Podcast appearances and mentions of robin thurston

Today, I'm joined by an industry visionary who has transformed the way we experience outdoor fitness and media—Robin Thurston, Founder and CEO of Outside Interactive Inc. Robin's journey is nothing short of inspiring. From his early days as a pro cyclist to becoming a trailblazing entrepreneur, he's built game-changing platforms that have redefined the way athletes, adventurers, and outdoor enthusiasts track their performance, connect with their communities, and consume media. In this episode, we dive into his evolution from athlete to innovator, starting with the creation of MapMyRide and MapMyRun, which revolutionized fitness tracking before being acquired by Under Armour. We discuss his leadership lessons, the birth of Outside, and his vision for building a media ecosystem that unites outdoor sports, adventure, and wellness. Through Outside Interactive, Robin has brought together iconic media brands like Outside Magazine, Backpacker, Velo, Pinkbike, Trail Runner, Yoga Journal, Triathlete, and Women's Running, creating a powerhouse platform for athletes and outdoor enthusiasts. Robin also shares insights into the evolving fitness landscape, the role of technology in outdoor experiences, and what's next for Outside Interactive. Whether you're a triathlete, runner, endurance athlete, tech enthusiast, or someone passionate about the outdoors, this episode is packed with inspiration, insights, and forward-thinking ideas. 4:00 Journey from pro cyclist to founder and innovator 7:04 building a team and lessons from sports 9:55 Innovating in tech The birth of Map My Ride and Map My Run 13:14 aquistion and growth: The Under Armor Era 16:14 Transforming Outdoor Media: The birth of Outside 18:57 Creating a media ecosystem: Connecting outdoor activities 22:02 The Future of Outdoor Fitness: Trends & Insights 24:53 The Importance of Wellness I. Outdoor Activities 28:09 Navigating the media landscape: challenges and opportunities 30:57 Celebrating Wins & Learning From Failure 32:53 The Future of outside: Innovations and New direction CONNECT Outside Interactive pn Instagram Marni On The Move Instagram, TikTok, LinkedIn, or YouTube` Marni Salup on Instagram and Playlist on Spotify SUBSCRIBE TO OUR NEWSLETTER Sign up for our monthly newsletter, Do What Moves You, for Marni on the Move updates, exclusive offers, invites to events, and exciting news! SUPPORT THE PODCAST Leave us a five stars and a review on Apple, it's easy, scroll through the episode list on your podcast app, click on five stars, click on leave a review, and share what you love about the conversations you're listening to. Tell your friends the episodes you are listening to on your social. Share a screen shot of the episode in your stories, tag us, we will tag you back! Subscribe, like and comment on our YouTube Channel, MarniOnTheMovePodcast

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Circulation - Flight (Last Night On Earth) 2. Larrosa (AR), Nico Sparvieri, Sack (AR) - Overfall (Sean Harvey Remix) (Golden Wings Music) 3. Gai Barone - Fractals (Extended Mix) (Univack) 4. Sebastien Leger - Gaufrette (Early Morning) 5. Elliot Moriarty - Fly High Little One (Intu Music) 6. Steve Parry, Four Candles - Mysko (Selador) 7. Benja Molina feat. N-TCHBL - Endless Night (Extended Mix) (Univack) 8. Eichenbaum - Transcender (EMPHI Remix) (Balance Music) 9. Juan Deminicis, NUFECTS - Clover (Patch Park Remix) (Mango Alley) 10. Yves Eaux, Azpecialguest - Indigo (Magnitude Recordings) 11. Antrim - Endeavor (Or Two Strangers) 12. Freedo Mosho - Paradise Lost (Maze 28 Reform) (Electronic Groove Records) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Lexicon Avenue & Ross Geldart - Renna Delta (Reprise) (Forensic Records) 2. Michael Bennett - Capertee (Alex O'Rion Remix) (Vapour Recordings) 3. HAFT - Rosewood (Meanwhile Horizons) 4. Mayank - Tranquility (Balkan Connection) 5. Erich LH - Unbound (Balkan Connection South America) 6. Eichenbaum - Transcender (Balance Music) 7. Hobin Rude - Solace in Silence (Vegaz SL Remix) (LuPS Records) 8. Aman Anand, A-Jay (SL) - Random Expander [PURRFECTION] 9. Francisco Manrique - Midnight Memories (Original Mix) (AH Digital) 10. Will DeKeizer - Cracked (Plattenbank) 11. Michael A - Solar Wind (Protagonist Recordings) 12. Gai Barone - Fractals (Univack) 13. Aman Anand - Space Face (Maze 28 Reform) (Mango Alley) 14. Ewan Rill - Running Inside (MNL) 15. Redspace - Silence Becomes You (PURRFECTION) 16. Alex O'Rion - Tunnel (Meanwhile) 17. derderwandert - Childhood (BAU_HAUS) 18. Tomas Garcia - Hoth (Mango Alley) 19. Circulation - Flight (Last Night on Earth) 20. Tomas Briski - Empty Chapter (Solis Records) 21. Sasha, Marsh - Dead Synthy (Anjunadeep) 22. Hernan Cattaneo, Paul Oakenfold - Buenos Aires To London (Extended Mix) (Perfecto Records (Armada Music)) 23. Mercurio, Hernan Cattaneo - Altered Reality (Sudbeat) 24. Ilias Katelanos, ECHO DAFT, Plecta - Infinity Rhythm (Univack) 25. D-Nox, Stereo Underground - Shooting Stars (Extended Version) (Global Underground) 26. Framewerk - Little Bullet (Framewerk Rewerk) (White)

In this episode, Cole sits down with Robin Thurston, CEO and founder of Outside Interactive, to discuss the importance of inspiring people to engage with the outdoors. They explore the cycle of inspiration, activation, and celebration, emphasizing the role of storytelling and user-generated content in motivating outdoor activities. Robin shares insights on the challenges posed by content overload and the evolving landscape of advertising, while also highlighting the need for brands to adapt to change in the outdoor industry. The discussion also touches on the role of social media in promoting outdoor activities, the necessity of original content for storytelling, and the evolving landscape where brands must act as media companies.  Key Takeaways Inspiration is the first step in getting people outdoors. The outdoor industry faces competition from technology and indoor entertainment. Storytelling remains vital, but the quality of content is declining due to AI. Change is constant, and adaptability is key in the outdoor industry. Authenticity in storytelling will attract audiences in a content-saturated world The outdoor industry must support each other to grow. If you like what you're hearing, feel free to leave us a review on Apple or Spotify. It helps more people like you find the show. Let's help everyone learn together. This podcast is produced by Port Side Productions. We craft effective, emotionally-powered videos for outdoor brands.   Enjoy this episode and discover other resources below: Booklist | Here's our curated list of recommended books over the years. LinkedIn | Join the conversation and share ideas with other industry peers. Apple Podcast | Want to help us out? Leave us a review on Apple. Guest List | Have a Guest in Mind?  Share them with us here. Find Out Why | Curious why a video production company would produce a marketing podcast?  

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Fourthstate - Wondershot (Framewerk Reprise) (Late Night Music) 2. Michael A - Exopark (Genesis Music) 3. Robin Thurston - Neverending (Dmitry Molosh Remix) (Particles) 4. Patch Park - Control (Meanwhile) 5. Menkee, STEREO MUNK, Dublew - Movement (Redspace Extended Remix) (Univack) 6. Guy J - Silver Lake (Early Morning) 7. Nila - Mountain Air (Vapour Recordings) 8. Rockka - Maximizer (Mango Alley) 9. Gai Barone, Berni Turletti - Vibrations of Matter (Plaisirs Sonores Records) 10. Jody Barr - Cordoba (Sudbeat Music) 11. Jon Towell - Doesn't Make Any Sense (Keep Thinking) 12. Hammer, Bicep - CHROMA 007 STEALL (Ninja Tune) Part 2 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Stani Stern - Sternenhimmel (Freedo Mosho & Sound Fusion Remix) (AH Digital) 2. Federico Epis - Numa (Pole Folder Remix) (Reworck) 3. Menkee, STEREO MUNK, Dublew - Movement (Redspace Extended Remix) (Univack) 4. Rockka - Spinner (Nikola Jovanovic Remix) (COMET Records) 5. DJ Zombi - Harmonized (Dmitry Molosh Remix) (RKP) 6. Benja Molina - Mauna Loa (Extended Mix) (UV) 7. Robin Thurston - Neverending (Dmitry Molosh Remix) (Particles) 8. Cendryma - Fracture (Extended Mix) (UV) 9. Cendryma - Evasive (Extended Mix) (UV) 10. Jamie Stevens, Zankee Gulati - Low Tide (Ezequiel Arias Remix) (Bedrock Records) 11. Agustin Pengov - Siniestro (Weird Sounding Dude Remix) (Transensations Records)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Roy Rosenfeld - Forgotten (Extended) (Early Morning) 2. Paul Deep (AR) - Lilac (Extended Mix) (Clubsonica Records) 3. Stan Seba - Infinite Horizon (Around Us Remix) (ARRVL Records) 4. JUAN BUITRAGO - Anja (Juicebox Music) 5. Lanvary - Tender (Matias Chilano Remix) (Proton Music) 6. Forty Cats - Rotate (NO̶I̶Y̶S̶E PROJECT Remix) (PURRFECTION) 7. Zehv - Aliens Are in the Cornfield (PURRFECTION) 8. NOIYSE PROJECT & Bachir Salloum - Vivid Imagination (Tantum Remix) (Mango Alley) 9. Lanvary - Cercanias (Alex O'Rion Remix) (Proton Music) 10. Jamie Stevens, Kasey Taylor - Round Around (Patch Park Remix) (District Rec) 11. Robin Thurston - Piedras Oscuras (Particles) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Freedo Mosho, Futura City - Lost Art (Mango Alley) 2. GMJ, Matter - Nomadica (Sudbeat) 3. Alex O'Rion, Matter - Moksha (Extended Mix) (Meanwhile) 4. Roy Rosenfeld - Forgotten (Extended) (Early Morning) 5. Pasca - Moshic - I Can Feel That (Moshic Remix) (White) 6. Moshic - Love Made Me Do It (Guy J Remix) (Bedrock) 7. Nicholas Van Orton - Keep T [Balkan Connection South America) 8. Pornbugs - Walk Across the Bridge (Sudbeat) 9. Steve Parry - Turn Up The Juice (Panthera Krause Remix) (Selador) 10. Issac - Youth (Last Night on Earth) 11. Matty Wright - Hastings Pier (Capital Heaven) 12. Jamie Stevens - With You (Jamie's Soundtrack Mix) (Music To Die For)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) - 0-2h56: 1. Kostik Makso - Where Did You Go (Intro Mix) (Capital Heaven) 2. GMJ - Tough Restraint (Meanwhile) 3. Cloaked - Always Been (Mango Alley) 4. Zankee Gulati - Mind Opener (Meanwhile) 5. Hyunji-A - Camino Torcido (Sudbeat Music) 6. Kasey Taylor & Amega - Impressions (GMJ & Matter Remix) (Vapour Recordings) 7. Tomas Garcia - Cefeo (Genesis Music) 8. Tiefstone & Ric Niels - Mannheim (Proportion) 9. Hot TuneiK & Amber Long - Enn (Stereo Underground Remix) (Mango Alley) 10. Matt Oliver - Finished Work (Freedo Mosho & Futura City Club Rework) (Balkan Connection) 11. Michael A - Missing Control (Genesis Music) 12. Hobin Rude - Waking Illusion (Protagonist Recordings) 13. Cendryma - Revelum (Mind of Us Remix) (Deep Down Music) 14. Martin Di Sciascio - Stoned [PURRFECTION] 15. Joel Lokk - Climate Control (Mango Alley) 16. Quivver - Infinity (Controlled Substance) 17. Luis Damora & Nila - Lose Kontrol (Balance Music) 18. Guy J - Million Years from Now (Early Morning) 19. D-Nox, Beckers & Gai Barone - Acid (Sprout) 20. Cloaked - Always Been (Ziger Remix) (Mango Alley) 21. Yoni Yarchi & Sonicvibe - Krypton Dawn (Univack) 22. Max Graham & Second Sine - Hypercube (Ruben Karapetyan Remix) (Mango Alley) 23. Savrun Brothers - Phantasm (Matias Chilano Remix) (Movement Recordings) 24. Nicholas Van Orton - Kawa (Balkan Connection South America) 25. Brian De Santis - Dreaming on the Trip (AH Digital) 26. Sasha & Jody Barr - Phaxon (Extended) (Last Night on Earth) 27. Brian De Santis - Dynamo (AH Digital) 28. Castle Trancelott, Patrick Prins - Indoctrinate (The Element MT & Patrick Prins Remix) (Maelstrom Records) 29. D-Nox, Stereo Underground - Gruuve (Desert Hearts Black) 30. John Monkman - Khord (Extended Mix) (Anjunadeep) 31. Vaim - Storm (Capital Heaven) 32. Framewerk - Perception (Framewerk Breaks Edit) (White) Part 2 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) - 2h56- END: 1. Digital Mess - Moonbeam (Higher States) 2. Agustin Pengov, Noise Generation - Sritina (Univack) 3. Will DeKeizer - Moon Spirit (NOIYSE PROJECT Remix) (onedotsixtwo) 4. Cloaked - Hornbeam (Seyah Remix) (Mango Alley) 5. Will DeKeizer - 2000 B.C. (Roger Martinez Remix) (onedotsixtwo) 6. Mike Rish - Rise (Edge) 7. Patch Park - Don't Stop (Guy J Remix) (District Rec) 8. Nick Warren - The Covern (The Soundgarden) 9. Tomas Pablo - Rushing Back (Kris Dur Remix) (Magnitude Recordings) 10. Gai Barone - Sheen & Crock (Solee Remix) (Future Romance) 11. Essco - Intuition (Strictly Essco)

Robin Thurston, CEO of Outside, joins Second Nature for a discussion about the focus on supporting the entire ecosystem and experience for every user on the platform. We dig into what it means to build the vision of Outside and how that translates in a meaningful way (and how difficult it can be to achieve).    Show Notes: Outside: https://www.outsideinc.com/   Outside Online: https://www.outsideonline.com/home Trailforks: https://www.trailforks.com/ Gaia GPS: https://www.gaiagps.com/ Map My Fitness: https://www.mapmyfitness.com/us/ Alex Hutchinson "Endure" (Book): https://amzn.to/4fH9M4y Outside Festival: https://festival.outsideonline.com/ Groundswell Experiential Agency: https://groundswellxm.com/ Superfly: https://superf.ly/   Join us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/second-nature-media Meet us on Slack: https://www.launchpass.com/second-nature Follow us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/secondnature.media Subscribe to our newsletter: https://www.secondnature.media Subscribe to the YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@secondnaturemedia

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix): 1. Hernan Cattaneo - Tranquilo (Franco Giannoni Remix) (Plattenbank) 2. Cendryma - Pass Through (Weird Sounding Dude Remix) (PURRFECTION) 3. Mind Of Us - Far From Here (Lowbit Deep) 4. Around Us - Try This (Francesco Pico Remix) (Manual Music) 5. Taylan - Mataora (Balkan Connection) 6. Zankee Gulati - Mind Opener (Meanwhile) 7. Marc Denuit - Just Say You Want Me (Lila Rose UY Remix) (Oxytocin Records) 8. Rick Pier O'Neil - Photon Surge (Extended Mix) (Univack) 9. Ruben Karapetyan - Midnight Express (Plattenbank) 10. Downgrooves - Discovery (Robin Thurston Remix) (Arbor Recordings) 11. Cendryma - Revelum (Mind of Us Remix) (Deep Down Music) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. BAILE - Severed (courserecords) 2. Dmitry Molosh - Only U (Visceral) 3. Rinzen - Temple (Chapter 24 Records) 4. Guy Mantzur - Chasing The Fog (Lost & Found) 5. SOSANDLOW - Agbaye (Plattenbank) 6. Depaart - Blowing Smoke (A Friend Of Marcus Remix) (Last Night On Earth) 7. Solee - Saga (Parquet Recordings) 8. EarthLife - Timeless To Mountain (Dear Deer) 9. Donatello - Tears (Transpecta) 10. Dmitry Molosh - Sacra (Replug) 11. Ziger - It's Not Funny (Quivver Edit) (Controlled Substance)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Andy Green (Resident Mix): 0 - 2h20 1. Framewerk - Forge (Framewerk Poolside Rewerk) (White) 2. Meeting Molly & The Wash - Macrocosm (Futura City 'Perpetual Dusk' Rework) (Mango Alley) 3. Jelly For The Babies - The Day I First Saw You (Guateque Music) 4. Federico Barga - Oxygen (Ewan Rill Remix) (PURRFECTION) 5. Rich Curtis & Dowden - A Different World (Juan Deminicis Remix) (Mango Alley) 6. Ezequiel Perini - Destroy (Balkan Connection South America) 7. Mind Of Us - Silent Tears (Lowbit Deep) 8. Rauschhaus & The Wash - Attention Whore (Paul Thomas Remix) (Mango Alley) 9. Namatjira - Aquatilia (Plattenbank) 10. Michael A - Reason (Alto Astral Club Mix) (AH Digital) 11. Fran Garay - Mind Behind the Ordeal (Nicholas Van Orton Remix) (Balkan Connection South America) 12. Michael A - Moondust (Protagonist Recordings) 13. Steve Parry - Won't You Believe? (Selador) 14. Kebin Van Reeken, Topo Larocca, Undermove - Time (Univack) 15. Simos Tagias - Strange to Ourselves (Vapour Recordings) 16. Mike Rish - Cloudbreaker (Meanwhile) 17. Luis Damora & Dave Walker - Callisto (Univack) 18. Simos Tagias - Magia (Vapour Recordings) 19. Zuccasam - Just Dance (Gai Barone Remix) (Nightcolours) 20. Sasha - How To Wear Raybans Well (Last Night on Earth) 21. Meeting Molly & The Wash - Macrocosm (Luca Abayan Remix) (Mango Alley) 22. Yuvèe - Psychopath (Plattenbank) 23. Christian Smith - Flyertalk (Christian Smith 2024 Rework) (Bedrock Records) 24. Bedrock - Emerald (Henry Saiz Remix) (Bedrock Records) 25. Sasha, Because of Art - Fused (Last Night on Earth) 26. Trance Wax - Trance 12 (White) 27. Trance Wax - Trance 16 (White) Part 2 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix): 2h21 - End 1. Mind at Large - Dirty Glitch (Cho-ku-reï Records) 2. Ruben Karapetyan - Parisian Vibe (Molac Extended Mix) (Clubsonica Records) 3. Kabi (AR) - Misti (Balance Music) 4. Max Graham & Second Sine - Hypercube (The Wash & Rauschhaus Remix) (Mango Alley) 5. Mike Rish - Gröv (Meanwhile) 6. Mind Of Us - Atalaya (Kasey Taylor & Karl Pilbrow Remix) (onedotsixtwo) 7. Navar - All Around Us (Extended Mix) (Meanwhile) 8. Tripswitch - Node Module (Gai Barone Remix) (onedotsixtwo) 9. Sonicvibe, Yoni Yarchi - Krypton Dawn (Univack) 10. Tonaco - Holosteric (Meanwhile) 11. Benja Molina - Acid Sun (PURRFECTION) 12. Gowzer - Northern Lights (Tradeston Records)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Dave Leck - Inside Out (Emergent Properties) 2. Sistersweet - Echoes of Sirens (Higher States) 3. Beije - Lumina (Proton Music) 4. Forty Cats - Memories (Balance Music) 5. Essco - Jah (Forty Cats Remix) (Pro B Tech Music) 6. Neuralis - Floating Free (YOMO Records) 7. Rauschhaus & The Wash - Trainwreck (Supacooks Remix) (Mango Alley) 8. Mike Griego - Placebo (Meanwhile) 9. Mortinaré - Somewhere (Gai Barone & Luke Brancaccio Remix) (Particles) 10. Alex O'Rion - Spectrum (Solis Records) 11. Ruben Karapetyan - Midnight Express (Plattenbank) 12. Maze 28 - Red Lights From Afar (RKP) 13. Christian Smith - Flyertalk (Christian Smith 2024 Rework) (Bedrock Records) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Meeting Molly - Unison (Intro Mix) (Mango Alley) 2. Alto Astral - Tunnel Light (Movement Recordings) 3. Lopezhouse feat. Angela - Crosses and Angels (Guy Mantzur Remix) (Moments) 4. Aman Anand - Sunset in Kabini (Forty Cats Remix) (Purrfection) 5. Talal - Stories (Blaufield Music) 6. Meeting Molly - Arabesca (Jelly For The Babies Remix) (Mango Alley) 7. Michael A - Neon Pulse (Genesis Music) 8. Paul Deep (AR) - Odyssey (Dmitry Molosh Remix) (Proton Music) 9. Tomas Garcia - The Beginning (Proportion) 10. Frankey & Sandrino - Blue Flash (Innervisions) 11. Nacjus - Turbulence (AH Digital) 12. Satoshi Tomiie - Love In Traffic (Sistersweet Unofficial) (White) 13. Tomas Garcia - Outstanding (Genesis Music) 14. Because of Art - Transient (Extended) (Last Night On Earth) 15. Kamilo Sanclemente - Anagram (Univack) 16. Quivver - All I Wanna (Extended Mix) (Anjunadeep) 17. F-act - Solar Energy (Extended Mix) (The Soundgarden) 18. GMJ & Matter - Ascending Sun (Orsen Remix) (Proton Music) 19. Ruben Karapetyan - To North Avenue (Plattenbank) 20. Emiliano Ferrareso - Celestial Vault (Balkan Connection South America) 21. Mile Griego - Placebo (Meanwhile) 22. Framewerk - Apollo Vibes (Capital Heaven) 23. Kasey Taylor & Karl Pilbrow - Sonorous (Vapour Recordings) 24. Christian Hornbostel - Vela (Bedrock Records) 25. Martin Di Sciascio - Redemption (AH Digital) 26. Hernán Cattáneo & Mercurio - Quick Kick (DAR) 27. Petar Dundov - Experanto (Pole Folder & Federico Epis Remix) (Reworck) 28. Rich Venom - Freefall (Barbur Music) 29. Josh Wink - Progression (Ambient Mix) (Ovum Recordings)

Robin Thurston - Lost In The Moment(Luciano Scheffer Mix) * Played by Hernan Cattaneo by

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Harry Diamond, ChangedFaces - Exodus (John Cosani Remix) (Sudbeat Music) 2. Sasha & Super Flu - Astra (Sasha's Daydream Mix) (Last Night On Earth) 3. Dowden - Dryad (Auditoria Remix) (Solis Records) 4. Kenan Savrun - Metanoia (Univack) 5. Gai Barone feat. Giancly Nativo - Via Fermi (Braxton Remix) (Music To Die For) 6. Sonicvibe & Yoni Yarchi - Anticipation (Melody Of the Soul) 7. Ruben Karapetyan & Maze 28 - Cosmic Dot (Cid Inc. Remix) (Mango Alley) 8. ADIN - Flame (Manual Music) 9. Mind Of Us - Ghosts In The Mist (Prognosis) 10. Richie Blacker, James Shinra - Rapture (Last Night on Earth) 11. Framewerk - What I Never Knew (Framewerk Breaks Edit) (White) 12. Framewerk - Not Over Yet (Framewerk '23 Rewerk) (White) Part 2 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Wassu - Ona (The Soundgarden) 2. Weird Sounding Dude - Slider (Edge) 3. Kris Dur - Match (Univack) 4. Anton Make - Catollopa (Mango Alley) 5. Alan Cerra - Drive (YOMO Records) 6. Kostya Outta & Kamilo Sanclemente - Starlight (Callecat Remix) (Mango Alley) 7. Mike Griego - Deaf (Kostya Outta Remix) (Flown Records) 8. Christian Hornbostel - Andromeda (Bedrock Records) 9. Art of Trance - Mariana (Torsten Fassbender Remix) (Platipus) 10. Sasha & Sentre - Glastacy (Extended) (Last Night on Earth) 11. Mike Griego - Back In Trance (A Line In The Sand) 12. Richie Blacker & James Shinra - Rapture (Extended) (Last Night On Earth)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Hideo Kobayashi & Alistair - Espiritualidade (Scott Andrews Remix) (Electronic Groove Records) 2. Four Candles - Hidden Beauty (Tenampa Recordings) 3. Sam Scheme - Gravity (Keep Thinking) 4. Allex - Empyrean Sun (Univack) 5. Liam Sieker & Edu Schwartz - Sun Spirit (Deep Mix) (RKP) 6. Simon Vuarambon & Tantum - Zenith (Bedrock Records) 7. Kenan Savrun - Malachite (Univack) 8. STEREO MUNK, Dublew, Eichenbaum - Dorma (Plattenbank) 9. Allex, Tompy - Dreamcaster (Univack) 10. Circulation - Mistinguette (Particles) 11. Forty Cats - Ground (The Wash Remix) (PURRFECTION) 12. JodaCode feat. Skyline Tigers - Tapestry of Life (Arbor Recordings) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Chicola - Dust Coins (Balance) 2. Hot Oasis, Husa & Zeyada - Fakr (GMJ & Matter Extended Remix) (The Soundgarden) 3. Frankie Vertigo - Almost Heaven (Gai Barone Extended Remix) (My Secret Agenda) 4. MUUI - Outside Your Body (Proportion) 5. GMJ & Jiminy Hop - Caladan (Meanwhile) 6. Mariano Mellino - Ringaro (Extended Version) (Global Underground) 7. Matter - Elsewhere (Meanwhile) 8. Rocio Portillo - Vivere (Maze 28 Remix) (Mango Alley) 9. Allan McLoud - Reality Shift (Movement Recordings) 10. Mind Of Us - Time (Univack)

Outside Festival is a first-year event in Denver aimed at bringing the outdoor industry, the consumers, the brands and the athletes together. I'm hearing this called the intersection of SBSW and CES for the outdoor industry. Outside has swung for the fences a lot over the years, and I travel to Colorado to see if the event lives up to the massive expectations. Along the way, I connect with Pat Milbery, Colter Hinchliffe, Shaun White, Robin Thurston, Jess Kimura, Julian Carr, Luis Benitez, Conrad Anker, and many more. It's behind the scenes look at the first great Outside Festival. Outside Festival Show Notes: 3:00: Day 1 Intro 6:30: Robin Thurston   10:00: Jess Kimura 14:00: Day 2 intro 15:00: Pat Milbery 17:00: Colter Hinchliffe 19:00:   Liquid Force: Since 95, Liquid Force has outperformed the competition and turned a sport into a lifestyle. Use the code POWELL15 for 15% off LF orders at LiquidForce.com Stanley:  The leader in keeping things hot and cold Best Day Brewing:  All of the flavor of your favorite IPA or Kolsch, without the alcohol, the calories and sugar. 23:00: Shaun White 27:00: Conrad Anker 30:00: Caroline Gleich 34:00: Amie Engerbretson 37:00: Luis Benitez  41:00: Peter Glenn Ski and Sports:  Over 60 years of getting you out there.   Elan Skis:  Over 75 years of innovation that makes you better. Outdoor Research: The best test in the Pacific Northwest 45:00: Greg Stump 48:00: Julian Carr 50:00: Mike Arzt 53:00: Conor Hall 56:00: Robin Thurston 59:00: Chris Jerard   Photo art: Outside Festival Newsroom

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Recondite - Corvid (Mule Musiq) 2. Derek Howell - On Swift Wings (Battage Remix) (Particles) 3. Baunder - Neptunia (Sunday Morning Mix) (Sudbeat Music) 4. Funkstate - Osmosis (Luke Porter Remix) (Temporum Music) 5. Stas Drive - Dune (E Sound Records) 6. Michael A - Milk&tea (Clinique Recordings) 7. Erreome - Changes (Crossfade Sounds) 8. Dave Seaman, One Million Toys - Everything Comes In Threes (D-Nox & Beckers Remix) (Tulipa Recordings) 9. Gabriel Ananda & Maceo Plex - Solitary Daze (Ellum) 10. Ilya Gerus - The Empyrean (Biologik Remix) (Balkan Connection) 11. We Need Cracks - Signals (Traum) Part 2 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Spencer Brown - Papi's Cenote (Jamie Stevens Acid Sunset Mix) (diviine) 2. Andre Moret - Continuous Mist Walk (For Senses Records) 3. Noise Generation - Samadhi (Luciano Pelliza Remix) (Lohit Deep) 4. Fordal - Alleviate (Luis Damora Remix) (Forensic Records) 5. Benja Molina - Shalom (Univack) 6. Kris Dur - Eleven (Extended Mix) (The Soundgarden) 7. Juan Bentkovsky - Tiempo De Volar (One Of A Kind) 8. Dmitry Molosh - Plant Growth (Proportion) 9. Benja Molina - Denali (Univack) 10. Tantum - Geschwindigkeitslauf (Sirup Music) 11. Namatjira - Dark Chocolate (Wizarding Wolf) 12. Robin Thurston - Constellation (Emergent Properties)

Robin Thurston has done it all. When he was 12 years old, he was training in Colorado to become a professional cyclist. He made that dream come true. He didn't stop there. Robin was Co-Founder of MapMyFitness which was sold to Under Armour, where he became Chief Digital Officer for 3 years. He served as CEO at Helix, a genomics company. Robin is Founder and CEO of Outside Interactive Inc. - the 38 brand conglomerate designed to inspire and activate us into the outdoors. You've likely seen their magazine which has a mega following. Robin discusses the importance of suffering in life, his proudest accomplishments, how to build the right team, what selling a company does to your personal life, and what he's most excited about in the future. Please enjoy and let me know what you think! Feedback & Sponsorship Opportunities: andrew@permissiontoshine.org**This episode is brought to you by REViVE Marketing Partners. If you are an entrepreneur looking to scale your business on Amazon, REViVE is the partner for you. After their Founder started, scaled and sold his own business after growing 4.5x on Amazon in 3 months he realized he had a formula. Their agency is partnering with brands to bring them growth they've dreamt of. REViVE took a company from $400 revenue/month to $90,000/month within 30 days. To see if you're a fit for their partnerships, view more case studies, and understand their deeply rooted values go to: revivemarketingpartners.com **@PermissionToShine_

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Lonya - Listopad (Sudbeat Music) 2. Poli-Poli, Boris Louit - Fleeting Phenomenon (Electronic Groove Records) 3. Bruno Andrada - Modern Aparat (Extended Mix) (The Soundgarden) 4. The Wash - Voyage (Forty Cats Remix) (Mango Alley) 5. Digital Mess - Taste Of Freedom (Univack) 6. ELECGROUND - Replicant (Magnitude Recordings) 7. Gaspar Aguilera - Sol & Luna (Droid9) 8. Subandrio - Nights in Twilo (Vapour Recordings) 9. Subandrio - St. Kilda (Vapour Recordings) 10. Kostya Outta - Storm Shine (Transensations Records) 11. Luciano Scheffer - J's Odyssey (Dhany G & Leo Perez Remix) (La Cura de la Semana) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. C-Jay - Adem Part 7 (Replug) 2. Covsky - Colour Theory (Meanwhile Horizons) 3. Jiminy Hop - Nawaro (GMJ Remix) (Shambhala Music) 4. Hyunji-A - Speck of Dust (Sudbeat) 5. VegaZ SL & Enzo Vood - Focus to See the Light (Lowbit Deep) 6. Tantum - Contact High (Meanwhile) 7. The Wash - Voyage (Forty Cats Remix) (Mango Alley) 8. Nick Varon & Callecat - Beyond Perceptions (Manual Music) 9. Michael A & Seyah - Velocity (Genesis Music) 10. Paul Angelo & Don Argento - Fountain of Youth (Subandrio Remix) (Soundteller Records) 11. Jelly For The Babies, Phonic Youth & Gav Easby- Back to You (Dmitry Molosh Remix) (inU) 12. Circulation - Swank (Hobin Rude Remix) (Mango Alley) 13. Alan Cerra - Blackout (Mind Of Us Remix) (Onedotsixtwo) 14. Juan Sapia & Eric Lune - Tension Release (Proportion) 15. Dmitry Molosh - Sail (Replug) 16. Jamie Stevens & Kasey Taylor - Verlaine (Balance Music) 17. Neuralis - Cross Stimulation (Univack) 18. Kamilo Sanclemente & Mauro Aguirre - Essence (Balance Music) 19. Quivver & Dave Seaman - Make This Disappear (Balance Music) 20. Christian Smith - Our Destiny (Truesoul) 21. El Mundo, Zazou - Like Forever (Hernan Cattaneo & Kevin Di Serna Remix) (House Music With Love) 22. Quivver - Dovetail (SHÈN Recordings) 23. Lucho Bragagnolo - Purize (AH Digital) 24. Framewerk - Unfinished Sympathy (Framewerk 4X4 Rewerk) (White) 25. Steven Weston & Braxton - Splendor (Extended Mix) (Bedrock Records)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Juliane Wolf - Far Away (Kenan Savrun Remix) (Manual Music) 2. Dave Leck - Opal (Erdi Irmak Remix) (Particles) 3. Erich LH, Valen Gonzalez - On Board (AH Digital) 4. Ev Rymd - Mirage (BC2) 5. Hideo Kobayashi, Alistair - Espiritualidade (Weird Sounding Dude & FM Dub) (Electronic Groove Records) 6. LOPA - Trimurti (Arbey Gonzalez Remix) (Arcedian) 7. George Alhabel - Solace (MNL) 8. Daniel Curotto - Mediterraneo (Gai Barone Remix) (Golden Wings Music) 9. Alan Cerra - Blackout (Mind Of Us Remix) (onedotsixtwo) 10. Poli-Poli - Connection (Robin Thurston Remix) (BC2) 11. Daniel Curotto - Mediterraneo (East Cafe Balearic Remix) (Golden Wings Music) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Meeting Molly & Maze 28 - Oceans in Between (Maze 28 Pres. Futura City Rework) (Mango Alley) 2. Meeting Molly & Maze 28 - Oceans in Between (GMJ & Matter Remix) (Mango Alley) 3. Mike Griego - Trash Can (A Line In The Sand) 4. Chaum & Hobin Rude - Cressida (Tonaco Remix) (Juicebox Music) 5. EANP & Juan Deminicis - The Other Side (Meanwhile) 6. Michael A - Impact (Genesis Music) 7. Disfunktion - Lumina (Steyoyoke) 8. Tiefstone & Ric Niels - Abby (Sudbeat Music) 9. d-phrag & Ev Rymd - Obsession (YOMO Records) 10. Dmitry Molosh - Station (Dimuth K Remix) (Proton Music) 11. Miliano - Agent 007 (Lio Q Remix) (Univack) 12. Eze Colombo, Sheism - Unico (Robert Mason Remix) (Mirablis) 13. Around Us - Invisible Time (Eichenbaum Remix) (Mango Alley) 14. Luke Chable & Ivan Gough - Orange Theme (Jamie Stevens Remix) (UV Noir) 15. Stiven Rivic & Michael & Levan - Never (Noel Sanger Remix)(Kunai Records) 16. Darren Emerson, John Digweed & Nick Muir - Fanfare (Alberto Blanco Unofficial Remix) (White) 17. Ian O'Donovan - Frontier (Bedrock) 18. FACTORe & Framewerk - Leave Me in the Ocean (Framewerk Extended Remix) (Fluentia Music)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Framewerk - Rumblefish (Framewerk Intro Mix) (White) 2. Pachanga Boys - Time (Alberto Blanco 'Lost In Time' Dub Edit) (White) 3. Mike Isai - Tunnel (Sudbeat Music) 4. Cary Crank - Abyss (Extended Mix) (Lowbit Deep) 5. Hrag Mikkel - Cosmic Bliss (Mayro Remix) (Proton) 6. Dmitry Molosh - Insomnia (Protagonist Recordings) 7. Jamie Stevens & Ivan Aliaga - Traveller 98 (Solis Records) 8. Mike Rish - Enter (EMPHI Remix) (Juicebox Music) 9. Kris Dur - Eleven (Extended Mix) (The Soundgarden) 10. GMJ & Matter - Helioflow (Balance) 11. Michael A - Metalic (Genesis Music) 12. Not Dead Yet - Question or Doubt (Balkan Connection) 13. Maze 28 - Reflex (Mango Alley) 14. Bondarev - Meteora (Jiminy Hop Remix) (WARPP) 15. Paul (AR) - Hypnotic (Dave Walker Remix) (Forensic Records) 16. Kasper Koman - Sinking Sky (Meanwhile) 17. Scippo - In Fog (Julieta Kühnle Remix) (Strange Town Recordings) 18. Serious Dancers - In The Beginning (Hernan Cattaneo & Simply City Remix) (Univack) 19. Dofamine - Cachalot (Shambhala Music) 20. Luciano Elvira - Law of Gravity (Paul Deep Remix) (Stripped Digital) 21. Simos Tagias - Katla (Alex O'Rion Remix) (Movement Recordings) 22. Der Dritte Raum - Hale Bopp (Maceo Plex Edit) (Harthouse) 23. Noise Generation & Javier Román - Revolution (Ziger Remix (Eat My Hat Music) 24. Jeremy Olander - Noreaga (Vivrant) 25. Inger - Mumbling King (Capital Heaven) Part 2 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Tantum - Left Behind (Sirup Music) 2. GMJ & Matter - Skyline Depth (Balance Music) 3. Kris Dur - Earthquake (The Soundgarden) 4. Drekaan - The Bi-Polar Bear on Digital Detox (Consapevole Recordings) 5. Zuccasam - 2 Nobody (Re Sound Music) 6. Rodrigo Pochelu & Chär Spinelli - Redemption (J.P. Velardi) (LAIKA Sounds) 7. FJL - No Return (Higher States) 8. Brian De Santis - Dassein (AH Digital) 9. VIIIA, O-Nami - Trascender (Leandro Jaime Remix) (Arcedian) 10. Gai Barone - Fahrrad (Remix) (Patternized Recordings) 11. Maze 28 - Eureka (Mango Alley)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Meeting Molly - Double Tree (Greenage Remix) (Mango Alley) 2. Meeting Molly - Last Generation (Higher States) 3. Namatjira - Cital (Extended Mix) (The Soundgarden) 4. Hector Cortes, Hassan Maroofi & Jaime Garza - Shine the Light (Munz (AR) Remix) (One Of A Kind) 5. Cosmonaut, K Loveski - Shibuya (Gux Jimenez Remix) (Univack) 6. Paul (AR) - Hypnotic (Dave Walker Remix) [Forensic Records] 7. TEELCO - Into the Light (Diego R Remix) (RKP) 8. Ias Ferndale & Aurel den Bossa - Follow Me (Juan Deminicis Remix) (Univack) 9. Evegrem & Leandro Murua - Spectral Rhythm (Sunexplosion) 10. Ariel Stamile - Gotic (AH Digital) 11. Rockka - Decryptor (Mango Alley) 12. Kay-D - Over the Óperencia (Sergey Muzarks Remix) (Massive Harmony Records) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Nolan, Markus Saarländer - Flames (Framewerk Intro Mix) (Capital Heaven) 2. Motip White - Clean the Turbines (Meera Remix) (When We Dip XYZ) 3. Dmitry Molosh - Prospect (Sudbeat Music) 4. GMJ & Matter - Stellaris (Meanwhile) 5. Taylan - Joyride (Matias Chilano Remix) (Movement Recordings) 6. Kasey Taylor & Karl Pilbrow - Sublimate (Sudbeat Music) 7. Simply City - The Ripple Effect (Sudbeat Music) 8. Dmitry Molosh - Plant Growth (Proportion) 9. Maze 28 - Pulverizer (Subandrio Remix) (Mango Alley) 10. Moshic - Love Made Me Do It (Bedrock Records) 11. Jody Barr - Eleanor (Extended Mix) (Anjunadeep)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Brann (AR) - Endless Moments (Paul Deep Remix) (Particles) 2. Kostya Outta - Space (Mike Griego Remix) (Replug) 3. Oniris - Isla (Bedrock Records) 4. Hernan Cattaneo & Mercurio - San Francisco (Sudbeat) 5. John Digweed, Nick Muir, Franky Wah - Tripchain (Bedrock Records) 6. Ian O'Donovan - Empyrean Eclipse (Sudbeat) 7. Hunter/Game & U S H N U - Reload (Kompakt Extra) 8. Rodriguez Jr. - Alraegadir (Bedrock Records) 9. Marsh - Elation (Last Night On Earth) 10. Tinlicker - Starchaser (Extended Version) (Global Underground) 11. Framewerk - A Magical Trip (Capital Heaven) 12. Framewerk - Yeke Yeke (Framewerk Rewerk) (White) Part 2 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Around Us - Deep Sense (ARRVL Records) 2. Juliane Wolf & Callecat - Journey Of Species (Manual Music) 3. Luis Damora - Sounds Rising (Kostya Outta Remix) (Forensic Records) 4. Kasey Taylor & Karl Pilbrow - Wanderlust (Sudbeat Music) 5. Jamie Stevens & Zankee Gulati - Low Tide (Bedrock Records) 6. Kasey Taylor & Karl Pilbrow - Sublimate (Sudbeat Music) 7. Nila - From Darkness To The Light (Univack) 8. Taylan - Joyride (Matias Chilano Remix) (Movement Recordings) 9. Digital Mess - Strange Rain (Cathy K Remix) (SLC-6 Music) 10. Land Mammal UK - Dimension 80 (Robin Thurston Remix) (Arbor Recordings) 11. Ariel Stamile - The Storm (AH Digital) 12. Pink Floyd - Shine On You Crazy Diamond (Stereo Underground Remake) (White)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix): a re-record of the first hour of Robin's set earlier in the month for USUAL SUNDAYs at Gustave London. 1. Eko Centrik - Inside (Balance Music) 2. Alex O'Rion - Horizon (Solis Records) 3. Hernan Martinez (AR) - Space (BC2) 4. Taleman - Habitat (Extended Mix) (SkyTop) 5. Taleman - MelodyT (Extended Mix) (SkyTop) 6. Hermanez - A Kind of Tree (Mooizo) 7. Haft, Bodaishin & Lupe Republic - Vagalume (Circle of Life) 8. Robin Thurston - Sausalito Sunset (Particles) 9. Steve Fokas - Drifter's Theory (Hot TuneiK Remix) (Guateque Music) 10. Matias Delongaro - Time (AH Digital) 11. Florian Gasperini - Viaje A Pakistan (Ilias Katelanos & Plecta Extended Remix) (Univack) 12. Alex O'Rion - Cuba Libre (Solis Records) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Framewerk - Mercury And Solace (Framewerk Intro Rewerk) (White) 2. Meeting Molly - Calendar Mark (Mango Alley) 3. Alex O'Rion - Horizon (Solis Records) 4. GMJ & Matter - Nassaukade (Sudbeat) 5. Dimuth K & Sajay - Dharma Bums (Meanwhile Horizons) 6. Amir Telem & Mango - Pyarelal (Paul Hamilton Remix) (Mango Alley) 7. Hobin Rude - Underwater Tears (Sunexplosion) 8. Jiminy Hop - Levera (GMJ & Matter Remix) (Meanwhile) 9. Dmitry Molosh - Glide (Late Night Music) 10. Dabeat & Kamilo Sanclemente - Interstellar Pulse (Propotion) 11. Forty Cats - Custom (Jiminy Hop Remix) (Mango Alley)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Dave Leck - Nomadic (Meanwhile Horizons) 2. Lisandro (AR) - Horizons (Proton Music) 3. Mindlancholic - Over the Dream (Transensations Records) 4. Dabeat - Etna (Solis Records) 5. Fran Garay - Relumb (The Wash Remix) (Mango Alley) 6. Influence (IN) - Paradigm (YOMO Records) 7. Paul Hamilton, CaThY K - Shatterproof (Univack) 8. Nhar - Hyperborée (Reborn Project) 9. Sasha - Wolks Vagon (Last Night On Earth) 10. Jamie Stevens - Mad Bells (Extended Mix) (Meanwhile) 11. Robin Thurston - Constellation (Emergent Properties) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Revival Agents - Divine Inside (Dmitry Molosh Remix) (Timeless Moment) 2. Ezequiel Arias - Mad Man (Sudbeat) 3. GMJ & Matter - Elemental (Cid Inc. Remix) (Meanwhile) 4. High On Mars - Orientalist (Stan Kolev Extended Remix) (UV Noir) 5. Jody Barr - Pomegranate Skies (Oddity Records) 6. Einmusik - Nassau (Einmusika Recordings) 7. David Podhel - Communicate (Tomas Garcia Remix) (Moussaieff Records) 8. Framewerk - Closer To Me (Framewerk 4-4 Rewerk) (White) 9. Stereo Underground - The Last Dance (Lost & Found) 10. BBE - Seven Days And One Week (BLR Remix) (White) 11. Sasha, Because of Art - Fused (Last Night on Earth) 12. Framewerk - Perfect Motion (Framewerk Rewerk) (White)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Andy Green & Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. GMJ - Valinor (Meanwhile) 2. GMJ - Bayen (Meanwhile) 3. Hidden Culture - Meraki (Bullfinch) 4. Maudlin - Trailway (Chihaka Remix) (Particles) 5. Meeting Molly - Joy a Toy (Meanwhile) 6. Michael A - Cherry Blossom (Genesis) 7. Mattim - Komorebi (Deepwibe Digital) 8. Federico Barga - Perception (Balkan Connection South America) 9. EMPHI - Silhouettes (Tonaco Remix) (WARPP) 10. Michael A - Lunar Horizon (Genesis) 11. Alex O'Rion - The Chase (Navar Remix) (Meanwhile) 12. Michael A - Termit (Gav Easby Remix) (inU) 13. David Podhel - Communicate (Moussaieff Records) 14. VENAO - Promission (AH Digital) 15. Around Us - Bartok (Movement Limited) 16. Joelle Atkins - The Beyond (Move Music Productions) 17. Poli-Poli - Connection (Robin Thurston Remix) (BC2) 18. Sam Hopgood - Blacklight (UGENIUS) 19. Scippo - Jan P (Ruben Karapetyan Remix) (Mango Alley) 20. Nila - Vortex (Vapour Recordings) 21. Rockka - Gridlock (YOMO Records) 22. Gav Easby - Reconcile (Gai Barone Remix) (inU) 23. Trilucid - Athena (Nick Warren & Nicolas Rada Remix) (UV) 24. Jamie Stevens & Zankee Gulati - The Rip (Sudbeat Music) 25. Jhordan Welsch & Mindlancholic - The Sound of Sadness (Franco Camiolo Remix) (AH Digital)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Ultraverse - In Progression (Menkee Remix) (Intu Music) 2. Sebastian Sellares - Reverse Call (Proton Music) 3. Mattim - Rosa (Alan Cerra Remix) (onedotsixtwo) 4. Fran Garay - Mirror Hour (Fordal Remix) (Forensic Records) 5. Nacres - Naturalize (RKP) 6. Ruben Karapetyan - Erectheum (Meanwhile) 7. Chaum, Hobin Rude - Cressida (Juicebox Music) 8. Javier Román - Iris (Christian Monique Remix) (AH Digital) 9. Kris Dur - Solos (Nicolas Benedetti Remix) (AH Digital) 10. Jero Nougues - Ataraxia (Cedren & Manu-L Remix) (Arcedian) 11. Redspace & Dajals - Stratosphere (Soundteller Records) 12. Three Little Notes - Blue Land (AH Digital) 13. Diode Eins - Aberration (Mango Alley) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Soul Button - Qabila (Steyoyoke) 2. Steven McCreery - Interference (Eze Ramirez Remix) (Sudbeat Music) 3. L E N K E - Suraya (Menkee Remix) (Mirabilis Records) 4. Clawz SG - Astir (Steyoyoke) 5. David Museen & Erik Christiansen - Monk (Lowbit Records) 6. James Harcourt & AFFKT - Parabola (SINCOPAT) 7. Emitr & Gui Boratto - Homologic (Gui Boratto Remix) (SCI+TEC) 8. Paul Thomas - Emotional Landscapes (Extended Mix) (UV) 9. Jamie Stevens - With You (Sasha Carassi Extended Remix) (Music To Die For) 10. Jamie Stevens - With You (Original Mix) (Music To Die For) 11. Framewerk - Dark & Long (Framewerk Rewerk) (White)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Khen - Golden Key (Lost & Found) 2. Jamie Stevens - Seeds (Selador) 3. Mindo & Digital Mess - Silver Stone (Univack) 4. Artem Arknet - Nebula (Neuralis Remix) (AH Digital) 5. Nick Muir - Lux Aeterna (PAAX (Tulum) Remix) (Krafted Underground) 6. Nicolas Leonelli & Sebastian Haas - False Realities (Beat Boutique) 7. Meeting Molly - Joy a Toy (Meanwhile) 8. Ruben Karapetyan - Amberd (3rd Avenue) 9. Orange JD - Vertigo (Shade Audio Remix) (AH Digital) 10. Melodiam (AR) - No Way Out (Balkan Connection) 11. Alan Cerra - Orbital (Particles) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Beije - Azimuth (GMJ Introspective Mix) (Sound Avenue) 2. Sound Fusion - Samhain (Dave Leck Remix) (Electronic Tree) 3. Juan Lagisquet - Cardamom (Deepwibe Digital) 4. GMJ & Matter - Atunga (Sudbeat Music) 5. Andy King - Lights by the Water (Juan Deminicis Remix) (Soundteller Records) 6. Dabeat - Sinergy (Magitman Remix) (Proton) 7. Kostya Outta - On Waves (Proportion) 8. Ruben Karapetyan & Mango - Golden Age (Anthony Pappa & Jamie Stevens Remix) (Mango Alley) 9. Michael A - Same Dream (Genesis Music) 10. Juan Lagisquet - Closure (Deepwibe Digital) 11. Nicholas Van Orton - Oseram (Gonza Ponce Remix) (Balkan Connection South America) 12. DJ Bird - Galactica (Consapevole Recordings) 13. Jamie Stevens - Dante (Weekend Heroes Remix) (Dreaming Awake) 14. Nōpi - Gray Time (Deepwibe Underground) 15. Chaum & Hobin Rude - Back and Forth (Sudbeat Music) 16. Orsen - Afterlight (Replug) 17. AFFKT - Sopasopa (1979 Remix) (Renaissance Records) 18. Nick Muir - All One Word (Trilucid 2AM Extended Mix) (Proton Music) 19. Kasey Taylor & Karl Pilbrow - Sunlight Storm (Sudbeat Music) 20. Fur Coat - Tomb Raider (Atlant) 21. Orsen - Night Visions (Replug) 22. Following Light - Aspice (Mind Of Us Remix) (Mirabilis) 23. Framewerk - Love Stimulation (Framewerk Rewerk) (White)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. East - Sonnenlicht (Rikk Earth Rework) (LuPS Records) 2. Matter - All Knowing (Meanwhile) 3. Wolf Ear & Fassbender & Sherinne - Open Your Heart (Jamie Stevens Dub Remix) (Strange Town Recordings) 4. Dmitry Molosh - Secret (Deepwibe Underground) 5. Meeting Molly - Outlaw (Not Demure Remix) (Mango Alley) 6. Artem Arknet - Octarine (Deepwibe Digital) 7. Michael A - Helius (Genesis Music) 8. Guy J - State of Trance (Lost & Found) 9. Golan Zocher & Choopie - SAO (Hernan Cattaneo & Simply City Extended Remix) (Univack) 10. Ric Niels - Pirate (Proportion) 11. Seyah - Above the Sky (Genesis Music) 12. Maze 28 - Redux (Mango Alley) 13. Sanula - Misterious Wind (Paul Hamilton Remix) (Soundteller Records) 14. Mike Rish - Reka (Meanwhile) 15. Jerome Isma-Ae - Baharat (GMJ & Matter Remix) (JEE Productions) 16. Franco Leonardini & Gonzalo Sacc -Shaft of Light (Sebastian Busto Remix) (Warung Recordings) 17. Nick Muir - All One Word (GMJ & Matter Remix) (Proton) 18. Greenage - Soul Drive (Juan Deminicis Remix) (Mango Alley) 19. Nicolas Leonelli & Sebastian Haas - False Realities [Beat Boutique) 20. Hobin Rude - Someone to Chase (Andy Woldman Remix) (inU) 21. Tantum - Suan Pan (Meanwhile) 22. Soul Button - Qabila (Steyoyoke) 23. Steven McCreery - Interference (Eze Ramirez Remix) (Sudbeat Music) 24. L E N K E - Suraya (Menkee Remix) (Mirabilis Records) 25. Astir - Clawz SG - Astir (Steyoyoke) 26. David Museen & Erik Christiansen - Monk (Lowbit Records) 27. Parabola - James Harcourt & AFFKT - Parabola (Sincopat) 28. Emitr & Gui Boratto - Homologic (Gui Boratto Remix) (SCI+TEC) 29. Paul Thomas - Emotional Landscapes (Extended Mix) (UV) 30. Jamie Stevens - With You (Sasha Carassi Extended Remix) (Music To Die For) 31. Jamie Stevens - With You (Original Mix) (Music To Die For) 32. Underworld - Dark & Long (Framewerk Rewerk) (White) Part 2 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) [from 2h52] 1. Figueras - Crystal Clear (Tantum Remix) (Flown Records) 2. Doyeq - Hadza in Moscow (Kiosk ID) 3. Brian Cid - Vakaneria (Endangered) 4. HAUMS - The Other Side (Weird Sounding Dude Remix) (Quantum Feels) 5. Daniel Testas - Being a Phoenix (Not Demure Remix) (Just Movement) 6. Anton Borin (RU) - Anatman (Subconscious Tales Remix) (Mango Alley) 7. Chär Spinelli - Existence (Modern Agenda) 8. Wolf Ear & Fassbender & Sherinne - Open Your Heart (Jamie Stevens Dub Remix) (Strange Town Recordings) 9. Benja Molina - Tomorrow (Soundteller Records) 10. James Harcourt & AFFKT - Parabola (Sincopat) 11. Quivver & Dave Seaman - Liquid Nights (Mobilee Records)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Allex - Deviate (Univack) 2. Golan Zocher & Choopie - Amirim (Figueras Remix) (Sound Avenue) 3. Jamie Stevens - Stuck on a Feeling (Hernan Cattaneo & Marcelo Vasami Remix) (Meanwhile) 4. Eric Lune, Juan Sapia - Diamonds (Eran Aviner & Hermanez Remix) (Edge) 5. Emi Galvan - Around the World (Replug) 6. Mayro & Rodrigo Lapena - Asir (Weird Sounding Dude Remix) (Mango Alley) 7. Derek von Wurmb - Small Things (The Soundgarden) 8. Allex - Esperanza (Univack) 9. Kay-D - Cascade (Monostone Remix) (AH Digital) 10. Ivan Aliaga - Blue Shade (Da Luka & Jorgio Kioris Remix) (Mango Alley) 11. Essco - Diva (Higher States) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Brian Cid - Secret Tunnel (Lost & Found) 2. Maezbi - Wonderland (Plaisirs Sonores Records) 3. John Cosani - One Dollar (Sudbeat Music) 4. Jamie Stevens - Storm Front (Mike Rish Remix) (Meanwhile) 5. Quivver - The Dark Side of Pleasure (Controlled Substance) 6. Influence - Time Out (Balkan Connection South America) 7. Hobin Rude - The Only Thing That Matters (Mango Alley) 8. Melodious - Affection (Gerardo Moro Remix) (AH Digital) 9. Gai Barone - MoMa (Patternized Recordings) 10. Ric Niels & Dowden - Spiral (GMJ Remix) (Mango Alley) 11. Kenan Savrun - Shiraz (Cloaked Remix) (One Of A Kind) 12. Benja Molina - Isla Caiman (Deepwibe Digital) 13. Lucho - Sebastian (Balkan Connection South America) 14. Lucho - Driving (Balkan Connection South America) 15. Insync-Minds - Fable Essence (JourneyDeep Records) 16. Kamilo Sanclemente - Revenge of Jedi (Matias Burna Remix) (Deepwibe Underground) 17. Hernan Cattaneo & Jody Barr - Airglow (Sudbeat Music) 18. Subtractive - Finding Magic (Bonzai Progressive) 19. Ritchie Haydn, Mind Of Us - The One (Mind of Us Remix) (Capital Heaven) 20. Brian Cid - Daydreamer (Lost & Found) 21. Mike Koglin - The Silence (GMJ & Matter Remix) (Noys Music) 22. Jamie Stevens - Circles (Navar Remix) (Meanwhile) 23. John Cosani - Vulgare (Sudbeat Music) 24. Gai Barone - MaFra (Patternized Recordings) 25. René Diehl - Liquid Dreams (Soul Button Remix) (Inner Symphony) 26. Dave Seaman & Hernán Cattáneo - Napkin Knowledge (Selador) 27. Blacklist Productions - Born Again (Insync-Minds Remix) (JourneyDeep Records] 28. Anthony Pappa, Jamie Stevens & Alice Rose - Nothing To Hide (Selador) 29. Samer Soltan - Chkoun (Renaissance Records) 30. Stereolynk - Are You Listening (Andrés Moris Remix)(Mirabilis Records) 31. James Monro - Injected with a Serum (Clawz SG Remix) (Proton Music) 32. James Harcourt & Heik - Ghost (Selador) 33. JARES - Inception (Petar Dundov Remix)(Beatfreak Recordings) 34. Franky Wah & Korolova - Lost In Space (SHÈN Recordings) 35. Fuenka - More Love (Extended Mix) (UV Noir) 36. Axel Haube - Disconnected (Eleatics Records) 37. James Monro - Another Weirdo (Jamie Stevens Remix) (Proton Music) 38. Nihil Young - As One (Extended) (Vandit Alternative) 39. Framewerk - Seven Days and One Week (Framewerk 4-4 Rewerk) (white) 40. Because Of Art feat. Antony Szmeriek - Circle Of Light (Instrumental Mix) (Stress Records)

Do you want to make more money?   In this episode of the Happy Hustle Podcast, I am super excited to talk to you about something that is near and dear to all of our hearts: money. Yes, that's right. Money can be a powerful tool that can help you create the reality that you want, and it's essential if you want to Happy Hustle a life that you love.   I have had the pleasure of interviewing some of the most brilliant minds in the business world. I've talked to Harvard lawyers, nine-figure entrepreneurs, and influential investors, and all of them have one thing in common: they know how to Happy Hustle their way to success.   And now, I am excited to share with you their insights on how they make money. You will hear from Dan Martell, Kareen Walsh, Hollis Carter, Genevieve Pleasure, Robin Thurston, Chris Felton, Bart Miller, Candy Valentino, Darin Olein, Norm Westervelt, Craig Collins, Kiana Danial, Sterling Hawkins, Joey Vaillancourt, Deidre Sirianni, Jeff Lerner, Dr. Kristin Camilla, and Mr. Jeff Socha. Each of these entrepreneurs has shared their unique Happy Hustle Hack for managing money and building wealth. Whether it's investing in real estate,  saving, or building their business, each of them has found a way to make money work for them.   So, if you're looking for some inspiration on how to build wealth and create the life you want, be sure to tune into this special episode of the Happy Hustle Podcast.   And if you find it valuable, please share it with someone you know who could benefit from these insights. Together, we can spread the Happy Hustle movement and help more people build the lives they want.   Connect with Cary!https://www.instagram.com/cary__jack/https://www.facebook.com/SirCaryJackhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/cary-jack-kendzior/https://twitter.com/thehappyhustlehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFDNsD59tLxv2JfEuSsNMOQ/featured  Get a free copy of his new book,  The Happy Hustle, 10 Alignments to Avoid Burnout & Achieve Blissful Balance https://www.thehappyhustlebook.com/  Sign up for The Journey: 10 Days To Become a Happy Hustler Online Course http://www.thehappyhustle.com/JourneyApply to the Montana Mastermind Epic Camping Adventure https://caryjack.com/montana “It's time to Happy Hustle, a blissfully balanced life you love, full of passion, purpose, and positive impact!” Episode Sponsor Did you know that 4 out of 5 Americans are magnesium deficient?  And almost everyone is at suboptimal levels. And that's a big problem because magnesium is involved in more than 600 biochemical reactions in our body. Now here's what most people DON'T know: taking just any magnesium supplement won't solve your problem because most supplements use the cheapest kinds that your body can't use or absorb. That's why I exclusively recommend Magnesium Breakthrough. It's the only full-spectrum magnesium supplement with 7 unique forms of magnesium that your body can actually use and absorb. When you get all 7 critical forms of magnesium, pretty much every function in your body gets upgraded... from your brain... to your sleep... pain, and inflammation...and less stress. BiOptimizers only offers this discount once a year, so don't miss out. Just go to www.bioptimizers.com/happy and enter code happy10 to get 10% off any order.   I assure you that all BiOptimizers supplements are best in class. If for some reason you feel differently, you can get a full refund, no questions asked. They are so confident that they offer a 365-day money-back guarantee!

In this insightful podcast, Robin Thurston, the CEO of Outside, shares his journey from founding MapMyFitness to joining Under Armour and eventually leading the charge at Outside. Thurston highlights the importance of being resilient in entrepreneurship. He emphasizes the need to focus on three main decisions once you take institutional funding: going bust, selling to a strategic partner, or going public. He also shares valuable marketing lessons he learned from Kevin Plank, the founder of Under Armour, including the importance of attention to detail, storytelling, and relationship building. Thurston discusses the differences in company culture between MapMyFitness and Under Armour, highlighting the former's focus on technology and customer-driven innovation. He reveals the story behind his decision to leave Under Armour and pursue content-based subscription models, leading to the creation of Outside. The podcast also delves into the challenges of competing against attention-grabbing tech giants like TikTok and Twitter, as Thurston explains the need to develop compelling reward mechanisms that encourage outdoor activities and improve overall health. 00:00 - Introduction 00:13 - Different API Integrations 03:58 - Robin's Background in Cycling 06:13 - Robin's Career in Finance 07:25 - The Beginning of MapMyFitness 09:42 - Launching Early in the App Store 10:33 - Realizing the Potential of Mobile Apps 11:54 - Being Featured in the App Store and Distribution 15:55 - Kevin's Attention to Detail and Storytelling 17:46 - Differences in Culture: From MapMyFitness to Under Armour 19:19 - Launching Health Box and Connected Shoe Hover 20:11 - Competing for Resources in Big Companies 21:00 - Friction Between Technology and Clothing Company Cultures 22:14 - Robin's Clear Vision for Outside 23:16 - The Story Behind Acquiring Outside 23:35 - Building the Complete Picture of Health with Under Armour Record 24:27 - Considering a Billion Dollar Subscription Business with Content 26:16 - Robin's Idea to Unify Fragmented Publications Under One Umbrella 27:57 - Reaching Out to Larry Burke, Founder of Outside Magazine 29:18 - Convincing Entrepreneurs to Join the Unified Vision 31:18 - Pitching Entrepreneurs vs. Pitching Investors 33:09 - The Long-term Partnership Aspect of Acquiring Companies 33:39 - Differences in Raising Funds for the First Time and with Onset 34:02 - Lessons Learned from Pitching to Investors 34:58 - Importance of Knowing When to Move On in Sales 35:54 - Maintaining Optimism Amidst Rejections 36:11 - Role of Cycling & Childhood in Resilience 37:03 - Overcoming Difficulties & Building Outside 37:47 - Creating a Seamless Experience for Consumers 38:58 - The Journey from Inspiration to Participation 40:31 - Addressing the Global Health Crisis 41:48 - The Importance of Connection to the Planet 43:13 - Competing with Indoor Time and Building Reward Mechanisms 47:15 - The Importance of Outdoor Time and Mental Health 48:48 - The Role of Intermediaries and Restricting Social Media Usage 49:42 - Building Solutions to Counterbalance Negative Impacts 50:27 - Discussing Potential Rewards for Spending Time Outdoors 51:15 - Pokemon Go: Gamification to Encourage Physical Activity 52:18 - Rewarding Users with NFTs 52:37 - Outside's Future in 5 Years 53:57 - Wearables and Outside's Connection 54:24 - The Future of Wearables 56:09 - Integrated Personalized Healthcare 57:15 - Revolutionizing Health through Data 58:42 - Measuring Biomarkers Dynamically 59:32 - Understanding Body Chemistry 01:00:29 - Breaking Olympic Records through Efficiency and Knowledge 01:01:11 - Closing Remarks and Collaboration The Site ► http://tryterra.co More Podcasts ►https://blog.tryterra.co/podcast/home Twitter ► https://twitter.com/terraapi Linkedin ► https://www.linkedin.com/company/terraapi

On this week's episode, Stephen Frothingham, Editor in Chief of Bicycle Retailer & Industry News at Outside, Inc, joins Randall to share his unique perspective on bicycle industry dynamics in general and the bike shop and OEM ecosystem in particular. Steve is an industry veteran who approaches his work with a warmth and curiosity we've long appreciated, and his reporting continues to serve as an influential resource for all of us who work in the space. Episdoe sponsor: Dynamic Cyclist (Promo code THEGRAVELRIDE for 15% off) Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello, and welcome to the gravel ride podcast, where we go deep on the sport of gravel cycling through in-depth interviews with product designers, event organizers and athletes. Who are pioneering the sport I'm your host, Craig Dalton, a lifelong cyclist who discovered gravel cycling back in 2016 and made all the mistakes you don't need to make. I approach each episode as a beginner down, unlock all the knowledge you need to become a great gravel cyclist. This week on the podcast, I'm going to hand the microphone over to my co-host Randall Jacobs. Who's got Steven Frothingham editor and chief of bicycle retailer and industry news on the show to discuss his unique perspective on bicycle industry dynamics. The general bike shop and OEM ecosystem in particular, Steve is an industry veteran who approaches his work with warmth and curiosity that is so appreciated. His reporting continues to serve as an influential resource to everyone who works in the bicycle retail space. I think you'll get a lot out of this episode, learning a little bit more of the ins and outs of the industry as it all trickles down and has an effect. On us as riders. Before we jump in, I do need to thank this week. Sponsor, dynamic cyclist. The team over at dynamic cyclist has created a video library of stretching and strengthening techniques. Specifically designed around cyclists. The founders, cyclists themselves found a niche in developing this content as it didn't exist before their efforts. They've created hundreds and hundreds of different stretching routines to focus on different parts of the body that affect your performance as a cyclist. It's something for me that has become super important. I've been following the routine since around November last year, really specifically to work on lower back strengthening, but it found that I'm much more disciplined knowing that I've got these 15 to 20 minute episodes always available to me, both streaming from their website or also available from the app. I encourage you to give it a try. They've got a free one week trial, and if it works for you, They're offering gravel ride podcast listeners, a 15% discount off monthly or annual plans. It's quite affordable. I think it's less than a hundred dollars for an entire year's worth of programming. I expect like me I'll dip in and out of it with a heavier focus in the winter, but trying to stay on it, as I realized that stretching needs to be part of my routine. If I'm going to maintain my love and active cycling lifestyle, particularly on the gravel bike, where we all tend to get roughed up a bit. Use the code, the gravel ride to get that 15% off, just put it in the coupon code box@dynamiccyclists.com. When you check out, If that sounds like it's up your alley, I hope you give it a try again. They've got that free one week trial. So why the hell not. With that said, I'm going to hand the microphone off to my co-host Randall Jacobs. And jump right into this conversation with Steven Frothingham. [00:03:11] Randall: You're an old hand in the bike industry in the journalism space. Give us a little bit of background about that. [00:03:17] steve: , know, I started at Brain, I think I was the first editor hired back in think 92. And then I left and worked for the Associated Press twice and then came back into the bike industry to work for, be News for a few years. Uh, left them, went back to Brain, and then the company that owned Be News bought Brain. I ended up back in that same company again, which became outside. So it, yeah, it kind of feels like, uh, even though I don't work for ERs again, I feel like I'm back with the same crew. Uh, I literally was in the same, same desk, same office for a little while. So, uh, that, that seems to be, seems to be the pattern in my career here. [00:03:55] Randall: Just to clarify for our listeners, brain is bicycle retailer where you are currently, uh, editor-in-chief. Correct. [00:04:01] steve: Mm-hmm. [00:04:03] Randall: Tell us a little bit about the nature of that publication. So what role does it serve in the industry? [00:04:09] steve: well, when we started it in 92, you know, the full name is Bicycle Retailer and Industry News. And, uh, the, and was important back then because the, um, the other trade magazines, and believe it or not, there were three others back then were all print magazines. We were the fourth. Um, but they had this real focus on. Kind of this old school dealer thing, like, you know, we're gonna profile this retailer this month. We're gonna do a story on, know, uh, how to hire kids for the summer. We're gonna do a story about how to display your tires. Um, and we're not really gonna write about the industry, the supplier side. So we came along and we were bicycle retailer and industry news. And we used to kinda joke that what we're doing is reporting. We're telling the retailers what the, uh, suppliers are doing to them this month. Um, which is maybe a little bit too cynical, but we, we reported on what the industry was doing. We reported the news of what the supplier side was doing for the most part, which is what the retailers want to read. Um, most retailers, they might say that they'd like to read a story about how to merchandise their tires, but that's kind of broccoli. You know what they were, what really wanna, wanna have is the, uh, the steak and potatoes of, uh, finding out what one of their suppliers, uh, just bought another company or just went bankrupt or just switched factories in Taiwan or, or something like that. And that's the kinda stuff that the, uh, the other titles we're not doing back in the nineties, which is why, uh, this is gonna bring out the competitive bike racer jerk in me. But we, we put the other three out of business in three or four years, I think. Um, it wasn't very long before Brain was the only, uh, industry title in the US and, um, to some extent we're still doing the same thing. Obviously we've had to adapt to social media and the internet, which didn't exist when, when we started the magazine. But, um, we're still doing the same thing. We, we focus on news and, um, You know, we like to do some, we like to profile important retailers once in a while, but for the most part, uh, we still report on what the supplier side is doing with the knowledge that most of our readers are, uh, are retailers independent? [00:06:37] Randall: I actually hadn't appreciated that you were on the founding team for bicycle retailer. So can you share a little bit more about that and who else was involved and how that came to be? [00:06:47] steve: Well, I didn't have an investment unfortunately. Uh, I was, I think I was 22 years old or something, so I was just the first hired gun there. Uh, mark, who still writes for us, was the founding editor, uh, and a partner early on. There was another partner named Bill Sandler, who, uh, passed away quite a few years ago now. Uh, so Mark and Bill were, were really the founders um, Uh, I think they hired a, uh, an office lady named Kathy, and then they hired me. And, uh, that was kind of the start of the fun and, um, you know, and then the company went through various different ownerships, uh, some of which happened when, after I left, when I was, uh, outside the bike world for while. Uh, sometimes I forget it went through three or four different ownerships. Uh, when I came back it was owned by Nielsen of the famous Nielsen Ratings Nielsen, which, uh, owned, uh, trade shows including interbike. And, uh, we were actually operated by the National Bicycle Dealers Association, the nonprofit dealer trade group. Um, so we were owned by Nielsen, which was kind of renamed as Emerald Expositions. Uh, so I think my paycheck came from, now my paycheck came from the Mbda a you know, we went through quite a few years of being run by a very small nonprofit trade association. And then, and then it changed hands. Uh, M BDA a had some financial problems and, uh, we were not exactly helping things. So, uh, we got handed off to, uh, what was then called Pocket Outdoor Media, the company that owned Velo News. They owned Velo Press Draft, fleet Magazine. At that point, uh, Robin Thurston was a minority investor, I believe, in pocket outdoor media. And then, uh, you know, about a year or so after, uh, brain became part of that group, became the ceo, um, started raising money to buy a whole bunch of titles, which you've probably heard about, including Pink Bike Cycling Tips, um, some, uh, some bike events in Colorado. And then eventually the big purchase was raising the money to buy outside Magazine. And, um, company Pocket Outdoor Media was, I think, I think Robin had actually hired a marketing company to come up with a new name for Pocket Outdoor Media, because people thought Pocket Outdoor Media was a billboard company. Uh, and the sales reps didn't like that. Uh, so they were, you know, doing the marketing thing of, of bouncing all these ideas off the wall, coming, trying to come up with a new idea and a new name. And then after they bought Outside magazine, they're like, well, why don't we just, you know, renamed the company outside? we became outside, which things have been moving very quickly. It's, you know, it's a big change for me moving from for a very tiny, little underfunded non-profit trade association from bicycle shops N bda, to working for this multi billion dollar startup basically a tech company. Um, change. And that's why the, the time, you know, I mean, I think back it seems like, you know, a decade ago, but it's only been like two and half years. [00:10:23] Randall: So Robin Thurston is the current c e o of outside the group. And he previously founded is it, uh, map my. [00:10:31] steve: Map my ride, map my run my companies, sold to Under Armor. [00:10:35] Randall: I think that was like 160 million acquisition or something. I remember having this number offhand because it was part of my pitch deck for another company that I was trying to raise money for. It's like, oh here's a comparison point of this company that was acquired in the space. [00:10:50] steve: Yeah, I mean map where I was kind of ahead of the curve with doing some of the stuff that Strava's doing now, and uh, now and outside. We have Gaia, which is a, mapping app that's primarily used by hikers and skiers. And then trail Forks, which was developed by Pink Bike as a mapping app mostly for mountain bikers. [00:11:12] Randall: It's quite well regarded of, of seen in some of the forums. People are very keen on that particular application in the quality of the routes there [00:11:19] steve: are really good. They do have their niches. I use Gaia for backcountry skiing and it, it works really well. And it's, uh, uh, you know, we could go way down a rabbit hole, but you know, why I choose to use Gaia when I'm skiing and why I use trail forks when I'm mountain biking and why I use, don't know what else when I'm road biking. I don't know. But, you know, each has its own, uh, its own advantages in different spaces. So, yeah. Robin, made his fortune, I think, fair to say, selling that company to, uh, under Armour. And then he worked for Under Armour for a while. I think he was the Chief Technology Officer at Under Armor, uh, left and did some other stuff, and then eventually came back to this group. [00:12:02] Randall: So you started when you were 22, essentially first hire for bicycle retailer, this fledgling industry magazine with a particular point of view that resonated with dealers. What drew you to this particular space? You studied journalism in college. Were you an avid cyclist? [00:12:18] steve: Yeah. All that. Yeah. Uh, I was a cyclist. From day one, I started in B BMX when I was a little turd. Uh, I'm definitely, I'm totally of that age now where, you know, I'm 55 now and I go to the shows and I see these retro BMX bikes that some of the companies are doing. My light up, oh, there's that red that I wanted when I was, now I buy it. I've resisted so far, but yeah, I started in bmx. I did mountain bike races back in the eighties and road racing and, and, uh, and yeah, then I, I got a journalism degree and I did work completely outside the bike world for about 10 years, the Associated Press, covering presidential politics in New Hampshire where the presidential primary is a big deal. So that was really fun. I think I covered three or four primaries in New Hampshire. Plus the usual AP stuff of plane crashes and lost hikers and syrup and lost mooses and stuff like that. [00:13:18] Track 1: Standard, Northeast Fair. [00:13:19] steve: Yeah. Typical New Hampshire stuff. [00:13:21] Track 1: And remind me where you grew up. [00:13:24] steve: in New England. Uh, I was born just a little north of where you are in Salisbury, Massachusetts. And, uh, my family moved up into New Hampshire when I was a teenager. And then when I came back, when I worked for the Associated Press, I lived in Wolfborough, New Hampshire for about 10 years. [00:13:38] Track 1: So you and I when we chat tend to go off in various tangents so, where would you like to go? Or, or we can start with the email that you sent me yesterday about shaman cues. [00:13:49] steve: yeah. I could interview you on that. What do you know? [00:13:52] Track 1: Well, you're the one, the inside line. Yeah. You saw the press release. [00:13:56] steve: the inside line yet. You know, I'm just starting my research and I'm, I'm going to Taiwan next week, so hopefully I'll learn a lot more over there. But, it looks like a fairly significant development, this cues thing. I was sitting through a, I think it was an hour long video recording from Shaman about it yesterday. And, I got antsy halfway through and started calling people and emailing people, and, uh, video was moving too slowly. So like, I need some more need. I need to check in with some people around the industry here to see what they think. [00:14:27] Track 1: For those listening, shaman released a new, not just group set, but family of group sets on their kind of entry to entry, mid-level. And, it's significant for reasons that go beyond simply, here's some new parts. They have a reputation for using constantly varying standards and interfaces and pull ratios, which is the ratio of cable pull to, gear shifting. so how much cable pulls results in how much movement of the derailer constantly varying that, not just year to year, but from group to group in order to avoid cross compatibility with third party components and even within their own groups so that brands don't mix and match. Say you want a higher end quote unquote, set of levers connected to a lower injury derail because you don't see the value in the higher end derailer. Well, they preclude that by adjusting the pull ratios from group to group. And so what they've done with cues is make it such. The pull ratio is the same across all the groups, even with different speeds. And the thing that the major differentiator between the different levels is the number of years. the cog spacing in the back is the same. , and I think that that's quite significant. and it signals something too. I think it's very much in favor of riders. And it helps shops as well. I think it helps the industry more generally, but it's also indicative of a shift in the power dynamic in the bike industry. , in many ways is the new shaman, they're in the ascendant. They have, , a number of standards that they have put out there that have gotten adoption, that they have defended through patents and, in some cases, litigation and so I, I view it in the context of, innovation and competitiveness in the bike industry. [00:16:09] steve: Yeah, that makes sense. I think even Shaman used the word realistic, meaning that the new groups, they like to say that the technology that makes them special is in the cogs. Not in the chain. not so much in the crank set or the derailer. which allows mix and match so if somebody wants to spec a cassette, whether it's, Nine, 10 or 11 speed with a different crank, with a different chain, it'll still work okay, because there's nothing, it doesn't require any kind of special chain and the, the magic isn't in the chain. It's in the cassettes. So yeah, I think it's more realistic. I mean, obviously the development of this began before the pandemic and the part shortage that was through the pandemic. But, what happened in the pandemic with all these, new third party, fourth party parts coming up, getting a second look, people taking a second look at, whether it's micro shift or, uh, tetra breaks or whatever. Anything they can get. this really kind of seals the deal. This kind of tells you that, , For the next few years, we're probably gonna see more and more of these mixed groups, at least at the lower price. this is all below 1 0 5 on the road, below Dior, 12 speed or 11 speed on the mountain bike side. So everything that was cheaper than Dior and down on the mountain bike, everything that was cheaper than 1 0 5 is now queues [00:17:39] Randall: Which is to say en entry level to, uh, lower mid-level stuff, which is also good stuff. They have, clutch derails 11 speed. It does look to be quality components. [00:17:49] steve: Yep. [00:17:50] Track 1: Yeah. [00:17:50] steve: it's not the electric shifting, it's not the 12 speed. [00:17:52] Track 1: Oh, of course not. No. That, that stuff's still locked down. So, um, in fact, uh, [00:17:58] steve: is a di two group as part of this, as the, um, more, more for the mountain bike, E mountain bike group, there's a DI two. [00:18:06] Track 1: presumably sharing a battery, I haven't dived into that yet. Um, [00:18:11] steve: the one that has the uh, uh, the front freewheeling system and the antilock brakes that they launched at Eurobike last year. [00:18:18] Track 1: got it. [00:18:19] steve: Yeah. [00:18:20] Track 1: Yeah, it's, it's interesting. You, you'll, you may recall that in the past I was looking to, uh, create an open platform for bicycle electronics, and. And was trying to corral the support of that. Um, all those third parties that, that Taiwan vendor base that was shut out of the theam shaman duopoly. Um, I think, uh, probably a little bit before its time. Uh, certainly the, the appetite wasn't there for investments. Um, there was, there was interest, but not in, not any investment dollars coming in from the Taiwan side at that time. Uh, but since then we've seen, I mean, electronic is, well now you have a protocol that you can lock down and so you don't have to vary. It used to be that you vary pull ratios or some sort of mechanical, mechanical interface between components. Now you lock down the communication protocol and the power grid, and in that way you, you constrain interoperability between components from third parties. . Uh, and then you have a lot of patents around the grifter, which is, um, I would argue the, the center, the nexus of power in the bicycle industry, um, is arguably the road grifter, the road brake shift lever. And with it now, the, you know, the, the cas and, uh, you know, with electronic, the electronic protocol, power grid, things like that. Because if you control, you know, even if you just control all, you've patented every single way that you can make a lever swing, [00:19:47] steve: Right. [00:19:48] Track 1: and you know, and that, and then now you control this lever, well, that lever dictates that the caliper has to be from the same. Producer as well, because of safety reasons. You can't mix and match a caliper with a different hydraulic brake system. And then for the electronic, same deal, you know, it controls like you, you just have a closed protocol and nobody else can connect with that. And now you control the interfaces between the levers, the cas, the derails, um, and the bike itself. And now you can dictate, you know, we, we want this particular break interface. And so we see, you know, uh, flat mounts and so on. We see the new universal derail your hangar, uh, that STR introduced, which I haven't, I haven't gone deep on the patent yet, but I, I wonder, do you know if that precludes other companies from attaching a derailer in the same way if they, if they forego that universal hangar? [00:20:45] steve: No, I think Sharon's being pretty open with, with giving licenses to it, but I dunno about other third party. I mean, and at what point are we gonna have another, you know, swam shaman lawsuit, like from back in the eighties or nineties, whenever that was, that the bundling, you know? So at what point did the electronic, um, protocols become open source because of an antitrust law? The antitrust lawsuit? I think it's unlikely. Cause I don't know who would challenge 'em at this point. [00:21:18] Track 1: it's, uh, the bike co. [00:21:20] steve: you got something planned. [00:21:21] Track 1: Um, you know, we're, we're a tiny little blip on, on the grander, um, bike industry and, uh, you know, [00:21:29] steve: 1991. [00:21:30] Track 1: yeah. Well, so is it, is it true or, or answer this however you like? Um, I have, I wasn't around, um, for. At the time that that was happening. And so I get, I have second in hand information from people who were there or were adjacent to it. And then I have what I've read, but my understanding is, um, so was originally grip shift. Grip shift had a different way, uh, twisting the grip on a flat bar lever to shift a rear dera and Shao would try to preclude compatibility by again, changing the pull ratios so that Sam's grip shift wouldn't work with their deras. But then also by having these bundling deals where they go to a bike company, an o e m, uh, original equipment manufacturer. So in this case, like thesis is a, my company is an o e em specializes an no e em truck as no em, and would say, okay, you can buy these components individually, but if you buy the complete group set I e you don't buy's thing, then you get a 20% discount. I think is, is what it was. [00:22:35] steve: Could be. [00:22:36] Track 1: yeah, and there was an antitrust suit that STR filed against Shaman, um, and STR one. And as I understand it, that essentially funded Sam's early rise. That's the reason why we have STR in many ways. [00:22:51] steve: all. I mean, I think there's some other money behind [00:22:53] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:22:54] steve: uh, yeah, that's always been sort of the, uh, the, uh, the urban myth. I don't know the, the STR used that money to go out and, you know, buy all, all the things that they've bought. Rock shocks, true native, um, zip [00:23:11] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:23:12] steve: whatever. And, uh, sax, which nobody really remembers now, but that was a pretty significant purchase. Uhs, not Richard Sax the, uh, frame builder from Connecticut, but, uh, sax of Germany, which, uh, made all the internal hubs and also made derailers and stuff, [00:23:29] Track 1: And chains too. Right? Because I think. [00:23:31] steve: chains, um, became s chains, which became Ram chains. Um, [00:23:37] Track 1: are still made in Portugal, I believe. [00:23:39] steve: I think so, [00:23:40] Track 1: Yeah. [00:23:41] steve: so yeah, they, they acquired that factory. Haven't, you know, chain factory is no small thing. And, um, anyway, that's always been the, you know, um, the rumor Yeah. Is that they used that cash settlement or, or judgment from Shaman to fund those. Uh, I don't know how true that is. Like I said, I know that there is some other money behind Swam and there still is. Um, some of those companies that they bought were, uh, pretty distressed [00:24:12] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:24:13] steve: You know, rock Jocks had had an IPO that, uh, were living at the top of the world there for a couple years [00:24:19] Track 1: The mountain bike. The mountain bike. Boom. [00:24:22] steve: Yeah. And then that kind of crashed and that's about when, when into the Suspension Fork business. [00:24:28] Track 1: Yeah. [00:24:30] steve: So they've been pretty savvy about the, uh, the acquisitions they made Mo most of which were back, back in the nineties. Although, what have they bought recently? They bought, [00:24:40] Track 1: Hammerhead. [00:24:42] steve: hammerhead. [00:24:43] Track 1: Yeah. [00:24:44] steve: one. [00:24:44] Track 1: Yeah. [00:24:45] steve: Yeah. And, uh, and the Power Meter company. I don't, the power tab, which they kinda put [00:24:51] Track 1: cork. [00:24:52] steve: then, [00:24:52] Track 1: Cork, um, was power meters. Um, [00:24:55] steve: power Tap, which they bought from cs, [00:24:58] Track 1: oh, that's right. [00:24:59] steve: what was [00:25:00] Track 1: Uh, shocks. [00:25:02] steve: Jacquez [00:25:03] Track 1: Yeah. [00:25:04] steve: and uh, what was the other one I was gonna say they bought something else. Oh, time pedals. [00:25:14] Track 1: Hmm. So that really gives them, you know, a lot of different, um, components and IP that they can then, uh, interconnect through that. The access, uh, protocol, which is a closed, I believe, ZigBee based, um, protocol. Um, and so, you know, getting back to, you know, open versus closed standards and ecosystems and things like that, um, it seems to be the trend in the industry as, as always to, um, to have walled gardens. [00:25:41] steve: Yeah. And that's been fun. You know, it was fun to see when, when Hammerhead, was, had had some di I two integration that Shaman shut him down [00:25:53] Track 1: Yep. [00:25:54] steve: on after Bottom, which was, um, some pretty good industry gossip right there. Um, but yeah, I mean, everybody, it's been really fun speculating about what's gonna happen, you know, with RAM owning, uh, you know, the power meter company owning a pedal company, owning a, you know, power tap, which made, which used to make power meter pedals. Um, and then owning a, a head unit GPS company on top of that. And then, like you said, the whole integration with access and, uh, it's pretty fun. [00:26:26] Track 1: Yeah, it's the full stack in a way. I mean, [00:26:28] steve: them battling, you know, setting up this not only with Shaman, but with, with, uh, with Fox Factory also. [00:26:38] Track 1: I'm waiting to, for, it seems very natural that a next step for them would to be, would be to buy, say a, a company that makes home trainers or even a company that does training software that, um, they might not want to go direct head-to-head with Swift, cuz Wif has such a dominant position in that space and they don't want to alienate them or get shut off of that platform. But, um, it seems like a natural next step to get into this burgeoning home cycling, uh, space, which granted has. Tapered off a little bit since, you know, post pandemic, but I think is still, you're, you know, there's a whole, there's a whole range of cyclists who primarily ride at home and are doing competitions in virtual worlds, and I don't think that that's going to change as the technology gets better. [00:27:22] steve: Yeah. [00:27:24] Track 1: Yeah. [00:27:24] steve: Yeah, that would make sense. I'm sure there's been all sorts of conversations and there's been a couple brands that have come and gone, um, that, uh, you know, maybe, uh, ceramic has kind of hit its lip and said, no, we're, we're not gonna bid on that one. Or we're not gonna, we're not gonna overpay for that one. I don't know. But, you know, you can look at the, the number of indoor brands that have, uh, had financial problems in the last, uh, year and a half, and, uh, even once before that, that just disappeared. Um, have you seen a kinetic trainer on the market in a couple years? I. [00:28:02] Track 1: Yeah. So what else do you see happening in the bike industry? Um, so obviously parts shortages were the big story during the pandemic. Now we have, uh, parts being, you know, liquidated through various channels and presumably is that's going to accelerate, uh, post Taipei show coming up in, uh, in Taiwan in, uh, the end of March [00:28:25] steve: Yeah, I think so. I think there's still some, some shortages I hear on the road bike component side. I guess you'd know more about that than, than I would. Um, [00:28:34] Track 1: saying group sets or. [00:28:37] steve: yeah, and, and the bikes that those group sets. Hang on. You know, I think, um, know, if you talk to dealers, it's, uh, yeah, they have all the $900 mountain bikes. They can, they can eat, uh, or even I think the 1500, $1,900 bikes, but the, um, the mid to high price mountain bikes are, are a little bit harder to get. And I think also the, um, mid to high price road bikes are hard to get. And, um, and there's kind of a shortage of, there's kind of a dearth of, of. Of really affordable road bikes. [00:29:13] Track 1: Hmm. [00:29:14] steve: I think, uh, there's not a lot of groups there, you know, I mean, tram's got and then, you know, shaman hasn't been, had a real good road group, uh, below 1 0 5 for years. So, you know, it'd be interesting and see how cues affects, affects that. [00:29:34] Track 1: Well, and their, their transition to 12 speed too. Um, and they had a, a factory catch on fire just before the pandemic, right. [00:29:43] steve: Yeah. What was that? It was a, was it like an ANOT factory or something? I know they were making some real high end stuff. Like they were making like the xtr crank, you know, when, when Xtr went to 12 speed, I think they couldn't get a crank for it for like two years. Right. [00:29:59] Track 1: Hmm. [00:29:59] steve: they were like, relabeling, theor, xt cranks. people were pissed about and Uh, yeah, I don't know. It it's, yeah. Fires in the bike in factory fires in the bike industry. That's, that's been, uh, yeah, that's been a gossipy thing going back, you know, 50 years. I think you can get some old timers telling you about famous fires and how they couldn't get such and such for, for five years after that fire. And sometimes I wonder much of it's urban myth, you know, and people just blaming things on their inability to produce stuff. They blame it on a factory fire. Didn't you hear about that? Come on. Giant factory burned out last year. And uh, I think especially before the internet, who would check, you know, it's like, ah, I don't know. I heard that like the van sneaker factory burned down last year. Didn't you hear about that? That's why I can't get those van sneakers I've been looking for. before the internet it was pretty hard to look that up. Now it's a little bit easier, you know? [00:30:55] Randall: Now you've been, so I think probably both of us have been talking to a lot of dealers lately for different reasons. Um, with, with me, we've been building out our, our dealer network for our logo spiel program. Um, and I'm curious to hear, I'll share a little bit about what I've been hearing and I'm curious how that, um, relates to, you know, some of the things that you've been hearing from dealers. So some of the things I've heard is, um, well one, you have, uh, essentially you weren't able to get product for a long time. A lot of dealers over ordered or ordered the same thing from multiple sources, hoping to get it from somewhere, um, sooner rather than later. And then all of it got dumped on the, on dealers in the fall and over the winter at exactly the time when. you know, nothing is selling generally, it's, it's the, the doldrums of the, the bike, uh, selling season and cycling season in North America anyways. But then also, you know, people, uh, with, with the country opening up post covid, um, you know, the bike boom was, was coming to an end and it wasn't clear. You know, where things will, you know, how that will level off and how much lag there will be, where everyone who got a b wanted a bike, got a bike and you know, the, you know, at at what point and, and you know, the secondhand market will start coming down in price and that'll become more compelling. So how long will it take for this lag of, of certain types of components to work its way through the space? Um, and it's been interesting too, you see, um, an ex, am I right that there's an acceleration of the big brands buying shops? [00:32:27] steve: Uh, depends on what time scale you're looking at. I, you know, I don't, I think, um, I think that's slowed down in the last six months or, or nine months. There was a big acceleration, you know, in, in 21, especially, uh, I think it was 21 when, you know, track had been buying shops left and right. Uh, specialized had not. [00:32:50] Track 1: Yep. [00:32:51] steve: um, when Mike's bikes sold to, uh, to pawn in, I think, I wanna say that was 2021. [00:32:59] Track 1: Pawn being the owner of, uh, Cervelo Santa Cruz and a handful of other brands. And Mike Spikes being a big multi-store chain, mostly in, in the NorCal, um, you know, bay Area. Yeah, [00:33:12] steve: Yeah. And they were the, I think the single biggest specialized dealer in the country and one of the, or maybe the most important markets in the country, the [00:33:19] Track 1: I think, I think Eric's was their biggest, I think Mike's bikes was number two. [00:33:24] steve: could [00:33:24] Track 1: but certainly the Bay Area is huge and a lot of, um, you see a lot of. S works, you know, $15,000 bikes rolling around the Bay Area. [00:33:35] steve: Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot more of the high end stuff than, than Eric's sell, I'm sure. [00:33:40] Track 1: Yeah. [00:33:41] steve: Um, and it did, and it did kind of seem like Specialized had all their eggs in that basket. Um, they didn't have a lot of other dealers. It was just Eric. I mean, uh, Mike's just ruled the rot anyway, so Yeah. Specialized really woke up. Uh, that was, that was the wake up call for Mike Ard was, oh my God, we're, we're losing our distribution. Um, and it came on, they lost some other big dis uh, big retail distributions like, uh, um, ables in, in, uh, hill Abel down in Austin, Texas, which was a huge specialized dealer that Trek walked in and bought, um, all of a sudden specialized, lost its biggest dealer in Austin, Texas, which is another, you know, another one of the handful of very biggest markets in the country. [00:34:27] Track 1: And growing, growing rapidly with a lot of deep pocketed folks as well who tend to buy their, their high-end stuff. Yeah. [00:34:34] steve: So all of a sudden specialized, uh, said we've gotta get into buying shops. And, uh, they were running around buying a lot of shops. Um, I think they did not have the system set up that Trekk did for, uh, processing these shops once they had acquired 'em. Uh, so it was a little bit more chaotic, whereas I think Trekk had built up to it slowly and they had, you know, from what the stories I've heard of, you know, TREKK has these SWAT teams that come in when they buy a shop. You know, there's just woo uh, you know, 20, 20 people come down from Waterloo and, and fill up the hotel rooms and whatever town that they just bought the dealership in and just handle that transition. You know, they usually shut down for a week or so, pop up some new signs, change over the website, uh, make some people some offers, and, uh, and they're, you know, kick out all the other brands and, uh, they're up and running again in a couple weeks. And, um, They've got it down to a science now and uh, I don't think specialized ever quite got to that. It was more like, uh, yeah, okay, we bought you, um, keep running. We'll talk to you in a few months when we need something from you. Uh, that was some of the impression I got anyway. I think specialized also was overpaying for some of the shops from some of the stories I heard, but, um, but I think it all slowed down a lot last, last year, I think with the, um, you know, with the economy and I think, um, the cashflow for companies like Specialized Amtrak I think became harder. And there's been a handful of acquisitions in the last nine months, but it, it really slowed down a lot um, I haven't heard it very many recently. We don't hear about 'em all cuz both, both track and specialize. Uh, tend to be really quiet when they buy a, a shop or a chain of shops. Uh, but I haven't heard many rumors in the last three or four months. [00:36:26] Track 1: I've heard, granted, I don't know the, uh, the dates on these, but as I've been talking to dealers, I've heard about offers being made, but those offers may have been made, you know, six, nine months ago, a year ago or something like that. Um, but there's definitely been a lot of, um, a lot of conversations being had along those lines over the past year, year and a half or so. Um, and it's interesting, you know, there's this long standing conversation in the bike industry about, um, you know, the dynamic between, or the balance between, uh, direct to consumer sales over the internet, which is growing for obvious reasons. And the pivotal role that the bicycle shop, particularly independent shops play, um, as a hub for the cycling community. And how do you. You know, how do you maintain this critical bit of community infrastructure, um, in a, in a world where, you know, increasingly people can buy things very conveniently over the internet and have it delivered, um, you know, directly to them. Now there's, you know, service has for a long time, um, been the bread and butter of shops. And a lot of shops pre pandemic were at least telling me, um, that they, as much as they spent a lot of their money on having bikes on the floor, most of their income, most of their net profit was coming from, um, service and parts and accessories. Uh, which is in some ways, you know, supplemental to service. Cuz when you go in for maintenance, you're getting chains and, and other service parts. Um, but how do you, how do you see that evolving over time from your vantage point? [00:38:07] steve: It's been hard. I mean, uh, when you hear that, you think, well, why don't you do a service only place? And, [00:38:15] Track 1: of folks are [00:38:17] steve: a few folks are, I'm not finding a whole lot of great examples of people that have been raging successes doing that. Um, Uh, you know, the whole, the whole mobile service thing has been at best for the last two or three years. Um, you know, I know that, um, a few people that have gone that way in, um, in the Boulder area haven't been hugely successful. I think there might be a couple that are still running, but, um, the problem is that you just lose that volume. You know, whether you make a lot of money on a bike sale or not, it's still, you know, thousand, 2000, 3000, $5,000 bike sale. You know, for some shops in Boulders, I know you were and visited some of them, you know, they pretty regularly are selling 10,000 and [00:39:08] Track 1: sure. [00:39:09] steve: uh, bikes. And, you know, the profit margin on that not be huge. And you might say, well, why does that guy even, you know, still sell mo bikes? Um, he can make more money building a wheel or, you know, just charging someone a few hundred dollars to install a new campy group on a moot spring. Um, but he nee he needs that, that dollar volume, uh, from the bike sale to pay the rent. Um, so there, there haven't been as many examples of that as you would think. you know, going back five years, going back 20, 30 years, people have been talking about, well, hey, we make all our money in service. Why don't we just do service hasn't worked for many people. Um, I think people expect bike shops to have bikes and, uh, I think the bike shops need that, that volume to make it work. Um, you know, some shops have been, have found some supplemental income doing more different types of service, whether it's, you know, whether it's bike fits, whether it's click and collect fulfillment. Or, uh, doing warranty service. You know, I know I, I talked to a guy at Caba who does warranty service for one of the better known to consumer e-bike brands. And, uh, he makes a pretty significant, high margin chunk of money, uh, just from dealing with warranty service from people that buy these bikes online and then have, have whatever troubles and the, uh, the brand reimburses him, uh, pretty generously. [00:40:46] Track 1: Yeah. [00:40:47] steve: so there's all sorts of, uh, kind of ancillary things around the edges that people fill in, but that guy, he still sound a lot of bicycles. [00:40:55] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:40:56] steve: Uh, he still has a warehouse full of 'em, and, uh, um, [00:41:01] Track 1: as do a lot of people right now, especially as we, we were saying on the, on the more entry level, um, in particular, [00:41:09] steve: Yeah. So I don't know. I haven't seen, there's, there's examples here and there. Yeah. Of, of the people who are, who are focusing on the service or are looking into, you know, more of the showrooming, uh, fulfillment click and collect kind of models. And there, you know, there's a million different models as you know, [00:41:27] Track 1: Mm-hmm. Well and, and click and collect and, [00:41:31] steve: not, I'm not finding, but like wholesale, you know, all the bike shops going outta business and all of a sudden we have a whole bunch of just little fulfillment showrooms around. Um, is happening, but not on a huge scale, you know, I mean, what specializes do, I don't know how many of these fulfillment centers they have. Uh, that's one of the things they did up in Northern California where, um, after they lost Mikes was opening up these little fulfillment centers. They would just rent a warehouse space in the, you know, in the business park somewhere and hire a couple people to assemble bikes and give 'em a truck, and they would run around and deliver 'em. [00:42:10] Track 1: Oh, that wa that was basically, um, velo, fix's pitch to the OEMs in the day. Yeah. Uh, Veli fix, uh, being a van based service operator, [00:42:21] steve: Yeah. [00:42:21] Track 1: I know you know this [00:42:22] steve: to be doing a better job of that than, than maybe be, was, um, [00:42:29] Track 1: velo fix. I, [00:42:30] steve: model. [00:42:30] Track 1: yeah. I had spoken with Velix a couple of times, and not only could I not understand the value to us as an o e em as a brand, but I couldn't understand a, you know, they, they required a huge upfront and, uh, investment from their franchisees to not just buy a van but outfitted a particular way and have it beli, fixed, branded. Um, and then, you know, you're paying a, uh, I think an, um, it might have been an upfront fee and then a recurring fee, and then a percentage of your income. To this company and this company, uh, is supposed to drive business to your franchise, but really in a way, they're kind of intermediating you. And at the end of the day, you know, and the co I, I'm curious, what do you think about this? Um, I, I had always talked, uh, spoken to the van based folks that I knew and said like, you know, at the end of the day, your, your brand is yourself and the quality of service and your engagement with your local community. And, you know, there's no big, um, company, uh, I think can substitute for that. And I think the bike space is, is that might be more so the case than in other spaces. Like you have this particular mechanic, uh, because the difference between a good mechanic, a skilled mechanic, a mechanic who cares, uh, and, and does a good job, um, and is engaged in, in their community. The difference between that and. Somebody who doesn't, somebody who doesn't have the skills. Somebody who, you know, it could be the difference between a safe bike and an unsafe bike amongst other things. Yeah. Um, well, so another topic that you and I have touched on in the past is, uh, you. The supply chain and risks to the supply chain. Uh, I've seen a couple of articles, I believe in your publication, uh, talking about, um, the increasing concerns about exposure to, uh, growing hostilities between, uh, the US and China over, uh, Taiwan. And I'm curious, what have you been hearing, seeing, uh, with regards to, um, any sort of changes being made on the, uh, upstream for a lot of companies, um, both, um, OEMs who are sourcing in Asia, but then also say Taiwanese companies and so on, uh, who are producing, um, you know, what, what changes are you seeing? Are people, is that accelerating at all with the, uh, increasingly hostile rhetoric? [00:45:07] steve: Uh, yeah, but you know, slower than maybe I would've expected. Um, and that, you know, that might not be due to reluctance, but just the fact that it's, it's a hard task, um, [00:45:19] Track 1: Yeah. [00:45:20] steve: setting up a, a bike factory or, uh, in a new country and building the infrastructure around it, uh, to make that work, particularly during a pandemic. [00:45:30] Track 1: Yeah, yeah. [00:45:31] steve: so, you know, going back to stories I was writing two years ago, you know, I, I think I saw just recently that Velo Saddle opened their factory in Vietnam, I think it was, [00:45:44] Track 1: Makes sense. [00:45:45] steve: that they had been working on for like three years. Um, and then they just, they were ready to turn it on when the pandemic started, and then they just, um, sat on those plans for a couple years. But yeah, Velo moving outta Taiwan supplementing their Taiwan factory with uh, a Vietnam factory is a big deal. And, um, You know, and at Eurobike last year, I had a lot of talks with people about, them setting up different factories in Eastern Europe to serve the European market. Um, but, uh, you know, we just saw investing in a new factory in Taiwan, so, uh, there's not a, there's not a mess exodus yet, and I think people are, are finding it's, um, fairly hard to operate in some of these other countries. Cambodia, I think, turned out to be more of a challenge than some people thought. [00:46:44] Track 1: Sure [00:46:45] steve: Um, you know, there's stuff moving towards Malaysia and Singapore, I think. Um, [00:46:52] Track 1: in the. [00:46:53] steve: Vietnam has been up and down. They had more covid problems than, than some areas, I think. yeah, it's a very slow movement. I think, you know, um, you know, Trek hasn't broken ground on a giant new factory in, in Waterloo, as far as I know. Or, or, or in Mexico or in, uh, Bulgaria. You know, [00:47:16] Track 1: Well, that, that's a whole, I mean, it's a related conversation, um, and a whole other can of worms that we can crack open. Um, so one, you know, we, we have looked, um, at various times over the years at what it would take, um, both for us to do more production domestically, um, but then also, um, for more production to be done domestically in a general sense. And, uh, I'll give an example. Um, recently I was looking at, uh, you know, developing and sourcing a metal frame, either steel or titanium. Um, we'll, we'll stick with steel. It's an easier example. So, um, called, uh, a few different outfits and, uh, well one, there isn't really anyone who's mass producing steel frames in the US When I say mass producing, like doing, you know, thousand of units at a go. Um, with the exception of maybe Kent. [00:48:09] steve: Detroit. [00:48:11] Track 1: Uh, Detroit bikes [00:48:13] steve: Mm-hmm. [00:48:14] Track 1: they, and they're serving as a contract manufacturer? [00:48:17] steve: Mm-hmm. [00:48:20] Track 1: Might ask for an intro at some point. Um, [00:48:22] steve: That's Tony Kirklands, [00:48:24] Track 1: oh, okay. [00:48:25] steve: who bought, um, he and his partner bought time, [00:48:30] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:48:30] steve: is making carbon frames in Europe somewhere. Slovenia, [00:48:36] Track 1: Okay. [00:48:36] steve: of those European companies, [00:48:37] Track 1: Yeah, [00:48:38] steve: Um, and then that company car, it's called Cardinal Bicycle Works, I think, uh, also bought Detroit. Uh, they're, they claim to be the biggest steel frame maker in the US and uh, they're making stuff under their own. Name and they're doing a couple other contract [00:48:58] Track 1: that. [00:48:58] steve: some, they made some Schwinn Varsities a couple years ago. I mean, I think that was only a few hundred units or a or so. But they actually, they brought Backy made, made Detroit? [00:49:11] Track 1: Well, one of the, the things that's great to hear, and I'm gonna follow up on that, um, one of the things that kept coming up as I was having conversations here was there are essentially two primary, um, sources, uh, brands that are selling, uh, tube sets. Unless you're sourcing factory direct outta somewhere in Asia, uh, I think you have colo. You have, uh, what Columbus some in some Reynolds. And one of, one of them has been struggling with supply and both of them are, are quite expensive in the US vis-a-vis what you can get comparable tube sets for in Asia. And so when you combine those two factors of both more expensive raw stock and the fact that you can't, you don't know it's going to be available and you only have two supply, two primary suppliers versus if I want to make, uh, a frame somewhere in Asia, I have. Countless tube suppliers now don't necessarily want to use just any of them, but even the, the higher end ones, of which there may be a handful, they still have the, all these other factories kind of nipping at their heels. And that, you know, drives innovation. That drives, uh, you know, them to build this sort of, um, you know, production facilities that can handle scale, that are responsive. Uh, they know if they can't deliver on a tight timeframe for a reasonable price, that someone else is gonna develop that capacity to do so. Um, and that goes across every single thing that you could want to source for a bicycle, whether it's something like a carbon component you want to develop. You have any number of facilities where you could co-develop that, that component. And they'll even provide the engineering, in some cases, they'll latize the tooling over the, over the units, which is to say, like, spread the cost of the tooling over the units, the, the tooling costs. You know, my tooling costs for a frame is on the order of like 8,000 bucks a size. . Um, and I could have that built into the price if I do enough volume. That's, you know, you combine all of these factors and, you know, going back to the issue of, of Taiwan, yeah, it doesn't surprise me that you're not seeing moves and mass just because you have such deep and interconnected supply chains there. And even like when you get your goods quoted, they quote it, um, not out of the factory. They deliver it to your door. And that's just expected. And when they say they're gonna deliver it, generally they're pretty on time. Um, particularly, you know, the, the, the better vendors out there, the more professional ones, the velo, uh, you know, velo makes not just saddles, but bar tape and they do most of the high-end stuff in the industry. Uh, still there are a couple competitors, but, um, and it's because they just do such a great job. Um, and that efficiency. And, uh, another example, I was sourcing stems years ago. and I was like, oh, I'm, yeah. I lived in a, I lived in China for a number of years. Uh, I bet you I can find a better deal somewhere in China. I couldn't, Taiwan had better pricing on a superior product. Um, and it's because Taiwan had, um, invested in, you know, factories like, uh, jd, um, their trade name is Trans X. [00:52:15] steve: mm-hmm. [00:52:15] Track 1: they manufacture for any number of brands. They did all of our, uh, cockpit stuff, uh, for thesis, and they just have a very well run production facility in these huge forging machines and really high quality tooling. And they can just crank out high quality 3D forg stems all day with that high quality and without a, a huge, with a less and less human intervention in that process. Um, and, you know, do it at a price that makes it such that, you know, there's no point in going somewhere else. Um, because most of the cost is not associated with the labor. [00:52:52] steve: Yeah. [00:52:53] Track 1: Um, so yeah, that, that makes sense. It'll be interesting. Uh, you know, I'm, as you know, I did my, my graduate studies in US-China relations, and so it's a situation I've been following quite closely. Um, I guess, uh, if something does happen there, uh, the availability of bike parks, it will be the, the least of everybody's issues, [00:53:13] steve: Yeah. Yeah, that's a thing. I mean, there, there won't be many parts of the economy that won't be affected, um, if something happens there. But, um, bike industry will not be an exception, [00:53:24] Track 1: now, [00:53:25] steve: um, except for maybe on the service part. Right. Still, uh, we can still maybe [00:53:31] Track 1: secondhand stuff will be, um, the secondary market will be booming, [00:53:35] steve: Yeah. [00:53:35] Track 1: so, [00:53:36] steve: up now by your, uh, by your HP cassettes now. Yeah. [00:53:43] Track 1: well, so to, you know, to wrap up here, um, what do you see going forward, um, from, and, and very open-ended question, uh, what are you excited about from a technology standpoint? What are you seeing, um, in terms of, uh, you know, innovative business models or distribution models or, uh, just trends in the, in industry more generally. [00:54:10] steve: Well, there's one word that we haven't used so far in this call. You like, [00:54:16] Track 1: Sure. [00:54:17] steve: you know, there's still, there's still some growth there, I think. Um, [00:54:21] Track 1: What do those stats look like right now? [00:54:23] steve: it's not good stats. There aren't any, I don't know. You know, you can just read the T leaves and see that, you know, there's been some discounting and there. Um, even some of the low price brands that were scaring the hell out of everybody a year ago, um, are now blowing out prices, which is not good news, but still, um, kind of suggests that the, uh, the, uh, demand has, has slowed a little bit. [00:54:51] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:54:52] steve: but you know, it's exciting to see, uh, the growth and the cargo bikes, you know, um, you know, I know Specialized finally did their public launch of their globe. The Globe this week. [00:55:02] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:55:03] steve: launched the Ecar bike a month or two ago. I think. there's some others coming around. Turn seems to be kicking ass. Um, And, uh, not to mention rad power. Um, so, you know, that's, that's still exciting. There's still growth potential there. Uh, you know, I don't think you're gonna get to European numbers where, you know, like in the Netherlands where, I don't know, or 70% of the bikes sold, there are e-bikes. Now, you know, we're in the US it's probably 12% or something. I don't know. not gonna get there. I've been saying that for years, but, you know, even if we go from 12% to 18%, that's, uh, a lot of growth. And it's also, um, you know, a high average selling price of these things. You know, [00:55:53] Track 1: Mm-hmm. [00:55:53] steve: to talk about Kent selling $89, 20, 20 inch wheel bikes to Walmart. But when you're talking about somebody, you know, when you know the low price leader is selling bikes for 1400 bucks, uh, e-bikes. [00:56:07] Track 1: Yeah. [00:56:08] steve: You know, and then, you know, and, and specialized just brought out their, you know, their discounted, affordable e cargo bike, which I think starts at 2,500 bucks or something. It's a big, it's a big difference there. [00:56:20] Track 1: Well, [00:56:22] steve: so, you know, Turin is selling these, you know, these little electric mini band bikes, uh, you know, for three, four or $5,000 regularly then, then another thousand dollars in accessories on top of it. Um, so, uh, not to be too focused on the dollars and cents here, but I am, I am from a business magazine, [00:56:43] Track 1: Sure. Yeah. [00:56:44] steve: um, so yeah, there's exciting and, uh, you know, yeah, there's, there's, it's, it's fun to see the growth in the gravel bikes. and uh, and the activity around that, uh, the way the events are going and the competition is, is really interesting. Um, [00:57:05] Track 1: And the, and the community dynamics in the gravel space too, it seems to have remained a lot more accessible even as you have more elite level events and so on, showing, showing up. You still have, you know, lots of local events and it's a, it's a version of cycling that is, well, it's a very versatile machine and it gets you off the road. Which addresses, uh, the, the thing that comes up in survey after survey as the biggest limiter, uh, for people getting on bikes, which is fear of cars, you know, the safety concerns. [00:57:39] steve: yeah, yeah. And I'm not sure what I think about that. I think it is more accessible than, you know, old school, you know, USA cycling, road racing, um, I guess, uh, but you know, last night, I mean, for me, I don't have a whole lot of interest personally in doing a lot of the events. Maybe a couple a year, but, you know, mostly I, what I like about gravel writing is just being able to go out and explore and. Um, ride by myself or with a, a couple friends, but not necessarily pin a number on. Even if I do pin a number on, it's not really to raise, it's just, uh, you know, an excuse to ride with some people and have some rest areas where I can get free food along the way, [00:58:21] Track 1: Yeah. [00:58:22] steve: of having to fill up my water bottles in a creek somewhere. So, um, but I don't know. I went to a, I went to a big gravel race, um, last spring and. It, it didn't look very accessible to me. You know, I saw a lot of people pulling up in Sprinter vans with a couple, you know, $8,000 bikes on the back bumper and, you know, the carbon wheels and, you know, there was a nice dinner out and it was during Covid, so everybody was eating outside and they had the streets blocked off. We're all sitting out on the tables on the street. And, uh, it was, it was kind of fun. It reminded me of, you know, no racing from back in the day. But, uh, but then, but then, yeah, I'm looking around and I'm seeing a lot of pretty well-healed middle class [00:59:06] Track 1: Yep. [00:59:07] steve: people with nice cars and carbon bikes, with carbon wheels and a whole lot of money invested. And I'm like, I, [00:59:15] Track 1: Well, and [00:59:16] steve: accessibility of this. [00:59:17] Track 1: well, and, and yes, that absolutely exists. And that's a, that's a perfectly fine thing. Um, you know, there's, there's a place for everybody. I, I think what I'm referring to more is, well, one, what you're describing as like going out solo or with some friends and, you know, going out on the road, leaving from your back door and then going out on adventure and like experiencing your area from a different vantage point. Um, there's also kind of along those lines, uh, the bike packing phenomenon, which to some degree is a little bit like the s u V phenomenon, that people are buying bikes that they could go bike packing with, um, but not necessarily doing it, but you, but you see more and more of that people doing an overnight or a couple days or something. [00:59:57] steve: Mm. [00:59:58] Track 1: but then lots of just, uh, at least here in New England, I've been to a few very kind of small, intimate types of events. Maybe you have a, a couple hundred people show up and there's a, a, you know, a, a wood fired, um, uh, pizza oven going and, you know, local, uh, brewery supporting, and it's to support, uh, some local cause and maybe they have a podium. Um, but, but not really. It's like, that's not the point [01:00:26] steve: Yeah. Yeah, it's interesting. I think, uh, the whole, the way the competition goes, um, you know, I don't know how many people are interested in the, and even, uh, from a spectator point of view in the racers, I, I, a few people are, I mean, we [01:00:44] Track 1: It's, it's not, it's not super interesting [01:00:47] steve: right? I mean, I, I'm a nerd. I mean, I'll, I'll, man, I, last week was, I, I was watching Melan, I mean, not Melan. Perry Neese and Toreno Rko, you know, back to back every morning. I mean, I'm a total bike race nerd. I love it. You know, I did used to be the editor of T com, uh, and I couldn't even tell you who the top gravel racers are, you know, in the US and I don't know how many people care. I know, you know, we at outside@beonnews.com and cycling tips.com. We write a bit about that. Betsy Welch is doing a great job, but, I, I don't know how many, you know, I'm, I'm interested in doing gravel events. I'm interested in the gravel equipment. when I hear about an event, I think, oh, that might be nice to go to some year. I'd like to do that and see what it's like to ride in that part of the country on those kind of roads. Uh, but do I want to read, uh, a 2000 word interview with the guy that won the pro race? Uh, maybe not. I dunno. [01:01:55] Track 1: I'm, I'm with you. I think that the, um, the more interesting story is the, the story of your own experience of the events. You know, you go and you do something that is long and maybe has some technical sections, and you are, um, linking up with different groups along the way, unlike, say, a, a cross-country race. Um, so cross-country race, you tend to be, you know, it's a, it's a time trial in which you have some people in the way sometimes, um, and road, [01:02:20] steve: in the way. [01:02:21] Track 1: yeah. and then Ro [01:02:23] steve: usually the one that's in the way of some other people, but yeah. [01:02:26] Track 1: Yeah. Um, that, that was my discipline back in the day. Uh, but with gravel, you have, I mean, uh, I know quite a few people, myself included. At this point. I'm no longer. I no longer do these events to compete, I do it as a way of connecting with folks, like being out on a ride and you end up just, uh, linking up with different groups and having this kind of shared ordeal of slogging up that hill with a group or riding into the wind with another group and, you know, making friends along the way. And those are the types of dynamics that, you know, I have, I haven't done a ton of the, um, you know, the, the big, the big banner events for, you know, gravel series and so on. Uh, but those are the dynamics that I'm seeing at the, again, these more intimate, local types of events that I think when I talk about accessibility, that's, that's where, um, my heart is, you know, things that are much more about bringing people together and, and providing a shared experience, a platform for a shared experience that people, uh, find, um, meaningful and not just a competition. [01:03:28] steve: Yeah. And just from a, you know, from an event point of view, just the practicality of it now. I mean, we're, we're, we're losing paved roads where we can have a race. I mean, even just watching, watching the two races in Europe last week, how, how many of 'em they have to go through these damn traffic circles? I mean, the, the last 10 kilometers are scary now cause there's a, there's a traffic circle every five blocks. [01:03:51] Track 1: Yeah, [01:03:52] steve: uh, all these, you know, the road furniture is just getting worse and worse. And that's been happening in the for years. You know, there's all sorts that had to be canceled just because of all the development and the traffic and road designs make it impossible. The road there anymore. [01:04:08] Track 1: yeah, [01:04:09] steve: mogul Bismark circuit outside of Boulder is just unable now. Because of all the traffic circles [01:04:16] Track 1: yeah. Um, Boulder's a very, boulder's a very particular place. Um, you've been there for how many years now? [01:04:25] steve: Uh, about 15. [01:04:27] Track 1: Yeah, uh, I haven't been going there quite that long, but, um, I did do the whole kind of dirt bag, private tier pro thing at one point. Um, so got to ride at a bunch of different places and obviously for my work, I'm traveling a fair amount and the, um, the number of strong riders you have where you are is pretty outstanding. It's kind of hard to go out on a ride and not cross paths with some past or current national champion or Olympian. Um, and you also have, um, unique in the US is some of the best bike infrastructure anywhere. And that actually to maybe we close up the conversation with, um, you know, you had talked about how. you know, we could say modal share, uh, the share of, uh, trips taken by bike or the number of bikes being sold, um, not just for recreation, but for utility. You know, e-bikes primarily fall into a utility, uh, space with the exception of, you know, some performance mountain bikes and so on. But the, uh, you were saying how Europe has seen far more adoption. Uh, what do you see as the differences between the European and US markets and, you know, the, the things that would have to happen here, uh, to see greater adoption of bicycles as a modality for, you know, not just, uh, enthusiast riders, but recreation and, and, you know, more importantly as a, I

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Andy Green - Resident Mix 1. EANP - Lysithea (Deepwibe Underground) 2. Forty Cats - A Spoon of Honey (Michael A Remix) (Mango Alley) 3. Influence - Spiritual Lights (Paul Hamilton Remix) (Soundteller Records) 4. Jody Barr feat. Felicia Douglass - Accidental Lovers (Ezequiel Arias Edit) (White) 5. Sebas Ramos - Consideration (Thomas Benji Remix) (Mystic Carousel Records) 6. Luke Brancaccio & Gai Barone - Silvia's Calling (Artche Remix)(Music To Die For) 7. Matan Caspi & Angie Be - Inflamed (Outta Limits) 8. Stereo Underground & Leo Ferro - East of Eden (Club Mix) (ILINX) 9. Banco de Gaia - Heliopolis (Framewerk Rewerk) (Capital Heaven) 10. Julian Wassermann - Faro (Balance Music) 11. Romrez - Salvation (PlattenBank) 12. Soel - Shadows That We Cast (Bedrock) Part 2 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Gorkiz, Matias Ocano - The Missing Link (Transensations Records) 2. Victor Crain - Feijoa (3rd Avenue) 3. Forty Cats - Paradise Bay (YOMO Records) 4. Talal - Composite (Deepwibe Underground) 5. Ruben Karapetyan - Meteorite (SLC-6 Music) 6. GMJ, Matter - Metanoia (Replug) 7. Marway - Tohil (NOIYSE PROJECT Remix) (onedotsixtwo) 8. Gavin Rochford - Lustre (onedotsixtwo) 9. Sinan Arsan, Hobin Rude - Counting Backwards (onedotsixtwo) 10. Rauschhaus - Mindworm (Ruben Karapetyan Remix) (Mango Alley) 11. Kasey Taylor, Amega - Impressions (Stereo Underground & D-Nox Remix) (Vapour Recordings)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Hermanez - Intel (Mooizo) 2. Rudra - Samsara (Greg Tomaz Remix) (AH Digital) 3. Orticaan - Breathe Again (Arcedian) 4. Robin Thurston - Crimson (BC2) 5. Simon Vuarambon - Meco (Moments) 6. Federico Flores - Big Bang (Gabo Martin Remix) (SL6-C Music) 7. GMJ - Stage Flight (Jiminy Hop Remix) (Meanwhile) 8. Ruben Karapetyan - 32 Days & One Week (Mango Alley) 9. Ary Garay - Hound (Monuloku Remix) (AH Digital) 10. Orticaan - Periphery (Arcedian) 11. Brian De Santis - Warburton's Madness (Mike Hiratzka Remix) (AH Digital) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Will DeKeizer - Bend Time (Plattenbank) 2. Billka - Promises (Meanwhile Horizons) 3. Mike Rish - Tunnel People (Lost & Found) 4. TOKUMORI - Ovni (Deepwibe Digital) 5. Michael A - Resurgence (Proton Music) 6. Greene - Petrichor (Traum) 7. Agustin Pietrocola - Random (Genesis Music) 8. Kabi & Ric Niels - Kimica (Replug) 9. Ewan Rill - Behind the City (MNL) 10. Dimitry Molosh - Shining (Proportion) 11. Ivan Aliaga - Simetrica (Meanwhile)

When was the last time you spend outdoors and connect to nature? In this episode of the Happy Hustle Podcast, I chat with Robin Thurston, the CEO, and founder of Outside Interactive, Inc., the world's leading creator of outdoor content and experiences. Robin and I talk about the correlation between getting outside and its impact on mental health & wellness and entrepreneurship. Formerly known as Pocket Outdoor Media, Robin acquired Outside Magazine in 2021 along with other brands like OutsideTV, athleteReg, GaiaGPs, Pinkbike, ROAM Media and others.   With a mission to Get Everyone Outside, it is the leading platform for outdoor activity and home to 80 million of the most active consumers in the world by creating an experience for both longtime adventurers and those just getting started.   Before joining Outside, Robin ran a consumer genetics company called Helix in Silicon Valley, and co-founded and built MapMyFitness into one of the world's largest open fitness tracking platforms.   If you want to fuel your adventures, you can subscribe at https://www.outsideonline.com/outsideplus/   In this episode, we cover:   [00:02:21:10] Prioritize The Key Areas in Your Life[00:09:43:15] Biggest Advice to Entrepreneurs[00:23:02:20] How to Overcommunicate Effectively[00:43:51:07] Create Balance In Your Life[00:35:17:24] Happy Hustle Hacks [Health, Money, Entrepreneurship, Spirituality][00:41:14:15] Rapid-fire questions What does Happy Hustlin mean to you?  Robin says you definitely got to put in the work you got to grind. You gotta you know, put in the effort every single day, going back to the compounding discussion, but it comes with balance like if you lose it, you can't hustle if you're you know on your back or you know you have mentally blown up, so like it is about creating balance and remembering other things that are important in your life. Connect with Robinhttps://www.instagram.com/tourmalet2032/https://www.facebook.com/robin.thurstonhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/robinthurston/ Connect with Cary!https://www.instagram.com/cary__jack/https://www.facebook.com/SirCaryJackhttps://www.linkedin.com/in/cary-jack-kendzior/https://twitter.com/thehappyhustlehttps://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFDNsD59tLxv2JfEuSsNMOQ/featured  Get a free copy of his new book,  The Happy Hustle, 10 Alignments to Avoid Burnout & Achieve Blissful Balance https://www.thehappyhustlebook.com/  Sign up for The Journey: 10 Days To Become a Happy Hustler Online Course http://www.thehappyhustle.com/JourneyApply to the Montana Mastermind Epic Camping Adventure https://caryjack.com/montana “It's time to Happy Hustle, a blissfully balanced life you love, full of passion, purpose, and positive impact!” Episode Sponsor Did you know that 4 out of 5 Americans are magnesium deficient?  And almost everyone is at suboptimal levels. And that's a big problem because magnesium is involved in more than 600 biochemical reactions in our body. Now here's what most people DON'T know: taking just any magnesium supplement won't solve your problem because most supplements use the cheapest kinds that your body can't use or absorb. That's why I exclusively recommend Magnesium Breakthrough. It's the only full-spectrum magnesium supplement with 7 unique forms of magnesium that your body can actually use and absorb. When you get all 7 critical forms of magnesium, pretty much every function in your body gets upgraded... from your brain... to your sleep... pain, and inflammation...and less stress. Here comes the best part: the makers of Magnesium Breakthrough - BiOptimizers - are having an incredible Black Friday special offer from November 21st to 29th. You can get - not only Magnesium Breakthrough - but all of BiOptimizers best in class products with 25% off. BiOptimizers only offers this discount once a year, so don't miss out. Just go to http://www.bioptimizers.com/happy and enter code happy10 to get 25% off any order.   I assure you that all BiOptimizers supplements are best in class. If for some reason you feel differently, you can get a full refund, no questions asked. They are so confident that they offer a 365-day money-back guarantee!

On this week's episode of StreamTime co-hosts Nick Meacham and Chris Stone are joined by Sophie Goldschmidt, chief executive of US Ski & Snowboard (USSS), and Outside chief executive Robin Thurston.  The discussion explores on how NGBs can align their media goals with sustainability, while also focusing on grassroots development and participation. Talking points: • Challenges for NGBs like USSS in broadcast (2:58) • What is Outside Interactive? - (8:32) • How did the USSS and Outside partnership come together? - (12:22) • The role of membership and community in content distribution - (24:01) • Grassroots growth content - (32:10) • Looking back at the World Surf League broadcast deal with Facebook - (42:23) • Early signs of success and growing the platform - (48:12)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Jon Gravy - Mmxx Earth (Gravy Trax) 2. Rohne - Phase (Rohne) 3. Borneo - Trying (Ommage) 4. Mr. Sosa - Orion (Viceworks Records) 5. Mona Yim - Gotta Do This, Gurl (Radio Slave Remix) (Rekids) 6. Chevals - Afterparty (Dansu Discs) 7. Mr. Sosa - Feel the Love (Viceworks Records) 8. NOHA - Draw (A Beautiful Place) 9. Sean McClellan & David McGiverin - Piddling (Ranj Kaler Remix) (Capital Heaven) 10. Selsi - Dust (Framewerk Remix) (Capital Heaven) 11. Fur Coat & Avidus - Fading Borders (Fur Coat Breaks Version) (Balance Music) 12. Cortese - SPU1 (Time Is Now Records) 13. Jamie Stevens - Transference (Music To Die For) 14. Awe Kid - Converge (Atomnation) 15. Haider - Levitate (Aus Music) 16. Tibasko - Isolate (Another Rhythm) 17. Zoo Look - Release (Permanent Vacation) 18. Mia Mendi - Comfort in the Void (Renaissance Records) 19. Swoose - Breathe (Kessler Remix) (Feel My Bicep) 20. Ranj Kaler - Dreams (Ranj Kaler Rework) 21. Lapalux - Earth (Amnioverse) 22. Mild Minds - VIEWS (Laurence Guy Remix) (Counter Records) 23. Pearson Sound - Red Sky (Hessle Audio) 24. Flume feat. Emma Louise - Hollow (Logic1000 Remix) (Transgressive Records / Co-op) 25. Swoose - Brepo (Full Circle Mix) (Permanent Vacation) 26. Otus, Lawrence Hart - Drift (Echorex) Part 2 (2hrs) - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Lila Rose (UY) - Distant (AH Digital) 2. Bondarev & Dowden - Tranquility (Ruben Karapetyan Remix) (One Of A Kind) 3. Dowden & Forty Cats - Airtime (Juicebox Music) 4. Lopezhouse - Motorstellar (Brigado Crew Remix) (Bedrock Records) 5. Gaston Ponte - Dark Side (Peter Dundov Remix) (Particles) 6. Jamie Stevens - CDX5 (Vapour Recordings) 7. Ivan Aliaga - Futura (Meanwhile) 8. Weird Sounding Dude - Fallen Poet (Movement Recordings) 9. Rick Pier O'Neil, Paul Hamilton - Heaven's Gate (Andrea Cassino Remix) (Univack) 10. Deeinagi - Malestrom (Univack) 11. Braxton, Jody Wisternoff & James Grant - SpaceTime (Ezequiel Arias Extended Remix) (Anjunadeep)

Join host Freddie Laker as he welcomes guest Robin Thurston discuss about How To Overcome Challenges With Mental Toughness & Leadership

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Andre Moret - Macttos (One Of A Kind) 2. Aubrey Fry & Four Candles - Solar Deep (Extended Mix) (Sommersville Records) 3. Dimuth K - The Shaman (Proton Music) 4. Nick Stoynoff - Some Days Are Better Than Others (Sudbeat Music) 5. DAVI - Mirage (Crosstown Rebels) 6. Robin Thurston - Cobalt (BC2) 7. Mike Griego - Dysbiosis (Replug) 8. Agustin Pietrocola - The End (Deepwibe Underground) 9. GMJ & Matter - Ext 135 (Meanwhile) 10. Chär Spinelli - Quis Ut Deus (Leandro Jaime Remix) (AH Digital) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Will DeKeizer - Osmosis (Sudbeat Music) 2. Ewan Rill - Lost (Shambhala Music) 3. Thomas Ferell - Burn Your Emotion (Deepwibe Digital) 4. Mango, Phonic Youth, Meeting Molly - Iceland (Meanwhile Horizons) 5. Navar - Return of the Sun (Meanwhile) 6. Leandro Murua - Bye Bye (Soundteller Records) 7. Miro - Paradise (Glenn Morrison, Jurek Przezdziecki Remix) (Fall From Grace Records) 8. Rick Pier O'Neil & Echo Daft - God's Garden (Sudbeat Music) 9. Paul Deep (AR) - Amenotejikara (Sudbeat Music) 10. Agustin Pietrocola - Hold (Intro Mix) (Deepwibe Underground) 11. Abity - Stripped (Meeting Molly Remix) (Mango Alley) 12. Michael A & Seyah - Otherside (Genesis Music) 13. Tomas Garcia - Erso (Deepwibe Digital) 14. GMJ & Matter - Ext 135 (Meanwhile) 15. Talal - Drift (Sudbeat Music) 16. Kostya Outta & Bodai - Imagine (Dmitry Molosh Remix) (Deepwibe Underground) 17. OT Quartet - Hold That Sucker Down (Quivver & Blades Extended Mix) (Champion) 18. East Cafe - When Chaos Ends (Extended Mix) (Pure Progressive) 19. Michael A - Aurum (Genesis Music) 20. Randle - Trust - Randle (Balkan Connection) 21. Marcelo Vassal & Figueras - Chaotic (Plattenbank) 22. Aname - Inochi (Spectrum (NL)) 23. DAVI - Nosferatu (Crosstown Rebels) 24. Brian Cid - Message X (Infinite Depth) 25. Julian Wassermann & Modeplex - Reactive (Renaissance Records) 26. D-Nox & Beckers - Control (James Harcourt Remix) (Mango Alley) 27. Rich Curtis - Baby Raver (All Tears Edition) (Balance Music) 28. Hunter/Game - Voices (Just This) 29. Stereo Underground - Shaharit (Sprout) 30. Jeremy Olander - Graincluster (Watergate Records) 31. Spencer Brown, Ezequiel Arias - Mad Rush (Sudbeat Music) 32. Hernan Cattaneo & Soundexile - Survivor (Renaissance Records) 33. Jamie Stevens - Transference (Chable & Mangan's Tranceference Remix) (Music To Die For) 34. BT - Mercury & Solace (Helsloot Extended Remix) (Black Hole Recordings) 35. Sasha - Trigonometry (Watergate Records) 36. Bedrock - Heaven Scent (M.O.D.E Remix) (Bedrock) 37. Matter - Pacha Mama (Meanwhile)

In this week's episode, cycling journalist and former CyclingTips Editor-in-Chief Caley Fretz joins Randall to discuss cycling's changing media landscape, the economic headwinds facing professional journalists, emerging models for supporting quality reporting and story-telling, and how the meaning of cycling changes as one pedals through life. Also: press-fit bottom brackets, hookless road rims, and too-stiff components and frames. Episode sponsors: Thesis Bike and Logos Components  Support the Podcast Join The Ridership  Links to Caley's work: The Road to Nairo's House: https://cyclingtips.com/2018/01/the-road-to-nairos-house/ The Teaching Toe Strap: https://www.velonews.com/news/road/the-toe-strap/ Tales From The Tour: The Rest Day Pose: https://cyclingtips.com/2018/07/tales-from-the-tour-the-rest-day-pose/ Automated Transcription, please excuse the typos: [00:00:00] Craig Dalton: Hello and welcome to the gravel ride podcast. I'm your host Craig Dalton. This week on the show, I'm handing the microphone off to my co-host Randall Jacobs. Who's got veteran cycling journalists, Kaylee frets on the pod. To discuss some of the challenges and opportunities facing cycling journalism. You may know Kaylee from his work as editor in chief, over at cycling tips. And prior to that over at Velo news, both publications have undergone some downsizing of late. The economic headwinds facing professional journalists. Our strong, particularly in the cycling world. If we want to have quality reporting and storytelling. A new model needs to emerge. I don't know where this is all gonna end up, but I was super excited that Kaylee agreed to join Randall on the podcast. To just get his perspective and to get into some good old fashioned by geekery. Before we jump in we need to thank this week sponsors from thesis and logos components As many of you know, I'm a long time it's thesis. OB one rider for a limited time thesis is offering $500 off a thesis, OB one with access custom wireless shifting, and your choice of high-end carbon wheels. It's a bike that I can personally attest, stands up to every other carbon bike out there on the market at a really great price. One of the things that I've always appreciated about thesis is that they allow. A unique level of customization. So if you want size appropriate cranks down to, I think 160 or 165 millimeters, you can do that. You can get your stem size, you can customize everything. Based on a free one-on-one consult. So go check out thesis.bike, or contact. Hello at thesis stoplight to get started. I also want to give a shout out to logos components. Logos just receive huge recognition from bike packing.com and was awarded the gear of the year award for the wheelset category in 2022. You might recall an episode. We did a while back on how to choose a gravel wheel set, where Randall went through detail by detail on the design considerations When constructing a carbon wheelset I encourage you to listen to that as it provided a lot of riders with reflection on what they were looking for and what all the different things were, all logos wheels are built on proven open standards with non-proprietary components and with a manufacturing precision. That rivals anybody in the industry, the wheels are backed by Logus is five-year warranty, lifetime at-cost incident protection. And a US-based warehouse and support team to keep you rolling for many years to come. So head on over to logos components.com and use the code community free shipping all one word to take advantage of a free shipping offer. With that business behind us I'm going to pass the microphone back over to randall and his conversation with kaylee frets [00:03:06] Randall R. Jacobs: It's been quite a bit. I think I last saw you at Sea Otter. How have you been? What's going on in your world? [00:03:11] Caley Fretz: Well, I'm unemployed as of November 15th. I mean, yeah, let's just, we can get that one right outta the way. Right. I was part of the layoffs at Outside Inc. To be somewhat differentiated from Outside Magazine for anybody out there. I mean, outside Inc. Does own outside magazine, but it also owns lots and lots of other things. Yeah, myself the editor-in-Chief of Venu as well and two of the CT staff, two really core CT staff. Matt, our managing editor, and Dave Rome, one of our tech editors and, and kinda a legend in space. We're all let go on the same day on November 15th. So I am currently super fun employed and I think after we chat today, I'm probably gonna go skiing cuz it's snowing up in the mountains right now. And so I'm, I'm somewhat enjoying myself. But, you know, fun employment brings with it some level of stress as well, . So that's, that's how I'm doing right now. Yeah. [00:03:59] Randall R. Jacobs: Well, and I appreciate you sharing. I think last we rode together. You were still living in Boulder and you've since moved to beautiful Durango. When was that move? [00:04:07] Caley Fretz: That was shortly after we had our, our first child. My wife grew up here and, and we have grandparents here to help with childcare and all the rest. And we just wanted to get off the front range. No offense to the front range. There's too many people and there's fewer people here. And I can go skiing 18 minutes from here, from my door, and I can't really complain about that. [00:04:27] Randall R. Jacobs: Housing costs are probably a little bit less bonkers out that way as well. I was in Denver and particularly Boulderer lately, and it is nuts. [00:04:34] Caley Fretz: it's a little bit better here, although not as, Not as good as it was four or five years ago. It, it, it's a zoom town, right? So in the last couple years it has, it's gone up like 28% or something ridiculous in, in 2021. We love it here. It's amazing. Durango, the bike community here is, is unbelievable. The mountain biking is unbelievable. And there's nobody that, you have not as many people to share all the trails with. So I, we like that bit of it as well. [00:04:59] Randall R. Jacobs: Very, very cool. And so let's just dive into, cuz, cuz I've been curious share a bit about your background. So I, I've only known you as, you know, in your role as, as a journalist and editor at Cycling Tips. But how do you end up on this path? [00:05:13] Caley Fretz: Oh I mean, how far back do you want to go? I, I, I started racing mountain bikes at 12 or 13 years old. My dad was a cyclist. My dad was, I think one of the founding members of the Penn State cycling team, collegiate cycling team back in the day. So I grew up around bikes and I grew up around bike racing and watching the tour and all these things. And yeah, started racing when my family moved to Burlington, Vermont back in the day at Catamount Family Centers. Anybody who, yep. Very, very northeast connection. That's where I, that was all my youth. Yeah. Any, any any new [00:05:45] Randall R. Jacobs: and, and your dad is still in Vermont, if I recall [00:05:48] Caley Fretz: Yeah, yeah. He he actually just retired, but he, he used to run a small like sort of children's museum aquarium thing called Echo on the, on the waterfront in Burlington. And yeah so, so grew up, grew up racing, grew up around bikes, and went to school out here in Colorado. Mostly to ride by bike to, to ma major in bike racing, pre primarily . Much to my parents chagrin, I would say. And let's see what it, what would've been like junior year, summer in between junior and senior year of, of college. Shout out to a friend of mine, Brian Holcomb, who's still in, in the bike world basically came to me and was like, Hey, you should, you should be an intern at Be News. And so I did that and I, and I, I became an intern at Bean News and worked the summer there. And Ben Delaney was the editor-in-chief at the time, and Ben was, Ben was kind enough to bring me on in a, in a kind of part-time capacity that fall. and then it kind of just went from there. So, so yeah, a couple folks who were still floating around the bike world, I, I owe a lot to at this point. Ben and, and Brian and Zach Vest, who was sort of one of my first mentors and has been a, a marketing manager at Niner and a other, a Scott and a couple other places recently. Math yeah, and just kinda worked from there. So I was a tech editor at sort of tech writer at Be News for a couple years, tech editor at Be News for a couple years. And then kinda worked my way into bigger and broader beats basically, and, and kind of stepped into the racing space a little bit more. Became, I think it was like think it was senior editor or whatever the title was at the end of my, my Bella News tenure which was 2017 which is when Wade Wallace got in touch from cycling tips and he was actually just looking for a person to fill a somewhat similar role, kind of like a features writer do a bit of everything kind of writer. And I loved the idea. I loved cycling tips. I loved the brand. I loved everything that stood for, I loved the fact that it was kinda an up and comer and I had been at Villa News long enough that I was just was looking for a change basically. And so I, I jumped ship from one to the other, from Helen News to ct. Remained really good friends with lots of folks at, at vn particularly guys like Andrew Hood who had done a bunch of Tour de France with and things like that. It's like no hard feelings in that, in that jump. Just wanted something new. And within about a year of that for a number of different reasons Wade had promoted me to editor-in-chief at ct. So that was around 20, mid middle of 2018. And it was an interesting time kind of from a business perspective cuz it was near the end of a period when, when CT was owned by bike Exchange in Australia and we were about to be purchased by Pink Bike. And with all of that happening and then in particular with the purchase from Pink Bike we got a bunch more resource and really could expand into what I think most people probably know, cycline tips as now or maybe we'll say six months ago what they knew it as up, up until quite recently. And yeah. I'm trying to think this, there's not my time. My my time as EIC of, of CIP is, is obviously I think what most listeners out there would probably know, if not of me, then you at least know CIP and you know what we were trying to do there. [00:08:52] Randall R. Jacobs: I know how much grief there is out there for, that core team having been broken up. A lot of people, myself included, who value the perspective that you bring to the industry. It's not simply you know, flipping press releases which, you know, there's a place for like, there's, you know, some people that's, they wanna see what the press releases are but doing really interesting journalism. One of your colleagues Ian tralo, he's done some interesting pieces on Central Asian despots in their role in cycling and on the Afghan women's cycling team. And the controversy with how the UCI was prioritizing getting certain members of that team and the organization out of Afghanistan when the US was backing out. Like, this is not your standard bike industry journalism. And that's an angle that I think is going to be very much missed in the vacuum that's created by your departure and the departure of others from that team. [00:09:42] Caley Fretz: Yeah. It's a sad thing. I think the overwhelming emotion for a lot of us is, is just sadness because we spend a lot of time building this thing and a lot of time and energy and effort and, and yeah. No blood, but probably some sweat and tears in there. And yeah, and it feels that's just sad. You know, I. I enjoyed my time there tremendously. I enjoyed working with people like Ian, with James Huang, with Dave, who got laid off alongside me. It was just a really, I can't say it was massively surprising giving a number of things that I can't actually talk about. But I I, oh, I am still very saddened by it. Yeah, I mean, it's not gonna be what it was because a bunch of the people are gone like that, that, that I can say . Yeah. [00:10:28] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. Now, remind me, when did James join the team? Because he, he's someone I've admired for years [00:10:33] Caley Fretz: yeah. He, he joined a, I think about 18 months before I did. So when, when bike exchange, when, when Wade first sold a, a large portion of cycling tips to bike exchange that was sort of the first. Let's say capital infusion that, that the company got. And a lot of that was used to pick up kind of high profile folks, particularly in the United States which is what's sort of their next, the next market that, that Wade wanted to go after. So that was, they picked up James and they picked up Neil Rogers in the us as well as some other folks like, like Shane Stokes in the uk or Ireland, I believe he is right now. Yeah, so, so that was all a little bit before I got there. And part of my, sort of what they asked me to do, what Wade asked me to do when, when I became editor in chief was to figure out exactly how to best use people like James, who do phenomenal work. I mean, I, I, I maintain to this day that the three-person team, the three-person tech team that, that we had at Zeman Tips over the last year which would be James and Dave Rome and Ronan McLaughlin in Ireland as well. Was the best anywhere in cycling media? There's no, there's no question in my mind about that. And so basically trying to figure out how to steer that talent was one of the big things that I was tasked with doing over the last three, four years. [00:11:44] Randall R. Jacobs: Well, and you know, when you read a review from any of those team members that you're, you're getting it straight you know, for better or for worse for the brands that are at the mercy of, of that team. But honestly, it keeps the industry honest. And I recall early in my career in the bike particularly James' writing be being something that I referenced constantly. And in fact, when I was at one of the big players, if I needed to make an argument, I would oftentimes grab an article from someone like him to bring to the argument like, no press fit is not acceptable. And we're gonna spend the extra money and add the weight, and we're gonna tell a story about how a two piece thread together is a better solution. And honestly, it's a solution to fix what was broken when you went, you know, but that's, that's a, that's a, a hobby horse that I think we've all been riding for some time. [00:12:29] Caley Fretz: love hearing that though. I, I genuinely love hearing that because I mean, oh, first of all, James would also love hearing that. He'd be very proud of that fact. I think and yeah, like we, we know that that was the case, right? I mean, we, we the three of us have been making a, a podcast called Nerd Alert for, for, for the last year and a half or two years or whatever. And I got a fair number of, of Less than pleased emails off the back of, of that podcast. Cause we were quite honest in our assessment of what we thought was happening in the industry. And in particular, like I haven't been a tech editor for. Eight, nine years. I'm just a cyclist at this point. But Dave and James are so deep inside it and think they spend so much of their lives thinking about that stuff that yeah. You, you can't ignore their opinions, right? You absolutely can't ignore their opinions. And I think that's, that's a testament to one, the fact that they do their research. And two the fact that they've been right a number of times. And like over the years, I would say that CT is, was known as the anti press fit media outlet, right? Which is like, there are worse things to be associated with, I think, than hating on creaky bottom brackets. Like, who, who wouldn't wanna hate 'em? Creaky bottom brackets. That makes perfect sense to me. [00:13:33] Randall R. Jacobs: Well, and it, and it's deeper than just a creaky bottom bracket. It's detracting from this experience that we are all so passionate about. And so, I think that having someone out there who has influence saying no, this is not the way it should be. Hear the arguments and, and, you know, let a case be made. Hey, you know, come on the podcast and talk about why you think press fit is, is the best way to go about it if you really wanna make that case. But yeah, it's an approach that I, you know, I, I'll take you up on it, but I, I'd probably be on the same side with you on more or less every issue with the exception of maybe a few nuances here and there. But yeah, actually let's have some fun with this. Other stuff other than press fit bottom brackets that would be your hill to die on. [00:14:15] Caley Fretz: well. So actually Dave Ro and I so reminder, Dave Ro and I were both just recently laid off. And so our free, we, we are free to do whatever we want. I don't have a non-compete or anything like that. Right. So, we've kicked, we've kicked off a little podcast and. [00:14:28] Randall R. Jacobs: What is it called? [00:14:29] Caley Fretz: It's called, [00:14:29] Randall R. Jacobs: do people find it? [00:14:30] Caley Fretz: well at the moment it's called the redundant placeholders because we have no idea what to call it. So if you search it, I think any of the, any of the podcast platforms, if you search redundant placeholders, able to find it, you can also find it on, on any of my social channels. I'm at K Fretz on everything cause I'm the only person on the planet with my name. So that's very handy. Anyway David and I were talking about like, okay, so if we were actually literally talking about this yesterday, which is why it's funny that you bring up bottom brackets. Like if, if the bottom bracket the anti press fit bandwagon was the one that we were leading before, what's our, what's our new thing that we get to hate on? And we've actually decided that one of the things that we're most interested in pushing, and if you listen to the episode from this week, you would, you would hear this is bikes that are too stiff and just stuff that's too stiff. So specifically Dave, this, this week brought up the topic of of handlebars that are just like, Way too stiff. Right? Just, just ridiculously stiff. We were talking about the, the 35 mill trend on in mountain bikes, which I hate. And like, I've got a, you know, I've got a giant, I've got a giant trail bike with 170 Mill fork, and then I wanna stick like a, just a two by four in my hands. I don't really understand why I want to do that. And I've ended up with like, like more sort of hand cramp and hand pain on this bike than I've ever had previously. And it's got more travel than any bike that I've, I've had previously. So that, those two things don't really line up in, in my head, right? And, and so Dave and I were basically talking about pushing, pushing back on this need for for stiffer and stiffer and stiffer and stiffer all the time. And the fact that a lot of us don't need that, or really don't want it either. Not only do we not need it, we really don't want it because it makes the broad experience worse. I told a little story about how one of the best bikes I've ever ridden was a not particularly expensive mazzi steel frame, steel fork, steel frame. Then I put a pair of zip 3 0 3 carbon wheels on, so nice, nice light stiff wheel set with a somewhat flexi bike, flexi fork, flexi flexi frame. But it rode like an absolute dream, you know, 27 2 post it might have even had, it might have even not had oversized bars. I can't remember. This is, this is like eight, nine years ago now. And I loved it. I absolutely loved this bike. It, it, it got up and went when I asked it to, and I think the wheel set made a huge difference in, in that. But then it, it cornered like an absolute dream and it was comfortable and it was, it was just beautiful. And it was a, a not particularly expensive steel mozzie, right? Like . So that's, that's, that's the that's the high horse upon which we find ourselves now. The fight for less stiff. Bicycles, I think is what we're gonna go after next. [00:17:06] Randall R. Jacobs: Well, and you can kind of take that a step further, talking about steel frames, for example. If you get a steel frame, even a, a pretty decent steel frame at say o e m cost is going to be quite a bit less than a monocot carbon frame. And you don't have all the tooling costs and everything else, and you can change the geometry if you need to without having to retool. And those bikes are gonna be inherently more affordable at the same time. And unless you're an elite racer who's having to sprint off the line or so on, you know, you either spend less money for an equivalent bike that suits your needs well and is comfortable, or you spend the same money and you put it into say, better wheels. You don't get the cheap out wheels with the three Paul hubs that fall apart and in a year and what have you. Yeah, that's one I'll join you on. [00:17:46] Caley Fretz: So that, so [00:17:47] Randall R. Jacobs: right. So I'm joining the battalion. What? [00:17:50] Caley Fretz: That's what we're pushing from [00:17:51] Randall R. Jacobs: I've got another one for you. And, and this, this one I don't think you'll disagree with cuz we talked about sea otter hooks, bead hooks. So bead bead hooks on any real wheels that are marketed for use with road tubeless. [00:18:05] Caley Fretz: I, yeah. I, I don't feel like I am, I, I like having this conversation with James or Dave around because they know the actual technical reasons. You, yourself probably in the same boat. You know, the actual tech technical reasons why this is, this is a, a terrible idea or a good idea, I guess if, if you're talking other direction. I just know that as a, essentially, like I am kind of just a consumer these days, right? Like I said, I, I, I have not been a tech editor. It has not been my job to follow. Bicycle technology for close to a decade now. So I'm basically just a, a, a heavily invested consumer who pays, you know, quite close attention, right? And as a heavily invested consumer, I cannot figure out if my wheels and tires are going to kill me at the moment. And I think that that is not really an acceptable way forward. I don't , I don't think that that should be allowed in the cycling space. And I, and I, every single time I say that, I get a bunch of hook list aficionados coming back at me saying that, oh, it's quite easy. This works with this and this. I'm like, yeah, but I, I, as a person who does not want to go through a bunch of like charts to figure out what tire to run, I don't want that. Just put hooks back on my rims. I don't care about the 40 grams or whatever. It's, I just don't care. [00:19:14] Randall R. Jacobs: Well, would you like some more ammo for those arguments when they come up? [00:19:17] Caley Fretz: give me more. Am. [00:19:18] Randall R. Jacobs: All right. So, so first off the, it used to be the case that it was a substantial, you know, a reasonable weight penalty and higher cost that is substantially mitigated by new forming techniques for the bead hooks and mini hooks that you can create that have the same impact resistance as hook list, add about five, maybe 10 grams per rim at the high end. And cost, yeah, the cost is a little bit higher, but, you know, insurance premiums aren't cheap either. And if you have a single incident, that's gonna be a problem. So, you know, it was an obvious investment when we made that choice for any wheel that we're marketing for use with anything, say smaller than a 34. Plus you get the compatibility with non tules as you well know. But the other part is you think about the fact that there are compatibility charts that exist, right? [00:20:05] Caley Fretz: I don't want [00:20:06] Randall R. Jacobs: that [00:20:06] Caley Fretz: in charts. [00:20:08] Randall R. Jacobs: yeah. It, it's like if that is the case, then maybe the tolerances are too tight and it, it's actually, I'll tell you from the inside, it, it's actually worse than that because any good company is going to check every single rim for its bead seat circumference, right? So those are pretty easy to get within spec. And then the tires, the tires are not all checked. To my knowledge. They're kind of randomly checked. So, okay, now you, now you could have a variation. You only need one. That's not to tolerance, but let's say both of those are in are intolerance. Well, now you have the. and if the tape is too thick or too thin, or someone puts two layers on, they replace the tape or whatever. Maybe it was intolerance initially, but, and then you change it and you know, you do two layers. Now the bead is too tight, it wants to drop into the channel and then pop over the edge of the, of the hook. And so it's just not good. It's just all sorts of not good [00:21:03] Caley Fretz: I hate it so much. It's just, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I always, I was cognizant when, back in, when we were making the Nerd Alert podcast that, you know, we didn't just want to complain about things. Right? Like, we didn't just want to tell the industry that it was, it was doing things wrong. Cuz most of the time this industry does great things and they build lots of amazing bikes that I love to ride. There's just a couple things like this that are like, what, what are we doing? Like, is, is this, is this the beam counters? Is it the gram counters? What counters are, are causing ? This particular, it must be the bean counters at this point. But I hate it either [00:21:42] Randall R. Jacobs: Bean counter. And then, then also the, the marketing hypers. Right? So there's a new thing. Hopeless is a new thing. Car, car wheels don't have hooks. Why do bicycle school wheels have hooks? Well, you know, because it's 110 p s i that people are sometimes putting in there. That's why [00:21:57] Caley Fretz: car wheels have 33 Psi . Yeah. It's like a mountain bike tire. Yes. Well, I, we agree on that point. And I, I think that that is one that we will continue to complain about. And I will just continue to be annoyed that I, that I can't feel confident in what I'm writing without doing a bunch of, of searching and Google searching, and I don't want to have to do that. [00:22:15] Randall R. Jacobs: Nor should your average rider need to rely on that in order to be safe like that. That's the part that I find kind of, kind of bonkers. [00:22:23] Caley Fretz: Average rider doesn't even know to do that. That's the problem. [00:22:26] Randall R. Jacobs: yeah. True. And the la the last part of that is why do the tire pressure recommendation charts kind of go to 70 proportional with the weight and then they just kind of taper off. You know, that that also kind of tells you something about the confidence in this you know, particular combination of tire and rim and, and pressure and so on. But all right. Should we, well, I guess we hop off this high horse then. That was good fun. I could do this all day. So you mentioned Ben Delaney, and he's an interesting person to bring up because he's a, a mutual acquaintance. Also somebody who's writing, I've been reading since my early days in the industry and also somebody who has been trying to figure out how to navigate the changing landscape in cycling media, which the business model for, for media in general has undergone a dramatic shift. And in his case, he's has his new YouTube channel and is doing freelance work for certain publications and is making a go of it that way. But how would you describe the industry dynamics as having changed during your time in the media side? [00:23:29] Caley Fretz: Oh, I mean, I would say I was relatively insulated from it personally for a long time. And until I kind of reached a, a, a level of management, so to speak, that it became my problem , I didn't spend a whole lot of time thinking about it. Yeah, Ben was unfortunately the, the, the, the victim of a, an outside layoff a, a while ago. So he's been making a solo go of it since I think May or June of, of, of last year. Or this year, 2022. And yeah, like his, his he's experimenting and, and it's, it's good to, I like watching him trying to figure this out, right, because I feel like he's kind of doing it for all of us at the moment and, and trying to figure out exactly, you know, various ways to, to make this thing work and. He is, got his, his YouTube channel's. Great. I mean, I watch it all the time. I'm actually gonna be on it sometime soon. I just, just recorded a thing with him picking our favorite products of the year. I think I went in a slight, I think I went in a slightly different direction than, than probably most of his guests. Cause my favorite product was bar Mitz for my cargo bike. So slightly different place than, than probably a lot of folks he's talking to. But the, the media as a whole, I mean, it's rough out there. It's rough out there, right? Like I have spent an inordinate amount of time thinking about this and trying to figure this out over the last couple years as has like weighed my former boss at C T E before he left over the summer. As is everybody, I mean, frankly, like as is Robin Thurston the CEO of outside, right? Like he is genuinely trying to make this thing work. And at the moment as layoffs kind of. It's hard, right? It's really, really hard to, to get people to pay for something that they haven't had to pay for historically, you're, you're trying to put the genie back in the bottle, right? That's what we are trying to do. And it's really, really, really difficult. And then, frankly, it's one of the things we were most proud of at Cycline Tips is that we did have this core, hyper engaged audience that was willing to pay us for, for what we did. And not only just pay us for like, the content that they had access to, but pay us for the whole community that we had built. Right. I mean there, there's a, there's a Velo Club, which is the, the sort of membership program. Atip, there's a Slack group for Velo Club which I, which I'm concerned about right now. But that group of people, couple thousand people not, it's not the entirety of the membership. It's, it's like sort of the most hardcore of the membership, I would say. And it's a couple thousand people. It's sort of like its own little private forum, right? And, and they support each other and they ask each other questions, and they ask us questions asked, past tense, asked us questions. You know, when, when, when they had a tech question, they, they, they ping James and they had a racing question. They, they would, they would ping me or they would ping Matt e or something like that. And they would also just answer each other's questions. And they've built this, this incredible community there. That for me, underpins any successful, particularly sort of niche media or, or, or, or vertical media business. Because those are the people that not only are they giving you money to, to keep lights on, but they're, they're your, they're your biggest advocates, right? They're your, your most important advocates in the space. They're the people that, that tell their friends. They're the people that get other people signed up. They are, they're more important than any marketing spend you could, you could ever possibly utilize. Right? So that, that was one of the things we were really proud of the last couple years. And I think that that is a model in some ways for, for, for going forward. So, you know, like I said, I'm, I don't have a non-compete. I can start anything I want right now and, and I, and to be, to be very blunt, like I fully plan to I think that, [00:26:54] Randall R. Jacobs: think you absolutely should at this. You clearly have an audience that that misses your voice and that values what you brought to the table. [00:27:00] Caley Fretz: Yeah. And, and I would say it like, honestly, it's, it's even, it's less my voice and it's more like Dave Rome and Matt and like the rest of the crew because I, I, I do like to put, you know, put the folks that that were writing day, day in, day out for ct, like, well ahead of anything that I was doing. But I, I did spend more time than they did thinking about how to, how to build a media business. And so, yeah, I, you know, we wanna, we wanna, we wanna do something here. That there's it's only been a couple weeks since we were, we were. Let go. So we're still figuring out what the details are. But like I said, you know, we've already kicked off a little podcast. We know that there's a lot of people out there that are kind of waiting for this. And we will, we will just try to give them what they want, I guess. I mean, my, in my mind, the, ideal sort of media entity of the future and I, I've used this term a couple times with, with Dave in, in talking about these things is, is essentially an aggregation of niches or niches if, depending on which pronunciation you prefer. So rather than try to go really broad and talk about a little bit of everything, which, which tends to be kind of the model across most of cycling media, I prefer a concept where you, you essentially allow editors to. To dive into their, their interests and their strengths. Right? You know, you take, you take Dave Rome and you say, Dave, you love tools. You're real weirdo about it. But we appreciate your weirdness and we, we, we embrace it and, and do it. Like, tell me everything you can possibly tell me about tools, because I'm pretty sure there's an audience there. And even if it's not that big, even if it's a couple thousand people, if they are hyper engaged with you, a couple thousand people in a recurring membership model, recurring revenue model is enough to pay Dave plus some, right? And then you sort of, you take that concept and you, and you expand it out. And yeah, it's, it's, it becomes the basis by which you can build a, a, a media entity. That I think is, is sustainable. Not none, nothing I'm saying here is wholly original, right? Like this is the broadly the direction that a lot of different media entities are going. Anybody sort of follows that world. There's, there's like, there's a new politics site called S four that is essentially the same rough concept, right? You, you dive headlong into, into particular beats. You provide a ton of depth in those beats. You hit the, the audience, people who, who really care about that particular topic, and you pull that group in and then you do the same thing over here and you pull that group in, you do the same thing over here, and you pull that group in. And there's for sure people that care about more than one obviously. But you really, like, you focus really deep on each one of these things. And that's the, that's the, if I could build something and, and I, you know, like I said, I, I intend to try, that's the concept. I think that that makes the most sense to me from a. from a business perspective, from an editorial perspective, from from every perspective I can, I can think of, basically. [00:29:59] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah, so I've had folks like Russ Roca from PathLessPedaled. On the pod. He has a YouTube channel you may or may not be familiar with, but that's become his livelihood, right. And he has sustainers through Patreon. He doesn't do endorsements and things like that. I don't think he's doing any sort of sponsored episodes or anything of that sort. And he's been able to make a living. And there are obviously plenty of YouTuber influencer types who may have less scruples about promoting things and things of that sort. But who I'm curious, either within bike or, or outside a bike what projects do you see succeeding in the model that you could imagine emulating or building upon? Because I've seen a bunch of attempts at it and it's, it's a really tough nut to [00:30:43] Caley Fretz: it's a tough not to crack. I, I would say that the biggest and most obvious is the athletic, which was just purchased by the New York Times for something like, I think it was 425 million. Now, so the sort of caveat around that is that that's probably less than they were actually hoping for. This is a, a VC funded media entity that, that primarily covers ball sports. And their whole thing was you take, you, you, you essentially apply the beat reporter model of like a local newspaper. You know, you, you, the, the, the Denver Post for example, will have a Broncos beat reporter. Then all they do is talk about the Broncos, right? And, and they're even allowed to kind of be fans of the Broncos a little bit. They take that and they apply it to every single ball sport. So both types of football, you know, baseball, basketball, all the rest. And they apply a beat reporter to every major team. And sometimes more than one beat reporter to, to really big teams. You know, like if we're talking English, English Premier League you know, Manchester United has a couple different writers on it. Aston Villa has probably won, right? So, but, but, but even so, if you're a massive Aston Villa fan and you just want your Aston Villa News, you can go, you know that the athletics gonna have it cuz they have a person who is dedicated to your team and nothing else but your team. So you can also get like, okay, well I want some broader, I want World Cup news, I want, I want the Manchester United news. I want the Ronaldo news, but I really want my Aston Villa guy, right. That is essentially the same model that I'm talking about where like, I believe that people really want Dave Rome's tool. They probably also care about lots of other things that, that we will write about. But they really want Dave room's tool stuff. And that's probably the thing that's actually gonna get them across the line from a, from a membership perspective, right? Is that deep, deep, deep love of this one thing that a content creator they like is talking about. That's the kind of thing that, that, that moves the needle in. So yeah, the athletic is, is kind of the biggest, most obvious example of this kind of working. They made I think some strategic areas early on in the way that they pulled staff together that made it quite an expensive organization to run. And I think that's part, probably part of the reason why they didn't get quite as much cash for it as they thought. But still building a media a media entity from nothing in the last, I think it started five years ago or so. I remember sitting at a Tor de France press buffet with some of the. The British. So at the time it was, you know, sky Era. A lot of big name British sport writers, sports writers were coming over the tour, and a couple of those guys were talking about job offers from the athletic and actually like how insanely well paid they were going to be So I think [00:33:13] Randall R. Jacobs: And the, these are full, full-time positions. We're not [00:33:15] Caley Fretz: oh, yeah, yeah. [00:33:16] Randall R. Jacobs: Just shifting everything to freelance. Like so [00:33:18] Caley Fretz: No, no, no. These are, yeah, [00:33:20] Randall R. Jacobs: models Do. [00:33:21] Caley Fretz: no, I mean, I don't, I mean, perhaps they're contractors or something, but like, you know, the, the, these individuals are writing a, a story a day most of the time about the particular beat that they're talking about. A story every other day, depending on the, on the, on the writer probably. But anyway, yeah, about about five years ago. So you see, you know, you've got a media entity that's only about five years old and just sold to the New York Times for half a million or whatever it was, or sorry, half a billion. [00:33:43] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. [00:33:43] Caley Fretz: a pretty, that's a success story in my mind. And shows that the. The model can work, I think. There's no guarantees and that's a scale that I don't really have any need, want, or desire to come anywhere near. But I do think that the core essentially value proposition of membership that they, that they showed worked, can work elsewhere. It can work in cycling, can work across endurance media, I think. [00:34:12] Randall R. Jacobs: Well, and again, with my kind of very cursory understanding of the space, they were required by the New York Times, which itself went through its own economic model crisis and had to make the switch to a paywall. And the quality of the content was sufficient that they're, they're making such large acquisitions, so they must be doing something right. They're, they're not the failing New York Times. As some folks called them a few years ago. I think there's also something to be said for consolidating quality and having the interaction of the sort that you did at at cycling tips, not just through Velo Club but also just the comments section. It, it was a very unique space and your team was in there. Interacting and the, the nature of the communication that I saw, the way that your readers were engaging there, it didn't seem hierarchical at all. It was a conversation with, with you and your team and that that was very, very cool to see. And that was something quite special that I think is more a consequence of the people involved than of the particular platform as special as cycling tips was. And I was one of the early readers that was, those are my racing days when it was literally just the blog and it was pointers on how to train. It was the cool thing at the time. And. Actual cycling tips. Yeah. That name was, was a direct, directly correlated with the contents. But I don't know if I've shared this with you, but in addition to the podcast, which is founded by Craig Dalton we also started this Slack community called the Ridership, which also is bit over a couple thousand members, and also has these like healthy dynamics. We call it a, a community of Rogers Helping Riders. And that was directly inspired by what you guys do at Velo. like saw what you were doing over there was just something that wanted to emulate, found inspiring saw a place for. And I'd be curious one of the things that Craig and I have talked about, is some form of shared platform that's somehow democratically governed. Where content creators and those who are engaging with their content who wanna support them and so on, can all meet and having that be something centralized in the sense that it's all meeting in the same place, but decentralized in terms of the governance structure, and then maybe even set up as a non-profit. I'm curious if you've had any thoughts around that sort of thing. [00:36:35] Caley Fretz: Yeah, I've actually sort of played around with similar ideas. We, yeah. In this, well, and again, in the sort of couple weeks that I've been thinking about, really thinking about this now we thought through, so, so ironically, one of the things that. There's been a fair number of complaints around with outside was was essentially like web three and, and NFT stuff. However some of that technology would actually make something like what you're talking about potentially work quite a bit better. Again, I haven't spent, we, we didn't go too far down this, this, this rabbit hole cause we feel like getting something off the ground relatively quickly is, is, is a priority. But I agree that, that something platforms work, right? Like that's essentially, that, that's all YouTube is, is just a platform for other people to, to, to put content on. They monetize it over top. They give you a cut, they take most of it. That's a, it's a pretty good business actually. So like could you do that for endurance sports, perhaps? Probably. Are there enough? Are there enough really high quality individual content creators out there to make that work? Probably, maybe like, are, are there enough Ben Delaney's, who would love to probably work with a platform that, that increased their visibility? But, you know, in, in exchange for a cut of whatever he's making, probably. I mean, that's essentially the, the deal that he's made with YouTube, right? Like we were saying. I think there's something there. I don't, I think it'd, I think it'd be incredibly difficult to, to get off the ground and would almost have to be quite organic and you'd have to be kind of willing to, to sit on it and let it grow for quite some time or, or sit on a bunch of investment money and, and do it that way. Which I don't necessarily have the time for at this point in time, but I like the idea. I really, I like, I genuinely, you know, I've, I've had a lot of conversations with other people in, in bike media over the last couple weeks because for obvious reasons, people giving me a ring. They're saying a lot of 'em are saying basically like, Hey, I'm sorry just checking in on you. Stuff like that. And we, and we get to talking about this sort of thing. And one of the things that keeps coming up is this desire to stop competing so directly with each other as bike media, right? Like the space is too small. We all do our own thing. We talk to maybe the same audience in general, but we talk to them in very different ways. And you know, like I I I, I, I've been on the phone with editor in chiefs of, of, of a couple different major bike outlets in the last week and all have said something along those lines. And I think that some sort of collective would, would hit the same. Yeah, it would hit, it would hit the same. there, right? Of a, of a desire to provide a space for everybody to just create really good work that they actually get paid for. Cuz that's the hard thing again, you're still talking about putting the genie back in the bottle. You're still talking about trying to get people to pay for, for something that they historically haven't paid for, or you're running an advertising based model, which is incredibly difficult. And in part, and this particular moment is very, very difficult. I mean, you know, Robin, the CEO of outside mentioned that specifically in the letter that came along with with these layoffs is like the advertising world out there right now, particularly in endemic media, like cycling is bad. It is bad news. You know, they're, they're looking into 2023 and seeing and seeing steep drop-offs in the amount that that is being spent. So you've run up against kind of similar problems, I think with that model. But it is certainly something that is The incentives to me feel like they're lined up for creators in a, in a model like that, right? Because they, if done right, they would directly benefit from their, their work. Whereas, you know, something that's always kind of frustrated me in this space is like, the value of myself and, and, and editorial teams have increased the value of entities tremendously o over my career. And then they get sold and I see none of it And so like that, that the incentive, [00:40:24] Randall R. Jacobs: and [00:40:25] Caley Fretz: structure is not, is not great within most of bike media [00:40:29] Randall R. Jacobs: Yeah. It's bad enough in the tech space where there are stock options, but generally to the founder goes most of the spoils. Even though and I say this as a founder, I don't create most of the value, right? Nothing that, that I could do would get off the ground without all the other people who make it happen. And so, it's only right that there be a distribution of ownership and a sharing of the rewards if there's success, which in turn incentivizes success. In the case of cycling tips, in reading the comments it's very clear that the readership knows it. They're not there for cycling tips. Cycling tips is the bander under which all the people whose perspectives they valued. It's where those people are. And so, your standalone brand and that of your colleagues, has value and has value in particular, if it's brought in a single place where people can interact with you as, as they had in the past it's a terrible thing to lose. And you know, whatever the reasons for it, obviously there are economic headwinds. But it's, it's unfortunate. But there's a saying that I, I live by that seems to apply, which is change happens when the fear of change is less than the pain of staying the same. [00:41:36] Caley Fretz: Hmm. [00:41:37] Randall R. Jacobs: And there's nothing quite like a radically changing economic model or layoffs or things like that that make staying the same, really painful. And so whether the fear has changed or not, time to take the leap and people like yourself and Ben and others have been making that leap. I wonder you mentioned that some sort of platform would have to. Either be funded by a bunch of VC money, which honestly I don't, if you wanna end up with a small fortune, start with a big one. Throwing VC money at things is a really good way to end up with Juicero. I don't know if you recall that [00:42:10] Caley Fretz: Oh, yes. [00:42:11] Randall R. Jacobs: 130 or 160 million of Sandhill Road money lit on fire for a a glorified electric press for If anyone's curious, look this up. It is. It'll, it'll make you feel that yeah, it, it'll make you question the judgment of, of Silicon Valley in a way that I have learned too from the inside over the years. But the organic piece let's, let's unpack that cuz I, I have a couple of ideas that I'd like to bounce off of you. So platforms like YouTube, I suspect it's gonna be very hard for somebody who has an audience on YouTube or who wants to build an audience to leave YouTube. But having a platform that is essentially an a. So if you're a content creator, wherever your content is, this is the one place where you can find all of it along with, categorized content from other players. So you want to learn about tools you have, Dave Romes YouTube videos about tools. You have his podcast about tools. You have other content creators content there. And then it becomes kind of platform agnostic like you can be anywhere, but this is the place where you go to find it. And this is the place where you go to interact. Cuz the YouTube comments, that's not an interaction space that's largely a trolling space or, or it's a largely one directional sorts of conversation happening. Even, even the healthiest version of it is still not a conversation. But if you have a YouTube video embedded in a a community, [00:43:27] Caley Fretz: Mm-hmm. [00:43:28] Randall R. Jacobs: Now all of a sudden people are in digital community together and not just over say Dave and his tool-based content or his tool focused content. Not to say that's all he does, but using that as an example, but also Dave in community, in his local chapter, right. In his local riding community. And in the context of a place where people are also going for, James' bike reviews and you know, your Twitter de France coverage and, and things like this that's one model that I've wondered, like if there was such a platform. [00:43:59] Caley Fretz: how, how, how do you monetize it? Is it, is it pay? Walled, [00:44:03] Randall R. Jacobs: That's a big question, right? [00:44:04] Caley Fretz: Well, so, so, the reason I ask is because I, I, like, I would see a couple different options, right? And, and we're getting into real sort of media theory here, but , [00:44:11] Randall R. Jacobs: This, this was actually part of the conversation I wanted to have with you long before all these changes. And it's something we've discussed on the pod before as well with other content creators. [00:44:19] Caley Fretz: I, I think So I, I'll say that first and foremost that I'm, I'm not anti paywall. I know some of the, some others are in, in the media space, but I fundamentally believe that if done properly you're essentially only targeting. So, so, so I'm, I'm a big advocate of what, what we call meter paywall, which is basically you get a couple free stories in a given amount of time whatever the number is, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, whatever you want. And then at some point you, you pay right? Now, the nice thing about that is that you know, if we, if we take a, let's take a hypothetical cycling media outlet with somewhere in, you know, we, we'll call it, we'll call it 2 million unique users a month, right? You've got 2 million people showing up at a website every month. The number of people who are actually gonna get to the paywall that are gonna go to enough stories to get to that paywall is probably something in the neighborhood of like, Less than 5% of those people. It's a tiny, tiny, tiny number because a huge number of those people are coming in from Google. They're, they're, they're seo, they're coming into SEO stories, they're coming into, you know, how to bet in my disc brakes. And they're, they're in and they find out how to do that and they're out. Right? And that's the only interaction you have with them. And they're useful from a page view perspective if you're monetizing that. But they're not particularly useful from a membership perspective cuz who's gonna pay to get one story, right. That, that's, that doesn't make any sense. So you're really only trying to monetize your super users. So your super users are that 5%, the people that actually end up hitting paywall. And part of the reason why I'm not anti paywall is because those people that, that, that small group of people that is coming back day after day after day after day, they value you. And if they truly value you, they should pay for you. , like, I don't have any problem with, you know, we put a ton of time and energy and effort into this and it is our jobs. And we need to get paid. And if people, if people appreciate what we're doing enough to come back every single day and they're not willing to pay for that, then as far as I'm concerned, they need to look at themselves and, and, and ask why. Right? Like, all I'm asking for is, is, you know, eight bucks a month or whatever to continue doing so that, so that you can do something that you do every single day that you enjoy, that you, that you gain information and entertainment from inspiration from even. I think that that's a pretty reasonable trade off. I don't really have any problem asking the super user to do that. I think that there are other paywall versions of a paywall that, that I, that I don't agree with, sort of philosophically, I don't agree with paywall in a hundred percent of content. I also think that that just ruins your discoverability and it, it, it doesn't allow anybody [00:46:49] Randall R. Jacobs: was, I was gonna say, is [00:46:50] Caley Fretz: Yeah. Then nobody, [00:46:53] Randall R. Jacobs: thing or is it more just practically like, you're, you're gonna cut off all the channels for discovery? [00:46:58] Caley Fretz: Both. Yeah. I, I, it, it realistically, yeah. Like I said, your discoverability goes to zero. People can't tell that you make good content. I have kind of a similar issue with the, the like premium content model. So you, you know, you give away your, your crappy stuff for free and the really good stuff you gotta pay for, like, I don't like that either. Cause why then anybody's strolling around your website, it's gonna be like, well, it's the only thing is I can read are crap. So why would I pay for the, i, I don't know that [00:47:23] Randall R. Jacobs: poor, it's a poor pitch. [00:47:24] Caley Fretz: It's a bad pitch. So, so I have issues with that. I also just like philosophically, you know, the, the sort of fully hard pay wall that you can't read anything without paying beyond the discovery of discoverability problems. I just kinda have issues with that because like if we do write a, how to bet in your disc brake so they don't make noise story. Like, I want people to be able to access that, right? Like, then I don't have to listen up. people's loud disc breaks. You know, like people, I, I have no problem sort of providing that much content to somebody for free. And I think that the fully pay well in that is, is, is isn't great. But again, I I'm not against paywalls in general. Meter paywalls I think work quite well. They yeah, we know that they're effective. They can be incredibly effective, particularly if you have this sort of requisite essentially story volume to make them work and, and sort of audience size to make them work. So given that like the, the sort of concept that you are talking about, paywall seems like a, like a, a, a good way forward because again, you're sort of avoiding the avoiding the need to, to chase advertising dollars constantly. And this is, this is gonna be somewhat a reflection of what I'm thinking for, for. For myself going forward, obviously you're avoiding, you're, you're avoiding chasing advertising dollars incessantly, which, you know, I'm not against advertising either. I think the right advertising partners can be, can be crucial, right? They provide lots of actually value to an audience at some point, right. You know, the fact that you get bikes to test the fact that you have a good relationship there. Those, those are all valuable things. So not, not anti advertising either. I'm just more anti, constantly chasing every single cent you can possibly get out of advertising. And the, and the sort of the, the, the extra resource that, that very concept requires. And so yeah, some sort of like membership driven thing lines up with the sort of ethos of what you're talking about, which is very community driven. We know communities are willing to invest in their own space where they can be a community. And so that would make sense as well. And if you start to do things like add too much advertising to something like that, then you do the incentives start to shift. Cuz you start working for the advertisers instead of working for the community. And that I think goes against the whole ethos that you're talking about of the sort of communal thing. So that would be my, that would be my 2 cents on, on, on how to build something like that. Like I said, it is a concept that, that we played around with and I've played around with in my head for, for some time actually. I personally, again, it's more of a, more of a time issue for me than anything. Not that I don't think it could be cool and don't think it could work. I just think that the, to build that community would take quite a bit of time. And also figuring out the precise method of paying. So the other roadblock that I, that I came across when I was thinking through this was the precise method of paying content creators in that scenario, it's quite complicated. Cause are you paying them? Are you paying them by page view? Are you paying them? Is there a tip jar? Is there some sort of, of, you know, rank voting system when people sign up, like, I like these three creators and I don't like these three, and so the top three get, get my money. And the, and the other three don't. That starts to create some perverse incentives toward bad content as well, right? And, and essentially that's the, that is the YouTube problem. The YouTube problem is that YouTube is incentivized for clickbait. It's incentivized for garbage content, , because that's, that's the stuff that gets picked up. And think about, think about your average, like YouTube headline or YouTube sort of, title card. Versus what you would find on a, a site like cycling tips these days. Right. It's a dramatic difference. Like we, we would have to change headlines depending on whether it was going on YouTube or going on on the site back in the day. Cuz YouTube is incentivized to be like all caps and exclamation points and somebody crashing in the title card and all these things that we kind of hate because that's what you end [00:51:25] Randall R. Jacobs: Kaylee, Fritz destroys X, Y, [00:51:27] Caley Fretz: Exactly. So after the monetization question, how do you actually split up that money with the content creators? It's a, it's a, again, I like, I love the, the idea, I love the concept, but the sort of those particular decisions. Be crucial to success and crucial to it actually working for the people that, that you, that you know, that you want, want, would want it to work for. And it'd be hard. It'd be really hard. I I don't have the solution to those questions, which is why I, again, thought through a lot of this and, and thought through a similar concept, not, not identical but a similar concept and, and basically came to the conclusion that in the near term, a a slightly more traditional model is not the worst thing in the world, right? Like, build really good content, pay people for it make people pay for it. , that's essentially the, that's the, the, the three part business plan of most membership driven media entities these days. Does that all make sense? I feel like I went in a bit of rant there. [00:52:31] Randall R. Jacobs: Not at all. Not at all. And in fact, it's a conversation I'd like to continue cuz I have a few ideas that probably we, we don't want to dedicate a whole episode to just this conversation. But certainly appreciate you pulling back a curtain on the sorts of questions that you as an editor in the space and an editor for one of the most respected publications in the space and for good reason, providing that perspective in the sorts of things that you are thinking about from this new Vantage point is very much appreciative. So thank you for that. I wanna go in a completely different direction. What are the pieces that you've written that you most enjoyed or found most challenging, or that were most meaningful for you as a writer? [00:53:08] Caley Fretz: Hmm. Internally at cycling tips. We called them riddles. It was a, it was a coin, a term that I intro coined for his little, the little essays. Right. There's a couple of those that I, that I really enjoyed writing and, and liked writing. It's just sort of the pure act of, of, of sort of language, basically like playing with language. Which is still fundamentally like why I started doing this to begin with is cause I really enjoyed doing that. And the last couple years have stepped away from writing almost entirely. Not entirely, but almost entirely. And, and so when I did get a chance to write, it was always, it was always meaningful and I, and I liked it. That tended to be at things like the Tor de Frances where, you know, I would essentially send to myself cuz I, I wanted to go cover the to Frances again. I had plenty, plenty, plenty of, plenty of talented, talented writers that, that reporters that could have gone instead of me. But at some point you pull the boss card and I'm like, I'm gonna the tour So, so yeah, there's a couple pieces on that front. Actually one of the first pieces I ever wrote for segment tips it's, it was called The Road to Niro's House. And it was about a trip that my wife and I and two friends took to Columbia. And it, it, like half the photos are broken on it now. It's, it's, it's from like 2017 like 6,500 words of a trip around Columbia and all the sort of things that, that riding in Columbia. Particularly in 2017 meant sort of keeping in mind that that, you know, a relatively large and disastrous war there only kind of wrapped up around the 2010 mark depending on who you ask . So I, I, I really enjoyed that piece. And then, yeah, like these, these little riddles, you know, there's a couple that I've written over my career that I that you tend to write them in 20 minutes, right? Because something just hits you in the head and, and you just, I mean, you just get it out, but it, because of that, it's, they're very pure. I think. I wrote one about the toe strap that my dad would use to attach a sock full of Tube tire, co2, you know, flat fixing implements underneath his saddle. Right? And he would, he would strap this thing underneath his saddle with a, with a strap, like a tube sock underneath his saddle with a, with a, with a tow strap, like a leather tow strap. And, and I, and I wrote this story about how, like, you know, I just remember when I was 12, 13 years old. And you know, my dad is obviously a much stronger cycl cyclist than me at that point. And just like, you know, trying to stay on his wheel with this like, toe strap dangling in front of me as like the, you know, I'm just, I'm just, I just need to stay on the tow strap. Wrote a piece about that at some point that I, that I ended up, I, I really liked. And it was meaningful to me because of my, my relationship with my dad is like very tied into my relationship with cycling because we grew up doing it together and, and still ride together when we can and things like that. There was one about eating Castle and Carcassone during a rest day, Tor de France that I liked. Again, these, you know, [00:55:59] Randall R. Jacobs: Castle in Per, [00:56:01] Caley Fretz: Castle is is like a, [00:56:03] Randall R. Jacobs: I'm, I'm, I'm not so [00:56:04] Caley Fretz: is like, is like a meat, like a meaty stew thing you know, white beans and, and, and some, some meat. And Carcassone is a town in southern France with a big kind of world heritage site castle over top of it. And it's always hot as hell there. They often have restage there at the torque. It's always hot as hell. And I have yet to find a hotel or an Airbnb there that has air conditioning. So you're always just like baking, you know, second rest day of the Tor De France. You know, I, I think I was sitting in a cafe. And I had a couple roses like you do and, and eating a castle, which is also hot. So I'm like, I'm hot eating a hot castle and just watching the world kind of go by like the sort of Tor de France rest day world go going by and, you know, like Greg Van Ama coming up and, and stopping at a red light. I'm this, I've wrote the story a while ago and I'm trying to remember what I even talked about. You kn

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Dowden - Capricorn (Edge) 2. Tokyo Fan Club - Horses (Echonomist Remix) (Bedrock Records) 3. Robin Thurston - Number 37 (AH Digital) 4. Sam Hopgood - Flow/Xpander (Anthony Pappa Mashup) (Selador) 5. DOMA - Past Adventures (Sudbeat Music) 6. Amir Telem - Quiet Mind Blue Sky (D-Formation Remix) (Univack) 7. Nōpi - Stri;La (Meanwhile) 8. Mike Griego - Brothi (Replug) 9. Robin Thurston - Hole in the Horizon (AH Digital) 10. Pole Folder & CP - Apollo Vibes (Tara Brooks Remix) (Bedrock Records) Part 2 - Stephen Green (Guest Mix) 1. 2ndSun - Shimmer 2. Breeder - Sputnik (Rise And Fall Relaunch) 3. Sasha - Xpander (Neil Browne Remix) 4. Remake - Blade Runner (Maceo Plex Renaissance Remix) 5. Virtualmismo - Mismoplastico (Chris Cargo Remix) 6. Blue Amazon - No Other Love (Silinder Remix) 7. King Unique feat. Natalie Arnold - Raydrop (7 Hours) 8. The Beloved - Sweet Harmony (Kosmas Epsilon & Zorz 'Northern People' Remix - Cid Inc. Re-Edit) 9. Goldfrapp - A And E (Gui Boratto Remix) 10. Hot Chip - I Feel Better (Max Cooper Remix)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. IndianSoul - Ahte (Aamish Remix) (Inner Symphony) 2. Allies for Everyone & Rafael Cerato - Hunger (Browncoat Instrumental Mix) (ICONYC) 3. Gonza Sclarovsky - La Querencia (Deepwibe Digital) 4. Kostya Outta & Bodai - Imagine (The Cobb Remix) (Deepwibe Underground) 5. Juan Buitrago - Ikoma (Deepwibe Underground) 6. Tamir Regev - 70% Water (Plattenbank) 7. Michael A - Lonely Planets (Genesis Music) 8. Andy Woldman, Oliver Harper - Dana (Bonzai Progressive) 9. Roger Martinez - Het Leven (Higher States) 10. Mike Griego - Fying Doves (Replug) 11. Gadi Mitrani - Gone (Alex O'Rion Remix) (Balance Music) 12. Franco Camiolo - Dreams (MNL) 13. Hunter/Game - Voices (Petar Dundov Remix) (Just This) 14. Kamilo Sanclemente & Zalvador - Coalition (Proton Music) 15. Mariano Favre - Abundance (Matias Chilano Remix) (Particles) 16. D-Nox & Stereo Underground - Gruuve (Desert Hearts Black) 17. Alex O'Rion - The Chase (Roger Martinez Interdimensional Remix) (Meanwhile) 18. Pole Folder & CP - Apollo Vibes (Kayinda Remix) (Bedrock) 19. Mononoid feat. Amy Douglas White - Running out of Time (Recorpo Remix) (ICONYC) 20. Sam Hopgood - Oceans (Balance Music) 21. Umloud - Fahrenheit (IbogaTech) 22. Binary Finary - 1998 (MOSHIC 2022 Remix) (White) Part 2 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Kasper Koman - Loco Motif (Tantum Remix) (Lost & Found) 2. Robin Thurston - Hole in the Horizon (Federico Puentes Remix) (AH Digital) 3. Panayiotis Tassis - AN (Dissident Music / EMG) 4. Mariano Favre - Mindset (Particles) 5. Jiminy Hop - Agmoli (Meanwhile) 6. Carsten Halm - Dark Light (Not Demure Remix) (Mango Alley) 7. Meeting Molly - Blueprint (Mango Alley) 8. Aurel den Bossa, Ias Ferndale - The Sky Is Red (Univack) 9. AxeLara - Aglaia (Alex O'Rion Remix) (Just Movement) 10. Paul Deep AR - Daichi (Eric Lune Remix) (Random Rec) 11. Carsten Halm - Licht (Traum)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Antrim - Stax (Sudbeat Music) 2. Shai T - Oriki (Hernan Cattaneo & Marcelo Vasami Remix) (Warung Recordings) 3. Marcan Liav - Red Sanctuary (Emi Galvan Remix) (Stripped Recordings) 4. ANUQRAM & Forty Cats - Atacama (Plattenbank) 5. Partenaire - Desiderata (Plattenbank) 6. Jamie Stevens & GMJ - Force of Nature (Balance Music) 7. Andre Moret - Ambit (Sebastian Sellares Remix) (onedotsixtwo) 8. Mike Rish - Enter (EMPHI Remix) (Juicebox Music) 9. Kamilo Sanclemente - Intense Delerium (Parquet Recordings) 10. Enamour - Revelator (Extended Mix) (Anjunadeep) 11. The Stupid Experts - Aztec (Forensic Records) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Onai - De Instante a Instante (Moonatic) 2. Fidan - Distant (Inner Symphony) 3. Bagsol - Simplificar (Soundteller Records) 4. Ben Haydie - Bad Idea (EMPHI Remix) (Mango Alley) 5. Jiminy Hop - Levera (Meanwhile) 6. Soul Button & MPathy - Infinitude (Steyoyoke) 7. Quivver - The Price of Time (Controlled Substance) 8. Rinzen - Magical Realism (Bedrock) 9. Hobin Rude - Alea (Plattenbank) 10. Cream (PL) - Solemnis (Plattenbank) 11. Nōpi - Nature in Mountains After Mushrooms (Replug) 12. Sasha & lau.ra - Burnt Letters (Last Night on Earth) 13. Pole Folder & CP - Apollo Vibes (Petar Dundov Remix) (Bedrock) 14. Jaydee - Eyeball (Hooj Tunes) 15. Nikko Mavridis - Reinforced (Nicholas Van Orton Remix) (Balkan Connection South America) 16. Muuk - Anymas (Capital Heaven) 17. Outbreak - Adam Sellouk - Outbreak (Lowbit) 18. Rauschhaus - Pitchblack (Parquet Recordings) 19. Booka Shade - Confide (Contour 1) (Blaufield Music) 20. Marc Romboy, Stephan Bodin - Atlas (Shall Ocin & Artbat Remix) (Systematic Recordings) 21. Sasha & Locked Groove - Exploding Suns (Last Night on Earth) 22. Sasha - Track 10 (WHITE)

Robin Thurston is the CEO of Outside, the largest media company in the outdoor industry by orders of magnitude. In this conversation, we discuss Robin's entrepreneurial background building MapMyRun into the largest running community in the world, the state of connected fitness, putting a price tag on running-related and other outdoor media, the "Outerverse", and how Robin thinks about preserving the authenticity of acquired brands like fastestknowntime.com.Sponsors:- Kodiak Cakes - use code Singletrack15 at checkout on their website (https://kodiakcakes.com/)  to get 15% off your next order- Gnarly Nutrition - use code Singletrack20 at checkout on their website (https://gognarly.com/) to get 20% off your next order- InsideTracker - go to (https://info.insidetracker.com/single...) to get 20% off your next order.Timestamps:(1:46) - connected fitness, MapMyRun origins, outdoor industry background(10:36) - the state of connected fitness/running, progress made in this space(15:24) - incorporating reward cycles into running/outdoor industry products(18:04) - micro-transactions in running products and services(20:39) - Outside shop (22:37) - putting a price tag on running content, building utility into consumption(28:04) - thoughts on if and when the majority of consumers will accept premium content models(30:39) - whether the recent layoffs at Outside are a strike against these optimistic business models(35:58) - whether and how to rally major industries players off the major tech media platforms (38:32) - Outerverse conversation, screen time, alternatives within Web3(43:23) - practical examples of the Outerverse in action(47:23) - how to preserve the quality, authenticity, and trust of acquired brands like fastestknowntime.com(50:36) - recruiting running and other outdoor creators to the platform (52:35) - final calls to actionAdditional Episodes You May Enjoy:#58 - Buzz Burrell | Modern FKT Movement, FKT.com Sale To Outside Mag, Trail Running Business#28 - Joe Vennare | Technology For Ultra Runners, Trail Running Media Companies, Business Advice#20 - Zoe Rom | Trail Runner Magazine, Running Journalism, Diversity Talks#7 - Mark Gainey | Co-Founder of Strava, Trail Running, Athlete Creators#3 - Jimmy Daly | Social Media, Content Creation, Branding For Trail RunnersSupport the show

Outside Interactive Inc. is the world's leading creator of active lifestyle content and experiences. This year, CEO Robin Thurston revealed its plans for the 'Outerverse' - an adventure-minded, wellness-driven alternative to the Metaverse. The 'Outerverse' represents the first comprehensive delve into Web3 technology by a significant consumer media company. Outerverse platform will feature an NFT marketplace, creator platform, and loyalty tokens with the goal of rewarding people for getting outdoors.In this episode, Robin shares that he was a bike racer in high school, which fuelled his love for nature and outdoor activities. He reveals that he decided to stop racing and ride his bike for fun after having an accident during a race in Switzerland. Together, Robin and Richard discuss the importance of spending time outside in nature to appreciate and feel more connected with the problems our planet is facing. They discuss whether the rise of technology and the internet has caused the younger generation to spend more time inside on their devices and debate how to encourage younger people to spend more time in the great outdoors. Robin delves into Outside Interactive Inc.'s new project, the 'Outerverse,' which he describes as 'anti-Metaverse'. He explains how they created the 'Outerverse' to encourage more people to get outdoors by offering in-game and real-life rewards. He also shares how Outside aims to become carbon neutral by 2030, and he explains that every transaction made is 100% offset for all of their partners, brands and creators.To find out more about Outside and the 'Outerverse', visit: www.outside.io***This episode is brought to you by Kase Filters. I travel the world with my camera, and I can use any photography filters I like, and I've tried all of them, but in recent years I've landed on Kase Filters.Kase filters are made with premium materials, HD optical glass, shockproof, with zero color cast. Their round and square filter designs, magnetic systems, filter holders, adapters, and step-up rings, are everything I need, so I never miss a moment.And now, my listeners can get 10% off the Kase Filters Amazon page when they visit.beyondthelens.fm/kase and use coupon code BERNABE10Kase Filters, Capture with Confidence.

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). A special extended edition to celebrate 100 shows! Part 1 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Lucio Consolo & Agustín Buaon - Angles (Inner Symphony) 2. Aacht - Augusto (ATLANT) 3. Marino Canal - Inertia (Afterlife) 4. Alex O'Rion & Ezequiel Arias - Solis (Meanwhile) 5. Paul Hamilton & CaThY K - Muusiiqaa (Deepwibe Underground) 6. Juan Deminicis - Cycles (Proton Music) 7. Andres Moris - Owen's Dream (Meanwhile) 8. Benja Molina - The Godness Zoe (Deepwibe Underground) 9. Nicholas Van Orton - Oseram (Balkan Connection South America) 10. Benja Molina - Cygnus (Deepwibe Underground) 11. Chanu - Mirror (Mr.Mind Remix) (Bevel Rec) 12. Clyve - Action (Christian Monique Remix) (Balkan Connection) 13. Aalson - Ritual (Spectrum (NL)) 14. EMPHI - The Box (Meanwhile) 15. John Creamer, Stephane K - I Wish You Were Here (BlueAnt Islandlife Extended Remix) (Sommersville Records) 16. Alfonso Muchacho - Astral (Movement Recordings) 17. Jonathan Cowan - Alden's Groove (Selador) 18. Einmusik - Caramel (Einmusika Recordings) 19. EarthLife - Never Ending (ATLANT) 20. Jody Barr - Makalu (Meanwhile) 21. Grammik & Monarke - Abroad (Steyoyoke) 22. Giorgia Angiuli - FreedHome (Extended Mix) (UV) 23. Jeremy Olander - Murphy (Vivrant) 24. The Space Brothers - Shine (Jody Barr Extended Remix) (Armada Music) 25. Freefall - Skydive (Jody Barr Remix) (WHITE) Part 2 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Luka Sambe - Genome (Beat Boutique) 2. Khen - Angel's Share (Lost & Found) 3. Pig&Dan - Make You Go Higher (David Morales Stereo Mix) (Bedrock Records) 4. Royksopp feat. Pixx - How The Flowers Grow (Rodriguez Jr. Remix) (Dog Triumph Profound Mysteries) 5. Volen Sentir - Mitra (Lost & Found) 6. Danny Bonnici, Joe Mattei - Underpass (Jamie Stevens Remix) (UGENIUS Music) 7. Howling - Lover (Jennifer Cardini & Damon Jee Remix) (Counter Records) 8. Indieveed - Suspense (Selador) 9. Sam Hopgood - Flow (Selador) 10. Robin Thurston - Supersedure (ARRVL Records) 11. Emma Vazquez - Shadowlands (VegaZ SL Remix) (AH Digital) 12. Cream (PL) - Zephyr (Transensations Records) 13. Jero Nougues - Cycles (Saturo Sounds) 14. Dowden, Essco - Confined (Univack) 15. Aaron Suiss & Mayro - What You Believe (Perspectives Digital) 16. Hobin Rude - It Was and It Will (Movement Recordings) 17. Captain Mustache - Andromeda (Kiko Remix) (Bedrock Records) 18. Rafael Cerato & Teologen - White Rooms (Einmusika Recordings) 19. Jero Nougues - Infinity Sequence (David Podhel Re-Interpretation) (Arcedian) 20. Dowden, Essco - Middle Earth (Univack) 21. Aubrey Fry - The Loop (Alex Banks Remix) (Bedrock Records) 22. Stephan Bodzin - Caligula (Fedele Remix) (Systematic Recordings) 23. Chris Avantgarde, Anyma (ofc) - Consciousness (Eric Prydz Extended Remix) (Afterlife Records) 24. Cassian, Hayden James feat. Elderbrook - On Your Own (Jordan Brando Remix) (Future Classic) 25. Orbital - Belfast (Yotto Remix) (Orbital Recordings Ltd) 26. Andy Moor & Adam White pres. Whiteroom - The Whiteroom (Marsh Remix) (Anjunadeep) 27. Jeremy Olander - Murphy (Vivrant)

System Showcase on Proton Radio. Tune in on the 4th Wednesday of the month at 8PM (EST), 1AM (UK), 2AM (CEST), 9PM (Argentina). Part 1 - Robin Thurston (Resident Mix) 1. Weekend Heroes & Cadillac Express - Floating Wonders (The Soundgarden) 2. Fran Garay - Nohis (Deepwibe Digital) 3. Rocio Portillo - Black Retriever (Marway Remix) (AH Digital) 4. Dmitry Molosh - Autobahn (Deepwibe Underground) 5. Rauschhaus - Kaiju (Hicky & Kalo Remix) (Mango Alley) 6. Ezequiel Arias & Sebastian Sellares - Sky Above (Replug) 7. Kanas - Al Aire (Duende Mix) (Univack) 8. Trilucid - The Loved Are Never Lost (Michael A Remix) (Proton Music) 9. Teleport-X, Agustín Ficarra - Raven (Andrés Moris Remix) (Univack) 10. Sasha & Qrion - Dry & High (Last Night On Earth) 11. Mentat - Onset (Cirrus Sounds) 12. Edu Imbernon - Ligre (ATLANT) Part 2 - Andy Green (Resident Mix) 1. Ben Haydie & Zee Essential - Time (Einmusika Recordings) 2. GMJ - Door of Light (Meanwhile) 3. Ezequiel Arias, Sebastian Sellares - Imaginear (Replug) 4. Soul Button & Rustboy - Crescendo (Inner Symphony) 5. Fran Garay - Identity (Deepwibe Digital) 6. Luis Damora - Echoes from Love (Sudbeat Music) 7. Dmitry Molosh - Custodian (Deepwibe Underground) 8. Paul Hamilton & CaThY K - Debauchery (Deepwibe Underground) 9. Matan Caspi & Tali Muss - The One (Outta Limits) 10. DJ Linus - Treble in Paradise (Marcelo Vasami Remix) (Plattenbank) 11. Cream (PL) - Voyager (Transensations Records) 12. Deviu - Become Human (Inner Symphony) 13. Raphael Mader - Blinding (Renaissance Records) 14. Quivver - Traces (Controlled Substance) 15. Sasha & Qrion - Dry & High (Last Night on Earth) 16. Jamie Stevens, Danny Bonnici, Joe Mattei - Underpass (Vicious) 17. Astral Base - Other Side (Frezel Remix) (ICONYC) 18. LEYZEN - Enana Blanca (Parquet Recordings) 19. Santiago Celasso - Criterion (Steyoyoke Black) 20. Luke Brancaccio & Gai Barone - Little Pictures (Renaissance Records) 21. Art of Trance - A Time Before Time (Torsten Fassbender Remix) (Platipus Records) 22. Ezequiel Arias, Sebastian Sellares - Delta Room (Replug) 23. Purple Dub - Catching Up (Lowbit) 24. Mathew Jonson - Marionette (Stephan Bodzin Remix) (Sapiens Recordings) 25. Ziger - Feel The Bass (ICONYC) 26. James Hurr - Tallis (Extended Mix) (Armada Electronic Elements)

“I'm a realist about the convergence of technology, culture and the outdoors.” Robin Thurston, Chairman and CEO, Outside, Inc. Do I seem a bit star-struck in this episode?  If so, it's because I was.  I've been a fan of Outside Magazine since I moved to Colorado decades ago – and its many niche brands including Warren Miller Films, Ski Magazine and Backpacker.  I was eager to explore how Outside, Inc. develops and manages all its niches for different kinds of outdoor enthusiasts – we did that, and we also dug into how Outside, Inc. considers the influence of technology on getting people outside! 

The metaverse seems to be the hottest thing in technology today. From virtual environments to avatars, our lives are being digitized more and more. Is there even a reason to go outside anymore? Robin Thurston, CEO of Outside Inc., built his entire company around this very question. What's even more interesting is that he is using web3 technology to help get people reacquainted with the great outdoors. In this episode, Ron and Chris chat with Robin about:  Why Outside decided to create the Outerverse  How the Outerverse is aimed at getting people outside What the Outerverse entails (i.e. NFT marketplace, tokens, creator platform) What this means for the future of outdoor content/outdoor content creators Sponsor Links:  Thank you to our sponsors Axonius and Uptycs for bringing this episode to life! Life is complex. But it's not about avoiding challenges or fearing failure. Just ask Simone Biles — the greatest gymnast of all time. Want to learn more about how Simone controls complexity? Watch her video at axonius.com/simone With Uptycs, modern defenders can prioritize, investigate and respond to threats across the entire attack surface—all from a common solution Uptycs.com Be sure to stop by their booth #435 at RSA 2022   Guest Bio: Before joining Outside (previously Pocket Outdoor Media), he ran a consumer genetics company called Helix in Silicon Valley before returning to his home state of Colorado. Prior to Helix, Robin co-founded and built MapMyFitness into one of the world's largest open fitness tracking platforms. Following the acquisition of MapMyFitness by Under Armour, he joined the innovative sports apparel organization and served as Chief Digital Officer, where he led the overall strategic direction of the company's Connected Fitness and eCommerce business.  Robin spent the first ten years of his career building a mutual fund classification and ratings platform at Lipper (a Thomson Reuters Company), as well as a risk and compensation platform at both American Century Investments and Wellington Management. He graduated with a MS in Finance from University of Colorado at Denver and lives with his wife and three children in Boulder, Co. He is a lifelong cyclist who started riding and racing in the early 1980's.   Links: Stay in touch with Robin Thurston on LinkedIn and Twitter Visit Outside Inc website  Visit the Outerverse Connect with Ron Eddings on LinkedIn and Twitter Connect with Chris Cochran on LinkedIn and Twitter Purchase a HVS t-shirt at our shop Continue the conversation by joining our Discord Check out  Hacker Valley Media and Hacker Valley Studio  

Early in his career Robin Thurston, founded MapMyFitness including MapMyRun which he then sold to Under Armour. Now as the CEO of Outside, the world's leading creator of active lifestyle content and experiences, he and his leadership team are reinventing how athletes consume content, participate and engage, increase knowledge, find gear, and ultimately perform in their sport. His story of innovation, leadership, and vision together with an insatiable appetite for Entrepreneurship is a Master Class in gritty determination. Listen Up!!

In this episode, we spoke to Robin Thurston, the CEO of Pocket Outdoor Media, the world's leading creator of active lifestyle content reaching 15M+ consumers every month. Robin was formerly the Chief Digital Officer at Under Armour, after having found and sold his startup MapMyFitness in 2013. Robin spoke about the recent acquisition of magazine titles from Active Interest Media, his vision for the company, why lifetime customer value is so important, and his thoughts on the future of fitness technology.