Podcasts about Toine

„Irrfahrt“" von Toine Heijmans – eine Rezension von Constanze Matthes - Zeichen und Zeiten(Hördauer 08 Minuten)„Wenn das Denken aufhört, übernimmt das Meer.“Ein Sturm zieht über der Nordsee vor der Küste der Niederlanden auf. Auch wenn er sein Ziel bereits vor Augen hat, entscheidet Donald, auf der See auszuharren. Zur Sicherheit – für sich und seine siebenjährige Tochter Maria, die ebenfalls an Bord ist. In seinem schmalen Romandebüt „Irrfahrt“ erzählt der Niederländer Toine Heijmans von einer besonderen Segeltour, einem Mann, seiner Familie und dass nichts ist, wie es auf den ersten Blick scheint.Unsere Live-Sendungen in SchwabingDen Volltext dieser Rezension findest Du hierWenn dir Rezensionen gefallen, hör doch mal hier hinein.

De Oranje stofwolken van Koningsdag zijn nog niet opgetrokken of we werden alweer op ons wenken bediend met spectaculaire wedstrijden. Deze aflevering bespreken we het puntenverlies van koploper Ajax tegen Sparta, met een krankzinnige kortsluiting bij Matheus in een enerverende slotfase. Ook uitgebreid aandacht voor een heerlijke El Clásico en de transfer van Sem Steijn naar Feyenoord. In Top of tobben komen vriend van de show Toine van Peperstraten en Steven Bergwijn voorbij. Bekijk hier de Spelinzicht-aflevering met Jochem Ritmeester van de Kamp.

FRIENDS AND ENEMIESTired of high heating bills? What if you could turn that expense into an income stream?In this eye-opening episode of the Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast, Len the Lengend sits down with Toine from HEAT Inc. ([https://x.com/TronMonGone](https://x.com/TronMonGone), [256heat.com](https://256heat.com/)) to discuss a revolutionary concept: using Bitcoin mining to heat your home and get paid for it!Discover how the heat generated by ASIC Bitcoin miners can be efficiently recaptured and utilized to keep your living space warm during those cold winter nights. This isn't just a futuristic idea; ASIC mining for heat recapture is quickly becoming one of the biggest trends in the space.Toine from HEAT Inc. brings expert insights into the technology and practicalities of implementing such a system. With increasingly accessible ASIC options available to homeowners, there's never been a better time to explore how you can turn wasted heat into valuable satoshis.Whether you're a seasoned Bitcoiner or just starting to explore the possibilities of this technology, this conversation will provide you with a fresh perspective on energy efficiency and earning potential.*Don't miss out on learning how to potentially slash your heating costs AND earn Bitcoin!*Tune in to understand:The basics of Bitcoin mining for heat recapture.How homeowners can get involved.Why ASIC mining is suitable for this application.The future of this innovative trend.*Like, subscribe, and hit the notification bell* so you don't miss more episodes from the Canadian Bitcoiners Podcast exploring the exciting world of Bitcoin!*Find Toine on X:* [https://x.com/TronMonGone](https://x.com/TronMonGone)*Learn more about HEAT Inc.:* [256heat.com](https://256heat.com/)#Bitcoin #BitcoinMining #HeatRecapture #ASICMining #HomeHeating #EnergyEfficiency #CanadianBitcoinersPodcast #LenTheLegend #HEATInc #Toine #Crypto #PassiveIncome #SustainableBitcoinJoin us for some QUALITY Bitcoin and economics talk, with a Canadian focus, every Monday at 7 PM EST. From a couple of Canucks who like to talk about how Bitcoin will impact Canada. As always, none of the info is financial advice. Website: ⁠www.CanadianBitcoiners.com⁠Discord:   / discord   A part of the CBP Media Network: ⁠www.twitter.com/CBPMediaNetworkThis show is sponsored by: easyDNS - ⁠⁠www.easydns.com⁠⁠ EasyDNS is the best spot for Anycast DNS, domain name registrations, web and email services. They are fast, reliable and privacy focused. You can even pay for your services with Bitcoin! Apply coupon code 'CBPMEDIA' for 50% off initial purchase Bull Bitcoin - ⁠⁠https://mission.bullbitcoin.com/cbp⁠⁠ The CBP recommends Bull Bitcoin for all your BTC needs. There's never been a quicker, simpler, way to acquire Bitcoin. Use the link above for $20 bones, and take advantage of all Bull Bitcoin has to offer.

Minstens zeventig keer stapte Toine gewapend een bankgebouw binnen. Hij roofde de kluis leeg en liet bankmedewerkers doodsbang achter. Dat bleef niet onbestraft. Toine zat bijna twintig jaar van zijn leven vast. Tijdens zijn derde, jarenlange gevangenisstraf ontdekte Toine dat hij méér kon dan banken beroven. Nu werkt hij als docent beeldende kunst met jongeren bij De Nieuwe Kans.Ben je benieuwd naar dit verhaal, luister deze aflevering van VEROORDEELD nu op Podimo. Podimo is een app waarin je exclusieve podcasts en luisterboeken kunt luisteren. Via podimo.nl/veroordeeld kan je Podimo 30 dagen gratis uitproberen. Dat zijn acht afleveringen van VEROORDEELD en vele andere mooie podcasts en luisterboeken. Probeer Podimo nu via podimo.nl/veroordeeldZie het privacybeleid op https://art19.com/privacy en de privacyverklaring van Californië op https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Waardeer je onze video's? Steun dan Café Weltschmerz, het podium voor het vrije woord: https://www.cafeweltschmerz.nl/doneren/In de 47e aflevering van De Andere Tafel ontvangt presentator Pieter Stuurman onderzoeker en publicist Anton Theunissen en medisch journalist Toine de Graaf. Theunissen werkte mee aan het rapport over de mogelijke relatie tussen oversterfte en coronavaccins van Meester en Jacobs en publiceerde veelvuldig over deze en andere medische onderwerpen op zijn blog virusvaria.nl. Afgelopen week werd de oversterfte besproken in een commissiedebat in de Tweede Kamer waarbij het onafhankelijke onderzoek werd afgewezen, onder andere omdat het tegen de consensus in zou gaan. De heren bespreken deze wonderlijke gang van zaken en meer.Blog Anton Teunissen: https://virusvaria.nl/Rapport Meester en Jacobs: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/383239838_Eindverslag_van_het_onderzoek_naar_een_mogelijke_relatie_tussen_Covid-19_vaccinaties_en_oversterfte_in_Nederland_2021_-_2023---Deze video is geproduceerd door Café Weltschmerz. Café Weltschmerz gelooft in de kracht van het gesprek en zendt interviews uit over actuele maatschappelijke thema's. Wij bieden een hoogwaardig alternatief voor de mainstream media. Café Weltschmerz is onafhankelijk en niet verbonden aan politieke, religieuze of commerciële partijen.Wil je meer video's bekijken en op de hoogte blijven via onze nieuwsbrief? Ga dan naar: https://www.cafeweltschmerz.nl/videos/Wil je op de hoogte worden gebracht van onze nieuwe video's? Klik hierboven dan op Abonneren!

"Geen energie verspillen aan dromen." - Stine vraagt presentator en sportjournalist Toine van Peperstraten om een levenswijsheid uit de sportwereld.

ESPN-presentator Toine van Peperstraten, chef sport van het ANP Koen Greven en oud-doelman Ronald Waterreus zijn te gast. Er wordt gesproken over de vrije val van PSV, de hernieuwde branie bij Ajax en de dopingschorsing van Jannik Sinner. Ook komt het vertrek van Andries Jonker bij de Oranjevrouwen aan bod.

In de basis staan de amateurs Gijs, Tim en Snijboon, geflankeerd door professional Toine van Peperstraten. We begonnen de uitzending met breaking news, omdat Feyenoord afscheid heeft genomen van Brian 'zunne trainer' Priske. Daarna volgden nog negen wedstrijden, achttien teams nog meer plezier.00:00 - Intro02:59 - Priskes breaking news08:33 - PSV-Willem II15:46 - Fortuna Sittard-Ajax20:45 - FC Utrecht-Almere City23:57 - Buitenspel27:09 - AZ-PEC Zwolle29:34 - Business lounge31:32 - Feyenoord-Sparta39:56 - Heerenveen-FC Twente42:13 - Heracles-Go Ahead Eagles45:22 - RKC-NAC Breda48:27 - FC Groningen-NEC49:57 - Start, bench, sellBoodschap uit de business lounge: "Skip je reistijd en ga leuke dingen doen! Vind op Nationale Vacaturebank een baan bij jou in de buurt. Je nieuwe baan is altijd dichtbij!"Geproduceerd door: Tonny Media Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Maak hier je afspraak met Toine Manders: https://lotgenotenpodcast.nl/NozickConsultingGroup-341a

Voordat Robert lijsttrekker was van de Libertarische Partij, gaf Toine Manders invulling aan die rol. Toine werd door de politiek gedemoniseerd omdat hij zeer uitgesproken is over belasting. Omdat belasting niet vrijwillig is (waar heb je die overeenkomst getekend?) lijkt het op afpersing door een criminele organisatie. Daar gaan we dieper op in vandaag met Toine Manders. Er is overigens geen Xtra aflevering bij deze episode. Volgende week is Robert er weer! Word bazige baas

Het was weer een geweldig jaar in de Keuken Kampioen Divisie. We bespreken de speelronde en blikken en het hele KKD-Jaar in een XXL-KERSTSHOW. Wat is het KKD-Moment van het jaar? Wie is de speler van het jaar? Dat en nog veel meer bespreken de mannen met Toine van Peperstraten, Pascal Kamperman en Rick Kruys. Je leest het goed, maar liefst DRIE Tellies van Ferry.Wil je nou luisteren naar de Hollandse Knallers playlist, dat kan hier!ProfortoSnelle levering: Een groot gedeelte van het assortiment ligt voor jou klaar in ons magazijn. Dat betekent: voor 23u besteld, morgen in huis.Het grootste assortiment van Europa: Met meer dan 150+ merken onder één (online) dak, vinden onze klanten altijd iets wat past bij zijn/haar beroep en omstandigheden. Of je nu op zoek bent naar werkkleding, veiligheidsschoenen of persoonlijke bescherming. Je vindt op Proforto alle topmerken voor werkkleding zoals Snickers Workwear, Carhartt, Redbrick, Grisport, EMMA, Blaklader en Fristads.Bedrukken en borduurstudio: Of het nu gaat om een logo of een naam, wij zorgen ervoor dat jouw werkkleding er professioneel en representatief uitziet. Wij hebben onze eigen atelier zodat we de bedrukte of geborduurde kleding altijd snel bij de klant kunnen krijgen.We staan altijd voor je klaar: Vragen? Onze klantenservice vol met productexperts staan voor je klaar om je te helpen.Met de code BESTE15 krijg je 15 procent korting in de webshop bij een bestelling vanaf 150 euro.Voor de beste werkkleding ga je natuurlijk naar https://www.proforto.nl!Zie het privacybeleid op https://art19.com/privacy en de privacyverklaring van Californië op https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Met: Marianne Timmer, Gerard van der Lem, Frank Snoeks, Toine van Peperstraten, Michiel Blijboom, Michael van Praag en Bert Dijkstra. Presentatie: Leo Driessen.

In deze aflevering van Gitaarmannen, de podcast, gaat Ed Struijlaart in gesprek met jazz- en popgitarist Toine Scholten. Een muzikant met een bijzondere achtergrond: van zijn jeugd in Leidschendam tot het spelen op internationale podia. Toine deelt zijn verhaal over hoe hij de gitaar ontdekte, zijn invloeden zoals Jimi Hendrix en Robin Ford, en hoe hij zijn muzikale stem heeft gevonden. We bespreken zijn favoriete gitaren, waaronder zijn geliefde Gibson ES-335, zijn kijk op songwriting, en hoe hij een balans vindt tussen live-optredens en muziek uitbrengen. Ook hebben we het over zijn plannen om internationaal door te breken, met name in Duitsland. Beluister deze aflevering om te ontdekken:

Joyeux anniversaire à tous les contributeurices de la Galaxie Pop :Voici le casting de cette petite fiction / galéjade :Capitaine/ impératrice MU : Muriel Cayla représentante du podcat OST BLAST !https://galaxiepop.fr/category/podcast/ost-blast/Rémi deuxdés dans son rôle de recrue humaine représentant de trek in storia et l'occasion d'en parlerhttps://galaxiepop.fr/category/podcast/trekinstoria/https://galaxiepop.fr/?s=l%27occasion+d%27en+parlerKurt aka suckmykdick dans le rôle du grand méchant Loup-garou représentant aussi de l'occasion d'en parler et sociétaire de sa chaine youtube ainsi que de Mana et PlasmaLory dans le rôle de la sorcière qui représente son podcast la pleiade des lucioleshttps://galaxiepop.fr/2021/07/la-pleiade-des-lucioles-1-petits-mots-pour-grands-concepts/https://podcloud.fr/podcast/la-pleiade-des-lucioleshttps://lorrybegin.fr/la-pleiade-des-lucioles/Lolly dans son propre rôle (mais bien déguisée en Barbapirella) représentant Je conte jusqu'à toi et songes d'une nuithttps://lendewell.com/histoires/https://www.badgeek.fr/medias/c/235/songes-d-une-nuit/Thierry dans le rôle de Thierry Krougueur représentant le podcast Bobine Hurlantehttps://galaxiepop.fr/?s=bobine+hurlante Benracer85 représentant Synthspiration et sa chaine yt For my tapeshttps://galaxiepop.fr/category/podcast/synthspiration/Toine en Drucula représentant sa chaine twitch apérociné et le podcast replay mais montéhttps://galaxiepop.fr/category/podcast/aperocine/https://www.twitch.tv/aperocine?lang=fr débrophy dans son rôle représentant le podcast la bAnalehttps://galaxiepop.fr/category/podcast/les-playlists/la-banale/David Geiger est l'agent Dagguy et il représente TOUT Galaxie pop et entre autresLes notes de ma vie ;une fille un papa une musique etc etchttps://galaxiepop.fr/2021/08/les-notes-de-ma-vie-interview-dimitri-regnier/https://galaxiepop.fr/2021/02/1-fille-1-papa-1-musique-no-daughter-of-mine/4etwinny taniguchi dans les rôles de Su-Zanne et l'agent winnyqui représente le podcast qui n'a pas de nom.https://galaxiepop.fr/category/podcast/lpqnpdn/quel feignant cui là : il a même pas cherché un nom à son podcast !! joyeux Halloween les galactiques !!

Waardeer je onze video's? Steun dan Café Weltschmerz, het podium voor het vrije woord: https://www.cafeweltschmerz.nl/doneren/In de 34e aflevering van De Andere Tafel ontvangt uitgever van De Andere Krant Sander Compagner data-analist Wouter Aukema en medisch journalist Toine de Graaf. Er verdwijnen systematisch meldingen van ernstige bijwerkingen na coronavaccinatie, zoals sterfgevallen, uit de publieke database van het Europees Medicijnagentschap (EMA).Wouter Aukema en Toine de Graaf lichten dit schandaal toe.Het gesprek tusssen Aukema en Elijah: https://www.soniaelijah.com/p/data-crimes-deleting-covid-vaccineLees meer over het onderzoek van Aukema en De Graaf via https://deanderekrant.nl/nieuws/bijwerkingen-coronavaccins-verdwijnen-systematisch-uit-europese-database-2024-11-29Voor meer informatie over het werk van Aukema: https://x.com/waukema en https://public.tableau.com/app/profile/aukema/vizzes---Deze video is geproduceerd door Café Weltschmerz. Café Weltschmerz gelooft in de kracht van het gesprek en zendt interviews uit over actuele maatschappelijke thema's. Wij bieden een hoogwaardig alternatief voor de mainstream media. Café Weltschmerz is onafhankelijk en niet verbonden aan politieke, religieuze of commerciële partijen.Wil je meer video's bekijken en op de hoogte blijven via onze nieuwsbrief? Ga dan naar: https://www.cafeweltschmerz.nl/videos/Wil je op de hoogte worden gebracht van onze nieuwe video's? Klik hierboven dan op Abonneren!

Brecht van Hulten praat met schrijver en journalist Toine Heijmans over zijn nieuwste roman Buitendijks. Willem de Waal bewoont een tentje in de uiterwaarden van een grote rivier. Hij is jong en sterk en leeft alleen met de natuur die hem omringt, onder de bescherming van een eeuwenoude zwarte populier. Niemand weet van zijn vrije, buitendijkse bestaan. Of wel? Pas wanneer hij wordt verjaagd uit zijn terrein, blijkt wie werkelijk de baas is over de wildernis. 

In de podcast ‘Stoere Kerels' bespreken BD-clubwatchers Dolf van Aert en Job Willemse wekelijks het wel en wee van Willem II. In aflevering 11 van seizoen 4 gaat het uiteraard over de nederlaag bij Ajax én het aankomende (drukke) programma. Belgast is ESPN-verslaggever en Willem II-supporter Toine van Peperstraten.Beluister al onze podcasts: https://www.bd.nl/podcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Vandaag bij Zo Word Je Steenrijk Toine Manders. Toine Manders deelt in deze aflevering zijn visie op belastingen, vrijheid en financiële onafhankelijkheid. Toine deelt hoe zijn interesse in belastingen is ontstaan en waarom hij ondernemers is gaan helpen met belastingontwijking. Hij legt het verschil uit tussen belastingontwijking en belastingontduiking en vertelt waarom hij belasting ziet als een vorm van gelegaliseerde roof. Daarnaast bespreken we offshore constructies, de toenemende belastingdruk wereldwijd, en waarom Toine zich specialiseert in emigratie om mensen meer financiële vrijheid te bieden. Ook komt in deze podcast het persoonlijke verhaal aan bod. Hij verteld hoe de ‘Panama Papers' ervoor zorgde dat hij van steenrijk naar straatarm ging.Ga er dus maar eens goed voor zitten

Met Pierre Blättler en Gene Hanssen hebben Mo en Rob deze week 2 Kerkraadse oud-strijders met een in geel zwart gedrenkt hart aan tafel. De opnameapperatuur werd uiteindelijk na een uur verhalen vertellen maar eens aangezet voor een 2 uur durende TVOK waarin het geen fractie van een seconde saai is. Onderwerpen die aan bod komen zijn de snelheid van het moderne spel, voortijdige transfers en social media, de huidige Roda selectie, Didden en Reith, vorig seizoen, leiderschap in het veld, Daneels en Van der Heide, vrouwenvoetbal, de Roda academy en de doorstroom, Tim Blättler, spelen in Zwitserland en Japan, Paulissen, Werker en jongens uit de regio, clubliefde, Frans Körver, oud-spelers inzetten, Theo Caanen, consulenten en werkzoekenden, Toine van Mierlo, Oud-Roda, wedstrijd vissen en duivenmelken, Germania Teveren, voetbalshirts, rood in bekerfinales, snelle bewegingen vs hard spel, drinkbekers, talent vs mentaliteit en nog veeeel meer. Luistertip! Geproduceerd en gepresenteerd door: www.southxvi.com Gesponsord door: Jegers Advocaten: www.jegersadvocaten.nl Next Door Hair Kapsalon, nagel- en beautysalon: www.facebook.com/Hairenmore Hotel Restaurant Vijlerhof: www.vijlerhof.nl Bernardushoeve: www.bernardushoeve.nl Van Ooyen Glashandel: vanooyen.com Wiertz Company: www.wiertz.com Roda Support: www.rodasupport.nl PC Data: www.pcdata-logistics.com Metaalgieterij Van Gilst: www.vangilst.net Roda JC Artic Front Wullenweber Keukens: wullenweberkeukens.jouwweb.nl Stock Grondverzet Stichting Vrienden van Roda Voetbaltrips.com Ostheopathie Daamen: osteopathiedaamen.nl Sportcafe De Aftrap: www.aftrap-kerkrade.nl Bovens Bouwadvies: www.bovens-bouwadvies.nl Maessen & Houben Strafrechtadvocaten: www.maessenhouben.nl Barberroad: barberroad.nl Vakgarage Dorscheidt: www.vakgaragedorscheidt.nl

In de 24e aflevering van De Andere Tafel ontvangt vaste presentator Pieter Stuurman Professor Theo Schetters, bioloog gespecialiseerd in immunologie en Toine de Graaf journalist van De Andere Krant. De heren bespreken de verschillende rapporten die de afgelopen periode zijn uitgekomen over de oversterfte in relatie tot de covid-prikken. Terwijl het oversterfte-rapport van Ronald Meester en Marc Jacobs, dat kritisch is over het effect van de covid-vaccinaties, wordt doodgezwegen, krijgt een rapport van het Nederlands Instituut voor Onderzoek van de Gezondheidszorg (Nivel), waaruit zou blijken dat er oversterfte is onder ongevaccineerden, volop aandacht. De Volkskrant bracht het bijna juichend. Ondertussen is er echter spijkerharde kritiek op het Nivel-rapport. Nivel heeft inmiddels laten weten het rapport te gaan aanpassen. Stort het kaartenhuis van de geclaimde veiligheid van de covid-prikken in? Zie ook de artikel die deze week in De Andere Krant staan: https://deanderekrant.nl/nieuws/stort-het-kaartenhuis-in-2024-09-21 en https://deanderekrant.nl/nieuws/interview-professor-theo-schetters-de-waarheid-komt-langzaam-naar-boven-2024-09-21---Deze video is geproduceerd door Café Weltschmerz. Café Weltschmerz gelooft in de kracht van het gesprek en zendt interviews uit over actuele maatschappelijke thema's. Wij bieden een hoogwaardig alternatief voor de mainstream media. Café Weltschmerz is onafhankelijk en niet verbonden aan politieke, religieuze of commerciële partijen.Waardeer je onze video's? Help ons in de strijd naar een eerlijker Nederland, vrij van censuur en Steun Café Weltschmerz en word Stamgast!https://www.cafeweltschmerz.nl/maandelijks-doneren/Wil je meer video's bekijken en op de hoogte blijven via onze nieuwsbrief? Ga dan naar: https://www.cafeweltschmerz.nl/videos/Wil je op de hoogte worden gebracht van onze nieuwe video's? Klik hierboven dan op Abonneren!

In deze aflevering maken Jaro en Koen kennis met Toine Manders. Hij is een uitgesproken criticus die ervan overtuigd is dat we beroofd worden door ons huidige belastingsysteem.  Samen met Toine duiken we in de wereld van belastingen en de frustraties die velen ervaren. Zo vertelt Toine dat hij zelfs een belastingontduiker was en op deze manier is gestopt met belasting betalen. Maar deze aanpak heeft zijn keerzijden, Toine kwam in opspraak na onthullingen in de Panama Papers, waarin zijn betrokkenheid bij offshore constructies aan het licht kwam. Dit leidde uiteindelijk tot zijn persoonlijke faillissement en een veroordeling tot een taakstraf van 180 uur. Deze aflevering kijkt op een slimme manier naar de vraag hoe belastingontduiking werkt en wat de uitdagingen zijn. Veel mensen vinden het belastingstelsel niet eerlijk. In het gesprek vertelt Toine eerlijk over zijn ervaringen, wat het voor zijn leven en werk heeft betekend, en of het allemaal wel de moeite waard was. Hij beantwoordt ook de belangrijke vraag: is belastingontduiking echt een oplossing, of zijn de risico's te groot?

Soms vraag je je af? Is een hoer neuken een seksschandaal? Of is een hoer neuken voetbalcultuur? Of misschien wel allebei of een van de twee? In deze podcast beantwoorden we de vraag.Daarnaast blikken we vooruit op dit voetbalseizoen met Toine van Peperstraten en gaan we ouderwets voorspellen!ScoritoSpeel mee in onze eigen Scorito subleague: https://www.scorito.com/subleague/928910/topcoach-kkd-2024-2025/de-eerste-de-beste-kkd/55f4e9bd-8922-442f-948f-eb7ce66cd3e7.De winnaar krijgt een gratis premium avondje De Eerste de Beste met twee vrienden.Spel via DEDB is gratis, kost normaal op Scorito € 6.99.In de eerste 4 speelrondes kun je nog onbeperkt transfers doorvoeren, vanaf speelronde 5 sluit de transfermarkt.Dan moet je het tot de winterstop doen met de 18 spelers die je hebt geselecteerd (in de winter gaat de transfermarkt weer open).Van de eerste 4 speelrondes tellen alleen je 2 beste speelrondes mee. Het maakt dus niet uit, als je pas in speelronde 2 of 3 instroomt.ProfortoSnelle levering: Een groot gedeelte van het assortiment ligt voor jou klaar in ons magazijn. Dat betekent: voor 23u besteld, morgen in huis. Het grootste assortiment van Europa: Met meer dan 150+ merken onder één (online) dak, vinden onze klanten altijd iets wat past bij zijn/haar beroep en omstandigheden. Of je nu op zoek bent naar werkkleding, veiligheidsschoenen of persoonlijke bescherming. Je vindt op Proforto alle topmerken voor werkkleding zoals Snickers Workwear, Carhartt, Redbrick, Grisport, EMMA, Blaklader en Fristads.Bedrukken en borduurstudio: Of het nu gaat om een logo of een naam, wij zorgen ervoor dat jouw werkkleding er professioneel en representatief uitziet. Wij hebben onze eigen atelier zodat we de bedrukte of geborduurde kleding altijd snel bij de klant kunnen krijgen.We staan altijd voor je klaar: Vragen? Onze klantenservice vol met productexperts staan voor je klaar om je te helpen.Met de code BESTE15 krijg je 15 procent korting in de webshop bij een bestelling vanaf 150 euro.Zie het privacybeleid op https://art19.com/privacy en de privacyverklaring van Californië op https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Is het team van Red Bull niet groter dan de individuen die er werken of vertrekken? En hoe goed doet McLaren het nu eigenlijk? Ook bespreken we uiteraard waarom Carlos Sainz zo lang heeft gewacht totdat hij heeft getekend bij Williams. Kortom, genoeg om over te praten en daarom ontvangt Toine van Peperstraten deze week drie spraakmakende gasten in F1 aan Tafel, de wekelijkse podcast van Grand Prix Radio.Vanuit The Harbour Club in Vinkeveen•⁠  ⁠Presentator Toine van Peperstraten•⁠  ⁠Coureur en racingcoach Bente Boer•⁠  ⁠Fabrieksrijder Lamborghini en Technisch Analist Grand Prix Radio Jeroen Mul•⁠  ⁠Voormalig Formule-2 coureur: Meindert van BuurenDisclaimer: Alle gebruik van hetgeen in deze podcast ‘F1 aan Tafel' wordt opgemerkt is ongeoorloofd zonder expliciete schriftelijke toestemming ter zake verkregen van Grand Prix Radio en met inachtneming van een duidelijke bronvermelding met link.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Vandaag zijn we er weer met een nieuwe FCA EK-Daily met Neal Petersen, Willem Weijs, Toine van Peperstraten, Nicky van der Gijp en Bart Obbink! Oranje won overtuigend van Roemenië en Koeman lijkt zijn ideale opstelling te hebben gevonden! We bespreken het uitgebreid na en kijken ook naar de andere wedstrijd in de achtste finales tussen Turkije en Oostenrijk!(0:00) Introductie Willem Weijs en Toine van Peperstraten(09:24) Oranje verslaat Roemenië(13:15) Bellen met Jan Roelfs(22:53) Wie was de man van de wedstrijd?(32:32) De Quiz!(38:26) De wissels van Koeman(41:43) Bellen met Yordi Yamali over Turkije(51:00) Turkije langs Oostenrijk voor plek in de kwartfinale(59:23) Kijken naar de kwartfinalesReserveer een plekje op het zonnige terras van Lagerwal. Elke wedstrijd van het Nederlands elftal kun je daar perfect kijken. Ook voor grote groepen! Reserveer via: https://www.lagerwal.nl/events/ek-met-fc-afkickenZie het privacybeleid op https://art19.com/privacy en de privacyverklaring van Californië op https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Op de nieuwe radiozender van Giel Beelen krijgen wij de kans om onze eigen sportprogramma te maken: Het Sportpaleis van Lars en Thijs. In Het Sportpaleis gaan inhoudelijke analyses en mooie sportverhalen gepaard met de nodige dosis humor.In deze tweede aflevering bellen we met handbal-kenner Stijn Steenhuis over het stoppen van keepster Tess Wester, spreken we nestor Toine van Peperstraten over de promotie van 'zijn' Willem II en hoe je objectief blijft op de perstribune, hebben we het over het geniale seizoen van PSV én komt de heerschappij van Max Verstappen tot een einde? Tevens schrijven we wekelijks onze eigen nieuwsbrief, waarin Lars en ik je iedere donderdag informeren en inspireren met de opvallendste gebeurtenissen achter de coulissen van de sportwereld. Dompel je onder en krijg een bijzonder kijkje achter de schermen met unieke content, geschreven door Lars, mij én bekende sporters. Abonneren kan hier gratis: https://substack.com/@hetsportpaleis 

Interviewer Pieter Stuurman praat met advocaat Meike Terhorst en journalist Toine de Graaf van De Andere Krant over de plannen van de Wereldgezondheidsorganisatie (WHO) voor een nieuw Pandemieverdrag en nieuwe Internationale Gezondheidsrichtlijnen. Deze zullen de WHO, een organisatie van de VN, die zwaar wordt gefinancierd door de farmaceutische industrie, veel meer macht geven over het Nederlandse gezondheidsbeleid. Inmiddels neemt het verzet tegen de WHO-plannen steeds meer toe. In de VS zijn de Republikeinen in het geweer gekomen tegen de WHO. Ook in Nederland zijn vragen gerezen in het parlement. Terhorst werkt samen met het Neder lands Teleartsen Genootschap (NTG) en het Artsen Collectief aan een brief voor Nederlandse parlementariërs. Zij krijgen daarin handreikingen voor wat zij nog verder kunnen ondernemen, zoals zich uitspreken tegen de directeur-generaal van de WHO, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus. Toine de Graaf volgt het WHO-dossier op de voet voor De Andere Krant.---Deze video is geproduceerd door Café Weltschmerz. Café Weltschmerz gelooft in de kracht van het gesprek en zendt interviews uit over actuele maatschappelijke thema's. Wij bieden een hoogwaardig alternatief voor de mainstream media. Café Weltschmerz is onafhankelijk en niet verbonden aan politieke, religieuze of commerciële partijen.Waardeer je onze video's? Help ons in de strijd naar een eerlijker Nederland, vrij van censuur en Steun Café Weltschmerz en word Stamgast!https://cafeweltschmerz.nl/register/Wil je onze nieuwsbrief ontvangen in je mailbox?https://cafeweltschmerz.nl/nieuwsbrief/Wil je op de hoogte worden gebracht van onze nieuwe video's? Klik hierboven dan op Abonneren!

Je bent Nijmegenaar, Nederlander. Misschien voel je je Gelderlander, Brabander of Limburger. Al deze identiteiten helpen ons als burger om onze plek in de samenleving te definiëren en vorm te geven. Maar hoe zit het met ons Europees burgerschap? Voelen we ons ook verbonden met de gemeenschap die ons als Europeanen verenigt? Dit is een vraag die steeds relevanter wordt, vooral gezien de groeiende rol van de Europees instellingen in ons dagelijks leven. Europees burger zijn, wat betekent dat? | Lezing en gesprek met Europarlementariër Toine Manders en politicoloog Anna van der Vleuten | Donderdag 28 maart 2024| 20.00 – 21.30 uur | De Lindenberg, Nijmegen | Radboud Reflects en Europees Parlement Liaisonbureau in Nederland. Lees het verslag: https://www.ru.nl/radboud-reflects/nieuws/europees-burger-zijn-wat-betekent-dat-lezing-en-gesprek-met-europarlementarier-toine-manders-en-politicoloog-anna-van-der-vleuten Of bekijk de video: https://youtu.be/mALXQy9Vooo Like deze video, abonneer je op dit kanaal en mis niks. Bekijk ook de agenda voor nog meer verdiepende lezingen: https://www.ru.nl/radboud-reflects/agenda Wil je geen enkele verdiepende lezing missen? Schrijf je dan in voor de nieuwsbrief: https://www.ru.nl/radboud-reflects/services/nieuwsbrief-radboud-reflects

Here's the long and short of it: Bill Frisell goes orchestral, Emile Parisien is cookin', Nout goes live, Kamasi Washington is back with a prologue to his new album, producer Church Chords channels his inner Hal Willer, and Toine Thys's Orlando sounds better then ever.  Detailed playlist at https://spinitron.com/RFB/pl/18680724/Mondo-Jazz (from "Quartography" onwards). Happy listening! Photo credit: Sylvain Gripoix

Volg De Derde Helft op YouTube, Instagram, TikTok en Twitter.---------

In de podcast ‘Stoere Kerels' bespreken BD-clubwatchers Dolf van Aert en Max van der Put het wel en wee van Willem II. In aflevering 29 wordt de 3-0 overwinning op FC Eindhoven uitgebreid besproken. Belgast is ESPN-presentator (en Willem II-supporter) Toine van Peperstraten.Beluister al onze podcasts: https://www.bd.nl/podcastSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sparta-aanvoerder Bart Vriends, AD-journalist Arjan Schouten en ESPN-presentator Toine van Peperstraten zijn te gast. 

In de Voetbalkantine van 23 februari ontvangen Wouter Bouwman en Yordi Yamali de gasten Fons Groenendijk, Toine van Huizen, Kees Luijckx en Robert Maaskant.

In een wereld waar de druk om een oplossing te vinden voor het zogenaamde klimaatprobleem steeds groter wordt, rijst de vraag: tegen welke prijs? Op zaterdag 18 november had Café weltschmerz een duo-lezing waar we dieper zijn ingegaan op dit gecreëerde probleem. Zijn de kosten werkelijk draagbaar voor de gemiddelde burger, of dreigen ze ons financieel te verstikken? Wat is onze plicht ten opzichte van onze kinderen en de toekomstige generatie?Het ziet ernaar uit dat het volgende kabinet een klimaatkabinet moet worden. Dat betekent veel meer beperkingen en regulering, veel meer inflatie en veel hogere belastingen.Marcel Crok - Stemwijzer KlimaatOnze eerste spreker, Marcel Crok gaat dieper in op de klimaatplannen van de politiek, angst en propaganda, en weerlegt alle onzin met gefundeerde argumenten.Toine Manders - Legale belastingontwijking!Ontdek hoe je politieke agenda's kunt omzeilen met de inzichten van Toine Manders. In deze lezing deelt hij essentiële kennis en strategieën voor legale belastingontwijking. Leer hoe je volledig binnen de wet blijft terwijl je je belastingvoordelen maximaliseert.Een zeer interessante, informatieve en extra uitgebreide aflevering---Deze video is geproduceerd door Café Weltschmerz. Café Weltschmerz gelooft in de kracht van het gesprek en zendt interviews uit over actuele maatschappelijke thema's. Wij bieden een hoogwaardig alternatief voor de mainstream media. Café Weltschmerz is onafhankelijk en niet verbonden aan politieke, religieuze of commerciële partijen.Waardeer je onze video's? Help ons in de strijd naar een eerlijker Nederland, vrij van censuur en Steun Café Weltschmerz en word Stamgast!https://cafeweltschmerz.nl/register/Wil je onze nieuwsbrief ontvangen in je mailbox?https://cafeweltschmerz.nl/nieuwsbrief/Wil je op de hoogte worden gebracht van onze nieuwe video's? Klik hierboven dan op Abonneren!

In deze inspirerende video nemen Pieter Stuurman en zijn bijzondere gast Toine Manders, een gepassioneerde jurist, belastingadviseur en tevens politicus voor BVNL, je mee op een reis door hun kritiek op overheidsbestedingen en belastingen. Toine, vol vuur, onthult hoe de overheid ongelofelijke sommen geld besteedt aan twijfelachtige klimaatprojecten, terwijl belastingen keer op keer omhoogschieten. Ontdek waarom hij zich inzet voor belastingontwijking binnen de grenzen van de wet en hoe hij standvastig zijn principes verdedigt tegen beschuldigingen over het gebruik van publieke voorzieningen en het vergaren van rijkdom.Dompel jezelf onder in dit fascinerende gesprek dat draait om het morele aspect van belastingheffing, waar Manders het ziet als diefstal, met geweld als een van de middelen om eigendommen af te nemen. Van de oorsprong van belastingheffing, beginnend bij roversbendes tot evolueren tot heersers die belastingen oplegden, tot de willekeurige aard van belastingen zelfs met formele procedures en wetboeken - dit gesprek onthult de diepten van het belastingstelsel.Laat je meeslepen door een boeiend betoog over het decentraliseren van macht en het vergroten van individuele vrijheid als een sprankelende oplossing voor conflicten. Ontdek waarom Manders pleit voor een drastische verkleining van de overheid en waarom het van vitaal belang is om het draagvlak voor meer vrijheid te vergroten voordat we de stappen naar verandering zetten. Mis dit meeslepende gesprek niet en krijg inzicht in het morele onrecht van belastingheffing!Wil je meer weten? Zorg ervoor dat je op zaterdag 18 november Toine Manders niet mist als een van de sprekers tijdens een boeiende lezing georganiseerd door Weltschmerz. Krijg alle details via onderstaande link:https://www.cafeweltschmerz.nl/lezing-zaterdag-18-november-weerbaar-tegen-politieke-agenda/---Deze video is geproduceerd door Café Weltschmerz. Café Weltschmerz gelooft in de kracht van het gesprek en zendt interviews uit over actuele maatschappelijke thema's. Wij bieden een hoogwaardig alternatief voor de mainstream media. Café Weltschmerz is onafhankelijk en niet verbonden aan politieke, religieuze of commerciële partijen.Waardeer je onze video's? Help ons in de strijd naar een eerlijker Nederland, vrij van censuur en Steun Café Weltschmerz en word Stamgast!https://cafeweltschmerz.nl/register/Wil je onze nieuwsbrief ontvangen in je mailbox?https://cafeweltschmerz.nl/nieuwsbrief/Wil je op de hoogte worden gebracht van onze nieuwe video's? Klik hierboven dan op Abonneren!

A special episode where Co-Host Kevin Kayongo sits down w/ Xavier Alumni Toine to discuss everything surrounding Xavier's first ever Black Tailgating Event!

Une nouvelle de Guy de MaupassantProposé par audiolude.frNarrateur : Alain CouchotLa Chambre 11 est une nouvelle publiée en 1884 dans le journal Gil Blas, puis reprise dans le recueil Toine. Elle raconte l'histoire de Madame Amandon, une femme mariée à un haut fonctionnaire de province, qui mène une double vie sous le nom de Mademoiselle Clarisse. Elle choisit ses amants parmi les officiers de la garnison locale, qu'elle reçoit discrètement dans la chambre 11 de l'auberge du Cheval d'Or. Mais un jour, son stratagème va se retourner contre elle, lorsqu'un drame se produit dans la chambre où elle a rendez-vous avec son amant. La nouvelle met en scène le thème de l'adultère, cher à Maupassant, avec un ton ironique et cruel. L'auteur dépeint le caractère ardent, décidé et organisé de Madame Amandon, qui contraste avec son apparence modeste et chaste. Il montre aussi les risques et les conséquences de la tromperie, qui peut conduire au scandale et à la mort. La Chambre 11 est une œuvre qui mêle réalisme et suspense, et qui révèle la maîtrise narrative de Maupassant.

Listen in as (Co-Host) Kevin continues his conversation with Toine on life post-college and the biggest lessons so far!

Listen in as co-host Kevin sits down with Antoine Hudson to discuss everything happening in the current NBA starting with Damian Lillard's trade to the Bucks

ESPN-presentator Toine van Peperstraten, NOS-commentator Jan Roelfs en Art Langeler, hoofd voetbalontwikkeling bij FC Groningen, blikken terug op de afgelopen sportweek. 

La bétoine ou épiaire officinale (Stachys officinalis) a été mise au tiroir dans la pratique du 20e et 21e siècle. Voici une invitation à reprendre contact avec cette lamiacée médicinale. Abonnez-vous à la lettre d'information gratuite ! C'est ici : ➜ www.altheaprovence.com/podcast-lettreinfo ---------------------------- La transcription du podcast : ➜ https://www.altheaprovence.com/la-betoine-ou-epiaire-officinale-stachys-officinalis-plante-oubliee/

My guest this week is a 2nd generation grower carrying on the family tradition of embracing innovation and sustainable growing practices to ensure the highest quality Phalaenopsis orchids are produced. Now growing and selling over 4 million orchids a year, Toine Overgaag of Westerlay Orchids is sharing his family's flower journey from roses to orchids, tips on growing Phals, and what's next as their business continues to grow and innovate. Learn more about Toine and Westerlay Orchids, plus all of our past guests by visiting TheFlowerPodcast.com Subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. We are available on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcast, Spotify, Stitcher, Amazon Music, Gaana, and many more! Subscribe to our YouTube Channel for access to all of our Zoom chats, tutorials, IG Lives, and video extras. Sponsors of The Flower Podcast ASCFG Farmer Bailey Chrysal Rooted Farmers Real Flower Business Accent Decor The Gardeners Workshop Alaska Peony Cooperative

Hugo Borst, Simon Zwartkruis en Toine van Peperstraten zijn te gast in het Sportforum. 

This episode of the Foto Podcast is from a podcast I recorded with Rodney in 2012. I've re-edited this conversation to improve the sound quality from its original recording and reworked the audio presentation. I feel very fortunate that Rodney took the time to chat with me over ten years ago. When he unexpectedly passed in 2016, I realized how lucky I was to be able to spend a brief amount of time with him.Rodney was incredibly kind to me through our email exchanges, this recording, and a short 2-hour personal visit to his house in New York in the Spring of 2013. I probably spent 4 hours conversing with him in some form or another, but he left an unforgettable impression on me. I respect his work and artistic vision, but I will never forget him for his grace, openness, and thoughtfulness. We live in a boisterous and fast-moving world, but this conversation with Rodney always reminds me to slow down and turn down the noise in my life. He lived at his own pace, and what you see in his images reflects Rodney's personality. I hope this audio recording will give you a glimpse into his motivations, creative process, and the deep critical thinking he put into everything. Learn more about Rodney Smith at rodneysmith.comThe Rodney Smith Estate has released a new book entitled Rodney Smith: A Leap of Faith.“The first retrospective on the work of Rodney Smith weaves together a bio-critical essay by Getty Museum curator Paul Martineau and an assessment of Smith's technique by the Center for Creative Photography's chief curator, Rebecca A. Senf. Introduction by Graydon Carter. It maps Smith's creative trajectory—including his introduction to photography, early personal projects, teaching, commissioned pieces, and career in fashion—and provides insight into his personal life and character, contextualizing his work and creative tendencies within his complex emotional and psychological makeup. Rodney Smith is the definitive record of the life's work and worldview of a truly original artist.”I recently received a copy of A Leap of Faith, and it's an incredible book that is printed beautifully. This is not a paid sponsorship of any kind. I'm genuinely grateful for Rodney Smith taking the time to chat with me 11 years ago, and I think you'll appreciate his work and his approach to life and art. Rodney Smith Podcast Transcription:I'm 65 years old, so I've been a photographer for 45 years. I guess there's a fair amount of experience with that. And, um, and I've gone through quite a bit, um, as far as the changes in photography. but going all the way back, probably the very first, I don't know, maybe a slightly unconscious inclination that I wanted to be a photographer started when I was 16 years old and my father gave me a camera.I took a teen tour. That's what kind of popular when I was a young boy. with oth with other students my age, and we went around the United States and then we went into Mexico my father gave me a camera for that trip. on the, the, the Mexican part of the trip, we took a train from New Villa Laredo, Texas to Mexico City.I remember this actually quite well. And [00:05:00] the train, there was a landslide across the tracks on the train. And the train stopped and it was sort of took about four days for them to clear the rocks from the tracks. And during those four days, we would get out off the train or there were many young children from Mayville Villages who would come by the train trying to sell everybody something.And And it was their faces that really, um, appealed to me.And I remember when I got back after the tours all over, my father looked at these pictures and, uh, there were no pictures of my contemporaries on the trip who were my, you know, people from all over the country were my age. But there were all these pictures of Mexican children. And, um, I remember my father being kind of discouraged and saying, why aren't there any pictures of you're contemporaries, that was probably the very first, and I guess somewhat unconsciously, I said inclination. The main kind of epiphany when I actually knew I said this, I want to be a photographer, was much later [00:06:00] when I was in college, probably my senior junior, I can't remember exactly whether it was my junior or senior year in college.And I was home for the holidays, just around this time, actually, probably a little later in, in December. But, I remember I went to the Museum of Modern Art, um, which had a permanent collection of photography. Um, I'm a New Yorker and so I was home in Manhattan. and I'd been there many times before and I don't know exactly what initiated me to go to this collection of pictures I had seen before, but I did.And I think the important part of this was that Edward Steon was still the curator of photography at that point, and I think his sensibilities were much closer to Toine, than maybe more contemporary curators. the permanent collection was composed of pictures of Gene Smith, Arthur Lang, Margaret Burke, white Stieglitz, and Steon.And I remember walking through this, gallery and thinking, having an epiphany. And I remember basically having it in front of Eugene Smith picture, and thinking, oh my [00:07:00] God, I can do this. , and this is what I want to do. And I think it's a, that's a fairly simplistic response to a very complicated question.But from that moment on, I knew that this is what I was going to do with my life. Now, I don't think it meant to me that I was gonna copy the work of these people. I think what I realized at that moment was I, I could take my feelings and put them on a piece of paper.And I think that's what the revelation was to me. That I had all these anxieties and these fears and all these feelings, tremendously powerful feelings inside me without an outlet to express them. And I realized that photography was the perfect medium for me to do this. And from that moment on, and it was a number of years.Afterwards that I actually became a photographer. But from that moment on, I knew I wanted to be a photographer.[00:08:00] in college I was an English major and then I became a religious studies major and I, um, was sort of both. I graduated with both and then I went on to graduate school to study theology actually, and, but also with the intention of taking half my credits in the photography program.I wanted my degree to be in [00:09:00] theology, not photography. but I did, while I was in graduate school, singularly learn my craft, I spent a great deal of time and the program at that time was really quite wonderful. Learning, the craft of photography. We learned the Z Zone system photography.One you had to use a large format camera. And it was a really great discipline. So I learned the craft, but I also learned what I, I, I developed a vision, or I nurtured a vision of what I wanted to say is about studying theology. unfortunately, and I probably, somewhat uncomfortable for a lot of people.I think, and I, I don't wanna say this unequivocally, that I think this is the case in most time, but it's very hard to nurture a vision studying the craft of photography. I think that the, one of the last places one would really learn to be a photographer is in an art school, just studying photography.Now I know that's probably not a popular thing, but that's sort of how, what I believe, I think one has to have a vision and how [00:10:00] one nurtures and develops that vision, I think is by, doing something quite contradictory to the physical craft of making a picture.I didn't study theology with any intention for looking for any answers to questions. I, I studied theology to, to sort of initiate the questions. Um, from 40 years later, I still don't have any answers. And, and I'm not sure I actually believe I could have them, but, but what I really did love was learning how to ask the right questions.And that's, that's what studying theology did, did for me. Now, what, what do I mean by that? Asking the right questions. Well, I think theology or some of the issues that really were important to me were questions about human [00:11:00] existence. Who are we? What do we stand for? How do we fit into this world around us?What is the nature of evil? What is the nature of good? What is the nature of man? And so it's all these questions about how the human being fits into the world and the surroundings around him. And those are still some of the prevalent themes I think, that are really important in my work. So, While I was studying the craft of photography, I was sort of, I was hope anyway.And I, I think it, I think correctly I was nurturing this vision about, or learning for how to perform to my feelings intellectually so that I could sort of integrate the two when I actually began to make pictures. And I think it worked out during the time of me doing this. I mean, I had tremendous disapproval and, um, I don't know, people were kind of a guess, why are you doing this?Why are you wasting your time studying theology? You know, I was in my [00:12:00] family, I was expected to do something more business-like, or do something. They're quite different. and nobody, except for my wife or the done, no one who gave me any support, they all thought I was totally crazy. But I actually. And I probably couldn't articulate it exactly why I thought it was really important to do it.I just intuitively knew in my heart that this is what I wanted to do and um, I'm actually very happy I did it. I don't have any regretsI'm definitely of the school of thought that you sort of, your present is definitely formed from your past. Um, and so I I I, I would definitely think that probably a, a great deal of it is not, I don't know all of it, but a great deal of it derived from my upbringing. Um, my, my mother and father who are now both dead close to 40 years.Um, my mother 30 and my father 40 would be kind of shocking that they're still still such a prevalent and powerful force in my life. But they [00:13:00] are. And um, you know, I was, my parents were very, my father was very affluent. He was a CEO in, uh, some fashion companies and I grew up sort of in a 19th century.lifestyle and existence. Um, when I look what it, what seemed quite normal and natural to me as a young boy. Now when I look back on it seems, you know, really from the 19th century. there was this kind of real love of refined things.Things were always beautifully done. Everything was perfectly in its place. There was an order to everything. There were many people who taken care of, you know, servants who made things perfect and beautiful. And even though part of me was rebellious against that, I always loved it. I mean, quite honestly, I did, I, not that I loved some of the accoutrements of it, but the, if you looked at it physically, I loved it.And it definitely had an effect on me. And I think my pictures represent the [00:14:00] more positive aspects. Of my life. I don't think they, my upbringing, I mean they, um, I'm not saying that at all. They are. That's the way it was. Cause there was a lot of negative things to it. Many negative things. Perhaps even more negative things than positive things.But, the pictures are represent that world at its very finest. It's sort of like an affirmation of what can be, what a gentleman really, what the word gentleman, if you define it and you just dissect it, you know, to a gentle man or a nobleman. It, it's sort of those things, if they really existed in the world, if there really were gentlemen and if they really were nobleman, it's not that it's impossible, but it's slightly out of reach.that's sort of what I think my pictures are about. Sort of how does one sort of aspire to greatness? What you have this potential inside you and how do you realize this? I think that's sort of what the pictures are. one last thing about that, now [00:15:00] I'm, as I said, 65. So one in the sixties, the very early sixties when Kennedy was president.I was in high school. I was I think a junior in high school. And, um, that era was, you know, there was like the last feig of sort of, uh, what I would refer to as elegance and grace and beauty in, in a lot of things. Not just fashion, which my father was very much a part of, but many things was still, there was a world was holding onto it.And then the hippie movement, the anti-war movement in the sixties, it all sort of tore all that apart. But the early sixties, maybe up to 65 or something like that, 64, 65 were the last remnants. Of an error, like was when Carrie Grant and, um, and Audrey Hepburn and Leslie Caron and all were still really popular.It was, it was a slightly different era and then everything changed in the, by the, by the 1970s and the world became a different place.[00:16:00] I hear that comment, something like that quite often. Um, that, that you could tell a story from the pictures that you were sort of caught in the middle of the story and you're curious about what happened prior and afterwards. I have to tell you consciously anyway, when I'm taking the pictures, I'm not aware of that at all.but I am kind of a literary soul. I've al in every book I've ever done, there's always been writing. I've done four books and that every book has writing and photographs in it in one form or another. I always been around writers. I, when I was very young in college, before I decided I wanted to be a photographer, I thought I was gonna be a novel.But I, I, I had the sentiment but not the skill, and I quickly realized that. So, but I guess [00:17:00] writing has always, um, been a part of me. So when you say that about the pictures, that's actually quite a compliment to me because I'm not aware of it. But if they do tell a story, uh, or there's like a fragment of the story, that would be kind of a wonderful thing and I would really like that.Although when I'm taking it, I'm not aware of that.the pictures are taken completely spontaneously. I know this is one of the ironies to me of, of a lot of, sort of sets off a whole discrepancy about photography in general and modern photography, but all the pictures was referred to as the lifestyle pictures of the last 10 years or 15 years are much more controlled and created.even though they look like they're spontaneous and of the moment, they're much more created pictures than mine, which look very serene, controlled. My pictures five seconds before I took the picture, I didn't know I was gonna take that picture. And not in a hundred percent of the instances, but at least 60, [00:18:00] 70 or 80% of the time, the picture is completely spontaneous and I may have set something up and so, but I don't know what the, what the end product's gonna look like.And then all of a sudden something, somebody does something or something happens, or the light changes, or it can be many things. And all of a sudden I say, take the picture and I take the picture. And I didn't know I was gonna take that exact picture five seconds before I took it. so I think that's kind of always been kind of interesting to me that although my pictures look quite serene and controlled and um, like they were art, art directed, um, or created under sort of very sort of, um, Rigid requirements.Totally the opposite.I'm definitely always first looking for the location, which would be the landscape or the environment. Once, once I've found the environment, I can always make the pictures. you know, I was, when I was very young, I was a landscape photographer, um, as well as shooting portraits. And [00:19:00] then I think one of the great things that happened to me was, , I began to integrate the two together.I began to put people into the landscape, which is a very different thing than placing somebody in front of something. I think most people take pictures in an environment and they stick a figure or a person or a thing in front of something and they refer to that. You know, as, I don't know that term.I can't stand environmental portraits or whatever that is. I the term I really do not like. But that, that's not the way I would operate. The person has to be sort of placed in an environment as part of it. And actually it goes back to the previous question about the spontaneity of the, of the pictures.The reason why I can shoot these pictures so quickly is because I can very quickly get to this place where I think everything is right. I mean, almost instantaneously I will know this is the place I need to make this picture. Now, there may be a few other places too, but I'll start at this place that feels absolutely right to me.but for me, the pictures are, are totally [00:20:00] controlled or by the environment. That's why the location work for me is by far the hardest part of making pictures is finding a location I like. and then once I've found, , which is a really rigorous and very exhausting process. but once I found this, this location, I don't want to know what the picture's gonna look like.I, you know, when I'm scouting it, it may be gray or rainy, or it may be it's sunny and then the day of the shoot it's raining. Or I may look at it in the morning and I may be there in the afternoon and the light's totally different. So I never know what the picture is I'm gonna make there, nor do I want to.I've never shot Polaroids in my life. I don't want to do any of that things. I just want to trust my instincts. And once I've found a place that seems appropriate or great, I'll say I can make pictures here and that's all I want to know. And then I'll go away until the, until the time I physically shoot the.there are sometimes requirements about what I, I need to find, but the, probably it's the same thing no matter what I'm looking for. And that [00:21:00] is a place that has a sense of history to it, which is hard for me in America. , I, it's gotta have a certain Betina to it and character to it.Um, sometimes it's the question of the light in the place, but it's, it's, it's a whole thing, a landscape. It's just gotta feel ex eccentric or original or special. To me. It's definitely my vision. but I think like if I'm looking for an interior place, There's kind of a characteristic that's involved that's in all the pictures, and that is, it's got a certain history to it and depth has been sort of aged nicely.I rarely would shoot in a brand new location that, that hasn't aged or settled into its environment. I sort of like how things fit into a place and if, unless the location does that on some level, there isn't a history there, I probably wouldn't be interested in it. you know, I was once doing a shoot in Phoenix, Arizona, you know, and I remember scouting the city of Phoenix and I [00:22:00] couldn't find anything that I really felt worked.I mean, it was to do it more hotel and a few other things I thought were great. But what I found really great was the landscape around Phoenix. I mean the part that was untouched. and that's where I ended up shooting the picture. Sometimes, often if I'm in Paris or in London, I can find hundreds of locations that appeal to me.because they have this history to them. The man or somebody has interacted with this location for, for quite a while, and it, and that you can feel the patina of the interaction of the two. and that's what, that's what really I like.And also, you know, American cities, um, they build these skyscrapers and they tint the glass to keep the light out. in Europe, luckily still, the older buildings are all oriented and, and the windows are such to let the light in. that's a, that's a huge distinction. You know, they act in European buildings, least, you know, the ones that are, I'm attracted to.The light is like a portico. [00:23:00] It's like this entryway. um, and really wonderful things happen with the light. Well, in most new American cities, it's, again, it's to keep all the light out and to keep the temperature and the humidity and the light all controlled from the inside.I teach a workshop, infrequently, but every once in a while and all these photographers come to the workshop and they do not have a voice at all. well, some of them do, but it's pretty minor. Um, and, you know, there's this discussion about whether it's a question of talent, or do you have a question that everyone has their own voice, they just can't express it.And I'm definitely of the school that everyone does have a voice. They just don't know how to express it or expose it. This pops a better word. because this enormous fear is preventing them [00:24:00] from doing it, I mean, you have to tap into the part of yourself that goes really deep.And most people don't know how to do that. Sometimes by a gift of God, somebody has that intuitively or naturally, but that's a very rare gift and I've actually never seen it. most often, people foil themselves, you know, they, they have all these fears and anxieties and frustrations, whether it be dealing with other people or their own fears, their anxieties, and they never get to the level that's required to.Really have a singular voice. I mean, that's the difference between the hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people who take pictures and the few who, who actually are photographers. And it's not so much that I, from my point of view, that one has an innately more talent than the others. Now, a lot of people would argue with that, but I don't think they do.I just think they're able to tap into the deepest, part of their emotional being. And let that part out. And then you never have to worry about being a second rate somebody else. You can much more be a frustrate yourself because no one has your life experiences.No one has your feelings, no one has your thoughts. All those things are unique and special to you. So if you can reach this level they can begin to express the things that reside deep within them, and then all of a sudden their pictures take on a special characteristic that is unique to them and they begin to develop a voice.I think people are, are sort of copying everybody and mimicking everybody and running around buying the right equipment and doing everything that's completely unnecessary to develop a voice. They think that's what they need to do, but it's the last thing that they need to do. If anything, they need to step back and let something begin to emerge from deep within them.That's what will create this special voice. And it's a very hard thing to do. And I think Chuck Close's comment is right. I think photography is particularly through the digital age, much more than even prior when there was a real craft to printing. that there is the most sort of facile of mediums that one can learn even through by taking with a, telephone.You can take a pretty competent picture, but what I mean, but, but what distinguishes one picture from another is the kind of the emotional content of that picture.I've been doing this for 45 years and I still use the same camera that I did when I started 40 years ago. I'm very, very rigorous with my craft. I mean, I'm extremely rigorous. Um, you know, I expose the film very properly and, and so when the day, and I went through a many years of really learning how to expose my film and make prints that represented [00:27:00] my emotional psyche.I mean, I really like dark sh shadow detail and differentiation between that. And my prince used to represent that. And if I was much more interested in highlights, I would've done things quite differently anyway. Anyway, I really loved and grew to really know film. And then when the digital world came along, um, I, there's, there's a great aphorism, but changes, not necessarily an improvement.And I've been watching the digital world very closely and we know I'm kind of a consultant to Epson and we produce digital prints as well as prints that are done in the dark room. You know, we scan the film and then, Make really beautiful, large mural prints, so I, I definitely in it and everybody works for me, is very digitally competent.For myself personally, I haven't seen any reason to change. Personally, I don't really like the digital cameras. Um, I don't like seeing the picture immediately. As I said, I never shot Polaroids. I like the experience. I like to focus on the [00:28:00] experience of making the picture not on what the pic. Every single time everyone stops and looks at the picture, you've interrupted the whole process of making the picture.That would be a terrible thing for me. I like to just to go through the whole process, focus on the thing I am doing, and I like the mystery of not knowing exactly what's on the film. Um, I, I, I don't really like the digital process that much. Now, it may get to a point where I can't get film, which is sort of beginning to happen already, or I can't do the thing and I may have to make that change.But at this point, I would hope actually I have so many people, young people coming to me who say that they really love film much better than digital and they, they shoot on film. So there seems to be a kind of a minor resurgence in film. And it's not that I'm just, you know, such a recluse that I don't engage in the world.I mean, I live in New York, so I'm pretty much so on some level, you know, engaged with what's going on. And if I ever felt that the digital thing was so [00:29:00] much better than what I'm doing, I would change. But so far, most people seem to really love the pictures I make on film. And when we blow them up really big, there's a certain quality to them that people really love.Like I've had many shows at very, you know, at Brooks or um, all the technical schools and all the students who are really technically minded, love the Prince. They keep saying, how did you do this print? No. So, um, for me it's just that there's really no reason to change and of anything, I was kind of in shock that just because something became new, that everyone immediately embraced it.I, I think they must have felt they had to, that, you know, art directors required it or, uh, the world required or, or whatever. And quite honestly, I've never, no art directors ever required me ever that I shoot digitally and they actually kind of like that I shoot on film. They all say, oh my God, this is great. I, I like the fact that, you know, I'm gonna get contact sheets. I really like this. [00:30:00] You know, so, um, I'm sure that there are constraints put on people that they want this, they want that, but I think it's more important for you to tell them what you like best.my previous father-in-law was a really wonderful playwright and, um, very well known American playwright. And over his desk, he used to have this little sign that said, no one asked you to, no one ever asked you to be a playwright. and I think that that's really true. I mean, you, I could wallpaper my walls with rejections.I mean, I've, over my life I've had 50 to one rejection, um, maybe a hundred to one rejection. Um, and since it's such a personal medium, um, for me, this is not a job. This is my exposing my life and my soul and my [00:31:00] pictures. There's no way one can take it personally. It is personal. and I've had many high points.I've had really good years and really, really terrible years, both from financial points of view, from creative points of view, from everything. , but I just, must have something in the way down deep inside me, this knowledge that this is what I chose to do. No one put a gun to my head and said, this is what you must do.And so I chose this, you know, freely and when I'm really down, I just say, you know, you've gotta stick with it. And there have been hundreds of times I thought, I don't want to do this anymore. Um, um, either I have nothing more to say or I don't want to do it, or financially it's been so difficult in my early years it was so difficult and it's still, there was terrible years.I mean, like after nine 11, it was really, I mean, there's been many, many years when things were really terrible from a financial point of view and a creative point of view, or the job, everything. And so [00:32:00] there's like, at times 45% of me that doesn't ever want to take a picture again, that I'm done. And, but there's, luckily there's 55% of me that wants to keep on doing it.that just sort of gets me through it. You know, Hemingway used to always talk about that he would always stop writing the day before and someplace that he wanted to continue because if he didn't have that place the next day to go to, he is not sure he'd ever pick up a pen again. But he looked, had this place where he looked forward to going forward.And, um, I'm not sure I have that. I mean, I definitely can get kind of burnt out and I think the environment or the location or the model sometimes, but, um, many times it's the sense of place around me is what motivates me to take, make pictures. And so that sometimes has to be in a new place and so I can get kind of stuck like everybody else and then I just, um, have to force myself to keep on on going., after 45 years, [00:33:00] I've kind of, um, got this regimen that I. It's not perfect by any means. There's definitely problems with it, but I kind of like, you know, I'm, I don't shoot, you know, I probably only shoot, you know, 30, 40, 50 days a year. which is plenty, which provides me with a lot of, and then, you know, I work on exhibitions or I do all kinds of other things as well.I'm always working around photography, I mean, all the time, but I don't have to be physically shooting to do that. when I was very young, I used to collect, like convince people to buy photography and when nobody wanted to, and this is in the seventies, and I once went to Andre Cortez's apartment and I was talking to him when I was buying a print for somebody.He told me that he would go six months or a year without ever taking a picture. I could understand that perfectly. I could go six months or a year without taking a picture yet. I'd still always be a photographer. for other people I know they have to shoot every day or all the time, or they feel that they're gonna lose it or they're not a [00:34:00] photographer, but that's not the way I work.I think most fashion photography today is pretty mediocre. I think it's all about celebrity and status and they all have the right lunch and the right, they know they date the right models and they all meet the, you know, the right art directors and it's just like in a group that just supports itself, but it's all very mediocre.I don't think that there's this great vision that drives the photographs. Okay. Now having said that, that's just one thing. And I think there have been, I think fashion photography's had its periods where it was the mo really distinguished in the world of photography. I think, you know, in the forties and fifties and perhaps in the sixties, I think Irving Penn.and Norman Parkinson and a few other people were incredible photographers, had a great vision and were quite extraordinary. I think today there's all this celebrity about around these photographers, but I think it's what you do about nothing. And I think the models are the same way. but I do think what is lacking in photo, in fashion photography is not something that, that's, it's actually that hard to find.Again, I find, I, I guess [00:35:00] I have to digress for a second and tell you a story. I probably wrote this once in a blog many years ago. This wasn't quite a fashion shoot. I did, but it was close to it in the sense of the, what, what I thought was wonderful about fashion. I did, I used to God, oh, 20 years ago, 25 years ago, coach Leather had a campaign called Descendants of Famous People, and they photographed all the grandchildren or the daughters or the aunts or whatever of well-known people.And I did about four or five of them. I, I remember the Nathan Daniel Boone's nephew, and I did, the one I'm talk, gonna talk about was Babe Ruth's niece. I photographed her at Yankee Stadium in, um, New York, which is kind of the appropriate place to do it.And I didn't have a chance. Usually I, sometimes I, sometimes I have a chance to meet the person I'm gonna photograph. Um, prior to, but in this case, she lived, I think in Maryland or Virginia, I'm not sure. And they had a flyer up for the shoot. [00:36:00] And I meet her the morning of the shoot in a, you know, in a location van, um, outside the stadium.And I meet her and, you know, I could tell that she feels really terrible about herself. She's looking down, she's kind of forlorned. She, I can just feel like she wants to just disappear. in, into the background, I understood that she was raised in a small trailer, um, in, in Virginia, wherever. And she had really no relation to Babe Ruth other than the fact that she was his niece.But she came from very humble means and was really kind of almost embarrassed about this whole. Thing of taking a picture and just pushed the whole thing would go away. I could feel all this in her presence. So I introduced myself. I tell her, I'm the photographer who's gonna take your picture and if we're gonna take you into this location van, and there's gonna be a woman who's gonna do your hair and another woman's gonna do your makeup and we're gonna style you and dress you and all that.And, and I said, while, while they're doing all that, I'm gonna go away for an hour and go look and find the right location to make the picture of you. [00:37:00] So I go away for an hour and I come back, and I go into the location van and there's this totally different person than the person I had first met before she went into the van.She was standing upright. She looked really beautiful. She became. I saw what a little bit of hair, makeup and new clothes and being pampered, what it could really do to, not just the physical look of this person, but the whole internal emotional sense of who she was. She was transformed and I thought, oh my God, this is an incredible experience.This is a wonderful look. Look, look what fashion can do. Instead of making people feel intimidated or that they're unattractive or something like that, it can make them feel empowered and beautiful and wonderful. This is like a Cinderella story, so I take her for a few hours, I make her portrait. She's looking really beautiful and you know, she, she just looked content and happy and I [00:38:00] think really enjoyed the experience.Goes back to the location. Van takes off all the clothes, you know, goes back to her original clothes and walks out of the van exactly who the person was when she first entered the van with her head down and she goes back to the person she was. Now, I think the important thing of this story for me, it's not really a fashion story, but it is what fashion can do.It is about style and grace and elegance and feeling beautiful and wonderful and special. And it's not about being intimidated because you don't have the money to buy these clothes or you have to have this closed, or you have to have the hottest, newest, ugliest thing imaginable in order to be valuable and worthwhile, that you can have a sense of style and grace intrinsic to yourself.That it comes from inside you, not from the outside. the outside stuff. The accoutrements can help you realize who you really are. So that's again, another place where a personal style is very [00:39:00] helpful I do, I do, I love shooting fashion. It's actually really fits me. and I like the big production of it.I like I'm the kind of photographer that can work with 20 people around me and it. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I sort of like it. I like the collaboration of everybody, the stylists I've worked with for years. And she'll say, you know, look at this, or This person looks like great here. Or my assistant will say, oh, you should look over there.It looks really great. I love when people do that. I feel it's like this collaborative effort. I like the whole experience of it. I do think that women, this is, you know, I think the world is kind of, so particularly now our soul full of ironies.I think, you know, that most women would not agree with me about this at all, but I think it's been a real give and take before women in the last 25 years, and I'm not sure that they've been given more than, than they. Wanted, yes, they've achieved incredible power to be sort of equal to men. They, you know, they're now working on getting the same rewards as men.Financially [00:40:00] they've achieved great. And I think all that's wonderful. But I always thought, even though my father was a very powerful person, you, you know, as I mentioned, he was the CEO of many companies, and he was, people were really intimidating him. I always thought my mother was the real power in the family.He would never, she in her own private way, controlled everything and got exactly what she wanted. It was a, it wasn't as overt as it is today. It wa it was more subtle, but there was this kind of wonderful thing, quality about her. And she had this incredible life and my father worked very hard to support her.Um, and so she could do what she wanted to do. So, I am not sure what we've gained is better than what we lost. Uh, maybe it is. Probably it is. And anyway, it's not going backwards. That's the way it is. But there is something really wonderful about, um, a kind of more graceful or a delicate, maybe understated power, like that quote you gave of me, [00:41:00] rather than the more overt one.Like when I shot Elizabeth Hurley, who is all about give it, give it to me baby. I mean, she was, um, you know, um, and versus a woman who has a real sense of herself and walks more delicately and quietly,I think, you know, one of the things was, I sort of animated or discussed slightly before was when I was very young, I didn't have a penny. Um, and I was really struggling. One of the ways I was able, I taught a great deal, but one of the other ways I was able to at least make a living pay my mortgage was I convinced people that photography was a really good investment and I would make a small commission.I would buy photographs for people. And one of the things I learned was how little, the curators of photography and the art gallery directors and all these people who were sort of the professionals and experts in [00:42:00] photography knew about photography.They basically knew nothing. They knew how to sell it, , they knew how to talk about it, but they really had not a clue about really what it meant to be a photographer or what the struggles that somebody like Stieglitz or Strand or anybody who's really first grade would go through to really distinguish themselves photographically.Um, it's not so much the financial hardships or meeting the right people or getting the right equipment or all the things on the surface. Those things everybody has in whatever work they do. And there's really no difference. It's just a different set of rules.And what the struggle really comes down to is the emotional struggle. And that is knowing that, you know, the all Socratic oath of no thy self. And learning how to come to grips and deal with the emo your emotional [00:43:00] core, and being able to express and expose that onto a two-dimensional flat piece of paper, is a very, very difficult thing.And then asking people who have not had your experiences, who do not care about you, who do not even know, like people in Russia who don't even know anything about you or the place you live or your experiences, and say, look at this picture and think it's worthwhile. The only way you can really do that on a consistent basis.Yes, you can do something kind of titillating or interesting or on a few pictures, but over a whole body of work. The only way you can really do that is if you are touching something universal. If you are speaking from your heart in a language that everyone can understand because the human psyche and spirit goes way deeper than the culture.And so if you are able to transcend or translate your own personal feelings and put them onto a piece of paper that is a very rigorous [00:44:00] and difficult thing to do and, and requires enormous struggle and turmoil on your part, that's why living kind of the artistic life is not something to be denigrated.It is a very, very difficult and very rare process that very few people, not that they're not capable of doing it, but are willing to take the risks. That that involves 99% of people are not capable or able or knowledgeable enough to do it. It's not that they can't, it's just that they won.um, I have a got a good fortune to be an intern for. Ansel Adams for a week in Carmel when I was in my twenties. And I noticed, you know, he used to meet people and I, I noticed, first of all, I went there. My photographs when I was very young, looked absolutely nothing like his, but I learned all my [00:45:00] technique from him within his own system.So I was really very anxious to have a chance to meet him and work with him. And it was great. Um, and I learned every time when I would go in the dark room with him or when I was sitting around talking to him, I would, he, I would ask him every technical question I could think of that I wanted resolved.And he was very generous and would answer me. But, and what I learned after this week of sort of probing and listening and having him listening sometimes talk to other people and stuff, was that he would tell you exactly what was necessary in order to do something. And basically, just generally what he'd be saying was like, if you want to be a classic scholar, you gotta learn German, you have to learn Latin, you have to read, you have to study, you have to pay your dues, you have to do all these things.and that's how you really get to a place through experience, through testing, through knowledge, through all these different things that will get you to this place where you can be really competent and capable. And I found that nobody, although they all listened to him, [00:46:00] And they nodded their head in agreement.In the end, nobody wanted to pay any attention to 'em. They went off and go, they really, what they really wanted from Ansel Adams was tell me this pill, give me this pill I can take so I can make my pictures look like yours or tell me the quick answer so I can learn how to do something as well as you do it.I want this in five minutes or less, you know? But I really don't wanna spend all the time that's required and all the effort and work you've put into it to do this. And unfortunately, that's not the way the world is. You know, you, you, you sort of get what you pay for, kind of metaphorically speaking about your craft, your technique, your vision, everything.It's not something that you can just, you know, meet the right person, do all this, take a pill, wear the right clothes, be in the right place, whatever it is, have the right camera, have the right, you know, equipment, whatever that is also beside the point. The point is [00:47:00] nurturing and learning and developing a vision that is special and unique to you.Learning what equipment that best represents that vision. Developing it, nurturing it, working on it, reflecting on it, struggling with it. That's what's required to do it, and it's not easy. Takes years. I've never, and I've had the good opportunity to meet many, many well-known people that I really care about, whether mostly writers or playwrights or painters or people of, of great esteem, and not one of them, at least in my, my personal experience, I've never met anybody who was instantaneously successful in my experience.Every one, oh, I totally respect, has worked years to get to that place.I mean, it's, it's, it's, but it's fun to do this. That's, you see, the thing is nobody wants to do it, but when they get immersed in it, it's part of the adventure. the best part of being a photographer is going out, engaging the world, meeting people. And taking, and making the picture, [00:48:00] the actual product, the end result, the artifact is never as good as the experience of making the picture.To me, it's always a disappointment. Now, for other people, like if I mess my wife, she would say that the, the artifact is much better than the experience. And I think many people have said that I can make the world look perhaps slightly better than it was right in front of me. So for many people, the observer, the, the photograph is even better than the experience.But for me, person who's taking the picture or making the picture, the experience of making the picture is the reason why I'm a photographer. I love the interaction with the world, meeting people, engaging people, being a part of the world, having it being sunny, rainy, cloudy, overcast.and somehow having something wonderful immersed from it. That's what I love about being a photographer. that's why being in the studio, all of that has no appeal to me. It's, it's engaging the world we live in. Having an [00:49:00] excuse to participate in it, in a kind of really positive and wonderful way.Saying yes to life over and over again, despite how many hardships you may have. That's the part that I really love. Get full access to Foto at fotoapp.substack.com/subscribe

In de dagelijkse podcast van FC Afkicken bespreken Bruce Tol, Wouter Boerkamp en Lars Jesse van Eijden op woensdag 10 mei onder meer de perfecte wedstrijd tussen titanen Real Madrid en Manchester City, de Milanese halve finale tussen AC Milan en Inter, een Barça-legende die ermee stopt en Mats Seuntjens die Waalwijk verlaat voor de Domstad!(00:00) Intro(01:22) Prachtpot tussen Real en City(12:52) Derby della Madonnina: Milan - Inter(22:24) Bye bye Busquets(27:51) Seuntjens naar FC UtrechtIn de podcast verwijzen Bruce, Wouter en Lars naar:Trailer 'One For All' documentaire over tegenslagen van de Rode Duivels op WK 2022: https://bit.ly/3BgZvd3De nieuwste aflevering van podcast De Eerste de Beste met Toine van Peperstraten: https://spoti.fi/3MfxclsZie het privacybeleid op https://art19.com/privacy en de privacyverklaring van Californië op https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

#chicago #undergroundhiphop #artist TOINE HOUSTON STOPPED BY TO TALK ABOUT #spikelee DROPPING ONE OF HER #SONGS IN HIS #netflixseries AND HOW SHE STARTED AND GOT WHERE SHE IS NOW

It all started in the Netherlands when the founding father, Joe Overgaag, passed down his legacy to his son, Toine Overgaag and brought Westerlay Orchids to Carpinteria, California. Now the original Westerlay Rose Farm has grown to 800,000 square feet on several coastal Santa Barbara properties growing over 4 million orchids a year, as sold into Trader Joes and Albertsons. Hear the fascinating inside story on Westerlay through the lens of Toine.Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/success-made-to-last-legends--4302039/support.

It all started in the Netherlands when the founding father, Joe Overgaag, passed down his legacy to his son, Toine Overgaag and brought Westerlay Orchids to Carpinteria, California. Now the original Westerlay Rose Farm has grown to 800,000 square feet on several coastal Santa Barbara properties growing over 4 million orchids a year, as sold into Trader Joes and Albertsons. Hear the fascinating inside story on Westerlay through the lens of Toine.

The flower industry has a heavy environmental footprint but some growers are changing their agricultural and shipping practices. Toine Overgaag, president of family-owned Westerlay Orchids,  grower and seller of live orchids, based in Carpenteria, Calif., joins Mitch Ratcliffe to discuss sustainable agriculture practices in the live plant industry. Westerlay uses natural predators instead of pesticides to deal with pests, energy and water management technologies, and recirculates waste exhaust CO2 to increase photosynthesis of plants.The company distributes more than four million orchids primarily through local and national supermarket chains, including Trader Joe's, Kroger and Safeway.We talk through the environmental implications of the flower-growing industry and how to improve them. Westerlay uses slow shipping, ensuring trucks are full before moving the flowers to minimize the impact of sending flowers to stores and customers. The company produced CO2eq emissions of about 2.7oz per unit sold and reported 331 tons of emissions from ocean and freight shipping in 2021. That's about the equivalent of the emissions of 23 average Americans, based on 2020 figures. Toine, whose family is Dutch, joined the MPS, a certification program for The Netherlands flower industry, which has awarded Westerlay an “A”rating each year. You can learn more about Westerlay Orchids at https://westerlay.com/

On today's episode we have our 2 guests Toine and Jalil with us. We talk about if every female got some hoe in them. We also talk about what automatically makes us not like them. We also talk about getting cheated on. We discuss our humbling moments in sports.Get 20% OFF @manscaped + Free Shipping with promo code SWANTALK20 at MANSCAPED.com! #ad #manscapedpod

INTRODUCTION: About John Follis / "LEAVING GOD” John Follis is the award-winning writer/director of the documentary "LEAVING GOD” (2017).  Winner of a Hollywood International Documentary Film award the film explores a major cultural shift happening in America -- a shift away from religion and God. Paralleling this trend it also shares John's fascinating personal story. Described as “Compelling” by the BBC, "LEAVING GOD” has been seen by over 36,000 people from 98 countries via Vimeo, YouTube, and TopDocumentaryFilms.com.     Before becoming a filmmaker John was an award-winning Madison Ave ad man who actually helped sell God. His 16-year ad campaign for New York's Marble Church received national attention via The New York Times, USAToday and TIME magazine. That story is included in the film.    INCLUDED IN THIS EPISODE (But not limited to): ·      A Documentary About People Leaving God·      Preachers Coming Out!!!·      Separation Of Church and State·      Radical Republicans·      The Ways Churches Hurt People·      Why Religious Persecution of People Is Wrong·      The Differences Between God And The Church·      Tribalism Defined·      The Importance Of Obtaining Discernment·      Catholic Shade  CONNECT WITH JOHN: Website & Film: https://topdocumentaryfilms.com/leaving-god/YouTube: https://bit.ly/3IvRjH0Facebook:   https://bit.ly/357oAuAInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/johnfollis/Twitter: https://twitter.com/JohnFollisLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnfollis/  CONNECT WITH DE'VANNON: Website: https://www.SexDrugsAndJesus.comYouTube: https://bit.ly/3daTqCMFacebook:   https://www.facebook.com/SexDrugsAndJesus/Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/sexdrugsandjesuspodcast/Twitter: https://twitter.com/TabooTopixLinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/devannonEmail: DeVannon@SexDrugsAndJesus.com  DE'VANNON'S RECOMMENDATIONS: ·      Pray Away Documentary (NETFLIX)o  https://www.netflix.com/title/81040370o  TRAILER: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tk_CqGVfxEs ·      Upwork: https://www.upwork.com·      FreeUp: https://freeup.net·      Disabled American Veterans (DAV): https://www.dav.org·      American Legion: https://www.legion.org INTERESTED IN PODCASTING OR BEING A GUEST?: ·      PodMatch is awesome! This application streamlines the process of finding guests for your show and also helps you find shows to be a guest on. The PodMatch Community is a part of this and that is where you can ask questions and get help from an entire network of people so that you save both money and time on your podcasting journey.https://podmatch.com/signup/devannon  TRANSCRIPT: [00:00:00]You're listening to the sex drugs and Jesus podcast, where we discuss whatever the fuck we want to! And yes, we can put sex and drugs and Jesus all in the same bed and still be all right at the end of the day. My name is De'Vannon and I'll be interviewing guests from every corner of this world as we dig into topics that are too risqué for the morning show, as we strive to help you understand what's really going on in your life.There is nothing off the table and we've got a lot to talk about. So let's dive right into this episode.De'Vannon: Hello? Hello. Hello. Are you beautiful people out there in the world? I am so fucking happy and excited to have you with me again. One more week today, I'm talking with a man by the name of John Follas. His man is an award winning creative director, writer, and filmmaker. Now he didn't made a documentary called leaving God.And in this film, he's talking about the ways church has hurt people in this mass Exodus of people away from Christianity and religion. [00:01:00] It's not very often. Did I hear people's story about the ways that, that they were hurt by the church? Like how I was? So this was a particularly close to home.So in this show, we're going to talk about preaches coming out and we're not talking about coming out gay honey. They coming out another way and talking about why religious persecution of people is wrong and the differences between God and the church. Take a listen, baby. Hello, John. Hey, Davanon Mr. John. Fallas welcome to the sex drugs in Jesus podcast. How are you today? I am John: awesome. Awesome. Thanks for having me on your show. De'Vannon: Thank you for stopping by and thank you for creating the film you have. Today we're gonna be talking a lot about it and the things that are in it.The title of it is leaving God. And it's a free video's out there for all to see through your YouTube channel and [00:02:00] different things like that. I'll let you tell people exactly how to find it and everything. I was impressed with how, how personal you got in the documentary because usually whenever I watch a documentary.The, the emphasis it's like the lenses turn on whatever the subject matter is, or, or whoever the, the documentary is about. But you you, I think you tow the line well in between covering the subject matter and, and talking a lot about yourself and a lot about your personal life. And that transparency is something that I, I find to be like gold.I really, really love a good transparent person. And and so I appreciate that, that willingness to, to expose yourself like that, because, you know, that's what really connects people to the story. Right. Exactly. So tell us in your own words then about this film and why on earth would you make such a.[00:03:00]John: Well, I made it because it talks about one of the most major cultural shifts currently happening in America right now, which is more and more people leaving the church, leaving religion and leaving God. So that's why I made it. I thought that's a very, I I'm, I pay attention to pop culture. I, I, I paying a attention to what's half happening in society and because my personal story was part of that cultural shift that's happening in America.It definitely related to me on a personal level, as you just mentioned in the introduction. So I mean, this is something that I had been, I, I, you know, like you, I'm interested in the big themes of life, sex money not so much drugs. Jesus, God health. You know, all those, the big themes in life are the ones I wanted to know as much [00:04:00] as possible about because the more you know about these big themes, I think the more, the better happier life you will have, you know, the more things you can figure out.Right? So I've always been intrigued by the of God. And once I was old enough to begin thinking for myself, when I'd say probably high school and college, I started pursuing my curiosity about God and trying to learn as much about who God is and how I can, you know, if he, or she, or whatever it is, is really that powerful and can be so helpful in my life.I wanted to really, you know, see what it's about. So I could work it to my benefit. Right? So this documentary really part of it talks about what I just mentioned, but the, the main catalyst was again, [00:05:00] paying attention to current events and just continuing to see more articles about churches closing and more and more people walking away from the church and religion.And I think the tipping point Devana and for me was when I started doing some research about ministers and priests who were coming out. Right. I mean, I can't think of anything more taboo than coming out as a nonbeliever. If you're a priest or a minister. Religious, you know, someone in the clergy, nothing.I can't think of anything more taboo than that. So when I did re because I, I wasn't sure that there were people like that, but I started doing some research in 2017 just to see if I could find any stories about that. And that led me to something called the clergy project, which was a project dedicated specifically [00:06:00] to people like this.People in the clergy who had changed their minds about God and religion. And didn't have a place to go to kind of talk about it, get support. So the clergy project was started, I think in 2012 or something like that, specifically as a place for these people to go, to get, get Presa ministers, clergy, people, to kind of talk about their feelings, cuz they were in a lot of pain, right.It's almost, you know, it's like being L G B T or transgender. Right. And not having a place to go and talk about that. Right. You know, if you're, if you're in a society that is not supportive of who you are as a person and what you think and how you believe you're gonna be living a very isolated life with a lot of pain and feeling afraid to talk about these things are a big part [00:07:00] of who you are and what you, how you think.So. The clergy project was really intriguing to me. And that to me, was the tipping point. The idea of these priest ministers coming out, I thought would make an interesting documentary. I didn't think my story was that unique because there's just so many people who grew up religious and through circumstances over time, change their perspective on that.There's nothing really that unique about that. But when you start talking about clergy members who spent their career as, as a priest or minister or something like that, and then suddenly, or maybe not so suddenly, but for whatever reason to they no longer believe, I thought that was a very subject that deserved to be looked at.And I thought that would at least be the start of my documentary, where it went from there. I wasn't totally sure, but that was the, that was the tipping point for me to say I've gotta try making something [00:08:00] about this, cuz this is just too interesting.De'Vannon: Hmm. Yeah. So in the, in the video and that is a very interesting point. It, it seemed like it, it, the, the part about the clergy coming out was kind of sprinkled through it. And I seemed like it got a little bit more gritty about it towards the end. And I do have a lot of questions that I want to ask about the clergy, but before I get on that, I want to kind of kinda lay a bit of framework here.So, and I wanna read like, Like a, a quote from this, or from, from about the from about the film that I thought was interesting and says that the, the fastest growing religion in the United States seems to be no religion at all. [00:09:00] A 2016 study conducted by the public religion research Institute found that a quarter of the subject survey claim, no religious affiliate and this surprising figure increased substantially among the younger generation.Now in the video, it was showing like I think it was graphs or charts about how, how, how, how younger people like at each generation less and less, less and less seemed to have any sort of religious affiliation at all. And I thought that this was so interesting because like, I'm about to be 40 this year.And my boyfriend's 25. And so. And so, so all his friends are like in between like maybe 21 and 25, you know, somewhere around in that range. And when it comes to the matters of religion and stuff like that, all of them that I know of so far are the same way. They're just kind of like, we don't do religion, you know, we just don't have that.You know, it's not what they [00:10:00] do and stuff like that. And I thought about, you know, as to why this could be, you know, you know, what example do they have to really go of, you know, look at what look at what has become of the church, you know, with the, with the preachers leaving and what, how crazy religion looks on television?You know, you got all your evangelicals and all the Republican nonsense mixed into it, you know, why do you think that that so many young people specifically like young people are not interested in religion? I think it's because of the bad example that, that they have had to look at, but what do you think.John: Don't know. I think, you know, it doesn't really matter what I think. I think it's just, you know, I, what concerns me a little bit is when I talk about this film to people and tell them the title of it, they think that I'm anti God and that this film is about my opinion [00:11:00] and my bias against God. And that's not what the film is about.I mean, you watched it. This is a documentary and I, I approached it like an investigative journalist and then talking about what's happening. Starting with these priest ministers who are now leaving the church and then talking about the statistics of the general population and then weaving my personal story into it for, you know, the second half of the film.So I mean, I'm glad to give you my opinion, but my opinion doesn't really matter. I want people to come to their own, you know, come to their own conclusions. I'm no expert, I'm no theolo, you know, theologian it doesn't, you know, why people are leaving. Everyone's got their own reasons. I just, you know, I, I think that it doesn't the, the, I would guess that the younger people are leaving more and more are leaving religion in church is because it doesn't serve them in a, in [00:12:00] a way that it serve their parents.I mean, I can just tell you from my experience, I mean, the reason. I grew up religious is because my parents this was part of their tradition. It was just a thing to do on Sunday. You went to church and if you didn't, it was a sin. So there was, you know, some, some some of that fear of God and extend there to keep you, you know, going to church on, on Sunday. One of the things I point out in the film Devana and is one of the, the, the, the reasons, many people especially people of a certain age, younger people under, under 40 has been the internet because they have more access to information. If they're, if they wanna get, get the facts on stuff, they can, they can research it.So there was an interesting graph that I showed. In the film that that the, the shift away from religion began B about 30 years ago in the early to mid nineties. And it has increased significantly [00:13:00]since then for, you know, up, up until about the, the early nineties, it was about five to 7% of people who consider themselves nonreligious. But since since that time it's gone up significantly every year. And even since I made the film in 2016, it's gone up about 5%. When I made the film, I was using a, a pew research statistic from 2016 that said it was about 24% or 25%. And just two months ago, they came out with an update on that.It's now closer to 30%. So there is a parallel between people walking away from church, religion, and God, and use of the internet. So that may be a contributing factor. De'Vannon: Right? Well, I appreciate your, your insight on that. I love the sharing of insights and opinions, you know, because it's thought provoking, it'll still get people thinking, you know, and it'll still lead them to their own, [00:14:00] to their own conclusions, but sometimes people need that little nudge.And so, so speaking more on the preachers who came out, you know, it's so interesting whenever I hear the term coming out and using a reference, that's not G B T Q I a. And so But it still, it still echoes the same vulnerability and risk of exposure and fear that can mean coming out. And so yeah, on the video, you've got these preachers going on, television preachers who had, you know, were, had, you know, pretty high up and everything like that.Now they're no longer in these religions anymore because of various reasons. You know, and then there, and one of em, I just should say one of 'em was from Louisiana. One of the guys that I profiled Jerry, I can't remember his last name, but you may recall if you watch it recently. Devana and at the end of the film, I, I took some, some a clip from a New York times [00:15:00] documentary that followed this guy around for a while.John: And He had a really hard time. I mean, it's, it's hard enough coming out anywhere as a nonbeliever, but when you're in the deep south in a small town, Louisiana, I don't have to tell you what that's like. And his wife left him his congregation, you know, naturally turned on him. He was outta work.He had to leave the state eight. He basically, he, he was like a man without a country. And I don't know what he's doing now, but he really paid the price for coming out as a nonbeliever, which is why it's so courageous, I think to do it's like, you know, now I just watched a clip on tick to talk. Talking about the the Russian propaganda machine and they showed a clip of a Russian female newscaster, just, you know, like a robotically reading the script from Putin about what's going on and right behind her, there was a, a, a woman holding [00:16:00] up a, a sign saying this is all bullshit. They're you're telling you lies, just went up.It went viral. So it takes a lot of courage. I guess I'm making a parallel sometimes to stand up for what you believe, you know, you're gonna pay the price. So I, I, I, I can't tell you how much admiration and respect I have for people who are willing to come out for what they believe when it's not popular.De'Vannon: Right. And I found the interesting that when these preachers came out, it's like they turned. Into into like atheists. It's like the, the, cause a lot of the quotes you have towards the end of the film are like kind of like, you know, atheistic in nature. So I can kind of see how some of the people you were saying in the beginning, how some people might see that you might feel like you're Antigo.I kind of was thinking that too, by the end of the film, like I wonder if he's Antigo, like, I don't know. I'm gonna ask him about that. So where exactly [00:17:00] at your point in your life, do you stand on God? And then I want to get back to, to this vibe that I was getting from the preachers in the film. Okay. So I'm not John: Antigo. And just the quotes that you're referring to were from people like mark Twain mm-hmm and George Washington and people like that who made comments. That were very quotable that basically shared their opinion about God or church mm-hmm . So again, this is nothing about this film, this opinion, those were quotes from these people.And I think there's a lot of people in America that have a belief that this that our forefathers wrote the constitution based on a Christian perspective. And some of the quotes, I some of the people that I quote are from the founding fathers [00:18:00] kind of contradict that, that theory. So, and again, you can look up, you can research everything that I have in the movie. Is you is, is true. And you, you could, you could research it yourself, but I just thought it would be interesting to just share the perspective of some, some famous people who had perspectives on what I just talked about in the film about God and religion mm-hmm and, and church. So yeah, so I, I'm not Antigo, I don't really care what people believe as long as it doesn't mess with my life.You know what I'm saying? As long as they don't tell me that I've gotta, you know, I think the problem start, the problem I start having with, with religion is when it gets political, I, I really, you know, talking about our forefathers, anyone knows, who knows anything about the constitution knows that there's, there's a division between church and state John Adams, when he [00:19:00] wrote and, and Thomas Jefferson, when they constructed.The declaration of independence in the constitution were very clear about that. They wanted to make sure that unlike things in England and other countries, they didn't didn't want politics and, and religion to to cross pollinate. They wanted to have a definite separation between church and religion.They didn't wanna have any ministers telling people to be involved with people's rights as human beings and, and the things that they put in the, in the, the constitution. So what's happening is that, especially in the, in the Republican party they have crossed that line many times. I mean, I think religion has become a big part for many politicians, especially in the Republican party and the constitution and the declaration of independence [00:20:00] is very clear about keeping that separate De'Vannon: too true, too true.I say that all the time, but you know, here we are. So what, what, what interested me the else about the preachers in your film? It's like they went from being all about God and in the church and whenever whatever happened, it caused them to be done with that. Like, one of them was preaching like. Like kind of like, you don't need Donna.There is no, like you don't need, there is no divine power out there. You already have all, all the power that you need within you. So it's, it was like he abandoned all concepts of God all together and then he switched gears. And so, and it reminded me of how I felt when I got kicked out of Lakewood church in Houston, Texas, you know, for not being straight.And, and I, and I took a very negative reaction to that. And then I stopped associating with God and I never got to a point where I was like, he doesn't exist, but I stopped going to [00:21:00] church and everything like that because of the hurt that I received there. And so, which was, which was an immature to, for me to do, I shouldn't have done that.I should have, you know, I taken a more positive approach to that. Got some counseling, went to a gay affirming church and not let what happened at Lakewood cause me to stop, you know, my faith all together. Are John: you or at Lakewood? Is that Joel Stein, right? Oh, wow. Okay. De'Vannon: So and so and so I have a blog about that on my website and I go into detail and in my memoir, but you know, I wasn't, you know, I'm not straight.And I was, you know, singing the adult choir. I was teaching the kids ministry worship leading in the kids ministry. And I applied for a job there. They went look up, looked up my social media on MySpace page as a part of their application process, cuz the, the 2, 2, 2 or three years that I've volunteered there four or five, you know, at least what 1, 2, 4 days a week at the church, wasn't enough to vouch for my, my work ethic.[00:22:00] They needed to go ask my space as well. And so while, while they were looking, they saw that I was hanging out in S which is the gay district in Houston. And I had a really RA photo on my cover. So because of that, they fired me from all the aspects of ministry and everything like that. And so. And so that's John: how they, so what did they, did they give you a reason for that to van on when they fired you?Did they tell you, why did they say, you know, we don't like gay people. De'Vannon: She said that you can't be doing that hanging out there with them. Ah John: so did you ask her to be more,go there with them. I love that. De'Vannon: so it was on me because I shouldn't have lied on the application. When I filled out the application, the volunteer in the kids ministry, they had on their straight up, like, we don't want gay people were being around our children [00:23:00] and you know, the mind that I have now, really, they actually John: had that.Yes, that was on in, in writing. In writing. Yes. And this is Joel Olsteen's church saying we don't want, hold on a second.We don't the, we don't want gay people hanging around our children, correct. With Joel Olstein church. Okay. De'Vannon: And so, okay, John: go ahead. I wonder what he, I wonder what he would say if he was interviewed about that and confronted with that on their application. I wonder how he would answer that you should get him on your show. Davanonhe would make a great kiss for you. De'Vannon: I don't know what I would ever say if I was face to face with him, but, you know, I don't know how good it would go. I need to, I need to mature my war before that day comes. So, but I thought, John: I thought they're [00:24:00] supposed to love everyone. De'Vannon: You know, churches are not like that.You know, they are, they have an agenda. Every church has an agenda. Tell me about it. And you know, but for all, and it's not just. And that sort of stuff happens at all kinds of churches. The Hillsong church in Australia, which are very good friends with Lakewood church have the same policy. And they're very bold about it.They're like no gay people can be on staff or volunteer here. They said it countless times. They don't give a fuck. So, and but you know, the mind that I have now, if I ever come across that on an application or something, then I know that that's simply not the organization for me to be at, but I had just got out of the military serving during don't ask don't tell.And so I was conditioned to function in an environment where I couldn't fully be myself. So I just thought it was another Don as don't tell situation. I've had some PE, some legal friends of mine tell me that it's not legal for a church to do that. I didn't even know that it even much gotten to the realm of illegality.You know, I just was like, well, [00:25:00] I wanna volunteer. I'm not trying to like, fuck any children or anything like that. So. That's, you know, and especially with the litany of paperwork, you know, they do like full background checks and every damn thing on new social security numbers, you know, and everything just to volunteer.It's not like, it's not like I'm gonna give them all of that information on me, how to find me and everything to go in there and commit a crime. It's like the dumbest thing John: did you van, and I'm curious is because I don't know if it's legal or not, but I would wonder about that. Did you ever do any research on that or speak to any legal authorities to find out if that's De'Vannon: true?No. And even because by the time I got done with all of my nervous breakdown and everything that that helped to contribute to we're talking a good10 years after, so whatever statute of limitations, I was sure it would've been pass that, but it would never hurt to look into cuz I didn't, I think the person who I was talking to said it gets into the realm of like discrimination or something like that. [00:26:00] And so, which made sense when they said it, but I was so.Fucked up in my head whenever they fired me from volunteering that I, that I couldn't, I couldn't even much, I didn't think I was just like, okay, well fuck them. And so, but, but the preacher in the film reminded me of that because when he was talking about how he doesn't really believe in God anymore, we don't.And you know, it sounded to me like he was coming from like a place of pain and it sounded like he was still hurting from that. And it really reminded me of how I was back then. And I wonder, you know, in the future, once he's healed, you know, if all of that, if he would still be like, you know, anti, he was very more like, like anti guy.And he was saying like, there's nothing Toine, you know? And so, so I, I, so I wanna encourage people, you know, Not to conflate church and God, you know, those are two separate things, religion, and [00:27:00] God are two separate things. And the confusion that I had when I got kicked outta Lakewood was I didn't separate the two.And so when the church rejected me, I took that as though God had rejected me and I allowed that to it cause a rift where there should not have been a rift, you know? And I feel like, well, they're John: pretty, you have to admit, they're pretty connected. religion and God. Right. De'Vannon: Well, when I say religion, I mean denominations like denominations churches, the physical manifestation of what God is supposed to be, they are connected.But at the same time, it's like, they're not, it's like when two people are married, they're connected and they do become one in many ways. But at the same time, they're very much still individuals and, and everything that a preacher says is not. The divine voice of God. And every decision at a church makes is not the divine will of God.And so we gotta learn how to put them together when they are together, but how to separate them when they need to be separated. [00:28:00] Cuz they're not always in tandem. John: So divine and I'm gonna make a suggestion to you. I, I it sounds like you're not ready to have, have Joel Olstein as a guest on your show, but here's someone that you might, you might be open to because while you were talking about refr referencing that, that minister in my film, I just remembered the guy's name.And he is, he is the guy from Louisiana. His name is Jerry Dewitt, D E w I T T. So if he's written a couple of books he's had a podcast. So if you pop him into Google I think he will find him. Jerry that's J Jerry with a J E R R Y D E w I T T. And you could, you could invite him on your show and ask him these questions yourself.He might, you know, since you're a Louisiana boy and, and he is too he might, he might be to be on your guest mm-hmm [00:29:00] and, you know, talk to a homeboy De'Vannon: I'll reach out. You never know what could be. It would be great. Yeah. To talk to someone who used to be in clergy who left. Yeah. You know, I'm coming from a, from a volunteer perspective, he's coming from a, from aler clergy's per perspective.That could be pretty kick ass. Yeah. So, John: so, so like I said, I don't, you know, I, I, I kind of, I get off on a tangent there, but you know, as far as my feelings about. Being against God. Again, I, I don't this is a free country. People are free to be who they are and believe in what they want to, as long as it doesn't mess with my life.And the only way someone's belief in a particular religion or God would mess with my life is it's that starts getting involved with politics. For example, if I was a woman and I believed in abortion and I had some [00:30:00] co you know, ultra conservative or evangelical Congress, people who were trying to overturn Roe versus the, the, he weighed, then I would probably have a problem with that.Do you know what I'm saying De'Vannon: as do I, and you know, the crazy thing about it is the whole concept of what God is. It's subjective. Everybody's gonna have a different opinion about that. How to interpret scripture as subjective. Everybody's gonna have a different opinion about that. You know, there's, there's precedent in the Bible about why it's not a good idea to try to establish laws against people based on your personal beliefs.And that is, that is the main takeaway that I get from the convert version story of SA, because what did Saul do before he became Paul? He was a big person in the San Hedron. The San Hedron was a part of the religious people who governed, you know, over there in the middle east. He went to them, got permission to go and [00:31:00] persecute people who were not living according to his opinion of how they should.That's exactly what it was. I believe in this. They're not living how I think they should. So I'm gonna go make them do it. That was his whole point of going to Damascus and Jesus knocks him off his horse, the blinding light, the whole story. We know how it goes. And Jesus is like, yo dude, cut this shit out.This is not how I want you to go about it. And that's exactly what Republicans are doing when they say, Hey, we think those people over there should live a different way. Let's go make some laws to force 'em it's the same thing. But when they read through the Bible, they're not reading about it on how to improve themselves.They're reading. If they read it at all, you know, is about how to change other people. And when I was in seminary, before I left seminary, one of the reasons I left seminary was cuz one of the professors was just like, yeah, we want to control people in churches. And he said this as, just as just like the sky is [00:32:00] blue.And I was like, what the fuck are you talking about? so, and John: he actually said he wants to control people. Yes. He was at the law, profess least he was on, at least he was honest about De'Vannon: it. At least he was honest, but I was, but it wasn't just him, but all the classmates were nodding in agreement. Like they didn't have a problem with what this man was saying.And so he was like, and he was coming from a Baptist background if I recall correctly. And, and I was just like, no, we would not be controlling people. it's not what this is about. But, but the Republican culture and everything like that is so much about control, which I believe stems from insecurities and fear within people cuz confident, happy.People don't go about the business of trying to make life miserable for other people. , you know, it's just not what we do. We're too busy being happy. so, right, right. John: And so, well, they think they're on a mission. This is what, what the problem I have with religion and ultra religious people is because [00:33:00] they feel like they're on a mission from God and they're doing in God's will it's the same motive behind the, do you know, have you heard of the crusades?Do you know what the crusades were about? Are you to history? Yes. Okay. Do you know, do you know what the crusades De'Vannon: are about? Yeah. That's getting into the church, like prosecuting people and I think like heritage fix, you know, and maybe John: like the crusades, the crusades were A mission done. I think they were done in the, in the 10 or 11 hundreds that were initiated by a couple of popes during that time period where they felt that they were on a mission from God to convert the people who were not Christians and sent all their troops kind of, kind of like what Putin is doing to Ukraine. These guys did to the middle east, they got all their, their armies and their weapons, and they went on a mission from God, their, on their, on their [00:34:00] shirts, the van, their would be these big red crosses. They, they that's how they identified themselves. These big, giant red crosses. They were, they were so Christian soldiers and they got these huge forces and they marched into the middle east.And they just started slaughtering people because it was easy for them to do because when you, when you look at people who don't think the way you do or look the way you do, it's easy to minimize them. Right. And it's easier to to do bad stuff to them because you think that they're less right? They're, they're, Heins, they're nonbelievers, so it's an easy excuse to kill them.And, and that's what the, the crusades were about. They were doing. They totally believe they were on a mission from God. And in God's name, just murdered. Tens of thousands of people. I mean, look it up. It's pretty, pretty scary. De'Vannon: Yeah. I do have [00:35:00] that I wrote a blog about that and I have a, a link and they called it like, I think like the inquisition and I think they labeled people as like heretics and I think there was like a, that's John: a different that's that's, that's similar, but different.Okay. Similar that is different than the crusades. Okay. But same idea. You know, going after people that don't think a certain way, that's, that's the, the common thread between the two. De'Vannon: That makes sense. But, but John: I, you know, I'm making a parallel, you mentioned the Republicans and again, the parallel that they believe that many of them are evangelical.And if I, if I'm, if I'm Understand it correctly is that the whole idea is that you've gotta basically convert everyone to think the way you do evangelize. That's the whole premise of E even I can't even say evangelism to, to, you know, go out and witness and change [00:36:00] people and convert people. And to your minister's point, control people, you know, that's not uncommon that he was evangelical.You said, and that's what he said to you. And that that's what many evangelicals believe they might not be. So honest about it. You know, Joel may not admit that that's what he is looking to do. That you've gotta be a certain way. You've gotta look a certain way. You've gotta have a certain sexuality.You've gotta conform to their version of the Bible. And if you don't off with your head, That, De'Vannon: that mentality seemed to kind of like prevail because when they fired me, they let me know that I wasn't the first one, they were like, we do this all the time. , you know, you know, the, they did offer, you should have John: been wearing a wire.You should have been wearing a wire. So you had that on, on, on all De'Vannon: audio. Well, you know, this is back like. Gosh, [00:37:00] and maybe like 2008, 2009. So the concept of everything being recorded and being so available, I think we may have just been converting from flip phones and shit, you know, and pages, you know, technology.Wasn't like, you know, everything, wasn't like, Ooh, I got you on camera. You know? Yeah, no, no, I'm John: just I and De'Vannon: facetious. But I've thought about that before, like how great it would be if I, if I could, if I would've had that recorded, you know, and stuff like that. But I had no idea that that's what they would've done.Cause I thought maybe I was gonna actually be getting hired or something, but instead, instead I got fired. Well you, when you saw, when you watched my doc, I I had a somewhat similar situation where I received a letter from the church saying don't come to Bible study anymore. Remember that part in the film.Right. Right. Because you cause you, you y'all had an interesting thing going on where you had a singles ministry at this church now we're in New York city and it was like the marble something collegiate marble [00:38:00] collegiate church. And the singles group was twenties and thirties. You were in your forties and they had a real strict thing about that.So they would, as you say, in the film, tap people on the shoulder in a way and tell them, Hey, you're too old. So stop coming here. And John: so what was, well, it wasn't, it wasn't let me just interrupt you. It wasn't real strict. Because we're talking about as an experience in the film or part in the film.I talk about experience. I had, where I was kind of dragged into a Bible study. I really wasn't interested in going, but someone dragged me into this thing. It was after the, the Sunday sermon and there were probably 40 people in there and there were quite a few people in there that were over 40. I looked around and I was not the, I was maybe 45, 46 at the time. So I I was reluctant to go because I thought it was strict. I thought, you know, you get carted at the door to make sure you're, you're under 40, which you know, is kind of silly when you think of a church, both about how inclusive they are [00:39:00] to restrict a Bible study to people of a certain age. I don't really understand the logic behind that, but I certainly was not the only one who was over 40. And, and even though that's the reason that they gave me in the letter that I shouldn't continue going the real reason is I suspect something that was quite different that I mentioned in the film. De'Vannon: Right? Because you challenged the the preacher, he asked the question. And then your, he asked if anyone had any questions during this Bible study and your question was something like, what is truth?Oh, no, your question was, is it true? Correct. And then he was silent. He really couldn't say much. And then you said something to kind of help him out of the rabbit hole that, that he found him. And then he said something like, truth is objective or like, what is truth? Right. John: Which was a pretty lame answer.As far as I was concerned. well, churches do, but, but it [00:40:00] was, it was shortly thereafter that I received a letter saying we really value you as person and don't come to Bible study anymore. You're too old. De'Vannon: Right, but in the video, you know, and that sucks that that happened to you. But in the video you said that, that, that, that did happen to other people.And then you observed that those people not only stopped going to the group, but they stopped going to the church as well. And I, I, and I, and that's a very, I thought that was very interesting point because sometimes when I tell people say I got kicked out of lake, it, they go that they tell you, you can't come back.And then I have to make it clear. When you kick a person out of one, part of a church, you kick them out of the whole church because it makes it very fucking awkward. When you try to go back there, it feels weird. It feels, I don't even have a word for it. It feels alien. Suddenly you just don't, it feels like a whole different world.When someone's told you that you, [00:41:00] for being who you are being the age or who you choose to love how old you are or whatever physical characteristic you have or something that. You really can't help. We don't want you here. John: well, it makes you feel like you're not fully accepted, De'Vannon: right? So you don't have to say bitch, leave the whole church and don't come back.You know, just telling someone to get out of any part of it, because a church is, is not supposed to be like that. You can't like everyone come on in, the doors are open, but we only want certain, certain of you in certain portions of the church, you know, that just doesn't work that way. Well, what John: I, what I, what I've discovered dev van en sounds like you've discovered it as well, is what churches say and what they do are often very different things.De'Vannon: This is true. And a big part of my ministry, my calling, whatever you want to refer to it as is to get people to a point where [00:42:00] they can. See, what, what is real and what is fake and understand, like you say, in your video, that just because someone's a preacher doesn't mean that they are right, or that they're gonna be right all the time.They're just human. And and so, so we gotta take these preachers and pastors off of these pedestals, we gotta take these churches off of these pedestals. Now, you know, a word came up called, try that somebody in your film said, and I thought that that was very interesting. And he said that our tribal instincts can override our rational thought of a writer.One once upon a time said, no, man is an island. Okay. Because we have this innate sense to, to congregate. Be it gangs to be it in a church. Be it. And the military, you know, this, this, this there's this group, you know, we need each other. And so we are always gonna find some kind of way. When I got kicked outta church, I replaced the church group with the, with the nightlife.And then I began to dive deeper into like the clubs and stuff like that. And that's ultimately how I became a [00:43:00] drug dealer. And I didn't know it then, but we're gonna always and seek out communities some kind of way, because that's just how we're designed. And then in the case of, and then we let our need for community override our rational.So we'll stay at the church and listen to the preacher and try to be involved. Even though we've seen things that we know don't make sense, you know, and we rationalize it a way.Which ain't good. You know, if we see something and it doesn't make sense, then that should be addressed. If if the priest are abusing the altar boys or different people, we can't just sweep it under the rug and rationalize it away and go, oh, I'll just stay right. John: Well, it's almost like being in a bad marriage, right?You're you're in a marriage and you get used to it. I, and the longer you're in it, the more you're willing to accept bad behavior because you're kind of used to it. And you kind of you rationalize that while there's a lot of good [00:44:00] in it. Because it's hard to walk away. I mean, a church for many people and certainly was with me was a very big part of my life.Mm-hmm so it's easy to rationalize. Well, it's not perfect. And no church, what church is perfect. Right? And it's, you know, it's a very, and listen, I don't fault people for thinking that way to each his own, you know, they're right. Nothing is totally perfect. The church that I went to in New York, wasn't perfect.But the reason I stayed involved with it as long as I did is be because of tribalism, I, I looked forward to seeing my friends every Sunday. Sometimes I would just skip the sermon and I'd go straight to the coffee hour, just so I could hang out with my friends. That was very, very, a big, important part of my life in New York city that I valued.But once I got over were 40 and was not so welcome in the, in the singles group, they really didn't have a singles group for I'm trying to think. Oh yeah, they [00:45:00] did have a singles group for people. Over 40 and everyone was 70. So I remember Dick dip dipping my toe in there when I was like 42. And the next youngest person to me was like 63.So I did not feel like trying to ingratiate myself to a new group with people were you know, 10, 15, 20 years older than me, especially when I'd been just part of a group for the past 15 years of people, many, many people just, you know, a couple of years younger than me. So I didn't really, I, I didn't like the fact that they had a hard cutoff at 40, you know, I, I, I just thought that didn't make a whole lot of sense.Like, what are they trying to tell you that if you're not married by the time you're 40, you're a loser, you know, which is kind of what they were saying. At least that's a message. That's how I interpreted. De'Vannon: In, in other churches, Lakewood and other churches too. Have, [00:46:00] you know, the, the groups divided by ages, I think just either have a singles fucking group or don't have one regardless of the age, because a 20 year old, a 20 year old may be attracted to a 60 year old.You know, the very concept of that is trying to act like is trying to force people into a certain age range. That's very presumptuous. John: Yeah. And, you know, listen, it, it it really hurt a lot of people. I mean, I was just a little perturbed by it, but there are a lot of women very attractive, smart career women in New York city, right.Who spend most of their twenties and thirties focusing on their career, which is very much the case of the kind of women you meet in New York city. So, you know, here they are Approaching 40. Right. And now suddenly they're thinking, gee I, I, I do I wanna have a family? Do I wanna switch gears here? I'm still single. But at least church is a big part of my life. And then having a, being, having them [00:47:00] get tapped on the shoulder saying us, sorry, you're out of this group. I mean, that was a pretty big deal for a lot of those women who were really, really hurt by the fact that they were no longer welcome.Welcome in this single group is hard enough for anyone to turn 40. You're gonna be turning 40, but especially at think in our society for women. I don't think, you know, our society is rarely friendly to women that you know, of a certain age, older women. So that's a pretty big birthday for many women.And on top of dealing with that on an emotional, psychological level to have your church saying sorry we, you really can't come to this group anymore group that they may have been a part of for 5, 10, 15 years, where all their friends were to get, you know, tapped outta that group. That makes no sense to me, especially coming from a church that on their website says how inclusive [00:48:00] they are and welcoming they are to everyone.De'Vannon: Yeah. And then it just, its a certain type of.That I just, it just can't be described because you think about the money that you've given to the church and the time you spent volunteering and stuff like that, it does feel like a marriage or some sort of relationship and to be dismissed from it, for any for, and unless you've done something bad against the church and like stolen their money or actually done something, then maybe they could say something, but they still shouldn't dismiss you.It feels like a bad breakup. And John: for me it means bad. It's bad business. I have to say, you know, from a business perspective, listen, every, every church is paying attention to their finances. Right? So the last thing you want to do is do something that's going to Get people to leave your church, especially when you're in your early forties, [00:49:00] in New York city, you're in your prime earning years.And this is what I mentioned in the film. Why would you wanna do something that upsets someone enough that they're gonna walk away from, from the church and stop giving their charitable contributions? I mean, the church, their lifeblood are, is charitable contributions. So, you know, loosen up a little bit with your, with your rules on Bible studies.You know, I mean, gimme a freaking break here and stop scaring people away or not scaring people away, but push people away with a stupid rule. Like, you know, an age thing. It just, it just made no sense to me. And when I brought that to the attention of the minister minister, who I knew was interested.In keeping people coming to the church because he hired me to do an ad campaign to attract more people. So I knew he was very concerned about attracting and keeping people to, to [00:50:00] the church. I didn't understand why he just kind of dismissed the fact that that people were leaving the church because they felt as you said, you kick 'em outta one group.They're not gonna feel welcome. If that's the main connection to the church, there's a good chance that they're gonna stop coming to that church. If they can't continue going to that group where all their friends are,De'Vannon: these are decisions that people make when they're not accustomed to being rejected or being told they can't come places.So, you know, people. You would hope to not to get that same sort of behavior from people who are, have been the victim of discrimination and all kinds of prejudice throughout life, but people who have always been accepted will never get why, why, why do they, why, why did they just leave? You know, we only kicked them outta one part.We don't see what the big is. That's right. That's right. So right. But you know, when I think about preachers like that, I hope and pray that they [00:51:00] didn't start out with cold hearts. You know, you know, my, my spiritual leader told me that, you know, a preacher is either gonna be really, really strong or really, really weak.And that, that, that there's no in between. And so it, to me, like maybe these preachers start out with the best of intentions, but in the process of time, as the congregation grows, as the money grows, you know, or something like that, maybe their, maybe their motives get corrupt, but, and they don't even realize that it's happening, cuz it happens so gradually. You know, maybe it is all at once, but there's not much we can do about that, but I want church people and people who still look up the preachers and listen at what they say to become, to have a greater level of scrutiny that they, than what they have now to actually judge what the preachers saying and not just accept that it's fact.And if some foolishness shows up, then the whole, their priest you're accountable, they don't get to get away with things and, you know, and, you know, and, and things matter like that. [00:52:00] Right. You a quote that you had in here, which stuck out in my nogging a concerning your, your marriage, you know, you, you know, you, your divorced man, and you talk about that.In the film. You said, if I had to pick a moment, when my attitude about God began to sour, this would be it you're talking about a woman that you had met in church. I think it may have been in the singles group that I'm not sure. Yeah, but like it, wasn't the singles group, you in church, everything's going great.All the boxes are checked, but a few weeks later there's trouble. You, you said you felt betrayed by her in, by God. John: So for your listeners I'll do a little ex explaining here in the film. I talk about a woman. I met at church in the singles group that I got married to. And the quote that Devana just referred to was [00:53:00] the quote that I said in the film that Happened the day I got married in the church that if there was a time that my attitude about church and God began to sour this would be it the day that I got married at the church.And the reason I said that, and as I share in the film is that despite the fact that I met this woman in church, and I thought the marriage was ordained by God. Our marriage went downhill immediately. I mean, immediately it was a crash and burn that could never have predicted, and I didn't understand it. It like, it was like my wife had become turned into a different person. Immediately after we got married, I didn't understand what was going on. It seemed pretty clear that even though she gave me an ultimatum, it's kind of ironic because I wasn't so [00:54:00] sure about getting married and it took her giving me an ultimatum to make the decision to get married. And, but once I made that decision, I was, I was committed. But my wife's attitude seemed not, seemed, definitely changed immediately after we got married. And I was blindsided by it and I couldn't in it because as I said, I thought this marriage and this relationship was ordained by God.So it really challenged. My beliefs in God, when the marriage started going downhill and we were in marriage counseling and I was impersonal, we were in personal counseling, but she got involved with another guy. And didn't seem that interested in getting back with me. So, so it didn't really matter how much I tried, if I'm with a partner who is not exhibiting behavior to support the idea of [00:55:00]being in a marriage anymore. And we went through, we were separated for almost three years, so I was not willing to give up on the marriage, even after I found out that she had been involved with another guy, I was willing to continue to work on the marriage and try to get it back on track. She did not seem to have that similar perspective.And so that kind of changed my attitude about things being ordained by God. And that's when I began questioning the whole idea of God and all that stuff. Why? But I thought our marriage was based on that. Why De'Vannon: did you think it was ordained by God? What did God did God tell you something that he speak to you in some way to make you believe?John: Well, first of all, I met the woman in church, so that's a good start, right? When you meet someone in church, you think, okay, maybe God has something to do with bringing us together because it is God's house, right? [00:56:00] That's what church is supposed to big God's De'Vannon: house. I'll say that that's an assumption that a lot of us make.And I used to be that way when I attended churches and I was in singles groups too. And that that's a pitfall. I wanna warn people right now, not to get into, as you walk through life with God and you gain spiritual understanding, don't go put God's mouth on things. You know, if he didn't speak, just cuz you're in church and you meet some woman or some dude or whatever.That don't mean automatically that you should run off and marry them as they say, not everyone in church is saved, you know, and not, not everything, not everything that happens under his roof is ordained by him. But see, we get caught up in our emotions and stuff like that. And then, and then, and the stuff the preachers are telling us, and then we, sometimes we wanna say that that's the voice of, of God when God didn't actually speak.And so, so basically you're saying y'all met in church. All the, the boxes are being checked. This looks like it would be of God, but God didn't necessarily speak to you personally. [00:57:00] Well, John: I thought I had a supernatural experience to Von. Okay. In addition to what I just said beyond the fact that we met in church and our relationship blossomed at church events and retreats that we attended together, but there was one experience that I, I was, I had convinced myself was a supernatural met that I received from God.And that was when we were sitting in church one Sunday morning. And as the minister was preaching about something to do with God's love and bringing people together, whatever he was talking about at the moment he was talking about God's love and loving people. I felt myself. Bathed in light and brightness.And the reason I felt that way is because there was a beam of light that was coming through one of the stain glass windows and was shining directly on me and my [00:58:00] girlfriend at the time. So it was a very, very directed beam of light that was just hitting the, the window at a certain way. That for at least maybe a minute or two was illuminating, the two of us.And I said, oh my God, this is the sign. Because I at the am, we had been going out for a while and I think she had been kind of hinting at getting married. And I, I still had some doubts about whether or not this was something I, I was ready to do. So when that experience happened to me, I thought it was a sign by a sign from God.De'Vannon: Do you still think it was? No. So if it wasn't a sign from God, do you think maybe you kinda like ma made it up or just, just, this is what you believe, what you were wrong. John: Listen, when you, when you're, when you're indoctrinated into religious thought, right. It's easier for [00:59:00] you to justify natural things as supernatural De'Vannon: Uhhuh.yeah, that does happen too. So we, so we wanna avoid that. We wanna gain discernment. We wanna always be praying for discernment so we can see the truth of things. And but you know, to me, like, You know, with her, you know, seeing the other guy she's actually having sex with him, she's become an adultist, you know, at this point, you know, you know, was she that, you know of, you said she was seeing the other guy, do you know she was sleeping with him?Yes. Cuz I asked her. Okay. And so that's according to G she and John: she, and she admitted it. De'Vannon: Oh, she was a bold bitch, you know? And according to Jesus' teachings, you know, the only reason that people can lawfully get divorces in the case of infidelity. So it's almost like God was giving you a way out through this, whether you wanted to take it, you know, or not, at least the door was [01:00:00] open to, to the divorce legally, this, this brings me to another issue I take with people who take issue with people, meaning like you're.Straight people, quote, unquote, your Republicans and everything like that. And these preachers who are on like their fifth marriage and shit who get divorced all the time, for reasons other than infidelity, but in the Bible, you know, Jesus said, if you get divorced for any reason, other than infidelity, then that's wrong.And this voice he's concerned that you're still married. Yet. We find in churches all across the land that people in, all these unions have been divorced, but it was not for infidelity. And somehow it's perfectly okay. And then they continue on preaching against gay people and women who won get, get, get abortions and everything like that.But they don't really preach too much about how you're supposed to stay married unless it's for infidelity. So that's one of my pet peeves that I have now. I don't go around judging people who were divorced for reasons other than infidelity. Cuz I don't care. [01:01:00] Cuz like you said, what, what they're doing and who they're fucking don't affect me.But since they wanna have problems with other people, you know, I bring it up because there's they're because they're hypocrites. Now you, during this time you went to go see a, a preacher, a priest or whatever, cuz he is, this is a Catholic church, right? Not a Catholic church. Okay. No, no. This is a preacher. And and he told you to stay married. He's like divorce is not the way, but then later on he would get like, I think two divorces or something like that.And I don't think he was removed from that post from being a preacher. And so how did that make? He was, John: he was the, he was the head minister of the church that I'd been going to for 15 years. De'Vannon: Okay. He was a head minister. He told you not to get divorced later on. He gets a divorce twice, twice. How did that, how did that make you feel?John: Well, what do you think?De'Vannon: I might have said some John: exploitation. The, the H I, you, I think you [01:02:00] said it earlier, it's the H word hypot. Yeah. I mean, I, I, I can't think of anything more hypocritical than someone telling you, you shouldn't get divorced and then they get divorced, not once, but twice.I mean, that's the definition of hypocritical and it extends De'Vannon: beyond that because he didn't get removed from that position. I mean, us, both of those wives cheated on him and he had the lawful way out, but yet they're removing people for being two years over the age limit. You know, in, in the singles John: group?Well, I wasn't removed just to be clear the van and I wasn't removed from church. I just got a letter saying, please don't come to this group anymore. De'Vannon: all right. That makes it so much more palatable. John: I wanna be clear. I don't wanna, I don't wanna unfairly you know, trust the church. I still have the letter by the way.So, De'Vannon: but people I've talked. I talked to [01:03:00] someone before who got divorced and they removed him from his volunteer positions in church. So it's very interesting, you know, but you know, those, those double standards get applied everywhere you go. When I was in the middle was the same way. Somebody who was like to say is their first year in the air force.If they got a DUI, they get kicked out. If they were got, if they were caught drinking underage. But if they, someone who had been in there 20 years did the same thing. They wouldn't be treated as harshly, you know, The standards, they just don't seem to apply when you get higher up in organizations. Mm-hmm so the last thing I wanna talk about before we wrap this up is a little bit about Catholicism.I love to throw, throw shade at the Catholic church because I don't, I, I really, I have, I have no disrespect for Catholic people. I just think that is one huge mind. Fuck. And I cannot understand [01:04:00] where they come up with all of these damn rules and shit that have nothing to do with the Bible. And I guess the popes made it up or someone who's supposed to be holy made it up.And then therefore it is believed by people, but the, the billions of people who make up the Catholic church and give the church it's power and things like that. And I just don't see what they're getting. In return. The Bible tells us not to pray to angels and to anyone, but God, and they're praying all these saints, there's all these dead people.There's all these robes and all this kneeling. When I, when I went one time and I was like, am I sucking Dick in the sanctuary today? Or what is going on? Why am on, on my knee? well, of my needs were half the John: service. Well, hopefully you weren't doing that in church, Savannah. It De'Vannon: would've made it worth it . If, if, if, while I was down there, one time someone had stuck something in my mouth.So I'm gonna quote you again. You had some interesting one [01:05:00] liners, John: if you have, well, there might have been a few priests that would be happy De'Vannon: to accommodate you. I think I would've been too old for them at the right age. I think I might have been in my twenties and you know, and then the right age of 21, you know, they seem much too old for them.And so, you know, you never know. So you sad in here. I don't know if you have any books, man, but if not, I think you should write one. Cause you have some interesting one-liners in their, in this film. So referring to Catholic sex, sex education, you said to get a basic sex education, you need to be taught by people who had sex, who actually had sex, who actually had sex.So you were talking about getting sex education from like these crazy ass looking nuns and stuff like that. So just tell us, as we begin to wrap up about your Catholic experience and what you think of the Catholic church. John: So in the film I talk about going to parochial school, junior high school which was [01:06:00]13, 14, 15 years old.And one of the required courses was weekly courses was a course in religion and they kind of cross pollinated religion and sex education with, I guess, you know, they could only hire so many teachers and I guess they couldn't have a dedicated teacher teaching sex education and a Catholic school.So the, the teacher was teaching religion integrated some what, what they considered sex education. I would say sex lack of education would be a better way to phrase it. And one of the things they I was told at the age of 13 was that I'm, I'm trying to remember cuz it was quite a while ago, but the clear message I got was that you really should not be having sexual thoughts in your head.And if you do or do it too much, or don't turn your brain off immediately, once that sex sexual [01:07:00] thought pops in your head, if you don't immediately shut that down, you're walking on thin, thin ice with Jesus and, and you, you don't wanna, you don't wanna sin in against Jesus now, do you? So that was kind of the message I got is that it would be a, a sin or could be a sin against Jesus.If you don't shut down really quickly, any sexual thought about you know, my case, naked women or naked girls that, that pop into your head, you, which is a pretty big mind fuck to tell a 13 year old kid. And I have to tell you when you're, whe