Climbing Business Journal Podcasts

Obe Carrion is the guest of this episode of the Climbing Business Journal podcast, hosted by John Burgman. Obe has long been one of the biggest names in the game as a pro climber. Over the years, he has worked with multiple brands, and he's been in multiple climbing films, including the 1998's Free Hueco! and 1999's Rampage. He has been a coach, a mentor, and through all of the evolutions he has remained a force of nature in the climbing industry. John and Obe talk about Obe's career and psych in climbing: how psych is never a constant, but how there can be value in it as an unknown, and in the way that motivation comes and goes and then comes back again eventually. Obe also reflects on climbing in the 1990s, the filming of that famous Rampage documentary—in which Chris Sharma stole the show at an X Games in San Francisco on this day, 26 years ago—hanging with Sharma, coaching the next generation, and evolving with the times. General Topics Covered Introduction and Obe's Background Career Decisions and Early Development Competition Scene and Mentorship Sponsorship and Professional Development Bouldering Boom, The Video Era Rampage Film Production Transition to Coaching Coaching Philosophy and Modern Climbing Industry Evolution Show Notes Find Obe Carrion on Instagram: @obe_carrion Rampage on YouTube Thank you Approach and Kilter for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Joey is the co-founder and owner of his own hold company, called Ocelot Grips, out of Oregon. But Ocelot Grips is the end product, or at least the current end, of many, many years of Joey working in the industry as a hold shaper. He has designed and shaped holds for a lot of different brands over the years. He gets into his story in more detail in this episode, but he also offers some fascinating insights on his artistic philosophy for shapes and how that works in conjunction with his philosophy for functionality in shapes. Because hold shaping is like routesetting in that sense; it's partially an artistic craft as well as a utilitarian or commercial craft. Art, commerce, functionality—it's all wrapped up in the life of a hold shaper. And, as a longtime shaper and setter, Joey is a great guest for riffing on all of those finer points of the craft. General Topics Covered Introduction and Industry Status Joey's Background and Entry into Climbing Oregon's Significance to Hold Shaping Hold Design Philosophy and Learning Experiences Aesthetics vs. Function in Hold Design Founding Ocelot Grips Current Work and Future Plans Show Notes Ocelot Grips Ocelot Grips Instagram: @ocelotgrips Thank you EP Climbing and Rock Gym Pro for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today's episode brings Ruth Jang to the show. Ruth is a routesetter at Central Rock Gym in Atlanta, Georgia. She first picked up setting as a bucket list challenge and because she saw a gap in the gym: not enough entry-level, competition-style boulders for people to learn from. Her thought? “Why not infiltrate from the inside and learn from the best?” Before she knew it, she was pulled into the gravity of the setting world. Today, Ruth is a USAC Level 3 routesetter with her first national event on the horizon this June. She's also set for citizen comps like Method Underground. Before setting, Ruth came from a background in academia and biomedical research, where she studied stem cells and the opioid epidemic. General Topics Covered How a negative became a positive: Ruth's unusual introduction to climbing An Eastern versus Western approach to team dynamics: collective and individual identity What is true collaboration in routesetting? The similarities between team sports and routesetting Communication and how it can change team dynamics Poetry and routesetting Handling arrogance in the setting industry Show Notes Find Ruth Jang on Instagram Find Ruth's poems, Logic of the Woods, all proceeds go towards the Southeastern Climbing Coalition (SCC) and Training Indonesians for Transition to Institutional Programs (TITIP). Central Rock Gym What is Futsal? The difference between Eastern and Western (collective versus individualistic). Further readings:  How East and West think in profoundly different ways, David Robson, BBC Cultural differences are far more nuanced than East vs West, Matt Hudson, Psyche “I think, therefore I am.” Resources and further reading on Eating Disorders:  National Eating Disorder Association National Institute of Mental Health - Eating Disorders Closing Notes If you'd like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle, or have questions, we'd love for you to reach out.  The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today's episode is sponsored by Essential Climbing and Trango. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Scott Rennak, and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney. 

Brian is the General Manager and Co-Owner of Bluestem Boulders in Ames, Iowa. It's a fairly new gym, having opened last November. The climbing walls and flooring at the gym are by Onsite, and the CRM software is by GymDesk. But what's noteworthy for today's conversation is that Bluestem is only two miles from the campus of Iowa State University, so students from the university form a large customer base for the gym. There are many other climbing gyms around the country near colleges, where students already frequent the gym. And there are also gyms near a college that are trying to figure out how to break into the university market, asking: “How do we get more of those college students to come into our gym? How do you draw the college demographic into a gym? How can a gym work with a nearby college? What kind of programs seem to resonate most with college students?” There are no magic answers to these questions, but there is plenty to talk about when it comes to better serving a college population, and that's the subject John gets into today with Brian. General Topics Covered College Demographics and Gym Proximity Marketing to College Students Programming for College Students System Boards and College Appeal Gym Operations and Observations Show Notes Bluestem Boulders Find Bluestem Boulders on Instagram: @bluestemboulders More background on the opening of Bluestem Boulders: Bouldering Gym Opens Two Miles From Iowa State University Thank you Butora and RGP for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today's episode brings routesetter Iza Nowak to the podcast. Nowak is a team climber turned routesetting powerhouse. She started climbing as a kid and has almost two decades of time on rocks and plastic. Her setting career has spanned multiple states. Now, Nowak is a lead setter at Sport Rock in Washington, D.C. She is a USAC Level 3 routesetter with competition experience at all levels, from climbing leagues to Qualifying Events to high-level citizens' comps, like Method Underground and national-level bouldering and sport competitions. Nowak has also traveled internationally to set, having recently returned from the Norwegian Youth Championships. Nowak brings all that knowledge to the show, diving into fundamentals for both competition and commercial routesetting, skills for leading a setting crew, and much more. General Topics Covered Iza's First Impressions of Routesetting as a Team Kid True or False Game of Routesetting What it Takes to Be a Commercial Routesetter The Qualities of a Good Headsetter Movement Understanding vs. Raw Strength What it Takes to be a Competition Routesetter USA Climbing Standards and Pathways Career Growth and Development Show Notes Find Iza Nowak on Instagram Sportrock Climbing Centers USA Climbing Routesetter Pathway Chart The book where the 60/100 statistic between genders on job applications can be found is Lean In: Women, Work, and the Will to Lead. This statistic was widely attributed to an internal report at Hewlett-Packard, although this claim has been shown to lack solid evidence and is likely based on a subjective observation rather than a rigorous study. Other, more robust studies like this one in the European Journal of Social Psychology, have disputed this statistic. Closing Notes If you'd like to nominate someone as a guest next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle, or have questions–we'd love for you to reach out here. The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Today's episode is sponsored by Rock Gym Pro and Bold Climbing. It was edited and produced by Holly Yu Tung Chen, Scott Rennak, and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

On this episode of the CBJ podcast, host John Burgman and Jonathan Landis, the CEO of Greater Heights, talk about the winding path from an idea to the construction and, finally, the grand opening of a new climbing gym. Greater Heights opened in early December 2024 in Fitchburg, Wisconsin—which is right around Madison—and has ropes, boulders and auto belays. The climbing walls at the gym are from Rockwerx, the flooring is from Asana, and Rock Gym Pro is the management software. John and Jonathan chat all about the origin of Greater Heights and the origin of Jonathan's involvement with the gym. They discuss Jonathan's outlook on how climbing gyms are like a subscription service, in a way. They also focus on the Midwest as a good region for a climbing gym, and Jonathan, as a lifelong Midwesterner, offers some keen insights on getting one started. General Topics Covered Greater Heights' Origin and Background Jonathan's Climbing Journey and Business Development Finding the Right Space and Facility Considerations Convincing Investors and Securing Financing Risk Assessment and Business Threats Midwest Market Analysis and Gym Appeal Show Notes Greater Heights Find Greater Heights on Instagram: @gh.climbing More background on the opening of Greater Heights: New Full-Service Gym Is Coming to Wisconsin's Capital This Winter Thank you Approach and EP Climbing for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today's episode brings routesetter Ethan Paris to the recording studio. Paris comes from a film and creative background, giving him a unique perspective on how routesetters operate in a space that can be defined half by art and half by design. Hailing from the Northeast, he moved to Colorado in 2024 to set at the Climbing Collective gyms in Longmont, Loveland and Greeley. Paris is a USAC Level 2 routesetter and has set for over 20 local and USAC competitions nationwide. He's also participated in the Setter Showdown in Hawaii, taken setting clinics in London, and hopes to one day set for national-level events. Host Holly Chen talks to Paris about the prevalence of imposter syndrome in the routesetting industry. They explore the origins and characteristics of the phenomenon, from the term's conception in 1978 to how imposter syndrome impacts today's modern routesetting community. They talk about how it manifests across the gender spectrum, and how difficult it can be to overcome. Finally, they discuss how community is often the ticket out. General Topics Covered Ethan Paris' Background Defining Imposter Syndrome Imposter Syndrome Manifestation Community & Gender Factors Gender and Imposter Syndrome Combating Imposter Syndrome Supporting Others Creating Change [the_ad_group id="625"] Show Notes Find Ethan Paris on Instagram Climbing Collective Psychotherapy Theory, Research and Practice Volume 15, #3, Fall 1978 – The Imposter Phenomenon in High Achieving Women: Dynamics and Therapeutic Intervention by Pauline Rose Clance and Suzanne Imes New Yorker – Why Everyone Feels Like They're Faking It by Leslie Jamison Kaizen (Ky'zen), The Key to Japan's Competitive Success Other CBJ interviews and podcast guests who have talked about imposter syndrome:  Inclusion Takes Intention: Behind the Desk With Gabby Zonneveld at MetroRock Vans on the Wall – CBJ Podcast with Ally Cruz Keep Them Sketched Out – CBJ Podcast with Claire Kawainui Miller The Top CBJ Podcast Episode of 2024 for Routesetters Closing Notes If you'd like to nominate someone as a next guest, have a topic you want to see us tackle, or have questions–we'd love for you to reach out here. The Impact Driver podcast is a production of the Climbing Business Journal. Bold Climbing and Rock Gym Pro sponsor today's episode. It was edited and produced by Holly Chen, Scott Rennak, and the team at CBJ. Our theme music is by Devin Dabney.

On this episode of the Climbing Business Journal podcast, host John Burgman is joined by Megan Cheek. Megan is the Digital Marketing Manager and Content Strategist for Climbing Collective, which includes the Inner Peaks gyms in North Carolina, Philadelphia Rock Gyms in Pennsylvania, and Hudson Boulders in New York. They talk about what the Climbing Collective is and how several different gyms and gym brands operate within it. From there, they chat about Megan's role as a content strategist and what it means to create content for gyms these days. John and Megan pinpoint the new Inner Peaks location, which is in the NoDa neighborhood of Charlotte. They discuss the NoDa gym's layout and the focus at the gym on the first-time climber's journey. To that point, Megan provides some insights on how a gym's layout can help foster the development of a climber, from beginners to longtime members. General Topics Covered What is the Climbing Collective? Megan's Role in Marketing Storytelling in Climbing Adapting to Changing Marketing Trends Inner Peaks Noda Design Neurodiversity in Climbing Staff Training on Failure Is the Art of Projecting Lost Indoors? Positive Experiences and Member Retention Show Notes @InnerPeaksClimbing @PhilaRockGym @HudsonBoulders Thank you Butora and Rock Gym Pro for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

In this episode, Impact Driver host Holly Chen speaks with Taylor Fragomeni. Like many other professional routesetters, Taylor's career started at her university's climbing wall, which for her was in in Bozeman, Montana, in 2012. Taylor then moved into working in the climbing space full-time. She's worn various hats over the years, the most significant being Head Routesetter and Head Coach at Spire Climbing and Fitness. She has set for dozens of local comps—many of which she chiefed—as well as several USAC youth comps up to the divisional level for both sport and bouldering. Now Taylor has stepped back from full-time routesetting to work with the Bozeman Climbing team again. She's also focusing on her own business, Tangent Climbing, where she coaches youth athletes, league climbers and other routesetters with the mission of helping folks develop a lifelong, sustainable relationship with the sport we love. When she's not on the wall or mentoring the next generation, Taylor enjoys writing and listening to music, indulging in thrillers, and connecting with her community. On the podcast, Taylor and Holly talk about routesetting occupational hazards, both physical and mental burnout, and how to tackle these challenges. They dissect differences between common injuries in competition setting and commercial setting, how those injuries can lead to physical burnout in routesetting, and how you can form budget-conscious partnerships with local businesses that benefit routesetters. Taylor also speaks on private coaching and the inspiration behind her business. Finally, they break down some routesetting efficiencies and injury prevention tips for various levels of routesetting, workloads, and ability levels. Thank you Butora and Essential Climbing for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today host Scott Rennak sits down with Garnet Moore, Executive Director of the Climbing Wall Association. Garnet is one of the most connected and central figures in the North American climbing industry, overseeing both the CWA and their annual trade show, the CWA Summit. His origins in the manufacturing side have equipped him with a wide perspective on the climbing industry and climbing culture. During his tenure at CWA, he has steered the organization through the COVID pandemic, helping industry businesses regain their footing and go from surviving to thriving. Today, he's leading the charge to preserve the culture of personal responsibility in our climbing facilities. Scott and Garnet talk about all these topics and much more. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today's guest is Roy Quanstrom. Roy is a USA Climbing Level 4 Routesetter and he's a hold shaper, having created Trango's Fuegos Calientes and Khans shapes. He's also the facility sales coordinator at Trango. The main focus of today's episode is the idea of sustainability in the world of climbing holds. What does that even mean? How is sustainability achieved? Where are we at right now when it comes to sustainability in the climbing holds sector? And where are things going or where might things be going? So, if you've ever wondered about the green movement as it pertains to climbing holds, or if you've ever wondered about recycling climbing holds, this episode is for you. There's always more to say on such a big topic, and there are many hold brands and manufacturers coming together to drive the industry forward, but Roy packs a lot of valuable insights from his perspective as a setter and shaper into this conversation, as well as thoughts on how the routesetting trade has changed over time and what goes into a great crew. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today host Holly Chen meets with Armen Avanessian. Armen is the Head Routesetter and Operations Manager at Threshold Climbing in Oklahoma. Armen is a USAC Level 3 Routesetter and his setting career has spanned the state of Oklahoma, where he's worked as a desk staff member, routesetter, and now head routesetter and routesetting consultant. Coming up for Armen is the bouldering divisionals event at his home gym as well as his first time being the chief routesetter for a regionals event. Outside of slinging plastic, Armen is a route developer with several first ascents of boulders in the Wichita Mountains National Wildlife Refuge up to V double digits. Armen began consulting for gyms earlier this year, helping routesetters and gym managers build their hold selection, design setting programs, and educate setters. Also, this year Armen has been trying to diversify his hobbies and has picked up the guitar after a long hiatus. Holly and Armen's chat gets pretty technical, but they start off with an explainer on why gyms and routesetters might need consulting. They also talk about how the hold selection for the opening set can determine the style of climbing in the gym, and what differentiates an old-school hold selection from a contemporary or modern one. Armen offers a lot of practical tips on making the best out of tight hold budgets. He and Holly dissect the pros and cons of various grading systems. They touch on routesetter education, communication, leadership, and the four IFSC style components, getting into a deep discussion on which moves fit into which style component. Thank you Bold Climbing and RGP for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Welcome back to the Climbing Business Journal podcast. Today, host John Burgman chats with Josh Haynes. Josh first made waves in the industry as an elite-level climber, crushing top-shelf grades like V14s, 514b's, 514c's. But he also worked as a routesetter, which he talks about in this episode, and he had various staff roles at several different gyms. Most recently, he was hired as the new manager of Uplift Climbing in Shoreline, Washington. John and Josh talk about what Josh has gathered from those myriad experiences and how he plans to apply his insights to the managerial role at Uplift. A lot of Josh's wisdom about climbing gym management can be applied to communication at any staff level and also in any tier of the industry, not just managerial and not just at climbing gyms. We hope you enjoy this conversation with Josh Haynes! Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today host Holly Chen chats with Ally Cruz. Ally is a Trango Grassroots Athlete and a USAC Level 3 Routesetter with a decade of climbing experience. Her routesetting career began at her university's climbing wall and quickly graduated to a commercial setting job at Edgeworks Climbing and Fitness in Seattle, Washington. From there, she bounced to Utah, back to Edgeworks, and eventually settled in her current position as Assistant Headsetter at the Seattle Bouldering Project Poplar gym. She has set and chiefed for many USAC-sanctioned comps and most recently set for the Vail Citizens event and helped with the Vail NACS as well. Ally has also set for notable affinity comps, such as Crux Fest and Impact. Outside of climbing, Ally is a well-rounded outdoorswoman; she loves mountain biking and surfing. In today's episode, Holly and Ally take a nuanced look at tokenization. They discuss the signs that someone is being tokenized, the unseen harms of tokenization, and how it can pigeonhole setters into roles that limit their progression and professional development. Ally is a real trooper as she and Holly dive into a vulnerable topic about how tokenization can lead minorities to perceiving other minorities as competition, rather than support. But they do turn the topic around to the bright side and discuss tangible tips that setters, headsetters and chief routesetters can employ to make sure tokenization does not happen on their teams. And if you're wondering what tokenization has to do with Vans shoes, be sure to listen to the full episode below. Thank you Trango and EP Climbing for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today's guest is the founder and CEO of OnSite, Francis Larose. OnSite is based in Montreal, Quebec, and made history this past summer when it became likely the first North America-based wall manufacturer to complete a commercial climbing gym project in Europe. OnSite making the leap from the North American market to the European market is the reverse of what typically happens; much more common has been European builders pursuing gym projects in North America. That accomplishment for OnSite is a focal point of today's episode, but Francis and host John Burgman cover a lot of other ground too, including Francis's prior work in the video game industry, OnSite's urban boulders, and advice for other North American brands looking to go global. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

On this episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen meets with Annabelle Spingler. Annabelle has been climbing and working in climbing gyms since she was 17. She started as a birthday party belayer and coach but has always been intrigued by routesetting. So, when the headsetter accidentally stripped too much of the gym for a competition, she asked if she could set a few boulders to fill in the space, and that's how her routesetting journey began. Annabelle also loves setting for competitions, having set for two NACS competitions, Jackalope and other events, and she is currently a USAC L3 routesetter. In their chat today, Annabelle and Holly dissect an age-old concept: aesthetics versus function. To start, Annabelle defines aesthetics a little differently. They then talk about how function in a competition might be hard to nail down just by looking at results on paper; they bounce some ideas around on how to introduce advanced comp movement to a newer audience (Annabelle calls it spoon feeding); and they discuss what aesthetics means in a gym with tens of thousands of dollars to spend on macros and fiberglass versus a gym without those funds. Holly and Annabelle also chat about whether movement is finite or whether routesetters can “discover new movement.” And Annabelle lists some ways to help routesetters focus on aesthetics by giving them “zones.”

On today's episode of the CBJ Podcast, host John Burgman and guest Andrew Potter chat about gym startups, software startups, market analysis and much more in between. Andrew is the founder of the RoKC climbing gyms as well as the founder of the software company Approach. In starting both a gym and a gym management technology company, he's had a fascinating journey as an entrepreneur in the climbing industry. He's also gained experience and insights on how to get a business idea off the ground, how to stay tenacious in turning an idea into a reality, and how to keep up with changing business trends. There's business wisdom packed throughout this episode—all anchored by Andrew's belief in seeing a need in a market (or in an entire industry) and figuring out a way to create something that meets that need. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

On this episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen interviews Andy Nelson. Andy has been climbing since 1998, and he became the first paid routesetter at Vertical Endeavors in Minnesota around the mid 2000s. In the routesetting arena, he's done it all, from commercial setting and running a setting crew to comps all the way up to the divisional level. He worked for Nicros Volumes for a while and then, in his words, “went rogue” and “started shaping for everybody and their brother.” Andy has also seen every part of the hold manufacturing process, from being on the ground in a factory while pouring holds to design and branding work. Now, Andy owns and operates Method Grips. Andy and Holly start by diving into his memories of the good old days—or maybe the dark ages, some might say; a time when routesetters were paid by route and members did not have the luxury of choosing between gyms. They also talked about how Andy has witnessed the industry change over the years, some of the shifts that have allowed setters to do their job more safely and sustainably, and the potential of more oversight from government agencies in the future. Holly and Andy debated about whether routesetting is an art, and they got into some of the nitty-gritty details of holds, shaping materials, and the “evolutionary arms race” between routesetters and hold shapers. Thank you TRUBLUE and Strati Climbing for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

On this episode of the Climbing Business Journal podcast, host John Burgman meets with Climbing Roots owner Lindsay Runne. Climbing Roots' grand opening date is still a little up in the air, but the gym is getting ready to open its doors. During their conversation, John and Lindsay discuss some of the logistics of opening a new gym, what the whole process has been like for Lindsay, and what has gone into getting a gym ready to open. They also dive into Lindsay's decision to offer 24-hour access at Climbing Roots, an amenity that a number of other gyms have considered offering or are offering. Lindsay's insights can help other gym owners and managers get some clarity on the idea, or maybe just expand the conversation about 24-hour gym access. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today The Impact Driver host Holly Chen meets with Claire Gordon, a former competitive youth athlete turned coach and gym owner. Claire has a bachelor's degree in psychology with an emphasis on development psychology, and her coaching spans from coast to coast; from First Ascent in Chicago to Planet Granite Portland (now Movement), ABC Kids Climbing in Boulder, and finally starting her own independent team, PinkPoint Training in 2023. At PinkPoint, Claire does everything from coaching to administration to sponsorships, and, of course, routesetting. If asked what her proudest climbing accomplishments are, Claire will say it's her kids. Her athletes have gone to youth nationals, youth worlds, and are shaped into lifelong lovers of the sport. In the summer of 2024, Claire achieved a lifelong dream of opening her own climbing gym and began The Campus Climbing in North Boulder, due to open in early 2025. In this conversation, Claire and Holly talk about routesetting for a targeted, specific audience: elite youth athletes. They also talk about the unique structure of independent youth teams, what comp climbing really is, and how unpredictable it can be for climbers and coaches during comp day. They get into the weeds about coaching movement techniques and handling emotional pressure. And with Claire's extensive experience coaching with commercial gyms, they cover how to translate her tailored routesetting and coaching skills to commercial gyms. Last but not least, they talk about the old school routesetting mindset of forcing movement and how that can be a disservice to not just youth athletes, but the community at large. We hope you enjoy this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast! Thank you Approach and Kilter for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

On this episode of the Climbing Business Journal Podcast, host John Burgman speaks with Hailey Caissie. Hailey is the Programs Manager at The Crag in Tennessee, and she is also the author of 101 Climbing Games and Activities. So, for anyone who struggles to think of games to play in youth programs or even adult programs, this book may be an interesting resource. It's a tool that could be helpful to coaches, parents, youth athletes, managers, and simply anyone who climbs. John and Hailey discuss the writing process a bit and how the book came to be, and Hailey shares several games covered in her book, from Blind Climb to Tug of War. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

On this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast, host Holly Chen talks with Blake Green. Blake is the head setter at High Point Climbing and Fitness in Birmingham, Alabama. A veteran of the craft with over a decade of routesetting experience under his belt, Blake is a USAC Level 4 routesetter and has set for everything from qualifier to national-level USAC youth competitions. In his spare time, he loves to read and develop routes in his home of the American Southeast. Blake studied philosophy for both his undergraduate and master's degrees, so he brings a novel perspective to routesetting, his passion for which is conspicuous. Blake and Holly look at routesetting and climbing culture through the lens of social theory, behavioral economics, and how one defines success as a routesetter. They discuss several books in today's episode, with Blake outlining the main concepts covered. The pair also talked about different kinds of learning environments, the “10,000-Hour Rule,” and the adaptation of social theory to diverse routesetting crews. Blake talks about the mistakes he made over the years and how they shaped his perception going forward. And they get into the weeds on specific moves, competitions, and the limits of the USAC system. We hope you enjoy this episode of the Impact Driver Podcast! Thank you EP Climbing and Rock Gym Pro for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Evan Pearce is the Senior Director of Movement Gyms Colorado. Pearce came from humble beginnings at what is now Movement Sunnyvale—his first industry position was as a front desk worker, which did include the occasional birthday party belay. He then became the assistant manager at the Sunnyvale gym, then became a manager at Movement Belmont, eventually working his way up to Senior Director in Colorado. All of these different career advancements and experiences gave Pearce the knowledge he shares in this podcast episode, especially regarding insights into working in and moving through certain gym roles, gym programming, and measuring success. He also mentions some summer camp hacks for tired kids. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Kegan Minock is the Gym Director and Head Routesetter at Gripstone Climbing in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Having gotten his start in the industry through the youth competition scene, Kegan began setting at Lifetime Fitness at the age of 17 before transitioning into setting at commercial facilities and becoming a USAC Level 4 routesetter. His industry career thus far has spanned leading routesetting at the iconic 90s gym ROCK'n & JAM'n to shaping holds of his own for setters. Our conversation today covers industry growing pains, what it means to be a professional routesetter, the evolution of the trade, the ethics of unpaid work, and the effects of social media on routesetting. Thank you Approach and Bold Climbing for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today's guest is Gavin Heverly, consultant and founder of Rise Above Consulting. Gavin has been working in and around climbing gyms since the late 90s, helping grow gym communities of all sizes, from mom-and-pops businesses to multi-market gym chains. Over his two decades of managing climbing gyms, he's become an expert in scaling, people operations, program development, risk management, and much more. Our conversation today centers on market saturation, differentiation, professionalism, and outdoor impacts as climbing grows. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Chris Klinke is the President of Trango, a Colorado-based designer and manufacturer of climbing gear and holds, with history dating back to the company's founding in 1991 by Malcolm Daly. Trango is now a producer of carabiners, harnesses, chalk, hangboards, ropes and more, and the company is also a distributor of Tenaya shoes in the U.S. Chris specifically has had a really fascinating, winding path to getting to the role of president of Trango, and he has gained a lot of business acumen from that multifaceted career journey. As a side note, be sure to start writing down your goals, whatever they may be, because written goals have played a crucial role in helping Chris experience such a cool life and career. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Today's episode features Buck Yedor, also known as “Big Wall Buck'' at The Spot Gyms in Colorado, where he oversees routesetting at the five Spot locations. True to his nickname in Colorado—and his Yosemite nickname “Bouldering Buck”—Yedor's proudest climbing accomplishments include a ground-up free ascent of Freerider on El Capitan and double-digit boulders. Before The Spot, he worked on the Yosemite search and rescue team and was the Head Routesetter of Northern California gyms at Touchstone Climbing. Yedor has set for a couple of National Cups, chiefed the Battle of the Bay, and most recently set for both a sport and bouldering North American Cup. In this episode, Yedor covers the ins and outs of managing a multi-gym routesetting program and the importance of strong leadership starting from the top down. He also discusses the nuances of setting grade and quality consistency among multiple gyms under the same brand, building an environment of consistent learning, considerations for hiring novice setters, encouraging setters to explore different perspectives, and the ever-evolving trends of the routesetting industry versus the wants and needs of the community. Thank you EP Climbing and Trango for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Bryan Pletta founded Stone Age Climbing Gym in Albuquerque, New Mexico, in the 1990s. On this episode of the CBJ Podcast, Pletta details what it was like to create the gym, and he expounds on the gym's progression over the years—ultimately resulting in two current locations, Stone Age North and Stone Age Midtown. Pletta also discusses “gym culture” of the 1990s: How that culture has changed since then, and also how the culture has not actually changed that much. Pletta also talks about the logistics of hosting competitions and the benefits of competitions for any gym. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

On this episode of The Impact Driver Podcast, Holly Chen—routesetter, journalist, and contributing writer at CBJ—hosts Kasia Pietras, a legendary, OG routesetter. Kasia has been climbing since 1996 and setting since 2003. She has set for almost 100 competitions—91 to be exact—at the time of recording. Kasia is a USAC Level 4 routesetter, SPI and CWI certified, teaches USAC Setting Clinics on occasion, and is currently working at Kilter Grips in Frederick, Colorado. She's also among the first cohorts of setters who saw a routesetting transition from unpaid volunteer work to a fully-fledged profession. Holly and Kasia's conversation begins with a walk down memory lane, then covers conflicts that can arise between routesetting teams and gym management, insider knowledge, setter burnout, and more. Thank you Trango and Rock Gym Pro for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Javier Díaz co-founded a gym, Sierra Elevation, in Mexico with business partner Adrian Hovelman in 2021. Two years later, Sierra Elevation merged with Adamanta, the leading climbing gym chain in Mexico. Packed into that multi-year period was an on-the-ground education for Díaz, as he learned what it took to operate a gym in Mexico, realized the advantages of partnering with a larger entity, and borrowed ideas and concepts from gyms that he had visited in the United States. In this episode of the CBJ podcast, Díaz discusses that backstory, while providing a brief history of Mexico's gym scene and giving some valuable assessments of Mexico's climbing gym culture. He also explains why he thinks Mexico's climbing gym industry is on the cusp of a veritable boom period and about to “go big.” Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Joining Holly Chen on the Impact Driver podcast this week is Claire Kawainui Miller, a crew leader at Touchstone Climbing, USAC Level 2 Routesetter, climbing movement enthusiast and loving mother of two cats. Claire and Holly's simultaneously fun and serious conversation meanders from gender inequities to ladder fiascos and covers Claire's most controversial setting opinion, the pervasiveness of imposter syndrome, offering inspiration and energy to coworkers, keeping comp climbers “sketched out,” the value of wide representation and different perspectives in all things, and at least one setting exercise you won't forget. Thank you Vertical Solutions and TRUBLUE for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Jen Piperno is the Executive Director at Teton Rock Gym in Driggs, Idaho. Teton Rock Gym is unique because it is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit, and that designation frames the gym's operation, outlook and funding. In this episode, Piperno explains more about what it means for a climbing gym to be a nonprofit business and how such designation can allow a facility to uniquely connect with the local community. Piperno also discusses how her various academic and professional pursuits—including earning a master's degree in nonprofit management with a concentration in social business—ultimately led to her current distinctive role in the climbing gym industry. Thank you OnSite for your support! And thank you Devin Dabney for your music!

Routesetting as a shorter setter doesn't come with a shortage of challenges and frustrations. But that's far from the full story for Abby Tran, Assistant Headsetter at The Circuit Bouldering Gyms in Portland, Oregon. On this episode of the Impact Driver podcast, unabashedly short setters Abby and Holly Chen discuss some of the benefits that shorter people bring to the setting world; the importance of empathy, trust and respect on setting teams; training for setting as a shorter setter and a setter in general; enjoying both aesthetic climbs and a “wrestle” on the wall; avoiding “featherbagging” as well as sandbagging; and at one point, Abby's cat sneaks onto the show. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Essential and Strati.

Today I talk to Mathieu Ackermann, who is one of the shapers at Flathold, the other creative mastermind there being Manuel Hassler, whose name you will hear mentioned in this episode as well. But back to Mathieu. He is a fascinating subject because his shaping at Flathold combines a love for outdoor climbing with some formal art training and education, and all with an open embrace of what Mathieu calls the new school style of climbing and shaping. And speaking of that new school style, if you watched the Bern World Championships, you saw the unveiling of some clear, no-texture holds from Flathold. They made huge waves in the comp climbing world. So Mathieu and I talk all about the creation of those clear, no tex-holds, and we talk about how Flathold wasn't even sure if the IFSC would allow those holds to be used at the World Championships. There's a cool little story there. So let's jump into my conversation with Mathieu Ackermann at Flathold. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Approach and TRUBLUE.

Today's guest is John McGowan. I don't even know the single best way to describe John. Entrepreneur, business developer, old school climber but new school visionary, adventurer, all of the above. I will say this: If someone were putting together a list of the most important figures of the climbing gym industry of the past 35 or 40 years, basically as long as there has been some semblance of an American climbing gym industry, John McGowan would absolutely be one of the names on it. He has started businesses that have contributed immensely to key evolutions of the climbing industry, as you will hear about. In terms of his resume, he founded Boulder Rock Club in 1990. He and a business partner, Steve Holmes, then founded Eldorado Climbing Walls a few years after that. Later, he and Steve Holmes also started TRUBLUE auto belays. And more recently he was involved in founding Riversmith, which is a company that he will explain more about in the conversation. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Kilter and TRUBLUE.

Today's guests are Foxman McCarthy-James and Justin Wright. Foxman is the Head Setter at Alta Climbing & Fitness and Alta Boulders in Arizona, while Justin is the Director of Routesetting at Edgeworks Climbing & Fitness in Washington. Between the two, they have over 25 years of setting experience and even more climbing experience. Together, they cofounded Vortex Routesetting, a company that provides setter development and training, competition management, and consultations. In this wide-ranging conversation, Fox, Justin and I talk about the rise in demand for setting consultations, the bottlenecks of setting education, and the numbers behind the scenes of the setting trade, from pay and workload to setter professional development. Justin and Fox offer their expertise and insights, demonstrating how all of those trends are more interlinked than perhaps previously thought. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Strati Climbing and Trango.

We are talking industry trade shows today. Specifically, today's guest is Travis Williams, who founded sToKed Climbing with his wife, Kimberly, and more recently founded the Indoor Climbing Expo. More than a trade show, the Expo is a new industry gathering, or festival, that combines routesetting clinics, educational sessions, roundtables, competitions, local crag tours, and of course plenty of networking opportunities. The Expo will be held in Tennessee at the Chattanooga Convention Center from December 13-16, and CBJ is actually the official media partner for the event. So, we wanted to circle up with Travis on a podcast episode to talk a little more about the Expo, the idea behind the event, who will be there and who should be there—which means you! The Expo was made for all professionals and climbers in the industry. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Essential Climbing and Vertical Solutions.

Today's guest is Dean Privett. He's the founder of Iron City Boulders in Pittsburgh and Blue Swan Boulders in Orlando; he's also the president of Moments Climbing, a European gym chain operating three facilities in Finland. Privett gives his take on some of the ways the U.S. climbing gym industry and the European climbing gym industry are similar and different, based on his experience and conversations he's had in his line of work. He dives into climbing gym construction and operating costs, location preferences, where U.S. gyms may be behind or ahead of the game, and other characteristics of climbing gyms across the pond versus gyms stateside. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Butora and TRUEBLUE.

In this episode of the CBJ Podcast, we're chatting with Jean-Marc de la Plante, who is a business leader in the Canadian climbing gym scene. He owns or co-owns several gyms in Canada under the UPLIFY development banner: three Allez Up gyms (Montreal), two Seven Bays Bouldering gyms (Halifax), two BoulderHouse gyms (Victoria), Up The Bloc (Mississauga), The Rock Oasis and Joe Rockhead's (Toronto). A developer of facilities spread all throughout the country, de la Plante shares some insights in this interview on what he looks for when considering a new market or region for a gym, the evolution of the climbing gym industry in Canada, and what he appreciates most about climbing and gyms. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Kilter and Vertical Solutions.

Today's guest is Stephanie Myr, a climber of almost a decade and a routesetter for just as long. Myr is currently the head setter at Climb Tacoma in Tacoma, Washington. She began her setting career volunteering at the local YMCA before joining the Climb Tacoma staff. In addition to routesetting, Myr also manages the gym and coaches the youth team. If you're wondering why she sounds so familiar, it's probably because you've come across an Instagram account she founded and co-manages, called Expensive Boulders. In today's wide-ranging conversation, Myr talks about social media's impact on routesetting, aesthetics versus function, her philosophy and approach, and, of course, rock climbing. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Kilter and Trango.

Retail plays a key role in most gyms' day-to-day operations, while also being a visual component of the facility, so today's conversation is all about gym retail: what sales strategies work well, what doesn't work so well; what sells, what doesn't sell. We speak with Brad Werntz, President of the two Boulders climbing gyms in Madison, Wisconsin, both of which have retail components. As a longtime gym operator and former sales representative for various climbing brands, Werntz has seen the business value of a well-managed retail area, as well as some potential pitfalls to avoid. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Strati and Essential.

Today we sit down with Sam Van Boxtel, who runs the popular Climbers Crag channels on Instagram and YouTube and has teamed up with Tom Randall to manage social media profiles for top climbing brands through their Climbers Crag agency. Van Boxtel has been around the block in the climbing gym industry, having worked on the ground in front desk, routesetting and marketing roles. The intersection of marketing and climbing is his specialty, and he's got a number of tips and tricks up his sleeve for industry professionals. We talk about how Instagram, in particular, can be a valuable tool in any marketing mix—whether you're a gym operator, freelance setter, coach or national brand—why having more followers may not always be a good thing for your account, and which low-hanging fruit in social media marketing to pick first. Our host is Scott Rennak with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Kilter and Butora.

Jackson Scott told his parents that he wanted to open a climbing gym, and although there was a lot of hard work along the way, the end result was Crux Climbing, which is operated and co-owned by Scott and his parents. It was a family dream that became a family reality. Scott talks about that process of starting a family-owned gym in this episode. He also reflects on some of the lessons learned within the gym's first year of operations, offering advice to anyone else who might be dreaming of opening a “mom-and-pop”-style climbing facility. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Vertical Solutions and TRUBLUE.

A couple weeks ago, Dr. Eugen Burtscher and Dr. Volker Schöffl (@volkerschoeffl) made headlines when they resigned from their volunteer positions on the IFSC's Medical Commission. Dr. Burtscher served as the Chair of the Commission, and Dr. Schöffl was a Commission member for more than a decade. Following their resignations, a lengthy post on Dr. Schöffl's Instagram page cited repeated “non-action” on the part of the IFSC to “detect, evaluate and help” athletes with disordered eating. “The current politics with regards to RED-S cannot be accepted,” the Instagram post stated, specifically referencing the broad condition of Relative Energy Deficiency in Sport (RED-S). In this episode of the CBJ Podcast, Dr. Schöffl provides further background on his resignation, explains more about RED-S and its potential dire consequences, and offers some ideas and directions for possible solutions to the complex topic of disordered eating in climbing. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney.

Siege Climbing is a competition series set for and by women, non-binary and gender minorities in the community. With us today is Hannah Barker (pronouns she/her), founder of Siege Climbing. Hannah is deep in the competition setting scene, and she works to mentor and uplift other underrepresented people in the industry. We also have Jiarra Chiang here (pronouns she/he/they), head routesetter and maintenance man at Vertical Ventures. Jiarra has set throughout the Southeast and is currently finishing up internships toward her L3 this USA climbing season. Last but not least, Hayley Moran (pronouns she/her). Hayley is an L3 routesetter and advocator of the professionalization of the routesetting industry. The trio finished up their first season of Siege Climbing comps last year and are now in the middle of the second one. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Trango and Vertical Solutions.

Wade Desai is the Director of Climbing at ASCEND in the Pittsburgh area. As you'll hear, he certainly loves climbing, but he's also passionate about slacklining and accomplished at it too. Since starting at ASCEND in 2017, he's seen slacklining take off as a programming offering and has been helping lead the charge. Could more climbing gyms offer slacklining? And if so, what are some of the steps that a gym should take to get a slacklining program started? Those questions guide today's conversation, and we'll also hear more about Desai's fascinating transition from a doctor in the medical field to a director in the climbing gym industry. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Strati and EP Climbing.

Jackie Pettitt has been coaching for the past 12 years and specializes in climbing movement, technique, and mental toughness training. Over the years, she has helped athletes reach Nationals, Youth Worlds and other championship events. She also mentors head coaches, helping them become great leaders and establish well-rounded programs. In this episode, Pettitt brought her knowledge of the industry to the table, covering her career as a climbing coach, her thoughts on coaching education, tips on hiring a coaching team, and much more.  Our host is Zoe Leibovitch with music by Devin Dabney and sponsors Vertical Solutions and Butora.

Today's episode features a conversation with attorney Jason Pill. Jason is a longtime climber, and he currently works with the Phelps Dunbar law firm in Tampa, Florida. His main areas of focus tend to be labor and employment law, but he's written articles for CBJ on a wide range of legal topics, including an entire Ask a Lawyer series. In this episode, Jason shares some insights about waivers and how protective they really are against lawsuits, some landmark cases and rulings that gym owners should know about, and legal challenges that gym owners might be facing in the years to come. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Kilter and Strati.

Today's guest is Louie Anderson, a setter who needs no introduction, but we're going to introduce him anyway for the listeners who may be new to routesetting. Louie has been heavily involved in the U.S. setting industry since its beginning. Setting since 1987, Louie is also a route developer, a hold shaper, and he owns the Ten Sleep Rock Ranch in Wyoming. Nowadays, Louie is known for hosting advanced setting clinics all over the country, new gym and competition setting consultations, and manages the popular Setter Showdown routesetting competition. Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors TRUBLUE and Butora.

Dave Hudson has been involved in climbing business for a long time, specifically on the youth coaching and organizational and competition judging sides of things, and his involvement in all that actually predates much of the youth comp climbing scene we know today. Hudson's currently the youth manager at First Ascent; he's also the head coach there. In our conversation together, we dove into his journey in the industry and the youth programming at First Ascent, the impact of the Olympics on youth program participation rates, how youth programs have changed in the past 5-10 years, as well as the rise of data-driven, research-based training. Our host is John Burgman with music by Devin Dabney, and sponsors Essential Climbing and TRUBLUE.

In this episode we sit down with routesetter and wildlife biologist Sierra McMurry. They experience obstacles every routesetter experiences, such as navigating fair pay and equitable workloads, but they also navigate obstacles that others might not, like how they take up space as a queer setter and communicate about sensitive topics with colleagues. We discussed the sustainability of routesetting careers, what the industry is doing right, as well as where we might go in the future. We also talked about how notable mentors can teach us lessons that we carry with us as the industry evolves. That idea begs the question: What wisdom will you hold onto and keep applying to your setting leadership style as times change, and what will you let go of to make way for something new? Our host is Holly Yu Tung Chen with sound editing by Devin Daney, and sponsors Essential Climbing and Strati.