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As property managers, you know how important communication is. Building solid relationships and creating trust is crucial in the industry, especially when trying to bring on new clients and doors. In this episode of the Property Management Growth Show, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Sam Wakefield from Close it Now to talk about how you can level up your sales game to close more deals at a higher price point. You'll Learn [00:54] Vendor and Property Manager Relationships [09:43] Why You Attract Cheapo Clients [15:33] Building Trust in Sales [21:14] Shifting Perception: It's Not A, It's B [27:43] Learning to Improve Your Sales at DoorGrow Live 2025 Quotables “Truly all that sells is just communication.” “The second you start to develop a trend in your life, look internally because you are attracting exactly who you are.” “If we don't build the right culture, it's on us as a business owner.” “As business owners, we want to not give up big chunks of our life for just money. We want to be able to have something scalable.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] Sam: A lot of times property management companies think all the companies are the same, so they're looking for maybe cheaper, whoever's cheapest, a cheaper price. [00:00:07] Sam: But then what they get is a company that doesn't communicate and doesn't show up when they say they're going to, and it's really the old adage, you get what you pay for.  [00:00:14] Jason: All right. I am trying a new platform today. This is Jason Hull and I am a property management growth expert. If you're not familiar with me, I help grow and scale property management companies and I am really good at that. And so our company's DoorGrow and we are the world leaders of growing and scaling property management businesses. [00:00:35] Jason: I've helped thousands of property managers do that. And today my guest is Sam Wakefield. Hanging out here with Sam. Sam, welcome to the show.  [00:00:44] Sam: Thanks for having me on, man. I'm glad to be here.  [00:00:46] Jason: Hey, good to have you. So, I'm really excited to get into this. We had some really nice dialogue back and forth. You coach. [00:00:54] Jason: Well, I'll let you tell. What group, category of people do you coach and you help with them with sales and closing more deals, so.  [00:01:01] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So we do sales training and basically sales systems, whole operation systems within companies, but mostly sales focused for home services. So everything from HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and then even outside of that. Garage doors, or you name it. If someone improves a home, then we help the communication side of all of those companies.  [00:01:27] Jason: Got it. So in my industry, property management people would call those vendors. That's usually what they call them. They're like, "these are the vendors." And so we thought it was fun. I went on your podcast, we had this really fun dialogue. [00:01:39] Jason: I highly recommend you go check out Sam's episode with Jason Hull and go check that out. We were going back and forth because we had done a survey each to our audiences, like what's frustrating about HVAC companies and what's frustrating about property management companies. Right. And just seeing the disconnect that existed there. [00:01:56] Jason: Which was interesting. So, before we get into this, I want to read a quick message from our sponsor. This episode's sponsored by KRS SmartBooks. Do you have properties manage, and zero time for bookkeeping headaches? KRS SmartBooks is your secret weapon. They specialize in finances for busy property managers like you, with 15 plus years of real estate knowhow and skills in AppFolio, Yardi, and more imagine monthly reports magically appearing, and zero accounting stress. Sound good? Head to krsbooks.com to book your free discovery call, integrity, quality, and a dash of bookkeeping brilliance, that's KRS SmartBooks, and that's K as in Kansas, R as in Rogers, S as in Sam. Sam. All right, so cool. Now let's get into this. [00:02:45] Jason: So we're going to talk about closing deals, but why don't you give us my audience a little bit of background. How did you get into sales and then starting your own company, helping people with sales, and like, how'd you how did Close it Now come to be?  [00:03:00] Sam: Yeah, for sure. Thanks for that question. So, I've spent almost 20 years now in home services. [00:03:05] Sam: Most of my time has been in HVAC. I've done solar. I've done a lot of different trades over the years and, you know, so I launched the Close it Now company in 2019 because I really just recognized a place where there was not a lot of modern training because truly all that sells is just communication. [00:03:26] Sam: You know, it's how do we communicate clearer and in a way where we can educate so somebody can understand, one, what we're talking about, and two, why they should care and how it's going to make a difference in their life. So at the essence of that, so I was looking for some more modern training for my people at my company that I had at the time, and I didn't find anything out there. [00:03:48] Sam: So I just said, well, now we have a space for, you know, I have communication skills. I can train people. So that's when I launched the company in 2019 and so much of my career built up to that point of, and specifically how it affects here and why I'm here today. You know, I've worked with so many property management companies and individuals across 20 years of doing this. Yeah. So I've definitely learned a lot of best practices and a lot of the things not to do, you know? Got it. I all own my mistakes as well as, you know, coming across maybe property managers that I wouldn't work with again. Right. Yeah. So from all of that experience, you know, I started the training company, so I work with those home service companies to communicate better. [00:04:33] Sam: You know, a lot of it is, you know, of course, working directly with homeowners. But also there's a huge portion of all of those companies that, you know, rely on it and need property management companies to, you know, really help them stay in business and in turn they can turn around and, you know, help those property management companies to efficiently take care of properties. [00:04:58] Sam: But there's always seems to be this kind of struggle of, you know, that back and forth. So that's obviously why we're here today is a big part of that. But that's some of my history. I've been doing it 20 years. I started Close it Now six years or in, coming up on... yeah, April this year, next month is six years anniversary. [00:05:16] Sam: Nice. Of the company. And it's been a fun ride and we've definitely helped lots and lots of organizations to you know, to grow in a way.  [00:05:24] Jason: You're helping them close it now. All right. Yeah. Got it. All right. So you're just, you're helping these vendors close more deals, right? [00:05:31] Jason: So, property managers, I think would love to hear. You're on the other side of this relationship between property managers and vendors. What have you seen and what's the general feedback that you're noticing of the property management industry? What's kind of the vendor's perspective? [00:05:46] Jason: Because I know property managers, they get frustrated with vendors, right? They're like, "oh, the vendors like say you need something when you don't and like they don't like, it's difficult to reach them or this or whatever." Right. What are some of the complaints and gripes about property management companies? [00:06:03] Sam: Yeah. Complaints and gripes about property management companies. One of the big ones is, a lot of it is kind of the same thing is lack of communication. Okay. That's always one of the biggest complaints that comes up is, you know, we will get, you know, say someone, a property manager will call in for us to go evaluate a property. [00:06:21] Sam: We'll take an air conditioning issue or something like that, so we'll show up and then we're trying to call ahead. There's no clear information was given on who to call ahead to. Then we show up to the appointment, maybe the tenant's there, maybe not. A lot of times they're not there. [00:06:36] Sam: Okay. Then we can get ahold of the property manager to even get in the place. So now we're like dancing around in the circle of, okay, who do we contact? You get frustrated, move on to the next call, then the property manager calls and "Well, why'd you leave? Somebody was there." [00:06:50] Sam: Well, nobody was there. And so all of this just seems to happen very often. [00:06:55] Sam: Too often. Yeah. So it creates a stereotype. When the stereotype is created, that means of course there's a reason for it. Yeah. And so this is one of the big ones is the lack of communication. And I know that I've heard that the other direction as well. But so that's one of the things I hear the most. [00:07:11] Jason: Yeah. Got it. Yeah, so I'm sure when a vendor finds a property manager that does communicate effectively that there's clarity in that communication happening, and they've got good systems in place. The tenant's there, the tenant understands what's going on. Everybody's informed. Then those can be really great relationships to have. [00:07:34] Sam: Absolutely. Yeah. Those are, you know, the last the last organization I was at, I was with them, I was a sales manager and trainer for six years there. And I went through about 18 different property management companies to find two to three that were worth working with. Wow. And that was, you know, just sadly. We were always open to when a property management company came to us and we're like, "Hey, we, you know, we need you to do some work. We're looking for a new vendor." We're like, "sure. Absolutely. We'll try you out as well as you're trying us out." Right. But sadly, you know, the two or three that we did find great relationships with. They were fantastic relationships because yeah, we, you know, part of my ethics is our team was like, we will show up on time no matter what. [00:08:19] Sam: Right? We always do what we say. We will never, you know, recommend something that's not verifiable from our, you know, from our testing. We're not going to just guess at this because we're not guessing with anybody's, you know? Yeah. Investment. And at the same time when we, you know, say we're going to do the work, we do the work, and we show up to do the work, we say we're going to. [00:08:43] Sam: So that was my ethics statement I always led with. And then basically I would ask the property management company, can I expect the same thing from you guys? Right? And sure enough, the second that we met in the middle and said, yes, this is how we want to do business, those relationships were always the very best ones because sure, were we a few more dollars than the other contractor down the street? Sure. Yes. But we showed up when we said we were going to and we did the right work right the first time. And so, right. That's a big part of that disconnect, I think, is it seems like so many you know, a lot of times property management companies think all the companies are the same, so they're looking for maybe cheaper, whoever's cheapest, a cheaper price. [00:09:22] Sam: But then what they get is a company that doesn't communicate and doesn't show up when they say they're going to, and. It's really the old adage, you get what you pay for.  [00:09:30] Jason: You know, property managers have the same sort of problem is that a lot of people that are looking for a property manager are just looking for the cheapest price. [00:09:38] Jason: And they hate that. They're like, "we're not all the same." Right. So I, yeah, I think it's really important. I think this is dictated by the morals, the ethics, and the values of the business owner. It's always a top down thing. And so if the business owner is a cheapo, they attract cheapo clients and they deal with vendors through this cheapo lens, and this is where there's going to be a lot of mess and a lot of communication issues, and a lot of times the business owner, and this goes for any business and any industry, has a blind spot to the fact that they're cheap. But they're, you know, you're a cheapo if you're the person that's always looking for the stupid coupon code every time you buy everything online, you're always like hunting for that like. I don't have time to do that. [00:10:21] Jason: Like that's a massive waste of my time to go find, save 10% on some stupid a hundred dollars thing online, right? Right. Like, Ooh, I'm searching around. Right. Oh, I saved $10 even though I could have made a hundred thousand dollars. Like if I just like built something awesome, right? So I think there's a mindset issue is that these property managers or vendor business owners are not valuing their time enough. [00:10:45] Jason: If you value your time, you value other people's time. You then show up on time. You then like try to make sure, like your schedule is tight, you want to make sure your schedule is full. Like you, because you value your time and you feel that it's important. And if you really value your time enough as a person, you get things like assistance. [00:11:03] Jason: You get team members, like you get support because your time is so valuable that you want to go buy other people's time because it's less valuable than your time. Right, and this is how we scale our businesses over time is we are buying other people's time that are like they're willing to trade and give up their life chunks of their life for money. [00:11:24] Jason: And as business owners, we want to not give up big chunks of our life for just money. We want to be able to have something scalable. And so I think there's a mindset thing that we have to not be cheap. We have to operate with integrity, and then our team members need to have these values instilled in them, and if we don't build the right culture, it's on us as a business owner. [00:11:45] Jason: And if we don't build the right culture, we then don't have longevity in our business. We don't get return business, we don't get return clients. We don't get to have that really good vendor to continue to work with. We don't get to have that property owner continue to want to work with us, right? [00:12:00] Jason: Because we have showcased that we are not on top of things, or that we don't have the right values or that we don't have healthy mindset. And so I feel like. At the foundation of everything. It always comes back to mindset. A lot of times  [00:12:13] Sam: I a hundred percent agree with that. It, you know, it's funny that you're kind of started this conversation going down this path. [00:12:19] Sam: This is something that's been a very basically a soapbox for me, a big hot button. Yeah. You know, when I'm coaching... [00:12:26] Sam: jump on that soapbox, Sam. Let's go.  [00:12:27] Sam: Yeah. When I'm coaching and training people lately, especially at this last week especially... yeah. You know, I'm training people with sales and that type of focus, and they, of course, people always come to me, "Hey, how do I overcome these sales objections?" [00:12:43] Sam: You know, somebody says, "I want to get three bids, or somebody says, your price is too high, I want to shop around, or I need to think about it." Yeah. And instead of just going straight to, "well, here's the word track and how to handle these objections." Yeah. We always start with: anytime that you find a trend in your life, [00:13:00] Sam: so if you're getting the same consistent objection, say somebody's getting every single time they get to the end of their appointment and the homeowner or whoever they're talking to says, "I want to think about it." It's like the second you start to develop a trend in your life, look internally because you are attracting exactly who you are. [00:13:17] Sam: I would be willing to bet that person does the same thing when they shop. So then no wonder you're getting every single one of your clients is telling you, "I want to think about it." Or if when you shop, do you ask for say, "oh, I've got to get some three bids on this thing. I got to look around." Yeah. Well, no wonder the people you're selling to always have to get three bids because we attract who we are. Yeah. And it starts right here in the mind. And it's incredible how that works.  [00:13:43] Jason: Yeah. because if we're anxious, if we have that energetic sort of anxiety of that, like things are, it's expensive, and we go into that trying to sell it to somebody. Then they can feel that and we present it differently. And so we're like, "here's the price." And like, yeah, and it's worth it. And they can just, there's so many little subtle clues they pick up on that, Hey, this seems a little high. And because sometimes like if you're presenting to somebody and they're not what I call a cheapo, there's three types of buyers, cheapos, normals, and premiums I call them. [00:14:16] Jason: And normals are like, you typically like 60%. They're like the majority, 61%. The smallest group are usually the premium buyers, supposedly. But the idea is this: if you're a premium buyer and I present a price and I'm not even going to like flinch telling you about it, I'm like, "yeah, we've got this and this is what it costs and this," and they're going to go, "oh, this person feels really confident." [00:14:36] Jason: And it's just energetically how we present it. There's no like, "Hey, I'm trying to prep you for this price, you know, reveal because it's going to hurt a little bit." Right. Or if they just have the confidence and they know they're expensive, they might even just say, "Hey, we're one of the most expensive, but we're also one of the best. Let me tell you about your options." Right? So maybe they start with a pre-frame like that, but either way, they have this confidence that they know they have value and that it's worth it, and then they present it like that, then people would go, oh, okay, but if you have that anxiety deep down related to price and you know, you're this person if you're always looking for the coupon code or the discount code or you're trying to find the cheapest way to do something, then you've got a bit of that going on. [00:15:21] Jason: Because that's your identity. And so I've noticed this. Like in order to get people to be better salespeople, I can't just give them tactics. I have to give them identity. And so, and this is why my greatest sales hack, I call the Golden Bridge Formula. It's like it's the most authentic way to sell, which is your personal why connected to the business why connected to the prospect's why. Because we always trust motives. And the default assumption in sales, if I don't know your motive and you're trying to sell to me, is you want my money. [00:15:54] Sam: Right.  [00:15:54] Jason: And if I think that's your only motive is you want my money and you're willing to do whatever it takes to get that, then you're probably maybe even willing to be unethical in order to get that might be the assumption. [00:16:05] Jason: Right? So that's kind of the default assumption in sales. And so to correct that, if I tell somebody, "Hey. I'm Jason Hull. My personal why is to inspire others to love true principles. And so what that means is I love sharing what works and learning what works and teaching to others. I would do that for free, for fun, and so I created DoorGrow and our why at DoorGrow is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. [00:16:27] Jason: And so if our whole belief system is around helping people transform their businesses. So that allows me to basically feed my addiction to learning, coaches, masterminds, books, whatever, and turn around and be able to share what's working with others. And that's just fun for me. So I have a business that basically fulfills my lifestyle and allows me to have fun and do what I want to do. [00:16:51] Jason: And you, Mr. Property management, business owner, who I'm maybe selling to, want to grow your business. And so our interests are in alignment. My business is the bridge that connects your why to my why. We both get what we want. It's the ultimate win-win, right? Everybody wins. And so I've been able to take really terrible salespeople that are really bad at selling, and I just get them clear on their own identity. [00:17:14] Jason: Mm-hmm. Who they are, why they do what they do, and have them relate that to people and then people trust them. And sales and deals happened at the speed of trust.  [00:17:22] Sam: Oh my gosh, I love this so much. It's insanely powerful too when I'm teaching people how to do just introductions, you know? A super quick formula too for the property managers out there that are listening to that, even if you're property manager, you have to get good at sales. [00:17:38] Sam: Yeah, you have to be good at communication to be able to bring more doors into your portfolio. And so the way you know, a really easy formula for those homeowners when you're having that conversation, first of all, they've got to know who they're talking to. Yeah. You know, this belief, identity, you know, matrix that I actually I love to call, I just did a keynote. [00:17:59] Sam: It's funny for everybody listening. It's almost like Jason and I have read each other's notes, but we haven't. Just did a keynote, well that's maybe a month ago in Minnesota, that the entire talk was your thoughts, create your belief about yourself, your totally belief about yourself creates your identity, and then your identity creates your outcomes. [00:18:16] Sam: Yeah. And, but we have to go back and start with those thoughts. And so, but a simple, easy formula for property managers out there having this conversation is first of all, start asking permission for things. Yes. We can't just tell, right? If we can ask it as a question, ask it as a question. [00:18:36] Sam: So ask permission, like, "Hey, before we get started, do you mind if I take a quick minute and just introduce you to our company and myself."  [00:18:44] Sam: yeah.  [00:18:45] Sam: And so first of all, anytime a conversation starts, there's always this period of icebreaking, right? Yeah. Anytime anything new is introduced in anyone's environment, there's always stiffness until that moment of rapport happens and we relax a little bit. [00:19:00] Sam: Yeah. So taking a couple of minutes to just. "Hey, before we get started, do you mind if I introduce the company and a little bit about myself? Would that be all right?" Yes. So permission to it and then just take a few minutes because I mean, so many times we'll go through this crazy presentation and then we're asking somebody to buy from us and they don't even know who we are. [00:19:21] Sam: We never took the time to even introduce ourselves. Right.  [00:19:24] Jason: Yeah.  [00:19:24] Sam: Or they don't know thing about the company.  [00:19:25] Jason: Trying to immediately shove the product or service down their throat.  [00:19:28] Sam: Yeah. No wonder they need to think about it. They don't even know who you are. And so we introduce that first. [00:19:34] Sam: It's huge. And to just getting into the things. So that's the flow. It's like, okay, now that you know a little bit about us, tell us a little bit about you. What are you looking for? Right. So then you start that discovery process, and I'm sure you trained this but the discovery process is everything. [00:19:51] Sam: We have to understand the motive behind why they want to do things. Somebody just says, "Hey, I'm looking for a property manager." Okay, great. That's one thing. "Why do you would need a property manager? What are you trying to solve? What do we want to accomplish by having a property manager for your property?" [00:20:09] Sam: So we find out, what are the pain points? What are the issues that they're wanting to overcome? And then from there, we can create a, you know, craft a conversation around it. But until we know that, we're just stabbing in the dark and just guessing it. Yeah. Well, hopefully this will work.  [00:20:23] Jason: Right. Yeah. If we just jump right to offering solutions when we don't even ask what they need it's not very effective. [00:20:30] Jason: And then they're going to have a ton of objections.  [00:20:32] Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But yeah, that's the some of the complaints we have are the communication and the other one is just not responding once we find solutions, then give them to the property manager. [00:20:45] Sam: And then it's like ghosting for who knows how long until finally somebody gets back. And so that's the other side of the communication is not getting resolution once we actually, you know, we can do this work, but we're not going to sit around here all day to wait to get it approved. We have other appointments. [00:21:02] Sam: So do we want to reschedule?  [00:21:03] Jason: It's treating the vendor like they're high value, they're going to treat you like you're high value and they're going to prioritize you. And so it really is a mutual respect relationship that needs to be built. So, Sam, I also want to bring up to our audience, you are going to be coming [00:21:19] Jason: to speak at DoorGrow Live. Yeah. And you're going to be teaching some really cool stuff. Could you just touch on real quick what you're going to be sharing at this because I wanted to come bring you to expose my clients and my audience to what you're going to be sharing and maybe you can get some people pumped up for DoorGrow Live, so. [00:21:38] Sam: Absolutely. Yeah. So thank you for the invite as well. I'm super excited to be speaking for DoorGorw Live. It's my passion, in fact to be able to help people in their daily lives, especially in conversations like this, to make it easy. I am such a firm believer that sales should be easy. If it's not easy, we're overcomplicating it. And so what we're going to be talking about at the event is I'm going to give some really simple keys to better communication so people actually not only listen, but they understand what you're saying and, more importantly, why should they care? [00:22:18] Sam: So we're going to talk about something called, the benefit lens. We're going to talk about some easy word substitutions. We're not going to be learning scripts or anything. We're going to be, we're going to show any really easy ways to get immediate buy-in to what our conversation is. Nice. And how to recruit people to be raving fans and be on board. [00:22:38] Sam: And how to ask and get referrals because that's huge in...  [00:22:44] Sam: absolutely.  [00:22:44] Sam: ...something like a property management. If every third door you added also added another one from a referral, what would that do to your business? Yeah, absolutely. So not just asking for referrals, but actually asking in a way where actually get them. [00:22:57] Jason: Right. Yeah. If you're getting enough referrals, one, because you have a good reputation, you're doing a good job, but also because you have an intention and you're asking appropriately, you create this kind of virus of growth in your business where it's multiplying. [00:23:13] Jason: Every client becomes more clients.  [00:23:16] Sam: Yep. Absolutely. In fact, we can do a quick little as an example of some of the things we're going to cover. Are you open to doing a quick little role play with me on...  [00:23:24] Sam: all right. Let's do it.  [00:23:25] Sam: Some of the conversation here. Yeah. I love role play.  [00:23:28] Sam: Let's have fun.  [00:23:29] Sam: Yeah, for sure. [00:23:30] Sam: So I'm property manager. So before we do, give me a quick little context of what is a premium price property manager and what is like a middle range property manager. And so I'll know what I'm working with here. [00:23:44] Jason: Oh yeah. Usually our clients have three different price points for that reason. So, perfect. But let's say like, real typical in the marketplace is 10% is pretty normal. Okay? And this is not what we recommend. because our clients close more deals more easily at a higher price point. [00:23:59] Jason: So we have some special pricing models, but let's say 10%. Premium, maybe 12%, and the lower would maybe be like 8%.  [00:24:08] Sam: Got it. Got it. Perfect. Alright, so I'm the project manager. So I'm going to be a premium 12%. Yeah. So what we're going to do in this conversation, I'm going to ask for the business and you're going to give me a little bit of a price flinch with, "well, the other guy was only 10%." [00:24:23] Sam: Okay. And so we'll show a quick, easy way to handle that. All right. In a way that will make sense for everybody. So, alright, Jason, so, sounds like everything that you've talked about, can you see how all the things we do will take care of the concerns that you have? [00:24:38] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Sounds great.  [00:24:40] Sam: Awesome. Perfect. So the next steps to get moving is you know, so we're just 12% of the monthly as for us to be able to take care of all of that. And this will just need a quick authorization on this form here and we can get started right away.  [00:24:55] Jason: Ooh, okay. Well, I was expecting, you know, I talked to a company down the street, they were like 10%, which seems to be a bit more normal. [00:25:04] Jason: I don't know.  [00:25:04] Sam: More normal?  [00:25:07] Jason: I've talked to a couple companies and a lot of them all do it at 10%. Could, like, is it possible you could do it at 10%?  [00:25:13] Sam: Oh, gotcha. So listen, I mean, so we were just 12%, but listen, we're not 2% higher or 2% more expensive. We're 2% better. Can I explain to you why that is? [00:25:25] Jason: Sure.  [00:25:26] Sam: Absolutely.  [00:25:27] Sam: So at that point, as a great company, you're going to have a hit list of all of the reasons why you're better than everybody else, and what makes you that premium company. I like it. So the minute we get that permission question in of, "Hey, we're not 2% more expensive, we're 2% higher, we're 2% better." [00:25:43] Sam: Then the permission question is, "can I show you why, or can I show you how?" And they say "Yes." Then we're going to, "okay, so what we do, it's..." never talk bad about the competition. Sure. But it's always with that perspective. "So what we do is this, and what we do is this, and what we do is this. We're always going to have the availability to be in contact, you know, 24/7 or you know, whatever all of the benefits is. [00:26:10] Sam: We're going through this huge benefit list. Yeah. And then when, once we, and it works like magic, once you get to about 10 or 12 things, especially when you know, those first 10 or 12 things are things the other companies don't do. Yeah. So many times that person will go, "you know what? You're right. You know what? You're right. Let's just go ahead and do it." Yeah.  [00:26:31] Jason: I mean, you go through those things you say, "so does that make sense why maybe we're 2% better?" And they're going to be like, "yeah."  [00:26:38] Jason: You've got agreement.  [00:26:39] Sam: Cool. Absolutely. And the other thing to do in this conversation, and this is really powerful too, so, you know, we'll take you know, what's a, what's the average rent that we'd be taking that percentage off of? [00:26:50] Jason: Let's say 2000 bucks.  [00:26:51] Sam: So 2000 bucks. That's what I was going to use. "So we're talking about 2% difference. So we're looking at $40 a month or $10 a week. Is it worth it to you for $10 a week to potentially fight the headache of, you know, your property management company not responding when you need them to respond, your tenants being really unhappy, the tenants turning over and over, for, I mean, $10 a week. Is it worth it to you for that?"  [00:27:22] Jason: Yeah.  [00:27:23] Sam: So if, I mean, if you're willing to roll the dice and take that chance, then of course you could do what you want. But if you want it done right and done once, so you're headache free and you're not going to have to, because the reason you hire a property manager is to be hands off. [00:27:35] Sam: Right? Yeah. Perfect. That's why what, that's what sets us apart. Next to any of the other companies around.  [00:27:43] Jason: Got it. So hypothetical property manager, Sam here, like believes. You can tell by listening to him, he believes in what he is selling. He believes he's worth that 12%. He believes he's worth that value, and I love that reframe. [00:27:58] Jason: One of the NLP hacks I teach clients is, it's not a, it's b, and he's like, "it's not that we're expensive or higher price, it's that we're 2% better." And so you're saying this is how you are looking at it. Here's how I want you to look at it. And that's a really cool correction. I love that right there. [00:28:16] Jason: Very powerful.  [00:28:17] Sam: The other part of that too is when you take, we're not talking about the total monthly, you know, we're talking about what's 12% or 10%? We're talking about 2% difference. Yeah. Is it worth it to you for a 2% difference to take the chance on having to deal with this, having to manage your own projects, having the headache, having the you know, the angry tenants or we don't have that problem. [00:28:42] Sam: And here's proof: review, testimony. Other people in the area, for people that use us just like you guys.  [00:28:49] Jason: Yeah. Awesome. Perfect. And you're going to share some really cool stuff I know at DoorGrow Live. I'm excited, man. Me too.  [00:28:56] Sam: Let's just tip of the iceberg. [00:28:57] Jason: For a salesman to be able to like build a coaching business, teaching sales like these are the best in the world at sales, and so I'm really excited to have you come. I've sold millions and millions of dollars of stuff. I love, I'm always learning more about sales, like this is something you can always continually learn more, so I love that little reframe. [00:29:17] Jason: That's a good one. I'm excited to hear what else you have to share. This is going to be really awesome. And if you're interested, go to doorgrowlive.com and get your tickets. Get your tickets. Our theme this year is innovating the future of property management, and we are bringing future ideas. [00:29:32] Jason: I'm going to be going over hybrid pricing, a new pricing model for property managers. This is the future. We're going to be sharing our DoorGrow hiring system. This is the future of how you're going to need to do hiring, so you're not making mistakes with hires, we're helping a lot of people replace their entire team. [00:29:48] Jason: So anyway, DoorGrow Live is going to be really freaking cool. So, yeah, and it's a holistic conference as well. We're bringing people from outside the industry, people that are related to different things. I've got a biohacking expert. We've got different things just to optimize your life as an entrepreneur and to make you better at what you do. [00:30:05] Jason: So this is going to be really cool. So, well, Sam anything else we should touch on?  [00:30:10] Sam: You know, there's so much we could cover.  [00:30:12] Jason: There's a lot. We'll save it for DoorGrow Live. How can people that, if they're listening, they're like, I'm a vendor, or I've got this, or I could really use Sam's help. [00:30:21] Jason: How can they get ahold of you?  [00:30:23] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. They can go to, of course the website is closeitnow.net. That's NET so closeitnow.net. They can email me directly, sam@closeitnow.net. On an Instagram at @therealcloseitnow. Okay. Or basically search Close it Now anywhere and I pop up all over the place. [00:30:44] Sam: All right. I'm kind of everywhere on social media and on the Googles at this point. All right.  [00:30:50] Jason: All right, well we're going to close this show now, so appreciate you coming on, Sam. It's been great having you. And for those that are watching, listening, if you could use some help from DoorGrow reach out to us. [00:31:00] Jason: You can check us out at doorgrow.com. We are the world leaders at coaching and scaling property management companies. And so if you are dealing with operational challenges, team challenges, hiring challenges, or you just don't know the right strategies for adding doors or business development, we can help you with all of that. [00:31:18] Jason: So reach out to us, check us out at doorgrow.com and until next time, to our mutual growth. Bye everyone. 

Sam is back for BSE!  Mo and girls jump on this quick weekend episode to talk about the dating life. Caller #1 is K who is 34yrs old from Manila.  K wants the group to help her decipher the "moves" of a fuccboi who is in fuccboi rehab. Caller #2 is Reese who sis 41yrs old from QC.  Reese is married and about to file for annulment.  Is it considered cheating if both her bf and her are married, even if they are separated?We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify!

Let's kick off the weekend with a bunch of GTWM episodes starting off with an interesting BSE as Mo, Sam, and Mara swing at each other with their differences of opinions to our callers problems.  It's a fun show!  Let's do this!Caller #1 is Kat who is 37yrs old from Laguna.  Kat's husband turns into the Hulk when he gets mad at her and the kids.  It's disturbing but enough to break up the family?Caller #2 is Olivia who is 46yrs old from Manila.  Olivia is a self-admitted Type A personality.  But was it her Alpha tendencies that got her husband to cheat on her and leave her for another woman?We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify!

After working with property management business owners for over a decade, I've realized that the problems they are experiencing tend to be deeper than issues in the business… In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Sam Womack to discuss entrepreneurship, health, and how the two intertwine. You'll Learn [01:57] How stress affects your health [13:48] The impact of oxygen and proper relaxation [17:40] The importance of being able to calm your nervous system [26:10] More health expert insights   Tweetables “Everybody's doing the best they can with their current limited access to knowledge and resources.” “Don't beat yourself up for when you feel stressed out. Just make sure that before you continue that stress rollercoaster, like find some space to find some peace.” “You don't have to like beat all your competitors in a lot of instances, you just need to outlive them. You just need to outlast them.” “High performance isn't just how hard you push. It's about how well you recover and regulate.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Sam: If you don't find time to balance your nervous system or don't work on implementing tools to balance your nervous system, then you are limiting yourself to lower performance in the short term and decreasing performance in the long term.  [00:00:15] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the Property Management Growth Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you're interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. [00:00:37] Jason: So DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. [00:01:21] Jason: Now let's get into the show. Cool.  [00:01:24] Jason: And I'm hanging out here with sam Womack. Sam, welcome to the show.  [00:01:29] Sam: Thanks for having me on. I'm excited to be here.  [00:01:31] Jason: Cool. So Sam we met at a local mastermind here in the Austin area, which is really cool. And for those that know that I run a mastermind for property managers, I also eat my own dog food and believe in getting coaching and learning and growth and everything else. [00:01:52] Jason: And wanted to connect with some people locally and make some friends as well. So, Sam's one of those friends. So, Sam, welcome to the show. And why don't you give people a little bit of background on yourself and what you do and how you kind of. Got into running businesses and doing cool stuff. [00:02:10] Sam: Yeah, no, thank you. First off, I don't do anything near as difficult as you guys. Managing property and tenants, I think is a feat to be held. And so props to all you guys out there crushing it in real estate. I cut my teeth in entrepreneurship starting at a young age. I was charging like 30 bucks an hour to teach old people how to use their computers, you know, tell their life story. [00:02:29] Sam: They'd pay me 30 bucks an hour while they sat there and henpecked. It was pretty ingenious. Fast forward into later on in life when the pandemic hit the business that I was launching just disappeared overnight. The retail died, everything that I've been working on, all the investors pulled out. [00:02:44] Sam: I was left with a few grand in my name and a baby on the way, living in a studio apartment with my wife. Had to figure something out, went into supply distribution, and a couple years later, fast forward, I did about 20 million in revenue as a solopreneur distributing gloves, masks, COVID test kits, etc. [00:03:01] Sam: But throughout that time, I dealt with like a really serious health issue. Stress had kind of overwhelmed me and I ended up with an autoimmune condition in my brain and through the journey of healing that autoimmune condition that was presenting as like early onset Alzheimer's, it was kind of a mystery. [00:03:16] Sam: They didn't know what was happening. I developed a deep passion for finding the root of health and the root of optimization and root of performance. A lot of that came through working with my mom, who's a preeminent physician focusing on anti aging and regenerative science here in Austin. [00:03:31] Sam: And so I typed her handwritten notes for a couple years and followed the patient journeys of the elite because she has a concierge practice for the elite here in Austin. And as I saw what drove change in their lives, I learned a lot about the human psyche and I learned a lot about how each of our individual unique biologies are very different when it comes to what we choose to do to find optimization or find optimal health. And so now I have a passion for bringing that to the masses. And as the pandemic waned, and as I healed, I became passionate about different physics based modalities and the different systems in the body and how to reach optimal performance. [00:04:07] Sam: And now I have a wellness center here in Austin that focuses on performance optimization, as well as maximizing human potential and transitioning the human experience as well as a research Institute called Human Beaming Research Institute, where we present the stories of the truth about health and where we help bring true health science to light so that people understand what's actually true, not truth that's manufactured by special interests, but truth that's founded in science. [00:04:36] Jason: Got it. Yeah. I mean, there's kind of a battle right now, right? We're like seeing it all play out live real time. Oh yeah. Got this whole make America healthy movement. We've got RFK, Bobby like and it seems like there's some major disruptions that are kind of happening right now and there's a battle and we're waking up. [00:04:58] Jason: A lot of people are waking up that hey, you know, big food, big pharma, you know, big government are not in favor of us being healthy for some reason, which is kind of scary. So yes, yeah kind of waking up to this and I don't know, maybe we're all biohackers now. I don't know.  [00:05:17] Sam: Yeah. No, I you're absolutely right I think that humanity as a whole is kind of done drinking the Kool Aid when it comes to what we've been told is the truth. [00:05:27] Sam: And, you know — [00:05:29] Jason: Yeah. Cause the Kool Aid has like glyphosate in it and like, also like molds and mycotoxins, like it's got bad stuff all over it. And I'm not saying actual Kool Aid. This is metaphorical people. Metaphorically.  [00:05:42] Sam: Yes. And when you look at like where, you know, just briefly to when you follow the money and you see that, like, from a business standpoint, one of the largest mergers and acquisitions in history, if you bring it to current dollar value was when big tobacco bought the food industry and you look at when that transition happened and you see what happened to our food supply and you know, we're fish in a barrel that they're just taking their pick of right now when it comes to what we have that's societally acceptable to put in our bodies and societally acceptable to engage in, in terms of social interaction, et cetera. [00:06:15] Sam: And it, yeah. Kind of funnels us down this path of high stress, which kind of takes us to today's topic with the nervous system. But yeah, I don't don't know if you have anything else you want to discuss before we dive in.  [00:06:25] Jason: Well, I want to point out. So Sam really sharp guy, as you can tell already, Sam's going to be a speaker at our DoorGrow Live conference. [00:06:35] Jason: And he's going to talk about some really cool stuff that we're very holistic at DoorGrow. And so I know that in coaching entrepreneurs and having talked to thousands of property management business owners and coaching hundreds of clients that it's never really the business or that they're spending too little time in their business that's keeping them from succeeding in business. It's everything else, especially health, especially their relationships, especially their marriage. Like these things create a lot of friction for entrepreneurs And they've got a lot going on. You're not really talking about property management when you come to DoorGrow Live, but I do believe it will be a game changer for them to be able to perform more, be able to get more out of their business, be able to get more out of life, which is the goal of having a business, right? [00:07:20] Jason: That's more freedom and more fulfillment. So, yeah. So if you have not yet gone to doorgrowlive.Com and gotten your tickets. Go do that right now. Go get your tickets and make sure you're at that event. Come hang out with us in North Austin at round rock at the Kalahari resort. It's going to be awesome. [00:07:36] Jason: All right. Shameless plug completed. Now, Sam, let's get into talking about the topic at hand.  [00:07:43] Sam: Yeah, I know. And thank you. And I'm really excited to get on stage and speak and I'm going to save some nuggets for the stage. Won't give it all the way here. So I'm really excited about that and helping you guys understand what the true root of your full potential actually is and not from some woo woo space, but actually understanding like the fundamental simple science beneath high performance and beneath fulfillment in life because it really does break down to a very simple equation. One of the key factors is a molecule, and that molecule is actually oxygen. [00:08:13] Sam: And when your brain is in a high stress state you would think that your body would give it more oxygen under high stress, right? But under high stress, you actually have vasoconstriction. Your blood pressure rises, blood gets pumped to your extremities, you got to get away from that proverbial bear, right? [00:08:29] Sam: But for y'all, that bear is the constant wave of tenant complaints, the constant wave of, you know, economic factors interest rate shifting stuff like that And so you have this like constant bear chasing you and if you're always in that state of fight or flight your brain is patterned to operate on survival mechanisms and a lower amount of oxygen and so And then we get this like male, sometimes male and female, but we get this, like this almost masculine energy of like, let's go conquer and do this high stress, high action push, push, push coffee, stimulant. [00:09:03] Sam: And we're really performing with our hands tied behind our back at that point, because our brain has less oxygen in it. And when you look at the other side of the nervous system, which is our parasympathetic nervous system you have this increase of oxygen in the brain. which actually raises serotonin instead of relying on that dopamine cortisol roller coaster, right? [00:09:24] Sam: And so, at the base of this is oxygen, which is bringing us life, which is creating ATP, cellular energy. And, to put it simply, If you don't find time to balance your nervous system or don't work on implementing tools to balance your nervous system, then you are limiting yourself to lower performance in the short term and decreasing performance in the long term. [00:09:48] Sam: Higher relying on stimulants, higher amounts of of just stress and cortisol and dopamine reliance in the long term, which takes away from your ability to connect with others, to find community, to find that real fulfillment that comes in life.  [00:10:02] Jason: And so what you're saying is we shouldn't just overdose on coffee that here in the U. S. probably has mold in it and makes you not feel good and have to pee way too much. And then not, you know, take care of ourselves in breathing effectively and getting too little sleep, too much hustle, too much stress.  [00:10:23] Sam: Yeah.  [00:10:24] Jason: Okay.  [00:10:24] Sam: Yeah, we can get addicted to that pattern because stress actually can feel really good. [00:10:30] Sam: When you have dopamine augmenting that cortisol, right? Without dopamine, cortisol feels really crappy. You know, you look at high anxiety. You look at that restlessness feeling where you don't feel good. You're on edge. That's when your cortisol's high and your dopamine is kind of low because you've been exhausting the dopamine stores by just pushing it. [00:10:50] Sam: Dopamine is supposed to be a short term reward to get us out of the stress back into a parasympathetic state. Dopamine was never meant to be the consistent ongoing reward. Because, like, think about it for survival, right? If you're, you know, trying to get away from the bear, and you're running, that needs to somewhat feel good, in order to get you through that stress. [00:11:11] Sam: So dopamine kicks in when oxygen lowers in the brain. And then, when you get out of the stress, you find that parasympathetic state again, you calm down, oxygen rises in the brain, serotonin rises, which is that more deeper, long term fulfilling chemical, that actually leads to creativity as well. But our society tells us that love is dopamine. It tells us that success is dopamine. It tells us achievement is dopamine. It gives us these dopamine triggers for all of the cultural hierarchy and the cultural validation, that external validation when you do something to succeed and you show it off, that's a dopamine trigger. Social media is a trigger. So all of these things, society is structured in a way that says, "dopamine's the reward. Now go buy shit, right?" Like almost all the financial economy is driven surrounding dopamine, which is a ultimate losing game because you guys all know that it doesn't really provide that end fulfillment, but since it feels good, we're kind of stuck in that loop. And so. What I want to help illuminate is where true fulfillment can be found and help with some kind of practical tools and a practical understanding of this foundational science so that when you're looking to perform at your best, you can give yourself a break and allow yourself to relax. [00:12:22] Sam: You know, before you have that next cup of coffee to keep yourself going, take some deep breaths, find some space to relax. Don't worry that your brain doesn't feel a hundred percent on. And give yourself some space to allow that peace in knowing that you're raising oxygen in the brain. You're opening oxygenation to areas that are going to drive creativity, that are going to allow for connection, that are going to allow for more presence in your body. [00:12:44] Sam: You'll be a different person in the home. You'll be a different person towards yourself. And so these are critical components of understanding the power of the nervous system when it relates to performance. Because high performance isn't just how hard you push. It's about how well you recover and regulate, and it's about how you create that balance that pushes for longevity and pushes for long term endurance and strength. [00:13:09] Sam: Because if you want to succeed and grow your business 5x, 10x, 100x, you need endurance. Sympathetic, nervous system tone, high stress does not create endurance. It's short term bursts, you crash out or you keep hitting the stimulants. And it keeps you in this narrow window of potential. You find that parasympathetic, you find that relaxation, you get creativity going in your brain, you get higher oxygenation in your brain, you're shifting gene expression towards longevity. [00:13:33] Sam: So it's a pretty powerful tool. And most people think, "oh, I don't want to meditate, you know, or I don't want to relax", or they don't feel safe when they're calm. And it's something to just work on shifting your perspective on because there's true power in that state of peace.  [00:13:48] Jason: A while back, I read this book. [00:13:50] Jason: I don't know if you heard of this. It's called the Oxygen Advantage. It's by a guy named Patrick Mckeown and it's got a forward by Dr. Joseph Mercola, but it's interesting because basically the book is about how he trains athletes to breathe through their nose while working out instead of their mouth, which like exercises the lungs and increases lung capacity. [00:14:15] Jason: But if they're, if we're constantly operating with our mouth open and working with our mouth open, we actually decrease our lung capacity. And so, athletes are just burning out really quickly and they don't have the ability or the capacity to, you know, absorb as much oxygen. So like working out those muscles, like breathing through your nose, you know, is something that talks about, but that's interesting that when we're not calm, we're not getting enough oxygen that we're not recovering, we're not regulating our stress, our body probably starts to eat itself a little bit and, you know, and then we get addicted to dopamine and you know, in business, most businesses fail and really you don't have to like beat all your competitors in a lot of instances, you just need to outlive them. You just need to outlast them. And that, that endurance aspect. And so I think, you know, I think we're going to go through some financial turmoil in the marketplace. Things are probably going to get worse before it gets better as we're cleaning up all this mess financially that is going on in the government. [00:15:18] Jason: And the U S dollar is like, I think it's been going down from its original value down and down as they've been stripping value out of it through inflation and giving that money to who knows who. And so. I think there's going to be a big transition. It's going to get really stressful. [00:15:33] Jason: And I think the businesses that are just able to last through this transition and endure and they're focused on the long game are the ones that are going to win.  [00:15:43] Sam: Absolutely.  [00:15:44] Jason: And there's going to be a lot just eaten up.  [00:15:46] Sam: Yeah. And if you don't allow that perspective of what you just explained about business to apply to your own self and your health, you know, what got you here won't get you there. [00:15:54] Sam: And if you want to sustain and succeed through the turmoil, then you need to adapt. And when you have a high stress state, you actually lose BDNF expression in the brain brain neurotropic factor and brain derived neurotropic factor. And that is our adaptability aspect and factor in our brain. And it literally decreases its efficiency, the higher, the more chronically stressed we are. [00:16:18] Sam: And so it's super important. You guys can look up BDNF and understand its role with oxygenation in the brain. And so fundamentally, you know, the more oxygenated your brain is, the greater your access to intuition, memory, and high level thinking. And those are key components to succeeding in business. [00:16:33] Sam: And when you are in a state of constant survival mode, constant reactivity, constant push, hustle, you lose that space to develop creative longterm solutions. You lose that space to be able to get that spark of inspiration on how to pivot around the corner and see around that corner or do something a little differently than what other people are doing. [00:16:55] Sam: And that's why even you look at like Thomas Edison, Benjamin Franklin, like they would love to access that like state estate, the theta state just akin to sleep. They would put like a lead ball in their hand over a metal plate. And then as they were falling asleep. It would drop and the ball would hit the metal plate wake them up and they'd have their pen and their quill and ink on the table with a candle and then they'd have their formula or problems they were trying to solve and then they'd go to solving it because that was deep parasympathetic state where that creativity was opened up brain oxygenation was opened up. And me, just like so many of y'all out there, like, I'm like, man, I do not like meditating, I do not like calming down, like slowing down.  [00:17:31] Jason: I mean, especially if we're addicted to dopamine and adrenaline, like slowing down feels like a waste of time.  [00:17:39] Sam: Oh yeah, it does. And so you, most of you have heard of dopamine, serotonin, and adrenaline slash norepinephrine, right? That's only 20 percent of our neurotransmitters. [00:17:51] Sam: Okay. What's the other 80 percent glutamate and GABA, right? Glutamate is the exitory neurotransmitter. So that's what animates our body. Think glutamate animate, but then GABA is what balances that. So GABA helps slow things down, shut things down. And it's kind of interesting that popular culture slash society, like you don't hear much about GABA. [00:18:13] Sam: And the reason why is because they're selling us GABA in the form of alcohol. Alcohol is a huge GABA receptor connector, so it just hits the GABA and you feel kind of calm and relaxed. And so people love alcohol to be social because you want to be in a slight more parasympathetic state to be social, right? [00:18:30] Sam: Because high stress doesn't lead to—  [00:18:32] Jason: What about scrolling on social media?  [00:18:33] Sam: Social media is going to be hitting dopamine, not so much the GABA. But scrolling social media is going to be giving dopamine, new information. Ooh, new information. I learned something new, like boom, like that constant external input stimulus. [00:18:45] Sam: But when you look at the importance of GABA and you understand that a lot of us aren't making it on our own, which is why we're staying in such a high stress state all day. Yeah. And then we take a GABAergic, like GABA or a benzo or some weed or something that, that can hit that, that GABA receptor instead of making our own endogenous GABA. [00:19:02] Sam: And that's what happens when you're in a parasympathetic state is your body is creating its own GABA to balance out the brain. And that's what drove me to developing a suite of tools called Peace on Demand that I have at my wellness center that are physics based modalities that drop you into that parasympathetic state without sitting there fighting against your brain and trying to force yourself to meditate. [00:19:21] Sam: And then also with hyperbaric oxygen therapy, that's another tool that induces a parasympathetic state over the course of the treatment. And so I found tools because my brain, I had a hard time controlling with the autoimmune disease that I had and how stressed and on fire my brain was, I had a lot of difficulty finding that space, but without those tools, you can still utilize things like breath work, even if it's just longer exhale than the time you're inhaling or like four seconds in, you know, hold for a little bit and then eight seconds out or seven seconds out. [00:19:48] Sam: That, that's just like the simplest form of breath work to kind of activate the vagus nerve and slow down that that nervous system and get you into a more parasympathetic state but it's really interesting when you see that some of the most creative people and the most successful people, they're not super high strung. At a certain point, you'll see a lot of successful people that are high strung. Push, push hustle. [00:20:10] Sam: But then you go to that next level. You look at like the Elon's of the world, or, you know, so these people are on that next level. You watch them speak. They're calm. They have this, you know, they go hype on at times to like reach certain goal. But then they also have that balance. So the key is balance. [00:20:26] Sam: Don't beat yourself up for when you feel stressed out. Just make sure that before you continue that stress rollercoaster, like find some space to find some peace, do some breathing, take a pause, give yourself that chance to take a break. That'll start developing some resiliency in your nervous system so that you don't burn out. [00:20:42] Jason: Yeah, it does seem like really high performers are highly adaptable to, you know, situations. So they move and adapt quickly. It seems like they are able to maintain some calm, but they also are really quick thinkers, like their thinking seems to be faster than normal. I notice for me, I get really frustrated with team members when they're not— [00:21:05] Jason: I'm like, "come on, this is super quick. Like, look how fast I can do this." And I'm like, "keep up." And so that becomes a little bit of a frustration. I'm like, why is everybody slow? I saw this really interesting thing. My son sent me this and he's really into football. And I guess there's some quarterbacks that are now training with VR. [00:21:23] Jason: Playing the game in VR and but they're doing it at 1. 5 speed. And so they're getting used to everything being fast and they've adapted to that. So then when they go and play, it feels like everything's in slow motion. And I was like, wait a sec. I listen to telegram messages at two speed. I listened to audio books at two, between 1.8 to two speed. Like, so my brain is probably more adapted to speed.  [00:21:49] Sam: Yes.  [00:21:50] Jason: And and so I'm able to process, I was just hanging out with somebody who has a lot more money than me, who runs, who's the CEO of Real, Sharran Srivatsaa. And he talks really fast and he thinks really fast. Like this guy is sharp. [00:22:03] Jason: And I'm like, how does he move so fast? You know? But also and he doesn't seem like stressed out or anything. One of the things I've noticed, maybe like sparks this GABA sort of thing is just for me, reading? Just reading, actually reading not like high speed audiobooks, but sitting down with a book and processing information, my body's in a calm state. I feel a really deep calm where I'm in a flow sort of state reading and absorbing and processing information. So I found that can be a really good tool for me. [00:22:34] Jason: Sarah and I go do your peace on demand thing, which is just awesome. And a game changer. It's really been helpful for Sarah. It's kind of, I compare it to doing a float session, having a really good float session which doesn't happen every time you do a float session, but it happens every time you do Peace on Demand and you don't have to get wet and naked, and nothing gets in your eyes or ears on accident sometimes and stings. [00:22:54] Jason: So that's nice. The other thing I've noticed is just walking. So I went and did EMDR therapy for a while, for like a year with a therapist, bilateral stimulation, both sides of the brain is the concept. And then I noticed like, well, walking is bilateral stimulation. And so that's like a free, very cheap version of EMDR therapy is just to go on walks. [00:23:14] Jason: And rather than running, which is like, Hey, stress response. I found walking is very calming, especially if I'm really stressed. If I go for a walk, it kind of signals to my body, "Hey, you're okay. You're not being chased by a saber tooth tiger right now." So your fight or flight, calm down. So those are the things that work for me. [00:23:32] Jason: I don't know, but those are great tools. I don't know.  [00:23:35] Sam: Yeah. So what those are doing are like, you mentioned a keyword there and that's safe, right? And so you're creating these environments. One, you're reading a book, gaining new knowledge, and you're not cramming the book in a stressed out state to try to memorize it for a test, right? Which so much of us get programmed in school at an early age, that like reading means like, focus hard and stress out over what you're reading. [00:23:56] Sam: But if you allow yourself to relax into that flow state, and you mentioned flow state as well, flow doesn't happen when you're in super high stress state. Some people We'll try to say, "Oh yeah, I'm in flow" because they've got like dopamine coursing and cortisol coursing and  [00:24:10] Jason: they're like manic and going crazy.  [00:24:12] Sam: Yeah, exactly. [00:24:13] Jason: They're busy, but they're not productive.  [00:24:15] Sam: Yeah. And when you get productive and when you feel like you're going fast and your team isn't responding fast enough, like you have that adaptability, you have that BDNF that's really efficient in your brain because you practice going in and out of these states and you spend a lot of time in this flow and in this GABA balanced state Where you're not hyper stressed out and one one thing that also on a biochemistry level explains some of this is: in a sympathetic nervous system response, your body is trying to find as much glucose as possible to burn glucose for fast quick energy, which creates oxidative stress on the body, which creates inflammation. And then your body has to like go clear out all the junk but it doesn't care that it's creating a bunch of junk to clear out, because it's trying to help you survive short term. [00:24:59] Sam: When you're in a parasympathetic state, you're looking at a—  [00:25:02] Jason: Does it make you crave sugar then?  [00:25:03] Sam: Yeah, so high stress makes you crave sugar. Whereas parasympathetic state, you're on a more fat burning metabolism. You're not creating as much oxidative stress. You're like expressing longevity genes. You're expressing anti inflammatory genes. [00:25:16] Sam: Your body literally shifts into almost a different state, not just mentally, but biophysically and biochemistry wise all throughout your body. You adapt based on the nervous system state that you allow. And that's where it does come down to personal responsibility to make the choice to start practicing finding this state that will empower so much more potential for your life than that narrow band of, you know, survival programming and high stress thinking. [00:25:46] Sam: And then it's better for your health longterm too, because you're not just compounding oxidative stress nonstop and then needing those negative inflammatory inputs to make your dopamine stay high. And you can just find that peace. And then you'll find a much higher level of performance and that flow state will start just happening naturally constantly, which is what's been happening for Jason as he's been practicing these things as well. [00:26:08] Jason: Got it. Okay. Very cool. So little teaser, what are you going to talk about a little bit at DoorGrow Live that will be revelatory or helpful for people that might be a little bit stressed in their business or are wanting to take their performance to the next level? And I just, I want to point out, the difference I've noticed just in clients doing time studies and things like this. [00:26:32] Jason: Some of my clients will, we can see in their time study that they, it takes them in the latter half of the day, like the afternoon, an hour to do stuff that takes them 10 minutes in the morning. They're just, they're running out of brain chemicals. They're running out of like, what are neurotransmitter chemicals that they produce while sleeping? [00:26:51] Jason: They're now no longer productive and efficient, even though they're working really hard and they're really busy. And so, so yeah, maybe you could tease a little bit. What could we talk about there that might optimize their productivity so that they could actually feel superhuman and get two to three times the amount of output with the same amount of work or stress or effort? [00:27:14] Sam: Yeah, so we're going to go into a little bit more detail on some other aspects of the foundations of performance. So today we focused on nervous system, which is key. But. Controlling our nervous system isn't just as easy as thinking about it. There's some environmental factors. There's some lifestyle choices we can make. Often, we have a really hard time making those changes due to the, those well worn grooves, like, you know, skis on a slope that are really hard to get out of. And so I'm going to help with some simple truths that you'll understand and make it a lot easier to start making small shifts that will create massive change and that don't have to be stressful or induce anxiety or feel hard. It'll actually feel easy. So I'm going to help you understand some fundamental truths about your biology and That will unlock unlimited potential.  [00:28:03] Jason: Yeah, because I think every entrepreneur listening, myself included, I'm sure you as well, have been in those time periods where you feel like you're working so hard and you're investing so much time and energy, and you're going nowhere like it feels like you're just treading water and you're burning yourself out and you're like, "why am I not adding hundreds of doors? Why am I not growing my business? Why am I not getting ahead? Why am I seeing idiots get further along than me?" You know, like, " why is this not working for me?" And and I think that all plays into that like that. Everything you're talking about plays into that.  [00:28:41] Sam: You'll find yourself having permission to make some changes and the permission is a key aspect of that courage and that bravery to choose something different to focus on something different. [00:28:56] Sam: I mean, we all hear where you, where your attention goes, your focus grows, you know, and what you focus on is what you create, you know, all these things. What does that fundamentally and literally mean when it comes to the way we choose our life experience? And what can we create when our choices change and how can we be empowered to make those choices? [00:29:16] Sam: Those are some of the more intricate topics that we'll discuss.  [00:29:19] Jason: Got it. Almost like shifting from feeling like, "Hey, I'm giving up something or sacrificing in some way that in actuality, you're getting more."  [00:29:30] Sam: Oh, so much more. Exactly. So much more. Yeah. Cool.  [00:29:34] Jason: So. Those of you listening, I'm guessing you're growth oriented, growth minded. [00:29:39] Jason: You want to get more. Come to DoorGrow Live. Come hear Sam talk. So cool. Sam, appreciate you coming here on the #DoorGrowShow. If people are hanging out in Austin or curious about what you're up to, how can they find you? Peace on Demand. Tell them about your stuff and how people might be able to follow you or get in touch. [00:29:58] Sam: Yeah. So we have a small wellness center here. It's a private, you know, high touch concierge space, very comfortable here in Austin. And it's open for business by appointment only but just go to beamhyperbarics.Com and you can book an appointment. If you want to reach out to me I am Sam Womack. [00:30:15] Sam: On Instagram or you can send a message through the website. Easier website to remember is beam.do B E A M dot D O. And yeah, just reach out, come hang out. You don't even have to buy something to come in. Just hit me up. We'll make sure that I'm around and we can sit on the couch in the back and talk life. [00:30:34] Jason: All right. Awesome, Sam. Appreciate you coming on and excited to have you at DoorGrow Live.  [00:30:40] Sam: Yeah. I'm excited as well. Looking forward to it. I love what you're doing. And I think the steps that you're taking to help empower people beyond just showing them tactics and strategies, but helping them live a more fulfilled and empowered life. [00:30:50] Sam: That's what it's all about. So thank you for that work you're doing.  [00:30:53] Jason: Yeah, absolutely. We've just noticed like we can give them all the right tactics and strategies, but if they don't incorporate the other things, it's kind of like you're trying to run a race up the mountain with rocks in your backpack, like boulders, you know, it's just, it's so much more efficient if we get everything else in alignment and usually it's never the business piece that's really what's holding them back. It's not the tactics it's mindset. It's their mental health. It's like everything else, their family. Yeah. So we're excited to bring you and some others that are going to just unlock a lot of things for our clients and for non clients that are coming to DoorGrow Live. [00:31:32] Jason: So appreciate you.  [00:31:34] Sam: Yeah, you bet. Thank you. And just one last thing is you guys are all doing such a great job too. Like, don't think of this as any type of a criticism or, "Oh, you're not doing good enough." Like you're doing such an excellent job with the tools that you were programmed with the upbringings you had with the environment you're in. [00:31:48] Sam: So like, just look at it as a chance to learn something new and be empowered by it. But you guys are all doing such a great job. And so keep it up.  [00:31:56] Jason: Yeah, everybody's doing the best they can with their current limited access to knowledge and resources that they put out. Whatever. All right, cool. Awesome, Sam. I'll let you go. All right. So, if you are a property management entrepreneur and you're wanting to add doors or increase your profit or lower your stress, reach out to us at DoorGrow we would love to help you grow and scale your business. You can check us out at DoorGrow. com. And if you're wanting to join our free community, get a little bit more info about us, hang out with some other property managers, go to DoorGrow club. com to join our free community and connect with other property managers and get some cool free stuff. And until next time to our mutual growth, everybody. Hope you all crush it. Bye everyone. [00:32:38] Jason: You just listened to the DoorGrowShow We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com Listen everyone is doing the same stuff SEO PPC pay-per-lead content social direct mail and they still struggle to grow at DoorGrow We solve your biggest challenge getting deals and growing your business Find out more at doorgrow.com Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe until next time take what you learn and start DoorGrow hacking your business and your life.

It's Part 2 of our three set episodes of BSE this week. Let's check out the callers!Caller #3 is Cole who is 26yrs old from Manila.  Cole is dating rich and that's the big selling point for her.  While he said he was them exclusive, she wanted a better title.  All the formalities led to a breakup.Caller #4 is Louie who is 40yrs old from Manila.  Louie is dating a younger guy who has cheated on him multiple times.  He also owes Louie various things, so Louie just wants to ask the group for a confrontation plan.We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify!

It's Valentintes Week and you know that means it's a bussssssyyyyyy time on the podcast.  It's a triple set of BSE with Mo, Sam and Mara taking calls from all over the Metro and around the world.  Let's check out the red hearts or the red flags!Caller #1 Lester who is 29yrs old from Manila.  Lester wanted to say with a girl who he impregnated her.  Now that's she's cheated on him with a colleague, all the plans have gone down the drain.Caller #2 is Jess who is 29yrs old from Alabang.  Jess' boyfriend is not able to commit due to some life stress.  How much longer does she need to wait before she prioritizes herself?We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify!

Here's a rare occurrence!  The whole GTWM crew is together for an episode to celebrate Alex' Netflix special and to break down some calls.  More ladies on the show tonight and its aninteresting show we have in store.  Lets get to the calls!Caller #1 is Hazel who is 24yrs old from Manila.  Hazel is dating a rich kid who is surviving off of his fathers money but unwilling to make a career for himself.  Should she rely on inheritance or look for a more ambitious future?Caller #2 is Bernadine who is 34yrs old from Los Angeles.  Bernadine has influencers vibes and she is concerned if her desire to date foreigners is the reason she is single at 34.We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify

Ed Diab is a leading wildfire litigation attorney who has recovered over $1.65 billion on behalf of wildfire victims against power companies. He has secured numerous landmark settlements, including $415 million in the 2017 North Bay Fires, $582 million in the 2018Camp Fire, and $210 million in the 2018 Woolsey Fire. In 2020, he received the prestigious Daily Journal - California Lawyer Attorney of the Year Award for recovering $360 million for 20 public entities affected by the 2017 Thomas Fire, Montecito Mudslides, and 2018 Woolsey Fire. Recently named to the Daily Journal's Top Plaintiffs Lawyers list for 2024, Diab has represented numerous counties and municipalities, including Los Angeles County, Sonoma County, and the Town of Paradise. He has also been court-appointed to serve in multiple leadership positions in wildfire litigations.Ed Diab's Trusted Resources:Mental Health & Counseling Services: Adrienne O'Neal, MS, MFT,www.redrockcounseling.com;Medical: Dr. Brandt Maloney, MD (646) 416-1233; Offering free telehealth consultations for wildfire victims/evacueesPublic Insurance Claim Adjuster: Iron Claim, Michael Fusco, mafusco@ironclaim.com;(404) 456.3333; (404) 875-5866 www.ironclaim.com;https://meetironclaim.com/california (Free resource guide for insurance)Realtor: Michael Ragazzo, (818) 200-3040, michael@thepetersgroup.comWildfire Lawsuit (Eaton Fire) – property damage, business losses, injuries/wrongfuldeath: Ed Diab, Esq.; https://www.dcfirm.com; https://www.fireattorneys.com; ed@dcfirm.com; (626) 248-8660Construction/Rebuild Consultant: OHS Construction, Sam Oh (818) 913-0638; sam@ohs-group.comInsurance Coverage/Bad Faith: Renee Callantine, Esq.,https://www.cornerlaw.com/attorneys/renee-c-callantineTax Lawyer: Robert Wood, Esq.; (415) 834-0113; https://www.woodllp.com–Additional General Resources:Visit https://www.ca.gov to replace important documents, such as driver's licenses, state tax records, birth certificates, and more.Los Angeles County Parks is offering free youth and teen camps for those impacted by the Eaton Fire. Visit www.parks.lacounty.gov to register https://RESPONSE.CA.GOV provides Californians with information and resources for current incidents, transportation impacts, vital health services information, shelter and housing locations, unemployment assistance, and other state information.Information about filing an unemployment claim with the California Employment Development Department. Call 800-300-5616 if you have questions.Help for military veterans through the California Department of Veterans Affairs.Apply for food assistance from the state.Apply for Disaster Unemployment Assistance through the state.–For other resources, see LawHelpCA.org listings on disaster assistance and recovery. Your recovery may start with establishing who you are or where you lived. The State Bar provides a list of agencies and next steps to get a duplicate California driver's license or identity card, birth certificate, marriage license, or other documents. Get help with a lost document or find duplicate documents.Christopher CarlinFounderMGMT PartnersProject Management / owners representativeHelp manage the projects and streamline the process from permitting to completion of build.http://mgmtpartners.com

It's Part 2 of our back to back BSE with  Mo, Sam, and Mara.  Let's check out our remaining two calls for this weekend! Caller #3 is Joe who is 47yrs old from Dubai.  Joe lost his wife to a heart attack during the pandemic.  He was also recently diagnosed with Stage 4 cancer.  He met a new girl who she now has Diabetes.  She is also a very unhealthy eater and he is trying to tell her to watch her health so he doesn't have to relive the trauma of a loved one dying, but its causing them to fight. Caller #4 is Andie who is 35yrs old from San Diego.  Andie's husband has accumulated quite the list of things that making Andie lose respect for him -- much of it dealing with microcheating.  They have kids but how much is too much patience before she cuts ties, though she doesn't want her kids to have to go through a broken family. We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify

Welcome to the first BSE episode of 2025! It's Mo, Sam and Mara jumping into the podcast scene for the new year with some fun conversation and learning moments.  So far so good for Year 14, lets keep the good time rolling! Caller #1 is Mia who is 38yrs old from Singapore.  Mia is a beautiful mom who has built a very successful life for herself in the Philippines.  But she recently married a foreigner and they have a baby. A career move back to Singapore has made her wonder if she trashed her great life in the PH. Caller #2 is Kai who is 37yrs old from Leyte.  Kai's dad just had his second child outside of his marriage.  The first time traumatized his mother and now he is wondering if he should tell her about this next one. We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify

It's the last episode of the year! GTWM Year 13 Episode 116 with the BSE girls to wrap up another strong, strong season!  It's a fun episode so lets celebrate it together! Caller #1 is Riri who is 33yrs old from Cebu.  Riri found nudes of her school batchmate on her husbands drive.  The affair was from over a year ago but now she wants to send the nudes on their school group chat. Caller #2 is V who is 36yrs old from Copenhagen.  V is getting harassed at her office because she was selected for a year end bonus. Caller #3 is Janna who is 33yrs old from Bohol.  Janna's crazy sister-in-law told her husband that their child is from a different father.  This crazy shit stems from a wedding sukob incident from earlier in the year. We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

It's Part 2 of our back to back BSE special with Sam Oh and Mara Aquino joining Mo for two more calls and we are doing it local baby! Caller #3 is Yang who is 30yrs old from QC.  Yang was just about to break up with her Type A personality boyfriend when she found out she was pregnant.  Now that they are going to give it a shot, how can she find the soft side of his Type A? Caller #4 is Mike who is 29yrs old from Manila.  Mike has zero inspiration for his girlfriend.  He barely has a pulse about anything.  He wants to end it but doesn't want the responsibility of breaking her heart. We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

It's a BSE to kick off the weekend and the highly sought after tandem of Mo, Sam and Mara are back it again fort a back-to-back slate of episodes as we creep toward Christmas and the end of this season!  We are going abroad for this first ep, lets check out the calls! Caller #1 is KC who is 31yrs old from Toronto.  KC's boyfriend wants to have a family but doesn't believe in marriage.  Should she try to convince him to marry her because it means a lot to her? Caller #2 is Migs who is 40yrs old from Geneva, Switzerland.  Migs was spanked, the proper word is actually beaten, as a child and she is suffering from Post Traumatic Stress Disorder from it.  Now a mother of her own, she is trying to navigate through the traumas of her childhood. We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

It's Part 2 of our BSE back to back!  Lets go! Caller #3 is Patrick who is 34yrs old from Pasig.  Patrick's has a big blow up fights with his wife and he wants to know if its normal in an early marriage. Caller #4 is Anne who is 52yrs old from Los Angeles.  Anne just broke up with her narc bf and she has some dirt on him that she wants to release to ruin his career. We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

BSE LFG! Fresh from announcing that Good Times Radio has just won the Spotify Award for Best New Podcast, the group is on cloud 9!  Now join them as they take calls from all over the world in a back to back BSE set! Caller #1 is Josh who is 27yrs old from Manila.  Josh is an "illegitimate child" and his father who kept him secret just passed away two weeks ago.  Struggling with the loss and unsure of what the future holds, Josh is trying to find any kind of hope once this storm settles. Caller #2 is Magdalena who is 32yrs old from South Korea.  Maggie got pregnant from her super babaero boyfriend who keeps threatening to leave her.  She is trying to keep this relationship together but it really might not be worth saving. We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Ending the month of November with a BSE episode on a rare Friday night!  Mo, Sam, and Mara come all dressed up for this evening GTWM episode to start your weekends.  It's a lot of fun with some good lessons learned so lets check out the calls! Caller #1 is Liz who is 31yrs old from Manila.  Liz is a newlywed to a seaman who she found out was posting some horny shit online.  With a new baby in a new marriage, she wants to know if she should end this now before it becomes an established thing with him. Caller #2 is Jack who is 29yrs old from Manila.  Jack's new partner is ultra controlling.  She doesn't trust him in his work trips but the problem is, this is what pays for their lifestyle. Caller #3 is Rex who is 36yrs old from Edmonton.  Rex and his wife had a fight the other day that got him jailed.  The scandal has caused a problem with the family but Rex wants to work it out with his wife. We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Best Show Ever! It's a huge start to the weekend as Mo just received word that Good Times Radio was just nominated as Best New Podcast for 2024! So congrats to the morning team! Tonight we kick off the weekend with 3 calls that Mo, Sam, and Mara will tackle from different perspectives -- as usual. Let's check out the calls! Caller #1 is Thalia who is 24yrs old from Toronto.  Thalia is a Philippine rich girl living a very humble and modest life in Canada.  She has been struggling to find a good job and is now tempted to go home to the Philippines where an offer to take over her lucrative family business awaits.  Should she go? Caller #2 is Kay who is 36yrs old Qatar.  Kay's sister is married to another girl who has a sister.  And the sisters in laws are fighting because one sister got drunk and obnoxious and another sister got made and now the sisters are fighting and think their sisters marriage is struggling.  Try to keep up. Caller #3 is Gray who is 38yrs old from New Zealand. Gray's husband is cheating on her with online girls.  But after going through all the ugly details, Gray has a little secret of her own. We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Best Show Ever! Sam is back, which completes the trio of BSE as Mo, Sam , and Mara drop a weekend episode for you guys!  This is the only GTWM for the weekend with Alex down under, so lets get down ourselves with a couple of abroad calls to make you ponder. Caller #1 is Ann who is 36yrs old from Dubai.  Ann has a Lebanese boyfriend that shes cheating on with her TOTGA. Now that the TOTGA is proposing marriage, how does she break up with her boyfriend without having him find out?  Plot thickens as her fiance to be doesn't know she has a boyfriend either. Caller #2 is TM who is 50yrs old from Germany.  TM called the show recently about her escort escapades in Amsterdam.  She found a new escort that tocks her world but how much of this is really sustainable? We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

The beautiful Sam Oh makes her return to the pod after a week off and we have a fun and interesting show ahead! It's GTWM Year 13 Episode 95 to start your weekend!  Let's check out the calls! Caller #1 is Tori who is 33yrs old from Los Angeles. Tori called last episode with Alex and this is the much awaited update to the family sex scandal that we heard in Episode 94. Caller #2 is Sebastian who is 36yrs old from Cairns, Australia.  Sebastian's 4 year old daughter has a rare cancer that she going through chemo for.  The whole experience that turned off his way from the idea of having another kid.  How can he convince her to have one more? Caller #3 is Mae who is 34yrs old from Wellington, New Zealand.  Mae met a handsome guy on Bumble 8 days ago and she thinks he is love bombing her.  GTWM has a new sponsor! Ito ang first online live streaming bingo sa Pinas na pwede kang maglaro at mag-enjoy sa halagang 1 peso! I-download lang ang BingoPlus app sa Google Play and App Store, or visit www.bingoplus.com⁠ to learn more. BingoPlus! The first online poker casino in the Philippines. Licensed by Pagcor. Gaming is for 21-year-olds and above only. Keep it fun. Game Responsibly! We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

It's a proper BSE weekend with Mo, Sam and Mara together again after some time off!  Episode 91 of this Year 13 and one that should have you staring at your boyfriend in disgust.  Let's check out the calls! Caller #1 is Macha who is 34yrs old from Dubai.  Macha is a return caller and she is having the absolute worst time with her handsome Turkish boyfriend who is now abusive after an intense honeymoon stage. Caller #2 is Marie who is 43yrs old from Singapore.  Marie's BF is stonewalling her but is it a product of his personality or is she just a bit too overwhelming? Caller #3 is Anna who is 35yrs old from Manila.  Anna's worried her evasive boyfriend is a bit sus.  She hasn't met his family or friends -- so theres a possibility she's a side chick. GTWM has a new sponsor! Ito ang first online live streaming bingo sa Pinas na pwede kang maglaro at mag-enjoy sa halagang 1 peso! I-download lang ang BingoPlus app sa Google Play and App Store, or visit www.bingoplus.com⁠ to learn more. BingoPlus! The first online poker casino in the Philippines. Licensed by Pagcor. Gaming is for 21-year-olds and above only. Keep it fun. Game Responsibly! We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via SpotifY! --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Crazy funny back to back episodes of GTWM in store for you all this end of the month weekend!  It's Mo, Alex, and Sam Oh -- one of the more popular current trios of the show -- taking calls from all Philippine based callers.  It's toooo funny, you cant miss it. Caller #1 is JD who is 36yrs old from Pampanga. JD met a girl on Bumble last month and after a ton of red flags, he is wondering if this relationship has staying power. Caller #2 is Angel who is 23yrs old from Manila.  Angel's long term boyfriend wants to know if shes willing to allow him to have an open relationship. GTWM has a new sponsor! Ito ang first online live streaming bingo sa Pinas na pwede kang maglaro at mag-enjoy sa halagang 1 peso! I-download lang ang BingoPlus app sa Google Play and App Store, or visit www.bingoplus.com⁠ to learn more. BingoPlus! The first online poker casino in the Philippines. Licensed by Pagcor. --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

We are back to BSE episodes with Mo, Sam, and Mara to kick off the weekend!  It's a fun show filled with chatter and revelations.  Join the trio as they tackle calls. Caller #1 is Mike who is 38yrs old from Manila.  Mike went through a really bad breakup and has since been ghosting girls left and right.  He found his long-time crush and ended up ghosting her as well.  Now that he's in a new relationship with a beautiful doctor, he cant help but remind himself of TOTGA. Caller #2 is Yen who is 34yrs old from Bulacan.  Yen's marriage isnt the greatest.  On one business trip a fellow married co-worker tried to hook up with her and while she resisted as best as she could, lingering thoughts of him has her confused. Caller #3 is Migs who is 33yrs old from Clark.  Migs has a great paying job that he loves but it keeps him away from his family most of the week.  His wife wants more time for her and their child but how can he makes both things work? GTWM has a new sponsor! Ito ang first online live streaming bingo sa Pinas na pwede kang maglaro at mag-enjoy sa halagang 1 peso! I-download lang ang BingoPlus app sa Google Play and App Store, or visit www.bingoplus.com to learn more. BingoPlus! The first online poker casino in the Philippines. Licensed by Pagcor. Gaming is for 21-year-olds and above only. Keep it fun. Game Responsibly! We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

It's Part 2 of our back-to-back weekend set of GTWM and Sam Oh joins Mo and Alex for this one!  The trio together brings a huge amount of laughter!  Don't miss this episode of truly good times! Caller #3 is Kayen who is 23yrs old from Manila.  Kayen makes P25,000 a month as a BPO agent.  But he has financial goals!  So he is looking to bring in a sugar mommy to get his numbers closer to P100,000 a month. Caller #4 is Albert who is 36yrs old from Singapore.  Albert is married with a kid, both who are in the PH.  In SG though, he found himself a new girl and 5 months into this affair, the girl is pregnant.  Will he leave his wife for the new one? GTWM has a new sponsor! Ito ang first online live streaming bingo sa Pinas na pwede kang maglaro at mag-enjoy sa halagang 1 peso! I-download lang ang BingoPlus app sa Google Play and App Store, or visit www.bingoplus.com to learn more. BingoPlus! The first online poker casino in the Philippines. Licensed by Pagcor. Gaming is for 21-year-olds and above only. Keep it fun. Game Responsibly! We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Kicking off a new month of GTWM goodness are the boys Mo and Alex taking on some interesting calls on this weekend back-to-back of the pod.  Sam Oh joins them for the second set of the pack, so get ready for a ton of fun and laughs! Caller #1 is Anna who is 30yrs old from Manila.  Anna got catfished by a dick pic from her longtime crush.  After talking about it in bed, he hasn't called her back even though she wants to give this casual setup another chance. Caller #2 is Em who is 38yrs old form Manila.  Em heard Episode 64 and wants to give her take about her ex-fiance who had a hidden sexual side involving multiple men. GTWM has a new sponsor! Ito ang first online live streaming bingo sa Pinas na pwede kang maglaro at mag-enjoy sa halagang 1 peso! I-download lang ang BingoPlus app sa Google Play and App Store, or visit www.bingoplus.com to learn more. BingoPlus! The first online poker casino in the Philippines. Licensed by Pagcor. Gaming is for 21-year-olds and above only. Keep it fun. Game Responsibly! We will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

The symbolic episode 69 did not disappoint!  Welcome to a BSE edition of GTWM with Mo, Sam and Mara who are ready to tackle some crazy calls as we wrap up the weekend!  It's a lot of fun without the lack of shock value.  Let's check out the calls! Caller #1 is Katie who is 33yrs old from Manila.  Katie's husband died 6 months ago while consuming two Robust and having a stroke while he was in a sex act with a prostitute.  She is still reeling from his death but she is also fighting the anger from finding out the circumstances of his death. Caller #2 is Zac who is 36yrs old from Manila.  Zac and his wife are pregnant with their second child.  But she doesn't want the baby and he does.  She has gone as far as ordering the "abortion pills" and her mind is set that she is terminating the pregnancy. Caller #3 Jen who is 27yrs old from Manila.  Jen's baby daddy left her as she was about to give birth.  Now that he is trying to get back into their lives, she is hesitant to give him any chances. Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Let's kick off this weekend with a Mo/Sam tandem and 3 calls from outside the Philippines! Don't forget to rep your GTWM gear by checking out the official GTWM Merch store at gtwmpodcast.myshopify.com Caller #1 is Brad who is 29yrs old from Ireland.  Brad shares his heart-wrenching experience of dealing with intense heartbreak amidst trying to find his way in a new country.  Caller #2 is J who is 41yrs old from Dallas.  J opens up about the guilt and turmoil he faces after cheating on his wife while visiting his sick father in the Philippines.  His story delves into the complexities of infidelity and the quirks of marital forgiveness. Caller #3 is Ohana who is 48yrs old from Tokyo.  Ohana has found herself in a terrible marriage filled with all the qualities of chaos.  Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Let's kick off a brand-new week with another Mo, Alex and Sam trio! And a trio it is with 3 thirtysomethings calling for today's slate. It should be a fun time! Don't forget to rep your GTWM gear by checking out the official GTWM Merch store at gtwmpodcast.myshopify.com Caller #1 is Wyla who is 35yrs old from Chicago.  Wyla is in the US short term but she thinks she has found a long-term love.  She hates the LDR setup but is it possible to have both worlds? Caller #2 is Anne who is 37yrs old from Singapore.  Anne is so close to divorce due to her husband's inability to communicate.  Is it really him or perhaps the environment she creates? Caller #3 is Maris who is 35yrs old from Manila.  Maris is adopted and now having daddy issues.  Should she tolerate her dad's shit behavior if her mom allows it?  Or does she get involved because wrong is wrong. Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

This might be the first time the AMA x BSE crossover has occurred.  But if there will be a first, it might as well be this time.  Mo, Alex and Sam picked the perfect time to come together for support of the show.  This is a heavy episode they address the current challenges that is going on in the GTWM household. Caller #1 is Diane who is 30yrs old from Manila.  Diane's father is a doctor who has been accused of raping two 17-year-old girls and impregnating another 30-year-old.  This crazy behavior has created a huge gap in what was a very strong father/daughter relationship. Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Another BSE filled with a variety of opinions and good lessons learned with Mo, Sam and Mara!  It's GTWM Year 13 Episode 56, and its time to join the pod as they end the month of June while bringing in the weekend.  There's a lot to learn in this episode so make sure to stick around! Caller #1 is Shan who is 23yrs old from Seattle.  Shan broke the GTWM rule of going beyond 3 months with her FWB.  Now theres feelings, can she also keep a great friendship too? Caller #2 is Miguel who is 32yrs old from Las Vegas.  Miguel is a nurse that has moved around throughout the US since moving here.  Now that he's settled in Vegas, he wants to talk about the different forms of racism he has gone through. Caller #3 is Maika who is 28yrs old from Pampanga.  Maika is living in with her ex-gf.  She cant fully move on because they are still sleeping in the same bed, even though the relationship is clearly over. Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

The prodigal girls have returned! Sam Oh and Mara Aquino team up for a huge GTWM episode! Mara has not been on the show in 7 years and due to popular demand from the online audience, she makes a return and hasn't skipped a beat!  Join the 3 as they kick off the weekend with some nostalgic GTWM feels. Caller #1 is Riz who is 33yrs old from Manila.  Riz has a BF and 2 kids but because her BF was previously married, they cant get married themselves.  Her parents don't know about this situation so what should she do about telling them the truth. Caller #2 is Rex who is 46yrs old from Manila.  Rex and her girlfriend of 16yrs broke up because she wanted to try to have kids of her own. Brokenhearted, Rex wants to know what the future will look like for her after spending so many years together. Caller #3 is Vince who is 37yrs old from Laguna.  Vince has had a string of toxic relationships.  Now he has met a guy who is kind and caring, but Vince isnt attracted to him. Should he end things or is his new BF the thing he has always needed? Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Bridger is nothing if not polite even after comedian Sam Oh forces a gift on him. The two discuss deodorant slogans, middle school misogynists, and who Faith Hill is. Purchase tickets or the livestream to the I Said No Gifts! live show on June 26th: https://www.dynastytypewriter.com/events-calendar?loxi_pathname=%2Fi-said-no-gifts-7116 Don't forget to review the podcast, it's the least you can do. Follow the show on Instagram I Said No Gifts! Merch Send a Question to I Said No Emails! Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3Uw1W4v Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

It's a special BSE episode today as the radio trio of Mo, Sam, and Karylle team up for the first time to do GTWM!  Just hours before they start the radio show, they are answering your love/life problems and giving their takes on those issues.  It's a lot of fun but some life lessons to learn too. Caller #1 is Pat who is 30yrs old from London.  Pat's fiance cheated on her a few weeks ago. With their wedding coming up in a few months, she is worried this is something that will continue to bother her years into the marriage. Caller #2 is Aki who is 30yrs old from Manila.  Aki just came from a 6 year relationship and she found out her ex already has a new girlfriend. Caller #3 is Edward who is 34yrs old from London.  Edward is a nurse in the UK while his wife is in the Philippines.  He is worried she may be financially abusing him because she just bought a P100,000 iPhone and there is no way he can afford that. Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

BSE is back with a Mo, Sam, Nikko trio that makes this episode perfect for download while you make that long trip to wherever this Holy Week.  We have 3 calls from all over the world, checking out what real life drama exists out there.  Let's do this! Caller #1 is Mar who is 28yrs old from Manila.  Mar and her boyfriend just LDR'd  but she is the type that likes to have spicy aggressive sex.  So now that he is gone until August, can she wait that long without some action? Caller #2 is Kenneth who is 31yrs old from Chicago.  Kenneth's wife track his phone, his car and himself have Apple Tags and he is bothered by all the lack of privacy considering he is totally faithful. Caller #3 is Sam who is 33yrs old from Los Angeles.  Sam has been with her boyfriend for 13 yrs and in their LDR challenge, she feels he is not making the extra effort to communicate properly.  Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Literally fresh off of a BSE GTWM recording, Mo (and Sam!) jump on to the brand new Call to ARMS Playback room for our first ever live recording. We swap hot takes, talk a little sports, hand out this week's Basketball Championship Belt, Mo finally shares how much the Viva Hot Babes paid him to do their movie and also give away a Limited Edition Tissot Supersport Chrono Quartz Watch to a lucky listener. Thanks @thewatchstoreph! JOIN THE CALL TO ARMS PLAYBACK ROOM TO GET NOTIFIED ABOUT LIVE EPISODES AND GIVEAWAYS: https://www.playback.tv/calltoarms Join the Private Call to ARMS Telegram group: https://t.me/ +qz9nyBfFoHxjMml1 If you have a question, a hot take or a topic suggestion, send us a voice message by clicking on the link below! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/calltoarms/message

Best Show Ever with one of the Best Teams Ever! Yes, Nikko is back tonight on the podcast with Mo and Sam to throwback to the old BSE days!  It sounds like they never left!  It's a ton of fun today on the show as they break down real people problems that so many of you guys go through in life.  Stick around to learn the lessons but fully enjoy one of Philippine radios best trio ever. Caller #1 is Ron who is 30yrs old from Caloocan.  Ron is feeling career burnout.  Is there something he can do to stop himself from resigning or is this just typical Gen Z problems with todays employees? Caller #2 is Jo who is 35yrs old from Portland.  Jo is the breadwinner only child for her parents.  All those responsibilities have not allowed her to enjoy her life. Now at 35, her parents want a baby but she still has yet to experience a day of freedom for herself. Caller #3 is AJ who is 33yrs old from Manila.  AJ has a cousin who is like a sister to her.  But she is a kabit and AJ wants to step in an disrupt this affair by threatening the guy.  Is she stepping over her boundaries and is it worth the risk? Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

They say the best businesses are built on the foundations of friendship, and that's exactly what Samuel Loo and Singchuen Chiam, childhood pals, prove with their journey from elementary school to dominating the matcha scene on Amazon. Their tale is not just about the green goodness of matcha but a story of two friends who took divergent paths—law and business—only to converge into a powerhouse duo. With Sam's sharp legal acumen and Sing's Alibaba experience finesse, they've brewed up Naoki Matcha, a brand that resonates with quality and customer delight, nurturing it from a side hustle to a multi-million dollar success. Our conversation steers through the meticulous craft of standing out in a saturated market, with Sam and Sing revealing their three-year grind to perfecting their matcha blend. They share the trials of juggling full-time jobs while planting the seeds for Naoki Matcha, a testament to their enduring patience and entrepreneurial spirit. Their business acumen shines as they discuss the potency of Amazon PPC in propelling their revenue growth, and the strategic decision to maintain a premium on their product—ensuring Naoki Matcha is not just another tea on the shelf, but a premium experience for the discerning consumer. As we wrap up, the future of Naoki Matcha gleams with potential, from its lean operational approach to its plans for product diversification and international expansion. Their story isn't just an inspiration for Amazon FBA sellers and matcha aficionados but to anyone with entrepreneurial dreams, demonstrating that with the right blend of passion and strategy, even the smallest idea can grow into a thriving E-commerce empire. Join us as we toast to the success of Sam and Sing, and keep an eye on your social media feeds—you might just catch the upcoming viral sensation of Bradley Sutton's matcha flan!   In episode 542 of the Serious Sellers Podcast, Bradley, Samuel, and Singchuen discuss: 00:00 - Childhood Friends Start Successful Matcha Business 08:35 - Exploring Opportunities With Macha Tea  11:33 - Journey to Success 14:50 - Product Growth From Gradual to Significant 20:46 - Brand Growth Through Market Analysis 21:26 - Strategic Growth of Naoki Matcha Brand 24:37 - Matcha Market Segmentation and Competition 28:56 - Success in their Amazon Business 30:15 - Amazon PPC Advertising Strategy Effectiveness 33:37 - Matcha Success Story and Plans For Future Growth ► Instagram: instagram.com/serioussellerspodcast ► Free Amazon Seller Chrome Extension: https://h10.me/extension ► Sign Up For Helium 10: https://h10.me/signup  (Use SSP10 To Save 10% For Life) ► Learn How To Sell on Amazon: https://h10.me/ft ► Watch The Podcasts On Youtube: youtube.com/@Helium10/videos Transcript Bradley Sutton: Today, we've got two childhood best friends from elementary school who linked up as adults and started a matcha Amazon business that now does millions of dollars a year. How cool is that? Pretty cool, I think.   Bradley Sutton: Black Box by Helium 10 houses the largest database of Amazon products and keywords in the world. Outside of Amazon itself, we have over 2 billion products and many millions more keywords from different Amazon marketplaces, from USA to Australia to Germany and more. Use our powerful filters to search through this database for pockets of opportunity that you might want to get into with your first or next product to sell on Amazon. For more information, go to h10.me/blackbox. Don't forget you can save 10% off for life on Helium 10 by using our special code SSP10.   Bradley Sutton: Hello everybody and welcome to another episode of the Serious Sellers Podcast by Helium 10. I'm your host, Bradley Sutton, and this is the show that's completely BS free, unscripted and unrehearsed organic conversation about serious strategies or serious sellers of any level in the e-commerce world. And we are going to the opposite side of the world today, to I believe they're in Singapore, and it's funny because the way they were introduced to me by Crystal and somebody else from Amazon she was like oh yeah, I want you to meet the Macha Bros, but I don't think that's their official name, so I'll let you guys go ahead and introduce yourselves to our audience. This is the first time we'll be on the show   Sam: Sure. So my name is Sam and this is my business partner, Singchuen. We're not actually brothers, but we work together quite closely on a business that we started together. Our business is called Naoki matcha and, as the name suggests, we sell matcha green tea powder in the United States, in the United Kingdom and in Singapore.   Bradley Sutton: You know what I've known you, of you or about you? I literally thought you guys were blood brothers entire time, not just because of that name, and so I've already learned something new. I literally thought, you guys were.   Sam: No, no. We get that a lot. We get that a lot.   Bradley Sutton: Brothers from other mothers.   Sam: Yes, I think we can go with that, yeah.   Bradley Sutton: Okay, all right, hold on now. Let's you know like I already learned something new, so let's just take it. Take it way back, both of you born and raised in Singapore.   Sam and Singchuen: Yep.   Bradley Sutton: How did you guys meet? Did you meet like some story, like you met in university, or how did you guys meet each other?   Singchuen: Sam and I met oh, this is Singchuen, by the way, so I'm the business partner. Sam and I met in primary school, so we have known each other for quite a long time.   Bradley Sutton: So that is a good story, all right. And then you just went to that. You went to the same one, or? Or you just met in the neighborhood, or what?   Sam: We went to the same one and we actually were in the same school so like 10 years, and then our paths kind of diverged for a little while. But we reconnected in university because we were both interested in like business and entrepreneurship and I think that's how it kind of like reconnected and we started exploring different things and that's how we started working together again.   Bradley Sutton: What did both of you major in in university?   Singchuen: I studied business and Sam, he was actually a lawyer.   Sam: Yeah, I studied law at university.   Bradley Sutton: Upon graduation, did both of you guys go into that field that you had studied law and business?   Singchuen: I guess in a sense that because we started a business, business would be quite relevant. But in that in another, in another complete sense, it wasn't really that relevant because the things that you studied in school were geared to get you a role in a company, so it wasn't very practical. But the concepts, they were useful.   Sam: Yeah, so after graduation I did practice law for like a couple of years and then, while doing this business, and then at the end of the two years, I realized that, like you know there was I had two opportunities and like this one kind of showed itself to be a bit more, have more potential, so I left the law and I went into e-commerce.   Bradley Sutton: Who discovered e-commerce first? Was it you, Sam?   Sam: Yeah. So I think I really found out about this opportunity on Amazon and FBA the ability to like sell in another country that is not yours. I think back in like 2015-2016 this is like early days, right but at that point in time I was still like a university student at Seoul 6th year, so we really didn't have like the kind of resources that we needed to really tackle this, this, this opportunity, right. So we spent some time like learning about how to approach it and we only really launched it like late 2016 and from then we went on our careers. We kind of like grew it slowly along the way and then after a few years, we realized that okay, the time is right, this is a good time to go all in.   Bradley Sutton: Okay. So in 2016 you guys had reconnecting, like, hey, let's do something together while still having day jobs at that time.   Singchuen: Yeah, exactly, Sam was a lawyer. I actually worked in e-commerce as well. I worked in Alibaba for quite a number of years, so it helped that I could bring a certain kind of context to how the Amazon platform worked, and so we decided to start this sort of like to see where this would be going, because it was exciting, it was an opportunity and we always wanted to have our own business. So that was sort of like the paradigm in which we started off on.   Bradley Sutton: And so at the time in 2016, when you first just started dabbling in e-commerce, it sounds like you weren't all in. Was it matcha that you got into? Was that your first thing, or was it other things?   Sam: Yeah, so when we first started, we started, as most people do, with like a search query on Alibaba.com. The first products we actually sold were like these glass teapots, so we realized that they were not too bad to sell. Actually, we reached like five figures in multi-revenue by like within a year, but we met the same problems that I think a lot of people encounter, which is that after a while, people see that you're somewhat successful and then they'll try to launch a complicated product and therefore, when we found that happened to us and we found it very difficult to grow, so we really were like scratching our heads to think about like what other types of products or categories that we could do, and that's why we landed on matcha.   Bradley Sutton: Okay, so when you landed on matcha, were you still working your day jobs, or by that time you were all in on Amazon already?   Sam: No, we were still working out day jobs because for matcha category and the grocery category we found that, like you know, it's not so much of like a quick win kind of situation. You need to invest the time and energy and you need to have quite a lot of patience before your results actually bear fruit, and for us that took actually a number of years because you need to kind of like build your credibility and gain experience in what you're selling as well.   Bradley Sutton: Are we still talking 2016? Are we already now in 2017 in the timeline, or where are we at when you guys decided matcha?   Sam: Right. So in 2016, we dabbled in matcha and then we spent the next two years essentially trying to improve the product and better understand the category and the product market fit as it is in the US, and we took like a couple of years to do that properly, and I think it was only about 2020, you know, right after COVID hit, when we realized that, okay, the product is good, we have a good product that can stand up against the other competitors in the space, and you're going to go all in and grow this thing.   Singchuen: On the side of this, because our matcha green tea is from Japan and there was a requirement I want to say it's a hard requirement, but there is an understanding that in order to get the good product in Japan, especially from suppliers, you kind of need to cultivate the relationship a little bit and take some time for them to trust you. And so it's not as though, as we didn't want the best product right in 2016. Number one it's not. It's a learning process, right, especially when what the market is telling you of a certain kind of taste that they prefer. But it's also bringing back those requirements to the suppliers and the factories to let them know this is the taste that we want and, barring communication barriers, there's still that they need to feel, feel each other out to exactly ascertain what we're looking for. And that took quite a bit more time than what you would be doing on Alibaba.   Bradley Sutton: That's what has been curious. This is not something you would just like find on Alibaba. So where did the like, how did you guys land on matcha? Was it something you guys just liked? Was it because you were doing tea cups and you just like it was a side thing? Like how in the world? Or did you find it in Helium 10? Or how in the world did you say you know what? I think there's opportunity in matcha. Let's go ahead and examine this further.   Singchuen: In Singapore, generally we are exposed to Japanese culture quite a little bit already, but more closely, I guess it's also because I liked green tea. So at the point of time I didn't drink a lot of matcha, but I knew about it. So we explored that as a potential item to try to sell and in a sense it checked all the other boxes as well right. Whether it is for the economics, the logistics, the business, fit, branding, pricing. And that's how we started off on like taking the first step.   Sam: I think also at that point in time this is like 2015, 2016, right, I think matcha was just beginning to get popular in the US. So, yeah, that's when I think the craze started, right. So I think we were also at like the right time in the right place and we realized that, you know, we could marry like our interests and the market opportunity in front of us, and that's how we really landed on matcha.   Bradley Sutton: I don't have any matcha shirts or anything, but you mentioned like Japanese culture. So I got my Astro Boy jacket here. I got my old school Japanese Tokyo Giants hat here. You know, I used to live in Japan when I was younger and and that was why you know, like matcha is not exactly a natural thing for an American person to like, but I kind of liked it. Before it was cool and now, now, like you said, it's just like booming. Everybody's like, hey, matcha, you know you can go to Starbucks and get matcha, this and you can get matcha, and you know non Asian markets, which before it was different. So that was, you know, a little bit of foresight. Now, when you first started with the matcha, you know you had said, until then you were doing dabbling in other things, were you profitable on the Amazon side? Or, up to that point, you still hadn't made profit in the first year or so of your Amazon business.   Singchuen: We tended to search for products that were more profitable on the first sale. So in that sense, the first products that we went to more like glass cups, g-ports, things like that they were already profitable. So it's not as though, as we were dabbling in things that were really difficult to do, low priced or otherwise.   Bradley Sutton: Your first matcha product that you launched? Was that the one that was successful, or did it take a couple of tries before things really started taking off?   Sam: Well, I think it is still the first product that we launched, but what we had to do was tweak the formulation over the years several times and each time we're trying to improve it and fine tune it to better suit, like the feedback that we were getting. So it is the same product, it looks the same, but they're always like tweaks over the years and this kind of like helps build that, I guess, average review score. That goes up because, like you know, you're getting closer to what people like with each iteration.   Bradley Sutton: To find that like perfect blend and everything. You kind of mentioned it and I know this about your history. So can you talk a little bit about, like we just said, this wasn't something. Oh, let me find something in Alibaba, let me just put my sticker on it. How did you look for I don't even want to call it factories, but producers of matcha in Japan like we said, it's not on Alibaba and then talk about the long process of? Actually, I believe you would fly to Japan and meet different places and try things. Talk about that long process how long did it take and what were the steps involved in that.   Singchuen: At the start, we asked for samples from willing factories and once we tasted them and we realized that this was something that could be in a ball pack of what's considered as good tasting to the market, we would ask the supplier whether they are willing to sell us a certain volume of matcha. So there are several factories in Japan that do just green tea, and their idea was sort of branch out to selling matcha as well, because there was where the growing market was, and these were the factories that were more suitable for us to go into, and once we spoke to them their experience with matcha may not be the best at the point of time, mind you, but they were willing to work with us and over a period of time, once we let them know exactly what we're looking for and they were willing to tweak to our preferences, that's when we got a good fit and from then, as our volume started going up, more and more, various factories started.   Bradley Sutton: Until that part, though. How long was that? Were we talking a month? Were we talking multiple months?   Singchuen: No, that actually took quite a long time. I think about three years at least so around 2016 to 2019,. On the marketing side, Sam was trying to define a market fit, but on the supply side, we were just trying to make sure that factories produce what we needed and the trust and formulation. That takes a while.   Bradley Sutton: How can somebody have that kind of patience? That's very rare, not just in matcha industry, but just Amazon or business industry to have that kind of patience to you know to like, hey, I'm spending two or three years to get this right. Like, is that just in your nature or what's going on there?   Singchuen: To be fair, I think we were not so much in a hurry, just to share a little bit. Personally, it's a little bit more of we always wanted to get a business eventually, but the timeline wasn't so important. We weren't in a rush. Sam, as Sam has mentioned just now, both of us had decent careers, so we were optimizing on that front as well and we're happy to wait.   Bradley Sutton: Like you said, you still had your day jobs, you know, for a time. So it wasn't like you know, like you were about to go out of business and I think that's important. You know, like people sometimes just like, all right, I'm going to quit my job before they even have like a viable business and that's what you know. That's not going to allow somebody to have the patience. That's interesting. Now, at what point in this three years did you finally have like a product just start taking off? And was it just random, like it was just one day that it started going viral and never looked back? Or was this something where it was like, all right, you know, over a few months you were selling 10 units a day, then 15 units, then 20, was it a gradual thing? Or when did what? Was that moment where it's like, oh shoot, we got this right and this is going to take off.   Sam: Yeah, I think it was really like a gradual process. But that point for us, I think, when the old shoot moment, I think, was when we realized that, like the monthly sales for this Macha product alone was quite significant and this was enough to basically sustain ourselves, number one and number two provide a good base and recurring cash flow to kind of grow the business from there. Yeah, and this was really about, like you know, as I said, 2020, mid 2020, early to mid 2020, after COVID started, where we realized that, hey, this thing has snowballed into something quite significant. So it was really a gradual process.   Bradley Sutton: If you can recall either of you, what was your sales the year before, in 2019, when you were still just dabbling in Macha and maybe still had some of the other products?   Sam: I would say that it was like maybe like six figures a year, low six figures a year, and then, okay, yeah, we was at that point in time. We were, we were often optimistic about, about close to doubling each year. So that was, that was where we were at.   Bradley Sutton: And then. So at that point, obviously still working full time jobs. And then it was at 2020, when it took off, and then you quit in 2020, your jobs or you still, even though it started taking off, you still were working your full time.   Sam: I wouldn't say it took off right. It was just at that point in time with, like, the good momentum that like we know that there's some something to stand on. So that was when we decided, okay, time to go all in. And then we know that the product was ready. And then we started doubling down on marketing in order to kind of know that, you know, this optimized product is available to everyone. And then that's how we kind of grew from there.   Bradley Sutton: What kind of marketing? I mean, obviously Amazon PPC is part of it. Was that it or other things as well?   Sam: So we did try a bunch of things at first, but by the late by late 2020, we realized that Amazon advertising PPC mainly is that engine that's going to give us the growth for the next few years, because we realized that, like on a cost acquisition basis, like you just can't beat it.   Bradley Sutton: You said 2019, low six figures. What about 2020, that your first really good year. What did you end approximately with?   Sam: I think we were just under seven.   Bradley Sutton: And then how about 2021?   Sam: Yes, somewhere, seven.   Bradley Sutton: All right. So now it's like you guys knew you had something. It wasn't just a fluke, you know. You had some consistency. Do you mind if I show your product on screen right now? For those watching this on YouTube?   Sam: Oh yeah, go ahead.   Bradley Sutton: So let me pull it up here. Was this variation family here of the superior ceremonial blend it says here, was this like your first product that you got into?   Sam: Yes, it was.   Bradley Sutton: Okay, now I'm looking. Now it's like you know, according to Amazon, according to Helium 10, you are selling throughout this variation family here, thousands of units, multiple six figures per month, just with this, with this fam variation family. So this is the one that is your, your big seller. So I mean, if I'm looking at these numbers correctly, unless this is just a very nice month here, you're like what in the you know mid seven figures now, or higher?   Sam: I think that's fantastic yeah.   Bradley Sutton: Okay and explain this product. You know there's a lot I like matcha. I understand it, but there's a lot of people who might like think like what? Like? Do you just like dump this in tea or do you actually use it to cook something? Like what? Like? How in the world are you selling almost 10,000 units of this a month? Like, what are the people buying this to use?   Sam: Right, I think the way to look at this product is that it's a form of tea and in Japan it's enjoyed as a form of tea. Now in America it's usually enjoyed in a, in a form of a latte. So imagine you have a tea and then I think in some parts of the US, like milk tea is popular, right. So in the same way you can add milk to matcha and then you get a Matcha Latte. So because people find that coffee is not working for them for various reasons whether like they feel, like you know, nervous or anxiety after that they try to find something else, right. So matcha kind of ticks all the boxes because it's got a little bit of caffeine, so you don't feel that like that anxiety that you get with coffee sometimes, and also there are like amino acids inside that help you stay alert for a longer time. So that was kind of like the health food appeal of matcha. But that's, I think, why it got popular and that's why people drink it. So we also wanted to kind of share a bit of that Japanese heritage of matcha in our product, which is why it looks the way it does, because in Japan actually the traditional way of preparing it is to take like a teaspoon of the powder, add some water and then whisk it up with this bamboo whisk until it becomes like nice and froth.   Bradley Sutton: I see that here in your A plus, your premium A plus content, so I can see a little bit of that here. You're telling that story. Really great branding here, I like that.   Sam: So they whip it up into like this frothy little mixture and I guess if you could kind of relate it back to coffee culture, I would say like it's like a Matcha Americano. That's the way that they would drink it and that's the main way it's consumed in Japan.   Bradley Sutton: Okay, now you've got just a beautiful listing here. You know, looks like premium A plus content. You're educating people here. You have a frequently asked questions, and then obviously you've got some great pictures here where you've got infographics. You've got, you know, like kind of like a history lesson of matcha. You have pictures of it. I mean what else? Like you even show the origin. I think I saw somewhere there's like different cities where this comes from. Where is that here, here? It is here Like you're like oh hey, this one is from Kyoto, this one's from Fukuoka. You have the city. So like I'm assuming that I mean, did you start this from like day one such in depth like information here, or is this just gradually how you were able to kind of hone your branding?   Sam: I think we didn't know that it would take this form at the very start. We knew that, like you know, instinctively this is the branding angle that we want to work with. But as we grew with time we know we were reacting to what's happening in the market right and how we need to kind of distinguish our brand and our product from other people and to make sure that, even though, like, they like the product but they need to have like some visual reference to kind of like make that association, to know that like, oh okay, this is now Kimatcha and I like now Kimatcha.   Bradley Sutton: You know what I'm going to check something. Hold on, let me see, I'm actually gonna run Cerebro on one of your products. I'm curious, you know you mentioned, hey, people are actually searching for Naoki Matcha. I'm just curious, like, what kind of brand recognition you have. So I'm just running Cerebro on here on our YouTube and podcast version. We'll speed this up. Let's see here, because I have a feeling, you know you've been selling for a while now and you're doing so well that there are literally people who just search for your brand name. So let's take a look at how many people are searching for your brand name here. Hold on, all right, here in Cerebro I'm gonna put phrases containing Naoki and let's apply that filter and wow, there's 45 different keywords that have Naoki in it and with thousands of search volume a month. So people like know your brand. You know just Naoki Matcha by itself has 1200 search volume and there's 45 other versions that people are actually searching for. So I mean that's kind of like what the goal is. When you're selling on Amazon, hey, sure you want people to buy you on the generic searches, like you know, Matcha Tea or Matcha Powder or something. But you know you've kind of made it when there's actually search volume for your brand.   Bradley Sutton: You guys are getting, you know, using expensive you know matcha directly from the source in Japan. You know I'm sure there maybe are some competitors going like a cheaper route. Or maybe you know, like I'm just looking here in the search for Matcha Tea and I even see you know listings that are like $9, you know $9.95. And you guys are at like $40, $39. I see some that are, well, that's a different product, but like $7, you know $15. How can you guys stay at around the top? Like I'm looking at the BSR, you're like one of the top three in the whole Matcha category. Like some people think, oh, I have to. You know, like if cheaper sources come on, I'm just going to have to try and price match and then you know race to the bottom and I like to tell people no, no, no, there's ways to still succeed even at a higher price point. What's your guys secret where you can stay at this $40 price point and still make a lot of sales despite these cheaper alternatives coming into the market?   Sam: Well, I think it's all about getting people to try it once. And once the person tries it once, right, and then they compare it to like the cheaper one that they bought before they realize, like you know, the difference is like night and day, right. So what we want to do is to make sure that they realize that they're getting like a good price for this level of quality, and once that kind of barrier is unlocked and then they realize that, hey, actually, if I pay $25 for one ounce, right, I'm getting a lot more value if I'm paying $40 for like 3.5 ounces, so the $40 one actually becomes like a good idea, even though, like it's like four times whatever is available on. You know the results when you search for matcha.   Singchuen: Just to add on to that, the cheaper matcha products are by nature of how it's grown and how it's produced. It tastes incredibly different from how matcha products of a certain price level are like because of how much more expensive it is to produce. So matcha is actually in quite a bit of a supply crunch and so there is actually not that much matcha supply to go around at the higher quality price range. In that sense, because it's so expensive, it's not possible to match the quality level if you're to go below the price. So the market kind of like segmented itself in a way. So we, as Sam has just mentioned just now, as long as we are sort of value for the price that we are offering, it's good enough for us and that's how we managed to stay above the competition. If you notice that there are other competitors that are also doing well with high BSR and they are similarly high priced. But once you do the math you realize that in addition to our better tasting product our price per gram, if you want to put it that way it's still much better than our competitors.   Sam: It's pretty competitive still.   Bradley Sutton: What's the future hold? Now you actually have Naoki Matcha in the brand name. So if you just stay with this brand, you're kind of I don't want to say limited, but it's not like you can start selling something completely off the wall under this brand, like do you have are there still enough new kinds of variations and blends that you can come up with to keep this brand going? Or have you considered, like maybe we should start something completely different, like I start a new brand? Or what's your goal for growing the business?   Sam: Right. I think for this brand there's still some room for growth, because actually so far we haven't touched the whole products that deal with, like matcha accessories. We're just starting that this year and also there are different grades of matcha right. So honestly, we are really at like that middle to high kind of grade, but we haven't really touched the other grade so far. So those are kind of like the growth opportunities that are available to us, yeah, but of course, once we hit there's a ceiling for category, once we hit that, yeah, I think you do have to choose another brand.   Bradley Sutton: Obviously, Amazon USA is your main market. Are you selling on other Amazon marketplaces? If so, which? And then also other marketplaces at all, like Walmart, Shopify or other websites?   Singchuen: We are in the UK. We're selling the exact same brand in the UK as well. It's sort of like an offshoot. We started it because some fans who have tasted it in America have gone back to the UK and so they are wondering why aren't you in the UK? So we decided to launch it over there as well, and so far the growth is okay, but not as high as in America, obviously, and in Singapore. We are on e-commerce platforms as well, and I'm not too sure we can confidently say this, but we are in the top few brands on those platforms selling decently well too.   Bradley Sutton: You know, talk about some specific strategies that you guys think have helped you get to where you are, because it's not just like I mean somebody could spend 10 years and develop like the most perfect, pure form of matcha known to mankind in history and it's meaningless, you know, without the strategy that is going to get it in front of people. So what are some of the things that set you apart from maybe the 10 other matcha people who maybe have started and gone out of business, you know, because they didn't have your strategy? What do you think set you apart from others?   Sam: Well, I think a handful of things. The first one is okay, so I think you can use. You can rely on Amazon PPC. You can look at your search term impression share reports. You can look at your keyword ranking and all that kind of stuff and that will help you in the short run. But honestly, the thing that really helped us the most was patience and making sure that your product is on a sensory level it's actually good and people like it. Once you have those two things covered, then you know you just need to get people to try to get them to tell their friends, and then, like people, their friends who are interested in matcha will buy, and then they are buying again and then this whole thing kind of grows by itself. Your PPC and all of these other tools that you have are really just like fuel that you add to this engine   Singchuen: And on the other side of things is obviously you kind of need to make sure that you treat your supplier well as well. Make sure that they understand what you're going through and make sure that you try to understand what they're going through. If language is a barrier, hire an interpreter, right, it's not too difficult. Decency goes both ways. So you may be pressed, but you got to recognize that the factories themselves, they, are pressed as well. So working together for compromise, understanding each other and not drawing too much, just to be a little bit more understanding towards each other, goes a long way. I think what tends to happen is that if you're not patient, as Sam has mentioned, you may cut off communications with factories that may help you in the future, and you don't want to do that.   Bradley Sutton: Now I'm looking, speaking of PPC, I'm looking at just what I see on Amazon and I see everything. I see sponsored product ASIN targeting campaigns right here on this one page I see you're targeting your own ASIN and sponsored display ad. I see sponsored brand ads in the search for Matcha tea. I saw sponsored brand video, regular sponsored products. So you guys are just like going all out with all the different kinds of PPC that Amazon provides. Any one of those, like you think, has performed better for you or gives you the best ROI, or is it kind of just kind of even across the board?   Sam: Well, I think at the start sponsored products perform very well, but as you get more and more ad types and different you know SV, SD, SP you mix that in. You have some DSP thrown in. The attribution for which ad actually did the sale for you gets a bit more tricky.   Bradley Sutton: That's true. That's true, yeah, because you know. But the good thing about that is you're just your top of mind because you're advertising everywhere you can. You know, like sure, maybe you don't know exactly what got the attribution, but the point is you have such a big share of voice you know, potentially, maybe compared to your competitors, that you're your top of mind for your, for your customers. Okay, so PPC is important for what's on Amazon. I'm sure you use Amazon data points as well. What about Helium 10? What's your favorite tool in Helium 10 and how has it helped you?   Sam: I think, honestly, the keyword coverage and Cerebro is still like my favorite tool. I've been using it since like 2017, when it first launched.   Singchuen: As you use, you search on Amazon and you search on other platforms take a look at how Helium 10's are like compared to others. You always use that. There's a certain sense that Helium 10's information is letting you after it. It's more of a sense. I can't really explain it, and then that really goes a long way, I think.   Bradley Sutton: Now for either of you. If there was something on your wish list for Helium 10, like, like something, maybe we don't do right now, you're like, wow, it would be so cool if Helium 10 could do this. Here's your chance to tell me what is on the matcha bros top wish list, for what Helium 10 can help now give matcha with?   Sam: Right. So I think my number one wish list would be cohort analytics. So if, for example, I can see in January how many new customers are acquired and how much, and how much of that repeat over the next 12, 24, 36 months, that would be awesome. I don't think there's none of the big analytics platforms do this. There are some specialized ones that do it that we subscribe to, but they're expensive and I'm pretty sure that you guys can do a better job.   Bradley Sutton: Awesome, awesome. Now my last question is just, you know, you guys have reached this level of success, selling millions of dollars. Obviously you two are working together. How many people total does it take to run the Naoki Matcha machine? You know like, are you guys doing 100% of the work? Do you have virtual assistants? Do you have, you know, in Singapore staff? How many people does it take to run your business?   Singchuen: Right now we are actually quite an entity, Sam, as I'm sure you can tell from this conversation. Sam does most of the marketing and I do more of the supply side operations kind of activities. So in total we have about five people running the entire business.   Bradley Sutton: Well, this has been very enlightening. I've you know, despite knowing about you guys, almost 95% of this I think was completely new information to me and obviously new to our audience. It's great to see this success story. I love matcha, so I'm going to have to purchase your, your product, and make some. I'll be your influencer. Make some matcha, some kind of matcha. Let's see I'm going to. I wanted to make a matcha flan flan like a. I don't know if you guys know what that is. That's like a Mexican dish. So that's, I'm going to make something and then it's going to go viral on TikTok and make you guys another few million dollars just for me.   Singchuen: Thank you for your support.   Bradley Sutton: You could take me out to dinner   Sam: Yeah. Thank you and looking forward to that.   Bradley Sutton: Thank you so much for coming on, and let's have you guys back on the podcast in 2025 and let's see how you guys have grown at that time.  

Some BSE Magic on the podcast today as Mo, Sam and Dora take three calls from the Philippines with some real variety in them.  It's a very interesting program that is guaranteed to get your mind moving.  Join the trio and they kick off the weekend the only the podcast knows how -- with a lot of Good Times! Caller #1 is Katie who is 28yrs old from Manila.  Katie and her boyfriend broke up years ago but they remain best friend -- but the friendship extends to sex, even though he has a new girlfriend. Caller #2 is Raven who is 34yrs old from Cebu.  Raven is with the LDS denomination and he wants to know if love can be found, the kind of wife that has traditional values in these modern times.  This is also a very very interesting call that shouldn't be missed! Caller #3 is Carlo who is 30yrs old from Cebu.  Carlo has spend a lot of time in his lolo's enormously successful business.  The family culture is so toxic though and he think he needs to forgive his family or the animosity will eat away at him. Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

In this episode, we chat with Sam Oh about his upbringing in Los Angeles by Korean Christian immigrants; the gay allegory that is Hannah Montana; skincare; comedy; and how it's ok for underrepresented communities to be ugly and unlikable! .... Sam Oh is a writer and comedian from Los Angeles (well technically The Valley which like, totally counts!) An alum of the WarnerMedia Access Writers Program and NBC's Late Night Writers Workshop, he most recently worked on the reboot of Frasier for Paramount+. As a queer child of Korean Christian immigrants, Oh had no choice but to develop a sense of humor. He got his start as a teenager doing open-mics all over LA and taking sketch and improv at UCB, later writing on Maude Night. His scripts have placed in numerous industry competitions, including the Top 50 of the Academy Nicholl Fellowship. He's performed at SF Sketchfest, Union Hall NY, The Elysian Theater and currently hosts the musical comedy revue, “Adler & Oh.” Oh performs comedic music as his hyper-sexual pop star alter ego, GAY VIRGIN. For updates on his upcoming debut EP, follow @gayvirginofficial and @gayvirgin666!

It's our first BSE for 2024 as the trio gets together after a few months off, but they are bringing good news!  A return to radio for Sam Oh and maybe even Dora!  Yes BSE will be back on Magic 89.9 as well in the coming weeks.  But first, podcast time and we a have good one.  Caller #1 is Mile who is 32yrs old from Singapore.  Mile met an amazing hot guy but the problem is they are both bottoms!  Can they co-exist or if the incompatibility a deal breaker? Caller #2 is Abbie who is 45yrs old from QC.  Abbie met a Canadian guy online and they started something romantic.  After he said he can't make it to the Philippines, they lost contact until he messaged her saying he was in Boracay.  She reconnected with him but the problem is he went on Facebook and talked shit about the Philippines and Abbie got offended. Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Hello hello! Today I've got for you another between-season bonus episode. This time we're breaking format to talk about i know the end, a module I published earlier this year about going back home after a long time away and all the horrors that entails. Because if you can't occasionally publish something self-indulgent in your podcast feed, what's even the point of having one?My cohost for this is my friend Nico MacDougall, the current organizer of The Awards, who edited i know the end and had almost as much to say about it as I did.For maximum understanding of this episode, you can pick up a free copy of the module here and follow along (or skim it in advance).Further reading:The original i know the end cover artThe “oops all PBTA moves” version of i know the endThree of my short filmsMy previous written designer commentaries on Space Train Space Heist and CouriersJohn Harper talking with Andrew Gillis about the origins of Blades in the DarkThe official designer commentary podcasts for Spire and HeartAaron Lim's An Altogether Different River, which comes with a designer commentary versionCamera Lucida by Roland Barthes, a photography theory book that we talked about during recording but which I later cut because I remembered most of the details about it incorrectlyWhat Is Risograph Printing, another topic cut from the final recording because I got basically everything about it wrong while recording (the background texture of the module is a risograph printed texture)Before Sunrise by Richard LinklaterQuestionable Content by Jeph JacquesSocials:Nico's carrd page, which includes links to their socials, editing rates, and The Awards.Sam on Bluesky, Twitter, dice.camp, and itch.The Dice Exploder logo was designed by sporgory, and our theme song is Sunset Bridge by Purely Grey.Join the Dice Exploder Discord to talk about the show!Transcript:Sam: Hello and welcome to Dice Exploder. Normally each week we take a tabletop RPG mechanic, bait our lines with it, and cast them out to see, to see what we can catch. But you hear that different intro music? That means this episode I'm doing something much more self indulgent, a designer commentary on a module I released earlier this year called I Know the End.And just a heads up here at the top, to get the most out of this, you probably want to have at least read through the module in question before, or as, you're listening. I threw a bunch of free copies up on itch for exactly this purpose, so feel free to go run and grab one. I'll wait.Anyway, I love designer commentaries. You can find a few of my old written ones, as well as links to a few of my favorites from other people, in the show notes. But I wanted to try releasing one as a podcast, because one, that sounds fun, and two, what's the point of having a podcast feed if you can't be ridiculously self indulgent in it on occasion?And I picked I Know The End to talk about because it is... weird. I don't know. It's weird. I describe it on itch as a short scenario about returning home and all the horrors that entails. But you'll hear us take issue with, I don't know, maybe every word in that sentence over the course of this commentary. It was a strange experience to make this thing, and I figured that might be interesting to hear about.It was also the first time I ever worked with an editor Nico MacDougall my friend and the organizer behind The Awards since 2023. Nico was excellent to work with and you can find their rates and such in the show notes and they are with me today to talk through this thing in excruciating detail as you probably noticed from the runtime we had a lot to say. Definitely contracted two guys on a podcast disease. Anyway, I hope you enjoy this. But regardless, I'd love to hear what you think of it. Should I do more? Never again? Want to organize the Dice Exploder Game Jam we mused about doing at the end of this? Hit me up! I'd love to hear from you. And now, here is myself, I guess, and Nico MacDougall, with a full designer's commentary on I Know The End.Nico: Well, Sam, thanks for being here on your podcast to discuss your... adventure.Sam: You're welcome.Nico: Yes.Sam: for having me.Nico: Very first question is adventure: is that really, like, the right term for this?Sam: Are we really starting here? Like, I, I don't know. I, I feel like I got, I really went into this thing with true intentions to write a proper module, you know? Like I was thinking about OSR style play for like the first time in my life, and like, we were both coming out of the awards 2022 judging, and a lot of the submissions for 2022 the Awards were modules. I thought that was great but it really was sort of like opening the floodgates of this style of play that I knew basically nothing about. And, at the same time that we were reading through all 200 submissions for the awards, I was also reading Marcia B's list of 100 OSR blog posts of some influence.And so I was really drinking from the fire hose of this style of play, and also, I wasn't playing any of it. Like, I was experimenting with Trophy Gold a little bit, which is this story game that is designed to try to play OSR modules and dungeons as, like, a story game kind of experience. And I was kind of figuring out how it works and like how I wanted to run it and how to make it go And Joe DeSimone, who was running the awards at the time was just encouraging everyone to make weirder shit and like, that was his ethos and those were the people that he got to submit to the awards. Like, it was just the weirdest stuff that I had ever read in the RPG space and... That's probably a lie. There's some weird stuff out there.It was just like so much weird stuff. It was like stuff on the bleeding edge of a whole side of the hobby that I didn't participate in in the first place. My intro to this part of the hobby was the bleeding edge of it. And I was like, alright, I, I just wanna make something there, I wanna try playing around there and see what happens.And Joe tweeted out the tweet was like, Now we're all making modules based on songs that make us cry. And I was listening to the Phoebe Bridgers album Punisher on loop at the time to inspire a screenplay I was working on. And the last track is called I Know the End, and just ends with this, primal scream.And it was, it was a hard fall for me, at the time. And the primal scream felt really cathartic. And I was spending a lot of time in the, small town where I grew up. And, this horror monster idea of a town that is, itself, an entity and like is a whole monster, and like, what does that mean exactly? I don't know, but intuitively, I like, understand it, and we're just gonna kind of drive... towards my intuitive understanding of what this thing is supposed to be. I just decided to do that and see what happened. And did that give us an adventure in the end? I don't know. Did that give us a 32 page long bestiary entry in the form of a module? Like, that sounds closer to right to me, but also, taxonomies are a lie and foolish anyways.I don't know, I made a weird thing, here it is. Nico: Yeah. So I was scrolling back in our, in our conversation to where you first shared this with me, and I... I would like to share with the audience the text that accompanied it. It was the Google Doc, and then it said, This might be completely unplayable, it might actually be a short story, or, like, a movie, but I'm gonna publish it anyway, and, you know... If that isn't exactly it, like...Sam: Yeah I like that stuff. I don't know, another thing I've been thinking about a lot this fall is writing by stream of consciousness. Like, I realized that I don't have a lot of confidence in any of my work that I feel like I created quickly. Like, the RPG thing I'm most well known for, I think, is Doskvol Breathes, which I just pumped out in an afternoon. It was just a thought that I had on a whim about how you might play blades in the dark maybe. And I finished it and then I released it and people were like, this is amazing. And I still get complimented on it all the time. I'm still really proud of it, but it, I don't have any confidence in it because it came so quickly.And, like, I know that this is something I need to, like, talk about in therapy, you know, about, like, It's not real art unless I worked on it for six months straight, like, really worked my ass off. But this process, I sort of looked back over my career as a screenwriter, as a short filmmaker, as a game designer, and started realizing just how many of my favorite things that I've made came from exactly that process of the whole idea kind of coming together all at once in like one sitting. And even if it then took like a bunch of months of like refining like it's wild to me How much of my favorite work was created by following my intuition, and then just leaving it be afterwards.Nico: Yeah, I actually did want to ask about the similarity between your, like, process for TTRPG design versus screenwriting, cause... While I have read, you know, edited this, but also, like, read your your game design work and know relatively well your thoughts on, like, you know, just game design sort of theory and stuff in general, I have never read any, like, screenwriting stuff that you've done. Although, lord knows I hope to see it someday. Sam: Well, listen, if anyone listening to this wants to read my screenplays, I'm on Discord. You can find me and I'll happily share them all. My old short films are largely available on the internet, too. You know, maybe I'll link a couple in the show notes.Nico: oh yeah,Sam: But I I think of my process for screenwriting as really, really structural.Like, I, I'm a person who really came out of needing a plot and needing to know what happens in a story, and to really especially need to know the ending of a story so I know kind of what I'm going towards as I'm writing the thing. I outline like really extensively before I write feature or a pilot, like there's so much planning you have to do, I think it is really, really hard to write any kind of screenplay and not have to revise it over and over and over again, or at least like plan really carefully ahead of time and like really think about all the details, revise a lot, run it by a lot of people for feedback over and over. But especially for me that, that having an ending, like a target in mind when I'm writing is so important. I just don't know how to do it without that.Except occasionally when I get some sort of idea like this one where I have a feeling of vibe and I just start writing that thing and then eventually it's done. And I, I've never had that happen for a feature film screenplay or like a TV pilot kind of screenplay.But I have had a couple of short films come together that way where I don't know what the thing is, I just know what I am writing right now, and then it's done, and then I go make it. And I I don't know why that happens sometimes. Nico: Yeah, I mean I would imagine length plays a factor in it, right? Like a short film, or, I mean, gosh, how many pages did I know the end, end, end up being? Sam: 36. Nico: But I find that really fascinating that, too, that you say that when you're screenwriting, you have to have it really structural, really outlined, an end specifically in mind, when, to me, that almost feels like, well, not the outlining part, but having an end in mind feels almost antithetical to even the idea of, like, game design, or, I guess, TTRPG design, right?Even the most sort of relatively pre structured, Eat the Reich, Yazeeba's Bed and Breakfast, like, Lady Blackbird games, where the characters are pretty well defined before any human player starts interacting with them, you can never know how it's going to end. And it's kind of almost against the idea of the game or the, the sort of art form as a whole to really know that.Even games that are play to lose, like, there are many games now where it's like, you will die at the end. And it's like, okay, but like, that's not really the actual end. Like, sure, it's technically the end, but it's like, we have no idea what's gonna be the moment right before that, or the moment before that. As opposed to screenwriting Sam: yeah, it's a, it's a really different medium. I still think my need to have a target in mind is something that is really true about my game design process too.Like the other game that I'm well known for, well known for being relative here, but is Space Train Space Heist, where I was like, I have a very clear goal, I want to run a Blades in the Dark as a one shot at Games on Demand in a two hour slot. And Blades in the Dark is not a game that is built to do that well, so I want to make a game that is built to do that well, but like, captures everything about the one shot Blades in the Dark experience that I think is good and fun .And that may not be a sort of thematic statement kind of ending, like that's what I'm kind of looking for when I'm writing a screenplay, but that is a clear goal for a design of a game.Nico: Yeah. even In the context of I know the end, and to start talking a little bit about my role in this as well, as, as the editor, I think the point of view, the vibe, the, like, desired sort of aesthetic end point Was very clear from the start, from the jump. And I think that in many ways sort of substitutes for knowing the end of the story in your screenwriting process.So that really helped when I was editing it by focusing on like, okay, here's the pitch. How can I help sort of whittle it down or enhance it or change stuff in order to help realize that goal.And sometimes it kind of surprises me even, like, how much my games shift and change as they reach that goal. Like, sometimes you can, like, look back at old versions of it, and you're like, wow, so little of this is still present. But, like, you can see the throughline, very sort of Ship of Theseus, right? Like, you're like, wow, everything has been replaced, and yet, it's, like, still the thing that I wanted to end up at.Sam: Yeah, another thing that is, I think, more true of my screenwriting process than my game design process is how very common that in the middle of the process I will have to step back and take stock of what was I trying to do again? Like, what was my original goal? I've gotten all these notes from a lot of different people and, like, I've done a lot of work and I've found stuff that I like.And what was I trying to do? Like, I have, all this material on the table now, I have, like, clay on the wheel, and, like, I just gotta step back and take a break and refocus on, like, what are we trying to do. I Think it's really important to be able to do that in any creative process.To Tie together a couple of threads that we've talked about here, talked at the beginning of this about how much this felt like a stream of consciousness project for me, that I really just like, dumped this out and then like, let it rip.But also, I mean, this was my first time working with an editor, and I think you did a lot of work on this to make it way better, like really polish it up and make those edges the kind of pointy that they wanted to be, that this game really called for. And that makes this, in some ways, both a really unstructured process for me, and then a really structured process, and... I don't know what to make of that. I think there's something cool about having both of those components involved in a process. Nico: Yeah, it is. I I very much agree that like, yeah, most of my sort of design stuff have, has proceeded very much the same way of just kind of like sporadically working on it, changing stuff, like revamping it, whatever. And it's like, it's sort of, yeah, in a constant state of fluxx up until the moment where I'm like, okay, I guess it's done now.What I was gonna say, I was gonna jump back just a point or two which is you mentioned Clayton Notestein's Explorer's Design Jam. And I was curious, like, what was your experience, like, using that design template? Sam: Yeah I really enjoyed it, I really had a good time with it. I had already gotten really comfortable with InDesign just teaching myself during lockdown. Like, that's what I did for 2020, was I, like, laid out a bunch of games myself and they all looked like shit, but they all taught me how to use InDesign as a program.And I think templates are really, really valuable. Like it's so much easier to reconfigure the guts of another template than it is to create something from scratch.And I like Clayton's template. I think it's nice and clean. I think you can see in all the publications that have come out using Clayton's template, how recognizable it is. How little most people stray from the bones of it, and on the one hand, I think it's amazing that you can just use the template and go really quickly and like, get something out.And also I just want to push on it a little bit more. I want something, like the template is designed to be a template. It is not a suit tailored to whatever your particular project is. But also, I think if I had tried to lay this out without a template, it would look substantially worse, and there are a few notable breaks here and there that I, you know, I enjoyed experimenting with. I like the use of the comments column for little artwork. I think that was a nice little innovation that I added.And, you know, I didn't write this originally to have that sort of commentary column as a part of it. Like, all of the text was just in the main body of it. And I like the way it turned out to have that sort of, like, director's commentary thing hanging out in the wings. lot of people have talked about how much they like that in Clayton's template. so I, I don't know, like I, think that on the one hand a template really opens up a lot of possibilities for a lot of people and really opened up a lot of possibilities for me, and on the other hand I do still look at it and I see the template And I'm like, I hope this doesn't look too much like every other person whoNico: Right, right. I mean, that is definitely the difficulty of providing those kinds of tools, because like, it makes it very easy to make things especially if you're sort of just getting started, or if you don't have a lot of confidence or familiarity with it inDesign or anything like that. But ultimately, I feel like Clayton himself would say that the Explorer's Design Template is not intended to be, like, the final template, right? It's intended to be, like, a tool that you can use to varying effects, right?Yeah, I was thinking about it when I was going through this earlier, and I was like, Oh, yeah, like, you only use the comments, column a few times, and then I literally only realized maybe five minutes before you said it, I was like, oh, wait, all the little artwork is also in that little column thing, like you just said, and I was like, oh, that's like, that's actually a really cool way to use the template, because that space is already provided if you include that column, but just because you have the column that's, you know, quote unquote, intended for commentary, doesn't mean you have to use it for commentary, doesn't mean you have to put text in there.Sam: Yeah, you definitely like learn a lot of stuff about the guts of the thing as you start playing with it.Nico: Yeah. is probably getting on the level of, like, pretty pointless, sort of what ifs, but I'm curious... If Clayton hadn't done the Explorer's Design Template Jam, or if you had, for whatever reason, like, not been inspired to use that as the impetus to, like, make this and get it edited and laid out and published or whatever, like, Do you think you still would have tried to use that template, or would you have just tried to lay it out yourself, like you've done in the past?Sam: Honestly, I think without the jam this wouldn't exist. I have like a long to do list of things at any given time, like creative projects I wanna on, youNico: Oh, yeah,Sam: know? And the thing that brought this to the top of that to do list was just wanting to have something to submit into that jam. You know, I wanted to work with you as an editor. I Always want to clear something off the to do list. I always want to have some kind of creative project. And, I wanted to submit something to that jam, but I think if you took any one of those away, I might not have put the thing out at all. Nico: Yeah, that's really interesting. But I guess that's also, again, kind of what a good template or layout or just tool in general can help is actually get these things made. Sam: That's what a good jam can do, too, right? I mean, there's a reason the Golden Cobra contest is something that I love. It's like 40 new LARPs every year and they only exist because the Golden Cobra is throwing down the gauntlet.Nico: That's very true. Well, maybe it's time to move along to more practical concerns Sam: Maybe it's time to do the actual commentary part of this episodeWe've done the waxing philosophical part, butNico: we, yeah, checked off that Dice Exploder box. Now it's time to do the actual game talk.Sam: your bingo cards Nico: Yeah, Sam: Yeah, so let's start with the cover.Nico: Yes, the cover, which I only realized it was a teeth, that it was a mouth with teeth open when you said in the outline, ah yes, it's a mouth with teeth. And I looked at it and I was like... Oh my god, it is. Like,Sam: I did my job so well. I wanted it to be subtle, but I always like looked at it and was like it's so obviously teeth, I'm never gonna get this subtle enough. But I'm I'm glad to hear that I succeeded.Nico: I truly don't know what I thought it was before, but it definitely wasn't teeth.Sam: Yeah. Well, it started as I'll share this in the show notes. It started as this image. It was like a 6x9 layout, and, the teeth were still there, and it was like, all black, and the teeth were this much wider, gaping maw, like, inhuman, unhinged jaw kind of situation. And then, in the middle of it, was a, like, live laugh love kind of Airbnb sign with I Know The End on it. It was like the mouth, like, eating the sign.And I liked that. I felt like, the problem with that was that... As much as creepy, live, laugh, love sign is kind of the like, vibe of this, I didn't really want to bring in the like, kitsch of that at all, like, I felt like that kitschiness would hang over the whole thing if I made it the cover, and I mean, this whole thing is just about my own personal emotional repression, right? And my feelings about my small town that I'm from, andabout like, my ambition, and, exactly, yeah.But I, I write a lot, and I make a lot of art about emotional repression , and I think the particular vibe of this game's repression doesn't have space for irony, or satire, or like, Do you wanna live, laugh, love? Like, I don't know how else to put it. Like, it just felt really wrong.It was like, if you put that into the space at all, it's gonna curdle the whole feeling. Nico: it's about the framing of it. I, know that Spencer Campbell of Gila RPGs has written something about this on his blog. I don't remember specifically what the context is, but he's a psychologist by training and is talking about how, like, the way that you frame something matters a lot to how people respond to it, right?So you like, if you're framing it as like, oh, you have, twelve things and I take away six from you, versus like, oh, you have nothing and then you are given six things. It's like, both scenarios, you like, end up with six but Sam: One feels like a letdown and one feels great. Yeah,Nico: yeah, and so I think in his article he was talking about in the, yeah, you know, tying that into the game design context, obviously.And I think it matches here where like, sort of runs the risk of like, priming people to expect kitsch, and I don't think that that's really present in the rest of the game. And that kind of mismatched expectations could really, like, lead to some problems when people are trying to, like, play the game.Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I mean this cover is just kind of like, oh. Like, it doesn't it doesn't really tell you much other than just like there's something back there that's maybe vaguely menacing, and that's kind of it. That's kind of Nico: Yeah.Sam: Alright, speaking of which can we, can we talk about my favorite interaction between the two of us as we were working on this?Nico: Oh, yeah, I was not sure how to bring that up. yes, please do. Now that we're moving on to... For everyone following along at home, we are proceeding to the credits page.Sam: The comment I got from you while you were editing this was, IDK if it would look different in print, but having the text so close to the edge of the page is activating my fight or flight response. And I just replied, working as intended.Nico: It yeah, I had the feeling, I think, even when I sent that, I was like, this, this is not like an accident. Like, like, like no one makes this like no one does this by accident. But, yes, truly, I hope that you are following along at home because I believe that Sam generously gave a whole bunch of community copies of this game, or made them available. Sam: I believe it was 42, 069 I'm usually doing some number like that. This game, I might have done a different number, but that's, the other games that I've done.Nico: So, but the text on this, for credits page specifically, it's truly, like, at the edge of the page. Like, it looks like it could be cut off. It's like, in print, it would be like, cut off by the process of actually like, making it. In fact, feels like if you try to send it to a printer, they could almost send it back and be like, you've gotta give us some space there. Like, you simply can't do that. There needs to be a gutter, or bleed, or whatever the term is. Like, Sam: I love it. maybe one day I will print this. Honestly, like if I become a super famous game designer or something, like, this is one of the ones that I Nico: screen, slash screenwriter.Sam: yeah, yeah. This is one of the ones I'd like to go back and hold in my hand, but I also I don't know, I just love it. I, I love designing for digital as, like, a primary thing, because I just feel like most people who play the thing are gonna play it out of digital.And I don't know if that's, like, the primary audience for a lot of modules. Like, I think there are a ton of people out there who just, like, buy the zine and hold the zine in their hand and probably never get around to playing it. But I, I love the digital. I've always loved the digital. I don't know, I just like making for it.Nico: Well I mean I was even thinking about it in the context of like, you know, how you talked about how you changed the aspect ratio, I was like thinking about that and I was like, I mean, it's not like that would be impossible to print, but like, most standard commercial printers operate in like, one of the more standard like, page sizes. Even the risograph you said is what it's called, right?Sam: The, the RISO. Yeah, I don't know if it's Rizzo or RISO, but I'm gonna sayNico: The RISO background also makes the, again, just from like a fully practical point of view, it's like you're adding color to the whole thing,Like there are many potential barriers to this as like a physical product that would, that are simply not there when you're designing for digital, so like, it is nice to have that sort of freedom, like, when you're thinking about how to lay this out or, or put stuff on here, it's like, you're freed from a lot of those practical considerations.Sam: There's a few other details I want to talk about on this page just kind of like references I'm making that are not obvious.So the first is that the header font and title font of I Know The End is a font that I ripped from Lilancholy, which is this amazing book by Snow, which is ostensibly a game, but but also a reflection on childhood and personal relationship to emotions and trauma.And I love the look of the font, but I also intentionally wanted to reference that game while I was making something that felt really personal in a similar vein. And another another reference here is that the color of the whole game, like this red, is pulled from the cover art for the Phoebe Bridgers album Punisher that I know the end is off of. I, I just found the, like, most saturated red pixel that I could on the album and was like, that's the color! I love hiding little references in every little detail that I can. Nico: Yeah, it's so interesting because I did not know any of that, you know, prior to this conversation or seeing that stuff on the outline. What did you sort of hope to achieve with those references, right? Because I can't imagine that you're plan was like, for someone to look at it and be like, oh my god, that's the Lilancholy font, and that's the Phoebe Bridgers album Sam: that's one pixel from that album cover.Yeah.What am I trying to achieve? I don't know, like there's, so the Paul Thomas Anderson movie Phantom Thread Is an amazing movie, and it's about Daniel Day Lewis being incredibly serious, scary Daniel Day Lewis, making dresses, being a tailor, and an element of the movie is that he hides his initials inside the dresses, like, when he's making them, he, like, sews his initials in.And that's a real thing that, that people did, and maybe it's just for him. It's also kind of an arrogant thing to do, you know, that all these, like, women are gonna be walking around wearing these dresses with, like, his initials kind of, like, carved, it's like this power thing. But my favorite part of it is that Phantom Thread is PT, also known as Paul Thomas Anderson.Nico: Ha Sam: And, like, like, I, I just feel like when you're doing that kind of thing, it's just, what an act, it's just so beautiful and arrogant and satisfying. Like I think doing that kind of little reference and joke for myself brings me into the mindset of what I am trying to convey with the game.Like, if I'm thinking in the detail of the font selection, what do I want to reference? What do I want to bring to this game? Then, I'm gonna be I'm gonna be thinking about that in every other choice I'm making for the game, too. And even if half of those choices end up being just for me, I will have been in the headspace to make the other half that are for everyone else, too.Nico: Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. like, You could almost even call these, like, Easter eggs, right?But it also made me think about, I had to look this up actually as you were talking, because I was like, about that, the CalArts classroom number that like all of the animators that studied there fit into like Pixar movies and stuff, like, A113, A113. And I think that's also sort of a good example of it in some ways, because it's like now, with the advent of the internet, and you know, and a certain way of engaging with media, like, everyone knows what that, what that means now, or they could if they just looked it up, or they just see some BuzzFeed, you know, article that's like, you know, 50 easter eggs that you missed in the latest Pixar movie.But yeah, it's like, it's very interesting because it kind of asks who is the movie for? What's the intended or imagined audience for all of these things? And it sort of shows that, like, you can have multiple audiences or multiple levels of engagement with the same audience, like, at the same time. Maybe, I would say, it's very unlikely that any random person would just like, look at the cover of I Know The End and be like, oh, that's the Lilancholy font, but,Sam: I have had someone say that to me, though. Yeah.Nico: but, so, what I was just gonna say is like, but I don't think it's hard to imagine that like, the type of person who would, who would buy, who would be interested in I Know The End or Lilancholy, I think there's a pretty decent chance that they would be interested in the other if they're interested in one of them, right?And so it is interesting as well, where it's like, I am often surprised by like the ability of people to sort of interpret or decipher things that far outweighs my sort of expectations of their ability to do so.If only just because I have the arrogance to be like, well no one could ever have a mind like mine. Like, no one could ever think in the specific bizarre way that I do. Then it's like actually a surprising number of people think in a very similar way. Sam: Another thing I think about with making these really, really tiny references, easter eggs, it's the, not making a decision is making a decision, right? CentrismNico: Oh,Sam: Like, if you have literally anything that you have not made a choice about with intention, that is a missed opportunity, I think.And... I have so much respect for people who will just pump something out, like, write a page of a game and, like, upload as a DocX to itch. Like, Aaron King is a genius, and I know a lot of games that are put out that way, and I love that stuff. But for me, like, the kind of art creation process that I enjoy and like doing is so based on finding meaning in every crevice, finding a way to express yourself in every detail. just love doing it.Nico: you are the English teacher that the, the curtains are blue meme is referencing, in fact.Sam: Yes.Nico: The curtains are blue in I Know The End because,Sam: Well, and I know the end they are red, but Nico: yes.Imagine that being the new version of the meme: the curtains in this are red because there's a Phoebe Bridgers album that has a single pixel that is that color.Sam: Yeah, I don't know. It's true, though.Nico: Exactly. it is in fact true. But so would, in some ways, any other interpretation of...Sam: Yeah.Nico: of the red color, right? It's like you picked it because of the association with the album cover. Someone else could be like, Oh, it means this otherthing. And like that interpretation is correct. Sam: Yeah, I mean, I also picked it because of its association with blood, you know, like I, I wanted to kind of evoke that feeling too, so.Shall we do the table of contents? HehNico: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think the most interesting thing to talk about, and I want to know when this entered the sort of the design process, is the blacked out Table of Contents entry which corresponds to an almost entirely blacked out, or in this case, redded out,Sam: Yeah, Nico: messily redacted,part of, the book,Sam: Yeah, I think this was always there, I think I started writing a list of locations very early on, and on that list of locations was, like, I work in Google Docs to begin with for most of my stuff, and it was a bullet pointed numbered list, and the last list item was struck through, and it was your mom's house.And I just thought that was a funny little joke. It's like really dark? Another, just like a little detail, I have such a great relationship with my parents. Like really just a better relationship with my parents than anyone I know. And, so much of my art ends up with these like, really bad, fucked up relationships with parents, and I don't know what that's about.But, there's, there's something about, there's a piece of your hometown that is like so traumatic that you can't bring yourself to look at it. There's a piece of yourself, or your childhood, or like, where you came up, there's something from your origin story that you can't bear to face is a lot of what this is about. And even as the climax of this thing is I think in a lot of ways turning to face everything that you left behind.I mean the whole module is about that but I think fact that even when you are doing that, there's one piece of it that you can't bear to look at is really tragic and a mood to me. You know, it really felt right. Nico: it's sort of like, yeah, I'm finally gonna stand my ground and face my fear, or whatever, except for that thing. That thing, that part over there, for whatever reason, because I'm actually just very afraid of it. It really, as always, is sort of like the exceptions to the rule make the rule, or emphasize the rule. You're kind of carving out the negative space around it. And it makes it clearer in so. so Well, Yeah, so like, then the first thing of the game text itself, so to speak, is like the front and back of a postcard. And where's the picture from? It looks kind of old timey in a sort of non specific way.Sam: It's from Wikimedia Commons, I believe. I was looking for pictures of old postcards, and I wanted a small town, and, this is what I found.The postcard image is actually like a hell of a photo bash too. The stamp on it is from a real postcard I received from my cousin. The handwriting was me on just like a piece of paper that I scanned, and then the postcard is another like open source postcard image.Nico: Yeah. I am, once again, sort of showing, showing a lot of my bias here. I am often kind of against a lot of little, like, accessories, or sort of, like, physical things that are often part of crowdfunding, like, stretch goals, you know, like, it's, I don't know. I don't think it's, like, ontologically evil or anything like that, it's just, I understand, it's part of the reality of crowdfunding, and, like, attracting attention, and yada yada yada, I just personally don't love that reality. Which, of course, is easy to criticize when you're not part of a project is trying to do that, but that aside, I think it would actually genuinely be very cool to have, like, this postcard as, like, a physical object like, if the game were to be printed.Sam: You gonna make me like, handwrite every one of the postcards too? Cause that isNico: I did not say that. Oh, is that really? Well, but then, then you have it already, you can just print it off, like, or you make that the, like, I don't know, the hundred dollar stretch goal, you know, they back it at that level and then the postcard just appears inside their mailbox. Like,Sam: That wa that is creepy. I will tell you that,Nico: You say that as though it's happened to you before. You're like, well, let meSam: well, I'm not, I, I revealing nothing. How autobiographical is this? Nico: Yeah. so I guess, yeah, so getting, So this is the introduction page, the background, the introduction, giving the context to what this module, extended bestiary, what have you, what it is. My question here from a sort of meta perspective is like, how much are you trying to sort of give away at the start of this? How do you pitch this to , like to someone you know?Sam: that's a great question. I'm pretty proud of the execution here. I think I do a good job of, like, leaving some juicy hints here as to what might be going on without giving anything away. Like, the fact that I advertise this as maybe closer to a bestiary entry than a module, like, uh, what? Like, like you, you have an idea of what that means, but also like, where's the monster, what is the thing that I'm looking like, that is kind of planted in your mind in a way that I think is intriguing and sets expectations without giving the whole thing away.And, also, this is just me, like, trying to figure out how to describe this thing in real time as I'm writing. It really came from intuition. Nico: yeah. I know that, you know you're on, very much on record talking about how, you know, like, taxonomy is fake and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Sam: As much as I love it.Nico: right, right, exactly, I mean, I feel the same way, but I, I am curious as to like if you were trying to sell someone on the idea of even just playing this game, like, how effective do you think it is of like communicating whatever this is, you know, like, is it effective to say it's kind of this, or it's not this, or maybe it's this, like, Sam: I think this is going to be really good at reaching the kind of person who will love this, and really bad at selling this to like a mass audience, you know? But luckily, I'm not trying to sell this to a mass audience. I'm like trying to make Joe Dissimone proud, you know? Like I'm trying to make like something as weird as fucking possible.and I think there's a kind of person who really appreciates that and this struggle to define what this is using existing terminology, I think is going to really appeal to the people who like this.Nico: yeah, I agree, I think it signposts well hey, you, there, like, look at this thing. Isn't that interesting. And if they're like, If they're like, no, that's confusing and I don't know what to do with it, and they go somewhere else, in some ways, it could be argued that that is like, working as intended, right, likeSam: I kind of find it interesting in the sidebar here to watch me sort of like struggle with how you're supposed to play this game, like what rule system are you supposed to use?I do think with some distance from this, the best way to experience this is as a solo game. Like to just read the thing but pause and journal about your character's experience as you sort of walk through it. I have started playing more solo games since I wrote this in preparation for a Season 3 episode of the show, and I think this would serve that experience really well.I considered even, like, rewriting this to be more of explicitly a solo experience, but I, ultimately was really happy leaving it in its sort of nebulous, provocative, what if, is this, what is this sort of state. Nico: Yeah. I would genuinely be interested to have like, the two of us play the game, like this game, like one running it, one as the player, because I don't necessarily disagree with what you said, might be better suited as a solo game, but I really do think that there is something that can be gained about, like being in a room with, like, one other person, or, you know, being on a call with one other person, or whatever and going through this,Sam: Yeah, yeah, I can feel the intensity of that as you describe it. And it sounds harrowing and... Amazing. I do, I do have this dream of like running a Mork Borg dungeon, like over the course of like three sessions, and then like taking one of the players who survives and being like, I've got another module that I think we should play with the same character. Nico: yeah. Anyways, you go home and you think you're safe, but actually, like, Sam: I do think that this as a response to OSR play is really an interesting way to try to play the game, like to Nico: just sort of experienceSam: Yeah, to try to take the kind of character that you would have coming out of that and the experience you would have coming out of that and then like get tossed into this, like that disorientation I think would serve this really well and would do something that I found I really like to do with the OSR kind of play of like finding ways to bring in more character stuff, to just have people to reflect on their person, rather than on the logistical problem solving.Nico: Mm hmm. Which, of course, in some ways also is like, I don't want to say direct contradiction, but like, moving perpendicular to a lot of the sort of OSR principles, rightSam: But yeah, I mean, fuck em. Nico: exactly, I mean, I'm not, saying that to discourage you from doing it, I'm just saying, like, I just think it's an interesting for those to come into sort of, conflict or, or whatever in, in that specific way.Sam: I mean, that's what the bleeding edge of something is all about, right? It's like, what are our principles? What if we throw them out? What does thatNico: Right, right. What if we smash things together that, like, should sort of repel each other like magnets? Like,Sam: Yeah.Nico: Let's move on to the town?Sam: Yeah. So this is the, like, GM spoiler page.Nico: Right.Sam: I don't know that I have a lot to say about this particular page. It's, it's the town. There are, like, two suggestions in the first chunk of this book that came from you that I think are really valuable to this. Like, the first is that the town is always capitalized throughout. Which I like sort of was doing, but you really emphasized, and I think was a great decision.And, the second is that there aren't any contractions in this book except for possessives. And, that was another suggestion that came from you, to have this sort of stilted, formal, slightly off kind of language of not having contractions, that I think serves it really well and is just really cool.Nico: Yeah, I have to give credit for that, to the Questionable Content webcomic, which is a webcomic that has been running forSam: God, is it still going?Nico: oh, it very much is still going, I, it updates Monday to Friday, and I, am reading, I am seated and reading,Sam: stopped reading that like a decade ago.Nico: It is officially 20 years old. It started in 2003.but so one of the characters in that she initially never uses contractions. It is always, it is, it is never, it's. Do not, not, don't, you know, is not, not, isn't and over time, as the character sort of gets more comfortable and starts to open up about her kind of mysterious past, and they'll deal with a lot of the sort of like, serious emotional turmoil that is present in the character, she like, starts to use contractions.And so, it's a specific device that is very weirdly ingrained in my head at this point, because I remember, like, realizing that when it was called out the first time, and then I will fess up and say I have re read the webcomic from the beginning several times. I have a lot of time on my hands sometimes. And it is always kind of a delight to go back to the beginning and see this character and to really notice that device because you know where she ends up and how much more comfortable she is and so to see that difference in the beginning makes it very effective on a reread in a way that is sort of present in the maybe subconscious the first time on the way through.Thank you. And I feel like it's similar here, not quite the same because I don't know if you would ever necessarily actively realize, like, oh, there are no sort of contractions here.Sam: and the town is never gonna stop being a entity of repression.Nico: Yeah, exactly. And so it's giving this like underlying anxiety kind of like,like, you're just like, Ooh, this is Sam: Yeah. It's like, what is going on? What's wrong with the language here?Nico: Yeah. And you might not even really be able to, articulate it because it's sort of hard to articulate the absence of somethingSam: And like, that's the feeling of the whole module. yeah, It's, it's just, it's a great decision. Nico: Yeah. And then of course, capitalizing town, you know, are you even really a game designer if you're not capitalizing some random words in Sam: yeah. gotta have one at least, come on.Sam: I will say I really enjoy the fact that I give no origin story for the town. I think that's also really powerful, of leaving a hole that people can fill in if they want.The mom repression stuff is kinda like that too, the like, the blacking out sharpie. Of like, that's a hole you could fill in in play if you wanted to, but I, I'm not going to. I'm gonna intentionally leave that hole there.Nico: It also is the kind of thing, right, of like, oh gosh, Nova was saying this in the Dice Exploder Discord recently, where like, part of the reason the OSR can be so sort of rules light and stripped down is because like, it is relying a lot on the sort of cultural script of like, what is a fantasy role playing game, or even just like a fantasy story in general, you know? What your knowledge of an OSR game is.And this, in a similar way, is sort of like, you know what a hometown is. Like, you know, I don't need to tell you what the backstory of this is, because you know what it's like to be from somewhere. Cause it's also worth saying, like, this game does not give any character creation instructions, right? I mean, actually, I guess that's not entirely true, because underneath the postcard, you know, it just says, A decade or more gone since you fled the small backwater town that spawned you.And it's like, yeah, that's basically all the sort of character creation information you need, like,Sam: yeah, yeah, like wait, gonna play yourself and you're gonna be sad about this, like uh, Nico: Right, or, like, or if you're not playing yourself, you are playing a person who's sad about it, like, you know, it's like, it's kind of all you really need, Sam: you have internalized the tone of this thing, like, your character is in ways the negative space of the voice of the text. Nico: Like, a weird relationship with your small hometown, we just don't need to spend very much, time covering that broad background. It's much better spent covering the specific, like, locations and people in this town that also sort of help to convey that, feeling, that information.Sam: Temptations and terrors?Nico: Yes, probably The closest thing to a system that is in here, inasmuch as it's taken roughly verbatim from Trophy Dark Sam: yeah, I do think it is notable that when I wrote this I had not played Trophy Dark, and Trophy Dark is the one where you definitely die,Nico: Right. Right. Sam: My intention was not that you would definitely die in this. I really want escape to be a big possibility at the end and so it's interesting that I went with Trophy Dark as, like, the obvious system.Yeah, I like these lists. This is just a lot of tone setting, basically, right? I don't have a lot to say about the details here. The first terror, a children's toy, damp in a gutter, is a reference to another song that makes me cry. The Rebecca Sugar song for Adventure Time, Everything Stays.But most of the rest of this is just, vibes. Here's some vibes. I don't know, I re read these lists and I was like, yeah, they're fine, great, next page. But I don't know, is there anything that stands out to you here?Nico: I mean, I think the most important thing about these lists, these kinds of things, you could maybe even sort of broaden this to like pick lists in general, is that, they kinda need to do two things, like they need to both give you a good solid list of things to pick from, if you're like, at a loss, or if you just are like, looking through it, and you're like, this is good, I want to use this.Or, the other purpose of using it is to have it sort of identify the space that you're playing in to the point where you can come up with your own thing that like, could just be the next entry on that list, right? For me at least, the whole point of like, buying a game is like, I want something that I like, can't essentially come up with by myself, you know? Because I like to be surprised, I like to be sort of challenged, I like to be inspired, and so I think a really good game is one that you sort of like, read it, and you're like, okay, like, there's great things to use in here that I'm excited to use. I also, after having read this, am coming up with my own ideas. Like, equally long, if not longer, list of things that like, fit into this perfectlySam: Bring the vibes of your small town. Nico: Yeah, exactly, that I could also use. It's like, and so it's like, it's kind of funny that like, for me at least, the mark of a good game is like oh yeah, you both want to use everything that's contained in it, and also you immediately get way more of your own ideas than you could ever use when you're running the game.Sam: Yeah. Next?Nico: Yes. Act 1. Sam: I love this little guy, I love Wes he's just kind of a pathetic little dude, and I feel sad for him.Nico: It's so funny, too, because this particular little guy, like, doesn't look very pathetic to me. Like, he looks like he's kind of doing okay. Sam: I definitely like drew, like all the art in the book I drew, and I did it by just drawing a lot of little heads, and then assigning them to people. Like, there were a couple where they were defining details about how the people looked, that I knew I needed to draw specifically. But in general, I just drew a bunch of heads and then doled them out, and like, this is the one that ended up on Wes. And, I think that the contrast between, like, in my mind, Wes is this skinny, lanky, little kid, you know, he's like early 20s, finally making it on his own, and he has no idea what the hell's going on with the world, and he always looked up to you, and he's finally getting out of town. And then he's, he's like overcompensating with the beard for the fact that he's like balding really early, and like, you know, he's, I don't know, like, I think the contrast is just fun.Nico: I love this whole life that you have for this, this little, this little guy, like, which is, I can't stress this enough, mostly not contained in the text,Sam: Yeah. yeah. I think a good NPC is like that. I think it's really hard to transcribe the characters we get in our heads.Nico: yeah, Sam: I really like the, the pun in the Town Crier, I mean like the Town Crier feels like a horror movie trope, like the old man who's gonna be like, You got don't go up to the cabin! But it's also, like I wrote that down first and then just started describing this Wes guy and then I was like I'm gonna just like make a pun out of this.This is something I did all the time while writing this, was I had, like, a little oracle going, actually, at a certain point, like, in the same way that you would in a solo game with an oracle. Like, if I was stuck for an idea, I would just roll on the oracle table and then, like, fill in a detail that was somehow related to the oracle. Nico: Mhm. Sam: That, that didn't happen here, but the idea of, Oh, I want a little bit more description for this guy, like, what should I do? I, like, pulled the word crier, and then was like, Oh, that's really interesting, like, when would this guy have cried? Like, oh, that's a great question, let's just, like, put that to the player. I'm always, like, a thing in screenwriting that is really hard to do, and that I'm always looking for is, like, really good, pithy character descriptions.Like, a friend of mine loves the one like, this is a woman who always orders fajitas at a Mexican restaurant because she loves the attention that she gets when the fajitas come out.She hates fajitas. And that description just says Nico: That's Sam: much. It's so good, right? And that one's even a little bit long for like a screenplay, but it'd be great for like an RPG thing, right?And something about like Here's a little bit about this guy. You remember when he was crying once, like a baby? What was the deal with that? Like, it's such a, like, defines everything else about him. Like, I, I, I'm really proud that.Nico: Yeah. No, that's, that's how I felt a little bit with I ran Vampire Cruise at Big Bad Con this year. And that game has some of, like, the best random NPC generating tables that I've, like, ever seen and played with.I remember one specifically, it was, like, I was like, rolling to generate a passenger, and I think it was like, the secrets part of the table, or something like that, and what I rolled was like, regrets that she never got to see the dinosaurs, and it's like, what does that mean?Like, like, Sam: She had a traumatic experience at a science museum as a kid, or maybe she's like 10 million years old, like, I don't...Nico: or, yeah, or she's just like a weirdo who like really loves dinosaurs? It's like, it's, Like, it really gives you sort of what you need to just sort of like, spin a world out of that specific detail. Sam: It's weird because I like completely agree with you, and you know, I was tooting my own horn about like this question about Wes sobbing and also like, in every single spread of this thing, I'm taking like two full pages to talk about like one or two NPCs, which is a terrible way to do the thing that we are talking about doing. Like,Nico: That is true, that is, it must be said,Sam: it makes it feel so much more like a short story, or maybe like a solo game, right? It's like, eh, spend two pages, like, getting to know this guy. Nico: who won't come up again, spoiler alert, Sam: Yeah, it feels like the right call for this thing where like, I mean it's like the text is forcing you to sit with the memory of this guy, it's like forcing you to come in and like spend more time than you would like to like back at home with these people.And there's some like location context built into all these descriptions too, and we like learn about the bakery thing here and like old stories and stuff. And like, already it's like, do we need that shit to run this game? Like, absolutely not, like, get, get out of the way, like, but also, I don't know, it feels right?And it's one of the things that makes all this weird and, you know, unrunnable.Nico: Which is of course the goal, we don't want people to run this. Yeah, no, that's something that I've thought about in my own games as well, is, is, and just sort of like, my life, I guess, is sort of like, what makes a place that place, you know, like, what makes a town a town, what makes a city a city, like, is it the people who live there? Is it the places? Like, again, kind of back to the sort of Ship of Theseus metaphor, it's like, if everyone you know leaves, and a lot of the stores turnover, like, is that still your hometown? Like... Does your relationship to it change?And so I, in defense of, of what we're doing here, it makes a lot of sense to spend so much time thinking about the people and the places that are here because that also basically is the game, right?Like, like, this is not a dungeon crawl, right? Like, this is not a hack and slash thing, It's not a dungeon crawl, like, Sam: it's a person crawl. Nico: Yeah, exactly, you're yeah, the point of you coming home is you're trying to find Sidra, the person who sent you this postcard, asking you to come home, and yeah, you're basically doing a point crawl, trying to find this person.And then there are various conditions that need to be in place for you to actually find them = And yeah, so it's like, using more words than a sort of your standard OSR like dungeon crawl or point crawl or whatever, or hex crawl, but like, it's kind of the same way where it's like, yeah, but like, that's the game, that's the adventure, like, Sam: yeah, yeah. Another detail here I'm really proud of is the like, offhand remark about how Wes and Sidra aren't talking for what are probably romantic reasons. Because the implication, there's like a strong implication that you, player, have some sort of romantic history with Sidra, like, whether it was ever consummated or not. And I love the just sort of, like, offhand, Wes and Sidra had a thing that didn't work out, because it both... leaves open your potential romantic relationship with Sidra, but also like complicates it and like darkens it from whatever sort of nostalgic quote unquote pure like memory of it you had.And I love that it just sort of brings a little complexity into what happens when you leave for 15 years. And then like what it feels like when you like, hear, oh yeah, your ex has been like, dating someone for a couple years. What were we talking about? Like just that, like sometimes like a bolt of like, information about like, someone from your past that like, you care a lot about will just hit you and you'll be like, oh, wait, what? And we're just I'm supposed to just like, take that and move on? Like, yeah, yeah, Nico: It's also a very small town, right, where it's a sort of like, oh yeah, passing reference to this because everyone knows this already, right? Like, this is old news as well as, like, in a small town, it's like, there's a small pool of people your age that you're interested in, so, not like you're gonna get with all of them inevitably, but it's like, yeah, there's a pretty high chance that you might.Last thing I did wanna say on this, do you wanna share what Wes's name was in the first draft of this that I received?Sam: What was it? I don't rememberNico: It was Glup Shitto. It was, it was one of the first comments I left! It was one of the first comments I left! I was like, Sam, you've gotta know this can't be the final thing, right?Sam: knew it couldn't be the final name. But there was something really funny to me about like the one person who like doesn't fit into town, like this little fucking Star Wars fanboy like schmuck kid is just Glup Shitto. And he's leaving town cuz like when you got that name, it doesn't fit anymore. You gotta get the fuck out of there.No wonder the town couldn't absorb him. His name was Glup Shitto.Nico: I want to say, like, I might have, like, made my first round of comments because I was, like, yeah, feeling the same way of, like, okay, obviously this is not the finalSam: yeah, yeah, I just didn't change it and you were likebruh Nico: and then, yeah, and then you, like, made changes based on the comments that I left, and I went back to it, and I'm like, it's still Glup Shitto. Like, it simply can't be this! It's not allowed! It's, it's not legal! Like, Sam: there ought to be a law.Nico: yeah.Sam: Alright, let's do Act 2 gosh.Yeah, so I made this little map. I like the little map. This is just my hometown, incidentally. Like, there's so much in this that is just, like, pulling details directly from my hometown. That oracle that I mentioned earlier, like, Northfield, Minnesota was, like, one of the things on the oracle. And you can see that here in like, the riverwalk and this little bridge over it was very Northfield. the Rube, which we're getting to next, these two bars, the kind of cowboy themed bar thing was a thing.Nico: Again, it's a very small town of just like, no sort of reasonable business person would have these specific Sam: yeah, but they, they exist here for some reason Nico: it almost feels like the kind of thing where it's like, like they can exist in a really small town, because it's sort of like, well they're the only things here, and they can exist in like New York City Sam: yeah. Nico: everything's in New York city, and like every kind of place is there, but like anywhere in between, people would just be like, I don't understand, and then it goes out of business,Sam: Exactly. Yeah. Yeah, doctors always also a big portion of my childhood and my past always coming up in my stuff just because I spent so much time in hospitals as a kid. So the, inclusion of a doctor here is also very much something coming out of my hometown.I like the little mechanic here of, like, rolling and you, like, add one every, every time. I think that's a nice sort of way to handle trying to find Sidra. Nico: as like a classic Nico mechanic 'cause I simply haven't made and published that many things. But in my mind, my narcissistic fantasy, it is a classic me mechanic.Sam: I believe that came from you.Nico: I fucking love a table that like evolves over time.And it's not like I invented it, but like, I think my more standard thing is sort of like you have a table of like 12 things, and then you change which die you roll on it, you know, it's like, oh you can do like a d4 through d12 or whatever and that's like, I really like the ability to sort of go back to a table and, like, use it multiple times as opposed to, like, Okay, we have one table for this, we have a different table for that, you know.Sam: Additional persons. I really like this format for sort of generic NPCs, like, I'm not gonna tell you anything about this person, but I am gonna tell you what you think about them and your relationship to them.I think it's a really cool way of doing... Oh, do you just need to, like, bring someone in? You, like, met someone on the street or whatever? In a lot of other settings, you would just have, like, a random person, and it would be, like, the Vampire Cruise thing. If you give them an interesting detail in here, it'd be a cool thing.But I think, especially in, like, a small town format, the, like, here's your relationship to this person, because everyone knows everyone, and, every character that comes in, like, is gonna have to inspire some kind of feeling and past in you. I think this works really cool, reallyNico: It also feels very sort of true to life in terms of, at least, how I often GM things. Someone will be like, hey, can I, like, ask just, like, the next person I see on the street what they know about this thing? And I'm like, I mean, I fuckin I guess, like, it'll shock you to learn I don't have a name for that person, but, you know, I just have to, like, come up with, like, here's a weird voice, and like, a random thing they know, and like here's a name, Sam: This is a great way to turn that experience back on the player.Nico: exactly, yeah, there's this random person, you're like, alright, this is someone who owes you an apology, why is that?Like, Sam: yeah, Nico: I also wanna say that I feel like this was actually a relatively late addition to theSam: Yeah, it was. I always intended to write these, but it was like the last thing that I wrote.Nico: Yeah.Sam: Yeah.Nico: There was definitely some time when I sort of came back and looked at it, and all of a sudden there was this relatively large additional persons section in here, and I was like, huh, interesting.Sam: Yeah. I'm happy with how it came out. I think these are my best little guys. Nico: Oh yeah, Sam: I really like the unfinishedness of these little guys that you can project a little bit of yourself onto them while there's still some, like, major details there. This someone you seek vengeance upon looks a lot like a penis, and I don't know how I feel about that one, butNico: I was gonna say, I find that one fascinating as the ide

It's a fun BSE lined up as we wrap up the month of November -- and it will also likely be one of the last BSE episodes before the year ends.  Join Mo, Sam, and Dora as they bring a lot of wisdom and good times to some really interesting scenarios that people have on the show.  Caller #1 is Alex who is 30yrs old from Manila.  Alex's husband was caught trying to hook up on Reddit.  She is willing to forgive him even if he gave a bullshot answer to why it happened.  Is she too lenient on his cheating ways? Caller #2 is KC who is 30yrs old from Toronto.  KC wants to talk about retroactive jealous that she is experiencing with her new boyfriend. Caller #3 is Ann who is 32yrs old from Manila.  Ann is being cut-off by her family because she decided to have some space from their abusive ways. Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

BSE is back! Your favorite semi-wholesome trio is taking calls to talk about the riches of love, life, and family.  It's a fun get-together episode so check it out! GTWM Year 12 Episode 86! Caller #1 is Dan who is 32yrs old from Toronto.  Dan feels like his wife doesn't respect him.  When they argue she says she wants to leave him for another man.  They have 3 kids and she's the dominant force in the relationship, but how can he make it more happy? Caller #2 is Tita who is 54yrs old from Cavite. Tita has the world's worst husband and she thinks it's time for finally move on from all the cheating and other heinous acts he's done.  She's protected her kids from the truth but how is she supposed to start a better life for herself? Caller #3 is Yuki who is 33yrs old from Manila.  Yuki comes from a wealthy family but he is stuck in the family business.  Plus he wants to tell his family about a personal secret that he thinks might mean he will be disowned. Is it worth the risk? Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

In this episode, Joe chats with Sam Oh, a seasoned SEO expert and the VP of marketing for, Ahrefs. Discover the battle between Ahrefs and ChatGPT, exploring how AI can elevate your search experience. They discuss the challenges of ChatGPT in SEO, particularly in grasping the ever-changing landscape of search intent. Sam and Joe unveil how ChatGPT empowers users to ask hyper-specific questions, opening new frontiers in SEO. They also explore the evolving world of online search, shaped by AI and social platforms. The need to balance technological progress with retaining the essence of humanity is especially important now as technology progresses at an exponential rate. Additionally, they examine the distinct nature of SEO on YouTube, focusing on storytelling and creating unique journeys for unparalleled engagement. Finally, they highlight the core foundational principles of SEO – consistency and persistent effort across the right platforms.  Unlocking 7-Figure Success Sam's Path to SEO Triumph: Learn more about Sam's remarkable journey from early SEO success to becoming a valuable asset at Ahrefs. Ahrefs The Art of Enriching Your SEO and Achieving Optimal Search Results: Discover the power of Ahrefs in transforming your website into an SEO powerhouse, driving you toward success. AI vs. SEO Leveraging AI to Supercharge Your Search Experience: Unveil the AI battle between Ahrefs and ChatGPT, and learn how AI can enhance your search capabilities. Beyond Recycled Content ChatGPT's SEO Challenges in the Dynamic World of Search Intent: Explore the limitations of ChatGPT in SEO, where understanding ever-evolving search intent is the key to success. The Age of Precision ChatGPT Unleashes Hyper-Specific SEO Capabilities: Dive into the world of ultra-specific queries made possible by ChatGPT, ushering in a new era of SEO. The Evolution of Search How AI and Social Platforms Are Redefining Online Discovery: Witness the dynamic shifts in online search as AI and social platforms redefine the way we discover information. Tech's Human Connection Balancing Progress with Preserving Humanity: Delve into the importance of infusing technology with a touch of humanity as we progress into the future. YouTube's Unique SEO Weaving Stories and Journeys for Unparalleled Engagement: Uncover the art of SEO on YouTube, where storytelling and the journey aspect create unparalleled uniqueness. The SEO Foundation Consistency and Compounded Effort Across Relevant Platforms: Learn the core principles of SEO – consistency and persistent effort across the right platforms. Two Other Episodes You Should Check Out Mastering SEO for Lead Generation Strategies for Converting Traffic Into Customers With Gert Mellak The Power of Branded Searches Boosting Your Online Reputation With Gert Mellak Resources From Episode Ahrefs Sam Oh's Twitter Ahref's Youtube Learn more about search generative experience Perplexity.ai Contact Joe: joe@hustleandflowchart.com   Thanks for tuning into this episode of the Hustle & Flowchart Podcast! If the information in these conversations and interviews have helped you in your business journey, please head over to iTunes (or wherever you listen), subscribe to the show, and leave me an honest review. Your reviews and feedback will not only help me continue to deliver great, helpful content, but it will also help me reach even more amazing entrepreneurs just like you!

It's Mo's birthday on today's BSE episode as the trio take calls from the Philippines, the US, and the Middle East with questions about love and life. Let's check out this Best Show Ever! Caller #1 is Joe who is 25yrs old from Bulacan. Joe's dad is cheating on his mom with his niece's best friend. To complicate the issue, his dad is the head of a church, works for the government, and is denying any of it. Caller #2 is Jay who is 38yrs old from San Francisco. Jay's knife wielding wife get angry that he occasionally drinks with his friends, plays basketball, and does other activities. Is she an angry person or just feeling neglected? Caller #3 is Ray who is 34yrs old from Qatar. Ray's little brother cheated on his long time girlfriend with another girl who has two kids. Ray wants to warn his brother about the girl but he is worried he is meddling too much in his business. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Bed bugs in Paris? Katy Perry and Orlando Bloom entangled in yet another real estate lawsuit? U2 at The Sphere? Sam wraps up the week in culture with comedians Dylan Adler and Sam Oh. Also, we're bringing back our culturegeist segment at the end of the month. Do you have a thing in the culture that's been haunting you? Tell us about it. Record a short voice memo and send it to intoit@vulture.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Best Show Everrrrrrr! Finally after one month we have another BSE episode with Mo, Sam and Dora!  And it's a goodie! Three calls from thirtysomethings from all over the world sharing a variety of problems that are both fun to dissect and interesting to debate about.  Let's take a spin with the BSE trio! Caller #1 is Vine who is 34yrs old from Manila.  Vine's foreigner BF, they are LDR US/PH, got mad that after he sent a dick pic, she instead, focused a bit on the background of the photo.  That started a string of problematic conversation and she is wondering how to fix these issues. Caller #2 is Chloe who is 30yrs old from Tokyo.  Chloe and her boyfriend are having a baby but it was right after she getting pregnant did he start to change in attitude.  Now he's throwing hurtful lines and she is worried it may be his true colors or is it just the jitters of being a first-time father. Caller #3 is Kenneth who is 38yrs old from Melbourne.  Mo has a bit of a man crush on Kenneth who is a doctor in Australia -- and he is questioning whether all the effort to establish himself as a doctor there is worth it when life back home in Manila is more comfortable and the path to success may be easier.  Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify. --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Best Show Everrrrr! BSE back in action with Mo, Sam and Dora as they unite for the first time this month, taking calls and saving people from themselves! Three calls lined up today as the trio try to peel people's bananas one layer at a time.  It's love, life, and sex on GTWM Year 12 Episode 66! Caller #1 is Karen who is 42yrs old from Las Vegas.  Karen has gone out on 4 dates with a guy and he hasn't made an assertive move toward being more physical.  She wonders if he is gay, married, or has a micro-penis.  Caller #2 is Joe who is 34yrs old from Melbourne.  Joe found out his wife was on Tinder and he tracked her to a condo near a mall she said she was going to.  It so happened it was the same condo the guy she matched with lives in.  Should he confront his wife about this even though he is certain a fight will ensue. Caller #3 is May who is 23yrs old from Laguna.  May is a cute dentistry student who gets lonely at night and fill time with going on Bumble to match with men.  She knows its not a good idea but how can she stop this activity when it brings her so much attention. Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

A  very strong ending to the month of July as the Best Show Ever trio takes up a tonne of ups and downs on today's episode.  This is not for the faint of heart. Join Mo, Sam and Dora on an emotional rollercoaster on this GTWM Year 12 Episode 61. Caller #1 is Trish who is 30yrs old from Singapore.  Trish is fresh from a traumatic relationship that ended up with her being cheated on.  The love interest in her life is also fresh from a breakup with cheating.  Her question is How to Make Landi so she can lock this relationship in. Caller #2 is Bea who is 29yrs old from Batangas.  Bea called episode 29 about her gf who broke up with her but they were still living in together and their relationship has gotten stronger.  Tragically, her gf passed away last week and she is trying to deal with aftermath of a post breakup death. Caller #3 is Trixie who is 30yrs old from Manila.  Trixie is also a return caller.  Her kalaban ni Jacky Chan boyfriend cheated on her.  She tried to forgive him and work on the marriage for the sake of their baby but now he has ghosted her.   Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

It's Friyay and we have three GTWM episodes lined up for you this weekend starting with today's BSE!  Mo, Sam, and Dora take two calls from two guys who have some issues with scandals!  Let's check out the group. Caller #1 is Cal who is 33yrs old from Melbourne.  Call called in Episode 52 telling the trio about his wife who kicked him out of the house after she found out he banged her cousin.  Now cousin is saying she was raped! Caller #2 is Buboy who is 33yrs old from the Philippines.  Buboy matched with a girl online and on their second day of getting to know each other, they had video phone sex.  Unknown at the time to him, she recorded the whole thing and is now asking for 10,000 for her to not post it. Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support

Best Show Ever!  Mo, Sam, and Dora team up once again to take a couple of calls from US based callers.  It's another fun show full of variety and good times! Caller #1 is Mark who is 34yrs old from NYC. Mark's spouse cheated on him and now that they are in therapy working on the marriage, Mark is now the one hiring escorts and hiding it from his spouse.  Caller #2 is Lee who is 28yrs old from San Francisco.  Lee 's fiance cheated on her in the first year of their relationship; however, she just found out about it recently.  Their wedding is set for November but she's having second thoughts and trust issues. Powered by Spotify, we will see you on another episode of GTWM tomorrow. Thanks for the download and please support the podcast by donating as little as $0.99 cents via Spotify! --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/message Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/djmotwister/support