One Step Forward

For this wrap-up episode we've switched sides of the microphone to interview our host for the last 39 episodes, Ian Quick. (With thanks to Sam Meikle for taking over interviewing duties.) He talks about his formative experiences in the development & conflict management sectors, and why oral history felt like a meaningful contribution at this point in time. We go on to reflect more generally on *why* these stories matter. What do they tell us about who “we” are in public service, and how does this differ from the picture we usually get?  And beyond this, what does this all have to do with big-picture challenges in international cooperation? What does lived experience contribute to change on issues like anti-racism, and structural gaps and blind spots? --- Episode notes: [03:40] Dealing with some rather strange ideas about what he does for a living. [07:05] Early days in western Sydney, Australia. A conviction that mass atrocities and injustices were somehow "un-ignorable". [14:00] Finding entry points into public service when there were few obvious channels. Highs & lows of an early experience at the International Criminal Tribunal for Rwanda. [20:20] Working amidst a downward spiral of mistrust and violence in Sri Lanka. Some harsh early lessons on the limits of international engagement. [23:05] Getting “off the dance floor” to think hard about your share of the work, and not getting stuck in the same mistakes and dysfunctional patterns. [27:40] The paradox of public service. Struggles in the sector around self-identity and self-worth, and whether people can thrive in a structurally dysfunctional setting. [35:30] Moving beyond individual “impact” (and the savior complex). Other ways of thinking about contribution & worth in international public service. [43:10] The dark side of tight-knit professional communities. The perils of an insider-outsider culture. [48:30] Why an oral history series, and why now. Stories that are inherently worth capturing. Finding collective answers to structural problems. [1:00:00] Finding the right stories. Developing a platform gives people space to speak for themselves, and otherwise stays out of the way. [1:07:50] The mechanics of making the thing. Avoiding the usual suspects. A brief diatribe on the professional “talking heads” of the development / human rights sectors. [1:16:50] Searching for a “third space” for conversations about public service. Finding stories that are a truer picture of who “we” are, rather than the usual suspects. [1:21:15] A closing thought, and an invitation to listeners.

"The only ethical way of doing this research is to stay involved in a profound manner, & to maintain these friendships and relationships." Judith Verweijen is a researcher who has spent a decade-plus interviewing soldiers and militias in eastern Democratic Republic of the Congo. We talk through what her process looks like, what men under arms actually do all day, and the complex social ecosystem that arises in protracted conflicts. We also talk a lot about the ethics of this work. Not just because many of these groups are implicated in serious human rights violations, but also because there's a long history of "extractive" research originating in the global North. As always there are no easy answers here -- but this a fascinating conversation with someone who's produced a lot of fascinating, granular research. --- Episode notes: [03:45] Pursuing an early interest in Central Africa. Early fascination with what armed groups do, and what lies behind human rights violations. [11:10] How to dig beneath superficial narratives. Working in remote parts of eastern Congo. [13:00] The complex ethical questions raised by research with belligerents in an active conflict. Understanding what people actually do, and why they do it, in long-running conflicts. [17:15] The interactions between armed groups and everyday social fabric. How militants think about their role, and the ethics of what they do. [26:00] Interactions with policy people, and occasionally intelligence services. Publishing about sensitive topics, and sensitive people. [31:50] Thinking about success and failure as a professional academic. Highlights and lowlights. [34:25] Integrating her research into the regular academic world. Staying constantly connected with eastern DRC. [39:00] Forging human relationships, versus “field work” with “research subjects”. [44:30] Advice to her younger self. Finding the narrative in complex and contested places. Inspiration from the current generation of (largely female) researchers.

Salma Ben Aissa Braham is a Tunisian humanitarian professional, and currently Country Director for the IRC in the Central African Republic. She spent half of her career (so far!) in her home country, and was entering her prime working years around the time of the 2011 revolution. We talk about that, naturally. We go on to discuss how she's approached her work in large-scale, seemingly intractable crises in C.A.R. and Yemen. Another major theme is the complicated relationship between the global South and the global North within the humanitarian profession. We talk at length about peoples' expectations and biases, and what Salma expects of herself as an Arab, woman professional. --- Show notes: [02:20] Explaining the humanitarian profession to friends and family (despite the stereotypes). Early experiences with international organisations in Tunis. [07:45] Her experience of the 2011 revolution. A change in perspective in the first few months after the flight of Ben Ali. [13:45] Working on democracy promotion in the region. A close-up encounter with extremism that pointed her in a new direction. [17:50] Experiences Yemen in 2013, versus those in 2019. Working as an Arab woman in the region. [22:35] Challenges, successes and lessons from working in the Central African Republic. Believing in local partners and local people. [29:35] Diversity in management roles in international humanitarian organisations. Encountering some pretty ridiculous stereotypes. [34:10] How to take “localisation” of humanitarian responses seriously. [40:10] Plans after international humanitarian work. Her ambitions for Tunisia.

Josep is a career humanitarian who's spent 20+ years with UNHCR working with refugees, and on forced displacement. But alongside there's something a bit unusual. That twigged for me personally when we met a few years back in Central Asia -- and he started speaking in Tajik to a local community, despite never having worked in the region. It turned out that alongside a half-dozen European languages he's also invested in Persian and Arabic, and that's kind of the key to this one. What does it take to listen respectfully, and understand, in contexts where you're necessarily an outsider? What does good judgment and decision-making look like in contexts that are often cartoonishly fast-paced? At bottom this is a conversation about professional honesty, and doing the best job you can manage, in complex environments. --- Episode notes: [02:20] Explaining the humanitarian profession to friends and family. Maintaining ties to home over 20+ years. [06:30] Pivoting from a degree in philosophy to international refugee work. Fast thinking, slow thinking, and the appeal of a job requiring high levels of judgment. [12:50] Experiences with rushed and ill-conceived approaches in the humanitarian sector. The temptation to think places are simpler, or simply different, than how they really are. [21:45] Going where the work is, and avoiding capital cities. Learning to be an extravert for practical reasons, and then learning to enjoy it. [25:55] Making the time for professional honesty, and thinking about success and failure. Reconciling careful decision-making with the everyday pressures of the humanitarian sector. [32:30] What keeps the work fresh after 20+ years. A formative experience with indigenous groups in Colombia. [38:10] The trade-offs of working in a large bureaucracy. Fitting a careful and individualistic style into a process-heavy and often trend-driven environment. [44:20] Overall learning from a long career. Sticking to basic principles as trends come and go. [54:05] The trade-offs of working in a large bureaucracy. Fitting a careful and individualistic style into a process-heavy and often trend-driven environment.

Kathryn Nwajiaku-Dahou is Director of the Politics and Governance Programme at the Overseas Development Institute. Past work has included academic posts, several development NGOs, and the OECD's Development Assistance Committee. With this in mind, it's interesting that the recurring theme of this conversation is a rather ambivalent relationship with the aid sector.  She's worked with some of the marquee names in the sector, but specifically in roles that are critical or reformist in nature. Equally in talking about her work she is conscious of  the seriousness and the stakes of the overall development agenda -- but also of the very real limitations on "development" as a business. In sum this is a conversation about striking that balance -- about finding a niche that is professionally honest, and moves things forward. --- Show notes: [02:40] Early days in the development sector in east and west Africa. Keeping one eye open as someone who development could be “done”. [11:00] Lessons from working around the Rwandan genocide. Recognising the asymmetrical and sometimes gung-ho nature of the aid sector. [16:55] Developing a baseline picture of reality as a reality check on the aid discourse. Advantages and disadvantages of academic work for the critical-minded. [20:40] A difficult transition to the world of development policy. Perversities in recruitment. The promise of the New Deal for Fragile States, versus the realities of aid politics. [31:40] The appeal of a management role in development policy, despite the challenges. Stepping up for what is missing in the sector. [39:25] The UK’s drastic aid cuts. The proper place of aid in the broader development agenda -- and what is most exciting right now.

Polly Mackenzie is CEO at Demos, a cross-party think tank in the United Kingdom. She's also worked at the centre of government within the 2010-15 coalition, and run a charity focusing on money and mental health. In the current fractious political environment Demos looks at big challenges like wealth inequality, "building back" after covid-19, and social protection for the most marginalised. We talk a lot about how to "do" public policy in a complex democracy -- in particular how to bring more human experience, more everyday behaviour, into the process. But we also go deep on what that means for the people who work in public service. What mindset should we start with? How do we set our ambitions, and sense of self-worth, when we can't possibly control the outcomes? --- Episode notes: [02:25] Talking about public policy at the school gate, or with family. What opens the door to a good conversation, and what closes it. [11:00] Early motivations to work in government, possibly due to too many West Wing episodes. A key role in the UK’s coalition government from 2010-15. [15:20] Dealing with a “crushing” electoral defeat, and finding a new path outside of government. How and why she got started in the third sector. [24:00] The tough reality of working in politics vs the “seductive” idea of being a change-maker. The severe emotional toll of electoral defeat. [28:55] Adjusting her criteria for self-worth. Letting go of the “narcissism” of imagining huge changes in the world, and finding ways to make a dent. [35:00] The role of think tanks in a modern democracy. The imperative of understanding the lived experience of citizens. The tendency of policy wonks to mis-categorise questions as technical rather than emotive and political. [42:10] What success looks like, seen from a think tank. How we can better grapple with the biggest challenges, like social welfare reform, by legitimising experience and humanity in public policy. [47:00] Advice to her younger self as a policy analyst. Finding a “third way” between populism and policy elitism.

Dao X. Tran is Managing Editor of Voice of Witness, which develops oral histories and education programs to amplify the voices of people impacted by injustice. Recent projects have included the aftermath of Hurricane Maria, indigenous Americans, and settlement of refugees in Appalachia. (You can find all their projects at voiceofwitness.org .) We start with her early years in Philadelphia, as a child refugee in a working class neighbourhood split by serious divides, and a path into social justice activism. We then get into the ethics and practice of oral history with marginalised communities. How to select stories that matter; how to centre narrators themselves rather than one’s own agenda; and how to bring this to a wider audience. --- Show notes: [05:45] Growing up in a refugee and working class neighbourhood in Philadelphia. Not seeing those kinds of narratives reflected in education and popular culture. [11:00] Identifying areas where oral history projects can add value. Taking strategic decisions about what a US-based organisation can best contribute. [19:15] The process of doing oral history. Finding interlocutors, building their narratives, keeping yourself out of the way. [26:40] Avoiding an overall “story”, and a sense of closure that wouldn’t be true to reality. [30:10] Where oral history fits into formal education. Building spaces for new points of view. [34:00] Links between oral history of marginalised groups, and social justice activism. What changes because of all this. Doing all this during the covid-19 pandemic, and at the peak of the #blacklivesmatter movement. [45:35] Finding “urgent” stories and not trying to do everything. Work with Native American communities. [52:10] Critical tasks. Respecting and supporting narrators rather than introducing one’s own ideas. Respecting their particular voice. A few key influences in this regard.

Kumekucha is a program to help people process conflict and trauma, and to craft new narratives for themselves. It’s running at the community level in coastal Kenya and Nairobi, for people affected by police brutality, by gang violence, and a whole range of adverse personal circumstances. (I strongly recommend checking out the Green String Network’s channel on Youtube for some of their short participant videos, which speak much more eloquently than I can.) In this episode we hear from two of the people involved. Onyango is an accomplished poet and story-teller, as you’ll hear very quickly, and has been very open about trauma in his own life. Kaltuma is a program manager who is wrapping her head around some very hard questions of design and delivery, and building on a family legacy. --- Show notes: (Onyango Otieno) [02:45] The importance of story-telling around painful experiences. Overcoming his own difficult past. [07:00] The Kumekucha model for helping people to process trauma and develop a new narrative. Tools & tactics for facilitating this kind of difficult conversation. [12:00] How change at the individual level relates to entrenched problems at the community or institutional level. [14:10] Experimenting with a Whatsapp platform as an enabling space for necessary conversations, including about mental health. [17:40] Managing his own wellbeing when facilitating this kind of draining conversation. Ethical challenges dealing with institutions like the national police. [24:20] The need for a paradigm shift in Kenya around mental health. Key influences and inspirations when growing up. (Kaltuma Noorow) [29:35] Trauma within different communities in Kenya. Crime, abuse of authority, domestic abuse, and violent extremism. [33:30] The community-based trauma healing model. Mobilising resourceful people. Finding helpful ways to facilitate this kind of tough conversation. [36:55] Some experiences with how people changed and moved past trauma. And some where people didn’t succeed and slipped backwards. [42:00] Dealing with the fact that most participants live in very difficult circumstances. Setting the right expectations, and finding agency where it’s possible. [45:55] Feeling like an outsider as a Somali-Kenyan. When it’s useful to be conscious of difference as well as connection. [48:45] Managing the tensions & risks of holding a space for people on extraordinarily sensitive subjects. [52:05] Building on her mother’s legacy of conflict resolution in northern Kenya. Dealing with conflict in her own life before (and while) trying to help others.

Kate Moger is Regional Vice-President for the Great Lakes region at the International Rescue Committee. She's based in Nairobi, although currently that’s in flux due to COVID-19. We start with her rather interesting route into the sector by way of a dubious Russian travel agency, some traumatic early experiences, and how and where this turned around into a fulfilling career. We then go deep on professionalisation and ethics in the humanitarian sector, and what this means for managing people in the present day. This includes her own experiences caring for a young child, and where the sector still needs to grow away from its macho roots. Show notes: [02:45] Avoiding conversations about her work. Why it’s hard when things tend to get ‘quite deep, quite fast’. [06:25] A trajectory that runs through the UK, South Sudan, DR Congo, Cote d’Ivoire, Mali, and Kenya. But starting off at a questionable Russian travel start-up in a living room. [11:45] Working for deaf-blind people and children at risk in the UK. Studying at the same time to help do justice to the seriousness of the work. [15:10] Landing in South Sudan not terribly well prepared. Several hard learning moments, and returning to the UK in a fragile condition. [22:50] A very different experience in the DR Congo. Changing her attitude to people, and to learning. How the humanitarian system approaches those critical first few early-career jobs. [29:40] The appeal of working in politically tough and insecure environments. The importance of solidarity, and looking for situations where there’s a very clear case for outside help. [37:55] Worrying about taking up space that would be better filled by others. Necessary structural changes in the humanitarian sector, including difficult conversations about power. [47:00] Lessons learned over a long career. People being emotionally ready to change the way the humanitarian sector operates. [50:30] How the sector treats its people. Experiences as a mother.

(Bonus coronavirus lockdown episode) Ahmed Famau Ahmed is one of the facilitators that works with the “Healing the Uniform” initiative that we discussed in episode #031. But he’s not a career professional. Instead he came into this because of his own history of being arrested, interrogated, and mistreated by the police. In this conversation he talks about his experiences growing up in coastal Kenya, police profiling on the basis of his dialect and appearance, and introducing that perspective to a training room.

Gitahi Kanyeki is a 36-year veteran of the Kenya National Police Service. His career spans operations against cattle rustlers in Turkana, to extraordinary violence in Nairobi after the 2008 elections, to internal action against serious misconduct. That history has entailed more than anyone’s fair share of traumatic experiences, both for him and for his family. In this episode we talk about what that was like to live and work through — and beyond that what can be done, and is being done, for trauma recovery within an institution like the NPS. Our first half is with Gitahi himself, and in the second half we switch perspective to Bonface Beti. He's a program manager with the Green String Network, and he talks very eloquently about design and delivery. He also speaks to the challenges of supporting an institution that is often maligned, within Kenya, and often with good cause. (Our previous episode, 030, was on this very topic.) Taken as a whole this is a reflection on the personal costs and the rewards of service within an institution that is indisputably necessary, while also indisputably flawed.

Wangui Kimari is an urban anthropologist, currently affiliated with the African Centre for Cities. She’s done a range of interesting things but this conversation focuses on work in her home town of Nairobi—and in particular the Mathare area, which if you know the city is often labelled as a slum or sort of den of iniquity. The recurring theme is the attempt to do things differently in the face of a stifling, or broken, status quo. What does public authority and urban planning when seen from the point of view of marginalised communities? What questions do those communities themselves want answered, as opposed to those that researchers want to focus on? And once you have some answers, how do they fit into a political conversation that’s been built on the rhetoric of “development” for several generations now? This is a timely episode — not because it is “about” COVID-19, but to equip us to think about distancing & public hygiene as seen from marginalised spaces. What should experiences in the past tell us about how things will play out in the near future?

Donata Garrasi has worked on conflict dynamics for twenty-five years, in a career spanning operational, policy and consulting roles. She presently works as Director of Political Affairs for the UN Special Envoy for the Great Lakes. In one sense this might sound like a straightforward story. But walking through the steps, it really wasn’t. It was a series of self-starting, purposeful and often risky moves to find ways to make a contribution. What drives and sustains that kind of motivation? What happens when it’s frustrated by events on the ground that you can’t control? How does it balance with other aspirations in life? As always, all views are personal and don't reflect anyone's official position. --- Show notes: [00:00] Describing peace and conflict work to the general public. Unexpected sticking points. [05:10] Growing up in Italy with an interest in politics. First steps abroad, from an internship in New York to refugee response in the remotest part of Guinea-Conakry. [12:00] Key learning from early experiences around Liberia, Sierra Leone and Western Sahara. Looking behind humanitarian crises to the political decisions that create them. [17:35] Strong early role models that understood the why & the how of influencing key decisions. Learning about conflict dynamics at the end of the ‘90s in West Africa. [22:35] The rationale for moving between different countries. What it means to be a specialist in unpacking and addressing conflict dynamics. [27:25] A stint in the policy world with the OECD, at the juncture of aid and politics. Trying to help the sector as a whole learn some much-needed lessons. [36:05] The International Dialogue on Peacebuilding and Statebuilding. Motivation and meaning when working on complex and highly political inter-governmental processes. [40:30] The opportunities and limitations of consulting work. Freedom versus the frustrations of being peripheral to decision-making. [44:40] Fitting all the pieces together. Playing big when it comes to highly political jobs, and the highly contentious politics of peace & security. [51:40] Sustaining motivation when things just aren’t going the right way. When it’s more ethical to move onwards than to stay in place and keep trying. [59:45] Reflections on a long (and still-evolving) career. Experiences as a woman in the sector.

Babatunde Afolabi has worked on mediation and conflict transformation in West Africa for pretty much all of his adult life—first at the Economic Community of West African States (ECOWAS), and then with the Center for Humanitarian Dialogue. This experience spans the full range of political conflict: “democratic reversals” and refusals to leave power, military coups, contested elections, the rise of extremist movements, and entrenched sub-national violence. With this as background we get into the nuts and bolts of inter-governmental diplomacy, “private” diplomacy, and the differences between the two. This is informed in part by ’Tunde’s own upbringing under a military regime in Nigeria, and the return to democratic rule in 1999. As always, all views are personal and don't reflect anyone's official position. --- Show notes: [04:30] Education in Ibadan, in south-west Nigeria. Finding his way due to the right mentor figures at the right time. 10:20] Growing up under a military regime, and becoming politically conscious. Early resolve not to work on conflict in Nigeria, and a fascination with Liberia’s history and culture. [17:45] Work with ECOWAS on conflict prevention, and the mid-2000s as the high water mark for the institution. Some unconventional but effective approaches in Niger and Guinea. [27:00] Loss of momentum for ECOWAS conflict prevention as the regional political environment evolved. Deciding to move on to work for West Africa through other means. [31:15] Pursuing a PhD as an ‘experiment to self-criticise’. Switching focus from Track 1 diplomacy to the role of civil society actors. [34:40] A second stint at ECOWAS. Knowing when to move on because the conditions aren’t right. Hopes and regrets about the potential of the institution. [41:30] Moving to the Centre for Humanitarian Dialogue. How “private diplomacy” fits into international conflict resolution, and its distinct niche in West Africa. Efforts in the Gambia, and back in Nigeria (despite early intentions!). [51:10] Getting ‘access’ as a mediator, and what brings real value to an entrenched conflict. Key skills and relationships developed over a career in the sub-region. [57:10] Moving from West Africa to a broader remit. Staying humble and curious, and avoiding ‘experts’. Staying focused on the African continent, and ambitions for the future. [1:04:00] Key points of learning over a rich career in conflict resolution. A few book recommendations to close.

Johnny is a photographer and activist who's based in South Africa. (You can find much of his work at millefoto.com.) He’s best-known for his drone photo series Unequal Scenes. These images are striking and almost violent: shanty towns abutting stately suburban homes; a slum wedged in beside a gleaming financial district. In this interview we talk about his broader ambitions to shift the narrative around stark economic inequalities, both in his adopted home of South Africa and further afield. We get into the artistic process of finding and developing images; the personal costs and difficulties that come with provoking debate; and the power of a different way of seeing to give new perspectives on a very old problem. --- Show notes: [04:20] The need for a new narrative around inequality. Difficulties of communicating complex socio-political issues, and learning from the climate action movement. [07:50] The original “lightbulb moment” where drone photography enabled something very familiar to be seen in a completely new way. [11:30] The “accidental epiphany” of the very first Unequal Scenes photo, of Masiphumelele in Cape Town. Surprising and almost immediate reactions from all segments of South African society. [19:20] The process of researching and selecting images. His trademark “violent” style of urban photograph. Scenes that are sticky and resonate with the wider public, versus ones that are equally important but perhaps too subtle. [29:20] Getting pushback from experts and activists. The ethics of provoking conversation on divisive social/political issues. [40:00] Some more ground-level work, including with Syrian refugees and in slums around the world. Differences between the “top-down” perspective and looking people in the eyes and building trust. [46:40] The difference between highlighting structural problems and telling stories. The power of keeping the project tightly focused (despite criticism!). [52:55] Drone technology as a democratic enabler. The AfricanDRONE network to support communities to tell their own stories, and disrupt industries that need disrupting. [1:01:15] The place of Unequal Scenes within the political landscape of South Africa. What kind of impact he wants to have as an artist working on inequality and linked political issues.

Preeti Thapa has led community justice and conflict transformation programs in her native Nepal for about sixteen years, working with the Asia Foundation. That experience spans an extraordinarily turbulent period -- the tail end of the Maoist insurgency, a drawn-out and highly contentious transition to multi-party politics, a transformative new constitution, and the 2014-15 earthquake. As a consequence we get into many of the central dilemmas of conflict transformation work. Structural and community-level issues versus the national political drama that captures the international imagination. Informal versus formal mechanisms in meeting aspirations for justice. Progressive social agendas versus working “with the grain”. And not least of all — the experience of women, and women from the global South specifically, in fields that are all too often male-dominated and hierarchical. --- Show notes: [02:50] Community mediation as a process for conflict transformation at the community level. [06:55] The “co-facilitation” model which strives for a mediation panel that reflects the composition of the community and the disputants, rather than the usual suspects. [11:55] Dealing with biases and structural injustices. Personal, relational and cultural changes linked to the rise of community mediation in Nepal. [18:15] The risks and opportunities of rolling out community mediation during an active conflict, and during times of extraordinarily rapid political change. [26:20] Setting ambitions for conflict transformation efforts in a context with major structural and policy challenges. [31:50] Early career experiences in the legal system. Frustrations with the justice system as a route to meaningful social change, and as a difficult environment for a woman. [40:40] Reflections after sixteen years of this work. Contributions to social change outside of the legal profession, versus those what were possible inside it. [49:00] Key partnerships and influences outside Nepal. Dealing with old-fashioned views on peacebuilding, and on who gets to contribute to that debate.

Marc is a journalist who has developed a number of graphic novels with people in extraordinarily tough situations. These include kids affected by conflict in the Central African Republic; returned combatants of the Lord’s Resistance Army in northern Uganda; and people targeted for witchcraft in Nigeria. (You can find his work at http://www.marcellison.com/) We talk about the process of responsibly developing these stories; the importance of developing new approaches on these very complex issues; and the difficulty of finding a market in the traditional media landscape. The common thread throughout is the empathy gap — the difficulty that people have in recognising part of themselves in the toughest times, and the hardest places. --- Show notes: [02:45] Writing graphic novels about serious topics. An overview of his work to date, and a story about visiting an artisanal diamond mine in the Central African Republic. [08:50] Influences including Art Spigelman and Joe Sacco. Combining a technical background in IT, a mid-career switch to journalism, and an interest in under-reported issues. [11:05] What this all looks like from the perspective of the people featured in the work. Giving a better and richer story, without necessarily aiming for the definitive “truth”. [15:55] Working with local artists in the Central African Republic, Uganda, Nigeria, and Tanzania. Putting those who are part of the story “front of stage”, and keeping himself in the background. [22:25] Getting the first project off the ground. Pitching a graphic novel about child soldiers to sceptical editors, and spending two years looking for grant funding. [26:05] Choosing issues that are under-reported and deserve more attention. Ambitions to engage new audience, both locally and internationally, through immersive techniques and formats that can bridge the empathy gap. [36:05] The process of pitching and developing these projects, when reliant on grant funding. Some experiments with mixed print and online content. [40:45] Learning over the course of a half-dozen projects. Storyboarding the work and organising the process, and collaborating over long distances with poor infrastructure. [44:10] The risks and difficulties of dealing with vulnerable people. Protecting the protagonists of these stories. [46:20] Hopes and ambitions going forward. The difficulty of finding a market for this work, and balancing it with everyday work as a journalist.

Wale is acting senior director for the governance technical unit within the International Rescue Committee. He works to protect the rights of people affected by crises to influence the political issues that matter to them. (Background link for more on this: https://www.rescue-uk.org/outcome/power.) We talk about getting people to think intelligently about the political context for humanitarian response, how the sector is evolving over time, and a few sacred cows that need to be left behind. We also go in depth on his experience, both good and bad, as a Nigerian working for international organisations in the global North. Show notes: [02:45] Wale’s work with the IRC, and how governance issues fit into in humanitarian/emergency response. [05:10] Growing up in Nigeria in Ibadan and Kaduna. The “bubble” of federal government college, the culture shock of leaving it, and the politics of service delivery. [14:40] What motivated the decision to pursue higher studies. Family expectations, a pivotal visit to a refugee camp, and an early role model. [19:50] Motivations for working towards a PhD in the aid world. [21:30] The unhelpful separation between “humanitarian” and “development” initiatives. Working according to the space and opportunities that are available. [25:45] The fears and legitimate concerns that are linked with changes in the roles and responsibilities of humanitarian agencies. How to manage these tensions at a day-to-day level. [33:00] Experiences working in his own country of Nigeria. Thoughts on the Boko Haram crisis. How this feels compared to working elsewhere in the world. [36:30] Being African, and being seen as African, in the aid sector. Encountering the “colonial hangover” when visiting country operations. Being entrusted with different perspectives. [42:15] Switching “codes” and communicating with people in an effective way. The critical importance of diversity in the aid sector, for better outcomes and on principle. [50:10] Key points of learning over twenty years in the aid sector.The Nelson Mandela quote that sits on the wall. [56:00] Exit strategy from the aid sector. Keeping the family connected with their heritage, and taking things back to the local level in retirement.

David is the Africa editor for the Financial Times. In January 2019 his team broke a story on massive fraud in presidential and parliamentary elections in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. The reporting was impressive for its depth, based on the systematic review of leaked electoral data. It was also striking because it was so unusual, following years of superficial and crisis-driven engagement with the DRC by the international press. With that in mind, this episode is about when and how the international press engages with highly marginalised places. We get into how international editors determine what’s newsworthy; the extent to which foreign media can or should act as a “fourth estate” in dysfunctional polities; and the process of getting an explosive story like this one verified and published. Show notes: [00:00] How to set editorial priorities when you’re looking at most of a continent, with limited column space and a small team. [06:35] Looking for stories with wider resonance, alongside those that are important in their own right. Why cases like Rwanda and Sudan tend to get much more attention in the international press. [16:25] Breaking the story of electoral fraud in long-delayed elections in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. The practicalities of verifying and reporting a politically explosive story. [29:00] The role of the press during events like these. Avoiding “delusions of grandeur”, sticking to your job as a journalist, and moving onto the next story. [35:00] How the press can stay engaged with slow-burn stories, rather than reacting only to dramatic events. Staying engaged with the political drama in the DRC. [39:25] Reacting to the start of the Sudanese revolution in late 2018. The challenges of sustaining coverage and momentum over an eight month period, and how this became a major priority for the paper. [47:00] Lessons from working as the Africa editor for 3.5 years. Specifically for covering the continent, and generally for working as a journalist. [50:00] Subverting the “Lunch with the FT” formula to meet Bobi Wine in a Kampala slum. Continuing to find interesting twists on the story after twenty years with the paper.

Gemma pivoted away from a career in programme management and human rights advocacy to undertake a PhD in how we think about stress and meaning in the aid sector. That done, she is now an independent consultant and facilitator on how aid agencies can become more healthy, inclusive and caring work spaces (blog: http://gemmahouldey.com/). With this in hand, we have a conversation that touches on some of the most critical and under-discussed issues in the sector. Show notes: [02:20] Personal experiences in the aid sector and with stress and burnout. How aid workers think privately about what they do, versus public perceptions and the stories we tell. [08:25] The stereotype of the ‘perfect humanitarian’, versus the realities of who is actually doing most of the work. The blind spots that this image creates. Recognising the mix of motivations and circumstances that people bring to the job. [16:20] Cultural and situational differences in how we think about stress and burnout. The risk of designing policies around a small minority of aid workers coming from the global north. [21:50] Re-thinking stress and mental health in the aid sector. The limitations of a technical /output-driven management style in a sector that is ostensibly about values and solidarity. Setting ambitions for staff to thrive in a fuller sense. [35:00] Cultural and organisational changes to engage with stressors and long-term motivations of aid workers. Ensuring that we properly address the majority of the workforce who are working in their own countries. [40:40] Some possible role models and sources of inspiration to make these kinds of changes. [43:45] The experience of researching one’s own colleagues. What changed when encountering the same peer group with a very different role. [48:50] Next steps to help improve well-being in the aid sector. Building a network of people to start doing things differently.

Kathryn managed monitoring & evaluation for cross-border “stabilisation" programmes in Syria over the last five years (working with the development consultancy Integrity). These initiatives aimed to support functioning services and local governance in opposition-held areas, and to check the influence of extremist groups, in parallel with diplomatic processes. The goal of her own work was thus to track how these approaches were working out in an extraordinarily complex and violent operating environment, and suggest the necessary adjustments to do better. For more information on Integrity's work: https://www.integrityglobal.com/ Episode notes: [03:10] A career path through the US Army, some of the unique difficulties of aid in Syria, and how Kathryn explains her job to her grandmother [07:15] What cross-border “stabilisation” programmes looked like in Syria, and how they have adapted to changing circumstances. [17:00] What success looks like in a massive regional crisis. “Stabilisation” of peoples’ everyday lives, and not losing generations. Relationship with the macro-politics in Geneva and elsewhere. [23:25] The legacy and lasting effects of cross-border aid in Syria, as the government continues to re-establishes control over opposition areas. Differences between the north-east, north-west, and other parts of the country. [31:40] Finding motivation and meaning in the work when the macro-level trends are so bad. Major personal takeaways from 4.5 years in Syria. [41:40] Possible lessons of the experience in Syria for other crises in the future. A plea for more context-informed and flexible approaches. [46:00] Comparing the outcomes of work on Syria with expectations going in. Positive takeaways alongside the difficulties. [51:20] Adjusting to life back in the U.S., and finding space for personal and civic engagement. Being “good and mad”.

Rabih Omar is a proud citizen of Tripoli, Lebanon’s second city, and has worked there on humanitarian and peacebuilding challenges for his whole career. We talk in depth about his experience working for different international organisations that have come to his city, what foreign “experts” tend to get wrong, and how he keeps his motivation up despite near-constant political destabilisation. Episode notes: [04:45] What it was like growing up in Tripoli, through the end of the Lebanese civil war [10:30] How Rabih moved on from early traumas, and ended up working in the field of conflict resolution & local development [16:45] What social cohesion and local development looks like in Tripoli, against a backdrop of inter-communal and inter-sectarian violence [26:15] Experiences with international organisations misusing “national staff”, and getting some of the basics wrong [35:55] What people coming into Tripoli tended to get wrong about local politics, Alawite-Shia tensions, and other issues [48:05] Rabih’s proudest moment over his career, after the mosque bombings in 2013 [59:30] Planning for the long run, despite chronic instability re: Syria, Israel, and national politics

Roshan is co-founder of the Amani Institute, which supports talent development for the social sector. Over the last seven years it has graduated some 450 students from its hubs in Nairobi, Bangalore, and Sao Paolo. We talk about the merits of coming from an emerging market perspective when talking about social innovation, the gaps that Amani sees in the education market, and Roshan's own journey with a startup. Episode notes: [2:10] Why the co-founders felt there was a gap in the education market for the social sector. [08:00] Why it’s more interesting and probably more productive to be located in emerging markets, for those interested in social innovation. [13:30] The Amani Institute’s philosophy and curriculum for developing change-makers, including what kind of profile it attracts [21:10] Why it was worth the risks to start up a new offering, and a new way of contributing to social entrepreneurship [27:10] How Roshan’s own experiences with international education played into the design [39:30] What scale looks like: A world where everyone can both make a living and make an impact. [47:40] Experience working with social innovation in large organisations, and with private sector organisations [55:00] The biggest challenges so far, including self-training to manage a growing organisation and an early security scare

A short one to share some reflections on the first year of the podcast, and talk about where we're going next. (Including a name change!) We've had a wide range of people on so far -- human rights defenders, community organisers, clinicians, aid workers, and more. I share some of the moments that have really stuck with me, and talk about what I think unifies this disparate group of people.

Nick van Praag founded and runs an organisation called Ground Truth Solutions. They work with people affected by crises to get their feedback and perspectives on emergency response. In practice this means door-to-door surveys, over time, of how people feel about the timeliness, quality and fairness of humanitarian service provision. This is shared with service providers and funding agencies to benchmark what they’re doing, and encourage greater responsiveness. What is particularly intriguing is that Nick started Ground Truth in 2012 after a long career in the World Bank and other multilateral institutions. So this amounted to a pretty significant career pivot! Show notes: [02:10] Working with communities to provide structured feedback to humanitarian organisations on how they’re doing. The topics that are covered, and the process for collecting and reporting findings. [09:20] Attitudes amongst humanitarian agencies. Building demand for, and genuine engagement with, this kind of feedback. [18:20] Experiences as an executive at UNHCR and the World Bank. Recognising that there were changes that needed to happen, and taking the leap to establish a start-up that would foreground “a perspective that couldn’t be argued with”. [23:35] Learning over six years of Ground Truth Solutions. Links with wider “moments” in humanitarian reform and changing wider norms and expectations about the role and voice of service recipients. [32:10] Ethical challenges around commissioned “participation”. Designing the work to ensure that is respectful of service recipients and adds value for them, as well as for commissioning organisations. [36:25] How to integrate community feedback into management and decision-making. Learning on what makes feedback “actionable”. [41:55] Grappling with the extreme fragmentation and decentralisation of the humanitarian sector. Organisation-level vs system-level perspectives. [45:40] Key takeaways from a long career. The relative merits of large organisations vs a purpose-driven start-up. Sources of inspiration and courage to make big decisions.

Hani al Rstum is a Syrian living in Lebanon’s second city of Tripoli, and the conductor for the SADA playback theatre troupe. They engage with communities affected by serious conflict, with the goal of recognising and affirming life experiences, and opening dialogue. Playback draws on psychodrama therapy, and Hani himself is a psychotherapist. He “conducts” events to create a safe space for people to share experiences, and to begin to connect and empathise. The troupe is based in a social innovation hub on the frontline of one of Lebanon’s most notorious neighbourhood conflicts. It has also performed on-site in buildings with special connections to the war. Show notes: [02:10] Leaving Syria to study medicine. Watching as the revolution started and the war began to impact his his family. [06:15] Cross-border activism as the war deepened. Filming and work with international media. Early work with children suffering from traumatic stress disorders. [12:45] How playback theatre works, and Hani’s role as “conductor”. Holding the space for dialogue in heated and painful environments. [22:50] Beginnings of playback theatre in Lebanon, and first applications to inter-neighbourhood conflict in Tripoli. Using physical spaces with specific histories in fighting and symbolic meaning. [31:05] How it works when emotions are running very high. Having the right expectations for the community, and recognising leadership when it emerges in the moment. [38:50] Positive and negative experiences as a Syrian in Lebanon. Implications for his ability to play a peacebuilding role. [43:40] What drove Hani to lead this initiative. Working with communities as a survival mechanism amidst the loss and tragedy of the Syrian war. Doubts and fears going forward.

Tripoli, Lebanon’s second city, has experienced considerable violence ever since the end of the national civil war in 1990. But this escalated dramatically with the onset of the Syrian civil war. Pitched neighbourhood-level fighting led up to the shock car-bombing of the al-Taqwa and al-Salam mosques in 2013. The central government responded with an army-imposed security plan which tamped down violence, but there’s been little progress since on the underlying conflict dynamics. Stepping into this gap, Bilal co-founded a series of community dialogues that ended up as the Roadmap for Reconciliation in Tripoli. The idea was a sort of open-source diagnostic that could be the basis for citizen action. Show notes: [02:40] Growing up in and around Tripoli. Encountering cynical reactions to work on community mobilisation and social stability, despite very real and very pressing problems. [09:15] The trajectory of conflict in north Lebanon. Roots in the colonial period, through to polarisation today around the Syrian civil war. How a city like Tripoli can get “left behind” for decades on end. [21:30] The peak of violence in 2013-14, and the securitised approach that followed. Developing a bottom-up community reconciliation initiative to fill the gap, and how this contrasted with Bilal’s past work with international organisations. [31:45] Drivers of conflict at a neighbourhood-to-neighbourhood level in Tripoli. What “peacebuilding” has historically gotten wrong in this context. Managing the necessary links to elite politics. [43:30] Setting realistic expectations for reconciliation efforts in Tripoli. Coping with an extraordinarily tough regional environment, destabilising effects of the Syrian war, and often-unhealth national politics. [51:15] Where to go from here, and returning to “normal” work after spearheading a unique initiative for several years. Sources of advice and inspiration.

Christine Williamson runs a consultancy firm called Duty of Care International, and has spent twenty years in human resources management in the aid world. It’s well-known that this is a very difficult area. The sector puts large numbers of people into tough operating environments, with a tiny fraction of the support that’s available for diplomatic or military personnel. It’s built on short-term funding contracts which interfere with efforts to professionalise and plan the workforce. Perhaps most difficult of all, there are a range of equity and oversight issues that come with shipping expatriate staff into places with weak regulatory systems. Show notes: [2:20]  Christine's early days in the aid sector, and latter days starting her own company. The common thread of working for justice and fairness in human resources management. [09:30]  Key challenges for human resources management in the aid sector. Distinctions between expatriate and “national” staff, and the bad practices that tend to follow. [13:00]  Professional development in the aid sector (or lack thereof). The need to think at a system level about the labour market, rather than organisations blindly competing with each other. [20:20]  The current trend for tighter “safeguarding” to prevent abuses, in the wake of the Oxfam Haiti scandal. The role of proactive HR management and the true costs of cutting corners. [30:35]  Developing a healthier overall work environment for people in the aid sector. Individual and organisational responsibilities to sustain mental health. [39:40]  Whether a lifelong career in the aid sector is sustainable, or even a good idea. What individuals and organisations can do to improve both longevity, and the quality of the experience at any given time. [48:30]  Takeaways from a few decades in the aid sector and elsewhere. Embracing the “wacky” ideas.

Jean-Paul is part of the generation that was fundamentally shaped by the Lebanese civil war, but had no responsibility for it. In his words, when he left the country in 2006 after the brief and calamitous war with Israel, he never wanted to come back. While abroad, however, he found a sense of agency and possibility. He did come back, and founded an organisation called Peace Labs, which aims to facilitate the difficult conversations that need to happen if the country is to move forward. Show notes: [02:30] Growing up during the civil war, the origins of Peace Labs, and their current activities across Lebanon. Being mistaken for a priest. [12:00] Frustrations around the stagnation of Lebanese politics, and the 2006 war with Israel. Leaving with the intent to “never come back”, but finding a new perspective. [19:30] First steps in the peacebuilding sphere after coming back to Lebanon. Work with youth, and the commonalities that recur time and again in violent conflicts. [32:55] Why there was a need for a new kind of model in Lebanon. Gaps in the conventional peacebuilding approaches supported by the UN and big INGOs. [42:00] Being a “purist” rather than taking all the work that’s available. The need for an experimental attitude in dealing with a new and little-understood field like peacebuilding. [49:10] Why success stories, or moments that can inspire people, are particularly important in this field. Some pivotal moments in Jean-Paul’s own journey. [55:35] The critical importance of working on your own self, and how you relate to the world, before trying to change too much externally. Finding a “tribe” of like-minded people to help you navigate conflictual and disturbing topics. [59:00] Some book recommendations. Galtung, personal strengths, and a touch of science fiction.

Assaad is best-known in Lebanon for an open letter in 2000, in which he apologised for what he’d done with the Lebanese Forces, a prominent Christian militia responsible for its share of atrocities. This has been followed by nearly twenty years of philanthropic work. Much of it has been in partnership with other former combatants, through the organisation Fighters for Peace. He has also been involved with a range of initiatives seeking to unblock social dialogue more broadly. His auto-biography La verité meme si ma voix tremble is available in French and Arabic. (https://dergham.com/book--157) Show notes: [02:20] Goals in working with other ex-combatants to reach younger generations. Peacebuilding as change at the level of moral values. [08:00] Assaad’s background during the Lebanese civil war. A period in the wilderness as a “traitor”. Early interactions with Moral Rearmament / Initiatives of Change. [19:00] Dialogue across conflict lines, starting at an informal level. The gradual evolution of Assaad’s own attitudes and beliefs, before thinking about reaching agreement on tough issues. [24:30] Moving from a private change to public actions. A famous (and very controversial) open letter in 2000 expressing regrets, and ruptured relationships with many on his “side” of the civil war. [32:30] Experiences with Fighters for Peace. “What works” in changing mindsets and behaviours for younger generations, and the impossibility of knowing for sure whether you’ve made a difference. [40:45] Changes at a societal level in Lebanon over the last twenty years. What’s (still) wrong with political and media discourse. [44:50] Why the Fighters for Peace “model”, with ex-combatants in the leading role, has special power. The limitations of encouraging reflection and dialogue in the face of widespread social trauma. [50:50] Personal responsibility in conflict situations. Our expectations about the weight that individuals can carry, and what brought Assaad himself to pay the price of activism.

Dete is a researcher and activist whose work revolves around in-depth, interview-based research with people detained for terrorism offences, and their families. This includes special focus on women as both partners and protagonists. The results are used to inform dialogue with the Indonesian government and its international partners, along with targeted work to increase resilience to recruitment into vulnerable groups, and re-recruitment of former detainees. Show notes: [02:10] Early work with women in jihadist circles. Contacts with detainees in Indonesia, and beginning to work with the circle of people around them. [11:50] The difficult task of sustaining trust and confidence with government security actors, while building relationships to better understand detainees and their families. [16:00] Pivoting to focus on women with an active role in violent extremism. Starting a new organisation, SeRVE Indonesia, inspired by experiences in Tunisia. [18:30] The kinds of grievances that drive recruitment into extremist organisations, in the Indonesian context. How to address these through dialogue, when structural factors are very slow to change. [27:45] Similarities and differences in what drives the recruitment of women. Experiences with migrant domestic workers, and the shifting approach of ISIL/ISIS. [35:30] The personal and professional difficulties of working on these issues. Gaps at the grass-roots, despite the high level of international attention to “extremism” issues.

Rufa Cagoco-Guiam is an anthropologist based in General Santos City. Over the course of several decades she has worked on dozens of peacebuilding and development initiatives in the wider southern Philippines. Her perspective cuts across the usual disciplinary lines, with Rufa's CV including a lengthy academic record; stints as a newspaper editor-in-chief and columnist; and a wide range of consultancies with international institutions. Show notes: [02:00] Beginnings of involvement in Mindanao, coming from a small village in the northern Philippines. Childhood ambitions to “defend the oppressed”, and how they evolved into first steps as an adult. [10:20] An early conspiracy with a friend to escape a constricting family environment. Getting onto the right trajectory in anthropology, with a dash of political economy. [18:20] Rufa’s stint as editor-of-the-chief of the Mindanao Cross. The importance and the hazards of reporting around inter-religious tensions, violence against women and political corruption. Some slightly surreal episodes of threats and intimidation. [32:30] Academic life, and work with international development agencies following the 1996 peace agreement. Experiences with the Moro National Liberation Front. [41:00] Takeaways from nearly three decades of work on inter-religious and peacebuilding issues in the southern Philippines. Why a peace agreement is like a marriage. [44:35] What academics can contribute amidst conflict and severe political divisions. Why this potential often goes unrealised in the Philippines. [54:10] Career lowlights and highlights. What international agencies usually get wrong in the southern Philippines. [1:03:00] Rufa’s book recommendations (not what you’d expect!).

“OBB” is a Nigerian public health professional and advocate who works with the LGBT population, drug users, sex workers, and the HIV-positive. Over the last 10 years he has been managing a large program for these key population groups, for Heartland Alliance International. The work can only be described as a calling, in an often very difficult context. The Same Sex Marriage (Prohibition) Act of 2013 was a step in the wrong direction, and alongside this there is a great deal of pushback from cultural and religious institutions. Show notes: [02:05] Working to address stigma and discrimination for the LGBTQ population in Nigeria, including access to health and social care. [12:15] Working with often-unsympathetic government stakeholders. Facilitating cultural change alongside engaging with technical challenges. [19:45] First steps for starting up programmes in new contexts and new communities. Variations between different parts of Nigeria. [25:15] OBB’s own story, and how he came to be an advocate for people marginalised by mainstream health and social care. [30:20] Staying motivated in the transition from social work to managing an organisation, and losing most of his direct client contact. Major takeaways over 18 years working on these issues. [38:30] Common mistakes in engaging with marginalised groups. Experiences in north-east Nigeria amidst an ongoing armed conflict. [44:45] How to work effectively in a hostile policy environment. Dealing with a major setback in the form of the Same Sex Marriage (Prohibition) Act. [57:00] OBB’s book recommendation, and a final word for organisations looking to support marginalised communities in contexts like Nigeria.

Marie-Rose founded ESPWA not long after the 2010 earthquake which killed some 200,000 people. This led into eight years of intensive support to community-driven planning, with particular focus on the Grand ‘Anse region. We discuss the difficulties of building an inclusive platform in rural areas with little infrastructure and the usual rivalries; her own family’s heritage of political activism; and what it was like to encounter international institutions as the face of a Haitian organisation. Show notes: [02:05] Pivoting from community development in the United States to rural Haiti. Commonalities in how people can be politically and economically marginalised. [10:45] Connecting with her family’s roots in political activism in Haiti. First steps in setting up a community foundation in the Grand ‘Anse region, in the wake of the 2010 earthquake. [24:10] How to develop an inclusive platform in the Haitian context. Early difficulties in communicating this vision to local and international partners. [35:25] The concentration of attention and resources in Port-au-Prince. Relief and reconstruction after the earthquake, and how this was seen from the Grand ‘Anse. [40:25] Difficulties in dealing with international donors and multi-national charities. Encountering low levels of trust in Haitian leadership. [54:55] How to make the community foundation sustainable. Where Marie-Rose wants to go after eight years working on these issues. [1:05:00] Learning from an often-gruelling experience. The choice between the international development sector and a shark tank.

Teame teaches at the Graduate School of Education at the University of Bristol, and has consulted on education policy in a range of different countries. He is an Eritrean who obtained political asylum in the United Kingdom in the late 1970s, completed his PhD there, and has been extraordinarily active in supporting refugees and international students. For more you can find the biography ‘Long Way from Adi Ghead’ on Amazon (or elsewhere). Show notes: [02:15] Early life in the village; school and political activism in Asmara. Doing his little bit in a very difficult situation. [07:45] Going abroad for a PhD in the United Kingdom, obtaining political asylum during the Mengistu years in Ethiopia, and making it through graduate school by hook or by crook. [12:00] Early efforts to broaden international understanding in Thatcher-era Britain. Talking about Eritrean culture with primary school students. [16:00] Staying engaged with the Eritrean independence struggle; experiences with the rapid decline of post-independence government, and what can really be done under authoritarian regimes. [27:15] Current prospects in Eritrea, with ongoing liberalisation in Ethiopia. What would really be required for the country to move forward. [34:00] The role and responsibilities of a graduate institution in the rich world “looking southward". How public institutions in the south can most usefully “look northward”. [56:05] A few bad experiences as a refugee in the UK. The special background and potential of refugees despite that (occasional) negativity. [1:04:45] Formative books and education experiences for Teame himself, over a very long career in teaching about education.

Alex is an independent researcher who strives to build better bridges between the global North and South, promoting constructive dialogue and putting power imbalances higher on the agenda than they currently sit. This is a tough ask in a sector that is pretty much defined by imbalances — between those who pay, and those who are supposed to benefit. And that also has its more than its share of old-fashioned attitudes to human resources. For more you can find Alex’s personal website here: https://www.alexmartinsdev.com/ Show notes: [02:20] The life of a consultant researcher. Complicated accents that attract gentle mockery no matter where you are. [07:00] Early days in the development sector. Bottom-up and top-down perspectives, and seeing structural challenges and disparities. [17:00] Barriers to entry and advancement in the development sector for people from the global South. [22:00] How “expertise” is defined and produced, the real role and importance of formal qualifications, and the place of economics in development. [34:15] Possible approaches to amplify the voice of “southern” interlocutors in the policy conversation. [37:00] The intersection of the #AidToo moment with broader structural inequalities in the development sector. [47:45] How women are impacted differently by structural problems. The need for the development sector to modernise its human resources practices. The role of so-called “national staff”. [55:30] Unconscious biases, and “markers” that we tend to apply to the disadvantage of particular groups. Practical steps to remedy this. [1:03:00] Barriers to constructive critique and activism in the aid sector. The different kinds of fears and risks that people face, depending on where they sit.

Mario is a clinician and psychotherapist, who first started working with Guatemalan immigrants to the USA in the early 1990s. These days he’s clinical supervisor at the Marjorie Kovler Centre in Chicago (https://www.heartlandalliance.org/kovler/), a part of the Heartland Alliance. He works with people claiming political asylum, and helps on initiatives elsewhere around the world. We discuss a three-decade journey with severely traumatised people, what can work in rebuilding resilience, and the gradual growth of the field. Show notes: [02:30] Mario’s work with survivors of torture, and how they can rebuild and move on with their lives. How people react to his job when he meets them socially. [11:20] How to reach people across cultural and language divides. Finding cultural and spiritual resources to build resilience. [22:15] Application of the Kovler Center’s approach in Guatemala, Colombia, and other contexts where resources for this kind of work are not abundant. [27:00] How psychotherapy can work for people who have had their trust in people and institutions destroyed. What the first steps look like. [37:00] How Mario manages the cumulative stress of dealing with thousands of cases of torture. How to balance genuine empathy with self-care over the long term. [46:15] The evolution of the field over thirty years, from modest beginnings to its present state. Mario's key intellectual and practical influences.

Farai is director at the Centre for Natural Resources Governance in Zimbabwe (http://cnrgzim.org), and works to empower communities for whom an abundance of natural resources has brought nothing but trouble. He has attracted considerable international recognition in this role, but this is a slightly more personal story about the journey into human rights advocacy and community organising. Show notes: [02:00] Human rights abuses around natural resources exploitation in Zimbabwe. Farai’s work at home and abroad. [11:00] The perverse effects of natural resources for poor communities, and the limits of responsible sourcing initiatives like the Kimberly process. [17:00] How Farai came to work in this area. The journey from reaction to pro-action, and building a sustainable community movement. [25:00] Lessons from a decade-plus of activism in a repressive political climate. The ethical and practical pitfalls of engaging with the Zimbabwean government. [30:20] Some international influences and inspiration for effective activism around natural resources, including human rights advocacy and "better-governed" countries. [39:00] The frustrations of community advocacy in a hostile political environment, and staying motivated despite little tangible progress. [49:30] How to help enable communities to speak for themselves, in an environment where political speech has been actively supressed for a generation. [55:10] Advice for international institutions that are concerned with natural resources exploitation, if they want to responsibly contribute in situations like Zimbabwe.

Dan spent several years with the “Group of Experts” in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. These are people tasked by the UN Security Council to work out what is really going on with sanctions, armed groups, and smuggling. The approach has generally been low profile, but became somewhat infamous with the murder of two of Dan’s successors in Kasai province in 2017. At a practical level it’s an immensely important role that is a “force multiplier” for effective diplomatic, security and aid intervention, and we unpack how it works from several different directions. Show notes: [02:15] How Dan went from the U.S. Navy to investigating mineral trafficking and armed groups in central Africa, by way of a PhD. [10:45] Following the supply chain for illegally traded gold on foot, from the bush in DRC to the black market in Kampala [16:50] When we don’t have the right information. Failures to “ground truth” our beliefs about fragile places; the mysterious tale of “Mr X” and the ADF in North Kivu. [24:45] When we have the right information, but can't or won’t use it. The frustrations of faith-based policy, and narrow self-interest, in the Congo and in UN peace operations. [30:50] The trade-offs of stepping back from field research, to a more stable role. Knowing when it was time to step back as the security risks for the Group of Experts accumulated. [36:20] The true costs of not understanding the context in which we’re intervening, versus the narrow operational costs of security management. The UN dropping the ball in Ituri despite a huge initial investment of resources. [49:00] What we can change at a system level to improve knowledge of the terrain when undertaking large interventions like a peace operation. How to ground truth assumptions and theories of change. [57:45] What academics get right and wrong about research in unstable and violent places. Some amazing work versus speculation from afar. [1:04:25] Dan’s book on his time with the Group of Experts. Why we need more practitioner accounts of peace-making interventions.

Lewis is a researcher and advocate who’s worked in some of the toughest environments around over the last decade, often in the immediate aftermath of war crimes and crimes against humanity. This interview touches on the Democratic Republic of the Congo, the Central African Republic, Rwanda, and Burundi. We get into both the practicalities of “doing” human rights, and the personal journey that’s entailed. Episode notes: [03:15] How Lewis talks about his job, people’s reactions, and the limited presence of Central Africa in the Western imagination [05:55] Working with community radio in the DR Congo, the advantages of lax security rules, and the “flag raising racket" [12:55] Why Human Rights Watch was appealing as a next step, what the day-to-day looked like, and why it remains “fascinating” ten years later [21:00] Keeping a sense of optimism and/or perspective despite unambiguously bad trends in the DRC, CAR and Burundi [29:30] A walk-through a few career “highlights” with investigation and advocacy in Burundi and the C.A.R. [35:25] What it takes to have longevity in the human rights sector [39:00] Hopes and disappointments in the Central African Republic over the last five years, what did and didn’t go right [47:25] Stories from the road in C.A.R. and the criticality of encountering different perspectives, especially ones that don’t usually get captured. [1:03:50] Constructing a sustainable career in human rights, navigating changes in responsibilities, and pulling back from front-line research and advocacy

Tariq has led teams on the ground in most of the major disasters of the last decade, with agencies including Oxfam, Médecins sans frontières, AfghanAid and the International Rescue Committee. These are the highest-pressure management environments one can imagine, and this is a pretty wide-ranging conversation on professional practice and ethics in the humanitarian sector. Episode notes: [02:15] A career trajectory in emergency response, from beginnings in Afghanistan, through central and west Africa, to Yemen and Iraq. The advantages of learning the ropes in a small and locally-led organisation. [05:00] The initial appeal of working on major emergencies, and early experiences. How humanitarian agencies recruit and manage people. The advantages and disadvantages of the MSF model. [09:30] The limits of localisation and why the big humanitarian agencies remain relevant. How to lead in a “surge” where there’s a need to move quickly, and little clear guidance. Losing patience with ego-driven management. [13:15] “The greatest job that he ever had”. A career highlight in Yemen, scaling up operations under high-intensity bombing. [15:45] Career lowlights. Resigning due to unethical behaviour, and the standards that must be maintained for humanitarian action. [18:30] Management principles for unpredictable operating environments. The humanitarian sector’s tendency to under-value professional management, and to under-invest in it. [25:30] Key mentor figures, including an early colleague in Afghanistan. [29:00] What comes next, after fifteen years in major emergencies. The lack of sustainable career paths in the humanitarian sector, and the price that individuals pay for that.

A short introduction to the 100 Voices project. I explain why I think it’s needed, the kind of practitioner we’re getting involved, and what the process will look like.