Podcasts about HCD

What if everything we thought you knew about education was holding us back? It's time to unlearn, reimagine, and step into the future of learning with CoLAB. Listen to our latest podcast episode featuring “who” from CoLAB, an organization whose vision is to co-design next-ready resilient communities where education, creativity and social responsibility converge to drive impact in a rapidly changing world. CoLAB is redefining education with a bold, student-centered philosophy that fuses design thinking, critical inquiry, creativity, and service. More than just a learning model, it's an agile ecosystem designed to equip students with the skills and mindset needed to thrive in the Fourth Industrial Revolution. Unlike traditional approaches, CoLAB champions co-creation, student agency, and the exploration of limitless possibilities—drawing inspiration from quantum physics, psychology, and the sciences to challenge conventional wisdom. What happens when we bring people together in an environment that intentionally designs for critical inquiry, imagination, and creativity, turning K-12 education on its head? What happens when you infuse design thinking into the DNA of a classroom? How can we provide a pathway to advancement—one where people of all ages, inside and outside classrooms, can develop the skills and capacities to lead and realize potential in the fourth industrial revolution What do outcomes look like when we can rewrite traditional ways of teaching, and train educators to bring these next generation classrooms to life?  

Die ZSC Lions sind Schweizer Meister. Spiel 5 im Playoffinal endet mit einem 3:2-Erfolg der Zürcher in Lausanne. Das Best-of-7 geht damit mit 4:1 Siegen an den Titelverteidiger. Wir diskutieren mit Rapperswils Goalie Melvin Nyffeler über die Partie und vor allem die Torhüter-Optik.

Spiel 4 im Playoffinal endet mit einem 3:1-Heimsieg der ZSC Lions gegen Lausanne. Damit führen die Zürcher im Best-of-7 mit 3:1. Wir diskutieren mit dem früheren Goalie Lars Weibel über die Partie, aber auch über seine aktuelle Arbeit als Nationalmannschafts-Direktor.

Spiel 3 im Playoffinal zwischen dem Lausanne HC und den ZSC Lions endet mit einem 4:2-Heimsieg. Damit führen die Zürcher im Best-of-7 nur  noch 2:1. Wir diskutieren mit Michael Liniger, dem neuen Cheftrainer des EV Zug, über die Partie, aber auch über seine Arbeit beim EVZ. 

Auch Spiel 2 im Playoff-Final geht an die ZSC Lions: Sie gewinnen zuhause gegen Lausanne mit 3:2 nach Verlängerung und führen im Best-of-7 nun 2:0. Über die Partie sprechen wir mit dem früheren Profi Sven Helfenstein, der heute als Spielerberater arbeitet und bei Mysports als TV-Experte wirkt.

Spiel 1 im Playoff-Final geht an die ZSC Lions, die auswärts bei Lausanne mit 3:0 gewannen. Wir diskutieren mit Edgar Salis über die Partie sowie die Lions-Organisation.

Am siebten und letzten Tag der Playoff-Halbfinals gewinnt der Lausanne HC gegen den HC Fribourg-Gottéron Game 7 mit 5:1. Der LHC trifft damit ab Dienstag im Final auf die ZSC Lions, die sich bereits am Donnerstag gegen den HC Davos durchgesetzt hatten. Wir reden mit Stürmer Dominic Hobi über die gestrige Partie sowie über die ebenfalls bereits beendete Ligaqualifikation, in der sich der HC Ajoie gegen Swiss-League-Club Visp 4:1 durchsetzte und sich den Ligaerhalt sicherte.

Am sechsten Tag der Playoff-Halbfinals verlor der HC Fribourg-Gottéron gegen Lausanne 1:4 und unterlag der HC Davos den ZSC Lions 4:6. Damit gewannen die Zürcher ihre Best-of-7-Serie 4:2, während es im Duell der Westschweizer 3:3 steht. Wir reden mit dem früheren Schiedsrichter und heutigem Mysports-Referee-Experten Nadir Mandioni über die beiden Spiele sowie über die Sicht der Unparteiischen.

Sanasurselva examinescha opziuns per il futur da l'ospital a Glion – Setgira en Grischun procura per incendi al cunfin talian – Cun l'adia d'Andres Ambühl va in'era a fin per il HCD.

Play-off total im neusten HCD-Talk mit Blick-Eishockeyjournalist Marcel Allemann. Was spricht jetzt für den HCD? Und: Reist Ambühl nochmals an die WM?

Am fünften Tag der Playoff-Halbfinals gewann der Lausanne HC gegen den HC Fribourg-Gottéron mit 2:1 und siegten die ZSC Lions gegen den HC Davos 3:0. Im Best-of-7 liegen Gottéron und die Zürcher beide 3:2 vorne. Wir reden mit dem CEO der ZSC Lions sowohl über die Partie seiner Mannschaft, sprechen aber auch über das Duell in der Westschweiz.

Am vierten Tag der Playoff-Halbfinals gewinnt der HC Fribourg-Gottéron gegen Lausanne mit 4:3 nach zwei Verlängerungen und siegt der HC Davos gegen die ZSC Lions 3:1. Während Gottéron im Best-of-7 3:1 führt, steht es in der anderen Serie 2:2. Wir reden mit Österreichs Nationaltrainer, dem Schweizer Roger Bader, über die beiden Spiele, aber auch über die Austria-Spieler Vinzenz Rohrer und Michael Raffl im Schweizer Playoff.

Am dritten Tag der Playoff-Halbfinals verliert der Lausanne HC gegen den HC Fribourg-Gottéron mit 2:3 nach Verlängerung und gewinnen die ZSC Lions gegen den HC Davos 5:1. Gottéron und die Zürcher liegen nun im Best-of-7 beide 2:1 vorne. Wir reden mit dem aktuell verletzten Davoser Nationalspieler Enzo Corvi über die Partie seiner Mannschaft, sprechen aber auch über das Duell in der Westschweiz.

Am zweiten Tag der Playoff-Halbfinals verliert der HC Fribourg-Gottéron gegen den Lausanne HC mit 0:1 und gewinnt der HC Davos gegen die ZSC Lions 4:3. In beiden Serien steht es nun 1:1. Wir reden mit Langnaus Sportchef Pascal Müller über die starke Saison seines Teams sowie auch ausführlich über die beiden Playoff-Duelle.

Am ersten Tag der Playoff-Halbfinals verlor der Lausanne HC gegen den HC Fribourg-Gottéron mit 2:3 und gewannen die ZSC Lions gegen den HC Davos 6:1. Wir reden mit ZSC-Assistenztrainer Fabio Schwarz über das Spiel seiner Mannschaft, reden aber auch über das Duell in der Westschweiz.

Die Viertelfinals endeten am 14. Tag mit dem 4:1-Sieg von Fribourg-Gottéron in Bern und dem Endstand von 4:3 in der Best-of-7-Serie. Damit kommt es ab Samstag zu folgenden Halbfinals: Lausanne - Fribourg und ZSC - Davos.In der 14. Episode des Playoff-Eisbrechers blicken die vier Hosts zurück und erzählen von zwei Momenten, die ihnen in den letzten zwei Wochen besonders in Erinnerung geblieben sind.

Am 13. Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 gewann der Lausanne HC gegen die SCL Tigers Spiel 7 mit 6:2 und damit mit 4:3 die Serie. Wir blicken auf Spiel 7 zurück und sprechen auch über den bereits im Play-In ausgeschiedenen HC Ambri-Piotta. Gast ist nämlich HCAP-Trainer Luca Cereda.

Am zwölften Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 gewann Bern in Fribourg 4:3 nach Verlängerung und glich die Serie zum 3:3 aus. In der heutigen Playoff-Daily-Folge schaltet sich Félicien Du Bois die Diskussion ein. Wir sprechen mit dem früheren Nationalverteidiger und heutigem Juniorentrainer beim HC Davos über Spiel 6 bei Gottéron - SCB. Und auch über "seinen" HCD, der sich in seiner Serie gegen den EVZ mit 4:0 durchsetzte.

Am elften Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 gewannen die SCL Tigers gegen Lausanne 3:2 und glichen die Serie zum 3:3 aus. Wir blicken aber auch auf das Playoff des EHC Kloten zurück, der im Derby gegen die ZSC Lions mit 1:4 Siegen den Kürzeren zog. Gast ist nämlich EHC-Sportchef Ricardo Schödler.

Am zehnten Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 gewinnt Bern gegen Fribourg 3:2 nach Verlängerung und verkürzt die Serie auf 2:3. In der heutigen Playoff-Daily-Folge schaltet sich Christian Wohlwend in die Diskussion ein. Wir sprechen einerseits über SCB - Gottéron. Und weil die Serie EVZ - HCD (0:4) bereits seit 2 Tagen beendet ist, thematisieren wir auch das Playout Lugano - Ajoie und den Swiss-League-Final Basel - Visp.

Am neunten Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 gewannen die ZSC Lions gegen Kloten 5:2 und beendeten die Serie mit einem 4:1. Bei Lausanne gegen die SCL Tigers gab es mit 4:1 den fünften Heimsieg, der LHC führt damit 3:2. In der Playoff-Daily-Folge schaltet sich MySports-Moderator Jann Billeter in die Diskussion ein.

Am achten Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 verlor der SC Bern bei HC Fribourg-Gottéron 1:2 und liegt nun im Best-of-7 1:3 zurück, während der HC Davos gegen den EV Zug 5:2 siegte und die Serie mit 4:0 gewann. In der heutigen Playoff-Daily-Folge schaltet sich die Schweizer Goalie-Legende Renato Tosio in die Diskussion ein. Wir sprechen über Davos - Zug und Fribourg - Bern. Bei der einen Partie war Tosio am Donnerstag im Stadion, aber auch über die andere wird ausführlich diskutiert.

Am siebten Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 gewann der EHC Kloten gegen die ZSC Lions 2:1, während die SCL Tigers gegen Lausanne 3:2 siegten. In den Serien steht es 3:1 für den ZSC respektive 2:2. In der Playoff-Daily-Folge schaltet sich MySports-Experte Ueli Schwarz in die Diskussion ein.

Am sechsten Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 gewann der SC Bern gegen den HC Fribourg-Gottéron 3:2 nach Verlängerung, während der EV Zug dem HC Davos gleich 0:4 unterlag. In den Serien steht es 2:1 für Gottéron respektive 3:0 für Davos. In der heutigen Playoff-Daily-Folge schaltet sich EVZ-Sportchef Reto Kläy trotz schwieriger Ausgangslage in die Diskussion ein. Hauptthema ist das Duell Zug - Davos mit dem Trainerduell Josh Holden - Dan Tangnes, daneben wird aber auch über die Serie SCB - Gottéron geredet.

Am fünften Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 gewannen die ZSC Lions gegen 1:0 und führen nun im Best-of-7 3:0. Qualifikationssieger Lausanne besiegte die SCL Tigers mit viel Mühe 4:2 und führt nun 2:1. In der Playoff-Daily-Folge schaltet sich Jeff Tomlinson in die Diskussion ein. Er beendete 2023 seine Trainerkarriere in Kloten wegen gesundheitlichen Problemen, von denen er auch an dieser Stelle in einer früheren Episode erzählte. Tomlinson, immer noch als Berater des EHC Kloten tätig, ist damit der erste Gast im Eisbrecher, der in zweites Mal dabei ist. Wir sprechen mit ihm über das Zürcher Derby und das umstrittene Tor. Doch auch die Serie LHC - Langnau ist Thema in der Runde.

Am vierten Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 bezwang der HC Fribourg-Gottéron den SC Bern 3:0, während der HC Davos gegen den EV Zug 5:1 gewann. In beiden Serien steht es damit 2:0. In der heutigen Playoff-Daily-Folge schaltet sich der frühere Stürmer und heutige SCB-Sportchef Patrik Bärtschi in die Diskussion ein. Hauptthema ist das Zähringer Derby Bern - Gottéron. Daneben wird aber auch über die Serie HCD - EVZ geredet.

Im zweiten Duell muss sich der EV Zug gegen den HCD klar geschlagen geben. Die Zuger verlieren mit 1:5. In der Playoff-Viertelfinalserie liegt der EVZ damit mit 0:2 im Rückstand. Die dritte Begegnung der beiden Teams ist am Dienstag. Weiter in der Sendung: · Die Zuger Mitte-Politikerin und Kommunikationsfachfrau Manuela Käch hat Martin Pfister auf seinem Weg in den Bundesrat eng begleitet.

Am dritten Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 unterlag der EHC Kloten den ZSC Lions 0:5, während die SCL Tigers gegen Lausanne 4:3 nach Verlängerung gewannen. In der Playoff-Daily-Folge schaltet sich der frühere Verteidiger Justin Krueger in die Diskussion ein. Er beendete seine Karriere in Lausanne und war beim LHC danach noch ein Jahr lang als Assistent im sportlichen Management tätig. Er spielte zudem in der Nationalmannschaft Deutschlands unter Geoff Ward und hat darum aus doppeltem Grund Interessantes zu erzählen über den Lausanner Trainer. Daneben wird aber auch über das Zürcher Derby geredet, bei dem nicht nur das klare Resultat, sondern auch eine Szene mit Steve Kellenberger und Vinzenz Rohrer für Diskussionen sorgte. 

Am zweiten Tag der Playoff-Viertelfinals 2025 verlor der SC Bern gegen Fribourg-Gottéron 3:4 nach Verlängerung, während der EV Zug gegen Davos 1:2 unterlag. In der Playoff-Daily-Folge schaltet sich HCD-CEO Marc Gianola in die Diskussion ein. Wir reden aber auch über das sehr lange Spiel des SCB gegen Gottéron.

Das Playoff 2025 hat begonnen. Am ersten Tag der Viertelfinals gewannen die ZSC Lions gegen Kloten 5:1, während Lausanne die SCL Tigers 4:3 besiegte. In der ersten Playoff-Daily-Folge schaltet sich ZSC-Sportchef Sven Leuenberger in die Diskussion der Eisbrecher-Hosts ein. Wir diskutieren aber auch über das turbulente Spiel Langnaus beim Qualifikationssieger LHC.

Die Playoff-Viertelfinals liefern grossartige Affichen: Mit ZSC - Kloten und Bern - Fribourg gleich zwei Derbys und mit Zug - Davos ein Duell, das aus zwei Gründen besonders ist. Zum einen hat sich zwischen den beiden Teams in den letzten Jahren auch dank hitzigen Playoff-Spielen eine grosse Rivalität entwickelt, zum anderen treffen hier mit Dan Tangnes und Josh Holden zwei Trainer aufeinander, die im EVZ fünf Jahre lang als Headcoach und Assistent gearbeitet hatten und dabei zu den wohl grössten Freunden unter den Trainern der National League wurden.Die vierte Serie bleibt da fast ein wenig im Schatten der anderen Begegnungen. Zu Unrecht? Immerhin liegt beim Duell des Qualifikationssiegers Lausanne und Aussenseiter Langnau, der in der höchsten Liga erst zum dritten Mal Playoff spielen wird, das grösste Überraschungspotenzial.Ebenfalls demnächst beginnt das Playout zwischen Lugano und Ajoie. Der Verlierer muss danach die Ligaqualifikation um Auf- um Abstieg bestreiten - aber nur, wenn der EHC Visp B-Meister wird.

Grosser Qualirückblick und der Ausblick auf die Play-offs - im neusten HCD-Talk diskutieren unsere Experten über den negativen Trend beim HCD, heisse Personalfragen und schauen auf Gegner EVZ.

Both UX and content professionals routinely find themselves on teams where they are the sole practitioner of their craft. Leah Buley and Joe Natoli recently revised "The UX Team of One" to share their pragmatic take on solo UX practice, deftly balancing the application of human-centered research insights with the need to show the business value of UX work. https://ellessmedia.com/csi/ux-team-of-one/

Welcher Schweizer Spieler erhält von seinem Trainer die grösste Verantwortung? Es dürfte die am schwierigsten zu beantwortende Trivia-Frage in der Schweizer Eishockeymeisterschaft sein. Es ist nämlich Ken Jäger. In seinem Team erhält er die meiste Einsatzzeit aller Stürmer, inklusive Spezialsituationen wie Unterzahl und mit kleinen Abstrichen auch Überzahl.Nicht nur ist das in der National League einmalig, der 26-jährige Jäger darf dies auch noch beim souveränen Tabellenersten Lausanne tun. Ken Jäger? Ausser Insidern dürfte der Name selbst im Schweizer Eishockey-Kosmos nicht vielen ein Begriff sein, zumindest keiner, über den man vieles Bescheid weiss.Im Eisbrecher-Podcast erzählt der Davoser seine Geschichte, die jahrelang unter dem Radar der Schweizer Eishockey-Interessierten blieb: Wie er als HCD-Junior auch eine Saison beim Nachwuchsteam des Zweitligisten Prättigau-Herrschaft in Grüsch spielen musste, wo in den Pausen auch mal zum Salsiz gegriffen wurde. Wie seine Jugend durch Wachstumsstörungen geprägt wurde.Wie er mit 20 ein Angebot Arno Del Curtos für die 1. Mannschaft ablehnte. Wie er stattdessen nach Schweden wechselte, aber an einem ganz anderen Ort landete als vorgesehen und stattdessen als Spieler eines Kleinclubs in einem Holzhäuschen in einem Campingpark ähnlichen Umständen lebte. Und wie er unverhofft in Lausanne landete und zum Leistungsträger und WM-Spieler wurde.

In this episode of This is HCD, Gerry Scullion sits down with Lucy Flores, a seasoned design strategist with a passion for advancing equity in the food system. Together, they explore the complex web of how we grow, distribute, and experience food, diving into the inequities present at every level—from production to consumption. Lucy shares her journey into design and food justice, her innovative approaches to co-designing equitable solutions, and inspiring examples of local and regional food systems driving positive change. This conversation sheds light on the power of design to create meaningful social impact, all with a good dose of humour along the way. Join us as we rethink food systems through a human-centered lens! Watch this episode and subscribe on our YouTube https://www.linkedin.com/in/lucyrossflores/ The Human Centered Design Network We've just launched our free 5-Day Email course for changemakers. Subscribe https://www.thisishcd.com/ https://www.thisishcd.com/training https://www.thisishcd.com/community

In einer Kurzepisode diskutieren die drei Eisbrecher-Hosts für einmal nur über einen Spieler: Brendan Lemieux.Der Stürmer ist 28-jährig und Sohn des früheren NHL-Spielers Claude Lemieux, der wie kaum ein anderer Spieler seiner Generation einen "Jekyll-and-Hyde"-Ruf hatte: Der einerseits mit 4 Stanley-Cup-Siegen äusserst erfolgreiche Stürmer und Skorer (45 Tore in seiner besten Saison 91/92) galt auch als einer der meistgehassten Spieler der Liga, als ultimative "Pest", die ihren Gegnern mit allen möglichen und unmöglichen Mitteln unter die Haut ging.Viele Beobachter in Nordamerika vergleichen Brendan Lemieux diesbezüglich mit seinem Vater, allerdings minus das grosse Skorertalent. Er war 2014 zwar ebenfalls wie sein Vater ein NHL-Zweitrundendraft und überzeugte in seiner ersten Saison im AHL-Farmteam mit 48 Skorerpunkten in 59 Spielen. Danach spielte er nur noch in der weltbesten Hockeyliga und fiel fast nur noch in seiner Rolle als Agitator und Sammler von vielen Strafminuten auf.Für Aufsehen sorgte eine Sperre von fünf Spielen inklusive einer Busse von 38'750 US-Dollar im November 2021, weil er seinem Gegenspieler Brady Tkachuk nach einem Faustkampf in die Hand gebissen hatte - wie es übrigens 1986 sein Vater Claude gegen Jim Peplinski getan hatte, Letzterer bezichtigte Lemieux' danach des Kannibalismus ...Was kommt hier mit Brendan Lemieux auf die Schweizer Meisterschaft zu? Mehr dazu in der neusten Ausgabe des Eisbrechers.

In seinem Hauptberuf an der Universität Zürich arbeitet Phillip Ströbel mit künstlicher Intelligenz und erstellt zum Beispiel für die Geschichtsforschung Video-Modelle mit möglichen Bildern aus der Antike. Der in Computerlinguistik doktorierte Appenzeller arbeitet aber auch als Schiedsrichter und steht in seiner ersten vollen Saison in der höchsten Liga der Schweizer Meisterschaft.Im Eisbrecher-Podcast mit Ströbel wird darum genauso über Eishockey wie auch künstliche Intelligenz diskutiert. Die KI als Schiedsrichter, die anhand der vielen Kameras im Stadion in Echtzeit Entscheide fällt? «Tönt sehr interessant!», sagt Ströbel, er hofft dennoch nicht, dass dies Realität wird: «Weil dann würden wir Schiedsrichter ja ersetzt werden.»Warum und wie Ströbel Referee wurde, warum seine Anreise an Spiele ligaweit einmalig ist, wie er das Hobby auf dem Eis nebst einer Vollzeitstelle an der Universität bewältigt, und wie er zudem auch noch junge Schiedsrichter ausbildet: All dies und mehr gibt es im neuen Eisbrecher zu hören.

Welcome to another episode of This is HCD. In this episode, Kate Tarling discusses her experiences in service design, focusing on the importance of user research, empathy, and fostering collaboration within organisations. She explores the evolution of service design in the UK, particularly in government services, and offers practical advice for driving organisational change. Kate emphasises the role of leadership in promoting a human-centered approach and cautions against focusing solely on cost-cutting. She highlights the importance of metrics for measuring success and the value of community building to enhance teamwork and innovation. linkedin.com/in/kate-tarling-6b43b19 theserviceorg.com This episode is sponsored by Smaply https://www.smaply.com/?thisishcd Become a member: https://www.thisishcd.com/landing/circle-a-community-for-ethically-conscious-designers-changemakers Book a Coaching Chemistry Call: https://calendly.com/gerryscullion/coaching-chemistry-call

Welcome to This is HCD. In this enlightening episode, we sit down with futurist and advisor April Rinne to unpack the transformative concept of the "flux mindset." April shares compelling insights into how embracing this mindset equips us to thrive amid constant change and uncertainty. Our conversation delves deep into the significance of authenticity, where April encourages sharing our most challenging stories to build genuine connections and harness the strength found in vulnerability. We also explore the evolving landscape of governance, discussing the need for more adaptable systems and a reimagining of traditional notions like borders and identity. Trust emerges as a central theme, with April highlighting its multifaceted role in personal and societal resilience. Throughout our discussion, she offers practical daily practices to cultivate the eight "flux superpowers," providing listeners with actionable strategies to better navigate life's unpredictability. linkedin.com/in/aprilrinne http://aprilrinne.com/ Become a member: https://www.thisishcd.com/landing/circle-a-community-for-ethically-conscious-designers-changemakers Book a Coaching Chemistry Call: https://calendly.com/gerryscullion/coaching-chemistry-call

Giant Robots On Tour Hosts Sami Birnbaum and Jared Turner introduce Sheng-Hung Lee, a designer, PhD researcher at MIT AgeLab, and board director at the Industrial Designers Society of America. Sheng-Hung shares his journey into design and engineering, emphasizing the importance of interpreting signals in design and the evolving role of designers from problem-solvers to culture shapers. He discusses how designers must now consider broader, systematic issues such as climate change and aging. Sheng-Hung explains that design is a teachable and essential life skill, highlighting the significance of personal experiences and failures in learning design. He elaborates on the concept of signals, explaining that they represent different perspectives and interpretations in design, which are crucial in addressing complex problems. The conversation shifts to practical design applications and Sheng-Hung's work in smart homes for aging populations. He discusses the integration of various smart systems and the importance of designing for different life stages rather than specific age groups. Jared and Sami also engage Sheng-Hung in discussing the worst and best-designed products, where Sheng-Hung mentions his initial skepticism but eventual appreciation for facial recognition technology. MIT AgeLab (https://agelab.mit.edu/) Industrial Designers Society of America (https://www.idsa.org/) Follow Sheng-Hung Lee on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/shenghunglee/). Visit his website: shenghunglee.com (https://www.shenghunglee.com/). Follow thoughtbot on X (https://twitter.com/thoughtbot) or LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/company/150727/). Transcript:  SAMI: Hello again, and this is The Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots podcast, the Giant Robots On Tour Series coming to you from Europe, West Asia, and Africa, where we explore the design, development, and business of great products. I'm your host, Sami Birnbaum. JARED: And I'm your other host, Jared Turner. SAMI: If you are wondering, which you might have been for a while now, where are Will or Victoria, well, make sure you find one of our previous podcasts where we introduce the Giant Robots on Tour Series, and you'll understand why you're hearing myself and Jared a little bit more frequently than before. In that podcast, we throw random icebreakers at each other, and we find out that Svenja does not like online banking. And if you haven't listened to our previous podcast with our guest, Ishani, check that out as quick as you can and find out why AI is compared to babies. Joining us today is Sheng-Hung Lee, a Designer and PhD Researcher at MIT AgeLab and Board Director at the Industrial Designers Society of America. Sheng-Hung, I'm going to level with you. I've done my research. I've done my due diligence on the guests that we have on this podcast, and I'm exhausted. SHENG-HUNG: [laughs] SAMI: I've looked through your own website, and I've read as much as I can find about you. And between education, experience, awards, scholarships, there is an incredible amount of things that you're involved in that you get up to. And it really wasn't good for my own self-esteem just to see how much you have going on. SHENG-HUNG: [laughs] SAMI: Jared, a question for you first. Bear in mind, the only thing I've ever been awarded is my own driving license. So, our guest, Sheng-Hung, how many awards do you think he has currently listed on his website? Give a guess. JARED: Oh gosh, I remember looking at the page, and I remember having to scroll. SAMI: [laughs] Yeah, you had to scroll. JARED: Let's pick 33. SAMI: 33. Do you know what? It's not even close. Okay, he's nearly double that. So, he's up at 60 awards that are currently listed. So, we're talking about a guest that you guys do not want to miss. And you want to make sure that you get into this conversation. I always like to go back to the start with my guests. So, everyone has a story. And I'm interested, Sheng-Hung, in your journey and what led you into the world of design and engineering. SHENG-HUNG: My personal definition of design is, like, decoding signals. So, everything in our lives, like, we have different types of signals. How do we interpret the signal? How do we, like, understand, or perceive different types of signals in our lives? And I feel design is more like...not just creation. It is creation, for sure, but also about curation. I feel like, for me, problem-solving or, like, problem-defining is really interesting. And especially you mentioned, like, my very early stage as a designer, the reason I submitted my work to get an award is because I want to show my problem-solving skill. And I realize nowadays, like, the problem is too complicated. It's not just about solving problems, right? I mean, I feel design is more bigger than that, especially now most of the problems are systematic and complex. Climate change, right? Like, you think about aging, and you think about all this, like, sustainable issues. I feel like designers, like, for me, starting from problem solver, as engineer, and now more I've become like a translator, curator, or even, like, a culture shaper. How do you shape the culture you want, right? Especially now, like, AI it's just, like...that really let me rethink about my role as designer, you know, because everyone can have tons of ideas, but the truth is, like, we have so many ideas, but do you know what good taste is about? Do you know what the good qualities of life's about? So, you have to have some personal experiences to really help people to understand or curate the vision in the future. SAMI: That's really interesting. I struggle to dress my kids in the morning from a design perspective, right? I don't get colors, and I don't understand necessarily how they match and how to get things working. In fact, sometimes I'll dress my kids only to find that my wife has redressed the kids. Things are that bad at home. Do you think then design is something which can be taught, or is it something, like, innate? Is it something, in your own experiences, that it's kind of part of your nature? So, you see the world differently to someone like myself or Jared sees the world. Or could that be something which we could pick up on, you know, and learn about? SHENG-HUNG: Yeah, I definitely think design can be teachable. It's skillable. And I feel like, yeah, people talk about this is, like, a hardcore skill. It's a soft skill. No, I think design is a life skill. It's a human skill. So, that includes like, for example, like, yeah, how do you choose the color? How do you choose the clothes for kids? But also about, like, how do you celebrate the quality of lives, right? How do you, like, have better, like, qualities? And I feel like, I don't know, life skill means, like, team building, creative leadership, knows people, listening to people. And, for me, that's part of design because you're decoding different signals. You understand your life. You perceive different types of noises. Or how do you resonate with other people? And that's a life skill, I think. And I also feel most of the design skills I learned is actually not from school. It's from, like, personal life failure [laughs]. SAMI: That's really interesting. I just want to jump in because I don't know if I fully understand what you mean by signals. Can you just elaborate on that a little bit more? And then, I will bring you back up on personal failures. SHENG-HUNG: Signal is like different ways of seeing things, right? So, for example, like, if I go to wait in line for a free bagel, right? You share this with your friends. What I see is it's a free bagel. But what my friends see is like, oh, probably, like, I don't need to wait in line and so many challenges. You know, I have to, like, oh, why should I get this? But I see very clearly I want a free bagel. So, these are different. It's the same thing but different message mixed up, right? And then, for me, I see design, like, it happens every day. It's a life skill. For example, like, I saw the challenges, but what if we think another perspective to rethink about what kind of challenge [inaudible 06:38] or reframe the right questions, right? And all this, like, mixed all together, it feels like it's not just about drawing beautiful sketches or rendering sexy, you know, ideas. It's all about, like, how do you frame these challenges? How do you look at this? Can you see the question from social aspect, from cultural aspect, or you just see this as a solution-driven approach? JARED: In some cases, I feel, there is an element of subjectivity to the designs, but then we also want to measure the success of a design. Do you have any tips for, like, how you go about putting numbers to what defines success for a particular design? SHENG-HUNG: This is such a great question, especially now my research focus is really on services, you know, service design, experience design. Like, how do you quantify this, right? For example, three of us we go to the restaurant, and I feel it's really, really great restaurant. And probably some people feel no, that's not really great. And then, how do we quantify this, right? And then, I feel it's sometimes, like, really by personal preferences. It's hard to measure. Maybe there will be some sort of, like, a principle direction or criteria we can follow, so, for example, service quality metrics or something, like, based on people's life experiences. I feel it's hard to measure, especially now the design challenge the question it's really complicated. Some people talk about demographic. How do you, like, [inaudible 08:09] design? Like, for example, a participant design process, right? Or, like, inclusiveness. People talk about equity, power, power dynamic. And I think it's less of a measure or quantify. It's more about do you show your respect? Can we be more inclusive in this process? Can we really engage or integrate multiple voices in this design process? And I feel like that kind of shows the flexibility, also, the real flexibility of the design, not just that, oh, we look for one single solution. Because, most of the time, we actually want to design for a solution, but, actually, I feel now the shift is from we try to build the condition to let people land on this condition and solve the problem. So, in the end, we'll be like, yeah, we landed here, and we can solve the problem together collectively. So, something I feel a little bit different, but that's a great question. It's open-ended. Yeah. JARED: Yeah. Thank you. There's a lot to think about there. I want to bring it back to failure because this is something I think about a lot in terms of teaching and learning from history versus learning from your own failure. We have, like, thousands of years of history of failure. You think we have made all the mistakes already, and, oh, it should be easy, right? All we need to do is teach all of the young generation about all of this failure, and then they'll remember not to do it. But in reality, it doesn't really work that way. I find the strength of the argument is oftentimes weak compared to failing yourself and really deeply learning that lesson. I'm curious about your thoughts on that. And then, I'm also curious to hear about some of your, let's call them, best failures. SHENG-HUNG: I personally feel like people fail. They fail forward, not backward. So, even if you fail, you move a little bit. It depends on how crazy, right, and how fast you fail. It's an iterative process. The reason I say learning from failure because from traditional Asian family, Asian students, right? Probably in the past, I would say I raised my hand. I want to learn, or I ask senior people. I want to learn. But, actually, more than that, it says, "I want to experience. I want to be part of it," right? So, you're not becoming the manager because you learn to become a...no, you're in that position, and you learn to be a manager. So, I learned that mindset when I worked at IDEO. And one of the senior design directors told me, "No, you should say, 'I want to experience.'" So, that means that you have fully immersed experiences. And one of the best examples for me is that the first two years I worked at IDEO and IDEO Asia, supporting projects in Tokyo, Shanghai, Singapore offices, and sometimes European, like, office work; the first two years, my confidence almost collapsed. I have to collect my confidence. It's so hard because I'm eager to learn so many things. I didn't beat myself. And then, after two years, I met an amazing, like, design mentor. And I started the things I'm good at as product designer, a tangible designer. I start as product-focused and thinking about whole design process. And then, I start to collect my confidence. And I realized every single project at IDEO or in my life it's a vehicle, you know. And then, you always connect the dots when you're looking backwards. And you realize, oh, this is failure. Let me know what do you mean by client management? What do you mean by, like, teamworking? Because everyone is from so diverse background. And everyone says, "I'm a designer," but they have different interpretation. And how do you communicate it, right? And how do you keep the conversation transparent and also effective, and how do you empower people? And I feel because of that connect the dots process, also, all the things I want to learn, I want to experience it really helps me to grow at the third year or second year in IDEO. And that really makes me think about, oh, wow, I didn't know. I failed completely. And that's really healthy, for me, because you become very strong. At some point, I started to realize, oh, what do you mean by...what does it mean by design consultancy business? What we can sell. Where's our capacity, our limitation? You know, other than just, oh, everything's, like, imaginative conceptual. I kind of know what happened, and I know the boundary. And I know how can I empower people and also the client. SAMI: Yeah, embracing failure is a real strength. At thoughtbot, we kind of...if we're developing products and we're, let's say, designing or coding, whether websites or applications, we have this concept of failing fast. So, the faster you can fail, the quicker you can iterate towards the right solution. And that's something which is difficult to embrace because the first time you do it, I want this to be perfect, and I want to build it in the way that it works. But, actually, you'll spend a lot of time trying to get towards that perfection, and it's much better to ship faster, fail faster, and then get towards the solution. I noticed as well that...well, I read that the one thing you've been recently working on is designed for the aging population, so more specifically, smart homes for the aging populations. Shout out to my parents if they're looking for a smart home. Sorry, mom and dad. SHENG-HUNG: [laughs] SAMI: I've always found, especially my generation, so I'm about...I'm not about; I am 32 years [chuckles] old. So yeah, there's always been, like, a big gap between kind of my generation, the way we've engaged with technology products, the way my parents' generation have been able to. And I imagine a future where my kids are running around in VR headsets, and I'm still, you know, using a basic laptop. I would love to know more about your work kind of in this area and designing for a different sector of the population. SHENG-HUNG: My master thesis and my master project is focused on redesigning, like, smart footwear for aging population, and then that's part of the smart home ecosystem. And I was actually impressed and surprised. It's like most of the sponsors or clients we talk about, like, people [inaudible 14:38] to think about just the product level, so smart like [inaudible 14:43], smart like a door, or smart like, you know, like a bed or a smart, like, alarm clock. People start to think about how can we integrate all this system together? Because, like, for example, if you bought Amazon, you know, versus Apple and all these different devices, the platform is really a problem because the products cannot communicate with each other. And we want to make sure all the products can communicate and support you, or, like, they can at least receive your data or information to give the appropriate response. So, the smart home project starts to think about from ideas to become more like platform integration. IKEA is the best example, right? Like, I think two years ago, they talk about, yeah, they launched their first app, right? Everything is, yeah, it seems like, oh, what's the big deal about this, right? No, but you think of this from the intention perspective to actually connect the whole system together because they want to make sure their internal designer, developer they really can think through their own internal system to make sure everything's connected, interconnected, not just, oh, you do a part of this. We sell this to a certain Asian, and it didn't really connect. So, I feel like when we designed it, it's really from the system perspective to talk about a smart home. And then, regarding of, like, design across [inaudible 16:04] generation, that's really important, actually, because especially now I'm focused on design for retirement. And I shifted to design for longevity. And then, the cool thing about this is, like, we think about our life in terms of age, but, actually, now we need to think about our life in terms of different life stages, different lifestyle. The book called "Stage (Not Age)", means, like, now we cannot even describe people above 100 years old or 85 years. So, we call them future hood, right? So, like, different life stages. And I feel like that really impacts, as designers, the way we design products or interfaces, right? And it has to evolve with people. When you say, for example, if we have, like, a smart, like, a robot in our home, they have to know your personal routine. And you kind of grow, right? For example, oh, I get older. I move slower, or my mobility is different, and it changes. How does that mean to our product or our smart services? And I feel like across different generations, it's really thinking about design for different people in different life stages. And that's really important, not just about financial planning or about your future education, family, community, right? Now people are probably thinking about aging in place. My parents just bought a second home. They're thinking about retirement life. And so, these are things that really impact all aspects of life. And I feel like the idea of one solution for all the era is kind of over because we have to think about not just one solution, multiple solution tailor-made for multiple different people in different life stages. MID-ROLL AD: Are you an entrepreneur or start-up founder looking to gain confidence in the way forward for your idea? At thoughtbot, we know you're tight on time and investment, which is why we've created targeted 1-hour remote workshops to help you develop a concrete plan for your product's next steps. Over four interactive sessions, we work with you on research, product design sprint, critical path, and presentation prep so that you and your team are better equipped with the skills and knowledge for success. Find out how we can help you move the needle at: tbot.io/entrepreneurs. JARED: And, Sheng-Hung, in one of your articles that I was reading about design for longevity, you sort of say that design for aging isn't just about designing for older people, but rather, I think one of your colleagues asked this question, which I really liked, which is, how can inclusive methods build elegant design solutions that work for all? And I find that a really aspirational goal. But one of the things, say, at thoughtbot, when they're building a product, so we often talk about targeting a specific niche or a specific user base because then we can really optimize for them. And so, you're designing something that's elegant, and that works for all. It doesn't sound very easy. It sounds like a good challenge. And I'm curious about how do you go about that, and do you have any examples you can you can share? SHENG-HUNG: Design for all elegantly also seamlessly. Optimize everyone's needs or, like, design process. I feel...because my topic is focused on financial planning, right? And I think about everyone's income level is different. Their investable income asset is also different. We have a different situation, right? Our family issue, the healthcare condition is also different. And I feel like that, also, if we look at this question, we should think about, okay, how do we define design for all, right? Is it universal design, or is it inclusive design? I think there are definitely some, like, basic or fundamental, like, foundation or criteria we need to meet. Like, for example, human-centered, right? Or, like, we think about accessibility for certain technology. What's the threshold for a certain way of use the technology or product? That could be, like, a universal or, like, basic. Like I said, people's life stages are so different. And can we really make sure our product or interfaces is always dynamic, always change? Design for transformation, right? And I feel the ideas of changing is kind of scaring for most people. Because you don't want to, like, you woke up, and you realize your iPhone just update the whole interfaces, and you suddenly don't know how to use it [laughs]. It changed too dramatically. What I mean by change is like, it's a gradual integration process. And I feel that's kind of beautiful. Like, for example, the way I use my bicycle, the biking, right? They can ultimately adjust my speed, recharging, or understand my personal preferences. That could be something I think is powerful for future for providing the right solution, yeah. But also, it's a benefit of this, but also, there's downsides. Like, maybe because of that, we all live our own personal bubbles pretty well, right? Like, oh, yeah, yeah, I read a newspaper. No, you read the newspaper that I curated for you. So, somehow, the information started different [laughs]. So, there's a gap, but I don't know. It's very cool. It's very great, great question. I think there's still...I don't have the exact same answer, but I feel that could be potential for now. Yeah. JARED: Yeah, I really like that. So, it's not just a one-size-fits-all-all, but, like, it's a sort of an elegant transformation over the course of someone's life. We've discussed a few different things like design for longevity. You touched on there, as we were speaking, human-centered design. I know you've made a distinction of humanity-centered design as well, and there's also life-centered design. I wonder if you could give us and our listeners a little rapid-fire explainer of each of them. SHENG-HUNG: Like, when we talk about human-centered design, right? Like, it's, like, a buzzword. And everyone talks about HCD, and most people think, oh, if you got a post-it note, you're, like, a HCD designer. No, like, what does that mean, right [laughs]? It's very cliché. And they're like, oh, yeah, all these, like, HCD designers bring the post-it notes with Sharpies and go to facilitate tons of workshops, and they sit and know people. And I feel it's more than that, right? Human-centered is really, like, put yourself, designers, in the shoes of clients, users, customers, and participants to know their needs, their desire and address their pain point. And I think for human-centered design like Don Norman said in his latest book, it's not just about design as a discipline. It also covers, like, politics, covers, like, ethical issue, culture. It's broader. And, for me, the simplest version is, like, you design with care. You design with human temperature. We create technology with human temperature. That means that we're now for this technology to [inaudible 23:13] technology. We know why we need that technology. So, for example, if you provide the, like, the cell phone to the developing countries, you probably don't want to send, like, the latest cell phone. You want to send them, like, the adequate technology. What I mean by that is like, it's very, like, stereotype, but I'm trying to explain the idea is like, oh, Nokia could be a great option at this point, for example. You can communicate. You don't need, like, crazy, like, AR VR function. You at least can communicate. So, it's adequate. I think that kind of lens is, like, you think about the culture, the needs, economic, social status. And then, you can start to move on and upgrade the devices. And I feel like life-centered is even broader. It's like, can you design something to the lens of cats, your pets, your animals? So, it's really like, it's really...it sounds a little bit like a speculative design. But the truth is, like, we can shift our perspective to different kinds of species, cross-species, not just focus on human, because everything we design definitely starts from also for a human being. But now life-centered is like, it's longer, broader. And then, for me, it also means like, we just talk about life-centered. It's like, really think through all different stages of life, not just, like, focus on one single age or a single stage, too specific, too narrow. It's, like, broader. So, when we talk about life-centered design, LCD, we really think about a lot of different systems, framework. What's the model we can follow? You know, so we're also thinking about policy, about power dynamic, government, ethical issues. So, this, I think, like, it's broader, and it's really large. Sometimes it's pretty vague, for sure. We have to use some cases or really think about in different contexts. Context is really important, designed for different contextual knowledges and needs. SAMI: Yeah, I think that is actually a really helpful understanding. Myself I don't know anything about those concepts, so to kind of get that theoretical understanding and explanation from yourself is really helpful. In a more practical sense, I have a question, which is a very selfish question. The reason it's a selfish question is because I want to know what do you think? When you look at the world through your designer lenses, what do you think is the worst-designed product you've ever seen or come across? And I think I know the answer to this. I think there is a right answer. While you have a think, I'll share my answer. I don't know if you have this because you said you're based in Boston at the moment. And I'm showing you because we're on camera, but I will describe it to the listeners as well is what they've done with bottles now is when you open, like, a Coke bottle, for example, all other beverages are available...Coke, if you want to sponsor us [laughter], we're happy just to mention you. When you take the bottle cap off, it's now connected to the top of the bottle. So, someone has decided...now, I understand the reason behind it. They're saying that it's for recycling. So, when you throw your bottle away, make sure the cap goes with the bottle. But someone has sat there, and they've designed the bottles. So, when you take off the cap, it's still connected to the top of the bottle. And countless times, I'm either pouring into a cup or pouring into my mouth. And that cap is getting in the way. So, the liquid kind of goes into that cap, and it spills on me, or it spills on the table. This is an absolute design failure, a catastrophe in my eyes. That's my worst design that I've come across in real life. Do you have anything you can think of that you look at, and you're like, who designed this? SHENG-HUNG: This is such a great example because I did have similar experiences when I went to Milan Design Week last year. All the plastic bottle is, like, connected. The cap connects with the bottle. And I didn't know that it's on purpose at the very beginning. I thought, how come it's, like, connected? I want to take it out because it's easier for me to drink. And I realized it's not just this one; all of them is the same [laughs]. Yeah, that's a great example. I think, for me, design for failure adapter, for example, you know, adapter, like dongle, right? Like, we have so many different...this guy HDMI cable, the cable for iPhone, and the magnet for my Apple MacBook Pro. That's painful because you try to find, like, when you go to, like, a talk or a speech or try to present something, I think, for me, the easiest way is, like, AirPlay, right, Wi-Fi or Bluetooth to connect to the projector. But in reality, you always need this HDMI cable. And this guy connects with my Mac. There's some problem. It depends on...now I always bring my adapter with me. It's just like, we have that [inaudible 28:04] like, you know, it almost, like, very frequently, if we're meeting, you have to show your screen. How can we design less physical but it's user-friendly, right? People use Mac. People use Apple, use, like, Microsoft. How do you design something like a universal adaptable to everyones, just sharing screen? This is what I need. So, I think this could be one bad design, I think, at this moment [laughs]. SAMI: Yeah, that's a great example as well, and so frustrating. And I wonder if it's, like, a money-making scheme, you know, everyone has their own chargers. And that's a way kind of they make some income as well on the side. Jared, what have you seen in the world? What's your pet peeve? What really grinds your gears? JARED: This was easy for me. It came to me straight away. Any door that has a handle that you can wrap your hand around which signifies it should be pulled that is push. It's just, I mean, what is going on there? It drives me bonkers. SHENG-HUNG: [laughs] SAMI: That is brilliant. I think it's only fair if we flip the question, right? And then, we say, what's the best thing you've seen designed, right? There must be something out there where you've gone, "Oh, that is so useful. That makes so much sense. Why haven't we done that until now?" And have you kind of...I guess this is for Sheng-Hung, like, have you got any inspiration from that sort of thing? SHENG-HUNG: I have to be honest. Like, I really feel like in the past, I'm kind of scared about, like, use your face to unlock your phone. But the more I use it, I feel like, oh my God, this is so convenient. You just look at it. I know it's a bit scary because they have all your biometric data information. I know even you protect under the regular law, but still, I feel like, yeah, it's so seamless connected. And I feel maybe the better answer is like, I feel a great design is, like, to reduce the friction between the transition of devices by devices, right? So, for me, I mean, so interface by interface. So, when I share the data on my phone, what does that mean? From phone to my computer or phone to other people, right? All the different interfaces changing. The less friction, the better. I feel seamless connected. So, you know, AirDrop, super convenient, photos, videos with people, Mac users. But what does that mean for, like, Windows users, right? And so, every platform has their own, like, spec, or criteria. And I feel if the user can feel the seamless friction between these interfaces, for me, that could be a great design solution. JARED: I love that answer. And I love that description of reducing friction. It reminds me a little bit of, I think, my favorite book on UX is by Steve Krug, which is "Don't Make Me Think." And it's just all about doing the simplest thing, reducing confusion, overcoming objections, and reducing friction. So, I really love that. I do have an answer for this one as well. It's a little bit selfish or focused on my own life. So, I have a dog. She's a Welsh Terrier called Rosie. She's just turned one. Whenever we used to go out, you've got to take water for her if it's a hot day. I always used to take a bottle, whether you could unscrew the top or not, I'm not sure, Sami, and, like, a little bowl to put that in, or you use your hands. And, invariably, she's not going to drink all of the water, so you've got waste. You throw that out. The bag gets wet, all of that. Someone has designed this really cool bottle where the top is actually the bowl. It's an all-in-one. And you press a button; the water goes into the bowl. She drinks. Whatever's left, you press the button again, turn it upright. And the water just flows back in into the rest of the bottle. It's such a simple thing. But, like you say, it just reduces that friction. Anytime a problem no longer exists, manual to automatic cars, fight me, I'm all for it. Well, that's a problem solved. That's less friction. That's beauty in the world. SAMI: Yeah, I think it's amazing. When you think about these examples, it really brings out how much of an impact design has. So, you can have the best product in the world, but if you don't get that frictionless design, or you don't get that design that's going to really bring that improvement, it's going to be difficult to make that product a success. And I think there's some, like, when I think about leaders and innovators in this kind of space, so I know you already mentioned IKEA and I think of Apple. And I don't know the answer to this, and maybe our listeners also wonder, like, how do these companies...they seem to keep getting it right. No matter what happens, they seem to set the trends, and they get their design spot-on, and they innovate in that space. How are they so successful in their design? SHENG-HUNG: I think a recent example is like, you know, like, Apple just recently launched the Vision Pro, right? The XR, the goggles. And put the demo time 30 minutes to get in-store experiences. You're booking the demo time with them, the 30 minutes. For me, I wrote an article about it. It is less about the goggle itself. It is about the whole experiences. The time you enter the store, right, and then you're waiting there, who guiding you? The Genius Bar people guiding you. You sit down. You have the prescription and your glasses that get measured, scan the QR code, and find the match [inaudible 33:35] pair of goggles that fit your [inaudible 33:37] of your face. And they put it on. They sit on the side, use the iPad to guiding you, and tell personal experiences or stories. These companies are very design-driven, vision-driven company. They really think about the whole experiences of users, right? And, for me, it's too pricey, for me, the product, obviously, right now. But I have very delightful, positive experiences because of that 30-minute demo. So, I kind of plant the seeds in my heart. Oh, if the second generation or something have discount, I would definitely want to get one for myself. Not really because...it's a great design for sure, but also, the impression I have. And I feel that really, really, like, make a difference, right? It's tiny. It's very subtle. They can, "No, we don't have, like, demo experiences." They can just purely sell the product. But I think they sell something bigger than just product. Branding user experiences, delightful experiences. And I can really feel that, and that's really powerful in the end. JARED: Do you think that that sort of level of design is limited to the companies that can afford it like the big names? Like, obviously, there is a cost dedicated to having the time and to putting the resources to that. Is it always just going to be the big players, or are there things we can do to democratize that availability for the startups, for the SMEs? SHENG-HUNG: I actually think it's about a company's culture. So, another example I would love to share is, like, when we did, like, an inspiration trip in Tokyo, and there's a very famous, like, chain bookstore called Tsutaya bookstore or Tsutaya electrics. So, to my surprise, like, yeah, it's a big bookstore, and we probably think bookstore selling books. No, they're actually selling a lifestyle. So, for example, like, if I want to buy the book around how to use a camera, right, the way they curate it, it's like, yeah, we do have the books around camera, but also, we'll put the real camera, like, near the book. So, they curate the whole experiences. You flip the book. Oh, this is so cool. Thanks, I want to try it. You probably, in the end, you got both. So, very interesting and also very human-centered, like, retail experiences. Why did I say culture? Because when I entered the store, I asked for one book I was looking for. The staff came to me, and she bring two books to me. One is the book I want, unpack. And one is the book...it's the same book, but without the plastic cover. It's brand new. And why she brought two books to me because if I want to buy this book, I not only read inside, but also, I can just get the new one with me to check out. And this is so subtle, right? Because they're not just bringing you, like, the sample. They also bring the final product with you. So, I feel that kind of culture is, like, very strong, customer-centered, think about your needs, think about your next step. So, they kind of plan ahead, and this is so strong message to me. Oh my God, this is such a great design culture, or at least a human-centered culture to think about my needs, my decision-making process. So, I feel connected with that, and I feel like, yes, they have money, but also, like, they really cultivate that culture within the...not just...they also send a message to their customers. SAMI: I feel like, Sheng-Hung, we could speak to you for hours. I mean, you are opening my world and my eyes to a different world of design. I've got one final question for you before we wrap up that I wanted to cover. I've seen from your website, like, you've personally designed products. So, out of all the products you've either designed yourself or you've been involved with, what would you say, and could you describe for us your favorite product that you've designed yourself? SHENG-HUNG: I think my favorite product is, like, I help and re-design, like, Shanghai Library Innovation Space that, for me, is OMG. Oh my God. It's crazy. Like, one single team, my side project and collaborate with the full staff, librarian, the leadership team. What is powerful is, like, library for them in Shanghai, it's a local hub to connect the community and also to teach, to learn for the younger generation how to use the space. For sure, most people use that space for, like, self-studying, you know, activity and all this stuff. But, for me, like, it's so impactful because every single change that means a lot of impact because it's a public space. And also, it's really, really powerful. Like, you think about the decision-making process. You have to think about feasibility, viability, and also desirability, all things to connect together. And it's really hard, not easy process. It took me about a year-long project. And I'm really happy because, in the end, it's really from sketches, concept, prototyping models, all the way they rebuild, modify the design, integrated. And now the new library they build on another area of Shanghai is really based on this model and framework. I'm very happy, and I also feel like, yeah, design can make a positive impact. It's not like a concept. It's real. And it's nice. It's painful, but it's really satisfying, yeah [laughs]. SAMI: That's really cool when you get to a point where you've done something, and then you see people using what you've designed and, like, enjoying that space and benefiting from all that hard work that you've put into. I have to thank you so much for joining us and giving us time today on the Giant Robots On Tour Series of the Giant Robots Smashing Into Other Giant Robots podcast. Our listeners don't know, but you've had about two hours of sleep. SHENG-HUNG: [laughs] Yeah. SAMI: So, it's probably time for you to get back into bed yourself. But that is your dedication to us. It's been an incredible episode and an incredible chat. I finally understand why Jared does not like doors. I myself, you will understand if you see me in the street and I'm tearing a bottle cap off of a bottle, you'll understand why. And we need to sort Sheng-Hung out with more adapters with just a single charger for all his devices. If people want to get a hold of you, Sheng-Hung, where's the best place they can reach out after listening to this podcast? SHENG-HUNG: Yeah, definitely, you can reach out through my personal website portfolio. Yeah, shenghunglee.com. And I'm happy to respond and discuss about design-related topic. Thanks for having me on this podcast. It's very exciting, and hope we can create all the great stuff for our society. SAMI: Pleasure. There's always a challenge I give to my listeners at the end, and it normally is just please hit that subscribe button. Jared has promised me that he will do a shoey if we can double our subscribers by the end of the series. If you don't know what a shoey is, my only advice to you is do not Google it because you do not want to know. You can find notes and a complete transcript for this episode at giantrobots.fm. If you have any questions or comments, you can email us at hosts@giantrobots.fm. This podcast is brought to you by thoughtbot and produced and edited by Mandy Moore. Thanks for listening. See ya. AD: Did you know thoughtbot has a referral program? If you introduce us to someone looking for a design or development partner, we will compensate you if they decide to work with us. More info on our website at: tbot.io/referral. Or you can email us at: referrals@thoughtbot.com with any questions.