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What if you could retain the doors you manage even when your owners decide to sell? What would that mean for you and your property management business? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Lior from Blanket to talk about how property managers can retain doors while also helping investors grow and add more to their portfolios. You'll Learn [02:59] Property Managers Can Become Asset Managers [11:13] Valuable Lessons Learned from Tough Situations [25:40] How to Move into More of an Asset Manager Role [37:25] Reducing Client and Retaining Clients [47:51] Helping Your Investors Grow Their Portfolios Quotables “You have to be very robotic, very technical, and that is one of the most important skills that really allows me to face difficult, you know, decisions in life, especially in business, without taking them personally.” “When you are rational and you're not driven by emotions, that actually allows you to be a lot more, you know, empathetic and kind and caring.” “There are no failures in life. There are only challenges, and every challenge is an opportunity for success.” ”Why be so focused on the failure if you can be focused on the lesson that you're going to learn, even before you even know it?” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] Lior: The combination of these two, this is what allows you to be that ultimate asset manager to your clients. That can help your clients, optimize their portfolio and generate more cash flow, but on the other hand, help them make more money by expanding their portfolio, buying more properties, and growing it. [00:00:18] Jason: Welcome everybody to the DoorGrow Show. I'm Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. We are the world's leading and most comprehensive coaching and consulting firm for long-term residential property management entrepreneurs. [00:00:31] Jason: For over a decade and a half, we have brought innovative strategies and optimization to the property management industry. At DoorGrow, we have spoken to thousands of property management business owners, coached, consulted, and cleaned up hundreds of businesses, helping them add doors, improve pricing, increase profit, simplify operations, and build and replace teams. [00:00:52] Jason: We are like Bar Rescue for property managers. In fact, we have cleaned up and rebranded over 300 businesses and we run the leading property management mastermind with more video testimonials and reviews than any other coach or consultant in the industry. At DoorGrow, we believe that good property managers can change the world, and that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. [00:01:17] Jason: At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. Now let's get into the show. All right, so today I'm hanging out with Lior. [00:01:37] Jason: How do you say your last name? Abramovich?  [00:01:42] Jason: Abramovich.  [00:01:43] Jason: Abramovich. Man. I butchered that one. All right. So with Blanket, he's repping it on a t-shirt, if you're seeing the video version of this. And so, Lior, we've had several calls, hanging out and you're just a really cool guy and we've really enjoyed hanging out. [00:02:01] Jason: Yeah. We've really enjoyed hanging out. He's given me a heart shape with his hand for those listening. But I haven't had you on the podcast yet, have I?  [00:02:09] Lior: True. This is the first time.  [00:02:11] Jason: Yeah. That's so odd to me. Usually people start by doing the podcast with me and so we're doing the reverse. [00:02:17] Jason: And you're a sponsor at DoorGrow Live, our conference coming up. Thank you. And we're really excited to have you there. One of our vendors said it's the only conference he still attends now. That's it. He's like, "it's the one I get the most value from learning, and the other ones just aren't worth the, you know, paying to go be a vendor there." [00:02:36] Jason: And I'm like, okay, cool. So hopefully you get some benefit from doing that as well. So I'm excited Lior to expose people to Blanket because I think it's very complimentary to our vision and what we do at DoorGrow in helping grow property managers. And I would call it like a client retention platform, but maybe you describe it differently. [00:02:57] Jason: But before we get into that, why don't we give some background on you and why don't you tell everybody how you kind of got into entrepreneurism, then got into property management and give us some backstory. We need the origin story of Lior.  [00:03:11] Lior: Will do. I'll try to make it exciting and interesting. [00:03:13] Jason: Okay.  [00:03:14] Lior: I started from real estate. I didn't start from the tech side or from, you know, the startup world. I started as an investor. I bought my first rental property in Atlanta, Georgia when I was about 18 years old. So started quite early with a lot of inspiration from my mom, which is my role model in life for pretty much everything. [00:03:33] Lior: And at that point in time, I actually was doing that investment from Israel, thousands of miles away. This is where I was born and raised. I actually moved here to the States just about a year, yeah, exactly a year ago. Moved to Miami, Florida. After just, you know, living on the line, flying back and forth almost every month for multiple years, but in that first stage of like my, you know, real estate, I would say career, at that point I also started my active duty service in the Israeli Navy. [00:04:05] Lior: So I'm a graduate of the Israeli Naval Academy, then served for almost nine years as a naval commander commanding hundreds of soldiers, officers, and combat soldiers in quite intense and interesting situations I would say. That's a whole topic that we can talk about for hours in another podcast. [00:04:25] Lior: Yeah. Episode.  [00:04:26] Jason: Interesting. I didn't know that about you.  [00:04:28] Lior: Yeah. That was quite an intense nine years and definitely shaped me as a person and as an entrepreneur as well. Most of what I know, most of what I do, most of what I act upon is pretty much majority, you know, of what I learned and implemented in myself as a person in my qualities, in my values, in my worldviews through that time in the Navy. [00:04:52] Lior: And, you know, before that, before like that step of buying that first rental property, it's not like it came from out of nowhere. You know, probably I started as most of our listeners today by reading the book Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert Kiyosaki when I was about 13 years old. Again, my mom gave me that as a birthday gift at 13 years old. [00:05:14] Lior: And to me it was fascinating, this whole concept that you can, you know, like make money from like a property that you actually took money from the bank to pay for it, and it pays for itself and it makes some extra money. So this whole like very, you know, conceptualized plan was very interesting to me. [00:05:35] Lior: And I said like, this is something I would like to do at some capacity in my life. Especially because the fact that I was born for a family of immigrants, my entire family came from Ukraine to Israel. So we didn't have, you know, very good financial you know, let's say position in life as most immigrants do. [00:05:54] Lior: And my grandparents don't have, you know, today also a pension plan that, or that's how we call it in Israel. And here we call it 401k. So they don't have that. And to me, real estate was always a way to take care of my loved ones, to take care of my grandparents, to be able to at least give them one rental property that can enable them stable, and I would say secure financial retirement, and just really retire with dignity, retire safely. And that was like the big why behind everything I'm doing. So. Quick, you know, fast forward nine years in the Navy, kept doing real estate throughout that time. Helped a lot of my fellow naval officers to buy properties in the United States. [00:06:38] Lior: Okay. And then started working for a big investment firm in the United States that was doing build to rent before build to rent was a thing. You know, today, you know, people are talking about build to rent is with this cool name, but back then we just called it new construction you know, for investors. [00:06:52] Lior: So we were one of the largest operators in the Southeast. We were one of the largest operators, specifically in Georgia and Alabama. And I started there as their head of acquisitions quickly promoted to vice president of business development, overseeing our entire operation from due diligence, meaning land acquisition development, and then, you know, disposition and sales and marketing. [00:07:14] Lior: So, really had the opportunity to experience every part of the value chain of real estate investments from start to finish, seeing all the good, seeing all the bad, I had, you know, contractors that went bankrupt in the middle of a 300 property community. And I had very good stories as well. But that whole period of time of me working there for almost three years was the best school I ever got to really, you know, operate as an operator and manage an operation of hundreds of millions of dollars because in that time alone, I personally oversaw about $200 million worth of acquisitions and worked directly with over a thousand individual investors, mainly mom and pop investors, like most of you know, the clients of most of our listeners today. And the unique thing about it, and this is where Blanket sort of like starts to form up as an idea, the unique thing about my position in that company was that it had a very interesting model where. [00:08:16] Lior: All the clients that we sold properties to, which were clients, by the way, all over the world. We worked with buyers from Israel, Canada, Russia, China, Australia, like everywhere. You know, that was one of our, you know, major, I would say efficiencies, which we were working with a lot of foreign investors and we are one of the biggest drivers of that. [00:08:38] Lior: So we've seen pretty much everything in every one of those clients that we actually sell the property to we kept managing the relationship with them instead of the property manager. So think of that company as like an investor relations arm, right? Where you refer that client after we sell a property to a property manager partner that we worked with and we worked with a lot of folks and then that property manager is not talking with that owner. [00:09:05] Lior: No headaches, no nothing. We are managing that owner. So every time the owner has a question, he sends that to us and if we need, we escalate that to the property manager. If the property manager wants to convey something, he escalates that. So like he gives it to us and we pass it on to the owner. But the whole notion was that we will be their asset manager and this whole thing enabled me to see all the things that work and all the things that don't work when it comes to owner relationships and how property managers manage their owner relationships, especially with the things that are missing, which is what owners expect and what property managers don't provide, which leads in many cases to churn. [00:09:48] Lior: And that churn problem that today is pretty much the same as it has been 10 years ago, which is almost 25 to 30% annually. That's the average in the industry today in terms of how many properties we're losing today as property managers. So in that aspect, like you think to yourself, okay, what's causing that? [00:10:09] Lior: And that was the question that always led me to ask all my property management partners. Why are you losing so many clients? Like, we know we're doing an awesome job as your asset manager and you know, but like why is this a big problem in your business today? Yeah, and a lot of it was always due to owner sales or to owner experience, which we were solving a lot for because we were taking care of those owners. [00:10:33] Lior: So every time they wanted to sell a property, they told us and we were able to sell it inside the other, you know, the network of property owners and clients. And also when they... [00:10:43] Jason: if somebody wanted to sell property that was a client, you would be able to turn around and sell to one of your other clients so that you continued to keep the property, which is exactly awesome, which is a no brainer. [00:10:55] Jason: And I'm sure a lot of property managers like say that would be the ideal. That'd be great if I can do the sales, get those commissions, and still be able to keep the property in my portfolio. That would be really great. Exactly. Blanket helps do this, right?  [00:11:11] Lior: Yeah. We'll get to Blanket in a second.  [00:11:13] Jason: I have a question before we continue. You mentioned being in the military and being in the Navy and being Navy commander. I didn't know this about you. So what do you feel like that did to change you? How do you feel like you would be different if you hadn't have gone through that?  [00:11:30] Lior: It will be pretty much everything that I know and everything that I do. [00:11:33] Lior: But if I were to pick a few, I would say main things that were changed in how I view the world and how I operate, number one is being more rational than emotional, pretty much about everything. My mom even jokes all the time. She says, I'm like a robot, like you know, I'm not driven by emotions at all. [00:11:54] Lior: And that is one of the things that you have to sort of develop yourself into, when you're dealing with life threatening, you know, situations, you have to be rational. You have to be very robotic, very technical, and that is one of the most important skills that really allows me to face difficult, you know, decisions in life, especially in business, without taking them personally. [00:12:16] Lior: And, you know, it's business.  [00:12:17] Jason: I love, I love that idea. One of my favorite books lately is this book by a guy named Jerr, this philosopher, and it's called, The Wall Speaks and it's all about building a masculine frame. And it's being less emotional, displaying less emotion, and how that earns you respect and how that makes people around you, especially women, feel safer and everything else. [00:12:40] Jason: And this is something that just, if you are in very challenging situations. Like war, you know, military, whatever, like you learn this naturally. It's just, it hardwires it into you and. Yeah, exactly. Over emotionality is going to make a lot more sense. It's much more rational. So yeah, I think that's a great principle. [00:13:03] Lior: I would say even more than that, because probably, you know. The first thing that comes to mind when you hear that is like, oh, I don't want to be, you know, a cold person or a very, you know, apethetic person, like someone who doesn't, you know, acknowledge other people's feelings, et cetera. Sure. I say on the contrary, when you are very rational and you're not clouded by emotions, you are emotionally available to express emotion, to express care, to express, you know, concern about the other person in front of you, because you're not all centered in what you are feeling right now because something is, you know, bothering you and you're like all into that. [00:13:42] Lior: Instead, you are able to look at the other person in front of you and think how they're feeling. Think what, you know, what can help them feel better. So like when you are rational and you're not driven by emotions, that actually allows you to be a lot more, you know, empathetic and kind and caring. [00:14:00] Lior: Because you're not centered on what you're feeling and what you're experiencing, then you can really be thinking about the other person.  [00:14:07] Jason: Yeah. I love that. I think in order to reach that space, like it talks about in the wall speaks, we have to get out of this mode of trying to please everybody and trying to please others. [00:14:17] Jason: And so when we're so concerned about how everyone feels about us and we're too concerned about emotion, then we're trying to please everybody. So I love this idea this first point of rationale over emotion. This is super important in business. [00:14:31] Jason: And I love the idea that it actually enables you to be a better leader, to be able to take in and take into account other people's emotions and to see things from their perspective, because that's a more rational viewpoint than getting overly, you know, steeped in your own emotion and which blinds you to what others are feeling and what others are experiencing. [00:14:53] Jason: So you said that's number one. So I'm guessing there's a number two.  [00:14:55] Lior: There are, there are a lot. There are a lot more, but we'll keep to the I would say to the big ones. Yeah. The second thing is this very strong belief. I would say almost religious belief that there are no failures in life. [00:15:12] Lior: There are only challenges, and every challenge is an opportunity for success. Love it. That whole perspective. Well, it takes time to really live by it, but once you live by it, you don't have stress, you don't have, you don't worry about stuff. On the contrary you're getting excited about things that don't work. [00:15:33] Lior: You're getting excited about, you know, things that you would normally call failures because you're excited about what's on the other end of that. What's the lesson to be learned and what's the improvement that you're going to bring? So instead of. Being concerned about this thing right now, that it's not working. [00:15:50] Lior: You are excited, positively about what is going to happen after that because it's going to make you better. It's going to make your business better. So like this whole notion of understanding that at the end of every problem, challenge, failure, that some people might call, on the other side of that, there's always a good side. [00:16:13] Lior: Like think of it as like a coin, right? Like that's how I try to see, you know, failures in life. On one side you see the failure, you know, as some people would call it. But on the other side is the lesson, and every failure has that lesson. So why be so focused on the failure if you can be focused on the lesson that you're going to learn, even before you even know it? But you know there will be something there. You know you will be better. You know your business will be better. So let's get excited about that.  [00:16:40] Jason: Yeah, I love this idea so much. I often say I either win or I learn.  [00:16:46] Lior: Exactly.  [00:16:47] Jason: There's the only way you lose is if you quit or you give up. That's it. Like, so I either win or I learn. And I love this idea that, you know, after every struggle or failure or uncomfortable emotional experience or challenging, you know, thing in life, if we don't learn from it, then yeah, it's just trauma. It's just a problem. But if you learn from it, it becomes the bricks by which you build your character, by which you build a whole new life and a whole new self image. And if you learn from it, you're destined to not repeat it as well, which is nice. So you learn the lesson. Exactly. [00:17:23] Jason: And I think, you know, God and the universe keeps giving us the same lessons over and over again, maybe in stronger and stronger fashion until we finally learn the lesson. And I think going along with these two points, which relates heavily is being open and willing to take feedback from others, you know? [00:17:42] Jason: And so one of the things that I've, realized is that feedback a lot of people think is painful, and it can be really uncomfortable, but I've noticed that when I go to my mentors and I'm open and vulnerable to getting feedback. Sometimes, you know, it can cut pretty deeply, but it's good medicine and that's where I have the most growth and learning. [00:18:00] Jason: And so I've learned to actually love and enjoy the discomfort of feedback. And so I seek it now. Then I collapsing time on my learning. Yeah, and I'm experiencing the discomfort in that and, but I know that there's benefits to that because now I can see something that I was blind to or I'm experiencing something that I didn't realize. The reason I hire these mentors is because they're at a vantage point in some sort of area that they're ahead of me. And so being willing to get feedback takes somebody that's willing to be really rational and it takes somebody that's willing to see that there's no failure. You are not bad, sick, and wrong because somebody pointed out something that you're doing that's bad, sick, and wrong. Like that means now you have an opportunity to change or improve, which is good news. [00:18:43] Jason: It's like the best news ever. Yeah. Love this  [00:18:46] Lior: 100%.  [00:18:47] Jason: That's why we get along, Lior. You and I have just been through enough shit to learn some lessons, so. Hell yeah. So cool. Do you have a third one for us?  [00:18:55] Lior: Yeah, let's do a quick one. Leading by example. Okay. Is number one. And I'll actually give a quick story here just to explain how powerful that is. [00:19:06] Lior: And I think that's also really important for, you know, all of our listeners for property managers. Because in my first assignment in the Navy as a commander, I was assigned as a chief engineer, meaning I was in charge of the mechanics department. These are all the folks that are working the hardest. Like, think of them as like your maintenance, you know, contractors. [00:19:26] Lior: These are the folks who are going in fixing plumbing, fixing AC systems and like heating systems, like getting really dirty, you know, and like crawling underneath engines filled with like gasoline and stuff. It's like the hardest job in, you're doing the worst,  [00:19:44] Jason: worst job. It's like Mike Rowe's show Dirty Jobs. [00:19:48] Lior: Yeah. I don't want to be too explicit and vivid. But you're dealing with like pipes of like things that you know Sure. We use for other things stuff and who knows.  [00:19:56] Jason: Yeah. Okay.  [00:19:57] Lior: Exactly. It's bad. It's bad. Yeah. So anyways, so on when I was first assigned as the chief engineer, so the chief engineer in the ship is like the second to the commander. [00:20:07] Lior: Like if the, something happens to the commander of the ship. I'm taking command. So, you know, you have your respect and your sort of like, honor just with the title, you know? Yeah. It comes with it and you can walk around like, you know, like a peacock. Very proud of yourself and, you know, I'm like, I'm the boss. [00:20:25] Lior: I'm the big man or whatever.  [00:20:27] Jason: Yeah.  [00:20:27] Lior: Or you can do some other things. And for example, what I did on the first day of me getting, you know, onboard the ship and, you know, getting the role and getting command of the ship. So the first thing that I did was like every day we have like an hour at the end of the day that we're cleaning the entire ship. [00:20:46] Lior: And part of cleaning the ship is also for the mechanics department. Is getting below the engines that run the ship and cleaning all the oil residue that builds up there. So you have to literally, you know, take a lot of like cloths and sheets and just like, dive into the oil and just push it out. [00:21:04] Lior: Wow. So like you get out black, like completely black. And normally the ones who are doing it are the youngest, you know, mechanics and the youngest soldiers on the ship because it's like, you know, it's a newbie. Don't have seniority.  [00:21:16] Jason: And they're new and you give them the worst job. They get the shit job. [00:21:19] Lior: Exactly. So what I did, I went and got beneath the engines myself. Yeah. And it, it became a show. All the soldiers came to watch. Oh man, the chief got beneath the engines. He's crazy. What is he doing? It was a shock, but nobody forgot that. Like my soldiers up until today, were like best friends or like my little brothers, they remember this until today, this little thing that I never done after that again, by the way, I did it once. [00:21:48] Lior: Yeah. But they never forget it. And that sets so many examples in terms of what I expect from them in terms of ownership, you know, and values and teamwork and not being afraid to take on, you know, jobs that, that are like beneath me or whatever. That was such a powerful message without me even saying a word. [00:22:08] Lior: Yeah. So think of yourself as a property manager. Like what things you can do like that, that you need to do only once maybe in your life, you know, and show your employees that you're not afraid to get dirty and do the hard work and really show them that nobody should be feeling that something is beneath them or like it's not, you know, to their level or whatever. [00:22:31] Lior: Like if you are doing that, like who am I to, you know, raise any objections of doing something? Like I'm not the company owner and if the company owner is doing that, I better do that. Right? So  [00:22:44] Jason: yeah, that's a great story. Great example. I. You know, it's a great display of leadership. There's a really good book kind of about this principle called The Motive by Patrick Lencioni. [00:22:54] Jason: And in he talks about how there's two types of CEOs and there's the CEOs that think because of their position, everybody owes them everything. They're king, they deserve everything. And they end up having organizations that have a lack of ownership, a lack of accountability, and a lot of problems. [00:23:10] Jason: Because they think they're superior to everybody else. And then there's the CEOs that have the right motive and they understand that they have the worst job in the company because their job is to do anything that's not working and to step in anywhere that there's a problem and they need to be willing to, like you talked about, get dirty and start, like help out at the bottom if that's what the business needs to get clarity or to fix things or to figure it out. [00:23:38] Jason: And so being able to display that is a powerful thing. Like it reminds me the other day, I'm training some setters right now to do some cold calls for us, do some outreach to property managers. because we're like. The best kept secret in property management. Not all our people have heard of DoorGrow still, and so we're having them do some outreach and they're like, oh, it's really hard. [00:23:56] Jason: I don't know how to deal with gatekeepers and all this. And you like the subtext says, Jason, you don't understand. This is difficult. So I'm like, cool, let me do it right now. And I picked up the phone and they were watching me on Zoom and I'm cold calling and doing it. And the second call I got first was a voicemail. [00:24:11] Jason: I'm like, here's how to leave a voicemail to get them to call you back. And then the second call was a receptionist. And I connected with her. I made her laugh. I got info from her about the business owners, what their challenges are. Oh, there's two business owners. Okay, cool. And I got all this information about how many doors they have, everything about the business because I was nice to the receptionist and treated her like a person. [00:24:34] Jason: And and she was helping me out. She wouldn't give me their cell phone numbers, but I got everything else I needed so we could call back. And I'm like, cool. Did you see how that went? And they were like, well, it's really cool. So yeah, when we're willing to step in and show them how to do something, it can break some of their preconceived ideas, their perceptions, and so yeah, they see a leader and they're like, oh, well the leader can do this and the leader can do this well. Be cause if everybody underneath you is like, yeah, but he's never done this hard stuff, or he hasn't done this, and they're like. There's always that story. Well, he did that worst job, like he was pushing, they're like, what? Yeah, first day? I mean, it speaks volumes of character and it, yeah, it makes your leadership much easier. [00:25:19] Jason: That's kind of the equivalent of people say, if you get thrown in prison, go fight the biggest guy there, or something like this. Right? And that was the most challenging thing that nobody thought you would do, and you went and did it. And so, yeah, you earned respect. And you know, leadership has to be born out of respect. [00:25:35] Jason: So these are great principles. This was valuable in the podcast alone. So let's move on to getting into Blanket. And I think this is a game changer. I think every property management business owner should be using Blanket every single one. It's an absolute no brainer. It helps them retain their clients, well retain the properties. [00:25:58] Jason: So basically keeping their portfolio, even if the owners are leaving and it gives them access to a network of investors. And there's just so many benefits. So I'll let you tell everybody about it because you probably know a little bit more than I do, so.  [00:26:12] Lior: Sure. Thanks. Sure thing. I'll actually do I normally have, you know, the whole spiel and the features and what we provide and whatever, but I think if we already started on such a inspiring, I would say, note to the, to this episode. [00:26:25] Lior: I'll start with the why. With why we're doing what we're doing, because I think it's important and we, and I think we're not doing a good job maybe at explaining the why enough in pretty much everywhere we go about, yeah.  [00:26:36] Jason: People don't buy what you do. Simon Sinek says they buy why you do it. [00:26:39] Jason: So, exactly. Let's into the why behind Blanket. Why does Blanket exist? Yeah.  [00:26:44] Lior: So the overarching premise is that. Today there is a very big, I would say, failure or gap in the market in our single family rental market. When you look at other asset classes, when you look at commercial, when you look at, you know, multifamily, industrial office, any investors in those asset classes have an investment manager, a professional investment manager. [00:27:13] Lior: That provides them, you know, quarterly, you know, reports provides them with strategy sessions about their next capital, you know, allocation about their disposition. Yes, they have someone to guide them in a very professional way to their goals and to and to match their needs. The only asset class, the only asset class that does not have the function of an investment manager is single family. [00:27:40] Lior: Yeah. And that's especially the asset class that needs it the most because 99% of all single family rental owners are mom and pop investors. Institutional players own, roughly, depending on which source you're reading, but roughly between one to 2% of all the single family rental properties across the country. [00:28:02] Lior: The most is owned by mom and pop investors. The people who need that guidance the most. And they don't have that, which is why they're making mistakes, which is why they have maybe sometimes, and I bet all the listeners can agree some unrealistic expectations of what a property manager should do. And that creates a big gap that the only one losing or not the only one, but like the two people that are losing from the situation is that mom and pop owner and us, the property manager, because we then lose a lot of clients. [00:28:36] Lior: And it's sort of like this identity crisis where we as property managers are perceived as service providers, as rent collectors, as toilet fixers, but we are held accountable as if we're the investment managers. Like, you know, why am I losing so much money on this property? [00:28:57] Lior: It's all you. It's all about you. You didn't, you know, collect the rent. You didn't rent it on time. Yeah. Why it's vacant. Like with all due respect, you are the one who bought this property. You know, you bought it in this problematic area. You bought a very old property that never replaced the roof, never replaced the ac, and it is a very bad shape in a very bad neighborhood. [00:29:17] Lior: Like there is a limit to what I can do for you at the end of the day. But the problem is that we as property managers, we're stuck in this middle where we are held accountable. As if we're their investment manager, but we're perceived as just a service provider, which is the most difficult position to be at. [00:29:34] Lior: Now, how does that connect to our why? When I started doing real estate again, remember that like my personal why my grandparents, right? I wanted to build a real estate portfolio that will allow me to give them at least one property from which they can live off. To act as their pension. Sort of like plan. [00:29:53] Lior: And as, as more as I grew up in this industry as an operator, as sort of like a property manager without all the headaches of operation, you know, just acting as the owner relationship manager. I understood that if there was a platform, you know, back then when I was just dreaming about it, if there was a platform that will empower the property managers to become investment managers for their clients. I know that my parents and my loved ones can be in good hands because if those property managers that manage my grandparents' homes can tell them what to do based on, you know, what's happening with the property, when should they renovate, maybe, when should they sell, when maybe when should they refinance and cash out? [00:30:40] Lior: Or maybe when should they buy another property or any other question that is sort of like surrounding the investment life cycle or the investment journey, right? I know that their sort of like goal of retiring financially safe can be handled because there is no one else who will take care of that. The agent who maybe, you know, sold them that property, he has no vested interest in the long term. [00:31:05] Lior: He's doing a transaction and he's done. Out. The lender, same thing. He got the origination fees, he secured the loan, he's out the window and they're out. Nobody besides the property manager has a long-term vested interest in the wellbeing of the property owner. So for us, this is what motivates our entire team. We understand that if we'll be able to empower our partners, our property managers into investment managers, we will take care of our loved ones. [00:31:36] Lior: We will make sure that they will be in good hands and this is the why, because there is a gap that only property managers can fill. And this is that the gap of a missing investment manager for the investors that are the least experienced, that need the guidance the most, this is what we wake up for, this is what we work for. [00:32:00] Lior: This is everything that, you know, leads in every decision making intersection or like point in our company's life cycle. Yeah, I love it.  [00:32:08] Jason: This is why we come to leaders. This is why people come to a property manager. They're looking for leadership, they're looking for guidance. And when you're at that peak of customer satisfaction, customer service, that's where you are an advice giver, where you're giving advice, not just like the title of this episode is from Rent Collector to Asset Manager, and the idea is: [00:32:32] Jason: if you can go from just being somebody that keeps the rent coming to helping them manage the asset, you are already head and shoulders above other management companies. So if you can present yourself as an asset manager, and I've had a podcast episode with a client who's very good at doing this, he is able to assess their property. [00:32:51] Jason: We have this really cool tool called the ROI calculator. He'll help show them whether it's performing properly, what the long-term benefits are. What the tax benefits are, and so he can help them assess the property and they already just view him as an expert instead of wanting to work with any other management company. [00:33:08] Jason: So a lot of you feel like you're competing with other management companies because you're doing cold lead marketing stuff that probably doesn't work very well. And if you're doing that, reach out to DoorGrow, we'll help you fix that problem. But there's plenty of business out there. There's no scarcity. [00:33:20] Jason: But if you do feel like you're competing with other companies, one way to set yourself head and shoulders above the rest is to no longer be a property manager that just collects rent and coordinates maintenance, but to be an asset or portfolio manager for this investor. So, how does Blanket help with this? [00:33:37] Lior: I think we nailed it. We are right on point. And I love,  [00:33:40] Jason: I love it. I mean, everyone needs to realize this is the motivator. This is the reason. Because property managers, if you want to have an easier time closing deals, you want to retain clients, keep clients trusting you, and if clients trust you as an asset manager, they're way more hands off. [00:33:56] Jason: They don't try to manage the manager, they stop trying to micromanage you because they look at you as the advice giver and as the advisor instead of thinking, this is just somebody that works for me that I now need to manage and make sure they're not stealing from me and they do it my way.  [00:34:11] Lior: Exactly. [00:34:11] Lior: So we are really tackling this mission from two angles and the understanding here is that. As you said, if you are acting as a trusted advisor, if you're acting as an asset manager and your clients appreciate you as one, you will have less churn and you will grow a lot faster. So when we're thinking about these two, you know, functions of your business, on the one hand churn and on the other hand, growth, these two things always go together in property management. [00:34:47] Lior: Why? Because if we're looking at the average,  [00:34:49] Jason: and let's explain churn real quick for, because some people, this is a new term for them, they're like, what does this mean? Churning? So churn means you're losing business, you're losing clients, they're churning out. So this is the rate at which you're losing clients every year. [00:35:03] Lior: Exactly. Exactly. It's how many doors you lost technically, again, no matter what the reason, but like you lost the door, you know that's churn. So in property management there is a very unique and frustrating thing is that you'll always have churn. You can never lower to zero. Why? Because life happens. You might have a client that's super, super happy with what you're providing. [00:35:27] Lior: He loves you. He loves the relationship, he loves the service. He's getting everything from you, but suddenly life happens and he needs the money, he needs to sell that property, unfortunately. It has nothing to do with your performance, it's just his life. So that property is going to be sold and you're going to lose that, so you'll have churn. [00:35:46] Lior: So in property management there always be churn and it's something we have to accept. So that means if you can't, you know, really lower churn to zero, that means you always have to have a growth strategy to offset the doors that you're still going to lose. Yeah. So growth and churn, and. Or the opposite of churn, which is retention. [00:36:10] Lior: Okay. Growth and retention and property management have to work together always at all times. On the one hand, if we're like, imagine a bucket of water and your task is to keep in full and you have a hole at the bottom so it's leaking. Okay? Yeah. So you always have to work on closing that leak. [00:36:31] Lior: But you always have to keep pouring more water to keep it at the same level. That's pretty much the secret. That's how Blanket is built. We have two packages, one called Retain and the other called Grow. Very simple not too complicated on that front. And each one has various features and various products to help you achieve that goal. [00:36:53] Lior: So, for example. And by the way the combination of these two, this is what allows you to be that ultimate asset manager to your clients, right? That can help your clients, first of all, optimize their portfolio and generate more cash flow, and forget about a lot of headaches that come with property investing, but on the other hand, help them make more money by expanding their portfolio, buying more properties, and growing it. [00:37:20] Lior: So the combination of these two packages, that's what helps you allow, you know, what helps you be an ultimate asset manager. Now, what do each one of those packages do? So the Retain package gives your clients a branded investor dashboard. So it has your logo, it has your face, nobody knows who Blanket is, and that investor dashboard gives your clients real time performance metrics. [00:37:42] Lior: It allows them to see how their properties are really doing. Through an integration with their property management software and through pulling a lot of data from title companies, public county records, and national data providers that allow them to really see every property related transaction in real time from their mortgage payments, their property taxes, their insurance, their HOA and everything that you're tracking as well in your property management software. [00:38:07] Lior: So that way they can see exactly what's their net cash flow every month. They can see their property's value and how much it appreciated this month. And they can also see how much equity they have in their homes so that whenever it's time for them to take the next step, they can quickly press on the cash out button and refinance and extract the equity that they have in those proceeds and buy another property with that. [00:38:30] Lior: So that's part of the retained package that is owner facing. All the rest of the features are property manager facing, meaning your team is going to use them. But one thing I forgot to mention on that front, on the sort of like investor dashboard that your clients are getting, we also are doing what we call white labeled email communications. [00:38:52] Lior: So remember that story of me handling owner communications for property managers? This is where it comes from, and the understanding that your clients are used to a very bad, sort of like foundation of communication, which is I'm either getting an email about me having to pay for something I need to fix right now, and you're asking, you know, my money, or I'm getting an email with the owner statement, with that accounting view that I can't really understand and I'm getting just more confused instead of actually getting value from it. [00:39:24] Lior: Plus, it never shows me the full picture because it only shows me, you know the fees that you're charging, maintenance and like the rent, I don't see exactly how my property is doing. So it's really not a value. So like this is the foundation of the relationship. So if you are not providing your clients with additional positive touch points, how can they appreciate what you're doing for them? [00:39:45] Lior: because that's what they get. It's like, it's very the energetic I would say, you know, frequency of, from all these emails and touch points, getting them is negative. Like that's what they get. So what we're also doing, we're doing white labeled email communications as well. Again, it's your logo, it's your profile, it's your name that sends them, for example, a monthly report or update on how much their property is appreciated in value. [00:40:08] Lior: It sends them, you know, some like tips on how to utilize the platform and how to really be on top of things and always be in control of how your properties are really doing. A lot of these things that are just, yeah, just like, it's automated. You don't have to do anything. So like, it just gives them more transparency and feeling of, I'm in control, right? [00:40:28] Lior: Like I'm in control. I know how things are doing, like, and if there's something I need to do,  [00:40:32] Jason: which reduces their anxiety. The number one reason owners are constantly calling you, being interruptive, trying to micromanage you, is because they are anxious. Exactly. If you can reduce their anxiety. By increasing their awareness and their trust in you, it's a no brainer. [00:40:47] Jason: It's going to lower your operational costs dramatically.  [00:40:51] Lior: Exactly. So that's on the owner facing side of things. In the retain package, the team facing sort of like tools, they provide you two main things. There are two products within the retain package that your team is going to use. One is our portfolio manager. [00:41:06] Lior: Think of it as like an asset management dashboard. And the other one is our AI risk manager. So this one, you know, think of it as like your churn, you know, mitigator, and each one of them provides you two aspects of the same owner. The asset management dashboard shows you the health of every owner's property. [00:41:29] Lior: The churn manager or the risk manager shows you the risk of every property of churning. So the asset management dashboard will show you. Right.  [00:41:39] Jason: So the risk of them that like how likely they are to maybe start paying attention to maybe selling it, things like that.  [00:41:45] Lior: Just leaving, yeah. The risk of them leaving. [00:41:47] Lior: So, okay, let's maybe start with that because that's really, you know, one of the coolest products that we have. So the AI Churn Manager technically shows you the churn risk of every owner. Okay. Pretty much the risk of every owner from leaving you with ai, which takes in a lot of data. A lot of data from the communications with that owner to the property performance of that owner, everything that goes into whatever is related to that owner is taken into account and then it shows you the risk, but it also shows you the client value of that owner, meaning how much revenue this owner is generating your company. [00:42:25] Lior: Because we're integrated into a property management software, we know that revenue per unit of every property, so we can tell you how much every owner is worth for you. So the combination of these two elements of the churn risk and the client's value can really give you the ability to prioritize on whole, on who you are going to focus on first, and then you can really focus on the ones who are at high risk and high value. [00:42:50] Lior: And now what are you going to do next? Next, what that AI Retention Manager does for you is it also tells you exactly what to do to retain this owner. For example, let's say you have an owner that has a property that's currently undergoing a renovation, and he also has a mortgage in place, so he's losing money every month. [00:43:10] Lior: He's stressed. He might be thinking to himself, you know, why did I get into this whole thing? You know, I'm just losing money. I'm taking money outta my pocket every month. It's painful. So the AI will notice that and tell you something like, Hey, Jason, because A, B, C, D, what he should do is send this owner a link to his performance, which is one of like the features we have in that investor dashboard is like the forward looking performance of this property, right? [00:43:35] Lior: Send him a link to his performance so he can see that he should hold onto this property and not sell it right, because he's going to make a lot of money and waive two months of management fees. And again, those fees wouldn't cover for the losses, right? But it would show the owner how committed you are to his financial wellbeing. [00:43:54] Lior: So those are the things that the AI can tell you to do based on the retention policy that you will set in the beginning by answering questions that the AI will ask you to understand how you're thinking, what's your approach to retention. And lastly, when you'll see that recommendation, it will also draft you an email or a phone call script with your tone of voice. [00:44:15] Lior: So all you have to do is like literally hit send or just call them and read the script. So that's what the ai retention manager does for you. Okay, cool. And the asset management, you know, dashboard, which is that portfolio manager, that shows you just the overall performance of all your properties. And it can show you, for example, which properties are underperforming, meaning which properties are in negative cash flow position, so that you can reach out to these owners and tell them something like, Hey Jason, I see that this property is really not doing well. [00:44:42] Lior: We tried this, we tried that. We tried this. Why not think of 10 31, exchanging this property. Let's change it to a better property, one that wouldn't have all these headaches that we're going through. Two, it will be able to yield higher cashflow for you because we'll be able to charge a higher rent, you know, property in a better condition, so less expenses, and three, maybe even this will be a property in a better location, so more appreciation, potential, right? So like three wins for you, Mr. Owner, and to me, two wins because I'm getting the commissions maybe from both sides, right? Plus I'm getting a new door that might have a higher revenue per unit. [00:45:21] Lior: Or maybe there's enough faculty or which just more operational  [00:45:24] Jason: cost. Yeah, just easier to deal with. So like it's a winner. Also, maybe you could convert all the shitty properties in your portfolio and the easier properties to deal with.  [00:45:34] Lior: And that's the thing I always tell to all of our clients, think of this as like your blueprint to building the portfolio of your dreams. [00:45:42] Lior: Because it shows you which properties are underperforming. It shows you which properties have a high maintenance income ratio. So you can see which owners are really spending a lot of money on maintenance compared to how much money they're making in rent. And by the way, if, for example, if you have a maintenance division or you're charging markups on renovation, those properties are an additional revenue stream that you cannot reach out to all those owners and tell them. [00:46:05] Lior: Hey, Jason, like we're spending a lot of money on maintenance in the past couple of years. Let's think about, you know, reinvesting some of that cash flow and, you know, improving the property's condition, which is, you know, revenue for your company as well. So that what that, you know, asset management dashboard allows you to do is to see which properties are performing well, which properties are performing, you know, bad. [00:46:25] Lior: And for those that are performing well, you'll see things like, you know, which owners have a lot of equity trapped in their home? So that maybe when interest rates go down a little, you can reach out to them and say, Jason, like, look at this. Remember you said you want to build, you know, to grow your portfolio? [00:46:40] Lior: Interest rates have gone down right now and you have like $300,000 in equity. Let's step into that equity refinance, take the proceeds and buy another property in our area, which we have access to a lot of off market inventory here, which leads us to the grow package now. So that's the retain  [00:46:57] Jason: package that grow package. [00:46:58] Jason: I'll run through it quickly. I want all of my clients listening to this to be using Blanket like I want they all should be. This just is an absolute no brainer.  [00:47:08] Lior: Yeah. We definitely, by the way, it's not like I want to also give a shout out to all of our clients and all the folks that were with us from the start. [00:47:15] Lior: It's not like we are, you know, so smart and we had the solution for everything. This is a lot of hard work and sweat. By listening to all of our client's feedback and what they need the solutions to their like day-to-day problems and needs that they always experience and just never have the opportunity to really do it at scale. [00:47:33] Lior: Right? So, yeah. Back to the growth package. So that was the retained package, just as a summary. Two owner facing, you know, propositions, which is the investor dashboard and the branded owner communications, and two propositions for your team, which is the asset management dashboard and the AI retention manager.  [00:47:51] Lior: On the growth package, you also have two owner facing tools. One is the investment property marketplace, which is also white labeled with your logo. And this marketplace technically shows all your clients because it's closed only to your clients or anybody you invite to it. And we'll cover that in a second. But your clients who are in that marketplace see all the properties, all the off market properties that are for sale in your area. [00:48:16] Lior: So that way whenever they decide to buy another property, that will be a property that you're going to manage for them. So the marketplace. Acts as like this, you know, main tool for number one, capturing owners who want to sell. Remember what we started, we, you know, we want to capture the owners who are selling so we can at least, you know, get that commission or better get that commission and sell it to one of our other clients and retain the management of that unit. [00:48:41] Lior: But it also allows your clients to buy more properties. Now you're probably asking, you know, okay, where do those properties come from? So we source inventory on a national level from the largest wholesalers, turnkey providers, home builders for sale by owner feeds, anything that's off market, we are pretty much sourcing it across the country  [00:49:03] Jason: Is Blanket using investors that they can list their properties in this as well?  [00:49:09] Lior: So your clients, whenever they list their property, they will be at the top. They are what we call the exclusive properties category. So they are at the top. [00:49:17] Lior: We are pushing them always front face and center. They're the first ones for all your other clients to see, to increase the chances of them buying that from your clients and retaining the management of the unit. So all those properties that we have are all off market and. Yeah. Then this allows you not only to give it to your clients, but you can also invite anybody you want to it. [00:49:37] Lior: So maybe you have a list of leads that you bought in the past, you know, some cold leads or whatever. Or maybe you have friends and family that are interested in buying a property and working with you, or maybe you're going to like a BiggerPockets, you know, meetup or conference with investors or whatever. [00:49:51] Lior: They're always on the hunt for off market properties. So what you can do, you can invite them to the marketplace as a prospect. So like as a visitor, and once you invite them. And they log in, it appears as a prospect lead that you can then call them and say, Hey, Jason just saw you logged into our marketplace. [00:50:07] Lior: Hope that you liked it. By the way, if you have other properties in our area, I would love to send you some, you know, special friend, you know, discount for our property management services. And now you have a different conversation that is based on, you know, what your brand can offer them. So that's the marketplace. [00:50:24] Lior: And as you can see, the marketplace, technically what it does, it generates you leads, buyer leads, seller leads, prospect leads, et cetera. And what we provide is also sort of like a CRM feature that allows you just to keep track of all those leads, engage with them, or integrate with your existing CRM. [00:50:40] Lior: So folks might be using different systems we can integrate and push all those leads to your system. And lastly, the last feature that is also used by your team, by your BDM, or by yourself if you're starting out, is what we call our referral management system. So this system takes in all the agents in your area and pulls in information about them from the MLS and many other sources, and shows you, for every agent in your market, how many transactions they sold in the past two years, how many years in business, what's the average price of the properties they're selling, their contact details, their website, everything you need to actually start increasing or expanding your referral network that you have already in Blanket. [00:51:21] Lior: So what you do then. You could start reaching out to them, sending them emails from the Blanket system. And whenever they respond, you get on a call, you offer them, you know, to partner up and pay them referral fees for any client they're sending. And then you are giving them also a user in the system. And that's one of the interesting things. Today, agents are struggling, especially buyer's agents, which are normally, you know, the younger ones in every brokerage because the listing agents are normally the brokers and the most experienced ones. [00:51:48] Lior: So like buyers agents are having a hard time today with interest rates and with everything that's happening. So you can position yourself as their exclusive off market inventory partner, which they can leverage to be winning with their potential clients. So that way whenever you invite them as a partner, you're giving them access to off market inventory that they can't find anywhere else. [00:52:13] Lior: And that way whenever they bring on clients, they're sending them through the system and with a click of a button directly to you, you get those leads. They get paid through the system with that referral fee that you've set and agreed to with them, whether it's $500, 250, whatever. And the cool thing about it is that it has also automated updates to the agent every time one of the referrals inquired about a property they want to buy or to sell, assuming you promise them, you know, to return that lead back to them when it's selling. So that way you are making them happy. Those referrals are happy and you are able to really grow, you know, your referral network with everything within your ecosystem. [00:52:51] Lior: And be that center of the ecosystem, be that asset manager. Nice. So that's the goal package as well.  [00:52:57] Jason: That's super awesome. So cool. This Blanket sounds like an awesome tool. You've shown it to me. I think it's really a brilliant idea. I think every property manager should be using it. It's a no-brainer. [00:53:08] Jason: How do people get started with you? How do people get in touch?  [00:53:12] Lior: So you can either visit our website: Blankethomes.com and just schedule a quick, you know, 15 minute discovery call. You know, just listen to what we can offer so we wouldn't waste your time. And just understand if it's the right thing for you. [00:53:26] Lior: And then you can either just, you know, send me a LinkedIn message, send me a dm, pretty much on every social media platform. I'm not really responding very fast. And we could just get on a call. And I also invite anybody that wants you to just, you know, even if they're not interested in Blanket, right? [00:53:41] Lior: Like if you're thinking to yourself maybe it's too much for me. Maybe it's too expensive, I don't have the bandwidth right now, but you want to brainstorm about, you know, how to be more investor, you know, investment manager mindset as like guided property manager, how to be more of an asset manager. [00:53:56] Lior: This is my passion, this is what I've been doing my entire life. Like, if you want to just brainstorm, shoot me a message. Like I can talk about this for hours, so, you know, I'll be happy to help anybody that needs that. Even if you're not a Blanket client, again, you don't have to be a partner of ours to really just, you know, get inspired and, you know, learn from other people's mistakes. [00:54:14] Lior: And we've done quite a few.  [00:54:16] Jason: Awesome Lior, thanks for being a guest here on the DoorGrow Show podcast appreciate you hanging out with us. So, if you are watching this and you felt stuck or stagnant and want to take your property management business to the next level, reach out to us at DoorGrow, also join our free Facebook community. [00:54:33] Jason: It's just for property management business owners at doorgrowclub.com. And if you've found this even a little bit helpful, don't forget to subscribe and leave us a review. We'd really appreciate it. Until next time, remember, the slowest path to growth is to do it alone, so let's grow together. Bye everyone. 

As property managers, you know how important communication is. Building solid relationships and creating trust is crucial in the industry, especially when trying to bring on new clients and doors. In this episode of the Property Management Growth Show, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Sam Wakefield from Close it Now to talk about how you can level up your sales game to close more deals at a higher price point. You'll Learn [00:54] Vendor and Property Manager Relationships [09:43] Why You Attract Cheapo Clients [15:33] Building Trust in Sales [21:14] Shifting Perception: It's Not A, It's B [27:43] Learning to Improve Your Sales at DoorGrow Live 2025 Quotables “Truly all that sells is just communication.” “The second you start to develop a trend in your life, look internally because you are attracting exactly who you are.” “If we don't build the right culture, it's on us as a business owner.” “As business owners, we want to not give up big chunks of our life for just money. We want to be able to have something scalable.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] Sam: A lot of times property management companies think all the companies are the same, so they're looking for maybe cheaper, whoever's cheapest, a cheaper price. [00:00:07] Sam: But then what they get is a company that doesn't communicate and doesn't show up when they say they're going to, and it's really the old adage, you get what you pay for.  [00:00:14] Jason: All right. I am trying a new platform today. This is Jason Hull and I am a property management growth expert. If you're not familiar with me, I help grow and scale property management companies and I am really good at that. And so our company's DoorGrow and we are the world leaders of growing and scaling property management businesses. [00:00:35] Jason: I've helped thousands of property managers do that. And today my guest is Sam Wakefield. Hanging out here with Sam. Sam, welcome to the show.  [00:00:44] Sam: Thanks for having me on, man. I'm glad to be here.  [00:00:46] Jason: Hey, good to have you. So, I'm really excited to get into this. We had some really nice dialogue back and forth. You coach. [00:00:54] Jason: Well, I'll let you tell. What group, category of people do you coach and you help with them with sales and closing more deals, so.  [00:01:01] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So we do sales training and basically sales systems, whole operation systems within companies, but mostly sales focused for home services. So everything from HVAC, plumbing, electrical, and then even outside of that. Garage doors, or you name it. If someone improves a home, then we help the communication side of all of those companies.  [00:01:27] Jason: Got it. So in my industry, property management people would call those vendors. That's usually what they call them. They're like, "these are the vendors." And so we thought it was fun. I went on your podcast, we had this really fun dialogue. [00:01:39] Jason: I highly recommend you go check out Sam's episode with Jason Hull and go check that out. We were going back and forth because we had done a survey each to our audiences, like what's frustrating about HVAC companies and what's frustrating about property management companies. Right. And just seeing the disconnect that existed there. [00:01:56] Jason: Which was interesting. So, before we get into this, I want to read a quick message from our sponsor. This episode's sponsored by KRS SmartBooks. Do you have properties manage, and zero time for bookkeeping headaches? KRS SmartBooks is your secret weapon. They specialize in finances for busy property managers like you, with 15 plus years of real estate knowhow and skills in AppFolio, Yardi, and more imagine monthly reports magically appearing, and zero accounting stress. Sound good? Head to krsbooks.com to book your free discovery call, integrity, quality, and a dash of bookkeeping brilliance, that's KRS SmartBooks, and that's K as in Kansas, R as in Rogers, S as in Sam. Sam. All right, so cool. Now let's get into this. [00:02:45] Jason: So we're going to talk about closing deals, but why don't you give us my audience a little bit of background. How did you get into sales and then starting your own company, helping people with sales, and like, how'd you how did Close it Now come to be?  [00:03:00] Sam: Yeah, for sure. Thanks for that question. So, I've spent almost 20 years now in home services. [00:03:05] Sam: Most of my time has been in HVAC. I've done solar. I've done a lot of different trades over the years and, you know, so I launched the Close it Now company in 2019 because I really just recognized a place where there was not a lot of modern training because truly all that sells is just communication. [00:03:26] Sam: You know, it's how do we communicate clearer and in a way where we can educate so somebody can understand, one, what we're talking about, and two, why they should care and how it's going to make a difference in their life. So at the essence of that, so I was looking for some more modern training for my people at my company that I had at the time, and I didn't find anything out there. [00:03:48] Sam: So I just said, well, now we have a space for, you know, I have communication skills. I can train people. So that's when I launched the company in 2019 and so much of my career built up to that point of, and specifically how it affects here and why I'm here today. You know, I've worked with so many property management companies and individuals across 20 years of doing this. Yeah. So I've definitely learned a lot of best practices and a lot of the things not to do, you know? Got it. I all own my mistakes as well as, you know, coming across maybe property managers that I wouldn't work with again. Right. Yeah. So from all of that experience, you know, I started the training company, so I work with those home service companies to communicate better. [00:04:33] Sam: You know, a lot of it is, you know, of course, working directly with homeowners. But also there's a huge portion of all of those companies that, you know, rely on it and need property management companies to, you know, really help them stay in business and in turn they can turn around and, you know, help those property management companies to efficiently take care of properties. [00:04:58] Sam: But there's always seems to be this kind of struggle of, you know, that back and forth. So that's obviously why we're here today is a big part of that. But that's some of my history. I've been doing it 20 years. I started Close it Now six years or in, coming up on... yeah, April this year, next month is six years anniversary. [00:05:16] Sam: Nice. Of the company. And it's been a fun ride and we've definitely helped lots and lots of organizations to you know, to grow in a way.  [00:05:24] Jason: You're helping them close it now. All right. Yeah. Got it. All right. So you're just, you're helping these vendors close more deals, right? [00:05:31] Jason: So, property managers, I think would love to hear. You're on the other side of this relationship between property managers and vendors. What have you seen and what's the general feedback that you're noticing of the property management industry? What's kind of the vendor's perspective? [00:05:46] Jason: Because I know property managers, they get frustrated with vendors, right? They're like, "oh, the vendors like say you need something when you don't and like they don't like, it's difficult to reach them or this or whatever." Right. What are some of the complaints and gripes about property management companies? [00:06:03] Sam: Yeah. Complaints and gripes about property management companies. One of the big ones is, a lot of it is kind of the same thing is lack of communication. Okay. That's always one of the biggest complaints that comes up is, you know, we will get, you know, say someone, a property manager will call in for us to go evaluate a property. [00:06:21] Sam: We'll take an air conditioning issue or something like that, so we'll show up and then we're trying to call ahead. There's no clear information was given on who to call ahead to. Then we show up to the appointment, maybe the tenant's there, maybe not. A lot of times they're not there. [00:06:36] Sam: Okay. Then we can get ahold of the property manager to even get in the place. So now we're like dancing around in the circle of, okay, who do we contact? You get frustrated, move on to the next call, then the property manager calls and "Well, why'd you leave? Somebody was there." [00:06:50] Sam: Well, nobody was there. And so all of this just seems to happen very often. [00:06:55] Sam: Too often. Yeah. So it creates a stereotype. When the stereotype is created, that means of course there's a reason for it. Yeah. And so this is one of the big ones is the lack of communication. And I know that I've heard that the other direction as well. But so that's one of the things I hear the most. [00:07:11] Jason: Yeah. Got it. Yeah, so I'm sure when a vendor finds a property manager that does communicate effectively that there's clarity in that communication happening, and they've got good systems in place. The tenant's there, the tenant understands what's going on. Everybody's informed. Then those can be really great relationships to have. [00:07:34] Sam: Absolutely. Yeah. Those are, you know, the last the last organization I was at, I was with them, I was a sales manager and trainer for six years there. And I went through about 18 different property management companies to find two to three that were worth working with. Wow. And that was, you know, just sadly. We were always open to when a property management company came to us and we're like, "Hey, we, you know, we need you to do some work. We're looking for a new vendor." We're like, "sure. Absolutely. We'll try you out as well as you're trying us out." Right. But sadly, you know, the two or three that we did find great relationships with. They were fantastic relationships because yeah, we, you know, part of my ethics is our team was like, we will show up on time no matter what. [00:08:19] Sam: Right? We always do what we say. We will never, you know, recommend something that's not verifiable from our, you know, from our testing. We're not going to just guess at this because we're not guessing with anybody's, you know? Yeah. Investment. And at the same time when we, you know, say we're going to do the work, we do the work, and we show up to do the work, we say we're going to. [00:08:43] Sam: So that was my ethics statement I always led with. And then basically I would ask the property management company, can I expect the same thing from you guys? Right? And sure enough, the second that we met in the middle and said, yes, this is how we want to do business, those relationships were always the very best ones because sure, were we a few more dollars than the other contractor down the street? Sure. Yes. But we showed up when we said we were going to and we did the right work right the first time. And so, right. That's a big part of that disconnect, I think, is it seems like so many you know, a lot of times property management companies think all the companies are the same, so they're looking for maybe cheaper, whoever's cheapest, a cheaper price. [00:09:22] Sam: But then what they get is a company that doesn't communicate and doesn't show up when they say they're going to, and. It's really the old adage, you get what you pay for.  [00:09:30] Jason: You know, property managers have the same sort of problem is that a lot of people that are looking for a property manager are just looking for the cheapest price. [00:09:38] Jason: And they hate that. They're like, "we're not all the same." Right. So I, yeah, I think it's really important. I think this is dictated by the morals, the ethics, and the values of the business owner. It's always a top down thing. And so if the business owner is a cheapo, they attract cheapo clients and they deal with vendors through this cheapo lens, and this is where there's going to be a lot of mess and a lot of communication issues, and a lot of times the business owner, and this goes for any business and any industry, has a blind spot to the fact that they're cheap. But they're, you know, you're a cheapo if you're the person that's always looking for the stupid coupon code every time you buy everything online, you're always like hunting for that like. I don't have time to do that. [00:10:21] Jason: Like that's a massive waste of my time to go find, save 10% on some stupid a hundred dollars thing online, right? Right. Like, Ooh, I'm searching around. Right. Oh, I saved $10 even though I could have made a hundred thousand dollars. Like if I just like built something awesome, right? So I think there's a mindset issue is that these property managers or vendor business owners are not valuing their time enough. [00:10:45] Jason: If you value your time, you value other people's time. You then show up on time. You then like try to make sure, like your schedule is tight, you want to make sure your schedule is full. Like you, because you value your time and you feel that it's important. And if you really value your time enough as a person, you get things like assistance. [00:11:03] Jason: You get team members, like you get support because your time is so valuable that you want to go buy other people's time because it's less valuable than your time. Right, and this is how we scale our businesses over time is we are buying other people's time that are like they're willing to trade and give up their life chunks of their life for money. [00:11:24] Jason: And as business owners, we want to not give up big chunks of our life for just money. We want to be able to have something scalable. And so I think there's a mindset thing that we have to not be cheap. We have to operate with integrity, and then our team members need to have these values instilled in them, and if we don't build the right culture, it's on us as a business owner. [00:11:45] Jason: And if we don't build the right culture, we then don't have longevity in our business. We don't get return business, we don't get return clients. We don't get to have that really good vendor to continue to work with. We don't get to have that property owner continue to want to work with us, right? [00:12:00] Jason: Because we have showcased that we are not on top of things, or that we don't have the right values or that we don't have healthy mindset. And so I feel like. At the foundation of everything. It always comes back to mindset. A lot of times  [00:12:13] Sam: I a hundred percent agree with that. It, you know, it's funny that you're kind of started this conversation going down this path. [00:12:19] Sam: This is something that's been a very basically a soapbox for me, a big hot button. Yeah. You know, when I'm coaching... [00:12:26] Sam: jump on that soapbox, Sam. Let's go.  [00:12:27] Sam: Yeah. When I'm coaching and training people lately, especially at this last week especially... yeah. You know, I'm training people with sales and that type of focus, and they, of course, people always come to me, "Hey, how do I overcome these sales objections?" [00:12:43] Sam: You know, somebody says, "I want to get three bids, or somebody says, your price is too high, I want to shop around, or I need to think about it." Yeah. And instead of just going straight to, "well, here's the word track and how to handle these objections." Yeah. We always start with: anytime that you find a trend in your life, [00:13:00] Sam: so if you're getting the same consistent objection, say somebody's getting every single time they get to the end of their appointment and the homeowner or whoever they're talking to says, "I want to think about it." It's like the second you start to develop a trend in your life, look internally because you are attracting exactly who you are. [00:13:17] Sam: I would be willing to bet that person does the same thing when they shop. So then no wonder you're getting every single one of your clients is telling you, "I want to think about it." Or if when you shop, do you ask for say, "oh, I've got to get some three bids on this thing. I got to look around." Yeah. Well, no wonder the people you're selling to always have to get three bids because we attract who we are. Yeah. And it starts right here in the mind. And it's incredible how that works.  [00:13:43] Jason: Yeah. because if we're anxious, if we have that energetic sort of anxiety of that, like things are, it's expensive, and we go into that trying to sell it to somebody. Then they can feel that and we present it differently. And so we're like, "here's the price." And like, yeah, and it's worth it. And they can just, there's so many little subtle clues they pick up on that, Hey, this seems a little high. And because sometimes like if you're presenting to somebody and they're not what I call a cheapo, there's three types of buyers, cheapos, normals, and premiums I call them. [00:14:16] Jason: And normals are like, you typically like 60%. They're like the majority, 61%. The smallest group are usually the premium buyers, supposedly. But the idea is this: if you're a premium buyer and I present a price and I'm not even going to like flinch telling you about it, I'm like, "yeah, we've got this and this is what it costs and this," and they're going to go, "oh, this person feels really confident." [00:14:36] Jason: And it's just energetically how we present it. There's no like, "Hey, I'm trying to prep you for this price, you know, reveal because it's going to hurt a little bit." Right. Or if they just have the confidence and they know they're expensive, they might even just say, "Hey, we're one of the most expensive, but we're also one of the best. Let me tell you about your options." Right? So maybe they start with a pre-frame like that, but either way, they have this confidence that they know they have value and that it's worth it, and then they present it like that, then people would go, oh, okay, but if you have that anxiety deep down related to price and you know, you're this person if you're always looking for the coupon code or the discount code or you're trying to find the cheapest way to do something, then you've got a bit of that going on. [00:15:21] Jason: Because that's your identity. And so I've noticed this. Like in order to get people to be better salespeople, I can't just give them tactics. I have to give them identity. And so, and this is why my greatest sales hack, I call the Golden Bridge Formula. It's like it's the most authentic way to sell, which is your personal why connected to the business why connected to the prospect's why. Because we always trust motives. And the default assumption in sales, if I don't know your motive and you're trying to sell to me, is you want my money. [00:15:54] Sam: Right.  [00:15:54] Jason: And if I think that's your only motive is you want my money and you're willing to do whatever it takes to get that, then you're probably maybe even willing to be unethical in order to get that might be the assumption. [00:16:05] Jason: Right? So that's kind of the default assumption in sales. And so to correct that, if I tell somebody, "Hey. I'm Jason Hull. My personal why is to inspire others to love true principles. And so what that means is I love sharing what works and learning what works and teaching to others. I would do that for free, for fun, and so I created DoorGrow and our why at DoorGrow is to transform property management business owners and their businesses. [00:16:27] Jason: And so if our whole belief system is around helping people transform their businesses. So that allows me to basically feed my addiction to learning, coaches, masterminds, books, whatever, and turn around and be able to share what's working with others. And that's just fun for me. So I have a business that basically fulfills my lifestyle and allows me to have fun and do what I want to do. [00:16:51] Jason: And you, Mr. Property management, business owner, who I'm maybe selling to, want to grow your business. And so our interests are in alignment. My business is the bridge that connects your why to my why. We both get what we want. It's the ultimate win-win, right? Everybody wins. And so I've been able to take really terrible salespeople that are really bad at selling, and I just get them clear on their own identity. [00:17:14] Jason: Mm-hmm. Who they are, why they do what they do, and have them relate that to people and then people trust them. And sales and deals happened at the speed of trust.  [00:17:22] Sam: Oh my gosh, I love this so much. It's insanely powerful too when I'm teaching people how to do just introductions, you know? A super quick formula too for the property managers out there that are listening to that, even if you're property manager, you have to get good at sales. [00:17:38] Sam: Yeah, you have to be good at communication to be able to bring more doors into your portfolio. And so the way you know, a really easy formula for those homeowners when you're having that conversation, first of all, they've got to know who they're talking to. Yeah. You know, this belief, identity, you know, matrix that I actually I love to call, I just did a keynote. [00:17:59] Sam: It's funny for everybody listening. It's almost like Jason and I have read each other's notes, but we haven't. Just did a keynote, well that's maybe a month ago in Minnesota, that the entire talk was your thoughts, create your belief about yourself, your totally belief about yourself creates your identity, and then your identity creates your outcomes. [00:18:16] Sam: Yeah. And, but we have to go back and start with those thoughts. And so, but a simple, easy formula for property managers out there having this conversation is first of all, start asking permission for things. Yes. We can't just tell, right? If we can ask it as a question, ask it as a question. [00:18:36] Sam: So ask permission, like, "Hey, before we get started, do you mind if I take a quick minute and just introduce you to our company and myself."  [00:18:44] Sam: yeah.  [00:18:45] Sam: And so first of all, anytime a conversation starts, there's always this period of icebreaking, right? Yeah. Anytime anything new is introduced in anyone's environment, there's always stiffness until that moment of rapport happens and we relax a little bit. [00:19:00] Sam: Yeah. So taking a couple of minutes to just. "Hey, before we get started, do you mind if I introduce the company and a little bit about myself? Would that be all right?" Yes. So permission to it and then just take a few minutes because I mean, so many times we'll go through this crazy presentation and then we're asking somebody to buy from us and they don't even know who we are. [00:19:21] Sam: We never took the time to even introduce ourselves. Right.  [00:19:24] Jason: Yeah.  [00:19:24] Sam: Or they don't know thing about the company.  [00:19:25] Jason: Trying to immediately shove the product or service down their throat.  [00:19:28] Sam: Yeah. No wonder they need to think about it. They don't even know who you are. And so we introduce that first. [00:19:34] Sam: It's huge. And to just getting into the things. So that's the flow. It's like, okay, now that you know a little bit about us, tell us a little bit about you. What are you looking for? Right. So then you start that discovery process, and I'm sure you trained this but the discovery process is everything. [00:19:51] Sam: We have to understand the motive behind why they want to do things. Somebody just says, "Hey, I'm looking for a property manager." Okay, great. That's one thing. "Why do you would need a property manager? What are you trying to solve? What do we want to accomplish by having a property manager for your property?" [00:20:09] Sam: So we find out, what are the pain points? What are the issues that they're wanting to overcome? And then from there, we can create a, you know, craft a conversation around it. But until we know that, we're just stabbing in the dark and just guessing it. Yeah. Well, hopefully this will work.  [00:20:23] Jason: Right. Yeah. If we just jump right to offering solutions when we don't even ask what they need it's not very effective. [00:20:30] Jason: And then they're going to have a ton of objections.  [00:20:32] Sam: Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But yeah, that's the some of the complaints we have are the communication and the other one is just not responding once we find solutions, then give them to the property manager. [00:20:45] Sam: And then it's like ghosting for who knows how long until finally somebody gets back. And so that's the other side of the communication is not getting resolution once we actually, you know, we can do this work, but we're not going to sit around here all day to wait to get it approved. We have other appointments. [00:21:02] Sam: So do we want to reschedule?  [00:21:03] Jason: It's treating the vendor like they're high value, they're going to treat you like you're high value and they're going to prioritize you. And so it really is a mutual respect relationship that needs to be built. So, Sam, I also want to bring up to our audience, you are going to be coming [00:21:19] Jason: to speak at DoorGrow Live. Yeah. And you're going to be teaching some really cool stuff. Could you just touch on real quick what you're going to be sharing at this because I wanted to come bring you to expose my clients and my audience to what you're going to be sharing and maybe you can get some people pumped up for DoorGrow Live, so. [00:21:38] Sam: Absolutely. Yeah. So thank you for the invite as well. I'm super excited to be speaking for DoorGorw Live. It's my passion, in fact to be able to help people in their daily lives, especially in conversations like this, to make it easy. I am such a firm believer that sales should be easy. If it's not easy, we're overcomplicating it. And so what we're going to be talking about at the event is I'm going to give some really simple keys to better communication so people actually not only listen, but they understand what you're saying and, more importantly, why should they care? [00:22:18] Sam: So we're going to talk about something called, the benefit lens. We're going to talk about some easy word substitutions. We're not going to be learning scripts or anything. We're going to be, we're going to show any really easy ways to get immediate buy-in to what our conversation is. Nice. And how to recruit people to be raving fans and be on board. [00:22:38] Sam: And how to ask and get referrals because that's huge in...  [00:22:44] Sam: absolutely.  [00:22:44] Sam: ...something like a property management. If every third door you added also added another one from a referral, what would that do to your business? Yeah, absolutely. So not just asking for referrals, but actually asking in a way where actually get them. [00:22:57] Jason: Right. Yeah. If you're getting enough referrals, one, because you have a good reputation, you're doing a good job, but also because you have an intention and you're asking appropriately, you create this kind of virus of growth in your business where it's multiplying. [00:23:13] Jason: Every client becomes more clients.  [00:23:16] Sam: Yep. Absolutely. In fact, we can do a quick little as an example of some of the things we're going to cover. Are you open to doing a quick little role play with me on...  [00:23:24] Sam: all right. Let's do it.  [00:23:25] Sam: Some of the conversation here. Yeah. I love role play.  [00:23:28] Sam: Let's have fun.  [00:23:29] Sam: Yeah, for sure. [00:23:30] Sam: So I'm property manager. So before we do, give me a quick little context of what is a premium price property manager and what is like a middle range property manager. And so I'll know what I'm working with here. [00:23:44] Jason: Oh yeah. Usually our clients have three different price points for that reason. So, perfect. But let's say like, real typical in the marketplace is 10% is pretty normal. Okay? And this is not what we recommend. because our clients close more deals more easily at a higher price point. [00:23:59] Jason: So we have some special pricing models, but let's say 10%. Premium, maybe 12%, and the lower would maybe be like 8%.  [00:24:08] Sam: Got it. Got it. Perfect. Alright, so I'm the project manager. So I'm going to be a premium 12%. Yeah. So what we're going to do in this conversation, I'm going to ask for the business and you're going to give me a little bit of a price flinch with, "well, the other guy was only 10%." [00:24:23] Sam: Okay. And so we'll show a quick, easy way to handle that. All right. In a way that will make sense for everybody. So, alright, Jason, so, sounds like everything that you've talked about, can you see how all the things we do will take care of the concerns that you have? [00:24:38] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. Sounds great.  [00:24:40] Sam: Awesome. Perfect. So the next steps to get moving is you know, so we're just 12% of the monthly as for us to be able to take care of all of that. And this will just need a quick authorization on this form here and we can get started right away.  [00:24:55] Jason: Ooh, okay. Well, I was expecting, you know, I talked to a company down the street, they were like 10%, which seems to be a bit more normal. [00:25:04] Jason: I don't know.  [00:25:04] Sam: More normal?  [00:25:07] Jason: I've talked to a couple companies and a lot of them all do it at 10%. Could, like, is it possible you could do it at 10%?  [00:25:13] Sam: Oh, gotcha. So listen, I mean, so we were just 12%, but listen, we're not 2% higher or 2% more expensive. We're 2% better. Can I explain to you why that is? [00:25:25] Jason: Sure.  [00:25:26] Sam: Absolutely.  [00:25:27] Sam: So at that point, as a great company, you're going to have a hit list of all of the reasons why you're better than everybody else, and what makes you that premium company. I like it. So the minute we get that permission question in of, "Hey, we're not 2% more expensive, we're 2% higher, we're 2% better." [00:25:43] Sam: Then the permission question is, "can I show you why, or can I show you how?" And they say "Yes." Then we're going to, "okay, so what we do, it's..." never talk bad about the competition. Sure. But it's always with that perspective. "So what we do is this, and what we do is this, and what we do is this. We're always going to have the availability to be in contact, you know, 24/7 or you know, whatever all of the benefits is. [00:26:10] Sam: We're going through this huge benefit list. Yeah. And then when, once we, and it works like magic, once you get to about 10 or 12 things, especially when you know, those first 10 or 12 things are things the other companies don't do. Yeah. So many times that person will go, "you know what? You're right. You know what? You're right. Let's just go ahead and do it." Yeah.  [00:26:31] Jason: I mean, you go through those things you say, "so does that make sense why maybe we're 2% better?" And they're going to be like, "yeah."  [00:26:38] Jason: You've got agreement.  [00:26:39] Sam: Cool. Absolutely. And the other thing to do in this conversation, and this is really powerful too, so, you know, we'll take you know, what's a, what's the average rent that we'd be taking that percentage off of? [00:26:50] Jason: Let's say 2000 bucks.  [00:26:51] Sam: So 2000 bucks. That's what I was going to use. "So we're talking about 2% difference. So we're looking at $40 a month or $10 a week. Is it worth it to you for $10 a week to potentially fight the headache of, you know, your property management company not responding when you need them to respond, your tenants being really unhappy, the tenants turning over and over, for, I mean, $10 a week. Is it worth it to you for that?"  [00:27:22] Jason: Yeah.  [00:27:23] Sam: So if, I mean, if you're willing to roll the dice and take that chance, then of course you could do what you want. But if you want it done right and done once, so you're headache free and you're not going to have to, because the reason you hire a property manager is to be hands off. [00:27:35] Sam: Right? Yeah. Perfect. That's why what, that's what sets us apart. Next to any of the other companies around.  [00:27:43] Jason: Got it. So hypothetical property manager, Sam here, like believes. You can tell by listening to him, he believes in what he is selling. He believes he's worth that 12%. He believes he's worth that value, and I love that reframe. [00:27:58] Jason: One of the NLP hacks I teach clients is, it's not a, it's b, and he's like, "it's not that we're expensive or higher price, it's that we're 2% better." And so you're saying this is how you are looking at it. Here's how I want you to look at it. And that's a really cool correction. I love that right there. [00:28:16] Jason: Very powerful.  [00:28:17] Sam: The other part of that too is when you take, we're not talking about the total monthly, you know, we're talking about what's 12% or 10%? We're talking about 2% difference. Yeah. Is it worth it to you for a 2% difference to take the chance on having to deal with this, having to manage your own projects, having the headache, having the you know, the angry tenants or we don't have that problem. [00:28:42] Sam: And here's proof: review, testimony. Other people in the area, for people that use us just like you guys.  [00:28:49] Jason: Yeah. Awesome. Perfect. And you're going to share some really cool stuff I know at DoorGrow Live. I'm excited, man. Me too.  [00:28:56] Sam: Let's just tip of the iceberg. [00:28:57] Jason: For a salesman to be able to like build a coaching business, teaching sales like these are the best in the world at sales, and so I'm really excited to have you come. I've sold millions and millions of dollars of stuff. I love, I'm always learning more about sales, like this is something you can always continually learn more, so I love that little reframe. [00:29:17] Jason: That's a good one. I'm excited to hear what else you have to share. This is going to be really awesome. And if you're interested, go to doorgrowlive.com and get your tickets. Get your tickets. Our theme this year is innovating the future of property management, and we are bringing future ideas. [00:29:32] Jason: I'm going to be going over hybrid pricing, a new pricing model for property managers. This is the future. We're going to be sharing our DoorGrow hiring system. This is the future of how you're going to need to do hiring, so you're not making mistakes with hires, we're helping a lot of people replace their entire team. [00:29:48] Jason: So anyway, DoorGrow Live is going to be really freaking cool. So, yeah, and it's a holistic conference as well. We're bringing people from outside the industry, people that are related to different things. I've got a biohacking expert. We've got different things just to optimize your life as an entrepreneur and to make you better at what you do. [00:30:05] Jason: So this is going to be really cool. So, well, Sam anything else we should touch on?  [00:30:10] Sam: You know, there's so much we could cover.  [00:30:12] Jason: There's a lot. We'll save it for DoorGrow Live. How can people that, if they're listening, they're like, I'm a vendor, or I've got this, or I could really use Sam's help. [00:30:21] Jason: How can they get ahold of you?  [00:30:23] Sam: Yeah, absolutely. They can go to, of course the website is closeitnow.net. That's NET so closeitnow.net. They can email me directly, sam@closeitnow.net. On an Instagram at @therealcloseitnow. Okay. Or basically search Close it Now anywhere and I pop up all over the place. [00:30:44] Sam: All right. I'm kind of everywhere on social media and on the Googles at this point. All right.  [00:30:50] Jason: All right, well we're going to close this show now, so appreciate you coming on, Sam. It's been great having you. And for those that are watching, listening, if you could use some help from DoorGrow reach out to us. [00:31:00] Jason: You can check us out at doorgrow.com. We are the world leaders at coaching and scaling property management companies. And so if you are dealing with operational challenges, team challenges, hiring challenges, or you just don't know the right strategies for adding doors or business development, we can help you with all of that. [00:31:18] Jason: So reach out to us, check us out at doorgrow.com and until next time, to our mutual growth. Bye everyone. 

As a property manager, you're familiar with the uncomfortable shuffle when trying to ensure utilities are set up correctly at move-in. What if you could make the whole process easier? In this episode of the Property Management Growth Show, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with the founder of Utility Profit, Zac Maurais, to discuss wires, pipes, and signals: Everything you wish you knew about home utilities. You'll Learn [01:48] How Zac Built a $100 Million Business [07:38] Solving Utility Challenges with a Streamlined Tool [15:54] Using Utility Profit to Make Extra Profit [23:26] Integrations and Frequently Asked Questions [30:20] Take Action on The Things You're Avoiding! Quotables “I think the secret to being smart is just being willing to look stupid.” “Done is better than perfect.” “Have a bias for action. Get your hands dirty. Do it yourself.” “ Whatever it is that you think that's holding you back, just start trying to do it.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript [00:00:00] Zac: It's almost like we're like taking the Yellow Pages and then putting it online or something. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a wacky problem that we're solving there.  [00:00:08] Jason: So you're single handedly bringing the utility space into the future. So, All right. [00:00:16] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow Property Managers to the Property Management Growth Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur and you want to add doors, you want to make a difference, you want to increase revenue, you want to help others, you want to impact lives, and you're interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager and you just don't know it. DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. [00:00:47] Jason: You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bs, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. [00:01:13] Jason: I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show and I'm hanging out today with Zac Maurais. Did I say it right?  [00:01:25] Jason: That's right, yes.  [00:01:26] Jason: Hey. All right, cool. It's great to have you on the show. So Zac we're going to be chatting today about wires, pipes, and signals, everything you wish you knew about home utilities. [00:01:38] Jason: I think this will be interesting to our listeners because, you know, we get into this stuff as property management people. So, so Zac before we get into that though, give us a little backstory on you. How'd you get into being an entrepreneur? When did you first figure that out, that you maybe were one and then we can get into why you started this business so that you've got going and tell us, tell everybody about it. [00:01:58] Jason: Cool.  [00:02:00] Zac: Let's do it. Yeah. So, quick intro myself, I live here in Austin, Texas. I've been an entrepreneur now for better part of a decade and a half. Right out of college I started a business it was actually a food delivery business called Favor. We ended up scaling that business to having 50,000 delivery drivers in the state of Texas. [00:02:22] Zac: So it was the second largest employer in the state. And over the course of building it up over a couple of years, we were doing over a hundred million dollars of food sales a year. So sizable company and we sold that to HEB grocery and yeah.  [00:02:38] Jason: And if people don't know, HEB I'm in the Austin area, I'm up in Round Rock. [00:02:41] Jason: But if people don't know HEB. HEB consistently wins the best grocery store awards like in America every year. Like it's always winning.  [00:02:51] Zac: It's kind of amazing. I mean, they are an institution. There's so many small towns across Texas where the only show in town, I would kind of say it's akin to like a Walmart or something like that for a national brand that people would be more familiar with. [00:03:04] Zac: Family run business, been around for a hundred years. So it's cool that it had joined forces with Favor. And learned a lot from doing that company. I mean, at the time that we sold it, we had over 140 corporate employees, designers and software engineers and business intelligence people and salespeople. [00:03:24] Zac: So I'm right there with you, Jason, where I like growth. I like growing things and learning about business and learning about new categories. So as I sold it, I was looking for the next thing to do.  [00:03:35] Jason: So people are clear, Favor, and you can correct me if I'm wrong, but Favor competes with like Instacart and like some of these, it's like a delivery service. [00:03:44] Zac: That's right. So the way that the service worked was, it was like an on demand. It was part of the on demand delivery kind of thing that was happening. The gig economy, you know, people will probably remember Lyft coming out and Uber. There wasn't one for delivery of kind of like fast casual food or groceries yet. [00:04:02] Zac: And we brought that into the market. We had first mover.  [00:04:05] Jason: Oh yeah. So yeah, it's kind of like Uber Eats and, you know, these kind of things.  [00:04:08] Zac: Exactly. So you could tap a button, request a Favor, and then someone would go shopping for you, go pick up some tacos or yeah, run at the grocery store or something like that and bring it to you in 45 minutes or less. [00:04:20] Jason: Got it. And is Favor just a Texas thing?  [00:04:23] Zac: At one point in time we tried to go national expansion, but it was a bit of a wartime thing that was going on. Yeah. A lot of VC dollars getting put in. And we had a very strong Texas brand. We had over a million people in Texas using it. [00:04:37] Zac: Yes. So we said we just doubled down on home base.  [00:04:40] Jason: I mean, Texas is like its own little universe. We've got Favor, we've got HEB, we've got, you know, there's all these things that are just specifically Texas. So if y'all come to Texas, you got to like experience the whole Texas deal. You got to go to an HEB, you got to go to Bucky's, you got to go to all these things, right? [00:04:56] Zac: So yeah, right. When you're here in town for Jason's event, go get yourself some Yeti swag.  [00:05:02] Jason: Yes.  [00:05:02] Zac: And then order yourself a Favor.  [00:05:04] Jason: Yes. There you go. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, and people get really religious about their, you know, things like Yeti. It's like Yeti Mecca. Like people, like my brother-in-law comes into town. He is like, "I got to go to the Yeti store." He's like, just like starry-eyed in there. And I'm like, "why? Why?" Coolers, thermases? I don't know. Cool drinks. Yeah. Yeah. It's a thing. So he like collects them, and then sometimes he's flipping them too. Like there's limited edition things, so. My brother-in-law's name is Jason also, so he might listen to this. [00:05:36] Jason: So Jason, I mentioned you on my podcast, so, all right.  [00:05:39] Jason: Shout out to Jason.  [00:05:41] Jason: Shout out to Jason. So, cool. So Zac, I mean, that's a pretty impressive thing. Not many people can say they built a hundred million dollar, you know, business or had an exit or something like that. So, and then what did you do next? [00:05:55] Jason: Like, you sell this thing, did you lose all meaning and purpose in life and decide to start a new business or what happened?  [00:06:01] Zac: I think that happens with some people, right? You sell it, you have somebody, you're like, "what am I going to do with my life now?" I'm going to take a good thing and somehow it becomes a bad thing. [00:06:09] Zac: But I just, I really like building. And I like the process of entrepreneurship where you talk to people, you try to find a problem and you like go hit a whiteboard, you sketch, it becomes more tangible, and then all of a sudden you can partner with an engineer and make it and then bring it back to the customer. [00:06:26] Zac: And I just like that. It kind of just scratches something in my brain, I think. And something else that's been cool for me on my entrepreneurship journey. I had mentioned that I've been doing it now for a decade and a half and the entire time that I've been working and doing startups, I've been doing it with like my best friend Ben from growing up together. [00:06:45] Zac: We  [00:06:46] Jason: best friend Ben.  [00:06:46] Zac: wen to school in New Hampshire. And it's fun to be able to go on that journey with someone like that.  [00:06:52] Jason: Yeah. That's cool. So you and Ben are still doing stuff together then.  [00:06:55] Zac: Right.  [00:06:56] Jason: Yeah. Third company.  [00:06:57] Zac: Third company now, so.  [00:06:59] Jason: Yeah. Dynamic duo. All right. And so I imagine that you have some complimentary sort of skill sets and challenge each other a bit. [00:07:08] Zac: Yeah, I think our brains have kind of been swapped and became more of the same brain. But the way that I explained it originally was like Ben was the left brain engineer, right? He is going to build out the backend database. He was a civil engineer, so he was just constantly doing math. And then I was more of the, you can kind of see there's some paintings behind me, like I was the artist.  [00:07:30] Jason: The right brain guy. Yeah. Got it.  [00:07:32] Zac: But now it just kind of became one, somewhere between now. He kind of went a little bit more right. I went more left, so.  [00:07:38] Jason: Cool. So bring us up towards the present day. So like, what are you and Ben, you know, getting together and working on? [00:07:45] Zac: Yeah, so I guess the way that we got into the property management industry was we were trying to build some leasing automation tech over the last few years. We had something called Sunroom Leasing, and it was like a platform that would help. With self showings, with different things related to collecting some data from renters about the home. [00:08:05] Zac: We had at one point in time, around 8,000 homes that were leasing across the country for some real estate investment trusts and some large scale property managers. And it kind of turned us on to this like, it had some challenges I think of that scale. And so we ended up realizing that's not what we want to do long term. [00:08:26] Zac: And something that it was like a good ride, but I think we were onto something that could be more scalable and a more acute problem to solve.  [00:08:35] Jason: Yeah, this was like a tuition business. You're learning and paying the price of tuition. Yeah. So you got familiar with the property management industry a bit through that. [00:08:44] Jason: That's right. Figured out kind of your target audience and you probably started to see some different problems you like started scheming with your whiteboard on, so.  [00:08:52] Zac: Yeah, and the problem that we zoomed into was around utility setup. And what we thought was kind of a silly thing was, here it is, it's 2024. [00:09:01] Zac: This was last year that we had launched it. We realized that there wasn't like a Google Maps of utilities. We thought it was silly that you couldn't just type in an address online and then see what's the water, what's the electric, what's the gas, what's the internet? There was no transparency for that. [00:09:20] Zac: And when we looked closer, there's like, you zoom in on water, there's over 20,000 water providers and they have really weird setups, you know, or it could be down just by the neighborhood or the zip code or the, you know, it's just wacky the way that the mapping works. And we thought if we could build out the whole mapping infrastructure, that would be a valuable thing, both for owners of the property that just want to have a more streamlined process, property managers that are doing it every day, and then renters. If you kind of think of this problem of setting up utilities while it's annoying and they have to Google around and make a bunch of phone calls, this is just one problem within a whole, you know, iceberg of other things. It's just the tip, small thing that they're doing a ton of things related to the move. We thought that if we could streamline this, then it could have a broad appeal and be something that we could do nationally and do at a big scale. So, over the last year, what we've done is we've built out that infrastructure to be able to do mapping at scale. [00:10:21] Zac: And we have built a platform that streamlines the process of turning on utilities. We're trying to make the utility on switch and it's a cool tool because the property managers using it can get confirmation that utilities have been set up correctly. And this is helpful for them because, you know, if you don't turn on the electricity and it's the dead of winter, you're probably going to have some problems on your hands with pipes bursting, you know, and things like that. [00:10:48] Zac: So, it's a useful tool in the process.  [00:10:51] Jason: So let's talk about this problem, right? This is super annoying. Like everybody that's moved has had to figure out this weird, you know, puzzle to like, which utility providers are available here? Which internet provider can I use? What are my options? Can I get this cool fiber, you know, thing, can I get this? Is there..? Like what's available? Then they're trying to figure out like water, electric. You're maybe trying to find out from the previous owner or somebody and you're trying to like negotiate all this and then like getting things switched and then the timelines like it's a mess. [00:11:25] Jason: Like it's really annoying and yeah, it's like why do we just deal with this and put up with this? We're living in the age of AI and this AI revolution now and. Why isn't there a better solution to this? It seems like it's just like chaos and confusion. Yeah, so.  [00:11:45] Zac: It is chaos and confusion. Yeah. And people waste so much time doing it and oh god. [00:11:50] Zac: Yeah. And I think as a result, like sometimes people will just make sacrifices where they'll be like, well, I was on this telecom company before. Maybe I'll just go back to them. And then I might miss out on being able to be like, well, I could have had faster internet or a better plan that's cheaper or something If they had just...  [00:12:07] Jason: sure. Yeah.  [00:12:07] Zac: ...known that they had options.  [00:12:10] Jason: Right. You're like, man, I'm still using dial up. And I didn't realize Google Fiber was available here. Yeah, right.  [00:12:15] Zac: Throwing that in an old AOL like.  [00:12:18] Jason: Yes, I remember those days. I was such a nerd. Alright, so yeah, and people may maybe get impatient and they just make some quick decisions. [00:12:27] Jason: You know, and all these companies try to give them incentives like, Hey, if you move, like we'll move it and help you get it set up. And they try to make it seamless, but because they're trying to retain their, you know, the customer, but that might not be in the best interest of the customer.  [00:12:41] Zac: Totally. Yeah. So this we're in the spirit of trying to add transparency into the process, make it more streamlined. And and have a really lightweight tool like, you know, not another app you have to download, but just something that seamlessly fits in the move in process. Okay. [00:12:55] Zac: Integrates really well with the tools that the property manager is already using, you know, just is able to sync, in real time, figure out what are the addresses coming up, and then give the property manager a way to both communicate what the utilities are and then check that they've been turned on. [00:13:16] Zac: And then interestingly, there's a lot of places in the US where these telecom companies are competing. And they spent a lot of money to lay down these fiber optic lines, you know, or copper lines, and they're trying to recoup some of that cost. Yeah. And so they'll pay money for more customers. [00:13:35] Zac: And so we're able to generate revenue and then share that with property managers as an incentive to use the tool.  [00:13:43] Jason: Okay, cool. So what's the name of the tool or this service?  [00:13:46] Zac: It's called Utility Profit.  [00:13:48] Jason: Utility profit. Okay. All right. And it's P-R-O-F-I-T I would assume? Yep, exactly. Not like you're prophesying. [00:13:57] Jason: All right, got it. So Utility Profit, and so this really is solving that challenge to just streamline all that, and there's a financial incentive or benefit for the property manager helping to get these things connected.  [00:14:11] Zac: That's right. That's right. Yeah. And one of the...  [00:14:14] Jason: Win, win, win all the way around win. [00:14:15] Zac: Yeah, exactly. And that's the best type of tool. You know, something that it doesn't just benefit one party, but all the people involved. Yeah. And so, you know, it's exciting there. Now there's people across the entire United States using it. We've been helping thousands of renters per month. [00:14:32] Zac: Just in the last year there's been, I think over 750 property managers using it. Some really big ones with thousands of properties all the way down to people that just have a couple homes in the portfolio. I think the average has about 400 homes and, you know, it's really kind of empowering that we bring something to the world and that fast that many people are using it. [00:14:55] Zac: It's cool to see.  [00:14:56] Jason: Yeah. Cool. So. And Ben's leading the nerds on the team making this all work.  [00:15:02] Zac: Yeah, we're both working closely with engineers and, I mean, it's been a big lift. I mean, we've had to do all sorts of wacky things to be able to like get this data because like I said, it didn't exist. [00:15:12] Zac: I imagine. [00:15:13] Zac: We have to like literally go and draw service maps, you know, that were PDFs on old websites and then, you know, turn them into a structured database. Right. I, you know, pull it up correctly. Yeah.  [00:15:26] Jason: You're just doing this ground level legwork to like get... it's almost like you're transferring old records into a digital format. [00:15:35] Jason: You know? Yeah. So that people could play their MP3s or something. Yeah.  [00:15:38] Zac: It kind of feels like that. It's almost like we're like taking the Yellow Pages and then putting it online or something. Yeah. I mean, it's kind of a wacky problem that we're solving there.  [00:15:48] Jason: So you're single handedly bringing the utility space into the future, so.  [00:15:54] Zac: Yeah. And one thing that we've we've been doing over the last couple months that I think is pretty cool is that there's this whole industry that exists for the multifamily apartment space related to what they call as like fiber as an amenity or fiber to the home. [00:16:11] Zac: Yeah. And so the way it would work on multifamily would be, you know, these big telecoms would say, "Hey, we'll sell you a thousand units of internet and then we'll give you a discount for doing so. And then you can either kind of keep that for yourself or you can, you know, share that with your tenants as a way to help your apartments stand out from other apartments." [00:16:33] Zac: The apartments are i identifiable and also you know, easier for the telecoms to spot. The hard thing about homes is it's this long tail of properties and there hasn't been a good way to aggregate them. I think over the last few years there's been some, you know, real estate investment trusts that have got to scale. [00:16:54] Zac: And so it kind of got these telecom companies thinking, "Hey, maybe I should go you know, sell into this market, see if we can apply the same principles of this program from apartments to single family." But it hasn't yet been done at any sort of significant scale. It's kind of a new concept. Now that we have hundreds of thousands of homes, that we are effectively the on switch for, we're helping to source these deals. [00:17:20] Zac: And we're able to bring, you know, significant discount from retail pricing to property managers and consumers. So we we're adding that as a new program that we're doing. We're calling it like Fiber Ready Homes. So it's a cool thing because we can help property managers identify what portion of their portfolio has the underlying technology at the home to have, you know, hyper fast internet speeds. [00:17:47] Zac: Yeah. And then do all of the enrollment process and the billing process to be able to offer a program like this. And and it's pretty gnarly. Like the average property manager that will turn on this program can make tens of thousands of dollars a year. It's roughly $10 per month per door. [00:18:04] Zac: So if you're a 300 door property manager, this is about $18,000. 18,000 per year that you'd be able to generate. And just, you know, kind of free cash flows for enabling something that the renters want.  [00:18:18] Jason: Right. Just making more money and yeah, I mean, high speed internet also being able to bring that to your units. [00:18:26] Jason: It creates a bigger incentive for people to rent it. I mean, it's definitely something I research before I buy a home or move anywhere. I'm always like, what Internet's available there because my life is going to be happening through this. And a lot of more people working from home, especially since Covid. [00:18:41] Zac: True. Yeah, that's a good point. I mean, I think a lot of renters see internet more important than running water in some ways. I mean, it's like everyone's on Netflix and doing work from home calls. You know, it's just, it's super important for renters.  [00:18:55] Jason: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. That's interesting. And it sucks though when you like if you rent somewhere and that you only have one option and it's not the option that you really want in that area because sometimes they've negotiated like, oh, it's Comcast cable or something like this, and it's low speed or whatever. [00:19:11] Zac: Yeah, that's right. Yeah. Sometimes you're kind of limited by what lines have been laid, and sometimes there's limited options, but it's cool because now we have these two programs. We have one, which is that one I just explained, and then we have a second one. We call it like a marketplace. So it'll truly show you everything that's available, every single company, every single speed all the details of it and help to facilitate just being able to turn it on a lot easier. [00:19:34] Jason: Got it. How does this work? Like a property manager gets set up in your system, they've got their properties, you know, in this, and then they can figure out the tenants when they're onboarding a new tenant, they're like, "Hey, before we give you keys and move you in, we want to make sure utilities are getting moved over." [00:19:49] Jason: So you help streamline this?  [00:19:51] Zac: That's right. Yeah. So it will connect seamlessly with property managers, property management software. Pull in the active listings that they have, and then it will have triggers around the move in date. So once someone's been approved and you have a move in date that's approaching. [00:20:08] Zac: It will send reminders and say, Hey, you know, you're moving in end of the month, like before you move in, please show that you've turned the electric on so that there's not going to be bill back problems and things like that.  [00:20:20] Zac: So, it handles the communication and then what's pretty cool about the tool too, is it's all white labeled. Utility Profit, it's not, you know, like a tenant friendly name, you know? Yeah. It's really for the property manager. And so, okay. We're just helping to facilitate these things. So it's got the property manager's logo, you know, we're more just the underlying technology, which I think is good because like a renter in the process doesn't want to get handed off to another third party. [00:20:48] Zac: They just want to... [00:20:49] Jason: yeah, "Who are these guys? Why should I trust them? I trust you. I'm working with you," but yeah. Got it. No, I think that's really smart. And so your business model then, your growth strategy really is to leverage and support the property managers.  [00:21:02] Zac: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We're trying to partner with all the property managers in the single family rental space. [00:21:08] Zac: And you know, last I checked, you know, there's at least five to 10 million homes that are managed by third party property managers. And we want to become the main place where where people used to turn on utilities. And you know, we talked about entrepreneurs and having a big vision earlier in the call. [00:21:26] Zac: You know, I think we're solving an important problem by building this Google Maps of Utilities and also just making a better experience. I think anytime we start a business though, you're kind of thinking about like, okay, "Well if I'm able to pull this off, how could this even be even more significant long term?" [00:21:42] Zac: And one of the things that I've been just thinking about as I've been doing it is you know, today we are helping to connect the dots between these things, but I bet in the not too distant future, maybe a few years out, we'll be responsible for millions of homes in helping to turn on these utilities. [00:21:59] Jason: Yeah.  [00:22:00] Zac: We'll probably want to go down the stack of utilities, you know, instead of just directing you to be going to, you know, XYZ local power source. Maybe they get directed to a company that, similar to how we're able to get discounts on internet because we have so much scale, we could buy energy contracts in deregulated markets and, you know,  [00:22:22] Jason: okay. [00:22:22] Zac: Inch down becoming a utility.  [00:22:24] Zac: Okay.  [00:22:24] Zac: And so, I think it's a, it's an interesting thing.  [00:22:27] Jason: So you're saying maybe there's a potential the property manager could be the utility?  [00:22:32] Zac: We'll be able to help the property manager earn more money... [00:22:35] Zac: yeah. [00:22:35] Zac: ...on this process because we...  [00:22:38] Zac: just more margin [00:22:38] Zac: ...want to direct them to like a utility that we own. And we're able to help them monetize these other things like natural gas and electricity.  [00:22:49] Jason: Got it. Love it. Yeah. You're passing the benefit onto the property manager. So, yeah. That gives them quite an incentive to help you grow this. [00:22:55] Jason: Right. So I love it. So, I mean, this really gives property managers a strong competitive advantage over self-management then. [00:23:03] Zac: Yeah, I think so. You know, I think property managers, they have so many things that they're doing and this is one of those set it and forget it types of tools. You know, it's not something you have to have mastery over and like learn another thing, this is like you get on, you set the thing up, you get the logo added and get it synced to your PM software and then you're done with it and it just kind of is happening in the background and then just notifies you. [00:23:26] Jason: Got it. So the setup is pretty easy and then it makes it a lot easier for the property management team to make sure utilities are getting set up correctly. There's visibility into seeing what's been set up and what hasn't, it sounds like. And you mentioned integrations with property management software, and I know everybody listening's like, "but what about my software? The one I'm using?" Yeah. So what integrations do you guys have set up already?  [00:23:49] Zac: It's all the major ones. So what we find is like AppFolio is popular. Rentvine is becoming more and more popular. You know, Propertyware is another one. Buildium's one that we you know, have in the works too, but yeah, I think most people... [00:24:04] Zac: Rent manager? [00:24:05] Zac: Rent manager, yeah. That's one that we work with too. Yeah. I know there's a lot of options for property managers there, but yeah. [00:24:11] Jason: Very cool. Yeah. So everybody listening there. There you go. So they're like, "oh, he mentioned mine. I'm okay."  [00:24:17] Zac: Yeah, that's right. Yeah it's cool that it, you know, just works in a broad way like that. And it's kind of interesting too that the tool even is able to work you know, even if you don't even have a property management software to figure out some ways to you know, even work in that use case. [00:24:32] Jason: Sure.  [00:24:32] Zac: But most people have software.  [00:24:34] Jason: So as long as you can get the properties like into your system, then...?  [00:24:38] Jason: That's right.  [00:24:38] Jason: Got it. Okay, cool. But if they have those then and you have that connection, then it's, yeah, it'll just streamline things. Makes it even more turnkey.  [00:24:47] Zac: That's right.  [00:24:48] Jason: Got it. Cool. So, all right, so you, what else should people know about this? [00:24:52] Jason: Like what are the big questions property managers have been asking you?  [00:24:55] Zac: I think one question is, you know, how much money I earn from this? You know? Okay.  [00:24:59] Jason: They like, they want to know about the money. Let's talk about the money.  [00:25:03] Zac: So the average property manager will, it's a range of 25 to $40 per move that, that happens. [00:25:10] Zac: It ends up being about 25 to, to $30 on average is what we're seeing across the country. And so I think it's one of those things where it's like nice gravy. What we find is that the average property manager, they're like, "this is nice. I can make some extra money from it." But I think it's like, you know, not enough to go, you know, it just adds to the bottom line a little bit. [00:25:32] Zac: Every little thing. Sure. So the main reason why people use it is the time savings, you know? Absolutely. It's just one last thing to have to worry about. So that's that's what we're seeing as we talk to people.  [00:25:44] Jason: Yeah. Yeah, because I mean, just the amount of time you're paying a team member, if they're like 25 to $35 an hour, for example you know, they might be spending an hour or two here or there just calling, trying to negotiate back and forth with the tenant, get these things set up so. [00:25:59] Zac: Property management some days feels like death by a thousand mosquitoes.  [00:26:04] Jason: Oh yeah. I often joke it's, it can be death by a thousand cuts or it can be a really well oiled systemizable machine, but yeah. [00:26:12] Jason: Yeah, absolutely. So, yeah, it offsets a little bit at the move in cost and then just the time savings. You're not having to pay your team to do all this communication. And you know, speed in onboarding is a real challenge for a lot of companies that are really in a high growth sort of state. [00:26:28] Jason: Like small companies might have a hard time just onboarding 10 units in a month, you know? Yeah. And larger companies, it can be pretty hairy if things aren't well dialed in.  [00:26:36] Zac: Yeah, I think that's a good point. It's all about having the systems in place. So that they scale.  [00:26:40] Jason: Very cool. [00:26:41] Jason: Well, is there anything else you think people should know about utility profit? And then we can get into like, how can they connect and get something like this going?  [00:26:50] Zac: Yeah. So the website's, utilityprofit.com.  [00:26:53] Jason: Okay.  [00:26:53] Zac: And it has some more information about how it works and has has some videos of the actual product. [00:26:59] Zac: You can see what it looks like from the renter's perspective, from your perspective and the dashboard that gives transparency. And and it kind of just walks you through everything about the product. And then there's a way on the website to be able to either book a demo if you have any questions about how something works. [00:27:17] Zac: And then, what we do is we'll just help you do like an onboarding call where we have people connect their PM software, upload a logo, invite their team members, really simple, straightforward process and then and then it's kind of good to go. So it's very streamlined thing. People typically will do it and it'll be live same day. [00:27:38] Zac: It's not like some big heavy lift or something. You just kind of go through this 15 minute process. We help you get it all synced up and then it's good to go.  [00:27:45] Jason: So, there's competition out there, right? Like this is a new thing in the space, but previously there's all these companies that try to, you know, negotiate and be able to pull in money and by being the person that gets people on a certain internet service or gets people and they get these kickbacks from the companies and that's how they make their money. [00:28:03] Jason: How do you feel like utility profits sort of stands out from those and I mean, my guess is you have the database, you have the data, like your ability to streamline. You're not having to go and start doing research and that you're just much faster.  [00:28:17] Zac: Yeah, I think that's exactly it. So there's been this whole category over the last couple years that's called a home concierge. [00:28:25] Zac: Yeah. And it's historically been like a call center model. Yeah. Where a rep will get the address and they'll, on your behalf, Google around, make some calls, you know, go try to set things up. And I think that was a helpful first step, and it seems like the natural thing that, that the industry would've been doing. [00:28:43] Zac: But this is just the natural progression of it, you know, building that database out, making it something that is like, you know, a true streamlined tool for everybody. And and just digitizing it a lot more.  [00:28:57] Jason: This is the future. This is the future. It's the next step. You're going to be a sponsor at DoorGrow Live. [00:29:02] Jason: So make sure, you know, everybody come to DoorGrow Live this year. Our theme this year is innovating the future of property management. And so we're going to be sharing innovative stuff. Innovative new models of pricing, not doing it the same way everybody else has been doing it, like percentage or flat fee. There's a lot of innovation and that's our goal at DoorGrow. We're always trying to figure out what are the most innovative stuff? We've got AI maintenance coordinators, we've got all sorts of stuff that are going to be showcased at this event. So if you don't want to be behind the times and have your lunch eaten by competitors and startups that are savvier and more focused on the future, make sure you come to DoorGrow Live. You're going to want to be there because the people that are at DoorGrow Live are going to be the ones that are getting a head start on these really effective cost, saving new tools, these ideas, they're going to help you have more profit in your business. [00:29:54] Jason: And so, Zac, we appreciate you being a sponsor. We're excited to showcase you and some other tools at our event, so.  [00:30:00] Zac: It's going to be fun. It'll be here right around the corner, so. [00:30:03] Jason: Check it out at doorgrowlive.com, and make sure you get your tickets. And we're going to be talking a little bit more in the future, probably on our podcast here. And just online about some of the cool things that you will get or learn if you come to DoorGrow Live this year in May at the Kalahari Resort in Round Rock, Texas. [00:30:20] Jason: So, cool. Well, Zac, is there anything else you want to share before you go? Parting word of wisdom for entrepreneurs out there that haven't had a hundred million dollar exits and built big giant things and they're just struggling to build their little machine, what would you say to them?  [00:30:36] Zac: I would just say like, whatever it is that you think that's holding you back, just start trying to do it. [00:30:43] Zac: You know? I think a lot of times you build up whatever it is in your head. And you think, "well, I would do it if I had this. Or what if I have to hire this person? Or, you know, I need to have this figured out, or I don't know how this works. Like I'm going to just say no to it." I would just say, just start doing it. [00:31:02] Zac: It doesn't have to be perfect to start. And the more you just take that first step it will become more clear and sometimes, it's harder to see the next 10 steps in front of you, but it's pretty easy to take that first step. So I'd say, have a bias for action. Get your hands dirty. Do it yourself. You have mentioned a lot of these things about AI and how the best companies are using ai. [00:31:25] Zac: We're really leaning into that as an organization. It doesn't matter what people's role is, we're saying. You know, download, ChatGPT three and talk to it. Ask it questions like, you know, there's so many cool resources today. It's the best time to figure things out and do things and and take that first step. [00:31:44] Jason: Yeah. GPT 4.5, we're getting clues of that's dropping and going to be out for everybody soon. And then Grok 3, I've been really geeking out on Grok 3, so it's pretty next level, so, but yeah. Cool. I love the idea. Done is better than perfect. I love the idea of rapid iteration. You know, so many times for those of you that are in the earlier stages of entrepreneurs listening to this, this is great advice because I've seen inside a lot of businesses, a lot of small businesses, and one of the biggest mistakes a lot of them make is they try to make everything perfect before they ship it, before they launch it. "I want to get all my processes dialed in," and they're trying to solve problems they don't even have yet. [00:32:20] Jason: They're trying to solve future problems instead of their current problem. And so rapid iteration really is the secret to growing a business quickly because you learn very fast what does and doesn't work. Just start trying shit. Just do it. Break stuff and you're going to learn way faster and everything's figureoutable, so.  [00:32:39] Zac: Yeah. And in that spirit, it doesn't matter what the thing is, you can always get feedback from it, even if it's not totally built yet, like it can be on a napkin, you know, or it could be the next level of that. But go build the thing in whatever low fidelity way. Yeah. [00:32:55] Zac: And then go talk to your customers about it. And this is going to have different applications for different types of business. because you're going to talk about different things. But you know, maybe you have a new program that you're thinking property owners might want to see, like get their feedback on it. [00:33:10] Zac: Or maybe you want to launch a new website or a new logo or whatever it is. I would just say, it doesn't have to be perfect, bring it but you have to get feedback on it. So definitely go and partner with who it is that is going to see it, and then just talk to them about it and say, "Well, how could this be better? What is this missing? What would be the next thing to do? If you could do anything with this, what would you do?" And, you know, people love to share advice. I mean, I think that's the other thing. Yeah. It's like over the last couple years since I've been doing entrepreneurship, I've been kind of amazed at how many people have been willing to share their time and their advice. [00:33:46] Zac: Yeah. And especially if you get an intro to someone from something. Yeah. You know, I think there's this huge thing of maybe you're afraid to ask for that intro or, you know, have that conversation because it's not perfect yet. I would say, you know, find the ideal person that you want to talk to and then figure out how to work backwards and how to get an intro to them and then have that conversation. [00:34:08] Zac: You know, I think you have to be vulnerable in it because you are going to come across dumb sometimes. You know, people are going to say like, "how did you not know this? Everyone knows this," but like, just lose your ego in that. Be okay with not being okay. And then you're going to feel a lot better because on the other side of it, you're going to learn so much. [00:34:27] Jason: Yeah, I think the secret to being smart is just being willing to look stupid. So, I mean, for sure. Ask the dumb question that you're afraid to ask because you're going to learn way faster. And I really think proximity is power. Like just another reason people should come to DoorGrow Live is I think we attract the most growth oriented property management, business owners in the industry and just being in proximity to all these sort of change makers and people trying new stuff and people experimenting, people willing to invest in themselves and to pay like coaches, like DoorGrow. And then I use all my clients as a mass rapid iteration sort of project. [00:35:05] Jason: Like we're always figuring out more and more stuff and I'm gathering these ideas and so we've got systems in place to just allow us to innovate in this industry a lot faster. And so we're really excited about bringing these kind of things to DoorGrow Live and showcasing it. [00:35:19] Jason: So if you're not part of our program, you're not one of our clients. Come check out the magic at DoorGrow Live. Connect with some of the people there and you might realize you found a home, so yeah, your family might be there. So yeah, entrepreneurs we're different breed of people. We, you know, we take risks, we're willing to try new things, and we're not focused primarily on safety and security. [00:35:39] Jason: We're focused more on fulfillment and freedom and contribution. And so this natural offshoot, entrepreneurs are the most helpful people, especially the healthy ones. When you're in a healthy growth-minded state, you want to benefit and help everybody. You're not gatekeeping information like people are sharing stuff and so yeah, I found the same thing to be true in the high level masterminds, coaches that I work with. [00:36:00] Jason: Like just being around the people in these programs has been probably the biggest benefit more than even learning from the guru or whoever that is sharing stuff sometimes. And so, yeah, proximity.  [00:36:11] Zac: Yeah, I think that's well said. You kind of become an average of the people that you spend most time with. [00:36:15] Zac: So if you're around, you know, someone who's going to be pessimistic about everything, then chances are, not going to try things as much. I mean, that, that was like one of the reasons why I had originally moved from, you know, where I was growing up in New Hampshire. I remember when I was pitching Favor when I was 20 something people were like, "ah, no one's going to pay five bucks for something like that. And how do you know how? You don't know how to code. You can't figure that out. Right? Go get a job like everybody else." And then I kind of moved and found my tribe you know, and in Silicon Valley area and then in Austin, Texas. And then next thing you know, I'm actually doing the thing.  [00:36:53] Jason: I think even if people just come to DoorGrow Live to connect with somebody like you and they can create a relationship with somebody like you or any of the change makers or players that we attract at our event. [00:37:05] Jason: I mean, you've done things that a lot of people would dream of being able to do in business, right. And so come make those connections, come to DoorGrow Live and make some connections because it's going to change your life for sure. So, well Zac, I appreciate you coming on the show. People can connect with your company at utilityprofit.com. [00:37:22] Jason: Do a demo. And it's been great having you here.  [00:37:26] Zac: Hey, thanks so much for having me on Jason.  [00:37:28] Jason: All right, so everybody, if you are struggling to grow your business or you're struggling to deal with operations, reach out to us. Check us out at DoorGrow.com. We would love to have a conversation, see if we might be able to help you with something. [00:37:39] Jason: And that's what we do all day long and we care about our clients. We really want to make sure that everybody succeeds. We only win if you're winning. And so until next time, everybody to our mutual growth, let's all win. Bye everyone. 

Why did you decide to own a property management business instead of working for someone else? Did you just want money, or was it something deeper that drove you to become an entrepreneur? In this episode of The Property Management Growth Show, industry growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Rich Walker, Founder of Quik! Forms to discuss adaptability as an entrepreneur and embracing change. You'll Learn [01:55] Entrepreneurial Tendancies from a Young Age [13:49] Reasons for Starting a Business [20:08] Embracing Change and Facing Adversity [30:31] The Power of In-Person Interaction Quotables “ You build something people want, they'll pay you for it.” “There's no value in worry.” “We think we want more money because we think it's going to give us more freedom and fulfillment, but we actually have less fulfillment and less freedom the more money we make.” “If everybody thinks they're right, then my beliefs can be just as right.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Rich: What do you get when you have your best work? [00:00:01] Rich: You get joy, you get fulfillment, you get productivity, you get engagement and you get the highest possible outcome from every person on your team. That's why I'm an entrepreneur more than anything else. [00:00:11] Jason: All right. Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the property management growth show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, impact lives, help others, and you're interested in growing your business and life and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management, growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show. [00:01:13] Jason: And my guest today, I'm hanging out with a local Austinite, fellow friend that I know locally, CEO and co founder of Quik! Forms Processing, Rich Walker. Welcome Rich.  [00:01:26] Rich: Hey everybody. Really an honor to be here. Jason. Thanks for having me on your show today.  [00:01:30] Jason: Yeah, glad to have you. [00:01:31] Jason: So you're doing some really cool stuff in business. And it's been great. We're in a mastermind locally together. And and you're going to be speaking to our audience at DoorGrow Live, you know, for those listening, make sure you get your tickets to DoorGrow Live. And you've written some books, like tell everybody, give us some background on Rich and how you kind of got into entrepreneurism and like, what you do. [00:01:55] Rich: So, well, boy, this could be a long story or I'll try to keep it brief. Look, I grew up very poor. I was the product of a broken household, if you will. And I learned very early on that if you make something people want, they'll pay you for it. It's amazing. So I started my first business at age 12. I took a $300 investment and turned it into over $1,100 in one day at an event. [00:02:18] Rich: And I was stunned. I was just struck with all these people handing me fistfuls of cash to buy my product. And I said, "wow, this is what I'm going to be. I'm going to be an entrepreneur. I'm going to build businesses." [00:02:29] Jason: What was the product at age 12?  [00:02:31] Rich: Oh, man. So I should show it to you. I'd have to go off screen to get it. [00:02:35] Rich: But if you know what surgical tubing looks like stretchy latex tubing, and you know what a pen tip looks like, take the pen tip, shove it into the tube, tie a knot on the other end, and then get a garden hose with a cone shaped nozzle and it blows up a long tube of water. Like a squirt gun. Yeah, we called them water weenies. [00:02:52] Rich: Yeah, I made those. Yeah! Yeah.  [00:02:56] Rich: So, but imagine before the super soaker came out, what were your options? You had water balloons, hand grenades, you had squirt guns that went five feet, you had the hose stuck to the house and then water weenies, which squirted 30 feet and carried gallons of water on your back. [00:03:13] Rich: So you are the king of the water fights.  [00:03:15] Jason: Yeah, and you got a good workout.  [00:03:18] Rich: Yeah, amazing.  [00:03:19] Jason: How long were these tubes? How long would you cut them?  [00:03:23] Rich: The longest cut length would be three feet, but when it filled up, it was nine feet. So imagine, draped around your neck, down to your toes, with water.  [00:03:31] Jason: Nine feet of water filled hose. [00:03:32] Jason: Yeah. Yeah.  [00:03:33] Rich: Yeah. So you were just a walking, like fire truck.  [00:03:36] Jason: I just got back from funnel hacking live and Russell Brunson always shares a story of starting by selling potato guns online, like how to build potato guns. This sounds very reminiscent.  [00:03:47] Rich: Yeah, very much. It was a really awesome experience. I mean, honestly, going from having nothing to having money in my hands. [00:03:54] Rich: And actually I saved up money at age 12, just about to turn 13. I saved it until I bought my first car when I turned 16.  [00:04:01] Jason: Wow. Wow. All right. So you ever heard of the marshmallow tests they give kids? I'm not sure. It's like, it's delayed gratification versus instant gratification, right? So they put a marshmallow in front of them and they make them wait with it. [00:04:14] Jason: And they're like, you can eat this marshmallow, but if you don't eat it by the time I get back, then I'll give you two marshmallows or something like this. I think it's how it goes. And most kids fail. They're like, "Oh, I really want that." Or they'll put cookie or whatever it is, you know, showing you saving money, when there's like, you could buy video games as a kid, like whatever, right? That's some serious delayed gratification right there, so.  [00:04:38] Rich: You know, Jason, I got to tell a bigger story here because really this is what happened at age eight, I went to my friend's house and my friend had a radio controlled car. [00:04:46] Rich: It was a kit you had to build yourself, but it would drive 35 miles per hour off road. It was amazing. This is the eighties, right? Yeah. And I wanted that car so bad. And we were so poor. There was no way my parents were going to buy me a $300 car. And in today's money, that's like 12 to 1500 bucks. Okay. Yes. [00:05:03] Rich: So that's not going to happen. So I started saving my money, birthday, Christmas money. I would sell candy around the neighborhood. I would rake leaves for a neighbor and make $2. Anything I could do, anything I could do to save money. It took me four years. To save up the $300. And that summer that I got introduced to water weenies was by my neighbor. He was a supplier to physicians. His son and I played all the time. And he came out and gave us these water weenies to play with, but then he took them back and all the other kids wanted one. So I was kind of observant and I said, "Hey, In your shed, I see a reel of tubing. Can I buy that from you?" [00:05:36] Rich: It was like 25 feet of tubing. "He's like, okay, how much?" It was like 12 bucks or something. Ran home, grabbed the money out of my bank account, gave it to him, went home, started cutting links, destroyed every pen in my house and started selling. And within a day or two, I had sold $50 worth of stuff. So I went and bought another 25 feet and sold another $50 bucks. [00:05:53] Rich: Then I went to summer camp and I rode my bike and squirted every kid I could find had 20 kids chasing me on my bike. And then I'd sell them all the water. So over that course of that summer, I got to the $300 mark and I bought the car. Now, my uncle saw all this behavior and said, "Rich next summer, I'm hosting fourth of July. [00:06:10] Rich: You could have a booth and sell these water weenies there. Would you like to do that?" I'm like, "yeah, absolutely." Months and months go by, go through winter, go into spring, my mom reminds me of this opportunity. And I'm like, okay, so I go to my neighbor, "How much for a thousand feet of tubing?" "300 bucks." [00:06:24] Rich: Guess what I don't have? I don't have 300 anymore.  [00:06:27] Jason: Yeah.  [00:06:27] Rich: So I said to him, "Hey, look, your son is about to have his birthday. Wouldn't it be cool if he had this RC car? He loves playing with it. Would you barter with me and trade me for the tubing?" And the guy's a saint. Honestly, I wish I could find him and say thank you because he did it. [00:06:42] Rich: His son got a great car. I got the tubing. I wrote a letter to Scripto pen company and said, "Hey, I'm doing a project. I need some sample pen tips. Would you mind sending me some?" They sent me a box of 5,000 pen tips for free.  [00:06:52] Jason: What?  [00:06:53] Rich: No cost. And so then I had all the materials to put it together and showed up at 4th of July, started selling by 7am, sold out by 1pm. [00:07:01] Rich: And this is why I said I had fist fulls of money. I had people at this, you know, long table. I had people out eight to 10 people deep lined up to buy these things. And it's all I could do is to take money and give them a water weenie. My pockets filled up with cash and my mom would pull the cash out of my pockets and put it in a safe box over and over again that day. [00:07:18] Jason: What were you selling each one for  [00:07:20] Rich: Anywhere from like $1.50-4.00 or something, depending on the length.  [00:07:24] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:25] Rich: Yeah.  [00:07:25] Jason: Okay.  [00:07:26] Rich: It was such an incredible experience. And that's why I said, man, I'm going to be an entrepreneur. So I just knew that I was bitten and I had to do this and look, I'm age 50 now, my company that I own today, Quik! Just celebrated our 23rd anniversary, and I've started 10, about 10 different business ventures and companies since age 12. So I've always just had this desire to fulfill my own sense of freedom and creativity and serve people. Yeah. So yeah, that's really the genesis of it. [00:07:55] Rich: Like you build something people want, they'll pay you for it. And it's an amazing thing.  [00:07:59] Jason: I love it. You see a problem, you saw an opportunity. And lots of other people saw the problem. They just didn't see the opportunity. They're like, man, I would love that one of these. It's nice, you know, and you were able to fill that need. [00:08:12] Jason: So that's a great story. Love that story. That's how you kind of got it like, you know, bit by the bug of entrepreneurism.  [00:08:19] Rich: Yeah. Now, the Quik! company started because in the nineties, I worked at other companies that worked at Arthur Anderson, for example, and I learned technology, especially from like a backend perspective of big tech. How does it all work? How does it flow together? And I decided to get out of tech consulting late in the year 2000.  [00:08:39] Jason: Yeah.  [00:08:39] Rich: And in doing that, I really went back to my degree in college, which was finance and said, "I really love finance. Let me help people with their money." So I became a financial advisor. [00:08:47] Jason: Okay.  [00:08:48] Rich: And in doing that. You go out and get your licenses, you work really hard for all that, you work really hard to gain the trust and respect of your first client, and then they finally say, "yes, I will open an account with you," and guess what your reward is? Yeah, fine, you can make a commission that's a reward. [00:09:01] Rich: No, you get to handwrite paperwork. And I thought, man, this sucks. I am not going to make $4 an hour handwriting paperwork for people. I used to charge $200 an hour as a consultant, so how do I fix this problem? And I decided to build software, because I was a technologist, that would fill out my forms. Jason, it was a hack. [00:09:19] Rich: It was a Microsoft Excel spreadsheet with fields overlaid on images. It was just a hack. It just made it work, but everybody around me for six months kept saying, "Rich, give me your software. I hate filling out forms," and I was in this quandary of, "wow, I have found a need. But I want to be a financial advisor. What do I do?" And after six months, I finally said, "okay, let's build the product." So we did our first install in February 11, 2002 and never looked back. I mean, we found out people really wanted this and it's changing people's lives. It was empowering them to do their best work, which is not paperwork. And today we manage a library of over 42,000 forms. [00:09:57] Rich: And we generate over a million forms every month across wealth management industry, serving well over a hundred thousand financial professionals.  [00:10:05] Jason: Yeah.  [00:10:05] Rich: So yeah. Yeah.  [00:10:07] Jason: That's awesome. Yeah. I had a short job. I worked for a while at Verizon, like in their business DSL tech support. Like I was an internet support guy and after every call, it was a call center, after every call that we did, we had to fill out this ridiculous form it just took so much time and we were measured on the time that we were unavailable between calls and how many calls we completed. And so I found some sort of like macro tool because there was only like three, maybe four types of tickets that we would do. [00:10:40] Jason: It was always the same sort of challenges. But we had to fill out all of these fields of ridiculous, stupid stuff. And so I use this macro tool that basically if I type a certain thing, it would just spit out a whole bunch of other stuff and it would go tab from field and fill it all out. And so I set this up because I started to see these patterns. [00:11:00] Jason: And so then I, similar to what you did I solved the problem for myself. So I built this thing that I could then just do this type of ticket, this type of ticket. And then there were other people on the floor and they're like, "man, I'm going to get fired. I can't do this. I can't do this fast enough." [00:11:14] Jason: Well, so then I'm starting to help people. So now I'm like a virus on the floor and the managers didn't like me for some reason. Like my manager did not like that I was doing this. I don't know why. Because maybe he didn't come up with the idea. I don't know. Yeah. Then I'm starting to help other people so they don't get fired, and I'm showing, you know, other people on the floor, how to set this up and how to do this and giving them my formula and, you know, for the script language for how to do this. And they're able to close their tickets out like really fast. They're just like "bloop!", and it's like "vrrrrrr", and they're like, cool next. [00:11:47] Jason: Right. And what was baffling to me at the time is that it was not seen as a positive by my superiors. It was seen as a problem and I'm like you are an idiot and this is where I kind of realized Like a lot of times, you know, you've heard of the Peter principle? Yeah. Which for those listening... [00:12:09] Rich: You're at your highest level of mediocrity.  [00:12:12] Jason: Or incompetence. [00:12:13] Jason: Right?  [00:12:14] Jason: And so, yeah, which means basically people get promoted because they're good at a certain level and then they get promoted again, just beyond their current capacity or ability to perform well. And now they're at a level where they are no longer able to intellectually maybe rise to the occasion or be good. [00:12:32] Jason: And so businesses are just full or rife with all of these people that like, especially big organizations, cause I was at HP. You know, I just saw it everywhere. I always had idiots like above me is what it felt like that were telling me I couldn't do things or slowing me down and I'm like, "don't you see?" [00:12:50] Jason: And then what would happen is months later, that idea that I was trying to push that they were fighting me on was their new idea. They're like, "I have this new idea."  [00:13:01] Rich: What you're explaining is the real truth. And it took me a while to figure this out for why I'm an entrepreneur.  [00:13:07] Jason: Yeah.  [00:13:08] Rich: I want to be able to do my best work and anytime I've worked for others, I've been limited and held back.   [00:13:14] Rich: So I really was seeking a way to empower myself to do my best work. And in my company, in our culture, it boils down to empowering others to do their best work. I want my team to do their best work. I want my vendors and my partners and my customers to all do their best work. Because what do you get when you have your best work? [00:13:31] Rich: You get joy, you get fulfillment, you get productivity, you get engagement and you get the highest possible outcome from every person on your team. That's why I'm an entrepreneur more than anything else. I mean, yeah. Ooh, I'd like to make money. Oh, I want freedom. I want creativity, but honestly, at the core of it, how do I get to do my best? [00:13:49] Jason: I love this. So some of you listening to this episode, you've heard me talk about my framework of the four reasons for starting a business. I call it the four reasons. And this is what makes us different than everyone else on the planet. And we're rare. Entrepreneurs are rare people. We are the minority. [00:14:05] Jason: We feel like we're living on a planet as aliens a lot of times. We're like, "why doesn't everyone think this way?" It's super weird. So entrepreneurs, the reason we start businesses is we want four things. We think we want money, usually in the beginning. But what we really want is what money will give us. [00:14:22] Jason: And that's these things. It's freedom. Well, first is fulfillment. The most important is fulfillment. We want to enjoy life, enjoy what we're doing, make a difference, whatever but we want fulfillment in whatever that means to us. And then second, we want freedom. We want autonomy. Usually in the beginning, we have, we start trying to start a business. [00:14:40] Jason: We think we want more money because we think it's going to give us more freedom and fulfillment, but we actually have less fulfillment and less freedom the more money we make. And so then we start to wake up like, "Hey, this sucks. Like, how do I like be pickier about my clients or how do I change this?" [00:14:56] Jason: You know? But fulfillment and freedom are one and two. Third, once we have those, we want contribution. We want to feel like we're making a difference, having an impact and we want to benefit other people. And that's what a business is designed to do, right? Solve real problems in the marketplace. [00:15:10] Jason: It's contribution. If not, it's snake oil, right? It's taking people's money. So fourth, once we have fulfillment, freedom, contribution, the fourth is we need support. And that's why we build a business because we can't max out on fulfillment, freedom, contribution if we are wearing every hat and we're miserable. [00:15:29] Jason: Yeah. Because we don't want to do everything. Not everything is fun for us. right? There's the pieces you love and there's pieces you just don't love, right? And that's true for every business owner, but we're all different. Like some of us love accounting. Some of us don't love accounting, right? Some of us love sales. [00:15:44] Jason: Some of us don't love sales, right? Some of us love ops. Some of us are bad at ops, right? And so, there is though what I call the fifth reason. This is what makes everyone else different than us. We want this one too, but everyone else in the planet prioritizes this fifth reason over the first four. [00:16:02] Jason: It's safety and security. Oh, right. Yeah. They want that. That's more important than freedom, fulfillment. They will give up freedom. You saw this during the pandemic. Most people were like, "forget your freedoms. I want to feel safe. Give me safety and security." Right. I remember here in, I was in North Austin. I went to Costco during the pandemic and masks were kind of optional, right? They were optional. And I'm walking around Costco without a mask and everyone else has masks on for the most part. And anyone that didn't have a mask, I was like, "Hey, do you own a business?" And they're like, "yeah." And we're looking at each other like we know like the world's gone fucking nuts. Like, what's going on? We had a knowing like, "yeah, everyone's crazy."  [00:16:42] Rich: Man, I wish I'd asked that question. I would have met a lot more entrepreneurs that way. Because I was out there, no mask, any chance I got. Right. I mean, I didn't want confrontation with people. [00:16:51] Jason: And for those listening, there's nothing wrong with this, right? We need both, right? Not everyone can be entrepreneurial. It would be a crazy world, right? We need people that are willing to work for us, right? We need both. And they want the four reasons too. Like nobody's going to say, "Oh, I don't want freedom." But they want safety and security first and that's most people on the planet. [00:17:11] Jason: And so psychologically, entrepreneurs, we're just wired different. We will give up safety and security in order to have freedom and fulfillment.  [00:17:20] Rich: I'll tell you how I did that, Jason.  [00:17:21] Jason: Yeah.  [00:17:22] Rich: So imagine, I'm a tech consultant charging $200 an hour. I'm making $350,000 a year. I'm age 24 or 25, driving my dream car. [00:17:31] Rich: I have everything. Yeah. I go become a financial advisor and I make very little money. I mean, I had savings basically, and then I start the software company. I have no income. I literally say, "I'm going to start this company." I have zero income. I had no house, no wife, no kids. So, I mean, that made it easier. [00:17:49] Rich: And for the first ...  [00:17:51] Jason: people will say "you're nuts". They're already saying he's crazy. But every entrepreneur listening is like we get it.  [00:17:55] Rich: No, that's what you do. I cashed out my 401k. I sold the dream car, cashed out any equity I had in that. I bought a cheaper car, et cetera. [00:18:03] Rich: And then I said, "okay, I'm going to have my dream car back in a year or two." Yeah. In the first four years of my business, my income was $1,000 a month. I mean, I made $12,000 year for four years straight. And so here's the thing. A thousand dollars a month doesn't pay my rent. My rent was $1200 to $1500 during that time. [00:18:21] Jason: Right.  [00:18:22] Rich: So here's the question that you'd ask yourself. How did you sleep at night? And I'll tell you this one thing. Every time I paid rent on the first of the month, I actually did not know how I would have the money in 30 days to pay rent again, right? So how do you sleep at night? I slept great. It never bothered me. [00:18:39] Rich: I didn't lose one minute of sleep over that financial burden. Okay. I just looked at it as that's another tool I've got to figure out how to make money with this. And there were things that happened. It's like sometimes a big credit card bill came through when somebody bought our software or sometimes I borrowed money off the credit card to pay the bill. [00:18:58] Rich: It was just different things happen. And you know what, in those four years? I was never late once. My wife and I contrast. She could not do that. She just cannot live that way, she could never have that kind of risk profile for me. I was just like, "yeah, whatever. I'll figure it out every single time." [00:19:13] Jason: So you trusted. You trusted yourself and maybe God, I don't know, but you trusted your ability to create, right? You knew you had confidence you could create money.  [00:19:24] Rich: Yeah. And I learned that being poor. I mean, in college, I went to USC, one of the most expensive schools around, but I paid my own way to go there. [00:19:33] Rich: And during college, there were so many weeks, I can't even count them, where I'd wake up on Monday with exactly $5 to my name. That's all the money I had access to. And I had to get to Friday before I got my paycheck and I had to pay for parking and food, et cetera. I was so scrappy. I would look at what ads were in the paper and I find people doing focus groups that would pay me $10 for 30 minutes of my time to go pretend to shop and pick products. [00:19:58] Rich: So I'd go make an extra 10 bucks and now I had triple my money to get through the week. I did so many creative things. So I knew at that point, like, yeah, money is just a tool. We'll figure it out. We'll always make it work. So, you know, I want to bring this up because this is the thing, you know, you mentioned at the start of the show that I'm going to be at your event, the #DoorGrowShow, right? [00:20:15] Rich: DoorGrow Live. Yes. Okay. Yeah. And what I'm going to talk about is one of my books and it's called, "It's My Life!". I'm going to hold it up for anybody watching. "It's My Life! I can have..." sorry, there's two books. "I can change if I want to." My other book's called "It's my life! I can have the job I want," but I'm going to talk about change. Because one of the questions inherent to this problem of how do you go through these hardships? [00:20:38] Rich: How do you go through these struggles, which would stress most people out like crazy? Comes down to your ability to handle change.  [00:20:46] Rich: And it starts with you. Adaptability. Yeah. Now, look, I was forced into it because. I'm 50, but I've moved 33 times in my life. I had moved 29 times by the time I was 32. [00:20:58] Rich: Wow.  [00:20:59] Rich: And I was forced to move as a kid. I had no choice about that. I was forced to make new friends. I was forced to go into new schools and new cities and new states.  [00:21:06] Jason: Military family or...? [00:21:08] Rich: No. Divorces. Job transfers, etc.  [00:21:11] Jason: That's a lot of change, a lot of turmoil. Yeah.  [00:21:14] Rich: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, really a very challenging childhood that I don't look back on with any negativity towards, but I was forced to learn how to change and adapt to change. [00:21:25] Rich: And out of that, around age 12, I developed a methodology for how I could change myself and the behaviors and the feelings I had. Because I started to look at the world. This actually comes from religion. I mean, you brought up God. My father was a minister in a church when I was born, but it was very extreme. It was considered a cult. [00:21:41] Rich: My stepfather was in the Catholic church, so we attended Catholic services. I lived in Salt Lake City, Utah. I've been to plenty of Mormon events, the LDS church. I know all about that. I've been part of other types of church.  [00:21:53] Rich: I grew up Mormon actually. So I was exposed to all these different religions. And what I saw was everybody said they're right. [00:22:01] Rich: And I'm not taking issue with that. I'm not trying to say one's better than the other, but just as an observation, if everybody thinks they're right, then my beliefs can be just as right. And that empowered me to say, "what do I want to believe about the world?" How do I want to choose beliefs that will help me be the best I can be? [00:22:18] Rich: And simultaneously at age 12, my mom was going through a huge awakening in herself. She was reading books by Dr. Wayne Dyer and all sorts of self improvement books, because she wanted to get better. And she was sharing those lessons with my brother and I. So I was learning through osmosis. I was learning through observing my mom go through these changes, but I was also observing the world around me, and I realized I can make changes to myself and become better, which means I could have lower stress. So let's go all the way back to the story of how do I start a company with no money? How do I believe I don't have to be stressed out about the money? And it comes down to your core beliefs of what you actually believe about your ability to go figure it out or your ability to let it stress you out or what even stress means in your life. [00:23:02] Rich: I'm sure you've talked about this with your group here. There's no value in worry. Like worrying about a problem, what does that actually get you? It gets you anxiety and stress. It doesn't solve the problem. It doesn't add value into your life. So therefore I looked at it and said, how do you not worry? [00:23:19] Rich: How do you not stress out about things? So what I'm excited to share with your audience when I get up on stage is how to use my methodology to become more resilient, to accept change for what it is, to learn how to control the change so that you can be the person you want to become. And therefore you can go through the hardships, the challenges, the biggest potential failures or actual failures that you're going through in your business and in your life and win on the other side, because you become a better person through the whole thing. [00:23:47] Jason: Love it. Yeah. I mean, running a business can be tough. It can be very hard. Entrepreneurs go through a lot of challenges. I often joke DoorGrow was built on thousands of failures, you know? But we have that hope and we keep moving forward. And so being resilient is essential. [00:24:06] Jason: Being adaptable is essential. Otherwise it's just takes a toll. It takes a toll on our body. It takes a toll on our health. We don't make progress. We don't have as effective of decision making and there's like, if we're not in a state of worry, not in a state of stress, we make infinitely better decisions. [00:24:24] Jason: Like decisions made from fear, decisions made from stress generally are almost never good decisions. So, and if you think about all the decisions we make on a daily basis in our own business, If you just have a healthy mindset, you will be at a very different place, even in a short period of time. And I've had periods of stagnancy. [00:24:43] Jason: I've had periods of hardship and I've had periods of like dramatic growth.  [00:24:47] Rich: Yeah. And transition. I love the graphic and I'm sure everybody's seen it where two guys are digging and one guy is giving up and the other guy keeps going and the diamonds are right there. The gold is right there. Okay. Right. The guy who gives up is one foot away from the gold and the guy who keeps digging hits it because he just went that one extra foot. [00:25:07] Rich: And to me, that is that point of exasperation where you're saying, "Oh my gosh, this is the worst day of my life. The worst month of my life. This is so challenging. It's, everything's wrong. And you embrace the change and suddenly things change faster." Now you may not strike the gold that you want. You may not win the biggest account you want, but I mean, look, you can read the biography on Elon Musk with his story of SpaceX and Tesla, and he was betting the farm on both of them. He was down to two weeks of payroll, I think when NASA came in with a one and a half billion dollar check to fund the rocket boosters they wanted. Like he is at the absolute lowest point and boom, the greatest thing happens. [00:25:42] Jason: You know, when we take these risks, they create great stories. And even if it doesn't work out, the risk, it still makes a great story. It does. Because we're going to figure it out. The one thing is if we're committed, if we're committed to getting the result, it's inevitable. [00:25:56] Jason: It will eventually come. It might take a little longer, but yeah, if we're committed and man, like, yeah, he took some big risks. He was committed.  [00:26:04] Rich: Yeah, but it comes back to you. I've met so many entrepreneurs who do stress out. They lose sleep. In fact, one of the most common things I hear from entrepreneurs is, "Hey, what makes you lose sleep at night?" Nothing. Honestly, my three year old makes me lose sleep, but losing business, man, it doesn't bother me in the same way that I think a lot of other people do. And that's because I know who I am. I know what my beliefs are and I've challenged myself to change the ones that don't work.  [00:26:31] Rich: I'll give you one other example here, Jason, to think about, and again, this is not a judgment towards anybody. [00:26:36] Rich: I was in an audience of entrepreneurs, man, I don't know, 12, 15 years ago. And the guy on stage said, "okay, everybody here, raise your hand. If you have ADHD," I was maybe one of two people who didn't raise their hands. I've never been diagnosed with ADHD and I refuse to accept the label of ADHD for whatever purpose the label means. [00:26:55] Rich: What if though, what if ADHD is your superpower? And what if the label of ADHD of treating it with drugs and you can't stay focused and still is a negative by all the other aliens on this planet? Because you said as entrepreneurs, we feel alien. What if it's everybody else's assessment of you versus your own? [00:27:12] Rich: What if your own assessment was your ADHD is actually your superpower?  [00:27:16] Rich: Sure. You've got the ability to hyper focus. You've got the ability to like do something unique or exceptional. Yeah.  [00:27:22] Rich: Or switch gears on 10 conversations in a day, because that's what happens during your day as an entrepreneur.  [00:27:28] Jason: Yeah. [00:27:28] Rich: Right. And adaptability. So I look at that again, going back to how I view your belief systems and my book on change, is that you can take something that a lot of people look at as, "Oh, that's harmful for our relationship or whatever. I say, no, I'm going to turn it into my superpower." [00:27:44] Rich: And take a different view of it because it's you. It's not me. It's not my judgment of you. It's your own judgment of you. How do you want to be? Yeah, I'm excited to share this with everybody when we get up there.  [00:27:55] Jason: Yeah, it'll be awesome to have you there. You know, the reason I'm having you come and other speakers that have nothing to do with property management, by the way, for the property managers, is I find that it's never really a business issue that's holding people back in business. [00:28:09] Jason: And I mean, I've talked to thousands of property managers, I've coached hundreds. And when I dig in it's never that they're focusing too little time on their business that's the problem. It's always related to mindset, self belief. You know, that's really what's holding them back. And so I think this, this'll, this'll be really awesome. [00:28:31] Jason: I'm really excited for you to benefit our clients that'll be at this event. And those of you that are not yet clients that are coming to DoorGrow Live, I think this'll be a game changer for them to just kind of shift their mindset a little bit and increase their resiliency. So, yeah, I'm excited for that. [00:28:46] Rich: Yeah. I am equally excited because you said one of the four pillars is contribution. And I didn't write this book for my business. It has nothing to do with software and efficiency. I wrote this book because my sister and her husband at the time were at the beginning of a divorce and they were both coming to me independently to ask me questions and I'm helping them. [00:29:04] Rich: And they both independently said, "Rich, you should write a book about this someday." And it was on Thanksgiving that year when they both tried to use me as a conduit to each other, where I said, "I'm fed up, I'm done." And honestly, Jason, I just spent the next whatever days until the 23rd of December writing the book. [00:29:20] Rich: I stopped watching TV and it just flooded out of me. I never thought I'd write a book. I don't even like reading books. I listen. So I wrote the book before Christmas and then I hand bound it and gave it to them as a gift and it went nowhere. It was lost on them.  [00:29:32] Jason: Yeah.  [00:29:33] Rich: And then I realized, man, I've got this thing. [00:29:35] Rich: I've got to get it out there to the world and help other people, because this is one of the ways I get to contribute in the world. Yeah. My business contributes too, and I love that, but at the core of who I am personally, I want to empower people to be their best version of themselves. Yeah. I can do that with the book. [00:29:50] Rich: I can do that with the podcast I have. I can do that with the software that we generate. There's a lot of ways to have that effect. And that is my lightning rod. So when you ask me to come speak, it's an easy yes, because this is an opportunity for me to help others become their best version of themselves. [00:30:06] Rich: Maybe by giving them a tool set that they can then use to implement for themselves and create the person they've always wanted to be, or they know is inside of them that's afraid to come out or just maybe just one behavioral change. I don't know. It's up to them.  [00:30:19] Jason: I love books. I think books are awesome. [00:30:21] Jason: I read lots and lots of books. I'm reading books all the time. Like I usually have like three or four books I'm reading at a time because maybe I am ADHD, but you know, I get bored of something and I then focus on something else or whatever. I love books. What I've noticed though, because I've gotten to be around a lot of the people that have written some of these books... I pay a lot of money to go to masterminds or events. Like I just got to see Tony Robbins at Funnel Hacking Live. It was really great. I learned some awesome stuff. Right. And I think there's some magic in being able to be around and be in the energy space of the person that is giving you this idea. [00:30:58] Jason: It's not the same. Like being in person and doing stuff, I've noticed this weird thing that people absorb information different. They perceive it different. It's not the same as being on video like this. I've taught lots of people through video and over again, when they would come show up to DoorGrow Live or come in person, things would just click in a different way. [00:31:16] Jason: And I started to call it, mentally I called it the 'real bubble.' I have to pierce this bubble that it's not real. I think our unconscious mind doesn't perceive this as real.  [00:31:26] Rich: Right.  [00:31:27] Jason: Right. But you and I met in person, so we know we're real people. So our unconscious mind is like, "Oh Rich and Jason. We're real people." So we know this, our brain knows this, but until I meet somebody, fist bump them, high five, give them a hug, whatever, like, and they see me in person, my clients don't get as big of results.  [00:31:45] Rich: Yeah.  [00:31:45] Jason: Their unconscious mind is somehow like "Oh, this is that digital universe or TV universe. That's not real. I don't know." So if they come and like experience this... even if you get his book, like get his book, but I'm excited for people to be in your energy field to experience you and for you to teach this and there's something you could say the same words that are exactly in your book, but people will absorb it differently. [00:32:08] Jason: I've seen this over and over again, and they will get so much more out of this. That's why I'm excited to have you come present this. So.  [00:32:14] Rich: Yeah, there's no replacing face to face. There's absolutely no replacement for the energy and the connection that's made when you're face to face. I 100 percent agree and I wish we could do more of it. So i'm glad for the event and the opportunity to do it in my hometown. [00:32:29] Rich: It's great.  [00:32:30] Jason: Yeah, it'd be an easy drive not too far. So yeah All right. So, cool. I'm really excited about this. So for those of you that are listening go to DoorGrowLive.Com get your tickets. This is different than other property management events. Property management events, usually people go to these conferences and they're really there to like hang out at the bar and escape their life and their problems. [00:32:52] Jason: DoorGrow Live's different and you can go to the bar. There's bars at the Kalahari resort. You can do that and you can hang out with people. But people come to our event because they want to be around other people in that space of other people that are really growth minded. And that's who I attract in the industry. [00:33:08] Jason: We have the most growth minded property management business owners. Like these are people that are focused on being a better person, a better husband, a better father, better wife, better parent, you know, whatever. Like, and they're focused on you know, taking care of their team, making a difference in the industry. [00:33:24] Jason: And I really believe good property managers can change the world. They can have a massive ripple effect. They affect all their clients, the investors' lives. They positively impact the tenants' lives. They can have a big ripple effect. They can affect a lot of people. And that's exciting is inspiring for me to be able to, you know, Help benefit them and bring that to the table. [00:33:44] Jason: So these are leaders. These are people that affect families. And so, you know, by you coming and presenting, I think there's definitely a ripple effect and a positive impact that can happen. So if you're a property manager listening and you don't care about any of that stuff, then just don't go to DoorGrow Live, because we don't want you there anyway. [00:34:00] Jason: All right. So Rich, any quick tip that you could give to people before we wrap up our conversation and then how can people, you know, get ahold of you and, or you know, or whatever you want to plug. Floor's yours  [00:34:12] Rich: I'm going to leave everybody with one of my core beliefs. That is an empowering one. [00:34:17] Rich: And it's this: confidence is knowledge of yourself. We all want more confidence, right?  [00:34:22] Rich: And the reason I call it knowledge of yourself is because you should be able to take confidence and apply it to any given situation. It's not a hundred percent confident all the time. It's confident about something you're doing. [00:34:33] Rich: My typing speed's near a hundred words per minute. I have absolute confidence in my ability to type, for example, right?  [00:34:39] Jason: Yeah.  [00:34:40] Rich: My, my other skills may not be the same. So how do you build confidence? It's you build knowledge of yourself and it's a lot of what we've been talking about is your own personal growth and who you are and all that's going to lead to more confidence. [00:34:53] Rich: So that's just one of the things I'll share. Best way to find me probably LinkedIn. I'm the Quik! Forms CEO and that's Q U I K. There is no C in the word 'quick' for my company. You could try to email me as well. rwalker@quikforms.Com. You could spell it with a C because we own both domains, but yeah, if you reach out to me on LinkedIn, there's one thing you should do, send me a personalized note, tell me why you want to meet me because I'm very happy to meet you and share my network with you. But if you're trying to sell me and spam me, I don't answer those. So just give me a personal note and I'm very happy to talk to you.  [00:35:23] Jason: Just say, "Hey, I heard about you on the DoorGrow podcast and you know, the property management growth podcast like..."  [00:35:30] Rich: Yeah. And I'll look, I'll plug one little thing. I don't know how relevant it is to your audience, but my podcast is called The Customer Wins. And I talked to business leaders about how they help their customers win, how they overcome challenges of growth, how they create a really excellent customer experience. [00:35:45] Rich: And about 20 percent of my guests come in with totally different perspectives. I had a custom suit broker on, I had a golf pro, I had a magician and the majority of people in the financial services space. But I'm telling you, there's a lot you can learn about building a better customer experience from listening to people talk about it and hear about it. [00:36:03] Rich: So I've studied that a lot for several years. Like that's, it's a big deal to me. I mean, you have to, if you're running a coaching business, coaching businesses are generally high churn. Education businesses are really like a low engagement. Yeah. So I've had to figure a lot of things out to make this go really well,  [00:36:19] Rich: so, yeah. [00:36:20] Rich: Yeah. Well, I mean, I really don't care about how many subscribers or listens I get on my podcast. That's not what I care about. I want people to get value. Yeah. So if you get value from it, awesome. Let me know. Awesome. Very cool.  [00:36:32] Jason: 110 words per minute. It's pretty fast. Do you type on QWERTY or did you change your keyboard? [00:36:37] Rich: No, I type on a normal keyboard. At one point I was at 115. Right now I'm around 100. I bought a device called a Kara quarter, which is a totally different configuration where you can type about 300 words per minute, but I've yet to learn it new skill. I'm just not picking on yet.  [00:36:51] Jason: So. I hear a lot of world typing speed records are set in Dvorak and I switched to Dvorak simply because my wrist started hurting when I was going through college. [00:37:02] Jason: So I actually pop all the keys off all my keyboards and rearrange them into Dvorak. So I know I'm a nerd. So, and you just change the setting. On Mac books and Mac keyboards, it's like doing brain surgery. It'd be really careful, but for the geeks out there. Maybe you'd appreciate this, but it has the most commonly used vowels on the home row of the left hand and the most commonly used consonants on the home row of the right hand. [00:37:27] Jason: Oh, that makes sense. And so world speed record. So, and it took me like a month to just get used to it. Like you would pick it up really fast. So how fast are you? I'm not that fast. I just did it because my wrists were hurting. I actually don't type that much. Honestly, you know, I'm like talking and drawing a lot more than I'm typing, but I'm probably faster than I would be with QWERTY. [00:37:50] Jason: So I don't know. I've never really like done a speed test or, you know, typing test to see, but I don't think I'd beat you. That's my guess, your QWERTY handicap. So, cause QWERTY was designed to slow down typewriters.  [00:38:04] Rich: Like the hammer strike colliding. Yeah. Of the old type that, yeah. So I'll leave you with a fun fact. [00:38:11] Rich: The average typing speed in my company is about 85 words per minute.  [00:38:14] Jason: Nice. Okay. It's pretty good.  [00:38:15] Rich: Tell you there's people faster than me here. Yes.  [00:38:18] Jason: Yeah. Cool. Well, Hey Rich, great to have you on here. Appreciate you hanging out with me and I'm excited to have you at DoorGrow Live.  [00:38:25] Jason: My pleasure. And thank you for having me today, Jason. [00:38:27] Jason: All right. So for those that are, you know, struggling with growth, you're wanting to figure out how to grow your property management business, or you're just getting stuck in the operational challenges. You're tired of telling your team all the time, thinking, "why won't they just think for themselves" and frustrated and you're dealing with operational systems challenges to get to that next level, reach out to us at DoorGrow. [00:38:49] Jason: We might be able to change your life. So, go to DoorGrow. com. And if you'd like to join our free community and Facebook group and, you know, learn about us get access to you know, some free stuff, go to doorgrowclub.Com to join our community. And of course, go check out DoorGrowLive.Com, get your tickets. [00:39:08] Jason: It's going to be in May and we would love to see there in person. And a little bit of that DoorGrow magic is going to change your life. We'll see you there. Bye everyone.

As a property management business owner, how do you find the best people to build an effective sales team? In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow Podcast, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Bob Lachance, founder of REVA Global, to talk about how you can utilize virtual assistants for lead generation and growth. You'll Learn [01:22] Identifying a Need in the Real Estate Industry [08:53] How to Utilize VAs in Your Business [14:35] Creating a Hiring System in Your Business [19:30] Using VAs for Lead Generation  Tweetables “When marketing consistently goes out, what we find is all those leads end up piling up.” “Over 70% of all sales never happen on the first touch.” “People want to do business with people they see, feel, touch, and like.” “Property management can definitely be death by a thousand cuts.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Bob: Virtual assistants are a big part of anyone's business. In my opinion today, I think you got to start looking at that because small businesses, a lot of times, especially when we start, we are on a tight budget.  [00:00:12] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities daily variety unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. [00:01:10] Jason: Now let's get into the show. And today's guest is Bob. Do you say Lachance?  [00:01:18] Jason: Lachance. Yep. Lachance.  [00:01:20] Jason: I nailed it. All right. So Bob, great to have you on the show. And, Bob, you are helping people discover the top marketing channels that can maximize lead generation when working with VAs. And so we're going to chat a bit about that today before we get into that, tell everybody a little bit about you, how you got into entrepreneurism and what led you to what you're doing now.  [00:01:43] Bob: Yeah. So right now I'll just start right now. I have a real estate investment company as well. And I have a virtual assistant staffing company, so I use my VAs in my own business. So I have a rental portfolio as well as a buy sell fix flip company here in Connecticut, doing a couple of different states, but I started back about 20, 21 years ago now back in 2004. [00:02:06] Bob: I played professional hockey prior to that for eight years and then got into real estate. And you know, from real estate, helped start an education program while I was, you know, working on properties. I did a lot of, you know, fixed flip wholesaling, all that kind of good stuff. This is, again, I'm dating myself, but this is back in 2004. [00:02:25] Bob: And through the process, when I helped start this education company there was a huge need in the industry, just like you, right? You see a need out there. And I'm a lot like you on that side of it, helping people and figuring out, you know, where they could. Create passive income or income in general. [00:02:42] Bob: So, during the coaching program, while I was in it, I realized there was a huge need. Majority of the students that I coached didn't have the time to actually put into their real estate business because they were either working part time or full time. They just needed to, you know, they needed help. And for years, upon years, I was looking for a solution for that. [00:03:01] Bob: Whether it was a product I didn't know back then, again, this is going back from 2007 to 2013. I didn't know there was any services out there, like what virtual assistants were. And then I got introduced back in 2013 what a virtual assistant was. You know what this could help my business So I hired my first one and then light bulb went on like, you know what we could turn this into a business I could take the back end of what it helps create which is the real estate education company And our students could use it to help them grow their business help scale help, you know, get your time and freedom back. So launched it in 2014 and then fast forward today you know 10 years later i've been in business for a while and I also have like I said my real estate investment company  [00:03:45] Jason: Nice. [00:03:46] Jason: Nice. All right. And so let's get into the topic at hand. So, we're going to talk a little bit about leveraging virtual assistants. And so how did you kind of start doing this yourself?  [00:03:58] Bob: Yeah well, when I first got into this, like I said I door knocked first, we didn't have the opportunity to have, you know, virtual assistants do some outbound stuff. [00:04:07] Bob: And I didn't understand, you know, I didn't understand what outsourcing was when I first started. It was just me. I had an individual who was my business partner back in the day, but first year I door knocked. I went from door to door, individuals that were behind on payments. So it wasn't the easiest job in the world, but it allowed you to understand how to build a business from ground up. [00:04:29] Bob: I think that was very important back then. So nowadays you can have virtual assistants do that, whether it's you know, cold calling, whether it's responding to direct mail, whether it's text messaging, whether it's social media, whether it's going out to, you know, Facebook marketplace and going right direct to seller, you also have rarely used now Craigslist, of course, but there's different ways to acquire and use your virtual assistant to do that. So that's just, again, a long and short.  [00:04:54] Jason: So go ahead and tell people a little bit about your company and what you help people do. And I'm really curious because this is usually a difficult thing for business owners to outsource. [00:05:05] Jason: Usually they'll outsource some of the lowest level stuff, and it's usually not towards growth, lead generation, outreach, stuff like that. Those pieces can be really difficult to get dialed in or to do effectively. And so, tell us a little bit about REVA global? Okay. Yeah.  [00:05:22] Bob: So, you know, like I said, we started back in 2014. [00:05:26] Bob: Like I said, I've been doing this for a long time and just to fast forward to what that looks like today and working with property managers, because obviously the individuals that are on your podcast here, I'll speak to them. And I know, you know, many people that also buy and hold also probably do fix and flip or also may wholesale, but it's kind of the same concept, but there's a lot of different tasks within it that virtual assistants can do. [00:05:50] Bob: So what I did is I broke up all the stuff that our VA is doing in my own business because you know, many individuals that are listening to this will relate to a company like ours because like I said, we have a real estate investment company, but we also use our VA's which I think is pretty cool. I think Nowadays, it's very important as a service provider like myself to use it to make sure it works so I think that's a pretty unique thing that we actually have. But what we do, we have virtual assistants that acquire, we call them like a department of acquisition. So if you're looking for leads, you could do cold calling, you do text blasting, you could do lead management. You know, lead management, a lot of us, I'm just like, you will have all these leads in your database, but if you don't get ahold of them the first time, your marketing is going to consistently go out. So when marketing consistently goes out, what we find is all those leads end up piling up. And if you try to reach out to them the first time, you know you have a very small percentage that are actually going to pick up the phone. Right? So you need somebody then that will continue to follow up on those leads. [00:06:57] Bob: And a national statistic is over 70% of all sales never happen on the first touch, right? So you have to continue. And I think that's probably 90 or 95 percent nowadays. So that's what we find in our office. And I know a lot of our clients say the same thing. So that number could change a little bit depending on what you read, but our experience in our office is over 90%. [00:07:21] Bob: So what I mean by that is the first touch, whether it's direct mail call or a cold call, whatever you do for direct mail or whatever you do for marketing, that first touch will not equate to a contract, so you're going to have somebody that's continuing to follow up with those individuals. Very important. [00:07:39] Bob: I wish I would have understood that stat when I first started real estate. But again, you know, you learn over time. Another stuff. If you look at other tasks as well, that works very well is marketing. Right social media management because you look at any type of business if you don't have marketing It's very difficult brand awareness, right people want to do business with people they see, feel, touch, and like so you need to make sure that you're out there You're out in the public's eye. [00:08:05] Bob: I think that's very important. I know you guys do a great job of that Jason on the marketing side of always being out there because I see in a lot of different places everywhere I'm looking online. So whoever's doing your stuff man, great job. So you're doing a fantastic job on that side of it. And then you go into leasing so if we look at property management you know driving leads is one thing, but you also have to, you know, close them. [00:08:27] Bob: So if it's you, me, or whoever's the one on the phone locking up those deals, it then goes to once you own them, you got leasing, you got move in, move out, you have collection, you have evictions, you have maintenance, you have accounts receivable, you have accounts payable, bookkeeping, accounting etc that fall underneath that property management umbrella, that virtual assistants are phenomenal to actually take on those tasks for you.  [00:08:52] Jason: Got it. Yeah. Yeah. So what's the typical process for somebody that could use some help from a company like yours? How do you engage them? [00:09:01] Jason: What's onboarding like? How does that work?  [00:09:03] Bob: I think for anybody who's looking to scale or looking to just get help in their business. You know, here in Connecticut, it's pretty interesting because if you're looking to hire someone in house, you start looking at what's going on with the world and what's going on with the economy in state of Connecticut, minimum wage is up to $15.69. [00:09:24] Bob: So when you start looking at that I know in my area, if I try to hire someone at minimum wage, they don't have a four year college degree. That's just not the highest level individual that you'd want working in your office. And so now you start looking at those things and what's happening around the country. [00:09:42] Bob: Virtual assistants are very are a big part of anyone's business. In my opinion today, I think you got to start looking at that because small businesses, a lot of times, especially when we start, we are on a tight budget. Right. And so for us to start to scale or start to grow or start to hire, we really need to look at what's going out, meaning out of our pocket. [00:10:04] Bob: So it's very important. So they first look at number one, what can we afford as small business owners? If we look at that number, now we start looking at what tasks in our business do not put money in our pocket. Right? And if you look in your world, meaning the property management world, it is a lot of the tasks like leasing, like taking calls from tenants, move in, move outs, eviction process when you're calling attorneys back and forth. What does that look like? There's just a lot of back and forth, right? Maintenance concerns. You get those all the time and those are the things that burn up your time. Your phone doesn't stop ringing. [00:10:44] Bob: So if your husband or wife wants to go on vacation with you and your phone doesn't stop ringing. That's going to put a lot of stress and a lot of challenges in your personal life to where, especially when you continue to grow. You have to put more systems and processes in your business. You know, if you had one house, that's one headache. [00:11:02] Bob: You had two, that's two headaches. You have a hundred, you have a hundred potential headaches that if you don't want to take those headaches on yourself, it's always good to have somebody else take those headaches before it gets to you.  [00:11:15] Jason: Yeah. Property management can definitely be death by a thousand cuts. [00:11:18] Bob: Yep.  [00:11:18] Jason: Yep. And if you get it really well dialed in though, yeah, it can be a really great residual income business model.  [00:11:25] Bob: So Very good. Very good. Well, two sides of it, right? You buy, right? You have an equity play there, right? And if you don't have to deal with the headache, you get the positive income, you get tax advantages, things like that. [00:11:36] Bob: So, I mean, I'm a huge advocate of buying and holding and property management because over time, the more, like you said, the more properties you actually hold, the bigger your income grows.  [00:11:48] Jason: Nice. Yeah. Cool. So, so I love this. There's lots of low level tasks. It does get really expensive trying to afford staff and team members and you don't want the cheapest or lowest level or worst people. [00:12:02] Jason: You know, in the United States representing your business. And so, sometimes you can get people at a fraction of the price point that have a lot more education that are a lot better. And so when you, any of the roles that are able to be done virtually, you open yourself up to a global marketplace rather than just your local city. [00:12:22] Jason: And so, yeah, so there's definitely advantages. So my entire team are virtual and I've got team members in various areas, Canada, Philippines. Egypt gosh, I don't know where else like all over the place and I've hired people over the past and just about everywhere. So yeah. And so, and so I'm not limited, so I'm able to just go find the best and I'm able to figure out, okay what can kind of fit into our budget and what can we afford in order to do that. [00:12:49] Bob: Right. And to your point, to get back to what that looks like, I mean, anyone in this world could go out and go source for their own candidates. You know, we set up a very unique system process. We have a whole sourcing and recruiting team. All my virtual assistants are in the Philippines. We set up a sourcing and recruiting team out of the Philippines, so they're Looking through, you know, thousands of resumes every single month sifting through and we're getting the best of those Resumes that come in as soon as they pass then they go through an interview process. [00:13:22] Bob: They pass the interview process They go to our training team and they train for about a month on various tasks property management tasks lead generation tasks, etc And then once they actually get to the end of that stage, they do another test and a lot of individuals do not pass our testing phase. And that's a positive thing because, you know, that's a way to kind of weed out the individuals that wouldn't make it, yeah, very good. [00:13:48] Bob: So, after that goes to our placements team and our placements team, it's kind of like match. com. They look at exactly what you're, you know, what the tasks are. And we do DISC profiling, things like that, and predictive index. And we look at the tasks that they're good at, and we match them exactly up with the client and the tasks that they're looking for. [00:14:05] Bob: So for instance, if someone's looking for a bookkeeper, you're not going to give them a profile that's a sales profile, right? You're going to, you're going to give them the correct profile. You put them together, they go through an interview process, and they pick the best candidate that fits within them so after that, it goes to our operations team. We have what we call a client service manager that helps manage the relationship between you and your va, so it's very streamlined. [00:14:27] Bob: You know, we tried every different business model there is out there and the model that we have right now seems to be the best model.  [00:14:34] Jason: Nice. Yeah, I always recommend if you're a property manager like watching this or listening if you don't have a really solid hiring process you have not like tested embedded and experimented with, then the best initial way to do hiring is to leverage other companies' hiring processes. Go and work with a company and there's lots of different companies I've worked with over the years to get people on my team, and then eventually we've built a really good process internally, but In the beginning, I do think every business eventually needs their own hiring system, but if you don't have a great robust hiring system that you can get candidates consistently, that you know are a good culture fit, a good skill fit for the role, a good personality fit for the role then you need to go leverage somebody else's hiring system. [00:15:20] Jason: So I would highly recommend, especially if you're going to dabble with VAs, especially in the Philippines or any other area, that you want to not be dealing with all the riff raff and the challenges and everything else. You want to have some help with this. So I highly recommend you leverage somebody else's hiring system. And they're going to help you not waste as much time and money for sure.  [00:15:46] Bob: And that's one of the things that's a great very great point because when you're first starting out or you're smaller. The best thing to do is learn off of others, right? [00:15:55] Bob: It's you'll walk through a company like mine. You say, "wow, what a great system." You know what? Document what we do and then implement it in your own business if you start growing. I think that is a fantastic idea, Jason, for that. Because, you know, you look at the biggest companies in the world. [00:16:09] Bob: They didn't just, you know, start being the biggest companies in the world or that, you know, it doesn't, you don't have to be the biggest, but they learned from somebody and they started implementing and they tested, you don't always get it right the first time. But after a while you will hone in and get that right. [00:16:24] Bob: So I 100 percent agree whether it's with our company or anybody else. Like I said, anyone could do anything themselves. It all depends on what you need help with at the beginning.  [00:16:34] Jason: Yeah. And it also depends on how long do you want to suck until you figure it out.  [00:16:40] Bob: That's true.  [00:16:41] Jason: Like so if you want to collapse time, I highly recommend. Because I know when I started experimenting with hiring in the Philippines. Like there's just things you don't even think to ask like we had to ask like where are you accessing the internet? [00:16:53] Jason: Is this like at a cafe at your home? Is it reliable? What kind of computer do you have? You know, we needed to be able to you know there's just so many little quality controls we had to implement in order to figure out if they would be a good candidate, I mean, I've had team members in the Philippines with chickens going off constantly in the background and roosters crowing and like all sorts of stuff and their internet going up and down and so you know, there's there's a lot of quality controls that I think need to be put in place because it's not America. We have a little bit more stability in our infrastructure and in our internet connections and everything else. [00:17:29] Jason: And so, and then, you know, it helps to have somebody that manages the relationship like your company, because a lot of times, in that culture, they can be a little bit shy, I think at times, or a little bit nervous about displeasing their employer or giving honest feedback. And so they tend to ghost or disappear. [00:17:49] Jason: People have talked about people in the Philippines doing this. And so having somebody manage that relationship as a liaison can help improve the results that you're getting from team members. And but the cost savings are awesome. I mean, it's like a third to a half of what you would get and you can get college educated people, you get people that have like lots and lots of experience and skill, and they are able to be paid very well for their area. [00:18:14] Jason: And for you, it's seems like a steal. So.  [00:18:17] Bob: And that's one of the things that we pride ourselves on. I mean, you nailed it. You touched upon all of that. You know, we make sure there's backup. We make sure there's the right internet connection, the right computer system, etc. So to your point that is definitely something for everyone listening to this to look at because the vetting process, that's what I found the most tiring. When I first hired my first VA, I got it wrong a lot, to be honest with you. And I didn't ask any of those questions. And then it's kind of funny to talk about the rooster. That happened to me. And that was before I actually owned the company. And then I started my company. That's one of the things I'm like, all right, we have to listen for, right? [00:18:52] Bob: What's your background, what's your surrounding, right to your point. And then you start learning over time. And then the more interviews you go on, the more stuff you learn, right? Like you said, you don't learn or you don't know all this stuff until you actually go through the process. And I think it's important for you to understand if you're going to do this, know that you're going to have a lot of pain up front when you hire at the beginning, right? And then you work with a company like mine and you'll realize you didn't go through that pain, but then you want to go hire someone. And then you decide to then throw your hat in the ring and do this yourself. [00:19:25] Bob: 100%. The questions to ask, just like Jason said up front, those are some of the things to look at.  [00:19:30] Jason: You know, based on the stuff that you said, I there's a lot of. Property management targeted, you know, VA companies leveraging talent in the Philippines, but it seems like one of the things you brought up that seems to be unique to what you guys do that's different than most of the others, or maybe all of them is the focus on client acquisition, lead gen, and on the sales side of things. [00:19:53] Jason: Most are usually focused on trying to find VAs that are more like executive assistants or that are going to do tasks and be told what to do rather than people that you can trust to be the initial connection and face of your business.  [00:20:08] Bob: You know what it's interesting, again, it's interesting you say that because I've been in this business for about 21 years, real estate investing. [00:20:14] Bob: And we realized over time that If you don't have, you talk about acquisition and lead generation, if you don't have leads for any of our businesses, we are going to struggle to make ends meet, right? So you have to figure out a way that's going to drive in leads to your business. I mean, I know for me, I'll just give you a perfect example. [00:20:32] Bob: When I door knocked, I went door to door to door every day from 10 a. m. to 3 p. m. But when I go home, I'd get that list and I would skip trace it back in the day You'd use 401. com white pages, and I would look for the best possible phone number for that individual then I would call. So when I got home, I would skip trace then I'll call until seven at night until I had to eat dinner with the family. But over time, I was beat up. [00:20:55] Bob: I don't recommend doing that anymore. You don't have to do that anymore because you can hand over those tasks over to a virtual assistant. And they're the ones that are going to be doing the outreach for you. And again, I do recommend you should try it because you'll realize you know, open your mind and understand that outsourcing that task will really give your energy back and bring your success up. [00:21:16] Bob: You may feel, well, I don't think anyone could do that task better than me. We all said, I know you said it before, Jason, I've said it. We all feel that way. And if you think about it, if they do 80 percent as good as you, that's a huge win. Now you get to do other tasks. That's going to drive business and revenue to your business. [00:21:36] Jason: Even if they do it half as well as you, but they're getting. You know, half the result and you're able to hire two or three of them and not do that work. Like it's easily time and money well spent. So it's consistency, right?  [00:21:48] Bob: It's all the consistency. If you have something, a task that gets on a consistent manner, consistent basis every single day, you will get results by the end of the week. [00:21:58] Jason: Yeah. So what are kind of SLA you know, you know, what do you sort of think are the metrics or KPIs for as an appointment setter or somebody trying to help, you know, maybe reaching out directly to owners or maybe reaching out to schedule, I don't know, appointments with real estate agents to build referral relationships. [00:22:17] Jason: How many calls should they make a day? If this is their full time gig and how many appointments do you think they should be booking?  [00:22:22] Bob: Well, it depends. So if you have, so for instance, if you have a, you know, triple line dialer, as an example, it depends if you're, you know, calling just on a, you know, on your phone and just dial like this, but there's a lot of very good technology out there. [00:22:36] Bob: You got mojo dialer, you have things like that actually are very good. You may have a company that you refer, Jason, that you could tell everyone but you're probably calling if you're full time, anywhere between 400 and 600 dials using that dialer, not manual dialing. You're probably going to hit about a hundred, 150 if you're manually dialing. [00:22:57] Bob: And that's a day. Yeah. But if you have a triple line dialer, you're going to hit on average 400 to 600 and this is just what I've seen through the years that I've been doing this. You may have a technology that burns through a thousand calls and then you're going to be listening to me saying, well, Bob, you're a hundred percent wrong. [00:23:13] Bob: I'm just telling you what I see on a daily basis and what comes out of, you know, mine and my client's offices.  [00:23:19] Jason: I think yeah, even if they're doing it manually, if they can get a hundred to two hundred calls a day and get two appointments booked a day, like, so they're getting roughly about 10 a week. [00:23:27] Jason: Like that's a solid result for an appointment setter.  [00:23:31] Bob: That's a win. That's a win. You're looking at, if you're looking for, so we call them ITS's in our office, interested to sell. I know other people call it different, but that's what we look for. Same exact thing. One to two per day per VA. [00:23:44] Jason: Nice. Yeah, very cool. And those listening, I'm sure all of you would love to have one or two appointments booked for you per day, and that would fill up a nice little chunk of your time and help you close some deals. So, yeah.  [00:23:57] Bob: Especially on the buy and hold side Jason. It's a lot easier to look at your numbers. [00:24:03] Bob: And I know you have a formula that you guys look at to make sure the rent and you know, what the interest rates are today, et cetera, et cetera, whatever financing you have, but it is easier on the buy and hold side to fit within your buy box, right? Rather than having to go at, you know, 30 or 40 or 50 or 60 percent of the value. [00:24:20] Bob: When you fund it out and then try to resell it. So it's a different kind of mindset. So you're very fortunate if you're going to buy and hold your buy box is usually different than somebody who's either trying to wholesale or fix and flip.  [00:24:32] Jason: Got it. So we've probably got some property management business owners listening to this. [00:24:37] Jason: And for some reason, maybe they're just crazy and they have not yet worked with DoorGrow yet, but they're like, Hey, I would like to grow, add some doors and maybe have somebody do some calls and reach out to Bob. How could they get in touch with you and how can they initiate a conversation?  [00:24:54] Bob: Well, you can check us out on our all of our social, of course, but REVA Global. R-E-V-A Global. com. If you have any specific questions, obviously for you, you could just reach me direct at bob@revaglobal.com.  [00:25:07] Jason: Awesome. Hey Bob, thanks for coming on the show. Any parting words for entrepreneurs that are struggling, they've never hired an assistant yet they, even if they've built out part of their team or an entire team already, which is ludicrous to me, but what would you say to them? [00:25:22] Bob: Well, I would say number one, get started, of course, but number two, I would say you got to set up your processes and systems and get them done consistently because if you just get success here. And then you stop doing it. Real estate's a long game. You know, like I said, I started this 21 years ago and I wish I knew what I knew now back then. [00:25:43] Bob: I would start buying properties back then because right now I'd be retired with thousands of doors and rental income of a thousand doors. But I started a little bit later.  [00:25:54] Jason: Hey, Bob, we appreciate you coming and hanging out with me on the DoorGrow show today. And I'm excited to see if you helped maybe some of our clients listening or some of the people let me know what results they get and maybe we'll have you come back on. [00:26:07] Bob: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.  [00:26:08] Jason: All right. So if you are a property management entrepreneur, you're struggling to add doors, you're struggling to figure out how to grow your business. We want to help you. We want to support you. Reach out to us at DoorGrow. com. You can also join our free community at DoorGrow club. com. Go there. Answer the questions. We reject 60 to 70 percent of applicants. It's just for property management business owners And if you get inside, we'll give you some free stuff that'll help you out and help out your business. So that's it for today until next time to our mutual growth I'm, Jason Hull, and I hope you crush it. [00:26:40] Jason: Bye, everybody. [00:26:40] Jason: You just listened to the DoorGrowShow We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com Listen everyone is doing the same stuff SEO PPC pay-per-lead content social direct mail and they still struggle to grow at DoorGrow We solve your biggest challenge getting deals and growing your business Find out more at doorgrow.com Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe until next time take what you learn and start DoorGrow hacking your business and your life.

Many property management business owners out there struggle with having a bad brand, bad pricing, cheapo clients, a lack of confidence, and more. In today's episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull sit down in-person with property manager and DoorGrow client, Kelly Rafuse, to talk about her journey with property management. You'll Learn [04:53] How to Be Picky with the Clients You Bring on [10:59] Overcoming the “Hustler” Mindset [15:04] Choosing an Effective Brand [21:07] Cheapos, Normals, and Premium Buyers Tweetables  ”As you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't.” “ The more confident you are, the more some of these… difficult personality types will kind of abdicate and allow you to lead them.” “ It's better to be at the top than to be competing with the garbage at the bottom.” “ Need is scarcity, need is starving, and need is survival.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Kelly: You know, as you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't. And I learned how to manage property the hard way.  [00:00:07] Jason: But you learned it.  [00:00:08] Kelly: Yes.  [00:00:10] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives. And you're interested in growing in business and life. And you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. [00:00:37] You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason Hull, founder and CEO of DoorGrow, and Sarah Hull, the co owner and COO of DoorGrow. And now let's get into the show.  [00:01:13] So our guest today, we're hanging out with Kelly. Kelly, introduce yourself.  [00:01:17] Kelly: Hi there, my name is Kelly Rafuse with Crimson Cape Property Management in Wilkes Barre, Pennsylvania.  [00:01:22] Jason: And you have a really nice logo. Where'd you get that really nice logo?  [00:01:25] Kelly: It's this little mastermind I joined called DoorGrow helped me with that.  [00:01:29] Jason: And it's, I was saying, I think it's cool because it's like you are flying right there. [00:01:33] It's like, it like reminds me of you.  [00:01:37] Kelly: Well, yeah. I had this Marvel Comics stud fetish, so.  [00:01:41] Jason: Yes. Okay. You're the Marvel comic gal. All right. So really excited to be hanging out. We're actually in Pennsylvania because this is kind of the neck of the woods Sarah grew up in and managed properties nearby and you manage properties in a neighboring market and so. [00:01:59] The same market. The same market. She, yeah. Exact same market.  [00:02:02] Sarah: I left and she has the market.  [00:02:05] Kelly: While you were here, I was just managing my own portfolio.  [00:02:08] Jason: Oh, okay.  [00:02:09] Kelly: And people were coming to me to manage theirs, and that's how I got into this mess.  [00:02:15] Jason: Yeah. Well, give us a little more background on you, Kelly. [00:02:18] How'd you get into property management?  [00:02:20] Kelly: Oh, well, I started off as a real estate investor. You know, buying homes out here in Northeast PA. It's a very good place to invest in property. Cash flow is, I mean, I think cap rates were like 12 percent when I got in. So, I mean, it was huge, and honestly, I was trying to replace my income because I'd gotten as far as I could go in my former career, you know, hit a huge glass ceiling, and realized that, you know, real estate was probably my ticket to freedom. [00:02:45] Jason: What was your former career?  [00:02:47] Kelly: I was on the radio.  [00:02:48] Jason: Yeah, okay, you've got a great voice for it, so.  [00:02:51] Thank you very much.  [00:02:53] Yeah, so you were doing the radio.  [00:02:54] Kelly: Yeah, so I actually got into this market, and I liked it here. I actually, I did my two years and then moved to a bigger market. I was in Hartford, Connecticut for a while. [00:03:03] And then an opportunity to come back presented itself. And I came back because I genuinely like the area. And you know, the inexpensive real estate was an attraction. And then My husband and I got into investing in properties. We built up quite a portfolio. We had 25 units of our own at one point. [00:03:20] We're down to 14 now. We sold a few off that, you know, really weren't moneymakers for us. But, you know, as you live and you grow in this business, you learn what makes money and what doesn't. And I learned how to manage property the hard way.  [00:03:33] Jason: But you learned it.  [00:03:34] Kelly: Yes. I made all the mistakes.  [00:03:37] Jason: Yeah. And that's sometimes learning through mistakes and pain. [00:03:41] I sometimes joke that DoorGrow was built on thousands of mistakes.  [00:03:45] Kelly: You're telling me. And I will introduce My biggest pain point in just a second here. So what caused me to join DoorGrow is my husband's a real estate broker. And so people were banging on his door. "Can you manage my property? Can you manage my property?" It's like, "well, I don't do that, but my wife does."  [00:04:03] Jason: Yeah.  [00:04:04] Kelly: And I'm like, well, I can't manage their property. I don't have a real estate license. And so it was a whole year of, "come on! Just get the license. Just do it! Just do it. Come on!" So I got the license. And I took on one of his investor clients, and I joined DoorGrow, like all in the same day. [00:04:23] And what I found out when I joined DoorGrow was I never should have taken on that client.  [00:04:27] Jason: That was the price of tuition. It's one of the key lessons that defines you in business, which is you learn those lessons and not take on bad clients. Well, I mean, for us, it's been really inspiring and exciting to see your journey as an entrepreneur and see you kind of get all this ready and get things developed and start to grow. [00:04:46] And so, we were talking about it, like, what should we talk about on the podcast today with Kelly? And you had mentioned.  [00:04:53] Sarah: Yeah, I had said, I think for me, one of the biggest shifts that I've seen in Kelly again and again and again is shifts in mindset because it was just even a few weeks ago where maybe a month ago or something, was relatively recent, where you were saying like, "oh, I read this book and it changed my life I'm waking up at like 4:30 in the morning and structuring my day different" and it was just again and again. But you've had these little shifts that end up leading to these huge changes for you and how you run things and how you structure your day and like just even your, your energy levels seem to be more protected now. [00:05:32] Kelly: Yeah, I'm not getting up at 4:30 in the morning anymore. Although I just learned yesterday I might have to start again because my daughter wants to join the swim team. Oh. And they practice it. 5 a. m. sometimes, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's been a struggle because I'm not only a real estate entrepreneur. [00:05:48] I am also, you know, a wife of a whirlwind. I mean, my husband is a broker. He's into wholesaling. He's into flipping. And I go to manage him.  [00:05:58] Jason: The whirlwind broker.  [00:06:00] Kelly: Yeah, and,  [00:06:02] Jason: yeah.  [00:06:02] Kelly: No, we'll say no more about that.  [00:06:04] Sarah: There's a lot going on. [00:06:05] Lots of moving pieces.  [00:06:06] Kelly: He's a genius. He's like a Bill Gates level genius. [00:06:09] I'm just waiting for the ship to come in. Yeah, nice. It's been 30 years, but it's coming.  [00:06:13] Jason: So what do you feel like maybe was the first mindset thing that you noticed in Kelly, kind of overcoming? Or what do you feel like was your first?  [00:06:22] Sarah: I don't know if I can think of a first, but I know that there's been several that I'd like to highlight. [00:06:27] Jason: Okay.  [00:06:27] Sarah: So I think one of the things is being much more picky with what clients you take on and what properties you take on and how you kind of screen and vet people.  [00:06:41] Jason: Maybe that first client helped you learn that lesson.  [00:06:44] Sarah: Yes.  [00:06:45] Jason: Yeah. So what, what was the lesson there? Like, what did you figure out?  [00:06:48] Kelly: Oh, wow. You know, the, the first thing is I have to see if our philosophies match. [00:06:53] Jason: You and the client.  [00:06:54] Kelly: Yes. And when I got into real estate investing, I admit I'm a bit of an idealist. I know you're into personality types.  [00:07:01] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:01] Kelly: And I test as an INFP.  [00:07:03] Jason: Okay.  [00:07:03] Kelly: So I probably have no business being in any business at all, but yet here I am. But I'm a dreamer. I'm a visionary. And so my first company was, and still is called Good People, Good Homes, LLC. [00:07:15] And I own property in that LLC. I'm not really doing business in it. It just holds property for me. But when I started it, it was supposed to be the company and it was: you buy these distressed properties in these neighborhoods and you fix them up and you put great people in them and it brings up the whole neighborhood and then everybody loves you and we hold hands and sing Kumbaya and that didn't really happen. [00:07:36] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:36] Kelly: But I did improve a lot of properties.  [00:07:39] Jason: Okay.  [00:07:39] Kelly: Right. Yeah.  [00:07:41] Sarah: I think arguably in this market, you are outdoing anything that I've ever seen because the befores and afters are just wild. And the rent rates before and after are wild. And this area, yes, you can absolutely get a great deal, a great bargain on real estate, and that doesn't come without its challenges and its problems. [00:08:06] But one of the things that I think is just so great in this area that you do is you take these distressed properties and you make them beautiful and livable and safe. And you provide a wonderful home now on something before that was dilapidated.  [00:08:25] Kelly: And the market's full of C class properties. You know, I hear a lot of property managers say, "Why are you even bothering with those?" [00:08:31] Well, honestly, there isn't anything else. Yeah, that's what we hear. You work with what you got. And I probably wouldn't be a real estate investor if the market wasn't like this. Because that's how I got in. I didn't make a ton of money in radio. I didn't. But I made enough to get in, you know, with a C class property. [00:08:48] And now those C class properties are paying for my life, and my daughter's life, and it's beautiful. The property management company? That's just icing on the cake, but I think it might even eclipse what I've been able to do with my rentals.  [00:09:00] Jason: Oh, I'm sure.  [00:09:01] Kelly: And there's a need for it.  [00:09:02] Jason: Yeah. Big need.  [00:09:04] Kelly: Yeah. So the biggest thing I learned, back to your question about how to vet clients, does their philosophy match mine? Do they believe their C class property could be turned into a desirable place to live? And yes, you will be charging market rent for that, which is a lot more than maybe you thought you could charge. And you'll get a better class tenant that way. Or are they just happy not doing anything to the property, just letting it be what it is and getting whoever they can get into it and, you know, getting whatever money they can for it. I don't really want to work with those people.  [00:09:38] Jason: Do you find part of this though is just selling? [00:09:41] It's like convincing them to align with your vision? Because it sounds like you have a better vision than a lot of the people that might come to you.  [00:09:48] Kelly: Sometimes when I show them the spreadsheet, of, you know, what I've done for some of my other clients, including the first one that I told you about. I mean, I really turned some of his properties around. [00:09:59] And I've tried to fire him twice. Yeah.  [00:10:01] He won't go and, you know, he's also a third of my income, so I'm going to keep him on. And, but the thing is, he's kind of listening to me now. Kind of.  [00:10:11] Sarah: He's open. Well, I think. It's like a walnut shell. We've just cracked it open. Maybe some of the good ideas are seeping through. [00:10:18] Jason: I've talked about this before, but I think also part of it is, as we've seen, you come into your own in more confidence in what you're doing and the more confident you are, the more some of these A personality types or these difficult personality types will kind of abdicate and allow you to lead them. [00:10:36] And I talk about metaphorically punching people in the face sometimes. So you probably maybe punched them in the face metaphorically a couple of times since then. And so setting those healthier boundaries. Is something we naturally do when we start to believe in ourselves more. And so what other shifts do you feel like you've noticed in Kelly? [00:10:55] Or what are some of the things that DoorGrow's helped you with? Are you making changes too?  [00:10:59] Kelly: Well, like Sarah said, a lot of the mindset stuff, I mean, a big revelation came to me when I was at DoorGrow live.  [00:11:05] Jason: Yeah, what was that?  [00:11:07] Kelly: Well, first of all, getting to DoorGrow Live was a challenge because I was in the midst of my survival mode. [00:11:13] I'm a solopreneur still. I do everything myself. My husband's my broker of record, but, like, he's off doing his thing. Sure. So.  [00:11:21] Jason: You were doing everything, you're really busy, and you're like, how do I take a break to even just go to DoorGrow Live?  [00:11:26] Kelly: Yeah, and, you know, then I've got this mindset that, you know, how can I afford it? [00:11:30] But the thing is, I did have the money to go. That's another thing. I've got a poverty mindset I need to get past. And when I went to DoorGrow Live, that was really thrown in my face. Because I was talking about the challenges of being a solopreneur. And one of the pieces of advice that I was given by one of the speakers is, "What's your time worth?" [00:11:49] You know, you can't be doing all of these things when you pay somebody. Yeah, and I thought, well, what's my time worth? And then this little voice in the back of my head said, well, not a whole heck of a lot.  [00:12:00] Jason: You told everybody that. You said, "not a whole heck of a lot."  [00:12:04] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:04] Jason: And we're like, "oh, okay."  [00:12:06] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:07] Jason: Yeah. [00:12:07] Kelly: Well, I mean, that comes from, you know, my background. I grew up without a lot.  [00:12:11] Jason: Yeah. You know,  [00:12:12] Kelly: I saw my parents struggle. They're working class people. You know, I got into an industry that was on its, you know, downslide when I, I started on the radio in you know, the early nineties, you know, probably right after it started to slide down and, you know, there've been multiple layoffs and, you know, voice tracking and automation and, you know, I survived, but I think one of the reasons I survived was I was willing to work really hard for not a whole lot of compensation. [00:12:40] Jason: Sure.  [00:12:40] Kelly: You know, as people were let go and reductions in force, I was given more duties, but not more money.  [00:12:47] Jason: Sure.  [00:12:48] Kelly: And, you know, you do that long enough, you start getting the message that, oh, well, your time really isn't worth a whole heck of a lot.  [00:12:54] Jason: Yeah.  [00:12:55] Kelly: Yeah.  [00:12:56] Jason: Who decides what your time's worth?  [00:12:57] Kelly: I do.  [00:12:58] Jason: Yeah. I do. [00:12:59] Yes.  [00:12:59] Kelly: I do.  [00:13:00] Yeah!  [00:13:01] And, you know, that's... [00:13:02] you do now. Yes.  [00:13:03] Jason: How has that shifted for you then? What's your perception of your time and the value of it? of your time now?  [00:13:09] Kelly: My perception of my time is, you know, first of all, I don't need to be tied to the Henry Ford 40 hour work week or even the 50-60-70-80 hour work week that I hear people say you "should" do when you're running a business because, you know, it's impractical. [00:13:24] I have a daughter. She's a teenager. She's just started high school this year. She's a field hockey athlete and now she wants to be on the swim team and she's got needs. Mhm. Right? I've got a husband who does not have a cushy job I can fall back on while I do my entrepreneurial thing.  [00:13:40] Jason: Right. Right. [00:13:41] Kelly: He's also an entrepreneur. [00:13:43] We are living off self employment income. So it is a constant, you know, point of stress. So, you know, I need to find out my key productivity time, and that's when I work. And sometimes I get four or five hours a day, and that's it, of key productivity time. But then I find myself, you know, when I'm walking the dog, having all these great ideas. [00:14:06] You know, I do things like I listen to your podcast you know, some great audio books that have been recommended to me. I devoured The One Thing by Gary Keller, the Profit First book. And I'm starting to implement these ideas. And it's just sort of like they're ladder steps.  [00:14:23] Jason: So basically, little by little, you've been investing in yourself by leveraging reading, getting coaching, doing this stuff. [00:14:31] And that's translated into you valuing yourself a little bit more.  [00:14:35] Yeah.  [00:14:35] Awesome.  [00:14:36] Kelly: Absolutely. And I've learned to turn things over, like maintenance, you know, I hired one of the vendors that you recommended, Vendoroo and they're, you know, the tenants still text me with maintenance issues. [00:14:47] Sure. And I text back, "put it in the portal." Right. "If you can't put it in the portal, call this number and they'll teach you how to put it in the portal."  [00:14:55] Jason: But yeah, probably less willing to take phone calls than you were before.  [00:14:58] Kelly: Yeah, I've never really taken phone calls.  [00:15:00] Jason: That's good, that's good. [00:15:02] Kelly: Thanks me. Get it all in writing.  [00:15:04] Jason: So you went through our whole rapid revamp process as well, like with the branding and like getting everything kind of dialed in, pricing. You've implemented a lot of things. And so, has that impacted your confidence level as well?  [00:15:20] Kelly: Oh, absolutely. I really feel like, you know, I'm marketing a real brand now with Crimson Cape. [00:15:25] Jason: Yeah. What, what was it before that?  [00:15:26] Kelly: GPGH Management Company.  [00:15:29] Jason: Oh, the acronym.  [00:15:30] Kelly: Yep. Good People, Good Homes.  [00:15:32] Jason: Yeah.  [00:15:32] Kelly: You know, just to take off of that and, you know, everything was GPGH. My husband was GPGH Realty.  [00:15:38] Jason: It sounds like some sort of drug or something. What do you take in GPGH? [00:15:42] Kelly: Well, it's the right market. [00:15:44] Jason: Okay. Well, then there's that GLP 1 joke too that you could put in there. GLP 1. Yeah. But my husband actually reprinted his real estate company because of, you know, he was inspired by what I did.  [00:15:54] Yeah. Yeah. Okay. What's his brand?  [00:15:56] Kelly: He's Gorilla Real Estate. That's the little stuffed gorilla you saw on the way in. [00:16:00] Jason: Okay, yeah. Yeah, and they're different, which is nice. They're not like, you know, kind of mixed together.  [00:16:06] Kelly: Right, right. And I don't want, you know, people to really associate us together, even though we do share an office.  [00:16:11] Jason: Yeah.  [00:16:12] For now.  [00:16:13] So you've gone through the branding, your pricing is different than anyone else in the market. [00:16:19] Kelly: Yeah. It's higher than anyone else in the market too. And that keeps a lot of the riffraff away.  [00:16:24] Jason: Yeah. It's better to be at the top than to be competing with the garbage at the bottom. For sure. Yeah. Especially in a difficult or lower end market. Yeah. Yeah. So awesome. What other changes?  [00:16:36] Sarah: I think, well, how many, we've gone through the rapid revamp a couple of times, so she's done the mindset piece a few times, and I think every time you go through it, you kind of get, like, an extra layer out of it, like almost like the next, like we're stacking like, levels and levels and levels of different like mindset tips and tricks, and then the perception piece, which once we're done with the little pieces on the website, we can get that launched for you. [00:17:04] I think that will make a huge difference. And recently. I mean, for the whole entirety of the time that you were in our program, you had always said "there is no way I can add more units. There is no way I can do more work. There is no way I can even focus on growth." And you are now adding new doors. [00:17:24] Kelly: Yep, I added three last week. I added another two Sunday night from a current client. I didn't know she had another double block. You know how I got those doors? She called me from you know, her poor husband is at the Cleveland Clinic. So she called me from Cleveland and she's like "I got a no heat call from this one building that you're not managing And I can't deal with it. Can you please take these units?"  [00:17:47] Jason: Nice.  [00:17:48] Kelly: So I just got two more doors.  [00:17:49] Jason: Okay.  [00:17:50] Kelly: And I'm hopefully closing on another five by the end of the week.  [00:17:53] Yes! [00:17:55] Jason: So doors are just starting to flow and you're able to dedicate time now towards growth which before you're kind of  [00:18:01] Kelly: yeah  [00:18:01] Jason: Chicken with head cut off running around and dealing with stuff. [00:18:04] Kelly: It's going to get a little iffy again now that I've added these doors, you know, okay. Now I have to onboard all these tenants. And there's a couple that come with the vacant units that they want me to rent in January?  [00:18:16] Jason: Yeah.  [00:18:17] Sarah: The best time of year here.  [00:18:21] Jason: Right. Lots of activity.  [00:18:23] Sarah: Speaking of vacant units, You have none now in the portfolio that you're Managing? [00:18:28] My current portfolio, I filled them all.  [00:18:31] Yeah, and how many did you have? Because I feel like all throughout the year I was getting updates and it was like 20 something and down a little bit, down a little bit, and now you're at zero.  [00:18:41] Kelly: Yeah, I filled I think 17 units over the course of the last year. [00:18:45] Amazing.  [00:18:46] 10 of them were filled between September and now.  [00:18:50] Jason: Nice. Wow.  [00:18:50] Kelly: And I've got a few that are coming up. I've got, you know, two of my tenants are moving into senior housing. So, you know, that means I'm probably going to have to redo their apartments because they've been living there since like 1965 or whatever. [00:19:04] I'm sure they're going to need to be some updates.  [00:19:07] Jason: So in getting this business started, if you hadn't heard about DoorGrow, or say, DoorGrow didn't exist. Where would you be you think right now?  [00:19:15] Kelly: Oh my gosh.  [00:19:16] Jason: What'd be going on?  [00:19:17] Kelly: I'm not sure I'd still be doing it.  [00:19:19] Jason: You think you would have quit?  [00:19:20] Kelly: With this client that I took on from the beginning, if I didn't know any better, I would think this is what property management is. [00:19:27] Jason: And you'd be like, yeah, right, so talking with us saying you should probably fire this client was probably enough to go, "okay, this may not be everybody."  [00:19:35] Kelly: Right. [00:19:36] Jason: Okay. [00:19:36] Kelly: Right, right. And you know, and you also helped me work with this client. So he's still my client, and he could be a very good client now that his buildings are cash flowing. But that remains to be seen because I got a little pushback on a repair last night that I wasn't real happy with, but we'll see. [00:19:53] Jason: You're going to set some strong boundaries with this guy.  [00:19:56] Kelly: I might have to punch him in the face a third time.  [00:19:58] Jason: Metaphorically. Right, right. Metaphorically, we're not advocating violence. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Okay. All right. Well anything else that we should chat about or cover? I mean, it's really been, like I said at the beginning, it's been inspiring and exciting to see you grow. [00:20:13] We're really excited to see where you take this and we've seen just it and that's why we do what we do. It's great to see clients just grow like you've come so far. Your whole energy is just different. Just how you are from when we saw you at DoorGrow live and you're like, well, what's your time worth? [00:20:29] And you're, you've spouted off, "well, not very much," you know, or whatever you've come a long way. And I'm really excited to see where you go with this because this could be a really great residual income business. I think absolutely it will overshadow what you're making off your rental properties, but then it also feed you some more real estate deals in the future. [00:20:47] For sure as you, as you work this. And so, yeah, I think it'll be interesting. And how does the, the king of Gorilla Real Estate feel about everything that you're doing?  [00:20:56] Kelly: Oh, he's incredibly supportive. Yeah. I think he misses when I used to just, you know, clean up his bookkeeping for him. We now have to hire someone to do that. [00:21:05] Jason: Mm-hmm. Yes. Those wealthy problems. Yeah.  [00:21:07] Kelly: And yeah, and that's another mindset thing I need to get over. And you cover this in the rapid revamp when you're talking about, you know, the three types of clients you got, your, your normals, which you're, you're aiming for.  [00:21:18] Jason: Yeah.  [00:21:18] Kelly: But then you've got, you know, your cheapos and your premiums. [00:21:21] Sure.  [00:21:21] Jason: Yeah.  [00:21:21] Kelly: And and, and one of the things you talked about, the cheapos is. Are you a cheapo?  [00:21:27] Jason: Oh. Yeah.  [00:21:27] Kelly: And I realize that, yeah, I kind of am a cheapo.  [00:21:30] Jason: You get what you attract. Huh. And so, yeah, we're blind, we have a blind spot towards which category we are showing up as, and so stretching yourself to not be a cheapo. [00:21:41] Kelly: I grew up with nothing. You know, I grew up with nothing, so, yeah, that's why I'm a cheapo.  [00:21:47] Sarah: Yeah. And I get it, because I too was in that mindset, especially when I lived here.  [00:21:52] This area is in that mindset. [00:21:54] Yes, the whole area is very, and when you find someone who kind of breaks through that bubble, It's odd here, right? [00:22:03] And it's different. And it's weird. And it's like, what are they doing? What is this all about? This is just weird. Like, why are you not, you know, normal like us? And when that was something that I had struggled with for a very, very long time, too, because back when I had lived here, I thought, "okay, well, I want to make more money. And like, I need to make more money. And the only way I can do that is I can either work more hours and maybe get some overtime or maybe I can find a job that's going to pay me more and or ask for a raise, or and this is my go to strategy, was let's just work two jobs, three jobs, four jobs." I was working four jobs at a time. [00:22:44] I was working seven days a week and I did that for years and years and years just because, well, this job I maxed out on and I can't get any more money out of here, but I need more money, so, oh, let me just add on another job. Yeah, so I understand that completely and it was just, it was with time that that started to just crack and shift a little bit. [00:23:02] Jason: Kind of the trap of time for dollars. As if that's the only way.  [00:23:07] Sarah: Absolutely. Absolutely.  [00:23:09] Jason: So yeah, so being exposed just to other people that are not of that mindset probably is cracks that glass ceiling you spoke of a little bit before maybe.  [00:23:19] Kelly: Right. Yeah. And what I'm noticing is that I'm attracting people, local people, that have a similar mindset and they exist. [00:23:28] You know, there's a lot of entrepreneurs in this area. Chris Jones started Pepper Jam, and he decided to keep his company here.  [00:23:34] Sarah: Oh, wow.  [00:23:34] Kelly: Yeah, I mean, there's, there's a few. Tech company, you might have heard of them. But yeah, there's, there's a few.  [00:23:39] Jason: So, you are no longer a cheapo.  [00:23:42] Kelly: No. I, well, I'm working on it. [00:23:45] I'm working on it. I catch myself.  [00:23:46] Jason: You say... [00:23:47] Kelly: I am no longer a cheapo.  [00:23:49] Jason: I am more normal.  [00:23:51] Kelly: I am more normal.  [00:23:52] Jason: Graduating towards premium.  [00:23:53] Kelly: And I'm graduating towards premium.  [00:23:55] Jason: It's good to be premium. We get to decide this, right? We get to decide this. [00:24:00] And so as you stretch yourself into more premium experience and recognizing, like, money is not the painful thing to be focused on, there's, and there's better things to be focused on that are more valuable and more important, like your time. And as you put a greater and greater premium on your time, you shift out of that currency of cash being the, you know, the God of your life controlling you and then you can start to be grateful. [00:24:26] And I think one of the key things for everybody listening is when we start to celebrate all of the things that we used to complain about related to money, I think this is how we shift out of that poverty mindset is, oh, we got to pay this bill. Thank you God that I have lights and power that I'm able to afford to do this. [00:24:44] Or thank you that I'm able to do this. And when we start to be grateful instead of projecting pain every time we see or hear money, And we start to project gratitude, then we start to attract more money. Like we start to be open to that. And as we shift into normal, yeah, we attract more normals. As we shift into premium, we attract more premium clients. [00:25:05] And they recognize you. It's like, there's a knowing between you and them, like, yeah, this is how it works. You come to us and we take care of everything and we take care of you and you get a premium service and product and they're like, "yeah, that's what I want." because premium buyers, when they see people that are cheapos. [00:25:20] They can like kind of smell it on you, right? So then they're like, "I don't want to work with this person. They're not going to take care of my property the way that I would want or do things or take care of me the way that I want." And so investing in ourselves. Sometimes for me, one of my coaches said, "go get a massage, you know, go do things to invest or take care of yourself to where you feel like..." you know, anything where we say, I think the poverty mindset is we hear this voice that says, " I don't need that nicer car. You don't need to go get a massage. Why do you need that?" Normal and premium is about shifting beyond need, right? Need is scarcity, need is starving, and need is survival, and so, and then what happens is we have to create drama or problems in our life in order to justify taking time off, so we have to get sick, or we have to justify it. [00:26:09] Doing something and so when we shift out of that then we shift into a healthier state where we can decide I am going to take a vacation or I am going to take time off. I'm going to go to DoorGrow live. You should all go to DoorGrow live, so.  [00:26:20] Sarah: I highly recommend coming up in May!  [00:26:23] Jason: It's coming up in May. Go to doorgrowlive.Com. So, all right anything else we should touch on?  [00:26:28] Sarah: One thing and I don't know if I've ever said this on the coach a call where you've been on but for me, it was actually Roya Mattis. She, at the time, was in Mary Kay like, and I was in cosmetic sales for Mary Kay, and It was very early in my Mary Kay career and I was kind of learning how to be entrepreneur ish, right? [00:26:53] Like, "Oh, I can write these things off and I can do things differently" and, "Oh, this is an expense, but it's a good expense." And it was a lot of new things for me. And one of the things that she had said is and I'll never forget because it just stuck with me and I went, "Oh, okay." Yeah, I need to stop thinking like that right now. [00:27:11] Is " come tax time, there are people who can't wait for tax time because they're waiting. They're depending on that refund and they're like, 'Oh, thank God I get this refund.' Right?" [00:27:21] A lot of rent gets caught up in it. [00:27:23] It sure does. Yeah. Funny. All of a sudden they have money. So. Once you start really making money, though, you don't get refunds anymore. [00:27:33] What ends up happening is you pay money. And not only do you pay money into it, but you now are, like, quarterly paying money. But you don't have to do that if you're, like, barely scraping by, if you're not making money. So, what she said to me is, " when you're, like, rich and you're making money You're excited to pay this money because you're making so much money that now, not only are not going to get a refund, but you don't, you don't worry about the refund, you're making money and now you're paying the taxes and you are going to hit a point where you want to be paying taxes more often than just once a year because that means you've reached a certain level and now you're making a certain amount of money and your goal at that point is then going to be, 'well, how can I increase this?'" [00:28:24] And that for me, it just stuck in my head forever. And I went, "Oh. Oh, geez. I didn't even realize that." And at that time I was, I was. Like, "well, I'm going to get a couple thousand dollars back, like on my tax refund." I haven't gotten a refund in years. And it's true though. It's just a different way of thinking about things. [00:28:40] It's like, well, you know, if you make this tiny little bit of money and then I can get, you know, a couple thousand dollars back at the end of the year, or I can make a whole lot more money. And then, yes, I have to make some quarterly tax payments. Man, I'd rather make a lot more money and I'll just give the government some of it. [00:28:54] And then what you have to do is just figure out how can we reduce that as much as possible.  [00:28:59] Jason: I would love to see taxes just be reduced dramatically. So, we'll see.  [00:29:04] Kelly: But, who knows what they're going to do.  [00:29:05] Jason: I don't get super excited about paying taxes, but I do get excited. I would rather, like, see more income on my tax return. [00:29:13] You know taxes every time so.  [00:29:14] Sarah: Would you rather make the big amount of money so that you have to pay the taxes in or would you make a really small amount of money so that you get a refund?  [00:29:22] Kelly: Yeah, just a really good accountant that can help you zig when the government zags  [00:29:26] Sarah: So that that was something that she said to me and I went oh, okay, that is a very different way of thinking about it. [00:29:33] And it just, just stuck with me.  [00:29:35] Jason: Yeah. Always looking through the lens of 'why is this positive?' it's a healthy mindset for sure. Yeah. Why are taxes positive? All right. Everybody listening is like, "they're not."  [00:29:45] Sarah: I know. Right. Cool. My brother wants a shout out. So shout out to Jason.  [00:29:50] Jason: What's up, Jason? [00:29:51] Sarah: He's like, "you never shout me out!" Here, here you are. The three of us are waving to you now. So, what's up, Jason?  [00:29:58] Jason: No, he's got the same name as me. Everybody's like, what's that all about?  [00:30:01] He's dating a Sarah.  [00:30:03] Kelly: Oh!  [00:30:04] Jason: Which is funny. And you have a stepsister, that's Sarah, so he's got two, three Sarahs in his life right now. [00:30:13] Three Sarahs, two Jasons, and a partridge in a pear tree. All right. Cool. Well, Kelly, it's been great coming to hang out in your office and to meet you in person like here in Pennsylvania. Thanks for hosting the DoorGrow show and having us hang out with you and we're excited to see where you go and how you progress in the program and all the things you're going to do as you add doors. [00:30:36] And I think the future is really bright for Crimson Property Management, Crimson Cape. Hey, I missed the Cape. It's like superhero stuff here. Yes. I am. I love it. All right. And that's it. So if you are tuning in, make sure to check us out at DoorGrow. com. And if you are wanting to grow your property management business, or you are getting burnt out on it, or you are one of the many sucky property management companies that exist, you don't have to be. [00:31:04] It could be good. It could be better. Then reach out to us. We would love to help you scale and grow your business. We help people from startup all the way to breaking the thousand door barrier. Whatever your goal is reach out to us. Check us out at DoorGrow. com. Bye everyone.  [00:31:18] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:31:45] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

When moving from being a solopreneur to having a team, a lot of entrepreneurs struggle with hiring high-quality team members, creating accountability, and streamlining processes. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with award-winning coach and author Kon Apostolopoulos to talk all about unlocking your team's potential. You'll Learn [04:16] Hiring for Competance  [12:48] Leadership and Building a Team [29:19] Developing Team Members [49:42] Tough Love as a Business Owner Tweetables  ”They say the two most important days in your life are the day you come into this world and the day you figure out why.” “They all have their strategies, their business plans, but one thing for sure is that if they don't have the right people in place to execute those plans, they're not even worth the paper they're written on.” “If they're hiring for competence, it's probably a step up, because in most cases, people are hiring for a pulse.” “You can teach people the technical skills. You can't teach attitude. You can't teach certain behaviors. You can't teach integrity.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Kon: When we are appreciated, we always give more than what is expected of us. So when you are looking at it, build your team around that principle. Show people that you value them. Don't just say, you know what, you get a paycheck, don't you? This is why I brought you on. Do your damn job.  [00:00:16] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently then you are a DoorGrow property manager DoorGrow property managers, love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. [00:01:18] Now let's get into the show.  [00:01:21] All right. I, my guest today is coach Kon. So Kon, how do you say your last name? I want to make sure I don't mess it up.  [00:01:29] Kon: Wow. Well, first of all, thanks for having me, Jason. Last name is Apostolopoulos. It's as simple as it looks.  [00:01:37] Jason: Man, that is fun to say. Apostolopoulos.  [00:01:39] Kon: It rolls off the tongue. [00:01:40] Jason: Yeah. The closest thing that might be as fun was the Snuffleupagus.  [00:01:45] Kon: It's inspired from that.  [00:01:47] Jason: Okay. All right. We'll go, you know, all great ideas have an origin. All right. So Kon, we're going to be chatting a little bit today about the keys to engagement, resilience, high performance, unlocking team potential. [00:02:02] So before we get into that, I'd love to get a little bit of background on you. How did you get into doing coaching and you know, kind of share your origin story.  [00:02:12] Kon: Wow. Okay. So let's kind of take a look at this. First of all, I'll start with one of my favorite sayings. Because I do feel blessed. [00:02:19] It is the season for that kind of a feeling. You know, they say the two most important days in your life are the day you come into this world and the day you figure out why. And so to me, I have always gravitated towards being a coach, being a teacher, being a leader, stepping up and taking responsibility. [00:02:38] And so that's kind of shaped my life. Being the firstborn in a Greek household and the firstborn male at that. It's one of those situations where, Inevitably, you're thrust into that role, but I gravitated towards it, and I found myself, regardless of which industry I've been working in, everything from the military to cruise ships, from restaurants to call centers, from construction to coaching little kids' soccer, I've always been in a situation where I found myself in the role of coach, teacher, leader. You know, I've worked for large corporations. I've had my share of corporate where I've cut my teeth and I've learned a lot of the business secrets and the things that I needed to get. And in the last 12 years, I've hung my own single shingle and been in a situation where I've been able to help clients and transfer three decades of knowledge of managing talent, of being able to build engaged and resilient teams and helping them now achieve their goals. [00:03:34] And the way I do that is I explained to people that most of the companies that I work with have their business plans very much like the audience that we have here. They all have their strategies their business plans. But one thing for sure is that if they don't have the right people in place to execute those plans, they're not even worth the paper they're written on. And so to me, that's where I come in and sometimes that involves providing workshops to build competence. Sometimes that involves individual or group coaching to build commitment. Sometimes that's speaking at events for them to be able to get everybody on the same page. And ultimately that may involve helping them build the systems that they need so every dollar that they spend on their people is a dollar well spent.  [00:04:14] Jason: Got it. Okay. Now I think a lot of times that the challenge I see in a lot of companies is they're bringing in, it's often people are hiring just based on skill. That's the thing they're looking at is like, are they willing to do this job for this pay? Instead of looking for people that fit their values, fit the culture, have the right personality fit to actually be able to succeed in the role. [00:04:38] And so I call those things, the three fits. What have you seen related to this?  [00:04:42] Kon: When people go out and start hiring Jason, they typically do it out of need, and a lot of times they've let it go for so long that it becomes a desperation. If they're hiring for competence, it's probably a step up, because in most cases, people are hiring for a pulse. [00:04:56] They're trying to throw a body at a spot, and that's a desperate place to be in, unfortunately. Hiring process, the selection process, should be an ongoing thing. When you're looking at making sure that you have the right people on your team. That's an ongoing process to me. That's tending to your garden year round, to making sure that you have the right people in place year round. [00:05:17] The mantra that I teach my people is a three part piece, just like you were mentioning earlier. It's hire hard, train smart, manage easy. And to me that means basically being very picky about who I bring on my team. It's easy for people or it's easier for people to look at, do they have the skills? Because that's an yes or no answer most of the time, especially if you do it right. But what they don't realize is that you can teach people the technical skills. You can't teach attitude. You can't teach certain behaviors. You can't teach integrity. You're bringing somebody in your team in their thirties. [00:05:50] If you have to teach them how to be honest, that's too late in the game.  [00:05:54] Jason: Yes.  [00:05:55] Kon: So hire for the attitude, like you were talking about the things that are harder to teach, and then you can teach them smartly about the business that you want. If you have a right person in the right spot, they can do wonders. [00:06:09] Jason: Yeah, I've noticed this. I've noticed this as well. One of the things I've noticed is I call it the process myth. I see a lot of businesses, you know, a lot of entrepreneurs go through this journey of graduating from solopreneur to having a team, right? And that's usually one of the most painful transitions they go through. [00:06:25] It's because they have no clue how to do the hiring correctly. And they're hiring the way a solopreneur sort of thinks. And they're usually hiring based on what they think the business needs. Like you said, out of need, maybe they graduate to desperation. Maybe they graduate to competence, as you said, but at that stage, they usually believe the process myth. [00:06:43] I've run into this a lot where they think they just need better processes. If they just had better processes, their team would actually perform well. Like, I just need to micromanage them more. I need more KPIs. I need more metrics. And what I've noticed is, this weird dichotomy, I've noticed that in companies that have great culture and they have a great team, they have great people, but they even have shitty processes, they still perform well, even without great process documentation, but I've seen companies that have like process documentation, like crazy, and they focus on this heavily, but they don't have the right people. And they're never able to perform well. There's no amount of process documentation or micromanaging or controls that can make a mediocre team with maybe the wrong attitude or wrong culture fit or wrong values to perform well. [00:07:35] Kon: No, I agree with you there. When you look at why people try to heavily process things, it's because they don't feel confident in people's decision making and abilities. They tried to legislate everything. They tried to create a way. We used to have a saying that, you know, every time you think you idiot proof something with a process, they come up with better idiots. [00:07:55] And that's a situation where you have to be very careful. You put a good person in a bad process, the process is going to win. So you have to be very careful because when we evolve this piece and we take it to its natural conclusion, which is why do we hire good people or try to find good people? [00:08:12] Why do we try to create processes that can produce results? It's to get performance. It's to increase performance, to become more predictably good. That's ultimately what we're doing. Performance is about results. When you look at your metrics that you were talking about, you're a pro, you do this and you know exactly what you're trying to do. [00:08:31] You have a methodology, you have a way of doing things, you have a philosophy about how you go about things because you know it works and you know it works well enough for you and for others that you're comfortable going out and sharing that message with others. Well, when you talk about performance, performance happens at three different dimensions. [00:08:50] Think about it like a Venn diagram, three overlapping circles. One is organizationally. How are we set up? How are we set up? Our culture our vision, our messages, our values, all of those things that we want to set ourselves up with. And then you have the process. How do things hand off from one person to the next? [00:09:10] What does the customer journey look like? What does the experience with us look like? How do we engage with each other? And then ultimately, it's the individual level. Do we have the right people on the right seat on the bus going in the right direction? Do they have the skills, knowledge, ability, attitudes that we're looking for to get things done? [00:09:29] So when people say, we're struggling to improve our performance, they automatically Only look at one, maybe two of those areas, not realizing that you need all three of those to hit in order to be at optimal level, when you've reached your peak in your performance, all three of those things are in place. [00:09:47] You've organized the team. Well, you've got your systems in place and you've hired the right people.  [00:09:52] Jason: Yeah, I love this. You know, they say all truth gravitates towards itself, you know, so to speak. And so I actually draw a Venn diagram for clients and they teach them a framework called the three fits and your organization, I would just call culture, this is, do they share your values? Is there alignment there? Because otherwise you'll never be able to trust them. So you want one offload to them and then you always want to micromanage them. And then for process, I usually call that a skill fit. And the question there is, do they have the intellectual capacity to be able to develop the skill or do they already possess it? And that's the one that maybe the needle can be moved on right like you had mentioned they could maybe be trained, but some people are untrainable. They just don't have the intellectual capacity for that particular role. They just won't get there. [00:10:38] You can train and you'll just demoralize yourself, right? And then as then when you mentioned kind of people this is where I look at the personality fit. Are they the right personality for the role? Not everybody can be great or enjoy doing cold calling. Not everybody could be great or enjoy doing accounting, right? [00:10:57] And that means that they would love doing the role if they're the right personality fit, which means you don't have to motivate them. You don't have to try and push them to do it. And they, if they don't have that, they'll just never be great. And so I love this. Like it's always validating to see alignment when somebody's kind of graduated to this knowledge set on their own and see that, Hey, we both kind of arrived at a similar conclusion. [00:11:22] Kon: So, well, the truth is pretty universal and that's how we get there. We each discovered in our own way and application, but even with my company is called Fresh Biz Solutions and the the origin of the name and the philosophy behind that name is that I've worked, as I mentioned, in very diverse industries across continents, across countries, across boundaries. [00:11:45] And what I found is people are people. The needs are fairly universal. And so something, a process, an idea, a solution that works well in one industry, when you take it, look at it, dust it off, repurpose it, repackage it, it can work just as well in another industry. Why? Because you're dealing with people. [00:12:05] You're dealing with principles that are universal. And so, there is no need to reinvent the wheel. There is a need for us to find what works and continue to apply it. In different situations.  [00:12:17] Jason: Absolutely. And you know, my personal sort of mission statement is to inspire others to love true principles. I love figuring out what works and sharing it with other people. [00:12:25] That's just fun for me. I would do that for free for fun. And yeah, so, so I get that. And yeah, there's, you know, a whole business book might be just written about one principle, you know, and there's that one nugget that you can pull out of it. But yeah if, you know, as I'm always seeking for those principles and those ideas, I'm then able to share and benefit others and it can be applied to a variety of different situations. [00:12:48] Yeah. Love that. So how do people go about doing this? It's like, usually entrepreneurs are very, you know, focused on just hiring based on as you said, need, desperation, competence. How do you graduate them through this? [00:13:03] Kon: So when we look at the process, I mean, we, when solopreneurs graduate, like you said, when you have, when you've been working on your own for a long time and you decide to bring on team members, one of the mistakes that we make is that we think that everybody is motivated the same way we are. Everybody sees the same vision that we do. [00:13:20] And that's just not the case. Yeah. We don't have that luxury. There's not enough people there that automatically will instinctively know what you're working on and really align themselves. Most of the time you have to do some connection of the dots for them. You have to explain to them why you're doing what you're doing and how they fit into this. [00:13:39] This is part of my engagement model that I talk about in my new book, The Engagement Blueprint. And the principles here are universal, whether it's one person or 1000 on your team. You can look at it and say the same thing. The way to understand this is that when you are leading a team, you're bringing people onto your team. [00:13:57] You're developing them. You're aligning them. What are you trying to do? You're trying to amplify the reach that you have as an individual. You're trying to get more done through your team, but through your team is the key because you need the voluntary contribution of these people. They need to want to do this. [00:14:13] Otherwise, it's a slog. It's a heavy lift to constantly micromanage people That's where the heavy processing comes in. You're chasing them around and the property trying to figure out where are they on where they supposed to? Be are they on their computer? Are they? responding to the needs? [00:14:29] How are they dealing with my clients? You're constantly living on edge and you're in fear and uncertainty all the time. My methodology is all about taking the uncertainty out of that and making sure that when you invest in your people, you know you're going to get a return on that investment. You know that basically they are an extension of you. [00:14:49] Now, the way to go about it is to understand that there are four key drivers of engagement for people. I mean, I've done my homework, I've spent almost two years researching the topic, talked to some pretty smart people across the globe, and pulled together 30 years of experience looking at this. And the four drivers start, first and foremost, with the need that we all have to feel valued. [00:15:10] When we are appreciated, we always give more than what is expected of us. So when you are looking at it, build your team around that principle. Show people that you value them. Don't just say, you know what, you get a paycheck, don't you? This is why I brought you on. Do your damn job. It's easy to say that. [00:15:28] Jason: Yeah, there's a lot of bosses that think because they grew up sort of in that culture and they, it's kind of the dinosaur boss that says, "well, I pay you, so just do your work," like it's very transactional.  [00:15:40] Kon: Correct. And when it's transactional, you lose so much because people will only do up to a certain point and then you have to keep telling them what is part of that transaction. [00:15:49] So. When people are appreciated though, they will continue to find ways to support and help you and do more. When you realize that it's all about that discretionary effort, engagement is about discretionary effort, giving that little bit extra because you feel first and foremost valued. And the way you do that, I mean, here are some ideas that Our audience can go out and do right now. [00:16:13] First and foremost, think about how you can create an environment that is safe for your people. Physically, mentally, emotionally, psychologically. I mean, if you're in a situation where you have people out there physically doing work, they're climbing up to clear gutters to do certain things, make sure the environment is safe. [00:16:32] Set a protocol so people can feel safe. Emotionally, if you're in a meeting, make sure that people feel comfortable telling you the ugly truth sometimes, the information that you need to make decisions. If people feel like there'll be chastised or reprimanded for telling you the truth, those stops sharing that information with you, and you will lose opportunities there. [00:16:52] Make sure that people feel that you appreciate them or that they can bring their whole self to work because if they can bring their whole self to work, they'll bring their best self to work. And then ultimately, even if you only have five minutes a week to spend with each one of your people, make sure that those five minutes, you're present, give them your attention. [00:17:13] I mean, these are simple ways that when you ask somebody, "how are you doing?" You pause enough to get the answer to that. That tells people you value them and then say, thank you. You know what? I really appreciate the fact that you treat this property like it's your own, that you take care of our guests, that you take care of our clients, that you went above and beyond. [00:17:34] You'll get more of what you're looking for when you do that. So that's one key driver things that people can go out and do right now simple things  [00:17:42] Jason: Yeah, I think yeah that first item you mentioned feeling valued or feeling appreciated It's interesting because what i've noticed is on a lot of DISC assessments, there's the values index and most entrepreneurs I think focus on things being transactional and focus on trying to motivate people through money because they mistakenly assume that everybody likes money. [00:18:01] And the economic score and a values index for most people is low except for entrepreneurs and salespeople typically. And if the economic score is low, that means they're more recognition motivated. So this is very much in alignment with the appreciation aspect, right? A lot of entrepreneurs are trying to throw money at people when they could save that money and just appreciate them and recognize them. [00:18:25] And they would get far more output. [00:18:27] Kon: But even with entrepreneurs and salespeople, Jason, I mean, look at us from this perspective: we all love being appreciated, but even with the money piece, if I'm driven towards money, it's rarely about the dollar bill itself. It's about what that represents for me. [00:18:41] And for entrepreneurs, sometimes it's a recognition of their arrival, their accomplishment. For some people, it's a representation of financial security that gives them the freedom, the life that they want. That's what you see. When you see all of these people advertising these solutions that produce money for people, what are they putting out there? [00:19:01] The big houses. The freedom, the lifestyle, the cars, all of that stuff. That's what that a big part of what that represents. It's never just about the money, but it's just as much for your entry level laborer in your property that's going around cleaning out things. For them, that money means security. [00:19:20] That means that I am a paycheck away from living on the street. And that's what you need to understand. What is driving? I mean, you mentioned the word motivating earlier, and it's important for our audience to understand that you cannot motivate another person. That is a falsehood. Motivation is an intrinsic process. [00:19:39] Psychologically, you cannot do that to somebody else. All you can do is create the right environment where people will feel self motivated.  [00:19:49] Jason: Yeah.  [00:19:50] Kon: This is the proverbial. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a drink unless it's thirsty.  [00:19:55] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. I love that. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make a drink. [00:20:00] But you can salt its oats, correct? Another phrase that I love is "whenever we fail to inspire, we always control." [00:20:08] Kon: Correct. And that's the part where you want to drive that you want to create the environment for anybody that's spent any time out there trying to go fishing. You realize that not every fish likes the same bait. [00:20:23] So you have to put the right bait out there to attract and inspire that fish to bite. And it's the same with your people. The job of a leader is to really set the course, give them a plan, give them the reason why, and the how becomes "this is how I want to motivate you." I want you to achieve your goals by helping me achieve our goals. [00:20:44] That's the second driver, connection. We are tribal creatures, Jason. Part of the reason why we all wear uniforms, for example, at a job, or the same t shirts, is because we want to belong to the same tribe. That builds bonds, camaraderie, connection to people. I mean, think about the last time you met somebody in a crowd that's from the same hometown, went to the same university, supports the same sports team. [00:21:08] I mean, you go to a stadium, there's 50, 000 people wearing the same jersey as you, and you feel connected to them.  [00:21:13] Jason: Yeah.  [00:21:13] Kon: And so people crave that.  [00:21:15] Jason: I just went to one of those Texas Football games that at the university here and yeah, it's like, it's crazy.  [00:21:22] Kon: Correct. So people want to feel part of a team. [00:21:26] And so in order to do that, use your team building skills. Make sure that people understand what it is that you're going after. What game are you playing? Are you playing football? Are you playing tennis? What are you playing? These are different games. Make sure that people understand what's the game, what's the values, how are we going to get there? [00:21:42] And then create that bond and respect between you and each team member while you're building the bonds between the team members themselves. And give people a path so they can see how they can achieve their aspirations by working with you and the team. We talked about that. If my goal is to make sure that I secure a paycheck because I'm financially insecure to pay my bills, or you know what, I have to support my kids, show me how to do that. [00:22:07] Show me how to get there. If my goal is to become the best salesperson in the region, show me how to do that. Because that way, when you align their goals and yours you can unleash huge energy and potential because people will be striving because it's a win win. They don't have to do your goals instead of theirs. [00:22:25] They don't have to sacrifice one for the other. That alignment really gives them permission to give their best.  [00:22:32] Jason: Yeah, we're looking at the proverbial win, like if there isn't a win, it's win lose and either we're going to lose or they're going to lose. So correct. So this kind of speaks to their needing to be for connection. [00:22:42] There needs to be alignment in you know, mission.  [00:22:45] Kon: Correct. And that's what you hire for. Back to your original question. If you find people that are aligned because this is what they want to do and you can show them how they can fulfill their personal mission by working with the team to achieve its mission. [00:22:59] That's where the win, that's where the secret sauce is. That alignment truly alleviates the need to micromanage because when they are confronted with a choice, they will make the right choice because their why is intact. They understand why they're doing something. It's easier for them to take that personal accountability for themselves and for the team. [00:23:19] Jason: A lot of business owners don't even know their why, which is why they're running into these sort of mistakes.  [00:23:24] Kon: Correct. Again, because they are operating at a very tactical transactional level. They're not elevating to their higher self. I mean when you look at it, the people that achieve the greatest things are the ones that have a purpose behind them They are driven by that when you have purpose driven organizations They will always outperform the others the same way that engaged organizations when they harness that power from their team will always outperform their competitors by a lot i'm talking about 20 percent more in operating revenues. [00:23:56] I'm talking three times the profitability. I'm talking almost nine out of 10 people say "I have no reason to go anywhere else." So you're keeping your best and brightest and probably attracting your competitors' best and brightest.  [00:24:09] Jason: Absolutely. I've seen a three times the output from a team if they align with the culture the personality and the values and you know, all that easily three times the output. And that's the biggest, one of the biggest profit levers in a business because the biggest expense in a business is the people and those all connected with people.  [00:24:29] Kon: Correct. And when you start looking at that at that line item in your P and L. [00:24:33] As truly an investment, you're going to approach it very differently because you're going to be smart about where you put the money. I mean, it's the same way you wouldn't find a temporary solution to fix something in your buildings. You want to find a solution that makes sense, the best return on that investment. [00:24:48] And that's where, for example, you come in and you look at the productivity piece, which is the third driver. People want to know that they contribute, that they make a difference, Jason. I mean, the example that I give in my coaching and my training sessions on this topic is If I was to give you a team photo from a recent event that you were together with a group of people, what's the first thing that most of us would do, you think? [00:25:12] Jason: If you were to give a team photo,  [00:25:14] Kon: if I was to give you a team photo that you were in of a recent event, you were there with your team. Let's say you're celebrating something and there's 15 of you on this, in this picture. What's the, one of the first things that you would do? I just handed you that picture. [00:25:27] Jason: I would look to see if everyone's happy.  [00:25:31] Kon: Or even where you are, right? People want to know where they fit into this picture.  [00:25:34] Jason: Oh yeah. If it's a new photo, I'd be like, I'd look at myself first.  [00:25:37] Kon: Yeah. Right. Yeah. So most of us will take a look at that picture and say, Hey, where am I in this picture? And then look around and say, Oh, I can see Steve smiling. [00:25:44] I can see Mary over there. She looked like she was having a good time. All the men. Now we see where we fit into this bigger picture. It's the same thing for entrepreneurs. Show your people where they fit in. Show them that even the most menial task. Joe, thank you for cleaning up that mess over there. You know what, that represents the standard that we have here at the property. [00:26:04] When you did that, that made a big difference. Somebody passing by will look at us and know that we care about this property. They will care about it. That's contagious. And you know what, Billy last week tripped on a mess like that and now he's twisted his ankle and now he's out for three months and now you have to do his job as well. [00:26:21] So thank you for taking care of that. So nobody else got hurt. That tells people That even the most menial task has a purpose they can connect the dots when people feel like they can contribute in meaningful ways, they can be productive your systems your processes allow them to be productive back to our starting point. They will flourish. They want to make a difference. [00:26:43] You're going to spend time at work. Anyway, we spent what a third of our day typically at work at least unless you're an entrepreneur and then you're probably spending a lot more But the thing is are you making a difference? How are you impacting others when you can do that, that fuels you that makes a difference When I see the light bulb go on in my clients and the people that I coach the people that I teach, that is fuel to me. That fuels my passion about what I do. [00:27:10] And so knowing that I make a difference, knowing that people come back to me and say, you know what, I applied your technique, your system, what you recommended, what we discovered together, and it made a difference. That is power. That is a driver. And people want to know that they contribute. You see it in volunteers, Jason, all the time. [00:27:29] They're not doing it for the money. They're going out there because they believe in what they're doing, that what they're doing makes a difference. Get that volunteer spirit on your team. Get them excited about what they're doing, knowing that they can make a difference. That's power.  [00:27:43] Jason: Yeah. It's amazing. You look at churches as a business, they have a lot of people just volunteering. You look at open source software initiatives. They have a lot of people that are working their day job, but their passion hobby is to contribute to this open source thing for free. You know? Exactly.  [00:28:00] Kon: I spent recently 25 hours a week or more coaching kids soccer. [00:28:06] I didn't do it for the money. I did it because I wanted to see that passion. To me, I believed in what I was doing and I was making a difference. I teach girls, especially I coach girls. Why? Because I believe that when we can teach young women how to advocate for themselves, tap into their leadership abilities from a young age, and they know that they can perform well as individuals, as team members, as team leaders, they become better leaders tomorrow, and we need more of those leaders tomorrow. I'm working with the early generations now, so in the future I don't have to go in and try to change the mind of 40 year old executives  [00:28:45] Jason: Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when they're young and they won't depart from it. Right.  [00:28:51] Kon: Teach them those foundational pieces. [00:28:53] They become better. I mean, I have kids, I've won and lost games and tournaments and championships, but you know what the biggest reward for me is? When I have a kid coming back to me years later and say, coach, thank you. I still love the game because of you. And these are the things that I've accomplished because of the life skills that I learned playing on your team. [00:29:12] Yeah. That stuff that they pick up from you, I'm sure applies to everything.  [00:29:18] Correct. And then finally, the last driver is people need to feel supported to learn and grow. Speaking of coaching and developing, I liken this Jason to the example of water. Water is a life source, right? Right. But a swamp is water, so is a river. [00:29:34] The difference between the two is the flow, is the is the movement. Nobody wants to be caught up in a swamp in their careers, in their jobs. Everybody wants a flowing river, and they want to know that there's a path, there's a career path for them, there's a way for them to grow. Even if, like you said, they might be limited by their own abilities to some extent, or their own desires, to some extent, show them how they can be the best in the current role that they're in. [00:30:01] Maybe they're not going to be promoted to the next general manager managing a hundred units, but maybe there's somebody who can teach and mentor a young person coming in to your business, and they can offer value through that. Maybe that becomes part of what they do. So there is room for everybody to continue to learn and grow. [00:30:18] Give them that opportunity. This is the train smart, the growth part where everybody has a sense of, I'm showing up to work and I'm a little bit better than I was yesterday, or that there's a clear career path because if they can't find the path in your business, they're going to try to find it somewhere else. [00:30:36] Jason: Sure. Yeah. Nobody wants to feel stuck or stagnant. And, you know, I think that's what our soul craves. Our soul craves growth. I think that I think a lot of people mistakenly, I think the point of, you know, Life of marriage of everything that people recommend that maybe you do is to be happy. I think the point I think happiness is a more mediocre goal than growth. [00:30:59] I think the point is growth. That doesn't always mean you're going to be happy, right? And I love your water analogy. I've heard a similar analogy before where it's like, which would you rather drink? The From the crazy wild raging river or the stagnant puddle in front of your house Right. And it's that sort of turbulence and challenge that purifies the water and that makes it a much safer environment to drink from. [00:31:26] Kon: Absolutely. And I mean, my, my first book was all about managing crisis and about managing sudden change. And even in that you realize that crisis presents opportunities on the flip side of it. Crisis is not all bad. Crisis means that, you know what? Hey, things are being shaken up big time unexpectedly, but who wouldn't want to be? I mean you think about crises over time I mean in 2008 prior to 2008 we didn't have you know Airbnb and uber eats or ubers in general you didn't have any of that stuff I mean, after the crisis of 2008, people got creative and they found new ways of dealing things, you know, sharing out rooms in their house, renting things out, short term rentals, looking at opportunities to replace cabs, using their cars smartly. [00:32:12] You look at the recent pandemic crisis. I mean, wouldn't you have liked to have stocks in some of these virtual meeting rooms, Zoom and others? Wouldn't that be great to have that beforehand because that was an opportunity all of a sudden everybody's gone virtual. So this is important for us to understand. [00:32:27] Growth comes sometimes through turbulence, through upheaval, you know, things change either as an evolution progressively, slowly, or as a revolution.  [00:32:38] Jason: Yeah. Crisis equals opportunity. Correct. If that's your mindset, otherwise it equals something horrible.  [00:32:45] Kon: I mean, there's a lot of entrepreneurs that aspire to the mantra, especially when they're in the DISC profile. [00:32:50] When you say about the D's, the dominant ones, you look at it and you say, if it ain't broke, break it. That's the mantra. Right.  [00:32:58] Jason: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, cool. So we've got four items feel valued, appreciated. Number one, these are the four key drivers, the drivers of revenue, performance, everything else. [00:33:09] Kon: Engagement and engagement leads to the performance. Right.  [00:33:12] Jason: Okay. So we've got number one, feeling value. Number two, connection. Maybe we should stick all of our team members in the same t shirts. I don't know. And, you know, making them feel like a team. Make it feel like a soccer team. Maybe I don't know number three productivity, meaning they feel like they're contributing to something that contribution I think is something that entrepreneurs deeply crave and they want to feel like they have impact And then number four supported to learn and grow,  [00:33:40] correct.  [00:33:40] Kon: Yeah. For the four drivers. I mean, this is basically the 80 20 rule. When you can do those four things, that'll get you the majority of the way there to really create an engaged team and engaged workforce with you as a leader. I mean, think about it this way. Leaders contribute about 70 percent of the variance between an average team And a high performing team. [00:34:03] 70 percent of that difference comes from your leadership style. If you apply these simple four principles, these simple four drivers to your business, and you start engaging your people, you can transform your workplace to win in the marketplace. You're igniting the fire in your people without burning them out. [00:34:22] That's essential.  [00:34:24] Jason: And if you have bad team members, but you have these four things, they're just not going to fit. They're not going to want to stick around. I mean, if everybody's feeling valued, there's connection that, you know, there's focus on making a difference and people are supported, learn and grow. [00:34:37] It's going to be obvious. Like there's going to be these B players that no matter how appreciated they are, they're just, or there's nothing to appreciate or that, you know, they don't want to be a team player. They don't care about the connection with other people. They aren't productive. They don't feel, they don't care if they're making a difference. [00:34:53] They just wanted like, kind of basically they want to complain about you, their boss and live for the weekend. Correct. And they are, and they don't care about growth. They're like, they're just showing up that it's going to be very obvious that they're not a culture fit.  [00:35:06] Kon: And so that's where you look at it. [00:35:08] And now bringing a full circle back to your original piece of staffing. Now, you know, where your holes are now, you know, where the gaps are, and now, you know, what you're looking for. And then you can enlist the help of the rest of your team to bring them on board, to be part of this group, to really embrace your culture. [00:35:24] It's a lot easier once you get this in motion to be able to have this operate because it's a self sustaining organism. It's a community. I mean, one of the biggest things that I tell people in the last closing part of the book is I let them know that people think the grass is greener on the other side. [00:35:44] It's not. The grass is greener where you water it. Sure. So you need to take care of your patch of grass. You need to make sure that you apply these principles, and then that rest will take care of itself. The grass that's flourishing will crowd out the weeds. It'll take care of all of those different things. [00:36:03] Your people, through their own empowerment, they will see your business as their own, and they will start monitoring and managing this process with you. And for you, because that's the power of true engagement. Now you've got people that feel that personal accountability, that ownership, because they feel empowered. [00:36:20] Jason: Yeah. If the grass isn't green on your side of the fence and you're the business owner, the problem is you, this is a leadership factor. I had one of my mentors, he used to say to me, he said, he'd say, Jason, If you don't yet have the business of your dreams, it's because you're not yet the person that can run it yet. [00:36:39] And you know, that's good medicine, but a bitter pill to accept, you know, in moments for a lot of people. But yeah, I think Yeah, I think it's greener where you water it. And if you, if I love these four principles, if you can align your team around this, that creates a really good culture. [00:36:56] The environment then is safe. People are feeling appreciated. And then you're moving people eventually out of just this transactional leadership into moving them towards a transformational leadership that turns them into leaders.  [00:37:11] Kon: Correct. Correct. Because you want leaders at all levels. I mean, great leaders don't create followers. They create more leaders. So you want to be able to empower people and set them in the right direction. You know, create those leaders at all levels of the organization and that way they all feel empowered to take ownership of, they see something that needs to be fixed. They fix it. They need somebody who's struggling. They're going to reach out. They need to communicate information. They will communicate that information because they feel empowered and they feel like leaders. And that's what leaders do. If you just have followers, if you just have people out there that are waiting for you to tell them what to do. [00:37:49] That's a lot of work.  [00:37:50] Jason: Yeah. I think that's the challenge is when the way a solopreneur thinks, you know, they start hiring and they're not hiring usually based on what they need as a business or they're hiring based on what the business needs. And so eventually they have an entire team. Yeah. And their first initial team, usually I've noticed, is the wrong team. [00:38:11] They built a team around the wrong puzzle piece. They're showing up involved in wearing hats and doing things they don't really enjoy doing, and they built an entire team around that. And so by default, And the way I get them to realize this, I say, look, if you've got, if you're, you have an entire team and you are still wearing all the hats you don't enjoy wearing or involved in all the things you don't enjoy doing, then by default, you have to have the wrong team. [00:38:38] Kon: I would agree with that. Again, your job is not to sit here and do everybody else's job. The people that you bring onto your team should be willing to do their job and then start reaching at the next level to start taking on more because you've empowered them and you want them to grow. That's the big part of this. [00:38:54] It's a difference between leading a team and doing the work. Just like in even in an organization, but especially when you're an entrepreneur, the first thing that you're going to need to let go of when you start creating a team is the thing that probably got you there. All of the things that you did well, if you're the top performer on your team, you got a problem. [00:39:14] That's a big problem. You need to now start thinking of it as, I need to create a team of high performers as opposed to me being a high performer. And that's a very different thing for salespeople, for managers, for people that have done well in the past. They've done well and they've probably reached this level. [00:39:30] Either they got promoted to a job to the next level, or they started their own business with that mindset, but they have to stop competing with their people. They have to start teaching all of the good things that they've learned that made them successful. So they can now build the team around them. [00:39:47] There's a reason why from the famous Bulls team of the nineties. Why Michael Jordan, the best player potentially in history, is not a coach, as opposed to Steve Kerr, who was on his team and probably was a big player on the Bulls team, but an important one. Steve Kerr understood what it took to become successful. [00:40:08] He watched some of the best. He played with some of the best. He learned how to teach that. Michael worked hard, tirelessly, but at the same time. Steve had so many natural talents, things that came so naturally to him that those things were very difficult, if not impossible for him to teach. So, whereas Steve, with his limitations physically and his talent, understood how to take good players and make them great. [00:40:35] Jason: You know, I love this example. Michael Jordan, though, before he had the right system, was just a showboat. Before he had Phil Jackson, a good coach, before he had Scottie Pippen and the team that he had. That Phil Jackson built around Michael Jordan's abilities. He wasn't winning championships.  [00:40:54] Kon: Correct.  [00:40:55] Jason: It was just a showboat. [00:40:56] And this is, you know, a good analogy when we can take really good people and put them into the right, we create the right environment, the right system. We give them the right system. Then they become. Become rock stars.  [00:41:08] Kon: Correct. And they shine in that. And you see that sometimes like you call them a system quarterback because they shine in that system. [00:41:15] And the thing is at the end of the day, what are you building? You're not building a place to showcase individuals per se. This is not even about the owner or the entrepreneur to some extent. That's not the vanity piece. You want a successful business. You want to be able to build that around people that can get things done for your clients so you can have success however you define success, whether it's the revenues, the profits, the customer satisfaction. [00:41:38] I mean, those are the three key drivers that all businesses are founded on. And then you look at that and you say, okay, It's not about me. And we've got big companies that went to the toilet because their CEOs thought it was all about them. And that's part of the problem. Part of the challenge, Jason, you look at it and say, okay, when did you start building a team? [00:41:56] It's about the team. It's about how are you performing as an organization? It doesn't matter how many followers I have on social media or how many likes I get on my posts, if my business is in the toilet.  [00:42:08] Jason: Yeah. I think one of the challenges I see is that. In the beginning of the journey for entrepreneurs, is there a solopreneur, there's a lot of ego, and there's a lot of self belief they need in order to get started because there's a lot of difficulty, a lot of friction, the challenges that creates a hindrance in the future. [00:42:24] Because one of the initial things I noticed that a lot of solopreneurs believe when they start hiring is what I call the clone myth. They think I just need to clone myself. I need to go find somebody like me cause I'm so special and so adaptable and so important. I need to go find somebody like myself. [00:42:39] And then they wonder why this person maybe steals their clients and eventually starts their own business. Cause you know, they're, that if somebody's like, yeah, instead of finding people that are better than them, and this is kind of the next level, they don't think that people can be better than them. [00:42:54] And my goal is to hire people that are way better at me on all the things that I don't enjoy doing. That's not difficult to do if I don't enjoy doing it I'm, definitely not going to be the best at it and I can definitely find people that are better at it And then when we hire people and then we treat them transactionally, it's like here's a task you return a report and do it, our team members then don't feel safe as you talked about to make decisions. The safest thing is to abdicate all the thinking decision making to me because then they're not responsible for the outcome. [00:43:26] And so this, there's kind of this graduation of having to learn to let go of going from a transactional leadership system to a strategic or sort of planning system where they have outcomes and goals and we'll do whatever's required in order to achieve it by a deadline instead of just being told what to do because you're the smartest person in the room, so to speak. [00:43:47] Kon: Yeah, I mean a couple of things. Let's unpack that for a second if I may. First of all, I aspire to the idea that like you, you have masterminds, you have groups that you coach, you work with people in a group setting as well as one on one. If I find myself being the smartest person in a mastermind in a group, that's the wrong group for me to be in. [00:44:04] Jason: Yeah. Right. So that's the first thing of being in the group. That's one of the best benefits of being in a mastermind is being able to be around other people that excel in different areas, you know, over what you do.  [00:44:18] Kon: Yeah. Correct. So that's number one. Number two, when you are constantly just telling your people what to do and you're asking them to delegate or you're taking ownership of all the thinking you are teaching learned helplessness. [00:44:31] You see it in parents of teenage kids. When you do all of the thinking for them and you just say, "fine, I'll just do it" or "clean up your room. You haven't cleaned it up to my expectations." Well, guess what? Why don't you explain the expectations and show them how to do it?  [00:44:47] You cannot do that. There's a time and a place. [00:44:49] To be very directive with people when they're first learning a task, you want to basically be very highly directive with them. You want to show them step by step how to do that. And as they become more confident and capable, then you start letting go. It's like you take off the training wheels. When you're teaching a kid how to ride a bike, you're not all of a sudden going to stick them on this racing bike and just push them down the hill. [00:45:11] You want to progressively give them a chance to learn and grow from that. That's how you do with your people. Don't expect them all of a sudden to have mastered that. They're not going to be where you are. Show them progressively how to master each step. That takes time, but that's the job of a leader. [00:45:25] Most people look at why "I don't have time to do that." Well, what are you doing? Where are you spending your time? Because to me as a leader, that is your time. You brought these people on, you're paying them a salary.  [00:45:36] Jason: How do people create this learned helplessness? Because people are doing it and they're kind of blind to it. [00:45:42] I would imagine.  [00:45:43] Kon: Correct. Because they keep saying, well, I don't have time to stop and teach you this. Just give it to me. And when you add all of these things onto your plate, time after time, 30 minutes for this, two hours for that four hours for this one day for this, all of a sudden your plate is overflowing and you've taught everybody around you to sit around and wait for you to do it. [00:46:03] Yeah. Because yes, it might take you longer in the moment to teach somebody how to do that task, but that is compounding interest because the next time they'll do it more and more, they'll eventually get good at it. Perhaps even better than you at something, but the fact of the matter is that you are taking off that time over the course of time off your plate. [00:46:26] That's freeing you up to do the other things that you need to be doing. You cannot afford to try to be, again, the best player on your team. If you are, that's a problem. Why did you hire these people?  [00:46:38] Jason: Yeah, it's like we need to trust them with outcomes and give them outcomes to achieve, goals to achieve, instead of just telling them what to do all the  [00:46:47] Kon: time and giving them that. [00:46:47] Correct. That's the paradox. Most people want to measure outputs as opposed to outcomes. Yes, outputs have a place. How many hours did you spend on this? How many calls did you make? How many widgets did you produce? Yes, I get that part, but overall measure people's success based on outcomes, because maybe you care about effort, but most of us care about results in this business. [00:47:12] Jason: You know, this is one of the things when we coach clients on the operational side of things that we've noticed is that, and we have this formula for the ultimate job descriptions we call R docs, and one of the key sections that are usually missing from job descriptions is results. [00:47:27] This is, you know, they'll have the role of the responsibilities, but there's no methodology in this for prioritization, right? And we want to pay as business owners, we want to pay for outcomes. That's really what we want. We're desiring outcomes. We're desiring results. And so I think just clarity on helping our team members understand Why they're doing certain things and understanding why it matters and then understanding what are the outcomes or the results that we want? We get far better results, you know, not so surprisingly. [00:47:56] So, yeah, so be around others that exceed expectations, love the idea of learned helplessness.  [00:48:04] Kon: Yeah. I mean, we condition our people to do certain things a certain way. I mean, we teach them how to do it and from our behaviors, the things we tolerate, the things we accept, the things that we focus on. All of that is sending clear messages to our team about what matters. [00:48:19] We, whether we realize it or not, we're constantly training them and educating them based on the way that we behave. They're going to respond to that. That's what people do. That's what happens in a system. They're going to look at the leader and say, Oh, What kind of mood is he or she in today? I mean, where's he going with this? [00:48:35] And the more unpredictable you are from that, the more people are not feeling safe in this. And again, that comes back to when they know that they can bring you issues and you're not going to fly off the handle when they know that you know what, Hey, you're going to sit there and listen to them. You're going to appreciate what they're saying. [00:48:51] Even if you don't like the message and thank them for the courage to share that with you, you know, good news, bad news doesn't get better with time. And so you want to know these things ahead of time, you want to find ways and then teach them how to solve problems so they can come to you with potential solutions. [00:49:07] Hey boss, this is what I'm thinking. This is what happened. These are the options that I'm thinking. Which way do you think we should go? Let's talk about that. Why do you think we should go this way? Why do you think we should go that way? Again, teach your people, treat them a certain way. I treated my kids, even my entry level kids, even my recreational teams. [00:49:25] I've won championships. Why? Because I treated them as champions before they even won a damn thing. Because I held them to that standard. Treat your team like champions and they will perform that way. Even if they're not the most talented. That's the thing you condition them to do. You create that culture, Jason. [00:49:42] Jason: You know, a lot of things you're touching on just now really speak to the point of empathy and just being empathetic and you know, caring about people and caring about their situation, caring about what they want and figuring out their motives and it seems like, you know, the highest performing teams are not the teams that have the most KPIs or the most metrics. [00:50:02] It's, there's been studies that say it's that there's the most empathy involved. So it's difficult, I think, for business owners to be empathetic though, sometimes.  [00:50:12] Kon: Well, what is empathy? Empathy? We talk about empathy as an emotional intelligence skill. We talk about empathy as our ability to be aware and understand where somebody else is coming from, where they're going, how they're approaching things, how they're processing things. [00:50:26] It's a it's a way to understand and acknowledge others' behaviors, feelings, et cetera. That's a capacity that we have as leaders, as emotionally intelligent leaders to be able to do. That's key. But to me, empathy unto itself in a business environment, especially or a high performance environment is only half of the equation. [00:50:46] Because to me, empathy needs to be paired up with tough love. I want to understand where you're coming from, but I also want to make sure that we set clear expectations through my understanding of what you can produce and what you're willing to produce. I can set clear expectations and boundaries, so we're both safe from that. [00:51:05] I look at back when I was, for example, working with people during The COVID days when we were all stuck and all of a sudden we're all doing virtual teams, or even now in a hybrid environment where we're operating that. That's one of the biggest challenges a lot of leaders have because they don't know how to manage teams when they're not in front of them. [00:51:21] If I can't see the whites of your eyes, how am I going to know you're working? I have that with a lot of my clients. They struggle with that.  [00:51:28] And to me, it's all about the leadership paradox. And one of the paradox elements that I teach is this empathy and tough love. I need to be empathetic with the fact that somebody is working in a very different situation. [00:51:42] Not everybody has a home office like I do, or you do. People sometimes have to work at their kitchen tables. They've got kids, school aged kids that they're trying to be a business person. They're trying to be a teacher at home. They're trying to be a short order cook. They're trying to take care of an aging parent in the background. [00:51:59] And guess what? They may have to pick things up at 10 o'clock at night after they put the kids to bed to try to cram the rest of the work that they didn't get finished during the day To me it's important as an empathetic leader to understand their situation and their plight, but on the other hand I need to protect them through tough love and say look, let's focus on the things that you can do the most important elements. Here are the priorities. If you get nothing else done, I want you to do one two three things this week. When you do them is up to you. I'm understanding your situation, but these are the three things that we need to agree to get done. That now allows me to pair empathy with tough love and that paradox creates a powerful synthesis that now I am leading from an effective way. [00:52:42] Jason: Yeah, I love the idea of tough love because you know tough love is two two words here, right tough and love and if we're tough, if we're just like shoving leadership at them without empathy, then it's cruel, right? They're going to perceive it as cruel. And if we showcase love and empathy, but we don't showcase any leadership, or any toughness or direction for them, then we're almost keeping them in their mediocrity. [00:53:09] Kon: Because with the tough love piece, again, you're setting those firmer boundaries, the expectations, the clear expectations, but you're doing it from a place of caring for them, caring for the team and caring for everything that you're trying to accomplish. That's the part of it. It needs to be that. [00:53:25] And sometimes as a leader, you're going to have to make those difficult decisions or have those difficult conversations with people and see what you can do. You're trying to manage people from where you think they should be. Try managing them from where they truly are. I've had very talented young people that are coming up and I see them as rock stars and the world is their oyster. [00:53:45] But guess what? Something changes in their lives. The priority, a health issue, an ailing parent, a new kid in the family, their priorities change just because I want to promote them and give them more responsibility, they may not be in a position to accept that responsibility. And it's important for us to really understand that because if I burn that person out or force them to make a choice, I put them in a big difficult situation and then I will lose that person. [00:54:11] Again, make sure that you understand how to harness that power and work with people.  [00:54:17] Jason: We need to know our people and we need to care about them. Well, Kon, this has been really enjoyable. I love your ideas. I love your frameworks that you shared with us today. [00:54:25] You had mentioned your business is Fresh Biz Solutions and you have a book, The Engagement Blueprint. Maybe in closing, you could just tell us like, what are they going to find? What was this book and how can they get in touch with you and any closing words?  [00:54:40] Kon: Thank you. I appreciate that. Well, the book is basically A distillation of 30 years of talent management and team building experience. [00:54:49] And in that book, I've spent a couple of years researching what is it that truly drives this level of engagement from people? How can we harness that? How can we build the kind of workplace that we all want to go to, that we all want to be part of? A place where we can raise the level of commitment and performance with our team members and really get the best out of them. [00:55:10] It includes some of my key frameworks, the things that we talked about. Earlier today, it includes my performance framework and the four elements of what I do for my clients. Building competence, building commitment, building teamwork and building systems and how that fits into the four drivers of engagement that we talked about. [00:55:28] So there's a path and pattern and a method to the madness. I've had the opportunity to interview some wonderful leaders, global leaders that have had broad teams, broad, different industries, different circumstances, but people that I have tremendous respect for, and they've all shared their information. [00:55:45] I've got case studies in the book from places where I've applied this, so it's not just my theory or things that I hope will work. I've showed people how this has actually worked in the real world, and they can take those in practical ways and apply them immediately with them. If people want to reach out to me, if the people are ready to work together, if I can support them in their efforts, they can reach out to me either by going to my website, fresh biz, B I Z solutions with an S at the end. com. And they can find a lot of wonderful information there, including a free engagement assessment so they can immediately see how their team is performing, where their strengths are, or they can reach out to me and connect through LinkedIn. That's where I normally play on my social media there. I have posts and newsletters there that come out weekly, and they can find me there under Coach Kon. [00:56:34] Coach Kon with a K, because it's hard to get people to trust you when you spell Kon with a C.  [00:56:40] Jason: There you go. Yeah, probably true. All right. Coach Kon. Great to have you here on the show. Thanks for hanging out with us on the DoorGrow show. Appreciate you being here.  [00:56:49] Kon: Thank you, my friend.  [00:56:50] Jason: All right. So for those of you that enjoy the show, you know, check out his website, freshbizsolutions. com. And if you are a property management business owner and entrepreneur, and you're struggling with adding doors, getting your systems in place. We would love to support you and see if we might be a fi

Many of our property management business owner clients are focused on hiring or restructuring their teams right now. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth experts Jason and Sarah Hull discuss the most important parts of the hiring process and offer a little bit of “tough love.” You'll Learn [04:39] 1. Finding the right person for the role [11:04] 2. The importance of training your new hire [24:41] 3. Implementing accountability for your team [30:20] Review: what does the initial training period look like? Tweetables “We need to be clear on what results we're expecting.” “Any ambiguity or fuzziness, then you're going to get fuzzy outcomes.” “You cannot ever hire somebody and just say, "now my problems are solved." They're not solved yet.” “If you skip onboarding or if you don't have a very solid onboarding and training process, it's going to cause just so much friction.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Sarah: You cannot ever hire somebody and just say, "now my problems are solved." They're not solved yet.  [00:00:09] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently than you are a DoorGrow property manager. DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners, and their businesses. [00:00:53] We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. We're your hosts, property management growth experts, Jason and Sarah Hull, the owners of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show.  [00:01:11] Sarah: All right. [00:01:11] Let's do it. Before we do anything, we have an announcement for those of you that have not yet heard. Our foster dog Hans has been officially adopted. So we didn't do a podcast since he was adopted. So this is our first podcast that we don't have Hans kind of hanging out in the background. And I miss his little face, but he has an amazing family. [00:01:32] Jason: I miss Hans. I don't- [00:01:35] Sarah: love him so much.  [00:01:37] Jason: I don't miss him chewing my stuff in my office, but I do miss his little face as well. All right. Yes. Yeah, so he's adopted All right So the topic today and if you want to check that out, you can go to doorgrow.Com right at the top. There's dogs click on that see all our stories. Maynard got adopted. [00:01:55] Sarah: Maynard is adopted. Yeah, he now lives in California.  [00:01:59] Jason: This dog was like on death's door multiple times. Well, many times. Now he's living it up with a wealthy dude.  [00:02:06] Sarah: Who just fell in love with him.  [00:02:07] Jason: Guy in California.  [00:02:08] Sarah: Maynard just captured his heart, loved him so much and wanted to provide him an amazing life, so. [00:02:15] Jason: He's got a new name.  [00:02:16] Sarah: He's Bodhi.  [00:02:17] Jason: Bodhi.  [00:02:18] Sarah: Bodhi. So he's now driving around in a convertible in California. That's one of the pictures they put on there. Oh!  [00:02:25] Jason: All right. So  [00:02:25] Sarah: Maynard has a great life now, too.  [00:02:27] Jason: So you can check that out at doorgrow.com/dogs. All right. So our topic today that we're going to be chatting about you said that it came up a few times in You know this week with some of our clients dealing with some new team members We've got we're doing helping a lot of people with hiring right now. [00:02:45] Sarah: Oh my goodness so many. I built so many DoorGrow Hiring accounts in the last week.  [00:02:49] Jason: Yeah, so we're setting up this hiring mechanism and machine and system so that people can have some consistently good hires. But that brings us to kind of the next challenge. So what have you been hearing?  [00:03:00] Sarah: Okay, so one client asked me, he's about to hire. [00:03:05] He's going through the hiring process. So he doesn't have anybody lined up yet, but he's It's about to start this whole process. And he had asked me, "Hey, what about expectations for when they start when they come on?" And specifically this is a BDM. The second instance of this happening this week is a client who has already hired and his BDM is now about 60 days in. [00:03:31] And he sent me a message yesterday and he said, "Hey, listen, I really need to talk with you before the end of the month. I need to make a decision on my team." So I said, okay, let's. Let's figure out what's going on? And he said "yeah, I'm kind of pissed because my BDM is like 60 days in, and last month he didn't do anything at all. And then this month he started like he hasn't closed anything yet," and by he didn't do anything at all, what he means is he didn't close anything.  [00:04:00] Jason: Okay. Not that he wasn't working. No deals yet.  [00:04:01] Sarah: Yeah. Okay. Not that he wasn't working. He was working. And this month now is his 60 day mark and he hasn't closed anything, but he's, you know, making calls and he's starting to, you know, get some things kind of ready and warmed up in the pipeline. [00:04:16] He, he said, "man, should I just let him go? Like, is he just not the right person? I feel like it's 60 days, like, I should see some results at this point."  [00:04:26] Jason: Okay.  [00:04:26] Sarah: So I'd like to, I'd really like to talk about that. And this is going to be, whatever episode this is "Sarah's Tough Love episode." So here it is. [00:04:35] Jason: Got it. Okay, I mean, let's get the basic stuff out of the way, right? First, we need to know that we have the right person. So, we need to know what those expectations are. So, that's where we define that. Usually, we call them R docs, but in this ultimate job description. So, we need to be clear on what we're looking for. [00:04:51] We need to be clear on what results we're expecting. We need to be clear on, you know, what outcomes we're hoping for and they need to be clear on this, right? Like if we're bringing somebody in, they need that clarity. So if there's anyone listening and there's any ambiguity or fuzziness, then you're going to get fuzzy outcomes. [00:05:09] And those aren't good, right? And so there needs to be at least, and you need to be on the same page. Literally, the way we do that is with a page called an RDoc. And so you make sure you're on the same page. And all those young Gen Z people, notice how I used the word literally, correctly like it's an actual page. [00:05:28] Sarah: I was just thinking that.  [00:05:29] Jason: Stop saying the word literally. It drives me fucking nuts. So, all right.  [00:05:33] Sarah: Literally.  [00:05:34] Jason: I literally, like if, yeah, nobody's confused about it being figurative, then don't, you don't need to say the word.  [00:05:41] Sarah: I literally died yesterday when I read that text.  [00:05:43] Jason: No, you would be dead. [00:05:45] You would actually be dead. All right. So, Now the next piece is we need to make sure we've got a person that fits that job description, right? They actually are the right personality. Well, let's talk about the three fits real quick. They have to match all three or they're not going to be a good BDM. [00:06:01] Sarah: Or it's never going to work out. And it doesn't matter if it's a BDM, an operator, a property manager, an assistant, a maintenance coordinator. It doesn't, name the role, doesn't matter.  [00:06:10] Jason: So, first, they have to be the right personality for the job or they'll never be great at it. They'll never be motivated to do it. [00:06:18] You bring in somebody to be a BDM, for example, and they're not the right personality to go out and want to talk to people and connect with people and network and that's not fun for them, they're always going to resist it. They're going to avoid it. They're going to do a bunch of time wasting stupid activities They're going to train everything else other than what really should be done, which is to go connect with people and have conversations. So they're going to be like "well I'm trying some marketing thing and i'm trying this thing and like and-"  [00:06:47] Sarah: "I sent 5,000 emails I don't know why none of them came back." [00:06:51] Jason: "We did direct mail to, like, 7,000 owners." [00:06:56] Sarah: I've heard that and it's because this is a true example. "I sent 5,000 emails." [00:07:00] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:01] Sarah: So essentially you did nothing. That's great. Right. Good to know.  [00:07:05] Jason: Yeah.  [00:07:05] Sarah: Thank you.  [00:07:06] Jason: Lots of emails, right? So. So,  [00:07:09] Sarah: you know how many junk emails we get in a day? What happens when you get junk email? [00:07:13] Do you open it? Do you read it? Do you respond to it? No. That's what you just did to somebody else.  [00:07:19] Jason: Yeah. It lacks depth. All right. So we can get into tactics later, but they need to match the personality for the role. Which means they would love succeeding at this. They would love doing it. They would enjoy it. [00:07:32] They get some fulfillment out of it. And so that's personality fit. They need to be the right the right culture fit, which means they need to actually believe in your business and in you and in the product. They have to believe in this. You cannot sell effectively if you lack belief. And that goes for everybody on the team. [00:07:53] Like, if your operator isn't a believer in you or the business, they're not going to want or care to make sure that it runs well for you. If your executive assistant isn't, you know, a believer in you or shares your values, they're never going to do things in a way that makes you feel safe or that you trust them. [00:08:09] Cultural fit means they do it the way that you would want it done, that they share your values. The big clue we talked about this at our last jumpstart event where we had clients and somebody had a team member. And I just asked, I said, well, do you feel better when they're around? [00:08:25] Do you feel calmer when they're around? And they were like, no, I'm like, yeah, then they got to go.  [00:08:30] Sarah: He said, oh, well, a lot of our communication we do over the phone because that's better.  [00:08:36] Jason: Because there's such a high degree of conflict.  [00:08:37] Sarah: Jason says, better than what? Awful?  [00:08:40] Jason: Yeah, and then he laughed. [00:08:41] Everybody laughed in the group and he was like, well, yeah.  [00:08:44] Sarah: Well, I can't talk to this person in person. I can't be around them. Because when we're around each other, there's too much conflict. It's just too, it gets, yeah, it gets too feisty. Well, that's not good.  [00:08:55] Jason: Yeah, that means that person's not a good fit for that person for that particular client. [00:09:00] Sarah: And let's be clear. It doesn't mean that there's anything wrong with this particular person. No, it doesn't make them a bad person It doesn't mean, you know, all the they'll never succeed No, it just means that they are better suited in a different environment That's all. It means not everybody like when you're dating, you don't want to date everybody. You want to date people that you like generally and there are certain people that you like and there are certain people that you just don't mesh well. The businesses work the same way.  [00:09:31] Jason: Yeah. They've got to match your values. Because regardless you get somebody that's amazing BDM, for example, or an amazing operator for your business, they don't share your values, you'll never trust them. Like you just can't. And then the third fit is skill fit. So they have to have the skill or the ability or the intellectual capacity to learn and develop this skill quickly. And so if they don't, then you'll invest a bunch of energy into trying to train them and they're just too stupid to get it. [00:10:01] Or they just can't figure it out or maybe you hire somebody and they've got bad habits or they can't adapt. So they need to have that skill fit. They got to be all three or they're not going to be a good fit. So let's assume if we've helped them with DoorGrow Hiring, we focus on these three fits. [00:10:18] We have a whole hiring mechanism. Make sure these generally go well.  [00:10:22] Sarah: Yeah. So I can tell you, I don't think that's any of those are the problem.  [00:10:26] Jason: This person. Yeah. So in these situations, the person is the right fit. Yeah, usually that's the problem is they're not even getting the right person. [00:10:33] Most of y'all doing hiring, you're playing Russian roulette hiring and you don't have good fits.  [00:10:38] Sarah: Or it's, oh, this person had the experience and they came from such and such a Yeah, we hear that all the time.  [00:10:43] Jason: Yeah. Well, they're so experienced, and you feel uncomfortable around them and you don't trust them. [00:10:50] Yeah. So let's assume that, you know, with our clients, we've helped them find people that match the three fits. So now we're past that hurdle, that's very typical for most people, well, now, if it's not them, then who is it?  [00:11:04] Sarah: Okay. So here's where the tough love comes is. This is always my question. [00:11:08] And I'm very, very particular about what happens when you hire someone. You cannot ever hire somebody and just say, "now my problems are solved." They're not solved yet. I know it feels like you've gotten through it and now things are better and you should just be able to rely on that person. You're not there yet. [00:11:33] You will be. But you're just not, you're getting closer. You're just not fully there yet. And this is what happens a lot of times and they go, "Oh, okay, so I know I need to train this person and then I'll probably train them for like a week or two and then they'll just be good." [00:11:48] Absolutely not. So especially with a new person and it doesn't matter. Here's the other thing that I hear all the time, especially when somebody has the experience. Oh, well, you know, they have a sales background. They know how to sell. Great. They don't know how to sell for you. They don't know how to sell what you've got. [00:12:05] They don't know how to sell your values and your mission. They don't know how to sell that yet. They don't quite know. So you can take any salesperson in the universe and plug them into your business. Do they have the skill? Yes. Do they have the experience? Of course, but they still have to be trained. So having the experience does not mean "Oh, I don't have to train them," or, "oh, I don't have to train them as much." [00:12:32] You still have to train them a lot. There is a lot of training. And I hate to break it to you, but your life when you hire gets worse. So your life is bad, you know you need to hire, then you hire somebody, your life is now worse for a short period of time. The reason being is everything that you were doing, you still have to do it, and in addition, you now have to train somebody. So nothing has changed except that you just added another responsibility for yourself for the next 30 to 90 days. And there is no way around that with hiring. So if you hire and you fail the train, it is probably not going to work out. They will not get the results. [00:13:16] They will be frustrated. You will be frustrated. And at some point, you will get back into the cycle of, "Oh, well, now I guess I have to hire again." And then you live in hell forever. And it's not a good place to be.  [00:13:31] Jason: Yeah, so unless you hire somebody that is an amazing 'who,' right? There's a book called Who Not How it's a great book. [00:13:40] Unless you hire an amazing 'who,' like you bring in somebody, they're a sales trainer and an expert closer, and they've had tons of success and they can teach other people's sales, then I think, in any role, you have to assume you need an assumption that they're going to do it wrong. You have to start with that foundational assumption that they're going to do everything wrong. [00:14:01] If I hired an operator cold, they're doing it wrong, that I need them to install my operational system. If they are coming in as a salesperson in the business, I know they've been trained poorly because most sales training out there doesn't work anymore. There's a new model and a new way of selling and all the old stuff. [00:14:20] All the salesy guys that are sales trainers and sales coaches largely out there that push. Doesn't work anymore. It's outdated. And we don't push that stuff at DoorGrow. We've had to shift how we sell and we teach clients differently, even in the last year. And so my assumption is that they're going to do it wrong, but. [00:14:40] What I do assume is if they've done it well before, they have the ability to learn it. They have the ability to be a good operator. They have the ability to be a good BDM. But there needs to, you can't assume because they have done it before, that you're just going to rely on them to do it.  [00:14:56] Sarah: It's not plug and play. [00:14:58] "I hired them now they're just going to go do it and they're going to sell a bunch of stuff for me." No.  [00:15:02] Jason: Right. You're always going to be disappointed with most everybody if you come in with this assumption and they're going to feel unsupported and untrained and frustrated.  [00:15:13] Sarah: And they will inevitably either quit or get fired.  [00:15:16] Jason: Yeah, they'll go find a better situation.  [00:15:18] Sarah: No matter what, it will not work out. So here's a good moment to talk about Vendoroo.  [00:15:25] Jason: We'll talk in just a minute. We're going to talk about the onboarding and then some of the next steps that are really important. But quick word from our sponsor. If you're tired of the constant stress and hassle of maintenance coordination, meet Vendoroo, your AI driven in house maintenance expert that handles work orders from start to finish. Triaging, troubleshooting, vendor selection, and coordination built by property managers for property managers to provide cost effective and accountable maintenance operations, where every dollar is accounted for, and every task is handled with unmatched reliability Vendoroo takes care of the details so you can focus on growth. Schedule a demo today at vendoroo.ai/doorgrow and experience maintenance done right. Okay. So check them out.  [00:16:10] Sarah: Speaking of doing things right, let's talk about what happens after you hire somebody.  [00:16:15] Jason: So the next step after you hire it, it has to be onboarding. There needs to be a good transition of bringing somebody out from the wild, this untrained wild creature, getting them to be something that is going to work inside of your business and fit you and fit what you want. [00:16:33] It's onboarding.  [00:16:34] Sarah: And if you skip onboarding or if you don't have a very solid onboarding and training process, it's going to cause just so much friction because I'm sure that you can think back to a previous job that you've had back when we all had job jobs, right? Have you ever just been hired and then kind of just, it's almost like train yourself or figure it out or, well, "I'm going to train you a little bit and then the rest is up to you. Well, what do you mean? I trained you for a whole day. Now I'm done." [00:17:06] "Oh, okay. So that's it. That's all the support I'm going to get. All right."  [00:17:10] have you ever been hired and then you don't even truly know what you're supposed to do? I don't know. I'm supposed to sell stuff.  [00:17:16] Jason: So here's the challenge. Here's the challenge with this with entrepreneurs, I've been thrown into job situations where there was terrible onboarding, terrible training, but I'm an entrepreneur personality type. [00:17:27] I then innovated, figured it out. And in some situations where at a job I then quickly was put into leadership and sort of managing others. But I had initiative. I had drive, like I had adaptability and I find entrepreneurs are incredibly adaptable and they make the mistake of assuming that everybody else is like them and they're not, they're like, "well, I would just figure it out and I would just ask enough questions. And if I didn't know something, I would just like, and so you can't assume that everybody is like you, if they were like you, they wouldn't work for you. How many of you would go work for somebody now? Like, you're unemployable. Like, let's be real. You would suck as an employee, probably, right? I'm unemployable at this point. [00:18:10] I'm not going to like sit around and let somebody just tell me what to do all the time and whatever. Right. But they're not the same as you. And if they were, then they might just, you know, start a business and leave your business. Right. So they're willing, if they're willing to work for you, you need to assume that they are not the same as you and that they need to be guided. They need support. Now that doesn't mean they can't learn or they're not adaptable. That's the skill fit Don't make the assumption that they'll just wing it and figure it all out unless they're just incredibly driven and incredibly patient And they're really a strong believer in you. [00:18:45] Some of them may do that, but you don't want to lose a good person simply because they feel like you don't care or you're not invested.  [00:18:52] Sarah: So this is There's so much time that goes into hiring and this is why I say don't waste the time that you've spent trying to find the right person and screening applications and interviewing and you put a whole bunch of time and probably effort into this and now you found the person, don't waste that opportunity. [00:19:18] So you need to onboard them properly. And what does that mean? We need to make sure that they have access to all of the systems that they're going to need. And that they know all of the systems that they're going to need. So, oh, what are the tools that I use? And then, do I know how to access it? And, do I know how to use it? [00:19:36] Right? Don't just assume that they'll figure out, Oh, well, this is how I use this phone system. Train them on it. Just show them that. So, there's got to be training for those sorts of things. If they're in sales, then, well, How do I sell? How do I reach people? What am I doing? Am I just doing the fit call, figuring that out? [00:20:00] Am I doing the full pitch? Am I closing? Am I setting them up for you and then you're going to close? What exactly am I doing? So train them on every single thing that they need to know. And I know this sounds so silly, but most people do not do this. So, what do I say? What do I do? Do I have a script? Do I just make it up? [00:20:22] Where do I find people? Am I in the office? Am I driving around? Am I, like, meeting people at events? What am I supposed to be doing all day? Because I'm brand new and I know nothing. So I'm completely reliant upon you to tell me what to do. So if they don't know, don't assume that they're just going to go and figure it out for you. [00:20:44] You have to show them and they have to shadow you. So for the first 90 days, this is all training. So when you hire any person, now some of them will pick it up a little bit quicker and some of them will take the full 90 days and either way it's all right. But just in your head, tell yourself it's going to take the full 90 days, right? [00:21:07] So in that 90 days. With any position, but especially in sales, don't expect them to come in and then just start selling. Oh, wow, they closed a bunch of deals. That was awesome. That's so cool. So there's kind of a ramp up period in every position, but certainly in sales. So shadowing is very important here. [00:21:31] They need to be all over you. All the time. So you need to meet with them every day.  [00:21:40] Jason: Or whoever is the person they're learning from. Sometimes it's not going to be you, eventually. In the beginning, it's always you, right? Which leads us to, like, availability and access is huge in the beginning. Like, if a team member doesn't have access to you, or you are unavailable because you're so busy. [00:21:58] They're going to feel stuck. They're going to feel unsupported. They're going to feel fearful in what they're doing. And so they need to have availability. This morning, I got a phone call. Like a call came in through Telegram. She called me and she's like, "Hey, I'm supposed to do a triage call right now? I have a scheduled appointment, and I'm trying to load Zoom and it's saying, it's waiting for the host. And I'm supposed to be the host." And I said, Then just call them, like pick up the phone, just call them. It's a quick call anyway, but it probably has to do with maybe you're not logged in or you click the link somewhere else and it doesn't realize you're logged in. [00:22:31] It happens to me sometimes. And she said, okay, yeah, I'll just call them. You know, if she were in that situation, this is her first triage call and she's like totally stuck and I'm like unavailable and she's freaking out, then she's going to feel, you know, people go through all sorts of emotions like anger, shame, guilt, fear, like, you know, stuff like this. And so we don't want to put our team members on this emotional rollercoaster of discomfort when everything's uncertain in the beginning. So that's important. Once we get through and the onboarding period, my general rule for onboarding is 90 days, like you said, then the first the first 30, I'm usually meeting with them maybe for an hour a day and I'm highly available.  [00:23:12] Sarah: Every day. [00:23:13] Jason: Yeah. [00:23:14] Sarah: Every day.  [00:23:15] Jason: That's usually the goal. And then after that, I might the next month, maybe it's a shorter time period every day if I'm over like consistently training them like a BDM especially. But otherwise, it might be that we start backing it off to maybe meeting weekly. And then depending on the role of whether or not I'm their supervisor directly, or if they're kind of owning a piece of the business, I then might back it off in the last month or eventually for the future to meet with them monthly to support them or whatnot. Like you kind of gradually step it down and it'll be obvious because you'll be getting on calls with them and like, Hey, what else should we talk about? What else do you need to know? What other questions you have or hey, I want to make sure you know this and you're going to start to run out of ideas. And they're going to start to not need you as much. And so then it's pretty obvious. Well, okay, then I guess we'll end this early. And that's a clue. Well, maybe we don't need to meet as often now. And they'll let you know. You know, do you think we need to keep meeting all the time like this? Like, well, it is helpful, but I don't know that we need an hour, maybe 30 minutes. Okay, cool. If we could just meet 15 minutes each day so I can get unstuck on a few things. Awesome. Right. So I meet with my assistant every day for a short amount of time. [00:24:26] But they're directly responsible to help and support me on things as an operator, like you run our weekly meeting and our daily huddles. Right? And so there's different things like there's sort of a cadence of structure, even regardless. So. I think after we get through onboarding and you've got good access, good availability, they feel supported and they're succeeding, they need to be getting results. [00:24:50] So I think the next step in my mind is there needs to be accountability. So if you're letting somebody just run and it's 60 days in and they are not succeeding or getting results, like cool, how many calls has the BDM made? "I don't know." Okay. How, like, how often have you met with them? "Well, you know, not often." If there's no part of meeting with them is to create accountability. [00:25:13] Like, Hey, what are you working on today? What do you feel like is next? What are you going to be doing? And to make sure that you're guiding them towards what they should be working on. So accountability means, you know, metrics if they're a bDM.  [00:25:26] Sarah: You need to know the metrics.  [00:25:28] Jason: How many networking events have they gone to in the last week? [00:25:31] How many phone calls and outreach have they made to potential referral partners or real estate agents? How many investors have they reached out or called? Are they on top of all of the follow up tasks and deals that are in the CRM? Do you have a CRM, right? Like there needs to be accountability. So there's a record. [00:25:50] Are they keeping notes? Are they, are the calls recorded? Can you listen to their calls to help them improve? Like if there's no transparency or accountability, there's almost no likelihood that they're going to succeed. Like it's because they're not being watched. So, basically, you're sending the signal, it doesn't matter. [00:26:08] You might get somebody that's an amazing self starter.  [00:26:11] Sarah: Go figure it out. Well, shit, I don't know. I guess I'll just make it up. But then when they make a decision and now their decision is different than your decision, now, you didn't tell them what to do. They just made something up and now you're not happy with the results. [00:26:28] Jason: Yeah, and they're lacking leadership and if they're lacking in your jobs to be the leader and they're lacking leadership, then they have no accountability and they have no, there's no transparency or visibility in what they're doing. You won't know. If what they're doing is working or not working. And so they'll just keep doing what's not working. [00:26:48] Because if they still get paid either way, that's a bad situation for most team members. Most team members will continue to get paid whether or not they're really performing at an exceptional level or a decent level. And with a BDM, their compensation should be directly connected to getting results, so they should really want it. [00:27:06] But if there's no accountability or transparency in the beginning, They're probably going to do a lot of stuff that isn't working and they're going to be frustrated and they  [00:27:15] Sarah: know why it's not working  [00:27:17] Jason: Yeah,  [00:27:18] Sarah: they'll come to you and say hey like I'm doing what you told me to do. You told me to make all these calls I mean all these calls. It's not working.  [00:27:26] Jason: And this is one of the ways in which DoorGrow can assist. [00:27:29] We can assist with this, right? Like they can show up to our Wednesday coaching call if they're a BDM focusing on growth. And the BDM can come to the call and say, Hey, I'm trying to do this and I'm getting this result. It's not the outcome I'm looking for. It's not working. Cool. Maybe you need to change this. [00:27:44] Or how are you saying it? Or what are you doing? Or could you send us a call recording? So all of these things that we teach, we know work. They can work. If it's not working, then it's obvious that it must be what they're doing. They're not doing it correct. They're doing it maybe in the wrong way or maybe they're not saying the right things or maybe their tone is off or maybe They are turning people off and they sound like a telemarketer or they're creating the sales ick or the sales resistance in people by how they're approaching people and these are easy changes These are little things that are very easy to tweak or change. [00:28:22] I mean just listening to one sales call from somebody, I can give them a lot of feedback and it's like they grow so much faster and quicker. And that's one way to add some visibility or accountability into the equation. But as a business owner, you need to know their metrics. They need to have metrics and be accountable for that, right? [00:28:40] They need to know what are the leading actions that I need to be taking that are going to get the business development results? What are the daily activities that I need to be doing in order to succeed? So that's my take  [00:28:53] Sarah: for sure. And I love listening to the call recordings because then sometimes when you're in the moment and this happens to all of us, sometimes when you're in the moment, you have a certain perception of how things went and then when you go back and you listen to it later, you'll catch something that you weren't aware of in that moment. [00:29:14] So maybe it's something that they said, maybe it's something that you said, maybe you. Didn't explain something the way that they understood it, but you'll hear things that you may have missed in the moment and Especially with salespeople, this is a training opportunity. So a lot of times people go "what am I supposed to train them on? Like they know how to use the CRM? they know how to use the phone system. They know what to do. They got to just go do it." Okay? Well Are we honing in skills? Are we improving things? Or are we just saying like, "Go do it! Go make a thousand calls this week!: Okay, well, if I make a thousand shitty calls  [00:29:53] Jason: Yeah, you're just wasting energy and you're wasting your leads or your opportunities. [00:29:58] Sarah: So there's always this fine tuning that we have to do. And very rarely are people able to do it for themselves. Sometimes they can go back and listen to a call recording and then go, Oh, you know what? I'm going to improve that. But a lot of times it's really good to have two people listening to the call recording for that reason. [00:30:20] And then the last thing that I do want to talk about is what does the 30, 60, 90 day period look like? So I always tell people in their first 30 days, this is nothing but training. This is deep training, you really do need to be meeting with them every day, not when it's convenient, not when you have time, not, "oh, well, I skipped that day because this happened." [00:30:42] Every single day, every day, they need to have the correct resources, the correct knowledge, the right support, the questions need to be answered, you need to be available to them. They need to have all of this because they're brand new. So a lot of times what happens is people hire somebody and it's like a little baby bird and then they push the baby bird out of the nest. [00:31:08] The bird can't fly yet because you didn't even teach it what its wings are, right? So we can't do that yet. So in the first 30 days, really expect nothing. Really, they just need to be training. If they close something in their first 30 days, that's awesome. Great! I mean, they should be doing the activities. [00:31:27] Jason: I expect work.  [00:31:28] Sarah: Yes,  [00:31:29] Jason: I expect to actually and work like if it's to make calls, I expect them in like a BDM should be making some outbound outreach and calls right away.  [00:31:39] Sarah: Absolutely.  [00:31:40] Jason: Otherwise, how are you going to know that  [00:31:41] Sarah: if it's going to, yeah,  [00:31:43] Jason: they shouldn't just be like, just learning. So it's like, I want to get them on the phone and get them making calls. [00:31:47] Sarah: No, but in sales, let's be really clear here. Training. This is hands on training. This is like trying to say, "Hey, I need to go learn how to drive a car. But I'm never actually going to get in the car. I'm going to meet with you on Zoom or I'm going to sit with you and you're going to tell me about how to drive a car." [00:32:03] No, honey, you gotta go get in the car. So, yes, you have to actually be doing it, doing the activities.  [00:32:09] That is training.  [00:32:10] Jason: There's no amount of manuals or videos you could read or watch that would teach you how to drive a car. You have to drive the car.  [00:32:17] Sarah: Yes. So, if they close something in their first 30 days, that's awesome, that's gravy, that's a bonus. [00:32:23] But sometimes people go, "oh man, it's been 30 days and I haven't closed anything. Like, man, they must suck." They're new. They're learning so much and when you implement a new thing, you're probably not going to be very good at it. Especially a new strategy or a new way of doing sales because the way that we teach our clients to sell is different. [00:32:43] It's different. We're not hardcore closing everybody. We're not doing that. So it's, everything is different. They don't have their bearings yet. They don't even have their footing and their foundations, right? So 30 days, if they close something, that's great. But I still, I want them to be training and I want them to be doing some sort of, you know, whatever it's going to be. [00:33:04] If you have them doing events or presentations or calls or a mixture of all of them, great.  [00:33:10] Jason: There should be progress. You'll see progress. And if that's the thing you don't want to tolerate somebody being in the business for 60 days, 90 days, and you're not seeing progress or action, and you're trying to push them. [00:33:23] If you're having to push somebody to do something. Probably they're not the right personality fit. If you feel unsafe with them doing things, and it makes you uncomfortable, how they're doing things, probably not a culture fit. They're not doing it according to your values. [00:33:36] The "how" they go about doing it is different than you. If they're just not doing the right things, then that's a training issue. Or they're just not intelligent enough to learn the skill. So that's a skill fit. Okay,  [00:33:48] Sarah: so then 60 days I do want to see some progress. They might close something. [00:33:55] They still might not it depends. I can't say yes or no Oh, they should definitely close. I can't you can't say that because everybody has their own time frame, right? And investors sometimes they work on their own time frames. You can't control that but I do want to see I want to feel like things are happening, and I want to feel like, Hey, we've got some stuff in the pipeline, we've got some stuff that I feel like might close. [00:34:20] If you say, Hey, what do you have that's about to close? Do you feel like anybody's close? And they go not really. Oh... [00:34:27] Jason: are they getting appointments? Are there relationships being built? Are there deals now kind of get in the pipeline at some of the earlier stages? Like you should start to see the sales pipeline mature and build. [00:34:37] Sarah: So then 90 days they've been doing that. Now they understand everything. They know what to do. They know how to do it. They've gotten their feet wet. They've now tested things and then also made some improvements. They're like, Oh, well, when I say it like this, it doesn't work. It doesn't resonate. [00:34:53] But if I say it like this, it's better. Oh I have to switch this and this, right? Now you're making those little tweaks, those little improvements. So 90 days, they should be able to close something at this point. And same thing with the pipeline. I need to see the pipeline moving forward. I need to see more being added in the pipeline. [00:35:11] I need to see them further along in different stages in the pipeline. Things need to start kind of really moving forward at this point. And then after the 90 days, Now, you get to push the bird out of the nest, right? Now, you're a baby bird, go push him. You should now have everything that you need to be able to soar, as long as we did our job. [00:35:34] But a lot of times, I get it, it's hard, because you're running a business, and you're an entrepreneur, and you're busy, and it's crazy. And now you want me to train somebody? Yep. Yeah. Because once they are able to do it for you, now you can relax into it. But if we skip the training, what's going to happen is you're going to go, man, they're just not getting me the results. [00:35:55] Or they might get frustrated and go, man, my boss sucks. Like they don't train me on. Anything, and it's just not, it's not a good place here. I know, I'm going to leave because I know that if I don't, then I'll eventually get fired. So regardless, they're going to leave. And then you're going to have to go, God, well now I have to go hire somebody. [00:36:11] And then you're going to hire somebody. And then you're going to be in this whole hiring cycle of hell for the rest of eternity. And that's not a fun place to be. It's not. It's really painful.  [00:36:21] Jason: Yeah, a lot of people wait until they're in pain to hire instead of hiring strategically with a plan or, you know, in advance. [00:36:29] And so once you get to the place where you need a new team member, and then you hire, and now you're going to have to, you're kind of shot in the foot, and you're going to have to like go backwards time wise, like then you're in a worse spot, like that's not the ideal place to be hiring. And then later you'll create more freedom you know, eventually, but yeah, you want to make sure that you are kind of aware of your capacity and starting to like get your hiring systems, get your new hires in place in advance before you need it. [00:37:01] And this is why it's super important to make sure you're making the right decisions in the business. So we have frameworks for how to decide what you need most in the business and frameworks for how to decide what the business needs most. So you're making healthy. financial hiring decisions because making wrong decisions that way can really hurt cash flow and can, you know, especially early in the business can really be dangerous. [00:37:22] So, well, is there anything else you'd say to maybe some of our clients or people that they've gotten a new hire. It's probably a good hire and they need to make sure they're doing their onboarding and taking care of this new hire correctly.  [00:37:36] Sarah: Yeah, get it on your calendar. Don't just say you're going to do it. [00:37:40] It has to be scheduled time where it's dedicated. And also, don't half ass it. Don't be like, oh yeah, I'm going to be on the phone with Joe while I'm like over here. They know. That's not dedicated. That does not feel good. We've all been on the receiving end of something like that. So, don't make people guess. [00:37:59] Don't make them figure it out. It's not going to work out well.  [00:38:03] Jason: Alright. That's our episode for today. So I think that this should be pretty helpful for some of our clients that are getting into new hires And hopefully it was helpful for a lot of you listening if you're struggling with hiring or building your team or systems or profit, all this relates to the people system in your business. You need people, planning, and process and that's our super system. If you're needing some help with this, reach out to DoorGrow and we can take you to a whole nother level by getting helping you get these systems installed and you'll have a business that you actually enjoy being in. So until next time to our mutual growth. [00:38:42] Bye everyone. [00:38:43] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:39:10] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

In this episode, we continue our conversation with Jason Krueger, the President and Founder of Signature Analytics, and we dive into the crucial topic of fraud in businesses. Jason shares eye-opening insights on recognizing fraud red flags, the importance of internal controls, and practical steps to safeguard your business from fraudulent activities. Whether you're a small business owner or managing a mid-sized company, this episode is packed with valuable tips to help you protect your assets and ensure financial integrity.Key Points:- [00:00] - Welcome Back Jason Krueger: Continuing the conversation with insights on business fraud.- [00:22] - Types of Fraud: Differences between small and large business fraud.- [01:24] - Essential Controls: Importance of implementing accounting controls.- [02:34] - Safeguard Strategies: Oversight and segregation of duties explained.- [03:58] - Common Fraud Tactics: Unauthorized payroll raises and dummy vendors.- [05:27] - Signature Analytics Solutions: How they help prevent business fraud.- [07:00] - Personal Audit Stories: Importance of regular financial reviews.- [08:35] - Financial Leadership: Signature Analytics' role in financial oversight.- [09:21] - Proactive Measures: Emphasizing the need for proactive fraud prevention.- [10:15] - Connect with Jason: How to reach out to Jason Krueger and Signature Analytics.Links Mentioned:Signature Analytics: https://www.signatureanalytics.comEmail Jason Krueger: jkrueger@signatureanalytics.comBeefy Marketing: https://beefymarketing.com/Wingman: https://trustyourwingman.com/Thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Business Growth Hacks podcast! Make sure to subscribe wherever you get your podcasts so you never miss an episode. For more marketing tips and tricks, follow Beefy Marketing on Facebook, Instagram, and YouTube at Beefy Marketing. See you next time!

If you are a property management entrepreneur who is always looking to grow and scale your business, you are open to new ways to automate processes in your business. In this episode of the #DoorGrowShow, property management growth expert Jason Hull sits down with Tom and Diego from Calvary to talk about new maintenance coordination and manager trainings to scale property management maintenance. You'll Learn [01:28] Property management maintenance bootcamp and trainings [06:07] How to manage a maintenance team [08:12] Trainings for a maintenance coordinator [12:04] Making sure things don't fall behind [15:51] Maintenance teams at no cost Tweetables “The more involved you can make the material with all those different elements, the better the results are going to be for everybody.” “It's about preserving the property, but it's also about tenant satisfaction, of course, owner satisfaction, and then building a strong relationship with vendors.” “What you say and how you say it matters.” “When you get overwhelmed, especially during high season, it's very easy to let things fall through the cracks.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Tom: Why is maintenance important? Everybody thinks they really know, but it's about preserving the property, but it's also about tenant satisfaction, of course, owner satisfaction, and then building a strong relationship with vendors.   [00:00:16] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow property managers to the DoorGrow show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow property manager. DoorGrow property managers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, are are on a mission a to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. [00:01:10] I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show. [00:01:17] All right. So today I'm hanging out with Tom and Diego from Cavalry. Call in the cavalry.  [00:01:25] Tom: Yes. Once again.  [00:01:26] Jason: Talking about what today?  [00:01:28] Tom: Maintenance as always, but I'm super excited, Jason, because we're finally launching our training programs. [00:01:36] It's actually our in house training program that we use for our own employees. Our own maintenance coordinators, and we're making it available to the public. So super excited about that. Yeah. And the reason why is because we gotten a lot of requests from people outside of our service areas. We're about 18 months into our business now, so we're not covering the whole of the U S yet. And therefore we found a way to still help those property management companies outside of our service areas. And that's what we're doing. Yeah.  [00:02:07] Jason: Awesome. So this training is pretty in depth, I would imagine, right? This is your best stuff. Because this is stuff you want your people to know to represent you and showcase your business.  [00:02:19] Correct.  [00:02:19] A lot of business owners might not want to do that? Like you're giving away your secret sauce.  [00:02:23] Tom: Yeah. So the reason why we're giving it away is, our main mission is to help property management companies. [00:02:30] And of course this one is also paid. Then the main reason for it being paid is because it's a fully guided course. So it's a cohort course. So it's not just like, "here are some videos go ahead." No, we're actually guiding the students through the whole process. We have two courses, one for the MCs and one for the managers. For the MCs, it's a 30 day bootcamp plus 365 guided throughout all of the seasons because-  [00:02:56] Jason: MCs meaning maintenance coordinator.  [00:02:58] Tom: Yeah, correct. Correct. Yeah, the maintenance coordinators. So that's 30 day bootcamp plus 365 guidance throughout all of the seasons. And then for the maintenance manager course, it is 60 day bootcamp and then also 365 days of guiding and implementation. [00:03:14] Jason: Got it. Okay. Very cool. We spoke earlier and you're like, "I've got a course." And I was like here's what I've learned about courses. And so what we've learned at DoorGrow it's a lot more effective to do what you're now thinking of doing, which is have a cohort, have people move through a class together, which is great. [00:03:30] We've just found we get so much like bigger results with our clients instead of just giving them videos, which we used to do. They still have access to some cool video material. But when we take people through a class with their peers, and they're working on it together, it feels like they're actually doing something with other people. [00:03:48] They tend to get a lot better results. They actually get stuff done. They have homework, they have deadlines, they have completion timelines for getting things done. And so we just found that they just get way better results because the completion rate on most courses is pretty abysmal. A lot of people like buy a course, but then they don't do it. [00:04:05] And I'm sure everybody listening, you bought a course before and just didn't do it like myself included. Yeah. And so we've learned at DoorGrow, coaching clients for like over a decade now that this is 1 of the best ways to get results is the hybridize everything. It's like we give them, a little bit of the ability to ask questions and have, that little 1 on 1 sort of accountability aspect. [00:04:30] There's the cohort where we're moving them through a program course material. Then there's the training material that's video course material. They can move through. And I've noticed also that people learn in different ways, right? Some people need to learn visually. Some people are more auditory. [00:04:43] Some people are more like kinesthetic, which means that it's more about feelings and the physical state in doing things. And so, the more involved you can make the material with all those different elements, the better the results are going to be for everybody. So I love that you've developed this program. [00:05:02] So why don't you tell us a little bit about. These two programs and how they would know which one should I have my maintenance person do? What's the difference between a maintenance coordinator and a maintenance manager?  [00:05:14] Tom: Yeah. So I would say that the maintenance coordinator course would, I would recommend those for maintenance teams that already have a maintenance manager in place. [00:05:24] Jason: How do you define that?  [00:05:26] Tom: A maintenance manager does it all and maintenance coordinator coordinates maintenance under the guide of a maintenance manager. [00:05:33] And that's why I wanted to say, I feel like if you have a one team person, they should follow the maintenance manager course. Why? Because it's so complete and you can build that person to then hire later on other people, them become under their guide.  [00:05:47] Jason: Got it. So if the maintenance person has an assistant or something like this, then they would do the maintenance manager thing. [00:05:54] And that assistant maybe could go through the maintenance coordinator course.  [00:05:57] Tom: Correct a one person team, 100 percent go with the manager course, because it's much more in depth. Hiring, vendor onboarding, it goes a lot deeper into all of that.  [00:06:06] Jason: Got it. Okay. So tell us about the maintenance manager course. [00:06:10] What are some of the things that you're going to cover so that you can turn these people into effective maintenance managers?  [00:06:17] Tom: Yeah. So it's going to be how to manage a team. So there's a lot talk about leadership, one on one meetings, evaluation of the team. What also sets it apart is the vendor onboarding aspect of it, how to find vendors, where to find vendors, what the process looks like, how to do it very time efficiently. [00:06:37] And yeah the manager's course goes a lot deeper into the training as well and how to implement our maintenance system as a manager and how to daily uptrain your team maybe not necessarily every day, but that's what we do. So that's what we recommend. [00:06:53] So it's really how to manage the team within our system. So the idea is that if you have a larger team, then you would just give the MC course to the maintenance coordinators and then the maintenance manager course to the manager and it all works in harmony. [00:07:08] Jason: Got it. Okay. Now, a lot of people are like "I don't need my maintenance person to manage a team. I just need one person. I've only got a handful of doors or maybe a hundred or maybe 200 doors. Maybe I just need the maintenance coordinator one," or what if they don't have a maintenance person yet? [00:07:27] Which one should they do as a business owner? It sounds like maybe the maintenance manager one would make sense because they need to hire somebody.  [00:07:33] Tom: Exactly. 100%. If it's 1 person, it's the maintenance manager. Why? Because we also give a vendor agreement example, an owner agreement example, a maintenance coordinator agreement example. [00:07:46] So it's very complete. And again, if you have a 1 person team you go with the manager course. [00:07:53] Got it. Okay, cool. The reason why we made the maintenance coordinator course shorter, it's just because there's stuff in there that they don't really need to know. [00:08:03] And if at some point they want to become a manager or you just feel like that person should know everything then you can just give them the manager's course.  [00:08:12] Jason: Okay. So what does the maintenance coordinator course material cover? And what's left out?  [00:08:18] Tom: Yeah. Let me grab the modules here. [00:08:20] So we have eight modules in the maintenance coordinating course. It is an introduction of course, and then understanding property management maintenance. It is about maintenance ethos. It is about why is maintenance important? Everybody thinks they really know, but it really highlights every single detail. [00:08:39] It's about preserving the property, but it's also about tenant satisfaction, of course, owner satisfaction, and then building a strong relationship with vendors. Then we have a module about vendor management, so how to communicate with vendors, how to explain to them what the NTE means and how to implement it or how to use it. [00:09:03] We have how to assign work orders to vendors. We have a day in the life of an MC. That's another module that is one of the most important ones. It is rather short, but it is super important because it talks a lot about time management, how to schedule your day and how to be very efficient with your day, because this is one of the biggest problems we see when we hire new MCs or maintenance coordinators is that they start by reading their emails, for example. [00:09:32] Classic mistake. No, you should never start with reading your emails. You should start with the open emergencies, then the new work orders, and then you go through all of those, and then you can go to your emails, right? So it's it's one of these small details that make a world of difference. [00:09:49] Okay. We also talk about the snowball effect. That is, for example, when you're a little bit slow and you get complaints, now those emails and those phone calls come in, right? So that means that now you have to spend a lot of time because when emails or complaints come in, you have to always go and dig a little bit, search a little bit further. [00:10:10] And that takes a lot of time. All that time that you're then spending on that. Now you're delaying all of the other work. So that's what we call the snowball effect. Another module, for example is communication. What you say and how you say it matters. We have leveraging chat GPT to write perfect emails to give great responses, troubleshooting, big one for chat GPT. [00:10:32] And then we discuss occupied service requests. And then the most important module is all of the flow charts. So the service request flow chart. So we have a full flow chart for every single type of work order. So emergency, normal, recurring vendor, owner, home warranty, or warranty job.  [00:10:49] Jason: Got it. Okay. So Diego, how involved were you with all this stuff? [00:10:54] Diego: Pretty involved when it came to creating the systems. Yeah, I'm sorry that I'm not talking so much today. I'm feeling a bit under the weather and and that's why I asked.  [00:11:04] Jason: I just figured you're probably the brainchild behind most of the processes and systems. Yeah, we better make sure that you get some credit here. [00:11:13] Diego: So, yeah, thank you. Yeah. No I'm sorry you guys. I do feel a bit under the weather, but I didn't want to miss this podcast. One of the things that I wanted to add with the maintenance scores and the manager scores. Is what we've seen is with new property management companies that we're working with a lot of times just looking at the KPIs, and looking at how many work orders you have open and how many you have closed and so on, which the course talks about, what happens a lot of times is that no one's really following those numbers. And as a manager, one of the reasons why we recommend the manager course, especially if you're looking to become a manager and how to manage your team members. [00:11:58] Is taking a look at those numbers and making sure that things don't fall through the cracks. You would be surprised by how easy it is. I've seen it countless times with multiple companies where work orders just get left behind. They were opened. Somebody sent a couple of messages, trying to gather more information, but no one actually followed through with those particular work orders with these type of courses and having those flows the SOPs, it allows you to truly follow up on all of your open work orders, making sure that they're closed out correctly and that nothing else is pending. When a maintenance coordinator, or even a property manager, when you get overwhelmed, especially during high season, it's very easy to let things fall through the cracks. [00:12:46] So the course does go through that in detail. Tom touched a very important subject about every different flow. Sometimes we tend to want to handle every work order the same way. When they're very different. So, for example, you cannot handle an emergency the same way that you would handle a recurring type of service request. [00:13:08] And so it does go into detail of yeah, pretty much every flow, how it's broken down and why it's so important to take specific actions depending on the type of service request that it may be.  [00:13:20] Jason: Got it. So you guys probably have certain systems that you use internally with your team. So, property managers, they all have different tools, different software different property management, back office accounting. [00:13:33] So is this system specific or are they able to use whatever system they have and apply these principles? How does this work? Is that an issue?  [00:13:43] Tom: Yeah, so there's a difference between systems, processes and SOPs, right? So the system is a culmination of all the processes with human intervention and technology, processes is what needs to happen. The SOP is how it needs to happen. It's by the company. So we recommend that every company writes their own SOPs. Now, of course, our courses do guide you on that, but everybody works differently, have different software, all of that. What we will be expanding on is tutorials for the different PropTech software. So Buildium, Meld yeah, whatever. And we also have a community available along with the course. So there's a chat where we discuss the course, but also a price estimating chat, troubleshooting chat, and, I'm sure we'll come up with other chats that we can leverage the community for. [00:14:30] Jason: Very cool. So it sounds great. I'll be interested to learn more about it. Maybe see it myself. I think this would be great. I think there's definitely clients that we could send your way that could use some support on the maintenance stuff. So how do people get started with this and what would be the next steps for those listening? [00:14:48] They're like, "Hey, I think I might be interested in this. How do I get more info?" [00:14:52] Tom: Yes. So you can go to cavalry.works. That's our main website, or you can go to courses.cavalry.Works. That's the landing page for both courses. And we have a special promo for the DoorGrow community. We're actually giving a 50 percent discount for all DoorGrow members. [00:15:10] It's a way to thank you for inviting us into your community.  [00:15:14] Jason: Okay. Very cool. So DoorGrow people like here you go. So, all right. Very awesome. We appreciate that. That's really cool. The discount code is DoorGrow. It's a difficult one to remember, but I know everyone will be able to do it. [00:15:26] All right. The discount code is DoorGrow. All right. DoorGrow is the word. All right. Very cool. So, Diego, Tom, I appreciate you coming on the DoorGrow show. Thank you for sharing discount with DoorGrow people. And I love seeing what you guys are doing to recap for those that didn't see the previous episode that I had them on, they do free maintenance coordination. [00:15:47] Do you want to just plug what you do real quick for those that maybe haven't heard the previous episode?  [00:15:51] Tom: Yeah. So honestly, I should have started with this because the reason why we're even qualified to teaching this is because we do this for a living. So we offer free maintenance teams to any property management company at no cost to you, the way that works is we get paid through a vendor volume discounts on the backend. But if you want more information about that, you can go to cavalry.works.  [00:16:14] Jason: Sounds really awesome. So, all right. Thank you, Diego. Thank you, Tom. Diego. Hope you feel better. I'll let both of you go. [00:16:20] Appreciate you coming on the DoorGrow show. Thank you so much.  [00:16:23] Diego: Thank you, Jason. Thank you so much.  [00:16:25] Jason: All right. Bye bye. Bye bye. Okay. So if you are a property management entrepreneur, you are wanting to get maintenance, check them out. You're dealing with maintenance. It's one of the most difficult and earliest problems that you need to deal with as a property manager. [00:16:39] You've got to figure out maintenance, got to figure out leasing. These are some of the basics. If you're struggling though, to add doors, you're like, "I just, I need more doors. I need to get more business. I need more leads. Or I need better processes throughout my business. I need to get like my systems going. I need a better team." Then these are the things that DoorGrow can help you with. So if you're struggling and you're not scaling your business, you're not adding minimum, at least a hundred doors annually, maybe two, maybe even 300. We have clients doing that and we want to help you do that. If you are not getting at least 50 percent profit margin in your business, we can help you get there and help you like implement some of the biggest profit levers that you'll ever implement in your business. So if you are struggling and you've got a handful of doors or you've got hundreds of doors, but you're not making enough money because your profit margin is low. Why are you even doing this crazy business? So let's get you some money. [00:17:35] Let's get you paid. Let's make sure that this is worth it for you. We've got clients that are able to close more deals more easily at a higher price point because we're optimizing all the different leaks that exist in their sales pipeline. So reach out to us at DoorGrow. We can get you to the next level and we can do it fairly quickly. [00:17:52] So check us out at doorgrow.Com. Hopefully we're working together soon. Bye everyone. [00:17:57] you just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:18:24] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

Patrick responds to an email from Lucy who misheard or misunderstood a conversation Patrick had with Alex in the first hour Cyrus asks Patrick if it's sinful not to feel remorse when we see videos of the terrorists being killed Diana - As Catholics we shouldn't look at Hamas with spite but with love and sorrow for their soul. Mike - When Saint Faustina took a trip to hell, is it true that many people were there because people didn't pray for them? Jason - How do we square God being jealous in the Old Testament with His nature? Natalie - Jericho was taken over by the Israelites. How does that relate to what is going on right now? Lydia - I am a Palestinian Catholic. Did you ever acknowledge the suffering they underwent by Israel? It is horrible on both sides.

Working with amazing, hard-working property management entrepreneurs is what makes being a coach worth it. Join property management growth expert Jason Hull in today's episode as he interviews DoorGrow client Jeff Garner. Jeff went from 150 to 420 doors in 4 months! Learn how he did it. You'll Learn [02:35] Why would anyone get into property management? [12:40] Fixing the foundation of a property management business [15:14] Importance of culture in a business [25:05] Why you need a coach [27:34] Navigating operational issues  Tweetables “No matter what market we're in, it's good. If we're going to the moon, management's great. If we're crashing, it's even better because people can't sell their properties and they go, ‘Oh shoot, we'll turn them into rentals.'” "Go where they won't go and do what they won't do. That's where the money's at," “It all starts with your mindset.” “Weekly commitments, and you'll start to see the momentum build big time when the team are all visible and can be seen and there's accountability and they get recognized because you have that system installed, performance sometimes goes up.” Resources DoorGrow and Scale Mastermind DoorGrow Academy DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive TalkRoute Referral Link Transcript [00:00:00] Jeff: I have 420 doors and I have more peace of mind, more direction and I know where I'm going to be and where I'm going and how to get there.  [00:00:12] Jason: Welcome DoorGrow Hackers to the DoorGrowShow. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing in business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow Hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it. You think they're crazy for not  [00:00:38] because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management business owners and their businesses. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the bss, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert Jason Hull the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now let's get into the show.  [00:01:08] And today's guest is Jeff Garner. Jeff, welcome.  [00:01:14] Jeff: Thanks man. Glad to be here.  [00:01:17] Jason: So Jeff, what's the name of your property management business?  [00:01:19] Jeff: Homes Stretch Property Management  [00:01:21] Jason: Homes Stretch. All right, cool. And why'd you pick that name?  [00:01:26] Jeff: I feel like real estate investing it's a long-term play. It builds wealth over the long haul. And for our home stretch of our life, whether you decide your home stretch starts at 40 because you retire early, or whether it's 60 or 70, if you are buying real estate, really it, you know, It's about letting the tenants pay down, you know, principal balance, pay down, depreciation, tax, write-offs, appreciation. Sure cash flow's nice every month, but you can make millions over, you know, 20 year period, 25 year period. And so I see the real value in real estate is being that, so we want to get our owners to the home stretch and, you know, that's kind of how we look at it. So we want to improve and maintain your property so that someday you can either sell or refi and it's in great shape and it's an easy process. Or you just want to keep it in cashflow forever. So our job's to give you freedom and peace of mind knowing that your properties are being taken care of better than you can or anyone else so.  [00:02:29] Jason: Nice. Love the brand. So Jeff. Why don't you give people a little bit of background on you. How did you start getting into real estate and what made you decide to do the crazy thing of starting a property management company? How did this all happen?  [00:02:43] Jeff: Yeah, it was the crazy thing because-- so I'll tell you a little bit about me. Real estate's the only business I've ever been in. I got my real estate license when I was 22. I was going to be a real estate agent. Found a niche working with investors because when you're 22, you know, growing up doesn't come overnight. And so when you're got all your, "oh shoot, I'm showing property today," and you have to crunch the beer cans and put them under your seat. because you just turned 21 a year before, you know, it can be a little awkward putting the 40 year old mom and dad and their kids in the car to go show them property. [00:03:18] Right. Which I did okay at. I did fine. But I found a niche in working with investors because you could sell them one house and most of the time they don't even want to get in your car. Half the time, once you get know what you're doing, you just give them a lockbox code and tell them to call you back and tell you what you think, and they give you a number and you write it and put it in. You could sell them 10 or 20 houses. So I developed a niche at that. I got really good at finding deals and I would send them to my guys. Shortly after that, I decided that I was on the wrong side of the table, you know, three or four years of that. I go to closing, I collect my $2,500 commission check, and he gets a check for $20,000 because he flipped it, right? And I just thought, wait a minute, I'm finding the deal. I'm calling him up, I'm telling him what number to put it in at and he's making all this money. What am I doing wrong? So I got into that side of the business, you know. So, 08 hit crashed. All of us really put me in a position to where I to make a decision on what I wanted to do because all my investors were gone. Right? [00:04:17] They were trying to stay alive. Yeah. You know, in 08 for the people that didn't go through it, was like If you worked in Walmart and all of a sudden the next morning you woke up and no one will shop at Walmart again. [00:04:31] Jason: Right?  [00:04:31] Jeff: Yeah. Never walks through the door.  [00:04:34] Jason: Yeah. So must have been scary.  [00:04:37] Jeff: Yeah. And so, I thought, "well, this investment thing's really what I want to do. So I'm going all in. It's time to restart. So that's what I'm going to go all in at." So I really looked at what happened and I realized that history, you know, tells the story and that everyone was riding this wave and had no idea it was a wave because no one does the research to, you know, see what the cycles are. I didn't know there was a cycle. I was young. Yeah. And so the common sense thought came, well, we were at a high. If I was a real investor and I was really good at what I did, I would've been taking vacations, waiting for this crash to happen, and then I'd go out and buy everything I could find and hold it. Yeah, so I did that. I bought 110 rentals over a three year period, all at, you know, probably 20% of what the market is today. And outsourced the management a couple times. Horrific. Cost me more money than you know, one, when I was at 110 properties, I had to take them back overnight because I realized that I had 16 vacants and they didn't even know about half of them. [00:05:42] Really? Yeah. It was horrible. They just they got overwhelmed and so I built a management company overnight to manage my own properties and had zero desire. It was the last thing on the absolute planet I wanted to deal with was tenants and toilets. I did not get into rentals to deal with tenants or maintenance. It didn't, yeah. So I put together a makeshift management company and decided I'd never take on another property of anyone else's. I'd only do my own, because I was going to do this, it was going to be for myself. There certainly wasn't going to make a hundred dollars a month on a property and do all this for somebody else. Right. That's, that was my thought on being real. And a few years went by '16, '17, realized that I'd gotten tons of equity and I had properties sitting there with 50, 60,000 in equity and I'm making 200 or 300 a month. And I thought, this math doesn't make sense anymore, right? So I sold off over a two or three year period, about 50 of them. But everyone apparently, everyone knew management is a tough gig and there's not a lot of good management companies out there. Why? Right? There was no DoorGrow then that I'm aware of at least. Right? So everyone in the management business just thought, "this looks like we can make some money, let's do this." [00:06:57] But they had no idea. The machine, it has to be to run well. Yeah. And so they said, "well, I'll buy that property. I'll even give you retail for it, but you have to keep the management." So to this day, I still manage all 110 of those properties, even though I only own 60 of them. Right. So to get the money I wanted, I had to keep the management. And then I just kind of started looking at it is in the last couple years when I realized that we could potentially be getting to another place. If you look at the charts and you look at history that we're you know, we're at a high now, will it last four years longer? Probably. So I had to kind of reevaluate what I wanted to do and I looked at all my businesses, flip business, wholesale, you know, my rental portfolios and my management company, I went, wait a minute, what am I doing? I'm focusing all this energy and chasing down deals and having all these, you know, taking all the risk on everything I buy and just grinding away constantly. For over 20 years now. And I got this management company, although it's not sexy, everyone tells me it's the worst thing in the world to do. Yeah. You know, I realize it was the one thing that was repeatable, scalable, and I could predict. And no matter what market we're in, it's good. If we're going to the moon, management's great. If we're crashing, it's even better because people can't sell their properties and they go, oh shoot, we'll turn them into rentals. I thought, "wait, what am I doing? I'm looking at this all wrong." I just started to look at it and so I started working on getting really good at it and filling all the holes on my own, right, with my own. And it's, you know, and I realized that with the right team in place and the right mindset, you know, which is we want to help landlords, right? I want to take 20 something years of resources and try to convert over this management company and give them to everyone else-- that it could be a great business. And then I realized, like I preach, because I did some coaching in the real estate space throughout the years "go where they won't go and do what they won't do. That's where the money's at," right? So if everyone's going after retail flips and a really nice b and b areas, then go look in the C areas because they're being neglected. If everyone's after all the C properties because the cash flows, so well then go up to your A or B areas and start doing flips because those are being neglected. Nice. Certain town everyone's afraid of? Good. Let them be all fighting in one place and you go there. And so I realized that was what was going on in the real estate market for the management business. So I decided that's what I wanted to focus my energies on. So I literally burned all the other boats, man. No marketing, no wholesaling, no flipping.  [00:09:40] Jason: Wow. You went all in on property management?  [00:09:42] Jeff: All in on property management, period. I got online, I did what I did 15 years before, after 08 happened, and I thought, "I'm going to redo myself. How do I do this?" And so I just got online and I started digging around and trying to teach myself things and I got coaches back then, and even though I knew 90% of what they were trying to teach me, because I got coaches in the flipping side, right? I knew you know, 80, 90% of what they were teaching me was that 10 or 20% where I knew would bring me all my money, right? So I did the same thing here and that's how I came to DoorGrow is I found you guys really were the only real system oriented, you know, nuts and bolts teach the how and not just the why. You know, a lot of people want to tell you why you do. Oh, well, you know why? They want to give you the why on, you know, but they don't want to give you the nuts and bolts of the how and tell you connect A to B to C to D and you'll get your results, right? And so, I found you guys, and I knew that's all I was missing to having success because the rest of the management companies all had bad raps. You couldn't talk to a landlord that really loved their management company. Yeah. So I knew I could fix, put those pieces together and really treat it like a business based off of giving people their freedom and peace of mind, knowing that their properties are being taken care of better than theirs. [00:11:10] If you can do that, anyone listening to this, if you can wrap your mind around being of service. No one else is doing that in the management business. Right? Yeah. You will dominate, it's like I used to say when I had lots of rehab crews going, if someone shows up and does what they say and has half of the talent that I need them to have, they could be rich. That's all they have to do. Just not be the best, but do what you say and show up so it's predictable and we can communicate well and get stuff done. So if you did that, and you can do that with a mindset of, "I want to be of service to the industry." Be the best. You'll dominate, end the story, but you have to wrap that around your mind, you know, and it'll come out in your calls. It'll come out in your conversations at the grocery store. It'll come out everywhere.  [00:12:00] Hell, I pulled 16 doors out of my gym in the first 30 days after joining DoorGrow because I just got the structure when we went through mindset and and some sales stuff of. Really taking what was in my mind and putting it in paper and going through the process of splitting the page into four spots and right. You know, going through everything. I got to dial it in and then boom, that was it. There's nothing else to talk about, but what I came up with there, you know, home stretch was the name of the business because it fits what I'm trying to do. I know what our mindset is, the culture for my company and you know, we started just plugging in systems and processes.  [00:12:40] Jason: So let's talk a little bit about it. because you said nuts and bolts, but to most property managers, they're like, "nuts and bolts means how do you like do maintenance and how do you plunger a toilet?" you know, like it's like the practical stuff where you know how to manage properties. Yeah. You know how to deal with tenants, you know how to like do all that. What challenge were you dealing with that brought you to DoorGrow and how did that help?  [00:13:04] Jeff: It's really hard to explain that. What I really had was is I had a business and it functioned and I did okay, but I did not feel at 150 properties, I did not feel I could bring on 10 more doors. I felt like it would all crumble and break because I had no idea what I was doing really. Right. I had nothing to model. I had just said I got maintenance, my maintenance was horrible. I had all these guys that that was one of the hardest parts to find. But I had all these just subcontractors and every once in a while we'd find someone to come on full time, but you'd have to trust them to be out there all day doing what they said they were doing. And I didn't know how to run that. I didn't know how to manage that. I didn't know how to systematize that where I knew what was going on at all times. And I didn't feel comfortable going any bigger because, I felt like I could see why other management companies had problems, and I don't think they want to suck, right? No, I don't think so. But they just don't want to say no to the money.  [00:14:06] "Hey, I got 20 doors." oh, we're going to do a great job for you. Let's bring it on. And they're already struggling with what they have. Yeah, right. Just think it's magically you're going to work, or, you know what? It'll give me more money in that way. More money will mean I can do more things. And no it doesn't. It creates more problems that cost more money. So I needed the systems, I needed the processes. Those are the nuts and bolts I'm talking about. Got it. Who to hire to do what and to, because that's it.  [00:14:34] Jason: I mean, so what's changed then? Like you had 150 doors, you came to DoorGrow and we started helping you change a lot of stuff, right? Yeah, absolutely. So, what things have you changed since joining DoorGrow? Yeah. What are some of the first things we start working on with you?  [00:14:51] Jeff: Okay, well, really it was just getting my mindset right was the biggest one because once my mindset was correct and I knew and I had our, what we were trying to do, where we could be of service, that opened my mind up to, " how do we do that then?" Right. So that's sort of answering questions for me, you know.  [00:15:14] Jason: So with mindset, what you're saying is I believe you're talking about all the culture stuff that we took you through stuff. Just the culture stuff and just kind of, I mean, that's the core foundation of the business. Like if we want to make this business built around you, we've got to figure that piece out, right? So we started with that and that probably had a significant ripple through everything.  [00:15:33] Jeff: Imagine like this, you have children, you all of a sudden you, "I'm going to be the best dad ever and I'm going to have kids." Next thing you know, you got two or three of them, they're under five. You have no, literally imagine your parents weren't good. I don't know. They didn't model worth a crap. Okay. Like, how do I do this? Like, I can feed them, I can put them to bed and I can keep them from killing themselves, but do I really know how to raise them to have commitment, how to be honest, how can I make a five year old a strong member of society at 28 years old, right? But if you have a culture and a mindset, you know, "I want my children to be like this. I want them to have this belief system," and how do we give them that belief system? Okay, "well, let me look into that. Okay. Well, if we go to this school, it'll give them these values and then I can back them up at home. And then with bedtime and, oh, I did a little research here. If I put them to bed at this time, get them up at this time. Oh wait, the sugars and dyes are bad. It makes them spastic and oh, well I'll take that out." And you start learning, right? But it all starts with your mindset. Right. And so my mindset changed and it started making me go down the rabbit holes that are all in DoorGrow of, "Okay. Leasing-- my leasing person that we're just winging it and working out of this software that we really were just doing all workarounds and spreadsheets because we really didn't know how to use it. Watch this. Watch these videos on leasing, watch these videos on placing tenants." And then I would watch them and then we would meet and put together a process and a system on how it's going to go instead of just winging every call we got. [00:17:17] So I started building it out position by position. I went and I found a new property manager that had the capacity to be a really good property manager and grow from some of the-- I'm still new inDoorGrow. I'm only six months in. Right? And honestly over the last month I've had a two months, I've had a really hard time getting into DoorGrow because I. [00:17:42] I'm up 420 in doors. Right.  [00:17:45] Jason: So, yeah. So, and let's get to that. That's interesting. But so the children, in your analogy here, this is your team you're talking about, and this is my team. Yeah. And you were in it for what, maybe a couple months and then you started replacing the entire team? [00:18:00] Jeff: The entire team is gone except for two people. And one of the two was almost gone. Because of just be all of a sudden having this parent mindset, I kind of coached him, or you know, raised him in a way in this little short period of time to where he's changed. Nice. And he is just, and the reality of it is, what I found out is he was so unhappy because of how screwed up systems were that everything rolled down to him that once I realized that I got to take things away, put them create and find out what was broken on his role. And he was a main construction manager that we created a different systems and now he's probably one of my strongest pieces. So everyone knew the whole team is new.  [00:18:50] Jason: So new team, you installed a good culture, you're then able to work with us on the hiring piece and getting good team members in place. Absolutely. You've leveled up some team members because you have culture and you know, like what you deserve and want as a business owner and what have the type of team and we want to build around you. Absolutely. Most business owners build teams around the business, and that's probably what you did before. [00:19:15] Jeff: Absolutely a pure necessity. And I, I didn't but hire people that fit the culture or what I was looking for. I just hired a warm body that seemed like they would work, and I thought, we'll just teach them what we need them to know. Yeah. And their mindset or what they did in their off time or their goals didn't mean they were their business. [00:19:36] Jason: Right. Yeah it's amazing. Some simple frameworks like just understanding the three fits to hiring. Yeah. Like culture fit, skill fit, personality fit can shift hiring significantly. So then you started working pretty quickly with one of our coaches on acquisitions. You went out and found a deal. And in four months you were at 420 units.  [00:19:59] Jeff: Yeah. Yep. 420. And I've got probably we're I'm just, we might be at four 40 or four 50 because we have 20 or 30 vacants that Okay. That are under, that are kind of on make ready that we took over that we haven't been able to fill yet because we have this construction backlog, not on our end, but on his backend. The guy that I bought the management from, which was part of the deal, and one of the reasons he sold was because he had done exactly what everyone else did. He got too big and wasn't saying no, and got backlogged and yeah, he was starting to provide really horrible service, so I went in, bought it from him at a really good price for me, but I think it was still a good price for him because if you're at a point to where you're going to, it's stressing you out, you can't get it all done. [00:20:46] It's affecting anything, all your other revenue streams and people are getting ready to start leaving you. Someone walks in "wait, you can take this off my hands and give me money? Okay. Where do I sign?" You know?  [00:20:59] Jason: So what are the things did you do with our team? Have we done a website for you?  [00:21:03] Jeff: You did a website. [00:21:05] Jason: What about your branding? Did you change your brand at all?  [00:21:08] Jeff: Yeah. Hell, hell yeah. I was starting point property management. I changed my brand. We rebranded a week before this acquisition, which I was like, I'm going to put this rebranding thing off because that's another, and then we sat down and I was talking to the team and I don't think they loved it, but they agreed that doing it before we transition all these new owners and tenants over was going to be the way to go because then we would have to change it all up in a couple months anyway when we rebranded and had them in a new website and portal and such so. [00:21:38] Jason: How about pricing? Did you change your pricing?  [00:21:41] Jeff: I'm on the hybrid pricing. Okay. The three plans. The three plans now, which is exactly from you guys. Which was another thing that really helped me because with changing the pricing and doing the hybrid plan and going through that training, and it was, once again, it was all the why's we're doing it. I got to design the plans that fit our culture and provide the service we wanted to provide. It gave me more confidence, honestly, in what we were doing, even though I was going to be charging more now. So yeah, we're on the three tier pricing, hybrid pricing.  [00:22:19] Jason: So you've changed your team, you changed your branding, you changed your website, you changed your pricing model. You've probably made some adjustments to your pitch. Do you do the Golden Bridge stuff?  [00:22:31] Jeff: I didn't have a pitch before. You didn't have a pitch? I didn't have a pitch. I'd just say, "Hey, we do management. Can we manage your properties?" And I just like, that's what I'm saying, when I didn't know, like I couldn't wrap my mind around, because I'd been flipping houses and wholesaling. I had that down to a science. I am a fricking ninja in that. Yeah. But the management side, it was just, "Hey, we manage properties." Yeah. This is what we charge if you want to come over. Cool. If not, I got to go. I got other calls with me, you know, and to have a pitch. So it was literally everything and the pitch made it. That's what I'm saying. I pulled 16 doors out of the gym. Yeah. Just "what are you doing now? Oh, I'm doing management and it's--" 'boop,' just going into my pitch casually, just real casual because we're at the gym. "Do you know anybody that manages any properties? Yeah, I do. I got this buddy. Cool. Could I talk to him? That was it.  [00:23:23] Jason: So I love clients like you, Jeff. because you implement, like you went through the rapid revamp and you did it rapid, like you got that stuff done. Yeah. Pretty quick. And then you start working on acquisition because you saw that opportunity with our acquisitions coach and you're like, "I'm going to do that." and you're just doing stuff and I think that's a testament to you. You know, this is part, I think when we work out more often at the gym, and I think our brains work better. I think that's science, like that's been proven. Like there's something released in our muscles. And you're a big dude. I got to get to your point. I'm trying to work out to catch up to you.  [00:23:59] Jeff: I'm going to be pitching you on coaching you in that area. [00:24:02] Jason: But I think I appreciate that you've been implementing this stuff rapidly and I asked you at DoorGrow Live, I was like, "where do you see yourself, you know, do you think you could get to a thousand doors?" And you were like, "yeah, probably a year and a half." Like it's nothing. Like it's nothing. And you're like, "well, maybe two years." And I was like, "do you know how ridiculous that sounds to most people?" Yeah. So, but I believe it. I believe it for you. I believe it's possible for you. And I believe any of our clients could do it if they just. Take action and implement. And in order to do that, they've got to trust us. And I appreciate you putting your faith in us and trusting us and just putting your head down and doing the work.  [00:24:41] So what would you say to other property managers that are maybe like the company that you bought or maybe like the way you were before if they've just been watching DoorGrow on the sidelines and they think they know what we're about and they think we're just marketers or something that like have a decent sales pitch, but they don't know if they can trust us? You're behind the paywall. What would you say to them?  [00:25:04] Jeff: Well, I mean, besides being behind the paywall and doing it and having experience with it, I know coaching and I know that space, and so I recognized DoorGrow immediately from watching your marketing and just digging in a little that you guys taught the business. It wasn't a marketing ploy to get people to sign up to you. Actually, it wasn't like I was just going to get a bunch of motivation, "go out there and do it!" right, right. Because I motivated it was, like I said, it was the whys and the hows and and the all the processes and systems. And so man, it's all there for you to just do it. You would just do it. You would literally just go, "okay, I'll start at one and work to 10." I had a management company already. If I had to redo it all when I got real life processes and systems, and then I saw that there was people in it that had a hundred doors, 500 doors, a thousand doors, and I'm like, "that's what I need." I need to be surrounded by people that are at a higher level of success and have been where I am and now are where I want to go. And so if you are watching and you have management already and you are struggling, and it sucks. Whether it's for you or your customers, or both?  I have 420 doors and I have more peace of mind, more direction and I know where I'm going to be and where I'm going and how to get there. And more time to myself if I wanted to take it. I don't take it because I still have big goals and so I'm working a lot. But then I did with 150 doors. That's awesome. I had more certainty with 3x almost than I did where I started. I got the team in place. I watched them problem solve all day long on the chat and working systems and the processes and everything happens the same over and over again.  [00:27:01] So it's really a business in a box, but you have to do it. You can't question yourself. You can't make excuses. You just have to do it. It'll be really easy if you just one foot in front of the other and take the steps. It's all there. And I had to stop because I can't wrap my mind around everything until I get to another place. Right. Yeah. Like I can only do so much and it's growing and working and so like, I've got to pause and then I'm going to dive back in and I don't know I'm still in DoorGrow obviously regularly.  [00:27:34] Jason: Well, let's do some co coaching live on air. Let's figure out what's your next step? Ready? Okay. Yeah. You open? Okay, cool. So you're at 420 units right now. Yeah. Yeah. You've finally got a good team, you've got good culture. Yeah. So the next level to get to, you know, to break past that next kind of major barrier, which maybe is 600 doors, you have to have a great team, but you got to get three major systems installed. Those three major systems are going to be, you have to really get a good process system installed. Not just process documentation, but a system to where they're running the processes each time. So we've got DoorGrow flow. You can use that, lead simple, process street, something, but you need a good process system. That's one piece. The other piece you need is you need a really good people system. So you've started to create the culture, you've started to install that system. Then we want to make sure-- and did you use DoorGrow hiring and do grow ATS and work with Sarah on some of that stuff?  [00:28:32] Jeff: I watched the coaching and implemented some of the things I learned just like I did with Clint. So yeah.  [00:28:38] Jason: So we want to make sure we have a solid system so that as you scale, you can get the right people and get those people quickly. So it sounds like you've done some work on that. And then we want to make sure you have a really good planning system. So once you have a team of people you trust to execute, your executive team, then we want to install a planning system. Now these three systems should not be run by you because as a visionary and an entrepreneur, it's not fun for you to do this. So the key person, the most important hire you will have on the team will be an operator. Somebody that runs the operations. Do you feel like you have that key person right now? [00:29:15] Jeff: I do, but she is one of the people I brought on the most valuable hire I've made after I came to DoorGrow. And it was to have that operator, but she's a CFO. Okay. And she's grown another insurance company to probably where we're at now from scratch, which, you know, I think I'm blowing her mind a little on where we want to go, how fast we're going. But yeah, my goal is to make her the operator. She's the CFO. And so you know management's an accounting business, really at the end of the day, and so we are doing so many changes to our software and our accounting to make sure that all those processes and automations are in place that she is buried every day, but she helps with the team. She helped on the hiring. And she's going to be the operator to try to shorten that. We're working her into that role because as she figures pieces out, we hand them off. So it frees her time up and she's not doing the 15- $20 an hour work because they're paying her more than that. Handing it off and it's freeing up her time and she's. Then we're putting in place some of that more operation stuff, so in process.  [00:30:23] Jason: Nice. Yeah. Cool. Awesome. So when she's ready, one of the things we'll want to do is start to get her to show up on the Friday coaching call, which is operations, and to do that super system breakout and work with her and you to get DoorGrow OS installed. Once you get DoorGrow OS installed, the planning system is that next level system. This is going to allow you to have your team start to function like a visionary, like the entrepreneur, they're going to start to innovate and move goals forward without you having to, you know, push them. And she will run that system. She'll run the meetings, and then you'll be able to set goals and break them down from quarterly to monthly to weekly commitments, and you'll start to see the momentum build big time when the team are all visible and can be seen and there's accountability and they get recognized because you have that system installed, performance sometimes goes up. When I first install a system like that, we grew 300% in a year. And so that is kind of the next level I think for you guys is when she's ready for that, we start to get DoorGrow OS installed and get that planning system and cadence. Because cadence in a business is the communication, cadence is the culture, cadence creates all of this, and it gets everyone rowing the boat in the same direction. So instead of you saying, "Hey, let's do this to everybody, watch this video at DoorGrow," et cetera. They will start to innovate and move outcomes forward because they're given goals and deadlines and then support instead of tasks. And that's where you'll start to see your team really perform. This is where you get like three times the output from your team members. This is where your operational costs drop significantly in relation to the number of people you have per door. And so that's what I see next level for you guys. And once you have that system installed, 600 doors is going to be a piece of cake. [00:32:17] Jeff: Yeah. The other thing too is that I know we need a sales funnel. The funnel right now is this mouth, that's it right now.  [00:32:27] Jason: We got to get you out of that. So what'll be next is either we get you, if you don't have this already, we get you an assistant, a setter, or a sales assistant. And that person will then help you double your capacity currently. because they'll be doing all of the follow up, getting you on calls to close and you can use tactics like the double barrel close and some of these things we talk about. That's maybe, that's like level one, baby step. Level two, we just get you out of doing that all together. We get you a full-time BDM. Just like James Wachob 's team installed Brad, he's been showing up to each of our Wednesday calls where we support the BDMs or the people working on growth and I think he's helped him add like 250, something like that. They've added 400 doors organically in less than a year. [00:33:18] Jeff: Is that Brian Bouler guy?  [00:33:20] Jason: Yeah, Brian Bouler's their operator. And he's, he actually just, yeah, he's a stud. He just became the director of the property management. So he's running all property management and he just hired an operator to replace himself from a Fortune 50 company. Right? So this is like once you have your operator fully functioning as an operator, you get her out of CFO role and you get her into being an operator, then we can start to install DoorGrow OS, get that team to the next level. And part of that plan, I think for your 90 days would be to start to focus on that sales side. If you're ready to ramp up lead gen and growth, then we get you maybe a setter initially, and then we get you a full-time BDM or you can jump straight to getting a BDM and we help you find somebody that can just crush it at sales. We identify the right personality type, they're great at this, and they will go out and just make it rain and create business for you.  [00:34:13] Jeff: I got the hiccups all of a sudden, so I'm like, this is going to look great in the podcast.  [00:34:17] Jason: You're just so excited about the future. Excited. Yeah. And you know, and that BDM could also, and then I think what you would do, if you want to focus on the growth side, if that's still fun for you, you just go out and find more acquisition deals. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's fine. You can even get your BDM to start hunting for acquisition deals as well and feed them to you, and then you do double barrel close that way. They're feeding you to close it. Right? So, anyway, I think that's going to be the next level for you and, you know, maybe what I would maybe have your CFO do is do a time study and maybe you do a time study if you haven't done one for a while, so that you can see where can you support her even more and more quickly to get things off of her plate. What are you doing? Which things do you love the most? Which things don't you? And start to take some things off of her plate and give them to other team members as quick as possible. So, and then you'll know like, this is what she spent her time doing over the last two weeks. You're like, cool, we, these are minus signs. These are things that are lower level dollar an hour work. Let's define these processes and we make that a goal and all that. When you have a cadence and a planning system, you can plug all that into your goals. Like one of your quarterly goals would be transition CFO to operator, for example. Yeah. So we could start to build out those systems even right now with her, we just need to get you and her on board with that. And then you'll see things start to go even faster because you're already working a plan. When we put the plan in a way that everyone else can see it and everyone can contribute, the whole business starts to go faster. Otherwise, it's you pushing her and her pushing everybody else, and it's very top down. When you create a bottom up system, you'll start to feel a lot of momentum. Okay. It's a weird feeling when you start to feel the team pulling you forward instead of you pushing them forward.  [00:36:10] Jeff: So, when you say that, what does that, what do you call that then? Like when you're saying bottom up, you know? When you, everything you just said, like, what is that? Like, what do I call that?  [00:36:21] Jason: So I call that the planning system or DoorGrow OS, the operating system. The operating. So we want to get this operating system installed so that there's this planning cadence and communication. So I'd start with by doing a six core functions assessment with your team brainstorming session. That'll be quarterly planning and it'll take like an hour and a half or two hours. First time you do this as a team.  [00:36:44] Jeff: That's all in os. That whole process is an OS. The step-by-step on that. That was my direction. I need OS, and I need Flow, and I'm like, oh, another thing I got to plan.  [00:36:53] Jason: Yeah that's DoorGrow OS. The planning system. What's cool about it and, if you do the math on this, right? Let's say you do in your annual planning, you spend maybe an hour, a half. Your quarterly planning, you do four times a year. You spend maybe an hour, a half, two hours, right? Each of your monthly planning meetings, which you have 12, that adds up to 12 hours, maybe an hour each, right? Then you're doing your weekly commitments meetings every week. Maybe you'll do about 50 of those a year. Maybe those take an hour, sometimes even just 30 minutes, depending on the size of your team and the aggressiveness of your goals. And the goal on a weekly basis is to hit 80% of your weekly commitments. That's a lot of goals getting achieved. This is outside of the tactical work, outside of the day-to-day work. This is innovating and moving the business forward towards your core functions and what the business needs most and what you need most. [00:37:49] If you stack and add all this up, maybe even add a culture meeting here or there, and you add your daily huddles with your teams that are like maybe 15, 20 minutes, all that combined adds up to, you can run the entire business on 300 hours a year, and it eliminates a massive amount of 'got a minute?'s, sneaker net communication, interruptions, and it makes the business far more efficient.  [00:38:14] Jeff: And that's all lined out in OS. Like I start OS, it's like everything step by step. I can do this. How?  [00:38:22] Jason: Yes. However, my disclaimer is, this is not stuff that you're going to want to do. This is stuff that your operator will probably enjoy doing. Okay, but not you. Okay. Like me, I hear a bunch of meetings. My initial gut reaction is like, "oh gosh, shoot me now." Right? Yeah. Like that sounds like a cumbersome and a waste of my time. It actually speeds you up and speeds up the business and gives you more time, but you don't want to run it. You need somebody else to run it because otherwise you end up as the emperor with no clothes because everybody's going to agree to you, say "whatever Jeff says," you need somebody else to run it. And you're last to speak in all these meetings. Yeah. Then you'll start to see the magic and the genius of your team. because some of them are more closely connected to some of the things that need to shift or move or be innovated or move forward than you are, right? Your maintenance coordinator can see what's going on in maintenance and they probably have ideas. And so this will allow them to start to, you know, bubble up some of these ideas and it'll allow them to innovate. When team members don't get deadlines and outcomes that they're given to achieve. And then they can see that there's need for improvement, instead of innovating, they go and try and spend more of your money. Yeah, exactly. And so the team gets more expensive. And then you, if you give them a blank check, they'll just spend like, "let's go buy this new thing and let's buy that. And that might do this," right? When you give your team a deadline and some constraints and an outcome, they will start to get creative and innovate, and you want your team members to start to think like that. That turns them into intrapreneurs. So getting this system installed, I think will be the big next level thing, and we can start getting that installed right away so Sarah can help you get that set up. And set up a call with you and your operator and you're already working on some goals. So let's just get those goals into a system where everyone can see and make sure you start to move the plan forward, create the plan, work the plan, and you'll start to see the team move forward way faster. [00:40:16] So I'm excited for you man.  [00:40:19] Jeff: Can you believe I got the hiccups? I get hiccups like once every 10 years. I get in the middle of the podcast. Yeah, I'm very excited about that because here's the truth is you're right, like you get to this place at, you know, 150 doors on my own right, that's capacity really no capacity would've been much higher. But doing it well, capacity was 150 doors. Now I'm at 400 something and we're going, well, yeah. I think I could add another a hundred doors before anything breaks, but I know we're there. We're 50 to a hundred doors away from having to do new stuff again. Yeah. I can feel it. And so that's exciting, but dreadful to think, to have to implement myself. [00:40:59] I think that's why I've kind of like, "let's just wait till we get everything we're doing dialed it perfectly before I get into that," but I need to just suck it up. I got to call with Sarah coming up the next couple days and I just need to tell her, okay, let's do OS, whatever. Tell me what to do next. Let's go. [00:41:14] Jason: Yeah. And really we're just going to start working on creating a plan. Then we'll put in the software and you'll start to see when you start having these weekly meetings with your team, you're going to start to see stuff move forward. Like our goal, we sometimes have like 40 things in a single week that we're working on as a team outside of our daily work, like 40 tasks that are assigned to different team members. [00:41:38] And my team members do not want to show up with a red 'no.' Yeah. And this increases their performance level, like you would not believe. They want green yeses when they show up on Monday for our weekly commitments meeting. And that means we are really likely to get all of our 30 day goals done, which means we're really likely to get all of our quarterly goals done because they're all connected. [00:41:59] Yeah. You'll start to see your business move forward really quickly. This is a next level thing. So I'm excited for you to get that installed. because first, you got to have an operator. because I've tried to do it on my own without an operator and I really, I get lazy because I just don't like it. Like, I don't like running the meetings. I'm like, "all right, anyone's stuck on anything? Let's move forward faster." And I just skip steps and I tell people, do things, but when the team starts to run this, your operator will start to run the business. The business will start to run itself. Things will start to move forward without you, and then instead of you feeling like you're the entrepreneur pulling your entire team up the hill in a wagon, which is what it feels like until you get a system like this, you're going to start to see them moving forward ahead of you, and you're going to be the one that is in the wagon and they're pulling you up the hill. You're just going to be there like giving some feedback, coaching them, supporting them, but you'll start to see the business move forward. I'm the biggest constraint on my team. Sarah and the team are using DoorGrow OS, and they're moving the whole business forward constantly. And they're like, "Jason, keep up. We need more from you." And so they're keeping me accountable now. I don't need to keep them accountable because I've got A players and I've got a system that brings that out in them. So that's the next level. Cool, man. Awesome. Well, hey, thanks for coming on the podcast and being vulnerable and sharing some of your struggles and your wins. [00:43:23] Really appreciate you as a client.  [00:43:25] Jeff: Yeah. Appreciate you too, man. It's been a huge life changer. So cool. Well, keep pushing me.  [00:43:32] Jason: Yeah, we'll keep going. We'll get you to that next level as well. So, thousand doors, here we come!  [00:43:37] Jeff: Here we come. All right.  [00:43:39] Jason: All right, thanks. See you. All right, so if you are a property management entrepreneur and you're wanting to get some coaching, you're tired of not having anyone in your corner, maybe nobody's believing in you, maybe not even your spouse is believing in you right now, and you need some hope, you want to have some results like Jeff, you're wanting to move your business forward. We would love to coach and help and support you. Join our mastermind. You can check us out at doorgrow.com. If you're looking like to get nurtured and warmed up a little bit more and you're not really sure about those DoorGrow people, then go to doorgrowclub.com. Join our free Facebook group. We give out better free stuff than most coaches in this industry give out that's paid, and you're going to get access to our master classes and some really cool stuff in there. Join that and you're going to see that we care and we want to see you succeed. And that will hopefully be a nice pathway into you becoming a client and working with DoorGrow and taking your business to that next level. And finally getting what you deserve, getting paid what you deserve, and having the business that you dream of having. [00:44:47] Until next time everybody, to our mutual growth. Bye everyone.  [00:44:51] Jason Hull: You just listened to the #DoorGrowShow. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet in the DoorGrowClub. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead content, social direct mail, and they still struggle to grow!  [00:45:18] At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge: getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today's episode on our blog doorgrow.com, and to get notified of future events and news subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow Hacking your business and your life.

This episode is brought to you by CFS School, a nervous system healing program. Learn more today and book your free discovery call by visiting their website. Sign ups for the Live June Cohort available now!  You can also follow them on IG @CFSSchool  Jason has had a lifelong interest in health and fitness, vastly impacted by his illness. With a lot of hard work, mind shifts, false hope, trial and error he is now on his way to having better health and fitness than ever before.  He has faced the gamut of chemical sensitivity, mold sensitivity, symptoms of MCAS, extreme weight loss, chronic pain, and even part-time homelessness. Jason is now a medical fitness specialist in Auburn, AL and owns his own business.  Tune in to learn how Jason navigated his recovery through DNRS, Gupta Program, Corrective exercise and other modalities to get his life back on track.  His most recent success has been discovered through the use of hypnosis, which he learned about on this podcast after our interview and was inspired to give it a try. He has reported to me that his wins continue as he progresses.  In this episode we discuss:  What has/hasn't worked for Jason How valuable family support has been for him on this journey His willingness to explore healing from all angles (nervous system regulation, brain retraining, physical corrective exercise techniques, western medicine and more)  What he is up to these days and his continued plans/goals as he continues to make progress in his healing.  Ways to connect with me: Podcast Website: www.ourpoweriswithin.com Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/479295097514091 Podcast IG: https://www.instagram.com/ourpoweriswithin/ Check out my favorite product recommendations (good for us, good for the Earth) For more information on other Self Healing Programs: Primal Trust Academy Use code OPIW for 5% off DNRS  GUPTA  Disclaimer: The Content provided on this podcast is for informational purposes only. This content is not intended to be a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified health provider with any questions you may have regarding a medical condition. Never disregard professional medical advice or delay in seeking it because of something you have heard on this podcast. Individual results may vary.  Show notes may contain affiliate links to products. I may receive a commission for purchases made through these links. Thank you for your support.  --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/ourpoweriswithin/support

This is the last episode of the 3 part series with Jason Whiley who generously shared with us his and his wife's infertility story and his perspective on various topics. This is a series that you shouldn't miss as there are so many golden nuggets in every minute. Jason beautifully described his debut to fatherhood, how the black community should share information more and how black women should talk about real things more to uplift and help one another. Topics Covered: What is Fatherhood to Jason How celebrities can be glamorizing infertility How difficult parenting is and nobody tells you How Black women don't talk about infertility Normalizing sharing concepts and new ideas to your community and friends Creating a histogram for generations About The Show: A Tribe Called Fertility is a platform to share conversations about maternal health, black families, and their experiences around fertility. Our mission is to provide support and possible solutions to decrease birth disparities for black babies and maternal mortality outcomes for black women. Read more about the hosts and their birth stories in Our Stories page. About Jason Wiley: With over 10 years of experience in the entertainment industry, Jason has been responsible for creating, developing, and executing a variety of marketing programs. Working with numerous successful artists, entertainers and cultural icons has challenged Jason to create a variety of multi-level marketing strategies that focused on the greatest exposure and financial return for both the artist and the company. Strategies for each artist had to be different and unique in order to cut through the competition and successfully reach a paying consumer that in today's world is less inclined to spend money on music. It was only through proper analysis, planning, budgeting and strategizing that Jason was able to meet our financial goals and successfully launch artist careers, albums, and brands on a domestic and international level. Marketing multi-dimensional artists whose daily activity have an influence on their brand has driven Jason to not only be able to create long term plans, but also able to revise marketing efforts quickly and effectively. Through the years, Jason has been responsible for forecasting budgets, budget analysis, business development, media planning, ad creation, strategic planning, project management, team management and building while overseeing implementation of all marketing efforts. Connect with Jason Wiley: LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jason-wiley555 Connect with Us: Website: https://atribecalledfertility.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/atribecalledfertility/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/atcf_podcast YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCMbjB2PHM2LLmc3_rzX0EEw Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/atribecalledfertility --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/a-tribe-called-fertility/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/a-tribe-called-fertility/support

For Jason, environmental sustainability is important. But more than that, personal sustainability is important--that is, finding work that lights your inner fire and makes you want to go out into the world and do good. He's found that life at Rivian.  Since transitioning out of the oil and gas industry in 2017, native Texan Jason Cortes has turned to renewable and rechargeable energies. In between, he worked to help the community install and service clean energy solutions, and, ultimately, future-proof their businesses. He is now the RSM of the start-up Rivian, working on EVs and building the future himself.  On today's episode of Thinking Green, Jason brings his oil and gas background to the conversation about renewable energies. He moved to the industry in order to chase his passion, and give meaning to his labors--which he's done, as he has now spent five years making EV chargers publicly accessible. Tune in today to hear them jam about educating the public, current barriers to entry, and the future for many petroleum-based vehicle companies as they pledge to become all-electric.    What You'll Learn: How the new energy economy came to the petroleum industry, gas stations, and, in turn, Jason How long the gas station model will continue to live before it is replaced with different technology, Why some people are still hesitant to buy an EV  What attracted Jason to Rivian, and what he thinks about the future of EVs And so much more!   Favorite Quote:  “We're all in this together. We're all moving in the same direction--forward.” Mohammed Abdalla   How to Get Involved:  You can find Jason and all his most recent writings on LinkedIn. If what you heard resonated with you, you can find Mohammed on LinkedIn or his website.  And don't forget to visit us on Apple Podcasts to leave a review and let us know what you thought! Your feedback keeps us going. Thanks for helping us spread the word!   

AMAC Podcast show 42 - Featuring special interview with Jason How. Plus loads of new music from The Shop Window, The Great Leslie, Jason How, We Ghosts, My Evert and Disco Drug Store.

Hey everybody and welcome to episode 234 of How I Built It, the podcast that offers actionable tech tips for small business owners. Today's sponsors are TextExpander, and Nexcess. Jason How knows a thing or two about ads, start with this: don't start with Ads. Jason gives us a couple of important aspects of running ads you think to think about before actually running the ads - like how to get your offer to a place that will compel people to actually click on ads. Top Takeaways BEFORE you run any ads, you need to get your offer right. Figure our whom you serve and do the research to make sure your offer is a good one. The messaging will be completely based on the offer. Get people into your funnel with a clear CTA, and have a good confirmation page. Show Notes: Jason HowJason on Linkedin Jason on FacebookJason on TwitterAgency J on LinkedinZipMessageS.I.N. Offer by Todd BrownHyrosBuild Something Club

What makes podcasting unique from all other platforms in terms of generating high ticket clients? If you're as curious as I am, then listen in as Jason How delves through the know-hows with me. Jason is the man behind the successful generation of high ticket enrollees by top Coaching and Education businesses today. He's generous enough to share his marketing secrets in this episode, particularly in the aspect of podcasting and growing a 6-figure business through high ticket clients. Find out how this Math wizard is leveraging data in growing and scaling a podcast!  In this episode:  [5:06] Discover the fundamental key to success in the podcasting genre that 6 out of 10 podcasters fail to pay attention to. [9:10] Find out why the high ticket model is the most profitable business model in the podcasting funnel. [12:29] Identify the 3 distinct places where a podcast fits in the picture in terms of generating traffic for high ticket clients and the turning point when paid advertising starts paying off. [17:26] There's something far more important than a podcast! Discover what it is and how you can leverage podcast relationships as marketing research.

In this episode, Tyler Narducci chats with Jason How of Agency J. Jason is a powerhouse marketer that produced $20M+ in revenue for clients; He served as an enterprise consultant to Hootsuite's most valued enterprise customers; And he's self-proclaimed "math nerd", who started his journey by writing technical articles about Facebook, which eventually led him to run social media ads for customers. Today, Jason How is an entrepreneur and owner of Agency J - a vertically integrated agency helping course creators and high-ticket coaches grow and scale their business to multiple six-figure months. Topics covered: Building a remote agency team Vertically integrated vs media buying focused agencies Choosing the right agency model Who to hire for your agency and in what order How to manage a remote team Boosting remote team morale and building a culture Mindset for agency owners and mindset practices Hiring media buyers Hiring copywriters And SO MUCH MORE! Want to skip all the "learned it the hard way" mistakes most agency owners make? Ready to implement a system that cranks out high-ticket leads, rapidly builds your team, and lands your new deals FOR YOU? Apply for the 'Done-For-You' Agency here: https://sobeviral.com/application Join the Discussion in the official Facebook Ads Agency Builders Group https://www.facebook.com/groups/316239689151026/ --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/faab/message

"Your claim can only be as big as your results". In today's podcast, Jason How and I discuss various best practices to grow and scale a digital business, from having an active Facebook group to having a strong offer and funnel.  Jason is the Managing Director of Agency J, a marketing agency that has produced $20M+ in verifiable revenue for their clients. He worked his way into social media marketing and started from zero. He is a contributor for authority marketing blogs like Social Media Examiner and has served as an enterprise consultant to Hootsuite's most valued enterprise customers.  Find out how to scale your business to 6 figures a month with Jason How in this episode. Check out this podcast and leave us some feedback! Connect with Jason How: Website: https://agencyj.co/team/ Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jasonhow/ Connect with Chris Bello: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/chrisbello_ Get my free guide: https://chrisbello.com/free Get help buying/selling a house in the US: https://calendly.com/chrisbellorealestate/workwithchris

Welcome to another great episode, today I am with Jason How - Founder & Managing Director of Agency JIn this episode, we will be talking about Scaling in the educational space. Jason How specializes in helping coaching and Education businesses enroll more students through innovative positioning and digital marketing strategies. Thanks for listening to The Digital Agency Hacker Podcast! Feel free to share your thoughts, I love to read feedback and ways of improving :)

This guest, a self-proclaimed math nerd, has an interesting beginning. After reading a Tim Ferris blog decided there must be a better way and shifted his career path. Listen as Jason describes his journey to become a social media expert and founder of Agency J. Within this episode, Andy and Jason discuss the origin story behind how he created Agency J, an agency that today focuses on helping coaches, course creators and education business owners. To be successful using Facebook ads, you must first define your parameters and then create your marketing system. In addition, it is important to know who your customers is and to clarify your message. Discover why. Through Jason's experience discover how Facebook advertising has changed including what the new iOS14.5 change may mean for your Facebook advertising. Episode Action Items: To learn more about Jason How or to connect with his agency that specializes in helping coaches, course creators and education business owners, visit - https://agencyj.co (https://agencyj.co) or visit his blog at https://jasonhjh.com/ (jasonhjh.com).

We have Jason How, founder and managing director of Agency J, with us today! Agency J helps course creators and coaches grow their businesses through FB/IG media buys, ad creatives, copywriting, emails, and funnel page design and development. And with over 9 years of experience under his belt, he and his team have generated $20M+ for their clients. If you’ve been in the space at all, then you’ll know that a lot of business owners first objections is that they’ve been burned by bad courses and coaches in the past, Jason wants to put an end to that. This is why he only partners with clients who already have a proven track record, that is capable of really succeeding and making a difference in the space. On the show we’ll talk: - Media buying and the importance of the data analysis framework - The math, strategy, and operations science behind scaling FB ads - Differentiating your business through your funnel, and how to make it as frictionless, non-salesy as possible

Latest Podcast featuring great music from Kevin Iverson, Jason How, My Everest, Higgs and the Bosons, We Ghosts, little Suspicions & Luke J Dorman.

The Tone Control has a Discord server! If you like the show and enjoy talking about everything from new gear to music theory to video games, come hang out and chat with us. Discord is open and free to all fans of The Tone Control! Intro music: “The Sky Beneath Our Feet” by Ghost Stories. Want to feature your music in the intro for The Tone Control? Hit us up! Community Challenge: How much guitar do you play? (Stab: Strymon Timeline) Question from Jason: How are bands handling practice during the pandemic? (stab: MP 1) Review Reviews (stab: Caroline Olympia) Best Choice Products 41 inch Full Size Beginner All Wood Cutaway Acoustic Guitar Starter Set With Case, Strap, Capo, Strings, picks, and tuner! Review from Casey H “Great bang for the buck!” I had to return to the TU-3S always-on Tuner from Boss. Review from Russell in May 2018. Universal Audio is making guitar pedals! (stab: 805) “Dual processor engine” True or buffered bypass, spillover and trails available Additional downloadable effects from UAD Three pedals: Golden Reverberator has 3 reverbs: 60’s tube driven spring tank, a vintage German studio plate reverb, and 1970s digital reverb Starlight Echo Station: Tape, analog, and digital Astra Modulation Machine: 70’s Japanese bucket brigade chorus/vibrato, flanger/doubler, and tube amp trem. $400 each, preorders available. Pedal Genie - Seymour Duncan Palladium gain stage - $299 Rivolta Regata VII (stab: Meris Mercury 7 Reverb) 335 Style offering from Rivolta guitars, of course made by Denis Fano of Novo and Fano guitars. Rivolta is the import/affordable line from Novo Laminated maple top and back, mahogany frame and center block. Double bound body, set mahogany neck, bound ebony fingerboard with aged pearloid big block inlays. 12” radius, 25” scale with 24 medium jumbo frets. 2 Rivolta “Brevetto” humbuckers with master tone and volume, 3 way selector. I love the look of this thing. $1500 BIG SHOUT OUT TO OUR PATRONS! Riesenwolf! Andrew Walsh Jamie Evans Jeffrey Wright Doug King Doug Gann Righteous Ryan Johnson Steve Huffman Jonas Sabatini Eric Girabaldi OG Friend of the show Brian Rizzi Doug Christ of Thirty7 FX Sean Wright of Lollygagger FX Brian Gower and Kyle McIntyre of The Tone Jerks Podcast --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thetonecontrol/message

What a treat to interview our dear friends and Broadway Power Couple Robyn Hurder and Clyde Alves! Currently in Moulin Rouge! on Broadway, Robyn's other Broadway credits include Chitty Chitty Bang Bang, Chicago, The Wedding Singer, Grease, and Nice Work If You Can Get It, where she and Clyde performed together. You may have seen Clyde in Broadway's On The Town, Anything Goes, Bullets Over Broadway, Wicked, Hairspray, and Oklahoma. Quite the list, right? Their love story started at the age of 19 at Maine State Music Theatre. They have been each other's biggest support and cheerleader through more shows and travels and changes than you can imagine. We love their energy, humor, teamwork, and their unfailing love for each other and this business that brought them together. It's been our great pleasure to watch their love grow over the years, and evolve into a full-on triangle when they became parents to their amazing son. When you talk to old friends, nothing is off limits: their early impressions of one another, dating, moving in, the decision to become parents, first grade in the pandemic, Instagram… you name it. Robyn and Clyde are ready to talk about it! This week's SPOTLIGHT ON LOVE comes to us from our listener Jason: How do you stay sane as a couple being together in quarantine 24 hours a day? What are some suggestions? Robyn and Clyde knew that their relationship was going to last when they could say absolutely anything in front of one another. Without meaning to, they created a safe space where everything was allowed. How about you? What was the moment that told you this relationship is going to go the distance? We love relationship stories. Go ahead. Tell us yours! ***** Follow us http://instagram.com/broadwayhusbands http://facebook.com/broadwayhusbands http://youtube.com/broadwayhusbands  Bret http://bretshuford.com http://instagram.com/bretshuford http://twitter.com/bretshuford http://snapchat.com/thebretshuford http://facebook.com/bretshuford Stephen http://instagram.com/stephenrhanna http://twitter.com/stephenrhanna We are grateful to be a part of the Broadway Podcast Network.Thanks to David Dabbon for our theme music and to Sophie Kay Photography for our image. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Do you want to become a better investor? Appreciate and understand property managers—the unsung heroes that make better tenants and owners. Good property managers can change the world. Today’s guest is Bobby Sharma from BetterCapital, a portfolio measurement and management tool for real estate investors. Bobby started his real estate career in Riverside, California, and his first foray into real estate was through house hacking.  You’ll Learn... [02:14] House Hacking: Buy a house, but get roommates to pay most of your mortgage. [03:58] Bobby’s Background: Software developer that wanted to be in Silicon Valley. [04:47] 2010 Market Collapse: Bobby bought some homes that needed some work. [05:03] Meetup Group: Bobby started a real estate meetup group in the East Bay Area. [05:40] Becoming a landlord, buying out of state, and working with property managers. [06:18] BetterCapital: Management/measurement portfolio tool for real estate investors. [07:47] Measurement: Tracks deposits, loan balances, ROI, and equity growth. [09:00] Management: Stores documents, adds reminders, and runs math formulas.  [09:53] Real Estate Results: One of the best ways to invest, grow wealth, plan for future.  [10:35] Preferential Partners: Property managers/realtors project property performance.  [15:00] API/bank integration? Scrape data into systems or pool data w/API connection. [19:41] Three Ts: Tracking, training, and transaction.  [24:13] Education: Property managers should explain challenges to investors. [25:48] Property Managers: Unsung heroes that make better tenants and owners. Tweetables “I love my property managers. Without them, I wouldn't be successful. I totally get the importance of property management.” “We want people to see how much wealth they have created, or how much equity they've created because we want to encourage them to purchase real estate assets.” “If you look at it across a long period of time, it turns out that it's one of the best ways to invest, to grow your wealth, and to plan for your future.” “We want to provide education to make them a better investor. They will appreciate the role of the property manager a little bit more.” Resources Bobby Sharma’s Email BetterCapital AppFolio Cozy TenantCloud Rent Manager Buildium Propertyware Schwab Etrade Robinhood Redfin Yardi 1031 Exchange DoorGrow on Instagram DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive Transcript Jason: Welcome, DoorGrow Hackers, to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow Hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you’re crazy for doing it, you think they’re crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their business owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change the perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I’m your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let’s get into the show. My guest today is Bobby Sharma. Welcome, Bobby Sharma. Bobby: Thank you, Jason. Jason: Bobby is with a company called BetterCapital. Bobby, you have quite an extensive real estate experience. I grew up in Rancho Cucamonga, Alta Loma, California. We were touching bases for the show. You got your start in real estate somewhere in the Inland Empire. Bobby: In the Inland Empire, yeah. Riverside, California. I did what's called house hacking. Back then, there was no such term. I was 24 years old, worked in Corona, California, and lived in Riverside, California. That's how I got my start in the real estate world. Jason: Define house hacking for those that are not house hackers. Bobby: I was single. I ended up buying a house—three bedrooms, two baths—with the intention of maybe I'll get a couple of roommates, and they'll help me with the mortgage. I put an ad in the Riverside Enterprise, I don't know if you recall that newspaper. This is the late 1980s, early ‘90s. I got two roommates, great guys. They were my roommates for a long time, also single. One was a plumber, one was an X-ray tech. Long story short, they helped me pay for most of my mortgage. Not quite 100%, but most of my mortgage. Jason: Nice. All right. And that was your first foray into real estate investing. This sparks something for you. You thought of it, but your roommates, apparently, didn't. They're willing to pay rent. I lovingly refer to the Inland Empire as the armpit of California. Bobby: Absolutely. Jason: I had a good childhood growing up there. Now, I'm in Austin, Texas which I'm really enjoying. I got out just before the craziness of the pandemic, and California's gone insane. It's gone insane with all the stuff that's going on right now. Bobby, give us a little bit of history since that first experiment and give us a little background—qualify yourself. Help the audience understand your experience in real estate or surrounding the property management rental industry. Bobby: Absolutely. Thank you, Jason. Since then, I was 24 back then. Then, I had to take a break. I got married. I didn't do much in real estate. But about 10 years ago, when I saw the market really collapse—that was in 2010—I moved up to Silicon Valley. I was a software developer back in Southern California. But I always wanted to be in Silicon Valley, work for one of these technology companies that Silicon Valley is famous for. Sure enough, I worked for one of them. In 2010, I just saw the market collapse here in the Bay Area as well. I said you know what? I have some savings, so I started going out and picking up some homes that needed a little bit of work. Long story short, I also started a real estate meetup group in the Bay Area, in the East Bay. We call it the East Bay Meetup near Oakland. There weren't a lot of meetups going on, but most of them were in San Jose or San Francisco, and the people were fighting the commute. Long story short, I ended up starting a meetup in the Oakland area. Fortunately, that meetup has now become the largest real estate meetup in the Bay Area. I've got about 5000 members. We used to meet up every month. Out of that, I ended up becoming a landlord, buying out of state, and working with property managers. I love my property managers. Without them, I wouldn't be successful. I totally get the importance of property management. We own a bunch of rental properties—a lot of single-family, a lot of multifamily, but a lot of it is out of state for cash flow reasons as in cash flow in California. We ended up with several hundred doors out in the Midwest, mainly. Jason: How did BetterCapital come about, and what is it? Bobby: Just like a lot of people in my meetup group, we're active real estate investors. I have rental properties. I'm a private money lender. I have syndications. In a couple of properties out in Ohio, I do what's called seller financing. We own a bunch of rental properties, a bunch of real estate assets. I was tracking everything through Excel, but that was just not cutting it for me. You can't store documents inside of Excel. Things were scattered all over my computer, in my Gmail, and in my Dropbox—leases, insurance, tax bills, reminders, and everything. What I did was I worked with a technology partner of mine, and we put all the essential tools to track your portfolio. We're not AppFolio. We're not Cozy. We're not TenantCloud. We're not a property management software, but we talk to a bunch of property management systems. We are like a portfolio measurement and portfolio management tool for real estate investors. Jason: Explain the measurement part. Bobby: Yeah. What we do there, Jason, is if you bought a property five years ago, you're getting your checks every now and then. Your property manager is depositing the checks in your bank account. Sometimes it's not what you expected because there was a repair, or you don't know what your loan balance is on the property. What we do is we track the actual deposits in your account. We track your loan balances. We track the equity in your properties across the board, and then we give you a return on investment. What did you invest in that property, and what's your annual return on investment? What's your equity growth? The analogy I like to draw is if you log in to your Schwab, E-Trade, or Robinhood account, you can see the equity of your stocks. How much did you gain in your stock if you bought Apple five years ago? Or you bought Amazon 10 years ago, how much have you gained? We didn't have something like that for real estate investors. What we built was a tool. It has the ability to store documents. It has the ability to put reminders to track your equity growth, to see in a graphical manner how this property performed over the past year, this year, over the past five years, and then since you bought it. We have a lot of mathematical formulas that run in the background and then you can track. We want people to see how much wealth they have created, or how much equity they've created because we want to encourage them to purchase real estate assets. Jason: I would be curious if they can measure this better, and they can see the performance, do they tend to invest more? Bobby: Exactly. That's the whole idea, right? Real estate over time has so many benefits. Sometimes, especially property managers, they are so busy with day to day operations that they forget to remind the investors, the landlords, about the benefits of owning real estate. Yes, there are bumps in the road. There's going to be a turnover here and there. There's going to be an eviction here and there. But if you look at it across a long period of time, it turns out that it's one of the best ways to invest, to grow your wealth, and to plan for your future. What we want to do is we want to help property managers and realtors—those are our partners. Property management, which is your audience, as well. If we could help your current set of landlords grow their doors, maybe you bring a portfolio of new assets that they can purchase. But you can demonstrate that, look, if you bought this property with us in Tulsa, Oklahoma, in Dallas, Texas, or El Paso, Texas. If you've owned this property, here's how much equity you've gained. Here's how much your cash flow was last year. Here's how the property performed. Then, you can then have a really strong case to go back to them and say, listen, here's another similar property that is available on the market. Would you like to maybe consider adding a door or a couple of doors to your portfolio? Jason: It sounds like this is a largely effective tool for the investor. You have a way that investors can see and manage their entire portfolio. They have, say, 100 properties, or maybe they have like 20, 30 doors or something. They can see this portfolio. Then there's a way they can invite their property manager in to also see this portfolio, keep this updated, or to connect to it? Bobby: Absolutely. The property managers and realtors play a very important role. The owner can always invite their property manager to see the property in the system or communicate with that property manager. The other is that the property manager can invite the landlords to the system as well. When they upload a list of their landlords, we create what's called a preferential relationship and the exclusive preferential relationship between the property manager that loaded up the landlords in the system. That way, if you have a new portfolio that you want to maybe broadcast to your existing landlords, you can broadcast it to our platform. You can also let them know that, hey, listen. Here's a similar property that gives you the same kind of returns. It's in the same area. You may want to consider looking at purchasing this one. We want to help the property managers and the realtors have that exclusive kind of relationship with the landlords. Jason: There's this performance side of it. Maybe if an investor is looking at getting into a property, is there any forecasting that's similar? Is there a forecast inside? Like, here's a possible future roadmap of what this investment could do. Bobby: Very good question, Jason. That's on our roadmap. One of the things we want to do is forecasting or projecting the performance of a property that may be on the MLS or it may be in the portfolio of the property manager. Maybe somebody's looking to sell that portfolio. In the future, we will have what's called a forecasting calculator. You can submit that property. You can punch in all the numbers, and then the system will forecast. Within our platform, they'll be able to see the projections. We also have a way for the user to say, okay, if the application is forecasted at 3%, they can adjust that. They can say, what if it only appreciated 2%? Or if the rent appreciation was 5%, what if it was only 3%? And so on. We will give them that tool, but yes, that is on the road map. Jason: Very cool. Now, does this have an API integration? Because a lot of property managers, they are not going to want to go in and up the second system. They've got their property management back office. They're using Rent Manager, AppFolio, Buildium, or Propertyware typically. Is there a way of either scraping that data into those systems or maybe through an API connection pooling all that data in? Bobby: Very much so. We talk to the most popular property management applications out there. Most of them have APIs. If they don't have APIs, we allow the user to import an Excel file. Very easy to do. It takes about less than two minutes to set up a property in the system. Once they get really good at importing data, it takes about five minutes to import the data if they're new. But once the property is set up in the system, then it literally takes 30 seconds to update a property every month. Once a month, what are the main items that you're looking at? It's once a month, typically. Maybe sometimes twice a month. You're looking at, did your rent come in? Did you pay your mortgage? Did you pay your insurance and taxes? Did you pay your property management fees? But it's really very simple to bring that data in. We have bank integration. You can also pull the data from a bank. By the way, the property manager doesn't have to do this. The landlord can do this. The only thing the property manager has to do is load up the client list the first time and then reestablish that. The first property manager to load that landlord into the system gets the exclusive relationship. That's the first-come, first-served relationship that they have. But after that, the landlord should be able to go in and update the system. And it's very easy to do that. It's in their best interest to see the performance of their assets, right? So they do a bulk of the data entry. Jason: That exclusivity sounds really exciting (I'm sure) to the property management business owners that are listening. Because this could be something that they could upsell as a feature for their more invested investors, those that have lots of doors. It can be an upsell or a premium price point on their premium plan that they offer for the more savvy investor clients. Now, related to that—and I don't know if this is a possible future feature request or idea—but a lot of property managers love owning their brand. Would it be possible to white label this service that it's their thing if they have that? Bobby: A very good question. Our service is free to the landlords. As long as they're not over 15 or so doors, it's free. But to answer your question, we do plan for the larger property managers to have their own white-label co-branded service. Not a problem. It's available. Jason: Okay, very cool. What else can this do? Bobby: We built this platform for investors like myself. Look, I'm a big champion of real estate agents and property managers. Their jobs are often thankless. We forget how much work they do behind the scenes. Managing properties, not an easy task by any means. We are big cheerleaders and supporters of property managers, of real estate agents. At the same time, the landlords need to be able to track their system a little bit better. Our goal is, we call it the three T's. Tracking. To my meet up for the past 10 years, I've been providing education. I've been an evangelist for better real estate investing. We bring in experts on whether it's fix-and-flip, buying remote properties remotely, syndications, private money lending, asset protection for real estate investors—just about any topic that has to do with real estate. We've been teaching that in our meetup. We're going to embed that into the system. If the landlords, the property managers, and real estate agents want to become better at something, we're going to have an expert present once a month. Tracking, training, that's our second key. The third T is the transaction. If the property managers, realtors, have a deal that is what I call investor-grade that they want to send out to their members, then we want to enable transactions. We're not Redfin. We're not one of those sites. But we allow them to communicate about it. It could be a pocket listing. It could be a property manager where the landlord is retiring or doing a 1031, but he wants to sell off his portfolio without putting it on the MLS, for example. Let's figure out how to communicate within the system to the potential buyers because the people that are in the system who are happy with their performance and their relationship with their property manager, they will want to acquire more doors. Those are our three Ts—tracking, training, and transactions. Jason: It's almost like a trading platform. Is this essentially like the E-Trade for real estate investments instead of the stock portfolio? Bobby: It is. That's very much our vision. The training is there. The transaction piece is not there. But that's what we're building right now. Jason, in a nutshell, it is E-Trade for real estate because we don't compete with the AppFolios, the YardEase, the Buildiums of the world, but we partner with them. We don't want the property managers to change what they're doing. Whatever they're doing is fine. We will learn to live alongside the systems they have in place. Jason: This seems to be just such a missing piece to give investors a real tool. Most property managers are just so caught up on just at least, at the very bare minimum of giving their investors a statement or a report at the end of the month. But there's a big difference between managing as a real estate investment and just looking at the expenses for the month, the rent, and whatnot, and seeing a report. Seeing it as an actual investment, and maybe even seeing a chart to see what's actually going on. You get a sense of whether you're losing or gaining. It seems like such a simple, brilliant, missing puzzle piece in the ecosystem. Kudos to you for coming up with this. Now, are there other things like this out on the market? Bobby: I think people are finally realizing that a similar tool is needed. There are a couple of players out there. What we have done is we have taken a comprehensive approach to real estate investing. What are people interested in? They're interested, obviously, in tracking, like the performance of their assets. That's done in Excel, and it's done on a very ad hoc basis. It's not real-time, and it's a lot of keystrokes. What we want to do is we want to automate a lot of that so that once you put the property into the system, then a lot of the updates are done automatically. The other piece is nobody's providing education. I truly believe that as property managers, it's equally important to educate the investors about the challenges, right? If there are evictions, if there are turnovers, let there be some transparency. What we want to do is we want to prepare our users to become better investors. Part of that is understanding the challenges or the opportunities that property management companies and realtors face. A property manager's job is not easy at all. You have to be really thick-skinned to be a property manager. Well, let's appreciate that so that when your rent is a little bit lower than expected, or you have a turnover that's taking a little bit longer. If the investor, the landlord is better educated, maybe they won't get upset as much. They will understand, okay, you know what? This is winter in Michigan, and it's going to take a little bit longer to put a tenant into the house or the property. We want to provide education to make them a better investor. They will appreciate the role of the property manager a little bit more. Jason: That's the role of the property manager. I mean, property managers are the unsung heroes of the real estate investing category or industry. They make tenants better. They make the owners better. They hold everyone to a higher standard, and they make properties better all around. Good property managers really do change the world. I love what you're talking about how the education piece is going to improve the quality of clients. It's going to take their client from where they are now, give them a greater understanding, which most likely increases their logical need to use a property manager. They understand, oh, this is a bit more complicated than these home TV shows and reality shows made it out to be flipping a house or renting it out. This is worth touching on because I think there are some small-minded, scarcity-minded property managers. Maybe they're newer to the industry, but they're thinking, oh, no. The only reason people will need me is if they're not educated. But I think the reverse is true. The more educated a client becomes, the more they can see clearly the liabilities involved, the dangers, the potential pitfalls, the time, and they don't want to touch it. They want to let go of that piece. They want to be an investor. They don't want to be a shitty part-time property manager. Bobby: Exactly. Jason: They do that full time. Bobby: You nailed it, Jason. Your perception is right on. The better-educated, the better-informed, the landlord, the investor is, the easier it'll be to work with them versus a total newbie who thinks it's just very simple to hire a property manager. That every month, magic, a check will show up. It just doesn't work that way, especially now in the pandemic era that we're living in, it's even more challenging. This is the time when property managers need to communicate more, not less, about what's going on in the court systems, the eviction process, and so on and so forth. You're right. The members in my real estate meetup group, the ones that are well-educated about investing are the ones that are buying more rental properties. The ones that are not educated, they just bought their primary home, and they never buy a rental property. The extent of their real estate investment is their primary home. Sometimes, they outgrow that primary home. Then, they buy another home, and they keep the old one as a rental. They're not proactive in going out there and learning about rental properties and the benefits of rental properties with the tax advantages and so on. That's where our partners, real estate property managers, realtors, and educators can really come in and help out. Jason: I think the tempting mistake that a lot of software people coming into this industry is that they try to cut out the property manager. I've seen this over and over and over again. They think, well, we could replace this critical relationship and negotiation piece with software. That can't be done in the hospitality industry, it certainly can't be done in the property management industry, and it also can't really be done in the real estate industry significantly because these are relationship things. There are negotiations, there are people involved, there are feelings, there are humans, and there's a lot that software can do. But software really should be enabling and facilitating those things. Not trying to replace those things. I love that you're incorporating property managers. I think this a wise move as you're moving forward. It allows you to connect with a lot of people that have investment portfolios. And it doesn't try to cut the property manager out of that in which we end up with a whole bunch of [...] then we end up with a bunch of crappy property managers, which are just people DIY-ing their management, and not really doing a great job. Then they have software tools that are supposed to say that it makes it easy, but things have fallen through the cracks. Laws are getting broken, tenants aren't protected, owners aren't protected, and silly stuff is being done. Very cool stuff. Is there anything else you'd like the audience to know about BetterCapital before they go? If so or if not, how can they get ahold of you? And how can they try this thing out? Bobby: Thank you, Jason. First of all, it's a pleasure to be on your show. I really enjoyed it. I've watched your videos, so thank you for doing what you're doing for your community, which is your audience of property managers. You're doing a fabulous job. Thank you for that. Look, our goal is very simple. We want to serve the real estate community in general. From newbies to seasoned investors, we want to give them tools. I'll be the first one at any of my meetups. If they're buying a property remotely, they need to engage with a good property manager because it's literally a marriage between you and the property manager for the next 10, 20 years. However long you hold that asset, that's how long that relationship needs to last. It's very easy to get a hold of me. It's bobby@bettercapital.us. We couldn't get the dot-com, so we got the dot-us. It's bettercapital.us. Look, we're in what's called a beta version right now. We're coming out of the beta version. We'll go live very soon. But we'd love to get your feedback. We'd love to incorporate your feedback into our product. We'd love to make you a partner. We'd love to see the property management companies that choose to work with us, we want to see them succeed. We'll highlight them, we'll showcase them, and we'll work with them. Jason: Awesome. Property managers, if you're listening, this is your chance to help shape this tool to be something you really want. You can be the ultimate beta tester, and then you'll have the ultimate product that would really serve your needs. Take him up on that offer. Well, Bobby, I appreciate you coming on the show. Thank you for your gracious words. I hope you have some success with this. Bobby: Thank you, Jason, and likewise. Hopefully, we'll stay connected. I'll keep you posted on our progress. Jason: Awesome. All right, check them out at bettercapital.us. For those that are somehow new to this show because you just stumbled upon it. I was going to say, it was interesting hearing, thank you for doing the podcast. I was thinking, sometimes it's a thankless job. But I'm like, wait a second, he's thanking me. But sometimes, it is a thankless job. I'm putting out free content. We pay a good chunk of change to have this podcast produced and to put out there. My team does social media marketing to get it out there as well. We do make money, don't get me wrong. We get paid really well to help property management businesses get paid really well. But if you want to do something to reciprocate—besides becoming one of our clients—make sure to like our stuff. Follow us. You can subscribe on YouTube and follow. Leave us a review on iTunes. We'd really appreciate it. If you're looking to grow your property management business, you are struggling or trapped in one of these growth sand traps, maybe around 50 or 60 doors. The solar [...] sand trap. You can't figure out how to get ahead. You don't have the revenue to hire your next person. You can't seem to get more doors than you're losing and you just stay stuck there. Or maybe you're in the second sand trap, 200-400 doors, and you just can't figure out how to get the right people to do what you want them to do. You're getting overwhelmed because your team is always asking you all the time, all the questions. You're feeling overwhelmed, and you realize you are the biggest bottleneck in your business. There is a roadmap out of that. Very easy to get out of. You can listen to some of the previous episodes. But reach out to us at DoorGrow. We would love to have a conversation and see if you'd be a fit, see if we could help you grow your business and be the property managers making a difference out there in the world. Until next time, everyone. To our mutual growth. Bye, everybody.

There’s no LAW & ORDER in suburban Chicago when ECW comes to town for Anarchy Rulz ‘99. Bowl God RVD defends the ECW TV Title against... well, someone in our alleged main event. Taz, with one foot out the door and the crowd knows it, defends his ECW World Championship against Masato Tanaka and maybe someone else, too. Raven’s back and puts in a WCW-level effort along with Tommy Dreamer as they take on Steve Corino and Rhyno. Will Tajiri and Super Crazy fight on ECW PPV again? And how worthless is Jason? How many jobbers can New Jack destroy with one trash can of weapons? And are those things fake? JR and Mikey answer those questions and more on the latest edition of TLD.

Jason How realized he had no passion for the career he was pursuing. After reading a post on Tim Ferriss' blog, he worked his way into "social media marketing".As an auto-proclaimed "math nerd", he focused on writing technical articles about Facebook, which eventually lead him to running social media ads for customers.Jason has a solid track record working with "Education" clients - which are usually not very sophisticated, when it comes to marketing... but can be real good at selling.According to him, having success in your campaigns comes down to 3 things: irresistible offer, a converting funnel, and high-quality traffic.He also talks about what are the best type of clients a media buyer could ask for.You can reach out to Jason How by email jason@agencyj.co or visit his website, at https://www.agencyj.coHire an AdSkills certified media buyer. Click here

Are you a property manager who spends too much time struggling with leasing requirements? It may be time to automate rental property management and focus more on how to grow your business. Today’s guest is Faizan Khan from LetHub, an AI leasing assistant service for property management businesses. LetHub utilizes AI to interact with renters, resolve their problems, and get them to the doors.  You’ll Learn... [03:40] Why LetHub? Opportunity to use AI to automate rental property management. [04:21] Myth: AI is a simple chatbot with multiple threads of what needs to be done. [05:00] Reality: AI goes beyond basics by understanding how the human brain works.  [05:26] Good vs. Genius AI: What’s the difference? Ability to learn and fix mistakes. [06:39] How to build an AI: Data scientist, algorithms, machine learning (ML), and supervised learning approach are needed to get started.  [07:29] LetHub’s Goal: Make experience for renters and landlords very easy.  [07:55] Property Management Problem: Difficult to get a rental apartment. Demand is high. Everyone is looking. AI can help. [09:05] Why LetHub uses AI? AI is not going to replace humans, but it’s a substitute. [09:19] Retention Rate: Property managers want to get the best tenants and keep them.  [10:25] LetHub’s AI: Replies to questions, books tours, provides CRM, handles emails. [12:15] LetHub’s Automated System: Requires less staff and time to generate results. [15:35] Pre-call Process: Top four questions focus on pets, moving date, student or employed, and tell me about yourself.  [17:25] API and Integrations: Connect to Buildium, Yardi, or other account. [20:00] LetHub Listings: All channels have Web link; connect email with Web platform.  Tweetables LetHub’s goal is to make the experience for renters and landlords very easy. Get people to the door. A good AI understands; a genius AI learns from its mistakes. AI won’t replace humans, but be a substitute for property managers to focus on growth. People like to chat. They don't want to call. They want instant replies.  Resources Faizan Khan’s Email LetHub Buildium Yardi Rent Manager RealPage DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowClub DoorGrowLive DoorGrow Website Score Quiz DoorGrow Cold Leads Calculator Transcript Jason: Welcome, DoorGrow Hackers, to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow Hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you’re crazy for doing it, you think they’re crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I’m your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let’s get into the show. Today's guest, I'm hanging out with Faizan Khan. Faizan, how are you today? Faizan: I'm good. How are you? Jason: Welcome to the DoorGrow Show. I'm doing great. Faizan Khan has one of the coolest names that we’ve ever had on the DoorGrow Show. We were joking in green room that it sounds like he’s a gangster rapper, just cool. Actually, you made that joke, because I’m a nerd I said it sounds like some badass [...]. Faizan: That’s right, yeah. It’s a different name. I haven’t heard this name myself before. Faizan, I'm really excited to have you. You have a service that we're going to be talking about today called LetHub. I know nothing about it. I'm excited to ask you a lot of questions. I get curious. Before we get into that, let's talk about you. Where this guy with this cool name came from, what your background is, and why people should listen. Faizan: As a child, I had been involved in entrepreneurship stuff and starting businesses small or big. I'm originally born and brought up in Dubai and Pakistan, considered like a mixture. Then I moved to the UK for a bit and after that I have been living in Canada. I've lived in five different countries throughout my life. I love traveling. Whenever I get a chance, I try to go to any other spot that I can go to, provided there's no Coronavirus over there. I'm really interested in real estate. I've had a bunch of start-ups before. I saw this opportunity of using AI to automate rental property management, so I started this company called LetHub. We are in our start-up phase but we're doing pretty well working with a few clients in Canada and States. We're trying to help people to automate all of their leasing requirements so they could sit down and focus more on how to grow. Right now, we're using a very sophisticated AI to interact with renters, resolve their problems, get them to the doors, and all that stuff. We can get deeper into that. That's my background of why I started and who I am. Jason: This sounds really interesting. A lot of people talk about AI and you hear that thrown around. I think the term can sometimes be used very loosely. Their version of an AI is they're creating a chatbot with multiple threads of what they need to be done. Faizan: That’s a very good question. I think a lot of people are sort of sold on the idea that AI is basically just like a pre-made thread of questions or a pre-scripted bot. But the truth here is that it understands something in a similar way as a human would, like the sentences or words I'm saying to you, your brain is breaking them down, understanding the context of that, processing it, and then replying. That's how our brain works. A good AI would understand that, even a better or a genius AI would really learn. If it creates a mistake, you can teach it what to do or it could teach itself what to do next. An example would be if someone says hey, do you allow pets, or hey, do you love furry friends? The AI would respond saying that, hey, we do. This is our pet policy. The renter would say, hey, is a small dog or cat okay? The third thing that the renter says is context. The context is do you allow any pets. Truly, I would not understand that, but an actual AI would understand the context. Jason: How does one go about starting to build an AI thing? Is there an AI system that you are leveraging to build? Is that how this works? Faizan: Yeah, that's a good question. You need a data scientist, number one, and you need to build some algorithms. You need to understand how machine learning works. It's a lot of techy-techy stuff to get data, to train the AI from an infant to a child to an adult. It's a simple process like any other human would be trained, how we grow up, we learn a few words, and then we're taught a few things. Pretty much like that. We use a supervised learning approach. It's a very sophisticated machine learning approach. Our goal is to make the experience for renters and landlords very easy. From our tests, we see that a lot of people ask the same questions. We cut that down, get people to the door rather than them giving you a call or sending you hundreds of emails. Jason: Let's talk about the problem first. What problem have you seen to the property managers you're dealing with that you thought maybe AI can help with this? Faizan: First and foremost in a very dense city where I was living in Vancouver, it's very hard to get a rental apartment. The demand is high. Everyone is looking. For us as renters, it was getting impossible. It would take two months to get something, that's how I started. I was like, why is this process not solved? If I send an email to a landlord, why am I not getting a reply? If I show up there are 20, 30 other people, I need to fill out a new rental application every time. If you go into 10 units or 10 different spots or places, it will be 10 different applications and that's all while you're working 9:00 to 5:00 as a professional. That's how I started. Why do we use AI? AI is not going to replace humans, but it's going to substitute a lot of their work that they do so they can focus on other stuff. A lot of the problems that property managers face are mostly around getting the best tenants and then keeping them. What's the retention rate? That's one of the bigger problems in multifamily and also single family.  I believe that you can cut that whole process down to finding someone from a listing, to getting them to the door, and to sign the lease. You can cut the time down by around 60 to 70%. If you're spending four to five hours a day, if you have a lot of vacancies or spending a lot of time just on replying to people with the same questions and it gets monotonous, you might lose focus. You're not that happy talking to people. That's where an automated system comes in.  People like to chat, especially millennials. They don't want to call. They want instant replies. Our product comes in there and solves this problem. It replies to everyone's questions and books you a tour right away into the leasing team's calendar. It provides a nice CRM for property managers just to have a look at who's coming when, weather details, do they qualify, all that good stuff. It also handles emails coming through. We see that 50 to 60% of property managers get emails than calls. Emails and texts are the king right now in terms of communicating. We deal with that as well. Jason: LetHub is handling emails? Faizan: Yes. Jason: It's dealing with text messaging too? Faizan: Yeah. Apart from calling, everything. Our AI assistant is dealing with all the online web chat. You can put it on your website or you can just post it on ours. It would reply to your emails. It would reply to the text. It will send reminders, all that good stuff. Honestly, there's a lot of companies that have already built this, but the automation piece is missing. There's always some manual work. We built it in a way where you can just click a button and start using it. There's no need for a three week training. I hate that. Jason: What are you seeing in terms of how this is impacting the clients that you brought on some of your initial prospects? What are you seeing? What are they noticing? What's different for now? Faizan: I don't want to jump the gun on this one, but I think it's helping people not to hire more which is scary. An example is one of our clients, they used to hire interns who would take calls, reply to emails, and then give the lead to a leasing agent who would go out there and show the unit, do a tour and then sign the lease and all that stuff. They stopped hiring an intern because now the system’s so automated, they’re getting good results. From a leasing agent’s perspective, they’re leasing faster. Those hundreds of emails they get, because it’s automated, they can filter through renters faster and get signed leases faster. The rate of listing to lease, the timeline has decreased. We've been measuring that very specifically. Minutely looking at is that the USP, is that actually the time spent by a leasing agent, but it's both. If someone spends on these activities, that goes down and the time to lease goes down as well. Jason: Let's go through the lifecycle then. I want to understand which pieces of the lifecycle of dealing with prospective tenants, showing the property, getting the lease, then on boarding, how much of this is LetHub connecting with and helping with? Faizan: Our goal is to get people to the door. Jason: It's getting people to the showings and getting showings scheduled and that sort of thing? Faizan: Yeah. It's answering our questions, dealing with increased, pre-qualifying people, and getting them to the door according to your schedule. Just get them to the door and then after that you could do the rental application or whatever you'd want to do, but also we get feedback as well. We're getting them to the door. If they don't like the property, we're getting some feedback as to why they didn't like the property or something like that. The goal is to get them to the door fastest with good pre-qualification, answering all their questions that they might have, and booking tours in a smart way. If you manage more than 400 units, 1000 units, or even 2000 in our case, then your time is money in that sense. There'll be no shows. There'll be people who are not that qualified. You'll always be dealing with not a higher quality of tenant like prospective renters. Jason: Give listeners an idea of the pre-call process, like some of the questions you might ask or what property management might have connected or built out in that piece. Faizan: I've built the algorithm myself with the help of my CTO. It's highly customizable. Obviously staying within human rights, there's some questions you cannot ask but it's customizable. You put your criteria and river our AI. We'll make sure she gets those answers from people. Jason: What are some of the questions that it's asking? You had mentioned earlier like maybe pets, maybe if they've had an eviction before. Faizan: You could ask anything from if you had an eviction, do you smoke, do you have any pets, how many people are moving in, why are you moving, are you a student. A lot of people ask this. We suggest people not to ask more than four questions, otherwise, that drives renters away. The top four I'm telling you is number one is pets, what's your moving date, when do you want to move in, are you a student or do you have a job, that sort of thing, and then the fourth is please tell me a bit about yourself. Generally, tell us whatever you would want. Though you can keep the criteria strict. If they don't fall under your criteria, they don't actually book a tour. We'd show them other properties. Jason: I understand the idea of decreasing the amount of time wasting type of calls where they're just asking details about the property. Will this be able to pull in some of the data on some of the properties through API or connect, because most property managers have all this in their property management software? If somebody's getting into your chat tool or the system and asking what's the square footage on this property or where is this located, how many of these things can it feel? Faizan: All we ask people to do is connect their Buildium or Yardi account and then go from there. We are constantly working on improving the integration and it will have enhanced integration with time. Right now if you as a property manager want to have a taste of LetHub, just let us know and we'll add a few of your properties. You can have an experience and then we can attach your integration and all that stuff. But we're not really partners with any of these companies, we just want to be clear. These are one off requests from property managers where they say this software, can you integrate so that we help them integrate. There's some softwares that do not have APIs. Jason: What manager has a full API, I guess property now has an API? Faizan: Yeah, probably Rent Manager. I was talking to the folks at Rent Manager as well. We're in moving talks with them soon. We'll meet with them at the conference as well. With Buildium, they don't really have an open API, same way as bigger companies like Yardi or RealPage. They have a paid API so they have this whole program. But we're happy to work with anyone. The key is to cut down the time it would take to on board anyone if they are using a very sophisticated software. We're happy to work with them and help them set that up while not changing anything. That's the important part. They keep doing what they're doing, we're just going to be working on the side getting them into leads. Jason: LetHub can operate as a chat tool on their website for people that are coming there. How does it help them via their listings that are out on the internet on various channels? Faizan: All the channels, email, text, and just having a web link, when you list your property, all you do is you just connect your email with our web platform. When you list your property just in the description and say, hey, click here to book a tour, or you can just redirect users to your own website. If you spent a lot of money on branding and making your website amazing, which a lot of people have, just redirect them to your own website and the river would just pop up and guide the user to book a tour or answer any questions. Jason: What questions are property managers asking you that are a little bit curious or wary or whatever? What are some of the most common questions they're asking about LetHub before they're willing to take it for a full spin and utilize it? Faizan: That's a good question. I think it depends on the size of the company. We were in talks with Aimco which has 10,000 units, bigger company, and multifamily. Their number one problem is integration so they would want integration with their current software which is totally fine. Make sense, bigger companies, got more complex. With the smaller property managers, I think their major concern is that will people be okay chatting with an AI versus a human. I want to be clear on this that nobody's replacing nobody over here. We're just helping people and we've got the tests to show you that that's the future. There's a lot of banks using this technology and you can order a pizza. I don't know how smart it is, but you can order a piece of pizza through an AI assistant. Jason: Anything else you want to let people know about LetHub before we wrap this up and how can people get in touch and maybe check this out? Faizan: Yeah, for sure. I think if you're a property manager who is looking to automate things so you don't have to run after renters and if you're looking to really use the latest and greatest tech, then please get in touch with us. Our website is lethub.co. You can email me at faizan@lethub.co, I'll be happy to do a demo myself or one of my team members would do it for you. Happy to chat about your problems and see if we can build a more customized solution for you. Yeah, that's about it. Keep growing I guess. Jason: Faizan Khan, really great having you on the show. I appreciate you hanging out with me today and we'll let you go. Faizan: Awesome. Thank you so much. Jason: Awesome to have him on. Check out LetHub and let us know inside the DoorGrowClub Facebook group what your experiences are if you decide to try them out, what you think. We'd be really curious to hear about your feedback. Go post an update inside the DoorGrowClub. Get to that on doorgrowclub.com. That's our community for this property management podcast. If you are wanting to figure out how to grow your business, you're struggling to grow, you're running into issues, reach out to our team. Check us out at doorgrow.com. Until next time everybody, to our mutual growth. Bye, everyone.

AMAC Podcast Show 31 featuring music from Jason How, These Anchored bones Band, Paperfriend, Unit 48 and The Gallerys

Do you like dealing with people or properties? Most real estate investors and property managers leave dealing with numbers to their accountants. Today, I am talking to Kyle Redding, Head of Growth and Sales for Proper. The property management tool uses artificial intelligence (AI) and machine learning (ML) to provide accounting and bookkeeping services. As a former CPA, Kyle has extensive knowledge of accounting, bookkeeping, and customer experience.  You’ll Learn... [05:12] Purpose of Proper: Partner with property management companies to set up accounting automation for back office. [06:10] Proper Position: Works with, doesn’t replace other property management tools. [10:00] Sophistication Fog: Property managers who need additional software and staff to optimize accounting automation. [12:15] Proper Process: Property managers handle invoices via dedicated email inbox, training, and automated processing. [17:45] Reminders: Rent is due! Rent is late! Proper’s frequency of property management invoices and statements. [21:10] Proper Competition: Hire bookkeepers/accountants with qualifications, education, and experience to alleviate single point-of-failure. [29:55] Proper Pricing: Affordable and sliding-fee scale based on price per unit. Tweetables Proper manages the books, you manage the properties. Proper’s Primary Focus: Accounting automation for more scalability and less stress. Proper’s accounting team is not your run-of-the-mill bookkeepers. Leverage Growth: Partner with Proper to take property management to the next level. Resources Kyle Redding’s Email Proper Ernst & Young QuickFee Buildium AppFolio Rent Manager Propertyware Yardi QuickBooks DGS 101: Take Confusion Out of Property Management with the Proper App  DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrowLive DoorGrow Website Score Quiz DoorGrow Cold Leads Calculator Transcript Jason: Welcome, DoorGrow Hackers, to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow Hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you’re crazy for doing it, you think they’re crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I’m your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let’s get into the show. Today’s guest is Kyle Redding of Proper. We’re going to be learning about what Proper is now. I think we’ve had you guys on the show before and it’s different. Kyle, welcome to the Door Grow Show, glad to have you. Let’s get into your background and maybe you could share with people your entrepreneurial journey, I think you have a cool story and I think it’d be fun to get into first. Kyle: Yeah, thanks, Jason. This is exciting, thanks for having us. Up at baseball in college really all I wanted to do fell into accounting. That sounds a little crazy, but Accounting 101 was in all those classes that I took and got 100% in. Don’t ask me how, but it just happened. While playing baseball I was like, “Okay, I think I can do this.” You travel a bit, you miss a bunch of classes but still, somehow worked it out. That revolved into an internship with Ernst & Young and then ultimately, a full-time job. I started up at EY in Orange County, California for about five years or so in the real estate group. A lot of my clients were public REITs or real estate developers. I ultimately then transferred out to Australia where I work at EY. Again with some real estate clients and some other industries. Ultimately, I got out of the public accounting game and was attracted to start-up life. I found this little start-up in Australia that was looking for an accountant that could sell, and I thought I’d give this a crack. We are a little finance online payment company in the professional services, all of our clients were accounting firms and law firms. We got really deep into the accounting industry and the CPA world and how they run their business. We grew that business and brought it to the US about four years ago. I took that company public in July last year. While that happened, I’ve always stayed in touch with one of my best friends, Matt, who is our COO and head of finance at Proper and Mark, an old college roommate from USC. We used to make surfboards and Matt and I worked at Ernst & Young together. At that time, Proper was really trying to solve a lot of different challenges for a property managing company, mainly on the maintenance side, which I think he comes and talks about before. Mark, our COO, was just religious about user research and first principles, light up thinking, breaking down problems, and finding the best solution for those problems; which is how we ended up coming back to Matt and I’s core background from the CPA world and real estate and addressing that [...] maintenance side of things, which is a nice to have and people want that to be better. The real true problem that we found was on the accounting side. A lot of property managers don’t necessarily get into this business because they like doing the accounting, or they do not do the accounting because (like you said) different from the real estate sales. It allows them to grab a hold of these owners and these properties, and develop other business opportunities but at the end of the month, the key deliverable that they all have is a financial package on that owner’s investment. That’s where we are today, helping a lot of property management companies solve that challenge and get better and focus on growth as opposed to running a call center and operations. Jason: Cool, so let’s get into how would you describe Proper now to those that are listening? What does Proper do? Kyle: Yep, sure. We partner with company management companies to help automate their back-office essentially, from everything, from AR to AP, to bank [...], to owner reporting. We use very high caliber accountants who have all got an accounting degree from big universities, that work in a big board accounting firm, that works at a Fortune 500 accounting firm. We power our team with machine learning, automation, and artificial intelligence to help make their job easier and allow our clients, the property managers, to scale a lot faster without having to worry about hiring more staff for training those people or maybe delaying, bringing on more portfolio because they need to do those things before they can get to that next step. We focus on accounting automation. Jason: Help me understand then how that works. Most property management entrepreneurs and business owners that are listening to the show right now are probably thinking, “Well, I’ve already got AppFolio, I’ve already got Rent Manager, I’ve already got Buildium. I’ve got a property management back office or accounting solution.” Is Proper something that you guys are positioning yourself to replace these tools or is this something where work in conjunction? How does this work? Kyle: Good question. We work alongside all of those tools. We’ve got a big mix, we don’t just work in AppFolio, we don’t just work in Propertyware. We’ve got clients that use Buildium, use Yardi, AppFolio, Propertyware, Rent Manager, you name it. We’ve even got clients who start out with QuickBooks and then as we help them grow, we transition into something more appropriate like a property management software. Right now, we’re not looking to replace any of those tools. We help optimize them for our clients. We help them set up a foundation to better utilize those and then manage those as well. A big part of what we do is helping them set up the appropriate level of internal controls. Are they set up for growth? Is that foundation there to really pile on top of? When we take on a new client, a lot of times it’s retooling the way they’ve set up AppFolio, Buildium, or Propertyware. It’s helping them get their [...] matrices set up. It’s all of those things to create efficiency, get them out of the weeds of the mundane repetitive low-level tasks that are [...] time set from their day, put that on to our plate, and get them back out to the field, so they can grow their business. Jason: It’s not just accounting because you’re helping with some of the operational aspects as well. Kyle: Correct. What we found is depending on a property manager and the company and the way they’re staffed, there’s a lot of leaving in and out of that accounting process. There’s a property manager who might spend 10%–15% of their day doing some accounting function that they probably shouldn’t be doing. The other side of that is you might be the owner or the broker-owner going, “I wish my PMs are out there losing these vacant apartments I’ve got, but they’re stuck doing this paperwork because there’s no one else to do it,” or it’s part of a process that they set up that hasn’t been revisited or fine-tuned. So, we help alleviate all those little bits of pieces there, then create more capacity for them to focus on what they want to focus on. Jason: Is this difficult to get going, get set up, and is there a certain level that a property management business owner has to be at before it would make sense to work with you guys? Kyle: Let me tackle that second question first which is do we have a minimum or a certain size. The short answer is no. We’ve got clients who have as little as six units. We’ve got clients who start with us at say 30 units and grow to 50–60 within three months. I’d probably say where it starts to make the most sense where they can move away from that one part-time admin or office staff handling some of these admin related tasks or accounting related tasks. Generally, to make it to that 30–40 unit mark and they’re starting to gain some momentum and get a little serious is where we can usually help them get to that next level. Where we see a clear difference is with somebody’s property managers who we call in the sophistication fog. They’ve half thought on their AppFolio or Yardi to do some things for them, but they still have some low-level staff that may or may not have an accounting background. They’re essentially taking off things on the checklist on a daily basis to help get that job done but there really isn’t an optimization to that process yet, it hasn’t really been optimized. We can come in and create efficiencies for them and help them, ultimately, have them repurpose those people to maybe a more interesting role or a more revenue-generating role, and then start to use some automation and fine-tune their property management software to do more for them. Jason: When it comes to automation and the technology side, do you guys have a homegrown software that’s running and doing the stuff? Are you using a certain software platform that you work within? Kyle: We continue to optimize and build other tools mainly around AP. Our goal is to attack one of these functions at a time. We found by measuring our accountants’ time that on average it takes about 5 minutes and 59 seconds to process an invoice. We built a proprietary tool that allows us to take that 5 minutes and 59 seconds down to (say) 30 seconds. From a scaling perspective, that property manager then takes on another 200 units. There isn’t the fear of being able to handle that, and we don’t need to staff another five people on their account to get that work done. We can continue getting through that work at a very high accuracy rate by training our model over and over with the different touches and windows that we see. Jason: How are the property managers feeding stuff into the system as if they’re feeding it into Proper? Kyle: Just like maybe a more specific property manager we may have set up where, let’s say 70%–80% of their invoices from their [...] vendors are coming in by email. They might have a dedicated inbox, ap@xyzpm.com or billing@xyzpm.com. If they don’t already have something like that set-up, then we’ll help create something like that. We’ll work with their vendors and their team to start training those invoices to come through to that inbox, at which point we can then adjust them and start processing them through our automation tools. Jason: What are some of the big questions that you’ve been getting? Everybody’s using their property management software, they probably have their systems and processes going to where they’re afraid to even mess with it a little bit, they feel comfortable. Then hearing you say, “Hey, we can help you make things faster. We can make it better, we can help you utilize things better, we work alongside,” and they’re probably thinking, “This is going to be really expensive, I don’t know if this makes sense. I’m going to have to do something different or something new.” What are some of the concerns and how are you addressing those? Maybe you can address them here so people listening, they’re popping up in their head. Kyle: Sure. I’ll probably revisit one of the questions you asked earlier which I didn’t address, which was what does it look like to get started or to start working with us? What does that process [...]? Our onboarding process, usually depending on the size of the PM, say, between two and four weeks to where we’ve fully taken over the accounting work off of their plate. When we start working with a new client we’ll basically do a deep dive walkthrough through every single one of their processes that they have. We’ll then document that process, so if they do continue to grow or they want these policies, procedures, and manuals for their own internal use, they’ll have those and we can use those to hire additional staff as they continue to grow. That’s probably a big first step, is understanding what they do, how they do it, what is being done, who’s doing what, et cetera. During that onboarding process, if we see a glaring opportunity for an improvement or an optimization, we’ll help them execute it right there on the spot. In the first instance, we’re going to match what they do so there’s the least amount of distraction to their day. Then over time, the next 30-60 days, we’ll tweak that some more and optimize it a little bit further to where they’ve got a smooth running engine behind [...] essentially. That’s a big question for a lot of prospects of clients that we take on is how do we get started, how does this work? That’s a very high level. Jason: Let me recap that. Some of these direct out with accounting, they’re frustrated with some of their internal processes connected to these, their day-to-day, and in 2–4 weeks you feel like Proper can significantly lighten their load and allow them to breathe. Kyle: Yeah. For example, just in the last month, 80% of our clients had increased their unit count on a month-to-month basis. Obviously, there are ebbs and flows, they might lose an owner (which drops the units), but generally speaking, once Proper gets in there, we alleviate and free up. We have one client, we freed up 35 hours a month of their time. This is a seasoned property manager who’s just, at the end of the day having to review work, or they were using another accounting partner. Jason: Then roughly how many doors did they have that they were freeing up that much time? Kyle: About 200, let’s say. Not a massive one but a decent-sized property managing company. Working with Proper, we generally saved in terms of card cost of headcount, up to 30% of their accounting staff wages over time. Maybe not on day one because if we’re not going to replace a team, that comes in phases, but over time, we generally see about a 30% cost reduction. We can fix this cost for them as opposed to them running a call center. They want to be making more money so let us fix this cost for you. Keep the quality at a very high level so that financial output and what you’re delivering to your owners. We also see a significant reduction in the number of questions or queries that our clients get from owners every single month because now our accountants are coming in and doing things may be the way they should’ve been done before or at a slightly better cadence or faster cadence which helps them keep their relationships. Jason: What are you seeing in all the property management businesses that you’re working with? How often are they sending out statements? Rent is sometimes trickling in. Rent [...] coming [...] a month. Sometimes it’s late, rent is really late. In these situations, what are you seeing as a frequency for invoices going out? Kyle: Definitely ranges depending on who it is that we’re taking on board but ultimately during that onboarding and stabilization period, generally it’s within 60 days or so. We have them all recording on the 10th of the following month and that’s a pretty standard cadence across the industry, but we make sure it’s consistent. There isn’t that, “We’d like to get it done by the 10th. Sometimes it’s the 15th or sometimes it’s the 20th.” We try and help standardize that across all of their owners. That might even come down to giving them some advice around, “Hey, you don’t have this clause in your owner agreement negotiated property, let’s help you fix that real quick.” That way you have some consistency. There are fewer exemptions and less, “Oh, this one requires that and this one requires that.” Again, building for scale, they can make those tweaks and continue to pile on top of what they’ve already built. Jason: One of the questions that pop up in my head hearing about this and owners giving some of their subs, they’re concerned about checks and balances. How am I going to make sure everything between my management software reconciles with my trust accounts, banking accounts, and everything is going in and out? How do I make sure everything is legit and stable? If I’m going to hand it off to somebody, I want to feel safe that these checks and balances are in place otherwise I’m going to have to check everything. Isn’t that true? Kyle: Yeah. A big way that we approach that is through those onboarding walkthroughs. When we do a deep dive into each process, whether it’s collecting rent or AP, or with the owner recording if there are only [...] there, we go into extreme detail, we document and create a manual for that process. Then there is a consistent agreed way of doing it, whether we try to make recommendations to improve it, or we say, “Hey, you guys have got some great process here.” We just formalize it in that way there’s a clear line of, “This is how it’s going to work.” Then we use tools to keep people accountable. Set reminders for (say) someone on the PM side, they haven’t approved an invoice for us yet, we need to garnish their approval. We use tools that allow us to keep those people accountable, so we can keep them [...]. Jason: Short callers and text messages? Kyle: We communicate daily pretty much with all of our clients from Google Hangouts, workflow collaboration tools, things like that, so there’s clear visibility. Jason: What are some of the other frequently asked questions that people give you when they’re going through the sales prospects sort of process with you? Kyle: What are our qualifications, what makes us qualified to do this sort of thing. As I said, Matt and I—Matt is our head of operations—we’re both CPAs with extensive real estate experience at Ernst & Young. All of our accounting team—I think I mentioned this before—got an accounting degree from college, they’ve worked at a Fortune 500 company, or [...] accounting firms. Our staff is not your run-of-the-mill bookkeepers. They’re highly trained, they’ve got extensive experience, we require our team to do at least 10 hours of CP in real estate accounting every year, that generally gives them some confidence. Then we’ve got some clients out of their really sticky situation with back books and unreconciled accounts for a long period of time and if we can come in and clean that up in a very short amount of time. We have one client who had nine months of unreconciled accounts, and we helped clean that up in about 3½ weeks. When we can show our clients that we can do this for them and help them get to a part where they can sell all their managing company and their portfolio, that speaks volumes for the rest of the people that we talk to. Jason: Let’s throw stones at some of the competition. Kyle: Sure. Jason: One of the main competitors is going to be the property management that’s like, “I’m just going to go higher because the alternative will be I’m going to go higher than somebody. She’ll help me with my bookkeeping or my accounting, or data entry with checks and invoices and all this kind of stuff.” They bring in somebody, they’re probably one of the lowest-paying members of their team, and they’re trying to teach them how they do it and it gets really messy. I don’t know if you want to say anything else, maybe I already threw stones at it. Kyle: No, that’s good. It’s definitely a challenge that we come across, where they’re weighing up, “Do we do this in-house or do we bring on a partner like you guys?” What we often see or hear from people who maybe have gone down that road and then maybe come back to someone like Proper is that it's a single point of failure. It’s one person who’s a real accountant. They go on vacation, things get missed or they get tired if they’re growing quickly, and they’re not organized. All of those things are risks that a team like Proper doesn’t let happen because we have more than one person while working on your portfolio. We could do that and your pricing is still fixed. That’s one of the ways that we help alleviate those sorts of risks from that setup but that might be the right set up for some people. Jason: Yeah, I’m sure every property manager that’s brought anybody else in to touch anything financial in their business has noticed some really ugly mistakes that they’re having to clean up. They’re having to reissue their statements, they’re having to undo or apologize for a notice to quit or something that went out to the tenant that shouldn’t have. Let’s compare this now to just going and getting an accountant, like somebody maybe, “I’m going to go hire a local accountant. They know my area, they’ll get to know my business. Steve down the street, this guy, CPA.” Let’s throw stones at that now. Kyle: The biggest downside to that scenario is that they’re often doing things in arrears. The accountant isn’t there, the CPA isn’t there every day to do and process invoices or reconcile the bank account. They usually come in the first week of the next month to catch up on everything. The client isn’t super organized, they’re going to have to be digging through things, distracting their clients, asking them questions about stuff that happened three or four weeks ago. Which can be a big challenge. You might be able to navigate through that and create some processes, but that can be burdensome. Even more at a time sucks especially if people on the go are not doing things the way they should be along the way. With our team, we’re reconciling bank accounts on a daily basis as transactions go through. We’re processing invoices instantaneously as they come through. There are benefits of us essentially being an extension of your team, just maybe not sitting in your office, but having the same people every day in and out doing that work for you as you go. The other thing about the traditional CPA firm is they’d rather do the higher margin advisory work, tax consulting. It’s expensive for them to do the low-level bookkeeping. They’ll do it for a relationship, but they don’t necessarily like doing it. We actually get a lot of referrals from CPA firms who have clients who need property accounting done at an affordable price. Jason: You go get an accountant, they’re looking at things after the fact, they’re pointing out things you need to clean up, they’re disrupting your day. You’re having to communicate with them, you’re trying to find the problem they’re pointing out rather than these things being taken care of on a day-to-day basis. If you guys fix something that’s messed up within a day or even two, it’s dealt with. Thirty days later, some stuff to undo your mess. Kyle: Correct. Jason: What are some other alternatives to going without Proper? I guess doing it themselves. Kyle: Yeah, doing it themselves but again you’re constantly fighting that growth battle. How do I get to the next stage, whether it’s right? We all look for leverage to put us into that next zone. We get a lot of clients coming to us who want to grow. They get to the point of, “I can’t do anymore. I need a partner to get to the next stage.” We get people who’ve been burned by other accounting partners who maybe just don’t have the same quality control so now they’re looking for a new partner that isn’t going to mess things up that they don’t have to keep an eye on. I think because we focus exclusively on property managing companies, we’re not doing restaurants, we’re not doing eCommerce businesses. We’re 100% real estate accounting. That gives a bit of confidence in partnering with someone like us. Jason: Got it. If you’re working with some sort of accounting bookkeeping firm, you’re having to force the system, and you’re having to explain to them what you do and that rent’s going to come in, and certain amounts are going to be taken out, and all of those kinds of mess, and they just don’t get it. You’re having to use every time, like change the account rep that’s working with you this company has turned over. That can be a mess, you can guess it. Any other frequently asked questions that people come in to look at your firm would maybe want to hear on this podcast? Kyle: How quickly we can get started with people or whether we can help them retool their software stack. Another one we get quite a bit and gotten quite a bit recently is “Can you handle our overflow accounting?” As in they might already have a full accounting team with that capacity that they’re hungry to grow, and they want to buy four portfolios in the next quarter 400–500 units each. “Can we engage you guys to help do the mapping and the chart of accounts to our chart of accounts and the monthly accounting into a ready to transition them from whatever software they are on now to ours?” We handle a bit of our work as well or even maybe some ad hoc research of which one would outgrow this solution, what else should we look to do. We can scope in that sort of work and continue to partner with them on their growth. Jason: Okay, pricing. If we can really give any numbers here but if you can help people understand how do you price this out, how affordable this is, how does this work? Kyle: Great question. Our pricing scale is part of our client’s scale. As in the price per unit drops, the number of units continues to rise. We might start out someone with $12.99 per unit, we might have 100 units. Then if they get up to 2000 plus, we could get as low as $6.99 per unit. We calculate on a monthly basis and as the unit count fluctuates we adjust the pricing, so it’s a fixed note cost for them each month based on their unit count. If we don’t have to work on 100 units that they lost last month then cool, their fees are going to reflect that. So, between $12.99 a unit and $6.99 per unit per month for a full suite service. Jason: Got it. Well no matter how you work the numbers, doing that here at my screen, it’s going to be a lot cheaper than even a part-time employee generally would be. That’s handling the stuff, that’s a single weak link in the chain, that can be a bottleneck, that might get sick, go on vacation, or whatever, or yourself holding the entire company back because maybe this is not your area of genius or your life’s purpose to handle all this stuff. Kyle: Yup, exactly. We don’t necessarily provide à la carte services or our different functions of the accounting process other than accounts payable. We know that AP typically takes up about 60% of the time across the entire accounting function. We can get scale on AP pretty quickly especially with automation. If we’ve got someone who’s looking to maybe test us out, try before they buy sort of thing, we might take on just AP for them or maybe 60% of their workload at an appropriate price point for them to handle just AP, then move that into taking on the rest of their accounting services. Otherwise, we get people who just say, “We need this, let’s get started right now.” We’ll work with their team, get up to speed in a very short period of time, and then take everything off their plate. Jason: It’s just crazy to imagine that some of the property managers are going to listen to this. You’re dealing with some of the stuff, you’re running into headaches, you’re frustrated, this could be dealt with based on what Kyle’s saying here in like a month. It could be literally off your plate and your life could be infinitely easier. Kyle: That’s very true. We do start taking stuff off their plate in the first week or two but that first 2–4 weeks we like to really just make sure we’ve got a good understanding of what’s going on so that mistakes don’t happen, so that by week 4, we’re fully optimizing, we’re ready to roll. Jason: Cool. Well, I’ve gotten too deep with you and some of the members of your team and I know you guys are sharp. This sounds even better than what I thought we were going to be talking about today, so it sounds pretty exciting. I’m sure you’ll get some people reaching out that are running into some difficulties [...] off the top of my head that has been complaining about some of the stuff so it should be interesting to see the attraction you get on this episode. Kyle: The main thing, Jason, that we wanted to do is really give our clients their time back and give them the confidence and reliance on this financial that every month they got to deliver to their owners without having to worry, want it to be consistent, and want it to be high quality. We want them to not have to fear about getting right or spending time checking things. We want to be their partner in growth. We look for clients who want to grow and are like-minded with us to really help transform their business. Jason: I think those types of clients are my type of clients. These are the people that are focused on growth, so awesome. This is the Door Grow Show so hopefully, the people listening are that type of people. How do people get in touch with Proper? How do they get started? What’s the next step for those who might be listening that might be interested? Kyle: My email is kyle@proper.ai. You can check out our site proper.ai. Shoot us a note. We’d love to do a free consultation for you, show you a little bit about how we work. We’re happy to be in touch with any of our customers as well if you want to reference check us. Please reach out, and we’d love to work with anyone who’s interested. Jason: Awesome. Kyle, thanks for being on the DoorGrow Show. Kyle: Thanks for having us, Jason. I appreciate it. Jason: You just listened to the DoorGrow Show. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet, in the DoorGrow Club. Join your fellow DoorGrow Hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead, content, social, direct mail, and they still struggle to grow. At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge in getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today’s episode on our blog at doorgrow.com. To get notified of future events and news, subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow hacking your business and your life.

Acting is a fascinating industry and many dreamed to be an actor as a kid. So did I. Later in life, most of us give up on that dream for many different reasons. Then life goes on and it was just one of those childhood dreams to be an actor. But the beauty about the world that we are living in, is that we are never too old for anything anymore. If you are fascinated by acting and want to get access to the industry, this is possible. No matter if you are 20, 30, 40 or even older. One great example for this is Jason Lazarus. Jason was always fascinated by acting but pursued another path in his professional life. When he reached a point where he really wanted to live his passion and go after his dreams, he re-discovered his fascination for the world of acting. He started the Inner City Actor's podcast, where he interviews actors, directors and other professionals from this industry. His guests are inspiring, hungry and determined artists, mainly from London City. Now Jason is part of this world and adds value, builds up a network and gets inspiration from insiders constantly. Listen to this interview if you have a passion for the world of acting or if you find out how to enter any industry you want. Some of the questions I ask Jason: - How do actors become actors? Do you see certain patterns in their biographies or are there several different paths? (05:36) - How are actors usually getting their jobs? (07:23) - Do you interview directors, too (13:36) - Can you start being an actor at an older age? (16:46) - How are actors usually being paid? (19:20) - Why are you doing the Inner City Actor's Podcast? (22:36) - What did you learn from your guests so far? (29:03) - If someone who is listening wants to get into acting, what is your recommendation? (38:29) Play the leading role in your life, join The Business Artist Club here: https://www.businessartist.club More about Jason Lazarus: E-Mail: innercitypodcast@gmail.com Instagram: @jasonlazarus31 and @innercityactorspodcast Inner City Actor's Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-inner-city-actors-podcast/id1482851131

Jason How  of the world famous Rotosound strings What a blast this was with lots of stories of great names of music in Rotosound' s extraordinary life Jason entertained me with stories of Noel Redding cooking breakfast and how John Entwistle got the bass strings into the US and the rotohounds make an appearance at the ends Find out more about Rotosound and Jason How's music which is very good, they remind me of XTC, cool stuff www.rotosound.com www.jasonhow.com www.sodaprism.com also on Facebook The jam nights - Kentish Rifleman Dunks Green Kent Facebook 'Kentish Rifleman Jams

Do you work because you want to or have to? Have you ever considered investing in land to generate enough passive income that exceeds your fixed expenses? Today, I am talking to Mark Podolsky of Frontier Equity Properties. Mark’s passion is investing in land, creating wealth efficiently, and helping others develop their inner geeky entrepreneurial spirit. He’s known as, “The Land Geek,” for buying and selling thousands of raw and undeveloped land deals. Also, he’s the author of Dirt Rich, a guide to building a passive income model in land investing. You’ll Learn... [02:40] Beat Friday Blues: How and why Mark became a land investor.  [05:40] Breaking Down Passive Income Model: No emotional attachment to land and distressed financially.  [07:26] Property Checklist: Due diligence to confirm ownership, back taxes, no title breaks, and no liens.  [08:25] Buy the property free and clear, and sell it in 30 days or less.  [08:40] Neighbors: Built-in best buyers to protect privacy, views, and expand holdings. [09:09] Other Options: Sites with specialized buyers and sellers of raw and undeveloped land (i.e., Craigslist, Facebook, Land Flip, Land Moto).  [10:00] No renters, rehabs, renovations, and rodents; exempt from erroneous real estate legislation.  [10:48] Price Point of Fixed Expenses: Typically, $10,000 a month in passive income.  [12:05] Operating Entity: Spend a few hours a day on land investing business, and automated software/virtual assistants do the rest.  [14:35] How to get started? Everything is hard in the beginning. Embrace the suck. [16:00] What Mark loves about land investing? No physical inventory, no competition, inefficient market, one-time sale, and passive income.  Tweetables Core Business Philosophy: Happy customers guaranteed. Raw land is the best passive income. There’s nothing not to love about land investing for passive income.  True Wealth: Work where you want, when you want, and with whom you want. Resources The Land Geek Dirt Rich by Mark Podolsky Frontier Equity Properties The Land Geek Podcast Warren Buffett’s Margin of Safety Land Moto Land Flip Dodd-Frank Financial Regulatory Reform Bill Real Estate Settlement Procedures Act (RESPA) S.A.F.E. Act FortuneBuilders Robert Kiyosaki Zig Ziglar GeekPay DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrowLive DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrow Website Score Quiz Transcript Jason: Welcome, DoorGrow Hackers, to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business, and life, and you’re open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow Hacker. DoorGrow hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you’re crazy for doing it, you think they’re crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate, high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I’m your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let’s get into the show. Today, I am hanging out with Mark Podolsky. Mark, welcome to the show. I’m going to read your bio here because we want to qualify you and then we’ll let you brag a little bit because you got to do a little bit of starting out here. Today’s topic (for those who are just tuning in) is land investing for passive income. We’re going to learn how to use land investing to create a passive income stream. Mark J. Podolsky (AKA The Land Geek), is widely considered the country’s most trusted and foremost authority on buying and selling raw, undeveloped land within the United States for almost two decades. Mark has been actively investing in real estate and raw land and has completed over 5000 unique transactions. Mark’s company, Frontier Equity Properties, LLC, is an A+ rated Better Business Bureau real estate company. Mark has achieved this level of success largely due to his core business philosophy, happy customers guaranteed. Mark is the host of one of the top-rated podcasts in the Investing Category on iTunes, aptly titled The Best Passive Income Model and The Art of Passive Income. He is also the host of The Land Geek podcast: Work Smart. Earn More. Learn How. Mark, there you go. Give us a little bit of background on you and how you got into this land investing. Mark: Let’s rewind to 2000 and imagine me fighting traffic, 45 minutes in the car there and back, micromanaged, stressed out at an investment banking job, working with private equity groups specializing in mergers and acquisitions. Jason, it got so bad for me that I wouldn’t get the Sunday blues anticipating Monday coming around. I’d get the Friday blues anticipating the weekend going by really fast and heading back to work on Monday. My firm hired this guy and he’s telling me that as a side hustle, he’s going to tax deed auctions, he’s buying up raw land pennies on the dollar, he’s flipping them online, and he’s making a 300% return on his investment. Jason, I’m looking at companies all day long and a great company has 15% EBITDA margins or free cash flow. Great company. Average company is 10%. I’m looking at companies all day long, less than 10%. Of course, I’ll believe him. We go to New Mexico. I do exactly what he tells me to do. I’ve got $3000 saved up for car repairs so I can only buy $3000 worth of land. I buy 10 half-acre parcels, an average price of $300 each. I put them up all online and they all sell 30 days later from an average price of $1200 each. It worked. 300%. I took all that money, I went to another auction in Arizona (which is where I live) and again, it’s 2000. There’s no one in the room, there’s no competition, I’m buying up lots, I’m buying up acres for nothing. Over the next six months, I sold all that property and I made over $90,000 cash. I go to my wife, and she’s pregnant. I said, “Honey, I’m going to quit my job. I’m going to become a full-time land investor.” She says, “Absolutely not.” So I worked land investing part-time and it took 18 months for the land investing income to exceed the investment banking income and then, I quit. I’ve been doing it full-time ever since. Jason: It’s so easy, anybody can do it? Mark: Yeah, I wish. I wish it was so easy. It’s a simple model but anything worth doing in life is not easy. What I could do is I could walk you through the model and then, odds are you’ll just stop the podcast and quit doing what you’re doing and start land investing with me, but that’s okay. That happens a lot. You want me to walk you through it? Jason: Yeah. Mark: Jason, where do you live? Jason: I’m in Santa Clarita, California. Mark: Okay. Let’s imagine that you own 10 acres of land in Texas. I go to the county treasurer and I get a list of people that owe back taxes. Sure enough, there’s Jason Hull in Santa Clarita, California, $200 in back taxes on this 10-acre parcel. Jason, you’re advertising two things to me. Number one, you have no emotional attachment to that raw land. You’re in California. The property is located in Texas. Number two, you’re distressed financially in some way. Because when we don’t pay for things, we don’t value them in the same way. And you haven’t paid your property taxes. As a result, the county treasure keeps sending you notices saying that, “Jason, if you don’t pay your taxes, you’re eventually going to lose your 10 acres to a tax deed or tax lien investor. What I will do is I would look at the comparable sales on that 10-acre parcel. I’m going to take the lowest CUP and I’m going to divide by four. That’s going to get me what Warren Buffett calls a 300% margin of safety. I’m going to actually send you an offer of $2500 on that 10-acre parcel assuming that the lowest CUP is $10,000. I send you an offer for $2500. Now, you accept it because for you, $2500 is better than nothing and you haven’t gone out to look at the property. You just don’t care about it anymore. In reality, 3%-5% of people accept my “top dollar offer.” Now that you’ve accepted the offer, I’ve got to go through due diligence or in-depth research. Number one, I got to confirm you still own the property. Number two, I have to confirm the back taxes are only $200. Number three, I have to make sure there have been no breaks in the chain of title. Number four, I have to make sure there are no liens or encumbrances. I have this whole property checklist and it goes on and on and on. If it’s a property deal that’s worth less than $5000, I’ll actually close it directly with my team in the Philippines. We’re hooked up to an American title company. I pay $11 for due diligence. They’ll give me a whole property report. I’ll get the GIS maps, the plat maps, aerial maps. If it’s an area I don’t know, I’ll have somebody go out there, stamp on the property for me, take a video and shoot photos throughout the property checklist. What are the neighbors doing out there, what’s the road like, all these things. Everything checks out and now, I buy the property from you for $2500. You get $2300 of it, $200 goes to the treasurer, and now I have that property free and clear. I’m going to sell this property 30 days or less. The reason I’m going to do this is I have a built-in best buyer. Do you know who it is? Jason: No. Mark: The neighbors. I’m going to sell that to the neighbour saying, “Hey, here’s your opportunity. Protect your privacy, protect your views, expand your holdings, know your neighbour.” Oftentimes, the neighbors will buy it. If they pass, I’ll go to my buyers list. If my buyers list passes, I’ll go to a little website you might not have heard of called Craigslist (10th most traffic website in the United States). I’ll go to an even smaller one. It’s called Facebook buy-and-sell group and marketplace. And then, I’ll go to these platforms that specialize in buying and selling raw land, landmodo.com, landandfarm.com, landsofamerica.com, landflip.com. It goes on and on. Now, the way I’m going to sell it is I’m going to make it irresistible. I’m going to ask for a $2500 down payment. I get my money out on the down, within (let’s say) six months of that. I’m going to get a car payment, let’s say $449 a month, 9% interest over the next 84 months. Essentially, I’ve got a one-time sale, I have passive income of $449 a month, 9% interest over the next 84 months, no renters, no rehabs, no renovations, no rodents. And because I’m not dealing with a tenant, I’m exempt from Dodd-Frank, RESPA, and the SAFE act (this onerous real estate legislation). The game that we play is can we create enough of this land notes where our passive income exceeds our fixed expenses and then we’re working because we want to, not because we have to. The beautiful part about all of this is 90% of it is automated with software virtual assistants. It’s great. Jason: What is the price point of fixed expenses typically? Mark: For most people, after you earn about $10,000 a month in passive income (that’s $120,000 a year), you’re in pretty good shape. Now, we have some clients who are doctors and lawyers. I have a client. He’s been working with us for 10 months. He’s at $15,000 a month passive and he just went from 5 days a week at his law firm to 2 days a week and he’s spending the rest of his time with his dad who needs help working with him and the other two days doing what he wants to do. We have so many clients that once they hit that point, they retire their spouse. They quit their job. They do what they really want to do in life because the whole idea of this is that we can always make more money but we can’t get more time. For me, true wealth means you wake up and you don’t have to be anywhere. You work where you want, when you want, and with whom you want. That’s really the goal of doing all this. Jason: Love that. What else do people typically ask you about this? When you say it, it sounds really easy. It sounds like something that maybe anybody can do, but it’s like starting a part-time job if you start getting into this. Mark: It is. It is an operating entity. We ask our clients to spend about an hour or two a day doing this. That will move the needle because with our virtual assistants and our software, it’s pretty automated. We actually have automation software for marketing. We can automate our craigslist and our Facebook postings with a posting automator. The only two things that (as CEO of your land investing business) you, Jason, actually have to do, is county research because if you get that screwed up, that whole thing falls off the rails, so you have to pick a good county. From there, you’re going to make sure that you get your pricing right, so you might want to work with a VA, train them, and show them, “Hey, look. Here’s our lowest comps dividing by four. We need a response rate of 3%-5%. If it’s under 3%, our offer is too low. If it’s over 5%, let’s get nervous. Why are they selling us their property? We might have to renegotiate.” We have our metrics in there.  As far as the rest of the process, you can get virtual assistants to do our due diligence. You can get an intake manager that can actually talk to your sellers (because that’s a big time-suck as well). From there, you can close. We like to use Simplifile accountings, so that we can record our deeds online, so I don’t have to go and do a lot of whole paperwork that way. Once we own it, again, we have an inexpensive virtual assistant getting us through GIS, all the neighbors information, uploading that to our software, sending out our neighbor letters. There’s an API with lob.com, which does our mailings. On the backend of it, we use a software called GeekPay.io that is a set-it-and-forget-it system on collecting our money. We get our down payment via credit card and then we get our monthly payments via ACH. It does all the amortization. It does all the calculations. It charges fees but it does it through notifications. If that ACH bounces, it will charge the credit card on file. We went from an 8% default rate to a 4% default rate. I personally worked two hours a week in Frontier Properties, doing the kind of volume that we do. Jason: Sounds great. That’s pretty incredible. How hard is it for somebody to get started with this that’s new? Mark: It’s like anything in life. Everything is hard in the beginning. You know what’s really hard, Jason? Learning to read. We don’t remember it. We forgot how hard that was in the very beginning but you had a good teacher, they broke it down for you step-by-step, and you are with other people. It was just a thing, like everyone can do this and you’re just expected to do it. It’s the same kind of thing. What happens is we’re so ingrained after all these years of schooling that you have to achieve what you achieve, to go back and embrace beginner’s mind and embrace the suck. It’s hard. If you can do that, if you can be comfortable being uncomfortable and you have some grit, you can be successful in anything in life, whether it’s my land investing niche or growing your doors. It doesn’t matter. Nothing worth doing is easy. Jason: It sure is nothing worth doing is easy. The challenge is if somebody is going to choose into doing this, choose into doing property management, or choose into doing any business, they have to fall in love with this. They have to get excited about this. Help the listeners understand what do you love about doing this? Your clients that get involved in this, what do they love about it that’s different from other entrepreneurial ventures that they get into? Mark: The main reason that people like this model is number one, there’s no physical inventory. Number two, there’s little to no competition. If you go on HGTV or the DIY Network, you’re not going to ever see me on Flip This Land. The before pictures is raw land, the after pictures is raw land. It’s not going to be much fun to watch me in front of a computer. If you go to [...] meeting and there are 100 people in that room, 99 of them are house flippers, landlords, or wholesalers. You and I are the only land guys. Number three, you have an inefficient market. I’ve got a hedge fund manager that loves this business because he’s like, “Mark, there are very few inefficient markets left out there. Nobody knows the value of raw land.” Now, that can be very frustrating in the beginning, but it’s also very exciting once you get your arms around it.  No physical inventory, no competition, inefficient, and then you have the fact that it’s a one-time sale and then the passive income versus let’s say I flip a house. I make $20,000 on a flip. I have a new problem. What do I do with my $20,000? I can’t put it in the bank. It’s not going to earn anything. I have to keep redeploying that capital. Once we get to let’s say $10,000 a month of passive income, what our net worth? How long would it take you to have an investment of $120,000 a year at say 2% interest in the bank? That’s over $3 million you and I would have to save. How long, Jason, would it take for you to save $3 million? How long would it take anybody to save $3 million? Jason: I probably would never do it. Mark: Yeah. 12-36 months, you can have that kind of cash flow and then your bankers are really happy with you because your net worth is over $3 million. The fact that—I’m not proud of it—I can’t even screw in a light bulb. I tried to flip a house once. I am not interested in physical things so the subs come out there. I meet the subs. They don’t show up. Just the capital outlay, I started with $3000. My buddy, [...], started at $800. You’re not going to ever get knocked out of the game in this niche. The dollars are just too small. If you go into multifamily housing, you do one bad deal and you’re done for 10 years. You’re BK or you’re just a pariah in the investment community because you lost all your investors money. This is not like that at all. You have an easy entry point, you have no physical inventory, you have no competition. You have a one-time sale on passive income. You have an inefficient market. There’s nothing not to like about it. I think what’s interesting is if you go to a party and you tell people you’re a land investor, they’ll yawn. It’s not sexy. Definitely not sexy. Maybe you lie and say you’re in multifamily housing. Jason: I don’t know if that’s super sexy sometimes either, but yeah. Mark: I mean it depends who you’re talking to. Jason: How do people get started in this? It sounds interesting. My interest is piqued. I’m sure some people listening are interested. How do they get started with this because I’m sure there’s a fairly steep learning curve? There’s got to be a reason why everybody isn’t doing it. How saturated is this? Mark: It’s not saturated at all because again, it’s just not sexy. It’s not conventional. The marketing budgets of the people that are in the house flipping world like Robert Kiyosaki or FortuneBuilders, that’s really where people thought to. Land investing, you have a mental hurdle for people where they think, “Well, I’ve never bought land.” We all know everyone needs a place to live. Nobody needs raw land. You don’t wake up today and say, “Boy, I really got to own 10 acres today.” Jason: That land that nobody is using and nobody seems to want. That land. Mark: Right. It’s a marketing business. You have to interrupt somebody’s day, pique their interest, and make it irresistible. I’ll tell you, after over 5200 deals, I’ve never been stuck with a piece of land. You buy any asset, 25–30 cents on the dollar, there’s someone else on the other end of that deal. Whether it be a piece of land, a car, a trinket, it doesn’t matter. The market is the market. So to get started, I would say you’ve got to learn from somebody who’s done in. For example, let’s say you and I are going to go to Mount Everest together. We’re going to climb this big mountain. Jason: We’re not just going to wing it. Mark: Yeah. You’re going to someone who’s done it a million times and they can tell you the best routes quickly, efficiently, and safely to do it. That’s what you want to do. You can start with that. In fact, for the listeners, I would say that I have a $97 course that I’d love to offer them for free. If they just go to thelandgeek.com/launchkit, they can go ahead and get that course for free. Start there and then see if they like it or not. Jason: Their time investment is 1-2 hours a day? Mark: If that, yeah. It depends if they’re using tools or not. It also depends if they have a scarcity mentality or abundance mentality. A lot of people, when they start doing this, they think they can penny-pinch their way to wealth. They don’t want to use the tools that are out there.  Jason: “No, I’ll do it myself. I’ll watch 120 Youtube videos and figure out how to do it myself.” Mark: Yeah, and you can do that. But again, my whole philosophy is that I can always make more money. I can’t get more time. So, anything that’ll save you time, I’ll invest in. Jason: I say something very similar to my clients. That makes sense. Anything else anybody should know before we wrap this up and how can they get in touch with you? Mark: If you have that mindset that Zig Ziglar says, “If you'll do for the next 3–5 years what other people won't do, you’ll be able to do for the rest of your life what other people can’t do.” You’ve got to get your reps in and you have to embrace the suck. Again, nothing worth doing in life is easy. It might be a simple model, but it’s not easy. You have to take action at some point  Again, the best way to get a hold of me is thelandgeek.com. I’ve got an audio book. I’ve got a book on Amazon called Dirt Rich if you want to just read about it and hear my story as well. It got really good reviews. People seem to like it. It’s not because I’m such a good writer. It’s just that they like it. Jason: Nice. Perfect. Look for the book, Dirt Rich, or check out thelandgeek.com. Mark, this is interesting. I think it’s a new idea that people certainly haven’t heard of this before on the DoorGrow Show. I appreciate you coming on and hanging out here with me. Mark: Jason, thank you so much. Again, I apologize if you’re just going to quit your business and go [...] with me. Jason: I love what I do so. Mark: See? There you go. You can do both. Jason: Both. All right. Maybe I’ll get a few people from this show that are wanting to do both. There you go. Mark, thanks again for coming on the show. We’ll let you go. Mark: Thanks, Jason. I appreciate it. Jason: If you are a property management entrepreneur and you enjoy the show, be sure to like and subscribe. If you’re watching this on Youtube or on Facebook, be sure to share it if you would. We would appreciate that. If you’re in some property management groups, we’d love to see your comments. And if you’re on iTunes, give us a review. We would really love to get that feedback. We’re putting out this content for free. We would love a little reciprocity, people. That would be really sweet of you. I would appreciate it greatly. It helps us get the word out and make a difference in this industry.  If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to grow your business, add doors, you’re struggling, you’re feeling that there’s a scarcity in the industry, there’s no scarcity in property management right now. 70% are self-managing. There’s plenty of opportunity. Reach out, talk to us, and let us help you see how you can align your business towards more warm leads and stop spending so much time trying to go with cold leads, time keepers, and time wasters. The people that are at the very end of the sales cycle are the coldest, crappiest, most price-sensitive. Those are the people searching online. They’re the leftovers that fall off the word-of-mouth table. Come sit at the table with us. We’re DoorGrow. We’ll talk to you soon. Check us out at doorgrow.com. Bye everyone. Until next time, to our mutual growth.

00;00;14;09 [Jason]: Jason Watson with WCG Incorporated here in ColoradoSprings, we're a local tax and accounting firm. Joined by RachaelWeber and Joseph Bassett, both tax professionals for us. We'realso hosted by Axe and the Oak here in Colorado Springs, they'vebeen gracious enough to open up early for us, part of our Bourbonand Business00;00;31;29 series, podcasts and videos. We just got done wrapping up a videoand podcast on some of the bigger deductions that we see, cars,that's always a big one for most small00;00;42;29 business owners, meals and travel. We're going to talk this time or,this time around about home office and then all the other likegoofier ones, if you will.00;00;54;25 So, you know, tell me the rules, Rachael, on the home officededuction.00;01;00;04 [Rachael]: It's got to be used regularly and exclusively00;01;03;27 [Jason]: Okay.00;01;04;26 [Rachael]: In your home.00;01;05;13 [Jason]: Okay, regular and exclusive and have a business.00;01;09;01 [Rachael]: A Business purpose.00;01;09;14 [Jason]: That's probably true for every deduction on a plan, right?00;01;12;18 [Rachael]: Yeah.00;01;12;27 [Jason]: For a business deduction to be a legitimate businessdeduction it has to have a business purpose. So, use regularly andexclusively. So, can you break those words down for me? What's"regular" mean?00;01;23;15 [Rachael]: "Regular" means you would be checking your emails,invoicing your customers, doing administrative work. Okay. Meetingwith clients, holding your inventory. It could mean a whole host of00;01;37;27 [Jason]: Right.00;01;38;03 [Rachael]: of things. You're just doing that on a regular basis, notonce a month00;01;42;26 [Jason]: Right.00;01;43;14 [Rachael]: but on a regular basis.00;01;44;21 [Jason]: Yeah. And one of the words that the IRS will also use too is"continuous", right? This is regular and continuous, it's, it's, got alife, you know, it's got a cycle.00;01;53;28 [Jason]: So yeah, absolutely, regular is a big deal. We have folksthat have a rental, one rental, you know, they have a W-2 job, theyhave all those things and they're trying to say, I have a home officeto manage my rental. It's just never going to happen. Now, if wehave 10 rentals, 6 rentals, that's all you do is manage your00;02;11;02 rentals. We have some people that have 3 or 4 VRBOs or Airbnb,short term rentals and that is all they do.00;02;18;24 [Rachael]: Time consuming.00;02;18;29 [Jason]: Their working that stuff 100% so yeah, so that's regular.How about exclusive Joe? Joseph? What's exclusive?00;02;24;27 [Joseph]: So, let's say you have an extra room in the bedroomthat's you want to use for your home office and it also can't be yourtheater room. So you know, that's gotta be exclusively used forbusiness.00;02;33;20 [Jason]: What if you're a videographer and the theater is yourbusiness? I'm teasing you.00;02;38;03 [Joseph]: Well, you have an argument there. Or, or00;02;38;24 [Jason]: No, but you can't mix the use, yeah00;02;41;07 [Joseph]: Right, unless you run a daycare out of your00;02;42;13 [Jason]: Right.00;02;42;21 [Joseph]: House as well.00;02;43;05 [Jason]: Yeah, and daycare has its own special rules and this is notthe podcast for that because00;02;47;27 [Joseph]: Right.00;02;48;01 [Jason]: I don't know those rules by a memory. I look them up oncein awhile when I have to, but that's it. But right, those are some ofthe shared use stuff can be daycare. Other than that, it's regularand exclusive with a business purpose. So, tell me some of thebank, the benefits of having a home office00;03;05;25 deduction or home office reimbursement.00;03;08;10 [Rachael]: Reimbursement? Is that part of your mortgage interest?00;03;13;15 [Jason]: Okay.00;03;13;23 [Rachael]: Your real estate taxes,00;03;15;05 [Jason]: Okay.00;03;15;19 [Rachael]: Utilities.00;03;16;21 [Jason]: Okay.00;03;17;09 [Rachael]: Could become a small deduction.00;03;19;21 [Jason]: Okay.00;03;21;11 [Rachael]: For you, a business deduction.00;03;21;18 [Jason]: Yeah absolutely. And what are some of those expensesthat aren't otherwise available to be deducted? And mortgageinsurance, we say yes, right?00;03;27;29 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm00;03;28;14 [Jason]: Schedule A property taxes, we say yes, but how about theother ones?00;03;31;04 [Rachael]: Utilities, insurance00;03;33;19 [Jason]: HOA dues.00;03;34;21 [Rachael]: Yeah. Mm-hmm.00;03;35;24 [Joseph]: Repairs. Okay, so suddenly those become deductible andin a world where otherwise it wouldn't be.00;03;40;11 [Rachael]: Right.00;03;40;21 [Joseph]: Yeah.00;03;41;01 [Jason]: Okay, and how do we calculate that home officededuction?00;03;45;17 [Rachael]: Well we do it by square footage.00;03;48;07 [Jason]: Yeah, that is probably the most common, is squarefootage. You could do it at room by room, the IRS allow that, theyactually mentioned that in Publication, what? 587, or whatever it is.But I've never seen anybody do room by room.00;04;00;15 [Rachael]: No.00;04;00;20 [Jason]: It's always, usually, I shouldn't say always, but usually it'ssquare footage, yeah. So what's the basic calculation? It's thehome office space divided by00;04;09;24 [Joseph]: Total space of the house.00;04;10;26 [Jason]: Yeah, the total space of the house. What if you use yourgarage, then what do you do?00;04;15;08 [Joseph]: You include it.00;04;16;12 [Jason]: Include it where?00;04;17;08 [Joseph]: In both.00;04;18;01 [Jason]: In both numerator and denominator? Yeah, exactly. So ifwe're going to take the benefit of the garage and it's not otherwisein the denominator then we have to add it in.00;04;29;26 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;04;30;02 [Jason]: Yeah, exactly. So, that's home office. What's this 50 milerule thing? Who wants to talk about that?00;04;38;14 [Joseph]: Right, so the 50 mile rule's, you know, kind of a safeharbor if you will, that if you know, your home office is within 50miles of your tax home then you can, you know, deduct expensesassociated with00;04;50;29 commuting from the tax home to the home office.00;04;54;17 [Jason]: Yeah, exactly. It's, they want, "they" being the IRS and thetax court, they want your home office to be, there's no written ruleon this, it's more of a contrived rule.00;05;06;23 But your home office needs to be within 50 miles of your tax home.Your tax home is where you earn your revenue. So, the greatexample, in one of the tax court cases, is a surgeon had a home inPennsylvania.00;05;23;05 He drove to New York, I believe, and it was 130 miles away. He wasattempting to deduct all those commuting expenses and becausehe was like, well, I got a home office. So then my commute is frommy bedroom to the basement. And then when I hop in the car, it'sall business miles, and of course the00;05;43;06 IRS and tax court said "No." They said it's too far from your taxhome, basically. So they dis, disallowed all those expenses asdeductible expenses and00;05;54;27 consider them commuting expenses, which is normally a personalexpense.00;05;59;03 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;05;59;12 [Jason]: Non deductible. So, that's this 50 mile rule. What, youknow, talk to me about the audit rate risk for home offices and00;06;09;25 [Rachael]: [Inaudible]00;06;10;00 [Jason]: and, you've, and you've been doing taxes for a little bit oftime.00;06;14;07 [Rachael]: Just a little while.00;06;14;13 [Jason]: So tell me a little bit about the history.00;06;16;12 [Rachael]: It's kind of high. Yeah and it's, it's almost like they canwalk in and assume you're doing something wrong because they're,they're not easy rules. And you know, maybe the square footageisn't complete or they can say, Hey, what's with the day bed andyour home office?00;06;31;02 [Jason]: Right.00;06;31;13 [Rachael]: Or, and it's not just the deductions that you're getting,your utilities, your small amount of additional square footage, butit's that commuting miles00;06;42;07 [Jason]: Right.00;06;42;15 [Rachael]: That are, it's going to be pricey00;06;43;26 [Jason]: Yeah.00;06;44;04 [Rachael]: If its not done right.00;06;45;07 [Jason]: Yeah, absolutely. So, home offices, 20 years ago were notvery common, so it was a high audit rate risk.00;06;53;19 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;06;54;11 [Jason]: Today telecommuters and all that stuff is a lot higher. Butnow we're back to not being seen very often because if you're aW-2 individual working out of your home office for a company out ofCalifornia,00;07;07;05 you would have to deduct that on Form 2106.00;07;10;19 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;07;11;04 [Jason]: And those expenses, those deductions are no longerallowed. So, home office is almost been shrunk down to just forbusiness owners.00;07;18;02 [Rachael]: Yeah.00;07;18;29 [Jason]: So, how are we going to do that? Joseph, talk to, talk to usabout how we're going to do the home office from an S Corpperspective.00;07;28;20 [Joseph]: So, we'll use an accountable plan for the home office forthe S Corp and one of the reasons why we do that, so you know SCorp's are cash basis, you know, and00;07;38;07 [Jason]: Typically.00;07;38;23 [Joseph]: Typically, typically.00;07;39;14 [Jason]: Yes, small businesses enjoy using cash as their method of00;07;43;18 [Joseph]: Right. Accounting, it's simple. Depending on their grossreceipts.00;07;45;18 [Jason]: Yeah.00;07;45;27 [Joseph]: And we just, we have you record it, you know, for like, likeRachael said, your interest, taxes, insurance, and then you getreimbursed by the S Corp for your business use percentage of00;07;58;00 [Jason]: Okay.00;07;58;06 [Joseph]: Business expenses.00;07;59;18 [Jason]: So, just to back up for a viewers and listeners, anaccountable plan is the method used to reimburse people,employees for business use of their personal assets.00;08;13;03 [Jason]: Car, cell phone, home, are probably the biggest ones,right?00;08;16;05 [Joseph]: Mm-hmm.00;08;16;19 [Jason]: So, and we forgot to put cell phone down on our big list ofdeductions, but we can talk about that in a second. So, the benefitto that is we're getting reimbursed by our business. That expense iskind of tucked away on the S Corp tax return, using00;08;35;29 an S Corp in your00;08;36;29 [Joseph]: Mm-hmm.00;08;37;28 [Jason]: example as occupancy expense. Not that you can't defendit, not that we're doing anything wrong, but it certainly is not as highof an audit rate as filing Form 8829.00;08;49;29 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;08;50;06 [Jason]: Which is clearly the Office In Home worksheet.00;08;53;12 [Joseph]: Right.00;08;53;20 [Jason]: That gets tucked on or tacked onto your Schedule C, if youwere to have a business only on your 1040. So, that just shrinksdramatically, the audit rate risk, from home office perspective.00;09;07;06 [Joseph]: And too, S Corp's already face a lower audit ratethemselves.00;09;10;14 [Jason]: Yes, 0.4% given I think 2017 data00;09;14;28 [Joseph]: Mm-hmm, 2017, yeah.00;09;15;02 [Jason]: Is the latest that we have now. So the IRS takes forever tocompile00;09;19;03 [Joseph]: Yeah.00;09;19;11 [Jason]: This stuff. I mean, I guess it makes a little bit of sensebecause audits take time00;09;23;07 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;09;23;18 [Jason]: to generate and to do. But I still like to think we can live ina real time world. You know what I mean? Like we should know likeright now how many audits are happening. So, alright, let's talkabout commuting expenses. You know, you get up in the morning,you drive to WCG Inc, you know, is00;09;45;22 that an expense you can deduct?00;09;47;09 [Rachael]: No, it's not.00;09;48;01 [Jason]: Okay. Are you bummed out about that?00;09;49;20 [Rachael]: Yes, I am.00;09;50;08 [Jason]: Yeah, okay, we should write our Senators and ourCongress people. So, okay, so commute expenses? No. Even ifyou travel far, let's say you moved to Denver and you drove everyday down in the Colorado Springs, it doesn't matter, right?00;10;03;18 [Rachael]: Still personal, yeah.00;10;03;27 [Jason]: Right, so there's no like, Hey, we recognize that you'retraveling really far, we'll give you that deduction. There's nothinglike that. So, commuting expenses, parking, tolls, all that associatedwith going to00;10;16;18 your tax home if you will, are not going to be deductible. So, great,Country Club Dues, Rachel?00;10;23;14 [Rachael]: No, can't do it.00;10;24;15 [Jason]: No! Wow! Just hammered, boom.00;10;28;06 [Rachael]: Sad, yeah.00;10;29;14 [Jason]: Talk to me a little more about that. So we have someonewho has a membership somewhere, but they do entertain, shouldn'tsay that00;10;35;07 [Rachael]: Nope. Yeah.00;10;35;11 [Joseph]: Yeah, discuss business.00;10;36;08 [Jason]: They do discuss business at their country club.00;10;40;17 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;10;40;20 [Jason]: How does that work?00;10;41;29 [Rachael]: Those expenses for the country club dues are going tobe personal.00;10;46;19 [Jason]: Right.00;10;46;25 [Rachael]: It's great that they're generating business00;10;48;29 [Jason]: Yes.00;10;49;07 [Rachael]: At the country club00;10;50;14 [Jason]: Okay.00;10;50;20 [Rachael]: but the dues are not deductible.00;10;52;01 [Jason]: All right, so this same member, buys a meal. The businesspurpose is clear. They00;10;59;20 [Rachael]: Yup.00;10;59;23 [Jason]: Were there to discuss business and now this individual isbuying a meal that's going to get tacked on top of his or her dues.How's that work?00;11;07;16 [Rachael]: That meal portion is going to be 50%00;11;10;14 [Jason]: Okay. Deductible as a business meal. Just, just like we'vealways done.00;11;13;06 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;11;13;09 [Jason]: With meals. Okay, great. Talk to me a little abouteducation. Can you run education expenses through yourbusiness?00;11;20;21 [Joseph]: It depends.00;11;21;20 [Jason]: It depends, ah look just the classic accountant.00;11;24;28 [Rachael]: Yeah, maybe.00;11;26;00 [Jason]: Yeah.00;11;26;14 [Joseph]: If those education expenses are to improve your currentfield, then possibly. If they're to do something completely different,you know so if I was going to go to school to become a doctor now,which probably won't happen.00;11;37;13 [Jason]: Yeah.00;11;37;23 [Joseph]: But, those won't be deductible.00;11;40;03 [Jason]: Right, so the rule is it has to improve your current workskills. And you can even do, deducted a degree or even like, youknow, college courses, even if it leads to a degree, provided it'simproving your current00;11;57;20 work skills. So, you're absolutely correct, the other half of that is ifyou need it for certifications, like your continuing educations and allthat stuff. So, people who are CPAs have to go do all these, youknow, nauseating00;12;10;15 [Rachael]: [All laugh]00;12;11;02 [Jason]: Continuing Ed credits, you know, I'm sure we learned a lottoo, but you know, anyway, so, so that's education. How about yourchildren? Can you hire your children and consider them employeesand have the company00;12;27;10 pay for the education? Who wants to take that one?00;12;31;01 [Joseph]: I would say yes.00;12;32;07 [Jason]: I'd say no. [Laughs]00;12;34;09 [Joseph]: Like, the client advocacy in me would say Yes.00;12;38;13 [Jason]: Yeah.00;12;38;20 [Joseph]: Because of the, the relation though it will be disallowed.00;12;41;15 [Jason]: Right? Yeah, I was giving you a hard time. So section 127says if your child is 20 years or younger, they have attribution toyou as Mom and Dad being an owner of the company.00;12;54;21 If you own 5% or more of the company, you can't deduct thateducation.00;13;00;01 [Jason]: But if your child legitimately works, and is 21 or older, sowe're talking junior or senior00;13;08;24 [Rachael]: In college.00;13;08;29 [Jason]: If you're on a six year plan, you're a sophomore, right?Then the company can pay up to 5,250 a year, I think that's 2019limit. So, that might get index every year, like everything else. So,anyway that's education. How about client gifts? How do youhandle that?00;13;23;16 [Rachael]: Oh, they're $25 cap.00;13;27;08 [Jason]: Ahh $25?00;13;27;14 [Rachael]: I know, its really, yep. Mm-hmm.00;13;28;29 [Joseph]: Well they give you the $4 for gift wrapping, so00;13;31;16 [Jason]: And they give you $4 per pen or something.00;13;33;09 [Joseph]: Per pen, yeah.00;13;33;11 [Rachael]: That's advertising, yes.00;13;37;02 [Jason]: So, talk to me more about the $25 rule. Is that like all giftsor, or is it just for gifts to specific people?00;13;48;14 [Rachael]: It's gifts to a limited clientele. If you were handing giftsout to the general public and it was a lower cost, then that would beconsidered advertising.00;14;00;07 [Jason]: Okay.00;14;00;14 [Rachael]: And I think they give $4 for each advertising gift.00;14;04;21 [Jason]: Yeah.00;14;04;27 [Rachael]: Which I'm not quite sure what, you know, a pen or acalendar or something like that.00;14;08;26 [Jason]: Yeah, I don't know how much stuff like that costs either,yeah.00;14;12;12 [Rachael]: But your $75 wine basket is going to be a $25 businessgift.00;14;17;29 [Jason]: Yeah, and as I've seen it, read it maybe in Journal ofAccountancy, other things like that, but that's an individual limit. Soif you don't donate, or if you don't provide that gift to an individual, ifyou just do it to the business00;14;33;01 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;14;33;10 [Jason]: There might be different rules00;14;34;03 [Rachael]: Yes.00;14;34;13 [Jason]: allowing you to take more deduction. So if you say, DearBob, thanks for all the business00;14;39;27 [Rachael]: versus staff at.00;14;41;03 [Jason]: Yeah, exactly.00;14;42;19 [Rachael]: Yeah.00;14;43;06 [Jason]: yeah, exactly. So, and you can see why, you know, theIRS is always worried about transfer of wealth without taxation.00;14;50;02 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;14;50;12 [Jason]: Right? So if you, if you come in there with a bunch of clientgifts for one person it might look like a transfer of wealth. So, howabout professional attire? I am rocking the WCG.00;15;00;18 [Joseph]: That's true, very nice.00;15;00;29 [Jason]: On my shirt here. But tell me about professional attire.People will constantly ask you00;15;07;09 [Rachael]: Yep.00;15;07;28 [Jason]: I have to look good in my business suit, I have to have mynails and hair done, I have to rock, I have to rock this image.00;15;15;25 [Rachael]: And they're all personal.00;15;17;27 [Jason]: Yes, even though they're dead sexy, right? Even thoughthey're very good looking.00;15;21;21 [Rachael]: And necessary00;15;22;01 [Jason]: Yes.00;15;22;14 [Rachael]: Absolutely necessary. Yeah. So there's a businesspurpose behind it, but no tax deduction.00;15;26;09 [Jason]: Right. So what's the rule?00;15;28;07 [Joseph]: If it's not suitable for everyday wear00;15;30;00 [Jason]: Yes.00;15;30;11 [Joseph]: You can deduct it.00;15;30;20 [Jason]: So, if it's, yeah, so if you can, if it's suitable for everydaywear, easily convertible into everyday wear, then it's not deductible.00;15;38;08 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;15;38;25 [Jason]: Right? Business suits are, you know, clearly somethingyou can convert to everyday use. We do have some, TVpersonalities.00;15;47;10 [Joseph]: Yes.00;15;47;15 [Jason]: We do have some models, you know, and we can, we canidentify some of that attire as costumes, something that theywouldn't, you know, be caught dead in. And that's true for some ofthese models, for sure.00;16;01;26 They wear stuff and they're like, I'm never wearing that in public. Itjust, it looks good on a cover of a magazine, but that's about it.00;16;08;15 [Jason]: Those are costumes, they're not suitable for everyday use.Those are something that we can deduct. TV personalities, they'llbuy, you know, a thousand jackets and they'll give them away andso those become marketing toys00;16;20;19 [Rachael]: Yeah.00;16;20;25 [Jason]: Or ploys or whatever, so absolutely. Let's talk about, perdiem and I'll just kind of talk about this real quick. Per diems a funnything. If you own 10% or more of a corporation and, and also theremight be some00;16;38;21 attribution there, where if your brother or your sister or your Mom or00;16;42;16 [Joseph]: Spouse.00;16;43;12 [Jason]: Whatever, then you are assumed to have the same,greater than 10%. If you are in that boat, you cannot take a perdiem reimbursement. So the scenario would be like this, I'm 100%owner of a corporation. I pay myself $71 a day for every day thatI'm in San Francisco, because00;17;02;15 that's the per diem rate. Let's say using 2018 numbers, I haven'tseen them, I haven't looked at per diem in a while cause we don't,we don't see 2106 expenses anymore. But, that would not beallowed. WCG Inc says, Rachel, we need you to go to, let's sayCortez, we really00;17;18;23 didn't like you very much. I'm teasing, Cortez is lovely. But, and wesay, Hey, we're going to give you $71 per per day that you're00;17;27;08 there for meals, that would be acceptable.00;17;30;11 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;17;30;13 [Jason]: Now that will not be revenue to you. You maybe only spend$20, you know, whatever. You still get to take that $71 as tax freeincome.00;17;40;24 [Jason]: So, because you don't own 10% or more of WCG Inc.That'll change, you know, you'll own, own it all and00;17;49;07 [Rachael]: Eighty-five percent like you.00;17;50;09 [Jason]: Joseph, I'll be working for you one day, it'll be awesome.So, but that's per diem, per diem is a little tricky. There is the, themeals and incidentals component. There is the lodging component.The meals and incidentals component, as far as I know and read it,is00;18;06;24 available to Schedule C, Sole Prop, single member LLC types. Theminute you're a corporation or you act with a corporation through anS Corp election that gets tossed out the window.00;18;18;06 Lodging, regardless, is always going to be actual expenses. Youdon't get the high, low seasonal rates and all that stuff that you seein those per diem tables as a business owner. So, we ran throughhome office, all kinds of good stuff there. We ran through all kindsof other deductions that we get entertained with,00;18;38;10 quite literally, cause some people are pretty clever, right?00;18;41;22 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;18;41;29 [Jason]: With, with their deductions. The bottom line is, people askme all the time and they ask all of us all the time, how do I save ontaxes, right? And the first thing I say is, look, your job is to buildwealth, not save taxes.00;18;56;12 We can save taxes along the way, that's great. But your job in life isto build wealth. Now, if you still want to save taxes the trick is tolook at what cash you're already comfortable with leaving yourbody.00;19;10;24 [Jason]: So go through your checkbook and try to figure out if therewas one thing that you missed or maybe this expense really didhave a business connection to it and I forgot that it did, or to digdeep. So, it's to look at the money that you're already willing tospend and try00;19;28;06 to find a business connection.00;19;29;23 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;19;30;15 [Jason]: Now, I say find a business connection, like discover abusiness connection00;19;35;18 [Rachael]: Not create one.00;19;35;27 [Jason]: Not fabricate a business connection. So anyway, those,those are some of the other business deductions that we see a lotof: commuting expenses, country club dues, education, client00;19;47;20 gifts, professional attire, per diem, all that good stuff. We talkedabout home office in this segment as well. We didn't talk about cellphones. You know, cell phones, you know, folks will try to deduct100%, right?00;20;02;16 [Joseph]: Mm-hmm.00;20;02;21 [Jason]: "I use it for my business," oh, I know you use it for yourbusiness, I see that. But the minute you get a text saying, Heyhoney, you know, you're out of beer you should probably pick somemore up on the way home; and milk and eggs are low too. Nowyour cell phone's no longer 100%.00;20;17;04 [Rachael]: Mm-hmm.00;20;18;17 [Jason]: So, you know our firm-wide soft ceiling is around 80%, ifyou're a realtor, you're probably on the phone all the time. Peoplehave kicked landlines to the curb but still your phone is going tohave a high personal use and I, I believe, we believe as a firm, 20%is00;20;37;00 about the minimum there, meaning 80% is for business.00;20;40;26 [Jason]: Maybe you're a dentist, right? And you use your cell phoneoccasionally, you do have an office phone and all those otherthings, so maybe that's like 30% business use and 70% forpersonal. So, commonly we see cell phones being paid for by thebusiness and they00;20;58;19 truly are a mixed-use asset, so a mixed-use asset should be00;21;03;06 [Joseph]: Paid by you personally00;21;04;10 [Jason]: Exactly.00;21;05;00 [Joseph]: And reimbursed to you on an accountable plan.00;21;06;04 [Jason]: Yup. So, assets that you own personally should be paid forpersonally. If there's a business connection or use of that assetthen get reimbursed. No different than you working for Google andGoogle says, Hey, you know, drive down to the store, pick up some,you know, some pencils and we'll00;21;21;15 reimburse you. Well, you bring in a receipt and you're bringing inyour mileage log, and maybe you have to use your cell phone andall that stuff, and they would cut you a check for the business use ofyour personal stuff. So, anyway those are some of the common taxdeductions that we see here at WCG.00;21;36;06 My name is Jason Watson with WCG. I'm alongside Rachel Weberand Joseph Bassett. We're at the Axe and the Oak and this is a partof our Bourbon and Business series of podcasts and videos and wethank you for joining us and we'll00;21;51;00 talk to you real soon.

Is there a way for property managers to reduce delinquent rent payments by more than 50 percent? How can residents positively or negatively impact their credit score by 20-70 points?  Today, I am talking to President Dave Haldi and CEO Steve Jarvis of CredHub, which helps property managers report on every resident, including those considered a credit risk. It reports the positive and negative, incentivising tenants to make paying on time their top priority.  You’ll Learn... [01:47] CredHub: Name change, funding, continued growth, and creating transparency. [02:06] CredHub’s Competition: Most companies only process and record positive payments, not negative payments on individual's credit score. [02:28] Bolt-on Technology: CredHub connects and bolts onto rental software systems to validate positive and negative payments via rent roll system. [02:52] How it works: Provides property managers access to an individual's credit score information reported to credit bureaus and pass-through revenue opportunity. [03:27] RentCredit Plus includes identity theft resolution services and rental payment reporting to credit bureaus for $3.50 each month. [04:20] Customer Support: Resolution Services as Customer Support: If there is a credit issue, CredHub takes on responsibility to work with credit bureaus.  [05:35] Doing Good Things: CredHub helps people get back their financial health and credit for payments.  [06:42] Recapitalization: Report all data at scale to achieve goal of growing CredHub. [07:58] Lease vs. Mortgage: What’s the difference? Educate managers and residents. [09:13] Audit Proof: Information given to credit bureaus via CreditHub must be correct. [11:25] Collections: CredHub has credentials to create trade line for property managers. [11:54] Implementation Process: After CredHub has signed agreement, implementation takes about six weeks. Tweetables Increase credit score by 20–70 points; make paying rent on time a top priority.  CredHub: Bolt-on, backend, rent roll, data pole cleansing and reporting at scale.  CredHub: Gets property managers out of credit business, and puts them in property management business. CredHub reports the positive and negative, incentivizing tenants to pay on time. Resources CredHub CredHub’s YouTube Channel Yardi RealPage Rent Manager ResMan  TransUnion  Equifax Rogers Payment Fair Credit Reporting Act DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrowLive DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrow Website Score Quiz Transcript Dave: ...opportunity for property managers to help reduce their delinquency because we figured out a way to report the negative or late payments. The program can then help increase an individual's credit score 20–70 points on a positive perspective but it will also impact their score negatively and help reduce delinquency by over 50% encouraging an individual to pay on time and making rent their priority to pay. It started four years ago, validated the idea, worked with some property management companies locally. We changed the name to CredHub a little about a year ago, got funded, we've had continued growth, and built an automated technology with a dashboard to create transparency of what we had learned from the marketplace. That's what created CredHub and that's where we are today. Jason: Perfect. There's other companies in the space they that do this. Is that correct? Dave: There are a few companies but we're a bolt-on technology. Most of the companies that we have come across are payment processors and they may process payments only allowing to record positive payments on an individual's credit score. Our technology connects and bolts on to the back-end of rental software systems—Yardi, RealPage, Rent Manager, ResMan, et cetera. Therefore, we validate the payment that has been made because it comes out of the back-end of the rent roll system allowing us to report positive and negative. It also gives the property manager, on-site resident manager transparency to see what information was reported to the credit bureaus once it's been uploaded and helps affect the individual's credit score. So, we're different. We also create a pass-through revenue opportunity for the property manager to make some additional revenue for their bottom line through our program. Jason: Okay, explain how that works. Dave: So, we have RentCredit Plus, which also includes an identity theft resolution services because identity theft is such an issue today, especially in larger properties with mail rooms, et cetera. With that, we charge $3.50 for this program that is identity theft resolution services as well as reporting the rental payments to the credit bureaus, both positive and negative, on a monthly basis. It would be our best results or best practices or we make this program mandatory for all residents. We charge $3.50 per person on the lease including the co-signer and most of our clients charge $7. So, they make a 50% increase of what we charge for the product and for the services that we provide.  In addition to that, we also provide the resolution services, making sure that if they do have a credit issue, we take on all the responsibility to work with the credit bureaus to make sure if something was reported incorrectly, we will fix it. So, we provide that customer support from a third party's perspective, not eliminating the burden to the on-site resident manager and getting them out of the credit business because they're in the property management business. Jason: Got it, okay. So, Steve, what's your role at CredHub then? Steve: Yeah. So, I came in to the company about a year ago when we recapitalized the company as Dave said and renamed it to CredHub and that recapitalization was really meant to build this platform so that we could do this back-end, rent roll, data pole cleansing and reporting at scale. My career was always in automation and travel. I worked for the likes of Expedia and built alaskaair.com for Alaska Airlines and had retired from travel, and was looking for an interesting new project that really had an element of doing good things for people that needed it which, I believe, we're doing it at CredHub. The folks that are now going to be able to get credit for their Rogers payment or are young folks that are credit-invisible or folks that need to get back in financial health back on their feet. It feels really good to be working in this market. I'm CEO, so primarily looking at business development and strategy finance. The goal here is to really do this at scale nationally. You mentioned what makes us different and David had mentioned that the element of negative reporting of late and skipped payments and its impact on getting residents to pay on time for property managers. No one's really done that at scale. Like Dave has said, others in the market that are doing reporting are doing almost entirely positive reporting which it's pretty easy. The hard part is this is what we do is getting all of the data reported and doing it at scale. I came in with the recapitalization, with an element to really growing this thing nationally and doing it in a big way. Jason: Perfect. So, what questions do property managers typically want to know about CredHub? Steve: Well, one of the things, for me, especially coming into the property management space having been to trade shows, travel, and technology, the core of what we do is really, really easy to understand, which is really compelling. When we talk to property managers, it's pretty easy to get what we do in 90 seconds. Like really, wow, you can report positive and negative to credit bureaus, reduce my delinquency, I can add a revenue stream, and my residents will like it because I'm helping them. There aren't a lot of questions there. We do get some questions as we roll through closing clients on the legal side. We'll get a legal department and a property management company worrying about disputes from their residents but it's a fairly easy question to answer because the residents have a financial obligation. They have a contract called a lease. It's not that different than a mortgage. Property management companies who aren't being paid by the residents have every right to report that to the credit bureaus. There's an education process that I think we need to go through on that side of the sales process with property managers. Oftentimes, we'll get questions on whether this is optional. Property management company may want to have this be an opt-in for their residents. That's not how we work. We report the entire file to the entire resident population to the credit bureaus which is what they want. Our program really only works for property managers if everybody's being reported including those that are credit risk. Dave, do you have any other? Dave: Yeah. I think a couple of analogies would be and it really creates this carrot with the stick, encouraging people to pay on time and because they require everybody, all of the residents to be reported the messaging is consistent for everyone. It also has helped us because of our platform being so audit-proof because the information that needs to go to the credit bureaus has to be right. We found that we've really helped clean up the data that we're pulling out of the system because it has to be correct. We provide an error submission report and that report can go back so it's something that maybe the on-site resident manager or assistant manager can help clean up as they're going through their lease renewals or new residency. We found errors or mistakes when maybe a check has come in, it got incorrectly posted. Because ours is third party, it helps to create checks and balances and the system is audit-proof. It provided an additional layer but easy for people to log into and make the changes. And we support them seven days a week, 24/7 if they have an issue. I think the other questions that may come up is, "Well, how does this work?" One of the things for a property management firm who works with us, we create a trade line at the credit bureaus. We have credentials and privileges with TransUnion and Equifax so we credential them and create a trade line with the bureaus. Therefore, if we are working with somebody and we pick a date that we report on the 10th of the month, rent is late at 30 days because we pay rent in advance. If an individual is delinquent or pays late after the 10th or they don't pay, Fair Credit Reporting Act says, "It can't be turned to collections until 90 days." If we report on the 10th, we're going to be 50 days ahead when that person can go to collections affecting their credit score, encouraging them to pay the property manager in full and not having to lose that income that could be the cost of going through collections. That's a piece that becomes critical in what we do and a lot of questions get surrounded about that but we have all the credentials to create the trade line necessary for the property manager. Jason: How difficult is this for a property management business owner to implement? Maybe you could talk a little bit about the process. Dave: The process is we meet with them, we work with them on the pricing, and figure out when it would work for them to implement. Once we have a signed agreement, we try to implement it within six weeks if that works for them.  Once we've got credentials with the bureaus, then our data team connects with somebody in their office. It usually takes an hour, but once we pull the data to get it out of the system, then we go through some testing on our end making sure that the data is correct. Once we've confirmed that, we give them four weeks or a month. Let's just say, we signed a contract in August. We would give them the month of September, lay out a timeline that we work with them to educate their on-site resident managers, create a lease addendum because we know that our best practices if they sign, if they put the addendum in the lease, it gets explained to them helping that education of why it's important to pay your rent on time. Then, they sign the leases with the addendum. We have a template, but we can make changes to the addendum depending on how they want to implement it. And then we would begin reporting on the 10th of the following month or on a mutually-agreed date they want to pull it. In some states like Washington, with just changing the 3-day evict or 14-day evict, we used to report some property management firms on the 15th but because of that change, they have asked us to report on the 5th. So, we can change the pull date and the report date helping encourage the protection of the property management company for these individuals who are playing the system or gaming the system and not paying their rent on time. Jason: Okay. Cool. It sounds pretty simple, sounds like a really good idea, really good service. Now, can landlords listen to this, besides property managers, also implement this, or homeowner? Dave: Yes. We work with any property type or size. If they don't have a rent roll system, we just create a spreadsheet for them, collect the necessary information, and then they can upload the spreadsheet themselves through our portal. We have a variety of ways we can connect and help very managed. Jason: Very cool. All right. The CredHub sounds like a brilliant idea. It reports the positive, it also reports the negative, incentivizing the tenants to make sure they're paying on time. It gives them the benefit of building some credits so there's a carrot and a stick connected to this. You also have identity theft resolution they can be tied to this that can be a profit center. Ultimately, how much does this cost the homeowner or property manager? Or do they just make money doing this?  Steve: Pass-through revenue model, they make money doing this. We bolt onto their existing system, we help them do the lease addendum with the residents and they actually make money. We like to think of it as a win-win-win. It's good for the residents, it’s great for the property manager, and obviously, we're in business for profit as well. Jason: Win, win, win. All right. Anything else that anybody should know? How can they get in touch with CredHub if somebody's listening to this and they wanted to get started, they wanted to check you guys out? How can they connect? Steve: credhub.com would be the best place to go. We have a YouTube channel that has some really simple videos on it, you can link to those from the CredHub website. In fact, our animated “what we do” video is in the hero image right on the homepage. We have a Contact Us section and a there's a form there that property managers can sign up with the number of units they have and we'll follow-up. That's probably the best way to do it is just to come visit us at credhub.com. Jason: Perfect. Sounds like a no-brainer, it makes sense. I think what you guys are doing is going to help out a lot of people which I resonate with and I appreciate you guys coming out on the DoorGrow Show. Dave: Thanks for having us. Jason: All right, we'll let you guys go. So, checkout CredHub at credhub.com. For those that are new to watching or listening to the DoorGrow Show, be sure to like and subscribe. Leave us a review somewhere that would really make a difference and check us out at doorgrow.com. If you're wanting to grow your property management business, or you're in need of a new website, or you're just wanting to make sure that your business is growing as effectively as it could, reach out. We'd love to talk to you. Until next time, to our mutual growth. Bye everyone.

Josh, Tim, and Rachel answer your questions! Questions: This question from Ellen on the forum prompts a larger discussion of labels that pro-life and pro-choice people use for either side, what precisely is so wrong with “pro-abort,” as well as labels used for the unborn: “I think a good thing to discuss on the podcast or just here on the forum is issues within the movement and how we should approach them . . . Also, dealing with people who are super entrenched in some of the habits mentioned in module one. I know several people who can’t talk about abortion without using terms like “deathscort” and “pro-abort.” Ellen: “Another one that comes to mind is how many major pro-life organizations both nationally and locally feel the need to also include topics such as traditional marriage as part of their message. I’m a Christian myself so I don’t even necessarily disagree with their views on this, but it just seems like a weird, unrelated thing to bring up. It makes it difficult for me to involve my atheist, LGBT friends in pro-life events.” Malessa from Australia: “When having discussions about the equality of the pre-born, do you get push back about equality of homosexuals? I know these are two very different discussions, and no one is talking about killing homosexuals because they are unequal/not human, but I imagine the ‘marriage equality’ topic may come up in conversations. Maybe not so much in the US since the Supreme Court ruling, but here in Australia same-sex marriage is still not recognized/legally valid relationship, so I imagine someone calling me some sort of hypocrite if I use the word “equality” and yet am against SSM.” Jason: “How do you respond to a friend who has had a lot of good experiences at Planned Parenthood and says that she will support them no matter what?” Related Link: Secular Pro-Life article published on how they felt as atheists at a seminar Josh Brahm led

Do you want to build wealth through real estate investing and property management? Then, put in the work, trust the process, be open-minded, and get results that change your life. Today, I am talking to Robin Reed, CEO of Concept 360 Property Management and a licensed California real estate broker. She helps clients reposition assets to maximize their value by decreasing expenses and increasing income.  You’ll Learn... [04:29] Challenging Coworkers: Let them go, and try not to grow the company.  [05:07] Learn to appreciate employees who handle day-to-day tasks and tenants.  [05:45] Feast or Famine: Flip from brokerage income to property management.  [07:27] Completely Commit to Changes: Follow DoorGrow, and do whatever it takes.  [12:00] Then vs. Now: No Jerks Allowed policy to make everyone happy.  [17:05] Desperation and Disrespect: You get it, or you don’t.  [17:25] Value of Property Management: If working for peanuts...get what you pay for. [18:20] Walk Away: Not everything, everyone is a perfect market/product fit.  [22:00] Feeding Funnel: What do you do? What’s property management?  [25:50] Retention: What works? Sells? Results and relationships with real estate agents.  [26:05] Growing from 65 to 200 doors; adding 2-5 doors/properties each month.  [30:15] Second Sandtrap: New challenges ahead for processes, teams, trust, and more.  Tweetables I like working on the business, and not in the business. Feast or Famine: Rollercoaster of brokerage income. Be willing to change, take action, and make a difference. What sells, what people want to buy are results. Resources Concept 360 Property Management National Association of Residential Property Managers (NARPM) LeadSimple GatherKudos DoorGrow Case Studies and Website Secrets DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrowLive DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrow Website Score Quiz Transcript Jason: Welcome, DoorGrow hackers to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it, you think they’re crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change the perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I’m your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let’s get into the show. Today's guest is Robin Reed of Concept 360 Property Management. Robin, welcome to the show. Robin: Thank you, Jason. Jason: It's really good to see you. Robin: You too. Jason: Robin has been a client. For long have you been a client? Robin: Coming up to two years. I think we’re right around two years. Jason: Maybe I should read a little bit of your bio because you’re really cool. It says, Robin Reed is a licensed California real estate broker and CEO of Concept 360 Property Management with a background in commercial real estate, finance, investment, and development. She's experienced in all real estate asset classes having secured over million in both debt and equity for her clients. She opened Concept 360 Property Management to share her true passion and combined experience as a broker and investor with her clients by helping them reposition their assets. They maximize their value by decreasing expenses and increasing income. A passionate real estate investor herself. She enjoys helping her clients build wealth through real estate investing. Robin is actively involved in several real estate trade organizations including NARPM, the National Association of Residential Property Managers, and is always aware of the pulls of the current real estate market. An Orange County native, she holds a BA degree in English and Comparative Literature from Chapman University. Robin, I actually saw you in person in Long Beach when I spoke at the NARPM chapter. It was awesome because you and your husband came up to me and gave me a big hug. I remember after that event you said some kind words to me. After that event, I was kind of high of the event, but afterwards in the parking lot, I started crying. Because as a coach and as a mentor to a lot of property management companies, I don't get to see clients in person very often because a lot are digital or remote. But occasionally, at a conference or something and somebody comes up to me and they say something in gratitude, that means a lot to me. Robin: Right. Jason: That was one of the moments I cherish. It was really nice being able to help you guys out. Why don't we start back at the beginning? Maybe a couple of years ago when you came to myself and to DoorGrow. What challenges were you dealing with then? What has been happening? Robin: We had let an employee go. The company was something that at the beginning when it first started in 2004, it was pretty big and had a lot of multi-family and things like that. Then the recession hit, a lot of people sold their buildings, some lost them, things like that. We weren't really focused on the property management company. It was just sort of this thing over in the other office that was self-sustaining and it was really something we weren't paying attention to and we were really focused on brokerage. We did a lot of brokerages, sold a lot of REOs for banks and we were really involved in that. I guess it was three years ago, that was right, it was about three years ago and we let an employee go and we looked and realized we were down from probably at the hay day close to 1800 doors, we are down to 65 doors. I said, "I don't even think we should keep this open. What's the point? It's a liability. I'm not into it. Let's just close it." So, we didn't, we kept it as a self-sustaining thing, but we didn't try to grow it. Then my remaining employee went to a maternity leave and I was doing her job for a couple of months which I learned that I hated doing her job. I'm glad I have employees. I like working on the business and not in the business. Luckily, we were at the point where we were able to have employees and I don't really have to deal with day to day of tenants and all that. I did her job for a couple of months and during that period I thought to myself, "This is a good business. This is a good business to be in. This is viable." I was so used to the rollercoaster of brokerage income, it's feast or famine. Jason: Yeah. Robin: And the property management company had always been in the background if between commissions or something like that. I thought, "why don't I flip it? Why don't I flip the script and focus on the property management company and then put the brokerage on the side?" My husband saw you speak somewhere on the internet, came across you and your videos and said, "You got to check this out." Historically, there's been a lot of "check this out", "we got to try this system" so I'm skeptic with systems and coaches, I always have been. I saw one video of yours and I said, "Yes, I'm in." Jason: That’s it. You have been super skeptic and one video was all you needed. Robin: One video and I said, "I'm in. Let's check him out." Jason: What did I do in that video? Robin: I don't know. I wish I knew which one it was. Jason: It's good. I got to do more of that video. Robin: That one, yeah. Jason: Yeah. Robin: We joined up with you and we were willing because we wanted the property management to grow. It’s like, I have this company already and we already have clients, it's something that I can grow from. I was committed and I said, "Whatever needs to happen." We went through all of the training. If I needed to change the name, we ended up changing the logo for you guys. I would have changed the name. I would have done anything. I said, "I'm completely committed to this system. I'm willing to do whatever it takes. Let's go." We did the website. I think before we even did the website or maybe in conjunction, I don't know how it works, but we did GatherKudos and that was huge. Jason: Yeah, [...] on the reviews. Robin: Yes, that was huge. That's been a huge help for us still. We have people that say, "Oh my god. I just saw your reviews." We started asking tenants and owners to review us. Sometimes you have to ask several times for people to review you. Dana, who works for me in the office, she's always trying. She's very good at getting people to review us. She's like a dog on a bone that she said, "You said you we're going to review us. Review us. Review us." So that's good. Jason: Yeah, good. You started going through a process. Robin: Yeah. Jason: The one thing I really loved about you guys as clients is I made mistakes in the past in attracting clients that are really opinionated because I was being very opinionated to the marketplace. Robin: Okay. Jason: But somehow you guys came through and were amazing clients. You guys were the type of clients that I really wanted because you were open to doing things differently. You were open to trying stuff. That's the type of person that I am. I'm very much like an open-minded person and so I'm getting better at putting out more of an open-minded message to attract those types of clients because we attract really well what we put out there. You guys came to me and you were willing to put in the work and you guys trusted the process. Those are the clients that get the biggest results and that's always really exciting to see a client get results, doing what you say that you asked them to do, I feel like when my clients come on, they are putting a lot of faith in us. Robin: Right. Jason: Whether you are a business owner or coaching client of mine and if they put that faith in you, that's a secret thing, I think, in business. I think that's why when your husband came to me—I don't even remember what he said off the top of my head—but he said something like, "You changed my life," or something like that. Robin: I think it was something like that because it's true. Jason: Yeah. I think as entrepreneurs—or at least the type of entrepreneurs I really like to work with—that's really the core of who we are. We want to make a difference. Some entrepreneurs, maybe you can call them entrepreneurs, they have business in which all they want to make money. Robin: Right. Jason: They are not really concerned about solving the problem, but real business exists to solve the problem. Property managers solve the real problem. Robin: Right. Jason: I think a lot of them are very much enjoy people who are contribution-focused. That really was great to watch you guys go through and trust that. You guys asked a lot of questions. Robin: Yeah. Jason: A lot of questions, good questions, then you guys took action. You guys did stuff. You did the things that I told you to do. Robin: Yeah. Jason: You did a lot of different things. You’ve gone from saying, "It's a liability. Let's just close it down," to saying, "Hey, maybe there's something here." To getting coaching, to going through a process, cleaning up your reputation, working on your website, working on your pricing model, working on your sales process, working on your prospecting methods. You've really gone through all of that and then we started getting on the operational things, figuring out your team a little bit, figuring how to get you in alignment with your business that wasn't so uncomfortable. Robin: Right. Jason: Because it was, it was uncomfortable for you at some times. Robin: Yes. It was. Jason: I think we've all been there. I remember some calls of you where you were like, "How do I get this one team member to do things the way that I want them to do?" Robin: Right. Jason: "I want things to be this way." Your perspective shifted really quickly after that. Robin: Oh, I did. Yeah. I've learned a lot. Jason: How do you feel like your business is now? How does it feel different now having gone through all that? Robin: We have no jerk's policy. You were talking about the kind of clients that you want to attract and it's the same. Life's too short. We've had some clients that are just not great and we let them go. That takes some faith in the system because it'd be easy for me to say, "I have a staff. They can deal with this person. I don't have to deal with him. I'm just going to keep them because of the income." But that's not really the culture that I want. I don't want unhappy employees to hate me because I keep bad clients on. We've attracted so many just really cool, nice people who get it. There's people that just don't. They don't get it. They don't see the value of property management. They maybe have self-managing for a long time and they don't see the value, but there are other people that do, and those are the people we want to work with. We've really streamlined our criteria about the kind of clientele we want, the kind of properties that we want to manage. We manage several HOAs. We don't manage them anymore. They had their separate challenges that weren't really working for our business model and so we let all of them go. That's income, but it's been replaced. It’s come back around. You were talking about relationships. You said to us, "Your property management company will be a place where you get referrals for your brokerage." I've got one in escrow right now that we’ve managed for a couple of years. Another one that we managed that were evicting a tenant and putting on the market. It is true that the property management company has been an interesting gateway to the brokerage business which has sort of become my side hustle, if you will, not my main thing. Jason: Yeah. It's a good side hustle. Robin: Yeah. Jason: One of the things that I point out to clients, and for those listening, I think it's very easy for us as business owners to fall into having the business that we can create or that we can have. Having the types of businesses that we can serve instead of having the business that we really want and the clients that we really want. Robin: Right. Jason: It's such a slight distinction and such an easy trap to fall into. It's similar to what I said outside of this is that, ultimately, I think what happens to clients is that we help them understand not just who they want to really work with, but who they don't want to work with. Then when they get that clarity and we then engineer the sales process and the reputation process, your pricing, and everything around who you really want then the message creates and attracts the right type of clients or tells the wrong type of clients, and so you are now attracting the right type of clients. I think a lot of property managers are hearing you and they just don't believe it. They’re hearing you say, "Our clients are great. We love them. They are easy. "And they’re like, "She's smoking something." They don’t get it because they’re feeling, "I know. I talk to people every day." And they’re like, "I hate this business sometimes. It's crazy. I'm struggling. We are dealing with people who are like we have to replace one door every time we get a door on." Really, it’s that they’re putting out the wrong type of energy, message, or perception or they’re focusing on the wrong type of audience and they don't see that it's possible. This sounds like a pipe dream to them. How would you explain that to somebody that's sitting where you were two or three years ago? Robin: It does sound like a pipe dream, doesn't it? It does sound a little bit scary to start trusting the process and that you will get new doors on if you let go of some. I'm a firm believer of that kind of energy anyway. You let go of some things and they are going to be replaced by something better anyway. I'm a firm believer in that kind of energy, but you might not be able to let go. Let's say you start doing the process and you start to GatherKudos and you start getting more clients. Then you'll be able to slowly maybe let go of the worst ones to replace it with better ones. You've got to trust the process. That's the thing and it's an empty card. I think a lot of times in this business, I've seen it in brokerage, and I'm sure it happens in every business, people get desperate and they accept treatment from clients they don't really want to accept, but they get desperate. We've had people call us and other people will do it for less. [...]. I mean, go ahead. I saw somebody on one of the DoorGrow threads say, "If you want peanuts, you're going to get monkeys or something." It was essentially like. Jason: If you’re working for peanuts, yeah. Robin: Right because that's what you pay for. Jason: [...] monkey if you’re working for peanuts. Robin: Right. There's a lot of people that would do it for less, go ahead. If that's your main thing, is somebody who would, "What the price is?” I mean, I was telling my husband, I said, "I've never gone in the hair salon and said, okay, how much?" It's more of what can you do and then how much. Don't you want to know what the product is? I have these people call me the other day and they had a litany of questions. I was being peppered with questions. I finally said, "It sounds like you guys have a lot of questions, maybe we can set up a meeting." They were just hammering me on pricing and I said, "Maybe we’re not a fit." It's okay to walk away, you are not going to fit with everyone. Jason: Probably the people that ask endless litany of questions, they're usually really looking for an excuse not to work with you... Robin: Right. Jason: ...especially if they know that your pricing is higher. They're looking, "There's got to be a reason I want to work with these guys, give me an excuse. Oh, you guys don't do that one little thing? Hahaha. I have my excuse. Now, I can avoid this leap that I was going to take working with a coach, working with this business, or whatever. I can avoid that and I can stay in my mediocrity. I can stay in my stuff. I can stay in my dysfunction." I mean, there might be people that call you up asking about your business and they really just want to self-manage. They're just looking for an excuse why is it too expensive or too bad of an idea, or why can't I not trust them so that I can hold onto this moldy peanuts and [...] a monkey and keep my hand in the monkey trap. They want to hold on to it. They don't want to let go and they are looking at you to give them a reason. I love when people play tug of war game with me. Robin: Right. Jason: My favorite thing in the tug of war game is to let go of the rope. Robin: Right, exactly. Jason: And watch them fall on their ass and then they are sitting there holding on going, "Why won’t you play with me? Why won’t you fight me on this?" "I don’t need to, I don’t need to play that game." Let’s get into the changes that you’ve made. Your business from where it is now in almost every way is different. Robin: Right. Jason: What changes did we go through? Did you mess with your branding? Robin: The logo. Jason: Okay. We did change something to do with branding. Then we go into the reputation stuff you mentioned. And you guys also have process now reaching out to people, and stuff like that. Or it’s gotten [...] for you? Robin: We used LeadSimple. I tried so many different things just to make our systems better as you bring on more doors, you have a quality problem of how do you manage everything. The system of bringing them on board and all of that. I’ve actually just been working, finessing our onboarding process. Our BDM wouldn’t get all of the necessary information. The BDM just wants the signature on the contract. Jason: Right. "Let’s get the deal, let’s close it." Robin: I realized, "You go get that signature, I’ll get the rest of the stuff." I’ll send them a welcome email with all the things that we need, and that has really worked out well for us. Jason: You’ve also revamped your pricing, right? You went through significant change there. You revamped your sales process, which you’re talking about right now. Robin: Right. Jason: Making significant changes there in optimizing that. How about the methods for feeding this funnel and prospecting methods? Robin: I’ll talk about a couple of things that have worked for us, and then something that haven’t worked for us because I’ve tried everything. Something that’s very, very simple is that when you have a business, whatever it is, you need people to know what you do. Especially in property management, my local area, there are people that sell products that can sell to a nationwide audience, that’s not what I do. I am managing properties in my local area. I think focusing on that type of local people that are local professionals that know what I do, and that can refer business to me. We do a lot of speaking engagements. We have Dan [...] presentation and then we have one that we’re doing right now that we’ve done a couple of times that is some before and afters because we do a lot with clients that have maybe inherited a property or bought something at a discount that needs to completely be rehabbed. We’ve worked through a lot of those. We’ve some before and afters and we talk about the clients getting more money in their pocket every month now because of turning the units. We got a client that inherited a property that his mother had owned and she had kept the rents the same for years. One bedroom was getting a month. It’s now getting . Jason: Wow. Robin: How can you argue with that? Jason: That’s what sells. What really sells, what people want to buy are results. Robin: Exactly. That’s why that presentation has been so successful, it’s black and white, it’s the numbers, it’s the before and after pictures, it’s the before and after rent rolls. It shows clients, when we manage their properties, and we have a lot of guys that work for us that can do the turns. We do a lot of it. We can discuss a lot of business. We have a lot of vendors that give us great deals. It’s been really beneficial for our clients. Doing this speaking engagement gets us out there and has people see what we do. That’s been very beneficial. I go to events, I’m really the only property management company there. There’s no other property management company that show up to these events that I go to. In general networking event, I don’t really seem to get much out of those. In our area, we have the realtor referral program on our website, we don’t get anything. I don’t know if it’s because the realtors in our area, they’re doing one-offs, kind of they’ve got one deal and that’s it, you never hear from them again or in LA County you make so make so much money on one deal that our little referral, they don’t care, they’re not interested. Jason: Not as enticing. Ultimately, having a relationship with real estate agents is what works... Robin: Right. Jason: ...and nurturing relationship long term. That’s really what works there. You mentioned before and after and how effective that is. Let’s paint a picture of your before and after for your business that helps me out. Let’s look at this. Before, when you came to me, you were 50, 60 units? Robin: I want to say it was 65 doors, 64 doors, right there. Jason: Okay. And then where you guys at now? Robin: Right around 200. Jason: Oh my gosh. So, 200 doors. How many doors were you adding when you were at the 65? What was the sort of the challenge then? What was the typical growth rate? Robin: Nothing. The growth rate was a negative. We were losing. We weren’t doing anything. The company was just in the other room on its own and we weren’t doing anything to try to grow it. Jason: No growth. That’s 65 doors and now, if you guys were at about 200 doors under management, what sort of the growth rate still like? How many doors you add in typically in a month on average? Robin: Typically, a month, 2-5. Jason: Okay. Steadily. If that’s the case then you must be retaining doors a lot longer. Robin: We always have. Our retention rate is really a lot longer I think than the stats I’ve heard in the industry. We’ve done well with that. Jason: Which [...] targeting better owners, or owners that are not just accidentals that are going to fold after a year. Robin: Right. I find the single family is what we like to target and the small multi-family. We do manage some properties, that’s why 2-5 a month, sometimes that’s not necessarily doors that’s properties, some of those properties might have 4 units. Jason: Oh, okay. Robin: We’ve taken on some larger multi-family. We actually started in multi-family. Jason: [...] a year typically on average adding a month maybe is what, maybe about 10? Robin: It may be. Depending. Sometimes it’s just five single family. It just depends on the month. A lot of times though because we’re doing so much prospecting, we have so many in the pipe that somebody I’ve been talking to for four months comes on, that kind of thing. That works well. Jason: That [...] nurture process. Robin: I just found that people that have the 25-unit buildings and things like that, they want you to run your business the way they want you to run it. I had a guy come and talk to us. We do all of our statements, there’s an owner portal, we email them, we don’t do a paper statement, and he wanted a bound paper statement every month, so his wife could read it. I said, "Too bad, we don’t do that." Jason: Could you imagine if you had 20 of those to do a month? Robin: Exactly. Jason: 50 of those to do a month? Robin: They seem to want special treatment so you really have to set your boundaries and know what you’re willing to accept. There’s always negotiation. It’s business. There’s always a bending. You might think, "Well, this is so worth it. You know what, I will lower my price on this or that, or I will do something out of the ordinary." But for the most part, you really have to stick to your guns and know what you’re willing to accept. That works for us. Jason: Works for me too. I love hearing about you and your husband’s successes. It’s really great to see you. I appreciate you coming on the show and hanging out with me. It’s great to hear that you guys are 200 doors and having growth. You guys are headed into what I call the second [...]. That’s the 200-400 doors and this is where now you’re dealing with processes and staff, and building a team. You’ve got some new challenges ahead. Maybe we’ll be talking soon. Robin: Okay, good. Jason: [...] challenges. It’s really great to see your success. Shameless plug, for those that are considering maybe working with me, doing the seed program, maybe they’re skeptical, or they’ve heard mixed reviews. What would you say to them about me, what’s your perception of me and DoorGrow? Robin: I can’t say enough positive things about you and DoorGrow. It has truly changed our business. If you have a property management company, if you’re starting a property management company, especially if you’re starting one, there’s not so much clean up that you’ll have to do. Do it right from the beginning. Jason is very genuine. He’s a good human being. That’s important. We trust you, we really care about you and you care about us, and we’ve had a two-year relationship with you and we know you’re there for us. We’ve seen the results. Not only that, for me, it was hard for me to trust the results, and trust that they were going to keep coming, and they have. You don’t just get a new DoorGrow website and have a seat and have everything come to you. That’s not how it works, but it’s all of these different pieces that starts to funnel business your way. Jason: I tell potential clients or even clients, it’s the last 10% of dialling in things that give you 90% of the results. Robin: That makes sense. Jason: It’s that last 10%. For example, they’ll do the website, but they don’t get faces on there, they don’t get the social proof. They’re missing just a couple little pieces. I have the whole website, that’s 90%. But they’re missing the little pieces that create that trust or ticket to the next level. How I built my business, and how I built the entire program is built around the idea of trusts. Trust is what sells and the fact that you came on board and trusted me, allowed me to help you create a business that creates trust. It sounds like you’re putting out a lot of trust for the industry and property management industry in your market which I think is awesome as well. You’re changing the perception of property management. There’s a lack of trust. For those that are listening, pay attention to this, people that are not signing up with you that you feel like should be, it’s not because they distrust you, it’s because you haven’t created enough trust for them to pick you over your competition. You just haven’t created enough trust. It’s not that they’re walking around just distrusting everybody. Maybe they are, maybe the property management industry has earned a bad reputation in some ways. But I think more than that, it’s that you haven’t created enough trust. It’s about creating that trust. Anyway, I honor you for your growth. You did all of these. You did it. I just pointed, and you and your husband deserves all the props for making this happen. Robin: Thank you. Jason: Really, you guys have done some phenomenal things. Like you said earlier, “I tried everything.” You have the tenacity. And I gave you ideas, but you tried things, you tried everything out. You did, you trusted the process but you experimented and that’s really what entrepreneurs do. That’s how business works. Robin: Yeah. We’re still tweaking. You mentioned the website. Jason: Always. Robin: I just took the website quiz again last week. I got a B. There’s a couple of things we need to tweak. Jason: I have a new training called Website Secrets that you got to watch. Robin: Right. Jason: And we’re getting to an A. Robin: Yeah, exactly! I know exactly what we need to do and it’s just getting with your team and making those tweaks. Jason: Make sure you watch the training because some of my questions in DoorGrow secrets or in the DoorGrow score quiz. Robin: I will. Jason: If anyone wants to grade their website, you can go to doorgrow.com/quiz and take a test to grade your website, how effective it is to creating trust and getting conversions, but some of the questions are backwards. You think you’re saying, “Yes, I’m going to get this, and I need to add this for my website.” It’s a trick, it’s like the reverse. I didn’t really explain which ones are right and which ones are wrong, I’m just asking do you have this and then it gives you a grade in the end. You’re on the inside. I’ve seen people go and implement a bunch of changes, thinking they could just go off the quiz and then it’s just [...] they can clear things up. Cool. Robin, really great to see you again. I’m excited to hear about your continuing success and what [...] big and brighter future with Concept 360 Property Management. Robin: Thank you. Thank you so much. Jason: Alright. I’ll let Robin go. Really great to connect with her. Always exciting to see and share in the winds with clients. Man, I would love to take all the credit, but my best clients, all the ones that are in my case studies that you guys can see back onto the doorgrow.com/case-studies, these are clients that they trusted the process, but they did the work. They did the work. This is a secret, there’s no company that you can just go hand them money and they’re going to give you contracts. We don’t do that. Marketing agencies can’t do that. The best they can give you, most agencies with cold leads, we’re going to help you build system so that your business grows more organically, that it’s easier that we put gasoline on the fire that works in the sense you which is word of mouth and we optimize your business towards that. If you are struggling to grow, if you are maybe what Robin was in the beginning saying, "It’s a liability, let’s just close it. I’m burnt out, I’m stressed out. I’m not getting any younger." I’ve heard these phrases from clients. Get on the phone with DoorGrow or start with our case studies, go to doorgrow.com/case-studies and just start there. If you go there, there is a free training—it really is the beginning of our program, I give it out for free. There is a link you can click on to watch free training about DoorGrow Secrets. It’s going to share with you concepts like the cycle of suck, the 4Ds to revenue, cold leads versus warm leads, the myth of SEO, so that you can be a more savvy educated person with marketing and growing your business. If you decide that we can help you out, I would love to do that. If you feel like you are a right fit, you are open-minded, you’re the right type of client, I would love and be honored to be able to work with you and coach you and help you grow your company. Again, thanks Robin for coming on the show. Until next time, everybody to our mutual growth. Bye everyone. You just listened to the DoorGrow Show. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet, in the DoorGrow Club. Join your fellow DoorGrow hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead, content, social, direct mail, and they still struggle to grow. At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today’s episode on our blog at doorgrow.com. To get notified of future events and news, subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow hacking your business and your life. This document has been edited with the instant web content composer. The online instant HTML converter make a great resource that will help you a lot in your work. Save this link or add it to your bookmarks.  

Keirsten's Social Media!! Twitter: @traprecruiter Facebook: @traprecruiter LinkedIn: @traprecruiter Instagram: @traprecruiter Keirsten's Resources!! One of the things that I offer through Trap Recruiter, LLC is career coaching. I will offer a 20% discount on for say, 10 of your listeners. If they sign up for career coaching sessions. Jason Hello, and welcome to the cavnessHR podcast. I'm your host Jason Cavness. Our guest today i Keirsten Greggs. Keirsten are you ready to be great today Keirsten I am. Jason Keisten is a talent acquisition consultant and career coach. In 2017 she founded Trap Recruiter LLC. A small business committed to bridging the gap between the job seeker and organizations committed to tracking hiring, developing and retaining diverse talent and fostering inclusive, equitable cultures. During her 19 year career, she has implemented creative recruiting strategies for Defense Intelligence, federal and civilian contract portfolio. That accumulated a full range of talent acquisition experience, including full lifecycle recruiting, executive hiring, talent acquisition operations, training, development and delivering. Talent acquisition, Product Management, college recruiting, internal staffing. Always focused on relationship building. she engages with a broader audience via her blog as a guest speaker and as a guest in various podcasts, facilitating workshops and training Keirsten, thank you for being here today. I really appreciate it. Keirsten Thank you for having me. Jason What are you focused on now? Keirsten Right now I do focus primarily on a contract that I have with a company to staff their global trade compliance group. So that is my quote unquote, nine to five job, that will be your regular full lifecycle recruiting. Then I still do some of my independent things on the side. I am grateful and so very thankful that this company is very amenable to my schedule, allowing me to continue to do Trap Recruiter work as long as their good work is completed. Jason A lot of recruiters like have a niche, they only do construction or tech. But it's like you have a broad and general based recruiter. Keirsten Initially, I was a tech recruiter, because I started in 1999. Because of the area that I live in, a lot of companies were popping up and the way that I got into government contracting, was that the company that was one of our customers. They actually did not have a recruiting department. So they brought three of us over to be their internal recruiters instead of paying us that heavy fee that they paid for each hire. So then they just paid us salaries, then it saves them a lot of money. Somehow I transitioned that into the more Intel space, or the Intel portfolios for the companies that I worked for. But again, that work was very broad. It could be in a executive hire, it could be a contracts person, it could be a security person, it could, it could be an IT person or an engineer. So the only difference was, in a lot of cases, I was adding a clearance to the requirements for the jobs I was hiring against. Jason Keirsten, you do both defense and civilian recruiting, correct? Keirsten Yes. Jason So what are some of the differences between the two is one easier or more challenging? Keirsten Defense is definitely more challenging. Again, because you only have so many folks that are not only used to the culture of a defense contractor. Especially, when you're talking about people that are going to be sitting on site at a government site, or at a military installation. So that is a little bit more difficult when you add the caveat that they not only have to know the programs, and the little nuances of the culture, but they also have to have a security clearance Jason Can you explain your passion for recruiting? Keirsten I love helping people, there is a wonderful feeling that you get when you help someone get a job. I know what it's like to be unemployed. I didn't at the time that I started recruiting. I thought it was going to be more like a sales type of thing. I had this idea, the same that I think we see on memes now where you know, it's like what people think I do. It's like this lavish lifestyle, we're on boats, and yachts drinking champagne, and that's not really it. We really are doing work. So I had this idea of what it was going to be like to be a technical recruiter. But the more I got into the actual strategy of it, being a relationship builder, building trust, helping people get a job. Creating the organizational culture with the people that I was hiring, making sure I was hiring the best talent that we could. That's what really, you know, drives me and gets me excited every single day, Jason What do most job candidates get wrong about working with a recruiter, Keirsten Sometimes they can be a little bit abusive. Sometimes, if recruiters don't set boundaries, or if they try to be everything to everyone, and that's not just the candidates, but the hiring managers, or the customers that they're supporting, recruiters can sometimes get burned out. They think that we don't have anything else to do but attend to them. Jason So some of them are expecting 24, seven access to you and that's not a reality, that's not realistic. Keirsten It's not realistic, and I do my best, as I've gotten older and more mature to really be the one that sets those boundaries and cuts the lines of communication after a certain time. Because people will try to have access to you 100%. Especially, now you can email me which used to be the only way where you could call me and then we have cell phones. So you can call me on my cell phone, you can call me at work, you can text me, you can email me. Now you can reach out to me on social media and tell everybody in the world that I did not respond to you in a manner that you know, as timely as you would like. Now you've embarrassed me, and you probably talked yourself out of a job because maybe I was busy. I just didn't get to you yet. Or maybe your timeline wasn't my timeline. There's a lot of ways that a recruiter has to be very, very aware of how they are managing their time and the people that have access to it. Jason I have to think if a candidate has a recruiter on their side, that's really the best thing for them. Because everyone will change jobs eventually. If you have a recruiter on your side. They call you and say, I'm probably leaving my job in six months. That has to be a value add for that person, I would think. Keirsten It definitely is. I think the biggest challenge that I have, from speaking in general terms. There are always those one offs, but it's with the people that know me personally, and my family is the ones that take the most advantage. Because I get crazy requests of things to do because I have certain accesses to stuff and I'm just like, no, that's not appropriate. Like, don't ask me to do that. I'm not doing that for you. Or, you know what, I don't have time to do that right now. Because I do actually have a job that makes me do the things that you're asking me to do. Jason Keirsten how often is it that a hiring manager gives you a job to fill. You send them some candidates based on the requirements and then the hiring manager says that they are changing the requirements. How often does that happen? Keirsten A lot. It happens a lot in organizations that are new, and I'm working in an organization as 100% new. I was actually hired to staff the organization completely. That group of people I should say because it is a large company, but this group is new. So there is not a lot of confidence in what they need. Because there's no precedent already set and the things that went wrong with the previous group there. I think they're far too focused on not repeating those mistakes. That they're not really looking at what went right and what can we replicate? How can we move things forward quickly. So it happens to me, unfortunately, a great deal where I'm revising things. I'm redoing things, most of the time, it's because of the level of the position that they described. They put out one thing, and I think they want it to get away lot of responses, or see what they get back. There's a lot of that, what will I get back, they cast a wider net, and then they start to draw it in. When we do find the right person, we end up having to do a lot of administrative work in the background to correct the level of the position. It is one of my pet peeves in recruiting because you don't level people, I feel like you level up level positions. Jason Most of the companies that start off hire the people they know. But that person probably isn't the best person to do marketing and they usually hire people that look like them. Keirsten Yes. Jason How do you convince people that maybe your best buds not the best marketing person. Maybe look for other people who don't look like you. How do you convince people to do that? Keirsten It's not easy. We talk a great deal about diversity, inclusion, and equity today, every single day. I have added. I believe in deliberate diversity, I believe in intentional inclusion. I think a lot of people are deliberate in wanting to have a diverse workforce. They're intentional in going to diversity, job fairs, or reaching out to veteran organizations or going to different conferences. Bringing in interns every summer. So they're intentional, but they don't empower and allow for equity to come into the organization. So that's why they lose a number of their diversity hires Whey can't retain diversity hires at the rate that they would like, and why the workforce remains, you know, very, very, very, for lack of a better term. Vanilla. Jason Tell us something about owning your own business that you did not expect. Keirsten I did not expect to do so much work that has nothing to do with recruiting. I have always been adamant that I did not want to be branded as a recruiting agency. But there are so many things that go into owning a business, but I just was not prepared for and I just was not ready for. Jason So from your point of view, what makes someone a great recruiter? Keirsten Number one, I think passion for recruiting, you really have to, to love it, you have to have a very thick skin. You have to be able to change your course very quickly. You're not going to be able to follow a script every single day. You're not going to be able to be a to z one to 10 methodical, methodical every single day. You are going to have to change your priorities over and over and over again. If you can become okay with that, with having multiple personality disorder and OCD pressed upon you, then you're going to be a great recruiter. Jason Keirsten how often or what percentage do people ask you to do something unethical? or illegal? How often does that happen? As a recruiter. Keirsten I don't get those because I come from an environment that was highly bureaucratic. Where we did have to follow a lot of rules. Sometimes I felt like there was a lot of self imposed governance that I myself was trying to get away from. Trying to get around to make my life a little bit easier, not that I was doing anything unethical or illegal. But I think some of the controls that we put into the process can sometimes make things more difficult than they should be. I don't get any outright blatant requests to do something illegal. If I get something that is unethical or that it's out of compliance, I'll say that is probably the word that I will use. If I get something that that's not compliant, we'll make it compliant. If at all possible, for example, we know that we want to hire Joe Smith for this role. But our policies and procedures say that we have to interview three people. So we interview three other people and we do that. But I'm also the one that's trying to make people be aware that no, I didn't give you just three people that I know you weren't going to hire. I gave people that could either build the pipeline or them may knock Joe Smith, out of the running for this position. I'm going to do my due diligence. So I don't allow any, anyone any organization to put me in a situation where I don't feel like I'm being morally sound. Now, I won't do that. Jason So from my point of view, I think it's easier to find a job nowadays. The reason because before when I was coming up, it was newspaper ads? But nowadays you can go to the website. Companies advertise jobs on Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram. There are all these places people can find jobs. So do you think it is easier or harder for people to find jobs now? Keirsten I think it's easier for people to get connected to companies. But it's not necessarily easy to fill the jobs. But if we're not filling them with the right people. I think it's, it's up to the organization's to make sure that we are doing enough to say what kind of workforce we're going to want in the future, not just for today. Jason Keirsten in your time in recruiting? What have you seen the candidates consistently do wrong? Then what do you do when you see the companies do wrong when trying to fill those jobs? Keirsten Candidates, I think they sometimes for me, they oversell just because of the industry that I'm in. I think they oversell themselves. They put too much on the organization in terms of what they're going to do for them. I think organizations are a little bit naive in the sense that they don't think that employees will ever leave them or that the employee needs them. So they're like you need I think that's the change that's happened in the workforce completely is that it's no more of what can you do for me, it's what can I do for you? Jason I mean, at will works both ways, right? Keirsten It does. Jason Can you talk a little bit how recruiters are paid? Keirsten Well, I have been a corporate recruiter most of my life, so I was paid like an employee. You get bonuses for meeting goals. There are third party recruiters that can be retained for specific roles. They would get a percentage of the higher salary paid by the organization. There are recruiters that get paid by job seekers to help them find a job who actually go out and look for jobs for them. There are recruiters who are on retainer who make a monthly or quarterly amount for supporting an organization and giving them candidates across different positions. Then there are recruiters who help people who supply contingent workers or temporary workers. They get paid a percentage of a person's bill rate, they get a bill rate, and they end that company pays the employee, Jason I'm guessing the best method depends on the recruiter and another variables. Keirsten It depends on number one the position. So there's an abundance, you will always have work filling, manual labor jobs. There's a lot of those, and it helps the organization and it helps, those third party recruiters stay employed to hire their people on a temporary basis. Especially, when you don't have an organization that's very competent in their hiring practices. It's better to do that, that temp to perm type of deal. So that you get to try and buy before you commit to the person. Those companies are the ones that are doing the work for you. So you again, they are they're keeping a pipeline. If Joe Smith doesn't work out, then they can send Amy Jones. Jason Keirsten, I understand you have something for our listeners today. Keirsten Yes. So one of the things that I offer through Trap Recruiter, LLC is career coaching. I will offer a 20% discount on for say, 10 of your listeners. If they sign up for career coaching sessions. Jason Keirsten, can you share your social media with us so people can reach out to you? Keirsten I can be found everywhere. Twitter, LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook. Did I miss any? @traprecruiter Jason For our listeners will have the links her gift offer and her social media links at www.cavnessHRblog.com Keirsten we are coming to the end of our talk. Can you provide our listeners any last minute advice on any subject you want to cover? Keirsten For recruiters, I want to encourage all of us to please just be good people. We are the ones who are creating the culture and organizations. If we aren't doing our due diligence and bringing in the best people and doing good hiring practices. Then we are going to continue to have trash garbage companies like we have now. So let's just be better people. Let's not continue bad behaviors that we see all over an let's try and change the perception of what a recruiter is. Jason Keirsten, thank for your time today. I really appreciate it. You have done a lot of great things for everyone. Thank you very much. Keirsten Thank you. Jason To our listeners. Thank you for your time as well and remember to be great every day. Be sure to connect with us on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, Instagram, Twitch, YouTube and TikTok at cavnessHR. Also check out our weekly live streams at the cavnessHR Facebook, Twitch, YouTube and Periscope, where we focus each week on an entire topic important for small business. Every Wednesday at 9 am PST. To join our weekly HR email newsletter list. Send us an email to jasoncavness@cavness.com Thank you and remember to be great every day. See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

I'm super pumped about my interview today! I have none other than Jason How, an expert marketer and business entrepreneur who runs a successful agency, training and consulting company. We're coming in live with Jason from Singapore and me in Los Angeles today. Jason just came back to his home office (Singapore) from a 6-week trip to USA & Canada. Turn up the volume - and you'll learn why clients seek him out, engage his company and hard working expert team to drive traffic, leads and sales via Facebook, Google and organic media. Listen to Jason's full story and how he got started, and why he doesn't necessarily recommend taking that approach today. Lots of golden nuggets here, including Facebook advertising, business strategy development, agency SOPs and things you can do to get started. Here are some extracts: Can you tell me a bit about what you do at the company? We help Education companies get more students by generating enrollment inquiries and appointments. We also make them the prominent choice for students with some wicked smart retargeting strategies. Filling pipelines with Facebook & digital marketing - What are the steps you take to get started with a new project? Step 1: Brand search - Google, Bing Step 2: Retargeting - begin the "know, like, trust" process Step 3: Deeper engagement - email capture, nurturing, tagging, CRM Step 4: Reporting - Supermetrics, Google Data Studio, custom reports One big mistake you made along the way? Not investing in myself, people, and relationships early enough. Thinking that I could build an empire on my own back. Big mistake and wasted a lot of time. Where to reach Jason? https://agencyj.co/  (new version coming soon) https://www.facebook.com/askjasonhow -- If you want to connect with me, reach out here: https://jonrognerud.com/calendar   P.S. Want to be interviewed on the podcast? Reach out!

Are you tired of dorm food and want to avoid the mad rush of finding a place to live off campus before next semester? There’s got to be an easier way for students to rent houses and apartments. It’s a problem that many entrepreneurs have tried to solve.  Today, I am talking to Dave Spooner of Innago. There are few incentives for landlords to digitize their rentals. Landlord demand for a listing platform is low, but there definitely is high demand for better tools to effectively manage and communicate with tenants.  You’ll Learn... [02:50] Tenant Management Software: Making landlords lives easier with online rental payments, tracking payments, basic accounting, lease signing, and tenant screening.  [04:14] Understanding Innago: Flexible, effective, simple, and intuitive software for landlords and property managers.  [06:05] Learning Curve: Competitors’ software requires expertise and certification. [07:32] Who wants to waste time adopting ugly software?  [08:58 #1 Priority: Intuitiveness in software; speed is love language. [10:20] Different portals for different people to be more productive. [12:16] Find balance, and avoid too fast feature creep. [13:14] Possible future integration with Zapier and other third-party tools? [14:22] FAQs: Access permissions and pricing for landlords and tenants. [17:25] Innago offers unique and unmatched level of support. Tweetables Innago software is flexible, effective, simple, and intuitive. You shouldn't need a certification to use property management software. Choose features that matter, and get the biggest bang for your buck.  Big believers in early success begets future success.  Resources Innago Buildium AppFolio Propertyware Rent Manager.  Jason Fried of Basecamp Zapier 1099 Form Freshdesk HubSpot Intercom DGS 62: Property Management Accounting with Taylor Hou DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrowLive DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrow Website Score Quiz Transcript Jason: Welcome DoorGrow Hackers to another DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you're open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow Hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the unique challenges, daily variety, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you're crazy for doing it, you think they're crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate high trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses, and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change the perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I'm your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let's get into the show.  Today's guest, I'm hanging out here with Dave Spooner of Innago’s. Dave, welcome to the DoorGrow Show. Dave: Hi Jason, thanks so much for having me. Jason: It's great to have you. Dave, we always like to get into our guest first, help us understand who Dave is, and how you kind of got into the space that you're in, and give us a little background. Dave: Yeah, absolutely, I'd be happy to, and thanks for the intro. I graduated from university in 2013. I kind of already had that entrepreneur spirit. Me and a couple other folks got together and we wanted to solve the problem of finding a place to live. We're not the first people to try to solve it, and I'm sure we won't be the last to try to solve it, but we want to make it easier for students to rent houses and apartments off campus. A lot of those markets are still mostly or fully offline, and there's usually a mad rush to try and find a place to live. We recognize those issues and we tried to solve them. As we were going about doing that, we kind of quickly realized that there's not a lot of incentives for landlords to digitize their portfolio. There's not a lot of incentives for landlords in student housing to really do a whole heck of a lot, but helps the students out because they're already going to fill other properties, which is really high occupancy in student housing.  We kind of pivoted, and listened to the market, and realized that there wasn't a huge demand on the landlord side for this listing platform, but there was a lot of demand for better tools to manage tenants, and better tools to manage and communicate with those tenants, and to manage their businesses. That's kind of how I got my foundation. I worked on that listing platform for a few years, learned a lot about the market, and then myself and the CTO of that company started and founded Innago in 2017, and we've been hard at work trying to make lives easier for landlords ever since. Jason: How do you make lives easier for landlords? Dave: Innago is tenant management software, and we call it tenant management software instead of property management software because we really believe that the focus should be on managing tenants, managing those relationships, and managing those personalities. Innago, of course, includes a lot of your classic property management tools like online rental payments, tracking payments, basic accounting, online lease signing, tenant screening, etcetera. But at its heart, it's a communication platform. It's something that makes it easier to interact with and manage those tenants. We believe that having that, having that foundation enables landlords to become better landlords, and property managers become better property managers. Jason: I haven't heard of the software before, is this something that there's a good amount of property managers already using? Is this geared towards landlords, or is this geared towards property management businesses? Help me and the listeners understand Innago here. Dave: Yeah, absolutely. We work with both. We work with landlords as small as one unit, and landlords in the thousands of units. The software is really flexible, it’s effective, but it's also simple and intuitive for somebody who just owns some properties on the side, works a normal nine-to-five, and then manages at nights and on weekends, and for a landlord or property manager that's fully dedicated. We work with both property managers and landlords. We predominantly work in the residential space. We do a lot of student housing landlords, given my background, and my partner's background. We also have some commercial landlords as well. It's a really powerful, and flexible tool, and we work with all sorts of different clients. Jason: Cool, that's exciting. Help people understand, because a lot of the listeners in our audience probably already have a property management software, I mean, probably likely. They're probably already with Buildium, AppFolio, Propertyware, maybe Rent Manager. They're probably with one of these guys. But nobody's ever fully happy with their property management. Dave: Right, of course. Jason: So help those listening, how can they see where you fit into the market in relation to these? Dave: Well, yeah, it's funny you say that. I was actually listening to one of your earlier podcasts with Taylor, and he has the accounting services, the consulting accounting services, and one of the things that he mentioned, they work exclusively with AppFolio users, and kind of what they said is, “We only hire people that have worked at AppFolio, and we will only work with AppFolio at this stage because that's the only thing that we're comfortable with,” because it's this monolithic behemoth that you need expertise to even navigate, right? Jason: Right. Dave: That's definitely true for AppFolio, and it's true for a lot of the other software. There's a huge learning curve there. The first time we hire somebody on Innago, we always sit them down, and we jump on LinkedIn, and we do a little exercise, or research the companies. We're not looking for employees of those companies, or even their company page, we’re actually looking for employees at property management companies that their job title, their role is like the AppFolio expert on T, because you need certification to understand how to use it. That was kind of the initial kernel Innago came out of is, you shouldn't need a certification to use property management software. It should be like picking up Gmail for the first time, or picking up iPhone for the first time. It should be intuitive, and simple, and elegant, and powerful, and flexible to work with a lot of different users in a lot of ways. That's really our difference, in the way that we're approaching the market, putting a lot of time, and thought into the features, and the way that they interact, and the way that the user interacts with those features. We're really proud of the features that we do have. It is an ongoing product, and we're constantly adding more. I think for a lot of property managers, and landlords on the higher end, they're going to find at this stage that it might not be a perfect fit, but for those folks with small to mid size portfolios, it's got a lot of really great stuff that it will work well for them. Jason: Yeah, I'm in total agreement. When it comes to software, the number one challenge tends to be adoption, and ease of use is right there. If something is intuitive, that's the biggest challenge, and hurdle. Dave: Right. Jason: I don't even like them using software that's ugly. Dave: Right. Jason: I just can't bring myself to do it. Maybe it's the designer in me. I don't know, but if I'm going to be living in something, I don't want it to be ugly. That's why I use Apple products because they just… Dave: Right, absolutely. Clean design. Jason: I was around my mom just yesterday, and she had a computer and she was like, “I clicked on Chrome, and it's not loading, and nothing's happening coming up,” and I'm like, “I don't know, that's a PC. I've never had that problem on a Mac.” I just don't have that problem. I just think it's funny. I was like, “I don't know, good luck.” Dave: Yeah absolutely, and a lot of property managers and landlords—many are very tech savvy, there's also many that aren't so tech savvy. It's equally, if not more important, to have something that's not incredibly complex, and incredibly challenging, and opaque, and difficult to enter into. Jason: I'm incredibly tech savvy, and I probably could’ve figured out my mom's computer thing, but it probably would’ve wasted an hour or two of my time and I don't want to waste time figuring out my software at every step of the turn and teaching my team members how to figure out software at every step of the turn. Intuitiveness in software is my number one priority. A lot of people build their whole set up internally in their business, trying to find one piece of software that can do everything, and it's usually really awful at everything in a lot of instances, instead of finding the easiest, and best, and fastest tools. Speed is my love language, I think in business, and I want it to be fast, and want it to be simple, and intuitive. I love that that's kind of a foundational goal with your software, because I don't believe that any of the other property management software, that was their foundational goal, ease of use, and to be intuitive. If it was, they've gotten long far away from it. Dave: Right, yeah, I think you're right. Jason: Yeah, and some are much worse than others, and some of them, they can do everything. They're like the ultimate Swiss army knife. Like I've joked in the past, you're not going to see a handy man carrying around a multi tool to try and do all this hard jobs. Dave: Right. Jason: He's going to have a nice tool box with the best tools. The software’s more intuitive, the software is really easy for people to use, and now you're saying on all parties for like the owners, they want to maybe check reports, is there an owners portal? Dave: There is. Jason: Tenants that want to pay rent, and do their stuff, there's tenant portal. And then for the property manager, they can manage and see their portfolio pretty easily, and know what's available, and vacant. Does this have marketing stuff connected to it yet for listing, and the getting the properties out there in the marketplace? Dave: Yeah, great question. We do not currently have marketing. We plan to roll that out, but as you mentioned, I think one of the problems that's happened with other software packages, the feature creep went too fast. They wanted to get all the features that any landlord could ever ask for out as quickly as possible, and that has not been our approach. We have said let's do this methodically, let's think about ways to integrate this into the way that the rest of the software works. Let's make sure that it's easy to use. We are constantly adding features but we're not necessarily rolling out everything that everybody wants, all at the same time. Market syndication is what we call it. The marketing piece is definitely on its way, but it'll probably be another three or fours months before we have that out there. Jason: Yeah, feature creep is a real issue. I'm a big fan of Jason Fried. He's the CEO of Basecamp. I got to hang out with him on a Skype call for 90 minutes. He cut my staffing costs in half overnight, no doubt. I'm a big fan of him. By saying he cut my staffing costs in half, I should say he doubled our productivity. I didn't just fire everybody. We just became that much more productive because he helped me understand how we had so many interruptions, we had so many things that weren't intuitive, and he changed how we communicate as a company. He has a similar philosophy when he talks about creating their softwares. Basecamp doesn't do a whole lot compared to a lot of other software, it’s pretty limited in its feature set, but it's consistently always at the top of the tools and resources people mention for project management even though I really don't believe Basecamp is a project management tool, I believe it's a communication platform for internal communication, that's how we use it. Everyone's going to ask for features, you have to really be picky in choosing about what are the features that are really going to matter the most and get the biggest bang for your buck and really make a difference without it becoming overly crazy, too cumbersome, unintuitive, and difficult to do. There's always that balance of managing all of the features.  Do you see that you guys will be doing any sort of Zapier integration so that people can create zaps and start connecting and integrating with third party tools? No software has come out with this yet. Dave: Yeah. That’s a really good idea. That is not our road map but I love Zapier. We use it for all sorts of other things, whether it's connecting Wordpress to HubSpot or whatever. It’s a really cool platform. That’s an interesting thought. We hadn’t gotten that far. We might still… Jason: Add it to your list and be the first. I'm waiting to see who is the first property management software the adds Zapier integration because everyone's been asking for it. All these people want it connected to their automation. They want to connect it to their process street processes, or they want to connect it to whatever. I think this would be a really cool thing. Dave: We’ll let you know when we do. Jason: I keep throwing that out usually to property management software that I have on my show and I'm waiting to see who's the first to have Zapier integration. Some people call it [zey-pier], but I think [zey-pier] is weird because it creates [zaps], people, so it’s Zapier. You're not [zey-ping] your business.  What else should people know about this software? What are some of the most common questions that a property management business owner might ask that they're concerned about? Dave: Well, one you hit on was the sub users. Enabling not just the head property manager from accessing the platform, but also giving out who has access to which permissions, who has access to which features. Maybe it's Bob, you want him to handle these categories for these properties, or you want your property owners to log in and be able to handle it themselves. Jason: There's the ability for vendors to leverage and use the system as well? Dave: Not vendors, that would be like a maintenance person that you either have on staff or you have on retainer 1099 or whatever. We do not have a vendor portal at this time. That’s a big one and then the other really common question we get is of course the pricing because of the sector that we’re in, that's at the top of our base mind. Jason: Do you want to tell pricing now? If you're planning on changing, don’t. Tell them to go to your website. Dave: No, I'd be more than happy to jump into pricing. Now it’s pretty unique, we're 100% free to use for landlords. There’s no monthly fee, yearly fee, setup fee, there’s no contract. There's absolutely no cost. Everything that I've mentioned is included. Instead, when a tenant pays rent online, we charge them $2 for an ACH transaction. We charge them $2.75 for a credit or debit card, and that's it. Jason: Totally reasonable. I've been saying for at least over a year to people who have listened to some of my older podcast episodes that free property management software will come and there will be the day that somebody's going to offer it, just like people aren't paying for Gmail, people aren't paying for this sort of stuff and it's making money. It manifested, here it is. Dave: That’s right, we did it. It's 100% free for the landlord. Some landlords see the value in an online payment, they see it so highly to pay actually choose to incur a cost and we allow them to do that if they want to, but for most landlords 90% plus, they're not paying a dime to use Innago. Jason: Very cool, that's really interesting. This would be fantastic then for startup PM's, startup property managers. A question that my team would care about is for the rental listings, the vacant properties, do you have some way of listing the vacant properties in some web based fashion? If they're putting properties into their system, is there some sort of code that we can embed on a website to show their available rentals? Dave: Again, there's nothing on the marketing side just yet. Everything is cotntained within Innago but we certainly see the value in that. Jason: Maybe in the future then. What else should people know about Innago? Anything else you want to throw out there? Dave: Well, we offer particularly in our sector where you do have some of the lower cost platforms out there or some of the simpler platforms out there I suppose. Oftentimes, they don't offer any sort of support beyond a 48-hour email window. With Innago, we’re a little different, we offer full phone support. We also have embedded videos and help section to ease landlords along in the system as they get started and learn the platform. We’re really big believers in early success begets future success. We want to make sure that we’re hand holding for your first month, two months on the platform, and ensuring that you understand how to use it. You can use it effectively and can leverage it to improve your business. Once you do that, then you're off to the races and in really good shape. We offer a unique level of support that many others can't really match. Jason: What platform are you using for support? Dave: We use Freshdesk, and we use HubSpot, and we use Zapier to connect certain things to other things. Jason: Cool. We use intercom for anyone listening, because property managers need some sort of support desk too. Dave, this sounds really neat. How could somebody demo this if they're curious to check out your software and how should they get in touch? Dave: Yeah. They can go to innago.com and they can request access to a free account. We’ll get in touch with them shortly after just to make sure they're a good fit, that we're going to solve some problems for them. We don't want them to waste any time fooling around on a platform that is really not going to work for them. If they request access, we’ll shortly be in touch, and we'll get them into the platform, and they can start playing around with it. Jason: Where does the name Innago come from? I'm a branding guy, I'm always curious. Explain Innago. Dave: We like to think of it as a strong three-syllable word, that's about the extent of it. It's really kind of like Google or Yahoo, there's not a whole lot behind it. Jason: Okay. Maybe we’ll have to make up the story sometime together about it. Dave: Yeah. We’ve thought about it, but we'll take any suggestions. Jason: When did you guys launch this? How new is this software? Dave: We launched the company in January of 2017. We had the product out in the market, kind of like an alpha stage really in March of that year. We've been coming along ever since. As far as a product, we're a little over two years now. Jason: Awesome. How many companies are using this right now? Dave: We have thousands of landlords on the platform and it's growing every day. I would nail that hard number, but it probably changes by the minute. Jason: Yeah. It's probably pretty tempting and pretty easy if it's free. I would imagine you guys will have some success and you guys are making enough money you think to stay healthy just through the transactions? Dave: Yeah. As you know, there's a lot of landlords out there. The majority of them are still self managed or not using any kind of software. There's a lot of tenants that want to pay online. Only about 30% of the market currently pays rent online. That's a huge giant blue ocean that’s ready to be captured. Jason: Yeah. There's a lot of blue ocean that are self managing. If you really want to super attract property management business owners, if you can figure out a way to help connect these self managers so that they can get that professional managers to take over stuff, and partner, maybe create some partners, I think you’ve got a winning affiliate business going on right there that’s good for your company. Dave: Absolutely. Jason: I know there's lots of people listening that would like to get connected to those that are self managing and work with them. Dave, super cool to have you on the show. I wish you lots of success. It would be cool to have you come back maybe in the future after you've come out with even more features if you’ve got something really cool to share. I wish you guys a lot of success with the free software. I've been talking about this for a while. I think it's long overdue. This is really great. Dave: Awesome. Thanks so much, Jason. I really appreciate it, my pleasure being on the show. Jason: Yeah, thanks for coming on. You heard it everybody, free property management software that is intuitive. If they are really intuitive, they're going to have a lot of natural success and growth, and if they're free, they're going to have a lot of growth. If they can make the numbers work which sounds like it would be pretty easy with all the transactions that are going to be occurring, it could be a game changer.  I think other property management software, they're a little bit greedy, and there's too much of that feature creep. I think this will be a competitor. It’d be interesting to watch. Let’s keep our eyes tuned, our eyes peeled and stay tuned to see what they do. Anyway, this is Jason Hull of the DoorGrow Show. If you are wanting to know if your property management website is leaking money because every website is probably leaking money. If you want to see that it’s leaking money because you don't want it to be leaking deals and leads anymore and you want to make more money and cash from your business, test your website out by going to doorgrow.com/quiz and take our DoorGrow Score Quiz that’s going to grade your website on how effective it is at creating conversions. Some of the questions are tricky. There's a lot of people taking the test and then make a bunch of changes to their website, some of them are false positive, so be careful if you're going to do that. Do that quiz and then maybe talk to our team and we can help you improve your website piece because I really don't believe that anybody's better at creating websites that make money than DoorGrow for property managers. Alright, we'll talk to all of you guys soon. Until next time, to our mutual growth.  

Love ‘em or hate ‘em, most of us have lived with roommates at some point. You probably split expenses and chores, including rent and taking out the trash. Today, I am talking to Tyler Hayes and Joáo Ritter of Roof, which helps roommates resolve problems to live peacefully together and landlords easily collect rent and connect with tenants. You’ll Learn... [01:48] How a college hobby project created a company: A group of friends who love to design and build things, like apps, got together to foster productive communities. [02:21] It’s good to have friends with different skill sets to make a product even better. [03:17] Roof: A company all about people who share and make a place feel like home and landlords who make space available to those tenants. [03:55] Property vs. Tenant Management: Does your landlord treat you like a human being or asset? Problem-solving by landlords improves relationships with their tenants. [04:45] Pairing up to build an app: Eager to work on meaningful, real-world projects and continue to invest in them. [06:00] What is Roof, and what does it do? Landlord: Gets paid, makes sure home operates as expected, and creates positive renting experience for tenants. Roommates: Share reminders, shopping items, expenses, and anything else they want to exchange while living together. [07:28] Target Audience: Landlords handling a small portfolio of college housing; who know all their tenants by name and care about communicating with them. [08:13] Landlords recognize that renting experiences and services they provide for tenants reflect back on them and their reputation. [08:39] Societal trend toward people moving in together for the sake of economic efficiency; people try to live together, share spaces, and live more cheaply. [09:26] Recipe for Disaster: Relying on one to communicate to entire household. [10:00] Roof app revolves around sharing space between people who all share responsibility for that space. [10:54] Common Challenges: Roof helps solve communication issues and responsibilities masked as reminders for people sharing space. [18:09] People love interacting and inspiring one another to take risks, make the move, offer encouragement and support - Roof’s team is part of conversation/common goal. [22:57] Plans to integrate with property management software that lacks Roof’s roommate functionality/communication platform? Too cost prohibitive for small investors. [27:53] Future Feature: How Roof decides which features to focus on or throw away. Tweetables Does your landlord treat you like a human being or asset? Roof revolves around sharing space between people who share responsibility for that space. There's always going to be bugs, tweaks, changes—that's just the nature of software. Resources Roof ($20 of transaction fees for free, use code: 3875 DoorGrow) Roof on Twitter Roof on Instagram Roof on Facebook Contact Roof AppFolio Buildium Propertyware Rent Manager Rentec Direct Property Meld Happy Inspector Latchel Myers & Briggs Personality Types Slack BiggerPockets PayLease DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrowLive DoorGrow on YouTube DoorGrow Website Score Quiz Transcript Jason: Welcome, DoorGrow hackers to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think, you’re crazy for doing it, you think they’re crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I’m your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let’s get into the show. Today, I’ve got two guests hanging out here with me. My guests are—see if I got the name right—Tyler Hayes and Joáo Ritter. How did I do? They are here from the company Roof, and one of you is the CEO. That’s you, Joáo, right? Joáo: That’s me, yup. Jason: You’re both software engineers. How did you guys get into this? How did you decide, “Hey, property management might be a space that we might want to connect with in some way, shape, or form.” Then let’s lead in how Roof came to be and what it is? Joáo: Sure. So, we started the company in college actually as a hobby project. I wanted to know how to build an app. I lived with a ton of roommates at the time, and we had a few things that we routinely split amongst ourselves: a few reminders of shopping, other expenses, rent, payments. I started to learn how to build an app by trying to automate some of these things. Part of my brain is naturally inclined to inputting names, and brands and business-fy things. Over time, we took this concept, I was working [...], and several friends wanted to put it on the App store, so we did. We started talking to my good friends who had different skill sets from myself, and we worked together to make the product even better. A couple of years then, super as a hobby project still, we had this app for roommates to solve roommate problems or roommate exchanges. We had a landlord, I remember at the time, Nathan, he really gave a damn about his tenants, about us. He's very much in tune with making sure we had a cozy place to live, the problems got solved, that he addressed us as human beings and not as assets, but his way of collecting rent was still pretty archaic, really easy to get logistics mixed up, and not communicate the way in which was authentic to him. We came to him. We were like, “Hey, look. We have this app for roommates that roommates are enjoying.” I think we really want to make this company all about home, about the people who share a home and make a place feel like home and operate well. That actually involves knowing that we're living in the house, but also the landlord to make the space available to tents. Funnily enough, we actually didn't come into the project with the intent of providing value directly to landlords. Our value prop was actually for roommates. I think that actually makes us a really interesting and appealing platform for landlords because their customers are roommates. By addressing the problem less, as a property management problem and more, as a tenant management problem, we really get to the core of the problem solving that you have to do as a landlord: from late payments to reminders to making sure service requests are addressed on time and that the communication is proper between everyone involved; that everyone who shares a home has the ability to stay in tune with the conversation with the landlord as the head of the [...] oftentimes and maybe [...]. That all led us to entertaining the idea of expanding to landlords. Then going all in, “Hey, look, if I'm going to build the platform of the future to make home exchange possible, we have to, not only solve roommate dynamics but also the landlord-tenant relationship.” Jason: Tyler, are you one of his roommates, then? Tyler: No. We never lived together. Although, we did both have roommates and we were both in college. Jason: Yeah. How did the two of you kind of pair up in the business here? Tyler: Well, at that time, I was in design school. We were in two different universities, pretty close to each other. At some point, we talked about this idea of building this app. Joao was really interested in figuring out how to build an app, [...] gets to practice in doing that is in trial-by-error, I guess. For me at the time, it was a similar sentiment because being in design school, I was really eager to work on something, some kind of real-world projects, work on something that's going to be meaningful, that I could follow, and continue to invest in. At the time, part of the motivation for starting the project was just like, “Hey, let's just make something.” We’re interested in learning some things and doing some things like, "Let's just make something." That was kind of it at first. Jason: Yeah, cool. Let’s let the audience know what is Roof. If you can give the back story. What the heck is it? What does it do? Joáo: [...] is an app for tenant management. It lets you collect rent payments and manage maintenance requests from your tenants, and communicate with your tenants. It's all about being on the same page with your tenants, you're getting paid and making sure your home operates as you expect, making sure your tenants have a great renting experience. It solves the core functionality the landlord needs when it comes to renting their home and growing their portfolio from there. For roommates, it helps you share your reminders, shopping items, expenses, and anything you may want to exchange throughout your living together. Jason: A lot of people listening, they might have AppFolio, or Buildium, or Propertyware, or Rent Manager or Rentec Direct, or one of this property management sort of back-office accounting solutions and some that might help with the maintenance request stuff. Some of them are okay, some of them a lot of our clients or people listening will use third party tools like Property Meld or Latchel. I'm really interested, and I haven't heard of anything for roommates, so that's pretty unique that you have something that helps facilitate roommates. Do you find that a lot of your target audience are running college housing or dealing with college housing situations? Tyler: Yeah, that's a really big segment of the people that we talk to, but it's not entirely. Generally, it's landlords with a bit of a smaller portfolio. The kind of people who probably know all the tenants by name, who would otherwise maybe be texting their tenants, having that kind of relationship with them. Basically, landlords who care about communication and especially landlords who care about actually just doing things that their tenants are going to appreciate. Because ultimately, for a lot of landlords, they recognize that the services that they can provide, the renting experience that they can provide for their tenants, is ultimately going to be reflected as their brand as a property manager, as a landlord. For landlords who want to invest in that, those are typically the ones that we see most invested in Roof. Joáo: Yeah, totally but let me double down on what you said. I think there's a lot to be said about the societal trend towards people moving in together, not for the sake of a family necessarily, but for the sake of economic efficiency. People are moving into urban areas, people are moving into college towns for school, and whatnot. Instead of living on the outskirts and pay cheaper, people try to live together and share spaces and live more cheaply. I bet a lot of landlords listening in here have rentals that they rent—not to single families—even though they may be single-family homes but actually to people who share a space as roommates, who may otherwise don't really have a relationship with one another apart from being roommates who may have found each other on craigslist or some service. What you'd probably run into as a landlord in those circumstances is you have to keep up a relationship with them. Normally, you have one head of the house, someone on the lease, or someone that you have their email, that you go to directly and expect them to convey the message to the rest of the house. That’s kind of a recipe for disaster when you talk about communication when you're trying to rely on one person to communicate an idea or a circumstance to a whole household. The core of our app revolves around sharing space and sharing space between people who all share the responsibility of the space. If you're a landlord who finds himself in this puzzle of trying to manage roommates, it makes it a lot easier to reach out in one spot, allow roommates to split payments as they will as long as you get the full rent ship at the month and then give them, as Tyler had said, a great experience meanwhile. There's a lot to be said about that. I think we have a lot to grow to accommodate larger portfolios which we fully intend to do. But for the time being, it's 100% focused on landlords who see the opportunity in creating a brand for themselves and experience for their tenants and solving problems through effective communication. Jason: What are some of the challenges that people sharing space will run into so that we can paint a picture of how this app solves these problems? What are some of the problems? Tyler: We could probably tape a whole podcast about that question. Jason: Cool. Let's paint a picture here. Tyler: At the core of it all is communication. The problem basically is, how can you communicate with each other things that each other needs to be responsible for, things that need to be done. Some of that can be abstracted into things like, if you're living together there's going to be expenses that are shared, there's going to be responsibilities that are shared, and purchases that are shared, items in their household that you might want to share responsibility for keeping in stock. Those things certainly tend to change a lot from household to household depending on just like what your house is like. In designing Roof, I think we tried to create some tools that were specific enough to target the main needs of people but still general enough to be applicable to as many different types of households as possible. The things that we've targeted are: one, just splitting expenses, so being able to keep track of who's paying for shared things whether it's groceries or split bills like monthly expenses like utilities or… Joao: Rent. Tyler: ...rent, yeah. Joao: That's kind of a holy grail of sharing space. Tyler: Right, the holy grail. We included a shopping list feature to keep things in stock that might be shared. Things like trash bags and groceries. In our household, we use it to track things like olive oil, things that we share for cooking, kitchen supplies, that kind of thing. Also, there is the responsibility aspect that I mentioned. Being able to sort of offer some kind of recognition for saying like, "Oh, Joao, took out the trash. Joao cleaned the dishes. Joao swept the hallway." Things like that, responsibilities that sort of affect everybody, that help everybody, that you want to offer some ability to track, but without getting too into the weeds of being like passive-aggressive like, "Come on. Do this." Joáo: Yeah, its responsibility kind of masked as reminders. So, “You have to take out the trash on Sundays.” You program your Roof app to schedule it between your roommates. So, one Sunday it'll be using, "Jason take out the trash." Then you know it’s your turn then next week time, “Tyler, take out the trash.” You can kind of all share the responsibility. Everyone has a roommate story. I think the roommate story, the core of them, stems from an imbalance of sharing. Maybe one person's accustomed to doing everything and has that sense of responsibility and autonomy but they feel as though people around them aren't keeping up or you're on the opposite end where you feel as there’s someone in your house just does everything without you having to say anything, and without you having the opportunity to be involved. All those are communication issues which I think is the backbone but still abstract. In order to make those tangible things like expenses, shopping, and reminders really kind of lay the foundation of the interactions. Rent payment is the thing you sign on the lease on together to be able to share, right, and we really see the opportunity there because no matter how many expenses you share throughout the month, usually they add up to less than your [...] in the month. You can imagine creating a more comfortable splitting environment where at the end of the month, I may buy a handful of groceries, and a new piece of furniture, but when it comes time to pay rents that just means I'll pay a little bit less and Tyler will pay a little bit more. You as landlord [...] full amount, we're even on our end, and all is well. That's kind of our way of operating. Jason: It's interesting because really, there are so many different personality types out there. I don't know if you've ever played around Myers Briggs, but in Myers Briggs, for example, you've got the ISFJ and the ESFJ personality types that are very much like givers, and they're always serving people, doing stuff for other people, but they don't want to ask. They’re just arguing, and they're expecting people to reciprocate. Joao: Totally. Jason: They're always let down because nobody gives as much as them. But their mindset is, "If I do this, people should just do it back, they should reciprocate." A lot of other personality types, they're focused on other things, they’re not focused on reality, they're focused on ideas or code or whatever you guys might have been focused on. There's this power play, and passive aggressiveness comes out, and challenges come out. It can get ugly. It's simply because somebody didn't communicate with somebody else. I can see how that would help. It probably could be used in families, let's be honest. Joáo: It's not dissimilar from Slack for workplaces. When you have a team that needs to collaborate or to get something done, you're going to have different personality types. Different people are more inclined to step in, and different people are more inclined to observe and take it in and then respond over time. But if you have the right organization of how you interact with one another, you have access to a whole group, you have access to individuals, you have access to services that come through and talk to you via this medium, you're able to actually keep clarity over the whole situation and manage those personalities. Roof, as a tool, is particularly useful for particular groups of people but it's really hard, as you mentioned, to solve the problem holistically. I think it's not terribly efficient to try to solve roommate ship. There exist roommates who already enjoy each other's company, and they aren't in this tug and pull battle. They just really could use a tool to basically make concrete their group and their place of interaction, and then through that means, you keep organized, but you're not necessarily leaning on the app to build your relationships. I don't know we're going to build any relationship that doesn't already exist, but we do have to step in and be a tool for people who are already managing themselves via a spreadsheet or via some other less efficient mechanism right. Jason: Yeah, cool. Yeah, I like it. What else should people listening, know about Roof? Joáo: I'm really proud of our team. I think that's why I love working on the project is I think we've managed to surround ourselves with incredible people. I think people who use Roof see that in the form of how they interact with us, and how we enjoy interacting with them, how we make ourselves available. Our whole team, from me all the way to people working on sales, it's a very small team. I don't state people as there’s just a bunch of us, a handful of us with pretty particular responsibilities. You have access to engineering, all the way to design, all the way to decision making, and we want your input. That's how we kind of operate internally with [...] one another. We consider the landlords who use us as investors. They're investing in us by putting their portfolio onto Roof, by extracting value that we have to offer, and by wanting our company as a means to build their own company, that's something I really care about. It sits tangent to the app itself, but I think it's actually a massive part of what you're getting with Roof is the team behind the project. Tyler: I actually just want to second that because I think it's something that, in my opinion, probably sets apart the company that we're building compared to some similar service in the same industry. I tend to be the member of our team who talks to the people who are using Roof the most. If you got an email from Roof, it's probably from me. It's something that we benefit from tremendously, getting to talk straight to people who are using Roof and not just from a feedback perspective like, "Hey, how is this feature working for you? What's something that you have in mind that could be working better?" It feels good to be able to hear the opinions of people have about how the app is working for them and any kind of conversation, really. What I found is that the types of landlords I think who want to invest in Roof tend to be the types of landlords who are very much interested in being a part and building something better than what already exists in the market right now. By nature of that, we're the type of people who are really eager to sort of get involved in the way that we want people to be involved which is, "Hey, like if you have an idea for something that we should be doing, tell us and reach out to us." We maintain a Slack channel with some of the more involved users that we're always trying to invite more people to. We maintain pretty regular e-mail communication with quite a few of our people who are using Roof. I think that benefits us as well as the people who use Roof a lot. Joáo: Jason, I know you know for sure how interconnected a lot of property management org, and financial freedom hustlers are. People love interacting and inspiring one another to take risks, to make the move, to encourage and to have the support, and I think we're an extension of that. We don't sit side by side to the landlords knowing the real estate investor is actually going out and paying attention to the market and purchases, etc., where we feel like we're very much part of that conversation. If you're expanding your portfolio, loop us in. We pay attention to so many blogs, from BiggerPockets to Instagram feeds of individuals who are, not only doing a hell of good work but also inspiring other people around them, in the same boat, maybe a little bit earlier on their careers to keep going. It's very similar, as a small business owner to work with small business owners towards this common goal. Jason: Very cool. Alright, I have feature requests, then, for you guys. I’m just kidding. Maybe these are on your road map, I don't know, but this is how my brain works. I'm going down all these channels. One huge opportunity, it sounds like for guys, is in the property management space. All these property management software tools, they lack this roommate functionality that you've created, this communication platform. Do you see the day that maybe you could somehow connect, or integrate with maybe Rent Manager, it could become sort of a strap on to AppFolio or Buildium or something like this to where if they have some college housing, they could set up the college housing people on this app and they could at least do the accounting. Because some property managers are using a third party tool just to collect rent payment like PayLease or something like that even though they have their own system. I think there might be a potential here for those that are doing college housing right now to use something like this, and they might have hundreds of doors. Joáo: Sure, yeah. Absolutely. I think the question is kind of multifold. I think there are several avenues, an opportunity that could be pursued there. The idea that Roof is a side-by-side tool to PayLease or AppFolio is interesting. You can set up your entire portfolio on Roof, and choose to collect payments directly on Roof or just mark settlements. If you want to actually put in your accounting on Roof, we don't yet have a full suite of graphs, charts, and really making your progressions known to you but not yet—that's another avenue. We could just go on accounting side-by-side through our communication core and really offer the value of other platforms. Or if you want to use the Roof side-by-side to it, you can just use Roof as a ledger, but actually, collect your payments through another software and just do all your communication on Roof. In which case, it's interesting to entertain the idea of proper integration between the two because I think in essence, we are competing and we are going after a different market. I think a lot of those tools, AppFolio in particular, is loaded with features that a lot of smaller rental operators don't need and it just overcomplicates the experience instead of ensuring it has a richer accounting feature. But oftentimes, too rich. It just gets in the way of the one report that we need, or the one piece of information that you actually come to over and over again. Jason: It’s too cost prohibitive for the smaller investor. Joáo: Too cost prohibitive. Absolutely. I'm unsure if a priority of ours would be to integrate. I think we would rather compete, to be honest, just because I think we see our market and our users as really valuing Roof as a strong competitor to those. I think it's a massive market. As you said, property management investors, property investors, come in all types, they all have different motivations. But I think the core of what you're getting at is, how can we extract the juicy features from our competitors and make them a part of the Roof in the most elegant way possible, and that's something that we're incredibly in tune with, "How our competitors' moving? What people are using?" Also, I don't think we're competitor-driven, I think we're customer-driven 100%. I'd rather spend my time talking to people who are using our app and appreciating the core of the features. We want to stay [...] with what we believe to be true about problem-solving and then say, "Yes, right. Cool. What kind of financial reports do you need? What kind of integration [...] do you need?" Then working those into the app in an elegant way. I think its value is to actually just build a feature and just throw it in another tab and just grow your tabs of different things you offer. Everything has to play with one another really well so that you actually create an experience that anyone can come into. From a person with one house and a couple of tenants to someone with 50 homes and hundreds of tenants and make the most of the platform. I'm more interested in that side of things—the post-integration bit. Jason: Right. Well, if you're open, in the future, I think there's a whole target audience that could use this that have lots of college housing clients. Rent Manager has an open API, Buildium has been doing integrations with Property Meld and Happy Inspector and others, and so I think there's a possibility there. AppFolio doesn't generally play nice with others. Usually, some people are finding workarounds, but they're still using third-party tools to do a lot of things. This is how my brain works are is, I would imagine one of the biggest challenges that roommates have is they lose a roommate. I don't know if this is some sort of future sort of idea, but I imagine this comes up a lot. They lose a roommate, they got to figure out how to pay rent, they need to find a roommate, and they want to make sure that they get the right fit. I don't know if this is something that you guys plan to tackle or this is a problem that Roof helps with it at all. Joáo: Yeah. I'll let Tyler explain, but I just want to say that, we sit and throw around ideas every single night. The most frustrating piece is just sitting on just like ledgers of great ideas. We're like, "We'll get to those. We have to do this thing that's in our face right now." Jason: How do you decide what comes first? How do you make the decision? Is it the noisiest customers or your biggest customers? As a software company, how do you decide which features to focus on, and which ones to throw away? Joao: It's a great question. It's the hardest part of the job, right, of making sure everyone's on the same page and has a shared belief of the direction we're going in. Oftentimes, I find that short-term goals can make the most sense when everyone sees with the opportunity that exists one, two, three years on the line. They still have to sit down and execute for three months at a time in particular feature set or particular go-to-market strategy or something like that, keeping these chunks of time open for discussion. Then, once everyone feels good that the product, that the users, marketing and the sales align, to basically, ink it all, sit down, get to work, knock it out and then go through your evaluation phase and then repeat the process. It seems like the most productive way to go about it. Obviously, I think as your cash flow increases, you're able to grow your company then you can kind of bring more heads, more brains out of the team and start to see if you can scale more horizontally. For the time being, I personally love working on a small team where we each kind of know each other intimately, know how we work and share [...]. It makes the decision making a little scarier because you have to pick a couple of things and do them, but you do them so well, I think. Whatever you choose to spend your time on, you just got to do the hell out of it and really believe that is the right way to go and then be truthful with yourself along the way if you need a correction. Tyler: Speaking to the scope of how user feedback, and what some of our customers are interested in, speaking of how that fits into the picture of what do we build next, there's certainly not any kind of rule for that. In fact, a lot of times, the two are sort of in odds with each other; the sort of things people would like to see us build versus the things we decide to build. Those are really tough decisions to make, especially when you have to make a decision and then respond to somebody in the email who's saying, "I love your app. I can't wait for you to build this." Then I got to come in and say, "Well, actually, it's going to be a couple of months before we can do that." A great example of that actually is right now, for the last couple of months, Joao and I have been invested in working on the new iOS and Android apps that we'll be shipping soon. Add the expense of otherwise, started addressing some urgent feature there's a couple of bugs that we'd love to be fixing in the current apps. Every single time something is brought to our attention where it's like, "Hey, this would be really helpful to have right now." We start to balance and say, "Okay. Well, do we take a couple of days away from this other project we're working on to do this thing that will help now? Or do we just buckle down and continue to invest time in something that's going to ultimately be an investment, and how well we'll be able to scale in the future?" The big reason that we're rebuilding the apps in the first place, from a tech perspective, the new stack that we'll be using to maintain those new apps will be a lot easier to maintain and so, adding a feature six months from now will take a lot of less effort than it would have taken now or a couple of months ago just because of how we're rebuilding things. The short answer is that it's really tough. Sometimes, one of the most frustrating things to deal with is having to tell people, "While you're suggesting is great, and I wish I can give you that. We've got to make a tough decision and focus on something else right now. Jason: I think every entrepreneur listening gets that. We all have situations in which we have our vision as an entrepreneur or as a business owner of what we want to do and accomplish, and then we have what our target audience is really screaming and begging for that we want to do. Every property manager probably has some sort of process they want to change or something they want to improve or something they're dealing with. I think that's the thing to realize is that the software that you're developing or the business that you're building, if you're a property manager that's listing, anything, it's always a living, breathing thing, it's never done. Just like, as human beings, we're never done. We're all still in the oven, so to speak. There's always going to be bugs, there's always going to be tweaks, there's always going to be changes—that's just the nature of software. You release new features, there's going to be little things, little nuances, and little things to change. Over time, you build something that just gets better and sharper. Then sometimes you have to completely rebuild something. You're like, "Okay. It'll be better to start over and do this really well now that we've learned so much than to keep building on a scaffolding that was not as strong." That's just how it works. I think our own main program, our seed program, we're on our third total revamp that we've done. I already have a whole list of old stuff I want to change, and add, and do—that's just how my brain works. Joáo: I think what's really important though is the fact that you've learned over time. It's not about always questioning, "Are you doing the right thing?" To me, it's all about knowing you are doing the right thing. If we make a choice to build something, "Let's build it. Let's ship it." There's going to be corners that need tying up in a good sense but, "Let's ship it. Let's learn from it. Let's move forward. Let's put weight on it and then let's see how far it can go until it stretches. Let's let it stretch." Let us not be afraid to let it stretch and feel comfortable like, "Hey, the work we did can hold that weight." But at the same time, we have to be evaluating, "Alright. Cool." If we then want to add more people or scale our transactions a hundredfold, "Will the stretch break?" At that point, you have to make a decision, "Yes. Let's go and do the remodel." I think the analogy for a lot of real estate investors is the remodel where maybe you have a house and you have a really janky kitchen. The whole house is beautiful, but something about the kitchen is off. People living in the house, they know that they would rather have a nicer kitchen that's going to take a long time. Meanwhile, you have a sink in the bathroom that's a little loose, and you have just a tweak off in the garden or something. The tenant will be like, "I get it. Yeah, you need to fix the kitchen. Spend time there. I'll deal with the sink and the little [...]." Jason: Meanwhile, I need a kitchen. Joáo: Yeah. A big thing for us is our Android app currently is running our web app on mobile, so it works. You can do everything you need, but the experience, the actual motion, the feel of it doesn't compare to what we built nearly iOS. We have a ton of people on Android who’s like, "Oh, I could use a new Roof experience in Android." Meanwhile, a lot of people already in iOS or on the web are kind of hoping at more sophisticated problems. But we’re like, “Look, by building a native Android app, we can also be able to offer this experience to a ton more people." Actually, [...] of doing that, we're now able to build for iPad, for desktop, new tablets, etc. It's exciting. Jason: Yeah, cool. I think it's exciting to hear what you guys are doing. I think you've done something really unique in the roommate space. It sounds like to kind of solve some problems. You've probably, solved a lot of passive-aggressive issues, and some [...] properties and created a lot more peace out there. It really sounds like this is software that creates a peaceful environment for all parties involved, including the landlords. To wrap this up, how can people find out more about Roof, and how can we get in touch? Joáo: Our website is roof.io. That provides an overview of the features that we offer, the different sides of it, you can read about how roommates use Roof, how landlords can use Roof. There's this little button that says 'Extra' which you click on, and we try to provide a lot of documentation to our accompany, it directs to the website also. You can go in there and find some more detailed information like FAQ and some guides for how to get started as a roommate or as a landlord or a renter. There's a lot of information on there. We also use Twitter to put out some updates as well as Instagram. We try to stay pretty up-to-date with that. There's also our Facebook page. We'll put some links to those wherever Jason thinks the best place to put some links. Reach out to us at team@roof.io—email address. Get directly in touch with us. We'll schedule a phone call with you, see what's up, see what's on your mind, see if Roof is a right fit for you. We're open to having a pretty open discussion. We've doubled a lot of users at this point, so we know kind of the ones that's really just a [...] value of what we offer them and those who are still in the edge of being the perfect fit for them. We'd be happy to kind of walk you through and making the right choice for you. Lastly, it cost $2 a transaction to use Roof. You can assume that yourself as a landlord or you can pass it on to your tenants, in which in case, it'd be free for you. If you do choose to assume, whenever your tenants come to pay, we give a little shout out for you in the app saying, "Your landlord is covering it for you. They're dope." But if you want $20 of transaction fees for free, use a code 3875 DoorGrow, it's a proprietary code just for the show, just for the audience here. You can get started, put some tenants there, try it out for a lease, you won't pay or tenants won't pay for about a year of that and see if it's right for you. Jason: The code one more time. Joáo: Code is 3875 DoorGrow. Jason: Okay, thanks for that. Those listening, property managers, that [...] college housing or deal with shared housing situations, I’d be be curious to get their feedback and see how it works for them. That’d be pretty cool. I appreciate you guys coming on the show. Have you guys thought of starting a shared housing property owners’ community? Like a Facebook group or something. It sounds like you’ve got this going in your Slack channel. Tyler: Speaking of Slack Channel, that would be another way to get in touch with us. Just scroll down to the bottom of the landlord’s page on the website, you can request to join there. Creating a community like that, it's not something that I think we have plans for. Jason: It's cool when you get them together, man. We’ve got our DoorGrow Club Facebook group, and you get these people together, and they start sharing ideas, helping each other, and the momentum is just awesome. I haven't heard of anything in the shared housing sort of space, this idea of having a property that is shared and this type of owners. College housing or whatever it might be, a cool little community out there, I guess. Anyway, check these guys out. Get into their Slack channel. Go to roof.io. I appreciate you guys coming on the show and excited to see what you guys do over the next few years here. Joáo: Thanks, Jason. Thank you for having us. It was a lot of fun. Jason: Alright. For those of you who are watching, make sure you get into our Facebook group, our community, which is doorgrowclub.com. You can get to that, it will redirect. If you are watching this on YouTube, make sure you like and subscribe so that you get these videos. We release the videos on YouTube before we release them to iTunes. If you're listening in iTunes, make sure you go to our YouTube channel, it's youtube.com/doorgrow, and click the red subscribe button there. Click the subscribe button and get subscribe and start getting notifications usually on your browser when we release or drop new videos. You can get this information and see some of these people instead of just listening. Until next time everybody. To our mutual growth. I hope you have a fantastic day and week. You just listened to the DoorGrow Show. We are building a community of the savviest property management entrepreneurs on the planet, in the DoorGrow Club. Join your fellow DoorGrow hackers at doorgrowclub.com. Listen, everyone is doing the same stuff. SEO, PPC, pay-per-lead, content, social, direct mail, and they still struggle to grow. At DoorGrow, we solve your biggest challenge getting deals and growing your business. Find out more at doorgrow.com. Find any show notes or links from today’s episode on our blog at doorgrow.com. To get notified of future events and news, subscribe to our newsletter at doorgrow.com/subscribe. Until next time, take what you learn and start DoorGrow hacking your business and your life.

Are you sure your kitchen table or big-screen TV will fit? If you’re interested in renting or buying a specific property, there’s a few steps to take before actually visiting it. Watch a virtual tour video and get pre-qualified. Today, I am talking with Michael Sanz of Neesh Property, which started in 2009 and has more than 650 doors. We discuss the benefits of automating property showings, including the opportunity to spend more time with people and to travel. Who wouldn’t want to operate a property management business from beaches around the world? You’ll Learn... [02:25] Purpose of Neesh Property: Holistic real estate that helps people buy, sell, rent, and arrange financing. [03:20] Same Startup Suffering: Michael struggled to start a business, grow new doors, and retain customers. [03:37] Identify and Prevent Problems: Michael controls and protects his business and simplifies his life through systemization and automation. [05:45] Workforce Reduction: Michael went from 18 to 1½ staff members and replaced them with property management software to save money. [07:58] Eliminate Office Space: Doesn’t affect how you do business. [09:43] Competitive Advantage: Neesh Property closes deals and acquires new business by leasing properties quickly. [10:30] Retain Relationships: Be client-focused, not location-focused when managing properties. [12:40] Learn from Mistakes: Try and implement new things, which may or may not work completely; pivot when necessary. [14:29] What’s the problem? Any problem, big or small, should be documented and automated to disappear. [16:10] Build Knowledge Base: Take time to make “how-to, what to do...” videos, recordings, and other visuals to help people understand processes/procedures. [21:05] Leverage People as Process: Create core team of people who are thinkers and decision-makers. [27:38] Virtual Tour Stats: Neesh Property gets over 85% of its real estate booked based on the virtual platform and averages 1.8 showings per property. [31:05] Good Tenants Gone Bad: Rather than giving best to the bad, give it to the best of everyone; mesh type of tenant to property. [50:55] Common Beginner Pitfall: You don’t need to be cheaper than everybody else to get started and compete; change your value proposition. Tweetables Save Money: Replace staff members with property management software. Be client-focused, not location-focused. Meaningful Connections/Conversations: The rest just falls into place; it’s all systems. Automation offers the opportunity to simplify your life and spend more time with people. Resources Neesh Property Michael Sanz on Facebook Ricoh 360 Camera Matterport: 3D Camera and Virtual Tour Platform Vieweet Skype Zoom Housecraft GatherKudos Oculus Rift DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrowLive Transcript Jason: Welcome, DoorGrow hackers to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives, and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow hacker. DoorGrow hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges, and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you’re crazy for doing it, you think they’re crazy for not, because you realize that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships, and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market, and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I’m your host, property management growth expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let’s get into the show. I am welcoming all the way from across the pond or even further maybe, Michael Sanz of Neesh Property Management. Michael, welcome to the show. Michael: Thank you very much for having me. Jason: I’m excited to have you. You’re a really cool guy. I got to connect with you in the past in person, which was great to meet you in person, and you’ve done some really cool things. But before we get into some of that, and today’s topic for those listening, is automating property showings. We’re going to be talking about that. But before we get into that, why don’t you give people a little bit of background on you and let everyone know why I think you’re so awesome. Michael: Thanks for the introduction and thanks for having me at the conference in Missouri last year. It was amazing. Perfect. As Jason said, I’m Michael Sanz. I am from Australia, from Melbourne, and I have a company called Neesh Property Residential that has been going since 2009, has over 650 doors. I started how everybody else started out in real estate and started from zero, or how much people started, started from zero doors. I had a new relationship started at the time. Add the pressure and the stress of a new relationship coming into a new business, setting all that up. I started from the study nook in an apartment that I had. I had left a previous business. It was quite a successful business. Left the partnership at the time and I started Neesh Property. What was Neesh Property to me? It was a holistic real estate that help people buy property, sell property, rent property, and arrange the finance. It’s holistic all under one roof. I had suffered the same problems everybody else has suffered from starting a business, trying to grow new doors, I guess retain business when people sell their properties or go to other agencies. I spent a lot of time methodically going through all the pros and cons of a property management business and I really started to systemize it, automate it, and not let the business control me from an early point, but how I could control my real estate business and what protections I could put in place to make sure that I could do some hyper growth, retain the customers that I had, and simplify life. A lot of people that know me would have say that I will operate Neesh Property from many beaches around the world. I would close down the company every Christmas time for two months. In real estate, people say, “That’s unheard of. What about maintenance? What about all the problems?” But I identified all these problems and I’ve been out of able to do a lot of travel, and I’ve spend a lot of family time while automating the business. Jason, as you’re talking about today, automating how I show properties and really break down that process meant that I could be in Missouri and show people property before I went on stage, after I went on stage, and successfully lease property without really having to do anything at all. Jason: This is wild. I think everybody listening goes, “Michael’s some sort of crazy, weird robot. This is some magical impossible thing. Nobody else can do this.” You’re maybe some sort of savant or guru. But you started your business and from the beginning had this intention of systemizing things and keeping things off your plate to keep that space, and some people, their intentions and focus is very different. They build a business that’s very difficult to manage and to run. Paint a picture. You’ve got 650 doors right now, I think you’ve said, right? Michael: I just sold a bulk of that and I’ve got Neesh Property. I’ve automated even more with a new portfolio, but that’s for a whole other conversation. Jason: Help people understand your business logistically. How many team members do you have? I think this is where it really showcases how different your business is than most companies that are at a similar size. Michael: Sure. At a point with the business, we had about 18 staff members. We had acquired another smaller business, and we acquired their team, and we had an office. A lot of which goes against the grain having office to me. But when I acquired another business, I took the office and it had a receptionist, it had a business development person, it had an account, they had all these people there. I couldn’t see, with total respect to their role, I couldn’t see the purpose of it, so I knocked them down from 18 down to 1½ staff members. One full-time property manager and one part-time who did routines and edit some showings as required. Jason: Wait. So, you went from 18, bring on another company, and then you whittled that down to 1½ team members. Michael: Yeah, correct. I couldn’t see the massive need to have all these people doing accounts when a lot of the property management software already did all the reconciliation. I was just having a bum on a seat to press a button to reconcile. I couldn’t see the purpose of having a receptionist when there are people there who could answer the phone, so we put in a good IVR, a good voicemail system, and we educated. We identified that a lot of the calls that were coming in were from tenants either trying to report maintenance or [...] it was. Then we put in automated responses there, too, and if there’s any business call, “Press one if you’re a landlord, press two if it’s new business,” and then it would come through to my cell where I could answer and respond to it quite fast. Identifying the flow of calls, the type of calls that are coming through the office meant I no longer had to have a receptionist there. In Australia, the wages are quite high. We’d be paying someone $50,000–$60,000 to sit at a front desk, to greet people if they came in. We have also identified that as property change, people will less and less likely to come to an office. Tenants wouldn’t necessarily walk into the office and let’s say they did walk into the office, we would be there to greet them but no one was really walking in. Owners rarely walk into an office anymore because they could call you, they could video call you. We ended up getting rid of the office. We have spent from a big 250 square meter office place to a two-bedroom apartment, and guess what? It didn’t affect how we did business, didn’t affect us picking up new business, didn’t affect us losing any business, and the world still spins. It’s not chaos. For us identifying all these headaches we’re able to see what mattered. If the team couldn’t adapt to technology changes, video, virtual reality, automated IVR systems, and things like that, then there wasn’t really a place in the business for them, respectfully. I actually have one property manager leave to go with a company where they still did paper condition reports because that’s how she wanted to do them. Jason: Right. You’re welcome to it. That’s so funny. Okay, so this will make a lot of sense and I think you and I have both significant, nerdy, technological side to us. This stuff sounds obvious to me and maybe obvious to you, some people listening maybe not so obvious. If they have all these questions, “How would I do this? I would I do that?” It’s scary. But if you make that your intention and your goal, you’ll figure it out just like you figured out whatever you’re doing now. One of your big competitive advantages now in closing deals and in acquiring new business is your ability to lease properties so rapidly. Paint this picture of how rapidly and how different your leasing process is, just to prime the pump here. Michael: To put it into another perspective—I know we touched on it previously—we were full suburbs. We manage properties in over 84 suburbs and we also have properties in two other states, which was Sydney and New South Wales in WA. WA is a four-hour plane ride and Sydney is 1½-hour plane ride from us. Now, we weren’t insane, crazy totally. We only manage properties of the clients that we actually had on our book and we did that so that we could retain the relationship with them and we would appoint other local agents to help with open inspections or routine inspections, or things like that. And because I’m a frequent traveler, when I was in the area, I would pop in, say good day to the tenants, and just touch face that way, so the owners knew that they are getting full kind of service. In Victoria, it is very much managed by our office and again, we are client-focused and not location-focused, which was one of our main selling points and is quite attractive to landlords that we had. Because we also offered mortgage brokering, we really didn’t do too many sales, we were mainly property management and then we offered mortgage brokering we saw the value in that. If it was [...] other agents that could help us do the menial tasks. It wasn’t a headache for us, we didn’t stress about it, but we covered a lot of space. You can imagine when properties come up for rent. It’s cyclical because people [...] properties around at Christmas time, they go home to their families and their friends. We would have sometimes 10%–15% of the book would start to come up for rent and you can imagine the franticness of trying to get out all the inspections, deal with tenants, vacates, and all those headaches that came with it. Now, it’s probably 11 where I started [...] this. This wouldn’t be a problem with the spread of properties. As I sat down, I started writing down all the problems that I could have. Petrol, time on the road, who am I going to have, how many staff members I need to to do this if I’m going to have potential growth? How do I automate this? That was the biggest thing. How do I automate this? What if it’s Christmas time and I want to go away on holiday? What am I going to do? The selfishness in me also came out because I still wanted to live and being an owner-operator. What would you do? I identified with myself that if I made mistakes, that was okay because being a business owner, if we don’t try and implement the things we’re looking, that ain’t worth. But it doesn’t mean that it’s not going to work in its entirety. It might mean that you just need to pivot a little bit and change what you’ve been doing to give another go. I had to automate the whole thing and I started the journey. Jason: I’m hearing a process here and I think you’ve mentioned this twice now. For those listening, you may have caught on this but it sounds like you have this mental process that you go through probably constantly where you list out potential problems, and then you sit down and figure out what are the solutions, and then you have this intention throughout that whole process of, “How can I have vacations? How can I make sure that I don’t have to always be doing it?” Which is a very different mindset than most ppl have. They’re just figuring out, “How to do I keep the business running? How do I make sure that we don’t drop the ball?” And you’re like, “No. How can I,” as you put it, “take Christmas and not have to work? How can I go on holiday and not have to do this, and it would still work?” That’s a different problem to solve. As entrepreneurs, we’re great at solving problems. But if we don’t give ourselves the right problem to work on, our subconscious isn’t going to work on it, our brains are not going to work on it, we’re not going to find those solutions. We stop prematurely at something superficial and that’s a whole level of depth to go beyond just making sure things work, it’s making sure things work without you. Maybe just describe that. What do you actually do? Do you just pull out a piece of paper and you write all the problems? Michael: A big point when I had staff in the office is that if anyone reported any type of problem, big or small, it had to be written down. If an owner said, for example, “I can’t reach you on your mobile phone.” Or, “I don’t understand the statement,” just general questions. If someone doesn’t understand the statement, what we did was we recorded what the landlord income statement meant. “This is your name, this is the date and everything.” We do a video. We do a screenshare/screengrab video and in that was a link. If anyone asks anything about statement, it was there for them. It was in one of our FAQs. People could see it. All of a sudden, we didn’t get all these calls. We worked out any problem in the business. Someone turned out in our office at 7:00 in the morning and said, “Why aren’t you open?” We address those things, we have better signage on the front door, and then all of a sudden, all these problems that a business would have were just disappearing and it was automated. By using video, by using written text, by having window displays, just simple things, the business became automated. So much so that religiously we close before Christmas and we open up towards the end of January, so that everyone gets time off to spend time with their family. Jason: And everyone being your 1½ team members. Michael: When I had a lot of team members, they were loving it big time. If people want to go on holiday, they can go on holiday because the business can run. Jason: All right, so this is really cool. Basically, what you’re talking about is you built a knowledge base of frequently asked questions and leveraged video screen shares, recordings, showing them how to do things so they visually could see, hear, and understand what needed to happen. As they would go through these and have these questions, or you send them a link to this frequently asked questions or in your knowledge base, or you send them this video, they would watch this video. The magic of video is they would feel like you’re right there, walking them through it, tell them, they’d hear you, see you, they feel like you’re taking care of them, and you’re not even there. You did it one time and now, it can be used for 650 different people or however many clients ;that you have. They can go through it multiple times instead of just once because they may not remember. But they’ll remember, “Oh, there’s this thing I can go to to get it.” Michael: Correct. A lot of the agents who I would speak to is on video. I don’t have to speak to video where it takes time, I don’t have enough time. A lot of the videos early on that I did [...] showing or like a routine inspection or open for inspection. I would just have the camera on a tripod and while I was waiting for people to come, I would do a video. “I’m at this property here. Look at this one,” or, “This is a leaking tap. This is how we address it. This is what we do.” Just small videos and I just built up content. I had the tenants any problems, what to do if it’s raining. What to do if your hot water service breaks. What to do if your dog runs out to your next door neighbor. Just simple things I turned into a video so I didn’t have to answer again and again. Again, this is like I’ve touched on before when people could call up and they address the problem or an issue or concern, we try to turn that into a video so that it was answered once, solved 100 times. Jason: The trick is that if you’re going to have to answer ever, once, take note of it, then put it on your to-do list to make a video so you don’t ever have to answer that again. Michael: Yeah. I think as business owners we need to give ourselves the emotional permission today to take the time, even if takes us half an hour to do it, so we bank up future time. That task is going to take us a 30-minute phone call or whatever it is, we spend 30 minutes recording it now, and you’re going to have that conversation a hundred times, you just saved yourself 50 future hours and you could be doing other things. Jason: Absolutely. We have done the same thing with clients who go through our program. I used to coach them all directly, but shifting it into video content allowed me to make sure that I said the same thing and got the best information to each client, and it allowed them to watch it more than once. My memory is not so amazing that I could remember every single thing I’ve said to every single clients about every single topic and not miss something. But I could put it into content. If I get a bunch of questions, I can add more content. I think some people would say, “Jason,” or, “Michael, you guys are really lazy.” I think there’s brilliance in that. I wouldn’t call it laziness; I would call it, we don’t like doing stupid stuff over and over. I mean, really simply, and that’s really frustrating to have to do redundant work. But some people, they love that. They would just do the same thing everyday. They love doing that. That’s not me. I would guess that that’s not really you, either. You like being able to have freedom and not have to answer the same questions over and over and over again. Michael: That’s the definition of insanity, isn’t it? Doing the same thing over and over again, getting the same result. I can’t understand doing the same thing over and over. I guess as business owners, we also get caught up in the really small things, and those small things we think become really important but they’re not. I’ve got some VAs that do the really menial, small tasks that I don’t even have to think about. Things that our software doesn’t do that a VA would do. Get out of that mindset that you have to do these really small things because it’s not important and when we identified that owners and tenants just want to get that problem resolved. If it needs to get escalated, then yeah of course, take it on. But the small things, they don’t really care who answers, it’s fine. As long as it’s clear, their problem is solved, they can walk away happy, then they’re good. Don’t stress. Jason: So, part of this automation, you’re leveraging technology, you’re leveraging video, you’re leveraging a database or knowledge base of frequently asked questions but also, you are leveraging people as process. You’re bringing people almost in a position of almost operating software in some instances. And then you have a core team of people that actually are thinkers and decision-makers that’s really small based on what you said. Let’s get into then the topic at hand, which is automating property showing. How can those listening start to move towards automating property showings and what are the benefits you’ve seen by doing that? Let’s get them excited about the why they should do this first. Michael: As a business owner, having staff members and having multiple properties that would come out open for inspection and also understanding that tenants are really demanding, they want to see the property, they would call you up and say, “Is it open now? Is somebody there now? Can I go now?” And then having a staff member get in the car, drive half an hour listening to music, speaking to their family and friends, doing whatever they want to do in the car, get to the property, wait for the tenant to turn up, show them the property, have them say, “Oh, yeah. It’s nice. The walls really look like they did in the photos.” Whatever it is, or they love it and again they’ll buy for it. “Can you wait for my friend to turn up? My partner’s on their way.” All these headaches. They do the inspection and then they spend another half an hour driving back or getting lunch on the way, or however long it is. One time, okay, but if you replicate that, you’ve got 8, or 10, or 15 properties for rent at that time, that’s a headache for any company because of all these inefficiencies on the road. I identified, “Okay. Well, what do we do?” My wife was working for a ticketing and event company based in San Diego. She was running it from Australia, it’s the operations. We’re in San Diego one time, I had this massive 3D 360 camera. I was going through all the theaters and from every seat there would be a 360 [...] so that people, when they go to buy a ticket, they could see their exact view of how they’re going to see the stage. I was like, “Hang on. Why can’t I do this in real estate? What’s stopping me from doing [...]? This is so simple.” The camera was huge. It was massive at the time. Even three months later, I couldn’t find an actual camera to do it. What I was doing was going to the room and taking 100 shots everywhere and then stitching it together. For one image it was taking way too long. At Christmas time, I was in London, closed the business down, before virtual reality [...]. It can be done. I was walking up the high street in London and I just thought, “I need to find something simple, cheap, to get the job done, and save me more time.” I just went on the phone, I looked at my phone, and I found a local supplier that had the Ricoh 360 camera. It has just been released. I went out and picked it up, and from that point in time, everything I did for real estate, for property had a 360 video. And went then into step two, and I made sure that all the rental properties had a normal video, just with a smartphone or SLR. From that moment on, when I brought the 360 camera, I really hit all our properties hard. Before I go with 360 virtual reality and video, a lot of people that I speak to, they go out and buy the camera, they’ll do one tour which generally happens after the tenant has vacated and they’ve already had marketing for 4–6 weeks, they’ll do the tour and they’ll say, “You know what? Michael, I tried that. It’s not for me. Didn’t help me get a tenant. It was no good.” That’s the biggest feedback I had. That’s cool. That’s fine. But for me, I want to persevere. I made sure that every single property we came up for rent, had a 360 virtual tour. Also in the start, it didn’t help with every single property because I had marketed without photos for four weeks prior, and I was able to find tenants thereabouts, most often than not. With the 360 virtual tours, it was the next time that it came up for rent. A tenant would give me notice to vacate. The day they gave me notice to vacate, the virtual tour went up on all the real estate platforms that are out there. We have the video and we have our photos which are okay. They’re good, they’re okay. But from day one, people could start to see the property without me having to worry about booking an open for inspection and the condition of the property is all boxed up, or the whole family’s home or whatever excuse the tenant was, people could start to see the property. That started to change things. Just to reiterate, if you’re starting off, you have a property that’s coming up for rent, the tenant’s moving out, you can do the 360 tour afterwards. You may not get the hyper result that you’re expecting. Don’t stress. Replicate it on every single property you’ve got and you will start to see massive change from the next time it’s for rent and every time after that. Don’t stress. Give it time. People fail because they give up straight away. Jason: And then each new door that you’re getting on, you’re going to do the virtual tour at the beginning so you’ll have that moving forward. Michael: Correct. I got to the point where if a tenant gave notice to vacate, I went in there, and I do the 360 tour with all the furniture in there as it was. I didn’t put that on publicly but I was able to show people with the tenant’s permission, just give them a link, and remove the link after they see it afterwards. I wouldn’t get it publicly on the real estate platforms but I would have the tour and I would give it to people. That changed everything, too. Tenants were okay with that because you can edit the 360 images to blur out photos in the wall and things like that. That was pretty good. I also just did on the iPhone walk-through videos that I could also comment on. I would take just photos, too. We had over 85% of our real estate booked on virtual platform. Can you imagine, Jason, having 85% of your business, that people can view the property without you having to worry about putting a lot box on, be physically attending the property, and having the issue of staff or even yourself going to have to show that property multiple times? To touch on that, we were averaging at 1.8 showings per property and I’ve got to cancel one showing per property on average. Jason: No kidding. Michael: Huge time savings. If you were to quantify that and you’re breaking out 15 properties a month, let’s say, that’s like $150,000 saving in a year, of time and profit based on our letting fees. Our letting fees are small than American letting fees. It’d be significantly higher in America but for us, it’s about $150,000 just the base saving in 15 properties a month. Jason: Oh, yeah. So, the cost savings compared to the cost of getting the digital cameras and maybe the little bit of work and labor that would take to get these virtual tours done and everything, it was an obvious no brainer, financially. Michael: Obviously, yeah. For me at the start, I would have spent a couple of thousand dollars, maybe more, trying to really solve it. I have a lot of cameras now, a lot of VR, a lot of 360 cameras, and I’m still using the same one that I bought years ago which was the Ricoh. But I’m trying to find the next camera that gives me more depth immersion like the Matterport but something that fits in my pocket. So, for me to do it, if it does not fit in my pocket, I’m not going to take it with me. The Ricoh fits in the pocket. I think it’s $170 or something like that on Amazon. A tripod is $30 or $40 on Amazon. To host 22 platforms of the year is $20. The platform that I use is Vieweet It’s one of the cheapest one out there. It’s robust, it’s simple, it’s no frills. If you’re an agency, you’re just starting out, and you’re looking for cheap ways to do 360 automated showings, $130 for the camera, $30 for the tripod, $20 a year to list 20 showings that you can put up and take down. A lot of people don’t have more than 20 properties available all at once. Jason: It's called Vieweet? Michael: Yes. If you're in $200-$250 US, you can be up and running today to do these things. But just remember, you may not get that sprinkled dust straight away. It’s something where you build that new catalog that does work. Results have been quite fast because I kept at it and you will, I can’t say, you'll get the same if not similar results that I was getting because what it all sold for us—that’s just kind of the odd part of things, Jason. Our property to more people around the world in different that [...] the property. Rather than having to rely on people to come into a lock box or view the property physically, they may not have been the best quality tenant. Rather than giving the best to the bad bunch, we’re able to give it to the best of everyone. Anyone who wants to see it within the markets to high-end income, at least they could go to relocation consultants that were actually being paid by people to come into the country to show them properties. We were showing it to the people before they go to relocation agencies in the end. If they will apply, they would inquire, “Hi, Michael. I'm actually relocating from America or Europe. I'll be there next month, try to arrange a viewing.” I’ll send in the link. They view the property. They don’t need to worry about looking at 10 properties when they get here. We can do the process, we can get them out of Skype or Zoom. At the end of the day, good tenants can go bad. Make sure you get landlord insurance if you can get that. We were so efficient with what we did and that’s probably for another conversation, but we got rent arrears to 0%. Not only will we have to get the best tenants in the marketplace, we get the best tenants that could afford to pay rent and not have any arrears and it solved a massive problem for us too. We are probably at about I think 3½ of rent arrears sometimes because people, they’re just lazy. By changing the type of tenants that we had, also made all the knock on effects that we had so that our arrears is 0% vacancy because we’re able to work credibly with our leases to make sure that longer leases we had better type of tenants. We’re also able to mesh the type of tenants to the property. For example, if we have an application that was someone 50 years plus as opposed to 18-25 year olds. An 18-25 year old would be more transient and they wouldn’t stay on the property for a long period of time, maybe 12 months. But someone who’s older is typically settling down, they don’t want to be moving around everywhere. We have a bit of a tenant selection too. Jason: I realized it might be a little different in Australia than here though. Michael: Well, what we did inside the office, we can verbalize it to the people that apply. Jason: Got it. Michael: No one from Australia is watching this, yeah? No tenants that I had. Jason: Right. This all makes a lot of sense. You have 0% vacancy rate. You’re renting out some of these places before they're even vacant because you're marketing them from the second there's a notice. You're getting people out of state or out of country that are able to look at it. I think it’s brilliant that you've got partnerships you've created in alignment with relocation agencies and relocation agents. I think that's sharp. All of this sounds really fascinating and this is something that anybody can do. Michael: Anyone can do it. Even like staff members. You’ve got people who work for bosses, there's no reason why [...] to help automate your showing. If a virtual tour or a video, or someone contact you at 10:00 o’clock at night and you're this type of person that picks up the phone at 10:00 o’clock and tries to make a time, you can send them link that’ll pre-qualify them. The good thing about UVR, it shows you the room, the whole room. They can be looking at the whole kitchen. They can be looking at the whole bathroom for so many times you go online and you just see a corner of the bathroom which shows the tiles, the toilet, the shower, and the bath. It eradicates all of that, it’s gone. I think I showed you too, when we got to the actual property, the other headache was, I'm not sure if my table would fit, or the fridge might fit in the cavity so then we included an incorporated AR, so the augmented reality which was just another boat. With the AR, you can record the screen, so you can be at the property while it’s taken and actually do a video recording of, “This is where your catch goes. This is where the fridge goes, and the TV goes,” and put the furniture down. Then you can send that video to people too when they inquire about, “Will it fit a king sofa bed, or what size is the fridge cavity?” Because people are visual, mostly. Jason: How are you doing that? How are you putting in beds, virtual beds and things like this into a video? Michael: The app that I use is a free app. I love this stuff. It isn’t going to cost anyone here. Housecraft. Now that’s free augmented reality application. Jason: Housecraft, it sounds like witchcraft, it’s like magic. Housecraft, okay. Michael: It is magic. Again, I have all these tools because they're objection handlers. I don't need to over complicate things because then it just starts making problems. These are free things that anyone can be using. Anyone can do anything that I've been doing. None of it is hard. It’s just I have a better use of my time. Jason: Yeah. You’re using Housecraft, you're using Vieweet, you’ve got your Ricoh camera, are there any other technological tools that help you automate the showing thing? Michael: Basically, how it would work for us was a tenant will give notice to vacate or we would have a brand new property come on. We would have the tour or take the tour. We would put that as a link on a description. A lot of the feedback I had from people around the world was, our property software, our showing software doesn't allow us to put a hyperlink in there. We just put it in the ads, we put it in the ad there too. We had every second photo for us was, “Did you know this property is in virtual reality? Make sure you click on the link in the description.” When people are looking on their smart device, because most people are probably looking ad property searches from their mobiles, it’s important that we could grab their attention with a nice bit of photo, grab their attention saying, “Hey, we've got a virtual tour, or a video, make sure you look at it and prequalify.” Rather than coming to the property and saying it’s for them. If someone did call and inquire the questions was, “Great. Have you seen the virtual tour?” If it was no, it’s like, “Okay, here’s the virtual tour,” and they all had to see it. We would not go to a property unless the person had seen the virtual tour. Jason: Right. Virtual tour first and then if you've watched that and it's still a go, then we will show you the property. Michael: Correct. When we did that, when we went to the property, we knew that it was really just a case of them checking if there's a smell, just their general feel, their juju. It was basically they’re going to apply for the property. Typically, if I went to the property, there's a 93% chance they got the property, and it was 96% that they would apply or they’d rent the property. Jason: Because the virtual tours have filtered out so much. Michael: Prequalified. Jason: Now, in the photos where you doing stuff like box brownie and like this kind of stuff or are we just getting photos? Michael: We change it to make sure that the header photo, the main photo in this sort of style—we’d have a blue sky, green grass—it was just a nice attractive image so that people would click on that, like a clickbait basically. It'll look nice, they click on it, and then the next image was the virtual tour. They knew that there was a virtual tour there and then there are the other photos. They were the only photos that were relevant like the way you actually see the room. If you couldn’t see the room or it was cut off, we wouldn’t show it, because the virtual tour was going to show the property in its entirety. This just meant that I would not put 20 photos up of a half-baked house when I can put three photos up, a virtual tour video, and a walkthrough video—far greater impact. That’s why we’re leasing properties four times faster than our competitors, and we were getting more than double the amount of views on all our properties according to realestate.com.au which is a massive property platform in Australia. What we were doing was, no major cost difference to competitors, but we were getting twice the people looking at our property, and four times faster with being leased. Jason: Michael, this sounds really incredible. Having all these stuff in place, it sounds really low cost, and it sounds like it actually saves you a ton of time, and a ton of money to get these things implemented. Now, what I love to do is connect this to how is this helping you grow your business. Obviously, it’s reducing cost, it's reducing staff, but this sounds like a huge competitive advantage selling point when you're pitching to new owners to say, “We have zero vacancy rate. We’re managing hundreds of properties…” which is unheard of in our industry, “…and we can we can get this thing taken care of and lease it out really rapidly. I've got the cameras on me, I'm ready to go. Let’s do this.” Michael: Correct. There’s a lot of white noise and noise generally in property management. When you're going to a listing presentation, it runs based on the same topics. “We collect rent. We have low vacancy. We are fantastic. We have good systems.” You can basically walk into a presentation and know verbatim what people are going to saying. If somebody inquired about renting out a property, they will get an email from me with our reviews, true statements, and things that we do differently. When I would go to the appraisal, I wouldn't actually bring anything other than a set of virtual reality goggles. For me, I didn’t go in with a booklet. Everyone kind of expects you to walk in with a booklet and pamphlet like all your competitors do. But me, it’s straight away, “Let's work on that trust that rapport with the owner.” I would walk into the presentation, I put the virtual goggles down the table which is a gimmick, they're a gimmick, and then I put them on the table and then I say, “Mr. and Mrs. Landlord, so tell me, what do you love about your property? What are the tenants going to love about the property? What would you do differently to the property that tenants might also think that they wouldn’t want changed?” I get them speaking about it. None of it is about my fees, none of it is about my service, none of it is about anything else about me, it’s just about them. Then it gets to the point where, “I can totally see why people fall in love in this property and it's so important that we show people what this property actually offers. Here are a couple of ways that we can do that.” Bear in mind, by the time they've already got to ask and called us, they've gone and seen our Google reviews. They've seen our social profile. They’ve already assessed us when they make the phone call. Jason: Sure. Michael: It’s so important that you’ve got some social proof and some history there. If you're just starting out as an agent, get reviews, get some social proof because you really are fantastic. As people, we’re fantastic, and there's so many great attributes. If you're starting fresh, you don't have to look fresh. Jason, you're helping build websites. You can make someone who's just starting out look as a major player in the marketplace. Jason: Absolutely. I tell potential clients, there's no reason why a company with zero doors or even five doors has to look any different than a company with a 1000 doors. They can have just as good a branding, just as good of a website, and we can help them with the reputation stuff. We have our service gatherkudos.com for those listening that you can check out, which helps you facilitate or lubricate I guess if you will, that process of getting more reviews from clients. Michael: There's no reason why you can’t. “I don’t have clients to get reviews.” “I'm sure you've done business with people before and they can leave you reviews.” That’s all you need, just that momentum. From the time that we’re meeting with them, they know a little bit about us. I'm not concerned about any other services because they all know that we collect rent, and we find tenants, and we manage maintenance, and we do all that stuff. It's going to the owners that we will love their property, and really focus on the things that they love also, and identify the weaknesses of the property too because it’s important for us at the start the owners to acknowledge their property may have some shortcomings. They wouldn’t have to have that awkward conversation later. The prospective tenants said that, “I like the pink wall in the kitchen.” We get the owners to draw out what they think is needed in the start, and then it sets the time. Then I bring out the virtual goggles, and I say, “This is one way that people are really going to immerse themselves in your property from their own lounge room. We also had virtual goggles and Oculus Rift in our office, so when people came in and they want to get a rental list, we stop giving out paper and we would say, “What are you after? A three-bedroom, two-bedroom?” And give them the goggles, and show them a property. We have far greater success than coming in, picking up some paper in the office, leaving, throwing it in the bin later on for one property they might be interested in. We cut down on paper too, Jason. That was a pretty good experience. We went paperless. For new owners, they could say that we were focused on serving the customer, rather than they burdened with admin and just a slow death in a real estate office. We could show them some of the other tours we've done. We were doing drone work too Jason, where we would showcase the aerial view of the property in proximity to shops because that was another question that people would say, “Probably looks great, but what's it near?” In Australia, with Google maps, sometimes, they hadn't caught up, so the area would look like just massive farmland, but actually, they’ve built up a state with shopping malls, and freeways going through it. We take aerial shot, and show it from what it was near. With owners, I think, I was at 140 doors and 141 appraisals. Jason: You show up for these initial contacts at the property, or these appraisals, or whatever you're doing, and you would pull out virtual reality goggles, and set your camera there, and start describing what you do. Michael: Correct. Now, fast forward a few more years, we didn’t have to go to the property anymore, because I had the virtual tours online, and people can see them, and it would tie on my websites, so people could see that too, and they got to the point where people would make an inquiry, and I will send them a video message. They're already seeing all the proof statements, and a video message to start the initial conversation. I didn't have to meet all these owners, I try to meet all the owners. Sometimes I make time for if they're interstate, they were overseas, whatever the reason. I found other ways to get inside the living room without being in their living room. You have the virtual tours, and then you get the video text messages, and a lot of people will say, “I’m too scared to do a video text message. What if I say the wrong thing?” I say, “It's easy, don’t send it. Just do it again.” Jason: Right, re-record it. Michael: If you're doing a video, you can edit it. If it’s not live, edit. If it’s live, I’d say laugh. So what? Make a mistake, we’re human. I will make the same mistake speaking with you, as I would do on a video. Recapping on it, our process was, every property had to have a virtual tour. When I had the staff, they weren't happy going out and taking a virtual tour, because it would take them between 15 minutes to 30 minutes, maybe depending on how many rooms there were. It's a very fast process to take photos and then you just copy them on to the Vieweet platform, and you put the hyperlinks, the hotspots, and the tour is done. The tour might take you 45 minutes to do. For me, that's no problem at all, if it’s a big one. If it’s small one bedroom place, might take you five minutes to stitch it together. It just depends. The more you do it, the faster you become. Every property had the virtual tour, had the video, had some updated photos. It just meant that as a tenant, trying to select for the property, all the problems were answered. As an owner, we're now looking at other agents online who’s going to rent out their property, they can take the methodical process of photo, virtual tour, application form. That’s very simple process. We then are going to back it up with proof statements, like the rent is zero vacancy. All those other things that were important, because if you guys are doing an appraisal and start just reeling off everything you do, you're the same as everyone else, but if you can show proof statements, then it's 97% there. Jason: Love it. You can easily send a video introducing yourself, and you can send them link to a page of video testimonials from clients. If you can give them all the social proof, and you say, “Look at how we market the properties.” Send them the link to your rental listings. “Here's an example. Here's a property similar to yours maybe.” Suddenly, they can imagine all of it, they can see it, and it becomes real to them. This becomes this huge competitive advantage in this huge differentiator between you, and other property management companies, and then it's allowing you to close more deals. I would imagine it facilitates word-of-mouth, because people are going to talk about you because they're probably impressed. I would be impressive if somebody showed up with goggles, and camera, and show me tours, and sent me a video text message. I'd be like, “These guys are on top of things, and they're tech savvy, and they're going to take care of me out of the gate.” Michael: I guess one of the great things is, I won't mention the exact pricing, but we were full fee. We weren’t competing with, “But that agent is offering a cheaper fee,” anymore. We’re full fee, we’re doing full leasing fee for management estate. In Australia, we can't charge as many fees as you can in America. I wish we could, but we were full fees. I was maximizing every potential fee that I could, so routine inspection fees, higher statement fees. We were full fees, we don’t have to compete with someone. I remember when I started, Jason, and I’m trying to get traction, I sent out a thousand flyers to people and offered a low management fee to people for three months. I got one person out of the thousand that I sent out, that was great, because there were multiple referring client. But starting out, thinking that I have to charge something low, so that I can get in front of more people was one of the biggest crazy thoughts that I had at the very start. Jason: It's one of the most common beginner pitfalls is, “I need to be cheaper than everybody else to get started and to compete.” Michael: Yeah. If I just realized back over 10 years ago that my value proposition had to change. Jason: Yeah. Michael: “Not with my fees but with my value proposition. How do I not complicate it? Now, I no longer have any other office. I work from a home office. I've restructured because I don’t want to have physical staff. I've got VAs that do all the menial tasks. All the properties that we have are on the virtual platform. I've got no properties arranged at the moment. No rent arrears. Last year, I was abroad seven months of the year. I was in Turkey for two months, Indonesia for two months, in and out of America, or like interstate. I traveled a lot. This year, maybe four months of the year. If I get a new business, I will have someone go and do the virtual tool for me. I’ll train a simple person who doesn't want to do anything else if I'm not around. I enjoy going to the properties and checking them out. I'm a bit of a property nerd, I like checking them out, seeing how we can add value and connecting. The most important thing for me as an agency was to make sure that we have meaningful conversations, getting rid of all the clutter and all the noise. Instead, we will focus on the good happy goals, the meaningful connections, making sure that we can add value to our customers and our clients. That was our end result, to have that meaningful connection. The rest just all falls into place, it’s all systems. Jason: You didn't go into it thinking, “I just want to automate everything to the nines.” Your core end goal was, “We want to have meaningful connections,” and then, “I want to have freedom as I'm doing this,” to just focus on that. Michael: Yeah. Automating it just allows the opportunity to spend more time with people. Jason: I love it. Michael: It wasn't to make it so easy that I could travel a lot. It just meant that I need to get better connections. I pick up properties from going overseas. So many Americans travel. I've been in Europe and picked up a new management system [...] abroad. It gives me that flexibility. Also, you get to actually get new systems. People do things differently, so go out and see how other people are doing things to make their businesses better and how can you implement it in your business. It’s so important. Jason: Yeah. I think I heard a quote the other day that was, “Travel is the language of peace.” The amount of tolerance, and learning, and growth that happens just from being in different environments and different cultures, I remember taking a trip to Israel and it just was so different than what I was used to in the US. Even the checkpoints where kids were holding machine guns. It was just all so different and it was just really eye opening. I've been in Mexico, very different. You’ve been exposed to so many different cultures. You get to really fill your soul with having this variety in life. I think that's part of why a lot of people are in property management. They love that unique variety. There's all these different unique challenges that come with it. There’s all these unique opportunities to meet unique people. You really got to focus on the even best and highest portions of that by being able to treat that freedom. Michael: Don't be scared of doing anything. Don’t be scared of making mistakes. Trial it. If it’s not 360 for someone, if it’s not video for someone. Go ahead and trial things and see how it can give you that freedom, but also to be able to engage with people, family, and friends. Imagine if you live in a suburb and you've got a sports club, a church, a local pub, or whatever you’ve got, all these meeting places but you never get to go there because you're so busy trying to do the admin. You're a local real estate agent and you're not even able to local. Flip that upside down. Imagine if you're a local real estate agent doing local things because you have all these other things automated and being done for you while you're networking, and meeting, and engaging with people in your area. Imagine for a second how different that looks. Jason: Yeah, I love it. I think, Michael, everybody listening has probably by now hopefully felt a little bit inspired that there's this possibility that you've painted for them that is probably for a lot of property manager still outside the current world view. I think that's exciting. I appreciate you coming on the show. How can people get in touch with you and what sort of take away would you want to leave them with? Michael: Well, if you’ve got any questions about anything we've spoken about today, just hit me up on Facebook and send me a message and I'll respond that way. It’s probably the easiest way rather than giving you a cell number or an email, just go to Facebook, we can connect there. I'm on messenger, it’s the simplest way. Again, I guess the constant message that we've been discussing today is try it; don’t give up, try new things that may automate your business and give you more time tomorrow even though you’re spending more time today to get it done. Jason: Perfect. This is an episode I will hope that people will listen to more than once. Michael, I appreciate you coming on the show. Michael: You're welcome. Jason: I think you gave a lot of value. I'm grateful to you. Thanks for being here and sharing so many ideas. Michael: Thank you. Jason: Alright, cool. That was really fun for me as a nerd to have Michael on. Message him through Facebook. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors and make a difference, as I said in the intro, then you should be a part of our community. You would love it in there. Make sure you join the DoorGrow Club. You can get into that by going to doorgrowclub.com. Our Facebook group, there's really cool people in there like Michael, and there's just some phenomenal helpful property managers. People that buy into this vision that good property management can change the world. That what the industry needs here, especially in the US is collaboration over competition. These are people that are willing to collaborate, willing to help, willing to support you. Make sure you get inside the DoorGrow Club Facebook group and check it out. If you join that group, if you apply and join that group, it's free, but you have to apply. We will give you some free gifts including a fee bible and some other really cool takeaways and gifts over the next few days after we welcome you to the group, just to welcome you aboard, part of our Facebook group. Check that out at doorgrowclub.com. Until next time everybody, to our mutual growth. Bye everybody.  

Do you overcomplicate things? Try to automate and systemize everything? Focus too much on drip emails, SEO, or pay-per-click (PPC)? Then, you’re missing the most important element in property management: Taking care of people and property. People don’t buy property management. They buy into a relationship with a property manager. Today, I am talking with Patty Young of Pearson Smith Realty. She describes how technology has its benefits, but building relationships and being there when someone needs you is the key to success and growth in the property management business. You'll Learn... [03:40] Grow a property management business by talking to people and being available on the phone; avoid complicated conversations by being confident and authentic. [05:38] Pain and pleasures of solving their problems; property managers close deals by asking more than talking. [09:07] Understand and categorize personality types; don’t stereotype, but figure out where they are to know how to make them feel better. [11:05] Why are you reaching out to get property management now? Determine what’s driving their decision making to reach out for help. [13:18] Create opportunities to start relationships by giving away a value and your free time to help people; find events to attend and places to volunteer. [15:52] Actively create business by being dedicated and disciplined; schedule time every day for prospecting. [17:53] Growing too fast isn’t always good; only take on what you can effectively manage and avoid sales lumps by creating consistency. [21:53] Ratio between level of connection and intimacy in sales situation and close rate is not about how many people show up, but how well you connect with them. [23:10] “Why don’t you like me? What made you decide to go with them and not me?”; ask for feedback to make your business better and leave the door open for the future. [32:33] Showcase your expertise and stay on top of what’s happening in the industry; don’t listen to people telling you things that aren’t from a real source. [39:08] Shift yourself with any prospect or referral partner into being an advice-giver; you’re in a position of authority and trust, which is what creates sales. [44:34] Be aware of applications that come in where person froze their account due to bad credit history and to bypass your system. Tweetables Solicit and close deals by asking more than talking. Be yourself, be a person, and listen. You can’t sit back and relax. There’s no relax. You’ve got to keep it going. Needy in sales is creepy. Resources Patty Young’s Email Address Patty Young on Facebook Crowdcast NARPM DoorGrowClub Facebook Group DoorGrowLive  Transcript Jason: Welcome, DoorGrow Hackers, to the DoorGrow Show. If you are a property management entrepreneur that wants to add doors, make a difference, increase revenue, help others, impact lives and you are interested in growing your business and life, and you are open to doing things a bit differently, then you are a DoorGrow Hacker. DoorGrow Hackers love the opportunities, daily variety, unique challenges and freedom that property management brings. Many in real estate think you’re crazy for doing it. You think they’re crazy for not because you realize that property management is the ultimate high-trust gateway to real estate deals, relationships and residual income. At DoorGrow, we are on a mission to transform property management businesses and their owners. We want to transform the industry, eliminate the BS, build awareness, change perception, expand the market and help the best property management entrepreneurs win. I’m your host, Property Management Growth Expert, Jason Hull, the founder and CEO of DoorGrow. Now, let’s get into the show. I have a special guest. We’re hanging out with Patty Young. Patty, welcome to the DoorGrow Show. Patty: Thank you. I’m happy to be here. Jason: Patty, you are with a company called Pearson Smith Realty. Maybe you could give everyone a little bit of background on your experience in property management. How’d you get into this? Patty: Oh, good lord. Many, many years ago, I won’t give out my age, I’ve always liked real estate and just renting property and I was living in Montana at the time. I thought, “You know what? This can’t be that bad. Let’s try this out,” and so I met this fellow who owned a complex and that’s where it all started. Jason: Were those famous last words? Patty: No, I guess I’m one of the old people that started this long before we had cell phones and technology, Crowdcast and all those kinds of stuff so it’s really been interesting watching it grow. Jason: I want people to realize that you have single handedly helped out a lot of doors to some property management businesses. Tell everybody a little bit about your BDM sort of experience. Patty: I’ve done the franchise route. That’s where I met you many years ago. I did that and grew it and worked with a lot of people in the franchise, which is great, and I was able to do a lot of training. I’m a teacher by trade so I go back to—property management, I think, are protectors to some degree, and so the educating, teaching and trying to explain how to do things is just at the root of what I do. I got to do a lot of training in the franchise world of property management and just kind of kept growing and growing, and it just seemed to make more and more sense. Jason: While you were working at that franchise, I think you added maybe about 600 or 700 units to the franchise. Patty: Yeah, in about four years. Jason: I’m trying to help you brag about yourself a little bit in a relatively short period of time. I think everybody listening would be curious, what are some of the things you’ve done to help grow a property management business just as one of the big challenges? Patty: One of the big things is talking. You’ve got to be available on the phone and talking to people. All of this technology’s great, having drip emails and all that kind of stuff, but it comes down to the real relationship and being there when they need you. It’s not the SEOs. It’s not all that stuff; it’s about a real person needing real services and being able to help them when they need them. That’s the basis of what we do. Jason: Absolutely. I think, a lot of times, we overcomplicate things in property management and we think we’ve got to automate everything, we’ve got to systemize everything and we’ve got to create a bunch of drip emails, we’ve got to do SEO, we’ve got to do pay-per-click. We’ve got all these crazy things that we’re trying to implement and do, and then the challenge is that we’re missing the most important element, which, in property management, if you are a protector, you are taking care of people, and taking care of property. People don’t buy property management; they really buy into a relationship with a property manager, and I think we lose sight of that. Sometimes,we think, “I’m trying to sell my business to them,” and, really, they’re not trying to buy your business. What they’re trying to buy into is whether or not they can trust you to take care of their property. Patty: Exactly. I think people are not confident enough sometimes and they think, “I’ve got to talk, and talk, and talk,” and you never stop breathing and then you just become an elevator speech and everybody’s saying, “You’ve just got to be yourself. You’ve got to be confident, you’ve got to feel good about what you do in the service that you provide, and the rest comes.” It is crazy how complicated people make it. Jason: It would probably be true, then, to say as a property manager if you’re working on closing a deal or soliciting somebody to hopefully get their business that you need to be asking a lot of questions. Patty: You need to be asking more than you’re talking. You need them to talk. You need them to tell you where they’re scared, where you can come in to help them and where you can support their needs. That’s what they want to hear even though that’s not what you’re hearing them ask. Jason: What are your favorite questions to ask, then, during that sort of sales process or maybe even in initial conversations to really identify where they’re at and whether or not you can close that deal? Patty: I want to get a report going as quickly as possible. “So, tell me about yourself.” That’s kind of like the first thing, and they will start talking, and they’ll tell you, “Oh, I just had it and got it today. I’m moving to California. I’m coming up by you,” and he’s got to move, and he’s got this house, and there’s no way he could sell it because he just bought it, and you just let them go. They will start answering all the questions themselves when you ask them, “Just tell me about yourself. What time would I mail? How can we support your needs? What is it you need?” and let them ramble out. Once they ramble it out, in your head, you’re already knowing how to answer those questions that they—the holes in your life that you can plug. Jason: Yeah. They’ll start to help you identify some of their pain points. They’ll start maybe even giving you some clue as to what they want. Really, the two things you need to know to close a deal are, “What problems do they have that you can solve? What’s their pain?” and, “What do they want?” and that’s the outcome of solving that problem, the pain and the pleasures. If you have those two pieces, those elements, that can be really effective. I think, a lot of times during the sales process, if we get too caught up on our own voice and what we want to say to them, we miss really digging into that pain because the stronger we can really identify that pain and really connect with it, and the stronger we can really connect with what they want and really get clear on that, and help them be really hyper aware of those things, the easier it is to close a deal, but if we go, “Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,” and gloss over it and move on to what we feel like we need to tell them or we want to say as a salesperson, then what ends up happening is they start tuning out, they are thinking you’re just a commodity like, “You’re all the same. Every property manager’s the same,” and they’re probably heard that from most of the people they’ve talked to. “Well, we do this, and here’s our fees, and here’s how we do it, and we’re going to do this. We’ll come out to your property,” and they’re thinking, “Well, what about my problem?” Patty: Right, and you just sound like a recording like everybody else. No. The one I had today, he was asking about going to California. I said, “Well, great. What’s prompting you to move? Is it a job? Are you from there? Tell me about your trip to California and this new chapter in your life,” and then, all of a sudden, it all just comes tumbling out. In allowing them to talk and then, at the right time, knowing when to—and you’re not going to know until you know. Now, every human, luckily, is different and all that good stuff, and some people are your very Excel Spreadsheet-of-the-World, some are the technical people, some are more like, “Where’s the pictures?” or whatever, but you don’t even know what they are so stop trying to sell that until you even identify what it is. Jason: Do you feel like, over time, you’ve become really astute at understanding different personality types? Because what it sounds like what you’re saying is you’re taking some time to get to know them to build rapport, but it sounds like you’ve kind of categorized people a little bit in your head as certain personality types. Patty: I did. Jason: Give us some examples of some different personality types that you maybe come across that are different like this gentleman from California. How would you categorize him as different than somebody else that you might talk to? Patty: He was right to business. He doesn’t want any—he’s no fancy-pants. He just wants to know, “All right, am I going to make my numbers? Is this going to work? What is my involvement in this?” He was just so cute so when he talked about himself and told me about what his needs were, what he did for a living, and all these kinds of things. Every human is different. Now, I don’t mean to stereotype, but you have to figure out who your audience is. “Well then, great. Now I know what’s going to make this guy happy. We have this portal. Everything is there for you. You have electronic filing cabinets. You’re going to have monthly statements,” and then you go down what they’re really after that’s going to make them happy. If it’s a person who is more about, “Oh my gosh, I’m so worried my house is going to be torn up,” or if their baby, and they just built, and they picked out every cabinet and all that kind of stuff, it’s a different, softer approach because now you’re dealing with the emotional side of the client. So you have to figure out where they are because you don’t know how to make them feel better unless you know whether it’s making them anxious. Jason: Got it. Some people might be a little more on the analytical side, they might be a little more concerned about the numbers, you might have some people that are a bit more on the emotional side, maybe the property is connected to a family member or there’s some history there emotionally or there’s some sort of pain that they’re in, emotionally, that is connected to this. One of my favorite follow-up questions during the sales process after I initially connect with people and get familiar with their situation is to ask, “Why now,” which is a great question just to identify, like, “So you’ve had this property for a while. Why now? Why is this an issue now?” and then I get a whole different set of answers a lot of times. Why now? Why now are you reaching out to get property management? You’ve obviously had this for a little while and maybe you’ve been self-managing. What’s sort of driving this? Then you’re going to get even more insight they’re going to share with you, and that’s where, usually, I get the real pain answers, when I ask that question. I’ve heard anything from, “I have cancer,” or, “My family member just died.” To not know that information and to just keep plowing forward in the sales process almost seems insensitive sometimes when you get to the bedrock of what’s driving their decision-making to reach out for help right now. Patty: Absolutely. Now, this guy, obviously, he’s very excited. He’s got a position in California so he’s changing coasts. He’s not happy about having to pick up and move his family, but it’s okay because he’s leaving winter behind. He’s happy to get rid of our cold. We’ve got more snow coming. That makes him very happy so that piece of it is good for him but then with that move comes the hardship because his brother is here. You have that to go with. "Maybe I can just have my brother do it,” and that comes into play as your why. You’ve just got to be yourself, be a person and listen. If you’re just a person listening versus this façade as some person who’s just doing their job, walking in, you’ve got to be confident and you’ve got to care. Jason: All right. If you’re confident and you care, what are some other ways that you are creating opportunities to start these relationships? Because I think a lot of people are like, and I hear this all the time, “If I just get people on the phone, I can close them. I close everybody,” which usually means they’re closing all the word-of-mouth leads, which are easy to close, but the real concern they have is, “How do I get more conversations?” How are you creating opportunities to have these relationships instead of just waiting for them to come to you? Patty: You’ve got to put yourself in positions with other people so I do that through teaching. I’m giving away a value to a lot of different offices. I’m giving away a value. I do a lot of different speaking engagements for free, no charges, because, in doing so, then, one, they look at you as an expert, two, you’re willing to give your free time and to help people and talk with them, and you’ve just got to find places in your communities to rise above and be there to volunteer. I look at it as I’m a farmer. It took me a long time to grow up and figure out, “Where am I going to be? I’m a farmer.” I like to grow businesses. I like to grow relationships. What’s a farmer’s duty? There’s different kinds of farms. You can farm neighborhoods. You can farm HOAs. You can manage those if you want to. I personally like HOAs, and a lot of people do manage those. Are you doing more of a commercial management or residential? There’s different audiences. Are you looking for investors? You have to think somewhat here, and maybe you want to level up, but you’re going to have to set a plan to decide where you’re going to farm and where you’re going to get these people from. Then, once you do it, one of the duties or tasks, if you will, of farmer is you get animals now. Okay, property managers, what kind of animals do you want? Are you raising these investors? Are you doing accidental landlords? Are you looking for trustees? I’m one of them. One of our animal’s realtors. Some of those are big brokers, but I do go to a lot of real estate events and I do a lot of talking and a lot of chatting. You can do NARPM events. You can do realtor associations. There’s just so many different places that things are happening. You’ve just got to get out of the chair and be out there where the people are because they’re not going to find you in your seat while you’re still there talking on the phone. Jason: Right. I think one of the big challenges is that there’s so much opportunity in the property management industry. There’s such a high percentage in the US that are not using property management that are self-managing and yet you have so many property managers that are just looking over their shoulders back and forth and everybody else going, “What are you doing to wait for leads and wait for business to come to you?” They’re hoping that they can take money and just hand it to a marketer and suddenly people will just walk in the door and say, “Take my money.” You’re out there actively doing what a coach likes to do. You’re actively out there creating business instead of waiting for it to come to you. Patty: Eventually, it comes to you. Once you get enough to go in and you become—yes, you can get that going. Every day, you should have prospecting time, whatever that is. If you’re going to spend two hours every day or whatever it is you want to grow to or do, that’s your call. But you’ve got to have that dedication and that discipline to do it because if you don’t, then time just slips on by. Jason: Let’s create a little bit of perspective here. It’s taken you a little while, but when you start out in a new market, which you’ve done several times, and you decide you’re a farmer using this analogy and it’s time to farm, and you’re looking at the field and you feel like you need to get things started, how much time do you start spending in a week on prospecting or maybe in a day? Patty: Today’s world is so different from what it used to be. You’ve got meet-ups, you’ve got Crowdcast, you’ve got podcasts, and you’ve got all this stuff out there. So you’ve got to quiet the noise down, and you have to start somewhere. Don’t be afraid to start because that’s the other problem. Maybe you can just say, “I’m going to pick this neighborhood.” Okay, great. “In this neighborhood, I could do a little research and see that there are 5000 thousands in this development so how do I reach out to these people?” Okay, maybe you go and you meet the HOA people. They’ve got different events that happen so you’ll want to be part of all that. There’s usually some businesses nearby that you can be part of. Let’s say you’re going to take this area, you want to at least be putting in, at a minimum, at least three hours a day. If you’re going to do eight hours, let’s just say, I think there should be at least three hours of that as prospecting. Jason: So, probably about 15 hours in a week? Patty: Depending on how much you want to grow and how fast you want it to go because sometimes growing too fast isn’t good. Jason: Right, so then you’d be able to handle it, and manage it successfully, and deal with each new property to bring you on each—bringing on board and effectively. Patty: If you’re going to promise something, better do it. Jason: Right. Yeah. They can start farming neighborhoods. They can start reaching out. They can start hitting up some groups in the area. How much time are you spending now that you’ve kind of primed this engine in the business that you’re in now towards prospecting? Patty: Probably at least the same, if not more. There’s very little internet need-leading or any of that going on. At this point, I’m curating it. I’ve got people coming in and I talk to some, need to nurture some and all that kind of stuff, but you can never stop this. You can’t ever get happy like, “Oh well, I’ve got these three coming so I’m all good,” like a realtor will. “Oh, I’ve got these few commissions. They’re going to close them and I’m all good.” You can’t sit back and relax. There’s no relax. You’ve got to keep it going and, sometimes, it’s evening weekends or whatever it is and, of course, they’re seasonal in this, too, so you have to be watching that, but you can never stop prospecting because even if you’re happy and maybe your goal is a hundred doors and you’re happy with a hundred, they’re not going to stay with you. That rollercoaster’s going to start moving. Somebody’s going to sell. Somebody’s back. It’s constantly changing. Jason: Right. The sales has to outpace the churn, and the doors getting sold, and so on. I think you bring up a good point in that if you don’t have consistent prospecting and consistent lead-gen systems in place where you’re doing it consistently, then what ends up happening is, usually, it creates a sales slump, and those last for maybe a month to 90 days, typically, and they’re difficult to crawl out because you’ll build up the pipeline and then you have deals closing. If you get comfortable and turn that off, what you’re doing is you’re creating a problem a month or two months later in which you’re going to have a sales slump. You’re going to have less cash flow coming in and you’re going to have less new clients coming in, and it’s going to get quiet and then you’re going to hi ho Silver. You see salespeople, "Hi ho Silver," they jump on the horse and they’re like, “I’m going to ride this hard and I’m going to figure this out and do sales, sales, sales,” and then they come across almost needy. Needy in sales is creepy and then the problem is it starts to get carry for them. Patty: They’re panicking. Jason: They start to panic, and so they can avoid these sales lumps by creating some consistency even if they’re only able to dedicate a small number of hours a day or even just an hour a day, as long as they have some consistency throughout the week that they don’t just shut it off for half the month or shut it off for a month, they should consistently be able to generate leads. They have no control when those deals will really close. If they aren’t doing it, those deals won’t be closing. Patty: Yeah, they’re zero. In the classes that I teach and things, I might get one or two leads that day and then I don’t know what’s coming. You cast out the net and you see what it brings in. I didn’t want to do it. It was early December. It was a bad time of the year, but they really wanted me to come do this and I was like, “You know what? Absolutely. I’ll be there.” Now, I didn’t think there was going to be much of a turnout but you never know, and it turned out there were four people. I was like, “Whoa, that’s pretty cool. That’s all right. I could do four. It doesn’t matter.” Out of the four, I got three so who would’ve known? It was awesome. Even the lady that was doing the events, turns out she was convinced and she decided to give me her house to manage. You never know what’s out there and if you’re not out there, you’re not getting anything. Jason: I think there’s a direct ratio between the level of connection and the level of intimacy in a sales situation and the close rate, and so it’s not just about numbers. It’s not about how many people show up but, like you said, it’s about how well you’re able to connect with those people. The smaller the group, the more intimate that communication can turn, like if you’re working with one-on-one with somebody, I’m sure it’s a very intimate conversation. It’s personally about them and their pain that we talked about in the beginning. You get three or four people, it gets a little bit more broad. If you’re doing it through an entire room, there’s some authority there and that’s nice, but you’re going to then have to do follow-up to create that intimacy and create that connection afterwards, which is really important in those situations, but you then are getting to do one of the many sales and establish yourself as an authority in front of them. Patty: And you didn’t cancel. They never expected that you’re going to cancel and bail. That would stop you from getting the next gig. These are all gigs. We’re constantly going after these gigs. You cancel one and, “Yeah, do I really want to get out there? It’s 7:00 at night. Could I maybe do more work on the site? Yeah.” No, being in front of people makes a huge difference. I’ll tell you: Some people don’t think about it, but if you’ve gone on a meeting, you’ve tried and you’ve lost, you need to ask why. At this point, “Oh, that’s fine. I have another company.” “Okay, you tell me so I can make better my business. What is it that made you decide to go with them and not with me?” It’s a hard question to ask, like, “Why don’t you like me?” but you have to ask the question. “What was it? Was it my perfume?” But you have to ask because if they say, “Well, the other guy seemed more confident.” Now, you know what to work on. You need that constructive criticism, but most people don’t want to ask because they just want to feel, “Ah, they didn’t fit anyway. I don’t want them.” They may or may not but if you don’t ask, you never know and then you can’t improve. Jason: Feeling safe asking for feedback is a huge superpower. I feel like, for business owners, not being willing to palate or not being able to palate, digest, absorb or take in feedback is a dangerous thing. I honestly feel like I’ve built my company on thousands of failures, and so being able to get feedback, make mistakes and to keep moving forward as a business owner is huge. If you don’t get a deal, there’s some awesome feedback waiting for you that you could potentially gain from them so I love that idea. Sometimes, it’s just simple as just sending an email follow-up. “Hey, honestly, could you tell me why you went with this other company? You won’t hurt my feelings. It would help us. If there’s anything that you can do to help us improve, it’d be great,” and people love sharing advice. Patty: If you put it that way, “Look, I just need a favor. I know that you’re going X, Y and Z, but I would just so be appreciative if you can give me some constructive criticism. What exactly was it? Was I 10 minutes late and you didn’t like that? Don’t you like our pricing? What is it? What swooned you? What was it?” and maybe it was just, “I have no idea. I just like this guy better.” Okay, that’s fine. I’m okay with that, but if I don’t ask, I never know, and if you don’t know, you don’t improve. It’s kind of like those, “Listen to your sales pitch,” and nobody likes to hear their own voice and no one wants to hear why they’re not picking you but you need to. Jason: Yeah. If we’re really honest with ourselves, we really do want to make money and we really do want to know. We really do want to know why they didn’t go with us, and so being willing to be vulnerable and ask for that feedback can be really powerful. Surprisingly, when you do that, it gives you ideas. It’s like, here’s how to win more business, and sometimes it’s the things that they use. The deciding factors are so simple and they’re so simple that you’re kicking yourself. You’re like, “Really? That’s it?” I mention that on every call. It’s really simple. Patty: You're not going to know if you don’t ask. You've got to ask. Jason: One of my favorite tactics, though, if I don’t get a deal, is to lead the door open for the future. “Why’d you go to somebody else?” Great, I really appreciate that feedback. “If things don’t go well with this company, you have any trouble or this happens to this, we will still be here, ready and willing to take your business and help you in the future.” I love just leaving that door open. I don’t want them to feel like, “Well, they shut the door on me and they’re dead to me.” I’m creating that anchor for the possible future because I’ve had clients go with another company, they have happened exactly what I had explained to them would happen, and they come back and like, “You were right and I would love to work with you guys.” Patty: Because they’re not ready to hear it yet. They haven’t reached the point what you’re telling them. They can’t absorb what you’re telling them yet. Jason: They don’t believe it, they haven’t experienced, and they have to go experience that. They have to go try out the cheapest property manager, the cheapest website company or the cheapest whatever, marketing firm. They’ve got to try out somebody and test out stuff because they believe they know better and then, as soon as they realize that they don’t know better, they didn’t know something, something blindsides them or they’ve run into a snag that you had kind of mentioned or foretold, you’ve created this powerful anchor that they’re going to remember you the moment that happens. Patty: Yeah, and it’s great because—you have to leave it open to the point that they’re not going to—a lot of people don’t want to ask the question why they didn’t get it. It’s the same thing; they have to be comfortable to come back to you because you’re not going to say, “I told you so,” so it has to be very open. I always say, “Look, I’m a sounding board. If anything happens in the future,” and sometimes, they’re like, “I’m going do it myself.” You have those people in the world and you have those that go to the bare minimum bones. “I’m glad they can help you for that price. It’s not something that we can do, but if something should change down the road, if you have questions or something odd comes up, you’ve got my number,” and I sit there with them. “Can you put me in your phone please?” and I make them do it while we’re there. Otherwise, they’re not going to put you in there. You’re gone. They’re going to forget so I say, “Here, put me in there,” and I watch them put my number in there if it’s not already, and if it is already, I just say, “Just put, next to my name, ‘Call her.’” He’s like, “What?” I say, “Well, down the road if something comes up, you can say, ‘Oh, yeah. It says, ‘Call her.’ You can search and find me.” They’re like, “Okay?” but it works because they do. It’s kind of like when you have a little child that they’re just not mature enough to understand maybe how to tie a shoe or whatever. They just mentally can’t do it. It just can’t happen. These people are not going to be able to get where you’re at yet, and you’ve got to understand that and it’s okay. They will mature eventually and we’ll see what happens, but making them put you in their phone is like, “Oh, I’ve got to be in that phone because they’ll never find me if I’m not on their phone.” Jason: Such a little hack and I can see how effective that would be. Yeah. As soon as you have this problem, you’re creating this anchor. “As soon as you have this problem, if you run into this or if you run into any issues, I am available for feedback. You don’t even have to remember my name. Just put, ‘Call her,’ in here and, remember, call her and just plug it in.” You walk them through, making sure they get it into their phone. They’re going to do it. They want to finish the conversation, they want to be done and you’re hanging out with them or you’re talking with them. “Enter this into your phone.” Another tactic is you could say, “What’s your phone number? I’m going to text-message you right now and then you have my phone number. Enter this number in,” or however you want to do it and just make sure you get them into the phone. Patty: That’s the new Rolodex. Jason: Then, send them a follow-up email after that and say, “Just in case you ever lose my contact details, here is my information. Here is my direct number. Reach me if you run in any problems.” I love the idea you mentioned of being a sounding board. I think a lot of property managers are so focused on getting the deal, but what they really need to start with is being a resource. Patty: Yes. Yeah. I always tell them, “You’ve got my experience at your disposal.” You’re doing your research. That’s great. We all have availabilities on our computer to do some research. “Great. I'm planning to get a roof, I’m going to do some research,” whatever it is, and that’s all great. Hey, absolutely. I'll do the same thing. I said, look, if you hear something from one of the other companies that you’re shopping or something doesn’t make sense because you’ve got to peel back some onions to get down to—how you’re really comparing here, apples to apples, call me and I’ll answer whatever it is. There’s no cost to you. You’re just going to call me and ask me a question. Usually, they do. Maybe you’ve met with them or they’re not going to be moving in for six months or it could be one of these long nurtures or whatever, they’ll come up to something. They’ll go, “Hey, someone told me this but you told me that, by the law, it was this so what really is it?” I’ll say, “Oh, absolutely. Let me send you the statutes,” and, all of a sudden, you’re on top again because they’re constantly doing the comparing. Guess what: I’ve got the law that states this is what it is. Now, Patty wins. I like it when Patty wins. Jason: I’m sure, in some of those situations, you’ve gotten the deals just because you actually showcased your expertise. They gave you that chance. Patty: Yeah, it’s amazing. Even in today’s day and age, how much out there is just make-believe and fluff. “Well, our agent said this was it,” or, “This one said this is it,” and, all of a sudden, that becomes a new law and it’s not, and there’s a lot of it out there. Unfortunately, people get away with doing stuff and they keep doing it, but they don’t invest in themselves enough to continue the training, go to classes, just become smarter or at least be updated or something. Those agents, even when I’m working with them, I can look them up at our MLS system and I look and see when something starts–you get that gut feeling. I’ll look them up and I’ll just say, “Oh, okay. Well, they haven’t done a rental deal since 1997 so now I know how better how to work with this agent to make this deal get through.” Knowing what you’re dealing with helps. Jason: How much time do you invest in making sure that you’re on top of the industry, that you know what the latest laws are, that you know what’s up with property management in your state? How much time are you investing on a regular basis towards this? How do you stay connected to all of that? Patty: I’m probably obsessed with it more than most because if we’re here—my job is to protect your property and protect you. How am I going to be done if I don’t know what all this stuff is? Actually, I was on the phone yesterday with one of the attorneys and a simple little thing, as an example—every state’s different, but the pet addendum that’s used in our state does not have a sentence it’s needed to be there that says, like a tenant signing off, “Pet does not have a bite history.” One sentence, that’s all we need. That’s it. To give the insurance companies all of our emotional support, our services and all of this, they’ve gone away from that dirty dozen. They’re not barring any animals anymore. They’re going by bite history. Why doesn’t our farm have that? I’m like, “Hello? Boo.” I do volunteer with those associations. I volunteer on education committees, on the fair housing task forces, the forms committees, all that kind of stuff, so that knowing where we need just makes sure it’s pushed through, one. Two, finding out what they’re up to and what we’re going to get is another and fighting for what we need. If you’re staying in two and you’re involved in these organizations, it’s all volunteer so you don’t have to pay for this kind of stuff, but you volunteer in NARPM and other ones. I’m heavily involved in NARPM and trying to make sure all that’s going through, but you’ve just got to find out what’s around you, volunteer and get into it. I guess I’ve never really sat down how many hours it takes; some of it just comes up and you know there’s a need for it so you know the right people to call and say, “How do I do it?” Even if you don’t know, maybe you’re brand new, and just moved here, “Okay, who’s the wielder association? Who’s the property management companies? Where’s the NARPM groups? Where’s this? Where is that?” Some of it is research. You’ve got to find out how do you know and who do you know to call. You find out and then say, “How do I volunteer to get to the meetings?” and then, pretty soon, it just builds its way from there. Jason: I’ve heard you mention a few things. You’ve mentioned you talk to an attorney so you’ve got some attorneys that you’re connected to that you leverage as resource, you mentioned NARPM which you use as a resource, you mentioned real estate or realtor association and being connected to those, and then you also mentioned doing your own research. Overall, you said you’re obsessed, and I think it’s important that if there’s one thing you should be obsessed about as a property manager, it’s being able to effectively solve people’s problems. That’s this, is to solve some of these problems. If you are obsessed with doing it correctly and solving people’s problems, that gives you a lot of confidence going into a sales conversation, I would imagine. Patty: Yeah, and there’s so many chat groups, Facebook groups and all this, but the other thing, too, is make sure that you’re not listening to the players of the world. If I’m listening to people telling me things that aren’t the real source, then I’m learning it wrong, which is the only reason I teach and I have my own real estate school is I teach it right, but if you’re listening to the wrong sources, then now what? I had a call today from a fellow. He used to own a property management company, I’ve known him for years, and he was a meeting. I won’t say which company he’s with now. Anyway, he’s just doing real estate; he’s not doing management. He goes, “Hey, I thought, years ago, when we did this and this, we weren’t allowed to give out the credit reports,” and I said, “It depends on your contract.” He said, “Yeah, but they’re saying dah, dah, dah, ” and I said, “Who are you listening to? Wait a minute. Why am I on a speaker there? When’s the next meeting?” and that was my question to him. He goes, “Oh, absolutely. Okay, can you do April?” I said, “Give me a date, Baby.” When I find out and it doesn’t matter whose name’s on the doors. When I find out that there’s stuff happening that I know is incorrect, based upon me being around the right sources and the smart people, then I want to go fix it before they all start it because when we’re running these properties, we’re very real estate-driven. Everything is done through the MLS here, so I’m going to bump into these agents. I don’t want them doing it wrong because it makes my job harder plus I want their referrals. Jason: As soon as you identify that somebody is inaccurate in maybe landlord-tenant law or in process, you leverage that as an opportunity to go and speak to them, educate and to teach, which then feeds you referrals. Patty: I attack it. I’ll bring the cookies, I’ll bring the donuts, and whatever. Let’s go. Give me a date now. Jason: They have a question and you’re like, “You have an audience? I’ll come answer that question and I’ll give even more value.” I love it. Patty: It’s funny because it all just kind of evolved. When I was doing the franchise pieces, I met a lot of great people all over the world, literally all over the world. It was special over every country and it just became—they would have something come up. “Patty, can you give me a hand? Can you help me?” “Yeah, what’s going on?” and, because we were the same franchise, it was easy for me to answer a lot of questions so I kind of became the 911 or the 411 when they would ask questions. It was awesome and then I started training with them, too, and I enjoyed it. I enjoy fixing people’s problems. I’m one of nine children so I’ve got on-the-job training, you see. My dad’s an engineer and my mom’s incredible so you learn this stuff. There’s a lot of realtors here that have called me on different things and when they call or when you work with a realtor on something, if you are dealing with them, ask them. You’ve got to ask, “What do you guys do for training?” and they’re going to come back and say, “Well, what do you mean? All we do is a rental deal.” “I know, but you do guys property management in your office?" Are you asking these questions because there's another opportunity or a source. Most people get the deal done, they move on and don’t even think twice about it, but you can get feedback. Jason: Right. You’ll ask them, “How are you handling leases? How are you handling property management-related things?” and as soon as you notice there’s problems, you use that as leverage to say, “Hey, maybe I should come teach a class for you guys. Let me come share some ideas with you.” Patty: All I need is a little crack in the door. Jason: “Got it,” and then you’re in. It’s a magical and powerful thing if you can immediately shift yourself with any prospect or referral partner into the category of an advice-giver. As soon as you’re there, you are in a position of authority and a position of trust, and that is what creates sales. Sales happens at the speed of trust, and so you can skip right to the top simply by shifting yourself and positioning yourself into a position of being able to give them advice, and that instantly establishes you as a trustworthy person in their mind that you can now give them information and value. They’re receiving information and value and once you give them value, then it’s a lot easier for you to get value from them. Patty: Yeah, and then you're going to find out too—let’s say you go to their April meeting. Okay, you’ve done their meeting. “So, can I come back next April? When’s your next meeting?” That’s usually the one you can’t stop. It’s follow-up. Our laws in Virginia change every six months. I need to come here every six months so that I can keep you guys abreast of it, right? Because the brokers don’t want to do it. You have to make sure you’re cycling there every six months. Jason: Don’t just give up. After you do it once and you’re like, “Wow, I did this. Hurray!” you might be leaving a lot on the table if you don’t just simply ask, “Can I do this again? The laws are always changing. Things are always coming out. I’d love to come right back, and I’ll put you in my calendar and follow up with you, and let’s just do it again,” and they’d probably say, “Yeah. Well, this has been great. It’s been a good experience. We would love to.” If you don’t ask, then, odds are, they’re going to be focused on their own problems, on their own business, and their own things, and they’re not just going to go, “Maybe we should invite Patty back. I wonder what’s going on in property management law lately.” Patty: They’re not going to call you unless there’s a problem. It’s like when you go to a dentist. Before you leave, they have you booked. “How are you doing in June?” or whatever. They already had you booked for the next one. Before you leave that office or whatever groupie you’re doing, you should be already booking your next event. It’s a new gig. Get that new gig set up. Jason: Cool. Really smart. What do you do at these events to make sure that you’re able to follow up and connect with people after the event? Patty: Some events, I do registrations so that I have all the information. Some don’t so if they don’t, I need to sign up. I always give a raffle giveaway put their cards in. If they don’t have cards, I have index cards that they put all their information on it. If it doesn’t have an email and a phone number, it doesn’t count; they can’t be pulled. If they want the freebie, they’re going to have put them both in, and I want them both. I want their cell phone and I need an email. Otherwise, whatever. I can find the rest out in the internet as to where you live and all that kind of stuff, but it depends on the audience. If I’m with realtors, they love their toys. They’re going to hand me their cards. I do a lot of stuff, too, that’s landlord lessons so I do a series with landlords. I have all kinds of different people come join me, different partners I’ll partner with. If it’s just a landlord, they may not have a business card. Maybe they don’t want to give me their work stuff so I always have index cards and I have them already ready to go. Phone, email, name—boom. It’s all you need. Otherwise, you can’t win this $100-giftcard and everybody wants a $100-giftcard so in they go. Jason: Cool. You’re gamifying the whole situation a little bit here just to make it joyful. Patty: Yeah. People like to want to do stuff and they want to be told. They do, too. Kids will tell you they don’t but they do. They really do and adults do, too. Did you go to the DMV? I know we don’t have to go anymore, but when you did go, I always feel like a DMV person when I'm doing the W-9 form, is they would highlight that one spot. They highlight where your name is, your phone number and all that kind of stuff. It’s great so it’s like, “Okay, here’s what I need,” and they just look at you like, “Oh, she said so,” and they fill it out and they give it to you, just tell them to do it. Jason: Yeah, they do it. “This is what I need from you. Here you go,” and they just do it. They’re like, “Okay.” You’re like the Pied Piper. Patty: Well, one of the biggest compliments I ever got and I didn’t even know is my son has become a realtor, which is crazy and I told him that. I didn’t know he was listening. You’re in the car, you’re his mom, and you hear all this stuff, and you figure they’re not listening. They do listen. Anyway, I used to tell him—I’d be talking to someone and when I had papers that need filled out that I’m actually meeting in person, I highlight everything; it’s all ready to go. He’s eating his pie. “Here’s your pen. Follow the yellow brick road and everything is all done.” I heard him repeat that and I was like, “Oh my, gosh.” There we go. That’s one of the biggest compliments you can get, is when somebody repeats what you said. He goes, “Well, I told him to follow the yellow brick road.” That went on his first listing with him and that’s what he told the client. I’m like, “Yes.” Jason: Yellow highlighter. Follow the yellow brick road. Patty: Yes, that’s all I need, is these signatures. Jason: Patty, I think you’ve shared several cool little hacks and ideas. It’s really clever and I think all this is very helpful for property managers who are seeking to cultivate relationships which eventually lead to contracts. Are there any other recommendations or any other challenges you’re noticing among property management business owners that are struggling to grow that they should be paying attention to? Patty: One hack that I’ve seen that’s not good that is out there that they might—I don’t know if they’re aware of it or it’s happening near them, but it’s not for growth; it’s more for protection. A lot of people have identity theft. It’s all over. What a lot of people have done to save it instead of paying money to some of these companies is they’ve just frozen their credit. They’re not buying anything. They just freeze it. Therefore, they didn’t protect it, but what’s happening is we have people who are putting applications in our—there’s 5 million different software out there, and most people doing applications online actually agree with that. The application comes in and what’s happening is the people with really bad credit are freezing their credit. So when we pull the application and we run it, it comes up as, ‘N/A.’ We don’t see that they have 14 late payments. We don’t see that they have two charge options, three bankruptcies and all that kind of stuff because it comes up as, ‘N/A.’ People assume, “Oh, well, based on the birth date, they just don’t have enough credit established so it’s coming up as, ‘N/A.’” Not true. They’re freezing it so they’re bypassing our system, which is pretty smart when you think about it. It’s pretty slick. What I’ve done and everybody can do is just add one sentence to your application that says, “Have you frozen your credit? If so, please unfreeze before applying,” because if they’d lied on the application, now that affects them getting released, but it’s a pretty slick little smart way. I’ll give them credit for that because, by freezing it—and I can’t tell you how many people have gotten by with it because most owners—so, if I’m telling you, Jason, “Well, they don’t have any credit based on the score and they really don’t have any debt. They just haven’t established yet according to the agent but they’re making this much money and they’re going to come in and take care of your house, and the property manager’s telling the truth.” You might buy that, but if I tell you their credit score’s a 420 and they have 18 collections and all this kind of stuff, you’re going to say, “No way,” so I give them an A for effort. However, they’re not getting past us. Jason: Yeah, if they have a credit score of 420, what then… Patty: You’re probably going to say no. If I tell you, “N/A. They just don’t have any,” versus a 420, you might be willing to accept the, ‘N/A,’ but you’re not going to take the 420 so it’s a pretty slick little racket they’ve got going on, but the way […] one question in the application and then now you’ve got it. Then, the other part, too, is there are some people that we have a lot of military government being here near DC so we have a lot of people moving and they maybe forgot they’ve frozen it, and I don’t want to run the credit and then it comes up nothing then we have to go back again. By asking that question, if it’s a legitimate person that has done so, they can see on there, “Oh, wow. We froze it. We’ve got to fix it,” and they’ll fix it before they apply so it’s a good thing, but it’s been used in a little interesting hack, if you will. Jason: Got it. All right. Patty, all this has been super informative. I agree with you that property management is about relationships. People need to be getting out there, creating relationships, connecting with people. There’s so much blue ocean and opportunity available that’s just waiting for leads to come to you. It’s probably not a great growth strategy in general, and I know you’ve had phenomenal growth in all the businesses that you’ve been affiliated with because of these methods so I think everybody should pay attention and listen to Patty. If anybody has some questions for you or wants to reach out to you, how can they get ahold of you? Patty: My simplest email is realtorp@gmail.com or you can reach me on my cell number. I’m on Facebook. I’m on your staff, of course. I actually was thinking, Jason.When I was back with OpenPotion, did you live in Idaho or somewhere at the time? Is that where it was? Jason: Yeah, I’m in Southern California now. Patty: I know, but was it in Idaho? I want to try to remember. Jason: Yeah. Patty: Gosh, what year was that? Jason: I don’t know. A while ago. Patty: A long time ago. It’s so cool to be old enough, to have a relationship with someone like you back then, and you had the dreams and the ideas to do this, and then to actually see you do it is awesome. Jason: I appreciate that. I think we’ve probably known each other for about a decade, realistically. Patty: Gosh, we probably have. Jason: Yeah, because I helped my brother, Bryant, with his business originally, probably back in 2008. Patty: I was going to say ’07 or ’08, probably. Jason: And then you were one of the early clients, I think, that we’ve worked with. Patty: And you often have. Jason: Exactly. Patty: Back then, even. See? When you were just starting out on this. It was awesome. Jason: We’ve learned a lot since then. A lot. Patty: Yeah, it’s crazy. Jason: Like I said, a thousand or more mistakes. Patty: No, it’s all good. We don’t fall; we don’t get up so I’m glad it happened. Jason: Yeah, always learning. Patty, it’s been great having you on the show. I appreciate you coming out and I wish you continued awesome growth and success. Patty: And yourself as well. Thank you. Jason: All right. Thanks, Patty. Okay. Cool. Everybody watching this show, please be sure to check out the community that we have going on online, which Patty had sort of mentioned on Facebook, which is our DoorGrow Club. You can get to that by going to doorgrowclub.com, and if you are a property management business owner and you are looking to add doors and grow your business, that is an awesome community of people that are helpful. Then, if you want some help figuring out how to grow your business, you want to align and clean up your sales pipeline, clean up the major leaks that are limiting organic growth and preventing you from being able to really capitalize on a lot of the things that Patty was discussing, then reach out to us at DoorGrow. This is what we focus on. It’s helping you align your business so that you can create new revenue, create more growth, and maximize each door that you have. You can get to us just by going to doorgrow.com. I’m Jason Hull of the DoorGrow Show and until next time. To our mutual growth, everybody. Goodbye.

In this episode, Jason and Bridget will chat about cold calling — the good, bad, and the ugly. How do you do this in the WordPress ecosystem effectively without sounding like a used car salesman?No-one likes cold calling at first – it feels slimy – how to do it right?The problem: How do you let people know that you’re accepting clients? How do people know if you’re available? Are you advertising?For a regular brick and mortar business, people will just stop in and hire you, but if you’re an online-only business, how do you reach people? How do they know if you are accepting business?Everybody in the WordPress space has the potential to be everyone else’s competitor – how can you reach out / connect? Everyone has a specialty or a focus – you can refer business to friends/connections that you know that handle a different specialty. If you know your limits, you can refer out work to other people you know through your networking/connections and they can do the same for you.Bridget would see jobs posted on Linkedin, etc. and take an interview with them and when talking to them say “actually, I’d really like to be your vendor” and then have a conversation with them, basically turning the interview into a sales call!(Bridget sidenote: The salary in our industry is way too low. If you only pay $15/hr for social media, you’re only gonna get social media worth $15)Bridget sometimes notices jobs for companies listed for 30, 40 days … sometimes it’s good to approach them and see if they would consider outsourcing temporarily. There is a risk in reaching out but even if it doesn’t work out now, chances are they’ll remember you in the future for another opportunity.You don’t know until you try, and sometimes you just need to ask to have a conversation!Some people approach their businesses by choosing a niche (Ie. all real estate companies/websites) … Bridget likes to be monogamous in her relationships with clients – only one web host, only one party planner, etc. so she can really focus her attention on them.Make sure that the way you are cold-calling people fits with your brand. Don’t try to be something your not.Bridget suggests offering something for free when you cold call – she chooses to offer them an audit for free. Treat it like hospitality – here is a tray of hors-d’oeuvres … but don’t require them to take it! Offer the help but let them decline without feeling bad about it.Another option is to offer your services at a discounted rate on a limited trial basis, and then if they like your work, they can do a full sign up at full price and if they’re not happy, they’re free to move on to something else.Jason: How do you send out a referral and know that the person you are referring them to is able/willing to do the work?Bridget: I refer them, but it’s up to the person I’m referring to decide if they are able to do it. To her, being resourceful is part of her brand. (Sidenote: Don’t pass on terrible clients!)Jason: If I’m going to be the ‘Angie’s List’ of WordPress, I like to make sure that the person I’m handing clients off to is actually willing and able to do the work.Bridget used to have a ‘Guru Referral’ page and would ask people if they wanted to be listed. Beyond the referral to the expert, she’s not responsible. It’s up to them and the client to see if they are compatible and can work together.Bridget: In all business, it’s very important not to burn your bridges – be very careful how you treat your clients and competitors. Jason: It’s okay to put “caution tape” in front of the bridge if you need to maintain the relationship but maybe hold on referring people! Bridget: everyone has a preference, never say never to referring someone!Have a portfolio – and ask your clients if you can list them on your page! It helps people to know your style and if you are a good fit for them.What matters to you the most? Bridget: I care about mentoring people – if anyone does well, then we all do well!Remember that when you cold call someone, you’re putting them in a defensive position.Sometimes you have to speak up for yourself because no one else is going to do it for you.Try: I would love to work with you – maybe we can help each other out! (But make sure your website is ready for when they come to check you and your business out). Or say, I love what you’ve built with your brand – I’d love to be part of what you are doing and help grow your brandPublicly posting your prices gives you a starting place and a talking point, it opens up discussion. Don’t be afraid to post your prices on your website.Be discerning, don’t indiscriminately reach out to people – make sure they’re a good fit for what you have to offer and what your passionate about. You want your passions to align with your client = synergy!To find your ideal client, you need to be self-aware – and sometimes that means reaching out to and brainstorming with your friends. We mentor and bounce off each other in order to make each other better!Find your peer-counselors (and/or friends) and be vulnerable and honest with them. They can help you grow!4 Tips:Make sure it’s your ideal clientMake sure you’re doing it in a way that helps themMake sure it gives them the option to say noMake sure your website is ready for your clients to check you outBridget – What Not to Do: Don’t go randomly follow and contact accounts of people who post about something one time because they were visiting a locationJason – If you see someone in your area posting a lot about food and you are a restaurant – maybe make the connection – “This person is a foodie!” and follow them, contact themBridget: Always be helpful, be polite and be relevant.TIPS OF THE WEEK:Jason: Dark Mode on MAC is awesome! https://nightowl.kramser.xyz/ – Automatically toggles night mode at night and normal mode during the day! Can also set by sunrise/sunsetBridget: https://unionmetrics.com/product/instagram-analytics/ – Instagram checkup is free – get content analytics. Analytics tools are great IF you mix things up – if you only ever post at 11 am, it will tell you 11 am is your best time – the only way to test is to mix it upShow notes contributed by:Cheryl LaPrade @YayCherylSherie LaPrade @HeySherie See acast.com/privacy for privacy and opt-out information.

It's the boys' first ever LIVE show, brought to you straight from Scares that Care in Williamsburg, Virgina! Frightened out of their minds, they bring in special guest judge author Frank J. Edler (and host of the Bizzong! podcast) to help out. The three debaters unpack their nightmares as they debate classic horror film icons. Mike slashes and attacks for Michael Myers. Ryan dreams up some arguments for Freddy Krueger. And Nick camps out for Jason Voorhees. Listen in as they discuss everything like The Greasy Strangler, Halloween music, Kevin Spacey, motherly love, abominations of evil, outerspace, William Shatner, Mr. Rogers' sweaters, the eroticism of Jason, and watching Johnny Depp get murdered in a geyser of blood and viscera. Does Mike know the word "purview?" How turned on will Nick get thinking about Jason? How will Ryan cheat? And which of our hosts does Mr. Frank want to Eff, Marry, and Kill? Face your fears in: The Best Horror Villain!

Are visitors who spend more time browsing your website more likely to click on your Facebook ads and convert?  If so, at what cost?  Jason How joins us for another paid ads experiment.

Have you tried running Instagram ads in the Stories format? We did! Jason How helped us compare their performance against ads in the feed and the results were pretty drastic!

Jason How joins us to see which option is better for our Facebook ads traffic.

A lot of influencers certainly think so. Jason How joins us to find out, on today’s social media lab.

You have a great product that customers love and one day, someone influential writes about it. The result- lots of visibility that you can't track or retarget. Jason How joins us to test replicating an influencer's article on our site, then driving traffic from a Facebook Ad to it.

What I discuss with Jason:-How he entered Financial Planning and how he built Bloomsbury-How they built a successful team-Why he decided to sell and what he is doing now-What he looked for in hiring

Jason How is the Managing Director of Agency J, a digital marketing agency that has produced $20M+ in verifiable revenue for clients, including education institutions, insurance carriers, and eCommerce companies. He also served as an enterprise consultant to Hootsuite's most valued enterprise customers. Jason realized he had no passion for the career he was pursuing. After reading a post on Tim Ferriss' blog, he worked his way into "social media marketing". As an auto-proclaimed "math nerd", he focused on writing technical articles about Facebook, which eventually led him to running social media ads for customers. He's has a solid track record working with clients in the "Education" niche. He works with coaches & course creators and helps them grow their businesses to six-figure months. In his free time, he enjoys writing articles and sharing his knowledge with others. Website: https://agencyj.co Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/the-dave-pamah-show/donations