key Takeaways: How to use your book to get rich in your niche The reason you start doing something is not always the reason you continue it Writing your book is only a small step, selling it is even harder To create a book that sells takes a team, don't try it on your own   "Get your thoughts down, it doesn't matter if it's grammatically correct or not, it's the thoughts that are important. Because your thoughts can always be developed by what's known as a developmental editor who can help you put those thoughts into a cohesive manner." —  Susan Friedman Connect with Susan: Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/avivapubs/ Website: https://www.avivapubs.com/ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/susanfriedmann/ https://www.linkedin.com/company/avivapublishing/ Get in Touch with Cheryl: Website: www.cherylknows.com  YouTube:  https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCwvWKXBC6fKn1dLGY11hxIg Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/dynamiteproductionsinc LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cherylknowlton/   Show notes by Podcastologist: Justine Talla   Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

The second guest on Barking From The Wooftops is Dr. Susan Friedman. Susan requires little introduction. She is one of the highest regarded, world-renowned experts in the field of animal behaviour. Susan had a profound effect on Jim's career. He attended her paradigm-shifting seminar "Living & Learning with Animals". I'm super excited and truly honoured she was kind enough to join us for this in-depth conversation on the podcast For those of you not familiar with Susan, here is her profile: - psychology professor at Utah State University who has pioneered the application of Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA) to captive and companion animals. - students from 22 different countries have participated in Susan's online courses, Living and Learning with Animals (including myself and I can't recommend it highly enough). - Susan has presented seminars internationally for a wide variety of professional organizations such as the Association of Avian Veterinarians, the European Association of Zoos and Aquaria, Moorpark College Exotic Animal Training and Management Program, and NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center. - Susan has been nominated for the Media Award given by the International Association of Behavior Analysis for her efforts to disseminate to pet owners, veterinarians, animal trainers, and zookeepers. - Susan has 14 publications and is cited many times Susan runs the amazing website, https://www.behaviorworks.org/ (Behaviour Works) We would love to hear from you in terms of what specific areas you would like us to discuss in the future. Use the contact form https://quitethethingmedia.com/barking-from-the-wooftops/ (here) to get in contact, or find the show on https://www.facebook.com/BFTWpodcast (Facebook) and https://twitter.com/Barkingwooftops (Twitter). You can find video content from Barking From The Wooftops on https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCf7g3O0uXrM88uiH9Iy6NsA?fbclid=IwAR0M0xOHPkYgby1iBQCBnZVRph-nyB4TZxdft84i3WGm8_dsZs6VvOXqmec (Youtube) too. A member of https://quitethethingmedia.com/glasgower/ (Glasgower) This podcast uses the following third-party services for analysis: Chartable - https://chartable.com/privacy

Susan Friedman, Ph.D and psychology professor at Utah State University, shares her insights today about the impact that understanding Applied Behavior Analysis can have on a trainer's work. Her course "Living and Learning with Animals: The Fundamental Principles and Procedures of Teaching and Learning" remains the only course that I believe should be required learning for all animal trainers. Here why in this podcast and what you can do to learn from this industry legend. See her courses at BehaviorWorks.org, next professional course begins Jan 2021. About the Host: Ines McNeil the founder of The Modern Dog Trainer blog, The Crossover Trainer blog, and her own local dog training business, All Positive Dog Training in New York. She is a certified professional dog trainer (CPDT-KA) and also has a background in digital marketing strategy and business consulting. She is able to mix her expertise in each field to provide the most relevant and actionable tips for dog trainers and their businesses. She has been studying and working with dogs for over 10 years and enjoys helping people regain tranquility in their lives with modern dog training techniques. Now, she helps modern dog trainers establish successful businesses so that they in-turn can help more dog owners and dogs live happy, enriched lives together. The Modern Dog Trainer Podcast provides the best dog training business tips for modern dog trainers. Learn alongside the industry's leading professionals as we discuss relevant dog training news, dog behavior theories, business practices, and more! Visit our website for articles, courses, and FREE templates and downloads for your training business: TheModernDogTrainer.net

"Effectiveness is not enough" is something I say a lot (quoting Dr. Susan Friedman), and I mean it. R+ (positive reinforcement) is a VERY powerful and effective way to teach our horses behaviors we would like them to do and know, but it's not inherently more ethical or "morally sound" way of training. I explain why in this episode and also share some of the ways I modify my training to focus on ethical training practices. ✦ www.TheWillingequine.com✦ Instagram.com/TheWillingEquine ✦ YouTube.com/TheWillingEquine ✦ Facebook.com/TheWillingEquine ✦ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thewillingequine/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/thewillingequine/support

Summary: Kathy Sdao is an applied animal behaviorist. She has spent 30 years as a full-time animal trainer, first with marine mammals and now with dogs and their people. She currently owns Bright Spot Dog Training where she consults with families about their challenging dogs, teaches private lessons to dogs and their owners, and coaches novices and professionals to cross over to positive-reinforcement training. She's been interviewed pretty much everywhere worth reading — at least as far as dog info is concerned — consulted with organizations including Guide Dogs for the Blind, appeared on Bill Nye the Science Guy, and is one of the original faculty members for Karen Pryor's long-running ClickerExpos. She is also the author of Plenty in Life is Free: Reflections on Dogs, Training, and Finding Grace. Links Plenty in Life is Free: Reflections on Dogs, Training, and Finding Grace (via Dogwise) www.kathysdao.com Next Episode:  To be released 5/4/2018, featuring Michele Pouliot, talking about being a change-maker in the dog world. TRANSCRIPTION: Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high-quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today we'll be talking to Kathy Sdao -- Kathy is an applied animal behaviorist. She has spent 30 years as a full-time animal trainer, first with marine mammals and now with dogs and their people. She currently owns Bright Spot Dog Training where she consults with families about their challenging dogs, teaches private lessons to dogs and their owners, and coaches novices and professionals to cross over to positive-reinforcement training. She's been interviewed pretty much everywhere worth reading — at least as far as dog info is concerned — consulted with organizations including Guide Dogs for the Blind, appeared on Bill Nye the Science Guy, and is one of the original faculty members for Karen Pryor's long-running ClickerExpos. She is also the author of Plenty in Life is Free: Reflections on Dogs, Training, and Finding Grace. I'm incredibly thrilled to have her here today! Hi Kathy! Welcome to the podcast. Kathy Sdao: Hi Melissa. Thanks so much for the invitation. This is going to be fun. Melissa Breau: To start us out, do you mind just sharing a little bit about your own dogs and anything you're working on with them? Kathy Sdao: What an embarrassing way to start! I currently have just one dog of my own. His name is Smudge. He's a … who knows what he is. He's a mixed breed. Let's call him a Catahoula mixed breed. He's about 3 years old, and as I'm reminded after my walk in the woods with him this morning that the combination of young man in a hoodie on a skateboard with an off-leash dog running beside this young man — too much for Smudge to deal with on our walk in the woods, so rather than dog sports, I'm still training this young dog that the world is full of interesting adventures and you really don't have to bark at them when they startle you. So we're still doing real-world training just getting him out with me every day in my environment here in Tacoma, Washington, which is beautiful. We spend a lot of time outside. I also am very good friends with the magnificent Michele Pouliot, and she has offered to choreograph a freestyle routine for Smudge and me, and I feel like that would be crazy for me not to take her up on that. So if I ever dip my toe into the water of dog sports, it's likely to be freestyle, because I have an awesome friend offering to help me. Melissa Breau: That's fantastic, and hey, I can't blame him. I think that if a guy showed up suddenly and surprised me wearing a hoodie and a skateboard with a dog running next to him, I might be a little startled too. Kathy Sdao: I was having such a peaceful walk, and then we turned a corner and I'm like, Uh-oh, this isn't going to work. Fortunately, that kid was really nice about it. We all kind of laughed, so it ended up well, but anyway, training goes on, right? Melissa Breau: Absolutely. How did you originally get into training? Can you share a little bit on your background? Kathy Sdao: When I do Career Days at schools. I think kids always think it was planned, like “You had a plan.” I didn't have a plan. I was a premed student in college and took an elective, animal behavior, a psych course, which I thought, That'll be easy. The professor, Dr. Pat Ebert, had a need of someone to help her with some research she was doing and just happened to be at the aquarium where I lived in Niagara Falls, New York. She needed a research assistant, and I went to the aquarium and did some observation work there and fell into the rabbit hole and quit premed and changed my major to psychology. My beloved dad will turn 97 years old next month, and he still has not gotten over the shock that his daughter left premed to do this crazy career he has never once understood. So it was serendipity that got me to that aquarium where I ended up training my first animal, a harbor seal. My professor, Dr. Ebert, passed away very suddenly and at a very young age, 32, from liver cancer, and I don't know, I always felt like there's some way to pass the gauntlet on to me to study the science of animal learning and be brave about it. I applied to graduate school after I got my bachelor's degree in fields that could study animal behavior, and all the schools I was going to study either rats or pigeons, except the University of Hawaii, where I would be studying dolphins. I got accepted to the University of Hawaii to study dolphins, got accepted to Rutgers to study rats, it wasn't much of a choice: Newark to study rats or Honolulu to study dolphins. That was the beginning. The second animal I learned to train was a dolphin at the University of Hawaii, so that started my career in a really different kind of way. Melissa Breau: I certainly understand that decision. I think most people would choose dolphins over rats or pigeons. Kathy Sdao: You know, it's funny, Melissa. Rutgers gave me a big scholarship and I turned it down and they really were mortified. They couldn't believe I was leaving money on the table there. In retrospect, I think I made a good choice. Melissa Breau: It certainly served you well. From dolphins to dogs, it's a pretty big bridge there. What led you to go from marine animals and zoo animals — because you did some of that, too, if you want to talk about that — to dogs? Kathy Sdao: When I was fortunate enough to start my career working with marine mammals, I actually worked in three different, amazing settings. For several years I worked at the University of Hawaii, when I was a graduate student, on the research done there that included, among other cool things, teaching sign language to bottlenose dolphins back in the 1980s. That was just an amazing way to start a training career. I got my masters degree and then was hired as one of the first women to work for the United States Navy's Department of Defense that was training dolphins at the time to do mine detection and detonation work, also a job in Hawaii, working to prepare those dolphins to be turned over to sailors to actually be in the military. Another amazing job and worked there for several years, and then decided that it was time, even though I loved Hawaii, to go to a place that was more reasonable to live, just cost of living-wise. Honolulu's gorgeous but expensive. There were two jobs on the mainland in the United States that year that I decided I was going to transition back to the mainland. One was at Disneyland in Orlando and one was at Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium in Tacoma, Washington. I never lived either place, I didn't know anybody in either place, but decided that I much more preferred the Pacific Northwest and so took a job as a staff biologist at Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium, and got to work with beluga whales and porpoises and sea lions and fur seals and walruses and polar bears and sea otters and an amazing collection of marine mammals. Having worked at the zoo for five years, though, realized it was a difficult job. It was tough physically, it can be tough emotionally — I know people are listening; if they've done some zoo work, it's challenging — and so made the decision that it was time to leave the zoo. But I didn't want to leave Tacoma, Washington. I still live here. I love it. So training dogs was my creative solution to earn a living and not have to move, and I can't even recall to you, Melissa, how humbling that switch was, because I was cocky enough to go, “Hey, I've trained really cool, big, exotic animals. Dogs are going to be a piece of cake.” And oh, they weren't. I really didn't know what I was doing at all, and quickly found out that I needed a lot more dog savvy if I was going to do a good job, and opened up the first dog daycare in Tacoma, Washington, back in the mid-1990s. Nobody had ever heard of a dog day care here. I had to get special zoning from the city. They thought we were nuts. But I opened that dog daycare to be able to get my eyeballs on dog behavior more and to be immersed in it. I know you've got listeners that work in dog daycares, own dog daycares, it's a good immersion process for the human to learn about dog behavior. So that was my entry into dog work, and started teaching classes at night in clicker training, and that was really new at the time, a new way to set up dog training classes back in the late 1990s, so haven't looked back since. And though I loved my time with marine mammals and other exotic species, I really don't miss it. I'm just as intrigued working with dogs and their people as I ever was with the exotics. Melissa Breau: You mentioned that there was a little bit of a transition there. Can you share some of the similarities and differences and what they were as you went from training dolphins and zoo animals to dogs? Kathy Sdao: I really look right now, when I'm looking for teachers for myself … it's interesting, Melissa. One of the reasons I asked you if you would be so kind as to delay our appointment for this recording was so that I could spend a couple of hours this morning listening yet again to my colleague and friend Dr. Susan Friedman. She was doing a webinar this morning on a topic I've heard her teach on before, but I'm like, No, I would like to listen to Dr. Friedman again. What I look for in my teachers when I'm making choices is I really love teachers who are transparent and authentic. So your question invites me to be transparent and authentic, because I'm going to say to you that transition, which should have been smooth in terms of training techniques, I really was able to learn to be a trainer in some extraordinary settings that really call out the best skills. People often say, “You know, it's amazing that the dolphins could learn that mine detection and detonation work,” and keep in mind the work I did for the Navy was classified, it is no longer classified, I can tell you about it. The dolphins' lives were not in danger. That sounds really dramatic, like we were risking the dolphins. We were not. The dolphins and the sailors, the military, all the personnel, all the military personnel, dolphins and people, moved away from the setting before anything was detonated. I don't want any listeners to think, oh my gosh, how cavalier I am about that training. It was as safe as possible for everybody. But in saying that, people go, “That's amazing you could teach that to the dolphins,” and I say, “No, no. What was amazing is every one of those dozens and dozens of dolphins that we took out to the open ocean every day had to jump back in our motorboats, our Boston whalers, to go back to their enclosures every evening, every afternoon, good training session, bad training session. They were free, and they had to choose to jump on a boat and come back to the enclosures.” When you have that as your school for learning, you get an ego. So I got an ego to go, “Hey, I trained open ocean dolphins. How hard is it to train dogs?” Not only was it hard, here's the thing I'm sort of dancing around that I'm humbled by. I didn't think dogs could be trained using the same methods as marine mammals. So I really, switching over species, switched training methods and apprenticed with a local balanced trainer. That wasn't a term at the time in the mid-'90s, but used leash corrections and also positive reinforcement, but all mixed together. So I learned how to pop a choke chain, and I trained that way for, I want to say, at least a year, with only the mildest cognitive dissonance in the back of my head going, Why would dogs be different than every other species I've ever worked with? But of course we've got a mythology about why dogs are different. We can tell that story about pack leaders and hierarchies, and we can spin a good tale about why all other animals can be trained using positive reinforcement and a marker signal, but not dogs, they need corrections. Karen Pryor, fortuitously, happened to be talking in Seattle. She was giving a seminar, and I went to the seminar because Karen's a friend, so I just like, Hey, I'll go visit Karen. I don't need to learn anything about training. Now I'm mortified to say that out loud. Karen started the weekend seminar — I still remember it, it was more than twenty years ago — Karen started the weekend seminar to this big room filled with dog trainers, hundreds of dog trainers, and she said, “I'd really be grateful if no one gave a leash correction over the time we're together this weekend. It's upsetting to me, and it's upsetting to the dogs and anybody who has to watch it.” And then she just went on to talk, and like, What? What is she talking about? There's going to be anarchy in here. What does she mean, no leash correction? I had no idea what she was talking about. Oh my gosh, I'm so glad I wandered into that seminar with her, because she started the dominoes falling in my mind to be able to say, Why, possibly, would you not do this with dogs? She was such a good friend and mentor to me, to help me be brave enough to teach classes in my city in a completely different way that dog training colleagues were saying to me, “Absolutely impossible. You're going to fail at this.” So I'm grateful to her and so many people that taught me that it was possible. But my transition was ugly, so if you saw me in that time of me trying to figure out, does all the learning and training I did with marine mammals for over a decade, does it really fit in with dogs? Aren't dogs different? And the answer really is, no, they're not. Good thing I could bring all my other skills into the training. It's a different way to train dogs, but I'd say it's a better way and it's certainly more fun. So that kept me going for a long time, because I don't think we all agree on that yet, so there's work to do. Melissa Breau: That's really interesting. It's a specific pivot point or turning point for you. At what point would you say you actually became, to steal a line from your website, focused on positive, unique solutions, and what has kept you interested in positive training and made you transition to that so completely? Kathy Sdao: I owned that dog daycare for several years, and then at some point felt like I could fledge from that work. It was good work, but it wasn't really feeding me, so I switched at that point to becoming a behavior consultant, becoming a certified applied animal behavior consultant. And so, at that point, to be able to help people create solutions for challenging problems — that brought out a different level of my knowledge than running a daycare. So I'd have to say it was at that point that you have to make decisions about … today we'd look at the Humane Hierarchy and we'd go, “Wow, that algorithm, that sort of model for choosing behavior interventions to be least intrusive for the learner” — I couldn't have given that language back in the late 1990s. That's in reality what I'm doing with the best teachers I can to help me, because I'm now entering people's lives and their families to help them resolve behavior problems with a family member, so that changes things. The idea of that algorithm for interventions, for our training methods with nonhuman learners, comes to us from the work that behavior analysts do with children. And so to make that line fuzzier, to stop saying “humans and animals” like that's a dichotomy, humans or animals, we are animals, and the that learning we do, the teaching we do with animals and people, I want there to be no line dividing those two. So to be able to say, to help a family understand they can help their dog become less aggressive through skilled behavior intervention that's mostly focused on positive reinforcement of alternative behaviors, if I can help a family do that, it changes their lives. It not only changes that dog's life, but if I do my job right, it helps that family become curious about how behavior works. And you know what? We all behave. I love the kids' book Everybody Poops. I want there to be a kids' book called Everybody Behaves. We had the zookeepers read the Everybody Poops kids' book. I'm not a parent of human children, but parents tell me, “Oh yeah, that's a classic book. We read Everybody Poops in our family.” Where's the book Everybody Behaves, so that you can understand if you can change the behavior in one family member, and it happens to be your four-legged dog, and you're successful at that, and you sort of had fun doing it, and you didn't have to be coercive, oh my gosh, then what does that open up for you in terms of all the other behavior change solutions you can come up with? The reason that's interesting to me is I like my species a lot. The colleagues I have that say, “Oh, I work with animals because I don't much like people” are in the wrong business. We should like our species, because I feel like we're doomed if we don't learn some better ways of interacting. So I honestly feel like I'm helping people learn about better ways of interacting. I'm teaching them nonviolence in an around-the-corner, sneaky way to go, “Yeah, we're just training your dog,” but not really. That's never how I'm going into a situation. I'm hoping we can all be learning together to be effective at the same time we're being nonviolent. There's tons of work to do on that. I'm never going to run out of work. It's a tall mountain to climb. Every dog that comes into my consultation office — I mean this sincerely — I'm still fascinated at the learning. I had a new … it's a new breed for me … I always joke when people first contact me and they say, “What do you know about this obscure breed?” Like, in other words, “Are you an expert in …?” My answer to this is “No, but I've trained like fifty different species. Does that count that I don't know?” So a new breed for me this month was a lovely, lovely client with two Berger Picards, Picardy Shepherds. Beautiful dogs, but the breeder talked my elderly client into taking two puppies — “As long as you're going to take one, why don't you take two?” Breeders! Breeders, breeders, breeders! Anyway, lovely woman, retired, her husband just retired, now have two very active herding puppies. As those dogs come into my office, and they've got some behavior issues, but just to watch them learn. Tuesday I was sitting on the floor with them, teaching them just basic behaviors, and to watch their behavior change and their agency kick in that they realized, wow, their behavior is controlling my click, I don't know, it never gets boring for me. I've been doing this for a long time, and I'm still as excited with each dog that comes in as I was in the beginning. Aren't I lucky? Melissa Breau: That's awesome, and it totally comes through in that answer. I do want to back up for a second, because you mentioned two things there that I'm curious. All listeners may not be familiar with what the Humane Hierarchy is, or what it means, and I was hoping you could briefly explain the phrase. Kathy Sdao: I shouldn't presume people know it, but I'm hoping it becomes a common term in our conversations about training, because, Melissa, you've been doing this a long time, too, you know trainers like to have opinions about what's the right way to do things. And unfortunately, at least in the United States, there aren't a lot of laws about what are the right ways to do things, and it's a Wild West out there, at least in my neck of the woods, about what's considered acceptable training practices. I've had two different clients come to me, new clients come to me, in the last couple of months, having gone to another local … we'll call it a trainer. Both of their dogs were in the course of a ten-week package of private lessons. In Week 6, both dogs were hung until they passed out, in Week 6, to make sure that the dogs knew who the leader was. Were hung until they passed out. This is acceptable training. It boggles my mind. So to be able to have an algorithm model to be able to say, “What's OK when you're intervening in another organism's behaviors? Is effectiveness all we care about, that it works?” I first learned of the Humane Hierarchy through Dr. Susan Friedman's teaching, and the easiest way, I think, to find out about it would be on her website, behaviorworks.org. I certainly think if you Googled “Humane Hierarchy in training,” you would see that it's a series of, the last time I looked at it, six levels of intervention. Six choices you would have as a trainer for how you could change your learner's behavior, starting from the least intrusive way, basically looking at the learner's physical environment and health situation, to the most intrusive way, Level 6, which would be positive punishment, and that there would be lots of cautions and prohibitions before you'd ever get to Level 6, and that often, if we're doing our jobs really in a skillful way, we never have to consider using positive punishment, the addition of something painful, pressuring, or annoying, contingent on our learner's behavior. Positive punishment is done so casually and flippantly in dog training, especially in the United States, without a second thought, and this sort of hierarchy of methods we might use really calls out our best practices to say we have a lot of other approaches to go through before we jump right to punishing our learner for behavior we find dangerous or destructive. So I think learning and conversation that continues around the Humane Hierarchy, which comes to us trainers from where? From the rules for behaviorist analysts working with children, human children. They can't just go in and do whatever they want. They have professional restrictions, as should we, as trainers. But that day is not here yet for us. It's coming, I hope. So I find that to be a really helpful model. It's not the only model out there, but it's the one I go to most often when I'm teaching and also when I'm being a consultant. Melissa Breau: Thank you. I appreciate you taking a moment just to break that down and explain it for everybody. And then you mentioned Everybody Poops, and I haven't read that book. So actually I'm curious. Can you give us the gist of what we can imply from the title? Kathy Sdao: You know what? I'm being really serious. I have not read it since I was a zookeeper and was required. I'm not kidding. It's a kids' book, I would think the age group is probably 4-year-olds, to be able to say to your child, “Poop is normal. Poop is good. Don't worry about your poop. We all poop. We've got this thing in common. It's cool.” It's actually a powerful message, like, “Wow, all right, there's nothing weird about that. Everybody poops.” But seriously, in the back of my head I've got this Everybody Behaves book, because if you understood behavior in one organism, seriously … I've got dear clients right now, they're just lovely, they've been my clients for a long time. I'm actually friends with the family now, and one of my clients has a 9-year-old son. As a birthday present he got the fish agility set from R2 Fish School, so 9-year-old boy, he's got his fish agility equipment. What he said to me when I saw him just two days ago, he said to me, “Kathy, I have a science fair coming up. Can you help me teach the fish to do weave poles?” I'm like, This is the best question I've ever been asked. Seriously, I'm so ecstatic I can't even stand it. That a 9-year-old would say, “For my science project I'm going to teach fish to do weave poles”? Aren't we hopeful what that 9-year-old boy is going to grow into, just for the good of the world? Seriously. Melissa Breau: That is so cool. Kathy Sdao: He is going to have the perfect approach to being a parent and a boss and a friend. He's got it at the age of 9, because he's going to teach that fish. And how do you teach the fish? The same way I taught the dolphins and the same way I teach the dogs. It's all the same learning, so that learning principals are general and everybody behaves. Figure it out with one and then it spreads. It's so exciting. So yes, I'm going to help Ryan with his goldfish-training project. We're in the process now of choosing the right fish. It's just making me very happy. Melissa Breau: I seriously hope you video some of that and share it, just because that's so cool. It's such a neat project. It's such a neat science project. Kathy Sdao: One of the most valuable books I've got on my shelf, and I will never sell it, it was vanity-published probably 20 years ago. The title of the book is How to Dolphin Train Your Goldfish, and the thing that made me buy it in the first place is the author, C. Scott Johnson, was a really high and bio-sonar Ph.D. at the Navy, seriously geeky researcher into sonar. He helped us set up some of the training for the dolphins. I'm like, That's such an odd name, C. Scott Johnson. I see it on a book list, I'm like, He wrote a book. It's a 20-page, black-and-white, vanity-published, it is not a high-end book, but it is a perfect description of teaching five tricks to a goldfish and it's brilliant. So now everybody's going to go on Amazon and try to find the book and it's impossible. I wrote to him once and said, “If you've got cases of this book in your garage, I can sell them for you, because it's awesome.” So I've got good resources to help Ryan, and yes, Melissa, it's a great tip. I will videotape. Melissa Breau: That's awesome. I wanted to ask you, as somebody who has been a full-time animal trainer for over 30 years now, and in dogs for quite a while too, how have you seen the field change? What changes are you maybe even seeing today? Kathy Sdao: Oh my gosh, how long do we have? Oh my gosh, the changes. I don't even know where to start. I just taught at my 35th ClickerExpo — 35th. I've gotten the honor and privilege of not only teaching but attending 35 ClickerExpos over 15 years with amazing faculty as my colleagues, oh my gosh. To look back at the first ClickerExpo 15 years ago, what we were teaching and talking about, and now? I wonder when is it that I need to retire, because everything's just moved beyond me. It's so, gosh, I feel like a dinosaur sometimes. So, first off, I already alluded to the idea that whatever species we train is not unique in how they learn. Now, they might be unique in what reinforces them, how we're going to choose our reinforcers, or how we're going to set up the environment, or what behaviors we might teach first, absolutely. But that doesn't mean that the actual laws of learning and that choice of what training methods we will use, maybe with the Humane Hierarchy as a reference for us on how to do that effectively without taking control away from our learner, to be able to say that's general throughout species, to me, that's new. I like that we're moving in that direction and stopping the conversation, or maybe not having so much of the conversation, that says, “Rottweilers learn this way, and they need this kind of training,” and “High-drive dogs, they need this particular kind of training.” I like that the conversation's moving to more general. In fact, even the terminology, my terminology, has changed from saying “the animal learned” to “the learner,” so we are actually using a noun that encompasses nonhuman animals and human animals. And actually even the word training is being replaced by the verb teaching. I'm liking that. It's just a reflection that we teach learners rather than train animals just is taking that it's not just politically correct, it's reflecting the science, which says we can use some of these general principals to our advantage and to the learner's advantage, right? Melissa Breau: Right. Kathy Sdao: Even the idea that we want to empower our learners, you know, when I started with dogs, that was heresy. You would empower the dog? You're supposed to be the leader. You're supposed to be in charge. This is not about empowering. It's about showing them their place. They need to learn deference. They need to learn their place in the hierarchy, and if they get that sorted out, all the good behavior will come along with it. To be able to say that your learner can not only make choices but … I'm so intrigued by this; this is kind of new learning to me and I'm still playing with it. So to be able to say, “Give your learner a way to say “no” to opt out of anything, opt out of a social contact, opt out of a husbandry behavior you've asked the dog to do.” If the dog says, “No, I don't feel like, it,” that we not only accept that no, we reinforce the no — this is like mind-blowing. What does that mean that you say to your learner, “You don't have to. You don't have to”? I'm just intrigued that this doesn't produce complete opting out, the animal doesn't want to do anything, you get no compliance at all. No, instead, you set the animal free to feel so brave and safe in your presence that they're not compelled or pressured to do behaviors. I don't know. I feel like this is a new conversation that I've had with colleagues, again not just about allowing animals to opt out, but reinforcing them for opting. Ken Ramirez talked about training beluga whales, a specific beluga whale, to have a buoy in the tank that she could press with her big old beluga melon, her big head, and say, “No, I don't feel like doing it.” The data he collected with his team at Shedd Aquarium — what did that actually do? What did we get in her behavior? Less cooperation? Or did it provide her safety to be able to work with us in a more fluent way? I don't know. Twenty years ago I can't even imagine we would have had a conversation like that. Melissa Breau: That's so cool. It's such a neat concept. I'll have to go look up the specific stuff that Ken's put out on it, because I don't think I've had the chance to hear him talk about it. So that's cool. Kathy Sdao: You know, it's funny that you say that, Melissa. The timing is really great, because the videos from this year's ClickerExpo — there's two ClickerExpos a year in the U.S., one in January on the West Coast and one in March on the East Coast. The presentations, and there's a lot of them — there are three days, five simultaneous tracks, it's a lot of presentations — but those are recorded, and they're usually not available until the summer, but I know that they're going to be released later this week. So clickertraining.com, you could actually look for Ken Ramirez's presentation on — I think it's called Dr. No — on teaching animals to be able to opt out of procedures. You would actually not only be able to read about it, Ken has written on clickertraining.com about that procedure, you'd actually be able to hear Ken teach on it. So just to know there's a wealth of educational stuff. Gosh, there's lots of good stuff out there, but those ClickerExpo recordings are just one thing you can take advantage of and soon. Melissa Breau: That's awesome. And actually this will be out next Friday, so by the time this comes out, those will be available, so anybody who wants to go check them out can. Kathy Sdao: Thanks Melissa. Melissa Breau: We talked about the change that you've seen. What about where the field is heading, or even just where you'd like for it to go in the next few decades? What do you think is ahead for us? Kathy Sdao: It's a different question between where it is going and where I want it to go. I don't actually know where it's going. What I dream about. I dream about this. We need some guidelines. We need some legal guidelines. We need some way to have a field that has professional standards, and I don't know what that looks like, and I know that's not an easy thing to do, but it's just not OK. Yes, we continue to educate, and we continue to raise the standards, but I want to bring everybody along with us, meaning all my colleagues. That big line we tend to draw — I'm certainly guilty of this — of this “Us, the positive trainers, and them, the other trainers,” and there's this big chasm between us. I want to feel like there's not a big chasm between us. We're all doing the best we can with the knowledge we have, and you're putting more information out there through these amazing podcasts and through all the classes that I'm going to call the Academy, it's not the Academy, I don't know … Melissa Breau: FDSA. Kathy Sdao: The acronym doesn't trip off my tongue. But to be able to go, there's amazing education and I know there is, because I've got colleagues teaching for you, and I've got students who take those courses and rave and are learning so much. That's great. I love the increased educational opportunities, and the bar has really gotten higher. They're better. We're better at teaching this stuff. But I feel there's got to be a way that there's a professional ethic that comes along with. We've all got to be striving and moving toward better practices. It's no longer OK to say, “We've always used these coercive tools with dogs, and we've been able to teach them just fine.” I want that not to be so OK anymore. I'm not sounding very eloquent on this because I don't know exactly how to say … I strive for the day when I'm not losing sleep over what the dog trainer down the street is doing in the name of training. I would like to not lose sleep over what a professional dog trainer with a slick website can do. Melissa Breau: And I totally get you. I want to transition for a minute there. I'd love to talk a little bit about your book. I mentioned it in the intro, the title is Plenty in Life is Free: Reflections on Dogs, Training, and Finding Grace. Can you start off by explaining the name a little bit, and then share a little on what the book is about?   Kathy Sdao: Thanks Melissa. I sort of love my book, so thanks for giving me an opportunity to talk about it. I have to credit my publishers at Dogwise. Larry Woodward — what a lovely, kind man. My original title for that book, and I don't actually remember it because it was so horrible. I didn't see it. I thought it was really clever. I like puns, and so I'd come up with … honestly, I don't remember. That's how much I mentally blocked the bad title I had. Larry so graciously talked me into something else, and Plenty in Life is Free was his idea, and I really love it. The thing that really inspired me to write the book is I was becoming disenchanted with “Nothing in life is free” protocols that not only was I running into that my colleagues would use, but I used all the time in my consultation practice. I would hand out instructions on “For your aggressive dog,” or your anxious dog or whatever behavior problem brought my clients to me. Basic rule of thumb we would start at was your dog would get nothing that the dog would consider a reinforcer without doing a behavior for you first. Often these are implemented as the dog must sit before any food, toy, attention, freedom, there can be other behaviors, but it's sort of like you don't pay unless the dog complies with one of your signals first. Those were at the time, and still in some places, not only ubiquitous, like everywhere, but applied to any problem. So not only were they really common, they're applied to any problem, and the more I used them and really looked at them, I found them wanting in a lot of ways. Not only were they inadequate, but it seemed to me that they were producing really constrained relationships, like not free flowing, spontaneous, joyful relationships between people and their dogs, that everything was all those reinforcers were minutely controlled and titrated. I had clients say to me, “Oh my gosh, I pet my dog for nothing, just because she's cute.” I'm like, When did that become a problem? When is loving your dog the issue? And so the more I took a look at them, I realized I and maybe some of my colleagues were handing those out because we didn't have a way to be able to say, “Yes, we want to reinforce good behavior, but we don't want to be so stringent about it that we don't allow for the free flow of attention and love between family members that we aspire to, to have a joyful life.” Not only did I want to point out the concerns I had for those “Nothing in life is free” or “Say please” protocols — they come by different names — but to give an alternative. So to be able to say, if I looked at my masters degree in animal learning, what would the science say would be the replacement foundation advice we would be giving people. If I'm going to pull the “Nothing in life is free” handout out of my colleagues' hands — and that's what some people who have read the book said: “Wait, that's my Week 1 handout for class. What am I going to do?” “I know, let me give you another handout.” So, for me, it would be the acronym SMART. I don't use a lot of acronyms. I worked for the military, you can get really carried away with acronyms, but SMART — See, Mark, And Reinforce Training — is a really nice package to be able to tell my clients what habits I want to create in them. Because I'm actually changing their behavior. Anytime we teach, we're changing the human's behavior. What is it that science says we want the humans to do more of? Notice the behavior. Become a better observer. See behavior in your learner. Mark the behavior you want to see more of. Use a clicker, use a word, use a thumbs up. We're not going to debate too much about has to be one particular sort of marker signal, but marking is good. It gives information to your learner that's really important. And reinforce. So to be able to say, if I can develop that see, mark, and reinforce habit in my humans, the animal's behavior, the dog's behavior, is going to change, reflecting how much your habit has developed. Just to be able to shift people from that “I'm controlling every reinforcer in your life” strategy to “It's my responsibility to notice behavior I want to see more of, and to put reinforcement contingencies in place for that to make those behaviors more likely” — that's a huge shift. If we can get that going, I hope my little book might start the ball rolling in that direction. Melissa Breau: That's awesome. I know the book came out in 2012, and since then you've done some on-demand videos and you have all sorts of other resources on your site. I'd love to know what aspect of training or methods have you most excited today. What's out there that you want to talk about? Kathy Sdao: It's going to probably be a surprising answer to that. In my talks most recently, my presentations most recently, at ClickerExpo, because I've been on faculty for a long time there, interesting conversations happen about this time of year between the folks who put on ClickerExpo and me and all the other faculty and say, “Hey, what do you want to talk about next year, Kathy?” When that conversation happened last year, maybe even the year before, one of the things that's been really on my mind a lot is burnout, is burnout in my colleagues, and so sort of jokingly in that presentation, call it my Flee Control presentation, meaning I see lots of really skilled colleagues leaving the profession. I see some skilled colleagues leaving more than just the profession, leaving life. It's a really serious problem for trainers, for veterinarians, and where does this sense of burnout come from when we've spent all this time developing our mechanical training chops? We're actually good at the nuts and bolts, the physical skills of training, and we're studying the science, and we're taking courses and we're getting all this education. How is it that so many colleagues quit? It's a hard profession that we've got, those of us that are doing it professionally, and it can be exhausting. And so to be able to take a look at how we can support each other in a really skilled way, meaning taking the skills we have as trainers and applying them to our own longevity and mental health as practitioners. I think we're missing some sort of support mechanisms that are there in other professions. For instance, I have a client who's a psychiatrist and she works with a really difficult population, patients who are suicidal, very frequently suicidal and significantly suicidal, so she has a very challenging human patient load. When we were talking a little while back, she was at a dog-training lesson with her Rottweiler, we were working together, she said, “You know, every Thursday at 1:00 I have to meet with three of my peers. I have to. It's one of my professional demands. I would lose my license if I didn't. We don't look at each other's cases. We don't offer problem solutions. We give each other support. We're there to vent, we're there to listen, we're there to offload some of the grief and heartache that comes from doing our jobs well, and so that's just part of our professional standards.” My jaw sort of dropped open and I'm like, wait, what? I didn't even know that was a thing. Why is that not a thing for us? Why do we not have structures at least to support us being in this for the long haul? Because really, here's the thing. When I started out being a trainer and people said, “You've got to be a really good observer. That's what trainers do. They observe behavior.”  I'm like, cool, I'm going to get that 10,000 hours that Malcolm Gladwell talks about on watching animals behave. That's what the dog daycare did for me, lots and lots of hours watching dogs behave. No one says to you, “Hey, let's warn you that you're not going to be able to unsee.” You can't go back. You can't stop seeing animals in distress and in difficult situations, and it develops a lot of grief in each of us. So I think I'm losing colleagues not just because they've got better job offers. It's because their hearts are breaking. I don't know what the structure looks like to say I want to help prevent burnout in a structured way, but even the title of my book is going to hint the other thing I want to say to you, Melissa, which is intentionally that book title has the word grace in it because I talk about my spirituality in that book, which is kind of weird in a dog-training book, but to me they're all one and the same. Training, to me, is a spiritual practice, completely, and so I don't think we have comfortable formats to be able to have the conversation about the overlap of animal training and spirituality, not in a really saccharine, Pollyanna kind of way, but in a really open our hearts to what's deepest and true for us. I don't know. I want to figure out ways to facilitate that conversation. Because this is the conversation I want to have, so I'm brainstorming projects I'm hoping to take on in the next year or so that will let us have some formats to have that conversation. We're always talking about reinforcement for our learners, and I never want us to forget we have to set up reinforcement for ourselves and the work that we do. I think spirituality talks about how we can develop mindfulness practices that allow us to do good work, but also to stay happy and centered while we're doing it. I'm sure there are resources out there I haven't tripped upon, but I'm intrigued at developing even more. Melissa Breau: It's such an interesting topic, and it's definitely something I don't see enough people talking about or even thinking about, just our own mental health as you are a trainer or as you work towards training. It's an important topic for sure. Kathy Sdao: Exactly. Melissa Breau: We're getting close to the end here, and I want to ask you a slightly different version of the three questions I usually ask at the end of the podcast when I have a new guest. The first one I tweaked a little bit here, but can you share a story of a training breakthrough, either on your side or on the learner's end? Kathy Sdao: Anyone who's heard me teach at all is going to have heard something about my favorite learner of all time. That's E.T., the male Pacific walrus that I got the privilege to work with at Point Defiance Zoo and Aquarium in Tacoma. The very short version of an amazing story is when I first got hired at the zoo in 1990, I had worked with seals and sea lions and other pinnipeds, but had never even seen a walrus. So I spent the morning before my interview at the zoo, walking around the zoo and looking at the animals that I would train, and realized that E.T. — he weighed about 3500 pounds at that point — was one of the scariest animals I had ever seen. When I went into the interview I got asked the question, “If you get hired here, you're going to have to work with a new species, a Pacific walrus. What do you think about that?” Of course, anybody who's been in an interview knows that the answer is, “Ooh, I'd be really intrigued to have the opportunity.” Of course, you're saying how cool that would be, yet on the inside I'm positive that he's going to kill me. I mean this sincerely. I had moved into an unfurnished house, I had no furniture, so I have really clear memories of all I have in that house is a sleeping bag, and I'm waking up in cold sweat nightmares, sleeping in a sleeping bag on the floor in my empty house in Tacoma right after I got hired, those nightmares are that E.T. is going to kill me. He is completely aggressive, humans cannot get in his exhibit, he's destroying the exhibit because it's inadequate for a walrus. It was designed for sea lions. He came to the zoo as an orphaned pup in Alaska, nobody really expected him to survive, he grew to be an adolescent. The reason that there was a job opening at that department at the zoo is all the trainers had quit. There were no marine mammal trainers at the time I got hired. I don't know why they quit, I didn't ask them, but I suspect it was because E.T. weighed nearly two tons and was an adolescent and he was dangerous, destructive, oh, and he was X-rated — he masturbated in the underwater viewing windows for a couple of hours a day, and you don't need the visuals for that. Trust me when I tell you, if you were an elementary school teacher in Tacoma, Washington, you did not go to the underwater viewing section. It was awful. We didn't know what to do with him. The end of that story that starts with truly I don't want to be anywhere near him, he's terrifying me, he becomes one of the best friends I've ever had, I trust him with my life. By the time I quit the zoo five years later, E.T. knew over 200 behaviors on cue, we got in the exhibit with him, we took naps with him, I trusted him with my life. He lived another 20 years. He passed away only a couple of years ago. He was amazing. His behavior changed so much that I am being honest when I tell you I didn't see the old walrus in the current walrus. There was no more aggression. I don't mean infrequent outbursts of aggression. I mean we didn't see it anymore, based on what? We were brilliant trainers? Based on we were stuck with him and we needed to come up — three new trainers, myself and two gentlemen from Sea World — we needed to come up with a plan to make this livable, and what came out wasn't a tolerable animal. It was genius, and I mean that sincerely. If anyone had had the chance to see E.T. working with his trainers, it wasn't just that he learned really complicated behavior chains and he was really fluent in them. It was we were his friends, and I mean that in the true sense of the word. So my biggest breakthrough is that I can say that E.T. considered me his friend. Oh my gosh, that's it, that's what I'm putting on my resume. I was E.T. the walrus's friend, and he taught me more about training and the possibilities, the potential in each learner, that given enough time and resources, we sometimes can unleash and release those behaviors. That doesn't mean we don't ever give up on animals and say, “Oh my gosh, they're too dangerous, we can't change this behavior in a way that's adequate,” but the fact that we didn't really have that easy choice with E.T., it made us pull out all our best training ideas and to be persistent. Wow, you just couldn't believe what was in there, and without videos and about ten more hours, I can't do him justice, but that we were friends? Yeah, that's my coolest accomplishment. Melissa Breau: That's awesome. My second-to-last question is, what is the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard? Kathy Sdao: Let me do two. I'm going to cheat. Years ago, this is straightforward training advice, but it's one that I keep in the back of my head, which is, “Train like no one's watching you.” Because even when I don't have an audience … sometimes I have a real audience and I'm onstage trying to train an animal, which is nerve-wracking, but I don't need a human audience in front of me. I have judges in my head, so I always have an audience I always carry around, my critics, and to be able to free myself from those and to instead what happens if I say, “There's no audience in my head judging me”? It frees me up to see what's happening right in front of me. There's a quote I have next to my desk and it's from outside of training context. It's from a Jesuit priest whom I like very much, Father Greg Boyle, and the phrase that's on the Post-It next to my desk says, “Now. Here. This.” To be able to be in the present moment with your learner and say, “What's happening right now? What behavior is right in front of me?” sounds really simple, but it's not. It takes real mindfulness and intention to be in the present moment. When you're paying attention to your audience, real or imagined in your head, you can't be really present. So that would be one: Train like no one's watching you. And here's one that comes from my favorite science book, and every time I have a chance to have anybody listen to me anywhere, I'm going to quote the name of the book so that I can get this book in everybody's hands: Coercion and Its Fallout, by Dr. Murray Sidman. It's an astonishing book. It's not a training book. It's a science book, but it's very readable, most easily purchased at the behavior website, behavior.org, which is the Cambridge behavioral site. It's hard to find on Amazon. You shouldn't pay much more than twenty dollars for Coercion and Its Fallout, by Dr. Murray Sidman. Here's the training advice that Dr. Sidman would give. It's not training advice, it's life advice, but it's my new tagline. Let's see how this works, Melissa, because, you know, you've been doing these podcasts for a while, you're into training deep. It's hard to go “positive training,” that phrase is kind of vague and weird, and clicker training is … so what am I? I'm going to take Dr. Sidman's, one of his lines from Coercion and Its Fallout: “Positive reinforcement works and coercion is dangerous.” That's a seven-word descriptor for what it is I do, and it comes for every learner. Positive reinforcement works, and coercion, Dr. Sidman's definition is all the other three quadrants: positive punishment, negative punishment, and negative reinforcement. So we've got the four operant conditioning quadrants. Dr. Sidman's going to go, “Positive reinforcement works.” It does the job. It's all you need. The other three quadrants, they're there, I know, we use them, but they're dangerous. I love that summary. I'm using that with my clients now. I'm seeing if I can let that really simple summary of the science and our best practices to see if it works. Melissa Breau: That's fantastic. I love that. It's a very simple, easy line to remember. Kathy Sdao: It's Dr. Sidman's genius, so take it and run with it. Melissa Breau: Absolutely. Last question for you: Who is somebody else in the training world that you look up to? Kathy Sdao: There's so many. But because he's now my neighbor … Kathy, what's the most exciting thing that's happened to you recently? Ken Ramirez has moved in my back yard. I'm so excited! That genius trainer, the kindest man you'll ever meet, colleague of mine for the last 25 years, truly amazing human being, is now not only living a half-hour from me in Graham, Washington, just outside of Tacoma, he's not only living near me but offering courses. He's teaching a course this week at The Ranch. It's Karen Pryor's training facility here in Graham, Washington. It's an amazing facility, but that Ken, mentor and friend and genius trainer … a client of mine yesterday said, “Wait a minute. Who's that guy that taught the butterflies to fly on cue for the BBC's documentary?” Like, oh my gosh, that's Ken, yes, he taught butterflies, herds of butterflies, what do you call a group of butterflies, swarms of butterflies to fly on cue to the London Symphony for a big fundraising gig. Oh my god. Now is that someone you want to know more about? So I'm going to do a shout out to Ken and say you can find out more about the educational offerings at The Ranch at Karen Pryor's website, clickertraining.com. They've got a drop-down on The Ranch, and I don't live far away from there, so if you want to come beachcombing with me after you've visited Ken and learned stuff, I'll take you beachcombing. I love my beachcombing, so I'm happy to share that. Melissa Breau: That sounds like so much fun. I keep meaning to get out that way at some point and I haven't been yet, so it's definitely on the bucket list. Kathy Sdao: He's going to draw some really cool people to my neighborhood, so I'm going to share. I'm going to share. Melissa Breau: Absolutely. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Kathy. This has been truly fantastic. Kathy Sdao: Thanks so much, Melissa. You made it fun, and it's just a real treat to be affiliated with … now teach me the name: FDSA. Melissa Breau: Yes. Absolutely. Kathy Sdao: Excellent. So cool to be affiliated with you guys. You do great work, and I'm just honored. Melissa Breau: Thank you. And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in! We'll be back next week, this time with — she was mentioned earlier in this podcast — Michele Pouliot to talk about being a change-maker in the dog world. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice and our next episode will be automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Credits: Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called “Buddy.” Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.

Summary: Eileen Anderson is a writer and dog trainer. She is perhaps best known for her blog, Eileenanddogs, which has been featured on Freshly Pressed by Wordpress.com and won the award “The Academy Applauds” in 2014 from The Academy of Dog Trainers. Her articles and training videos have been incorporated into curricula worldwide and translated into several languages. Eileen also runs a website for canine cognitive dysfunction, which she started in 2013. That site is www.dogdementia.com, which has become a major resource for pet owners whose dogs have dementia. Then, in 2015, Eileen published Remember Me? Loving and Caring for a Dog With Canine Cognitive Dysfunction. She holds bachelor's and master's degrees in music performance and a master's degree in engineering science. Links www.dogdementia.com www.Eileenanddogs.com Next Episode:  To be released 4/27/2018, featuring Kathy Sdao, author of Plenty in Life is Free: Reflections on Dogs, Training, and Finding Grace, to talk about crossing over, how training dogs and marine mammals compare, and the future of dog training. TRANSCRIPTION: Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dog Sports Podcast brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high-quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today we'll be talking to Eileen Anderson. Eileen is a writer and dog trainer. She is perhaps best known for her blog, Eileenanddogs, which has been featured on Freshly Pressed by Wordpress.com and won the award “The Academy Applauds” in 2014 from The Academy of Dog Trainers. Her articles and training videos have been incorporated into curricula worldwide and translated into several languages. Eileen also runs a website for canine cognitive dysfunction, which she started in 2013. That site is www.dogdementia.com, which has become a major resource for pet owners whose dogs have dementia. Then, in 2015, Eileen published Remember Me? Loving and Caring for a Dog With Canine Cognitive Dysfunction. She holds bachelor's and master's degrees in music performance and a master's degree in engineering science. Hi Eileen, welcome to the podcast! Eileen Anderson: Hi Melissa, thank you so much for having me. I am stoked about this. Melissa Breau: I am too. To start us out, do you want to just share a little bit about each of your dogs, who they are, and anything you're working on with them? Eileen Anderson: Sure. That is the easiest thing in the world to talk about. I currently have two dogs. I have Zani, who is a hound mix. She looks kind of like a black-and-tan Beagle, and for those who have seen any of my pictures and videos, she's the one who tilts her head adorably. She was a rehome. I found her at age 1, and took her from someone who could not take care of her any longer. She has a fantastic temperament, and anybody would love to have Zani. What I'm working with her right now on is that she unfortunately had an accident in February and ran full-tilt into a fence, actually was driven into the fence, I suspect, by my other dog. I was there, I saw it happen, and she got a spinal cord concussion. She was knocked completely out and turned into a little noodle, and I thought I had lost her. But I took her to the vet, she got a CT scan, and they said they didn't see any permanent damage, that she had just gotten this jolt to her spinal cord. She was quadriplegic. I took her home, her not being able to walk or anything. But the vet was right — she did gradually recover, and she's still recovering. We're more than a month out now, but we're mostly practicing getting around safely, walking, going up and down the steps, and she's a little trooper. She hasn't had any mental problems at all. But it's been quite a challenge for me. I had to make her a safe space where she couldn't fall down because literally she couldn't walk at first. Melissa Breau: That's so scary. Eileen Anderson: It was really scary. It scared me to death. I thought she had died. I thought I had seen her pass away. But as those kind of accidents go, ours was pretty lucky. And my other dog is Clara. She's an All-American, she's bigger, she's about 44 pounds, and she is the one that I found as a feral puppy. I'll talk about her now and then through the podcast, but she has come so far. Right now we're working on just widening her world more. We have another friend's house that we get to go to now. She's met another dog, she's liking another person, and actually because of all the work I've done with her, she is a lot more stable in many new situations than lots of “normal dogs.” It's just such a gas to have a dog who's resilient. But that's what I'm doing with Clara right now. Melissa Breau: That's awesome. I mentioned the degrees in music and engineering science. How did you end up in dog training? Obviously you didn't start out there. Eileen Anderson: My career has kind of been all over the place. I was working first as an editor at a university, and then at my current job, which is a social services job helping women find health care for breast problems. I was all but dissertation in engineering science. I had passed my qualifying exams and was going on to be an engineer in acoustics, and I got a dog who was a challenge for me, and like everybody else, I got into dog training because I got the difficult dog. That dog was Summer. That was in 2006, and she was more than I was prepared to take care of. She chewed everything, she bullied my younger dog — my smaller dog, sorry — she jumped the fence, she was just basically a busy teenage dog. Right now I think back and it's like her problems were nothing, but at the time they were huge for me, so bad that I got depressed because it was changing my life so much to have this dog whom I loved, I loved her pretty much right away, but every time I turned around there was a new problem. And so I looked for help in the usual ways. I got on the Internet, I found a local obedience club and went through the usual things there, and somewhere along the line — of course I got a good teacher — but along the line I got hooked. And actually dog training made me quit graduate school because I was like, This is a lot more interesting than active noise control to me. Melissa Breau: You mentioned you started out finding a club. What got you started as a positive trainer? Eileen Anderson: I started at the very beginning as a positive That's what I want to do trainer, a wanna-be. I would read about it on the Internet and I thought, That's what I want to do. But when you're on your own and you don't have any coaching, and you're going by … and this was in the earlier days of the Internet and there weren't as many good instructions out there, so you try something and it's kind of in a vacuum, like “be a tree” when your dog pulls when they're walking on leash. You know, stand still and they'll stop doing that. I did that for months and it didn't work because I didn't have the other half of it, which was reinforce them for walking by your side. So I figured, Well, this positive reinforcement stuff sounds good, but it's not very practical, or maybe my dog's not very smart. I did go … those things we think, you know. I did go to a balanced obedience club. I'm still a member there, the people there adore their dogs, and we get along just fine. I've seen a lot of good changes there while I've gone there. But I knew that collar pops were not something that I wanted to do, but I could not find other ways to, for instance, get Summer to keep from wandering off into the wide blue yonder mentally whenever we were together and from physically wandering off whenever she had a chance. And so I did go that direction. I did the collar pops, I did a prong collar for a while, and then I found the agility part of the club, and that's a familiar story, I'm sure, to a lot of people as well. They were more positive — not completely, but more positive — and through them I found my current trainer, who is Lisa Mantle of Roland, Arkansas, who was trained by Bob and Marian Bailey — Bob Bailey lives here in Arkansas, by the way — and that's when I really started to get it. Lisa is a great teacher, and that's pretty much when I turned the corner. Melissa Breau: I think you mentioned some exciting news related to your experiences there. Do you want to share? Eileen Anderson: Yes. I am writing another book. I'm writing Summer's story. Summer, I sadly lost her last summer at only the age of 11. I thought she was going to live a much longer time. She was very healthy. But she got hemangiosarcoma, and after some misdiagnosis of back pain for about a month, we got the news, and by the time they did do exploratory surgery, but it was too far gone and I did have to euthanize her. I wasn't ready for that at all, nobody ever is, but I didn't have any lead time on it. But she was my crossover dog. She went through all of this with me patiently as I learned how to do things and how to treat her better, and she was a lovely soul, and I'm writing a book about that. It's the story of Summer and me, and also I'm threading into it how I came to change my training ways, and I'm trying to do it in a non-preachy way. I'm writing to pet owners in the book. Recently I saw an op-ed in … I think it was the New York Times, by somebody who just wrote a nice little piece about her old dog, and there were the hallmarks of someone who didn't know a lot about training. There were humorous moments about how they had to chase the dog down and force the pills down his throat and it took all this, and it wasn't mentioned as any kind of morality thing. It was just part of the story. I want our positive training stories to be part of the story too. Not as a preachy thing necessarily, although I can preach with the best of them, but as just part of the story, incidental, this is how we did things. I am feeling like that would be a very persuasive way to write the book. Also I just want to write the book because I loved my dog. But I'm hoping it will be another way just to get the message out in a very incidental way that there's nothing abnormal about this. This is how I trained my dog, and this is how we learned to get along. Melissa Breau: When are you thinking it's going to be available? Do you know yet, and is there anything more you want to share into how you're planning to talk about that crossing-over experience? Eileen Anderson: I'm aiming for 2019, which probably means 2020. I'm telling the story of our lives together, and that is my crossover story. Of course I can pull from blogs, which help me get a timeline there. It's hard to remember what happened when, but I will be incorporating some of the blogs. I've written many blogs about her over the years. But again, I want to tell the story. I don't want to have villains. I do want to have heroes, and I want to talk about how my mind changed as things went along, how my perspective changed, because it changed my whole life. Having an epiphany about positive reinforcement really does filter through your whole life, once you get it, and I hope I can tell that story in a very casual and again non-preachy way and make it interesting for people. Melissa Breau: Now, you mentioned that this is going to be another book. It's not your first book. I do want to talk about that first book a little bit. Can you share a little bit about Remember Me? Loving and Caring for a Dog With Canine Cognitive Dysfunction? What IS canine cognitive dysfunction, first, and how do you talk about it in the book? Eileen Anderson: Canine cognitive dysfunction is a term for mental and behavioral decline that's associated with changes in the brains of aging dogs. It's not just normal aging. We all lose some of our marbles as we age, but this is abnormal aging, it's a neurological condition, and it has behavioral symptoms. It's way under-diagnosed and it's undertreated. In the book I tell the story of my little dog, Cricket. She was a rat terrier and she lived to be probably 17, could have been even older, because she was a middle-aged dog when I got her from a rescue. She got canine cognitive dysfunction, and she had it for at least a year before I identified what was wrong. I didn't know what to tell my vet. Her first symptom was anxiety, and so I just thought she was getting nervous. I didn't realize that that could be a symptom of CCD. So the book is the story of Cricket, and how things went for her and for me. The message of the book is that there is help out there and that we need to know about this disease so dogs can get diagnosed sooner. There's no cure, but there are drugs that can ameliorate the symptoms, there are drugs that can help the dogs and the people have an easier life, and there are so many ways you can enrich the dog's life. They can still have a good life. Melissa Breau: If you could tell people just one thing about Canine Cognitive Dysfunction, what would it be? What do you wish people really knew about that? Eileen Anderson: I might cheat and I'm going to say two. One is talk to your vet. I am not a veterinarian. I can't diagnose your dog. There's lists all over the Internet now of symptoms, I certainly have one, but you can read all the symptoms but you cannot diagnose your dog. You need to talk to your vet many times about this and get educated, and if you're worried at all about your dog, talk about a diagnosis. The second thing is just from my heart. If your dog is diagnosed with Canine Cognitive Dysfunction, your dog's life is not over. Like I was saying, there are many ways to enrich your dog's life, and if we can get over our own preconceptions, see the dog standing in the corner and go, “Oh, poor thing,” well, sometimes, yes, some of their symptoms are pathetic and uncomfortable for them and need some intervention, but lots of the things they do, I think they're just in la-la land. They don't know what you know about what they used to be able to do. So that's my little lecture on that is don't give up on your dog, don't think they're miserable unless you have good evidence that they are, because some of this is just unfamiliar to us. They do odd things, and odd doesn't necessarily mean that the dog is unhappy. You need to learn about that, and again, talk to your vet about all of it. That was more than one thing. I'm sorry! Melissa Breau: That's OK! Sometimes the best things are the more than one thing, right? Eileen Anderson: Right. Melissa Breau: To move from your books to your site for a little bit – and for listeners I will make sure to include links to both of Eileen's sites in the show notes — for listeners who haven't been to your site or aren't familiar with it, can you share a little bit about the topics you usually write about? Eileen Anderson: I write about training dogs, I write about learning theory, and the thing that I'm able to do that lots of professional trainers are not is that I write about my mistakes a lot. I show things that I've tried that don't work and I show things that I've tried that do work. But on my site you get to see videos of dogs who have never learned a behavior before, and me trying to train them with the best intentions and with a lot of information, but with gaps in my understanding. You can see a typical person training their dog and making mistakes, and you can learn from my mistakes. I talk about dog body language a lot too. Having all the different dogs I've had, I have great footage of the interesting things they do with each other and with us. You know, body language is a whole other part we need to learn about when we're trying to train our dogs well. But I take a scientific approach to the training, but I show a human trying to do it. Melissa Breau: Fair enough. You mentioned the scientific piece there, and I think one of the things that I like best about your work is that you really do approach things pretty scientifically. A while ago you wrote a post asking the question, “When is citing a research study not enough?” and I'd love to talk about that a bit. When IS citing a research study not enough — at least if we want to be right about the facts and present ideas that are actually backed up by research? Eileen Anderson: OK. One research study is almost never enough. Usually when we want a research study, it's because we want to win an argument these days, or we want to know something for a fact, you know, “Let's get to the bottom of this. Let's figure it out.” The problem is that we need to look at the bulk of the literature. One brand new study, if it's the first on a certain topic, that's just the beginning of the research, and you can't flap that around and say, “Hey, I've proved it now.” You have to look at the bulk of the research, and one example I like to give is that some topics don't have studies because they are so basic that they are in textbooks. One good example of that is that people will come along and say, “I need a research study that proves that you can't reinforce fear.” OK, well, as far as I know, there isn't one, per se, and there's not one with dogs, and the reason is that that information is implicit and explicit in textbooks and review papers. To answer that question, all you need to know about — all you need to know about! — you need to know about the difference between operant behavior and respondent behavior, you need to know about how emotions work, and you need to know about the sympathetic nervous system response. And if you put all that together, which is in any psychology book, pretty much — you might have to crack a biology book for some of it — you can see why they didn't have to do a study to show that emotions are operant behaviors and you don't reinforce them. You can reinforce behaviors that come around them. But that's an example of it. You know, people want one study for something, and it's either something that's so basic that you could just open a book and find out, or it's something that's so new that we might have one study that shows it, but we need for five or ten more to come in. So I always tell people, “Look for the review study, look for the one that summarizes the research, because that's going to do the work of assessing whether the study is any good.” Because I don't know about you, but I don't have a psychology degree. I do have a graduate degree. I have two of them. So I'm familiar with research, but I don't have the basis, the basic knowledge, to really assess a study. So I have to go to the people who can help, and that's the people who write the review articles and the people who write the textbooks.   Melissa Breau: I think that's great advice and a good thing for people to remember, especially in this day and age, like you said, we tend to want to win an argument instead of thinking, Wait a minute, let's make sure we have our facts straight. The example you mentioned in the post was a post you wrote about errorless learning. I was hoping you'd be willing to maybe share that story with our listeners. Eileen Anderson: Sure, and this is an example of making a mistake. It was Susan Friedman who told me a couple of years back when I was cringing about making public mistakes and she said, “That's like science. Science gets it wrong, and then somebody comes along and gets a little better and you get a little closer. You're shaping the knowledge. So there's no shame in it, even though it really feels like there is.” I took exception to the term “errorless learning,” because I read the work of Herb Terrace, who did the famous work, I think it was in the '60s, with pigeons, where they did thousands and thousands of repetitions of pigeons pecking on a lit disc, and it had, I think, a green light on it. The errorless part was that they made it super-easy to peck on that disc, and then they were teaching them also not to peck on a red disc. At first the other disc was way far away. Then, when they did light it up, they lit it very dimly. In other words, they kept that green disc very attractive and just kind of snuck in the other one. And in thousands of repetitions, when this was done gradually, some of the pigeons had less than one percent error rate, which all of us should aspire to. Well, I just took exception to that, because they were in completely controlled, a lab environment, the pigeons were starving, you know, they always take them down to a low body weight so they're wanting to work, they controlled many, many more variables than we ever can, and it just didn't seem like something we could really emulate. And even the term to me — I nitpick words a lot — but it was not errorless. They had a one percent error rate, so you can't call that errorless. So I wrote a little … kind of a ranting article about that, and I snorted around about it. I had a friend — she could have done this through the public comments, but she didn't — I had a friend whose parents were Ph.D. students under Skinner, so she's one of the few people in the world who grew up as a human in a positive reinforcement environment, and she said, “Eileen, that's not quite right. Herb Terrace, his experiments, yes, they were famous, but he was not the first one to talk about errorless learning, and you kind of got it wrong.” She educated me, and it turns out that Skinner, back in the 1930s, was talking about errorless learning and errorless teaching, because of course to him, if the student made an error, it's really a mistake of the teacher. And it was — some of us have read about it since then — it was kind of the same principal, but of providing a path for the learner where the easiest path to go is to the behavior you want with the fewest number of errors possible. He had had an argument with Thorndike, who said, “You have to make errors to learn,” and Skinner said, “No, you don't.” And Skinner kind of won that one. We think of Skinner as just this dry, cold guy, but he was passionate about teaching and learning, and he was trying to be as humane as possible and make an easy path for the learner, and there's nothing bad about that, in my opinion. There's nothing bad. And so I wrote a Part 2, and I left Part 1 up. I was tempted to get rid of it, but I left Part 1 up and I just put a note at the top saying, “If you read this, there are mistakes in here, so please read Part 2, or just read Part 2 instead.” Melissa Breau: Fair enough. I think it's awesome that you were willing to leave that up. I think that that really says something about your willingness to be transparent about all of this. Like you said, you feel like you can show those errors and those mistakes, where a trainer may not feel comfortable with that. So I think that's fantastic. Eileen Anderson: Thank you. That's something I try to do for the community, even though even for me it's pretty hard sometimes. Melissa Breau: How do you try to keep up to date with the latest information, and how do you try to make sure that you're conducting good research on this stuff when you're writing? Eileen Anderson: One thing I learned in my science degree is you don't just read the paper. Your job is then to go through all the footnotes, to read all the footnotes, and then get on Google Scholar and look at who has cited the paper later. Because if you looked up a paper in 1975 for “Why do humans get ulcers?” that paper would say “From stress and acidic foods.” If you don't look later in the literature, you won't find out that, woops, actually it's from an infection, which they discovered in 1981 or '82. So you have to look before the research piece that you're reading and after it. What I do personally, I set up some Google Alerts, both from standard Google and Google Scholar, and there are a couple topics — one of them is dementia in dogs, and the other one is sound sensitivity and sound capabilities of dogs — and I get alerts whenever anything new is published. Most of it is crap, but I get the good stuff too. I get stuff from Google Scholar when there's a new paper, for instance, on dog dementia, which one did come out this year. That's pretty much how I try to keep up. I try to keep focus because there's way too much for anybody to learn these days. But I use the tools that are out there and I try to be thorough in terms of also looking at who is arguing against this. That's the hard part, especially when you get attached to something. You don't want to read about why it's wrong, but I try to do that too. Melissa Breau: That's awesome. To shift gears a little bit, you've also written quite a bit on your site about Clara, and you mentioned earlier that she was a feral dog and you've done a ton of socialization work with her. Do you mind just sharing a little bit about your approach there and how you've gone about that? Eileen Anderson: I would love to, and I have to credit my teacher, Lisa Mantle, with whom … I could not have done this without her. She's had a lot of experience with feral and other very challenged dogs. She actually says that Clara is one of the most challenging ones she has had. When Clara came to me, she was between eight and ten weeks old, and her socialization window was in the act of shutting, probably that very night. She was scared of me, and avoidant, and I didn't think I was going to be able to catch her. She was slinking away and acting like a wild animal. But when I opened my front door, little Cricket, the rat terrier, was barking inside, and Clara pricked up her ears and slunk by me like I wasn't there, and came into my house and sat down next to Cricket in her crate. And so it was the other dog that got Clara into the house. Within the evening she decided I was OK, and part of that was because of spray cheese, which she still thinks is manna from heaven. But I assumed, silly me, that since I had gotten in, everybody would get in, you know, Now she likes people, look, she thinks I'm great, she's sitting in my lap, she's flirting with me, she's jumping up and down. And so the next day I took her somewhere, and I had her in the crate in the car, and I said, “Look, I've got this puppy,” and opened the door and Clara went, “Grrrr,” this little tiny puppy growling in the crate. I thought, Oh dear, I've got more of a problem here than I thought. Back to getting to socialization, it was technically not socialization at some point because she was past that window — and there's a terminology dispute about this, and I try to placate the people who say, “It's not socialization after they're a certain age.” We were doing desensitization, counterconditioning, and habituation, but we started with people a hundred feet away. That's how fearful of people, and we had to start very far away. We did very, very careful exposures, and this was over the course of months and years. We did a lot of it at a shopping mall, which sounds crazy, but the layout of the place was such that we really could go a hundred feet away and there wouldn't be anybody to bother us. But it was extremely gradual, and every appearance of a person, whether they were fifty feet away or, later on, walking by on the sidewalk, was paired with something awesome, which, you know, spray cheese or something else she loved. McDonald's chicken sandwiches were also very popular. But it was just very gradual, and my teacher was very good at, when we'd hit a bump in the road or get to a plateau, sometimes we could work through it, sometimes we'd just take a different approach. She has good intuitions about that. And one day she said, “Let's just take her down the sidewalk in the mall,” and by golly, she was fine. She could walk among throngs of people, as long as … there's things she doesn't like. If someone walks up to her and says, “Oh, a puppy!” and stares at her, she's going to chuff at them. But people walking by, people brushing against her, sudden changes in the environment, wheelchairs, anything that might bother a lot of dogs, she is great with, and she has come such a very long way. But it was all very gradual, and it was done through desensitization, counterconditioning, and habituation. Melissa Breau: Just to give people a little bit of an idea, when you say “very gradual,” how old is she now? How long have you been working on this stuff? Eileen Anderson: She is 6. The point where we could walk her around in the mall was about two years after we started. But she was happy. It wasn't this, OK, she's all right walking around. She was great. Melissa Breau: Right, right. I think it's interesting to ask for the timeline a little bit there, because it helps people understand how much work goes into it sometimes. But also there's a light at the end of the tunnel. Eileen Anderson: That's right, that's right. And thinking back, a lot of people have had harder situations than we have, but we did have a pretty hard one. She basically was like a wild animal. I didn't see her as a fearful dog, she wasn't congenitally startling or fearful. She was just different, you know. She was like a wild animal and had that natural distrust of humans. Melissa Breau: I don't know about other people necessarily, but I really find that I personally struggle with what feels like two conflicting pieces of advice out there when it comes to socialization or even the stuff you're talking about. The idea that, Option 1, bring your puppy lots of places, but don't overface them, make sure it's all positive, but bring them all the places you go. And the second is never bring your puppy places unless you're absolutely sure you can just get up and leave if it's too much for them. I was curious how you handled determining what to expose Clara to, what she's ready for, and what is likely to still even today be too much for her. Eileen Anderson: That's a really great question. With her, of course we had to take mostly the second method. That was being careful that we had a way to get out. She was not a puppy that I could lug around everywhere and expose her to. I think there can be value in that, as long as you can protect the puppy from people who do the wrong stuff, which any reactive dog group will tell about those people who are going to do stuff to your dog if they get a chance. But today I feel like I need to just be careful and watch her. For instance, even without really working on veterinary visits, she's good at veterinary visits now, just because of the general work we've done. There's some times you have to take your dog to the vet, and she does really well. And I feel like I could take her to a new place with people and walk around and she would do fine. I would just watch for situations where people would be too assertive towards her. So it's not so much the environment, it's not environmental changes, it's not crowds. It's that person who zeroes in and says, “Oh, what a beautiful dog! Can I pet her?” while you're running away. Melissa Breau: Right. We're getting to the end here, and I have these three questions I typically ask everybody the first time they're on the show, so I'd love to work through those. The first one is: What is the dog-related accomplishment that you're proudest of? Eileen Anderson: It is that I used classical conditioning to prevent Clara from picking up on Summer's barking. Summer was a reactive dog and she barked regularly at things that went by the house, particularly delivery trucks and things that were hard for me to control. You can't control those, and I wasn't always home. So she had some untreated reactivity, and I did not want Clara, the baby puppy, to pick up on that. She had enough problems. And so, from the very beginning, very consistently, when Summer would bark, wherever she was, I would give Clara a magnificent treat, usually again spray cheese. It didn't matter what the dogs were doing, what was happening. So I did a classical pairing of Summer barks, wonderful treats fall from the sky. Lots of the things I think up on my own don't work out really well because I can't see down the line well enough to see the end ramifications, but that one worked out great. I have a dog who, when she hears another dog bark, looks at me eagerly instead of running to go bark with them. Just considering that she had so many other challenges, I didn't want her to have that challenge. I have a video of her literally drooling when she heard Summer bark, and so I can prove, yes, I have the Pavlovian association there — another dog barking means yummy stuff is coming my way. I am really proud of doing that. It has paid off in so many ways. Melissa Breau: That's awesome, and that's a fantastic idea. The other question, and usually this is one of my favorite questions of the podcast, is: What's the best piece of training advice that you've ever heard? Eileen Anderson: Watch the dog. And I can say that in two ways. One of them is learn about dog body language. I posted a blog just yesterday, I think it was, two days ago, about accidentally using punishing things because you're following a protocol and trying to do everything right, and you don't notice that you're snapping your hand in the dog's face or something like that they really don't like. So watch the dog. Make sure that what you're doing is OK, even when you're concentrating on your mechanics and following the directions that you've read from your teacher. So that's one way. And also I do agility, and so many times when I made an error, it's like my teacher would say: “You weren't watching your dog.” And of course there's times we have to take our eyes off them, but “Watch the dog.” That's my mantra. Melissa Breau: Excellent. It's nice and concise and easy to remember, too, which is a plus. Last question here: Who is somebody else in the dog world that you look up to? Eileen Anderson: My friend Marge Rogers. Marge and I kind of grew up together in the dog training online world and we started our journeys together. Marge became a professional trainer and I became a writer. But Marge, before there was ever a Fenzi Academy and people sharing these wonderful ideas of how to be humane to dogs in competition, before there was ever that, Marge trained her dogs way over fluency before she ever competed them. She's also fantastic at using multiple reinforcers just as a matter of course. Any dog that goes to her is going to end up being able to switch back and forth between a plate of food and a tug toy, and they can tug when the food's on the ground, and they can eat food even if they love to have a ball. They will get not only multiple reinforcers but the ability to respond to the trainer to transfer back and forth between those reinforcers. She's just fantastic at that. She helps me with all my problems. She can usually give a one-line response to whatever stupid thing I'm doing. And not only that, she's humble. She's always learning. She's one of the most humble people I know, and I just love her training. Melissa Breau: That's awesome. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast, Eileen. This has been fantastic. Eileen Anderson: You are welcome. It is my pleasure. I love to talk about this stuff, and I am very honored to be on the Fenzi podcast. Melissa Breau: Well, thank you, and thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in! We'll be back next week with Kathy Sdao to talk about everything from training dolphins to dog training — it should be a pretty deep dive on behavior! Don't miss it. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. Credits: Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called “Buddy.” Audio editing provided by Chris Lang.