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 Colleen Schnettler  00:00This week's episode of the Software Social Podcast is brought to you by Hopscotch Product Tours. Hopscotch Product Tours allows you to improve user onboarding with helpful product tours that guide your users to success. Also reduce frustration by helping users learn how to use your product without the need for demo calls, visit Hopscotch.club today and start delighting your users with Hopscotch Product Tours. Michele Hansen  00:28Hey, Colleen. Colleen Schnettler  00:29Hey, Michele.  Michele Hansen  00:31How you doing?  Colleen Schnettler  00:32I'm doing pretty well. I had a pretty uplifting week over here in the Simple File Upload world.  Michele Hansen  00:38You know what? That's good to hear. Because I feel like last week you were, we talked about how you were kind of feeling like you were in the void.  Colleen Schnettler  00:44I totally was. And, you know, I still feel that but I'm trying to, two things happen that changed my perspective. One, I got another check from Heroku. So that always helps. That doesn't hurt. And I'm kind of just trying to focus on my mindset as I approach this business. I have to say the check from Heroku because unlike Stripe, where you just get paid randomly when people, you know, when people pay, you only get paid once a month. So I've been telling you I have $800 MRR for like three weeks, and I haven't seen that money. So I just saw that money yesterday. So that was pretty exciting. Michele Hansen  01:21Nice Colleen Schnettler  01:22Yeah, I think I remember telling you my very first check. I got like I had enough leftover to buy a bagel.  Michele Hansen  01:28Yes. The bagel, the $20 bagel. Colleen Schnettler  01:30The $20 bagel. Well, this time it was it was quite a bit more so I could could have bought quite a few bagels. So that was pretty exciting.  Michele Hansen  01:37And I saw you tweeted out earlier this week that the Stripe payouts, I was just like payout, payout, payout. Colleen Schnettler  01:45I think what must happen is like people must have signed up, there were, like, four or five people who signed up like one day apart. And so the all of their invoices hit like right after each other. So I like signed on to my email every day, and it was like payout payout payout. It was awesome. It's very exciting. It was a lot of excitedness in terms of actually seeing the fruits of my labor on this product this week. So that was fun.  Michele Hansen  02:10Yay. Internet money.  Colleen Schnettler  02:12Yay, internet money.  Michele Hansen  02:13So where is your MRR at now? So I just checked and I'm at $975. I know. What? Oh my god, you're almost at the $1,000 MRR mark, and it's been, like, three months. Yeah, I guess it's, yeah, three, oh my god. Like,  Colleen Schnettler  02:35Yeah.  Michele Hansen  02:36That's, that's not common. Like, just for everybody else kind of like, listening like that is, that is very uncommon. Like, you're you're not like ending up on $1,000 after three months like Coleen like that's, that's normal. Like, I think it took us like six months, and even then that was kind of fast for a little project. Dude, 975. Yeah. Colleen Schnettler  02:57That's real money. It's real. That's why my last check. Because if you look at my checks from Heroku, and once again, I only get those once a month. It's not like Stripe. It was like the first one was like 150. The second one was like 250. This last one was like $570. I was like, that's like, real money. Like I could do something with that money. That's cool. Yeah, so, so from a monetary perspective, it's going great. I think I, I was struggling a lot. And I still am kind of struggling because I don't have a good feedback loop. I have been kind of unsure what to do next, and how to push the product forward. And it's funny because I like I think mid last week, I was just in a funk. And I was like, You know what, I'm just gonna build it the way I want to build it. I'm gonna develop all these features. I don't care what anyone tells me. Like, I'm just gonna do what I want to do. And you know, of course, everyone I talked to is like, that's a terrible idea. And the best way someone phrased it to me, they were like, what if you do go and you spend a couple months and you build all these features you feel like you need, you're still not going to know who your customer is. Like, I was complaining because I don't know who my customer is. And she was like, even if you spend this time to build that out, you'll be three months down the road, and you still won't know who your customer is. So have you made any progress? And I was like, oh, that's a good way to put it. So, I did a few interviews this week, which was really great. I'm really gonna take a pause on any kind of development work, and just talk to people. I mean, talk talk, talk.  Michele Hansen  03:01Colleen. Colleen Schnettler  03:02I know, I know. Michele Hansen  03:04You're done putzing around in the code garden and like, you're out there in the town square.  Colleen Schnettler  03:29I'm convinced. Like, between the, I mean, I probably five different people had to tell me this. But like you guys have convinced me that I just need to talk to more people. I just need, I don't know. Like, if you ask me who my ideal customer was, like, is, or who this provides value to, I can't identify that person, and casting a net of all developers is way too broad and too vague. So, that's really what I am focused on. In the next couple months, I think another thing is I need to calm down a little bit and slow down and be a little bit more patient.  Michele Hansen  05:21You said that you could go off and build something for three months, and it sounds like this person you were talking to, kind of helped you realize basically, like, you wouldn't know who you were building for and why you were building it and how they needed any of that to work.  Colleen Schnettler  05:39Yeah. And I think that's exactly the thing. So, so this week has been great. I spoke to three consultants, I have another one today, and I'm trying to get to five consultants, which I'm sure I can find one more person. Here's the thing, Michele, they all want different things.  Michele Hansen  05:56Oh. Colleen Schnettler  05:57So, unless I have the team and the budget of a CloudFlare, I can't build one product that fits the needs for all of these three different people.  Michele Hansen  06:09You know what this sounds like?  Colleen Schnettler  06:10No. Michele Hansen  06:11It sounds like the very beginning of a research loop to me.  Colleen Schnettler  06:15What's a research loop?  Michele Hansen  06:16Okay, so it's basically this idea that, like, you do a group of like, five interviews, and then you sort of analyze that and say, okay, of all of these different problems I've had, or rather, I've heard, which ones both sound, people are already paying for them to be solved, and they're unhappy with the way that they're being solved or in, they can also be paying in terms of significant amounts of time, like that counts. And then which of these problems do you think are relatively both feasible for you to solve, like, it would be possible for you to build something, and could also be like, commercially viable for you to sell, like, people would be willing to pay enough that would justify the time that goes into it. So basically kind of analyzing what you've heard so far, based on you know, how, how well those needs are already met, or, or not met?  Colleen Schnettler  07:07Yeah. Michele Hansen  07:08What they're already willing to pay for. And then, and then doing another round, focusing on those sort of top priority problems to figure out where you should go next. Like, it's completely normal that you would talk to five people and hear five different things. That doesn't mean you're doing anything wrong, if anything, that's really exciting.  Colleen Schnettler  07:30Oh, that made me excited. I felt like crap. Now, I don't know what to do.  Michele Hansen  07:35Oh, yeah, that makes sense. And you do it kind of like a pyramid, basically. You start out with a really wide scope in the beginning because you're casting a really wide net, like, you're just talking to all software consultants, which is a pretty broad, big net. And then you just sort of narrow it down based on where your capabilities are, and where people are willing to pay for stuff, and they're not happy with what they're currently doing.  Colleen Schnettler  08:02Yeah. Okay. So that was, that was really good. You're right. It's good to hear the details of what people struggle with, what their pain points are, how frequently they have those pain points. But yeah, I was only three interviews. So nothing magical came to light, like, oh, if I just did this one thing, I would have the product everyone wants, like, there was nothing like that. Everyone was building or wanted to build kind of a specialized solution for their needs. So, I guess the answer is just continue to talk to more people in that situation.  Michele Hansen  08:38Yeah, and, you know, also making it flexible, too. Like, if you genuinely hear that everybody wants something different, then, you know, making it so that they can customize it to their own needs is another route you could go on. But, I mean, it does not surprise me at all that you would not be hearing commonalities after just three people.  Colleen Schnettler  08:58Yeah. Yeah. Michele Hansen  09:00That's totally normal.  Colleen Schnettler  09:02Yeah. So, I think, I mean, before I start, like, what, I really want to go build an integration for this thing, or build an integration for that thing, but I think before I do any of that, like I said, I'm, you know, this is, there's no finish line here, right? Like this is this is my life, like, this is what I want to do. Even if I sold my company, I'd want to build another company. So I'm just trying to be a little bit patient and take my time and really figure out who the customer is and, you know, learn, learn about what they need and figure out how I can customize this product to their needs.  Michele Hansen  09:44It sounds like that, for you, like, that is almost the opposite of your instinct. Like your instinct is to go and build for three months.  Colleen Schnettler  09:57I mean, that's what I want to do. Like, let's be clear. Like I love people, but this process of like, finding people and like the, the whole, the whole logistics of it, you know, it's a lot. It takes a lot out of your day, I found that I'm a little nervous before I talk to them. it's a lot of emotional energy to like contain my own excitement, while I'm talking to them. And listen, like, that takes quite a bit of concentration as a beginner. Michele Hansen  10:24It takes concentration for me. It takes emotional energy for me. I mean, this is why I have this rule for myself that I don't do more than two in a day because the amount of energy that's required to sort of just, you know, I picture myself like this sponge that is just there to absorb whatever the other person says. Like, that requires a lot of energy, and, you know, a couple weeks ago, when I was first starting to interview all of my readers about my book, and my very meta interviews about customer interviews, I did six in one day, out of enthusiasm for this and, and at the end of that I was like, I heard so many amazing things. But I was also like, okay, now I remember why I've had two per day rule.  Colleen Schnettler  11:10Yeah. Yeah, so I think that's kind of, uh, definitely goes against my instincts to slow down and try and identify my customer. But I think the point that I want to build all these things, but until I know who I'm going to be serving, I don't even know what is important to build, and I can't know what is important to build, until I talk to people who need this product, who I, to identify them and talk to them. So that's going to, that's going to mean that I need to be a little more aggressive in finding people. I can't just like, I mean, I put a thing on Twitter, and I found five people, but I was only looking for five people. Like, I want more than I want a lot of people. So I think I'm going to try some of those strategies, you know, go on Reddit, and the strategies you write about in your book, actually. If you'd like to, I mean, you talk about this in your book, I reference your book, even though it's not done, like I haven't, I'm looking at it all the time, just so you know. Michele Hansen  12:06You know, one thing I want to note is that doing development work and customer research work, like, they're not an either, or. It doesn't have to be this switch, where you're only doing one at a time. Like I think, you know, the best cases are when this kind of research is just integrated into what you're already doing. And, you know, it does take time and focus, and like, context switching is difficult so you couldn't, you know, just like, you know, write code for like half an hour and then interview someone then right? Like, you can't sort of just switch back and forth super easily, but integrating it into your process. And maybe it's not that you, you know, don't go out and build these features for three months in a cave, or also that you don't go out and just talk to people for three months. It's that you do you know, both, you know, it's like, in the same way that, that people often ask me whether they should talk to people or whether they should look at analytics, and I'm like, porque no los dos? Like, do it at the same time.  Colleen Schnettler  13:07Yeah.  Michele Hansen  13:08Like, you could, you know, like, for example, I remember you talking about something you came out of the interview with Drew where you wanted to pull the code pen forward on the marketing side?  Colleen Schnettler  13:17Yes.  Michele Hansen  13:18Has that happened?  Colleen Schnettler  13:20No.  Michele Hansen  13:21Oh, I don't mean to, like call you out or anything. It's like, you know, there's like,  Colleen Schnettler  13:25Developer calling me out on my own podcast, Michele. Michele Hansen  13:28I'm sorry. Like, there's development work you can do, Colleen Schnettler  13:32Yeah. Michele Hansen  13:33That you'll find in these things as you go.  Colleen Schnettler  13:35Yeah. And I think that's, that's really the key. And that, that's will keep me in like a happy psychological state, too, because I'll get to, I'll get to do a little code, I'll get to talk to a little people. I get to do a little code, I'll get to talk to a little people. So I think, I think that you're absolutely right. Like that is a good path forward. I think, I guess what I'm trying to sort out, so when I built this thing I built it like to do one very specific thing, right? Like, it was designed to help you get public files from your users onto your site, and I was actually making, I was using it for brochures. We were doing real estate brochures, and people have started using it and all kinds of different ways, and that's been really instructive. So, even that piece of information is interesting, and a good thing to learn. So, yeah, so I think it's just keeping an open mind and making those kinds of changes that are kind of obvious, like, the code pen more accessible as I go forward. That's kind of, kind of my plan. Oh, and I wanted to say, so what I've been doing, I think I read this in your book, too, is I've been recording, obviously, with their permission and then dropping it in Otter.ai to get a transcript, and it's so awesome because now I can just read. It takes me five minutes to read instead of watching the 30 minute video, and I have the information, like, right there at my fingertips. I love that.  Michele Hansen  15:07It's awesome. Yeah, and Otter makes it so easy to do a transcript. It's actually what we use for this podcast. I should totally like, reach out to them and see if they'll sponsor us or something.  Colleen Schnettler  15:19I have a paid subscription.  Michele Hansen  15:21Yeah. Colleen Schnettler  15:21Because I was like, this is so worth it. Like, it's so cool.  Michele Hansen  15:24Yeah, then you could just, like, Colleen Schnettler  15:25That's been, Michele Hansen  15:25Print it out and highlight.  Colleen Schnettler  15:27Yeah, well, that's been such a great way to collate the data, because I was like, okay, if I want to get serious about this and talk to, you know, 15, 20 people, what, am I going to go back and watch all those interviews? I really don't want to. So, that's been a really cool way to get the data. I'm, like, pumped about that. And so, yeah.  Michele Hansen  15:46Yeah, if we were doing this, like in a sort of serious, like corporate, you know, company setting, what you would do is actually like, take all of those transcripts, and then clip out like, specific key phrases and key words, and sentences where someone is really clearly describing their different use case and then, I mean, I feel like there's this sort of this meme about how much like, UX people love post it notes, and like rearranging post it notes on boards. And, like, those, you know, all of those quotes basically end up as post it notes where you're making a timeline of the user's journey through trying to do something, and you're evaluating it on functional social and emotional levels. And like, everyone in the team is like placing post it notes in all of these different areas from all the different interviews. Like you might have one color that you use for a particular customer or a particular interview, for example. It's super time intensive. It's also really fun, and yes, it brings amazing results, but even if you're not doing that, like, even the fact of getting the transcript made, going, reading through it, pulling out the key phrases, and then just, kind of, knowing where to find that information yourself, or like, jotting that down on a card, or whatever that is, wherever you're keeping information so you know what to go back and reference later can be really helpful.  Colleen Schnettler  17:03Yeah, yeah, I'm pumped to go in this customer interview journey, I think I'm going to approach it the way you kind of describe where, of course, I'm not going to not touch the code, like there's going to be, there's going to be both, I'm gonna do them in parallel. But I really want to kind of identify who, who it is I can provide the most value to, and I want to be specific about it. So,  Michele Hansen  17:22Yeah. Colleen Schnettler  17:23That's kind of my goal going forward. And that's going to take a while. I think that's the other thing I have to remember is like, that's not going to happen in a week. That's going to take me a little while. So, Michele Hansen  17:33I mean, in some ways, it's never over. And I don't know if that really, I don't know if that helps you. Like, I don't know if that's something I should tell you now, but like, you know, I'm a firm believer that research should be just part of your ongoing workflow and sort of building this bank of customer understanding that is a living, breathing organism. And it's not that we do a research project for a month and then build stuff for three months, then do a research project. Like, it's just always happening.  Colleen Schnettler  18:00Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of all the wonderful info I got from your book while I was doing these customer interviews, how is the book going?  Michele Hansen  18:09It's good, it's good. I feel like we're, we're getting into the more serious editing phase. I'm kind of, Colleen Schnettler  18:17Didn't you have a picture this morning of like, the book on your desk with a bunch of pens on Twitter?  Michele Hansen  18:21Oh, yeah, I did, I printed it out, and I started reading it, like, as as a book and editing it, and I have four different colors of pens for my editing. And I used to do editing and print layout professionally, and I've sort of volunteer edited other people's books before.  Colleen Schnettler  18:40So random. Michele Hansen  18:41So yeah, no, it was like, stuff I did when I was in college. So, um, so, so yeah, I'm really pumped, because actually, this is a phase of it that I feel like I understand the best. And I know, like I have seen where, you know, there was one book that I helped edit that went on to win a major like, international prize and like, I didn't have anything to do with that, but like it, I saw what that book was in its early stages, and so I know that like, the fact that I'm tearing this to shreds right now is like a normal part of the process, like, and even really amazing books, like they everything starts out in a rough shape. I'm really appreciating how different writing a book is from writing a newsletter, like, how much of a gulf there is between that.  Colleen Schnettler  19:27Yeah. Michele Hansen  19:28Um, but, but I'm having fun. I feel like I have torn like the introduction absolutely to shreds. I mean, I had like four introductory chapters, and like, I think that was too many. Like, I was really burying the lead. So it's good. You know, I've brought in friends who are outside of our little bubble in tech to help me edit who were people that I know who will be harsh and honest with me, and they trust that I'm not going to be offended, and so I'm so grateful to have their help. And I've interviewed about 25 ish people now as part of it. So it's, it's going along. It's good.  Colleen Schnettler  20:11That's awesome. I'm excited. And I also heard, and by heard, I mean, you told me, that you took your live chat widget off of your website.  Michele Hansen  20:22I'm so excited.  Colleen Schnettler  20:23Talk to me about that.  Michele Hansen  20:24Okay, so this, so, this is something that has been building for a while, and for a long time, not not just since we moved here, but for a long time, the pings of live chat have been really stressful for us.  Colleen Schnettler  20:43I imagine.  Michele Hansen  20:44Yeah. And even, like, when we were in the US, like, we were on eastern time, and we would stop working around 4:30 or 5 on any given day, and we would still be getting requests, you know, through eight o'clock at the minimum, because of the West Coast, if not later, because of Hawaii and Alaska. And so we were sort of used to getting pinged from customer support at all hours of the day. It was not necessarily that there's a volume problem, because, so we have this idea that every support ticket only happens once.  Colleen Schnettler  21:18I think you've mentioned that.  Michele Hansen  21:19So this is kind of this principle that we operate on that whenever somebody, whether it's a bug or somebody is confused about something, like, if there's any way that we can make something clearer, or fix something, or basically prevent that ticket from ever happening again, we do that. So nothing gets closed until it's fixed. And, and so we operate on that principle, and that has really reduced our support volume over the years. But also, but still throughout that, and I think especially being on a European timezone serving North American customers like, that gets really difficult because you know, our daughter gets out of school at three o'clock, and then our customers wake up at three o'clock, and then it's just, like, it's just chaos, and having live chat specifically, like, people don't know when they can expect to get a live response versus when they have to wait. And I have experimented with so many different versions of copy on the little live chat widget, and none of them really seem to communicate that it's, like, it may not actually be live.  Colleen Schnettler  22:30Okay.  Michele Hansen  22:31And then on the flip side, some other people assume it's a robot and like, don't even use it.  Colleen Schnettler  22:35Yeah, that's me. But keep going. Michele Hansen  22:37I've seen that come up in usability testing, like, when I've had people screen share, and go through our site. So um, you know, a couple months ago, I was telling this to some founder friends, and what, what came out of it was basically, you know, live chat was really important for our growth, especially in the early days, like, I'm thinking like, like, 2016, 17, 18, especially when we're going full time. And, but the things that you do to grow are not necessarily the things you have to do to maintain and be a stable business, right? You know, we're growing. Like, we grew 56% last year, even though we didn't really try to, but growth is not what we optimize for. We optimize for stability. And so those things that we did in the early days to grow, like, could use different tactics now, and where the live chat kind of stresses us out and doesn't work for our family, but also like, it creates this expectation mismanagement with our customers. And people are still getting a reply directly from the founders, and just this morning, somebody emailed us, and then we got back to them an hour later. And then the response we got back was, "Wow, I'm so amazed that you were able to give me a helpful answer so quickly." And like, that was an hour versus immediate, and they still had that, like, positive reaction. So, we just did this the other day, we'll see how it goes. But, but I'm kind of nervous, excited, relieved all the same.  Colleen Schnettler  24:14So you still have the widget, it just says,  Michele Hansen  24:18No, we got rid of the widget. We removed the widget.  So there's no widget at all? Yeah, I mean, it's still, like, popping up in random places. So we were like, going through the codebase and trying to find all the different places we have that launcher. But, no, but we're still using intercom and the platform, like, so all the email is still coming into intercom, but we don't have the live chat bubble in the corner, and we don't have any prompts that say, you know, contact us if you have a billing question. Like, if you click on Contact Us, it doesn't pull up intercom chat widget. It instead creates an email.  Colleen Schnettler  24:50Okay, so if I am on your site, and I want to contact you, I now have to scroll to the bottom to the footer, or wherever, click contact us, and that'll pop up in my email so I can email you? Michele Hansen  25:00It's in the header. And,  Colleen Schnettler  25:01Okay, but,  Michele Hansen  25:02And then it's,  Colleen Schnettler  25:02Okay.  Michele Hansen  25:03It lists all the different emails. Yeah.  Colleen Schnettler  25:06Now tell me about some concerns you have about making this.  Michele Hansen  25:09I think I, like, a concern I have is that, you know, people will be upset, right, that they may have expected an immediate response before. But, you know, at the same time, like, most of our long term customers, like, they email us anyway. And actually, most of them have our personal emails, and like, they don't expect an immediate response. You know, our, when I was talking to those friends a couple of months ago, they were like, "You guys are providing way too high of a quality of customer service. Like, I know that you guys pride yourselves on it. Like, even doing the customer support as the founders yourselves is so far beyond what most companies do, nevermind doing it live 24/7." Like, they're like, that's that, that doesn't make sense. And like, you guys can be, you know, be gentle with yourselves, basically. Um, you know, people have been like, "Why don't you just hire someone?" And the problem with it is that because we have solved all of the easy support problems, like, the ones we do get are fairly complicated. And if someone else were to take this over, they would need to be a support engineer, who, you know, is capable of debugging people's problems, but also like, able to negotiate contracts and do billing issues and like, like, they would need to somehow be a clone of the two of us. And it doesn't really seem reasonable. So, so yeah, I think, and again, it's, it's not the volume, that it's the problem, it was really that cadence. It's when someone is, you know, chatting and saying, "Hi, are you there?"  Colleen Schnettler  26:47Right. Michele Hansen  26:48Is the API working? My API key, my API key is, you know, it's doing this like, and it's like, and it's like, every, like one like, ping every minute versus someone sending us an email that's like, hey, like, so we're trying to use it earlier, and then this is what happens, and here's the error message. Like, people tend to be much more verbose and email. So,  Colleen Schnettler  27:05Yes. Michele Hansen  27:06I'm nervous. But we'll see, we'll see how it goes. I think that this is, you know, an adjustment that we need to make. Colleen Schnettler  27:13I don't think anyone will care. I think you will get absolutely no, I think this is all upside for you. I mean, it's gonna be so good for your quality of life. I don't, I literally don't think anyone's gonna care. I mean, I think you're gonna find that it doesn't have any impact on your business.  Michele Hansen  27:29We'll see. We'll see. But, you know, we're kind of operating under that idea that the things that we needed to do to grow, are not necessarily the same things that you do to, when you have a stable, secure business.  Colleen Schnettler  27:43Yeah.  Michele Hansen  27:44Yeah. Which is kind of weird, like, also in the software world, cuz I feel like, you know, we talk about this all the time, that if you're trying to build a, you know, sort of, quote, unquote, like, Calm company, right, like, you're not going down the unicorn route. Like, like most of the advice and growth tactics, and everything out, like, business advice is geared towards those companies that want to be huge, and less so towards us little one, two person companies. Like, the things that make sense for us, or, you know, we have a totally different set of incentives and resources and constraints and goals. Like, all those things are so different, that the fact that we're all in software is, is almost sort of beside the point.  Colleen Schnettler  28:29It is complete, it is wild, isn't it? Like how different the tactics are.  Michele Hansen  28:34Like we have more in common with a small retail business, but we also don't fit in with them because we're not a physical business. Like, it's like, I don't know, small SaaS. We're like, we're just a weird breed, man. Yeah.  Colleen Schnettler  28:50Well, I hope it I hope it alleviate some of that pressure and stress. I imagine, especially with the timezone issues since you guys have moved, that's got to be just challenging.  Michele Hansen  29:02Yeah, my friends who also, you know, run SaaS's out of Europe with North American customers, like, I have talked to them a little bit about this and they're like, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's tough. It's really tough. Colleen Schnettler  29:18Yeah, definitely. Awesome. Well, I'm, I'm glad. I think, I feel like, this is gonna work for you. Michele Hansen  29:25We'll see. Maybe in six months we'll be like, oh my god, we don't have any new customers and everybody cancelled because we don't have the chat thing, but I hope not.  Colleen Schnettler  29:33I mean, honestly, and I know you said they, they come in two groups, but I just assumed there will not be a person on the other side of the chat widget. So, if I hit your chat widget, I just assume I'm going to send you an email. You know what I mean? I think you'll be fine.   Michele Hansen  29:47Yeah, I think people have totally different expectations. And what we have tried to communicate is that we're not making it harder to contact us, like we're not, you know, offshoring our support. Like, you can still go to the header and click, like, contact. You can still email us, like, it's still the two founders doing the support. It's just one of the tools we use for that is going away.  Colleen Schnettler  30:13Yeah, cool. I can't wait to hear an update on how that goes. All right. Well, I guess that'll wrap us up for this week. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, please tweet about it. That always makes us happy, and we love hearing what you think.

The Collect: Almighty Father, whose dear Son, on the night before he suffered, instituted the Sacrament of his Body and Blood: Mercifully grant that we may receive it thankfully in remembrance of Jesus Christ our Lord, who in these holy mysteries gives us a pledge of eternal life; and who now lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen. Old Testament: Exodus 12:1-4, (5-10), 11-14 1 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt: 2This month shall mark for you the beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year for you. 3Tell the whole congregation of Israel that on the tenth of this month they are to take a lamb for each family, a lamb for each household. 4If a household is too small for a whole lamb, it shall join its closest neighbour in obtaining one; the lamb shall be divided in proportion to the number of people who eat of it. 5Your lamb shall be without blemish, a year-old male; you may take it from the sheep or from the goats. 6You shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month; then the whole assembled congregation of Israel shall slaughter it at twilight.7They shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat it. 8They shall eat the lamb that same night; they shall eat it roasted over the fire with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. 9Do not eat any of it raw or boiled in water, but roasted over the fire, with its head, legs, and inner organs. 10You shall let none of it remain until the morning; anything that remains until the morning you shall burn. 11This is how you shall eat it: your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it hurriedly. It is the passover of the Lord. 12For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike down every firstborn in the land of Egypt, both human beings and animals; on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgements: I am the Lord. 13The blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you live: when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and no plague shall destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt. 14This day shall be a day of remembrance for you. You shall celebrate it as a festival to the Lord; throughout your generations you shall observe it as a perpetual ordinance. Psalm: Psalm 116:1, 10-17 1 I love the Lord, because he has heard the voice of my supplication, *        because he has inclined his ear to me whenever I called upon him. 10 How shall I repay the Lord *        for all the good things he has done for me? 11 I will lift up the cup of salvation *        and call upon the Name of the Lord. 12 I will fulfill my vows to the Lord *        in the presence of all his people. 13 Precious in the sight of the Lord *        is the death of his servants. 14 O Lord, I am your servant; *        I am your servant and the child of your handmaid;        you have freed me from my bonds. 15 I will offer you the sacrifice of thanksgiving *        and call upon the Name of the Lord. 16 I will fulfill my vows to the Lord *        in the presence of all his people, 17 In the courts of the Lord's house, *        in the midst of you, O Jerusalem.        Hallelujah! Epistle: 1 Corinthians 11:23-26 23 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, ‘This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' 25In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.' 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Gospel: John 13:1-17, 31b-35 1 Now before the festival of the Passover, Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart from this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. 2The devil had already put it into the heart of Judas son of Simon Iscariot to betray him. And during supper 3Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going to God, 4got up from the table, took off his outer robe, and tied a towel around himself. 5Then he poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel that was tied around him. 6He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, ‘Lord, are you going to wash my feet?' 7Jesus answered, ‘You do not know now what I am doing, but later you will understand.' 8Peter said to him, ‘You will never wash my feet.' Jesus answered, ‘Unless I wash you, you have no share with me.' 9Simon Peter said to him, ‘Lord, not my feet only but also my hands and my head!' 10Jesus said to him, ‘One who has bathed does not need to wash, except for the feet, but is entirely clean. And you are clean, though not all of you.' 11For he knew who was to betray him; for this reason he said, ‘Not all of you are clean.' 12 After he had washed their feet, had put on his robe, and had returned to the table, he said to them, ‘Do you know what I have done to you? 13You call me Teacher and Lord—and you are right, for that is what I am.14So if I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. 15For I have set you an example, that you also should do as I have done to you. 16Very truly, I tell you, servants are not greater than their master, nor are messengers greater than the one who sent them. 17If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them. 31 ‘Now the Son of Man has been glorified, and God has been glorified in him. 32If God has been glorified in him, God will also glorify him in himself and will glorify him at once.33Little children, I am with you only a little longer. You will look for me; and as I said to the Jews so now I say to you, “Where I am going, you cannot come.” 34I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. 35By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.'

Welcome to the CXR channel, our premier podcast for talent acquisition and talent management listening as the CXR community discusses a wide range of topics focused on attracting, engaging and retaining the best talent. We're glad you're here. Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:19Welcome, everybody to another CareerXroads podcast. I am really excited. This is one of our quick recap shows. So this is just where we grab a couple of folks right out of one of our meetings. And we talked a little bit about did we have any big takeaways, any aha moments, any omgs all the way through the session and just share and chat a little bit about that. I have a few so I am excited to jump right in. And we I have with me obviously everybody knows Gerry. Gerry Crispin say hello to everybody. Gerry Crispin, CXR 0:50Hello Chris Hoyt, CXR 0:51There he goes. But also to guests that are members of ours that were in the meeting. Marlon, Hazel, introduce yourself. Tell us a little bit about what you do at Merakey and Cigna / Express Scripts. Fill us in, who are ya? Marlon Tatom, Merakey 1:09Ladies first Hazel Cormier, Cigna Express Scripts 1:11Oh, great, thank you. Hi, Hazel Cormier with Cigna Express Scripts on recruitment director leading recruitment for our legacy Express Scripts organization primarily in the clinical spaces of nursing and pharmacists as well as non clinical so your sales, product innovation, type of tech talent, as well. Chris Hoyt, CXR 1:33Good Stuff Marlon Tatom, Merakey 1:33Alright, I'm Marlon Tatum I work with Merakey we, I'm a lead recruiter with the company. And we pretty much provide different service lines with IDD behavior, health. And everything that falls between that from HVAC tech to administrative assistant we hire for provide a provide needs for the for the company, and we're roughly 15 different states. So I believe we're in California, we're in Texas, I'm just thinking about the different areas you guys are in. We're at all the office states that you guys live in, I believe we have services that we offer. So yeah, definitely. Chris Hoyt, CXR 2:14So this was our first, this was our first healthcare recruitment meeting of the year. And any, any surprising moments, any sort of big takeaways for you as a result of attending today? Hazel Cormier, Cigna Express Scripts 2:30Yeah, I think it was really great to see companies working together. In a competitive market. It's interesting, because Cigna Express Scripts, we've always been open to working with our competitors, you know, proven through our deal with prime therapeutics and our partnerships, even with our direct competitor, Humana. So it's one thing to work from a business standpoint with your competitors, which we've opened that up. But it's another thing to work with your competitor when it comes to talent, because I think there's still a lot of, you know, me, me, me when it comes to talent. So I was really impressed to see these organizations come together and be able to come up with a program that's really for the good of Milwaukee, and then good for their for organizations. Chris Hoyt, CXR 3:17Yeah, and I'll just I'll set that stage there, Hazel, it's a great call. So what we saw today Advocate Aurora Health and Froedtert. Had partnered together with several other health care organizations to to create a nonprofit centers for healthcare careers of Southeast Wisconsin, they got a right to come together to help solve the shortage of talent that they had, whereas formerly their recruiting strategies consisted of recruiting from each other. They formed this collaboration, which was pretty interesting. And I agree with you, I thought quite incredible, Marlon about you? Marlon Tatom, Merakey 3:55I definitely agree with Hazel, and you as far as that, the partnerships that and sharing those trends and sharing the information that that we all experience. Now, whether it's interesting, whether it relates to your industry or not,

How the Right ABM Approach Can Increase Influence and Create Greater Wins It seems to be a buzzword in B2B marketing recently: account-based marketing, or ABM. But what is the right ABM approach that will help B2B firms to generate greater returns? We have an engaging conversation about this with Kristina Jaramillo (President, Personal ABM). During our discussion, Kristina talks about what a lot of organizations are getting wrong with ABM, some of the key things that they need to consider when investing in ABM, what has changed in the landscape as a result of the pandemic, and how organizations should build alignment in order to drive ABM success.Topics discussed in this episode: ABM is an integrated business strategy instead of a tactic to drive leads. [1:46]How most organizations are approaching ABM ineffectively. [10:57]Campaign-focused vs. interactions-focusedPersonalized vs. personalABM that is tactical and lead basedContent that fails to build a business caseHow to build a strong foundation for ABM. [21:32]Focus on your Ideal Customer Profile (ICP)Have specific named accounts to close, protect or expandConsider the journeys that your ICP goes through [22:59]The Challenger Sales approach [29:13]Companies & links mentioned in this episode:Kristina Jaramillo Personal ABM Stop the Sales DropTerminus DemandbaseLatane Conant, CMO of 6senseThe Challenger Sale book TranscriptSPEAKERSChristian Klepp, Kristina JaramilloChristian Klepp  00:08Hi, and welcome to the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast. I'm your host, Christian Klepp, and one of the founders of EINBLICK Consulting. Our goal is to share inspirational stories, tips and insights from b2b marketers, digital entrepreneurs, and industry experts that will help you to think differently, succeed and scale your business.Okay. Welcome everyone to this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast where you get your weekly dose of b2b marketing insights. This is your host, Christian Klepp. And today, I'd like to welcome a guest into the show who works with supply chain and tech marketers to add a personal account layer that enables them to influence revenue with new business and account expansion. So Kristina Jaramillo, welcome to the show.Kristina Jaramillo  00:53Thank you for having me, Christian. I really appreciate that. And thank you for pronouncing my name so eloquently. I love it.Christian Klepp  00:58Oh, you know, I try. (laugh) But no, Kristina. You know, I really enjoyed these conversations we've been having these past couple of weeks on various topics, and I'm really looking forward to this conversation.Kristina Jaramillo  01:13Yeah, me too.Christian Klepp  01:14So all right, well, let's get the show on the road, then. Um, you know, Kristina, you've developed your expertise and built your career around. I would say it's not just an important area, but it seems to be one of these buzzwords that's floating around in the world of b2b marketing these days. And that's ABM or Account Based Marketing. And I know you're gonna have a field day with this question, but walk us through what you believe ABM is and isn't.Kristina Jaramillo  01:41Sure, no problem! You had it me pegged. I love this question. (laugh)So I think ABM... should be an integrated business strategy. So it includes not just marketing. It should include sales, account management, customer success teams, anyone who's client facing as well work together to win, protect and expand key named accounts that can provide the organization with the greatest revenue growth rate, greatest... you know, return. And but what I've seen it rather than being a business strategy... in a lot of cases, it's become another tactic, just to drive leads. So we're all focused on marketing, a lot of people tend to be focused on just leads, but I think it should be about driving revenue with new accounts, and even more revenue with existing accounts.And, you know,

13So God said to Noah, “I am going to put an end to all people, for the earth is filled with violence because of them. I am surely going to destroy both them and the earth. 14So make yourself an ark of cypress wood; make rooms in it and coat it with pitch inside and […]

Key 4: I must see myself through my knew identity in Christ Matt 16:13-20 When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”14So they said, “Some say John the Baptist, some Elijah, and others Jeremiah or one of the prophets.”15He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”16Simon Peter answered and said, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”17Jesus answered and said to him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven. 18And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not [g]prevail against it. 19And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth [h]will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.”20Then He commanded His disciples that they should tell no one that He was Jesus the Christ.II Corinthians 5:16-18 Therefore, from now on, we regard no one according to the flesh. Even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know Him thus no longer. 17Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new. 18Now all things are of God, who has reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and has given us the ministry of reconciliation, Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/Keepingitbiblical?fan_landing=true)

B2B Sales: Create Success with Trust, Credibility, and by Asking Better Questions This week’s episode is packed with incredible insights and tips that everyone in the sales profession can immediately implement, even if they don’t have many years of experience. We had the opportunity to sit down with Marcus Chan (President & Founder, Venli Consulting Group) to talk about some of the greatest challenges that B2B salespeople face, why they should resist the temptation to automatically “pitch” prospects, and why it’s crucial to be positioned as an expert and ask better questions.Topics discussed in this episode: Marcus shares the 8 core principles that have allowed him to achieve sales results that others didn’t believe was possible. [13:14]Marcus shares an example of how he continuously refines his sales approach by doing A|B testing. [22:26]How we can all learn from the best and achieve similar results through behavior modelling. [39:39]The key to succeed and to prepare for what’s coming next is to have AQ - you need to look for ways to stand out and warm your audience up. [42:04]Marcus shares his SEO strategy with the “LinkedIn Stories”. [48:13 / 49:28]Resources & links mentioned in this episode:Marcus Chan on LinkedInMarcus Chan’s resourcesRevGeniusTranscriptSPEAKERSChristian Klepp, Marcus ChanChristian Klepp  00:08Hi, and welcome to the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast. I'm your host, Christian Klepp, and one of the founders of EINBLICK Consulting. Our goal is to share inspirational stories, tips and insights from b2b marketers, digital entrepreneurs, and industry experts that will help you think differently, succeed and scale your business.Christian Klepp  00:28Alright, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to this episode of the B2B Marketers on a Mission podcast. I'm your host, Christian Klepp. And today I have a special guest on the show. That I've had the pleasure of meeting through a growing and very dynamic online community called RevGenius. And we of course, have also been corresponding on LinkedIn. He's a passionate entrepreneur, a talented b2b sales professional. And believe me when I say he puts the P in perseverance. Okay, so drumroll please. Mr. Marcus Chan, welcome to the show.Marcus Chan  01:01Hey, happy to be here! That was a legit drumroll. Right? That's awesome! That's amazing,Christian Klepp  01:09My friend. I'm gonna get a gong for you next time. All right. But in the meantime, a drumroll will have to do. So Um, dude, it is so great to have you on the show.Christian Klepp  01:18It's my absolute pleasure, man. I'm excited to be here.Christian Klepp  01:21Fantastic. So um, Let's get this party started. And you know, just give us a little bit of background, you know, tell us about yourself.Marcus Chan  01:28Yeah, man. Absolutely. Right. So I'm based out here in Portland, Oregon, on the west coast of the United States. So, you know, I've been in b2b sales for 14+ years, right. So I actually started at the very bottom, outside B2B building a startup from ground zero. I was really fortunate, did quite well, you know, rose the ranks pretty quickly, got promoted multiple times, you know, to the point of leaving that company going somewhere else in which I was in Alaska for 9 years, and had a lot of success there as well, to a point of running a sales org about 100+ employees, doing multiple nine figures a year in revenue, so a lot of fun. And then from that point, I decided to leave corporate America and start my own business.Marcus Chan  02:14So now, I'm a founder of Venli Consulting Group, and I work directly with b2b sales professionals, help them sell more and earn more without needing years of experience. And I've just got over my one year anniversary, it's been an absolute incredible journey so far.Christian Klepp  02:27Boom, that is quite an incredible background you've got there, man. And you know, you've undoubtedly gained so much in terms of experience and, you know,

As a small, creative business, creating your brand identity can feel overwhelming or intimidating. Not knowing where to start or what to consider, especially when you know that consistency is so important for brands, can hold you back from building your brand and getting your business going. To help you break free from that uncertainty, this article is your fundamental guide to all of the things you need to consider in order to create an unforgettable brand!Read the accompanying blog post at https://www.blackandwhitestudios.nz/blogTimestampsIntroduction: 00:42Before you create your brand identity…: 01:14So, what goes into building a brand identity?: 02:00Logo: 02:13Colors: 03:07Typography: 04:36Patterns: 06:07Icons: 06:40Illustrations: 07:30Photography: 08:14Animation: 09:38Music: 10:35Wrap up: 11:47Ready to start building your brand today? Download my Ultimate Branding Checklist here: http://bit.ly/ultimatebrandingchecklistTag me on Instagram and let me know you're listening: https://www.instagram.com/blckwhtstudios/

1 Peter 1:13-16 NLTSo prepare your minds for action and exercise self-control. Put all your hope in the gracious salvation that will come to you when Jesus Christ is revealed to the world. 14So you must live as God’s obedient children. Don’t slip back into your old ways of living to satisfy your own desires. You didn’t know any better then. 15But now you must be holy in everything you do, just as God who chose you is holy. 16For the Scriptures say, “You must be holy because I am holy.”Support the show (https://www.patreon.com/yourdailybible)

Eph 6 10What else is there to say? Just this: be strong in the Lord, and in the strength of his power. 11Put on God's complete armour. Then you'll be able to stand firm against the devil's trickery. 12The warfare we're engaged in, you see, isn't against flesh and blood. It's against the leaders, against the authorities, against the powers that rule the world in this dark age, against the wicked spiritual elements in the heavenly places. 13For this reason, you must take up God's complete armour. Then, when wickedness grabs its moment, you'll be able to withstand, to do what needs to be done, and still to be on your feet when it's all over. 14So stand firm! Put the belt of truth round your waist; put on justice as your breastplate; 15for shoes on your feet, ready for battle, take the good news of peace. 16With it all, take the shield of faith; if you've got that, you'll be able to quench all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17Take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the spirit, which is God's word. Prayer and peace 18Pray on every occasion in the spirit, with every type of prayer and intercession. You'll need to keep awake and alert for this, with all perseverance and intercession for all God's holy ones – 19and also for me! Please pray that God will give me his words to speak when I open my mouth, so that I can make known, loud and clear, the secret truth of the gospel. The Bible for Everyone: A New Translation . SPCK. Kindle Edition. Be thou a bright flame before me, Be thou a guiding star above me Be thou a smooth path below me Be thou a kindly shepherd behind me Today - tonight -forever Amen. St Columba

Transcription:James Linder 0:03Every health system is looking at their labor stack if you will. Who does what work? How is work getting done? How's the care provided? So I do believe we will get to a different care delivery model than we had in December of 2019. And hopefully, that will be better for the patients and be more efficient economically.Gary Bisbee 0:23That was Dr. James Linder, CEO of Nebraska Medicine, discussing how the COVID crisis will lead to a new delivery model to provide more convenient and efficient care for the patient. I'm Gary Bisbee. And this is Fireside Chat. Dr. Linder has a storied career at the University of Nebraska, including being interim president, a long term faculty appointment as Professor of pathology and microbiology, and his current appointment as CEO of Nebraska Medicine. Dr. Linder is a long-standing entrepreneur with a broad range of interests. Let's listen to Dr. Linder respond to a question about the public health infrastructure and its importance to national security.James Linder 1:05The pandemic has illustrated the fact that robust public health infrastructure is essential for not only the health of individuals but the health of the economy. It's not nice to have, you really need a strong public health infrastructure. And I think every city-state and the federal government has underfunded that for many years because it's not a glamorous activity. Hopefully, people have learned from this pandemic that proper investments and public health are essential.Gary Bisbee 1:37Our conversation includes Dr. Linder discussing a leader's most important characteristic in times of crisis, Nebraska medicine, economics, what he likes most about Nebraska, and the role of the Nebraska medicine biocontainment unit that received early COVID patients from the west coast. I'm delighted to welcome Dr. James Linder to the microphone.Well, good afternoon, Jim, and welcome.James Linder 2:03Thank you very much, Gary, I'm delighted to be with you on this podcast.Gary Bisbee 2:06We're pleased to have you at the microphone for sure. It's always interesting to learn about our guests. You're Midwesterner born in Nebraska and have been at the University of Nebraska in one form or another for quite a while. What do you like best about the Midwest?James Linder 2:21As you say, I was born and raised here. And I guess I could say I like the seasons to some extent, and I certainly like working with the people. I've had just great professional interactions since I joined the faculty here in Nebraska in 1983.Gary Bisbee 2:37For those of us that aren't familiar with Nebraska, how would you describe Nebraskans?James Linder 2:43Well, I would say we're the well-deserved brunt of many jokes. You know, it's like a study, in contrast, it's a very agricultural state with expanses of land with very few people. So we've been practicing social distancing since 1869. Then we also some major metropolitan areas with huge businesses with Fortune 500 companies. So it's a nice contrast that appeals to many people.Gary Bisbee 3:12What would be the distinctive feature of Omaha as a city other than there are these four companies and Nebraska medicine and so on, but how would you describe Omaha to somebody that was not familiar with it?James Linder 3:25I'd probably still describe it as a big town as opposed to a city, which is a little unfair since the metropolitan area has close to seven or 800,000 people, but it's a community I think, where people do still know each other, they interact a lot of farmers markets, cultural events, and everything is accessible. And I lived in the Boston area for a while for work. It was very hard to go to a show because of just the logistics of traveling and parking, whereas in Omaha, you can still enjoy those things.Gary Bisbee 3:57Now our listeners wouldn't forgive me if I didn't ask the obvious question. Do you know Warren Buffet? And do you run into him at all?James Linder 4:05I do know, Mr. Buffett. We have run into each other on a few social events. And he's a very private individual. And I think everyone in Omaha respects that. I've been in restaurants where he's been at a table and no other people walk up to him to start conversations. They're very grateful for what he's done for the community and for all the investors in Berkshire Hathaway, but he enjoys his private life. And a favorite story about Mr. Buffett, I actually when I was a younger person, saw him in a hardware store looking for a part on his own, and walked around some aisle and there's Warren Buffett. I didn't have the foresight then to ask him for investment. My wife Karen actually did write a book on the women executives who served Berkshire Hathaway for many years. And in doing that, we learned quite a bit about the company and its success.Gary Bisbee 4:59That sounds like a must-read and maybe the next podcast interview would be with Karen, but on to you. When did you decide on medicine?James Linder 5:07Well, I was an undergraduate biochemistry major Iowa State and was actually pursuing a PhD program in the 1970s. And unfortunately, that time, getting a PhD in biochemistry was a ticket to the unemployment line. And I decided that I could be a very good researcher with a MD degree, as well as a PhD degree. So that really drove my choice of medicine. And some of you may know that I'm a pathologist by training. And pathology is more of basic science. So that was kind of in line with my research interests.Gary Bisbee 5:40You've held a variety of positions at Nebraska, including interim president in the university and certainly been a professor of pathology microbiology for quite a while and currently CEO in Nebraska medicine. What were the circumstances that resulted in your being appointed interim president?James Linder 5:58I was working in the university prior to that time leading to technology development. And that was because I had worked in industry for about 12 years. And so I had a good sense of tech transfer. And when the president of the university took a position at the City University of New York, he recommends that I'd be one of the candidates for that consideration, simply because we had worked together at the system level. The University of Nebraska has four different campuses. So it has quite an expanse throughout the state.Gary Bisbee 6:31How long were you interim President, then?James Linder 6:33So luckily, I had to get out of jail free card. My agreement specified that I could not be a candidate. The search concluded after one year, and so I had a full year of all the things that you would have as a university president, including an occasional athletic department, controversy or two, but then when the year ended, they had a good candidate who followed me who was dedicated to being a university president. He took that job on.Gary Bisbee 6:58If you could focus on one thing that you learned as President of the University of Nebraska during that year, what would it be?James Linder 7:05I would say that it is a learning that I've tried to carry all my life is that if you have people who are working for you or with you, let them do their jobs, don't try and do their jobs. Because the reason that they are a dean or department chair or Chancellor is to lead their faculty and their employees. And I think that's always been a valuable lesson. I've applied in different roles. I was the Dean of medicine for a while and I left the chairs to do their job. And as CEO, I let my chiefs and divisional leaders do their jobs, that's why they're there to do the best job possible.Gary Bisbee 7:43That's a good transition to the current role you're holding, which is CEO of Nebraska Medicine. What were the circumstances, Jim, to your being appointed to Nebraska medicine? You were sitting on the Nebraska medicine board at the time. But what were the circumstances underlying your appointment?James Linder 8:01I was on the Nebraska medicine board and clearly had no aspiration or even concept that I was qualified to be the CEO of the health system. But the board asked me to assume that leadership role and I talked to my wife and she thought I was being a little underutilized at that time since I had finished the university presidency. And I thought it'd be a good experience.Gary Bisbee 8:26So you agreed to do it. And you've been CEO now for about two years. What have you learned as CEO that you didn't realize when you were sitting on the board of Nebraska medicine?James Linder 8:39I think the greatest thing I came to realize both as a board member and as a physician practice at this hospital for decades, was how incredibly complex it is to deliver patient care at a high level. It's really, as all the other CEOs listening know, you're running basically a hotel, restaurant, Critical Care Service and emergency room. It's a very complex business. And each day when we have our daily shout out here 30 different departments report. And if anyone of them has a problem, say pharmacy, it dramatically impacts the rest of the health system.Gary Bisbee 9:17Most people don't realize that you're also a highly successful entrepreneur. When did that interest develop?James Linder 9:25It probably grew mostly out of my experience in the industry. I began working for a company part-time, and in the mid-90s. That was based on some of the academic work I'd done. And at the same time, I retained my faculty employment. But in doing that, we were forced to innovate new products, we had the opportunity to look at partner companies for either acquisition or other relationships. And it really gave me direct exposure to business and business development. So when I came back to Nebraska. I was actually leading the technology transfer office at the Medical Center for a while. And in doing that was active and trying to build commercial activities out of some of our intellectual property.Gary Bisbee 10:14So what are your current entrepreneurial interests, Jim?James Linder 10:17Well, for 10 years my wife and I have operated an angel investment fund called Linseed capital. And I think we invested in about 30 companies. And all of those have been great experiences because we live vicariously through the founders. Clearly, not all of them have been successful. But we've had great learnings from dealing with those people. And then for about the last five years, my wife and I have been operating, she more than me, a company that does ceramic 3d printing. And we were attracted to that because of potential medical applications. And that's been true, but then there are also great uses for ceramics and other industries.Gary Bisbee 10:59A very Interesting life you live, Dr. Linder. Why don't we move to Nebraska Medicine? Can you describe Nebraska medicine?James Linder 11:07Well, at Nebraska medicine we are the primary teaching hospital for the University of Nebraska Medical Center. We are a free-standing entity that has its own governing board. We don't report directly to the state of Nebraska. We operate to hospitals, approximately 800 licensed beds. And during the course of a typical year, we'll have around 34,000 visits, 95,000 emergency room visits, and 74 clinics that accommodate probably a million clinic visits. So we're small compared to many larger academic medical centers and health systems, but really ethically share some of the same opportunities and problems.Gary Bisbee 11:47What about the culture? How would you describe the culture of Nebraska Medicine?James Linder 11:51I would say it is targeted toward getting things done doing the right thing. Innovation, teamwork, the pursuit of excellence. wants courage and healing which are embodied in our values. People work really well together.Gary Bisbee 12:05Nebraska medicine received one of the early COVID patients, as I recall, share with us why Nebraska medicine would have received those early patients?James Linder 12:15It's a very good question. And it underscores a comment that Steve Jobs made and a commencement address at Stanford, that you can only connect the dots backward. And if you look back to 2004, a decision was made to establish and biocontainment unit at the University Nebraska Medical Center. It sat unused for 10 years, but every month, the staff in that unit practiced donning and doffing and taking care of highly infectious patients. Then in 2014, we had of course, the Ebola crisis that led to people receiving care in the US, and Nebraska medicine took care of the majority of those patients. After that, experience it was recognized that the country in the world needed training and dealing with highly infectious diseases. So over the next five years, we participated in training thousands of military and civilian personnel in the country and actually established the global center for infectious disease on our campus. And it was that center that was activated when the patients from the diamond princess cruise ship, were returned to the US who were COVID positive. And we monitored some of those who are not too ill in isolation and then provided care for the others.Gary Bisbee 13:35Definitely an interesting story. Let's move to COVID a little bit more in a moment. There's been obviously social unrest around the country. Sounds like Omaha has had its share. How would you describe that Jim and how has it affected Nebraska Medicine?James Linder 13:53Omaha has had a share of an appropriate share, I would add of concern over the disparities that exist both economically for people of color and in healthcare access. And our physicians and nurses have stood with those individuals. There was an event just on Friday, where hundreds of healthcare professionals knelt in a moment of silence to recognize the problems that our country is now dealing with. When I communicate to our staff, I emphasize that we cannot solve problems on a national level. But locally, we can do a lot to impact in a positive way the lives of people who would like education and healthcare, would like to add this as a career. And certainly dealing with the healthcare disparities, making sure that everybody has access to screening and care in the state.Gary Bisbee 14:47Well said let's turn if we could to the COVID crisis, how has the surge progressed in Nebraska and particularly for Nebraska Medicine?James Linder 14:57if I had to use a term, I would say a Rising Tide as opposed to a tidal wave. We began preparing for a surge, probably in February, maybe March. And that was based on some of the modelings we had seen, that could affect our estate. And either because of social distancing or other factors, we didn't see that spike in impatience. But we've seen a steady climb and the number of COVID-19 patients we're caring for, typically 10% to 15% of our inpatient census, I pointed out to people that during this entire preparation for the surge, more than 90% of patients that we care for either in our ambulatory clinics or the hospital are the routine issues of heart attacks and cancer and neurologic disease that require our attention. So you're ramping up to do something totally different taking care of patients, while at the same time you have to deliver excellent care for everyone else.Gary Bisbee 15:55Shortage of PPE has been all around the country, particularly those in the midst of the surges, how has PPE been for Nebraska medicine?James Linder 16:07In general, we had adequate supplies. And that is partly because of the position we sat in the country of being prepared to take care of large numbers of patients who might be ill with an infectious disease. We did pioneer early on the UV decontamination of N95 masks, which allowed an individual to use his or her mask over say three times. We also thought a lot about innovation. Our teams put together ways for droplets that might arise from having nasal canula in place, using shields that could protect anesthesiologists and a lot of environmental controls to make sure that health care workers are not affected.Gary Bisbee 16:52There's been a lot of discussion about the role that the federal government ought to play for stockpiling PPE. How do you think about that, Jim?James Linder 17:02Well, it's a question of when you're doing it. If you're doing it prior to a pandemic, it's a wonderful thing. That way, health systems can equitably access those resources. Yes, the federal government is competing against health systems to buy PPE during a time where you're trying to secure for your own patient care needs, and there isn't a system to equitably distributed and that can cause problemsGary Bisbee 17:29How about the state of Nebraska? Is the state of Nebraska have any stockpiling of PPE?James Linder 17:35The state of Nebraska has been a very good partner for Nebraska medicine from the onset of the pandemic. Our staff here at UMC have worked with the six different regions in the state to try and make sure that people were educated on protocols and as much PP was available as possible. So we did have some state resources we drew on some of the resources that existed at Nebraska Medicine to make sure that the hospitals and nursing homes could actually deliver the care in a safe way. pp is just an amazing tool for controlling the pandemic. We have had no health care workers that have become infected when properly using PPE that's since January of this year. Now I'm knocking on wood here because we could always have a mistake tomorrow. But we made use of PPE extenders to make sure that our individuals were in the care setting or properly putting on and taking off their PPE so that did not accidentally contaminate cells.Gary Bisbee 18:39Jim, how about telemedicine? It has exploded in virtually every health system in the country. How about Nebraska Medicine?James Linder 18:47It has likewise seen a dramatic increase. In the last month, we had some days where there were more telemedicine visits than there were in-person visits. And so if there is ever a silver lining from this pandemic It is illustrated that patients like telemedicine. Physicians can practice high-quality telehealth remotely. And it is a real plus for healthcare Also consider the fact in a rural state like Nebraska, it can enable care to populations that otherwise may not get it. So I think that organized medicine should work hard with the federal government and insurance carriers to make sure that the reimbursement for telehealth services is appropriate.Gary Bisbee 19:29If the reimbursement is appropriate, do you think that this increased usage will continue or even grow?James Linder 19:35I think it will continue. I think it will require our health systems to rethink how they engage patients. So we may have diagnostic centers where blood draws could happen. And imaging studies could be done here, before or after the telehealth visit. So all that information is there. And then I think you'll see some services that have not been adequately served in the country such as in-cancer screening, that will grow tremendously because the paucity of dermatologists and many communities has led to a deficit in screening for skin cancer. And I think that can be resolved by telehealth. So the CMS and the states issued waivers pretty early on. Was that particularly helpful? I think that the waivers that were issued were helpful, and I think that we should look carefully at how that has impacted care. And when it's improved care, we should look for those waivers to be made permanent so that it is part of the ongoing provision of care. how do you think about social distancing with let's say your amatory care,Gary Bisbee 20:40How do you think about social distancing with let's say your ambulatory care, waiting areas will there need to be new planning to accommodate social distancing?James Linder 20:51The point you bring up is very important. A lot of the ambulatory care areas if you think of how they were historically patients would come in, they would be given a clipboard and they'd fill out several pages of answering questions. And that does not lend itself to good social distancing. So with the digital front door, if you will, that we've developed with our Nebraska medicine app, which is similar to what many other health systems use, those questions can be answered before the patient comes in. So literally, they show up for their 10 o'clock appointment can be seen immediately in the exam room where they're scheduled to be seen. We've taken the position that all of our providers in the ambulatory setting do wear masks. We provide masks to patients when they come in if they don't have their own. We think that the physical barrier the mask is essential for limiting the spread of the virus.Gary Bisbee 21:45How about rebooting surgeries Have you begun to institute surgeries now?James Linder 21:52We began doing "elective surgeries" when it was permitted by the state surgeries that were required for life and limb, even during the onset of the pandemic we did. The things that could be postponed for four to six weeks were postponed. And we began doing those largely limited by the availability of staff as opposed to our time. Then we found, as I'm sure many other CEOs have taken care of patients who have COVID-19 infections as a significant burden on your critical care, faculty, and staff, whether they're anesthesiologists or pulmonologists and that has limited our ability to staff some of those procedural areas. But we're gradually getting back up to the neighborhood of 80%.Gary Bisbee 22:42COVID has accelerated the timeline for discovery in many cases, vaccines, drugs, devices, as you've pointed out innovations that Nebraska medicine will that accelerate to provider delivery cycles in a commencer Why do you think Jim?James Linder 22:59I think every health system is looking at their labor stack if you will. Who does what work? How is work getting done, how's the care provided? So I do believe we will get to a different care delivery model than we had in December of 2019. And hopefully, that will be better for the patients and be more efficient economically.Gary Bisbee 23:20Let's go to the economics of this, which is not a pretty picture for any of our health systems. How will this COVID outbreak affect and Nebraska medicines finances in 2020?James Linder 23:33Well, for fiscal year 20, we will incur probably a modest financial loss. We were in a fairly strong position, coming into say April this year, but April, May, and June will all be actual negative, if you will. We made the decision early on to not furlough any of our employees. And we had the luxury of doing that because we had sufficient days of cash on hand that we felt we could absorb that law. We also thought that those colleagues would be essential for the recovery of our activities in June, July, and August. But still, it's going to be a difficult year. And it will require some innovation and work on part of everyone to make sure that we can deliver care in an efficient way and make sure patients feel comfortable coming back to the clinics in the hospital.Gary Bisbee 24:23There's a lot of fear out there. Probably 40% of individuals are reluctant to come into a healthcare setting. How are you dealing with that? Are you trying to communicate with the community about that, Jim?James Linder 24:35I believe that the most effective way is direct conversations with the individuals who normally would schedule those patients, making sure that they are aware of the safety precautions in place for their well being. And I make the point that Nebraska medicine was one of the most advanced facilities in the country or the world in dealing with the patient who had an infection. Likewise, the safety protocols we put in place, I think are strong, supportive, and safe for the patient. Fear is fear though. And it does take repeating that message many times over.Gary Bisbee 25:11Yeah, I'm sure. Well, let's hope we don't have another wave in the fall as some are predicting. How are you expecting the payer mix to change?James Linder 25:19Well, I think the payer mix will change in a couple of different ways. In Nebraska, we're finally getting to a point of Medicaid expansion. So we will be reimbursed for Medicaid from sources we did not have access to before. And then I think on the national scene, there will probably be the ongoing juggling of different payers. They probably had a very strong third and fourth quarter because of the fact that many elective procedures were postponed, but there'll be rethinking about how they want to support healthcare and there could be federal legislation as well that affects the payment of services.Gary Bisbee 26:00Turning to leadership. I think we all agree leadership is always important, particularly in times of crisis. What characteristics do you think a top leader ought to have during a crisis?Jim Linder 26:12Calm. That answer may be too brief, but I think it's essential. I think you have to analyze the situation you're in, get input from people who are at the front line and be calm as you'd help guide people through the decision making.Gary Bisbee 26:25Yep. As I've asked other CEOs, that's a frequent answer. So you all have that experience. Let's go to the health infrastructure, it seems clear that public health is more part of the national security than we might have thought in the past. How do you think about that, Jim?James Linder 26:45I think that the pandemic has illustrated the fact that a robust public health infrastructure is essential for not only the health of individuals but the health of the economy. It's not nice to have. You really need a strong public health infrastructure. And I think every city, state and federal government has underfunded that for many years because it's not a glamorous activity. Hopefully, people have learned from this pandemic that proper investments and public health are essential.Gary Bisbee 27:17I totally agree with that. And it seems like it's up to us to continue to push that ball forward, or it runs a risk of being forgotten. Again, Jim, this has been a terrific interview. I'd like to ask one last question if I could. We've been talking about the new normal, off and on now for a couple of months. What do you think would characterize a new normal?James Linder 27:40I think we have to acknowledge the fact that the diseases that plague people before the pandemic continue to exist. And we have to figure out a way to deliver care to those individuals in a way that's safe, while at the same time meeting our challenging requirement of providing care for Cova 19 patients for at least the next year. We think that probably 10% of our hospital occupancy will be of that realm. Then, relative to your public health question, I think the more that we are engaged in communities, making sure people are healthy, making sure that there are not health disparities and access and care. I will have a healthier community overall, and just make the country a better place.Gary Bisbee 28:25Jim, excellent interview. Thanks so much for your time today much appreciated.James Linder 28:29My pleasure.Gary Bisbee 28:31This episode of Fireside Chat is produced by Strafire. Please subscribe to Fireside Chat on Apple Podcasts or wherever you're listening right now. Be sure to rate and review fireside chat so we can continue to explore key issues with innovative and dynamic healthcare leaders. In addition to subscribing and rating, we have found that podcasts are known through word of mouth. We appreciate your spreading the word to friends or those who might be interested. Fireside Chat is brought to you from our nation's capital in Washington DC, where we explore the intersection of healthcare politics, financing, and delivery. For additional perspectives on health policy and leadership. Read my weekly blog Bisbee's Brief. For questions and suggestions about Fireside Chat, contact me through our website, firesidechatpodcast.com, or gary@hmacademy.com. Thanks for listening. 

The Flight to Egypt 13When the Magi had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up!” he said. “Take the Child and His mother and flee to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the Child to kill Him.” 14So he got up, took the Child and His mother by night, and withdrew to Egypt, 15where he stayed until the death of Herod. This fulfilled what the Lord had spoken through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”c Weeping and Great Mourning 16When Herod saw that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was filled with rage. Sending orders, he put to death all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, according to the time he had learned from the Magi. 17Then what was spoken through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled: 18“A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more.”d The Return to Nazareth 19After Herod died, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt. 20“Get up!” he said. “Take the Child and His mother and go to the land of Israel, for those seeking the Child's life are now dead.” 21So Joseph got up, took the Child and His mother, and went to the land of Israel. 22But when he learned that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, 23and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophets: “He will be called a Nazarene.”

The Flight to Egypt 13When the Magi had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up!” he said. “Take the Child and His mother and flee to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the Child to kill Him.” 14So he got up, took the Child and His mother by night, and withdrew to Egypt, 15where he stayed until the death of Herod. This fulfilled what the Lord had spoken through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called My Son.”c Weeping and Great Mourning 16When Herod saw that he had been outwitted by the Magi, he was filled with rage. Sending orders, he put to death all the boys in Bethlehem and its vicinity who were two years old and under, according to the time he had learned from the Magi. 17Then what was spoken through the prophet Jeremiah was fulfilled: 18“A voice is heard in Ramah, weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and refusing to be comforted, because they are no more.”d The Return to Nazareth 19After Herod died, an angel of the Lord appeared in a dream to Joseph in Egypt. 20“Get up!” he said. “Take the Child and His mother and go to the land of Israel, for those seeking the Child's life are now dead.” 21So Joseph got up, took the Child and His mother, and went to the land of Israel. 22But when he learned that Archelaus was reigning in Judea in place of his father Herod, he was afraid to go there. And having been warned in a dream, he withdrew to the district of Galilee, 23and he went and lived in a town called Nazareth. So was fulfilled what was spoken through the prophets: “He will be called a Nazarene.”

"You're still single?!" Oh, the joyous question you may have been asked over the holidays by your aunt Karen. Or maybe you're feeling like there are other milestones or desires in life that you're waiting for or missing out on? In this episode, our feisty friend Haley joins the podcast to take on these hard questions and shares her current journey of finding fulfillment in God as she lives her best life: with confidence, faith and contentment. About the Speaker:Haley Schultz is 26 years old and lives in Sunny San Diego California. She currently works full time as the Communications Officer for HOPE worldwide. Her other talents include photography, social media management and web design. In her spare time she loves hanging out with her friends, traveling, eating great food and drinking lots of coffee. She is currently single and advocates for living an exciting, fulfilled life with or with out a spouse, although she hopes to be married someday! She embraces a passion in life to love her God, her family and her friends with everything she has and to always see the optimistic side of life! Episode Notes:First I had to realize that there’s nothing wrong with being single and second that God isn’t holding out on me. 2 Corinthians 12:7Romans 3:23Is God enough for you?How can we grow in our contentment?We have to remember that we cannot earn any of our blessings. 2 Corinthians 5:14So here are the key things I learned on this journey to really believing and trusting that God is enough. 1. The first key thing that I focused on was what I can do with my life instead of trying to be worthy of the blessing I wanted. The most important thing I can do as a woman is fulfill the greatest commandment. (Matthew 22:38)Luke 6:38 & Proverbs 11:252. The next key is that I want to strive to be the best version of myself I can be for God. Matthew 6:333. The last key thing we can do and what I may argue is the most important, is pray like the persistent widow. (Luke 18) Even when things don’t feel good, God always is."The more we celebrate in life, the more there is to celebrate." -OPRAH! 1 Timothy 6:6Support the show (https://tithe.ly/give_new/www/#/tithely/give-one-time/678206?giving_to=Woven%20In%20Truth%20Podcast)

Samaria the capital of Israel’s northern kingdom was under siege. Ben-hadad, the Syrian king and his powerful army’s presence had resulted in a disastrous famine. Israel’s king was walking along a wall when a woman cried out to him for help. His answer expressed his sense of utter helplessness. I quoted from the New Living translation, but the Aramean is translated in most places as Syrian.  2 Kings 6 & 7 NLT He answered, “If the LORD doesn’t help you, what can I do? I have neither food from the threshing floor nor wine from the press to give you.” 28But then the king asked, “What is the matter?” She told a story of cannibalization that drove the heartbreaking truth of desperation like an arrow into his heart. 30When the king heard this, he tore his clothes in despair. And as the king walked along the wall, the people could see that he was wearing burlap under his robe next to his skin. Burlap In the Bible, whenever someone sought God with ardent desperation through prayer and fasting, they would put on burlap as a sign of their humility. 31“May God strike me and even kill me if I don’t separate Elisha’s head from his shoulders this very day,” the king vowed. I can only guess at why the king would blame Elisha for this nightmarish situation, but Elisha wasn’t the problem. Playing the blame game started with the first sin and has been repeated again and again when a person is confronted with a problem or a sinful consequence. You can't win shifting the blame. The king backed up his vow with a personal visit to Elisha’s house and his personal assistant. 32Elisha was sitting in his house with the elders of Israel when the king sent a messenger to summon him. But before the messenger arrived, Elisha said to the elders, “A murderer has sent a man to cut off my head. When he arrives, shut the door and keep him out. We will soon hear his master’s steps following him.” 33While Elisha was still saying this, the messenger arrived. And the king said, “All this misery is from the LORD! Why should I wait for the LORD any longer?” Chapter 7 NLT 1 Elisha replied, “Listen to this message from the LORD! This is what the LORD says: By this time tomorrow in the markets of Samaria, six quarts of choice flour will cost only one piece of silver, and twelve quarts of barley grain will cost only one piece of silver.” 1 Kings 6 describes the scarcity of food by explaining what is available and how expensive it is; the price of a donkey head cost 80 pieces of silver and a cup of dove’s dung for 5 pieces of silver. In the midst of this kind of scarcity Elisha announces the availability of choice flour and barley grain. But not just availability, he is also communicating that the flour and barley will be available in abundance by telling how much it would cost…6 quarts of fine flour or 12 quarts of barley grain for 1 piece of silver. 2The officer assisting the king said to the man of God, “That couldn’t happen even if the LORD opened the windows of heaven!” But Elisha replied, “You will see it happen with your own eyes, but you won’t be able to eat any of it!” 3Now there were four men with leprosy sitting at the entrance of the city gates. “Why should we sit here waiting to die?” they asked each other. 4“We will starve if we stay here, but with the famine in the city, we will starve if we go back there. So we might as well go out and surrender to the Aramean army. If they let us live, so much the better. But if they kill us, we would have died anyway.” What a hopeless situation! Or so it seemed. The was really true. If they sat where they were they would die! It was hopeless ONLY if they did nothing. They had no idea what God would do.   5So at twilight they set out for the camp of the Arameans. But when they came to the edge of the camp, no one was there! 6For the Lord had caused the Aramean army to hear the clatter of speeding chariots and the galloping of horses and the sounds of a great army approaching. “The king of Israel has hired the Hittites and Egyptians to attack us!” they cried to one another. 7So they panicked and ran into the night, abandoning their tents, horses, donkeys, and everything else, as they fled for their lives. I just love this part of the story! This is a perfect picture of a boomerang. Intimidation had been a powerful tactic of this army, now God was using sound to intimidate them. Please dear friend, stop allowing intimidation to stop you. It is a strategy of hell to stop you from doing what God has called you to do; to keep you from believing God for your family; to rob you from the victory God has promised you. I want to remind you that no weapon that is formed against you will prosper. 8When the men with leprosy arrived at the edge of the camp, they went into one tent after another, eating and drinking wine; and they carried off silver and gold and clothing and hid it. 9Finally, they said to each other, “This is not right. This is a day of good news, and we aren’t sharing it with anyone! If we wait until morning, some calamity will certainly fall upon us. Come on, let’s go back and tell the people at the palace.” 10So they went back to the city and told the gatekeepers what had happened. “We went out to the Aramean camp,” they said, “and no one was there! The horses and donkeys were tethered and the tents were all in order, but there wasn’t a single person around!” 11Then the gatekeepers shouted the news to the people in the palace. The King didn't believe 12The king got out of bed in the middle of the night and told his officers, “I know what has happened. The Arameans know we are starving, so they have left their camp and have hidden in the fields. They are expecting us to leave the city, and then they will take us alive and capture the city.” 13One of his officers replied, “We had better send out scouts to check into this. Let them take five of the remaining horses. If something happens to them, it will be no worse than if they stay here and die with the rest of us.” 14So two chariots with horses were prepared, and the king sent scouts to see what had happened to the Aramean army. 15They went all the way to the Jordan River, following a trail of clothing and equipment that the Arameans had thrown away in their mad rush to escape. The scouts returned and told the king about it. Finally! 16Then the people of Samaria rushed out and plundered the Aramean camp. So it was true that six quarts of choice flour were sold that day for one piece of silver, and twelve quarts of barley grain were sold for one piece of silver, just as the LORD had promised. Just like God said. 17The king appointed his officer to control the traffic at the gate, but he was knocked down and trampled to death as the people rushed out. So everything happened exactly as the man of God had predicted when the king came to his house. What are we missing out on because we don’t believe? The king’s assistant missed out on the food, the bounty that the army left and his life. Isaiah 53:1 KJV Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?   John 12 tells us the story of an excited crowd that greeted Jesus as he rode into Jerusalem on a donkey. Verse 17 explains that many of the people in the crowd had seen Jesus call Lazarus from the tomb and raise him from the dead. They were telling others what Jesus had done, so crowds of people wanted to see Jesus too. In this context Jesus prophesied his death; then He exposes his heart in verse 27. “Now my soul is deeply troubled. Should I pray, ‘Father, save me from this hour’? But this is the very reason I came! 28Father, bring glory to your name.” Then a voice spoke from heaven, saying, “I have already brought glory to my name, and I will do so again.” 29When the crowd heard the voice, some thought it was thunder, while others declared an angel had spoken to him. 30Then Jesus told them, “The voice was for your benefit, not mine. God spoke from heaven to benefit them, to bolster their faith, to reveal Jesus to them. Part of the crowd explained it away as thunder. I've heard people explain way God's miracles.  Some of the more religious people passed it off as an angel speaking to Jesus. It was God, but many didn’t get the revelation of who Jesus was because they didn’t believe. Verse 37, But despite all the miraculous signs Jesus had done, most of the people still did not believe in him. 38This is exactly what Isaiah the prophet had predicted: “LORD, who has believed our message? To whom has the LORD revealed his powerful arm?”   Do we believe something simply because it is frequently repeated? Do we believe something because it sounds right to our ears? Or do we believe it because it IS TRUTH?                              John 14:6 NIV Jesus told him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me.   What about you, my dear friend, do you believe?   Lauren Dagle has captivated America’s hearts with her song, “You Say.” I would guess that you have heard it many times, but for illustration sake I want to describe what I see (Yes, see.) in her song. Lauren sings several truths that God says about a believer and then she sings a simple but game changing line…”I believe. I believe.” And I believe she really does believe what God says about her, that’s why her songs grips us like it does. But I’m talking to you today and I want to know about you…do you believe?   So one more time I repeat the words of the mighty profit Isaiah.  Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?   Let’s pray.      

In this episode of Beneath the Subsurface we turn back time with Daniel Orange, our ONE Partner for multibeam technology and seafloor mapping - and incredible storyteller - and Duncan Bate, our Director of Project Development in the Gulf of Mexico and Geosciences. Dan takes Duncan and Erica on an expansive journey through time to meet a special variety of archea that dwell in the impossible oases surrounding sea bottom vents. We also explore the relatively recent discoveries in geoscience leading to seafloor mapping and how seep hunting offshore can enrich the exploration process today. TABLE OF CONTENTS00:00 - Intro03:35 - What is a seep?09:06 - The impossible oasis11:45 - Chemotrophic life24:15 - Finding seeps26:51 - The invention of multibeam technology30:11 - Seep hunting with multibeam32:48 - Seismic vs. multibeam34:43 - Acquiring multibeam surveys44:32 - The importance of navigation46:20 - Water column anomalies49:12 - Seeps sampling and exploration56:23 - Multibeam targets59:12 - Multibeam strategy1:03:11 - Reservoir content1:06:44 - A piece of the puzzle1:10:21 - ConclusionEXPLORE MORE FROM THE EPISODELearn more about TGS in the Gulf of MexicoOtos MultibeamEPISODE TRANSCRIPTErica Conedera:00:00:12Hello and welcome to Beneath the Subsurface a podcast that explores the intersection of Geoscience and technology. From the Software Development Department here at TGS. I'm your host, Erica Conedera. For our fourth episode, we'll welcome a very special guest speaker who offers a uniquely broad perspective on the topic of sea floor mapping. We'll learn about the technology of multibeam surveys, why underwater oil seeps are the basis of life as we know it and how the answer to the age old question of which came first, the chicken or the egg is the Sun. I'm here today with Duncan Bate, our director of projects for the US and Gulf of Mexico. Do you want to go ahead and introduce yourself Duncan?Duncan Bate:00:00:56Sure, yeah, thanks. I basically look after the development of all new projects for TGS in the, in the Gulf of Mexico. I'm here today because a few years ago we worked on a multi beam seep hunting project in the Gulf of Mexico. So I can share some of my experiences and - having worked on that project.Erica:00:01:15Awesome. And then we have our special guest star, Dan Orange. He is a geologist and geophysicist with Oro Negro exploration. Hi Dan.Dan Orange:00:01:24Good morning.Erica:00:01:25Would you like to introduce yourself briefly for us?Dan:00:01:28Sure. Let's see, I grew up in New England, Texas, so I went to junior high school, just a few miles from where we're recording this. But I did go to MIT where I got my bachelor's and master's degree in geology, then went out to UC Santa Cruz to do my PhD and my PhD had field work both onshore and offshore and involved seeps. So we'll come back to that. And also theoretical work as well. I had a short gig at Stanford and taught at Cal State Monterey Bay and spent five years at the Monterey Bay Aquarium Research Institute. Again, pursuing seeps. I left MBARI and started working with the oil patch in 1997 and it was early days in the oil industry pushing off the shelf and heading toward deep water and seeps were both a bug and a feature. So we started applying seep science to the oil industry and have been doing that for oh, now 21-22 years.Dan:00:02:32The entire time that I was at Embargin, and working with the oil patch. And in fact, ongoing, I do research for the US Navy through the Office of Naval Research. It started out involving seeps and canyon formation and it's evolved into multibeam seafloor mapping and acoustics. And that continues. So in the oil patch I was with AOA geophysics, we formed a company AGO to commercialize controlled source EM sold that to Schlumberger. And then we formed an oil company, Black Gold Energy, that would use seeps as a way to, go into oil exploration. And we sold that to NYKO, since leaving Black Gold with Oro Negro. We've been teaming with TGS since 2014 so now going on five years mapping the sea floor, I think we just passed one and a quarter million square kilometers, mapping with TGS as we mapped the sea floor and sample seeps, pretty much around the world for exploration.Erica:00:03:35Awesome. So let's begin our discussion today with what is a seep, if you can elucidate that for us.Dan:00:03:41So a seep is just what it sounds like. It's, it's a place on the earth's surface where something leaks out from beneath. And in our case it's oil and gas. Now seeps have been around since the dawn of humanity. The seeps are referenced in the Bible and in multiple locations seeps were used by the ancient Phoenicians to do repairs on ships they use as medicines and such. And in oil exploration seeps have been used to figure out where to look for oil since the beginning of the oil age. In fact that, you know, there seeps in, in Pennsylvania near Titusville where colonel Drake drilled his first well, where Exxon, had a group of, of people that they call the rover boys that went around the world after World War II looking for places on the Earth's surface that had big structures and oil seeps.Dan:00:04:39Because when you have a seep at the sea floor with or on the Earth's surface with oil and gas, you know that you had organic matter that's been cooked the right amount and it's formed hydrocarbons and it's migrating and all those things are important to findings, you know, economic quantities of oil and gas. So seeps have been used on land since the beginning of oil and gas exploration. But it wasn't until the 1990s that seeps began to affect how we explore offshore. So that's seeps go back to since the dawn of humanity, they were used in oil exploration from the earliest days, the 1870's and 80's onward. But they've been used offshore now since the mid 1990s. So that's, that's kind of, that seeps in context.Duncan:00:05:31But it's actually the, I, the way I like to think about it, it's the bit missing from the, "What is Geology 101" that every, everyone in the oil and gas industry has to know. They always show a source rock and a migration to a trap and a seal. But that actually misses part of the story. Almost every basin in the world has leakage from that trap, either, either directly from the source rock or from the trap. It either fills to the spill point or it just misses the trap. Those hydrocarbons typically make their way to the surface at some point-Dan:00:06:04at some point and somewhere. The trick is finding them.Duncan:00:06:08Yeah, that's the seep. And thus what we're interested in finding.Erica:00:06:12As Jed Clampett from the Beverly hillbillies discovered.Erica:00:06:15Exactly.Dan:00:06:15I was going to include that!Erica:00:06:19Yes.Dan:00:06:19Jed was out hunting for some food and up from the ground came a bubbling crude. That's it.Erica:00:06:27Oil that is.Dan:00:06:29Black gold.Erica:00:06:29Texas tea.Dan:00:06:30That's right. So that's that seep science. So today what we're going to do is we're going to talk about seep communities offshore because what I hope to be able to, you know, kind of convince you of is if oil and gas leak out of the sea floor, a seep community can form. Okay. Then we're going to talk about this thing called multibeam, which is a technique for mapping the sea floor because where you get a seep community, it affects the acoustic properties of the sea floor. And if we change the acoustic properties of sea floor or the shape of the sea floor with this mapping tool, we can identify a potential seep community and then we can go sample that.Dan:00:07:14And if we can sample it, we can analyze the geochemistry and the geochemistry will tell us whether or not we had oil or gas or both. And we can use it in all sorts of other ways. But that's where we're going to go to today. So that's kind of, that's kind of a map of our discussion today. Okay. So as Duncan said, most of the world, he Duncan talked about how in- if we have, an oil basin or gas basin with charge, there's going to be some leakage somewhere. And so the trick is to find that, okay. And so, we could, we could look at any basin in the world and we can look at where wells have been drilled and we can, we can look at where seeps leak out of the surface naturally. And there's a correlation, like for example, LA is a prolific hydrocarbon basin. Okay. And it has Labrea tar pits, one of the most charismatic seeps on earth cause you got saber tooth tigers bubbling outDuncan:00:08:18It's literally a tourist attraction.Dan:00:08:20Right there on Wilshire Boulevard. Okay. And it's a hundred meters long by 50 meters wide. So a hundred yards long, 50 yards wide. And it, that is an oil seep on, on the earth surface in LA okay.Duncan:00:08:32Now, it's important to mention that they're not all as big as that.Dan:00:08:34No, no. Sometimes they're smaller. It could just literally be a patch of oil staining in the sand.Erica:00:08:41Really, that's little.Duncan:00:08:41Oh yeah. I mean, or just an area where there's a cliff face with something draining out of it or it, you know, it could be really, really small, which is easy to find onshore. You know, you send the rover boys out there like you mentioned, and you know, geologists working on the ground, they're going to find these things eventually. But the challenge, which we've been working on with, with the guys from One for the last few years, and now is finding these things offshore.Dan:00:09:06So let's, let's turn the clock back to 1977. Alvin, a submarine, a submersible with three people in it went down on a Mid-ocean Ridge near the Galapagos Islands. And what they found, they were geologists going down to map where the oceanic crust is created. But what they found was this crazy community, this incredible, oasis of life with tube worms and these giant columns with what looked like black smoke spewing into the, into the ocean. And so what they found are what we now call black smokers or hot vents, and what was so shocking is the bottom of the ocean is it's a desert. There's no light, there's very little oxygen, there's not a lot of primary food energy. So what was this incredible, oasis of life doing thousands of meters down on, near the Galapagos Island? Well, it turns out that the base of the food chain for those hot vents are sulfide rich fluids, which come spewing out of the earth and they fuel a chemically based, community that thrives there and is an oasis as there because there's so much energy concentrated in those hot sulfide rich fluids that it can support these chemically based life forms.Dan:00:10:34So that's 1977 in 1985 in the same summer, chemically based life forms, but based on ambient temperature, water, not hot water were found in the Gulf of Mexico and off the coast of Oregon that same summer, 1985 in the Gulf of Mexico, the base of the food chain, what was fueling this chemical energy was hydrocarbons, oil and gas, and off the coast of Oregon, what was fueling it was hydrogen sulfide. So this is 1985, the year I graduated college. And so I started graduate school in 1986 and part of my research was working with the group that was trying to figure out the plumbing that was bringing these chemically rich fluids up to the earth's surface that were feeding this brand new community of life. You know, what we now call cold seeps. So, we, you know, depending on what you had for breakfast today, you know, eggs or pancakes or had your coffee, all the energy that we've got coursing through our veins right now is based upon photosynthesis.Dan:00:11:45We're either eating plants that got their energy from sunlight or we're eating eggs that came from chickens that eat the plants that can, where the came from, sunlight. Everything in our world up here is based upon photosynthesis. So, but the seep communities, the hot vents and the black smokers and the cold seeps, the base of the food pyramid is chemical energy. So they're called chemosynthetic communities or chemoautotrophic because the bacteria get their trophic energy, the energy that they need to live from chemicals. And so the bacteria utilize the chemicals and organisms have evolved to host these bacteria inside their bodies. And the bacteria metabolize the chemical energy to produce the enzymes that these larger organisms need to live. So these larger organisms can include clams, tube worms, the actual bacteria themselves. But, so the kind of how does this work is- let's get, because if we understand how seeps work and we know that seeps can be based upon oil and gas seepage, then you'll understand why we're using these seeps to go out and impact, oil and gas exploration.Dan:00:13:09So the- at the bottom of the ocean, we have a little bit of oxygen, but as we go down into the sediments, below the surface, we, we consume all that oxygen and we get to what's called the redox boundary to where we go from sulfate above it to hydrogen sulfide below it. And so below this redox boundary, we can have methane, we can have oil, but above that redox boundary, the methane will oxidize and the oil will be biodegraded and eaten by critters and whatnot. Now, living at that boundary, are bacteria who metabolize these compounds, and that's where they get the energy they need to live. These bac- Okay, now kind of turned the clock even farther back before the earth had an oxygen atmosphere, the only way that organisms got energy to live was from chemicals. Okay? So before we had algae and we created this oxygen atmosphere that we breathe billions of years ago, the organisms that lived on earth were chemosynthetic.Dan:00:14:13So these bacteria survive today and they live everywhere where we cross this redox boundary. Okay? So there they're actually archaea, which are some of the most primitive forms of bacteria, and I'm not a biologist, so I can't tell you how many billions of years ago they formed, but they're ancient and they're living down there.Erica:00:14:33So they haven't changed since then. They're basically the same?Dan:00:14:36Nope.Erica:00:14:36Wow.Dan:00:14:36They figured out a way to get energy to survive. It works.Erica:00:14:40Why change it?Dan:00:14:41If you're an Archea, right? So they're living down there at that redox boundary. Now, if we have seepage-seepage, is the flow of liquids. You actually lift that redox boundary. And if you have enough seepage, you can lift that boundary right to the sediment water interface. If you step in a pond and you smell that, sulfide, that rotten egg smell, your foot has gone through the redox boundary.Dan:00:15:08Okay? And you've disturbed some archaea down there and they'll get nudged aside. They'll go find someplace else. Okay? So with seepage, we lift the redox boundary to the sediment water interface and, and the bacteria are there and they're ready to utilize the reduced fluids as their source of energy. And so you can see them, we have pictures. You can do an internet search and say, you know, bacteria chemosynthetic bacteria and images and look at and look at photos of them. They it, they look like, okay, when you put the Guacamole in the back of the fridge and you forget it for three weeks and you open it up, that's what they look like. It's that fuzzy. It's this fuzzy mat of bacteria. And those are the bacteria. They're out there. They're metabolizing these fluids. Okay. Now in the process of metabolizing these fluids, they produce the bacteria, produce enzymes like ATP.Dan:00:16:01And I wish my partner John Decker, was here because he would correct me. I think it's adinase triphosphate and it's an enzyme that your body produces and sends out to basically transmit chemical energy. Okay. Now at some point in geologic time, and I'll, I'll actually put a number on this in a second. The larger fauna like clams and tube worms, evolve to take advantage of the fact that the bacteria are producing energy. And so they then evolve to use the bacteria within themselves to create the energy that they need to live. Okay? So, what happens is these seep fauna produce larva, the larva go into, you know, kind of a dormant stage and they're flowing around the ocean. And if they sense a seep, okay. They settle down and they start to grow and as, and then they, they, they, the bacteria become part of them.Dan:00:16:56They're the, the clams. You open a clam in the bacteria live in the gills. Okay. And so they'd grow and, and so these clams and tube worms start to grow and they form a community. Okay. So that a clam, what a clam does these clams, they stick their foot into the, into the sediment and they absorb the reduced fluids into their circulation system. They bring that, that circulating fluid to their gills where the bacteria then metabolize these reduced fluids and send the enzymes out to the tissues of the clam so it can grow. So this clam does not filter feed like every other clam on the planet. The tube worms that host these bacteria in them don't filter feed. So the base of the food chain is chemosynthetic. But the megafauna themselves, don't get their energy directly from methane or hydrogen sulfide. They get their energy from the bacteria, which in the bacteria, you know, the bacteria happy, they'll live anywhere.Dan:00:17:59But sitting here in a clam, they get the reduced fluids they need to live and they grow. Now it's what's cool for us as, as seep hunters is different species have evolved to kind of reflect different types of fluids. So if you know a little bit about seep biology, when you pick up like a batheum Modiolus mussel, you go, Huh? There could be oil here. Okay. Because that particular mussel is found in association with, with oil seeps. Okay. So that we won't go too far down that path, but there are different organisms. The important thing is that these communities, form again an oasis of life, a high concentration of life where we have a seep. Now, the oldest seep community that I'm aware of is Devonian. So that's between 420 and 360 million years. It's found in the high atlas mountains of Morocco.Dan:00:18:58And that seep community, a fossil seep community includes the same types of clams in tube worms that we find today. Okay. But they're also found with authigenic carbonate. Okay. Which is like limestone. And so, and that limestone in cases, this fossil seep community and has preserved it for hundreds of millions of years. So where does limestone come from? So remember we've got methane, CH4 in our, in some of our seep fluids. Well, if that's oxidized by bacteria, cause they're going to get energy from the methane they produced bicarbonate, which is HCO3 as a negative charge on it. And that bicarbonate, if it sees calcium, they like each other. And so they'll form calcium carbonate, limestone. And since sea water is everywhere saturated with calcium, if we have a natural gas seep, the bacteria will oxidize in natural gas and the bicarbonate will grab the calcium to form this cement.Dan:00:20:04Now deep enough in the ocean, it actually is acidic enough that that cement will start to dissolve. So we just have this, we have a factory of of bacteria. It might be dissolving some places, but most of the places we look, the carbonate doesn't dissolve. So we've got clams, tube worms, we've got the limestone authigenic carbonate, and if the pressure and temperature are in the right field, that methane can also form this really cool substance called gas hydrate and gas hydrate is a clathrate the, it's a combination of water and methane where the water forms an ice-like cage and the methane sits in that cage. And so you can light this on fire in your hand and the gas will burn. Nice yellow flame will go up from your hand and the cage will melt. The ice melts. So you get cold water on your hand with flames going up. It, it's cool stuff.Erica:00:21:03Did you bring one of these to show us today?Dan:00:21:06The pressure and temperature in this room are not, methane's not an equilibrium. You need hot, you need high pressure, moderately high pressure and you need very low temperatures. So, if we had-Duncan:00:21:20Neither are common in Houston, (Laughter)Dan:00:21:22No, and we wouldn't be terribly comfortable if that was what it was like here in this room. But the, the important thing for us now as we think about seep science and, and seep hunting is that this, this limestone cement, the authigenic carbonate, the gas hydrate, the shells of a clam, okay. Are All harder. Okay? Harder, I will knock on the table. They're harder than mud. So the sea floor, most of the most of the world's ocean is gray-green mud and ooze from all sorts of sediment and diatoms and plankton raining down onto the ocean floor. So most of the world's oceans is kind of just muddy sandy some places, but sediment, it's where you get these seep communities that now we've, we've formed a spot that some that's harder and rougher than the area around it. And that's our target when we, deploy technologies to go out and, and look at seeps.Dan:00:22:26So, so hot smokers, hot vents were discovered in 1977. Cold seeps were discovered in 1985 and were found to be associated, in the Gulf of Mexico with oil and gas seepage. That's 1985. Those were discovered with human beings in a sub in submersibles. Later, we deployed robotic submersibles to go look at seeps, ROV's and even later we developed tools to go sample seeps without needing to have eyes on the bottom and we'll come and talk and we'll come back and talk about that later.Dan:00:22:57But for kind of recap, a seep is a place where something is leaking out of the earth surface. When we talk about seeps, we're talking about offshore seepage of oil and gas that supports this profusion of chemically-based life forms as well as these precipitants, the authigenic carbonate limestone and gas hydrate. And the important thing is they change the acoustic properties of the sea floor.Duncan:00:23:28Yeah. Then the key thing is that you've gone from having, seeps onshore, which are relatively easy to walk up to and see, but hard to find, to seeps offshore, which are impossible to walk up to or very difficult. You need a submersible to do it. But because of this, chemosynthetic communities that build up around it and our knowledge of that and now gives us something to look for geophysically. So we can apply some geophysics, which we'll get on to talk about next in terms of the multibeam, to actually hunt for these things in a very cost effective way and a very fast manner. So we can cover, as Dan said, right at the start, hundreds of thousands of square kilometers, even over a million now, in a cost effective, timely manner and identify these seeps from the sea surface.Dan:00:24:15Now fishermen, know where seeps are because all of this limestone provides places for fish to leave their larva where they might live, they call them refugia. It's a, it's a place where, you know, lots of little fish and where you have lots of little fish, you have lots of big fish. And since we're also increasing this primary productivity, you get, you get profusions of fish around seep communities. So we've found authigenic carbonate in the front yards of fishermen in areas where that we've gone to study seeps. And if you chip a little bit off it, you can go and analyze it in the lab or if you can get somebody who fishes for a living to tell you their spots. And that involves convincing them that you're not going to steal their spots and you're not gonna tell everybody where their spots are. But if you go into a frontier area, if you can get somebody who fishes for a living to talk to you, you might have some ideas of where to go look for them.Dan:00:25:14So it kind of, one other point that I wanted to make here about seeps is, remember I talked about how seep organism creates kind of a larva, which is dormant and it's kind of flowing through the world's ocean, looking for a seep community, doing some back of the envelope calculations. If, if a larva can survive for about a month. Okay. And you have a one knot current that larva can move about 1300 kilometers in a month, which is about the length of the island of Java. And it might be about the length of the state of California. So if you think now, so if you think about that, then all you need is a seep community somewhere to be sending out larva. Most of which of course never gonna survive. And then if we get a seep somewhere else, the odds are that there's going to be a larva bouncing along the sea floor that is going to see that and start growing.Dan:00:26:08So for us as explorationists as the, the important thing is if there's a seep, there's a pretty good chance that, that a seep community will start to form, if the seepage lasts long enough, it will form a community depending, you know, might be large, might be medium size, but it changes the acoustic properties of the sea floor. Okay, so that, remember we're going to talk about seeps what they, what, what's a seep and that is how it's related to hydrocarbon seepage out of the or natural gas oil, you know, reduced fluids. What we were going to talk about, and now we're going to talk about how offshore we use this technology called multibeam to go and find them. Okay.Dan:00:26:51So back in, back in the Cold War, the air force came up with a tool to map the former Soviet Union called synthetic aperture radar. And when the navy saw the air forces maps, they said, we want a map of the sea floor. And at the time, you know, if you remember your World War II movies, the submarine sends out a Ping, somebody listening on, their, on their headphones and and the ping comes back and the amount of time that it took for the ping to go out and the ping come back is how deep the water is. If you know the speed of sound in water. But that's, that's just one point directly beneath you, that's not good enough to get a detailed map of the sea floor. So, driven by these cold war needs, the navy contracted a company called general instruments to develop a tool to map the sea floor and they develop what's called SASS, the sonar array sounding system, which we now call multibeam.Dan:00:27:49In the 1960s, it was unveiled to the world during a set of, submersible dives to the mid Ocean Ridge, I believe in 1975 as part of the famous project. And the geoscientist looked at that map and it was a contour map of the mid ocean region. They said, holy smokes, what's that? Where'd that come from? And the navy said, well, we kind of developed a new technology and it was first commercialized in 1977 the same year hot smokers were discovered on the world's oceans. And it has been continuously developed since then. And in about the 1990s, it got resolute enough for, for us to take this, this kind of seeps, seep hunting science and take it offshore. So until then, 1980s, we were deploying submersibles. We were going down and looking at them. We had very crude maps. We had some side scan shows, a little bit about, the acoustic properties of the sea floor.Dan:00:28:46But it wasn't until the mid 1990s that we realized that with these tools, these sea floor mapping tools that had acoustic, analyzing techniques that we could identify areas that were harder and rougher and had a different shape, that allowed us to start, instead of just driving around and, and, we're finding one by, by luck or chance actually saying, Huh, there's a, there's an interesting acoustic signature over there. Let's go take a look at it. And deploying submersibles and ROVs and realizing that yes, we had tools that could, be used to, to map the sea floor and identify seeps and driven by their own interests. The Navy, the US navy was very interested in these and, was, was a early, early funder of seep science and they've continued with it as well as academic institutions around the world that got very interested in seep communities.Dan:00:29:45And in fact, NASA, NASA is really interested in seep communities because they're chemically based life forms in what are basically extreme environments. And so if NASA wants to figure out what life is going to look like on a different planet, or a different moon on it, or surrounding a different planet that doesn't have an oxygen atmosphere, here's a, a laboratory on earth that, that they can use. So NASA has been funding seep science as well.Dan:00:30:11So multibeam what is it and how does it apply to, to, to hunting seeps. So multibeam, which is this technology that was developed by and funded by the navy in the 1960s and commercialized in the 70s uses two acoustic arrays of transducers. one array is mounted parallel to the length of a ship. And when you fire off all those transducers, it sends out a ping. And the longer the array is, the narrower that beam is. That's how antennas work. So that that long array sends out a ping, which is narrow along track and a shape, kind of like a saucer. So if you can imagine two dinner plates put together, that's what this, ping of energy looks like. And that's what we call the transmit beam. So then if you listen to the sea floor with an array that's perpendicular to the transmitter ray, we are now listening to an area that's, that's narrow across track. Okay. And it's long elongate a long track. So we've got this narrow transmit beam in one direction that's, that's now perpendicular to the ship. And we've got a narrow receive beam that's parallel to the ship and where those two intersect is what we call a beam. And so with, with lots of different, transducers mounted, perpendicular to the ship, we can listen from all the way out to the port about 65 degrees down below the ship and all the way over to starboard, again, about 65 degrees. And we have lots of beams.Dan:00:31:51So right now the system that we're using, on our project has 455 beams across track. So every time we send out a ping, we ensonify the sea floor on, on these 455 beams. And as we go along, we send out another ping and another ping. And we're basically, we're painting the sea floor. It's, it's like mowing the lawn with a big lawn mower or using a Zamboni to drive around an ice rink. You can just think of it as as a ship goes along. We are ensonifying and listening to a wide patch of sea floor and we typically map, about a five kilometer, about a three mile, a wide swath, and we send out a ping every six or 10 seconds. Depends how, you know, depends on the water depth. And so we're able to map 1000 or 2000 square kilometers a day with this technique. This multibeam technique.Duncan:00:32:48Since a lot of our podcast listeners might be familiar with seismic is that's probably the biggest percentage of the, the geophysical industry. This is not too different. It's an acoustic based technique. I guess the main difference is are we live working in a different, frequency bandwidth. And also that we have both the receiver and the transmitter both mounted on the same boat. So we're not dealing with a streamer out the back of a boat. we have transmitter and receiver are both whole mounted. But after that it's all pretty similar to seismic. We go backwards and forwards, either in 2D lines or in a, in a 3D grid and we build up a picture. Now because of the frequencies we're working with, we don't penetrate very deep into the sea floor. but as, as we mentioned, we're interested in seeing those seep communities on the sea floor. So that's why we this, this is the perfect technology for, for that application.Erica:00:33:40Oh, can you talk a little bit about the post-processing that's involved with multibeam?Dan:00:33:44Well, let me- Erica, Great question. Let me, come back to that later cause I want to pay, I want to pick up on what Duncan talked about in and add one very important wrinkle. So first of all, absolutely correct, the frequencies are different. In seismic, we're down in the hertz to tens of Hertz and in Multibeam we're in the tens of kilohertz and in very shallow water, maybe even over higher than a hundred kilohertz. In seismic, we have air guns that send that radiate out energy. And we, we designed the arrays so that we get most of the energy in the direction that we're looking with multi beam. We have a narrow, remember it's one degree wide in here. If you got kids, see if anybody still has a protractor anymore, grab a protractor and look at how wide one degree is. It's very narrow.Duncan:00:34:39There's probably an iPhone app for that. (Laughter) see what one used to look like.Dan:00:34:43But with, with seismic, the air guns sends out energy and we listened to the reflected energy out on the streamer back behind the ship or on a node somewhere else. It's reflected energy. With multibeam, the energy goes out and it interacts with the sea floor and the shallow subsurface. Most of it gets reflected away and we don't, we don't, hear that it, but some of it actually comes back in the same direction that the sound went out and we call that backscatter. So backscatter energy comes back to you and it's that backscatter that, can increase when we have hard and rough material either on the sea floor or buried below the sea floor. So the way that we process it is since we know the time of length, the time of path on how long it took to get out, hit the sea floor and come back, or you can correct for path lengths, energy radiates outward and spherical patterns. So we correct for spherical spreading. we know the angle that it hit the sea floor, so we correct for angle of ensonification. And then the next and most important things are where was the ship, when the pulse went out? And where is the ship when the pulse comes back, including what's the orientation of the ship? So we need to know the location, the position of the ship in X, Y, and Z to centimeters. And we need to know the orientation of the ship to tenths of a degree or better on both the transmit and the receive. But the key thing is, if we know that path length in the spherical spreading and we correct for all of that and we get a response that's much greater than we expected, we get higher backscatter energy and it's, it's those clams and tube worms authigenic carbonate gas hydrate that can increase the hardness and the roughness of the sea floor that kicked back the backscatter energy.Dan:00:36:46Okay. Now what happens if the oil and gas, or the reduced fluids if they shut off? Well, I'm sorry to say for the clams and the tube worms that they will eventually die. The bacteria will still live at that redox boundary as it settles back below the sediment. And then when we pile some sediment on top of that dead seep community, it's still there. The shells are there, the carbonate's still there. So with the, with multibeam that the frequencies, we use 12 and 30 kilohertz penetrate between two, three 10 meters or so into the sediment. So if you shut off the seepage and bury that seep community, they're still there. And if we can sample that below that redox boundary at that location, chances are we're going to get a oil or gas in, in our sample. And in fact, we encounter live seep communities very, very, very, very rarely, you know, kind of one in a thousand.Dan:00:37:50But, we, we encounter seep fauna down in our sample cores, which we'll talk about later, much more frequently. And, and we, we find hydrocarbons, we are very successful at finding hydrocarbons. And the key thing is we're using seep science to go look in, in basins or extend outward from basins in areas where there may be no known oil or gas production. And that's why the seeps are useful. So multibeam unlike a seismic, we got to collect the data, then we got it and you to do all sorts of processing and it takes a while to, to crank the computers and whatnot. Multibeam we can, we can look at it as it comes in and we can see the backscatter strength. We can see what the swath that it's mapping every ping, every six seconds. And it takes about, it takes less than a day to process a days worth of multibeam.Dan:00:38:47So when our ships are out there working every morning, when we get the daily report from the ship, we see another thousand or 2000 square kilometers of data that were mapped just the previous day. So it's for, those who can't wait, it's really satisfying. But for those of us who are trying to accelerate projects, it's great because when the data come off the ship, they're already processed. We can start picking targets and we can be out there, you know, in weeks sampling. So that's so multibeam it's, it's bathymetry, it's backscatter, but we're also imaging the water column. So if there's, a gas plume, coming out of the sea floor, naturally we can see that gas plume and, so that we can see the water column. We can see the sea floor or the bathymetry, and the backscatter. Erica, you asked, you know, about the processing and I talked about how we have to know the position and the orientation, of the ship, that means that we have to survey in using a laser theodolight.Dan:00:39:54We have to survey in every component of the system on the ship to, you know, fractions of a millimeter. And we drive the surveyors nuts because we are, we are more demanding than the, the BMW plant in South Carolina. And they point that out to us every time. Yes, we're more demanding. But if they have a problem with, with a robot in the BMW plant, they can go out and survey it again, once we put this ship in the water, I can't go survey the array that's now welded to the bottom of the ship. It's there. And so that's why we make them do three replicate surveys and do loop ties and convince us that we've got incredibly accurate and precise system. So that's when we survey the ship. We use, well we go back and we go and we check their math and we make sure all the numbers are entered into the system correctly.Dan:00:40:46We, measure the water column every day so that we have the best velocity data that we use to correct the, that position. We measure the salinity in the water column because it affects how energy is absorbed. It's called the absorption coefficient. We measure the acoustic properties of the ship. So we understand maybe we need to turn off the starboard side pump in order to get better multibeam data. And we evaluate every component of the ship. Something. Sometimes they'll have, you know, the, the waste unit was, was mounted onto the, onto the deck of the ship and nobody thought about putting a rubber bushing between that unit and the hall to isolate the sound. And it just so happens it's at 12 kilohertz. So it swamps your acoustic energy or degrades our data quality because it's all about data quality so that we can find these small, interesting high backscatter targets. We polish the hull. We send divers down every eight weeks or 12 weeks or 16 weeks because you get biofouling you get, you get these barnacles growing in a barnacle in between your acoustic array in the sea floor is going to affect the data. So we send divers down to go scrape the hull and scraped the prop.Duncan:00:42:05So it's probably worth mentioning that this is the same type of multibeam or multibeam data is the same data that is used in other parts of the oil and gas industry as well. So I mean, any pipeline that's ever been laid in the last few decades has had a multibeam survey before it. Any bit of marine infrastructure that an oil and gas company wants to put in the Gulf of Mexico. Certainly you have to have a multibeam survey ahead of time. what's different here is that we're, we're trying to cover big areas and we're trying to get a very specific resolution. So maybe it's worth talking a bit about that. Dan what we're actually trying to achieve in terms of the resolution to actually find seeps.Dan:00:42:42You got it. So we, we can, we can control the resolution because we can control how wide a swath we go and how fast we go. So, if you're really interested in, if you want to do a site survey and you want to get incredibly detailed data of a three kilometer by three kilometer square, you could deploy an autonomous underwater vehicle or an ROV and get very, very, very resolute, like smaller than half a meter of bin size. for what we do, where our goal is exploration, the trade off is between, do I want more resolute data or do I want more data and it that that is a tradeoff and it's something that we struggle with. And we think that the sweet spot is mapping that five kilometers swath and three miles wide, swath at about oh eight to 10 knots. So let's say about 16 kilometers an hour.Dan:00:43:40That gets us a thousand to 2000 square kilometers a day. And by acquiring data in that manner, we get a 15 meter bathymetric bin independent of water depth and our backscatter since we subsample that bathymetric bin for the backscatter, we can get a five meter backscatter pixel. So now if I have four, if I have four adjacent pixels, you know, shaped like a square, that's a 10 meter by 10 meter spot on the sea floor, it's slightly larger than this room. We could, you could see that now you might need a couple of more to be larger than that. So to have a target actually stand out, and that's about how accurate our sampling is with the core barrel. So, the long answer to your question is about a 15 meter bathymetric bin and a five meter backscatter pixel is what we're currently doing for our exploration work.Dan:00:44:32Now we pay attention to what's going on in the navigation and the positioning world because it affects our data quality. So the higher the quality of, of our navigation, the higher the quality of our data on the sea floor. So about a decade ago, the world's airlines asked if they could fly their airplanes closer together and the FAA responded and said, not unless you improve GPS and so sponsored by the world's airlines. They set up ground stations all in, in the, in the most heavily traveled parts of the world that improve the GPS signal by having an independent orbital corrections. What that means is for us working off shore, we take advantage of it. It's called wide area augmentation. And, using this system, which is now it's a, it's add on for a GPS receiver, we're able to get six centimeter accuracy of a ship that's out there in the ocean that surveying.Dan:00:45:27So that's six centimeters. What's that? About two and a half inches. And for those of us who grew up with low ran and very, you know, where you were lucky if you knew where you were to within, you know, a quarter of a mile. it's, it's just astonishing to me that this box can produce data of that quality, but that flows through to the quality of the data that we get on our surveys, which flows through to our ability to find targets. So I think, I told you about sub sampling, the bathymetry for backscatter and I've told, I told you about the water column and we've talked about the resolution. I think we've, we've pretty much hit what multibeam is. It's, it's a real time near real time acquisition, high frequency narrow beam. We image the sea floor and the shallow subsurface. Okay and we use that to find anomalous backscatter targets.Duncan:00:46:20Well, let's talk about the water column a little bit more done because I know we've published some pictures and images from our surveys. Showing the water column anomalies. The backscatter data, in the water column itself can actually help us find seeps. The right mixture of oil and gas coming out of this, an active seep and migrating up through the water column can actually be picked up on these multibeam data also. So that's, a real direct hit that you've got to see and that it's actually still producing oil today,Dan:00:46:53Right, so when, when gas and oil leak out of the sea floor, the gas bubble begins to expand as it comes up, just like a would in a, in a carbonated beverage because there's less pressure. So that gap, that bubble is expanding. If there's oil present, the oil coats the outside of the bubble and actually protects it from dissolving into the water column. And so the presence of gas with a little bit of oil leaking out of the sea floor creates these bubbles that, are big enough to see with these 12 and 30 kilohertz systems. And so when we see a plume coming out of the sea floor, that's natural, a seepage of gas, possibly with a little bit of oil and it provides a great target for us to go and hit. Now those seeps are flowing into the water column and the water column has currents and the currents aren't the same from one day to the next and one week to the next.Dan:00:47:47So if we image a seep a couple of different times, one day it will be flowing in one direction and the next time we see it flowing in a different direction. The area in common between the two is pointing us toward the origin point on the sea floor. And that's what we're going to target. And if you, if you hunt around, look for NOAA studies of, of the US Gulf of Mexico, over Mississippi Canyon near where the deep water horizon, went down because there are, the, NOAA has published, images of the gas seeps in that area where there are natural oil and gas seeps leaking, leaking other, the sea floor. And these natural seeps occur all over the world. Okay? And they're bringing oil and gas into the water column. But remember, nature has basically provided, the cleanup tool, which is the bacteria. So where oil and gas settle onto the sea floor, there are bacteria that will consume it. You don't want a lot of it in one place, cause then then you've got, you know, a real environmental disaster. But natural oil and gas seepage goes hand in hand with natural seep consuming organisms that metabolize these fluids. So a multi beam seeps backscatter okay. That I think we've, we've talked about what the target looks like. Let's talk about how we go in and sample it.Duncan:00:49:12Yeah, no, I think that's the real key thing. Particularly here in the Gulf of Mexico. I mean we talked at the start about how I'm using seeps can tell you whether a basin has hydrocarbons in it or not. Clearly we're decades past the point of knowing whether there's oil and gas in the Gulf of Mexico. So even in the deep water gulf of Mexico, especially here in the US side, we know that there's oil and gas, so that information is long gone. We don't, we don't need an update on that anymore. What we need to know is information about the type of oil, the age of the oil, the deep positional environment that the oil is deposited in. And if we can actually get a sample from these seeps, then that's the sort of information that modern geochemistry can start to pull out for us.Dan:00:49:57we've sat in the same meetings where the, the potential client companies have said, why are you, why are you gonna map the deepest part of the Gulf of Mexico? There's no oil out there. And lo and behold, we found anomalous backscatter targets on a diapirs, which are areas, mounds out in the deepest parts of the Gulf of Mexico. And lo and behold, if you, if you look at the data, know that that statement was incorrect. There is oil and gas out there in other parts of the world. We've had companies say, oh, this part's all oil and this part's gas. Well, how do you know that? Well, because we've drilled for oil out here and we don't think there's any oil. Once you get out there and you don't know, you don't know what you don't know until you go map it and sample it and then you come back, you put the data on their desk and they go, huh, hey, we were wrong man. I guess there's oil out there. And, and in other parts of the world where you know, we've done all our exploration close to land or in shallow water, we go out into the deepest part and nobody's ever drilled a well out there. So, you use the seep science to go to basically fill that in.Dan:00:51:09So in order to make money exploring for oil, you had to have organic matter. Originally it had to be, it had to be buried and cooked. Okay. So you needed temperature and pressure. You need time takes time to do that, then it needs to migrate. Okay. With the exception of unconventionals, we're not gonna talk about unconventional today with the exception of unconventionals, the hydrocarbons have to migrate, so they're concentrated so that you can go drill them and recover them. And they need to be in a reservoir.Dan:00:51:41And it has to be sealed. And so when we find a seep and all of that goes into what we talk about in oil exploration as the risk equation, like what's the probability of success? If you don't know whether you have a migration, you have maximum uncertainty and that flows through into your, into your risk. Well, if we find a seep, remember we've proven that there was organic matter. We've proven that it was buried and cooked for the right amount of time to create oil and gas and that it's migrated. We can't tell you anything about reservoir or seal or timing, but we can, we can materially impact the risk equation by finding a seep. Okay. So right before you drill a well, wouldn't you like to know whether or not there's oil or gas in the neighborhood? Cause a well can be a can be $100 million risk.Dan:00:52:34Okay. Usually you wouldn't, wouldn't you like to know? So remember when we started looking at seeps, 1977 for the hot vents 85 for the cold vents, we used human beings in a submersible. Later we shifted to using robotic submersibles where a human being sit on a ship in a control room, operate the ROV with joysticks, and you watch the videos come through. Well, those are great, but they're really expensive and you can't look at much sea floor on any given day because you're limited to how fast you can move across the sea floor and how much you can look at. So if we surveyed 2000 square kilometers in a day, we want to be able to evaluate that in less than 20 years. We want to be able to evaluate that in, you know, in a similar length of time, a day or two. So what we've done is we've shifted toward using what we, what's called a piston core, which, which is a six meter long, 20 foot long tube with about a thousand kilos on a 2,000 pounds.Dan:00:53:37And we lower it through the sea floor, operating it with a winch from a ship. And by putting a navigation beacon on that core, we can track it through the water column in real time. And if we have this high backscatter target on the sea floor, we can lower it to the water column. Once we're about fit and we're within 50 meters, 150 feet of the sea floor, we can see whether we're on target and then we let it go. When the pist- when the, it has a trigger weight on it, you can look this up, how to, how do piston cores work, that the core, lets go and it free falls that last little bit and it penetrates the sea floor. You haul it back to the surface. Now if it had gas hydrate in it, if it has oil in it, if it has gas in it, you can see it right away. when you pull the clear liner out of the core, and there it is, you know, whether or not you've got success, for most cores, there's no visual evidence of hydrocarbons that we sample that core tube, three different samples. One of them, we take a sample into what we call a gas can and seal that. And then we put a couple of hockey puck size chunks of sediment into Ziploc bags and everything goes into the freezer. And you ship that back, from the next port call. And about a month later you get a spreadsheet in your email, that says, oh, guess what you found methane, ethane, propane, butane, and Pentane. And look at this, you've got enough fluorescents that this is a guaranteed oil hit. So, again, you think about the time we map a couple thousand square kilometers a day.Dan:00:55:18We mapped for a month, we'll look the data for a month. We go out and core for a couple of weeks and a month later the Geochemistry starts flowing in. So real quick, multibeam as we've, as we've discussed as a way to get a detailed map of the sea floor, both the shape of it and the hardest roughness, acoustic properties. So any company laying a fiber optic cable across the world's oceans is acquiring multibeam data. Any, municipality that's worried about how deep their ports are and whether there's enough space for the ships to come in, is acquiring multibeam data. The corps of engineers who pays companies to dredge sand in the Mississippi River has to have a before and after multibeam a map, when MH370 went down and needed to be hunted for before they deployed the real high resolution tools. They needed a map of the sea floor and that was a part of the ocean that has never been mapped in detail before.Dan:00:56:23So most of the world's oceans have net have never been mapped in the detail that we're mapping them. We're using the tool to go hunt seeps. But there are all sorts of other uses of, of that multi beam technology. So, what are we looking for when we, when we, when we're looking for seeps, you know, what have, where have people found oil and gas leaking out of the sea floor? What does it look like? Or what are the targets? Well, if the gas burps out of the sea floor, it creates a pockmark. And those are targets, in many parts of the world, the Apennines of Italy, Azerbaijan, there are what we call mud volcanoes, where over pressured mud from deep down in the earth is kind of spewing out gently, slowly and continuously at the earth's surface. And lo and behold, it's bringing up oil and gas along with it. So mud volcanoes are known, oil and gas seeps onshore. Of course we're going to use them, offshore. Any place where we have a fault, you can create fracture permeability that might let oil and gas up. Faults can also seal, but a fault would be a good target, an anticline, a big fold that has a, can have seeps coming out of the crest of, it's similar to the seeps that were discovered early in late 18 hundreds. And in, in the USA, we can have areas where we have oil and gas leaking out of the sea floor, but it's not enough to change the shape of the sea floor. So we get high backscatter but no relief. Those, those are targets. So when we go out and we sample potential seep targets, we don't focus on only one type of target because that might only tell you one thing.Dan:00:58:04So we spread our, our targets around on different target types and we'll spread our targets around an area. Even if we, if we have more targets in one area than another area, we will spread our targets all the way around. Because the one thing that we've learned in decades of seep hunting is we're not as smart as we think we are. Nature always throws a curve ball. And you should, you should not think that you knew, know everything before you go into an area to analyze it because you might, you probably will find something that's, that startles you. And you know, as someone who's been looking at seeps since 1986, I continue to find things that we've never seen before. like our recent projects in the Gulf of Mexico, we found two target types that we've never seen before. The nearest analog on earth, on the surface is called a Pingo, which is when ice forms these really weird mountains up in the Arctic. And the one thing I can guarantee you that's not on the bottom of the world's ocean is an ice mound similar to what's forming the Arctic. But, but it had that shape. So we went and analyzed it and lo and behold, it told us something about the hydrocarbon system.Dan:00:59:12So those are all different types of target types so that the core comes back, we send it to the lab, we get first the very, what call the screening geochemistry, which is a light gases, methane through Pentane. We look at how fluorescent it is, cause that'll tell you whether or not you, you have a chance of of having a big oil hit. And we also look at what's called the chromatogram, which is a gas chromatography. And that tells us between about C15 and C36 C being the carbon length. So the, all your alkanes. And by looking at a Chromatogram, a trained professional will look that and say, oh, that's biodegraded oil. Or, oh, that's really fresh oil cause really fresh oil. All the, alkane peaks get smaller as they get bigger. So it has a very, very distinctive shape. Or they can look at it and they can tell you, you can, you can figure out the depositional environment. You can figure out whether the organic matter came from a lake, lacustrine, or maybe it's marine algal. We can say something about the age of it because flowering plants didn't evolve on earth till about the end of the age of dinosaurs. So at the end of the cretaceous, we got flowering plants. And so flowering plants create a molecule called oleanane. And so if there's no oleanane in the oil, that oil is older than cretaceous. So now we're telling something about a depositional environment.Dan:01:00:39We're saying something about the age, we can say the, the geochemist can say something about the maturity of the oil by looking at the geochemistry data. So all of this information, is now expanding what we know about what's in the subsurface and everything we know about seepage is that it is episodic in time. And it is distributed on earth's surface, not in kind of a random scattered, fashion. You get seepage above above a mud mud volcano, but for the surrounding hundred square kilometers around this mud volcano, we don't find any seep targets. Okay. So, our philosophy is that in order to find, in order to analyze the seats, we have to go find where we've got the highest probability of seepage and leakage. And that's where we target. So if you went out and just dropped a random grid over an area, you have a very, very low chance of hitting a concentrated site of seepage. And so, our hit rate, our success rate is, is high because we're using these biological and chemical indicators of seepage to help us guide where we sample. We have very precisely located sampling instruments this core with this acoustic beacon on it. And so we have, we have a very, very high success rates. And when we get hydrocarbons, we get enough hydrocarbons that we can do all of this advanced geochemistry on it.Duncan:01:02:13That's a good point Dan, even with- even without just doing a random grid of coring, piston coring has been done in the the US Gulf of Mexico for a long time now. And using seismic information, to target it. So like you say, looking for the faults and the anticlines and those type of features and very shallow anomalies on the seismic data. Even even guiding it with that information, typically a, a 5% hit rate might be expected. So you take two or 300 cores you know, you're going to get maybe 5%-10% hit rate, where you can actually look at the oils, and the geochemistry from the samples that you get. Using the multibeam, we were more like a 50 to 60% hit rate. And that's even with like Dan said, we're targeting some features where we know we're not going to find oil. so we could probably do even better than that if we, if we really focused in on finding oil. But obviously we're trying to assemble all the different types of seeps.Dan:01:03:11One of the things that we're asked and that we've heard from managers since we started working in the oil industry is what is this sea floor seep tell me about what's in my reservoir. And there's only, there have been very few, what we, what we call the holy grail studies published where a company has published the geochemistry at the reservoir level and the geochemistry on a seep that they can tie to that reservoir in the Gulf of Mexico. We collected dozens of seeps that can be tied to the same basin where there is known production. So in that Gulf of Mexico Dataset, a company that purchased that data and who had access to the reservoir oils could finally have a sufficient number of correlations that they could answer that question. What is the sea floor seep? Tell me about the reservoir. Because once you're comfortable in the Gulf of Mexico, that that seep is really telling you what's down in your reservoir.Dan:01:04:08Now you go into other parts of the world where you don't know what's in the reservoir before you drill and you find a good, a fresh seep with fresh oil right at the sea floor. Now you're confident that when you go down into the reservoir that you're going to find something, something similar. So let me talk a little bit about other things that you can do with these cores. And I'll start by kind of looking at these mud volcanoes. So this mud volcano, it had over pressured mud at depth. It came up to the surface of the earth and as it came up, it grabbed wall rock on its way up. So by analyzing a mud volcano, if we then go look at, say the microfossils, in all the class in a mud volcano, we can tell you about the age of the rocks that mud volcano came through without ever drilling a well.Dan:01:04:54So you can look at, at the, at the vitrinite reflectance, you can look at the maturity of the, of these wall rocks that are brought to you on the surface. You can look at heavy minerals. And when we go out and we do field geology, you know, you remember you're a geologist has a rock pick they and they go, the geologist goes up to the cliff and, and she or he chips a rock out and they take it back to lab and take a look at it. And that's how they tell something about what's in the outcrop. Well, it's hard to do field geology on the bottom of the ocean using a multibeam map and - acoustically guided core. We can now go and do field work on the, on the ocean floor and expand our knowledge of what's going on in a field area.Duncan:01:05:42So maybe it's worth talking a bit Dan about how we're jointly using these technologies or this group of technologies, at TGS, to put together projects. So the, I think generally the approach has been to look at, basin wide study areas. So we're not just carving off little blocks and doing, one of these, one of these projects over, over a particular block. We'll take on the whole Gulf of Mexico. So we, we broke it up into two. We looked at the Mexico side and the US side. But in total, I think it was nearly a million square kilometers that we covered and, about 1500 cores that I think we took, so we were putting these packages together in different basins all over the world, whether they're in mature basins like the Gulf of Mexico or frontier areas like places we're working in West Africa at the moment. But I think we're, we're looking to put more and more of these projects together. I think the technology applies to lots of different parts of the world. Both this side of the Atlantic and the eastern side of the Atlantic as well.Dan:01:06:44So since 2014, five years, we've mapped, we as in One and TGS have mapped, I believe over 1,250,000 square kilometers. We've acquired over 2000 cores. Oh. We also measure heat flow. We can use - is how the earth is shedding heat. And it's concentrated in some areas in, and you want to know heat flow if you're looking for oil, cause you got to know how much your organic matter has been cooked. So we've, we've collected thousands of cores, at dramatic success rates and we've used them. We've used these projects in areas of known hydrocarbon production, like the shallow water Gulf of Mexico, but we've, we've extended out into areas of completely unknown hydrocarbon production, the deep water Gulf of Mexico, the east coast of Mexico over in the Caribbean. We're looking at northwest Africa, Senegal, The Gambia, Guinea-Bissau, and the area, that's a jointly operated AGC. And we're looking at other frontier areas where we can apply this to this technology in concert with traditional tools, multichannel, seismic, gravity and magnetics to help, our clients get a better feel for the hydrocarbon prospectivity. You've got to have the seismic cause you've got to see what the subsurface looks like. But the, the multibeam which leads to seep targets, which leads ultimately to the geochemistry is what then affects the risk going forward into a basin.Duncan:01:08:20That's a good point, Dan. We don't see this as a technology that replaces seismic or gravity or magnetics or anything else, but it's another piece in the puzzle. And it's a very complimentary piece as well.Dan:01:08:31It is. And any areas you could argue that probably the best places to go look are where, your colleagues and other companies have said, oh, there's no oil there. Well, how do you know? Well, we don't think there's oil because we don't think there was a organic matter or we don't think that it was cooked enough. Well, you don't know until you go there and you find, so if you found one seep in that field area that had live oil and gas in it, you would know that that premise was incorrect. And now you have a competitive edge, you have knowledge that others don't and that can, that can affect your exploration, strategy in your portfolio. we haven't talked about cost. Multi beam is arguably one of the least expensive tools per square kilometer in the geophysical toolkit. Just because we don't need chase boats. We're not towing the streamer, we're going 10 knots. We're covering a couple of thousand square kilometers a day. So it's, it's, it's a tool that's useful in frontier exploration. It is complimentary to seismic, and it's a tool that, that you can use to guide where you want to spend money and how much money if you, if we survey a huge area and let's say half of it has no evidence of oil and gas and half of it has excellent hydrocarbon seeps, both oil and gas. I would argue that as a company you might want to spend less money on the first and more money on the second. You migh

Maundy Thursday April 18, 2019   Year (cycle): A, B & C   The Collect:  Almighty Father, whose dear Son, on the night before he suffered, instituted the Sacrament of his Body and Blood: Mercifully grant that we may receive it thankfully in remembrance of Jesus Christ our Lord, who in these holy mysteries gives us a pledge of eternal life; and who now lives and reigns with you and the Holy Spirit, one God, for ever and ever. Amen.   Old Testament:  Exodus 12:1-4, (5-10), 11-14 1 The Lord said to Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt: 2This month shall mark for you the beginning of months; it shall be the first month of the year for you. 3Tell the whole congregation of Israel that on the tenth of this month they are to take a lamb for each family, a lamb for each household. 4If a household is too small for a whole lamb, it shall join its closest neighbour in obtaining one; the lamb shall be divided in proportion to the number of people who eat of it. 5Your lamb shall be without blemish, a year-old male; you may take it from the sheep or from the goats. 6You shall keep it until the fourteenth day of this month; then the whole assembled congregation of Israel shall slaughter it at twilight.7They shall take some of the blood and put it on the two doorposts and the lintel of the houses in which they eat it. 8They shall eat the lamb that same night; they shall eat it roasted over the fire with unleavened bread and bitter herbs. 9Do not eat any of it raw or boiled in water, but roasted over the fire, with its head, legs, and inner organs. 10You shall let none of it remain until the morning; anything that remains until the morning you shall burn. 11This is how you shall eat it: your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand; and you shall eat it hurriedly. It is the passover of the Lord. 12For I will pass through the land of Egypt that night, and I will strike down every firstborn in the land of Egypt, both human beings and animals; on all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgements: I am the Lord. 13The blood shall be a sign for you on the houses where you live: when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and no plague shall destroy you when I strike the land of Egypt. 14This day shall be a day of remembrance for you. You shall celebrate it as a festival to the Lord; throughout your generations you shall observe it as a perpetual ordinance. Psalm:  Psalm 116:1, 10-17 1 I love the Lord, because he has heard the voice of my supplication, *        because he has inclined his ear to me whenever I called upon him. 10 How shall I repay the Lord *        for all the good things he has done for me? 11 I will lift up the cup of salvation *        and call upon the Name of the Lord. 12 I will fulfill my vows to the Lord *        in the presence of all his people. 13 Precious in the sight of the Lord *        is the death of his servants. 14 O Lord, I am your servant; *        I am your servant and the child of your handmaid;        you have freed me from my bonds. 15 I will offer you the sacrifice of thanksgiving *        and call upon the Name of the Lord. 16 I will fulfill my vows to the Lord *        in the presence of all his people, 17 In the courts of the Lord's house, *        in the midst of you, O Jerusalem.        Hallelujah! Epistle:  1 Corinthians 11:23-26 23 For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night when he was betrayed took a loaf of bread, 24and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, ‘This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.' 25In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.' 26For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. Gospel:  John 13:1-17, 31b-35 1 Now before the festival of the Passover, Jesus knew that his hour had come to depart from this world and go to the Father. Having loved his own who were in the world, he loved them to the end. 2The devil had already put it into the heart of Judas son of Simon Iscariot to betray him. And during supper 3Jesus, knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he had come from God and was going to God, 4got up from the table, took off his outer robe, and tied a towel around himself. 5Then he poured water into a basin and began to wash the disciples' feet and to wipe them with the towel that was tied around him. 6He came to Simon Peter, who said to him, ‘Lord, are you going to wash my feet?' 7Jesus answered, ‘You do not know now what I am doing, but later you will understand.' 8Peter said to him, ‘You will never wash my feet.' Jesus answered, ‘Unless I wash you, you have no share with me.' 9Simon Peter said to him, ‘Lord, not my feet only but also my hands and my head!' 10Jesus said to him, ‘One who has bathed does not need to wash, except for the feet, but is entirely clean. And you are clean, though not all of you.' 11For he knew who was to betray him; for this reason he said, ‘Not all of you are clean.' 12 After he had washed their feet, had put on his robe, and had returned to the table, he said to them, ‘Do you know what I have done to you? 13You call me Teacher and Lord—and you are right, for that is what I am.14So if I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. 15For I have set you an example, that you also should do as I have done to you. 16Very truly, I tell you, servantsare not greater than their master, nor are messengers greater than the one who sent them. 17If you know these things, you are blessed if you do them. 31 ‘Now the Son of Man has been glorified, and God has been glorified in him. 32If God has been glorified in him, God will also glorify him in himself and will glorify him at once.33Little children, I am with you only a little longer. You will look for me; and as I said to the Jews so now I say to you, “Where I am going, you cannot come.” 34I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. 35By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.'

2018/11/18 Hiro Hatano Categories: Video: https://osaka.mylifehouse.com/tv/message/joseph-the-man-of-god-who-built-up-his-family ヨセフ：神の男は家族を建て上げる！ マタイ2:13〜15 「彼らが帰って行ったのち、見よ、主の使が夢でヨセフに現れて言った、「立って、幼な子とその母を連れて、エジプトに逃げなさい。そして、あなたに知らせるまで、そこにとどまっていなさい。ヘロデが幼な子を捜し出して、殺そうとしている」。 14 そこで、ヨセフは立って、夜の間に幼な子とその母とを連れてエジプトへ行き、 15 ヘロデが死ぬまでそこにとどまっていた。それは、主が預言者によって「エジプトからわが子を呼び出した」と言われたことが、成就するためである。 ①神の声を聞いて動く ヨハネ10:27 「私の羊は私の声を聞き分けます。またわたしは彼らを知っています。そして彼らはわたしについてきます。」 ②家族でチャーチに仕える ヨシュア24:15「あなたがたの仕える者を、きょう、選びなさい。ただし、わたしとわたしの家とは共に主に仕えます」 Jospeh: The man of God who built up his family Matthew 2:13-15 (NIV) 13When they had gone, an angel of the Lord appeared to Joseph in a dream. “Get up,” he said, “take the child and his mother and escape to Egypt. Stay there until I tell you, for Herod is going to search for the child to kill him.”14So he got up, took the child and his mother during the night and left for Egypt, 15where he stayed until the death of Herod. And so was fulfilled what the Lord had said through the prophet: “Out of Egypt I called my son.” 1.Listen to God’s voice and move ‭‭John‬ ‭10:27‬ ‭ERV‬‬ 「My sheep listen to my voice. I know them, and they follow me.」 2.Serving Together in house of God Joshua 24:15 (ERV) 15You must choose for yourselves. But as for me and my family, we will serve the Lord.”

Ruth 3:10-18 AFFIRM - The Best Flavor. 10Then he said, “May you be blessed of the LORD, my daughter. You have shown your last kindness to be better than the first by not going after young men, whether poor or rich. 11“And now, my daughter, do not fear. I will do for you whatever you ask, for all my people in the city know that you are a woman of excellence. STOP - Know Your Place. (boundaries) 12“And now it is true I am a close relative; however, there is a relative closer than I. 13“Remain this night, and when morning comes, if he will redeem you, good; let him redeem you. But if he does not wish to redeem you, then I will redeem you, as the LORD lives. Lie down until morning.” HONOR - Words Protect Family. (Can’t Be Taken Back.) 14So she lay at his feet until morning and rose before one could recognize another; and he said, “Let it not be known that the woman came to the threshing floor.” GIVE - Go Beyond Expectations. 15Again he said, “Give me the cloak that is on you and hold it.” So she held it, and he measured six measures of barley and laid it on her. Then she went into the city. 16And when she came to her mother-in-law, she said, “How did it go, my daughter?” And she told her all that the man had done for her. 17And she said, “These six measures of barley he gave to me, for he said, ‘Do not go to your mother-in-law empty-handed.’” ACT - Face Unsettled Issues. 18Then she said, “Wait, my daughter, until you know how the matter turns out; for the man will not rest until he has settled it today.”

Episode 53   "Its All Megabytes Man!"02:46 Derick decides to torcher us with more acapella singing "For the first time in forever!"13 reviews for EntreProgrammers, up 2 reviews since the last.04:11John expresses his dislike with Apple's review process, and their denying the problems with the 2012 Macbook Pro screen. Own It and Fix It!7:14So what is going on in the world of the EntreProgrammers?Derick is swapped with preparing a talk and work on batch processes scheduling with new developed software. 9:30Healthy Diet? Eating One Meal A Day?John describes his gorging on a foot and a half long sub and cheesecake. As, Derick tries not to think of the “Brisket Nachos” from the previous night.   So in between work, family and kids, and paying “Uncle Sam” these programmers struggle with grazing in the green pastures. Grass Fed Programmers? 18:33 Express.js talk!Derick talks about his Drip Campaign for launching the Express.js screen cast series. 20:45This is going to be a valuable series, showing how to do things right with Express.js; routes, middleware, and cleaning up code.  Watch out, 4 pro tips by Derick!26:17 Java script pitch Free videos and working and are gaining followers! Praise to guess Jake from episode 51, his advice is help Derick’s YouTube videos. 29:54 John spoke with Dan Martell, who shares advice on how distinct his production and marketing strategies impact his product. https://clarity.fm/danmartell 32:42Derick “toots his horn” about his RabitMQ series vidoes. No, idea what he’s talking about? But, a bunch of cool programmer jargon. This guy needs to solve world hunger…42:20Sponsors, Telerik and Drip, Merci Beaucoup!43:30 Drips Been Kill’n It!Josh raves about the new features Drip offers. Lead Scoring rocks!   44:40Pruning!John trims his list 1500 and improves his opening rates. 46:27John shares the success with his course on How To Market Yourself, the success is attributed to his email course. 47:28 Blog Post on Life Hacker! Evergreen Traffic John submits the Joel Test for Programmers!   http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.htmlhttp://simpleprogrammer.com/2015/02/16/joel-test-programmers-simple-programmer-test/55:18Best Selling author Ryan Holiday John get advice for Ryan, possible re-launch of Soft Skills.  Also, having a huge mailing list +8,000 could help with acquiring guess post.  Again, focus on “Leverage.”1:00:06John is going to make an appearance on McMethod podcast- http://www.themcmethod.com/facebook-marketing-master-derek/1:04:30John did an interview with Paul Mooney, who did a show on- http://www.dotnetrocks.comJohn mentions he has growth of 30%, currently has 3100 subscribers on YouTube. He can seem drop some things due to the exciting growth of projects. 1:09:00  Josh Takes the Floor with Advertisement CampaignsJosh is updating his Google AdWords site, cleaning out the cobwebs.  He is gearing up to do a webinar with 200 signups, next week. Johns suggest that Josh ways to scale up, his advertisements and increase the stream, using Reddit. 1:27:10 A Thugz Life!Josh is apart of a copyright project for dog performance enhancement. This is a much see section a josh explains is challenge.   Sublime TextJosh talks about his projects with Sublime Text. http://www.sublimetext.com1:35:54 Millionaire Fastlane by MJ DeMarcoJohn mentions he is reading Millionaire Fastlane. He expresses his thoughts on the takeaway of the book. “Become the franchise owner” Good reads!1:42:45John reaches Pat Flynn’s executive assistant. A possible future interview, maybe?1:45:09Thought for the DayAs John searches for deep meaning in life, he suggests signing off with a thought for the day. Derick steals John’s  “It’s about the process, not perfection.”

March 30, 2014 Minister Favor Mitchell We Are What We Eat Genesis 3:1-19 1Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?” 2The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ” 4“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.” 6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves. 8Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the Lord God as he was walking in the garden in the cool of the day, and they hid from the Lord God among the trees of the garden. 9But the Lord God called to the man, “Where are you?” 10He answered, “I heard you in the garden, and I was afraid because I was naked; so I hid.” 11And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?” 12The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.” 13Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.” 14So the Lord God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life. 15And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel.” 16To the woman he said, “I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you.” 17To Adam he said, “Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, ‘You must not eat from it,’ “Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. 18It will produce thorns and thistles for you, and you will eat the plants of the field. 19By the sweat of your brow you will eat your food until you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return.”

Pastor Zenzile Legend March 16, 2014 Daniel 1 1In the third year of the reign of Jehoiakim king of Judah, Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon came to Jerusalem and besieged it. 2And the Lord delivered Jehoiakim king of Judah into his hand, along with some of the articles from the temple of God. These he carried off to the temple of his god in Babylonia and put in the treasure house of his god. 3Then the king ordered Ashpenaz, chief of his court officials, to bring into the king’s service some of the Israelites from the royal family and the nobility— 4young men without any physical defect, handsome, showing aptitude for every kind of learning, well informed, quick to understand, and qualified to serve in the king’s palace. He was to teach them the language and literature of the Babylonians. 5The king assigned them a daily amount of food and wine from the king’s table. They were to be trained for three years, and after that they were to enter the king’s service. 6Among those who were chosen were some from Judah: Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah. 7The chief official gave them new names: to Daniel, the name Belteshazzar; to Hananiah, Shadrach; to Mishael, Meshach; and to Azariah, Abednego. 8But Daniel resolved not to defile himself with the royal food and wine, and he asked the chief official for permission not to defile himself this way. 9Now God had caused the official to show favor and compassion to Daniel, 10but the official told Daniel, “I am afraid of my lord the king, who has assigned your food and drink. Why should he see you looking worse than the other young men your age? The king would then have my head because of you.” 11Daniel then said to the guard whom the chief official had appointed over Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah, 12“Please test your servants for ten days: Give us nothing but vegetables to eat and water to drink. 13Then compare our appearance with that of the young men who eat the royal food, and treat your servants in accordance with what you see.” 14So he agreed to this and tested them for ten days. 15At the end of the ten days they looked healthier and better nourished than any of the young men who ate the royal food. 16So the guard took away their choice food and the wine they were to drink and gave them vegetables instead. 17To these four young men God gave knowledge and understanding of all kinds of literature and learning. And Daniel could understand visions and dreams of all kinds. 18At the end of the time set by the king to bring them into his service, the chief official presented them to Nebuchadnezzar. 19The king talked with them, and he found none equal to Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael and Azariah; so they entered the king’s service. 20In every matter of wisdom and understanding about which the king questioned them, he found them ten times better than all the magicians and enchanters in his whole kingdom. 21And Daniel remained there until the first year of King Cyrus.

Ephesians 1: 13-14So many products have a money-back guarantee on them now, but it seems like there is always small print, always exceptions, and always limits. In this series, we look at some of God's promises for our lives and how He has guaranteed to always fulfill them.1. Because it's a promise of salvation (1: 13a)John 5: 24John 3: 16, 36; 4: 14; 6: 471 John 2: 251 Corinthians 1: 30-311 John 5: 11, 132. Because the Holy Spirit is our Seal (1: 13b-14)1 Corinthians 3: 16; 6: 19; Romans 8: 9Mathew 27: 66Esther 3: 10-12John 10: 27-29