Podcasts about Shao

In this special episode, Yvonne Lau shares the rich folklore and herbal wisdom behind Bai Shao (white peony root), one of the most beloved herbs in Chinese medicine.Learn how this elegant plant, central to so many classical formulas, was said to reveal its healing power to the great physician Hua Tuo, not through science alone, but through a mysterious, moonlit encounter.Tune in for a tale of intuition, women's health, and herbal tradition that has lasted over two thousand years.Read her article here: https://www.mayway.com/blogs/articles/bai-shao-herb-origin-storySee our Monthly Practitioner Discounts https://www.mayway.com/monthly-specialsSign up for the Mayway Newsletterhttps://www.mayway.com/newsletter-signupFollow ushttps://www.facebook.com/MaywayHerbs/https://www.instagram.com/maywayherbs/

Are you ready to step into a world where style is personal, bold, and non-binary? In this episode, I chat with Shao Yang, the visionary behind Shao New York, a bespoke suiting brand that's pushing the boundaries of what tailored clothing can be. From creating custom pieces for both men and women to blending tailoring with streetwear, Shao is redefining how we think about fashion and identity. We discuss her journey, the challenges she's overcome in a male-dominated industry, and how she crafts pieces that are as unique as the people who wear them. If you're ready to transform the way you look and feel, or simply want to hear more about Shao's innovative approach to fashion, this episode is for you. Join us as we talk about the future of fashion and how you can start your own journey of self-expression through custom tailoring. “A custom suit isn't really particularly a man's garment or a woman's garment. It is just a piece of garment that you can use to tell your own story.” ~ Shao YangIn this Episode:- Meet Shao Yang- Shao's vision behind tailoring- Breaking gender norms in fashion- The fusion of tailoring and streetwear- Client transformations and personal stories- The custom tailoring process- The flexibility of custom tailoring vs off-the-rack fashion- The unique vision behind Shao's ready-to-wear brand- Inspiration behind Shao's latest collection- Upcoming projects and future plans for Shao New YorkAbout Shao Yang:Shao Yang is a Taiwanese-American fashion designer and the founder of The Tailory New York, a bespoke tailoring atelier renowned for its inclusive approach to custom clothing. After immigrating to the United States at age five, she pursued her passion for fashion design at Parsons School of Design, graduating in 2002. Drawing inspiration from her heritage and a decade of experience in the fashion industry, Shao established The Tailory New York in 2013. Her atelier offers a personalized, gender-neutral suiting experience, catering to individuals across the gender spectrum and emphasizing self-expression through custom garments. Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shaoy/ Website: https://www.thetailorynyc.com/ Connect with me here:

In this episode of K9 Conservationists, Kayla talks with Sage Gustafson and Tiff Shao about the challenging topic of life with high-energy, high-drive, and/or high-arousal dogs who are injured or sick or otherwise cannot physically perform the behaviors that their brains want without causing pain.Links Mentioned in the Episode: Science Highlight: Benefits and limitations of using innovative tools like detection dogs, thermal imaging and drones to increase wildlife carcass finds during health surveillance and management effortsYou can support the K9 Conservationists Podcast by joining our Patreon at patreon.com/k9conservationists.K9 Conservationists Website | Course Waitlist |  Merch | Support Our Work | Facebook | Instagram | TikTok

What happens when entrepreneurial grit meets visionary leadership in a fast-changing tech world? This episode of StrategyCast is packed with real talk on fearless risk-taking, marketing mastery, and how curiosity can power up your career. Get inspired to lead and innovate boldly!And don't forget! You can crush your marketing strategy with just a few minutes a week by signing up for the StrategyCast Newsletter. You'll receive weekly bursts of marketing tips, clips, resources, and a whole lot more. Visit https://strategycast.com/ for more details.==Let's Break It Down==05:51 Entrepreneurship: Optimism Meets Reality08:11 "Entrepreneurial Juggling Act"10:47 Reverse Mentoring for Women16:25 Storytelling's Evolution in Marketing17:38 Democratization of Storytelling21:04 Balancing Scale and Audience Targeting26:03 Cargo: Balancing Startup and Established Company30:19 "Active, Risk-Tolerant Learning"31:49 Invest in Innovation for Virality34:55 Forgiving Oneself for Oversights==Where You Can Find Us==Website: https://strategycast.com/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/strategy_cast/Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/strategycast==Leave a Review==Hey there, StrategyCast fans!If you've found our tips and tricks on marketing strategies helpful in growing your business, we'd be thrilled if you could take a moment to leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. Your feedback not only supports us but also helps others discover how they can elevate their business game!

This episode we pick up the soy sauce/restaurant kid threads with guest Eddie Lo. Now a food professional himself, Eddie talks about growing up in Chinese restaurant and being raised by amazing cooks, including his grandma, who would make him Hong Shao Rou, a braised pork belly dish.  We talk about growing up in Wisconsin and Southern California eating exclusively Chinese food, having a first hamburger in college, and then never looking back on trying new foods.  Eddie shares how his full throttle into new foods led him to cooking classes, traveling for food, and eventually to the businesses he runs today teaching dumpling classes and promoting premium soy sauce Liv Cook Eat.

This week Russ and Clint interview Dr. Steven Shao from California who just loves technology.  The man finds any excuse to bring his Midas anywhere and talk about it including to Japanese customs agents.  We talk about his experience trying to bridge R&D and sales and end users (i.e. dentists) experience at Sprintray and where he thinks the next generation of materials will go.

Grace Shao is a Hong Kong-based writer and analyst, and author of AI Proem on Substack newsletter. She joins Big Technology Podcast to discuss China's rise in artificial intelligence, and whether (and how) it can be a global player. Tune in to hear how China's AI startups are rapidly productizing cutting-edge tech, why it keeps developing open-source models, and why it's surging in robotics. We also cover AI agents like Manus, chip shortages, and the entrepreneurial resurgence transforming Chinese tech culture. Hit play for an essential conversation on China's AI ambitions and their global implications. You can read more from Grace here: https://open.substack.com/pub/aiproem --- Enjoying Big Technology Podcast? Please rate us five stars ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ in your podcast app of choice. For weekly updates on the show, sign up for the pod newsletter on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/newsletters/6901970121829801984/ Want a discount for Big Technology on Substack? Here's 40% off for the first year: https://tinyurl.com/bigtechnology Questions? Feedback? Write to: bigtechnologypodcast@gmail.com

Anna Bono: Monseñor Shao arrestado en China para impedirle asistir a las celebraciones litúrgicas de Semana Santa. Luca Volontè: Semana Santa en Nicaragua. Ortega reprime a la Iglesia. Yucatán se convierte en el estado número 22 de México en aprobar legislación proaborto. Kansas se convierte en el cuarto Estado en exigir educación sobre desarrollo prenatal en las escuelas. El P. Cantera, víctima de la sumisión de la Iglesia al gobierno de Pedro Sánchez. Jurista Utrera-Molina: “La Iglesia está renunciando a defender lo que es propio de todos los católicos”.

On reçoit Eric pour parler et chanter sur AznavourLa chorale de C'tout comme interprète "Emmenez-moi" Avec Sandra, Laurent, Eric, Michidar,Maxime, Shao, Dahu, Aude, Karine, Bibou et Bibounette, Azmar, Papy Al, et un nouveau venu, Michaël Cité dans l'épisode par Eric , "Les tubes de la belle époque" de Mister V https://youtu.be/PHB79sK0YHc?si=RbxnT3WpQ0xdYU2y

Intro (00:00)Is Photography Dead? (01:05)The Rise Of Little Shao (03:45)How Shao Gets The Shot (18:12)The Famous Little Shao Logo (24:33)The Workload & The Team (28:10)Little Shao Is Colourblind? (32:27)Competition Between Photographers (33:40)How To Change The Game (39:20)Different Types Of Photography (50:06)Little Shao (and Sunni's) Photo Archives (54:20)Little Shao on Miniboj (59:48)Working With Red Bull & Crazy Neguin Story (1:04:32)Working With Nikon (1:12:27)Advice For Photographers (1:14:56)Putting On Exhibitions (1:18:05)Sunni On Why Shao Is The GOAT (1:21:30)Juste Debout Package (1:33:15)Outro (1:36:00)

As the leading fee-only wealth advisory firm in Asia, we have always advocated our clients to make life decisions before money decisions, when it comes to their hard-earned money.In this episode of “The Providend Conversation”, we are honoured to have Der Shing and Shao-Ning share their journey from running a business to running a family, with our CEO, Christopher.Der Shing and Shao-Ning reflect on the pivotal moment when they left a typical corporate career path, to start their first business—JobCentral—and the hard lessons they learned along the way. They also discuss the challenges of having their identities closely tied to the business, and how they navigated that journey of self-discovery.Now, as the founders of AngelCentral, one of the fastest-growing angel investment networks in Singapore and Southeast Asia, they continue to make an impact by supporting startups and aspiring entrepreneurs, while balancing the needs of their four growing sons.Through deep conversations with our advisers, you will gain clarity on what matters most in life and what needs to be done to live a good life, both financially and non-financially. This video is a joint production of iFAST TV and Providend, inspired by Christopher's article “To Live the Good Life, Make Life Decision First Before Wealth Decisions”. This video series is now available as a podcast for those who prefer listening on the go.Music courtesy of ItsWatR.The host of this episode, Christopher Tan, is Chief Executive Officer of Providend, Singapore's first fee-only wealth advisory firm and author of the book “Money Wisdom: Simple Truths for Financial Wellness”.The full list of Providend's Money Wisdom podcast episodes from Season 4 can be found here.Did you know that our Providend's Money Wisdom podcast is now available in video format on YouTube? Follow us on our YouTube channel for new episode on Thursday at 8pm.Mentioned in this episode:Subscribe to Our Mailing List Today!If you're interested in getting more of our thought leadership contents, click this link to subscribe to our newsletter today: https://providend.com/#newsletter-subscribe

gsopel song,health talk,sermon.

Nous sommes de retour avec une invitée, que dis-je deux invités de marque! Geckaude vient nous parler de son Michel qu'elle aime tandis que Julien, notre papa, vient lui parler en tant qu'expert de tous les Michels. Et c'est pas fini , puisqu'on accueille un nouveau dans l'équipe en la personne de Laurent qui va nous en dire un peu plus sur les artistes, leurs carrières, et puis il chantera aussi.La chanson finale c'était "Attention mesdames et messieurs" chantée par la joyeuse chorale de c'tout comme, composée pour l'occasion de toute l'équipe et les invités ainsi que Bibou et Bibounette, Aurélien, Papy al, Azmar, Lolly, Ook, Maori, Benjamin, Alexine, Dany, Xp, Walter, Shao, Yannick, Elsa, et Eric

Listen to Octane's Medical Innovation Forum coverage. In this episode, Adam Torres interviews Anthony Shao, Co-Founder & CEO at Darroch Medical Solutions, explore Darroch Medical Solutions and Octane's Medical Innovation Forum. Follow Adam on Instagram at https://www.instagram.com/askadamtorres/ for up to date information on book releases and tour schedule. Apply to be a guest on our podcast: https://missionmatters.lpages.co/podcastguest/ Visit our website: https://missionmatters.com/ More FREE content from Mission Matters here: https://linktr.ee/missionmattersmedia

飛碟聯播網《飛碟早餐 唐湘龍時間》2024.10.10 週四人物單元 御盟集團董事長 邵永添《家書II：暗夜征途》&《無穹‧無盡：邵永添Infinite Voyage：Shao Yung-Tien》個人特展 ※主題：《家書II：暗夜征途》&《無穹‧無盡：邵永添Infinite Voyage：Shao Yung-Tien》個人特展 ※來賓：御盟集團董事長 邵永添 ◎節目介紹： ★《家書II：暗夜征途》 《家書II：暗夜征途》為身兼藝術家與企業家的邵永添先生，2020年9月到2023年5月生命階段紀實。這期間，新冠疫情肆虐，從疫情到國際戰禍，《家書II：暗夜征途》見證21世紀最艱難的時刻，真實還原企業家邵永添承受外在無數挑戰，及面對無法預知何時天明的暗夜，仍以無比堅強的毅力與決心、不斷追光的生命光輝。 全書收錄共181篇書信手稿 （家書），共五個章節： 「面對未知」 、 「韌性撐持」 、 「守得雲開」 、 「破繭而出」 、 「志在十方」，是邵先生回首過去三年、面對大環境險惡、 勇敢前行的「五個歷程」 ，帶領子弟兵迎向未知的大無畏，字句深植人心。 創作是邵先生生命的揮灑、是「畫布上的文章」 。《家書II》精選邵先生 56幅精彩大作，充滿能量的色彩與奔放的線條，是作者堅持絕對自由的靈魂，恣意揮灑，自然成形。與大家分享的不是一幅畫，而是一種面對生命無與倫比的熱情。 ★《無穹‧無盡：邵永添Infinite Voyage：Shao Yung-Tien》個人特展 永添藝術‧金馬賓館當代美術館9月新展《無穹‧無盡：邵永添Infinite Voyage：Shao Yung-Tien》 互動藝術與人工智慧 從新媒體演繹信仰靈動的生命之美 ALIEN Art Centre永添藝術‧金馬賓館當代美術館 (簡稱：永添藝術‧金馬賓館) ，以當代藝術與 時尚設計為策展核心，每年特展屢屢創新突破，總能帶給觀展者耳目一新的感官體驗。 今年9月特展《無穹‧無盡：邵永添Infinite Voyage：Shao Yung-Tien》與台南藝術大學 (簡稱：南藝大) 攜手，以互動藝術與人工智慧，演繹藝術家 邵永添 五十七年的求藝生涯。展區規劃七大主題： (1)《解放純粹意識》：梳理藝術家不同階段的代表作品及探索藝術家的創作起源 (2)《重複與信仰》：呈現藝術家創作重要階段 (3)《畫布上的文章》：以AI人工智慧體現藝術家與作家之間的身分轉換 (4)《一隻眼睛看，另一隻感受》：補捉光與畫面表現的音韻變化，交織出創作者內心世界與大自然的互動聯繫 (5)《踏雪尋念》：顯示構築畫面的創作性質 (6)《繪畫的路徑》：表現藝術家具有表演性質的創作手法以及 (7)《與大自然連接的能力》：演繹四季流轉、結合聲響與光雕的沉浸式藝術體驗。 藝術家邵永添對於信仰與天地的敬虔，內化為身體感知與繪畫之間的共感，本次將透過新媒體藝術再次詮釋信仰的靈動，如動態捕捉系統和人工智慧生成技術，光雕投影和體感互動裝置等，同時還設置了聲音印象展區，結合藝術與現代科技，創造富有深度的觀展體驗。開幕活動上，主張藝術扶植的館長邵雅曼與共同策展人羅禾淋一同以新媒體藝術獎助金，感謝南藝大動畫藝術與影像美學研究所六位學生協力製作本檔展覽，同時，館方也將於二樓美術館咖啡廳ALIEN ALL DAY LOUNGE推出期間限定藍莓塔－「天藍心花開」，概念取材自邵永添畫作原比例的聯名甜點。 《無穹‧無盡：邵永添Infinite Voyage：Shao Yung-Tien》 特展期間：2024.09.11 – 2025.08.31，詳情請洽永添藝術‧金馬賓館當代美術館 官方網頁。 ◎來賓介紹：邵永添 Shao Yung-Tien（1967-） 出生於高雄阿蓮，1985年鳳山商工畢業後，日薪150元任模具工學徒。1987年台灣解嚴隔年，出版第一本著作《細漢吔時陣》，反映當時「出外人」面對大廈林立的現代都市，懷抱夢想離鄉卻不忘台灣五零年代勤勉拓墾的本真。兒時多年負重農耕，加上命運多舛的瀕死經歷，「生亦何歡，死又何懼」成為年少的座右銘。在邵永添的畫中，爆發性的噴濺、不經調合的純色，皆反映其頑強、率直的個性。閱讀邵永添的繪畫，如同閱讀他的人生，幾經更迭的生命歷程，從農民、工人、經商，農工商都走過一輪，遭逢失敗卻又有不輕易放棄的堅持，使得「信仰」成為邵永添生命實踐的動力，亦使得邵永添透過繪畫來追求自身信仰的虔誠，以繪畫成為一種對於神靈與自身儀式性的虔敬。 ▶ 《飛碟早餐》FB粉絲團 https://www.facebook.com/ufobreakfast/ ▶ 飛碟聯播網FB粉絲團 https://www.facebook.com/ufonetwork921/ ▶ 網路線上收聽 http://www.uforadio.com.tw/stream/stream.html ▶ 飛碟APP，讓你收聽零距離 IOS：https://reurl.cc/3jYQMV Android：https://reurl.cc/5GpNbR ▶ 飛碟Podcast SoundOn : https://bit.ly/30Ia8Ti Apple Podcasts : https://apple.co/3jFpP6x Spotify : https://spoti.fi/2CPzneD Google 播客：https://bit.ly/3gCTb3G KKBOX：https://reurl.cc/MZR0K4 -- Hosting provided by SoundOn

飛碟聯播網《飛碟早餐 唐湘龍時間》2024.10.03 週四教育單元 SIM新加坡管理學院台灣區招生主任 Jessy + 新加坡獵頭顧問TY Shao 「2024下半年招生說明會」 ※主題：「2024下半年招生說明會」 ※來賓：SIM新加坡管理學院台灣區招生主任 Jessy + 新加坡獵頭顧問TY Shao ◎節目介紹： 針對新加坡的留學及就業機會進行討論，幫助台灣家長了解子女在新加坡的學習及發展前景。 說明會場次： 10/20 台中場 11/1 高雄場 11/2 台南場 11/3 台北場 12/1 碩士專場 ▶ 《飛碟早餐》FB粉絲團  / ufobreakfast  ▶ 飛碟聯播網FB粉絲團  / ufonetwork921  ▶ 網路線上收聽 http://www.uforadio.com.tw ▶ 飛碟APP，讓你收聽零距離 IOS：https://reurl.cc/3jYQMV Android：https://reurl.cc/5GpNbR ▶ 飛碟Podcast SoundOn : https://bit.ly/30Ia8Ti Apple Podcasts : https://apple.co/3jFpP6x Spotify : https://spoti.fi/2CPzneD Google 播客：https://bit.ly/3gCTb3G KKBOX：https://reurl.cc/MZR0K4 -- Hosting provided by SoundOn

In episode 26, we experience something old, something new, something borrowed, and something blue. Let's see if you can figure out to who/what each of the above applies!

Join Elliot in this episode of Checkpoint Intimates on JOY where he chats with two gaming legends – Teddy Dief (OFK) and Karrie (Shirou) Shao (Pacific Drive) before they arrive... LEARN MORE The post Checkpoint chats with Teddy Dief (OFK) and Karrie (Shirou) Shao (Pacific Drive) appeared first on Checkpoint.

In this week's episode of the 3 Pillars Podcast we will be discussing the popular workout supplement, CREATINE. What is it, what are it's benefits, and who can use it? Let's discuss. SUBSCRIBE TO THE NEW PODCAST CHANNEL HERE: https://www.youtube.com/@3PillarsPodcast God bless you all. Jesus is King. “But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.” ‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭8‬ ‭KJV‬‬ I appreciate all the comments, topic suggestions, and shares! Find the "3 Pillars Podcast" on all major platforms. For more information, visit the 3 Pillars Podcast website: https://3pillarspodcast.wordpress.com/ Don't forget to check out the 3 Pillars Podcast on Goodpods and share your thoughts by leaving a rating and review: https://goodpods.app.link/3X02e8nmIub Please Support Veteran's For Child Rescue: https://vets4childrescue.org/ Stay connected with Joe Russiello and the "Sword of the Spirit" Podcast: https://www.swordofthespiritpodcast.com/ Join the conversation: #3PillarsPodcast References  1. Kreider, R. B., Kalman, D. S., Antonio, J., Ziegenfuss, T. N., Wildman, R., Collins, R., … & Lopez, H. L. (2017). International Society of Sports Nutrition position stand: safety and efficacy of creatine supplementation in exercise, sport, and medicine. Journal of the International Society of Sports Nutrition, 14(1), 18. • This reference provides a comprehensive review of the safety and efficacy of creatine supplementation, supporting its use in various populations. 2. Jäger, R., Purpura, M., Shao, A., Inoue, T., & Kreider, R. B. (2011). Analysis of the efficacy, safety, and regulatory status of novel forms of creatine. Amino Acids, 40(5), 1369-1383. • This study discusses different forms of creatine and their effectiveness, validating the choice of creatine monohydrate as the most researched and proven form. 3. Rawson, E. S., & Volek, J. S. (2003). Effects of creatine supplementation and resistance training on muscle strength and weightlifting performance. Journal of Strength and Conditioning Research, 17(4), 822-831. • This reference highlights the effects of creatine on muscle strength and performance, supporting the article's claims about improved strength and power. 4. Smith, A. E., Fukuda, D. H., Kendall, K. L., & Stout, J. R. (2014). The effects of creatine supplementation on cognitive performance and mood in vegetarians and omnivores. British Journal of Nutrition, 112(5), 722-731. • This study provides evidence for the cognitive benefits of creatine, particularly in vegetarians, which supports the discussion on creatine's effects beyond physical performance. 5. Gualano, B., Roschel, H., Lancha, A. H., Brightbill, C. E., & Rawson, E. S. (2012). In sickness and in health: the widespread application of creatine supplementation. Amino Acids, 43(2), 519-529. • This paper discusses the broad applications of creatine, including its use in older adults and other specific populations, corroborating the section on benefits for specific groups. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/chase-tobin/support

Dr. Shao-cheng (Michael) Sun is an Associate Professor at the Citadel. He is a veteran of the Taiwanese army, retiring as a full colonel.   Dr. Sun is the author of “Hedging China Threat: US-Taiwan Relations Since 1949.“ His research interests are East Asian security and politics, U.S.-China relations, and U.S. security policy in Asia. He teaches East Asian Affairs and International Politics. He explained the importance of the Taiwan Relations Act between the US and Taiwan, and the One-China Policy, which the US has supported since the Carter Administration.  Is it feasible to turn Taiwan into a relationship similar to Hong Kong's in the 1997 Agreement, which is different from the Taiwanese situation?  If there were an armed conflict in the Taiwan Strait, it could radically upend the economic systems around the world, create physical devastation, plus a simulated war exercise showed the US Navy would suffer severe losses.

Our native language can be a touchpoint to our cultural identity. To Jessica Shao, it's much more than that.

In this enlightening episode of the Nifty Thrifty Dentists Podcast, host Dr. Glenn Vo welcomes two distinguished guests: Dr. Steven Shao—a 3D printing expert and practicing dentist at Sunrise Dental Center in California—and Larry Huynh, Vice President of Sales and Business Development at US Dental. Key Takeaways: Dr. Shao believes that 3D printing technology is not just for experts but can be adopted by any dentist willing to learn.3D printing is more than just a dental tool—it's a transformative technology that can enhance various aspects of life and practice.The technology allows for the creation of a wide range of dental products—from night guards and surgical guides to complete dentures and aligners.Implementing 3D printing can significantly reduce costs for procedures like orthodontic aligners, potentially increasing case acceptance and practice growth.Meanwhile, US Dental—represented by Larry Huynh—offers a comprehensive range of digital dentistry solutions, including intraoral scanners, CBCT machines, and 3D printers.US Dental prioritizes thorough testing and validation of all products before offering them to dentists, ensuring reliability and effectiveness.The company emphasizes staff education, requiring all team members to be highly knowledgeable about their products. As a special offer for Nifty Thrifty Dentists group members, US Dental often provides exclusive deals on its range of digital dentistry solutions. For the latest offers and to learn more about how US Dental can enhance your practice's digital capabilities, contact Larry Huynh or visit their website. To get FREE Dental Resources and Deals, click here: https://niftythriftydentists.com/ To join our community of over 55,000 Dental Professionals, click here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/niftythriftydentists

In this episode of the Epigenetics Podcast, we talked with Lothar Schermelleh from the University of Oxford about his work on advanced optical imaging in 3D nuclear organisation.  The interview starts by Lothar Schermelleh sharing his groundbreaking work in understanding chromatin organization using super-resolution microscopy techniques. He then delves into his past experiments, including his publication on imaging chromatin domains and X chromosome inactivation. His work showcases the power of structured illumination microscopy in overcoming diffraction limits, revealing insights into nuclear organization and regulation. Lothar also discusses refining methods for labeling chromosome territories and replication domains, as well as exploring structural and functional nuclear organization using advanced microscopy techniques. They touch on the potential of AI in microscopy, the importance of quality control in imaging, and Lothar's grant proposal for developing artifact-free, super-resolution imaging under cryo conditions with adaptive optics. The conversation emphasizes the intersection of technology development and biological applications, highlighting the importance of addressing specific biological questions through innovative imaging approaches.    References Schermelleh, L., Carlton, P. M., Haase, S., Shao, L., Winoto, L., Kner, P., Burke, B., Cardoso, M. C., Agard, D. A., Gustafsson, M. G., Leonhardt, H., & Sedat, J. W. (2008). Subdiffraction multicolor imaging of the nuclear periphery with 3D structured illumination microscopy. Science (New York, N.Y.), 320(5881), 1332–1336. https://doi.org/10.1126/science.1156947 Schermelleh, L., Heintzmann, R., & Leonhardt, H. (2010). A guide to super-resolution fluorescence microscopy. The Journal of cell biology, 190(2), 165–175. https://doi.org/10.1083/jcb.201002018 Smeets, D., Markaki, Y., Schmid, V. J., Kraus, F., Tattermusch, A., Cerase, A., Sterr, M., Fiedler, S., Demmerle, J., Popken, J., Leonhardt, H., Brockdorff, N., Cremer, T., Schermelleh, L., & Cremer, M. (2014). Three-dimensional super-resolution microscopy of the inactive X chromosome territory reveals a collapse of its active nuclear compartment harboring distinct Xist RNA foci. Epigenetics & chromatin, 7, 8. https://doi.org/10.1186/1756-8935-7-8 Ball, G., Demmerle, J., Kaufmann, R., Davis, I., Dobbie, I. M., & Schermelleh, L. (2015). SIMcheck: a Toolbox for Successful Super-resolution Structured Illumination Microscopy. Scientific reports, 5, 15915. https://doi.org/10.1038/srep15915   Related Episodes Long-Range Transcriptional Control by 3D Chromosome Structure (Luca Giorgetti) Analysis of 3D Chromatin Structure Using Super-Resolution Imaging (Alistair Boettiger)   Contact Epigenetics Podcast on X Epigenetics Podcast on Instagram Epigenetics Podcast on Mastodon Epigenetics Podcast on Bluesky Epigenetics Podcast on Threads Active Motif on X Active Motif on LinkedIn Email: podcast@activemotif.com

The Cello Sherpa Podcast Host, Joel Dallow, interviews cellist Sophie Shao, Assistant Professor of Cello at the University of Connecticut. They talk about her experience attending the Curtis Institute of Music at the age of 13, experience with competing in major competitions, her teaching influences, and much more!For more information on Sophie, visit: https://www.sophieshao.com/You can also find Sophie on Facebook and Instagram: @shaosophie1YouTube: @shaocelloTo Listen to  Sophie's latest  album, CanCan Macabre, visit Apple Music, or Spotify.If you are looking for in person/virtual cello lessons, or orchestral repertoire audition coachings, check out www.theCelloSherpa.comFollow us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube @theCelloSherpaFor more information on our sponsor: www.CLEAResources.com 

At elite high schools in Silicon Valley, the pressure to succeed is intense. And according to Sophia Shao, a former student at Los Altos High School, her proximity to California's tech capital is a big reason why.  In this special collaboration with KQED's Youth Takeover, a yearlong project to highlight compelling stories written and produced by local teens, Shao talks with us about going to school in a place where everyone is expected to excel. This episode first ran on Aug. 15, 2022 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Send us a Text Message.In this episode, Blythe and Yikun Shao, Head of North America Supply Chain at Alibaba.com, discuss how the platform helps small and medium businesses with global sourcing and logistics. Shao highlights Alibaba's AI tools like language translation, image generation for product design, and logistics marketplace. He also details educational resources on trade compliance, managing cross-border shipping challenges, and navigating customs regulations.LINKS:Yikun's LinkedInAlibaba.comQUOTES:"Nearly two thirds of businesses they plan on increasing their reliance on online sourcing, and including those bigger and more established businesses." - Yikun Shao"Using AI capability can also handle real time inquiries from multiple areas and provide even in some instances provide some industry insights, so that our business buyers and sellers can make more informed decisions." - Yikun Shao"We recently launched a smart assistant tool to help facilitate RFQ transaction and communication aspects on our platform. One of the functions is real-time language translation when buyers and sellers are communicating through a video chat, it helps provide translation services in real-time to at least 17 different languages. Since this new RFQ feature has been introduced, it has driven a 29% increase in quotes from suppliers for small businesses." - Yikun ShaoWATCH THE FULL EPISODE HERE---------------------------------------------THANK YOU TO OUR SPONSORS!Are you experienced in freight sales or already an independent freight agent? Listen to our Freight Agent Trenches interview series powered by SPI Logistics to hear directly from the company's agents on how they took the leap and found a home with SPI freight agent program. Tai TMS is designed to streamline your brokerage operations and propel growth for both FTL and LTL shipment cycles. Book a demo with the Tai team today and tell them Everything is Logistics sent you. Maximize your website's performance as a sales tool with Digital Dispatch's website management.

Welcome to The Patch Cast: An Indie Gaming Podcast the official podcast of your favourite indie gaming magazine Patch. Join host Kyle Federline this week with co-host guest Karrington Martin as we talk with the wonderful Karrie Shao about her work within the gaming industry and what her workload was like whilst working on Pacific Drive. Karrie's X Account: X Pacific Drive For all things Patch Magazine head to our official website but clicking the link below where you can find our social media links and most importantly subscribe to the physical or digital monthly magazine. ⁠Patch Magazine Official Website⁠ ⁠Magazine Subscriptions Please be sure to leave a good review if you enjoyed this podcast.

On the latest episode of ‘New Classical Tracks,' cellist Sophie Shao celebrates the joy of life through music inspired by France on her second solo album alongside pianists Ieva Jokubaviciute and Adrienne Kim titled ‘CanCan Macabre.' Find out more!

Click here to submit to the Thriller 101 Pitch ContestThriller 101 NewsletterLearn more about M.E. ShaoEllie Monago EpisodeConnect with David on TwitterEPISODE INFO:On the Thriller 101 podcast, we hear a lot from authors who are published. I also get the opportunity to share writers who are submitting to agents through the Thriller 101 pitch contest.However, it's rare that we get to hear from someone who's in the middle of that publishing process.. My guest today has signed with an indie press and his book comes out in 2024, but he's in the process of editing and revising before the book can go to publication.  This is an interesting perspective that, honestly, as writers, we can learn a lot from and we don't hear enough about.BIO:Born in Baltimore, MD, Matt Shao, who writes under the pen name M.E. Shao, grew up in a suburb of Music City in what was then a very small town called Mount Juliet, TN. He attended the local public high school before being recruited to play baseball at nearby Nashville's Vanderbilt University. Graduating in Spring of 2009 with a degree in Economics and Corporate Strategy, he still carries the life lessons and influence inspired by legendary college ball coach Tim Corbin. Matt first began writing in August of 2015, immediately following the loss of his beloved mother, Elizabeth Louise. His debut work, a science fiction novel entitled "Continuity", was published in April 2016, and was followed by a sequel called “Continuity: Coalescence” two years later. The two books have since been compiled into one installment as the first in what will become a series, and is scheduled for release in December of 2024 care of Wild Ink Publishing, LLC.Matt's writing portfolio includes columns & short stories for newspapers, published poetry, business copy, and more. His freely available content can be found on his website, howtheworldshouldwork.Tweet me @DavidRGwyn

⁠Support this show! This week, we're talking to Nico MacDougall and returning guest Tan Shao Han about The Awards, an alternative tabletop RPG awards project. Show Notes: 03:56 Introductions 13:31 Being a judge 16:09 The process of picking a winner 21:30 Who should be a judge? 25:36 Infectious Enthusiasm 27:59 Tyranny of Numbers: Breaking down submissions to the Awards 31:02 All Advice is Advice for Myself

Welcome back to the Pear Healthcare Playbook! Every week, we'll be getting to know trailblazing healthcare leaders and dive into building a digital health business from 0 to 1. Today, we're so excited to get to know Wei-Li Shao, President of Omada, a virtual care program that blends human experiences technology and behavior science to help people with chronic conditions achieve their healthy goals. With over 25 years of global healthcare experience, Wei-Li has worked in digital care, biopharmaceuticals, imaging, and diagnostics spanning many therapeutic areas. Before joining Omada, Wei-Li held prominent executive roles at Eli Lilly and Company in the USA, China, Taiwan, and New Zealand. His educational background includes dual degrees in biochemistry and molecular biology from the University of Wisconsin Madison, complemented by an MBA in marketing from the Kellogg School of Business. In this episode, we discuss Omada Health's core operations, discuss the optimal timing for startups to bring in C-suite executives, explore Omada's journey to serving 1 million members, examine its pioneering work in the GLP-1 (Glucagon-Like Peptide-1) space, and uncover how Omada leverages AI to enhance its services.

EXCLUSIVE: Omada Health's Wei-Li Shao on Amazon Partnership. Wei-Li Shao, President of Omada Health, joins us to discuss Omada's big splash: being named Amazon's first partner for their new Health Condition programs for managing chronic conditions. Wei-Li shares how this partnership is keeping the human element of healthcare front and center, and how designing experiences outside of the doctor's office is leading to real behavior change at scale.  All that, plus the Flava of the Week about Best Buy Health's year in review. Which of their highlights slipped under the radar in 2023, and what are they showing us by doubling down on home health and consumer wellness products?  Find all of our network podcasts on your favorite podcast platforms and be sure to subscribe and like us. Learn more at www.healthcarenowradio.com/listen/

Wei-Li Shao, President of Omada Health, joins us to discuss Omada's big splash: being named Amazon's first partner for their new Health Condition programs for managing chronic conditions. Wei-Li shares how this partnership is keeping the human element of healthcare front and center, and how designing experiences outside of the doctor's office is leading to real behavior change at scale.  All that, plus the Flava of the Week about Best Buy Health's year in review. Which of their highlights slipped under the radar in 2023, and what are they showing us by doubling down on home health and consumer wellness products?  This show is produced by Shift Forward Health, the consumer advisory firm that partners with you to operationalize consumer-first health. (#304)See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

【聊了什么The What】 有人说Bottoms 垫底俱乐部是一部高校性转版的《搏击俱乐部》，但其实远远不止如此。它荒诞离奇，充满暴力和一些隐藏的不算太深的讽刺和哲思，是适合我们这个时代的美国高校喜剧电影。 故事围绕着Josie和PJ这一对好友展开，她们是这所美国高中食物链的底层，不只是因为她们是拉拉，而是用她们自己的话来说：“gay，ugly and untalented”。在高三毕业前的最后一年这对好友决心突破自己，互为僚机泡到全校最受欢迎的拉拉队队员，而她们达成目标的方式就是阴差阳错组建了这个高中第一个女子搏击俱乐部。 这一期，小蓝和四位酷儿/Gen Z/Older Millennial朋友们，也是一档全新的女权喜剧播客《大波福娃》的主播们，一起聊了聊这部酷儿青少年校园“发烧梦”。 Some say "Bottoms" is a high-school-themed, gender-flipped version of "Fight Club," but it's far more than that. It's a bizarre and whimsical journey, filled with violence and some blazen satire and not-so-subtle philosophical musings— a perfect update of the high school comedy genre fit for our times. The story revolves around Josie and PJ, a dynamic duo situated at the bottom rung of the American high school social ladder. Their struggles extend beyond being lesbians; in their own words, they're "gay, ugly, and untalented." In their final year before graduating high school, this determined pair sets out to break free from their constraints to date the two most popular cheerleaders in the school. Their unconventional method? Accidentally forming the first all-female fight club in the high school. In this episode, Xiaolan and her four queer/Gen Z/Older Millennial friends, who are the hosts of the brand-new feminist comedy podcast "Dat Beauvoir," convene to chat about this queer teenage "fever dream." 本期参与录制的有： 桃子（she/her）：一个还没出道就隐退了的业余脱口秀演员，精通捆粽子和翻花绳 跑跑（they/them）：工匠/小丑/人民教师/高科技亚逼（消歧义），尊重且热爱谐音梗，老龄 Z 世代。 小苕 (it/its)：一颗零零后坡塔头，咖喱牛腩里的薯仔，地三鲜里的土豆 Nancy (she/her)：惨惨的博士僧，是一个older millennial中年人 Sis Peach (she/her): I have a Golden retriever, a plush dog with an imaginary ESA vest. Runrun (they/them): local shop tech / clown / adjunct / computer beep boops, pun always intended. Shao (it/its): A potato with Chinese characteristics. Can't be fried or smashed. Nancy (she/her): a struggling PhD, older millennial 【时间轴 The When】 00:00 对电影的初印象：高校性转版的《搏击俱乐部》? 10:46 电影里的主要女性角色 33:51 时空错乱美学：Y2K的视觉叠加在2023年的观念上 43:30 美国高校电影和我们的酷儿启蒙 54:48 为什么这部电影里的暴力如此令人心旷神怡（？） 01:15:54 这个电影吃了几个性别研究博士生？ 01:32:58 今夏其他破破烂烂间歇发疯但是歌颂暖心女性友谊的喜剧电影 00:00 Initial Impressions of the Movie: A Gender-Swap High School Version of "Fight Club"? 10:46 Deep dive on our favorite characters 33:51 Aesthetic of Temporal Disarray: Y2K Visuals Superimposed on 2023 Concepts 43:30 American High School Movies and Our Queer Enlightenment 54:48 Why the Violence in This Movie is So Delightfully Liberating (?) 01:15:54 This Film is a Gender Studies Love Fest 01:32:58 Other Ragged, Intermittently Insane, Yet Heartwarming Comedies Celebrating Female Friendship This Summer 【拓展链接 The Links】 大波福娃 ‘Bottoms' Review: Physical Education Getting So High That You Think You're Going to Die - Ayo Edebiri - Taking the Stage Sabrina Wu - Hot Girl Impression 【疲惫红书 CyberRed】 除了播客以外，疲惫娇娃的几个女的在小红书上开了官方账号，我们会不定期发布【疲惫在读】、【疲惫在看】、【疲惫旅行】、【疲惫Vlog】等等更加轻盈、好玩、实验性质的内容。如果你想知道除了播客以外我们在关注什么，快来小红书评论区和我们互动。 Apart from the podcast, we have set up an official account on Xiaohongshu. We will periodically post content such as “CyberPink Reading,” “CyberPink Watching,” “CyberPink Traveling,” “CyberPink Vlog,” and more. Those are lighter, more fun and more experimental stuff about our lives. Leave us some comments on Xiaohongshu! 【买咖啡 Please Support Us】 如果喜欢这期节目并愿意想要给我们买杯咖啡： 海外用户：https://www.patreon.com/cyberpinkfm 海内用户：https://afdian.net/@cyberpinkfm 商务合作邮箱：cyberpinkfm@gmail.com 商务合作微信：CyberPink2022 If you like our show and want to support us, please consider the following: Those Abroad: https://www.patreon.com/cyberpinkfm Those in China: https://afdian.net/@cyberpinkfm Business Inquiries Email: cyberpinkfm@gmail.com Business Inquiries WeChat: CyberPink2022

Jess Gillam and flautist Daniel Shao play each other their current favourite music. Daniel is a versatile musician, at home in the classical repertory with a number of leading orchestras, or performing contemporary music and exploring his Chinese heritage with the group Tangram. Daniel's choices include Britten, Whitney Houston, and music for the flute by Ibert.Today's choices:Britten - Dawn from 4 Sea Interludes (BBC Philharmonic, Edward Gardner) Gluck - Dance of the Furies from Orfeo ed Euridice (Orpheus Chamber Orchestra) Joanna Newsom - The Book of Right-On Tim Buckley - Song to the Siren Ibert - Flute concerto, 2nd mvt (Clara Andrada, Frankfurt Radio Symphony, Jaime Martín) Hildegard of Bingen - Ancient Suite (Martin Fröst, The Adolf Fredrik's Girls Choir) Whitney Houston - Didn't we almost have it all Cleo Sol - 23

"I wanna be worldwide with this but Japan is the dream" - Shao DowIn this episode we speak to music, manga author, ninga and content creator Shao Dow on his potential upcomig Japan tour as well as his invite to perform at Anime NYC!This was a quick one but an important one, please do support Shao Dow if you can, feel free to go an listen to his music or even listen to the episode we first did with him if you want to get to know him a little better. Genki Dama! - This is the link to go & support. Remember he is providing a lot more back in terms of beneifts across each tier. Link also here to support in case hyper link does not show on the Genki Dama - https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/shao-dow/shao-dow-project-genki-dama-2024 If you want to listen and learn more about Shao Dow - Shao Dow on Suuper Anime Podcast episode  - Sharingan Lets support our fellow weeb, if you can please do lend him your energy and support with any donation that you can afford. You will also recieve some thing in return. Please in whatever app you listen to your podcast. If there is a chance to, please rate Suuuper Anime Podcast 5 Stars! We would very much appreciate it. Thank You! Ed & SoloSupport the show

Our native language can be a touchpoint to our cultural identity. To Jessica Shao, it's much more than that.

Vic Shao, President, bp pulse fleet joined Grayson Brulte on The Road to Autonomy podcast to discuss fleet charging as a service. The conversation begins with Vic discussing bp pulse's electric vehicle fleet charging strategy, the importance of up-time and reliability. To ensure the up-time for partners such as Hertz, bp has developed a software layer that monitors the health of the charging infrastructure to ensure optimal up-time.Software is the enablement tool that makes it efficient and reliable. – Vic Shao The charging stations that bp is installing for Hertz will be open to the public and located at high traffic locations such as city centers and airports. At airport locations, rideshare drivers will be able to access the chargers and charge their vehicles while they wait for passenger pick-ups. By early 2024, 25 locations in several states will be online. As a traditional oil and gas business, bp pulse is complimenting the core business by expanding into new fuel types.bp looks at electrification as just another fuel type. It's a really attractive fuel type for any number of reasons, but it's another fuel type. In the future bp is also going to go into hydrogen. – Vic Shao As fleet managers begin the process of transitioning their fleets from internal combustion engine vehicles to electric vehicles, economics are driving the decision process. The cost to transition large fleets to electric vehicles is expensive as it requires all-new vehicles along with a complex network of charging equipment. bp has a solution that will enable fleets to convert to electric without the upfront charging infrastructure capital expenditure — charging as a service. One of the big upsides to charging as a service is scalability and upgradability. As NACS (North American Charging Standard) becomes the de facto charging plug standard as the CCS plug is slowly faded out, the charging infrastructure will be upgraded to support the new plug.A large opportunity for charging as a service are ports that have drayage operations that operate on fixed daily routes. A lot of these drayage operations are operated by smaller carriers who might not necessarily have the financial wherewithal to invest in fleet charging. With charging as a service, these fleets will have the ability to transition to electric trucks without the capital expenditure.By 2030, bp is on track to have over 100,000 electric vehicle charging stations online. Wrapping up the conversation, Vic shares his opinion on the future of electric vehicle fleet charging.Follow The Road To Autonomy on Apple PodcastsFollow The Road to Autonomy on Spotify Follow The Road To Autonomy on LinkedInFollow The Road To Autonomy on TwitterRecorded on Thursday, August 24, 2023See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Gamescom brought us trailers for bother Mortal Kombat 1 with Sindel, Shao and Raiden, then Tekken 8 with a release date.

In 2014, Iowa State University student Shao Tong disappeared after a weekend trip with her boyfriend. Listen in as Ericka and Abby discuss the investigation that led to an international trial.  Sources: https://inf.news/en/world/c9393845e55a87b7a32d42d6f2f6afad.html https://www.press-citizen.com/story/news/crime-and-courts/2016/07/01/how-tong-shaos-killer-brought-justice/86546758/ https://www.cnn.com/2016/06/22/asia/china-iowa-student-murder-sentence/index.html https://iowastatedaily.com/68465/news/update-suspect-in-tong-shao-death-pleads-guilty/ https://iowastatedaily.com/94245/news/affidavit-reveals-more-details-in-tong-shao-case-death-ruled-murder/ https://www.imdb.com/title/tt4189570/ --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/crimeovercoffee/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/crimeovercoffee/support

Last time we spoke about the escalating situation in China involving foreigners and the emerging Yihequan Boxers. The incident in Liyuantun had reached a boiling point between the Yihequan and Christian's backed by foreign actors. As hard as the Qing government tried to intermediate, they simply could not stop the boxer movement from growing. Boxers were gathering en masse in Shandong and Zhili trying to fight back against what they saw as a foreign enemy. Fight they did, but in the end the Qing government was forced to stamp down upon the ring leaders behind the multiple boxing groups until a peace was finally restored in troublesome Shandong. Yet while the Boxers went home as they say, were they truly done? The scramble for China had created a new type of enemy, one not so easily controlled and soon would make themselves heard loud and clear.    #60 Spirit Boxers & the battle at Senluo Temple   Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on history of asia and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War. And so the struggle over the temple at Liyuantun had finally come to an end, peace was restored, or was it? China was still being carved up by the great powers, the christians and missionaries were still running amok and in 1898 Emperor Guangxu began his “one hundred days of reform”. A rising star within the Qing court named Kang Youwei had begun pushing progressive reforms upon the emperor. The self strengthening movement we talked about a long time ago had focused on military matters, but laced governmental and societal reforms. These limitations were showcased horribly with China's defeat during the First Sino-Japanese War when China was forced yet again to abide by unequal treaties and now the other great powers were literally tearing her apart. The abysmal situation led to the perfect grounds for individuals like Kang Youwei and the Qing politician Liang Qichao to advocate for some rather drastic reforms, many of which the Emperor agreed to. Kang Youwei sought a blend of New Text Confucianism and western inspired modernization, in some ways it was like a Meiji restoration. It should be no surprise Kang Youwei sought such a thing, as he studied in Japan and was an avid reader of western literature. Kang Youwei wrote to the emperor “China is confronted with the gravest danger in her history” and his reply was an unprecedented two and a half audience with the Emperor. According to an eyewitness, a scholar present, the Emperor complained to Kang Youwei that the conservatives in the Qing court were ruining China with inaction. To this Kang Youwei agreed and kept pressuring the emperor the need for radical change. “You, the Emperor, I would ask you to remove yourself from the seclusion in which you live. COme boldly forward”. Well that is just what Emperor Guangxu did. A stream of imperial edicts called for changes to the examination system to stress practical studies; to reorganize and modernize the military; to establish a bureau for agriculture, industry, commerce; to translate and print more western books; to build a modern education system; to change the absolute monarchy to a constitutional monarchy, the list could go on and on, but I think you get the picture, think more modern. Between June and September of 1898 he had issued some 40 imperial edicts. This all resulted in a great divide within the Qing court between the reformers and conservatives. To the conservatives, it was simply heresy to overthrow China's traditional laws and customs, for some they believed it was all some sort of evil plot concocted by foreign powers as a means of carving up China further. Such was the thinking of Prince Duan, he was basically the leader of the conservatives in the Qing Court and very loyal to Empress Dowager Cixi. He suspected the reforms were a plot designed by foreign advisors like Timothy Richards and Ito Hirobumi.  The speed and radical nature of the ideas scared the hell out of the conservatives. Empress Dowager Cixi at first appearance to acquiesce towards her nephews reform program, he had turned 27 and was officially in charge, wink wink as they say. Cixi had temporarily retreated to the Summer palace under the guise she was retiring. However as Guangxu's reforms began to touch on some lets say, more sensitive topics like the abolition of sinecures, that being positions within the Qing dynasty that provided little work but good salaries, well she did not like that.  At this point there are two stories about plots between Guangxu and Cixi. One has it Guangxu acted first, the other has it being Cixi, regardless both did plot against another. Cixi thought the reforms were too drastic so she plotted to restore her regency via a coup d'etat. Now either Guangxu just assumed she was going to do this, or someone leaked the plot to him, but he acted swiftly against her. He asked his two greatest reformer allies, Kang Youmei and Tan Sitong to devise a plan to thwart Cixi. The plan called for arrested Cixi, basically forcing her into house arrest, pretty typical Qing royal family stuff. However the agent of these plans was terribly chosen. Yuan Shikai, someone boy oh boy I have written a lot about on my personal channel, the pacific war channel cough cough check out my warlord series, well he seems to have been working for both sides or was legitimately loyal to Cixi.  Guangxu planned to use Yuan Shikai not just to arrest Cixi, but perhaps also to kill the Manchu General Ronglu who was currently spearheading the coup d'etat for Cixi. Instead of going over to stop or kill him, Yuan Shikai literally just told Ronglu everything about Guangxu's plot. It's alleged Yuan Shikai took a train on September 20th of 1898, arriving to Tianjin where he spoke to Ronglu, thus exposing the plot. Ronglu acted swiftly by taking an army into the Forbidden city at dawn on september 21st and placed Emperor Guangxu under house arrest. Eunuchs literally burst into the Emperor's room and he was imprisoned on an island known as the Ocean Terrace in a lake near the west wall of the Forbidden city. Yuan Shikai was appointed Governor of Shandong Province and went on his merry way. Kang Youwei fled into exile leaving behind some of his closest disciples and allies in Beijing who would become known as “the 6 martyrs or also known as the 6 gentlemen of Wuxu”. These being Tan Sitong, Kang Guangren, Lin Xu, Yang Shenxiu, Yang Rui and Liu Guangdi. Why were they called martyrs you may ask, well Cixi had them beheaded on September 28th at Caishikou in Beijing. It is alleged, she did this primarily because a few of them were planning to infiltrate her residence and assassinate her. They also happened to be the most prominent reformers apart from their leader Kang Youwei who had managed to flee to Japan. An imperial proclamation was made stating “the Emperor being ill, the empress dowager has resumed the regency”. Rumors began to spread that Guangxu had been murdered or was going to be executed. Sir Claude MacDonald even warned the Qing government that the foreign powers would view Guangxu's execution “with extreme disfavor” and followed this up by sending a French doctor to see if Guangxu was alive and well. Things looked horrible in Beijing, but it was getting even worse in places like Shandong. Shandong had been facing fiscal crisis after fiscal crisis, but with the foreign powers carving up China, things really took a turn for the worse at end of the 1890s. The Yellow River was flooding, the second sino-japanese war had hit her hard and the foreigners, particularly Germany were carving chunks out of her and exploiting them. The Qing government was increasing taxes to pay for all the problems and the commoners were being hit hard. In the year of 1898, it looked like Shandong was going to face a prolonged famine. A salt smuggler named Tong Zhenqing began leading a band of 400 bandits carrying small red flags around the border area of Shandong and Jaingsu. They stole grain and cattle, not something out of the norm for the area, but their flags carried slogans stating “smash western learning”. It is alleged the group sought to find the Big Sword Society, but before they did the Qing forces managed to surround them, killing a few and arresting others. Tong's little insurgency fell, but then in the closeby village of Dangshan another similar force rose up with flags bearing the slogan “couplet about destroying the catholics”. The Qing yet again sent military units to quell the insurrection quickly. Though these little rebel groups were quelled quickly, it seemed such bandits were only getting bolder and bolder.  Empress Dowager Cixi appointed General Ronglu as the new minister of War. He was also in charge of reforming the metropolitan armies to keep the peace and quickly formed the new “Wuwei Corps”. Their official job was to protect Beijing and they were western trained and equipped with modern western weaponry. They would consist of 5 divisions led by some of China's present and future heavy hitters, Ronglu, Nie Shicheng, Song Qing, Yuan Shikai and Dong Fuxiang. Dong Fuxiang alongside Ma Anliang, Ma Haiyan, Ma Fulu and Ma Fuxiang had been brought over from the northwest leading a force around 10,000 strong. The muslim troops were nicknamed the “kansu braves”. In July of 1898 as they made their way to the capital, Dong Fuxiangs men attacked some churches in Baoding. Indeed Dong Fuxiang unlike his other colleagues was publicly hostile towards foreigners. Westerners would go on to describe his force as the “10,000 islamic rabble. A disorderly rabble of 10,000 men, most of whom were mohammedans. 10,000 mohammedan cutthroats feared by even the chinese”.  Antiforeign riots sprang up, particularly in Beijing around the foreign legation quarter. The situation became so serious, foreign diplomats began summoning forces from nearby foreign fleets to help defend the foreign community in Beijing. This only increased the tension bringing about further incidents in late september and early october of 1898. Soldiers from the brand new United States marine corps were called over to help the foreign community in Beijing. By late october rumors began to circulate the kansu army were going to kill all the foreigners in Beijing! On October 23rd it was said “troops are to act tomorrow when all foreigners in Peking are to be wiped out and the olden age return for China”. Dong Fuxiang's men were causing such chaos, Empress Dowager Cixi ordered the Kansu army to be transferred over to Nanyuan. Dong Fuxiang forces went over there only to cause violence towards railway workers near the Marco Polo Bridge nearly killing two british engineer. As described to us by Minister MacDonald's cable to London on October 28th of 1898 "A serious menace to the safety of Europeans is the presence of some 10,000 soldiers, who have come from the Province of Kansu, and are to be quartered in the hunting park, two miles south of Peking. A party of these soldiers made a savage assault on four Europeans, who were last Sunday visiting the railway line at Lukou Chiao. The foreign Ministers will meet this morning to protest against these outrages. I shall see the Yamcm to-day, and propose to demand that the force of soldiers shall be removed to another province, and that the offenders shall be rigorously dealt with." On the 29th he telegraphed again: "The Foreign Representatives met yesterday, and drafted a note to the Yamfin demanding that the Kansu troops should be withdrawn at once. The troops in question have not been paid for some months, and are in a semi-mutinous state. They have declared their intention to drive all Europeans out of the north of China, and have cut the telegraph wires and destroyed portions of the railway line between Lukouchiao and Paoting Fu. Some disturbances have been caused by them on the railway to Tien-tsin, but the line has not been touched, and traffic has not been interrupted. In the city here all is quiet. The presence of these troops in the immediate vicinity of Peking undoubtedly constitutes a serious danger to all Europeans. The Yamfin gave me a promise that the force should be removed, but have not yet carried it into effect." The great powers had enough of the Kansu issue and demanded Dong Fuxiang's force be removed from the Beijing area completely, and the Qing acquiesced. Then in early 1899 the violence shifted from the Beijing area to the foreign concessions. In February, Russian troops killed 47 and injured 51 Chinese over a tax dispute in the Liaodong peninsula. The following month, the Germans launched a punitive expedition into southeastern shandong. In april the British killed several Chinese during some disputes around Hong Kong. And Italy again trying to join the scramble for China, began demanding rights to Sanmenwan island off the coast of Zhejiang. Italy went as far as to dispatch some warships to threaten the Qing, but Shandong troops put up a defense of the islands, haha Italy get rekt again. On May 28th, Robert Hart wrote back to London from Beijing “I have been worried—I can't tell you how much!—by the troubles of China. British doings at Kowloon have been very aggravating: Russian demand for Peking-railway has been a thunderbolt: German action and military movements in Shantung have outraged the people: and everywhere there is a feeling of uneasiness spreading.... [There are lots of rowdies among every thousand men and the proof that their own Govt, is weak, as shown by the inroads of foreigners, will encourage their natural rowdyism, while, instead of seeing superior civilization in the foreigner, they will regard him as simply another rowdy and chip in for their share of what disorder can wring from weakness. Some Chinese say that revolt and disorder are fast coming on—that the rioters will wipe out every foreigner they come across—that, regardless of consequences every province will follow suit and such anarchy and bloodshed follow that for years and years industry and commerce will all disappear: how will that suit the west?” After the Juye incident, the number of churches and converts in Shandong increased and with it more conflicts flared up. In late 1898 to early 1899 anti-christian incidents spread like wildfire from east to western shandong. Our old friend George Stenz got embroiled in a new incident in the market town of Jietouzhuang in november of 1898. Stenz had allegedly called in German troops to stop some charges placed upon his converts and this led to a mob rising up against him. Simultaneously in the nearby villages along the Rizhao-Juzhou border, American Presbyterians were attacked. Apparently both incidents may have been linked to an emerging rumor that the Empress Dowager was calling for an expulsion of the foreigners and their christian converts. This rumor was false, in fact she had made edicts to protect missionaries. But such rumors simply represented the feelings of the time and attacks upon Christians increased in places like Juzhou, Yishui and Lanshan throughout November and december.  George Stenz was kidnapped by a mob and the German forces hurried to his rescue, demanding reparations for his kidnapping. Another incident occurred prompting Berlin to order two units to dispatch from Qingdao who went on a punitive expedition seeing 39 houses burnt down in Lanshan. Another unit was led personally by Stenz to the city of Rizhao where the Germans demanded a payment settlement for all the incidents before they all returned to Qingdao in late may. All of these actions were quite an escalation. While the foreign powers definitely were using gunboat diplomacy in the 1890's, typically when they tried to influence anything they would do so indirectly, through the Qing for example. But now more and more they were physically barging into the country and using force themselves. On April 11th of 1899, Yuxian received the governorship of Shandong and his immediate problem to fix was controlling the foreigners and their christian allies. Yuxian has often been perceived to be conservative and anti-foreign. He was a Manchu of the yellow banner and we spoke about how he quelled the Big Sword Society years prior. He had a reputation as being tough and efficient. When he took the job he immediately went to work trying to please the Germans so they would back off, but instead they kept using brute force to quell more and more incidents. Some anti foreign protests broke out in early July and the Germans sent troops who killed 13 and injured 8 Chinese. Simultaneously the Germans began practicing amphibious assaults near Dengzhou, prompting Yuxian to believe they intended to seize more territory. Yuxian tried to protest in his own ways, he began demanding the Germans show evidence of incidents and take responsibility for damage they did. Yuxian sent word to the Zongli Yamen demanded he instruct the Chinese minister in Berlin to ask the German commanders in Qingdao be replaced. Now while Yuxian was battling it out with the Germans, a series of anti-christian incidents heated up around Rizhao. The cause of these as told to us by Yuxian “the gentry and people everywhere are outraged at the German's unprovoked murder and arson”. News of foreign encroachment and rumors spread from town to town across shandong. Then in Jining and incident took place as a result of Christians abusing locals by taxing and fining banquets and such. This led to the rise of a new group of boxers who fought back. The Daotai of southern shandong Peng Yu-sun wrote this of the incident.  “These [factors] are the source of the rise of the Red Boxers (Hong-quan) and other boxing groups. The Big Sword Society has long existed in Caozhou. Because they disliked the name as infelicitous, they changed it to Red Boxer, United in Righteousness [here written with the characters Ho'], Charm Boxing (Jue-zi) or Red School (Hong-men). The names multiplied, and they studied [boxing] techniques. Their methods include promising the gods not to covet children or wealth. They swallow charms and chant spells to be able to resist guns and swords. The main charms with which they dazzle people are very common, wild, and heterodox. They say they are protecting themselves and their families, but secretly they certainly seek to feud with the Christians. They spread the practices everywhere, the same in every village. Because it is simple and easy to learn, it can rouse the common people as surely as beating a drum.” Two boxer leaders emerged, Shao Shixuan and Chen Zhaoju. Shao Shixuan was from Feng county of Jiangsu and had ties to the Big Swords. Chen Zhaoju was a discharged soldier from of all places Juye, a man simply looking to make a living and down on his luck as it were. Now the incident actually began with groups calling themselves the Big Sword Society counter harassing the Christians in Jining. The German missionaries began to send word to Beijing and Yuxian's attention was demanded. Yuxian began to demand evidence of the ongoings in Jining and even pointed out the CHristians had been abusing the local population. But then by July, the Red Boxers emerged under Shao and Chen and they were countered by Qing militias. Yuxian personally toured the area and reported back to Beijing his belief that the Christians had forced the boxers to defend themselves. To Yuxiang, as long as the boxers confined themselves to self defense, acting to only counterweight the Christians abuses, he was fully willing to tolerate them. He wrote this to a colleague in September “"In my area we have already checked accurately.All peaceful [boxing] for self-defense we do not prohibit. But if they kidnap for ransom and loot, then we send troops to seek them out and arrest them." And so he reported back to Beijing that he had arrested some wrong doers, executed the Red Boxer leader Chen Zhaoju and such. Thus when the boxers got out of hand Yuxiang seemed willing to put down the hammer so to speak. However Yuxiang was between a rock and a hard place. He was trying to keep the foreigners accountable for their actions while simultaneously doing the same with the boxers, but this was obviously impossible in practice. As the boxers got more and more bold, Yuxiang urged them to disperse, advised them to instead join militia's, to just keep out of severe trouble. The Big Swords even reemerged around Caozhou harassing Christians along the border with Zhili, Yuxiang was quite lenient against them. Now Yuxiang at this point was dealing with the Red Boxers predominately found in southern shandong, but another group known as the “spirit boxers”emerged in the northwest. They were operating outside the German sphere of influence, this was the realm of the French, Italian and some American missionaries. The Spirit Boxers were significantly different from their southern comrades, as they had distinct invulnerability rituals involving being possessed by gods. By early 1899 they were taking on a anti-christian nature and then they suddenly adopted the name “Boxers united in righteousness, the Yihequan. They recruited and trained openly in villages and extremely visible organization. Their rituals and gods derived from popular literature and opera, they became extremely popular and fast. These were the “true” boxers that would become known to the world. The Spirit Boxers began with no anti-christian dimension, their original slogan for example was “Xiao-jing fu-mu, he-mu jia-xiang / respect your parents, live in harmony with your neighbors”. They were interested in helping local communities, often providing healing services. They were distinct in the fact they did everything out in the open, unlike other groups like the Big Swords who kept their invulnerability techniques secretive. They did not take fees, unlike the Big Swords, thus they often are seen as the “poor cousins” to the Big Swords. Their form of invulnerability involved spirit possession, which is a large reason they came into conflict with Christians. Henry Porter noted this about them in the Chiping area "they added a new element which has caused the rapid spreading of the assemblies. The emissaries who went about to stir up the interest of people pretended to be possessed of a demon. They add a kind of spiritism to their gymnastics. They suppose that their trainer is a medicine [man]. The fellows, mostly young men, practice under him and fancy themselves under the influence of a spirit. In this condition they pretend that nothing can harm or injure them." Now at some point in late 1898, the Spirit Boxers transformers. The Christian abuse in their area led them to join forces with the Big Sword Society. They began to spread throughout the region, people all over sought to learn from the Yihequan. This of course coincided with poverty, natural disasters, famine, all the usual suspects, people needed food and hope. A boxer leader emerged named Zhu Hongdeng. He was born in southern Shandong to a poor landless family. He sold peanuts and often was forced to beg to make ends meet. He learnt spirit boxing in Changqing and went from village to village teaching it. He was one of the main leaders who influenced the spirit boxers early on to take on invulnerability techniques. Now in 1899 Yuxiang was still acting as a moderate between the foreigners and boxers. As long as the boxers did not go too overboard he turned a blind eye. His policy towards the Christian-Boxer conflict was to stay as even handed as possible. But in the late spring of 1899 the magistrate of Chiping seemed to be openly supporting the Boxers, according to one account ‘Magistrate Yu even went to watch the opera and praised the Spirit Boxers! At that time the spirit boxers were at their height. They went to every village. Magistrate Yu even gave awards to the Spirit Boxers!”. In the Chiping area it looked like Qing officials were beginning to tilt against the Christians and were becoming more and more ineffective at quelling violence. As the Boxers spread through Shandong and across the border into Zhili, more and more conflicts with Christians flared up. In May of 1899 the county of Pingyuan began to see complaints from Christians about the Boxers. A local boxer leader named Zhang Ze from the village of Beidi was quite a hot head as they say. He ruled his village with an iron first and he was openly harassing the Christians. Now Yuxiang at this point did not see much of a difference between the Red Boxers of the south and the Spirit Boxers of the northwest, so when reports came to him of incidents he thought it was easily solvable stuff. The Christians pressed their missionary allies who complained to the Zongli Yamen, but no real efforts came about to quell the problems. Then a Christian Chinese leader in Pingyuan county was robbed by some boxers including Zhang Ze. The man died apparently of frustration and stress, and his son accused the boxers of killing him. The local magistrate investigated the situation, but found no wounds on the 80 year old man, so he took no real action other than asking Zhang Ze and the other boxers to return the stolen property. The Zongli Yamen began harassing Yuxiang, who proceeded to harass the local magistrate, but the conflict was not thoroughly looked at. In fact the local magistrate was down playing the entire thing and failing to even mention the boxer element to it all. The conflict got bigger, the Christians kept complaining, but nothing was being done. In Gangzi Lizhuang a southern part of Pingyuan county a boxer leader named Li Changshui who was quarreling with a Christian leader named Li Jinbang. They had a minor land dispute and Li Changshui began looting Li Jinbang with some boxer allies. The local magistrate ordered Qing forces to crack down who stormed the area arresting some boxers, but Li Changshui fled. The magistrate reported to Yuxiang and others all was well again. However Li Changshui had fled to Chiping where he asked for help from Zhu Hongdeng. Both men returned to Gangzi Lizhuang with a force of hundreds of boxers. The Boxers forced the local christians to feed them, took some hostage for ransom to get some arrested boxers out of jail. The magistrate came to investigate to find Zhu Hongdeng dressed in red pants, a red cap, with red flags carrying the slogan “Tian-xia Yihetuan, xing qing mie-yang / Under heaven, the boxers united in righteousness; revive the Qing and destroy the foreign”. The magistrate's soldiers charged into the village, and the Boxers attacked their flag bearers. Upon seeing this, rumor has it the magistrate said to his chief runner “which is faster, a horse or sedan chair?” Before fleeing the scene. The Boxers had thus defeated a rather tiny Qing force, literally less than 20 guys.  Everyone began harassing the magistrate to summon a adequate force before Zhu Hongdeng got emboldened enough to start a rebellion. On October 12th the magistrate requested forces and by the 16th they arrived led by the prefect of Jinan Lu Changyi and officer Yuan Shidun, a cousin of Yuan Shikai. Lu Changyi quickly seized command and went to Gangzi Lizhuang only to find out Zhu Hongdeng and the boxers had left. They had fled northwest to the Senluo Temple which was on the eastern bank of the Majia river. The temple was built over a dike and had a commanding view with its high walls. On the morning of October 18th, around 1500 boxers had gathered around the temple. Yuan Shidun dispatched 500 infantry with 20 cavalry towards them. His scouts went ahead and reported back that the Boxers had these large red flags reading “revive the Qing, destroy the foreign”. A boxer messenger came to greet the scouts, and apparently a miscommunication led to some gunfire from the Qing. The Boxers were armed with swords, spears, a handful of primitive hunting rifles and some antique cannons and they erupted against the Qing. The Qing forces carried only single short rifles and after firing their first volley, could not reload quickly enough as the Boxers charged upon them. A few Qing soldiers were killed, more wounded as they fled for their lives. The Qing soldiers were shocked by the ferocity of the Boxers, they charged without fear of death or pain. The Qing rallied for a counter attack and this time caused casualties upon the boxers, roughly 27 killed. Zhu Hongdeng and the boxers fled as the Qing arrested and executed many. While this could appear to the naked eye a minor skirmish, it was a watershed moment for the Boxer movement. The boxers had been brought to the forefront of Qing attention, they received a ton of publicity. Zhu Hongdeng, though defeated in the end, paraded around Chiping stating they had won a great victory. The slogan “Revive the Qing, destroy the foreign” was an incredible new development, why? Because the one thing the boxers always lacked was good leadership, they were pretty much directionless this entire time. Zhu Hongdeng would be arrested like countless other Boxer leaders, but a slogan “revive the Qing, destroy the foreign”, this was something people could rally to and it was a sense of direction. The slogan spread like wildfire amongst many differing boxer groups. Also they were using the term yihetuan instead of Yihequan, tuan meaning militia, Quan referred to boxers. They were now “the militia united in righteousness”  they had evolved into a more legitimate force. As Dan Carlin once said in his podcast about the events leading up to WW1, the pin had been taken out of the hand grenade. I would like to take this time to remind you all that this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Please go subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry after that, give my personal channel a look over at The Pacific War Channel at Youtube, it would mean a lot to me. The Yihequan had become the Yihetuan. The conflicts against the foreigners reached its zenith and now the Boxers were going to lead a violent movement that would yet again bring China into a war, not with one or two nations, but 8.   

Audible Bleeding editor Wen (@WenKawaji) is joined by 5th year integrated vascular surgery resident Kaitlyn (@DunphyKaitlyn), JVS Assistant Editor Dr. Paul Dimuzio (@pdimuziomd) and JVS-VL assistant editor Dr. Dua (@AnahitaDua) to discuss two great articles in the JVS family of journals regarding Post-operative stroke risk after carotid endarterectomy and use of Varithena in treating venous leg ulcers. This episode hosts Dr. Baohui Xu and Dr. Gregory Modrall, the authors of the following papers:   Articles:  Postoperative disability and one-year outcomes for patients suffering a stroke after carotid endarterectomy by Levin et al. VIEW-VLU observational study of the effect of Varithena on wound healing in the treatment of venous leg ulcers by Shao et al.     Show Guests: Dr. Siracuse- Professor of surgery and radiology at Boston University Dr. Shao—vascular surgeon at Swedish hospital, Northshore University Healthsystem in Chicago, IL Dr. Levin—plastic and reconstructive surgery fellow at the University of California Davis     Follow us @audiblebleeding Learn more about us at https://www.audiblebleeding.com/about-1/ and provide us with your feedback with our listener survey.  

Welcome to Art is Awesome, the show where we talk with an artist or art worker with a connection to the San Francisco Bay Area. Today, Emily chats with photographer Shao Feng Hsu.About Artist Shao Feng Hsu:Shao-Feng Hsu is a photographer whose work around the world mainly focuses on the interaction of humans and aquatic environment. From his native Taiwan — where he trained as a competitive swimmer — to Australia, Cambodia, Japan, and beyond, Shao-Feng Hsu has immersed himself in aquatic cultures in an ongoing study of the impact of the Anthropocene Era on our waters. In December 2017, he was selected to participate in Angkor Photo Festival Workshop, where he documented life in a village without proper sanitation and running water. Expanding on the project's themes back in Taiwan, he collaborated with the environmental NGO, RE-Think, on projects to illustrate shoreline pollution. His project, Inner Tidal Zones, combines color photograms and digital images to capture the perspective of aquatic creatures and the emotions of the water. He is a graduate of the Creative Practices program at the International Center of Photography and a recipient of Rita K. Hillman Award of Excellence. During the pandemic lockdown he co-founded Fotodemic.org and cademy.biz. He is currently a Fellow at the Headlands Center of the Arts and teaches B&W darkroom at California College of the Arts (CCA) Photography Program.Visit Shao's Website: ShaoFengHsu.comFollow Shao on Instagram: @ShaoFengHsuFor more about the Headlands Graduate Fellowships HERE.Pictures of You: Headlands Center for the Arts Graduate Fellowship Exhibition at The LabSF Camerawork --About Podcast Host Emily Wilson:Emily a writer in San Francisco, with work in outlets including Hyperallergic, Artforum, 48 Hills, the Daily Beast, California Magazine, Latino USA, and Women's Media Center. She often writes about the arts. For years, she taught adults getting their high school diplomas at City College of San Francisco.Follow Emily on Instagram: @PureEWilFollow Art Is Awesome on Instagram: @ArtIsAwesome_Podcast--CREDITS:Art Is Awesome is Hosted, Created & Executive Produced by Emily Wilson. Theme Music "Loopster" Courtesy of Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 4.0 LicenseThe Podcast is Co-Produced, Developed & Edited by Charlene Goto of @GoToProductions. For more info, visit Go-ToProductions.com

Welcome back to Season 3, a Special Episode of the Asian Hustle Network Podcast! We are very excited to have Jingyi Shao on this week's show. Jingyi Shao is a 2nd Gen Chinese American writer/director working in film and TV. Born in Shanghai but raised in the suburbs of New Jersey, Jingyi's leans into his multicultural background as a way to tell stories that inspire and bring different communities closer together. An award-winning commercial director who shot for international brands such as Adidas, Cartier and Dove, Jing was recently named to Variety's 10 Directors to Watch for 2023 for his feature debut Chang Can Dunk. His screenplay for the film was 2nd on the 2020 Black List and was developed by Disney as a Disney+ Original. The film makes its worldwide premiere on the service on March 10th. Subscribe to our newsletter to stay updated with future events and get involved with the community: https://asianhustlenetwork.com --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/asianhustlenetwork/support

Today, Jay and Lee are joined by Val Shao, an absolute crusher at the crag who is also the organizer of the 30th annual International Climber's Festival in Lander, WY. Learn all about this year's International Climber's Festival and what makes Lander an excellent climbing destination. Plus, hear Val's take on the hot button debates that continue to rage on the podcast. Learn more about the International Climber's Festival here: https://www.climbersfestival.org/Connect with Val on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/val_shao/?hl=enDo you have a listener question or a topic idea? Let us know at @firstascentpod on Instagram! Jay and Lee can be found at @jayknower and @xxleeweexx You know what you want to do? You want to join our Patreon! Support the First Ascent Podcast for just $5/month and get access to great bonus content like our live talks, route info, and exclusive beta. Learn more here: https://www.patreon.com/FirstAscentPodcastJay and Lee can be found at @jayknower and @xxleeweexx Disclaimer: The information expressed in this episode is for entertainment purposes only, and is not intended as, nor should it be interpreted as, informational or instructional.

Last time we spoke about the conclusion of the first Sino-Japanese War and we took a side trip speaking about overseas Chinese in the 19th century. The treaty of Shimonoseki ended the war between Japan and the Qing dynasty. The Qing dynasty was humiliated yet again, but so too was Japan because of the triple intervention of Germany, France and Russia. The balance of power in the east had shifted dramatically. Such dramatic change that was seen in the 19th century led to massive emigration within and outside of China. The wealthy and common Chinese people wanted to improve their lives and they moved within China seeking lands to farm and outside China seeking new opportunities. Overseas Chinese were heavily influenced by the great Gold Rushes of the 19th century and of course the colossal railway projects. In many ways it was a dark part of the histories of numerous nations, but in the end it was also the beginning of a new international community.     #56 This episode it's not always sunny in Shandong   Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on history of asia and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War. Shandong, anytime you hear about a conflict in Chinese history it always seems to originate with Shandong. Indeed Shandong has been at the heart of an unbelievable number of conflicts, it just always seems to be the birthing place for trouble, but hell it always gave us Confucious. Not going to lie, this is going to be a bit of a bizarre episode. The purpose of this episode is to somewhat explain, how certain groups emerge historically because….well of just a place. Shandong is unique, its been at the heart of so many events. We are soon going to be jumping into another major event in Chinese history, but to best tell how it comes about, I wanted to cover the origin of those responsible. It just so happens where the majority of these people come from, that is northwest Shandong by the way, makes for quite a story. So let us explore Shandong and perhaps touch just a bit, like a teaser upon a group of people that will become known to the western world as the Boxers. In the late 19th century Shandong held an enormous population, cereal agriculture and numerous impoverished villages. The climate of the region could go from just above freezing for the winter months and blazingly hot and humid for the summer months. China took its time modernizing as we all know, so the peasants of Shandong had to rely mostly on mother nature for irrigation and mother nature in China could be quite cruel. Floods were common, so were droughts. Shandong is quite diverse, its eastern portion was very productive, producing grain, fruits and vegetables. Its streams carried gold dust which was panned by locals. It was part of an ancient silk-raising region. Along the peninsula was a relative immunity to natural disasters. Landlords were more plentiful here than Shandongs western half and it held numerous important port cities like Qingdao which today produces Tsingtao beer, one of my favorites. Commerce was quite bountiful in the port cities and by far and large the peninsula and northern slope of eastern shandong were the most developed parts of the province. In the mid 19th century 58% of Shandongs provincial degree holders came from either the northern slope or peninsula. However when you look at the northwest plains of Shandong province you begin to see a discrepancy. Stretching across the entire region north of the Yellow River, held one of the most populous regions, with 250 people per square kilometer covering around 26% of Shandongs land area. 93% or so of these people were peasants and the region was purely agricultural, but it could be described as anything but prosperous. Average yields were the lowest of any region in Shandong, reflecting the persistent problems of waterlogging and salinity of the soil. The northwest was prone to natural disasters. The yellow river became quite problematic to this region in the 1880s. The bed of the river had risen above ground level through most of Shandong, and the floods became increasingly bad. Though bad, the yellow river was not the only source of misery for northwest Shandong. Lesser streams frequently caused local floodings and as funny as it sounds, too much water was an issue, but often it was too little that brought upon real calamity. In 1876 a terrible drought was said to have carried off nearly 2 million people. 10 years later, famine hit again, truly making Northwest Shandong a disaster area. As bad as mother nature could be, man could also be problemsome.  West of Jinan is an imperial highway that runs north and south. It passed into the province of Dezhou, then through Haotang and Chiping before crossing the yellow river's northern course at Dong'e. This area since ancient times saw numerous invading armies cross it from north to south. The Mongols used it and then the Manchu in a similar fashion. It was ripe also for rebels to take up shop. As we saw, the Taiping's northern expedition in the mid 1850's brought them into Shandong, when they attempted to hit Beijing. But Prince Sengge Rinchen managed to turn away the Taiping, ironically by flooding them out. The Nian rebels likewise raided Shandong, first in its southwest, but then in its northwest by the late 1860's. Even the White Lotus Rebellion saw much spreading in the region. It was often said by travelers that this area “suffered quite as much from the imperial soldiers as they did from the rebels, and at times even worse”. With such conditions it was no surprise numerous rebels and bandits would emerge. Banditry was an important part of both northwest and southwest Shandong. It was prevalent especially along the southern border with Zhili were bands of around 8-13 men would often perform highway robbery. Roving bandits would prey upon innocent villages, with the prime time being winter as most of these men were not full time bandits, oh no most had homes and grew crops, it was seasonal work. One account in July of 1897 had this to say “the season when highwaymen are especially numerous and dangerous is upon us. The kaoliang is in its prime, and being 7 or 8 feet high and very thick affords a most convenient ambush. It is unsafe to travel alone even in daylight over lonely roads”.  Now northwest shandong was disaster prone leading to barely any landlords. The region was simply not wealthy enough to support many landlords. Poverty and peasantry was the norm. It was not unheard of for entire villages to take up the road, carrying entire families of men, women and children begging for food. There was a ton of mobility, and a lot of young men would sell themselves as laborers to make ends meet. There was a constant migration of people in northwest Shandong because of the harsh conditions. All of these conditions lent the region into a certain mentality. Now Shandong is the birthplace of both Confucious and Mencius, the very foundation of orthodoxy in China, so why do so many rebellions seem to spurt up here? Confucian tradition holds that a ruler should educate, and lead people to do what is right. But Shandong has historically been seen to be a stubborn place for sectarianism, especially during the Qing dynasty. Something Qing officials took notice of, was how rebellions often came about with the marriage of a sect, take for example the White Lotus and martial arts, which we can also refer to as boxing. The Ming had set a law against Heterodoxy which the Qing adopted, it proscribed a penalty of strangulation for the leaders and banishment of 3000 li distance for followers. Here is a passage of the laws “all teachers and shamans who call down heterodox gods [jiang xieshen, write charms, [chant] incantations [to make] water [magically efficacious: zhou-shui], perform planchette and pray to sages, calling themselves duan-gong (First Lord), tai-bao (Great Protector) or shi-po (shamaness); and those who wildly call themselves the White Lotus Society of the Buddha Maitreya, the Ming-zun [Manichaean?] sect, or the White Cloud Assembly with their heretical and heterodox [zuo-daoyi-duan] techniques; or those who hide pictures [of heterodox gods or patriarchs] and gather in groups to burn incense, meeting at night and dispersing at dawn, pretending to do good works but [actually] arousing and misleading the people” So as you can see with this passage, the law made it clear that incantations or charms were particularly concerning to the Qing court. Mere worship was tolerated or at least treated leniently. But what was definitely not ok was the formation of hierarchies, such as master and disciples, or the use of lets say magic. These actions were seen as instrumental to providing the organization needed for subversive activity, ie rebellions. In the early Qing days, these prohibitions were pretty effective, while sectarian worship still flourished, at least no rebellions were kicking off. However by the late 18th century things began to change, rebellions emerged. Now I spoke extensively about the White Lotus Rebellion, but there were two other significant rebellions took place around this time, the Wang Lun rebellion of 1774 and the eight Trigrams uprising of 1813. Both broke out in the Shandong region and both involved significant participation from martial arts groups, more notably both involved those known as Yi-he-quan, aka those who the west would call Boxers by 1898.  The Qing noted the persistence of sectarianism in Shandong, the province was a major source of what was called ‘meditational sects” built upon the White Lotus tradition. These meditational sects had no great halls, sutras or views, they usually were just people prescribing certain diets. They stressed meditation and breathing exercises, sometimes with recitation of incantations. They were pretty simplistic, groups with rituals based around certain times of the day. Both the Wang Lun rebellion and eight Trigrams uprising were begun by these so called “meditational sects”. Wang Lun was a former Yaman runner who managed to get rich working as a healer in Shouzhang county in southwest Shandong. He was the leader of the White Lotus sect in Shandong province in the 1770s. He was a self-taught physician and a martial arts master. He taught his followers yoga, meditation and  the ability to fast for long periods of time. Honestly you could really call these people modern day yogi's. His sect was noted for their fasting techniques and martial arts prowess. By 1774 his sect numbered several thousand. It was in this year, Wang Lun began spreading rumors of an impending turn of the Kalpa. In the Hindu and Buddhist faiths, Kalpa refers to a period of time between creation and the recreation of the universe. He was telling his converts that the reincarnation of Maitreya was upon them, and he was destined to become the Emperor of China. He mobilized his followers and marched upon the city of Shouzhang on October 3rd of 1774. With some help from followers already inside the city, the rebels seized it and ransacked everything they could. The rebels held Shouzhang for a few days before abandoning it to attack the city of Yangku. Yangku was easily captured as its local garrison had just been sent to relieve Shouzhang. From there the rebels captured Tangyi and Liulin before marching upon the larger city of Linqing. By this point the rebels had defeated multiple Qing forces and rumors spread this sect were utilizing invulnerability magic. Many officials in Linqing fled in fear of this. For weeks Wang Lun's forces besieged the city, but the Qing defenders led by Qing Zhanhun resisted their attacks. Wang Lun's forces soon were surrounded and Wang Lun elected to burn himself alive rather than surrender. The Eight Trigrams rebellion was a short lived revolt that broke out in Zhili, Henan and of course Shandong. It too was a sub branch of the White Lotus, led by 3 notable figures. The Eight Trigram sect goes back to the late 17th century of the Ming Dynasty founded by Liu Zuochen and the Liu family of Shandong which maintain it for decades. It was the first folk religion to develop civil and martial work methods, this is referred to as “wen and wu” a conceptual pair in Chinese philosophy, referring to civil and military realms for governance. They believed in meditation techniques to overcome human limits, to reach salvation. They were organized into eight trigrams and predicted a time of troubles and a new kalpa and mobilized themselves through master-disciple relationships. A major component of them was practicing martial arts.  Now like I said during this rebellion they had 3 leaders, the first was Lin Qing who was described as a hustler who loved gambling and took on some odds jobs like being a night watchman, an enforcer, and even a minor healer. Eventually he took over a small white lotus sect and in 1811 he met Li Wen-cheng who at the time was trying to assume leadership over a larger white lotus sect network spanning across Henan, Zhili and Shandong. Both Lin and Li were inspired by the appearance of a comet in 1811 that they believed was a sign that they could topple the Qing dynasty. They also met Feng Keshan who was a martial arts master, who was not really interested in their crazy religious stuff, but he was seen to be a great leader in his own right and he joined them as a means of recruiting followers from boxing groups within Henan, Zhili and Shandong. In July of 1813 the main leaders of the eight trigrams met and discussed a date for a rebellion. What really began their necessity to rebel, was a series of droughts and floods that had brought upon a famine which in turn led to a sharp increase in the price of wheat. The emperor at the time had scheduled a hunting trip on September 15th, so the rebels knew the Forbidden city would be lightly guarded. The plan called for ambushing the Emperor as he was coming back from the trip, just outside the city. Qing court officials heard rumors of the planned rebellion and quickly arrested Li Wen-cheng on September 2nd. They began torturing him, but soon his followers broke in and rescued him. The rebellion was then pushed forward and the Eight Trigrams quickly seized Huaxin, Dingtao and Caoxian in southern Zhili and Shandong. Lin Qing took charge of an attack upon the forbidden city, although he notably did not participate in the attack. The rebels hid in ships outside the eastern and western palace gates as Lin paid off palace eunuchs to lead his forces through the gates. The rebels wore white cloths around their heads and waists and were armed mostly with knives or iron bars. They tried to attack during a mealtime when they assumed the guards would be eating. The Emperor at this time was around 50 miles away from the city walls. Around 80 rebels managed to get through the gates before they were closed and fighting erupted inside. With the element of surprise lost, the rebels soon routed as the Imperial guards brigade hunted them down. Several thousand supported continued to besiege cities for months, but all would be suppressed in January of 1814.  Li Wen-chang along with 4000 followers died while besieging Huixian. Over 20,000 or so eight trigram members would be killed and an estimated 70,000 people would die as a result of the short rebellion. So Shandong was kind of a breeding ground for sects, particularly from the White Lotus faith. Shandong also was a place notable for martial arts. As early as the Song dynasty, the people of Shandong were noted for being warlike and brave. Their reputation only strengthen with time. During the late 19th century a western source labeled the people of shandong “Warlike, industrious and intelligent. The natives of Shantung [Shandong] ... whose overflow has peopled the rich lands of Manchuria, enjoy the finest record for both physical and moral qualities. It is from them the Chinese navy drew its best recruits; it is they who proved their prowess either as brigands or as a self-reliant and self-defended exploiters of the resources of Liaotung [Liaodong] and Manchuria.” It was not just westerners who took notice of Shandong's martial arts prowess, the Qing dynasty looked to Shandong often for its military. Shandong was an area of China that had seen repeated invasions, take out a map of China, you see it immediately, anyone who comes from the north pretty much has to go through shandong. Repeated invasions by forces from the north encouraged the development of martial habits in self defense, add natural and human disasters that continuously disrupted the social order, and you eventually end up with bandits. The people who settled in shandong had to deal with constant banditry and attacks from invaders. Shandong also had a greater military/civil ratio than most provinces. From 1851-1900 the northwest ratio was around 1.22 to 1 and the southwest 2.38 to 1 while the ratio for the entire province was around .57 to 1. And those areas with the higher rations just so happen to be the areas where boxers and members of the Big Sword society emerged. We will talk more about them later. The martial arts tradition of western shandong spawned numerous martial arts groups. There was a popular culture which stressed military virtues, boxing and swordsmanship. Seeing martial arts teachers displaying their prowess in the market places was a very common sight. In 1899 the Zhili magistrate Lae Nai-xuan wrote a pamphlet urging the prohibition of boxers and he wrote about certain martial arts groups along the borders of Jiangsu, Anhu, Henan and Shandong.  “In this area there are many vagabonds and rowdies (wu-lai gun-tu) who draw their swords and gather crowds. They have established societies of various names: the Obedient Swords (Shun-dao hui), Tiger-tail Whip (Huwei bian), the Yi-he Boxers,* and Eight Trigrams Sect (Ba-gua jiao). They are overbearing in the villages and oppress the good people. The origin of these disturbances is gambling. They go to fairs and markets and openly set up tents where they take valuables in pawn and gather to gamble. They [also] conspire with yamen clerks who act as their eyes and ears. “ The people Lai Nai-xuan are describing are the Yi-he-quan Boxers. Who the hell are these guys? These were young men, the type to gamble, drink, perform petty crime to get by, the thuggish types. They most often than naught were bandits, involved in things like salt smuggling. As seen with the Wang Lun and the eight trigrams rebellions, these types of young men practicing boxing were greatly sought after as followers, so sects often created civil and military like divisions to attract them. Adding martial arts to a sect's repertoire could help greatly to recruit. Take the White Lotus sect overall, many of its members, perhaps the majority were historically women. Females were much less likely to take an active role in violence, so white lotus leaders who were usually always looking to start a rebellion began seeing the necessity to recruit able bodied young men, those who knew some boxing to get things cooking. Boxing was often used as a way of luring people into sect activities. It was also a deceptive little trick. If a sect members was teaching youth boxing, it did not necessarily mean they were followers of his sect, it was like a foot in the door process. Thus Shandong was the breeding grounds for both sects and boxers, who often intermingled.  Another interesting thing that has a lot of roots in Shandong is the long history of invulnerability rituals. When rebels kicked up, they were as you can imagine met with force by the Qing authorities. Facing well armed Qing soldiers, rebels often tried to enhance the fighting capabilities of their followers by the use of magic, specifically invulnerability magic. This goes back to ancient times of course, but the advent of firearms from the west during the 17th century really enhanced the appearance of such magic. Several rebel groups during the Ming dynasty would use the allegedly polluting power of women to stop gunfire from walled cities that were being besieged. Wang Lun famous used large numbers of women who would attempt summoning goddesses to prevent the approach of bullets or stop guns from firing. The eight trigrams rebellion used a particularly invulnerability technique known as “jin-zhon-zhao / the armor of the golden bell”. This technique would later be famously employed by the Big Swords society, again future episodes will delve into this more. The technique was a form of kung-fu that employed “Qigong”. Qigong is a system of coordinating body-posturing, like movement, breathing and meditation. Those performing it would perform breathing exercises which they claimed helped protect their bodies against blades and even bullets as if a large bell was covering their body. Some who practiced this would chant incantations like “a song does not tell his father; a father does not tell his son”. During the mid 19th century rebellions were tearing China apart. The Taiping, Nian, local white lotus were all hitting different parts of China simultaneously. By 1860 the Qing government was cracking down left right and center, increasing land taxes to support the suppressing efforts. In 1861, in Qiu county, the very extreme edge of western Shandong saw rebels rise up, a majority of them were of the white lotus.  They were joined by martial artists of the Black Flag Army under the leadership of Song Jing-shi a professional boxer and swordsman who made a living as a highway escort, like a armed guard for wealthy nobles.  Unlike the previous rebellions that had marriages between boxers and sects, these rebellions in the mid 19th century brought upon a new flavor, an anti-manchu one. The Taiping and Nian rebellions inspired a vigorous hate against the Manchu, particularly against the corrupt officials that made up their dynasty. Certainly when the Qing began to suppress the rebels, it led to a ravaging of the countryside seeing flocks of boxers join the rebels in response. While many boxers joined such rebels, others would join the Qing to combat them as well. In 1861, Song Jing-shi was forced to surrender to the Qing and he would claim he only joined the rebellion because he and his followers were facing persecution by yamen runners. He then offered his services against the rebels, but he had one condition, that his forces would stay intact. His forces indeed fought against the Nian rebels, marching into Henan. The Qing asked him and his followers to go to Shaanxi to fight them there, but he elected to take his men to western Shandong where his original base was and just rebelled again. The story of Song Jing-shi showcases how martial artists and sectarians were a mainstream aspect of peasantry life in shandong. The participation of boxers on the side of rebels and the government shows it was really part of the social fabric of the region. Western Shandong by the late Qing period saw greater numbers of military examination graduates. Boxing was becoming much more popular as a recreation for youthful men and a means of protecting one's home. As one Gazetter said “The local people like to practice the martial arts—especially to the west of Linqing. There are many schools: Shao-lin, Plum Flower and Greater and Lesser Hong Boxing. Their weapons are spears, swords, staff and mace. They specialize in one technique and compete with one another” . In rural villages of Shandong you would see what “ying-shen saihui / inviting the gods to a performance”. This can be described as a sort of opera, where a center for attention was erected. Shows would be put on to benefit the local temple gods, large tents went up and people came from all around for some good ol' R & R. Relatives from surrounding villages would come and drink, eat, gamble, have fun and such. And here at these opera places, many boxers would showcase their skills. Many of the gods being worshiped were military figures, especially for western shandong. Marital themes of the Water Margin, the romance of the 3 kingdoms and enfeoffment of the gods were notably loved spectacles. It was all a blend of social drama and theater and it was a beloved part of communities, and something they wanted to protect, and to protect it they had Boxers. Young men began studying martial arts to protect their communities, leading to things like crop watching associations. Poverty was getting worse and worse by the late 19th century, driving more into banditry and thus more boxers emerged to counter balance them. The late Qing dynasty would see an increase in military applicants from Shandong and it seems boxing was pushing it. Boxing was a popular part of the culture in Shandong, particularly in its western half and this led itself to providing the dynasty with good soldiers. The boxers were tolerated, hell they kind of became seen as defenders of local communities. But as the 19th century saw many internal rebellions, it also saw external threats. The British, French, Russians, and Japanese, amongst others, were encroaching and humiliating China. The threat of western imperialism would prove to be the final ingredient to see the rise of a new sort of movement. After the first opium war, 5 treaty ports were opened in China, but they were most confined the the southern and southeastern coast. Then the second opium war opened major ports in the north, like Tianjin and Chefoo along the Shandong peninsula in 1862. The Boxer movement was thus introduced to foreigners. Foreign cotton textiles began to enter Shandong through these ports, increasing during the 1880s and much more so during the 1890s. Despite the disruption of the first sino-Japanese war, cotton textile imports in Shandong rose rapidly. The increase in textile imports was seriously interfering with Shandong home grown textiles. In 1866 the Commissioner of customs at Yantai noted that the native Shandong textiles were "very good and durable, and are largely used in this province." Twenty years later, this same port reported that "the increase in its [cotton yarn's] import is said to be seriously interfering with the local industry ofspinning, which affords a means of support to many poor women." Then  in 1887, the same commissioner reported that "I gather that the reeling of Native Cotton Yarn in this province is almost at a standstill." Foreign imports were having a disastrous effect particularly on northwest Shandong. The war with Japan hit the Shandong peninsula when the Japanese attacked weihaiwei. Qing forces were rushed northward and to the coast from interior parts of Shandong. The wars primary affect on Shandong was stripping it of its garrison forces as more and more men were sent to the front. This left a power vacuum in which two types of forces emerged; bandits and self defense forces, such as the Big Sword Society. When the war came to an end it provided dramatic evidence the Qing government was incompetent. There was a immediate feeling that China was breaking apart and that the Great Powers intended to carve it up for themselves. You all probably have seen the famous painting showing the great world powers leaders carving into china. 1897-1898 saw what we call the scramble for concessions and this was a very real crisis. Every since the opium wars, Christian missionaries gradually flooded China. In Shandong, catholic missionaries began at first in secret to convert the Chinese, by 1850 its estimated there were nearly 6000. By the late 19th century this grew to 16,850 in 1887 and during the 1890's it rose up dramatically to 47,221. The catholics remained in western Shandong and parts of Zhili while protestants grew along Shandongs coast around the treaty ports. The converts began to gain advantages with foreigners and this was met with resentment from those non christians around them. The church would intervene countless times in China's domestic politics and justice. The missionaries were protected and held extraterritoriality provisions from the many treaties of the 19th century. Their converts would also by extension be able to use some rights. For example if a convert Chinese stated they were being oppressed because of their faith, the foreign missionaries could intervene, and this was most definitely a system that was exploited. The missionaries would often intervene in any sort of temporal dispute, but the most common exploit was converts using their christianity to escape government punishments. Who else do you think would convert to Christianity to escape punishment, well bandits of course. In western shandong, bandits began seeking the protection of the church. So all of the sectarian groups that had been flourishing alongside the boxer groups were decaying and sought Christianity for protection. Likewise bandits would seek the same protection. The Boxers were losing their sense of being, those who they often aligned with to protect were seeking alternatives, and those they were protecting them from, were seeking the same thing. It looked to many of these youthful men that the missionaries were evil and ruining their lives. The situation was ripe for a major conflict. I would like to take this time to remind you all that this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Please go subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry after that, give my personal channel a look over at The Pacific War Channel at Youtube, it would mean a lot to me. Shandong, why is it always Shandong? It's sort of reminiscent of Bismarck talking about the balkans before WW1. Shandong was producing youthful men, who were watching their nation decay, and at some point enough would be enough.  

Last time we spoke about the Massacre at Port Arthur, actions in Manchuria and the fall of Weihaiwei. The Japanese had completely destroyed their meticulously cultivated public image when they let loose atrocities upon the Chinese at Port Arthur. Meanwhile, multiple Japanese and Chinese armies fought in Manchuria, culminating in a decisive blow at the battle of Yingkou. The Japanese advance was getting ever closer to Beijing, but the event that would inflict the most serious threat to China was the battle for Weihaiwei. The survivors of the Beiyang Fleet were trapped within the harbor of Weihaiwei when the Japanese snuck onto the Peninsula and laid siege to the great fortified port city. The Japanese stormed the fort's guns and quickly turned them on the Beiyang fleet before launching torpedo boats to finish the job. It was a catastrophe for the Qing Dynasty, now the Japanese could launch offensives at their whim against Shandong province.   #54 The First Sino-Japanese War of 1898-1895 Part 6: Taiwan and end of the War   Welcome to the Fall and Rise of China Podcast, I am your dutiful host Craig Watson. But, before we start I want to also remind you this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Perhaps you want to learn more about the history of Asia? Kings and Generals have an assortment of episodes on history of asia and much more  so go give them a look over on Youtube. So please subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry for some more history related content, over on my channel, the Pacific War Channel where I cover the history of China and Japan from the 19th century until the end of the Pacific War. Japan had just captured the port city of Weihaiwei. The Japanese government publicly reported their objectives of war were not yet attained and that the diet was prepared to grant whatever amounts were necessary for military expenses required to finish them. Meanwhile the Qing court in Beijing concluded that China's military defeats had been mostly a result of the weaknesses of European weaponry. Yes, that was their conclusion. They pointed out how there was a mismatch between Chinese gunpowder, which might I add was inferior to that of what was being used in the west, and their western purchased breech-loading rifles. From the North China Herald we get this gem "There is a movement in Peking for a return to the use of muzzle-loading rifles and long jingals [sic] for arming the Chinese armies. But the Chinese arsenals before the war was ‘unfit even for firecrackers' and had been provided ‘by unprincipled ordnance officials.' This inferior gunpowder supplied to the Chinese armies in Manchuria and elsewhere since the war began, had undoubtedly been one of the chief causes which has made our soldiery appear ridiculous in the eyes of the world. The powder in the cartridges has been found either not to carry far enough in nine cases out often or not even to explode! This sad state of affairs has been the principal cause of the hitherto astonishing panics of the Chinese soldiery whenever they were confronted by the Japanese." Instead of simply replacing defective powder and using modern weapons. The Qing solution to their gunpowder problem, which was the result of corrupt officials embezzling, was to simply dispose of modern weaponry and start using their old stuff. Instead of simply replacing defective powder and using modern weapons. With the Beiyang fleet's warships destroyed or captured, Prince Gong ordered the closing of the admiralty board since China no longer possessed a real navy. When he did so, they found 5 million taels missing from the account. It is alleged these funds were diverted to Empress Dowager Cixi's summer palace renovations. There was a general recognition in the west after the fall of Weihaiwei that the balance of power in the far east had changed. China was no longer the dominant power, it was clearly Japan. The Qing dynasty faced a horrible decision: they could negotiate a peace deal with Japan or they could risk a coup d'etat. It was to be defeat by the hands of Japanese, or their own Han subjects. The Manchu leadership clearly favored the former, especially since they were under the belief they could enlist some western intervention to mitigate better peace terms on their behalf. For the Japanese, they now were trying to figure how to make their war gains permanent, but to do so they really had to get the Qing to capitulate before foreign intervention occurred. While Japan could defeat China, she could not handle more nations jumping into the mix, particularly the Russians in Manchuria. The Japanese public and military were demanding peace terms to meet their great achievements in the field of battle. Japanese diplomats however were very aware of the international diplomatic consequences of being too ambitious in the peace terms. Cooperation between the Japanese military and diplomatic leadership began to wane after Port Arthur fell. A week after its fall, Premier Ito Hirobumi arranged Field Marshal Yamagata Aritomo to be relieved of his command for medical reasons, but he was not sick. No, it was because Yamagata favored a direct march upon Beijing and this made the Japanese political leadership worried he might not listen to orders telling him otherwise if he remained in the field. They believed such a strategy would ultimately backfire, because it would collapse the Qing dynasty which would simply drag western powers into the mix. As Premier Ito Hirobumi put it “Should this happen, Japan would be negotiating peace not with China, but with the Western Powers. But there is another twist to this story. Yamagata also happened to be Ito's most powerful rival and you can only imagine how much it might displeasure Ito if Yamagata marched into Beijing.  Thus Ito arranged for a different strategy. Beijing would no longer be an objective, instead the 2nd IJA hit Weihaiwei, but another far more distant objective was also tossed onto the map, Taiwan. It was the belief amongst the Japanese leadership, the western powers would tolerate Japan annexing Taiwan. Always trying to emulate the great powers, Japan wanted to obtain colonies, showcasing herself to be their equal. Taking territory on the mainland of Asia was much trickery and could butt heads with nations like Russia, but Taiwan was a lonely Qing held asset very far from her clutches. The strategy was extremely unpopular with the military and Japanese public, both of whom obviously were looking forward to a foothold on the Asian mainland and the ultimate spectacle of marching upon Beijing. In fact the Imperial Family had even sent Field Marshal Prince Komatsu Akihito over to specifically grab command over the march on Beijing. The Japanese royal family wanted one of its members to personally see the capitulation of the Qing emperor, now that would certainly be a hell of a spectacle. But most of the military and public did not understand what would occur if the Qing dynasty collapsed.  By this point of the war, the IJA sought to retain the Liaodong Peninsula, but the Japanese politicians understood this was far too close to the Chinese capital to be tolerated. Meanwhile the financial leaders of Japan sought, as you can imagine, large indemnity payments. War can be expensive. So the Peace demands would have three overarching demands: Taiwan, the Liaodong Peninsula and a fat sum of money in indemnities. Now ever since the disasters at Pyongyang and Yalu, the British and Russian governments began work to mediate between China and Japan. Nothing was coming to fruition, but after Port Arthur fell, the Qing began to get desperate. Just a week after Port Arthur's fall, the Qing government sent its first peace mission to Japan. On November 26th, the commissioner of customs at Tianjin, Gustav Detring and a journalist of the London Times named Alexander Michie arrived to Hiroshima with a letter from Li Hongzhang. Ito Hirobumi refused to receive the letter from Gustav Detring because he was not properly accredited by the Qing government, so he was sent away. When Gaiping fell on January 10th, the Qing government requested a cease-fire, which the Japanese turned down. In fact the Japanese publicly stated they would not halt hostilities even during peace talks. Thus the war continued on. Since the first mission, if you could call it that had failed, the Qing prepared a second. This time the Qing hired a special adviser, the former secretary of state to the US, John Watson Foster. Two commissioners were appointed, Zhang Yinhuan a former minister to the US, Peru and Spain and current Zongli Yamen. The second was Shao Youlin, a previous governor to Taiwan, and current activating governor of Hunan province. Zhang was capable of speaking English and thus he took the head. Speaking of heads, Shao Youlin, though a very unknown official, he was rather infamous for one thing. He had issued a proclamation at the beginning of the war, offering a 200 tael reward for the head of any Japanese officer or 100 taels for a regular soldier presented to him. Now if you have been listening to this series from the beginning you can guess this is the age old trick the Chinese played to save face. Always add some level of insult when performing negotiations. Thus Mr. Shao's appointment was just that, an insult and part of a game, a game the Japanese understood, China was still trying to make her look inferior. If China sent top ranking diplomats, it meant they were treating Japan as an equal. To this the Japanese retaliated. They used diplomatic fine print, found from European international law to rid themselves of the new delegation without breaching any rules on courtesy. They made the Chinese look ridiculous. Here is how it went down according to the North China Herald “the two envoys who should be proceeding were still idling in Shanghai because they were unfurnished with proper credentials” The Japanese also asserted the US minister in Beijing had been asked to draw up a proper set of credentials, but he was extremely late to present them and this was unacceptable. According to the Japanese the plenipotentiary powers of the two envoys lacked the authority to make any decisions. All of this occurred before the fall of Weihaiwei, meaning if the delegation had been successful the Japanese would have had a lot less chips on the table. A few days after the envoys departed for Hiroshima, the Peking Gazette, which was the official organ for the Qing government to publicate its edicts referred to the Japanese notably not with the term Woren, but this time the term Wokou which loosely meant “dwarf bandit'. The envoys reached Hiroshima on January 31st of 1895 and met with Ito Hirobumi on February 1st with Zhang keeping a friendly posture. Zhang continuously asked when he would be meeting with Emperor Meiji and Ito Hirobumi kept promising soon, soon he was a busy man, but in reality the Japanese, pardon my french, were just fucking with the envoys and were going to toss them out of the country. Ito Hirobumi made public statement to the two envoys, that they lacked official seals to conclude real treaties and that Japan had demanded assurances from the Qing government they would send proper envoys with proper seals. He finished off with this “ His Majesty the Emperor of Japan conferred upon my colleague and myself full powers to conclude and sign Preliminaries of Peace with the Plenipotentiaries of China." And on February 2, 1895, Ito called off the negotiations. Thus two days after the second mission arrived, they were already departing in failure. It would take over a month and a half before a third mission would leave China for Japan. In the meantime Japan captured Weihaiwei, destroyed the Beiyang fleet and were advancing upon Beijing by land and sea. This led the Chinese to stop messing around and choose envoys they knew the Japanese would accept. The Japanese made it known they would accept either Li Hongzhang or Prince Gong, China's two top foreign policy experts. Now if Li Hongzhang went, this offered the Japanese an enormous opportunity to humiliate the man who was commanding the Qing Navy and large parts of her land forces. The other choice placed a Manchu member of the royal clan in a position that would more than likely also result in humiliation. The Qing as you might guess, opted to toss the Han Chinese Li Hongzhang. It was the obvious choice to save the face of Manchu pride to scapegoat using a Han, a classica Qing dynasty strategy by this point in time. Thus the man who fought the most to modernize China and scapegoat this entire calamity would become the scapegoat and bear China's humiliation. To ready Li Hongzhang for his new responsibility, Emperor Guangxu simply restored all the honors and titles he had recently taken from him. Li Hongzhang yet again wore the 3 eyed peacock feather and yellow jacket. The Qing imperial court then asked all the highest ranking provincial officials for recommendations on what to include in the peace settlement. Li Hongzhang was provided with this: To accept a peace settlement as long as the Japanese only wanted indemnity payments. If Japan sought any territorial concessions, the Qing would continue to fight. Might I note, all of these officials who gave their recommendations were extremely out of touch with the reality of the ongoing war. On March 19th, Li Hongzhang alongside 100 other officials departed China for the port city of Shimonoseki. Premier Ito Hirobumi was the main Japanese representative and they would be conducted in english, with Li Hongzhang using an interpreter, Ito spoke english himself. Li Hongzhang presented official credentials with Emperor Guangxu's seal fixed on them. It's ironic, that when presented, Premier Ito asked why the Emperor used a seal, but no signature as was custom for modern society. Li Hongzhang waved it off stating it was Chinese custom and Ito did not press upon it, but yet again what a metaphor for China's reluctance to modernize. Li Hongzhang began negotiations by pressing upon things the two men used to talk about, pan-asianism vs western threats. In his words “the yellow race must work together to hamper the designs of the white race”. Ito replied “when I was at Tientsin 10 years ago settling the Korea problem, I gave you friendly advice that many reforms were most important for your country but I regret very much that no change whatever has taken place”. To this Li Hongzhang sighed and replied "the trammels of antiquated manners and customs in my country are most difficult to shake off and one cannot follow one's own inclination in effecting reform." Li Hongzhang then argued for the signing of an alliance between China and Japan against the West, which Ito declined. Then later that day, Li Hongzhang presented a proposal for an armistice, which Ito also declined. The main reason Ito Hirobumi was declining the armistice was because of the upcoming operations to invade Taiwan. Ito Hirobumi countered the armistice proposal by stating it would be accepted if the Japanese could occupy Dagu, Tianjin and Shanhaiguan; if China would cede control over railway from Tianjin to Shanhaiguan, which was her only railway at the time; and lastly pay for the cost of such occupation. According to Japanese foreign Minister Mutsu Munemitsu "As Li read this memorandum to himself, his face changed color and he appeared stunned. Over and over, he muttered that the terms were too severe." Li Hongzhang spoke with the Zongli Yamen, who in turn spoke to the Qing Court in Beijing and all agreed to reject such an armistice agreement. On March 24th, Li Hongzhang warned Ito "If the terms [for peace] involve the interests of any other country it would be well to proceed cautiously. Your Excellency said that Japan will attack Formosa [Taiwan]. This explains your objection to the Armistice." This was Li Hongzhang threatening that Western powers would intervene if Japan sought too extensive a price for peace and that China knew what they were up to with Taiwan. As Li Hongzhang left that days meeting to return to his lodgings, a Japanese youth named Koyama Toyotaro crept up to Li Hongzhangs palaquin and shot a pistol at him. The bullet went through Li Hongzhang's left cheek, literally just an inch below his eye. The Japanese police grabbed the man as Li Hongzhang was rushed to physicians to help him. The physicians were astounded with Li Hongzhangs fortitude in the face of such pain, especially since they could not anesthetize him due to his age. The operation would take a long recovery time, so Li Hongzhang decided not to have the bullet removed and simply went on with the negotiations. Now you think President Theodore Roosevelt was a badass,get a load of that. The bullet remained lodged deep under his nose. Emperor Meiji had ordered his personal physician to attend Li Hongzhang with bandages rolled up personally by the Empress. Emperor Meiji followed this up with an official public apology to the Qing government "It was of course incumbent on Us, in observance of international usage and on account of the credit of Our country to treat the Chinese Ambassador with proper courtesy and consideration...Most unfortunately, however, a fanatic has come forward and inflicted injury on the Chinese Ambassador. We are profoundly pained by the incident. The fanatic will of course be punished by Our officials in conformity with law." During the following week Li Hongzhang reported he had received over 10,000 letters of condolence from the Japanese public. This was an incredible loss of face for Japan. The wannabe assassin had very publicly breached the most elementary principle of modern diplomatic conduct. That said, the assassin received life in prison by the way. To restore some of their loss of face, Emperor Meiji granted a 3 week armistice to China, his entire military began pulling their hair out. The armistice was to be partial and not general however. What does that mean you might be asking? Well it meant it applied to the mainland, but not Taiwan and the Pescadore islands. The sneakiness of this was not lost of the press, the North China Herald had this to say “this voluntary sacrifice on Japan's part, is, as a matter of fact, no sacrifice and no armistice at all...[T]he march to Peking will not be continued...[but she] will go on with the subjugation of Taiwan." On March 15th of 1895, a Japanese expeditionary force of 5500 men had set sail for the Pescadore Islands. The Pescadore islands were the key to capturing Taiwan, their occupation would prevent the Qing from sending reinforcements across the Taiwan Strait. The Pescadores were garrisoned by 15 Qing battalions who held a recently created coastal defense battery that was created as a result of the French attacks during the Sino-French war. The Japanese opened up hostilities with a large naval bombardment of the Qing forts and batteries before landing ashore on Fisher Island and Penghu on March 24th. American-Canadian James W Davidson was a war correspondent with the IJA during the invasion of the Pescadore islands and later on Taiwan and he has honestly one of the best accounts on the entire story. So I am actually going to leave it to Mr. Davidson to describe how it went down. On March 20th, after a five days' trip from Sasebo naval station, the expedition, consisting of the fleet and the transports, arrived off the Pescadores and anchored near Pachau island to the south of the principal islands of the group. Bad weather on the 21st and 22nd prevented an immediate attack on the forts; but on the 23rd, the storm having abated, the ships got underway, and at 9.30 a.m., upon the first flying squadron drawing near Hau-chiau [候角?], the fleet subjected the Kon-peh-tai fort to a heavy bombardment, to which the Chinese replied for nearly an hour before they were silenced. During the afternoon, the disembarkation of the troops commenced. By the aid of steam pinnaces each towing several cutters, the troops, consisting of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Companies of the 1st Regiment of reserves under the command of Colonel Hishijima, were all landed in less than two hours. The landing of the troops brought the Kon-peh-tai fort into action again, but without inflicting much damage on the Japanese. The troops on shore engaged in a skirmish with some 300 Chinese soldiers, afterward reinforced by 150 more, near a commanding knoll which both forces were desirous of occupying. After a few volleys from the Japanese, answered by an irregular fire from the Chinese, the latter eventually fled, leaving the position in the hands of the Japanese. Staff-quarters were then established in the village of Chien-shan [尖山社]. At 2.30 on the morning of the 24th, the troops advanced with the intention of taking the Kon-peh-tai fort and Makung (Bako) with a temporary company of mountain artillery under Captain Arai and the naval contingent with quick firing guns under Naval Lieutenant Tajima in the van. The night was very dark and the only available route was so frequently cut up with ditches running in every direction that progress was laboriously slow; only some two miles being made after three hours of painful tramping. By about 4 a.m., the Japanese force had all reached the rallying ground, and thirty minutes later, led by the 2nd Battalion of the 1st Regiment of reserves, were advancing towards the fort. The 5th Company, under the command of Captain Kinoshita, formed the advance guard, and a detachment of this company, under command of Lieutenant Ishii, were the first to engage the Chinese forces, 200 of whom had taken up a position outside the fort and appeared to dispute the advance of the Japanese. The engagement was very brief, the Chinese flying before the small number of determined Japanese. Meanwhile, the temporary battery of mountain artillery had been shelling the fort from a position too far distant to do much damage to the stronghold, but in a manner sufficiently effective to frighten out the garrison, who left in such haste that, thirty minutes after the first gun had been fired, the Japanese were in possession. Thus was the principal port captured in the Pescadores. The naval contingent were also enabled to participate in the engagement, and with their two quick-firing guns did much execution. The 4th Company of the 1st Regiment of reserves and the naval contingent captured the village, after only a slight skirmish with the enemy. The place had been held by a garrison 500 strong. With the 2nd Company of the 1st Regiment of reserves leading the van, the Japanese forces now reassembled and advanced on the capital and principal city of the islands, Makung. No opposition was encountered on the way, with the exception of some ineffective firing from the Yui-wang island fort [漁翁島砲臺]; and upon reaching the city, the 1st Company stormed the Chinese infantry encampment, being followed soon after by the 2nd Company, which dashed through the gateway with the intention of dividing into three sections and attacking the enemy from different sides. But, to their amazement, their plans were found unnecessary, the garrison, with the exception of some thirty who did make a slight show of resistance, having fled. Some shots were fired at a few stragglers, and at 11.50 a.m. the occupation of the city was complete. Another engagement the same day resulted in the capture of the fort in the Yuan-ching peninsula [圓頂半島] by Commander Tanji with a naval force; about 500 of the enemy surrendering without making any resistance whatever. Two days later (March 26th), blue jackets occupied the Yui-wang island forts and found the place empty, the garrison having fled. Soon after the Japanese entered, a native presented himself, apparently on a very important mission, which proved to be the delivery of a letter stating that the Chinese commander and garrison wished to inform the Japanese that they surrendered the fort. Thus fell the key to Southern China. The Chinese prisoners, with the exception of eight officers, were given their liberty. The spoils of the little campaign were considerable, including 18 cannon, 2,663 rifles, over a million rounds of ammunition, 797 casks, and 3,173 bags of powder, a thousand bags of rice, etc., etc. Rear-Admiral Tanaka occupied the post of first governor of the group, and a government office and military post offices were at once erected. While the battle for the Pescadores was raging, both sides were still undergoing negotiations. On April the 1st, Li Hongzhang's nephew, Li Jingfang met with Foreign Minister Mutsu to ask if he could replace his uncle as plenipotentiary. Given the embarrassing nature of the assassination situation, Mutsu agreed to this. That same day the Japanese handed the Qing delegation an 11 page treaty draft. The draft showed the IJN wanted Taiwan, while the IJA sought the Liaodong Peninsula and the bankers wanted a large indemnity. Interesting point to note, Ito Hirobumi was the main architect of the treaty and he modeled it very much on Otto Von Bismarcks treaty after defeating France in 1871. Ito Hirobumi was a great admirer of Bismarck, and he even modeled the Meiji constitution on that of Prussia. Thus he wanted the Treaty of Shimonoseki as it would become known to mirror the key features of the 1871 Treaty of Frankfurt. For those unaware the Treaty of Frankfurt held territorial annexation, a large indemnity payment and occupation of an enemy city until payments were complete. Ironically for those who know their world war history, the possession of Alsace-Lorraine would become the crux of two world wars, and much could be said of Japan's taking of Chinese territories leading to the same conclusion.  The Treaty held much more than the 3 demands however in totality it included, 1) the complete independence and autonomy of Korea 2) Qing cession of the entire coastal region of Manchuria from the Korean border south, including the Liaodong Peninsula, Niuzhuang, Taiwan, and the Pescadore islands 3) the indemnity payment of 300 million taels, to be paid over 4.5 years with a 5% interest rate 4) mandatory Japanese citizenship for residents in the ceded territories 5) a renegotiation of Sino-Japanese commercial treaties to mirror that with the West powers 6) the opening of 7 cities to international commerce, residence and industry (those being Beijing, Xiangtan, Chongqing, Wuzhou, Suzhou, Jiangsu and Hangzhou 7) the opening to international steam navigation of the upper Yangtze 8) exemption from the likin tax 9) Japanese occupation of Port Arthur, Weihaiwei and Fengtianfu until payments were done and 10) an end to all offensive military operations after treaty signing. Big gulp. To sing this would spell the end of Chinese influence not only over Korea, but major parts of Manchuria, and the complete loss of Taiwan and the Pescadore islands. When presented all of this China agreed to the issue of Korea's independence, but when it came to all the territorial claims Li Jingfang argued they were far too excessive. He also argued the indemnity fee was far too high and countered with 200 taels. It was at this point Ito Hirobumi pulled Li Jingfang aside for an informal meeting on April 8th. There he warned Li that time was running out and the closer the IJA got to Beijing the harder it would be to stop the toppling of the Qing Dynasty. Li immediately sent word back to the Qing court pleading for instructions on what to do, but they were not unified with factions emerging in the court fighting over differing issues. The next day the Qing delegation caved in to the Japanese demands with a few changes: 1) Both Japan and China would recognize Korea's independence 2) the territorial cessions would be the Pescadores, and part of Manchuria where it meets the border with Korea, this meant Andong, Kuandian, Fenghuangcheng and Xiuyanzhou 3) the indemnity payment was reduced 4) the Japanese would extend the same rights to Chinese in the ceded territories 5) The new Sino-Japanese trade deals would not be unequal treaties 6) Weihaiwei would be occupied until payments were made 7) all future disagreements would be submitted to international arbitration 8) all military offensives would cease upon signing. On April 10th, Li Hongzhang made the first visit to Ito Hirobumi since his date with the bullet and the talks began with a small exchange of courtesy. Li Hongzhang had this to say to Ito "What you have done for Japan I wanted to imitate for China. Had you been in my place you would know the unspeakable difficulties met with in China." Then Ito Hirobumi presented Japans revised treaty draft now including 1) Japan refused to recognize the neutrality of Korea and demanded China recognize the independence of Korea 2) Japan agreed to limiting territorial concessions, but wanted the Liaodong Peninsula, Nuizhuang, Taiwan and the Pescadores. 3) the indemnity payment was fine 4) Japan could not guarantee Chinese property right in ceded territories 5) Japan could not guarantee equal trade treaties 6) Japan reduced the list of cities to be opened from 7 to 4, Beijing, Xiangtan and Wuzhou were taken off. 7) Japan agreed to just occupy Weihaiwei 8) Japan refused to accept international arbitration to resolve future disputes 9) To stop military operations once this treaty was signed. The Japanese knew it would take another week or two for the delegation to get answers from the court in Beijing, thus giving their forces more time to subdue the Pescadores and Taiwan. Li Hongzhang began haggling more, so Ito Hirobumi pointed out that 60 more IJN transports were lying at anchor in Hiroshima's harbor awaiting the armistice expiration so they could depart for China. An ultimatum was given to the Chinese on April 11th and on the 15th they delegations met again where they simply hashed out the fine details such as waiving the interest rates and they extended the armistice to Taiwan and the Pescadores as by the 17th they were fully occupied. Finally on april the 17th the treaty of Shimonoseki was signed. With the treaty signed, the wolves came out in China to cast blame and cannibalize. Li Hongzhang's rivals at court came after him without mercy. Li Hongzhang for his part arranged to have his nephew take on the responsibilities of handing Taiwan over to Japan, a rough deal.  Now a lot would change, the balance of power in the far east for example. This is a podcast about the history of China so I do not want to delve too much into Japan, but it is important for the history of future events that you know this. Russia watched the war closely and by the end of it, came to the conclusion Japan posed a serious security threat to Russia and that of her expansion of the far eastern railway system. On April the 23rd, just 6 days after the signing of the Treaty of Shimonoseki, the Ministers of France, Germany and Russia called upon the Japanese foreign ministry to offer some friendly advice. They recommended that Japan return the Liaodong Peninsula to the Qing dynasty on the grounds that Japan's possession of it would quote "would be a constant menace to the capital of China, would at the same time render illusory the independence of Korea, and would henceforth be a perpetual obstacle to the peace in the Far East." It was clear to the Japanese, the 3 western powers would intervene militarily if they did not acquiesce on the friendly advice. The IJN was not capable of facing the three navy's of France, Germany and Russia and thus Japan had to give up the Liaodong Peninsula. In truth Russia sought a warm water port in the Pacific, at this time they only had the cold water port of Vladivostok. As soon as Japanese forces had departed the Liaodong Peninsula, Russia immediately began occupying it and tossed immense funds into building up the naval base at Port Arthur. By December of 1897 Russian warships would be brought over to Port Arthur and in March of 1898 Russian formally leased the region for 25 years from China. And so the seeds of believe it or not WW2, had been sown some would argue. I would like to take this time to remind you all that this podcast is only made possible through the efforts of Kings and Generals over at Youtube. Please go subscribe to Kings and Generals over at Youtube and to continue helping us produce this content please check out www.patreon.com/kingsandgenerals. If you are still hungry after that, give my personal channel a look over at The Pacific War Channel at Youtube, it would mean a lot to me. Thus the first-sino Japanese war of 1894-1895 had come to an end. It was one of the most humiliating defeats for the Qing dynasty and yet again was breaking the dynasty brick by brick. For now the carving up of China was to ramp up. 

On this week's episode, Stephen Frothingham, Editor in Chief of Bicycle Retailer & Industry News at Outside, Inc, joins Randall to share his unique perspective on bicycle industry dynamics in general and the bike shop and OEM ecosystem in particular. Steve is an industry veteran who approaches his work with a warmth and curiosity we've long appreciated, and his reporting continues to serve as an influential resource for all of us who work in the space. Episdoe sponsor: Dynamic Cyclist (Promo code THEGRAVELRIDE for 15% off) Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast, I'm going to hand the microphone over to my co-host Randall Jacobs. Who's got Steven Frothingham editor and chief of bicycle retailer and industry news on the show to discuss his unique perspective on bicycle industry dynamics. The general bike shop and OEM ecosystem in particular, Steve is an industry veteran who approaches his work with warmth and curiosity that is so appreciated. His reporting continues to serve as an influential resource to everyone who works in the bicycle retail space. I think you'll get a lot out of this episode, learning a little bit more of the ins and outs of the industry as it all trickles down and has an effect. On us as riders. Before we jump in, I do need to thank this week. Sponsor, dynamic cyclist. The team over at dynamic cyclist has created a video library of stretching and strengthening techniques. Specifically designed around cyclists. The founders, cyclists themselves found a niche in developing this content as it didn't exist before their efforts. They've created hundreds and hundreds of different stretching routines to focus on different parts of the body that affect your performance as a cyclist. It's something for me that has become super important. I've been following the routine since around November last year, really specifically to work on lower back strengthening, but it found that I'm much more disciplined knowing that I've got these 15 to 20 minute episodes always available to me, both streaming from their website or also available from the app. I encourage you to give it a try. They've got a free one week trial, and if it works for you, They're offering gravel ride podcast listeners, a 15% discount off monthly or annual plans. It's quite affordable. I think it's less than a hundred dollars for an entire year's worth of programming. I expect like me I'll dip in and out of it with a heavier focus in the winter, but trying to stay on it, as I realized that stretching needs to be part of my routine. If I'm going to maintain my love and active cycling lifestyle, particularly on the gravel bike, where we all tend to get roughed up a bit. Use the code, the gravel ride to get that 15% off, just put it in the coupon code box@dynamiccyclists.com. When you check out, If that sounds like it's up your alley, I hope you give it a try again. They've got that free one week trial. So why the hell not. With that said, I'm going to hand the microphone off to my co-host Randall Jacobs. And jump right into this conversation with Steven Frothingham. [00:03:11] Randall: You're an old hand in the bike industry in the journalism space. Give us a little bit of background about that. [00:03:17] steve: , know, I started at Brain, I think I was the first editor hired back in think 92. And then I left and worked for the Associated Press twice and then came back into the bike industry to work for, be News for a few years. Uh, left them, went back to Brain, and then the company that owned Be News bought Brain. I ended up back in that same company again, which became outside. So it, yeah, it kind of feels like, uh, even though I don't work for ERs again, I feel like I'm back with the same crew. Uh, I literally was in the same, same desk, same office for a little while. So, uh, that, that seems to be, seems to be the pattern in my career here. [00:03:55] Randall: Just to clarify for our listeners, brain is bicycle retailer where you are currently, uh, editor-in-chief. Correct. [00:04:01] steve: Mm-hmm. [00:04:03] Randall: Tell us a little bit about the nature of that publication. So what role does it serve in the industry? [00:04:09] steve: well, when we started it in 92, you know, the full name is Bicycle Retailer and Industry News. And, uh, the, and was important back then because the, um, the other trade magazines, and believe it or not, there were three others back then were all print magazines. We were the fourth. Um, but they had this real focus on. Kind of this old school dealer thing, like, you know, we're gonna profile this retailer this month. We're gonna do a story on, know, uh, how to hire kids for the summer. We're gonna do a story about how to display your tires. Um, and we're not really gonna write about the industry, the supplier side. So we came along and we were bicycle retailer and industry news. And we used to kinda joke that what we're doing is reporting. We're telling the retailers what the, uh, suppliers are doing to them this month. Um, which is maybe a little bit too cynical, but we, we reported on what the industry was doing. We reported the news of what the supplier side was doing for the most part, which is what the retailers want to read. Um, most retailers, they might say that they'd like to read a story about how to merchandise their tires, but that's kind of broccoli. You know what they were, what really wanna, wanna have is the, uh, the steak and potatoes of, uh, finding out what one of their suppliers, uh, just bought another company or just went bankrupt or just switched factories in Taiwan or, or something like that. And that's the kinda stuff that the, uh, the other titles we're not doing back in the nineties, which is why, uh, this is gonna bring out the competitive bike racer jerk in me. But we, we put the other three out of business in three or four years, I think. Um, it wasn't very long before Brain was the only, uh, industry title in the US and, um, to some extent we're still doing the same thing. Obviously we've had to adapt to social media and the internet, which didn't exist when, when we started the magazine. But, um, we're still doing the same thing. We, we focus on news and, um, You know, we like to do some, we like to profile important retailers once in a while, but for the most part, uh, we still report on what the supplier side is doing with the knowledge that most of our readers are, uh, are retailers independent? [00:06:37] Randall: I actually hadn't appreciated that you were on the founding team for bicycle retailer. So can you share a little bit more about that and who else was involved and how that came to be? [00:06:47] steve: Well, I didn't have an investment unfortunately. Uh, I was, I think I was 22 years old or something, so I was just the first hired gun there. Uh, mark, who still writes for us, was the founding editor, uh, and a partner early on. There was another partner named Bill Sandler, who, uh, passed away quite a few years ago now. Uh, so Mark and Bill were, were really the founders um, Uh, I think they hired a, uh, an office lady named Kathy, and then they hired me. And, uh, that was kind of the start of the fun and, um, you know, and then the company went through various different ownerships, uh, some of which happened when, after I left, when I was, uh, outside the bike world for while. Uh, sometimes I forget it went through three or four different ownerships. Uh, when I came back it was owned by Nielsen of the famous Nielsen Ratings Nielsen, which, uh, owned, uh, trade shows including interbike. And, uh, we were actually operated by the National Bicycle Dealers Association, the nonprofit dealer trade group. Um, so we were owned by Nielsen, which was kind of renamed as Emerald Expositions. Uh, so I think my paycheck came from, now my paycheck came from the Mbda a you know, we went through quite a few years of being run by a very small nonprofit trade association. And then, and then it changed hands. Uh, M BDA a had some financial problems and, uh, we were not exactly helping things. So, uh, we got handed off to, uh, what was then called Pocket Outdoor Media, the company that owned Velo News. They owned Velo Press Draft, fleet Magazine. At that point, uh, Robin Thurston was a minority investor, I believe, in pocket outdoor media. And then, uh, you know, about a year or so after, uh, brain became part of that group, became the ceo, um, started raising money to buy a whole bunch of titles, which you've probably heard about, including Pink Bike Cycling Tips, um, some, uh, some bike events in Colorado. And then eventually the big purchase was raising the money to buy outside Magazine. And, um, company Pocket Outdoor Media was, I think, I think Robin had actually hired a marketing company to come up with a new name for Pocket Outdoor Media, because people thought Pocket Outdoor Media was a billboard company. Uh, and the sales reps didn't like that. Uh, so they were, you know, doing the marketing thing of, of bouncing all these ideas off the wall, coming, trying to come up with a new idea and a new name. And then after they bought Outside magazine, they're like, well, why don't we just, you know, renamed the company outside? we became outside, which things have been moving very quickly. It's, you know, it's a big change for me moving from for a very tiny, little underfunded non-profit trade association from bicycle shops N bda, to working for this multi billion dollar startup basically a tech company. Um, change. And that's why the, the time, you know, I mean, I think back it seems like, you know, a decade ago, but it's only been like two and half years. [00:10:23] Randall: So Robin Thurston is the current c e o of outside the group. And he previously founded is it, uh, map my. [00:10:31] steve: Map my ride, map my run my companies, sold to Under Armor. [00:10:35] Randall: I think that was like 160 million acquisition or something. I remember having this number offhand because it was part of my pitch deck for another company that I was trying to raise money for. It's like, oh here's a comparison point of this company that was acquired in the space. [00:10:50] steve: Yeah, I mean map where I was kind of ahead of the curve with doing some of the stuff that Strava's doing now, and uh, now and outside. We have Gaia, which is a, mapping app that's primarily used by hikers and skiers. And then trail Forks, which was developed by Pink Bike as a mapping app mostly for mountain bikers. [00:11:12] Randall: It's quite well regarded of, of seen in some of the forums. People are very keen on that particular application in the quality of the routes there [00:11:19] steve: are really good. They do have their niches. I use Gaia for backcountry skiing and it, it works really well. And it's, uh, uh, you know, we could go way down a rabbit hole, but you know, why I choose to use Gaia when I'm skiing and why I use trail forks when I'm mountain biking and why I use, don't know what else when I'm road biking. I don't know. But, you know, each has its own, uh, its own advantages in different spaces. So, yeah. Robin, made his fortune, I think, fair to say, selling that company to, uh, under Armour. And then he worked for Under Armour for a while. I think he was the Chief Technology Officer at Under Armor, uh, left and did some other stuff, and then eventually came back to this group. [00:12:02] Randall: So you started when you were 22, essentially first hire for bicycle retailer, this fledgling industry magazine with a particular point of view that resonated with dealers. What drew you to this particular space? You studied journalism in college. Were you an avid cyclist? [00:12:18] steve: Yeah. All that. Yeah. Uh, I was a cyclist. From day one, I started in B BMX when I was a little turd. Uh, I'm definitely, I'm totally of that age now where, you know, I'm 55 now and I go to the shows and I see these retro BMX bikes that some of the companies are doing. My light up, oh, there's that red that I wanted when I was, now I buy it. I've resisted so far, but yeah, I started in bmx. I did mountain bike races back in the eighties and road racing and, and, uh, and yeah, then I, I got a journalism degree and I did work completely outside the bike world for about 10 years, the Associated Press, covering presidential politics in New Hampshire where the presidential primary is a big deal. So that was really fun. I think I covered three or four primaries in New Hampshire. Plus the usual AP stuff of plane crashes and lost hikers and syrup and lost mooses and stuff like that. [00:13:18] Track 1: Standard, Northeast Fair. [00:13:19] steve: Yeah. Typical New Hampshire stuff. [00:13:21] Track 1: And remind me where you grew up. [00:13:24] steve: in New England. Uh, I was born just a little north of where you are in Salisbury, Massachusetts. And, uh, my family moved up into New Hampshire when I was a teenager. And then when I came back, when I worked for the Associated Press, I lived in Wolfborough, New Hampshire for about 10 years. [00:13:38] Track 1: So you and I when we chat tend to go off in various tangents so, where would you like to go? Or, or we can start with the email that you sent me yesterday about shaman cues. [00:13:49] steve: yeah. I could interview you on that. What do you know? [00:13:52] Track 1: Well, you're the one, the inside line. Yeah. You saw the press release. [00:13:56] steve: the inside line yet. You know, I'm just starting my research and I'm, I'm going to Taiwan next week, so hopefully I'll learn a lot more over there. But, it looks like a fairly significant development, this cues thing. I was sitting through a, I think it was an hour long video recording from Shaman about it yesterday. And, I got antsy halfway through and started calling people and emailing people, and, uh, video was moving too slowly. So like, I need some more need. I need to check in with some people around the industry here to see what they think. [00:14:27] Track 1: For those listening, shaman released a new, not just group set, but family of group sets on their kind of entry to entry, mid-level. And, it's significant for reasons that go beyond simply, here's some new parts. They have a reputation for using constantly varying standards and interfaces and pull ratios, which is the ratio of cable pull to, gear shifting. so how much cable pulls results in how much movement of the derailer constantly varying that, not just year to year, but from group to group in order to avoid cross compatibility with third party components and even within their own groups so that brands don't mix and match. Say you want a higher end quote unquote, set of levers connected to a lower injury derail because you don't see the value in the higher end derailer. Well, they preclude that by adjusting the pull ratios from group to group. And so what they've done with cues is make it such. The pull ratio is the same across all the groups, even with different speeds. And the thing that the major differentiator between the different levels is the number of years. the cog spacing in the back is the same. , and I think that that's quite significant. and it signals something too. I think it's very much in favor of riders. And it helps shops as well. I think it helps the industry more generally, but it's also indicative of a shift in the power dynamic in the bike industry. , in many ways is the new shaman, they're in the ascendant. They have, , a number of standards that they have put out there that have gotten adoption, that they have defended through patents and, in some cases, litigation and so I, I view it in the context of, innovation and competitiveness in the bike industry. [00:16:09] steve: Yeah, that makes sense. I think even Shaman used the word realistic, meaning that the new groups, they like to say that the technology that makes them special is in the cogs. Not in the chain. not so much in the crank set or the derailer. which allows mix and match so if somebody wants to spec a cassette, whether it's, Nine, 10 or 11 speed with a different crank, with a different chain, it'll still work okay, because there's nothing, it doesn't require any kind of special chain and the, the magic isn't in the chain. It's in the cassettes. So yeah, I think it's more realistic. I mean, obviously the development of this began before the pandemic and the part shortage that was through the pandemic. But, what happened in the pandemic with all these, new third party, fourth party parts coming up, getting a second look, people taking a second look at, whether it's micro shift or, uh, tetra breaks or whatever. Anything they can get. this really kind of seals the deal. This kind of tells you that, , For the next few years, we're probably gonna see more and more of these mixed groups, at least at the lower price. this is all below 1 0 5 on the road, below Dior, 12 speed or 11 speed on the mountain bike side. So everything that was cheaper than Dior and down on the mountain bike, everything that was cheaper than 1 0 5 is now queues [00:17:39] Randall: Which is to say en entry level to, uh, lower mid-level stuff, which is also good stuff. They have, clutch derails 11 speed. It does look to be quality components. [00:17:49] steve: Yep. [00:17:50] Track 1: Yeah. [00:17:50] steve: it's not the electric shifting, it's not the 12 speed. [00:17:52] Track 1: Oh, of course not. No. That, that stuff's still locked down. So, um, in fact, uh, [00:17:58] steve: is a di two group as part of this, as the, um, more, more for the mountain bike, E mountain bike group, there's a DI two. [00:18:06] Track 1: presumably sharing a battery, I haven't dived into that yet. Um, [00:18:11] steve: the one that has the uh, uh, the front freewheeling system and the antilock brakes that they launched at Eurobike last year. [00:18:18] Track 1: got it. [00:18:19] steve: Yeah. [00:18:20] Track 1: Yeah, it's, it's interesting. You, you'll, you may recall that in the past I was looking to, uh, create an open platform for bicycle electronics, and. And was trying to corral the support of that. Um, all those third parties that, that Taiwan vendor base that was shut out of the theam shaman duopoly. Um, I think, uh, probably a little bit before its time. Uh, certainly the, the appetite wasn't there for investments. Um, there was, there was interest, but not in, not any investment dollars coming in from the Taiwan side at that time. Uh, but since then we've seen, I mean, electronic is, well now you have a protocol that you can lock down and so you don't have to vary. It used to be that you vary pull ratios or some sort of mechanical, mechanical interface between components. Now you lock down the communication protocol and the power grid, and in that way you, you constrain interoperability between components from third parties. . Uh, and then you have a lot of patents around the grifter, which is, um, I would argue the, the center, the nexus of power in the bicycle industry, um, is arguably the road grifter, the road brake shift lever. And with it now, the, you know, the, the cas and, uh, you know, with electronic, the electronic protocol, power grid, things like that. Because if you control, you know, even if you just control all, you've patented every single way that you can make a lever swing, [00:19:47] steve: Right. [00:19:48] Track 1: and you know, and that, and then now you control this lever, well, that lever dictates that the caliper has to be from the same. Producer as well, because of safety reasons. You can't mix and match a caliper with a different hydraulic brake system. And then for the electronic, same deal, you know, it controls like you, you just have a closed protocol and nobody else can connect with that. And now you control the interfaces between the levers, the cas, the derails, um, and the bike itself. And now you can dictate, you know, we, we want this particular break interface. And so we see, you know, uh, flat mounts and so on. We see the new universal derail your hangar, uh, that STR introduced, which I haven't, I haven't gone deep on the patent yet, but I, I wonder, do you know if that precludes other companies from attaching a derailer in the same way if they, if they forego that universal hangar? [00:20:45] steve: No, I think Sharon's being pretty open with, with giving licenses to it, but I dunno about other third party. I mean, and at what point are we gonna have another, you know, swam shaman lawsuit, like from back in the eighties or nineties, whenever that was, that the bundling, you know? So at what point did the electronic, um, protocols become open source because of an antitrust law? The antitrust lawsuit? I think it's unlikely. Cause I don't know who would challenge 'em at this point. [00:21:18] Track 1: it's, uh, the bike co. [00:21:20] steve: you got something planned. [00:21:21] Track 1: Um, you know, we're, we're a tiny little blip on, on the grander, um, bike industry and, uh, you know, [00:21:29] steve: 1991. [00:21:30] Track 1: yeah. Well, so is it, is it true or, or answer this however you like? Um, I have, I wasn't around, um, for. At the time that that was happening. And so I get, I have second in hand information from people who were there or were adjacent to it. And then I have what I've read, but my understanding is, um, so was originally grip shift. Grip shift had a different way, uh, twisting the grip on a flat bar lever to shift a rear dera and Shao would try to preclude compatibility by again, changing the pull ratios so that Sam's grip shift wouldn't work with their deras. But then also by having these bundling deals where they go to a bike company, an o e m, uh, original equipment manufacturer. So in this case, like thesis is a, my company is an o e em specializes an no e em truck as no em, and would say, okay, you can buy these components individually, but if you buy the complete group set I e you don't buy's thing, then you get a 20% discount. I think is, is what it was. [00:22:35] steve: Could be. [00:22:36] Track 1: yeah, and there was an antitrust suit that STR filed against Shaman, um, and STR one. And as I understand it, that essentially funded Sam's early rise. That's the reason why we have STR in many ways. [00:22:51] steve: all. I mean, I think there's some other money behind [00:22:53] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:22:54] steve: uh, yeah, that's always been sort of the, uh, the, uh, the urban myth. I don't know the, the STR used that money to go out and, you know, buy all, all the things that they've bought. Rock shocks, true native, um, zip [00:23:11] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:23:12] steve: whatever. And, uh, sax, which nobody really remembers now, but that was a pretty significant purchase. Uhs, not Richard Sax the, uh, frame builder from Connecticut, but, uh, sax of Germany, which, uh, made all the internal hubs and also made derailers and stuff, [00:23:29] Track 1: And chains too. Right? Because I think. [00:23:31] steve: chains, um, became s chains, which became Ram chains. Um, [00:23:37] Track 1: are still made in Portugal, I believe. [00:23:39] steve: I think so, [00:23:40] Track 1: Yeah. [00:23:41] steve: so yeah, they, they acquired that factory. Haven't, you know, chain factory is no small thing. And, um, anyway, that's always been the, you know, um, the rumor Yeah. Is that they used that cash settlement or, or judgment from Shaman to fund those. Uh, I don't know how true that is. Like I said, I know that there is some other money behind Swam and there still is. Um, some of those companies that they bought were, uh, pretty distressed [00:24:12] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:24:13] steve: You know, rock Jocks had had an IPO that, uh, were living at the top of the world there for a couple years [00:24:19] Track 1: The mountain bike. The mountain bike. Boom. [00:24:22] steve: Yeah. And then that kind of crashed and that's about when, when into the Suspension Fork business. [00:24:28] Track 1: Yeah. [00:24:30] steve: So they've been pretty savvy about the, uh, the acquisitions they made Mo most of which were back, back in the nineties. Although, what have they bought recently? They bought, [00:24:40] Track 1: Hammerhead. [00:24:42] steve: hammerhead. [00:24:43] Track 1: Yeah. [00:24:44] steve: one. [00:24:44] Track 1: Yeah. [00:24:45] steve: Yeah. And, uh, and the Power Meter company. I don't, the power tab, which they kinda put [00:24:51] Track 1: cork. [00:24:52] steve: then, [00:24:52] Track 1: Cork, um, was power meters. Um, [00:24:55] steve: power Tap, which they bought from cs, [00:24:58] Track 1: oh, that's right. [00:24:59] steve: what was [00:25:00] Track 1: Uh, shocks. [00:25:02] steve: Jacquez [00:25:03] Track 1: Yeah. [00:25:04] steve: and uh, what was the other one I was gonna say they bought something else. Oh, time pedals. [00:25:14] Track 1: Hmm. So that really gives them, you know, a lot of different, um, components and IP that they can then, uh, interconnect through that. The access, uh, protocol, which is a closed, I believe, ZigBee based, um, protocol. Um, and so, you know, getting back to, you know, open versus closed standards and ecosystems and things like that, um, it seems to be the trend in the industry as, as always to, um, to have walled gardens. [00:25:41] steve: Yeah. And that's been fun. You know, it was fun to see when, when Hammerhead, was, had had some di I two integration that Shaman shut him down [00:25:53] Track 1: Yep. [00:25:54] steve: on after Bottom, which was, um, some pretty good industry gossip right there. Um, but yeah, I mean, everybody, it's been really fun speculating about what's gonna happen, you know, with RAM owning, uh, you know, the power meter company owning a pedal company, owning a, you know, power tap, which made, which used to make power meter pedals. Um, and then owning a, a head unit GPS company on top of that. And then, like you said, the whole integration with access and, uh, it's pretty fun. [00:26:26] Track 1: Yeah, it's the full stack in a way. I mean, [00:26:28] steve: them battling, you know, setting up this not only with Shaman, but with, with, uh, with Fox Factory also. [00:26:38] Track 1: I'm waiting to, for, it seems very natural that a next step for them would to be, would be to buy, say a, a company that makes home trainers or even a company that does training software that, um, they might not want to go direct head-to-head with Swift, cuz Wif has such a dominant position in that space and they don't want to alienate them or get shut off of that platform. But, um, it seems like a natural next step to get into this burgeoning home cycling, uh, space, which granted has. Tapered off a little bit since, you know, post pandemic, but I think is still, you're, you know, there's a whole, there's a whole range of cyclists who primarily ride at home and are doing competitions in virtual worlds, and I don't think that that's going to change as the technology gets better. [00:27:22] steve: Yeah. [00:27:24] Track 1: Yeah. [00:27:24] steve: Yeah, that would make sense. I'm sure there's been all sorts of conversations and there's been a couple brands that have come and gone, um, that, uh, you know, maybe, uh, ceramic has kind of hit its lip and said, no, we're, we're not gonna bid on that one. Or we're not gonna, we're not gonna overpay for that one. I don't know. But, you know, you can look at the, the number of indoor brands that have, uh, had financial problems in the last, uh, year and a half, and, uh, even once before that, that just disappeared. Um, have you seen a kinetic trainer on the market in a couple years? I. [00:28:02] Track 1: Yeah. So what else do you see happening in the bike industry? Um, so obviously parts shortages were the big story during the pandemic. Now we have, uh, parts being, you know, liquidated through various channels and presumably is that's going to accelerate, uh, post Taipei show coming up in, uh, in Taiwan in, uh, the end of March [00:28:25] steve: Yeah, I think so. I think there's still some, some shortages I hear on the road bike component side. I guess you'd know more about that than, than I would. Um, [00:28:34] Track 1: saying group sets or. [00:28:37] steve: yeah, and, and the bikes that those group sets. Hang on. You know, I think, um, know, if you talk to dealers, it's, uh, yeah, they have all the $900 mountain bikes. They can, they can eat, uh, or even I think the 1500, $1,900 bikes, but the, um, the mid to high price mountain bikes are, are a little bit harder to get. And I think also the, um, mid to high price road bikes are hard to get. And, um, and there's kind of a shortage of, there's kind of a dearth of, of. Of really affordable road bikes. [00:29:13] Track 1: Hmm. [00:29:14] steve: I think, uh, there's not a lot of groups there, you know, I mean, tram's got and then, you know, shaman hasn't been, had a real good road group, uh, below 1 0 5 for years. So, you know, it'd be interesting and see how cues affects, affects that. [00:29:34] Track 1: Well, and their, their transition to 12 speed too. Um, and they had a, a factory catch on fire just before the pandemic, right. [00:29:43] steve: Yeah. What was that? It was a, was it like an ANOT factory or something? I know they were making some real high end stuff. Like they were making like the xtr crank, you know, when, when Xtr went to 12 speed, I think they couldn't get a crank for it for like two years. Right. [00:29:59] Track 1: Hmm. [00:29:59] steve: they were like, relabeling, theor, xt cranks. people were pissed about and Uh, yeah, I don't know. It it's, yeah. Fires in the bike in factory fires in the bike industry. That's, that's been, uh, yeah, that's been a gossipy thing going back, you know, 50 years. I think you can get some old timers telling you about famous fires and how they couldn't get such and such for, for five years after that fire. And sometimes I wonder much of it's urban myth, you know, and people just blaming things on their inability to produce stuff. They blame it on a factory fire. Didn't you hear about that? Come on. Giant factory burned out last year. And uh, I think especially before the internet, who would check, you know, it's like, ah, I don't know. I heard that like the van sneaker factory burned down last year. Didn't you hear about that? That's why I can't get those van sneakers I've been looking for. before the internet it was pretty hard to look that up. Now it's a little bit easier, you know? [00:30:55] Randall: Now you've been, so I think probably both of us have been talking to a lot of dealers lately for different reasons. Um, with, with me, we've been building out our, our dealer network for our logo spiel program. Um, and I'm curious to hear, I'll share a little bit about what I've been hearing and I'm curious how that, um, relates to, you know, some of the things that you've been hearing from dealers. So some of the things I've heard is, um, well one, you have, uh, essentially you weren't able to get product for a long time. A lot of dealers over ordered or ordered the same thing from multiple sources, hoping to get it from somewhere, um, sooner rather than later. And then all of it got dumped on the, on dealers in the fall and over the winter at exactly the time when. you know, nothing is selling generally, it's, it's the, the doldrums of the, the bike, uh, selling season and cycling season in North America anyways. But then also, you know, people, uh, with, with the country opening up post covid, um, you know, the bike boom was, was coming to an end and it wasn't clear. You know, where things will, you know, how that will level off and how much lag there will be, where everyone who got a b wanted a bike, got a bike and you know, the, you know, at at what point and, and you know, the secondhand market will start coming down in price and that'll become more compelling. So how long will it take for this lag of, of certain types of components to work its way through the space? Um, and it's been interesting too, you see, um, an ex, am I right that there's an acceleration of the big brands buying shops? [00:32:27] steve: Uh, depends on what time scale you're looking at. I, you know, I don't, I think, um, I think that's slowed down in the last six months or, or nine months. There was a big acceleration, you know, in, in 21, especially, uh, I think it was 21 when, you know, track had been buying shops left and right. Uh, specialized had not. [00:32:50] Track 1: Yep. [00:32:51] steve: um, when Mike's bikes sold to, uh, to pawn in, I think, I wanna say that was 2021. [00:32:59] Track 1: Pawn being the owner of, uh, Cervelo Santa Cruz and a handful of other brands. And Mike Spikes being a big multi-store chain, mostly in, in the NorCal, um, you know, bay Area. Yeah, [00:33:12] steve: Yeah. And they were the, I think the single biggest specialized dealer in the country and one of the, or maybe the most important markets in the country, the [00:33:19] Track 1: I think, I think Eric's was their biggest, I think Mike's bikes was number two. [00:33:24] steve: could [00:33:24] Track 1: but certainly the Bay Area is huge and a lot of, um, you see a lot of. S works, you know, $15,000 bikes rolling around the Bay Area. [00:33:35] steve: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot more of the high end stuff than, than Eric's sell, I'm sure. [00:33:40] Track 1: Yeah. [00:33:41] steve: Um, and it did, and it did kind of seem like Specialized had all their eggs in that basket. Um, they didn't have a lot of other dealers. It was just Eric. I mean, uh, Mike's just ruled the rot anyway, so Yeah. Specialized really woke up. Uh, that was, that was the wake up call for Mike Ard was, oh my God, we're, we're losing our distribution. Um, and it came on, they lost some other big dis uh, big retail distributions like, uh, um, ables in, in, uh, hill Abel down in Austin, Texas, which was a huge specialized dealer that Trek walked in and bought, um, all of a sudden specialized, lost its biggest dealer in Austin, Texas, which is another, you know, another one of the handful of very biggest markets in the country. [00:34:27] Track 1: And growing, growing rapidly with a lot of deep pocketed folks as well who tend to buy their, their high-end stuff. Yeah. [00:34:34] steve: So all of a sudden specialized, uh, said we've gotta get into buying shops. And, uh, they were running around buying a lot of shops. Um, I think they did not have the system set up that Trekk did for, uh, processing these shops once they had acquired 'em. Uh, so it was a little bit more chaotic, whereas I think Trekk had built up to it slowly and they had, you know, from what the stories I've heard of, you know, TREKK has these SWAT teams that come in when they buy a shop. You know, there's just woo uh, you know, 20, 20 people come down from Waterloo and, and fill up the hotel rooms and whatever town that they just bought the dealership in and just handle that transition. You know, they usually shut down for a week or so, pop up some new signs, change over the website, uh, make some people some offers, and, uh, and they're, you know, kick out all the other brands and, uh, they're up and running again in a couple weeks. And, um, They've got it down to a science now and uh, I don't think specialized ever quite got to that. It was more like, uh, yeah, okay, we bought you, um, keep running. We'll talk to you in a few months when we need something from you. Uh, that was some of the impression I got anyway. I think specialized also was overpaying for some of the shops from some of the stories I heard, but, um, but I think it all slowed down a lot last, last year, I think with the, um, you know, with the economy and I think, um, the cashflow for companies like Specialized Amtrak I think became harder. And there's been a handful of acquisitions in the last nine months, but it, it really slowed down a lot um, I haven't heard it very many recently. We don't hear about 'em all cuz both, both track and specialize. Uh, tend to be really quiet when they buy a, a shop or a chain of shops. Uh, but I haven't heard many rumors in the last three or four months. [00:36:26] Track 1: I've heard, granted, I don't know the, uh, the dates on these, but as I've been talking to dealers, I've heard about offers being made, but those offers may have been made, you know, six, nine months ago, a year ago or something like that. Um, but there's definitely been a lot of, um, a lot of conversations being had along those lines over the past year, year and a half or so. Um, and it's interesting, you know, there's this long standing conversation in the bike industry about, um, you know, the dynamic between, or the balance between, uh, direct to consumer sales over the internet, which is growing for obvious reasons. And the pivotal role that the bicycle shop, particularly independent shops play, um, as a hub for the cycling community. And how do you. You know, how do you maintain this critical bit of community infrastructure, um, in a, in a world where, you know, increasingly people can buy things very conveniently over the internet and have it delivered, um, you know, directly to them. Now there's, you know, service has for a long time, um, been the bread and butter of shops. And a lot of shops pre pandemic were at least telling me, um, that they, as much as they spent a lot of their money on having bikes on the floor, most of their income, most of their net profit was coming from, um, service and parts and accessories. Uh, which is in some ways, you know, supplemental to service. Cuz when you go in for maintenance, you're getting chains and, and other service parts. Um, but how do you, how do you see that evolving over time from your vantage point? [00:38:07] steve: It's been hard. I mean, uh, when you hear that, you think, well, why don't you do a service only place? And, [00:38:15] Track 1: of folks are [00:38:17] steve: a few folks are, I'm not finding a whole lot of great examples of people that have been raging successes doing that. Um, Uh, you know, the whole, the whole mobile service thing has been at best for the last two or three years. Um, you know, I know that, um, a few people that have gone that way in, um, in the Boulder area haven't been hugely successful. I think there might be a couple that are still running, but, um, the problem is that you just lose that volume. You know, whether you make a lot of money on a bike sale or not, it's still, you know, thousand, 2000, 3000, $5,000 bike sale. You know, for some shops in Boulders, I know you were and visited some of them, you know, they pretty regularly are selling 10,000 and [00:39:08] Track 1: sure. [00:39:09] steve: uh, bikes. And, you know, the profit margin on that not be huge. And you might say, well, why does that guy even, you know, still sell mo bikes? Um, he can make more money building a wheel or, you know, just charging someone a few hundred dollars to install a new campy group on a moot spring. Um, but he nee he needs that, that dollar volume, uh, from the bike sale to pay the rent. Um, so there, there haven't been as many examples of that as you would think. you know, going back five years, going back 20, 30 years, people have been talking about, well, hey, we make all our money in service. Why don't we just do service hasn't worked for many people. Um, I think people expect bike shops to have bikes and, uh, I think the bike shops need that, that volume to make it work. Um, you know, some shops have been, have found some supplemental income doing more different types of service, whether it's, you know, whether it's bike fits, whether it's click and collect fulfillment. Or, uh, doing warranty service. You know, I know I, I talked to a guy at Caba who does warranty service for one of the better known to consumer e-bike brands. And, uh, he makes a pretty significant, high margin chunk of money, uh, just from dealing with warranty service from people that buy these bikes online and then have, have whatever troubles and the, uh, the brand reimburses him, uh, pretty generously. [00:40:46] Track 1: Yeah. [00:40:47] steve: so there's all sorts of, uh, kind of ancillary things around the edges that people fill in, but that guy, he still sound a lot of bicycles. [00:40:55] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:40:56] steve: Uh, he still has a warehouse full of 'em, and, uh, um, [00:41:01] Track 1: as do a lot of people right now, especially as we, we were saying on the, on the more entry level, um, in particular, [00:41:09] steve: Yeah. So I don't know. I haven't seen, there's, there's examples here and there. Yeah. Of, of the people who are, who are focusing on the service or are looking into, you know, more of the showrooming, uh, fulfillment click and collect kind of models. And there, you know, there's a million different models as you know, [00:41:27] Track 1: Mm-hmm. Well and, and click and collect and, [00:41:31] steve: not, I'm not finding, but like wholesale, you know, all the bike shops going outta business and all of a sudden we have a whole bunch of just little fulfillment showrooms around. Um, is happening, but not on a huge scale, you know, I mean, what specializes do, I don't know how many of these fulfillment centers they have. Uh, that's one of the things they did up in Northern California where, um, after they lost Mikes was opening up these little fulfillment centers. They would just rent a warehouse space in the, you know, in the business park somewhere and hire a couple people to assemble bikes and give 'em a truck, and they would run around and deliver 'em. [00:42:10] Track 1: Oh, that wa that was basically, um, velo, fix's pitch to the OEMs in the day. Yeah. Uh, Veli fix, uh, being a van based service operator, [00:42:21] steve: Yeah. [00:42:21] Track 1: I know you know this [00:42:22] steve: to be doing a better job of that than, than maybe be, was, um, [00:42:29] Track 1: velo fix. I, [00:42:30] steve: model. [00:42:30] Track 1: yeah. I had spoken with Velix a couple of times, and not only could I not understand the value to us as an o e em as a brand, but I couldn't understand a, you know, they, they required a huge upfront and, uh, investment from their franchisees to not just buy a van but outfitted a particular way and have it beli, fixed, branded. Um, and then, you know, you're paying a, uh, I think an, um, it might have been an upfront fee and then a recurring fee, and then a percentage of your income. To this company and this company, uh, is supposed to drive business to your franchise, but really in a way, they're kind of intermediating you. And at the end of the day, you know, and the co I, I'm curious, what do you think about this? Um, I, I had always talked, uh, spoken to the van based folks that I knew and said like, you know, at the end of the day, your, your brand is yourself and the quality of service and your engagement with your local community. And, you know, there's no big, um, company, uh, I think can substitute for that. And I think the bike space is, is that might be more so the case than in other spaces. Like you have this particular mechanic, uh, because the difference between a good mechanic, a skilled mechanic, a mechanic who cares, uh, and, and does a good job, um, and is engaged in, in their community. The difference between that and. Somebody who doesn't, somebody who doesn't have the skills. Somebody who, you know, it could be the difference between a safe bike and an unsafe bike amongst other things. Yeah. Um, well, so another topic that you and I have touched on in the past is, uh, you. The supply chain and risks to the supply chain. Uh, I've seen a couple of articles, I believe in your publication, uh, talking about, um, the increasing concerns about exposure to, uh, growing hostilities between, uh, the US and China over, uh, Taiwan. And I'm curious, what have you been hearing, seeing, uh, with regards to, um, any sort of changes being made on the, uh, upstream for a lot of companies, um, both, um, OEMs who are sourcing in Asia, but then also say Taiwanese companies and so on, uh, who are producing, um, you know, what, what changes are you seeing? Are people, is that accelerating at all with the, uh, increasingly hostile rhetoric? [00:45:07] steve: Uh, yeah, but you know, slower than maybe I would've expected. Um, and that, you know, that might not be due to reluctance, but just the fact that it's, it's a hard task, um, [00:45:19] Track 1: Yeah. [00:45:20] steve: setting up a, a bike factory or, uh, in a new country and building the infrastructure around it, uh, to make that work, particularly during a pandemic. [00:45:30] Track 1: Yeah, yeah. [00:45:31] steve: so, you know, going back to stories I was writing two years ago, you know, I, I think I saw just recently that Velo Saddle opened their factory in Vietnam, I think it was, [00:45:44] Track 1: Makes sense. [00:45:45] steve: that they had been working on for like three years. Um, and then they just, they were ready to turn it on when the pandemic started, and then they just, um, sat on those plans for a couple years. But yeah, Velo moving outta Taiwan supplementing their Taiwan factory with uh, a Vietnam factory is a big deal. And, um, You know, and at Eurobike last year, I had a lot of talks with people about, them setting up different factories in Eastern Europe to serve the European market. Um, but, uh, you know, we just saw investing in a new factory in Taiwan, so, uh, there's not a, there's not a mess exodus yet, and I think people are, are finding it's, um, fairly hard to operate in some of these other countries. Cambodia, I think, turned out to be more of a challenge than some people thought. [00:46:44] Track 1: Sure [00:46:45] steve: Um, you know, there's stuff moving towards Malaysia and Singapore, I think. Um, [00:46:52] Track 1: in the. [00:46:53] steve: Vietnam has been up and down. They had more covid problems than, than some areas, I think. yeah, it's a very slow movement. I think, you know, um, you know, Trek hasn't broken ground on a giant new factory in, in Waterloo, as far as I know. Or, or, or in Mexico or in, uh, Bulgaria. You know, [00:47:16] Track 1: Well, that, that's a whole, I mean, it's a related conversation, um, and a whole other can of worms that we can crack open. Um, so one, you know, we, we have looked, um, at various times over the years at what it would take, um, both for us to do more production domestically, um, but then also, um, for more production to be done domestically in a general sense. And, uh, I'll give an example. Um, recently I was looking at, uh, you know, developing and sourcing a metal frame, either steel or titanium. Um, we'll, we'll stick with steel. It's an easier example. So, um, called, uh, a few different outfits and, uh, well one, there isn't really anyone who's mass producing steel frames in the US When I say mass producing, like doing, you know, thousand of units at a go. Um, with the exception of maybe Kent. [00:48:09] steve: Detroit. [00:48:11] Track 1: Uh, Detroit bikes [00:48:13] steve: Mm-hmm. [00:48:14] Track 1: they, and they're serving as a contract manufacturer? [00:48:17] steve: Mm-hmm. [00:48:20] Track 1: Might ask for an intro at some point. Um, [00:48:22] steve: That's Tony Kirklands, [00:48:24] Track 1: oh, okay. [00:48:25] steve: who bought, um, he and his partner bought time, [00:48:30] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:48:30] steve: is making carbon frames in Europe somewhere. Slovenia, [00:48:36] Track 1: Okay. [00:48:36] steve: of those European companies, [00:48:37] Track 1: Yeah, [00:48:38] steve: Um, and then that company car, it's called Cardinal Bicycle Works, I think, uh, also bought Detroit. Uh, they're, they claim to be the biggest steel frame maker in the US and uh, they're making stuff under their own. Name and they're doing a couple other contract [00:48:58] Track 1: that. [00:48:58] steve: some, they made some Schwinn Varsities a couple years ago. I mean, I think that was only a few hundred units or a or so. But they actually, they brought Backy made, made Detroit? [00:49:11] Track 1: Well, one of the, the things that's great to hear, and I'm gonna follow up on that, um, one of the things that kept coming up as I was having conversations here was there are essentially two primary, um, sources, uh, brands that are selling, uh, tube sets. Unless you're sourcing factory direct outta somewhere in Asia, uh, I think you have colo. You have, uh, what Columbus some in some Reynolds. And one of, one of them has been struggling with supply and both of them are, are quite expensive in the US vis-a-vis what you can get comparable tube sets for in Asia. And so when you combine those two factors of both more expensive raw stock and the fact that you can't, you don't know it's going to be available and you only have two supply, two primary suppliers versus if I want to make, uh, a frame somewhere in Asia, I have. Countless tube suppliers now don't necessarily want to use just any of them, but even the, the higher end ones, of which there may be a handful, they still have the, all these other factories kind of nipping at their heels. And that, you know, drives innovation. That drives, uh, you know, them to build this sort of, um, you know, production facilities that can handle scale, that are responsive. Uh, they know if they can't deliver on a tight timeframe for a reasonable price, that someone else is gonna develop that capacity to do so. Um, and that goes across every single thing that you could want to source for a bicycle, whether it's something like a carbon component you want to develop. You have any number of facilities where you could co-develop that, that component. And they'll even provide the engineering, in some cases, they'll latize the tooling over the, over the units, which is to say, like, spread the cost of the tooling over the units, the, the tooling costs. You know, my tooling costs for a frame is on the order of like 8,000 bucks a size. . Um, and I could have that built into the price if I do enough volume. That's, you know, you combine all of these factors and, you know, going back to the issue of, of Taiwan, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that you're not seeing moves and mass just because you have such deep and interconnected supply chains there. And even like when you get your goods quoted, they quote it, um, not out of the factory. They deliver it to your door. And that's just expected. And when they say they're gonna deliver it, generally they're pretty on time. Um, particularly, you know, the, the, the better vendors out there, the more professional ones, the velo, uh, you know, velo makes not just saddles, but bar tape and they do most of the high-end stuff in the industry. Uh, still there are a couple competitors, but, um, and it's because they just do such a great job. Um, and that efficiency. And, uh, another example, I was sourcing stems years ago. and I was like, oh, I'm, yeah. I lived in a, I lived in China for a number of years. Uh, I bet you I can find a better deal somewhere in China. I couldn't, Taiwan had better pricing on a superior product. Um, and it's because Taiwan had, um, invested in, you know, factories like, uh, jd, um, their trade name is Trans X. [00:52:15] steve: mm-hmm. [00:52:15] Track 1: they manufacture for any number of brands. They did all of our, uh, cockpit stuff, uh, for thesis, and they just have a very well run production facility in these huge forging machines and really high quality tooling. And they can just crank out high quality 3D forg stems all day with that high quality and without a, a huge, with a less and less human intervention in that process. Um, and, you know, do it at a price that makes it such that, you know, there's no point in going somewhere else. Um, because most of the cost is not associated with the labor. [00:52:52] steve: Yeah. [00:52:53] Track 1: Um, so yeah, that, that makes sense. It'll be interesting. Uh, you know, I'm, as you know, I did my, my graduate studies in US-China relations, and so it's a situation I've been following quite closely. Um, I guess, uh, if something does happen there, uh, the availability of bike parks, it will be the, the least of everybody's issues, [00:53:13] steve: Yeah. Yeah, that's a thing. I mean, there, there won't be many parts of the economy that won't be affected, um, if something happens there. But, um, bike industry will not be an exception, [00:53:24] Track 1: now, [00:53:25] steve: um, except for maybe on the service part. Right. Still, uh, we can still maybe [00:53:31] Track 1: secondhand stuff will be, um, the secondary market will be booming, [00:53:35] steve: Yeah. [00:53:35] Track 1: so, [00:53:36] steve: up now by your, uh, by your HP cassettes now. Yeah. [00:53:43] Track 1: well, so to, you know, to wrap up here, um, what do you see going forward, um, from, and, and very open-ended question, uh, what are you excited about from a technology standpoint? What are you seeing, um, in terms of, uh, you know, innovative business models or distribution models or, uh, just trends in the, in industry more generally. [00:54:10] steve: Well, there's one word that we haven't used so far in this call. You like, [00:54:16] Track 1: Sure. [00:54:17] steve: you know, there's still, there's still some growth there, I think. Um, [00:54:21] Track 1: What do those stats look like right now? [00:54:23] steve: it's not good stats. There aren't any, I don't know. You know, you can just read the T leaves and see that, you know, there's been some discounting and there. Um, even some of the low price brands that were scaring the hell out of everybody a year ago, um, are now blowing out prices, which is not good news, but still, um, kind of suggests that the, uh, the, uh, demand has, has slowed a little bit. [00:54:51] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:54:52] steve: but you know, it's exciting to see, uh, the growth and the cargo bikes, you know, um, you know, I know Specialized finally did their public launch of their globe. The Globe this week. [00:55:02] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:55:03] steve: launched the Ecar bike a month or two ago. I think. there's some others coming around. Turn seems to be kicking ass. Um, And, uh, not to mention rad power. Um, so, you know, that's, that's still exciting. There's still growth potential there. Uh, you know, I don't think you're gonna get to European numbers where, you know, like in the Netherlands where, I don't know, or 70% of the bikes sold, there are e-bikes. Now, you know, we're in the US it's probably 12% or something. I don't know. not gonna get there. I've been saying that for years, but, you know, even if we go from 12% to 18%, that's, uh, a lot of growth. And it's also, um, you know, a high average selling price of these things. You know, [00:55:53] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:55:53] steve: to talk about Kent selling $89, 20, 20 inch wheel bikes to Walmart. But when you're talking about somebody, you know, when you know the low price leader is selling bikes for 1400 bucks, uh, e-bikes. [00:56:07] Track 1: Yeah. [00:56:08] steve: You know, and then, you know, and, and specialized just brought out their, you know, their discounted, affordable e cargo bike, which I think starts at 2,500 bucks or something. It's a big, it's a big difference there. [00:56:20] Track 1: Well, [00:56:22] steve: so, you know, Turin is selling these, you know, these little electric mini band bikes, uh, you know, for three, four or $5,000 regularly then, then another thousand dollars in accessories on top of it. Um, so, uh, not to be too focused on the dollars and cents here, but I am, I am from a business magazine, [00:56:43] Track 1: Sure. Yeah. [00:56:44] steve: um, so yeah, there's exciting and, uh, you know, yeah, there's, there's, it's, it's fun to see the growth in the gravel bikes. and uh, and the activity around that, uh, the way the events are going and the competition is, is really interesting. Um, [00:57:05] Track 1: And the, and the community dynamics in the gravel space too, it seems to have remained a lot more accessible even as you have more elite level events and so on, showing, showing up. You still have, you know, lots of local events and it's a, it's a version of cycling that is, well, it's a very versatile machine and it gets you off the road. Which addresses, uh, the, the thing that comes up in survey after survey as the biggest limiter, uh, for people getting on bikes, which is fear of cars, you know, the safety concerns. [00:57:39] steve: yeah, yeah. And I'm not sure what I think about that. I think it is more accessible than, you know, old school, you know, USA cycling, road racing, um, I guess, uh, but you know, last night, I mean, for me, I don't have a whole lot of interest personally in doing a lot of the events. Maybe a couple a year, but, you know, mostly I, what I like about gravel writing is just being able to go out and explore and. Um, ride by myself or with a, a couple friends, but not necessarily pin a number on. Even if I do pin a number on, it's not really to raise, it's just, uh, you know, an excuse to ride with some people and have some rest areas where I can get free food along the way, [00:58:21] Track 1: Yeah. [00:58:22] steve: of having to fill up my water bottles in a creek somewhere. So, um, but I don't know. I went to a, I went to a big gravel race, um, last spring and. It, it didn't look very accessible to me. You know, I saw a lot of people pulling up in Sprinter vans with a couple, you know, $8,000 bikes on the back bumper and, you know, the carbon wheels and, you know, there was a nice dinner out and it was during Covid, so everybody was eating outside and they had the streets blocked off. We're all sitting out on the tables on the street. And, uh, it was, it was kind of fun. It reminded me of, you know, no racing from back in the day. But, uh, but then, but then, yeah, I'm looking around and I'm seeing a lot of pretty well-healed middle class [00:59:06] Track 1: Yep. [00:59:07] steve: people with nice cars and carbon bikes, with carbon wheels and a whole lot of money invested. And I'm like, I, [00:59:15] Track 1: Well, and [00:59:16] steve: accessibility of this. [00:59:17] Track 1: well, and, and yes, that absolutely exists. And that's a, that's a perfectly fine thing. Um, you know, there's, there's a place for everybody. I, I think what I'm referring to more is, well, one, what you're describing as like going out solo or with some friends and, you know, going out on the road, leaving from your back door and then going out on adventure and like experiencing your area from a different vantage point. Um, there's also kind of along those lines, uh, the bike packing phenomenon, which to some degree is a little bit like the s u V phenomenon, that people are buying bikes that they could go bike packing with, um, but not necessarily doing it, but you, but you see more and more of that people doing an overnight or a couple days or something. [00:59:57] steve: Mm. [00:59:58] Track 1: but then lots of just, uh, at least here in New England, I've been to a few very kind of small, intimate types of events. Maybe you have a, a couple hundred people show up and there's a, a, you know, a, a wood fired, um, uh, pizza oven going and, you know, local, uh, brewery supporting, and it's to support, uh, some local cause and maybe they have a podium. Um, but, but not really. It's like, that's not the point [01:00:26] steve: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I think, uh, the whole, the way the competition goes, um, you know, I don't know how many people are interested in the, and even, uh, from a spectator point of view in the racers, I, I, a few people are, I mean, we [01:00:44] Track 1: It's, it's not, it's not super interesting [01:00:47] steve: right? I mean, I, I'm a nerd. I mean, I'll, I'll, man, I, last week was, I, I was watching Melan, I mean, not Melan. Perry Neese and Toreno Rko, you know, back to back every morning. I mean, I'm a total bike race nerd. I love it. You know, I did used to be the editor of T com, uh, and I couldn't even tell you who the top gravel racers are, you know, in the US and I don't know how many people care. I know, you know, we at outside@beonnews.com and cycling tips.com. We write a bit about that. Betsy Welch is doing a great job, but, I, I don't know how many, you know, I'm, I'm interested in doing gravel events. I'm interested in the gravel equipment. when I hear about an event, I think, oh, that might be nice to go to some year. I'd like to do that and see what it's like to ride in that part of the country on those kind of roads. Uh, but do I want to read, uh, a 2000 word interview with the guy that won the pro race? Uh, maybe not. I dunno. [01:01:55] Track 1: I'm, I'm with you. I think that the, um, the more interesting story is the, the story of your own experience of the events. You know, you go and you do something that is long and maybe has some technical sections, and you are, um, linking up with different groups along the way, unlike, say, a, a cross-country race. Um, so cross-country race, you tend to be, you know, it's a, it's a time trial in which you have some people in the way sometimes, um, and road, [01:02:20] steve: in the way. [01:02:21] Track 1: yeah. and then Ro [01:02:23] steve: usually the one that's in the way of some other people, but yeah. [01:02:26] Track 1: Yeah. Um, that, that was my discipline back in the day. Uh, but with gravel, you have, I mean, uh, I know quite a few people, myself included. At this point. I'm no longer. I no longer do these events to compete, I do it as a way of connecting with folks, like being out on a ride and you end up just, uh, linking up with different groups and having this kind of shared ordeal of slogging up that hill with a group or riding into the wind with another group and, you know, making friends along the way. And those are the types of dynamics that, you know, I have, I haven't done a ton of the, um, you know, the, the big, the big banner events for, you know, gravel series and so on. Uh, but those are the dynamics that I'm seeing at the, again, these more intimate, local types of events that I think when I talk about accessibility, that's, that's where, um, my heart is, you know, things that are much more about bringing people together and, and providing a shared experience, a platform for a shared experience that people, uh, find, um, meaningful and not just a competition. [01:03:28] steve: Yeah. And just from a, you know, from an event point of view, just the practicality of it now. I mean, we're, we're, we're losing paved roads where we can have a race. I mean, even just watching, watching the two races in Europe last week, how, how many of 'em they have to go through these damn traffic circles? I mean, the, the last 10 kilometers are scary now cause there's a, there's a traffic circle every five blocks. [01:03:51] Track 1: Yeah, [01:03:52] steve: uh, all these, you know, the road furniture is just getting worse and worse. And that's been happening in the for years. You know, there's all sorts that had to be canceled just because of all the development and the traffic and road designs make it impossible. The road there anymore. [01:04:08] Track 1: yeah, [01:04:09] steve: mogul Bismark circuit outside of Boulder is just unable now. Because of all the traffic circles [01:04:16] Track 1: yeah. Um, Boulder's a very, boulder's a very particular place. Um, you've been there for how many years now? [01:04:25] steve: Uh, about 15. [01:04:27] Track 1: Yeah, uh, I haven't been going there quite that long, but, um, I did do the whole kind of dirt bag, private tier pro thing at one point. Um, so got to ride at a bunch of different places and obviously for my work, I'm traveling a fair amount and the, um, the number of strong riders you have where you are is pretty outstanding. It's kind of hard to go out on a ride and not cross paths with some past or current national champion or Olympian. Um, and you also have, um, unique in the US is some of the best bike infrastructure anywhere. And that actually to maybe we close up the conversation with, um, you know, you had talked about how. you know, we could say modal share, uh, the share of, uh, trips taken by bike or the number of bikes being sold, um, not just for recreation, but for utility. You know, e-bikes primarily fall into a utility, uh, space with the exception of, you know, some performance mountain bikes and so on. But the, uh, you were saying how Europe has seen far more adoption. Uh, what do you see as the differences between the European and US markets and, you know, the, the things that would have to happen here, uh, to see greater adoption of bicycles as a modality for, you know, not just, uh, enthusiast riders, but recreation and, and, you know, more importantly as a, I

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