Podcasts about jts brown

Send us a textBernie Lubbers, Heaven Hill's bourbon ambassador, shares insider knowledge on the distillery's operations, history, and production scale while discussing their impressive portfolio of whiskeys.• Heaven Hill produces 1,500 barrels daily, operates around 70 rickhouses, and maintains 2.1 million barrels in inventory• The Shapira family has maintained ownership for nearly 90 years, with three generations actively running the business• Time is the most expensive ingredient in bourbon production, requiring foresight and patience for investments that take decades to mature• Heaven Hill has preserved historic bourbon brands like JTS Brown, JW Dant, and Rittenhouse Rye through strategic acquisitions• The company produces numerous bottled-in-bond expressions, maintaining a tradition that represents American whiskey's gold standard• Recent increased availability of some Heaven Hill products reflects production expansions made over a decade ago• The team discusses their experience selecting an Elijah Craig barrel that yielded only 72 bottles with unique honey notes• Heaven Hill's new Spring Hill distillery in Bardstown represents their first distilling operation in the town since the 1996 fire• Their portfolio includes innovating with traditional American whiskey styles like corn whiskey and wheat whiskeyIf you're interested in trying Heaven Hill products, consider picking up their Bottled-in-Bond expressions or visiting their visitor center in Bardstown for exclusives like the Five Brothers Small Batch.Step into the world of bourbon legacy and craftsmanship as Bernie Lubbers, Heaven Hill's renowned Bourbon Ambassador, takes us behind the scenes of one of America's most important distilleries. With remarkable candidness and passion, Bernie shares how Heaven Hill has grown to maintain 2.1 million barrels in inventory—representing a staggering 20% of the world's bourbon supply.What makes this conversation truly special is Bernie's insight into the family-owned operation that has survived when other major distilleries faltered. The Shapira family, now in its third generation of leadership, continues to oversee daily operations with the same dedication that began nearly 90 years ago. As Bernie aptly puts it, "Time is the most expensive ingredient in making whiskey and bourbon"—a philosophy that has guided Heaven Hill through decades of industry fluctuations.Bernie reveals fascinating details about Heaven Hill's dedication to bottled-in-bond products, explaining how these expressions became cornerstones of their portfolio while other distilleries abandoned the category. We explore their strategic acquisition of historic brands like JTS Brown, JW Dant, and Rittenhouse Rye, preserving pieces of bourbon heritage that might otherwise have disappeared. The conversation also dives into Heaven Hill's newest innovations, from their recently opened distillery in Bardstown to special releases that showcase their mastery of traditional American whiskey styles.For bourbon enthusiasts, collectors, and casual drinkers alike, this episode offers rare insights into the business decisions, production challenges, and long-term planning required to maintain quality and consistency in whiskey making. Whether you're familiar with Heaven Hill's extensive portfolio or just discovering these storied brands, Bernie's stories and expertise provide a deeper apprecia If You Have Gohsts Add for SOFLSupport the showhttps://www.scotchybourbonboys.com The Scotchy bourbon Boys are #3 in Feedspots Top 60 whiskey podcasts in the world https://podcast.feedspot.com/whiskey_podcasts/

NEW MUSIC ALERT! Lord Bael -the doomy, sludgy, and goshdarned delightful frontman of Shi- is back for the SIXTH time on Rhythm on the Rocks. Today we are talking all about Shi's brand new album, Pure Disgust. Frizz pours Rittenhouse Rye, while Bob and Bael pour JTS Brown (and an IRN BRU FOR THE FIRST TIME) and dish out all the disgusting details of your soon to be new favorite heavy record.

Send us a Text Message.Can great-tasting bourbon really be found on the bottom shelf? Join us as we challenge this notion by exploring bourbons priced at $17.99 and under, shedding light on hidden gems like JTS Brown and Old Crow. We reflect on the shifting perceptions of iconic brands such as Jim Beam and Jack Daniels, which now often share the lower end of the price spectrum. Our discussion also includes a heartfelt shoutout to our loyal listeners and fans, urging them to contribute their feedback on Apple Podcasts.We then dive into the unexpected quality of these budget-friendly bourbons. Despite their low price tags, brands like JTS Brown and Ancient Age exhibit impressive craftsmanship that holds its own against more expensive counterparts. We also tackle the fascinating market dynamics that make some of these bourbons scarce. Through this conversation, we reveal the significant role that marketing and brand recognition play in shaping the perceived value of a bourbon, proving that great whiskey doesn't always come with a hefty price tag.To round out our exploration, we broaden our focus to include bottom-shelf whiskeys, comparing labels such as Traveler, Buffalo Trace, Benchmark, and Ancient Age. We discuss personal preferences, pricing, and availability while highlighting the influence of master distillers like Harlan Wheatley. From the bold flavors of Benchmark Full Proof to the history of Old Crow, our discussion underscores the richness of affordable options. We wrap up with a nod to regional price variations and the noteworthy aging process in Kentucky, emphasizing that budget-friendly bourbons and whiskeys offer remarkable value and enjoyment.ad for Rosewood bourbon Add for SOFL Support the Show.https://www.scotchybourbonboys.com

A completely different version of Proof Positive this week. The guys have a regular "Joe" of bourbon of J. T. S. Brown which is a 80 proof Kentucky bourbon whiskey produced by the Heaven Hill Distillery company. The J.T.S. Brown label dates back to 1855. The distilling operation is in Louisville, Kentucky, and aging and bottling operations are in Bardstown, Kentucky.  This whiskey was named after James Thompson Smith Brown who was a Master Distiller at the Old Oscar Pepper Distillery which would later become known as Stitzel-Weller distillery and produce some of the worlds finest bourbon whiskeys including Pappy Van Winkle's Family Reserve and Weller 12 Year old bourbons. Cheers!

Today the Boys bring you the fourth installment of Beginner Buys.  Matt brings the JTS Brown Bottled in Bond Bourbon, a bottom-shelf treasure, and Drew brings Cascahuin Blanco Tequila, a nicely priced bottle admired by all tequilaphiles. Although these bottles were not paired specifically for the QuickSips™, they prove to match beautifully, providing heightened flavors and long, long finishes. So, stop by your favorite liquor outlet, find these two bottles, gather your friends, sip the liquid,  savor the fellowship, and Make It A Happy Friday™.

Craig Cackowski is an actor, improvisor and teacher based in Los Angeles. He was involved with the iO and iO West (RIP) theaters from 1992-2018, and was the three-time winner of the Del Close Award as Teacher of the Year at iO West. He has played numerous improv festivals around the US with his long-running three-man troupe Dasariski (with Bob Dassie and Rich Talarico) and his duo Orange Tuxedo (with his wife Carla!). While in Chicago, he appeared in and co-wrote 5 revues for The Second City, and helped create such improv forms as JTS Brown and Close Quarters. As an actor, he has been seen in recurring roles on such shows as Community, Veep, Drunk History, and Mindy Kaling's Sex Lives Of College Girls. He may be heard frequently on such podcasts as The Thrilling Adventure Hour, Kevin Pollak's Alchemy This and his own podcast Craig's List, in which he makes Carla watch his 100 favorite movies. ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ CRAIG CACKOWSKI ⌲ IMDb: https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1854497/ ⌲ IG: https://www.instagram.com/ccackowski/?hl=en ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ The Moving Spotlight Podcast ⌲ iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-moving-spotlight/id1597207264 ⌲ Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/7cjqYAWSFXz2hgCHiAjy27 ⌲ Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/themovingspotlight ⌲ ALL: https://linktr.ee/themovingspotlight ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬ #DrunkHistory #Veep #CommunityTVShow #Spont #CraigCackowski Cackowski #DASARISKI #Improv #Harold #JTSBrown #CloseQuarters #Emmys #TVTime #iTunes #Actor #ActorsLife #Believe #Success #Inspiration #Netflix #Hulu #Amazon #HBO #AppleTV #Showtime #Acting #Artist #Theatre #Film #YourBestBadActing #Content #CorbinCoyle #JohnRuby #RealFIREacting #TMS_Pod --- Support this podcast: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/the-moving-spotlight/support

This Friday it's Matt's turn to steal the show, and he certainly does with this lineup.  All Heaven Hill.  All Bottled in Bond.  All Drew has to do is sit back and drink! Listen and sip along as the boys sample JTS Brown Straight Bourbon Bottled In Bond, Heaven Hill 7yr Bourbon Bottled In Bond, and the Henry McKenna 10yr Single Barrel Bourbon Bottled In Bond.  (Have a flight then say that 3 times fast!) These bottles are on the shelves regularly, so pick up each one, pull up a chair, fill your glass, lend an ear, and make it a Happy Friday!  

Ken, Iggy, and Michael sample Heaven Hill Quality House, which is a budget-friendly 80-proof offering. Will this bottom-shelf offering from one of the best distilleries on the planet make the cut? #whiskey #bourbon #Heaven Hill Quality House #80 proof #budget-friendly #citrus #JTS Brown #label design #aroma #mixing Heaven Hill Quality House 80 Proof Bourbon Review Rating: 3.5/5 Heaven Hill Quality House 80 Proof Bourbon is a true budget-friendly sipper that won't break the bank, making it a solid choice for those who are just starting their whiskey journey or looking for a casual, everyday pour. During our tasting session, we found some aspects that were worth noting: Appearance: The bourbon boasts a lighter color, which is to be expected given its 80-proof strength. Its label design is eye-catching, featuring subtle sparkles that give it a unique touch on the shelf. Aroma: Heaven Hill Quality House offers an enticing aroma characterized by notes of lemon and citrus. The scent is vibrant and sets the stage for what's to come in the flavor profile. Taste: The flavor profile is where this bourbon truly shines for its price point. While it may not compete with more premium offerings, it does a commendable job. The prominent citrus notes deliver a zesty and refreshing experience. It's not overly complex, but it's straightforward and satisfying. Comparisons: When compared to other budget-friendly bourbons, such as JTS Brown, Heaven Hill Quality House 80 Proof falls just a little short. The 100-proof JTS Brown is favored for its richer flavor and higher alcohol content, which adds depth to the experience. Value for Money: For those on a tight budget, this bourbon is a reasonable choice. At around $12 for a 750ml bottle, it offers good quality without breaking the bank. It's an excellent option for mixing into cocktails or enjoying in casual settings. In conclusion, Heaven Hill Quality House 80 Proof Bourbon is a decent entry-level bourbon for those who appreciate simplicity and affordability. While it might not be the first choice for connoisseurs or enthusiasts seeking complexity, it serves its purpose well as a reliable, everyday sipper. If you come across it, it's worth keeping a bottle on your shelf for those relaxed evenings or for mixing up your favorite whiskey cocktails. So, go ahead, raise your glass, and say, "Cheers, everybody!"

Recognizing the importance that bottled-in-bond had on the bourbon industry is the reason for this podcast. We're going to talk a little about why the act was important, but mostly, we're just going to enjoy some good whiskey knowing that government regulation helped to set a standard we enjoy today. We're going to share some Wilderness Trail, Old Bardstown, 1792, JTS Brown, and E.H. Taylor BIB versions for this episode. Learn more about Bottled In Bond online at - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bottled_in_bond Catch us on the web at - http://thewhiskyfriends.com/ Music by Adam Whitehead - https://www.facebook.com/adamwhiteheadmusic Email us at - thewhiskeyfriends@gmail.com

This BONUS episode was recorded just after we recorded the Jack Daniels Bonded episode. Amy was adamant that the JTS Brown was better, so we had to do a quick impromptu side by side. 

Mark (The Ownch) - Oban 2022 Distilars Edition Matt (The Whiskey Guy) - Golden Scheaf Chef Tom - J.T.S. Brown Unopened Treasures - Belle Meade Sour Mash --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/librarypubcast/message

We all wish Mike fair winds and following seas as he and Viv head out on their new adventure in Texas! But, we all know the show must go on... so we welcome our new Co-Host Brian Hyatt (spelled differently). Brian is an old friend, long time listener,  previous guest and a great addition to The Bourbon Road team. We hope you'll welcome him with open arms as you listen to this episode and introduction of my good friend and new Co-Host! https://thebourbonroad.com Be sure to check out our private Facebook group, "The Bourbon Roadies" for a great group of bourbon loving people. You will be welcomed with open arms!

In this episode, The Group reviews JTS Brown and discusses private barrel laws that were in jeopardy earlier this year and dry counties. https://whiskycast.com/private-barrel-kentucky-bourbons-in-legal-jeopardy/To Drink Is To Live! Follow Us on Facebook: @TheBourbonLibrary IG: @thebourbonlibrarypod Twitter: @LibraryBourbon Reach out: thebourbonlibrarypod@gmail.com --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/the-bourbon-library/support

We must be crazy but we decided to tackle three different bourbons in one episode. We start off with Quality House, then move along to JW Dant and finish the episode with JTS Brown. We are typically fans of most Heaven Hill products, but these wallet-friendly pours might push the limits of what we like. Which is your favorite, and who do you think we will pick as our winner? Learn more about Heaven Hill Distillery online at - https://heavenhilldistillery.com/#2 Catch us on the web at - http://thewhiskyfriends.com/ Music by Adam Whitehead - https://www.facebook.com/adamwhiteheadmusic Email us at - thewhiskeyfriends@gmail.com

On this episode Tim helps us with the taste notes of the staple JTS BROWN Bourbon. Available in Kentucky only liquor store shelves, this expression is bottled in bond and has nice and interesting notes. To know more about JTS BROWN and all other HEAVEN HILL expressions and all of their expressions visit https://heavenhilldistillery.com/. Be sure to follow Tim on all social media FB, IG and TIKTOK @singlebarrelsnob. Looking for a new glass to try your whiskey? Check out WHISDOM GLASS (https://whiskeywhisdom.com?via=hoodsomelier) Use code TTIBP to get 10% off your first purchase. #whiskey #bourbon #bonded #rye #Kentucky #heavenhill --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/hoodsom/support

In this episode we taste some bottled in bonds picks -- the Evan Williams and the JTS Brown. Can a cheap BiB whiskey make it onto our coveted top 10 list? Better give a listen to find out.  

Sean chats with Craig about his experiences training and performing at IO, IO West and Second City. He also talks about his role in developing Close Quarters and JTS Brown.

Sean chats with TJ about how he got started in improv at IO, JTS Brown, Second City Mainstage and being one half of TJ & Dave.

Matt and Scott discuss two of the better bottom shelf bourbons in the Everyday Shelf Bourbon Series, Heaven Hill 6yr (green label) and JTS Brown BiB. It was a split decision on which each prefered.

My Bourbon Collection is just me....... in my lounge....... drinking my whiskey Find me on YouTube (5) RotoLounge - YouTube Find me on Twitter https://twitter.com/RotoLounge To help Support this Channel while having access to additional content like behind the scenes and access to Fantasy Football info

Steve, Nate, and Dustin sit down to enjoy some selections of a more modest price point tonight. The JTS Brown is from Heaven Hill and the Edge Sumatra is from Rocky Patel. We are exploring how you may not always have to spend a lot to have a pairing that may work out well. Ask questions on the feed during the show or after if you want to be part of the conversation! Pour one more...light up another...we'll figure it out together. Please Drink Responsibly Thanks to our sponsors: All of you that have been supporting us! Join our patrons at patreon.com/bourbonandbspodcast to help support the continuing growth of the show and the community. Tinder Box at Easton for the weekly featured cigar and check them out for their current weekly sampler at eastontinderbox@gmail.com Altadis USA for the weekly second cigar and the continued support! BS Cigar Company for the continued support! Check them out at bscigarcompany@gmail.com for ordering the BS Gold and BS Silver

Bob and Brad are joined by Perry Ritter of This is My Bourbon Podcast to break down director Cameron Crowe's 2000 hit Almost Famous. Important questions are asked, including "how did Billy Crudup not achieve superstardom" and "what the hell is Jimmy Fallon doing here?" Meanwhile, they try TW Samuels Bottled-in-Bond, the last of Heaven Hill's bottom-shelf 100-proof whiskeys and certainly the cheapest. How will this one hold up against products like JTS Brown and JW Dant? Film & Whiskey Podcast. New episodes every Monday. Film & Whiskey Instagram Film & Whiskey Facebook Film & Whiskey Twitter Call-in Line: (216) 800-5923 Email us! Join our Discord channel! Theme music: "New Shoes" by Blue Wednesday Transition music: Ophiucus by NK Music --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/filmwhiskey/message Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/filmwhiskey/support

In this episode the guys continue their bye-week schedule of short bottle reviews. W.H. Stephens breaks down JTS Brown and tells you why it's the best price point bourbon for the party; D. Joyce hits you with his rediscovery of Makers Mark and A. Culbert gives you his take on Peerless Bourbon, a lucky unicorn find. Sit back and listen. Stay Black and keep it Brown. --- Support this podcast: https://anchor.fm/dablackandbrownpodcast/support

Many of us know the basics of distillation, but only a few know the true science. Today, we’re joined by Tripp Stimson of Barrell Bourbon and we ask all the hard questions on distillation that we’ve always wanted to know. This is really for the geeks at heart because it goes into pH levels, yeast strains, malting processes, and so much more. Listen close to the expert because it’s definitely one show where you will learn something new about the distillation process. Show Partners: You can now buy Barrell Craft Spirits products online and have them shipped right to your door. Visit BarrellBourbon.com and click Buy Now. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Show Notes: This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about bourbon in the movies. What are your goals for the year? Tell us about your background. Let's talk about grains. Does it matter where the grain comes from? What happens after getting the grain? Does the size of the mash tub matter? What is the percentage of mash to water? What's the best way to mix the mash? How long is the process? How do you know the mash is ready? What grain do you add in first? Talk about malted grain. What happens next? What is the consistency of the product when going from the mash tub to the fermentation tank? Let's talk about yeast. What about a mash rest? What is the chemical breakdown during fermentation? Why do some people do closed vs. open fermentation? What determines the number of days for fermentation? Do different grains change the process? What is sour mash? Let's talk about the pH of the water. Is the flavor more consistent in a sour mash process vs. sweet mash? Do you use a bourbon backset in a rye mash? What happens after fermentation? Talk about the shape of stills. After the still where does it go? What happens in the doubler? What are heads, hearts and tails? What are the health risks of the process? What's the difference between the column still and pot still? When do you get the waste out? How do you control the proof coming off the still? What is the argument for a low entry proof? Does it have to be the exact proof listed on the label? How do you get a final proof when using multiple barrels? How do you clean the equipment? Does an older still produce a different flavor? What are you looking for when picking rum? Support this Podcast on Patreon 0:00 Let's give folks a reintroduction of like your background and where you got in to the industry and how are you qualified to teach us about this? 0:09 Let's go ahead like where's your degree here? I was the only one you could get to sit down. 0:14 He's only one answer call. 0:28 This was Episode 263 of bourbon pursuit podcast featuring news reviews and interviews with people making the bourbon whiskey industry happen. Before we start the podcast, here's your weekly bourbon news update. Last week, we revealed the news first on social media that a demolition permit has been submitted to take down the 130 year old national distillers Rick house in Louisville, Kentucky. The building has been deemed unsafe by structural engineers. There's a partial collapse of the roof and the interior support being 1:00 are deteriorating with significant amount of moldy buildup. It's sad to see this historic building be torn down after all the years of neglect since it was never being used. Now on a bourbon release news, the 2020 edition of Yellowstone limited edition Kentucky straight bourbon will be on shelves in September, featuring a seven year old straight bourbon finished in French Armagnac barrels. Approximately 5000 cases of this bourbon are being produced at limestone branch distillery, bottled at 101 proof, it will have a suggested retail price of $99 and 99 cents. In bourbon pursuit news. We're continuing to select more and more barrels for our private bourbon club. This week, we selected two more barrels at four roses and oh ESB and an OB sq. Both 10 and a half years old. This is going to make 22 barrels selected so far this year, and we're not done yet. So if you want to see how you can support this podcast, and get access to some great private barrels, along with 2:00 First access to pursuit series. Join us patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit. This is one podcast. We were super excited to record. Way back on episode 88. We did a back to basics about bourbon. And now we're going deep dive into the distillation process. It's all the hard questions on distillation that we've wanted to know. And we've got Tripp Simpson from barrel bourbon here to go all scientific on us. Listen close to the expert because it's definitely one of those shows, where you're going to learn something new about the distillation process, bourbon pursuits UP FOR A People's Choice Award for podcasts and we need your help. Go to podcast awards, calm and register to vote as a listener. I know registering sucks, but please vote for us and the People's Choice and the arts category. It would be really awesome to win this thing. Now do you want to get some awesome bourbon rye and rums shipped straight to your door? barrel bourbon now has online ordering you can get 3:00 award winning products right now. Go to barrel bourbon calm and click the Buy Now button. With that, enjoy today's episode. Here's Fred Minnick with above the char. 3:12 I'm Fred Minnick. And this is above the char, as I hope this old forester 1897 in my hands, I turned it to the back and I read this quote, The truth is, I prefer whiskey, Laura Howard. And that's from the alienness A TNT show. There's like an engraving on here. Not really entirely sure what the connection between old for certain alienist is. I'm sure it's in a press release or something that was emailed to me that I just didn't read. But 3:48 I will say the bottle got me to thinking about all of the incredible moments bourbon has had in pop culture. Whether you want to talk about Blanton's being 4:00 Everywhere have Pappy Van Winkle being written into the intern's or justified basically pouring more bourbon than most people do in their lifetime on a single episode, or you want to go back to, you know, the 1960s where it was seemingly on every single show with a man smoking a cigarette in a back corner. But I'll tell you my favorite. My favorite connection to Hollywood is the hustler JT s Brown is basically a drink of choice and they talk about bourbon and its qualities that you know you didn't really see a lot of most people when bourbon is in the conversation. It's just part of the conversation. Well here here's a drink tastes so good. You like it. Now let's keep talking about taxes or killing uncle john or whatever. Whereas in like the hustler, they actually did talk about how it was made. They talked about 5:00 You know, eight year old bourbon being the very best, and so forth and so on. And so we get a chance and you want to go down like movie lane and you want to watch an old flick while you're quarantined and bored up to your eyeballs. Go check out the movie, the hustler. And while you're doing it, make sure you're pouring yourself a little JTS Brown. While I may not be the same, it's pretty cool to drink the same thing as Paul Newman. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, if you have an idea for above the char hit me up on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, or whatever. Just look for my name Fred minich. Until next week, cheers 5:43 Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon, Kinney and Ryan back in our usual recording station with a friend of the show. It's been on here a few times already, but this time, we're taking this kind of the next level because this was a a listener requested show of saying like, Listen like 6:00 We understand we go on the tours, we get the 51% stuff all the time. But like, Where's that we need to answer some hard questions. And, you know, we always go back. And I think it was like February 2018. We did like a back to basics sort of month, way back then. And we kind of got an overview of some of this, but this time, I'm really excited because we're going to be going deep dive into the distillation process. Yeah, it's, uh, you know, we get on these tours all the time. And sometimes I know what they're talking about. And a lot of times I'm just nodding my head. Yes. Like acting like I know what they're talking about. So yeah, I'm super excited love having Tripp on his front of the show, and he's getting to test out his new, you know, equipment he paid for. So we appreciate it. We always appreciate Barrow and being able to help support the podcast, have all this nice new equipment too. So it's, yeah, absolutely. So no, super excited about it. Because, yeah, we're like we've always said, we don't know shit about distilling. So we're glad to have someone here who does so 7:00 There are people that went to school for this so that they do know what they're talking about from time to time. Absolutely. So let's go to introduce our guest today. So today on the show you've heard him before in previous podcast, but we have Tripp stimpson. He is the master distiller and Director of Operations at barrel bourbon. So Tripp welcome back. Thanks for having me guys. Good to be here. Yeah, absolutely. So Joe keeping you busy. Always, never dull moment. So what's you know, we were talking earlier, talking about your goals with some Joe goals for the year. Are you guys coming off that big banner year of 2020, all those metals, large blogging, I guess, lofty, lofty goals. We've got looking at doing the usual probably for bourbon batches. We've got a right three batch. It'll be coming out here soon. We actually brought that with us today. 7:45 We got some infinite releases. We've got dovetail. We've got. We're doing some fun things with finishes. I don't want to shine the light too much on that. Well, we can talk about that another time. But there's some really, really interesting things coming out coming down the line this year. So 8:00 Stay tuned. salutely So before we kind of dive into a lot of this stuff, I think people need to know about, you know, your background and sort of like, you know, we've I think we've talked about it before, but like, let's give folks a reintroduction of like your background and where you got in to the industry and how are you qualified to teach us about this? 8:18 Like, like, Where's your degree here? I was the only one you could get to sit down. 8:23 He's the only one answer call. 8:27 Okay, um, so, my backgrounds in biochemistry, molecular biology, degrees from college, I went straight from college and started work for brown Forman as a research and development scientist. I spent 8:43 10 years 10 years with brown Forman in various roles, analytical chemistry, benchtop chemistry, microbiology, doing a lot of distillery sciences and easting and distillery efficiencies. Left brown foreman, I started a consulting company 9:00 There was really focused on the craft side of the business. At the time, there were people just getting into this glorified distillery business with these great dreams of if you build it, they will come kind of ideas. And I wanted to really bring a level of expertise to these people that show that it wasn't all really a bowl of cherries, you know, this is really what you're going to be doing for whole areas. 9:30 And lay it out there real time and say, you know, this is your investment. This is how long you're going to wait for your return. And this is how hard you're going to work. And really put that into context before people would take the leap. So I did that for a handful of years. And met Joe through that process. We began working together six been six years, six years ago this year. And we've been working together ever since we're very similar view on 10:00 On the approach to everything, and it just works. And he sold you on the dream of distillery. 10:07 We're working diligently. 10:10 We're getting there. still dreaming it up. 10:14 So you know, you're you have this idea of also doing distillery but you know, we really kind of want to go and really kind of really pick your brain here. Because as we start getting into what does the distilling process look like? Like I said, let's kind of let's kind of go a little bit, you know, start from finish. And, you know, I think this is really gonna be focused on a lot of the bourbon nerds and the bourbon geeks out there that really want to dive in, they want to know exactly like, you know, what do you have to do to make sure that there's no contamination, no bacteria, like our pH levels of thing. Or, like, you know, when you're in the fermentation, like, everybody never buys tanks, so special fermentation tanks, that's Ryan's thing. Everybody's got their special fermentation tanks. You know, like, you know, how much gas can really come off there. And that's 11:00 Because you see some that have, you know, clothes, you have some that are open, you have some that are outdoor, you have some that have huge vacuums on them. So I think we'll, we'll tackle some of those things there. But you know, I guess let's start at the very beginning of the distillation process. And I mean, I would imagine it just kind of starts with grains, right? It does. And it's always funny to me, where, you know, we always jump in, and we talk about the distillation process. And to me, I always think of that is starting a movie halfway through, you know, you've left out so much of the important stuff prior to this distillation process that really affects your distillation. So if we go all the way back to, 11:37 to the grains and deciding what your grain bill is going to be, and how we treat the grains, where does it come from? How do you mill your grains? particle size actually plays a big part in this when you're milling your grains, if you go down to say a powder versus like a grist like the beer guys would use the you will get different fermentations out of both of those. Okay, so let's let's hit that point. 12:00 Right there. So, assuming you're using different kinds of machines to get the different, like I said the different variable of like, Is it a powder versus like a, I guess like a grist or whatever it is a grist or grit, grist, grist. Okay, is this is this me being like city slicker? Like I don't really know what Grif means. I don't either. 12:19 But I heard him say grist 12:22 like grist mill. Oh, you've heard grist mill before right? Like I like I like for grits. No, I'm kidding was like say I was like, I like grids and grits are like basically ground up corn. So it was like, Is it is it like that kind of that kind of size right there and smaller than that? Well, I mean, it's, it looks like sand. It could be like thick sand in your hand versus say almost a powder. Okay, and what you what you've done, there's a handful of different Mills, people use roller Mills, hammer Mills. 12:53 You can use the cage Mills, and they're all going to do a little bit different type of grind on your grind. 13:00 Is it kind of like so like when you do coffee like say like an espresso is like a real fine, you know, write it up coffee like real dense. Whereas like a pour over something is like more kind of bigger grained, our guests are sure type of texture. Well, and let's go back to what the whole goal of what we're trying to do here, we're trying to take this grain this will say a kernel of grain, and we're trying to make available as much of that starch as we can before we move into matching. So ideally, you would think the finer we can grind it, the more available the starches. So you take that and you go across all these different ways of milling the different types of Mills, and how they get to that grind. So some mills and throughput are going to create heat, well, you don't really want heat, because then you start to really denature the starches that you can't use in your fermentation to create alcohol. So there's different Mills will require different throughput and there are 14:00 certain ways to use each meal so that you get the right particle size without generating the heat. Well, I'm gonna go even before the grinding, like to the actual grain and the growing of the grain, okay, and like the soil and the regions they come from can witness a distilling podcast. Well, you said you want to go all the way back to the grain. So let's do it. Let's do so because you are distilling like, you know, and removing a lot of things from the original I guess grain itself doesn't matter like which region it comes from, or which type of soil or type of grain it you know, from corn to corn, not saying like corn or wheat or corn butter from different varieties of within that species. Yeah, absolutely. And even go step further and every year, you know, annually. If we have a lot of rain, you're going to get a different grain than you got the year before. And, you know, one test that many distillers will do is they'll look for aflatoxin. So if you have a really rainy season, you're going to get some molds out there and aflatoxin being a bye 15:00 product for mold can show up in the corn that's delivered to your distillery. So aflatoxin actually will fluoresce under a UV light. So if you take a thing of grain and you put a UV light over it, you see specks of 15:15 fluoresce grain aflatoxin, and then if there's any aflatoxin you don't know that you won't accept. Yeah. Do you know that run? You know what aflatoxin was? I didn't but it does sound like a mold or fungus. 15:28 I know. I know the Yeah, I know what fluorescence and like infrared and you know, and normal bacteria is kind of starting to yet inoculate themselves. It's like It's like a fish poster. 15:41 Alright, so at this point we are now we're now milling the the grains and stuff like that. We talked about the size of it, I guess. Let's let's kind of go on to the next portion of this. Okay, so we've got our we've got our grain the size we want. Now we're going to move into mashing, you're going to use no warm water to further break down that grind to make the 16:00 available. So in this process, you're going to either have a malted grain that's going to provide the enzyme, or you're going to add an exogenous enzyme that you've bought from a company who's isolated and concentrated this enzyme that you're going to add same time. Either way you do it, the goal is the same. You want to take these large, long chain carbohydrates and cut them down into small three carbon sugars, anything over a three carbon sugar the East can't do anything with. So these enzymes are going to cleave these long chain molecules into these smaller chain molecules during this process to prepare for, you know, the actual fermentation process. So these these big mash tubs that we usually see when we go through, I know we've seen them at heaven. Hell, we've seen that a few different places. I mean, is there is there a size that these things usually end up being like as a recommended sizes? I mean, can it be as small as like a child swimming pool versus something that's a huge tank. I mean, the the 17:00 The science will remain the same, no matter what size you use, the enzymes are going to work at the same temperatures. But the mash tub is typically size with the size of your process. So you're not going to have a big monster still on a small match stub. And inversely, you're not going to have a huge match to a real small steel. Now with these because they I guess, multiplied like, well, this the East isn't added yet, but right now yeah, we're not we're not there yet. Okay, don't jump back. Don't jump ahead. Because I got another question here. Which is, you know, you said about adding warm water. Now I know when I go to these things, and you touch them like they're pretty they're hot to the hand. Yeah. Like what's the I mean, what's the when you say warm water? It's not like bath warm, right? I mean, you're adding you're adding some I would say some scalding hot water to it or something like that, that or it's heating up like what right what's going on in there. So I say warm water because at this point, you you've likely recycled warm water off of something else. So you've you've taken cold water, probably off of 18:00 Through a condenser or something, taking that heat, you recycle that heat into another process. So in this let's just say it's into the cooker. So you're taking the warm water off something else into the cooker with these grains while adding steam, either your direct injection or your jacketed or maybe you have tubes in your in your cooker either way, you're adding heat somehow, and you're really on your way to almost a boil. And then you're going to add you're going to add these grains at different times for different reasons. And these different enzymes are actually going to work at different temperatures. So you've got to be careful because if you if your enzymes are in and you go above a certain temperature then those enzymes are gonna be nature they're not gonna work. So you're not going to get your conversion. 18:44 So if you have like a like a 500 gallon say whatever magic cooker Is there like a certain percentage of you know, the match to water that you are like, what is that percentage? I guess you you, you know, you run you can run a thin beer. What will 19:00 We call a thin beer or thick beer or anything in between the two. You don't want to go too thick because then your yeast isn't going to work. It's going to be too thick, there's too much pressure that yeast isn't going to isn't going to be active. If you go the other way, and you go real thin, the yeast is going to perform well. But now you've used all this energy up to that point to have a fermentation. But you could have actually had some more grain in there. So you're getting more bang for your buck, let's say. So the trick is to find out how thick Can I go maximize the alcohol from the fermentation without going so thick that it starts to suppress the yeast. Gotcha. So I guess another question with the just the mash tubs in general and the cookers, you know, I think the ones that I've seen usually they meet inside of it looks like a KitchenAid mixer. Yeah, right. They've been having they're sitting there spinning everything around and trying to keep that going like is that is that normal industry standard that that you have that or is there sometimes there's, you know, somebody with a broom and a broom handle they're trying to just like mix it around on a canoe pad. 20:00 Can you pass that's how we mix up our stuff. 20:04 You know, I've I've seen it done about every which way you can imagine, the canoe paddle is definitely a thing it does happen. On your larger scale distilleries, though, you're gonna have a nice agitator. The tubes on the inside or the coils are going to be for your steam, either coils or jacket. You can go either way. But yes, I mean, that's pretty much an industry standard. So how long does a typical process like this usually go when you are when you're trying to mash and you're trying to basically add water to the grain to start basically making them change their molecules. I don't really know if that's the right word I'm looking here for but try and change their properties a little bit. 20:41 It Again, it's going to depend on how much you're trying to do one time. So let's say let's let's operate off say 1000 gallon working capacity. You know, you're gonna you're gonna go and you're going to add your corn, your hot water, you're going to go to a boil, you're going to cook for, you know, 30 minutes 21:00 45 minutes, whatever, wherever you land in your profile, then you're gonna start to cool down, put some rye in there, and you're gonna cool a little more. And then that's where your enzymes start to work. You've got your alpha and your beta amylase, enzymes 21:13 that work at the 155 and the 135 degree ranges. So that's really where you're going to start to get a whole bunch of your conversion is right there where the enzymes are working. And then you can hold it there for another, you know, 20 minutes, 30 minutes. Again, this is going to be a little bit of trial and error, depending on your facility. But you're probably looking at two and a half, three and a half hours, probably for a full mashing, cooking session before you go into your fermenter. And how do you know it's like, ready? Well, you I mean, that's the trial and error part. I mean, you you start with a basic profile. And at the end, you see if there are things left on the table. You take measurements of a different of a bunch of different stuff through your fermentation and we can talk about this later, that actually will measure 22:00 You will actually give you ideas of your starch conversion, your, your the fermentation, how much sugar is left over which there shouldn't be any, right? So if there is you've had problems with yeast or some other variable, you measure all these things and you come up with the most efficient profile. What if you didn't have any instruments like back in the day? And you just said, yeah, exactly dip your finger in it and taste it like as Can you tell from that? I mean is there you can, if you were to take just a basic mash early on, right before you start your fermentation, you tasted it will be sweet. It will have sugar sweet properties to it. At the end of your fermentation when you taste it, it's going to be sour. So once you taste the difference in the two then you know on the front side what you're looking for. So another question that I had about looking at the grains that are going into you know, you had mentioned at first like you add in things a little bit later, like you add in the ride later and it's like so is there is it because corn 23:00 has different property. And that's why you added in first or do you add in my first like, what's the like which grains you choose first because of just the chemical nature of compound of it, the corn traditionally is is the hardest to get to based on its physical structure, the kernel itself, breaking all of that down and actually getting to the available storage is the most difficult in corn. So why you boil the crap out of the corn first, then everything else is at cooler temperatures. So you start you work your way to the top and then back down. 23:32 Right You don't want to eat really don't want to cook right too much. And then the malted barley, the barley is is traditionally just for the enzyme at the low percentage. Now as you increase that percentage, you can actually you can get some good flavoring from it. But malted barley traditionally is for the enzymes. What about any other like multi grains that you put in there like does that affects the time that you come in? Because I know if you melt something beforehand, it's probably gonna affect what you're doing. doing the math 24:00 process. Absolutely. And you can you can malt just about anything you want to. And you're going to get some enzymatic capability out of that multigrain. The enzymes are still going to work in the same temperature range. So even if you decide you want a malt corn, you can't go up and boil that corn. And just because it's multicore come back down, and the enzyme gonna work, you still denature the enzyme once you go above that temperature. So Alright, so I think we've kind of got this part now ready to go to have some yeast? All right, well, I think at this point, well, I mean, it's it usually leaves the cooker right? And you have some sort of vacuum or tubing or something that gets it to a fermentation tank. Correct. That's great. And so kind of talking about, I mean, because you've been in this process before, like what does it look like to build a system that is either like vacuum sucking, whatever it is the pumping moving all this stuff from yet not probably vacuum it's probably good to have a Dyson hooked up. 25:01 Got a water pump, very powerful. Yeah, but kind of talk about some of those, those things that maybe people don't see. So, you know, let's start with the most efficient way on a large scale, you're gonna have some nice stainless steel pipe, you're gonna have a really nice pump. And when it's time to go from the cooker to the fermenter, you're going to push a button on your switchboard and it's going to open a valve your pumps gonna kick on, and you're going to empty the cooker into the from how many gallons per minute we're talking my language is. 25:29 Obviously it depends, you know, there's a, 25:33 there's a piece of your process that this fits into, you know, you've you've cooked for so much time. Now it's gonna take you if you've got a pump that runs 25 gallons a minute, you've got 100 gallon tank, it's gonna go a lot quicker than if you have a 10,000 gallon tank and a 25 gallon a minute bomb, sure. So you size everything so that it takes the right amount of time to move the mash from the cooker to the fermenter and that will change whether you're running 100 gallons or 26:00 thousand gallons. 26:02 So again, that's engineering but you basically work it into your, your process. And then on the other side on the craft side, it can be, it can be anytime it can be pulled out and you know, drain into a bucket, take the bucket, dump it into the fermenter it can be hooked a hose to a smaller pump and run a hose across the floor to a fermenter. Any way that you can with some sort of sanitary good sanitary practice, get the cooked mash from the cooker over to the fermenter. I mean, whatever makes sense. That's I mean, you can do it 100 different ways. So from anybody that's never visited still, you know what these look like? Why, why couldn't you have a cooker and a fermenter do the same exact thing. You can, you can so if you wanted to do one fermentation a week, you could have a cooker, or even even distillation. Let's do the whole thing. You could actually have a pot still that you could cook your grains in 27:00 ferment in and then also distill from. The problem with that is that you've now occupied one space to do all three things. The idea around having typically one cooker and three to four fermenters is that you can set it up so you're doing something every day. No, you're not waiting on it to finish all three. Exactly. Yep. Exactly. I gotcha. I gotcha. So the other kind of question about this is like, when I know that we've had the opportunity to go to distillery and you know, you can put your hands on the mash and everything like that, but give folks that are listening kind of understanding of like, when something is actually going from the cooker, to the fermentation tank, like, you know, is it like, Is it just like water at this point? Or is it basically like water with a few crumbles like, kind of talk about the consistency of what this product is at this point. It's, again, if you're running the thicker, if you're trying to run a thicker beer, it's going to be just a little bit thinner than oatmeal. And if you're running a really thin beard, 28:00 It's it's gonna be cloudy water. And then it'll be it'll look like really muddy water, I guess consistency wise, and you're usually trying to like hit the middle ground with both these spectrums, right here is that kind of what most people are trying to hit? Yeah, it's trying to for your facility trying to maximize the yeast performance as well as the grain throughput, so that you're not sacrificing alcohol so you're not leaving alcohol on a table. Alright, you either want to be a Miller light or a stout. You want to be like 28:33 somewhere in the middle there. Yeah, sorry. So now we got to the point that we've got we've got a product going into the fermentation tank, right? That's right. And we've seen it usually there's there's a pipe that somebody moves and it's draining into there. Sometimes it actually drains sometimes like from bottom up sometimes like it can be can can can be pumped in there. See I said it right pumped in there. Yeah. So So at this point when it starts filling up talking to the process. Well, let's talk about yeast for just a second and then and then 29:00 Well in waiting. 29:02 So there there is a few different ways you can go about using yeast in your fermentation process. The most frequently done most frequently used and easiest to use is going to be a dried yeast. So you you order a dried yeast and known quantities from a manufacturer. They tell you how much you used to use for whatever product you're making. They'll even give you a few little flavor notes that that yeast is going to create. You take that in the recommended quantities and while this fermenter is filling up, you take the yeast and you throw it in. Done. That's it. How many different varieties of yeast are there for say like bourbon production? Oh my goodness, any thousands or Yeah, it could be could be. I mean, it's, again, we're talking about natural species. So you can have one and it can mutate while we're sitting here having this conversation. Not really that quickly, but 29:58 pretty close throw right? 30:00 match. Yeah, it'll take right away. There are there are a lot out there. But oddly enough, there are fewer than you would expect available for folks like you and me who were if we were to buy from somebody, that's why you got some guys in Danville that specialize Exactly. Farm solutions. Yeah. So there's, there's another question, this one came from one of the Patreon communities because we knew going into this that it would be tough to ask a lot of hard questions. So we kind of reached out to them. And so Richard hundred asked, you know, during the mash rest, is there a temperature there that affects the final profile that actually goes into potentially the final product? Or is like basically do you wait for that? That master like come to almost like a like a lukewarm state before you start actually pushing it or pumping it into a fermenter? So it's a good question. Let's, let's assume for a minute that when we talk about him, I'm not exactly sure the context in which he's referring to a match. 31:00 But in my experience, I have done what we'll call a mash wrist in certain types of raw fermentations. And the idea behind that is during that rest period, it actually gives the enzymes time to continue to break down starches. And that's really what that that resin or starches or in rare case, proteins. 31:23 That's really what that rest is allowing time for. And I'm assuming that's what he was asking. And if not, I'm happy to come back and revisit what yeah, 31:33 it's close enough. Yeah. All right. So we're in the fermentation tanks you've added to the yeast at this point, we've got, you know, this is where the magic happens, right? You get the bubble start in the form, you got that crust layer building on top. Now, what is what is the chemical breakdown that's actually happening that we're watching at this point. Basically, what you're looking at is starch molecules being converted into alcohol and co2 on the very 32:00 base level that's that's what's going on. So the alcohol is created the co2 bubbles off. And that's what you see. That's why it looks like it's boiling even though it's not. And then I know that we've been to some distilleries and when you're watching the boil it sometimes there's like, it almost looks like rent almost like like there's blood in the water. Like is that just like fats and oils from corn? Yeah, it's oils from corn. Yeah. And it's like hypnotic, always like that. I'm like, oh, man, something 32:25 that's like, just take your breath away. I don't know and know what to like, if you put your head down. It's like, like, you almost lose your breath sometimes. Yeah, I wouldn't recommend doing that. Because that can be pretty dangerous, especially for mentors that are closed. That's what's wrong. Me. You will find open that door and you get a face full of co2. It can knock you out. Yeah. So kind of talk about the the idea of why somebody would do a closed fermentation versus an open fermentation. And why you see some that have, yeah, you see some that have almost like the submarine doors on them like submarine windows. And then you see some that just have huge vent hoods on top of them do so. 33:00 This is this is the age old argument that, you know will never be solved about why we do open top fermentation versus a closed top fermentation. And, you know, we can get into Cypress and stainless, you know sometime too as well. But when you look at an open top fermentation the idea that people some people have is that it's a sanitation issue. So a lot of people will use a close top fermenter for that reason. So I'll back up and say that if you condition your yeast properly, and this is not necessarily the box yeast but if you condition yeast properly, prior to adding it to your condition, like push ups or 33:42 sprints 33:44 Yes, basically basically it's a yeast training program. fermentation. 33:53 And as funny as that is, it's really what you're doing is you're you're putting the yeast in in the environment, similar to 34:00 What it's going to see in the fermentation. So yeah, it's basically like training for marathons what I like to say, CrossFit for you. Exactly, yeah. So how he said, You know, there's like thousands and thousands, and they're living things like how do you prevent from those thousands and thousands of variables from taking over that particular? Is it like, you have so much of that particular yeast that it's dominant and can outcompete other yeast strains, or how does one bad apple not get in there and start taking over. So up until you start your fermentation, everything is pretty much we'll say, sanitized, you know, you basically boil the grain, everything is clean up until it goes into the fermenter. So at that point, you have basically allowed the environment to interact with your clean mash. So that's when potential bacteria can send in potential molds, that stuff that's in the air that you don't see but that we all know is there. That's when it starts to interact with your mash. Now if you have a strong yeast strain, that is beneficial 35:00 properly, it's going to outcompete any of those naturally occurring micro organisms in the fermentation so that you don't have to worry about something else taking over. Also, as soon as that yeast starts working, if you can time that properly to where you add your yeast as your fermenters, filling up, that yeast is going to start to create co2 and create an anaerobic environment, which is an environment that's lacking oxygen, which means those bacteria and mold spores are not going to grow. Gotcha, that makes sense. Yeah. And so this is where the magic is happening. So this is also you know, when we when we go when you visit these things, and you see these, these fermentation tanks, we'll get into the I think we'll get into steel versus Cypress in a minute. But one question that I've always had is like, sometimes they're like, Oh, we do three or four days. Some people are like, oh, we're six, seven day. what's what's the determining factor there to say like, Oh, it's gonna take this many days or like, Oh, we let it go for 10 like, does that really matter at the end of the day? So yes or no 36:00 A lot of it again is going to be strain. A lot of it's going to be how thick a beer you run how much starch is actually in that how much is available on that fermentation for conversion. If you run a thinner beer, and so you don't temperature control your fermentation, and you go from say a 70 ish setpoint and it skyrockets into the 90s it that yeast is going to roll through every available amount of starch in that fermentation very quickly. So you're, you're gonna get 36:30 a large majority of your alcohol in that first 12 to 24 hours. And then depending on how well your your your enzymes work, you get your secondary fermentation and that's what the additional days are for. If you run a thicker beer, and there's physically more starch in there that's available to convert and you want to control your temperatures in your fermentations through chilled water, no more coils in the fermenter 37:00 Then you can actually take longer to convert all of those starches. And basically what that does is allow you to make up for say weekends or holidays or things like that you control the temperature was drags it out longer and there you run a thicker beer so there's more starch in there. So the process just just physically takes longer. It's not like a barbecue and low and slow isn't necessarily 37:26 not necessarily in this case. So like do different. So like rah rah whiskey versus a bourbon or, you know, American malt or whatever, do they you know, each grain have different fermentation days, I guess required for them. 37:41 Again, it goes back to starch content. Yeah, I mean, the the fermentation times are really going to be determined by you know, thickness or your beer, the type of yeast strain you're using and whether or not you want to control the temperatures are good fermentation. People always talk about like, rather like Oh, it's such a pain. Yes, because it gums up everything's like 38:00 So is it like a thicker beer? Or is it So traditionally rye is gonna have a whole lot of protein By comparison, it has a lot more protein than you're going to see in any of these other grains. And for that reason, you get that the foam I mean, people talk about gumming stuff up and foam and that sports protein. So if you if you eliminate that protein, then you can eliminate the problems with rapper mutations. So when you do fry, are you like, Alright, I get my a, my a list, yeast over there can do the most burpees push ups to take this on, because it's going to be a bit. 38:39 There are yeast strains that are going to perform better in awry than others, okay? But also you still got to take care of that protein. And that's really what's going on is that protein, they, if you if you've ever seen a rat fermentation go awry. See what I did there. 39:00 It will almost balloons out the top in a lot of cases. And what that does that proteins actually holding all that co2 in there. So now you're starting to suppress the the performance of the yeast. And if you do that, it's just going to slowly gradually slow your fermentation till it stops. And when you stopped prematurely, you've left all that converted starch on the type. So now instead of getting, 39:25 say, a seven or 8%, beer 9% beer, you're getting a, you know, one, two to 3% beer, because your fermentation didn't go all the way to completion. So go get that paddle. 39:36 Learn enough or do you have to scrap it? Well, rule of thumb is you never scrap it, you know, you got to figure out a way to make it work. You know, one of the things that that Joe always refers to is, you know, when we first met he asked me what do you do when it goes wrong? And just, I just roll off the cuff. It never goes wrong and 40:00 You know, he probably loved it. And he did. And he still tells that story. And at the time, I didn't really understand why I said what I said, but, but what what I'm saying when I say that is that you have to be ready for these things, you have to understand what's going on, so that when your raw fermentation goes awry, you have something some protocol in place to say, okay, you know, we're sitting here looking, the proteins are thicker, in this particular fermentation than usual, we need to make a corrective action, and just knowing what to do to combat each of those problems that comes along, then it you know, it's expected, you know, it's not when something if something goes wrong is when something goes wrong, right. And if you operate with that mindset, then you're just prepared. Yeah, absolutely. And so we're still in the fermentation process here. And I think we skip this step, because there's one thing that we'll always talk about, and that's the sweet versus sour mash, right. I mean, this is where this all happens in this stage to correct That's right. So kind of give Transcribed by https://otter.ai

In this Episode of The Bourbon Life Podcast, Matt and Mark spend some time with Bill Binder, Internet sensation and star of the soon to be released TV Show, Binders Stash. The guys talk with Bill about his upcoming show, Binders Stash, his past life as a pro golfer and bar creator, his amazing beard, and his love of budget Bourbons.  They also enjoy some pours of a few budget-friendly Bourbons with Bill, including Bill's favorite, JTS Brown, as well as Old Bardstown Estate Bottled and Wild Turkey 101.  This Episode of The Bourbon Life Podcast is sponsored by The Stave Restaurant in Millville, Kentucky. Make sure to follow them on Facebook and Instagram and visit them online at www.thestavekentucky.com.  We are also sponsored by Premium Bar Products, providers of premium glassware and bar tools direct to the consumer. Check them out online at www.premiumbarproducts.com. 

Bottled-in-Bond. It’s one of the revolutionary moments of American history, but has also become near and dear to many bourbon drinkers with good reason. We covered the in and outs of bottled-in-bond with Bernie Lubbers back on Episode 089 and it's part of our Bourbon 101 podcasts. Since we know why bottled-in-bond is important, it’s time to find out who Bourbon Pursuit is going to claim as the best bottled in bond bourbon in 2019! We blind sample our way through 12 heavy weight contenders and put them in the Bottled-in-Bond Showdown. Who is going to be crowned champion? Listen and find out. Show Partners: * Hotel Distil on historic Whiskey Row is set to open October 29th in Downtown Louisville. Book now to experience it for yourself at HotelDistil.com. * The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at uofl.me/pursuespirits. * At Barrell Craft Spirits, they spend weeks choosing barrels to create a new batch. Joe and Tripp meticulously sample every barrel to make sure the blend is absolutely perfect. Find out more at BarrellBourbon.com. * Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. * Distillery 291 is an award winning, small batch whiskey distillery located in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Learn more at Distillery291.com. Show Notes: Elijah Craig Launching Kentucky Straight Rye Whiskey: https://www.instagram.com/p/B3wt1feHdlZ/ Amazon Gin: https://www.beveragedaily.com/Article/2019/10/21/Amazon-launches-its-own-spirits-brand-Tovess This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about premium pricing. What is Bottled-in-Bond? Blind tasting of the following (in no particular order): Heaven Hill Bottled-in-Bond 7yr Henry McKenna Single Barrel Bottled-in-Bond George Dickel Bottled-in-Bond Old Bardstown Bottled-in-Bond Old Grand Dad Bottled-in-Bond 1792 Bottled-in-Bond Evan Williams Bottled-in-Bond Jim Beam Bottled-in-Bond JW Dant Bottled-in-Bond Early Times Bottled-in-Bond New Riff Bottled-in-Bond Wilderness Trail Bottled-in-Bond 0:00 I love bourbon, but I'm not ready to restart my career in be a distiller. I have a bachelor's degree and I want to continue to use those skills in the whiskey industry. So check this out. The University of Louisville now has an online distilled spirits business certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry like finance, marketing and operations. This is perfect for anyone looking for more professional development. And if you ever want to get your MBA their certificate credits transfer into Ul's new online MBA program. Learn more about this online program at U of l.me. Slash pursue spirits. How fast can you go through like 15 Bourbons? I'd be done. Now if you aren't asking me so many questions. 0:55 Welcome back. It's Episode 224 of bourbon pursuit. I'm wanting to host And here's your weekly bourbon news roundup. Last Thursday, heaven Hill announced Elijah Craig is launching their Kentucky straight rye whiskey. This is made from heaven hills only right Nashville which is 51% rye, 35% corn and 14% malted barley, the same Nashville that you're going to see for Rittenhouse as well as Pikeville with an SRP of only 2999 Elijah Craig Kentucky straight rye whiskey will first launch unlimited markets of North Carolina, South Carolina, Georgia and Oregon in January of 2020. Now, when you hear about a release like this, we typically hear about most people, especially in Kentucky, being kind of upset about its lack of market penetration. So we actually reached out to our contacts at heaven Hill to see what the response was. And this was a decision by the brands to focus on markets based on a variety of needs. This could be from building a brand on premise competitiveness and a particular market or too slow roll a product based on age inventory. For this release, there was no one single reason but you can read more about this post on Instagram with the link in our show notes. Jim Murray's whiskey Bible has announced that last week his top whiskey of 2020 was 1792 full per second was the 2018 William drew Weller and third was the 2018 Thomas HND, meaning that Sazerac swept all top three whiskeys of the world for Jim Murray's whiskey Bible. Now continue on the trend of Buffalo Trace, they are also releasing their next installment in the old charter oak series called Canadian oak. In late 2018, Buffalo Trace announced its old charter oak series, it's a collection exploring the different taste profiles of barrels obtained from trees grown in different countries, climates and soils. For this newest release, Buffalo Trace obtained a small number of barrels from Canada and filled them with mash number one. This is the same Nashville us for Buffalo Trace and Eagle rare Canadian oak trees differ from a American oak trees that they are harder and have tighter grain structure, which affects the bourbon as it ages. The old charter oaks Canadian oak was aged for 10 years and will be available in retail in late October. The suggested retail price will be 6999. While we're talking about new releases, let's not forget about angel's envy and their annual cask strength release. angel's envy cast drink begins West standard angel's envy bourbon, it's made with a Nashville of 72% corn, 18%, rye and 10% malted barley, aged first in new charred oak barrels, but finished in barrels at once held port wine. As these barrels are tasted throughout the year. A few are set aside to age longer MB bottled at cash drink for its special annual release. This year's release will clock in at 122.4 proof with seven different ages as port finished bourbon of 689 10 1314 and 15 years old, that are missing To create this final blend, the bottle will come in a packaged in a wooden Art Deco style box for a suggested retail price of around $200. And the last release we're going to talk about isn't actually bourbon. It's not actually even whiskey. It's a gin and it's called tow service. And it's only available in the United Kingdom, France and Germany. This is a big deal because the owner of this brand is none other than Amazon. Yes, Amazon is getting into the spirits business. And this is now available to order online@amazon.co.uk this is another one of those things that we may see as a small ripple but could potentially end up being a tidal wave years down the road. You can read more about this with the link to beverage daily com in our show notes. Bottled in bond. It's one of the revolutionary moments of American history but has also become near and dear to the hearts of many bourbon lovers and with good reason. We covered the ins and outs of bottle and bond with Bernie lovers back on episode 89, and it is also part of our bourbon one on one podcast on our website. But now, since we know why bottle and bond is important, let's move on to what bourbon pursuit is going to claim as the best bottled in bond bourbon in 2019. We take a total of 12 heavyweight contenders and put them in a blind and what we're calling the bottled in bond showdown who's going to pull ahead and become the champion this year? Well, just wait and find out. All right, let's get down to it. Here's Joe from barrel bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char. 5:36 Hi, Joe from barrell bourbon here, myself and our master distiller triple Stimson spend weeks choosing barrels to create a new batch. We meticulously sample every barrel make sure the blend is absolutely perfect. lift your spirits with barrell bourbon. 5:50 I'm Redman Aiken. This is above the char this week's idea comes from Patreon subscriber Brian Shabbat. He asks should bourbon enthusiasts stop complaining and embrace premium pricing for premium bourbon. MacAllan. 25 year old for $2,000 is acceptable. But 1500 for Pappy 20 is considered price gouging. Brian also wants to know what's the possible economic implications for premium pricing. Now this story really goes it's really goes back to the 1960s when bourbon is kind of changing its business model up until the 1960s. You saw bottled in bond bourbon and even straight bourbon is really kind of competing with scotch as a premium on the shelf even cognac so cognac would have been you know another brand he's would have been considered the creme de la creme and scotch and bourbon were kind of, you know, neck and neck scotch was also dubbed more blends they were so this was when scotch was predominantly a blended category. Now the 1960s scotch starts going toward a more premium ization and they focused on single malts, while bourbon decided to do things like lower their proof points from like 100 or 107, to 86 and 80. And they started becoming the everyday man's whiskey. And so they were basically setting the market up to take on the blue collar workers, the people who were fixing sinks and doing construction and in the military, everything that they were doing was really geared around people who had a budget. Well, scotch was focusing on the people on Wall Street and bankers and people who own businesses. They put a lot of effort into, you know, building this esteem. At the same time, they were also putting away whiskey. They were putting away a lot of whiskey, though at age up to you know, 50 years and today we see him coming on the market for a million or more at auction. Now today, bourbon is so popular that distilling have had to increase your prices to kind of deal with demand and it's often gets pushed back. And there's one brand that always comes out as unpopular in this conversation. And that's Pappy Van Winkle. Now, when we when Brian asked about 1500 dollars for Pappy 20 it always has to be pointed out that the distillers are not the one setting that price that is not the MSRP for Pappy Van Winkle. And so the argument can be made that the MSRP is for these premium Bourbons don't necessarily reflect what people are willing to pay. So the question is, should people increase their suggested retailers price? Yeah, I don't know. I think it's still pretty cool to have a glimmer of hope that maybe you can get a bottle of four roses limited edition for the MSRP of 100 or 150, or whatever it is versus 500 to 1500 that you'll find it in some retail stores, but it also gives bourbon a little bit of a black guy. As It's never good to increase prices 200 400 600% year after year after year, and that's essentially what's happening right now. So there is a way to increase prices, and I just don't know what the best way is. scotch on the other hand, doesn't seem to be short of those million dollar bottles anytime soon. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, if you have an idea for above the char become a Patreon subscriber and share with me your ideas you can check us out at bourbon pursuit on Patreon. Until next week, cheers 9:41 Welcome back to another episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon and today Yeah, yeah boy. We are the trio we're back here again with an awesome as can be a fun episode. But first, you know, I gotta say that shout out to hotel distil. This is where we're recording today. We're actually in the barrel room here and this is located on historical Whiskey row is going to be opening on November 1 here in downtown Louisville. It's going to be a place that has, you know, first we talked about it on the last podcast, it is used to be the home of JTS Brown. It's got an exciting history and it's now transformed into this beautiful beautiful space. So it's going to be designed to really ignite your passion for discovery and will be the anchor for levels revitalization and refinement of bourbon culture. You can book a your true authentic experience and stay at Hotel distil.com 10:31 So is it that is it is it is very nice. 10:34 Yeah, very sweet. Excited now I'm excited to kind of see what's going to happen if you're watching this on video they talked about so they haven't these barrels behind us and they've got taps on them they're gonna be having barrel aged tap cocktails like right here with inside of this room. So I'm kind of I'm kind of stuck. Yeah, they 10:48 will actually be aging in the barrel. They're going to be in like a sleeve or a bladder, because that's the only way you can technically do that legally. 10:58 Like Like a bottle of wine. So They'll 11:00 be they will be pre like Franzia. Yes, it's like the bag. 11:04 Yep, front front. 11:06 The back before 11:09 I've done it on a boat once or twice. Yeah. So if you've never played that game before, ask somebody that has a boat on the lake in front. Franzia. 11:17 Alright, so that's the bag. Let's go 11:19 All right, let's go. So what we're gonna do today is we're going to slap the bottle and bond This is going to be the bottled in bond showdown. So we are selecting what we can find as one of our favorites have 12 different bottle of bond every day and I think we got one that's outside of Kentucky we got one George decal, but the other ones these are all Kentucky. And you know, this was a combination of grabbing stuff in our basements heading to go into the liquor store and, and, and finding these and, you know, I think it's gonna be kind of fun to kind of go through this because, you know, Ryan, I'm the I'm going to test your knowledge real quick because you know, we've We've talked about bottle on the bottom on the show before we've had Bernie lovers on give folks an understanding of what the bottle and Bond Act and what it was really there for. Gosh, I 12:09 feel like that's a Fred question. I don't know. 12:12 I'm gonna put you on the spot here. Let's let's do flex some 12:14 civil so we'll get it we'll get him back. Okay. Well you know it has to be at least four years old right? 12:19 Huh? 12:20 It has to state the distilling season. Is that right? I don't know if it's 12:27 distilled in a singer to be distilled in a seagulls 12:29 Yeah. Okay. See I've already got it wrong keep going 100 proof obviously as being bonded warehouse now obviously. The what else am I missing? 12:41 So it has to be distilled at one distillery in one distilling? $1 one. Okay. And has to be 100 proof at least four years old. Gotcha. 12:50 Yep. So I hit them all. You 12:52 hit all the major points and then they need to disclose the the distillery and all that stuff where it's bottled. Yeah. And this is it. This is a Guys, I, I know we see this on the bottle and we look at it for like quality purposes. But I want people to realize how important the bottle and Bond Act of 1897 was it First of all, Grover Cleveland signed this into law. This was his last thing he signed in his in his first term. And he was the, you know, the bottle and Bond Act was really our very first consumer protection legislation as a country. So now we have all these protection measures to help us as consumers and it really begins with bottled in bond with the government trying to protect us from bad whiskey. And then, but medicinal circles and it's important to note that they've had a lot of backlash like the blenders and the rectifier. Canadian whiskey makers were very much against the bottle of Bond Act. So this was one of the first times that the Kentucky distillery community banded together for a single cause and that was to get this passed. Now they just Sue each other. 13:55 They still help each other here and there but they still reasonable This is a 14:00 true part of part of the game. Now the way I feel like I'm looking at the longest shot ski ever, like I feel like I'm about to do like my 21st birthday it is we've got we've got 12 different Bourbons that are lined up and these were, these were ones, you know, we've got one that is kind of the newest addition to this, which is the new seven year old bottle and bond. And you know, there was, it was funny because I was actually going trolling to the liquor store last night and I was I was actually flabbergasted. I was like, man, I forgot how many bottle of bond Bourbons there were out there. And then Natalie that is a great values to well, and that's what they usually are typically good values. But you know, some of the ones I selected, you know, I was going through and I was looking, you know, there were also you know, there's there's bottle of bonds that are coming from Oregon and other places. But I said let's focus on some of the stuff that's pretty regional that or should I say not regional, but pretty national can be found on a national level. at the same exact time. You know, there's also a lot of Bourbons out there that are hundred proof, but it doesn't actually say bottled in bond or bond. The word bond is not on the package. So I just overlooked it and said we'll go on that Yeah. And then you know probably there's there's probably two more that should be in here that just couldn't bring it to get our hands on it because this is Louisville and people go crazy because it's bourbon is the EH Taylor brands so the small batch and the single barrel are not a part of this big idea. I saw that bottle and I was going to bring it in but I was like, I'm not gonna share that those fuckers 15:25 I'm kidding go the value for giving me the other side of this is we didn't choose any of the highly allocated releases. You know, the old Fitzgerald spring and fall releases the Parkers 24 year bottom bond also we also didn't bring any media samples. So these are all things that we actually physically purchased and that's very important to note because most competitions are they get their whiskey from the supplier, so the distilleries will send it into the competition. So these are guaranteed all have came from a retailer. 15:58 Well, Justin full full disclosure this seven Hill bottle and bond did come from heaven Hill really this was the media sample they sent everything else though has been purchased by us in some way in some way shape shape or fashion it's a it all goes in the bourbon pursuit credit card 16:15 right that's right so so that's why we're not getting checked on this person. 16:21 Alright, so let's go ahead Well, we got we got 12 to go through so we'll dive in kind of start with the first kid I 16:27 remember we I said wanted to talk a little bit about the the 16:32 smell my glasses, so I'm just trying to make sure that there's the same because they're not number. First of all this tasting is is is flawed because we don't have the same glass for every one of them. So we will now have to like take into account some of them are neat pores are neat glasses. I would say we've got 95% majority Fiverr and the Glen Campbell and Karen but this is that this is close enough. 16:57 fault brought the nega Lazarus That's the only thing I can tribute it was the wrong glass. 17:02 But it's okay but so that's the it's the only thing and this is this is actually a pretty small flight for like a for like a blind tasting this is all blind we don't know what we know that these brands report but we don't know in what order and as we're tasting you know we're gonna find out what we gotta gotta eliminate all you gotta eliminate and everything but I think we should we should also give our notes to the audience as we're as we're thinking. 17:27 Absolutely. So we'll go with number one I you know, for me, I'm going to be excited to kind of see how this is going to go down because what, two years in a row, Fred's over there talking about Henry McKenna being the best there is in the world and yet now we're let's see, now we're going to now we're going to 17:43 that was in that was in a competition by the way, I was just one Judge of like, 40. Now I'm one of three. 17:51 We're narrowing it down. We're making the competition better though. 17:54 The first one, I'm definitely picking up some grainy notes. 18:00 These are gonna be Yeah, they're all gonna be young. 18:02 So when they're gonna, you know, there's there's definitely going to be some 18:06 that are. Most of 18:08 them I'd say are probably for younger, right, you know, we brought in. They can't be younger than for for older. Yeah, yeah. So the one thing that I think is we're going to find unique as we go through here is there's gonna be one that's going to be sort of an outlier. And that's going to be the 1792. Because the bottle and bond that the 1792 pick is actually a store selection, right? So it is a single barrel, it's a one off, it's not going to be some of the the normal 1792 UCO. Let's just 18:36 take that I know what do we want to do are we want to rank them one through three, or we want 18:40 to say best, I'd say you pick your top three. 18:43 Let's pick our top three. Okay, so by tasting number one, I'm eliminating it from my round, it's just too grainy. It's very alcohol forward. 18:52 If you were to if you were to try to pinpoint number one 18:54 and number two, number two, if it's not the decal one 18:59 I'll be sure Then you shouldn't be at San Francisco anymore. Yeah, 19:04 that's number two's nose. Yeah, 19:06 that's, that's deco all right? Yeah. But you know, and the thing is like, this was a the decal is a recent entrant to the market. And I think it's it's gone over fairly well with the community of people that are, you know, getting into it trying Tennessee bourbon and stuff like that. And so there is an opportunity to actually have George tickled, so be a part in here. 19:27 So what's our teen year in it? 19:28 So this is so this George decal doesn't have an age statement on it. They do have it they have a 13 year release. Okay. And this is the non age dated version though. Yeah. 19:40 actually enjoy it. 19:41 Yeah, I mean, one one thing I would say about decal Is it is it is often flawed and competition because it that particular note, that kind of like morality, the Flintstones a note really can stand out in a bad way for a taste Yeah, so if you're in if you're tasting a sea of things that are very Carmel forward and vanilla, and you get that note it can be very off putting or it can be very good and can help it stand out and yeah, so it's like it's one of those it's either love it or hate it in competition. 20:16 Yeah, that one I didn't get the vitamin D on the front end but it's really there on the finish 20:21 on I would recommend I would recommend Also make sure you rent when you get like some of that lingering, 20:26 lingering taste in your mouth and kind of rinse it out. Yeah, I could see that. I mean so frightening number one was read. 20:32 Just Yes. 20:33 I would say if I'm if I'm and this is the hardest part of a blind tasting is picking out what it is right. But I would say it's definitely one of the younger ones. I probably put it in a league of like JW dance or, you know, maybe, maybe the Evan Williams but I don't know. 20:52 Okay, kind of the month ago, it had like a cinnamon spice finish that I usually get an old old markdowns, maybe that could be way off. 21:00 I'll tell you to it it is like, if you're focusing on what it is instead of right what is best in the flight, then you're not then you're not focusing on the tasting. So I will will start I would recommend like trying to like figure out what they are later because that can actually be fun and I'm already 21:18 moving on to number three is notebooks like a notebook so you can pick one of them just said negative negative that's how I that's how I did it. 21:26 Now I just moved on to number three now I love the nose on number three I thought of this that's great care Marburg can move forward. Yeah, nice to the taste ended up being a little I don't want to say bitter but kind of thinned out and a little astringent towards the end. So I like you give the thumbs up in the nose. The taste is like in the middle and the finishes kind of 21:47 blow I actually think the the the palates got it like this kind of a cool lady. That's got like a KoolAid aftertaste. 21:55 Yeah, like fake sugar. Yeah, like, kinda it's process flight. Kinda we hack Kool Aid packs like when you take a Crystal Light pack and just 22:05 you just spoon Did you forgot to 22:07 put water in it? 22:08 Three put three is a maybe 22:12 it's a maybe 22:14 it's a maybe it's a maybe when we go down here and 22:17 there's a chance 22:18 there's it there is a chance that it could it could go somewhere. Yeah. So Fred kind of talk about, you know, when we got all these bottles of bonds up here. I know you've got a you've got a hard on from McKenna a little bit, but kind of 22:33 blind tasting candy. There was 22:36 help. That's what he told 22:37 me. It'd be like a $10,000 scotch. Wow, it's just one vote in that I'm bad at them. 22:43 You know, I guess Fred, you know, one one new entrant that we actually have up here that I think is might hopefully blow some socks off. And it's kind of a riff, new riff, right, 22:54 focus on what it is focus on the whiskey. No, 22:56 no, no, but I kinda want to talk about you know, new riff and You know how they got late You guys are just like we're trying to work here. He's like 23:08 now I'm gonna think it's a new roof now. 23:10 Well, I mean, I just kind of want to talk about you know, their bottom and bond, you know, coming into the market and actually having that be their first entrant. Right and I think wilderness trail did the same 23:18 exact number four was new rip and while he's talking about it just happened to be it now. 23:25 Now that I actually do like number four, I gotta days like new roof. 23:31 I like butterscotch kinda like no 23:33 it's like he planted 23:35 like a cinnamon note on the back of 23:37 their cinnamon but it's like a lot of 23:40 it it's got that fried pie crust that I love fried pie crust man you got you got some awesome tasty between you and Ryan I I gotta I gotta up my game on it that's for sure. You've got to eat a lot. That's why do eat 23:52 a lot. The thing is, is none of its fake. I know people want to say like it's it's hate but this is like I mean I've really trained and stuff And really tried to connect to everything I've ever tasted. And it all goes back to when I'm trying to get better from Iraq and I was using mindfulness techniques and tasting and I would use to one of my therapy things was I would break down what barbecue potato chips tasted like and felt like on my tongue and that would help keep me grounded and I just applied that to bourbon and so that's kind of been my my technique. 24:25 So start off with going down your local local grocery aisle finding different kinds of chips and pulling the real thing Yeah, and you mean you got to gain 10 pounds automatic 24:36 the risky take 24:37 grab like 10 varieties of fried apple pies, you know those? 24:40 Well, I'll grab 10 different varieties of like hot pockets and we'll start 24:43 right then you're born You 24:46 know, I'm not a hot soccer guy now back in college Pop Tarts and like crucibles Yeah. 24:50 You know, I used to be I did love toasters turtles because you get to design your own art on there. Yeah. 24:56 Oh man. But the thing is, is like with the Pop Tarts like I only go two flavors. It's brown sugar, cinnamon and then the wild berry like those are the only two that I would actually go for beyond that, like I'm not a strawberry jam person like, clones 25:09 never really did like number four by the way. Yeah, four is really good. Okay, there's a check for me. Where's the checkbox? Yeah, 25:15 going to five Alright, moving on to five here like that. 25:18 It's hard to analyze color in here because it's so dark. Yeah. But 25:24 yeah, I mean you got we got it. We got a variety variety really grainy. 25:29 You mean on the nose? It's getting a little too grainy for him. 25:32 It also but it does have like, it does have like that. 25:37 You go to the fairgrounds and they're serving the cotton candy you go to the cotton candy booth is 25:42 that cotton candy so I got some raw notes or something. I mean, when I just had a taste and I think you kind of get some of that that cotton candy and a little bit on the back of it. You get some grape Kool Aid. 25:53 Yeah, it does kind of kind of funky. A lot of raw notes on that. For me anyways. 25:58 So all that's pretty Though I'll ask you all When was the last time you all had some some of these other bottle of bonds that are just you know, regular kind of shelf stuff so like old Bardstown old grains. 26:11 Like this is old Bardstown. Yeah, you think? Yeah, I think this is old Bardstown. Number five. 26:16 Yeah, I now think it is. 26:18 Because it has that like a particular oak note in there that I get from their, from their stuff. 26:23 I mean, I've always early times for me like an always 26:27 early, early times. I mean it's, 26:30 I haven't spent a lot of time with early times. 26:34 But of what we have up here that I've been drinking the shit out of his new riff and I've been I've been drinking so much of their cash drink stuff, you know? That was so good. It is I it's 26:48 It is incredible. What they've been able to accomplish. Okay, so we go to the 26:53 glass, it's not 26:54 a Glencairn. Well, I think we we definitely made a mistake of not labeling these glasses either because now me and you are literally like three four little accounting like what's we're on number six already and we're trying to like go through these yeah 27:08 so I do like the nose on I do like this a lot 27:12 this is probably my favorite knows this far everything you want in America knows oh my god 27:17 that's good that's kind of full package right there yeah that's a full package that's a that's a check check plus from what what else 27:23 so let's when we say full package What are you what are you putting that in reference to what is your What is your baseline that in bourbon I'm talking about in life in life? What's your baseline for a full package? Can you 27:33 want me to just hit solid Are you referring to package 27:37 Gosh, last time I'm drinking with you all and again 27:40 often by now maybe I'm so glad we picked this over like lawsuits or something. They were like texting last night and I like put my phone down for like an hour and I come by or 30 texts and I'm like, we're not doing these. We're gonna do the bomb bomb. 27:53 It'll be much more files wave. 27:55 So anyway, my full package will be like what I kind of think of it is like it just hits the checkboxes Got the nose, it's got the flavors. And when I think of flavor, like it's nothing that's it's nothing that's crazy. It's nothing that is off the wall. It's a one off like it is it is hitting, you know, most of the high notes that you get on a bourbon flavor will you've got caramel, you've got oak, you've got pepper, you've got some of those things, and it still lingers just a little bit now all these being 100 proof. We're not going to see something that's going to sit there and just like the finishes, keep going and going and going, right? I mean, I think we will, maybe we will, but I would think with 100 proof and I'm not going to act like I've got a refined palette by any means. But I think that I typically only see that happening with barrel proof whiskey is something that like I could still sit back like 30 seconds later and it's still like those flavors are still coating my mouth my tongue 28:49 sometimes I get on that. If you have like, I've had a lot of good for roses, like the hundred proof. What is it? 28:58 Single barrel single barrel, sorry. VOB SV 29:01 Yeah, that like, you can tell the spices from the grains and not from alcohol and the finish just kind of lingers on there. And so that I really liked that one. The finish was a little flat for me, but it hit all the checkboxes on 29:15 Friday night solid six had some layers to it. I would say revisit that one. We like when we're done here, because that's definitely a contender. 29:23 Yeah. Hopefully we're not doing like confirmation bias on each other. And we're just like, Oh, yeah. Oh, no, 29:28 I disagree with you. I will totally tell you. Yeah, but that and I know that Ryan will be quick to say, Yeah, fuck you, you know. So but in his own way, 29:39 own heartwarming way that thumbs down. 29:41 You know, he'll be like, well, I don't really. I don't really agree with you on that. But I know where you're coming from, though. Yeah, Fred. I agree to disagree with you. And then Kenny will be like, well, I just don't get that. Yeah. 29:55 It doesn't have 29:56 to be that or I'll say it. Let's change this. Let's change the subject real quick. 29:59 What does that mean? The next one, what 30:00 does that look like? But seriously on to the next one? 30:03 I got my first Neagle, SB to number seven, I think we all got new glasses changing everything. You know if I'm 30:09 gonna if I'm going to go on a limb if we're gonna if anybody's gonna guess on one thing I'm going to say number seven is gonna be the old granddad bottle and bond. I just I think it's, it's okay. It's basic. It's either me that or it's Evan Williams. It's one of the other, but I feel like it's just, it's cool. It's like there but I don't think 30:26 like I don't think it's all green. I don't either know, this. I think this is 1792 that's what I was gonna say from the nose. It's got that you talking about Nana's guys that you're bananas. 30:36 You know, as there's one thing that Ryan brought up a second ago when you talk about four roses, you know there's a there's a few distilleries out there that that don't come out with a bottle and bond product for roses and wild turkey or or two of them that kind of come up to mind. 30:51 You want to know why? 30:52 Yeah, I'd love to know why the books 30:54 on the distilling season, actually and not bringing them in is very difficult. So like knob Creek, which is 100 proof that could have six different distilling seasons in the the actual audit of a bottle of bond it's actually very costly. Heaven Hill has it down because they've been doing it for so long. And they, you know, they don't really change a lot of those older methods. 31:16 Do they still audit for vault and bon 31:19 Oh, if they if the federal government wants to audit, they will audit and occasionally they will come in and out and they what they do they just look at paperwork, that's all they do. You know, it's not like they're going in there and 31:28 taking dramaturgy. Yeah, they're not doing anything like that. 31:31 But it's, it's it's pretty fascinating 31:34 to see. Really getting finished, kind of lingering. 31:38 So do you think do you think that creating a bottle and bond product is it just more paperwork nowadays at the end of the day, and maybe that's why wild turkey for roses and people like that, just don't worry about it. 31:50 It always comes down to position in the marketplace. And when you look at where bottle of wine Bond was 15 years ago, heaven Hill owned it. Nobody was getting near it. No one cared. Then Bernie lumber starts kind of striking striking the bar to me he changes he changes. That man changed the perception of the bartender community for bottle of bond. And then so other people started tacking on the new distiller started coming on. They're like we want to be bottled bond, we want to be old school. And then people like brown Forman said we need to get back into bottle the bond cc early times. You know, you see all kinds of efforts from a lot of places and people like four roses and wild turkey have always been about four roses and wild turkey. You know, so they don't want to necessarily get and kind of like a categorical lump with those particular brands. And maybe they will maybe they will and I don't know, but Wild Turkey has kind of been very anti 100 proof, you know, so the 100 it for them. It's comes out their one on one absolutely like their entire branding is around one on one. Yeah. And that's very specific. Absolutely. 33:05 Yeah, I think ball and bonds are like perfect for cocktails by the way to like 100. Like, you know, it's just it's a lot of them are young enough and like and there's enough proof there that they stand up to a lot of sweet ingredients 33:20 and like the nose on a it is. It's really nice. 33:23 And the other thing about the cocktail side is that yes, it's got enough proof that keeps it there but you know the bottle and bond this market of what we're looking at, we're looking at anything from a $15 bottle up to a $50 bottle I think 50 is the high when I was going through this so wilderness trail bottle and bond is the highest near it was 50 I believe it was between the Evan Williams bottle of bond and the Jim Beam bond and maybe the JW dan, as hitting some of the the lower lower price point therapy. Medic. Medic. Medic Ryan just Ryan just choked out over here. 33:57 Yeah, I'm trying to spit but it went too far down. No point of return. 34:03 date was very green forward to me. And it had like kind of like an undercurrent of like develop grain like an cornbread, which is a note I often get in some of the beam product. I've got a real nice like cornbread like a like a touch of like honey butter on it. 34:19 See, the thing is I actually kind of still enjoy this one. There is there's something about it where I didn't like it finished. The finish is still there for me. I don't know. I'm just gonna go the check on that one, Brian, 34:30 and I don't like it. So it didn't matter. 34:32 Well, no, I don't know. Just, there's only it's only a 33% vote over here. So you know, that's how it is. That's right. 34:40 All right. So number nine. Number nine. We were rolling through these awful quickly, aren't we? 34:45 When you got 12 to get there? 34:46 Yeah, we can have two and so on. And so I got another question I'll throw at you all because I remember this from I think was in Houston bourbon society or one of the other was you know, 34:57 when it comes to my tastings, and I'm trying to be analytic I hate when people fucking talk to me. So this is like, throw me on. Focus hit me. Can you shut up? Can we but it may be terrible, but it's true. Let's let him have a 35:10 hard I'll try the zone. Okay, all right, right on 35:13 I'm not gonna taste what you asked a question. Go ahead, 35:15 we gotta gotta keep the conversation going, right? We got to keep the listeners engaged here, right? 35:19 But you can ask Jessica I like close the door and I'm like, I'm writing. I'm doing this let me allow, you know, 35:25 we gotta we gotta make you break out of the mold here. So you're hanging out with us. You don't wear mascots anymore. Right? So we're making the breakout you 35:32 fucking hot out there too. I don't have to be on stage. So. 35:36 So. So there was I think it was a question that brought up by Wade. You know, we love Wade friend of the show. He's got a lot of bourbon knowledge out there. And and he said, you know, is it true or false that is every warehouse, a bonded warehouse. It comes down to the law. 35:53 They not everything's stored in a warehouse, but in terms of like, you know, they've been Pay they have to have it It cannot be in a non bonded the government has to know where it is. And it is it is very much on the watch list now is it a marked bonded warehouse? No, no I mean there there's there was a artists in Kentucky arts and distillery was aging in containers shipping containers for a long time and then they were aging outside for a long time and they would later be Jefferson's the growth growth product but the government knew what those were and they had to be that paperwork had to be submitted. 36:44 Okay, well see there's an LG 36:46 even have to have like a bonded Kenny and I've rented this like when when you buy do a transfer and bond from 36:52 one to another. You have 36:54 bonded transfer like so much now. This 36:56 isn't bond. This isn't anything that you have like Can I just go got, I got an f1 37:01 fit no one comes in and inspects it per se, but, but the paperwork has to be there. And if it's not, then you know, they get and when that audit comes, which the audits don't come, you know, they don't always come so like you could get away with, you know, doing that and, and I know people who, who distill, you know, illegally and then had a distillery and they added their old stuff into it. That was illegal. 37:25 But it happens. It does happen. So I'm going to go on a limb here, and I'm going to say number nine, it might be my least favorite of everything we've tried so far. 37:36 I really like the nose. But Gosh, the the finish on this, it just tastes like grass and, like, dirt. I don't know 37:46 it. Yeah, I'm just, I'm just not a fan of it. I'm ready to move on to 10 Yeah, I mean, it was just like, okay, can this one be over because I can't deal with it anymore. I don't know. We might burn a bridge there. But you know, it's just not there for me. 37:58 You got to stop worrying about the bridge. Yeah yeah they're engineers 38:04 I don't hate it as much as you guys but it's not it's not a contender for me there it's grainy Scott alcohol undertones to it got some sweetness but it's not it's not it's not an end of the world bourbon like it's not making me mad like you 38:23 I mean he's fuming yeah right here 38:24 I am off my rocker right now just going crazy. All right, number 10 yeah my guess moving on to number 10 we're we're rolling through these, I guess the thread for you Do you do these tastings a lot? Like how often or how fast can you go through like 15 Bourbons. From forest to still Bull Run distillery whiskeys are using some of the best water in the US. 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Like I don't. It depends on what I'm doing. Like if I'm doing it. I'm doing it in competition. It depends on the competition. I have to adhere to the rules. I'm doing it for myself. My own little fucking thing I do whatever it is whatever it is I do or I'm just trying to taste you know the big part is is like do I have someone there helping me because I don't always have someone helping me and it's hard to pour for yourself and I mean we do 200 products difficult yeah but I can you know I usually try to spend two minutes with the glass thing is I my whole thing is I want to give I want to give every glass its chance you know it's not you know someone put a lot of time and attention and effort to make it if I'm going to taste it in analytically I need to give that same kind of time and attention at least 41:38 if you do something different you you tastings multiple times if you give it a rating, right, 41:42 that's right. I will I will taste three times because right now I'm just coming off a cold memory. I texted you guys yesterday that I lost my palate. I was like I don't know if I can do this. I lost my palate. I woke up I went out that's good. Anyway, bars and found 41:55 it. I feel like we're on a level playing field and now 41:58 we're down Last night, I wouldn't read it is late. I went out with drinking with my friend and I woke up this morning. I'm back, baby. It's like all that whiskey, like, cleared it. It was like so I'm just coming off the three festivals and I've been pretty worn down and now I'm back. And I mean today I could tell it was back but, but, you know, if you have an onion, if you whatever you have for breakfast, influences your palate, our surroundings influences. Right now we're on we're in a construction area that that little bit of, you know, dust smell that's out there can influence what you're picking up. The lights can have something the fact that someone's saying, you know, talking out there can influence I mean, there's so many influences so that when I'm actually tasting by myself, I like to be in a kind of like as much of a soundproof room as possible. No music, nobody bugging me. And it's just me and the glass. You can do a whiskey quickie can take three days to 42:57 give it a thumbs down 43:00 The way you all do, that's great. 43:01 And I guess I'll kind of give you I'll throw one back at you here, Fred, because, you know, we, we catch some heat every once in a while because people think that, oh, 60 seconds that's not long enough for whiskey review in and I kind of go on the other side of that and I'm like, well, soon as you taste something you kind of realize if you like it or not, 43:19 yeah, how many times does it take? Like, do you ever come back and you're like, 43:23 yeah, there's no way there's there's not actually as many how many times I would think that you went from something that you're just like, this is like a 65 to 95. Right? Not that big not understand we're not scoring it on a on a on a, on a point scale here. We're just saying like, thumbs up middle ago. Thumbs down, 43:40 right. So there have been 43:44 there been a few that went from like 80 to 85 or 88. Something like that. 43:53 Just a few points, then yeah, 43:54 I mean, it's not it's never really, you know, too much but It is there. And you know the big thing I think, you know, we have to what you have to what you have to determine as now that you all are kind of getting in the critic role is like what is your base? What is your base? And for me, my base has always been Evan Williams Black Label. That's an 86 point whiskey. You know and the thing is is like when someone rates that when someone says that is 60 points or 45 points or something, you're essentially saying it's undrinkable. Evan Williams Black Label is very drinkable. And you know, it can be enjoyed sip, it can be a cocktail, it's it's very, you know, versatile and like that is my base. So if I if I find myself in a situation where I am being very low, I like I was I was writing some stuff really, really low for a long period I went back to taste Evan Williams Black Label to make sure I was not crazy crazy. And I was like, I was like No, I'm right. Because these are not better than Evan Williams Black Label and it was like it was the one that did it for me it was like three years ago it was Eagle rare 17 year old and and then that also the Parkers heritage came out that was really, really bad. And I was like, God, I mean, I'm about to write these two things under an ad. And it was like, that's like really, really low for for those two products. And so I went back and taste that my base and it was like, Okay, yeah, I feel firm in that. So you have to like come to your base of like, what is your throne? What what barely makes your thumb up? And then what barely makes your thumbs down that that will always help you as as a reviewer, because you have to have something to lean on. Because if you know, you know you, you want to be consistent. That's the main thing. Absolutely. Thanks to you our basis and McKenna 46:02 realize like if it's better than here McKenna we like, yeah, 46:06 it's not, then it's true. That's true. I mean, that's that's kind of what started us down our path of launching pursuit series was like a well, if this is better than here, McKenna will do this. Yeah. And so we had a first barrel sample and that's for you. Well, that's, I mean, good for you. That's another story here or there. But I kind of want to talk about maybe 46:21 I should flip the podcasts on YouTube about why you started. 46:26 Well, we can we can we can definitely do a podcast about that one. 46:29 I did that last night. But then I was like, I don't want to 46:33 sell but it's all about a hotel to stall 46:34 and they won't be self promotion. When I'm asked questions. It's good. God, 46:38 by the way, before we go to this number 10. Yes. And I was I was I was I put check check. plus, plus, I was away. I was really, I enjoyed number 1010 46:49 was very woody for me. And see, that's me. I like 46:54 my pain. And I'm just I'm writing that and one of these ones that Fred doesn't like his hitter McKenna. Like 47:01 getting old so no so here so this is this is I'm not getting that So the one thing here about here McKenna is that it's a single barrel right? It's nothing that is it's batch it's not it's not celaire age it's not whatever it is. It is it is a single barrel offering it's nothing else like it you know we have the opportunity to catch up with Josh Hey for one time and talk about after it one San Francisco and say like, Listen, we all pick and cherry barrels like we all just sending two bottles that you knew that are three bottles that you knew that were just like Primo pristine, like going to knock the socks off. And he said he said Kenny This is exactly what happened. I make one phone call down to the warehouse. You know right now we've all been in the warehouse at heaven Hill. There's just pallets stacked up just boxes and things are moving everywhere. made a phone call. said hey, I need you to take three bottles out of a box. Here's the address the ship them to. That's it. There was there was no cherry picking. There is nothing like that. 47:59 Henry McKenna won Best bourbon the year before 48:02 Yes, I wouldn't believe that but like everyone you talked to it heaven Hill had the same exact story like it same exact like it's like they fed it to them like this. Well we need to do 48:12 I went back in the judges and you know what, when we unveiled the bottles, all the bottles for the same barrel number and, and you know so that makes it that makes that a little bit more believable is because they were they said it came from one case and you know as far as I know they case up their their barrels all the same, they don't intermingle. Yeah. And so that is that is the only thing I can think of, and also the year before they won with with Henry McKenna. And the second thing is what nobody ever wants to give any credit to is that there are more than 40 judges there from around the world, the greatest palettes in the world and I'm not just saying that because Guys, you're on it. But like I'm talking about people who run the hotels in Macau, people who run Wynn Las Vegas these are the these people are ultra respected for their palates. And they are human guess what they think is a honey barrel at heaven Hill. Could be a shit turd 49:25 over there. 49:26 Yeah. I mean, I gave two years in a row on my panel. I did not metal Pappy two years in a row. And you know, YP is you know Pappy is good. I mean, I didn't metal it. So what does that say? What does that say? I mean, you don't know how the You don't know how the judges are going to react. And you don't know what panel they're going to get on. If they're on my panel, man. Like with my panel, 49:56 we submitted pursuit series and Fred was like, I didn't even get that on my panel. Yeah. 50:01 So you never you never have any idea. 50:03 So like, you know, so that I you know, there's there'll be two 300 Bourbons that come in. There's other judges I can't you know, and they split them out. And yes, they do make me drink vodka. 50:14 Oh god. Oh, you poor thing. The fourth thing, by the way, thanks for you making the sacrifice for doing that as well. You 50:21 bet 11th amazing. 50:24 11 so 11 I did a check minus that was good, but it wasn't all the way there for 50:28 me. Yeah, I thought was average for me. 50:30 I love 11 a lot. I'm already on 12 50:34 Yeah, I got some like floral Really? Because I'm the exact opposite. I am I'm unique. I'm putting it 12 is as one of the bottom of the buckets for me. 50:44 I don't know what it I'll try to 50:46 try to it smells like floor sweeping. 50:49 Yeah, I'm not I'm just not a throw up packets. 50:51 Like Can you talk about 50:52 I usually talk about that when I talk about rye whiskey that I always get this note with some rye whiskeys of of if you recall. Back in grade school and somebody would like he had a classmate that puked on the floor and you had a janitor that wouldn't put the shavings on top of it that's always a note for somehow that I always get off stuff. 51:10 Yeah that's that's a real note that green hand whiskey had that note for me 51:17 I don't like I don't like it enough to put them on top three so 51:21 so i think i think it Now it's time we go ahead but you we need to replace like your top five retail taste your tops for sure anything you got a checkbox or a yes or whatever it is that you go through I use arrows 51:35 I use arrows and like I'll do like one arrow if I'm excited about two arrows if I love it three arrows if I'm like, about to go in the room with it, you know, 51:45 there you go. I tell you what, you know I went to I went back to number three and like three is just like coming back from from 12 the kitchen just got like super caramel knows. I put a maybe check box next to it doesn't mean anything. me here yet as we keep going, 52:02 I left threes nose. 52:06 Three is got too much. It's over early for me. threes over early would mean he was over early. So like, think of herbs like deal. Oregano. Sometimes those are candy, some medicinal herbal. It's a no for me threes out now. 52:26 Yeah, that's pretty good. I get that I'm still kind of there. I don't know for me I'm still kind of there on it. But I'm going to exit for me. Well, I think that 52:34 if we need to report who's reporting for us we do not need a report. 52:37 There is there is way too much out here that we do not need a report. So I'm moving I'm going to go between like 3468 and 10, maybe 11. And I'll choose my top three out of that. 52:53 fours and for me from the nose. 52:55 I want to say it's one dimensional, but maybe we've gone through this 15 times. There's there's something that a taste that just doesn't have it there for me. And for me I'm looking for I'm looking for caramel I'm looking for oak, I'm looking for some of those things and for just doesn't have it there for me. So I'm gonna I'm gonna go ahead and just kind of knock that one off my lips pulling for out of your list. I'm pulling for my 53:18 lot. It's in his top five Remember that? No, well, that's still good. Like, I mean, something 53:24 they might have even though they knew what it was. Anyway, I have to I had to know. 53:28 I think I think you know, you're right. I think it was too easy to take it out. I'll go back to it. Be only because I think it definitely deserves to be up there. It was too easy to pick it out. 53:44 And it is bourbon. It is bourbon. 53:47 And I guess you know, I'll look it to you guys and kind of kind of pose this question to you as a stock start depleting as you know, higher aged whiskies available in the market or not very anymore really the one thing that we see that's very common is we see 10 to 14 and 15 year old Tennessee product that is now available Do you think that's going to help change some consumers mind about their about actually having you know very aged product that's in the market versus something that's only like four to six years old? I mean, 54:21 what help Fred and then they've given barrels kind of proven that there's some really good stuff how many Yeah, I think I think barrel bourbon is an anomaly. They are such good blenders. Yeah. And they blend out a lot of that really unsavory note that I find in some medical 54:38 product but honestly, I just put a check plus next to deco like it was just it's too good. I don't know maybe. I know most of these pretty much all these except that one coming from Kentucky but there is there is something about it. That I think most people if you've never had that kind of product before, you gotta give it a try. Because if you haven't and you you just immediately Oh, Tennessee screw that I'm not going to drink it and you haven't tried it, then you're not really giving it a fair chance and a fair opportunity because there's there's a lot of good products that 55:09 that you can't get a question for both of you 55:11 know, here we go. 55:12 How do you put when you're tasting? Like I try to surround my mouth? I'm looking at my spit cup in comparison to Ryan's and it's like 55:22 oh, Kenny's been drinking the whole time empty. Yeah. Well, I mean, my mind is full. 55:30 I mean, I put a lot of my mouth to kind of surround How much do you put in your mouth to? 55:34 To find out before we talk no leaders around? 55:37 I'm doing I'm doing baby pores over here. Right? I'm just doing baby pores. It's just enough to like, maybe coat the tongue. I think I think what you're looking for is like an overall like, are you chewing it kind 55:49 of thing. So this is very important to me as a taster. Like I have to make sure that because if you just put a baby poor on there, you're getting a small snippet of what that was. He is Now you all been doing this long enough I don't have to worry about you you know discrediting at some because of a mouthful perspective but mouth field to me is it's so important that's why I like to make sure I can at least fill it down my jaw line 56:14 but there's also I think something that is you also miss by by also not consuming it and being able to say like okay if we spit it out are you missing something? Well 56:24 you know keep in mind I have to when I'm doing this I don't like 1500 so I I'd be dead which I know some people would like that but it's not going to happen 56:34 I got talking to him over here 56:37 I got my top three 56:38 you got your top three already I went out on a tangent here 56:42 and yeah, I'm still okay I'm going back to number six because I had a check check plus i probably doesn't mean actually going to go back to it but 56:48 yeah, I'm with you on six it's checks all around. 56:52 Good stuff. Missy when I when I do take a little baby poor though I still I still try to get it in my jaw line. I still chew a little bit Try to have a cover my tongue Yeah, but I also am not the way that it's just like it's not like a full like quarter round so my mouth either right it's I've got to have just enough that I can savor the flavor be able to get it to the to the point where I'm like actually chewing on my back molars 57:18 but other than that four and six are are wanting to for me or in that they're right there. I have a run off between seven and 11 and I need to be removed from from this I need you to like you need to be kicked off the panel. No, I need I need I need to be I need these to be given to me where I don't know what they are. is what I'm saying. 57:38 Well, you don't know what they are. 57:40 No, I know what they are. I know this is 11 57:42 right? I know this seven. Alright, well turn around or put your hands above your eyes and just give them to 57:48 get over here. sevens on the other glass. I'm already going to know Yeah, 57:52 it doesn't need God this is it. This is how I do things like if like if I get like really tied to a particular one. So now now what I have Do I have to like assess this from? Like, what I like more about it and so 58:05 I'm mouse like tingling right now. Yeah, he got again shot. 58:09 I need to find out which I like more seven or 11 and we may have like a tie. Well, 58:14 I don't like either, so I'll solve that for you. 58:17 There we go. No, I'm kidding. It's a it's a consensus, pursuit consensus. You know, sometimes you go back to something and you taste it. You're like, maybe I didn't realize I like that as much as the first time. 58:28 We're all drinking. 58:30 Yeah, maybe. 58:31 So I'm going to I'm going to go with 11 over seven. Due to a berry, berry accentuated note that I happen to love. Bananas. Not bananas. 58:45 What is it? 58:47 No. marzipan is not marzipan. 58:51 It's it's cornbread. 58:51 Like a like but a particular like the Gypsy cornbread not like the like the sweeter cornbread. So I'm going with 11 59:00 So my, my, my pics are four, 59:05 six and 11 59:09 four, six and 11. Okay, so we got Fred. 59:12 I didn't put that in order. You want me to order that? 59:13 Nope, that's fine. So Fred at four, six and 11. Ryan, you got your top three. 59:17 I have four, 59:19 six and 10. 59:21 Oh, gosh, you guys are on point over. So I'm going to go a little bit different. I've got six, of course. So I think so six is by far that's that's, that's in our top 11 was closed over me. I also had 10 Okay, and 11 so at 610 and 11. Okay, so six and 59:38 11 are definitely in the top two. 59:40 Yeah, absolutely. So with that, Are y'all ready? For the reveal? 59:44 What what what what's the what's the on the third? Do we want it because we want to do the third. So we all had like a 59:51 bullet. I had four. 59:52 And you know what he and you had four, 59:54 four. I had 1010 We're all waiting. Like it's kind of like a three weeks. Split right there. Yeah. So, so we basically had four 610 and 11. Were our favorites. Okay. Okay, that's three. So we'll just take those as the four. Are you ready for the reveal? Yeah, let's do it. Alright. So number one. All right, number one, everybody remembers this. 1:00:17 We all kind of put an X on it. This is the wilderness trail. Ah, bottom, the bond. 1:00:22 I said, and I said, I thought it might be JW dan. So remember that. 1:00:26 There we go. There we go. Number two, we were all right. GEORGE deco. But you know, the thing is, is that like, I really enjoyed it. I, I would, I would honestly put that out there as my top but you know, when we look at stuff that's across the market, people that are going for, I think we look at the Kentucky Bourbons of what people really want. The George decal note like you love it or you hate it. It's one or the other. It's okay. And so, you just got you just got to find it now. Here it is. Number three, Henry McKenna. Number three is Henry McHenry. I had XR 1:00:59 Look what I put I put a line through it. Like it and see. Let me replace it. It happens it happens. 1:01:06 I know I've had some McKenna's oh they're just 1:01:08 this is not this is not smell good. So but then again remember we talked about this so now I like it. No I don't like it single barrel offering now it's hits different cannonballs McKenna phone calls this one time. Number four. New Heaven Hill the new bottle and bond heaven Hill shit. Right. So 1:01:32 so it lands on the top four. Yeah, it 1:01:36 lands on the topic. I think that was number one because we were so I really liked it. 1:01:41 You did you both you both. We both put that as your number one. Yeah. CI There you go. 1:01:48 This was my second guess about it was was an old Bardstown number five. 1:01:53 You are on point. Bardstown old parts town is number five. Right? Yep. 1:02:00 I can't remember. 1:02:01 But listen, here we go this is the one that I'm most proud about because I thought I guess it and I love this brand. I love the proctor making number six is the early times 1:02:10 body. Yeah, that six was really good. 1:02:13 Yeah, it was great. 1:02:14 Yeah, yeah, right. Exactly. So I I still stand by it. I say that is the best one liter of bourbon that you find on the market for 27 1792 1:02:26 think you think that you like somebody just like mind reading over here. I'm just like sending you like notes of Allison happening. The texts of the I really, 1:02:34 I really for him, I really do drink for a living. 1:02:37 So 1792 the bottle and bond. This was a pic that was done by the wine rack here and local and global. So that was that one. Number eight. Might have a guests. 1:02:48 I didn't have a guest on not just a negative. Alright. 1:02:50 Well, this is probably the most common bourbon you're finding the market is the Evan Williams. bottle and bond. Right. So there you go. Number nine is the Jim Beam Yeah, so to access to Exodus, I mean, I, I literally literally wrote down I hate doing this because I love the book no family I it's just like I literally wrote down. I said the worst of all of it and I'm just not a fan of it. That's just that's just how it is. Sorry. Number 10. S

If you’re a bourbon die hard, you’ve probably asked yourself this question, “Do bourbon brands care about me?”. You know what I’m talking about because you join in on the conversation when distilleries increase prices or you get angry because your barrel picking group has been snubbed out for allocation reasons. The Bourbon Pursuit team takes a hard look at many of the larger whiskey producers by looking at some of their past actions. But if you’re the whiskey producer, what would you do in the same situation? Show Partners: Hotel Distil on historic Whiskey Row is set to open October 29th in Downtown Louisville. Book now to experience it for yourself at HotelDistil.com. The University of Louisville now has an online Distilled Spirits Business Certificate that focuses on the business side of the spirits industry. Learn more at uofl.me/pursuespirits. Barrell Craft Spirits enjoys finding and identifying barrels that contain distinctive traits and characteristics. They then bottle them at cask strength to retain their authentic qualities for the whiskey enthusiast. Learn more at BarrellBourbon.com. Receive $25 off your first order at RackHouse Whiskey Club with code "Pursuit". Visit RackhouseWhiskeyClub.com. Distillery 291 is an award winning, small batch whiskey distillery located in Colorado Springs, Colorado. Learn more at Distillery291.com. Show Notes: Wilderness Trail Expansion: https://amnews.com/2019/10/03/wilderness-trail-distillery-expanding-planning-huge-announcement/ Toddy’s: https://www.liquor.com/articles/best-bourbon-store-toddys-liquors/#gs.7u244v Glenlivet Scotch Pods: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/05/world/glenlivet-scotch-whisky-capsule-glassless-trnd/index.html Scotch Tariffs: https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/03/business/us-tariffs-whisky-wine/index.html This week’s Above the Char with Fred Minnick talks about line etiquette. What are your thoughts on the Heaven Hill Bottled-in-Bond relaunch? What do you think Heaven Hill did wrong in that situation? Are we moving away from a $15 price point? What about the Booker's price increase? Let's discuss Maker's attempt to lower the proof. What about Sazerac's strategy? What about Brown-Forman? What's happening with the allocation of barrel picks? Are people or groups getting cut off? 0:00 Hey everybody. If you have a bachelor's degree and live anywhere in the United States, there's now a way for you to take your bourbon education to the next level. The distilled spirits business certificate from the University of Louisville is an online program that can be completed in as little as 15 weeks and will prepare you for the business side of the spirits industry. It's offered by the ACS be accredited college of business, and this certificate was developed in partnership with industry experts to be one of a kind and it's going to prepare you for your next adventure. Learn more about this online program at U of l.me slash 0:35 pursue spirits All right, 0:37 let me see if I can't get everybody to just like Quiet on the set here. 0:41 All right, Quiet on the set. 0:56 Hey everybody, what is going on? It is Episode 220. of bourbon pursuit. I'm one of your host Kenny, and we've got a ton of news to run through. Let's not wait let's dive into it. Eagle rare bourbon is announcing the 10th annual Eagle rare life award. Now Eagle rare has partnered with garden and gun to seek nominations for the 10th annual Eagle rare life award. The award celebrates those who lead a rare life as defined by showing courage, leadership survival, devotion, character and heroism. Past recipients have included Brian Anderson representing USA cares in Jake Clark of save a warrior to nominate a remarkable individual for the annual Eagle where life award submit an application by November 3 2019. The finalists and their stories will be featured on garden and gun calm from November 15 to December 6, and they allows you to go and cast your votes. The winner of this award will be announced in early 2020. We talk all the time about how big players in the industry are always expanding but now we get to see one sort of on the mid size wilderness trail. Now you've heard from Pat heist and Shane Baker back on episodes 121 at 130. They are playing to add three new additional buildings to their site, including a 13,000 square foot addition. This is going to be an expansion of their bottling and administration buildings plus two new brick houses each totaling around 16,624 square feet. They will store 20,520 barrels each and they will be next in line for construction. The distilleries bottling operation is undergoing a $1.5 million dollar expansion right now with a new automated bottling line and warehouse space as they are going to be adding also more headcount in operations and administration. The distillery is currently wrapping up around a $6 million in capital projects for 2019 and as $8 million in projects underway for 2020. But now that you're doing close to 215 barrels of whiskey per day, you can read more about this in our show notes with the link to AM news.com. Back on episode 152. We featured Guthrie McKay of Tommy's liquors. Now this topic is polarizing to some folks. Today Guthrie charges more than secondary prices for his advocated bourbon and with this small shop that has a lot of listeners and shoppers going through, it puts them in a mixed and almost kind of gets you're frustrated and mad. But Guthrie has seen the highs and lows and he was a kind of a key and secret ingredient to helping the whiskey boom. And you can hear some of those stories that we were counted back on that episode 152 but you know Guthrie was also this week featured in a liquor.com article titled The best bourbon store on earth. And that might be a little bit of clickbait, but we've provided a few quotes to give context the story, and you can read that article with the link in our show notes as well. Jim beam's knob Creek is announcing a new limited edition bottling called quarter oak. The new release finishes knob Creek bourbon and quarter oak casks for four years. Now quarter casts are as the name suggests, one quarter the size of traditional 53 gallon barrels. And as we've seen this before, this means that there's an increase in the surface area with the charred oak relative the volume of whiskey inside. You can call it accelerated aging but it could just mean different types of taste profiles that are coming out of it. But when this finished product is going to be dumped from the Quarter Cask. It is then blended with knob Creek and bottled at 100 proof to create the knob Creek quarter oak, this is going to have a suggested retail price of $50. And with more release news heaven Hill is announcing that they are doing their first line extension of larceny, Kentucky straight bourbon whiskey larceny barrel proof released on an allocated basis three times per year. The first release of this weekend bourbon will ship in January of 2020. larceny barrel proof offers whiskey fans the opportunity to taste larceny just as heaven hills master distiller does Connor straight from the barrel. Each release will have varying proofs and consists of barrels aged of six to eight years old with releases in January may in September. This is also going to have the same naming convention that we've seen with Elijah Craig barrel proof. So the first release will be a 120 a representing the first batch of the year one representing the month with this January and 20 representing the year 2020. Each release will be bottled at barrel proof non chill filtered and available at a suggested retail price of 4999. we first saw it with black and which is metallic is new whiskey, followed by collaboration Slipknot with an Iowa whiskey company and now few spirits and Warner Music artists services are announcing a new release called all secrets know which is a new limited edition bourbon distilled by few spirits master distiller Paul help go in collaboration with Grammy nominated and multi Platinum selling Seattle grunge pioneers. Allison chains now whose music has also stood the test of time and pollutes a generation as well as a lot of whiskey lovers out there two bottles will feature a custom design label by artists Justin Helton. For this release few bourbon is finished for six months in tequila barrels bottled at 101 proof and will have an MSRP or suggested retail price of $75. This game this is how bourbon pursuit we hardly ever really talked about scotch, but the Glenlivet has the internet up in arms because they have released something that was new. It was a video and the Internet has coined it scotch pots. They are clear seaweed wraps that are completely edible and have a cocktail in a clear capsule, Glenlivet partnered with a sustainable startup on this new idea, and it has everyone talking about it. Some folks thought it was April Fool's in October, but we'll see who has the last laugh on this one. If they catch on, they will be served during London celebration of college tail innovation through October 13. And you can read about that with more in our show notes. We've talked about terrorists on the podcast before and terrorists, the retaliation are coming back harder and harder. The US is now going to be imposing a 25% tariff on scotch whiskey being imported into the US. This is going to increase the price of scotch for Americans. The US is the largest market with over $1 billion of scotch whiskey being exported in 2018. Well, perhaps this might get more people drinking bourbon in the end, but who knows what the outfall of this could be. You can read more about it with the link in our show notes as well. Now speaking of what things that we have going on, our community took one for the team and selected a barrel at Traverse City which ended up being a seven year in GP, or incredibly fortunate that we get to bring these experiences to our Patreon community and happy that all these whiskey geeks get to be a part of them. We have a new barrel pic to announce which is in addition to our last one week that we announced which is our Eagle wearable are also adding in to 2019 k jack daniels barrel proof that will be taking place in December. This is going to bring our 2019 tally to 19 barrels selected. And we've already got our first barrel lineup for 2020 as well. Thanks once again to our retail partner, keg and bottle out of the San Diego area for making this all happen. You can go check out their website and get whiskey shipped straight to your door at keg the letter in bottle.com. today's podcast it's one for the diehards, you know who you are because you join in the conversation when distilleries are increasing their prices are you get angry because your barrel picking group got snubbed because of allocation reasons. Now the trio of bourbon pursuit we're here to talk about some of the actions that we've seen over the past year and contemplate. Do bourbon companies actually care about their consumers? Or is this just a part of a bigger game that we all have to play? We mentioned it towards the end of the show. But if 9:00 You're a producer and you're listening to us. Just know that we love you. And we do our best to play devil's advocate. But there's some things that we saw that we really feel like we should take the bourbon communities view and kind of really talk about it put out there in the open and see what happens. So hope you're going to enjoy this one. Alright, so let's get down to it. Here's Joe from barrell bourbon. And then you've got Fred Minnick. What's up the char? It's Joe from barrell bourbon. We enjoy finding and identifying barrels that contain distinctive traits and characteristics. We then bottle them a cash rank to retain their authentic qualities for the whiskey enthusiast. Keep up to date with our newsletter at barrell bourbon.com. 9:37 I'm Fred Minnick. And this is above the char, I reached out to my followers on Twitter for this idea, and bourbon West came up with a good one. He wanted to know how we could improve the etiquette of standing in lines for bourbon. And he's speaking in particular of the etiquette towards the distillery, the store owner, the proprietary, he's saying that he sees some disgusting behavior out there when it comes to standing in line for these were bottles. So thanks, bourbon west for this idea. And here's the thing, if we want bourbon so badly, that we're willing to camp out overnight stand in a long line, I bring my kids to these things. So I have to it's it's the only way I can get there because my wife will be out of town or she'll be running. And the only way I can go to a lot of these events is if I bring my kids and so right then and there. I'm kind of like an odd man out people look at me funny because I've got my kids. And I'm standing in line for bourbon. So they're like, there's there's your dad of the year. But you do see people like get very angry toward the store owner, if they are the last in line and they don't get a bottle. Or they're at the front and they can't get what they want. Or they see a bottle in the store and the store owner wants sell it to them. I've seen people yell, I've seen people throw tantrums. And then you see people on social media afterwards, just absolutely tearing apart a business for them not selling him a bottle. And is that right? Well, you know, it's free speech. And people have the they can do whatever they want. But when you're inside someone's property, and you are there as a customer, there are some things that you should do first, you should never really raise your voice to the store owner. That could be you know, considered threatening, and, you know, if somebody wanted to, they could kick you out, and you should be just a good decent human being. You got to remember this whole bourbon thing. It's, it's just a hobby. It isn't something it's not life and death. We're not curing cancer. We're trying to get a nice bottle of bourbon. So treat people with respect. And so there are three rules that I recommend that everyone carry when it goes into the stores. dress nice it This may sound very weird, but people do not act like assholes when they dress nice. Now what is nice now you know I wear an ascot I'm not saying you have to do that, for God's sake. I'm the only person left on the planet still wearing the damn things. But you know, maybe like a like a polo shirt and khakis and a pair of nice shoes. And you'll find that you don't want to be a dickhead when your dress pretty nicely. Number to say thank you. Even if you do not get the bottle you want the store manager, the store clerk anybody you interact with the distillery whoever, just say thanks. And number three, the people who you're around with start talking to them. Where are they from? Some of the best friends I've made in bourbon have been from standing in line at these places. You really do meet some cool people. They'll be from all over the state or country and sometimes even out of the country because it's their only opportunity to get a rare bottle. So just practice those three things. And it seems like little but hopefully it will diffuse someone else from being a dickhead when they're shopping bourbon. And that's this week's above the char. Hey, if you have an idea like bourbon West did hit me up on Twitter or Instagram at Fred Minnick. That's at Fred Minnick. Until next week. Cheers. 13:15 welcome back to this episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon, the whole trio here today. Wow, hoping we don't burn some bridges. Right? I mean, we're going to be bringing the heat putting some people under some fire. But also, I think speaking for the broader bourbon community that's out there, because we're going to be talking and the subject is, you know, do distilleries actually care about their customers? And this is we thought about this idea. Because, gosh, what was it probably six months ago, we had this this concept of like, everything The news was changing. There's people that are taking off products, there's allocations of barrels that are just getting axed across the board from Yeah, as Fred always said, people that took you to the dance. So today, we're going to, 13:57 you know, barrel programs not kind of going he usually just made it him. 14:02 And so that's exactly what today we're really gonna be focusing on is, is looking at and hopefully, you know, I think we're going to take some, put some fire, put some heat and do some people, we all got to play a little devils advocate, right? Kind of will, one of us one of us will kind of take the role of, well, if the distillers that if I'm the distiller here, like, what's my response? Male? Fuck 14:21 it, let's just, whatever, whatever I mean, it this is this is a conversation that we need to have. Yeah, they need to know, we need to have this conversation because they're, you know, I feel like sometimes distilleries live in a bubble. They live in a bubble of their bottom line, and, you know, help benefiting their shareholders. And the informations out there. It's not like they can't go to a social media forum and find the data find, find people conveying their feelings about what consumers want and what they need. You know, their two years ago, they'd spent $150,000, to get the kind of feedback that is free now. Yeah, on social media. And what I have found consistently, is that they continue to ignore a lot of what people want, or what at least what they're saying they want on social media. 15:20 Absolutely. Well, they got short memories. They forget that like, just 10 or 15 years ago, nobody gave a shit about them. 15:27 So before we also kick it off and dive even further, you know, if you're watching on video, you might be hearing some background noise and people shuffling through because we are recording an episode of this podcast from the barrel room at Hotel distil, which is going to be on historic whiskey row here in Louisville, and it's set to open on November 1. And hotel distill is a place that is exciting. It's got a rich history that's happening here. It's now being transformed into this great space. It's designed to really, you know, what they say is ignite your passion for discovery and we'll do this 16:00 Social anchor for Louisville's revitalization and refinement of bourbon culture and you can book your experience now and stay at this authentic little destination at Hotel distil com. Yeah, I think this JTS Browns office they said at one point there Yeah, this is the actual building his office I had no idea Fred you got any insight into Yeah, this is this is the this is one of the I actually have an old photo of of like the 16:28 an old photo of like the outside and said JTS Brown, it was actually out there. 16:31 Yeah. facade. 16:33 Yeah. And, you know, a lot of cool things happened in here. 16:37 It just amazes like 1015 years ago, all this was like a dump. And yeah, I mean, it was it was like a Renaissance. I mean, 16:43 it was I saw what whiskey row was. I mean, I remember one of our first podcast we did was actually saving whiskey row and what it was, and all the effort that went in for historical and preservation societies of what it went to actually save a lot of the buildings and the facades that you do see out here, 16:57 guys, I want you to think about this. You know, in the 1800s, early 1900s, there were fellows walking around and their suits, go into meetings, and they were brokering deals about bulk whiskey. And they were talking about, like, you know, exporting it to Japan or Germany or wherever. I mean, this is where all the action happened. for American whiskey, where it's like, we're right here at the wall street of whiskey. I really don't like using that term, but it is it really is. And it just kind of went away. And level. You know, I and I give a lot of this credit to our mayor, Mayor Fischer. Greg Fischer. I really don't think, you know, any of this Renaissance happens without, you know, kind of like his, his vision to like, improve, improve this part of our culture. 17:46 Well, and I know and it might be a slider, Ryan, you know, he always has this famous line that you know Bardstown as the capital of bourbon, but it still is global is the epicenter of bourbon. Well, maybe now. 17:58 10 years ago, not so much. Nobody cared about down there, down here. They saw how cool it was in barge towns, they're like, Oh, we gotta do we gotta go do it now. 18:05 Absolutely. 18:06 So I'll play a Bardstown can put up some hotels like this, I think 18:10 they missing it. They need this, put a distill and bars down the awesome. Here we go. 18:15 So let's go ahead. And let's dive back into the subjects here. And let's go ahead and we'll take we'll take an easy one, right. I mean, this is one that is a recent news because as people in ourselves live in little boy live in Kentucky, we had access to the white label have six year Heaven and Hell bottle and bond. And it was a, you know, it kind of made. It was pretty big news, right? I mean, when they said they were gonna take it off the market. However, there was no announcement to say that there was going to be a relaunch, there's no anything like that. It was just something that I think it usually kind of started through the grapevine where the distributors found out about it distributors told the retailers, the retailers then told the consumers and then from there, everything went kind of Bismarck, and people just started clearing the shelves left and right. And Kentucky is actually finding this, this white label. And fast forward two to three months afterwards, then a press release comes out that says they're gonna be relaunching with an additional year, and, you know, three x the actual price of what it was before, before you can get it around, what 1215 bucks. And then it was coming back with an SRP of $40. But not only this is also be going out a little bit further outside of Kentucky hitting I think, what 678 states something like that during its first launch. So let's kind of talk about that. What do you think heaven hell did wrong in this situation? 19:41 Well, they, we kind of talked about this on the round table, but you know, that they think we're like stupid or something like they just totally like think, as consumers, like, we'll put out this press release. And just believe what we say. And it happened with the logic, Craig 12. You know, for years, we were like, we're like, oh, we're gonna move the 12 from the front to the back. And you're like, is it going away, no, never, never gone away. And then it goes from the back. It's not no longer and a number, they write the letter 12 or the word 12 on the back. And then after that, and it's like, you think we're stupid, then they do the same thing with heaven Hill, like six year they'd say, Oh, it's going away and never coming back. And then, you know, home to hold. Three months later, get a press release. And so it's like, I get what they're doing, they're going to try to make it a more premium product to the mainstream audience. But like 10 to 15 years ago, nobody cared about you. 20:40 I mean, let's let's also, I'll take their side, little bit here, you know, not even told that that was really happening. Not a ton of people really cared about the white label. I mean, it was always available. It's always there. It was something that was kind of our whiskey geek. Like it was like the thing you knew about like, you're like, that's the bottle that you go, that's 99 or 1099, that you could always count on as a 21:04 great poor at a great value. And like you said, it was kind of you had to be in the know to know about it. 21:10 To answer your question, Kenny, I think the one thing that the mistake they made was transparency. And I I'm very, very close with with heaven Hill, I think their whiskies fantastic. Some of the best I mean, I they do a great job. But I think in this growth of American whiskey, there has been a, there still has been a little bit of this kind of like old school protectionism, of holding on to their ideas and what they're going to be doing, you know, to kind of protect it from, you know, their competitors finding out. Well, really what has happened is that consumers, we feel like we have a right to know, of like, what's happening, 22:00 But what are they hiding? Like? It's whiskey. Like they act like they got like 22:06 you would if they said, We are pulling heaven hills, six year old off the market, to rebrand it, and bring it back as a seven year old bottle and bond at an additional price to more consumers? Would you be? See that's just I think most people would be fine with that. And the last thing I would have been fine with, hey, we really want this to stay available on shelves, we don't want to be like, well, they're 12. So that's why we're going to drop the age statement, kind of do a blend of eight to 12 which, by the way, they 12. So I mean, I was to use Preston van winkles term, I was bought hurt for probably about two years. 22:45 You still don't let it go. 22:47 But it was Elijah Craig 12 years is like so 22:50 tricky. Just like, like we're in it, but the age statement, you know, write it on the back and like had it and then eventually just phase it out and then change it. 22:58 I also so so that that's to me is the only thing the business decision to do it. I don't have a problem with and I don't think it's them not caring about their consumers? I think it's I think it's simply a I think they make a decision and they try to think about the best way to release it. And they're not thinking about necessarily the backlash and the whiskey geek state, we are still very much a very small portion. We are the one percenters 23:23 right, that's that's the one one thing I think, if I keep taking the distillery side of this, and I keep thinking, well, if I'm heaven Hill, I, my goal is to look at the broader market, right? My goal is to focus on that. And when I even put out these press releases, who cares? Except, you know, the 10,000 people that are like really hardcore into this, right. And 23:47 I'm still just flabbergasted by like, they think they have this secret stuff. Do you think like Buffalo Trace gives a shit that they're taking heaven Hill six off year and bringing it and relaunching it like, what do they? What do they think they're hiding? Like, I didn't mean from a competitive stamp, right? Like, yeah, I mean, this, whiskey takes years to develop to what it becomes. And so like, when you announce something, you've thought about it for a very long time, like, somebody just can't replicate it, like a month later, you know, 24:14 let's remember to 14 years ago, when there was like, there were like, two or three of us out there, kind of writing about this sort of thing. Now, I mean, you have a sea of social media, people, you know, finding a bottle, you know, analyzing every single thing, and it's very knowledgeable base. And so we can, you know, people can find out things really quickly. And also heaven hills got a you know, they have a few people in their organization that, you know, will get on social media and or under anonymous handles and say things. So there's that some moles they have, 24:52 they have some leaders. And so does that mean, they all do? 24:55 Nailed it? So I'll take the other side of this. And we had Larry cast on the show, right? You know, before he retired, and Larry is still being even in his retirement. He's actually been very outspoken on this even on social media and Hall 25:07 of Famer, by the way, yes, yes. 25:08 Recent inductee to it. Yeah. And, you know, he goes against the saying is insane. Like, the brand has been undervalued for far too long. True. And it's and it's very true. I think, I think bourbon in itself has been undervalued for this is very true. I agree with all that. But I guess, you know, when we look at it from another standpoint of, you know, if we're going to, is there a market to keep bringing $15 bottles of whiskey or where are we past that because it had been that way for so long is it do we just need to move on. And 25:37 so I've done some research and the studies show that when you raise prices, you actually get more customers. And I've witnessed many people go into liquor stores and my various, you know, book signings and stuff and you know, they're new to bourbon, they don't know anything about it. And the the store rap will try to get someone to buy four roses yellow label, and they'll look at the price. And they say, No, it's too cheap. I want that one. And they'll point to like Jefferson's reserve. And I'm picking I'm picking four roses yellow label every day of the week, over Jefferson's reserve. We still love Trey about Yeah, still. Yes, but but that from a value perspective, you know, I'm saying it's like, that's like, it's, you know, I'm saving pennies, or I'm saving, you know, 1015 bucks. Absolutely. But the the everyday consumer looks at this as a luxury good. And $15 isn't luxury. And that's that's kind of where they're, that's where these these distillers you're coming from? 26:38 Yeah, and understand that from like, if you're buying a gift or wanting to try something special, but if you're wanting like, quality everyday drinkers, you know that you gotta have an affordable option like 30 $30 for heaven Hill balled and bond, I think, or whatever, it's gonna be $40. I think it's overpriced for what it is. I'm, it's me, it's good. But I can drink some great, didn't you? 27:04 Me it was that great. He kept he kept 27:05 himself from 27:08 Above Average? 27:11 Well, I mean, from an everyday drinker to like, Am I going to go buy it at 40. Whereas if I would have it, you know, constantly on my bar, but they don't care about me, they care about the mass audience. And so, 27:22 all right, so here's the here's the sad, hard truth of it. The only line against this is the bartender, the bartender, has to have it at a surf a certain price in order for them to make money. And you can't make a $40 cocktail, right? You gotta it's got to be 10 to 15. So that's why that's why like in scotch, you know, they have like monkey shoulder and Glenlivet, 12 year old, you know, it's very affordable, you know, well, scotches, and the bartender community will always make sure that we have a 15 to $25 bird, because they have to make money on it. And you know, Larry rice is not going to be making cocktails with you know, $55 bourbon. 28:09 Absolutely. So I guess that's the kind of like, makes me think of another question. Like, if one of the main strategies behind bullet and how bullet became so big was because they were able to get behind the bar. Yeah. So in bullet is not a 15 $20 bottle, right. I mean, last time I checked, it's still in the 35 to $50 category. I don't 28:29 know I actually I've seen it for I saw like $18 Cosmo, is it? 28:33 Yeah, well, nevermind. Yeah. bullets in the sub $25 range, we found out what Kenny doesn't buy. 28:41 Just don't pay that much attention, apparently. 28:45 So I think we beat up on heaven Hill a little bit. So I think, 28:48 well not beat up on them. It's just they know, the criticism. And they, they they see it. And it's also stuff that I wouldn't tell them to their face. You know, like, I guess we'll do it on the podcast. back. No one's gonna hear the end day always push back of like, we are. We're a business and we're trying to make money. What I really the thing about it is I also feel bad for heaven Hill, because they get they do get a lot of blowback, and poor Bernie lovers. That guy's doing his job. 29:21 Yeah, but they do it themselves. They do it 29:22 themselves. But Bernie's like, sometimes just kind of left on an island. He's got to be the punching bag, you know? And it's like, I hope they're paying him well, and if not, they need to give him a raise, because that he takes a lot of a 29:34 lot of abuse. And it feels he gotta have a little bit of empathy for him too, because he ends up being like the spokesperson for the brand. I mean, yeah, right. Ryan, do you remember when we interviewed him? We had a two part interview. And we actually asked him, we asked him about Elijah Craig, and the 12 year age statement. And he looked, I mean, he came and he said, and he has no, it's not going away. You know, we're just moved to the back and little blah. And then, like, two months later, 29:57 again, whoops. Yeah, you know, we had to do this because make it available. And it's like, well, two minutes later, it was available and what changed it to 30:05 remember to like, automation, he had, oh, it's not his fault. It's and that's the and that's also the information that the someone gave him had, you know, so, you know, the decision was made that I have no doubt that, you know, they're looking at stocks and they're looking at where the future is and everything, and they make they make decisions in a moment and, and then everyone else is is forced to, like kind of 30:31 catch up to it. I guess. I just don't understand. I understand. Yes, Bourbons undervalued. I totally agree with that. But that's what your logic Craig's your inner McKenna's your Evan Williams single barrels your William heaven hills that's what they're those are brands are for heaven Hill has been a everyday affordable drinker. I don't understand why pivot takeaway from those brands to position this one when it's been like a bomb on the shelf all for all i also 30:58 think so you're thinking one particular thing get to realize when you go to Heaven Heaven hell we've all been in the label room there's hundreds of thousands of labels that they have maybe not hundreds but the definitely thousands Yeah, and I'm pretty sure like a bought every abandoned trademark of Oh, I just don't know that. So let me keep going here because I know when you think about the heaven hell bottom Yvonne that's one thing but you still got Evan lanes bottle and bond. You've got virgin you've got all these things but don't get me wrong I know people are starting to hate on the virgin thing now because they're dropping the age statement off that one as well. So you know it's just a continual progression of what are they going to be able to do 31:32 be honest that was the best marketing that virgin ever had no one knew about that fucking perfect. I mean, we can hear me there's like we knew about it sounded but like i was i was cracking up with like all these people like, like you didn't know about that bourbon. It was a very like I mean, heaven Hill bottle the mom people knew about it, but it's like out of the woodwork they're all a virgin fan. Like Come on. 31:54 Yeah, that was where it was mostly in like North Carolina Yeah. 31:58 There was like a Washington's like, I can't get any worse. Like you couldn't get it anyway. 32:02 Yeah, you know, so not even be tried. But 32:04 it's like I don't know what you're saying they 32:06 still came out. I mean, they rebranded it and came out of quality house right. So it's still still the same box he you know, 32:14 let's mean heaven hills seven years old and bond thousand barrel dump is not a $40 bottle like it 32:24 I get it, it's a rebranding. It's a way to do this. I mean, you can also see this as a way that you know, they they wanted to remove the name heaven Hill, from lower in tears, like, okay, green labels not 32:35 gone away the 90 proof one, you know why? Because someone in the Shapiro family, that's what they buy. Oh, well, so it's on their it's on their bar inside. And so it'll it'll always be there because they that's what they drink. You know, I think it's probably important that we also look at some of the some of the brands that have reacted to consumers pushing back pricing. Like when Booker's announced that they were going to be $100 bottle, you know, they went, they they reverted pretty quickly, because they were like, they were getting a murder. Remember that? 33:13 Oh, yeah, just it was 33:14 11 years ago, they changed it, but yeah, 33:16 they changed it back. And, you know, they didn't have to change any branding or anything. But, you know, they still have a little bit of residual 33:25 in I mean, to be fair Booker's, probably, I mean, it's a barrel proof six year like, really good bourbon. I mean, 33:32 I used to get it for 55 bucks. Yeah. And it was it was 33:37 the most incredible values out there. 33:38 That is a that is to me, that was a more palatable, you know, price increase. You know, they decided change, I think it's 75 or something like that. CSRP now it's about it's probably right where it needs to be and I think people are happy with 33:54 that you were still happy with that. And I mean, I still recommend it to people who haven't tried something and you want to you know, start elevating and trying to go barrel proof and you know, to kind of just take a note off your above the char from weeks ago, you know, being able to experience the different flavors you can get with barrel proof by starting at barrel proof, adding some water adding some ice letting the ice melt, you know, you get you get to experience bourbon five different ways. In a in a barrel proof whiskey like that. So 34:20 some you can always find to, but you know, 34:22 Becker, Booker's isn't the only one remember makers, even what had been five years ago about the 2013? The proof? 34:29 Yeah, the proof debacle, they still won't, they still won't talk about it. So for our listeners out there, this is what happened in 2013, Maker's Mark decided to lower their proof from 90 proof to 84. And they announced it to their brand ambassadors, which is their program that they have for their sir customer loyalty program. So they sent an email to it and people in batch it crazy. It was it was it ended up being front page news, Jay Leno, or one of the you know, the talk shows were talking about it. He was on CNN, it was everywhere. And I got like this. I was I was covering it very, very intensely. And I got these interviews with Bill Samuels and Rob Samuels. And I remember bill saying like, oh, son of a bitch, I guess people really care about our wisdom, you know. And it's like, they say, Bill always has this way of like, making everything sound funny and putting things in perspective. But they changed it back. But to this day, people think people think it's a, it was a marketing ploy, because it was only eight days that they had it out there. But think about it, they had to change their labels, you know, they had to pull. Well, they had they already had products out there had 35:42 a product out there. I mean, and that's kind of I think, I wouldn't say it's a unicorn by any means. But it's definitely a unique bottle that people could have how many 84 proof? maker's marks do you have? I don't 35:52 even think I've ever had it or tried it. 35:55 Not to have you had it, lady? I know. I bet it I they actually I tasted it on the air for a TV station. I was like, yeah, this is it's more watered down. It was like very light. There you go. I mean, really, it's makers is not the I mean, it's nice, but it's not the most complex whiskey. You know, it's it's fine for what it is. But I really did think it was a bad move from a whiskey perspective, because you could taste the difference. You really could. 36:18 Yeah, but I think they've they've been able to rebound and with flying colors. So I haven't really had a problem. 36:26 These companies need like somebody on their team, like they have like bean counters, like making these decisions. You 36:31 know, like, I mean, let's not like in the in the government, they just don't have, like, the government has like someone from like, so the VA has like veterans on committees, to, like have like a veteran oversight committee to make sure that the veterans are getting treated like they should be instead of like the, you know, the doctors want, maybe you want to treat them. And I think you're right, I think that might not be a bad idea. But you know what, they're never going to go for it. And you know, and here's an example I can think of like Sazerac in a lot of people's eyes. They're their public enemy number one. And that's that's because their stuff is highly allocated hard to get. But it's so damn good. Yeah, so I mean, it's same with heaven Hill, their whiskey so damn good. It's kind of like you know, it's kind of like the it's a love hate relationship. Exactly. It's like the the girlfriend you had in high school who couldn't stand but she was so hot, ready? 37:26 Like, I can't help myself, like crap, but yeah, I can't stop 37:31 it. So I guess, you know, will kind of shift the gears a little let's talk about Sazerac. 37:38 As the saying goes, Portland is weird. Perhaps it's something in the water. It turns out that there might be some truth to that. The Oregon capitals primary water source is supplied by the bowl run watershed. It's also the key ingredient and one of the city's most popular watering holes, Bull Run distillery, the boulder and watershed is a very unique water source. It's protected by an act of Congress back in the 1870s. And the city's 38:00 Others got their hands on a beautiful lake up in the Cascade Mountains. And it's been that way since the 1870s. It used to flow through wooden pipes by gravity to Portland. 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Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. distillery 291 Colorado whiskey aims to create a one of a kind bold and beautiful Colorado whiskey, rugged, refined, rebellious owner and founding distiller Michael Myers built the original still from copper photocopier plates, which he used to create in during photographic scenes from Western landscapes to the Chrysler Building. 39:00 on sep tember 11th 2011 10 years after 911 changed his life and the lives of so many others. He pulled the first whiskey off that's still building a future in whiskey office passion for photography. What defines to 91 Colorado whiskey is it spirit passion permeates every sip, find a bottle near you at 291 Colorado whiskey calm, right like you stole it, drink it like you own it, live fast and drink responsibly. Let's will kind of shift the gears a little let's talk about Sazerac. You know, I I will say that the one thing I will I will stand behind size rock. And what they do very well is that they are not pulling the strings of saying like okay, well, we're going to pull something off the market or we're going to just say like, Hey, we see what this stuff trades for we're not dumb, we're going to go ahead and we're going to MSRP our products at x, y, z value, right? They I believe that they are in it for the long game. Like Yeah, I'm they see this is not this is just a quick market blip, where it's going to be something that you know, if you chase after the short money in the short dollar, then that's all you're going to wait, that's that's all it's going to happen. Like you're not going to be able to sustain this for the next 1015 years. So you brought up a good point, because a lot of people distilleries do look at the secondary market, even though say they don't but to especially for limited releases, they really have kind of fell on the secondary market to price things. For me, it's gone up up up and up every single year. And where it says right, it's kind of kind of stay true to like, I mean, I don't me wrong, there's been there's been gradual increases. I mean, if you take it back to 2010 days, you know, antique collection was probably $65, whatever, but going up to 100. Like that's not a that's not a good, that's not a huge ship. 40:48 Parker's was 5575 bucks. And now it's like 400, depending on you know, that 24 years, like 400 bucks or 300 bucks 40:57 retail, and then you take a birthday bourbon, for example, back in 2003, that was a $45 bottle. Now, it's 161 60 out the door at the distillery. So I mean, it's, it's, that's definitely 41:11 something way that the way that says rack operates is basically through the brain of Mark Brown. And Mark is a very conservative, you know, thinker when it comes to business and how they do things. But he's also a long term planner, they have planned out their whiskey projections through 2043. So they are they are that planned out. And they have made the appropriate, you know, business decisions that, you know, to get them where they need to be, I think that the biggest concern that consumers have with the way that company operates is through distribution. Now a lot of it is not anything that they can control. You go into a retailer or an on premise facility. And they will tell you, the only way that they can get Pappy or Buffalo Trace antique collection is if they carry Wheatley, vodka or some of the others as rack brands in large quantities now, that is that is a decision that is made at the distributor level is not. 42:18 That's because I always I always kind of thought like, somehow there's something working in the back the back room over here. And there's greasy palms to be able to say like, you 42:26 know, I'm saying like, if you want this, you gotta that is a very good conspiracy theory to have. But as of right now, it is illegal, you know, to have those conversations for it is illegal for a, a supplier to dictate who gets what, that is an actual law. That is under the federal alcohol administration act. Now, what is happening? I don't know. But I do know that everybody wants that whiskey. And, you know, how does how does the distributor make the decision of who to give it to? Now I've had conversations with people like Joe Beatrice, who's like, the only way you can do this is, you know, top, top level now, you know, customer loyalty. And so it's like, you know, how do they How does the distributor make the decision of who gets the five bottles of Pappy? Is it a? Is it a favoritism thing? Because if that's the case, that's also you know, is that is that fair? Is it you give it to the one who's like doing you're doing your bulk purchases, I've also heard of them like, like the distributors making decisions of like giving using Pappy to get rid of non Sazerac product. So like being would be in their portfolio or, you know, another big brand like that and say like, take up, take all this off of her hand, and you get you get a case of happy. So that stuff happens. And that is not, you know, to my knowledge, you know, I don't know how that you know how those conversations are going. Well, you don't know that's 43:59 the necessarily sighs rags. Yeah. Problem. It's, it comes back to them. But do you think they falsely manipulate their supply? Like to create this allocation? Like myth or because every time I go to Buffalo Trace, there's, they're always bottling blends, and it's always piled up cases? Because it's like what they have done. They got as many warehouses as all these 44:25 other big boys. Yeah, but you gotta realize they're also filling in the hand doing every single one with six people on the line. That's not that's not heaven. Hill level automation. 44:33 Yeah. What a lot of warehouses a lot age juice in there. I mean, this is true. 44:38 What what they do, they do put out, they used to put out an annual press release, about that, and it got picked up everywhere. You know, a smart marketing will say that. But what what Buffalo Trace has done is that they have spread the markets out so much like so let's say, you know, they're trying to penetrate every market in the country. My best friend lives in northern Wisconsin. He's building a Buffalo Trace, really now he can only have one bottle a month, because, you know, because now that northern allocations is moving on over to North Dakota. And so what they have done is they have they're trying to saturate the domestic markets so much that they've spread themselves out of being able to get into the hands of a lot of people so so that allocation that supply is because they're trying to open up bars in Montana, and places like Montana and Wyoming North Dakota. You know, I dare say you walk into a random liquor store there and you might you might find like a gold mine of like Sazerac products. 45:42 Well, where are they? Who are they using their, you know, everyday products like Buffalo Trace or Willer will or 12? To kind of fuel the more premium products like v tak and Pappy, do you think that you know, I mean, most of the most of what they do is they come out with a a lower version of everything that you get stack Junior, you gotta go rare, and then you get the big boys on top. But I know it seems like there's more like 12 year, it's I think it's sometimes easier to get a van Winkle 12 than it is a well or 12 zalando 46:12 you know, well, I think that's this is also just the the rise and the rise of bourbon and the amount of people that are looking forward to I mean, that's we say it's it's hard. It's it's not because yes, I still think there's I would honestly, probably guess that there's probably they're pushing out more product now than they ever have. But it seems still scares to us, because there's still more people now that are looking for it. 46:36 It's I'll put on their hat for a second. They have everybody in the world wants them. How do you how do you decide? What market gets what? 46:47 Yeah, I mean, that's that's it's definitely a tough call. Because you've gotta you gotta take one out of your your your playbook here is is who's been with us for the longest time who are the most loyal customers? Who are the ones with the biggest pockets right now that are really want us? I mean, Money Talks, like let's not be Bernie lovers always said it the best. This is not the bourbon charities the bourbon business. Yeah. And so who's got who's got money? money's gonna talk. And if, if by some chance and Ryan, we know, we've looked at this when we were opening up distribution for pursuit series, and we're like, oh, what state should we go for? And he did a trip down to Texas. And really, I 47:23 always forget that you to like on a brand. Like we're having this conversation. I'm like, wait, you guys hate your customers. 47:30 We listened to our customer feedback. We listened and we go, we go to a snail's pace. But I mean, but but the part was, you know, he said, like, let's look at Texas. And you look at Texas, and he came back from a trip. He was like, Kenny, this is this is so smart. Like why not? There's like, there are more people in the city of Dallas than there are in the state of Kentucky three times as many people in the city of Dallas as there is in the whole state of Kentucky. And then you got states or cities like Houston, San Antonio Austin, and you're like, why would you know, any liquor company would be smart to in they're thirsty. They're thirsty for it, right? And it's like, Okay, well, that's that's an easy target. So you go after the larger markets. 48:12 Dallas bourbon club, shout out to you boys. Yeah. 48:15 Peach MIT. Mm hmm. And so I mean, like, those are the those are the kind of three ways that I look at it. If I'm a if I'm a, you know, brand owner, and I want to figure out if I've got an allocated whiskey, how do I get into the hands of the people? That's the that's the way I'm going to go. Right. Do you have any kind of other thoughts on 48:32 I mean, just going back to what Fred said, like they're trying to get into these new markets, and I think they're trying to position themselves because they're, they're all pumping out a ton of juice. So when the product finally becomes of age, they don't they have us as customers already. So it's like, we need to go promoted other places. So when we do have this stock available, we can spread it out everywhere, not in whereas if they just focused on us bourbon, consumers are going to have a whiskey glut. 48:59 Well, they want to find new consumers too. Yeah. I mean, that's what I mean. Yeah, absolutely. We can't keep selling it to the same three guys here that have more bottles, and they can drink for the rest of their life. Right? They want to find new customers. And that's Yeah, that's really helpful. 49:11 Guys, that's what it comes down to. And you know, what, I saw that in the magazine business, you know, like, one of the big reasons why I decided to go out on my own for with the magazine is because the magazines I was writing for, were pursuing new audiences that would require me to be writing about cocktails, and you know, and not the stories that I wanted to tell. And so anytime you anytime you, ESPN did this to ESPN is inserted VH one and MTV. Anytime you water down, like what was the essence of what you were trying to do. And you're trying to reach a new audience, you're always going to like, appear, like you don't care about your original customer. It's just how it is you can grow 50:00 well, you cannot lose it. Well, to make it appeal to the mass market, you always have to like dumb it down to where like, because you have to make it appeal to everyone versus like a very small niche. And so that small niche that you appeal to at first, you kind of have to break away from them. Because the everyday consumer is not gonna be as passionate as that very small niches. Yeah, we're fairly early adopters. 50:24 Yeah. But you know, people they got a pivot to right now just think of MTV, like, I remember the last time I watched a music video on TV, but if I watch a music video, it's usually on YouTube, right? There's a new platform that takes over and takes care of that. But YouTube's a multi dimensional platform for all that kind of stuff. But you know, I kind of want to 50:40 talk about bourbon pursuit. Absolutely. 50:42 Absolutely. We will never done down 50:46 in Minnick media while we keep doing the shout outs here. Yeah. So let's, let's talk about two more brands. While we kind of wrap this up a little bit. You know, there's there's one brand that comes to mind. You know, we talked about old forester birthday bourbon, but brown Forman, I think they do an aggressive audible job of really not pissing off the consumer base, you know, they've got products that are continually coming out at aggressive price points. And, and really, they've only got it. Should I say, besides all four, it's a birthday bourbon, and they get king in Kentucky, they don't have a whole lot of stuff. That is the super premium, highly allocated stuff. And so they are continually trying to just make everyday solid products. 51:23 Yeah, I mean, the the old forester extensions, like great, everyday like, drinker. I mean, the bottom bond, the 86. I mean, those are like, I could drink the right, yes, they just came out well, but I mean, like these prohibition series, I mean, like the 1910, like, in 1920, just always, consistently blow my socks off. Every time I drink. I'm like, this is really good at 50 to 60. Buck. And one thing, one thing that 51:50 Chris Morris did with the prohibition series, is when they when they are know, when they did the wheat whiskey release with Woodford, you know, they it wasn't prohibition series was with Woodford, they sent the release out and said, We have now released every single type of whiskey that was allotted in the 1935 federal alcohol administration act, and I was just like, oh my god. And I'm like, there's probably not another person in the world who gave that we should talk about that. But I was like, I was like, the fact that you know, and they're released, they're dropping, like, one of the greatest, like legal documents I've ever read. And I was like, I was like, I can't kid in the candy store with that press release. I didn't publish it, but I was, you know, it was very well done. And that the thing about brown Forman is that they overly think, you know, so while they while they are doing a lot of this stuff, I also think they've been kind of left behind in a lot of these conversations of like, you know, you just mentioned you don't have a lot of allocated stuff. You know, so in like, if you are if you're if you're thinking about it, like is that not a good thing? I mean, because now you know, heaven hills got a lot of highly allocated stuff for roses highly Alec a lot of highly allocated stuff, and so does Buffalo Trace. And I don't see why, you know, brown Forman doesn't because their whiskey out of the barrel is incredible. 53:18 And we think it's because they promoted like Woodford so hard out the gate versus and kind of left old fo just a winner and then now it's kind of regain popularity. I think old foresters coming back hard. 53:30 Yeah, I birthday bourbon is highly allocated, by the way. It's very, very much is it but I look at 53:35 at what the resurgence of old forester as the same resurgence we see with 1792, right? Like, how many people were really like gung ho talk about 1792. and still they started coming off with all these extensions of their bottle and bond. Yeah, foolproof. Sweet. Hi, Robert. It's a 53:52 very interesting comparison because they have they both have a very unique note in there that I detect in both of them. No, bananas. Yeah, banana. No. You have to also remember that the beast of brown Forman is the world's number one whiskey and jack daniels. And I tell you what, some of the barrel proof stuff coming out of jack daniels right now. It's fantastic. It's some of the best whiskey you can find. And so, you know, I think what they what brown Forman does really, really well, is that 30 to $50 product, they do a great job with that. And I know a lot of people don't are not Woodford fans. But that's a lot of people's favorite bourbon. Oh, yeah. I mean, I've been I've been on airplanes where I've seen ladies yell at someone sitting next to them for pouring coke with Woodford like How dare you pour Coke? bourbon 54:46 airport. A lot of bourbon consumers that aren't whiskey geeks like Woodford is their premium go to you know, it's like I'm always amazed, not amazed because it is great juice. But it's like you forget that that it is like yeah, the common marketplace that sir like premium go to. 55:00 Alright, so one last gripe before we kind of close this out. And that's one thing that I've talked about at the top of the show. And that's the allocations of barrel pics that used to go to bourbon societies and used to go to people, charities, charities, bodies, everybody that was doing them early on. And now it's like that, sorry, you're not selling enough. And this is we're seeing this at four roses. We're seeing this at wild turkey. And so kind of talk about really, what is the effect of, kind of, from a if you're the manufacturer? Or if you're the the end consumer? Like, do you hate the brand more now? Like do you start to look at other places? I mean, because we're good friends with read an emerald from 1789 be, you know, they they said that their allocations are gone from wild turkey and other places like that, where they used to go and just go in and do barrel pics all the time. And now they're looking at other places. They're looking at wilderness trail they're looking at 55:52 Yeah, just it's opened up an opportunity for these like new players in the game to like, kind of like we've gone barrel pics so many places, but like you're not, you're treated more like royalty, when you go to like new roof or wilderness trails, or Willits, or somewhere, whereas the other ones are like, how can we get them in and out of here as fast as possible? It's clockwork to them. Yeah, it's like, we're going to roll out three barrels, and you have 15 minutes to taste each and then we're gonna go through this and this and get out now. So 56:22 Well, I mean, I still enjoy roses experience and stuff like that I still enjoy the experiences. I mean, when you go to wild turkey, you're there with Eddie and and, you know, you know, it's not Eddie making these decisions, right. You know, this this is definitely higher 56:35 up and then I also I also think that Eddie would make those decisions if he had to, you know, that's something we have to always remember that they're kind of protected like that we always want to give like the distillers a break, but they are you know, they have people there kind of around them to protect them and make them continue to look like the good guy, but don't think for a second that they're not in those rooms having conversations and saying like given their input. Yeah, well, we're about to lose our stock, you know, for 2025 if we keep doing these barrel pics, so they're looking out for the long term and healthiness of their brands and that and that's what I'm like a cop when they're around us, 57:11 then that's exactly 57:12 right. I do not be fooled by that. The niceties from the distillers leave me like someone like Bo Backman. It's as direct. Everybody hates that guy because he's the keeper of the barrels. But he's he's going off of what someone else tells him, you know, and he's got the allocation. 57:30 Yeah. And I'm sure if they if they had unlimited barrel supply, they'd love to keep doing it. Right. I mean, I think I think that's one thing that people don't understand. I don't know if they would they probably 57:40 it's like thing is is a inefficient process. And it's a low margin. Feeling personally, 57:43 are you feeling cut off? 57:45 No, I don't think I'm feeling personally cut off. I think it's Oh, let's let's try harder than us. 57:50 It's harder for us to go to So you mentioned 1789 be Let's mention I I'm a part of a charity that got cut off. what's what's another group that you know of that got cut off? I know about two retailers that got cut out of Wild Turkey? Well, yeah, 58:08 there's there's it's all around, right. I mean, it's there's definitely 58:12 we don't cross the board. We don't see a 58:16 you know, a commonality other than that. They're small. This place isn't getting cut off. MGM and Las Vegas isn't getting cut off. And total wine, liquor barn, they're not getting cut off. So it goes back to this this conversation of like, Who's spending the most money? And, you know, I think it's short sighted to cut out 1789 and you know, people like that, that have incredible connections within the bourbon world. 58:46 And we're the one of the pioneers of actually doing some of this 58:49 stuff. I don't I don't think they cut out some of 58:51 these gaps in a lot of money to charities, like a lot of good comes out of these. 58:55 But there's also been some charities that have been debunked. Right, you know, so you got to remember that to to just like we've seen with the counterfeit, they're always fuck wads that are going to take advantage of the the scenario the situation sounds like that. 59:07 Yes, absolutely. So I think we're going to go ahead and wrap that one up. Because you know, we've, we put some people under fire here, we make sure everybody knows that. If you're brand new, listen to this. We still love every single one of you. We still love the product you're putting out 59:20 we went talk about you if we didn't care. Exactly. I'm 59:23 on the show and join us. 59:24 Yeah, we're looking out for you. We want 59:26 what's best for you actually, they're not looking out for you. And not 59:29 well, we're looking at right 59:32 now they got a brand they're trying to knock you down. So their brand goes up. You don't have 59:35 to worry about 59:37 our toy 24 barrels a year, I think is like we don't we're 59:40 not gonna we're not gonna be stepping on any toes anytime soon. That's for sure. 59:44 Well, you know what I would, you know, I'll talk to you about this off the air. I'll bring this up. Sorry. 59:47 It's okay. So, you know, it was like I said, just make sure that you do have a pretty thick skin if you're listening this from brand, because we do We love you. We love having all the personalities and people behind the brands on the show. You know, we do 1:00:00 kind of look at this from, you know, we see what happens in the Facebook groups and Reddit and everything like that when people are writing blog posts of saying like, oh, like we don't like you anymore. So we're just trying to look at this from the consumer perspective. Don't shoot the messenger. Yeah, exactly. So I will. I will say, though, that I've said this for more than a decade. Don't forget the customers who brought you to the dance. That's it. Absolutely. So thank you everybody, for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode we recorded at Hotel distil hotel is still is located in downtown Louisville here on whiskey row. And for those of thirst new experiences, you should come check it out. It's a home for the connoisseurs of the finest comforts and gracious service. It's a space where you're going to pass through historic risk row facade and joy, a true and authentic global destination. You can book your experience for it yourself at Hoteldistil.com and it's set to open here on November 1 of 2019. So fellows, thank you once again for joining us. 1:01:00 show. Yeah, and we'll have e

Craig & Carla welcome back special guest Ben Blacker (Thrilling Adventure Hour, Hex Wives) to discuss the 1961 pocket billiards classic, The Hustler, as well as JTS Brown (the whiskey and the improv team), family competitiveness and the niceties of the hustle.

In der Folge heute geht es um einige Regeln für ein spezielles Langform-Format: JTS Brown. Wichtiger als das „Befolgen der Regeln“ sind aber die Gimmicks und Möglichkeiten für die Improspieler, die das Format den Spielern gibt. Spannend wird es, wenn die..... Der Beitrag Regeln fürs Chaos – JTS Brown erschien zuerst auf Improv Comedy.

In this episode I speak with Joey Shope from Spectacles Improv Engine in Fullerton California. Joey chats about taking multiple improv programmes at the one time in L.A. and demystifies the improv format known as "JTS Brown". https://spectaclesimprov.com

Nick Armstrong, camp director of Camp Improv Utopia, is our guest this episode. He is the Artistic Director at Mi's Westside Comedy Theater. He talks with host Kevin Mullaney about the Groundlings's Sunday Company, teaching JTS Brown, the Pack Theater, playing blindfolded, creating a bible for a new team, camp and theimprovnetwork.org. Subscribe in iTunes For more episodes visit ircpodcast.com Camp Improv Utopia The Improv Network Please consider supporting the IRC podcast at patreon.com/mullaney Kevin Mullaney's Improv Boot Camp in NYC in August 2017 Classes at the Improv Resource Center  

It's Tuesday and…Nate Parsons is our guest! This is part three of our interview with Nate. We have been touching base about once a month to check in on his progress with his experience coaching his first ever JTS Brown team. Nate is a spacecraft software developer and improviser living in San Francisco. He works on the Missions Software team at Planet and performs in the Bay Area at Endgames Improv and All Out Comedy Theater.

It's Tuesday and…Nate Parsons is our guest! This is part two of our interview with Nate. We have been touching base about once a month to check in on his progress with his experience coaching his first ever JTS Brown team. Unfortunately, this episode only captured Nate's audio. However, there is still plenty to hear and it's Nate we want to hear from anyways! Nate is a spacecraft software developer and improviser living in San Francisco. He works on the Missions Software team at Planet and performs in the Bay Area at Endgames Improv and All Out Comedy Theater.

It's Tuesday and.... Nate Parsons is our guest! SoundCloud: http://buff.ly/2oX9KMc iTunes: http://buff.ly/2oXiTVa We decided to do something a little different. Nate is very new to coaching and directing improv and we thought it would be helpful and interesting to document his journey. We have recorded a series of conversations where we discuss a variety of topics and we hope you find it helpful and interesting. This is the first episode and was recorded shortly after Nate began coaching his first ever JTS Brown team. Nate is a spacecraft software developer and improviser living in San Francisco. He works on the Missions Software team at Planet and performs in the Bay Area at Endgames Improv and All Out Comedy Theater.