Unseen Leadership

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership Podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Dan Iten are joined by William Vanerbloemen, CEO and Founder of the Vanderbloemen Search Group, to discuss the topic of leadership and his latest book, “Be the Unicorn: 12 Data-Driven Habits That Separate the Best Leaders from the Rest.” Vanderbloemen shares insights from his research on exceptional leaders and their common habits, aiming to provide people with a guide to becoming exceptional leaders themselves. The interview also delves into Vanderbloemen's diverse background and experiences, including his time as a pastor and starting his own firm. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 84 “God called us to be fishers of men, not keepers of an aquarium.” – Lyle E. Schaller “The leadership that I had to learn when I was a pastor might be more important now than ever because I had to learn how to get people to follow when they didn't have to.” – William Vanderbloemen “Until you learn your own weaknesses, you won't ever be able to help anybody else.” – William Vanderbloemen “If you're thinking of making a change, the best transitions I've seen are when you sense completion where you are and then a step towards something good that's coming. Don't just step away from your job with nothing in hand. If you've completed what you were called to do and you're headed towards something new, there's a higher likelihood that you're walking in step with the rhythm that you need to.” – William Vanderbloemen “Particularly in 18-35-year-olds, they get a job offer and then they counter. Obviously, if they're not paying you fairly, then you can have that conversation. But there are so many times I see people in that age range counteroffer and shoot themselves in the foot. Even if they land the job and get the counter, they're starting workday one with the label of that the guy knows everything. I think the longer, slower, more successful play is to prove yourself, and you'll never have to ask for a raise.” – William Vanderbloemen I think particularly if you're a new leader where you're serving some people that are older than you, go ask them to tell you about the best days of this company or the best days of this church. You can learn so much by learning the history of where you've been.” – William Vanderbloemen RECOMMENDED RESOURCES Be the Unicorn: 12 Data-Driven Habits that Separate the Best Leaders from the Rest by William Vanderbloemen Einstein: His Life and Universe by Walter Isaacson Atomic Habits: An Easy & Proven Way to Build Good Habits & Break Bad Ones by James Clear Wisdom from Lyle E. Schaller: The Elder Statesman of Church Leadership by Lyle E. Schaller and Warren Bird

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership Podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Dan Iten are joined by Garrett Kell, who serves as the Lead Pastor of Del Ray Baptist Church in Alexandria, Virginia. During this podcast, he discusses his leadership journey and his role in revitalizing Del Ray Baptist Church. Garrett also shares insights into being a leader guided by God, the importance of relationships, and the use of social media to share the gospel in a relatable way. He also discusses his experiences in various leadership roles before and after becoming a Christian, emphasizing the value of stewarding influence and pointing people toward Jesus. Kell provides insights into church revitalization, focusing on the need for intentional change, preaching the Word, and prayer. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 83 “Be led by God before you lead others. Whatever area of influence God has placed you in, He's put you there to be faithful with whatever is entrusted. But it's always in the context of relationships. So whether you're a pastor or a plumber, whether you're a politician or whatever it is that you do, you should seek to be led by God so that as you're influencing others, you're influencing them toward Him, and not away from Him.” – Garrett Kell “In one sense, whether you're planting a church or revitalizing being a part of revitalization, you're pastoring. And the question is, do you want to make your own mess or clean up someone else's mess?” – Garrett Kell “Be careful with your words and seek to serve people, not use them as props.” – Garrett Kell “Disconnect from social media regularly to minimize distractions and be present in the moment.” – Garrett Kell “Part of being a pastor is being willing to be led by the Word and let God do the work, even when it's uncomfortable.” – Garrett Kell “I think serving and ministering out of a place of passion is important. Don't try to replicate something everybody else does.” – Garrett Kell The safest people for me love me and care about me. They want me to love God, love my family, and make it to heaven, and they are not impressed with me.” – Garrett Kell RECOMMENDED RESOURCES A Time to Mourn: Grieving the Loss of Those Whose Eternities Were Uncertain by Will Dobbie A Call to Prayer by J.C. Ryle Overcoming Apathy: Gospel Hope for Those Who Struggle to Care by Uche Anizor You're Not Crazy: Gospel Sanity for Weary Churches by Ray Ortlund, Sam Alberry, and Russell Moore Delighting in the Trinity: An Introduction to the Christian Faith by Michael Reeves No Greater Love; A Biblical Vision for Friendship by Rebecca McLaughlin Our Daily Bread App Speechify App

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership Podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Dan Iten are joined by Spence Shelton, the lead pastor of Mercy Church in Charlotte, North Carolina. Shelton discusses the challenges and mistakes he has made as a church planter and shares valuable insights and advice for leaders in the church and ministry context. He emphasizes the importance of humility, courage, and listening to others in leadership, drawing on his background in the business world to inform his approach to ministry. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 82 “Working in the marketplace really helped me to not only know the experience but also think well through the programming of our church and how are we equipping the saints for ministry where they are.” – Spence Shelton “There is a level of professionalism that I want to bring to our ministry, but not for the sake of looking polished. Rather, I want them to feel like they can trust their church and there's a level of professionalism that communicates trust.” – Spence Shelton “Find a relationship where there's somebody who's got some experience and let them call out what they see God doing in your life.” – Spence Shelton “One of the biggest lessons I've had to learn in my leadership as well as my character development is having to take my hands off of more and more things and trust the people that God has called into leading alongside me and under my leadership.” – Spence Shelton “Your job is to equip the saints for ministry and if you try and control the saints instead of equip them, that vision is never going to become a reality.” – Spence Shelton If I don't keep my fingers off what my staff is doing, they're going to feel like they're being micromanaged, and they can't lead. Plus, young leaders can't be developed if old leaders are gripping their ministry.” – Spence Shelton “Empower your people, equip them, and release them for ministry. Don't try and micromanage them and control them.” – Spence Shelton “A little bit of experience is way worse than no experience. A little bit of experience is way more dangerous than no experience.” – Spence Shelton “Be willing to fail because if you don't, you're not going to risk anything. People need vision and vision is a risk so be willing to fail. But, in all things, have humility.” – Spence Shelton “If you have humility, then you will take courageous risks that will be surrounded by wisdom because you'll be listening to others and everything else.” – Spence Shelton The biggest misconception I had about leadership was that my ideas would be enough. If I just had good ideas, that'd be enough. Now, ideas are important. Vision is important. But relationships matter. You will not get far just on an idea. Especially in ministry, you're not going to get far as a leader unless you're a servant leader.” – Spence Shelton RECOMMENDED RESOURCES The Emotionally Healthy Leader: How Transforming Your Inner Life Will Deeply Transform Your Church, Team, and the World by Peter Scazzero The Reformed Pastor: The Duties and Methods of Labors for the Souls of Men by Richard Baxter The Art of War by Sun Tzu The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution by Carl R. Trueman Dangerous Calling: Confronting the Unique Challenges of Pastoral Ministry by Paul David Tripp The Culture Code: The Secrets of Highly Successful Groups by Daniel Coyle

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership Podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Dan Iten are joined by Mark Gauthier, the Vice President of Cru, and Director of its U.S. operations. They discuss the mission and vision of Cru as a worldwide Christian ministry and Gauthier shares how Cru focuses on leadership and personal growth, encouraging young leaders to step out in faith and trust in God's provision. He also touches on his own experiences and pivotal moments in his life, highlighting upcoming opportunities for Cru at the World Cup in 2026 and the Open Window Partnership in the Middle East. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 81 “Readiness is important. Yes, we want to keep developing our skills, but I don't think it's ever a prerequisite for leadership.” – Mark Gauthier “God isn't necessarily asking you to take a job for the rest of your life. Just take the next right step.” – Mark Gauthier “Our leadership, wherever we are contributing, comes from within, and we lead out of who we are. I think the most significant person you must lead is yourself.” – Mark Gauthier “Sometimes the best indicator that you're doing the right thing is that it's going to cause your faith to grow.” – Mark Gauthier “There are 8 billion people in the world and every one of us is made uniquely in the image of God. That means that He knows that we all have a specific way that we connect with Him, and we're not all the same.” – Mark Gauthier “Note-taking is a form of me just expressing humility in that I want to learn.” – Mark Gauthier “Ask for feedback, it's so important. It's easy for our confidence to outstrip our character.” – Mark Gauthier “Leadership is going to be a walk of faith. Give yourself grace. Give yourself patience. God has got you, and He's going to give you what you need when you need it.” – Mark Gauthier RECOMMENDED RESOURCES God's Smuggler by Brother Andrew and John and Elizabeth Sherrill The Splendid and the Vile: A Saga of Churchill, Family, and Defiance During the Blitz by Erik Larson Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life by Henry Cloud and John Townsend Life Without Lack: Living in the Fullness of Psalm 23 by Dallas Willard Jesus Film Project

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership Podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Dan Iten are joined by Josh King, Lead pastor of Second Baptist in Conway, Arkansas. In the episode, Josh discusses his journey in ministry, starting at the age of 18, and emphasizes the importance of investing in established churches and valuing their resources and legacy. He highlights the need for young leaders to prepare themselves for leadership roles by immersing themselves in the environments and practices of their desired positions and learning from experienced leaders. Through his own experiences and mentorship, Josh encourages young leaders to recognize and affirm the callings of others, empowering them to step into their leadership roles with confidence. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 80 “When you see a calling within somebody and in their life, call it out. Giving that confidence to somebody is huge and affirming.” – Josh King “There is a big difference between saying someone is ready for ministry and simply telling them they are called.” – Josh King “Don't wait until you have the job. Start learning now by hanging out with people who are actively doing what you want to do and pick it up as you can.” – Josh King “A shift for me was not being bitter about not being the trendy, cool, leader with all these special giftings, but instead, just embracing whom God created me to be.” – Josh King “We can be so tempted to get go ahead and get to a decision, but things like struggling with a committee, or struggling with some deacons or some lay leaders, there's discipleship in that.” – Josh King “If you can see the beauty in the minutia and in the journey, I would have learned quicker to bring my eyes down a little bit and to see the now, not just the next.” – Josh King “We love leadership so much, yet over and over Scripture puts a greater emphasis on following in that, great leaders are actually just great followers. And God gives a following to those who are great followers.” – Josh King “If you worry more about following Christ and about submitting to the godly leaders in your life, the leadership will come later. That's how you get developed.” – Josh King “God is not going to hold you responsible for the mess that you found. He's just holding you responsible for what you do in it.” – Josh King RECOMMENDED RESOURCES The God Who Goes Before You: Pastoral Leadership as Christ-Centered Followership by Timothy Paul Jones and Michael S. Wilder Shepherd Leadership: Wisdom for Leaders from Psalm 23 by Blaine McCormick and David Davenport

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership Podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Dan Iten are joined by Vance Pitman, President of the Send Network, and former pastor of Hope Church in Las Vegas. This episode explores the theme of leadership in the context of church planting and ministry. Pitman shares his insights and experiences, emphasizing the importance of succession and focusing on the kingdom of God rather than personal success. He also discusses his journey as a church planter in Las Vegas and the unique challenges and opportunities he has faced in ministering to a non-Christian population. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 79 “Jesus focused more on succession than He did on success. And I think that's an issue in the church and American leadership in America. Today, we focus on success without even thinking about succession. Jesus was just the opposite. If you look at His public ministry, it was not even successful. 120 people after three and a half years wouldn't get him any book deal or invitation to speak at any conference, but that 120 became 120,000 because He focused on succession knowing it was bigger than just His life. I think that's something we got to get focused towards.” – Vance Pitman “The church is just a temporary tool established by Jesus for the expansion of the kingdom. The real end game is the kingdom of God around the throne of Jesus for every tribe, tongue, people, and nation.” – Vance Pitman “The primary call on my life is not to do something for Jesus, the primary call of my life is to be with Jesus. And everything Jesus wants to do through my life, He'll do out of the overflow of what He's doing in my life.” – Vance Pitman “The greatest thing you bring to your role as a leader is your personal intimate relationship with Jesus because everything that He wants to do through you as a leader, He'll do in you. The key to learning about being a leader is before I can be a leader, I must be a devoted follower. The key to my success as a leader is the devotion that I pursue Christ with as a devoted follower. And as a follower of Jesus, He then begins to lead through us in ways that we would never dream possible.” – Vance Pitman “As much as you schedule appointments, as much as you schedule time with the family as much as you schedule time to sleep at night, you have to build rest and whitespace or margin into your calendar.” – Vance Pitman “We will never, never grow healthy churches with unhealthy leaders.” – Lance Witt “We have neglected the fact that a pastor's greatest leadership tool is a healthy soul.” – Lance Witt “I think one of the reasons that the church in North America is struggling today is because we have spiritually unhealthy leadership. When you look at the kingdom of God, globally, there are only two continents in the world where Christianity is declining. One of them is North America, and North America has the most resources, the most buildings, the most budget, the most staff the most degrees, and the most education the most. Why are we not seeing the kingdom expand? I think it's directly related to the spiritual health of those who are leading.” – Vance Pitman “Starting a church service is not planting a church. Biblical missiology is that planting a church starts with the city. You engage that city with the gospel, you make disciples, and churches are born as a byproduct.” – Vance Pitman “Leadership is lonely, but it cannot be done alone. Leadership demands that we bring other people to the table to lead alongside us.” – Vance Pitman “You cannot lead what you do not live long term. You can fake it in the short run. Authenticity in leadership is important and if you're not living it, you won't be able to lead it over the long haul. – Vance Pitman RECOMMENDED RESOURCES Replenish: Leading from a Healthy Soul by Lance Witt Gentle and Lowly: The Heart of Christ for Sinners and Sufferers by Dane Ortlund The Stressless Life: Experiencing the Unshakable Presence...

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership Podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Dan Iten are joined by Tod Bolsinger, who is a speaker, executive coach, former pastor, and author who serves as associate professor of leadership formation and senior fellow for the De Pree Center for Leadership at Fuller Seminary. In this episode, Bolsinger discusses his background in leadership roles, including his experience in pastoral ministry and the pivotal moment that changed his approach to leadership. They also discuss the importance of adaptive leadership and building trust with followers, while also prioritizing the mission of organizations over personal recognition and success. This episode provides insights into Bolsinger's leadership journey and his approach to leading in a rapidly changing world. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 78 “You need trust for transformation, but trust is not true transformation. You being a highly trusted leader doesn't mean anybody's being changed. As a matter of fact, sometimes it means they will let you be the proxy for their formation and what you must learn is how to figure out how to invest that trust in calling people toward genuine transformation. That's what adaptive leadership is.” – Tod Bolsinger “The most important thing about our fruitfulness is that we are faithful to our mission. So obviously, the mission always wins. It's the mission, not the pastor, not the congregants, not the people the path the voices of the past, not the people. It's the mission.” – Tod Bolsinger “The hardest thing for me today is owning that the group is smarter than I am. But I'm not here to impress anybody. I'm here to express what God wants to do.” – Tod Bolsinger When you're experiencing conflict, what so many try to do is stop the conflict when what we need to do is learn from the conflict.” – Tod Bolsinger “The most soul-sucking thing for most leaders is not the challenges of the world, it's the resistance of your own people in your own congregation. It's your own team.” – Tod Bolsinger “Leaders are formed in the leading. So, if you're having a challenge right now, it's not that you messed up, missed a class, or didn't read a book. This is normal. It's normal for you because you became a leader right after you were good at something that was not leading.” – Tod Bolsinger “You become a leader in the crisis of leadership and the crucible of leadership. You must develop honest, vulnerable self-reflection. If you are only defending yourself, you will never be able to be open enough to the shaping that God wants to do in your life.” – Tod Bolsinger “A leader asking for loyalty is a sign of dysfunction almost every time.” – Tod Bolsinger RECOMMENDED RESOURCES Tempered Resilience: How Leaders Are Formed in the Crucible of Change by Tod Bolsinger Canoeing the Mountains: Christian Leadership in Uncharted Territory by Tod Bolsinger Thriving through Ministry Conflict: A Parable on How Resistance Can Be Your Ally by James P. Osterhaus, Joseph M. Jurkowski, and Todd A. Hahn

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership Podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Dan Iten are joined by Shane Pruitt, the national Next Gen director for the North American Mission Board. This episode discusses the importance of calling out future ministry leaders while highlighting the need for current leaders to focus on and mentor the next generation of leaders. Pruitt also shares his personal journey from a lost young man to a successful ministry leader and emphasizes the significance of guiding and mobilizing young adults and college students with the gospel of Jesus Christ. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 77 “I think we as current leaders have stopped on a large scale asking a whole generation to consider if God's calling them the ministry leadership.” – Shane Pruitt “A lot of times God will affirm that inside affirmation from outside affirmation from others.” – Shane Pruitt “Ministry calling is not something that you have to chase in a sense, it will chase you down. If God is calling you, He will give you opportunities to exercise that whatever that is.” – Shane Pruitt “Lead from the overflow of your own worship of King Jesus and lead from the overflow of your own proximity with the Holy Spirit.” – Shane Pruitt “The bride of Christ is beautiful, no matter what size. Sometimes there are large churches because they're faithful to the gospel. And then there are some churches that are normative, or what others may consider smaller, and they're faithful to the gospel. They're being salt and light in their community.” – Shane Pruitt “Our identity should not be wrapped up in results or in pleasing people but being obedient to LORD all the way to the end.” – Shane Pruitt RECOMMENDED RESOURCES Calling Out the Called: Discipling Those Called to Ministry Leadership by Shane Pruitt Spiritual Leadership: Principles of Excellence for Every Believer by J. Oswald Sanders Billy Graham: The Man I Knew by Greg Laurie

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership Podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Dan Iten are joined by Ben Stuart, the pastor of Passion City Church in Washington, DC. Ben shares his leadership journey and the different roles he has held in ministry, including his experience as a youth pastor and his current position at Passion City Church. He emphasizes the importance of consistent leadership, and the impact leaders have on those around them. Ben also shares insights on student leadership at Texas A&M University and the value of serving and following God's leading rather than seeking the spotlight. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 76 “Don't chase the spotlight. Don't chase the mic. Chase the Lord. And He's going to lead you where you need to go. You keep learning, you keep growing, you keep serving, and He's going to elevate you.” – Ben Stuart “What seems like a great moment of failure might be a step into your biggest victory.” – Ben Stuart “Sometimes God is going to make you sit on something for a long time to sharpen your vision of it.” – Ben Stuart “Just be faithful to the reveal that's in front of you. Don't try to play chess with your life. Sometimes you just must be faithful to what's in front of you.” – Ben Stuart “Don't hurry up and grab a thing, position, or title to validate your existence. That's such an unhealthy dangerous place to be. The older I get, the more grateful I am that God hid me from any spotlights and surrounded me with good mentors.” – Ben Stuart “You really need to make sure that you trust someone's character and that you have chemistry with another person before you put them in a position of leadership because your job as a leader is to protect the culture. Of course, you want one that's filled with grace and truth, humility, and a commitment to the Word of God. So, you've got to be careful whom you hand the mantle of leadership to.” – Ben Stuart RECOMMENDED RESOURCES 1776 by David McCullough Passion 2024 The Master Plan of Evangelism by Dr. Robert E. Coleman and Billy Graham

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership Podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Dan Iten are joined by David Platt, who is the Lead Pastor at McLean Bible Church and founder of Radical, who discusses his journey in ministry and the importance of intimacy with God. He emphasizes prioritizing a biblical gospel over an American one that values comfort, power, and politics. Platt's new book, "Don't Hold Back: Leaving Behind the American Gospel to Follow Jesus Fully," explores topics such as unity in the church, justice with the gospel, and the beauty of a multi-ethnic bride of Christ. Platt also shares a pivotal moment in his personal life where his wife's wake-up call led him to embrace spiritual disciplines such as meditation, prayer, fasting, exercise, and sleep. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 75 “I don't think it was just an American dream that was captivating our hearts, I think there's been an American gospel that's been consuming our lives.” – David Platt “A gospel that exchanges the biblical gospel that exalts Jesus above everything in the world for an American version of it prostitutes Jesus for the sake of comfort and power and politics and prosperity in our country. It has ravaged the church in many ways and our witness, not just in our country, but to the ends of the earth.” – David Platt “What frightens me is how successful in the eyes of the world that I could be in ministry and do it totally apart from intimacy with Jesus.” – David Platt “Don't try to manufacture a heart for ministry and miss a heart for Jesus or you'll miss the whole point.” – David Platt “Of course, it's unhelpful if you never act on anything and you're just always indecisive, but at the same time, be wise in learning and listening before deciding or acting to learn that balance or that tension of when it's healthy to move forward.” – David Platt That's part of what leadership is which is to shepherd people toward where God's calling you to go and not just telling them to go there and expecting it to happen.” – David Platt “Be afraid of leading apart from intimacy with Jesus.” – David Platt RECOMMENDED RESOURCES Don't Hold Back: Breaking Free from the American Gospel to Follow Jesus Fully by David Platt For the Love of God: A Daily Companion for Discovering the Riches of God's Word by D.A. Carson Waiting on God: A 31-Day Adventure into the Heart of God by Andrew Murray

In this episode of the 5 Leadership Questions podcast, Todd Adkins, Chandler Vannoy, and Dan Iten discuss the subject of how to conduct better, more effective meetings in whatever leadership setting you find yourself. Here are some of the questions asked during the episode: Why are meetings important for the local church? Why is it important to gather volunteers or others who aren't paid staff? What are some best practices or opposing views about getting the most out of your team meetings? What are some good filters on how to determine what a meeting is about and whether something should be a meeting at all? What are some real-life examples of leading a team meeting well? How are meetings conducted in an effective manner in a much smaller context? Are there any resources that would be helpful in learning how to conduct more effective meetings? BEST QUOTES “You should not have a meeting to decide on what the question or the point of the meeting is.” – Todd Adkins “If you've got layers of teams, those should be done from a development standpoint to check in and make sure somebody's continuing to grow, or you're able to address any issues.” – Todd Adkins “I think it's really important to let your participants know in advance what type of meeting that's going to be so they can they you know that you have an agenda and a purpose for it.” – Dan Iten “Part of the issue with most meetings and why people feel like they're a waste of time is they don't get anywhere; they don't move things forward.” – Todd Adkins “Nothing frustrates a participant more than leaving a meeting feeling clueless about next steps.” – Dan Iten “Everything is a coaching moment.” – Todd Adkins “Coaching is not just critique; it is also encouragement.” – Todd Adkins “I don't care whether you're in a big church or a small church, everybody has an opinion on the way they make decisions.” – Todd Adkins “The cardinal sin of the modern day is wasting someone's time.” – Todd Adkins “Don't try to do a team meeting just because you feel that need to gather everyone together.” – Dan Iten RECOMMENDED RESOURCES Death by Meeting: A Leadership Fable...About Solving the Most Painful Problem in Business by Patrick Lencioni The Coming Church Revolution: Empowering Leaders for the Future by Carl F. George 90 Second Leadership Starters

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Jamie Ivey who is the host of the Happy Hour with Jamie Ivey podcast. She is also the author of several books, including her most recent children's book God Made You to Be You. During their conversation, they discuss using our gifts for other people to see His works and give glory to God for them, being comfortable in who God made you to be, and how to learn more about what you are gifted for. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 74: "If I am struggling and I think my gifts are small today, I still can believe that God has given them to me so that people will see them and give glory to God.""God is bringing you up as a leader and He has prepared things for you to do.""I am not trying to put on a show, I am just trying to be myself and I think God has used that in a lot of people's lives.""I had to go through a lot of laying stuff down with God - insecurities and feeling not enough.""He has equipped those who He has called and I am going to keep walking forward.""You do bring something to the table, not because you are awesome, but because God has gifted you.""Practically, one of the best things for me has been to step in and serve. Sign up to teach a class and see what happens.""Sometimes we get in the wrong mindset of thinking that what someone else is doing equals success.""Success is individualized and so many times is a moving target.""I want to look at people I can learn from, but I don't want to chase their successes. I want to chase faithfulness and what God has called me to do." RESOURCES MENTIONED God Made You to Be You by Jamie Ivey You Be You by Jamie Ivey Unseen Leadership Episode 2: Jamie Ivey on Dealing With Your Past and Sharing Your Struggles With Others

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Derwin Gray who is the founding and lead pastor of Transformation Church. He is also the author of The Good Life and his new book, God, Do You Hear Me?. During their conversation, they discuss how prayer is the posture of our hearts, how prayer leads to better ministry, and how your prayer life affects how you preach. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 73: "Leadership is not telling people what to do. Leadership is embodying what you want others to become.""Prayer is a posture of our hearts to the divine presence of God in everything.""We often live out of our family of origin wounding rather than our new family of origin and our Father.""As a leader The Lord's Prayer not only shows us intimacy, but also The Lord's Prayer is God's will for our lives.""Weak people pray to a strong God. People who think they are strong don't pray to God.""Prayer is a posture of dependence and need.""We should never get good at ministry because we will get bad at prayer.""A prayerless preacher is a powerless preacher.""Don't mistake big crowds for big power.""If the redemptive work of Jesus is not the plumb line to everything, then it is not a Christian message.""Prayer is the heartbeat that pumps the blood out of the message.""Do not look for content to preach. Look for content to live." RESOURCES MENTIONED God, Do You Hear Me? by Derwin Gray The Good Life by Derwin Gray Unseen Leadership Episode 37: Derwin Gray on Focusing on Discipleship More Than Leadership Conformed to His Image by Kenneth Boa

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Sandra McCracken who is a prolific songwriter, modern day hymn writer, and record producer. She is also an author of her new book Send Out Your Light. During their conversation, they discuss how a song can connect people, that leadership can take on different forms based on personality types, and the two sides of ego and that challenge that causes. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 72: "I was pretty shy as a kid, and I didn't want to be upfront. Songwriting was a way by which I could contribute and put words to something we all shared and then it could become communal.""No matter what field you are in, we are all creative.""There are all these ways we express the creativity of God - for me it is songwriting.""We have a shared human experience because this is God's world and He has made things in a way that He can speak to us through these things in the same way.""Leadership can actually be a quiet thing. You don't have to be some big personality that wants to be upfront all the time.""Leadership that reflects your personality type could take a lot of different forms.""The way we manage our pride and humility is the biggest challenge of working together in groups and a team.""If you are starting something new, you can expect that growth is going to be uncomfortable sometimes." RESOURCES MENTIONED Send Out Your Light by Sandra McCracken Hearing the Call by Nicholas Wolterstorff Lament for a Son by Nicholas Wolterstorff Hearing God by Dallas Willard This Episode's Sponsor: Our sponsor, BELAY, is offering all our podcast listeners a free download of their resource, ‘5 Ways A Church Bookkeeper Can Transform Your Day,' which shares the five most positive changes that will come out of hiring a bookkeeper for your church.  Just text LIFEWAY to 55123 or visit belaysolutions.com/lifeway to download it for free today!

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Dr. Scott James who is a pediatric physician and an elder at The Church at Brook Hills in Birmingham, Alabama. He is also the author of two devotions, The Expected One and The Risen One. During their conversation, they discuss how leadership is letting others flourish, investing in a local church, and making a purposeful shift between work and home. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 71: "My biggest misconception was that leadership, in and of itself, is defined as an active, out front, action-oriented role.""If you are surrounded with good people, you don't have to drag them from up front. You support them from behind and let them thrive and flourish in what God has already gifted them to do.""Wherever you are, whatever role God has you in, invest your life in a good, local church.""Making that commitment to a local church then puts you in a position to serve other people.""When pivoting between things, I will stop, pray, and do something that is a very concrete shifting of gears.""Stay humble, keep your head down, do the work in front of you.""Most people that step into a leadership position have this expectation that they need to do grandiose things right out of the gate. I think plodding is the better course." RESOURCES MENTIONED The Expected One by Scott James The Risen One by Scott James Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortlund Every Moment Holy The Wolf Hall Trilogy by Hilary Mantel This Episode's Sponsor: Our sponsor, BELAY, is offering all our podcast listeners a free download of their resource, ‘5 Ways A Church Bookkeeper Can Transform Your Day,' which shares the five most positive changes that will come out of hiring a bookkeeper for your church.  Just text LIFEWAY to 55123 or visit belaysolutions.com/lifeway to download it for free today!

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Gregg Matte who is the senior pastor of Houston's First Baptist Church and the founder of Breakaway Ministries at Texas A&M University. He is also the author of many books including his upcoming devotional, Capture the Moment. During their conversation, they discuss leading through your God-given identity, the three-legged stool of calling, and the need for grace in learning. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 69: "Pray for leadership and wisdom every day.""I really value peace, and that is a tough one for a leader.""If I can be myself and walk with God, number one I am going to honor Him, and number two I am going to be able to lead.""Calling is: Do I want to? Do people respond when I do it? And does God want me to?""My high value of peace negated my need to be clear.""I want to make a good, clear decision, but I'd like to do it and keep the body of Christ unified.""Give your mornings to God, your afternoons to the church, and your evenings to your family.""Do not sell your family on the alter of ministry.""Realize you are continually learning, and, therefore, show yourself grace." RESOURCES MENTIONED Unstoppable Gospel by Gregg Matte Difference Makers by Gregg Matte Capture the Moment by Gregg Matte Spiritual Leadership by Oswald Sanders The Seven Money Types by Tommy Brown This Episode's Sponsor: Our sponsor, BELAY, is offering all our podcast listeners a free download of their resource, ‘5 Ways A Church Bookkeeper Can Transform Your Day,' which shares the five most positive changes that will come out of hiring a bookkeeper for your church.  Just text LIFEWAY to 55123 or visit belaysolutions.com/lifeway to download it for free today!

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Coach Mark Richt who is the former head football coach of the University of Georgia Bulldogs and the University of Miami Hurricanes and a longtime assistant coach for the Florida State University Seminoles. He is currently a football analyst for the ACC network. He is also the author of his new book, Make the Call. During their conversation, they discuss how to know if you are making good decisions, the importance of being genuine, and being a good steward of the influence that God has given you. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 69: "It's hard for faith and fear to live in the same mind.""My fear was stronger than my faith and God helped me grow my faith like I asked for.""If you are making a big decision and your goal is to try to please somebody or some group of people that can be dangerous.""My goal was to make a decision that God would be pleased with and my gauge on whether I did that or not was how I felt when I put my head on the pillow at night.""To try to change your personality to be somebody your not, first of all takes too much energy, and maybe more importantly, people under you are going to see you aren't genuine.""If you do something for someone who can't help you back it changes the way you look at life.""You can change any cycle that has been going on in your home.""Within a couple generations you might affect 50 to 100 people's lives because you decided you were going to man up.""One size doesn't fit all when it comes to capturing the heart of a player or a person, a wife or a child. They all feel love different ways.""God said, 'I will certainly be with you.' If you know that, then you can make it. If you make the mistake of thinking it's all you, that is when you get crushed." RESOURCES MENTIONED Make the Call by Mark Richt The 5 Love Languages by Gary Chapman Kingdom Man by Tony Evans This Episode's Sponsor: Our sponsor, BELAY, is offering all our podcast listeners a free download of their resource, ‘5 Ways A Church Bookkeeper Can Transform Your Day,' which shares the five most positive changes that will come out of hiring a bookkeeper for your church.  Just text LIFEWAY to 55123 or visit belaysolutions.com/lifeway to download it for free today!

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Mitchel Lee who is the lead pastor of Grace Community Church in Fulton, Maryland. He is also the author of Even If. During their conversation, they discuss how going through a wilderness period leads to better leadership, leading with courage and humility, and the slow work of building culture. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 68: "What I learned during that wilderness period was that charismatic people are a dime a dozen. It is people with character that stay and that the Lord uses.""Look at the biblical testimony. What leader do you see that doesn't go through the wilderness?""When we are cultivating that intimacy with the Lord before the valley comes, it makes us able to endure the valley in that transformative way.""There are no wasted years in the kingdom of God.""Do not underestimate the formative power of obscurity.""Lead out of your convictions.""It's so easy to try to think about how to lead so that each person feels placated. There is no win in that situation.""They don't have to be my best friends, but I do have a responsibility to stay relationally connected with my team.""If you want to build something that will outlast you, you have to build culture.""You have to have an urgency for the long haul." RESOURCES MENTIONED Even If by Mitchel Lee The Second Mountain by David Brooks In the Name of Jesus by Henri Nouwen Emotionally Healthy Discipleship by Peter Scazzero A Failure of Nerve by Edwin Friedman Life of the Beloved by Henri Nouwen This Episode's Sponsor: Our sponsor, BELAY, is offering all our podcast listeners a free download of their resource, ‘5 Ways A Church Bookkeeper Can Transform Your Day,' which shares the five most positive changes that will come out of hiring a bookkeeper for your church.  Just text LIFEWAY to 55123 or visit belaysolutions.com/lifeway to download it for free today!

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Jimmy Scroggins who is the lead pastor at Family Church in West Palm Beach, Fl. He is also the author of Turning Everyday Conversations into Gospel Conversations and Full Circle Parenting. During their conversation, they discuss discerning the Lord's call, leading through love or fear, and thinking holistically about balancing family relationships and work. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 67: "If you are in leadership, you can't lead without conflict. You are going to be frustrated from time to time wherever you are in leadership.""Learning the power of chemistry and culture in leadership was important.""If you don't have some kind of a plan, your head is going to be on a swivel all of the time.""Consider your life in seasons, and almost time block your commitments so that your head is not on a swivel all of the time.""You are going to be blown around by opportunities and you are never going to be able to give the right amount of energy to what God has in front of you right now today.""You've got to love people for them, not for what they do for you.""There are two levers you pull as a leader: you are either leading through love or you are leading through fear.""I undervalued the power of institutions and I undervalued the wisdom of veteran leaders.""As a Christian thinker, we should think of ourselves holistically all the time.""I hope that I have learned to lead out of a desire to love and serve others more than desire for other people to think I am somebody." RESOURCES MENTIONED Turning Everyday Conversations into Gospel Conversations by Jimmy Scroggins Full Circle Parenting by Jimmy Scroggins Good to Great by Jim Collins Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortlund Excellence Wins by Horst Schulze Downline Ministries' mission is to encourage a restoration of biblical discipleship in and through the local church by equipping men and women to know God's Word and make disciples.  The primary way we partner with churches is through the Downline Institute, a 9 month biblical discipleship training program that walks students through the Bible (Genesis-Revelation), biblical manhood/womanhood, and key discipleship lessons. Listeners can receive $100 off tuition cost by using the code LIFEWAY when you apply at www.downlineministries.com.

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Aaron Ivey who is pastor of worship at Austin Stone in Austin, Texas. He is also a songwriter and author. During their conversation, they discuss how feedback helps you grow, practical steps to setting vision, and wasting time with God and people. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 66: "We want our people to crave feedback, not avoid it.""All of us want to be great at what we are doing, nobody is just OK with being mediocre.""The culture and ethos of what a team is all starts with vision.""My biggest mistake early on was not realizing that setting the vision is on the leader." "Ministry and leadership can be so fast-paced that we forget to waste time with God.""If you can build a community around 'we don't need you, but we really want you' it fosters a sense of wanting to be involved.""Creatives do a good job at the creative part, but I also want them to want to get better in terms of leadership."Surround yourself with people that are going to push you forward and that have a spirit of optimism.""God doesn't need me to accomplish any of this stuff, but He wants me, so I am going to be along and still and quiet with Him.""You don't have to have it all together to be a great leader, but surround yourself with people to help you grow. RESOURCES MENTIONED This Episode's Sponsor: Unseen Leadership Episode 2: Jamie Ivey on Dealing with Your Past and Sharing Your Struggles With Others Wasting Time With God by Klauss Issler Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortlund Downline Ministries' mission is to encourage a restoration of biblical discipleship in and through the local church by equipping men and women to know God's Word and make disciples.  The primary way we partner with churches is through the Downline Institute, a 9 month biblical discipleship training program that walks students through the Bible (Genesis-Revelation), biblical manhood/womanhood, and key discipleship lessons. Listeners can receive $100 off tuition cost by using the code LIFEWAY when you apply at www.downlineministries.com.

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Miguel Nunez who is a pastor, medical doctor, and speaker. He is also the author of several books including his latest, Servants for His Glory. During their conversation, they discuss learning from past life experiences, how serving in a church impacts our lives, and how humility affects a person. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 65: "I can relate to people in a more compassionate way from what I learned from them.""I firmly believe that your wife has to be the first person to confirm your call to ministry.""Being the head of the house does not mean that your wife has to blindly follow whatever you are thinking. The Lord gave her to you so she can help you make decisions and bring a different perspective.""Don't think of your secular work as secular, it is sacred.""You should be looking for the opportunity to serve, that is how you identify your gifts and talents.""It was a mistake for me to assume that if you did everything right that everything would go well and no one would go against you.""I realized that a lot of the unrest within us is the consequence of not being gentle and lowly.""A humble person can be taught by people over him or under him. A humble person can be a team member. A humble person is sensitive to the voice of God." RESOURCES MENTIONED Servants for His Glory by Miguel Nunez Spiritual Leadership by Henry Blackaby and Richard Blackaby From and Before God by Sugel Michelen Lead by Paul Tripp WhatsApp Follow @PastorMNunez on Twitter Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortlund This Episode's Sponsor: Downline Ministries' mission is to encourage a restoration of biblical discipleship in and through the local church by equipping men and women to know God's Word and make disciples.  The primary way we partner with churches is through the Downline Institute, a 9 month biblical discipleship training program that walks students through the Bible (Genesis-Revelation), biblical manhood/womanhood, and key discipleship lessons. Listeners can receive $100 off tuition cost by using the code LIFEWAY when you apply at www.downlineministries.com.

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy is joined by Dr. Jason Allen the president of Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Kansas City, MO. He is also the author of many books including Succeeding at Seminary, Being a Christian, and Discerning Your Call to Ministry. During their conversation, they discuss understanding your unique gifting and calling, redeeming ambition, and contextual leadership. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 64: "There is more than one way to be a faithful, fruitful, effective pastor, leader, dad, coach, seminary president.""There is more than one way to faithfully lead.""How a man handles his own ambition is one of the most important aspects of his life.""If I were to hire a person and they struck me as fundamentally unambitious, that would be a problem. But if a person is just foaming at the mouth, that would signal the alarm at the other extreme.""You can be weakening your institution by chasing unhealthy goals.""We have to remember that leadership is always contextual.""If you find yourself brushing shoulders with leaders, ask them questions about what they are learning about leadership." RESOURCES MENTIONED Succeeding at Seminary by Jason Allen Being a Christian by Jason Allen Discerning Your Call to Ministry by Jason Allen Rescuing Ambition by Dave Harvey The Effective Executive by Peter Drucker The Craig Groeschel Leadership Podcast The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self by Carl Truman Churchill & Son by Josh Ireland This Episode's Sponsor: No matter how many people you have on staff at your church, there’s only so much you can accomplish in a day, right? Your church exists to serve your community, so the mission of your church and its staff is to reach as many people as you can. So BELAY, the innovative staffing solution with over 10 years of experience serving churches with virtual assistants, bookkeepers and social media strategists, is offering a free download of their resource, ‘Church Leaders: Essential Strategies to Unleash Productivity.’  Let BELAY help your church live its mission in your community by helping you juggle less and accomplish more. Visit belaysolutions.com/lifeway for your free download.

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Horst Schulze the former president and co-founder of the Ritz-Carlton Hotel Company and founder of the Capella Hotel Group. He is also the author of Excellence Wins. During their conversation, they discuss defining ourselves with excellence, making employees feel like a part of the organization, and being sincere in our leadership. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 63: "Excellence is never an accident. It's always the result of high intent and hard work.""Excellence is doing our very best in the functions that we fulfill in our work.""It's not the product, it's more the relationship: how you are treated, how you were respected.""You have to give people a place where they feel a part.""Leadership creates an environment in which the employees want to do it and feel a part of it.""That is a serious issue with managers: moving from problem to solution instead of moving from problem to analysis to test to solution, and using the people connected with the process to do that.""The urgent thing has to be done, you can't let the fire burn around you, but after you are finished, how do you make sure the fire never happens again?""I cannot love my neighbor as myself, but I can try.""If I can identify their talent and help them to be successful in a way they can apply the talent, that's how I want to select employees.""From today on, know that in a new role as a leader you have the honor of impacting the life of people positively." RESOURCES MENTIONED Excellence Wins by Horst Schulze 7 Habits of Highly Effective People by Stephen Covey HorstSchulze.com This Episode's Sponsor: No matter how many people you have on staff at your church, there’s only so much you can accomplish in a day, right? Your church exists to serve your community, so the mission of your church and its staff is to reach as many people as you can. So BELAY, the innovative staffing solution with over 10 years of experience serving churches with virtual assistants, bookkeepers and social media strategists, is offering a free download of their resource, ‘Church Leaders: Essential Strategies to Unleash Productivity.’  Let BELAY help your church live its mission in your community by helping you juggle less and accomplish more. Visit belaysolutions.com/lifeway for your free download.

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Tyler Reagin founder and CEO of The Life-Giving Co., former president of Catalyst, and author of The Life-Giving Leader and his latest, Leading Things You Didn't Start. During their conversation, they discuss calling out uniqueness in leaders, moving from self-awareness to self-management, and honoring the past as a new leader. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 61: "We spend our days chasing other people's uniqueness.""If we don't believe that how He uniquely made us matches what He called us to do, that is a bad theology.""Do not spend your days trying to become someone your not. Become confident in that uniqueness God has for you.""My credibility is what gets me in the room. It's my EQ that keeps me in the room.""You have to move from self-awareness to self-management.""The more successful in ministry you become, the more isolated you become.""If you come in there and you do not honor what they've been through, what they've been working on, where they've come from, you will lose influence from the moment go.""Honor the things you want to celebrate so that they understand what you value.""Every day I want to find somebody I can celebrate and somebody I can bring life to.""Become proud of how God uniquely made you and it will blow your mind how He is going to call you to stuff when you trust that calling." RESOURCES MENTIONED The Life-Giving Co. Catalyst The Life-Giving Leader by Tyler Reagin Leading Things You Didn't Start by Tyler Reagin Emotional Intelligence 2.0 by Travis Bradberry and Jean Greaves 10Ten Project This Episode's Sponsor: No matter how many people you have on staff at your church, there’s only so much you can accomplish in a day, right? Your church exists to serve your community, so the mission of your church and its staff is to reach as many people as you can. So BELAY, the innovative staffing solution with over 10 years of experience serving churches with virtual assistants, bookkeepers and social media strategists, is offering a free download of their resource, ‘Church Leaders: Essential Strategies to Unleash Productivity.’  Let BELAY help your church live its mission in your community by helping you juggle less and accomplish more. Visit belaysolutions.com/lifeway for your free download.

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Jon Tyson who serves as Lead Pastor at Church of the City in New York and author of several books, including his latest, Beautiful Resistance. During their conversation, they discuss devotion to prayer, cultivating love, and balancing the tension of compassion and conviction. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 61: "I think a lot of leaders are doing the best they can in increasingly complex situations, and none of us have the training for the drama we are dealing with.""I was looking at the outcome of people in history who's fruit I wanted to see God do again, and then I looked at their lifestyle and wanted to imitate that.""I have sought to faithfully steward that very rare culture of revival that brought me to Christ.""So often we rarely address the invisible evil, and we rely again on human technique and human systems to solve satanic problems.""If you try and get the reward in public, you will have no power in the secret place.""You pray because you love God, you want to be with Him, you want to know Him.""I have three prayer movements every day - one of intimacy, one of interaction, one of intercession.""Jesus has to be our leadership model.""If you get all compassion and no conviction, you don't have Christianity. If you get all conviction and no compassion, you don't have Christianity. It's both of those things together.""No generation has personally witnessed this level of sin and brokenness firsthand.""Build your leadership on prayer.""Favor is when you reap what you didn't sow, and if God trusts you, you will have His favor and there is no substitute for the favor of God on your leadership." RESOURCES MENTIONED Beautiful Resistance by Jon Tyson A Resilient Life by Gordon McDonald This Episode's Sponsor: No matter how many people you have on staff at your church, there’s only so much you can accomplish in a day, right? Your church exists to serve your community, so the mission of your church and its staff is to reach as many people as you can. So BELAY, the innovative staffing solution with over 10 years of experience serving churches with virtual assistants, bookkeepers and social media strategists, is offering a free download of their resource, ‘Church Leaders: Essential Strategies to Unleash Productivity.’  Let BELAY help your church live its mission in your community by helping you juggle less and accomplish more. Visit belaysolutions.com/lifeway for your free download.

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Michael Hyatt who is the former chairman and CEO of Thomas Nelson Publishers and author of many books including Win at Work and Succeed at Life. During their conversation, they discuss self leadership, how vision drives results, and adding constraints around your work to achieve more. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 60: "I was on the verge of losing my family and compromising what were my most important priorities all on the altar of my ambition.""If you can't lead yourself, you don't really have the right or the capacity to lead anybody else.""If you are leading people, you are taking them somewhere, and if you don't know where you are taking them, you aren't really qualified to be a leader.""Once you have vision, then you can create alignment.""Clarity of vision drives an acceleration of results.""One of the things that is critically important for success is likability.""Once you've hit about 55 hours per week, you've maxed out your productivity. And worse than that you blow out some other really important things in your life like your health and your most important relationships.""Life is more than work and you will actually achieve more by doing less if you put some constraints around your work and force yourself not to work all the time.""Our thinking really does shape the outcomes in our lives." RESOURCES MENTIONED Win at Work and Succeed at Life by Michael Hyatt and Megan Hyatt Miller The Vision-Driven Leader by Michael Hyatt Living Forward by Michael Hyatt and Daniel Harkavy You Are the Placebo by Dr. Joe Dispenza This Episode's Sponsor: No matter how many people you have on staff at your church, there’s only so much you can accomplish in a day, right? Your church exists to serve your community, so the mission of your church and its staff is to reach as many people as you can. So BELAY, the innovative staffing solution with over 10 years of experience serving churches with virtual assistants, bookkeepers and social media strategists, is offering a free download of their resource, ‘Church Leaders: Essential Strategies to Unleash Productivity.’  Let BELAY help your church live its mission in your community by helping you juggle less and accomplish more. Visit belaysolutions.com/lifeway for your free download.

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Jonathan Pokluda who is the lead pastor of Harris Creek Baptist Church in Waco, Texas and author of Outdated. During their conversation, they discuss long obedience, how selfish ambition is not fulfilling, and how healthy leadership requires service. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 59: "We underestimate what we can do with long obedience in the same direction and we way overestimate what we can do in a short period of time.""We must learn as leaders delayed gratification and faithfulness.""Every moment is training for a future moment.""So much of faithfulness starts with doing the things that nobody wants to do.""If I am preaching or writing books or doing podcasts for any reason other than the renown and fame of Jesus Christ, it is not going to satisfy me.""There is always selfish ambition sitting right beside kingdom ambition.""I'm constantly tempted to think that leadership is all about authority.""Anytime we see leadership in the Scriptures it is really defined as service.""The biggest enemy to our quiet time is our iPhone.""I think one day we will be face-to-face with Jesus and we will see our greatest moments of productivity were deep contemplative prayers.""Your greatest way to be self-aware is to understand the thoughts you are feeding." RESOURCES MENTIONED Outdated by Jonathan Pokluda Bible App by Olive Tree Love Does by Bob Goff This Episode's Sponsor: No matter how many people you have on staff at your church, there’s only so much you can accomplish in a day, right? Your church exists to serve your community, so the mission of your church and its staff is to reach as many people as you can.So BELAY, the innovative staffing solution with over 10 years of experience serving churches with virtual assistants, bookkeepers and social media strategists, is offering a free download of their resource, ‘Church Leaders: Essential Strategies to Unleash Productivity.’ Let BELAY help your church live its mission in your community by helping you juggle less and accomplish more. Visit belaysolutions.com/lifeway for your free download.

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Mike Kelsey are joined by Rich Villodas who is the author of The Deeply Formed Life and lead pastor at New Life Fellowship in New York City. During their conversation, they discuss the integration between soul and role, the balance of reading and experience, and our ability to grow in self-differentiation. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 58: "Leadership must be this integration between soul and role.""Don't aspire to a role that your soul is not ready for.""Just filling the position because it needs to be filled can lead to a lot of heartache.""I must recognize certain conversations require particular spaces in order to shepherd people well.""Find yourself among people for enough time and you will come across lots of things to help you in your experience - conflicts, disagreements, criticism.""I am trying to become aware of the way these misconceptions shape the way I see myself and shape the way I lead others.""Self-differentiation at its core is about remaining close to myself and remaining close to others, especially in times of high anxiety, and resisting the polar opposite pull of either cutting people off or finding ourselves enmeshed in them.""How do I lead people that disagree with me? By first tending to what is happening inside of me.""We need to hold these things together if we are going to be faithful in the particular generational social and cultural moment we find ourselves in.""We have often been discipled into superficiality." RESOURCES MENTIONED The Deeply Formed Life by Rich Villodas Generation to Generation by Edwin Friedman A Failure of Nerve by Edwin Friedman The Pastor as a Minor Poet by Craig Barnes

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Mike Kelsey who is the lead pastor of preaching and culture at McLean Bible Church in the Washington, D.C., area. During their conversation, they discuss the process of growing as a young leader, finding the balance of an internal and external call, and evaluating and examining social media in our lives. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 57: "God began to show me, 'You have a passion for communication and you have a passion for truth and that is for a reason.'""Your character, the inner life, has to be stronger than your external responsibilities or reputation or else you will get crushed.""I love seeing leaders who are young and don't know what they are doing and giving them a sandbox to play in because God wants to do big things through them.""God I know you have me here for a reason and there is a responsibility and a stewardship that comes with that influence.""You may have gifting, and you don't always have to wait for somebody else to validate that, but that is one of God's designs for the local church.""There is a benefit in being rooted in a local church where other brothers and sisters in Christ, pastors, and elders are able to say they see that in you.""I love team leadership. I love having some folks that fill in my gaps and I can help fill in their gaps and we sharpen each other.""I didn't make a lot of big leadership mistakes in my early days, but honestly I think that was my biggest mistake.""You are where you are for a reason, and, under authority, take some risks for good reason, to make the glory of God known.""You don't realize how much your feed is actually controlling the feed in your mind.""It's not always wise to just be an open book." RESOURCES MENTIONED The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer The Libby App Deep Work by Cal Newport

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Lisa Whittle who is a sought after Bible teacher, founder of Ministry Strong, and host of the popular Jesus Over Everything podcast. She is the author of seven books, including her newest Bible study release Jesus Over Everything. During their conversation, they discuss what it means to be a natural-born leader, needing a revival of the soul, and the benefits of being patient in the wait. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 56: "I never meant to be in these roles that I am in today, I just sort of led with my gifts where I was and it took me where I am.""One of the most important lessons to me was that their response is not your responsibility.""One mistake I made was wasting time worrying about some fake arrival point.""I did not realize the value of community.""In 2012, I was going to quit everything - writing, speaking, my blog - and I thought to myself, why can't I?""The Lord really spoke to my heart and gave me a picture of revival.""If you leave Jesus, your leadership is doomed.""It's really about any books that drive you closer to the Father, because that is the relationship that is going to hold your leadership together.""Some of the most powerful ministry I have ever done has been in a room with five people.""Making plans isn't a bad thing, but hold them loosely because God will likely change them.""Wait with belief that God is going to do something amazing with your life, but you are not on pause. There is a world in front of you that needs to be served.""It is to your benefit to be exercising your gifts and practicing.""Your leadership will only be as good as your relationship with Jesus is." RESOURCES MENTIONED Jesus Over Everything by Lisa Whittle Jesus Over Everything Podcast Ministry Strong Revolution by George Barna The Wounded Healer by Henri Nouwen Called Creatives

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Bruce Ashford who is a Professor of Theology and Culture at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. He has also worked on the mission field in over 40 countries, and the author of multiple books, including Letters to an American Christian, One Nation Under God, and his latest, How to Survive an Election Season. During their conversation, they discuss being shaped by and serving institutions, learning to move past unfair criticism that comes with being a leader, and stepping up during moments of crisis. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 55: "It is quite the change from leading a movement of your own that you and your friends started moving into an institution that has history, tradition, rules, and an authority hierarchy.""Institutions are good things and they should shape us.""We really ought to not say everything we want to say sometimes. We need institutions to shape us.""If you are going into a leadership role, there will be naysayers and critics.""When I was younger, I thought that if I was a good leader I would get universal acclaim.""If you are really leading out you will get some serious criticism, much of it will be unfair or inaccurate, and you have to learn to deal with it and move past it.""If your leadership role at a given institution is far and away the most important thing in your life, maybe rethink your life a little bit.""Unless it's a biography of Jesus Christ, you are dealing with a deeply flawed human being and you don't want to imitate everything that person says or does.""All of the people we admire, if they have done something big in life as a leader, they have probably also messed up big time.""It's really during moments of crisis and criticism that as a leader you've really got to step up and show resolve and humility." RESOURCES MENTIONED Letters to an American Christian by Bruce Ashford One Nation Under God by Bruce Ashford How to Survive an Election Season by Bruce Ashford A Time to Build by Yuval Levin Churchill by Paul Johnson Winston Churchill: Walking With Destiny by Andrew Roberts The Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self by Carl Trueman

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Trevin Wax who is senior vice president of Theology and Communications at LifeWay Christian Resources. He is also the general editor of The Gospel Project, and the author of multiple books, including Rethink Your Self, This Is Our Time, and Gospel Centered Teaching. During their conversation, they discuss how to produce high-level content, the cultural trends for young leaders in the years to come, and how to create a habit of writing. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 54: “We should first look up to God to see who we were created to be, then look around to the people of God that we belong to, then last we should look to yourself to understand who we are.” “God doesn’t just lead us to the valley. He leads us through it.” “Indecisiveness can be very counterproductive in leadership for your young leaders.” “It takes a certain level of mental energy to consistently be creative over the long haul.” “If you want to write consistently, then you need to learn to write and not be afraid of your reader.” “You need to write to serve the reader.” “If you want to write constantly, you have to read constantly.” “One of the misconceptions I had earlier on was that once you step into greater leadership was that the weight of the execution work you have to do would get easier. But it doesn’t.” “In a remote work environment, it will be harder for young leaders to stand out and rise up in an organization.” RESOURCES MENTIONED Rethink Yourself by Trevin Wax 4 Disciplines of Execution by Sean Covey The Accidental Creative by Todd Henry Strong and Weak by Andy Crouch The Last Lion: Winston Spencer Churchill: Defender of the Realm by William Manchester

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Christy Nockels who is a wife, mother, podcaster, and worship leader for global movements like Passion Conferences and IF:Gathering. And she is also now an author with her debut book The Life You Long For. During their conversation, they discuss how to rest in God as a leader, how to protect ourselves from comparison, and the benefits of collaboration in leadership. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 53: “I was living for God, but I found myself in a place where I didn’t know how to live from God.” “We need to learn to live from a heart of rest, and when I say rest, I don’t just mean weekly Sabbath. I mean a soul rest.” “Resting in God is a posture of trusting God to make a way for us and not hustling for it on our own.” “When you live from your own belovedness, you lead from a place for contending and fighting for it in others.” “As leaders, it is easy to “yes” ourselves into exhaustion.” “I’ve tried to view social media as a place of serving others instead of feeding my soul.” “It is a gift to be able to collaborate with others.” RESOURCES MENTIONED The Pursuit of God by A.W. Tozer Abiding in Christ by Andrew Murray The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer The Birkman Personality Test

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Andre Gray who is a Congregation Pastor at the Austin Stone Community.  During their conversation, they discuss how our gifts can outpace our character, leadership lessons that Andre learned from the military, and the difference between relational leadership and hierarchical leadership. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 52: “My gifts as a young kid were so forward facing that they pulled me into rooms and doors that quite honestly, I didn’t have any business being in at that point.” “There are times where your giftings will take you where your character cannot sustain you.” “If we are going to be a leader in the kingdom of God, we have to be willing to dig into the deep, dark places of my soul and really deal with my flaws and lean into my weakness and trust in the Lord.” “Cancel culture is not a thing with the Lord. God can redeem our story.” “As a leader, I want to be supportive of the people I’m leading. I don’t want to use people to get tasks done. I want to use tasks to get people done.” “Anyone going into leadership for the very first time needs to relentlessly commit to the development of their character and learn to lead with all humility.” RESOURCES MENTIONED Extreme Ownership by Jocko Willink Leadership as an Identity by Crawford W. Loritts When by Daniel Pink Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortlund

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by JT English who is the lead pastor at Storyline Church in Colorado. Before that, he was a pastor at the Village Church where he led The Village Institute. He also co-hosts the Knowing Faith podcast and is the author of his new book Deep Discipleship. During their conversation, they discuss how to grow in discipleship, how to get constant feedback from those you are leading, and what it was like taking over a church in the midst of a global pandemic. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 51: “We should not have to leave the church in order to lead in the church.” “I had this conviction that what if we were to take the best that a seminary has to offer and offer it to every day Christians in the local church. Because Christians really want to grow.” “We typically ask the question, “What do disciples want,” instead of asking the better questions of, “What do disciples need.”” “It is never too early to start reading the Bible.” “There is nothing more off-putting about a leader than overconfidence. If we are calling ourselves Christian leaders, the only leader who could have been overconfident is Jesus. That’s not how Jesus leads.” “If your priority list is your email, then you are probably not leading well. You are being led by your email.” “Leaders need to maintain a soft heart and a firm spine.” RESOURCES MENTIONED Deep Discipleship by J.T. English Dwell App Frederick Douglass: Prophet of Freedom by David W. Blight

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Dianne Jago who is a military wife and mother of three residing in Pensacola, Florida. She is the founder and chief editor of Deeply Rooted Magazine, where she works with her team to encourage, inspire, and equip women to be deeply rooted in Christ alone. She is also the author of A Holy Pursuit .  During their conversation, they discuss how to lead a remote team, how to bring a dream to a reality, and how to lean into our weakness as leaders. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 50: “When leading a remote team, I learned we had to clearly communicate the vision and set clear expectations.” “I needed to make sure I was leading my kids and leading in my home first before my business.” “Oftentimes leaders desire influence and they want to change the world, and that really starts in the home.” “I wish early on I had the ability to delegate. I was a perfection, and now I’m a recovering perfection.” “God’s grace is sufficient and his power is made perfect in our weakness, even in our weakness as leaders.” RESOURCES MENTIONED Deeply Rooted Magazine A Holy Pursuit by Dianne Jago Discipline by Elisabeth Elliot Checklist Manifesto by Atul Gawande Do More Better: A Practical Guide to Productivity by Tim Challies Be Still My Soul by Elisabeth Elliot

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Barnabas Piper who is on staff at Immanuel Church in Nashville, TN. He is also the author of The Pastor's Kid and Help My Unbelief AND He co-hosts the popular Happy Rant podcast. Exciting news…..he also just released a new book called Hoping for Happiness. During their conversation, they discuss how to wait on the Lord in your work, growing in humility as a leader, and  living up to expectations as a pastor’s kid. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 49: “Happiness is not promised to us in our work. Go back and read Genesis 3. Genesis 3 basically says our work is going to be a pain, often.” “Keep the room clean where you are until God opens the door to the next place.” “Every time I have ever tried hard to change my work situation, I’ve screwed it up. When I’ve decided to faithfully work where I am and God handles the transition, I’ve been put in a spot that is clearly the best spot for me to be in.” “To be humble takes a profound amount of security in the Lord. Because you are volunteering to be lower than other people.” “More is expected of leaders. That’s part of the job.” “I liked passing the buck and taking the credit, which is the opposite of leadership.” “If we are marked by the things that we are trying to avoid, we are aimless.” RESOURCES MENTIONED 5LQ Episode 1: John Piper Hoping for Happiness by Barnabas Piper Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortlund Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning The Son by Philipp Meyer Working by Robert A. Caro

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Dorena Williamson who is a proud mother, a passionate teacher, and a devoted bridge-builder. She is also the author of ColorFull, ThoughtFull, and GraceFull, which are children’s books that celebrate God’s diverse kingdom. During their conversation, they discuss what it means to be a bridge-builder, the necessity of listening and learning from others, and how to focus on pleasing God more than people. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 48: “Oftentimes, bridgebuilders get walked on because that is what bridges were designed for.” “The ultimate bridge builder was Jesus the Messiah. He gave his life to create a bridge for us to God.” “We must posture ourselves as listeners and learners.” “We need to do what we are called to do and that is not to please people, that is to aim to please God.” “Support and loyalty are not always the same thing.” “If someone is more loyal to me than they are to Christ, then I have failed them.” RESOURCES MENTIONED Designed to Lead by Eric Geiger and Kevin Peck Healing Racial Trauma: The Road to Resilience by Sheila Wise Rowe

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Matt Chandler who is the lead pastor of teaching at The Village Church in Dallas, Texas, and the president of Acts 29. He has authored several books, including To Live Is Christ to Die Is Gain, Creature of the Word, and The Explicit Gospel. During their conversation, they discuss how Matt was diagnosed with brain cancer as a young leader, how to understand yourself as a leader, and how to create an ideal week and schedule your days. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 47: “I’m all gas and no brakes. So I needed some brakes around me. Or we were going to do 6,000 things and none of them well.” “As leaders, we need to flank our weakness and bolster our strengths with the people around us.” “The biggest pivotal moment that changed my life was when I got brain cancer, and honestly, it was both the scariest and coolest season of my life.” “My heart when coming to the Village Church was that I didn’t want to make it my church.” “What’s going on inside of me is a question leaders don’t pay attention to often enough.” “Without repetition, there is no formation.” - Jon Tyson “As a young leader, I had the misconception that people would just do what I said.” “There is a game we play of winning over people and learning to take an idea from our head and to its inception and not destroy people along the way.” RESOURCES MENTIONED Essentialism: The Disciplined Pursuit of Less by Greg McKeown The Ride of a Lifetime by Robert Iger

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Alexandra Hoover who is a wife, mother, Bible teacher, and writer. She has the privilege of serving on staff at Transformation Church as the Assistant Director of Equipping. She’s passionate about communicating the love of Jesus, whether it be through writing or speaking. During their conversation, they discuss how to lead up to older leaders, how to lead those who have hurt you, and how to root our identity in Christ, not our role. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 46: “Often as leaders, especially young leaders in our culture, we think success is microwavable.” “Our identity has to be so rooted in Christ and who he is so that changes and transitions and challenges don’t throw us but grow us.” “We should be working from a place of love not for a place of love.” “We need to constantly be asking ourselves, “Am I being pushed by fear or pulled by love?” “When I think about leadership, I think about humility.” “We must practice humility even with those who are wrong and even with those who hurt you.” “The biggest flex in the kingdom of God is when you are able to love those who have hurt you.” “Remember that your identity is not defined by your role.” RESOURCES MENTIONED The Next Right Thing by Emily P. Freeman How to Lead When You are Not in Charge by Clay Scroggins When to Walk Away: Finding Freedom from Toxic People by Gary Thomas

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Ben Mandrell who is the former Senior Pastor of Inglewood Baptist Church and the founding planter of Storyline Fellowship in Arvada, CO. He is now the President and CEO of LifeWay Christian Resources. During their conversation, they discuss the link between teaching and leadership, productivity tips to stay organized as a leader, and Ben’s transition from church planting to LifeWay. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 45: “A mark of a great leader is that we are always learning and growing and nobody has it all together.” “Words create worlds.” “The words you choose to communicate create culture more than anything else.” “As we become more churchy, we become less interesting to the unchurched.” “Child-like faith is something that we never graduate from.” “Your head is for having ideas, not for holding them.” “The more clear and the more strong and more bold you are in a general direction, the more haters you will have.” “Don’t be overconfident in what you can accomplish in a year, and don’t be under confident in what you can accomplish in five years.” RESOURCES MENTIONED Great Leader, Great Teacher by Gary J. Bredfeldt Getting Things Done by David Allen When by Daniel Pink Sacred Pathways by Gary Thomas

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Brad Barnett who is the Senior Manager of Events for LifeWay Students. He helps lead and oversee over 125,000 students and kids that come to camp every summer. During their conversation, they discuss how to understand yourself as a leader, how to explore your calling, and how to lead as an introvert. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 44: “Leadership intentionality with others trumps any kind of leadership knowledge.” “We can’t lead everyone the same. We have to lead people differently along the way.” “God is more concerned about the work that he is doing in us than the work he is doing through us.” “Leadership is hard. There is a heaviness and a burden you are signing up to carry on behalf of those you lead.” “God places unique things in our lives that lead to opportunities that wouldn’t be there otherwise.” “Giving feedback is caring. Withholding feedback is uncaring.” RESOURCES MENTIONED Every Good Endeavor by Timothy Keller How to Lead When You are Not in Charge by Clay Scroggins

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter look back on the first year of the Unseen Leadership podcast and reflect on what they have learned while interviewing 40+ leaders. During their conversation, they answer the following questions: What are 2-3 of the most impactful quotes that we have heard on the podcast? After 40+ interviews, what are 2-3 words or ideas that have stuck out the most to you? What has been your personal favorite moment on this podcast? What were 2-3 of the most interesting stories you have heard on the podcast? What was the most impactful book you have read that was discussed on the podcast? If you could grab coffee with 1 guest that we have had on, who would it be and why? Who is your bucket list guest? Meaning if we could get one guest on here, who would it be? Which question is your favorite that we ask? YOUNG LEADER LIBRARY GIVEAWAY: In connection with this podcast episode, we are giving away a young leader library that includes 15 of the most recommended books from year 1 of the podcast. To enter the giveaway, just share about the Unseen Leadership podcast on Instagram through a regular post or on your story and make sure to tag @unseenleadership. When you share, you’ll be entered to win the Young Leader Library, which is valued at over $175.

In this episode of the Unseen Leadership podcast, Chandler Vannoy and Josh Hunter are joined by Dean Inserra who is the founding and lead pastor of City Church in Tallahassee, FL, and the author of The Unsaved Christian. During their conversation, they discuss the journey of church planting, how to grow in self-awareness, and how to determine if you should go to seminary. QUOTES FROM EPISODE 42: “We are all replaceable and don't need to have a chip on our shoulder.” “I think you need to get seminary out of your system as quickly as possible.” “I had to learn there’s different ways to lead different types of people.” “I think self awareness is everything. On our staff, we call it feel.” “I think everything goes back to how you view God.” “My biggest misconception was that I would have instant credibility with those older than me.” “There’s going to be a lot of guys who are chasing a lot of stuff. Let it come to you instead of going out and looking for it.” “Focus on those who are in front of you, not just what is next.” “Take God really seriously and not yourself.” "I would encourage those in leadership to not read more leadership books than doctrine and theology books." RESOURCES MENTIONED The Unsaved Christian by Dean Inserra Without a Doubt by Dean Inserra The Holiness of God by R.C. Sproul Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortlund