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3 episodes with open source sustainability
2 episodes with open source sustainability
2 episodes with open source sustainability
3 episodes with open source sustainability
In this episode of DejaVue, Michael and Alex chat with Matt Perry, the creator of Motion (formerly Framer Motion), about animations in web development.Matt talks about his journey from designing gaming magazines as a kid to becoming a full-time developer, sharing his experiences with ActionScript, jQuery, and how Motion was born. They discuss how simple and powerful Motion's API is, its ability to work with different frameworks, and how it stacks up against other animation libraries like GSAP and AnimeJS.But the episode also covers a lot of open source aspects, such as the challenges of keeping Motion going! Matt explains how Motion+ funds the development of Motion with one-time payments and time-gated (then publicly available) content, to support the project.Enjoy the episode!Our GuestMatt PerryMotionPersonal WebsiteBlueskyTwitterChapters(00:00) - Welcome to DejaVue (01:20) - How did you get into programming? (05:18) - Adobe ActionScript (08:33) - What is Motion (fka. Framer Motion)? (12:21) - APIs and Limitations (16:54) - Prerequisites for using Tools (24:26) - The jQuery of web animations (26:37) - The birth of Motion (31:02) - Motion for Vue (32:40) - Other "Motion for ..." adaptations? (34:36) - Funding the project - Motion+ (40:00) - One-time Payment and Time-gating (50:39) - Thoughts on other ways of monetizing Motion (52:43) - Can AI replace animation libraries? (57:41) - The difference between Motion and other libraries (01:01:04) - Closing Thoughts Links and ResourcesActionScriptECMAScriptPopmotionMotionMotion VueRick (Motion Vue maintainer)FramerDejaVue #054 - Open Source Sustainability (with Daniel Roe, Chad Whitacre & Rijk van Zanten)GSAPAnimeJSYour HostsMichael ThiessenTwitterYouTubeWebsiteAlexander LichterBlueskyYouTubeWebsite---Links marked with * are affiliate links. We get a small commission when you register for the service through our link. This helps us to keep the podcast running. We only include affiliate links for services mentioned in the episode or that we use ourselves.
Join hosts Michael Thiessen and Alexander Lichter for a special episode of DejaVue - a fascinating panel discussion on open source sustainability with three open source enthusiasts: Daniel Roe (Nuxt Team Lead),Chad Whitacre (Head of Open Source at Sentry), and Rijk van Zanten (CTO and co-founder of Directus).The panelists dive deep into what sustainability truly means in open source and get deep into the weeds of different licensing models, debating whether open source functions as a gift economy, and discuss the challenges of project governance.The panel also discusses important questions about leadership structures in open source projects, the role of companies in funding development, and practical ways everyone can contribute to making the ecosystem more sustainable - whether financially or through other meaningful contributions.Enjoy the episode!Our GuestsDaniel Roe - Nuxt Team Lead BlueskyWeb Chad Whitacre - Head of Open Source at Sentry BlueskyTwitterWebRijk van Zanten - CTO and co-founder of Directus BlueskyTwitterWebChapters(00:00) - Welcome to DejaVue (04:06) - What is Open Source Sustainability (12:51) - Open Source as a gift economy (19:20) - The Projects and their Licenses (29:50) - Sentry is not Open Source (34:53) - Open Source Definition and OSI (37:09) - Why people adopt open source software? (39:44) - Open Source Governance (47:50) - Stewarding an open source team (52:22) - Open Source Leadership (55:40) - What can YOU do to help open source? Links and ResourcesMastering Nuxt*xkcd on standardsJacob Kaplan-Moss: Paying Maintainers is GoodSentryDirectusNuxtBSLFair Source MITAGPLOSIBDFLNuxt GovernanceOpen Source Steward in the CRADaniel Roe: Contributing to NuxtOpen Source PledgeYour HostsAlexander LichterBlueskyYouTubeWebsiteMichael ThiessenTwitterYouTubeWebsite---Links marked with * are affiliate links. We get a small commission when you register for the service through our link. This helps us to keep the podcast running. We only include affiliate links for services mentioned in the episode or that we use ourselves.
Lisa is the founder of Base58 and Bitcoin++ bitcoin developer education initiatives and a board member of OpenSats. We discuss her conference series and the current state of bitcoin development. Lisa on Nostr: https://primal.net/niftynei Bitcoin++: https://btcplusplus.dev/Base58: https://base58.school/ OpenSats: https://opensats.org/EPISODE: 153BLOCK: 890602PRICE: 1157 sats per dollarVideo: https://primal.net/e/nevent1qqsyc2s5acdzycyllt7rxxyeddq0u0tzr96su6enurnpf552jjsu4tshfhc4v support dispatch: https://citadeldispatch.com/donatenostr live chat: https://citadeldispatch.com/streamodell nostr account: https://primal.net/odelldispatch nostr account: https://primal.net/citadelyoutube: https://www.youtube.com/@CitadelDispatchpodcast: https://serve.podhome.fm/CitadelDispatchstream sats to the show: https://www.fountain.fm/rock the badge: https://citadeldispatch.com/shopjoin the chat: https://citadeldispatch.com/chatlearn more about me: https://odell.xyz(00:02:15) Introduction and Show Overview(00:04:00) Discussion on Bitcoin's Utility and Adoption(00:09:17) Challenges and Opportunities in Bitcoin Wallets(00:12:25) Current State of Bitcoin and Institutional Adoption(00:17:23) Bitcoin++: Purpose and Impact(00:23:01) Developer Burnout and Community Building(00:28:01) Bitcoin++ Events and Global Reach(00:39:01) Mempools and Mining Discussion(00:52:04) Open Source Sustainability and Business Models(01:06:23) Cashu and Fedimint: Exploring Ecash(01:15:13) Advice for Aspiring Bitcoin Developers(01:22:05) Privacy in Bitcoin and Upcoming Events
This episode of Backstage focuses on the Impact Framework (IF), a pioneering tool designed to Model, Measure, siMulate, and Monitor the environmental impacts of software. By simplifying the process of calculating and sharing the carbon footprint of software, IF empowers developers to integrate sustainability into their workflows effortlessly. Recently achieving Graduated Project status within the Green Software Foundation, this framework has set a benchmark for sustainable practices in tech. Today, we're joined by Navveen Balani, Srinivasan Rakhunathan, the project leads and Joseph Cook, the Head of R&D at GSF and Product Owner for Impact Framework, to discuss the journey of the project, its innovative features, and how it's enabling developers and organizations to make meaningful contributions toward a greener future.
After our recap episode on 2024, it is time to look into 2025 - and share our predictions and even some rather spicy hot takes what developers can expect in 2025. Of course, Michael and Alex once again have the Nuxt team Lead Daniel Roe on the show to get some insights on his takes as well! Find out more about their thoughts on Vue Vapor, Nuxt 4, Conferences, Alien Signals, Vue 4, Nitro and many more topics that will be (most likely) relevant in this year.While the focus is mainly Vue and Nuxt, topics around general Web Development are covered too - from AI to Open Source and the job market in 2025.Enjoy the Episode!Our GuestDaniel RoeBlueskyWebYouTubeTwitchChapters(00:00) - Welcome to DejaVue (01:21) - Daniel's Injuries and Accessibility (03:13) - Fake teeth and other foolery (04:10) - Biomodding your teeth (06:25) - Is 2025 the year of Nuxt 4? (11:49) - React Metaframeworks and the year of Nitro? (17:28) - Course Announcements (21:41) - No more Vinxi in 2025? (26:03) - A prediction from the future (31:14) - Will 2025 shift Open Source Sustainability... (32:08) - ...driven by the WordPress incident? (36:37) - Why hasn't there been a WordPress fork? (39:10) - More amazing Conferences coming in 2025? (42:55) - Vue Vapor in 2025 (47:56) - The Year of AI Agents? (53:10) - Alien Signals Adoption in the JS World (54:14) - Vue 4 coming in 2025? (55:17) - A Unified JavaScript Toolchain in 2025? (56:12) - The Developer Job Market in 2025 (01:00:21) - What are you predictions for 2025? (01:00:56) - Daniel's info and Alex' last prediction Links and ResourcesAccessibility ChartState of JS SurveyAlex' Video on State Of JS through the Vue lenseDaniel's upcoming React to Nuxt courseMastering Nuxt (3 at the time of recording)*Alex' upcoming Nitro CourseBadass Courses' Course Builder RepoVinxiNikhil's tweetNIH tendencyXKCD standardsthanks.devOpen Source PledgeMadVuePragVueKazupon's Tweet on Vapor with other FrameworksMeta on Large Concept ModelsYour HostsAlexander LichterBlueskyYouTubeWebsiteMichael ThiessenTwitterYouTubeWebsite---Links marked with * are affiliate links. We get a small commission when you register for the service through our link. This helps us to keep the podcast running. We only include affiliate links for services mentioned in the episode or that we use ourselves.
In this episode of Open Talk on Open Source, hosts Courtney and Robert recap WordCamp Europe, highlighting open source sustainability and community challenges.
Dawn Foster, Director of Data Science for the CHAOSS Project, joins us to discuss the pressing issue of open source project health and sustainability. Dawn offers a look into the CHAOSS Project, aimed at improving open source project health through analytics and metrics. She emphasizes the importance of community participation, the challenges of maintaining project health, especially in the face of single organization dominance, and the issue of contributor sustainability. Dawn also touches on her academic research on the Linux kernel, exploring communication and collaboration within the project. The conversation underlines the significance of strategic contributor engagement from businesses to ensure the longevity and success of open source projects that are vital to their operations. 00:00 Introduction 00:17 Open Source and Data Science 02:25 the CHAOSS Project 03:22 Identifying and Addressing Project Health Red Flags 05:33 The Elephant Problem: Navigating Single Organization Dominance 09:32 CHAOSS Project Tools: Augur and GrimoireLab 12:56 The Importance of Data and Privacy in Open Source Communities 13:55 Insights from Research on the Linux Kernel Collaboration 21:24 The Future of Open Source: Sustainability and Viability 27:47 Closing Thoughts on Contributor Sustainability Resources: Home - CHAOSS Guest: Dr. Dawn Foster works as the Director of Data Science for CHAOSS where she is also a board member / maintainer. She is co-chair of CNCF TAG Contributor Strategy and an OpenUK board member. She has 20+ years of experience at companies like VMware and Intel with expertise in community, strategy, governance, metrics, and more. She has spoken at over 100 industry events and has a BS in computer science, an MBA, and a PhD. In her spare time she enjoys reading science fiction, running, and traveling.
Welcome back to another episode of the Laravel podcast! In this episode, we dive into the exciting release of Laravel 11 and discuss its impact since it has been out in the wild. Taylor also shares his insights on the release and other recent developments in the Laravel ecosystem, including the launch of Herd Pro. Additionally, we discuss the new hires at Laravel, including Andre Valentin, Chris Fadao, Mohammed Said, and Alyssa Mazzina and touch on the topic of open-source sustainability.Taylor Otwell's Twitter - https://twitter.com/taylorotwellMatt Stauffer's Twitter - https://twitter.com/stauffermattLaravel Twitter - https://twitter.com/laravelphpLaravel Website - https://laravel.com/Tighten Website - https://tighten.com/Laravel 11 - https://laravel.com/docs/11.x/releasesLaravel Careers - https://laravel.com/careersLaravel Reverb - https://laravel.com/docs/master/reverbLaravel Herd - https://herd.laravel.com/Laravel Herd for Windows - https://herd.laravel.com/windowsLaravel Valet - https://laravel.com/docs/11.x/valetChristoph Rumpel Forge Productivity Tweet: https://x.com/christophrumpel/status/1773738874264600608?s=20Andre Valentin Twitter - @theandreval Laravel Director of EngineeringChris Fidao Twitter - @fideloper Laravel Infrastructure EngineerMohammed Said Twitter - @themsaidAlyssa Mazzina Twitter - @alyssamazzinaLaragon - https://laragon.org/Django - https://www.djangoproject.com/Spatie - https://spatie.be/Laracon US - https://laracon.us/-----Editing and transcription sponsored by Tighten.
In this episode of the Hacking Open Source Business Podcast, Scarf CEO Avi Press and HOSS Matt Yonkovit are joined by Kaj Arnö, CEO of the MariaDB Foundation. They discuss the challenges of managing support expectations in open source projects, including balancing limited resources with important user requests, how non-profit organizations like the Wikimedia Foundation align with open-source goals, and why many organizations use open-source software but don't support it financially.Kaj also discusses the importance of community in open source sustainability and the need for companies to sponsor or promote the software they rely on. Then also delves into the systemic problems in the open source community, the business logic and ethics of open source, and the societal issues contributing to the lack of support. Tune in to learn how you can help contribute to open source sustainability.In this episode, Kaj shares some interesting takes aways, including:Users of open source software expect it to be open and free, but not necessarily supportedOrganizations that understand and prioritize open source often make reasonable requests for supportBalancing limited resources with important user requests can be challenging in open source projectsNon-profits like the Wikimedia Foundation are often aligned with open-source goalsMany organizations use open-source software but don't support it financiallyOpen source sustainability is dependent on sponsoring and promoting the communityLack of support is a systemic problem in the open source communitySeparating business and open source entities can lead to success in open source projectsEffective open source strategies involve balancing commercial goals and community valuesIndirect metrics like website traffic and brand recognition are used to measure adoption in open source projects.Checkout our other interviews, clips, and videos: https://l.hosbp.com/YoutubeDon't forget to visit the open source business community at: https://opensourcemetrics.org/Visit our primary sponsor, Scarf, for tools to help analyze your #opensource growth and adoption: https://about.scarf.sh/Subscribe to the podcast on your favorite app:Spotify: https://l.hosbp.com/SpotifyApple: https://l.hosbp.com/AppleGoogle: https://l.hosbp.com/GoogleBuzzsprout: https://l.hosbp.com/Buzzsprout#opensource #opensourcesoftware #business #podcast #mariadb #OpenSource #mariadbfoundation #foss #database #opensourcefoundation #openCheckout our other interviews, clips, and videos: https://l.hosbp.com/YoutubeDon't forget to visit the open-source business community at: https://opensourcebusiness.community/Visit our primary sponsor, Scarf, for tools to help analyze your #opensource growth and adoption: https://about.scarf.sh/Subscribe to the podcast on your favorite app:Spotify: https://l.hosbp.com/SpotifyApple: https://l.hosbp.com/AppleGoogle: https://l.hosbp.com/GoogleBuzzsprout: https://l.hosbp.com/Buzzsprout
In this special live episode you'll learn how the the man leading the revolution in brewing technology for the biggest company on the planet believes that cheeper, better and greener beer is possible for all.Recorded in the historic Irish College in Leuven, Belgium, in front of a large audience of Business of Beverages listeners, Will and special guest co-host, Susan Boyle talk with David De Schutter, Global Vice President for Innovation and Technology Development for AB Inbev, the world's largest brewer. David leads a team of over 120 brewers, engineers, materials specialists, consumer analysts and neuro scientists as they try to find more efficient, sustainable and tastier ways to brew beers. David explains how AB Inbev have developed technology to reduce the carbon footprint of Brewhouse operations by 90% and how they have made this freely available to smaller brewers. Are there any catches?Please note that this is the second in a series of episodes that were recorded Live in Leuven as part of the first Business of Beverages roadshow which included, brewery tours, beer pairing dinners, brasserie visits and technical talks amongst other amazing adventures in the Beer Capital of Europe. If you want to talk to us about ideas and suggestions for our next roadshow destination & theme, please email bizbevpod@gmail.comSupport the show
Following the recent discovery of the log4j bug, a wide-spread security vulnerability, the tech community once again grapples with the issue of reliance on and maintenance of core technology that is largely maintained by unpaid volunteers. In this episode Steven chats with Andrea Aime and Ian Turton, both long-time open source developers working on widely-used geospatial technologies. The three discuss the challenges of motivation, maintenance, setting expectations, and sutainable community. A timely discussion for anyone contributing to or relying upon open source technologies. Show notes on the Geomob website, where you can also learn more about Geomob events and sign up for our monthly newsletter.
We talk about Open Source Sustainability, ProdSpec and Annealing, Darknet Diaries, Page it to the Limit, Distributed Systems and so on.
In this episode, Aaron Stannard, CTO and founder of Petabridge, and Rachel Appel, .NET Developer Advocate at JetBrains, discuss and debate open source sustainability with our host, Paul Everitt.
In this episode of the podcast, Grizz "sits down" with Colin Eberhardt, Technology Director at Scott Logic about his upcoming talk at the Open Source Strategy Forum in London October 5th. They discuss Colin's background, modern software supply chain issues, and then how to drive open source to be more sustainable, for financial services and beyond. Open Source Sustainability and Our Corporate Social Responsibility - Colin Eberhardt, Scott Logic Modern software is increasingly complex, made up of hundreds or thousands of open source components, hidden away in deeply-nested dependency trees. Just how much do we know about these open source components that are an integral part of our products? What are the risks associated with their usage, and our exposure? Within the financial services industry, most often the solution is to build up a robust defence against these perils. Security scans, licence checkers - creating a walled-garden that harm the wider open source ecosystem. In this talk Colin will take a closer look at the make-up of modern software supply chains - where this code comes from, who authored it and how it is distributed. Ultimately asking ourselves the question “is this sustainable?” Despite numerous efforts to address this challenge; crowdfunding, sponsorship and highlighting critical infrastructure projects, this problem is growing. To solve it we need a reset in how we view this precious and fragile asset. Much like the environment, grass-roots activism can only go so far, to really make a difference large corporations need to wake up to their responsibility and make genuine and tangible commitments. Colin divides his time between leading the R&D team and providing advisory consultancy to clients. Widely recognized as a thought leader, Colin has a reputation throughout development circles as an expert in mobile technologies. He has also directed the team that developed a Securities Lending System for one of the world's most instantly recognizable banks. A published author, blogger and tech visionary, Colin still finds time to practice his considerable skills as a 7-ball juggler. Books Mentioned in the Podcast Working in Public: The Making & Maintenance of Open Source Software - https://www.amazon.com/Working-Public-Making-Maintenance-Software/dp/0578675862 People Powered - Jono Bacon - https://www.amazon.com/People-Powered-Communities-Supercharge-Business/dp/1400214882 https://www.linkedin.com/in/colin-eberhardt-1464b4a/ OSSF London & NYC OSSF London Agenda | OSSF London Registration | More information about OSSF OSSF NYC Agenda | OSSF NYC Registration ►► Visit FINOS www.finos.org ►► Get In Touch: info@finos.org
Eric and Brandon jump and their soap box this episode to address the critical issues surrounding open source development, ongoing lifecycle management, securing the supply chain, and monetizing developers time. Destination Linux Network (https://destinationlinux.network) Sudo Show Website (https://sudo.show) Sponsor: Bitwarden (https://bitwarden.com/dln) Sponsor: Digital Ocean (https://do.co/dln-mongo) Sudo Show Swag (https://sudo.show/swag) Contact Us: DLN Discourse (https://sudo.show/discuss) Email Us! (mailto:contact@sudo.show) Sudo Matrix Room (https://sudo.show/matrix) Elementary AppCenter (https://appcenter.elementary.io) Tidelift: Finding #5: More than half of maintainers have quit or considered quitting, and here's why. (https://blog.tidelift.com/finding-5-more-than-half-of-maintainers-have-quit-or-considered-quitting-and-heres-why) Linux.Com: Measuring the Health of Open Source Communities (Blog) (https://www.linux.com/news/measuring-the-health-of-open-source-communities) MongoDB Switches Up Its Open Source License (https://techcrunch.com/2018/10/16/mongodb-switches-up-its-open-source-license/) Twitter: Brandon's Thread (https://twitter.com/dbrandonjohnson/status/1412608646882549761?s=20) Ars Technica: No, Open Source Audacity Audio Editor Is Not Spyware (https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2021/07/no-open-source-audacity-audio-editor-is-not-spyware/) Joplin Notes (https://joplinapp.org) Open Collective (https://opencollective.com) Chapters 00:00 Intro 00:42 Welcome 01:30 Sponsor - Digital Ocean 02:34 Sponsor - Bitwarden 04:03 The Open Source Problem 10:47 MongoDB and Elastic Search 15:19 Just Fork It 21:18 Development Isn't Just a Hobby 31:47 How Do We Fix FOSS? 41:07 Wrap Up
Deploy Friday: hot topics for cloud technologists and developers
The internet economy would not be what it is today without the influence and the value added by open source software. As software development in general has become more sophisticated, complex, and time-consuming, maintaining open source software has, too. Today we talk about the importance of funding open source software sustainably with Pia Mancini, Co-founder & CEO of Open Collective, and Luis Villa, Co-founder of Tidelift.Time vs. money in open sourceOpen source software is not exactly “free”. As Pia Mancini explains, “It's free in the sense that you do not have to pay for it in hard cash. But someone is paying for it with their time.”And as open source software has gotten more complex, it takes more time to develop and maintain it. Luis Villa adds, “When I first started, you could hack something useful and put it out there in a weekend. But now it can take decades or centuries of effort.”As Luis points out, having that time is also a function of privilege. “Part of why open source is even less diverse than software as a whole is because for a long time, it required a lot of economic privilege to get involved.”The current imbalance in the open source worldPia says the current ubiquitousness of open source is the result of a successful “battle” to convince companies of its value. But winning that battle has come with a cost. She explains, “There’s a huge imbalance between those who are using and profiting from open source software, and those who are creating but not profiting from it. And the lion’s share of the burden falls on the side of the maintainers.” Braiding sustainability into open source’s future Luis and Pia have a few ideas on how to remedy this imbalance and work towards a more sustainable open source future. For one, we can start thinking about sustainability more holistically. Pia says, “Sustainability is as much financial sustainability as it is sustainability of the community.” To make sure your project thrives as part of a sustainable community, Pia suggests:Good onboarding practices to make your project inviting to newbiesEngaging with others who regularly contribute and maintain open source projectsA well established core team to help you make decisions on governance of the projectTry Tidelift and Open Collective on Platform.sh today to bring sustainability and open source together.Platform.shLearn more about us.Get started with a free trial.Have a question? Get in touch!Platform.sh on social mediaTwitter @platformshTwitter (France): @platformsh_frLinkedIn: Platform.shLinkedIn (France): Platform.shFacebook: Platform.shWatch, listen, and subscribe to the Platform.sh Deploy Friday podcast:YouTubeApple PodcastsBuzzsproutPlatform.sh is a robust, reliable hosting platform that gives development teams the tools to build and scale applications efficiently. Whether you run one or one thousand websites, you can focus on creating features and functionality with your favorite tech stack and leave managing infrastructure and processes to us.
Panelists Allen "Gunner" Gunn | Eric Berry | Justin Dorfman | Richard Littauer Guest Erik Rasmussen Show Notes Hello and welcome to Sustain! Our special guest today is Erik Rasmussen, who’s the creator of Redux Form and Final Form, two of the most popular form state management libraries in the React ecosystem, which we will learn more about. Erik talks about his blog post on, “Open Source Sustainability,” which he wrote out of frustration. He has such a passion and positive attitude for open source, but there are things that bother him as well, which he discusses. We learn that looking for contributions from larger organizations is an issue without the marketing aspect and maybe what can be done to help. Also, Eric Berry shares his vision of the future in open source which is pretty awesome! Download this episode now to find out more! [00:01:06] Erik tells us what he does and how he got invited on this podcast. We also learn what Redux Form and Final Form do. [00:05:13] Find out what Erik meant when he said it “balloons and it was too much,” but he also said he enjoys maintaining open source. He also talks about his blog post he wrote a couple of months ago and what bothers him about open source. [00:08:52] Eric wonders if the sustainability of open source depends on people like Erik because of his positive attitude and have any large companies reached out to him to support him in any way. [00:10:14] Justin asks if Erik if his library is on a dependency tree or people go NPM and install your library. Also, Justin wonders what Erik’s going to do to improve in getting the message out there that he’s looking for contributions from larger organizations. [00:16:02] Eric is curious if money was never part of the equation and if Erik could never make a dime off of this, how would that change his outlook on open source and the projects that he puts out, and would he continue to maintain them. [00:17:24] Eric tells us his vision of the future in open source. ☺ [00:20:25] Richard mentions in one of Erik’s blog posts he talks about how the donation model doesn’t work, but works partially for some people, and he also mentions an insurance model and Erik elaborates his envision. [00:23:57] Richard asks if Erik has any hope and if he’s going to keep working on open source. [00:25:20] Erik tells us where we can find him on the internet. Spotlight [00:26:15] Eric’s spotlight is PgHero by Andrew Kane. [00:27:02] Justin’s spotlight is Dato, better menu bar clock with calendar and time zones for macOS. [00:27:43] Richard’s spotlight is Etymonline.com. [00:28:20] Erik’s spotlight is the GraphQL Code Generator. Quotes [00:04:10] “And then as a maintainer, this was really my first foray into open source, I made some rookie mistakes of trying to please everyone.” [00:06:26] “I love open source and the fact that I can see that it is sort of rotten at its core bothers me, and what I mean by that is the incentives are misaligned from all sides.” [00:22:51] “It’s a little bit how our medical system, especially in the U.S. is broken, that your doctor makes more money the sicker you are, and it should be the opposite. We should pay doctors to keep you well and if you get sick then the doctor has to do some work. Same thing with open source, people should be paying for there not to be bugs, and if there are bugs expect because of that contract that they will be immediately fixed.” Links Erik Rasmussen Twitter (https://twitter.com/erikras) Final Form (https://final-form.org/) Redux Form (https://redux-form.com/8.3.0/) “Open Source Sustainability” blog post by Erik Rasmussen (https://dev.to/erikras/open-source-sustainability-3pjf) PgHero-GitHub (https://github.com/ankane/pghero) Dato (https://sindresorhus.com/dato) Etymonline (https://www.etymonline.com/) GraphQL Code Generator (https://graphql-code-generator.com/) Open Collective-SustainOSS (https://opencollective.com/sustainoss#budget) Open Collective-Ford Foundation General Support Grant (https://opencollective.com/ford-general-support-grant) Credits Produced by Richard Littauer (https://www.burntfen.com/) Edited by Paul M. Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Show notes by DeAnn Bahr at Peachtree Sound (https://www.peachtreesound.com/) Special Guest: Erik Rasmussen.
Matt Asay shares his journey through open source and behind-the-scenes stories on what gives these communities their strength: its people and their voices. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
A new report from Synopsys analyzes the use of open source components in commercial software, GitHub's fundraising program is now available for teams and projects, Mozilla appoints Adam Seligman as its new COO, Harbor becomes the first OCI-compliant container registry with its 2.0 release, and the Eclipse Foundation is moving to Belgium.
Sponsored By: Panelists Eric Berry | Pia Mancini | Justin Dorfman | Allen “Gunner” Gunn Guest Justin W. Flory (https://justinwflory.com/) Rochester Institute of Technology Show Notes In this episode we talk with Justin Flory, quite possibly the future of Open Source Sustainability. Justin fell into the Open Source world as a 15-year-old out of necessity while trying to build and maintain his Minecraft server. Justin currently attends the Rochester Institute of Technology, currently the only institute of higher learning offering a Free and Open Source Software and Free Culture minor. He is best known as an Open Source contributor in the U.S. 01:21: Justin Flory discusses his contribution to the Linux open source community and getting involved with his University’s open source program. 02:11: The driving force at an early age was playing Minecraft as a kid and wanting to have his own server to build a community to play with friends. This led to learning networking, system administration, and eventually drove him to some Minecraft open source software. It was there he helped out and eventually became a community manger. 07:32: Justin talks about the Spigot Project and how they funded it through a web store, contests, and donation drives. 09:18: While at RIT, he became more involved in the open source world through such things as the FOSS Initiative, Libre Corps, UNICEF, Open APS, Night Scout, and Sugarlabs, and the One Laptop per Child ecosystem. 12:51: Also at RIT, and as part of his minor, discusses his class on FOSS. 14:29: Breaks down the 2006 post on Linux.com by Bruce Byfield on why FOSS is not on activists’ agenda and how he was ahead of his time. 21:54: Justin talks about one of the sessions he went to at the Mozilla Festival in 2019 about the Extinction Rebellion. 23:40: Gunner joins in and Eric talks about the upcoming events in Brussels: Sustain, CHAOSS, and FOSDEM. Justin Flory and Michael Nolan will be speaking at FOSDEM and he gave us a preview of his “Freedom and AI” which will showcase the Four Essentials of Freedom. This will be held on Saturday, February 2, 2020. Spotlights • 34:24: Justin Dorfman spotlight this week is Tailwind CDN. • 34:55 Pia’s is Queer JS. • 35:43: Gunner picks the harden Linux movement, Tails OS, and Qube • 36:19: Eric brings back one of his old favorites, Mert by Brian Gonzalez • 36:52: Finally, Justin Flory picks Spigot, the open source Minecraft server software. Links Justin W Flory (https://twitter.com/jflory7) Rochester Institute of Technology (https://www.rit.edu/study/free-and-open-source-software-and-free-culture-minor) unicef (https://www.unicef.org/innovation/Magicbox) Libre Corps (https://fossrit.github.io/librecorps/) Justin's blog about Bruce Byfield’s post (https://blog.justinwflory.com/2019/12/why-foss-is-still-not-on-activist-agendas/) Why FOSS Isn’t On Activist Agendas (https://www.linux.com/news/why-foss-isnt-activist-agendas/) FOSDEM 2020 (https://fosdem.org/2020/schedule/event/ethical_ai/) Justin Flory's Sustain Summit 2018 Blog (https://blog.justinwflory.com/2018/11/sustain-oss-2018-quick-rewind/) Extinction Rebellion (https://rebellion.earth/) Tailwind CDN (https://tailwindcdn.com/) Queer JS (https://queerjs.com/) Tails OS (https://tails.boum.org/) Qubes (https://www.qubes-os.org/) Mert (https://github.com/eggplanetio/mert) Spigot Project (https://www.spigotmc.org/) Special Guest: Justin W. Flory.
In the world of open source, finding the cash to stay afloat while still being able to look at yourself in the mirror can be rough. Individual donations are pretty much a non-option and the ethical tradeoffs of paid advertising at the other end of the scale are hard to stomach. Our guest on the show today is Eric Holscher and as one of the co-founders of Read the Docs, sustaining an open-source project is a daily concern for him.
Sponsored By: Panelists Justin Dorfman | Eric Berry Guest Gidi (Gideon) Morris (https://twitter.com/chekofif) Principal software engineer at Elastic Show Notes 00:44 (/20?t=44): The special guest for this episode of Sustain is Gidi (Gideon) Morris. Gidi is the principal software engineer at Elastic and has been in the industry for about two decades now. 03:08 (/20?t=188): He discusses his worries within not just the open source world, but the entire tech industry. Justin furthers the questions that Gidi raise about the open source world and the various psychological impacts it can have on the employees, due to his own experience. Gideon address the pressures and shifts relating to newcomers in the industry, specifically focusing on the world of open source. He raises the two issues he’s concerned about which is why people come into the industry and how do we support them? And are we creating an environment where they’re burning themselves out the way I did? 06:45 (/20?t=405) Eric begins the discussion by addressing the term Gidi raises which is, burnout. He relates his own experience where he felt this way about his work in the past year and brings up Gidi current employer, Elastic. Eric talks about his time when he was working at a startup called Mahalo and he used a product called Elastic search. 07:45 (/20?t=465) The question was posted in IRC and it was answered in 30 seconds according to Eric, which he exclaims was very surprising and that it represented that healthy environment Gidi brought up. Eric says he’s heard the work on Elk Stack is the environment striving to prevent the burnout that Gidi raises issues about. 08:18 (/20?t=498) Gidi then goes into detail about how companies can prevent the burnout of their employers and how they can learn from companies, like Elastic. He explains Elastic and what they do, he says it mainly works on a product called Elastic search, which is a search engine as well as a variety of satellite products. 10:30 (/20?t=630) He also states that it’s also one of the biggest remote companies across the tech world. He joined because all of the development within Elastic is developed like an open source project. Gidi also discusses how well the communication is within the employers and the flexibility within the company. 12:50 (/20?t=770) Eric then moves the conversation to working in a remote company and the benefits and downsides that it can possess. Gidi explains how his team works across 5 different time zones. Eric then asks Gidi about licensing working on a source available product, which allows users to look at the source. 16:30 (/20?t=990) Gidi discusses the benefits of the open source project and the healthy environment it provides. There is nothing secretive about what's being done within the company which he states as being less limited than more limited. Gidi explains how there are certain folders that have what used to be closed source and are now source available. Eric agrees with Gidi in that the key to open source sustainability is licensing and being honest with customers and contributors. 22:01 (/20?t=1321) Gidi also brings up the recent dilemma about the expectations of the open-source community to shift without the help of those companies, which is where the dilemma comes up between balancing that and licensing agreements. Gidi explains some of the mistakes they’ve made along the way with the dual-licensing model, however it has mostly worked out for them in the end. Eric says that Elastic has taken a good approach to licensing with open source. 36:40 (/20?t=2096) Gideon ends the conversation explaining why he joined Elastic from the start. The main thing was the difference between a company being asynchronous and synchronous and that is what Elastic brought into question for him. He emphasized that if we as a community adopt these ways of working, there will be a big change in how others get involved with the open source community. 43:25 (/20?t=2485) Eric and Justin wrap up the conversation by discussing what they’re planning to do with every podcast, which is every podcast they share an open-source project or library that has provided value or an impact for their personal career or life. They spotlight Erik Rasmussen, Laravel Charts, and a charity called BEAM. Spotlights Gidi - Not an OS project, but plugging Beam (https://beam.org/) - a charity worth mentioning and founded by a fellow developer Eric - Final Form (https://final-form.org/) by Erik Rasmussen Justin - Laravel Charts (https://charts.erik.cat) Special Guest: Gidi Morris.
What takes an open source project from a hobby to international codebase that the world's top companies rely on? How do you balance the wishes of the individual, creative contributor with that of corporate-backed finance and governance? How do you make the open source community a welcoming one? Open source sustainability and all these questions were on the table when The New Stack Editor in Chief Alex Williams sat down at our first Makers broadcast from Shanghai, China, at the Open Source Summit. For senior staff engineer at VMWare, Bryan Liles, this sustainability is all about the intersection of different open source projects within broader ecosystems that have a strong balance of governance and motivated community. Dan Kohn, executive director of the Cloud Native Computing Foundation (CNCF), says open source sustainability relies on commitment to continue building, supporting and stabilizing core infrastructure and critical libraries for important upstream dependencies. He says the whole purpose of CNCF is that, when organizations recognize there's open source infrastructure that matters, there is a way to build a community that can financially and publicly support it moving forward. Watch on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4ZFlprmD7YA
Our guest today on The Rabbit Hole is Eric Holscher, who is the co-founder of Read the Docs and Write the Docs. Aiming to elevate the status of documentation in the software industry, Eric talks to us about the sacrifices he has had to make in serving the programming community, not getting paid and having thousands of people depending on him to keep the platform running smoothly.
Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan Triplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonus CacheFly Host: Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Shawn Clabough Episode Summary In this episode of My Angular Story, Charles hosts Shawn Clabough, Information Systems Manager and Senior Developer at Washington State University. Listen to Shawn on the podcast JavaScript Jabber on this episode. Shawn got interested in computers in high school. His first computer was a TRS-80. Upon graduating from Washington State University, he worked as an assistant buyer at a computer chain store before going back to university to receive further education as a programmer. He then got a job at the University of Idaho where he worked in web application development for 17 years before switching to Washington State University. Currently he is a senior developer and a developer manager at Washington State University. Shawn also works as a custom .NET application development consultant. Links JavaScript Jabber 258: Development in a Public Institution with Shawn Clabough Shawn's GitHub Shawn’s Twitter Shawn's LinkedIn Pathfinder Roleplaying Game https://www.facebook.com/DevChattv Picks Shawn Clabough: UtahJS Slack Group Utah .Net Slack Group Boise Code Camp Visual Studio 2019 Launch Event – Visual Studio Time Bandits The Movie (1981) Charles Max Wood: if you want to be a host on a podcast on devchat.tv on any of the below topics, contact Charles Max Wood Open Source Sustainability and Maintainability AI & Machine Learning Data Science Augmented Reality & Virtual Reality & Mixed Reality Internet of Things (IoT) Python .Net If you are interested in becoming a sponsor for any of the above topics or the existing podcasts on devchat.tv, contact Charles Max Wood If you are interested in being represented by Charles Max Wood for a sponsorship contract for a podcast in any of the above topics, contact Charles Max Wood If you were listening to a podcast in any of the above topics or any other programming related subject that ended abruptly within the last 6 months and would like it continued please contact Charles Max Wood. We would like to host these shows on devchat.tv. Most of time time podcasts stop being recorded due to lack of time or lack of money. Become a Podwrench Beta User! If you would like to host a podcast but do not want to do it on devchat.tv then Podwrench is for you! Podwrench is a complete podcasting system that allows you to manage your podcast and sponsorship contracts all in one place! Please contact Charles Max Wood for more info.
Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan Triplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonus CacheFly Host: Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Shawn Clabough Episode Summary In this episode of My Angular Story, Charles hosts Shawn Clabough, Information Systems Manager and Senior Developer at Washington State University. Listen to Shawn on the podcast JavaScript Jabber on this episode. Shawn got interested in computers in high school. His first computer was a TRS-80. Upon graduating from Washington State University, he worked as an assistant buyer at a computer chain store before going back to university to receive further education as a programmer. He then got a job at the University of Idaho where he worked in web application development for 17 years before switching to Washington State University. Currently he is a senior developer and a developer manager at Washington State University. Shawn also works as a custom .NET application development consultant. Links JavaScript Jabber 258: Development in a Public Institution with Shawn Clabough Shawn's GitHub Shawn’s Twitter Shawn's LinkedIn Pathfinder Roleplaying Game https://www.facebook.com/DevChattv Picks Shawn Clabough: UtahJS Slack Group Utah .Net Slack Group Boise Code Camp Visual Studio 2019 Launch Event – Visual Studio Time Bandits The Movie (1981) Charles Max Wood: if you want to be a host on a podcast on devchat.tv on any of the below topics, contact Charles Max Wood Open Source Sustainability and Maintainability AI & Machine Learning Data Science Augmented Reality & Virtual Reality & Mixed Reality Internet of Things (IoT) Python .Net If you are interested in becoming a sponsor for any of the above topics or the existing podcasts on devchat.tv, contact Charles Max Wood If you are interested in being represented by Charles Max Wood for a sponsorship contract for a podcast in any of the above topics, contact Charles Max Wood If you were listening to a podcast in any of the above topics or any other programming related subject that ended abruptly within the last 6 months and would like it continued please contact Charles Max Wood. We would like to host these shows on devchat.tv. Most of time time podcasts stop being recorded due to lack of time or lack of money. Become a Podwrench Beta User! If you would like to host a podcast but do not want to do it on devchat.tv then Podwrench is for you! Podwrench is a complete podcasting system that allows you to manage your podcast and sponsorship contracts all in one place! Please contact Charles Max Wood for more info.
Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan Triplebyte offers a $1000 signing bonus CacheFly Host: Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Shawn Clabough Episode Summary In this episode of My Angular Story, Charles hosts Shawn Clabough, Information Systems Manager and Senior Developer at Washington State University. Listen to Shawn on the podcast JavaScript Jabber on this episode. Shawn got interested in computers in high school. His first computer was a TRS-80. Upon graduating from Washington State University, he worked as an assistant buyer at a computer chain store before going back to university to receive further education as a programmer. He then got a job at the University of Idaho where he worked in web application development for 17 years before switching to Washington State University. Currently he is a senior developer and a developer manager at Washington State University. Shawn also works as a custom .NET application development consultant. Links JavaScript Jabber 258: Development in a Public Institution with Shawn Clabough Shawn's GitHub Shawn’s Twitter Shawn's LinkedIn Pathfinder Roleplaying Game https://www.facebook.com/DevChattv Picks Shawn Clabough: UtahJS Slack Group Utah .Net Slack Group Boise Code Camp Visual Studio 2019 Launch Event – Visual Studio Time Bandits The Movie (1981) Charles Max Wood: if you want to be a host on a podcast on devchat.tv on any of the below topics, contact Charles Max Wood Open Source Sustainability and Maintainability AI & Machine Learning Data Science Augmented Reality & Virtual Reality & Mixed Reality Internet of Things (IoT) Python .Net If you are interested in becoming a sponsor for any of the above topics or the existing podcasts on devchat.tv, contact Charles Max Wood If you are interested in being represented by Charles Max Wood for a sponsorship contract for a podcast in any of the above topics, contact Charles Max Wood If you were listening to a podcast in any of the above topics or any other programming related subject that ended abruptly within the last 6 months and would like it continued please contact Charles Max Wood. We would like to host these shows on devchat.tv. Most of time time podcasts stop being recorded due to lack of time or lack of money. Become a Podwrench Beta User! If you would like to host a podcast but do not want to do it on devchat.tv then Podwrench is for you! Podwrench is a complete podcasting system that allows you to manage your podcast and sponsorship contracts all in one place! Please contact Charles Max Wood for more info.
Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan CacheFly Host: Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Shawn Clabough Episode Summary In this episode of My JavaScript Story, Charles hosts Shawn Clabough, Information Systems Manager and Senior Developer at Washington State University. Listen to Shawn on the podcast JavaScript Jabber on this episode. Shawn got interested in computers in high school. His first computer was a TRS-80. Upon graduating from Washington State University, he worked as an assistant buyer at a computer chain store before going back to university to receive further education as a programmer. He then got a job at the University of Idaho where he worked in web application development for 17 years before switching to Washington State University. Currently he is a senior developer and a developer manager at Washington State University. Shawn also works as a custom .NET application development consultant. Links JavaScript Jabber 258: Development in a Public Institution with Shawn Clabough Shawn's GitHub Shawn’s Twitter Shawn's LinkedIn Pathfinder Roleplaying Game https://devchat.tv/my-javascript-story/ https://www.facebook.com/DevChattv Picks Shawn Clabough: UtahJS Slack Group Utah .Net Slack Group Boise Code Camp Visual Studio 2019 Launch Event - Visual Studio Time Bandits The Movie (1981) Charles Max Wood: if you want to be a host on a podcast on tv on any of the below topics, contact Charles Max Wood Open Source Sustainability and Maintainability AI & Machine Learning Data Science Augmented Reality & Virtual Reality & Mixed Reality Internet of Things (IoT) Python .Net If you are interested in becoming a sponsor for any of the above topics or the existing podcasts on devchat.tv, contact Charles Max Wood If you are interested in being represented by Charles Max Wood for a sponsorship contract for a podcast in any of the above topics, contact Charles Max Wood If you were listening to a podcast in any of the above topics or any other programming related subject that ended abruptly within the last 6 months and would like it continued please contact Charles Max Wood. We would like to host these shows on devchat.tv. Most of time time podcasts stop being recorded due to lack of time or lack of money. Become a Podwrench Beta User! If you would like to host a podcast but do not want to do it on tv then Podwrench is for you! Podwrench is a complete podcasting system that allows you to manage your podcast and sponsorship contracts all in one place! Please contact Charles Max Wood for more info.
Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan CacheFly Host: Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Shawn Clabough Episode Summary In this episode of My JavaScript Story, Charles hosts Shawn Clabough, Information Systems Manager and Senior Developer at Washington State University. Listen to Shawn on the podcast JavaScript Jabber on this episode. Shawn got interested in computers in high school. His first computer was a TRS-80. Upon graduating from Washington State University, he worked as an assistant buyer at a computer chain store before going back to university to receive further education as a programmer. He then got a job at the University of Idaho where he worked in web application development for 17 years before switching to Washington State University. Currently he is a senior developer and a developer manager at Washington State University. Shawn also works as a custom .NET application development consultant. Links JavaScript Jabber 258: Development in a Public Institution with Shawn Clabough Shawn's GitHub Shawn’s Twitter Shawn's LinkedIn Pathfinder Roleplaying Game https://devchat.tv/my-javascript-story/ https://www.facebook.com/DevChattv Picks Shawn Clabough: UtahJS Slack Group Utah .Net Slack Group Boise Code Camp Visual Studio 2019 Launch Event - Visual Studio Time Bandits The Movie (1981) Charles Max Wood: if you want to be a host on a podcast on tv on any of the below topics, contact Charles Max Wood Open Source Sustainability and Maintainability AI & Machine Learning Data Science Augmented Reality & Virtual Reality & Mixed Reality Internet of Things (IoT) Python .Net If you are interested in becoming a sponsor for any of the above topics or the existing podcasts on devchat.tv, contact Charles Max Wood If you are interested in being represented by Charles Max Wood for a sponsorship contract for a podcast in any of the above topics, contact Charles Max Wood If you were listening to a podcast in any of the above topics or any other programming related subject that ended abruptly within the last 6 months and would like it continued please contact Charles Max Wood. We would like to host these shows on devchat.tv. Most of time time podcasts stop being recorded due to lack of time or lack of money. Become a Podwrench Beta User! If you would like to host a podcast but do not want to do it on tv then Podwrench is for you! Podwrench is a complete podcasting system that allows you to manage your podcast and sponsorship contracts all in one place! Please contact Charles Max Wood for more info.
Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan CacheFly Host: Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Shawn Clabough Episode Summary In this episode of My JavaScript Story, Charles hosts Shawn Clabough, Information Systems Manager and Senior Developer at Washington State University. Listen to Shawn on the podcast JavaScript Jabber on this episode. Shawn got interested in computers in high school. His first computer was a TRS-80. Upon graduating from Washington State University, he worked as an assistant buyer at a computer chain store before going back to university to receive further education as a programmer. He then got a job at the University of Idaho where he worked in web application development for 17 years before switching to Washington State University. Currently he is a senior developer and a developer manager at Washington State University. Shawn also works as a custom .NET application development consultant. Links JavaScript Jabber 258: Development in a Public Institution with Shawn Clabough Shawn's GitHub Shawn’s Twitter Shawn's LinkedIn Pathfinder Roleplaying Game https://devchat.tv/my-javascript-story/ https://www.facebook.com/DevChattv Picks Shawn Clabough: UtahJS Slack Group Utah .Net Slack Group Boise Code Camp Visual Studio 2019 Launch Event - Visual Studio Time Bandits The Movie (1981) Charles Max Wood: if you want to be a host on a podcast on tv on any of the below topics, contact Charles Max Wood Open Source Sustainability and Maintainability AI & Machine Learning Data Science Augmented Reality & Virtual Reality & Mixed Reality Internet of Things (IoT) Python .Net If you are interested in becoming a sponsor for any of the above topics or the existing podcasts on devchat.tv, contact Charles Max Wood If you are interested in being represented by Charles Max Wood for a sponsorship contract for a podcast in any of the above topics, contact Charles Max Wood If you were listening to a podcast in any of the above topics or any other programming related subject that ended abruptly within the last 6 months and would like it continued please contact Charles Max Wood. We would like to host these shows on devchat.tv. Most of time time podcasts stop being recorded due to lack of time or lack of money. Become a Podwrench Beta User! If you would like to host a podcast but do not want to do it on tv then Podwrench is for you! Podwrench is a complete podcasting system that allows you to manage your podcast and sponsorship contracts all in one place! Please contact Charles Max Wood for more info.
Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan .TECH– tech/MRS and use the coupon code “MRS.TECH” and get a 1 year .TECH Domain at $9.99 and 5 Year Domain at $49.99. Hurry! CacheFly Host: Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Tung Nguyen Episode Summary In this episode of My Ruby Story, Charles hosts Tung Nguyen, President and Founder of BoltOps AWS Cloud Infrastructure Consultancy, a Bay Area based DevOps infrastructure consultancy. Tung is also the creator of Ruby on Jets. Listen to Tung on the podcast Ruby Rogues here. Tung majored in Electrical Engineering in college but didn’t really enjoy working as an electrical engineer so decided to teach himself programming. He started with Perl language and eventually switched to Ruby. Currently Tung is working full time for BoltOps consultancy and develops and maintains Ruby on Jets along with other open source projects. When he is not working, Tung takes care of his 3 children. Listen to the show to find out more about Tung’s journey as a developer and what he thinks the pros and cons of working from home are. Links How to Pronounce Nguyen - YouTube Ruby Rogues 399: Jets Ruby Serverless Framework with Tung Nguyen Tung's LinkedIn Tung's GitHub Tung's Twitter Tung's YouTube Channel BoltOps BoltOps Nuts and Bolts Blog https://devchat.tv/my-ruby-story/ https://www.facebook.com/DevChattv Picks Tung Nguyen: The Children Learning Reading Opal: Ruby to JavaScript Compiler Charles Max Wood: Podwrench – Podcast Management System Podcast Booth Looking for hosts for podcasts on topics below Open Source Sustainability and Maintainability AI & Machine Learning Data Science Augmented Reality & Virtual Reality & Mixed Reality Internet of Things (IoT) Python .Net Buzzsprout.com
Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan .TECH– tech/MRS and use the coupon code “MRS.TECH” and get a 1 year .TECH Domain at $9.99 and 5 Year Domain at $49.99. Hurry! CacheFly Host: Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Tung Nguyen Episode Summary In this episode of My Ruby Story, Charles hosts Tung Nguyen, President and Founder of BoltOps AWS Cloud Infrastructure Consultancy, a Bay Area based DevOps infrastructure consultancy. Tung is also the creator of Ruby on Jets. Listen to Tung on the podcast Ruby Rogues here. Tung majored in Electrical Engineering in college but didn’t really enjoy working as an electrical engineer so decided to teach himself programming. He started with Perl language and eventually switched to Ruby. Currently Tung is working full time for BoltOps consultancy and develops and maintains Ruby on Jets along with other open source projects. When he is not working, Tung takes care of his 3 children. Listen to the show to find out more about Tung’s journey as a developer and what he thinks the pros and cons of working from home are. Links How to Pronounce Nguyen - YouTube Ruby Rogues 399: Jets Ruby Serverless Framework with Tung Nguyen Tung's LinkedIn Tung's GitHub Tung's Twitter Tung's YouTube Channel BoltOps BoltOps Nuts and Bolts Blog https://devchat.tv/my-ruby-story/ https://www.facebook.com/DevChattv Picks Tung Nguyen: The Children Learning Reading Opal: Ruby to JavaScript Compiler Charles Max Wood: Podwrench – Podcast Management System Podcast Booth Looking for hosts for podcasts on topics below Open Source Sustainability and Maintainability AI & Machine Learning Data Science Augmented Reality & Virtual Reality & Mixed Reality Internet of Things (IoT) Python .Net Buzzsprout.com
Sponsors Sentry use the code “devchat” for 2 months free on Sentry small plan .TECH– tech/MRS and use the coupon code “MRS.TECH” and get a 1 year .TECH Domain at $9.99 and 5 Year Domain at $49.99. Hurry! CacheFly Host: Charles Max Wood Special Guest: Tung Nguyen Episode Summary In this episode of My Ruby Story, Charles hosts Tung Nguyen, President and Founder of BoltOps AWS Cloud Infrastructure Consultancy, a Bay Area based DevOps infrastructure consultancy. Tung is also the creator of Ruby on Jets. Listen to Tung on the podcast Ruby Rogues here. Tung majored in Electrical Engineering in college but didn’t really enjoy working as an electrical engineer so decided to teach himself programming. He started with Perl language and eventually switched to Ruby. Currently Tung is working full time for BoltOps consultancy and develops and maintains Ruby on Jets along with other open source projects. When he is not working, Tung takes care of his 3 children. Listen to the show to find out more about Tung’s journey as a developer and what he thinks the pros and cons of working from home are. Links How to Pronounce Nguyen - YouTube Ruby Rogues 399: Jets Ruby Serverless Framework with Tung Nguyen Tung's LinkedIn Tung's GitHub Tung's Twitter Tung's YouTube Channel BoltOps BoltOps Nuts and Bolts Blog https://devchat.tv/my-ruby-story/ https://www.facebook.com/DevChattv Picks Tung Nguyen: The Children Learning Reading Opal: Ruby to JavaScript Compiler Charles Max Wood: Podwrench – Podcast Management System Podcast Booth Looking for hosts for podcasts on topics below Open Source Sustainability and Maintainability AI & Machine Learning Data Science Augmented Reality & Virtual Reality & Mixed Reality Internet of Things (IoT) Python .Net Buzzsprout.com
Joining us this week is Scott Lowe, Staff Field Engineer at Heptio recorded at Interop ITX 2018. Scott is well known for his impact on virtualization and VMware, follow him at his weblog and podcast called The Full Stack Journey. Highlights • Coming new to container space and view of infrastructure within the stack • Why he chose Heptio and its transition up the stack away from virtualization • Heptio strategy? Open source based • Commercial strategy to support open source in Kubernetes • Monetization of open source projects challenges • Building applications to run on “standard” Kubernetes
Open source sustainability has been nothing short of an oxymoron. Engineers around the world pour their sweat and frankly, their hearts into these passion projects that undergird all software in the modern internet economy. In exchange, they ask for nothing in return except for recognition and help in keeping their projects alive and improving them. It's an incredible movement of decentralized voluntarism and represents humanity at its best.
In episode 168 we talk with Webform Module maintainer, Jake Rockowitz, about open source sustainability. www.TalkingDrupa.com/168 Agenda What is open source sustainability The path - YML and Webform Module Sustainability Different approaches to monetize Sponsor a feature Open source clauses for contracts SaaS Wordpress module approach Mentoring approach Drupal Association Messaging Resources Jasob Rockowitz website Yes, the contribute module is making a statement My three mistakes in regards to the Contribute module A handy guide to financial support for open source Request For Commits Why Paid Drupal Modules Fail: Drupal as Art Open Collective Hosts Stephen Cross - www.ParallaxInfoTech.com @stephencross John Picozzi - www.oomphinc.com @johnpicozzi Nic Laflin - www.nLighteneddevelopment.com @nicxvan Jacob Rockwitz - https://www.jrockowitz.com @jrockowitz
Joining us this week is Mark Imbriaco, Global CTO DevOps, Pivotal. Mark’s view of ops and open source from a platform perspective as it relates to SRE offers listeners a high-level approach to these concepts that is not often heard. Highlights • Site Reliability Engineering – Introduction and Advanced Discussion • Edge Computing from Platform View • Open Source Projects vs Products and Sustainability • Monetization of Open Source Matters
In this episode Michael Jackson talks with Henry Zhu, maintainer of the hugely popular Babel project, about open source sustainability and what's coming next for the Babel project.
In this episode Michael Jackson talks with Henry Zhu, maintainer of the hugely popular Babel project, about open source sustainability and what’s coming next for the Babel project.
Audrey Eschright: @ameschright | The Recompiler Show Notes: 00:50 - Background in Publishing and Open Source 06:53 - The Contributor Pool 12:37 - Open Source Bridge 15:29 - Mistakes Open Source Contributors Make 17:21 - Tools for Maintaining an Open Source Project 19:09 - Roles 23:33 - Open Source Bridge (Cont'd) 27:47 - Governance and Decision-Making 36:20 - Making Open Source Accessible, Safe, and Welcoming Resources: Free Geek Calagator PDX Activist Dreamwidth Safety First PDX Open Source Bridge: Enter the coupon code PODCAST to get $50 off a ticket! The conference will be held June 20-23, 2017 at The Eliot Center in downtown Portland, Oregon. Transcript: CHARLES: Hello, everybody and welcome to The Frontside Podcast, Episode #71. My name is Charles Lowell. I'm a developer here at The Frontside. With me also is Joe LaSala. JOE: Hello. CHARLES: Hey, Joe, another developer here at The Frontside. With us today is the publisher of The Recompiler Mag and a long-time open source contributor Audrey Eschright. Welcome Audrey. AUDREY: Hey! CHARLES: Thanks for being on the show. AUDREY: Oh, thank you. CHARLES: Today, we're going to be talking about open source and in particular, the labor that goes into open source and making that sustainable but before we get into that, I wanted to first talk about your background, both in terms of how you came to be publishing the magazine and also your background on open source, how we're arriving at the subject today. AUDREY: The magazine, in a lot of ways, I refer to it as a feminist hacker magazine. It holds together a lot of different things that I've worked on over the years so I'm going to jump all the way back to when I first encountered open source and then maybe that will fit together. When I was in high school, I first encountered the internet and the internet that was available to me at that time use things like Gopher. Gopher is a pretty web protocol and it was free software. I didn't really understand that it was free software at that point but I did understand that if I wanted to learn how to write code and the computer that I have access to were things like a bunch of really old PCs like 286's and an old Macintosh. Then there were commercial compilers for writing code and there were free compilers for writing code. There was a thing called GCC and I knew that it was on university computers and if I got access to those, then I could write code. Then I got to college and write about when open source really started to take off as this concept of how free software comes into business world. I've had that as a background of becoming a programmer and getting involved in things but after college I wasn't really sure that I want to work in technology so I took a break. When I came back, I needed a way to get myself up to date so I started volunteering with this local group called Free Geek that recycles computers. What they do is they take those computer parts and the ones that are usable, they build them into Linux boxes for people, like Linux desktop boxes. How I got back up and running was learning how to work and volunteering in an organization that was very open source based, like all of the tools that they used are just completely open source. CHARLES: Was that for budgetary reasons or they didn't want the people to burden the recipients of these computers with any licensing fees or obligations to third parties? AUDREY: It's budgetary but it's also ideological. The organization was started out of environmental interests. The original folks, they pointed to us this computer monitor that they [inaudible] as the reason that they do this, that the way computer waste is being handled was so unfriendly that you might as well just dump it in the river. They started from there but I think because those kinds of interests of creating something that was really accessible for people are really educational and accessible to lower income patrons has always been a really big part of it. I think that using Linux and using open source tools has been a big part of that. CHARLES: I think open source is so pervasive, a lot of people forget that in those days, there was a lot of radical thinking behind it, of radical accessibility like it's your basic right to be able to access every layer of your stack. It's a little bit unfortunate that you mentioned GCC that like the GNU, the Free Software Foundation isn't as much part of the conversation as they were back then. AUDREY: Yeah. I think that as more people come in to, we've shifted through these different generations basically in open source contribution and how it's formulated. The fact that I even default to open source is really interesting because a lot of the values that I referencing are those free software values. CHARLES: Fast forward to the present... AUDREY: Part of how I built my skills was by starting open source projects called Calagator. It's a community calendaring platform that makes it very easy to import things from other sources like Facebook. It's interesting, it wasn't our primary thing but it's so big now. We've been doing this for 10 years so a lot of recent change around us. We have a 10-year old [inaudible] app that is still up and running and is now in Rails engine. CHARLES: Wow. Is this an application that you can run yourself or when you say it's an engine, if I've got a Rails app, I can just drop it into any Rails app? AUDREY: Yeah, that was a direction we decided to go in a couple of years ago because my experience was that handing people in Rails app and saying, "Go fork it and then go sell it and use it in your community." That's a pretty big technical burden. At least, as an engine, it makes it a little bit more flexible for people to really come in and make some of those changes. We can bootstrap a little bit more for them. CHARLES: It's always funny to me know how some projects always run off the fork model, like there's a lot of HTML starters or editor starters where the thing is you fork it. I always hate that model because eventually, you ended up having to do this terrible dance with the upstream in order to jump around the changes that are coming through and stuff. AUDREY: Yeah and that was definitely one of the problems that we would run into. We would make changes to functionality and the frontend and the visual display of it. It was really difficult for people to pick and choose the parts that were useful for them. CHARLES: Yeah. Okay, so you've got a 10-year old Rails applications/engine, now you are actually running an instance of this engine yourself or just maintaining the open source? AUDREY: Yeah, there's actually two of them, that I'm in involved with right now. One of them is that Calagator.org. It's a Portland's techs events calendar. That was really our original site and the reason that we created this. The other one just as of a few months ago is PDXActivist.org and that is a way to get a lot of activism and political organizing off of Facebook, basically. That's really our primary target. It's just getting people an alternative to using Facebook for all of their events. CHARLES: I see. Now, having to maintain an open source project for 10 years, that's a really, really long time. AUDREY: Yeah. CHARLES: How big is the community now and how many different users have you seen as you developed this? AUDREY: Well, it's a little hard to tell. We deliberately don't do a lot of tracking, especially on PDX Activist side. I can tell you that there are a lot of events on both calendars. For the tech events, there are probably five things that you can do on any given day, maybe 10. During design week, they put all that on there too. This has been very consistent over the history of the project. I can also tell you that we've had dozens of contributors. CHARLES: Yeah, that's more what I meant when I said users. Not necessarily the consumers of the calendar but the consumers of the software that makes the calendar. AUDREY: It goes without saying that I think that those users are creating events, they are part of that because they help curate content. Like with the wiki, your user base isn't just the people who update MediaWiki. It's that people who really work on the content too. We've had dozens of people. There's a contributor's file that I didn't pull up but we can go and look at it. We made a point of crediting everybody who contributed at Code Sprint, whether or not they check in code. We have a really great documentation over the history of the project about how the different ways that people contributed and who they are. CHARLES: Yeah. I feel like that's something that often goes missing in projects, especially open source projects that you find on GitHub where there's so many people that are involved in creating software beyond just what you see in the commit history. It's kind of a poor showing of what it was all involved in the whole creative act. Sure, it's an accurate reflection if it's a one-person project who's hacking away on weekends but as your project scales, there's a lot of different stuff going on. AUDREY: Yeah, definitely. I think the other part that's really interesting for me about this is that I can point to that big contributor pool, people who have come to sprints so they've work on a project. They help define the shape of the project. Then I can tell you that we had a three-person core team for a very long time and then it was down to a two-person core team. Now, I'm not really sure which one of those is in charge. I don't look at GitHub often enough and a couple of the other computers. There isn't a lot of coaching happening anymore. We should have a wish list but there's nothing so urgent that we stop all other work and go back to making this our primary effort. CHARLES: Of the people on the core team, how many of them are developers? AUDREY: All of us. All three of us were. We come into with different cross skills. I've done a lot of documentation and mentorship. As of the others, I would say we have one person who were in design or one person who was more apps-oriented. We fill those different layers too. CHARLES: Of that group of the core contributors, outside that group of core contributors, you said you accumulate a list of all the people who contributed. What's the breakdown in the roles that those people are playing? AUDREY: You know, it has changed a lot over the course of the project. Early on, we had maybe half of the people were really doing development and the other half were helping. We took a very agile approach like index cards and users story. Maybe half of the people that show up at a given time, we just talk through the feature and do research. We were looking at a lot of integration so what needed to know what would be required to integrate it. We brainstorm a lot of things. We did in-person Code Sprints every two weeks from the year that we started, at late of January to the end of July. We had this whole set of in-person work that really shape in that. Also a lot of people who weren't necessarily contributing code that had disappeared. CHARLES: I see, so people who had a vested interest in a particular set of features could show up and voice that interest and be heard, as opposed to what you're having, it just be limited to the people who are writing the actual code. AUDREY: Yeah and we would ask people to spec it out. Just sit down with somebody and figure out how the feature could work and whether it fit with everything else to what we're doing. I do that research and investigation. Over the years, we've had this come and go in waves. Every so often, we need to go up a Rails version or make certain kinds of major updates so we get people together for that. We had some different pools of Codeschool students that have come in and really been interested in working on this to get a little bit more development experience, get some experience working with other people, have open source some resume to show off. I've been very enthusiastic about giving people that resume credit that if they need an open source of it so that they could say, "I know how to write with other people," then our projects is very happy to help them with that. CHARLES: What is the conference that you run? AUDREY: I am on the committee for Open Source Bridge. It's an annual conference for open source citizens, which is the same people who participate and benefit from open source. CHARLES: Which is pretty much the planet at this point. AUDREY: Yeah. It's funny because, I think it's just so interesting who does or doesn't identify themselves as part of that. Anybody using a computer these days is in some way benefiting from open source and could potentially contribute to it and be part of that. It's not just awareness, there are a lot of actual barriers so that, to everyone having a role in it. But the conference I co-founded it with Selena Deckelmann who's at Mozilla now. We do say over time to ask a lot of questions about how across technologies, open source comes together to build things? How projects work? What kinds of skills are involved? How we become better maintainers by being aware of our users, by communicating better, by being good moderators of online message boards and mailing lists and things like that? We've had a chance to really just look at broad swath of elements that come in. CHARLES: I think that literally every bullet point that you mentioned, I feel is something that we've come across and it has been a challenge for us, in our efforts to maintain our open source projects. Ours are mostly just libraries. There's very little by way of big, big frameworks or big, big applications. We've got it kind of easy, I would say and we still struggle with those things really understanding our users, understanding how your open source project should run and how it even fits into the bigger ecosystem. Is there a guide out there somewhere like how to how to open source? AUDREY: You know, I don't know that I've seen a single guide but there is really a lot of good writing and a lot of good conference talks on this topics. Like you said, it's just this broad set of skills and we focus so much on teaching people how to code and maybe teaching people how to code together, to be good contributors together but if you ever to maintain a project, there's leadership involved. There's communication involved. CHARLES: It seems to me that's the bulk of it, right? AUDREY: Yeah. I don't know, did you get training on that? [Laughter] AUDREY: I just decided to try things. I'm very lucky that I'm mostly made good guesses but there's some really bad ones too where later I look back at it and realized we could have done better. CHARLES: What are some of this mistakes that open source contributors often make, where they could save themselves a lot of trouble? AUDREY: I think a big one is thinking about it only in that technical framework. Even just by tools that we use, we tend to force people into contributing solely through GitHub, which means that you've got to understand somethings about the bug tracker and how tickets go and the workflow around that. CHARLES: Yeah. I've literally looking at a message in our Slack from yesterday where someone on our team who doesn't interact with GitHub said literally, "Someone is going to have to show me how because GitHub is the most confusing thing I have ever logged into." JOE: I thought about that message today too and yeah, I guess I'm wondering how do you attract those more non-technical skill sets to a project? AUDREY: It takes a lot of direct mentoring and coaching. You already has some people that are identifying themselves to you if you're having that conversation. I think I've really benefited from looking at who else is like them, who else do they know that might want to get involved and starting conversations that way. Because the biggest projects that I have worked on are these calendars, it does give us so many users that maybe are interested in having more technical involvement. If I can start looking at who's doing a lot of cleanup on there, who's paying a lot of attention to the content and the structure of the content and structuring information is also a technical skill. But people don't necessarily go from that to thinking, "I can write code," or, "I could submit a ticket and debug that thing and tell you what needs fixing now." But people can get there. We just have to be willing to talk to them about it and willing to look at it from their point of view. CHARLES: One thing that I dig out of there is that if you're running your open source project solely on GitHub, it's not going to be enough. You're going to be constrained in your growth just by the toolset and the implicit exclusivity of that toolset. What are some tools that you can bring in that are going to be more attractive? AUDREY: I think mailing list have turnout to be one of the most open-ended things that we've done. People who want to find out a little bit more, sometimes post there but also just having a good webpage, a good info pages or some sort, having your wiki actually talked about some of the less technical aspects of it. Even explaining what your project is for can be really good. You know, you start to make these assumptions like, "If they're going to go and install it, do they know?" Maybe not. I think just looking at it as a broader set of communications. CHARLES: Right. What seems self-evident to you and maybe someone who shares a lot of context to you is a mystery to someone else. It never hurts to state the obvious. It seems to me you have to be able to use tools that people are familiar with but also part of the leadership is giving people things to do, giving them a way to think about your project or giving them a way to act independently. How do you think about the different roles in an open source project so that you can then elucidate those roles so that someone coming, who is going to look at your website or who's going to be reading your e-mail list is going to be participating in your community in some way and particularly not in a code contribution way, how do you think about the different roles of your open source project so that you can kind of hand that to them? So that they can act independently like, "Here's this thing that you could do. Here's this thing that you could do. Here's this thing that you can do." What is that kind of core set of roles? CHARLES: We could think about it in terms of the actions that we take. If you go back to our lone weekend coder who put something on GitHub, you're already writing the code, making design decisions about the shape of the code, you are writing about it in some way, even if all you do is update the ReadMe to have two lines of something you're writing. You are managing any bug tickets that come in, any future request so you're doing some project management, some kind of general analysis of that. They don't necessarily have to be different roles. People implicitly take on the whole thought of that when they start a project. But they can also be split out. I hate to say like, "Give away your least favorite thing," because people sometimes do that, may dump it out there and it never gets handled well because they don't really understand what they're looking for. But it's okay to say, "I am really great at this one thing and I really struggle with this other thing." I bet there's somebody else who is just way better at organizing the stack communication and they can help me with that. If I can tell them what I need it for, maybe they can help with that. CHARLES: So you have to admit your weaknesses? AUDREY: Yeah. I think a lot of leadership is that kind of self-analysis: really seeing where you are helping the most, where you're strongest, what things absolutely have to be done with you. I don't know. I'd learned you to be really honest about that. Sometimes, the thing you enjoy doing is not the thing that you have to do because nobody else can. But often barred things that are really not fun for me, turned out to be the thing that nobody else can do. I just think that you have to spent some time thinking about that and thinking about what you can teach people too. You already have the knowledge of your project and what you're trying to do so I think what you can teach is what your mission is, what your goals are and maybe they can help you to communicate that too. CHARLES: Yeah, because it seems to me if you actually can very clearly communicate your target, then people can begin to walk towards it independently and that's almost more important than the actual taking the steps. Or the steps needed to be taken but that's something that you can provide. AUDREY: Yeah, you need that kind of definition regardless in order to make your decision and have your work actually function and the less conscious we are about, the more we tend to get a big pile of something and you go, "Now what? What do we do with that?" CHARLES: Right. I think it also flushes out if you have a clear target and you have a clear mission, by externalizing it, it makes you reflect on it more and hardens it, if that makes any sense. You have all these ideas bouncing around in your own head about the things that you might want to do or might like to do but once you actually try to express it to people and say, "You know what? We're going to do this." Then it takes on a reality of its own that is subject to more scrutiny but also subject to the constraints of the real world and that's a good thing. It means that whatever you're going to come up with is going to be more resilient. AUDREY: Yeah. I think we can be scared about putting that out there. They won't see what you see or they won't like it. Those who disagree with your goals there will go, "You really should have been building an eggplant slicer and not a tomato slicer." Yeah, I don't like tomatoes. But for more definition that we put out there, the clearer we are, the more that the people who want to [inaudible] they can find us. That's why it's so important to do it and not to dodge those kinds of questions. CHARLES: Yeah, absolutely. Now, I'm wondering so when is this conference that you're running? Is this the first one or is this the second, the third? AUDREY: Oh, no. We're on our ninth. CHARLES: You are on your ninth? Oh, my goodness. AUDREY: Yeah, it's actually just in a few weeks. It's in June, the week of the 20th, I want to say. Tickets are for sale. If you're in Portland, we had a great volunteer program where you put in eight hours over the course of the entire week. You can split out with everyone and you get a free ticket. CHARLES: Nice. This is the problem with the internet is I'm always finding out things that I wish I'd known 10 years ago. I wish I'd known about this before it actually tried to do any open source. This is the Open Source Bridge so what's a sample of what you guys are going to be talking about? AUDREY: The thing that we've added this year and it's really exciting is the activism track. We're having a lot more people to talk about what they do as code. In this other way, more of public facing way. We have Nicole Sanchez from GitHub. She's going to talk about diversity inclusion and some of the biggest [inaudible] there. We also had Emily Gorcenski doing another keynote and she talks a lot about data and ethics and has a lot of interesting things to say about how we collect and sort and process information and the impacts of that. We have a couple of workshops that are really great. One on technical interviewing and the personal skills that you need. There is a session on keyboard hacking. CHARLES: Keyboard hacking? This is in the activism track? AUDREY: No. This are across all the tracks. CHARLES: How many different tracks are there? AUDREY: There's five. CHARLES: This is a big conference. AUDREY: Yeah. It is such a great community for me to be a part of. Like I said, the different kinds of projects that people come from and bring into it and the different skills, we'll have people that are everywhere from kernel hackers to working in devops to people that kind of fit, I think what we think of it are more typical like web developer or mobile developer kind of skill set. People who run their projects, folks from Dreamwidth often come and participate and they have a lot of really great things to share because they have such an inclusive focus on how they do their project. CHARLES: Where was that? AUDREY: Dreamwidth. It's a LiveJournal spinoff. It's online community journaling website. It's in Perl, which is cool. There aren't as many outward facing things, hiring Perl programmer these days, I think. CHARLES: It's still a very active Perl project? AUDREY: Yeah. CHARLES: Wow. I did Perl a long, long time ago. AUDREY: I think it's really useful to remember that programming languages never actually die. There is always code. JOE: There's still plenty of COBOL positions out there. AUDREY: Yeah. Actually my uncle is a COBOL programmer. CHARLES: Yeah, I remember it was only some statistic where it was something like five years ago, Java, Eclipse, COBOL is the most popular programming language. The cycles are much larger than we tend to think. Surfing on the beach as we do, not realizing there's a whole ocean generating those waves. AUDREY: Yeah, I think if you're in a certain kind of technology startup plan, there's always this push to go for the nearest and shiniest on the number of JavaScript frameworks that we've gone through in the last five years. You kind of [inaudible] of all of these things that come before that are still in use. What I really loved about doing devops is that all of this pieces are still in play and there's something to learn from that. If they don't die, you don't get rid of them. You just try to build on them and keep them working usefully. CHARLES: Right. Man, that's exciting, so you have a very, very huge cross-section of the development community. It sounds like participating in here which is a quality in of itself. That must give you a pretty unique perspective being with that level of cross-discipline. Are there any insights that can only be gleaned by being able to perceive it from that high of a level? AUDREY: Well, a big one is that we all struggle with governance. We don't really talk outside of just a couple of forms for events that focus on open source maintainers. We don't talk about the governance of projects, like who was in charge and how decisions are made. But it turns out that that has just an enormous impact on what a project can actually do and how it survives. I think I might not have seen that as clearly without having people from so many different angles participating. CHARLES: I'm just trying to think of keeping it in the area of web frameworks because that's something that I'm familiar with. If we were to compare, say the governance model something like React, which is basically whatever Facebook wants, versus something in the middle like Angular, which is like an explicit governance model but also is heavily influenced by Google, versus something like... I don't know, well something like JavaScript itself, which has an open democratic model but heavily represented by major, major, major companies, versus something like Rust, which is I certainly get the feeling is a very explicit, very democratic model. All of those seem to have achieved a lot of success and this seemed like a very healthy projects but on the one hand of the spectrum like Rust, you have the super-transparent, super-democratic model and then on the React side, you've got this authoritarian model. That's opaque. How do you reconcile that those are both successful? AUDREY: I think a lot of what actually determines this stuff is who pays the developers. In both of those cases, meaning projects that present information and decision making differently but there are corporations that pay those developers and that's where the primary source of that code. Because of that, really who pays the developers determines what gets made, what code gets written. In a way, they're both doing some of the same things. They're just not giving you inside into that decision making, in some cases. CHARLES: The decision making apparatus is there, I guess the thing is this transparency to the user base matter. I would say that the user base of a thing like React dwarfs the actual corpus of decision makers. That doesn't seem to be that that decision making process is opaque. AUDREY: Well, I might be opening too much of a larger conversation by saying this but if you're familiar with the idea of algorithm transparency, decision making is encoded into things like algorithms and when we can't examine them, then we don't know how that decision was made so we don't know what biases are encoded into it. The same thing happens with code in general. You might say, "Let the outcome of this and this working really great," but there are still biases and preferences that are encoded into that that you don't have insight into. If they start to ship the project in a certain way, that include some users and excludes others. Even on just purely technical levels, you don't know what. You don't know how they got to that, you don't know if they're going to keep steering in that direction. If you're one of those people that is starting to be excluded, you don't know what you can do about it. I've seen these kinds of governance discussion even happen within Ruby in Rails. CHARLES: Yeah, it does seem like these political questions come up constantly. I remember an example that leaps to mind is a project that I was involved with was the Jenkins project, which originally was Hudson, which came out of Sun Microsystems. When Oracle bought Sun, they were basically trying to, I want to say there's always three sides to every story but from where I was sitting, they were essentially trying to subvert the project to their own needs and end up being in a fork of the project. Luckily, there was recourse there where because it was open source and because it was mostly maintained by the community and not by the company, they were able to fork it. They changed the name. They changed the logo and that was the end of the story. There was a question of which fork would survive but that was resolved within probably six months. But Jenkins lived and I think it's better off for it but I guess maybe then a question that you can one kind of stress test that you can put like, "Is it okay to put weight on this technology?" What would happen? Would my community be represented and would I be able to fork this, essentially? Maybe in that sense, React would pass that test. In the sense that it would be reasonable to fork it or something like that. I don't know. I'm just thinking of ways to try and validate if something safe to use. AUDREY: I think it's really interesting that you commented on the new change and the logo change because those kinds of trademarks are actually the most readily protected of all of the intellectual property in an open source projects. If things are going to go off and become a community project and it's being released under some open source model, often where the corporate control stays over those assets -- the name, the logo, the graphics -- maybe even some of the work [inaudible]. You have to ask if that code is still useful without that infrastructure that they provided. If you take the whole codebase and you walk off and you don't have the same developers and you don't have the same, even hosting resources or whatever, is that code still useful to you? What if you use a bug tracker? CHARLES: Right, now you own it. What's the cost now of maintaining? And are you going to get a return on that investment? AUDREY: Yeah. There's been some pretty big open source projects that have struggled with that, especially for end user facing software. Those turned out to be easy things for community to pick up. CHARLES: Can you provide any examples? AUDREY: I'm thinking of some of the stuff that happened with Open Office LibreOffice. CHARLES: Yeah, I remember that. AUDREY: There's still two different batches of people working on this and from what I understand, a whole lot of intellectual property complications. CHARLES: Yeah, it's funny how sometimes, it would be interesting to see a case study of all the major forks and the outcomes of what they were. Some I can think of, there was a fork of Ruby gems, for example I think back in 2009 that went off and was mainly, I think was a way of protest. I think some of those concerns were addressed in the main thing so that fork ended up dying, then you got the fork of io.js, which was ended up. There was a fork and then a rejoining with the Node community but I would say it was an effective tool so there was a fork but then it joined. It was a source code fork but it was a political fork. Then you have the Jenkins fork where the fork basically swallowed its ancestor and there's all these fascinating outcomes and then you've got this LibreOffice Open Office where the waters are very murky about what happened with that fork. AUDREY: I heard people say like, "If you don't like this decision, then just go fork the project." CHARLES: Because that's easy. AUDREY: And if one of your major developers does it, then maybe, like you said, they have some leverage and they can make the changes they want to see happen, [inaudible]. But in general, that's a really hard thing to pull off. You've got to be able to take your entire community with you. Part of this is have to be functional and I think people are very rarely actually make that happen. CHARLES: Right. I feel like that's a dishonest thing to say when people are like, "If you want to go fork it," because really forking the code is the easy part. It's forking the community. AUDREY: Well, if you do that, then you've got a lot of conflicts. You've got a lot of people's feelings to address. It's not a very simple thing to recover from. CHARLES: Yeah. Some people do it. We have some good examples of that happening but it doesn't always pan out for the best. How can we make open source more accessible and supportive of contributors? We've mentioned a lot of that stuff in terms of how you can support people who are contributing but there might be more to talk about that. AUDREY: Yeah, we haven't really talked about who gets to participate. We talked about what kinds of things you can do when you see that people are interested but we don't talk about how in order to be a week encoder, you've got to have those weekends free. Certainly, I am right now. CHARLES: Yeah, neither do I. AUDREY: You have to have access to a laptop if you want to go to Code Sprints or [inaudible]. Not everybody has that, even people who are programming or your own computer not owned by your employer. That can be really important. You have to have a knowledge of how open source works. I do see fairly often in conferences that focus on a lot in open source, there will be how to become an open source contributor kind of talk. That kind of cultural knowledge is really important because otherwise, you're going to GitHub and you look at it and you say, "What am I supposed to do here? What am I actually supposed to do with this?" It's just a wall of information. There's something about a project on GitHub that creates these entry points for somebody who doesn't know how open source projects work. CHARLES: Yeah and it's so hard to be able to perceive it from that person's perspective, especially if you're frog-boiled, so to speak in the community. You've been doing this for so long, these things seem self-evident that it takes a computer, it takes the time, it takes knowing where to establish a toehold. These are all non-problems for you but they're insurmountable for someone else. AUDREY: There's one other aspect of this that we haven't really talked about, which is the friendliness to the kinds of contributors that you have, the diversity of the project versus the homogeneity of the contributors, whether or not you have a code of conduct and you know how to do something with it so that people feel safe and welcome in your environment. There's a lot of people that stay away from open source projects because all they've ever seen is harassment and that behavior. You can have a counterexample but if you don't have some mechanism for showing that that won't happen in your projects, then there are folks that are never going to submit about. They're never going to make a commit. They're not going to put anything on the wiki. CHARLES: Why would voluntarily subject myself to, if the only thing on the other end of the phone is pain? AUDREY: There are plenty of people that decided just to opt out because of that. If open source projects want to see more contribution, you have to be very proactive in dealing with that. CHARLES: Yeah, I feel like it almost would be nice to have some sort of training. Even if you have a code of conduct on your open source project, I think as you grow it from something that's maybe just one or two people to where there's a larger community, the first time you have a bad actor who shows up and start slinging turds, it's shocking and you're taken aback. But just as the number of people grow in a community, that is going to happen. It's just an unfortunate fact of human nature so not having to react to it, but be prepared for it, I think is something that's extraordinarily valuable. I don't know if there's a guide for that on GitHub or guide for that on anywhere else but I think it would be very useful skill to have. AUDREY: It's just very funny that you say this because this is actually a training idea. CHARLES: Oh, really? I promise there was no payment under the table to ask that question. AUDREY: Yeah. There was some consulting around this and I started a program with a local non-profit called Safety First PDX and what we do is train user group leaders, conference organizers, open source project maintainers on exactly that: what to do with their code of conduct to enforce it and help people feel welcome in their community. I worked through a really specific examples with people about how you respond, how you have this conversations and what kinds of things you need to do to protect your contributors who are participants and be really firm about what is next in your space. CHARLES: Absolutely a critical skill for any open source project, for any open source community, for any large accumulation of people. AUDREY: And GitHub made it very easy to put a code of conduct on your project now but without these kinds of resources, I think what happens is that people get that first incident and they panic because it is scary to tell somebody that their behavior isn't okay. To tell them that they might have to step away from the project or stop doing that or even leave indefinitely, those are really hard things to get started doing. I really enjoy doing the training and getting to walkthrough that to people. CHARLES: Are you going to be offering that training anytime soon? AUDREY: We just had one here in Portland last week. We're doing it a quarterly thing but I'm also really open to bringing it elsewhere like a place to host and some sponsorship that they can throw at that and people that want to take this. CHARLES: That'll be awesome. Maybe we can have you in Austin. AUDREY: [inaudible]. CHARLES: Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Audrey for coming on the show. AUDREY: Thanks. CHARLES: It was really great to talk to you. It's great to talk about your history in open source and the things that you're doing in the community, especially the insights that you have around running sustainable open source projects. Also, thank you for talking to us about Open Source Bridge which is, I understand coming up right around the corner. If you want you can go to our podcast page and there will be a link to get $50 off if you enter in the discount code 'PODCAST.' That's $50 off of your open source bridge ticket. Be sure to go check it out. That's it for today, from The Frontside. If you're interested in hiring us, we do have availability starting in July so reach out to us. All right, everybody. Take care.
Jae Sabol is a man on a mission involving open source, community based, sustainable building for 'The Highest Good of All'. http://onecommunityglobal.org/ http://homestylegreen.com/listen
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