Podcast appearances and mentions of emerald expositions

What's the most up-to-date and detailed overview of trade shows for inventors in 2024?  Listen to Stephanie Beringhele, VIP of Buyer Relations at Emerald Expositions, break down your worst fears and demystify unfounded road blocks that all new inventors face. Learn how to kill it with trade shows in 2024 and beyond!Spotify⬇️https://open.spotify.com/show/2YAZqvv...Apple⬇️https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast...Youtube⬇️https://www.youtube.com/@inventwithmeEmerald Expositions⬇️https://www.emeraldx.com/ASD Market Week⬇️https://asdonline.com/Invent with me is the first place to go when you need motivation to fire up your best self and create your invention! Remember, we took the punches so that you don't have to!-Breaking down the fears and concerns of inventors entering trade shows.    -If you're going to a trade show, what are the costs involved?  -What makes an arresting and high converting booth and why you always want to encourage interactions!-How do trade shows 10x the speed at which your invention can hit the market?-What is some magic that comes from trade shows for inventors that I may have never imagined?-How do I park, unload, set up and exhibit at a Vegas trade show?www.torkstrap.comwww.quicktiedownanchors.com

On this week's episode, Stephen Frothingham, Editor in Chief of Bicycle Retailer & Industry News at Outside, Inc, joins Randall to share his unique perspective on bicycle industry dynamics in general and the bike shop and OEM ecosystem in particular. Steve is an industry veteran who approaches his work with a warmth and curiosity we've long appreciated, and his reporting continues to serve as an influential resource for all of us who work in the space. Episdoe sponsor: Dynamic Cyclist (Promo code THEGRAVELRIDE for 15% off) Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast, I'm going to hand the microphone over to my co-host Randall Jacobs. Who's got Steven Frothingham editor and chief of bicycle retailer and industry news on the show to discuss his unique perspective on bicycle industry dynamics. The general bike shop and OEM ecosystem in particular, Steve is an industry veteran who approaches his work with warmth and curiosity that is so appreciated. His reporting continues to serve as an influential resource to everyone who works in the bicycle retail space. I think you'll get a lot out of this episode, learning a little bit more of the ins and outs of the industry as it all trickles down and has an effect. On us as riders. Before we jump in, I do need to thank this week. Sponsor, dynamic cyclist. The team over at dynamic cyclist has created a video library of stretching and strengthening techniques. Specifically designed around cyclists. The founders, cyclists themselves found a niche in developing this content as it didn't exist before their efforts. They've created hundreds and hundreds of different stretching routines to focus on different parts of the body that affect your performance as a cyclist. It's something for me that has become super important. I've been following the routine since around November last year, really specifically to work on lower back strengthening, but it found that I'm much more disciplined knowing that I've got these 15 to 20 minute episodes always available to me, both streaming from their website or also available from the app. I encourage you to give it a try. They've got a free one week trial, and if it works for you, They're offering gravel ride podcast listeners, a 15% discount off monthly or annual plans. It's quite affordable. I think it's less than a hundred dollars for an entire year's worth of programming. I expect like me I'll dip in and out of it with a heavier focus in the winter, but trying to stay on it, as I realized that stretching needs to be part of my routine. If I'm going to maintain my love and active cycling lifestyle, particularly on the gravel bike, where we all tend to get roughed up a bit. Use the code, the gravel ride to get that 15% off, just put it in the coupon code box@dynamiccyclists.com. When you check out, If that sounds like it's up your alley, I hope you give it a try again. They've got that free one week trial. So why the hell not. With that said, I'm going to hand the microphone off to my co-host Randall Jacobs. And jump right into this conversation with Steven Frothingham. [00:03:11] Randall: You're an old hand in the bike industry in the journalism space. Give us a little bit of background about that. [00:03:17] steve: , know, I started at Brain, I think I was the first editor hired back in think 92. And then I left and worked for the Associated Press twice and then came back into the bike industry to work for, be News for a few years. Uh, left them, went back to Brain, and then the company that owned Be News bought Brain. I ended up back in that same company again, which became outside. So it, yeah, it kind of feels like, uh, even though I don't work for ERs again, I feel like I'm back with the same crew. Uh, I literally was in the same, same desk, same office for a little while. So, uh, that, that seems to be, seems to be the pattern in my career here. [00:03:55] Randall: Just to clarify for our listeners, brain is bicycle retailer where you are currently, uh, editor-in-chief. Correct. [00:04:01] steve: Mm-hmm. [00:04:03] Randall: Tell us a little bit about the nature of that publication. So what role does it serve in the industry? [00:04:09] steve: well, when we started it in 92, you know, the full name is Bicycle Retailer and Industry News. And, uh, the, and was important back then because the, um, the other trade magazines, and believe it or not, there were three others back then were all print magazines. We were the fourth. Um, but they had this real focus on. Kind of this old school dealer thing, like, you know, we're gonna profile this retailer this month. We're gonna do a story on, know, uh, how to hire kids for the summer. We're gonna do a story about how to display your tires. Um, and we're not really gonna write about the industry, the supplier side. So we came along and we were bicycle retailer and industry news. And we used to kinda joke that what we're doing is reporting. We're telling the retailers what the, uh, suppliers are doing to them this month. Um, which is maybe a little bit too cynical, but we, we reported on what the industry was doing. We reported the news of what the supplier side was doing for the most part, which is what the retailers want to read. Um, most retailers, they might say that they'd like to read a story about how to merchandise their tires, but that's kind of broccoli. You know what they were, what really wanna, wanna have is the, uh, the steak and potatoes of, uh, finding out what one of their suppliers, uh, just bought another company or just went bankrupt or just switched factories in Taiwan or, or something like that. And that's the kinda stuff that the, uh, the other titles we're not doing back in the nineties, which is why, uh, this is gonna bring out the competitive bike racer jerk in me. But we, we put the other three out of business in three or four years, I think. Um, it wasn't very long before Brain was the only, uh, industry title in the US and, um, to some extent we're still doing the same thing. Obviously we've had to adapt to social media and the internet, which didn't exist when, when we started the magazine. But, um, we're still doing the same thing. We, we focus on news and, um, You know, we like to do some, we like to profile important retailers once in a while, but for the most part, uh, we still report on what the supplier side is doing with the knowledge that most of our readers are, uh, are retailers independent? [00:06:37] Randall: I actually hadn't appreciated that you were on the founding team for bicycle retailer. So can you share a little bit more about that and who else was involved and how that came to be? [00:06:47] steve: Well, I didn't have an investment unfortunately. Uh, I was, I think I was 22 years old or something, so I was just the first hired gun there. Uh, mark, who still writes for us, was the founding editor, uh, and a partner early on. There was another partner named Bill Sandler, who, uh, passed away quite a few years ago now. Uh, so Mark and Bill were, were really the founders um, Uh, I think they hired a, uh, an office lady named Kathy, and then they hired me. And, uh, that was kind of the start of the fun and, um, you know, and then the company went through various different ownerships, uh, some of which happened when, after I left, when I was, uh, outside the bike world for while. Uh, sometimes I forget it went through three or four different ownerships. Uh, when I came back it was owned by Nielsen of the famous Nielsen Ratings Nielsen, which, uh, owned, uh, trade shows including interbike. And, uh, we were actually operated by the National Bicycle Dealers Association, the nonprofit dealer trade group. Um, so we were owned by Nielsen, which was kind of renamed as Emerald Expositions. Uh, so I think my paycheck came from, now my paycheck came from the Mbda a you know, we went through quite a few years of being run by a very small nonprofit trade association. And then, and then it changed hands. Uh, M BDA a had some financial problems and, uh, we were not exactly helping things. So, uh, we got handed off to, uh, what was then called Pocket Outdoor Media, the company that owned Velo News. They owned Velo Press Draft, fleet Magazine. At that point, uh, Robin Thurston was a minority investor, I believe, in pocket outdoor media. And then, uh, you know, about a year or so after, uh, brain became part of that group, became the ceo, um, started raising money to buy a whole bunch of titles, which you've probably heard about, including Pink Bike Cycling Tips, um, some, uh, some bike events in Colorado. And then eventually the big purchase was raising the money to buy outside Magazine. And, um, company Pocket Outdoor Media was, I think, I think Robin had actually hired a marketing company to come up with a new name for Pocket Outdoor Media, because people thought Pocket Outdoor Media was a billboard company. Uh, and the sales reps didn't like that. Uh, so they were, you know, doing the marketing thing of, of bouncing all these ideas off the wall, coming, trying to come up with a new idea and a new name. And then after they bought Outside magazine, they're like, well, why don't we just, you know, renamed the company outside? we became outside, which things have been moving very quickly. It's, you know, it's a big change for me moving from for a very tiny, little underfunded non-profit trade association from bicycle shops N bda, to working for this multi billion dollar startup basically a tech company. Um, change. And that's why the, the time, you know, I mean, I think back it seems like, you know, a decade ago, but it's only been like two and half years. [00:10:23] Randall: So Robin Thurston is the current c e o of outside the group. And he previously founded is it, uh, map my. [00:10:31] steve: Map my ride, map my run my companies, sold to Under Armor. [00:10:35] Randall: I think that was like 160 million acquisition or something. I remember having this number offhand because it was part of my pitch deck for another company that I was trying to raise money for. It's like, oh here's a comparison point of this company that was acquired in the space. [00:10:50] steve: Yeah, I mean map where I was kind of ahead of the curve with doing some of the stuff that Strava's doing now, and uh, now and outside. We have Gaia, which is a, mapping app that's primarily used by hikers and skiers. And then trail Forks, which was developed by Pink Bike as a mapping app mostly for mountain bikers. [00:11:12] Randall: It's quite well regarded of, of seen in some of the forums. People are very keen on that particular application in the quality of the routes there [00:11:19] steve: are really good. They do have their niches. I use Gaia for backcountry skiing and it, it works really well. And it's, uh, uh, you know, we could go way down a rabbit hole, but you know, why I choose to use Gaia when I'm skiing and why I use trail forks when I'm mountain biking and why I use, don't know what else when I'm road biking. I don't know. But, you know, each has its own, uh, its own advantages in different spaces. So, yeah. Robin, made his fortune, I think, fair to say, selling that company to, uh, under Armour. And then he worked for Under Armour for a while. I think he was the Chief Technology Officer at Under Armor, uh, left and did some other stuff, and then eventually came back to this group. [00:12:02] Randall: So you started when you were 22, essentially first hire for bicycle retailer, this fledgling industry magazine with a particular point of view that resonated with dealers. What drew you to this particular space? You studied journalism in college. Were you an avid cyclist? [00:12:18] steve: Yeah. All that. Yeah. Uh, I was a cyclist. From day one, I started in B BMX when I was a little turd. Uh, I'm definitely, I'm totally of that age now where, you know, I'm 55 now and I go to the shows and I see these retro BMX bikes that some of the companies are doing. My light up, oh, there's that red that I wanted when I was, now I buy it. I've resisted so far, but yeah, I started in bmx. I did mountain bike races back in the eighties and road racing and, and, uh, and yeah, then I, I got a journalism degree and I did work completely outside the bike world for about 10 years, the Associated Press, covering presidential politics in New Hampshire where the presidential primary is a big deal. So that was really fun. I think I covered three or four primaries in New Hampshire. Plus the usual AP stuff of plane crashes and lost hikers and syrup and lost mooses and stuff like that. [00:13:18] Track 1: Standard, Northeast Fair. [00:13:19] steve: Yeah. Typical New Hampshire stuff. [00:13:21] Track 1: And remind me where you grew up. [00:13:24] steve: in New England. Uh, I was born just a little north of where you are in Salisbury, Massachusetts. And, uh, my family moved up into New Hampshire when I was a teenager. And then when I came back, when I worked for the Associated Press, I lived in Wolfborough, New Hampshire for about 10 years. [00:13:38] Track 1: So you and I when we chat tend to go off in various tangents so, where would you like to go? Or, or we can start with the email that you sent me yesterday about shaman cues. [00:13:49] steve: yeah. I could interview you on that. What do you know? [00:13:52] Track 1: Well, you're the one, the inside line. Yeah. You saw the press release. [00:13:56] steve: the inside line yet. You know, I'm just starting my research and I'm, I'm going to Taiwan next week, so hopefully I'll learn a lot more over there. But, it looks like a fairly significant development, this cues thing. I was sitting through a, I think it was an hour long video recording from Shaman about it yesterday. And, I got antsy halfway through and started calling people and emailing people, and, uh, video was moving too slowly. So like, I need some more need. I need to check in with some people around the industry here to see what they think. [00:14:27] Track 1: For those listening, shaman released a new, not just group set, but family of group sets on their kind of entry to entry, mid-level. And, it's significant for reasons that go beyond simply, here's some new parts. They have a reputation for using constantly varying standards and interfaces and pull ratios, which is the ratio of cable pull to, gear shifting. so how much cable pulls results in how much movement of the derailer constantly varying that, not just year to year, but from group to group in order to avoid cross compatibility with third party components and even within their own groups so that brands don't mix and match. Say you want a higher end quote unquote, set of levers connected to a lower injury derail because you don't see the value in the higher end derailer. Well, they preclude that by adjusting the pull ratios from group to group. And so what they've done with cues is make it such. The pull ratio is the same across all the groups, even with different speeds. And the thing that the major differentiator between the different levels is the number of years. the cog spacing in the back is the same. , and I think that that's quite significant. and it signals something too. I think it's very much in favor of riders. And it helps shops as well. I think it helps the industry more generally, but it's also indicative of a shift in the power dynamic in the bike industry. , in many ways is the new shaman, they're in the ascendant. They have, , a number of standards that they have put out there that have gotten adoption, that they have defended through patents and, in some cases, litigation and so I, I view it in the context of, innovation and competitiveness in the bike industry. [00:16:09] steve: Yeah, that makes sense. I think even Shaman used the word realistic, meaning that the new groups, they like to say that the technology that makes them special is in the cogs. Not in the chain. not so much in the crank set or the derailer. which allows mix and match so if somebody wants to spec a cassette, whether it's, Nine, 10 or 11 speed with a different crank, with a different chain, it'll still work okay, because there's nothing, it doesn't require any kind of special chain and the, the magic isn't in the chain. It's in the cassettes. So yeah, I think it's more realistic. I mean, obviously the development of this began before the pandemic and the part shortage that was through the pandemic. But, what happened in the pandemic with all these, new third party, fourth party parts coming up, getting a second look, people taking a second look at, whether it's micro shift or, uh, tetra breaks or whatever. Anything they can get. this really kind of seals the deal. This kind of tells you that, , For the next few years, we're probably gonna see more and more of these mixed groups, at least at the lower price. this is all below 1 0 5 on the road, below Dior, 12 speed or 11 speed on the mountain bike side. So everything that was cheaper than Dior and down on the mountain bike, everything that was cheaper than 1 0 5 is now queues [00:17:39] Randall: Which is to say en entry level to, uh, lower mid-level stuff, which is also good stuff. They have, clutch derails 11 speed. It does look to be quality components. [00:17:49] steve: Yep. [00:17:50] Track 1: Yeah. [00:17:50] steve: it's not the electric shifting, it's not the 12 speed. [00:17:52] Track 1: Oh, of course not. No. That, that stuff's still locked down. So, um, in fact, uh, [00:17:58] steve: is a di two group as part of this, as the, um, more, more for the mountain bike, E mountain bike group, there's a DI two. [00:18:06] Track 1: presumably sharing a battery, I haven't dived into that yet. Um, [00:18:11] steve: the one that has the uh, uh, the front freewheeling system and the antilock brakes that they launched at Eurobike last year. [00:18:18] Track 1: got it. [00:18:19] steve: Yeah. [00:18:20] Track 1: Yeah, it's, it's interesting. You, you'll, you may recall that in the past I was looking to, uh, create an open platform for bicycle electronics, and. And was trying to corral the support of that. Um, all those third parties that, that Taiwan vendor base that was shut out of the theam shaman duopoly. Um, I think, uh, probably a little bit before its time. Uh, certainly the, the appetite wasn't there for investments. Um, there was, there was interest, but not in, not any investment dollars coming in from the Taiwan side at that time. Uh, but since then we've seen, I mean, electronic is, well now you have a protocol that you can lock down and so you don't have to vary. It used to be that you vary pull ratios or some sort of mechanical, mechanical interface between components. Now you lock down the communication protocol and the power grid, and in that way you, you constrain interoperability between components from third parties. . Uh, and then you have a lot of patents around the grifter, which is, um, I would argue the, the center, the nexus of power in the bicycle industry, um, is arguably the road grifter, the road brake shift lever. And with it now, the, you know, the, the cas and, uh, you know, with electronic, the electronic protocol, power grid, things like that. Because if you control, you know, even if you just control all, you've patented every single way that you can make a lever swing, [00:19:47] steve: Right. [00:19:48] Track 1: and you know, and that, and then now you control this lever, well, that lever dictates that the caliper has to be from the same. Producer as well, because of safety reasons. You can't mix and match a caliper with a different hydraulic brake system. And then for the electronic, same deal, you know, it controls like you, you just have a closed protocol and nobody else can connect with that. And now you control the interfaces between the levers, the cas, the derails, um, and the bike itself. And now you can dictate, you know, we, we want this particular break interface. And so we see, you know, uh, flat mounts and so on. We see the new universal derail your hangar, uh, that STR introduced, which I haven't, I haven't gone deep on the patent yet, but I, I wonder, do you know if that precludes other companies from attaching a derailer in the same way if they, if they forego that universal hangar? [00:20:45] steve: No, I think Sharon's being pretty open with, with giving licenses to it, but I dunno about other third party. I mean, and at what point are we gonna have another, you know, swam shaman lawsuit, like from back in the eighties or nineties, whenever that was, that the bundling, you know? So at what point did the electronic, um, protocols become open source because of an antitrust law? The antitrust lawsuit? I think it's unlikely. Cause I don't know who would challenge 'em at this point. [00:21:18] Track 1: it's, uh, the bike co. [00:21:20] steve: you got something planned. [00:21:21] Track 1: Um, you know, we're, we're a tiny little blip on, on the grander, um, bike industry and, uh, you know, [00:21:29] steve: 1991. [00:21:30] Track 1: yeah. Well, so is it, is it true or, or answer this however you like? Um, I have, I wasn't around, um, for. At the time that that was happening. And so I get, I have second in hand information from people who were there or were adjacent to it. And then I have what I've read, but my understanding is, um, so was originally grip shift. Grip shift had a different way, uh, twisting the grip on a flat bar lever to shift a rear dera and Shao would try to preclude compatibility by again, changing the pull ratios so that Sam's grip shift wouldn't work with their deras. But then also by having these bundling deals where they go to a bike company, an o e m, uh, original equipment manufacturer. So in this case, like thesis is a, my company is an o e em specializes an no e em truck as no em, and would say, okay, you can buy these components individually, but if you buy the complete group set I e you don't buy's thing, then you get a 20% discount. I think is, is what it was. [00:22:35] steve: Could be. [00:22:36] Track 1: yeah, and there was an antitrust suit that STR filed against Shaman, um, and STR one. And as I understand it, that essentially funded Sam's early rise. That's the reason why we have STR in many ways. [00:22:51] steve: all. I mean, I think there's some other money behind [00:22:53] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:22:54] steve: uh, yeah, that's always been sort of the, uh, the, uh, the urban myth. I don't know the, the STR used that money to go out and, you know, buy all, all the things that they've bought. Rock shocks, true native, um, zip [00:23:11] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:23:12] steve: whatever. And, uh, sax, which nobody really remembers now, but that was a pretty significant purchase. Uhs, not Richard Sax the, uh, frame builder from Connecticut, but, uh, sax of Germany, which, uh, made all the internal hubs and also made derailers and stuff, [00:23:29] Track 1: And chains too. Right? Because I think. [00:23:31] steve: chains, um, became s chains, which became Ram chains. Um, [00:23:37] Track 1: are still made in Portugal, I believe. [00:23:39] steve: I think so, [00:23:40] Track 1: Yeah. [00:23:41] steve: so yeah, they, they acquired that factory. Haven't, you know, chain factory is no small thing. And, um, anyway, that's always been the, you know, um, the rumor Yeah. Is that they used that cash settlement or, or judgment from Shaman to fund those. Uh, I don't know how true that is. Like I said, I know that there is some other money behind Swam and there still is. Um, some of those companies that they bought were, uh, pretty distressed [00:24:12] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:24:13] steve: You know, rock Jocks had had an IPO that, uh, were living at the top of the world there for a couple years [00:24:19] Track 1: The mountain bike. The mountain bike. Boom. [00:24:22] steve: Yeah. And then that kind of crashed and that's about when, when into the Suspension Fork business. [00:24:28] Track 1: Yeah. [00:24:30] steve: So they've been pretty savvy about the, uh, the acquisitions they made Mo most of which were back, back in the nineties. Although, what have they bought recently? They bought, [00:24:40] Track 1: Hammerhead. [00:24:42] steve: hammerhead. [00:24:43] Track 1: Yeah. [00:24:44] steve: one. [00:24:44] Track 1: Yeah. [00:24:45] steve: Yeah. And, uh, and the Power Meter company. I don't, the power tab, which they kinda put [00:24:51] Track 1: cork. [00:24:52] steve: then, [00:24:52] Track 1: Cork, um, was power meters. Um, [00:24:55] steve: power Tap, which they bought from cs, [00:24:58] Track 1: oh, that's right. [00:24:59] steve: what was [00:25:00] Track 1: Uh, shocks. [00:25:02] steve: Jacquez [00:25:03] Track 1: Yeah. [00:25:04] steve: and uh, what was the other one I was gonna say they bought something else. Oh, time pedals. [00:25:14] Track 1: Hmm. So that really gives them, you know, a lot of different, um, components and IP that they can then, uh, interconnect through that. The access, uh, protocol, which is a closed, I believe, ZigBee based, um, protocol. Um, and so, you know, getting back to, you know, open versus closed standards and ecosystems and things like that, um, it seems to be the trend in the industry as, as always to, um, to have walled gardens. [00:25:41] steve: Yeah. And that's been fun. You know, it was fun to see when, when Hammerhead, was, had had some di I two integration that Shaman shut him down [00:25:53] Track 1: Yep. [00:25:54] steve: on after Bottom, which was, um, some pretty good industry gossip right there. Um, but yeah, I mean, everybody, it's been really fun speculating about what's gonna happen, you know, with RAM owning, uh, you know, the power meter company owning a pedal company, owning a, you know, power tap, which made, which used to make power meter pedals. Um, and then owning a, a head unit GPS company on top of that. And then, like you said, the whole integration with access and, uh, it's pretty fun. [00:26:26] Track 1: Yeah, it's the full stack in a way. I mean, [00:26:28] steve: them battling, you know, setting up this not only with Shaman, but with, with, uh, with Fox Factory also. [00:26:38] Track 1: I'm waiting to, for, it seems very natural that a next step for them would to be, would be to buy, say a, a company that makes home trainers or even a company that does training software that, um, they might not want to go direct head-to-head with Swift, cuz Wif has such a dominant position in that space and they don't want to alienate them or get shut off of that platform. But, um, it seems like a natural next step to get into this burgeoning home cycling, uh, space, which granted has. Tapered off a little bit since, you know, post pandemic, but I think is still, you're, you know, there's a whole, there's a whole range of cyclists who primarily ride at home and are doing competitions in virtual worlds, and I don't think that that's going to change as the technology gets better. [00:27:22] steve: Yeah. [00:27:24] Track 1: Yeah. [00:27:24] steve: Yeah, that would make sense. I'm sure there's been all sorts of conversations and there's been a couple brands that have come and gone, um, that, uh, you know, maybe, uh, ceramic has kind of hit its lip and said, no, we're, we're not gonna bid on that one. Or we're not gonna, we're not gonna overpay for that one. I don't know. But, you know, you can look at the, the number of indoor brands that have, uh, had financial problems in the last, uh, year and a half, and, uh, even once before that, that just disappeared. Um, have you seen a kinetic trainer on the market in a couple years? I. [00:28:02] Track 1: Yeah. So what else do you see happening in the bike industry? Um, so obviously parts shortages were the big story during the pandemic. Now we have, uh, parts being, you know, liquidated through various channels and presumably is that's going to accelerate, uh, post Taipei show coming up in, uh, in Taiwan in, uh, the end of March [00:28:25] steve: Yeah, I think so. I think there's still some, some shortages I hear on the road bike component side. I guess you'd know more about that than, than I would. Um, [00:28:34] Track 1: saying group sets or. [00:28:37] steve: yeah, and, and the bikes that those group sets. Hang on. You know, I think, um, know, if you talk to dealers, it's, uh, yeah, they have all the $900 mountain bikes. They can, they can eat, uh, or even I think the 1500, $1,900 bikes, but the, um, the mid to high price mountain bikes are, are a little bit harder to get. And I think also the, um, mid to high price road bikes are hard to get. And, um, and there's kind of a shortage of, there's kind of a dearth of, of. Of really affordable road bikes. [00:29:13] Track 1: Hmm. [00:29:14] steve: I think, uh, there's not a lot of groups there, you know, I mean, tram's got and then, you know, shaman hasn't been, had a real good road group, uh, below 1 0 5 for years. So, you know, it'd be interesting and see how cues affects, affects that. [00:29:34] Track 1: Well, and their, their transition to 12 speed too. Um, and they had a, a factory catch on fire just before the pandemic, right. [00:29:43] steve: Yeah. What was that? It was a, was it like an ANOT factory or something? I know they were making some real high end stuff. Like they were making like the xtr crank, you know, when, when Xtr went to 12 speed, I think they couldn't get a crank for it for like two years. Right. [00:29:59] Track 1: Hmm. [00:29:59] steve: they were like, relabeling, theor, xt cranks. people were pissed about and Uh, yeah, I don't know. It it's, yeah. Fires in the bike in factory fires in the bike industry. That's, that's been, uh, yeah, that's been a gossipy thing going back, you know, 50 years. I think you can get some old timers telling you about famous fires and how they couldn't get such and such for, for five years after that fire. And sometimes I wonder much of it's urban myth, you know, and people just blaming things on their inability to produce stuff. They blame it on a factory fire. Didn't you hear about that? Come on. Giant factory burned out last year. And uh, I think especially before the internet, who would check, you know, it's like, ah, I don't know. I heard that like the van sneaker factory burned down last year. Didn't you hear about that? That's why I can't get those van sneakers I've been looking for. before the internet it was pretty hard to look that up. Now it's a little bit easier, you know? [00:30:55] Randall: Now you've been, so I think probably both of us have been talking to a lot of dealers lately for different reasons. Um, with, with me, we've been building out our, our dealer network for our logo spiel program. Um, and I'm curious to hear, I'll share a little bit about what I've been hearing and I'm curious how that, um, relates to, you know, some of the things that you've been hearing from dealers. So some of the things I've heard is, um, well one, you have, uh, essentially you weren't able to get product for a long time. A lot of dealers over ordered or ordered the same thing from multiple sources, hoping to get it from somewhere, um, sooner rather than later. And then all of it got dumped on the, on dealers in the fall and over the winter at exactly the time when. you know, nothing is selling generally, it's, it's the, the doldrums of the, the bike, uh, selling season and cycling season in North America anyways. But then also, you know, people, uh, with, with the country opening up post covid, um, you know, the bike boom was, was coming to an end and it wasn't clear. You know, where things will, you know, how that will level off and how much lag there will be, where everyone who got a b wanted a bike, got a bike and you know, the, you know, at at what point and, and you know, the secondhand market will start coming down in price and that'll become more compelling. So how long will it take for this lag of, of certain types of components to work its way through the space? Um, and it's been interesting too, you see, um, an ex, am I right that there's an acceleration of the big brands buying shops? [00:32:27] steve: Uh, depends on what time scale you're looking at. I, you know, I don't, I think, um, I think that's slowed down in the last six months or, or nine months. There was a big acceleration, you know, in, in 21, especially, uh, I think it was 21 when, you know, track had been buying shops left and right. Uh, specialized had not. [00:32:50] Track 1: Yep. [00:32:51] steve: um, when Mike's bikes sold to, uh, to pawn in, I think, I wanna say that was 2021. [00:32:59] Track 1: Pawn being the owner of, uh, Cervelo Santa Cruz and a handful of other brands. And Mike Spikes being a big multi-store chain, mostly in, in the NorCal, um, you know, bay Area. Yeah, [00:33:12] steve: Yeah. And they were the, I think the single biggest specialized dealer in the country and one of the, or maybe the most important markets in the country, the [00:33:19] Track 1: I think, I think Eric's was their biggest, I think Mike's bikes was number two. [00:33:24] steve: could [00:33:24] Track 1: but certainly the Bay Area is huge and a lot of, um, you see a lot of. S works, you know, $15,000 bikes rolling around the Bay Area. [00:33:35] steve: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot more of the high end stuff than, than Eric's sell, I'm sure. [00:33:40] Track 1: Yeah. [00:33:41] steve: Um, and it did, and it did kind of seem like Specialized had all their eggs in that basket. Um, they didn't have a lot of other dealers. It was just Eric. I mean, uh, Mike's just ruled the rot anyway, so Yeah. Specialized really woke up. Uh, that was, that was the wake up call for Mike Ard was, oh my God, we're, we're losing our distribution. Um, and it came on, they lost some other big dis uh, big retail distributions like, uh, um, ables in, in, uh, hill Abel down in Austin, Texas, which was a huge specialized dealer that Trek walked in and bought, um, all of a sudden specialized, lost its biggest dealer in Austin, Texas, which is another, you know, another one of the handful of very biggest markets in the country. [00:34:27] Track 1: And growing, growing rapidly with a lot of deep pocketed folks as well who tend to buy their, their high-end stuff. Yeah. [00:34:34] steve: So all of a sudden specialized, uh, said we've gotta get into buying shops. And, uh, they were running around buying a lot of shops. Um, I think they did not have the system set up that Trekk did for, uh, processing these shops once they had acquired 'em. Uh, so it was a little bit more chaotic, whereas I think Trekk had built up to it slowly and they had, you know, from what the stories I've heard of, you know, TREKK has these SWAT teams that come in when they buy a shop. You know, there's just woo uh, you know, 20, 20 people come down from Waterloo and, and fill up the hotel rooms and whatever town that they just bought the dealership in and just handle that transition. You know, they usually shut down for a week or so, pop up some new signs, change over the website, uh, make some people some offers, and, uh, and they're, you know, kick out all the other brands and, uh, they're up and running again in a couple weeks. And, um, They've got it down to a science now and uh, I don't think specialized ever quite got to that. It was more like, uh, yeah, okay, we bought you, um, keep running. We'll talk to you in a few months when we need something from you. Uh, that was some of the impression I got anyway. I think specialized also was overpaying for some of the shops from some of the stories I heard, but, um, but I think it all slowed down a lot last, last year, I think with the, um, you know, with the economy and I think, um, the cashflow for companies like Specialized Amtrak I think became harder. And there's been a handful of acquisitions in the last nine months, but it, it really slowed down a lot um, I haven't heard it very many recently. We don't hear about 'em all cuz both, both track and specialize. Uh, tend to be really quiet when they buy a, a shop or a chain of shops. Uh, but I haven't heard many rumors in the last three or four months. [00:36:26] Track 1: I've heard, granted, I don't know the, uh, the dates on these, but as I've been talking to dealers, I've heard about offers being made, but those offers may have been made, you know, six, nine months ago, a year ago or something like that. Um, but there's definitely been a lot of, um, a lot of conversations being had along those lines over the past year, year and a half or so. Um, and it's interesting, you know, there's this long standing conversation in the bike industry about, um, you know, the dynamic between, or the balance between, uh, direct to consumer sales over the internet, which is growing for obvious reasons. And the pivotal role that the bicycle shop, particularly independent shops play, um, as a hub for the cycling community. And how do you. You know, how do you maintain this critical bit of community infrastructure, um, in a, in a world where, you know, increasingly people can buy things very conveniently over the internet and have it delivered, um, you know, directly to them. Now there's, you know, service has for a long time, um, been the bread and butter of shops. And a lot of shops pre pandemic were at least telling me, um, that they, as much as they spent a lot of their money on having bikes on the floor, most of their income, most of their net profit was coming from, um, service and parts and accessories. Uh, which is in some ways, you know, supplemental to service. Cuz when you go in for maintenance, you're getting chains and, and other service parts. Um, but how do you, how do you see that evolving over time from your vantage point? [00:38:07] steve: It's been hard. I mean, uh, when you hear that, you think, well, why don't you do a service only place? And, [00:38:15] Track 1: of folks are [00:38:17] steve: a few folks are, I'm not finding a whole lot of great examples of people that have been raging successes doing that. Um, Uh, you know, the whole, the whole mobile service thing has been at best for the last two or three years. Um, you know, I know that, um, a few people that have gone that way in, um, in the Boulder area haven't been hugely successful. I think there might be a couple that are still running, but, um, the problem is that you just lose that volume. You know, whether you make a lot of money on a bike sale or not, it's still, you know, thousand, 2000, 3000, $5,000 bike sale. You know, for some shops in Boulders, I know you were and visited some of them, you know, they pretty regularly are selling 10,000 and [00:39:08] Track 1: sure. [00:39:09] steve: uh, bikes. And, you know, the profit margin on that not be huge. And you might say, well, why does that guy even, you know, still sell mo bikes? Um, he can make more money building a wheel or, you know, just charging someone a few hundred dollars to install a new campy group on a moot spring. Um, but he nee he needs that, that dollar volume, uh, from the bike sale to pay the rent. Um, so there, there haven't been as many examples of that as you would think. you know, going back five years, going back 20, 30 years, people have been talking about, well, hey, we make all our money in service. Why don't we just do service hasn't worked for many people. Um, I think people expect bike shops to have bikes and, uh, I think the bike shops need that, that volume to make it work. Um, you know, some shops have been, have found some supplemental income doing more different types of service, whether it's, you know, whether it's bike fits, whether it's click and collect fulfillment. Or, uh, doing warranty service. You know, I know I, I talked to a guy at Caba who does warranty service for one of the better known to consumer e-bike brands. And, uh, he makes a pretty significant, high margin chunk of money, uh, just from dealing with warranty service from people that buy these bikes online and then have, have whatever troubles and the, uh, the brand reimburses him, uh, pretty generously. [00:40:46] Track 1: Yeah. [00:40:47] steve: so there's all sorts of, uh, kind of ancillary things around the edges that people fill in, but that guy, he still sound a lot of bicycles. [00:40:55] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:40:56] steve: Uh, he still has a warehouse full of 'em, and, uh, um, [00:41:01] Track 1: as do a lot of people right now, especially as we, we were saying on the, on the more entry level, um, in particular, [00:41:09] steve: Yeah. So I don't know. I haven't seen, there's, there's examples here and there. Yeah. Of, of the people who are, who are focusing on the service or are looking into, you know, more of the showrooming, uh, fulfillment click and collect kind of models. And there, you know, there's a million different models as you know, [00:41:27] Track 1: Mm-hmm. Well and, and click and collect and, [00:41:31] steve: not, I'm not finding, but like wholesale, you know, all the bike shops going outta business and all of a sudden we have a whole bunch of just little fulfillment showrooms around. Um, is happening, but not on a huge scale, you know, I mean, what specializes do, I don't know how many of these fulfillment centers they have. Uh, that's one of the things they did up in Northern California where, um, after they lost Mikes was opening up these little fulfillment centers. They would just rent a warehouse space in the, you know, in the business park somewhere and hire a couple people to assemble bikes and give 'em a truck, and they would run around and deliver 'em. [00:42:10] Track 1: Oh, that wa that was basically, um, velo, fix's pitch to the OEMs in the day. Yeah. Uh, Veli fix, uh, being a van based service operator, [00:42:21] steve: Yeah. [00:42:21] Track 1: I know you know this [00:42:22] steve: to be doing a better job of that than, than maybe be, was, um, [00:42:29] Track 1: velo fix. I, [00:42:30] steve: model. [00:42:30] Track 1: yeah. I had spoken with Velix a couple of times, and not only could I not understand the value to us as an o e em as a brand, but I couldn't understand a, you know, they, they required a huge upfront and, uh, investment from their franchisees to not just buy a van but outfitted a particular way and have it beli, fixed, branded. Um, and then, you know, you're paying a, uh, I think an, um, it might have been an upfront fee and then a recurring fee, and then a percentage of your income. To this company and this company, uh, is supposed to drive business to your franchise, but really in a way, they're kind of intermediating you. And at the end of the day, you know, and the co I, I'm curious, what do you think about this? Um, I, I had always talked, uh, spoken to the van based folks that I knew and said like, you know, at the end of the day, your, your brand is yourself and the quality of service and your engagement with your local community. And, you know, there's no big, um, company, uh, I think can substitute for that. And I think the bike space is, is that might be more so the case than in other spaces. Like you have this particular mechanic, uh, because the difference between a good mechanic, a skilled mechanic, a mechanic who cares, uh, and, and does a good job, um, and is engaged in, in their community. The difference between that and. Somebody who doesn't, somebody who doesn't have the skills. Somebody who, you know, it could be the difference between a safe bike and an unsafe bike amongst other things. Yeah. Um, well, so another topic that you and I have touched on in the past is, uh, you. The supply chain and risks to the supply chain. Uh, I've seen a couple of articles, I believe in your publication, uh, talking about, um, the increasing concerns about exposure to, uh, growing hostilities between, uh, the US and China over, uh, Taiwan. And I'm curious, what have you been hearing, seeing, uh, with regards to, um, any sort of changes being made on the, uh, upstream for a lot of companies, um, both, um, OEMs who are sourcing in Asia, but then also say Taiwanese companies and so on, uh, who are producing, um, you know, what, what changes are you seeing? Are people, is that accelerating at all with the, uh, increasingly hostile rhetoric? [00:45:07] steve: Uh, yeah, but you know, slower than maybe I would've expected. Um, and that, you know, that might not be due to reluctance, but just the fact that it's, it's a hard task, um, [00:45:19] Track 1: Yeah. [00:45:20] steve: setting up a, a bike factory or, uh, in a new country and building the infrastructure around it, uh, to make that work, particularly during a pandemic. [00:45:30] Track 1: Yeah, yeah. [00:45:31] steve: so, you know, going back to stories I was writing two years ago, you know, I, I think I saw just recently that Velo Saddle opened their factory in Vietnam, I think it was, [00:45:44] Track 1: Makes sense. [00:45:45] steve: that they had been working on for like three years. Um, and then they just, they were ready to turn it on when the pandemic started, and then they just, um, sat on those plans for a couple years. But yeah, Velo moving outta Taiwan supplementing their Taiwan factory with uh, a Vietnam factory is a big deal. And, um, You know, and at Eurobike last year, I had a lot of talks with people about, them setting up different factories in Eastern Europe to serve the European market. Um, but, uh, you know, we just saw investing in a new factory in Taiwan, so, uh, there's not a, there's not a mess exodus yet, and I think people are, are finding it's, um, fairly hard to operate in some of these other countries. Cambodia, I think, turned out to be more of a challenge than some people thought. [00:46:44] Track 1: Sure [00:46:45] steve: Um, you know, there's stuff moving towards Malaysia and Singapore, I think. Um, [00:46:52] Track 1: in the. [00:46:53] steve: Vietnam has been up and down. They had more covid problems than, than some areas, I think. yeah, it's a very slow movement. I think, you know, um, you know, Trek hasn't broken ground on a giant new factory in, in Waterloo, as far as I know. Or, or, or in Mexico or in, uh, Bulgaria. You know, [00:47:16] Track 1: Well, that, that's a whole, I mean, it's a related conversation, um, and a whole other can of worms that we can crack open. Um, so one, you know, we, we have looked, um, at various times over the years at what it would take, um, both for us to do more production domestically, um, but then also, um, for more production to be done domestically in a general sense. And, uh, I'll give an example. Um, recently I was looking at, uh, you know, developing and sourcing a metal frame, either steel or titanium. Um, we'll, we'll stick with steel. It's an easier example. So, um, called, uh, a few different outfits and, uh, well one, there isn't really anyone who's mass producing steel frames in the US When I say mass producing, like doing, you know, thousand of units at a go. Um, with the exception of maybe Kent. [00:48:09] steve: Detroit. [00:48:11] Track 1: Uh, Detroit bikes [00:48:13] steve: Mm-hmm. [00:48:14] Track 1: they, and they're serving as a contract manufacturer? [00:48:17] steve: Mm-hmm. [00:48:20] Track 1: Might ask for an intro at some point. Um, [00:48:22] steve: That's Tony Kirklands, [00:48:24] Track 1: oh, okay. [00:48:25] steve: who bought, um, he and his partner bought time, [00:48:30] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:48:30] steve: is making carbon frames in Europe somewhere. Slovenia, [00:48:36] Track 1: Okay. [00:48:36] steve: of those European companies, [00:48:37] Track 1: Yeah, [00:48:38] steve: Um, and then that company car, it's called Cardinal Bicycle Works, I think, uh, also bought Detroit. Uh, they're, they claim to be the biggest steel frame maker in the US and uh, they're making stuff under their own. Name and they're doing a couple other contract [00:48:58] Track 1: that. [00:48:58] steve: some, they made some Schwinn Varsities a couple years ago. I mean, I think that was only a few hundred units or a or so. But they actually, they brought Backy made, made Detroit? [00:49:11] Track 1: Well, one of the, the things that's great to hear, and I'm gonna follow up on that, um, one of the things that kept coming up as I was having conversations here was there are essentially two primary, um, sources, uh, brands that are selling, uh, tube sets. Unless you're sourcing factory direct outta somewhere in Asia, uh, I think you have colo. You have, uh, what Columbus some in some Reynolds. And one of, one of them has been struggling with supply and both of them are, are quite expensive in the US vis-a-vis what you can get comparable tube sets for in Asia. And so when you combine those two factors of both more expensive raw stock and the fact that you can't, you don't know it's going to be available and you only have two supply, two primary suppliers versus if I want to make, uh, a frame somewhere in Asia, I have. Countless tube suppliers now don't necessarily want to use just any of them, but even the, the higher end ones, of which there may be a handful, they still have the, all these other factories kind of nipping at their heels. And that, you know, drives innovation. That drives, uh, you know, them to build this sort of, um, you know, production facilities that can handle scale, that are responsive. Uh, they know if they can't deliver on a tight timeframe for a reasonable price, that someone else is gonna develop that capacity to do so. Um, and that goes across every single thing that you could want to source for a bicycle, whether it's something like a carbon component you want to develop. You have any number of facilities where you could co-develop that, that component. And they'll even provide the engineering, in some cases, they'll latize the tooling over the, over the units, which is to say, like, spread the cost of the tooling over the units, the, the tooling costs. You know, my tooling costs for a frame is on the order of like 8,000 bucks a size. . Um, and I could have that built into the price if I do enough volume. That's, you know, you combine all of these factors and, you know, going back to the issue of, of Taiwan, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that you're not seeing moves and mass just because you have such deep and interconnected supply chains there. And even like when you get your goods quoted, they quote it, um, not out of the factory. They deliver it to your door. And that's just expected. And when they say they're gonna deliver it, generally they're pretty on time. Um, particularly, you know, the, the, the better vendors out there, the more professional ones, the velo, uh, you know, velo makes not just saddles, but bar tape and they do most of the high-end stuff in the industry. Uh, still there are a couple competitors, but, um, and it's because they just do such a great job. Um, and that efficiency. And, uh, another example, I was sourcing stems years ago. and I was like, oh, I'm, yeah. I lived in a, I lived in China for a number of years. Uh, I bet you I can find a better deal somewhere in China. I couldn't, Taiwan had better pricing on a superior product. Um, and it's because Taiwan had, um, invested in, you know, factories like, uh, jd, um, their trade name is Trans X. [00:52:15] steve: mm-hmm. [00:52:15] Track 1: they manufacture for any number of brands. They did all of our, uh, cockpit stuff, uh, for thesis, and they just have a very well run production facility in these huge forging machines and really high quality tooling. And they can just crank out high quality 3D forg stems all day with that high quality and without a, a huge, with a less and less human intervention in that process. Um, and, you know, do it at a price that makes it such that, you know, there's no point in going somewhere else. Um, because most of the cost is not associated with the labor. [00:52:52] steve: Yeah. [00:52:53] Track 1: Um, so yeah, that, that makes sense. It'll be interesting. Uh, you know, I'm, as you know, I did my, my graduate studies in US-China relations, and so it's a situation I've been following quite closely. Um, I guess, uh, if something does happen there, uh, the availability of bike parks, it will be the, the least of everybody's issues, [00:53:13] steve: Yeah. Yeah, that's a thing. I mean, there, there won't be many parts of the economy that won't be affected, um, if something happens there. But, um, bike industry will not be an exception, [00:53:24] Track 1: now, [00:53:25] steve: um, except for maybe on the service part. Right. Still, uh, we can still maybe [00:53:31] Track 1: secondhand stuff will be, um, the secondary market will be booming, [00:53:35] steve: Yeah. [00:53:35] Track 1: so, [00:53:36] steve: up now by your, uh, by your HP cassettes now. Yeah. [00:53:43] Track 1: well, so to, you know, to wrap up here, um, what do you see going forward, um, from, and, and very open-ended question, uh, what are you excited about from a technology standpoint? What are you seeing, um, in terms of, uh, you know, innovative business models or distribution models or, uh, just trends in the, in industry more generally. [00:54:10] steve: Well, there's one word that we haven't used so far in this call. You like, [00:54:16] Track 1: Sure. [00:54:17] steve: you know, there's still, there's still some growth there, I think. Um, [00:54:21] Track 1: What do those stats look like right now? [00:54:23] steve: it's not good stats. There aren't any, I don't know. You know, you can just read the T leaves and see that, you know, there's been some discounting and there. Um, even some of the low price brands that were scaring the hell out of everybody a year ago, um, are now blowing out prices, which is not good news, but still, um, kind of suggests that the, uh, the, uh, demand has, has slowed a little bit. [00:54:51] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:54:52] steve: but you know, it's exciting to see, uh, the growth and the cargo bikes, you know, um, you know, I know Specialized finally did their public launch of their globe. The Globe this week. [00:55:02] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:55:03] steve: launched the Ecar bike a month or two ago. I think. there's some others coming around. Turn seems to be kicking ass. Um, And, uh, not to mention rad power. Um, so, you know, that's, that's still exciting. There's still growth potential there. Uh, you know, I don't think you're gonna get to European numbers where, you know, like in the Netherlands where, I don't know, or 70% of the bikes sold, there are e-bikes. Now, you know, we're in the US it's probably 12% or something. I don't know. not gonna get there. I've been saying that for years, but, you know, even if we go from 12% to 18%, that's, uh, a lot of growth. And it's also, um, you know, a high average selling price of these things. You know, [00:55:53] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:55:53] steve: to talk about Kent selling $89, 20, 20 inch wheel bikes to Walmart. But when you're talking about somebody, you know, when you know the low price leader is selling bikes for 1400 bucks, uh, e-bikes. [00:56:07] Track 1: Yeah. [00:56:08] steve: You know, and then, you know, and, and specialized just brought out their, you know, their discounted, affordable e cargo bike, which I think starts at 2,500 bucks or something. It's a big, it's a big difference there. [00:56:20] Track 1: Well, [00:56:22] steve: so, you know, Turin is selling these, you know, these little electric mini band bikes, uh, you know, for three, four or $5,000 regularly then, then another thousand dollars in accessories on top of it. Um, so, uh, not to be too focused on the dollars and cents here, but I am, I am from a business magazine, [00:56:43] Track 1: Sure. Yeah. [00:56:44] steve: um, so yeah, there's exciting and, uh, you know, yeah, there's, there's, it's, it's fun to see the growth in the gravel bikes. and uh, and the activity around that, uh, the way the events are going and the competition is, is really interesting. Um, [00:57:05] Track 1: And the, and the community dynamics in the gravel space too, it seems to have remained a lot more accessible even as you have more elite level events and so on, showing, showing up. You still have, you know, lots of local events and it's a, it's a version of cycling that is, well, it's a very versatile machine and it gets you off the road. Which addresses, uh, the, the thing that comes up in survey after survey as the biggest limiter, uh, for people getting on bikes, which is fear of cars, you know, the safety concerns. [00:57:39] steve: yeah, yeah. And I'm not sure what I think about that. I think it is more accessible than, you know, old school, you know, USA cycling, road racing, um, I guess, uh, but you know, last night, I mean, for me, I don't have a whole lot of interest personally in doing a lot of the events. Maybe a couple a year, but, you know, mostly I, what I like about gravel writing is just being able to go out and explore and. Um, ride by myself or with a, a couple friends, but not necessarily pin a number on. Even if I do pin a number on, it's not really to raise, it's just, uh, you know, an excuse to ride with some people and have some rest areas where I can get free food along the way, [00:58:21] Track 1: Yeah. [00:58:22] steve: of having to fill up my water bottles in a creek somewhere. So, um, but I don't know. I went to a, I went to a big gravel race, um, last spring and. It, it didn't look very accessible to me. You know, I saw a lot of people pulling up in Sprinter vans with a couple, you know, $8,000 bikes on the back bumper and, you know, the carbon wheels and, you know, there was a nice dinner out and it was during Covid, so everybody was eating outside and they had the streets blocked off. We're all sitting out on the tables on the street. And, uh, it was, it was kind of fun. It reminded me of, you know, no racing from back in the day. But, uh, but then, but then, yeah, I'm looking around and I'm seeing a lot of pretty well-healed middle class [00:59:06] Track 1: Yep. [00:59:07] steve: people with nice cars and carbon bikes, with carbon wheels and a whole lot of money invested. And I'm like, I, [00:59:15] Track 1: Well, and [00:59:16] steve: accessibility of this. [00:59:17] Track 1: well, and, and yes, that absolutely exists. And that's a, that's a perfectly fine thing. Um, you know, there's, there's a place for everybody. I, I think what I'm referring to more is, well, one, what you're describing as like going out solo or with some friends and, you know, going out on the road, leaving from your back door and then going out on adventure and like experiencing your area from a different vantage point. Um, there's also kind of along those lines, uh, the bike packing phenomenon, which to some degree is a little bit like the s u V phenomenon, that people are buying bikes that they could go bike packing with, um, but not necessarily doing it, but you, but you see more and more of that people doing an overnight or a couple days or something. [00:59:57] steve: Mm. [00:59:58] Track 1: but then lots of just, uh, at least here in New England, I've been to a few very kind of small, intimate types of events. Maybe you have a, a couple hundred people show up and there's a, a, you know, a, a wood fired, um, uh, pizza oven going and, you know, local, uh, brewery supporting, and it's to support, uh, some local cause and maybe they have a podium. Um, but, but not really. It's like, that's not the point [01:00:26] steve: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I think, uh, the whole, the way the competition goes, um, you know, I don't know how many people are interested in the, and even, uh, from a spectator point of view in the racers, I, I, a few people are, I mean, we [01:00:44] Track 1: It's, it's not, it's not super interesting [01:00:47] steve: right? I mean, I, I'm a nerd. I mean, I'll, I'll, man, I, last week was, I, I was watching Melan, I mean, not Melan. Perry Neese and Toreno Rko, you know, back to back every morning. I mean, I'm a total bike race nerd. I love it. You know, I did used to be the editor of T com, uh, and I couldn't even tell you who the top gravel racers are, you know, in the US and I don't know how many people care. I know, you know, we at outside@beonnews.com and cycling tips.com. We write a bit about that. Betsy Welch is doing a great job, but, I, I don't know how many, you know, I'm, I'm interested in doing gravel events. I'm interested in the gravel equipment. when I hear about an event, I think, oh, that might be nice to go to some year. I'd like to do that and see what it's like to ride in that part of the country on those kind of roads. Uh, but do I want to read, uh, a 2000 word interview with the guy that won the pro race? Uh, maybe not. I dunno. [01:01:55] Track 1: I'm, I'm with you. I think that the, um, the more interesting story is the, the story of your own experience of the events. You know, you go and you do something that is long and maybe has some technical sections, and you are, um, linking up with different groups along the way, unlike, say, a, a cross-country race. Um, so cross-country race, you tend to be, you know, it's a, it's a time trial in which you have some people in the way sometimes, um, and road, [01:02:20] steve: in the way. [01:02:21] Track 1: yeah. and then Ro [01:02:23] steve: usually the one that's in the way of some other people, but yeah. [01:02:26] Track 1: Yeah. Um, that, that was my discipline back in the day. Uh, but with gravel, you have, I mean, uh, I know quite a few people, myself included. At this point. I'm no longer. I no longer do these events to compete, I do it as a way of connecting with folks, like being out on a ride and you end up just, uh, linking up with different groups and having this kind of shared ordeal of slogging up that hill with a group or riding into the wind with another group and, you know, making friends along the way. And those are the types of dynamics that, you know, I have, I haven't done a ton of the, um, you know, the, the big, the big banner events for, you know, gravel series and so on. Uh, but those are the dynamics that I'm seeing at the, again, these more intimate, local types of events that I think when I talk about accessibility, that's, that's where, um, my heart is, you know, things that are much more about bringing people together and, and providing a shared experience, a platform for a shared experience that people, uh, find, um, meaningful and not just a competition. [01:03:28] steve: Yeah. And just from a, you know, from an event point of view, just the practicality of it now. I mean, we're, we're, we're losing paved roads where we can have a race. I mean, even just watching, watching the two races in Europe last week, how, how many of 'em they have to go through these damn traffic circles? I mean, the, the last 10 kilometers are scary now cause there's a, there's a traffic circle every five blocks. [01:03:51] Track 1: Yeah, [01:03:52] steve: uh, all these, you know, the road furniture is just getting worse and worse. And that's been happening in the for years. You know, there's all sorts that had to be canceled just because of all the development and the traffic and road designs make it impossible. The road there anymore. [01:04:08] Track 1: yeah, [01:04:09] steve: mogul Bismark circuit outside of Boulder is just unable now. Because of all the traffic circles [01:04:16] Track 1: yeah. Um, Boulder's a very, boulder's a very particular place. Um, you've been there for how many years now? [01:04:25] steve: Uh, about 15. [01:04:27] Track 1: Yeah, uh, I haven't been going there quite that long, but, um, I did do the whole kind of dirt bag, private tier pro thing at one point. Um, so got to ride at a bunch of different places and obviously for my work, I'm traveling a fair amount and the, um, the number of strong riders you have where you are is pretty outstanding. It's kind of hard to go out on a ride and not cross paths with some past or current national champion or Olympian. Um, and you also have, um, unique in the US is some of the best bike infrastructure anywhere. And that actually to maybe we close up the conversation with, um, you know, you had talked about how. you know, we could say modal share, uh, the share of, uh, trips taken by bike or the number of bikes being sold, um, not just for recreation, but for utility. You know, e-bikes primarily fall into a utility, uh, space with the exception of, you know, some performance mountain bikes and so on. But the, uh, you were saying how Europe has seen far more adoption. Uh, what do you see as the differences between the European and US markets and, you know, the, the things that would have to happen here, uh, to see greater adoption of bicycles as a modality for, you know, not just, uh, enthusiast riders, but recreation and, and, you know, more importantly as a, I

Gary caught up with CEDIA's Jason McGraw to talk all about this year's expo. The 2022 show will take place Sept. 29 – Oct. 1. By the way, it's no longer just a home tech conference. Since being acquired by Emerald Expositions, CEDIA Expo has added work-from-home and resimercial and wellness categories — plus it signed a […]

The 16:9 PODCAST IS SPONSORED BY SCREENFEED – DIGITAL SIGNAGE CONTENT There is a whole pile of back seat driving happening lately in the pro AV and digital signage communities about how to run a trade show in the COVID-19 era, and much of the focus has squarely been on Dave Labuskes, the CEO of AVIXA, which runs InfoComm and co-owns the even larger trade show ISE. The show is happening in about a month in Orlando, and with other big trade shows saying never mind for 2021, there are endless questions and suggestions about the prospects of the show even happening. It will, says Labuskes, unless there are measures like government-mandated closures. Given that the show is in Florida, that's probably not going to happen. Labuskes has done some frank interviews lately that went into deep detail about InfoComm and COVID, and the business. I spoke with Labuskes late last week and did not see the value in rehashing and revisiting a lot of what he said, so in our chat we talk a little about how things will come off and why. But we spend a lot more time on bigger picture stuff about how trade shows fit, and whether a niche industry like digital signage can find a well-defined home and community at big, omni AV shows like Infocomm and ISE. Subscribe to this podcast: iTunes * Google Play * RSS TRANSCRIPT Mr Labuskes, thank you for joining me. I wanted to get into a number of things, but I also didn't want to just rehash some recent conversations you had in an hour long interview last week with Tim Albright from AVnation that went into a lot of frank discussion about where InfoComm is at and everything associated with that, but I can't cCompletely ignore that, and I just wanted to ask, where are things now , has anything changed in the last week since I watched that interview?  Dave Labuskes: Mr. Haynes, it's good to be here. There have been a couple of other events that have announced cancellations, but there's been nothing that's changed in AVIXA's policy with regards to InfoComm. We still see a runway to a fantastic event with fantastic people conducting fantastic business. It's been described as being the last trade show standing this fall, but that's not really true. There's all kinds of events going on here, there, and everywhere.  Dave Labuskes: Yeah. There's a lot that's described that isn't necessarily really true, David. But yeah there's events and trade shows happening every day, all around the world, and I'm actually a little confused. For an industry that is really based on overcoming challenges and doing the impossible and making things happen that nobody believed could actually happen, there is that sort of a sentiment that trade shows can't take place right now and that just simply is not true. They're taking place every day.  So I have mixed opinions personally. I was supposed to be doing a mixer down at InfoComm and decided not to do that, and that wasn't really so much about I don't think InfoComm should even happen or anything else, it was just as simply a fact of, I didn't quite see how a cocktail party, where everybody was wearing a mask and being asked to stand six feet apart would work terribly well and the optics were weird.  It's one of those things where I could see a trade show happening, but I didn't see that happening well, and we don't need to get into all of that. I'm curious more about whether or not you're enjoying all the armchair opinions from people who say what you should be doing, but have never actually run a tradeshow?  Dave Labuskes: Before I had this job, I was a partner at a large architectural engineering firm, and one of the gentlemen that was on the search committee that was interviewing me for this job, James Ford, owner of Ford AV and I'll never forget where he was sitting in the boardroom, he leaned forward and said, “Dave, you've got a really good gig, like why would you want this job?” And I'm like that's a great question, and I try to answer it, and he's like, “But Dave, here's the thing: You're running one of the largest consulting practices in the world and if you have a management meeting and you decide to go liveleft, then everybody's going to leave that meeting and they're going to go left, and the jobs that you're interviewing for you and your team are going to decide to go left, and then 50,000 people are going to tell you, you should go right!” I actually celebrate varied opinions. I do think a lot of people express an expertise that is perhaps inflated in their own perception. Trade shows, they're a complicated industry. I've been doing this now for eight years and I have people on my team that have forgotten twice what I'll ever know. The interplay between the various different constraints, the challenges that people throw out there as though they're simple challenges. Yeah, they're a little frustrating, but I signed up for it. Nobody made me do this job. I was forewarned, so maybe I'm the one that has an exaggerated impression of my expertise. Is part of the problem just simply that it's Florida and Florida is this eternally weird place at the best of times, but it's got a particular problem and people all the way up to the governor of the state who don't seem to recognize that, “Hey, maybe there's a bit of a problem happening here.”? Dave Labuskes: Yeah. I think I'll be a little more politically correct than that, and it was nice for you to try it, but it isn't my first rodeo here.  (Laughter) I wasn't trying to bait you. I just think that's a big part of it and the people, the armchair opinion makers who say why don't you just move it or why didn't you just do it in another city? There's a little bit of baggage associated with doing that but just simply speaking, it's a part of the country that has a particular exacerbated problem, but doesn't seem to want to recognize that it has an exacerbated problem. Dave Labuskes: It all comes from the jurisdictions and it all comes down to point of reference, right? You can also just say, is it the problem that the event is in the United States, right? Because if you look at the United States and compare the United States to other countries, we're not necessarily getting a straight-A report card. What I have said, and I know we don't want to have the same conversation I've had already with others, is that I don't think the brush that should be used in making that decision is Florida. I think the brush that we should use in painting that picture is Orange County. There's parts of California that may or may not be behaving in the same fashion you or I would do. So I think you have to look at where are you going to fly into, where you're going to be, where are you going to have dinner, where are you going to sleep? Those types of things, and when you get to that stage orange county this morning had 79.4% of their population over the age 18 having had one shot of the vaccine. They've got a mask order that was issued by the mayor strongly recommending that masks be worn inside any public space. They've got plummeting hospitalization rates, death rates, positivity rates at 12.4%, I believe.  So, I think, unfortunately the world and this country and all of the states have this polarization thing going on, and yeah, would it be more comfortable for people to attend an event somewhere else that are looking from afar and don't take time to do all that research? Probably. The headline, the abbreviated picture, is challenging, but I do think that there are people that are going to make a decision that attending a trade show weighed against other factors just isn't for them this year, and I think they'd make that decision regardless of where it is.  Yeah. I guess that's the other thing that you didn't know you were signing up for was having an extensive ability to talk in genealogical terms. Dave Labuskes: This is a true story, David. Last year, I came home from the office, and at dinner I said to my wife and son I spent an hour today reading a scientific study about the efficacy of washing your hands with cold water versus hot water, and that is not something I ever anticipated taking place in my career, I will admit that. (Laughter) By the way, it is just as good. You just don't tend to wash them as long because it's less comfortable, but...  I'm just impressed I was able to say epidemiology.  Dave Labuskes: Happy with that. These are words that were not part of our vocabulary two years ago, right?  Just drafting off of some of that: CEDIA which AVIXA has a relationship with because you co-own ISC had their event last week or the week before in Indianapolis and I won't go into how that went business-wise or anything else, but I'm curious if you had AVIXA folks there and did they see how things were done? I know they had signage and kind of cues on whether you are comfortable with people coming close and all that sort of stuff. Did those things work?  Were there things that you learned from that you can take away and apply to InfoComm?  Dave Labuskes: First part of the question: No, we didn't have anybody from AVIXA at that event that I'm aware of. Not that I know of, but I'm sure there were people there that were AVIXA members. We do have a close relationship with CEDIA. Obviously we have a partnership over a very large joint venture that owns and operates ISC and ISR and DSS. The show itself is owned by Emerald Expositions, and we have our conversational talking relationship with Emerald as well. In fact I have a call next week with Emerald to talk through lessons learned.  I was in Louisville, Kentucky a couple of weeks ago at a SISO conference, which is the Society of Independent Show Operators. So it's Emerald, Informa, and mostly the for-profit trade show organizers and AVIXA was invited to attend. The industry of trade show organizers and meeting planners and event planners, we've joined arms and we recognize that this is a problem for all of us that we have to share best practices with, we have to share learnings with, we have to talk about what works and doesn't work. It's kinda like the AV industry and as I'm learning more about it, the digital signage industry where people compete, but they also have a comradery where a rising tide lifts all ships kind of a thing, and so I think all trade show operators are working through this, associations as well are famously collaborating with regards to sharing information and learning and helping each other. So that's a good part of the pandemic.  I would imagine one of the things that all these organizations collectively learned, if they didn't already know it, is that the whole virtual trade show thing just really doesn't work. Does it? Dave Labuskes: It certainly didn't work in v1.0 of 2020. I think v1.5, and we're starting to get closer to 2.0, I think there's hope for it. The best visual I saw over the last 18 months is talking about books versus movies, and you don't convert a book to a movie by putting it on a podium and filming somebody turning the pages. And I think that probably is a closely apt description of what we all did with our first version of the virtual events. But I think you can tell a story, very effectively in print or in film, leveraging and celebrating the differences of the media.  Where I am at now and where AVIXA is driving towards, and you'll see more developments about this in the next couple months is more about how AVIXA delivers on its mission, leveraging physical  events and digital platforms, and how do they interface and interact with each other? How do they mutually benefit each other? What's good in one, that's not good in the other? Not a lot of good, special effects when you're reading a book, but a lot of great imagination when you're reading a book. Not a lot of ability to be character development through introspection in a movie, but it's really easy to do that when you're reading. I think if you look at education, you look at delivery of information from provider to consumer, that can be done pretty effectively digitally. I think about human interaction and the break time during class is almost impossible to create digitally. That doesn't mean it is impossible. So I see a lot of assumptions that we made in order to achieve X, we needed to convene people face-to-face being challenged. But I also think that all of the pundits that got online in March and April of last year and said, this is the end of face-to-face, and we're going to be digital for the rest of our lives, have seen that they were probably not right with that either.  I think the one thing that I took away, or what I have enjoyed about these virtual events is the ability to attend round tables panels presentations on demand. So I don't need to be somewhere or sit at a certain place, set aside things then at 10:00 AM, I'm going to watch this. Just the simple fact that I got stuff going on. I can't do this today or right now, that I could click on it and see. Yeah, somebody from Brand X explaining this to me on my terms, and if I'm bored, I just click out, I don't have to stand up and walk out of the room and embarrass the presenter or anything like that. That part I like. Dave Labuskes: I do too, and that's the irony of it is. If one of the things that all of us like is the absence of time and geography constraints, right? So it doesn't matter if that panel discussions take place in London or Nova Scotia or Orlando, you can still receive the outcome of that panel.  Why are we saying that they should be organized and delivered between 9:00 AM and 4:00 PM Eastern time on Tuesday and Wednesday of next week? That's where I get to this. I think it's more about a digital presence and digital community, a place where people interact when it's appropriate for them to interact, where they can organize their interaction times. I'm old enough to have been in chat rooms on Prodigy and AOL and you remember you would organize with people like I'm going to be on at eight o'clock tonight for an hour, because you can only afford an hour. Because we were charged by the minute, and then I think that's what we have to recognize. So in that regard, I'm really excited about the fact that I'm not a trade show organizer, instead I'm an association that is committed to an industry and an industry community, and what I can do is build that community both digitally and physically.  What do you think of the suggestion that the days of the big macro show are cloudy and that regionalized events make more sense, so an InfoComm Southwest, an ISE UK, that sort of thing? And granted that was tried a little bit in the past year, but that was out of necessity as opposed to design.  Dave Labuskes: Yeah, I'm intrigued by it. But I think the loudest proponents of it are the attendees, not the exhibitors and the attendees don't pay. Doing ten small shows only costs a little less than doing one big show or less than doing then ten times doing one big show. The cost of doing a show has a fixed amount. Even in the smallest show, you're going to pay an X and then get to the big show, you may only be paying 2X where if you're doing a regional show, like 10 times, you are close to 10X, and your ROI on each of those events is smaller because your audience is small.  Now that's using all the old rules. So if we go back to the last question, if I can segment an audience for an exhibitor and say, I'm going to bring people that have spending authority over half a million dollars that have a project next three months, it's going to require a high-end audio system. That's going to change that algebra, and so I don't think you throw it out the window, but economics has a factor in these things and it's easy to say I would rather go to a small event in Nashville, but the problem is I have to find somebody to pay for it, and even if you say I'm happier to go to a small event in Nashville, I bet you don't want to spend $195 for a ticket to go to that event?  I get the hunger for it. I get the desire for it, but I don't see a business model around it right now. We've never been successful at small events being profitable. There have been good strategies like, before ISE launched. We did small roadshow events from country to country, it was before my time, but I hear stories from the old timers about the amazing sort of experience of going from hotel room or hotel conference to hotel conference across from Warsaw to Budapest to Rome type thing. And we've done them in advance of launching our Bangkok show. We did it in advance of launching our Mumbai show, but those become feeders to a larger event that has a more sustainable business model. We did a lot of what we used to call round tables, for example, we did the AVIXA round table in Baltimore where you'd have 15, 20, maybe 30 people come to them, and so you were spending a lot of money on an event that served 15, 20 or 30 people, and we just felt like there were better ways of spending the industry's money than that.  The demise of Digital Signage Expo certainly raised the eyebrows at AVIXA and got you guys thinking, although you've always had digital signage as a component, you've had pavilions for many years, but there was an opportunity and a sense that something needed to fill that void. Granted, it's been refilled to some degree since then, but the show hasn't happened yet so we'll see how that comes off.  How do you build up the digital signage affinity for InfoComm? Cause I've gone for many years, but I go to have a look at the gear. I'm not a gear head, but I write about it and everything else, but I don't really see it as an end-user show where a big retailer, those kinds of people are going to come to that they maybe they send their gearheads, but more likely it's the integrators that sell into big retail and so on are there are there, so how do you make all that kind of come together over the next couple of years? Dave Labuskes: Boy, there's so much in that question, David. We should talk more often, I enjoy this. Yes, it is an unfortunate demise and it didn't get folks in the AVIXA thinking. Yes, we've been looking at the digital signage industry for a long time. I do think it's a community within the larger industry that needs to be celebrated, and that's that other point with regards to small regional shows versus big shows. I think we see lots more shows within shows taking place, and I think that's probably the right solution, and I'm biased. I think AVIXA has the right place to build a home within a home for the digital signage community.  First of all: there was this interesting dynamic between the association and the show operator, right? From an association perspective AVIXA has been having conversations with DSF, with DS-LATAM, with digital signage of Asia, and the various different entities in Europe. When you move from our association to association, one of the ways I think I actually described it to Rich Ventura, he and I were talking probably years ago and it's like you and I, David, are best friends, but our dads owns the competing gas stations on the corner, and so we can go to school and everything and be friends there but when we came home there's limits.  That was kinda how I felt like it was and I felt like there's a window there to not have that dynamic. Now, some of that's changed and I respect Questex. I respect Paul and don't know him well, but I know him and I've had conversations with him and he's a smart guy and I believe he's committed to delivering a successful event. I think it's being honest, looking at what does an organization want, what is the community best one? And making honest agreements and commitments to each other, and then keeping them. There are advantages to working together, and I think the end goal is that “home within a home” and “a community within a community.”  I think the challenge and opportunity for digital signage and InfoComm is the scale of the InfoComm show and the specificity and the heart and relationship with the digital signage community, and I think if we work together, we can build that home within a home. I think it can be more than a guest room. It can be an in-law apartment. It can be a place where it's identified and that's, yeah, I'm disappointed that you're not going to be there, and I know the mixture is just one manifestation of that home within a home, and we look forward to being able to do it in the future.  Absolutely. One of the logistical problems or mechanical problems, so to speak, with a big show like an InfoComm is: yes, you've created these pavilions through the years of digital signage pavilion and some of the vendors have been in that, designated zone, so to speak, but the biggest players are the display manufacturers, and they've always had their spots, their Primo spots, and they're serving a whole bunch of audiences at InfoComm, not just the digital signage people. So how do you figure out a way to create a show within a show when you've got Sony in the front row, Samsung's got a giant booth in the middle of the hall and so on. You're never going to be able to herd them all into one hall, so to speak?  Dave Labuskes: Yeah, so what do you do then? I think what you have to do and we're down to the details of tactics, right? But I think you start to curate attendees' journeys. You use content as the honey to attract and people will come where content is and content can be delivered where people are, and that's the challenge of starting a trade show, but we've done that. We know how to form a trade show and it takes time and it takes continual feeding until it becomes a self-feeding cycle, and then you have to create a journey that is guided a bit so the attendees that are coming from retail or the attendees that are coming from the advertising agencies can get to where they will be able to extract value and some of that will require tour guides, not maps and serendipity, because it's too big to just let somebody lose, but we have that problem now with end users in general at the show, you described as gearheads, but about 40% of the attendees at a typical InfoComm are end user buyers. It's part of what makes that show so valuable to exhibitors.  A lot of them are brought there by channel members. The consultants are bringing their customers, the integrators are bringing their customers. But a lot of them are brought there by us too, with promoting them and developing conference content that would be of interest to them, creating a nucleus of community. It's all very explicit, but it doesn't happen by chance. There are hosted buyers that are brought in to shows around the world. There are groups that are sponsored. There are other associations that are partnered with. Richard runs our Asian subsidiary. He's a genius at identifying influential associations within the geographies and partnering with them to offer programs. Organizations like the Indian Architects Association are partnered with our InfoComm Mumbai event, and they are holding content conferences for architects in conjunction with our event. All of our channels want architects at it. Those types of strategies are part of the town and the team that works on these. Last question, looking ahead a few months to ISE and it's hard to do the crystal ball thing, but I gather things are calmer in Spain. I don't hear very many people at all saying, hell no, we're not going to Barcelona or anything else, maybe that'll bubble up, who knows? But is ISC in Barcelona going to be normal-ish? Dave Labuskes: Yes, I think so. Again, like you said, the crystal balls are not crystal clear and now, after the last series of conversations, I think I'm going to put the crystal ball into the same place where I put “pivot” and “agile” and “unprecedented” but yeah, the biggest indicator that you would have about and event like ISC at this stage five months out is sold show floor space, right?  I don't think we've even opened registration for attendees yet, and show floor sales are, I think they're probably about 8% off of 2020. I guess there's no such thing as quoting me because we're recording this, but it's within that ballpark of the size of the last event at the Rye, which is, really the last event to compare it to. So if it's 90% of that size, 80% of that size, I think that's, that absolutely fits into your technical definition of normal.  And there were lots of people who said, because you're going to Barcelona, as awesome a place as it is, it may mean you see a slight drop because people who might go to ISC in Amsterdam, because they can drive there, maybe would not go all the way to Barcelona?  Dave Labuskes: Yeah, but there's other people that are going to drive to Barcelona that wouldn't have driven to Amsterdam. And yeah not a hundred percent a repeat audience, but… Well, I'm not driving to Barcelona.  Dave Labuskes: Yeah, me neither. (Laughter) That's those armchair spectators that you talked about earlier, right? We did the homework to make a determination about that, and we love the Rye. We would love to have stayed at the Rye, but the Rye isn't big enough to hold the show as it was moving forward in the future and it was starting to have a negative impact on attendee experience and you start to have those different factors impact a show and reach the value of the show.  I'll just be happy if I can find my way around.  Dave Labuskes: Yeah, it's a beautiful city. I'll tell you what it's like. It's the opposite of the Rye. It was one of the things I joked with Mike about. Finally I figured out how to get through the Eye without getting lost, and now we've decided to move the show.  Yeah, me too.  All right. I appreciate you taking some time with me. I suspect you're a busy fellow these days. Dave Labuskes: Never too busy for you, sir. Congratulations on your recent deal. I'm really happy for you.  Thank you!

Joe has weathered some CRAZY storms the last few years. From losing me as a co-worker, to pandemics, Joe shares what planning events has been like. Seriously though, Joe is just a good guy, and if you don't know the man behind the show you'll enjoy this episode! WPPIPhoto PlusSue Bryce EducationSupport the show (https://www.thegroupp.com/)

Jason McGraw, Group Vice President of CEDIA Expo and KBIS for Emerald Expositions, spares a few moments from his packed schedule to chat about the work being done to prepare for the first in-person CEDIA Expo in two years. The show is set for September 1-3 in Indy.

If you have been to Pizza Expo then you definitely know who Pete Lachapelle is! In this episode, Siler and Nick have a great conversation with Pete about Pizza Expo, where it has been and where it is going. Here is a little more about Pete - Graduating with a marketing degree from Boston College in 1978, Pete has been in the publishing business since 1979. Having served as publisher on 12 different titles, he has worked for some of the largest trade publishing companies in the country and has focused on the food industry for more than 35 years. He began selling ad space for Bakery Production & Marketing in 1983 and was named publisher in 1988. There, he built the magazine into one of the largest industrial food publications in the country. In 1998, he decided to take on the challenge of redesigning and reorganizing Pizza Today into the magazine you see today. In 2000, Pete was named president of Macfadden Protech LLC, where he was responsible for International Pizza Expo, Pizza Today, the National Association of Pizzeria Operators (NAPO) and the School of Pizzeria Management. Most recently, his group has developed Pizza & Pasta Expo, Int'l Artisan Bakery Expo and Artisan Bakery East and the soon-to-be launched Pizza Expo 365, an online resource platform which will represent the Crossroads of the Industry. Pete is also a founding member of the National Restaurant Association's Pizzeria Industry Council with the goal of increasing the success rate of independent and multi-unit pizzerias. Today, Pete is the Global Brand Director for Emerald Expositions' Food Group with the mission to expand the Food Group's footprint throughout the artisan foodservice community.

En esta ocasión platiqué con Laura Barrera, quien tiene veinticinco años de experiencia en la industria de exposiciones y congresos. Es especialista en el desarrollo de estrategias comerciales y mercadológicas para exposiciones y eventos especializados. Ha sido consultora para organizadores internacionales como: MEDTRADE – Emerald Expositions. MESSE FRANKFURT – Industria Textil y del Vestido. REED EXHIBITIONS – Industria Automotriz Actualmente es GROUP SHOW DIRECTOR para Tarsus México.

Last week, Emerald Expositions, the owner of Photo District News (PDN), announced that PDN would no longer publish new content online or in print. The magazine was a staple of the professional photography industry, particularly for advertising and commercial photography. Their articles covered a wide range of topics from pricing to major campaigns to the venerable PDN 30 list. In addition, PDN produced a number of photo contests including the PDN Annual.In this episode of Vision Slightly Blurred, Sarah and Allen discuss the climate that makes it nearly impossible for niche print publications to exist, what PDN could have done to potentially thwart its demise, and ideas for the future of PDN 30.

My guest is Content Director for Emerald Expositions, the group responsible for Photography conferences WPPI and Photo Plus along with magazines PDN and Rangefinder. Please welcome Arlene Evans. Topics include discontinuing PDN magazine, Rangefinder shifting to an all-digital content hub with the WPPI exclusive edition distributed at the show, greater integration between Rangefinder and WPPI, and the state of the photography industry as a whole. Be sure to let us know if you have any thoughts or questions in the comments section. We do our best to answer all questions in a timely manner. You can be the next guest on our podcast Do you have an idea for a topic or want to hear from your favorite photographer or influencer in our industry? Send an email to Vanelli at v@photofocus.com with the subject line of INFOCUS INTERVIEW IDEA. Then write a brief description of your topic or idea. If you are recommending someone, please include their name, contact information and state if you would like to be a guest host. Thanks for listening! This InFocus Interview Show episode is brought to you by our partners, Lume Cube and Drobo. If you like these InFocus Interviews, please consider supporting them and sharing these links with your friends!

Karalynn Sprouse, Executive Vice President Emerald Expo for the General Merchandise, Sourcing and Industrial sectors, talks with Regina McGee about her career and business as well as the latest trends they’re seeing in the industry.

The International WELL Building Institute, ASID and Emerald Expositions will host The WELL Conference in Scottsdale, AZ. Listen now about the inaugural event's details, including dates. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/interiorsandsources/support

New year, new decade, new show! We invited Brian Pagel, Executive VP, Emerald Expositions and Amy Hornby, KBIS Show Director to join us on #KBTalks to give us a peek into what’s new and exciting for KBIS 2020, including special events and show floor programming, plus a very special announcement about our new one-day conference. kbis.com designtechconnection.com

It's been 2 years since Emerald Expositions acquired CEDIA Expo and much has changed or evolved, as Brian Pagel, Executive Vice President of Emerald Expositions discusses with Katye in this episode. From the Design + Connection pavilion and tour, to the Smart Stage sessions like TechBites and TechStarters, plus a convention center full of the most compelling residential tech you'll find, CEDIA Expo never disappoints. Download, tune-in, and listen, especially if you plan to attend CEDIA Expo or are considering it! #avtweeps #cediaexpo #kmbpodcasts @CEDIA @CEDIAExpo

Two parts again in this one: David Thomas (Momentum Group) and Carol Campbell (Technology Insider Group, among others) tell us all about stuff to do, see, eat, and drink in and around Denver, and Brian Pagel of Emerald Expositions tells us what's new and different on the CEDIA Expo floor in 2019. Early Bird Special pricing for CEDIA Expo 2019 has been extended through June 21. REGISTER HERE: https://www.cediaexpo.com/ For more on Thomas and Campbell: http://www.momentumreps.com/ http://technologyinsidergroup.com/  

Inside Jewelry Trade Shows & Marketing With Liz Kantner, Curator & Designer Consultant for the Premier Show Liz Kantner is the designer consultant to rising, independent designers for Emerald Exposition’s jewelry trade shows, JA New York, and is heading up their debut Premier Show in Las Vegas, May 30 through June 3rd, 2019. A few of the designers attending the show have been guests on Jewelry Navigator Podcast, like Samantha Jackson of Heavenly Vices Fine Jewelry, and Kate Hubley of K8Jewelry. Other designers featured are Emily Kuvin Jewelry, and Debra Halperin of May Came Home Jewelry, as well as industry insiders, Roger and Rachel Dery of Gem Legacy, and Roger Dery Gems. Liz had extensive experience with digital marketing before she started her journey in the jewelry industry. She moved to Denver from Philadelphia, and answered a Craig’s List ad for a social media and marketing position with Todd Reed Jewelry. She advanced to marketing manager for Todd Reed. She compared her time at Todd Reed to a master’s program in luxury marketing and the jewelry industry.There, she covered all aspects of marketing, while connecting them with sales strategy. With a large staff of experienced jewelers, she familiarized with jewelry design and fabrication processes. Since her time at Todd Reed, Liz has moved back to the East Coast. She found her current roll with Emerald Expositions after the unfortunate and untimely passing of Cindy Edelstein, the former curator and mentor to designers featured in the jewelry shows represented by Emerald Expositions. Liz does her best to follow in the steps of Cindy by nurturing new and rising jewelry designers featured in her shows. Her drive to serve the designers  in the shows she curates is inspiring. Besides sharing her experience as a new shop owner in Asheville, NC, we discuss how designers can use the shift in retail trends to their advantage through trade shows and marketing. You can find Liz on Instagram@liz_kantner Premier@premier.shows Watch their feeds for exciting coverage of the exclusive Premier Show in Las Vegas! Email her at elizabeth.kantner@gmail.com for questions regarding future trade shows and her consulting services. The sponsor for this podcast is the Spring Fling Jewelry & Accessory Guide, featuring gifts perfect for the special events and occasions in spring, like father’s day, graduations, anniversaries, weddings, and birth gifts. I feature some of my favorite designers, many of whom have been guests on the podcast, like CRASH Jewelry, Mary van der Aa, Emily Kuvin Jewelry, Hania Kuzbari, Sarah Michikos, Nayla Shami,and MINTON. You can find the guide under the Special Features tab in the main menu on my website or click here https://jewelrynavigator.com/spring-fling-jewelry-accessory-gift-guide/ Thanks so much for joining me today - I know you have a choice in what you listen to, and if you like jewelry, you’re in for a treat - so sit back, relax, and enjoy the episode! One more thing! Do you have jewelry questions, or are you an emerging jewelry designer who needs a boost? Future Jewelry Navigator Podcasts are in the works, and scheduling is open for a short time. Reach out to me with questions and queries at brenna@jewelrynavigator.com.

Today I have something a bit different and special to offer you--Two fabulous guests instead of one talking about one of my favorite subjects and I know yours too--healthcare interior design and environments for aging! I had the pleasure of talking to Kristin D. Zeit - publisher of Healthcare Design and Environments for Aging magazines, and Jennifer Kovacs Silvis, editor-in-chief of Healthcare Design and Environments for Aging magazines at Emerald Expositions. A national award-winning journalist, Jennifer Kovacs Silvis oversees the day-to-day operation of the B2B trade publications that serve as the premier sources of information and inspiration for professionals involved in the planning, design, and construction of healthcare facilities and senior living communities. Jennifer is also a key contributor to the planning and production of the brands’ live events, including the annual Healthcare Design Expo & Conference, HCD Forum, and Environments for Aging Expo & Conference. She’s been with HCD and EFA for nine years and is the former editor-in-chief of construction magazine Healthcare Building Ideas. A veteran reporter and editor, Jennifer is a firm believer in the connection between good design and better outcomes. Kristin D. Zeit is publisher (and former editor-in-chief) of Healthcare Design and Environments for Aging, the leading magazine and event brands serving architects, interior designers, providers and operators in these industries. She has covered the commercial architecture and design industries in the media for the past 13 years, including the hospitality and retail sectors. She has a master’s degree in magazine journalism from Northwestern University’s Medill School of Journalism and her magazines have won numerous awards during her tenure for excellence in writing, reporting, and design. She also launched and manages the HCD Forum, an invitation-only education and networking event for high-level professionals in the healthcare design field. My conversation with Jen and Kristin was lighthearted and fun, and filled with that mission driven enthusiasm familiar to everyone in the healthcare design and environments for aging industry. I loved learning about the latest news in healthcare and hospitality and some of the fabulous design details of senior living design projects that are popping up in cities across the country. You can learn more about Kristin Zeit and Jennifer Kovacs Silvis, Healthcare Design and Environments for Aging by visiting https://www.hcdmagazine.com and https://www.efamagazine.com/. Thank you to our industry partner The Center For Health Design! You can learn more about the incredible research, advocacy, and education work The Center For Health Design is doing at http://healthdesign.org, and you can gain access to an amazing, prolific collection of healthcare design resources by becoming a Center For Health Design affiliate. And finally, thank you to The American Academy of Healthcare Interior Designers for their support of this show! Find out more about their certification program at http://aahid.org. In this episode you will learn: The step by step process for working with a niche publication like HCD and EFA to gain attention for a project, especially if you’ve never done it before. What worries these two smart women about the future of healthcare design and how many designers are already aware of it. The excitement of the future of healthcare design, best practices and examples of how these projects create a positive environment for patients, families and staff. What makes for a great educational event at a conference, including selecting speakers who share the good stuff with the bad. Tips for thriving as an event sponsor or trade show exhibitor. Why healthcare design is important to Kristin and Jennifer may or may not surprise you. How hospitality and healthcare are merging to create as Jennifer says, a “hospital has to be hospitable”. Learn about the exciting projects in Environments for Aging that are changing the face of senior living communities for the better. Examples of memorable stories and projects in HCD and EFA. The process of HCD and EFA competitions and award ceremonies, and how winners are selected. Important save the dates for the next HDE (Healthcare Design Expo and Conference) and EFA (Environments for Aging Expo and Conference). FEATURED PRODUCT: KRION + K-LIFE Porcelanosa’s KRION® Solid Surface Material is made out of two-thirds natural minerals and a low percentage of high-resistance resins. KRION® is available in an array of colors, can be thermocurved or backlit, and is antibacterial – making it a perfect product for the healthcare industry. KRION® is also highly resistant to impacts and external elements (such as fire, chemicals, and frost), and is easy to clean and maintain. Inspired by the properties of photocatalytic materials, Porcelanosa has evolved their KRION® Solid Surface material called K-LIFE. When K-LIFE comes into contact with light, it will be able to purify the air, expel harmful bacteria, and more. K-LIFE can easily be integrated into many applications – from wall coverings and claddings for ceilings, to custom tables, bars, sinks, shelving units and furniture. The application of K-LIFE in areas with high daily traffic, such as waiting rooms or reception areas, can assure a gradual decontamination of germs and lead to ongoing ecological benefits. Some research performed with KRION® K-LIFE, which has photocatalytic properties, proved that the material can significantly reduce the presence of bacteria. This revolutionary process has led to a patent pending, innovative, and exclusive product that will have a direct effect on our quality of life. Learn more about KRION® at https://www.porcelanosa-usa.com/what-is-krion/.  

Our KBTalks hosts Elle and Jennifer connect with Brian Pagel and Amy Hornby of Emerald Expositions to hear what attendees can expect at KBIS 2019 in Las Vegas. February 19-21, 2018. Sponsored by: Monogram Appliances

Now that Commercial Integrator, TechDecisions, CE Pro and other formerly-EH Media brands have been acquired by Emerald Expositions, will they change? In a word: no! Listen to episode 25 of the pro AV podcast, AV+

Now that Commercial Integrator, TechDecisions, CE Pro and other formerly-EH Media brands have been acquired by Emerald Expositions, will they change? In a word: no!Listen to episode 25 of the pro AV podcast, AV+

During a 100% lead-free episode of fastener talk radio, industry consultant Carmen Vertullo revisits the topic of Prop 65 in the wake of his recent webinar, with the latest developments and thinking on the subject (17:35). Innovative Components founder and president, Mike O’Connor describes the right way to “near-shore” and how to make a better muskie bait (1:23:21). Trinity Logistics CEO, Dan Zehnder joins Mike McNulty on the Fastener News Report to examine what’s fueling the current FDI spike (51:45). Plus, Morgan Wilson and Linh Vu, of Emerald Expositions, preview this year’s much anticipated Vegas fastener show, also known as IFE (37:58). The Fastener Training Minute presents what you need to know about surface discontinuity (1:16:36). In denouement, Brian and Eric discover a clearinghouse of a different stripe, and observe that occasionally the best things are indeed free. Run time: 02:11:42

Drew Lawsky is the Show Director of Emerald Expositions Jewelry Group.  Emerald Expositions is a leading operator of business-to-business trade shows in the United States.  They currently operate more than 55 trade shows, as well as numerous other face-to-face events.  In 2017, Emerald's events connected over 500,000 global attendees and exhibitors and occupied more than 6.9 million NSF of exhibition space.

This preview of CEDIA Expo 2018 includes education previews from CEDIA's Dave Pedigo, a dive into an "Architectural Cinema" class taught by John Bishop, a look at the additions Emerald Expositions is bringing to the table with Brain Pagel, and a rundown of content provided by CE Pro with Jason Knott. Register here for CEDIA Expo 2018.

Kajsa Krause and Tracey Sawyer: International Hospitality Design Today in The Lounge, Nick chats Veronika Miller, the founder and CEO of Modenus and Official Media Partner with KBIS. Veronika will discuss her collaboration with KBIS and the line-up of events at KBIS 2018. Then stayed tuned for Nick's conversation with Kajsa Krause and Tracey Sawyer of Krause Sawyer at the Porcelanosa showroom in NYC. The duo will discuss their partnership, their love of travel, and how they created their niche in the hospitality sector. About Modenus Veronika Miller is the founder and editor inchief of  Modenus, a comprehensive digital resource for design professionals and design enthusiasts. Modenus began in 2009 and added a social media component known as the Blog Tour in 2011. The goal of the Blog Tour is to bring both people and brands together. The following year KBIS approached Modenus to help them connect with the design community, to build a bond and to reach design professionals who were not necessarily engaged in the kitchen and bath industry. After this initial contact Modenus became an official media partner with KBIS. This January will mark their 6th Blog Tour together. The Blog Tour has been hugely successful for Modenus. They have a community of about 250 bloggers who they reach out to for recommendations on what/who is new and interesting. These nominees are then narrowed down and the final blog tour participants are selected. In addition to the Blog Tour, each year Modernus compiles a Top 100 Influencers list, which again, is entirely community driven. Reaching out to the design community provides an endless resource for continued networking and education.                       KBIS and Modenus KBIS 2018 will kick off with a networking event entitled Champagne and Cupcakes on Tuesday, January 9th from 9:30-10:30 am. Hosted by Modenus, this invitation-only event will feature media influencers, designers, and media to celebrate the beginning of KBIS. Healthy cupcakes and a little bit of bubbly will be on the menu to honor their sponsor, Signature Kitchen, a new luxury division of LG, whose mission is focused on living well and living in a healthy way. There will also be giveaways, speakers and an introduction by Brian Pagel, VP of Kitchen and Bath division at Emerald Expositions. There will be many design events, speakers, and educational opportunities at KBIS. Jaime Derringer from Design Milk will be teaming up with Modenus at the lounge cafe, Design milk x Modenus Talk lounge. Mirroring the format at Wanted Design in NY, the lounge cafe will provide a relaxed atmosphere with refreshments, phone charging stations and an opportunity for everyone in the room to talk and share their thoughts. The event will also be streamed on Facebook live. Claire Jefford will also be hosting an event with several design influences that will cover the topics of Technology and How It Relates To Design and Social Media Do's and Don'ts. This Old House will cover topics on skilled labor global design and working remotely and The Good Home Redux will cover the impact of design on wellness and sustainability. Navigating KBIS For those new to KBIS, the large scale of the show can be overwhelming. Bring comfortable shoes and be prepared to walk. The dress code is business casual, most attendees wear jeans and polo shirts, with a few designers choosing to dress up. It is about one mile between halls. Veronika recommends starting at West Hall, which is the main area that houses the bigger brands and follows a more traditional format. Plan on spending an entire day there. On a separate day, focus on the North and South Halls, where the stage, discovery district, which houses the smaller up and coming brands, the Modenus lounge and an outdoor area with catering can be found. Plan about 15-20min to get to where you are going. On Wednesday, be on the lookout for Design Bites. Similar to speed dating, Design Bites give exhibitors an opportunity to d...

Kajsa Krause and Tracey Sawyer: International Hospitality Design Today in The Lounge, Nick chats Veronika Miller, the founder and CEO of Modenus and Official Media Partner with KBIS. Veronika will discuss her collaboration with KBIS and the line-up of events at KBIS 2018. Then stayed tuned for Nick's conversation with Kajsa Krause and Tracey Sawyer of Krause Sawyer at the Porcelanosa showroom in NYC. The duo will discuss their partnership, their love of travel, and how they created their niche in the hospitality sector. About Modenus Veronika Miller is the founder and editor inchief of  Modenus, a comprehensive digital resource for design professionals and design enthusiasts. Modenus began in 2009 and added a social media component known as the Blog Tour in 2011. The goal of the Blog Tour is to bring both people and brands together. The following year KBIS approached Modenus to help them connect with the design community, to build a bond and to reach design professionals who were not necessarily engaged in the kitchen and bath industry. After this initial contact Modenus became an official media partner with KBIS. This January will mark their 6th Blog Tour together. The Blog Tour has been hugely successful for Modenus. They have a community of about 250 bloggers who they reach out to for recommendations on what/who is new and interesting. These nominees are then narrowed down and the final blog tour participants are selected. In addition to the Blog Tour, each year Modernus compiles a Top 100 Influencers list, which again, is entirely community driven. Reaching out to the design community provides an endless resource for continued networking and education.                       KBIS and Modenus KBIS 2018 will kick off with a networking event entitled Champagne and Cupcakes on Tuesday, January 9th from 9:30-10:30 am. Hosted by Modenus, this invitation-only event will feature media influencers, designers, and media to celebrate the beginning of KBIS. Healthy cupcakes and a little bit of bubbly will be on the menu to honor their sponsor, Signature Kitchen, a new luxury division of LG, whose mission is focused on living well and living in a healthy way. There will also be giveaways, speakers and an introduction by Brian Pagel, VP of Kitchen and Bath division at Emerald Expositions. There will be many design events, speakers, and educational opportunities at KBIS. Jaime Derringer from Design Milk will be teaming up with Modenus at the lounge cafe, Design milk x Modenus Talk lounge. Mirroring the format at Wanted Design in NY, the lounge cafe will provide a relaxed atmosphere with refreshments, phone charging stations and an opportunity for everyone in the room to talk and share their thoughts. The event will also be streamed on Facebook live. Claire Jefford will also be hosting an event with several design influences that will cover the topics of Technology and How It Relates To Design and Social Media Do's and Don'ts. This Old House will cover topics on skilled labor global design and working remotely and The Good Home Redux will cover the impact of design on wellness and sustainability. Navigating KBIS For those new to KBIS, the large scale of the show can be overwhelming. Bring comfortable shoes and be prepared to walk. The dress code is business casual, most attendees wear jeans and polo shirts, with a few designers choosing to dress up. It is about one mile between halls. Veronika recommends starting at West Hall, which is the main area that houses the bigger brands and follows a more traditional format. Plan on spending an entire day there. On a separate day, focus on the North and South Halls, where the stage, discovery district, which houses the smaller up and coming brands, the Modenus lounge and an outdoor area with catering can be found. Plan about 15-20min to get to where you are going. On Wednesday, be on the lookout for Design Bites. Similar to speed dating, Design Bites give exhibitors an opportunity to d...

Shayla Copas: From Homeless to Luxury Interior Designer. Today in The Lounge, Nick speaks with Shayla Copas of Shayla Copas Interiors at the Zuo Modern Showroom in High Point, North Carolina. Shayla discusses how she runs her business with only a small group of people and a few interns. Find out how Shayla advertises in a way that people don't really do anymore and how she became an interior designer withOUT a proper design education. Nick also speaks with Brian Pagel from Emerald Expositions. They chat about The Chaise Lounge's new partnership with KBIS and what to expect this year from the 2018 Kitchen and Bath Industry Show in January.   Getting to Know Shayla Shayla's favorite type of music is rap, she loves Tupac and Biggie. Her favorite fashion accessory is her pink Valentino shoes and handbags. Her ideal Saturday night is being at home next to her husband with a glass of wine, watching movies. Shayla's favorite vacation spot is in Italy on the Amalfi coast. When asked ‘beer, wine or cocktail?' Shayla picks a Caymus wine...by the case. As a child, Shayla would rearrange the furniture in her house and redo her bedroom at least three to four times a year. Shayla originally went to school for marketing and nursing and had almost graduated when she decided to follow her talents in interior design. Shayla's marketing experience helps her not only market her own business but her husband's as well. She met her entrepreneur of a husband in Portland, while out with some friends and now they've been married for 20 years. At one point, her husband was the fourth biggest commercial contractor in Arkansas, but he's only helped out in Shayla's business four times. Shayla was 19 years old when she was kicked out of her home because she was pregnant. She went to a pregancy home where they convinced her to continue school, start a career, and give back. Shayla asked the baby's father for child support but the father's parents didn't want him to help her. Instead, they gave her some silk plants to sell on the street and told her support the baby that way. So, Shayla stood in a pet store parking lot in Vancouver, selling silk plants rain or shine for 8 months. She began to supply silk plants as housewarming gifts for apartments around the nation. Her own apartment was filled to the ceiling with silk plants and trees in order to keep up. The production cost and materials for each plant was only about $10 but she sold them for $25-$125. Shayla was thankful for her source of income but, she was always thinking beyond what she was currently doing and looking for the next business venture. The Business Today Shayla now runs a luxury design business that does both commercial and residential work. She has a small staff from two to ten, depending on the season. Shayla markets, sells, and designs. She has interior designers on retainer and recieves a lot of help from her interns. To market herself, Shayla uses print advertising. She does advertorials with her local magazine and is getting ready to go national. Her advertorials are made from a monthly kit that the magazine supplies her, which helps them not feel like ads. She wants her customers to see her personal touch as a designer while being authentic, organic, and not contrived. Shayla gets some business from her social media platforms as well and uses Instagram to convey her brand. She loves posting stories to bring in more followers, showing off products from her vendors and from her portfolio, unless the images are going to be published. Shayla and Nick tell us that you should redo your website every two to three years because the business is always changing, and you should be as well. Shayla thinks designers should also include their press on their website. Shayla's favorite part of the business, besides design, are her clients and the relationships she builds with them. While her main focus is in luxury design, she will do small budget projects as well.

The fastener industry continues to surge, as its key index remains well into expansionary territory for the seventh month running. Fastener Distributor Index co-creator, Holden Lewis, discusses the success of the monthly benchmark, and also his new position as CFO at Fastenal (1:14:11). Field Fastener president, Bill Derry shares his philosophy and formula for success upon his induction into the Fastener Industry Hall of Fame (21:27). Fastener Technology International editor Mike McNulty presents the Fastener News Report with guest commentator Dan Zehnder, of Trinity Logistics Corporation (47:28). Emerald Expositions show organizer Courtney Harold previews the 2017 fastener show, newly renamed the International Fastener Expo (36:35). Bonus redux: WIFI co-founder, Pam Berry reports from the “inner sanctum” during NIFS 2012 (1:59:16). Also, industry consultant Carmen Vertullo talks thread strength during the Fastener Training Minute (1:07:21). Brian and Eric announce the release of the new “Screwgle” FCH search interface. They also note the troubles many people are enduring in the aftermath of back to back tragedies, and suggest listeners rise to the occasion. Run time: 02:04:45

Today on Purse Strings Maria Reitan speaks with Brian Pagel, VP of Emerald Expositions and runs the Kitchen &Bath Industry Show. The Kitchen & Bath Industry's largest showcase of newideas, products & technology. To learn more, go to kbis.com