Podcasts about cooperative care

Co-editor of Low Stress Handling: A Practical Guide to Cooperative Care, Training, and Behavior Modification, veterinary behaviorist Dr. Christine Calder explains what cooperative care is about. For example, how you may train your dog or cat to comply contentedly with having nails trimmed. And what's the most important cue you can teach a cat or dog? […]

 This week, we're answering the question "If he hates it, why on earth would you do it more often?"  Oh, this is such a great question. We're gonna have so much fun covering this one because I think we hear that a lot from our owners, but we also hear that from the non dog trainers. A lot of dog pros who aren't dog trainers might also question this. So we're gonna break it down this week For full transcripts, go to the audio episode on CreatingGreatGroomingDogs.com You can also listen to this episode as a podcast on my website or anywhere you listen to podcasts. For more information about my classes- The full diploma program Master Groomer Behavior Specialist(MGBS) diploma program Shorter courses- Modern Behavior & Handling for Groomers Groom S.M.A.R.T. Want to support the show? Buy Me A Coffee!

Nail trims, medications, grooming - it can be so much easier once you and your dog have a relationship based on trust and cooperation. Here is how to get it.

Do you know the difference between cooperative care and low stress handling? You should! It's important if you want to maintain a trusting relationship with your dog.   Follow my training! Instagram The High Drive Dog More online training! Fenzi Dog Sports Academy

In this episode Dr. Katerina Junghansova (Kate) and I chat about cooperative care for horses. Kate is an equine veterinarian, lifelong equestrian, animal lover, and the founder of an educational project called VetCareTraining. Her mission is to promote safe, and ethical horse handling and training. She is really passionate about equine cooperative care, and she thinks it´s the future of equine health care. In her project, she offers online courses and individual online consultations. She also teaches clinics and seminars focused on helping horse owners, as well as equine professionals, handle horses in an easier, safer, more effective, and more ethical way during daily care, veterinary or husbandry procedures, and other real-life situations.  Find Kate: Insta Threads Facebook YouTube

Hey Friends! Here's a bonus episode for your feed from one of my favorite podcasts, Trainer Talks and Tails! Daisy and Tess are joined by Steph Lauren from Halls Gap Zoo to discuss training the red pandas there, including some things I've not heard of before. Enjoy! Don't forget to subscribe to the Trainer Talks and Tails podcast and follow along @trainertalksandtails on socials! Wild Times: Wildlife EducationWildlife mysteries, crazy news, and daring animal stories—listen now!Listen on: Apple Podcasts Spotify

Let's chat red pandas!! Steph joins us from Halls Gap Zoo where she shares how her team were able to successful take a blood draw from the pandas! We touch on the prior behaviors that helped set this up for success and how they hope to maintain it going forward. You can find the podcast on socials @trainertalksandtails or reach out for feedback on trainertalksandtails@outlook.com.

This week, we're talking about cooperative care in the real world. What do we really need to focus on? This episode is primarily for trainers, but also for anyone who communicates with them. The grooming world has some unique challenges and specific goals that set it apart. We'll talk about Grooming as a Very Elaborate Stand Stay. The Bitey End of the Dog: Chrissy Neumyer Smith  For full transcripts, go to the audio episode on CreatingGreatGroomingDogs.com You can also listen to this episode as a podcast on my website or anywhere you listen to podcasts. You can watch episodes at youtube.com/@creatinggreatgroomingdogs For more information about my classes, go to MasterGroomerBehaviorSpecialist.com or go to the Whole Pet Grooming Academy website https://education.wholepetnh.com/master-groomer-behavior-specialist Want to support the show? Buy Me A Coffee!

Want to know more about what control can look like for the animals you work with? This is the episode for you! Ari and Chris are joined by Khaz Brooks and Ryan Talbot to talk about the work they did with (what they learned was) assent training at Wolf Park. They share how research into ABA and control gave them new language for giving their wolves a stronger voice in their training, how higher level training isn't as "magical" as it sometimes looks (it's about effort!), the joy of giving animals new skillsets, and the value of finding your fellow nerds.  If you have a shout-out you'd like us to share, a question or a topic you'd like us to discuss, or a suggestion for a guest we should have on the show, let us know at podcast@naturalencounters.com! References from the episode:  An Introduction to Cooperative Care for Canines - Big Bad Rescue Network Foundations of of Preemptive Compassion: A Behavioral Concept Analysis of Compulsion, Consent, and Assent (Linnehan et al., 2023) Can There Be Compassion Without Assent? A Nonlinear Constructional Approach (Abdel-Jalil et al., 2023)

Join Laura Cassiday and Joanna Wachowiak-Finlaison as they chat and chuckle with Laura Monaco Torelli about cooperative care with cats! Laura Monaco Torelli is the founder of Animal Behavior Training Concepts in Chicago, Illinois. Her career began in 1991 with Chicago's Shedd Aquarium, where she was part of the animal care team for beluga whales, dolphins, sea otters, seals, river otters, and penguins. After nearly a decade at the Shedd, she moved on to the San Diego Zoo and then Brookfield Zoo as a lead supervisory trainer. During her time in the zoo community, Laura worked with a wide variety of species, including primates, large cats, birds of prey, horses, parrots, tree kangaroos, giraffes, red pandas, and dogs.  Laura is a faculty instructor of Karen Pryor Academy for Animal Training & Behavior and serves as a teaching assistant for Dr. Susan G. Friedman's Living & Learning with Animals online course. She has presented at professional conferences and taught seminars across the United States, Italy, Sweden, United Kingdom, Singapore, Japan, and Caribbean. She has been an invited speaker for numerous conferences that include the American Veterinary Medical Association Convention, Midwest Veterinary Conference, Penn Vet Working Dog Conference, ClickerExpo, and the Aggression in Dogs Conference.  Laura has appeared on various broadcast media, including FOX 32, WGN, NBC 5 news, WGN Radio with Steve Dale, and WCIU's You & Me This Morning. She contributed training video content for the Fear Free Professional Trainer Certification program and the Karen Pryor Academy Better Vet Visits online course.

Today we're talking to renowned trainer Deb Jones, Ph.D., about Cooperative Care - the most important skills you're (probably) not training your dog to do!  Also called Consent Care or Husbandry, I'm referring to the procedures needed to keep dogs healthy such as veterinary care and grooming. If you'd rather get a root canal than take your dog to the vet or if you can't trim your dog's nails without needing a drink afterwards, then you won't want to miss this conversation. Deb is the author of the book Cooperative Care: Seven Steps to Stress-Free Husbandry  (aff. link). Her methods encourage our dogs to become willing partners in the training process rather than using heavy-handed or forceful practices that can damage our relationship with our dog and hurt their trust. Deb shares with us what she learned from dolphin trainers that will help our dogs, what to do if you accidentally “quick” your dog while trimming their nails and how to handle those times when your dog needs immediate care to avoid causing a setback in your training and relationship. We'll also hear the #1 most common skill that veterinarians wish Pet Parents trained their dogs to do! While Deb's former “day job” was as a Ph.D. Psychologist who taught in colleges, it's fascinating how her work intertwined with her dog training passion. And as someone who's been training dogs for 30+ years, Deb has so much insight to share about her experiences in the dog training world and the changes she's witnessed in how we treat dogs as a society. You can also find Deb teaching online training classes and in her Cooperative Care with Deb Jones Facebook Group.   Find links & show notes at: https://believeindogpodcast.com/episodes-1/episode95   Get your free checklist: Join Erin the Dog Mom's email list to receive the 12 Changes in Your Dog to Never Ignore checklist. Teef: The easiest way to improve your dog's dental health is with a spoonful of Teef powder in their water.  Save 20% on your Teef orders when you use the code: ADM. Support this podcast, subscribe on your favorite app and leave a rating or review.

This week, we'll talk about the "it came out of nowhere" bites. Some bites happen without warning, but what can cause that? What subtle warnings might have been missed? Now, whether you're a seasoned groomer or just starting out, this episode will give you some insights and help you have a safer, more understanding work environment.  For full transcripts, go to the episode on CreatingGreat GroomingDogs.com You can also listen to this episode as a podcast on my website or anywhere you listen to podcasts. You can watch episodes at youtube.com/@creatinggreatgroomingdogs For more information about my classes, go to MasterGroomerBehaviorSpecialist.com or go to the Whole Pet Grooming Academy website WholePetNH.com Want to support the show? Buy Me A Coffee! #CreatingGreatGroomingDogs #DogGrooming #PetGrooming #DogTraining #GroomerLife #DogBehavior #PetSafety #GroomingTips #PetProfessionals #GroomingEducation #SafeGrooming #DogLovers #PetPodcast #DogBites

In this third episode of our series, Eva Bertilsson returns to discuss advanced cooperative care techniques in animal training. With a focus on enhancing autonomy and participation, Eva offers insights into the use of "start buttons" that allow animals to initiate interactions, which is crucial for building trust and cooperation. This session provides practical advice on creating positive and engaging training experiences using positive reinforcement. Eva explains how these methods not only improve routine care but also support complex behavioral adjustments. The episode is aimed at intermediate to advanced animal trainers looking to deepen their understanding of animal behavior and training ethics. Listeners will learn strategies to make training sessions enjoyable and effective, emphasizing respect for animal well-being and autonomy. Eva Bertilsson's approach offers a comprehensive view of modern training techniques that prioritize ethical considerations and animal welfare. LINKS Eva's website >>> https://evabertilsson.com/ Click here to access the exclusive Australasian event page on Eva Bertilsson's website. Click here to visit Canine Education Academy website and join their newsletter to stay up-to-date with Eva Bertilsson's event in Australia. Click here for Canine Education Academy Australia's Eva Bertilsson workshop event on Facebook. Click here for the ATA & Pawsitive Behaviours New Zealand workshop event with Eva Bertilsson on Facebook.

In Episode 224 of the ATA podcast show, host Ryan Cartlidge reconnects with Eva Bertilsson for an insightful part two of their conversation on cooperative care. Building on the foundational information from Episode 219, this session dives deeper into effective strategies and ideas. Through the lens of real-world scenarios, such as Fibi's [Ryan's dog] eye-cleaning discomfort, Eva shares her expertise in creating positive learning environments that respect animal autonomy and foster engagement. Here's a breakdown of the key themes discussed in the episode; Understanding Animal Cues Observation is Key: Recognizing subtle behaviors in animals like Fibi can significantly enhance training effectiveness. Behavioral Responses: Discusses how animals communicate discomfort and stress, emphasizing the importance of adapting training methods accordingly. The Role of Start Buttons Empowering Animals: Introduces the concept of "start buttons" in training, allowing animals to initiate interactions and training sequences. Creating Comfort: Focuses on building a comfortable and stress-free training environment where animals feel safe and understood. Practical Training Insights Simplifying the Process: Advocates for a simplified approach to training that prioritises positive reinforcement and allows for opting out. Avoiding Aversives: Warns against the use of aversives in training, suggesting they can lead to avoidant behaviors. Engagement Over Rules: Encourages focusing on the overall attitude and engagement of learners, rather than strict adherence to specific rules. Through Eva Bertilsson's expertise and Ryan Cartlidge's thoughtful questioning, listeners are offered a masterclass in refining their training practices to be more aligned with the needs and well-being of their animal companions. This episode serves as a reminder of the transformative power of empathy, observation, and respect in the world of animal training and specifically with cooperative care.

Not one, but two ungulate specialists joined us this week! Vicky and Jess, both from Auckland Zoo, chat all about their primary species, rhino, giraffe and nyala! There share their cooperative care training focuses for all species including important dental work and hoof care. We chat about challenges they face and future training goals! If you have any questions for Vicky or Jess, you can reach out to them on vicky.smith@aucklandzoo.co.nz or jess.burgess@aucklandzoo.co.nz. You can find the podcast on socials @trainertalksandtails or for feedback or queries on trainertalksandtails@outlook.com.

In this week's interview episode, we're joined by Dr. Valli Parthasarathy the owner of Synergy Veterinary Behavior in Portland, Oregon, where she helps families whose dogs, cats, birds, horses, and other species show problematic behaviors. In this episode, you're going to hear Emily and Valli talk about:Common behavior issues in various speciesCooperative care for significant behavioral special needsThe ROI of sedation for medical proceduresDr. Valli's journey with a teenage Dutch ShepherdYou can find the full episode show notes here. On average, it takes our team 15 minutes to write a training plan. And that's not because we're special. We teach other professionals how we do this and they give us the same feedback, an effective training plan in only 15 minutes. If that sounds like exactly what you need right now, then join our 3-Day Challenge: The 15-Minute Training Plan. Just think about all the time you're about to save.

In this episode we welcome the remarkable Eva Bertilsson, a behaviour analyst and co-founder of Carpe Momentum, renowned for her pioneering work in animal behaviour and cooperative care. Eva Bertilsson brings a wealth of knowledge to today's discussion, aimed at assisting you, the listener, in navigating the often-stressful challenges of cooperative care, both for you and your clients. Our special guest; Eva Bertilsson, From her humble beginnings at a local dog club to becoming an international educator. Her insights into R+ approaches, behavioural principles, and quality of life enhancement are invaluable. Her collaboration in Carpe Momentum and various other partnerships symbolize her commitment to pioneering animal care. The Plan: Listen, Learn, and Impact Listen to the episode to immerse yourself in Eva's profound insights on cooperative care. Grow your skills, knowledge, and confidence through Eva's shared experiences and strategies. Impact the lives of animal and human learners by applying what you learn! We don't want you to feel stressed and overwhelmed by cooperative care challenges, we're here to support your growth in skills and knowledge. Our aim is to build your confidence empowering you to make a profound positive impact on the lives you touch. LINKS Eva's website >>> https://evabertilsson.com/ Click here to access the exclusive Australasian event page on Eva Bertilsson's website. Click here to visit Canine Education Academy website and join their newsletter to stay up-to-date with Eva Bertilsson's event in Australia. Click here for Canine Education Academy Australia's Eva Bertilsson workshop event on Facebook. Click here for the ATA & Pawsitive Behaviours New Zealand workshop event with Eva Bertilsson on Facebook.

In episode 71, Marissa Martino interviews Dr. Sophie Liu about cooperative care, a process offering choice and agency to our animals when it comes to training for husbandry procedures. Marissa and Dr. Liu met through a mutual client who needed support for her dog in a veterinary setting. During this episode, they break down the training process as best they can so the listeners can imagine how to try this at home. They discuss how and why they make certain training decisions along the way in the hopes of highlighting their thought process to answer pressing questions most clients have.     Dr. Sophie Liu is a veterinarian practicing behavior medicine and is a passionate dog trainer and sports competitor. She provides behavior consultations through her business, Oakland Canine, and she currently shares her life with 2 Dobermans, 1 Taiwan rescue dog, and a very patient husband.

Join Laura Cassiday and Joanna Wachowiak-Finlaison as they chat and chuckle with Tabitha Kucera, RVT, VTS (Behavior), about cooperative care for cats—an important topic since significantly fewer cats than dogs see a veterinarian every year, and cooperative care can make vet visits less stressful and more comprehensive for cats! Tabitha Kucera is an Elite Fear Free and Low-Stress Handling Certified Registered Veterinary Technician, VTS (Behavior), Certified Cat Behavior Consultant, and Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner. She is the owner of Chirrups and Chatter Cat and Dog Behavior Consulting and Training in Cleveland, Ohio. She is a Fear Free certified speaker and coach, a Fear Free Practice Certification Consultant, host of the Tails from a Vet Tech podcast, and serves on the Pet Professional Guild's Feline Division. Tabitha has helped to develop training and behavior programs for various veterinary hospitals and shelters, and she works as a consultant for many shelters and private veterinary practices.

Zara Jackson began her animal training career in 2008 when she started a voluntary position in a local zoo in their sea lion and penguin section. Zara moved onto a full-time position as a sea lion trainer and was hooked on the science and art of animal training. She then set up and supervised animal training programmes for other species across the zoo including large carnivores, small mammals and birds. Having seen the welfare benefits for sea lions she was keen for other species to benefit from training for cooperative care too.In 2021 Zara opened her dog training business Tarka Dog Training based in Devon UK. She specialises in working with reactive dogs and dogs with a fear of grooming and vet visits.Zara sat down for a conversation with Victoria to share some of her cooperative training experiences.Resources and InformationZara Jackson, Tarka Dog Training, https://www.tarkadogtraining.co.uk, tarkadogtraining@gmail.com Zara carrying out oral exam training with Bob, her German Shepherd  https://youtu.be/MvJzVV8UkDEDental scaling training with Bob https://youtube.com/shorts/xqFA6qTKp5M?si=jRAOsuFNmgZ7v1tbZara's blog on cooperative care  https://www.tarkadogtraining.co.uk/blog/blog-post-title-one-rp9b7Other ResourcesTaking the Grrr out of Grooming Dogs: https://www.takingthegrrr.co.uk/Karen Pryor Academy for Animal Training and Behaviour: https://karenpryoracademy.com/ABTC: Animal Behaviour and Training Council: https://abtc.org.uk/

There was just too much good stuff for one episode, and so Dr. Deborah Jones is back to continue the conversation about cooperative care. Tune in for more advice from the woman who literally wrote the book designed to help you and your pet work together to stay happy and healthy. For more information please go to: Your Family Dog

"Cooperative care" is a subject that has come up frequently over the years on "Your Family Dog." now, for the 200th (yes, 200th!) episode, Julie Fudge Smith and Tina Spring sit down with Dr. Deborah Jones, the woman who literally wrote the book on cooperative care, to talk about how to make caring for your dog a partnership, rather than a battle of wills. For more information and show notes: Your Family Dog

This episode kicks off Behavior Month 2023 and we are joined once again by special guest, Wouter Stellaard from Behavior 360 and The Kuzo Group, to discuss this week's theme for Behavior Month 2023: Cooperative Care. Wouter discusses what it means for animals to participate in cooperative care and the element of empowering animals to participate and giving them the voice to say yes or no. Wouter also offers advice on times where behavior is needed in a timely manner. To wrap up the conversation, Wouter talks about the importance of cooperative care in a modern zoo and showing that in action to guests. Behavior bird brainiacs (that will make sense after you listen to this episode) will be excited for Wouter's "Training Tales" about a short-billed corella and a beautiful, boisterous black-breasted buzzard! For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Wouter contact him on his website behavior360.com  Let's talk some training! 2:15 Information about Behavior Month 2023 3:50 Introduction to Wouter Stellaard 11:05 What does Cooperative Care look like in practice?  13:55 Giving animals the ability to say yes or no 18:55 How can we tell if a behavior is truly voluntary? Is there anything that is truly voluntary? 24:55 What is the difference between an operant learning strategy and “distracted” feeding in terms of cooperative care?   31:20 When medical diagnostics/information are needed in a timely manner  36:50 The shift in moving away from the word “husbandry” and to “cooperative care”  40:00 Effectively communicating to the public about the role cooperative care plays in a modern zoo  44:40 How cooperative care can improve welfare  49:10 “Training Tales” 

In this episode, Dr. Sam joins Alicia and Nikki to discuss cooperative care and taking your dog to a certified fear free veterinary clinic. Your dog doesn't have to be stressed at the vet. Through cooperative care and a fear free facility, going to the vet can be as enjoyable as a vet visit can be. For more information about Family Pet Health click here! dogspeak101.com

On this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show we have two interviews for you: Claire Crewe Seeing Eye Dogs Puppy Development Trainer talks to show host Harriet Moffat about cooperative carer and its benefits, and the roll out of the program for puppy carers. This exciting development will teach puppies essential skills to help them be comfortable and confident being handled. We share an interview hosted by Peter Greco with retired Seeing Eye Dogs Instructor Harry Vanderjagt. Harry has been on the show before during his days at Seeing Eye Dogs, so we wanted to share this interview where he discusses the Golden Harness award he received from Dog Guide Handlers Australia (DGHA) in recognition of his contribution to the dog guide industry. If you'd like to find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs head to our website: https://sed.visionaustralia.org/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My mustang Atlas recently injured his eye which required me to put two different medications in it four times a day. I used clicker training to get him to cooperate during this process. I discuss how I did this with him at liberty and what I learned from this experience.

Have a problem when you want to do your dog's nails? Or maybe for you it's some other aspect of grooming or vet care! In this episode Deb and I talk about cooperative care training — what it is and why it matters.

On this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show, we have two interviews from the archive: Seeing Eye Dogs training program manager Kylie Gersh joins us talking about the principles of cooperative care and giving dogs choice in their care. We talk about animal husbandry and how we can use positive training methods and rewards to give better care to our animals with their welfare in mind. Chris Edwards manager of Government Relations, Advocacy, NDIS and Aged Care at Vision Australia joins us to share some tips for flying with your Seeing Eye Dog or dog guide. Chris is a Seeing Eye Dogs handler, and he and his dog Eva are frequent flyers so this team are well-equipped to share some tips for a smooth travelling. We also told you about two news pieces at Seeing Eye Dogs: Registrations are now open for Trek for Vision 2024 in New Zealand. To take part in a fabulous trek to raise funds for Vision Australia Radio and Quality Living programs, join VA's CEO Ron Hooton on the 2024 trek on March 7-11. For more information or to sign up head to the Trek's website. The trek is accessible, so if you are blind or have low vision, you are welcome to attend. If you have a Seeing Eye Dog, please chat with your instructor about your dog's suitability to attend and training needed for the 60km of walking In recognition of NAIDOC Week, 2 - 9 July 2023, Vision Australia would like to extend an invitation to all clients, their families, friends, Vision Australia partners and stakeholders, and community, who identify as Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islanders to submit a special name for consideration to name a Seeing Eye Dogs pups. Submitted names will have a connection to country to recognise all aspects of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture and heritage and will be considered by a panel from Seeing Eye Dogs, including First Nations representatives and announced during NAIDOC week. To submit your special name and a short description, Name a Seeing Eye Dogs pup for NAIDOC Week form or send an email to: SEDClients@visionaustralia.org. Final submissions: close of business Friday 30 June 2023. If you'd like to find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs head to our website: https://sed.visionaustralia.org/See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

A Patreon Questions episode! Questions include what kind of barking is ok barking, how to get on the same page with your partner regarding puppy raising, crate barking in anticipation of agility, and so much more! Sign up for courses and join the membership here: https://cogdogclassroom.mykajabi.com/ Join us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/cogdogradio Music by AlexGrohl from Pixabay

In this episode, I am joined by Peter Giljam, founder and head trainer at Zoospensfull. Peter has spent many years as an animal trainer, influencer, educator and consultant and brings his expertise to this wide-ranging conversation. We talk about the most important things to consider in a training program, cooperative care and the future of positive reinforcement training. We also discuss dealing with burnout and compassion fatigue in the industry.  https://zoospensefull.com/  https://www.facebook.com/zoospensefull/ https://www.instagram.com/zoospensefull/?hl=en 

Join us as we talk about all things cooperative care; from defining what cooperative care is to diving into how we are personally using it in our lives with our dogs, and even ways you can easily start to use it with your own dog(s).  Find out how cooperative care can be used for day to day tasks as well as more substantial procedures in our dogs lives.   Also learn why we think it is so important to give our dogs choices in their care and provide a way for them to say no.  And join us as we seek to continue improving the cooperative care we implement in our own homes and what benefits we feel we have experienced by doing so.   Don't forget to review, subscribe, and share! Follow us on IG: ⁠⁠@sometimestheressideeye | Instagram⁠⁠ Links: Cooperative Care: Seven Steps to Stress-Free Husbandry by Deborah Jones, Ph.D. Cooperative Care: Seven Steps to Stress-Free Husbandry: Jones Ph.D., Deborah: 9780578423135: Amazon.com: Books Cooperative Care facebook group: (3) Cooperative Care with Deb Jones | Facebook Nail files: This is our #1 choice: Beauty Secrets Black Rectangular Cushion Nail File (sallybeauty.com) Alternative: ASP Extra Heavy Black Angle Board Nail File 100/180 (sallybeauty.com) Nail Clippers: Amazon.com: Millers Forge Steel Pet Nail Clipper 743C with Safety Stop Bar Small Medium Dog : Pet Supplies

Join me in the first of my two-part interview with expert animal trainer Laura Monaco Torelli about making veterinary visits and grooming sessions less stressful for your furry friends. Laura and I dive into understanding dog body language, creating positive experiences, and the vital role of communication between pet parents, vets, and groomers.Show Notes:In this episode, I'm thrilled to introduce you to Laura Monaco Torelli, an expert animal trainer, who shares her wisdom on understanding your Doodle's needs and stress signals.We discuss how to help your Doodle enjoy a positive experience at the vet by observing their body language and using positive reinforcement techniques.Laura emphasizes the importance of trust between pet owners, veterinarians, and groomers to ensure successful and stress-free visits.We talk about not rushing through the process and staying mindful of your Doodle's stress levels during grooming or vet visits.Laura shares insights on identifying potential stressors for your Doodle and implementing strategies to address them.We highlight the value of visual illustrations and handouts in educating pet owners about their Doodle's body language and stress signals.Laura and I explore the concept of "get it done" and how to balance the needs and wants of your Doodle during grooming or vet visits.We discuss the importance of collaborating with your Doodle's groomer and vet to create a plan that supports your dog's wellbeing and reduces stress.Lastly, we delve into alternative approaches, such as requesting outdoor exams or video snippets, to minimize stress for both you and your Doodle.Catch part two of our conversation on episode #48.Learn more from Laura at https://www.lauramonacotorelli.com/Do you know your doodle's learning style? Take our free quiz to find out and make training together easier and more fun! Visit https://thedoodlepro.com/learning now!Visit instagram.com/thedoodlepro for behind-the-scenes peeks at the doodles Corinne works with daily!

This week we're talking about how to make owners happy. How do we make a living working on dogs with difficulty with grooming? Now, this is very much for the groomers, but this is also for owners to understand where groomers are coming from and for the trainers and for anybody else because our customer service angle in the grooming industry needs to be tweaked and needs to be changed. My example of a Safety Policy.  "To provide the highest level of care for your pet, we have a safety policy. If at any time your pet gets nervous, anxious, scared, aggressive, or even overly silly, we slow down and help your pet to be comfortable and calm. It's very important to us that the pets in our care are kept safe and stress-free. We use sharp tools and need to prevent injuries. We will work with your pet to help them feel comfortable. This will build a great experience for successful groomings for your pet's lifetime. Your pet may not be groomed to perfection today. We will charge for the time that we spend working with your pet."   Ep183 === [00:00:00] Chrissy: Episode 180 3. This week we're talking about how to make owners happy. How do we make a living working on dogs with difficulty with grooming? Now, this is very much for the groomers, but this is also for owners to understand where groomers are coming from and for the trainers and for anybody else because our customer service angle. [00:00:19] In the grooming industry needs to be tweaked, needs to be changed. This is the Creating Great Grooming Dog Show. I'm Chrissy Neumyer Smith. I'm a master groomer behavior specialist. I'm a certified professional dog trainer, a certified behavior consultant for canines, a certified professional groomer. I am an instructor at Whole Pet Grooming Academy and I own Happy Critters in Nashua, New Hampshire. [00:00:40] And this my friends and colleagues is the show. We're grooming and training Meet. Start off with the common story that I hear from groomers. Okay. Because a lot of groomers reach out to me. My Facebook group and my Facebook page haven't been very active because I think that, um, most of the time people just reach out to me directly. [00:00:58] And that's awesome. That's great guys. If you feel like we're friends, we are. So just go ahead and reach out and I will contact you. But what happens is, this is when I hear a lot is, , he was so bad that by the end he was being really aggressive. What should I do next time? How do I work on a dog like that? [00:01:15] Now my question is, did you complete the groom? And they're like, well, yes. But by the end he was really getting so much worse. But that is because you keep trying to get the grooming finished. Okay. So I wanna talk about how we can help our owners be happy and understand what we're doing while also helping the dog, because there's a customer service angle that needs to be tweaked just a little bit. [00:01:44] We are allowing our customers to think, I want this haircut. I'm buying a haircut. Like it's an object on a shelf. You know, you sold that. Guy a haircut, and that's the haircut I want for my dog. So that customer got one and my dog can't, you know, like as if it's [00:02:00] available for purchase. It's just an object. [00:02:02] Okay? The things that we do are not objects on a shelf. We are selling services. Services are different than an item. Now when we think about it that way, we know as groomers, some dogs are a lot more work than other dogs. Every dog's gonna be a little bit different. Every BK is gonna be a little bit different. [00:02:23] Maybe those owners brush every day and are very, very good about keeping that dog maintained and others are not. We understand when it's coat issues, but we need to take that into behavior issues. We need to take that information and pull it back. To behavior issues too. The dog, that's a lot more effort to groom because the dog is having trouble being groomed, and unfortunately, if we get stuck in the mindset that we have to get this trim done, we need to get this haircut done, we need this dog to look a certain way. [00:02:58] That's what our owners are buying, and that's what we are selling. What happens is the behavior ends up getting ignored. Or just worked over. So in the case of he was so bad by the end, you know, like, what do I do next time? By the end, he was being really aggressive. I mean, he was bad from the beginning, but wow. [00:03:17] By the end, right? That's predictable. He, this dog is literally trying to tell you, I am not comfortable with this. This makes me very, very uncomfortable. And we're saying, uh, sorry dude, your daddy wants a haircut and, okay. I hear you. I've been there. You know, you're like, I, I've gotta get this trim finished. [00:03:37] I didn't suspect that you were gonna act like this, and your coat is in good shape. And that's what I told your owners when you were in our office, and that's what I thought we were gonna sell you. So we need to step back and go, wait a minute, wait a minute. This dog is not handling this process very well, and this is the customer service angle for us to talk to our owners. [00:03:59] . Your dog [00:04:00] is not handling this very well. Your dog is not well prepared for our services. Now, grimmer, I want you to make this distinction. We say that when a coat isn't well prepared for our services, right? The dog that's totally, totally matted, and they're like, we just want a bath and a little bit of trimming. [00:04:18] Can we come back in an hour? And we're like, oh, I'm very, very sorry. That cannot happen because the coat, what's going on with your dog's coat is not gonna allow us to do this in an hour. Even if maybe another dog could have a quick bath and brush out and dry in an hour, your dog cannot because your dog's coat condition. [00:04:37] We need to do that with behavior. Groomers we're used to saying no. We're used to telling people that they can't get what they wanted today and how to get them on the right track. So if we think about it that way, now we can say your dog's behavior, he is not ready for this. If your dog panics when the dryer is on, your dog cannot be fluff dried. [00:04:59] Yet. Yet there is training we can do, and that's why we need to talk about this. As an industry, we need to talk about this, but also we need to talk about this with our owners. I would like very much for your dog to go home in a beautiful trim, but your dog's not well prepared for our services today. Your dog doesn't understand what's happening. [00:05:21] Your dog finds this difficult. Your dog finds this scary. Your dog finds everything we're doing, very threatening, and I think that a lot of the time we think aggression. A dog who's being very forward, very direct with us and hard eye and air snaps and stuff. , we think of that as a dog who's very, very brave. [00:05:39] But that's a dog who, while they might be being brave, is being brave because they feel they're being threatened, they are uncomfortable with what is happening. So at its core, it is still fear. We need to teach these dogs to trust us and to feel comfortable so that we can continue to work with them throughout their whole life. [00:05:58] So if we talk to our owners saying, [00:06:00] your dog is finding this really difficult, have you done anything at home to prepare him? , have you worked on anything? Let's talk about what's happening at home, or how are things going at home? And I'm gonna say here, Non-G groomers don't understand what groomers do. [00:06:14] Everybody in the world thinks they know what groomers do, but if you're not a groomer, probably have some gaps in your knowledge, even if you have groomed your own dogs for years, all five dogs in your lifetime, you have gaps in your knowledge. But the same is true for dog trainers. Non dog trainers have no idea what dog trainers do. [00:06:33] So when we meet in the middle, we have to think about how we can help this dog. Be comfortable with the things that are going to have to happen. And I'll tell you, like I said, non trainers, like every Tom, Dick and Harry, who's taught a dog to sit, thinks they're a dog trainer. And I'm sorry you're not . [00:06:53] You're not. , but the thing is, is that trainers, if they don't know what a dog needs to know how to do, They might be preparing them for things that really don't apply to the grooming setting. And so groomers get frustrated with trainers. Now trainers, trainers are thinking, well, if the groomer's just gonna force this dog through the whole grooming, Then this dog is going to get worse because yes, that's often what happens. [00:07:20] It is. But they don't know that groomers are trying to get a trim done because groomers feel pressured to sell haircuts and pretty looking dog grooming. And I need groomers to think about that for a minute. Like, okay, wait a minute. This dog is literally telling me, please stop back off. I'm not comfortable with this. [00:07:41] This makes me really, really scared. , I'm gonna have to keep air snapping or twirling or screaming or whatever it is they're doing, and it's going to accelerate. We should not be surprised when by the end that dog is much, much worse. That's not a surprise. That is. Exactly what we should be expecting [00:08:00] and to think that this dog is going to be worse than next time. [00:08:04] Okay? Pushing dogs past what they can handle does not help them be better the next time. We have to think not just about today's grooming, but we have to think about next time. Now, the other part about that is what should I do next time and , when groomers ask me that, what do I do next time? [00:08:23] What I tell them is we have to go back. We have to circle back to the beginning. We have to help this dog feel calm, comfortable, and cooperative. We're gonna have to set up some sessions that do not focus in on how beautiful this trim is, and we need to talk to our owners about it. I would love for him to look perfect, but frankly, if he's trying to bite at me, I cannot get his face beautiful. [00:08:49] We need to teach him to trust us and to let us put our tools on him. Owners do not understand the safety part. Think about that for a minute. I think a lot of non groomers do not understand the safety part. I've had people say, how could a dog get nicked during grooming? I'm like, you work with dogs for a living? [00:09:09] Have you ever tried putting something sharp? Next to an ear or a toe while they're wiggling around, of course accidents happen. We're using sharp things, and they all say, why would you use something sharp? Wow, guys, if you're not a groomer, let me, let me tell you right now, if it's not sharp, it won't cut hair. [00:09:33] It doesn't trim nails, right? I mean, a grinder, grinds nails, but a nail trimmer needs to be sharp. Scissors need to be sharp. Clippers are sharp. Pretty much everything we put on your dog could injure your dog. If your dog bites down hard on a comb, that metal comb is gonna do some damage bites down hard on a brush. [00:09:50] Yep. They can rip their tongue open. There are a lot of ways that a dog who is not handling this well. Can hurt themselves. And as groomers, we need to [00:10:00] remember that there's a safety portion to this for us to tell owners, I want your dog to get a beautiful trim. Oh, I love beautiful trims, but your dog is not well prepared for that. [00:10:12] And we need to help them prepare for that. We need to help them trust us and use our tools, and use our tools in the way that will help them have a beautiful trim, if that's what that dog needs. But even the, the regular bath and brush out. A lot of our dogs, if you think about like the labs, okay, as an example, labs don't get a whole lot of trimming, but they get a lot of de shedding and so much of that is done with our high velocity dryer, which is noisy. [00:10:40] A lot of dogs have some issues with the high velocity dryer. There's a learning curve before they feel comfortable with letting us de shed them with a big dryer. So there are lots of things that dogs need better preparing. To be able to do so if we get away from this idea that we're selling a haircut. [00:10:58] If you think you're selling a haircut, please send one to me. I would like to have two border collies groomed. You can ship that to Nashua and New Hampshire. I will give you my information. If you can ship it , we'll talk that's the difference between a service and an item, and we need to help our owners understand that. [00:11:18] This isn't a catalog sale where they can like point and say, that's the haircut I want and I want this style head and this style tail on this dog. No matter what. This is exactly what I'm going to get. We as groomers know that it's more complicated than that, but people who are not groomers do not know. [00:11:37] We need to really spell it out. If you're enjoying this show, please remember to follow or subscribe, tell all your grooming friends and , reach out and let me know. I would love to get some reviews. Hey, if you don't ask, they won't do it. I would love some reviews. Make 'em five stars, if you will. Thank you. [00:11:54] So how do we talk to our owners , about this issue? So really I [00:12:00] want you to think about every owner is gonna be a little bit different, and when we talk to an owner, that's our opportunity to say, you know, Hey, before we book anything, I wanna talk to you about safety. About safety. When we explain that this is about safety, this is about keeping their dogs safe. [00:12:20] This is about treating their dog gently, keeping their dog safe, helping their dog learn to be good for their 15 years of grooming. And at any age, a dog can learn to be better for it. In fact, , I'm gonna be so bold here as to say, I know it's very, very bold, but in my opinion and in my experience, this is true over and over and over again, a healthy dog can be taught to be a safe dog. [00:12:44] Maybe they will never enjoy grooming and they will never like grooming. I'm, I mean, my dentist is wonderful, but I don't like to go, you know, my doctor's wonderful. I don't like doctor's appointments. If you think about dog grooming, is this like, oh man, I have to, but we can teach them to be safe. [00:13:02] We can teach them to trust us. We can teach them to be safe with all of our tools, and that will last a lifetime. Teaching a dog to trust us and that this is safe will last their lifetime. Later on, when they start having hip problems and shoulder problems, or , arthritis in their toes, they do not go back to trying to bite us. [00:13:24] If we do the homework now, if we see the problem we have today, today, and address it now, not at the end of a screaming, flailing two hour groom. . It's not okay. It's not okay. And I'm not saying that to be mean. I've been there, I have done that. I have forced dogs through a trim because I just didn't know. [00:13:48] I didn't know. But here's the thing, if we can teach them to be good, doesn't it make a lot of sense to spend the time teaching them to be good, to calm them down, [00:14:00] calm, comfortable, cooperative, Izzy, calm. Then how can I return him to calm before I move on? , does he seem uncomfortable? Okay. Is it uncomfortable  [00:14:09] with the tool? Is it uncomfortable with the noise? , is he physically uncomfortable? Is he having trouble standing? , does he have, problems with his teeth? , are my tools causing discomfort because of an injury that this dog has or a health problem that this dog has? How can I help this dog be more comfortable? [00:14:27] When faced with a behavior problem or something that we don't want, I want you to think, can I make this dog calmer? Can I help this dog be comfortable? And is this dog being cooperative? And cooperative takes two. It's not calm, comfortable, and obedient. It's calm, comfortable, and cooperative. Will this dog work with me and can I work with this dog and helping them have a better experience? [00:14:54] And if that means. I do some modified trims that maybe don't look beautiful. That's okay. Everybody take a deep breath. What? But my trims need to be gorgeous. Somebody's gonna call, someone's gonna get upset, or their neighbors are gonna see the dog. Or a dog's gonna leave my shop and he is gonna be a little bit lopsided. [00:15:12] Or take a deep breath. Take a deep breath. That dog isn't well prepared for our services. That dog is very likely to get hurt, behavior problems are when dogs get hurt. People get hurt, and equipment gets broken. You lose money forcing trims on behavior problems. You will lose money. Maybe you haven't yet, but you will. [00:15:35] Okay? The day after an injury is the day you're gonna be like, why did I push that dog through that trim? It was never ever worth it. It was never worth it. if you have to bring a customer's dog to the vet, all right, that could be a couple hundred dollars. Now I have business insurance, but I believe my deductible is 500. [00:15:59] So out of [00:16:00] pocket I could be paying a lot more than that. Groom was out of pocket paying vet bills with an owner who is furious. Okay, let's also talk about that. If owners don't know that there's a safety portion to this, they will be incredibly upset that their dog got hurt, especially oh, especially if you've been giving them a handling fee. [00:16:25] And we're gonna talk about that for a minute cuz I came up in a recent discussion with one of my students. Handling fees are interesting. Handling fee implies that they can just pay more money and have it done. Yeah, think about that. Well, I paid the handling fee. I pay her $5 extra and she nipped my dog. [00:16:46] Ooh, , but I want you to think about from an owner's point of view, they think it's an upsell because he's more work. They do not understand that it's because he is dangerous, because someone could get hurt because their dog could get hurt or a groomer could get hurt. They do not know. [00:17:04] They will be furious. And they think that they can just buy the service, an upsell, right? Like it's a box on a shelf and we need to make it much more clear. There are additional fees for handling dogs with behavior issues because they take a lot more time. Okay. If you, if you label it a handling fee, there are plenty of people, and we all know them who already have the check written out. [00:17:32] I, I mean, who even uses checks anymore except for the people who wanna make sure that they don't have to pay any more. , in case you guys didn't know, that's a definite thing where it's like, oh wait, but if I bring my card, Then I can't say, oh, I already wrote out the check. I mean, it's, it's this much plus the $10 handling fee, right? [00:17:51] Sorry, I already wrote out my check. . They're just gonna think it's a purchase. They will not understand that the training problem is real, [00:18:00] that their dog is having trouble, their dog could get hurt, or that there's a solution set. So basically what happens is you end up with a dog that is bad like this and has trouble with this. [00:18:12] For their entire life. Owner's not working on it. Don't care. Mm-hmm. And then what happens? Now, let's play this out too. We've all heard it. Then what happens? You know, he's just getting so bad that I can't do it anymore. I think it's time to bring him to the vet for sedation grooming. . Or bring him to a vet groomer. [00:18:32] guys, I wanna tell you, there is no veterinarian on the planet who is going to sedate that dog as if for surgery every four to six weeks for their regular grooming. That behavior problem needs to be worked on. That's not the way it works. It's gonna go, oh, well, we have this magical way of doing it. [00:18:51] Okay? This problem needs to be worked on. So if we talk to our owners and say, this is a problem that needs to be worked on, and. Forcing your dog through is not gonna solve it. Putting beautiful haircuts on dogs who are thrashing and screaming and biting and air snapping is never going to solve the behavior issue. [00:19:15] Take that in. That's one of the very few, always and nevers. Okay. Have you ever seen a dog who decided at the end, oh, well that was bad and everything's gonna be fine. Okay. And I know, I know I sound a little cheeky when I say it that way, but think about it. How often do we have a dog who looks like he's just like, hello? [00:19:37] Oh, well that's bad. Thanks. , for pushing me through it, you know, while I screamed and sprayed my anal glands and alligator rolled and I'll be great next time. It never happens. It doesn't happen that way. , if you had an owner who every time they touched their dog's face, the dog tried to bite at them and they did it a lot and they kept doing it all the time, what would [00:20:00] we tell them? [00:20:01] What would we tell them? We tell them, stop teasing your dog. You need to do some training. He needs to be comfortable with you touching his face. Yet when he goes to the groomer, they're expecting us to magically be able to take care of that, right? A lot of these dogs have trouble outside of grooming. [00:20:18] There are times when we need to talk to trainers, so send your trainer friends to this podcast. Absolutely. Send your owners to this podcast, everything I say on this podcast. Is for owners, for trainers, for other pet professionals. I'm trying to be, , open-minded about everybody's opinions, ? But I'll tell you what, as somebody who works with a lot of behavior cases and people come to me from their behavior cases, here's another fact that I think a lot of groomers don't think about. [00:20:45] A lot of owners really feel lied to if you never told them their dog had problems until that day when you're like, we just can't get it done anymore. Tell them. A lot of them are like, wait, has this been going on all along? Oh yeah, he's always been bad for this, but now we can't get it done anymore. And they're like, what? [00:21:04] What happened? Why didn't you ever tell me? Why didn't you ever tell me? And it's something I hear a lot of, we need to feel more comfortable talking to owners about. You know, your dog's not having a good time. Your dog is finding this frightening. Your dog is finding this uncomfortable. We need to get down to the bottom of this and help teach him to be good for grooming. [00:21:26] And, I know I'm wrapping this up now, it's been in my 20 minutes, but, , if you go to creating great grooming dogs.com. , I have the safety policy written out. You can use that if you'd like. You can change it up. It's not a contract, but it is a way to explain to owners that behavior problems are safety problems and that this is how I do business. [00:21:47] This is how I handle behavior problems when they come up, and how you will be charged because in fairness, You know whether the trim gets finished or not, I will be paid for my time. We're not here to lose money. Working on dogs with behavior [00:22:00] problems, you need to feel more comfortable with saying, I charge for my time, and to bring it up before we see a problem. [00:22:07] Bring it up before the problem comes up. Or if you've had a dog for a long time that has always had problems, that's harder. But you can say, you know what? I just learned something new and I really wanna try this with your dog because he's not getting better. Things we've tried already have not helped this dog yet better, and we need to help him get better because, um, I saw a video of a dog who died during a nail trim,  [00:22:29] Go ahead and cite that video. Have you guys all seen the video? . There's a video online of a dog dying during a nail trim. , because he was muzzled and they thought he was just flailing around because of his feet and he choked out. Things happen. Things happen so we can talk to our owners and say, this is the way I do business. [00:22:48] This is what I'm gonna do. I am not going to force your dog through that trim. We can say no, just like we don't put haircuts over mats. We need to stop putting grooming over behavior problems because we can fix behavior problems. We sure can. So if you enjoyed the show, please remember, subscribe, follow. [00:23:08] If you want more information, you can find more information about me at creating great grooming dogs.com. , I'm also teaching the Master Groomer Behavior Specialist Program at Whole Pet Grooming Academy. That's whole pet nh.com. And if you wanna know more about Master Groomer Behavior Specialists, master groomer behavior specialist.com and come find me if you are interested in learning more about my classes.  

This week we're talking about science-based training. What does that mean? Why is there a controversy and what do you need to know? You'll get my take on that this week. CreatingGreatGroomingDogs.com Ep182 What Does Science Based Dog Training Mean  === [00:00:00] Chrissy: . Episode 180 2 of the show this week we're talking about science-based training. What does that mean? Why is there a controversy and what do you need to know? [00:00:09] You'll get my take on that this week. This is the Creating Great Grooming Dog Show. I'm Chrissy Neumyer Smith. I'm a certified professional groomer, a certified behavior consultant for Canines, a certified professional dog trainer, the owner of Happy Critters in Nashua, New Hampshire, and an instructor at Whole Pet Grooming Academy. And this, my friends and colleagues, is the show we're grooming and training meet. [00:00:31] Science-based dog training. So there's a big debate out there because there are two warring factions in the dog training world. And each of them thinks that they're doing science-based dog training. And I'm gonna tell you, my humble opinion is that they are both correct. They both are. [00:00:50] But it has become this marketing tool. So I want you to thoroughly understand it. I want you to understand why it's a term that's being used and what it really means. I will say that I am definitely further on one side of that debate. If you are kind of new to the show, you might not know, but there are, , balanced trainers, trainers who feel that rewards and punishments as long as it, we get the job done and safely, rewards and punishments are all fair game. [00:01:20] And then there are the positive reinforcement trainers who think that punishments should be avoided. I'm far more leaning toward that side. But that doesn't mean that I'm not open-minded. , in fact, I am what's called a crossover trainer, which means that I started off with a lot of punishment based kind of training, and then over time started incorporating more positive reinforcement type training. [00:01:44] So I've done both, and I can tell you that. There are plenty of wonderful caring dog trainers out there working in both angles. All right, so first of all, this is a safe space. My show is always gonna be a safe space. I'm not here to judge anybody, [00:02:00] but I wanna present you with some information. Now, when I say that I am far more leaning toward positive reinforcement, , a lot of the positive reinforcement camp, talks a lot about science-based dog training. [00:02:13] And they do use a lot of science, but so does the balance trainer camp also. So the science part comes in because the purpose of us doing our training is to try to figure out, why the dog is having a problem. The why. Okay. This is where we break away from. , he does something and I just leash. Correct. [00:02:38] A good trainer is not doing that. They don't just go. I don't know. He did something. So I'm just gonna do a leash correction and a stern no. , the science-based part is about separating ourselves from the emotions of punishments and rewards, separating ourselves from the emotions of all of that, and instead thinking about what do we see with this dog? [00:03:00] Why is this dog behaving this way? Why is this happening? What can we do to help this dog be better? Now, that's a different point of view than what many of us were taught long ago when I first started. Back in the eighties, it was choke collars and prong collars. I was lucky enough to be around a bunch of adults cuz I was 14, um, to be around a bunch of adults who were super into continuing ed. [00:03:27] So even though we were using a lot of those things, there was always this open-mindedness about like, woo, how did they do that? Wow, that's neat. How will that work? Can we try that too? But it's not just about taking every idea that comes down the pike, okay? There are some crazy ideas out there. [00:03:44] There's some really outdated stuff. , but that doesn't mean that any one group of dog trainers has cornered the market on science-based dog training, okay? It's really important for us all to understand that if [00:04:00] someone does something that's a punish, And they do it once and the dog never does that again. [00:04:06] They have used science-based dog training. It might not be the way I would have done it, or maybe not the way that you would have done it, but it is scientifically sound. , so we need to break away from the idea that one is right and one is wrong. That's really important. As a crossover trainer, I think it's really important and I'd like to see more crossover groomers. [00:04:31] Let's make that a term. I'm a crossover groomer because many of us as groomers, and I think if you're not a groomer, you might not know this. Many of us as groomers, we're always taught. You just cannot let him take charge. Things like that, that really don't speak to what the issue is. We need to help these dogs feel more comfortable, calm, comfortable, and cooperative. [00:04:53] You've heard it many, many times here, so when we talk. Science-based dog training. There are a couple of different lenses we can use now. One of those, and one that I use a lot is, , least intrusive, minimally aversive, dog training circles. That's something that we often sign off on as part of our codes of conduct for the Association of Professional Dog Trainers, the certification council. [00:05:20] Professional dog trainers in the International Association of Animal Behavior Consultants. So those three big groups will often ask us like, do you use least intrusive minimally aversive? Are you following the humane hierarchy? Which is, I know it sounds super complicated, but what it is, is what it is, is. [00:05:42] The purpose of these is to have a roadmap when faced with a behavior that we would like to change or that we do not want. We first have to think about, , the dog's comfort. We have to think about why the dog is doing it, and this is a [00:06:00] roadmap for us to follow so that we're doing the most gentle version. [00:06:05] Now, why is gentle important? So let's say we have a dog on the grooming. And we're grooming along and we get up near his ear and he turns around and growls. And we assume, what if we assume that this dog just means to harm us, or he's being stubborn, that's a story that we tell ourselves, stubborn, that he's spoiled. [00:06:30] That's another air quote. Spoiled. , what if we start making assumptions that this dog is just trying to. Take charge doesn't respect us when actually this dog has an injury. Well, I think I would know if a dog was sore. Not really. So there are times where we are responding to a dog's behavior, assuming making some assumptions about their motivation. [00:06:57] And to break away from that is where we start talking about science-based dog training to break away from our assumptions to back. Boo boo boo. Back up the bus and think about, okay, why might that dog be responding that way? Now, let's say you're brushing an ear and you're like, I don't know. His ear looked fine, but maybe he has a neck problem. [00:07:20] Maybe you could do some real damage by continuing. Maybe we need to stop, pause. Think it through and listen, when this dog is saying, I'm uncomfortable with that, especially if it's a dog who normally is comfortable with that, and we see that a lot. So humane hierarchy starts off with when we're faced with a behavior problem that we are concerned about, that we don't want to have happen again. [00:07:48] Our first thought should be, is there a medical reason, a physical reason, like what is going on in this dog's? So that's a really big one that I think most of us [00:08:00] don't do. I say US cuz I've been there. I mean I do it now, but, but many of us don't do that first and we have to think about the medical reason. [00:08:10] No, that does not mean, and I know there's someone out there going, but I'm like, that does not mean that a dog who's sore is allowed to bite people. Okay. That's not the purpose here. That's not what I'm saying. What I'm saying is, is that we need to figure out the reason so that we can fix the cause so that we can get in there and really find out what is going on. [00:08:34] Frankly, if a dog is sore, I want to be gentle with. I want to help them feel more comfortable. And a dog who's sore, while they shouldn't turn around and try to bite us, I can understand why they might have that knee jerk reaction if something suddenly hurts or something twists. You know, like there are times where a dog's just like ow it looks like a bite. It looks like an air snap, and we need to be aware of that. We also need to help dogs feel comfortable with us, even if something does hurt. Okay? It's not okay for your dog to just go after you because things hurt. It's important for them to trust us to know that if I signal that something's uncomfortable, this human listens and will try to find out what's wrong. [00:09:21] That's really, I. And, it's one of the first parts of the humane hierarchy, just looking at what is the problem and is the right physical reason. A lot of the dogs that we groom have discomfort. They are uncomfortable. They have hip problems, they have tooth problems, they have ear problems, they have skin conditions. [00:09:42] They have, , toenails that are super huge and long and it's been, putting pressure on their feet and on their legs. They're all sorts of reasons why a dog could be sore. I'm not saying that that's the only cause for behavior problems that would, that would not be true, but we need [00:10:00] to rule those out and we need to really think. [00:10:02] And along with physical issues like medical issues, we also need to think about what kind of dog is this? Are we expecting a terrier to just kick back and relax or maybe hide if he's scared? Terriers aren't likely to get scared. We've been breeding them to just jump into fight mode, the way to keep a terrier calm is to not let them get into fight mode. [00:10:25] So this is part of us taking a little bit more of a. Pausing and thinking about why is this dog behaving this way? Why? , the things about this dog's body is this dog an adolescent, and we're expecting it to act like an adult, which is common, all right? That happens a lot. We go through the puppy phase and they're doing really, really well as a puppy, and then they hit seven or eight months old and we're like, Hey, why are you acting like this? [00:10:52] But it's seven or eight months old. They have less patience than they did when they were a puppy. They're still little. They still need lots and lots of patience, lots of little break. And we expect them to act like adults. So we're in conflict with them, and it's something that we could prevented if we're like, Hmm, okay, that's a physical reason. [00:11:13] Right? He's just darn young. He's not an adult yet, not gonna be able to act like an adult. , 14 year old Chrissy was not the same as this Chrissy, just think about your own self, like, oh yeah. Teenagers are impulsive, usually frustra. and our adolescent dogs are too. So sometimes we need to look at the dog's age, the dogs breed. [00:11:33] There are so many things to consider. That's part of scientific dog training. The science of dog training. It's not about letting go of all of our emotions. It's about backing up and really taking a closer look. Why is this dog behaving this way and what can we do about it? I want you to think about that one first. [00:11:57] That's the first one. And on the humane hierarchy, [00:12:00] it is least intrusive minimally aversive, it's a very dog friendly way to approach a behavior problem. Why is he being like this? And to step back from, from some of our stories, you know, well, he's just bossy. , that's a weird story that I think we've all told ourselves at some. [00:12:17] Very rarely do I find a dog who's bossy. So I want you to think about the, the physical health of the dog, the physical needs of the dog, other things that could be happening. And this dog's breed and this dog's age, , is this a dog who's always been good for grooming, but now he's nine and today's the day he doesn't wanna stand up. [00:12:36] Maybe this is the first time that he's starting to have some trouble with his hip. These are things that we need to think about, and that's part of science-based dog training. To look at the big picture. Let's get away from just responding with punishments or reinforcements. We can't just throw a cookie at everything either anymore than we can just leash correct and say no. [00:12:58] It's more about a step back, take a beat and think about why the dog might be doing this, because then we can solve the problem or work on the problem. Not every problem can be solved. If a dog is really sore. Sometimes that's just gonna be the way it is. But for us to step back and think about why is this dog behaving this way and let go of some of our emotions about it, let go of some of our ideas. [00:13:25] If you are enjoying this show, please remember to tell everybody, you know, subscribe or follow, and I wanna remind you that it is available as a podcast and it is also available on YouTube. [00:13:37] You can watch them as videos and you can watch or listen at creating great grooming dogs.com. [00:13:44] So as we talk about science-based dog training and separating yourself from some of the knee jerk reactions that we have, , one of the things I wanna point out also is that there's a process and not everyone agrees with that process. Okay? [00:14:00] But I'm gonna present the process that I use. All right, so full disclosure, I'm a positive reinforcement trainer and I'm gonna follow least intrusive minimally aversive, and I'm gonna follow the humane hierarchy because that's what I am firmly believing in. [00:14:16] But, those are still hotly debated, even amongst trainers who use those because these steps can be kind of gray areas. But I wanna dress here. When we are talking about dog grooming, I do dog training. I do lots of dog training, but the grooming process is a different angle of dog training.  [00:14:36] If I were working on dogs, , barking at the front window, I might use a wider variety of tools than I do on the grooming table. Dogs, , during grooming have difficulty with grooming because they find it unpleasant, uncomfortable, and or scary. And I'm gonna drill that into your head. Dogs have trouble with dog grooming because they find it unpleasant, uncomfortable, and or scary. [00:15:03] So what does that mean for us? It means that if we want a dog to be better for groom. We are not likely to get good results if we incorporate more unpleasant, uncomfortable, and scary to try to fix a dog who is finding it unpleasant, uncomfortable, and scary. , that, that, that kind of makes us all feel icky the first time we hear it, doesn't it like, oh, oh, wait a minute. [00:15:31] Am I adding more unpleasantness? No. Unpleasant. As an example of unpleasant. Even the dog who's super, super. Is finding it unpleasant that they can't just go off and play. That's why they're wiggly. That's why they're a jumbled up, wiggly, goofball mess, and they're, we're having trouble holding them still and trying, having trouble getting the grooming done safely because they're super, super silly. [00:15:53] That dog is finding it unpleasant because they can't just go off and play. That's a dog with a problem being [00:16:00] impulsive and silly and active and maybe overwhelmed with the distraction level. But it's still unpleasant and a lot of dogs find grooming uncomfortable, and then a lot of dogs find it scary, and it could be a combination of all of three of those things. [00:16:17] Now let's talk for a moment about punishment and reinforcement. So punishments are things that decrease or end behavior, decrease or end. A punishment isn't necessarily a bad thing. We get, we get a feeling of icky, right? We're like, Ooh, but a punishment works because the dog thinks it's unpleasant, uncomfortable, or scary, and does not want to have that thing happen again. [00:16:47] They choose to like, Ooh, don't want that to happen again. I don't want that outcome again, so maybe I won't do that thing. Okay. They're unpleasant, uncomfortable, and or scary. That does not mean they're mean. All right. And I really wanna make that clear in the grooming setting. I'm calling this this line here because, We can't teach dogs to calm, comfortable, and cooperative on the grooming table and start thinking the grooming table is safe. [00:17:16] If we keep incorporating more and more unpleasant, uncomfortable, and or scary on top of a situation that's unpleasant, uncomfortable, and or scary, do you see how it starts to build up? And it just doesn't make sense in this particular realm? Okay, not a judgment call about those of you who are using punishment, you know, like your dog. [00:17:38] Does something at home. You know what? We can talk about that another time. But this is all about grooming. This is about the grooming process. Cooperative care. Can I touch your foot? Even if you're injured, cooperative care, I need this dog to trust that they're safe with me. Okay, so reinforcement is when we have a behavior that [00:18:00] we want to maintain or increase. [00:18:03] Maintain, or increase is reinforcement. These terms get used all the time in weird ways. Okay, so this is, this is science-based dog training. Reinforcement is when the behavior maintains or increases, not necessarily that you did something really nice. Okay? Some of the things that we do as groomers, some of the things that we do when we're trying to get a dog to knock it off, and we're holding that foot more and we're telling him no, and that dog is wiggling more and wiggling more. [00:18:33] Actually, what did it do? Maintained or increased the very behavior we wanted to stop right step back from our emotions and let's look at the result. And when we're doing reinforcement or punishment, we need to think about what is my theory about what's going on and what's my best guest about how this dog is going to respond to what I do next? [00:19:01] Okay, now you might have heard a positive reinforcement, negative reinforcement. Positive punishment. Negative punishment. So let's dig into that. Positive and negative. Okay. Again, this is a spot where we step back from our emotions. It does not mean lovey dovey or mean. Positive means something added. [00:19:23] Negative means something subtracted. So if I'm using positive reinforcement, it means I saw a behavior. That I want to maintain or increase and I'm going to add something. So when we add something to maintain or increase the behavior, it's probably something pleasant, maybe tasty, something the dog will like. [00:19:44] That would be positive reinforcement based training, if and only if actually maintains or increases the behavior. That's the part that I think a lot of us have trouble. Lot of trainers have trouble with that too when we're [00:20:00] first wrapping our heads around this whole idea. So let me give you an example. [00:20:05] If I see you do something, like, let's say right now you're listening to this podcast and maybe I saw you just write down a couple of notes and I'm thinking, wow, that's great. I want them to do that some more. If I hand you a piece of licorice, did I just, I did positive cause I handed you something. Was that positive reinforcement because you like licorice and will work for licorice? [00:20:30] Or did I just hand you something that you thought was yucky? Like, Ew, why would she hand me licorice? Are you likely to do the thing again or not? Could I have accidentally used positive punishment? Here's some licorice. I'm not gonna do that again. She's handed me this gunk. Ooh. Um. Licorice is often my example because I think it's a love-hate thing. [00:20:54] People either love licorice or hate licorice, and there's not much in between. So think about our best idea of what a dog likes and dislikes, why a dog does the things they do, and that's where science-based training comes in. . There are lots of other versions of science-based dog training. There's a lot more to it, right? [00:21:15] Not everything is, punishments and reinforcements. That's just opera conditioning. That's not even getting into classical conditioning. So there are a lot of things that I think many, many trainers can agree on, and one of those things is, why is the dog doing it? Let's take a look at why. Let's see if we can teach 'em to do something. [00:21:35] Even if they use methods that are very different than mine. The fact is, , if we all look at the same dog doing the same behavior, we will all come up with slightly different variations of what we think we should do. And some of them will work well, some of them might not, but it doesn't mean that anybody is right or wrong. [00:21:56] We'll just have to see what happens. . But I think. [00:22:00] Trying to get away from the emotion and really take a look and see why a dog is doing so. Why, , applied behavior analysis. The functional behavior assessment is all about finding those chains. What happens before the behavior, what the behavior is and what happens after. [00:22:17] Okay. That's a functional behavior assessment. I know now I'm getting a little bit techy, little bit too techy. Chrissy, back it off. But those are two. Find out why a dog is behaving that way. So if we look at something like least intrusive, minimally avers, The humane hierarchy and our first thought and the humane hierarchy is not ad treats. [00:22:39] It's not Give them a stern. No. The first thought following the humane hierarchy is, is there something going on with this dog and in grooming? I think that's the first thing we should talk about. Is there a physical reason? Dog grooming is different than the dog who's barking at the window or the dog who pulls on. [00:23:00] Dog grooming is we are up there up against their body, touching them all over doing things that maybe they have a history of being frightened of. It's really important in dog grooming for us to first think, is there a physical problem? If you wanna know more about how to work with me, you can find out more at creating great grooming dogs.com. [00:23:23] I do work for the whole Pet Grooming Academy. That's whole pet nh.com, where I teach the Master Groomer Behavior Specialist Diploma Program. You can also, if you're interested in that program, master groomer, behavior specialist.com.

How do you start to work on consent from your dog for cooperative care? Dr Natalie Rogers starts explaining HOW to start and trouble shooting tips. If you haven't listed to episode 95, on what consent is and why its important, you may want to listen to that first.  Cooperative care in action - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0nfwmkUf-0 https://k9concepts.com.au/ www.facebook.com/groups/puptalk/ 

Who does the teaching? That's an interesting question, isn't it? So if we have a dog that has trouble with grooming, that has some difficulty, is showing some behavior that we do not want, is it the groomer who does the training? Is it a trainer, a behavior consultant? Is it an owner? Let's talk about all of our options this week. The full transcript! [00:00:00] Chrissy: Episode 180 1. Who does the teaching? That's an interesting question, isn't it? So if we have a dog that has trouble with grooming, that has some difficulty, is showing some behavior that we do not want, is it the groomer who does the training? Is it a trainer, a behavior consultant? Is it an owner? Let's talk about all of our options this week. [00:00:20] You're listening to the Creating Great Grooming Dog Show. I'm Chrissy Newmeyer Smith. I'm a master groomer behavior specialist. I'm a certified professional groomer, a certified behavior consultant for canines, a certified professional dog trainer and instructor at Whole Pet Grooming Academy, and the owner of Happy Critters in Nashua, New Hampshire. [00:00:37] And this my friends and colleagues, is the show where grooming and training. . So let's get into this a little bit today because I think that, , we all start wondering, well, where will this dog learn a new skill if it comes down to training? And I know some of you are kind of new to that idea that we can teach the dogs to be good for it. [00:00:56] And I hear you. , it was not always what I thought either, but we can, we can teach them to be good for it. So who does? , so my quick answer is that I think it needs to be collaborative. I think that it's more than just one person who does that . I think that that's something that we need to do as a group. [00:01:13] And what I mean by that is there is some stuff that the Grimmer is gonna need to do differently. , there's stuff that the owners should be sent home with also, and we often will have to work with a trainer or with somebody else in that dog's life also. Now, the reason. Let's get into just a little bit about why, , I hear groomers say things like, oh, but owners will just make it worse if they go home, they go home with the owner and the owner's gonna make it worse. [00:01:42] And let me explain what's going on there because I hear you, I hear what you're saying, and I know that owners can definitely make it worse. But what a lot of non trainers don't realize is that dog training is all about talking to owners. Dog training's all about teaching people [00:02:00] and it's really a unique skillset. [00:02:02] , it takes a long time to learn how to effectively teach people. And so what do you need to be able to teach people, ? You need to have them understand how to do something that's important. And it may seem really obvious, but think about how many of our owners have trouble brush. Even if they have the right tool, have trouble brushing, even if they have the right tool, and they have been shown a few times, they're still having trouble just brushing, which you would think, but you brush your own hair. [00:02:32] How could that be hard? But it is. Okay. So our owners need to understand how to do a thing, and that's where dog trainers are very good at helping owners understand. Here's another part for owners owners need to understand why. Why does he need to know how to do this? [00:02:52] Why is this gonna make a difference for this dog? Why is it gonna make a difference for them? Why, why are we even spending the time on it? Because if they don't understand why, then they might be stressing their dog out at home trying to just touch 'em with stuff. The classic example is the person who's been massaging his feet. [00:03:13] Oh, I just know the, the trainer said we should touch his feet a lot. , and actually non groomers don't really understand the purpose of foot touching, which is why we get a lot of dogs who have a lot of behavior problems, even though people have been touching their feet. Because it is not enough. , it's not extensive enough. [00:03:33] It does not translate to nail trimming directly. So it's not a bad. , but it's just sort of like the, the very bare minimum . So they need to understand why. They need to know why. Why are we doing a thing? What are we working toward, so we have the how, how are we gonna do it? The why are we doing it? [00:03:52] What are we working toward? Like what does the finished product look like? And that's part of goal setting,[00:04:00] ? What does the finished product look like? What do I want your dog to be able to. during the next grooming appointment. Is it, maybe it's standing still on a table, maybe it's being brushed. , maybe it's, touching a tail. [00:04:16] What is it that we actually want this to look like when we see this dog next that gives an owner the, the idea of like, what would they need to teach now? The other part that we can talk to our owners. Is the three Cs. You guys have heard this over and over and over again, but we need our owners or anybody else who's gonna work with that dog to know that the goal is for the dog to do all of this stuff, whatever stuff and things we choose to teach and be calm, comfortable, and cooperative. [00:04:50] We are not gonna fight with them to get it done. We're not gonna hold them down and then rub 'em all over with a , electric toothbrush and think that that's gonna help 'em be good for clipper work. . And I say that and it sounds kind of cheeky yet. Groomers. That's why so many groomers are like, don't send owners home with homework. [00:05:07] Cuz then they come back and the dog's like, oh, bring it. I, I hear that vibration going and I'm, I'm ready for the fight cuz that's what my owners have been doing since we saw you last. So we need to know that the dog is supposed to be calm, comfortable, and cooperative the whole time. The purpose is to help the dog feel good about it and to feel. [00:05:30] that's really key. So we're trying to help build good experiences. So when, when we as groomers are trying to send somebody home with homework, there's a lot to teaching people, and this is a good reason why groomers should not let owners. , just go home and try things on their own. Okay. If you are not good at instructing owners, that's okay. [00:05:51] We can collaborate for things like that. We can come up with some handouts. You can lead them to this podcast. You might find an episode in particular that makes a lot of [00:06:00] sense for owners. There were a couple of episodes specifically for owners, but the, everything on this podcast is meant for owners too. [00:06:07] It might be a little over their head, but that's okay. , but we really need to help them underst. The how, the why, the what, , what it looks like in the end. , understand that the purpose is for calm, comfortable, and cooperative handling. Not to take 'em home and show 'em whose boss or whatever crazy thing they might try. [00:06:29] But also, here's another key point if we're gonna be talking to owners directly. If you're a groomer and you're not used to instructing owners, here's another key point. We need to make sure that the owners understand why this is necessary and why it affects them. Do not let owners walk away thinking that they are giving you a precious gift. [00:06:53] Like, oh, I guess I could do some training. You know, cuz he gives the groomer a hard time. So I'll do that for my nice, nice groomer. It's not for us, it's not a precious gift for your groomer. It's so that your dog is better prepared for our services. So that we can continue to offer you our services and so that your dog can have better care. [00:07:14] So it's about them. It's about the owners. It's about the owners having a dog who's gonna be better for dog grooming, who's gonna be better at the vet's office, who's going to be better when they need to brush him at home or trim his nails or look in an ear. So we need them to understand why it's important for them, and that's really, really helpful. [00:07:35] So when we're talking to people, our people teaching skills are really kind of unique and dog trainers spend a lot of time learning how to talk to people. Now, another reason why a lot of groomers are not very successful with sending owners home with homework is something that we as trainers run into a lot too. [00:07:56] You only meet one of the owners. Maybe not [00:08:00] everyone in the house is on board, so someone else might be hearing the instructions entirely differently. We tell the husband and he goes home and he interprets that through his own eyes and then he tells , the wife like, okay, well this is how we're gonna do it. [00:08:15] And, and then the wife tells, the teenager and okay, so now we've got, we're playing telephone. What's better is if we cut out middleman at every stage we. No more middlemen. If we can talk to them directly or send them a video, send them a podcast, talk to them through, a trainer. [00:08:35] Send them to a trainer if you know a trainer that you refer to, which is part of what we'll talk about in the next segment, is talking about collaborating, but to talk to them and find out everybody in the house has to be on board or not. Interfer. That's tricky. Okay. It's really, really tricky. Dog trainers, we handle this a lot. [00:08:58] Okay? There's always someone in the house who thinks that they need to be super, super sweet, and someone else who thinks they need to be super, super stern and they aren't communicating very well at home either. So when we get the dog back who knows what they've been working. Maybe someone is untraining just as fast as the other one can train. [00:09:18] Okay. This is really common stuff, so it's not that we can't send owners home with homework. , it's that if you're not good at instructing people, you might not get really good results. Okay. , so that's kind of from the groomer point of view. If we're thinking, well, what can I send them home with? All right, first we just need to be able to organize our own thoughts. [00:09:41] what do we want from this dog? What do we think the owners can work on? . And then the next part we're gonna talk a little bit about collaborating with others and the common questions that I. , if you're enjoying the show, please remember to follow or subscribe, share it with your friends and tell everybody, you know, [00:09:58] So in the second part, I wanna [00:10:00] talk about if you haven't had success with helping owners understand, or maybe you haven't had success with owners going to a trainer. Here are a couple things. , I think that often groomers think that everyone knows what groomers. and actually everybody else thinks they know what groomers do also. [00:10:18] But if you are not a groomer, you might not really have an idea of what it is we do that we are, picking up their feet. We're in between every toe over and over and over again in a distracting environment. We hold their attention for about two hours. Like the average dog, then a, the big doodle with a haircut. [00:10:39] Yeah, that dog is gonna spend a significant amount of time, , on the grooming table, in the tub with people's hands all over them. And so we need to be able to communicate together. Now trainers sometimes give advice that does not make sense for dog grooming. Dog groomers sometimes give advice that doesn't make sense to the dog trainer. [00:11:01] you know, like, Hey, can we just work on doing this? And the trainer's like, why would we do that? And I think that it just makes a whole bunch of people feel like, , we can't trust anybody else with it. Okay. Now, I will say from a trainer point of view, there are plenty of times where groomers are like, oh my God, we can't send 'em to a trainer or a trainer. [00:11:22] I remember it was a Facebook post where a trainer said, I'm just looking for a groomer to send these people to who will not do the dog's nails, cuz we're actively working on that. And groomers flamed that trainer. They were upset with that trainer. [00:11:36] And I was really embarrassed for our entire industry. If a trainer is working with a. and trying to actively work on teaching the dog to be comfortable for something and asks us as groomers to please skip that if we can. If the dog seems nervous at all, please skip it. They are actively working on it, guys. [00:11:57] That's awesome. We need to be [00:12:00] joining in going. Oh, fabulous. Okay. What kind of signs of stress do you want us to look for? What are you working on? How are you working on it? I wanna help. Okay. We should be collaborating. We shouldn't be saying that dog's, nails need to be, again, the dog's nails do not need to be done right now. [00:12:17] Even if they're super long. If we're working toward the dog being calm, comfortable, and cooperative for their. For their entire life. So sometimes groomers and trainers don't mix well, which is sad. Guys, I want us all to get along. I do. I really, really do. But the other thing that happens there is that sometimes owners are the middle man. [00:12:41] Remember, we're back to the middle man again. Right? And owner's gonna describe what a groomer wants to a trainer, and they're not gonna interpret it. , that's playing telephone. Okay. So we need to think about how are we going to convince our owners if you are working with a trainer, please, I need to talk to your trainer. [00:13:02] Yeah. Let them know I wanna talk to your trainer. Is that okay? I'm gonna call your trainer and we're gonna just find out, touch base and find out. , let the trainer know what's been going on in grooming and ask the trainer, Hey, , can we find a solution for this particular set of issues? Maybe it's loud noises, maybe it's, , way too wiggly and silly when other dogs are in the room. [00:13:25] , maybe it's not even an aggression issue, it's just a dog who's just. Just plain wiggly or barks or whatever it is, but to talk to the trainer directly as a groomer. Talk to the trainer, trainers. Talk to the groomer. Don't send an owner with a story because the owner's story is going to change a little bit. [00:13:44] Okay, middleman, we're playing telephone and it's not very effective, so we need to talk more about why. Something needs to be done. . Get all on the same page so that we can help the dogs. All of us. [00:14:00] So let's talk a little bit about, , who else can work on a dog? Who else can do it? I know there, there's some debate about, the person with the grooming tools needs to teach about the grooming tools. [00:14:12] They don't have our tools and that's true. Okay. The groomer has tools that maybe the owners don't. But that's where we start talking about, just start touching 'em all over with stuff and things. Just random things. Let your dog think that any object. Could be rubbed all over their body at any time, and they are expected to kind of just hang out, stand still, , let us do this stuff and be calm, comfortable, and cooperative. [00:14:43] And then maybe that's when you bring out, , the cheap electric toothbrush that makes some noise or, or maybe the beard trimmer. And you've got the blade guard so that you're not actually using the beard trimmer, but you're just making the noise, rubbing them all over with it, right? That's where some other tools and other types of object. [00:15:00] Can still be really helpful. And dogs can be very, very specific about you get a new clipper and they're like, Ooh, that clipper sounds different. A different dryer or a different nozzle for a dryer. Okay. That doesn't mean that we can't be working on it. It means that once they get into the grooming setting, there will be additional work that still needs to be done. [00:15:21] Okay. And then also think about. The grooming environment is different. There's a lot going on in a grooming environment, but owners can still work on things like that. A trainer can still work on things like that. A lot of trainers have a grooming table available to them, and if not, they can use one platforms or agility equipment or something to just stand that dog on a surface and You might be surprised how many different types of distractions a trainer can think up. [00:15:50] When we practice things like sit, stay, sometimes there are balls being tossed around, toys being tossed around, , half the class tugging with their dog while the [00:16:00] other half is in a sit stay. There's a huge amount of variety that a dog trainer can come up with if they know what the goal is. What does it ultimately look like? [00:16:13] What is the behavior that we're working on and what do we ultimately want? So if they were, if the distraction is the issue, yeah, a trainer can easily do that, even though it's not the same as the grooming environment. If they know what is happening in the grooming environment, they can come up with some strategies to work toward that grooming environment. [00:16:35] Um, and then there are other people who might help out too. A lot of our dogs go to doggy daycare. and there are some really interesting things that they can do with doggy daycare. They're very experienced dog people. [00:16:48] They can also work on some stuff. They can also work on, come on over here. Let me look in your ears. But everyone needs to be on the same page. Okay. Your pet sitter could be doing some of it. , certainly with some of our older customers, some of our elderly adults who. Can't do a lot of this stuff with their own dogs. [00:17:08] , I have a lot of elderly customers and when I get on the floor playing around with their dog, their dog is not used to that at all. , the 80 year olds rarely get on the floor and play with their dog. So often there are other people involved with caring for a dog, so we can get them on board. [00:17:24] Okay. But this is about sharing information and collaborating. and someone has to be pretty good at teaching people. And that's where trainers and behavior consultants come in is that we are good at teaching people. Well, we should be good at teaching people. It's a significant part of a dog trainer and a behavior consultant's job. [00:17:45] And I'm also gonna add here. The difference between a trainer and a behavior consultant, really kind of comes down to the type of work that we do. There are lots of different types of dog training, and I think many of us who are not dog [00:18:00] trainers, the non dog trainers think that dog training is obedience classes. [00:18:04] But that's just one piece. So a dog trainer might be somebody who runs obedience classes or runs agility classes. , they do group classes and they're teaching new skills, but they aren't necessarily the let's. Break it down, figure out what the cause of a problem and work on problem solving. [00:18:21] That tends to be the behavior consultant. It's sort of like the difference between an elementary school teacher and the guidance counselor. So if you think about that, like, oh, so a behavior consultant is a dog trainer. Who likes to dig in and gather all the clues and figure out what makes a dog tick and try to come up with solutions. [00:18:43] Okay. A lot of dog trainers like to do that too, but that's really kind of what the difference is. Okay. And then there are other, other variety of professionals out there for us too. So of course the veterinarian. Let's see if there's a health problem and if they need a behaviorist that is a veterinary special. [00:19:02] your veterinarian is going to send them to a vet behaviorist or it is a PhD. Okay. That is not your local dog trainer. That's a significant amount of college education. Okay? Not trade level. That's academic. . And I need you to know that because there are a lot of times right here groomer saying, oh, he needs to go to a behaviorist. [00:19:24] really? You think the average dog trainer or average behavior consultant can't figure out why this dog is spooky about a loud noise? You really think they need to go to veterinary school and then some additional study to figure that out? , you know, like really, most of us can figure out a lot of that, but like I said, dog trainers might not fully understand the grooming process and they might not know. [00:19:51] Okay. I talked to trainers and I'm like, guys, , if you've never groomed a dog, you might not realize just how many times we touched [00:20:00] that dog all over. Just how much focus we need from them. , the kind of things that make grooming difficult. You, you don't really understand until you really spend some time learning about grooming and groomers, trainers wanna. [00:20:15] I know who knew they. They will listen to you if you say, Hey, these are the things that are concerns. These are the things that we need help with because this dog is not safe to groom. And they're on board with that. And if not, find one who is so, I think that we can all work together to teach dogs how to be good for grooming. [00:20:36] Okay. And that really is at the end of it. , there's stuff that owners can do. There's stuff that trainers can be doing. There's stuff that groomers can be doing, but it's not likely to all be fixed during a haircut, during a grooming session. ? We're gonna have break away from the idea that he's getting a haircut, and I hope he learns to be good. [00:20:55] We might have to do some modified haircut. Some modified grooming sessions while he's learning how to be good. , and that's just part of preparing for a lifetime of grooming a lifetime. These dogs are gonna live to be 15 right now it's 2023 in 2038. Do you still wanna be fighting with this dog? [00:21:17] 2038? Think about it like that. Seems crazy far away, but 15 years. So if we can help them be good now, right? And just collaborate and work on it and let go of the idea that trims need to be perfect. , you're not selling haircuts. You are selling haircutting services, and this is a dog who isn't well prepared for your services, so you are helping the owners with their problem. [00:21:46] Talking about everybody working together is really, really important. Hopefully you're enjoying the show. I would love it if you would send in some ideas. , we can do that through the Facebook page or the Facebook [00:22:00] group for creating great grooming dogs. If you are interested in my classes, the Master Groomer Behavior Specialist course, , master groomer behavior specialist.com is finally up where I have listings of the people who have graduated so far, and I do offer my classes through whole pet nh.com. [00:22:18] That's whole Pet Grooming Academy.

What is consent with our dog, what does it looks like and why consent is important in any kind of cooperative care? Dr Natalie Rogers is back to talk about this subject that is very close to her heart. Look out for part 2 where we get into some of the how to do it and troubleshooting tips. Cooperative care in action - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0nfwmkUf-0 https://k9concepts.com.au/ www.facebook.com/groups/puptalk/ 

In this episode, I chat with cat behavior consultant Tabitha Kucera all about cooperative care for cats. She explains what it is, along with tips for following through with it.

This week we're talking about Humane Treatment. That whole idea of "I'm not hurting him.", "This needs to be done.", "This is really important." We'll talk about some of the humane aspects we must look at as groomers, veterinarians, vet techs, and owners. Find the podcast on your favorite podcast host or check out the website CreatingGreatGroomingDogs.com to listen or watch there. Want to learn more about behavior? My Master Groomer Behavior Specialist program consists of 4 eight week courses. They are entirely online and include weekly zoom classroom time. The program is through The Whole Pet Grooming Academy. For more information about this fully online course, go to WholePetNH.com.   #dogtrainer #dogtrainers #dogtraining #dogpodcast #dogpodcasters #doggroomer #doggroomers #doggrooming #MasterGroomerBehaviorSpecialist #petstylist #petstyling #ccpdt #iaabc #apdt #cbcc #cpdt #fearfree #fearfreecertifiedprofessional #fearfreepets #positivereinforcementtraining #positivetraining #dogsofinstagram #doggroomersofinstagram #dogtrainersofinstagram #akcsafetycertifiedgroomer #dogbusiness #schoolforgroomers #holisticgrooming #wholisticgrooming #WholePetGroomingAcademy

This week, we'll talk about what you're supposed to do if a dog is worried. If a dog is scared if a dog is being aggressive or acting aggressively, what can we do?  Find the podcast on your favorite podcast host, watch at https://www.youtube.com/@creatinggreatgroomingdogs, or check out the website CreatingGreatGroomingDogs.com to listen or watch there.  Want to learn more about behavior? My Master Groomer Behavior Specialist program consists of 4 eight week courses. They are entirely online and include weekly zoom classroom time. The program is through The Whole Pet Grooming Academy. For more information about this fully online course, go to WholePetNH.com #dogtrainer #dogtrainers #dogtraining #dogpodcast #dogpodcasters #doggroomer #doggroomers #doggrooming #MasterGroomerBehaviorSpecialist #petstylist #petstyling #ccpdt #iaabc #apdt #cbcc #cpdt #fearfree #fearfreecertifiedprofessional #fearfreepets #positivereinforcementtraining #positivetraining #dogsofinstagram #doggroomersofinstagram #dogtrainersofinstagram #akcsafetycertifiedgroomer #dogbusiness #schoolforgroomers #holisticgrooming #wholisticgrooming #WholePetGroomingAcademy

Why do we get stuck in our ways? What keeps us from trying new things? We'll talk about it this week. Find the podcast on your favorite host or check it out on the website CreatingGreatGroomingDogs.com to listen or watch there!

Tjadina lives in Germany with her husband, their three cats, Fenrir, Arktos and Lumos and their two horses, Aron and Quiero. Her initial interest for training animals came as a child, seeing animals act in movies and being at awe at how well they were trained. But movie animals were mostly dogs or horses, and they only had a family cat (and cats can't be trained...), so time was spent waiting for the magical day a dog would arrive. That day never came. So, several years later, still waiting for that dog, Tjadina started training the other animals who had come into her life, cats and horses. What started out as a bit of trick training turned into a wish for “more”. For the horses this meant less tack and more “liberty”. Realizing that “liberty” didn't equal happiness led Tjadina to start her journey into positive reinforcement training.  Still not having a dog, but now having two young cats, Tjadina started to question why cats can't also do the things that dogs do – why is it that everyone feels that cats are untrainable? Well, she quickly found out. Cats are perfectly capable of learning, they just tolerate a little less nonsense from us humans than many other domesticated animals do The cats took Tjadina from being the trainer to being the learner, and the more she learnt that training (and life) was less about telling someone to do something and more about collaborating and about meeting the learner's need and wishes, the more successful training became. Through her training as a veterinarian she has also developed a special interest in cooperative care, as she was put off by how many animals are forced to endure procedures they are clearly unhappy with and felt that there had to be ways to make the vet visit less terrifying for the animals. For links and videos mentioned in the episode, click here >>> https://atamember.com/2023/02/02/tjadina-klein/

This week we'll talk about where you may be getting stuck. You're trying to help the dog be Calm, Comfortable, and Cooperative(the 3C's) but it doesn't seem to be working the way that you hoped. You could be making a very common mistake.   If you want more info about the me, the show, the classes I teach, or the services I offer, go to CreatingGreatGroomingDogs.com

The team at ZooSpensefull has created its second annual Cooperative Care Conference for animal professionals and enthusiasts.  Founder Peter Giljam describes the reasoning behind the conference to bring trainers from diverse animal backgrounds together to share behavior modification ideas, solutions, and best practices. The online conference features over a dozen international speakers over several days.  Attendees will be able to access recorded presentations and panel discussions for several months following the conference. Animal Care Software KONG Zoo Zoo Logic Podcast  

In our new format, you can hear multiple trainers statements on one question. Normally, we translate what was said into German. In small episodes like this one, you can hear the original recordings of the English speaking trainers. This episode is about Medical Training an Cooperative Care. You will hear: Peter Giljam https://zoospensefull.com fair.stärkt linktr.ee/fairstaerkt

Episode 175 Is Patience Enough?   Are you really patient with the dogs? Gentle, loving, and patient and still aren't seeing results? There are a couple of mistakes that you could be making. Find out more this week! An Example Of A Safety Policy "To provide the highest level of care for your pet we have a safety policy. If at any time your pet gets nervous, anxious, scared, aggressive, or even overly silly, we slow down and help your pet to be comfortable and calm. It's very important to us that the pets in our care are kept safe and stress free. We use sharp tools and need to prevent injuries. We will work with your pet to help them feel comfortable. This will build a great experience for successful groomings for your pet's lifetime. Your pet may not be groomed to perfection today. We will charge for the time that we spend working with your pet."   This is not a legal document but it tells owners how we do business, what to expect, and starts conversations about behavior problems being safety problems.   Find the podcast on your favorite host or check it out on the web site CreatingGreatGroomingDogs.com to listen or watch there!

In this episode, Krystin Maloney, CPBT-KA (certified professional bird trainer) joins me and shares her experience of being a zoo keeper at the Denver Zoo and training her red tail hawk Chadwick. Connect with Krysin on InstagramCheck complete show notes hereEpisode 232: Cooperative Care, ReplayReactive Redefined FREE Mini Course  Adventure Dog Academy FREE Mini CourseTrustworthy RecallsFollow us on Instagram @agoodfeeling_inco www.agoodfeelingdogtraining.comVetCs discount code DISORDERLYDOGS 10% off your purchase Leaving a 5-star review really helps this podcast reach other dog guardians in search of help for their dogs and I literally read every single one! Song credit: Podington Bear

Medical Training oder Cooperative Care ist in vieler Munde! Was das ist und wofür es eingesetzt wird, erfährst du in dieser Folge. Teil davon sind: Anna Oblasser-Mirtl https://www.animaltrainingcenter.at/ Dorothea Johnen https://www.easy-dogs.net/ Nicole Stein https://www.medical-trainer.com/ Peter Giljam https://zoospensefull.com/ fair.stärkt linktr.ee/fairstaerkt Hier geht's zu unserem Shop https://store71936511.company.site/ Special Thanks to: Dem besten Tontechniker der Welt Dominik Gerstl Unserem Creative Director: Constantin Härthe Für die wunderbare Jingle: Chris https://soundcloud.com/sirc-303 Die super Übersetzung: Tine Unser toller Sprecher: Marc Härthe Und natürlich gilt unser Dank an friends & family ❤️

What are start button behaviors? Are they helpful for grooming? Are they difficult for groomers to use? Find out this week. Find the podcast on your favorite host or check it out on the web site CreatingGreatGroomingDogs.com to listen or watch there!

Join Marissa Martino and Laura Monaco Torelli for a conversation about cooperative care. Laura has a ton of experience working with many different species, teaching and training them complex, difficult behaviors. I had the pleasure of working with her on cooperative care techniques with Sully as he aged. Her compassionate approach towards the dog and the caregiver is amazing. During this episode, we discuss what cooperative care looks like, how to support the dog, and how to support the caregiver. 

Do you have a dog who is jumping and mouthing a lot? Plays a little too rough? Can't calm down and uses his mouth as a default behavior? This episode is for you! Emily and Libby interview Ferdie Yau of Behavior Vets about the “Shelter Shorts” video series featuring Chewy, a shelter dog with a big arousal biting problem. Shelter Shorts from Behavior Vets: Part 1 - Arousal Biting Pt 1: https://youtu.be/z0xAFKoOKIo Part 2 - Arousal Biting Pt 2: https://youtu.be/W0ByjxeHy58 Part 3 - Nosework: https://youtu.be/3JYbtyAiC5g Part 4 - Cooperative Care: https://youtu.be/mMosZb_3Xto Part 5 - Play and Impulse Control: https://youtu.be/_NbEeq3nw14 Part 6 - Behavior Training Summary: https://youtu.be/ONl-VAWQHqI Part 7 - Choosing the Right Reinforcer: https://youtu.be/kYZg0WKpJIs More about Ferdie: https://behaviorvetsnyc.com/our-team/1421-2/ Arousal with Elisheba Fay: https://www.podtotherescue.com/understanding-arousal.html For transcripts, visit www.podtotherescue.com Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/podtotherescue/ and Facebook Pod To The Rescue Credits: Libby Felts and Emily Wolf (Hosts and Creators). Original music by Mike Pesci. Production and editing by James Ede of Be Heard. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/sdr7/support

Join Sarah and cooperative veterinary care expert Monique Feyrecilde in a dynamic discussion about how we can best support our dogs through their veterinary experiences. Find Monique here: My website for information & consults: www.teachinganimals.com My YouTube (tutorial library growing all the time): https://www.youtube.com/teachinganimals Cooperative Veterinary Care Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/cooperativevetcare/ My veterinary clinic: www.mercerislandvet.com Fear Free Veterinary Professional Finder: https://fearfreepets.com/resources/directory/ Cog Dog Classroom: https://cog-dog-classroom.teachable.com/ Patreon: www.patreon.com/cogdogradio

In this episode, Evia Russell and I talk about the benefits of cooperative care training and how important it is if you want to keep your pet as healthy as possible. Do you have a pet who panics at the vet clinic? Do you struggle to do routine grooming with your pet? Are you filled with dread every time your pet has a medical issue because they can't be touched by a veterinarian? Fear not! Learn more about cooperative care training and our new virtual Happy Handling program. We discuss:Why cooperative care training should be an essential part of pet careThe difference between a "need" and a "want" in veterinary careBenefits to the human-animal bond through cooperative care trainingGiving animals agency and "Start" and "Stop" button behaviorsShort-term investment for long-term gain for veterinarians and caretakersLaunching our new Happy Handling virtual coaching programEvia's bio:Evia Russell is a CDBC and graduated from Carleton College with a B.A. in Animal Behavior. Evia worked in shelters and rescues before transitioning into the veterinary field. She followed her heart to Colorado where she accepted a position at Behavior Vets. She trained with Debbie Martin, renowned for cooperative care and is also a Fear-Free (TM) Certified Veterinary Professional. Evia is also Fear-Free (TM) Certified, a consultant through the IAABC, and is going to vet school at St George's University starting January of 2023 in order to offer more cooperative handling throughout the veterinary world. Links:Contact Behavior Vets at info@behaviorvets.com if you are interested in the Happy Handling Program!Interesting studies for a deeper dive into cooperative care training:Bertilsson, E., & Johnson Vegh, E. (2019). Animals in control – Start-button case studies. Video On Demand, Karen Pryor Clicker Training. https://video. clickertraining.com/programs/animals-in-control- start-button-case-studies?cid=719162Ramirez, K. (2012). Marine Mammal Training: The History of Training Animals for Medical Behaviors and Keys to Their Success. Veterinary Clinic Exotic Animal Practice, 15, 413-423. https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cvex.2012.06.005Stellato, A.C., Jajou, S., Dewey, C.E., Widowski, T.M., Niel, L. (2019). Effects of a Standardized Four-Week Desensitization and Counter-Conditioning Training Program on Pre-Existing Veterinary Fear in Companion Dogs. Animals, 9, 767. https://doi.org/10.3390/ani9100767 Theme music composed and performed by Andy Sells

This week, Jessica Benoit joins Tabitha to discuss cooperative care. Cooperative care involves training an animal to not only tolerate handling and husbandry procedures, but to be an active, willing participant in these experiences. The animal either gives consent by performing a behavior or is easily distracted by food during a veterinary procedure. Many animals feel fear, anxiety, and stress at their veterinary visits and with husbandry procedures. Cooperative care techniques provide animals with some choice and control which decreases fear, reduces stress, and increase comfort for the animal. Cooperative care gives the animal a voice and a choice and a way to say, “no, not right now” or “I'm not comfortable”. Empowered choice of the animal met with respectful actions of the handler builds the animals trust in the handler and in the care process itself. By having your animal become a willing participant of their own care, their confidence will increase, thus increasing their tolerance of future handling and veterinary care. Jessica and I discuss what is cooperative care, benefits of cooperative care, applications of cooperative care in the veterinary setting, and more! Also, keep an eye out for future cooperative care online and in-person events from Jessica (CVC Animal Training) and I (Chirrups and Chatter)About our guest:Jessica graduated from the NAIT Animal Health Technology program in 2010. She is a Registered Veterinary Technologist and the co-owner of Companion Veterinary Clinic, a Fear Free Certified Practice in Alberta, Canada. She is a Veterinary Technician Specialist in Behaviour, a Certified Professional Dog Trainer and Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner. Jessica is also a Fear Free Certified veterinary professional, trainer, and speaker. Jessica developed the training and behaviour program at Companion Veterinary Clinic in 2013, developing curricula for dog training classes, kitten classes, trick training, and offering private training and behaviour modification sessions. Jessica enjoys educating and sharing her knowledge through speaking engagements which include Doggone Safe presentations for children, guest lecturing for post-secondary institutions, providing client education seminars as well as continuing education events for veterinary professionals. In addition, she provides mentorship for veterinary technologists and trainers interested in animal behaviour. In her spare time, she loves reading and being outdoors with her husband and two children, 2 dogs, 1 cat, and 13 chickens!Related Show Resources: Companion Vetinary Clinic CA (Jessica's business):       https://www.companionvet.ca/training/Cat and Dog Behavior Consulting and Education US (Tabitha's business):       https://www.Chirrupsandchatter.comCooperative Veterinary Care Book by Alicea Howell and Monique Feyrecilde:       https://www.fearfreepets.comSupport the show :TwitterFacebookInstagramEmail

On this episode of the Seeing Eye Dogs Show Harriet is joined by two guests. Dr Ashe Mooney a new staff at Seeing Eye Dogs tells us about her life, career and path to joining Seeing Eye Dogs' vet team. We also chat about her previous and current volunteer work in kennels at Seeing Eye Dogs. We have more vet advice and health tips coming from our new staff in episodes- stay tuned! Then we're joined by Seeing Eye Dogs Instructor and and learning and development lead Kylie Gersh who talks to us about the principles of cooperative care and giving dogs choice in their care. We talk about animal husbandry and how we can use positive training methods and rewards to give better care to our animals with their welfare in mind. If you'd like to find out more about Seeing Eye Dogs head to our website: https://sed.visionaustralia.org/ See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Deborah Jones, Ph.D. is a retired psychology professor who now trains animals full-time.  She has been training for 25+ years and focuses on positive reinforcement based methods.  Deb has written 12 books on dog training and has helped develop several DVD series.  She has also trained and shown multiple breeds to high level titles in agility, rally, and obedience.  She is currently teaching online training classes and webinars at www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com.  Her newest project is the Cooperative Care Certificate program in partnership with Fenzi Dog Sports Academy.  You can learn more about this at www.cooperativecarecertificate.com.  Visit her website at www.k9infocus.com for her blog and more information.

In episode 42, Marissia is joined by Amy Creaven to discuss the importance of muzzle training for your dog. Amy Creaven is a recovering ICU nurse and has been a Karen Pryor Academy Certified Training Partner since 2010. Prior to COVID-19, she worked with all types of canine behavioral cases privately. Currently, she is a work-from-home mother of two non-fur children and one amazing furry sidekick the Marvelous Ms. Moya as well as a multitude of chickens. Amy also teaches positive reinforcement rattlesnake avoidance workshops and a Fear Free Handling and Cooperative Care lab to the veterinary students at Colorado State University.

Deborah Jones, Ph.D. is a retired psychology professor who now trains animals full-time.  She has been training for 25+ years and focuses on positive reinforcement based methods.  Deb has written 12 books on dog training and has helped develop several DVD series.  She has also trained and shown multiple breeds to high level titles in agility, rally, and obedience.  She is currently teaching online training classes and webinars at www.fenzidogsportsacademy.com.  Her newest project is the Cooperative Care Certificate program in partnership with Fenzi Dog Sports Academy.  You can learn more about this at www.cooperativecarecertificate.com.  Visit her website at www.k9infocus.com for her blog and more information. 

Today professional trainer Emily Jolliff joins Amy to discuss Cooperative Care and how to get started in giving your dog a choice when it comes to body handling, grooming and veterinary visits. Support the show

In the first part we'll talk about Holistic Grooming or Cooperative Care. Why do groomers and trainers use different terms to describe this? In the second part we'll talk about the idea that "comforting a dog reinforces fear." --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/creatinggreatgroomingdogs/message

Description:  In this episode Deb and I talk about the overlap between zen work and cooperative care, plus Deb shares what, why, and how consent can be important in your training. 

V tomto díle se nejdříve dozvíme něco o pojmech "low stress handling" a "cooperative care". Co to je? Jaký je mezi nimi rozdíl? U jakých druhů zvířat lze tyto metody aplikovat? Na jakém principu funguje stres a jak se na pacientech projevuje? A proč by minimálně základy těchto metod měl znát každý veterinář? Dále se s námi paní doktorky podělí o spousty poznatků z praxe: Jak stres u pacienta, co nejvíce snížit, případně se mu do příště vyvarovat? Jaké máme možnosti nenásilné fixace? Na závěr si vyslechneme i konkrétní případy z praxe a jak se je podařilo doktorkám zvládnout. Více informací o této problematice se můžete dočíst například v knize Cooperative veterinary care od autorů Alicea Howell a Monique Feyrecilde.

Jennifer Sandvig is the dog lover you wish you were! With a whole host of dogs in her household of varying breeds from whippet, to border collie, to chihuahua, Jen has found great ways to make life a little easier with her dogs related to tasks that are necessary for health and well-being. This applies to things like nail trims, vet visits, tooth exams, etc. In this discussion we talk about how she got started with this work, how you can get started with it in your dog's life, and the value it will be bring to you and your dog. Some resources from our conversation include: Ken Ramirez - animal trainer Deb Jones - Cooperative Care Book Alicia Howell - Cooperative Care Book Check out the episode. Then don't forget to rate, subscribe and share the episode to help another dog lover have more fun with their dogs!

Cooperative care is an important part of every dog's life. It includes the procedures and skills necessary for your dog's health and overall well-being. Also known as husbandry training, things like grooming and veterinary care fall under cooperative care. Guest, Rachel Forday, VSA-CDT, joins me to discuss what it is, why you should do it, and how to start working on it with your dog. To find a Fear Free professional (vet, groomer, trainer) near you, visit https://fearfreepets.com. Consider supporting our content and podcasts on Patreon. Thanks to our podcast sponsor, Pupford. Check out their products at https://pfrd.site/pupford-shop. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/dogtrainingaudioex/support

Reactive Redefined FREE Mini Course  Adventure Dog Academy FREE Mini Course Trustworthy RecallsFollow us on Instagram @agoodfeeling_inco www.agoodfeelingdogtraining.comVetCs discount code DISORDERLYDOGS 10% off your purchase If you like this podcast, be sure to subscribe so you don't miss out on super cool future episodes!Leaving a 5-star review really helps this podcast reach other dog guardians in search of help for their dogs and I literally read every single one! Song credit: Podington BearEpisode 132: Cooperative Care w/ Charissa Carvell

 SHOW NOTES:  Summary: Dr. Deborah Jones is a psychologist who specializes in theory and social behavior and teaches those subjects full time at Kent State University. An early innovator in the use of clicker training, she has owned and worked with a variety of breeds and has earned top level titles in Agility, Rally, and Obedience over the last 25 years.  In 2004, Deb worked with agility trainer and World Team member Judy Keller to develop the Focus Training System. FOCUS stands for Fun, Obedience & Consistency lead to Unbelievable Success. Deb has also worked with Denise Fenzi co-authoring the Dog Sports Skills book series and has authored several other books with more in the works. At FDSA, Deb offers a wide range of popular classes including a number of excellent foundations classes. Her focus is on developing training methods that are enjoyable and effective for both the dog and the trainer. Links mentioned: www.k9infocus.com (Deb's site) www.k9infocus.wordpress.com (Deb's blog) www.thedogathlete.com (Deb & Denise's books)  Next Episode:  To be released 6/16/2017, featuring Andrea Harrison.  TRANSCRIPTION: Melissa Breau: This is Melissa Breau and you're listening to the Fenzi Dogs Sports Podcast, brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy, an online school dedicated to providing high quality instruction for competitive dog sports using only the most current and progressive training methods. Today we will be talking to Dr. Deborah Jones, better known around FDSA as Deb Jones. Deb is a psychologist who specializes in theory and social behavior and teaches those subjects full time at Kent State University. An early innovator in the use of clicker training, she has owned and worked with a variety of breeds and has earned top level titles in Agility, Rally, and Obedience over the last 25 years.  In 2004, Deb worked with agility trainer and World Team member Judy Keller to develop the Focus Training System. FOCUS stands for Fun, Obedience & Consistency lead to Unbelievable Success. Deb has also worked with Denise Fenzi co-authoring the Dog Sports Skills book series and has authored several other books with more in the works. At FDSA, Deb offers a wide range of popular classes including a number of excellent foundations classes. Her focus is on developing training methods that are enjoyable and effective for both the dog and the trainer. Oh, and she's working on a cat class, too. Hi, Deb. Welcome to the podcast. Deb Jones: Hi, Melissa. Thank you, very much, for having me. Melissa Breau: I'm excited to chat today. Deb Jones: Oh, so am I. Melissa Breau: So, usually to get started I ask people to tell us a little bit about their dogs and what they are working on with them, but since I know you also have the cat class coming up, do you want to just walk us through your full furry crew and what you're working on with all of them?  Deb Jones: Sure. Yeah. I have quite a crew right now. I have three Border Collies and three Shelties that I'm working with, along with the cat, Tricky, who is going to be the star of the cat class -- because he insists. Every time I train dogs he's there, so I figured if he's going to show up regularly he might as well earn his keep and be part of a class at FDSA. I have my three Border Collies that I work with the majority of the time now. Many people know Zen, who is almost 10 years old, which seems impossible. He is my demo dog for everything. Always willing to work. He's done Agility, Obedience, and Rally, and titled in all of those and, these days, he's pretty much semi-retired. He gets to do almost whatever he wants except what he wants to do is play ball 24 / 7, so we don't do that, but other than that he gets to do whatever he wants.  Star is my next oldest dog, a Border Collie, who is, I say constantly, the smartest dog I ever met. She's scary smart and Star is also great demo dog. Also showed her as well. And my youngest boy now, who is actually Zen's nephew, Helo is going to be three. A lot of people have seen him in class videos. Ever since he was a puppy he's been working for FDSA in some form or the other. And the latest, youngest Sheltie is Tigger, who is a tiny little seven pound thing and he is just so full of himself and full of life, and he's a lot of fun, so he is also in quite a few of the class videos and he enjoys every second of it, and then the other two Shelties are a little bit older, so they have what we call old dog immunity, which means, again, you get to do whatever you want and they enjoy that. Melissa Breau: Fair enough. Deb Jones: So it's a busy household. Melissa Breau: I'd imagine -- but I've seen some of those videos you share of Tigger. He's so cute. Deb Jones: Oh. He's a little firecracker. To have such a tiny little dog…he's way below size for what Shelties usually are and this was just by chance. It was just a fluke that he was this small, but oh is he full of it, so he makes us laugh every day. That's the thing we say about Tigger is he makes us laugh constantly, so there's a lot of value in that.  Melissa Breau: So I wanted to ask about how you originally got into dog sports -- I know that you've done a lot of different sports and with a lot of different dogs, so what got you started?  Deb Jones: Yeah. I have. I've had a lot of different dogs over the years. Settled on herding dogs now, but I actually started out with a Labrador Retriever, black lab named Katie, and I was in graduate school and I'd been in about two years and just had to have a dog. I'd always had dogs just as pets, and never done a lot with them, but I really felt the need to have some sort of companionship in graduate school that was not stressful, so I got Katie, who was a rescue…from a rescue. She was about 18 months old and we did training classes. Took her to local training classes.  And this was in 1992, so at that time all there was, was obedience. If you wanted to show a dog in anything you were going to show it in Obedience, so I went through a number of classes. I met a lot of people. I got to know quite a bit about obedience competition and the only…the problem was I was already trained in behavioral psychology and learning theory, and what I saw happening in classes did not match at all my expectation for how we should be training animals. It was still very, very heavy handed and traditional back in those days. So I liked the idea of competition and performance but I didn't like the way that people told me you had to train in order to get to it, so that sort of started this conflict in me about I want to do this but I don't want to do it that way and made me work very hard to try to figure out 'how can I apply what I know from academics and get successful performance?' And so that was the start of it. Melissa Breau: So how did you bridge that gap? What actually got you started on that positive journey and at what point did you get introduced to clicker training? Deb Jones: Around the same time I got Katie I was introduced to the book Don't Shoot the Dog by Karen Pryor, which was probably the very first book that many dog trainers ever saw that had anything to do with positive training. I'm a voracious reader so I read every dog training book out there and this was one of many, but this was the one that really, really spoke to me and said to me you can take what you know from science, you can apply it to training the animal that you're working with now and you can be successful. Except the thing was nobody had actually done it. It was theory. It wasn't yet application. And so that set me on the path of being able to do this training the way I want to do it and having an enthusiastic and very willing animal partner rather than one who was basically forced to do it because there would be unpleasant consequences if they didn't, so I really would credit the book with getting me started on that. Melissa Breau: Awesome. Is that also how you were introduced to clicker training and shaping and all that good stuff? Deb Jones: Yeah. It all came around about the same time. There was actually…the first internet email group that I was ever on, which was called Click-L. This is really ancient. This was also back in about 1993 or so. When we first got internet at home, which was a big deal at the time, but ClickL was a group of like-minded people and we were all just simply trying to figure out how do we do this? How do we apply this? And Karen Pryor was on the list along with a number of other people who are still training today and we were all just kind of talking and throwing ideas around and trying to figure out how we could use this kind of technique, a clicker training technique, to get the…all different sorts of behaviors, so it was a time when nobody was really an expert because nobody had done it yet, but that's really what I wanted to work toward was to make it work in our day to day training. Melissa Breau: I bet back then you never would have thought you'd be teaching online in today's day in age. Deb Jones: Absolutely not. No. I remember my great excitement the first time my modem actually hooked up at home because for the longest time we only had access at school, when I was in graduate school, for the first couple of years, so no, I could never have foreseen that one day I would be involved in these online classes. That just would not have ever crossed my map. Melissa Breau: So one of my favorite lines to come out of the podcast so far Sue made this whole analogy during her interview about training without focus being almost like sending a kid to school without clothes on, right? Like you would never imagine… Deb Jones: I love that. Melissa Breau: ...sending a kid to school…  Deb Jones: No. Yeah. Melissa Breau: …without his clothes on. Like why would you train a dog if you don't already have their focus? So I wanted to talk a little bit about that concept. Focus seems likes a place where people just tend to struggle and I was kind of curious to get your take on why you think that is? Deb Jones: Oh, so many reasons. Yeah. Sue always has the best descriptions of things and I think that one is perfect. The problem with focus though is that it's invisible to a large extent. Oftentimes people have the illusion that they have focus because they have cookies and they have toys and they're in a training mode. Then they try to go into performance and all of a sudden it becomes very clear it was only an illusion. You did not have actual offered focus from your dog. You thought you did but you didn't, so that's about the time people contact me. They're like I don't know what went wrong. Everything was going so well and then they're really surprised. Sometimes people equate focus with eye contact and what we say is that's only part of it because you can be focused but not looking at each other. Looking at each other is not always focus. It's easy to look at somebody and to be a thousand miles away in your mind and dogs do it the same way that people do it, so it's more than eye contact, which can be a trained behavior. There has to be this desire to want to do whatever the activity is or the task is. And if that desire isn't there, there's not going to be any focus. You're always going to be looking around for something else that's more interesting, and I think people just don't realize any of this. You're training your dog. You're teaching behaviors and skills but you're not teaching it with focus and it falls apart very quickly when it's put to the test. Melissa Breau: It's very hard to...I mean even as a person, right? If you're focused on one task there's a big difference between being focused on the task and having eight million tabs open on your browser and you're jumping back and forth between Facebook and the thing you're writing and something else and it…  Deb Jones: Yeah. There is and it takes a while. It's not something we can expect to have immediately. Every once in a while, and it's very rare, you get a dog that just is naturally focused but it's really rare. I've only known one dog who, I would say, was really, truly always just focused from the get go. That's not the norm, so we all have to work at it to get our dogs to that place and people then don't know. Okay, they want focus but then they have no idea. What do you do? How do I get focus? And that's really the tricky part of it because there's a lot of things you do. Some of them work. Some of them don't. Melissa Breau: So how do you approach it in the class? Deb Jones: We have two classes that address focus and the first…I always hope people take them in order. The first class is Get Focused, which is what I always recommend people take first and then a follow-up to that is called Focus Games and we always try to offer Get Focused in one term and then Focus Games in the next so people can follow through with it. What I try to do is isolate focus from…take it out of the context of anything else and distill it down to this mutual desire to interact with each other, so convincing the dog that what we're doing is what he wants to do, which sounds hard and it is hard. Sometimes it is very difficult. It's not easy. We have a number of very specific exercises to work on letting our dogs know that focus pays off and if you focus on me I'll pay you for it and we try to get people quickly to move from food to toys and back and forth and into personal play as well so that you get paid in some way for focusing. There's a reinforcer for focusing. Then we start adding work to focus but what we do is typically the opposite of what everybody else does. We have to have focus first before we ask for work or play even. If the dog isn't focused we do not go on. We never train an unfocused dog and I say this…this is like a million times. I say this over and over again. If my dog's not focused I need to stop and this is really, really hard for people to do because they have a plan in their head for something that they wanted to train, but training an unfocused dog is just a waste of time if you truly want to develop this. Work and training always has to be combined with focus. So we go through a series of exercises designed to improve focus and also to teach people what to do when it's gone. What do you do? What's the protocol for when the focus is lost? Because lots of times then people are just kind of stuck. They don't know what to do so they take responsibility for focus and try to make it happen rather than allowing the dog to offer it. Melissa Breau: That whole being more exciting than a clown on crack line from Denise, right? Like that idea of just trying to be more and more exciting and your dog just continues to ignore you. Deb Jones: Yeah. Melissa Breau: Yeah. Deb Jones: Yeah. That ends up being kind of a death spiral. Things never go well if I have…if I have to add more and more energy to the interaction then there is a problem. I'm giving everything. My dog's not doing anything. We need to go back to getting the dog to want to focus and work with us and so we continually go back to that and we don't try to overwhelm the dog with fun and excitement because that's a dead end. You won't get very far with that. The problem is it often will temporarily work but it won't work over the long term. It won't hold up. We work on all of this in the Get Focused class. When we move onto the Focus Games class, that's a lot more about finding the flow and the rhythm to working together and extending it out and adding things like movement and taking food off our bodies and still getting focus, so we add all those kinds of things in there, so it's a good 12 weeks worth of focused focus on focus.   Melissa Breau: Right, so both the Focused class and your current class, the Performance Fundamentals class, seem to fall into that foundations category, right? So I wanted to ask you what you thought it was so…what is it about building a good foundation that is so critical when it comes to dog sports?  Deb Jones: Foundation really is everything. I truly believe that. If you do your foundations well you won't run into problems later on or…I won't say you won't. You won't run into as many problems later on or if you do run into problems you will have a way to fix them because the problem is in the foundation. Ninety-nine percent of the time something wasn't taught to fluency or you left something out somewhere. You've got a gap or a hole, so going back to foundation and making it strong is always the answer. It's never a wrong thing to do. So I really like being able to try to get in that really strong basis for everything else you want. I don't care what sport people are going into or even if they're not going into sport at all. If they just like training and they want to train their dog this…a good foundation prepares you for any direction in the future because oftentimes we change direction. You have a dog you think you're going to be doing obedience with but if you focus in the beginning too much on obedience behaviors it may end up that dog just isn't right for that, and so you have kind of these gaps for.. "oh well, let's see if I want to switch to agility. Now I need to train a new set of behaviors." We don't want that to happen so we've got the foundation for pretty much everything. Melissa Breau: Talk a little bit more about the Fundamentals Class specifically. Do you mind just giving some details around what you cover in that class and how you work to set up that foundation within the class syllabus? Within the class…within, I guess, what you teach there? Deb Jones: Sure. Yeah. Sure. We approach performance fundamentals very differently than many other people do or the way that people think they should approach dog training. I'm considering typically as a class that you either start with a puppy or you've gone through a puppy class and now you're ready to move onto the next thing, so that's where we would come in. I also think that it's a really good class for people who haven't done a lot of positive reinforcement training and they don't quite understand how to get started with it and what to do. I think it's also a good place for that, but the thing is rather than focusing on skills and behaviors…I don't care at all in a class if the dog learns to sit or lie down or do whatever it is on cue. In fact, lots of times they won't and they don't need to. What they need to do in Performance Fundamentals or what I want them to be able to do is to build the foundation for a good working relationship so that, again, the dog is ready. The dog's willing. The dog really wants to do what you're doing. We work hard on balancing things like getting dogs to play as well as food motivation and going back and forth with those quite a bit and my goal is always to make it seem like the dog doesn't know if you're playing or training. If they don't believe there's any difference, that's perfect. That's perfect training, so we do a lot of the foundation things like targeting behavior, so you might have the dog targeting to your hand. You might have the dog targeting with their nose to other objects. Have the dog targeting with their front feet or with their back feet, so we would explore okay there's all these different things we can do with targeting behavior and those are all going to come in handy for you on down the line. We'll look at and play around with shaping because shaping is one of my favorite techniques and it's also one that's really hard for people. It takes a lot of practice and you make a lot of mistakes. There's just no way around it. It's experimenting, so we play around with shaping and I always like to shape tricks and things that people don't care about a whole lot so if you mess it up nobody cares. It's no big deal, you know? You don't want to start being like.. on your competition retrieve, you don't want that to be the first time you shape. Because that matters to people, and so we try to get them to do the easier things first.  In that class we're also just looking at can you effectively use…once we've taught targeting, can you use luring? Can you use shaping? You can teach any behavior any number of ways and so we look a bit more at the techniques that underlie that and there's…people can make decisions about what they want to train and how they want to go about approaching it and we help them with that once they make some informed decisions.  Melissa Breau: For sure. I thought, writing the questions for this talk, I felt like there were eight million things I wanted to ask about and jumping back and forth between focus and then the Performance Fundamentals class and I've taken the Cooperative Canine Care Class  and loved it, so I wanted to at least briefly kind of touch on the other subjects. We'll definitely have to have you back to talk more in depth about them, but can you tell us a little bit about the Cooperative Canine Care Class and a little bit about the new cat class you're working on? And give people…  Deb Jones: Oh. Melissa Breau: …a sneak peek? Deb Jones: Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Cooperative Care has turned out to be one of my favorites. Which I think we've only been teaching it for a couple of years and I was…I became interested in this whole idea of husbandry work and working on grooming and veterinary procedures with animals after I had gone to a week-long training seminar at Shedd Aquarium a few years ago and the majority of the training they do is cooperative care type training. They train every day for things that their animals may or may not ever need but if they need them then it's there, so training their dolphins, for example, to flip upside down and hold still so they can take blood out of the vein by their tail and that's something they work on everyday even though it happens very rarely, and that got me thinking a lot about what we do with dogs because mostly what we do with dogs is we wrestle with them and usually because we're a little bit stronger and because they're nice they don't bite us, but in reality we do some pretty unpleasant things to them and we don't prepare them for it. We just do it, okay. So I wanted to really explore with dogs what can we do to make this more pleasant, more fun for everybody involved? Because it's no fun for the people either. It's just a stressful thing all the way around when you have to do something to an animal that it's afraid of and doesn't want you to do, so that was the idea for it and we've had a lot of fun with it because if you make it all into games and tricks and trained behaviors it really tends to be amazing what they will cooperate with and what they will allow you to do and I've used my own dogs as guinea pigs, of course, for everything on this and really been amazed at how much better it is for them than it was in the past. One of my dogs, Star, had developed a terrible fear of the vet. I was out of town and she ended up having to be spayed and it was unpleasant and just terrible things happened to her at that point. To the point that I was worried she would bite somebody at the vet, and now she goes in. She's pleased with herself. She jumps up on the table. She wants to do her chin rest and take her squeeze cheese and it just made her…it just made everything so much better for her and that made me so happy and that's what I hear from students all the time. It's these little things, you know? That my dog went to the vet and jumped on the scale by themselves or they held still while the vet gave them a shot and didn't even act like they noticed and that's what I want to hear. Those are the kinds of things that make that class worthwhile. Melissa Breau: And I know, for example, I have a German Shepherd with some pressure issues and just the working through the class and working through being able to touch them in different ways that just helped her so much in terms of wanting to cuddle and be a little bit closer to me at different times. It just had so much of a positive impact in the relationship over all. I can't recommend the class highly enough.  Deb Jones: Oh. I'm really happy to hear that. I just love hearing things like that because I think when we give our animals a choice…everybody's afraid to give them a choice because they're afraid they're going to say no. We're afraid they're going to say no I don't want you to touch me. No, I don't want this to happen, but if we approach it in a very incremental, systematic way and make it highly reinforcing they're much more likely to start saying yes and the whole idea that they have a choice, I think, makes them brave. It makes them confident and it increases our bond with them because we no longer have to wrestle them to the ground to try to do something with them, so they trust us more. Melissa Breau: Right. Do you want to share a little bit about the cat class? Deb Jones: The cat class. Yeah. I was just thinking about that. I'm still working on the cat class, which I honestly…honestly when I said it, it was a joke. I didn't necessarily actually ever intend,…when I first brought it up, I was like you know oh I'm so busy so here I am thinking about teaching a class to train cats and I thought that was funny, but people started jumping in and what I realized from that is every video I get from a student that has a cat the cat is there. Like I said earlier. The cat's in it. The cat's interested so what the heck? And people really do not believe that cats can be trained. They think cats are totally different than any other creature on the planet and you can train everything else but not a cat, so…and working with my own cat, Tricky, who's about six years old now, I think. I've worked quite a bit with Tricky over the years. He likes to train and he trains differently than a dog but in some ways, he's faster. In some ways a little bit…it's a little bit more challenging than I expected, so it's an exploration. It's an experiment but I'm looking at…started looking at what could we do with a class like this? How could I set it up?   So it's going to be a little bit different than some of my other classes because first we have to convince the cats that they want to work with us and I think that's a little…that's even more than it takes with a dog because our dogs we tend to be a little more social with anyway and cats sometimes we allow them to be very independent and we assume that's what they're supposed to be, so convincing them now that they want to do something with us and that it's going to pay off. I think that's going to be a big step, but other than that 90 percent of what I'm looking at it's the same way you train any animal. We use lots of positive reinforcement. We break things down into small bits and we work our way up, so I don't know that it will be that vastly different. It's not like there's one way to train cats and then another way to train every other animal in the world. It's that we train the same way but we have to remember that they are cats and that there are some things that we'll have to keep in mind that make them different than dogs, so it's an interesting challenge and I'm really excited about it now, so I'm spending the summer training my cat. Melissa Breau: I can't wait to see some of the videos from that. It sounds like it will be entertaining and really useful. I mean, it's always…I feel like anytime we learn more about training a different species than dogs it only improves your overall ability to train. Deb Jones: Oh. Definitely. I think I've learned more from other species by far than I have from training dogs. They're always more challenging. You have more to learn about them. Approach them differently, so yeah. I love training other species. That's one of my favorite things to do. Melissa Breau: We're getting towards the end of the podcast so we're at those last three questions that I ask every episode. So what is the dog related accomplishment that you are proudest of? Deb Jones: Oh. That's a tough question. First I…because you'd think okay I'd want to talk about titles or something but not really. What I think I'm most proud of just overall with all of my dogs is that they all want to work with me. If they have a choice between me and anything else in the world they'll choose me and there's a lot of effort, on my part in terms of training, that went into that but I'm very proud of the fact that my dogs freely make that decision and I don't ever have to coerce them to make that, so I'd say that has to be my overall answer. Melissa Breau: I think that's an accomplishment almost everybody listening to this would love to have, so I definitely think that's a good answer. What is the best piece of training advice that you have ever heard? Deb Jones: Oh. That's a hard one, too. These are hard questions, Melissa. I've heard lots of good and bad training advice over the years but most recently what's sticking in my mind comes from Denise, actually, which is train the dog in front of you. Train the dog you have right now not the dog you want or the dog that you think you ought to have, but train the one that's standing there and that is harder than it seems to be, but I think that's a very good piece of advice. They're all different and we need to work with each one as a unique individual. Melissa Breau: And even as a unique individual I mean the dog you have today is not the dog you have next week and it's so hard to see that sometimes. Deb Jones: Oh, it is. It's really hard because we just have built up in our minds this image of what this dog's like and even if the dog changes our image doesn't always change, so I think that's a really good point and I sometimes…I'm so bad I forget which dog knows which behavior. So I'll tell Helo to do something that Zen knows how to do and then I'll look at him like oh I never taught you that, so I need to focus a little more on the dog that's in front of me at the moment.  Melissa Breau: That's funny. And then finally, who is someone else in the dog world that you look up to? Deb Jones: Oh. Quit asking me hard questions. Well, I have to say as a group really, truly every instructor at FDSA is just amazing and they really inspire me. I feel challenged to always do better because of the people I'm working with. Because the instructors are all so awesome and I don't want to be the weak link so I always feel like I have to do more and work harder because of them, which is a really good thing. If we move out of that realm a little bit someone that I do truly admire would be Ken Ramirez. I worked with him at Shedd. Got to know him and work with him at Shedd Aquarium when I was there and have seen him several times since then and I like his approach and I like the fact that he's worked with so many different species and that he still maintains the science of it but at the same time it's not clinical. It's also humanized in a way. I don't know if that even makes any sense. Melissa Breau: Very practical. It's applicable. Deb Jones: Yes. Very, very applicable to a huge variety of situations, so I admire that. Melissa Breau: All right. Well, thank you, so much for coming on the podcast, Deb. It was really great to chat. Deb Jones: Oh. Thank you for asking me. Melissa Breau: Yeah. No. I was thrilled that you could make some time and that we could fit this in and thanks to all of our listeners for tuning in. We will be back next week. This time with Andrea Harrison to talk about the human half of the competitive team. If you haven't already, subscribe to our podcast in iTunes or the podcast app of your choice to have our next episode automatically downloaded to your phone as soon as it becomes available. CREDITS: Today's show is brought to you by the Fenzi Dog Sports Academy. Special thanks to Denise Fenzi for supporting this podcast. Music provided royalty-free by BenSound.com; the track featured here is called “Buddy.” Audio editing provided by Chris Lang and transcription written by CLK Transcription Services. Thanks again for tuning in -- and happy training!