Convo on the Verge

One of the wisest pieces of advice I've gotten is that success is about knocking on as many doors as possible. As in: If you aren't wanted in one place, try another. And while a place might be a particular company or theatre or agency - it can also be a city or even a country. But how do you know it's time to seek greener pastures? And how should you prepare for the journey?Music composed, recorded and produced by Silvia BerroneCover art by Kateřina KrejcarováTo leave a rating for this podcast, follow the instructions for whichever podcast app you are using. Transcript and sources for this episode: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2025/03/03/episode9/Newsletter: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/newsletter/Leave response (can be anonymous): https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/message-box/Community: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/community/Sponsor an artist: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/sponsor-an-artist/Website: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/Instagram: @ema_katrovas_podcast

Ah, networking…not to be confused with the network effect, though perhaps there are some similarities. Let's examine the ever-befuddling Human Element of the arts, and how to keep your soul intact while navigating it.Music composed, recorded and produced by Silvia BerroneCover art by Kateřina KrejcarováTo leave a rating for this podcast, follow the instructions for whichever podcast app you are using. Transcript and sources for this episode: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2025/02/24/episode8/Newsletter: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/newsletter/Leave response (can be anonymous): https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/message-box/Community: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/community/Sponsor an artist: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/sponsor-an-artist/Website: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/Instagram: @⁠ema_katrovas_podcast

Writers throw away drafts, painters paint over botched canvases. But where can classically-trained performers try and fail and try again?Music composed, recorded and produced by Silvia BerroneCover art by Kateřina KrejcarováTo leave a rating for this podcast, follow the instructions for whichever podcast app you are using. Transcript and sources for this episode: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2025/02/17/episode7/Newsletter: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/newsletter/Leave response (can be anonymous): https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/message-box/Community: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/community/Sponsor an artist: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/sponsor-an-artist/Website: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/Instagram: @ema_katrovas_podcast

I got some feedback on Classically (Un)Trained over the time I was on break and I need to address it. The issue: This podcast is too pessimistic! Before proceeding with the rest of the season, I'd like to make the case for why I'm actually wildly optimistic.I'm also going to talk about how Classically (Un)Trained is the right THING but might be in the wrong MEDIUM.Music composed, recorded and produced by Silvia BerroneCover art by Kateřina KrejcarováTo leave a rating for this podcast, follow the instructions for whichever podcast app you are using. Transcript for this episode:https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2025/02/10/intermezzo/Newsletter:https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/newsletter/Leave response (can be anonymous):https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/message-box/Community:https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/community/Sponsor an artist:https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/sponsor-an-artist/Website:https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/ema_katrovas_podcast/

The first thing I learned about marketing for performers is: “You are a product.” But is that really the right message for young performers? And might there be a better alternative? The season will resume on February 3rd. You can find the full schedule here: ⁠https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/episode-schedule/⁠ Transcript and sources for this episode: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2024/12/09/episode6/ Music composed, recorded and produced by Silvia Berrone Cover art by Kateřina Krejcarová To leave a rating for this podcast, follow the instructions for whichever podcast app you are using.  Newsletter: ⁠https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/newsletter/⁠ Leave response (can be anonymous): ⁠https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/message-box/⁠ Community: ⁠https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/community/⁠ Sponsor an artist: ⁠https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/sponsor-an-artist/⁠ Website: ⁠https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/⁠ Instagram: ⁠@ema_katrovas_podcast

If you've never heard of the network effect, prepare to get disillusioned. But don't despair – knowing how the internet works can help you put focus in the right place as an artist. And there are also aspects of this new world we live in that are full of possibility. Music composed, recorded and produced by Silvia Berrone Cover art by Kateřina Krejcarová To leave a rating for this podcast, follow the instructions for whichever podcast app you are using.  Transcript and sources for this episode: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2024/12/02/ep-5/ Newsletter: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/newsletter/ Leave response (can be anonymous): https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/message-box/ Community: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/community/ Sponsor an artist: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/sponsor-an-artist/ Website: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/ Instagram: @ema_katrovas_podcast

Let's get a basic understanding of the five basic ways the arts get funded, how funding influences the nature of the art being made, and what that means for you as a performer. This episode became rather long - here are some timestamps in case you want to listen to just parts: 00:17:06 - what I think I did wrong in my funding attempts 00: 28:54 - The 5 Types of Arts Funding Music composed, recorded and produced by Silvia Berrone Cover art by Kateřina Krejcarová To leave a rating for this podcast, follow the instructions for whichever podcast app you are using.  Transcript: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2024/11/25/ep-4/ Sources: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2024/11/25/ep-4/#footnotes&sources Newsletter: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/newsletter/ Leave response (can be anonymous): https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/message-box/ Community: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/community/ Sponsor an artist: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/sponsor-an-artist/ Website: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/ Instagram: @ema_katrovas_podcast

What can you do with a performing arts degree, you ask? Well, according to some educators within the performing arts, you can be a great realtor if your performing career doesn't pan out. Let's articulate why that sort of thinking is counterproductive but also how exactly academic training DOESN'T prepare us for the real world and which skills to focus on to fill in what academic training leaves out. Transcript: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2024/11/18/episode3/ Footnotes & Sources: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2024/11/18/episode3/#footnotes&sources Music composed, recorded and produced by Silvia Berrone Cover art by Kateřina Krejcarová To leave a rating for this podcast, follow the instructions for whichever podcast app you are using.  Newsletter: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/newsletter/ Leave an anonymous answer: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/anonymous-answers/ Community: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/community/ Sponsor an artist: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/sponsor-an-artist/ Website: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ema_katrovas_podcast/

What can you do with a performing arts degree, you ask? Well, according to some educators within the performing arts, you can be a great realtor if your performing career doesn't pan out. Let's articulate why that sort of thinking is counterproductive but also how exactly academic training DOESN'T prepare us for the real world and which skills to focus on to fill in what academic training leaves out. Music composed, recorded and produced by Silvia Berrone Cover art by Kateřina Krejcarová Transcript of episode: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2024/11/11/episode2/ Footnotes & sources for this episode: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2024/11/11/episode2/#footnotes&sources Newsletter: ⁠https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/newsletter/⁠ Leave an anonymous response: ⁠https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/anonymous-answers/⁠ Community: ⁠https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/community/⁠ Sponsor an artist: ⁠https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/sponsor-an-artist/⁠ Website: ⁠https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/⁠ Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/ema_katrovas_podcast/⁠

Let's start this first season with the assumption that what you do as a performer is valuable beyond bringing you joy or status or distraction. It's a radical thought, I know. But without it, there's no point in your listening to this podcast. So let me make a case for why you matter as a performing artist and how what I want to share on this podcast can help you make the best use of it. Music composed, recorded and produced by Silvia Berrone Cover art by Kateřina Krejcarová Transcript of episode: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2024/11/04/episode1/ Footnotes & sources for this episode (including some pretty extensive arts employment data for the EU): https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2024/11/04/episode1/#footnotes&sources Newsletter: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/newsletter/ Leave an anonymous response: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/anonymous-answers/ Community: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/community/ Sponsor an artist: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/sponsor-an-artist/ Website: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ema_katrovas_podcast/

The first episode will launch a week from now, Monday, November 4th!  In this pre-season episode I want to tell you a little about how to listen to the podcast and how I envision it to be useful. I'll also talk about who I imagine my audience to be, how I'm using the term “classical,” and why I decided to create the show in the first place.  Links:  Episode transcript: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/2024/10/28/pilot-how-to-use-the-classically-untrained-podcast/ Season schedule: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/episode-schedule/ Newsletter: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/newsletter/ Anonymous answers: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/anonymous-answers/ Community: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/community/ Sponsor an artist: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/sponsor-an-artist/ Website: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/  Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ema_katrovas_podcast/

The first season of Classically (Un) Trained will run from October to December 2024. For more information visit: https://classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com/

In what I hope is the last update before I launch the first season of the new podcast, in this episode I will: 1) Tell you about audience survey results (including reading out some responses about performing artists' frustrations and responding to a repeating theme which surprised me) 2) Describe the podcast to come (including some titles of episodes I'm writing) 3) Tie up some loose ends from the last podcast! Currently the best way to stay up-to-date is the newsletter, which you can sing up for HERE. New Website (under construction): classicallyuntrainedpodcast.com Here is a full written presentation of the new podcast: Classically (Un)Trained - Performing Artists (Re)Inventing Themselves in Times of Hardship and Technological Change  Classically (Un)Trained is a companion for classically-trained performers who are on a journey to (re)invent themselves for the 21st century and (re)discover meaning in what they've trained so hard to master.   … Performing arts degrees are likened to pyramid schemes, auditions are called cattle calls, and artists who make a living from performing are the 1%.  If you're a classically-trained actor, singer, instrumentalist or dancer, you've heard these quips before and you're well aware - thank you very much - that you've trained hard to fit into a very elite but, as it turns out, very overcrowded market - and one that is shrinking under your feet.  Most advice for young performers focuses on how to break into the industry, make enough money from gigging, or find the right parallel career. Those things are important, but something's missing. What about the need to find meaning in what you do, beyond just chasing after your next stage "fix"? What about the fundamental need to be part of a community of people you respect and admire, not just ones you need to outcompete? What about the importance of doing something you know is relevant, meaningful and even, dare we say, essential?  In every episode of the first season of Classically (Un)Trained, we'll explore artistic solutions to the economic, social, and technological problems facing the 21st century classically-trained performing artist and explore how performers can find meaning in their work not just despite of, but also thanks to, the unique challenges they face today.  About the host: Ema Katrovas is a classically-trained singer. She spent her formative years singing in regional Czech theatres. After the pandemic, she pivoted to contemporary classical music and cultural journalism, attending the Aix-en-Provence festival's cultural journalism workshop and completing a two year Artist Diploma residency at the High Conservatory in Lyon, where she created and performed in the one-woman vocal-theatre show Diva Lazarus*. She is currently working on a doctorate at the University of Strasbourg/HEAR with a thesis called* A Poor Opera: In Search of Vocal Theatre. www.emakatrovas.com

In this quick update, I'm going to pitch you on my idea so far for an as-yet-unnamed podcast! But mainly - I need YOUR help to name and focus it. FILL OUT THE SURVEY HERE: https://forms.gle/12SG1TbPDe4khm7G7 Sign up for the Newsletter here.

Host of Artists on the Verge, Ema Katrovas, shares her next-day impressions after a live show she created which was two years in the making - and, more importantly, how her experiences around the budget, the technical aspects of the show, the reactions of the public, and the show's prospects for the future may hint at a new focus for the podcast. Here are links to the YouTube and Instagram accounts where you can find some of the shorts/reels about the show which Ema published in the month leading up to the show: YouTube Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLSFIN5ke8euZ18W2hUWGKNnd0MGCdSjVB Instagram account: https://www.instagram.com/artists_on_the_verge/ (During this episode, Ema mentions Jerzy Grotowski's Poor Theatre without much explanation - you can actually learn more about that in the shorts/reels linked above.)

Welcome to another conversation from the high/low art divide between opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas and comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony.  I was going to put the film the Sudbury Devil (whose creator I interviewed on this podcast) to rest - but then I stumbled across Susan Sontag's essay “Notes on Camp” and I realised “camp” kind of explains EVERYTHING about how Nick and I (i.e. a comedian and an opera singer) had very different reactions to this film - namely why Nick HATED it and I didn't. So what does “camp” have to do with certain corners of YouTube, the piece of outsider cinema called the Sudbury Devil, and how might it explain why two people might have different reactions to a particular work of art? Timestamps: 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:02 Conversation about why Nick didn't like the Sudbury Devil  00:34:44 Interlude and disclaimer to the creators of the film (“the opposite of love isn't hatred, it's indifference”)  00:35:66 Understanding Susan Sontag's “Notes on Camp”  00:53:58 Why camp MIGHT explain Nick's dislike of the Sudbury Devil (disclaimer: this features Ema's hot take on camp which she may revise)  01:08:40 So what is camp? (and final thoughts on Sudbury Devil)  01:12:59 Outro  My interview with Andrew Rakich on the Sudbury Devil: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/artistsontheverge/episodes/52-A-Friendly-Debate-With-Andrew-Rakich-On-His-Epic-Micro-budget-Film---The-Sudbury-Devil-e2euolq Links:

Welcome to another conversation from the high/low art divide between opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas and comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony.  This episode is the second half of a two-part series recorded in New York City - this time, fresh off of our experience of Sleep No More at the the McKittrick Hotel, an immersive theatre experience created by the British theatre company Punchdrunk. So what is Sleep No More? Is it a theatrical experience based on Shakespeare's MacBeth, Alfred Hitchcock's film noir Rebecca, and a real witch trial that took place in 1697 in Scotland, which is how it's advertised? Or is it an aesthetic haunted house? Or is it just an elaborate method of selling cocktails? Let's find out... Sleep No More website: https://mckittrickhotel.com/events/sleep-no-more/ Music: The bar did not end up getting back to me about who was playing live music that night. If I ever find out, will credit the musician/singer here. (If you or someone you know played Scallywags Irish Pub on 9th Ave Between 38th and 39th street late on January 10th, please let me know!) As background for my description of the experience, I used a recording someone uploaded to YouTube after smuggling a recording device into Sleep No More (!) - given that it's been up for a while, it seems the creators don't mind much: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYg0thPEPVw&t=2602s Peggy Lee's rendition of "Is That All There Is?": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3sWTnsemkIs Links:

Welcome to another conversation from the high/low art divide between opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas and comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony.  This episode is the first half of a two-part series recorded in New York - in this case, directly at the Metropolitan Opera. We recorded this episode sitting in our seats in the Family Circle, during both intermissions and right after the end of a performance of Zefirelli's classic production of Puccini's La Boheme, one of the most popular, if not the most popular, operas of the last century and, even better, one that tells the story of aspiring artists. The cast we heard on January 8th at the Metropolitan Opera:  Conductor: Marco Armiliato  Mimi: Elina Stikhina Rodolfo: Stephen Costello Musetta: Kristina Mkhitaryan Marcello: Adam Plachetka  Schaunard: Rodion Pogossov Colline: Krzysztof Bączyk Benoit/Alcindoro: Donald Maxwell Met Opera Chorus  Link to the recording I used as "illustration footage": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_1OtRt0_ho Cast of the recording (though you don't get to hear most of them): Mimì: Mirella Freni Rodolfo: Luciano Pavarotti Musetta: Annarita Taliento Marcello: Lucio Gallo Schaunard: Pietro Spagnoli Colline: Nicolai Ghiaurov Conductor: Daniel Oren

A conversation with Adrew Rakich of  @AtunSheiFilms  on his micro-budget period horror movie The Sudbury Devil. Rent or Buy the Sudbury Devil here: https://atunsheifilms.vhx.tv/products/the-sudbury-devil 00:00:00 - Intro - why I'm doing this interview (TALKING ABOUT THE FILM'S CONTENT) 00:01:41 - What does it mean to shock with your work? 00:09:20 - Ema's feminist critique 00:25:27 - The historical basis of Puritan devil worship (END OF SPOILERS - TALKING ABOUT INDIE CREATING) 00:31:17 - Are YouTubers Indie or Mainstream? 00:39:22 - The YouTube branch of arts funding and why Andrew chose it 00:44:11 - Andrew's update to his optimistic video about YouTubing 00:55:24 - Andrew's advice for dealing with a crowdfunded platform 01:01:00 - The critics are always right 01:03:57 - The Co-Op model of film funding (I don't usually use title generators - but this AI-generated title was just hilarious)

Comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony and opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas talk to William Deresiewicz, author of /Death of the Artist: How Creatives Struggle to Survive In the Age of Billionaires and Big Tech/. This book argues that artists have a harder time making a middle class living today than in previous generations - but is this true? And how does it effect the art and entertainment that's made today? Here is the video version on YouTube: https://youtu.be/p3YIytFgvAY Timestamps might be off by about 30 seconds: 00:00:00 Intro: The Two Stories Told About Being an Artist 00:01:04 Why did /Death of the Artist/ need to be written now? 00:02:31 But hasn't it ALWAYS been hard to be an artist? 00:05:03 How is all this unique to artists? Aren't a lot of middle-class professions in danger? 00:06:08 What is Art with a capital “A” and why is it under threat? 00:09:06 The TV Renaissance is Over (Amending the section on TV in /Death of the Artist/) 00:11:06 Is interviewing 140 artists really representative of the arts industry? 00:15:56 Is it helpful for individual artists to look at the issues of the arts industry ? 00:17:58 Is art really “boring” now? And why does William Deresiewicz not watch movies in movie theatres? 00:21:16 Blockbusterisation and the loss of the creative middle class 00:25:15 But isn't there actually a glut of good content now? (going back to the article “We're all Bored of Culture Now”) 00:32:22 Isn't journalism a form of art? And is it not subjective? (i.e. Nick pushes back) 00:34:04 Blaming wokeness for boring art 00:43:12 What if you're depressed after reading /Death of the Artist/? Is there an actionable takeaway? 00:45:35 How do you reconcile pouring your youth and talent into an arts education that has no chance of leading to a satisfying career? How to repurpose creative skills? 00:52:06 What does the gamification of internet popularity say about the value of art? How does the internet lower the time and skill put into creative endeavours? 00:58:12 The 1000 true fans model - does it work? 00:59:07 “Everyone is an artist”: The Romantic myth that led to the Silicon Valley myth / David Graeber and Nicka Dubrovsky's essay “Another Art World” 1:03:50 The lifecycle of an artist and how artists are discouraged as children 1:06:32 Saying goodbye (jazz clubs and experimental theatre shows we're going to see) Links to stuff we talk about: The Death of the Artist: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250125514/thedeathoftheartist Article “We're all Bored of Culture”: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/bored-of-culture-william-deresiewicz Article “On Not Drinking the Kool Aid”: https://salmagundi.skidmore.edu/articles/434-on-not-drinking-the-kool-aid

Welcome to another conversation from the high/low art divide between opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas and comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony. For this end-of-the-year episode, Nick and Ema decided to talk about The Beatles and their influence on a few pieces of “high art”: new journalist Joan Didion's essay “The White Album” and avant garde singer Cathy Berberian's covers of Beatles' songs. They also briefly talk about American composer Ned Rorem's essay “The Music of the Beatles”. Their starting point is a 2021 documentary by Peter Jackson, Get Back. Nick and Ema circle around the question: Were the Beatles exceptional, lucky, or both? Does one need opportunity or even fame to create one's best work? Is trying to tell a story about the Beatles, or any other iconic artist, that answers these questions even useful?  Music excerpts from this episode:  Revolution 9 from the Beatles' White Album (1968) Gavin Bryars' “Jesus' Blood Never Found me Yet”(1971) Cathy Berberian's cover of “She's Got a Ticket to Ride” (1977)  Cathy Berberian's Stripsody (1966)  Things mentioned in the episode (in order of appearance): “Now and Then” (new Beatles' song): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Opxhh9Oh3rg Deresiewicz's essay “We're All Bored of Culture Now”: https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/bored-of-culture-william-deresiewicz Get Back, the Beatles documentary by Peter Jackson (it didn't come out “last year” like we said but in 2021): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Beatles:_Get_Back Bernstein's lecture on the Beatles: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v32U0mjGz6g Rick Beato's music channel: https://www.youtube.com/@RickBeato Joan Didion's book of essays “The White Album”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Album_(book) Ned Rorem's essay “The Music of the Beatles”: https://jdsalas.files.wordpress.com/2019/07/article-the-music-of-the-beatles-.pdf Susan Sontag's “Notes on Camp”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notes_on_%22Camp%22 Collection of academic essays on Cathy Berbarian: https://www.routledge.com/Cathy-Berberian-Pioneer-of-Contemporary-Vocality/Karantonis-Placanica-Verstraete/p/book/9780367669294  Links:

Welcome to another conversation from the high/low art divide. On Nick's last night in Prague, Nick and Ema went to see the world-premiere of a contemporary opera by Richard Braxton, Trillium X, at the DOX Center for Contemporary Art in Prague. They recorded this reaction that same night. Some things mentioned or not remembered:  Anthony Braxton: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony_Braxton Ostrava Days: https://www.newmusicostrava.cz/en/ostrava-days/about-festival/ Petr Kotík's composition I took Aderol to attend: Many Many Women  Patricia Barber: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricia_Barber The image of the opera house Ema mentions comes from the book The Gilded Stage: A Social History of Opera : https://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/gilded-stage-daniel-snowman/1020670873 Leonard Bernstein's Candide: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candide_(operetta) The librettist of Nixon in China (which premiered in 1987): Alice Goodman  Links:

An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar is a segment of the Artists on the Verge podcast which features conversations from the high/low art divide between comedian and TV writer Nicholas Anthony and your host Ema Katrovas. In this episode Nick and Ema attempt to finish reading the chapter on the film industry from William Dereziewits's Death of the Artist. They also talk about some real-life stories from trying to make it in the film and TV industry and quite a bit about YouTube and the small YouTube creator strategy, including a detour on the canceling of YouTuber Lindsey Ellis. They also talk a lot about technology and mind control, among other things. Some things mentioned which merit citation:  Duplass brothers book /Like Brothers/: https://www.randomhousebooks.com/books/535098/ Sizzle for My Girlfriend's a Doll (the project that didn't quite make it into the Sundance lab): https://vimeo.com/175526344 Documentary about making Apocalypse Now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hearts_of_Darkness:_A_Filmmaker%27s_Apocalypse#:~:text=Hearts%20of%20Darkness%3A%20A%20Filmmaker's%20Apocalypse%20is%20a%201991%20American,directed%20by%20Francis%20Ford%20Coppola. Coffeezilla (investigative journalism YouTube channel): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffeezilla Everyday Astronaut (YouTube channel about rockets) : https://www.youtube.com/@EverydayAstronaut Czech dancer Yemi who was selected to go to the moon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coG6kDB9pzc Contrapoints (YouTuber): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ContraPoints PhilosophyTube (YouTube channel): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abigail_Thorn Lindsey Ellis: https://www.youtube.com/@LindsayEllisVids Lindsey Ellis' investigative journalism piece on the Hobbit movies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTRUQ-RKfUs  Contrapoints essay on Canceling: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjMPJVmXxV8 Lindsay Ellis cancelling: https://www.nbcnews.com/pop-culture/pop-culture-news/former-youtuber-lindsay-ellis-says-s-learning-live-trauma-canceled-rcna35389  The art anthropologist we don't mention by name: Ellen Dissanayake  Cambridge Analytica documentary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_Hack The Priest's Children (the Croatian comedy Nick would like to adapt): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Priest%27s_Children Article about the Israeli show Shall We Kiss and the Czech version Až po uši (that Ema participated in translating): https://medium.com/warnermediaent/hbo-europes-original-series-head-over-heels-and-when-shall-we-kiss-now-available-a2040b2bdb1a Exporting Raymond Documentary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exporting_Raymond Mr. Beast: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MrBeast Elisabeth Gilbert's TED talk: https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_your_elusive_creative_genius?language=en Links:

Melissa Watkins is a writer, mostly of non fiction and science fiction. She's also one of the most truly cosmopolitan people you'll ever meet. Originally from the US, she spent a substantial portion of her life first in the UK then in South Korea, putting into practice her specialisation in multiculturalism through non-colonial lenses in a multitude of ways in both corporate and academic spaces. She decided to return to the US after the pandemic which ended up being an eye-opening experience, one which becomes a major theme of the interview. The other major themes of the interview emerge from the host's first conversation with Melissa, about the internet and AI as it pertains to artists. Some links: Melissa's blog Equal Opportunity Reader: https://equalopportunityreader.com/ Melissa's article "A Repat's Guide to Boston": https://statesider.us/repats-guide-to-boston/ For other publications by Melissa a good place to go is the "about" section of her blog: https://equalopportunityreader.com/about/ The music track for this episode is Alsad suugaa eej by the Earthling vocal troupe (which Melissa sings in): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9lTqLrthvKQ *(Apologies for background noise due to the host being post-illness and having to suck on a lozenge to keep from having coughing fits.)*

An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar is a segment of the Artists on the Verge podcast which features conversations from the high/low art divide between comedian and TV writer Nicholas Anthony and your host Ema Katrovas. In this episode, Nick and Ema start reading the chapter on the film and TV industry in Death of the Artist (a book they discussed in the last episode after meeting the author) - which sets them off on some controversial subjects, including women in the film industry, with mixed results (Ema gets something like feminist revenge when she expresses her oddly strong distaste for the movie The Social Network.) Some things we mention which merit citation: The Death of the Artist by William Deresiewitz: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250125514/thedeathoftheartist Mr. Beast (in case you don't understand what Nick means by “Mr Beastification”):  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MrBeast The Social Network: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Social_Network

This is an audio version of an article I wrote arguing against using the phrase "everyone is an artist." Read the full article here: https://medium.com/@ema.katrovas/we-need-a-more-boring-definition-of-artist-4b4aa9f76832

An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar features opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas, talking to comedian-and-TV-writer-turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony. They have conversations from across the high/low art divide with the goal of being honest about what a life centring art - high or low - actually looks like. Nick and Ema recorded this episode directly after attending a talk by William Deresiewitz, author of Death of the Artist: How Creatives Struggle in the Age of Billionaires and Big Tech. Links to stuff we talk about: William Dereseiwitz - The Death of the Artist: https://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250125514/thedeathoftheartist Network effect: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Network_effect Tangerine (movie shot on iPhones): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tangerine_(film) Nebula (creator-led alternative to YouTube): https://nebula.tv/ The installation Ema worked on for the Muzeum of Literature in Prague was called Abaceda. There is no link - you would have to go to the Muzeum of Literature of Prague: https://www.muzeumliteratury.cz/en/ OpenSea: https://opensea.io/ The American royalties-collecting institution: https://www.ascap.com/

Welcome to episode 2 of this segment of the Artists on the Verge podcast called an Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar. It features your host, opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas, talking to comedian-and-TV-writer turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony. They have conversations from across the high/low art divide with the goal of being honest about what a life centering art - high or low - actually looks like.  In this episode it's story time - Nick goes down the memory line of his “true Hollywood experience” complete with agents and writers' rooms and making sizzles. Nick and Ema also talk about the NACAs (National Association for Campus Activities), something Ema never heard of before but which apparently launches some performance careers in the US. They talk about the beautiful netherworld of regional entertainment scenes and about the disappearance of the Hollywood middle-class, and do a little detour on the 80-year-old mime living behind a curtain who used to be Nick's housemate. Credits: Recorded in Prague, Czech Republic, in July 2023 Featuring: Nicholas Anthony and Ema Katrovas Recorded and edited by Ema Katrovas Theme song is "Stars" by Janis Ian (performed by Ema Katrovas and mixed to sound like a bar) Stuff we talk about: The NACAs (National Association for Campus Activities): https://www.naca.org/ The regional talent agency Nick worked for: https://www.glberg.com/ The Post Post Apocalypse (a FunnyOrDie series Nick starred in): http://www.nicholasanthony.com/blog/the-walking-dead/ My Girlfriend's a Doll (sizzle for Nick's project): https://vimeo.com/175526344 Unlikely Assassins (sizzle/pilot for Nick's project): https://vimeo.com/269707372 Podcasts Links:

An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar is a new segment of the Artists ont he Verge podcast. It features your host, opera-singer-turned-experimental-performer Ema Katrovas, talking to comedian-and-TV-writer turned-novelist Nicholas Anthony. They'll be having conversations from across the high/low art divide with the goal of being honest about what a life centring art - high or low - actually looks like. In this first episode, Nick and Ema end up talking about an artist's education and the different forms it takes on the high and low part of the spectrum. They also talk about the fertile soil which was the open mic at Acme, a Minneapolis-based club where Nick did stand up for the first time, do a little detour on the matriarchs in Ema's family and living under communism, and talk about how sometimes it's necessary to totally reinvent yourself - as Nick and Ema have both done, on some level. Credits: Recorded in Prague, Czech Republic, in July 2023 Featuring: Nicholas Anthony and Ema Katrovas Recorded and edited by Ema Katrovas Theme song is "Stars" by Janis Ian (performed by Ema Katrovas and mixed to sound like a bar) Links to stuff mentioned in the conversation: That Shia la Beouf "just do it" video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-sfG8BV8wU Acme - the Minneapolis comedy club: https://acmecomedycompany.com/Steve Martin's band Steep Canyon Rangers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steep_Canyon_Rangers Steve Martin, Born Standing Up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Born_Standing_Up Patricia Hampl (the writer who traveled to communist Czechoslovakia): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patricia_Hampl Patricia Hampl's “monodrama” which Ema performed in: https://schubert.org/event/spotlight-on-patricia-hampl-writing-my-way-into-music/ "Socialism with a human face": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism_with_a_human_face The experimental Artist Diploma Ema is doing: https://www.cnsmd-lyon.fr/fr-2/les-formations/un-cycle-professionnalisant

Artists on the Verge is Back from break! Here is a sneak-peak of a new segment, An Opera Singer and a Comedian Walk Into a Bar. To follow the shorts/reels on YouTube or Instagram: YouTube: @ArtistsontheVerge Instagram: @artists_on_the_verge

Watch video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/4O0W4A2l5ds I learned the term "scriptlessness" recently and realized it's why I started the Artists on the Verge channel. Source: David Graeber's /Bullshit Jobs/ which cites a a paper called "Unrequited Love: On Heartbreak, Anger, Guilt, Scriptlessness and Humiliation" (R. Baumeister, S. Wotman, A. Stillwell.)

I was surprised to learn that it wasn't until 2020 that the G20 held its first Cultural Ministerial Meeting to discuss the importance of the creative sector to the economy and it wasn't until 2021 that they established the Cultural Working Group, the purpose of which is to address issues relating to the creative economy. So, what I'm going to read to you today, is a report on the state of the creative industries which was written up for the first Cultural Working Group in 2021 by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD). I have not been able to find any documents on what the three years of G20 discussions on the cultural sector have actually yielded, but will keep an eye on that!   Link to the full report: https://www.oecd.org/cfe/leed/OECD-G20-Culture-July-2021.pdf

This is the second part of my reading “The Arts After Darwin: Does Art Have an Origin and Adaptive Function?” In the first part of the essay, Ellen Dissanayake explained why she thinks it's helpful to think of art as an adaptive function and lays out some of the existing hypotheses of how art may have helped us survive, in the Darwinian sense. However, she argues most of the existing hypothesis aren't really general enough or are skewed by Western notions of what art is. In the second half of the paper, which I read to you in this episode, the author lays out her own hypothesis about the adaptive function of art, which she argues is more universal. The author, Ellen Dissanayake, is best known for three books on art anthropology: What Is Art For? (1988), Homo Aestheticus: Where Art Comes from and Why (1992) and Art and Intimacy: How the Arts Began (2000). I chose to read “Arts After Darwin”, which was published in 2008 as a chapter in a book called World Art Studies, not just because it's a shorter, stand-alone, piece but also because it is general enough to serve as an introduction for someone, like me, who isn't an anthropologist. It was also published after Dissanayake's three main books on art anthropology, which means she had completed the bulk of her research into this subject by the time she wrote this – not to mention that recency is very important when considering academic writing, especially when there's a scientific aspect to it.   You can read "Art After Darwin" yourself here: http://mail.ellendissanayake.com/publications/pdf/EllenDissanayake_ArtsAfterDarwinWAS08.pdf  

This is the first part of my reading “The Arts After Darwin: Does Art Have an Origin and Adaptive Function?” The author, Ellen Dissanayake, is best known for three books on art anthropology: What Is Art For? (1988), Homo Aestheticus: Where Art Comes from and Why (1992) and Art and Intimacy: How the Arts Began (2000). I chose to read “Arts After Darwin”, which was published in 2008 as a chapter in a book called World Art Studies, not just because it's a shorter, stand-alone, piece but also because it is general enough to serve as an introduction for someone, like me, who isn't an anthropologist. It was also published after Dissanayake's three main books on art anthropology, which means she had completed the bulk of her research into this subject by the time she wrote this – not to mention that recency is very important when considering academic writing, especially when there's a scientific aspect to it.   You can read "Art After Darwin" yourself here: http://mail.ellendissanayake.com/publications/pdf/EllenDissanayake_ArtsAfterDarwinWAS08.pdf   *I accidently called the paper an “essay” on the recording, which isn't the right term for this kind of paper.

An under-3-minute summary of the three-part essay "Another Artworld" which examines the fraught legacy of "high" art. Also - my take. This is actually a video episode, though it can also just be listened to. You can find it on YouTube here: https://youtu.be/PaS0CWcMvEI 00:00 Intro 00:31 Summary of "Another Art World" - in less than 3 minutes 03:11 A Different Take on "Another Art World" --- How do you fund this? --- Art as Care --- High Art vs. Popular Art vs. Publicly-Funded Art... all have their issues --- The big question we have to answer before we can change anything! --- What helped me...

This is my honest review of the colossal undertaking that was the TV opera Everything for Dawn by Experiments in Opera. The review was “commissioned by” Theorema Review, a recently-started multi-lingual journal in which artists review other artist.   Link to my review in Theorema Review: https://theorem-a.org/2023/06/21/everything-for-dawn-by-experiments-in-opera/   Link to Experiments in Opera's Everything for Dawn: https://experimentsinopera.com/portfolio-item/everythingfordawn/   Live reaction to Everything for Dawn w/ Jim Osman: Episode 1: https://youtu.be/1wP0aKjKfw0 Episode 2: https://youtu.be/Of3OzIDa43A Episode 3: https://youtu.be/Vw_n4ydRlAE   Conversation with Jason Cady on Artists on the Verge: https://spotifyanchor-web.app.link/e/zYCdeKnuOAb

We're finally here - at the third installment of reading "Another Art World" by Nika Dubrovsky and David Graeber. Even if you're a new listener, you can start here because in the last segment, the author's promised to finally get to the heart of the matter: What might "another art world" look like? But – something happened between the last instalment of the essay, published in November 2019, and this installment from November 2020: the pandemic and the anti policing protests of the summer of 2020. Understandably, the authors felt they had to switch gears – so this installment of the essay spends quite some time drawing a parallel between the police state and the art world. Link to the third installment of "Another Art World" in eFlux magazine: https://www.e-flux.com/journal/113/360192/another-art-world-part-3-policing-and-symbolic-order/ My interview with co-author Nika Dubrovsky: https://youtu.be/j9TyYRo0OQQ Music: Dieter van der Westen: The Balkan Night Train

This episode is a conversation with composer and Web III researcher (and internet sceptic!) Reilly Smethurst. Is it a pessimistic episode? I actually don't think so. My take: The fact that the internet does not replace real-life communities and live gatherings around art, and hurts artists by creating global, algorithmically-moderated competition, is an empowering bit of knowledge which I hope inspires listeners to find ways to make art outside the internet and use the internet in smart ways to their advantage. Reilly and I talk about the strange disbalance between the number of viable career paths for artists and the number of people studying creative disciplines, the absurdities of arts funding, the difference between the Dionysian and Apollonian approach to creating, artificial scarcity, how regulation may be the only answer to the excesses of the online arts market, and Reilly's one actionable solution to the predicament posed by the internet, among other things. All music in this episode by Reilly Smethurst: Inheritance (2019) Uterus (2016) Organised (2019) Angel (2018) During the interview, we mention the essay “Another Artworld” by Nika Dubrovsky and David Graeber. Here are some links:   My interview with Nika Dubrovsky: https://youtu.be/j9TyYRo0OQQ Reacting to “Another Art World” Pt. 1: https://youtu.be/ufgK9PJszYY Reacting to “Another Art World” Pt. 2: https://youtu.be/9QnxN425yyw Timestamps (add 30 seconds to account for intro): 00:00 Intro 02:28 Arts careers on the decline but more people studying arts 08:32 The problem with electronic music and Reilly's "Apollonian reactionary phase" 20:00 Mocking the arts funding bodies 23:37 Web II and Web III - almost the same and both bad for artists + failures of Audius and OpenSea and the difference between music industry and art industry 40:57 Reilly's advice about how to face a world impacted by the internet

No time to read academic essays? Well, have no fear, we'll read this one together. "Another Art World" by David Graeber and Nika Dubrovsky examines how we might re-imagine the art world. Part II of "Another Art World" lays out a hypothesis about how post-industrial ideas of production as well as ideas imbedded in Western thought as far back as Greek myth, unfairly legitimize the existence of curators, art dealers, and art administrators, who safeguard the ONE rule that can't be broken within the art establishment. If you want to know what that rule is, keep listening. Oh, and that faux “experimental,” “boundary-pushing” posture of contemporary art? They argue it's not a bug but a feature, one that benefits those who most profit from art dealing. Link to text of "Another Art World Pt. 1" in eFlux journal: https://www.e-flux.com/journal/104/298663/another-art-world-part-2-utopia-of-freedom-as-a-market-value/

David (aka Dev) Devereux's story is one of carving out a space of freedom online. A full-time sound engineer by profession, Dev is the founder of Tin Can Audio, a Glasgow-based audio fiction company which has become home to all the strange sounds and stories Dev wants to make. Community is important to Dev's story – from the community of wonderful voice actors and creators around Tin Can Audio to the online community, which Dev has engaged in interesting ways by opening up the creative process to the public (for example by making an entire audio fiction drama, from script writing to sound editing, live on Twitch.) Dev and I talk about the origins of and funny stories from the series made under Tin Can Audio, about the more unexpected inspirations for stories from video games to music to popular TV shows, the idea of demystifying the creative process and showing audiences how things are made, and about how much time goes into making something that's actually good, among other things. This episode features music from Dev's audio fiction (The Tower and Middle:Bellow, respectively) as well as excerpts from the audio fictions Tin Can, Middle:Bellow, The Tower, The Dungeons Economic Model, and Anamnesis featuring the voices of (in order of appearance): David Devereux Charlotte Ryder David Pellow Katrina Allen Mark Gallie Roger Best Links : https://daviddevereux.carrd.co/ https://www.tincanaudio.co.uk/

No time to read academic essays? Well, have no fear, we'll read this one together. "Another Art World" by David Graeber and Nika Dubrovsky talks about how we might re-imagine the art world. In part one, they introduce the idea of the art world creating artificial scarcity and talk about how this has roots in Romanticism. They also touch on the Proletkult in early 20th century Russia, which was founded on the (Romantic?) idea that "everyone is an artist" and was one of the few real-life attempts to create art communism. Link to text of "Another Art World Pt. 1" in eFlux journal: https://www.e-flux.com/journal/102/284624/another-art-world-part-1-art-communism-and-artificial-scarcity/

In this conversation with director Vivian Säde and producer Eve Tisler we talk about a short film we've been working on (named Echo and created around the monodrama Sentiment by Juliana Hall and Caitlin Vincent) in order to talk openly about all the work that goes into any creative project, even when things never actually "click" to make the project to happen. We also talk about "women filmmakers," budgets, artists and mental health and how opera on film is gatekept, among other things. YouTube version (with supplementary images): https://youtu.be/7nKWWPi-pWg A blog post talking more deeply about the EU grant escapade: https://soprano-on-the-verge.blogspot.com/2021/11/was-ist-kunst-on-bureaucracy-and-work.html Contents (add 30 seconds to accommodate intro): 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:18 The Logline 00:01:29 The First Two Years: From Test Shoot to EU Grant Escapade 00:09:28 New Beginnings: Teaming Up with Vivian 00:13:15 Eve Comes on as Producer 00:13:59 Choosing the Right Collaborators 00:16:27 A Detour with a Czech Producer 00:18:48 Women in the Film Industry 00:24:45 Echo: The Producer's Point of View 00:27:11 What IS a producer, anyway? 00:34:53 Our Estonian Experimental Film Fund Application 00:36:15 The Realities of Short Film Budgets and Paying Your Crew 00:41:21 Women Aging IN to the Film Industry 00:45:48 Artists and Mental Health 00:52:32 The Committee Evaluation of the Estonian Experimental Film Fund 00:58:36 The Particular Difficulty of Funding an Opera Film 01:02:52 Reinventing Opera, the Voice, and the point of making Echo 01:08:23 Final Thoughts (and a Final Plaint About the American Funding System)

Nika Dubrovsky is an artist who believes everyone is an artist. Originally from Russia, where, after an education in visual arts, she was involved with the cultural underground of the 80s, she immigrated to the United States in 1989, right after the communist regime fell. Interestingly, once in the US, Nika seemed to take up the same position she had under totalitarianism, in circles of cultural critics and activist. One of Nika's recent projects is the Museum of Care, the concept of which comes from an essay of the same name which she wrote with her late husband, David Graeber, during the pandemic of 2020. The essay imagines a world in which the office buildings left empty by lockdowns are turned into communal spaces, or Museums of Care, after the pandemic, the way royal palaces were turned into state museums after the French and Russian revolutions. The idea of art, and the place of art and the artist, are important to Nika Dubrovsky's, and for that matter David Graeber's, cultural critique, which is why I wanted to interview Nika for this podcast. Nika and I talk about the underground art scene in Soviet Russia, the Proletkult, in which everyone is an artist, the idea of direct vs. indirect action, the creation of autonomous zones, like the Zapatista communities or Rozhava, and at the end I ask Nika three questions about her article, co-written with David Graeber, “Another Art World” which critiques art institutions as they exist today – among other things. ❤️ Time stamps (please add 30 seconds to account for the intro):  03:14 – Nika's origins and Samizdat 06:27 – The Museum of Care 10:50 – “The Government is the Government, the State is the State” (and meeting David Graeber) 13:29 – Visual Assembly, the Role of the Artist, Proletkult and how Everyone is an Artist 20:02 – The War Against the Imagination 23:20 – Storytelling, Creative Refusal, Schizmogenesis 24:44 – Technology 26:39 – Extinction Rebellion and Direct vs. Indirect  Action 30:50 – Taking direct action and autonomous zones 40:15 – The Mona Lisa and Its Value 42:09 – Three Questions About Another Art World 42:47 – A Summary of “Another Art World” 44:17 – Question 1: Isn't the internet a social experiment in what happens when everyone can be a creator and, if so, why are there still winners and losers? 01:00:40 – Question 2: Even if everyone should have the access to the means of producing art, isn't art also an act of service which requires expertise? 01:12:29 – Question 3: Why use the word “communism”?

In this Snippet, I debate myself-from-a-little-over-a-year-ago about the internet as it pertains to artists by re-reading and reacting to an article I wrote on Medium called “5 Ways The Internet is Failing You As An Artists – And 5 Things You Can Do About It.” I recorded this in the context of having done some interesting interviews lately but not having time to edit them just yet – so this is me feeding the beast of an online platform whilst complaining about the very mechanism that compels me to do so. The irony does not escape me. Here is the original article: https://medium.com/@ema.katrovas/5-ways-the-internet-is-failing-you-as-an-artist-1eec8b6e3bbb

This is my reading an article I wrote for a newly-launched publication called Theorema Review (https://theorem-a.org/). I'm mainly reading it to draw attention to the idea behind the publication, launched a couple months ago by a friend, that of artists reviewing other artists (though I also used my review as an excuse to ponder experimental vocal music history and experimentation vs. communication in art.) Lots of John Cage and Cathy Berberian in the this one! Link to the article (including footnotes and sources): https://theorem-a.org/2022/12/08/anaphora-by-michael-edward-edgerton/ During my reading I play Felicita Brusoni's rendition of Michael Edward Edgerton's Anaphora available in full here: https://youtu.be/dgkiWUgNEdA --- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/convoontheverge/message

This is the audio from the anniversary livestream I did on January 13th, 2023. I fixed some of the audio issues from the livestream so it's a bit easier to listen to. You can also watch the original livestream here: https://youtu.be/gGUW5q1IIDI Livestream schedule: Vivian Säde (director and screenwriter, co-host) - 19:00 - 20:30 CET (1pm-2:30pm EST) 1 9:20 - 19:40 CET (1:20-1:40pm EST) - Jason Cady (composer, co-founder of Experiments in Opera) and Christoph Ogiermann (composer, improvisor) 19:50 - 20:10 CET (1:50-2:10pm EST): Elena Floris (violinist, actress at Odin Teatret) and Felicita Brusoni (vocal experimenter) 20:10 - 20:30 CET (2:10-2:30pm EST): Darja Lukjanenko (visual artist and communicator) and Helena Mamich (psychiatrist and singer) Omar Shahryar (composer of music for and by children, co-host) - 20:30 - 21:20 CET (2:30-3:20pm EST) 20:40-21:00 CET (2:40-3pm EST): Kate Gale (writer, founder of Red Hen Press) and Richard Katrovas (writer, ex-poet, father of the host) 21:00 - 21:20 CET (3-3:20pm EST): Cassandra Kaczor (classical-composer-turned-pop-music-artist) and Deyiş Görgülü (singer of Ottoman music)

This is a Snippet in which I ask myself why it seems so hard to be original in the field of contemporary art/theater/music and possibly introduce you to the term “flameout,” coined by anthropologist David Graeber. The snippet is also available with images/video on YouTube: https://youtu.be/h0eBr6l0BsM Link to David Graeber's lecture (very recommended): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCF-8OQj0RE David Graeber's website: https://davidgraeber.org/ The Institute for Experimental Art (co-founded by Graeber): https://theinstitute.info/ Full Artists on the Verge episode with composer Jason Cady (the one I quote at the end): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNOaqOmRl1w ❤️More about this podcast: onthevergetrilogy.com ❤️Instragram: @Soprano_on_the_verge

Deyiş Görgülü was 9 years old when she swore off music. She was 30 when she decided to take it up again. So, what makes someone refuse music for 20 years? Deyiş grew up in Turkey as part of the Alevi Bektashi community. In fact, her name, Deyiş, is the name for a type of Alevi spiritual music. But, in the mid-90s, as a child, she lived through one of the flareups of the Kurdish-Turkish conflict. The tension surrounding this conflict, which started way back in the early 70s, meant that her father, a trumpetist for the Turkish army, forbid her from singing Alevi songs, since Alevi culture is fundamentally pacifist and therefore anti-military. It wasn't until she moved to France, as an adult, that she felt she could sing again and, eventually, founded an ensemble called Evden with viola d'amore player Isabelle Eder and flautist Marie Ploquin. They perform a kind of fusion between European classical music and Ottoman music – and just to give you an idea of the vastness of Ottoman music, Deyiş sings in Ladino, Turkish, Greek, Assyrian, Armenian, and Arabic among other languages. Deyiş and I talk about Alevi culture and the cem gathering, which Deyiş likens a to jam session, about the vast world of Ottoman music, about the meaning of the word Evden, the name of her ensemble, about a song Deyiş is writing for the women of Iran, and about one problem shared by music and baklava, among other things. Evden's Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/evdenmusique/ Musique: Evden Musique - Yeniliğe Doğru (text by Rumi) (live): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0TnNth-1tM Erdal Erzincan - Bugün Bize Pir Geldi: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=24Yfvj6e0t0 Evden Musique - Evden Musique - Στο 'πα και στο ξαναλέω (Sto 'pa Kai Sto Ksanaleo): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTriUPjSQQk

Madness. It's a popular literary and operatic themes, but seldom would you get to talk to an artist who is trained to cure madness. Helena Mamich leads a double life: she is both a doctor at a psychiatric ward in Berlin and a soprano spatializing in classical contemporary music. As a singer, Helena has achieved enough even for someone who doesn't have a parallel life as a doctor– she has premiered numerous works by contemporary composers, recently debuted in a new opera at the Bethanien Theater in Berlin, collaborated with the German band Black Needle noise on a crossover track, and in the year 2019 she won the Večernjakova Domovnica prize awarded annually by the Večerjni list daily newspaper for the most successful musician of the Croatian diaspora and as if that wasn't enough, Helena has recently published a book of political haikus in her native Croatian. One of Helena's big missions is to educate the public about psychiatry and one of the ways she would like to do that is through a short opera based on her experiences as a psychiatrist (she's already written the libretto.) Helena and I talk about how psychiatry and classical contemporary music complement each other, how important understanding someone's culture is in determining whether they have a psychiatric condition, how every discharge letter from a psychiatric ward could be a libretto, as well as one thing Helena says should be taught in conservatories but isn't. Helena's website and blog: https://helenamamic.com/ Helena's Instagram: @helenamamich Music (all music on this episode is interpreted by Helena Mamich): G.Scelsi -Lilitu: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zIUhF7EOMxs Black Needle Noise: https://soundcloud.com/doctordiva/just-one-more-day-nocturnal-vocalise Gerhard Stäbler: blindflug: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GyY7ub_TYU&t=69s Ivana Lang: Macji pir (Cat's wedding): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p-GdFrgJjw

Meet Felicita Brusoni, Italian singer and voice researcher. Felicita is pursuing a doctorate at Malmö Academy of Music is Sweden (part of Lund University) where she is working on a project called “A Voice Beyond the Edge.” One of her main mentors is composer Michael Edgerton, author of The 21st Century Voice: Contemporary and Traditional Extra Normal Voice which is a catalog of vocal sounds that often comes up in conversations about extended vocal techniques. As the name of Felicita's artistic research project implies, this is definitely going to be an episode for voice geeks but also for those who like the bizarre. Felicita and I talk about the inaccuracy of the term “extended vocal techniques,” about the somewhat hard-to-define but increasingly popular discipline of “artistic research,” about the difference between extended techniques in the mid-20th century and today, about Felicita's fresh discovery that humans can produce ultrasounds, but also about singers Cathy Berberian and even Maria Callas and, at the end, Felicita even tries to teach me an extended technique I hadn't done before – to mixed results. Felicita's website: https://www.felicitabrusoni.com/ Felicita's Instagram: @felicitabrusoni_soprano

To see images pertaining to this episode (including Darja's social sculpture End of the World Bread) you can watch the YouTube version: https://youtu.be/x3mV2gaGj-4 Darja Lukjanenko is a Ukrainian visual art student based in Prague, Czech Republic, who, since the beginning of the war in Ukraine, started giving lectures about Ukrainian art to the public to amend what she perceived as a pervasive ignorance about Ukrainian heritage and the sovereignty of its art. During our interview, Darja and I sat next to her “social sculpture” called End of the World Bread. It's a table with a white tablecloth and on it some six loaves of bread. The soil baked into the bread was collected in Kiev by another Ukrainian artist, Bohdana Zaiats, on the first days of the 2022 invasion of Ukraine. Darja and I talk about bread as a universal symbol of home, an open letter Darja wrote to a major Czech arts organization since the beginning of the war, the potentially problematic use of the word “decolonize” in the context of post-Soviet countries, and the artists social responsibility, among other things. Darja's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/darjalukjanenko Music for this episode is by Sasha Lukjanenko, from Darja's project called Lullaby for Plevel: https://vimeo.com/476913174 More about this podcast: onthevergetrilogy.com