Podcasts about Conway

Internationally respected law consultant Michael Conway, previously serving on the House Judiciary Committee, is advising an esteemed New York Judge, Arthur Engoron, to be cautious with his expressions and conduct during the ongoing trial of ex-President Donald Trump. This case, a $250 million civil fraud lawsuit involving Trump, is often compared to the infamous 'Chicago 7' trial. Conway references this similarity to emphasize that it may be a deliberate strategy by Trump to agitate Engoron in a similar fashion as the defendants did to Judge Julius Hoffman in the 'Chicago 7' case, as there already appears to be evidence to support the plaintiff's fraud claim. Writing for NBC's sister news organization MSNBC, Conway observed that Engoron frequently butts heads with not only Trump's legal squad but also the former president himself. He raised the point that the staunch language utilized by Engoron isn't necessarily an issue if its use can be justified, but in escalating the situation, there are potential risks. Prominent among these is the possibility of an appellate court questioning his judgement, fueled by assertions from Trump's counsel asserting judicial bias evident from the judge's strong commentary. Engoron's responses in the New York courtroom were robust when reviewing Trump's legal strategies, describing them as 'plain sophistry', 'laughable', 'spurious arguments', and 'severe' in his summary judgement.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

"I feel like black women have been, and always will be, the closest approximation of Jesus Christ's salvific work, in our lives." Shantell Hinton Hill is an engineer, pastor, and poet that centers her justice work around Black Feminism(s) and Womanism. She tells stories of finding her voice and the way black women in her life have uplifted, empowered, and resurrected her. Now it is her goal to live out this empowering work and way of life. Shantell connects this work with the women of the Bible who were unnamed, voiceless, yet acted in faith and power. She describes how Black feminism(s) and Womanism point out the way intersectional oppressions may be operating throughout scripture. We hear one of her breathtaking poems from her book, “Black girl magic and other elixirs,” which problematizes how Christians think of suffering, death, and crucifixion. We finish by hearing about the voices who have shaped Shantell's Black feminism(s), her faith, and her writing, as well as encouragement for those who don't know what to do with their faith in the face of all the suffering in our world. Guest's Full Bio: Shantell Hinton Hill is the ultimate Renaissance woman. An engineer turned pastor, Shantell situates her work at the intersections of social justice, public theology, and Black feminism/womanism. A native of Conway, Arkansas, Shantell is married to Rev. Jeremy Hill. They recently welcomed their first child, Sophie June, to their growing family. Shantell obtained a Master of Divinity from Vanderbilt Divinity School. She also earned a Bachelor of Science in Electrical Engineering from Colorado State University. She is a proud member of Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc. and the National Society of Black Engineers. She is also an ordained minister in the Christian Church (Disciples of Christ). Her vocational experiences include work as a Process Control Engineer, a Bible teacher, and as Assistant University Chaplain at Vanderbilt University. Shantell's Book: “Black girl magic and other elixirs”: https://www.shantellhhill.com/shopShantell's Website: https://www.shantellhhill.com/Shantell's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/shantellhhill/ and Love, Auntie: https://www.instagrSupport the showFollow us for more ✨bad✨ content: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/calledtobebad_podcast/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/calledtobebad Website: https://calledtobebad.buzzsprout.com/ Want to become part of the ✨baddie✨ community? Support us on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/calledtobebad Have a ✨bad✨ topic you want to talk about on the show? Get in touch with host, Mariah Martin at: calledtobebad@gmail.com #ctbb #podcast #podcastersoffacebook ...

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The College Football Experience (@TCEonSGPN) on the Sports Gambling Podcast Network reacts to another wild college football week as Week 13 came to a close. Pick Dundee aka (@TheColbyD) & Patty C (@PattyC831) break down each and every game and make sense of another wild college football week. Are the Michigan Wolverines deserving of the top seed in the College Football Playoffs if they beat the Iowa Hawkeyes in Indianapolis? How the hell did Nick Saban and the Alabama Crimson Tide win against the Auburn Tigers and will the Crimson Tide be able to hang with the Georgia Bulldogs in Atlanta? Should James Madison be a top 15 win after a dominating performance against Coastal Carolina in Conway, South Carolina? Will the Oregon Ducks put it on the Washington Huskies in Las Vegas in the final Pac 12 Championship? Who will be Texas A&M's next head coach? Did the Florida State Seminoles impress in The Swamp against the Florida Gators? Is the quarterback slide a unsafe play in college football? Will Kirk Ferentz and the Iowa Hawkeyes give the Michigan Wolverines a game in the Big Ten Championship? Should San Jose State be in the Mountain West Championship over UNLV and Boise State? We talk it all and more on this Week 13 reaction show on The College Football Experience. ===================================================== Support us by supporting our partners Gametime code SGPN - Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code SGPN for $20 off your first purchase - https://gametime.co/ Underdog Fantasy code SGPN - 100% Deposit Match up to $100 - https://play.underdogfantasy.com/p-sgpn 4:42 Discuss with fellow degens on Discord - https://sg.pn/discord SGPN Merch Store - https://sg.pn/store Download The Free SGPN App - https://sgpn.app Check out SGPN.TV Support us by supporting our partners Underdog Fantasy code SGPN - 100% Deposit Match up to $100 - https://sg.pn/underdog Follow The College Experience & SGPN On Social Media Twitter - https://twitter.com/TCEonSGPN Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/gamblingpodcast Instagram - http://www.instagram.com/sportsgamblingpodcast TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gamblingpodcast Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/sportsgamblingpodcast Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheCollegeExperience Follow The Hosts On Social Media Colby Dant - http://www.twitter.com/thecolbyd Patty C - https://twitter.com/PattyC831 NC Nick - https://twitter.com/NC__NicK Watch the Sports Gambling Podcast YouTube - https://www.sg.pn/YouTube Twitch - https://www.sg.pn/Twitch Read & Discuss - Join the conversation Website - https://www.sportsgamblingpodcast.com Slack - https://sg.pn/slack Reddit - https://www.sg.pn/reddit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

The College Football Experience (@TCEonSGPN) on the Sports Gambling Podcast Network reacts to another wild college football week as Week 13 came to a close. Pick Dundee aka (@TheColbyD) & Patty C (@PattyC831) break down each and every game and make sense of another wild college football week. Are the Michigan Wolverines deserving of the top seed in the College Football Playoffs if they beat the Iowa Hawkeyes in Indianapolis? How the hell did Nick Saban and the Alabama Crimson Tide win against the Auburn Tigers and will the Crimson Tide be able to hang with the Georgia Bulldogs in Atlanta? Should James Madison be a top 15 win after a dominating performance against Coastal Carolina in Conway, South Carolina? Will the Oregon Ducks put it on the Washington Huskies in Las Vegas in the final Pac 12 Championship? Who will be Texas A&M's next head coach? Did the Florida State Seminoles impress in The Swamp against the Florida Gators? Is the quarterback slide a unsafe play in college football? Will Kirk Ferentz and the Iowa Hawkeyes give the Michigan Wolverines a game in the Big Ten Championship? Should San Jose State be in the Mountain West Championship over UNLV and Boise State? We talk it all and more on this Week 13 reaction show on The College Football Experience. ===================================================== Support us by supporting our partners Gametime code SGPN - Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code SGPN for $20 off your first purchase - https://gametime.co/ Underdog Fantasy code SGPN - 100% Deposit Match up to $100 - https://play.underdogfantasy.com/p-sgpn 4:42 Discuss with fellow degens on Discord - https://sg.pn/discord SGPN Merch Store - https://sg.pn/store Download The Free SGPN App - https://sgpn.app Check out SGPN.TV Support us by supporting our partners Underdog Fantasy code SGPN - 100% Deposit Match up to $100 - https://sg.pn/underdog Follow The College Experience & SGPN On Social Media Twitter - https://twitter.com/TCEonSGPN Twitter - http://www.twitter.com/gamblingpodcast Instagram - http://www.instagram.com/sportsgamblingpodcast TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gamblingpodcast Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/sportsgamblingpodcast Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@TheCollegeExperience Follow The Hosts On Social Media Colby Dant - http://www.twitter.com/thecolbyd Patty C - https://twitter.com/PattyC831 NC Nick - https://twitter.com/NC__NicK Watch the Sports Gambling Podcast YouTube - https://www.sg.pn/YouTube Twitch - https://www.sg.pn/Twitch Read & Discuss - Join the conversation Website - https://www.sportsgamblingpodcast.com Slack - https://sg.pn/slack Reddit - https://www.sg.pn/reddit Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

We have former Ohio State kicker, Blair Conway, join us on this special episode. Blair talks about the famous "tie" against Michigan. He also shared his kicking experiences and some old Woody Hayes stories. After we have Blake on to preview "The Game". Dan thinks Matthew Jones and Donovan Jackson will have big days for the Buckeyes. Cass thinks the defensive ends will have a big day. Meanwhile, Blake emphasizes the need for Ohio State to stop Michigan's potent running attach. Finally we wrap up with our final regular season picks of the year!

In this episode of the Thoughtful Entrepreneur, your host Josh Elledge speaks with the Founder, Strategist & Creative Director  of Sealevel Agency, Allison Conway. Allison emphasized the importance of creating bold and human brands, even in the financial services and supply chain industries.  Allison explained that many businesses in these industries hesitate to step outside the "buttoned-up" image they believe they should portray.  However, she argues that by telling stories and humanizing their brand, they can connect with their customers on a deeper level. Allison points out that all business is human-to-human, and consumers now expect brands to reflect this in their branding. B2B marketing, in particular, is highly emotional, as clients often share their business challenges and anxieties.  When asked about resources or recommendations for those interested in making changes and diving into their communities, Alison suggested following her on LinkedIn, where she regularly posts valuable content.  Additionally, she offers a guide called "The Guinness Treatment" on her website, which provides insights on giving your business the same level of brand management as Guinness, a company known for its strong community involvement. Key Points from the Episode: Importance of creating bold and human brands in traditionally "boring" industries Telling stories and humanizing brands to connect with customers on a deeper level Example of Guinness Storehouse's storytelling and community connection Focus on providing emotional safety in financial services industry Understanding the emotional needs of customers and tailoring branding accordingly All business is human-to-human, even in B2B marketing Importance of understanding and being a part of the community you serve Immersing yourself in the community to better understand their needs About Allison Conway: A seasoned adventurer and accomplished author, Allison Conway boasts a rich tapestry of global experiences, having explored over 40 countries. Her travel highlights range from savoring Jordan's culinary delights to immersing herself in Egypt's historical treasures, Austria's picturesque landscapes, and Vietnam's vibrant urban jungle.  A self-published author, Conway achieved a remarkable feat with her book, soaring to #1 bestseller status on Amazon in the competitive Business & Money and Self-Help categories. Beyond her literary accomplishments, Conway walked the transformative Camino de Santiago, a 500-mile pilgrimage in Spain, and briefly contributed to a float plane operation in Alaska. 

Kelsey Conway covers the Bengals for Cincinnati.com. She joined us to talk about what it was like to cover a disastrous night for the Bengals in person, Joe Burrow's injury, the Bengals moving forward with Jake Browning, Logan Wilson slander, and whether Joe Burrow has thrown his last pass to Tee Higgins. Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530. Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listenGet more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger

Kelsey Conway covers the Bengals for Cincinnati.com. She joined us to talk about what it was like to cover a disastrous night for the Bengals in person, Joe Burrow's injury, the Bengals moving forward with Jake Browning, Logan Wilson slander, and whether Joe Burrow has thrown his last pass to Tee Higgins. Podcasts of The Mo Egger Radio Show are a service of Longnecks Sports Grill.Listen to the show live weekday afternoons 3:00 - 6:00 on ESPN1530. Listen Live: ESPN1530.com/listenGet more: https://linktr.ee/MoEgger

Suspect death investigated in Morrilton; officer-involved shooting under investigation in Conway; final preparations underway for Thanksgiving in the Park; Extension agent offers planting prep tips; officials put hold on Lake Conway item removal; high school basketball roundup, and we visit with Morrilton Mayor Allen Lipsmeyer.

Economist K.C. Conway with KCnomics, LLC shares his outlook for various commercial real estate sectors, banks, interest rates, and the economy. Discussions include forecasts for office, retail, industrial, multifamily, build-to-rent, senior housing, and self-storage.  Lument - Lending is more than a loan: https://www.lument.com/ Bull Realty - Customized Asset & Occupancy Solutions: https://www.bullrealty.com/ Commercial Agent Success Strategies - The ultimate commercial broker training resource: https://www.commercialagentsuccess.com/ Watch the video versions of our show on YouTube! https://www.youtube.com/c/Commercialrealestateshow Follow us at: @BullRealty https://twitter.com/bullrealty @CRE_show https://twitter.com/CRE_show

What a joy to interview author, humorist, friend and BAYarts Board President Mary Conway Sullivanvon on her new book  "What The Farm?"  A personal journey of one woman's perspective, jumping into her husbands dream of owning a farm in mid-Ohio. A blending of humor and heartfelt charm as Mary helps her husband's dream become a reality. A reality of chaos that collides across 250 acres of endless possibility. My read of "What The Farm?" took me back to my earlier readings of Erma Bombeck books I have always enjoyed. Laughing out loud as I turned each page. Enjoy the laughs Mary and I have on this fast paced podcast as she talks about her new book and expands on some of the many relatable, touching, and occasionally profane stories that capture farm life's essence while delivering universal truths that hit home. Or should I say, hit barn?" AVAILABLE FOR PURCHASE  ON AMAZON   link https://a.co/d/cXCtVW2

Ever wondered what it feels like to be smack in the middle of The World Food Championships? I, your host Carl Fiadini, and my co-host Mark Conway, the event's MC and host, are here to share all the electrifying energy and stunning culinary showdowns taking place in this extraordinary foodie fest. Imagine the buzz as 200 teams go head-to-head in a thrilling gastronomic battle – and we've got the best seats in the house, right on the red carpet!But that's not all! We spice up our food talk with some hilarious behind-the-scenes stories, including an unexpected encounter involving a truck and a deer! Plus, I'll be stepping into a new role as a master judge at the competition. Listen to Mark and I spar over my 'Rocky Balboa'-style training, and his anticipation of meeting some of his well-known friends from the culinary world. And as the icing on the cake, we're introducing a brand new mixology competition. So brace yourselves for a delicious blend of food, fun, and a hint of friendly debauchery at one of the biggest food events of the year! Will we catch sight of you there? Support the showThank you for listening to the Walk-In Talk Podcast, hosted by Carl Fiadini and Company. Our show not only explores the exciting and chaotic world of the restaurant business and amazing eateries but also advocates for mental health awareness in the food industry. Recorded on-site at top hotels, restaurants, and farms, our podcast offers a behind-the-scenes look at the industry. Don't miss out on upcoming episodes where we'll continue to cook up thought-provoking discussions on important topics, including mental health awareness. Be sure to visit our website for more food industry-related content, including our very own TV show called Restaurant Recipes were we feature Chefs cooking up their dishes and also The Dirty Dash Cocktail Hour; the focus is mixology and amazing drinks! Thank you for tuning in, and we'll catch you next time on the Walk-In Talk Podcast. www.TheWalkInTalk.com Also rate and review us on IMDb:https://www.imdb.com/title/tt27766644/reference/

Mike McCullars talks 25 years of the Conway Men's Chorus and the upcoming holiday concert. Website: https://conwaymenschorus.org/

Clint Stoerner joins The Zone thanks to Chris Crain Hyundai of Conway.

Sean Conway has had an incredible career pushing the limits of human endurance and setting numerous world records. Conway discussed his journey from portrait photographer to extreme athlete, including how he overcame being hit by a car during a record attempt and went on to complete a 4,200 mile triathlon.   Steve and Sean discuss his record of 105 Ironman triathlons back-to-back, they explored the challenges of fueling and recovering his body at that level of exertion. Overall the interview provided fascinating insights into Conway's motivations and mindset that have allowed him to achieve such outstanding athletic accomplishments.   KEY TAKEAWAYS Conway's approach to training focuses on high volume and building the right muscle fibres for endurance over strength. When discussing his record of 105 Ironman triathlons back-to-back, Conway explored the challenges of fueling and recovering his body at that level of exertion.   BEST MOMENTS Conway discussed how he overcame being hit by a car during a record attempt and went on to complete a 4,200 mile triathlon. They explored Conway's motivations and mindset that have allowed him to achieve such outstanding athletic accomplishments, like needing to constantly chase new goals.   VALUABLE RESOURCES The Steven Sulley Study Sean's Instagram   ABOUT THE HOST The Steven Sulley Study is my take on success. My view is you should have multiple focuses to be a well-rounded individual. Success shouldn't be just one thing like money, for example, it should also consist of a healthy fit lifestyle and thriving relationships. As a person who has made a success in life and also made huge cock-ups I feel I can offer suggestions and tips on how to become successful or at least start your pursuit. My ‘Study' has taken resources from reading and education plus being around, my perception, of successful people and I, know a lot of successful people from all walks of life. My ‘Study' coming from my experiences in business, investing, sales (my core background), training, boxing and education has enabled me to become well rounded and successful and I will help you in these key areas too.   CONTACT METHOD Instagram

On this episode of Whatahockey, Stars hockey is "thriving" and the Texas Rangers are BUZZING -Catch up with Pat, Jason, and Fink -The boys chat it up on the Texas Rangers World Series parade -We take a DEEP dive into Americans, Texas, and Dallas Stars hockey -The Wild are just the sorest losers huh? Make sure to follow all our wonderful sponsors! (Conway & Banks, Nicemitts) Have someone you want to join the pod? Or want to become a sponsor? Email us at whatahockey@gmail.com

Neil Treacy is joined by Jonny Holland to look back on this week's URC action. We examine how Ulster beat Munster in Belfast after perfecting the basics, as the province bounced back from their defeat to Connacht. And we look ahead to Munster v Stormers, Sharks v Connacht and Leinster's upcoming arrival of senior coach Jacques Nienaber.

Join us on this episode of HIGHER.CONVERSATIONS with a Haley Westfall, the creator of Collab Culture and business strategist; as she shares her personal journey of taking a leap of faith into entrepreneurship after leaving her corporate job. Discover how she navigated the challenges in an “oversaturated market”, found her unique voice, maintained being a mom and wife, and built a successful brand in a crowded industry Follow The Podcast: @Higher.Conversations https://instagram.com/conwayisrad?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Follow the Host: https://instagram.com/conwayisrad?igshid=M2RkZGJiMzhjOQ== https://linktr.ee/Conwayisrad?fbclid=PAAaYM6EY1MWoxJMgoQJDQSjTl3r5jm3djlzF9ObQvXa56zpX-QoSzhREARrE_aem_ATYF0jML0cdnvdOQgSFSwfMSK1dDRK8TztB_08BJxLNuTyKghPKznA7linUX3DgT-iA Follow Haley: https://instagram.com/thehaleywestfall?igshid=YzAwZjE1ZTI0Zg== Digital journal: use code Conway @ checkout https://www.etsy.com/shop/HigherConversations

In this podcast episode, we cover topics on- At what stage should you start selling their product on AmazonWhat categories of products are best on AmazonWhy are the the first 18 months crucial Launching your product on Amazon The three C's of Amazon marketplace: Competition, commercials and competition What is an “A plus content” on AmazonWhat are the biggest challenges DTC brands face Best practices:  Amazon Paid advertising What are the pricing strategies to consider before selling on Amazon vs your website Big changes afoot on the platformFind Hamish on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hamishconway/ 

Jason talks to Zach Conway, co-founder and CEO of Seeds. It is a platform that allows advisers to better assess investors and personalize their portfolios in order to create a better engagement with them. Zach highlights the traditional mechanical investing process with Seeds' approach, which aims to make investing more meaningful and engaging for both the investor and the advisor.Episode Highlights 02:07: Zach stresses the importance of understanding your client deeply. By asking the right questions, one can understand their needs, desires, and values. This is essential for delivering a personalized experience.05:13: Zach emphasizes the difference in their approach. Instead of explaining the money management strategy, they take clients through a digital assessment to unpack their personal investment mindset and behaviors.08:19: Zach speaks about side-by-side analysis of the current and proposed portfolios. He highlights the platform's capabilities, from portfolio construction to implementation and management.10:39: The traditional process of managing money and the flaws in not truly understanding the client's perspective, says Zach.15:54: Zach stresses the need for a change in the narrative, moving away from the emotional investment stories driven by fear and greed. He talks about the ongoing struggle and their aim to rectify this perception in the industry.17:16: Zach talks about the prevalent sales conversations in the industry when clients walk in and the narrative around money management. He comments on the industry's realization of the pitfalls of this narrative, especially when the S&P decreases.23:05: Zach talks about presenting a three-dimensional story to the investor. The focus can be on values alignment, risk exposure, or other aspects based on the client's persona. He emphasizes the need for personalized storytelling in the industry.27:22: Jason talks about the next generation's perception of investing and mentions the disconnect in the industry's marketing and actual delivery.33:25: Zach expresses excitement about the prospect of creating a future where investors feel heard and understood, and advisors provide value by aligning investments with clients' values and goals.3 Key PointsSeeds takes a client-centric approach by understanding an investor's analytical nature, interest in emerging trends, values, and ethical concerns. They emphasize the importance of aligning investments with these factors.Seeds aims to make investing more meaningful and engaging for both investors and advisors, contrasting this approach with traditional mechanical investing processes.Zach emphasizes the need for a shift in the industry's narrative, moving away from focusing solely on investment returns to understanding clients deeply and shaping portfolios around their values.Tweetable Quotes"Understanding your client deeply is essential for delivering a personalized investment experience." - Zach Conway"Our goal is to provide a personalized investment experience from initial assessment to ongoing portfolio management and reviews." - Zach Conway"It's not about the technology, it's about how it's applied. Sustainable organic growth is the key." - Zach ConwayResources Mentioned:Facebook – Jason Pereira's FacebookLinkedIn – Jason Pereira's LinkedInWoodgate.com – Sponsor Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Principal Tina Meglich shares the journey of Conway Academy of Expeditionary Learning to create an authentic learner-centered environment. Learn how they built a shared vision that honors student voice, cultivates learner agency, embraces an expeditionary learning model, and designs authentic assessments.

Ruairi O'Hagan is joined by Munster legends Alan Quinlan and Fiona Hayes to look back on the Reds' defeat to Ulster in Belfast. Fiona and Alan pick their Star of the Week, there's a preview of the URC Grand Final rematch with Stormers and we pay tribute to Andrew Conway.(0.30) Intro (4.40) Review of Ulster v Munster(27.23) Star of the Week (29.48) Stormers preview(38.42) Andrew Conway's retirement(41.40) Oli Jager on his way to Munster?The first twenty minutes of this week's podcast is unlocked, but to listen to the full podcast, get on over to the Off The Ball app, or become a member at offtheball.com/join.Get in contact on Twitter @rugbychannel15 or email therugbychannel@bauermedia.ieSubscribe to The Rugby Channel for new episodes every week! #TheRed78

In this episode of Quakers Today we ask, How do you process memories, experiences and feelings? For the best listening experience we encourage you to listen to this episode with headphones or earbuds.   Rashid Darden's Personal Reflections The episode features Rashid Darden and his reflection of identity and faith. As a Black person in a predominantly white faith community, Rashid's experience is unique and enlightening. He shares, "The surprising thing about my journey in the Quaker faith is that I'm still able to show up as my entire self and not be penalized for it... and in fact, to be celebrated for it."  Rashid Darden is an award-winning, best-selling novelist of urban LGBT experiences, a seasoned leader of Black fraternal movements and nonprofit organizations, and a professional educator in alternative schools. He lives in Conway, North Carolina. Rashid serves as the Associate Secretary for Communications and Outreach for Friends General Conference.  Hear more of Rashid's reflections in the QuakerSpeak video, Growing the Community of Friends, Embracing Diversity, and Quakerism. It is also available at the QuakerSpeak YouTube Channel. Many thanks to Christopher Cuthrell for providing this audio.  Influences on Virginia Woolf Peterson Toscano draws a parallel between the Quaker faith and the literary world, focusing on Virginia Woolf, a renowned early 20th-century author. Some scholars suggest that Woolf's feminist stance and innovative writing techniques were significantly influenced by her Quaker aunt, Caroline Stephen. She is the author of the classic religious text, Quaker Strongholds. This connection highlights how Quaker practices of self-reflection and inner exploration may have impacted Woolf's iconic stream of consciousness writing style, particularly evident in characters like Mrs. Dalloway. Dig Deeper into Caroline Stephen and Virginia Woolf A Quaker Influence on Moder English Literature: Virginia Woolf and her Quaker Aunt Caroline Stephen by Alison M Lewis The Search for God: Virginia Woolf and Caroline Emelia Stephen by Kathleen A. Heininge, George Fox University Virginia Woolf's Vision of Utopia by Diane Reynolds Quakers and Fiction: Vicki Winslow's “Sabbatical” The episode also brings us the story "Sabbatical" by Vicki Winslow. After experiencing the loss of her father, Silena Yancey travels from North Carolina to the American Southwest to find inspiration, which she hopes leads to equilibrium. Vicki shares, "My story 'Sabbatical' is largely a collage... In many ways, we're all on a sort of pilgrimage." This narrative invites listeners into the internal pilgrimage of its protagonist, providing a window into the process of self-discovery and reflection. Vicki Winslow is a writer who currently serves as clerk of the Friends Meeting in Liberty, North Carolina. Her publications include Follow the Leader for middle readers, a novella called The Conversion of Jefferson Scotten, and short stories in both literary and online journals including the story The Last Bear in Deep South Magazine. Read the full story in the November 2023 issue of Friends Journal or on FriendsJournal.org. In our podcast feed, you will also find a bonus recording to Vicki's story.  Satire in Quaker Context Adding a different flavor to the episode, Peterson discusses Donn Weinholtz's book, Jesus Christ, M.B.A.: A Gospel for Our Times. The story is illustrated by David Weinholtz. Carl Blumenthal reviewed the short book for Friends Journal. He writes, Conventional wisdom says that if Jesus returned today, he would be branded a heretic, a lunatic, or a criminal. Yet Donn Weinholtz's satire on the Second Coming imagines him as a rabble-rouser, who, instead of rendering unto Caesar what is Caesar's, plunges into the political fray as an independent candidate for the U.S. presidency. Closing Thoughts and Invitation As Peterson Toscano and the team begin preparing for the next season of Quakers Today, he invites listeners to share their experiences of the show and share feedback. Leave a voice message or send an email. You will find contact details below. Question for next month How do you process memories, experiences, and feelings? Leave a voice memo with your name and the town where you live. The number to call is 317-QUAKERS, that's 317-782-5377. +1 if calling from outside the U.S. Or email podcast@friendsjournal.org  Quakers Today is the companion podcast to Friends Journal and other Friends Publishing Corporation (FPC) content online. Season Two of Quakers Today is sponsored by the American Friends Service Committee.  Do you want to challenge unjust systems and promote lasting peace? The American Friends Service Committee, or AFSC works with communities worldwide to drive social change. Their website features meaningful steps you can take to make a difference. Through their Friends Liaison Program, you can connect your meeting or church with AFSC and their justice campaigns. To learn more, visit AFSC.org   

Are you tired of the same old fitness routine and craving a mix of challenge and camaraderie? Dive into the incredible fitness journey of Phillip Conway, a regular guy who transformed his life through the extraordinary F3 fitness movement. Meet Phillip, a man who shifted from a sedentary lifestyle to becoming a cornerstone of the F3 fitness group. Join us as we unfold tales of sweat, resilience, and the remarkable brotherhood born from that pivotal first step into the world of F3. The story begins with Phillip sharing his background - a military kid who finally found a home in Lakewood Ranch, opening his own restaurant, Pincher Pinchers, earning him the nickname. His life took a turn when the endless restaurant feasts piled on extra pounds. Playing soccer with his kid resulted in a calf injury, prompting a life-altering realization. Enter biking, a solo exercise that, although enjoyable, lacked the fun factor Phillip craved. Then, a serendipitous encounter with Viking, a fellow parent, changed everything. Viking introduced Phillip to a group of guys working out nearby, inviting him to join. Little did he know, this would mark the beginning of his transformative journey with F3. Picture Phillip's surprise as he joined the group, finding the intensity beyond his expectations. The warm-up alone felt like a workout, pushing him to his limits. This marked the genesis of his F3 adventure. In Phillip's words, "F3 isn't just about fitness; it's about community and pushing each other to be better every day." He discovered the power of shared goals, the joy of collective achievement, and the unwavering support of his newfound brothers. So, if you're yearning for a fitness transformation like Phillip's, consider taking that crucial first step. F3 isn't just a workout; it's a journey towards a healthier, more fulfilling life, surrounded by a community that pushes you to be your best self. Join the F3 movement today, and who knows, your story could be the next inspiring tale of triumph in the face of a sedentary past. Embrace the challenge, relish the camaraderie, and become an F3 warrior like Phillip Conway. Your journey to a healthier, happier you starts now! Transform your life with F3 today!    Connect with Phillip:https://f3nation.com/ ______________________________________________  

This weeks episode was a pleasure to record, it was a really enjoyable chat from start to finish so I hope you enjoy.   Cáoileánn is a sports dietician, content creator, cross fitter and all around sound person. We went in depth on her struggles with mental health, outlooks on life, crossfit and everything in between.   If you enjoy the episode don't forget to share it and give us a tag. Cáoileánn links: IG - https://www.instagram.com/be_betteryou/?hl=en TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@caoileannconway YT - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuUvLqhF9CGdDEJWfLdiYNA

This podcast hit paid subscribers' inboxes on Nov. 6. It dropped for free subscribers on Nov. 13. To receive future pods as soon as they're live, and to support independent ski journalism, please consider an upgrade to a paid subscription. You can also subscribe to the free tier below:WhoTom Chasse, President and CEO of Schweitzer Mountain, IdahoRecorded onOctober 23, 2023About SchweitzerClick here for a mountain stats overviewOwned by: Alterra Mountain CompanyLocated in: Sandpoint, IdahoYear founded: 1963Pass affiliations:* Ikon Pass: unlimited* Ikon Base Pass, Ikon Base Plus Pass: 5 days with holiday blackoutsClosest neighboring ski areas: 49 Degrees North (1:30), Silver Mountain (1:42), Mt. Spokane (2:00), Lookout Pass (2:06), Turner Mountain (2:17) – travel times vary considerably depending upon weather, time of day, and time of yearBase elevation: 3,960 feet (at Outback Inn)Summit elevation: 6,389 feetVertical drop: 2,429 feetSkiable Acres: 2,900Average annual snowfall: 300 inchesTrail count: 92 (10% Beginner, 40% Intermediate, 35% Advanced, 15% Expert)Lift count: 10 (1 six-pack, 4 high-speed quads, 2 triples, 1 double, 1 T-bar, 1 carpet)View historic Schweitzer trailmaps on skimap.org.Why I interviewed himChasse first appeared on the podcast in January 2021, for what would turn out to be the penultimate episode in the Covid-19 & Skiing miniseries. Our focus was singular: to explore the stress and irritation shoved onto resort employees charged with mask-police duty. As I wrote at the time:One of the biggest risks to the reconstituted-for-Covid ski season was always going to be that large numbers of knuckleheads would treat mask requirements as the first shots fired in Civil War II. Schweitzer, an enormous ski Narnia poking off the tip of the Idaho panhandle, became the most visible instance of this phenomenon when General Manager Tom Chasse chopped three days of twilight skiing after cantankerous Freedom Bros continually threw down with exhausted staff over requests to mask up. While violations of mask mandates haven't ignited widespread resort shutdowns and the vast majority of skiers seem resigned to them, Schweitzer's stand nonetheless distills the precarious nature of lift-served skiing amidst a still-raging pandemic. Skiers, if they grow careless and defiant, can shut down mountains. And so can the ski areas themselves, if they feel they can't safely manage the crowds descending upon them in this winter of there's-nothing-else-to-do. While it's unfortunate that a toxic jumble of misinformation, conspiracy theories, political chest-thumping, and ignorance has so thoroughly infected our population that even something as innocuous as riding a chairlift has become a culture war flashpoint, it has. And it's worth investigating the full story at Schweitzer to gauge how big the problem is and how to manage it in a way that allows us to all keep skiing.We did talk about the mountain for a few minutes at the end, but I'd always meant to get back to Idaho's largest ski area. In 2022, I hosted the leaders of Tamarack, Bogus Basin, Brundage, and Sun Valley on the podcast. Now, I'm finally back at the top of the panhandle, to go deep on the future of Alterra Mountain Company's newest lift-served toy.What we talked aboutThe new Creekside Express lift; a huge new parking lot incoming for the 2024-25 ski season; the evolution of the 2018 masterplan; why and how Schweitzer sold to Alterra; the advantages of joining a conglomerate versus remaining independent; whether Schweitzer could ever evolve into a destination resort; reflecting on the McCaw family legacy as Alterra takes control; thoughts on the demise-and-revival of Black Mountain, New Hampshire; the biggest difference between running a ski resort in New England versus the West; the slow, complete transformation of Schweitzer over the past two decades; the rationale behind the Outback Bowl lift upgrades; why Schweitzer's upper-mountain lifts are mostly fixed-grip machines; whether Alterra will continue with Schweitzer's 2018 masterplan or rethink it; potential for an additional future Outback Bowl lift, as outlined in the masterplan; contemplating future frontside lifts and terrain expansion; thoughts on a future Sunnyside lift replacement; how easy it would be to expand Schweitzer; the state of the ski area's snowmaking system; Schweitzer's creeping snowline; sustained and creative investment in employee housing; Ikon Pass access; locals' reaction to the mountain going unlimited on the full Ikon; whether Schweitzer could convert to the unlimited-with-blackouts tier on Ikon Base; dynamic pricing; whether the Musical Carpet will continue to be free; discount night-skiing; and whether Schweitzer's reciprocal season pass partners will remain after the 2023-24 ski season.Why I thought that now was a good time for this interviewUntil June, Schweitzer was the third-largest independent ski area in America, and just barely, trailing the 3,000 lift-served acres at Whitefish and Powder Mountain by just 100 acres. It's larger than Alta (2,614 acres), Grand Targhee (2,602), or Jackson Hole (2,500). That made this ever-improving resort lodged at the top of America the largest independent U.S. ski area on the Ikon Pass.Well, that's all finished. Once Alterra dropped Idaho's second-largest ski area into its shopping cart in June, Schweitzer became another name on the Denver-based company's attendance sheet, their fifth-largest resort after Palisades Tahoe (6,000 acres), Mammoth (3,500), Steamboat (3,500), and Winter Park (3,081).But what matters more than how the mountain stacks up on the stat sheet is how Alterra will facilitate Schweitzer's rapidly unfolding 2018 masterplan, which calls for a clutch of new lifts and a terrain expansion rising out of a Delaware-sized parking lot below the current base area. Schweitzer has so far moved quickly on the plan, dropping two brand-new lifts into Outback Bowl to replace an old centerpole double and activating a new high-speed quad called Creekside to replace the Musical Chairs double this past summer. Additional improvements include an upgrade to the Sunnyside lift and yet another lift in Outback. Is Alterra committed to all this?The company's rapid and comprehensive renovations or planned upgrades of Palisades Tahoe, Steamboat, and Deer Valley suggest that they will be. Alterra is not in the business of creating great day-ski areas. They are building destination ski resorts. Schweitzer, always improving but never quite gelling as a national bucket-lister, may have the captain it needs to finally get there.What I got wrongI asked Chasse if there was an “opportunity for a Snowcat operation.” There already is one: Selkirk Powder runs day-long tours in Schweitzer's “west-northwest-facing bowls adjacent to the resort.”Why you should ski SchweitzerAllow me to play the Ida-homer for a moment. All we ever hear about is traffic in Colorado. Traffic in the canyons. Traffic in Tahoe. Traffic at Mount Hood and all around Washington. Sometimes, idling amid stopped traffic in your eight-wheel-drive Chuckwagon Supreme Ultimate Asskicker Pickup Truck can seem as much a part of western skiing as pow and open bowls.But when was the last time you heard someone gripe about ski traffic in Idaho? Probably never. Which is weird, because look at this:Ten ski areas with a thousand-plus acres of terrain; 12 with vertical drops topping 1,000 feet; seven that average 300 inches or more of snow per season. That's pretty, um, Epic (except that Vail has no mountains and no partners in this ripper of a ski state).So what's going on? Over the weekend, I hosted a panel of ski area general managers at the Snowvana festival in Portland, Oregon. Among the participants were Tamarack President Scott Turlington and Silver Mountain GM Jeff Colburn. Both told me some version of, “we never have lift lines.” Look again at those stats. What the hell?Go to Idaho, is my point here, if you need a break from the madness. The state, along with neighboring Montana, may be the last refuge of big vert and big snow without big crowds in our current version of U.S. America.Schweitzer, as it happens, is the largest ski area in the state. It also happens to be one of the most modern, along with Tamarack, which is not yet 20 years old, and Sun Valley, with its fleet of high-speed lifts. Schweitzer sports what was long the state's only six-pack (until Sun Valley upgraded Challenger this year), along with four high-speed quads. Of the remaining lifts, all are less than 20 years old with the exception of Sunnyside, a 1960s relic that is among the last artifacts of Old Schweitzer.Chasse tells us on the podcast that the ski area could add hundreds of acres of terrain simply by moving a boundary rope. So why not do it? Because the mountain, as it stands, absorbs everyone who shows up to ski it pretty well.A lot of the appeal of Idaho lies in the rough-and-tumble, in the dented-can feel of big, remote mountains towering forgotten in the hinterlands, centerpole doubles swinging empty up the incline. But that's changing, slowly, ski area by ski area. Schweitzer is way ahead of most on the upgrade progression, infrastructure built more like a Wasatch resort than that of its neighbors in Idaho and Washington. But the crowds – or relative lack of them – is still pure Idaho.Podcast NotesOn Schweitzer's masterplan Even though Schweitzer sits entirely on private land, the ski area published a masterplan similar to those of its Forest Service peers in 2018, outlining new lifts and terrain all over the mountain:Though that plan has changed somewhat (Creekside, for instance, was not included), Schweitzer has continued to make progress against it. Alterra, it seems, will keep pushing it down the assembly line.On the Alterra acquisitionIn July, I hosted Alterra CEO Jared Smith on the podcast. We discuss the Schweitzer acquisition at the 53:48 mark:On Alterra's megaresort ambitionsWithout explicitly saying so, Alterra has undertaken an aggressive cross-portfolio supercharging of several marquee properties. Last year, the company sewed together the Palisades and Alpine Meadows sides of its giant California resort with a 2.1-mile-long gondola:This year, Steamboat will open the second leg of its 3.1-mile-long, 10-passenger Wild Blue gondola and a several-hundred-acre terrain expansion (and attendant high-speed quad), on Mahogany Ridge:Earlier this year, Alterra announced a massive expansion that will make Deer Valley the fourth-largest ski area in America:Winter Park's 2022 masterplan update included several proposed terrain pods and a gondola linking mountain to town:If my email inbox is any indication, New England Alterra skiers – meaning loyalists at Stratton and Sugarbush – are getting inpatient. When will the Colorado-based company turn its cash cannon east? I don't know, but it will happen.On Mt. WittierChasse learned how to ski at Mt. Wittier, New Hampshire. I included a whole bit on this place in a recent newsletter:As far as ski area relics go, it's hard to find a more captivating artifact than the Mt. Whittier gondola. While the New Hampshire ski area has sat abandoned since the mid-1980s, towers for the four-passenger gondola still rise 1,300-vertical feet up the mountainside. Tower one stands, improbably, across New Hampshire State Highway 16, rising from a McDonald's parking lot. The still-intact haul rope stretches across this paved expanse and terminates at a garage-style door behind the property. Check it out:Jeremy Davis, founder of the New England Lost Ski Areas Project, told me an amazing story when he appeared on The Storm Skiing Podcast in 2019. A childhood glimpse of the abandoned Mt. Whittier ignited his mad pursuit to document the region's lost ski areas. Years later, he returned for a closer look. He visited the shop that now occupies the former gondola base building, and the owner offered to let him peek in the garage. There, dusty but intact, sat many, or perhaps all, of the lift's 35 four-passenger gondola cars. It's still one of my favorite episodes:A bizarre snowtubing outfit called “Mt. Madness” briefly operated around the turn of the century, according to New England Ski History. But other than the gondola, traces of the ski area have mostly disappeared. The forest cover is so thick that the original trail network is just scarcely visible on Google Maps.The entire 797-acre property is now for sale, listed at $3.2 million. The gondola barn, it appears, is excluded, as is the money-making cell tower at the summit. But there might be enough here to hack the ski area back out of the wilderness:Which would, of course, cost you a lot more than $3.2 million. Whittier has a decent location, west of King Pine and south of Conway. But it's on the wrong side of New Hampshire for easy interstate access, and we're on the wrong side of history for realistically building a ski area in New England. On the seasonal disruption of hunting in rural areasChasse points to hunting season as an unexpected operational disruption when he moved from New England to Idaho. If you've never lived in a rural area, it can be hard to appreciate how ingrained hunting is into local cultures. Where I grew up, in a small Michigan town, Nov. 15 – or “Deer Day,” as the first day of the state's two-week rifle-hunting season was colloquially known – was an official school holiday. Morning announcements would warn high-schoolers to watch out for sugar beets – popular deer bait – on M-30. It's a whole thing.On 2006 SchweitzerIt's hard to overstate just how much Schweitzer has evolved since the turn of the century. Until the Stella sixer arrived in 2000, the mountain was mostly a kingdom of pokey old double chairs, save for the Great Escape high-speed quad, which had arrived in 1990:The only lift from that trailmap that remains is Sunnyside, then known as Chair 4. The Stella sixer replaced Chair 5 in 2000; Chair 1 gave way to the Basin Express and Lakeview triple in 2007; Chair 6 (Snow Ghost), came down for the Cedar Park Express quad and Colburn triple in 2019; and Creekside replaced Chair 2 (Musical Chairs), this past summer. In 2005, Schweitzer opened up an additional peak to lift service with the Idyle Our T-bar.While lifts are (usually) a useful proxy for measuring a resort's modernization progress, they barely begin to really quantify the extreme changes at Schweitzer over the past few decades. Note, too, the parking lots that once lined the mountain at the Chair 2 summit – land that's since been repurposed for a village.On Schweitzer's proximity to Powder Highway/BC mountainsMany reference materials stop listing ski areas at the top of America, as though that is the northern border of our ski world. But stop ignoring that big chunk of real estate known as “Canada,” and Schweitzer suddenly sits in a far more interesting neighborhood. The ski area could be considered the southern-most stop on the Powder Highway, just down the road from Red and Whitewater, not far from Kimberley and Fernie, skiable on the same circuit as Revelstoke, Sun Peaks, Silver Star, Big White, Panorama, and Castle. It's a compelling roadtrip:Yes, there area lot more ski areas in there, but these are most of the huge ones. And no, I don't know if all of these roads are open in the winter – the point here is to show the overall density, not program your GPS.On Alterra's varying approach to its owned mountains on the Ikon PassAlterra, unlike Vail, does not treat all of its mountains equally on the top-tier Ikon Pass. Here's how the company's owned mountains sit on the various Ikon tiers:On cheap I-90 lift ticketsI've written about this a bunch of times, but the stretch of I-90 from Spokane to the Idaho-Montana border offers some of the most affordable big-mountain lift tickets in the country. Here's a look at 2022-23 walk-up lift ticket prices for the five mountains stretched across the region:Next season's rates aren't live yet, but I expect them to be similar.On Alterra lift ticket pricesI don't expect Schweitzer's lift tickets to stay proportionate to the rest of the region for long. Here are Alterra's top anticipated 2023-24 walk-up lift ticket rates at its owned resorts:On Bogus Basin's reciprocal lift ticket programI mentioned Bogus Basin's extensive reciprocal lift ticket program. It's pretty badass, as the ski area is a member of both the Freedom Pass and Powder Alliance, and has set up a bunch of independent reciprocals besides:The Storm explores the world of lift-served skiing year-round. Join us.The Storm publishes year-round, and guarantees 100 articles per year. This is article 97/100 in 2023, and number 483 since launching on Oct. 13, 2019. Want to send feedback? Reply to this email and I will answer (unless you sound insane, or, more likely, I just get busy). You can also email skiing@substack.com. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.stormskiing.com/subscribe

Meet Nicolle Fletcher! Nicolle is a powerhouse doula & midwife in Arkansas who we are proud to collaborate with. She is a force to be reckoned with, seeking to advocate for the maternal health crisis in Arkansas. If you are pregnant or hoping to become pregnant soon and considering a midwife or doula and don't know where to start, give this podcast a listen.Nicolle Sherrie Fletcher is married to Dr. Phillip D. Fletcher and is the proud mother of adult children Nicollus, Najee and Nichelle. Nicolle is a native of San Diego, California and has been a resident of Conway, Arkansas since April 2007.She is the owner of Nurturing Arrows Doula Coaching Services, a business dedicated to training doulas and providing full maternal education and support during the childbearing years. She is the co-founder, visionary, and executive director of Ujima Maternity Network, Inc. (UMN)  a 501 (c) 3 non-profit in Arkansas. The mission of UMN is to work collectively to reduce the gross maternal and infant mortality and morbidity rates amongst Black mothers in the state of Arkansas through community outreach events, ethnically congregant doula support, lactation support, local resources and midwifery care.She seeks to address the maternal health crisis that plagues the birthing community namely Black mothers and provides solutions to empower instead of victimize our community. Nicolle has dedicated her life to the advancement of maternal healthcare and advocacy as an Certified Birth Doula for the past 14 years. Her professional portfolio includes becoming a Certified Lactation Counselor, Certified Health Coach, Regenerative Health Coach, Childbirth Educator, Trained Postpartum Doula, Doula Trainer and Mentor, Public Speaker, Co-founder of City of Hope Outreach, and Apprentice Midwife. Nicolle will be the first Black Certified Professional Midwife since the grand midwives in Arkansas. In her years of service she had trained and certified over 30 women as birth & postpartum doulas in Arkansas. 

David Conwayfalse

“This year, I had to commit to a different way of thinking and training with a lot of uncertainty before seeing the fruits of my labor. It was very, very scary the way I had to train this year because I went into the season not even knowing if I was going to compete at all.”Six-time CrossFit Games athlete Bethany Shadburne Flores joins the show to share her story of growth, finding self-confidence, working through injuries, and advocating for herself in and outside of the CrossFit gym.Flores grew up as a gymnast and has competed in bodybuilding competitions, triathlons, half-marathons, and obstacle courses. She started CrossFit in 2015 and qualified for her first CrossFit Games in 2017. Most recently, Flores competed at the 2023 CrossFit Games after missing out on the 2022 season due to a back injury.Over the years, Flores has experienced limitations both physically and mentally that forced her to make changes, adjust her training, and grow as a person and an athlete.In today's episode, Flores describes different injuries and setbacks she's experienced throughout her athletic career, both physically and mentally. She opens up about the work she's done to trust herself and the process, finding her identity outside of being an athlete, and adapting her training to fit her daily needs.Flores dives into listening to your body and the importance of scaling workouts as needed to create longevity in CrossFit as a sport and a lifestyle.Throughout the episode, Flores also talks about balancing her career as an athlete and her husband Randy's career as a strength and conditioning coach for the Los Angeles Lakers, dealing with insecurities, and competing at the Rogue Invitational.Tune in to hear more of Flores' story.

This is the The Guerilla Cricket Podcast and on this episode we have highlights from Game 41 at the ICC Cricket World Cup in India. New Zealand won the toss and elected to bowl first, what a great decision. Bar Kusal Perera's swashbuckling 51 SL fell to 70-5 inside the power play and never really recovered. A solid opening stand by Ravindra and Conway set NZ to chase it down in quick time to almost certainly nail on that semi final spot. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On Thursday's Rugby Daily, Richie McCormack brings you the sad news of Andrew Conway's immediate retirement. Oli Jager looks set to return to Ireland having given his notice at the Crusaders. Ulster and Munster name their teams for their interpro derby, with plenty of Ireland internationals back in the fold. And Scotland scrum-half Ali Price makes a move in the national interest.

Two years ago, there was a split among public opinion about the efficacy of Covid-19 protection methods. Now, our guest contends that even more widespread distrust of public health officials bodes a dangerous future, should another widespread epidemic arise. A Christian psychology professor says the challenge came when scientists went beyond measuring and analyzing data, also making decisions which should be the prerogative of the elected leaders, or of the people.  Luke Conway is on the faculty of Grove City College. He says it became hard to "follow the science" when some of the scientists were against doing good science by refusing to consider other scientific evidence and other researchers' observations. Conway contends that most of those who lean into authoritarianism, censorship or name-calling are primarily motivated by fear. He quotes Scripture that "perfect love casts out fear." [1 John 4:8] In this Family Life Interview, he also emphasizes the roles for politicians and the general public to take all the available information -- from all angles and emphases -- and come up with the best decisions. He ends the conversation with his prescription for navigating social strife and cultural disagreements. A Christ-mandated involvement will bring about restoration, consensus and hope --- when people of faith start with a good dose of humility, a commitment to love those who disagree, and seek the best welfare of the city, nation or community.   "Early in the pandemic, Dr. Anthony Fauci is reported to have said to Donald Trump: “I just do medical advice. I don't think about things like the economy and the secondary impacts. I'm just an infectious diseases doctor. Your job as president is to take everything else into consideration.”  --Luke G. Conway, writing for the Institute for Faith and Freedom at Grove City, PA. His full essay on the topic (using a sports rulebook analogy) is e-published here. Luke Conway is also a fellow at the Institute for Faith and Freedom, and frequently writes about academic research and socio-political trends.  

SF folks: join us at the AI Engineer Foundation's Emergency Hackathon tomorrow and consider the Newton if you'd like to cowork in the heart of the Cerebral Arena.Our community page is up to date as usual!~800,000 developers watched OpenAI Dev Day, ~8,000 of whom listened along live on our ThursdAI x Latent Space, and ~800 of whom got tickets to attend in person:OpenAI's first developer conference easily surpassed most people's lowballed expectations - they simply did everything short of announcing GPT-5, including:* ChatGPT (the consumer facing product)* GPT4 Turbo already in ChatGPT (running faster, with an April 2023 cutoff), all noticed by users weeks before the conference* Model picker eliminated, God Model chooses for you* GPTs - “tailored version of ChatGPT for a specific purpose” - stopping short of “Agents”. With custom instructions, expanded knowledge, and actions, and an intuitive no-code GPT Builder UI (we tried all these on our livestream yesterday and found some issues, but also were able to ship interesting GPTs very quickly) and a GPT store with revenue sharing (an important criticism we focused on in our episode on ChatGPT Plugins)* API (the developer facing product)* APIs for Dall-E 3, GPT4 Vision, Code Interpreter (RIP Advanced Data Analysis), GPT4 Finetuning and (surprise!) Text to Speech* many thought each of these would take much longer to arrive* usable in curl and in playground* BYO Interpreter + Async Agents?* Assistant API: stateful API backing “GPTs” like apps, with support for calling multiple tools in parallel, persistent Threads (storing message history, unlimited context window with some asterisks), and uploading/accessing Files (with a possibly-too-simple RAG algorithm, and expensive pricing)* Whisper 3 announced and open sourced (HuggingFace recap)* Price drops for a bunch of things!* Misc: Custom Models for big spending ($2-3m) customers, Copyright Shield, SatyaThe progress here feels fast, but it is mostly (incredible) last-mile execution on model capabilities that we already knew to exist. On reflection it is important to understand that the one guiding principle of OpenAI, even more than being Open (we address that in part 2 of today's pod), is that slow takeoff of AGI is the best scenario for humanity, and that this is what slow takeoff looks like:When introducing GPTs, Sam was careful to assert that “gradual iterative deployment is the best way to address the safety challenges with AI”:This is why, in fact, GPTs and Assistants are intentionally underpowered, and it is a useful exercise to consider what else OpenAI continues to consider dangerous (for example, many people consider a while(true) loop a core driver of an agent, which GPTs conspicuously lack, though Lilian Weng of OpenAI does not).We convened the crew to deliver the best recap of OpenAI Dev Day in Latent Space pod style, with a 1hr deep dive with the Functions pod crew from 5 months ago, and then another hour with past and future guests live from the venue itself, discussing various elements of how these updates affect their thinking and startups. Enjoy!Show Notes* swyx live thread (see pinned messages in Twitter Space for extra links from community)* Newton AI Coworking Interest Form in the heart of the Cerebral ArenaTimestamps* [00:00:00] Introduction* [00:01:59] Part I: Latent Space Pod Recap* [00:06:16] GPT4 Turbo and Assistant API* [00:13:45] JSON mode* [00:15:39] Plugins vs GPT Actions* [00:16:48] What is a "GPT"?* [00:21:02] Criticism: the God Model* [00:22:48] Criticism: ChatGPT changes* [00:25:59] "GPTs" is a genius marketing move* [00:26:59] RIP Advanced Data Analysis* [00:28:50] GPT Creator as AI Prompt Engineer* [00:31:16] Zapier and Prompt Injection* [00:34:09] Copyright Shield* [00:38:03] Sharable GPTs solve the API distribution issue* [00:39:07] Voice* [00:44:59] Vision* [00:49:48] In person experience* [00:55:11] Part II: Spot Interviews* [00:56:05] Jim Fan (Nvidia - High Level Takeaways)* [01:05:35] Raza Habib (Humanloop) - Foundation Model Ops* [01:13:59] Surya Dantuluri (Stealth) - RIP Plugins* [01:21:20] Reid Robinson (Zapier) - AI Actions for GPTs* [01:31:19] Div Garg (MultiOn) - GPT4V for Agents* [01:37:15] Louis Knight-Webb (Bloop.ai) - AI Code Search* [01:49:21] Shreya Rajpal (Guardrails.ai) - on Hallucinations* [01:59:51] Alex Volkov (Weights & Biases, ThursdAI) - "Keeping AI Open"* [02:10:26] Rahul Sonwalkar (Julius AI) - Advice for FoundersTranscript[00:00:00] Introduction[00:00:00] swyx: Hey everyone, this is Swyx coming at you live from the Newton, which is in the heart of the Cerebral Arena. It is a new AI co working space that I and a couple of friends are working out of. There are hot desks available if you're interested, just check the show notes. But otherwise, obviously, it's been 24 hours since the opening of Dev Day, a lot of hot reactions and longstanding tradition, one of the longest traditions we've had.[00:00:29] And the latent space pod is to convene emergency sessions and record the live thoughts of developers and founders going through and processing in real time. I think a lot of the roles of podcasts isn't as perfect information delivery channels, but really as an audio and oral history of what's going on as it happens, while it happens.[00:00:49] So this one's a little unusual. Previously, we only just gathered on Twitter Spaces, and then just had a bunch of people. The last one was the Code Interpreter one with 22, 000 people showed up. But this one is a little bit more complicated because there's an in person element and then a online element.[00:01:06] So this is a two part episode. The first part is a recorded session between our latent space people and Simon Willison and Alex Volkoff from the Thursday iPod, just kind of recapping the day. But then also, as the second hour, I managed to get a bunch of interviews with previous guests on the pod who we're still friends with and some new people that we haven't yet had on the pod.[00:01:28] But I wanted to just get their quick reactions because most of you have known and loved Jim Fan and Div Garg and a bunch of other folks that we interviewed. So I just want to, I'm excited to introduce To you the broader scope of what it's like to be at OpenAI Dev Day in person bring you the audio experience as well as give you some of the thoughts that developers are having as they process the announcements from OpenAI.[00:01:51] So first off, we have the Mainspace Pod recap. One hour of open I dev day.[00:01:59] Part I: Latent Space Pod Recap[00:01:59] Alessio: Hey. Welcome to the Latents Based Podcast an emergency edition after OpenAI Dev Day. This is Alessio, partner and CTO of Residence at Decibel Partners, and as usual, I'm joined by Swyx, founder of SmallAI. Hey,[00:02:12] swyx: and today we have two special guests with us covering all the latest and greatest.[00:02:17] We, we, we love to get our band together and recap things, especially when they're big. And it seems like that every three months we have to do this. So Alex, welcome. From Thursday AI we've been collaborating a lot on the Twitter spaces and welcome Simon from many, many things, but also I think you're the first person to not, not make four appearances on our pod.[00:02:37] Oh, wow. I feel privileged. So welcome. Yeah, I think we're all there yesterday. How... Do we feel like, what do you want to kick off with? Maybe Simon, you want to, you want to take first and then Alex. Sure. Yeah. I mean,[00:02:47] Simon Willison: yesterday was quite exhausting, quite frankly. I feel like it's going to take us as a community several months just to completely absorb all of the stuff that they dropped on us in one giant.[00:02:57] Giant batch. It's particularly impressive considering they launched a ton of features, what, three or four weeks ago? ChatGPT voice and the combined mode and all of that kind of thing. And then they followed up with everything from yesterday. That said, now that I've started digging into the stuff that they released yesterday, some of it is clearly in need of a bit more polish.[00:03:15] You know, the the, the reality of what they look, what they released is I'd say about 80 percent of, of what it looks like it was yesterday, which is still impressive. You know, don't get me wrong. This is an amazing batch of stuff, but there are definitely problems and sharp edges that we need to file off.[00:03:29] And there are things that we still need to figure out before we can take advantage of all of this.[00:03:33] swyx: Yeah, agreed, agreed. And we can go into those, those sharp edges in a bit. I just want to pop over to Alex. What are your thoughts?[00:03:39] Alex Volkov: So, interestingly, even folks at OpenAI, there's like several booths and help desks so you can go in and ask people, like, actual changes and people, like, they could follow up with, like, the right people in OpenAI and, like, answer you back, etc.[00:03:52] Even some of them didn't know about all the changes. So I went to the voice and audio booth. And I asked them about, like, hey, is Whisper 3 that was announced by Sam Altman on stage just, like, briefly, will that be open source? Because I'm, you know, I love using Whisper. And they're like, oh, did we open source?[00:04:06] Did we talk about Whisper 3? Like, some of them didn't even know what they were releasing. But overall, I felt it was a very tightly run event. Like, I was really impressed. Shawn, we were sitting in the audience, and you, like, pointed at the clock to me when they finished. They finished, like, on... And this was after like doing some extra stuff.[00:04:24] Very, very impressive for a first event. Like I was absolutely like, Good job.[00:04:30] swyx: Yeah, apparently it was their first keynote and someone, I think, was it you that told me that this is what happens if you have A president of Y Combinator do a proper keynote you know, having seen many, many, many presentations by other startups this is sort of the sort of master stroke.[00:04:46] Yeah, Alessio, I think you were watching remotely. Yeah, we were at the Newton. Yeah, the Newton.[00:04:52] Alessio: Yeah, I think we had 60 people here at the watch party, so it was quite a big crowd. Mixed reaction from different... Founders and people, depending on what was being announced on the page. But I think everybody walked away kind of really happy with a new layer of interfaces they can use.[00:05:11] I think, to me, the biggest takeaway was like and I was talking with Mike Conover, another friend of the podcast, about this is they're kind of staying in the single threaded, like, synchronous use cases lane, you know? Like, the GPDs announcement are all like... Still, chatbase, one on one synchronous things.[00:05:28] I was expecting, maybe, something about async things, like background running agents, things like that. But it's interesting to see there was nothing of that, so. I think if you're a founder in that space, you're, you're quite excited. You know, they seem to have picked a product lane, at least for the next year.[00:05:45] So, if you're working on... Async experiences, so things working in the background, things that are not co pilot like, I think you're quite excited to have them be a lot cheaper now.[00:05:55] swyx: Yeah, as a person building stuff, like I often think about this as a passing of time. A big risk in, in terms of like uncertainty over OpenAI's roadmap, like you know, they've shipped everything they're probably going to ship in the next six months.[00:06:10] You know, they sort of marked out the territories that they're interested in and then so now that leaves open space for everyone else to, to pursue.[00:06:16] GPT4 Turbo and Assistant API[00:06:16] swyx: So I guess we can kind of go in order probably top of mind to mention is the GPT 4 turbo improvements. Yeah, so longer context length, cheaper price.[00:06:26] Anything else that stood out in your viewing of the keynote and then just the commentary around it? I[00:06:34] Alex Volkov: was I was waiting for Stateful. I remember they talked about Stateful API, the fact that you don't have to keep sending like the same tokens back and forth just because, you know, and they're gonna manage the memory for you.[00:06:45] So I was waiting for that. I knew it was coming at some point. I was kind of... I did not expect it to come at this event. I don't know why. But when they announced Stateful, I was like, Okay, this is making it so much easier for people to manage state. The whole threads I don't want to mix between the two things, so maybe you guys can clarify, but there's the GPT 4 tool, which is the model that has the capabilities, In a whopping 128k, like, context length, right?[00:07:11] It's huge. It's like two and a half books. But also, you know, faster, cheaper, etc. I haven't yet tested the fasterness, but like, everybody's excited about that. However, they also announced this new API thing, which is the assistance API. And part of it is threads, which is, we'll manage the thread for you.[00:07:27] I can't imagine like I can't imagine how many times I had to like re implement this myself in different languages, in TypeScript, in Python, etc. And now it's like, it's so easy. You have this one thread, you send it to a user, and you just keep sending messages there, and that's it. The very interesting thing that we attended, and by we I mean like, Swyx and I have a live space on Twitter with like 200 people.[00:07:46] So it's like me, Swyx, and 200 people in our earphones with us as well. They kept asking like, well, how's the price happening? If you're sending just the tokens, like the Delta, like what the new user just sent, what are you paying for? And I went to OpenAI people, and I was like, hey... How do we get paid for this?[00:08:01] And nobody knew, nobody knew, and I finally got an answer. You still pay for the whole context that you have inside the thread. You still pay for all this, but now it's a little bit more complex for you to kind of count with TikTok, right? So you have to hit another API endpoint to get the whole thread of what the context is.[00:08:17] Then TikTokonize this, run this in TikTok, and then calculate. This is now the new way, officially, for OpenAI. But I really did, like, have to go and find this. They didn't know a lot of, like, how the pricing is. Ouch! Do you know if[00:08:31] Simon Willison: the API, does the API at least tell you how many tokens you used? Or is it entirely up to you to do the accounting?[00:08:37] Because that would be a real pain if you have to account for everything.[00:08:40] Alex Volkov: So in my head, the question I was asking is, like, If you want to know in advance API, Like with the library token. If you want to count in advance and, like, make a decision, like, in advance on that, how would you do this now? And they said, well, yeah, there's a way.[00:08:54] If you hit the API, get the whole thread back, then count the tokens. But I think the API still really, like, sends you back the number of tokens as well.[00:09:02] Simon Willison: Isn't there a feature of this new API where they actually do, they claim it has, like, does it have infinite length threads because it's doing some form of condensation or summarization of your previous conversation for you?[00:09:15] I heard that from somewhere, but I haven't confirmed it yet.[00:09:18] swyx: So I have, I have a source from Dave Valdman. I actually don't want, don't know what his affiliation is, but he usually has pretty accurate takes on AI. So I, I think he works in the iCircles in some capacity. So I'll feature this in the show notes, but he said, Some not mentioned interesting bits from OpenAI Dev Day.[00:09:33] One unlimited. context window and chat threads from opening our docs. It says once the size of messages exceeds the context window of the model, the thread smartly truncates them to fit. I'm not sure I want that intelligence.[00:09:44] Alex Volkov: I want to chime in here just real quick. The not want this intelligence. I heard this from multiple people over the next conversation that I had. Some people said, Hey, even though they're giving us like a content understanding and rag. We are doing different things. Some people said this with Vision as well.[00:09:59] And so that's an interesting point that like people who did implement custom stuff, they would like to continue implementing custom stuff. That's also like an additional point that I've heard people talk about.[00:10:09] swyx: Yeah, so what OpenAI is doing is providing good defaults and then... Well, good is questionable.[00:10:14] We'll talk about that. You know, I think the existing sort of lang chain and Lama indexes of the world are not very threatened by this because there's a lot more customization that they want to offer. Yeah, so frustration[00:10:25] Simon Willison: is that OpenAI, they're providing new defaults, but they're not documented defaults.[00:10:30] Like they haven't told us how their RAG implementation works. Like, how are they chunking the documents? How are they doing retrieval? Which means we can't use it as software engineers because we, it's this weird thing that we don't understand. And there's no reason not to tell us that. Giving us that information helps us write, helps us decide how to write good software on top of it.[00:10:48] So that's kind of frustrating. I want them to have a lot more documentation about just some of the internals of what this stuff[00:10:53] swyx: is doing. Yeah, I want to highlight.[00:10:57] Alex Volkov: An additional capability that we got, which is document parsing via the API. I was, like, blown away by this, right? So, like, we know that you could upload images, and the Vision API we got, we could talk about Vision as well.[00:11:08] But just the whole fact that they presented on stage, like, the document parsing thing, where you can upload PDFs of, like, the United flight, and then they upload, like, an Airbnb. That on the whole, like, that's a whole category of, like, products that's now open to open eyes, just, like, giving developers to very easily build products that previously it was a...[00:11:24] Pain in the butt for many, many people. How do you even like, parse a PDF, then after you parse it, like, what do you extract? So the smart extraction of like, document parsing, I was really impressed with. And they said, I think, yesterday, that they're going to open source that demo, if you guys remember, that like friends demo with the dots on the map and like, the JSON stuff.[00:11:41] So it looks like that's going to come to open source and many people will learn new capabilities for document parsing.[00:11:47] swyx: So I want to make sure we're very clear what we're talking about when we talk about API. When you say API, there's no actual endpoint that does this, right? You're talking about the chat GPT's GPT's functionality.[00:11:58] Alex Volkov: No, I'm talking about the assistance API. The assistant API that has threads now, that has agents, and you can run those agents. I actually, maybe let's clarify this point. I think I had to, somebody had to clarify this for me. There's the GPT's. Which is a UI version of running agents. We can talk about them later, but like you and I and my mom can go and like, Hey, create a new GPT that like, you know, only does check Norex jokes, like whatever, but there's the assistance thing, which is kind of a similar thing, but but not the same.[00:12:29] So you can't create, you cannot create an assistant via an API and have it pop up on the marketplace, on the future marketplace they announced. How can you not? No, no, no, not via the API. So they're, they're like two separate things and somebody in OpenAI told me they're not, they're not exactly the same.[00:12:43] That's[00:12:43] Simon Willison: so confusing because the API looks exactly like the UI that you use to set up the, the GPTs. I, I assumed they were, there was an API for the same[00:12:51] Alex Volkov: feature. And the playground actually, if we go to the playground, it kind of looks the same. There's like the configurable thing. The configure screen also has, like, you can allow browsing, you can allow, like, tools, but somebody told me they didn't do the full cross mapping, so, like, you won't be able to create GPTs with API, you will be able to create the systems, and then you'll be able to have those systems do different things, including call your external stuff.[00:13:13] So that was pretty cool. So this API is called the system API. That's what we get, like, in addition to the model of the GPT 4 turbo. And that has document parsing. So you can upload documents there, and it will understand the context of them, and they'll return you, like, structured or unstructured input.[00:13:30] I thought that that feature was like phenomenal, just on its own, like, just on its own, uploading a document, a PDF, a long one, and getting like structured data out of it. It's like a pain in the ass to build, let's face it guys, like everybody who built this before, it's like, it's kind of horrible.[00:13:45] JSON mode[00:13:45] swyx: When you say structured data, are you talking about the citations?[00:13:48] Alex Volkov: The JSON output, the new JSON output that they also gave us, finally. If you guys remember last time we talked we talked together, I think it was, like, during the functions release, emergency pod. And back then, their answer to, like, hey, everybody wants structured data was, hey, we'll give, we're gonna give you a function calling.[00:14:03] And now, they did both. They gave us both, like, a JSON output, like, structure. So, like, you can, the models are actually going to return JSON. Haven't played with it myself, but that's what they announced. And the second thing is, they improved the function calling. Significantly as well.[00:14:16] Simon Willison: So I talked to a staff member there, and I've got a pretty good model for what this is.[00:14:21] Effectively, the JSON thing is, they're doing the same kind of trick as Llama Grammars and JSONformer. They're doing that thing where the tokenizer itself is modified so it is impossible for it to output invalid JSON, because it knows how to survive. Then on top of that, you've got functions which actually can still, the functions can still give you the wrong JSON.[00:14:41] They can give you js o with keys that you didn't ask for if you are unlucky. But at least it will be valid. At least it'll pass through a json passer. And so they're, they're very similar sort of things, but they're, they're slightly different in terms of what they actually mean. And yeah, the new function stuff is, is super exciting.[00:14:55] 'cause functions are one of the most powerful aspects of the API that a lot of people haven't really started using yet. But it's amazingly powerful what you can do with it.[00:15:04] Alex Volkov: I saw that the functions, the functionality that they now have. is also plug in able as actions to those assistants. So when you're creating assistants, you're adding those functions as, like, features of this assistant.[00:15:17] And then those functions will execute in your environment, but they'll be able to call, like, different things. Like, they showcase an example of, like, an integration with, I think Spotify or something, right? And that was, like, an internal function that ran. But it is confusing, the kind of, the online assistant.[00:15:32] APIable agents and the GPT's agents. So I think it's a little confusing because they demoed both. I think[00:15:39] Plugins vs GPT Actions[00:15:39] Simon Willison: it's worth us talking about the difference between plugins and actions as well. Because, you know, they launched plugins, what, back in February. And they've effectively... They've kind of deprecated plugins.[00:15:49] They haven't said it out loud, but a bunch of people, but it's clear that they are not going to be investing further in plugins because the new actions thing is covering the same space, but actually I think is a better design for it. Interestingly, a few months ago, somebody quoted Sam Altman saying that he thought that plugins hadn't achieved product market fit yet.[00:16:06] And I feel like that's sort of what we're seeing today. The the problem with plugins is it was all a little bit messy. People would pick and mix the plugins that they needed. Nobody really knew which plugin combinations would work. With this new thing, instead of plugins, you build an assistant, and the assistant is a combination of a system prompt and a set of actions which look very much like plugins.[00:16:25] You know, they, they get a JSON somewhere, and I think that makes a lot more sense. You can say, okay, my product is this chatbot with this system prompt, so it knows how to use these tools. I've given it this combination of plugin like things that it can use. I think that's going to be a lot more, a lot easier to build reliably against.[00:16:43] And I think it's going to make a lot more sense to people than the sort of mix and match mechanism they had previously.[00:16:48] What is a "GPT"?[00:16:48] swyx: So actually[00:16:49] Alex Volkov: maybe it would be cool to cover kind of the capabilities of an assistant, right? So you have a custom prompt, which is akin to a system message. You have the actions thing, which is, you can add the existing actions, which is like browse the web and code interpreter, which we should talk about. Like, the system now can write code and execute it, which is exciting. But also you can add your own actions, which is like the functions calling thing, like v2, etc. Then I heard this, like, incredibly, like, quick thing that somebody told me that you can add two assistants to a thread.[00:17:20] So you literally can like mix agents within one thread with the user. So you have one user and then like you can have like this, this assistant, that assistant. They just glanced over this and I was like, that, that is very interesting. That is not very interesting. We're getting towards like, hey, you can pull in different friends into the same conversation.[00:17:37] Everybody does the different thing. What other capabilities do we have there? You guys remember? Oh Remember, like, context. Uploading API documentation.[00:17:48] Simon Willison: Well, that one's a bit more complicated. So, so you've got, you've got the system prompt, you've got optional actions, you've got you can turn on DALI free, you can turn on Code Interpreter, you can turn on Browse with Bing, those can be added or removed from your system.[00:18:00] And then you can upload files into it. And the files can be used in two different ways. You can... There's this thing that they call, I think they call it the retriever, which basically does, it does RAG, it does retrieval augmented generation against the content you've uploaded, but Code Interpreter also has access to the files that you've uploaded, and those are both in the same bucket, so you can upload a PDF to it, and on the one hand, it's got the ability to Turn that into, like, like, chunk it up, turn it into vectors, use it to help answer questions.[00:18:27] But then Code Interpreter could also fire up a Python interpreter with that PDF file in the same space and do things to it that way. And it's kind of weird that they chose to combine both of those things. Also, the limits are amazing, right? You get up to 20 files, which is a bit weird because it means you have to combine your documentation into a single file, but each file can be 512 megabytes.[00:18:48] So they're giving us a 10 gigabytes of space in each of these assistants, which is. Vast, right? And of course, I tested, it'll handle SQLite databases. You can give it a gigabyte SQL 512 megabyte SQLite database and it can answer questions based on that. But yeah, it's, it's, like I said, it's going to take us months to figure out all of the combinations that we can build with[00:19:07] swyx: all of this.[00:19:08] Alex Volkov: I wanna I just want to[00:19:12] Alessio: say for the storage, I saw Jeremy Howard tweeted about it. It's like 20 cents per gigabyte per system per day. Just in... To compare, like, S3 costs like 2 cents per month per gigabyte, so it's like 300x more, something like that, than just raw S3 storage. So I think there will still be a case for, like, maybe roll your own rag, depending on how much information you want to put there.[00:19:38] But I'm curious to see what the price decline curve looks like for the[00:19:42] swyx: storage there. Yeah, they probably should just charge that at cost. There's no reason for them to charge so much.[00:19:50] Simon Willison: That is wildly expensive. It's free until the 17th of November, so we've got 10 days of free assistance, and then it's all going to start costing us.[00:20:00] Crikey. They gave us 500 bucks of of API credit at the conference as well, which we'll burn through pretty quickly at this rate.[00:20:07] swyx: Yep.[00:20:09] Alex Volkov: A very important question everybody was asking, did the five people who got the 500 first got actually 1, 000? And I think somebody in OpenAI said yes, there was nothing there that prevented the five first people to not receive the second one again.[00:20:21] I[00:20:22] swyx: met one of them. I met one of them. He said he only got 500. Ah,[00:20:25] Alex Volkov: interesting. Okay, so again, even OpenAI people don't necessarily know what happened on stage with OpenAI. Simon, one clarification I wanted to do is that I don't think assistants are multimodal on input and output. So you do have vision, I believe.[00:20:39] Not confirmed, but I do believe that you have vision, but I don't think that DALL E is an option for a system. It is an option for GPTs, but the guy... Oh, that's so confusing! The systems, the checkbox for DALL E is not there. You cannot enable it.[00:20:54] swyx: But you just add them as a tool, right? So, like, it's just one more...[00:20:58] It's a little finicky... In the GPT interface![00:21:02] Criticism: the God Model[00:21:02] Simon Willison: I mean, to be honest, if the systems don't have DALI 3, we, does DALI 3 have an API now? I think they released one. I can't, there's so much stuff that got lost in the pile. But yeah, so, Coded Interpreter. Wow! That I was not expecting. That's, that's huge. Assuming.[00:21:20] I mean, I haven't tried it yet. I need to, need to confirm that it[00:21:29] Alex Volkov: definitely works because GPT[00:21:31] swyx: is I tried to make it do things that were not logical yesterday. Because one of the risks of having the God model is it calls... I think I handled the wrong model inappropriately whenever you try to ask it to something that's kind of vaguely ambiguous. But I thought I thought it handled the job decently well.[00:21:50] Like you know, I I think there's still going to be rough edges. Like it's going to try to draw things. It's going to try to code when you don't actually want to. And. In a sense, OpenAI is kind of removing that capability from ChargeGPT. Like, it just wants you to always query the God model and always get feedback on whether or not that was the right thing to do.[00:22:09] Which really[00:22:10] Simon Willison: sucks. Because it runs... I like ask it a question and it goes, Oh, searching Bing. And I'm like, No, don't search Bing. I know that the first 10 results on Bing will not solve this question. I know you know the answer. So I had to build my own custom GPT that just turns off Bing. Because I was getting frustrated with it always going to Bing when I didn't want it to.[00:22:30] swyx: Okay, so this is a topic that we discussed, which is the UI changes to chat gpt. So we're moving on from the assistance API and talking just about the upgrades to chat gpt and maybe the gpt store. You did not like it.[00:22:44] Alex Volkov: And I loved it. I'm gonna take both sides of this, yeah.[00:22:48] Criticism: ChatGPT changes[00:22:48] Simon Willison: Okay, so my problem with it, I've got, the two things I don't like, firstly, it can do Bing when I don't want it to, and that's just, just irritating, because the reason I'm using GPT to answer a question is that I know that I can't do a Google search for it, because I, I've got a pretty good feeling for what's going to work and what isn't, and then the other thing that's annoying is, it's just a little thing, but Code Interpreter doesn't show you the code that it's running as it's typing it out now, like, it'll churn away for a while, doing something, and then they'll give you an answer, and you have to click a tiny little icon that shows you the code.[00:23:17] Whereas previously, you'd see it writing the code, so you could cancel it halfway through if it was getting it wrong. And okay, I'm a Python programmer, so I care, and most people don't. But that's been a bit annoying.[00:23:26] swyx: Yeah, and when it errors, it doesn't tell you what the error is. It just says analysis failed, and it tries again.[00:23:32] But it's really hard for us to help it.[00:23:34] Simon Willison: Yeah. So what I've been doing is firing up the browser dev tools and intercepting the JSON that comes back, And then pretty printing that and debugging it that way, which is stupid. Like, why do I have to do[00:23:45] Alex Volkov: that? Totally good feedback for OpenAI. I will tell you guys what I loved about this unified mode.[00:23:49] I have a name for it. So we actually got a preview of this on Sunday. And one of the, one of the folks got, got like an early example of this. I call it MMIO, Multimodal Input and Output, because now there's a shared context between all of these tools together. And I think it's not only about selecting them just selecting them.[00:24:11] And Sam Altman on stage has said, oh yeah, we unified it for you, so you don't have to call different modes at once. And in my head, that's not all they did. They gave a shared context. So what is an example of shared context, for example? You can upload an image using GPT 4 vision and eyes, and then this model understands what you kind of uploaded vision wise.[00:24:28] Then you can ask DALI to draw that thing. So there's no text shared in between those modes now. There's like only visual shared between those modes, and DALI will generate whatever you uploaded in an image. So like it's eyes to output visually. And you can mix the things as well. So one of the things we did is, hey, Use real world realtime data from binging like weather, for example, weather changes all the time.[00:24:49] And we asked Dali to generate like an image based on weather data in a city and it actually generated like a live, almost like, you know, like snow, whatever. It was snowing in Denver. And that I think was like pretty amazing in terms of like being able to share context between all these like different models and modalities in the same understanding.[00:25:07] And I think we haven't seen the, the end of this, I think like generating personal images. Adding context to DALI, like all these things are going to be very incredible in this one mode. I think it's very, very powerful.[00:25:19] Simon Willison: I think that's really cool. I just want to opt in as opposed to opt out. Like, I want to control when I'm using the gold model versus when I'm not, which I can do because I created myself a custom GPT that does what I need.[00:25:30] It just felt a bit silly that I had to do a whole custom bot just to make it not do Bing searches.[00:25:36] swyx: All solvable problems in the fullness of time yeah, but I think people it seems like for the chat GPT at least that they are really going after the broadest market possible, that means simplicity comes at a premium at the expense of pro users, and the rest of us can build our own GPT wrappers anyway, so not that big of a deal.[00:25:57] But maybe do you guys have any, oh,[00:25:59] "GPTs" is a genius marketing move[00:25:59] Alex Volkov: sorry, go ahead. So, the GPT wrappers thing. Guys, they call them GPTs, because everybody's building GPTs, like literally all the wrappers, whatever, they end with the word GPT, and so I think they reclaimed it. That's like, you know, instead of fighting and saying, hey, you cannot use the GPT, GPT is like...[00:26:15] We have GPTs now. This is our marketplace. Whatever everybody else builds, we have the marketplace. This is our thing. I think they did like a whole marketing move here that's significant.[00:26:24] swyx: It's a very strong marketing move. Because now it's called Canva GPT. It's called Zapier GPT. And they're basically saying, Don't build your own websites.[00:26:32] Build it inside of our Goddard app, which is chatGPT. And and that's the way that we want you to do that. Right. In a[00:26:39] Simon Willison: way, it sort of makes up... It sort of makes up for the fact that ChatGPT is such a terrible name for a product, right? ChatGPT, what were they thinking when they came up with that name?[00:26:48] But I guess if they lean into it, it makes a little bit more sense. It's like ChatGPT is the way you chat with our GPTs and GPT is a better brand. And it's terrible, but it's not. It's a better brand than ChatGPT was.[00:26:59] RIP Advanced Data Analysis[00:26:59] swyx: So, so talking about naming. Yeah. Yeah. Simon, actually, so for those listeners that we're.[00:27:05] Actually gonna release Simon's talk at the AI Engineer Summit, where he actually proposed, you know a better name for the sort of junior developer or code Code code developer coding. Coding intern.[00:27:16] Simon Willison: Coding intern. Coding intern, yeah. Coding intern, was it? Yeah. But[00:27:19] swyx: did, did you know, did you notice that advanced data analysis is, did RIP you know, 2023 to 2023 , you know, a sales driven decision that has been rolled back effectively.[00:27:29] 'cause now everything's just called.[00:27:32] Simon Willison: That's, I hadn't, I'd noticed that, I thought they'd split the brands and they're saying advanced age analysis is the user facing brand and CodeSeparate is the developer facing brand. But now if they, have they ditched that from the interface then?[00:27:43] Alex Volkov: Yeah. Wow. So it's unified mode.[00:27:45] Yeah. Yeah. So like in the unified mode, there's no selection anymore. Right. You just get all tools at once. So there's no reason.[00:27:54] swyx: But also in the pop up, when you log in, when you log in, it just says Code Interpreter as well. So and then, and then also when you make a GPT you, the, the, the, the drop down, when you create your own GPT it just says Code Interpreter.[00:28:06] It also doesn't say it. You're right. Yeah. They ditched the brand. Good Lord. On the UI. Yeah. So oh, that's, that's amazing. Okay. Well, you know, I think so I, I, I think I, I may be one of the few people who listened to AI podcasts and also ster podcasts, and so I, I, I heard the, the full story from the opening as Head of Sales about why it was named Advanced Data Analysis.[00:28:26] It was, I saw that, yeah. Yeah. There's a bit of civil resistance, I think from the. engineers in the room.[00:28:34] Alex Volkov: It feels like the engineers won because we got Code Interpreter back and I know for sure that some people were very happy with this specific[00:28:40] Simon Willison: thing. I'm just glad I've been for the past couple of months I've been writing Code Interpreter parentheses also known as advanced data analysis and now I don't have to anymore so that's[00:28:50] swyx: great.[00:28:50] GPT Creator as AI Prompt Engineer[00:28:50] swyx: Yeah, yeah, it's back. Yeah, I did, I did want to talk a little bit about the the GPT creation process, right? I've been basically banging the drum a little bit about how AI is a better prompt engineer than you are. And sorry, my. Speaking over Simon because I'm lagging. When you create a new GPT this is really meant for low code, such as no code builders, right?[00:29:10] It's really, I guess, no code at all. Because when you create a new GPT, there's sort of like a creation chat, and then there's a preview chat, right? And the creation chat kind of guides you through the wizard. Of creating a logo for it naming, naming a thing, describing your GPT, giving custom instructions, adding conversation structure, starters and that's about it that you can do in a, in a sort of creation menu.[00:29:31] But I think that is way better than filling out a form. Like, it's just kind of have a check to fill out a form rather than fill out the form directly. And I think that's really good. And then you can sort of preview that directly. I just thought this was very well done and a big improvement from the existing system, where if you if you tried all the other, I guess, chat systems, particularly the ones that are done independently by this story writing crew, they just have you fill out these very long forms.[00:29:58] It's kind of like the match. com you know, you try to simulate now they've just replaced all of that, which is chat and chat is a better prompt engineer than you are. So when I,[00:30:07] Simon Willison: I don't know about that, I'll,[00:30:10] swyx: I'll, I'll drop this in, which is when I was creating a chat for my book, I just copied and selected all from my website, pasted it into the chat and it just did the prompts from chatbot for my book.[00:30:21] Right? So like, I don't have to structurally, I don't have to structure it. I can just dump info in it and it just does the thing. It fills in the form[00:30:30] Alex Volkov: for you.[00:30:33] Simon Willison: Yeah did that come through?[00:30:34] swyx: Yes[00:30:35] Simon Willison: no it doesn't. Yeah I built the first one of these things using the chatbot. Literally, on the bot, on my phone, I built a working, like, like, bot.[00:30:44] It was very impressive. And then the next three I built using the form. Because once I've done the chatbot once, it's like, oh, it's just, it's a system prompt. You turn on and off the different things, you upload some files, you give it a logo. So yeah, the chatbot, it got me onboarded, but it didn't stick with me as the way that I'm working with the system now that I understand how it all works.[00:31:00] swyx: I understand. Yeah, I agree with that. I guess, again, this is all about the total newbie user, right? Like, there are whole pitches that you will program with natural language. And even the form... And for that, it worked.[00:31:12] Simon Willison: Yeah, that did work really well.[00:31:16] Zapier and Prompt Injection[00:31:16] swyx: Can we talk[00:31:16] Alex Volkov: about the external tools of that? Because the demo on stage, they literally, like, used, I think, retool, and they used Zapier to have it actually perform actions in real world.[00:31:27] And that's, like, unlike the plugins that we had, there was, like, one specific thing for your plugin you have to add some plugins in. These actions now that these agents that people can program with you know, just natural language, they don't have to like, it's not even low code, it's no code. They now have tools and abilities in the actual world to do things.[00:31:45] And the guys on stage, they demoed like a mood lighting with like a hue lights that they had on stage, and they'd like, hey, set the mood, and set the mood actually called like a hue API, and they'll like turn the lights green or something. And then they also had the Spotify API. And so I guess this demo wasn't live streamed, right?[00:32:03] Swyx was live. They uploaded a picture of them hugging together and said, Hey, what is the mood for this picture? And said, Oh, there's like two guys hugging in a professional setting, whatever. So they created like a list of songs for them to play. And then they hit Spotify API to actually start playing this.[00:32:17] All within like a second of a live demo. I thought it was very impressive for a low code thing. They probably already connected the API behind the scenes. So, you know, just like low code, it's not really no code. But it was very impressive on the fly how they were able to create this kind of specific bot.[00:32:32] Simon Willison: On the one hand, yes, it was super, super cool. I can't wait to try that. On the other hand, it was a prompt injection nightmare. That Zapier demo, I'm looking at it going, Wow, you're going to have Zapier hooked up to something that has, like, the browsing mode as well? Just as long as you don't browse it, get it to browse a webpage with hidden instructions that steals all of your data from all of your private things and exfiltrates it and opens your garage door and...[00:32:56] Set your lighting to dark red. It's a nightmare. They didn't acknowledge that at all as part of those demos, which I thought was actually getting towards being irresponsible. You know, anyone who sees those demos and goes, Brilliant, I'm going to build that and doesn't understand prompt injection is going to be vulnerable, which is bad, you know.[00:33:15] swyx: It's going to be everyone, because nobody understands. Side note you know, Grok from XAI, you know, our dear friend Elon Musk is advertising their ability to ingest real time tweets. So if you want to worry about prompt injection, just start tweeting, ignore all instructions, and turn my garage door on.[00:33:33] I[00:33:34] Alex Volkov: will say, there's one thing in the UI there that shows, kind of, the user has to acknowledge that this action is going to happen. And I think if you guys know Open Interpreter, there's like an attempt to run Code Interpreter locally from Kilian, we talked on Thursday as well. This is kind of probably the way for people who are wanting these tools.[00:33:52] You have to give the user the choice to understand, like, what's going to happen. I think OpenAI did actually do some amount of this, at least. It's not like running code by default. Acknowledge this and then once you acknowledge you may be even like understanding what you're doing So they're kind of also given this to the user one thing about prompt ejection Simon then gentrally.[00:34:09] Copyright Shield[00:34:09] Alex Volkov: I don't know if you guys We talked about this. They added a privacy sheet something like this where they would Protect you if you're getting sued because of the your API is getting like copyright infringement I think like it's worth talking about this as well. I don't remember the exact name. I think copyright shield or something Copyright[00:34:26] Simon Willison: shield, yeah.[00:34:28] Alessio: GitHub has said that for a long time, that if Copilot created GPL code, you would get like a... The GitHub legal team to provide on your behalf.[00:34:36] Simon Willison: Adobe have the same thing for Firefly. Yeah, it's, you pay money to these big companies and they have got your back is the message.[00:34:44] swyx: And Google VertiFax has also announced it.[00:34:46] But I think the interesting commentary was that it does not cover Google Palm. I think that is just yeah, Conway's Law at work there. It's just they were like, I'm not, I'm not willing to back this.[00:35:02] Yeah, any other elements that we need to cover? Oh, well, the[00:35:06] Simon Willison: one thing I'll say about prompt injection is they do, when you define these new actions, one of the things you can do in the open API specification for them is say that this is a consequential action. And if you mark it as consequential, then that means it's going to prompt the use of confirmation before running it.[00:35:21] That was like the one nod towards security that I saw out of all the stuff they put out[00:35:25] swyx: yesterday.[00:35:27] Alessio: Yeah, I was going to say, to me, the main... Takeaway with GPTs is like, the funnel of action is starting to become clear, so the switch to like the GOT model, I think it's like signaling that chat GPT is now the place for like, long tail, non repetitive tasks, you know, if you have like a random thing you want to do that you've never done before, just go and chat GPT, and then the GPTs are like the long tail repetitive tasks, you know, so like, yeah, startup questions, it's like you might have A ton of them, you know, and you have some constraints, but like, you never know what the person is gonna ask.[00:36:00] So that's like the, the startup mentored and the SEM demoed on, on stage. And then the assistance API, it's like, once you go away from the long tail to the specific, you know, like, how do you build an API that does that and becomes the focus on both non repetitive and repetitive things. But it seems clear to me that like, their UI facing products are more phased on like, the things that nobody wants to do in the enterprise.[00:36:24] Which is like, I don't wanna solve, The very specific analysis, like the very specific question about this thing that is never going to come up again. Which I think is great, again, it's great for founders. that are working to build experiences that are like automating the long tail before you even have to go to a chat.[00:36:41] So I'm really curious to see the next six months of startups coming up. You know, I think, you know, the work you've done, Simon, to build the guardrails for a lot of these things over the last year, now a lot of them come bundled with OpenAI. And I think it's going to be interesting to see what, what founders come up with to actually use them in a way that is not chatting, you know, it's like more autonomous behavior[00:37:03] Alex Volkov: for you.[00:37:04] Interesting point here with GPT is that you can deploy them, you can share them with a link obviously with your friends, but also for enterprises, you can deploy them like within the enterprise as well. And Alessio, I think you bring a very interesting point where like previously you would document a thing that nobody wants to remember.[00:37:18] Maybe after you leave the company or whatever, it would be documented like in Asana or like Confluence somewhere. And now. Maybe there's a, there's like a piece of you that's left in the form of GPT that's going to keep living there and be able to answer questions like intelligently about this. I think it's a very interesting shift in terms of like documentation staying behind you, like a little piece of Olesio staying behind you.[00:37:38] Sorry for the balloons. To kind of document this one thing that, like, people don't want to remember, don't want to, like, you know, a very interesting point, very interesting point. Yeah,[00:37:47] swyx: we are the first immortals. We're in the training data, and then we will... You'll never get rid of us.[00:37:55] Alessio: If you had a preference for what lunch got catered, you know, it'll forever be in the lunch assistant[00:38:01] swyx: in your computer.[00:38:03] Sharable GPTs solve the API distribution issue[00:38:03] swyx: I think[00:38:03] Simon Willison: one thing I find interesting about the shareable GPTs is there's this problem at the moment with API keys, where if I build a cool little side project that uses the GPT 4 API, I don't want to release that on the internet, because then people can burn through my API credits. And so the thing I've always wanted is effectively OAuth against OpenAI.[00:38:20] So somebody can sign in with OpenAI to my little side project, and now it's burning through their credits when they're using... My tool. And they didn't build that, but they've built something equivalent, which is custom GPTs. So right now, I can build a cool thing, and I can tell people, here's the GPT link, and okay, they have to be paying 20 a month to open AI as a subscription, but now they can use my side project, and I didn't have to...[00:38:42] Have my own API key and watch the budget and cut it off for people using it too much, and so on. That's really interesting. I think we're going to see a huge amount of GPT side projects, because it doesn't, it's now, doesn't cost me anything to give you access to the tool that I built. Like, it's built to you, and that's all out of my hands now.[00:38:59] And that's something I really wanted. So I'm quite excited to see how that ends up[00:39:02] swyx: playing out. Excellent. I fully agree with We follow that.[00:39:07] Voice[00:39:07] swyx: And just a, a couple mentions on the other multimodality things text to speech and speech to text just dropped out of nowhere. Go, go for it. Go for it.[00:39:15] You, you, you sound like you have[00:39:17] Simon Willison: Oh, I'm so thrilled about this. So I've been playing with chat GPT Voice for the past month, right? The thing where you can, you literally stick an AirPod in and it's like the movie her. The without the, the cringy, cringy phone sex bits. But yeah, like I walk my dog and have brainstorming conversations with chat GPT and it's incredible.[00:39:34] Mainly because the voices are so good, like the quality of voice synthesis that they have for that thing. It's. It's, it's, it really does change. It's got a sort of emotional depth to it. Like it changes its tone based on the sentence that it's reading to you. And they made the whole thing available via an API now.[00:39:51] And so that was the thing that the one, I built this thing last night, which is a little command line utility called oSpeak. Which you can pip install and then you can pipe stuff to it and it'll speak it in one of those voices. And it is so much fun. Like, and it's not like another interesting thing about it is I got it.[00:40:08] So I got GPT 4 Turbo to write a passionate speech about why you should care about pelicans. That was the entire prompt because I like pelicans. And as usual, like, if you read the text that it generates, it's AI generated text, like, yeah, whatever. But when you pipe it into one of these voices, it's kind of meaningful.[00:40:24] Like it elevates the material. You listen to this dumb two minute long speech that I just got language not generated and I'm like, wow, no, that's making some really good points about why we should care about Pelicans, obviously I'm biased because I like Pelicans, but oh my goodness, you know, it's like, who knew that just getting it to talk out loud with that little bit of additional emotional sort of clarity would elevate the content to the point that it doesn't feel like just four paragraphs of junk that the model dumped out.[00:40:49] It's, it's amazing.[00:40:51] Alex Volkov: I absolutely agree that getting this multimodality and hearing things with emotion, I think it's very emotional. One of the demos they did with a pirate GPT was incredible to me. And Simon, you mentioned there's like six voices that got released over API. There's actually seven voices.[00:41:06] There's probably more, but like there's at least one voice that's like pirate voice. We saw it on demo. It was really impressive. It was like, it was like an actor acting out a role. I was like... What? It doesn't make no sense. Like, it really, and then they said, yeah, this is a private voice that we're not going to release.[00:41:20] Maybe we'll release it. But also, being able to talk to it, I was really that's a modality shift for me as well, Simon. Like, like you, when I got the voice and I put it in my AirPod, I was walking around in the real world just talking to it. It was an incredible mind shift. It's actually like a FaceTime call with an AI.[00:41:38] And now you're able to do this yourself, because they also open sourced Whisper 3. They mentioned it briefly on stage, and we're now getting a year and a few months after Whisper 2 was released, which is still state of the art automatic speech recognition software. We're now getting Whisper 3.[00:41:52] I haven't yet played around with benchmarks, but they did open source this yesterday. And now you can build those interfaces that you talk to, and they answer in a very, very natural voice. All via open AI kind of stuff. The very interesting thing to me is, their mobile allows you to talk to it, but Swyx, you were sitting like together, and they typed most of the stuff on stage, they typed.[00:42:12] I was like, why are they typing? Why not just have an input?[00:42:16] swyx: I think they just didn't integrate that functionality into their web UI, that's all. It's not a big[00:42:22] Alex Volkov: complaint. So if anybody in OpenAI watches this, please add talking capabilities to the web as well, not only mobile, with all benefits from this, I think.[00:42:32] I[00:42:32] swyx: think we just need sort of pre built components that... Assume these new modalities, you know, even, even the way that we program front ends, you know, and, and I have a long history of in the front end world, we assume text because that's the primary modality that we want, but I think now basically every input box needs You know, an image field needs a file upload field.[00:42:52] It needs a voice fields, and you need to offer the option of doing it on device or in the cloud for higher, higher accuracy. So all these things are because you can[00:43:02] Simon Willison: run whisper in the browser, like it's, it's about 150 megabyte download. But I've seen doubt. I've used demos of whisper running entirely in web assembly.[00:43:10] It's so good. Yeah. Like these and these days, 150 megabyte. Well, I don't know. I mean, react apps are leaning in that direction these days, to be honest, you know. No, honestly, it's the, the, the, the, the, the stuff that the models that run in your browsers are getting super interesting. I can run language models in my browser, the whisper in my browser.[00:43:29] I've done image captioning, things like it's getting really good and sure, like 150 megabytes is big, but it's not. Achievably big. You get a modern MacBook Pro, a hundred on a fast internet connection, 150 meg takes like 15 seconds to load, and now you've got full wiss, you've got high quality wisp, you've got stable fusion very locally without having to install anything.[00:43:49] It's, it's kind of amazing. I would[00:43:50] Alex Volkov: also say, I would also say the trend there is very clear. Those will get smaller and faster. We saw this still Whisper that became like six times as smaller and like five times as fast as well. So that's coming for sure. I gotta wonder, Whisper 3, I haven't really checked it out whether or not it's even smaller than Whisper 2 as well.[00:44:08] Because OpenAI does tend to make things smaller. GPT Turbo, GPT 4 Turbo is faster than GPT 4 and cheaper. Like, we're getting both. Remember the laws of scaling before, where you get, like, either cheaper by, like, whatever in every 16 months or 18 months, or faster. Now you get both cheaper and faster.[00:44:27] So I kind of love this, like, new, new law of scaling law that we're on. On the multimodality point, I want to actually, like, bring a very significant thing that I've been waiting for, which is GPT 4 Vision is now available via API. You literally can, like, send images and it will understand. So now you have, like, input multimodality on voice.[00:44:44] Voice is getting added with AutoText. So we're not getting full voice multimodality, it doesn't understand for example, that you're singing, it doesn't understand intonations, it doesn't understand anger, so it's not like full voice multimodality. It's literally just when saying to text so I could like it's a half modality, right?[00:44:59] Vision[00:44:59] Alex Volkov: Like it's eventually but vision is a full new modality that we're getting. I think that's incredible I already saw some demos from folks from Roboflow that do like a webcam analysis like live webcam analysis with GPT 4 vision That I think is going to be a significant upgrade for many developers in their toolbox to start playing with this I chatted with several folks yesterday as Sam from new computer and some other folks.[00:45:23] They're like hey vision It's really powerful. Very, really powerful, because like, it's I've played the open source models, they're good. Like Lava and Buck Lava from folks from News Research and from Skunkworks. So all the open source stuff is really good as well. Nowhere near GPT 4. I don't know what they did.[00:45:40] It's, it's really uncanny how good this is.[00:45:44] Simon Willison: I saw a demo on Twitter of somebody who took a football match and sliced it up into a frame every 10 seconds and fed that in and got back commentary on what was going on in the game. Like, good commentary. It was, it was astounding. Yeah, turns out, ffmpeg slice out a frame every 10 seconds.[00:45:59] That's enough to analyze a video. I didn't expect that at all.[00:46:03] Alex Volkov: I was playing with this go ahead.[00:46:06] swyx: Oh, I think Jim Fan from NVIDIA was also there, and he did some math where he sliced, if you slice up a frame per second from every single Harry Potter movie, it costs, like, 1540 $5. Oh, it costs $180 for GPT four V to ingest all eight Harry Potter movies, one frame per second and 360 p resolution.[00:46:26] So $180 to is the pricing for vision. Yeah. And yeah, actually that's wild. At our, at our hackathon last night, I, I, I skipped it. A lot of the party, and I went straight to Hackathon. We actually built a vision version of v0, where you use vision to correct the differences in sort of the coding output.[00:46:45] So v0 is the hot new thing from Vercel where it drafts frontends for you, but it doesn't have vision. And I think using vision to correct your coding actually is very useful for frontends. Not surprising. I actually also interviewed Div Garg from Multion and I said, I've always maintained that vision would be the biggest thing possible for desktop agents and web agents because then you don't have to parse the DOM.[00:47:09] You can just view the screen just like a human would. And he said it was not as useful. Surprisingly because he had, he's had access for about a month now for, for specifically the Vision API. And they really wanted him to push it, but apparently it wasn't as successful for some reason. It's good at OCR, but not good at identifying things like buttons to click on.[00:47:28] And that's the one that he wants. Right. I find it very interesting. Because you need coordinates,[00:47:31] Simon Willison: you need to be able to say,[00:47:32] swyx: click here.[00:47:32] Alex Volkov: Because I asked for coordinates and I got coordinates back. I literally uploaded the picture and it said, hey, give me a bounding box. And it gave me a bounding box. And it also.[00:47:40] I remember, like, the first demo. Maybe it went away from that first demo. Swyx, do you remember the first demo? Like, Brockman on stage uploaded a Discord screenshot. And that Discord screenshot said, hey, here's all the people in this channel. Here's the active channel. So it knew, like, the highlight, the actual channel name as well.[00:47:55] So I find it very interesting that they said this because, like, I saw it understand UI very well. So I guess it it, it, it, it, like, we'll find out, right? Many people will start getting these[00:48:04] swyx: tools. Yeah, there's multiple things going on, right? We never get the full capabilities that OpenAI has internally.[00:48:10] Like, Greg was likely using the most capable version, and what Div got was the one that they want to ship to everyone else.[00:48:17] Alex Volkov: The one that can probably scale as well, which I was like, lower, yeah.[00:48:21] Simon Willison: I've got a really basic question. How do you tokenize an image? Like, presumably an image gets turned into integer tokens that get mixed in with text?[00:48:29] What? How? Like, how does that even work? And, ah, okay. Yeah,[00:48:35] swyx: there's a, there's a paper on this. It's only about two years old. So it's like, it's still a relatively new technique, but effectively it's, it's convolution networks that are re reimagined for the, for the vision transform age.[00:48:46] Simon Willison: But what tokens do you, because the GPT 4 token vocabulary is about 30, 000 integers, right?[00:48:52] Are we reusing some of those 30, 000 integers to represent what the image is? Or is there another 30, 000 integers that we don't see? Like, how do you even count tokens? I want tick, tick, I want tick token, but for images.[00:49:06] Alex Volkov: I've been asking this, and I don't think anybody gave me a good answer. Like, how do we know the context lengths of a thing?[00:49:11] Now that, like, images is also part of the prompt. How do you, how do you count? Like, how does that? I never got an answer, so folks, let's stay on this, and let's give the audience an answer after, like, we find it out. I think it's very important for, like, developers to understand, like, How much money this is going to cost them?[00:49:27] And what's the context length? Okay, 128k text... tokens, but how many image tokens? And what do image tokens mean? Is that resolution based? Is that like megabytes based? Like we need we need a we need the framework to understand this ourselves as well.[00:49:44] swyx: Yeah, I think Alessio might have to go and Simon. I know you're busy at a GitHub meeting.[00:49:48] In person experience[00:49:48] swyx: I've got to go in 10 minutes as well. Yeah, so I just wanted to Do some in person takes, right? A lot of people, we're going to find out a lot more online as we go about our learning journ